# Concorde - A sad sight



## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

coming out of the supermarket tonight, loud rumbling in the sky,look up and its Concorde - a rare sight so low over Farnborough. Looked stunning with the setting sun shining on it as it climbed - what a noise too.

A sad sight as it'll be no more soon - if only BA would sell them to Virgin


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## jgoodman00 (May 6, 2002)

Yup, an amazing plane & very sad to see it fly no more.

Did you see the Richard Branson program on it? More good publicity for ba


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Just watched her land at Heathrow this evening from the window of my very boring Boeing 757 BA flight back up to Manchester.

She is a beautiful creature & to fly in her was always one of my dreams, but sadly one i'll never manage to fulfill  :'(


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## jgoodman00 (May 6, 2002)

> She is a beautiful creature & to fly in her was always one of my dreams, but sadly one i'll never manage to fulfill  :'(


Ditto


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## marksovereign (Sep 20, 2003)

I watch her take off out of Manchester ocasionally - she takes off right down the line of my office window, im 5 miles from the end of the runway and I can hear her take off - what a noise theres nothing like it !! And the she banks away god theres still nothing like her after 30 years !
A sad loss indeed, surely BA could sell her to branson - though apparently its Airbus who are the problem wont guarantee the servicing - yep another loss to EU beaurcracy. Come on Tony lets really get in too bed with them and get properly shafted !!
:'(


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## Major Audi Parts Guru (May 7, 2002)

Although Concorde is about 30 years old,she is still a young aircraft in terms of airframe life and grounding her is nothing short of a crime.Airbus,Ba and this loony Labour Government that we have should all be ashamed of themselves for letting something like this happen.
It breaks my heart to think that the Concorde fleet will spend the rest of its days at various museums around the country :'(


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## mike_bailey (May 7, 2002)

I was saddened at the weekend to read that Air France have already broken their's up and are auctioning bits off. A nose cone is being sold as a single auction item that will fetch a significant sum for some nameless, faceless twats in Paris.

Admittedly, it's about business and perceptions - few people really want to fly in it since the crash.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Concorde....ahead of its time blah blah blah.....etc....thing is IT STILL IS there is not one current civillian passenger aircraft that can touch her. I know costs etc are high but its amazing that a next gen version of her has never been developed and that todays planes aren't all speeding about the skies at near Con. speeds.
BA plz sell her to Virgin........I wanna fly to the US in the time it takes a poxy old 737 just to get to Greece. :-[


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## Gren (Jul 25, 2002)

Roars over our house every night at 7. Can hear it over the TV but I wouldn;t have it any other way.

Always been a dream of mine to fly on it but sadly there is always something more worthy to spend a few grand on.

Gren


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## cuTTsy (Jan 31, 2003)

Have a few good memories of Concorde.

Standing on the Mall during the Jubilee flyby, and standing on the beach in Barbados early one morning and watching Concorde fly around the island and into the Airport.

Would have loved to have flown on her. One ex employee once received an upgrade to Concorde when she was flying back from the States. Not bad hey.

The Branson thing was just a stunt, he was never going to buy it.
Nice PR though.


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

Very sad to see the plane go - flies over my house at about 7pm and I always stop and have a look.

Have to say though, I've never really been that fussed about flying on it. It may be quick and all that, but the thought of sitting for 3.5 hours in very cramped conditions just doesn't appeal.

I'd rather have a snooze on one of BA's flat beds, watch a movie and then have a nice breakfast. ;D


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## gcp (Aug 8, 2002)

I think it amazing Concorde lasted so long though I too wish they would change their minds. :'(

Standard commercial airframe life is 30 years or so, after which major rebuild or scrapping occurs.

Supersonic and the extra stress this brings to a structure decreases life/increases maintenance cost massively.

Boeing are currently working on smaller faster aircraft as they know Airbus has them licked on almost all other ranges.

Supersonic flights will be back again, though maybe not to soon.


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## jgoodman00 (May 6, 2002)

Isnt the space shuttle of almost comparable age, but they keep them flying (barring two exceptions).


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

The maintenance costs of the shuttle are astronomic (no pun intended) - its not a commercial service so does not need to make money.


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## scott28tt (Jul 30, 2002)

> I was saddened at the weekend to read that Air France have already broken their's up and are auctioning bits off.


They have also sold/donated a full Concorde to a US flight museum. It's still a shame though


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## moley (May 14, 2002)

I wonder what would have happened if the Paris accident hadn't happened?  Possibly still be in service?

Great aircraft and I'll vouch for the noise - you can't miss it - but then the engines were from a military programme ;D

Moley


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

> but then the engines were from a military programme


Yeah none of these fuel effecient, high bypass turbofans - proper Gas turbine engines ;D


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## r14n (Jan 10, 2003)

> I watch her take off out of Manchester ocasionally - she takes off right down the line of my office window, im 5 miles from the end of the runway
> :'(


Which end do you work, must be the Knutsford end.

I lived 2 mins from the other end for over 20 years and never saw her take off. Â  Â I saw her on the tarmac once, and is one of those designs that look fantastic from any angle, still or moving. On that RB pr programme, he mentioned that one or two may survive to be used for charter / pleasure trips. (group but anyone ?) And BA wont sell them, because they want concorde passangers to transfer onto their 1st class service.

Ian.


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## droopsnoot (Sep 5, 2002)

It's not a bad record, though - one major incident in all the time it's been flying. I don't know airliners very well, but is there another that can boast a record like that?

I'm surprised the US were interested in having one for a museum as they wouldn't let it fly over the US mainland. There were massive protests about the noise pollution when it first started flying to JFK. Might have been different if they'd invented it.....


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## cuTTsy (Jan 31, 2003)

> I'm surprised the US were interested in having one for a museum as they wouldn't let it fly over the US mainland. There were massive protests about the noise pollution when it first started flying to JFK. Might have been different if they'd invented it..... Â


That's right and there would have been more planes and a bigger program, Imagine all those flights to L.A


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

I used to live under the flight path to Heathrow. ANd while Concorde is/waqs a thing of beauty, when it shook your entire house as it went past, it wasn't so nice.

If you were on the phone you had to stop speaking.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

> Which end do you work, must be the Knutsford end.
> 
> I lived 2 mins from the other end for over 20 years and never saw her take off. Â  Â I saw her on the tarmac once, and is one of those designs that look fantastic from any angle, still or moving. On that RB pr programme, he mentioned that one or two may survive to be used for charter / pleasure trips. (group but anyone ?) And BA wont sell them, because they want concorde passangers to transfer onto their 1st class service.
> 
> Ian.


Thats a good point Ian. Concorde is not on any schedule out of Manchester Airport. I know she was/is making an appearance for her farewell tour along with Glasgow, East Mids & a couple of other UK Airports, but i've never heard of her flying in or out of Manchester. Up until the 2nd runway was built, she'd have been unable to land as the first runway could only just accomodate 747's & Concorde needs about 1/2 as much again as a 747 or 777, hence why she can only land on 1 of Heathrow's runways.

Perhaps she made a visit for the Commonwealth games or the Jubilee etc. but defo only a very rare sight flying into or out of Manchester if she's ever been at all.


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## moley (May 14, 2002)

> ... but i've never heard of her flying in or out of Manchester. Up until the 2nd runway was built, she'd have been unable to land as the first runway could only just accomodate 747's & Concorde needs about 1/2 as much again as a 747 or 777, hence why she can only land on 1 of Heathrow's runways.


I'm pretty sure she's been flying in and out of Manchester on charters for many years.

Moley


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## Dubcat (Jun 10, 2002)

I saw it flying past heathrow today. Sad that they are stopping it  Lovely bird.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Still a cool bird.

I remember being stunned when as a kid I saw Concorde, and the Red Arrows to a flypass over the QE2.

2-3 years ago they both did the same over Dartmouth Naval College and the Dart estury during regatta week.

I had a poster of that for years on my wall.

Boeing Corp must be smirking.


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

And for anyone wanting a once-in-a-lifetime photo of their TT, she is taking off from Edinburgh airport on the 24th of October. With any luck she'll take off towards our house across the Forth River and I'll be there, camera at the ready.

Apparently there will be three flights leaving for New York for the final journey in that direction, London, Edinburgh and somewhere else...


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## PaulRS3 (May 7, 2002)

its a great shame.

were actually going backwards in technology by breaking it.

there is nothing to replace it. :'(


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

> And for anyone wanting a once-in-a-lifetime photo of their TT, she is taking off from Edinburgh airport on the 24th of October. With any luck she'll take off towards our house across the Forth River and I'll be there, camera at the ready.


I am sure we could spoil our pics by the inclusion of a Merc - potential mini - mini meet??


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

> I am sure we could spoil our pics by the inclusion of a Merc - potential mini - mini meet??


Sounds good to me but we may be knackered if it takes off over Livingston instead...


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

> Thats a good point Ian. Concorde is not on any schedule out of Manchester Airport. I know she was/is making an appearance for her farewell tour along with Glasgow, East Mids & a couple of other UK Airports, but i've never heard of her flying in or out of Manchester. Up until the 2nd runway was built, she'd have been unable to land as the first runway could only just accomodate 747's & Concorde needs about 1/2 as much again as a 747 or 777, hence why she can only land on 1 of Heathrow's runways.
> 
> Perhaps she made a visit for the Commonwealth games or the Jubilee etc. but defo only a very rare sight flying into or out of Manchester if she's ever been at all.


Are you sure about the runway length Paul?

She semi-regularly lands at Cardiff (and did so only a week or 2 ago) - and if you are telling me that our shithole of an airport rivals the best that Manchester and Heathrow can offer, I am only assume you've never flown from it.......

FYI the most recent landing was because of engine problems. Just up from Cardiff (Nantgarw actually) is a huge aerospace facility where they test and repair engines.......... I think this is the reason she's been here before, too 

I think its more likely that the people of Lancashire are too pikey to travel on Concorde, so there is little point in landing there


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

BTW - talking of unique events in the sky - does anyone remember the flyover of the Shuttle piggybacked onto an airliner? I seem to remember being in school, so most likely this was pre-1990.......


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

> Thats a good point Ian. Concorde is not on any schedule out of Manchester Airport. I know she was/is making an appearance for her farewell tour along with Glasgow, East Mids & a couple of other UK Airports, but i've never heard of her flying in or out of Manchester. Up until the 2nd runway was built, she'd have been unable to land as the first runway could only just accomodate 747's & Concorde needs about 1/2 as much again as a 747 or 777, hence why she can only land on 1 of Heathrow's runways.
> 
> Perhaps she made a visit for the Commonwealth games or the Jubilee etc. but defo only a very rare sight flying into or out of Manchester if she's ever been at all.


Very brief web search shows that both Concorde and 747's both need approx 11,000ft of runway to land/takeoff


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

BTW Paul, the length of the second Manchester runway is within a metre of the first 

Runway Length 06L/24R: 3048m x 48m
Runway Length 06R/24L: 3047m x 45m

Compare that to Cardiff:

Runway Length 12/30: 2354m x 46m

Its obvious that 11,000 ft is rather generous, as Cardiff is more like 8000ft!


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## Dubcat (Jun 10, 2002)

Waaaayyyyyyy too much time on your hands


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

> BTW Paul, the length of the second Manchester runway is within a metre of the first
> 
> Runway Length 06L/24R: 3048m x 48m
> Runway Length 06R/24L: 3047m x 45m
> ...


Me thinks your search has been in vain. IIRC, 1 metre is roughly 3ft, which would mean that both Manchesters runways are only just over 9000ft & yet many 747's use Manchester (PIA, BA, Malaysian & Emirates to name but a few). According to when the 2nd runway was built, is was at least 25% longer that the 1st runway. To further argue, i've flown into Heathrow on 747's many times & landed on each of the available runways, but according to 3 different BA captains, Concorde can only land on 1 particular runway due to the length of strip it requires.

I fly on BA's 1740 shuttle to Manchester out of Heathrow, at least twice a month & at around that time of day, there is usually a Concorde coming into land, hence why this flight often gets held up by a few extra minutes, as Concorde is always given priority landing rights on the only runway ot can land on.

I aint checking this out though, as some of us have work to do  ;D. Keep checking though & i'm sure you'll find facts elsewhere that match up more closely to my information


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## moley (May 14, 2002)

Perhaps someone with the new MS FlightSim can check it out 

Moley


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

The shuttle was ferried around on the back of a 747 - for its test flights/landings.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

This landed at Stansted (about 10 miles from where I live). We drove out to the country to see it come in and all the small lanes had hundreds of cars parked up.

An incredible sight that everyone wanted to go and see.

p.s. I saw Concorde take off from Lanzarote a couple of years ago. I was amazed that it was even there!!


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## donna_kebab (May 8, 2002)

> coming out of the supermarket tonight, loud rumbling in the sky,look up and its Concorde - Â a rare sight so low over Farnborough. Looked stunning with the setting sun shining on it as it climbed - what a noise too.
> 
> A sad sight as it'll be no more soon - if only BA would sell them to Virgin Â


Yep

Actullay at the moment its over Farnborough quite a lot, but as you say not for long, there are currently 2 scheduled flights a day from LHR and usually at least one passes over our house, its always pretty spectacular! During October though look out for it more often, there are farewell day trips around the UK for the next few weeks until its last trip on the 24th October SAD INDEED 

Donna (Part time Plane Spotter )


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

> Me thinks your search has been in vain. IIRC, 1 metre is roughly 3ft, which would mean that both Manchesters runways are only just over 9000ft & yet many 747's use Manchester (PIA, BA, Malaysian & Emirates to name but a few). According to when the 2nd runway was built, is was at least 25% longer that the 1st runway. To further argue, i've flown into Heathrow on 747's many times & landed on each of the available runways, but according to 3 different BA captains, Concorde can only land on 1 particular runway due to the length of strip it requires.
> 
> I fly on BA's 1740 shuttle to Manchester out of Heathrow, at least twice a month & at around that time of day, there is usually a Concorde coming into land, hence why this flight often gets held up by a few extra minutes, as Concorde is always given priority landing rights on the only runway ot can land on.
> 
> I aint checking this out though, as some of us have work to do  ;D. Keep checking though & i'm sure you'll find facts elsewhere that match up more closely to my information


My runway length information comes from the Website of the Liaison Group of UK Airport Consultative Committees - http://www.ukaccs.info/profiles.htm#MAN

Whatever your BA captains have told you about Concorde only being able to land on 1 runway at Heathrow (due to runway length), I'm afraid I don't believe them. 2 runways are of sufficient length.... Thats not to say that there might not be other reasons limiting Concorde to 1 specific runway, but from the data available, it certainly isn't a length issue

And I stand by the Manchester data too. Runway 2 is NOT 25% longer than runway 1. In 1981, Runway 1 was extended to 3048m - an extension of 244m. (the extension was officially opened by HRH Princess Anne in 1982). Yet prior to this (as early as 1974) a pier was built to enable 747s to dock. Runway 2 is officially listed as 3047m long, but Manchester's own website suggests it has a 150m start extension, but at best this adds approx 5%. (Statsitics gleaned from Manchester Airport's official website)

But anyway, none of this explains why Concorde was supposedly unable to land at Manchester Airport prior to the completetion of the 2nd runway. The length of Runway 2 is a moot point, really, as Concorde can (and DOES) land at Cardiff Airport, which is nearly 700m shorter!

2 of the 3 runways at Heathrow are more that 1km LONGER than Cardiff's only runway, whereas the 3rd is some 400m shorter.....

As for runway length required for 747 / Concorde etc - there are 3 determining factors - the weight of the airport, the temperature and the elevation - which is why there is variation between different places and guidelines. But directly from Air France's webiste, the following figures apply to Concorde:

Take-off runway length (with max. load) 3,600 meters

Landing runway length (with max. load) 2,200 meters

I hope this helps.......


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## Major Audi Parts Guru (May 7, 2002)

Over the years i have seen Concorde take off and land on both runways at Heathrow


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

This thread should be renamed to "Talking Runways - A Sad Sight"


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

or "Talking Bollocks" 

I should point out that I have no interest whatsoever in the relative lengths of Britain's runways, or their ability to receive various types of planes.....


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

> or "Talking Bollocks"
> 
> I should point out that I have no interest whatsoever in the relative lengths of Britain's runways, or their ability to receive various types of planes.....


Liar. You is a plane spotter you little monkey/ape. ;D


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

> My runway length information comes from the Website of the Liaison Group of UK Airport Consultative Committees - http://www.ukaccs.info/profiles.htm#MAN
> 
> Whatever your BA captains have told you about Concorde only being able to land on 1 runway at Heathrow (due to runway length), I'm afraid I don't believe them.
> 
> ...


Slander  British Airways Captians are not allowed to tell lies, only First & Senior First Officers  ;D

What has the weight of the airport got to do with it  ;D & as you're now the Oracle, please could you tell me the exact (in grams) weight of Manchester, Heathrow & Cardiff Airports.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

ummm - I think I meant weight of the plane 

Although 300,000 tonnes of concrete were used in making Manchester's 2nd runway, if that helps any?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

> ummm - I think I meant weight of the plane
> 
> Although 300,000 tonnes of concrete were used in making Manchester's 2nd runway, if that helps any?


*LOL* ;D 8)


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## Nimbus (Sep 20, 2002)

Slightly back on topic...

I just got back from a week in New York on Concorde this afternoon, and it really was the dogs ;D ;D

3 hrs 20 mins, mostly at mach 2.0 and I think 1360mph and 59,000ft, ( havent checked the pics yet..)

Just amazing !! 
Definately a once in a lifetime experience.. Very comfortable, loads of room, lovely food and champagne  and hardly noisy at all !
Bizarre that plenty of people on board didnt seem impressed at what an achievement Concorde was and is !

Just gutting to see her go..  [smiley=hanged.gif]

Toby

oh yeah, saw 3 TTs in NYC, all 180s :O

and yeah, I'm pretty stoked about the return trip 



> coming out of the supermarket tonight, loud rumbling in the sky,look up and its Concorde - Â a rare sight so low over Farnborough. Looked stunning with the setting sun shining on it as it climbed - what a noise too.
> 
> A sad sight as it'll be no more soon - if only BA would sell them to Virgin Â


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