# Porsche Boxster S (987)



## Rob_vienna (Sep 21, 2006)

Prices if these second hand seem to be quite decent, anyone have\had one? Thoughts on running costs and any essential options to look for on one?

Going looking at a 2005 with:
- chrono pack
- PASM
- Sat nab (PCM)
- sports seats
- xenons
- sports seats
- 19" carrera alloys

Looks to be in good condition and has 65k miles on it with main dealer and one specialist service stamps...


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Drop Jack in a box a PM he has one


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## TT Boycie (Sep 27, 2009)

Girlfriends got an 02 plate 3.2 986 boxster. Lovely car, great handling, plenty of power. Check for RNS issues and clutch if its a manual. Hers returns 26mpg round town and 31mpg on a run.
Cheers - Steve


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

YELLOW_TT said:


> Drop Jack in a box a PM he has one


Indeed I do...what a memory Andy 

Quite possibly the best driving car I've owned...you can almost "think" it through corners and the brakes are pretty much perfectly weighted.

Sounds good? Read on...

A warranty is essential and not a third party one. You need a Porsche one which will mean buying the car from their network or submitting the car for their inspection and buying the warranty which isn't cheap £1.3k+ and a whole lot of conditions to meet - no out of network servicing, no aftermarket kit etc - dealer servicing which will make ownership expensive.

Engines are fragile...RMS isn't a issue (rear main seal) contrary to internet myth. However bore scoring, oval wear of liners, split liners, intermediate shaft bearing failure will result in a new engine being needed. Been there with 3 split liners after 9k miles, fortunately Porsche fronted up the £13k for new lump.
Major problems are still evident on todays Porsches with the M96 derived lump. The failure rate of engines is alarmingly high

Wheel bearings are made of liquorice and, according to Porsche, a 20k mile life is fine - £400 a corner to renew. Air con condensors and radiator are poorly protected from debris and corrode quicker than an 80's Italian car...there's a whole host of other "weak bits"
Do have a look around Pistonheads Porsche section and google "Hartech Porsche" for more info' on any potential purchase - you need to buy with your eyes wide open and do your homework. I wish I did!

Having said that the car is still here but only gets used in the summer and still puts a smile on my face - just constantly twitching about every little noise I hear 

Good luck 

Dave

Edit for speeling!


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## Rob_vienna (Sep 21, 2006)

Thanks for the detailed response, Dave. Much appreciated!

When you say no aftermarket kit does that include stereo stuff? I've got my eye on a couple with PCM Nav fitted and looking to also get the Denison Gateway fitted, would that invalidate the warranty?! As for third party ones, would one that I'd get by buying from a non-main porsche dealer be worthless in this case?

I'd only be doing 6k max miles per year, if that depending on the contract that I land. It may even be half that but I've heard these cars should be run often and not left standing as its condensation and water that causes the IMS to fail.

Any particular essential options? Afraid the one I mentioned in the first post was a bit of a dog, the small plastic lip under the front number plate was loose, the number plate itself was cracked, 19" carrera wheels were bubbling inside, marks on the paintwork including a small dint on the rear drivers side arch..

Two I've narrowed down are a 3.4s (manual) and 3.2s (with Tiptronic). Both have similar options, PASM, PCM, Chrono pack, Bose, Climate Control etc for same price.

Any thoughts on the Tiptronic vs manual? My old V6 TT had the DSG box and I loved it, my only thought is that the Tiptronic porsche is slower than the manual?


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Personally, I'd avoid giving all my money to OPC for the sake of an engine failure which may never happen. Whilst there are known issues with these engines, there are a lot of them out there (in multiple generations of Boxster, Cayman and 911) so this skews the perceived failure rate. When I bought my 996 I chose to avoid warranties altogether (by ensuring I had a pot of cash large enough to pay for any failures) and I'm glad I did, as I had no problems with it. I also bought a higher mileage one (55k in my case) as the failures appear to be worse on lower mileage engines.

The alternative, if you live near enough to Hartech in Bolton, is to get the car inspected by them and then sign up to their maintenance/warranty plan. This would give you significantly more peace of mind than you'd get from OPC, as you'd know the car was being looked after properly by technicians who can spot the warning signs.

As for tip vs manual, the auto box in these cars isn't really comparable to the DSG box. It does the job well enough, and you can use the steering wheel buttons whenever you need to drop a gear or two, rather than waiting for the sluggish kick down, but it's not as responsive as the DSG is.


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## Rob_vienna (Sep 21, 2006)

Good point re: warranty, but anything should cover me warranty wise regardless if its OPC? Surely?

I am looking at higher milers, in this case 55k and 65k, both have full or majority OPC service history and a specialist.

I live in Herts unfortunately, so bit of a mission to get to Hartech...

Sluggish box may sound right for the higher 0-60 times on a tip maybe?


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Rob_vienna said:


> Good point re: warranty, but anything should cover me warranty wise regardless if its OPC? Surely?
> 
> I am looking at higher milers, in this case 55k and 65k, both have full or majority OPC service history and a specialist.
> 
> ...


There's anecdotal evidence of some warranty companies trying to claim the engine failure is 'wear and tear' which isn't covered. If I was getting a 3rd party warranty, I'd want to make sure they would cover that sort of failure. Have a look at this page, showing a few places that offer similar service to Hartech:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=48&t=620413&mid=73213&nmt=Porsche+Warranties

If you're ever down near 911Virgin, it's worth popping in to see them. They're an independent dealer, rather than a garage, and although I didn't buy from them in the end, they know their Porsches and are definitely worth chatting to/buying from. At least they'll be able to give you some honest advice about engine failures.

The higher 0-60 times are common with true autos. They're just not as efficient as manuals, so will always sap a bit of power until it gets up to speed in gear and the torque converter locks up (that's why automated manuals like DSG are so much more responsive). Basically, the tip box is no worse than any other auto from that era, but it's no better either. All depends what sort of driving you'll be doing.


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

The other side of the coin from Spandex! To be fair there are a lot who will sing a similar song, equally there are more than a few who've shared the same boat as me.

Hartech's buying guides are well worth a read as are his posts on Pistonheads. Baz is very clued up on the frailties of this engine and has invested considerable time and money in developing sound engineering solutions to overcome the inherent weakness of the engine.
He is no fool and makes a very good living at doing what he does...if the demand wasn't there he wouldn't be doing it!

If you're in the postion to keep a pot of money available to cover the worst, then good for you. If you can't, then my advice would be to look at Hartech's servicing/warranty plan - it's good and I know several Scottish owners who're happy to travel to him to take adavantage. If not, I wouldn't own one without the comforting blanket of security of a cast iron warranty offers - and the only one I know of is Porsche's own warranty.

Been a long time since I'be bothered with Porsche's warranty...it used to be underwritten by Porsche themselves, however they've since handed it to a third party administrator (because of the high rate of engine failures supposedly) Whoever took it over was a complete nightmare - anything non standard on the car voided any claim regardless if it had nothing to do with claim. Fit paint protection film, a non standard battery, aftermarket audio...you were stuffed. 
The situation may have changed now but at the time it hurt Porsche - long time Porsche owners deserted the marque. Again, you'll need to do your homework if that's the avenue you want pursue.

Tip' v manual...tiptronic, I like it. It's often derided by those who haven't taken the time to explore its capabilities - it's a clever'ish box of tricks that adapts to your driving style, be spirited and it hangs onto upshifts longer; go relaxed and it's no less economical than a manual. If speed is your thing, then the tip' is as fast as a manual as has been shown several times with friends who have/had a prejudice against it...hang on to the wheel, plant your foot and let the electronics look after it all. Mr manual gearbox had a whiff of burnt clutch after several runs  
Try and get an extended drive if you do fancy the "lazy way" Its' no DSG box, but play with wheel buttons and it's pretty snappy.

I said in my first post, they're great cars - more fluid, delicate and satisfying to drive than a 911 IMO. 
I genuinely hope that my less than happy experience doesn't put you off. There's a lot to consider and I believe luck as much as any number of inspections will play a large part in you getting a pain free ownership experience (as will a good warranty :wink: )

Dave


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Jac-in-a-Box said:


> Tip' v manual...tiptronic, I like it. It's often derided by those who haven't taken the time to explore its capabilities - it's a clever'ish box of tricks that adapts to your driving style, be spirited and it hangs onto upshifts longer; go relaxed and it's no less economical than a manual. If speed is your thing, then the tip' is as fast as a manual as has been shown several times with friends who have/had a prejudice against it...hang on to the wheel, plant your foot and let the electronics look after it all. Mr manual gearbox had a whiff of burnt clutch after several runs
> Try and get an extended drive if you do fancy the "lazy way" Its' no DSG box, but play with wheel buttons and it's pretty snappy.


I should add that my 996 was a tip (living in london and using it as my daily made that an easy decision). I liked it, but it was like any other auto box (and more sluggish than the box in the BMW 545i it replaced). It's definitely less economical than the manual though, as my friend has a manual 996 which consistently returned a couple of mpg more on identical runs - you can't have a torque converter without having some losses through it. It's true that real world 0-60 is probably better in an auto though, simply because most manual drivers won't get every gear change bang on - as long as you don't find yourself side by side with the Stig at the lights.


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## Rob_vienna (Sep 21, 2006)

Thanks for all the responses, however, my perfect spec R32 came available and I bought it there and then!

Obviously a world of difference between the cars, and I will have a Boxster S in the near future, but decided that as with the Golf, I want to wait for the spec I really want to come available

On another note, as I wave goodbye to the Mini Cooper S, I realise what an outstanding car that was, especially as I'd kitted it out with:

- media pack
- sport pack
- chilli pack
- sports suspension
- JCW flock/leather Dashboard
- Harmon Kardon stereo
- auto dim mirrors
- Leather Recaro buckets

I Will miss it!


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## gazrawly (Jan 31, 2013)

Jac-in-a-Box said:


> YELLOW_TT said:
> 
> 
> > Drop Jack in a box a PM he has one
> ...


I have been pointed in this direction by a good friend of mine who is on this forum (JayS).

I agree with Jac in the quote post above although I thought the cylinder bore liner issues were mainly isolated to early 2.5L 986 Boxsters. Bore scoring seems to be an issue on the later models although personally I believe this is most likely down to driver error caused by hard driving before mechanical expansion has occured.

The IMS bearing failure is a real issue and as stated will cost you an engine. Replace it with a second hand engine and you'll have the same issue. Not all are at risk and it appears to be a lottery although the risk is estimated at around 20%, or at least it is in my eyes. Why Porsche fitted a sealed for life bearing in an oily environment I have no idea, the seal comes off the bearing and engine oil wash's out the grease thus degrading & causing catastrophic engine failure. The bearing supports a shaft (intermediate shaft) that diverts timing drive from one end of the engine down to a bank of camshafts. When the bearing fails it jumps camshaft timing (same effect as timing belt failure) and bends valves. Unfortunately, it's not just the valves that get damages, prior to complete bearing failure iit breaks down depositing metal swarf into the sump which is picked up by the oil stainer. The swarf is fine enough to pass through the strainer & the oil filter cartridge causing rapid scoring of the cylinder bores, camshaft lobes/carrier, crankshaft mains/big ends and generally degrading the engine prior to the final nail in the coffin.

This isn't a HUGE issue on the Boxsters though, or at least it doesn't have to be 8) Prior to purchasing the car, you could remove & inspect the oil filter cartridge. It's really easy to remove & faces upright so retains oil on removal. There is also a retro fit kit allowing replacement of the bearing in situ which requires removal of the gearbox. I have recently fitted a ceramic bearing upgrade kit & although not cheap at £800 (includes timing gear & bearing pullers) it ensures complete peace of mind. Indy's charge £1200 - £1600 to carry out this job plus a clutch & Rear main oil seal (which is also a known product issue). Mine in the workshop.. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a391/ ... earing.jpg

Other issues include brake discs corroding on the inside faces on the Boxster S, MAF (mass air flow meters) are a major pain in the back side too & cost around £250 for a Bosch unit! Air Oil Seperators cause huge plumes of smoke as engine oil is directed into the inlet manifold when it fails. Timing chain tensioners loose tension over night and sound rough for a second on initial start (common nothing to worry about) & sometimes the engine will smoke on initial startup for a couple of seconds (again common and nothing to worry about). Starter motor "elephant" sqeal is pretty common too, genuine starter motors are in excess of £300. Remote key fobs seem to die of death randomly and require programming to the car. Oil leaks from spark plug oil seals (crankcase oil seals) piece of cake to replace but a hagging point. Front engine mountings on 986's are made of cheese so if this hasnt been replaced, expect it to require replacement at around £90 (they have been updated to 987 mounts). Just like the TT's, check the auto drop windows. Rear fork control arms are VERY common & are around £80 each. They cause an irritating hollow type knocking noise over small cobbled bumps (not over big bumps) BUT this is only apparent once the car has been driven for say 20minutes or so. It's due to excessive compliance in the rose joint on the fork arm (the rose joint is crimped into the arm).

Now, if you havent ran a million miles from this post already then I will continue by saying that you really are in for a treat my friend. These cars are truly sensational to drive!!  Such an intuitive car to drive, such a superb package. If you are unsure, find someone willing to let you loose with it along some country roads in the sunshine with the roof down. I can guarantee you now that the flat 6 soundtrack will have you hooked. The handling is spot on, the brakes are epic, the car really is a delight.

Be sure to find one spec'd with AT LEAST the sound pack & better still the Bose sound system. The stock fitment sound system is rubbish, it doesn't even come with door speakers! :roll: Typical Porsche.

I've just noticed your after a 2005 987. The Intermediate shaft bearings were in the process of being changed if my memory serves me correctly. If it has the enlarged bearing, this is said to be more durable than the earlier single row from 01/02 - 05 but cannot be changed with engine in situ. It requires a strip down of the engine to upgrade the bearing. That said, you could still fit the IMS Guardian which will detect metal swarf deposits in the sump and sound an alarm & light on the dashboard


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## Jay-225 (Mar 7, 2012)

gazrawly said:


> Jac-in-a-Box said:
> 
> 
> > YELLOW_TT said:
> ...


Jay-225 on here fella not Jay.s anymore :lol: 

Welcome aboard mate...

Cheers for posting up the info, thought you might be interested in it as i know you love those IMS bearing :lol:


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## DPG (Dec 7, 2005)

If you didn't go OPC you could always fit the uprated bearings from LN .


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