# Any M'bikers here? Looking at a new bike



## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

When I was 16 I was into my Mountain Biking quite seriously, however when I got my Driving license I lost interest. Recently I have started looking at M Bikes again, and would really like to get back into it.

To put it into perspective, when I was biking 'top slants' had just come in, I had a custom built 21" columbus tubing frame with chrome-alloy forks and a 21spd Suntour Xpress groupset! So as you can see, I've been out of the game for about 13 years! Anybody remember 'Mint Sauce'!? 

I'm not after anything too fancy to start with, probably just a hardtail up to about Â£500 or so that is easily upgradable. Now, when I was into biking Specialized and Kona were king, is this still the case? I have seen the Specialized HardRock Pro Disc (06) which seems to do the job (and is favourite at the mo for me), but I wondered if anybody had any other recommendations? GT seem to have come on leaps & bounds, and have a good name for themselves these days, and Kona seem to have slipped?!

From what I see things certainly have moved on and changed a hell of a lot, so you opinions and recomendations are welcome!


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## Nando (Feb 5, 2004)

kmpowell said:


> Anybody remember 'Mint Sauce'!?


The cartoon in MBUK?


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

Nando said:


> kmpowell said:
> 
> 
> > Anybody remember 'Mint Sauce'!?
> ...


The Eternal Stench Of Damp Wool 

Nick


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Nando said:


> kmpowell said:
> 
> 
> > Anybody remember 'Mint Sauce'!?
> ...


Yep, that's the one! I found my old frame at my parents house last week, and it had a couple of Mint Sauce stickers on it!


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

I've still got my bike, it's a 1997 Gt Zaskar, was Â£1600 when I bought it! When my mum tried to add it on the house insurance she was asked the price and then the cc size, lol, errm it's a mountain bike!

Anyway, I would have always reccomended GT but I believe they went out of business and then started up again so not sure how good they are now.

Nick


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

Be careful Kev,

Whilst i was never hugely into Mountain biking, but i always enjoyed cycling, so i thought i would get back into it last year :roll: , I when at it like a loon out every night, and then one night i was due to go out and it started raining, and now that Gary Fisher bike I bought is still at the back of my garage gathering dust :lol:, thank god it wasn't too expensive


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

I would probably recommend the same thig to you that I do to everyone else.

Think carefully about what you're going to be using the bike for before you buy. The frame geometry differs drastically depending on usage - though I'd imagine you'll probably want something you can do some distance on - so a trail or XC frame would be best. Steer clear of the slanted top tube jump bikes unless you decide that's what you really want. While you've stated you want a hardtail (correct in my opinion) unless you see a second hand full susser for your price steer clear. You can buy double bouncers at Â£500, but they're awful. You need to be spending at least Â£1500 (new) to get a good full suss bike.

Why not buy a cheap SH hand bike first of all and see if the bug bites you before wasting your cash? Or even look for someone else that's thought they'd get back into it only to realise that they can't be bothered? Ratty had a Cannondale F700 for sale a while back for something around your price band and it had been used about three times.

Alternatively, if you do want to go the new bike route, then you can't go wrong with Specialized - especially as the bikes you see for your price point now are the old Stumpjumpers of the past.

Groupsets are a common area of confusion - everyone immeditately wants XTR, but to be honest, unless you're into racing, then it's not worth it. They are lighter, but they last half the time. Anything with a smattering of LX or XT (if you're buying SH) should be more than good enough.

Frames - if you reckon your frame was good back then, why not look at building up a bike from that? It would be cheaper and you'll get exactly want you want.


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## thebears (Jan 14, 2006)

Just don't go to Halfords :roll:

Buy a copy of MBUK, Mountain Bike rider or What MB and you'll see pleanty of "last year" models going for up to 50% less. There great bikes at Bargin prices.

As Kell said, steer away from cheap "bouncers" as they do literally bounce!

Good bikes are Trek, Gary Fisher, Cannondale, Specalized (i do hate these, personal chooice as they pay the mags big money to review them and they always seam to get 10/10).

Better still, go to you local bike shop and see whay demo's they have and try them out.

Just get out and ride. 

Edit: wrong name


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## David_A (May 7, 2002)

Edit, cos I've got a rockhopper pro disc not a hardrock.

Anyway its great. Heres some Q&As from when I was shopping: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... &f=141&h=0


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## fastasflip (May 13, 2003)

My bro is considering selling his Carbon Fibre Cannondale Raven which is a full suss (electric) XC bike. It weights a massive 23lbs and is in immaculate condition. It would cost around 7.5k to build but he has mentioned that he would let it go for 2.5k. It's a whole load of money but if you have it under your floor boards and want to look the dogs at your local forest this is the one to do it on!


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## slg (May 6, 2005)

Aaahhhh....mint sauce! That made me go and look out the top I have with it plastered all over it  Still got my trek VRX (with full XTR gear) hanging in the garage like an expensive ornament.

Specialized hardtails are still good bikes to get for that budget.


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

Keep your eyes open as they will be discounting the 06 models soon - I picked up a Giant XTR Road bike for 40% off last year.

Specialized Hardrock is a good startpoint depending on your budget of course


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

I always recommed Orange as they're a great British Brand. Except that these days like many companies they make their Hardtails in Taiwan.

Merlin is a surprisingly good British brand if you care about that at all.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Thanks for the feedback guys! I think i've got it down to either Specialized or Kona [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Looking at the 'Last Years model' route, I popped into 'Bike' this lunchtime who stock Kona, and if I went down the Kona route I have been offered the following bikes from them at Â£500 each...

Kona Caldera 2006

Kona Hoss Dee-Lux 2005

I've by no means made any firm decision on what brand yet, but has anybody got any opinions on the two above bikes and their specs (and their price!)? I know the Hoss is 2 models higher than the Caldera, but it is a year older. Your expertise on the quailty of the components/spec would be appreciated?

Cheers 

p.s. Glad i'm not the only one who remembers mint sauce.

p.p.s Kell I would use my old frame but its an old one and has long since rusted itself to the garage floor!


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

Take a look at Trek as well Kev - I hear lots of good things about them.

For price comparisons, do a Google, but evans cycles are always worth a look, plus www.cyclestore.co.uk, and I bought my Giant from these guys:

http://www.cyclesportsuk.co.uk/

The service was absolutely superb - called them monday am to check a few details and placed my order, the owner called me at 5:30 and said will you be in tonight and would you like your bike ?!!!

He'd built it up and checked it all over and felt there was no point dismantling it and packing up for the courier when he was only an hour or so from me - so he put it in his car and brought it over!


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## Orange&amp;Blue (Sep 21, 2005)

Modern MTB's should be [smiley=toilet.gif]

Take a look at this site before you buy

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/

If you must buy new then I'd go for Kona (wish I'd kept my Explosiv from 92  )


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## davidg (Sep 14, 2002)

OK Who had one of these :lol: :wink:


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## thebears (Jan 14, 2006)

Its all about preference and ride, try them out if they fit and you like then buy one. If you dont try another.

I didn't like Kona, to heavy and cheap parts (on the one i looked at) and also the geomatry was'nt good for me. The Trek was much better for me as the top tube was longer for my reach.

At the Â£500 mark you cant really go wrong, look for the better frame and forks, as at this price range the forks weigh alot and make a big difference.

Evans cycle store will have some good deals, there place in Gatwick houses a lot and has some big sales on the weekends.

Good luck and if you get one soon and fancy a bikeride somewhere give me a shout.

Dale


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

OK - given the choice there, here's where it starts to come down to what you want the bike for. As you can see from the two side by side, the Hoss Dee Lux has more relaxed frame geometry - makign it more like a trials or jump bike than a true trail or XC bike. It also says in the description that it's for blokes who 'aren't afraid of carbs'. So it's probably more suited to someone of my build than yours.

Of the two, I'd say the one that suited you best was the Caldera.


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## jbell (May 15, 2006)

I bought a Trek 4600 disk earlier this year, have to say it is very good having previously had a Specialised Team Stumpjumper and a Fisher that was custom built but this was 16 years ago. 
I bought it from a local bike shop who were very helpful. Don't go for full suspension unless you are doing lots of downhill racing as it absorbs too much energy whilst pedalling although I think there are some that you can lock the rear shock for road riding. I am not that keen on the disk brakes as they are hard to set up and noisy.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Thanks for all the advice (especially you Kell). I'm off on holiday tonight for a week, so armed with your advice and a few Mountain biking mags that I will peruse by the pool, I think i'll be ready to invest when I get back!

Thanks again, this place is invaluable.


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## greg2302 (Sep 2, 2005)

You won't go wrong with a Specialized Hardrock, the basic one is about Â£300 IIRC. I'd also recommend Kona, Marin and Trek in this price range.

Personally I'd be more interested in getting a decent quality frame than worrying about the component spec - if you really get back into it wheels, gears, brakes etc can be upgraded. From this standpoint don't worry about getting disc brakes, but make sure your new steed can take them if you decide you want to add them later.

I wouldn't look at full suspension unless you're spending over Â£1000.


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## greg2302 (Sep 2, 2005)

Orange&Blue said:


> Modern MTB's should be [smiley=toilet.gif]


People used to think the world was flat :lol:

Only teasing, I used to think front suspension was for sissies, having hacked round some old forestry trails for years on a rigid Peugeot. Then I got a Marin lightweight HT, did a few runs at the 7Stanes centres, and decided full suspension was for sissies, because I could get round all the red routes no problem on my HT. This summer I bought a full-susser, and I can honestly say that my times round Glentress have dropped by about 20 minutes, you can just go so much faster on the downhills and obstacles.

I'm not knocking retro bikes, but to use a motoring comparison, how many of us would be able to drive fast without our quattro system, ESP, ABS etc. I'm sure we could all drive a powerful 70s rear wheel drive sports car, but could we go as fast without sliding off backwards into a ditch ?


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Ok guys, though you might like a quick update on my decision. Having done a lot of research, testing, riding, and general comparisons, i've decided to up my budget a tad and go for 2006 Kona instead of 2007 Specialized. So having compared all the like for likes and then the whole Kona range, I decided on a 19" 2006 Kula, which hopefully I am going to go and buy tommrow (all being well). It's awesomly light, and the spec knocks spots off all the similar priced Specialized's. Having riden a demo, it also feels very tight and more balanced and positive compared to the Hard Rock and Rockhoppers I tried.










Frame tubing: Kona 7005 Butted Aluminum Race
Fork: Marzocchi Fondo Race 1 Lock-Up 100mm
Headset: Aheadset STS 
Crankarms: RaceFace Ride XC ISIS
Chainrings: 44/32/22
B/B: RaceFace SRX ISIS
Pedals: Shimano PD-M505 Clipless
Chain: Shimano CN-HG53
Freewheel: Shimano Deore ( 11-32, 9 spd)
F/D:	Shimano Deore
R/D:	Shimano Deore XT
Shifters: Shimano Deore
Handlebar: WTB CXC Riser
Stem: WTB CXC
Grips: Kona Jackshit
Brakes: Hayes Hydraulic HFX-9 XC
Brake Levers: Hayes Hydraulic HFX-9 XC
Front hub: KK Disc
Rear hub: Shimano FH-M475 disc
Spokes: Stainless 15g fr & 154g rr
Tires: Nokian NBX Lite 26 x 2.2
Rims: Sun DS2-XC
Saddle: WTB Rocket V Sport
Seatpost: WTB CXC
Seat clamp: Kona QR
Color: Blue/White


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## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

Very nice Kev - nice spec too - how much did you pay in the end, if you don't mind me asking?

Saw somebody riding one of these around town the other day (or at least similar - looked the same colour scheme anyway). Thought what great looking bike it was then. Then again, I've been a fan of Kona since my friend had a Cinder Cone in the mid 90's.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

NaughTTy said:


> Very nice Kev - nice spec too - how much did you pay in the end, if you don't mind me asking?


Cheers mate. I could have got a new 2007 bike, but for the price I would have had to go 2 models down, meaning I would to have compromised on spec e.g. no lockout, fork quality, shifters and Brake quality etc. RRP on the 2006 Kula is Â£900 (Â£950 on the 2007), but 'cos it's a 2006 model a few places have it reduced (due to 2007 models being released last week), therefore it's down to just over Â£700. Hopefully they will have a 19" frame in stock when I go tommorow! 



> Saw somebody riding one of these around town the other day (or at least similar - looked the same colour scheme anyway). Thought what great looking bike it was then. Then again, I've been a fan of Kona since my friend had a Cinder Cone in the mid 90's.


To be honest the colour scheme was second to specification when I was looking at bikes, however the Kula is defo a nice retro scheme, which I like and regresses back to my old days of mountain biking in the early 90's


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## slg (May 6, 2005)

greg2302 said:


> Orange&Blue said:
> 
> 
> > Modern MTB's should be [smiley=toilet.gif]
> ...


Glentress - that brings back memories 

That was the place that made me change from a rigid to a full sus trek (cost me a years student loan!!) but worth it!


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## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

kmpowell said:


> NaughTTy said:
> 
> 
> > Very nice Kev - nice spec too - how much did you pay in the end, if you don't mind me asking?
> ...


Early 90's was when I got into it too - yes I remember Mint Sauce too :roll:

I've still got a '92 Marin Bear Valley sitting in my garage. Needs a bit of TLC (new tubes, tyres, brakes, etc) but the rest of the bike is great nick. I upgraded it quite a bit when I rode every week - it's got XT everything, and a Sella Italia Flite titanium saddle - looks like it would cut you in half but it's the most comfortable saddle I've ever used. Changed all the fixings to titanium but then made a huge mistake and put full wrap-around Brahma bars on  - got them from a place in Bristol I seem to remember :roll: :wink:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Kell said:


> I would probably recommend the same thig to you that I do to everyone else.
> 
> Think carefully about what you're going to be using the bike for before you buy. The frame geometry differs drastically depending on usage - though I'd imagine you'll probably want something you can do some distance on - so a trail or XC frame would be best. Steer clear of the slanted top tube jump bikes unless you decide that's what you really want. While you've stated you want a hardtail (correct in my opinion) unless you see a second hand full susser for your price steer clear. You can buy double bouncers at Â£500, but they're awful. You need to be spending at least Â£1500 (new) to get a good full suss bike.
> 
> ...


Not too much jargon then.

Kev,

Are you sure that you dont just want a push bike to run around town?

Which particular mountains in the Bristol region were you considering ascending?

Will you be taking the full gay sweaty lycra aparell options?

ps I will give you Â£250 for the bike in 15 months - it probably wont be heavily used. Make a nice runaround. :wink:


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> Are you sure that you dont just want a push bike to run around town?


Nope, that's what the VX is for. Seeing as I walk to work this will be my other weekend/week night toy, but will cost a hell of a lot less to run! 



garyc said:


> Which particular mountains in the Bristol region were you considering ascending?


The term 'Mountain' bike is pretty much worthless these days, the bike I have bought is a XC(cross country), so is perfect for UK terrain. It's funny you should have an attempt at mocking though, Bristol is fast becoming a popular place for 'Mountain' Biking, and there is even a article about it in THIS months MBUK. 



garyc said:


> Will you be taking the full gay sweaty lycra aparell options?


Certainly not, no lycra here! Shorts, trainers, a sweatshirt and beeny in the cold and of course a helmet. I know the type you are on about though and I nearly got thrown out of Garland Cycles for mocking one of their best customers who was ordering some Â£200 lycra shorts! He looked like a right twat, so I thought I would tell him (which didn't go down too well).



garyc said:


> ps I will give you Â£250 for the bike in 15 months - it probably wont be heavily used. Make a nice runaround. :wink:


 :-*


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Ummmmm, kinda had a change of mind at the very last minute! 

I went to get the Kona, and whilst there the owner was taking delivery of his 2007 Rockhoppers. One look at the awesome spec (no compromises on teh Rockhopper!) and a sit on, and I was hooked..... so a 2007 Rockhopper Disc is what I bought, in Matt Black with black rims. It looks very stealth and rides so much better than the Hardrock and the Kona Kula, due to the new M4 tubing which was previously only availble on the expensive FS bikes! 8)










Here's the spec:

FRAME New for 07 M4 manipulated alloy frame, butted ORE DT, disc only, forged dropouts w/ replaceable 98954020 derailleur hanger 
FORK RockShox Tora 302 SL, 100mm, 32mm Cr-Mo stanchions, alloy steerer, mag lower, coil spring, preload adjust, lockout w/ rebound adjust 
HEADSET 1 1/8" threadless 
STEM Specialized 3D forged alloy, four bolt, 31.8mm, 7 degree rise 
HANDLEBARS Specialized 31.8mm XC Rise, 640mm wide, 8 degree back/6deg upsweep 
GRIPS Specialized Enduro, dual density, Kraton 
FRONT BRAKE Avid Juicy 3, hydraulic disc, 6" G2 Clean Sweep rotor 
REAR BRAKE Avid Juicy 3, hydraulic disc, 6" G2 Clean Sweep rotor 
BRAKE LEVERS Avid Juicy 3 hydraulic 
FRONT DERAILLEUR Shimano Deore M-530 
REAR DERAILLEUR Shimano LX 
SHIFT LEVERS Shimano Deore SL M511 
CASSETTE Shimano HG-50, 9-speed, 11-34t 
CHAIN Shimano HG-73, 1/2" x 3/32" w/ missing link 
CRANKSET Shimano FCM-442-8, Octalink Spline, 9-speed, replaceable rings w/ alloy outer 
CHAINRINGS 44A/32S/22S 
BOTTOM BRACKET Shimano ES-25, Octalink Spline, cartridge bearing, 68 x 118mm for 50mm chainline 
PEDALS Specialized alloy 1pc, 9/16" 
RIMS Specialized/Alex, RHD 26, double wall, disc w/ eyelets 
FRONT HUB Specialized Hi Lo disc, 32h, CNC flange and disc mount, QR 
REAR HUB Shimano FH-M475L, cassette, disc, 32h, QR 
SPOKES 1.8mm (15g) stainless, black 
FRONT TYRE Specialized Fast Trak, 26x2.0", DC, 60TPI, aramid bead 
REAR TYRE Specialized Fast Trak, 26x2.0", DC, 60TPI, aramid bead 
TUBES Specialized schraeder valve 
SADDLE Specialized Body Geometry, MTB 
SEAT POST Specialized alloy micro adjust, 30.9mm 
SEAT BINDER Specialized forged alloy w/ QR

I'm off for a ride.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

....bet it sets off the crotchless ninja outfit superbly. :wink:


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## jdn (Aug 26, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> ... and rides so much better than the Hardrock and the Kona Kula, due to the new M4 tubing which was previously only availble on the expensive FS bikes! 8)


Well done.

Is that what you were told or is that your own opinion?


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

jdn said:


> Is that what you were told or is that your own opinion?


I know i've been out of the MB game for a while, but i'm not that naive mate, it's my own opinion. I rode all three (obviously), and the Rockhopper felt more balanced. Yes the Kula is slightly lighter all over, but its a bit too light for my own personal riding position at the front, making it twitchy (which I wasn't fully aware of untill I rode the Rockhopper and compared the two). Even though im 6ft 1' i'm by no means a muscular bloke, so I need some extra control over the front forks. I was told that the M4 and the design used with the tubing on the Rockhopper helps give you better weight distribution due to way it's manipulated (whether that's true or not who knows, but it seems to work for me which is what counts), which is not necessarily good for racing or downhill, but good for x country and arsing about like I need. It feels more planted and controlled than the Kona.


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## jdn (Aug 26, 2002)

Fair enough - just sounded like 'a line' someone had fed you about the bike.

I hope you enjoy it - looks good.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Much as Mr Charlton may mock the lycra, it's perfectly suited to riding a bike.

Stretchy means comfort, quick wicking means it dries more quickly therefore keeping you warm and dry, its lightness makes it far less tiring to wear too.

I suppose you still wear oilskins and a sou-wester when you're on your boat do you gary?

And before you start getting horrendous mental images, I wear other shorts over the top of my lycra ones and my tops are freeride tops (baggy rather than tight).

I appreciate the benefits, but not the look.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Kell said:


> Much as Mr Charlton may mock the lycra, it's perfectly suited to riding a bike.
> 
> Stretchy means comfort, quick wicking means it dries more quickly therefore keeping you warm and dry, its lightness makes it far less tiring to wear too.
> 
> ...


An horrendous mental image earlier..










for commercial seafarers everywhere:










hi tech layered wicky stuff wont last a day in that environment and is far better for the quayside, high street or on a bicycle.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Ah OK - Trawler wear is slightly different from Yachting wear though.


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