# Facelift 997S - Porsche Darkside.....



## TTommy (Apr 28, 2004)

Hi all,

Well it looks like I am converting to the Porsche darkside to as a lot of TT owners seem to drift towards.....

I eventually placed my deposit down with a dealer who was accepting a refundable deposit until specification for a manual facelift C2S coupe.

We went out in a test drive in a C2 and I was gobsmacked - it felt so much better than the Boxster S we had for 4 hours a few weeks back. Cant wait to try the S (and the extra 30bhp for the new facelift S).

We went through options but they were the ones currently available for the current 997, but as soon as the dealer gets the new options we will go through them again...

I am finding it very difficult to decide on colour - GT Silver / Meteor Grey / Atlas Grey - I feel like there are too many silver cars on the road, but the GT silver looks a little bit darker and quite classy.... Atlas looks great - but I think it would be a pain to keep clean....

I like the look of the turbo wheels, but getting drawn towards the sportdesign wheels.... was told the Sports exhaust will not be available straight away so will have to get that retrofitted!!!!!! (it sounds awesome!)

Anyone else placed deposits for the new facelift 997?

Really excited - this is the first car I have specced up myself!

TTommy...


----------



## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Meteor Grey is lovely. Doesn't Atlas have a hint of blue about it?


----------



## Widget (May 7, 2002)

I think jam's is meteor grey.


----------



## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Oh yeah, speccing from new is lovely. I did it with my Cayman S, however, it does make you realise how much of a rip off Porsche are. I paid about Â£800 for xenons which are even standard on a lot of sub Â£20k cars.

I also had to pay for an airbag deactivation switch (about Â£350). The excuse they gave is that 'it's a sports car sir, we don't expect many people to carry a child in them'. In which case, why are you then charging me for sports seats in my sports car?

I was fairly conservative with options (probably about Â£5k worth). You really can go mad with them, can't you?


----------



## jbell (May 15, 2006)

Widget said:


> I was fairly conservative with options (probably about Â£5k worth). You really can go mad with them, can't you?


The average is Â£7k, it's no wonder Porsche are so profitable


----------



## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

jbell said:


> Widget said:
> 
> 
> > I was fairly conservative with options (probably about Â£5k worth). You really can go mad with them, can't you?
> ...


Â£6.5K options on the M. :roll:


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jbell said:


> Widget said:
> 
> 
> > I was fairly conservative with options (probably about Â£5k worth). You really can go mad with them, can't you?
> ...


Average options spend on an R8 is Â£15K, so I am told. It is easy to get carried away indeed. Still come resale time...


----------



## TTommy (Apr 28, 2004)

Yeah it is a complete rip off when you are paying that much for a car - some of the things should be standard and you shouldnt be charged so much for "special" colours!!!!

I am definately leaning towards meteor as the middle option - i would love to be brave with the interior colour but I think I may have to play safe and go for black.......

Definately going to get the Sports Chrono  I love how the car tightens up and the throttle becomes more responsive when u flick the switch. Wish it didnt have that stupid stopwatch on the dash though.....

Everytime I go to the configurator my options change - I guess its depending on my mood and how frugal I am feeling 

I have been told that I should to be looking to only add 5 to 6k at most as you are heading into the next cars category........

Pics of the meteor grey car would be great if you can 

TTommy......


----------



## Widget (May 7, 2002)

I don't understand Sports Chrono. I never specced it on the Cayman S.

It doesn't make the car quicker/torquier or add more ponies so why would you want it?


----------



## TTommy (Apr 28, 2004)

hi widget......

I guess you havent tried it? Worth trying it 

It doesnt add any more bhp - it gives the car a more aggresive map, makes the throttle more responsive (great!), if uve got psm it stiffens the suspension, does something about the redline too (not sure)

TTommy.....


----------



## TTwiggy (Jul 20, 2004)

no offence ot the OP, but it seams you're playing very safe with the car in terms of colour (sorry, but silver with black interior isn't my idea of 'wow'). Given that this car is going to cost you a pretty penny, and that as you're buying new you can have any colour you want, do you not have the urge to say 'go on then, speed yellow with matching leather!' - I know I would! :lol:


----------



## Widget (May 7, 2002)

TTommy said:


> hi widget......
> 
> I guess you havent tried it? Worth trying it
> 
> ...


I've driven a 997 C2S with and without and a 997 C4S with and without. Indeed, it does make the red line a little more forgiving, but I couldn't really tell the difference on the road.

Have you driven with and without back to back? Minimal difference if you ask me. Besides, if it was vast difference/improvement then it'd be a smidge more than Â£500 don't you think?

PASM stiffens the suspension (which is an Â£800 option on its own).

Please don't be swayed by el Twiggo and go for a yellow one, will you?


----------



## TTommy (Apr 28, 2004)

Widget said:


> TTommy said:
> 
> 
> > hi widget......
> ...


I must admit the yellow does look nice on the 911 but its not for me 

PASM is standard i think on the C2S and is worth having on the Boxster. Although sports mode is a bit harsh and bumpy but good if u are going to push the car harder.....

I did try the Sports chrono in a Boxster S only back to back as I was in the car with it for around 40minutes before realising it was there and for the last 15mins the car felt much more responsive... its still an option im not sure about.......

Has anyone had experience of the -20mm lower option - the new one still has PASM I have heard so will be slightly different.... What is slip differential? Is the car too low? Whats the adv and disadvantages to this?

Thanks


----------



## jam (May 8, 2002)

Yep, mine is meteor grey. Tends to change colour according to the light. Sometimes looks moody grey and then when the sun hits it there's a hint of gold in there. I am still over the moon with my colour choice!

Any of the three colours you mentioned are very nice though 

Welcome to the fold! 8)

Pics:























































And another:


----------



## TTommy (Apr 28, 2004)

wow that looks fantastic jam.......... is it hard to keep clean?

I was thinking of going for the sportdesign wheels, are those the carrera classics?


----------



## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Grey cars always look clean.


----------



## PIPTT (May 6, 2002)

guards red, the original porsche colour, looks awesome with chrome/basalt black wheels, black with red stitched leather

not a shiny example but ...










and a shiny one with gt3 areo kit;










basalt black with turbo wheels is also very nice but hard to keep clean

other than that the atlas or meteor greys are a good choice

how about a mix on the interior option black/grey if going grey


----------



## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Leg said:


> jbell said:
> 
> 
> > Widget said:
> ...


Â£7k on the Mini


----------



## jam (May 8, 2002)

TTommy said:


> wow that looks fantastic jam.......... is it hard to keep clean?
> 
> I was thinking of going for the sportdesign wheels, are those the carrera classics?


Thanks!

Not difficult at all to keep clean mate - my 996 before was black and that was a nightmare but this one is simple. The only thing that really ever look dirty are the wheels

Yep, they're Carrera Classics - I love the way you can see the discs and red calipers through the wide spokes. Also, most of the Carrera S's I see seem to have the standard Carrera S wheels or occasionally sport designs - I wanted something a bit different and have always been a sucker for some nice simple 5 spokes

Cheers


----------



## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Coloured crests would of looked good.


----------



## TTommy (Apr 28, 2004)

I have heard the facelift is getting new wheels so I wonder what they will look like - hopefully will find out before I have to properly spec it up...

Two guys I know from another forum have had to spec their cars up from sheets of A4 (which they couldnt remove from dealer) with no pics. It was quite disappointing for them, but atleast there cars are going to be the first built.

Jam did you go for the sports suspension with slip diff?


----------



## jam (May 8, 2002)

Hi mate,

Nope I didn't go for LSD and the sports suspension. Although I like the look of the lower car the roads near me are notoriously shit. The PASM sport setting suits me just fine for spirited driving - plus I don't track the car ever.

Will be interested to see the new wheel options when they're announced. Have you specced PDK (basically DSG)? I hear that will be introduced on the 997 facelift. I'd snap that up given the chance!

When it comes to car change time I'll be umming and arring between a new C4S cab or a used 997 TT. Prob not be at least for another year though.

Widget: for some reason I prefer the black outline coloured crests to the coloured ones which I had on my 996. Unsure why but I just do! 

Cheers

James


----------



## PIPTT (May 6, 2002)

i love porsches and have been looking around a few, especially the TT but next year how about the gt-r :?:

at less than Â£60k it is about half the price of a new 997TT, either way they are both awesome machines 8)

http://www.gtrnissan.com/index.html?deeplink=features|configurator


----------



## TTommy (Apr 28, 2004)

I have heard of the new gearsystem but dont really wanna be an early adopter as it may not be any good (it probably will be though!) - and I quite enjoy my manual stick.......

Thats one thing that worries me about lowering it - its quite low anyway and another 10mm might make it hit things.

Spoke with dealer today and their manager has some new info on the car and will be discussing it tomorrow..... hopefully find out some more info......


----------



## tdk (Jul 22, 2003)

Unless you're going to be doing a lot of track work then I wouldn't recommend you getting the sport suspension as it's a very hard ride.

I've got the normal suspension on mine and it's quite a bit harder than the PASM, sport suspension is harder still. Think of PASM in normal mode being 1-5 and in sports mode 6-10. Normal suspension is about 7 and sports suspension is about 9.

I'm also considering a change for a facelifted C4S coupe and will be going for PASM this time around, which is lowered a further 1cm over the current cars - so matching the sports suspension ride height, which is just right! 

I've decided that I like 4wd after spending a few days this week blasting around in this...










Simon.


----------



## tdk (Jul 22, 2003)

TTommy said:


> What is slip differential? Is the car too low? Whats the adv and disadvantages to this?


A limited slip differential (LSD) allows the two rear driving wheels to essentially spin independently. For example, if you're going around a corner very fast in a car without a LSD the outside wheel will want to go faster than the inside wheel, but being fixed together you'll find that the inside wheel will spin and you'll waste power. In a car with a LSD both wheels will spin at different speeds and you'll put the power down on the road in the most efficient way.

More info here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_slip_differential

Given the option I'd always go for a LSD - something that we'll be able to get on the facelifted 911! 

Simon.


----------



## PIPTT (May 6, 2002)

tdk, much skuttle on it? is it the c4s?

i've read differing reports on the 911 cabs, some say skuttle and creaky even on the 997 TT others say stiff and hardly any??

Thanks


----------



## TTommy (Apr 28, 2004)

hi tdk....... what colour is that car in your pic? Meteor?

I have heard the new facelift has the lsd with the sports suspension option which also includes PASM for around Â£750.......

Im a bit worried about this harsh ride thing though........ but like the slightly lower car and lsd option....

I wont be tracking the car for certain


----------



## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

TTommy said:


> I wont be tracking the car for certain


I think you're right not to. It isn't a track car by any means. Yes, certainly go on some driving tuition days in it but it isn't focussed enough to enjoy to the full on the track.

If you want competitive fun on the track, get the GT3/GT3RS.


----------



## tdk (Jul 22, 2003)

PIPTT said:


> tdk, much skuttle on it? is it the c4s?


Yup, C4S Cabriolet.

It certainly has scuttle shake, not bad, but noticeable over broken road surfaces - which seem to be 90% of UK roads!  I guess it's about as bad as my old TT Roadster (Mk I).

If you want a convertible with no scuttle shake then I'd suggest the Aston Martin V8 Vantage Roadster - I drove one recently back to back with the coupe and was amazed that there was no perceptible scuttle shake at all!



TTommy said:


> what colour is that car in your pic? Meteor?


Yup, Meteor. It's a toss up between that and GT Silver for me - I think Meteor might win the day though. 



> I have heard the new facelift has the lsd with the sports suspension option which also includes PASM for around Â£750.......


I've just had a read through of the 2009 Porsche Product Information PDF that's been leaked onto the Internet and LSD will be a seperate option for C2 models and standard spec on C4 models. 

PASM sports suspension (with a 20mm lowering) includes a LSD as you say. It'll be interesting to see if it'll be a combination of the current (self adjusting and comfortable) PASM with the drop in ride height of the current (harsh ride non-PASM) sports suspension. If so then that's an option box I'll definitely be ticking!

I don't think I'll be going for PDK as the Porsche manual gearbox is so rewarding to drive, plus I don't drive in heavy traffic very often. I also wouldn't bother with Sport Chrono Package again - I've got it on my current car and hardly ever use the feature. Bluetooth will be nice though (finally!) - I just hope it works better than the current telephone module, which is crap!

Simon.


----------



## TTommy (Apr 28, 2004)

tdk have you placed a deposit yet for your C4S? I was also thinking about going for the C4S as I do love its bigger ASS  and the safey of the 4wd...... How do you find it compared to you C2? Ive been told the modern C2S isnt dangerous to drive, just gotta be more careful if you are really going for it.....

You seem to be mulling over similar options to myself  GT Silver does look awesome compared to Arctic - but its another silver. I think at the moment we are settling on Meteor too.....


----------



## tdk (Jul 22, 2003)

TTommy said:


> tdk have you placed a deposit yet for your C4S?


I've not put a deposit down yet as I'm still comparing other options - AM V8 Vantage last week (too small and cramped inside) and Audi R8 this afternoon (too bling bling look at me for my liking). Only the Maserati GranTurismo S and the Porsche C4S Targa to try now as I'm running out of options. Would love a Lamborghini Gallardo, but the running costs are a touch on the high side!

I think I'm pretty set on the C4S - probably in Coupe form (although I'll reserve judgement until I've tried the Targa) - and will probably put a deposit down soon.



> I was also thinking about going for the C4S as I do love its bigger ASS  and the safey of the 4wd...... How do you find it compared to you C2? Ive been told the modern C2S isnt dangerous to drive, just gotta be more careful if you are really going for it.....


To be honest there's not a huge amount in it, but I did find the handling of the C4S better. There's more weight over the front end, so it gives a more stable and balanced drive - especially when pushing on. I also like that when you accelerate through a corner the 4wd sucks you round. For me it's not about the safety as the C2S is easy to drive as you've got to be really going for it in a stupid way to get out of shape. I've had my C2 for 19 months now and only once or twice got out of shape and that was in the wet and I was trying to provoke the car!

Get your deposit down and go on the Porsche Driving Experience day (I did Millbrook) and you'll be amazed at what the car car do!



> You seem to be mulling over similar options to myself  GT Silver does look awesome compared to Arctic - but its another silver. I think at the moment we are settling on Meteor too.....


Yeah, I know I definitely don't want Artic Silver - too white for my liking.

Simon.


----------



## TTommy (Apr 28, 2004)

tdk said:


> TTommy said:
> 
> 
> > tdk have you placed a deposit yet for your C4S?
> ...


I have put a deposit down on the C2S - the dealer never mentioned anything about the PDE.... Do you normally do this before or after you get the car?


----------



## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

tdk said:


> AM V8 Vantage last week (too small and cramped inside)


Are you a big guy then, i took one out and found it fine, im 6ft and a fair size build and had no issues with it.


----------



## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

TTommy said:


> I have put a deposit down on the C2S - the dealer never mentioned anything about the PDE.... Do you normally do this before or after you get the car?


It's supposed to be before you get your car. However, there were than many sales in 2006 when I got mine, I'd had the car a few months before I actually got to Millbrook. 

Query it with your dealer, I thought PDE was still operating as usual.


----------



## Widget (May 7, 2002)

ResB said:


> It's supposed to be before you get your car. However, there were than many sales in 2006 when I got mine, I'd had the car a few months before I actually got to Millbrook.


Me too.

Although I didn't go through my dealer, I just phoned the place who sorts out the PDE directly.

I'll try and find the number for you if you like.


----------



## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Found it:

Tel 0870 413 0911 or email [email protected]


----------



## tdk (Jul 22, 2003)

TTommy said:


> I have put a deposit down on the C2S - the dealer never mentioned anything about the PDE.... Do you normally do this before or after you get the car?


Yup, as others have said - it should be before you get the car, although I didn't get around to doing mine until almost a year after I'd had the car! :lol:

Simon.


----------



## tdk (Jul 22, 2003)

ronin said:


> Are you a big guy then, i took one out and found it fine, im 6ft and a fair size build and had no issues with it.


Nope, not particularly - I just found that it felt rather small inside, especially when compared to my 911. I went and had another look at the weekend and I'm still of the same opinion, which is a shame as it's a stunning looking car! 

Simon.


----------

