# Civil servants



## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

What, a pay freeze!? Aww boo hoo. What do you think the rest of us without cushy pensions have been going through for the last couple of years in the private sector? If we haven't lost a job, then we have had our pay frozen.

Get over it.


----------



## ScoobyTT (Aug 24, 2009)

A good point, well made. I bet the bast'ds go on strike though.


----------



## hooting_owl (Sep 3, 2008)

in fairness to the civil servants, the deal was always lower pay in return for job security and a good pension. but this isn't sustainable so they are gonna have to get with the real world. i understand their irritation, but they should shut the fook up and accept that they are not immune from the real world. life's a bitch and then you die.

the outgoing government seems to have taken great delight in bulking up the number of people on the government payroll what with departments for pen-pushing and red-tape-making. the public sector is way too bloated and the axe must fall. there is a lot of dead wood in the public sector.


----------



## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

I know a lot of civil servants who work very hard for a not great wage.


----------



## drjam (Apr 7, 2006)

wallsendmag said:


> I know a lot of civil servants who work very hard for a not great wage.


I know a lot of people in the private sector who work very hard for not a great wage too. 
(In fact the average private sector wage is now lower than in the public sector)
It'd be lovely if people in both sectors could carry on with job security and ever-increasing wages, but as has been said, it's just unrealistic to imagine one set of employees don't have to make the same kind of sacrifices that others have.


----------



## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

To be fair I know a lot of people in the public sector, specifically the NHS. They work extremely hard for relatively low wages, and they don't complain.

It's the folk on the TV from the department of jim jams that wound me up.


----------



## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

My favourite civl servant works for a very nasty part of the nasty part.


----------



## ScoobyTT (Aug 24, 2009)

Dash said:


> It's the folk on the TV from the department of jim jams that wound me up.


There's a government department for pyjamas?! That's it! This time the EU has gone TOO FUCKING FAR! :lol:


----------



## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

WOW im shocked!!!!  

im a nurse... working 13hr shifts and get paid PENNIES for what i do!

people working in public services have to deal with soooo much shit from the public and especially in the NHS see some horrid things... work long long hours and really dont get paid a lot! (compaired to some people in the private sector)

annnd so what we get a good pension..dont we deserve it? (but to be honest id rather be earning more now than when im like 75 or what ever the retirement age is going up to...)

annnnnd the "pay freeze" isnt just going to stop pay rises (that we get each year for being here so long.. its going to mean that whilst the inflation rate rises...our wages dont. 
everyone knows that the pay rises aint realllly pay rises they just the 3% or aso that inflation goes... so in fairness we will be getting a pay CUT every year.....

im still shocked at the first comment tho. 
people rely every single day on public service workers..every second of every day...

rant over


----------



## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

ScoobyTT said:


> A good point, well made. I bet the bast'ds go on strike though.


the funny thing is ... people in the police , nhs and firebrigade wont......

you wont ever find a nurse going on strike because the majority do thier job for love not money..


----------



## OeTT (Nov 10, 2007)

As a civil servant there really is only one point I'd like to make. I wish the media would explain properly what Final Salary Pension means. Everyone I talk to thinks it means we retire on full pay, well does it bollux. It means that the final salary is multiplied by 1/80th for every year you have served. So the reward for 40 years is half your salary. I agree that is still bloody marvelous, but we do pay in every month and it's far less than the media make out.
Everyone is in the poo, huge numbers of civil servants will lose their jobs, those lucky to keep theirs will pay more for their pensions and get no pay rise while the bastards that got us in this mess sit back, draw large salaries, bonuses, expenses and whatever else they can get away with and take no responsibility for the shambles whatsoever.
Whilst public and private sectors bitch and squabble, the true villans get off scot free.

Thank you for listening [smiley=bomb.gif]


----------



## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

Having worked in the private sector since leaving school in 1979, I have worked on low pay struggled to pay a mortgage, suffered 2 years out of work in the recession of 91/92 and have sweet FA pension so have an empathy with the OP

It is all to easy to have a knock at the public sector, there are parts of this sector which are a necessity and it can be argued are hard done by (front line nurses, police etc)

However there is far too much wastage in the public sector, too much unnecessary bureaucracy, quangos, committees, red tape paperwork and various other bullshit which is totally unnecessary. The public sector can afford to throw millions into systems (computer etc) which in the private sector would cost considerably less.

Therefore in my opinion this government should be getting rid of the bureaucrats, reducing red tape.

Also there is too much emphasis put on University education, producing graduates of useless subjects who believe they will earn megabucks because of their petty degree, when in reality they are under-achievers who should have taken up vocational apprenticeships.


----------



## Wolfsburger (Oct 21, 2002)

k10mbd said:


> ScoobyTT said:
> 
> 
> > A good point, well made. I bet the bast'ds go on strike though.
> ...


The Police can`t strike as far as I`m aware. The Fire Brigade can however and will, at some point. I know because I had to stand in for them on OP FRESCO a few years ago.


----------



## hooting_owl (Sep 3, 2008)

rather than cut pay for the majority of civil servants earning less than 30K, they should start by getting rid of all the consultants that are riding the government gravy train.
and then what about those follies of IT projects? i have lost count but the consulting firms always come out loaded with taxpayers dosh.

as for redundancies, they should start at the top and prune hard. very hard. if these top civil servants are so good at their jobs then they have nothing to worry about as they will be snapped up by the private sector.

sadly the culture of this country has swung towards blame and claim. hence there is now a department for arse covering in every area of the civil service.


----------



## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

hooting_owl said:


> rather than cut pay for the majority of civil servants earning less than 30K, they should start by getting rid of all the consultants that are riding the government gravy train.
> and then what about those follies of IT projects? i have lost count but the consulting firms always come out loaded with taxpayers dosh.
> 
> as for redundancies, they should start at the top and prune hard. very hard. if these top civil servants are so good at their jobs then they have nothing to worry about as they will be snapped up by the private sector.
> ...


Finally some sensible comments


----------



## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

Firstly I think it's unfair to say the private sector pays crap..my parents both work in the private sector and my partners and they all earn 40-53k .... And have worked damn hard for it! 
Secondly I totally agree that it's the much higher earning people of the public sector that need to be hit the hardest....but (most of them) we need...we need all the doctors and consultants we need managers...people need to be managed!

Personally i honk cut the Mp's pay!! See if any actually stick around for wanting to do good for our country images of just the money!!!!


----------



## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Front line staff are the most critical, and of course you need a level of management to organise it all, but even in the "lean private sector" there is management bloat.

But there is far more to the civil service than NHS, Police and Firemen.

People such as my council's director for development who has a 7 year contract paying over £300K a year. That's 15 workers earning £20K a year.


----------



## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Dash said:


> That's 15 workers earning £20K a year.


Which I suggest would be the pay of your avverage civil servant.


----------



## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

Exactly you average civil servant our looking at 20-30k

And yeah there are more to them than nhs police etc but my point is the first comment "pay freeze-boo hoo! " didn't really take into consideration some public sector jobs..like nurses and police!


----------



## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

A lot of the public sector is under paid, but inflation pay-rises will not address this. The fact was the fuss kicked up on the news about pay-freezes when thousands have completely lost their job in the private sector and the remaining have had pay freezes too.

Everybody is in the shit, nobody likes it.


----------



## rabTT (Nov 14, 2006)

Please don't bring "cushy" pensions into this either! :x How is a civil servants pension cushy when we have to pay for it all ourselves?! Generally the private sector will meet like for like an employees contributions but not for us that cushy deal.

I currently have to pay *11%* for the privilege of retiring on a 'decent' pension but yet the Govt now are saying they want me to pay more next year for the same return to boost the pot because they f**ked up! And they want me to work longer with no pensionable gain .. go figure!


----------



## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

rabTT said:


> Please don't bring "cushy" pensions into this either! :x How is a civil servants pension cushy when we have to pay for it all ourselves?! Generally the private sector will meet like for like an employees contributions but not for us that cushy deal.
> 
> I currently have to pay *11%* for the privilege of retiring on a 'decent' pension but yet the Govt now are saying they want me to pay more next year for the same return to boost the pot because they f**ked up! And they want me to work longer with no pensionable gain .. go figure!


agreed!


----------



## jammyd (Oct 11, 2008)

hooting_owl said:


> rather than cut pay for the majority of civil servants earning less than 30K, they should start by getting rid of all the consultants that are riding the government gravy train.
> and then what about those follies of IT projects? i have lost count but the consulting firms always come out loaded with taxpayers dosh.


I am one of those consultants  in the last 2 years I have not had a pay rise ( due to economic conditions)... I work in a chain of supply to deliver efficient services to local government ( your local council) so that they can provide services quicker and faster. The software we design improves the way your interactions with your council happens, be it, benefits, planning, environmental health or what ever...

Yes we make profits, but these go to the "long suffering shareholders" as our CEO put it. not into the pockets of the staff... so first and foremost we should be attacking the bankers and share investors which force companies like our's to push push push on profit margins... if we lost 20% (2.5p) off our share price the company would go under, not because we are not doing our jobs or supplying services which councils need, but because someone decided to sell loads of shares!

I just wish I walked away with a lot of dosh...


----------



## garvin (May 7, 2002)

rabTT said:


> Please don't bring "cushy" pensions into this either! :x How is a civil servants pension cushy when we have to pay for it all ourselves?! Generally the private sector will meet like for like an employees contributions but not for us that cushy deal.
> 
> I currently have to pay *11%* for the privilege of retiring on a 'decent' pension but yet the Govt now are saying they want me to pay more next year for the same return to boost the pot because they f**ked up! And they want me to work longer with no pensionable gain .. go figure!


That's easy to figure. There is currently a massive black hole in the public sector pension arrangements i.e. they cannot afford to pay out the pensions currently 'on offer'. Therefore without an increase in contributions the government will have to fork out the necessary to fill the hole which effectively means that a lot of private sector workers will be subsidising public sector pensions through the tax they pay when their own final salary schemes have been ended. BTW, that's a lot of private sector employees who have had no pay rises, or even pay cuts, over the last couple of years.


----------



## rabTT (Nov 14, 2006)

I know how it works, it's a figure of speech - thanks. This IS my point .. we're all paying for the inadequacies of a dippy government. Instead of investing the contributions, it just sat festering and, if the theories are to be believed, it was also dipped into to help bolster a haemoeraging NHS and education system. Not their fault I may add but once again, the government of the time!


----------



## robp (Apr 14, 2010)

I've worked as a Civil Servant for 6 years in the MoD, testing and integrating Avionic systems on Harrier and Jaguar aircraft. Many may have seen this as unimportant, but the pilots don't. And they and their planes cost big money. I decided to leave and go back into 'normal' work just before it was announced that my old MoD section was going to be privatised. Old friends there are still on crap pay and most hate it. The old 'fighting spirit' has gone. They are no longer working for Queen & country but for shareholders. It

Me? I'm happy with the change I made. I wouldn't be driving a TT if I had stayed in Civil Service. However my current sector has been hit hard by the recession and outsourcing. Once Government jobs are cut, we'll all be applying for private sector jobs with a few hundred extra applicants as I'm already experiencing.

The real culprits are the banks....the amount of money they spend on 'expenses' has to be seen to be believed. Strip club Sir? Yeah, we'll just expense it!


----------

