# Possible DSG failure - ** 26/10 MAJOR Update - Page 12 **



## Rogue

Driving home from work today, doing 30 through the village before ours and two pheasants decide to attempt suicide by leaping from the undergrowth and into our path.
My girlfriend slammed the brakes on, we stopped just in time, but as she went to drive away, the car failed to change gear and the gear indicator on the dash was flashing on and off.
We managed to limp home, albeit the car seemed to be stuck in a gear.
When we got into our street, we tried turning the engine off to clear the problem, but upon re-starting the car it now wouldn't select any gear, so I had to get a neighbour to help push the car into my drive.

Am I looking at a failed gear box?
Car is an 04 plate and is out of warranty.

Any ideas?
I'm getting it recovered into the dealers tomorrow morning.

Rogue


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## DeanTT

Fingers crossed it could be a simple software update, this seems to sort out these kinda issues, good luck


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## Rogue

DeanTT said:


> Fingers crossed it could be a simple software update, this seems to sort out these kinda issues, good luck


I was lucky when I had my cooling fan probs that it was only a fuse that needed replaced.
If I'm lucky enough for it to only be a software update then I'm DEFINITELY going to start playing the lottery :wink:

Rogue


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## slikt

Hi mate, good luck with it and keep us posted. .


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## Motorhead

That could be the Mechatronic Control Unit generating low voltage, there is a test for this. Unfortunatly I believe these cost around Â£800 + fitting...


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## Black Knight

Similar thing happened to my friends GTI.. Car just suddenly flipped into 2nd by itself and wouldnt change to any other gear. When flipped to neutral it wouldnt select any other gear anymore, DIS flashing. Car was flatbed to dealership and they replaced the mechatronic unit.


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## Motorhead

Mines in the stealers and will have one fitted in a couple of days, just waiting for the part. It was clunking changing down to "creep" in 2nd. A software update didnt cure it, so now they`re saying it`s the mech unit..... We`ll see eh rat fans ??......


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## Black Knight

Motorhead said:


> Mines in the stealers and will have one fitted in a couple of days, just waiting for the part. It was clunking changing down to "creep" in 2nd. A software update didnt cure it, so now they`re saying it`s the mech unit..... We`ll see eh rat fans ??......


I have the same clunking(just before braking to a stop at low revs downshifting or entering creep more, whatever). 
I think that issue is also repsonsible for my timing chain already rattling at 60k miles. Each clunk probably stretches the chain little by little until the tensioners run out of slack. And now it rattles and the clunks, even minor ones slap the chain so it annoys me even more. What's interesting is that it actually sometimes manages to clunk, although not that hard when braking in neutral.

And my car is out of warranty. Timing chain replacement 1500 euros, mechatronic at least another 1000 euros. Really fun stuff eh? 
I've been driving like that for like 10k miles already. 
On top of that my steering rack has developed play.


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## BillP

I was obviously lucky because the same thing happened to me at Donnington. I had been complaining to stealer (southampton Audi) for months that there was something fundamentally wrong with DSG box.  
Initially they said nothing wrong, but after Donnington they agreed there was a fault and replaced control unit under warranty mainly because I had registered a fault while the car was still just in warranty. within 24 hours of them returning the car it failed again :x :x (I went ballistic). Initially they again said they couldn't find fault. That was untill they actually drove the car when it failed on them. :lol: They tinkered again and while returning it to me it failed yet again.  I had by this time got beyond angry. Anyway to end the saga they agreed to replace DSG under warranty (cost in excess of Â£3000) and hey presto its like a different car Horray  I personally will never have another DSG.
Best of luck
BillP


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## Rogue

BillP said:


> I was obviously lucky because the same thing happened to me at Donnington. I had been complaining to stealer (southampton Audi) for months that there was something fundamentally wrong with DSG box.
> Initially they said nothing wrong, but after Donnington they agreed there was a fault and replaced control unit under warranty mainly because I had registered a fault while the car was still just in warranty. within 24 hours of them returning the car it failed again :x :x (I went ballistic). Initially they again said they couldn't find fault. That was untill they actually drove the car when it failed on them. :lol: They tinkered again and while returning it to me it failed yet again.  I had by this time got beyond angry. Anyway to end the saga they agreed to replace DSG under warranty (cost in excess of Â£3000) and hey presto its like a different car Horray  I personally will never have another DSG.
> Best of luck
> BillP


You have to wonder why DSG is now "S-Tronic" in the Mark 2 TT.
I'm guessing it's more Audi replacing some dodgy components than "evolving" the DSG.
I also think they knew of the potential for this unit failing, and didn't want Mark 2 customers put off buying "DSG" equipped cars.

Interestingly, the car now stalls unless you rev the accelerator.

It was all going too well.
18 months of ownership with hardly any additional costs (apart from the puncture incident), now I've spent more than Â£500 on it in the last month, and it's due a service on Tuesday. :roll:

Stupid cars :lol:

Rogue


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## saint

Blame the g/f tell her she broke it!! Am sure you'll get the car you want then.

However.

Am sure from past posts etc that it's a system reset that's needed - the DSG has almost had something like a brain-freeze - it needs to be thawed out.


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## Rogue

saint said:


> Am sure from past posts etc that it's a system reset that's needed - the DSG has almost had something like a brain-freeze - it needs to be thawed out.


It's pretty shocking that that could even happen in the first place.
What if it happens again on a motorway at speed?

This is well dodgy.
I'll update once the dealer gets back to me.

Rogue


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## Typhhon

Discussed at length as some will recall (Black Knight).
Dealer replaced the mechatronic earlier this year then a few weeks back the box dropped into neutral, flashing display etc.

Despite warranty being passed dealer did a new software load for free which once again seems to give a much better response. Problem is not knowing whats good. D is now more like S and S is rather scarey (so I'm mostly in S).

My point is what defines a satisfactory DSG?
Obviously downshifting from 6 to 1 in 100m is bad as is false neutrals.


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## Motorhead

Typhhon said:


> My point is what defines a satisfactory DSG?


One that doesn`t go out of whack within 10 years.

These items are developed and tested to destruction.

They are an expensive unit, they should last the life of the vehicle......


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## cuTTsy

I have had two new DSG boxes, one on my 53 TT and another on the A3. The first kept on failing and was relayed back to the dealer three times...with various software updates in the end the dealer agreed to change the whole box.

The second one kept leaking oil, its perfect now after getting agreement to get that one changed, which was painful. When it works I think it is brilliant.

However it did make me cancel my other Audi order at the time but the alternative was well worth it!

Still think DSG is fantastic but just can't do with the hassle with the dealership.


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## Rogue

I've just had word back from the dealer that, quelle surprise, it's the Mechatronic Control Module, and it's going to cost Â£1755.09 to get it fixed.

The dealer is going to speak to Audi CS to ask for a goodwill gesture as the car is only recently out of warranty and only has 33k miles on it.
I've told the dealer I am not willing to pay ANYTHING towards the cost, as this is a common fault and shouldn't be happening on a 3 year old car with low mileage.

I'm also now stuck without a car, and am going to have to hire one.
I've told the dealer (they don't have any spare cars :roll: ) that I will also be wanting re-imbursed for the costs of hiring a car.

So, now I have to wait to hear what Audi CS say, and according to the dealer they might not be able to tell me today.........

Rogue


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## Motorhead

Rogue said:


> I've just had word back from the dealer that, quelle surprise, it's the Mechatronic Control Module, and it's going to cost Â£1755.09 to get it fixed.
> 
> The dealer is going to speak to Audi CS to ask for a goodwill gesture as the car is only recently out of warranty and only has 33k miles on it.
> I've told the dealer I am not willing to pay ANYTHING towards the cost, as this is a common fault and shouldn't be happening on a 3 year old car with low mileage.
> 
> I'm also now stuck without a car, and am going to have to hire one.
> I've told the dealer (they don't have any spare cars :roll: ) that I will also be wanting re-imbursed for the costs of hiring a car.
> 
> So, now I have to wait to hear what Audi CS say, and according to the dealer they might not be able to tell me today.........
> 
> Rogue


I refer to my previous post.

Mine was clunking, had the software update, this didnt resolve it, complained to the dealer via email and Audi UK. They had the vehicle back, they say it`s the Mech Unit they have the car I have a courtesy car and I expect the vehicle back early next week. My vehicle is similar to yours in respect of having covered 34K and is a late 2004 model. I raised the issue of the box a week before the manufacturers warranty ran out so I quess they would have had to honour any other work related to the original issue, however I do have an extended Audi warranty.

It seem there is an issue with this box, Audi should be looking at the number of enquiries dealers are getting regarding these boxes and recalling them...

Best of luck.... I`ll keep you posted with mine too.....


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## Rogue

Motorhead said:


> I refer to my previous post.
> 
> Mine was clunking, had the software update, this didnt resolve it, complained to the dealer via email and Audi UK. They had the vehicle back, they say it`s the Mech Unit they have the car I have a courtesy car and I expect the vehicle back early next week. My vehicle is similar to yours in respect of having covered 34K and is a late 2004 model. I raised the issue of the box a week before the manufacturers warranty ran out so I quess they would have had to honour any other work related to the original issue, however I do have an extended Audi warranty.
> 
> It seem there is an issue with this box, Audi should be looking at the number of enquiries dealers are getting regarding these boxes and recalling them...
> 
> Best of luck.... I`ll keep you posted with mine too.....


Yeah, I'm actually expecting to get the Mechatronic Unit replaced, then run into more problems later.
And that's me lost all faith in my car, after one year of ownership.
I was in a similar situation with my previous TT, which is why I traded it in.

I think my time as an Audi owner may be coming to an end if this isn't sorted out properly.

I found this video on YouTube of an A3 showing the same symptoms as my car. And it's an 07 plate!!!






Rogue


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## Black Knight

I'm not holding my breath for a recall as not only TTs are involved but all DSG cars. I'm hoping they'll at least do FOC replacements like with dashpods at least up to 5 years of age. And hoping they announce this globally, not just UK and other countries where the judicial system works. In Croatia noone cares about this stuff and if the decision isn't made global you can be sure Croatian dealers will play stupid.


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## Rogue

Another update.
Audi CS have offered to contribute 50% towards the cost.
I've refused it, so my dealer said they are going to speak to Warranties and try to get them to contribute towards the cost.

I explained to the Service Manager that I was worried about getting the Control Unit replaced only for it to go again and then be hit with a gearbox replacement cost, and he said that he was aware of this happening with a few other customers, and said that as long as I contribute SOMETHING to the cost, I'll be covered by warranty if it does go boobies up again.

He expects to hear back on Tuesday or Wednesday at the latest, and they can't order the part until it's sorted out and I agree to it.
So, I'm stuck without a car until then and have had to rent one.

I can't fault the dealer, as they've been really good, but Audi have left a bad taste in my mouth yet again, and I'm now contemplating selling the car once it's "fixed".

Rogue


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## Black Knight

They pay 100% but should allow you to contribute 1 pound towards it so you get warranty on the new parts.


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## Rogue

An update on events so far:

* I phoned the dealer last Friday to ask them about getting goodwill on the repair. The Service Manager said not to bother phoning Audi CS as they would do it on my behalf and would get better results.

* Audi CS made an offer of 50% towards the cost of my repair, which I refused

* I still have to hire a car (Â£30 per day) because the dealer won't supply me with a car until I give the nod for the work to be carried out. So far, I've paid Â£150 in rental fees.

* The Service Manager told me he was pretty sure that Warranties would offer the rest of the money towards my repair. He phoned me this morning to tell me that unfortunately Warranties wouldn't offer any money towards my repair, and says that perhaps I should phone Audi CS myself.....

* After phoning Audi CS, they up their offer to 60% (doesn't include VAT), and tell me that the dealer should have offered me a car anyway, and that she would speak to the Service Manager there and sort out a car for me. She promised to get back to me ASAP. She also said that she would ask the dealer to contribute towards the repair, as I was a good customer of theirs.

* 4 hours later, I chase her up to find out that:

a) The dealer refused to contribute towards the repair, saying that they were already doing the work at "warranty prices"

b) They won't be giving me a car until I give the go-ahead for the repairs.

* I asked Audi CS to tell me how much in "real terms" their 60% was, and from the total repair quoted to me by the dealer of Â£1755.09, Audi CS told me their contribution of 60% equated to Â£675.07, which left me owing Â£1080.02. Now, I don't know about you but that maths just doesn't add up, so as she put me on hold I worked out the % myself, and I get her Â£675.07 as being 38% of the total Â£1755.09.
When I ask her how her 60% contribution is almost half of what I'm going to have to pay (Â£675.07 versus Â£1080.02) she says she doesn't know, and thinks the dealer gave me a different total price.
I get her to phone the dealer back to confirm, and when she phones me back, she says my contribution would be Â£661. This means that the dealer have blatantly lied to Audi CS in telling them that they had offered to do the work for me "at warranty prices". At no point did the Service Manager mention "warranty prices" to me.

* I've told her this is still too much, and asked to escalate it higher up the chain at Audi CS, so I'm now waiting on a manager phoning me back.

* My car is currently due a service, which is Â£309, + Â£150 for DSG oil change, so as well as the money for the Control Unit, the dealer is set to make another Â£459 from me, but if they don't offer anything else towards the Control Unit replacement, I'll be getting my car serviced elsewhere.

* I've phoned the Service Manager to try and arrange a face-to-face meeting with him, but surprise surprise he hasn't bothered to return my call (again!).

If there were any doubts in my mind about not buying another Audi, they've just been wiped out.

*Update

The Customer Services Manager phoned me back and told me that they will not be budging on their offer of 60%. She said I had to expect some failures DUE TO THE AGE OF THE CAR.
I told her the car was only 3 years old, and shouldn't be having these problems, and she said "actually sir, it's 3 and a half years old". She also told me that I should have taken out the extended warranty!
So, this leaves me with the dealer's Service Manager, who hasn't been the most helpful (or truthful!) of folk, so it looks like I'm going to be hit with a Â£661 repair bill.
Good old Audi......*

Rogue


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## rballtt

Rogue said:


> An update on events so far:
> 
> * I phoned Stirling Audi last Friday to ask them about getting goodwill on the repair. The Service Manager said not to bother phoning Audi CS as they would do it on my behalf and would get better results.
> 
> * Audi CS made an offer of 50% towards the cost of my repair, which I refused
> 
> * I still have to hire a car (Â£30 per day) because Stirling Audi won't supply me with a car until I give the nod for the work to be carried out. So far, I've paid Â£150 in rental fees.
> 
> * The Service Manager told me he was pretty sure that Warranties would offer the rest of the money towards my repair. He phoned me this morning to tell me that unfortunately Warranties wouldn't offer any money towards my repair, and says that perhaps I should phone Audi CS myself.....
> 
> * After phoning Audi CS, they up their offer to 60% (doesn't include VAT), and tell me that Audi Stirling should have offered me a car anyway, and that she would speak to the Service Manager there and sort out a car for me. She promised to get back to me ASAP. She also said that she would ask Stirling Audi to contribute towards the repair, as I was a good customer of theirs.
> 
> * 4 hours later, I chase her up to find out that:
> 
> a) Stirling Audi refused to contribute towards the repair, saying that they were already doing the work at "warranty prices"
> 
> b) They won't be giving me a car until I give the go-ahead for the repairs.
> 
> * I asked Audi CS to tell me how much in "real terms" their 60% was, and from the total repair quoted to me by Stirling Audi of Â£1755.09, Audi CS told me their contribution of 60% equated to Â£675.07, which left me owing Â£1080.02. Now, I don't know about you but that maths just doesn't add up, so as she put me on hold I worked out the % myself, and I get her Â£675.07 as being 38% of the total Â£1755.09.
> When I ask her how her 60% contribution is almost half of what I'm going to have to pay (Â£675.07 versus Â£1080.02) she says she doesn't know, and thinks the dealer gave me a different total price.
> I get her to phone the dealer back to confirm, and when she phones me back, she says my contribution would be Â£661. This means that Stirling Audi have blatantly lied to Audi CS in telling them that they had offered to do the work for me "at warranty prices". At no point did the Service Manager mention "warranty prices" to me.
> 
> * I've told her this is still too much, and asked to escalate it higher up the chain at Audi CS, so I'm now waiting on a manager phoning me back.
> 
> * My car is currently due a service, which is Â£309, + Â£150 for DSG oil change, so as well as the money for the Control Unit, the dealer is set to make another Â£459 from me, but if they don't offer anything else towards the Control Unit replacement, I'll be getting my car serviced elsewhere.
> 
> * I've phoned the Service Manager to try and arrange a face-to-face meeting with him, but surprise surprise he hasn't bothered to return my call (again!).
> 
> If there were any doubts in my mind about not buying another Audi, they've just been wiped out.
> 
> *Update
> 
> The Customer Services Manager phoned me back and told me that they will not be budging on their offer of 60%. She said I had to expect some failures DUE TO THE AGE OF THE CAR.
> I told her the car was only 3 years old, and shouldn't be having these problems, and she said "actually sir, it's 3 and a half years old". She also told me that I should have taken out the extended warranty!
> So, this leaves me with Stirling Audi's Service Manager, who hasn't been the most helpful (or truthful!) of folk, so it looks like I'm going to be hit with a Â£661 repair bill.
> Good old Audi......*Rogue


Gutted for you mate! I can't believe that they won't take responsability for a failed gearbox after 3 (and a half) years old! Ludicrous!

I just pray that nothing happens to mine..

Good luck!


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## slikt

I think Watchdog needs a phone call. . big time. . this is really bad press for Audi and it will probably affect the resale of the DSG TT. . . i'm not a happy bunny seeing as i've owned mine for only a month. . :evil:


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## Rogue

slikt said:


> I think Watchdog needs a phone call. . big time. . this is really bad press for Audi and it will probably affect the resale of the DSG TT. . . i'm not a happy bunny seeing as i've owned mine for only a month. . :evil:


My sister-in-law has just bought one after my recommendations.
How silly do I feel? :?

I'm going to bite the bullet and pay the Â£661.
This is dragging on too long, and I want my car back.
I will, however, be letting the Service Manager at the dealer's know what I think of him, and will be getting my car serviced elsewhere.

Rogue


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## rballtt

Rogue said:


> slikt said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Watchdog needs a phone call. . big time. . this is really bad press for Audi and it will probably affect the resale of the DSG TT. . . i'm not a happy bunny seeing as i've owned mine for only a month. . :evil:
> 
> 
> 
> My sister-in-law has just bought one after my recommendations.
> How silly do I feel? :?
> 
> I'm going to bite the bullet and pay the Â£661.
> This is dragging on too long, and I want my car back.
> I will, however, be letting the Service Manager at Stirling Audi know what I think of him, and will be getting my car serviced elsewhere.
> 
> Rogue
Click to expand...

I would do the same to be honest cause at the end of the day, I would just want my car back too. Shame there are no idependents that could give you better service. It must really hurt seeing as your a good customer as well....shows what loyalty gets you....f*ck all


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## mighTy Tee

When they replace the Controller Unit make sure they warrant the whole gearbox is fixed for a period (not less than 6 months).

It is not always the controller which is the problem and given a few miles you may find they are saying you need a new box. I believe this is what happened to another TTF guy.


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## Motorhead

Sorry to hear about the appauling service you are experiencing.

An update on mine...

Audi called today, they have fitted the Metrotronic Control Unit and this has solved the problems related to the clunking experienced when changing down from 3 to 2 whilst creeping...

However the diagostic report now shows....... incorrect gear ratio on gear 5.

The gearbox is now going to be replaced.

This should not be happening after 33K.


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## Rogue

mighTy Tee said:


> When they replace the Controller Unit make sure they warrant the whole gearbox is fixed for a period (not less than 6 months).
> 
> It is not always the controller which is the problem and given a few miles you may find they are saying you need a new box. I believe this is what happened to another TTF guy.


Aye, good advice. The Service Manager is phoning me back at 17:30 tonight, as we've come to another "agreement" 

Basically, I told them I didn't want them to service my car and that I would be taking my business elsewhere, so in a mad flurry of calls the Service Manager phoned me to say that he never intended to charge me full price, and had already decided to do the job at "warranty price".
However, it would have been nice if he had mentioned that to me in the first place :roll:

Anyway, the position I'm now in is that he's offering me the replacement of the control module, AND my 3 year service + DSG oilchange (or it might be Haldex, I can't remember in all the excitement :lol: ) for a total of Â£900. He's also supplying me with a brand new courtesy car tomorrow (probably an A3).

The costs should be:

Â£1755.09 for the control module
Â£309 for the service
Â£150 for the oil change
------------------
Â£2214.09
------------------

So bear in mind I've already paid out Â£150 for the car rental, Â£89 for the car transporter (which I'll get back from my breakdown cover), then it's still an expensive job, but at least I feel I've actually gotten a small victory.

For all you other DSG owners out there, I'd seriously recommend purchasing extended/3rd part warranty.
I think there will be a lot more failures in the future, and I'd hate to see someone else go through the hassle and cost that I and a few others already have.

Rogue


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## Black Knight

I have sent a message to International Audi Customer Services about my issues a couple of days ago. A few days later I got a response they're investigating my case etc. Will be interesting to see what they decide.
My car is 3 years old now but with lots of miles - 68k. I started complaining about DSG(hesitance, jolting clunking on braking) though 8 months ago, a mont after I bought it, just around the 60k service and went through a number of dealers and was mostly told either "they all do that" or "we don't know much about these fancy gearboxes". My gearbox still "works" the same(very annoying), but in the meantime it seems to have probably damaged the timing chain by snatching it with gear changes causing it to rattle like a diesel and a lumpy idle due to slack varying valve timing. 
On top of that I mentioned my dashpod is failing(not FOC in croatia), my steering rack is gone, hazzard relay faulty, cooling fan gone, xenons intermittenly cutting out, head unit changing volume randomly, wipers seizing and that's about it in 9 months of ownership of an Audi certified TT. So, either the TT is a really bad quality car or the Audi certified one was the worst example I could ever possibly buy.
I'm really hoping they will offer to replace the timing chain and whatever needs replacing to get DSG working properly FOC. Even with that covered by them, the other failures are more than enough to make anyone unsatisfied, but I like the car so I could bear with that. But DSG and timing chain is really a bit too much.
Keeping fingers crossed.


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## GEM

Unbelievable short-sighted attitude from Audi.

After the Watchdog DashPod fiasco you would think the last thing Audi needs is another example of poor quality components combined with an unhelpful after sales service.

I love the look of my TT but the main reason I changed to an Audi was because I believed I would be getting a better quality car with an after sales service to match. For the price Audi charge for their cars they should not expect any major component to last less than the lifetime of the vehicle. If it doesn't last that long then they should have no hesitation in replacing it free of charge.
Their attitude is really short-sighted. If I wanted poor components and a crap after sales service then I would have bought an Alfasud.
Audi would do well to remember how long (if ever) it took Vauxhall to get back any of their credibility after their poor steel shambles caused their cars to rust badly.

My 6 months of ownership with the V6 DSG has been faultless and I've never had so many compliments about how beautiful the car looks.

BUT...before buying the TT I owned RS Clios of all models for over 15 years and *none* of them ever broke down, failed to start or needed any major component replaced. 
The only time they saw the main dealer was when they were due a service.
In those 15+ years I never once called out the breakdown service.

*I have made myself a promise* that if I have anything other than small problems with my TT then I will sell it and never again buy another Audi.
Maybe I'm lucky to be in the financial position where I can afford to do that. But even if I wasn't I would still cut my losses and sell it.
The long term loser won't be me. It will be Audi. 
*I won't let my heart rule my head. I stopped doing that when I was 18.*
No matter how much I love my TT I will not break that promise.
For the price I paid for my TT I don't expect or will accept second best.

Sorry to rant on about this but it's something I feel strongly about.

*PS...On my previous Renaultsport.co.uk forum there were representatives from Renault UK.* *They didn't censor the posts but always read them and contributed to the forum and helped organise different events for Renaultsport owners, which they also went along to. They are held in high regard by the forum members. And when any major issue came up they would step in and help sort it out whenever possible or point you in the right direction to help resolve the issue. 
Their being on the forum has never stopped the members being critical of their cars **and especially the dealers when necessary*.
*It has always surprised me that there is no Audi representative on this forum.*

John.


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## Rogue

Motorhead said:


> Sorry to hear about the appauling service you are experiencing.
> 
> An update on mine...
> 
> Audi called today, they have fitted the Metrotronic Control Unit and this has solved the problems related to the clunking experienced when changing down from 3 to 2 whilst creeping...
> 
> However the diagostic report now shows....... incorrect gear ratio on gear 5.
> 
> The gearbox is now going to be replaced.
> 
> This should not be happening after 33K.


 

Are they replacing the gearbox under warranty?

Rogue


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## Black Knight

Motorhead said:


> Sorry to hear about the appauling service you are experiencing.
> 
> An update on mine...
> 
> Audi called today, they have fitted the Metrotronic Control Unit and this has solved the problems related to the clunking experienced when changing down from 3 to 2 whilst creeping...
> 
> However the diagostic report now shows....... incorrect gear ratio on gear 5.
> 
> The gearbox is now going to be replaced.
> 
> This should not be happening after 33K.


That's ridiculous, how can the gear ratio be incorrect? The cogs shrunk?
I'm interested in your case as I have the same issue, DSG clunks and sometimes even jolts when downshifting in creep mode. 
It is also hesitant and difficult to handle at low speeds but that may be a separate issue.


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## Rogue

You're spot on, John, and your sentiments pretty much echo mine about Audi and reliability.
I asked the Customer Services Manager from Audi CS if she thought it was acceptable that an ELECTRONIC (not mechanical) part should fail after only 3 and a half years, and she replied:

"In a car with more than 3000 electronic components, you have to expect SOME to develop faults. That's why prestige vehicle companies like Audi offer you a 2 year warranty, extending to 3 years if within mileage restrictions."

I asked her how she could explain the fact that a NON-prestige marque like Hyundai could offer a *5* year warranty, and she wouldn't answer.

That's two TTs I've owned, and both had electrical problems (the first one having had 3 dashpods fitted, MAF replaced, coilpacks etc.)
I'll be voting with my money now, and told the Customer Service Manager that she's just lost a customer.

Rogue



GEM said:


> Unbelievable short-sighted attitude from Audi.
> 
> After the Watchdog DashPod fiasco you would think the last thing Audi needs is another example of poor quality components combined with an unhelpful after sales service.
> 
> I love the look of my TT but the main reason I changed to an Audi was because I believed I would be getting a better quality car with an after sales service to match. For the price Audi charge for their cars they should not expect any major component to last less than the lifetime of the vehicle. If it doesn't last that long then they should have no hesitation in replacing it free of charge.
> Their attitude is really short-sighted. If I wanted poor components and a crap after sales service then I would have bought an Alfasud.
> Audi would do well to remember how long (if ever) it took Vauxhall to get back any of their credibility after their poor steel shambles caused their cars to rust badly.
> 
> My 6 months of ownership with the V6 DSG has been faultless and I've never had so many compliments about how beautiful the car looks.
> 
> BUT...before buying the TT I owned RS Clios of all models for over 15 years and *none* of them ever broke down, failed to start or needed any major component replaced.
> The only time they saw the main dealer was when they were due a service.
> In those 15+ years I never once called out the breakdown service.
> 
> *I have made myself a promise* that if I have anything other than small problems with my TT then I will sell it and never again buy another Audi.
> Maybe I'm lucky to be in the financial position where I can afford to do that. But even if I wasn't I would still cut my losses and sell it.
> The long term loser won't be me. It will be Audi.
> I won't let my heart rule my head. I stopped doing that when I was 18.
> No matter how much I love my TT I will not break that promise.
> For the price I paid for my TT I don't expect or will accept second best.
> 
> Sorry to rant on about this but it's something I feel strongly about.
> 
> John.


----------



## GEM

Rogue said:


> You're spot on, John, and your sentiments pretty much echo mine about Audi and reliability.


Rogue, not only was I spot on...I was also born in Scotland...Barrhead.


----------



## Rogue

GEM said:


> Rogue said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're spot on, John, and your sentiments pretty much echo mine about Audi and reliability.
> 
> 
> 
> Rogue, not only was I spot on...I was also born in Scotland...Barrhead.
Click to expand...

Lol, it must be because we Scottish are tight-arses then, and don't want to part with any of our hard-earned cash :wink: 
Well, just "earned" in my case 

Rogue


----------



## GEM

Rogue said:


> GEM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rogue said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're spot on, John, and your sentiments pretty much echo mine about Audi and reliability.
> 
> 
> 
> Rogue, not only was I spot on...I was also born in Scotland...Barrhead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, it must be because we Scottish are tight-arses then, and don't want to part with any of our hard-earned cash :wink:
> Well, just "earned" in my case
> 
> Rogue
Click to expand...

No Rogue...it's because we don't suffer fools gladly :evil: and we don't let people take the pi55 out of us. (Not without getting a Glasgow kiss). 
Hope it all goes well for you.  I personally wouldn't pay a penny towards it after only covering 33k.

John.


----------



## Motorhead

Rogue said:


> Motorhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to hear about the appauling service you are experiencing.
> 
> An update on mine...
> 
> Audi called today, they have fitted the Metrotronic Control Unit and this has solved the problems related to the clunking experienced when changing down from 3 to 2 whilst creeping...
> 
> However the diagostic report now shows....... incorrect gear ratio on gear 5.
> 
> The gearbox is now going to be replaced.
> 
> This should not be happening after 33K.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are they replacing the gearbox under warranty?
> 
> Rogue
Click to expand...

Yes, the initial issues regarding clunking were raised one week before the manufacturers warranty expired. So I would assume Audi would have honoured this. However there is an Audi extended warranty on the vehicle.

Regards.


----------



## Motorhead

Black Knight said:


> Motorhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to hear about the appauling service you are experiencing.
> 
> An update on mine...
> 
> Audi called today, they have fitted the Metrotronic Control Unit and this has solved the problems related to the clunking experienced when changing down from 3 to 2 whilst creeping...
> 
> However the diagostic report now shows....... incorrect gear ratio on gear 5.
> 
> The gearbox is now going to be replaced.
> 
> This should not be happening after 33K.
> 
> 
> 
> That's ridiculous, how can the gear ratio be incorrect? The cogs shrunk?
> I'm interested in your case as I have the same issue, DSG clunks and sometimes even jolts when downshifting in creep mode.
> It is also hesitant and difficult to handle at low speeds but that may be a separate issue.
Click to expand...

That`s exactly what I said, apparantly this has happened on another S-tronic Audi, not sure which model, a diagnostic report shown incorrect gear ratio on gears 4 5 and 6 !!


----------



## Black Knight

So instead of concluding something is wrong with the electrics or that they installed something wrong they concluded that gears have somehow shrunk or grown even though the gearbox worked perfectly fine except the mechatronic causing clunking at gears 1-2-3 in creep mode?
That just sounds crazy..


----------



## Motorhead

Black Knight said:


> So instead of concluding something is wrong with the electrics or that they installed something wrong they concluded that gears have somehow shrunk or grown even though the gearbox worked perfectly fine except the mechatronic causing clunking at gears 1-2-3 in creep mode?
> That just sounds crazy..


Seems that way..... :?


----------



## Black Knight

Buh, who cares if they're paying for it, they might as well replace the entire car, heh 
It is just that when you get into a situation like that and you're out of warranty are they actually gonna tell people that their gearbox has somehow changed ratios and they should pay in excess of 5k quid to get a new one with "correct" ratios?


----------



## GEM

This is one thread I'm gonna save. Just in case.
Got a feeling myself or another DSG owner might need to refer to it in the near future. 

John.


----------



## Typhhon

ISTR if more than 10 people write to one of the consumer shows then it tends to get aired.

My experience is that the dealer has been great BUT I did buy a warranty (online) just because of the DSG issue.

My BMW dealer was good until their warranty ran out then cr*p with a capital C. Even when I came to sell they kept us waiitng for 6 hours and still never made a trade in offer on a Z4. The car (5 series) however never let me down, shed bits like crazy but always got me home right up to 220K miles and its still running locally.

I fear the TT will not make the same age but then it was a 'short term' buy.

I understand that the DSG box has two critical issues the mechatronic unit that reportedly was 'upgraded' something anyone with part number data could check in early 2004. Second is the shaft bearings which is similar to normal boxes just quality control against luck.

Of 100% returned boxes some 90% were reported fine. Hence Audi allowed dealers to repair the boxes on site e.g. fix the 10% and save a fortune in shipping.

Now what is needed is a Wak style fit a new mechatronic controller guide. I have no idea what special VAG tools are needed but having seen what some forum people can do probably not that impossible?

Next is a download software patch for the V8.1.4.1 software ( I think thats the latest version but I don't know...).

Now I learn that the TT shop modified a DSG to make it run at a lower pressure so someone 'friendly?' has some insight into its workings.

Anyone have a dead box to try it on, have small garage and beer...........


----------



## Motorhead

Typhhon said:


> Of 100% returned boxes some 90% were reported fine. Hence Audi allowed dealers to repair the boxes on site e.g. fix the 10% and save a fortune in shipping.


Could you please advise as to where you collected this information..


----------



## Typhhon

Two visit to Audi at Ingelstadt was I was working close by.
Second time a took a Luftwaffe mate as a 'translator'

Next to the coffee bar is an information desk, got nowhere the first time but it seems the girls like a guy in uniform so the second visit got someone in 'engineering'. He claims the % data was already published on a US VAG discussion but I have not found it yet. Generally thinks they are getting a bad press.

Audi HQ customer services will make a face to face appointment with 'industry related representatives' but single people will be referred to their dealer or local CS.

You can find more from the guys in the museum desk who have the staff directory for anyone doing 'valid research'. They speak any EU language.

The failure types came from a ex-tech at Audi Southampton verified by a ex-sales guy from BMW who was given 'some' data to help sell the Z4's.

The software code could as stated be wrong as it was read upside down and might not have been my service sheet.

The DSG in a tuned TT was from Fast Car mag.

Garage is small as I can't open the TT door......


----------



## Typhhon

From Audi World (US)

1. Lucky first few 3.2 owners: the first 150 or so US-spec TT 3.2's made it on this side of the pond with the same TCM as the Euro-spec TCM. Therefore, the Launch Control feature was enabled as it was in the code and nobody touched it. I actually test-drove the first TT that made it to California, and even though I originally thought LC was disabled, it was actually there and working like a charm. Too bad I wanted to special-order mine..

2. Port hold: Sometime in late 2003, Audi of America imposed a port hold on all 3.2 TT's as a "defect" was found with the DSG. What truly happened is not confirmed by anyone, but we believe the port hold was mainly created to disable the Launch Control in all US-bound 3.2 TT's. From that point on, all US-spec 3.2's had the Launch Control program disabled as the TCM is completely different - more on this later.

3. DSG Recall: sometime in early 2004, there was a recall on some early 3.2 VIN's as they found out there was a *real* defect with the DSG. Even though the rumor was that this recall was created as an excuse to disable Launch Control on those early 150 or so cars that "slipped through", there was actually a problem with the way the early DSG's were built: a seal was installed incorrectly causing the DSG to get stuck in a gear or not engage at all. This was also experienced in Europe, so we know that this recall was legit. *However* in replacing the problematic DSG's, Audi of America took this opportunity to install completely new TCM's along with the DSG itself - hence disabling Launch Control!

4. More than a code change: Beyond a simple reflashing of the DSG's TCM to disable the Launch Control program, Audi has created an entirely new TCM controller for US-bound 3.2's. This new TCM doesn't even have the capability of getting reflashed with the Launch Control program, because the code is completely missing. I had a hard time swallowing that, being a software engineer and such, but HPA worked long hours with Germany to find out that the US-spec TCM simply cannot take the LC program at all. What HPA ended up doing for my install is order a Euro-spec TCM overnight to complete the FT400 install, as they had promised me LC with the kit. The most painful part is that the TCM is encased inside the DSG so they had to drain the oil from the DSG, take it completely apart, remove the US-spec TCM and replace it with the Euro-spec TCM.

5. Paddle circuits too! Beyond the TCM being completely new for the US, the steering wheel was also completely rewired with a 4-wire harness, vs a 2-wire harness in European 3.2's. Indeed, the paddle circuits are completely different in that the US-spec ones are simply an on/off setup (short to gound), whereas the Euro-spec ones are in the same circuit loop with different resistors to act in different functions - more on this below. So HPA had to tear the steering wheel apart to remove the paddle circuit boards, solder some resistors on them and only use 2 of the 4 wires coming from the TCM. Wish I had kept those R32 aluminum paddle's circuit boards!

6. Manual Mode not acting like one: The DSG behavior was even tweaked differently in these new TCM's. In Manual Mode, the transmission would shift by itself just before hitting redline. Everyone who reviewed the DSG complained that this Manual mode was really not manual at all as it was *automatically* shifting for you before redline! This can be particularly annoying on the track where you want to hold a gear on the apex of a corner.. When HPA replaced the TCM in my DSG, they also increased the redline to 7150 RPM. The beauty of the Euro-spec TCM is that now, Manual mode is truly Manual as the DSG will hold a gear around 7000 RPM until you upshift, and not upshift *for you*.

7. Manual Over-ride: One other difference to the US-spec TCM is that, when either in Drive or Sport mode, the driver can always take over the shifting action manually with the paddles *however* this over-ride times out after 15 seconds or so. In the Euro-spec TCM, the over-ride does NOT timeout after 15 seconds, but keeps you in Manual mode *until you hold the right paddle for a couple of seconds!!!* So now I'm kicking myself for "erasing" the /OFF from my right paddle... oh well.


----------



## Rogue

Some excellent info there, Typhhon 8) 
I think I'll print that off to show to the dealer tomorrow.

I mentioned to him tonight about ensuring my gearbox was covered under the warranty of the new Control Module, and he said he didn't think it would be, and would have to speak to Audi UK......

Rogue


----------



## rballtt

Well after reading all this I have just logged onto Warranties Direct and bought a policy with extra cover on the DSG gearbox! :?


----------



## WAZ-TT

rballtt said:


> Well after reading all this I have just logged onto Warranties Direct and bought a policy with extra cover on the DSG gearbox! :?


BOY ARE YOU IN FOR A SHOCK IF IT EVER COMES TO CLAIMING!!!! 

Haven't you read the forum on their rep yet???? :?


----------



## rballtt

WAZ-TT said:


> rballtt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well after reading all this I have just logged onto Warranties Direct and bought a policy with extra cover on the DSG gearbox! :?
> 
> 
> 
> BOY ARE YOU IN FOR A SHOCK IF IT EVER COMES TO CLAIMING!!!!
> 
> Haven't you read the forum on their rep yet???? :?
Click to expand...

Do tell....it's only monthly so I can cancel!


----------



## Black Knight

Typhhon said:


> From Audi World (US)
> 
> 1. Lucky first few 3.2 owners: the first 150 or so US-spec TT 3.2's made it on this side of the pond with the same TCM as the Euro-spec TCM. Therefore, the Launch Control feature was enabled as it was in the code and nobody touched it. I actually test-drove the first TT that made it to California, and even though I originally thought LC was disabled, it was actually there and working like a charm. Too bad I wanted to special-order mine..
> 
> 2. Port hold: Sometime in late 2003, Audi of America imposed a port hold on all 3.2 TT's as a "defect" was found with the DSG. What truly happened is not confirmed by anyone, but we believe the port hold was mainly created to disable the Launch Control in all US-bound 3.2 TT's. From that point on, all US-spec 3.2's had the Launch Control program disabled as the TCM is completely different - more on this later.
> 
> 3. DSG Recall: sometime in early 2004, there was a recall on some early 3.2 VIN's as they found out there was a *real* defect with the DSG. Even though the rumor was that this recall was created as an excuse to disable Launch Control on those early 150 or so cars that "slipped through", there was actually a problem with the way the early DSG's were built: a seal was installed incorrectly causing the DSG to get stuck in a gear or not engage at all. This was also experienced in Europe, so we know that this recall was legit. *However* in replacing the problematic DSG's, Audi of America took this opportunity to install completely new TCM's along with the DSG itself - hence disabling Launch Control!
> 
> 4. More than a code change: Beyond a simple reflashing of the DSG's TCM to disable the Launch Control program, Audi has created an entirely new TCM controller for US-bound 3.2's. This new TCM doesn't even have the capability of getting reflashed with the Launch Control program, because the code is completely missing. I had a hard time swallowing that, being a software engineer and such, but HPA worked long hours with Germany to find out that the US-spec TCM simply cannot take the LC program at all. What HPA ended up doing for my install is order a Euro-spec TCM overnight to complete the FT400 install, as they had promised me LC with the kit. The most painful part is that the TCM is encased inside the DSG so they had to drain the oil from the DSG, take it completely apart, remove the US-spec TCM and replace it with the Euro-spec TCM.
> 
> 5. Paddle circuits too! Beyond the TCM being completely new for the US, the steering wheel was also completely rewired with a 4-wire harness, vs a 2-wire harness in European 3.2's. Indeed, the paddle circuits are completely different in that the US-spec ones are simply an on/off setup (short to gound), whereas the Euro-spec ones are in the same circuit loop with different resistors to act in different functions - more on this below. So HPA had to tear the steering wheel apart to remove the paddle circuit boards, solder some resistors on them and only use 2 of the 4 wires coming from the TCM. Wish I had kept those R32 aluminum paddle's circuit boards!
> 
> 6. Manual Mode not acting like one: The DSG behavior was even tweaked differently in these new TCM's. In Manual Mode, the transmission would shift by itself just before hitting redline. Everyone who reviewed the DSG complained that this Manual mode was really not manual at all as it was *automatically* shifting for you before redline! This can be particularly annoying on the track where you want to hold a gear on the apex of a corner.. When HPA replaced the TCM in my DSG, they also increased the redline to 7150 RPM. The beauty of the Euro-spec TCM is that now, Manual mode is truly Manual as the DSG will hold a gear around 7000 RPM until you upshift, and not upshift *for you*.
> 
> 7. Manual Over-ride: One other difference to the US-spec TCM is that, when either in Drive or Sport mode, the driver can always take over the shifting action manually with the paddles *however* this over-ride times out after 15 seconds or so. In the Euro-spec TCM, the over-ride does NOT timeout after 15 seconds, but keeps you in Manual mode *until you hold the right paddle for a couple of seconds!!!* So now I'm kicking myself for "erasing" the /OFF from my right paddle... oh well.


I read all that long ago, and don't really see in what way it relates to this situation?
The americans made a fuss about not getting launch control. Who cares. I never use it, it works like crap anyway, delayed.
And dunno what "non-US bound DSGs" the author "reviewed", maybe some beta versions? Because all DSGs I drove shift automaticaly at red line in any mode, even manual.. And all of them also revert back to D mode 15 seconds after a manual paddle click or when it is forced to shift(too low or too high rpms).


----------



## Black Knight

I received a phone call from a local Audi representative in Croatia. Asked me a couple of questions and then started the expected disclaimers. Basicly, he pointed out that I bought a used TT with 82t km on the clock and God knows how it was driven before and what did I expect. 
Naturally, I said I expected the gearbox not to fail on a 2 year old car and that "how it was driven" is a stupid line because even if I was the original owner they still wouldn't know how it was driven because it's not them driving it. 
Facts are, the car was regularly serviced at audi, bought from an audi dealer with an audi certificate that it is in good condition by audi standards etc etc. He got annoyed and basicly said to complain to audi germany or the german audi dealer where i bought the car. I responded that I did complain to Audi international so they can work out who will handle my case but obviously they forwarded the issue to the local representative who doesnt feel at all like acting on my behalf.

So, I sent another long message to Audi AG, told them about the conversation and that i dont want croatian representatives involved as they will not even consider my claim even though in other countries my claim would be at least considered. I dont really feel like listening to some guy telling me that I should have expected the gearbox to fail at 90t km and that is normal, and that 90t km is high mileage for an audi. if that is their stand they should advertise the cars as such and make the gearbox a service item and see how many people would then buy a car whose 90tkm service includes an 8 thousand euro gearbox change.


----------



## Rogue

The guy you spoke to didn't used to work for Stirling Audi, did he? 

What a crock of sh|t.
It's funny how even the manager from Audi CS I spoke to yesterday went on about their "prestige marque", yet we've got more than a couple of DSG cars here (that we know of!) with sub-standard components which are leaving their owners with big bills to pay, and Audi insist that it's just to be expected because of mileage/age.

Rogue



Black Knight said:


> I received a phone call from a local Audi representative in Croatia. Asked me a couple of questions and then started the expected disclaimers. Basicly, he pointed out that I bought a used TT with 82t km on the clock and God knows how it was driven before and what did I expect.
> Naturally, I said I expected the gearbox not to fail on a 2 year old car and that "how it was driven" is a stupid line because even if I was the original owner they still wouldn't know how it was driven because it's not them driving it.
> Facts are, the car was regularly serviced at audi, bought from an audi dealer with an audi certificate that it is in good condition by audi standards etc etc. He got annoyed and basicly said to complain to audi germany or the german audi dealer where i bought the car. I responded that I did complain to Audi international so they can work out who will handle my case but obviously they forwarded the issue to the local representative who doesnt feel at all like acting on my behalf.
> 
> So, I sent another long message to Audi AG, told them about the conversation and that i dont want croatian representatives involved as they will not even consider my claim even though in other countries my claim would be at least considered. I dont really feel like listening to some guy telling me that I should have expected the gearbox to fail at 90t km and that is normal, and that 90t km is high mileage for an audi. if that is their stand they should advertise the cars as such and make the gearbox a service item and see how many people would then buy a car whose 90tkm service includes an 8 thousand euro gearbox change.


----------



## Black Knight

Rogue said:


> The guy you spoke to didn't used to work for Stirling Audi, did he?
> 
> What a crock of sh|t.
> It's funny how even the manager from Audi CS I spoke to yesterday went on about their "prestige marque", yet we've got more than a couple of DSG cars here (that we know of!) with sub-standard components which are leaving their owners with big bills to pay, and Audi insist that it's just to be expected because of mileage/age.
> 
> Rogue


I know two people personaly whose DSG boxes failed within the 1st(!!!!!) year from new. And I know three people in total with DSG boxes, besides myself and mine is failing too. The third person still hasn't had the car long enough to have it fail 
So, anyway, that's a really apalling percentage. How many people on this forum have not had DSG gearboxes fail? Even those have usually had issues and did software updates but mostly they just accepted to live with it even though they know DSG on other cars for some reason works better.


----------



## slikt

We need to get in touch with Watchdog. . how and what is the best way to bring this to their attention, Audi would not want this made public i'm sure. . If we all do this together, i'm sure we can get something sorted. . . "Unity is strength". .!!


----------



## Black Knight

It's not just Audi, it's the entire VAG range of cars.

They should by all means make a decision to honour their DSG testing guinea pig customers by covering the cost of DSG failures up to at least 5 years. 
But this would mean a serious amount of profit loss for the VAG group. TT dashpods are a lot cheaper and they're only on the TTs. DSG gearboxes are now being installed in almost the entire VAG range of cars, that a huge number and a huge loss. I'm sure Audi and VAG will not accept their responsibility on this one even though it may cost them a fraction of their reputation.


----------



## Rogue

slikt said:


> We need to get in touch with Watchdog. . how and what is the best way to bring this to their attention, Audi would not want this made public i'm sure. . If we all do this together, i'm sure we can get something sorted. . . "Unity is strength". .!!


We basically need everyone on this forum who has had DSG failures to log it on the Watchdog website.
It's also worth trying to get other clubs (A3 etc.) to do the same.
I guess if we're going to take it forward we might as well do it officially.

I presume the "Steptronic" in the Mark II TT doesn't count, as it's not called DSG?

Rogue


----------



## Black Knight

S-tronic is the same gearbox. Audi have probably actually renamed it so people don't connect it to original DSG breakdowns.

These gearboxes are now basicly available in all VAG cars with powerplants that DSG can handle. You can order DSG in a VW Caddy for god sakes...


----------



## Rogue

Funnily enough, I said something similar (about the reason they re-named it) in either this post or one of my other recent ones.

I guess we must just be cynics....... :wink:

If people can list the makes/models of cars that could have DSG fitted, I don't mind looking for their forums and making a post about getting people to contact Watchdog.

Cars we know of are:

========
Audi TT 3.2
Audi TT (either the 180 or 190 had DSG) as a limited release, IIRC.
Audi TT Mk II
Audi A3
Audi A5
Audi A6
VW R32
VW Golf
VW Golf Plus
VW Touran
VW Passat
VW Eos
VW Jetta/Bora
VW Caddy
Seat Altea
Seat Toledo
Seat Leon
Skoda Octavia
========

Rogue



Black Knight said:


> S-tronic is the same gearbox. Audi have probably actually renamed it so people don't connect it to original DSG breakdowns.
> 
> These gearboxes are now basicly available in all VAG cars with powerplants that DSG can handle. You can order DSG in a VW Caddy for god sakes...


----------



## Black Knight

AFAIK:

VW: Golf, Golf Plus, Touran, Passat, Eos, Golf, Jetta/Bora, Caddy
Seat: Altea, Toledo, Leon
Skoda: Octavia
Audi: TT mk1 & mk2, A3, A5, A6

DSG is mated to 1.4 TSI, 1.9TDI, 2.0 TDI, 2.0T FSI, 3.2 V6, 3.2 V6 FSI engines if available with the above listed cars.


----------



## Rogue

Black Knight said:


> AFAIK:
> 
> VW: Golf, Golf Plus, Touran, Passat, Eos, Golf, Jetta/Bora, Caddy
> Seat: Altea, Toledo, Leon
> Skoda: Octavia
> Audi: TT mk1 & mk2, A3, A5, A6
> 
> DSG is mated to 1.4 TSI, 1.9TDI, 2.0 TDI, 2.0T FSI, 3.2 V6, 3.2 V6 FSI engines if available with the above listed cars.


Cheers,

I've now added those to my list in my previous post.

Rogue


----------



## Rogue

Ok, here's what I propose posting to the various other VAG-related forums.
Comments?

=========================================
Hi everyone.

A group of us at the UK TT Forum (www.********.co.uk) have been having problems with our DSG.
One of the most common faults seems to be with the Mechatronic Control Module failing in the cars.
Symptoms of this include the car not being able to select any gears, or sticking in a particular gear.
A lucky few have had them replaced under warranty, but some have also then needed their gearboxes replaced at a later date.

You can watch a video of an 07 A3 experiencing the DSG problem here:






I myself am currently in the process of forking out Â£661 towards the cost of my replacement control module, due to me finally getting Audi UK to contribute 60% towards the repair as a goodwill gesture, and my dealer doing the repair at â€œwarranty priceâ€ (i.e. no VAT).
The normal dealer cost for parts and fitting is Â£1755.09
Incidentally, the cost of replacing the gearbox is approx. Â£5,000.

My fault occurred when doing an emergency stop from 30mph to avoid hitting two pheasants who decided to wander on to the road. The car lost all power and wouldnâ€™t drive as it couldnâ€™t select a gear.
If this had happened on a motorway, I could have been involved in a serious accident.

My car is an 04 plate, which is now 3 and a half years old, and has only covered 33,000 miles
According to Audi UK, my car is â€œoldâ€ and I should expect some electronic failures.
I paid Â£23,000 for my car, and have owned it for just over a year.
I donâ€™t see why I should have to pay for what is obviously a defective electronic part that should last the life of the car.

Hundreds of TT owners have had problems with dashpods in older cars, which Audi were charging Â£700 to replace. A large number of the TT Forum member-base logged complaints with Watchdog, and we were successful in getting Audi to admit the parts were inadequate and to re-imburse those who had already had to pay for a new dashpod, as well as offering to replace dashpod failures free of charge in cars up to 5 years old.

We feel that there is a similar problem brewing with the DSG equipment that has been used not only in our TTs, but in a large number of cars across the VAG range.

If you have had a DSG related problem and have been made to pay for repairs, can you please log details of your problem with Watchdog on the following link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/tv_and_ra ... ndex.shtml

The more people who register, the better chance we have of getting our money back and getting Audi to admit there is a problem with their DSG boxes.

If you have had a DSG related problem repaired FOC under warranty, Iâ€™d really appreciate it if you took the time to post about it to this thread on the TT Forum:

http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... highlight=

I will be posting this thread on various VAG related forums, and would really appreciate any help anyone can offer to help spread the word.

Thanks for reading.
Rogue
(********.co.uk)


----------



## Black Knight

Well, the main problem is, most other DSG cars are still within warranty.

So, it would be ideal if those who've had their DSG replaced under warranty to also report it to watchdog. Some people have had 2-3 gearboxes replaced under warranty. Audi has paid for these replacements obviously but the point is in proving that the breakdown rate is severe, and that the DSG is by far the most unreliable gearbox in the history of auto making and not to mention a potential road safety hazard. This leaves little room for Audi to claim it is expected for some components to fail after 50-100k miles because obviously they have been failing randomly and quite often throughout the warranty periods which obviously leaves bitter taste in the mouth of the owners as to what will happen if these 2-6k pound failures happen aftewards and how will they be able to sell a car that is known to be a ticking time bomb.
Also, I have seen so many cases where the DSG died within the first 1000 miles and usually resulted in buyers rejecting the car. These cases should also be reported to watchdog.

Mercedes had a similar situation with an auto gearbox on their E-class I think and have soon afterwards issued a recall which cost them greatly. I have actually witnessed one not being able to upshift during an overtaking maneouver which almost led to a high speed accident.

Audi will however probably not issue a recall because they haven't fixed the problem. The new DSG boxes seem to be just as unreliable so there's no point in replacing them unless they fail, just like with dashpods, the new ones are still just as prone to failures it seems.

P.S. Infact, if Audi offers to replace my gearbox I will push that they replace it with a manual.


----------



## Rogue

The only problem I could see there is that Watchdog might not be interested in people who have had their DSG problems fixed under warranty.
They'd probably be more interested in people who had to pay for the repairs themselves.

Rogue



Black Knight said:


> Well, the main problem is, most other DSG cars are still within warranty.
> 
> So, it would be ideal if those who've had their DSG replaced under warranty to also report it to watchdog. Some people have had 2-3 gearboxes replaced under warranty. Audi has paid for these replacements obviously but the point is in proving that the breakdown rate is severe, and that the DSG is by far the most unreliable gearbox in the history of auto making and not to mention a potential road safety hazard. This leaves little room for Audi to claim it is expected for some components to fail after 50-100k miles because obviously they have been failing randomly and quite often throughout the warranty periods which obviously leaves bitter taste in the mouth of the owners as to what will happen if these 2-6k pound failures happen aftewards and how will they be able to sell a car that is known to be a ticking time bomb.
> Also, I have seen so many cases where the DSG died within the first 1000 miles and usually resulted in buyers rejecting the car. These cases should also be reported to watchdog.
> 
> Mercedes had a similar situation with an auto gearbox on their E-class I think and have soon afterwards issued a recall which cost them greatly. I have actually witnessed one not being able to upshift during an overtaking maneouver which almost led to a high speed accident.
> 
> Audi will however probably not issue a recall because they haven't fixed the problem. The new DSG boxes seem to be just as unreliable so there's no point in replacing them unless they fail, just like with dashpods, the new ones are still just as prone to failures it seems.
> 
> P.S. Infact, if Audi offers to replace my gearbox I will push that they replace it with a manual.


----------



## Black Knight

Rogue said:


> The only problem I could see there is that Watchdog might not be interested in people who have had their DSG problems fixed under warranty.
> They'd probably be more interested in people who had to pay for the repairs themselves.
> 
> Rogue


Noone will pay for the repairs anyway, you may find 1 or 2 people which I fear will not be enough for watchdog and might be regarded as a "fluke" or "lemons" or people that abused the car.
Unless they're backed up by a hundred people who've had it done under warranty to prove it is not a fluke, it is not from abuse and that the components are underdeveloped or undermanufactured and have been failing at a severe rate since new.
And if any of us actually sells their kidney for a gearbox replacement we'll be paying for a gearbox that will most probably fail again in the next 2-3 years.

Do you know anyone willing to fork out 5k quid just like that to replace a gearbox that failed with no reason or abuse? People are already buying aftermarket warranties, anything, just so they don't get stuck with that bill.


----------



## GEM

Black Knight said:


> Rogue said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only problem I could see there is that Watchdog might not be interested in people who have had their DSG problems fixed under warranty.
> They'd probably be more interested in people who had to pay for the repairs themselves.
> 
> Rogue
> 
> 
> 
> Noone will pay for the repairs anyway, you may find 1 or 2 people which I fear will not be enough for watchdog and might be regarded as a "fluke" or "lemons" or people that abused the car.
> Unless they're backed up by a hundred people who've had it done under warranty to prove it is not a fluke, it is not from abuse and that the components are underdeveloped or undermanufactured and have been failing at a severe rate since new.
> And if any of us actually sells their kidney for a gearbox replacement we'll be paying for a gearbox that will most probably fail again in the next 2-3 years.
> 
> Do you know anyone willing to fork out 5k quid just like that to replace a gearbox that failed with no reason or abuse? People are already buying aftermarket warranties, anything, just so they don't get stuck with that bill.
Click to expand...

I fully agree with Black Knight.
The important thing is to find out what the overall failure rate on the DSG is. 
Whether it was done under warranty, part paid for or fully paid for by the customer is irrelevent.
If you don't include the warranty repairs/replacements then you'll never have the true figure.
We need to show that a high cost component used by VAG has a design/construction/manufacturing fault.

John.


----------



## Rogue

Ok, here's version 1.1:

========================
Hi everyone.

A group of us at the UK TT Forum (www.********.co.uk) have been having problems with our DSG. 
One of the most common faults seems to be with the Mechatronic Control Module failing in the cars. 
Symptoms of this include the car not being able to select any gears, or sticking in a particular gear. 
A lucky few have had them replaced under warranty, but some have also then needed their gearboxes replaced at a later date.

You can watch a video of an 07 A3 experiencing the DSG problem here:






I myself am currently in the process of forking out Â£661 towards the cost of my replacement control module, due to me finally getting Audi UK to contribute 60% towards the repair as a goodwill gesture, and my dealer doing the repair at â€œwarranty priceâ€ (i.e. no VAT). 
The normal dealer cost for parts and fitting is Â£1755.09 
Incidentally, the cost of replacing the gearbox is approx. Â£5,000.

My fault occurred when doing an emergency stop from 30mph to avoid hitting two pheasants who decided to wander on to the road. The car lost all power and wouldnâ€™t drive as it couldnâ€™t select a gear. 
If this had happened on a motorway, I could have been involved in a serious accident.

My car is an 04 plate, which is now 3 and a half years old, and has only covered 33,000 miles 
According to Audi UK, my car is â€œoldâ€ and I should expect some electronic failures. 
I paid Â£23,000 for my car, and have owned it for just over a year. 
I donâ€™t see why I should have to pay for what is obviously a defective electronic part that should last the life of the car.

Hundreds of TT owners have had problems with dashpods in older cars, which Audi were charging Â£700 to replace. A large number of the TT Forum member-base logged complaints with Watchdog, and we were successful in getting Audi to admit the parts were inadequate and to re-imburse those who had already had to pay for a new dashpod, as well as offering to replace dashpod failures free of charge in cars up to 5 years old.

We feel that there is a similar problem brewing with the DSG equipment that has been used not only in our TTs, but in a large number of cars across the VAG range.

*
If you have had a DSG related problem and have been made to pay for repairs, can you please log details of your problem with Watchdog on the link below.
Similarly, if you have had DSG problems which have been replaced under warranty, can you also please log details of your problem with Watchdog, letting them know that you are unhappy about the inconvenience this has caused, and are worried about the gearbox failing again in the near future.*

http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/tv_and_ra ... ndex.shtml

The more people who register, the better chance we have of getting our money back and getting Audi to admit there is a problem with their DSG boxes.

I will post updates on any progress made to the following thread on the UK TT Forum:

http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... highlight=

I will be posting this thread on various VAG related forums, and would really appreciate any help anyone can offer to help spread the word.

Thanks for reading. 
Rogue 
(********.co.uk)


----------



## GEM

Excellent Rogue. 
Your efforts are well appreciated. 

Thanks,
John.


----------



## Black Knight

[smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Yes, I too appreciate the effort even though even if you do get Audi UK again on watchdog to back down I will probably not get anything out of it as I live in Croatia where they're still denying the dashpod issue  But still, I will be very happy if this comes true..


----------



## Markus WellBelly MD

Excellent job Rogue. 
Very well worded as well. I bought my 3.2 last week (3 1/2 years old) and would be gutted with such an expensive repair.

Thanks for taking this on.

Mark


----------



## Rogue

Well, so far I've made posts to the following forums and sub-forums:

http://www.audifans.net

A3 forum
TT Forum
A5
A6

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk

Golf - Jetta - Vento â€" Bora area
Eos
Passat
Touran
Seat Altea
Seat Leon
Seat Toledo

http://www.audi-forums.com/

A3
A6
TT
Golf & Jetta

http://uk-mkivs.net

MKV (MK5) Golf & Jetta Discussion
MK5 - Clutch and Gearbox
Other VW Group Cars

http://www.clubgti.com

Technical Forums > Transmission
Audi/Seat/Skoda Chat

If anyone can think of any other forums, please let me know and I'll post the message there too.

Rogue


----------



## rballtt

http://www.tyresmoke.net is quite a popular one amongst the VAG crowd..


----------



## Rogue

rballtt said:


> http://www.tyresmoke.net is quite a popular one amongst the VAG crowd..


Thank you. 8) 
I'll make a post there too.

Rogue


----------



## Black Knight

I guess the forums have to be UK ones?


----------



## Rogue

Black Knight said:


> I guess the forums have to be UK ones?


A few of the international forums I've found have UK members too, so maybe it's worthwhile just posting to as many as possible?
And it might get some of our friends in other countries to bring up the problem with their dealers/consumer shows too, which will all help to pile the pressure on Audi. 

Rogue


----------



## Guest

Good work Rogue.
Mine had to be replaced on my mk1 3.2, luckily under warranty.
I'd have been more than pissed if i was in your shoes though.
However, mine had only 22k on the clock when it went.


----------



## Rogue

DUO3 NAN said:


> Good work Rogue.
> Mine had to be replaced on my mk1 3.2, luckily under warranty.
> I'd have been more than pissed if i was in your shoes though.
> However, mine had only 22k on the clock when it went.


Cheers.
Any chance you could take 5 minutes out to send some details about it to Watchdog?
Every contribution will help. 8)

Rogue


----------



## Guest

Okeedoke, every little helps.


----------



## Rogue

DUO3 NAN said:


> Okeedoke, every little helps.


Thank you. 

Rogue


----------



## slikt

Rogue. . . Your a star. . . :lol:


----------



## Motorhead

Nice one Roguey Boy..


----------



## GEM

*Edit*...Rogue you're a Superstar... 

John.


----------



## Motorhead

GEM said:


> *Edit*...Rogue you're a Superstar...
> 
> John.


You`re just trying to get your posts up now eh ?? :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## GEM

Motorhead said:


> GEM said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Edit*...Rogue you're a Superstar...
> 
> John.
> 
> 
> 
> You`re just trying to get your posts up now eh ?? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...

I've been watching and learning from 'The Master Posters'. :wink: :wink:


----------



## BillP

Rogue Excellent job. As posted earlier I had trouble with my box for 6 months with the dealer fobbing me off with "can't find any faults" that was untill after TTOC 007 when he eventually admitted a fault. But it was only after it failed twice while in their possession did they agree that the DSG needed replacing. Only because I had been persistently complaining and ensuring that they recorded the complaints while under warranty did they reluctanly agree to carry out the work under warranty. I ended up paying them Â£130.00 as my contribution just to get the car back after 6 weeks in their care.

I have posted on the watchdog site and would encourage anyone with DSG problems to do the same

Cheers

BillP


----------



## digimeisTTer

Rogue said:


> If anyone can think of any other forums, please let me know and I'll post the message there too.


http://www.audi-sport.net

Edit: done it for ya Rogue - sorry to hear of this :?

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?p=425200#post425200


----------



## Rogue

Cheers matey 8)

Rogue



digimeisTTer said:


> Rogue said:
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone can think of any other forums, please let me know and I'll post the message there too.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.audi-sport.net
> 
> Edit: done it for ya Rogue - sorry to hear of this :?
> 
> http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?p=425200#post425200
Click to expand...


----------



## Guest

Posted mine off as requested.


----------



## dommorton

Good work peeps. VAG shouldn't be getting away with this on their flagship fancy pants gearbox.


----------



## Rogue

DUO3 NAN said:


> Posted mine off as requested.


Cheers 8)

I got mine off today after spending ages getting it under 2000 characters.
Stupid verboseness 

Rogue


----------



## Markus WellBelly MD

Apart from instances where the car wouldn't go into gear at all.
Are there any early warning signs of trouble with the dsg?
Should I be looking out for anything?


----------



## Black Knight

Markus WellBelly MD said:


> Apart from instances where the car wouldn't go into gear at all.
> Are there any early warning signs of trouble with the dsg?
> Should I be looking out for anything?


Well Motorheads and mines DSG intermittently clunks and jolts when downshifting while entering creep mode(when braking to a stop). 
Mine(can't speak for him) also intermittently has trouble with low speed maneuvers(parking, climbing curbs) and smoothly taking off from standstill(this seems to be a very common problem and probably not related to the clunking). This is not a warning sign that it will not be able to select a gear but simply seems like a different kind of failure. As my gearbox actually manages to work properly from time to time and also works great under heavy load, obviously nothing internal to the gearbox has been damaged and the problem is probably the mechatronic module, a sticky valve or bad contacts or something. 
On a side note, I've been driving like this for 8 months now and it has perhaps gotten only mildly worse regarding the gearbox, but I am also conviced that the jolting and clunking has caused my timing chain premature wear as the gearbox jolts pull and snatch the timing chain. As now the timing chain is rattleing as the slack is no more compensated by the tensioners I can actually hear it getting snatched/slapped by the gearbox jolts. So, even though the gearbox still works the same, the damage done by it to the timing chain is again very expensive and without replacing the gearbox or mechatronic module I worry that a new timing chain would also soon fail.


----------



## Rogue

Markus WellBelly MD said:


> Apart from instances where the car wouldn't go into gear at all.
> Are there any early warning signs of trouble with the dsg?
> Should I be looking out for anything?


The only other problem I've had with mine was the engine fan not working properly due to a blown fuse.

It was the emergency stop that seems to have "broken" my mechatronic control module.

Rogue


----------



## Typhhon

My research continues

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=147504

Nice to know we are not alone.......

So far it seems that mechatronic is the leak link...


----------



## Black Knight

Typhhon said:


> My research continues
> 
> http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=147504
> 
> Nice to know we are not alone.......
> 
> So far it seems that mechatronic is the leak link...


the last page on that link has some worrying faults.. two people have had the dual mass flywheel break their transmission housing... hooray for DMFs..

Why doesn't audi just put a cheap exchange price for the mechatronic. They don't have to issue a recall or offer to replace FOC, just lower the price enough so people wont bother them. They can't have planned into their budget the extreme rate of failures(that would be seriously evil) and what are they now actually gloating about the incraesed income from unplanned out-of-warranty mechatronic replacements? Why can't they just put a cheap price on an exchange basis? The extra money they are now getting from mechatronic failures is a bonus to them, a bonus they should give up on as it will seriously damage their brand, especially as VAG seems to plan replacing all autos with DSG boxes. If this story spreads noone will buy their cars then and this will obviously spoil that plan.
Apparently they also claimed 90% of DSGs replaced under warranty are actually OK so why don't they just refurbish them or something and sell them to out-of-warranty customers at cheap exchange basis prices? Why do I have to pay R&D twice for the same part that wasnt even R&Ded enough to be fit for production?

If Audi AG decides to cover the costs of my gearbox replacement i will push to replace it with a manual 6 spd, especially if they dont warranty the new gearbox for at least 2 years. i've seen it can be done, a hassle, but it can be done.


----------



## denTTed

There's a bit in honest John in todays telegraph, looks like a dsg failure but dealer reckons a oil change cured it. Might be worth dropping him an email to get a bit more attention.


----------



## Rogue

jonson said:


> There's a bit in honest John in todays telegraph, looks like a dsg failure but dealer reckons a oil change cured it. Might be worth dropping him an email to get a bit more attention.


Thanks.
I'll send an email off.
It's [email protected] if anyone else wants to email too.

Here's the story in question:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/mai ... targetRule

Rogue


----------



## Rogue

I was just thinking, is it worthwhile me asking the dealer to give me back my old Mechatronic Control Unit to let someone who knows about electronics (John H?) have a look at it and see if they can diagnose the problem with it?

I'm willing to ship it anywhere in the UK (how big is it?) if someone can have a look at it.

Rogue


----------



## denTTed

Technically you own it, so yes, unless it is a refurbable part.


----------



## Rogue

Another update.
My car should be getting repaired today.

Or at least, it WOULD be if the part had arrived.
I phoned the dealer yesterday to check that the repair would be going ahead today, and he said the part was scheduled for delivery today (Tuesday) but he would phone to double-check.
Quelle surprise, he phones back and tells me that the part WON'T be here on time, and as yet he doesn't know when it WILL be here.
He mentione (again) that it was because it was a manual order, so I asked him what the difference was between a manual order and a normal order, and after much umming and ahh-ing, he admitted he didn't know.
Then he tells me that he doesn't NEED to know, and I politely tell them that if he's going to use the fact that it's a manual order as an excuse for it's non-delivery, then he damn well BETTER know the difference.

This is adding up YET AGAIN to be poor customer service from Stirling Audi. As from tomorrow, I'll be *two weeks* without my car.

I've also requested that they give me the old control module when they replace it, and he said there shouldn't be a problem as long as it's not a serviceable part....... :roll:

Can I also take this opportunity to thank everyone for their support so far, and ask again that people register their DSG problems with Watchdog .

http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/tv_and_ra ... ndex.shtml

Thanks,
Rogue


----------



## elderberry blue

Sorry to hear that mate i unterstand your frustration, but you have a courtesy car right????????????????


----------



## rballtt

This is turning out out to be a real nightmare mate. Everytime my box feels a bit twitchy,I panick now. Even yesterday I managed to get in between gears when trying to reverse into my parking spot at the flat and it just revved.....I almost cried until I realised that it was not actually in reverse!

It's absurd that you have to go through so much effort to sort it yourself...Audi should be disgusted at the way some of their dealerships behave to current, loyal clients.

Rich


----------



## Rogue

@Elderberry

Yes, but only after a week of having to pay for a rental car, and only being given a courtesy car when I agreed to stump up Â£900 for the repair and service.



rballtt said:


> This is turning out out to be a real nightmare mate. Everytime my box feels a bit twitchy,I panick now. Even yesterday I managed to get in between gears when trying to reverse into my parking spot at the flat and it just revved.....I almost cried until I realised that it was not actually in reverse!
> 
> It's absurd that you have to go through so much effort to sort it yourself...Audi should be disgusted at the way some of their dealerships behave to current, loyal clients.
> 
> Rich


I'm going to be exactly the same when I (eventually) get my car back.
I've lost all faith in it now.
As for their customer service, it's the final nail in the coffin for me giving any more money to Audi.

Rogue


----------



## Rogue

I'm collecting my car today at lunchtime (15 days after it broke down....) and told the service department I wanted the old part back, and was told that "Audi might want the part back to investigate it and, as they've contributed towards the cost, the dealer has to keep the part for them for 3 months".

Is this genuine, or a fob-off attempt?

I've now told her I want to take pictures of the part, so I'll see if I can get a revision number and stuff from it.

Rogue


----------



## Whitter45

ask to see the part they have removed - this should give you piece of mind that the parrt has been replaced

ask for documentation of the new part and get it photo copied

after having the TT for 3 years and moving over to BMW (who have reported issues with CS) I am amazed at how poor Audi CS is

If they are not careful they will lose custom through fault of CS and not their product


----------



## Rogue

That's me got my car back.
I managed to take a couple of pics of the control unit.
It's a hell of a lot bigger than I imagined.
Unfortunately, I had my phone set to auto-flash and the pics have suffered a bit for it.

I spoke to a very helpful chap in the workshop who told me that once they've had the credit note from Audi CS, they'd release the part to me.
*I told him I was going to get an electronics expert to look at it and diagnose the fault, and he said "Is it Wak?" so you're even famous North of the Border, mate  *
He mentioned about WhiTTe and how you originally had 1 of only two white TTs in the country, and how now other Marques are going for the white look this year. We agreed white was the new black :lol:

Initial impressions are that the car is waiting for higher revs than previously before it changes gear, which gives the impression that it's faster. I think it will also take a bit longer before it gets up to 6th gear because of this. Maybe this is to do with the revised part, as the Mechatronic Control Unit has an ECU in it (so I'm told by Audi) so presumably has some software onboard.

I'll know for sure when it gets a proper drive on the country roads on the way home tonight.



















Rogue


----------



## Motorhead

Rogue said:


> That's me got my car back.
> I managed to take a couple of pics of the control unit.
> It's a hell of a lot bigger than I imagined.
> Unfortunately, I had my phone set to auto-flash and the pics have suffered a bit for it.
> 
> I spoke to a very helpful chap in the workshop who told me that once they've had the credit note from Audi CS, they'd release the part to me.
> *I told him I was going to get an electronics expert to look at it and diagnose the fault, and he said "Is it Wak?" so you're even famous North of the Border, mate  *
> He mentioned about WhiTTe and how you originally had 1 of only two white TTs in the country, and how now other Marques are going for the white look this year. We agreed white was the new black :lol:
> 
> Initial impressions are that the car is waiting for higher revs than previously before it changes gear, which gives the impression that it's faster. I think it will also take a bit longer before it gets up to 6th gear because of this. Maybe this is to do with the revised part, as the Mechatronic Control Unit has an ECU in it (so I'm told by Audi) so presumably has some software onboard.
> 
> I'll know for sure when it gets a proper drive on the country roads on the way home tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rogue


Well done....

The stealers still have mine went in on Sept 10


----------



## Rogue

@Motorhead

I think they were just glad to see the back of me because I had a bit of knowledge and was asking a lot of questions 

Hope you get yours resolved soon.

Rogue


----------



## Typhhon

Temic = Aquired a few years back by Continental (them of the tyres).

Now Continental Temic part of the Continental Automotive Systems Group.
They also supply the new TT brake cylinders and most of the Q7 brakeing and stability electronics.

One wonders if quality control cost them and Continental picked them up cheap..just a thought.


----------



## Rogue

Always good info to know. 8) 
I was hoping the names and numbers on the part meant something to someone, 'cause they don't mean a thing to me 

Rogue



Typhhon said:


> Temic = Aquired a few years back by Continental (them of the tyres).
> 
> Now Continental Temic part of the Continental Automotive Systems Group.
> They also supply the new TT brake cylinders and most of the Q7 brakeing and stability electronics.
> 
> One wonders if quality control cost them and Continental picked them up cheap..just a thought.


----------



## Stevieboy V6

Continental don't pay lightly for companies, they just picked up Siemens VDO (Automotive Only) for $16Billion  . Outbidding my company (TRW)

Temic actually had a good reputation for quality and are perceived well in the Automotive industry.
It could have been that Temic were just contracted to make a part to print from the VAG group, it does happen.

Good information though as i have an 54 plate 3.2 with DSG and are watching this subject with interest. :?


----------



## volkswizard

Hi,

Great thread, priceless info.
Another TT with the same problem!
A friend of mine has been asked to fix a TT 3.2 DSG that keeps dropping into first, gear selector display flashes and then it will only change up at rev limit. It wont then select reverse and sometimes it wont select a forward gear.

I have used VAG COM to read the fault code memory and found this;

18115 - Interference in Mechatronic Module
P1707 - 006 - Short to Plus - Intermittent
17145 - Shift solenoid 3 (N90):Open or short to ground
P0761 - 000 - Intermittent
19164 - Pressure control solenoid 6: Open or short to ground
P2732 - 000 --- Intermittent - MIL ON
17150 - Shift solenoid 4 (N91): Open or short to ground
P0766 - 000 ---- Intermittent - MIL ON

It does sound like at least a mechatronic unit failure but can anyone confirm this?

Thanks.


----------



## Motorhead

volkswizard said:


> Hi,
> 
> Great thread, priceless info.
> Another TT with the same problem!
> A friend of mine has been asked to fix a TT 3.2 DSG that keeps dropping into first, gear selector display flashes and then it will only change up at rev limit. It wont then select reverse and sometimes it wont select a forward gear.
> 
> I have used VAG COM to read the fault code memory and found this;
> 
> 18115 - Interference in Mechatronic Module
> P1707 - 006 - Short to Plus - Intermittent
> 17145 - Shift solenoid 3 (N90):Open or short to ground
> P0761 - 000 - Intermittent
> 19164 - Pressure control solenoid 6: Open or short to ground
> P2732 - 000 --- Intermittent - MIL ON
> 17150 - Shift solenoid 4 (N91): Open or short to ground
> P0766 - 000 ---- Intermittent - MIL ON
> 
> It does sound like at least a mechatronic unit failure but can anyone confirm this?
> 
> Thanks.


Looks like the Met Unit may be suffering from a low voltage supply..

Looks like a new one..


----------



## rjl

And another DSG failure! [smiley=bigcry.gif]

Started about 5 weeks ago, flashing display etc. Switching it off and on again got it going again, but it started to get more frequent in the last week or so. Was driving to work on Monday morning when it happened twice in short succession, almost had an accident because of it too, so decided it had to go in to the dealership there and then. Left it with them to diagnose. When they called me back later that day, I was told it needed a new Mechatronic Unit and it would cost £1850 to fix, but that Audi UK might contribute as a "good-will gesture" and they'd get in touch with them in the morning. Yesterday afternoon I was offered £1184, then £1095, that's with 33% off from Audi UK and a bit more from the dealership... said no, especially after explaining what I'd seen on this and other forums about this problem. This morning I called Audi CS and the dealership again to try and get a bit more, but no-one was budging an inch  Reluctantly this afternoon I agreed to pay the £1095 as I couldn't wait any longer, needed them to order the damn part so I can get my car back this year! Looks like it's going to take 5-10 days for the part to arrive, and it doesn't look like I'm going to get a courtesy car in the mean time either 

I've had gearbox issues before (losing certain gears at random, etc) in which a software update "fixed", and electrical issues caused by the Audi dealer incorrectly installing my Tracker (broke the fuel pump and Tracker - god knows what other damage it might have caused - and what a job I had getting them to admit liability and fix it!). Luckily all of these were when it was still under warranty, but that's not the case now [smiley=bigcry.gif]

Hmmmm, Watchdog... :wink:

Russ


----------



## Nick 225TT

Wow Real Glad I did not go for a 3,2 dsg i was that close to getting one but went for a 225 instead

feel real sorry for dsg owners what a rip off


----------



## Rogue

rjl said:


> And another DSG failure! [smiley=bigcry.gif]
> 
> Started about 5 weeks ago, flashing display etc. Switching it off and on again got it going again, but it started to get more frequent in the last week or so. Was driving to work on Monday morning when it happened twice in short succession, almost had an accident because of it too, so decided it had to go in to the dealership there and then. Left it with them to diagnose. When they called me back later that day, I was told it needed a new Mechatronic Unit and it would cost £1850 to fix, but that Audi UK might contribute as a "good-will gesture" and they'd get in touch with them in the morning. Yesterday afternoon I was offered £1184, then £1095, that's with 33% off from Audi UK and a bit more from the dealership... said no, especially after explaining what I'd seen on this and other forums about this problem. This morning I called Audi CS and the dealership again to try and get a bit more, but no-one was budging an inch  Reluctantly this afternoon I agreed to pay the £1095 as I couldn't wait any longer, needed them to order the damn part so I can get my car back this year! Looks like it's going to take 5-10 days for the part to arrive, and it doesn't look like I'm going to get a courtesy car in the mean time either
> 
> I've had gearbox issues before (losing certain gears at random, etc) in which a software update "fixed", and electrical issues caused by the Audi dealer incorrectly installing my Tracker (broke the fuel pump and Tracker - god knows what other damage it might have caused - and what a job I had getting them to admit liability and fix it!). Luckily all of these were when it was still under warranty, but that's not the case now [smiley=bigcry.gif]
> 
> Hmmmm, Watchdog... :wink:
> 
> Russ


Sorry to hear about your problems.
Just out of interest, what year is your car? Is it an 04 plate?

I got Audi CS to contribute 60% after arguing with them for days, so it's worth persevering.
If this is your first Audi, tell them it's putting you off buying another one, if it's not your first, lay it on about how you are a loyal customer etc.

Let us know how you get on.
I know a few people have registered details with Watchdog but, as far as I know, no-one has had a call-back from them.

Rogue


----------



## rjl

Rogue said:


> Sorry to hear about your problems.
> Just out of interest, what year is your car? Is it an 04 plate?
> 
> I got Audi CS to contribute 60% after arguing with them for days, so it's worth persevering.
> If this is your first Audi, tell them it's putting you off buying another one, if it's not your first, lay it on about how you are a loyal customer etc.
> 
> Let us know how you get on.
> I know a few people have registered details with Watchdog but, as far as I know, no-one has had a call-back from them.
> 
> Rogue


Hi Rogue,

No it's a 53 plate (Dec2003). Still no news from the dealership on when the part will arrive  nearly 2 weeks without a car so far 

I'm gutted really, because I was thinking of trading it in for a new A3 not so long ago. Somehow I don't think I'll be buying an Audi ever again!

Russ


----------



## Rogue

rjl said:


> Hi Rogue,
> 
> No it's a 53 plate (Dec2003). Still no news from the dealership on when the part will arrive  nearly 2 weeks without a car so far
> 
> I'm gutted really, because I was thinking of trading it in for a new A3 not so long ago. Somehow I don't think I'll be buying an Audi ever again!
> 
> Russ


Hi Russ.

You should tell Audi CS about your possible A3 purchase.
It might make them go the extra mile to help you more.

Rogue


----------



## Rosskie

I really fancy changing to a V6 and really want the flappy paddle gearbox.

How highs the failure rate?

Being put off a bit now


----------



## rjl

Got my car back today  and I have to say it feels fantastic 

Ok, it cost me a grand but I'm happy and that's all that matters! Think I'm gonna keep it a bit longer now 

Russ


----------



## Motorhead

rjl said:


> Got my car back today  and I have to say it feels fantastic
> 
> Ok, it cost me a grand but I'm happy and that's all that matters! Think I'm gonna keep it a bit longer now
> 
> Russ


Glad you`re happy with it...


----------



## Rogue

rjl said:


> Got my car back today  and I have to say it feels fantastic
> 
> Ok, it cost me a grand but I'm happy and that's all that matters! Think I'm gonna keep it a bit longer now
> 
> Russ


Congratulations, Russ 

Rogue


----------



## GEM

rjl said:


> Got my car back today  and I have to say it feels fantastic
> 
> Russ


 Nice one.[smiley=thumbsup.gif]
John.


----------



## Typhhon

Rosskie said:


> I really fancy changing to a V6 and really want the flappy paddle gearbox.
> 
> How highs the failure rate?
> 
> Being put off a bit now


The industry refers to this as 'infant mortality' when a high number of systems fail early in their life you first monitor then inspect and finally modify or replace the offending sub assemby.

Having searched for info since my failure it would seem that a high number of DSG's failed on VAG vehicles in the period 2003 to 2006. Most were captured in warranty first by return to base and then by dealer rebuilds all linked to the Mechatronic unit (solenoid failure/errors) or the clutch end cover circlips. So far none of the car reviews have shown the DSG as a major fault (dashpods, suspension, MAF, coils etc all do). Getting actual numbers is going to be pretty difficult but it would seem that if you make it to 40K miles then its a good'un. However thats about the time that old age sets in. If I was doing this again I would look at a very late model but that goes for any manufacturer as you hope all the bugs have died or been killed at someone elses expense.

The low number of DSG's shipped compared to the other models probaly mean that only a enthusiast is going to look at rebuilding/repairing the mechatronic unit. It would be interesting to know if all the DSG VAG models have the same mechatronic unit 'cause if mine goes again I wil go scrap hunting first. Next of interest is what mods have been done to the mechatronic or box in general since the first builds and typically they won't change the part number just the mod or issue number on the sub assembly.

Either way since the replacement and the software upgrade she's a different beast and so far hasn't missed a beat.

Have yet to hear of a second one going down...unlesss...of course...anyone knows better.... :wink:

--


----------



## slikt

Typhhon said:


> Rosskie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I really fancy changing to a V6 and really want the flappy paddle gearbox.
> 
> How highs the failure rate?
> 
> Being put off a bit now
> 
> 
> 
> The industry refers to this as 'infant mortality' when a high number of systems fail early in their life you first monitor then inspect and finally modify or replace the offending sub assemby.
> 
> Having searched for info since my failure it would seem that a high number of DSG's failed on VAG vehicles in the period 2003 to 2006. Most were captured in warranty first by return to base and then by dealer rebuilds all linked to the Mechatronic unit (solenoid failure/errors) or the clutch end cover circlips. So far none of the car reviews have shown the DSG as a major fault (dashpods, suspension, MAF, coils etc all do). Getting actual numbers is going to be pretty difficult but it would seem that if you make it to 40K miles then its a good'un. However thats about the time that old age sets in. If I was doing this again I would look at a very late model but that goes for any manufacturer as you hope all the bugs have died or been killed at someone elses expense.
> 
> The low number of DSG's shipped compared to the other models probaly mean that only a enthusiast is going to look at rebuilding/repairing the mechatronic unit. It would be interesting to know if all the DSG VAG models have the same mechatronic unit 'cause if mine goes again I wil go scrap hunting first. Next of interest is what mods have been done to the mechatronic or box in general since the first builds and typically they won't change the part number just the mod or issue number on the sub assembly.
> 
> Either way since the replacement and the software upgrade she's a different beast and so far hasn't missed a beat.
> 
> Have yet to hear of a second one going down...unlesss...of course...anyone knows better.... :wink:
> 
> --
Click to expand...

Mine went a few months ago at 30k and its an 04 plate. . its a joke. . !


----------



## goonette

I think mine may be going. Clunky changing down gears when creeping and has been stuck in third once and popped right out of gear once. Also refused to select reverse after turning car off and on again in the latter instance.
Tired to ring stealer today, service lady was with a customer, left my number but no call back today. They're closed tomorrow. Will be calling again fisrt thing Monday.
Car is under warranty, had it less than 2 months. 04 plate, 44k.

Advice please, if I get it repaired under warranty, the unit replaced, will it and my gearbox be covered for future problems for the life of the warranty (currently 10 months left)

Gee, what a f***ing nightmare this is. Love the car. Not loving the problems.


----------



## Hellbound

Hi peeps....
I'm going to trade in my van for a grey/red leather 05 plate V6 TT. It's on for £13k but the salesman said he'll get it down to around £11k and would give me £8.5k for my van. They've just received it from Audi so it hasnt been prepped for sale yet - think they want to get rid as they sell 225s and dont want to risk a V6 sitting around taking up space. I've been trying to get rid of my van for ages, all the dealers end up calling the same place for a valuation; Eurocommercials Mercedes Benz, who keep saying its worth £6k because the van market is dead at the mo! 
The downside is the TT has 90k on the clock. It's a one owner vehicle with full main dealer service history and looks amazingly fresh for the miles. The plan is to run it for a month and then change it for a 05 plate A4 Conv.

However all this talk of DSG failure has got me worried...

PS. ....driving around in a van when you don't need one really sucks!


----------



## Typhhon

90K :  I'd say you have nothing on the DSG front to worry about and if its only for a month or so do it! 
I'd only say on the test drive try it in all the modes including selecting S on the move and then an immediate 'two down' on the flappy paddles. 
 Could ask for a warranty!
Think you may not want the A4 after that...... 8)


----------



## Hellbound

Yeah, definitely going to get a warranty. The salesman said as the car looks pretty fresh and as its come straight from an Audi dealership (maybe a lease/fleet car - prob didnt want a 90k miler on their forecourt) he thinks most of those miles were done on the motorway. Need to get a look at the service history and a take it for a lengthy test drive.


----------



## Evonutter

Hi Guys,

They finally got back to me, Technical have been looking into this and they came back saying nothing really wrong. :!:

they offered me 70% disount, and if the sh***t hits in the fan later and Audi do realise that it is a problem then refund.

sort of OK with it; but still think it is a dangerous problem and they should own up 

should get they car back by the end of the week 8)

Also posted complaint to watchdog, lets hope someone is watching :idea:

steve


----------



## bobclive

Sorry to the of DSG failure, the problem is that it is a complexed computer controlled system. why would you want to such a system instead of your foot and hand. The manual Audi gearbox is bullet proof, so is the manual clutch.
Keep it simple.


----------



## RobLE

bobclive said:


> Sorry to the of DSG failure, the problem is that it is a complexed computer controlled system. why would you want to such a system instead of your foot and hand. The manual Audi gearbox is bullet proof, so is the manual clutch.
> Keep it simple.


But the DSG is so much fun! Its great to be able to stick it in D when you're feeling tired on a long drive or in town and then manual mode on the back roads, or in sport mode...the throttle blips etc. sound great too...!

However all this talk of DSG failures is getting me worried again now! Luckily I have 9 months left on my Audi warranty, but after that, guess I'd better take out another one. They really shouldn't be allowed to keep producing them if they keep doing this though, without providing a lifetime warranty like with the dashpods...or perhaps a maximum cost to the consumer say £200 or something and they pay the rest.

What other part on a £30k car would be expected to fail in even 100K miles that would cost well in excess of £1000.00 providing the car is maintained properly, let along in the low mileages we're hearing about here? A well maintained car, should, in theory, run well for years without any major expense. My 53 plate 3.2 has done 23,000 miles - I should be able to think I'll keep it for 5 years if I want and put another 60K miles on it without having to worry about a £1000+ bill.

Several other manufacturers are now going down the DSG route, including Porsche and Ferrari - wonder what problems they're going to have?! Isn't the Porsche PDK system basically the Audi DSG?

Rob.


----------



## Typhhon

bobclive said:


> the problem is that it is a complexed computer controlled system. why would you want to such a system instead of your foot and hand.


Think the DGS is complex have a look at your ECU!! 8) 
Yea would could all drive tech free cars no ABS, no airbags, no ICE, no Nav, no Road Angel, no climate control, no ESP, no turbo, no lights, no warnings etc but then who wants a dinosaur?

Blokes like gadgets and the DSG is a real mans gadget plus V.B. Hendeson showed that a manual is slower round the track than a DSG.

Oh and I think the DSG failures were mechanical either loose bolts and sticking solenoids. :-*


----------



## LesleyTT

I've just been informed by my local Audi dealership that my 54 plate, with 28,000 on the clock has suffered a mechatronic unit failure and that the bargain bill will be £1700.00. The first time this happened, the car was but a baby at 2 years old and 17K on the clock. It got stuck in the garage as it coudn't go into reverse, but 12 hours later the fault had cleared itself and I drove it to the dealership.The dealership said that it needed a software update. Looks like a poorly applied elastoplast to get it through the warranty period - or am I just cynical?

I've hassled the dealership, what are chances of Audi UK footing the bill? Does anyone know of an alternative to giving the dealers the cash?


----------



## Motorhead

LesleyTT said:


> I've just been informed by my local Audi dealership that my 54 plate, with 28,000 on the clock has suffered a mechatronic unit failure and that the bargain bill will be £1700.00. The first time this happened, the car was but a baby at 2 years old and 17K on the clock. It got stuck in the garage as it coudn't go into reverse, but 12 hours later the fault had cleared itself and I drove it to the dealership.The dealership said that it needed a software update. Looks like a poorly applied elastoplast to get it through the warranty period - or am I just cynical?
> 
> I've hassled the dealership, what are chances of Audi UK footing the bill? Does anyone know of an alternative to giving the dealers the cash?


I believe Audi UK have made "Goodwill" gestures to around 60% of the cost to customers whose metrotronic modlue or DSG box has failed out of the warranty period..

This is all well and good, however they are failing way too soon and Audi still refuse to acknowledge the fact that there is a issue with these units, as they have done with TT dashpods, which they replace under warranty..

This issue was to be raised with BBC watchdog, a number of members, me included passed on information to them, however this was never really forcefully pushed or followed up as far as i`m aware..

Audi will update the software first, then if this fails will replace parts..

However, if you approached a dealer with your concern regarding the gearbox WITHIN the warranty period as it appears you have, and the result, as you say, was a software update that never resolved the issue in the long term, then you have a case, as the main fault was never rectified and was occurring at that point in time regardless of the update..Its up to Audi to prove that the control unit at that time was not faulty,not for you to prove that it was..

Best of luck..


----------



## TOURBOLUX

i just ordered a new VAG car with DSG 7 gears (dry clutch)...2 years warranty...

i am so scared after reading these failures...

what are the chances that the newer models with DSG 7 are better than the older ones? it seems that the dsg from 2004-2006 had some failure issues...are the ones from 2007 till today better?


----------



## Marksi77

Hi All,

And another one... I own a 53 plate 3.2 V6 complete with DSG and full main dealer service history with just over 75K on the clock. About 2 weeks ago overtook some slower traffic and the gearbox kicked down a couple of cogs as normal, but failed to change back up when I pulled back in and eased off noticed the gear selector light flashing, tried putting into S and back into D but nothing, tried manual and the paddles, again nothing. Limping the car home it seemed to like first which it held to the red line, at which point the power dropped right off, leaving little control when pulling away from junctions etc before finding a gear (recon this was 4th), on getting home tried reverse but nothing there either, by this point had the engine management light on also, just in case I'd not noticed something was up! - Not a happy bunny! Got it into the dealers 2 days later and it drove fine on the way there, they checked it over and concluded it was a sporadic fault, which had been cleared and all would be fine. A week to the day later I was back at the service desk, same symptoms but happened driving in town traffic - not exactly strenuous on the box. Suggestion this time was to change the oil to start with and take it from there, which I've gone along with, but wishing I'd read this first! After the oil change and a road test I was told it was showing the same signs..... next step a more thorough testing plan.... ummm. Having an un-drivable car you don't have much choice at this stage. This revealed a Mechatronic unit failure (which was promptly googled and found you guys in a matter of minutes) Replacement part cost £1600 and fitted £2600, not to mention the oil change and diagnostics already carried out. So for the dealer has contacted the manufacturer with no joy of help and are now waiting on a reply from customer services.... So as it stands currently I'm not looking at getting much change out of £3000 [smiley=bigcry.gif] 
Really useful thread, have had plenty to use in conversation already but welcome any thoughts.

Cheers

Marksie


----------



## Rogue

Marksi77 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> And another one... I own a 53 plate 3.2 V6 complete with DSG and full main dealer service history with just over 75K on the clock. About 2 weeks ago overtook some slower traffic and the gearbox kicked down a couple of cogs as normal, but failed to change back up when I pulled back in and eased off noticed the gear selector light flashing, tried putting into S and back into D but nothing, tried manual and the paddles, again nothing. Limping the car home it seemed to like first which it held to the red line, at which point the power dropped right off, leaving little control when pulling away from junctions etc before finding a gear (recon this was 4th), on getting home tried reverse but nothing there either, by this point had the engine management light on also, just in case I'd not noticed something was up! - Not a happy bunny! Got it into the dealers 2 days later and it drove fine on the way there, they checked it over and concluded it was a sporadic fault, which had been cleared and all would be fine. A week to the day later I was back at the service desk, same symptoms but happened driving in town traffic - not exactly strenuous on the box. Suggestion this time was to change the oil to start with and take it from there, which I've gone along with, but wishing I'd read this first! After the oil change and a road test I was told it was showing the same signs..... next step a more thorough testing plan.... ummm. Having an un-drivable car you don't have much choice at this stage. This revealed a Mechatronic unit failure (which was promptly googled and found you guys in a matter of minutes) Replacement part cost £1600 and fitted £2600, not to mention the oil change and diagnostics already carried out. So for the dealer has contacted the manufacturer with no joy of help and are now waiting on a reply from customer services.... So as it stands currently I'm not looking at getting much change out of £3000 [smiley=bigcry.gif]
> Really useful thread, have had plenty to use in conversation already but welcome any thoughts.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Marksie


Sorry to hear about your problem, Marksie.
All I'd say is push Audi CS for a contribution towards the repair.
It's the most you can expect from them.

Rogue


----------



## Marksi77

Well as an update, dealer has now let me know the entire cost.... a little better than expected at £2420-03, and they've offered to waive the initial oil change and investigation work, bringing it to a grand total of £2020-50 that I need to stump up! The factory have said that they are not prepared to contribute and CS have also said that as the car is over 5 years old they would not even open a case file on it, pointing out that it was only 2 months over the 5 years didn't help my case and neither did mentioning that it seems to be a well documented failure, however they have offered to investigate the reason for the failure, but this will not result in a contribution towards the repair. Feels like I'm at a dead end already so best see the bank manager! Does anyone know of any other avenues worth looking into, I'm not after something for free, just for someone to recognise a bit of responsibility on their part.

Marksie


----------



## Typhhon

Freedom of infomation act should allow you to ask for 'information' on how others have been treated just to see if the 5 years is a 'real' cut off.

First stop is Citizens Advice Bureau or your family solicitor (yea?).

I would try CS again as you have a full service history I would suggest you have shown 'reasonable care'.

Had you thought about a second hand box? A grand of the cost is the Mechatronic ISTR.

Probably sounds harsh but at £2K its about 2 full services plus a good dinner for 2 or 2 new clutches and a weekend away.

My snowboarding buddy just has his old (4 years) S6 full suspension done .....Dealer = £4.5K!! Too late to tell him about APS.


----------



## Marksi77

Sounds good advice, cheers. Like the "reasonable care" line, worth a third shot at CS but got the feeling that although I stayed calm there was a fair bit of listening from their part, but a very polite there's the line, we don't budge from it so not really interested. Talking to the dealer again tomorrow, they're looking to see what else they can do. Anyone else had any dealings with CS post the 5 year mark? Would be interested to know if this really is a line that is never crossed.


----------



## Rogue

Marksi77 said:


> Sounds good advice, cheers. Like the "reasonable care" line, worth a third shot at CS but got the feeling that although I stayed calm there was a fair bit of listening from their part, but a very polite there's the line, we don't budge from it so not really interested. Talking to the dealer again tomorrow, they're looking to see what else they can do. Anyone else had any dealings with CS post the 5 year mark? Would be interested to know if this really is a line that is never crossed.


They're just looking for any old b*llocks excuse not to pay up.
My car was around 3 years and 2 months old when I suffered the Mechatronic Control Unit failure, just 2 months out of warranty, and I was told by CS that I had to expect failing parts because my car was "old". :x

Rogue


----------



## DSG-Steve

Hi there

I've got a 3.2 TT and it's just started doing strange things. If I'm in flappy paddle mode and driving at 30mph in 3rd and put my foot down it over revs and drops to 2nd. If I ease off a bit it changes back to 3rd all by itself.

I could understand it if I was in D but not when I'm using the paddles.

Does this sound like mechatronic failure? Is there anything I go do to check? (with VAGCOM perhaps?)


----------



## KJR

Hi All
Guess what, Yes I suffered a DSG failure whilst travelling at 20mph approaching a set of traffic lights. No previous DSG problems - the car has a full service history (just recently been serviced and had new starter motor, ouch) As yet the full problems has not been diagnosed other than it could be a Mechatronic problem or a total gearbox failure.
My TT is on a 53 plate and under 60,000 miles.
At the moment the car is with an Audi/VW specialist but not main dealer. The thing is do I get the car moved to a main dealer to investigate the problem further and then try and begin the negotiation with Audi on what they would be prepared to do or contribute or do I forget it, speak to the bank and pay out for a totally new gearbox! [smiley=bigcry.gif]

This is not the first problem I have had with this TT. Previously I had an issue with an airbag sensor fault which Audi initially couldn't get to the bottom of - kept resetting the sensor for it to come back on again within a few weeks. Eventually they told me a new offside airbag was required. After much negotiation Audi agreed to pay for the part if I paid for the fitting which I agreed. Well within a few months the same problem happened again - this time Audi said it was the nearside airbag that was at fault and cos it was a new problem I would have to pay the full cost, yeh really!!!!


----------



## Typhhon

This could be simplistic but we all seem to be 53/54 and 30-60,000 miles!
And it seems to be as common as dashpods just 3.2 DSG's dont have such a large population.
One suspects Audi know something....


----------



## KJR

Hi

Someone has just suggested upgrading the ECU software as a possible way of trying to resolve/sort the problem.
Has anyone heard of this and has it worked?


----------



## christurbo

Damn I feel sorry for you guys. this is like the accelerator pedal sensor failure on the VX220, but more expensive. Manufacturers just wash thier hands of it.

This has really made me think twice before buying my V6, such a shame I was really looking forward to that V6 burble and the DSG box.

I suspect that any aftermarket warranties will not cover the DSg because it is classed as a gearbox thus 'wear and tear'????

Could someone please confirm? Other wise I will have to start looking for a 225. [smiley=bigcry.gif]


----------



## Rogue

Didn't think I'd find myself updating my own thread but, just to prove this isn't only affecting TT's, my son's car has today been diagnosed as needing a replacement Mechatronic Control Module.
His car? A VW R32.

His symptoms were the car was jumping down gears, and being jerky when pulling away.
Due to the problems (and expense!) we incurred with our V6, he knew to push his dealer for a resolution whilst the car (57 plate) was still in warranty.

Luckily, VW Stirling were really good, asking him to bring the car in when he next experienced the problem (Murphy's Law meant symptoms stopped when he took it in the first time) and the Master Tech went out with him when he detoured en route to work the next morning, and told him no way should the car be doing that.
At first they told him they'd try changing the DSG oil, but later in the afternoon they phoned to say a new Control Module had been ordered, the first time they've had to replace one on an R32.

I'll let you all know how he gets on.

Rogue


----------



## Motorhead

christurbo said:


> Damn I feel sorry for you guys. this is like the accelerator pedal sensor failure on the VX220, but more expensive. Manufacturers just wash thier hands of it.
> 
> This has really made me think twice before buying my V6, such a shame I was really looking forward to that V6 burble and the DSG box.
> 
> I suspect that any aftermarket warranties will not cover the DSg because it is classed as a gearbox thus 'wear and tear'????
> 
> Could someone please confirm? Other wise I will have to start looking for a 225. [smiley=bigcry.gif]


Warranty companies will cover the DSG box..

If you after a 3.2, here`s one with an 18 month old DSG box and metrontronic control unit and 6 months dealer warranty left..

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=137063


----------



## Typhhon

KJR said:


> Hi
> 
> Someone has just suggested upgrading the ECU software as a possible way of trying to resolve/sort the problem.
> Has anyone heard of this and has it worked?


Mine played up a month or so after the new mechatronic was fitted.... a software upgrade fixed that.


----------



## jisaacs

Hello to all those with this seemingly common problem.

I have a Dec 08 DSG 2.0 TT.

Four or five times now (always just before the refuel warning light comes on which may be a coincedence) I have had a serious loss of power when trying to accelerate. Anything other than the lightest of touches on the accelerator and the engine just seems to lose all power. This can be quite scary as when travelling at say 50 on an A road the loss of power cause the car to jerk suddingly which is not good if a car is close behind. I then cannot accelerate but only maintain the reduced speed.

As I struggle to maintain speed the speed at which the power loss happens get lower and lower. Eventually when the car is idle I put my foot down and there is no power at all.

If I take the keys out the and restart after a few minutes it seems fine again...until the next time.

Has anyone had this problem sorted???

thanks Jon


----------



## Motorhead

jisaacs said:


> Hello to all those with this seemingly common problem.
> 
> I have a Dec 08 DSG 2.0 TT.
> 
> Four or five times now (always just before the refuel warning light comes on which may be a coincedence) I have had a serious loss of power when trying to accelerate. Anything other than the lightest of touches on the accelerator and the engine just seems to lose all power. This can be quite scary as when travelling at say 50 on an A road the loss of power cause the car to jerk suddingly which is not good if a car is close behind. I then cannot accelerate but only maintain the reduced speed.
> 
> As I struggle to maintain speed the speed at which the power loss happens get lower and lower. Eventually when the car is idle I put my foot down and there is no power at all.
> 
> If I take the keys out the and restart after a few minutes it seems fine again...until the next time.
> 
> Has anyone had this problem sorted???
> 
> thanks Jon


I wouldn`t waste any time, get it booked in its under warranty..


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## marcrat

Hi guys, I have just had the same with my 53 reg 3.2 v6 the metronic control needs replacing!!!,
I have contacted audi CS as my 7 year old son was in the car when the car came to a hault on a duel carriage way, he was so frightened he will not get back into a car ( this happeed over a week ago!) Audi CS dont seem to care! we can all see there is a common fault here. 
Good news for you guys is that I own a media company and have very good contacts in the BBC who are very interested in getting this on watchdog, I also on friday issued audi uk with a county court order.I think things are going to get interesting!!
What I need from you guy is to email me you story's about the problems with your dsg gearboxes, the more the better!!! Lets show Audi that there is power in numbers!! my email address is [email protected]

Thanks 
Marc


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## TT Ade

Hi

I'm not a V6 driver but you should start a new thread for this, maybe it can get stickied.


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## Hallyfella

Im adding myself to this ever growing thread, mine is surging and dropping power , clunking when coming to a stop,missing gears when taking off from lights etc etc .
This isnt happening all the time but its getting annoying.
Do you guys think i need a Software up date or a Mech unit ? 
Im in the process of buying a Warranty. Can anyone recomend a good one that covers the DSG. :? 
Cheers.


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## mikeat45

hi
TTRIS recommended this one https://www.surfandprotect.com/Motor/wa ... efault.asp and i have bought a warranty from them, mention TT forum and get a discount.
def covers DSG but only up until 7 years old or 70,000, as mine is 2004 i am buying 1 year now @ £230 cheaper the more years you buy and 3 years (max at 1 go) next year which take me over the 7 years old ceiling.
i hope that now i have one i will be among the ones that have no trouble.


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## msmcada

Rogue, did you get your old mechatronic unit back after replacement? I have a mechatronic unit that has one bad solenid and am having a tough time finding a replacement solenid. Seems all mechatronic issues are going bad to dealer and the parts are being reused my VW and Audi. My car is out of warranty and its hard to justify spending the money when only one solenid is bad.

Thought I would ask.

Thanks, Mike


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## Bardolphs

Hey,, Guess what ? Yes, my wifes 48k 53 3.2 TT DSG started showing problems two days ago.

Firstly, the flashing gear position indicator display and now, problems selecting gears.
A power reset cures for a while, though it soon comes back.
Local Dealer are contacting Audi CS on Tues, though we can only hope for the best as far as a contribution.

I've read this thread with interest, though Audi do seem to be shirking responsibility on this.

Whatever happened with Watchdog ?


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## Typhhon

Sympathy...  CS seem to be cutting back and saving money (see dashpod thread) ...have been considering investing is a 'spare' box with a few breaking 3.2 DSG's apprearing on e-bay last was £599 with 3 months warranty.

I will hazard a guess its the mechatronic unit.

Pain felt


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## Bardolphs

We now have our 3.2 TT back and fixed. The MU was swapped and I managed to retain the old unit too. Total bill £1600. Not too pleasant, though I have to say our local dealer was good enough to loan us a new A6 for the duration. Anyone want a MU to try and make a good one from two faulty units ? Or know of anyone who may want one ?


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## Rogue

Bardolphs said:


> Whatever happened with Watchdog ?


They didn't get back to me.
More people need to log their complaints with Watchdog for them to listen.

Rogue


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## Paulie-Mafia

Hi everyone

Can't tell you how glad I am to have come across this thread. I just took a call from the Audi dealer I dropped my car of with this morning - and it's the worst case scenario.

I have an 04 plate A3 3.2 Quattro with DSG, which I bought earlier this year. It's got just 33k on the clock and worked brilliantly until the flashing light of death started appearing on the dash. The upshot is, there is swarf (tiny metal particles) in the gearbox - indicating some kind of mechanical failure. The quote for replacement is £4300!

I'm now waiting on the third party warranty company to sort themselves out. They will cover up to £2k of the cost, but are now deciding whether or not they want to take the car in themselves and strip the 'box down for inspection. No doubt I will now be car-less for the next 2 weeks, and waiting to find out just how much money I'm going to have to fork out.

Will keep you posted....

Cheers
Paulie


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## Paulie-Mafia

Just had a call from the warranty company - nothing is showing up on the diagnostics, so it's 100% a mechinical failure. With this in mind, it's being taken to Gravesend Transmissions http://www.transmissionskent.com/ to be stripped down. Apparently Gravesend have rebuilt and repaired a lot of DSG gearboxes and they don't always need to be junked in favour of a whole new gearbox, as is the case with VAG dealers.


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## Rogue

msmcada said:


> Rogue, did you get your old mechatronic unit back after replacement? I have a mechatronic unit that has one bad solenid and am having a tough time finding a replacement solenid. Seems all mechatronic issues are going bad to dealer and the parts are being reused my VW and Audi. My car is out of warranty and its hard to justify spending the money when only one solenid is bad.
> 
> Thought I would ask.
> 
> Thanks, Mike


No, I just took photos of the old one, just so I could see they'd actually replaced it.

Rogue


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## Rogue

It would appear our friends from VWvortex forums have had some success with their DSG gearboxes:
100,000 mile warranty for their DSG, anyone?

Read full post here

Press release from VW Group of America here:

Press release

It's worth noting that it mentions Audis being honoured too, along with refunds to those who have had to shell out money.
However, it only mentions cars so far in the 2007-2009 range.

As far as I'm concerned, a precedent has now been set and liability seems to be accepted (with some caveats).

What's our next step, people?

Rogue


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## JamesDSG

I tried Audi Uk CS with this one the other day after recently having my DSG MU replaced, didnt seem to get me anywhere. However it does look as if maybe they are starting to acknowledge the issue, but its a shame the UK isnt being investigated.

I've sent two letters to Audi UK CS with regards to my failure and still thinking about whether or not it is worth trying a third.

Has everyone else written when they have a MU failure? Or just roll over and pick up the bill?

James


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## mikeat45

i'm not going to hold my breath
this is my FIRST VAG car, and while i love my TT is is everything that i bought it for and maybe a bit more,,,,
but maybe thinking maybe its a good thing i've not wanted a VAG car before
BUT ,,,,,sorely disappointed with the mechanical build quality if some of the gearboxes "croak" after 30k miles not that mine is troublesome (so far) but i did expect it to be fairly bulletproof for at least 100k, in this modern age one woould expect the manufacturers of vechicles of this calibre not to behave as if it was a washing machine or a tumble dryer....
sorry moan over...........................now looking for GOOD things on this thread again


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## Rogue

I've just emailed this to the manager of my local Audi dealer.
Feel free to copy and paste and send on to yours, or anyone else at Audi who might listen:

=============
Dear x,

I am a long-time customer with your Stirling centre, and an even longer Audi customer, having owned 3 TT's and an A3.
I currently own a 2008 TTS (registration number XXXXX), bought brand-new from you, as well as an A3 (09 plate, a company vehicle supplied by Dundee Audi).
Both vehicles have S-Tronic/DSG gearboxes fitted.

My previous 3.2TT suffered from a Mechatronic Control Unit (MCU) failure, resulting in a proposed cost to me at the time of over £2k to repair it.
This was in a car which was 3 months out of warranty, and had just over 30k miles on it.
I fought with Audi CS and got a 60% "good-will" contribution from them, as well as a discount from yourselves.

I am a member of the UK TT Owners Club/Forum, and have seen a massive increase in the number of incidents of the MCU failing, including some at motorway speeds, almost causing crashes.
Audi CS have continually denied that there is an inherent problem with the unit, but I have just discovered that Audi and VW of America have released this press statement: http://media.vw.com/index.php?s=43&item=491
As you can see, they are now offering a 100k mileage or 10 year warranty on the DSG/S-Tronic gearboxes.
There is also mention of a safety recall due to a faulty temperature sensor, which can result in the gearbox forcibly selecting Neutral whilst driving, again rather worrying and dangerous.

Given that I own two cars which could be affected by either of the two potentially serious defects, and have already paid out over £1500 to get my 3.2TT repaired, can you please let me know Audi UK's stance on this, and whether you will also be honouring the 100k miles / 10 year warranty?

Thank you,


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## Typhhon

Paulie-Mafia said:


> Just had a call from the warranty company - nothing is showing up on the diagnostics, so it's 100% a mechinical failure. With this in mind, it's being taken to Gravesend Transmissions http://www.transmissionskent.com/ to be stripped down. Apparently Gravesend have rebuilt and repaired a lot of DSG gearboxes and they don't always need to be junked in favour of a whole new gearbox, as is the case with VAG dealers.


1) Can they repair the Mechatronic Unit?
2) How much?

Corse I could always call them myself ....do tell how you get on


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## Paulie-Mafia

Just took a call from the warranty company - the mechatronic unit is actually broken, which in turn has caused a bearing to wear out. On top of that there are other mechanical faults, described to me as "premature wear" and not commensurate with the mileage I've done.

I'm looking at the warranty company covering the £1400 to replace the mechatronic unit, then having to cover the £1800 for the mechanical issues myself. I called Audi UK and they said they wouldn't consider contributing towards the repairs given that the car is over 5 years old. I mentioned the fact that the failures are well documented on owners' forums and they said they couldn't possibly comment on the issue...

A small glimmer of hope - the franchise dealer that originally looked at the car is an "empowered centre" which means they have the ability to make decisions on goodwill contributions. There's a small chance I may be able to get them to agree to some kind of support.

Not the news I wanted to hear, no doubt there are weeks more of phone calls and letters ahead before I get behind the wheel again...


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## Paulie-Mafia

Typhhon said:


> Paulie-Mafia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just had a call from the warranty company - nothing is showing up on the diagnostics, so it's 100% a mechinical failure. With this in mind, it's being taken to Gravesend Transmissions http://www.transmissionskent.com/ to be stripped down. Apparently Gravesend have rebuilt and repaired a lot of DSG gearboxes and they don't always need to be junked in favour of a whole new gearbox, as is the case with VAG dealers.
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Can they repair the Mechatronic Unit?
> 2) How much?
> 
> Corse I could always call them myself ....do tell how you get on
Click to expand...

I don't think the unit can be repaired, it's sealed. But the £1400 cost is a good £400 less than a franchise dealer would charge.


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## Typhhon

Just dropping this link in...hope someone can use it 

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=160594&p=1633152#p1633152


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## RichRS6

Hi I'm a member of r32oc trying to organise a mass text in to BBC's Watchdog to highlight the problem with the DSG Gearboxes.

I have a 2007 MkV R32 Golf and although I have no problems at the moment I would like V.W. to do the decent thing and offer U.K. customers, (in fact all customers) of all models of vehicles with the DSG box the same 1000,000 mile Ten Year warranty which they seem to have done for the Americans.

A mass protest via text to Watchdog is simple to organise.

Everyone gets a text prepared and saves it as a draft in their phone.

Set the phones alarm to remind you to send it at the correct date and time and You dont even have to be watching the program when You do it.

Anyone interested ?

Cheers Rich.


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## denTTed

Yes, give us details.


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## RichRS6

No problem I'm going to ring V.W. customer services and then someone I have had dealings with at Watchdog first and find out when the next program is on and I will post details for You and anyone else who expected V.W. to look after its customers.


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## RichRS6

As expected really didn't get very far with V.W. Customer services the chap who answered the phone although being very polite treated me like an idiot (which I may be but he doesn't have to treat me like one!)

So I spoke to my contact at the BBC and she asked me to send an email to her outlining the problems and She'd see what could be done.

I'll try and get that done asap and keep You updated.

Cheers, Rich.


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## JamesDSG

Rich,

Sounds like a great idea. I will certainly be more than happy to get involved.

James


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## RichRS6

Quick update............

We are trying to set up a whole new forum to deal with this issue by collecting all the information on one site as there are so many different V.W. / Audi models and forums and all of them have their own sections dedicated to this problem.

If we get it all in one place it will be simpler to make it an issue with V.W. Customer Services and or Watchdog.

I will try to keep You all informed and would cordially invite You all of You who have issues with the DSG to come along and bitch !


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## Bardolphs

Excellent work..


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## Rogue

Well, looks like I'm doing an addition to my own thread, this time with a different car.

After having my TTS in at the dealers over a month ago, and them being unable to diagnose a fault or replicate the symptoms I described (car almost stalls when in slow moving traffic, and judders when pulling away), I finally managed to demonstrate it to a Master Tech at the dealers whilst dropping my A3 off for a service.
My Missus was sitting in the TTS in the car park, and texted me to say the car was doing it's thing again, so we got a Master Tech out there and then.

He agreed it would appear to be the Mechatronic Control Module at fault, and the car was booked in for next week to have a proper diagnosis.

In between times, I got a call from a mobile Audi Technician yesterday who wanted to come and take some logs from the car.
This didn't involve driving the car, rather it was more a case of him revving the engine at different speeds for periods of time and logging the readings from the gearbox/mechatronic unit.
This took about 15 minutes, and he then had to send the logs on to Audi UK.

Today, I got an email and phone-call from my dealer, telling me Audi UK have approved replacement of the Mechatronic unit, so my part is now on manual order.

Interestingly, the mobile technician was telling me that Audi UK have tightened up on authorising replacement of parts under warranty, probably due to the huge amount of gearbox issues they must be experiencing.

Ah well, my second DSG car and my second Mechatronic replacement.
At least this one is within warranty.
My car has only done 14k miles!

Rogue


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## RichRS6

Hi, My name's Rich and I posted here previously regarding the DSG problems many Golf R32oc members are having with their units failing.

There is now a website where we hope to be able to get all DSG users to contribute

www.dsgwoes.co.uk

There are threads on there with what to do if you are having problems and names and addresses of people to write to etc.

These boxes cover so many different models so there are many different forums and if we can get all the info together it will be much easier to try to press VAG to give us the same level of care that the American market has.

Once we have enough information and enough members we are going to start pressing for the same 100,000 mile or Ten Year warranty that The US has.

Firstly everyone needs to write to VW customer relations and then we want to arrange a mass text in to BBCs Watchdog.

More info to follow....................


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## Rogue

I've joined your forum, and posted details about both affected cars I've owned.
Good luck!

Rogue



RichRS6 said:


> Hi, My name's Rich and I posted here previously regarding the DSG problems many Golf R32oc members are having with their units failing.
> 
> There is now a website where we hope to be able to get all DSG users to contribute
> 
> http://www.dsgwoes.co.uk
> 
> There are threads on there with what to do if you are having problems and names and addresses of people to write to etc.
> 
> These boxes cover so many different models so there are many different forums and if we can get all the info together it will be much easier to try to press VAG to give us the same level of care that the American market has.
> 
> Once we have enough information and enough members we are going to start pressing for the same 100,000 mile or Ten Year warranty that The US has.
> 
> Firstly everyone needs to write to VW customer relations and then we want to arrange a mass text in to BBCs Watchdog.
> 
> More info to follow....................


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## RichRS6

Thanks Rogue, please help spread the word and if we can get enough owners together we may be able to get some satisfaction. (Hey Hey Hey........ thats what I say!)


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## Rogue

Just had a call from Audi to ask if I can bring my car in on the 16th for a few days to get the new Mechatronic unit fitted.
He also said they'll sort me courtesy car, without me having to ask 

Roll on the 16th!

Rogue


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## chrishumes

hi chaps, im buying a seat altea 2.0tdi with DSG. I dont think it has full seat service history, so just want to know if this 10 year thing would cover cars without history?

cheers

chris


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## Typhhon

Might help some one....

http://www.ecutesting.com/vw_and_audi_d ... x_ecu.html


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## bluebeard

Hello phoned them this morning and they say they can repair any TT fault for up to £295...this is the cost to repair the DSG mechatronic unit.....sounds very :mrgreen: good has anyone used them?

Of course you would have to get a dealer to extract the ECU before you send it to them ...but a lot less than audi's laughable £1800.

PS Do audi accept that dashpod failures are common and will pay for them? ie theyre warranted for the life of the car.


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## gar1.s

Typhhon said:


> Might help some one....
> 
> http://www.ecutesting.com/vw_and_audi_d ... x_ecu.html


thanks for this link


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## V6RUL

bluebeard said:


> Hello phoned them this morning and they say they can repair any TT fault for up to £295...this is the cost to repair the DSG mechatronic unit.....sounds very :mrgreen: good has anyone used them?
> 
> Of course you would have to get a dealer to extract the ECU before you send it to them ...but a lot less than audi's laughable £1800.
> 
> PS Do audi accept that dashpod failures are common and will pay for them? ie theyre warranted for the life of the car.


I have a 54 plate 3.2 with fuel gauge failure. FASH and they wont do it FOC as they say dash issues have been fixed in later cars. Whats up with yours?
Steve


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## bluebeard

Hi Steve

mines a 53 plate but i havent had any probs with dashpod on the current 3.2 or previous x plate 225.

Just wondered as this seems to be the most widespread fault if VW/Audi are owning up and repairing free of charge (which is what ive heard).

The only issue ive has is with a momentary "flash" on the gearbox console which audi wanted me to replace but the car has driven perfectly ever since..so a big finger to poole audi.

At the moment im addicted to sports mode


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## bluebeard

By the way ECUtesting.com say they will repair dashpod for a couple of hundred and any single fault will not cost more than £300 to repair...apparently.


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