# Northern Rock



## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Anyone intending to buy shares in this company at a point where the share price is deemed to be at it's lowest?

Joe


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## scott28tt (Jul 30, 2002)

TTCool said:


> Anyone intending to buy shares in this company at a point where the share price is deemed to be at it's lowest?
> 
> Joe


I was training a guy last week who works for Thomson Financial - he works in IT but does a fair bit of dealing - he said 'buy it'


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## p1tse (Sep 20, 2004)

interesting point

so they will survive and bounce back

but to what prices compared to the other banks etc.


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## steveh (Jan 14, 2004)

Probably the worst that can happen is that they get bought up by another bank who can spot a bargain in which case, if you've bought Northern Rock shares very cheap, you could come out with a healthy profit.

Of course, the value of investments can fall as well as rise etc, etc. :roll:


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## Steve_Mc (May 6, 2002)

scott28tt said:


> TTCool said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone intending to buy shares in this company at a point where the share price is deemed to be at it's lowest?
> ...


He should stick to IT, the stock is 40% down today. However market cap is now Â£1.1bn only, which seems very low.


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## kwaTTro (Jul 5, 2005)

looks like a buy - looks like its hit the bottom price of around 260p and is now rising....

still watching this space - i will be deffo buying at around 200p mark


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## Major Problem (Jan 9, 2007)

Bought yesterday, probably get a few more today. Anyone in doubt, JUST DO IT - this is a sound investment.


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## mike_bailey (May 7, 2002)

Bought yesterday and sold today = Â£500 profit - that'll do nicely


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## jam (May 8, 2002)

Is it still worth a punt on these? They're at 304.50

Or have I missed the boat?

Cheers


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## Major Problem (Jan 9, 2007)

There's still a profit to be made there James. Buying now is slightly longer term, but good return over the coming week or so.

Bought yesterday and this morning, sold some late a.m., and enough profit for my haldex upgrade!!


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## Neil (May 7, 2002)

jam said:


> Or have I missed the boat?


Good bet for a maxi ISA? No CGT on the gains then.


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## senwar (Apr 21, 2003)

Where's the best place to buy from?


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## kwaTTro (Jul 5, 2005)

pm me your full name and email address and I can refer you to selftrade which only take Â£12.50 per deal (very cheap)

With the referral, you and I will both get Â£50 in our accounts!


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## andyc83 (Jun 19, 2007)

I use iWeb Share Dealing - Â£10 per trade for UK instruments...or a bit more up front to place limit orders. When the trade executes, the extra bit is taken off your commission.

Commission is always gonna be pricy for retail customers, especially for the usual total consideration of these trades (e.g. 1% on a Â£1000 trade), but c'est la vie - retail traders get shafted wherever you go...

I'm inclined to steer clear of Northern Rock though...as by now you would've missed the "rebound" (so no more Â£500 quid overnight profits), and I can't stomach the thought of holding it for a while - if a takeover bid comes in from, say, Lloyds TSB, it can be anywhere between 1p to 400p per share! It's right now too hard to say what the fair value of NRK.L is...

Just my thoughts!


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## mike_bailey (May 7, 2002)

Hoodless Brennan is Â£6.50/trade https://www.hoodlessbrennan.com/


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

jam said:


> Is it still worth a punt on these? They're at 304.50
> 
> Or have I missed the boat?
> 
> Cheers


They were about Â£12 before, so no reason why they shouldn't keep rising.

Joe


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## steve o (Dec 5, 2006)

I don't think past performance is any kind of indication of what they are now worth, if they go insolvent, then the shareholders lose out first and could get nothing back! LTSB have already turned away from buying them out. And I'd say chances are it would take a good while before they're anything like Â£12 again! (Thats if they don't get taken over or worse!)

Its a gamble, and right now, the shares aren't settled and will probably bounce around for a while. I know people who have bought at 500, 450, 400 etc and the knife kept falling. If you're waiting for a medium term stake, I'd wait a little before you take a punt on these.

On the other hand, if you've obviously got alot of cash you can afford to lose like Major Problem and you can risk buying and selling within a day to make a quick buck, then I wish you luck.

For me, these are still too unstable and I might consider them in a short while, but I'd be looking to spread my bets across NRK, A&L and B&B.

To invest in these medium term is too risky, unless of course you can afford to lose it all.


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

steve o said:


> I don't think past performance is any kind of indication of what they are now worth, if they go insolvent, then the shareholders lose out first and could get nothing back! LTSB have already turned away from buying them out. And I'd say chances are it would take a good while before they're anything like Â£12 again! (Thats if they don't get taken over or worse!)
> 
> Its a gamble, and right now, the shares aren't settled and will probably bounce around for a while. I know people who have bought at 500, 450, 400 etc and the knife kept falling. If you're waiting for a medium term stake, I'd wait a little before you take a punt on these.
> 
> ...


Of course past performance is not to be relied upon. From where the shares are 'now' they wouldn't have to rise much to make a bit of profit. They don't have to rise to Â£12. What I said was they have been Â£12, so could go some way towards that price.

You shouldn't gamble in the share market unless you can afford to loose; same as any other gambling.

If they are taken over the share price will almost certainly rise because of the newly aquired confidence in the stronger bank who took them over.

Day Trader

Joe :wink:


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## Major Problem (Jan 9, 2007)

steve o said:


> On the other hand, if you've obviously got alot of cash you can afford to lose like Major Problem and you can risk buying and selling within a day to make a quick buck, then I wish you luck.


If only the 'afford to lose' part was true Mate! 
This was nothing like my normal dealing, and I don't really like bouncing shares, but far too good an opportunity to miss. I'll have to console myself with the thought that I helped build a foundation for Rock's recovery, and I don't have to auction a kidney on ebay for my next mod!


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## steve o (Dec 5, 2006)

You played it well then mate if you can't afford to lose what you invested! These are potentially pretty volatile if you ask me, could easily still drop another 100 or so! (Especially with the announcement in Oct!!!)

Could someone help me with a referal for Selftrade, maybe PM me or whatever. I want to set myself up for when I'm ready. I've done a few trades before but the free money seems too good to pass up!

Cheers.
Steve.


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## mike_bailey (May 7, 2002)

Not looking so promising today if you've bought shares in the hope of a quick profit http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7002128.stm


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## steve o (Dec 5, 2006)

Yep, they dipped at about 180p and rose slightly to about the 200 mark. Just goes to show I was somewhat right about if you 're going for a medium term investment, these are still too valatile to buy just yet!

The knife is still dropping, the dead cat is still bouncing etc etc...

People who have already bought for a medium term investment will currently be kicking themselves!

Day traders may be able to make a quick buck as the levels are up and down like a tarts knickers, but for the medium term, its still too much of a gamble!!!

Takeover bids even at prices around 200p aren't happening, so how low does it go before people get interested? If they can't make or provide evidence they can meet their projections, they might not even get a takeover!!! Who knows???

These need time to settle definately! Past performance is no evidence of future performance (Marconi prime example!), there's obviously issues with their projections / management / executives as there's still no interest for a takeover at these prices!


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

I feel sorry for the staff, there must be a number of them for whom their share options are looking decidedly bleak.

For anyone tempted to invest, I had some shares previously which dipped to 15% of their value within a week, and 3 years later they've never budged from there - just when you thought they couldn't get any lower, they do.

Northern Rock is a poisoned chalice now, I would be surprised if anyone was willing to take it over


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

steve o said:


> People who have already bought for a medium term investment will currently be kicking themselves!


Nope, I'm not worried about the chunk I stuck in my SIPP on Monday because....


steve o said:


> Day traders may be able to make a quick buck as the levels are up and down like a tarts knickers


... I spent 3 hours this morning spread-betting NRK (around the time trading was suspended briefly which caused the price to fall from 2.10 to 1.86) and have made a nice tidy sum!  I'm calling it a day today now though because the swings are not following trends and the risk is getting too high!

I still remain optimistic about this share;
- Market cap is still ridiculously low
- The 14p per share dividend is still due to be paid
- A massive 6/7% of stake/holdings are now owned by Credit Suisse you will see that the shares are held in a nominee account at Credit Suisse on behalf of the RAB Special Situations master Fund which is managed by RAB Capital plc. It looks as if RAB Special sits is accumulating shares and chancing their luck.
- All the volitility is down to the Market Makers exploiting the situation. try day trading shares this afternoon and the RSP's are returning quotes for sell orders but rarely for buys. This is strengthening the massive short positions that are open.

etc etc

If it survives past the close of play tommorow then I will be a happy bunny to continue backing them. More spread-betting tommorow for me though if the volitility continues!

1.50 at any point today or tommorow? 



*Small print I have to put into this post becasue the company I work for is regulated by the FSA *
You should not view any of the information contained in my post as a personal recommendation or solicitation to deal. Past Performance is not an indication of future performance. The value of investments and any income from them is not guaranteed and can go down as well as up depending on market movements. You may not get back the original amount invested. This notice cannot and does not disclose or explain all of the risks and other significant aspects involved in dealing in spread-betting in the form of bets. Engaging in this type of transaction can carry a high risk. As these transactions differ markedly from normal (or 'fixed odds') bets, you should not engage in this form of betting unless you understand the nature of the transaction you are entering into and the true extent of your exposure to the risk of loss. The amount that you may win or lose will vary according to the extent of the fluctuations in the price of the index ("the underlying markets") on which the bet is based instead of a sum pre-determinable when a normal (or 'fixed odds') bet is placed. Spread-betting trading typically requires the deposit of a small percentage of the total trade value, profits & losses can quickly exceed the initial deposit requiring you to make further payments.


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## steve o (Dec 5, 2006)

What you say may be true, but everything I have said is in relation to medium term investment (2 years etc), you're day trading which is totally different! So if you invested at say 400 or 300, why should you not be kicking yourself that you could have had twice as many shares for the same price now?

Its still in the balance and even for an experienced investor, its still a risky investment by anyones judgement!!! (medium term),

As I've said all along, sure, day trading, hedge your bets and take a punt, but still way too risky medium term, could still crash more!

I'd rather wait a few more days before I'll be buying (if at all!)


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

steve o said:


> What you say may be true, but everything I have said is in relation to medium term investment (2 years etc), you're day trading which is totally different!


Read the first bit of my post chap, I bought a chunk on monday into my SIPP as a 2/3 year investment.

IMO I can't see this company crashing, there are too many Assets and profits - all the uncertianty is due to the 'shorters' playing the market and the hedge funds after the scaremongering media have had their go.

The only thing that will kill NRK is if some skeletons came out of the closet at this late stage.

While it continues though I'll carry on trying to take advantage of the situation by spread-betting.


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## steve o (Dec 5, 2006)

Ok, just the whole


> I spent 3 hours this morning spread-betting NRK (around the time trading was suspended briefly which caused the price to fall from 2.10 to 1.86) and have made a nice tidy sum! I'm calling it a day today now though because the swings are not following trends and the risk is getting too high!


led me to think you'd been day trading, made a quick buck and had given up for the day based on this. I'm sorry if I misjudged this, didn't mean to offend mate.

Still stand by waiting for things to settle before jumping in. I know loads of people who have bought at 500, 400, 300 and now they're even lower. I'm just trying to get across its bad advice to try and catch a falling knife and people who have (although "may" make money if NRK do get out of this) will not have made full use of their investment potential had they waited and may not have fully understood that "if" there is a takeover (which is still very possible) their investment "could" be worth as little as 150??? 100??? or less???

I never said for one minute that NRK are definately going to fail, infact, I will no doubt take a punt myself when the time is right for me, just that it is still (IMO) too early to buy these volatile shares (for medium term) and there is more to be gained from letting the dust settle.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

steve o said:


> didn't mean to offend mate.


Certainly no offence taken mate.


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## mike_bailey (May 7, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> steve o said:
> 
> 
> > didn't mean to offend mate.
> ...


You're going soft in yer old age Vek


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Experiencing a chuckle moment here :roll:

24hr weather forecasting _should _be more accurate than medium to long term weather forecasting :wink: :lol:

Joe


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## Steve_Mc (May 6, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> *Small print I have to put into this post becasue the company I work for is regulated by the FSA *


Why do you always put this is in your financial posts? You're clearly not speaking from your firm's perspective so no disclaimer required. Or are you just trying to look important?


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## shelley (Nov 22, 2004)

Steve_Mc said:


> kmpowell said:
> 
> 
> > *Small print I have to put into this post becasue the company I work for is regulated by the FSA *
> ...


Best check his FSA registration is up to scratch too for giving financial advice.


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Weather forecasters are not regulated so why the disclaimer?

Joe


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## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

Just thought that I would 'bump' this topic as the share price almost got down to Â£1.00 today :roll:


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## John C (Jul 5, 2002)

Had the same thought about this thread! Value of shares can go down as well as up or more accurately.... Value of shares can plummet line a stone in the wrong conditions. Sorry for those who 'grabbed a bargain' at Â£2-Â£3. :?


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Steve_Mc said:


> so no disclaimer required.


Yes there is - the company I work for is FSA registered so if anybody were to stupidly take my post as some sort of advice by me or as advice on behalf of the company I work for to invest/spreadbet, I am 100% covered for any loses. It's got bugger all to do with trying to look important Steve, 'cos I am far from important in my job! - I'm just covering my own ass!



HighTT said:


> Just thought that I would 'bump' this topic as the share price almost got down to Â£1.00 today :roll:


Bit of an odd one this NR, it's defo got some backbone to it. The only thing I can think that's keeping it alive is the mortgage book? But how long can the funding continue!?! As far as I understand it all bids on friday were below friday's closing price, so it's back to square one - this could therefore go on for some time. One thing's for sure though the 'shorting' has stopped, and as for going 'long', well I've moved my spread-bets elsewhere.


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## head_ed (Dec 10, 2002)

90p now!


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## M T Pickering (Aug 11, 2004)

80P Now!


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## Lock_Stock (May 22, 2007)

With a share price of 80p, 24bn in emergency funding, more than half it's saving investment and customers gone...... how the hell is this Bank still solvent?

Is this some kind of con or what.......


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

On a different note NUFC official shops have 20% off replica strips. This is very unusual in the first season of a two season strip ,so I am sure Northern Rock is going to dissapear from the shirts in the near future.


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## RK07 (Jul 31, 2007)

wallsendmag said:


> On a different note NUFC official shops have 20% off replica strips. This is very unusual in the first season of a two season strip ,so I am sure Northern Rock is going to dissapear from the shirts in the near future.


Its more of a sign of Newcastle's quality than anything to do with Northern Rock :wink:  If Michael Owen continues with his run of good health then your lot will be sponsored by St Johns Ambulance...


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

RK07 said:


> wallsendmag said:
> 
> 
> > On a different note NUFC official shops have 20% off replica strips. This is very unusual in the first season of a two season strip ,so I am sure Northern Rock is going to dissapear from the shirts in the near future.
> ...


Michael who? :evil:


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## RK07 (Jul 31, 2007)

wallsendmag said:


> RK07 said:
> 
> 
> > wallsendmag said:
> ...


  The spelling has been corrected...

Similiar to Fowler - as good as a footballer he is, not much use when you can't even get on the pitch.


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## thebears (Jan 14, 2006)

Anyone still buying these shares. Looks a good gamble at 97p :?


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## Lock_Stock (May 22, 2007)

thebears said:


> Anyone still buying these shares. Looks a good gamble at 97p :?


This is not a good gamble, it's a waste of money. With the current uncertainty around the support provided by the central bank, and the possibility of being bought by a consortium, there really is no way to stack up the odds. You may aswell toss a coin although 50/50 chance of a return looks optomistic to me.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Lock_Stock said:


> thebears said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone still buying these shares. Looks a good gamble at 97p :?
> ...


The max bid on Friday was 50p a share (from Virgin), and on the basis of todays trading throughout the day it does look like the grim reaper is hovering. However, it doesn't seem to be going down without a fight - a strong rally in the final 30 and the trends showing dips occurring only after the press stick their oar in, means there may be life in the old dog yet.

50/50... not sure about that, in my humble opinion I would say more like 80/20 in favour of a nil return, but still the chance of a return if you wiling to go 'all or nothing'.


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## Doofer (Sep 26, 2004)

I was interested in reading your foresight with respect to your spread bets on NR



kmpowell said:


> One thing's for sure though the 'shorting' has stopped, and as for going 'long', well I've moved my spread-bets elsewhere.


But I was wondering how concerned you are about your SIPP?



kmpowell said:


> Nope, I'm not worried about the chunk I stuck in my SIPP on Monday because....


Buying at 260p (or thereabouts) is showing a pretty big loss by now. Still - you could still day trade yourself out of your losses as the volatility is still there.

Personally glad you posted a disclaimer otherwise I might have taken your advice and lost my shirt too.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Doofer said:


> But I was wondering how concerned you are about your SIPP?


I'm not concerned in the slightest - I more than covered what I invested in my SIPP, with my first weeks spread betting gains. Yes I could have got more if NR had have kept strong, but that's Risk & Reward for you. It pays to hedge your bets.

The volatility is there indeed, but not IMO enough to follow trends and spread-bet successfully - hence why I've bailed.

So no shirt has been lost here 'mate'.


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## thebears (Jan 14, 2006)

They keep just going down!

Glad i did'nt gamble yesterday


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

My mate bought Â£10k's worth when the shares were at about Â£3 when all this kicked off....ehem...


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

ResB said:


> My mate bought Â£10k's worth when the shares were at about Â£3 when all this kicked off....ehem...


Ouch.


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