# Have u got an MBA?



## pumaro (Apr 17, 2003)

I am interested in finding out what difference it will make to someone's career and wether it is really worth the vast sum of money all the schools are demanding.

Discuss or leave a comment.


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## Dubcat (Jun 10, 2002)

Been looking in to it myself. Biggest single factor with regards to the value of your MBA is the school you do it at. Seems to me that London Business School is the place to be. If you want to do an executive MBA where you do not have to actually go in to school (the executive LBA one STILL requires you to dedicate 40 full days a year to being in school) then Warwick is a good school.

Have you seen the FT rankings? If you can afford it the BEST place to do your MBA is probably the US.

hope that helps,

W.


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## Dr_Parmar (May 10, 2002)

my sister is planning to do hers at Boston Univ..

its the way to go if you wanna climb the ranks.... so my friend tells me... and hes one of the european directors for Credit Suisse 8)


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## Dubcat (Jun 10, 2002)

She is going to BU? I lived in Boston for 3 years - AWESOME place - she is going to love it  Of course it would have been better if she went to either of the schools down the road (Harvard business school or the sloane school of management at MIT) - 

W.


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## Dr_Parmar (May 10, 2002)

yup shes hoping to goto BU, she's faffing around at the moment trying to get the admission essay done..

 i loove boston


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

MIT rox - I know a couple of guys from there - pure class. To be plain and straight to the point


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Yes, had one for 10 years. Not that valuable (although it helps when trying to get interviews after you have been binned ), unless you don't have a first degree and you particularly want to display some aptitude for learing/assimilating info.

They were all the rage through the 80s and 90s - however now they may be seen as too comon, too easy and most importantly too _general_ to be really useful. Basically every third rate HE establishment now offers an MBA course as they attract money and are profitable to run, but the popularity devalues them so they are a victim of their own success. My employer sees them as too easy and therefore just another Higher Qualification. Quite rightly it is seen as limited by just how much one can really learn in 5 different disciplines from zero in one year (marketing, HR, finance, logistics/operations, strategic planning, information systems etc.) to make a real difference in your performance.

The clue is in the title _Business Administration_, and that's what they are; generalist business admin qualifications. The smart money these days is on a specilaist Masters Degree (MA) from a good Uni or business school rather than an MBA. It's all about focus.

If you are into marketing, do a Marketing Masters; IS, do an IS Masters etc, Finance, do a Financial Management Masters etc. You will get far more out of studying one area in depth.

Were you to meet some of the half wits that I have worked with that also hold an MBA, you'd see how they are very much 'yesterdays IN business qualification'.

They are also expensive (profitable) so unless you can see a definate advantage, or have been specifically told by your employer to do one (self-employed folk are usually smarter and don't have the luxury of a year off to indulge their Ivy League fantasies  ) I'd think again.

The days of an MBA being a passport to a 'seat on the board', keys to exec bogs etc, are well and truely over.

My 10p.


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## paulatt (Oct 28, 2002)

> The smart money these days is on a specilaist Masters Degree (MA) from a good Uni or business school rather than an MBA.
> 
> Â You will get far more out of studying one area in depth.


You are quite right. A further degree in a specialised area is much more valuable. All Universities offer an increasingly wide range of MSc and MA courses, both full time and part time. You can even define your particular area of interest for your thesis. 
Have a professional interest in further degrees as an academic so I often see these students walk into good jobs that they would not have got with just an ordinary degree or something as broad as an MBA.
Prof Paula


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## bash-the-monkey (Jun 5, 2002)

What about something like a Fellowship (and I don't mean Lord of the Rings type)? My missus is just about to complete her's in August and is now looking/applying for jobs with nearly twice the salary she was on before ;D

Not bad for a years work.

Bash - hoping to retire and bash the monkey fulltime at home
www.bashthemonkey.com


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> You are quite right. A further degree in a specialised area is much more valuable. All Universities offer an increasingly wide range of MSc and MA courses, both full time and part time. You can even define your particular area of interest for your thesis.
> Have a professional interest in further degrees as an academic so I often see these students walk into good jobs that they would not have got with just an ordinary degree or something as broad as an MBA.
> Prof Paula


I forgot MPhils and Mscs :-[ You are quite right in your analagy.


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## r1 (Oct 31, 2002)

> I forgot MPhils and Mscs :-[ Â You are quite right in your analagy.


And MEngs...


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## garvin (May 7, 2002)

> The days of an MBA being a passport to a 'seat on the board', keys to exec bogs etc, are well and truely over.


Absolutely spot on. 10 to 15 years ago companies adopted the .com culture towards MBAs and rapidly promoted and paid extraordinary premiums to those who had one. Unfortunately all this did was rapidly demonstrate the Peter Principle and how - busiuness performance did not improve but the salary bill did! Over the last few years companies have been wondering how to get rid of all the expensive dead wood they have now accumulated!


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> And MEngs...


doh :-[


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## bluettone (Feb 26, 2003)

I have an MBA from (whisper it) the Open University. I think the value comes from the relevance of the course content to your present and future career, not the letters after your name or the possiblility of earning more money because of it.

My MBA was tightly focussed on Technology Management and has included modules on operational and strategic use of technology, as well as project management and service company management.

I can honestly say that over 50% of what I learned has been directly useful in my work, and in fact influenced my decision to set up my own company.

Oh, and the OU is cheap (relatively). OK, so it doesn't have the kudos of Warwick or Cranfield, but the quality of the teaching materials and support was fantastic.

I would say if you see it as a CV Enhancer only, you should not do it. It demands a considerable amount of effort, and you will probably not be motivated for th 'right' reasons. However, if you do it to in order to improve your ability to do better work, then you will get much more out of it.

In my humble opinion of course.

Marco


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

Cannot really add much to what has already been said, but generally employers would rather a year's experience than a year getting a qualification that nobody seems to fail.

I have friends who have done one when their career was going nowhere, and it has helped but equally I know others who have done so and have then had huge problems getting a job, so my view is that it's generally not worth the expense.

Also worth bearing in mind that it has been said that MBAs stand for Means Bugger All. :-/


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

I have only got 7 CSE's (I didn't stay on at school to take GCE's) so I can't help - sorry :-[

Graham


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## pumaro (Apr 17, 2003)

I thank you all very much for your input and words of reason. I will do one once I get my GMAT scores. Where ? I do not know but it all depends on the GMAT score, as I have recently discovered that you can get some funding with multinational companies.

Reason:

I am in a dead end position and as I have been contracting for the best part of 3 years, and no one will employ me F/T due to my contract stints.

IT cerifications are a dime a dozen and you limit your prospects by only going down one route. Not only do you have to re-certify every few years they are not as valuable as they used to be and only make a difference if the company you work for is a technology partner.

I would like to run my own enterprise within the next 5 years and feel that opportunities are slowly running out.

My Degree has not helped at all and I could not afford a masters when students loan were knoking at my door for there money back.

It might mean bugger all but at least I stand a good chance of getting some sort of career development and better money in the long term.

I will continue to look on this spread for further comments and views on this topic. Again thanks and keep them coming.


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## head_ed (Dec 10, 2002)

I start my MA in September...Business and Enterprise Development! I did try to find one with a longer name but this was the best I could find! Â 

But I agree with Gary on this one, I think a good MA is better these days unless you want to be a marketing consultant then an MBA will do nicely! ;D

PJ


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> I start my MA in September...Business and Enterprise Development! I did try to find one with a longer name but this was the best I could find! Â
> 
> But I agree with Gary on this one, I think a good MA is better these days unless you want to be a marketing consultant then an MBA will do nicely! ;D
> 
> PJ


Wot no 'Strategic' in the title? Must be dodgy. 

Actually if you want to be a Marketing Consultant, then you do worse than do the CIM exams and an MA in Marketing (for which you can get exemptions) rather than an MBA.

Good luck with your course Pauls, they can actually be a lot of fun. Not in the same way that vodka-binging and lavish expensed dinners can be fun, but still enjoyble none-the-less.


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## pumaro (Apr 17, 2003)

I have decided to do an MBA in this september to improve my job prospects and salary so looks like the TT is gonna go. I will get a sensible cheap polo for a year to get by on  .

I will be back offcourse :wink:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

I have an MBNA credit card, if that helps?


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> I have an MBNA credit card, if that helps?


I hope you made sure that your CV lists this as well. 

MBA is my dream qualification that I would like to obtain one day. But I do hope that my employer will be paying for it and not myself.

Also how many qualifications can you write in your business card? It is getting silly these days listing all my qualifications: BEng, MSC, CEng, MIEE, ACIM.


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## LeeS3 (Mar 24, 2004)

Well I am just finishing up at Durham Uni Business school for the 2003 ft MBA class.

So I can add a few comments.

First and foremost the MBA is a non-specialist qualification. You want to be a scientist go do a ma or msc. Graduates of MBA are essentially jack of all trades and masters of none. The MBA is not about specialisation.

But having worked as a MC for one of the big 4 for the last 5 years, I decided that specialisation wasn't the route for me. Theferfore binned the professional exams and did an MBA.

MBA are made up of two kinds of people - those with no idea of business or entrepaneurs. I was the latter, having already completed an economics degree and professional exams in finance.

Even so think long and hard before doing one. They are extremely expensive. 1 years no earning plus 20,000 fees plus living expenses.

Other major factor - the other students. These people are you future contacts - so get known, be well liked and stay in touch. The make up of the student faculty is very important. For me an international mix and females was a priority. I've never had so holidays or skiing trips in 12 mths.

I think first and foremost the MBA should make sense to you and employers. If you can add 5yrs plus in a good career with a decent firm the MBA can transform your employment prospect. On the other hand I currently study with a lawyer/barrister who will have to scratch the MBA of most of his CV applications.

Other good points. LSE LBS Cranfield etc, etc are all down on applications and will take 'anyone'. And you need a school as such.


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## jimbott (Jul 12, 2004)

As someone who is only surfing this forum as a displacement activity from writing his MBA dissertation, I would say go for it!

As others have already said, make sure you use one of the top universities, the ratings do seem to count....

It is a big commitment in terms of cash and time. I've been doing an executive MBA over three years and would refute the claims that no-one fails, I've watched them fall.....

As to the end value, I've made some really good friends, picked up a new job with a seat on the board, increased my salary and now got a 225TTR as a company car.....

I may be biased.....


Jimbott


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

vlastan said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > I have an MBNA credit card, if that helps?
> ...


Only insecure people need to put their qualifications on a card. :wink:


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

garyc said:


> vlastan said:
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> > jampott said:
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He also forgot TOSA... :wink:


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

I have three friends who have done this in the last few years, two at Edinburgh, one at Cranfield. The two based up in Scotland have both moved onto "bigger and better" jobs, the down south is still trying to get a job a year after graduating.

The only word of caution that all three gave me about doing an MBA is that once you have graduated, you need to consider your next move very carefully so that you don't "pollute" your CV. The guy down south that is still looking for a job has his sights set too high, IMHO. He is back living with his parents (at 36 years old!) and has spent all the money from his house sale on course fees and supporting himself over the past year of unemployment.

All I am saying, which has been said in other ways here already, is to be aware that it is not the automatic leap up the corporate ladder that it once was. Good luck!!!


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## andytt (Sep 25, 2002)

BlueTTone, can you post some info on that course you did - it sounds good!. I just need to convince the company it will benefit them!


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> vlastan said:
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> > jampott said:
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How do you display your competence to someone who has just got hold of your business card?


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Networking means more than giving out your business card...


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## John C (Jul 5, 2002)

BreTT said:


> I have three friends


Yeh - right! :wink:


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

From my experience not worth the money, it wont necessarily get you more money or a better job.
I agree with Garyc on the first page the days of the MBA are gone. To get the job you want you need to be lucky in the right place at the right time and fate on your side and have the get up and go for it attitude... just look at most entrepreneurs, Branson for one no qualification at all.

There are loads of directors on boards without one... in fact you would be better joining the masons than getting an MBA.

Like most USA qualifications they are usually easier and worth less on the international market than a British one ; this certainly works in the Degree/PhD field. On the subject of PhD also worthless unless you are heading for research posts (or an internal student) in which case they are still of benefit but in the real commercial world not worth the effort in relation to your pay/benefit/years spent doing it.

Just my experience.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

vlastan said:


> garyc said:
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> > vlastan said:
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Quite simply by what you both say and do next....:wink:

BTW the best business card I ever saw was from a senior manager in a large firm (not my current one) it read:

John Smith, Acme Corporation, Your Servant.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

garyc said:


> vlastan said:
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> > garyc said:
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Did he make the gadgets that Wily Coyote uses in "Roadrunner"?


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Clue: he wasn't called John Smith and his co wasn't called ACME. :wink:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

garyc said:


> Clue: he wasn't called John Smith and his co wasn't called ACME. :wink:


Well he wasn't my servant, either... so?


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jampott said:


> garyc said:
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> > Clue: he wasn't called John Smith and his co wasn't called ACME. :wink:
> ...


[smiley=sleeping.gif]


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## dimitt (Apr 21, 2004)

garyc said:


> Yes, had one for 10 years. .


what happened to it?


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

dimitt said:


> garyc said:
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> > Yes, had one for 10 years. .
> ...


He sold it on Ebay. :lol:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

vlastan said:


> dimitt said:
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> > garyc said:
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Now I *HAVE HAD* :roll: it for 11 years. It's parked up - I drag it out when a business plan needs writing. I take it off my CV for sales jobs, add it back in for Biz Dev roles. :wink:


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## bluettone (Feb 26, 2003)

*andytt* - the course I did is called MBA in Technology Management from the Open University. The link to the course homepage is below:

http://www3.open.ac.uk/courses/bin/p12.dll?Q01F03_technology

I do think that some of the negative comments about MBAs made in this thread may be from people who only see the qualification as a line to put on their CV. I can honestly say that I have used plenty of concepts, principles and tools from my OU course both as an employee / manager and in starting up my own company. I would heartily recommend the course if you are involved with technology strategy or implementation. It covers both general management topics and technology specific ones in a fair amount of academic and practical detail.

The study weeks are good fun as well.

Marco


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

Those who say their MBA (or their friend's MBA) led to them getting a better job are kidding themselves IMO. I seem to know a fair few people who got an MBA and went onto great things, and a fair few who haven't got an MBA and have gone onto great things. Equally, I know people in both categories who have gone nowhere.

IMO MBA is irrelevant - what's important is whether you have a certain "something" about you - a "get up and go" etc etc. If you really want something, you can generally get it. If you think an MBA is going to save you the effort of really trying for something, then forget it. There are no free lunches etc.

In my work of life, an MBA is viewed as something people do when they are going nowhere, or they are unhappy with their current career. Fine. Nothing wrong with that, but just don't expect it to necessarily get you the job you want. I think you'd be better of applying for that "ideal job" without the MBA now, and if you are hungry enough and good enough, you'll get it.


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

The more qualifications you list on the business card, the more likely it will be that you could pick individual letters to spell the word "twat".

Can I say that here?


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Carlos said:


> The more qualifications you list on the business card, the more likely it will be that you could pick individual letters to spell the word "twat".
> 
> Can I say that here?


And if you don't list any, is it better?

The other option is to list the highest more important ones. So if you have an MSc you don't have to list the BEng as the MSc has more value.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Carlos said:


> The more qualifications you list on the business card, the more likely it will be that you could pick individual letters to spell the word "twat".
> 
> Can I say that here?


Yes. :wink:


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## paulb (May 6, 2002)

I've never seen the point of putting academic qualifications on a business card. Doesn't mean I don't see the point of qualifications and I am considering an MBA or (more likely) a marketing masters. But, they will stay where they belong - on the CV and stored in the filing cabinet in the study at home.


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

paulb said:


> they will stay where they belong - on the CV and stored in the filing cabinet in the study at home.


Amen to that. Much better to rely on your reputation and recent deeds than past qualifications. Whenever I see a business card with an endless stream of qualifications I think aye aye, insecurity/incompetence. Further investigation usually reveals both.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Carlos said:


> paulb said:
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> > they will stay where they belong - on the CV and stored in the filing cabinet in the study at home.
> ...


My point exactly.

garyc. 
_MA, dipM, BA Hons, CIM, MAAT, MRS..........O Level Domestic Science.......25 metres Breast Stoke..etc, etc_ :wink:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

garyc said:


> Carlos said:
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That's weird - I have my 25metres Breaststroke too, but only the "theory" part...


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jampott said:


> garyc said:
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> > Carlos said:
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LOL.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

I should also add that my degree is in Business Economics, I have no formal qualifications for the field I work in (Telephony and computers), and nor am I technically certified in the specific products I support (Genesys CTI).

None of this has stopped me convincing employers, during the last 4 years of an AWFULLY slow IT job market, that I am the right person for the job.

Paper qualifications generally show an aptitude for learning or (worse) sitting exams. Neither show whether you can apply the skills you have learnt in the real world. I know some CGEs (Certified Genesys Engineers) that wouldn't even know where to BEGIN in troubleshooting or supporting in a commercial environment - and I'm sure the same is true in the business world too...

I'm doing a broadly similar, but more structured job that I was doing 6 months ago. The major difference is a change of employer. I'm 100% happier with my job, have a 50% payrise, and didn't have to update my qualifications in order to get either. I would consider simply changing jobs, if you are not content with what you are doing at the moment, rather than investing the time and expense in chasing a paper qualification which may turn out to be the "golden ticket", but could equally be dismissed as worthless by potential employers...


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

I agree with jampott.

I hate those aptitude tests too that were are the rage a few years ago.. They dont prove you can or cant do the job they only prove you can sit a test and can answer some spacial/mathmatical/english questions it doesnt show what personality you have or your communication skills (which are 2 of the most important thinkgs when employing someone).

and yes i wasnt too good at them, but I know am I very good at what I do (no complaints and employers always want me back)


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## pumaro (Apr 17, 2003)

WOW  .

I just did not think it would stir up such a response thanks once again and my mind is made up. I passed the exams at a top 10 UK business School last week and I will be taking some of your comments forward with me.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jonhaff said:


> I agree with jampott.
> 
> I hate those aptitude tests too that were are the rage a few years ago.. They dont prove you can or cant do the job they only prove you can sit a test and can answer some spacial/mathmatical/english questions it doesnt show what personality you have or your communication skills (which are 2 of the most important thinkgs when employing someone).
> 
> and yes i wasnt too good at them, but I know am I very good at what I do (no complaints and employers always want me back)


Agree. Ditto those ridiculous graphology tests and assesments that some pathetic co's used. Absolute arse.

BUT not as bad as the French vogue of the 80s/90s to apply phrenology to the recruitment process in business. Sacre Bleu! :roll:


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> jonhaff said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with jampott.
> ...


Getting a good paid job in today's market it is nightmare. It is so hard to pass the interviews and the companies are so demanding and picky. They use all kinds of assesment to find the correct applicants...and this includes the tests mentioned above. We may not like them but they are meant to help the recruiters pick up the good/clever candidates.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

vlastan said:


> garyc said:
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Not in my field... 

Telephone interviews have been all that has been necessary to get my last 2 contracts, which have combined for 18 months work, and a phone interview plus a brief "meeting" was sufficient for the position before (I think they were checking I wasn't an axe murderer... they didn't check very hard, muhahahahaha!) - which lasted 18 months. So I've managed the last 3 years employment with what essentially amounts to 3 phone interviews...


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

For contracting jobs, yes you are right. Normally a telephone interview will be enough.

But for permanent jobs, it is a different game all together.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

vlastan said:


> For contracting jobs, yes you are right. Normally a telephone interview will be enough.
> 
> But for permanent jobs, it is a different game all together.


All the more reason not to go for permanent jobs then!


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## garvin (May 7, 2002)

The MBA is only useful to 'con' your way into a job - only your ability will enable you to climb the ladder. Yes, there are some with MBAs that have successfully achieved this ................ but a lot more who haven't, despite having the qualification.

The company I work for used to support MBAs but after years of being unable to tell the difference between the performance of those with them and those without them we no longer provide any support and, to all intents and purposes, take no notice of it as a qualification - it might just tip the balance on a CV if nothing else differentiates between candidates - but it would then only get you an interview!

As garyc says on the first page, the time of the MBA has well and truly passed. It is true that, years ago, companies would take on MBAs at silly salaries as some sort of 'panacea' for their ills and promoted them like crazy to the top of the tree. Unfortunately, the fortunes of these companies never really changed and the MBA bubble burst just as quickly as it formed.

I doubt very much whether there is any real return on investment wrt MBAs anymore.


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## XXMetal (Jan 20, 2004)

But surely it's a good start for understanding business? I'm in the IT industry and to be able to run a company I need some business background. So I'm going to do one as a foundation, for myself not anyone else. Then possible look at doing a more specialised qualification.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

XXMetal said:


> But surely it's a good start for understanding business? I'm in the IT industry and to be able to run a company I need some business background. So I'm going to do one as a foundation, for myself not anyone else. Then possible look at doing a more specialised qualification.


Some would argue that a true "entrepreneur" doesn't LEARN business - they just UNDERSTAND it...

A little like chess - you can teach any fool with half a brain what each individual piece can do, and an outline of the rules for them to begin playing. But a true chess player, and certainly a grandmaster uses techniques which it would be nigh on impossible to teach. To refine, maybe... but not to teach.


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

> o I'm going to do one as a foundation, for myself not anyone else. Then possible look at doing a more specialised qualification.


Why not do a DMS then ? - Did one 4 years ago as i was wanting to move away from the technical side of my career into more management - my thoughts were that i had a good engineering background in a number of areas and so expanding my knowledge that way would add more value than specialising in one area. Interesting to do, taught me a lot about how the business works and has speeded up my move up through the company quite nicely 

James.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

coupe-sport said:


> > o I'm going to do one as a foundation, for myself not anyone else. Then possible look at doing a more specialised qualification.
> 
> 
> Why not do a DMS then ? - Did one 4 years ago as i was wanting to move away from the technical side of my career into more management - my thoughts were that i had a good engineering background in a number of areas and so expanding my knowledge that way would add more value than specialising in one area. Interesting to do, taught me a lot about how the business works and has speeded up my move up through the company quite nicely
> ...


James - qualifications not necessary in your field. Just sew on bigger elbow patches an grow longer sideburns... :lol: :lol:


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

Whadaya mean Tim....










:roll:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

thats the dude I was thinking about.... if it works for him, it'll work for you!

on a side note, I've been watching repeats of "Have I Got News For You". They had a news item on the LAUNCH of Beagle II. The question was asked "How will we know when it gets there" and Paul Merton, quick as a flash, replied "we'll lose contact with it"...

Premonition or what?


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

hmm - Luckily i've not had a 'houston we have a problem' incident yet...

but give it time [smiley=oops.gif]


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

vlastan said:


> For contracting jobs, yes you are right. Normally a telephone interview will be enough.
> 
> But for permanent jobs, it is a different game all together.


Disagree V, I have never applied for a job, have always been headhunted, and since setting up my own consultancy 3y ago haven't been out of work, nor had to advertise or look for work.. it keeps coming to me... reputation and word of mouth counts far more than qualifications (yes I have a few but can't recall the last time anyone was interested) or pretty business cards (don't have them either), and every client has offered me a permanent position.

My problem now is how to grow the business bigger than 1 man working flat out and then some and still remain profitable... but thats for another thread...


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

XXMetal said:


> But surely it's a good start for understanding business? I'm in the IT industry and to be able to run a company I need some business background. So I'm going to do one as a foundation, for myself not anyone else. Then possible look at doing a more specialised qualification.


Personally I'd go for real world experience over a course.... I'd had departmental P&L responsibility in a previous existance so I soon found that running my own business wasn't hard. What does matter is having good resources to call on - a good accountant, local business advisory service, the bank's small biz advisor... all have been useful (the latter's contacts were impressive)


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Chip_iTT said:


> vlastan said:
> 
> 
> > For contracting jobs, yes you are right. Normally a telephone interview will be enough.
> ...


There are always exceptions to the rules. I know a friend who had to go to 4 interviews (with the same employer) to be made an offer. These days securing a job at a high salary (over Â£50k) is very difficult and time consuming.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

XXMetal said:


> But surely it's a good start for understanding business? I'm in the IT industry and to be able to run a company I need some business background. So I'm going to do one as a foundation, for myself not anyone else. Then possible look at doing a more specialised qualification.


Richard Bransen has zero formal business qualifications and a beard. It doesn't seem to have held him back...

You don't need an MBA to understand and exploit that basic business premise of having something that people want/need; creating the desire; and fulfilling it; hopefully having spent less in total than you receive in payment.

MBAs are not generally entrepreneurial. Quite the opposite, as most go into, or are in the corporate life.

If you understand your industry; can put together a business plan; attract, hire or retain the right people; can express a valid value proposition to someone who might give you money; negotiate; and read a set of accounts - that's all you need. :idea:


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

jampott said:


> A little like chess - you can teach any fool with half a brain what each individual piece can do, and an outline of the rules for them to begin playing. But a true chess player, and certainly a grandmaster uses techniques which it would be nigh on impossible to teach. To refine, maybe... but not to teach.


Brilliant analogy - I'm going to use that one....  Spot on as well.


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

vlastan said:


> Chip_iTT said:
> 
> 
> > vlastan said:
> ...


Â£50k? a pittance....

Mind u, if an employer messed me around that much i doubt i'd want to work for them... shows a distinct lack of enterprenurial spirit and a lot of ass-covering in my book....


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## che6mw (Nov 13, 2003)

amirahmedkhan said:


> Been looking in to it myself. Â Biggest single factor with regards to the value of your MBA is the school you do it at. Â Seems to me that London Business School is the place to be. Â If you want to do an executive MBA where you do not have to actually go in to school (the executive LBA one STILL requires you to dedicate 40 full days a year to being in school) then Warwick is a good school.
> 
> Have you seen the FT rankings? Â If you can afford it the BEST place to do your MBA is probably the US.
> 
> ...


I get to go to LBS around 3 times a year for about a week each time through my graduate development programme and have to say the quality of lectures is fantastic. Much as I loved my degree at Uni the lecturers of LBS really bring the topics alive. And the case studies are very very good.

I am sure I read it would cost something like Â£40k to complete an MBA there, but I think you could recoupe this on your annual salary in a very short period of time. Certainly the people I know with MBAs from LBS have all got very high 5 figure, or 6 figure salaries.

At the end of the day its all obvious teaching though - talent beats education in my opinion. Stuff from an MBA is often common sense approach to situations - you need to experience it to put it into practice. You can't run a company from a text book.


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## che6mw (Nov 13, 2003)

vlastan said:


> Carlos said:
> 
> 
> > The more qualifications you list on the business card, the more likely it will be that you could pick individual letters to spell the word "twat".
> ...


Bit suspect. An MSc could be a Masters in any sciene including fish studies and bear mating principles. A BEng will always be a degree in engineering. BEng + MSc might look better. And it can't spell "twat"


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

Chip_iTT said:


> vlastan said:
> 
> 
> > Chip_iTT said:
> ...


The grad trainee job I got after university required me to have 12 separate interviews! I came into the office on 6 different occasions.... The thing is, by interview 6 you pretty much know it's in the bag.


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## tj (May 7, 2002)

Would agree with Garyc. 
Got mine in '92, and it does grab the attention when recruiters are ploughing through CVs. For me it allowed me to make the switch from engineering (which I'd had enough of) to more broad based management positions. Without it I suspect I would have had real a difficulty in convincing employers. So it served its purpose.


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## chip (Dec 24, 2002)

vlastan said:


> These days securing a job at a high salary (over Â£50k) is very difficult and time consuming.


50k high salary??? I doubt you will find any decent accoutants with min 18 mths PQE working for less than 50k in our firm,....


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

chip said:


> vlastan said:
> 
> 
> > These days securing a job at a high salary (over Â£50k) is very difficult and time consuming.
> ...


I wouldn't know about accountants...but I have heard that if you are chartered you get minimum Â£50k. I was talking more about Engineering/Networking type of jobs.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

raven said:



> Chip_iTT said:
> 
> 
> > vlastan said:
> ...


Did it involve a full rectal examination at some point? :wink:


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