# Big Brother...



## Dr_Parmar

bullying or racism? what do people think?


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## Dotti

Both! I adore Shilpa she is funny, calm and sweet unlike gobby Jade who is arrogant, uncouth and a pig leading the pack with Jo and piss taking poor Shilpa!


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## jampott

I haven't seen ANY evidence of racism. Its PC gone mad again, if you ask me.

Shilpa is behaving weird, and can't cook chicken, and she talks funny.

If she was white, then Jo, Jade etc would make exactly the same comments. That, to me, defines whether or not its "racist".


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## Dr_Parmar

jampott said:


> I haven't seen ANY evidence of racism. Its PC gone mad again, if you ask me.
> 
> Shilpa is behaving weird, and can't cook chicken, and she talks funny.
> 
> If she was white, then Jo, Jade etc would make exactly the same comments. That, to me, defines whether or not its "racist".


I disagree, i think its clearly bullying but with borderline racism, shilpa is no more irritating then anyone else in that place. Its a girl being singled out for being different, be it race, colour or creed.

Evidence of racism...

Mimicking her indian accent
Abusing her for eating with her hands, "is that why indians are all so thin?"
"Dont they live in huts in india!"
"That indian!" in a derogatory manner
Jack calling her a "Paki"

Im sorry Exactly what would you call racism? I shudder to think.


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## jampott

Dr_Parmar said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen ANY evidence of racism. Its PC gone mad again, if you ask me.
> 
> Shilpa is behaving weird, and can't cook chicken, and she talks funny.
> 
> If she was white, then Jo, Jade etc would make exactly the same comments. That, to me, defines whether or not its "racist".
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree, i think its clearly bullying but with borderline racism, shilpa is no more irritating then anyone else in that place. Its a girl being singled out for being different, be it race, colour or creed.
> 
> Evidence of racism...
> 
> Mimicking her indian accent
> Abusing her for eating with her hands, "is that why indians are all so thin?"
> "Dont they live in huts in india!"
> "That indian!" in a derogatory manner
> Jack calling her a "Paki"
> 
> Im sorry Exactly what would you call racism? I shudder to think.
Click to expand...

Mimicking someone's accent isn't racism.

I did hear someone ask about eating with hands in India. Racism? No. From what I know, it *is* common practice to do so - hence lots of different "breads" for scooping up with - but I have to say, I didn't hear the comment about Indians being thin.

How is saying "That indian." racist? It is common practice to refer to someone by some distinguishing feature or other.

Some of the housemates are ignorant and uneducated, but that doesn't mean they're racist per se. She hasn't been singled out because she's Indian, but because she insists on cooking (and can't), insists on eating when nobody else wants to, and is quite good at starting an argument, then (when it isn't going her way) holding her hand up and dismissing people.

I think its Shilpa that should think about the way she's behaving as much as any of the others.


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## jampott

> The trio also complained that Shilpa had touched other housemates' food with her hands.
> 
> Lloyd said: "You don't know where those hands have been."


Quite correct. You don't know where those hands have been. I'm 100% sure they would have said that about ANYONE who touched their food with their hands. I know I would.


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## Dr_Parmar

jampott said:


> Dr_Parmar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen ANY evidence of racism. Its PC gone mad again, if you ask me.
> 
> Shilpa is behaving weird, and can't cook chicken, and she talks funny.
> 
> If she was white, then Jo, Jade etc would make exactly the same comments. That, to me, defines whether or not its "racist".
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree, i think its clearly bullying but with borderline racism, shilpa is no more irritating then anyone else in that place. Its a girl being singled out for being different, be it race, colour or creed.
> 
> Evidence of racism...
> 
> Mimicking her indian accent
> Abusing her for eating with her hands, "is that why indians are all so thin?"
> "Dont they live in huts in india!"
> "That indian!" in a derogatory manner
> Jack calling her a "Paki"
> 
> Im sorry Exactly what would you call racism? I shudder to think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mimicking someone's accent isn't racism.
> 
> I did hear someone ask about eating with hands in India. Racism? No. From what I know, it *is* common practice to do so - hence lots of different "breads" for scooping up with - but I have to say, I didn't hear the comment about Indians being thin.
> 
> How is saying "That indian." racist? It is common practice to refer to someone by some distinguishing feature or other.
> 
> Some of the housemates are ignorant and uneducated, but that doesn't mean they're racist per se. She hasn't been singled out because she's Indian, but because she insists on cooking (and can't), insists on eating when nobody else wants to, and is quite good at starting an argument, then (when it isn't going her way) holding her hand up and dismissing people.
> 
> I think its Shilpa that should think about the way she's behaving as much as any of the others.
Click to expand...

*Ridiculous*! but i dont want to get involved in a long winded argument, i see this going on and on and on :roll:


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## foojeek

Didn't see too many huts when I was out there but plenty living on the streets.
No cutlery either. Or toilets.


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## jampott

> Jade Goody's mother, Jackiey Budden, repeatedly referred to Shilpa as "the Indian" while she was featured on the show and was unable to pronounce her name.


Again, that's hardly racist. Of all the women in the house, Shilpa is the only Indian, therefore it is a distinguishing feature. No more "racsit" than saying "the blonde one" or whatever.

For God's sake, Jackiey can't even pronounce the word "dilemma" - so you can see that in HER mind, calling Shilpa "The Indian" was less offensive than getting her name wrong all the time. It is all about context. Jackiey was being stupid, not racist, and calling her "The Indian" was just a poor attempt to cover up for her own inability to talk properly.


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## jampott

Dr_Parmar said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr_Parmar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen ANY evidence of racism. Its PC gone mad again, if you ask me.
> 
> Shilpa is behaving weird, and can't cook chicken, and she talks funny.
> 
> If she was white, then Jo, Jade etc would make exactly the same comments. That, to me, defines whether or not its "racist".
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree, i think its clearly bullying but with borderline racism, shilpa is no more irritating then anyone else in that place. Its a girl being singled out for being different, be it race, colour or creed.
> 
> Evidence of racism...
> 
> Mimicking her indian accent
> Abusing her for eating with her hands, "is that why indians are all so thin?"
> "Dont they live in huts in india!"
> "That indian!" in a derogatory manner
> Jack calling her a "Paki"
> 
> Im sorry Exactly what would you call racism? I shudder to think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mimicking someone's accent isn't racism.
> 
> I did hear someone ask about eating with hands in India. Racism? No. From what I know, it *is* common practice to do so - hence lots of different "breads" for scooping up with - but I have to say, I didn't hear the comment about Indians being thin.
> 
> How is saying "That indian." racist? It is common practice to refer to someone by some distinguishing feature or other.
> 
> Some of the housemates are ignorant and uneducated, but that doesn't mean they're racist per se. She hasn't been singled out because she's Indian, but because she insists on cooking (and can't), insists on eating when nobody else wants to, and is quite good at starting an argument, then (when it isn't going her way) holding her hand up and dismissing people.
> 
> I think its Shilpa that should think about the way she's behaving as much as any of the others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Ridiculous*! but i dont want to get involved in a long winded argument, i see this going on and on and on :roll:
Click to expand...

I don't know which bit you think is ridiculous, but be careful you aren't singling me out because of my colour... 

Seriously, impersonation (last time I checked) is just "one of those things". Are you seriously telling me that next time Alistair McGowan impersonates Trevor McDonald in order to make a joke, that he's a racist?

I think you need a slightly less reactionary attitude. :roll:


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## Dr_Parmar

jampott said:


> The trio also complained that Shilpa had touched other housemates' food with her hands.
> 
> Lloyd said: "You don't know where those hands have been."
> 
> 
> 
> Quite correct. You don't know where those hands have been. I'm 100% sure they would have said that about ANYONE who touched their food with their hands. I know I would.
Click to expand...

Ok i said i wouldnt get into a long winded discussion but i cant resist!

Just a thought, so they are happy for her to slice, cut, and make her food, obviously with her hands, but not happy for her to touch the end product? They are treating her as if she was their hired chef! I think that is what has been blown out of proportion!

There is an email doing the rounds with a link to a youtube video of jack calling the poor girl a "paki" whilst in bed with jade.

I found Jo mimicking her indian accent disturbing! Thats exactly how some of my friends were taunted when they were at school, its picking on what makes them different! Discrimination!

I just find this ganging up and bullying horrendous! be it racism or not,( i think it is!) it shows how cruel the human condition can be! I also disagree with the comment that shilpa brings this on herself, yes she is controlling, but nobodys deserves this kind of treatment.


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## Dr_Parmar

jampott said:


> Dr_Parmar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr_Parmar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen ANY evidence of racism. Its PC gone mad again, if you ask me.
> 
> Shilpa is behaving weird, and can't cook chicken, and she talks funny.
> 
> If she was white, then Jo, Jade etc would make exactly the same comments. That, to me, defines whether or not its "racist".
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree, i think its clearly bullying but with borderline racism, shilpa is no more irritating then anyone else in that place. Its a girl being singled out for being different, be it race, colour or creed.
> 
> Evidence of racism...
> 
> Mimicking her indian accent
> Abusing her for eating with her hands, "is that why indians are all so thin?"
> "Dont they live in huts in india!"
> "That indian!" in a derogatory manner
> Jack calling her a "Paki"
> 
> Im sorry Exactly what would you call racism? I shudder to think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mimicking someone's accent isn't racism.
> 
> I did hear someone ask about eating with hands in India. Racism? No. From what I know, it *is* common practice to do so - hence lots of different "breads" for scooping up with - but I have to say, I didn't hear the comment about Indians being thin.
> 
> How is saying "That indian." racist? It is common practice to refer to someone by some distinguishing feature or other.
> 
> Some of the housemates are ignorant and uneducated, but that doesn't mean they're racist per se. She hasn't been singled out because she's Indian, but because she insists on cooking (and can't), insists on eating when nobody else wants to, and is quite good at starting an argument, then (when it isn't going her way) holding her hand up and dismissing people.
> 
> I think its Shilpa that should think about the way she's behaving as much as any of the others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Ridiculous*! but i dont want to get involved in a long winded argument, i see this going on and on and on :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know which bit you think is ridiculous, but be careful you aren't singling me out because of my colour...
> 
> Seriously, impersonation (last time I checked) is just "one of those things". Are you seriously telling me that next time Alistair McGowan impersonates Trevor McDonald in order to make a joke, that he's a racist?
> 
> I think you need a slightly less reactionary attitude. :roll:
Click to expand...

LOL yea its your colour! 

so tell me, what would you classify as a racist comment?


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## ttroy225

jampott said:


> Dr_Parmar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr_Parmar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen ANY evidence of racism. Its PC gone mad again, if you ask me.
> 
> Shilpa is behaving weird, and can't cook chicken, and she talks funny.
> 
> If she was white, then Jo, Jade etc would make exactly the same comments. That, to me, defines whether or not its "racist".
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree, i think its clearly bullying but with borderline racism, shilpa is no more irritating then anyone else in that place. Its a girl being singled out for being different, be it race, colour or creed.
> 
> Evidence of racism...
> 
> Mimicking her indian accent
> Abusing her for eating with her hands, "is that why indians are all so thin?"
> "Dont they live in huts in india!"
> "That indian!" in a derogatory manner
> Jack calling her a "Paki"
> 
> Im sorry Exactly what would you call racism? I shudder to think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mimicking someone's accent isn't racism.
> 
> I did hear someone ask about eating with hands in India. Racism? No. From what I know, it *is* common practice to do so - hence lots of different "breads" for scooping up with - but I have to say, I didn't hear the comment about Indians being thin.
> 
> How is saying "That indian." racist? It is common practice to refer to someone by some distinguishing feature or other.
> 
> Some of the housemates are ignorant and uneducated, but that doesn't mean they're racist per se. She hasn't been singled out because she's Indian, but because she insists on cooking (and can't), insists on eating when nobody else wants to, and is quite good at starting an argument, then (when it isn't going her way) holding her hand up and dismissing people.
> 
> I think its Shilpa that should think about the way she's behaving as much as any of the others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Ridiculous*! but i dont want to get involved in a long winded argument, i see this going on and on and on :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know which bit you think is ridiculous, but be careful you aren't singling me out because of my colour...
> 
> Seriously, impersonation (last time I checked) is just "one of those things". Are you seriously telling me that next time Alistair McGowan impersonates Trevor McDonald in order to make a joke, that he's a racist?
> 
> I think you need a slightly less reactionary attitude. :roll:
Click to expand...

 Pot.. Kettle.. Black... :lol:


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## jampott

Dr_Parmar said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The trio also complained that Shilpa had touched other housemates' food with her hands.
> 
> Lloyd said: "You don't know where those hands have been."
> 
> 
> 
> Quite correct. You don't know where those hands have been. I'm 100% sure they would have said that about ANYONE who touched their food with their hands. I know I would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok i said i wouldnt get into a long winded discussion but i cant resist!
> 
> Just a thought, so they are happy for her to slice, cut, and make her food, obviously with her hands, but not happy for her to touch the end product? They are treating her as if she was their hired chef! I think that is what has been blown out of proportion!
> 
> There is an email doing the rounds with a link to a youtube video of jack calling the poor girl a "paki" whilst in bed with jade.
> 
> I found Jo mimicking her indian accent disturbing! Thats exactly how some of my friends were taunted when they were at school, its picking on what makes them different! Discrimination!
> 
> I just find this ganging up and bullying horrendous! be it racism or not,( i think it is!) it shows how cruel the human condition can be! I also disagree with the comment that shilpa brings this on herself, yes she is controlling, but nobodys deserves this kind of treatment.
Click to expand...

I've had the last couple of shows on "in the background" while doing other things, but as far as I could make out, Shilpa practically insists on doing the cooking, and they were miffed because she wouldn't let them help. When she DID let them help, she got the timings so badly wrong that the bits they were cooking was ruined. All because she wanted to be the one "in charge".

I still think there's a world of difference between impersonating someone (and lets face it, she does have a very "particular" way of talking - a mixture of VERY posh, some Indian, and some "put on"...) and "taunting" them.

We have to agree to differ here. I think that the very things that make people different are IMPORTANT, not something to be shoved to one side and ignored.

The only person who should take offence at the way she is being treated is Shilpa herself. 10,000 people phoning up to complain by proxy is just stupid.

Racism is a bad thing, but calling things which AREN'T racist "racism" is very very damaging indeed and doesn't do anyone any favours.


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## jampott

Racism is treating people differently based on their colour, race, creed etc.

I think they're reacting to the PERSON she is, not the RACE she belongs to.

If an Indian person is behaving like a twat, it is perfectly acceptable to say so, providing you aren't saying they are a twat because they're Indian.

Pussyfooting around the whole "racism" thing is just dull, if you ask me. If someone is in the minority, that doesn't automatically make anything you say about them "racist".


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## Dr_Parmar

I agree with your above post, BUT what i find discriminatory is..

Jack calling her a Paki! surely you cant call that anything but racist!
Mimicking her indian accent! (reminds me of the "bud bud bud" taunts i saw indian boys getting at school!)
Indian people eating with their hands, has she never had a fukin Macdonalds?!? (sorry i had to stick that in! fancy a Maccy D)

Its the comments aimed at indians in general that i find racist! 10000 complaints to ofcom and an Early Day motion in Parliament cant be wrong!


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## jampott

Dr_Parmar said:


> I agree with your above post, BUT what i find discriminatory is..
> 
> Jack calling her a Paki! surely you cant call that anything but racist!
> Mimicking her indian accent! (reminds me of the "bud bud bud" taunts i saw indian boys getting at school!)
> Indian people eating with their hands, has she never had a fukin Macdonalds?!? (sorry i had to stick that in! fancy a Maccy D)
> 
> Its the comments aimed at indians in general that i find racist! 10000 complaints to ofcom and an Early Day motion in Parliament cant be wrong!


If someone called her a Paki, I don't think that's acceptable. Of course not.

Mimicking the way she talks isn't racist. I think they're taking the piss out of the way she speaks - sure - but it isn't done in a general "bud bud bud" way - they're putting on her airs and graces and not labelling her with some generic accent. Even so, like I said in previous posts, impressionism is a valid comedy form. Nobody complains when someone mimics Trevor McDonald. What's the difference? People take the piss out of the way Jade speaks. And Danielle. That scouse accent is AWFUL, but it isn't racist to do so.

The exact comment about eating with hands escapes me right now - but whoever said it couldn't decide whether it was the Indians or Chinese that "eat with their hands". Its a bit like generalising that all French people shit in a hole in the ground. It doesn't mean anything, it isn't offensive - I think they were genuinely wondering why she had to mess with their food.

Unfortunately 10000 people CAN be wrong, and crying "Wolf" doesn't make the world a better place.

Shilpa is Indian. She's on the receiving end of some jokes, comments etc. Why do the 2 things *HAVE* to be connected?


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## Dr_Parmar

jampott said:


> Dr_Parmar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with your above post, BUT what i find discriminatory is..
> 
> Jack calling her a Paki! surely you cant call that anything but racist!
> Mimicking her indian accent! (reminds me of the "bud bud bud" taunts i saw indian boys getting at school!)
> Indian people eating with their hands, has she never had a fukin Macdonalds?!? (sorry i had to stick that in! fancy a Maccy D)
> 
> Its the comments aimed at indians in general that i find racist! 10000 complaints to ofcom and an Early Day motion in Parliament cant be wrong!
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately 10000 people CAN be wrong, and crying "Wolf" doesn't make the world a better place.
> 
> Shilpa is Indian. She's on the receiving end of some jokes, comments etc. Why do the 2 things *HAVE* to be connected?
Click to expand...

10,000 people, surely, are more likely to be right then wrong, i believe its upto 17,000 now :?


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## Private Prozac

Dr_Parmar said:


> *Ridiculous*! but i dont want to get involved in a long winded argument, i see this going on and on and on :roll:


That's abit of an early copout given that you started the thread in the first place! What did you expect, 'Yes' or 'No' replies?

I thought threads were supposed to promote active debate and not be cut short by the original poster after a few hours because he's been winded! :?


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## jampott

Dr_Parmar said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr_Parmar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with your above post, BUT what i find discriminatory is..
> 
> Jack calling her a Paki! surely you cant call that anything but racist!
> Mimicking her indian accent! (reminds me of the "bud bud bud" taunts i saw indian boys getting at school!)
> Indian people eating with their hands, has she never had a fukin Macdonalds?!? (sorry i had to stick that in! fancy a Maccy D)
> 
> Its the comments aimed at indians in general that i find racist! 10000 complaints to ofcom and an Early Day motion in Parliament cant be wrong!
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately 10000 people CAN be wrong, and crying "Wolf" doesn't make the world a better place.
> 
> Shilpa is Indian. She's on the receiving end of some jokes, comments etc. Why do the 2 things *HAVE* to be connected?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 10,000 people, surely, are more likely to be right then wrong, i believe its upto 17,000 now :?
Click to expand...

You asked for opinions, I've given mine. Eloquently. If you don't like it, tough shit.

As for what you said on the subject in "Off Topic", shame on you. It is attitudes like yours that make it so much harder for everyone else. Get on the phone to Ofcom, and I hope whinging about some PERSONAL remarks NOT directed at you makes you feel better about the world. Seriously, grow up.


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## Dr_Parmar

TT2BMW said:


> Dr_Parmar said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ridiculous*! but i dont want to get involved in a long winded argument, i see this going on and on and on :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> That's abit of an early copout given that you started the thread in the first place! What did you expect, 'Yes' or 'No' replies?
> 
> I thought threads were supposed to promote active debate and not be cut short by the original poster after a few hours because he's been winded! :?
Click to expand...

winded? since when did this become a punch up :roll:

as for active debate, what do you think has been going on, i just realised perhaps i had stupidly opened up a pandoras box which would result in abusive posts and name calling coupled with personal attacks :?


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## Dr_Parmar

jampott said:


> Dr_Parmar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr_Parmar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with your above post, BUT what i find discriminatory is..
> 
> Jack calling her a Paki! surely you cant call that anything but racist!
> Mimicking her indian accent! (reminds me of the "bud bud bud" taunts i saw indian boys getting at school!)
> Indian people eating with their hands, has she never had a fukin Macdonalds?!? (sorry i had to stick that in! fancy a Maccy D)
> 
> Its the comments aimed at indians in general that i find racist! 10000 complaints to ofcom and an Early Day motion in Parliament cant be wrong!
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately 10000 people CAN be wrong, and crying "Wolf" doesn't make the world a better place.
> 
> Shilpa is Indian. She's on the receiving end of some jokes, comments etc. Why do the 2 things *HAVE* to be connected?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 10,000 people, surely, are more likely to be right then wrong, i believe its upto 17,000 now :?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You asked for opinions, I've given mine. Eloquently. If you don't like it, tough shit.
> 
> As for what you said on the subject in "Off Topic", shame on you. It is attitudes like yours that make it so much harder for everyone else. Get on the phone to Ofcom, and I hope whinging about some PERSONAL remarks NOT directed at you makes you feel better about the world. Seriously, grow up.
Click to expand...

Shame on me? Grow up?

So i see that you are allowed to express your opinion and im not allowed to express mine? :roll:


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## jampott

Dr_Parmar said:


> TT2BMW said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr_Parmar said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ridiculous*! but i dont want to get involved in a long winded argument, i see this going on and on and on :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> That's abit of an early copout given that you started the thread in the first place! What did you expect, 'Yes' or 'No' replies?
> 
> I thought threads were supposed to promote active debate and not be cut short by the original poster after a few hours because he's been winded! :?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> winded? since when did this become a punch up :roll:
> 
> as for active debate, what do you think has been going on, i just realised perhaps i had stupidly opened up a pandoras box which would result in abusive posts and name calling coupled with personal attacks :?
Click to expand...

You're the one calling people "ignorant". Lisa's white, too. That makes you a racist, according to your definition.

I thought you were an OK sort of bloke, from what I've read on here in the past, but I had no clue obviously.

What has/hasn't been said on BB is open to debate an interpretation. Fair enough - but you've essentially called a fellow forum-member racist (with your "ignorant" comment) with absolutely no justification and that is inexcusable. Perhaps tomorrow, when you've calmed down, you'll re-read that particular thread and judge the post(s) in context.


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## Private Prozac

I think our resident dentist has a chip on his shoulder and likes to blow the 'Racist' trumpet a bit too much!

I wonder why the word 'Paki' is considered Racist now. Isn't it short for Pakistani? Are we racist for calling someone from Scotland a 'Scot'? I'm certainly not racist but I'd be brave enough to hold my hand up and say that I've used both words.

It depends in which context you use it IMO. I assume, having not seen it, that Jack was using it in a vicious way. If I have said in the past 'I'm popping down to the Paki shop' I'm in no way being racist. I know the owner well and chat with him everytime I go in. He's a bloody nice bloke.

Apparently, in Farnborough, someone has named their shop 'The Paki Shop' and yes they are Pakistani's. So, I guess they're proud of their heritage and also have a sense of humour!

I'm British but I wouldn't slam you with a racist badge if you called me a Brit. FFS, learn the difference will ya. jampott's right in that it's people with these attitudes that tend to stir up a tension that wasn't there in the first place.

Anyway, must let you go as the bandwagon's about to leave and you probably need to jump on it eh!


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## jampott

I'm fucking off to my white man's bed. Someone's obviously rattled the Dr's cage, but until he apologises to Lisa, he can go fuck himself with his drill for all I care.


----------



## Dr_Parmar

So now im a racist? oh god! Calling someone ignorant makes me a bigot?

Paki shop?  i cant believe what im reading!

you 2 have thrown this totally out of proportion!


----------



## jampott

Dr_Parmar said:


> So now im a racist? oh god! Calling someone ignorant makes me a bigot?
> 
> Paki shop?  i cant believe what im reading!
> 
> you 2 have thrown this totally out of proportion!


By your definition (ie anyone making a generalisation, or being "mean" to someone of a different colour) yes you are.

In general, I also agree that the words "paki" and "******" aren't necessarily racist. You seem to be unclear on the meaning. It is ENTIRELY contextual.

To quote from Wiki:



> In modern British usage "Paki" is typically used in a derogatory way as a label for all South Asians, including Indians and Bangladeshis. To a lesser extent, the term has been applied as a racial slur towards Arabs and other Middle Eastern-looking groups. In recent times there has been a trend by second- and third-generation British Pakistanis to reclaim the word, such as in the name of the clothing company PAK1 or the independent refugee television news agency paki.tv.
> 
> The racist connotations may be confined only to the UK. In Australia, the Pakistani cricket team are commonly referred to as the Pakis, just as the West Indians are known as the Windies.


So God help you if you go to Australia. You'll probably think they're all racists.

(note the word "typically" - for the terminally thick, that doesn't mean "always".)


----------



## Dr_Parmar

i thought you went to bed!

you enjoy having the last word eh?

perhaps it was me who rattled your cage :roll:


----------



## Private Prozac

That's what I was told anyway and had no reason to doubt as it didn't come from a racist! :?

Forgive me if I'm wrong but *you're* the one who's gone blasting in on 2 threads now accusing everyone in sight of being racist. It can work both ways you know!

I note that you didn't refer to my comment on 'Scot' or 'Brit'. Is that acceptable then or, on the grounds of shortening the word Pakistani being racist, these 2 words must also be racist? If so, 90% of this fucking country would be locked up for racist remarks wouldn't they? :?


----------



## jampott

Dr_Parmar said:


> i thought you went to bed!
> 
> you enjoy having the last word eh?
> 
> perhaps it was me who rattled your cage :roll:


I was going. I still am.

You didn't rattle my cage, but you HAVE insulted my other half. I think you owe her an apology.


----------



## jampott

TT2BMW said:


> That's what I was told anyway and had no reason to doubt as it didn't come from a racist! :?
> 
> Forgive me if I'm wrong but *you're* the one who's gone blasting in on 2 threads now accusing everyone in sight of being racist. It can work both ways you know!
> 
> I note that you didn't refer to my comment on 'Scot' or 'Brit'. Is that acceptable then or, on the grounds of shortening the word Pakistani being racist, these 2 words must also be racist? If so, 90% of this fucking country would be locked up for racist remarks wouldn't they? :?


In some ways, Paki is a bit different. Its largely symbolic, and "became" derogatory, as it took on offensive undertones. Used in a certain way (to taunt) it is, as I said, symbolic of 1960's racism.

But in today's world, everything changes again.

I still think its about context, and providing someone isn't deliberately trying to cause offence, it isn't racist.


----------



## Dr_Parmar

jampott said:


> I'm fucking off to my white man's bed. Someone's obviously rattled the Dr's cage, but until he apologises to Lisa, he can go fuck himself with his drill for all I care.


ok let me get this straight, i described a comment that someone made as offensive and ignorant.

BUT you can swear at me, and then ask me to apologise?

this thread has gone waaaay off the rails.... so now im going to bed.


----------



## jampott

Dr_Parmar said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm fucking off to my white man's bed. Someone's obviously rattled the Dr's cage, but until he apologises to Lisa, he can go fuck himself with his drill for all I care.
> 
> 
> 
> ok let me get this straight, i described a comment that someone made as offensive and ignorant.
> 
> BUT you can swear at me, and then ask me to apologise?
> 
> ok now im going to bed.
Click to expand...

I fail to see how the truth about a nation's toilet habits can be "offensive".

Are you telling us that toilets across Asia and the Indian subcontinent are all pocelain affairs with toilet paper? Really?

If you deliberately choose to take things out of context, and SERIOUSLY think that Lisa (or anyone else for that matter) thinks that ALL Indians shit in a hole, and wipe with their hand, I'm shocked to be honest.


----------



## Rogue

I think the racism card is too easily played these days.
I had a discussion with my girlfriend about this last night, and basically I said that if it was me in there instead of Shilpa, people would refer to me as "the Scottish guy".
I wouldn't take offence at this.
Shilpa is from India, and they are referring to her as "the Indian", so I fail to see how that is racist.
It's PC gone mad as usual in this country.

If 10,000 people have been offended by the show then here's an idea:

DON'T FUCKING WATCH IT!

No-one forces us to watch it, you do it through choice.

If she's being bullied then that's not on, but put yourself in that situation with a bunch of strangers, and I'd imagine even the slightest thing would start to piss you off after a while.

I remember going on holiday to Portugal a few years ago with the g/f's family, and living in a nice villa.
After about 4 days, we all started getting on each other's nerves, and I've vowed never again to go on holiday with them all.
Even small things like people wiping the unused butter from their knife back into the pack, leaving toast crumbs in the butter, wound me up.

Rogue


----------



## jbell

I think is is more bullying than racism, the racism card is too easy to use these days and has become somewhat of a joke as people use it at every opportunity, usually for financial gain it would seem, but that is a factor in this countrys decline into an American "I'll sue you" mentality.

The fact is Jade, Jo and Danielle are just being childish and acting like they are still in the playground. Jade is leading the other two by thinking she is special as she is back in the house, which is unfortunately where it all began. The problem is they are uneducated, thick, intolerant, scared and don't understand anything outside their comfort zone and don't wish to try and understand.

FFS Danielle couldn't remember if Chinese people ate with their hands or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If she had a brain she would be dangerous.

Jo is struggling as was seen by her panick attack but again she is outside her comfort zone. Imitating someone IS NOT racism, if it were every comedian would be a racist along with most of us.

I agree, there were some derogatory comments made that shouldn't have been but the people saying them probably don't know what they mean anyway.

Here are my views:

Jade - Thick as pig shit, but thinks she is special
Jo - Scared by the whole thing and is out of here depth
Danielle - See Jade but vainer
Jack - Hasn't got a clue
Jermaine - Dignified and positive
Shilpa - Coping well with an alien culture and doing here best
Dirk - Cool guy with so many issues
Cleo - Mad as a hatter
Ian (H) - Just confused with the infighting and worried about it


----------



## Private Prozac

Rogue said:


> If she's being bullied then that's not on, but put yourself in that situation with a bunch of strangers, and I'd imagine even the slightest thing would start to piss you off after a while.


Exactly. Would we have 10,000 people complaining if it was 10 Indian people in the house with 1 white. Would we then all think they were 'racist' when the bickering or falling out occurred.

It's the nature of the beast in there and, as Rogue said, the confined space and lack of personal space in particular gets people emotions up. Think of past shows. The aim is obviously to win and so they tend to go for the 'weakest' in order to see them off.

You're too quick to apply the 'racist' label to anything involving people of a different colour/creed/religion etc who are expressing their opinion on a person because of how they act and not because of their origin or skin colour.


----------



## Guest

dont you think this is all a 'stunt' by channel 4 - to get more viewers? get everyone talking about it? its on the front page of 80% of the papers this morning, so it obviously worked.

10,000 or now 17,000 people who (supposedly) complained about this really need to get a life....

but they're probably all ****'s anyway... :? they think that standard girly "bitching" towards one of their 'own' is being racist......what is this country coming to FFS?!?!!??!!??


----------



## head_ed

AndyRoo_TT said:


> dont you think this is all a 'stunt' by channel 4 - to get more viewers? get everyone talking about it? its on the front page of 80% of the papers this morning, so it obviously worked.


Nail. Head. Hit.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6269953.stm


----------



## spain

Turn the shit off and watch something else, that is if you can manage to find anything on TV that isnÂ´t related to reality TV, gardening, houses or some such similar bollocks.

After being forced to watch the other Big Brother with that screaming fucking banshee halfwit girl that now has her own bollocks program, I can safely say...never again - and so should the rest of you

I canÂ´t believe such a shit program even has a 4 page thread devoted to it on this forum, somewhere I come for a laugh and I had considered to be one of the best forums I have been on (not that I trawl the web looking for them) where supposedly intelligent people "hang out".

BB is for dim fuckwits with nothing else to do with their lives but watch someobody elses who are equally boring with no lives of their own and for z list celebs who hope to hit the limelight again by degrading themselves by carrying out stupidly boring tasks.

Come on people, I would even accept another thread on bad spelling at this moment in time [smiley=behead2.gif]


----------



## ronin

So what percentage of these 10,17 or 20 thousand whingers are from a race (can i say that without being branded a racist by some wonky) that originally is non native to England.
I would guess very high.
This post is no way meant to offend, but am sure something within it could be taken out of context, and probably will :roll:


----------



## jonah

ronin said:


> So what percentage of these 10,17 or 20 thousand whingers are from a race (can is say that without being branded a racist by some wonky) that originally is non native to England.
> I would guess very high.
> This post is no way meant to offend, but am sure something within it could be taken out of context.


You might be suprised at the amount of none ethnic people who take offence to racists and bullying comments who ever they are directed at :?


----------



## Guest

ronin said:


> So what percentage of these 10,17 or 20 thousand whingers are from a race (can is say that without being branded a racist by some wonky) that originally is non native to England.
> I would guess very high.


and that they do not understand that women 'bitch' about other women - its a fact of life.

I bet this is the first time the "complainers" have seen Big Bro. its what happens on all of them!


----------



## Guest

ronin said:


> This post is no way meant to offend, but am sure something within it could be taken out of context, and probably will :roll:


 :lol: :lol:


----------



## Captain Beeflat

sPAIN. Guided only by your foul language and your pre prep school, asinine, non constructive comments, you certainly give the impression of being high on the target market for the producers of such programmes.


----------



## jampott

Where were the cries of "Racism" when Shilpa was mocking Jade's accent? Specifically, they were talking about a Whale. Jade pronounced it in her nasty common twang and Shilpa took the piss.

Where were the cries of "Racism" when both Jermaine and Shilpa have talked about the other housemates as being "White Trash" and "beneath them".

I didn't hear a fucking thing. Not a dicky bird.

This country is in a bad way if you can't dislike someone from a foreign country without being branded a racist.

I can't believe how out of proportion this whole (non)issue has become.

If Shilpa (or Jermaine) are being deliberately bullied solely on the basis of their colour, I agree - this is racism. But that isn't what I'm seeing on BB. I just see a bunch of people thrown together, a good deal of ignorance, a lot of arrogance and ego, and a surefire ratings winner for Ch4.


----------



## Rogue

ronin said:


> So what percentage of these 10,17 or 20 thousand whingers are from a race (can i say that without being branded a racist by some wonky) that originally is non native to England.
> I would guess very high.
> This post is no way meant to offend, but am sure something within it could be taken out of context, and probably will :roll:


I'd like to know the same about the originators of the two death threats made against two of the contestants by "members of the public".

Rogue


----------



## Private Prozac

jampott said:


> Where were the cries of "Racism" when both Jermaine and Shilpa have talked about the other housemates as being "White Trash" and "beneath them".
> 
> I didn't hear a fucking thing. Not a dicky bird.


I didn't know that but would be very interested to hear our Dr Parmar's views on that one! :?

Perhaps this isn't considered racist because it is directed at 'white' people. Perhaps racism can only be associated with people of a colour other than white!

Perhaps Keith Vaz and all the journo's (oops, is that racist because I've abbreviated the word Journalist!), should be made aware of this and see where the racism issue lies now.


----------



## jampott

Apparently there is now some effigy burning going on...  :roll:


----------



## Private Prozac

I wouldn't go that far. Doc Parmar has a right to post his thoughts! :wink:


----------



## spain

Watch out guy s, we are all no longer allowed to swear in the flame room as per Captain tossers - beeflats instructions - and on top of that not only does he belittle you time and time again, he then goes on to say he that he doesnÂ´t (if you need evidence I will find the thread).

How my comments are not constructive - i.e. turn the crap off if you donÂ´t like it instead of complaining about how shit it is - I donÂ´t quite understand - would you like to enlighten me.

Plus if I am high on the target, they must have all been blind as they missed me completely.

Oh yeah, itÂ´s Spain not sPAIN


----------



## garyc

jampott said:


> I haven't seen ANY evidence of racism. Its PC gone mad again, if you ask me.
> 
> Shilpa is behaving weird, and can't cook chicken, and she talks funny.
> 
> If she was white, then Jo, Jade etc would make exactly the same comments. That, to me, defines whether or not its "racist".


OK, it's just scumism. Which is fine.


----------



## jbell

Dr_Parmar said:


> I think its clearly bullying but with borderline racism, shilpa is no more irritating then anyone else in that place. Its a girl being singled out for being different, be it race, colour or creed.
> 
> Evidence of racism...
> 
> Mimicking her indian accent
> Abusing her for eating with her hands, "is that why indians are all so thin?"
> "Dont they live in huts in india!"
> "That indian!" in a derogatory manner
> Jack calling her a "Paki"
> 
> Im sorry Exactly what would you call racism? I shudder to think.


Imitating some one is not Racism, the way it is done can be construed as racism but I don't believe Jo meant it that way, she was taking the piss.

Racism is Jermains' statement of "They are just White Trash" to Shilpa about Jo, Jade and Danielle. :evil: but no-one has said a word about that have they :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: .

Jo, Jade and Danielle are thick and don't know any better, they are also too afraid to ask incase they look stupid (which they do a very good job of on their own - Danielle "I thought Winston Churchill was the first Black President of America") need I say more.

"That Indian", Shilpa is Indian it was just the tone of voice used to say it, Jackiey is stupid and intolerant and probably fancied Shilpa.

Scottish - Jock
Welsh - Taffy
French - Frog
Irish - Paddy
American - Yank

These are nick names and are in no way meant to be hurtful it's just banter, the world would be a boring place without it.

Jack calling Shilpa a Paki is entirely incorrect as she is clearly not Pakistani but again he is thick and has no idea of what goes on in the world let alone where India and Pakistan are.

Shilpa is being singled out because she comes from a different culture and clearly doesn't understand ours and vice versa. Jade is the ring leader and her true personality is coming out now.

Where do all these protesters come from? Do they not work? or have they told their boss they want the afternoon off to burn effergies, if one of my employees asked me that I know what the answer would be.

P.S Shilpa is gorgeous and has a great rack, given half a chance I would :wink:


----------



## Guest

jbell said:


> P.S Shilpa is gorgeous and has a great rack, given half a chance I would :wink:


...call her a Paki? Chain her to the kitchen? Demand her to make chicken soup?..... :lol: :lol:

:wink:


----------



## jbell

AndyRoo_TT said:


> jbell said:
> 
> 
> 
> P.S Shilpa is gorgeous and has a great rack, given half a chance I would :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> ...call her a Paki? Chain her to the kitchen? Demand her to make chicken soup?..... :lol: :lol:
> 
> :wink:
Click to expand...

Get her to call me daddy :wink: :twisted: :twisted: :wink:


----------



## zedman

thought i'd post as no actual 'paki's' have yet! basically it's very clear to me that the comments being made towards Shilpa were bordering on, or were actually racist but i dont think they were meant in that way, seems to me it's just a load of thick people who dont understand that when you're being filmed 24/7 you might want to think before you speak.. it's ok saying that it doesnt really matter but if like me you have been taunted because of your colour (as well as being chased by a load of drunks once!!), shouted at by people driving past, called a Paki bastard at the end of a load of other swearing by people who you thought weren't racist, spat on etc then it tends to be a bit more significant when you watch this stuff on TV, maybe the Dr takes it more personally - but surely thats his right??
anyway i'm sure Shilpa can handle it, makes you wonder whether channel 4 does it just for the headlines... 
p.s. i've painted quite a pictue of racism in the above paragraph, not as bad as it sounds - was all a long long time ago and certainly not happened to me for ages
respect
Z


----------



## renton72

spain said:


> Oh yeah, itÂ´s Spain not sPAIN


no its not its *s*pain! :wink:


----------



## Captain Beeflat

zedman. Take heart that it only a minority of mental spastics and yobs who abuse you. The rest of us are embarrassed by their behaviour, as it reflects upon all of us. The colour of your skin is of no importance whatsoever; it is behaviour that matters.
We should be free to condemn bad behaviour whatever the skin colour as I am sure you will agree.
Frequently I am ashamed to be English.


----------



## Gizmo750

Captain Beeflat said:


> zedman. Take heart that it only a minority of mental spastics and yobs who abuse you.


Sorry but this is *VERY* offensive - please look up the definition of "spastic" and then try using an alternative! :x


----------



## zedman

Captain Beeflat said:


> zedman. Take heart that it only a minority of mental spastics and yobs who abuse you. The rest of us are embarrassed by their behaviour, as it reflects upon all of us. The colour of your skin is of no importance whatsoever; it is behaviour that matters.
> We should be free to condemn bad behaviour whatever the skin colour as I am sure you will agree.
> Frequently I am ashamed to be English.


hey i dont worry about it, plenty of 'brothers' out there making us look bad too...


----------



## Toshiba

zedman said:


> basically it's very clear to me that the comments being made towards Shilpa were bordering on, or were actually racist but i dont think they were meant in that way, seems to me it's just a load of thick people who dont understand that when you're being filmed 24/7 you might want to think before you speak.. it's ok saying that it doesnt really matter but if like me you have been taunted because of your colour (as well as being chased by a load of drunks once!!), shouted at by people driving past, called a Paki bastard at the end of a load of other swearing by people who you thought weren't racist,
> Z


Is this any different to someone whos fat?
some one whos got a big nose?
some one whos got big ears?
some one who has no hair? or ginger?
some one ....

All appears to be utter crap to me. Only seen whats been on the news but if some one was picking food off my plate, or using their fingers in the way described, i'd not be happy. I don't give a damn who she or bollywood THINKS she is.

Its clearly a cultural thing, not racism - the white trash comments are however clearly racist and im totally appalled this has not been mentioned on the new. Typical PC bollox as per usual. Should they have more tolerance? maybe, should she respect the ways of the others? maybe.

Seems like a good publicity stunt to me.


----------



## Teehee

Toshiba said:


> zedman said:
> 
> 
> 
> basically it's very clear to me that the comments being made towards Shilpa were bordering on, or were actually racist but i dont think they were meant in that way, seems to me it's just a load of thick people who dont understand that when you're being filmed 24/7 you might want to think before you speak.. it's ok saying that it doesnt really matter but if like me you have been taunted because of your colour (as well as being chased by a load of drunks once!!), shouted at by people driving past, called a Paki bastard at the end of a load of other swearing by people who you thought weren't racist,
> Z
> 
> 
> 
> some one whos got a big nose?
> some one ....
Click to expand...

Sorry but this made me think of the start of Monty Python Life of Brian


----------



## digimeisTTer

*YAWN*

It's a crappy reality TV show with a bunch of fading nonenteties- I haven't watched it but it's made the headlines, which i find incredulous!

great for the producers i suppose :roll:


----------



## Toshiba

That was my point. i bet they rang in 1990 of the 2000 complaints to get it on the news in the first place. [smiley=end.gif]


----------



## zedman

Toshiba said:


> Is this any different to someone whos fat?
> some one whos got a big nose?
> some one whos got big ears?
> some one who has no hair? or ginger?
> some one ....
> 
> All appears to be utter crap to me. Only seen whats been on the news but if some one was picking food off my plate, or using their fingers in the way described, i'd not be happy. I don't give a damn who she or bollywood THINKS she is.
> 
> Its clearly a cultural thing, not racism - the white trash comments are however clearly racist and im totally appalled this has not been mentioned on the new. Typical PC bollox as per usual. Should they have more tolerance? maybe, should she respect the ways of the others? maybe.
> 
> Seems like a good publicity stunt to me.


i'm feeling what you're saying Mr Toshiba, my point was not that racial slurs should be given special treatment, just that some comments may be taken more personally by some people because it's more relevant to them. 
is that so bad?


----------



## Toshiba

Not at all and that's the point . I'd not be happy if someones was to call me a fat northern ginner wanker. :wink: (I'm not ginger or fat, but i still wouldn't be happy).

People take offence from the wrong words in the insults IMO, surly its the 'wanker' comment that's the issue, not the colour (be it of my hair or skin, as thats simply a given).

Still convinced its a publicity stunt to boost ratings.
Im hoping it actually back fires and they pull the show from the Air and save us all.


----------



## Dotti

Jesus wept! Jade is one nurotic bitch! [smiley=freak.gif]


----------



## redTT

Well....

I challenge any of you to go into East London, Leicester, Bradford, Bolton or any other area with a high Indian and/or Pakistani community, walk into the local shop, community centre, mosque etc and call the people there Paki's in whatever context you like and see what happens......Then tell me if it's racist. It's how they perceive it that counts.

By the way, Danielle saying Shilpa should 'go back home' (another past favourite racist taunt) because she can't speak english properly...that is racist beyond doubt in my mind.

Frankly, the level of swearing in the programme is also appalling and should be stopped, regardless of when it is shown. How can we have stooped so low as a nation to find this rubbish entertaining ??


----------



## jonah

Toshiba said:


> zedman said:
> 
> 
> 
> basically it's very clear to me that the comments being made towards Shilpa were bordering on, or were actually racist but i dont think they were meant in that way, seems to me it's just a load of thick people who dont understand that when you're being filmed 24/7 you might want to think before you speak.. it's ok saying that it doesnt really matter but if like me you have been taunted because of your colour (as well as being chased by a load of drunks once!!), shouted at by people driving past, called a Paki bastard at the end of a load of other swearing by people who you thought weren't racist,
> Z
> 
> 
> 
> Is this any different to someone whos fat?
> some one whos got a big nose?
> some one whos got big ears?
> some one who has no hair? or ginger?
> some one ....
> 
> All appears to be utter crap to me. Only seen whats been on the news but if some one was picking food off my plate, or using their fingers in the way described, i'd not be happy. I don't give a damn who she or bollywood THINKS she is.
> 
> Its clearly a cultural thing, not racism - the white trash comments are however clearly racist and im totally appalled this has not been mentioned on the new. Typical PC bollox as per usual. Should they have more tolerance? maybe, should she respect the ways of the others? maybe.
> 
> Seems like a good publicity stunt to me.
Click to expand...

I hope you never go to a decent restaurant cause your food would of been handled by atleats 3 people before it reaches you :?


----------



## Private Prozac

redTT said:


> I challenge any of you to go into East London, Leicester, Bradford, Bolton or any other area with a high Indian and/or Pakistani community, walk into the local shop, community centre, mosque etc and call the people there Paki's in whatever context you like and see what happens......Then tell me if it's racist. It's how they perceive it that counts.


After reading this I wondered about the word 'Paki' and how the Pakistani community would react.

So, I went to Google and typed in 'Paki'. Ignoring the links to the Paki joke sites, I found some very interesting sites:

http://www.paki.com/

http://www.suspectpaki.com/

http://www.pakirecipes.com/

http://www.mypaki.com/Main/

All of these run by Pakistani's and all obviously not worried or threatened by the word. So, if they are comfortable naming websites with the word why should non Pakistani's feel threatened or labelled as 'racist' for using it?

I'm not saying that I'd go running into an unknown environment, where nobody knew me, screaming the word and expecting to come out in one piece. But a mere mention of the word shouldn't instantly label somebody a racist!

Why is it that you very rarely, if ever, hear of racism towards white English people. Is it because it doesn't exist or because we are more tolerant and would refer to it as an insult rather than racism? If somebody said to me 'Fuck off milky' or 'Up yours Brit', my first thought would be that I'd been insulted. Maybe we should also become the eggshells that we are so very often too scared to walk on!


----------



## Toshiba

is she not from india? :lol:


----------



## Dotti

I'm from Essex  .


----------



## Private Prozac

Exactly. So you have 24,000 thickshits complaining about nothing then because, on a technicality, it wasn't a racist comment!


----------



## jampott

TT2BMW said:


> redTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> I challenge any of you to go into East London, Leicester, Bradford, Bolton or any other area with a high Indian and/or Pakistani community, walk into the local shop, community centre, mosque etc and call the people there Paki's in whatever context you like and see what happens......Then tell me if it's racist. It's how they perceive it that counts.
> 
> 
> 
> After reading this I wondered about the word 'Paki' and how the Pakistani community would react.
> 
> So, I went to Google and typed in 'Paki'. Ignoring the links to the Paki joke sites, I found some very interesting sites:
> 
> http://www.paki.com/
> 
> http://www.suspectpaki.com/
> 
> http://www.pakirecipes.com/
> 
> http://www.mypaki.com/Main/
> 
> All of these run by Pakistani's and all obviously not worried or threatened by the word. So, if they are comfortable naming websites with the word why should non Pakistani's feel threatened or labelled as 'racist' for using it?
> 
> I'm not saying that I'd go running into an unknown environment, where nobody knew me, screaming the word and expecting to come out in one piece. But a mere mention of the word shouldn't instantly label somebody a racist!
> 
> Why is it that you very rarely, if ever, hear of racism towards white English people. Is it because it doesn't exist or because we are more tolerant and would refer to it as an insult rather than racism? If somebody said to me 'Fuck off milky' or 'Up yours Brit', my first thought would be that I'd been insulted. Maybe we should also become the eggshells that we are so very often too scared to walk on!
Click to expand...

I think (British) ex-pats abroad sometimes get a bit of rough treatment from the locals, but you'd expect it wouldn't you? You'd weigh up the pros and cons of moving there, including how you would be accepted (or not) by the locals, and if you still decided you wanted to go, it wouldn't stop you.

In anycase, you DO hear of racism towards white English people, even here in Britain. Too many government bodies / police forces operated a VERY tough line anti-discrimination policy which ended up being weighted too far the wrong way. In some instances it wasn't possible to get a job offer unless you filled the criteria of whatever "minority" they needed to raise the numbers of, be it disability, ethnic background, religion or sexual preference.

Far too much is made of "racism" if you ask me. Indian people are different from me. African people are different from South Americans. So fucking what? I'm sick and tired of people trying to preach to the world that we're all the same, when patently we aren't. A mixture of culture, religion, evolution and any number of other factors have managed to create a huge number of diverse groups of humans. Why shouldn't we talk about what is different? If I can take the piss out of a Scouse accent, why can't I immitate a French one, an Indian one etc?

Jade managed a full blown argument today with Shilpa, and basically gave both barrels. Was it racist? I didn't hear anything to suggest that it was. Danielle saying that she wished Shilpa would fuck off home... that's a bit ambiguous I guess - but even so, its hardly racist to want someone out of the BB house.


----------



## Dotti

Jade was not racist tonight, but her language was disgraceful towards Shilpa and the language she was referring to Shilpa as, was almost a form of bullying I guess! :? Over something so petty - a chicken stock cube! :roll: An argument that got seriously out of control over something so daft!

That is not racist what Jade was calling Shilpa, but completely un-acceptable and Jade was certainly not going to let it lie for sure!

I feel embaressed by Jade and the sort of language that woman came out with frankly! :x

Certainly not entertaining in a humoured way, but aggressive reality from a nurotic, uptight, arrogant pig!


----------



## redTT

Its all about individual interpretation and perception.

I and I'm sure many others felt they were being racist (accept that the level of intent is questionable) and/or bullying. Many others didnt. I also suspect that some will have had an issue with the incredible bad language

Either way, the fact is that it has still received more complaints than anything else I can remember. Yes, some may have jumped on the bandwagon, but also many may have not complained. Overall though, this must be causing offence to a good section of the viewing population.


----------



## Captain Beeflat

Surely we are all different from each other with individual nuances; so why should some be so touchy? If someone is fat, they prefer to be called large. Tough; the word is fat, Yorkshire is large. Fat is a word that we all understand and recognise; it is a part of the language.
I can quite understand someone objecting to Fatster, Lard Arse or Bloater, but fat? Sorry, but that's the word to describe the condition.


----------



## genocidalduck

Beings we are back to Racism again......And to pick up with which Tim put on....But there is that guy who has just been given a seat in a Formula one team...Don't remember his name because i only heard him mentioned by political correct news agencies as the "First black person to get a seat in a Formula one team. Oh and he's British". Personally i'd prefer just to know his name as the description above is abit off a mouthful.

My point is why the fuck does it matter what colour, sex or size he is. I don't fecking get it. Why not just "Formula one teams gives seat to new British prospect". As this would give more relevence to those that one follow Formula one and are patriotic enough to want to know he is a British sportsman.

Political Correctness breeds racial hatred. If they would just keep their mouths shut and talk about each person as just that a 'person' and not what colour or race they are. We wouldnt be having these fecking problems.


----------



## Captain Beeflat

genocidalduck. 
I could not agree more; also, why do the "holier than thou" brigade claim the high ground in calling it politically CORRECT? Surely, it is politically DEBATABLE at best.
By the way, that formula one chap is called Lewis Hamilton; driving for McLaren this year.


----------



## Teehee

Just to lob an extra grenade ito the mix...

ACPO define that 'a racist act is any act that anyone perceives to be racist'.

Accepting that the Police are fundamental to society (by keeping law and order) this seems like the best line of measure.

Discuss :wink:


----------



## Rogue

There's uproar now about the girls mocking Shilpa's accent and saying it's hard to understand her, and yet nothing's been said of Shilpa telling Jade she needs elocution lessons.

I really wish this whole PC thing would just fuck right off.

If someone treats me with respect I'll respect them back, regardless of their colour.
However, if they disrespect me am I not allowed to point this out to them incase I'm accused of being racist?

It's all fucking wrong.

Rogue


----------



## Rogue

Oh, and also apparently they're burning effigies of Big Brother producers on the streets of India now.
Can you imagine the uproar if we burned effigies of Indian people in the streets of London?

Rogue


----------



## saint

Glad to see you got into work!!


----------



## Guest

i blame the media 100%. BB confirms none of the comments were racist, so why all the media coverage? All news coverage about this (and there has been a lot of it) all asks the question "what has been said that is racist?". Not one story Ive heard from any news report can confirm what has been said, be it Radio 4, BBC1/News24, SkyNews, GMTV ( :roll: ).....

Its the minority groups feeling singled out on the only gameshow to show an Indian, and just because that Indian had a "bitch fight" (thats all it is at the end of the day!), they feel the need to complain that she is being singled out because of her 'race'?

Does anybody remember the Emma and Victor 'bitch fight' where secruity guards had to be called into the house? Victor was black, Emma was white. That incident had big media coverage, but not one said it was racist. Thats how it should be! Is this how far we have moved on in the past couple of years?!?!?!!!


----------



## head_ed

I didn't know Jade's father was a judge :?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/17/nbb117.xml


----------



## Private Prozac

Rogue said:


> Can you imagine the uproar if we burned effigies of Indian people in the streets of London?
> 
> Rogue


Fucking spot on mate. That's just what I was thinking last night when I was watching them on the news.

Again it boils down to culture. They are allowed to burn effigies and not be accused of being racist and yet we'd be banged up if we burned an effigie of an Indian!

Fucking fucked up world. :?


----------



## Private Prozac

head_ed said:


> I didn't know Jade's father was a judge :?
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/17/nbb117.xml


LMFAO: "A man who racially abused a police surgeon was told by a judge yesterday: "Next time call him a fat bastard and don't say anything about his colour."

:lol:


----------



## phodge

Toshiba said:


> some one who has no hair? or ginger?


Oi!! Leave us gingers out of this!! :twisted:


----------



## Rogue

saint said:


> Glad to see you got into work!!


*I'm* not 

Sat in stationary traffic down Springkerse for more than 30 minutes!
It's fun watching the non-4 wheel drive cars struggle in the car park at VF though 

Saw you the other night, driving down Linden Avenue. I was standing waiting on the g/f picking me up.

Rogue


----------



## Rogue

At last, some sense:

Taken from the BBC's News site:



> Film-maker Prahlad Kakkar, who has worked with top Bollywood stars and various other celebrities, said that people in the Big Brother show got "down and dirty and used everything at their disposal to gain an advantage over others".
> 
> He said that she was paid "obscene amounts of money" to participate in the show and must have known what she was getting into when she agreed to appear.
> 
> "I think we are over-reacting to this whole racism issue. It is everywhere and this is a competitive show and has a format where everyone says anything about everyone else," Mr Kakkar said.
> 
> Film critic and columnist, Mayank Shekhar said that the incident showed the "underbelly of racism" that still exists in Europe and North America.
> 
> "I am not surprised at this. Big Brother is a show where people are stuck in a room and after a point, their true character is bound to come through," he said.
> 
> Mr Shekhar said the publicity would certainly not give a fillip to her career that is not doing too well at the moment.
> 
> "She did not have much work here and was therefore able to commit herself to this show for three months. It has made her a talking point for the time being, but that's about it," he said.


Rogue


----------



## jampott

genocidalduck said:


> Beings we are back to Racism again......And to pick up with which Tim put on....But there is that guy who has just been given a seat in a Formula one team...Don't remember his name because i only heard him mentioned by political correct news agencies as the "First black person to get a seat in a Formula one team. Oh and he's British". Personally i'd prefer just to know his name as the description above is abit off a mouthful.
> 
> My point is why the fuck does it matter what colour, sex or size he is. I don't fecking get it. Why not just "Formula one teams gives seat to new British prospect". As this would give more relevence to those that one follow Formula one and are patriotic enough to want to know he is a British sportsman.
> 
> Political Correctness breeds racial hatred. If they would just keep their mouths shut and talk about each person as just that a 'person' and not what colour or race they are. We wouldnt be having these fecking problems.


It doesn't "matter" what colour he is, but it *is* interesting nonetheless, if only to the black community to know that another barrier has been broken down.

Where there are areas / sports / jobs / clubs etc which are still dominated by your average white upper/middle class stereotype, it is newsworthy when things begin to change.

If black drivers were commonplace in F1, his colour wouldn't be mentioned. Of course not - but far from the mention being negative, in this case I think it is positive.

Y'know, it'd be just as interesting to hear about a world-class white 100m sprinter or steeplechase runner.

Or female golfer, competing against the men... that kind of thing is interesting and newsworthy because it is unusual. Actually she's no better than "average" and barely makes the cut (if at all) in a decent field, but the fact that she's competing AT ALL is what is interesting.


----------



## TTwiggy

I think this thread demonstrates that some of us are at least willing to enter into a discourse on the subject. It's a shame that the good Doc who started the thread clearly expected everyone to agree with him, and when they didn't, he hid behind a 'brick wall' and accused all detractors of being rascists.

I'm particularly dissapointed in him, as a few months ago, the usual suspects on here were holding an online 'lynch mob' party concerning the issue of immigrants (both legal and illegal). At the time it seemed that I was holding a one-man battle against them, and what I considered to be their racist views. Strangley Dr Parmar was very quiet on that particular thread...

Now maybe he simply missed it, or perhaps he only sees race issues when he perceives a slur on the ethnic background that he comes from. If racism is to be tackled, it has to be acknowledged that ALL RACES can beocme victims of it, and ALL RACES should endeavour to stamp it out.

Back on topic, for what my opinion is worth, I don't think there's been racism in the BB house. Stupidity- yes, naievety - definately, prejudice - maybe. At least though it's shown that Jade Goody does not deserve t obe held up as an example to young women, but is in fact just a nasty piece of work.


----------



## jbell

TTwiggy said:


> Now maybe he simply missed it, or perhaps he only sees race issues when he perceives a slur on the ethnic background that he comes from. If racism is to be tackled, it has to be acknowledged that ALL RACES can become victims of it, and ALL RACES should endeavour to stamp it out.


I agree, people have not said a word about Jermains' statement of "White Trash" which was interestingly mentioned on a text to GMTV this morning and still it wasn't mentioned, so obvoiusly we all have to abide by different rules, which is Fucking Bullshit.

If people want to complain about things then maybe they should look in the mirror first and assess their own values and beliefs.

When Shilpa said "Is this what the UK is" I was embarassed, she has been given a glimpse of a small minority of British people who quite frankly shouldn't be on TV and give a bad impression of us all.

Slightly off topic but I personally have no problem with anyone provided they are a productive and interactive member of society i.e if you want to live here then live by our rules and respect our culture and we will do the same. Unfortunately the image BB is giving is of an ignorant and repulsive Britain and we appear to all be tarred with the same brush.

It's too easy to use the race card these days and it would seem that the majority of people use it for anything.

I have two friends called Ray one is white and one is black so we call them Black Ray and White Ray, neither of them have a problem with this and the Black one suggested it, he also thinks the race issue on BB is, and I quote him "A big load of shite brought on by the fucking ridiculous way people percieve everything, why don't they get a life"


----------



## jampott

If Shilpa wishes to form a generalised and stereotyped opinion of what the UK is, based solely on Jade, she's bordering on "racist" herself...


----------



## Steve_Mc

TTwiggy said:


> At least though it's shown that Jade Goody does not deserve t obe held up as an example to young women, but is in fact just a nasty piece of work.


Which is actually the best thing to come out of this. Hopefully our society can now stop worshipping mediocrity, or in Jade Goody's case, downright ignorance. Shilpa by rising above the arguments and conducting herself with decorum despite extreme provocation, has become the bookmakers' favourite to win CBB. I really hope she does, not just as an example to the "youth of today", but also as two fingers to the trend-setters and cool hunters who seem to feel overexposure of the vacuous Jade, WAGs etc. is some sort of entertainment, nay culture.


----------



## Rogue

Let's not forget that Shilpa is only here because she got paid a lot of money to appear on the show, and is after publicity (possibly trying to make a name for herself in the UK?).

The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that she could even be masterminding all this/provoking arguments to raise her profile.
A couple of weeks ago, not many people in the UK (or outside of India) had heard of her, now we all know her name and we're talking about her every day.

At the end of the day, if she's unhappy in that house, all she has to do is request to leave.
She's not a fucking prisoner.
Or maybe she wouldn't get her full pay if she left early.....

Rogue


----------



## Dr_Parmar

TTwiggy said:


> I think this thread demonstrates that some of us are at least willing to enter into a discourse on the subject. It's a shame that the good Doc who started the thread clearly expected everyone to agree with him, and when they didn't, he hid behind a 'brick wall' and accused all detractors of being rascists.
> 
> I'm particularly dissapointed in him, as a few months ago, the usual suspects on here were holding an online 'lynch mob' party concerning the issue of immigrants (both legal and illegal). At the time it seemed that I was holding a one-man battle against them, and what I considered to be their racist views. Strangley Dr Parmar was very quiet on that particular thread...
> 
> Now maybe he simply missed it, or perhaps he only sees race issues when he perceives a slur on the ethnic background that he comes from. If racism is to be tackled, it has to be acknowledged that ALL RACES can beocme victims of it, and ALL RACES should endeavour to stamp it out.
> 
> Back on topic, for what my opinion is worth, I don't think there's been racism in the BB house. Stupidity- yes, naievety - definately, prejudice - maybe. At least though it's shown that Jade Goody does not deserve t obe held up as an example to young women, but is in fact just a nasty piece of work.


I havent been hiding behind a brick wall, i had an important presentation today, which is now over, and went rather well  and I dont recall the immigrant thread you are referring too.

I didnt expect people to jump up and say "oh yes doc you are right, this is racism! lets all complain" i expected to get an interesting debate, now some comments seem constructive and sensible but others i find inflammatory. Its me who is now disappointed in alot of people in this forum, i really didnt see it coming.

I also dont appreciate being sworn at.

Now id like to make a few points, a technicality maybe but i believe the effigy was made out of straw and covered in cloth which was neither white or brown, i dont think they were burning a "white" man but the idea of big brother which has allowed the bullying and some believe (and i agree) racist comments made in the program. Can i also point out that it WASNT ME PERSONALLY who burnt the thing, and i am amazed im having to defend this. It was also a grouop of about 20 people in a small village in india which has a population of over 1 billion!

Last night was especially nasty, perhaps it is just a bitch fight, and perhaps its difficult to identify what is racist and what isnt. But referring to the Victor and ??? fight in a previous episode, no jokes/ridicule was aimed at his background, his accent, etc. Shilpa was yesterday told to "go back home" and to "go live in the slums?" What i find most distressing is that some people on this forum dont find the terms ****** and paki as racist! Paki was used in the 70s and the 80s in racist slurs against indian/pakistan immigrants to this country. It is a reconised derogatory comment, i admit that many ethnic minorities have tried to make light of it by using it in shop names and in websites but that does not detract from its origins.

Now does that mean that black people who refer to each other as ****** in rap songs etc would be happy for you to pop along and call them the same? Its something ive often wondered, and its a big grey area! Is calling someone black wrong, should they be called afro-carribbean or should they just be called by their name and it left there.

This program has thrown up plenty of inflammatory views, there are those who hate the recent Political correctness movement who see the idea of this being anything more then racists as ridiculous! then there are those who find the events in the house to be bullying but with racial undertones. If you go through and read my previous posts you will see that i am one of these. May i also add that is people from all religions and beliefs that have signed an online petition which is doing the rounds.

Now im sure the usual suspects will ridicule this long post, and provide overtly-hostile replies...to which i eagerly await.

what i would like to hear is what people would actually percieve as a racist comment, this is the bit that gets me, im having trouble of thinking of much else that could be said to re-enforce the racial undertones that we are seeing.

oh and jampo, dental drills cost Â£800+ i wont be putting them up by backside for you or anyone else for that matter, they'l be difficult to sterliise after.


----------



## Private Prozac

And again we get bombarded in the news, for the 2nd day running, about this shit.

News programmes making it their top story for fuck sakes. Radio programmes devoting 15+ minutes on phone calls and e-mails on it and *still* we don't hear about the 'white trash' comment!

There's going to be physical hurt over this. Mark my words. Already 2 death threats have been made against somebody in the house, (Jade?), which Police are investigating. Either she, her family or riots will occur over this in the form of ethinic Vs white or vice versa and my personal blame will be apportioned to the media.


----------



## Rogue

Dr_Parmar said:


> Now id like to make a few points, a technicality maybe but i believe the effigy was made out of straw and covered in cloth which was neither white or brown, i dont think they were burning a "white" man but the idea of big brother which has allowed the bullying and some believe (and i agree) racist comments made in the program. Can i also point out that it WASNT ME PERSONALLY who burnt the thing, and i am amazed im having to defend this. It was also a grouop of about 20 people in a small village in india which has a population of over 1 billion!


Couldn't they have just burned a big logo of an eye?  
Flippancy aside, it doesn't matter that it was only 20 people in a small village, from a population of 1 billion.
There's less than 20 people stuck in that Big Brother house, but each story is still making the news for all the wrong reasons.

I think TT2BMW has a point, in that this seems purely to be hype generated by the media, in order to generate stories/income/interest for them.
Self-gratification, if you will.

Maybe we should all just boycott the media and stop buying papers?

Rogue


----------



## TTwiggy

Sorry Doc - you quote me and then refer to being sworn at - I'm not aware that I did so?...


----------



## TTwiggy

From C4...

18 January 2007

For immediate issue

At a press conference today at the Oxford Media Convention 2007 Andy Duncan, Channel 4's Chief Executive, made the following statement:

"In the seven years it has been on air Big Brother has seldom been far from the headlines.

The reason it commands so much attention, intentionally or unintentionally, is that it goes to the heart of who we are as individuals and as a society.

The latest series of Celebrity Big Brother has strayed into particularly controversial territory - the issue of racism and whether or not it remains ingrained in British attitudes despite all the progress we have apparently made towards becoming a truly multi-cultural society.

The level of complaint and comment shows the programme has touched a real nerve.

The debate has been heated, the viewing has at times been uncomfortable but, in my view, it is unquestionably a good thing that the programme has raised these issues and provoked such a debate. These attitudes, however distasteful, do persist - we need to confront that truth.

What constitutes racism is a complex question. We have been monitoring extremely carefully events in the house and have reached the view that we cannot with certainty say that the comments directed at Shilpa have been racially motivated or whether they stem from broader cultural and social differences.

We have already intervened with Danielle and, as viewers will see tonight, again with Jade where we felt their comments might be construed to have racist overtones. Producers also spoke to Shilpa today who said she did not feel that behaviour towards her was racist.

We will not hesitate to intervene again if apparently racist behaviour occurs.

Big Brother's unique strength is that it is ultimately the public who will decide whether or not the behaviour of certain contestants has been unacceptable.

Tomorrow night Jade and Shilpa will face the public vote. The British public has the opportunity to cut through the claim and counter-claim and pass its judgement on the events of the last week.

In the last 25 years Channel 4 has undoubtedly played a major role as a broadcaster to inform and educate viewers about issues of race. This is a role that I intend Channel 4 to continue playing".


----------



## Private Prozac

CPW = Fucking Chicken Shit!

Big Brother sponsor suspends deal

Carphone Warehouse has suspended sponsorship of Celebrity Big Brother following allegations of racism toward actress Shilpa Shetty on the C4 show. 
The company said its sponsorship would be removed from the current series "with immediate effect".

The move follows media watchdog Ofcom's demand that C4 must respond to complaints about 'racist' comments.

"Clearly what is happening is very serious," said Ofcom's chief executive Ed Richards.

A record 30,000 complaints have been made over alleged racist remarks towards Indian actress and Big Brother contestant Shetty.


----------



## garyc

Can we have a fatwa on Jade Goody? I'll chip in.


----------



## Karcsi

> What constitutes racism is a complex question. We have been monitoring extremely carefully events in the house and have reached the view that we cannot with certainty say that the comments directed at Shilpa have been racially motivated or whether they stem from broader cultural and social differences.


WTF?! Yes they are culturally and socially different: three foul mouthed uneducated under-achievers, and one educated successful Indian. Does that make it all OK then? By that account, I guess bullying at school is OK as well. "Ah, cherub has beaten the crap out of Johnny. That's OK, they're just different."

I don't understand this fixation with race. Have the 3 women behaved in a respectible and decent manner towards the 4th? Yes or no? It's surely as simple as that. Yes, using racial slurs will undoubtedly make the comments more hurtful. But what is more important - the overall hurt, or the way it was achieved?


----------



## Hilly10

Would not turn the telly on for it what a load of utter shit :evil: :evil:


----------



## jampott

Karcsi said:


> What constitutes racism is a complex question. We have been monitoring extremely carefully events in the house and have reached the view that we cannot with certainty say that the comments directed at Shilpa have been racially motivated or whether they stem from broader cultural and social differences.
> 
> 
> 
> WTF?! Yes they are culturally and socially different: three foul mouthed uneducated under-achievers, and one educated successful Indian. Does that make it all OK then? By that account, I guess bullying at school is OK as well. "Ah, cherub has beaten the crap out of Johnny. That's OK, they're just different."
> 
> I don't understand this fixation with race. Have the 3 women behaved in a respectible and decent manner towards the 4th? Yes or no? It's surely as simple as that. Yes, using racial slurs will undoubtedly make the comments more hurtful. But what is more important - the overall hurt, or the way it was achieved?
Click to expand...

Big Brother is entirely based around creating an atmosphere in the house which will produce tension and divide. Arguments are the accepted nature of such a program.


----------



## Dr_Parmar

TTwiggy said:


> Sorry Doc - you quote me and then refer to being sworn at - I'm not aware that I did so?...


sorry twiggy, it wasnt you that swore at me! didnt mean for it to look like that!


----------



## Dr_Parmar

Rogue said:


> Dr_Parmar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now id like to make a few points, a technicality maybe but i believe the effigy was made out of straw and covered in cloth which was neither white or brown, i dont think they were burning a "white" man but the idea of big brother which has allowed the bullying and some believe (and i agree) racist comments made in the program. Can i also point out that it WASNT ME PERSONALLY who burnt the thing, and i am amazed im having to defend this. It was also a grouop of about 20 people in a small village in india which has a population of over 1 billion!
> 
> 
> 
> Couldn't they have just burned a big logo of an eye?
> 
> Rogue
Click to expand...

Lol maybe we should get on the next flight and ask em  
im just wondering how word had got round to them all the way over to a small village! Some of my friends are telling me that most of the villages have broad band now! They could be reading this thread!


----------



## jampott

Dr_Parmar said:


> Rogue said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr_Parmar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now id like to make a few points, a technicality maybe but i believe the effigy was made out of straw and covered in cloth which was neither white or brown, i dont think they were burning a "white" man but the idea of big brother which has allowed the bullying and some believe (and i agree) racist comments made in the program. Can i also point out that it WASNT ME PERSONALLY who burnt the thing, and i am amazed im having to defend this. It was also a grouop of about 20 people in a small village in india which has a population of over 1 billion!
> 
> 
> 
> Couldn't they have just burned a big logo of an eye?
> 
> Rogue
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol maybe we should get on the next flight and ask em
> im just wondering how word had got round to them all the way over to a small village! Some of my friends are telling me that most of the villages have broad band now! They could be reading this thread!
Click to expand...

How ignorant and disrespectful to assume that small villages in India have no connections to the outside world. :roll:


----------



## zedman

just been watching a the Channel 4 news and they showed a scene of the model (whoever she is) saying of Shilpa 'she can't even speak English properly', now i've not seen a whole load of CBB but whats wrong with her English? If it is as it seems to me just spoken with a different accent then her saying that IMHO can only be based on Shilpa being Indian, which surely means that she's trying to slag her off based on that. Now i'm not saying that she or any of the others are racist and the fact that they don't get on with her i'm sure isnt based on her colour BUT the fact that when they want to slag her off they use the whole Indian thing to do it is in my opinion totally pathetic and i dont see any justification for it! And before somebody says 'what if they were white but got called fatty, that wouldn't be a big deal.....', well you're right it might not in that case be a big deal to the media, but the person who said it would still be pathetic would they not? When i saw that model saying that on the news just now it seemed like proper childish behaviour, just because the media is making this huge and SOME people are over reacting i don't think it's an excuse for that behaviour in any way..
Flame suit zipped up!


----------



## Karcsi

jampott said:


> Big Brother is entirely based around creating an atmosphere in the house which will produce tension and divide. Arguments are the accepted nature of such a program.


But does that relieve them from their obligations to common decency?

Of course some people will naturally resort to the lowest common denominator when "presenting" an argument, which will include (mostly consist of) swearing and slurs, some of which will be based on race / colour / creed. But does being ignorant / ill educated / having the wrong social background excuse someone of being deliberately and unreasonably hurtful towards someone else?

Yes, the environment is unnatural and potentially stressful. But they are not kids? Cannot they control themselves? They are hardly at risk of death or harm, so what is there to be stressed about? If they were having to decide who to eat first, then I'd understand. Then again, perceived expectations for Jade to "perform" and justify her celebrity status may be just as stressful for her (and she maybe quite peckish as well  ).


----------



## jampott

Karcsi said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> Big Brother is entirely based around creating an atmosphere in the house which will produce tension and divide. Arguments are the accepted nature of such a program.
> 
> 
> 
> But does that relieve them from their obligations to common decency?
> 
> Of course some people will naturally resort to the lowest common denominator when "presenting" an argument, which will include (mostly consist of) swearing and slurs, some of which will be based on race / colour / creed. But does being ignorant / ill educated / having the wrong social background excuse someone of being deliberately and unreasonably hurtful towards someone else?
> 
> Yes, the environment is unnatural and potentially stressful. But they are not kids? Cannot they control themselves? They are hardly at risk of death or harm, so what is there to be stressed about? If they were having to decide who to eat first, then I'd understand. Then again, perceived expectations for Jade to "perform" and justify her celebrity status may be just as stressful for her (and she maybe quite peckish as well  ).
Click to expand...

There is mud being slung from both sides, and I strongly believe it would be exactly the same is Shilpa was a posh, elegant, attractive and well spoken white girl.

Of course there is no excuse for the way Jade etc are behaving, the language they are using but the arrogance and contempt that Shilpa and Jermaine show doesn't help matters either.


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## thebears

Why have we wasted 12 pages on this dribble :roll:


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## Karcsi

jampott said:


> There is mud being slung from both sides, and I strongly believe it would be exactly the same is Shilpa was a posh, elegant, attractive and well spoken white girl.
> 
> Of course there is no excuse for the way Jade etc are behaving, the language they are using but the arrogance and contempt that Shilpa and Jermaine show doesn't help matters either.


To be honest, my first instinct was that it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other - the low lifes resorting to what they know best when coming across a spoilt brat from a strongly class orientated culture. But I have not seen the show, and don't intend to, so I can only go by what the press has quoted as being said. "Oh, the poor sweet child." Or perhaps not.


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## Major Audi Parts Guru

Personally I think the whole BB thing is an absolute load of crap. The only real winners are the people who make the show. The more publicity the show gets, beit good or bad, the more people will watch it

I would sooner watch paint dry than watch an episode of BB :roll:


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## saint

All this crap stems from people's inability to see past colour (not just coloured/white but coloured/coloured too) - this applies to both sides of the arguement. Forget colour - forget racism - what is not "PC" is uncalled for personal attacks. The sooner we get past this colour issue the World will move on - respect people for what/who they are. After all we are all humans.

My comments do not mean we have to get on with everyone... oh no... personalities will blow away that one, thankfully.

At the end of all this - it is us the UK public that should be ashamed of ourselves.... it is we that have worshiped these so called celebs and put them in the positions they find themselves. FFS some thick bint from "s'af Lundumb" (now was that racist? I think this week it is), a couple of "actors", ex-singers & some old fart of a film director!! Big up the UK if that's how we want to be entertained .

Anyway I must finish before I start going on about football too......!


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## Rogue

On the news today, it said that Shilpa told Big Brother that she did not think the housemates were being racist towards her.
This was on the same night that Jade and her apparently made up.

It all stinks of damage limitation from the Big Brother production company now.

Victim's of their own hype?

Rogue


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## GoingTTooFast

I saw Jade Goody say a few days ago that she herself was of mixed race. I assume she meant half human half Klingon.

Hopefully this will be the end of her 'career'.

Fucking mugwump.


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## jonah

GoingTTooFast said:


> Hopefully this will be the end of her 'career'.
> 
> Fucking mugwump.


Probably the only good thing to come out of this, However look at how Kate Moss bounced back :wink:


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## GoingTTooFast

jonah said:


> GoingTTooFast said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully this will be the end of her 'career'.
> 
> Fucking mugwump.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably the only good thing to come out of this, However look at how Kate Moss bounced back :wink:
Click to expand...

Fair one. And I'd say Jade could bounce better than Kate! :wink:


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## garyc

Maybe if we ignore the pig and dont join the debate, she will just go away and end up stacking shelves or some other suitable vocation.

Gordon Brown is on the case from an international perspective, so that is good.

It's all really, really interesting.


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## Rogue

garyc said:


> Maybe if we ignore the pig and dont join the debate, she will just go away and end up stacking shelves or some other suitable vocation.
> 
> Gordon Brown is on the case from an international perspective, so that is good.
> 
> It's all really, really interesting.


She's a millionaire, so I doubt she'll end up needing to work ever again.

Rogue


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## GoingTTooFast

Rogue said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe if we ignore the pig and dont join the debate, she will just go away and end up stacking shelves or some other suitable vocation.
> 
> Gordon Brown is on the case from an international perspective, so that is good.
> 
> It's all really, really interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> She's a millionaire, so I doubt she'll end up needing to work ever again.
> 
> Rogue
Click to expand...

She's also a fuckwit, so never say never!


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## Rogue

GoingTTooFast said:


> Rogue said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> garyc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe if we ignore the pig and dont join the debate, she will just go away and end up stacking shelves or some other suitable vocation.
> 
> Gordon Brown is on the case from an international perspective, so that is good.
> 
> It's all really, really interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> She's a millionaire, so I doubt she'll end up needing to work ever again.
> 
> Rogue
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She's also a fuckwit, so never say never!
Click to expand...

Aye, but a *rich* fuckwit 

Rogue


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## garyc

A million doesn't go far, once the income dries up. and she doesn't come across as the happiest bunny.

Employing pa's etc and living the celeb lifestyle could soon drain things.

Maybe she will discover expensive drugs and stick her fortune up her nose - it's big enough (the nose).

Fingers crossed.

BUT something tells me that in a Max Clifford type scenario, the Pig will bounce back as one of life's 'Victims'. Poor thing, deprived childhood etc
 :x


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## GoingTTooFast

If anyone ever deserved a one handed, foul mouthed, tattooed lesbian mother, it's her.

And possibly Keith Chegwin. I hate him.


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## Dr_Parmar

GoingTTooFast said:


> If anyone ever deserved a one handed, foul mouthed, tattooed lesbian mother, it's her.
> 
> And possibly Keith Chegwin. I hate him.


lol why keith chegwin?


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## Captain Beeflat

GoingTTooFast.
Sadly, with her brain power, she would not regard her mother as a disadvantage. Just slags.


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## Dotti

Rogue said:


> She's a millionaire, so I doubt she'll end up needing to work ever again.
> 
> Rogue


About to become bankrupt I reckon! Anything associated with Miss Goody products have been withdawn off shelves! :lol:.

Foul mouthed gobby Biatch! :wink:


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## GoingTTooFast

Dotti said:


> Rogue said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's a millionaire, so I doubt she'll end up needing to work ever again.
> 
> Rogue
> 
> 
> 
> About to become bankrupt I reckon! Anything associated with Miss Goody products have been withdawn off shelves! :lol:.
> 
> Foul mouthed gobby Biatch! :wink:
Click to expand...

Couldn't happen to a nicer 'woman'.

It's quite ironic the programme that 'made' her now ruins her! Maybe this was always the plan and Channel 4 bosses are playing God with her life?

Or maybe she really is just a nasty fuckwit. I don't know.


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## Private Prozac

Yeah, but _you_ still would wouldn't ya? :wink:


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## genocidalduck

TT2BMW said:


> Yeah, but _you_ still would wouldn't ya? :wink:


Feck it i would


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## TTotal

Desperate Duck more like :lol:


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## Private Prozac

Yeah, not much of a boat race but, fuck me, what a rack she's supporting up top!


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## jbell

TT2BMW said:


> Yeah, but _you_ still would wouldn't ya? :wink:


I wouldn't touch that with yours Hippo-croca-pig if you ask me. [smiley=stop.gif]



TT2BMW said:


> Yeah, not much of a boat race but, fuck me, what a rack she's supporting up top!


Bought and paid for as well as the lips and sucking the fat from her belly cos she can't stop filling that fat mouth of hers.

Song about JADE:

She's a big big girl
Twice the size of me
Hairs on her belly like the branches on a tree
She can piss, shit, fart, fuck, wheel a barrow, push a truck
Thats my girl called Goody

I feel quite sorry for Jack though even though he is a knob, people always say "If you want to see what your girlfriend will be like when she is older look at her mother" HA HA bad luck sucker you haven't even realised yet :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 
[smiley=hanged.gif]


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## GoingTTooFast

She's got a face like a bag of angry frogs. She looks like she fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.

I don't think there is enough money in the world that could persuade me to touch that.

Alcohol maybe, but certainly not money.


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## jbell

GoingTTooFast said:


> She's got a face like a bag of angry frogs. She looks like she fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.
> 
> I don't think there is enough money in the world that could persuade me to touch that.
> 
> Alcohol maybe, but certainly not money.


Alcohol  she is considerably worse than a 10 pint princess


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## GoingTTooFast

jbell said:


> GoingTTooFast said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's got a face like a bag of angry frogs. She looks like she fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.
> 
> I don't think there is enough money in the world that could persuade me to touch that.
> 
> Alcohol maybe, but certainly not money.
> 
> 
> 
> Alcohol  she is considerably worse than a 10 pint princess
Click to expand...

For alcohol, read methalated spirits :wink:


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## jbell

GoingTTooFast said:


> jbell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GoingTTooFast said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's got a face like a bag of angry frogs. She looks like she fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.
> 
> I don't think there is enough money in the world that could persuade me to touch that.
> 
> Alcohol maybe, but certainly not money.
> 
> 
> 
> Alcohol  she is considerably worse than a 10 pint princess
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For alcohol, read methalated spirits :wink:
Click to expand...

So is she a Bag, a Bag Bag or a Croc?


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## TTotal

A 3 bagger, one each and a spare on her incase it splits.


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## GoingTTooFast

A definate hippocrocapig, no 2 ways about it.

She's always been ugly. Apparently she was the only baby in london to have shutters on her pram.


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## bilbos

GoingTTooFast said:


> She's always been ugly. Apparently she was the only baby in london to have shutters on her pram.


 :lol: :lol:


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## donny

TTotal said:


> A 3 bagger, one each and a spare on her incase it splits.


No,No,No it cayote treatment, wake up and chew your arm off so not to disturb it probably three bagger as well


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## KammyTT

I think the whole thing has went we ll over the top, i dont see it as racist,
just slagging end of! People use RACISM as an exscuse for everything imho. there are racists out there but you can tell the difference between idiots using it as they cant think of anything bright to say and the real racists. :?.


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## Private Prozac

KammyTT said:


> I think the whole thing has went we ll over the top, i dont see it as racist
> just slagging end of! People use RACISM as an exscuse for everythingimho. there are racists out there but you can tell the difference between idiots using it as they cant think of anything bright to say and the real recists. :?


You got a hangover chap? :wink:


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## KammyTT

nah lol, crashed and burned at 9pm, 2 weeks of nightshift has got to me in the end


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## Toshiba

what a fix.


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## Wak

jampott said:


> Danielle saying that she wished Shilpa would fuck off home... that's a bit ambiguous I guess - but even so, its hardly racist to want someone out of the BB house.


I gave up at page 8.. ambiguous!! :roll:

Seems so many experienced people are willing to argue about terms that have no meaning in their perspective.

What is a shame is that should you be fortunate to visit or live in India , you wouldnt have the opportunity to experience taunts that could be racist as you would experience a level of respect that clearly the bow-wow and 2 tails have no understanding of.

Ignorance is indeed the foundation of the comments made but likewise ignorance is there through inexperience and I pity those posting with such bravado who clearly have no personal understanding of the subject at all.

When you have lived it or have children you love dearly coming home having experienced it and have to deal with it then perhaps your opinion can be valid.

Sorry but unless you live it you havent got a fecking clue!

"Shilpa Fukkawalla, Shilpa Poppadum, Why doesnt she fuck off back home, Paki....etc!"

Daniellas comments were the best for the wrong reasons... She should go back home because her experience here is far from what you would receive over there and I hope she stays where she can live a life without meeting people like this ever again!

Yes you may have been Bullied, Racism is an extension of that be it that you were bullied for your size, features , mannerisms or colour or culture... but it takes on a different level malice when you are targeted for skin colour and considered less than human!


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## Guest

Wak said:


> but it takes on a different level malice when you are targeted for skin colour and considered less than human!


i dont think she was targeted for her skin colour. Im sure the exact same comments would have been made if Sh-w-pah would have been from Scotland! Yes its another country, but you cant play the "race" card.

Loads of people are or have been bullied for all different reasons, as mentioned before. Thats all this is= bullying, nothing more nothing less.

Blown well out of proportion IMHO


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## Private Prozac

Wak ~ I don't think anybody on here disagrees at all with what you've said. But ........

I think the issue addressed was the distinction between bullying and racism. I too was bullied at school to such a degree that I didn't want to go to certain lessons or was scared to leave at the end of the day for fear of bumping in to my tormentors.

My personal opinion was that Shilpa was a victim of bullying and ignorance. I don't personally believe that she was a victim of racism and was being attacked or picked on for the colour of her skin.

There is no ground or justification in society, especially ours, for an attack on a person based on the colour of their skin. However, people do have the right to 'not get on' or 'dislike' that same person whether they be white, brown, yellow or black without being in fear of being classed as racist.

I sincerely hope that none of my comments have caused offence. I have no issues at all with race, colour, religon etc and consider you and yours to be valuable friends.


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## Guest

re: end of Jade Goody's career - *I didnt know she had one!!* 

who in their right mind would give her enough cash to get her bank balance to show 7 figures? :? :? :?


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## Wak

TT2BMW said:


> My personal opinion was that Shilpa was a victim of bullying and ignorance. I don't personally believe that she was a victim of racism and was being attacked or picked on for the colour of her skin.
> .


I agree on the basis it started as bullying by ignorance..... but that turned into anger which then turned into childish jibes followed by taunts which were racially biased.

Whats missed is the start was not racial, jealousy needing the spark to ignite it perhaps, I'm sure there are hormonal undertones that made these two women spark off, but the escalation when heated turned into comments that are not acceptable in the context they have been said.

Like most things context is what makes the difference.

I'm not offended Neil, those that know me, know me for the respect I give them. I hope that no one who has left me with any malice for my background.

This debate hits home because I have lived it, grown out of it associate myself with "I hope" mature people who are above it.

But I recently have had to live it again with my children and its clearly not something thats going away.

All forms of bullying are unnacceptable, racism is an extension of this, the racism my kids have experienced isnt put on national TV and flaunted is the main difference.

The whole BB thing is the countries own making because its highlighted a snapshot in the media and against "kind of" Indian national hero, of course more people will get involved and it will escalate. If they werent celebs then it may not have had such an media frenzy!

As for anyone saying "dont like it switch it off"........ Whats my options.... 
Dont like it change school
Dont like it leave the country
Dont like it leave the planet... 
Dont like it commit suicide... 
Hows about we dont do it in the first place!

Whilst that is an ideal, its impractical as we all find some humour in it and will relive it in a less than racial manner.....
for example.....

A black dude can call a fellow black dude "my ******" in his circles but it would be unnacceptable for any other colour to use that term would it not?

That numpty Shebaz brings "I'm a Paki Puff" to national TV - thanks you asshole!

those sites you mentioned again highlight a context in Asians now using Paki on themselves being acceptable but not so from anyone else.

The point I am making is yes some terms previously racial are now accepted and used by those that were the targets but the context in which they are used makes all the difference....

BB started as a stupid argument..... shouting match..... to anger..... and escalated to the ignorance of childish jibes some of which in the context were racially attacking becuse of the aforementioned sequence of events.

Trouble is.... it was on national TV and we all now know the media can even make a story of OXO cubes!


----------



## Martin_TT

Jade is soooooo thick she doesnt even realise that she is being racist. How the fuck is she a celebrity i dont know and shes worth 8 million ehh.. what for being thick as pig crap. Makes me so made that shes rich and i work my arse off to make ends meat. Whats up with this world. Excuse me im going to check my blood pressure :evil: :evil: :evil:


----------



## Toshiba

Martin_TT said:


> Makes me so made that shes rich and i work my arse off to make ends meat.


What was it made from?
What meat was it? Pork?

:lol:

Sorry couldn't help it :lol: 

Seems to have been forgotten, but from the news (as i don't watch this crap) the main racist comment was "white trash" however this seem to have been swept under the carpet because the target of the insult is WHITE.
Its was a direct racist remark, jades comments had over tones, but nothing as blunt and direct as that comment!


----------

