# Paint Bubbling



## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

Hi guys.
Noticed today the paint has bubbled on one of the pillars close to the bonnet  
Now the car is 3 years and 9 months old and as I understand the paint warranty is for 3 years, what do you reckon the chances are for getting this fixed under warranty? I reckon it is going to be a fighting match.....


----------



## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, Corrosion warranty is 12 years, as long as it hasn't started from a stone chip.
Hoggy.


----------



## staners1 (Jan 7, 2012)

Hoggy said:


> Hi, Corrosion warranty is 12 years, as long as it hasn't started from a stone chip.
> Hoggy.


 Boggy if this is true mayb I should have a word with Neil in neyland or swansea about my bonnet and roof rails ?
While its THERE


----------



## staners1 (Jan 7, 2012)

Hoggy* stupid iPad!


----------



## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

Hoggy said:


> Hi, Corrosion warranty is 12 years, as long as it hasn't started from a stone chip.
> Hoggy.


Hoggy I noticed the corrosion warranty on the Audi website but figured that was like rust to the body work etc.
Just so I have my facts straight before contacting Audi, what is the paint warranty for? If my particular case falls under corrosion.


----------



## missile (Jul 18, 2011)

I would be very diappointed if the warranty did not cover the whole car. Only exclusion would be accident damage / repairs.

Can you post a photo of the corrosion?


----------



## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

missile said:


> I would be very diappointed if the warranty did not cover the whole car. Only exclusion would be accident damage / repairs.
> 
> Can you post a photo of the corrosion?


Its not on the origianal warranty, as the car is now over 3 years old, it is however on the Audi extended one.
Here is a quick pic I just took, its hard to capture it properly what with redlections etc but hopefully you get the idea, the corrosion is apprx 1" long.


----------



## igotone (Mar 10, 2010)

sniper-sam said:


> Just so I have my facts straight before contacting Audi, what is the paint warranty for? If my particular case falls under corrosion.


The paint warranty would be to cover faults in the paint itself, while the corrosion warranty would cover paint damage due to underlying body corrosion at the point of the damage.

Bubbling paint usually eminates from body corrosion underneath so don't be fobbed off with any lame excuses.


----------



## igotone (Mar 10, 2010)

That does look like it's corrosion underneath the paint.

There was a big corrosion problem with early Honda S2000 wheels, made by Enkel IIRC. Honda had to replace a lot of wheels before the problem was put right. A few dealers tried to blame stone chips etc., but there was no real argument - underlying corrosion is so distinctively different.


----------



## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

TThanks for the advice. Looks a call to the dealer to start with, I'll keep the thread updated.


----------



## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

Just got the call back from Audi. I have to take a couple of good pics and email them to my service girl, who will in turn send them to the warranty dept. so watch this space.....


----------



## missile (Jul 18, 2011)

Certainly looks like corrosion under the paint. Good luck :-*

We took the TT to NI last month. Had a great time.


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

12 year warranty is for penetrating through panel rust. What often looks like rust bubbles turns out to be paint perforation that bubbles away from the galvanised panel which remains intact. Don't give up though. Audi goodwill goes a long way especially when the car is so young.


----------



## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

Ever had the wind shield replaced? Hope not as its replacement may have damaged the paintwork and trigged the rust...

I have a similar spot near my lock catch at the driver side. 2 years ago the dealer said it was covered by the 12 year warranty. Back then we decided to leave it as it is as I didn't want that area to be resprayed. Now the spot is twice as big and I will talk to my dealer again about it soon.


----------



## moncler1 (Sep 28, 2008)

That part of the shell is aluminium, so at least whatever is causing the problem it won't be rotting away underneath completely.


----------



## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

That is good news, don't really know slot about these things.
No the window has never been replaced, I would however love to know what has caused this.


----------



## missile (Jul 18, 2011)

sniper-sam said:


> ....I would however love to know what has caused this.


In my opinion it looks like poor preparation of the part prior to painting.

Not the same problem, but you may find this post interesting to read > http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=118234


----------



## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

It's indeed caused by poor preparation or by a tiny iron particle (like a spark from welding) that triggered rust.

While aluminium oxide actually protects the metal and stops aluminium from oxidising, it doesn't stop the paint pealing off, hence the bubble. Iron rusts simply till it's all gone. (hole in bodywork).

Self-Study Programme 383 describes a bit how and what with this alu-iron combination in the TT's bodywork. Google it and you'll find it.


----------



## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

Interesting guys.
So would it really take nearly 4 years to develop into the rust bubbles?


----------



## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

Yes, although my guess is it was there for at least a year already albeit smaller.


----------



## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

TT-driver said:


> Yes, although my guess is it was there for at least a year already albeit smaller.


I guess it's one of those situations that now I know it's there it's really obvious but I still reckon I would have noticed within the last year, I mean the car gets washed nearly on a weekly basis so that's alot of washes without noticing anything.


----------



## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

sniper-sam said:


> TT-driver said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, although my guess is it was there for at least a year already albeit smaller.
> ...


Yup. Ever so much more reason to perform a detailed inspection of the entire bodywork. You don't want a couple of paint jobs on the car....


----------



## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

So thought I'd go out and have a nosey at the car and would you believe it, I found another patch, this time on the roof just behind were the rear view mirror is. To say I'm gutted is an understatement, considering how the car has been looked after, and also it has only done 18K miles.
Anyway sent the pic off to Agnews and will follow up with a call tomorrow. My trail of thought is that because there is now 2 patches then that must tell Audi that there is a definite fault, then I'm also thinking that this will be a major respray and significant cost so they will try and wiggle out of it.
A pic for you're viewing....


----------



## moncler1 (Sep 28, 2008)

That is bad news, but not as bad as you might think hopefully. It's unlikely Audi will wriggle out of it unless there is a record or clear evidence of previous repair work. Aluminium has to be prepared correctly just like steel does for the paint to be up to standard. Sometimes things go wrong and an impurity gets in or part of the process is corrupted. But as TT-Driver said aluminium forms an oxide layer if it is exposed to air that seals the metal against further oxidation, so the whole roof should not be rotting through. There are detailed procedures from Audi for repairing and re-painting to get the car back to their acceptable standard. And it will be warranted again afterwards.

From what I've read on the information sheet mentioned your problems are not at the joins.

Stay calm, make notes of all meetings and back everything up with a clear, firm, but polite letter. And copy all to Audi UK if you want. There are plenty of threads on here with some contact details.

Good luck!


----------



## Lyons (May 12, 2010)

Another Belfast man I see!

Agnews did a warranty repair on my Mk5 GTi- top job.


----------



## mr pee (May 9, 2011)

Ouch I wouldn't be happy with that whatever it is or the cause, main thing is don't be fobbed off by them some dealers will try it on I don't know why as my understanding is they will claim the cost back from Audi so no reason for them to try it on


----------



## TonyZed (Jun 14, 2005)

Hi Sam

That looks very strange to me, more like something has attacked the paint. :?

I had some paint bubbling on my rear quarter panel. I took it to Audi who didn't quibble at all.

See this post for mine, and Lyons story, although I'm not sure what happened to him. As you can see, our rust was in exactly the same place, sp Audi should have done his if the dealer was on side.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=273053

I think he lives in NI too, so it might be worth trying to get hold of him to see how he got on.

Good luck

TonyZ


----------



## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

So took the car over to Audi for them to take "paint readings". So that's done and the report will be sent to Audi UK.
My service girls reckons the answer will come back in 48hrs.

Reference something attacking the paint, I'm not so sure as the car is always kept clean. Unless you mean something at the fault of Audi, anyway hopefully the outcome will be a positive one. I'm prepared for a fight though.


----------



## Patrizio72 (Mar 22, 2011)

Its almost like something has made the top lacquer layer of the paint melt and bubble, the colour looks still intact inderneath, very strange...


----------



## missile (Jul 18, 2011)

It seems to me that your car was not prepared properly prior to painting. I would be trading it in as soon as I could.

I had an Alfa sprint veloce. A fantastic litle car, until it started to corrode under the paint. Started with one small patch, then another and another. [smiley=bigcry.gif]

For your info >


----------



## brittan (May 18, 2007)

I'm far from an expert Sam but a few thoughts:

As I understand the construction of the car both the 'A' pillar and the roof panel are aluminium although they are separate parts.

As above, when exposed to air aluminium rapidly forms a hard oxide layer which in turn forms its protection against corrosion.
That said the metal can corrode - it's version of rust is a white powdery effusion - witness many older Land Rover vehicles including my Discovery where the effect is often caused by inadequate isolation of aluminium and steel and so permitting galvanic corrosion.

The hard oxide layer on the aluminium becomes a problem as paints tend not to adhere to the oxide layer. That means that to paint the car Audi will no doubt carry out some preparation of the aluminium in order to remove the oxide layer. 
I have no knowledge of what Audi's process would be but it's probably a combination of mechanical and chemical means. 
Assuming a chemical process is used that would involve using a strongly acidic solution to deoxidise the surface followed by water washing to remove all traces of the acid.

From your picture it certainly looks like there is some sort of reaction going on under the paint. The paint surface itself looks intact apart from being penetrated by bubbles evolved from whatever is going on underneath.
My thoughts therefore head in the direction of something along the lines of incomplete cleaning/washing of the car after one or more parts of the chemical preparation, leaving traces of the cleaning solution on the car. That solution has now had time to react with the aluminium and cause corrosion under the paint.

Just some thoughts - could be complete borax.


----------



## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

Thanks for that, interesting reading.


----------



## CWM3 (Mar 4, 2012)

Got to agree with brittans comments re galvanic corrosion. Slightly off track from a TT but the same issue, Hondas 04-07 Fireblades have alloy sumps and the sump bolt is steel, if the correct sump plug washer is not used at oil change time it forms a bridge between the 2 dissimilar metals and causes galvanic corrosion, which in this cause led to sumps leaking oil through the corroded cases, in best Japanese design tradition is approx 6" from the rear wheel............you can guess the rest.

Honda refused to recall or admit this issue, blaming incorrect maintenance procedures re. the incorrect sump plug washer being used during servicing.....just a shame they did not tell their dealers this, as most bikes were low mileage dealer maintained.

It again showed similar symptoms to the paint issues on your car, bubbling and white powdery substance (this was not a painted part) before penetrating the alloy completely.


----------



## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

missile said:


> It seems to me that your car was not prepared properly prior to painting. I would be trading it in as soon as I could.
> 
> I had an Alfa sprint veloce. A fantastic litle car, until it started to corrode under the paint. Started with one small patch, then another and another. [smiley=bigcry.gif]
> 
> For your info >


Those days are long gone, just like these Alfa's. They were built using un-purified recycled iron, so rust was embedded in the sheet metal. Nothing could be done to prevent them from rusting.


----------



## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

Sooooooooooo they have agreed to fix it, apparently they haven't heard back from Audi yet so have decided to foot the bill and try and claim it back after. Suits me just fine so it's booked in for the 27th August. 
They have also agreed to give the car a full valet so it should in theory come back to me like the day I picked it up


----------



## brittan (May 18, 2007)

Well that's a good result Sam. Seems the dealer is doing the right thing even if Audi CS are dragging their heels.


----------



## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

Good news. Hopefully all will turn out great.


----------



## DPG (Dec 7, 2005)

Have they said how thye are going to sort it?

Interested to see what they do given the bubbles are in different areas.

Full respray maybe ??

Dan


----------



## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

DPG said:


> Have they said how thye are going to sort it?
> 
> Interested to see what they do given the bubbles are in different areas.
> 
> ...


I'm I terested too just haven't asked :lol: I don't think they will do a full respray though, too costly. 
If it comes back 2 different shades it will be rejected, simple. So whatever they do it has to look right.


----------



## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

sniper-sam said:


> If it comes back 2 different shades it will be rejected, simple. So whatever they do it has to look right.


Hence the full detail? I guess so. Trickiest light to check a red car in: sodium light. (that yellow-orange lights in the streets) It reveals any slight mismatch in the colour red. That's my experience at least.


----------



## shogbert (Nov 5, 2007)

I've just found the exact same paint bubbling on the rear wheel arch of my 2008 TT.
Strange - as my boss has also just had the exact same problem on his 2008 Vantage.
He got it repaired free of charge and advised me to speak to my dealer.

I took my car for inspection at the dealers and they didnt really say much. It sounded like it wasnt the first time they had seen this. They took some photos and sent them to Audi UK.

I asked the bodyshop manager what his opinion was.
He said it is caused by an imperfection in the surface prior to painting. It is common for these problems to take 3-4 years until they are visible at the surface. He mentioned "zinc inclusion".
He also noticed it had slightly broke through the paintwork, so said it needs rectifying as soon as possible

I'm hoping they agree that this is a manufacturing defect and not a "paint problem".

I'll let you know when I get an update!


----------



## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

Just to update, the car went in yesterday, and I got the call today to say the valet/paint guys managed to buff the bubbling out,mthey reckon it was glue of some sort :? 
So it's getting detailed if you could call it that and I'll be picking it up over the next day or so. I've asked them to keep the car dry for inspection.


----------



## the minty1 (Mar 27, 2011)

Best of luck with your car. I find it very disappointing in this day that a so called quality company like Audi have this issue. It should never happen. Also if you can check under street lighting for any colour matching.


----------



## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

Well the whole thing has descended into a bit of a circus. The loan car was booked out to me until Saturday which was the next day I'm off.
Turns out they need it back for "a test drive" on Friday. No way of me getting over and work by its very nature will not allow anybody in to exchange the cars. He found this very odd.
Upshot is he's bringing it over to my house at 8pm tonight, which is fine but if it's raining etc how am I supposed to check the car over?

Also this whole haldex thing is playing on my mind now too


----------



## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

sniper-sam said:


> Just to update, the car went in yesterday, and I got the call today to say the valet/paint guys managed to buff the bubbling out,mthey reckon it was glue of some sort :?
> So it's getting detailed if you could call it that and I'll be picking it up over the next day or so. I've asked them to keep the car dry for inspection.


So was it actually resin that drops from pine trees on hot summer days?


----------



## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

They didn't go into specifics, but I can say it definitely isn't resin from trees as it never parked near or under trees, apart from resin it's a sure way of getting bird crap on you're car so I just don't do it.

He phoned back this evening actually excited for me, he said he went to see the car again and the valet dept has done a proper job on the car, he called it a stage 2 detail whatever that it, he said the car look brand new again. Roll on tomorrow evening when I get to see it for myself.


----------



## shogbert (Nov 5, 2007)

After the bodyshop manager told me that the bubbling was definitely coming from under the paint, Audi have now come back and said that they think it could be a stone chip that water has got into!! What a load of b*ll*cks!
They sent an "independent" inspector to have a look at it, but I wasn't allowed to speak to this inspector at the dealers, and wasnt allowed to ask any questions about his opinion. In fact, I didnt even see him - they took it round the back for a secret inspection.
Now he will write another report - so we'll see where it goes from here...


----------



## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

Discovered a paint bubble in my front wheel arch this weekend, behind the wheel. Didn't bother to contact the dealer about it as we could end up having a stone chip vs manufacturing defect discussion. The bubble was small enough to be fixed inside the arch. Carefully removed the bubble, used some sand paper and applied primer, paint and clear cote.
Keeping an eye on the situation from here on. It could be this is caused by the inner lining rubbing off paint from the edge of the fender. Found several pictures of others suffering from exactly the same issue. Audi's response varies from case to case. Some are lucky getting it all fixed FOC. Others can see how oxidation eats up their TT FOC. [smiley=bomb.gif]


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Very true. Because the TT is a galvanised steel construction, bubbles in the paintwork tend not to be due to rust coming from behind, like Fords or other lesser makes and of old, but due to delamination, often started by a stone chip, where water gets in and a chemical reaction occurs. The minute chip/hole can seal itself but trapping water underneath which continues to react amd build pressure causing a bubble to form. It's not a sign of rust as stripping the paint off often reveals.

The 12 year warranty is for perforation which this therefore isn't. You can sometimes get it repaired for free on a goodwill basis or with a % contribution. If less than for years it's covered 100% as a paint defect.


----------



## lofty (Apr 3, 2007)

I've just had a new bonnet fitted to my R8 by Audi.A small section of the paint was bubbling on the underside and it was starting to creep over the front edge.It wasn't covered under the 3 year paint warranty as its 5 years old, and it wasn't covered under the anti corrosion warranty as that only covers perforation, which is highly unlikely on an aluminium or galvanised body so pretty much pointless.The good news is that Audi covered it under goodwill, and the even better news is that the bodyshop made a great job of fitting and painting it.Top marks to Audi (for a change)


----------



## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

John-H said:


> ....Because the TT is a galvanised steel construction....


the 8N (mk1) is. The 8J is part aluminium, part galvanised steel. What 8J (and R8) owners are experiencing is mostly oxidation on the aluminium parts. One small bit of contamination during manufacturing or a small stone chip and aluminium oxidation sets in faster than galvanised steel rusts. This results in bubbles.


----------



## shogbert (Nov 5, 2007)

Over a month now since they sent the "inspector" from Audi.

No phonecalls, no response at all.

I called the bodyshop today and they said they will check the system. Surprisingly no report has been filed regarding the inspection, so they told me they would chase it up.

Clearly they are simply not interested. Hoping I will forget about it.


----------

