# Bigger fuel injectors?



## level2005uk (Feb 5, 2012)

Ok guys having been recommended to get bigger injectors siemens deka 630cc ones does anyone know any uk sellers or anyone selling them? Also I believe there is two types long and short ones? Which ones do I get? Also do I need spacer kit for this and if so how many?

Appreciate people must be thinking ... Dude seriously?!? Lol I'm a noob when it comes to the above

Thanks in advance


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## Howzit37 (Feb 13, 2013)

Hi mate,

There is a seller on e-Bay that currently has Deka 630cc's in stock for £225 including delivery. I have never bought anything from them, but they have 100% feed back from over 900 transactions. They are longer than OEM ones, so you will need a spacer kit.

There is another seller on e-Bay that has the right spacer kit for sale. I checked with him last week and you only need one kit at £8 including delivery. They arrived within a couple of days...link below:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130855459670? ... 1439.l2649


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## Mondo (Feb 20, 2009)

4 x http://www.intengineering.com/siemens-d ... -impedence
1 x http://www.intengineering.com/fuel-rail ... 0v-engines

$210 + shipping + any import duty. 'King bargain.


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## level2005uk (Feb 5, 2012)

Howzit37 said:


> Hi mate,
> 
> There is a seller on e-Bay that currently has Deka 630cc's in stock for £225 including delivery. I have never bought anything from them, but they have 100% feed back from over 900 transactions. They are longer than OEM ones, so you will need a spacer kit.
> 
> ...


Thanks mate appreciate that! Think I have the seller on my watch list for the injectors but was unsure if it was the correct ones but you just confirmed it! Thanks again mate got to wait till pay day now lol!

Ps anyone have these injectors for sale please pm me lol


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## cam69 (Dec 22, 2011)

Im having these injectors fitted this weekend and a wak map :smile:

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## level2005uk (Feb 5, 2012)

Mondo said:


> 4 x http://www.intengineering.com/siemens-d ... -impedence
> 1 x http://www.intengineering.com/fuel-rail ... 0v-engines
> 
> $210 + shipping + any import duty. 'King bargain.


Cheers mondo!!

This was my first option however the shipping fees and import duties will come close to £200+. Again I've never ordered anything from the u.s of a.

Mondo top of your head that's assuming you have purchased them from there how much in total it all set you back inlc shipping import duty etc etc


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## level2005uk (Feb 5, 2012)

cam69 said:


> Im having these injectors fitted this weekend and a wak map :smile:
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


Same reason as to why I'm getting them lol good luck mate hope all goes well at WAK! Can't wait to get mine done. Just a few more things .... Lol


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## Mondo (Feb 20, 2009)

level2005uk said:


> ...top of your head that's assuming you have purchased them from there how much in total it all set you back inlc shipping import duty etc etc


I did get them from there. Cost me $210, plus about $10 shipping to an address in the US, then me bringing them back with me last time I was in the US for work. 

Total cost: £130 or so at the time.

I'd have an ask around and see if someone on here might be willing to do you a favour. Someone, perhaps, who's in the US regularly, who flys a lot for his work, and is into OEM+, baby! :wink:


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## level2005uk (Feb 5, 2012)

Mondo said:


> level2005uk said:
> 
> 
> > ...top of your head that's assuming you have purchased them from there how much in total it all set you back inlc shipping import duty etc etc
> ...


Oem baby rings a bell loool! Drop me a pm if you get good news lol appreciate it mate


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

I'd suggest if you haven't bought them then to run 550cc ones the deka 630cc aren't great and don't give a very nice flow which makes tuning them alot harder. 550cc at 4 bar is a better option all round except for the fuel pump being stressed more at 4 bar.

What turbo you running?


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

s3tt said:


> I'd suggest if you haven't bought them then to run 550cc ones the deka 630cc aren't great and don't give a very nice flow which makes tuning them alot harder. 550cc at 4 bar is a better option all round except for the fuel pump being stressed more at 4 bar.
> 
> What turbo you running?


Bloody hell never thought I would say this but disagree totally :lol: :lol:

630s all the way


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## level2005uk (Feb 5, 2012)

s3tt said:


> I'd suggest if you haven't bought them then to run 550cc ones the deka 630cc aren't great and don't give a very nice flow which makes tuning them alot harder. 550cc at 4 bar is a better option all round except for the fuel pump being stressed more at 4 bar.
> 
> What turbo you running?


Running a stock turbo. K04. I've been recommended them by wak and this is no disrespect to anyone however I completely 100% trust him so I will be purchasing 630cc's. I do however appreciate your post


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

jamman said:


> s3tt said:
> 
> 
> > I'd suggest if you haven't bought them then to run 550cc ones the deka 630cc aren't great and don't give a very nice flow which makes tuning them alot harder. 550cc at 4 bar is a better option all round except for the fuel pump being stressed more at 4 bar.
> ...


jamman weren't you selling a set of 550 at one point?.


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## Mondo (Feb 20, 2009)

level2005uk said:


> Oem baby rings a bell loool! Drop me a pm if you get good news lol appreciate it mate


Not me, baby; you! See if Damien can help out - I'm not in the US that often.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Kprincess said:


> jamman said:
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> > s3tt said:
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Yes replaced them with 630s


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

Mondo said:


> level2005uk said:
> 
> 
> > Oem baby rings a bell loool! Drop me a pm if you get good news lol appreciate it mate
> ...


OOOH you little name dropper Mondo... :wink: You got my Oem plus crown for a little while there... :lol:

Damien.

Ps level2005 drop me a line, when you have the available time. Don't dispair i spend my life in the air...Paying uk prices just ain't fair. I might be able to help you out. So if your interested give this brother a shout... [smiley=kid.gif]


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

level2005uk said:


> s3tt said:
> 
> 
> > I'd suggest if you haven't bought them then to run 550cc ones the deka 630cc aren't great and don't give a very nice flow which makes tuning them alot harder. 550cc at 4 bar is a better option all round except for the fuel pump being stressed more at 4 bar.
> ...


Sorry but 630cc on a stock k04 is completely and totally unnecessary! Even 550s are to much really.. 440's are ideal upto 310bhp fact.. You gain absolutely nothing by running more....

I know WAK is trusted on here but there is no gain what so ever to running them plus they are an inferior injector to the 550 full stop... 
I'd be very interested to know the reasoning and why such an unlinear injector is better than pretty good linear one... They hate anything under 1.5ms and give a rubbish idle .. Sorry but bad choice IMHO for a stock turbo...


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

s3tt said:


> level2005uk said:
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> > s3tt said:
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I think it's more about reliability


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

s3tt said:


> I know WAK is trusted on here but there is no gain what so ever to running them plus they are an inferior injector to the 550 full stop...
> I'd be very interested to know the reasoning and why such an unlinear injector is better than pretty good linear one... They hate anything under 1.5ms and give a rubbish idle .. Sorry but bad choice IMHO for a stock turbo...


Mine were upgraded because the 550s were maxing out duty cycle.

I haven't noticed a rubbish idle but all cars, tunes, engines are different I suppose.


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

s3tt said:


> level2005uk said:
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> > s3tt said:
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Rubbish idle? Can anyone confirm this fact? :? And in what way are 630's inferior to the 550's?

Damien.


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

jamman said:


> s3tt said:
> 
> 
> > I know WAK is trusted on here but there is no gain what so ever to running them plus they are an inferior injector to the 550 full stop...
> ...


I'm sure some of you guy's are running silly horses like 350 plus so definitely need them :lol:
Another thing is how many are running other than k04 :wink:


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

To be honest it doesn't matter, it is more to do with the tune.

I had my car running 420bhp on standard TT injectors which are 330cc if I recall correctly. This is on a 5 bar fuel pressure.

Now the benefit of a higher fuel pressure is that the fuel has greater atomisation which means it will burn more of the fuel and you will not lose much out the exhaust. Have a lower a pressure and bigger injectors then you are at risk of flushing too much fuel through, less efficient, less power. Downside of a higher fuel pressure is that injectors open slower, this can mean you have to fiddle around with the pulse rates of the injectors in the map.

I'm running 1000cc injectors and my car idles like OEM. In part this is due to them being in a standard bosche 630cc body which keeps the idle in check. One of the main benefits of these injectors are they are dead time matched which takes the headache of any flow rate inconsistencies.

The only reason WAK 'might' say get 630cc injectors as he has already scaled maps correctly for those and also you don't have to increase your rail pressure from 3 bar (which means all the other map tables don't have to change, main fuel, fuel enrichment, acceleration fuel, deceleration fuel, lambda correction etc etc). If you are running a standard pump and regulator then it is a no brainer to stay at 3 bar.

There are many dependencies to getting Injector Constants correct. If ICs are not right the car will not idle properly or run properly and you will have a lot of corrections. You also have to get in check the Battery Voltage Constant in line with the ICs to properly establish a good idle. To be honest the size of the injector is irrelevant if you get BVC and ICs correct. If you don't you are never going to have the car right.

Most sentiment around certain injectors 630cc and below being hard to tune is more around weak tuners rather than the injector sizes themselves imho.


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Sounds mental :lol:

I mean your TT


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

Kprincess said:


> jamman said:
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> > s3tt said:
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It is right to say though a k04 doesn't really need 630cc injectors. It just gives room for future upgrades :lol:


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## J•RED (Feb 10, 2013)

E3 YOB said:


> To be honest it doesn't matter, it is more to do with the tune.
> 
> I had my car running 420bhp on standard TT injectors which are 330cc if I recall correctly. This is on a 5 bar fuel pressure.
> 
> ...


And I thought carbs were complicated! :?

this is very interesting though!


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

E3 YOB

What kind of upgrades?


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

My car idles just fine on 870's


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## level2005uk (Feb 5, 2012)

I'm just waiting for wak to pop up in this thread lol!! Until he says otherwise I'm going for 630cc's! As stated he's a top tuner and knows what he's talking about. Everyone does things differently ie tuners but seeing as I'm going to him to get my tt mapped I'm 100% convinced he knows what he's talking about and experience backs this up.

No offence to anyone regarding the above

Joe


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Matt B said:


> My car idles just fine on 870's


Another TT with crazy horses


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

level2005uk said:


> I'm just waiting for wak to pop up in this thread lol!! Until he says otherwise I'm going for 630cc's! As stated he's a top tuner and knows what he's talking about. Everyone does things differently ie tuners but seeing as I'm going to him to get my tt mapped I'm 100% convinced he knows what he's talking about and experience backs this up.
> 
> No offence to anyone regarding the above
> 
> Joe


If WAK says 630cc go 630cc - As I said it would take longer than a day to start tuning the car increasing the fuel pressure as lots would have to change in the mapping and much more logs. He is likely got things already dialled in for 630cc so can turn you around in a days work.


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

Kprincess said:


> E3 YOB
> 
> What kind of upgrades?


Everything basically :lol:

http://www.e3yob.co.uk/engine/

Comprehensive list of the engine upgrades here


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

E3 YOB said:


> Kprincess said:
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> 
> > E3 YOB
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Thank you, will have a read of the list of one of the most priciest cars I've ever tried getting modded lol


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

E3 YOB said:


> level2005uk said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just waiting for wak to pop up in this thread lol!! Until he says otherwise I'm going for 630cc's! As stated he's a top tuner and knows what he's talking about. Everyone does things differently ie tuners but seeing as I'm going to him to get my tt mapped I'm 100% convinced he knows what he's talking about and experience backs this up.
> ...


Also to add WAK is a very conscientious tuner. He won't tune your car so it is maxing anything out. He would rather scale things to your components last (probably also the main factor to choose 630cc). He needs to make sure your car will run well when it is hot, cold, being thrashed or driving to the shops. He won't tune your car so it on the edge just for your engine to blow up when atmospheric conditions change. He likes to play it safe which is why no one has ever screamed their engine has blown up.


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

E3 YOB said:


> To be honest it doesn't matter, it is more to do with the tune.
> 
> I had my car running 420bhp on standard TT injectors which are 330cc if I recall correctly. This is on a 5 bar fuel pressure.
> 
> ...


Again I'm going to disagree here! Why run 630cc on a stock turbo, I can't believe for 1 minute WAK has scaled only 1 map for k04 and that's a 630cc....How can you say the size of injector is irrelevant as well. Of course its relevant 100%. Too small you run lean , too large you run rich.. No amount of bVC or IC is going to fix that... Would you run 1000cc on a stock engine or stock injectors on a 500bhp one?

I totally agree about staying at 3 bar.. But fit an injector suitable for your needs... You wouldn't go fitting a gt35 to a standard engine, intercooler exhaust etc so why are these any different? Fit the appropriate injector, 630cc on a stock k04 isn't appropriate...plus there are far better, linear, reliable more appropriate injectors to fit....

I know you mention its down to the tuner, but believe me there are plenty of extremely well respected tuners that wouldn't recommend the 630cc!


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## level2005uk (Feb 5, 2012)

s3tt said:


> E3 YOB said:
> 
> 
> > To be honest it doesn't matter, it is more to do with the tune.
> ...


So what are you recommending mate?

Joe


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

He must have spent at least 20k on that


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

E3 YOB said:


> level2005uk said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just waiting for wak to pop up in this thread lol!! Until he says otherwise I'm going for 630cc's! As stated he's a top tuner and knows what he's talking about. Everyone does things differently ie tuners but seeing as I'm going to him to get my tt mapped I'm 100% convinced he knows what he's talking about and experience backs this up.
> ...


So not true....You're making it out to be something far harder than it is..... There isn't lots to change and are you saying WAK only tunes 630cc injectors ???


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

level2005uk said:


> s3tt said:
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> > E3 YOB said:
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Recommending for what? My whole point is fit injectors suitable for your application,,

Ev14's are by far the best.. Upto 280 stock are fine...k04 upto 305bhp 440s, hybrids 550cc if you run out at top end on the 550s then a 4bar fpr or ev14's 750 @ 3 bar.. These are all tried and tested injectors on the hybrids, stage 2 k04's ...


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

s3tt said:


> E3 YOB said:
> 
> 
> > To be honest it doesn't matter, it is more to do with the tune.
> ...





> How can you say the size of injector is irrelevant as well. Of course its relevant 100%.


Yes it is relevant of course, but irrelevant for the fact the car can run happily with them. Like I said I ran 420bhp on 330cc injectors on 5 bar (there would be no good reason running 5 bar so the injectors scale up to meet needs now and future needs). It is best to choose the right injector to suite your hardware and desired power goals. Unless the OP wants to go and buy a whole load of other stuff (pump, fpr) to meet his goal or just get some larger injectors which will save money now and later if he decides to upgrade might be preferable. If WAK can get the tune perfect on a 630cc injector then he has just factored in future power increases for the OP and saved him money without risking stress on standard components.



> Too small you run lean , too large you run rich..


I think you are being too simplistic in your argument here. I have proven that you can run higher power on standard injectors (i would never do it of course) - running rich or lean comes down to your hardware and tune. You are preaching to the choir and asking what I would do makes no argument, as I have already done it - I run 1000cc as they meet my flow requirements for the targets I want to meet power wise. They give me certain amount of headroom without ramping up my fuel pressure. If I wanted more power than these injectors can flow I will upgrade them further.

I offered up some reasons why 630cc injectors might be suggested. I would not pick them due to it being on a K04 but WAK might have reasons for that.

Everyone who mods their cars continues doing so, in some ways it makes sense to over specify.


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

630 seimens are chosen because of many reasons they are a good brand, They have plenty of overhead for the future.
But they fit without stupid connector adapters that can cause injector faults and the biggest reason being they are one of the most cost effective price point over other injectors.

I'm not into overkill injectors for a K04 for no reason its to give the customer a good value for money option. £220 odd is a good price for a set of 4.

People get so fixated on a technical reason for a choice and in this case its simply a price point without compromising quality, Idle on these hasn't been a problem, they are a well used and proven injector on 1.8t.


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

> So not true....You're making it out to be something far harder than it is..... There isn't lots to change and are you saying WAK only tunes 630cc injectors ???


Don't cry [smiley=baby.gif]


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## level2005uk (Feb 5, 2012)

Wak said:


> 630 seimens are chosen because of many reasons they are a good brand, They have plenty of overhead for the future.
> But they fit without stupid connector adapters that can cause injector faults and the biggest reason being they are one of the most cost effective price point over other injectors.
> 
> I'm not into overkill injectors for a K04 for no reason its to give the customer a good value for money option. £220 odd is a good price for a set of 4.
> ...


Knew he would pop up! Yeah what wak said lol!! Siemens it still is then


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

E3 YOB said:


> s3tt said:
> 
> 
> > E3 YOB said:
> ...


Ok I take your point, I wasn't questioning your choice of injector as they quite obviously suit your need.. At least we agree they aren't suitable I think there are far far better options out there and regardless of the intentions..

My whole original point was they are poor injectors and far better options, especially for a bog standard k04 are available.. Whether anyone choose to listen isn't my issue, do your own research if your at all interested... Just thought I'd pass on the information..


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

you got $$$$ to spend go for it :lol:


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

Just found the printout, might be of interest

It was actually 460bhp on standard TT injectors :lol: :lol:


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

Kprincess said:


> you got $$$$ to spend go for it :lol:


Uprated fuel pump, 4bar fpr, stock injectors.. Cost you less than the 630cc injectors, better suited, more reliable, plenty of room on top, no fitment issues , less mapping.... cheaper! I'm not saying its the correct option or the right option just highlighting the fact your comment is misplaced and not clever....


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

E3 YOB said:


> Just found the printout, might be of interest
> 
> It was actually 460bhp on standard TT injectors :lol: :lol:


Very nice graph and very impressive considering the fuelling, I may be reading it wrong but running lambda near 1 at 5500rpm isn't exactly ideal or even safe! Do you have a graph with the 1000s.? I assume its a gt30?


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## Mondo (Feb 20, 2009)

May as well chip in. I've also the 630cc injectors, mostly for a bit of injector head space (I was also maxing out the 286cc standard injectors) and because these Deka's were cheap. My idle was fine, but she was roughly and lumpy for about the 1st 30 seconds of starting up. Wak tweaked the map and she's been fine ever since.

285 ain't a lot of poke, but I feel better knowing the injectors are far from being max'd, they're good & cheap and, should I win the Lottery, I've got room to grow.


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

s3tt said:


> Kprincess said:
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> 
> > you got $$$$ to spend go for it :lol:
> ...


I'm no expert but you guys are arguing about who has the bigger toy :lol:

So what would all that cost out of interest?.


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

TTSPORT666 said:


> Rubbish idle? Can anyone confirm this fact? :? And in what way are 630's inferior to the 550's?
> Damien.


I will confirm this yes.
deka 630cc injectors dont perform as nice and lineraly as bosch 550's as an example

they also suffer from their ptfe coated pintles degrading on some of the more ethanol blended fuels apparently.

Stock k04 turbo, 550's would be the natural next step for me personally.. cheap enough to buy and work lovely in all conditions

my 2p


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

E3 YOB said:


> s3tt said:
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> > E3 YOB said:
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5bar fuel pressure + Boost pressure ?? Seriously?
Pintle lock up expected at that level on std injectors.

What a curious approach instead of choosing an appropriate injector..

386cc as std btw 8)


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

Kprincess said:


> you got $$$$ to spend go for it :lol:


Irrelevant comment however.
Bosch 550cc EV14's are very well priced also..
Siemens 630cc WILL require fuel rail spacers, as they are longer than bosch 550's.
Nothing wrong at all with the EV14 adaptors.

Run BOTH are you will see the difference in smoothness and overall fuel trims.
Bosch 550's in my experience are preferred over siemens deka

We all have our preferences...

some injectors have very poor linearity on low injector pulse width.. Not all injectors are created equal.


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

s3tt said:


> E3 YOB said:
> 
> 
> > Just found the printout, might be of interest
> ...


LOL.. revs to just over 5krpm and leans out over 5krpm
Perhaps its running out of fueling and IDC?

:lol:


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Some people never change :roll:


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

badger5 said:


> TTSPORT666 said:
> 
> 
> > Rubbish idle? Can anyone confirm this fact? :? And in what way are 630's inferior to the 550's?
> ...


Thanks Bill....So for me the bosch 550's would be a good upgrade, with my k04 and hopefully 300bhp target. 

Damien.


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

s3tt said:


> E3 YOB said:
> 
> 
> > Just found the printout, might be of interest
> ...


Yes not very wise indeed, which is probably why they scribbled over it so I couldn't see it clearly (I don't think I was suposed to see it). Which is why I was not very happy with these people and removed their tune and tuned the car myself. The so called professional tuners that you talk of, 90% are shit which is why so many BT build fail.

This is not presented to be anything but to prove you can flow that, it is also proof that many professional outfits put your car at risk. Before anyone starts (too late Badger is now here) this was quite a while ago and I had put some trust in some so called tuners who turned out to know very little.

At that time the turbo was running PTE5857 - My car now has over 600bhp on a PTE6262 which I tuned myself so anyone saying anything here about lambda etc etc is wasted on me. I already know. I built my car, I tuned it.


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

badger5 said:


> Kprincess said:
> 
> 
> > you got $$$$ to spend go for it :lol:
> ...


Hello,

As said I'm no expert on fuel trims and blah di blahs but like to know why ?

So are you and the other members who disagree, saying the deka 630cc are no good and Wak the tuner is lying to us?.

I've also been reading about this topic on other forums.

Thanks


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

> 5bar fuel pressure + Boost pressure ?? Seriously?
> Pintle lock up expected at that level on std injectors.
> 
> What a curious approach instead of choosing an appropriate injector..
> ...


That was not my approach - It was all part of USRT sending f8cked up 750cc injectors, one being 840c and 'the tuner' running the car on standard injectors initially getting the idle TB and maf scaling. Why he increased the FP on standard injectors I will never understand :?


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## Mondo (Feb 20, 2009)

Kprincess said:


> ...So are you and the other members who disagree, saying the deka 630cc are no good and Wak the tuner is lying to us?..


Not sure anyone is saying that. Injector choice is just that; a choice. Some like the 550s, some the 630s. Both are usually unnecessary for a K04 unless pushing high-ish power. Do you prefer BMW? Merc? Or... Audi? Horses for courses.

Personally, unless you know better, I'd go with what your trusted tuner suggests.


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

Kprincess said:


> badger5 said:
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> 
> > Kprincess said:
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Fella no one is saying the deka 630's are no good. Its all about safety margins and what is deemed necessary for your power output and application. The 630's give a nice safety margin and headroom for future upgrading. And as far as idling is concerned a good map can counterbalance a larger injectors idle character. Why would you say Wak is lying to us? Have another read of the thread.. :wink:

Damien.


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

WAK gives a cost-effective tune which will allow the car to work over 10[0]s of thousands of miles in all conditions.
He tunes your car within *a day * as well as fixing any issues and cares about your budget.

You will drive away happy.

On the other hand you could argue about spray patterns which most keyboard warriors will have read details off vortex - from some guy who upgraded his passat using vacuum cleaner parts.

Going to WAK will mean you come away *happy*, with money in your pocket and the car will drive like normal but have some poke. Get caught in the details and you will end up with some wanky tuner with a rolling road expressing how sh8t something is because they either don't stock it, haven't got the skills, knowledge, time, patience apart from the time express what they have read.

You might find a good tuner but will lose your house for something you won't even notice is better.


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

jamman said:


> Some people never change :roll:


So True.... You ever look yourself in the mirror?

:roll:


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Mondo said:


> Kprincess said:
> 
> 
> > ...So are you and the other members who disagree, saying the deka 630cc are no good and Wak the tuner is lying to us?..
> ...


 [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Seems like a who knows better than the other and no ones backing down :-|

As you state mondo, best leave it too each individual tuners recommendation


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Why would you say Wak is lying to us? Have another read of the thread..

Damien,

I'm not implying or saying Wak is a bad tuner as this is who I will be going to when I finally get all the other issues with insurance etc out of the way. 
The way people are going on, on the thread suggests that he's wrong about these 630cc and 330, 550 will do but as mentioned the 630 are good for future demand if necessary.

I found this as someone mentioned fpr uprated fuel pump etc

les wrote:
Simple question, is it worth upgrading to a 4 bar fuel pressure regulator when running a Revo stage 2 map with 3" DP and sports cat etc?

There is more to this than meets the eye you will need fuelling calibrated to manage the change.

Its down to what's been done to the existing map profile we look at injector duty and if you are running high % then where will protection fuelling come from?

In this case we will fit a 4bar and calibrate accordingly you really need to know what IDC you are running on the current boost profile to make a call on if you should use a 4bar Fpr to get more out of the stock injectors.

tony_rigby_uk wrote:
so a 4bar fuel pressure reg would deliver fuel at a higher pressure, but without a increase in injector size it won't deliver anymore fuel just the same at a higher pressure... so whats the deal here?

We've already seen an answer from Wak to a similar question from Les, but I just wanted to clear this up for my own understanding.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=188863&start=4

Increasing the fuel supply pressure will increase the flow rate by the square root of the ratio of the pressures, so in this case there will be an approximately 15% increase in mass flow rate (Google "pressure flow relationship" or "Bernoulli equation"). Therefore, as stated by Wak, the ECU will have to be recalibrated to take account of this increase as there is the potential for over-fuelling during any enrichment regime, e.g. catalyst heating at start and component protection.

I picked up the following from a manual on Bosch fuel injection and engine management:

"A positive side-effect of increased fuel pressure... is that forcing the fuel through the same injector at a higher pressure tends to improve fuel atomisation. This will tend to improve fuel distribution and combustion efficiency, and may contribute to improved fuel economy.

The benefits of higher pressure are accompanied by some additional concerns, the main one being safety. with fuel lines and connections being subjected to higher pressure, there naturally is an increased risk of leaks or outright failure. To ensure reliability, the standard Bosch parts are rated for pressurs well above the normal

V6RUL

Please be aware that increasing fuel pressure can cause problems.

I was running a 4 bar regulator infront of my uprated fuel pump.
Now i am running a 3 bar as the minimum opening time of the injectors couldnt cope with the amount of fuel going in.
The minimum opening time of my injectors is 1.6ms, i think. Now the pressure has been dropped my injectors can now cope with the demand.
Steve

Thanks

Kal


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

E3 YOB said:


> level2005uk said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just waiting for wak to pop up in this thread lol!! Until he says otherwise I'm going for 630cc's! As stated he's a top tuner and knows what he's talking about. Everyone does things differently ie tuners but seeing as I'm going to him to get my tt mapped I'm 100% convinced he knows what he's talking about and experience backs this up.
> ...


Hit the nail in the head


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

badger5 said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > Some people never change :roll:
> ...


Yes far too often I'm one good looking (slightly chubby) MOFO

Bill you going to come to the RR Day at The Powerstation so we can all have a laugh and argue are POVs.


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

Kprincess said:


> badger5 said:
> 
> 
> > Kprincess said:
> ...


Instead of attempting to put words in someone else's mouth, maybe, just a suggestion, listen and try to understand whats actually been typed.. 620 siemen deka's are not the best... and as previously mentioned a little ott for a std k04.. Yes wak has used them, and tunes for them no doubt, and as such these will be his personal choice. Others, like myself choose bosch 550's, and have also used deka 620 and can make a valid comparison of the two. Deka's do not run as well or smoothly. Simple facts.. based on a lot of experience of many types of injectors on 1.8t. Of course they spray fuel and run a car, but when tuning we are looking for best overall performance and that includes fuel trims across the whole range. Deka's have shown, when compared to the bosch injectors to be a little more non-linear on low injector duty cycle (ms opening.. Lambda adjust is more prevalent with them as it tries to control its low rpm/cruise throttle.

I have not said anyones a liar, so wind your neck in and Stop making such stupid comments.


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

E3 YOB said:


> WAK gives a cost-effective tune which will allow the car to work over 10[0]s of thousands of miles in all conditions.
> He tunes your car within *a day * as well as fixing any issues and cares about your budget.
> 
> You will drive away happy.
> ...


You seem to have little clue on cost comparisons re tuners and injector hardware...
there is no such valid point, whatever point it is you are trying to make.

bosch and siemens are very similarly priced.. so there's no cheaper arguement to be made..?


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

Kprincess said:


> E3 YOB said:
> 
> 
> > level2005uk said:
> ...


Yes Nail on head.. Because he has Maps to use for 620 deka.... His convenience of maps he has built up. NOT neccessarily because 550's are deemed better nor worse, just perhaps thats the tunes he has built up for.

It does not take days to dial in injectors.. Doing it very wrong if thats the case.


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

jamman said:


> badger5 said:
> 
> 
> > jamman said:
> ...


When is it?
I may come up and surprise you


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Instead of attempting to put words in someone else's mouth, maybe, just a suggestion, listen and try to understand whats actually been typed.. 620 siemen deka's are not the best... and as previously mentioned a little ott for a std k04.. Yes wak has used them, and tunes for them no doubt, and as such these will be his personal choice. Others, like myself choose bosch 550's, and have also used deka 620 and can make a valid comparison of the two. Deka's do not run as well or smoothly. Simple facts.. based on a lot of experience of many types of injectors on 1.8t. Of course they spray fuel and run a car, but when tuning we are looking for best overall performance and that includes fuel trims across the whole range. Deka's have shown, when compared to the bosch injectors to be a little more non-linear on low injector duty cycle (ms opening.. Lambda adjust is more prevalent with them as it tries to control its low rpm/cruise throttle.

I have not said anyones a liar, so wind your neck in and Stop making such stupid comments.[/quote]

 sorry


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

Pros/Cons whatever you decide , If anyone wants a different injector mapped for its no problem!


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

badger5 said:


> E3 YOB said:
> 
> 
> > WAK gives a cost-effective tune which will allow the car to work over 10[0]s of thousands of miles in all conditions.
> ...


The argument is that you know what you are going to get from someone who is trustworthy and cares what happens to your car. There are plenty of tuners who will take advantage of people and try and make as much money based on people's inexperience.

Merely stating the case that you know what you gunna get with WAK rather then maybe going to some condescending tw*ts establishment


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

This is what the banter started from!.

they are an inferior injector to the 550 full stop...


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

Kprincess said:


> This is what the banter started from!.
> 
> they are an inferior injector to the 550 full stop...


The banter started because I dared to say something that was a little bit against what everyone else wanted to believe..


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

s3tt said:


> Kprincess said:
> 
> 
> > This is what the banter started from!.
> ...


But are they inferior?. I don't think you'd have problems with either from what I've read and not just this forum. 
As mentioned each tuner sets up the 1.8t in different ways so no way is incorrect else you'd here bad vibes about tuners who have fitted 630s for customers or members off here who's car have gone bang!. 
That's not really happened

Just my point of view in this topic


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

What are Injector Dynamics like? (870/1000)

I have read that they offer superb characteristics and aren't too expensive either.

Question is aimed at anyone that is in the know


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

Yes I run them and they are great - They run in the standard bosche (630) body so are great for idle and I cannot fault them


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Grahamstt said:


> What are Injector Dynamics like? (870/1000)
> 
> I have read that they offer superb characteristics and aren't too expensive either.
> 
> Question is aimed at anyone that is in the know


Oh no Graham did you say Injector Dynamics.... you must be joking......

No idea mate 

Pull your finger out and get the car finished.


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## Bucky (Sep 9, 2012)

F**k sake this thread has confused the ass off me.....all very amusing you guys arguing the toss though :lol:

I've been planning the next stage of my mods...3" DP, FPR, injectors and stage 2 map but this thread has scared the hell out of me and sounds like it can all go horribly wrong depending on the advice of the tuner. This stuff is all foreign to me so will be relying on specialist advice. TTS do all my work and so far extremely pleased....anyone had experience with TTS and higher stage maps, uprated injectors, FPR...etc


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## level2005uk (Feb 5, 2012)

Bucky said:


> F**k sake this thread has confused the ass off me.....all very amusing you guys arguing the toss though :lol:
> 
> I've been planning the next stage of my mods...3" DP, FPR, injectors and stage 2 map but this thread has scared the hell out of me and sounds like it can all go horribly wrong depending on the advice of the tuner. This stuff is all foreign to me so will be relying on specialist advice. TTS do all my work and so far extremely pleased....anyone had experience with TTS and higher stage maps, uprated injectors, FPR...etc


Lol I only wanted advice on uk sellers and if they were short injectors or long lol! It has been amusing tho lol

Just bought myself a set of 630cc injectors tho lool!


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

> Just bought myself a set of 630cc injectors tho lool!


NOOOOOOOOO are you CRAZY!!!! :lol:


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## level2005uk (Feb 5, 2012)

E3 YOB said:


> > Just bought myself a set of 630cc injectors tho lool!
> 
> 
> NOOOOOOOOO are you CRAZY!!!! :lol:


Pmsl!!!


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## Mondo (Feb 20, 2009)

You've what?!? I think you need to read the David Byrne quote in my sig. strip.


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## level2005uk (Feb 5, 2012)

Mondo said:


> You've what?!? I think you need to read the David Byrne quote in my sig. strip.


Hahaha!!!


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## Rich196 (Mar 31, 2011)

WOW just WOW

What a joke this thread is. I have no idea what the hell is going on here. Why can you understand these simple facts instead of scraping in the play ground.

1. Chose an injector that suits your needs if you know what the hell you talking about.

2. If you don't know what you talking about, you read reviews, chose a tuner and trust them, they will have their personal preference on hardware and know it will work.

3. Wak is a top man that will provide you with a turn key solution that he finds reliable, will keep everyone happy and make your car fly. If you dont like it. Go else where.

4. If your mental, have lost faith in any tuning company and can do it yourself, go read the E3 yob page take notes and get to work!!!


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

E3 YOB said:


> Yes I run them and they are great - They run in the standard bosche (630) body so are great for idle and I cannot fault them


+1


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

Kprincess said:


> s3tt said:
> 
> 
> > Kprincess said:
> ...


As I said previously, I have used them, and also bosch 550's, Delphi, Seimens etc etc... and siemens deka vs Bosch 550's the bosch items do run smoother with the low end needing less ecu lambda adjustment to combat their linearity issue low down. The ecu does a good job of keeping it in track so from the Driver persective you can thank bosch for making such a good ecu which has fast lambda adjustment. When tuning however, the different characteristics of the respective injectors show themselves. Not vcds logging, but high speed logging also.
I agree with Dan, the 620's mentioned for std k04 would'nt be an obvious choice for us, where bosch 550's work so well, better sized for K04 + hybrids and are pretty cheap.
Choice/Preference at the end of the day.

Its not a case of going bang, again, why suggest something so daft?

386cc injectors will max out their available duty cycle at 280-285bhp level on my dyno, beyond that and they need more pressure or larger injectors.


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Nothing daft about mentioning something that maybe possible if tuned incorrectly is there.

So what do these Bosch 550 cost per set out of curiosity.


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## Paulj100 (Mar 24, 2009)

Rich196 said:


> WOW just WOW
> 
> What a joke this thread is. I have no idea what the hell is going on here. Why can you understand these simple facts instead of scraping in the play ground.
> 
> ...


Well said that man! [smiley=mexicanwave.gif]

Paul


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

Kprincess said:


> Nothing daft about mentioning something that maybe possible if tuned incorrectly is there.
> 
> So what do these Bosch 550 cost per set out of curiosity.


Nothing daft?... hmm, Sorry but ANYTHING incorrectly tuned will feck up tho.. and pretty irrelevant to injector sizes dont you think? Thats my comment re daft..

In US, they sell for $49/each plus $11 for EV14 adaptors + shipping tax etc


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

badger5 said:


> Kprincess said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing daft about mentioning something that maybe possible if tuned incorrectly is there.
> ...


Nothing daft?... hmm, Sorry but ANYTHING incorrectly tuned will feck up tho.. and pretty irrelevant to injector sizes dont you think? Thats my comment re daft..

In US, they sell for $49/each plus $11 for EV14 adaptors + shipping tax etc[/quote

She's a girl so only going by what's been read tbf.

Non uk sellers argh!!!


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Kprincess said:


> badger5 said:
> 
> 
> > Kprincess said:
> ...


Mr OEM+ may help..


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Wow some serious Viagra munchers on this thread, to dick wave in this weather and still find it lol.(or is that just me)


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

V6 RUL who?.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Kprincess said:


> V6 RUL who?.


The flying trolley dolly who insists he is OEM+
He goes to America frequently.
Steve

Ps I have 6 630s available cos I now run stupid ID1000s


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

V6RUL said:


> Kprincess said:
> 
> 
> > V6 RUL who?.
> ...


Lol oh that guy :lol:

Can he get them cheaper too :wink:


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Kprincess said:


> V6RUL said:
> 
> 
> > Kprincess said:
> ...


I can only guide you to the river..it's upto you if you wanna drink..  
Steve


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

But why if I drown :lol:

Thanks all the same


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Kprincess said:


> But why if I drown :lol:
> 
> Thanks all the same


I wouldn't want to get into trouble for trying to make you drink out of one river or another.. :lol: 
You will only drown if you pick the wrong one.
ID1000 are the best for certain applications but maybe overkill and not the correct spec for Stage 1 or 2 Tunes, but maybe im wrong..  
Steve


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Will see what happens .

Thanks


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

Kprincess said:


> badger5 said:
> 
> 
> > Kprincess said:
> ...


available here too.. from us non US sellers lol

More £ tho.. Taxation Britain being what it is..


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

Kprincess said:


> badger5 said:
> 
> 
> > Kprincess said:
> ...





> She's a girl so only going by what's been read tbf.
> 
> Non uk sellers argh!!!


now I'm confused.. you are replying as if someone else posted under your username?
Do you share a Mr & Mrs Account then?

The problem with just going off whats been read, is you will get led astray most often by others who also read it, and no one has actually Done it, yet post as if they have spreading said mis-information, as read off the tinternet

Take a pinch of salt from whats read imho, and choose a tuner who has a good rep and follow their advise.


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

@Badger bill

No it's just one profile bill, it's the way I said it but sorry you didn't understand what I meant by I'm a girl, she's a girl :wink:

Thank you for your words of wisdom and I will definitely use a trusted tuner and hopefully all should be well as long as my engine can handle the map and nothing goes wrong 

Is that what they call it in Britain :lol:

Kind regards


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