# I'm Back



## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

But I'm not happy [smiley=argue.gif]


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

[smiley=gossip.gif] Welcome back (I think) :wink: :lol: :lol:


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## barton TT (Nov 13, 2004)

Did you get sent to the Headmaster and get detention and lines to do. :roll: Welcome back


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## davidg (Sep 14, 2002)

Chin up M8 ,,,, [smiley=dude.gif] [smiley=dude.gif] [smiley=dude.gif]


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## barton TT (Nov 13, 2004)

Time to renew your TTOC membership i see you are in black now. :wink:


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## trev (Aug 5, 2005)

welcome back Andrew


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

naughty step for u m8.............go on!!!!


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## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

Welcome back Wallsend, glad it workd out and hope the rest is sorted tooo.


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## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

Who is Wallsendmag?


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

mighTy Tee said:


> Who is Wallsendmag?


Some bloke from Sunderland I think Rich...


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## davelincs (Jan 1, 2010)

jamman said:


> mighTy Tee said:
> 
> 
> > Who is Wallsendmag?
> ...


 :lol:


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

Yay! Welcome back. It would not have been the same without you.


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

Welcome back - have you been away? :wink:

It would seem that you are owed an apology rather than a statement though.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

jamman said:


> mighTy Tee said:
> 
> 
> > Who is Wallsendmag?
> ...


Far too close to the truth to be funny , grew up in Washington before escaping. :wink:


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## Hev (Feb 26, 2005)

brittan said:


> It would seem that you are owed an apology rather than a statement though.


+ 1

Glad to see you back in the fold.....see ya Sunday (just remember yer tights - oh hang on a minute, it is trev who should be bringing them!) [smiley=mexicanwave.gif]

Hev x


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## trev (Aug 5, 2005)

Hev said:


> brittan said:
> 
> 
> > It would seem that you are owed an apology rather than a statement though.
> ...


Steady on Girl  folk will get the wrong idea reading that :wink:


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Just as I was staring to enjoy the peace :lol: 
Welcome back mate  
I think you should be over the moon you have gone up in the world jamman called you a monkey hanger


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## malstt (Apr 18, 2007)

Welcome back, we nearly missed you. :wink:


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## slg (May 6, 2005)

Don't worry Andy, it doesn't matter how much drivel Andrew posts, he can't keep up with you :wink:


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

malstt said:


> Welcome back, we nearly missed you. :wink:


Thanks Mal, any news yet ?


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## burns (Jun 2, 2009)

Glad to see you're back! [smiley=mexicanwave.gif] The place was less colourful!


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

Do we think I can go away for a boring weekend now without worrying about things.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Nem said:


> Do we think I can go away for a boring weekend now without worrying about things.


Boring weekend  I'm not the one you need worry about .


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

You have a point, lol!

Well I'm now in London so stage one of the journey is complete.


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## phope (Mar 26, 2006)

I did offer to take your place in your 'boring weekend' :lol:


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

slg said:


> Don't worry Andy, it doesn't matter how much drivel Andrew posts, he can't keep up with you :wink:


Some one needs to give you all some crap to read


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

YELLOW_TT said:


> slg said:
> 
> 
> > Don't worry Andy, it doesn't matter how much drivel Andrew posts, he can't keep up with you :wink:
> ...


Isn't it time you got something on the events thread ?


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

phope said:


> I did offer to take your place in your 'boring weekend' :lol:


Unfortunately it was me and me alone, or nobody if I wasn't available.

In unrelated news, interesting timing to announce an s-Tronic R8, I wonder...


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Wallsendmag said:


> YELLOW_TT said:
> 
> 
> > slg said:
> ...


Almost


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Nem said:


> phope said:
> 
> 
> > I did offer to take your place in your 'boring weekend' :lol:
> ...


I knew I put this in the flame room for a reason, bugger off.


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

Lol!


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

So how much compensation do you think I should demand for having my character called into question? Should I demand a public apology and the head of the mod on a stake ?


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

stop moaning ya big jessie, back aint ya and fully re instated [smiley=knife.gif] [smiley=oops.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif] 
can we get some new smilies pleaseeeeeeeeeeeee? pervy ones if poss


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Maybe we should be asking ourselves why the TTOC have so much power on a forum that isn't directly connected to them... Had this information been posted on another forum, do you think it would have resulted in an instant ban and deleted posts?


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## slg (May 6, 2005)

Wallsendmag said:


> So how much compensation do you think I should demand for having my character called into question? Should I demand a public apology and the head of the mod on a stake ?


You're from Newcastle where they have thick skin, take it like an adopted Geordie (instead of a mackem) and move on...

As for character...you're certainly one of them!


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Gazzer said:


> stop moaning ya big jessie, back aint ya and fully re instated [smiley=knife.gif] [smiley=oops.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
> can we get some new smilies pleaseeeeeeeeeeeee? pervy ones if poss


we have much better smilies but I don't think I can tell you where ;-)


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

i thought it was public knowledge too :lol: :lol: 
Don't forget the R8 plus too.


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Toshiba said:


> i thought it was public knowledge too :lol: :lol:
> Don't forget the R8 plus too.


Well it is now :lol: :lol:


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Original thread copied and pasted into MSword :wink: :lol:

A stitch in time...as they say

Joe


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## KammyTT (Jun 28, 2006)

Welcome back andy


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## Gforce (May 10, 2011)

Welcome back mate


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## Jamo8 (Apr 23, 2009)

Welcome back mate


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Spandex said:


> Maybe we should be asking ourselves why the TTOC have so much power on a forum that isn't directly connected to them... Had this information been posted on another forum, do you think it would have resulted in an instant ban and deleted posts?


Quite so, the TTOC is not the TTF and does indeed try to exert too much power over the TTF, when it should be grateful for being allowed on the TTF website. I can see very little, if any, benefit to the TTF by letting the TTOC in on the act. It sits there leaching of the TTF. The TTOC could not exist on its own. It's a club run by chums for chums IMO. From memory it tried and failed to exist as an individual entity and was 'rescued' by the TTF.

The very fact that it has been observed as trying to exert too much power over the TTF is a symptom of the infatuation of the TTOC management with itself.

Joe


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## merlin c (Jan 25, 2012)

TTCool said:


> Spandex said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe we should be asking ourselves why the TTOC have so much power on a forum that isn't directly connected to them... Had this information been posted on another forum, do you think it would have resulted in an instant ban and deleted posts?
> ...


Quite agree with you Joe, the TTOC do appear to have behaved in a totally unilateral way and as a member of the TTOC I am considering not renewing my membership as their explanation in my opinion was unsatafactory.. :?


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

I didn't renew mine.

Joe


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Wallsendmag said:


> So how much compensation do you think I should demand for having my character called into question? Should I demand a public apology and the head of the mod on a stake ?











Without prejudice
If you do get compensated (£) you can share it with me 50/50 to make up for the defamation you directed at me a while back (copied and pasted, by the way)&#8230;no, make that 60/40 in my favour :lol: . I'm not too concerned about the mod. Those individuals are volunteers, I understand, but have the unenviable task of continually drinking from a poisoned chalice :wink: .

Joe


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

So, I'm sorry, but, someone buys a business and the existing staff all say we'll carry on working here for free and you just sit back and take all the profits.

And you think the forum owners are getting a bad deal.

Jesus Christ.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Nem said:


> Jesus Christ.


You called Nick, what can I do for you.

That's my effort to lighten things up a little come on folks.


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

I'm going to stand up for the club because I think they do a good job at what they do. If anyone thinks they can do a better job then they can turn up and stand for election at the AGM like any other member. Except, of course, they don't. Too many people like to stand on the sidelines and whine on about how this, that or the the other thing isn't just how they want it.

As for those who didn't renew their memberships, you voted with your feet and your wallet, don't expect to have a say now. If you can't see that the club, the forums and the sponsors feed from each other's tables then you're missing something fairly obvious.

The forums are paid for by the sponsors.
The sponsors want to sell to enthusiastic owners who want to "improve" their cars.
The most enthusiastic owners tend to be ones in the TTOC.
The most enthusiastic owners show examples of what can be done with things bought from sponsors, which generates sales for sponsors.
The forums moderators are unpaid and largely drawn from the senior ranks of the TTOC.
The TTOC gets huge exposure on the forums and thereby gets additional income from memberships.

The whole thing is interlocked and separating the parts will weaken the whole. Having been a member for 2 years I'm delighted with what has happened to the club and forum recently. Folks like WallsendMag and Nem are making these things happen. EvenTT12 was BRILLIANT and, while not everything worked entirely smoothly (like the display of all the different flavours of TT past and present) you can see where those ideas were meant to be going (it's a fabulous concept) and I'm sure it will work properly for EvenTT13. On the forums, an excellent example of the mods trying to act on behalf of the forum membership can be seen in the recent vote on the sales and wanted area access. The vote didn't go how I wanted it, but that's democracy. We all had a vote, it's pretty obvious a load of folks didn't bother. If you disenfranchise yourself, don't try and moan later.

Frankly, I'm sick to death of folks whining and complaining but doing nothing themselves to make things better. I keep asking for positivity on these forums. It was utterly lovely to see folks rallying round for WallsendMag, but this thread just seems to have turned into a TTOC- bashing which is utterly uncalled for. The decision was taken, the guy is back, where's the beef?


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## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

wja96 said:


> I'm going to stand up for the club because I think they do a good job at what they do. If anyone thinks they can do a better job then they can turn up and stand for election at the AGM like any other member. Except, of course, they don't. Too many people like to stand on the sidelines and whine on about how this, that or the the other thing isn't just how they want it.
> 
> Strong view, very well put. I don't know enough about the issues or the people involved to agree or disagree, but I get a sense that OC and Forum are stronger together than they are apart. The disagreement appears to relate to people as well as processes and that can't be easy to be on thr reciving end of when working for nothing but the love of it. Good luck with it.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

wja96 said:


> The most enthusiastic owners tend to be ones in the TTOC.


I don't think that can be anything more than speculation. Regardless, the sponsors and advertisers want business, and they don't care whether it's from TTOC members or not. This forum is desirable to them because it's very active, not because some of its members are in a car club.


wja96 said:


> The forums moderators are unpaid and largely drawn from the senior ranks of the TTOC.


I dont think this is actually true. Either way, their work as moderators shouldn't be connected to their work for the TTOC. They shouldn't favour TTOC members, or, as happened here, moderate threads purely because they might conflict with TTOC interests.


wja96 said:


> Frankly, I'm sick to death of folks whining and complaining but doing nothing themselves to make things better. I keep asking for positivity on these forums. It was utterly lovely to see folks rallying round for WallsendMag, but this thread just seems to have turned into a TTOC- bashing which is utterly uncalled for. The decision was taken, the guy is back, where's the beef?


Personally, I have nothing against the TTOC and it seems to me that they do a good job. They benefit from this forum and there are some aspects of the forum that benefit from connections with the TTOC but there needs to be a clear distinction between the two. In this instance, that distinction disappeared and someone got banned because of it.


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

Spandex said:


> wja96 said:
> 
> 
> > The most enthusiastic owners tend to be ones in the TTOC.
> ...


I think it is true. I'm assuming you have a Mk I TT because I don't see you post in the Mk II section, but with the exception of Toshiba, the folks who post most often about mods they've carried out or in response to threads looking for information are all TTOC members, with very helpful people like Brittan being very active members. If you took away Grasmere, Brittan, Gizmo68, maximus007, Jetlag and McKenzie you'd be left with lots of unanswered queries and an awful lot less activity.



Spandex said:


> wja96 said:
> 
> 
> > The forums moderators are unpaid and largely drawn from the senior ranks of the TTOC.
> ...


Again, I believe it is true. Look at the list of mods and most are TTOC members. The forum might now be owned by some faceless organisation and paid for by sponsors, but it's administered on their behalf by unpaid volunteers, most of whom are long-standing TTOC members. If they have pulled threads because they are favouring TTOC members or defending the interests of the TTOC you can surely appeal to the vast majority of the moderators who you claim aren't TTOC - can't you? You can't have it both ways. These forums are really administered by the TTOC and if you don't like it, you can lump it or join up, get on the committee and start changing it in ways you think are better.



Spandex said:


> Personally, I have nothing against the TTOC and it seems to me that they do a good job. They benefit from this forum and there are some aspects of the forum that benefit from connections with the TTOC but there needs to be a clear distinction between the two.


I'm not sure any of that meshes with the rest of your posts. You have posted that you believe there is some Illuminati-style clique of TTOC members controlling these forums, and you're not a member because.... Well, who knows, but you're on the outside looking in through darkened windows. Join! It's cheap and you get cool stuff I can't tell you about



Spandex said:


> In this instance, that distinction disappeared and someone got banned because of it.


OK, he didn't get banned, did he? Someone seems to have acted in what they believed were the best interests of the forum owners and they temporarily banned/suspended a very senior TTOC member. What's you problem? That someone who was a moderator acting for the TTF ban-hammered a senior TTOC person (I thought you were asking for no special treatment for TTOC members?) or are you suggesting that this was some internecine power-struggle within the TTOC that spilled over into the TTF where WallsendMag was found in the electronic form of hanging under Blackfriars bridge with aliens in his pockets?

I really don't don't see what YOU have to get outraged about. WallsendMag, sure, I can see why he's irked by it. But not you. I've no idea why YOU, someone who can normally be relied upon to construct a sound line of argumentation, end up looking very much like you've jumped on a TTOC-bashing bandwagon. Discuss. Politely. If you want.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

wja96 said:


> I think it is true. I'm assuming you have a Mk I TT because I don't see you post in the Mk II section, but with the exception of Toshiba, the folks who post most often about mods they've carried out or in response to threads looking for information are all TTOC members, with very helpful people like Brittan being very active members. If you took away Grasmere, Brittan, Gizmo68, maximus007, Jetlag and McKenzie you'd be left with lots of unanswered queries and an awful lot less activity.


I'm not sure what your point is - there may be lots of helpful TTOC people here and lots of TTOC members who mod their cars, but the people paying for this forum do so because they get to advertise to a very large, targeted audience that they couldn't hit any other way. Also, given the smallish number of site sponsors, I think it's safe to say most of the funding for this forum comes from advertising which only cares about page hits, so the main reason any of this makes money is the sheer number of active users, the majority of whom aren't in the TTOC.


wja96 said:


> Again, I believe it is true. Look at the list of mods and most are TTOC members.


Actually, you originally said "senior ranks of the TTOC". I think less than half the mods are in the TTOC (although I've not really investigated) but certainly less than half are in the 'senior ranks'.

This is all irrelevant though, because the two groups aren't mutually exclusive. If the TTOC had no associations with the TTF, their members wouldn't suddenly leave the forum, so it probably wouldn't make a huge difference (it would make a difference to the TTOC though, as they gain a lot of members through this forum - the reverse isn't true). This isn't an attack on the TTOC, it's just simple numbers and human nature. You will always have more people willing to join a free forum than a paid owners club, so the forum will always need the club less than the club needs it.


wja96 said:


> The forum might now be owned by some faceless organisation and paid for by sponsors, but it's administered on their behalf by unpaid volunteers, most of whom are long-standing TTOC members. If they have pulled threads because they are favouring TTOC members or defending the interests of the TTOC you can surely appeal to the vast majority of the moderators who you claim aren't TTOC - can't you? You can't have it both ways. These forums are really administered by the TTOC and if you don't like it, you can lump it or join up, get on the committee and start changing it in ways you think are better.


I think even the TTOC itself would strongly disagree with your claims there.


wja96 said:


> I'm not sure any of that meshes with the rest of your posts. You have posted that you believe there is some Illuminati-style clique of TTOC members controlling these forums


No I haven't


wja96 said:


> and you're not a member because


I no longer have my TT


wja96 said:


> .... Well, who knows, but you're on the outside looking in through darkened windows. Join! It's cheap and you get cool stuff I can't tell you about


This isn't about the internal running of the TTOC. I have no real interest in that, for obvious reasons. I just found this particular case a bit surprising and disappointing because I do like using this forum, but I don't see any reason for the TTOC to have any influence in its running (and having TTOC members as moderators is fine by me. I also don't care if the moderators are in an angling club, or the RSPB, or their local Weight Watchers. As long as it doesn't affect their ability to be impartial on this forum, then it's all good).



wja96 said:


> OK, he didn't get banned, did he?


Yes, he did. He's now un-banned, but it still happened


wja96 said:


> Someone seems to have acted in what they believed were the best interests of the forum owners and they temporarily banned/suspended a very senior TTOC member. What's you problem? That someone who was a moderator acting for the TTF ban-hammered a senior TTOC person (I thought you were asking for no special treatment for TTOC members?) or are you suggesting that this was some internecine power-struggle within the TTOC that spilled over into the TTF where WallsendMag was found in the electronic form of hanging under Blackfriars bridge with aliens in his pockets?


Very imaginative. My 'problem' was purely that someone was banned with no investigation, based on allegations made by senior TTOC members. These allegations were not made to protect the new owners, they were made because the TTOC panicked when it thought it was going to be held responsible for releasing privileged information. I understand that, had they been correct, it would have been reason enough to remove the posts, but the point is that all reason and common sense was thrown out the window just because the TTOC demanded action.


wja96 said:


> I really don't don't see what YOU have to get outraged about.


I'm not. I'm just pointing out that there's an issue here


wja96 said:


> WallsendMag, sure, I can see why he's irked by it. But not you. I've no idea why YOU, someone who can normally be relied upon to construct a sound line of argumentation, end up looking very much like you've jumped on a TTOC-bashing bandwagon. Discuss. Politely. If you want.


You have a very broad definition of 'TTOC bashing'.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Spandex said:


> it would make a difference to the TTOC though, as they gain a lot of members through this forum - the reverse isn't true.


Actually this is an all too common misconception and the reverse is indeed true 50% of our members haven't visited this forum and lately I am seeing a large number of our new members registering for this forum after being pointed towards it in their order confirmation email . Now before I say something that I may regret when I am older and greyer can we close this thread .


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## Ikon66 (Sep 12, 2003)

Wallsendmag said:


> Now before I say something that I may regret when I am older and greyer can we close this thread .


Your wish


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