# Designed for Windows XP...



## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

I was bored at work today so I decided to troll Dell Support who we have a rather substantial service contract with.

The 'problem' is with my company laptop, a Dell D610. Thanks to Windows b0rking my MBR, I had to perform a complete reinstall (I think fix mbr is just there to be sarcastic). This wasn't a total disaster as I wanted to shuffle some partitions around; anyway I digress. Said laptop comes adorned with a lovely sticker announcing that it's "Designed for Windows XP." How awesome. Let's refresh our memories as to what exactly that means:

_The Designed for Windows XP logo program focuses specifically on improving the end user's experience._

_Simply stated, the Designed for Windows XP logo tells users that the software or hardware will run correctly on Windows XP._

Excellent. I stupidly assumed that this would mean that Windows XP will find all my specifically designed for Windows XP hardware, and all the specifically designed for Windows XP drivers would be recoverable from the specifically designed for Windows XP website. Knowing full well that wasn't the case, I decided to phone my trusty gold support hotline and find out why my bluetooth module, despite XP installing the drivers for it, fails to work.

*Me:* So really, I want to know my bluetooth module doesn't work with the Windows XP driver?

After a lot of toing-and froing I finally got across that no, I wasn't using the driver supplied on the supplementary drivers disk, I was using the driver which XP installs itself. Without me asking it to. No choice given.

*Dell:* Oh i see, you have to remove the windows XP driver and then reinstall the driver supplied on the disk.
*Me:* Um, why?
*Dell:* Because you've not installed the hardware correctly to start with and Windows has installed its own driver which isn't compatible. This is why we always recommend installations are carried out by qualified people.

Uh oh, now you've done it.

*Me:* How have I not installed my hardware correctly?
*Dell:* Well you have to install the driver first
*Me:* Oh I see, I install the driver and then I install Windows.
*Dell:* No, you install Windows and then the driver.
*Me:* But Windows installed the driver without me asking
*Dell:* Yes, that's why you have to install the hardware first.
*Me:* But you just said I had to install the driver first.
*Dell:* No I mean, you have to plug the hardware in after windows and the driver has been installed.

Giggle suppressed.

*Me:* I'm sorry, forgive me, are you saying I should physically remove the bluetooth module, install windows, install the 3rd party driver, then put the module back again?
*Dell:* Yes. Then the driver is already there and windows will use it when you plug the bluetooth module in.
*Me:* Oh I get it now, sorry.
*Dell:* That's ok.
*Me:* One question though, would not desoldering and removing the bluetooth chip from the motherboard somewhat invalidate my warranty?
*Dell:* Remove a chip? No, God, no don't do that. Why would you do that?
*Me:* Because you just told me to.
*Dell:* No, I didn't tell you to do that.
*Me:* Yes you did. You told me to remove the bluetooth module, install windows, install the driver then put it back in.
*Dell:* Oh no, that's not what I meant. I thought you were talking about a USB module.

Universal Serial Bus? More like Parallel Universe Bus. Fuck wit.

*Me:* USB module?
*Dell:* Sorry, yeah, it's the name of the port which your bluetooth receiver is plugged into.
*Me:* Um, I'm not using a USB bluetooth 'receiver' (wtf?) Why would I use an external bluetooth device when it has one welded to the motherboard?
*Dell:* I don't know, i didnt realise you meant that. Oh, if you're talking about the onboard bluetooth device (well, no shit, sherlock) then you MUST install the 3rd party driver supplied on the disk, nothing else would work.

Pardon?

*Dell:* The 3rd party driver supplied with the laptop is the only driver which will work, the Windows XP driver wont work properly.
*Me:* Oh. So, the only driver which works, is not the one XP installs itself, it's the one which is on the disk? No chance of any other driver working?
*Dell:* No.
*Me:* That's odd, because the bluetooth device works fine under a Linux kernel and its open source bluetooth stack.
*Dell:* Linux? Sorry, you're confusing me, I thought you used Windows (oooh,he knows what Linux is! Well done, Dell training program!)
*Me:* I do use Windows XP. And Linux. On the same hardware. I have both systems installed and can boot into either.
*Dell:* Oh well, we don't support Linux, I'm afraid.

Huh?

*Me:* I didn't ask if you could, or infer that you did. I was just stating a fact. It seems a bit strange that a laptop which has "designed for windows XP" plastered all over it, seems to be anything but. Maybe you could put "Designed for Linux" instead on them.
*Dell:* *laughs* (I was being serious, dude) Well, we don't support it. Anyway, this seems to be an isolated problem with this hardware; just install the required driver and it will work fine.
*Me:* Well as we've just established, it's not the required driver as it works under another OS with a generic driver. If you need further proof, it also works under FreeBSD with the same stack. Also, it's not isolated. The wireless card drops in and out under Windows, the touch pad doesn't work properly and the screen only goes up to 1280x1024 instead of its native 1400x1050. All of which work under Linux.
*Dell:* Well, we don't support it I'm afraid.
*Me:* Well that's ok, because I don't need Linux supported, just Windows. Would it be fair to say then, that a fair remedy to all my problems would be to work out which drivers are on the disk, remove the currently installed drivers from Windows XP, then install new drivers from the supplementary disk?
*Dell:* Yes.
*Me:* Does that not strike you as being slightly ridiculous?
*Dell:* Well, that's Windows isn't it? *laughs*
*Me:* Yes, and your hardware is designed for it.

*laughs and slams phone down*

Idiot.


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## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

Did you really just type all of that out?

I'm also bored at work, but fell asleep after the bit where you said "I was bored at work today so I ...."

Did I miss anything? :wink:


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

TT2BMW said:


> Did you really just type all of that out?
> 
> I'm also bored at work, but fell asleep after the bit where you said "I was bored at work today so I ...."
> 
> Did I miss anything? :wink:


:lol: Something about Devil and idle hands


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## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

Can think of better stuff to be doing with my idle hands, (obviously not at work though! Mind you, I don't suppose they mind where you work!!  ).


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

If that's your first conversation like that with a support muppet your either new to IT or very lucky!
Reminds me of the days when i had to talk to 1st line support myself.


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

ronin said:


> If that's your first conversation like that with a support muppet your either new to IT or very lucky!
> Reminds me of the days when i had to talk to 1st line support myself.


Oh no, far from it. My minions normally deal with the mundanities of House IT support. This was purely an exercise in trolling. If I genuinely need support for any combination of Dell or Windows, it's just thrown in someone's cube with "Oi fix this" closely behind it.


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

episteme said:


> ronin said:
> 
> 
> > If that's your first conversation like that with a support muppet your either new to IT or very lucky!
> ...


Guess a mangement course is next on the agenda then............ :roll: :wink:


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## ratty (May 18, 2004)

ronin said:


> If that's your first conversation like that with a support muppet your either new to IT or very lucky!
> Reminds me of the days when i had to talk to 1st line support myself.


That was never level one support more like level two!

All you normaly get from Dell level 1 (and most of the others as well) is 'oh just do a full system restore / reinstallation that should fix the problem' (no matter what is).

I remember seeing a video of 'Microsoft' tech support answering a call, to get ans answer to a customers problem the tech support guy aimed a dart at a specially notated dart board for the answer. In the case of the video the result was 'CTRL - ALT - DEL' that should fix it!

I must try and find this clip it was bloody funny.

BTW. I used to give OS/2 Level 3/4 support to OEMs. That was a job and a half!


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Oh well, I guess if you (or more likely, your IT Manager) knew much about PC hardware in the first place, you wouldn't have bought D(h)ell laptops in the first place, would you?

Sounds like the poor chap thought you had an external Bluetooth "receiver", and whether he should have known better is beside the point...

If the standard XP driver doesn't work with the hardware, I doubt that's Dell's fault. It certainly isn't the fault of the support monkey you were talking to.

If you know so much about it, why bother wasting your time calling? Ok, so you were trolling, but it sounds rather like an exercise in "I know more than you..." which (and I speak from experience, here) isn't particularly appealing... :roll:

You missed out a vital part of the conversation, though:

*Me:* I've got a TT you know.
*Dell:* So what? BTW what the fuck does "Swissoled" mean? Its not even a proper word...
*Me:* Sorry, I'm a twat.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

episteme said:


> ronin said:
> 
> 
> > If that's your first conversation like that with a support muppet your either new to IT or very lucky!
> ...


You are the pointy haired fella from "Dilbert" and I claim my Â£5.


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

:lol: :lol:

quality


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Fucking champion :lol:

Nice one Timothy!


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

:lol:

_Oh well, I guess if you (or more likely, your IT Manager) knew much about PC hardware in the first place, you wouldn't have bought D(h)ell laptops in the first place, would you?_

Well, as I have pointed out in another (unrelated) reply to someone else over something else, we have no control over House IT hardware and software; it's all controlled by the American parent company. Broadcast IT (which is my domain) believe me, is devoid of Dell and Windows where possible.

_Sounds like the poor chap thought you had an external Bluetooth "receiver", and whether he should have known better is beside the point..._

Oh, be realistic. The 'poor chap' was, according to the credentials in his 'follow up' email, a Bsc and MCSE. These aren't the idiots you phone up when your PC wont switch on, these are supposedly the top flight support engineers. Go figure. I did point out in the beginning it was an ONBOARD module (which he should have known anyway).

_If the standard XP driver doesn't work with the hardware, I doubt that's Dell's fault. It certainly isn't the fault of the support monkey you were talking to._

PAY ATTENTION PLZ. K THX. Whether the standard XP driver works or not was completely irrelevant. The whole thing centred around the fact that Dell make a point of stating how wonderfully their hardware works with Windows XP (as long as you install the 3rd party drivers, in the right order, removing the XP drivers first). I really couldn't care less about whose fault it is. All I wanted to know was the answer to the question which I knew already. A simple "Um I don't know" would have sufficed and removed him as a target.

_If you know so much about it, why bother wasting your time calling? Ok, so you were trolling, but it sounds rather like an exercise in "I know more than you..." which (and I speak from experience, here) isn't particularly appealing..._

Which part of "I was bored" is confusing? It has nothing to do with "I know more than you" and rather more to do with "how long can it be until you realise you're being trolled" - The answer to that question, as people so often unwittingly answer, is "an awful long time."

_Me: I've got a TT you know.
Dell: So what? BTW what the fuck does "Swissoled" mean? Its not even a proper word...
Me: Sorry, I'm a twat._

That part made me choke on my beer. Bastard. Still, don't blame me just because you're fat, 40 and still working on the help desk. :roll:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

I'm fat, 33 and, as you can probably imagine, don't "helpdesk" for anyone, except friends and family.

Thanks for asking, though... :-*

I still think phoning up a tech support department, armed with a question you already know the answer to, for the sole purpose of making the chap on the end of the phone look as stupid as possible, makes you a prize winning, Grade A, first class wanker.

You'd better hope the people on the end of your "Oi" comments don't choose to show YOU up one day, as I don't think your ego could handle it.

Oh well, if I decide I'm not feeling masculine enough tomorrow, maybe I'll punch a baby in the face. I'm sure it'll make me feel a whole lot better. :lol:

Your Laptop will work fine with XP. Just like it did before you decided to break it. It is perfectly normal to use a manufacturer's drivers - or more usual still, to use a manufacturers full RESTORE DISK in order to get an OS and drivers back onto a PC. But then you know that, as you're a technical genius, and such things are obviously beneath you.

Oh, and the Dell guy is right. Swissoled isn't a word.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

I guess you don't understand the logo - maybe you could ask 2nd line support to explain it to you :lol:

The designed for Windows XP logo is a program for OEM systems builders to PROVIDE hardware and/or software components of/for a PC. The Third party/ies agree/s to use a (microsoft) published standard and provide support to the end user for anything they supply under the program.

The logo does not mean if you stick in the retail widows disk all the drivers and component will a) be automatically loaded or b) work.

The drivers for the PC bearing the logo will be on the Systems builders OEM XP install disk in either a standard folder called $OEM$ or drivers folder by default - but the install program can look anywhere for them.


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

jampott said:


> I'm fat, 33 and, as you can probably imagine, don't "helpdesk" for anyone, except friends and family.
> 
> Thanks for asking, though... :-*
> 
> ...


THERE you are, I thought you'd forgotten me!

So I was seven years out :roll:

I reiterate for the third time; I was bored. Technically speaking he should know far more than I do about a) Dell hardware b) Windows so please stop providing him with your empathy (even though it's clearly shallow) as i have zero qualifications in and/or no real knowledge of either. The only wanker here is the person putting initials after their name which mean, loosely, fuck all.

I should also point out that, believe me, you can know precisely zero about a subject and still troll people into oblivion. It's really not difficult, but endlessly amusing.

As for it working FINE with XP before I broke it (actually XP broke it, it overwrites the MBR whether you want it to or not) yes it did; only because it already had all the manufacturers drivers installed. It's not 'perfectly natural' for it to work with manufacturers drivers as, which I stated previously, it works perfectly fine with open source drivers. So, that's that argument shot down.

People on the end of my "Oi" comments are people who deserve to be on the end of my "Oi" comments; normally those who are too busy on MSN Messenger for me to possibly ask them to do something.

As for using restore disks, wtf? Do you live in the real world? Who the fuck has restore disks? Frankly I wish people DID have restore disks; have you ever tried finding drivers for something like an HP Brio or a Fujitsu Scaleo P that some fuck wit relative/friend/other has ruined? No, well I have, and it's living hell, so shut the fuck up. It makes me cry thinking about it.

Still, at least you're championing what is, after all, such a good idea: Making hardware that is intrinsically linked into the OS is a REALLY good idea; no really.

As for Swissoled, look, at least my sobriquet is a word. Unlike yours. So shut it.


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

Toshiba said:


> I guess you don't understand the logo - maybe you could ask 2nd line support to explain it to you :lol:
> 
> The designed for Windows XP logo is a program for OEM systems builders to PROVIDE hardware and/or software components of/for a PC. The Third party/ies agree/s to use a (microsoft) published standard and provide support to the end user for anything they supply under the program.
> 
> ...


And i guess YOU didn't understand what I put, in italics, in my original post. Those were the parts I quoted in my email to Dell.

You will also note I said _Excellent. I stupidly assumed that this would mean that Windows XP will find all my specifically designed for Windows XP hardware, and all the specifically designed for Windows XP drivers would be recoverable from the specifically designed for Windows XP website. *Knowing full well that wasn't the case...*_

Yet, they STILL didn't defend themselves. Also, it would seem that my Dell is hardly designed for Windows XP, when I have all its features availble without XP anywhere near it. I WAS TROLLING HIM FOR GO... nevermind.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

But the customer is always right.

I think 'dip shit are you for real?' and 'get a life' is not the corporate line even dell in india will want to promote.


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

Toshiba said:


> But the customer is always right.
> 
> I think 'dip shit are you for real?' and 'get a life' is not the corporate line even dell in india will want to promote.


Ireland. "Real" technical support (ie, not, "can you tell me what lights are on") is based there.

Christ, talk about "spot the ex-help desk people."


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

fuck, I'm not ex help desk - i'd tell you straight. 
'fix it yourself twat, o and the bluetooth drivers are wank. But If you bend over i will insert the DVD for you'.

'Anything else i can help you with today?'


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

Toshiba said:


> fuck, I'm not ex help desk - i'd tell you straight.
> 'fix it yourself twat, o and the bluetooth drivers are wank. But If you bend over i will insert the DVD for you'.
> 
> 'Anything else i can help you with today?'


:lol: lol: - Now THAT I could deal with!


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

Blimey, I take my hat off to you IT guys, I haven't got a fucking clue what you're all talking about but it sounds really complicated and clever.

All I do all day long is draw pretty pictures on my Mac, have Macs got those USB thingies? Is that the bit where I plug my iPod into? :roll:

Graham


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

I'm not ex-helpdesk either, although I will admit to a lapsed MCP back in the days of NT4, which I did because I could - but I'm an Architect / Consultant / Developer in Telecoms. I do have to deal with helpdesks, and try not to wind them up - you never know when you WILL need their help.

There are many, many reasons to flame Dell. That guy isn't one of them.


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

Love_iTT said:


> Blimey, I take my hat off to you IT guys, I haven't got a fucking clue what you're all talking about but it sounds really complicated and clever.
> 
> All I do all day long is draw pretty pictures on my Mac, have Macs got those USB thingies? Is that the bit where I plug my iPod into? :roll:
> 
> Graham


_I haven't got a fucking clue what you're all talking about but it sounds really complicated and clever._

And you think I do? Still, that's precisely what I rely on when pay reviews and bonuses come up.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

episteme said:


> Love_iTT said:
> 
> 
> > Blimey, I take my hat off to you IT guys, I haven't got a fucking clue what you're all talking about but it sounds really complicated and clever.
> ...


Pay reviews? Bonuses? Fuck that. Ahhh... now I understand. A frustrated permie. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

jampott said:


> episteme said:
> 
> 
> > Love_iTT said:
> ...


ROFL :lol: - I know, I know  But the temptation of a job 5 miles from my house compared to working God knows where, for God knows how long was a no-brainer.

Yeah, you're right :lol: :lol:


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

jampott said:


> I'm not ex-helpdesk either, although I will admit to a lapsed MCP back in the days of NT4, which I did because I could - but I'm an Architect / Consultant / Developer in Telecoms. I do have to deal with helpdesks, and try not to wind them up - you never know when you WILL need their help.
> 
> There are many, many reasons to flame Dell. That guy isn't one of them.


Well I was hardly flaming anyone, including Dell. I was just trolling yet another person who take themselves far too seriously; In much the same way that, for instance like, oooh I dunno, the nasty, awful, person or of course personS trolled the entire Perl dev team by coding and submitting the Time::Cubic module. Sadly removed


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## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

I'm on an IT Helpdesk.

I don't profess to know everything about the 400+ applications that the company support nor every piece of hardware.

My job is to try and provide a 1st time response/fix and if not pass to second line.

I'd certainly begrudge some cocky twat calling me with this sort of trolling and I'd be certain I'd spot it and tell him, in no uncertain terms, to fuck right off.


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

TT2BMW said:


> I'm on an IT Helpdesk.
> 
> I don't profess to know everything about the 400+ applications that the company support nor every piece of hardware.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't expect them to know anything about the specific hardware or software, unless I'd specifically said in the email which hardware and software I was talking about and then asked that someone with the specific knowledge contacted me. Oh wait, that's exactly what I did.

You would begrudge someone trolling you, then tell them to fuck right off?

Could be me, but I think that's the desired response.


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## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

episteme said:


> ... unless I'd specifically said in the email


So, did you e-mail them or phone them? Your first post said you'd phoned them!

Do you not know the difference between an e-mail and a phonecall?

Thick shit!!


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

TT2BMW said:


> episteme said:
> 
> 
> > ... unless I'd specifically said in the email
> ...


I said previously:

_Oh, be realistic. The 'poor chap' was, according to the credentials in his 'follow up' email, a Bsc and MCSE._

I emailed them initially with the fault report and asked for someone to contact me; I could have phoned to start with but, as I also said earlier,

_then asked that someone with the specific knowledge contacted me._

Pay attention, Thick shit!! :roll:


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## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

And you did all that for a laugh and a trolling session?

Fuck me, you must lead a sad life!!


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## spain (May 28, 2005)

Whilst yu guys rant away at each other over nothing, what did you write in page 3???

It seems it was so bad that my work firewall wonÂ´t let me read it!!


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

TT2BMW said:


> And you did all that for a laugh and a trolling session?
> 
> Fuck me, you must lead a sad life!!


Go go double post. Oops.


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

TT2BMW said:


> And you did all that for a laugh and a trolling session?
> 
> Fuck me, you must lead a sad life!!


WHICH PART OF "I WAS BORED AT WORK" DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? PLZ ADVISE THX.

Believe me, this was positively constructive compared to other things that have been done in search of the elusive lulz.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

episteme said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > episteme said:
> ...


Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have a beautifully flexible, long term contract, and it takes 10 minutes to walk to work.

One of the reasons I'm moving house this year (but keeping the same contract) is that I have an R8 on the way, and want to have a solid excuse to drive it every day.

Tragic, isn't it?


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

jampott said:


> Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have a beautifully flexible, long term contract, and it takes 10 minutes to walk to work.
> 
> One of the reasons I'm moving house this year (but keeping the same contract) is that I have an R8 on the way, and want to have a solid excuse to drive it every day.
> 
> Tragic, isn't it?


Shut up 

I guess I'm as lucky as I will get. Most of my industry is based around central London (more tradition than requirement, these days) and the thought of doing that hack on the train each day is just awful, now I'm used to my fifteen minute cruise home. I'm about the happiest I've ever been in a job, so i can't complain I suppose.

R8 on the way, eh? Very nice to. Hopefully I'll have an S4 on the way at some point this year, so I'll be one step behind you! (Although a somewhat big step away from an R8 )


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

episteme said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have a beautifully flexible, long term contract, and it takes 10 minutes to walk to work.
> ...


The Salesman is making an appearance 8) .

Why don't you buy Tim's S4 that i think is still up for sale, so that would satisfy your desire for an S4, then you can both kiss & hug in a Technical kind of way.

Talk about nailing a deal. No wonder i'm downsizing :lol:


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

W7 PMC said:


> episteme said:
> 
> 
> > jampott said:
> ...


A) Because it's not black. B) Because it's an avant. C) Because you think I'd trust that dodgy bastard?? :lol:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

I wouldn't sell it to you anyway, you little twat. :lol:


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

jampott said:


> I wouldn't sell it to you anyway, you little twat. :lol:


:lol:


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## marcusgilbert (Jan 22, 2007)

It took me flippin' ages to read this thread from the beginning, but I think I have the solution to episteme's little problem...

Peel the f**kin 'designed for Windows' sticker of th crappy Dell 610. Now make the call to Dell without any pre(mis)conceptions about what the PC should or should not do! :lol:

Or, better still, buy an Apple MacBook. :lol: 
.


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## philyuk (Jul 25, 2006)

marcusgilbert wrote:

It took me flippin' ages to read this thread from the beginning, but I think I have the solution to episteme's little problem...

Peel the f**kin 'designed for Windows' sticker of th crappy Dell 610. Now make the call to Dell without any pre(mis)conceptions about what the PC should or should not do!

Or, better still, buy an Apple MacBook.

Fucking superb!!!!


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

marcusgilbert said:


> It took me flippin' ages to read this thread from the beginning, but I think I have the solution to episteme's little problem...
> 
> Peel the f**kin 'designed for Windows' sticker of th crappy Dell 610. Now make the call to Dell without any pre(mis)conceptions about what the PC should or should not do! :lol:
> 
> ...


It's a a shame then, that you managed that, but failed to take the time to read the thread linked to below and, let's be honest, still managed to completely miss the point of this one.

http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... hp?t=83978


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## s3_lurker (May 6, 2002)

Hysterical ... PC geeks bitching that their computers won't work and crying for integrated hardware and OS but who'd never use a Macintosh 'cos its"not a real computer".


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

s3_lurker said:


> Hysterical ... PC geeks bitching that their computers won't work and crying for integrated hardware and OS but who'd never use a Macintosh 'cos its"not a real computer".


Hell yeah, if everyone ran NetBSD atop MIPS, I'd be a happy man!

Oh Macs are real computers they're just not superior


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## marcusgilbert (Jan 22, 2007)

episteme said:


> s3_lurker said:
> 
> 
> > Hysterical ... PC geeks bitching that their computers won't work and crying for integrated hardware and OS but who'd never use a Macintosh 'cos its"not a real computer".
> ...


Superior!? Is that what really matters to you? :? If so, then you really are missing the point.
My iMac (intel) has run for a year without a single error!
It has no anti-virus s/w on it.
It's used EVERY day (and rarely switched off).
I have hundred of photos on it (it auto-synced to my Casio camera).
I have thousands of songs in iTunes - and trust it not to 'lose' songs I buy fromiTunes regularly.
It has Microsoft Entourage installed so I can synce my Palm Treo to my work PC's Outlook.
I also use parallels vitual machine so that it runs Windows XP in a separate window (just so I can run my Tax software and a couple of other windows only programs).
It's a Personal Computer (PC) that just does what it says on the tin!

How bad can that be? If you really want to be superior, buy a Windows PC., with some tools, lots of spare time to waste staring at techie 'restore' screens and while you wait you can study for a degree in computing technogeek speak. :roll: I'll just get on with some work and play.

BTW - It also looks nice  
.


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## s3_lurker (May 6, 2002)

Without trying to make Steve Jobs even richer and more obnoxious than he already is, can I just say we run a network of about 12 macs and XServe (PowerPc and Intel) on OSX and haven't ever had a crash. Frozen apps - yes (just force quit the app and carry on working). But never a catastrophic failure that required a reboot. Neither do they start auto updating the latest daily security patch in the middle of a job requiring an inconvenient restart. But I fully realise that PC's and Windows are a fact of life. Which is why we have a crappy old Dell in the corner running Sage accounting and nothing else. It just irks me that Gates is the richest man in the world for putting out an awfully mediocre operating system that owes its success to the historical anomaly that his MSDOS was the only game in town when IBM wanted to make a PC, rather than any intrinsic elegance or excellence.


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

marcusgilbert said:


> Superior!? Is that what really matters to you? :? If so, then you really are missing the point.
> My iMac (intel) has run for a year without a single error!
> It has no anti-virus s/w on it.
> It's used EVERY day (and rarely switched off).
> ...


_Superior!? Is that what really matters to you? If so, then you really are missing the point._

I know, I'm just CRAZY, wanting to use a superior product. What point am I missing? That it's not a product's superiority that's important? No, you're right, what a bollocks idea that is.

_My iMac (intel) has run for a year without a single error!_

A single _non-recoverable_ error which, in a system with correct VM management and kernel/OS abstraction is really no great achievment. That seems remarkable to you, as you're probably used to Windows which is missing those two, crucial, features (amongst a whole lot more)

_It has no anti-virus s/w on it.
_
Jesus are you mad? Have you no sense of security man?! There are _at least_, what, 3 viruses for OSX in the wild! QUICK, INSTALL SOME A/V NOW!!!!!

_It's used EVERY day (and rarely switched off)._

EVERY DAY??? ARE YOU KIDDING? OMG, THAT'S LIKE, UNBELIEVABLE YOU USE IT EVERY DAY AND IT STILL WORKS?????? FUCK ME SIDEWAYS.

_I have hundred of photos on it (it auto-synced to my Casio camera)._

Uh, that's nice.

_I have thousands of songs in iTunes - and trust it not to 'lose' songs I buy from iTunes regularly._

You trust the hard disk not to die, you mean? That's brave.

_It has Microsoft Entourage installed so I can synce my Palm Treo to my work PC's Outlook._

Is your next point going to be "it has a keyboard and mouse attached and WORKING?"

_I also use parallels vitual machine so that it runs Windows XP in a separate window (just so I can run my Tax software and a couple of other windows only programs)._

That's nice. I use VMware and/or WINE.

_It's a Personal Computer (PC) that just does what it says on the tin!_

Groundbreaking!

_How bad can that be? If you really want to be superior, buy a Windows PC., with some tools, lots of spare time to waste staring at techie 'restore' screens and while you wait you can study for a degree in computing technogeek speak. :roll: I'll just get on with some work and play. _

Oh it's not bad, not all, it's just not remarkable either. Thanks for the advice on using Windows, but I think I'll pass. Dude, it is you that has missed the point here. I'm well aware that OSX, for the most parts, does what it's supposed to (well for the less demanding user at least). The point is, that's rather a case of "so fucking what?"

I've had Apple reps trying to peddle me everything from database solutions to high end storage and everything they offer is outperformed (much to their chagrin) by better, cost-effective software running on older, perfectly solid hardware which I already have in place.

As for studying for a degree in computing technogeek, actually it was Computer Science. Close though!

They do look nice though, that much I'll give you. No argument there :wink:


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## marcusgilbert (Jan 22, 2007)

episteme said:


> _Superior!? Is that what really matters to you? If so, then you really are missing the point._
> I know, I'm just CRAZY, wanting to use a superior product. What point am I missing? That it's not a product's superiority that's important? No, you're right, what a bollocks idea that is.
> 
> *I never said the iMac is or is not superior. I don't care for badges of honour. It's just that it seems to be an important issue to you. Your opinion is yours alone.*
> ...


Yes, they do look nice.  :wink:

.


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## ratty (May 18, 2004)

Marcusgilbert

You missed the important bit, according to* 'episteme'* forget the rest you should be running "NetBSD atop MIPS". :roll:

Simple isn't

:wink:


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## marcusgilbert (Jan 22, 2007)

ratty said:


> Marcusgilbert
> You missed the important bit, according to* 'episteme'* forget the rest you should be running "NetBSD atop MIPS". :roll:
> 
> Simple isn't
> :wink:


WTF are they? Do they come with fries? 
:roll:


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## ratty (May 18, 2004)

marcusgilbert said:


> ratty said:
> 
> 
> > Marcusgilbert
> ...


Ah you need to catch up:

http://www.netbsd.org/

Then take your pick:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIPS_architecture

http://www.mips.com/

As for the fries:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international ... 12,00.html

Or just stick with the Mac.

:wink:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Don't listen to the mad one. His name is virtually an anagram of "Meat Pies".


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

ratty said:


> marcusgilbert said:
> 
> 
> > ratty said:
> ...


Haha. I think it's NetBSD that needs to catch up, if I'm totally honest.


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

Marcusgilbert:

Why do you keep talking about using Windows?

confused.com


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

jampott said:


> Don't listen to the mad one. His name is virtually an anagram of "Meat Pies".


Yes, well, at least _I_ haven't eaten them all.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

episteme said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > Don't listen to the mad one. His name is virtually an anagram of "Meat Pies".
> ...


Did I say you had?


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

jampott said:


> episteme said:
> 
> 
> > jampott said:
> ...


Did I imply you had said I had?


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

episteme said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > episteme said:
> ...


I don't recall suggesting that you had implied that I had said you had.


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## sonicmonkey (Mar 20, 2004)

jampott said:


> episteme said:
> 
> 
> > jampott said:
> ...


You two would really make a beautiful couple :wink:


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

jampott said:


> episteme said:
> 
> 
> > jampott said:
> ...


You seemed to allude to the fact that i had said that you had said that I did when in fact I didn't, although you're now saying the implication isn't that you had said that I said that you did, which again is correct because I didn't, but that rather leaves me wondering what I had said which caused you to say what you said and result in me thinking that you had said that what I said somehow implied that you had.


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

sonicmonkey said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > episteme said:
> ...


Don't tell him that, he's just getting over us as it is. I don't want to start all THAT off again.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

episteme said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > episteme said:
> ...


I wonder how much of your life you've wasted in typing that... :lol:


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

jampott said:


> episteme said:
> 
> 
> > jampott said:
> ...


A lot :lol: It actually delayed me going home  Bastard.


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## s3_lurker (May 6, 2002)

>OSX, for the most parts, does what it's supposed to (well for the less >demanding user at least)

:roll:

Why would you assume that that the jobs people do with OSX are any less important or critical than the jobs people do with Windows?

:roll:


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## spain (May 28, 2005)

get over it you fools :wink:


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## s3_lurker (May 6, 2002)

Good post Spain ... not one typo


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## spain (May 28, 2005)

Actually I didnÂ´t put the first letter as a capital, but IÂ´m getting better :lol:


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

s3_lurker said:


> Why would you assume that that the jobs people do with OSX are any less important or critical than the jobs people do with Windows?
> 
> :roll:


Right, purposely stupid, argumentative replies which are designed to be amusing are one thing; intending to actually make a point with one is quite another.

If you had bothered reading the OP, you will notice that I'm hardly a proponent of Windows. In fact, the only thing you could possibly surmise was that I was having a pop at Dell 'expert' support; which I wasn't I was trolling them. Slightly different.

Secondly, why the fuck do people (including you) keep saying I'm referring to Windows? Even in the thread I linked to (which is on a different subject) I make it plainly clear that I'm not attempting to juxtapose Windows and OSX because there's no fucking point. BLAH. I'm sorry if this is a startling revelation to you, but Windows and OSX aren't the only OSes in existence. Thank fuck for that.

Let's now analyze your question:

_Why would you assume that that the jobs people do with OSX are any less important or critical than the jobs people do with Windows?_

Eh? Firstly, I didn't say LESS CRITICAL I said LESS DEMANDING. For all I know, photoshopping someone's head onto someone else's body might be CRITICAL in your job, but it sure as hell ain't demanding.

By demanding, I'm talking about doing things like rendering RTV across say GigE. THAT'S 'demanding' (well even that's not really THAT demanding, but it would seem to be for things like OSX or Windows) on an OS and its hardware. It means they all have to be working in harmony with no shitty overhead. Again, a problem for OSX and Windows.

I could solve half the problem by helping OSX out by using something like Myrinet; it has far less overhead than ethernet and doesn't have to make a call to the OS. Oh but, no, sorry, OSX and Myrinet don't work together properly. Thanks Apple.

Secondly, as I referred to earlier, why are you drawing a comparison to people who use Windows? OSX & Windows are outperformed by OSes such as Solaris, Linux and the *BSDs to an extent that's embarrassing. Believe me, when I'm drubbing OSX for it's lack of performance, the very last thing on the planet I'm using as a yard stick is Windows.

Anyway, I'll forgive you for not being aware of the facts and more to the point not caring; I doubt your job requires you to. Unfortunately, mine does. However, that said, please don't try and argue a point on which you have no frame of reference!


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## philyuk (Jul 25, 2006)

I bet all that's fun on a first date :lol:


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

philyuk said:



> I bet all that's fun on a first date :lol:


wtf


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## marcusgilbert (Jan 22, 2007)

episteme said:


> philyuk said:
> 
> 
> > I bet all that's fun on a first date :lol:
> ...


 :lol: :lol: You gotta laugh. I never saw that one coming! It woke from the snooze that your previous techno-rant had sent me in to. :lol: 
PRICELESS!
.


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

marcusgilbert said:


> episteme said:
> 
> 
> > philyuk said:
> ...


I'm sorry if the "techno rant" was confusing; SOME of us have educations :roll:


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## philyuk (Jul 25, 2006)

What more than one?


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## foojeek (Nov 22, 2004)

I used to work with a smart-arsed know it all show off of a prick, and he was admitedly very clever and knew more about *.ux than anyone ive ever met.

However his idea of a fun time was sitting up in bed post-midnight sending emails to work showing off said smart-arsed-ness.

No one liked him tho; rather like being a copper really :lol:


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

foojeek said:


> I used to work with a smart-arsed know it all show off of a prick, and he was admitedly very clever and knew more about *.ux than anyone ive ever met.
> 
> However his idea of a fun time was sitting up in bed post-midnight sending emails to work showing off said smart-arsed-ness.
> 
> No one liked him tho; rather like being a copper really :lol:


Well, I'm sure this guy would approve of my motto then: "Better to be arrogant and right than humble and wrong" 

Also, I can't speak for anyone else here, but post-pub posts are usually my most coherent.


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

episteme said:


> ...Well, I'm sure this guy would approve of my motto then: "Better to be arrogant and right than humble and wrong"


Maybe, but I think being Humble and right is even better. :roll:

Graham


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

Love_iTT said:


> Maybe, but I think being Humble and right is even better. :roll:
> 
> Graham


But less inflammatory. I'll stick with my way


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## s3_lurker (May 6, 2002)

episteme said:


> s3_lurker said:
> 
> 
> > Why would you assume that that the jobs people do with OSX are any less important or critical than the jobs people do with Windows?
> ...


FFS ... chill ... you sound 'in more dire need of a blow job than any white man in history'

Solaris? Linux? Myrinet? BSD? RTV across say GigE? I'm afraid you're confusing me with someone who gives a fuck


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## cuTTsy (Jan 31, 2003)

one word story...

Obnoxious


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

s3_lurker said:


> episteme said:
> 
> 
> > s3_lurker said:
> ...


Aww it's ok, you don't have to ignore the fact I made your post redundant  I tell you what, next time you post something inane, I'll say "LOL OK CANT SAY MUCH TO THAT!!11" - can we be friends then?

How's your wireless network by the way - managed to buy a clue yet?


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## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

cuTTsy said:


> one word story...
> 
> Obnoxious


I think you're confusing "obnoxious" with "correct" - don't worry, I get that a lot.


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