# Jonny C's 2.5T FSI Engine Build



## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Hey all,

Just thought I would share over here too.. Can't find my build thread on here but keeping this thread for general info on building a 2.5T FSI may come in handy for some people in the future..

Well, it was time to take the car to the next stage and as I like to do things properly, it was time to build the engine nice and strong!!! 

Now, the TTRS 2.5TFSI really IMO will be safe for at least 650hp in stock form, but thats not going to be anywhere near enough for what I have planned!! opcorn: Plus, I don't fancy finding out the hard way and having to buy a new £14k, yes £14k!!! engine from Audi and think, yeah, should have built it earlier!! Haha..

As far as I know this will be the first 2.5T FSI to be built with aftermarket internals which is also pretty exciting!!.. When the build started there were no parts available, so everything has been made to spec from my preferred sources :rock:

Anyways, heres the build spec for the engine and also a few teaser shots..

* Ported/Flowed/Polished + CC'd Head Work
* Super Finished 2.5T FSI Crank
* 10.0:1 Compression CP +1mm Race Pistons
* Super Finished 'Race' CP wrist pins
* Integrated Engineering Forged Connecting Rods
* ARP Rod Bolts
* Calico Big End Bearings
* ARP Head Stud Conversion

All lovingly put together by the same engine builder responsible for the Skoda UK Boneville World Record car!!.. Also, pretty cool I thought!! 

Im planning to remove the head again, maybe next year at some point to have cams and Vave train kit fitted.. Just to help with being able to flow a little more and rev to 8500+rpm.. Both of which are being developed as we speak based on parts from my engine.

One cool thing about the build is the CC increase due to the head work and overbore..

Stock = 2,480.16cc
JC Engine = 2,541.88+cc

Doesn't sound much but thats over 60cc of extra displacement, which should really help things along!! 

Just a few pics that I have at the mo too for now.. None of the internals yet as they went straight to the engine builder.. I have asked him for pics of the build as he goes so ill get them up as and when I can.. 

*Cylinder Head*










*CC and polishing work*










*CC close-up*










*Intake Ports*



















*Exhaust Ports*



















*Super Finished Crank* [smiley=cheers.gif]










SO! Thats about it for now.. Ill try and keep this a little more up to date over the next few weeks!!

Cheers


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Normally people polish the bodywork...But you prefer to polish the engine parts instead!


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

Wowzers, you arent half going to town on the engine, good stuff. Is the turbo selection secret just now or is it in the public domain yet? Over 650hp too 

Good luck, I cant wait to see this.


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

jonnyc said:


> One cool thing about the build is the CC increase due to the head work and overbore..
> 
> Stock = 2,480.16cc
> JC Engine = 2,541.88+cc
> ...


Can the stroke be increased, or is that on the limit. ?


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

What about 1200 hp, 8.8 sec and 268 Km/u endspeed.


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

Exciting topic!

Question: how many miles were on the clock before the engine was taken apart and how dirty were the air intake and the intake valves before you had them polished?


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

Good question.

Jonny, how is this TFSI engine fairing with carbon/coked deposits?


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

Subscribed...


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

TT-driver said:


> Exciting topic!
> 
> Question: how many miles were on the clock before the engine was taken apart and how dirty were the air intake and the intake valves before you had them polished?


Unfortunately they were just as shitty as my 2.0T FSI cars..

The engine had 30k on it and they looked terrible and required cleaning and polishing.. Im going to look into a way to prevent this from happening further as part of the build process..


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## phope (Mar 26, 2006)

All very interesting stuff


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

jonnyc said:


> TT-driver said:
> 
> 
> > Exciting topic!
> ...


 Hmmm... so any TFSI getting over 100k miles without cleaning is a rolling miracle then?

It seems Audi is trying to solve the issue by having direct injection combined with indirect injection in their latest iteration of the 1.8TFSI engine (Introduced in the face lifted A5 series).

On existing TFSI engines a particle filter (kind of like the diesel particle filter) would perhaps bring some relief in the carbon issue. But I'd prefer if the EGR could be disabled all together by programming it into a remap. I'm well aware that this will contribute to smog causing NOx gases.


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## mad chemist (Feb 18, 2011)

TT-driver said:


> jonnyc said:
> 
> 
> > TT-driver said:
> ...


How about just installing an oil catch can?


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## David L (Aug 28, 2010)

jonnyc said:


> * Ported/Flowed/Polished + CC'd Head Work


Any flow data to share?

Exhaust looks very similar to the Vw ABF 2,0 16v head. Same diameter on valves, only 1mm thicker steam.


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

mad chemist said:


> How about just installing an oil catch can?


That doesn't stop carbon particles from entering the intake through the EGR. I doubt if not having any oil in the intake area will prevent carbon from sticking everywhere.


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Mitchy said:


> Wowzers, you arent half going to town on the engine, good stuff. Is the turbo selection secret just now or is it in the public domain yet? Over 650hp too
> 
> Good luck, I cant wait to see this.


Turbo isn't a secret, I just haven't mentioned it yet.. A couple of weeks and once all the engine is done ill post up about that too once I have all of the relevant info. And thanks, pretty excited too!



R5T said:


> Can the stroke be increased, or is that on the limit. ?


Not too sure, but that would require a new crank, and thats going to be pricey!.. So long as its similar (ish) block wise to the 2.0T I would imagine that you could probably bore & stroke to 2,650cc.. Maybe a little more..??



David L said:


> Any flow data to share?
> 
> Exhaust looks very similar to the Vw ABF 2,0 16v head. Same diameter on valves, only 1mm thicker steam.


Not at the moment, but I have heard that the head is 100% the same as the 2.0T FSI other than the extra cylinder..

I have base flow data for that head and so im hoping to get it on the flow bench for a comparison before it gets installed.. 

Every little helps, thats all I thought.. It will probably be take a little further when the +1mm oversized valves go in, but for now, on stock valve sizes I didn't want the ports too big..



TT-driver said:


> mad chemist said:
> 
> 
> > How about just installing an oil catch can?
> ...


There isn't any EGR on the 2.5T FSI???.. And yes, the plan is to just fit an oil catch can.. Im sure that ill be able to adapt something to work for now until someone makes a kit.. Or I just make my own


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

When you think 13 years on from the launch of the MK1 1.8T there's some cars running 550 BHP + does make you wonder what the MK2 2.5T will be pushing out as aftermarket internals & Turbos become available - good to see you pushing things forward Jonny!


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Well, thats what im trying to find out..

I think with the correct fuelling system and say 109 Octane.. 700hp+ comfortably..


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

jonnyc said:


> 109 Octane


  Bargain £17.75 Per Gallon if you go for the 200 Litre Drum! 

http://www.aaoil.co.uk/racing-Sunoco-GT-PLUS


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Just had a thought..

I had been running Water/Meth for the last 1000/1500 miles so the valves would have been even worse before that!!.. Damn, time for someone to get a catch can system made up for the RS for sure!!


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

What is the main difference between rods. ?

I think Verdi Rods are not bad. :wink:

View attachment 2

View attachment 1


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

R5T said:


> What is the main difference between rods. ?


Stock and what ill be running do you mean??


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

jonnyc said:


> R5T said:
> 
> 
> > What is the main difference between rods. ?
> ...


Yep, and about strenght, shape, weight.
What make a rod a good rod.


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

R5T said:


> What make a rod a good rod.


Let me guess: strong, lightweight and equal weight.


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

IE make some of the best rods for the 2.0TFSI and most VAg engines. Forged for strength and light weight too..

Ill post weights of the stock piston/rod combo vs the IE/CP combo that ill be running..

The main benefit of forged rods is that they will allow you to rev higher, and are much stronger so can cope with much higher cylinder pressures too..

Its just the safe bet really.. Plus I have gone with a non-tapered little end which basically means that there is more rod material on the pin spreading the load and increasing its capabilities..

There really should be no issues with the combo I have gone to with holding 200hp per cylinder.



TT-driver said:


> R5T said:
> 
> 
> > What make a rod a good rod.
> ...


Yes, Or that.. :lol:


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

TT-driver said:


> R5T said:
> 
> 
> > What make a rod a good rod.
> ...


Like the Verdi's then good for up to 900 hp. :wink:


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## jamiekip (Nov 12, 2006)

R5T said:


> What make a rod a good rod.


 :lol: is it only me that found that amusing?


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

jamiekip said:


> R5T said:
> 
> 
> > What make a rod a good rod.
> ...


No haha..


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Are you planning to use "Ceramic Coated Pistons". ?


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

jonnyc said:


> Im planning to remove the head again, maybe next year at some point to have cams and Vave train kit fitted.. Just to help with being able to flow a little more and rev to 8500+rpm.. Both of which are being developed as we speak based on parts from my engine.


What about to prevent valve bounce and valve float at very high rpm.
Any for example "Ferrea valve springs" planned.


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

R5T said:


> Are you planning to use "Ceramic Coated Pistons". ?


Ill be posting pictures of the internal engine components soon.. Hopefully within the next couple of days 



R5T said:


> jonnyc said:
> 
> 
> > Im planning to remove the head again, maybe next year at some point to have cams and Vave train kit fitted.. Just to help with being able to flow a little more and rev to 8500+rpm.. Both of which are being developed as we speak based on parts from my engine.
> ...


Thats the plan..


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

I mostly looking forward to the Turbo manifold you will use.


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Little update..

Block is machined and ready..

Rods and Pistons are here.. Let the build begin!!


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

Early Christmas this year


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

Keep the pictures coming please.

I've done a few engine builds myself and enjoy the process of meticulous and careful assembly so look forward to as many step by step pictures as possible.

How about some pics of the pistons before they go in. I see you get a spare one too! :wink:


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Look like a old one for size. :wink:


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Even from that pic you can see how much larger the new pistons are!.. :lol:


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

jonnyc said:


> Even from that pic you can see how much larger the new pistons are!.. :lol:


Hence the :wink:


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

brittan said:


> jonnyc said:
> 
> 
> > Even from that pic you can see how much larger the new pistons are!.. :lol:
> ...


No that comment was purely due to me getting excited.. haha (geek)


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Im pretty sure the gold one is to hang off the key fob.
Steve


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jonnyc said:


> Well, thats what im trying to find out..
> 
> I think with the correct fuelling system and say 109 Octane.. 700hp+ comfortably..


Wow, hadn't even spotted this thread but will be keeping an eye on it now 8) .

Me thinks that could just about be quicker than a stock GT-R. Hell it may even be quicker than mine  :wink:


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Oh jesus.. Don't start that whole GTR thing again pleaaaaseeee.. :lol: :roll:

1200kg and 700hp by GTI International next year is the goal.. Certainly not going to be easy but it will make for a pretty quick car if I achieve it!


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jonnyc said:


> Oh jesus.. Don't start that whole GTR thing again pleaaaaseeee.. :lol: :roll:
> 
> 1200kg and 700hp by GTI International next year is the goal.. Certainly not going to be easy but it will make for a pretty quick car if I achieve it!


I'm pretty sure that at 700bhp & 1200kg their is no GT-R will be able to hang with that 

Any idea how that may look as a 1/4mile time?


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

jonnyc said:


> Well, thats what im trying to find out..
> 
> I think with the correct fuelling system and say 109 Octane.. 700hp+ comfortably..


Any plans for a twin fuel rail. ?


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

I wonder how ewen that will deliver the fuel into each cylinder.....


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

There will be plenty of GTR's that can beat it for sure.. In the UK too probably!! 1000hp is just mighty!..

I think it would probably be good for a mid to low 10 second run at around 140ish MPH with those stats.. It will just be silly fast which is what I want to be honest!



R5T said:


> Any plans for a twin fuel rail. ?


Thats what im thinking.. but not like those pics!! :?

I would retain the stock in tank / HPFP / injectors. And then just run a standalone fuel system and controller driving 5 extra injectors in the inlet manifold that would only come into play over certain boost / load levels..

Much like the Revo tuned Skoda Octavia Boneville car that managed 228mph recently!


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Do you have a completion date in mind Jonny ?
Will it be functional by March ?
Steve


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

The engine do you mean?.. That should be back in the car within a couple of weeks all going to plan


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

jonnyc said:


> Oh jesus.. Don't start that whole GTR thing again pleaaaaseeee.. :lol: :roll:
> 
> 1200kg and 700hp by GTI International next year is the goal.. Certainly not going to be easy but it will make for a pretty quick car if I achieve it!


Cool at least it will shut Mitchy up ! stage 1,S-tronic car and a V-box and he thinks the crown is his! JC this is real exciting [smiley=cheers.gif]


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

vwcheung said:


> jonnyc said:
> 
> 
> > Oh jesus.. Don't start that whole GTR thing again pleaaaaseeee.. :lol: :roll:
> ...


Erm, no I dont, what part of 11.65 beats 11.61 [smiley=book2.gif]

I'm all for Jonny taking the TTRS into the next league above, good luck to him as he's pushing things on much further than anyone else and deserves the credit for doing so, 10.5's easy. Bitchy comments get you nowhere my friend, dont like my thread, dont read it, simples 

Put the handbag down, cannot be arsed with another catfight :wink:


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

You call it Bitchin and I call it Banter Mitchy ! Engine builds and big horses excite all of us on here thats a FACT. Your car is pretty much similar to every RS on here including mine and i dont have much to shout about, i know my car is not that special in the performance so dont bother raving on about it. 
just saw the bit about the cat fight, lol i aint having a dig mate just a opinon


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

vwcheung said:


> You call it Bitchin and I call it Banter Mitchy ! Engine builds and big horses excite all of us on here thats a FACT. Your car is pretty much similar to every RS on here including mine and i dont have much to shout about, i know my car is not that special in the performance so dont bother raving on about it.
> just saw the bit about the cat fight, lol i aint having a dig mate just a opinon


It's my time of the month.

You're right, my car is making average power, I'm just pushing the envelope to try and get the very best out of every single 1 of those average horsies, nothing wrong with that, I dont see anyone else doing it. I've said it will do an 11.49 and it will, 1 day  No matter what way you look at it, sub 12secs times are special in road going daily drivers, it's supercar performance, but hey that's just my opinion.

I wish Jonny all the best in this and cant wait to see a TTRS in the 10's 8)


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## bigsyd (Jul 9, 2008)

I think the only physical way that I could save weight in our RS .....is for me not to drive the thing  :lol: keep up the good work Johnny . Have you managed to get the PP fitted yet


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

I mostly looking forward to the Turbo manifold you will use.


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

R5T said:


> I mostly looking forward to the Turbo manifold you will use.





R5T said:


> I mostly looking forward to the Turbo manifold you will use.


Yeah.. I know, you have mentioned that already dude


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

There are plans afoot for an event in March whilst its still fresh outside to see what these MK2 RS things are all about and hopefully with enough persuasion and cajouling we can get to see something special happening.

Its all secret for now, but, not for long.
Steve


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

30-130 is traditionally in march also!


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

TTRS_500 said:


> 30-130 is traditionally in march also!


Hopefully the excuses havn't started already but lets just hope it doesn't clash.
Do you know what date your rolling sprint is ?
Steve


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

V6RUL said:


> TTRS_500 said:
> 
> 
> > 30-130 is traditionally in march also!
> ...


usually around mid month.

Please dont clash :?


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

V6RUL said:


> There are plans afoot for an event in March whilst its still fresh outside to see what these MK2 RS things are all about and hopefully with enough persuasion and cajouling we can get to see something special happening.
> 
> Its all secret for now, but, not for long.
> Steve


Sounds very interesting! When can we know more??


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

jonnyc said:


> V6RUL said:
> 
> 
> > There are plans afoot for an event in March whilst its still fresh outside to see what these MK2 RS things are all about and hopefully with enough persuasion and cajouling we can get to see something special happening.
> ...


Until Charlie, Frakay and myself have finalised some points, its just a case of looking out for the Event to pop up.
Steve


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

Damn I have been coerced onto the dark side by a great looking build thread 

Sounds awesome Jonny - Looking forward to seeing the outcome 8)


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

V6RUL said:


> jonnyc said:
> 
> 
> > V6RUL said:
> ...


Hopefully something up north, no further south than Elvington please.


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## bigsyd (Jul 9, 2008)

frakay100 said:


> Damn I have been coerced onto the dark side by a great looking build thread
> 
> Sounds awesome Jonny - Looking forward to seeing the outcome 8)


Its the 1st small step that is the hardest m8 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

bigsyd said:


> frakay100 said:
> 
> 
> > Damn I have been coerced onto the dark side by a great looking build thread
> ...


 I did have a TTS for the weekend, I have to say I didn't like it in the slightest so won't be stepping any further :lol:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jonnyc said:


> There will be plenty of GTR's that can beat it for sure.. In the UK too probably!! 1000hp is just mighty!..
> 
> I think it would probably be good for a mid to low 10 second run at around 140ish MPH with those stats.. It will just be silly fast which is what I want to be honest!
> 
> ...


Still an awesome achievement. Only the very big build GT-R's are in the low-mid 10's & the 9's are cars with as near as doesn't matter 1K bhp. Mine is likely a high 10 car but i've never run on a drag strip so no real idea. May have a go next year to tick the box

Great effort Jonny, i can't wait to see the car


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Any progress the last 10 day's. :?:


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

jonnyc said:


> R5T said:
> 
> 
> > Any plans for a twin fuel rail. ?
> ...


Interesting.


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Almost there..










Woop Woop!!


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Is the Revo turbo still on it or something else. ?


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

At the moment yes


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Fist fire up today.. Runs sweet! And smoother than ever before, which isn't a surprise to be honest!

Tomorrow we complete the heat cycle phase and will move on to initial break in which will consist of 15-20 miles running through the gears and then change then move on to bedding the rings..

There is only one way to break these engines in.. So by tomorrow evening I expect to have the job done!.. Can't wait to see how it feels with the new engine!  wish me luck!


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## joehirth (Oct 12, 2011)

jonnyc said:


> Fist fire up today.. Runs sweet! And smoother than ever before, which isn't a surprise to be honest!
> 
> Tomorrow we complete the heat cycle phase and will move on to initial break in which will consist of 15-20 miles running through the gears and then change then move on to bedding the rings..
> 
> There is only one way to break these engines in.. So by tomorrow evening I expect to have the job done!.. Can't wait to see how it feels with the new engine!  wish me luck!


How are you running the engine in? Please don't pussy foot about when getting those rings bedded!

Are you running solid cam lifters or hydraulic?

Looks amazing


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

- First fire up to full temp and cool
- Second fire to full temp and cool
- Change oil
- 15 to 20 miles of running through gears
- Cool and check over everything
- Around 1 hr of bedding the rings
- 150 to 200 miles hard
- Change oil to funny synthetic
- Have fun!..

The whole process will be around 300 miles tops and take about a day..


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

jonnyc said:


> - First fire up to full temp and cool
> - Second fire to full temp and cool
> - Change oil
> - 15 to 20 miles of running through gears
> ...


Motorsport method of running in engines? All my jap mates run their engines in for months on end but then majority of the time they still blow up anyway :lol:


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## joehirth (Oct 12, 2011)

jonnyc said:


> - First fire up to full temp and cool
> - Second fire to full temp and cool
> - Change oil
> - 15 to 20 miles of running through gears
> ...


Good stuff, that's the only way, or you'll end up with glazed bores and have to re-hone the bores and start again! Always good to put load on the engine whilst braking by using the gears to slow you down too . Best of luck.


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

jonnyc said:


> - First fire up to full temp and cool
> - Second fire to full temp and cool
> - Change oil
> - 15 to 20 miles of running through gears
> ...


Where can I get some of this funny oil? Take it iPhone predictive text strikes again :lol:

Good stuff JC, is the turbo ready yet? I take it a redesigned exhaust manifold? Is it 1 piece as per OEM or 2 piece? Any timeframe on this?


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## David L (Aug 28, 2010)

jonnyc said:


> Almost there..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whats the part# for that air duct?

I could only find a 8J0 825 319 B in Etka and that is for left side.


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

What?.. You by heard of funny synthetic?!.. Haha.. iPhone yep!..

Just at the garage now, wheels just going on.. Second heat cycle and oil change done, ready for initial on road break it..

As its been said, this is the only way to break engines in!.. Ring light on them does them way more harm than good!!..


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Car is back home! Feels brilliant to have it back..

Rings bedded earlier and engine is crisp responsive and sounds great! Very hard edged note already.. Interesting!

Targetting to get 200 miles on it tomorrow, and then back to the garage Friday morning for another check up!..

Also new seats are in, thanks to Rob for the rails!..

I'll get some pics up tomorrow!


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

Congrats!

Question: what did they do as part of a heat cycle? Driving it? revving it? Or idle till operating temperature?

I'm just curious. Best running in I did up till now was with a Honda Civic back in 2008. We collected the new car from the garage and drove 150 miles in one go. Using the A and B roads. Lots of speed changes shifting up and down. More throttle and less throttle. All variations of accelerating, putting more stress on the engine as the miles passed by. After 125 miles even my wife noticed that the engine was loosing it's slightly rough sound. Then we parked it for an hour. Started it up again and went to Germany where we took it up to 115mph a couple of times. (15 mph below top speed). We drove it all the way back home again over A and B roads. 275 miles on one day of very labour intensive driving. Engine hasn't used a drop of oil since and performs well. And my wife could take it to her office the next Monday without worrying about the engine. 
It's a shame I couldn't afford a new TT. Otherwise I would have run it in exactly the same. I think I've always been too careful with braking in engines. Then it takes up to 60k miles until the engine really starts to perform. The Civic responded well to this treatment. I guess you're about to do the same thing with your engine now. Keep us posted


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## joehirth (Oct 12, 2011)

Heat cycling is usually getting it up to temps and allowing it to cool naturally. Idle on the spot upto temps and then allow to cool without moving the car.

I would of thought it was the same as this engine has been through.


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

David L said:


> Whats the part# for that air duct?
> 
> I could only find a 8J0 825 319 B in Etka and that is for left side.


No idea sorry 



joehirth said:


> Heat cycling is usually getting it up to temps and allowing it to cool naturally. Idle on the spot upto temps and then allow to cool without moving the car.
> 
> I would of thought it was the same as this engine has been through.


Yep.. That's exactly how I did it 

Little update too..

First fire up of the forged 2.6L TTRS engine!!..


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

jonnyc said:


> First fire up of the forged 2.6L TTRS engine!!..


Thx.

Time to change the subject title. 2.6L TTRS.... looks weird :mrgreen:


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## sTTranger (Oct 21, 2008)

wheres the image :?


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## conneem (Nov 4, 2006)

sTTranger said:


> wheres the image :?


It's a video


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

jonnyc said:


> http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o304/jonnnny28/9765dbe6.mp4


 :wink:


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## sTTranger (Oct 21, 2008)

sorry guy im not very clued up when it comes to this stuff, but does going from a 2.5 to 2.6 (from what i understand) make a big difference?


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

sTTranger said:


> sorry guy im not very clued up when it comes to this stuff, but does going from a 2.5 to 2.6 (from what i understand) make a big difference?


not massively, but everylittle helps


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Going from 2480,16cc to 2541,88cc is 61,72 cc equals ± 8.5 ps on a stock 340 ps engine.
The bigger the tune the bigger the effect of the 61.72cc.


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

I can feel the CC change already even running stock software at the moment.. More grunty, engine sounds different (that's probably the head work) and there is noticeably more top end too..

It's all good..


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

:?


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

V6RUL said:


> :?


????


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Not so sure that a rebore would show that much that it would be noticeable.
Ive gone from a 3.2 to a 3.3 and ive not got any extra noticeable uuuuummmmmfffffff.

Hows the car running now you've had her back for over a week ?
I went for the slow running in proccess as that what was advised with frequent changes of the Millers and now im on 10/40 semi and she is running sweet.
Steve


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

I also had engine internals super-finished, lightened etc etc plus a load of head work plus the extra displacement.. So its all of that stuff which has worked..

Car was ran in and bedded like a race engine.. Running in slowly, especially when changing the oil frequently can cause the bored to polish up and you never quite get the most out of the engine.. Its preference though I suppose.

Its now running with OEM software, for the run in.. And I can tell you, it feels A LOT faster than a standard car.. Can't wait to wind it up!.. Next week, it will be running everything back at full potential to see what difference the engine work has made..

Then.. Back apart again for the turbo work to begin


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Ive tried to bed her in easy, whilst avoiding glazing.
You may want to keep an eye on your oil consumption if your running an open breather as im creating too much misting and will be fitting a Provent 200 if it will fit in and running a closed system again.
Have you leleased the turbo spec you will be running yet ?
Steve


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Oil consumption since the oil change post the rings being bedded is unmeasurable on the dip stick.. Seems like its not using a drop.. And I can't see that changing really.. Which is good news 

Yeah, posted over on VagoC last week..

-----

I have had some great success with the Hybrid turbo that I had made by Owen Developments, stock like bottom end but a load more boost and flow up top.. Holding 1.55bar to 7700rpm.

Just as a comparison, thats 0.35bar more than the Loba turbo can manage at the same RPM and 0.75 more than the stock turbo!!..

The car is really quite fast, and drives lovely, but I suppose, I have a problem that I don't quite know where to stop.. So that turbo will be removed soon, and replaced with a full custom turbo kit.. Details of which ill get to when the kit is on the car..

What I can show is the turbo that I have selected, and also some specs too..

Owen Developments 'Race' 35R

Owen Developments HTA3582R
HTA 82mm Billet Compressor wheel
Bullet Compressor nut
WRC BB conversion
WRC Inconel Bearing cages
Race exhaust cover bolts & Brackets
Anodised ported cover
Ported exhaust
Tial .82 AR Exhaust cover

And some pics!!!


















































Plus I will be running a water-cooled Tial MV-R 44mm waste gate..










Thats about where im at for now..


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## talk-torque (Apr 30, 2008)

Hi Jonny. Interesting reading this - I'm following avidly! What does picture #5 show?

Good luck with the next stage.


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Thats the Tial Sport SS Exhaust housing..


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

So, we are running similar turbos HTA3582R vs GT35/T04z..will be nice to see which comes out on top.
I ran a 44mm tial wastegate which didn't have enough capacity to dump, so im now running a 45mm turbosmart which is a lot better.
Some nice pics, hopefully it wont be too long before its all together so you can give some views.
Steve


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

What boost were you having problems with? Remember mine is only a 2.6L and so 44mm (especially with the new MVR, which flows way more than the old 44mm Tial gate) should be more than enough.. Plus, I like the water cooling too.

Really hoping to get up and running soon, really looking forward to it!!


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

I didn't have an issue with boost which was 1.8 bar, but I set the overboost at 2.2 bar which made her run lean and..bingo.
My Turbosmart was expensive, so your Tial must be quite a bit more.

It's going to be interesting next year.. 8) 
Steve


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Congrats Jonny stunning build nice to see it built properly, run in and performing


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## McKenzie (Dec 25, 2008)

Looking like an epic engine build. Get some on-board footage of some runs in that, would be very interesting to see. Do you think the gearbox and driveshafts are strong enough to take that power? Thought the driveshafts were already a weak point?


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

no one has broken any driveshafts yet as far as im aware!


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Was going to say.. As far as I know no one has broken shafts or the gearbox from excessive power or torque..

I have done about 50+ 7000rpm clutch dumps on my car and every time feels fine.. The VAG stuff is strong!!..

I am considering super finishing the gearbox and diffs internals though.. Just need to see.. It would reduce losses and increase strength dramatically!!..


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## joehirth (Oct 12, 2011)

jonnyc said:


> Was going to say.. As far as I know no one has broken shafts or the gearbox from excessive power or torque..
> 
> I have done about 50+ 7000rpm clutch dumps on my car and every time feels fine.. The VAG stuff is strong!!..
> 
> I am considering super finishing the gearbox and diffs internals though.. Just need to see.. It would reduce losses and increase strength dramatically!!..


What's super finishing all about?

Gearbox I would cryogenically freeze personally. Or take a look at the SQS gearsets... Porn!!


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

Jonny,that turbo set up looks awesome! I'm running a hta billet wheel conversion from owens on my car and it hits 2 bar by 4k on a 2 litre  that is gonna be mega on a 2.6 litre oh and i'm glad to see you ran it in the proper way :wink:


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

What turbo mate?.. 3076? Or 35?


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Looking forward to what APR are launching very soon.

Its with manifold und alles. Should be 550-600hp capable. Seen the dev. pictures and it looks very promising.


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

jonnyc said:


> What turbo mate?.. 3076? Or 35?


If thats aimed at me then mines based on a gt30


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

caney said:


> jonnyc said:
> 
> 
> > What turbo mate?.. 3076? Or 35?
> ...


Yes mate  .. Cool, that's not too bad on a stroked 1.8 .. What CR are you running?


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Mule said:


> Looking forward to what APR are launching very soon.
> 
> Its with manifold und alles. Should be 550-600hp capable. Seen the dev. pictures and it looks very promising.


I've touched it.. And I agree


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

The APR Turbo Development is the only one that make sense.
650 hp with stage 3 is not unlikely.
But APR will not sell single parts, only full turbo kit.

It will look something like this 2.0TFSI kit.


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

jonnyc said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> > Looking forward to what APR are launching very soon.


Around second quarter 2012.


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

jonnyc said:


> caney said:
> 
> 
> > jonnyc said:
> ...


Higher than my previous build which was 8:5:1 cr,this one is 9:5:1 i think.


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

jonnyc said:


> R5T said:
> 
> 
> > Any plans for a twin fuel rail. ?
> ...


 :wink:

View attachment 1


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

That's kinda what I had in mind.. Who has done that hans?


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

jonnyc said:


> That's kinda what I had in mind.. Who has done that hans?


Franco Alosa.


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

I could be purswaded to the APR kit when launched.

Nice trouble free tried and tested and unlike Revo, they usually keep deadlines


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

What's this thread got to do with Revo?..


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Nothing....Just a fact  Something like fact = Sun gets up every morning



jonnyc said:


> What's this thread got to do with Revo?..


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

They put a lot of time and development in it.
Sadly enough they will not sell the turbo manifold separately.


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

I understand why, but you can buy the kit and start from scratch.

In the US it will sell for around 4-5000$ which is a reasonable price considered the powergains of they hold up.

Close to 600 on a Garrett GT35 will give a lot of lag, but make the car fly above 4000rpm.

From there its just a matter of temperament...



R5T said:


> They put a lot of time and development in it.
> Sadly enough they will not sell the turbo manifold separately.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Mule said:


> I understand why, but you can buy the kit and start from scratch.
> 
> In the US it will sell for around 4-5000$ which is a reasonable price considered the powergains of they hold up.
> 
> ...


You wont be getting much lag if its mated to an S-Tronic.
Steve


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

You are wright Steve, but it depends on how you drive. Not much lag on the 1/4mile but if you do a 6th gear pull from 1000 rpm, then the std. car would be significantly faster....

So its two scenarios and I know which one I would prefer. 

Thats why I am very satisfied with the LOBA unit and even if it dont make 530hp, then be it. We havent had any progress on the car yet due to lack of parts from Audi.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

A 6th gear pull in an S-Tronic at 1000rpm isnt possible and if it were i think it would kick down a few gears.
I think the best you may get is a 6th gear pull at 2500rpm and staying in 6th.

Ive had my kickdown removed in M mode, so in theory i could do it but i wouldn't try to put big torque through my box at such low rpm, its not worth it.
Steve


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Are you talking Rothe Motorsport Hans???

I havent seen anything on their site and nothing nowhere...


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Mule said:


> Are you talking Rothe Motorsport Hans???
> 
> I havent seen anything on their site and nothing nowhere...


Yes, i found out that they did a internal engine upgrade, a compressor upgrade on the OEM turbo, a big intercooler, exhaust upgrade and software.(580 hp and 650 Nm)
I'm very disappointed in the German tuners, all wend the Hybrid way more or less, and HGP-Turbo was running two prototypes but put them on ice in favour of the 2.0TFSI program.
I have no idea if there still is something going on or not. 
APR will be the first with a decent turbo kit, (stage 3) but it will take another 4 to 6 months before it will be available.
I think stage 1 and 2 will be upgrades on the OEM turbo with: intake, exhaust, cat's, intercooler and software, stage 3 will be the new turbo IMHO.


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

One has to think what the target is...

Std. car has 340hp....Loba can push it beyond 500. With 500 iot is a 47% increase in power.

Should you transfer that to a R8 V10 with 525hp, then it will end up at 772hp....The figures speak for themselves. I think the APR kit would end up around 550-580hp range. One should consider if its worth it...

Loba keeps the OEM appearance and driveability. A bigger Garrett turbo would not.


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

I can assure you that the APR will not look that different on top.
They keep the compressor on the same side as OEM.


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Yes....but Audi would know its different 

And then the warranty and maybe the insurance wont cover anything in case of an incident...


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

jonnyc said:


> TT-driver said:
> 
> 
> > Exciting topic!
> ...


MRC seem to be doing something just now, pics of the inlet ports, minimal carbon which differs from your observation?....

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =1&theater


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

Oh and Jonny, this isn't yours is it? Turncoat, your missus will divorce you :wink:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =1&theater

Looks like Murpheus is upto something?


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## MTW (Sep 16, 2009)

awesome read, good to see you really pushing the boundary's in this, looked and went awesome at GTI inters, actually almost bought it when you put it up for sale a while back, glad to see you kept it!


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Love Mules comments on that thread.. What a total tool!!.. Aahaha!!

And no, it's not mine.. That's Matt black


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Back on topic..

The car is running great!.. Noticeably faster than before.. Will get some GoPro speedo footage and also some new V-Box times too.. Just want to see what's possible with the Hybrid before I go to the next stage!!..

As for lacking behind Mule.. Get real!!.. You act like a 10yr old in the playground!!.. Lol..


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Would the throttle unit of the USA 2.5 Jetta/Rabbit engine fit the TT RS engine. ?


















btw, this looks nice.


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Yes but you would have the ditch the FSI.. No one has yet built an inlet manifold to suit the 2.5T FSI


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

The FSI is in the cylindar head...not the intake manifold.

Injection pressure can be regulated on the TFSI, better fuel distribution and better fuel charge inside the combustion chamber during the injection process the fuel gets evaporated, cooling the cylinder chamber. Higher compression ratios, which translates into more powerand increased fuel combustion efficiency.

So everything is happening inside the cylindar head.

But the intake manifold is of a very good design OEM, so why change it?

http://www.elitedubs.com/index.php/topic,2275.0.html


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## VSPURS (Aug 31, 2008)

This is looking good!
Can't wait to see how it performs.

Nice one Johnny!


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Mule I'm aware that the FSI is in the cylinder head.. Lol.. Just remember that the intake manifold holds in the injectors hence my comment..


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

I know but i guess it would act as supplementary fuel and not a replacement...

With the dual injector rail, one could add fuel and NOS at the same time


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

Lovin this thread, should be interesting to see the finished product at Inters.

I aint even gonna ask what the cost of this build is 8)


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

This is the Abt Sportsline intercooler, looks interesting because it's going up behind the crash-bar.


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

But the flow is VERY bad.....


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

Nice Jonny

Been a while since I checked your thread. Looks like progress has been good and looking sweet 

What power are you expecting from the first map session?

The 8N forum is getting a bit dull now :? :lol:


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## TTS_illa (Nov 27, 2011)

You ever thought of entering a round of Time Attack Jonny? would be interesting to see how it stacks up against the ever dominating Evo's and scooby's?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

TTS_illa said:


> You ever thought of entering a round of Time Attack Jonny? would be interesting to see how it stacks up against the ever dominating Evo's and scooby's?


He has :wink:

Check out 9th place on the current leaderboard. IIRC Jonny has since posted better times but the leaderboard is yet to be updated.

http://www.howfast.co.uk/leaderboard.aspx


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

That time was completed in a Loba TTRS with circa 450hp on the day.. Road tyres and stock suspension..

I'll be going back in mine with considerably more power and handling mods and should be able to take a good amount of time off that..

The aim will be to be fastest of the road legal cars, shame the 'how fast' events will soon be dominated by put and out race cars that are trailered to events etc..


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## TTS_illa (Nov 27, 2011)

I'm part of the team that runs the European Drift Championship and the Time Attack series. We're starting to get some more euro entries now, though the 1000hp Evo's do kill it....but the gob stopper may be making an appearance this year 

It would good to see a TTRS in the field among the usual......


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Get an event going at the Nurburgring and I will be there!

It will sort the men from the boys...and HP doesnt mean much downthere!



TTS_illa said:


> I'm part of the team that runs the European Drift Championship and the Time Attack series. We're starting to get some more euro entries now, though the 1000hp Evo's do kill it....but the gob stopper may be making an appearance this year
> 
> It would good to see a TTRS in the field among the usual......


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

TTS_illa said:


> I'm part of the team that runs the European Drift Championship and the Time Attack series. We're starting to get some more euro entries now, though the 1000hp Evo's do kill it....but the gob stopper may be making an appearance this year
> 
> It would good to see a TTRS in the field among the usual......


is there a full interior class lol?


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## TTS_illa (Nov 27, 2011)

Full interior not an issue 

The escort cossie that runs about 650hp in pro club has a stereo, and 80% of the interior intact and he finished 3rd in last years championship. We had an R35 show up for the last round at Snetterton, who just basically stuck some stickers on, signed up and joined in.


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