# "Can be released"



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Makes my blood boil.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24446126


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, I agree, crazy UK. :evil: 
Hoggy.


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

I'll second and third that.

It's incredible how flimsical the punishment for severe crime is in this country :evil:


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

It was on the radio as I was driving home couldn't believe what I was hearing absolute disgrace


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

its a bit fifficult to understand,,, maybe if she had robbed a bank while her child was suffering she would have gotten a bit longer,, i would like to read the reasons for the parole before i jump to judgment tho


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

roddy said:


> i would like to read the reasons for the parole before i jump to judgment tho


Does it really matter? 
She allowed her own son to suffer and die of 40 injuries. She should be locked up for life and also be sterilised


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

" does it matter " , huh ???


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## j8keith (Jun 26, 2009)

A3DFU said:


> I'll second and third that.
> 
> It's incredible how flimsical the punishment for severe crime is in this country :evil:


+1, people like that should never be allowed to walk the streets again. :evil:


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

I find people who have little or no contact with the criminal justice system and the people caught up in it have very black and white views on the administration of justice - wrong is wrong and must be punished and offenders should pay a severe price for their offending. On the face of it an attitude that can appear quite reasonable.

I used to think much the same way.

But after 20 years of being immersed in a rather shitty world that most people are thankfully kept insulated from my views have not hardened, as you might expect, but have gone in the opposite direction. The general public view is one that tends to ignore the simple human factors of what goes on in our world. There is in fact very little real evil out there. A great deal of offending - and this particular case is likely to be an example - is based not in evil but rather human inadequacy. Most of us have been brought up to live our lives by a certain set of values but have also been equipped with a set of social skills that helps us cope with the complex issues of life. Some people not only haven't been given those values but also have never been taught those essential social skills. They have been let down by their parents - if they ever had any to speak of - or society as a whole. In the end they find themselves wholly incapable of dealing with life, and inevitably it goes wrong and they commit offences.

Yes, they do know what they are doing is wrong. They are not so far removed from society to not understand that, but often they have no other coping mechanism or are incapable of dealing with a particular situation in any other way. Sometimes they just can't help but behave as they do - they are simply wired that way.

It's not making excuses for anybody, but it's important to have an understanding of why people do what they do beyond just demonising them. They are not demons - they are human beings - but less capable than the rest of us at fitting in to a complex, modern society. And this is what parole boards are looking at when they make these decisions. They are not just blindly applying a set of blanket values, thinking of nothing but the offence committed in the fashion that we on the outside might do. They are looking at the individual involved, trying to work out why they did what they did and ultimately deciding whether any purpose is served by keeping them locked up or if indeed doing that just takes a bad situation and makes it worse.

Unless we want a society where anyone who commits any kind of offence, however trivial, gets thrown behind bars for the rest of their lives then we have to release these offenders at some point. Yes a sentence invoves an element of retribution for society but it isn't as simple as that - it's also about reform and trying to prevent offenders committing crime again.

Is it right that this woman be released? I really don't know because like most everyone else I know very little about her beyond what it was she did - and yes that was truly awful. But I know nothing about why that happened and I certainly am not in a position to decide whether keeping her in prison serves any further purpose. In short it is a very complicated matter that we need to appreciate we know precious little about. Her actions might suggest this woman is 'evil' but my experience tells me it really isn't going to be as simple as that. I'm happy to leave this decision to the professionals who have all the information needed and trust that they will make the best decision possible.


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Mark Davies said:


> I find people who have little or no contact with the criminal justice system and the people caught up in it have very black and white views on the administration of justice - wrong is wrong and must be punished and offenders should pay a severe price for their offending. On the face of it an attitude that can appear quite reasonable.
> 
> I used to think much the same way.
> 
> ...


She let an innocent little child die a horrible horrible death, and was a key factor in that death, many mothers have a hard life, bad parents or poor upbringing. They don't allow this to happen to their child. You can't blame society on this one.

The evil cow should be put to sleep, if it was allowed I'd happy push the button.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

brian1978 said:


> You can't blame society on this one.


I wasn't blaming society - except perhaps in the most remote and indirect sense. The point I'm making is it's all too easy and over-simplistic to just brand people as 'evil', as you have just done. In 20 years of policing I have encountered literally hundreds of offenders of all kinds, including people who have committed similar crimes to this woman. Amongst those I have dealt with perhaps just one or two genuine psychopaths but other than that nobody that I could honestly label 'evil'.

I doubt this woman is 'evil' at all. I suspect it is more likely that she is woefully inadequate in any kind of social skills, unable to interact with those around her in any kind of meaningful fashion, unable to cope with the difficulties of life that she encounters and of course it goes without saying equipped with no parenting skills whatsoever. In fact, in terms of social development I wouldn't be surprised if despite her age she's little more than a child herself. These people exist, they exist in numbers and by-and-large they make up the vast majority of the people whom I deal with on a daily basis. Agreed, they will never make any kind of meaningful contribution to society and will spend their lives being a drain on public resources and a blight to everyone unfortunate enough to encounter them. Now that may well be a good enough argument on its own for keeping them locked away all their lives - it all depends on what sort of society we want to be.


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

I'm gobsmacked that you can defend or make excuses for this piece of shit Mark. You are entitled to your own opinion, but I doubt many of us will agree with you on this one. 
I know personally one person who lost a brother to an evil bas#[email protected]#, and anyone who makes excuses for him mist be a bit soft in the head. They periodically get their life's re-destroyed when this animals "human rights" are made front page news in the papers.

It turns my stomach when I see or hear people defending human scum who have taken innocent peoples life's.

Sorry mark, we will have to agree to disagree on this one.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

I agree with Mark personally. I don't believe in 'evil', because I don't believe in make believe reasons for why people do terrible things. There is always a reason for peoples actions, and using abstract, archaic notions like 'evil' just excuses us as a society from trying to understand and prevent them.

Finding the events and situations that lead someone to be the way they are, and do the things they do doesn't mean we're trying to absolve them of blame.


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Spandex said:


> I agree with Mark personally. I don't believe in 'evil', because I don't believe in make believe reasons for why people do terrible things. There is always a reason for peoples actions, and using abstract, archaic notions like 'evil' just excuses us as a society from trying to understand and prevent them.
> 
> Finding the events and situations that lead someone to be the way they are, and do the things they do doesn't mean we're trying to absolve them of blame.


Wicked, bad, sociopath, whatever I don't mean evil in some "the devil is in them way", ppl like that are not right in the head and don't deserve to be in society, like I said I'd hang them.

Although paradoxically I don't believe in capital punishment. My reason for this is although I'd happily hang the above person I do believe we are satisfied that they are 100% guilty. 
Unfortunately it would only be a matter of time before someone got stitched up or mistakes were made and innocent people died. So we can't have 1 rule for them and one rule for others. So sadly we can't euthanize animals like her.

It's a complex situation.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

brian1978 said:


> like I said I'd hang them.


Some might argue that volunteering to execute someone makes you 'not right in the head'. Does that mean you should be hanged too? We'd need a volunteer to do it though. I can see this turning into a bit of a conveyor belt...


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Spandex said:


> brian1978 said:
> 
> 
> > like I said I'd hang them.
> ...


I'd imagine most mothers/fathers would like to see baby killers hanged. I don't think we would have a shortage of volunteers for the above said person. Only people on this thread who are not right in the head is the people making excuses for them.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

let us not confuse reasoning with excuses


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Brain, you really do need to spend a bit more time trying to understand the arguments that people are making. At no point have I tried to make excuses for this woman or defend anything that she has done. I've simply made the point that it really isn't as simple as just condemning people as 'evil' and therefore based on some limited knowledge of the offences they committed deciding they should stay in prison for all their life. Not that simple at all. In fact, very far from it.


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Mark Davies said:


> Brain, you really do need to spend a bit more time trying to understand the arguments that people are making. At no point have I tried to make excuses for this woman or defend anything that she has done. I've simply made the point that it really isn't as simple as just condemning people as 'evil' and therefore based on some limited knowledge of the offences they committed deciding they should stay in prison for all their life. Not that simple at all. In fact, very far from it.


It's the way you put it, oh she's not bad or wicked, just hard done by. Life has been shit to her so this must be why she allowed her baby to be basically tortured to death. The system failed HER?

Bollocks! If she gets out in anything less than a life term then it's too soon. You get more time in jail for robbing a bank than you do for killing a baby. This countrys justice system can be a joke sometimes.

Back in 2000 a gang got caught trying to steal a debeers diamond display, in 2002 they got between 15 and 18 years each, and they didn't even actually steal the stones.

So you get 18 years(served 9) for failing to steal a stone but you get 3 or 4 years for killing or allowing a toddler to die. He had 50 injuries including a broken back.

Something is very wrong here.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Spandex said:


> ...I can see this turning into a bit of a conveyor belt...


Classic... :lol:


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

brian1978 said:


> So you get 18 years(served 9) for failing to steal a stone but you get 3 or 4 years for killing or allowing a toddler to die. He had 50 injuries including a broken back.
> 
> Something is very wrong here.


I agree with that statement Brian. Perhaps because I'm a mother and grandmother and I fail to understand how/why anyone can willingly harm a helpless child


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

A3DFU said:


> brian1978 said:
> 
> 
> > So you get 18 years(served 9) for failing to steal a stone but you get 3 or 4 years for killing or allowing a toddler to die. He had 50 injuries including a broken back.
> ...


Because they are sick in the head? 
I'm not a parent or a grandparent but I also feel that way Dani, i just think you have to be a decent human being to feel that way, how someone can do that to a child is beyond me.


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## andyTT180 (Mar 19, 2010)

What really annoys me is you see people who commit fraud getting life in prison, they don't physically hurt anyone! Then you get paedophiles who get 5 years for sexually abusing a young child! Don't get me wrong I am in no way condoning fraudsters but in reality embezzling money from a multi million pound corporate company is hardly in the same league as a monster who abuses a child, rapes someone or murders someone [smiley=gossip.gif]


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

andyTT180 said:


> What really annoys me is you see people who commit fraud getting life in prison, they don't physically hurt anyone! Then you get paedophiles who get 5 years for sexually abusing a young child! Don't get me wrong I am in no way condoning fraudsters but in reality embezzling money from a multi million pound corporate company is hardly in the same league as a monster who abuses a child, rapes someone or murders someone [smiley=gossip.gif]


Seems in the eyes of the law the assets of a millionaire/billionaire are more valued than a child's innocence or life.

It's a wonderfully sick world we live in


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## Nyxx (May 1, 2012)

A3DFU said:


> roddy said:
> 
> 
> > i would like to read the reasons for the parole before i jump to judgment tho
> ...


+1
Or we could just kill the bitch and save our tax money.

I don't meen a nice "humane" dead o no, am all for a long and very painful death for the bastards I have in mind(not her). Like the two that killed that Solider on the streets of London. 
One of them has just pleaded no guilty. NOT GUILTY. fook me, we are so "civilised" it makes me vomit.


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Nyxx said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> > roddy said:
> ...


Sounds good to me, the problem is that some people seem to think she just needs a hug :?


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## Nyxx (May 1, 2012)

brian1978 said:


> Sounds good to me, the problem is that some people seem to think she just needs a hug :?


Yer and a free holiday on the tax payers and I'm sure she will be find and dandy.


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

brian1978 said:


> Nyxx said:
> 
> 
> > A3DFU said:
> ...


She won't get one from me that's for sure :evil:


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## Nyxx (May 1, 2012)

Dexter would give her the kind of hug she needs


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## Nyxx (May 1, 2012)

Mark Davies said:


> Is it right that this woman be released? I really don't know because like most everyone else I know very little about her beyond what it was she did - and yes that was truly awful. But I know nothing about why that happened and I certainly am not in a position to decide whether keeping her in prison serves any further purpose. In short it is a very complicated matter that we need to appreciate we know precious little about. Her actions might suggest this woman is 'evil' but my experience tells me it really isn't going to be as simple as that. I'm happy to leave this decision to the professionals who have all the information needed and trust that they will make the best decision possible.


Bless her, she just needs to be understood, no it's not her fault it was because of the way she was bought up. Just like Fred west, it was not his fault O no... it was because he came of his motor bike and hit the front of his head when he was 17-18 he was out cold for a week. Bless him. It just did his brain in poor lad.
" I really don't know because like most everyone else I know very little about" him.....O wait...he still did what he did. 
How he or she got to that point only matters to try and find and stop the same kind of people doing the same thing it does not change what they did or more to the point what they have proven they are capable of doing.

Bit like when a dog is bought up to fight, when one of these dogs rips the face of a child. Should we take the dog off to a home and give it loads of squeaky toys, feed it pedigree chum and lots of hugs and kiss's. Because it's not the dog fault is it.

No it straight round to the vets and put down. Job done.


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Nyxx said:


> Bless her


Bless her = B less her = be less (of) her :roll:


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## zltm089 (Jul 27, 2009)

Nyxx said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> > roddy said:
> ...


plus one million.

And surprised how people can "defend" her or start a mini legal moral case for her! No wonder, you get terrorists and paedoes getting away with it! And there was some crazy fucker who was released and then he murdered again!!!!!!....

Just because some "clever" judge or jury, decided in a logical constructive factual "clever" intelligent way that he deserved to be on the streets again....

Not fucking rocket science is it?! No need to write bloody book on evil psychology or the moral of life or some other philosophical crap! A murderer is a murderer!...fucking lock them cants! what is there to think about?!


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## Nyxx (May 1, 2012)

No more "can be" its now

"Released"


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Just be happy that Lord Longford isn't still knocking about he would be taking her away on holiday.

I would imagine and hope that this ladies' life is made very unconfortable by whoever she lives near.


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Nyxx said:


> No more "can be" its now
> 
> "Released"


Jesus what's it coming to, a baby's life means nothing anymore. It's sad.

I wonder if them fellas that tried to pinch the debeers diamond display back in 1999 are still locked up?


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Nyxx said:


> No more "can be" its now
> 
> "Released"


To go on to procreate then kill the offspring [smiley=argue.gif]


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## Nyxx (May 1, 2012)

Bless her, happy days.  
Human rights for the win  
The British justice system is the best
or as Mark says
" I'm happy to leave this decision to the professionals who have all the information needed and trust that they will make the best decision possible."
That's right!................
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All the above is a load of boll0cks but just shows how people think in this country. I wonder if any of them "professionals who have all the information" will/would have her round for a spot of baby siting? or anyone who is happy to trust them "professionals" would trust them with there own?

unbelievable.......truly unbelievable.


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