# Flutter on boost after fitting cone filter



## SeanTTS (Nov 8, 2015)

Just fitted a cone filter (ramair) and I have noticed on WOT sometimes I get a flutter noise on boost? Has anyone else had this?
Running stage 1 revo engine software and stage 2 dsg also revo


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## s_robinson91 (Jun 9, 2012)

I get it on mine. I'm also running Ramair. Never got it before stage 1. Guy who did my remap said its normal when running the higher boost.


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## andez1781 (May 27, 2015)

You say flutter on boost? Is it directly after you lift off the power . to me when you say turbo flutter that to me means that your turbo is back spooling (although it sounds cool )which is not good . can you post a clip off the sound at all ? .


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## Nathanho123 (Jul 25, 2012)

its just the noise of the turbo echoing out through the cone filter .... you wouldn't have heard it with the enclosed airbox on it


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## jocco (Apr 6, 2015)

Nathanho123 said:


> its just the noise of the turbo echoing out through the cone filter .... you wouldn't have heard it with the enclosed airbox on it


You are right, every turbo sound gets amplified with an aftermarket air-filter.
But its still not a good thing to get turbo flutter.

I had the same issue on my Leon FR with Revo stage1 and BSH true seal intake.
Although it didnt do it all the time. And when there was no turbo flutter the car felt a little underpower.

I'm running the same intake on my stock TT and get no flutter right now.
Will see when I get it remapped if there will be some flutter.

I would check the DV first.


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## azbaz125 (Oct 30, 2014)

I've got after market air intake and stage 1 get flutters a lot sound soo epic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## andez1781 (May 27, 2015)

azbaz125 said:


> I've got after market air intake and stage 1 get flutters a lot sound soo epic
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Does sound cool but won't be cool when your bearings fail  .


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## s_robinson91 (Jun 9, 2012)

my cars doesn't do it when I properly planting it only at about 3/4 throttle and only between about 3k and 5k revs.

don't have a vid doing it just one flooring it.


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## Templar (Mar 9, 2012)

Have you changed or upgraded your DV valve yet...These can struggle with increased boost, also the springs are a little weak on the early versions and the diaphragm can leak/split.


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## SeanTTS (Nov 8, 2015)

I have the type D valve (new) and the flutter only occurs on full chat, spoke with revo and they said its compressor surge caused by the engine not being able to take in as much air pressure than the turbo can produce causing the flutter noise on boost. Said its perfectly safe and I'm only hearing it now due to having a cone filter


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## andez1781 (May 27, 2015)

SeanTTS said:


> I have the type D valve (new) and the flutter only occurs on full chat, spoke with revo and they said its compressor surge caused by the engine not being able to take in as much air pressure than the turbo can produce causing the flutter noise on boost. Said its perfectly safe and I'm only hearing it now due to having a cone filter


Hmmmm!?


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## BlueMagic (Feb 14, 2015)

That's B'S, the noise you hear is all the air in your system slamming into the blades of your turbo when you step of the gas.

Flutter, pigeon noises, call out what you want, it is what it is. It's caused by all the air that the car was sucking in when the throttle was open now being trapped in the system, it cannot escape through the diverter valve so it's pushed back against the blades of your turbo and stalks the spin of the compressor wheel.

It does sound cool, it can be bad for the bearings and is normally caused by greater levels of air in the system than the system was designed for, normally from running higher levels of boost. All cars will suffer from this a little but run more boost and it becomes more pronounced. This is why big power cars run external waste gates and huge DVs.

Now your air box is no longer masking the sound you can hear it clearly.


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## SeanTTS (Nov 8, 2015)

Don't think you guys are understanding what I'm saying.... The noise happens when accelerating not when coming off the throttle, I've had several turbo cars before and I have experienced waste Gate noise turkey noise etc but never whilst on boost


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## BlueMagic (Feb 14, 2015)

SeanTTS said:


> Don't think you guys are understanding what I'm saying.... The noise happens when accelerating not when coming off the throttle, I've had several turbo cars before and I have experienced waste Gate noise turkey noise etc but never whilst on boost


Then I would say it's the DV opening up under boost, unless you have a crack in the intercooler that's opening up under pressure.

There's no way the system should be letting air out under acceleration.


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## andez1781 (May 27, 2015)

SeanTTS said:


> Don't think you guys are understanding what I'm saying.... The noise happens when accelerating not when coming off the throttle, I've had several turbo cars before and I have experienced waste Gate noise turkey noise etc but never whilst on boost


I get what your saying , that is why I asked if you ment flutter on or off the power . dv? but either way with you saying that revo rep says that it's making more boost than the engine can swallow screams that it's still causing some form of stall in the turbine . that added build up of air has to stop somewhere should the exhaust Wastegate not be letting off that excess pressure. possibly the downside to premade maps , cause no two cars are identical there is always some difference to a degree . although I could also be completely wrong and love to be corrected as I am always willing to learn (the reason for joining the forums to learn off of others experience) ! After all they have been in the business for awhile and have a lot of research I would suppose . do they guarantee there work against failure of parts which would be awesome
But I doubt it . there will probably always be some get out as with any company . and finally if it is , and hopefully it is .(because after all without seeing map and hearing runs nobody can say yey or nay , its all guess work .) That it is all good and you have an awesome sounding induction and many boost filled miles . ether way happy motoring buddy :mrgreen: .


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## InitialD (Mar 20, 2015)

I've been wonder about this fluttering!!

I've just gone Apr stage 2+ and I'm running a Neuspeed induction and a gfb dv+, I get what sounds like fluttering when letting off under boost..

Anything I an do?


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## andez1781 (May 27, 2015)

tmason said:


> I've been wonder about this fluttering!!
> 
> I've just gone Apr stage 2+ and I'm running a Neuspeed induction and a gfb dv+, I get what sounds like fluttering when letting off under boost..
> 
> Anything I an do?


I would say you need to find away of losing that extra pressure gfb also have a dv that both dumps and recirculates that could help or possibly bigger piping and intercooler or manual boost controller to back it off just enough to stop it . you should speak to a local tuning company that have a rolling road for a fun day out to see what your pushing and views and solutions as there is many ways . best of luck .


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## jocco (Apr 6, 2015)

tmason said:


> I've been wonder about this fluttering!!
> 
> I've just gone Apr stage 2+ and I'm running a Neuspeed induction and a gfb dv+, I get what sounds like fluttering when letting off under boost..
> 
> Anything I an do?


I wouldn't bother doing anything if you hear flutter when off the throttle. Its normal and as many said before the flutter is amplified through the induction air filter.

As the OP said, he has a problem where he hears fluttering while on throttle and on boost.
Thats something to do with the DV, he is probable loosing a little boost because of it.


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## andez1781 (May 27, 2015)

jocco said:


> tmason said:
> 
> 
> > I've been wonder about this fluttering!!
> ...


Sorry jocco but that is just wrong, flutter when you lift off IS bad ask any turbo specialist or do some research I have not ever heard of it being OK . the only time that doesn't matter is on some silly aftermarket dv valves that purposely do that through ball bearing set ups that no one should ever buy . but if you can prove me otherwise I will gladly take it back as I am happy to learn . all the best bud .


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## SeanTTS (Nov 8, 2015)

Thanks for the many replies guys I shall order a new dv and go from there


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## Templar (Mar 9, 2012)

Might be a good idea to contact a reputable tuning company for some advice and maybe get it on the rollers/dyno and see if it can be replicated there...if you do have a problem with your wastegate, Dv or your intercooler ect they will be able to advise accordingly because describing noises via text is difficult and an accurate solution first off will be impossible.
Hence one of the reasons I'm not keen on plug and play maps...having it all checked out/tweaked/set up whatever on the rollers after would normally spot this and show up and problems.


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## jocco (Apr 6, 2015)

andez1781 said:


> jocco said:
> 
> 
> > tmason said:
> ...


I cant prove you wrong, but had this same discussion on the Megane sport forum.
Some Megane 225 owners (including myself) run there turbos with no DV just to get that flutter, cause on the megane it sounded nice. I run it like that with a stage1 remap for about 6 months with no issues.
And in theory it does sound as if its very bad for any turbo, but no one managed to give proof that any stock megane turbo failed because of turbo flutter.

I believe the K03 turbo is the same size as the Mitsubishi one on the Megane, so these small turbos shouldn't see any damage from some turbo flutter.

As I said I cant back it up with facts, just some experience from my previous car.


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## poder (Mar 18, 2015)

I also get this flutter at low speed when the tires can't get enough grip and the anti-spin kics in - is that bad or just the DV letting air out then..?


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## BlueMagic (Feb 14, 2015)

That just goes to show how little people know, running cars without a DV is a one way ticket to turbo failure. Some race cars run with no DV but that's because they'll replace the turbo regularly.

Running with no DV or a DV not fit for purpose will put more stress on the turbo, more stress equals more wear, equals turbo will fail sooner. . . End of.


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## andez1781 (May 27, 2015)

BlueMagic said:


> That just goes to show how little people know, running cars without a DV is a one way ticket to turbo failure. Some race cars run with no DV but that's because they'll replace the turbo regularly.
> 
> Running with no DV or a DV not fit for purpose will put more stress on the turbo, more stress equals more wear, equals turbo will fail sooner. . . End of.


+1


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## andez1781 (May 27, 2015)

poder said:


> I also get this flutter at low speed when the tires can't get enough grip and the anti-spin kics in - is that bad or just the DV letting air out then..?


Can't really say without hearing and knowing more , could just be esp letting off power rapidly to kill the spin bud.


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## jocco (Apr 6, 2015)

BlueMagic said:


> That just goes to show how little people know, running cars without a DV is a one way ticket to turbo failure. Some race cars run with no DV but that's because they'll replace the turbo regularly.
> 
> Running with no DV or a DV not fit for purpose will put more stress on the turbo, more stress equals more wear, equals turbo will fail sooner. . . End of.


If I run my car with no DV doesn't mean I didn't know what I was doing and what the long run outcome should be for the turbo.

I did my research and then I decided to try it.

And guess what, nothing related to turbo or engine failed. Nor did any megane owner had turbo failure.

Just to be clear I'm not suggesting that anyone should run their turbo car with no DV.

I'm just saying that sometimes you need to take a risk and try different thing, or at least try to think differently.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## InitialD (Mar 20, 2015)

I'm still unsure guys, my stage 2+ TTS has a gfb dv+ but it doesn't make the 'psss' noise when I let off the throttle under boost. Sounds like it echos through the induction (flutter?) is this ok?


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## BlueMagic (Feb 14, 2015)

tmason said:


> I'm still unsure guys, my stage 2+ TTS has a gfb dv+ but it doesn't make the 'psss' noise when I let off the throttle under boost. Sounds like it echos through the induction (flutter?) is this ok?


This could be because due to a few reasons . . .

1) Your GFB DV could be a recirculating one, if you hear the flutter some of that may be leaking through the induction kit (there will always be just a little noise) but if its strong/loud, I think the springs are adjustable . . . so you may need to adjust the spring

2) I cannot be sure without knowing which model you have but some DVs can split the discharge, so some air goes back into the system (recirculating) and some of the air is VTA Vented To Atmosphere.

You need to remember that adding a VTA psssst DV into the system will expel air out of the system that the ECU may well think it still in the system, causing the ECY to add more fuel accordingly (this is called over fueling) it really depends on the cars parameters and how much air is expelled from the system - some cars systems can cope with a VTA DV being added systems better than others (some will require a remap to allow the DV to work efficiently).

Hope this helps


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## andez1781 (May 27, 2015)

BlueMagic said:


> tmason said:
> 
> 
> > I'm still unsure guys, my stage 2+ TTS has a gfb dv+ but it doesn't make the 'psss' noise when I let off the throttle under boost. Sounds like it echos through the induction (flutter?) is this ok?
> ...


Am sure the dv+ is a resurc using the existing solenoid just replacing the piston part for better reliability.


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## andez1781 (May 27, 2015)

jocco said:


> BlueMagic said:
> 
> 
> > That just goes to show how little people know, running cars without a DV is a one way ticket to turbo failure. Some race cars run with no DV but that's because they'll replace the turbo regularly.
> ...


Your completely rite , I know a few ppl that have done this for that exact reason , id love to make that happen to . but all these ppl that do it know the risks (well at least I hope they know the risks) . but because of these risks is exactly the reason why I wont do it can't imagine the damage it could potentially do . but if I weren't bothered I would do it for chuckles. But I definitely wouldn't want to be the next owner of one of those cars


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## andez1781 (May 27, 2015)

tmason said:


> I'm still unsure guys, my stage 2+ TTS has a gfb dv+ but it doesn't make the 'psss' noise when I let off the throttle under boost. Sounds like it echos through the induction (flutter?) is this ok?


Like was said before best bet , book into a rolling road for giggles and ask tuners opinion thats the best way to find out , because anyone here can't really truly help without seeing or hearing the motor


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## InitialD (Mar 20, 2015)

BlueMagic said:


> tmason said:
> 
> 
> > I'm still unsure guys, my stage 2+ TTS has a gfb dv+ but it doesn't make the 'psss' noise when I let off the throttle under boost. Sounds like it echos through the induction (flutter?) is this ok?
> ...


Thanks 

I'm pretty sure it's a recirculating dv and is just a little noise though the induction. It was rolling roaded at amd tuners and they fitted the dv. It actually gave an extra 3/4hp on the dyno after it was fitted.


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## InitialD (Mar 20, 2015)

BlueMagic said:


> tmason said:
> 
> 
> > I'm still unsure guys, my stage 2+ TTS has a gfb dv+ but it doesn't make the 'psss' noise when I let off the throttle under boost. Sounds like it echos through the induction (flutter?) is this ok?
> ...


Thanks 

I'm pretty sure it's a recirculating dv and is just a little noise though the induction. It was rolling roaded at amd tuners and they fitted the dv. It actually gave an extra 3/4hp on the dyno after it was fitted.


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## BlueMagic (Feb 14, 2015)

tmason said:


> I'm pretty sure it's a recirculating dv and is just a little noise though the induction. It was rolling roaded at amd tuners and they fitted the dv. It actually gave an extra 3/4hp on the dyno after it was fitted.


Did they map the car when fitting the DV? If they did, they should have mapped the DV into the system and adjusted the AFR to compensate.

I've never heard of a DV increasing HP unless the old one was leaking under boost and that would mean you were down on power.


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## InitialD (Mar 20, 2015)

BlueMagic said:


> tmason said:
> 
> 
> > I'm pretty sure it's a recirculating dv and is just a little noise though the induction. It was rolling roaded at amd tuners and they fitted the dv. It actually gave an extra 3/4hp on the dyno after it was fitted.
> ...


It was an Apr map not their own. We thought it might have had a leak originally.


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