# stage 1,2 and 3 tuning (225)



## 3TT3

This may have been covered before or "everybody knows that" but I didnt realise, or at least not fully until recently.
Like "its the turbo stupid" 
If everything is ok on your engine with standard parts, a stage 1 remap(n very good it is too  ) is gonna get you around 255-265 bhp.
Torque 260-270?
A stage 2 remap is the same thing but it also uses the standard turbo , however you have to add on parts such as down pipes Tip's , air filters/wakbox possibly injectors, fuel pump n so on and really all you are doing is pushing the limits of the standard K04 turbo and spending more than is needed .
and all for maybe another 10 bhp and 20 ft/lb of torque ?
So maybe get 275 bhp on a v good day ?

Many of these parts on their own are claimed to "unleash " another 5-7 bhp and may need to be mapped for individually,but there only seems to be 5-10 bhp in TOTAL to play with anyway between stage 1 and 2 cos of the turbo limitation and youre really only buying bits for your new big turbo? 

Im not sure , or maybe I have it wrong,but why isnt the recommendation to just go for a bigger turbo first if you arent happy with stage 1 , there isnt really a stage 2 is there?


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## TT Tom TT

Yep spot on, anything after stage 1 is severe dis-economies of scale. Stage 1 is as you rightly said 255-265bhp on a good day assuming all is well.

I wouldn't even say there is a stage 2 or 3. It's just basically how you want your stage 1 tweaked as you've quite rightly said, the tweak options being:

- Open air filter
- 80mm tip
- FMIC
- Large down pipe
- De-cat
- Large exhaust pipe-work

Depending which of these you have depends how much power you're going to get but even with all of them you would be lucky to see more than 285bhp. So essentially all of the above mods are a little bit of a waste unless you then bolt an appropriate manifold and turbo to the car so it can be made use of.


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## BrianB

Having read a lot of the threads here on this forum it comes across that if you plan on going down the big turbo route and the gains in bhp and torque they are capable of then serious consideration needs to be given to the strength of the internals.
The stage 1 / 2 seems to be away of optimising the capability of the OEM k04 through software tweaks and improved airflow from free flowing induction and exhaust components that will work with the existing internals.


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## Jay-225

3TT3 said:


> This may have been covered before or "everybody knows that" but I didnt realise, or at least not fully until recently.
> Like "its the turbo stupid"
> If everything is ok on your engine with standard parts, a stage 1 remap(n very good it is too  ) is gonna get you around 255-265 bhp.
> Torque 260-270?
> A stage 2 remap is the same thing but it also uses the standard turbo , however you have to add on parts such as down pipes Tip's , air filters/wakbox possibly injectors, fuel pump n so on and really all you are doing is pushing the limits of the standard K04 turbo and spending more than is needed .
> and all for maybe another 10 bhp and 20 ft/lb of torque ?
> So maybe get 275 bhp on a v good day ?
> 
> Many of these parts on their own are claimed to "unleash " another 5-7 bhp and may need to be mapped for individually,but there only seems to be 5-10 bhp in TOTAL to play with anyway between stage 1 and 2 cos of the turbo limitation and youre really only buying bits for your new big turbo?
> 
> Im not sure , or maybe I have it wrong,but why isnt the recommendation to just go for a bigger turbo first if you arent happy with stage 1 , there isnt really a stage 2 is there?


All depends on what you want from the car really , The way i look at it is maximize the gains you can safely get from the standard turbo before going bigger so all the breathing mods listed are essential to achieve that goal and would be no different with a bigger turbo ( they are actually more important on a bigger blower )... i am pretty much at this point now ( 290bhp ) and am adding wmi in a couple of months before deciding on what route to go with the turbo change ... I know what i want from the new turbo and that is a very strong midrange and topend as the standard unit tails off to much for my liking... will probably end up with the Badger5 Turbo and be happy with what ever that gives :lol:


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## infidel.uk

i started with a wak map and got 260, but now ive had a new hybrid fitted, pipeworx d/p and decat, im soon fitting a front mount and injectors, also have the badger 5 on the car with a wakbox mod, hope to see 300 brake from this no problem, i guess go from there !


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## thad1

I have been looking at this today as i think the turbo is knackered and the exhaust manifold has a hole in it lmao

I have been looking at T25 manifolds for the 1.8T and a T28 turbo, they quote the turbo as flowing enough for between 300 and 350hp, my question I guess is all things being equal how well would the standard stuff stand up if I wanted to run the turbo at 300/300 as I feel that's safe for the BAM rods or safe ish. Also i would have thought the turbo will make that power without having to run high boost, this should keep intake temps down as well, I had a KKK28 on my old 944 Turbo producing 320 hp at 16psi, thoughts anyone?


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## infidel.uk

thad1 said:


> I have been looking at this today as i think the turbo is knackered and the exhaust manifold has a hole in it lmao
> 
> I have been looking at T25 manifolds for the 1.8T and a T28 turbo, they quote the turbo as flowing enough for between 300 and 350hp, my question I guess is all things being equal how well would the standard stuff stand up if I wanted to run the turbo at 300/300 as I feel that's safe for the BAM rods or safe ish. Also i would have thought the turbo will make that power without having to run high boost, this should keep intake temps down as well, I had a KKK28 on my old 944 Turbo producing 320 hp at 16psi, thoughts anyone?


ive been told several times that the standard valves[ i hope you mean valves ] are good for 300 NO problem at all.

ill soon be able to give you an idea because the turbo i have is good for 360 with supporting mods, im only wanting 300 from it with the above spec, so after waks mapped it i will post some results and you can get a loose idea. :?


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## thad1

infidel.uk said:


> thad1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been looking at this today as i think the turbo is knackered and the exhaust manifold has a hole in it lmao
> 
> I have been looking at T25 manifolds for the 1.8T and a T28 turbo, they quote the turbo as flowing enough for between 300 and 350hp, my question I guess is all things being equal how well would the standard stuff stand up if I wanted to run the turbo at 300/300 as I feel that's safe for the BAM rods or safe ish. Also i would have thought the turbo will make that power without having to run high boost, this should keep intake temps down as well, I had a KKK28 on my old 944 Turbo producing 320 hp at 16psi, thoughts anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> ive been told several times that the standard valves[ i hope you mean valves ] are good for 300 NO problem at all.
> 
> ill soon be able to give you an idea because the turbo i have is good for 360 with supporting mods, im only wanting 300 from it with the above spec, so after waks mapped it i will post some results and you can get a loose idea. :?
Click to expand...

What turbo are you using mate?
I guess the manifold is the easy bit as I can get a cast one with a t25 flange easily enough, I guess it wont fit the downpipe though so is there an adapter plate that can be bought or is it a new downpipe?


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## infidel.uk

hi , im using a beach buggy turbo , hybrid k04 - 418t, have a look on the web site for more info 

http://r-techperformance.co.uk/vag/...-seat-skoda/1-8t-k04-k03-hybrid-turbo-tuning/

as far as the rest goes i wouldn't know i just went for k04 for less hassle.


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## TT Tom TT

infidel.uk said:


> ive been told several times that the standard valves[ i hope you mean valves ] are good for 300 NO problem at all.
> 
> ill soon be able to give you an idea because the turbo i have is good for 360 with supporting mods, im only wanting 300 from it with the above spec, so after waks mapped it i will post some results and you can get a loose idea. :?


No he said rods and he means rods (connecting rods). Where are you getting this information about valves from? Stock valve-train is good for any kind of power output but becomes less efficient and reliable approaching silly power (500's) where a Supertech valve-train would be better suited.


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## infidel.uk

looks like a blunder on my part then for misreading or just being a twat , lol

my bad :lol:


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## Gonzalo1495

Stage 2.5 = WI + Boost Controller + any stage 2 tune = hybrid like performance for far less


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## Mondo

... or WMI _and_ a hybrid. :wink:


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## 3TT3

I see what you guys are saying but, backtrack a little or look at it in another way.
Standard turbo wi standard bits(everything) is good for lets be optimistic and say 270 bhp yes?(stage one tune/remap)

Spend hundreds on non turbo bits and maybe pay to remap each time with each part ,whatever it is,youre still on the K04 limitation Call it stage 1+ if you like 
The proprietary "stage 2" seems to consist of ,buy bits n remap and maybe on a v good day youll get another 20 bhp over normal stage 1 on the standard turbo.

Whereas if you buy a "real turbo upgrade" you might be able to get 290 right away with a remap rather than prat around with other stuff.
Ok lets say you dont get 290 bhp straight away with your upgraded mark x turbo(good for 300-350 bhp), on standard bits n pieces.
Then you go TIP or downpipe or uprated injectors / fuel pump,fmic and all the goodies , or one at a time: but in this case you shouldnt be playing around with a bhp here or there for each 100 quid component upgrade.

I cant see the logic of applying bits which just push the standard turbo to its choking point, unless theyre free.

Sounds stoopid I know, coming from somebody who has already spent on a TIP(which needed correction) and a dw pump, which may not be all that great compared to an inline pump.
An airbox mod ..well thas ok ,you can allways block it off again and it costs nothing.

Me , my standard turbo seems to be delivering its output still and 29 psi(unfortunately at a rev range where I dont need it :lol: ,toned down with mbc)
Will it deliver that at 6000 rpm.. not a chance, or why would there be a need to change it ) so essentially Im gonna shut down on more tuning(for tonight :lol: ),unless I go for a bigger/hybrid,twin turbo or some turbo upgrade.


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## Street Fighter

Dose a stage 1 make much difference to a QS 240?


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## Delta4

Street Fighter said:


> Dose a stage 1 make much difference to a QS 240?


An extra 20 bhp minimum is easily available, then your on a slippery slope if the more power bug gets hold of you :lol:


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