# New Boxster with DSG ?



## gazandjan

Just been looking for pictures and came across this from channel four web site.

"Six-speed manual and six-speed automatic transmissions will be offered, the latter with a double-clutch system similar to Audi's Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG)."

Full link below

http://www.channel4.com/apps26/4car/jsp ... oryid=2522


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## scoTTy

"similar" :

They're probably buying them from the same place.


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## Guest

Hmm :-/ I know it's only the artists impression but I am quite disapointed with it's look or rather lack of newer look.

Was contemplating the new boxter when I eventually give up the 225 in 05 but don't think i will be going for it if that is the 'new look'


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## Justman

Looks very different to the pictures I have seen elsewhere ???

I think the pics I saw were in Autocar and was a coupe version. It looked fantastic!!!


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## raven

The Porsche 997 is rumoured to have a DSG as well. I guess they'll have to work out how to increase its torque handling before that launch it on such a powerful car.


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## ronin

im seeing a lot of z4 in that, i prefer the previous shots of the coupe in black - that was most pleasing
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6346&sid=178&n=158
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content...=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02249520


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## CH_Peter

Is it me, or is that ugly?


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## jampott

Its just you, m8...

Might be the very thing to replace the 350z in a couple of years


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## gazandjan

> im seeing a lot of z4 in that, i prefer the previous shots of the coupe in black - that was most pleasing
> http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6346&sid=178&n=158
> http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content...=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02249520


These are the photos that made me put my namr down, however i do agree about the softtop it looks a lot like a MR2 ! - lets wait and see what they come up with (only got about 18 mths to save up the cash )

Gary


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## ronin

> Is it me, or is that ugly?


which one?


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## Neil

New Boxster coupe pics look gorgeous ;D Yes please...

Depending on which report you read though, it's either spring 2005, or summer/winter 2006, could be a long wait


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## JimPat

> Is it me, or is that ugly?


It's not ugly, just girly! Â The changes are much needed to visually differentiate wannabees from the the real Porsche bloodline - the 911.

Cheers


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## jampott

> It's not ugly, just girly! Â The changes are much need ed to differentiate wannabees from the the real Porsche bloodline - the 911.
> 
> Cheers


Oh, you mean the uprated "people's wagon" beetle?


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## JimPat

> Oh, you mean the uprated "people's wagon" beetle?


Exactly so. Going back to the days when people bought Porsche for all the right reasons (none of which were posing or going to the golf club)

Cheers


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## Hannibal

> It's not ugly, just girly! Â The changes are much needed to visually differentiate wannabees from the the real Porsche bloodline - the 911.


It certainally won't be mistaken for the 911, but what about the bastard child of a Z4 and a MR2???

H


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## vagman

> "similar" Â :
> 
> They're probably buying them from the same place.


Audi and Porsche do cooperate with each other on certain matters.

Presumably, Porsche have entered into an agreement with Audi, to supply them with DSG gearboxes.


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## RobbieTT

> Audi and Porsche do cooperate with each other on certain matters.
> 
> Presumably, Porsche have entered into an agreement with Audi, to supply them with DSG gearboxes.


DSG is not made by Audi, they are just a customer.

The gearbox manufacturer recons it will be in quite a few cars in the next few years.


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## ronin

> Audi and Porsche do cooperate with each other on certain matters.
> 
> Presumably, Porsche have entered into an agreement with Audi, to supply them with DSG gearboxes.


exactly - original RS`s were a joint venture


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## vagman

> DSG is not made by Audi, they are just a customer.


Says who??

Audi have been developing DSG for years.


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## paulb

Says the industry

The box is a Borg Warner unit and they are also working with Porsche. From Auto Express



> Porsche is developing the next-generation Turbo to accept an advanced double clutch gearbox similar to that offered by Audi on the TT V6 and pioneered by Porsche itself on the 956/962 sports racing cars of the'80s/'90s.
> 
> Developed in co-operation with Borg-Warner, its ability to deliver rapid fire shifts without any interruption in power should see the 0-100 km/h time drop to around 3.7sec


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## KevinST

From a PR newswire 3 Jan 03...


> The first application of BorgWarner DualTronicao, the company's wet-clutch and control-system technology for a new concept automated transmission, will debut on the VW Golf R32 DSG beginning next month, and on the Audi TT 3.2 beginning in March. The new technology enables a manual transmission to evolve and perform like an automatic transmission, yet deliver significantly improved vehicle fuel economy over automatic transmissions of today. The initials DSG stand for direct-shifting gearbox.


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## vagman

DSG is an Audi product and is registered and patented to them.

Yes, there was a degree of collaboration with Borg-Warner, however, Audi has had a team of 50 engineers working on the project for the past six years.


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## scoTTy

So is it just pure co-incidence the Porsche have invented a "similar" technology so shortly after Audi? Somehow I think not.


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## raven

Does anyone know how close they are to using the DSG with more powerful engines? For example, might it add weight or something? I've always had the impression that the DSG gearbox is already pretty heavy, although I don't know where I heard that from.


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## jampott

> Does anyone know how close they are to using the DSG with more powerful engines? For example, might it add weight or something? I've always had the impression that the DSG gearbox is already pretty heavy, although I don't know where I heard that from.


It weights almost twice as much as a standard box, I believe......


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## raven

> It weights almost twice as much as a standard box, I believe......


That's what I thought so if it's got to handle more power, as well as possibly losing some weight, I think it will be a while before it appears on any Porsche. :-/


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## jampott

I didn't say it weighed twice as much as a Tiptronic or Auto-box though!!


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## nutts

I'm fairly sure I saw an article posted on this forum a good few months ago, about Porsche wanting to use the mainly Audi developed DSG, but that it need upgrading to cope with extra power Porsche would throw at it.

Clearly it's been done and we can now look forward to Audi adding it to the forthcoming 350bhp V6 RSTT : ;D


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## jampott

> I'm fairly sure I saw an article posted on this forum a good few months ago, about Porsche wanting to use the mainly Audi developed DSG, but that it need upgrading to cope with extra power Porsche would throw at it.
> 
> Clearly it's been done and we can now look forward to Audi adding it to the forthcoming 350bhp V6 RSTT : ;D


They had better get a new chassis, new seats and a new floor plan, and do something with the weight distribution then.......


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## nutts

Clearly!!

But those are the "easy" bits ;D



> They had better get a new chassis, new seats and a new floor plan, and do something with the weight distribution then.......


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## jampott

Oh, and a new V6 capable of producing 350bhp would be nice, too


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## jonah

sure i read it somewhere that Aston Martin will be using the DSG box as well.


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## vagman

> So is it just pure co-incidence the Porsche have invented a "similar" technology so shortly after Audi? Somehow I think not.


As previously stated, ScoTTy, Audi (VAG Group) and Porsche co-operate in many ways.

For example, the 3.2 engine in the Cayenne is the VAG 3.2 unit. Similarily, the DSG which Porsche want to use, is the same DSG technology developed by Audi/VAG.


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## jampott

> As previously stated, ScoTTy, Audi (VAG Group) and co-operate in many ways.
> 
> For example, the 3.2 engine in the Cayanne is the VAG 3.2 unit. Similarily, the DSG which Porsche want to use, is the same DSG technology developed by Audi/VAG.


*sigh* why do Porsche get all the good stuff, and Audi don't get ANYTHING decent in return?


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## nutts

Audi didn't get the Porsche Audi RS2 then... ;D

BUT seriously I do know what you mean. :-/


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## garyc

According to this http://www.auto-innovations.com/site/document/ddsg.html twin clutch gearboxes as a concept were developed _before _ WWII by a French engineer.

Porsche then developed and tested (with Walter Rohrl) the first twin clutch racing gearbox, the PDK for it's 962C racer back in 1985, some 18 years before Audi and Borg Warner came out with the _innovative_ DSG twin clutch box.

Of course due to histoical family links, Porsche and Audi have had a long history of engineering collaberation, but not on twin clutch gearboxes. They didn't collaberate on using 4wd for performance cars either. But the results speak for themselves, as anyone who had driven a 996 with 4wd will testify, the Porsche version is far superior than either Torsen or Haldex 4wd. Ditto PSM in conjunction with 4wd compared to Audi's ESP.

I would have very high hopes for a production Porsche twin clutch gear box based on Porsche's engineering pedigree. That Audi have gone to production with DSG, I think is brave and significant. It is not however original and Porsche are far from being 'me-too' imitators.

People should also remember that Porsche developed Tiptronic and that VAG have been a huge OEM customer for Porsche, providing R&D dollars for their othert programs.

They have had their eggs in many baskets too:

Audi's Mulitronic chain drive pseudo CVT box does not seem to have caught the car buying public's imagination very well and seems doomed, although I had a ride to the pub in a Multitronic-equipped 2.4 V6 A4 just before Xmas, and it was very smooth...

Tiptronic, Multitronic, DSG - which will die first?


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## jampott

The tellling thing about listing which gearbox technologies will die first - you didn't include "manual"...


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## garyc

> The tellling thing about listing which gearbox technologies will die first - you didn't include "manual"...


That's 'cos manual is cheap for mass prodcution volume cars. It's like there are still cars out ther with drum brakes. None that you or I would want to drive of course...


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## jampott

> That's 'cos manual is cheap for mass prodcution volume cars. Â It's like there are still cars out ther with drum brakes. Â None that you or I would want to drive of course...


If I did, I'd paint them red


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## garyc

> If I did, I'd paint them red


that's 'cos you have style and are cool.


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