# Monster Performance PC required. Any suggestions?



## giles (May 6, 2002)

The time has come again for an upgrade. Although my Pentium 4 2Ghz, 1024 Mb memory, and 128mb graphics card have served me well, I feel it is time for a Pentium 4 3.6Ghz system, 256mb card etc.

Doom3 runs well on my current PC although the best I can run it at is on the default settings LOW and the resolution at 1024 x 768.

Same sort of thing with with Far Cry.

Half-Life 2 is round the corner!

Alienware Area 51 looks excellent or there is the Dell XPS systems.

Anyone got any suggestions as to the best system out there? Primarily for gaming.


----------



## jimfew (Mar 5, 2004)

Hi Giles,

I have an Alienware Area 51 portable and a personal built PC (updated every six months) with very up to date fast hardware from (mainly) Dabs or Scan.

Can recommend both wholeheartedly. Games are suberb on both but the driver card on the PC with the Illyama screen is unbelievable.

If you are interested in the spec of the PC, I'll let you have it. Its very easy to build your own and you will get the best system which is easily upgrageable. If you get into any trouble (if you want to do this) I'll help you and I know others on the forum are experienced as well.

Jim.


----------



## giles (May 6, 2002)

Thanks Jim, sounds interesting.

I have a 22" Iiyama flat panel screen which is unbelievable. It deserves the best PC out there to really show it off.

Tempted by the Alienware, but speccing it on the website says the delivery estimate would be 11th January 2005..........


----------



## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

Alienware can't currently source the top end gfx cards they are advertising which is why they can't deliver.

They were advertising a delay on the NVIDIA cards but not the Radeon, but I know they can't get the Radeon either and are shipping with lesser spec'd cards.


----------



## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

Check out this site - Bible url for techies!

www.tomshardware.com/


----------



## jimfew (Mar 5, 2004)

giles said:


> Thanks Jim, sounds interesting.
> 
> I have a 22" Iiyama flat panel screen which is unbelievable. It deserves the best PC out there to really show it off.
> 
> Tempted by the Alienware, but speccing it on the website says the delivery estimate would be 11th January 2005..........


Scavenger is right about the delay to the cards and you will need these to get the best from Doom. I think you can get them quickly from Scan but they are not cheap.

If you have the Iiyama, I would keep it (as it still rates excellent in my book) and build a PC around it. It really is easy.

You will need:-

Motherboard (Abit Alderwood is my favourite as it takes the cheaper 775 3.6Ghz processor but IC7 Max3 is good) with P4 chip and memory (the best memory now is very very good; I would go for Kingston or Crucial). I would go for one that supports latent technology such as serial and parrallel ports so that you can still use old printers etc. USB2 is essential. Serial ATA is essential for gamers. PCI express and DDR2 support is also good for gamers.
Chip fan, go for the best.
Tower case, I like the aluminium polished ones, ATX type.
Power supply, don't skimp on this but will need a wisper quiet fan (my big mistake!)
Disk drive, go for two and make it serial ATA. Big is beautiful but you could make one very big and one very fast access but smaller.
Combined DVD recorder plus CD. I have two because I like to "copy" stuff!
Floppy drive, strange but true, I still use it occassionally.
Display driver. Big issue here is 8X but I have found that fast memory, and as much as you can get, is the best option for gamers.
Network card (you can use the network facility on the motherboard but I like to be able to set seperate IP's on mine so I've chosen 3Com; not expensive). I have also added a buffalo wireless router to my machine and a Zyxel broadband router for fast internet access.

I assume your display has digital direct input connections. If so, excellent, go for that on your driver card and use it.

Hope this helps.

If you do decide to go for it, you won't regret it. It took me 3 hours to assemble and it worked first time (although I did have to spend a couple of days setting up the drivers for optimum performance).

I can now upgrade easily (including the Eaprom systems). I can also overspeed my system which is great for gamers who want to "win". Not much different to upgrading and modding your TT!

Don't forget some good software as well.

Jim.


----------



## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Alienware - Hell NO!!!!

Overpriced - not as good as they say...!!!

You really need to think on what u want the PC for -

Answer me these qs -

What is your budgest
How much Storage space - HD - do u wish
What do you use the PC for
Do you want cutting edge technology - which is still not fully supported or the fastest you can get ATM.


----------



## jimfew (Mar 5, 2004)

saint said:


> Alienware - Hell NO!!!!
> 
> Overpriced - not as good as they say...!!!


Hi Saint,

I've had Alienware for a year or so now in various guises. I like the portables most and would not agree that they are overpriced or poor at delivery. They do get hot though!

Might agree with you on the PC's and have gone away from them myself towards self build, but then I don't constrain myself with a budget!.

Jim.


----------



## sonicmonkey (Mar 20, 2004)

saint said:


> Alienware - Hell NO!!!!
> 
> Overpriced - not as good as they say...!!!
> 
> ...


I have to agree with Saint on this one. Alienware are too overpriced given the competition in the marketplace (personally I think they look "Max Powered").

If it were my money I would shortlist an AMD 64 bit (the new FX53 processor) Mesh Computer which has storming performance for around Â£300-Â£400 less than an Alienware, its a tried and tested gaming machine a close friend of mine own's and he is very fussy about any lag in gaming performance. See http://www.meshcomputers.com/updated/matrix_a_range.htm and you can custom build to your spec.


----------



## giles (May 6, 2002)

saint said:


> Answer me these qs -
> 
> What is your budgest
> How much Storage space - HD - do u wish
> ...


Budget - no limit really. But I suppose no need to go over Â£2,500 !
Storage. 250 gb or so would be enough.
PC use - gaming, internet, email, digital photo management, some work! (word, excel etc)
Want cutting edge tech!

Thanks for all the comments guys. Very interesting.

A few comments in response to various posts:
I want to stay with Intel
Iiyama has digital connections
Am keeping the Iiyama screen!
Will keep current PC as a second PC
Would only consider self-build with help from someone re all components and construction!
I know Alienware are expensive, but I thought they were the best, no?
I have always had Dell systems and upgraded the memory and graphics cards myself from time to time.

Thanks again - the more comments the better.

Cheers.


----------



## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Ok - One question I forgot to ask - PC case size and noise levels is it a factor at all?

Re other bits -

250 GB Western Digial SATA Hard Drive or 2x 160 GB WD SATA in Raid

Intel Next Gen Processors - 3.5 Ghz and above coupled with an Abit 775 Motherboard

DVD Writer - Card Reader - ATI X800 Grphx - 1GB or 2 GB DDR2 Mem - Creative Audigy Soundcard - Wireless Keyboard and Mouse

If you need help looking for components and even building yourself - it's really easy - I am willing to help you.


----------



## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

Wait a bit for motherboards with multiple PCIX slots and get a couple of nVidia cards in SLI configuration


----------



## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

KevinST said:


> Wait a bit for motherboards with multiple PCIX slots and get a couple of nVidia cards in SLI configuration


Ah the good old days of SLI - or even just the Diamond Orchid Card


----------



## QuackingPlums (Mar 10, 2004)

giles said:


> Doom3 runs well on my current PC although the best I can run it at is on the default settings LOW and the resolution at 1024 x 768.


If you want this beastie to run in "ultra" you're gonna need a 512mb 3D card... though personally I don't think this particular game is worth the bother (or expenditure)...


----------



## giles (May 6, 2002)

QuackingPlums said:


> giles said:
> 
> 
> > Doom3 runs well on my current PC although the best I can run it at is on the default settings LOW and the resolution at 1024 x 768.
> ...


Even on LOW, it looks very good.

To be honest I am really enjoying playing it (on veteran). It is making me feel very jumpy!

512mb 3d cards don't exist yet do they?


----------



## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

512MB card allow for more decompressed textures to be stored. This allows for slightly faster performance but not hugely.

128 - 256 - 512 - most do the same.


----------



## jimfew (Mar 5, 2004)

saint said:


> 512MB card allow for more decompressed textures to be stored. This allows for slightly faster performance but not hugely.
> 
> 128 - 256 - 512 - most do the same.


Hi Saint,

I need the additional memory (and fast types) because I play EVE. If you want a game to test your graphics then this is the one.

www.eve-online.com

Usually 5000 or more play it at any one time. Saint, give it a go and let me know what you think, I'd be interested in your opinion.

For me, its the best on-line game I have ever played and very very addictive. Trouble is it needs ever better PC's and I have got into uprating many times and over clocking. I'm not yet into liquid nitrogen cooling but its only a matter of time.

Giles, I am sure we would all be happy to help you set up your own PC and recommend what to buy (even if we disagree sometimes). Â£2,500 will get you a really good, up to the minute machine.

If you want a ready made gamers PC, I quite like the Dell offerings as they are well integrated. I still believe that Alienware are OK but, as said before, they cannot get you the best at the moment.

Jim.


----------



## giles (May 6, 2002)

I specced up a Dell XPS system, but you cannot select the 256mb card with it, even though it is there under "more info".

I emailed Dell, but with no response as yet.

I wouldn't mind constructing my own, but as I implied earlier I would need a careful walk through of buying the parts and assembly.


----------



## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

jimfew said:


> saint said:
> 
> 
> > 512MB card allow for more decompressed textures to be stored. This allows for slightly faster performance but not hugely.
> ...


Eve - played it - was part of the beta program.

Anyway - Â£2,5k is more than enough for a good pc - infact Â£1.5k is more than enough.

To sum up - forget Alienware - you are paying for for the name rather than performance esp since their performance lies purely on tweaking the latest stuff and then charging u for it.

I'll list a whole PC for u later giving prices etc - will divide list in two - 1 performance standard size pc - 2nd a performance mini pc.


----------



## jimfew (Mar 5, 2004)

giles said:


> I specced up a Dell XPS system, but you cannot select the 256mb card with it, even though it is there under "more info".
> 
> I emailed Dell, but with no response as yet.
> 
> I wouldn't mind constructing my own, but as I implied earlier I would need a careful walk through of buying the parts and assembly.


Hi Giles,

I am sure we could walk you through it, especially as Saint has offered to spec the whole system.

However, if you go with Dell, I have found their products to be good as well. My Companies use Dell almost exclusivly and find them very supportive and (generally) their products up to spec and relaible. You just pay a bit more for them to do the work and upgrading becomes a bit more tricky.

Jim.


----------



## CapTT (Mar 2, 2003)

Have a look here :

http://www.demonite.com/

the dual processor 3.6 Ghz intel zeon is above budget at Â£3260 but the
3.2 Ghz with 500Gb serial ATA HD , 1024 Gb RAM and nVidia Quadro FX dual DVI graphics and everything else you would expect is only Â£2583.

Personally I like the look of the PCI express 560 (or 570?) a snip at Â£2113.83p and it has all the SHIT on it !!!. a fine spec. puter for now.


----------



## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

CapTT said:


> Have a look here :
> 
> http://www.demonite.com/
> 
> ...


Very nice if you want to do 3d intensive CAD and Graphic Design

The Quadro Series - FX 5xx and 1xxx are entry and midrange WORKSTATION products - also would be prolly pretty crap at games due to the Direct X support .

You gotta try to keep things real - no need to go loony toons and just buy the most expensive pc going cos it sounds cool :?

As I have already said I will post details and prices soon.


----------



## tj (May 7, 2002)

Xworks Interactive do specialist machines for the guys who develop games so the spec is v high - xworksinteractive.com


----------



## giles (May 6, 2002)

Thanks CapTT!

Taking out the monitor and reducing the hard drive from 800gb to 25gb but increasing other spec results in a very good price of Â£ 1890.58 INC VAT for the Demonite system below. Looks very good. Any comments?

Xeno Midi Enclosure 
420W Power Supply
Pentium 4 3.6Ghz 560 Processor +HT 
Motherboard : Asus P5AD2 Deluxe PCI Express
Memory : 1024MB DDR2 PC4200
Microsoft XP Home 
250 Gigabtye Serial ATA HDD 
16x DVD-ROM Drive & 1.44FDD
Sony DVD Writer(8x+/-) 
GeForce 6800GT 256MB PCI Express 
Sound Card : Soundblaster Audigy Platinum Pro ZS 
10/100/1000 Ethernet Adapter 
Unified v92 56k Voice/Fax/Modem 
Microsoft Keyboard 
Microsoft Mouse 
Office Software : Office Software Included 
Warranty : 3 Years On-site + 2 Yrs RTB Labour warranty


----------



## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

giles said:


> Thanks CapTT!
> 
> Taking out the monitor and reducing the hard drive from 800gb to 25gb but increasing other spec results in a very good price of Â£ 1890.58 INC VAT for the Demonite system below. Looks very good. Any comments?
> 
> ...


Gigabyte HD - no

Win XP Home - no

GF PCI EX - prolly no

What is the point in having a sooped up Mother board if u ain't gonna use its potential??!!

Dual 120gb Western Digital Hard Drives - SATA 150 in Raid - at least

Still say ATI outperform and look much better than the current nVidia cards

2 GB DDR2 Ram - gotta make use of it - 1GB is standard

Sony DVD-RW - hrm - 8+- got one already - why not go for 16x with dual layer and have extra DVD-Rom or DVD-RW too

Creative Card - yup its a must

Cooling - water or conventional - I prefer water

Case - mini or tower

Ethernet is already on board

And again Â£1900 :?


----------



## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Nice wee Abit Digi Dice - granted not a PCI Express mobo - but - couple with X800 Ati Card - 2 GB Ram - SB Audigy - 2x WD SATA drives - DVD-RW - Logitech Di Nove B/Tooth Keyboard - P4 3.4 - Card Reader = Very good PC

Or










With Abit PCI EXP - Ati PCI EXP Grphx - P4 3.4 or 3.6 - 2 GB Ram - 2x SATA HD in Raid - Creative Sound - Di Novo Keyobard - 2x DVD-RW - Card Reader - Water Cooled


----------



## giles (May 6, 2002)

saint said:


> Nice wee Abit Digi Dice - granted not a PCI Express mobo - but - couple with X800 Ati Card - 2 GB Ram - SB Audigy - 2x WD SATA drives - DVD-RW - Logitech Di Nove B/Tooth Keyboard - P4 3.4 - Card Reader = Very good PC
> 
> Or
> 
> ...


OK - help me find or build please!!!!


----------



## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Ok - once I return from work I'll list exactly what is needed and suppliers. The building part s easy and fun.


----------



## hudson (May 18, 2003)

Once you've sorted Giles , can you help me please 

Read this thread with interest as I'm in exactly the same boat. I even bought a book on building your own PC and now i've got the vocab but I find myself going to DABS, Maxx PC etc and plumping for the most expensive components cos 'they have to be the best' don't they?

I'm the perfect example of 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing' to my wallet anyway.

One other question .... when playing online games, what is most responsible for lag. Is it my graphics card, lack of RAM or my broadband connection.


----------



## westty (Jan 3, 2004)

saint said:


> I want to stay with Intel


Then you'll be settling for second best from the start!


----------



## stevett (Jan 13, 2003)

Why not go for a 5.25Ghz P4??!

http://www12.tomshardware.com/images/th ... 1_5ghz.zip

All you need is a constant supply of liquid nitrogen! (Video is 24MB)

Steve


----------



## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

Firstly Saint you sound like you know your onions.

I have always built my own sytems that way they are completely upgradable, generic PC's are the best, Dell PC's are designed to pi$$ people off when they want to add/improve the machine...good marketing I guess?

secondly i would like your thoughts (Saint) on the new AMD chip 64 bit! and is it worth hanging back for the next generation of mainbords/graphics cards which are 64 compatable? :?


----------



## H (Jul 20, 2004)

Bloody Hell
this thread is like new language [smiley=rolleyes5.gif] [smiley=rolleyes5.gif] [smiley=rolleyes5.gif] [smiley=rolleyes5.gif]


----------



## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Ok - after a long wait, and for me an equally long week  , here is the spec for a new PC.

Coolermaster Wavemaster Case - Black or Silver
Abit AA8 Motherboard
2GB Corsair or Crucial DDR2 Ram
2x 120gb Western Digital SATA Drives
ATI X800 PE Graphics
Pioneer 16x Dual Layer DVD-RW
Pioneer DVD Rom or another DVD-RW
Logitech Di Novo Bluetooth Keyboard/Mouse
P4 560 CPU (3.6 Ghz)
Creative Audigy Soundcard
Creative 7.1 SPeakers


----------



## andy761 (Jul 27, 2003)

saint said:


> Ok - after a long wait, and for me an equally long week  , here is the spec for a new PC.
> 
> Coolermaster Wavemaster Case - Black or Silver
> Abit AA8 Motherboard
> ...


Where did you get it from and how much??? if you dont mind me asking?
Thanks
Andy


----------



## jimfew (Mar 5, 2004)

saint said:


> Ok - after a long wait, and for me an equally long week  , here is the spec for a new PC.
> 
> Coolermaster Wavemaster Case - Black or Silver
> Abit AA8 Motherboard
> ...


Saint,

Need a power supply to go with this, anything you recommend?
I also prefer the balanced DDR2 RAM, but a bit more expensive.
What chip fan would you recommend (or water cooling, which I don't personnally like because moving it is a pain).
I also like Abit mothers because they are very reliable.
Not sure about the ATI graphics as I use nVidia but I am sure there's little in performance terms.

Overall, I think this an excellent spec for Giles.

Jim.


----------



## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

jimfew said:


> saint said:
> 
> 
> > Ok - after a long wait, and for me an equally long week  , here is the spec for a new PC.
> ...


PSU - Enermax 450 to 500w

CPU Cooling - I prefer Water which is not a pain to move - and only a minor task to remove when upgrading cpu and gpu cos the kit is housed in the case - unless like me you have a Zalman Reserator1

ATI - used to be a nvida user from the early days of the TNT however ATI atm have the stretch on nvida with regards to quality etc.

Balanced DDR2?? I take it you are refering to EEC and Non-EEC Buffered and un-buffered?


----------



## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

saint said:


> Abit AA8 Motherboard
> ATI X800 PE Graphics
> Pioneer 16x Dual Layer DVD-RW
> Pioneer DVD Rom or another DVD-RW
> ...


I retract my previous reply. 

No mention of a 512mb graphics card to play doom to it's full potential either?


----------



## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

digimeisTTer said:


> saint said:
> 
> 
> > Abit AA8 Motherboard
> ...


Nope - no mention of 512 mb cards

No mention of AMD 64bit chips either and no dual chips


----------



## jimfew (Mar 5, 2004)

Hi Saint,

Don't like water cooled because every time I have physically moved one, a fault occurs. I think they are not too shock or vibration resistant. However, if you leave it in one place and only move it short distances carefully, I agree with you.

On the balanced DDR2 the balanced chips I was referring to are selected for similar characteristics. I buy Kingston usually, but Crucial is also good. Not a big point this as it matters little to overall performance.

I wasn't criticising your choice, just making an observation.

Jim.


----------



## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

Saint,

I've been reading this thread with interest as also fed up with current setup, (seems like you've acquired a few followers with this one!).

It was recently 'upgraded' with new motherboard but I am continuosly getting the blue screen of death. Have re-installed Windows, cleared all the rubbish, run cleanup programs and it's still happening!

I was led to believe the spec was now pretty good:

Processor
Model : AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2800+
Speed : 2.09GHz
Model Number : 2800 (estimated)
Performance Rating : PR3028 (estimated)
Type : Standard
L2 On-board Cache : 512kB ECC Synchronous Write-Back (16-way, 64 byte line size)

Mainboard
Bus(es) : ISA AGP PCI USB FireWire/1394 i2c/SMBus
MP Support : No
MP APIC : No
System BIOS : Phoenix Technologies, LTD 6.00 PG
Mainboard : nVidia-nForce
Total Memory : 511MB DDR-SDRAM

Chipset 1
Model : Nvidia Corp nForce2 AGP Controller
Front Side Bus Speed : 2x 167MHz (334MHz data rate)
Total Memory : 512MB DDR-SDRAM
Memory Bus Speed : 2x 200MHz (400MHz data rate)

Video System
Monitor/Panel : Default Monitor
Adapter : NVIDIA GeForce2 MX/MX 400
Imaging Device : Hewlett-Packard ScanJet 4300C

Physical Storage Devices
Removable Drive : Floppy disk drive
Hard Disk : Maxtor 4D060H3 (57.3GB)
CD-ROM/DVD : ATAPI DVD-ROM 16X (CD 40X Rd) (DVD 5X Rd)
CD-ROM/DVD : SONY DVD RW DRU-530A (CD 40X Rd, 40X Wr) (DVD 5X Rd, 5X Wr)

Logical Storage Devices
1.44MB 3.5" (A : N/A
Hard Disk (C : 28.6GB (13.4GB, 47% Free) (FAT32)
Hard Disk (D : 28.6GB (6.6GB, 23% Free) (NTFS)
CD-ROM/DVD (E : N/A
CD-ROM/DVD (F : N/A

Peripherals
Serial/Parallel Port(s) : 3 COM / 1 LPT
USB Controller/Hub : NEC PCI to USB Open Host Controller
USB Controller/Hub : NEC PCI to USB Open Host Controller
USB Controller/Hub : Standard OpenHCD USB Host Controller
USB Controller/Hub : Standard OpenHCD USB Host Controller
USB Controller/Hub : USB Root Hub
USB Controller/Hub : USB Root Hub
USB Controller/Hub : USB Root Hub
USB Controller/Hub : USB Root Hub
USB Controller/Hub : Generic USB Hub
USB Controller/Hub : Generic USB Hub
USB Controller/Hub : USB Composite Device
USB Controller/Hub : USB Printing Support
USB Controller/Hub : Generic USB Hub
FireWire/1394 Controller/Hub : VIA OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller
Keyboard : Easy Internet Keyboard
Keyboard : Logitech HID-Compliant Keyboard
Mouse : HID-compliant mouse
Mouse : HID-compliant mouse
Human Interface : HID-compliant consumer control device
Human Interface : HID-compliant consumer control device
Human Interface : HID-compliant device
Human Interface : USB Human Interface Device
Human Interface : USB Human Interface Device
Human Interface : Internet Keys USB

MultiMedia Device(s)
Device : MPU-401 Compatible MIDI Device
Device : Standard Game Port
Device : Sound Blaster 16 or AWE32 or compatible (WDM)

Communication Device(s)
Device : Best Data Data Fax Modem

Power Management
AC Line Status : On-Line

Operating System(s)
Windows System : Microsoft Windows XP/2002 Home (Win32 x86/IA32) 5.01.2600

Network Services
Adapter : Linksys LNE100TX Fast Ethernet Adapter(LNE100TX v4)

I don't use for games, as I've got about 10 consoles around the house, so just want a fast and reliable PC for tinkering, downloading and general useage without the crashes.

If you think this system should cope, is there a format program or site because it wouldn't let me do it when I tried.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

Should I just go: http://www.meshcomputers.com/updated/matrix_a64_3a.htm

Would be Â£2K with little additions.

:? ? :?


----------

