# Finger jammer gets slammer



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Company director Timothy Hill, 67, fitted a laser jammer to his Range Rover and then gave police the finger as he drove past police safety cameras.

On three separate occasions in December 2017, Hill drove past mobile safety camera vans on the A19 near Easingwold, Thirsk and Crathorne in North Yorkshire. On all three occasions he was photographed gesturing at the camera with his middle finger, police also detected a laser jammer on his Range Rover.

When police tracked him down he lied about the location of his car and attempted to dispose of the laser jammer when he discovered he was being investigated. Although police were unable to ascertain his speed he was charged with perverting the course of justice and plead guilty at court. Yesterday at Teeside Crown Court he was convicted of perverting the course of justice and jailed for eight months. Hill was also banned from driving for a year.

The judge who jailed Hill said such actions "strike at the heart" of the justice system and his sentence must act as a deterrent to others.

Traffic Constable Andrew Forth, who led the investigation for North Yorkshire Police, said afterwards, "If you want to attract our attention, repeatedly gesturing at police camera vans with your middle finger while you're driving a distinctive car fitted with a laser jammer is an excellent way to do it."

Source: northyorkshire.police.uk

https://www.pocketgpsworld.com/Pokey-Fo ... r-8380.php


----------



## SLine_Tom (Oct 20, 2017)

Finger Whammer Laser Jammer gets Slammer :lol:


----------



## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

The guys a cock for sure but 8 months is way over the top compared to what real criminals get, most don't get that for GBH or burglary


----------



## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

YELLOW_TT said:


> The guys a cock for sure but 8 months is way over the top compared to what real criminals get, most don't get that for GBH or burglary


Hi, Fully agree, crazy action, but crazy jail sentence. :? Would have got less for stealing the car & driving with no insurance. 
Hoggy.


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

The offence was perverting the course of justice not speeding.


----------



## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

John-H said:


> The offence was perverting the course of justice not speeding.


I know John but are we now saying perverting the course of justice by fitting a jammer to your car is a worse crime then glassing someone in a bar robbing someone's house or stealing there car ?


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

How about glassing someone in anger and then trying to cover it up by pinning the blame on someone else and ruining their life by perverting the course of justice?

The glassing could be done in the heat of the moment in a bar fight and could even partly or wholly have been in self defense but the perversion of the course of justice would be deliberate and planned. Which is worse?

The guy was pretty premeditated and blatant about it. If he thought he could blast around with impunity he could have killed someone eventually.

They always come down heavy on this as it's an attack on the rule of law itself and they make an example of it.

If they just gave him the equivalent of a speeding fine it would been a green light to everyone to fit jammers as there would be nothing to lose.


----------



## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Burglary and car theft are pre planned in a lot of cases, I'm not saying he should have just been fined but IMOP 8 months in side when our prisons are already over crowded is way over the top there are many worse pre planned crimes that people don't get jail for including down loading and watching child pornographer


----------



## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

Should have hit him with a big fine or something.

8 months is a joke when you look at what car thieves get


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

I still think the danger is comparing speeding to burglary or car theft and downplaying the seriousness of perversion of the course of justice as if it shouldn't make much difference.

They are all crimes for which there is a clear sentence to deter. Perversion of the course of justice is a crime too but it's different in that the sentence often has to be much bigger than whatever it's connected with otherwise it would be encouraged in order to get away with the accompanying offense. That inevitably means the eventual severance becomes greater than some other offences which by themselves seem more serious but that's not comparing like with like.

Compare perverting the course of justice associated with speeding to perverting the course of justice associated with burglary or car theft. That would be a fairer comparison.


----------



## Stiff (Jun 15, 2015)

Suspended sentence would have made more sense in my eyes.


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

But then people might as well fit jammers as it's not taken seriously because you only risk a suspended sentence even it you take the Mick in the process. Hardly a deterrent :wink:


----------



## Stiff (Jun 15, 2015)

John-H said:


> But then people might as well "f̷i̷t̷ ̷j̷a̷m̷m̷e̷r̷s̷" as it's not taken seriously because you only risk a suspended sentence even it you take the Mick in the process. Hardly a deterrent :wink:


Now replace those words with "rob", "burgle", "GBH"... the list goes on. Usually all premeditated and usually all with more severe outcomes for the victim.

I fully understand where you're coming from and wholeheartedly agree with the ethos but can you see why people are getting their gears ground? Yes, the guy is a complete pillock and is probably stuck up his own ar5e but there is no '_real_' victim in this crime. The reason he was sent to jail was because he was winding them up and they didn't like it. They were determined to wipe the smile off his face and show him who's boss. And they did.
He also probably didn't stand up in court and come out with the old "my mum had just died and I was going through a really bad time", or "I've been clean for months but I just lapsed". He also probably didn't have 87 previous offences over a 2 year period to take into account either.
So yes, I think a suspended sentence would have been more appropriate so he would still be able to carry on with his life just as the thieving, violent, criminal scum that get a slapped wrist do.


----------



## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Stiff said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> > But then people might as well "f̷i̷t̷ ̷j̷a̷m̷m̷e̷r̷s̷" as it's not taken seriously because you only risk a suspended sentence even it you take the Mick in the process. Hardly a deterrent :wink:
> ...


Exactly


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

YELLOW_TT said:


> Stiff said:
> 
> 
> > John-H said:
> ...


Well you say there was no victim in his crimes but quite clearly there could have been. If he blasts around with impunity would you trust him to take as much care as you or I? Of course not.

If he did create a victim where then stands your point?

You could say that about everyone who gets caught in the act of breaking the law but gets saved from creating a victim. Should they be let off? Should the punishment reflect the chance of the outcome or the intent or recklessness in the action?

The reason he was jailed as I keep saying is perversion of the course of justice and the need to create a deterrent to stop others thinking you'd just get a slap on the wrist so you might as well try it. And it keeps getting compared with other crimes that don't include this crucial offence in point - that's not a valid comparison.

I don't think there's a law about pointing a finger as you pass a camera although that may have been a factor motivating the officer to flag it up for investigation.

Of course this sort of thing winds people up on car forums because cars create comrades against other groups and Mr Plod has a job being popular.

Do you think I'd have a point in suggesting that some possibly may secretly enjoy the idea of doing this and getting away with it? Heck, I did post it because it was funny and I also thought it would make an interesting discussion. I hope you liked the headline :wink:

I wonder if burglar forums hate posh car drivers? Mr Plod probably doesn't get on there either :lol:

Thankfully we have trained independent judges to handle these things. I expect it's a difficult job keeping a fair balance and keeping prejudicial feelings at bay. I wouldn't like to do it.


----------



## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

John-H said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> > But then people might as well "f̷i̷t̷ ̷j̷a̷m̷m̷e̷r̷s̷" as it's not taken seriously because you only risk a suspended sentence even it you take the Mick in the process. Hardly a deterrent :wink:
> ...


Exactly[/quote]
The reason he was jailed as I keep saying is perversion of the course of justice and the need to create a deterrent to stop others thinking you'd just get a slap on the wrist so you might as well try it. And it keeps getting compared with other crimes that don't include this crucial offence in point - that's not a valid comparison.

Thankfully we have trained independent judges to handle these things. I expect it's a difficult job keeping a fair balance and keeping prejudicial feelings at bay. I wouldn't like to do it.[/quote]

If he was jailed as a deterrent to stop others what adout the burglars car thief's etc who get a slap on the wrist ? What message are they being given ? Crack on your crime isn't to bad, destroying someones and perhaps mentally scaring them so they can never live there again is only worthy of a slap on the wrist 
As for the trained independent judges lol there was a case a few years ago in the local press of someone up for shop lifting they were well known to the courts and police with a list of convictions as long as your arm, and had £1500 of unpaid fines that they were just not bothering to pay the trained independent judge asked them if he quashed £1000 of his fines would he start to pay off the £500 WTF so his punishment for shoplifting was to have £1000 of fine written off 
I'm not saying the guy didn't deserve 8 months but if he did then burglers by the same token deserve 5 years minimum


----------



## Stiff (Jun 15, 2015)

John-H said:


> Well you say there was no victim in his crimes but quite clearly there _*could*_ have been.


_*Could*_ doesn't really cut the mustard here does it? Things _*could*_ happen at any given time in any given place, roads being a particularly high potential for accidents, hence victims. But it didn't.



John-H said:


> If he did create a victim where then stands your point?


Depends on the severity of the victim really, but yes, if bad enough then it warrants a jail sentence. But he didn't. So suspended would have been more appropriate. (Imho)



John-H said:


> You could say that about everyone who gets caught in the act of breaking the law but gets saved from creating a victim. Should they be let off? Should the punishment reflect the chance of the outcome or the intent or recklessness in the action?


No, of course not. I just think they've gone overboard with this one to prove a point. (ie "f+ck with us and we'll f+ck with you")



John-H said:


> The reason he was jailed as I keep saying is perversion of the course of justice and the need to create a deterrent to stop others thinking you'd just get a slap on the wrist so you might as well try it. And it keeps getting compared with other crimes that don't include this crucial offence in point - that's not a valid comparison.


The other crimes that keep getting compared with 'perversion of the course of justice' are sometimes far worse in severity, so yes, I think it's an extremely valid comparison.



John-H said:


> I don't think there's a law about pointing a finger as you pass a camera although that *may* have been a factor motivating the officer to flag it up for investigation.


Ya think!?











John-H said:


> Of course this sort of thing winds people up on car forums because cars create comrades against other groups and Mr Plod has a job being popular.


I have the utmost respect for Mr Plod in every sense, I really do and think 99% of the time they do a fantastic, mostly thankless, job. But the sentence wasn't handed to him by Mr Plod. It was down to some power-tripping judge that probably let off some repeat offender earlier in the day with a suspended sentence (and the day before etc etc)



John-H said:


> Do you think I'd have a point in suggesting that some possibly may secretly enjoy the idea of doing this and getting away with it?


I wouldn't doubt that for a minute











John-H said:


> Heck, I did post it because it was funny and I also thought it would make an interesting discussion. I hope you liked the headline :wink:


I did indeed enjoy the headline. Very droll. 



John-H said:


> I wonder if burglar forums hate posh car drivers? Mr Plod probably doesn't get on there either :lol:


Burglar forums!? :-o I wonder if you have to hack into them to join? :lol:



John-H said:


> Thankfully we have trained independent judges to handle these things. I expect it's a difficult job keeping a fair balance and keeping prejudicial feelings at bay. I wouldn't like to do it.


I'd love to do it. There certainly wouldn't be as many vermin on the streets. And there would be more openings for prison officers.


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

YELLOW_TT said:


> ...
> I'm not saying the guy didn't deserve 8 months but if he did then burgers by the same token deserve 5 years minimum


Burglars who get convicted for perverting the course of justice may well do.



Stiff said:


> ...
> I'd love to do it. There certainly wouldn't be as many vermin on the streets. And there would be more openings for prison officers.


You'd get trained first and have to follow home office sentencing guidelines. Except I believe in the case of perversion of the course of justice which I think has more sentencing freedom due to the variable nature of the offence.


----------



## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

The top and bottom of it is the system and the people who run it are not bothered about crimes against the average man in the street but god help you if you are the average man in the street and commit a crime against the system, if your a lord MP or the like it's a totally different matter as was proved with the MPs expenses fiddling a few years ago


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

I think the law is not perfect but the people involved in dealing with it have a better perspective than any of us who sit on the rarely engaged and much offended margin.

I don't think for one moment that the law favors lords in regards to the case in point so what's that got to do with it?


----------



## Stiff (Jun 15, 2015)

Yet this guy avoids prison









https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/uk/autopilot ... m=referral


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

He admitted the offence and didn't try to pervert the course of justice.


----------



## jjg (Feb 14, 2010)

Agree with yellow TT

This chap lied about where his car was and attempted to dispose of the jammer. Jailed for Perverting the course of justice.

8 months is about fair, he'll serve 2. (Burglars etc should get a minimum of 5 years, per offence, in my view. perhaps I could ask to be the next home secretary).


----------



## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

The joke's on the public actually. Eight months and guess who's paying for his stay? The tax payer. Here in Swissyland, they fine you based on your income, at least for high earners.

A driver who hit headlines around the world for getting clocked in Switzerland at 290km/h (180mph) faces a world record fine of a million francs. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/driver-fac ... e/23091098

Freekin' idiot. Just a quick drive north to Germany would have prevented that. Idiot.


----------



## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

SwissJetPilot said:


> The joke's on the public actually. Eight months and guess who's paying for his stay? The tax payer. Here in Swissyland, they fine you based on your income, at least for high earners.
> 
> A driver who hit headlines around the world for getting clocked in Switzerland at 290km/h (180mph) faces a world record fine of a million francs. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/driver-fac ... e/23091098
> 
> Freekin' idiot. Just a quick drive north to Germany would have prevented that. Idiot.


Or maybe to protect his kids inheritance, a slow drive to Germany :lol:


----------

