# B6 Audi S4



## stevett (Jan 13, 2003)

I now need to replace the old TT with something 'family orientated'. So I looked at a load of derv mobiles and got bored to death, then I started looking at some older V8 S4's, i.e. B6/2005.

Have any of you had any real world experience owning one of these? I believe they can be extremely expensive to run, with standard services costing £700+ etc.. The MPG is obviously not going to be great, but if I can keep it around 25MPG on a long run, and above 18 around town that'll do me.

Failing that I'm struggling to find something that's less than 15k, big, and fun.

Many thanks.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

I had a lovely Noggy Blue S4 Avant.

It did run around the MPG figures you state, although it was rare to see it above 25Mpg.

Mine was fettled with a new air filter, a remap, and a full Milltek exhaust (incl Cats) and sounded sublime. TBH, I wish I'd kept it instead of getting the RRS.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

I think you'd be surprised with something like a 535d/530d to be honest.

Admittedly you won't get the burble, but you get a very composed family-orientated vehicle. And in M-sport guise with a remap, a 535d is hard to beat.

The only thing that lets it down IMHO, is the lack of 4WD. If they had X-drive vehicles over here, a 535 Xd would be pretty much an ideal all rounder.

Before we got our 530d, I looked long and hard (and lustfully) at a 4.2 V8 A6. I did all the maths of purchase price versus running costs but in the end, did the sensible thing and went diesel.

I also made some tentaive enquiries about Tim's S4, but that shape of A4 just wasn't big enough for us.

Just as a comparison. We test drove a 3.2 V6 A6 quattro and a 3.0TDi A6 back to back and the diesel was by far the better car.


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## p1tse (Sep 20, 2004)

our family car, 4wd, 3.2v6 great exhaust note, 30-35mpg on a decent run, DSG is smooth










R32

but to be honest we could do with more space


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## stevett (Jan 13, 2003)

Thanks all for the advice. I did consider a 535D, I'm just trying to find some time to go and view one. They're nice looking/performing cars but I'd be looking at a 5 year old one I think. Presume they can take the miles and are fairly reliable despite the power output etc...

Cheers


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## p1tse (Sep 20, 2004)

but for £15k it will be circa 100k miles on a 535d touring

main thing is swirl flaps i believe, but also it has air suspension and faults can be caused with ingrained dirt etc.


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## stevett (Jan 13, 2003)

Yep, 100k seems pretty normal for 5 series diesels. I've seen some incredible mileage on other cars such as 120k on a 2008 a4 avant! Also saw 172k on a BMW 550i, at 24MPG (at best) it must have cost over 30k in fuel!


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

stevett said:


> I now need to replace the old TT with something 'family orientated'. So I looked at a load of derv mobiles and got bored to death, then I started looking at some older V8 S4's, i.e. B6/2005.
> 
> Have any of you had any real world experience owning one of these? I believe they can be extremely expensive to run, with standard services costing £700+ etc.. The MPG is obviously not going to be great, but if I can keep it around 25MPG on a long run, and above 18 around town that'll do me.
> 
> ...


I went from the TT to a B6 S4 as my sensible family car. The fact it was AMD stage 3 and has really firm suspension slipped under the radar and did us proud for 5 years.

MPG wise is averaged 18. Runs better. Town work worse. Track days terrible :lol:

Soot chuckers are powered by the devils fuel but the torque they have is impressive. I ran along side a 535D many years ago and it took some effort over 50mph to get some distance on it.

But then you come to the sound and the pleasures of owning a V8 with quattro.

It's not the perfect car but it certainly kept us happy for a long time.


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## techfreak (Aug 13, 2010)

scoTTy said:


> stevett said:
> 
> 
> > I now need to replace the old TT with something 'family orientated'. So I looked at a load of derv mobiles and got bored to death, then I started looking at some older V8 S4's, i.e. B6/2005.
> ...


With at stage 3 do you remember what it was pushing?

Also what things would you recommend a buyer look out for? Any ideas on avg servicing costs? How long was your tyre life?
Was the drive harder than tt suspension wise?

Sorry for the 20 questions but its hard to find many b6 s4 owners about on forum...


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

techfreak said:


> scoTTy said:
> 
> 
> > stevett said:
> ...


IIRC (and ScoTTy's was similar, I think) the standard car was about 340bhp.

The tune, exhaust, cats and filter didn't add a huge amount (you have to remember this is a normally aspirated car) so I reckon peak power was probably no more than 360-370bhp... but the delivery was broader and the noise was amazing. I didn't think you went for the Hyperflow filter, ScoTTy?

Servicing costs were reasonable - normal Audi rates, except it needed more oil.

Couple of recalls on some engine bits. Tyre life wasn't the best, but they didn't break the bank.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

I had graphs showing 380, 385 and 390bhp but I think that's a little generous. I didnt bother with the Hyperflow.

Tyres - I don't now as I did a lot of track days, European tours with squealing hairpins, loads of 'ring visits etc so I used a lot of tyres. I did kill the original Continentals in an evening session at Bedford as I was totally over driving the car just to see what it did when pushed too far. The heavy nose means the tyres roll over easy so for serious use you need to up the pressures otherwise you simply wear out the sidewalls instead of the tread.

RS4 anti-roll bar was a great mod. In made it a lot more neutral rather than understeery.

There was a reverse gear issue on early ones but I'd expect all affected to have been resolved by now. There were some service bulletins such as the cold morning noise which was an engine out job but I don't think it caused real issues.

There's a load of owners on RS246.com so input from current owners is readily available if you need it 

The suspension was surprisingly hard. I had a Mark I TT and it was a lot harder than the OEM suspension and the H&R/Koni setup I fitted. Some mornings (if I had a bit of a head!) it was too hard but generally it was fine.


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## techfreak (Aug 13, 2010)

Thnx been doing some research all day on various forums rs246 is next on my list...learnt all about the various issues...alot of folk comparing this with M3 when looking...and most r opting for m3...even those whove owned both...cant b true audi nuts tho


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Many people go for M3's instead of the S4.

It's got a lot going for it :

It's more showey and bling Vs the S4's understated looks
it's got the macho vote (i.e. RWD, "drivers car" etc)
people still seem to aspire to a BMW more than an Audi
etc
etc

It depends what you want. It's not for everyone.

p.s. I never found an M3 that would play against my S4. It seems they get bought but no one seems to actually put their foot down in them. i.e. Poseurs!


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## techfreak (Aug 13, 2010)

Must explain all the cat d m3s knocking about lol i think i may have decided to keep tt and year after next get ttrs rs4 or rs6 maybe m6 but prefer audi tbh...would love to get one next but with house n wedding on cards and babies nt far behind its looking unlikely


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## stevett (Jan 13, 2003)

Well, I'm still really torn between a B6/B7 S4 (B7 estate can be had for around 15k) and a more 'sensible' 535D saloon. My head says the BMW, but my heart says the S4. [smiley=bigcry.gif]

Thinking out loud here.....
BMW Pros : 30mpg, lots of kit (heads up, memory seats etc..), very fast, good motorway cruiser
BMW Cons : It's a BMW, no V8 roar, the rear seats don't fold down (I'm led to believe)

Audi Pros: V8 noise  speed, I know Audis and Awesome GTi are about a 1 minute drive from where I work. I can put the seats down and get a bike in the back. Quattro in the wet.
Audi Cons : 20MPG average, approx £500/year more in fuel. I need a tracker with my current insurers. It'll probably cost me money to use as a company car (need to get about 26MPG to break even on fuel allowance!)

I'll have to test drive the 535d tomorrow I think and make a decision based on that. Love cars, but hate the dilema of buying them!


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## chrishumes (Jun 16, 2008)

I might need a s4 estate in future. Let us know how u get on. Are s4s all auto?


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## stevett (Jan 13, 2003)

Nope, the one I test drove was a 6 speed manual.


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## chrishumes (Jun 16, 2008)

Ah good, I've only seen autos. I'd want a rs4 really, but prices seem to be stable at 25k! I think if I got a s4 I would always wish I'd gone for the rs4. Kind of why I got a qs and not a 225/v6


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## stevett (Jan 13, 2003)

I really wanted an RS4 earlier this year, but another small child on the way has put a stop to that 

Like you say, an RS4 is a good 10k more over an S4, so it's an easy decision for me now.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Or...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/ ... ?logcode=p


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## techfreak (Aug 13, 2010)

chrishumes said:


> Ah good, I've only seen autos. I'd want a rs4 really, but prices seem to be stable at 25k! I think if I got a s4 I would always wish I'd gone for the rs4. Kind of why I got a qs and not a 225/v6


Thats like me, i feel i made this mistake with the tt. Got 225 when should have got qs, but paid a decent price so can't really complain, and now im gonna hold fire for the rs4/6 or m6...


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## HRD TT (Dec 13, 2005)

stevett said:


> Well, I'm still really torn between a B6/B7 S4 (B7 estate can be had for around 15k) and a more 'sensible' 535D saloon. My head says the BMW, but my heart says the S4. [smiley=bigcry.gif]
> 
> Thinking out loud here.....
> BMW Pros : 30mpg, lots of kit (heads up, memory seats etc..), very fast, good motorway cruiser
> ...


I've had a B7 S4 for a couple of months now and absolutely love it. Most of my journeys are around town so best mpg was 23 worst 14 average about 18 - but the noise the thing makes with a milltek is worth the extra money I'm spending on fuel - have a listen to some of the clips on YouTube with just a non-resonated catback  
I'm insured with Adrian flux and insurance was exactly the same as a X5 3.0d with a remap.
Baby seat also fits nicely in the back an boot is a really good size
Do it


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Just one final thing from me. The B7 is far more usable as a family car than the B6. We got rid of our 2.5TDi B6 Avant for the 5-series (though we wanted an A6) due to lack of space. I think the B7 went some way to addressing this, but it's still tight in the back if you ever want to put an adult in there.

It doesn't affect everyone, but with my parents up north and my wife's in Devon, we always have lots of stuff when we travel. And when we get there, we're normally the ones doing the driving around, so wanted/needed a car with the extra passenger space.

The final decision was head over heart. ANd I still think the 4.2 V8 A6 we looked at would have been a great car. :?


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Kell said:


> Just one final thing from me. The B7 is far more usable as a family car than the B6. We got rid of our 2.5TDi B6 Avant for the 5-series (though we wanted an A6) due to lack of space. I think the B7 went some way to addressing this, but it's still tight in the back if you ever want to put an adult in there.
> 
> It doesn't affect everyone, but with my parents up north and my wife's in Devon, we always have lots of stuff when we travel. And when we get there, we're normally the ones doing the driving around, so wanted/needed a car with the extra passenger space.
> 
> The final decision was head over heart. ANd I still think the 4.2 V8 A6 we looked at would have been a great car. :?


Reliability can also be a factor. Not had any major issues with your BMW have you, Kell?


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

jampott said:


> Reliability can also be a factor. Not had any major issues with your BMW have you, Kell?


Well, there is that...

It has been the singular worst car we've owned in terms of luck. But actually only had one thing go mechanically wrong (IIRC). The rest have been just unlucky and, all other things being equal, would have happened to any car we owned.

ie Pothole damage to wheels and tyres. A roof tile slipping off our roof and going through the back window.

However the one thing that affected our car, wouldn't affect a saloon as they don't have the self-levelling suspension.


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## p1tse (Sep 20, 2004)

did you test drive a 535d in the end?

i've driven a e46 330cd, it was a good allrounder and OK in performance feel
also driven a e90 335cd remapped, again it was OK, rapid at motorway speed, but neither I would say fun.

however great engines the both of them and in saloon/ estate version i can see the appeal for cruising but not fun.

if looking at BMW diesels look at the newer petrol engines too as combined cycle mpg is still good

i wanted a s4 avant, now with the b7 prices dropping it's a good buy, but a little bland on the interior and exterior

in the end we went for a R32 5 door from a TT, so space increased, but could do with more. I just don't want to let go the fun car for something which will be OK like a 530d touring with huge miles, compared to what i have now, but must needs at some point i guess.

having sat in the rear of a a3 sportback (5dr), a4 b7 saloon, both were really tight on head and leg room and i'm short! not sure what the avant b7 would be like on space. but what suprised me was my bro in law had enough leg and head space in the back of my mkv R32.

performance direct (bmw) have a 530d touring sport @ £13999 which looks good
also had a browse round bristol trade centre the other day and spotted a 2004/2005 facelift model 80k 3.0d sport for £13k and actually it has grown on me, but then a little dated in some areas.

wish i had a big motor fund ;-)


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## stevett (Jan 13, 2003)

Thanks for the comments.
I did indeed drive the beemer 535d. Geek that I am I was looking forward most to the head up display, how disappointing! All it showed was the current speed via digits, there didn't seem to be any option to have a nice rev counter on there or sat nav directions, it was a 2005 car though so maybe that was the explanation. I didn't really get a chance to boot the thing much, but the one chance I did was coming off a roundabout at about 30mph, the trackion control kicked in immediately and made me realise how much I'd miss quattro if I went over to the other side 

Anyway, I went to see another two S4's after this, both B7, both in good nick. One in particulary was like a new car despite covering 60k, I may well be tempted by this despite the tracker requirement on the insurance. I went as far as to do a spreadsheet (I said I was geeky) and compare the cost of running the 535d/S4/New octavia vrs diesel (yeah yeah I know), needles to say that the s4 came out rather badly......but that V8 

I hear what you're saying about the noise with the milltek, I had one on my 225 TT a few years back, god knows what it'd sounds like on an V8. The vehicle does have to sneak under the missus radar though, so I may have to 'suffer' with the standard sound. There must be some sort of cheap mod you can do to switch the sound to 'mental' as and when you need it? Dunno why manufacturers don't have an option for this as standard 

Well, tomorrow is the deadline for my decision realistically, this morning it was the octavia that had it, then the BMW this afternoon, now the S4........I need to sleep on it.

Regards all


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## p1tse (Sep 20, 2004)

interesting you should say that about the 535d. was it a touring?

the mates 335d remapped, tends to press a button maybe for traction control off or something and drive in sport mode for more responsive and a bit more control. think what i'm trying to say is the 3.0 twin turbo is an awesome engine for cruising, lugging, effortless motorway driving. on paper with that bhp and torque figures doesn't hide it's a diesel and still not really exciting or fun like a petrol can be.

even though my r32 dsg is no match compared to the 335d remapped for squirting fun (lol), in my opinion better.

having said that on a touring i would go for the 535d without a doubt.

you need a tracker for the s4? the s4 b7 are more subtle than the mkv r32.

i do like the new s4 though

i've done spreadsheet style things for myself and friends LOL


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## stevett (Jan 13, 2003)

The 535d was a saloon, maybe the tyres needed replacing, but I didn't expect to see the traction control light flickering at that speed/power down.

Anyway, the decision has been made, S4 it is. I shall slap some pictures up once I pick it up (if it ever stops raining!)
The BMW was without doubt the more sensible option, but I just wasn't excited about it at all, so why waste the money on it?

I'm glad I've stuck with Audi, hopefully it won't let me down!


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## p1tse (Sep 20, 2004)

good work

i would love a S4 avant, but putting my thinking hat on i think the next purchase has to a little bit more sensible as the wife drives it 95% and the other 4% me driving with the family and 1% on my own, so a bit OTT to run an awesome machine only to enjoy it the 1%.

what spec and did tou stay withing budget ;-)


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Milltek the S4 !!

At steady throttle usage it's very subtle....but when you press that loud peddle you know why you spent the money 

It was actually this fact that you don't sound like a yob around town that made it really appeal.

I hope you love it. I'm sure you will :wink:


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## stevett (Jan 13, 2003)

Well, picked the thing up this afternoon in terrible rainy manchester traffic. Managed 13.5mpg on the 7 mile trip home! Nice. Manged a more reasonable 22MPG driving into Manchester and back tonight.

Link here.....

http://dealerservices.autotrader.co.uk/ ... cklist.htm

Pictures don't do it justice. I'll take some proper ones  It's like a new car inside and out, new disks/pads all round, perfecto.

First impressions are that I'm now worried about what car I'm going to get next, it's chuffin' brilliant so far 
I was slightly worried it might be the poorer sister to the RS4, my worries have been allayed.

I hear what you're saying about the milltek. I'd have to hear one on another car first before commiting to buying one, can't afford to waste any dosh at the moment 

EDIT : I meant to say it's a B7. Liked the quad exhuasts


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## mde-tt (Aug 7, 2007)

Looks fantastic.

I'm looking at buying a B6 (2003 vintage) so have read this thread with interest.

Who are you insuring it with, if I could be so bold as to ask?


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## p1tse (Sep 20, 2004)

looks very nice

but with the mpg, that would cripple me


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## stevett (Jan 13, 2003)

Insurance is with swift cover at the moment. They insured my TT so I just continued the policy. I'll have a look around next year when it's due up. According to 'go compare' Liverpool Victoira were the cheapest.


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## stevett (Jan 13, 2003)

Just a quick update on this. I went on a 100 mile run to Leicester on Tuesday, according to the DIS I was averaging 33MPG until I hit some traffic. By the time I got to my destination I the average was 29MPG. I wasn't driving vicar-like, just going with the flow of the traffic really. Really pleased with that !


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## techfreak (Aug 13, 2010)

stevett said:


> Just a quick update on this. I went on a 100 mile run to Leicester on Tuesday, according to the DIS I was averaging 33MPG until I hit some traffic. By the time I got to my destination I the average was 29MPG. I wasn't driving vicar-like, just going with the flow of the traffic really. Really pleased with that !


As long as the dis is accurate i could live with that...


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## stevett (Jan 13, 2003)

It's probably not accurate, usually about 5% optimistic, I'll check at the next fill-up.


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## stevett (Jan 13, 2003)

Update : 288 Miles - 22.8MPG according to my calculations. That's 200 miles of motorway and the rest are short journeys. I 
saw 11.8MPG on the DIS for a 4 mile round trip tot he hospital last week


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

stevett said:


> Update : 288 Miles - 22.8MPG according to my calculations. That's 200 miles of motorway and the rest are short journeys. I
> saw 11.8MPG on the DIS for a 4 mile round trip tot he hospital last week


I saw well under 6mpg on mine once...


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## techfreak (Aug 13, 2010)

Id have to disconnect dis if it was throwing those numbers at me... Id b forever calculating mpg lol


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