# Autocar's big hot hatch group test



## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

Has anobody seen the 14 car Autocar group test this week? That Renault must be a mighty car for them to rave so much about it.


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

Yep I only skim read it yesterday though. There was a thread earlier in the week where the Renault could be had for Â£15.5k or something.

Might see if I can blag a drive in one.


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## markh (May 6, 2002)

See here http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... hp?t=81473


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## stephengreen (May 6, 2002)

Wondermikie said:


> Yep I only skim read it yesterday though. There was a thread earlier in the week where the Renault could be had for Â£15.5k or something.
> 
> Might see if I can blag a drive in one.


This company seems well respected. A friend ordered one on monday of this week from them.

http://www.buymynewcar.co.uk/ViewItem.php?ItemID=86


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## ChinsVXR (Apr 14, 2006)

Ive gone for their second place car and upgraded from my TT to the S3 :lol:


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## NickP (May 6, 2002)

I was considering the Renault after the Evo group test, but I'm even more tempted now


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

stephengreen said:


> Wondermikie said:
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> ...


Yep I think it was your post earlier in the week. Makes the S3 look v. expensive indeed.


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## ChinsVXR (Apr 14, 2006)

Wondermikie said:


> stephengreen said:
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Well Ive just been through the mill since selling my TT and looked at all the hot hatches

The R26 does look good value, but I cant spend half my life at the dealership fixing problems. It also not going to be a great every day car, a little like an EVO. Its biggest issue, its that you would be embarrased to turn up anywhere in a car that looks like a dogs dinner.

I tried to get myself to buy one of the nice cheap boys out there.

The GTI - owned oned already and the GTI ED30 was only Â£3k cheaper than my S3. Just too dull.

The CTR - drove one - heap of crap

R32 - owned a MKIV and its got a crap engine and feels lardy.

Leon - Mrs Blair looks nicer

Focus - 2 mpg and a burbery

VXR - been there done it.

VRS - was my closest option. Almost bought one to drive for a few months before handing down to one of my employees.

In the end for me, the class of the Audi, the looks (ok it can look like an S Line), the tunability (300bhp here we come) and residuals attracted.

Just hope its as good as my TT was


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

Scoob ?


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

ChinsVXR said:


> Well Ive just been through the mill since selling my TT and looked at all the hot hatches
> 
> The R26 does look good value, but I cant spend half my life at the dealership fixing problems. It also not going to be a great every day car, a little like an EVO. Its biggest issue, its that you would be embarrased to turn up anywhere in a car that looks like a dogs dinner.
> 
> ...


I pretty much agree with all of that, I wasn't saying that the S3 isn't the best car, it is by a mile  It's just the price relative to the likes of the Renault is so high, even if it is a crappy French car that will likely tear itself to bits over it's life.

Did you consider a 3-door 130?


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## stephengreen (May 6, 2002)

ChinsVXR said:


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As i say in an earlier post these cars and choices come down to personal choice and circumstance. If i were to choose, money no problem, and it must have premium image and it were my only car i would choose the S3
If it were the above options, but money was an issue, then it would be the golf. If it was a cheap, fun secound car that i didnt want to worry about when it got used for shopping and football then it would, and is, the Focus. If it were the above, but was for me not the wife then it would be without doubt the renault. I think it would make an ideal Occasional use/track day car.


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

stephengreen said:


> As i say in an earlier post these cars and choices come down to personal choice and circumstance. If i were to choose, money no problem, and it must have premium image and it were my only car i would choose theS3
> If it was the above options, but money was an issue, then it would be the golf. If it was a cheap, fun secound car that i didnt want to worry about when it got used for shopping and football then it would, and is, the Focus. If it was the above, but was for me not the wife then it would be without doubt the renault. I think it would make an ideal Occasional use/track day car.


Yes agree totally, circumstances are an important consideration bearing in mind the huge difference in Â£Â£Â£'s between them.

How tempted are you by the Renault?


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## stephengreen (May 6, 2002)

Wondermikie said:


> stephengreen said:
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> > As i say in an earlier post these cars and choices come down to personal choice and circumstance. If i were to choose, money no problem, and it must have premium image and it were my only car i would choose theS3
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VERY in a word. So much so that i have been making enquiry's as to how much insurance would be on a third car bearing in mind there wouldnt be any bonus to transfer. It would have been nice if the wife would accept the R26 but she is having none of it. She see's it as a "mans" car that is poor on the quality's she needs such as rear seat space and the fact it has a narrow opening boot. After having the M3 i promised her she could have a car biased towards her needs this time so unless i go down the 3rd car route i'm snookered :?


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

stephengreen said:


> VERY in a word. So much so that i have been making enquiry's as to how much insurance would be on a third car bearing in mind there wouldnt be any bonus to transfer. It would have been nice if the wife would accept the R26 but she is having none of it. She see's it as a "mans" car that is poor on the quality's she needs such as rear seat space and the fact it has a narrow opening boot. After having the M3 i promised her she could have a car biased towards her needs this time so unless i go down the 3rd car route i'm snookered :?


Hmmmmnnnn - what does the wife drive now?


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## stephengreen (May 6, 2002)

Wondermikie said:


> stephengreen said:
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> > VERY in a word. So much so that i have been making enquiry's as to how much insurance would be on a third car bearing in mind there wouldnt be any bonus to transfer. It would have been nice if the wife would accept the R26 but she is having none of it. She see's it as a "mans" car that is poor on the quality's she needs such as rear seat space and the fact it has a narrow opening boot. After having the M3 i promised her she could have a car biased towards her needs this time so unless i go down the 3rd car route i'm snookered :?
> ...


We sold the M3 to finance a kitchen. In the interim she has an 06 C2 VTS 
She's hated it since the day it arrived! She wanted the focus last year but i put my foot down and got the beemer. Thats why she isnt going to budge twice! :roll:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Wondermikie said:


> stephengreen said:
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Yes, especially the interior. :wink:


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## stephengreen (May 6, 2002)

This link to Autocars short video of the test is worth a look

http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpape ... 261&Mode=B


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

ChinsVXR said:


> R32 - owned a MKIV and its got a crap engine and feels lardy.


Chins, the MKV is a completely different beast to the MKIV. A completely differnt chassis, different weight distribution and different power delivery.

To quote EVO who have one on long term test:

_"The VW is certainly less challenging to the eye but, to those in the know, the R32â€™s more conventional hot-hatch looks conceal something special."_

It's also EVO's fastest hatch around Bedford, so it can't be that bad! 

Horses for courses though and each mag rates them all differently.


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## damo (May 7, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> ChinsVXR said:
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The R32 didn't fare too well in the Autocar test coming 12th out of 14. It was only 7th fastest round the track, even beaten by the GTI (admittedly only marginally).


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

garyc said:


> Yes, especially the interior. :wink:


 :roll: :roll: The extra Â£10k has to buy you something doesn't it? :lol:


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

damo said:


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I may be wrong, but from what I read they used a version of the track that is aimed at lighter smaller FWD cars, hence why I didn't fare well. It wasn't able to use all it's power becasue there weren't any long straights or places it could pull away. They also discounted it on price, hence why it didn't make the final 6 to go head to head on the road where it would have easily shined IMO.

EVO use the 'West' circuit, which is a combination of straights and also tight turns, to test a cars *full* capabilities.


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

My only problem with the interior on the S3 is that it is too similar to the standard A3. If it just had some more leather and aluminium it would be much nicer.

I do have problems with the rest of the car, though...


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## damo (May 7, 2002)

kmpowell said:


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Not sure re the circuit differences used between evo and Autocar.

The ranking was achieved by adding together scores for lap time, max speed on lap, 0-100 & 70-0, desirability and handling, then divided by list price.

I'm sure if they thought the R32 had a chance on the road section they would have found a way of including it.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

damo said:


> kmpowell said:
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Now here's a funny thing, I have just watched the Autocar video and they claim they used the 'West' circuit, just like EVO. Strange then that the times posted were so different.

The Autocar test has a very weird set of results too - i'm not saying the R32 should have won it, but out of all the runners it's a very bizarre top 3 IMO.

:?


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## ChinsVXR (Apr 14, 2006)

kmpowell said:


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But if you are right, why did the other Haldex non fwd car do so well? The S3 was at the same disadvantage as the R32, but it didnt bother it.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

ChinsVXR said:


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God knows, but out of all the tests i've seen and read in every other magazine recently, I have never seen either the GTi or ST fall outside the top 3, and certainly not seen the 197 (which is a shadow of the former 182) get a placing.

Very odd if you ask me.


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## stephengreen (May 6, 2002)

I must say that i find it strange how the ST sets a poor wet time in EVO but beats the wet lap record in Autocar!
Just for interest below is EVO's times for some of the times posted. One car in particular seems to have pretty impressive in gear times. The link is being hosted by a Focus ST owners club member


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Wondermikie said:


> garyc said:
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It does indeed. Materials, design, panel and paint quality, longer component duty cycle, and better residuals to mention a few.

But you do get a lot more arse metal in the Megane tho. :wink:

...and I would not knock talent of Renault's road chassis engineering team.

If only they worked for Audi. :idea:


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## PhilJ (Sep 2, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> Now here's a funny thing, I have just watched the Autocar video and they claim they used the 'West' circuit, just like EVO. Strange then that the times posted were so different.
> 
> The Autocar test has a very weird set of results too - i'm not saying the R32 should have won it, but out of all the runners it's a very bizarre top 3 IMO.
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> :?


Hi Kev!

Autocar used a shortened version of the West Circuit (see page 4 of Autocar). I think it missed out "Pif-Paf", "Bank Complex" and "Beckham Esses" that normally form part of the West Circuit used by Evo. This explains the significantly quicker lap times in the Autocar test.

I think Palmersport are also making some general revisions to the circuit at the moment - and seem to do this every few years.

Cheers

Phil


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## PhilJ (Sep 2, 2002)

stephengreen said:


> I must say that i find it strange how the ST sets a poor wet time in EVO but beats the wet lap record in Autocar!


Same model of car, but different cars, tested on different days with different drivers.


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## PhilJ (Sep 2, 2002)

garyc said:


> It does indeed. Materials, design, panel and paint quality, longer component duty cycle, and better residuals to mention a few.
> 
> But you do get a lot more arse metal in the Megane tho. :wink:
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Still, if you can get an R26 for Â£15k, I cannot see an S3 costing less to run (including depreciation) over a 3 year period.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

PhilJ said:


> kmpowell said:
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> > Now here's a funny thing, I have just watched the Autocar video and they claim they used the 'West' circuit, just like EVO. Strange then that the times posted were so different.
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Hi Phil.

Funny that the last time we spoke was at Bedford, and here we are discussing it on here! 

Anyway, if the Autocar test missed out the three bottom bends of the west cirucit, then it's no wonder the times are different! IMO it make the test a bit worthless?!? Sure they will have to do "club" and "hanger hairpin", but the removal of the three main sections simply makes it a short tight circuit with no place for cars to stretch their legs fully e.g coming out of "Bank" along into "Esses", and more importantly through the gears at "PifPaf" and back on the throttle towards "Bank". EVO rate these bottom sections quite highly as it allows the car to be tested completely through all the gears.

Cheers
Kevin


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