# DIY Big Brakes! HOWTO



## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

One more trackday for this season (if it's not raining...) and next season I want to have proper stopping power. OEM 225 setup is rubbish on track. After upgrading fluids, pads, brakes lines and discs they certainly got better. Then I tried a car on track with proper brakes and that was a mistake. Now I want that progressive braking force and stiff pedal feel.

If money were not an issue I'd get AP Racing or Stoptech setup, well it is an issue so I'm once again trying to do it myself. Last time with FMIC it was almost success (still without aliens... and MOT getting closer)

Found out that TT master cylinder is not too big. V6 has 2 x 41mm pistons and 225 has one 56mm piston. So if you go for 6 pot Brembo caliper (as I decided) you have to make sure it has 30mm - 34mm - 38mm pistons. There are models of this caliper with bigger piston sizes and then you get in trouble with the pedal travel.

Sourced these








I'll take them to pieces and get more photos tomorrow. They are from Q7 TDI, should have right size pistons...

Wow these are heavy, I'm already thinking this is an overkill (yep that is kilos...)









To be continued...


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## Fictorious (Sep 15, 2009)

Those are rather large calipers I must say.


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## $catz (Jun 4, 2008)

6 kgs for a caliper??? bloody ell.


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Looks like the calipers of a Touareg or a Cayenne S....


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Measured the pistons and I got the right calipers!! These calipers are not expensive, paid less than £300 with pads that have lots of life. I'm going to paint these red with VHT (primer, paint and clear coat), that stuff worked great on my DP and exhaust. They got special paint made just for calipers too.

More photos









































I was thinking to put Ferodo DS2500 pads (FCP1626), but as the pads are so big that means that they also cost a fortune. 243€ is the cheapest I've found. So maybe I use the pads that came with calipers first.


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

Wow seems like you've found a source for some good stopping power
What discs you going to use?


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Grahamstt said:


> Wow seems like you've found a source for some good stopping power
> What discs you going to use?


Going to use mk4 R32 Golf / mk1 V6 TT discs (334x32mm) as for those there are adapter available.

*You could do this BBK for less than £500*. EBC discs are £138 and adapters+bolts £70.

I'm trying to source 2 piece discs as I'd like to compensate the weight of the calipers.


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## Fictorious (Sep 15, 2009)

That's a good price for 6 pots, you can get 4 pot 996 calipers for around £400-450 once you've sorted discs, carriers & lines so you've done a good job.


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

I already have the V6 disc and callipers but like you say they're bloody heavy
2 piece would be good if cheap enough
Are the callipers ally cos the std V6 are cast iron and f*****g heavy.
Graham


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Grahamstt said:


> Are the callipers ally cos the std V6 are cast iron and f*****g heavy.


I'd say that they are some kind of alloy as if they were cast iron they would weight even more. The pads are surprisingly heavy, probably one third of the whole weight. I can weight just the calipers to see how much they are without the pads.


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

Grahamstt said:


> I already have the V6 disc and callipers but like you say they're bloody heavy
> 2 piece would be good if cheap enough
> Are the callipers ally cos the std V6 are cast iron and f*****g heavy.
> Graham


ECS do a 2 peice disk for the R32 brakes, which i've had on for a couple of weeks now... Bloody brilliant, and 2 peice looks the dogs nads through the wheels...

only downside is i had to get myself the bigger ECS rear disks to match...

but so worth it !!!


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

ECS got all you need, but do you know how much are spare rotors for those hats? That is the only thing that worries me on those, well you also have to add taxes to those prices. I'm trying to get CompBrake to do me hats to fit their 335x32mm rotor , but I'm struggling to get the measurements(offset etc) for the discs. It looks like I have to buy a set take measurements and then sell them... or just go with regular discs.

Tony pics of your discs back and front would be nice


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

nate42 said:


> ECS got all you need, but do you know how much are spare rotors for those hats? That is the only thing that worries me on those, well you also have to add taxes to those prices. I'm trying to get CompBrake to do me hats to fit their 335x32mm rotor , but I'm struggling to get the measurements(offset etc) for the discs. It looks like I have to buy a set take measurements and then sell them... or just go with regular discs.
> 
> Tony pics of your discs back and front would be nice


 Here's my ECS brakes on the car.
Rears which are now drilled as well as grooved I believe.








and off the car.








Fronts on car.


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## bak (Feb 10, 2010)

les said:


> nate42 said:
> 
> 
> > ECS got all you need, but do you know how much are spare rotors for those hats? That is the only thing that worries me on those, well you also have to add taxes to those prices. I'm trying to get CompBrake to do me hats to fit their 335x32mm rotor , but I'm struggling to get the measurements(offset etc) for the discs. It looks like I have to buy a set take measurements and then sell them... or just go with regular discs.
> ...


Beautiful Big Brakes! :lol:


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks Les for the pics, ECS is tempting but then this is not a cheap BBK DIY 

Adapters arrived today, looks like good build quality

















Both calipers without pads are 9kg, so around 4,5kg per caliper. I'm not sure how accurate that scale is...









Just drove a 2010 Cupra R, really good pedal feel and the brakes really bite. Locked the wheels easily (ABS kicks in), rears were not vented tough...


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

Les 
What dia are your discs, fronts look bigger than V6. and I'm looking at a way of using the defunct fronts to be machined as a large conversion for the rear   should be interesting - and cheap
Graham


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

Grahamstt said:


> Les
> What dia are your discs, fronts look bigger than V6. and I'm looking at a way of using the defunct fronts to be machined as a large conversion for the rear   should be interesting - and cheap
> Graham


 Here's all the info on them as per the TTshop.

http://www.thettshop.co.uk/performance. ... uct=600428


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Decals arrived 100x25mm in size. Ordered the paints already, waiting for them to arrive...


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Paints arrived VHT SP-118, SP-731 and SP-730. Primer, paint and clear gloss coat.








I hope I have time in the weekend to at least clean, degrease and prime the calipers


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

First light coat of primer









Then two thin coats of paint and one almost wet coat. VHT is easy to paint enough pressure in the can and good nozzle. So making an even coat was easy.









Next decals and then clear coat. After that I think I'm going to give the calipers a little heat gun. It should be baked to make the paint chemical resistant but heat gun should do the job...


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Decals and clear coat is on! Result is amazing...!!! I never thought they would come out looking like this


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Now to the difficult part the discs... I've done some reading and found out that the individual that designed these adapters were a bright one. You can turn these around and this way you can choose between 334mm and 350mm discs! Now that is some clever engineering there.

334mm position








350mm position








334mm position attached to hub (not my picture found from the web) Looks little tight to go other way round...








But it goes 350mm way too (not my picture found from the web)








And this is how it is achieved








Pads are 65mm high so discs should have at least same pad swept area









That seems to be little problematic as most of the 2 piece discs have at most 60mm swept area. Well better start looking at least I got two sizes to look for 334mm and 350mm  334mm preferred as I'd like to be able to use 17" wheels also. Rotor hats is the next problem but lets focus on the rotors first...


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## mattshields2004 (Oct 24, 2008)

Those are some awesome stoppers! 

Good work.


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

So far no luck on finding 334mm or 335mm rotors with 65mm swept area 
Found some 350mm 2 piece discs made for S4, they could probably sell just the rotors without the hat...

Stock 345mm(S4) vs. *JHM 350mm 2-piece for the Porsche Cayenne Caliper*
-Rotor OD: Stock = 345mm(13.6")S4, JHM = 350mm(13.8") - .2" larger
-Rotor Thickness: Stock = 30mm(1.18")S4, JHM = 32mm(1.26") - thicker
-Rotor Weight: Stock = 25lbs(each)S4, JHM = 17lbs(each) - 32% LIGHTER, 8lbs less each
-Rotor Cooling Air-gap: Stock = 9.5mm(.374")S4, JHM = 18.5mm(.728") - LARGER for better cooling
-Rotor Cooling Center Fin Design: Stock = Straight Fin, JHM = Airfoil - MORE EFFICIENT for better cooling
-Bolt pattern: - SAME (fits like an OEM rotor would)









*R32/V6TT OEM discs seem more tempting all the time* as those pads are high enough








All tough they look tiny next to those that go to Brembo calipers









Also I don't know the offset to make the hats... So buying the OEM discs I could get the dimensions and make those 350mm 2 piece discs later.


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## hasoon0 (Jun 11, 2009)

nate42 said:


> Thanks Les for the pics, ECS is tempting but then this is not a cheap BBK DIY
> 
> Adapters arrived today, looks like good build quality
> 
> ...


Would you be able to advise me on where i should buy carriers for the porsche cayenne 6 pot calipers? im guessing they are the same as yours. ive just bought the calipers and on my way to having a big brake kit done.


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

hasoon0 said:


> Would you be able to advise me on where i should buy carriers for the porsche cayenne 6 pot calipers? im guessing they are the same as yours. ive just bought the calipers and on my way to having a big brake kit done.


I bought these from ebay.co.uk from seller named jack-the-lad-uk, but as the brakes are not in the car yet all I can tell you is that they seem to be good quality. We will see how they fit (there shouldn't be any problem but you never know). ZR17 and ZR18 calipers use different adapters so this is something that you need to check when you order yours.


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Went to an open practice to do the last laps for this season. Still some meat left in the old brakes and tyres so it was nice to give them the final punishment. Here is some footage (Endurance Class Civic chase)





Brakes felt spongy as usual and even weaker than before, maybe the fluids are getting old. Also the car didn't pull as it used to, some hesitation at the higher revs. After the session ESP light didn't go on any more so I read the fault codes:
---------------------------------------
16486 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70): Signal too Low
P0102 - 35-00 - -
---------------------------------------
00810 - Sensor 1/2 for Brake Pressure
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

So MAF is dead, tried to log it but it gives you zero point something no matter what are the revs are. I try to clean it with the CRC cleaner, lets see if that helps. If not then a new MAF  









Brake fluid level was quite low, so I think the other fault has to do with that. I will top up and if that's not enough bleed the brakes when I change to winter tyres and lets see if that clear the error.

For brake fluid Motul RBF600 of course :wink:


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## Jurpo (Jun 24, 2009)

Did you consider Ksport kit http://www.ksport.co.uk/index.asp


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Jurpo said:


> Did you consider Ksport kit http://www.ksport.co.uk/index.asp


I've seen those KSports (8 and 10 pots?!?! I think that is just a marketing trick...) also Wilwood, D2 and CompBrake. They seem like a good deal as they are cheaper than for example Brembo, AP and StopTech kits. When you go to a tuning show you see cars with D2 and Ksport, when you go to a race track you see cars with Brembo and AP brakes. I made my own conclusions :wink: One important thing for me was to be able to get spare parts at reasonable price for the brakes.


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## Super Josh (May 29, 2009)

nate42 said:


> When you go to a tuning show you see cars with D2 and Ksport, when you go to a race track you see cars with Brembo and AP brakes. I made my own conclusions


How very true 

Josh


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## Jurpo (Jun 24, 2009)

Well there is a lot of info in ScoobyNet.http://bbs.scoobynet.com/search.php?searchid=3590456

I can tell this, tempting very tempting..


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Little update. Decided to go with 334mm Zimmermann discs from the forum group buy (Thanks John-H), they seemed to be best bang for the buck. They have "two piece" design and should be better for hard use and lighter than one piece discs.

Still some air in the brakes, so need to bleed them once more. It's strange just before you stop it feel like ESP is kicking in and rattling the brake pedal... Probably still air in the ABS pump or something. Error codes have cleared so that is a relief.

I've decided that I'm going to do the rears also, just bigger discs as with TT's weight distribution the front does most of the braking. Pics of the discs will follow as they arrive...


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

Which discs are you going to use on the rear, all the ones I'v seen are overpriced so I'm looking at machining down the std fronts but haven't tried that yet but the size seems perfect
Should be a good mod if it works :roll: :roll:


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## Fictorious (Sep 15, 2009)

Grahamstt said:


> Which discs are you going to use on the rear, all the ones I'v seen are overpriced so I'm looking at machining down the std fronts but haven't tried that yet but the size seems perfect
> Should be a good mod if it works :roll: :roll:


Theoretically you could use any disc you like as long as you had the calipers matched with carriers to fit, ie you could use the existing front setup on the rear if you had someone make you a carrier for it to fit.


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

Yes thats right, but I thought that if you've uprated the fronts you would have the originals going spare, so after comparing them the fronts will machine down in thickness to give a "new" surface and they will machine down on diameter to about 285mm or more     
Also the reasoning by re-using the rear callipers is that the hand brake is still there without any major mods.
Not to mention it should be cheap but effective :wink: 
Graham


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

I've been looking the rear discs + adapters options so far I've found:

CompBrake 330mm - £470
ECS 308mm - $640 + customs tax
STaSIS 298mm - $895 + customs tax
Tarox 300mm - £725

As we can see all of them are pretty expensive, CompBrake being the only one "close" to reasonable. I read somewhere that you can use discs from a B6 S4, that have to be re-pcd to 5x100. Those discs are 300x22mm and there are adapters for those to use with B5 A4 that might have same calipers at the rear than TT.

I sent a PM to a forum member that should know something about this. I let you know if it turns out good. Another group buy coming???


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Discs arrived, here some pics
















































10kg per disc, no idea what a regular 1.8 TT front disc weights...

My old discs are really rusty from the edge of the disc, so I thought I think I'm going to paint these black from the edges. That might slow down the rusting in the cooling channels.


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

I couldn't find the measurements of these discs from the mighty Internet, so let's add some info if somebody else needs it.
Golf mk4 R32 / Audi mk1 TT V6 front discs 334x32mm measurements as shown in the picture below:
OFFSET: -4,2 mm
FACE THICKNESS: 7,3 mm
CLEARANCE I.D.: 146 mm
CENTER HOLE DIAMETER: 65 mm


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## Jurpo (Jun 24, 2009)

nate42 said:


> Discs arrived, here some pics
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks just like Oem disc. Intresting disc/bell connection. Floating two piece?
225 disc is 8kg
Lot of extra disc for that 2kgs


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Looked all the available rear kits and noticed that the discs in the pictures have noticeably less offset than the original. That is because the adapter is just flat piece of metal that moves caliper out on two dimensions. Tarox have little more complicated looking adapter








But again the disc has very little offset.

Measured the carrier today and the looks like the bolts are 95mm apart. Going from 256 to 300mm discs we need the carriers out by 22mm. I don't know the distance between carrier bolts on B5 A4, if it is also 95mm then those adapters that I posted earlier cold work. But I think it is easier to find out rest of the measurements and make them.

Adapter thickness is same as offset difference between stock and Audi S4 (B6) rear disc.

Anyone agree with me?


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

Bum!!
Thats my theory out, I think your right about the thickness of the adapter taking away some of the offset - or adding to it if the adapter mounts the other side of the existing lugs.
Adapters that dont affect the offset are another possibility but might be more expensive :x 
Graham


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Ok, made up my mind and I'm taking the hard way again. So ordered a set of stock and S4 rear discs to get the offset measurements. TT is going to garage for the winter because a reasonable family car has arrived  This means that I can keep the TT off the road until I get the rear adapters made right.

Also found out that local MOT station will dyno your brakes for 19€, so I will do before - after dyno runs to see the difference. I can measure 60-0 mph with G-Tech too, but there is still lot to do before that...


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Discs arrived today, now I can take the needed measurements to design the adapters for rear brake carriers.

S4 rear vs TT rear








Need to drill the bolt holes bigger, center hole is 2mm bigger on S4 disc so no need to work on that








256mm - 300mm - 334mm








And as usual weighted the dics, S4 ones little heavier as expected...


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Little setback, offset difference between stock and S4 rear discs is only 2mm. I was was hoping it to be a little more. Easiest way to solve it is put a 3mm spacer behind the S4 disc. This way you can make the caliper carrier adapter from 5mm thick steel plate. S4 discs face is 1.6mm thicker than stock, so all together your tire will be out 4.6mm compared to stock setup. That is perfectly OK as you will probably want to take your wheels even further out...

Maximum diameter for a spacer that fits behind the brake disc is 130mm, center bore has to be drilled bigger also. Extra precision is needed when fitting to get everything lined. A drop of glue to fix the spacer behind the brake disc should make things easier.

With this setup the adapter bracket would be this simple


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## UR_TT (Nov 8, 2008)

Super Josh said:


> nate42 said:
> 
> 
> > When you go to a tuning show you see cars with D2 and Ksport, when you go to a race track you see cars with Brembo and AP brakes. I made my own conclusions
> ...


[/quote][/quote]

+1 on that.

Loving the effort you are putting into this Nate, keep it up! And when you are done, send this thread and you FMIC thread to the "knowledgebase" section. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

But another thing you might have noticed is that almost no "race" TT have uppgraded rear brakes. I shift my rear pads once every 4th front shift. Most I´ve talked to thinks that it´s only more unsprung weight that really isn´t do that much more for the stopping power.

//U


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

UR_TT said:


> But another thing you might have noticed is that almost no "race" TT have uppgraded rear brakes. I shift my rear pads once every 4th front shift. Most I´ve talked to thinks that it´s only more unsprung weight that really isn´t do that much more for the stopping power.
> 
> //U


I've noticed too that rear brakes don't do much, did some temperature measurements from the discs right after session and fronts were almost 300 and rears only 150 degrees of Celsius. I have used stock pads in the back and Ferodo DS2500 on the front, I think this makes things even worse as friction difference only grows the hotter the brakes get.

Maybe it's just the shitty OEM pads I've used at the back or TT is really front bias from the factory.

Found this from the web, its for VW GOLF MKIV.








Did the same calculations for TT and the setup in this thread








As you can see going to S4 rears the balance stays at OEM level.

Of course these are just calculations that gives you a ruff idea. Didn't quite figure out how ECS calculated Effective Radius (center point of friction between pad and discs) so I used center point of pad. I believe that stopping wise pad size doesn't matter, it has more to do with heat distribution in the caliper.

Well I think this starts to go way too nerdy [smiley=book2.gif] and everybody is falling a sleep :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Well I think this starts to go way too nerdy [smiley=book2.gif] and everybody is falling a sleep :lol: :lol: :lol:[/quote]

certainly not !!! loving this thread,, reminds me of all the hassles i have experienced modding and building various cars / bikes over the years !!! and like most of us on here, i would love to do a 4 wheel big brake job on my TT ,, but the £2k price on the brembos is a bit scarry !!!!


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## UR_TT (Nov 8, 2008)

Well then I´m a big nerd!

Great file, anyway now all we need to sort out is unsprung weight on all the kits. 
Formula =most amount of brakepower for the least amount of weight. Hey we found a new messurement, brake to weight ratio...... :roll: Come on Nate we need one more excelfile!


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

UR_TT said:


> Well then I´m a big nerd!
> 
> Great file, anyway now all we need to sort out is unsprung weight on all the kits.
> Formula =most amount of brakepower for the least amount of weight. Hey we found a new messurement, brake to weight ratio...... :roll: Come on Nate we need one more excelfile!


It's pretty simple, to get the maximum braking power you need to have your point of friction as close to tires contact surface as possible. So in theory if you fit lower profile tires you get more stopping power. Every component should be as light as possible, but heavy enough to suck the heat generated in braking.

These SUV calipers are not ideal as the pads are so high and they are heavy. If you look at the pad sizes in Ferodo homepage PDF LINK you will notice that for example Porsche GT3 and WRC cars use ~50mm high pad. This way they can use lighter rotor (most of the disc being alloy bell) and get the point of friction as far away as possible.

I'm sure that AP kit that you are after ticks all the boxes for best brake/weight ratio. Your job is to put as small rims over them as possible and some sticky low profile rubber. As for rears all of those ready rear kits are two piece so probably lighter than OEM setup.


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Tiny update. Used my favourite paint VHT to paint the rear discs. Got the 3mm spacers to put behind the discs, center bore 76mm and outside diameter 126.5mm. Ordered 75/130mm so not exactly what you can call a precision parts, but costed £4 a pair so I'm not going to complain as that size works for my needs.








Also ordered some 304 stainless steel plates in size 120mm x 52mm x 5mm to make the rear adapters, those haven't arrived yet.


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## Jurpo (Jun 24, 2009)

How is that G-tech gauge? 
Any experience with that. Consistency?


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Jurpo said:


> How is that G-tech gauge?
> Any experience with that. Consistency?


G-Tech is accurate, there are couple of things tough. Power and torque is calculated from the total weight that you enter. When you accelerate tail drops and nose goes up, there is a factor for that also. I've done runs with both G-tech and RaceChrono on board and times were almost identical.

You can download the software for free from their website it's called G-tech PASS RR 2.0
Here are a couple of files for you to get the idea what it can do for you.
View attachment Gtech.zip

Use full if you use same piece of road and settings every time, so for comparing remaps and brakes it is a good device.


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## joes14 (Nov 9, 2010)

My god this post is awesome. Over here in Virginia, love your forums in the UK! Picking up my 225 TT in a couple days and have been scouring this forum soaking up all I can! Coming from a number of japanese cars to the Audi will be a bit of a culture shock but it seems like it has so much to offer!

Nate, this write up is great, and I can't wait to get more pics and more specs for the complete brake swap. I'm just like you in that I like to build my own parts for my own set up!

Joe


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks Joe and welcome to forum!

Adapter steel arrived and bought drills needed to do the adapters and discs (10mm and 15mm).








Bought also new brake lines to front. Basic TT set will do as it has banjo connectors in the caliper end. For my disappointment there were no banjo bolts in the box?!?!? Had to order separately, M10x1.0 are the right ones for these front calipers (if I measured right, we'll see when they arrive).








Removed the rear calipers to take the measurements for rear adapters. Looks like there is enough play in brake lines and hand brake cable to take the caliper out 22mm.

Then the most important thing in a brake system, brake pads. I thought that it is the last place to save, so bought Ferodo DS2500 both front and back. Found good deal from http://www.rallyshop.it, but it might take a while to get them. Used PayPal even tough I have 100% faith in Italians :wink:

When I get the pads I can install the rears. Fronts have to wait until spring as I'm told they don't fit under 17" rims.


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## UR_TT (Nov 8, 2008)

nate42 said:


> . Found good deal from http://www.rallyshop.it, but it might take a while to get them. Used PayPal even tough I have 100% faith in Italians :wink:


Cestra Racing are solid, have bought a lot of stuff from them never any problems. Has Umberto called yet?


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

UR_TT said:


> nate42 said:
> 
> 
> > . Found good deal from http://www.rallyshop.it, but it might take a while to get them. Used PayPal even tough I have 100% faith in Italians :wink:
> ...


Hehehee got email from Umberto that it takes a while to get the front pads as they are not that common, should be here next week.

Banjo bolts came and I can confirm that for these calipers you need M10x1.0, they were a bit too long so I need to shorten those a bit as the hole in the calipers is shaped to take little different shape bolt.








New banjo style hose vs Q7 original


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## nathan88 (Oct 18, 2009)

You post interesting threads


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Brake pads finally arrived








As you can see the rears look really tiny compared to fronts. Orginal Pagid pad on top for comparison. Rear pads came with four bolts, I assume these are some bolts you need to replace when you change the rears.

Pads on the discs








Rear discs have now also the 5x100 pattern drilled to them.

Did the rear adapters too, that 304 stainless steel is ridiculously hard stuff. Basic metal drill was just polishing it, had to use an expensive drill to get trough the plate. So normal steel plate painted would have been a smarter choice...









Car is at storage for the winter but I have to check if there is a place to trial fit the rears to see how it goes.


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Did some trial fitting and looks like this might work. Some notes
-Had to loosen the handbrake cable from center console to get the caliper further out
-Caliper bracket to adapter bolts have to be shortened about 5mm
-Caliper still fits just behind stock 17" rims
-Didn't have to undo brake lines
-I need a brake piston rewind tool
-Brake disc shield needs to be removed/modded (Does it come of by just removing those three screws?)
-Disc and spacer behind it centers only with bolts

Have to buy a threaded 1 meter M14 x 1.5 stud and cut five studs from it. With those I can hopefully get the spacer-disc-spacer-wheel pack nicely centered. If not I have to find someone who can make a special centering spacer behind the disc.

I those pictures bracket and caliper bolts are not tightened, that is wy it looks like the caliper is too far away from the disc edge.


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## l3ttx (Oct 15, 2006)

nate42
Have to buy a threaded 1 meter M14 x 1.5 stud and cut five studs from it. With those I can hopefully get the spacer-disc-spacer-wheel pack nicely centered. If not I have to find someone who can make a special centering spacer behind the disc.
[/quote said:


> If you drill your disc in the correct place for the original disc locating grub screw this should hold the disc and spacer in place until you get the wheels bolted on.


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## DARREN (Jun 12, 2009)

Nate please could you confirm the bolt sizes and spec you used for mounting the adaptors to the hub and the calipers to the adaptors.


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

l3ttx said:


> nate42 said:
> 
> 
> > Have to buy a threaded 1 meter M14 x 1.5 stud and cut five studs from it. With those I can hopefully get the spacer-disc-spacer-wheel pack nicely centered. If not I have to find someone who can make a special centering spacer behind the disc.
> ...


I think one of those old bolt holes are just in the spot of that disc locating grub screw. Also would be quite hard to measure where to exactly drill that hole. There should also be two of those holes to secure it to exact point.


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

DARREN said:


> Nate please could you confirm the bolt sizes and spec you used for mounting the adaptors to the hub and the calipers to the adaptors.


Adapters to car are M10 bolts so the holes in the adapters are 10mm. Bolts thread should be 25mm long. Holes (no threads in these holes) are 90mm apart.
Caliper carrier holes have threads, but regular M10 bolts didn't go to carriers so those use M10 fine thread bolts, didn't measure what thread they were.


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## DARREN (Jun 12, 2009)

Thanks nate. Do you know how long the caliper carrier bolts are? Did the person who made the adaptors send you the bolts?


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

DARREN said:


> Thanks nate. Do you know how long the caliper carrier bolts are? Did the person who made the adaptors send you the bolts?


I'd say the thread in them is about 20-25mm, I can measure them next time. I made the adapters and bought those bolts :wink: The ones in the picture are basic 8.8 grade bolts. Probably I try to buy somewhere harder bolts to be 100% safe.


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## DARREN (Jun 12, 2009)

It is the front we are on about yea?


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

DARREN said:


> It is the front we are on about yea?


Heheheee well no I was talking about the rear all the time :lol: 
In front the bolts that came with adapters are M16x2.0 and thread is 50mm long. I haven't taken the front apart yet so can't tell about the adapter to hub bolts.


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

These should help me get the (spacer+discs+spacer+wheel) package nicely centered in the rear. The first part of the thread goes in to the hub and the longer part is for the wheel nut. Anyone tried these on a TT?








I don't trust these 100% (doesn't look that hard metal), so probably going to use just for fitting and testing. Leaving two per side would make changing tyres much easier tough.

If this doesn't work I found a company that makes custom spacers. They can make me a spacer that centers the S4 disc to TT hub, for that I need to remove the hub and send it with the disc to them. So I hope I don't have to go that route.


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## UR_TT (Nov 8, 2008)

nate42 said:


> I don't trust these 100% (doesn't look that hard metal), so probably going to use just for fitting and testing. Leaving two per side would make changing tyres much easier tough.
> 
> If this doesn't work I found a company that makes custom spacers. They can make me a spacer that centers the S4 disc to TT hub, for that I need to remove the hub and send it with the disc to them. So I hope I don't have to go that route.


Hi Nate,
I have studs on my TT instead of bolts, two things to mind. Quality of stud should be 12.9 nothing less, if you want to sleep good at night. :wink: And remember that the nuts for aftermarket wheels are coned and for Audi OEM they are round. High strength loctite or simillar for mounting the studs, should withstand high tempatures aswell. 
Bought mine here, http://www.forza.se/ look under "väghållning"

A firend of mine has a mechanical works shop he should be able to whip out any spacer you need, just provide him with the relevant figures. He´s not cheap but always provieds imacualte work. 
http://www.mh-gtr.com/
or pm me and you´ll get his cell nr.

And a Merry X-mas to you Nate!

//U


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## Predator (Dec 23, 2008)

good job , when we will see the finish result ?


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Predator said:


> good job , when we will see the finish result ?


When the snow melts and we have a meter of it at the moment... :x

One side in the rear is done so we know that the parts fit but that doesn't necessarily mean that this works. I don't know if centering with just bolts is enough for the disc. I will do some heavy braking when the brakes are on and take some measurements. Also a couple of inspections that nothing comes loose is in order as there is no room for mistakes with brakes.

Before vs after








Clearance with 17" rims








New pads and cheap studs to help fitting








Looking good









Parts n materials:
4 pcs M10 bolts with 25mm thread, these should be hard bolts 10.9 or 12.9 ~10€
4 pcs nuts to those M10 bolts ~5€
2 pcs steel plates 120 x 52 x 5 mm ~10€
2 pcs Audi S4 (B6 2003-2005) 300x22mm rear discs ~70€
2 pcs 3mm 5x100 spacers ~15€
wheel studs for centering ~15€

*So rear all in around 125 €* plus what your local machine shop takes for re-drilling the discs and making the adapters and spacers (with studs you could maybe use 3mm washers behind the discs too...).

I could leave the heat shield, just bent it a little. Rewinding the piston back in was a little hassle, the tool I bought for the job sucked.


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

TT is finally out from the winter storage and I will put the rest of the brake bits on this weekend. Found a solution for centering the rear discs.








Found these 67.1 to 57.1 adapters, normally these are used for wheels but I recon they work also for brake disc. These are plastic so modding the height is easy if needed.








Had to buy four, but only two are needed at the rear.


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## UR_TT (Nov 8, 2008)

nate42 said:


> TT is finally out from the winter storage and I will put the rest of the brake bits on this weekend. Found a solution for centering the rear discs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking real nice Nate.

On the plastic rings, will they withstand the heat from the hub/brakedisc? Is it hotther at the center of the hub than where they usally land with the wheel? 
(if to hot you already have two extras :wink: )

//U


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Rings worked nicely, they made the fitting easier. I will drive the brakes hot a couple of times and then open them up just to be safe. Then I will see if the rings can take the heat. Ring is only 1cm from its normal location so should be fine.








Had to take the sharp corner away from the centring ring and bend the heat shield back.








Washers "glued" with copper grease.








and finally a brake disc (well still a 10mm spacer on top of that...)

*FRONT INSTALLATION*
Stock brakes had Zimmermann discs, Ferodo DS2500 pads, HEL stainless steel brake lines and Motul RBF 600 brake fluid. Managed to cook the brake fluid on track and the brakes were in shocking state after the abuse.








Notice that one of the brake pads have cracked and somehow melted back to the dics...???








Discs were cracked from almost every hole... So stock brakes and track use don't match very well.

First you have to connect the adapters and cut the original bolts to right length.








Only lower one of the caliper to adapter bolts needs to be cut.

Rest is plain sailing, when everything is connected remove the old brake line and connect the new one.








Felt almost too easy after battle with the rear brakes.

Then came the exciting part, how much spacing out would my 18x8.5 ET32 wheels need. I was hoping for 10mm
















10mm spacer is just not enough for these wheels, when tightened the caliper just touched the wheel. So under heavy stress problems for sure...

Then tried with 15mm spacer
















These cleared the calipers nicely but the stance is really wide.

This is the difference between 10mm and 15mm








This is 10mm








and 15mm. Wheels are not straight so look at the tyres position on the top vs wheel arch. I have to take better pictures of the stance.

Did a short drive and the brakes felt really good, still need to bleed them at least once to get all the air out. When the streets get dry I will take some measurements 60-0 distance, G's and all that nerdy stuff.


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## ViperOneZero (Sep 4, 2008)

Thanks for the update, a quality bit of sourcing, and fitting.. im going to follow suit.. luckily there are 9 scrap yards 2 mins from my house...

:-D


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

MOT'd the new brakes last week but haven't made the measurements yet. G-Tech requires that you start your runs from full stop and end them in full stop. So it's not that easy to do, I need to go to a night blast in an airfield :evil: 
Here a couple more pics
























I'm thinking of dropping the rear a bit more...


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## UR_TT (Nov 8, 2008)

Likning this Nate!

Yes drop it lower but also in the front. As comparision, the red Jack you have I have to but it wont go under my TT. I have to drive up on two pices of wood to make it work  . Maybe you do this already?

But my two go lower....


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Front calipers with pads were 6kg and discs 10kg so 32kg total, stock brakes weight 26.5kg. So in front you gain 5.5kg for this extra stopping power, surprisingly little.


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## techfreak (Aug 13, 2010)

nate42 said:


> Front calipers with pads were 6kg and discs 10kg so 32kg total, stock brakes weight 26.5kg. So in front you gain 5.5kg for this extra stopping power, surprisingly little.


not bad at all, and consider you could drop some weight with the wheels ...wouldn't be so different then huh


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

Excellent news, I've got V6 callipers and discs so I'm in line to lose weight cos they are very heavy.


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Ok the brakes finally got a good punishment on a twisty track (average speed ~65mph) and improvement is massive. From 100mph ABS was working hard lap after lap and I'm running soft tyres now that have noticeably more grip. It's hard to tell but it felt like the ABS was kicking in the front only.

I remember first time tracking my TT (just remap then) and it felt unstable under braking, wondering around. That was cured by new suspension and powerflex bushes. Well now that braking is much harder the wondering is back, not as bad as it was back then but it's there. Defcons or uniballs would cure that, but too much work for now so I let it be.

I tried to maintain the brake bias by going bigger discs in the rear. I still have my doubts if the rear is doing all it should. Fitted this kind of one time use temperature stickers that are used in Alcon calipers to tell you if you have cooked your brakes and need to change your seals.








At the rear I didn't get any reading to these but on the front they looked like this








So that is 3 blocks witch means 166C/330F. So I think there is room to move the bias a bit more to the rear.

I've stopped modding my TT to save money (thinking on jumping to the BT-wagon), but just out of curiosity *has anyone fitted a brake bias valve and any howto on that?*

PS. Dropped the rear by 1cm, looks so much better, should have done it ages ago.


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

I imagine its a pain in the arse with ABS mate. I only fitted to non ABS cars, so I dont know what happens with eth pump.

Out of intrest whats the point in the temperate things? I dont see how knowing the temperatures means you can adjust the bias? It should be done on feel of what car is doing.


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Bikerz said:


> I imagine its a pain in the arse with ABS mate. I only fitted to non ABS cars, so I dont know what happens with eth pump.
> 
> Out of intrest whats the point in the temperate things? I dont see how knowing the temperatures means you can adjust the bias? It should be done on feel of what car is doing.


You are right the stickers just tell you that you are not over cooking the brakes (temps get too high then for safety you should check the seals on cylinders). I put those on to know if there is room to put more bias to rear before cooking them. Those Ferodo DS2500 pads also bite better when hot, so when the front is hot the bias is even more front.

ABS is just the thing I don't understand. There is a brake line to every wheel that ABS can operate individually, to not disturb it I should have two lines going through a single valve (so that the lines are not connected). To get more power to rear is hould limit the amount going to front...?


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

If it was me (and I might do this). I would just remove dthe ABS system and make some new hardlines up and place a bias valve in or change the pedal box for an adjustable one.

Temp thing Im not sure if I buy as they are on the outside of the caliper and there is no hard fast way kf reading while driving or what temp disk and pads are at. I would still do it all by feel mate. I have 6 pots on front like you and back goes light trail braking into corners and can cause the back to come round. (Cant it Syd?) :lol: I looked like a diffting looney, Syd was impressed, however I was a tad nervous to say the least :roll: :lol:

If you want better cooling on teh brakes, change thoose wheels for a start!


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Those temp stickers are more for show I have to admit  as you see the condition of your seals everytime you change the pads. They show the max temperature, so they just tell you how hot your brakes have been since fitting the stickers.

Taking the ABS a part is too big job for me. One thing I could try is put more basic pads to front next time.

Spun once nicely when trailbraking to a tight corner, front tyres suddenly found tons of grip, tail was out and cabin full of hands, luckily it was a slow corner so left nice black rails to tarmac going to full stop and didn't hit anything.

Loving the balance now with the blue haldex (rear ARB and damping set to tighter than front too), you can open throttle early going out from the corner and back comes out, just keep it nailed and correct the slide.

Hey those wheels look good and you have look good first and being fast comes after that


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## R80RTT (Feb 5, 2011)

I m running RS4 Front with Tarox 330s at the Rear... its an amazing set up and even better than the AP or Tarox Kits..Its Pricey...


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

R80RTT said:


> I m running RS4 Front with Tarox 330s at the Rear... its an amazing set up and even better than the AP or Tarox Kits..Its Pricey...


Which AP kit did you have?


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## R80RTT (Feb 5, 2011)

If I can remember rightly my mate ran this set up Category :

AP Formula Big Brake Kits 
Subcategory :	Audi
Application :	TT - Front 4 Piston Kit - Red
Product Code :	CP5200-1046R2
Quick Code :	A45A4

I ve also got the Porsche Brembo on another Car with more power, and they do work but not as effective.

I m up the power on that to 500 so will see how they fair next week.

I ve tried The set up Frankay has on a RS Turbo running silly power, and was pleased with the results. Although may be different on a TT, I did nt want to take the chance.

I ll be running this set up again on my Next MK1 Project car.


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## UR_TT (Nov 8, 2008)

Looking good Nate!

On break bias ctrl it´s a big surgery, been looking into that aswell. And I havent been looking into it anymore due to this.
On loosing the ABS I think you also will loose the 4wd!? (I don´t have that as a 100% truth, but well renomed german tuner gave me this info) ABS, ESP and the haldex are in some way deeply conected, it makes sense somehow....

If the car gets nervous in the rear when breaking dosent that mean that you have to much bias to the rear? I.e locking up the rear breaks? I have a fellow TT racer he is racing his TT for real, altough a FWD, he has shifted rear to Golf 1,6 calipers and discs. With that he solved his constant locking up of the rears.

//U


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

I dont belive the 4wd system is linked into abs bar the same sensors are used. The fluid from abs system will be isloated to just braking I would have throught for saftey.

The ESP would have control of braking tho which is probally where teh problem lies. Id remove ESP and ABS (Tho I can see why road going people might not want to do this)


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Bikerz said:


> If you want better cooling on teh brakes, change thoose wheels for a start!


Gotta love this forum, just promised myself that modding is on hold, but of course I looked in to the wheels a bit. Found out that OZ Superleggeras are 0.5" narrower than my current wheels (it's a good thing) and they weight 6,7kg (~15lbs) less per corner !!! That's 27kg (~60lbs) rotating mass. It would be stupid not buy a set? So ordered one!   

ABS is pretty handy when you go to a corner too fast and need to brake and steer at the same time. ESP is nice too, especially when you let some one else to drive your car.



UR_TT said:


> If the car gets nervous in the rear when breaking dosent that mean that you have to much bias to the rear? I.e locking up the rear breaks? I have a fellow TT racer he is racing his TT for real, altough a FWD, he has shifted rear to Golf 1,6 calipers and discs. With that he solved his constant locking up of the rears.


Going to track tomorrow, have to pay attencion on how ABS works under hard braking (which end locks first). What you are saying makes sense in a way, but on the otherhand rear brakes are the ones that bring the rear down on braking. Trail braking without rear brakes should send the back flying because all the weight is in the front. Race cars have hard suspension and minimal suspension travel, that could make them act differently (not so much weight transfer).

I could buy a set of shitty brake pads to rear (as they are cheap) and see the difference. I'm just not tracking my car enough to make this kind of testing [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Got more tracktime and found out that slamming the brakes so that ABS kicks in crazy is not the way to brake, it doesn't make you any faster. First HARD (just in the ABS limit) on the brakes then easing off for trail braking worked for me. I was so used to driving with the old brakes and the method with them was always to press the pedal as hard as you can (didn't have enough power to make the ABS work on track).

Better brakes and new tyres -> knocked 3s off from my lap time (3km track).


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

nate42 said:


> Bikerz said:
> 
> 
> > If you want better cooling on teh brakes, change thoose wheels for a start!
> ...


What size is that? The 18" x 8" are 8kg each!
The volks I have in 18 x 8" are 6.7kg each :wink:


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Yep they are 18x8" and 8kg each, which is whopping 6,7kg less than my 2-piece OZ wheels.

Those Volks must be too fragile for my use as they are so light 8) 8) :wink:


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

nate42 said:


> Yep they are 18x8" and 8kg each, which is whopping 6,7kg less than my 2-piece OZ wheels.
> 
> Those Volks must be too fragile for my use as they are so light 8) 8) :wink:


 :lol:

The drift boys find them fine :wink:


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## UR_TT (Nov 8, 2008)

nate42 said:


> Better brakes and new tyres -> knocked 3s off from my lap time (3km track).


Yey, good work! If you ever get the chance try out the Dunlop Direzza 03G in H1, promise that you´ll knock another two second of with thoose! Best ones I´ve ever used!

Very glad too see that the brake upgrade does give you better lap times, makes my own dilemma easier to endure.

//U


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

How do Rota compare in the weight department - limited fitment for the TT tho
I looked at them before I got my team dynamics


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Team Dynamics are pretty heavy mate! Tho they are cheap and look ok hence many go for them all call them a light weight wheel :roll:

The pro race 1.2's what most go for:
In 17" x 7.5" they are 9kg each!


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Grahamstt said:


> How do Rota compare in the weight department - limited fitment for the TT tho
> I looked at them before I got my team dynamics


Rota Subzero 8.6kg in 18" x 7.5"
Lightest they do, which isnt too bad but certainly not as light as Volks or Rays etc...


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

Bikerz said:


> Team Dynamics are pretty heavy mate! Tho they are cheap and look ok hence many go for them all call them a light weight wheel :roll:
> 
> The pro race 1.2's what most go for:
> In 17" x 7.5" they are 9kg each!


My team dynamics are my road wheels so weight not a big issue - weren't cheap either £750 trade
pro race 1.3 18 x 8.5 et 20

have you got my pm?


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Grahamstt said:


> Bikerz said:
> 
> 
> > Team Dynamics are pretty heavy mate! Tho they are cheap and look ok hence many go for them all call them a light weight wheel :roll:
> ...


Doing emails now in office mate.

You were ripped mate! I can get you a set of 18" (Only by 8" wide) all you need. for £400 brand new in any coolour you want. Thats the 1.2's


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

Cheers Sheldon 
I Know the 1.2's were cheaper but I wanted more dish that the 1.3's had and they were cheaper than BBS's`that I really wanted but wasn't prepared for reps inferior quality.

Sorry to hijack your thread nate


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## rs_t (Jul 7, 2005)

Very nice read this thread!



Bikerz said:


> The volks I have in 18 x 8" are 6.7kg each :wink:


What Volk model is that? Pictures of them on your car? ET?


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## Issam Abed (Sep 1, 2011)

Just picked up a set of SE37K's myself and sent them to Rotiform for refinishing!
nice write up Nate!


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Now there area two piece V6 discs, so anyone going for this route can save another 4kg with these discs.
http://www.racingbrake.com/MK4_R32_FRONT_2004_p/2174-381.htm
Not my images source below

























SOURCE:http://www.r32oc.com/general-chat/33693-racingbrakes-two-piece-rotor-mk4-mk5.html


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

rs_t said:


> Very nice read this thread!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


P1's. Not on car. Cant remember ET off my head. they for sale. I want 17's to get the weight down :wink:


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

TT-RS brake coolers, good mode for those who track their car.


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## DuTTchNL (Sep 18, 2010)

What brakeline did you use on the calipers? I see them in the picture directly connected in the caliper, without a banjo bolt...


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

DuTTchNL said:


> What brakeline did you use on the calipers? I see them in the picture directly connected in the caliper, without a banjo bolt...


That is not a picture of my calipers, check page 4 for info on brake lines. Surface of the calipers was good enough to use banjo connection. Few things to keep in mind using banjo connetion:
-surface around the bolt should be clean, smooth and flat. Mask the surrounding of the hole when painting, no extra paint between the banjo washer and the caliper surface.
-Check that the banjo bolt is not too long. Make sure that it doens't bottom to the hole, if it does not enough pressure to copper washers and it will leak!

You can also order custom brake lines that go straight to caliper without banjo, I just found that ready set with good price so that is why I used banjo. On those original connectors two cones seal to each other when you tighten the bolt. I think there are couple of variations of that kind of connectors, so better make some reasearch before ordering a set if you decide using that kind.


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## Bago47 (Nov 27, 2011)

I'm guessing those Q7 calipers are from 3.0TDI? If so, I'd be interested in where you got your adapters from, as I found a real bargain on these calipers (and my discs need replacing anyways). Would Q7 discs also fit (I may consider using them, as the car they're from is really low mileage and probably also low wear on discs)? And the most importnant question; would I be able to keep my OEM 17" 6 spokes (25mm spacers at the front)?


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Bago47 said:


> I'm guessing those Q7 calipers are from 3.0TDI? If so, I'd be interested in where you got your adapters from, as I found a real bargain on these calipers (and my discs need replacing anyways). Would Q7 discs also fit (I may consider using them, as the car they're from is really low mileage and probably also low wear on discs)? And the most importnant question; would I be able to keep my OEM 17" 6 spokes (25mm spacers at the front)?


If I remeber correct there were two caliper types ZR18 and ZR17. Some Q7's you can buy with 17" wheels I believe. I think my calipers were from 4.2 FSI and ZR18 ones. Can't fit 17" wheels, it is close but they don't fit because of the caliper shape. So if you wan't to keep OEM wheel you need to look for ZR17 type calipers.

Adapters were available on eBay at the time. Make sure the adapter is for the right caliper ZR18 or ZR17

For the discs it takes two sizes: 334mm OEM R32/TTV6 and 350mm. I don't know what the offset should be so don't know about Q7 discs or 350mm discs that fit. Q7 have different bolt pattern and center bore probably, so at least a redrill to 5x100 and adapter rings is needed... I've given hard abuse to this break setup and the OEM 332mm discs have worked fine. There are also aftermarket two piece disc now available, but they are a bit pricey. What ever you do don't get solid one piece 334mm discs, they have bad reputation and are heavy. I'd avoid drilled discs too, stock brake setup created cracks around the holes when I tracked the car with DS2500 pads.


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## Bago47 (Nov 27, 2011)

nate42 said:


> Bago47 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm guessing those Q7 calipers are from 3.0TDI? If so, I'd be interested in where you got your adapters from, as I found a real bargain on these calipers (and my discs need replacing anyways). Would Q7 discs also fit (I may consider using them, as the car they're from is really low mileage and probably also low wear on discs)? And the most importnant question; would I be able to keep my OEM 17" 6 spokes (25mm spacers at the front)?
> ...


I think you may be wrong, as on the first page you stated they're from Q7 TDI? And I'm a bit confused now: after some seraching I found 18L/R calipers which are 6 pot, and quickly afterwards I also found some 17L/R calipers, which are also 6 pot? Would I be able to fit 350mm discs on 17L/R calipers (and I believe I would have to use 18" wheels in this case)?

I found these (for 18" wheels) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-PORSCHE-BR ... 7675.l2557 and these (for 17", it's the same ebay seller than you've used) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PORSCHE-6-POT ... 19dfa1e27d . Now, they both state you can only use 334mm discs?

My original plan was buying both calipers and discs (I know I shouldn't buy used discs, but they are truly as new), redrilling discs to match my car (5x130 to 5x100) and using this setup on my 17" (preferably), but if that's not possible then I'll just stick to 18" (I have a set of these, but I just don't like them, ride feels quite harder).


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

You are right, I remembered wrong they are from TDI. Found my old emails and it was 4.2 TDI not FSI. 350mm is probably a no go with 17" wheels and ZR17 calipers. I'm not aware of 350mm discs that would go straight on with these adapters. Offset is the key, it should have same offset as R32/V6TT discs. Bolt pattern and center bore the same also.

To get 350mm I'd contact companies that make two piece R32/V6TT discs and ask if they can make bigger rotors to their hub with same offset. On most of the general two piece discs the pad area in the rotor is too narrow. It is pure luck if the Q7 discs offset fits.
ZR17 and ZR18 are both six pot, just make sure the piston sizes are right. On this thread there are the preferred sizes listed. Too big pistons and you get too much brake pedal travel.

It is a shame I didn't find ZR17's at the time, as using 17" on winter would be nice for cheaper tyres and soft ride.


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## Bago47 (Nov 27, 2011)

Hey,
I've just got one more question before I hand over the money:
Is this "mod" suitable for a car, that's used daily? I am going for ZL17 with 334m discs. Do you need to warm the brakes up before serious use or you get all that stopping power available immediatly?


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

All the bite is there right from the begining and in cold weather also, it is more about the pads you choose. Ferodo DS2500 is a good compromise pad that can take track and street. Proper track pads are noisy and might need warming, so avoid those. You have to be more gentle with the pedal in traffic compared to OEM brakes as these have much more braking power.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

excellent write up Nate,, only one question, you have not mentioned the master cylinder or pedal at all, i guess that is because you have not needed to change it,, what about travell, has that changed at all.. ta R


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

roddy said:


> excellent write up Nate,, only one question, you have not mentioned the master cylinder or pedal at all, i guess that is because you have not needed to change it,, what about travell, has that changed at all.. ta R


Master cylinder is the OEM unit. That is why there is listed the piston sizes of these calipers, some of them come with too big pistons. So before getting the calipers make sure it is the small piston version. Brake bite right away without any extra travel on the pedal.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

nate42 said:


> roddy said:
> 
> 
> > excellent write up Nate,, only one question, you have not mentioned the master cylinder or pedal at all, i guess that is because you have not needed to change it,, what about travell, has that changed at all.. ta R
> ...


Thank you


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Nate ,,,,,,, I do have. " two" big pistons ( 4 per calip ) , but I hope not " too " big . ,,,,, do you know what size pistons we are talking here ,,, I hope my two will not be too big.


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## Bago47 (Nov 27, 2011)

roddy said:


> Nate ,,,,,,, I do have. " two" big pistons ( 4 per calip ) , but I hope not " too " big . ,,,,, do you know what size pistons we are talking here ,,, I hope my two will not be too big.


38mm max.


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## Mondo (Feb 20, 2009)

993TT 'Big Red' 4-pot calipers are 44mm and 36mm pistons. A few - myself included - run these on the standard OEM master cylinder no problem.


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

roddy said:


> Nate ,,,,,,, I do have. " two" big pistons ( 4 per calip ) , but I hope not " too " big . ,,,,, do you know what size pistons we are talking here ,,, I hope my two will not be too big.


Like Mondo said you are probably fine, because two pistons instead of three.

It's not hard. Just calculate the total area of your pistons. Too much area -> extra pedal travel. Yours have two pistons per side so they can be bigger than on a 6-pot caliper.

933TT calipers total piston AREA per caliper side 2538 mm2
OEM V6 total piston AREA per caliper side 2640 mm2
6-pots in this thread total piston AREA per caliper side 2749 mm2
OEM 225 total piston AREA per caliper side 2463 mm2


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

thak you Nate,,yes from that i can work out the surface area of the piston, but it does not tell me the important figure of flowed CC of fluid,, it would seem that i am going from oem 225 of 2263 ,, " big red " of 2538 or the V6 2640 from which they came and the seller said that there was a bit of extra travel,,,i have no idea of how much effect these sizes will make that is why i was enquiring to someone like your self ,or any another, thank you Mondo, very interesting tho both my pistons are 44,, who has / have practicle experience of this and not just theoretical,,,,,,i am now more hopeful tho not convinced


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

roddy said:


> thak you Nate,,yes from that i can work out the surface area of the piston, but it does not tell me the important figure of flowed CC of fluid,, it would seem that i am going from oem 225 of 2263 ,, " big red " of 2538 or the V6 2640 from which they came and the seller said that there was a bit of extra travel,,,i have no idea of how much effect these sizes will make that is why i was enquiring to someone like your self ,or any another, thank you Mondo, very interesting tho both my pistons are 44,, who has / have practicle experience of this and not just theoretical,,,,,,i am now more hopeful tho not convinced


Flowed cc is area multiplied by piston travel. Piston travel is around the same no matter what caliper you have, that is why I'm talking about piston areas here. If you want to calculate all the way to pedal travel, you need to know more variables like pedal assebly geometry, master cylinder diameter.. you don't want to do that, just install them and report how they are. There is certainly a limit how big you can go, the piston area on your clipers is 3041 mm2...


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Thanks again ,,,,, yes I think next step is fit and see ,,,,,


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

all fitted  ,, 25% more pad / disc contact area , larger disc, 4 pot calp instead of 1 ( sliding ), all for an extra 4 lbs per side


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

" boost ",, read this thread


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## boost22 (May 22, 2013)

Thanks rodders.

Great thread but me dumb so won't make ends of it :? 
Those calipers are cheaper than the LCR'S :x [smiley=bigcry.gif]

PS Great thread Nate.


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## pcrepairmandan (Jul 6, 2013)

im sort of copy catting whats going off here searching around for the 6pot caliper, already on 334mm discs :roll:


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

pcrepairmandan said:


> im sort of copy catting whats going off here searching around for the 6pot caliper, already on 334mm discs :roll:


you just missed a real bargain in the for sale,, you got to be quick mate


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## pcrepairmandan (Jul 6, 2013)

oh BUGGER! haha there is a pair on ebay for £250 3.0 TDI am I right in saying... but them (adaptors from creative motorsport) new pads and I can use my 334mm discs bolt them on simples? 
new brake lines are normal TT ones ?


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

pcrepairmandan said:


> oh BUGGER! haha there is a pair on ebay for £250 3.0 TDI am I right in saying... but them (adaptors from creative motorsport) new pads and I can use my 334mm discs bolt them on simples?
> new brake lines are normal TT ones ?


dont know about all different model compatability , if they are brembo i think you might have to get pipes to fit,, these are 15qd per side,, adapters are not cheap either, maybe worth a check


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

cant see any at that price,, post a link,, that is very cheap


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## pcrepairmandan (Jul 6, 2013)

roddy said:


> cant see any at that price,, post a link,, that is very cheap


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 1303016820

said would take £250, of cause ill refurb them prob do them black again though


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

well if you are sure they will fit,,, pads are expensive and also carriers if you need them,, ( the hole spacings may be different ),, i got mine blasted and powdercoated red for 40 qd,, dust cover kit was a further 60 qd ( so if you are taking them out save them if you can )... might still be a cheap deal,, GL


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## pcrepairmandan (Jul 6, 2013)

I have news on this front.. I told him I didn't want the rears so he said £150 for the fronts... so ive pulled his hand off @ that
creative motor sport will make the adaptor for around 80 quid .. discs are standard v6 dics and pads well you get what you pay for really don't you?

whats the dust covers for?


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

all sound good mate  ,, dust covers are part of the piston seal kit,, (easy off easy on ) if you are getting blasted and powdercoat you need to remove them . GL


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## j_ritchie (Oct 23, 2010)

Just a small word of advice... If you're powder coating see if they can mask or cover the area where the dust covers seat as otherwise it can be difficult to get them to fit correctly when rebuilding. Great brakes!


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

j_ritchie said:


> Just a small word of advice... If you're powder coating see if they can mask or cover the area where the dust covers seat as otherwise it can be difficult to get them to fit correctly when rebuilding. Great brakes!


haha +1 :wink:


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## pcrepairmandan (Jul 6, 2013)

I have the callipers. they look the same as the above ones how ever need to clean up and read the numbers to be 100%


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## pcrepairmandan (Jul 6, 2013)

here they are ready to be painted and adapters will come from creative


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## Bago47 (Nov 27, 2011)

pcrepairmandan said:


> here they are ready to be painted and adapters will come from creative


Fitted them alredy?

@Nate
Is it necessary to buy new brake lines? Or would 225 TT lines fit Touareg 5.0TDI calipers?


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

i can tell you tomo,, but remember the oem 225 ones are ordinary rubber ones whereas you might, like most people, want to go for braided ones,, £15 per side .


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## Bago47 (Nov 27, 2011)

Oh, thanks for the info, I thought we were talking about a few houndreds... £30 doesn't make any difference, time to hunt down some calipers


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Bago47 said:


> @Nate
> Is it necessary to buy new brake lines? Or would 225 TT lines fit Touareg 5.0TDI calipers?


Info on brake lines on this thread page 4 :wink:

In general about brake lines, you don't want to experiment on this area. Make sure you do it right and spend few extra bucks to be safe and have the right parts.

Have you chosen the brake pads already, I've been very happy with Ferodos. Good compromise between street and track pad.


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## pcrepairmandan (Jul 6, 2013)

got ds2500 in mine £267 I belive... wow they work <3


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## graeme86 (Jun 3, 2007)

nate42 said:


> roddy said:
> 
> 
> > Nate ,,,,,,, I do have. " two" big pistons ( 4 per calip ) , but I hope not " too " big . ,,,,, do you know what size pistons we are talking here ,,, I hope my two will not be too big.
> ...


Sorry to drag up this old post but a bit unclear on these comparisons 

No problem with calculating the area of a piston but if you are comparing the stock V6 caliper (which only has the two pistion floating design) with a Brembo, to my mind you need to double the areas calculated for the Brembos above?

e.g the 6 pots have the 3 pistons on one side of caliper with area 2749mm2 as quoted above, but in the one caliper there are also 3 pistons on the other side of the rotor as well that need fluid displayment (unlike the stock "floating design")

So by my reckoning there would be 5498mm2 piston area in *one* 6 pot brembo caliper(or example) now, compared to a stock 2 piston V6 with 2640mm2 total in one caliper.

So that would be an appreciable difference in the calculations/comparions of piston areas.

Or am I missing something? :?


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

If I remember correctly I was thinking the volume of fluid that the brake cylinder is moving. And from that got the conclusion pedal travel vs piston area per one side. If your brake pads are 1mm away from the disc on both sides, on one side floating design caliper the pistons have to move 2mm to make a contact. On solid double sided caliper the pistons go on both sides 1mm. That is why the effect on pedal travel is less than straight comparison between total piston areas including both sides.

Above is theory only. All I know that I've been running this setup for years now including track work with sticky tyres. Pedal travel is very nice (istant bite) and brake force is easy to administer. Might be too biting if used to normal cars, that might have something to do with DS2500 pads also. Breaks have served very well over all and happy with this conversion. I have TT-RS air ducts that I put on the trackdays. Fronts get much more hot than rears, but that's how it is with TT's, all the weight in front.


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## graeme86 (Jun 3, 2007)

Thank you for your comments. That makes more sense in my head now. 

I would also add this observation in regards to your initial comments of ABS seemingly kicking in on the front (before you put bigger rotor on back)

On the factory setups there is different coding for the ABS module depending on which calipers are fitted, so I would say the different coding accounts for/corrects the differeng brake bias with the different sized factory pistons/caliper combinations.

So perhaps that could be an area to investigate if people find the fronts seemingly locking first after fitting larger front calipers.

e.g. Cupra R with Brembos has a different ABS softcode to "normal" FWD brakes.

Also R32/TT with 2FN calipers/334mm brakes and AWD have a different softcoding to 312mm version fitment etc


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## manikm (Feb 17, 2014)

les said:


> Grahamstt said:
> 
> 
> > Les
> ...


Lol almost half what the cars are worth, more than in some cases

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

manikm said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> > Grahamstt said:
> ...


That was 5 years ago, but when you spend thousands on an engine build and suspension why skimp on the brakes, especially for the track.


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