# Taking it to the next level....



## clived (May 6, 2002)

So, you've got yourself a big turbo conversion. It's great. You're used to the power. What do you do next? :evil: 

How does a 2100cc engine using...
Longer stroke crank[/*]
Pauter 'H' section rods[/*]
Custom forged pistons[/*]
ARP conrod bolts[/*]
Gasflowed and ported cylinder head[/*]
...sound? Oh and add in a Dahlback inlet manifold and new custom map (obviously) for good measure too....


----------



## DXN (May 18, 2002)

and why not eh.......


----------



## UK225 (May 12, 2002)

Sounds good to me 

You certainly know how to make someone feel envious :wink:

Who will you commision to carry out the work ?


----------



## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

Sounds like you've put "Project Lounge" on hold already Clive :lol:

How's the new exhaust?


----------



## UK225 (May 12, 2002)

Clive if you havent seen this thread from SCN it could be of some interest to you http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54865


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

UK225 said:


> Who will you commision to carry out the work ?


Not who *will* I commission Morgan..... ;-) TSR Performance for the mechanicals, and someone I'm keeping up my sleeve for the moment (little voice: "let me out" ;-) ) for the mapping.



NaughTTy said:


> Sounds like you've put "Project Lounge" on hold already Clive :lol:
> 
> How's the new exhaust?


Yes, just don't tell Nicola!

Exhaust is great - I'll post about it later.


----------



## L7 (Aug 27, 2004)

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


----------



## Gworks (Jan 20, 2003)

clived said:


> So, you've got yourself a big turbo conversion. It's great. You're used to the power. What do you do next? :evil:
> 
> How does a 2100cc engine using...
> Longer stroke crank[/*]
> ...


Couldn't keep it in hey Clive!!!? :roll: :wink: Hope it all goes well buddy and let us all know the outcome if you put it up on a RR.

Glen.


----------



## garvin (May 7, 2002)

clived said:


> So, you've got yourself a big turbo conversion. It's great. You're used to the power. What do you do next? :evil:
> 
> How does a 2100cc engine using...
> Longer stroke crank[/*]
> ...


Blimey ........... this takes me back a bit. I used to do this sort of things to my cars back in the late 70's ........... yes, unfortunately, I am that old. I used to spend hours ........ nay days ......... porting and polishing cylinder heads by myself and matching them to the inlet and exhaust manifolds - as well as gas flowing the valves. Are you going to strengthen the crank in any way or is the stock item on the 4 pot man-enough for the job?

Hopefully the longer stroke should put a bit of torque back at the lower end of the rev range - should be a good match for the big turbo!


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

Gworks said:


> Couldn't keep it in hey Clive!!!?


What, my Amex in my pocket?  Hadn't paid my deposit yesterday Glen and don't like to go public with things I'm "thinking about" doing!


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

Garvin, the longer stroke crank is a VAG OEM part, but they are all forged.... should be fine


----------



## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

I take it you are going to dump the standard ECU for a more flexible unit ?

Nearly getting to the realms of 8 injectors too 8)

How about NOS ? - not for full power but for bringing the turbo on boost with a small squirt at low revs to get some exhaust gas out to get it spinning.

Will be interested to see more on this.

James.


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

coupe-sport said:


> I take it you are going to dump the standard ECU for a more flexible unit ?
> 
> Nearly getting to the realms of 8 injectors too 8)
> 
> ...


James - no. Looked at it, but it seems that thoee who don't think the Bosch item is up to the job a) sell something else and b) don't have the deep deep experience of working with the OEM unit... and I've found someone who does...

NOS is a possibility later. Will need to run the new engine in first and get used to it and then decide if NOS is needed...


----------



## Multiprocess (Aug 9, 2004)

What you doing with the old engine?


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

Exchanging it.


----------



## jonno (May 7, 2002)

Sounds like a novel approach clive.
What sort of numbers are you hoping to see?


----------



## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

> James - no. Looked at it, but it seems that thoee who don't think the Bosch item is up to the job a) sell something else and b) don't have the deep deep experience of working with the OEM unit... and I've found someone who does...


True - but i'm just thinking of flexibility - multi injector set ups and the like. Big injectors for high power mean possible emissions probs. But if you've got it sorted... 8)


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

jonno said:


> Sounds like a novel approach clive.
> What sort of numbers are you hoping to see?


Not sure it's novel Jonno, just that not many TT owners have gone down this route. TSR have done a lot of this sort of work on 4, 5 and 6 cylinder VAG engines, so someone must be driving them 

The work has been designed with an objective of increasing torque across the rev range to improve overall drivability and "oomph" (well, apart from the Dahlback inlet manifold - that's a power mod ;-) ), so I haven't set a "this must be a 400bhp car" objective or anything. However, it's a 17% increase in engine capacity, a better flowing head, better intake air pressure and stronger internals so more boost capability, so 380-400bhp should be on the cards.


----------



## purplett (Dec 9, 2002)

*Phwoar* 8)

Andy


----------



## Jazzedout (May 8, 2002)

I believe MTM does something similar as well. 2.1lt will certainly reduce the lag of the bigger turbo! 8)


----------



## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

And there was me thinking that putting a chrome dipstick handle on was being adventerous 

Pleased for you Clive but extremely envious :wink:

Well done mate.

Graham


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

Jazzedout said:


> I believe MTM does something similar as well. 2.1lt will certainly reduce the lag of the bigger turbo! 8)


MTM do produce a 2.0 conversion. It's just the engine has to make it over to Germany...


----------



## jonno (May 7, 2002)

Think I recall APR doing a 2L convesion, maybe it was in the US only (?)


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

Guys, lots of companies can put the required bits together. The tricky bit is finding someone with the experience to put them all together correctly and do the engineering work.


----------



## Jazzedout (May 8, 2002)

clived said:


> Guys, lots of companies can put the required bits together. The tricky bit is finding someone with the experience to put them all together correctly and do the engineering work.


you can say that again... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


----------



## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Having driven Clives car as it currently is... I can say he REALLY needs more power as it is just a little on the slow side :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Silversea (Jun 18, 2002)

Eurospec are selling 2.2 20vt engines... :lol:

I have started to collect the parts to build up a 1900 engine, AGU gas flowed big port head with inconel & one piece EV80 stainless nitrided valves, 83mm JE forged pistons, Pauter rods and just received my IHI VF22 this morning.  
Should keep me busy......


----------



## len.faria (Jul 7, 2004)

05:10hrs gmt+1 and im druleling..... :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

Silversea said:


> Eurospec are selling 2.2 20vt engines... :lol:
> 
> I have started to collect the parts to build up a 1900 engine, AGU gas flowed big port head with inconel & one piece EV80 stainless nitrided valves, 83mm JE forged pistons, Pauter rods and just received my IHI VF22 this morning.
> Should keep me busy......


it's not a competition you know :wink: i thought the ihi to have to produce 350+ was the ihi vf34?


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

Silversea said:


> Eurospec are selling 2.2 20vt engines... :lol:
> 
> I have started to collect the parts to build up a 1900 engine, AGU gas flowed big port head with inconel & one piece EV80 stainless nitrided valves, 83mm JE forged pistons, Pauter rods and just received my IHI VF22 this morning.
> Should keep me busy......


I'd be concerned about wall thickness on a 2.2 engine (I had to be convinced it would be ok on a 2.1) - be very unfortunate to have a cylinder wall melt. Still, it's ok, you're not going for a 2.2. The other issue with Eurospec is that they are in the US... and don't appear to have a UK distributor. I'd much rather use someone who can show me engines they have built in the UK...

Agree with Caney though re the VF, but obviously you're party to all that information on Audi Sport Silversea, so I'm sure you've gone in eyes open. I'm sure that if nothing else the 22 is "better value" than a 34, so you should be getting good bhp/Â£ !


----------



## Silversea (Jun 18, 2002)

caney said:


> i thought the ihi to have to produce 350+ was the ihi vf34?


The VF34 is smaller than the VF22, it will produce a little more lag but should be good for over 400hp where as the VF34 will be max'd out at about 350hp. 
After talking with Turbo Dynamics it turns out that you can use some of the VF34 compressor parts on the 22 to improve efficiency and minimise lag so that might be an idea.


----------



## Nando (Feb 5, 2004)

Clive - what percentage increase have you seen with your insurance (post BTC)?

What would you expect with the planned mods?

Cheers
Ryan


----------



## Silversea (Jun 18, 2002)

clived said:


> I'd be concerned about wall thickness on a 2.2 engine (I had to be convinced it would be ok on a 2.1) - be very unfortunate to have a cylinder wall melt. Still, it's ok, you're not going for a 2.2. The other issue with Eurospec is that they are in the US... and don't appear to have a UK distributor. I'd much rather use someone who can show me engines they have built in the UK...
> 
> Agree with Caney though re the VF, but obviously you're party to all that information on Audi Sport Silversea, so I'm sure you've gone in eyes open. I'm sure that if nothing else the 22 is "better value" than a 34, so you should be getting good bhp/Â£ !


Clive the 2.2 frome EuroSpec is using a thick walled diesel block and a 100mm crank rather than the 95.8 that other tuners use. I'd think you'll find that the bore size would be the same as the 2.1 it's just the stroke that will bring it up to 2.2.

As you mention Clive there is loads of information on the other forums (Seat Cupra and Golf forums) they seem a good bit further down the road than we do here.


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

Silversea said:


> Clive the 2.2 frome EuroSpec is using a thick walled diesel block and a 100mm crank rather than the 95.8 that other tuners use. I'd think you'll find that the bore size would be the same as the 2.1 it's just the stroke that will bring it up to 2.2.


That's good news for those who have access to the kit ...although it doesn't help with the fact that they don't have a UK distributor of course ;-) And no price on the website. Do you know the cost for their full kit, plus shipping, plus fitting by the nearest agent (Germany?) with experience of fitting to a RHD car?


Silversea said:


> As you mention Clive there is loads of information on the other forums (Seat Cupra and Golf forums) they seem a good bit further down the road than we do here.


I'm not sure it's fair to say the other forums are further down the road - how many 4WD big turbo, big bore converted cars are their on the Seat and Golf forums? None? They are only further down the road in fitting big turbo kits to FWD cars - a much simpler proposition than for 4WD cars. Actually, that also brings up the question of who is manufacturing the downpipe for your conversion? Right now I only know of one company that has moved beyond saying they have / will have one to actually having one for RHD, and that's MTM.


----------



## iluxa (Feb 18, 2005)

Thats a nice set up you are going for clived.I am at the moment going over a huge dilema on whether to go for IHI setup with NOS like one of our friends car or try something bigger with either 2/2.1L size increase and BIG TURBO.I have been thinking for long time and still can not come up with a decision.Anyway,at what stage is your car?Give us some news.


----------



## TTej (Sep 10, 2003)

simply awesome Clive 8)

i will now go and wash all this green paint of my face. lol :lol:

will this mean the car will finally get an 'R' infront of that 'S'


----------



## bmx (May 25, 2003)

very nice, i thought you scraped the dahlbach inlet manifold idea, and went for a ported vag one, or am i a bit behind here 

ps this thread is like an old school reunion 8)


----------



## KenTT (Feb 20, 2005)

Iâ€™ve been eagerly awaiting for this post, canâ€™t wait to see the RR one now.


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

Blimey, blast from the past indeed 

The Dhalback manifold was scrapped (well, sold ;-) ) as there was not enough material to enlarge the ports.... and as I've gone for a large port head for max top end power to compliment that 2.1l torque, I needed a large port manifold - so went for the Jabba one - luckily Bill Brockbank had the first mkI development version and I had the second. His burst at one of our track days at Castle Combe, so it was reworked by Jabba and the original never went onto my car - we went straight for their mkII with stronger welds.

This week the car is having a secondary in-line fuel pump and oil breather and baffled sump fitted (supplied by APS, fitted by VAGTech, as the car is living there currently). I'll then really be running out of excuses to be working out how big a turbo we can fit in the space available.....


----------



## JayGemson (Jun 8, 2004)

Damn Clive, that's serious tuning! Very interesting reading.

Makes a change from all these "look at my new wheels" threads :roll: Can't wait to see the finished article, exciting stuff.


----------



## JayGemson (Jun 8, 2004)

Oh forgot to ask... any drivetrain mods associated with this huge power? Uprated clutch/flywheel/etc. Can the haldex cope with that sort of torque transfer?


----------



## iluxa (Feb 18, 2005)

Which turbo are you going for?


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

JayGemson said:


> Oh forgot to ask... any drivetrain mods associated with this huge power? Uprated clutch/flywheel/etc. Can the haldex cope with that sort of torque transfer?


I had the MTM / Sachs paddle clutch fitted when I had the original MTM big turbo conversion done. Haldex controller was upgraded a while ago - not that it would help with handling the torque as such - however, as I understand it, the Haldex coupling can cope with huge amounts of torque, so don't anticipate a problem.



iluxa said:


> Which turbo are you going for?





clived said:


> I'll then really be running out of excuses to be working out how big a turbo we can fit in the space available.....


----------



## iluxa (Feb 18, 2005)

I want to see your car finished and than maybe I will copy the set up 

Good luck with it!!!


----------



## thebears (Jan 14, 2006)

iluxa said:


> I want to see your car finished and than maybe I will copy the set up
> 
> Good luck with it!!!


We *ALL *want to see the car finished


----------



## nutts (May 8, 2002)

I reckon Clive has sold it and he's just having us on :roll: :wink:

Has anyone actually seen Clives car in the last 12 months :lol: :lol:


----------



## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

nutts said:


> I reckon Clive has sold it and he's just having us on :roll: :wink:
> 
> Has anyone actually seen Clives car in the last 12 months :lol: :lol:


Jon at VagTech told me he was sick of having it at his workshop so he sold it :lol: :wink:


----------



## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

clived said:


> in the space available.....


there is no space! ask greig on that one :wink:


----------



## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

nutts said:


> Has anyone actually seen Clives car in the last 12 months :lol: :lol:


yep! at vagtech :lol:


----------



## bape (Jan 16, 2005)

Any updates on this?


----------



## KammyTT (Jun 28, 2006)

what sort of bhp do you expect to get from all this?? and what is it gonna cost you? when i get my remap i dont know what im going to do next.


----------



## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

bape said:


> Any updates on this?


yep still at vagtech been there since august :roll:


----------



## bape (Jan 16, 2005)

caney said:



> bape said:
> 
> 
> > Any updates on this?
> ...


Come on Clive, get cracking [smiley=whip.gif] :twisted:


----------



## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

Knowing Clive, I'm sure it will be worth the wait :wink:

Graham


----------



## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

nice one, this is the type of modding that i like to hear about :twisted:

Good luck..


----------

