# Revo Stage 1 or race-chip for the TT Quattro



## dannyr7 (Feb 8, 2018)

Would love a Revo stage 1 remap, but the car is still in warranty. I'm told the racehip doesn't void a thing and I'm tempted...

Gains aren't as much as revo, +46hp and 73 lb-ft but still enough to throw my ar5e into the seat I'm told! Any experience with the racechip? Worth it?


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## BauhauTTS (Jan 8, 2017)

Not sure what you mean by the race chip. Is that something like a JB4 piggy back?


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## dannyr7 (Feb 8, 2018)

BauhauTTS said:


> Not sure what you mean by the race chip. Is that something like a JB4 piggy back?


yeah, googling it it looks similar. https://www.racechip.com/

Sponsored by the great Nick Heidfeld nonetheless! Massive noob on this stuff. I had a Revo stage 1 on a Golf GTI back in the day, was incredible. Just worried about the warranty.


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## scott65742 (Dec 31, 2017)

What about Quantum Tuning or Celtic Tuning? Both offer around 75bhp gain. Had a Celtic remap on my Mk1 225, took it up by 50bhp, what a difference! Might be worth a look.


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

Don't believe anything anyone tells you about a chip not being detectable or avoiding impacting the warranty. Audi are hot on it nowadays and even if you physically remove the chip, they can, if they wish, read the logged data which will give a clear indication it's been chipped and earn you a TD1.

You may as well go for Revo, warranty-wise you're in the same boat!


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

TB1 is the code they will flag the car with for a tuning box 
TD1 is ECU changing


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

Toshiba said:


> TB1 is the code they will flag the car with for a tuning box
> TD1 is ECU changing


Presumably they have the same end result - ie Audi can refuse to cover under warranty?


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Toshiba said:


> TB1 is the code they will flag the car with for a tuning box
> TD1 is ECU changing


This. Modern Audi's have two flash counters. The 1st is partially accessible by tuners, but the 2nd is completely inaccessible/encrypted, and increments at every use of an external device which alters/changes the state of the ECU. Audi keeps a record centrally of what the count number should be for each VIN (based on how many times it's been plugged into their systems), if the count displayed sits outside the number expected, then it goes into the first flash counter and looks for the TB1 and TD1 errors. When these are flagged warranties are rendered void.


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## dannyr7 (Feb 8, 2018)

kmpowell said:


> Toshiba said:
> 
> 
> > TB1 is the code they will flag the car with for a tuning box
> ...


Unfortunately Audi not available for comment lol but I just called RaceChip in Germany directly. I'm paraphrasing the technicalities but they said the RaceChip piggy-back tune doesn't actually edit the ECU in any way, so the counter is never triggered and thus undetectable once removed. RaceChip themselves offer a 2-year engine warranty so they must be pretty confident (although I'm sure there are T&C which I haven't read yet). I want to believe!!


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

dannyr7 said:


> kmpowell said:
> 
> 
> > Toshiba said:
> ...


No, forget anything to do with flash counters, I recall discussion eslewhere on this very subject regarding an ABT tuning box.

These piggy-back boxes just trick the ECU into thinking things like boost pressure and fuelling are too low and get it to make basic adjustments. Although nothing is changed in the ECU memory the altered values provided by the ECU are logged and Audi can still determine a tuning box has been in operation.


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## dannyr7 (Feb 8, 2018)

powerplay said:


> No, forget anything to do with flash counters, I recall discussion eslewhere on this very subject regarding an ABT tuning box.
> 
> These piggy-back boxes just trick the ECU into thinking things like boost pressure and fuelling are too low and get it to make basic adjustments. Although nothing is changed in the ECU memory the altered values provided by the ECU are logged and Audi can still determine a tuning box has been in operation.


Appreciate the feedback, thanks. Yeah, I mean I figured that if Audi go forensic they could probably notice something wasn't right. I guess the question is that without the red flags of an out-of-sync counter or error code would they do the digging and/or is it hard evidence to invalidate the warranty..? Suppose its a rhetorical question, guess its down to bad luck.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

dannyr7 said:


> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> > No, forget anything to do with flash counters, I recall discussion eslewhere on this very subject regarding an ABT tuning box.
> ...


Read what I wrote again, the flash counters serve two different purposes, one counts, one analyses. There is also another bit of the algorithm that analyses 'hardware' modification (tuning boxes and unidentified hardware plugged into the ECU) which produces a TXD code that is then added to the detection algorithm. There's nothing forensic about it, it's simple math which will then flag the appropriate error (TD1, TG1, TE1 and TB1).

In today's day and age you cannot map/piggyback/tune/alter/con an Audi ECU without it being logged in some way, regardless of who tells you they can.


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## Shaninnik (Sep 17, 2016)

I think that for big issues (broken engine/gearbox) they will be able to detect any box/flash/chip etc. But if you you are not driving like insane then chances of that are reeealy small. For smaller issues (interior/cosmetics/suspension/electronics) they simply dont care. I have stage 2 - changed downpipe, loud noise - pretty obvious that my car was tuned - and was serviced under warranty. If you want to do a reflash I hardly recommend doing stage 2 - much more fun and charcter.


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

Shaninnik said:


> If you want to do a reflash I hardly recommend doing stage 2


Oh ok, won't bother then :lol:


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## Steve2017TTS (Aug 2, 2017)

kmpowell said:


> dannyr7 said:
> 
> 
> > powerplay said:
> ...


Hi,
Out of interest, what if you purchase a spare ECU - remove original ECU whilst car is still standard.
Fit spare ECU and then tune the car through remap or piggyback.
When car goes for a service - refit original ECU.
Would they then still be able to tell?
Cheers
Steve


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## dannyr7 (Feb 8, 2018)

Shaninnik said:


> I think that for big issues (broken engine/gearbox) they will be able to detect any box/flash/chip etc. But if you you are not driving like insane then chances of that are reeealy small. For smaller issues (interior/cosmetics/suspension/electronics) they simply dont care. I have stage 2 - changed downpipe, loud noise - pretty obvious that my car was tuned - and was serviced under warranty. If you want to do a reflash I hardly recommend doing stage 2 - much more fun and charcter.


Yeah I hear you, I've still got a year left on warranty and its a pre-owned so obviously no way of telling how insane or not the last driver was (and as I'm in the UAE you can almost guarantee it!), which is why my car guy recommended playing with the RaceChip for a year, protecting the warranty and then going through Revo after. The RaceChip has a resale value as well so its a decent enough hedge, or so I thought... Now I'm a bit torn on what to do. It is a small market here and my guy is reputable, he's sold a ton of these things to people in warranty without any issue and he's run a thorough health check on the car, plus the chip only adds about 50hp and 75 lb-ft so not exactly pushing the boundaries.. Don't know.


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## Omychron (Sep 9, 2016)

dannyr7 said:


> Shaninnik said:
> 
> 
> > I think that for big issues (broken engine/gearbox) they will be able to detect any box/flash/chip etc. But if you you are not driving like insane then chances of that are reeealy small. For smaller issues (interior/cosmetics/suspension/electronics) they simply dont care. I have stage 2 - changed downpipe, loud noise - pretty obvious that my car was tuned - and was serviced under warranty. If you want to do a reflash I hardly recommend doing stage 2 - much more fun and charcter.
> ...


Piggyback chip still affects warranty, just like a map does.
However, it only affects warranty to the affected parts.
Audi will not refuse you warranty work to broken sports seats because you fit a downpipe, for example.


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## Shaninnik (Sep 17, 2016)

dannyr7 said:


> Shaninnik said:
> 
> 
> > I think that for big issues (broken engine/gearbox) they will be able to detect any box/flash/chip etc. But if you you are not driving like insane then chances of that are reeealy small. For smaller issues (interior/cosmetics/suspension/electronics) they simply dont care. I have stage 2 - changed downpipe, loud noise - pretty obvious that my car was tuned - and was serviced under warranty. If you want to do a reflash I hardly recommend doing stage 2 - much more fun and charcter.
> ...


Are you 100% sure that previous owner have not chip tuned it and it already has a flag?


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## Shaninnik (Sep 17, 2016)

powerplay said:


> Shaninnik said:
> 
> 
> > If you want to do a reflash I hardly recommend doing stage 2
> ...


Not sure I understand you :? With Stage 2 it has a proper sports car exhaust note... Mine is in stock now (selling) and it is like different car.


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