# The resurrection of manual gearboxes..



## neilc (Aug 8, 2011)

I have read with pure unadulterated glee that the newly revised VW Polo GTI will be re-launched with a manual gearbox with the option of a 7 speed DSG !!

I am so happy I almost feel like self combusting with excitement. Now I don't particularly want a Polo GTI or intend to buy one but this news does represent a massive shift in the VAG groups thinking for sporty models and that pleases me no end.

I have watched with incredulity as the new RS4 was launched with DSG only and as a previous owner of two RS4 B7 manuals that news made me cringe as the gearbox was and is a delight on that car. Then you have the new Q3 RS and if you buy a new S4 these are both DSG only.

I don't have a problem with DSG but I do want the choice to decide and with all the criticism the VAG group gets off the motoring press and customers alike for a lack of interaction in it's sporty product , perhaps this is the answer ???

So is this the start of a rethink for sporty VAG product , have they realised that interaction is the key to enjoying your sports car ?

Here's hoping..


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## Blade_76 (Aug 11, 2004)

I wouldnt hold your breath, having chatted with a few audi techs at the Audi Sports day I attended, they said everything is heading to auto box :x

The sales guy was gob smacked that I didn't go S-tronic on my RS, I know how good it is, but I enjoy driving manual.


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## zltm089 (Jul 27, 2009)

Please help Save the Manual Gearbox!!!


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## abbotsmike (Jan 29, 2014)

Looks like the polo R and the Audi S1, which are hopefully going to be the top end performance versions (250hp, AWD and multi-link rear suspension) will be DSG gearboxes though. Maybe leaves space for SEAT to sneak in with an Ibiza Cupra R nutter edition, 300bhp, AWD and a manual?


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## neilc (Aug 8, 2011)

Do you know I would love to organise a petition on various forums and give it to the VAG group , after all forum members tend to be enthusiasts and of course that means potential buyers of their products..


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

neilc said:


> I have read with pure unadulterated glee that the newly revised VW Polo GTI will be re-launched with a manual gearbox with the option of a 7 speed DSG !!
> 
> I am so happy I almost feel like self combusting with excitement. Now I don't particularly want a Polo GTI or intend to buy one but this news does represent a massive shift in the VAG groups thinking for sporty models and that pleases me no end.
> 
> ...


I know what you mean Neil...Not to reiterate what has been said..But the manual is a thing of the past... :? With systems like the quite brilliant porsche pdk..etc...Its only a matter of time before these technologically state of the art millisecond changing boxes, will grace the slightly lower echelons of the automotive world. And as we cannot control this, lets embrace it..Not saying i will not miss the physical communication and feel the manual box gives, especially when its bolted to an awesome engine, i will. But if auto's will be as good as the PDK then bring it on..  Hey Neil you can always have a nice manual vintage audi in your garage.. :wink:

Damien.


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## neilc (Aug 8, 2011)

I hate to disagree with you Damien as you know we normally think pretty alike on car related subjects but I cannot accept that autos are the future of sporty cars or general cars actually.

I am not disputing the technical genius of PDK or DSG and they are great gearboxes but they do dilute the experience of driving and remove a really important layer of interaction between man/woman and car.

And be honest how many PDK or DSG owners really use the paddles ???? I bet that even on the latest GT3 owners will use the paddles for a few weeks then just stick in D and go..

And that is the crux of the issue , interaction removed = boredom.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

No one bemoans the loss of the choke lever, and the extra interaction that gave. We're happy for an ECU to manage everything the engine does, without the need for us adjusting valves and monitoring dials like a steam train driver.

It's a mistake to imagine future generations will see things the same as we do. There's nothing intrinsically 'fun' about clunking lumps of metal around with your hands and feet as you drive along, it's just something that's become associated with driving pleasure. You wouldn't enjoy going through that process every time you wanted to open the fridge, or switch on a light. Future generations will never get to make that association so they will never see it as a desirable thing. They won't be missing out on anything, because the enjoyment is in our heads, not in the gearbox or in the clutch.

When I look back at early cars with controls all over the place, I find it interesting, but I don't think "look at all that interaction, I wish my car was like that". But for all the changes and innovation that's happened to cars over the years, do enthusiasts enjoy driving them any less?


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

neilc said:


> I hate to disagree with you Damien as you know we normally think pretty alike on car related subjects but I cannot accept that autos are the future of sporty cars or general cars actually.
> 
> I am not disputing the technical genius of PDK or DSG and they are great gearboxes but they do dilute the experience of driving and remove a really important layer of interaction between man/woman and car.
> 
> ...


Neil me old bud..I am not disagreeing with you. :wink: I do think the manual brings you closer to the whole driving experience..And anyone cruising around 90% of the time in the new GT3, in auto mode is paramount to a crime..  Which as you say most owners will do.. Just that we do not have influence over what is happening...Evolution dictates its the future...  I am just trying to be positive. Neil our generation at least will always have a manual box at our disposal. And it is a shame some future great modern drivers cars, will not have manual as an option..Look at the clio RS, no manual option??crazy.

Damien.


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## neilc (Aug 8, 2011)

I disagree that auto boxes are the future and so do many other car makers , take Ford and it's ST range. The new Fiesta ST is rated as the best small hot hatch on the market and is currently outselling the Polo GTI by 10 to 1 and the Clio RS by 5 to 1 and it's a MANUAL ONLY !!!!!!!

Also consider the Mini , pretty much all manuals in fact the auto is seen as a no go area in the trade..And you cannot say that the Mini is anything but a huge success.

I seriously think the VAG group are getting it wrong with their sporty line up and as a long term VAG fanatic that pains me.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

I don't think you can predict the future based on the current line up alone. You need to look at trends, and the trend is an increase of automatic gearboxes particularly in high performance models (which, incidentally, are generally considered enthusiasts cars, so that's not seen as a barrier).

Manual gearboxes are cheaper, so will still be around for a long time, especially on less expensive cars. That doesn't change the fact that they're disappearing slowly.


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## zltm089 (Jul 27, 2009)

Spandex said:


> There's nothing intrinsically 'fun' about clunking lumps of metal around with your hands and feet as you drive along, it's just something that's become associated with driving pleasure.


Statement from GOD himself. :roll:


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

neilc said:


> I disagree that auto boxes are the future and so do many other car makers , take Ford and it's ST range. The new Fiesta ST is rated as the best small hot hatch on the market and is currently outselling the Polo GTI by 10 to 1 and the Clio RS by 5 to 1 and it's a MANUAL ONLY !!!!!!!
> 
> Also consider the Mini , pretty much all manuals in fact the auto is seen as a no go area in the trade..And you cannot say that the Mini is anything but a huge success.
> 
> I seriously think the VAG group are getting it wrong with their sporty line up and as a long term VAG fanatic that pains me.


Neil the car you mention is directed at a certain level of the market. People who buy fiesta st's are not really the target market for the whole auto/paddle aspect of driving. Specially bolted to a smaller engine.
The truth is sadly is that the higher end machinery is being ordered prominently with paddle shift. If the manufacturers were loosing sales hand over fist by not having a manual option, then they wouldn't have pulled it from the spec sheet.
Looks like most peeps and higher end enthusiasts in the world don't want a clunk shift anymore. Specially with the gearbox technology as good as it is now. I love beautiful engines as you well know Neil, but at the same time i am coming round to connecting paddle shift to them. More time to concentrate on driving, and reaction and setting the car up for corners on fast roads. And both hands on the wheel.  I do agree though that the vag brand need to be careful what they choose to spec with only paddle shift. Strange and sad to think the manual will be an old fashioned device in years to come. And the future generation of petrol heads will miss out on the purity of the manual box.

Damien.


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## neilc (Aug 8, 2011)

Hmmmmmm , if you really believe that the Fiesta ST isn't aimed at the paddle shift market then what on earth are Renaultsport playing at !! Its new Clio RS is aimed fairly and squarely at exactly the same market place. But with a cruel twist of fate Renault now finds it self as an also ran in the hot hatch scene competing dare I say it with the Polo Gti and Ibiza Cupra both paddle shift only ( for now at least ). Meanwhile the ST romps away as the best hot hatch on sale. Surely their can be no greater reason to offer the customer choice than sales figures ?? The ST easily outsells the once mighty Clio RS and that can't have been in the script for Renaultsport..


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

neilc said:


> Hmmmmmm , if you really believe that the Fiesta ST isn't aimed at the paddle shift market then what on earth are Renaultsport playing at !! Its new Clio RS is aimed fairly and squarely at exactly the same market place. But with a cruel twist of fate Renault now finds it self as an also ran in the hot hatch scene competing dare I say it with the Polo Gti and Ibiza Cupra both paddle shift only ( for now at least ). Meanwhile the ST romps away as the best hot hatch on sale. Surely their can be no greater reason to offer the customer choice than sales figures ?? The ST easily outsells the once mighty Clio RS and that can't have been in the script for Renaulsport..


The fiesta st market sector is not yet ready for paddle shift...I believe the clio RS would have been much more of a success for renault if they had had a manual version. And i think the very fact the ST is the top seller with a manual box speaks volumes.  This will change in time though, as the future generation see the top end cars with paddle shift..and want one themselves..

oh and....NEIL I AGREE WITH YOU 

Damien.


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## neilc (Aug 8, 2011)

More exciting news... The brand new Audi S1 with a manual box only !!!!

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/291760/audi_s1_quattro_shown_ahead_of_geneva.html


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