# M3 reviews in Autocar & Autoexpress



## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

Hmmmmm - bit of a mixed reception TBH, not quite what I was expecting :?

*Autocar - *

"...calm and cultured demeanour comes as something of a shock."
"In the right circumstances, it is absolutely sensational."
"...the new M3 makes the old M3 feel just that: old."
"...it's clear from the surprisingly calm way in which it goes about being an incredibly fast car that there's a harder, more focused version in the post."

I think they're waiting for the CSL :roll:

*Autoexpress - M3 vs. RS4*

"The BMW is unquestionably the better option on a track or an empty road."
"...it's not as involving as previous generations."
"Put simply, it's become too complex."
"...it's the Audi that's more fun day to day."
"So the RS4 wins this test by the narrowest of margins."


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

I predicted that.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

This is interesting, halfway through reading it...

http://www.autospies.com/news/2008-B...you-how-17504/


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

I'm actually quite glad to see that the new M3, albeit a great car, won't have an easy life in front of its competition. For me it means two things:

1 - The old M3 and the RS4 have pushed the bar so high that even BMW is struggling to better it on the dynamic side of things.
2 - For us car enthusiasts it's happy days: better cars are coming out and we get more and more options.

Now with Mercedes bringing the C63 AMG that Autocar has been raving about for the last two weeks it seems that things are getting better and better.

It's the same thing with Z4 Coupe and TT Coupe: these cars are so close to each other in the handling department that you really have more options now.


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

jampott said:


> I predicted that.


You did, I'm not convinced by the reviews yet though.



Leg said:


> This is interesting, halfway through reading it...
> 
> http://www.autospies.com/news/2008-B...you-how-17504/


Nice find. Just had a very quick browse through the headline info. The RS4 and C63 have clearly moved the game on since the E46 was introduced in 2000, but I think that it will become clear that the ///M is still the one to have.
Having said that, anyone lucky enough to be getting any one of those three will be getting a fantastic car [smiley=sweetheart.gif]


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> I predicted that.


No you didn't :lol:

You predicted the M3 would win by the narrowist of margins, however the RS4 won by the narrowist of margins in AE 8) . Your blurb was spot on, as i agreed with you on that in the other thread.

Same old same old. One is loadsa fun all the time & the other is slightly more fun rarely 8)


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## The Silver Surfer (May 14, 2002)

Not sure if this has been posted on here already?

Looks like the CSL may be here sooner than it was in the e46 M3s life cycle.

Click here.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Forgot to say that i was surprised with the AE report that the New M3 is actually heavier than the RS4 saloon :?


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

W7 PMC said:


> Forgot to say that i was surprised with the AE report that the New M3 is actually heavier than the RS4 saloon :?


Official manufacturer's figures....

new M3 - 1655kg

RS4 - 1650kg

Surprising given the RS4's Quattro system and the fact that the M3 has a Carbon Fibre reinforced plastic roof and other 'weight saving' elements.

Not that its a problem if the new M3 is only 'as good' as the RS4. After all, the RS4 is a great car and at this level, the differences between the two will be unnoticeable to someone who thinks his TT is the dogs nuts eh!

Video from Car and Driver - http://www.caranddriver.com/carvideos/? ... 1111621669


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

The Silver Surfer said:


> Not sure if this has been posted on here already?
> 
> Looks like the CSL may be here sooner than it was in the e46 M3s life cycle.
> 
> Click here.


Well, if a car that leaves a rubber trail when floored, power slides like that as well as sounding like that (and the video I posted above) has gone 'soft' then I think the CSL will be a little 'hard' for a daily driver. :lol:


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

Leg said:


> Not that its a problem if the new M3 is only 'as good' as the RS4. After all, the RS4 is a great car and at this level, the differences between the two will be unnoticeable to someone who thinks his TT is the dogs nuts eh!


Your TT will be a distant memory ten mins after you pick up the M3.



Leg said:


> Well, if a car that leaves a rubber trail when floored, power slides like that as well as sounding like that (and the video I posted above) has gone 'soft' then I think the CSL will be a little 'hard' for a daily driver. :lol:


100% agreement, perfect road car, and if you're a track demon then wait for the CSL to come.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/13 ... tml?al=124

Extract....



> Dropping the hammer from a standstill, we blasted to 60 mph in 4.4 seconds, 0.4 second quicker than the previous car, with the quarter-mile dispatched in 12.9 seconds at 111 mph, an even larger, 0.7-second gain. The surface wasnâ€™t ideal, however, and we expect even better numbers once we get one to our usual test track. Even so, thatâ€™s already enough to outrun the $69,785 Audi RS 4.


[smiley=devil.gif]


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

About time there was a great review, they're definitely fans of the ///M.


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## jonno (May 7, 2002)

I'm still completely unconvinced about the looks tbh - the older versions (e46, e36)were certainly more subtle, but it's ubiquitous, at least in e46 guise.
If list for the M3 is c. Â£50k give or take, and the M5 is c.Â£65k, (both without any options) who'd take the "slower" car? (And thats the M3, BTW)?
It will be interesting to see how soon the Touring version is launched - since the M5 has been out just a few months and I've still yet to see one.

I suspect strongly that they have designed it fully expecting to launch a CSL which will be rather more hard-core in a year or two.

NB not sure the CF roof has made it to UK spec. Std for CSL?


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

I wouldnt read too much into these reviews, after all, the E46 M3 is widely regarded as a class leading car, even now, yet some extracts from early reviews of the E46 M3 reveal a lot.....(posted on M3 Post and originally on GermanCarZone)....

*Auto Express, Previews 9/21/00 *

"...But we get the feeling BMW's M division could have gone one step further. In faster bends, there's a tad too much body roll, and a safe and secure nose-led stance which won't get you into trouble. The steering could also be slightly sharper and do with more feel, while the chassis would benefit from being set up to be even tauter and more agile to combat the inertia of this 1,570 kg machine. These are all 'ifs' and 'buts', though. BMW has sought to build the ultimate all-around super coupe, and to that extent it has succeeded, as the M3 is an eminently usable everyday car despite it's fantastic performance potential. What seems to be needed is some sort of stripped-out 'RS' or 'Club Sport' pack, like Porsche offers, with less toys, less weight and more focus to tighten everything up for serious enthusiasts who may like to take their pride and joy to the odd track day or two. ..."

E46 M3 steering was also "not as sharp" with "not enough feel", suspension allowed "too much body roll", chassis was "not set up well to combat the weight inertia", the car was built to be "all-rounder", a "sharper package for true enthusiasts" was needed.

*Here's TopGear, Oct 2000:*

"across rough roads this new car offers more compliancy than the last M3. Even over sharply-angled cambers, the steering resists being twitched all over the place. Yet that isn't to say that it's perfect. Although a smidge quicker than a standard 3-Series' set-up, perplexingly - at least with the optional wheels in place - there's a reduction in communication through the wheel."

*Car and Driver, Dec 2000*

"the new car keeps the rear end so well planted that only the front tires slide in the turns. Yep, it understeers -- badly. Considering how much we loved the old car's neutral handling -- you could call up under- or oversteer at will -- the realization of this trait almost brought tears to our eyes, but the fact remains that without some major driver heroics, the M3's rear end stays emphatically put. Understeer is a safe, if unexciting handling trait, and the new car masks its speed as well as the old."

*C&D from 2003:*

"A hormone-injected 3-series BMW sounds as if it would be a frisky, flingable sportster. In fact, the M3 feels heavy and reserved. Steering effort increases very little as you bite into a turn. Some drivers read that as 'effort too low.' All agree that communication is a bit aloof...This car is reliable for its understeer, and itâ€™s not at all twitchy as you probe for its limits. It always feels trusty, but hardly spirited."



jonno said:


> If list for the M3 is c. Â£50k give or take, and the M5 is c.Â£65k, (both without any options) who'd take the "slower" car? (And thats the M3, BTW)?


Err, the guy with Â£55K who wants a 4 seater coupe and cant afford Â£70K (assuming Â£5K options on each car) 4 door saloon probably. I mean, why didnt you buy a 535dMsport? Thats like asking everyone on here who bought a 3.2 TTC for Â£34/35K why they didnt get an RS4 when the simple answer is, its Â£15000 more expensive. :?

BTW CF roof is std unless you order a sunroof.


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

I was pretty shocked by the negative undercurrent in Steve Sutcliffe's Autocar review.

Softer than the old one, harder to slide, poor brakes (AGAIN!), poor steering feel, uninspiring interior are comments I specifically remember.

There is more to life than power. From what he said, I inferred that the new M3 is more like a 340i. In which case I'd take a 335i, bank the 15 grand and wait until they create a proper M3. :x

If these reported issues turn out to be true, this car is going to depreciate like a stone.

EDIT: Noted, Leg.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

Aside from all this conjecture we willknow in September when the demos arrive, that is the pivotal point and really, until people with orders down get to drive it, its all irrelivent. I mean what do journos know, they think a FWD 4 pot is a better car than a quattro V6 for goodness sake. :lol:

Mind you, if it isnt up to scratch Ill be taking suggestions for where to switch my budget to. Frankly, Im a bit flummoxed if this M3 isnt right. :?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Leg said:


> http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/13419/first-drive-2008-bmw-m3.html?al=124
> 
> Extract....
> 
> ...


That's funny & typical US BS. C&D have always been more BMW than Audi & i find it laughable that they can lop 1/2 second of the 0-60 times of all the other motoring press & BMW stats.

That said, they gave the same figure for the BMW M5 & that was laughed at. TBH i think when the dust settles the gap between both cars will be negligable & it really will come down to ones biaise towards track or road, so the better all-round day to day car will be the RS4 & the better track but is OK on the road car will be the M3.


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

I have had my eye on an M3 (esp one in white 8) ) but I have to admit to being influenced by the reviews. When I ordered my 997 a few years back, I eagerly waited for the reviews and they were all fantastic - it made the whole process of ordering, waiting and eventually taking delivery that bit more special. The fact that the reviews are good but not fantastic does put me off a bit. It was the same with the reviews of the S5 - I really wanted them to rave about the car, but they didn't.

I also take on board W7 PMC's point about useability. The M5 is obviously a superb car, but a lot of the power is not useable in day to day driving. I think it's becoming clear to me that the same is the case with the M3. I'm now wondering about the S5 or perhaps the RS5 (if it happens) as being an alternative and the ultimate in "useable" power.


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

Carlos said:


> depreciate like a stone.


I've just realised this is a dreadful mixed metaphor.

In the current climate, I thought I'd better apologise.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Carlos said:


> Carlos said:
> 
> 
> > depreciate like a stone.
> ...


_I ought to_


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

garyc said:


> Carlos said:
> 
> 
> > Carlos said:
> ...


No, I cant imagine that ever happening, you never apologise Gary and rightly so. Neither do I and I still have loads of friends, well ok not loads, a few, well ok not a few, one, well ok he isnt a friend, more someone who doesnt actually hate me, well I say doesnt hate me, more, hates me less than anyone else, oh ok I admit it, I made him up. Bugger, should have thought about that a bit more.


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

Leg said:


> I wouldnt read too much into these reviews, after all, the E46 M3 is widely regarded as a class leading car, even now, yet some extracts from early reviews of the E46 M3 reveal a lot.....(posted on M3 Post and originally on GermanCarZone)....


Very true. I haven't seen a good review of the Z4 M and based on these reviews I was opting for the 3.0si. Luckly enough I have decided to give the ///M a go and the car is bloody amazing.

You will find that the M3 is going to be a fantastic drive.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

tehdarkstar said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldnt read too much into these reviews, after all, the E46 M3 is widely regarded as a class leading car, even now, yet some extracts from early reviews of the E46 M3 reveal a lot.....(posted on M3 Post and originally on GermanCarZone)....
> ...


You switched to the Z4m Coupe? Thats what I wanted tbh but I need those back seats, love the styling on the Z4.


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

Leg said:


> You switched to the Z4m Coupe? Thats what I wanted tbh but I need those back seats, love the styling on the Z4.


Yep, HR Owen Chiswick was kind enough to refund my deposit on the 3.0si which went straight on a Z4M. Doing the finance papers tomorrow and hopefully collecting it the Saturday after next, allowing me time for VentureShield and to transfer my insurance, parking permit and CCharge registration.

The car looks stunning but it's the way it drives and the sound of that engine that really makes you wet your seats... And it is hard work too. Is not a car that flatters you: you have to learn it. After an S-Tronic TT that is really easy to trash around a track I'm feeling very excited about learning how to control the ///M.

TT is going to its new home tomorrow morning...


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

tehdarkstar said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> > You switched to the Z4m Coupe? Thats what I wanted tbh but I need those back seats, love the styling on the Z4.
> ...


Nice one, thats how im feeling about the M3. I know its going to be the most civilised M3 yet but still, 414bhp through the rear wheels will be entertaining and challenging while I can hit the 'civilised' button when on business. Seen as Ive had Audis for 5 years and the only RWD car ive driven in that time was my Westfield Im going to invest in some driver tuition I think.

I like the idea of learning to get more and more from the car rather than feeling I can handle anything it throws at me as I do with the TT.


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

tehdarkstar said:


> ...HR Owen Chiswick was kind enough to refund my deposit on the 3.0si which went straight on a Z4M...


That's a good result then eh? Did you order the black one you were thinking about?


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

tehdarkstar said:


> Yep, HR Owen Chiswick was kind enough to refund my deposit on the 3.0si which went straight on a Z4M


So what sort of discount are you getting on the Z4M if you don't mind me asking? I've been looking at the Approved Used on the BMW site and they don't seem to be that much discounted from new. :?


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

raven said:


> tehdarkstar said:
> 
> 
> > Yep, HR Owen Chiswick was kind enough to refund my deposit on the 3.0si which went straight on a Z4M
> ...


I'm buying an ex-demonstrator with 550 miles on the clock. It was offered for Â£39995 (it was over Â£46K list) and I negotiated it down to Â£36950. I stopped haggling because the car is spotless and was hardly ever taken out of the showroom, so I really wanted it and wasn't prepared to walk away, but willing you can get it for less.


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