# Swissol...for those waiting - important!



## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

I know from recent, and not so recent posts, many are waiting for delivery of promised products after having WW treat your cars.

I came upon this on BoxaNet, I'll let you make your minds up.... 



> As many of you may have read, a number of the Scottish Boxa.net owners recently engaged the services of one of the forum sponsor's Wax Wizard (Mark Underwood), and were very pleased with the results delivered to our vehicles.
> 
> Anyone whom has had the services previously, will also know that as part of this service, Mark provides a number of products which are both Swissol and Wax Wizard branded, this includes a tub of Swissol wax, MC2 (Multiclean 2) and Shampoo, as well as cloths etc.
> 
> ...


Dave


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

Personally, I don't care what it says on the tin, as long as it does the same job....


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

We have had nothing but good service from Mark and some of us made the effort to speak to him direct which is fundamentally something these guys should have done.

I leave it for Mark to respond if he feels inclined to when he is back but...

The Zymol affair is an intercompany thing between them and Swissol and is years ago so how does that effect his service to you now.

as for the wax, Mark tells us that the factory were short of the ingredient for the ordered wax and Mark ONLY deals with the factory not Swissol GB hence they are not always aware of new products.

Mark supplied the customers with a newly developed wax for Swissol yet to be marketed by Swissol to avoid them getting delayed. The product is supposed to be better than their ordered product.

Obviously he's was busy on his way to the factory so I hope he'll update us when he's here but I dont see why there is any problem......I understand he may have bottled up a new Wax with a swissol label but the only people discounting it are swissol GB. Swissol factory should be ok with it.

I am using his cleaner and car shampoo and very happy with the results, Swissol Wax but he's a skilled enough to develop waxes for Swissol so I'd happily try his own waxes as well.


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

Just for note - Mark is in Switzerland at the moment.....

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions (cos I don't have any more facts than that)


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

> We have had nothing but good service from Mark and some of us made the effort to speak to him direct which is fundamentally something these guys should have done.


You may have - but I know of atleast two people that have been waiting nearly 8 months for a tub of wax ( Due from the Wax Wizard treatment )

:?


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I'm not having a "cheap pop" at WW.
Nor am I supporting one "side" over another!

I have been, and will continue to, use Swissols products...I have no complaints with WW - though I don't source my products through him anymore simply because he can be difficult to contact - by any method!

I'm not going to get into the rights or wrongs of what WW has done. Though if I'd have been in the situation that that the authors of the quote find themselves in then I'd be, rightly IMO, annoyed without any form of explanation as to why I was supplied with non-Swissol branded products.

My only concern here is for the number of members here who have been waiting a considerable period of time for products they've paid for and have yet to recieve. 
Should they get non branded wax, I'm sure the comments made here will allay there fears 

Dave


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

What a shame. Mark really needs to work this one out as I see a lot of people getting upset. I am still waiting for 2 products I ordered from him when he did my car over a month ago.

Those who have used his services will know already that Mark makes his own product (he is a chemist by trade, I believe) and that those products are excellent. I couldn't care whether MC2 is made by Swissol or not - It cleans my car better than anything else I've ever used and is so concentrated that it's great value.

I think that Mark has possibly spread himself a bit thin and is now in a bit of a pickle; The guy works incredibly hard and obviously doesn't have a lot of time to get to his computer at home. We could have done with a bit more communication from him but to be honest I've been too busy to send him much more than an e-mail or two, and he did reply, albeit briefly. It's patently not right to take money for something, offer a delivery date of a week or so (as I was) and then not deliver or provide an prompt and full explanation, but I have no doubt that if Mark could provide the product he would happily do so.

Funnily enough, it was the Porsche do that he was going to once he left my place!

In the end, it matters to me that the product works. I couldn't give a toss who makes it. Swissol's web order process doesn't exactly fill me with confidence (essentially it looks like you fill the form in with your details and then this gets sent for processing - It's not an immediate process and there's no receipt or transaction # given) so they're not perfect either. I ordered some stuff recently from them and have just got an e-mail saying that it'll be 7-10 days delivery; Hardly swift, although that is a little unfair as it may well turn up earlier.

Maybe it'd be good to give mark a chance to respond before everyone bites his head off and starts making dangerous assumptions. Hopefully Mark will post something on here to clarify the situation - That would really be the right thing to do, IMHO.

For my part I would be happy to have Mark WW my car again - He did an incredible job.


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

Matthew - fully agree 

Just one point to note:
Mrs Wax Wiz is not (from my understanding) a great fan of PCs, and Mark is actualy in the Land of the Cheese at the moment (and, I think over the weekend?), so we are unlikely to get a post from him in the immediate future.

But if anyone does have any pressing concerns I am sure he will be happy to answer the phone / txt you back if you give him a buzz.


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

Yeah - Mark came across as not exactly being a computer guy.....Should have seen his face when I suggested he get a laptop! :lol:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Matthew said:


> Yeah - Mark came across as not exactly being a computer guy.....Should have seen his face when I suggested he get a laptop! :lol:


That's all well and good, but if he plies his trade on the internet via car forums, I'm afraid he should get a little bit more savvy with the technology, or consider hiring a cheap PA to do the donkey work for him!

You CANNOT advertise your services to a (web based) audience, then fail to answer emails in a timely fashion. That's poor customer service however you look at it.

Setting autoresponders to allay peoples' concerns is an easy enough thing to do, if you are geared up to support your customers in this way.


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

jampott said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah - Mark came across as not exactly being a computer guy.....Should have seen his face when I suggested he get a laptop! :lol:
> ...


The reason he doesn't get one is that he doesn't have enough time to reply when he gets back late at night. Like I said, the guy is merely guilty of taking on a bit too much work, IMHO.

This whole thing's turning into a real mish mash and without input from Mark it's difficult to see what's really going on. I'm going to try and reach him on his mobile and see if he can post a reply at some opportunity or at least clarify.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Having read the "warning" on the Zymol site, where they've gone to the lengths of naming Mark personally, this does look rather worrying...

If someone wrote comments like that about me on their company website, I would take them to the cleaners if they were libellous - you have to wonder why the comments are still there... 

No doubt many of you are extremely happy with Mark's work. I was about to get him to come and do my Zed, as a present to it for surviving my little accident (I finally got it back from the bodyshop on Tuesday) - but it certainly *appears* like Mark is trading on the reputation of companies like Swissol / Zymol - and whilst he is obviously providing excellent services himself, if he isn't using their products, but is claiming to be, I shan't be employing his services...


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

jampott said:


> Having read the "warning" on the Zymol site, where they've gone to the lengths of naming Mark personally, this does look rather worrying...
> 
> If someone wrote comments like that about me on their company website, I would take them to the cleaners if they were libellous - you have to wonder why the comments are still there...
> 
> No doubt many of you are extremely happy with Mark's work. I was about to get him to come and do my Zed, as a present to it for surviving my little accident (I finally got it back from the bodyshop on Tuesday) - but it certainly *appears* like Mark is trading on the reputation of companies like Swissol / Zymol - and whilst he is obviously providing excellent services himself, if he isn't using their products, but is claiming to be, I shan't be employing his services...


You can read into it as much as you like; Nothing's a clear cut as it always seems though. On the flip side, you could also say that if Swissol claim that Mark no longer works with them, why haven't they taken action to prevent him continuing to use their name, and present his card which has the Swissol logo on it? It's all just supposition!

There's a real danger of this whole thing turning into a witch hunt without some clarity and correct information. I'm not defending Mark, since that's not my business (I hardly know the guy), just trying to get to the bottom of it without leaping to conclusions. Obviously a reply from him would be of massive help to all who have outstanding orders and I think that it's the right thing to do for all concerned. Frankly if someone doesn't have outstanding orders I am not sure whether it is necessary for them to become involved in this thread at all.

I left Mark a message on his mobile suggesting he post something on the forum and I would like to think he will be in touch. I suggest that others who actually have outstanding product do the same and not rely on e-mail.


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

nutts said:


> According to Swissol GB, Mark has not received any product for 9 months!


Thats interesting - i got an order via another forum group buy a couple of months ago, it was delayed in coming due to apparently being held at Dover. I called Mark after a week and Caroline answered and said he`d gone to the docks - two days later it was deleivered to me.
If he didn`t buty a pallette load from Swissol direct, he got it somewhere abroad. Either way it is original Swissol and i saved on it........


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

I'd like to say before I start that I am personally a happy Swissol user and that I have never had a single complaint against the product (mine is nearly 2 years old) nor have I ever heard of anyone that is anything other than gobsmacked at the quality of Mark's detailing when he does their TTs.

BUT then Swissol GB rang me... Swissol GB had just come off the phone with Swissol HQ and gave me some interesting (worrying) info. The Swiss factory are sending me a letter confirming what I'm about to repeat. And I say Swiss factory not Swissol GB!

Since the inception of Swissol GB, no product has come into the country direct to an agent or franchisee.
According to Swissol GB, Mark has not received any product for 9 months! He may however have had stock.
Swissol do not send out Raw Materials to be made up by their agents and franchises.
As of now, Mark (Wax Wizard) is not longer a Swissol stockist
It has been stated that Mark is currently visiting Swissol HQ. According to the last conversation with Swissol HQ, they say that Mark is NOT at the factory.
Also, allegedly Mark states that Swissol have run out of various Raw Materials, such as Lemon concentrate... this appears untrue. Swissol GB have stock of this particular product.

As I said above, all of this comes from Swissol GB and whilst I have no reason to disbelieve them, the weight of circumstantial evidence is growing very heavy. Once I receive the Swissol HQ letter, I will post the content up.

In the meantime, if you are waiting for a delivery from Mark, please send me an email to [email protected]. Subject line "Swissol" and tell me your delivery address, your name, the order cost you have paid, what you ordered and when you ordered it.

I will then *try* through the TTOC to get your order honoured.


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

This is so sad if things pan out the way they look at the moment.

To put an extremely recent experiance here, I emailed Mark on Wednesday night asking if he had a Clay bar in stock, within minutes there was a reply that he had and gave me the price, I emailed him back and said that I would put a cheque in the post on Thursday, without waiting for the cheque to arrive he put the Clay bar in the post (Registered) and I got it this morning 

So what gives?

Mark, if your reading this m8 then you ought to reply because as time goes on its going to look worse if you don't. You have supplied a great service and product over the last 2 1/2 years and I wouldn't want to see that slip away from you.

I think its down to you now Mark.

Graham


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## dimitt (Apr 21, 2004)

In my opinion, only meet Mark the once when he did my car, he seems like a decent character and always ready to offer advice and tips so...

..as he's away till Monday. I'ld like to hold off from jumping the gun untill he can defend himself.

But as a person who's waiting for an order to arrive must admitt i;m 
getting a tad nervous.

+

nutts - if its ok will email you the order next week when I get back home.

(fingers crossed that this isnt the down fall of the W.W he truely does work magic on cars)


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## CamV6 (Oct 26, 2003)

Poor old waxy, give him a break. He works had and tries hard and delivers a good service. He always makes good on his promises even if sometimes it takes a while.

As for the non-swissol products made my Mark, as far as I am aware, the formulas for some swissol products were originally Mark's anyway and swissol bought the patents from him.

Mark is an expert ay making waxes and sealants and MC2 and all sorts of goodies from scratch so the Porche chaps need to chill our and stop creating probs for Mark.

This chap works long and hard hours and spends such a lot of time away from home for days and days on end, and is dedicated to his work, even when is health is troubling him. I wish I was as hard working! (and no doubt my boss does too!)

There, I've said my piece, and I thank-you


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## andya (Jun 17, 2003)

dimitt said:


> ..as he's away till Monday. I'ld like to hold off from jumping the gun untill he can defend himself.


He's had a couple of weeks since the last WW thread on here, plus several months for some people to come up with the goods/answers so I think it's fair enough to express concerns.


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## Topbear (Sep 16, 2003)

With all due respect CamV6..... If you requested and paid a premium price for a product from Audi to later find out that dealer had machined and stamped it himself......would you not be a little aggreived?

I posted the original post for the benefit of everyone, to protect them from what might be potentially dangerous substances, (you havent seen the wax we were sent)! 

As I said the Mark does a great job by hand on the cars, but if he is to be found supplying fake products, arent you interested?


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

TopBear - I think it's fair to say that most (everyone?) appreciates the warning - just that I (personally) am willing to continue to cut Mark some slack at this stage.

I understand that others may have been waiting longer than I, or be agreeved for other reasons.

And welcome aboard BTW


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## swissolgb (Jul 1, 2004)

Dear All,

Our company, Swissol GB, are the sole suppliers of Swissol products into the UK and Ireland , we sell products direct to end users and a number of authorised stockists. All Swissol products for the world are made at the factory in Switzerland, no raw ingredients for any of the products ever leaves the factory, never has done or will do. It has come to our attention that one of our stockists has been processing orders for swissol but not delivering a product supplied by ourselves or the factory. This individual is no longer a swissol stockist and his details are being removed from the Swissol website.
We as a Company will do our utmost to resolve any issues any customer has with swissol products. If a customer has ordered any Swissol products and has been supplied with a different product they should initially take it up with the company they ordered the products from, if you are unsure as to the products being genuine Swissol or not then we will help and advise as necessary.
Richard Jackson & Andrew Mearns, Swissol GB. 01423 797989, www.swissol.com, email [email protected]


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

It's plain to see that the general concensous gives Mark the thumbs up with regards to making your car shine to which I agree with - it unfortunately seems to be however that over the past 9 months or so he has had supply problems for one reason or another.

A Â£200 car wash is a mighty expense but it all seems worth it due to the knowledge and the pot of hallowed wax. However, without this wax all you get is a car wash a few soft dusters and some nice smelling detergent - sort of tips the scales in the opposite way

Regardless of him being away for a week or so does not stop him contacting the people that have been trying to contact him for over 6 months.


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

Interesting and concerning threads and although I have no direct involvement, I thought I would add my thoughts.

Lets say, hypothetically of course, if...you had the knowledge, skill, expertise and business sense to be able to manufacture a product that was as good as a supplied product, but at a fraction of the price and then brand it as the real thing, wouldn't you do it?

If it was me, I would be sorely tempted and I would probably feel particularly peeved if I had helped to develop it in the first place.

Regardless of what it says on the label, it appears to do a mighty fine job, so I would cut the guy some slack.

Perhaps a new product may be appearing soon called 'Wizard Wax' but at a cheaper price.

This is all conjecture on my part though, as I do not know the full story.


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

saint said:


> However, without this wax all you get is a car wash a few soft dusters and some nice smelling detergent.


Sorry, but that's just not fair. Someone spending an entire day preparing the paint on the car, cleaning it and detailing the whole thing is more than a "car wash". On mine Mark did everything from the wheels to the engine compartment - Nothing was left untouched. In fact, the plastic in the engine looked better than it ever did when the car was new. My local Valet company charges upward of Â£150 for a full, detail valet and after having it done on another car I sort of wondered what I paid for. At the end of that I am left with no product, whereas with Mark I get a enough cleaning materials to last me for a good year at least. I think it's pretty good value, even without the wax. The wheel cleaner takes the grime off of my wheels better than anything else I have used and I got a huge bottle of that.

AFAIK Mark actually worked on formulating the products FOR Swissol so I can't see why his stuff is going to give anyone "health problems". It could be that Mark and Swissol came to disagreement over their business and cut him off; In that case they're certainly not going to do anything to endorse him.

If Mark brought out his own range of stuff I'd certainly give it a go; I wonder how much Swissol make on a pot of Onyx and how much it REALLY costs to make. Maybe Mark would be better off doing that anyway. I find it interesting that Swissol have had more than one company selling their stuff over here.

Nevertheless, he obviously needs to let people know the score and then this fuss can hopefully all settle down and those of us who want to can continue to recommend him.


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## CamV6 (Oct 26, 2003)

I think this is awful news and I am really very upset on Mark's behalf.

Seems like there are some short memories out there.

What about the discounts he's given some of you guys, what about all the TLC he's shown your cars and advice he's given you.

No I have not seen the 'home made' product Mark sent you but I would be very surprised if it was naff in any way.

Let me pose a question. What is better. Bearing in mind that swissol were being very slow to supply him, what is he supposed to do. Sit on his hands, do nothin, let people get upset and lose custom? Or as a good chap that he is, do his best to satisfy his punters, make up the wax himself from his own expertise and raw materials (which he no doubt paid for out of his own pocket) and fill the order.

Don't get me wrong, if you have been sent truly inferior stuff by Mark, then I take your point. Its just that it seems to me that the chap has been dragged over the coals and his livelihood compromised in slightly unfair circumstances.

Just my view anyway, make of it what you will


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

So has anyone actually used the product that was sent out?
My money says it will do the job if they do.......


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

From what I have heard Mark does a super job of making cars look good. It hardly appears that he is the deceptive type and he has clearly dispensed many free nuggets of knowledge on here, when it comes to car cleaning and care. That's his talent and should be considered his true value add. What products he uses should be secondary as long as they are 'Fit for purpose, which obviously they are.

Swissol GBs' comments can be largely gnored if they are not a wholly owned susidiary of Swissol ie they have a trading concession but in different ownership. Why? Because many companies use a mixture of concessionaires and agents (which is what I presume Mark was), and that mixture can always be certain of creating 'channel conflict' with one knocking the other for their personal gain, which may well be case with Swissle GB.

What is does point to is that Swissol product is vastly over priced (and Mark knowing it), that Mark has worked hard to build the category (brand) in this country and that Swissol GB now want a slice of the action. If he comes back with better or equivalent but cheaper alternatives, why should that not be a Good Thing?

I too think he should be cut some slack to give his stance and take necessary actions to rectify any upset/confusion caused.

However, it's never a problem just to wander into Halfords and pick up a few Autoglym products. Relatively cheap too. :wink:


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

> Sorry, but that's just not fair. Someone spending an entire day preparing the paint on the car, cleaning it and detailing the whole thing is more than a "car wash". On mine Mark did everything from the wheels to the engine compartment - Nothing was left untouched. In fact, the plastic in the engine looked better than it ever did when the car was new.


Not slating him - however Mark did not spend a full day on one car - infact with my own the wash & wax took approx 3 hours and that is with him washing two other cars aswell.
I am certainly not complaining about price etc and his methods otherwise it would have been Â£200 in my pocket - it's just Dover seems to have been a thorn in Marks side for a little too long.


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

saint said:


> > Sorry, but that's just not fair. Someone spending an entire day preparing the paint on the car, cleaning it and detailing the whole thing is more than a "car wash". On mine Mark did everything from the wheels to the engine compartment - Nothing was left untouched. In fact, the plastic in the engine looked better than it ever did when the car was new.
> 
> 
> Not slating him - however Mark did not spend a full day on one car - infact with my own the wash & wax took approx 3 hours and that is with him washing two other cars aswell.
> I am certainly not complaining about price etc and his methods otherwise it would have been Â£200 in my pocket - it's just Dover seems to have been a thorn in Marks side for a little too long.


Wow - He was at my place most of the day. Left around 6.30pm.


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## IanWest (May 7, 2002)

Same sort of thing. The original group buy was Â£85 or something and the reason for my card being debited nearly Â£100 was the exchange rate that the Swiss used!! At the time didn't really pursue it but it leaves a funny taste. As does the fact that the Hydra blade thing that was a free gift was not included. After numerous calls, I was told that the supplier had not provided them and as they were free, there was nothing Mark could or would do. The products may be good but the customer care isn't. Needless to say, I won't be going back.

Mark, it's a shame but if I treated my clients that way, I wouldn't be surprised if they stopped using me.


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## Topbear (Sep 16, 2003)

bajers said:


> Lets say, hypothetically of course, if...you had the knowledge, skill, expertise and business sense to be able to manufacture a product that was as good as a supplied product, but at a fraction of the price and then brand it as the real thing, wouldn't you do it?


Of course, but would you deliberately sell it as another premium product thereby consistently misleading customers, or would you market, package and sell it as your own?



bajers said:


> If it was me, I would be sorely tempted and I would probably feel particularly peeved if I had helped to develop it in the first place.


Where did this story eminate from?...



bajers said:


> Regardless of what it says on the label, it appears to do a mighty fine job, so I would cut the guy some slack.
> 
> Perhaps a new product may be appearing soon called 'Wizard Wax' but at a cheaper price.


Perhaps it will, and I genuinely wish him luck with that. 
However the wax which he sent to us, alarmed us so much, we had to clarify the product with the supplier, which is how this has come to light. Many people on here and elsewhere, knew of Mark's 'coloured' past with Zymol, however decided to keep quiet about it, probably as it was based on hearsay rather than personal experiences.



bajers said:


> This is all conjecture on my part though, as I do not know the full story.


Mark obviously has a long and loyal list of customers on here, and the original post was not made as any sort of crusade or witch hunt against him. I genuinely don't believe he has duped everyone, as I bought a starter pack last year from him, with absolutely no qualms. So, if you are happy with what you have received recently, then all fair and good, I wasnt, i questioned it, and the rest is history....


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## CamV6 (Oct 26, 2003)

Topbear, to be some of the vehemence in the response may be based to a degree on genuine good will toward Mark. He is a likeable and aimiable chap and decent. Therefore one cant help but have sympathy when someone like that has had troubles might effect his turnover.

If you received genuinely inferior product, or even feel that you ended up inferior product, then there is a problem.

Even if it is simply that you paid for and specifically therefore want the swissol factory product and got a product of comparable quality made 'at home' then you still have a fair enough point.

Can I make as a genuine enquiry on my part? Did you telephone Mark after receiving the product and ask him about it? If so, what did he say in response to your concerns?

I really honestly understand your point and appreciate your position. I'm really not trying to pick a fight or go into bat for him for the sake of it. Its an unfortunate experience for everyone involved. You've every right to (and are correct to) make your point on the forum if you've had a rough ride.

Personally, I have not had any such experience with him. All my 'business' with him has been conducted very fairly and amicably and I've never felt that I paid over the odds for the result gained, or got a bad service over products. Mark even personally hand made another wax for me recently that i use whenever I can and it is magnificent.


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## Topbear (Sep 16, 2003)

OK, to be clear, no I didnt contact Mark directly in the first instance, as my suspicions alluded me to something untowards. He had purported the product to be a geniune Swissol one which he has made himself from ingredients provided by Swissol, i felt I should speak to Swissol to determine if this was 'normal practise'. My gut instinct and experience in these matters is that suppliers try to cover up such 'indiscretions', would everyone have preferred that? 
Some people have said to deal with it privately, however given my understanding of what happened previously (Zymol), I decided to share my experience to see if others have had similar service.

Whether or not the product\wax I received is worse, indifferent, better or whatever, really is of no consequence to me. Fact is it is not a genuine Swissol premium wax, manufactured to their exacting specifcation, using their normal ingredients, which i requested and paid handsomely for. 
I asked for Saphir Wax, and got something called Liquid Shield wax sealer with Teflon(their is a huge clue in there, 'Liquid Wax'), not a hard wax compound like that which was used on the detailing day, or that which I received previously. It smells very strong as it contains some sort of petroleum based spirit, which worries me to be putting near my car......
This is obviously his own concotion, which may turn out to be great stuff, but my choice as a consumer and customer is not to choose this, however I was not provided with a choice before delivery.


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## ramsayn (Sep 10, 2003)

saint said:


> > Sorry, but that's just not fair. Someone spending an entire day preparing the paint on the car, cleaning it and detailing the whole thing is more than a "car wash". On mine Mark did everything from the wheels to the engine compartment - Nothing was left untouched. In fact, the plastic in the engine looked better than it ever did when the car was new.
> 
> 
> Not slating him - however Mark did not spend a full day on one car - infact with my own the wash & wax took approx 3 hours and that is with him washing two other cars aswell.
> I am certainly not complaining about price etc and his methods otherwise it would have been Â£200 in my pocket - it's just Dover seems to have been a thorn in Marks side for a little too long.


I'm 100% with Saint on this, I was one of the other cars washed and waxed that day (7 months ago) and while it was a nice job and the cleaning stuff is great I paid for my Swissol wax and I want my Swissol wax. I've emailed the TTOC chairman as requested but if that doesn't pan out then I'm off to the small claims court to pursue the return of my money along with a complaint to the trading standards.


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

Mark has been quitet of late i must admit, last time i saw him visiting a forum was the same day as the last Swissol thread started where people were moaning about not recieving products that were payed for. He was quick to post when someone was enquiring about Swissol products, I also forwarded an IM whilst he was on asking him to visit here to put peoples minds at rest, which he didn't. :? 
I waited for over 8 months for some leather treatment that i payed for at the last TT anual event and that only arrived because of a similar thread which then brought about a coment that the TTOC hadn't recieved any % that it was promised.
I'm still not sure if they ever did get payed :? 
Seems that history seems to be repeating it self :? maybe alittle hard but unless Mark decides to comment you have to draw ur own conclusion which is sad :?


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## cyberdude (May 24, 2002)

I don't know what to make of all this. Mark did my A4 last December (had sold my TT by then). He spent the whole day on the car when the temperature hardly crept above 5C. I admired the guy for his dedication.

He came across as a nice enough honest guy who seemed to love what he does. Well when he completed my car he gave my 5 litres of shampoo, 5 litres of a solution for the wheels and some cloths. Both the cleaners were in clear plastic unmarked containers (looked home made). He said he had run out of wax and that he would post some to me when he receives it. I was leaving permanently for Portugal the next day but he agreed to post the wax to Portugal.

Well I still haven't received it despite a number of e-mails which he never responded to. Then a recent thread about Swissol supplies on this forum prompted me to SMS him to see what has happento my wax. He replied quite ubruptly saying he had already sent me two pots and that he wouldn't send anything else to Portugal. He didn't say when he had sent them or didn't e-mail / text me to let me know it was on it's way so I have no way of tracing it now.

I have no way of knowing if he did indeed send me anything or not. All I know is that nothing turned up. I regularly have things sent to me here without problems and this thread is making me wonder if he sent anything at all.

Reading on hear you are all talking about MC2 and shampoo, were these Swissol products in proper labeled packaging? As mine clearly wasn't. I don't realy have a problem with that if what he supplied me was the same stuff he used to clean my car but why is he so inconsistent with his products? It certainly helping his cause.

It's all a little disappointing and is leaving a sour taste. He did such a great job. It's a shame it's all falling apart for him now. I hope he dose respond. I have pretty much wriiten the wax off now.


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

See, this is weird. When Mark did my car a month or so back, he included a pot of Swissol Onyx. At that time Tom bought his V6 round to get the bonnet re-done after a re-spray and wanted a pot too; Mark also gave him his there. It's in the Swissol pot, looks the same as I have seen in the pix and came in the little satin bag. It's onyx! Obviously Mark has HAD the stuff up to around a month ago or so, yet peole say they've been waiting 7 months. I just don't get it. How are some of us getting it and some not?

One of the problems I can see repeated here is that people just keep mailing him. Like it or not he's not around enough to read his mail frequently - If you want to reach him then a call is the way to go. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, just that it's the way it is with Mark as I know he's away from home a lot.

TopBear:
When you say "OK, to be clear, no I didnt contact Mark directly in the first instance, as my suspicions alluded me to something untowards. He had purported the product to be a geniune Swissol one which he has made himself from ingredients provided by Swissol, i felt I should speak to Swissol to determine if this was 'normal practise'. " am I right in understanding that you actually have NOT contacted Mark regarding the fact that you are unhappy with what you got from him? Just want to clarify that, as I think that it's important. Sorry if I have got the wrong end of the stick.

Cyberdude hit it on the head for me, when he said "I don't know what to make of all this". I feel the same. Mark's been less than responsive and it's just upsetting everyone. The whole sorry episode is a real shame, as the only experience I have had with Mark (apart from my missing stuff, which is NOT Swissol product - It's Mark's own) has been excellent.

I'm not going to get all sanctimonious about it - God knows I have made cock-ups plenty of times and I'm certainly not perfect. I feel compelled to at least hold my judgement until I hear back from Mark; To me it's just common courtesy to at least wait to hear what someone has to say for themselves before laying into them. It would just be nice to hear what Mark had to say!


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2004)

Wak said:


> We have had nothing but good service from Mark and some of us made the effort to speak to him direct which is fundamentally something these guys should have done.
> 
> I leave it for Mark to respond if he feels inclined to when he is back but...
> 
> ...


for once I'll have to agree with wak's comments

it's sad to hear such things and there seems to be a bit of business sour grapes involved ....

but I've been 110% happy with Mark's work, no matter what he has supposedly used


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

I ordered a starter kit in April and got it within two days and the credit card bill says Swissol GB so I cant get my head round this


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Matthew said:


> See, this is weird. When Mark did my car a month or so back, he included a pot of Swissol Onyx. At that time Tom bought his V6 round to get the bonnet re-done after a re-spray and wanted a pot too; Mark also gave him his there. It's in the Swissol pot, looks the same as I have seen in the pix and came in the little satin bag. It's onyx! Obviously Mark has HAD the stuff up to around a month ago or so, yet peole say they've been waiting 7 months. I just don't get it. How are some of us getting it and some not?


On the same day I went to Matthew's to collect some products - MC2, cleanser, Wax, etc, etc. Mark didn't have my wax which was a shame as I wanted to use it that weekend but he said he'd send it to me. It arrived just a few days later.

This thread is very worrying. I hope Mark comes on here soon to clear it all up.


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## Topbear (Sep 16, 2003)

Matthew said:


> TopBear:
> When you say "OK, to be clear, no I didnt contact Mark directly in the first instance, as my suspicions alluded me to something untowards. He had purported the product to be a geniune Swissol one which he has made himself from ingredients provided by Swissol, i felt I should speak to Swissol to determine if this was 'normal practise'. " am I right in understanding that you actually have NOT contacted Mark regarding the fact that you are unhappy with what you got from him? Just want to clarify that, as I think that it's important. Sorry if I have got the wrong end of the stick.


Yes, you understand correctly, I havent made contact with Mark, and I have cited my reasons already why I chose not to.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

> Obviously Mark has HAD the stuff up to around a month ago or so, yet peole say they've been waiting 7 months. I just don't get it. How are some of us getting it and some not?


Not Obviously - otherwise why are people quoting 7-8 months? Also its not as if the treatment works were newly received additional orders from customers - these events take time to organise etc etc.

Of course there are people that are happy with Marks service - but there now seems to an element of doubt as to his practices - like the " happy customers" we are entitled to voice our grievence.

Also re the "phoning" of him - he clearly states that he is contactable through a number of means - and has in the past given TWO email addresses to contact him through - so obviously no PC gimp. In addition in preparing for the treatment day he responded promptly with any Qs that we had and with regards to available dates etc - however after treatment day he has been very elusive. And he ain't been yodelling (sp) with the Swiss for 7 months.


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Topbear, if you hear anything that may be of interest, IM me here or email me on [email protected].

I'd like to re-iterate, I'm personally happy with Marks service (I still want him to detail my TTC  )... BUT and it's a big "but"...

There are a number of facts that I feel Mark should comment on.

1) It has been stated that Mark is at the factory, yet Swissol HQ (via Swissol GB) state he is not.

2) His communication back to people who have been waiting months is not good enough.

3) Some reasons that have been used are regarding Product held up at Dover... Swissol GB state this is not the case.

4) The TTOC and ******** have been waiting since WELL BEFORE the last annual meet (early 2003) for it's commission. Since that point Mark has PROMISED on numerous occasions to hand over that commission. His last statement was that he had given the commission cheque to JK (the singer) and that JK would come to Brooklands to sign autographs for charity... Last week Mark pulled out of coming to Brooklands :? and still the Forum and OC are waiting for their commission cheque... why does it take over 12 months to hand this over? Every method of communication known to man has been used and still we are waiting...

5) If Mark intends to produce a range of Wax Wizard products, I might just try them! If they are as good as Swissol, then they deserve to be given a good chance!


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## bec21tt (Feb 27, 2003)

I hope he's not at the factory! He's doing my car on Tuesday!!


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

He's in Halfords buying up Autoglym products ...


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> He's in Halfords buying up Autoglym products ...


 

Must take alot of patience to tranfer all the contents from one pot to another


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## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

This issue has been raised on the forum before, the page on Zymol's web site is not new.
Previously Mark has replied with a brief explanation of what happened; It revolves around business dealings *back in 2000*, not since; Mark was once a disti of Zymol products IIRC... there was a business disagreement and because Mark's in the UK and Zymol are in the US taking legal action is almost impossible.

Personally, I've been dealing with Mark for the last 3 years (after he stopped being a disti for Zymol), was probably one of the first on this forum to use his products while everyone else was using AutoGlym products... everytime I've delt with him he's been 100% professional and his products have done everything he's promissed, and more.

Personally, I continue to recomend Mark, his knowledge and products.


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## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

Found the thread... http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... c&start=15


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

bec21tt said:


> I hope he's not at the factory! He's doing my car on Tuesday!!


I wouldn't pay anything in advance for any products if i were you :? Would also ask Mark to log on here to sort this put his side over, he could also use your comp


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

saint said:


> > Obviously Mark has HAD the stuff up to around a month ago or so, yet peole say they've been waiting 7 months. I just don't get it. How are some of us getting it and some not?
> 
> 
> Not Obviously - otherwise why are people quoting 7-8 months? Also its not as if the treatment works were newly received additional orders from customers - these events take time to organise etc etc.
> ...


Well of course "Obviously", because he had some! You've just asked the same question that I did originally - Namely how is it that some of us got it while others have been waiting for so long? It wasn't intentionally a rhetorical question. I got some Onyx from him, as did Tom. That was just over 4 weeks ago.

As for him being a "PC Gimp", whether he is or not is not at issue for me (simply haveing an e-mail address doesn't immediately make you a regular e-mail user; My old man's hopeless with his :lol: ) The biggest problem with his mail that I can see is that he's hardly ever at home to check it. I guess I just cannot understand why people haven't bothered calling him. That people would go to such lengths to continue to e-mail someone when they could just pick up the 'phone and (attempt to) speak with him is beyond me. Maybe I'm just old fashioned in that I still use the 'phone and like to work stuff out by speaking with people!

I don't at any point recall saying you're NOT entitled to voice your grievance, did I? You've obviously had a rough ride with Mark, and that's a bummer, but that isn't my fault. He spent the whole day on my car and many others so I can hardly complain about it; I'm not going to lay into the bloke without reason.

Like I said, I am not defending Mark as I hardly know him, and I am as much in the dark as you are with regard to his whereabouts and status with Swissol. I would just prefer to wait until I hear what he has to say, and frankly I'd prefer to talk to him about it, but a posting on here would be fine at this point.

I just wish he'd log on and sort this out. A lot of people are obviously upset and stuff like this commission thing with the TTOC just makes it seem even worse. What a fiasco. :? [/i]


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## Jae (May 6, 2002)

Would like to note that it is BOTH the TTOC and the Forum who are on a commission basis with Mark.....


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## aidb (Mar 19, 2003)

Mark has never let me down. I had the full valet/sealant treatment early last year, and was delighted with it. I've also ordered various products from him. His service has always been prompt. That's my experience with the man.

Things seem have gone wrong lately. I hope this situation is resolved to everyone's satisfaction. It's over to you Mark...


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## cyberdude (May 24, 2002)

Has anyone actually managed to speak to Mark since this thread started? I tried calling him this morning and got a 'we cannot connect you' message but that could be down to a sometimes crappy network from Portugal.

Just wondering if anyone has managed to speak to him and what he had to say.


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## Senna (Feb 27, 2004)

I think the question that concerns me the most is not related to Marks character, the products he makes himself or his service as many people have nothing but praise for all the above.

It's simply this.

Were people being sold products made by Mark under the pretence that these were "original" Swissol sourced products?

In other words, were people being duped???

I'm sorry to say this, unless Mark speaks up and says otherwise, that's how it comes across :?


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## Senna (Feb 27, 2004)

garyc said:


> He's in Halfords buying up Autoglym products ...


Gary,
I've bought up all the Clearvue so I'm not too worried


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## Dubcat (Jun 10, 2002)

A post by Swissol GB on the Z4um website implies that Mark and Swissol have parted company :?

Am I allowed to post a link to the thread here? If a moderator says it is ok i will do so.

Dub

p.s. I spoke to Mark. He gave me a full explanation however it is long and would be best coming from him.


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

Dubcat said:


> A post by Swissol GB on the Z4um website implies that Mark and Swissol have parted company :?
> 
> Am I allowed to post a link to the thread here? If a moderator says it is ok i will do so.
> 
> ...


Glad you got to talk to him Dub. I suggest others do the same who have concerns.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Dubcat said:


> A post by Swissol GB on the Z4um website implies that Mark and Swissol have parted company :?
> 
> Am I allowed to post a link to the thread here? If a moderator says it is ok i will do so.
> 
> ...


There's no problem with putting a link up but everyone would have to register to view it. Perhaps a cut n paste is easier?


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Lets hope he clears it up. It would be a real shame otherwise :?

Looking at the weight of circumstantial evidence... it's going to be a tough job...



Dubcat said:


> A post by Swissol GB on the Z4um website implies that Mark and Swissol have parted company :?
> 
> Am I allowed to post a link to the thread here? If a moderator says it is ok i will do so.
> 
> ...


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

The link is here


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## p4ul (May 14, 2003)

I personally think this is a case of the WW two being overwhelmed by the success of their business and not being able to deliver throw shear volume against mounting orders. It happens.They're servicing TT, Z4 and other marques, from my understanding. That's alot of people.

Now it seems there are some that are throwing their toys out of the pram without necessarily getting the full picture. Clearly we need some clarification from Mark, but while we are, show me one person who ISN'T satisfied with ANY product he has supplied.

So before this thread loses the plot can we just hold our horses for just a little longer to get clarifcation from either Mark or Carol, who I am 100% confident have been trying their damnedest to help out.

Going forward i have some ideas to help Mark out, but i've got to do some testing of theories before i can say more.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

p4ul said:


> I personally think this is a case of the WW two being overwhelmed by the success of their business and not being able to deliver throw shear volume against mounting orders. It happens.They're servicing TT, Z4 and other marques, from my understanding. That's alot of people.
> 
> Now it seems there are some that are throwing their toys out of the pram without necessarily getting the full picture. Clearly we need some clarification from Mark, but while we are, show me one person who ISN'T satisfied with ANY product he has supplied.
> 
> ...


Aren't you reading the thread, mate?

Topbear made his initial enquiries because he WASN'T satisfied with the product he recieved, to the extent that he didn't want it anywhere near his car...

Plus SEVERAL complaints about very late (or non) delivery of promised waxes or "freebies"

I'm sure Mark does a wonderful job (although there are reports filtering through that he doesn't spend as long with some people as with others) but if you PAY for Swissol stuff, you have every right to expect it. If you buy Optimax petrol and your local garage supply you with their own version of it, you'd complain! It doesn't matter whether Mark is BETTER at making Swissol waxes or not. It doesn't even matter that he is supplying a BETTER product (if he is) - what matters is, he's (for whatever reason) apparently trading on the Swissol name. If they say they don't supply raw ingredients (and thats the factory, not Swissol GB speaking) then I believe Mark has some explaining to do.

I'll book him to come and do my Zed if I'm happy with his answer - but right now, I wouldn't trust him to shine my shoes. Sorry, but that's the way it is...


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> Aren't you reading the thread, mate?
> 
> Topbear made his initial enquiries because he WASN'T satisfied with the product he recieved, to the extent that he didn't want it anywhere near his car...
> 
> ...


I was alerted to this issue a few nights ago before Jackie started this thread, i posted in the moderators section of the forum and the ******** powers that be have discussed it. You can see's Jae's response and also hence why the swissol group buy post has been moved temporarily to quarantine untill some explanations have been provided.

From MY* personal view I 100% Agree with you Tim. I have never used Mark so i am a complete neutral on this, but ALL the evidence at the momment is stacked against Mark, and from what i can see these aren't generalisations either. From the research i have done, these threads are popping up on other Forums as well and more and more stories are coming out of the woodwork about late delivery and poor sevice, missing products etc.

This country strives on it's 'Innocent untill proven guilty', but with the amount of stories and evidence to the contrary, its not looking rosie in the garden. :?

*Not necessarily the view of the ********.


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## p4ul (May 14, 2003)

I have read the threads, so "Hold our horses" means wait and see both ways. I quite agree that given we don't know the situation I wouldn't get my car WW treated until I know the score, but that doesn't mean to say it's concluded as a negative. I do take your point on TopBears issues though.

Let's give the man a chance to respond. If he's a duffer then send the boys in. If he's genuine then everyone's a winner.

Other concur from Z4 forum



> miss mosh (moderator) I feel it's worth pointing out, until Mark responds, no-one has complained about the quality of his service (on here or Boxa.net as far as I'm aware).....this issue is based on the products and hopefully Mark will be able to provide an explanation regarding this as soon as he returns.


Even a prolific complainer of Mark on that forum calmed down



> Well, providing the stuff that Mark used when he actually did my car was genuine, I can say it was excellent. (Just have a look at the pictures of my car on the other WW thread). It was really easy to apply, and buffed off with ease. I was very happy with the results, so at the time, I was more than happy to hand over a large amount of money for Swissol Wax.


Providing a product that turns out to be something else is underhanded and totally unacceptable in anyone's book. If the product is produced elsewhere then it should advertise and label appropriately.

*If* he has totally mislead the various forums then i suspect there will be a 5h*t storm coming his way.

*If* this is a genuine mix-up then there are alot of people on the various forums who have *ss kissing to do.

I know he has supplied products with generic bottles, some with labels that include the text "Wax Wizard" and not "Swissol" - i have MC2, a degreaser and protector as such and saw some of these bottles at the AmD RR day when he turned up for literally 5 mins.

Personally can't complain about the products - they do what they say on the non-existant labels :wink: Product distinction is the key here.


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

Taken from another forum

This is Carol. Marks wife.

Mark at the moment is enroute to Switzerland where he will be for a few days working.

To say that Mark is mentioned on the zymol site is unfair.

As an outsider to all of this...let me say this:

Have a look here: http://www.zymol.com/warn4.htm

Under asll the warning of the zymol site, I will state here for and on behalf of Mark, that all the products mentioned were made by Anwander & Co who are the makers of Swissol. To accuse Mark of having donne this before is unfair especially as it was the makers of swissol who wre behind this. Should those who doubt this then physical evidence by way of invoices and shipping date can be provided to anyone who wants to see this. It was therefore Anwander & Co (Swissol) who were the

manufacturers of the "fake" zymol and not Mark.

18 months agao Anwander & Co (the swissol manufacturer) were in deep legal wrangling with zymol and in the end with their monetary clout won a court case that had the Anwander name removed form the Zymol website. If you look carefully under the warning the same product are listed for Germany as well as Switzerland. Suffice to say we could never afford the Â£60k legal bill that Anwander & Co paid to have their name removed from the website.

As I said, I am more than happy and so is Mark to show anyone the paperwork eminating from the Anwander factory as it is they who made these so called Zymol products and NOT Mark. We too can show you some products that eminated from the Anwander factory bearing the Zymol name. These and the paperwork have been kept for prosperity and looks as though they will now serve a purpose.

I know that Mark has had immense trouble in getting hold a some raw material in ordser to make a particular product with lemon oil in it for use on tyres, wheel arches etc. The ex supplier has increased substantially the minimum order and this is for us as abasic one man team..impossible. Even Mark has run out of this product and is cursing. Suffice to say, that a new supplier has been found and has agreed to supply "handable" quantities. Those that ordered the product WILL get it but after Mark returns home which will be week commencing 12th July. He will be back in the UK early nx week as he has so much work to do.

Anyone who would like to see evidence of the Anwander involvement in the Zymol saga pse do email us at [email protected] or waxwizard'blueyonder.co.uk. Please state you name and address and I will happily post you copies.

Suffice to say Mark will carry on undaunted. We have been planning a variety of new waxes and paint cleaners and these will be launched in the due course of time. Mark is well known and has shown that many of his products work easier and better than those of shall we say Swissol or Zymol. Production of MC2, Swift and Brite continue unabated.

To say that I am p*ssed off is an understatement. If Topbear etc were peed off, why on earth did they not contact Mark direct. Like the zymol saga, when it blew up Mark sailed thru and no doubt he will again this time.

I look forward to getting the emails asking for the Anwander (swissol) involvemnt in making fake zymol that you so unfairly accuse him off.

Mark will of course still continue to support you lot in any way that he can.

Rgds
Carol


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Still - 8 months for a pot of wax due from a treatment day!! That does not address those supply problems - only trues to clear the validity of the product.

Oh and giveing the email addy for a copy of the notes - SO ?? - does this mean they are filtering out the requests for back dated orders!!


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

ronin said:


> Taken from another forum
> 
> This is Carol. Marks wife.
> 
> ...


Cheers for that Ronin - Explains a lot. She makes the same point that I did - Someone being unhappy with mark's work/products etc. should at least call the guy and give him a chance to explain, IMHO. Seems common sense to me.

I hope Mark does get his own "brand" up and running properly as I know his stuff is good. As for those saying that they wouldn't trust him to do their car right now, surely if he turns up with all the stuff that he is supposed to (as he did with me and others) then what's the problem? The only issue is if he doesn't have the wax, or anything else he promises, surely?

Just confirm with him beforehand that he has everything in stock and can supply it on the day, make it clear that if he arrives without any of it you won't be requiring him to do your car and then give the guy a chance to do his job. The only person to lose out if he doesnt do your car is, frankly, you!


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

> Just confirm with him beforehand that he has everything in stock and can supply it on the day, make it clear that if he arrives without any of it you won't be requiring him to do your car and then give the guy a chance to do his job. The only person to lose out if he doesnt do your car is, frankly, you!


Great advice there - somewhere - maybe - dunno tbh.

"Hi Mark" - Mark duely gets to work - car washed - now comes to waxing "Sorry guys but am awaiting stock so I will send your wax out to you once its cleared Dover" - "ok mark - thanks - just go home" :x


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

saint said:


> > Just confirm with him beforehand that he has everything in stock and can supply it on the day, make it clear that if he arrives without any of it you won't be requiring him to do your car and then give the guy a chance to do his job. The only person to lose out if he doesnt do your car is, frankly, you!
> 
> 
> Great advice there - somewhere - maybe - dunno tbh.
> ...


Or how about: "Hi Mark - You brought the wax and the rest of the kit with you, didn't you, like we agreed?", when he arrives? I think you can fill in the rest yourself....... :roll:

I wasn't really intending to impart advice; Just suggesting that it would at least be a good way of someone getting their car done while making sure that the situation is fully understood before booking.

I seriously doubt whether Mark would go all the way to someone's place, knowing that he didn't have the stuff with him after it was agreed beforehand that he WOULD bring it, and knowing he'll be told his services aren't required on arrival. Maybe there's also the option of asking him beforehand that if he doesn't have the wax etc. in stock he does the car but knocks off the price of the stuff he can't provide you with?

I dunno. Nothing I say would influence anybody anyway so everyone can come to their own conclusions. I'd have the guy round to do my car again anytime; His work was pretty amazing and really thorough.


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## simonm (May 8, 2002)

> Just for note - Mark is in Switzerland at the moment.....


Well his mobile phone didn't have an international ring tone last Thursday/Friday.


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

The 2 txts I got from him on Friday appeared (to my limited knowledge of such things) to have come from abroad....


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

simonm said:


> > Just for note - Mark is in Switzerland at the moment.....
> 
> 
> Well his mobile phone didn't have an international ring tone last Thursday/Friday.


Isn't that a bit tenuous?


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

This whole thread is full of hype and supposition :?

As I've said, (personally) Mark has never let me down and I've NEVER heard anything bad said about his detailing, which generally ranges from fantastic to awesome!

Taking a more "club focus" though, I've raised some questions that Mark NEEDS to answer. He must be aware of this thread and as soon as he his able I do not doubt Mark will be on-line answering these and other questions...

Until then I suggest we wait for Mark to come back, as there is little point continuing to exacerbate the situation.

If anyone else is waiting for product, please don't forget to email me [email protected] with your delivery address, how much you paid, what you ordered and when you ordered it.


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## justinp (May 7, 2002)

Hi

I'm very glad I have had nothing to do with Mark and his gue. It would seem that some people on this forum have such brand loyalty, that if you post a thread airing any concerns about certain companyâ€™s bad practices or products then you get flamed.

Cheers

JustinP


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## wesTT29 (May 22, 2004)

Matthew said:


> simonm said:
> 
> 
> > > Just for note - Mark is in Switzerland at the moment.....
> ...


Nothing tenuous about it. If you call someone in the UK, their ring will be the standard UK ring, if they are on the continent it will be the interupted flat tone. This is true even if a call is redirected (unless the call is picked up and forwarded as with my company). The terminating signal tone comes from the local telco not the UK provider.

The only grey area for perception that I can think of are the voicemail messaging services when your phone is off, out of coverage or permenantly diverted - basically logged off the network. For example...

With Orange when the phone is out of contact, the diversion is immediate; if you do get a ring it is also ringing on the handset and any subsequent diversion is due to the recipient cancelling your call or the unanswered (ignored!) timer kicking in. As such you get a true indicator of location from any ring on Orange.

This is not the same with all of the others - though I would need to test to know with which definitively. Certainly with either Voda or O2, even with the phone logged off, the system has to ring a couple of times prior to firing out the 'Welcome to the xxxx voicemail messaging service....'. As such, those users might be abroad, out of contact and still issue a UK tone prior to messaging.

If someone answers a call, the UK or continental tone is definitive when you have called that number directly.

This is a technical answer though and I don't wish to comment on the issue itself.


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

And if it turns out that Mark WAS out of the country?


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## paulb (May 6, 2002)

Don't I Recognise You? said:


> The 2 txts I got from him on Friday appeared (to my limited knowledge of such things) to have come from abroad....


Don't see how you can tell since SMS will still use the home Message Service Centre (i.e. UK based)


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

ahhhh. 

My Ooops!

I checked Mark's txts, and saw the +44 on the front of his number, so assumed it was cos they came from abroad.

Having read your post, checked a txt from my missus - also has +44 

So I stand corrected 
(Unless there is something she's not telling me )

Sorry!


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## VERN (Jun 19, 2004)

:? only just seen this cant believe some of you guys really,just ring him ffs,i have organised groupbuys/deals,spoken to mark on numerous occasions,on the last GB we had 3 parcels not turn up/problems
1 interlink lost it
2 guy went on honeymoon and asked for it to be delayed,mark forgot then,rang him fri,products were with andy by tue dinner
3 postman wasted the box,and mark sent rep products

top guy,and highly recomended,also caroline will prob,under great stress due to all this, as well as mark,give a break,he's back next week,he will sort it!!!!!!! 

please no more i,ve waited 8 months ..........get off ya ass and ring him

let the flamin begin :evil:

just makes me angry when a guy is hung drawn and quartered,without a say so (trail) lol

vern


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

I'm normally a reasonably chilled sort of guy... but when Mark owes over Â£1400 to 2 orgs for over 18 months and NO AMOUNT of communication (email, phone, etc) elicits a response that is anything more than a fob off... what can you do? and I have also organised group buys for Swissol and other stuff and at the beginning I would say Mark was great and stuff was delivered on-time. At the moment he seems to have lost it... and I *AM* waiting to be corrected by Mark on that... and I sincerely hope he does.

You clearly have no concept of what is going on (you are in the same boat as anyone else and yet you are also jumping to the opposite conclusion... and I believe you may have meant "trial"


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## VERN (Jun 19, 2004)

Nutts yeah trial lol 

i do understand whats going on as i can read,and most stuff has been covered in the thread,lost it?, maybe under great pressure,and i agree he aint helped his self by not repling quickly but hey human nature is to take on work not turn it down,and thats the heart of the prob,the guy is so good he cannot be everywhere @ once,i'll await marks reply as we all will :wink:

vern


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

But allegedly Swissol HQ and GB have both disowned Mark and contradict what Mark says about the Raw Materials and the lateness caused by Dover docks, etc... and he hasn't been delivering product or paying the owed commission... So circumstantial evidence it may be, but it is sh1t loads heavier than the evidence in his favour...

Nice car btw


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## VERN (Jun 19, 2004)

nutts

know what your saying,about swissol disowning mark,agree very worrying,lets hope it's slander because he made better products than swissol :lol: ,seriously mate the money @ stake is huge and only mark knows the real answers,i will watch this with interest and hope you all get sorted,as i luv my saphir wax etc 

Nice car? poormans AUDI lol,bargain of the decade though mate,went for an S3 and R32 came home with an lcr and nearly built a double garage with the change 8) 

vern


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

nutts said:


> But allegedly Swissol HQ and GB have both disowned Mark and contradict what Mark says about the Raw Materials and the lateness caused by Dover docks, etc... and he hasn't been delivering product or paying the owed commission... So circumstantial evidence it may be, but it is shit loads heavier than the evidence in his favour...
> 
> Nice car btw


He did however deliver goods to people up until about 4/5 weeks ago, which is why it's so confusing, you know?

I just don't know what to think. Really hope this gets sorted soon and that Mark lets everyone know what's going on. It would be better for everyone.

For what it is worth, my feeling is that Mark, being the sort of bloke he appears to be, has taken on too much work and has fallen out with his suppliers with orders outstanding. He has probably spent a lot of time and plenty of stressful days trying to sort out a solution but is now feeling even more pressured than ever. God knows I'd be crapping myself if it was me.


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## andya (Jun 17, 2003)

Matthew said:


> He did however deliver goods to people up until about 4/5 weeks ago, which is why it's so confusing, you know?...


No he didn't as I've now 7 weeks overdue without any explanation and there are some people on the forum who are 8 months overdue!


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

andya said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > He did however deliver goods to people up until about 4/5 weeks ago, which is why it's so confusing, you know?...
> ...


Try a Cesarean :roll:


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

and it iisn't just 1 or 2 either, that are still waiting for product :?


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

I know most things have been covered off on thise thread already, but I can't help sticking my oar in...

For the record, I've been very happy with my Swissol products and have no idea if they're genuine Anwander & Co or WaxWizard. However, from Swissol's point of view they can't have someone going around selling product and 'passing off' that product as genuine.

I beleive it's illegal and that you can be fined for doing so. At least in pubs when you order a 'coke' meaning a generic cola drink, they have to tell you if the drink you receive is not Coke, the brand.

It may well be that Mark's own formulations are better, but the point is that if they're not, and it's a big IF, then you have no comeback from Swissol if they damage your car.

If it is the case, then Mark should set up as WaxWizard and market that brand - I'd imagine there's enough loyalty towards him to make a go of it, however he needs to explain his actions thus far. :?


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## mog (Aug 24, 2002)

Mark came up to my house yesterday(Monday) to rewax and detail my RS4 before I sell it, I didn't know about all of this at that stage but when he was waxing the car I did notice it was in liquid form out of a blank bottle and asked what it was...the reply was that it is teflon based and better, I didn't ask for swissol products but for the services of Mark and I trust him after using him on various occasions. The finish on my RS4 is a credit to him regardless of what products he used and will continue to use him for what he does best.

Mog


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

ummmmmmmm

I thought Mark was in Switzerland :? I think Mark need to answer some of the posts on here :? Otherwise he may find his business dwindling away


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## simonm (May 8, 2002)

So he _is_ in the UK then....the plot thickens........


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

to be objective, Mark maybe on the road with booked jobs in the uk so until he's home and digested whats been said...we should be patient.

:?


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## John C (Jul 5, 2002)

I think it was Professor Plum, in the Library, with the iron bar.

Time will tell...........


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## Dubcat (Jun 10, 2002)

you do not have to register to view this thread:

http://www.z4um.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4504&start=0

You will see a post from Marks wife on the first page which explains their perspective on the Zymol thing.

The person who had Mark using the liquid stuff - I like your attitude. If the stuff is good then who cares whether it is swissol or not. However, the folks who paid for swissol specifically in the group buy are in a different situation. It seems they were mislead.

Personally, I think Mark should have been more professional about this. I hate to have to say that because I am really pleased with the Swissol I bought from him and I think he really puts a lot of effort and sweat in to his job. However, cottage industries like the one he is in rely on reputation. He did himself no favours recently.

Dubcat


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Dubcat said:


> you do not have to register to view this thread:
> 
> http://www.z4um.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4504&start=0


Yep - my mistake. It's the boxster site you have to register for.


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## muTTley (Mar 15, 2004)

jacTT225 said:


> I think it was Professor Plum, in the Library, with the iron bar.
> 
> Time will tell...........


clay bar surely  ......... i'll just get me coat........


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## Topbear (Sep 16, 2003)

Dubcat said:


> The person who had Mark using the liquid stuff - I like your attitude. If the stuff is good then who cares whether it is swissol or not. However, the folks who paid for swissol specifically in the group buy are in a different situation. It seems they were mislead.
> 
> Personally, I think Mark should have been more professional about this. I hate to have to say that because I am really pleased with the Swissol I bought from him and I think he really puts a lot of effort and sweat in to his job. However, cottage industries like the one he is in rely on reputation. He did himself no favours recently.
> 
> Dubcat


At last, some common sense comes to the fore!

I opted to speak Swissol first, and not take Marks story on my 'wax', given what I had heard about him re:Zymol very recently. 
My fear was that, he would 'rectify' my situation, and then some other punter would get screwed for Swissol stuff later on. And co-incidentally, I have had a number of PM's from various people, asking me what they have been given as its not what they expected, but they didn't want to cause a fuss over it, as he did a good job of their car.
Cheers


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

andya said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > He did however deliver goods to people up until about 4/5 weeks ago, which is why it's so confusing, you know?...
> ...


Andy: I'm afraid he DID; Read my earlier postings in the thread. Myself and Tom (Chip) had our cars done and he bought our stuff with him. This included a tub of Swissol Onyx Wax for each of us - Little sliky bag and all. Where he got them I have no idea, but it's the real deal. Maybe it was the last of it?

I'm sorry TopBear - With resepct, nothing's going to convince me that not calling Mark directly to simply give him a chance to respond before you spoke to Swissol was the right thing to do, whatever is written on the Zymol site. If he wasn't answering his 'phone then at least you can say you tried your best. If you reached him you may have been able to save yourself a lot of extra hassle.

That Mark is in the UK and working on people's cars is obviously disappointing, since I am sure many people would prefer that he took a day off and sorted out this dog's dinner. It also appears that if he's using some new gear then he and Swissol must have fallen out. The stuff I have on order with Mark is his own gear - Not Swissol. It could be better for him anyway that he is doing his own thing.

Whatever is going on he appears to be rapidly running out of time to hold on to what has been a very good reputation amongst people here (and elsewhere). That's a shame. I hope everyone gets their stuff, or their refunds and that TTOC/TT Forum get their money soon.


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## bec21tt (Feb 27, 2003)

Mark came and did my car yesterday, and he said he was in Switzerland at the end of last week.

He gave me some shampoo, MC2 & cloths and on Thursday/Friday said I'd receive the liquid teflon polish with sponge/pad by recorded delivery as he'd had a large package delivered and it was in his loft.

Bec


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

bec21tt said:


> Mark came and did my car yesterday, and he said he was in Switzerland at the end of last week.
> 
> He gave me some shampoo, MC2 & cloths and on Thursday/Friday said I'd receive the liquid teflon polish with sponge/pad by recorded delivery as he'd had a large package delivered and it was in his loft.
> 
> Bec


 :x Lucky you - BUT - one I am not waiting for polish & two he should be trying to sort out his back order mess rather than running around doing the easy grab Â£200 a time thing by taking on more car wash/treatment bookings.


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

I've just rung Mark and got thru to his VM... I left a message saying the if he doesn't know (and I would be surprised) about the theads on various forums, then he should logon, specifically to the ******** and answer some of the questions that are being raised against him...

If he does not do this soon, then any hope of him maintaining his loyal customer base will be wiped out.

I have asked to him to confirm (that since Mark pulled out of attending Brooklands at very short notice, by txt msg) when the TTOC and ******** will receive their overdue commission and when all the outstanding orders (some months old) will be satisfied.

I left my number again and asked him to ring me.


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## pas_55 (May 9, 2002)

nuttMark was in Switzerland :?[/quote said:


> Perhaps they mean Swizz-a-land?


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

mog said:


> Mark came up to my house yesterday(Monday) to rewax and detail my RS4 before I sell it, I didn't know about all of this at that stage but when he was waxing the car I did notice it was in liquid form out of a blank bottle and asked what it was...the reply was that it is teflon based and better, I didn't ask for swissol products but for the services of Mark and I trust him after using him on various occasions. The finish on my RS4 is a credit to him regardless of what products he used and will continue to use him for what he does best.
> 
> Mog


Exactly... he hasnt attempted to hide anything, he said his treatment is his he never made an attempt to call it anything else... its everyones posts in here making that claim. However he did sell me some Swissol stuff and it arrived in authentic bottles/bag and the stuff I ordered from him namely shampoo and MC2 was his own mixture which he states.

He did an excellent job on my 2 cars and dont see what the fuss is about!? so what he makes his own , as far as i am aware he hasnt tried to mis-sell or repackage his product as Swissol he meanly sells that on the side when he can get hold of it ?!
Which it looks like not at all now !


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

nutts said:


> I've just rung Mark and got thru to his VM... I left a message saying the if he doesn't know (and I would be surprised) about the theads on various forums, then he should logon, specifically to the ******** and answer some of the questions that are being raised against him...
> 
> If he does not do this soon, then any hope of him maintaining his loyal customer base will be wiped out.
> 
> ...


Nutts - can't be more fairer than that.



> He did an excellent job on my 2 cars and dont see what the fuss is about!? so what he makes his own , as far as i am aware he hasnt tried to mis-sell or repackage his product as Swissol he meanly sells that on the side when he can get hold of it ?!
> Which it looks like not at all now !


Just incase you missed the point of this thread - then I'll summarise.

1 - People have paid Mark for polish/wax/services and are still awaiting their order to be fulfilled.
2 - Some people, granted a little off mark (no pun), doubt the validity of his product and his sources.

I am in No.1 - to give Mark his dues he never mentioned that his products were Swissol - but did make it clear that he homemade, which tbh I have no problem with - it's the 8 month wait with no contact/reply from Mark thats the thorny bit.


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

fair point...
to me it looks like he over committed getting swissol and then got cut off from his supplier and now he is stuck.... all of which he should have been upfront about agreed (if thats the case)
I get the feeling he had an insider who used to get him swissol stuff which he sold on the side?! maybe. 
He goes overseas to get teh raw ingredients for his mixtures too so the visiting swissol factory maybe just a cover..... either way he should now stand up and state the truth or its all hearsay and gossip


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

I've received a postal letter from Swissol HQ signed by Mr Swissol (Mr Anwander), CEO Swissol...

The gist of it is as I've posted previously... deep regret that they've had to remove Mark from their list of approvd vendors, etc because of material iregularities, etc

As soon as I'm home, I'll scan it and post it up...

:?


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## Senna (Feb 27, 2004)

Sorry to pursue this point. Whilst I'm sure Marks "other" products are good, were some of these products being sold to customers as Swissol?


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Mark sold Swissol but also sold his own products under the name "Wax Wizard".


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Did Mark ever claim to be waiting for ingredients from Swissol in order to make up waxes?


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## maersk (Feb 1, 2004)

Find all this hard to fathom. 
If you ordered a TT but were given a Z4 or Nissan 350Z would you be happy?


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## Hilly10 (Feb 4, 2004)

Some on here might just say yes to that question :wink:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

maersk said:


> Find all this hard to fathom.
> If you ordered a TT but were given a Z4 or Nissan 350Z would you be happy?


no I wouldn't be happy...

you expect to get what you ordered. Whether you think the 350z or Z4 "better" or not, they aren't a TT - and that's what you've chosen to spend your money on.


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## Dubcat (Jun 10, 2002)

Mark sent Topbears group buy people his own runny stuff in pots with SWISSOL labels on them. What's more, he didn't bother to tell them that it wasn't the real deal i.e. the pots were NOT labelled wax wizard afaik. Is this trustworthy behaviour? I'm sure the stuff is brilliant - but that is no the point no matter HOW much you like Mark.

By the way, he did not supply his own stuff because swissol decided to end their relationship with him. He claims his orders were delayed - so he inserted his own product. AFTER this swissol cut him off.

Dubcat.


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

Now I'm even more confused?

Did Mark have a bunch of empty Swissol containers hanging around?
Or did he print up fake Swissol labels and stick em on his own pots?

Not that I really care TBH (on a personal level)

I paid for a product that will get my TT looking as stunning as it did on the day after Mark worked his magic.

I don't care if it comes in a pot, a bottle or a plastic bag, and I *certainly* don't care what name is on the outside.

It's the results I'm after


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## Topbear (Sep 16, 2003)

Here is a picture of the products I received.......now dont get jealous all you fellas still waiting.. :wink:

I have marked out what was sent to me as a supposed 'Swissol wax', see if you think its the same as all the other Swissol waxes in the range.

Apologies for the HUGE picture!, if your on dial-up, hard lines....shoulda got broadband!! :lol:


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Topbear said:


> Here is a picture of the products I received.......now dont get jealous all you fellas still waiting.. :wink:
> 
> I have marked out what was sent to me as a supposed 'Swissol wax', see if you think its the same as all the other Swissol waxes in the range.
> 
> Apologies for the HUGE picture!, if your on dial-up, hard lines....shoulda got broadband!! :lol:


Oooo you got labels on your stuff.....


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Don't I Recognise You? said:


> Now I'm even more confused?
> 
> Did Mark have a bunch of empty Swissol containers hanging around?
> Or did he print up fake Swissol labels and stick em on his own pots?
> ...


Confused - don't be - atleast you can get a shiney car.


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## IanWest (May 7, 2002)

Well if I had been in the country for a week by now, and had nothing to hide, I would be defending myself...Silence speaks volumes :?


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

I left Mark a voicemail last week. I've been very defensive of him, simply because there's been a lot of people just jumping to conlusions, without Mark having put his point of view across. I felt he needed to be given that chance and I think it's fair to say that he has. My VM told him that there was a bit of a stink being kicked up and that it may be an idea for him to check it out and take care of it.

However, as the days go by it doesn't look like Mark's planning to call or mail those people waiting any time soon, if he has indeed been back in the country a week. If he HAS been sticking his own stuff in Swissol bottles that's not on, if he's claiming that it's Swissol made. His own stuff is very good, but it's not Swissol and if THAT is what you're paying for then you have a right to be cheesed off if you don't get it.

This TTOC/TT Forum commission thing is really bad.......


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## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

Wax_wizard
TT Forum Established Member

Joined: 09 May 2002
Posts: 360
Location: PLYMOUTH UK and Zurich
Usergroups:

Posted: 10 May 2004 19:37 Post subject: Black TT For Sale..Regretfully

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_Black TT For Sale..regretably

2000 x reg Audi TT Coupe 1.8T Quattro (180). Black. Climate control. 
Heated leather seats. ABS. Alloys. Anti theft system. Very good 
condition. Lady owner. 37,000 miles. MOT'd until Dec 04. Taxed until Feb 05. Swissol treated by Wax Wizard May 04 and in immaculate condition. FASH and the best bit Â£15250 or thereabouts. 
Tel: 07876 505193.

Last edited by Wax_wizard on 16 May 2004 20:48; edited 1 time in total _

I wonder if 'Learn' will receive an answer to his post today (9th July) in the For Sale section, asking Mark for details of his car :?:


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

Just out of curiousity TopBear, what are the other products in the pivture - I see one of them is, I assume MC2, just like to know what the others are.

On the subject of MC2; some 4 or 5 years ago I obtained a few gallons of a product marketed as a "Citri-Clean", some of which was still lurking around in the back of the garage. 
This is identical to MC2 - smell, colour and the way it works...this is a product he claims to produce himself ?.

Does anyone have the current Forum GB price list? Again out of curiousity, can anyone tell me the price of "Concorso" wax please.
I recently bought the genuine product from an authorised Swissol re-seller for less (I think) than the current GB price 
Note the "think"



> This TTOC/TT Forum commission thing is really bad


...agreed. Even worse for those waiting months for their goods - and Mark must be aware of it.

Dave


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

Jac-in-a-Box said:


> Just out of curiousity TopBear, what are the other products in the pivture - I see one of them is, I assume MC2, just like to know what the others are.
> 
> On the subject of MC2; some 4 or 5 years ago I obtained a few gallons of a product marketed as a "Citri-Clean", some of which was still lurking around in the back of the garage.
> This is identical to MC2 - smell, colour and the way it works...this is a product he claims to produce himself ?.
> ...


Citrus is user as a cleaning agent in loads of stuff. It also smells similar to mountain bike chain cleaner, but the formulations are different. Mark's stuff isn't as overly "citrus" smelling (i.e. fake smelling) as some of the stuff you get at the supermarket/Halfords.


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Jac-in-a-Box said:


> On the subject of MC2; some 4 or 5 years ago I obtained a few gallons of a product marketed as a "Citri-Clean", some of which was still lurking around in the back of the garage.


Is it this: http://www.smartbuy-catalogue.com/ProductDetail.asp?idxProduct=30 ?


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## dimitt (Apr 21, 2004)

Topbear, did Mark throw in a lap top too?


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## pgtt (May 7, 2002)

The people waiting for the goods, have you paid WW any money? :?


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## Topbear (Sep 16, 2003)

Jac-in-a-Box said:


> Just out of curiousity TopBear, what are the other products in the pivture - I see one of them is, I assume MC2, just like to know what the others are.


WaxWizard ActiveF Shampoo
WaxWizard MC2 (Multiclean)
WaxWizard Swift (White trigger spray....dunno what this is\does!!!) 
and a dubious wax in the silver bottle, which smells like Saddam's WOMD! 
Three micro-wipes

I also paid extra for a spray-bottle (not shown)



dimitt said:


> Topbear, did Mark throw in a lap top too?


I would have kept shtoom if he did :lol:


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## andya (Jun 17, 2003)

Topbear said:


> WaxWizard Swift (White trigger spray....dunno what this is\does!!!)


Swift is a product mark makes and uses for plastic trim, e.g. the engine covers, door sills (plastic bit) etc.

I thought it was quite impressive stuff when he used it on mine although he didn't leave any behind. It was Â£10 for 500ml


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## andya (Jun 17, 2003)

pgtt said:


> The people waiting for the goods, have you paid WW any money? :?


The situation most of us seem to be in is that we have paid for Mark the Â£230 for his services - which were excellent - but then at the end got told that he didn't have any of the Swissol Wax which was included in the price. The reason given for the lack of Wax was a customs hold up at dover and that this would be resolved in the next few days and the wax would be sent on shortly - that was now 8 weeks ago for me and 8-9 months ago for some other people!

Given that the retail price of this wax is around Â£40, then that is what we are owed.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

pgtt said:


> The people waiting for the goods, have you paid WW any money? :?


Â£200 cash or was it a bit more, close enough.


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

> Is it this: http://www.smartbuy-catalogue.com/Produ ... Product=30 ?


Quite possibly Clive...we had it delivered, in bulk by a tanker, as a "friendly" alternative to expensive to buy - and dispose of chemical degreasants.

The stuff is undoubtedly good and has hundreds of uses beyond wheel cleaning. It would be inevitable that it would find it's way onto the market as an environmentally friendly multi-pupose cleaner.

Just noticed that one of my remaining containers of WW supplied MC2 has a nice Swissol" sticker on it. I don't have a problem with that - it's good stuff...just think it's Mark repackaging, and in my case, rebranding a commercially available product.
Just don't see Mark knocking the stuff up (considering the volume he dispenses out) in his garage to sell on.

Topbear, thanks - anyone know what the Brite is for?

Concorso wax... I got mine for Â£104 inc delivery within 2 days. I have it in my head that the GB price was Â£119. - Then again, that MAY have been
the price before deducting the GB discount :?

Dave


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## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

Dave,

Had a look on the price list I have on my PC - downloaded before it was taken off the forum Sticky post - Concorso wax - Â£97.75 forum price (Â£115 Retail)

HTH
NaughTTy


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## sonicmonkey (Mar 20, 2004)

Jac-in-a-Box said:


> > Is it this: http://www.smartbuy-catalogue.com/Produ ... Product=30 ?
> 
> 
> Topbear, thanks - anyone know what the Brite is for?
> ...


Brite is used for cleaning the windows. Does an amazing job. Spray on and spread with a newspaper, turn newspaper over and buff. It has similar effect as RainX, although some of this may be contributed by using the newspaper as they have all sorts of chemical/waxy print thingys...(I hope I haven't blinded you with science)

Smells like Windowlene tho :wink:


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## dimitt (Apr 21, 2004)

Have just spoken to Mark who advises that he will be sending a reply to the msg's and that on Monday products will be sent!

no more info afraid.....


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## Mayur (Jan 29, 2004)

FWIW, I had Mark work on my car yesterday and apply the paint sealant. As usual he did a super job on the car and I remain a happy camper.

The purpose of my post is not to defend or chastise anybody and therefore I would say that I did briefly have a conversation with him about the concerns that are mentioned on this thread. All I can say is that all of us ought to bear in mind that there are ALWAYS two sides to a story and before we publicly condemn someone we do need to take into account the facts in each individual case/issue. They do vary. I also think that it's important to take into account that it is someone's livelihood we are dealing with and the consequences of some of the remarks on this thread can be quite far reaching for Mark... is it worth it? Especially when he has generally been of help to forum members. I'm not defending him nor am I criticising those individuals who feel agrieved and have gone public with their views. I just think that the simplest way was/is to talk to him individually and resolve your issues and keep it private. The reason for my previous comment is that I don't think that Mark is a bad chap and I certainly don't think that he is deliberately trying to con anyone.


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

> Had a look on the price list I have on my PC - downloaded before it was taken off the forum Sticky post - Concorso wax - Â£97.75 forum price (Â£115 Retail)


Thanks NaughTTy, I'm fairly certain there is an "ammended" price list that some have after the pricing was removed from from the GB thread.

A kind fella by the name of Angelos ?  emailed me one a few weeks ago, unfortunately can't find it the moment, but I'm sure there were some substantial increases over the original prices...as always, I could be wrong

Dave


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## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

Jac-in-a-Box said:


> > Is it this: http://www.smartbuy-catalogue.com/Produ ... Product=30 ?
> 
> 
> Quite possibly Clive...we had it delivered, in bulk by a tanker, as a "friendly" alternative to expensive to buy - and dispose of chemical degreasants.
> ...


For those who havent recieved their goods - wells thats a plain rip-off.

However

I used Mark for my sisters car (I have always used Zymol) and he did a damn good job. I used him because you guys and people on other forums recommended him.
At the end of the day everyone was more than happy with his work and he should have owned up to not being a pucker Swissol guy but if his work was as good as/better than the work of the real guys then who cares!?

At the end of the day I dont feel ripped off.


----------



## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Thanks for the info Mayur 

BUT Mark has had plenty of chance to answer some of these questions and hasn't... how long do members have to wait not only to receive their goods, but to JUST receive an answer to their worries :?

I rang Mark and left him a fairly explanatory message on his mobile vm and yet I still wait for him to respond... irrespective how much livelihood is at stake... sometimes enough is enough 



Mayur said:


> FWIW, I had Mark work on my car yesterday and apply the paint sealant. As usual he did a super job on the car and I remain a happy camper.
> 
> The purpose of my post is not to defend or chastise anybody and therefore I would say that I did briefly have a conversation with him about the concerns that are mentioned on this thread. All I can say is that all of us ought to bear in mind that there are ALWAYS two sides to a story and before we publicly condemn someone we do need to take into account the facts in each individual case/issue. They do vary. I also think that it's important to take into account that it is someone's livelihood we are dealing with and the consequences of some of the remarks on this thread can be quite far reaching for Mark... is it worth it? Especially when he has generally been of help to forum members. I'm not defending him nor am I criticising those individuals who feel agrieved and have gone public with their views. I just think that the simplest way was/is to talk to him individually and resolve your issues and keep it private. The reason for my previous comment is that I don't think that Mark is a bad chap and I certainly don't think that he is deliberately trying to con anyone.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

nutts said:


> Thanks for the info Mayur
> 
> BUT Mark has had plenty of chance to answer some of these questions and hasn't... how long do members have to wait not only to receive their goods, but to JUST receive an answer to their worries :?
> 
> ...


Â£200 - car wash - I'll get your wax to you asap - once it clears Dover docks......Dec - Jan - Feb - Mar - Apr - May - June - July.......??


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## Mayur (Jan 29, 2004)

nutts, saint, I take your point and I guess I would feel the same way if it happened to me. I just think that going public with this could just alienate Mark and thus delay things even more.


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

I don't disagree and if you look at most of my posts on this thread, I believe they demonstrate that I'm quite suportive of Mark's work, personally...

BUT he is not helping himself AT ALL... and how long should someone keep quiet, with NO feedback, NO answers, NO product? 1 month?, 2 months?, 3 months, 6 months?... 18 months (TTOC and forum)? Is 18 months not long enough, when we never got a straight answer from Mark?



Mayur said:


> nutts, saint, I take your point and I guess I would feel the same way if it happened to me. I just think that going public with this could just alienate Mark and thus delay things even more.


----------



## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

nutts said:


> I don't disagree and if you look at most of my posts on this thread, I believe they demonstrate that I'm quite suportive of Mark's work, personally...
> 
> BUT he is not helping himself AT ALL... and how long should someone keep quiet, with NO feedback, NO answers, NO product? 1 month?, 2 months?, 3 months, 6 months?... 18 months (TTOC and forum)? Is 18 months not long enough, when we never got a straight answer from Mark?
> 
> ...


Yeah; One had hoped that he would have at least posted something or called back those that had left him voicemail. I think people would be more understanding of any problems he may be facing if he communicated a little more. :?


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

I'm not convinced that "live" telephone conversation is Mark's prefered method of communication in any case - I know he thinks that text messages are fine - it's how he let me know that none of what he'd promised for Brooklands was going to happen :?


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

clived said:


> I'm not convinced that "live" telephone conversation is Mark's prefered method of communication in any case - I know he thinks that text messages are fine - it's how he let me know that none of what he'd promised for Brooklands was going to happen :?


Text? That's weak.


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## Senna (Feb 27, 2004)

Mayur said:


> I just think that going public with this could just alienate Mark and thus delay things even more.


With respect Mayur, there are probably a lot more people out there (from quite a few car forums) using the same logic.

IE: "If I don't complain in public I might get my wax for being a good boy"

IMO WW has had every chance to come clean on what's really been going on. The fact he's avoided posting for this long doesn't bode well. I know most of us can only speculate but speculation is like maths. Enough accurate info and the equation WILL fall into place.

As a forum owner myself, I know how much money busy forums cost to run and also know that sponsorship support is an invaluable source of income which helps keep forums running. I find it very disturbing that this forum has been used as a marketing tool/money maker by WW who still seems to be holding back commision payments to this forum.
That's just not right!


----------



## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Still no answer to my phone call and emails, wrt commission payment owed...

The top item on the next committee agenda will be legal action to recover the debt...


----------



## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

Sad to hear this but I think he has had time to reply to you considering the few people he has cleaned cars for in the last few days who have let him know what was going on.

I just don't understand why he is having this sort of attitude, even if he contacted the TTOC to see if something could be worked out would be better than no contact at all - strange.

Graham


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Believe me... I do NOT want to recommend this course of action to the committee, but what else can we do? Suggestions on a postcard please :?


----------



## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

It all appears to be heading for an unhappy ending, not entirely sure there will be any "winners" here 

I know a member from another forum had WW treat his car this weekend and very pleased with the results. He was well aware of the problems others had experienced...no Swissol products were used and he recieved 5 lt of MC2 cleaner at the end.
All the products used were manufactured by WW.

Apparently Mark is aware of the concerns raised here and on other forums, but would appear completely unfazed by it all.

It also leaves us with no supplier of Swissol products at favourable prices...though having said that I sourced a tub of wax at a better price than Marks current discount price list (I managed to get a copy of his latest price list for the TTOC G/B)...saved Â£10

If it will help in anyway, I can contact my supplier (an authorised Swissol re-seller) to see if he can help on here supplying the potions and lotions...NuTTs?

And before anyone suggests I'm being opportunist; nothing in it for me.

Dave


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

nutts said:


> Still no answer to my phone call and emails, wrt commission payment owed...
> 
> The top item on the next committee agenda will be legal action to recover the debt...


Mark! i thought all this was sorted after the thread i or someone started a few months ago :? Mark contacted me via e-mail as i thought he had your self. Got the stuff i was owed a few days after.
Jonah


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Rob,

An email full of empty promises... that's what he sent me!

Last year Mark "promised" that the head of Swissol would be arriving with a presentation cheque at Burghley... what happened? Guess!

The latest fiasco was that JK had the money in safe keeping for us and that JK was coming to Brooklands to sign autographs and display his Swissoled Enzo and Bentley... what happened? Guess!

Bullsh1t that's what.


----------



## Mayur (Jan 29, 2004)

Senna said:


> I find it very disturbing that this forum has been used as a marketing tool/money maker by WW who still seems to be holding back commision payments to this forum.
> That's just not right!


Whatever was promised should of course be honoured. Whats right is right. I presume there was a formal written agreement in place. If so, any idea why payment is being held back? If every other means to reach an amicable resolve has been exhausted then there are other more formal actions that can be pursued.

To be honest I am surprised that Mark has'nt posted a reply to this forum... even a one-liner would actually have helped everyone especially himself. I also think that more damage has been done to his business already than the amount of money it would have taken to resolve the outstanding issues. It is a shame.


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## pgtt (May 7, 2002)

Is WW back in the country? surely he must have something to say? :?


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

Maybe due to him not being able to supply the products rather than the service to cleaning your cars, which he evidently is still doing to get some ready made cash together, the product side of his business may have gone into liquidation and so therefore you have all be rumbled, not got your products or any feedback/communication by the charlatan!


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## Antwerpman (Nov 4, 2002)

I have just read through the whole of this thread and I have to say that it seems to be that the WW has had his chance to put right any misunderstandings, allay peoples fears and move forward from this issue but he has chosen not to do it.

I have never met him or used any of his products, but I know that there has always been a very vocal group of supporters for WW, and I remember previous threads where storms have blown up about WW and many people have fought his corner.

However it seems to me that no matter how nice you are, or how great your service, to knowingly pass off fake product is plainly and simply wrong. I think the 'honourable' thing to have done, if he was cut off by his suppliers, would have been to give his customer the choice of WW waxes OR a refund. It seems that he chose neither of these courses of action.

I cant see how he can be running around the country with 18 month debts, 8 month old outstanding orders and the accusations that are being voiced here. It seems to me that either he doesnt give a sh!t or he is burying his head in the sand and hoping to ride it out.

I wait with great expectation for his reply if it ever materialises, but I think anyone with the problems he is facing should at least take a day out and sort out the backlog in orders, reply to the outstanding concerns and put things in order. After all if he charges Â£200 for a full day cleaning a car, then I guess it is only going to 'cost' him Â£200 in earning to make his customers happy once again - a small but worthwhile investment I would think!!


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## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

Jac-in-a-Box said:


> It also leaves us with no supplier of Swissol products at favourable prices...though having said that I sourced a tub of wax at a better price than Marks current discount price list (I managed to get a copy of his latest price list for the TTOC G/B)...saved Â£10
> 
> If it will help in anyway, I can contact my supplier (an authorised Swissol re-seller) to see if he can help on here supplying the potions and lotions...NuTTs?
> 
> ...


There is a guy who logs on here by the name of "john_wintle" who is supposed to be a Swissol rep. IIRC he was reluctant to tread on Mark's terratory. Maybe he should be contacted?


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

I have things in hand... something should be announced soon :roll:



mighTy Tee said:


> Jac-in-a-Box said:
> 
> 
> > It also leaves us with no supplier of Swissol products at favourable prices...though having said that I sourced a tub of wax at a better price than Marks current discount price list (I managed to get a copy of his latest price list for the TTOC G/B)...saved Â£10
> ...


----------



## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

mighTy Tee said:


> Jac-in-a-Box said:
> 
> 
> > It also leaves us with no supplier of Swissol products at favourable prices...though having said that I sourced a tub of wax at a better price than Marks current discount price list (I managed to get a copy of his latest price list for the TTOC G/B)...saved Â£10
> ...


I met him at GTI - he squeaks when he walks, i was short of change and he wouldn`t let me off 50p - not so bad but id just bought 4 products !


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## kctt (Nov 10, 2002)

at last someone says it........



nutts said:


> Bullsh1t that's what.


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## sonicmonkey (Mar 20, 2004)

I've just spoken with a chap from Swissol GB and top marks to him for being 100% upfront about this whole mess. WW is due in their office on Thursday to discuss matters.

He did say that they are monitoring all the threads from the different forums and are alarmed at what's been going on. Here's hoping he can arrange something with Swissol HQ to sort the outstanding orders....


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## IanWest (May 7, 2002)

He probably won't turn up like his products!


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Mark,

I think you should set an example and go to court to recover the money you are owed. Obviously being "nice" isn't working, and hasn't for 18 months...

Perhaps a TT friendly solicitor on the forum can help and advise?

People shouldn't be allowed to trade on the goodwill of the TTOC and the TT Forum and not pay what they have promised to...


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## Jazzedout (May 8, 2002)

So no news of WW yet?


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## Topbear (Sep 16, 2003)

Nothing directly.....but all the doubters might be interested in this thread http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... hp?t=28179


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## kingcutter (Aug 1, 2003)

do you think he may turn up at brooklands with a stand. :?


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## john_wintle (Mar 9, 2003)

ronin said:


> I met him at GTI - he squeaks when he walks, i was short of change and he wouldn`t let me off 50p - not so bad but id just bought 4 products !


Think it was a little more than 50p if I remember and I had already given you a nice discount to start with.........next time I will have a spare shirt so I won't get cold.....


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

john_wintle said:


> ronin said:
> 
> 
> > I met him at GTI - he squeaks when he walks, i was short of change and he wouldn`t let me off 50p - not so bad but id just bought 4 products !
> ...


Nope it was 50p. Nice discount - i saved about Â£1.50 - whoopdeefoooking do !
You best buy some wd40 :wink:


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## sqssqs (Jul 27, 2004)

Have just read all the way through this thread and thought I'd use it as my first post!

My experience of Wax Wizard is as follows:

1) As a former Leon Cupra R owner, I picked up on WW through seatcupra.net
2) I spoke with Mark on monday of last week, who spent the time to explain his products, and agreed to honour a seatcupra.net group buy originally set up 6 months ago.
3) I originally told Mark I wanted Swissol products. He explained that he no longer deals with Swissol and that he was able to supply his own products.
4) I paid, via Paypal on the Tuesday, was told he would need to make the product and wait for the Waterblade to arrive, and then would post to me on Monday 27th.
5) I happended to be in Plymouth yesterday, and arranged with Mark to pick up the product. This was delivered, in full, as arranged.
6) I have now used all of the products, and am delighted with the results.

Just one view I know, and certainly of no help to those waiting on money, or product, or to those who have received products purporting to be swissol when they are not.

This said, I'm happy...


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

Welcome to the forum and well done for picking the most unpronounceable ID...... squesssquesss!


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

Wak said:


> Welcome to the forum and well done for picking the most unpronounceable ID...... squesssquesss!


Perhaps he heard john_wintle walking past


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

Indeed! Welcome aboard  - and glad you're happy with the product 

You're hinting tho - as a *former* cupra owner, now on a TT forum.....


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

digimeisTTer said:


> Wak said:
> 
> 
> > Welcome to the forum and well done for picking the most unpronounceable ID...... squesssquesss!
> ...


Superb !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :roll: :wink:


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## sqssqs (Jul 27, 2004)

More than just hinting...

See my post in the main forum.


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## CH_Peter (May 16, 2002)

Blimey. Having sold the TT and not awaiting any product, I hadn't so much as batted an eyelid towards this thread.

It sounds like Mark has gotten off lightly thus far. If I were any one of the people waiting, I would be working my way through small claims by now (which you can do online). I'd also recommend that course of action for the TTOC, if they qualify for small claims proceedings.

For passing off a product as your own, one you do not own the intellectual rights to it or its logo... well, our company has several legal wranglings running at the moment. We don't ake it lightly, and Swissol shouldn't either.

And for those who spoke out first and foremost, a hand, because as this would suggest...



> Hi
> 
> I'm very glad I have had nothing to do with Mark and his gue. It would seem that some people on this forum have such brand loyalty, that if you post a thread airing any concerns about certain companyâ€™s bad practices or products then you get flamed.
> 
> ...


...you run the great risk of getting flamed. Not every experience with a company can be perfect, and I feel very hard done by with my one experience with a company that everyone always recommends, and thus never posted up it, knowing that it would certainly be shot down.

Pete


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

CH_Peter said:


> Blimey. Having sold the TT and not awaiting any product, I hadn't so much as batted an eyelid towards this thread.
> 
> It sounds like Mark has gotten off lightly thus far. If I were any one of the people waiting, I would be working my way through small claims by now (which you can do online). I'd also recommend that course of action for the TTOC, if they qualify for small claims proceedings.
> 
> ...


Totally agree...


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## CH_Peter (May 16, 2002)

> Totally agree...


Date and time duly noted.    :wink:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

CH_Peter said:


> > Totally agree...
> 
> 
> Date and time duly noted.    :wink:


I changed my mind... :lol:


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## CH_Peter (May 16, 2002)

.... no, wait, I think I'm OK. :wink:

Has anyone taken their grievance to small claims?

http://www.courtservice.gov.uk/cms/3610.htm

Pete


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

I sent Mark this mail as I wanted it in writing (Fruity language removed as it's not the flame room). He responded positively and apparently will send my stuff this week; I'll let you know if/when it arrives. I personally feel bad that it has all come to this; I hope that Mark manages to come to a resolution which allows him to continue working with TT guys and one that keeps everyone happy, including him. It's a shame to lose a character and experienced bloke like that. Normally I wouldn't share this kind of personal correspondence, but I'm using it to illustrate that Mark CAN be reached and that it is worth staying in touch with him and being honest and up front. I can only give him credit for the response he gave me to what was obviously a very abrasive e-mail.

Mark,
Through the recent furore on the TT Forum Iâ€™ve been pretty defensive of you, asking guys to give you an opportunity to respond before laying in to you. I felt that you should have been given some slack as youâ€™d provided something valuable to the TT Forum and ownerâ€™s club, and that all of the supposition was just plain wrong until we had at least heard from you. I ignored the stuff from the Boxster guys and the stuff about you apparently not making good on promises of commission payment etc. because frankly I didnâ€™t have any experience of it. You came to my place, did a great job on my car and relieved me of Â£250.00 for the pleasure. I was happy to pay for what you did, since it was worth it to my eyes, and you gave me some great tips on washing my car. Included in that Â£250.00 was a bottle of â€œSwiftâ€ and a bottle of the cleaner you used for the engine bay, which was supposed to be sent to me. You said when you got back on the following Tuesday it would go out. That was months ago.

I still havenâ€™t got it â€" Itâ€™s not Swissol product so Iâ€™m not interested in hearing what has gone wrong with them â€" I am interested in why you havenâ€™t sent me anything.

I speak as I find, and you and I know that Iâ€™m 100% correct when I say that if I donâ€™t hassle you, youâ€™ll just forget about it; Why else would you have just disappeared off the face of the earth? You know that youâ€™ve not replied to my voicemail message and have just sent a p**s poor reply to my enquiry back in June, giving me no info whatsoever. Who the f**k is Greig? Whoever Greig is, the â€œmega deliveryâ€ didnâ€™t result in me getting my stuff! Itâ€™s not good enough Mark, it really just isnâ€™t f***ing good enough. I feel a right tosser now that Iâ€™ve told people not to be so hard on you and it looks like youâ€™ve stiffed me the same as you appear to have stiffed everyone else. Put yourself in my shoes â€" How would you feel?

So hereâ€™s the deal. Either stick me Â£15.00 in cash (Iâ€™m not taking a cheque), in the mail this week, or send me my stuff I ordered. Either is fine â€" Neither is not.

Whatever's gone on with you and the other forum guys is moot â€" I just want my stuff and no bull***t excuses. If you f***ed up or someone else screwed you over â€" Just be honest about it â€" Iâ€™m fine with that, I just want a reply.

I havenâ€™t written a mail to anyone like this in my life, but frankly with your lack of any sort of explanation or reply to people on the forum as to what has happened, and zero communication on where my cleaners are what else do you expect me to do? What would you do in my shoes? Iâ€™m not about to just write off fifteen quid because some bloke didnâ€™t have his s**t together â€" Thatâ€™s unfortunate, but itâ€™s your problem, not mine. A man of your experience in life surely knows that you can only let people down so many times before they get pissed off, which is what I am. Royally.

For what itâ€™s worth, my personal opinion on what went on was that you had probably taken on too much work (who doesnâ€™t these days?), taken a load of orders and had just got into a bit of a bind with it all. When people started backing you into a corner you did what a lot of people in that position would do and tried to hold them off, hoping it would all blow over. Someone in a jam who comes out and explains whatâ€™s gone on and asks for a bit of patience usually gets it, and you could have really saved all this aggro by just making one posting, giving the truth about the situation. Everyone on the TT forum whoâ€™s had your car done by them (bar a few whiners) obviously enjoyed your company, felt you provided a great service, did a killer job and would recommend you again. What more can you ask for? Whenever someone posted a question on waxing etc. it was ALWAYS: â€œCall the Wax Wizard â€" Heâ€™ll sort you outâ€. YOU were the #1 guy that we all looked to when it came to looking after our carsâ€™ paintwork. Now all thatâ€™s been virtually pI***d away for the sake of an e-mail. Thatâ€™s really sad and none of us are better off for it either. Who am I going to call the next time I want my car detailed? Unless I want to let some sullen, spotty youth from the local valet company loose on Â£30Kâ€™s worth of TT Iâ€™m f***ed!

Iâ€™m sure that this e-mail will p**s you off and I expect an abrasive reply â€" Why itâ€™s ME who deserves an abrasive reply when youâ€™ve b****red off with my money is beyond me but there you go. Iâ€™ve just been up front and honest with you. Please, at least show some respect for those that are waiting, and those who are confused and just stick a post on the TT forum. You may find that you get a better response than you think, if youâ€™re up front and totally honest about what has gone on.

Whatever problems you have had I genuinely hope that they all get sorted out and that things get back on an even footing for you. Iâ€™m sure that the situation isnâ€™t easy but itâ€™s not a dead loss yet â€" Thereâ€™s got to still be a chance to get it back on track if you want to.

Regards

Matthew


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Perhaps Mark (NuTTs) can use that as a template when asking about the TTOC percentage....


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

clived said:


> Perhaps Mark (NuTTs) can use that as a template when asking about the TTOC percentage....


I dunno Clive - I just told Mark what was on my mind. He seems a reasonable chap and responded accordingly. Of course, I wasn't waiting for Swissol stuff so that may complicate things but I guess I would say that pussyfooting around isn't going to get anywhere; Being straight and up front is just easier and everyone knows where they stand.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Matthew said:


> clived said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps Mark (NuTTs) can use that as a template when asking about the TTOC percentage....
> ...


Nice letter, Matthew


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

Wax Wizard was on at about lunchtime - why didn't he post something in response to this thread?

Graham


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

Love_iTT said:


> Wax Wizard was on at about lunchtime - why didn't he post something in response to this thread?
> 
> Graham


I can't answer that - Only Waxy Wiz can. The pressure on him must be immense; It's an unenviable spot to be in. He could post a message as thorough as you like but someone would still have questions for him and the discussion could be endless - COuld be the longest ever TTF thread......

I did think about whether it was right to post my letter here, but like I said - I actually think that it illustrates how Mark can be reached and that he does reply, even to rather unfreindly communication.

The truth is that I can't help but cut him some slack. I realise that this may be naive and stupid but I like him, I know his work is good and I am hoping that it all gets sorted for everyone's sake. You can only speak from experience and mine has, for the most part, been positive. I won't be di**ed around though.....


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## CH_Peter (May 16, 2002)

> Wax Wizard was on at about lunchtime - why didn't he post something in response to this thread?
> 
> Graham


I suspect, that because he's got himself in so much ****, no post is going to make anything better - probably just worse and open him up to personal attack on a pubic forum. It's product in your hand or money back that will speak volumes now.

Pete


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

CH_Peter said:


> > Wax Wizard was on at about lunchtime - why didn't he post something in response to this thread?
> >
> > Graham
> 
> ...


What kind of a Forum Pete ?? :lol:


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## jdn (Aug 26, 2002)

I wonder what is going on over on other forums. I am sure I recall Wax Wizard being on an ELise forum, a Seat Cupra forum and also a Boxter forum. I don't frequent many others at the moment - but do any others out there know whether similar issues have arisen on other public forums?

PS That's public with an *l*!


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

R6B TT said:


> What kind of a Forum Pete ?? :lol:


 :lol:

and what kind of product in your hand?

err sorry


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## CH_Peter (May 16, 2002)

Haha! Whoops! Think we'll leave that one for posterity!


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

R6B TT said:


> CH_Peter said:
> 
> 
> > > Wax Wizard was on at about lunchtime - why didn't he post something in response to this thread?
> ...


Excellent - Just spotted it! Pubic Forearm perhaps........? Nah - Too tenuous.


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

UPDATE: True to his word, Mark sent me the stuff - Arrived today. Hope the rest of you waiting find a resolution. I can only suggest approaching Mark again and being up front with him - It seems to help.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Matthew said:


> UPDATE: True to his word, Mark sent me the stuff - Arrived today. Hope the rest of you waiting find a resolution. I can only suggest approaching Mark again and being up front with him - It seems to help.


Matthew - just shows that talking to him directly will actually work.

I can't help but think he's being a complete cock-end by not coming and posting on here. It makes him REALLY look like he is hiding, and not addressing the wider "public" issue. It's obviously costing him money to put all of this right, and it looks like he's only prepared to put it right for those people who speak threaten him directly, and he ISN'T prepared to come on here and make a blanket offer...


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## dimitt (Apr 21, 2004)

Can confirm I also received my products from Mark (good stuff must admit - although that was not the issue!).

Can only re-enforce others by saying best thing to do is call the man


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

jampott said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > UPDATE: True to his word, Mark sent me the stuff - Arrived today. Hope the rest of you waiting find a resolution. I can only suggest approaching Mark again and being up front with him - It seems to help.
> ...


I've tried to put myself in his shoes - A blanket message would likely not cover all bases and could just lead to an ever continuing thread whereby discussions descended into bad tempered exchanges, with the outcome being that nothing got solved. Having said this, it doesn't help that he has apparently been on here and has not made any attempt to reply. I think that if it was something like: "My apologies to all who are waiting - To ensure your satisfaction please contact me by e-mail or 'phone directly to discuss it personally" that would probably be by far the best thing and at least would show willing. Everyone would get to say their piece, Mark could explain his side of the story and it could all be sorted. I continue to think how much of a shame this all is because Mark's own product is excellent stuff and I think that there's a market for his own brand to be sold on to a wider audience. I don't think that he NEEDS Swissol to do well, he just needs to keep his punters happy.

I agree though, that the fact he has apparently just gone mute is the most irksome thing and gives the appearance that he just doesn't care, which is probably not true.

Damnit, I have hogged this thread long enough. Good luck to all - Give the man a call and see if you can work it out.


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