# Upgraded to RNS-E and suffered radio signal reduction?



## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

I recently swapped my Audi Symphony CD/Radio for an RNS-E unit and, although the sound quality is much improved, I have experienced a decrease in radio reception quality on weaker stations.

Thanks to a link posted by Hadaak (viewtopic.php?f=19&t=243750) I have found our that there are two different antenna technologies used by the two units.

_"Various FM aerial systems are installed in the 
vehicle to serve the various radio tuner systems. 
Radios with phase diversity for FM reception 
(= chorus, concert or symphony radios) have 
a different FM aerial system to radios with switched 
diversity (= Navigation plus (RNS-E) or Navigation 
(BNS 5.0))"_

Researching a little into these technologies, it would seem that the system on my old Syphony unit was actually better than that on the RNS-E.

_Phase Diversity - Active
This patented type of diversity utilizes two antennas spaced an optimum distance apart, which are connected into a single high-quality receiver. The antenna signals are connected internally to microprocessor logic circuits that monitor the phase relationship between the two antennas. Both antennas are active at all times which greatly increases the signal strength under normal conditions. In the event of a signal interruption from a partial phase cancellation (multipath) or total phase cancellation (drop-out) the logic circuitry adjusts the phase of one of the antennas to a positive condition relative to the other which instantly corrects the phase cancellation. This process occurs in 1/300th of a second.
_
_Antenna Switching Diversity - Active
Antenna switching diversity uses a single high-quality receiver, along with two isolated antenna inputs fed to a signal strength comparator. When the signal begins to deteriorate in the primary antenna, the comparator selects the other antenna to try to improve the signal strength. Since this diversity technique only requires one receiver, the designer will often make a receiver with superior RF & IF filtering for the same given price point as the twin reciver diversity. This single high quality receiver will often provide superior performance in sensitivity, sleectivity and IM rejection, however, the antenna switching circuitry switches blindly regardless of whether or not the current signal is the strongest of the two. The result can be a switch to a weaker signal than the first, which adds noice, and possible drop-outs into the signal path.
(http://www.rentcom.com/wpapers/telex/telex5.html)
_
I get the impression that the antenna hardware in my TT is compatible with my original Symphony unit and not that of the RNS-E, which is why my reception isn't as good.

Is anyone else aware of this difference or even a way of getting round it?


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## glasgow_tt (Nov 13, 2011)

Hi,

sorry I cant assist, however im just about to do a similar thing and will be watching for replies.

Im waiting on delivery of rns-e unit - did you need any additional wiring other than the GPS antenna?

thanks


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## ScoobyTT (Aug 24, 2009)

Hi Peter, haven't seen you around for a while. There is indeed a difference. The only way around it as far as I know is to buy the additional parts needed to go with RNS-E. I'll see what I can find. It appears you just need to rearrange the connections to the antenna amplifiers to enable the correct phasing/diversity. At the moment I think you'd be getting an error that one of them is earthed, which is why reception is pants.


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

glasgow_tt said:


> Hi,
> 
> sorry I cant assist, however im just about to do a similar thing and will be watching for replies.
> 
> ...


The connections on the back are same - A large multi-pin plug and the aerial lead.

The steering wheel controls and the DIS on the dashpod just worked without having to do anything.


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

ScoobyTT said:


> Hi Peter, haven't seen you around for a while. There is indeed a difference. The only way around it as far as I know is to buy the additional parts needed to go with RNS-E. I'll see what I can find.


I've been on the Mk1 side a bit recently.

It's actually an old RNS-E with a failed CD drive - I very much like it for the MP3 control and the sound quality but the radio, which I listen to 95% of the time, isn't quite as good.

I have since read that there's an option in Vag-Com to switch between leather and cloth seats, which improves the sound, so I may put the Symphony back in and give it a go.


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## ScoobyTT (Aug 24, 2009)

Here's a diagram illustrating the different connections to the antenna amplifiers between phased and switched diversity:









You'd need additional connectors and wiring. This topic here (where I've linked that image from) offers one man's way around the problem:
http://m.vagoc.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=349

That seems overkill to me since as far as I can tell, the amplifier at the rear-most part of the boot lid is the same in both cases, just connected differently. There are five connectors. It would appear to only be different if you want a TV tuner.


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

Thanks for the information. 

You wouldn't imagine there to be so much to it - Whatever was wrong with a coat hanger?


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

The car was built several months before RNSE was first available if that makes a difference

Sent from my Nokia 5146
using Tapatalk


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

I wonder how compatible aftermarket systems are with the two types of antenna technology?


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## MXS (May 10, 2010)

peter-ss said:


> I wonder how compatible aftermarket systems are with the two types of antenna technology?


My aftermarket system works fine :wink: ....just goes to show how crap Audi systems are when it comes to compatabilty with their own products


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

MXS said:


> peter-ss said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder how compatible aftermarket systems are with the two types of antenna technology?
> ...


RNSe works fine if you do it correctly and doesn't look like a dogs dinner - unlike the pioneer :lol:


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## glasgow_tt (Nov 13, 2011)

Manged to install my RNS-E today. 
Picking up lots of satellites 7-8 which Im happy with.

Im trying to clear codes in Vagcom . . currently getting... the below error codes.

ive got Rns-e - no bluetooth, no cd changer etc etc...just the headunit... HELP!! 

19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010

37-Navigation -- Status: Not registered 0011

56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533) Labels: 7N0-907-530-V2.clb
Part No SW: 7N0 907 530 J HW: 1K0 907 951 
Component: J533 Gateway H43 1620 
Revision: H43 Serial number: 260811F1000657
Coding: 354101
Shop #: WSC 01236 758 00200
VCID: 3753E7F586569B6

1 Fault Found:
01044 - Control Module Incorrectly Coded 
000 - - 
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100000
Fault Priority: 1
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 570 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2011.11.16
Time: 14:39:59

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 37: Navigation Labels: 8E0-035-192-RNSE.lbl
Part No SW: 8J0 035 192 HW: 8J0 035 192 
Component: RNS-E HIGH EU H10 0650 
Revision: 01S Serial number: AUZBZ7F3593832
Coding: 0619717
Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
VCID: E6EDFAB1D17C52E

4 Faults Found:
00858 - Connection; Radio ZF Output to Antenna Amplifier 
007 - Short to Ground
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100111
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 21
Mileage: 570 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2011.11.16
Time: 14:57:24

Freeze Frame:
Mileage: 570 km
Count: 1611
Clock: 14:57

00857 - CD Changer Unit (R41) 
004 - No Signal/Communication
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100100
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 21
Mileage: 570 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2011.11.16
Time: 14:58:03

01303 - Telephone Transceiver (R36) 
004 - No Signal/Communication
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100100
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 21
Mileage: 570 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2011.11.16
Time: 14:57:24

02005 - Coding Pin 
004 - No Signal/Communication
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100100
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 21
Mileage: 570 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2011.11.16
Time: 14:57:23

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 8E0-035-192-RNSE.lbl
Part No SW: 8J0 035 192 HW: 8J0 035 192 
Component: RNS-E HIGH EU H10 0650 
Revision: 01S Serial number: AUZBZ7F3593832
Coding: 0619717
Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
VCID: E6EDFAB1D17C52E

4 Faults Found:
00858 - Connection; Radio ZF Output to Antenna Amplifier 
007 - Short to Ground
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100111
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 21
Mileage: 570 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2011.11.16
Time: 14:57:24

Freeze Frame:
Mileage: 570 km
Count: 1611
Clock: 14:57

00857 - CD Changer Unit (R41) 
004 - No Signal/Communication
Freeze Frame:
 Fault Status: 01100100
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 21
Mileage: 570 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2011.11.16
Time: 14:58:03

01303 - Telephone Transceiver (R36) 
004 - No Signal/Communication
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100100
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 21
Mileage: 570 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2011.11.16
Time: 14:57:24

02005 - Coding Pin 
004 - No Signal/Communication
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100100
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 21
Mileage: 570 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2011.11.16
Time: 14:57:23

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 61: Battery Regul. (J840) Labels: 1K0-907-534.clb
Part No SW: 7N0 907 534 HW: 1K0 907 951 
Component: Batt.regelung H43 1620 
Serial number: 260811F1000657
Coding: F302015A
Shop #: WSC 01236 758 00200
VCID: F1C799ED28B2856

Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8X0 915 181 HW: 8X0 915 181 
Component: J367-BDM H07 0140

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------


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## ScoobyTT (Aug 24, 2009)

The ZF issues are because of the different antenna configuration. See above. Most of the rest, if not all, are probably due to the unit not being coded into the car properly.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Errors are because you've not coded the system correct.
RNSe is NOT plug and play - ok it will power up and workish, but the chances the coding will match the car are very slim.

Code the unit to match the installed options.


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## IC_HOTT (May 29, 2010)

glasgow_tt said:


> Manged to install my RNS-E today.
> Picking up lots of satellites 7-8 which Im happy with.


where do you get the 7-8 satellite info from ?


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

peter-ss said:


> Thanks for the information.
> 
> You wouldn't imagine there to be so much to it - Whatever was wrong with a coat hanger?


Well the coat hanger would receive the original signal plus a few reflections from buildings and such and that would ruin the reception as a whole.

I think, simply said, the cheap system enables the radio to switch antenna, which ever works best. The expensive system uses one antenna for reception constantly and uses signal from the second antenna to correct what ever is wrong with the signal of the first antenna.

Can you remember the old FM radios and how a simple lamppost could ruin the reception while waiting for a traffic light? You'd move the car a couple of inches and reception was OK again. Solved by advanced antenna technology. Coat hanger can't do that for you. On the other hand, the advanced TT antenna is quite useless for hanging a coat.


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

TT-driver said:


> Can you remember the old FM radios and how a simple lamppost could ruin the reception while waiting for a traffic light? You'd move the car a couple of inches and reception was OK again. Solved by advanced antenna technology


That's what I've reduced mine to by fitting the RNS-E unit with wrong antenna arrangement!

It's interesting though that the Symphony unit has the better phased technology when the RNS-E uses the switched method.


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

Well, your RNS-E will lack the antenna signal for applying corrections now. Hence the old style behaviour. When it has the ability to correct the antenna signal, then I'm sure it will deliver a cleaner radio signal than the just 'selecting the best signal method' of the Symphony.


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

When both systems are installed properly then surely the Symphony is the better system over the RNS-E.

The Symphony uses the phase system but it's the RNS-E that uses the switching method.


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

Useful Brian post?

Have a look at this from another forum:

http://www.vagoc.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=349


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

peter-ss said:


> When both systems are installed properly then surely the Symphony is the better system over the RNS-E.
> 
> The Symphony uses the phase system but it's the RNS-E that uses the switching method.


And that is actually quite surprising.


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## ADB (May 7, 2002)

Sorry to drag up an old thread but it appears the previous owner of my TTRS hasn't done the swap from the Symphony to the RNS-E properly.... My 2009 car was factory supplied with the Symphony head unit but the previous owner decided to replace this with a RNS-E (2nd version without the TV button). It was coded wrong to start with (however that is now sorted)plus I didn't have the radio code. Audi CS asked me to take the car to a dealer along with the V5C and they would provide the code for me. I did this on Sunday and the mechanic who did it asked if I had poor radio reception as there was a fault code (I assume the ZF fault).
Is this a tricky job to do? Is it just a re-arrangement of connectors or do I need to start stripping out bits of the car to get to things and install new cables? I have read the thread on the VAGOC site but am not too sure what to do?

Andy


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## ReTTro fit (Nov 9, 2014)

It requires a new antenna module and a rewire 
Not worth it in my opinion at all

I know of tt's with factory fitted rns-e with the correct antenna that still struggle with radio reception

On iPhone using Tapacrap


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

I never got round to sorting mine out but to be fair the radio reception's not too bad.

Here's a link form above that explains what needs doing.

http://www.vagoc.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=349


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