# Traffic Cops



## Matthaus (Oct 29, 2011)

I appreciate that there are some members on her that have a slight dislike to the so called old bill...
This is a bit of an eye opener for some who like to slate, this is one of my colleagues doing his duty and I think you will agree he was very brave and lucky....


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Hearing those radio calls brings back horrific thoughts of Boxing Day 2003

What a gem! And an absolute credit to our country's service. The best in the world by far!


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## Audiphil (Oct 23, 2012)

He was very brave and disappointing that nobody helped the police restrain the man, the police are often taken for granted.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

its also worth comending the 2nd officer for his restraint in having that 2nd thaught.

exactly what our service needs more of!

heros  both of them


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## Matthaus (Oct 29, 2011)

I thankyou for you kind words....

The second officer 'Tim' is a very experienced officer and I agree, he did very well not get that 'rest mist situation' which is so easy to find yourself in when dealing with those situations...

Your right 'Simno' there is nothing worse as Police officer when you here a colleague is in distress and asking for assistance, we are fortunate that working in Luton we will allways drop everything to turn out, as in some of our rural areas they can be waiting for back up for some time....

It is not very often we get members of the public assisting us, it normally goes the other way....


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## Matthaus (Oct 29, 2011)

I would just like to add, that unfortunately 'Chris' had a turn for the worse and ended up in a London hospital as he collapsed later on that day, he underwent scans, and I am pleased that he made a full recovery and couldn't wait to return back to work...

As some may know we lost a very dear colleague on 11th June 2007...RIP..John Henry..


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## YoungOldUn (Apr 12, 2011)

Brave people. What was in the bike?


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## Matthaus (Oct 29, 2011)

YoungOldUn said:


> Brave people. What was in the bike?


about 20 deal bags of cannabis, he received a sentance of 9 months, for the two assaults and possession of a controlled substance.. :roll:


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## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

Unbeleivable that the public who 'they are protecting' did nothing to help; but did get their phones out to video it. Incredibly brave guys and I dont know how the second cop showed the restraint he showed.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

brave brave guys, and i cannot believe that no footer helped the poor guys!!! i bloody would have and i have no doubt of that. i know loads of plod as i do work for them and also plenty on here that i get on with. except blackpool fc the borrower as he is rental lol.

wd Mat for posting this a great vid of what the poor guys have to put up with, and is great to see a newish plod like simno having so much enthusiasm for the job. massive respect fellas [smiley=mexicanwave.gif]


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## GPT TT (Mar 18, 2012)

Huge respect as always for every Officer. Growing up both my parents were Police Officers, and now retired they are both glad to be out, as policing in this day and age is very tough and dangerous.


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## igotone (Mar 10, 2010)

Matthaus said:


> YoungOldUn said:
> 
> 
> > Brave people. What was in the bike?
> ...


So he's in possession of dealer amounts of cannabis and obviously dealing from the bike, and for that and two assaults, one serious, in fact I'd say it's a good Section 18 - he gets 9 months. Bloody pathetic! You can see how we're in the state we are.

Very sad to see people standing around doing bugger all except rubber necking.


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## Matthaus (Oct 29, 2011)

igotone said:


> Matthaus said:
> 
> 
> > YoungOldUn said:
> ...


I couldn't agree more, it is without hesitation he should of been charged with possession with intent to supply, and a section 18 on Chris, unfortunately it is very much down to the cps.... :?

*Very sad to see people standing around doing bugger all except rubber necking.[/quote]*

This has become verry much the norm with our society...


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## Matthaus (Oct 29, 2011)

Gazzer said:


> brave brave guys, and i cannot believe that no footer helped the poor guys!!! i bloody would have and i have no doubt of that. i know loads of plod as i do work for them and also plenty on here that i get on with. except blackpool fc the borrower as he is rental lol.
> 
> wd Mat for posting this a great vid of what the poor guys have to put up with, and is great to see a newish plod like simno having so much enthusiasm for the job. massive respect fellas [smiley=mexicanwave.gif]


Cheers Gazzer... :wink:

Thanks to everyone that has shown support in relation to Chris and Tim, only today did I have an encounter with somebody that had seen the program, and all he could comment on was that fact he felt that Tim, hardly did anything to support his colleague... as you can appreciate at that moment, I took a deep breath and counted to ten... ignorance and naivety came to mind... :roll: I wished him good luck in the fact that I hoped he would never be in a like situation..


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## igotone (Mar 10, 2010)

I was backed into a corner once by three yobbos and my radio had been smashed - I was due to get a hammering whichever way you looked at it. A Hells Angel of all people in full regalia waded into two of them and they eventually ran off while I managed to cuff the third. The Hells Angel wouldn't give me any details, didn't want to be officially thanked, just said he didn't like the odds and buggered off. 

I did my last three years in a Criminal Justice Unit sorting out crime files and liaising with CPS every day. I had some heavy duty rucks with most of 'em, so believe me I know what they're like.


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## neilc (Aug 8, 2011)

Wow , shocking video. I just cant believe no one helped :? And a massive credit to your colleague for not punching the guy numerous times. Amazing restraint and I can't say I could have stopped myself.


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## Matthaus (Oct 29, 2011)

igotone said:


> I was backed into a corner once by three yobbos and my radio had been smashed - I was due to get a hammering whichever way you looked at it. A Hells Angel of all people in full regalia waded into two of them and they eventually ran off while I managed to cuff the third. The Hells Angel wouldn't give me any details, didn't want to be officially thanked, just said he didn't like the odds and buggered off.
> 
> I did my last three years in a Criminal Justice Unit sorting out crime files and liaising with CPS every day. I had some heavy duty rucks with most of 'em, so believe me I know what they're like.


*


igotone said:



I was backed into a corner once by three yobbos and my radio had been smashed - I was due to get a hammering whichever way you looked at it. A Hells Angel of all people in full regalia waded into two of them and they eventually ran off while I managed to cuff the third. The Hells Angel wouldn't give me any details, didn't want to be officially thanked, just said he didn't like the odds and buggered off. 

Click to expand...

*


igotone said:


> Just goes to show you can never judge a book by its cover...It is nice to hear that you got support, as that is a terrifying situation to be in...
> 
> *I did my last three years in a Criminal Justice Unit sorting out crime files and liaising with CPS every day. I had some heavy duty rucks with most of 'em, so believe me I know what they're like.*




Say no more... :wink:

I hope you are enjoying your retirement, as it is clearly deserved..


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## Matthaus (Oct 29, 2011)

neilc said:


> Wow , shocking video. I just cant believe no one helped :? Ans a massive credit to your colleague for not punching the guy numerous times. Amazing restraint and I can't say I could have stopped myself.


Thankyou on his behalf, your right there was opportunities where Tim could of taken it to another level...and could of justified his actions, but he kept it at the level that he thought was necessary, even tho at the time he felt he had let his colleague down, we all commended him for his actions...


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Sometimes, Civilian help isn't the best option. 
In this situation it would only complicate given the level of restraint required and the effects used (spray)

People filming however is something that often I find myself having to ignore. We live in a free country where this.. Is allowed to a degree.

What's more important Is the focus on those involved. Anything else is redundant.

Having said that.. When it comes to police complaints or counter claims.. I know of two cases where civilian footage has been put forward to prove an officer innocent of any wrong doing.

Personally.. Although great full for any help.. Weather it be a sneaky foot to trip a crim or an arm out in a crowded place to cloths line the scrote.. 
I'd sooner not have anyone else hurt.

Door men or bouncers are a group whom I am often thankful of. They get a bad rap most of the time, just like the police I guess, but i find they are always keen to lend a helping hand.


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## Tangerine Knight (Jul 25, 2010)

Gazzer said:


> brave brave guys, and i cannot believe that no footer helped the poor guys!!! i bloody would have and i have no doubt of that. i know loads of plod as i do work for them and also plenty on here that i get on with. except blackpool fc the borrower as he is rental lol.
> 
> wd Mat for posting this a great vid of what the poor guys have to put up with, and is great to see a newish plod like simno having so much enthusiasm for the job. massive respect fellas [smiley=mexicanwave.gif]


thanks gaz when i retire can i have a character reference off you no place for me in the job anymore [dinosaur]

just ticked another day off my days to do chart


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## moley (May 14, 2002)

My god, just watched this video and just had to sign in (after a long time) to reply.

Absolute respect to both those guys. I ended up shouting at my monitor for someone to help - ask my wife who rushed in to find out what the noise was. It got my blood boiling that with all those people around, no one stepped in. I would have.

This video is like the Afghanistan videos of our troops - until you see it, no one realises what these guys have to do in the line of duty. Heroes all of them.

Moley


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

It's always been a dream. Despite how the job is these days.


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## Matthaus (Oct 29, 2011)

moley said:


> My god, just watched this video and just had to sign in (after a long time) to reply.
> 
> Absolute respect to both those guys. I ended up shouting at my monitor for someone to help - ask my wife who rushed in to find out what the noise was. It got my blood boiling that with all those people around, no one stepped in. I would have.
> 
> ...


Thanks Moley for your kind words...Hope your wife didn't get too distressed from your shouting at the monitor..

Total respect to our armed forces in Afghanistan...


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Matthaus said:


> moley said:
> 
> 
> > My god, just watched this video and just had to sign in (after a long time) to reply.
> ...


Our forgotten Heros!

Bring them home!


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## Matthaus (Oct 29, 2011)

simno44 said:


> It's always been a dream. Despite how the job is these days.


I will second that one mate... :wink:

Stay safe bud...


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Matthaus said:


> simno44 said:
> 
> 
> > It's always been a dream. Despite how the job is these days.
> ...


Thanks mate!! 
in relation to safety, This goes to show how crippling government cuts can be.

This could have been an officer alone due to funding not covering the 2nd man. And could have lead to a much more serious incident.

Boxing Day 03 will always be seeded deep in my heart, and for me.. Strangely it's what keeps my eyes and my brain in the game.

Our world is not a perfect place.. But these angels go some distance to making it as close as can be.. 
But then again.. My idea of a perfect world is one in witch we can cary out a hard 3,4,5 days graft.. And return home on the last day before rest days to our partners, children family and friends.. Open the fridge to a cold beer paid for by our labours and enjoy what time we have in the world. 
Thank Christ this young lad survived this ordeal and got home safe to crack open the fridge.. 
Many see similar or worse daily... And some.. don't get to go home.

Our public services are what binds this country together and keeps us safe. 
Police, medical, fire, coast.. And lest we forget our boys and girls at war.

May each and every one stay safe this evening. And may as many as possible return home safe from our fony war for Christmas.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

A great effort from the lads there, but of course the only reason the public knows about this single incident amongst the dozens just exactly like it that happened that same day is because the cameras happened to be around. Makes great TV, but for some of us that's the reality of daily life. Like the majority of my colleagues I've been assaulted many times while making arrests and on one occasion was left lying unconcious in the street with a broken back. Nobody stepped forward to help there, either. But that's what we get paid to do.

Or rather, that's what they used to pay us to do. Can't really say they pay us any more. Salaries frozen for over 2 years now. Progressive increments stopped. Priority payments given to those in the most demanding roles scrapped and competency payments phased out, cutting my salary in actual monetary terms by over £2k pa in addition to a real terms 10+% fall due to inflation. And add to that reducing the value of my pension by over £80k while making me work an extra 5 years to get it and paying 2% more of my salary for the privilage (with more increases to come). We're told we've all got our bit to do to rescue the economy from the government's mismanagement and the greed of the bankers and that we're all in it together. Well it seems that some of us are far more 'in it' than others. Keith Vaz, head of the Home Affairs Select Committee, made a speech in Westminster Hall last week, making his view clear that the police are being asked to bear a grossly disproportionate share of the burden. Why? Because we are an easy target. We have no industrial rights so the government can do anything they want to us and there's nothing we can do to stop our livlihoods and life-plans from being utterly destroyed.

And we're working at breaking point after being asked to cut our budgets by 20% - far more than anywhere else in the public sector. They tell you it's not effecting front line services, but that's a load of bollocks. I used to parade-on as part of a shift of 25 officers. This week for a set of night shifts I sat around a table with just 5 other colleagues - and that's the essential emergency response function.

So much for all those hollow speeches of admiration and support made just a matter of weeks ago when we were burying two of my colleagues. The politicians couldn't give a crap about us and they believe they can get away with it because there's no public support for the police. Screwing us over isn't a vote-loser.

So it's nice to see some people voicing support for us for a change. Though what this shows is the sad reality that most will just stand by and watch us having the shit kicked out of us, whether that's by some scumbag on the street or by another in Downing Street.


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## ryanmtt (Sep 13, 2010)

Remember seeing this on bbc 1 on Monday and was totally shocked :O I think both officers done there job even with those injuries they still managed to keep hold of him !


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

igotone said:


> I was backed into a corner once by three yobbos and my radio had been smashed - I was due to get a hammering whichever way you looked at it. A Hells Angel of all people in full regalia waded into two of them and they eventually ran off while I managed to cuff the third. The Hells Angel wouldn't give me any details, didn't want to be officially thanked, just said he didn't like the odds and buggered off.
> 
> I did my last three years in a Criminal Justice Unit sorting out crime files and liaising with CPS every day. I had some heavy duty rucks with most of 'em, so believe me I know what they're like.


love this one..............and in cheltenham we used to have the wolf outlaws who also helped a copper that had been hit with a claw hammer many many years ago.


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## Matthaus (Oct 29, 2011)

I can honestly say that I have been overwhelmed by the support of fellow members on this site and I thankyou...

I think we have established that things have changed in our careers as officers with all the changes that are in the pipeline..
Even tho, we still are willing to work all the hours and to serve and protect the public, and the fact is if we get a kick-in, well as people say, well that comes with the job, this may be so in some eyes, but it does not give anyone the right to assault us....
I was fully aware when I joined what I was getting myself into and can honestly say I haven't looked back in the 12 years of service in what we call 'Sunny Luton' and this is because my fellow colleagues have become my second family...and we all rely on one another to make sure as Simno said "that we can get home for that beer in the fridge"....

I think this write up is a good summary...

Well, Mr. Citizen, it seems you've figured me out. I fit neatly into the category where you've placed me. I'm stereotyped, standardized, characterized, classified, grouped, and always typical. Unfortunately, the reverse is true. I can never figure you out.

From birth, you teach your children that I'm the devil, if they do anything bad I'll take them away. Then you're shocked when they identify/associate with my traditional enemy... the criminal! You accuse me of going too easy on criminals until I catch your kids doing wrong. You may take an hour for lunch and several tea breaks each day, but point me out as lazy for having one cup. You pride yourself on your manners, but think nothing of disrupting my meals with your troubles.

You go mental with the guy who cuts you up in traffic, but let me catch you doing the same thing and I'm picking on you. You know all the traffic laws...but you've never been given a single ticket you deserve. You shout "IDIOT" if you observe me driving fast to a call, but raise the roof if I take more than ten seconds to respond to your complaint.

You call it part of my job if someone hits me, but call it police brutality if I hit back. You wouldn't think of telling your dentist how to pull a tooth or your doctor how to take out an appendix, yet you are always willing to give me pointers on the law and telling me how to do my job.

You talk to me in a manner that would get you a bloody nose from anyone else, but expect me to take it without batting an eye.

You shout that something's got to be done to fight crime, but you can't be bothered to get involved.

You have no use for me at all, but of course it's OK if I change a flat for your wife, deliver your child in the back of the police car, or perhaps save your son's life with mouth to mouth breathing, or work many hours overtime looking for your lost daughter.

So Mr. Citizen, you can stand there on your soapbox and rant and rave about the way I do my work, calling me every name in the book, but never stop to think that your property, family, or maybe even your life depends on me or one of my colleagues.

Yes, Mr. Citizen, it's me the cop!


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

lol the lords prayer for plod eh mat, my locals in my area don't often parole on foot these days much, well the blue ring lads......or plastics as we call them lol. in the summer if we are working out front i regularly get peep peep as the lads drive by or a pull up and verbal abuse in a jokey way.

even worse when i still had the TT as it was off to a hairdressers convention gazz as they drove by if i was washing her.
(gary actually but i'll call it gazz to fit in)


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Amen.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Is that a quote from the independent guy on the fed site by the way?


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## Matthaus (Oct 29, 2011)

Gazzer....thats quality mate... 

Simno... and god bless.. :lol:


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## Matthaus (Oct 29, 2011)

simno44 said:


> Is that a quote from the independent guy on the fed site by the way?


I believe it was, I received it from a colleague awhile ago..


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

That guy is a legend!


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## Matthaus (Oct 29, 2011)

simno44 said:


> That guy is a legend!


Indeed he is....


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## Audiphil (Oct 23, 2012)

Really good to see we are united in praise for our officers, we have some of the best services in the world, too many times in society and on this forum are brave people subject to abuse and are under threat of not coming home.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Audiphil said:


> Really good to see we are united in praise for our officers, we have some of the best services in the world, too many times in society and on this forum are brave people subject to abuse and are under threat of not coming home.


+1


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## Matthaus (Oct 29, 2011)

Audiphil said:


> Really good to see we are united in praise for our officers, we have some of the best services in the world, too many times in society and on this forum are brave people subject to abuse and are under threat of not coming home.


 [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Il apologise now to those who know where this has been used. 
But it's something I like. And it's written on the back of a picture that stays religiously by my side at all times. 
It could be used for many a job where life of others, is put before life of your own.

"Stand by your glasses steady,
and drink to your comrades eyes.
a toast to the dead already, 
and hurrah for the next to die."

Especially those at war.


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## Matthaus (Oct 29, 2011)

simno44 said:


> Il apologise now to those who know where this has been used.
> But it's something I like. And it's written on the back of a picture that stays religiously by my side at all times.
> It could be used for many a job where life of others, is put before life of your own.
> 
> ...


Very meaningful and appropriate, I like it mate....


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

It's for everyone mate. Use as you wish. 
I first heard it during a funeral tribute. 
From the mouth of a man who was by his best friend and colleagues side when he died.

He spoke of those already gone,
And those that will no doubt pass,
and told of his partners last words. 
"Mine'l be a Stella Please Paul.. Hip hip?"

So.. At the end of his tribute. After lifting a plastic bag that had been at his feet through out.. and after a rustle from the middle of the church as his brothers, closest friends and colleges of the time did exactly the same.

Out came a good 20-25 cans of Stella .. "tSss"
Stand by your glasses steady. 
Drink to your comrades eyes. 
Here's a toast to the dead already. 
And a toast to the next who dies.

Was fitting to say the least.

As he walked by the coffin he placed his open can on a small empty table by its side, touched the coffin and said for everyone to hear. "Hooray"

Was one of the most touching things iv ever witnessed.

*Bring them home!* 
*Bring them home.. Now!*


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

.


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## Matthaus (Oct 29, 2011)

Wow, that must of been something very special.... and thankyou for sharing it...

I have been researching it, as it touched something inside of me when I read the words.
Your right it can be interpreted to suit...

It has been said that it was used by Spifire pilots as they went down in action.

It is a quote from a poem by Bartholomew Dowling. The Revel(Bartholomew Dowling)

Thanks Matt.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

That all rings a bell. 
Completely off track and a lot less touching but it was also used in one of "prison breaks" best scenes. 
It pops in during a speech by Theodore Bagwell *AKA teabag, following the death Of brad belleck. Who.. Interestingly played the part of a us prison marshal. That died at a sacrifice for the escaped convicts he was helping bring down a government force.

FYI for anyone that hasn't watched prison break. Get on to it!

Lol. However irrelevant if you search the speech and bagwell on YouTube he words it very well indeed!


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## Matthaus (Oct 29, 2011)

simno44 said:


> That all rings a bell.
> Completely off track and a lot less touching but it was also used in one of "prison breaks" best scenes.
> It pops in during a speech by Theodore Bagwell *AKA teabag, following the death Of brad belleck. Who.. Interestingly played the part of a us prison marshal. That died at a sacrifice for the escaped convicts he was helping bring down a government force.
> 
> ...


Funny you should say that as that came up when I was searching and believed that you we refering to that when you wrote
*Il apologise now to those who know where this has been used*

Haven't watched prison break, but I might just have to take you up on your recommendation....I did watch the you tube clip of bagwell....lol.

Cheers bud and as my colleagues always say to one another "stay safe"... :wink:

best get some zzzz as i'm on early shift..


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Prison break is fantastic. But you have to watch it properly. Non of this in the back ground lark. Lol.

Ph And just cling on during the 3rd series. It does pick up again I promise you! Lol.

And yeah.. That is what I was referring to. There's nothing wrong with it being used in that context and to be fair they do respect it and use it very well.

Enjoy mate. 
And as some of my more controversial colleagues say... "Stay out of the box" lol.


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## stevebeechTA (May 16, 2009)

Just seen this post and watched the program in disbelief. cant say any more than whats been said all ready, but I really take my hat off to the services especially when there working and in the back of there mind there having to think if the cps will do something or not.


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## ELVIS (Oct 7, 2012)

Shame we don't own time machines, twenty years ago laughing boy would have got a good shoeing in the cells.
Apparently you can't do it anymore :mrgreen:


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

He would also have received a much more appropriate sentence.


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## Matthaus (Oct 29, 2011)

simno44 said:


> He would also have received a much more appropriate sentence.


You are not wrong there mate, and will more than likely only serve half of the sentance.... :roll: 
and be back out on the streets dealing.... :evil:


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

mark will bare mu up on this one as i asked his advice about it before taking it further.

as we do work for the police and indeed my neice is a police motorcyclist, we decided to make an offer once a quarter or once a month to any outstanding officer that had been above and beyond for cheltenham to take their partner out for a meal on a local restaurant that we were going to open an account up with. so i spoke to some secretary at HQ and was told to mail her the details of the offer that would then be put infront of acting CS mick mathers. (gone now the plonker) offer turned down on grounds of possible bribery or some other political twoddle.
so i replied to him stating that we as a company wouldn't be involved in anyway shape or form apart from picking up the tab....no responce he just ignored me!!!! so daughter has been to asda and picked up several large tins of chocs and biscuits and dropped them off at lansdown cop shop with a thank you card from us at the forge. they accepted that np's just not a meal lol


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Fantastic idea that! And lovely to hear. 
I can sort of see why it was refused but that doesn't mean to say I don't think the reasoning behind it should have been over looked and a way around it found.

Sounds lovely mate.


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## ELVIS (Oct 7, 2012)

Matthaus said:


> simno44 said:
> 
> 
> > He would also have received a much more appropriate sentence.
> ...


Isnt that is how its always worked beside lifers and more recent IPPs? (oh, and Borstal :mrgreen: ) [smiley=book2.gif]


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## slineTT (Feb 24, 2006)

An amazing job from the coppers involved. Criminals in UK are so lucky, in any other country, assaulting a police officer like this, the criminal would have been punched a thousand times by now and no one would even ask why. Let alone in USA he would have 30 bullets on him by now...... :x


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## zltm089 (Jul 27, 2009)

I saw this as well!!!

That's the problem here, why did the two cops not use their weapon (if they have any) at the very first sign of resistance. Fair enough that guy was bloody fast and strong and one handcuff was already on him.

Even when he was finally down, the other cop did not punch him and hesitate...

I tell you why, because this whole messed up system will be suing those good cops if they broke that tw*t's leg with a stick!....all that human rights do gooder hug a thug rubbish....

same thing goes for the nurse that committed suicide after the prank call of the Australian DJs, yes the DJs are just silly and stupid but they are not entirely responsible for the nurse's death. It's the confidentiality, do gooder health and safety hospital paperwork and all other "policies" that people get from the top that causes all this. Imagine, if she didn't commit suicide...all the do gooders health and safety maniacs would be shouting for her to resign and the media would be all over it....


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

To be fair. The spray was Brought out in good time. It's more effective than a Baton causing harm that adrenalin can easily block.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

IMO guns are a slippery slope. Would not work in the UK

I feel we have the right level at the moment. Armed response is a given.. And needed. But not every day officers.

You get what you give these days. We don't need that.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

simno44 said:


> To be fair. The spray was Brought out in good time. It's more effective than a Baton causing harm that adrenalin can easily block.


+1 ive had a wiff of it a few years ago by accident and bugger me it stings!!!! can't the cops get a protection tab they take so they can just spray anyone that vaguely resists or even looks wrong


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## zltm089 (Jul 27, 2009)

simno44 said:


> To be fair. The spray was Brought out in good time. It's more effective than a Baton causing harm that adrenalin can easily block.


well...it's easy for me to comment while sitting at my computer with a cup of tea....but, looking at the video, it's the time when he started getting aggressive and tried to get out of the car....they should have sprayed him....

i hate to see good people getting hurt...


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## zltm089 (Jul 27, 2009)

from another member

Question:

How do you tell the difference between a British Police Officer, an Australian Police Officer and an American Police Officer?

Answer:

First - Lets pose the following scenario and consider the potential outcome(s):

You're on duty by yourself walking on a deserted street late at night. Suddenly, an armed man with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, raises the knife, and lunges at you. You are carrying a Glock .40, and you are an expert shot, however you have only
a split second to react before he reaches you. What do you do?

BRITISH POLICE OFFICER:

Firstly the officer must consider the man's Human Rights;

1) Does the man look poor or oppressed?
2) Is he newly arrived in this country and does not yet understand the law?
3) Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack?
4) Am I dressed provocatively?
5) Could I run away?
6) Could I possibly swing my gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand?
7) Should I try and negotiate with him to discuss his wrong doings?
8) Does the Glock have appropriate safety built into it?
9) Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society?
10) Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me?
11) If I were to grab his knees and hold on, would he still want to stab and kill me?
12) If I raise my gun and he turns and runs away, do I get blamed if he falls over, knocks his head and kills himself? .
13) If I shoot and wound him, and lose the subsequent court case, does he have the opportunity to sue me, cost me my job, my credibility and the loss of my family home?

AUSTRALIAN POLICE OFFICER:

BANG!

AMERICAN POLICE OFFICER:

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! 'click'....

(Sergeant arrives at scene later and remarks: 'Nice grouping!)


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Resistance is all that's needed. And discretion of an officer. 
Red tape and guidelines are obviously applicable. But it's a god send to the police. 
It's something that can disable most but is not a brutal approach and only inflicts fairly short term "harm" if you can call it that.

Stinging eyes is a world apart from a serious blow to the leg/arm or worse a poor guided blow to the side that can have serious consciences with ribs and bleeding etc.

There is very little a crim can claim against the spray. And there is very little an officer can do wrong in comparison to a baton that can cause serious harm when used to forcefully.

The only down side is obviously the fact that its design leads to officers frequently falling victim to it them selves. But it's a price worth paying in my eyes.. No pun intended. 
I wear glasses so that can help lol.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

I started off in the job with nothing but a wooden stick in my pocket and some cuffs in a pouch on my belt.

In my time I've been given several variations of body armour, rigid cuffs, side-handled batons, hasps, CS sprays, a taser, a baton gun, a Glock17 SLP, an MP5 and a Heckler and Koch G36. Other than the cuffs I've rarely used any of them, and some of them (thankfully) never at all. For the police officer using any kind of force can turn into a complete nightmare. One day all you're doing is your honest best to do a tough job in very difficult circumstances and the next, before you know it, you're facing criminal charges and the prospect of going to prison.

And how does that happen? Well, because someone does just exactly what has been done here - and from the comfort of an armchair looks at a bit of CCTV footage, or a photograph and says, "Shouldn't they have done . . . . ?" What we in the job call "the nine o'clock shudders". It's all well and good in hindsight dissecting what an officer has done, but when it's right there and in your face it's a completely different matter altogether. The training really isn't adequate enough to ensure you instinctively react in exactly the most appropriate way - there simply aren't enough officers out there to afford the luxury of the time needed to achieve that - so when it all goes off you've just got to get your head straight as quickly as you can and try and think your way through it. More than likely all you're going to do is grab onto someone and desperately try to bring them under control while you try and work out what the hell you can do - which is pretty much what these two guys did.

I doubt anyone else could have done better. I know I couldn't. It's a credit to them that they just kept hold of him despite the sustained assaults they suffered and even more of a credit that they came out of it giving nobody any cause to criticise their actions.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Rightly said!


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## Demessiah (Jan 27, 2009)

Ive no doubt that if the police officers didnt have that TV camera following them around they would have given that guy a good stomping.

Im not saying he wouldnt have deserved it though. Sometimes a good beating has its place :twisted:


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Demessiah said:


> Ive no doubt that if the police officers didnt have that TV camera following them around they would have given that guy a good stomping.
> 
> Im not saying he wouldnt have deserved it though. Sometimes a good beating has its place :twisted:


With big brother watching? 
Don't think so somehow. That's not the attitude an officer should have. 
Those that do. Don't/won't last long at all.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

tougher fines would end half of the crap the guys have to go through on a week end evenings with the binge drinking lot. first offence £100 2nd offence £500 and banned from town for six months. maybe they would think twice about lashing out to punch or attack someone. even curfew for them is a good idea to mess with their social lives when their m8's are off up town and they have to be in from 9pm till 9am


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## Tangerine Knight (Jul 25, 2010)

everytime we have to get our cs,baton or tazer out in my force we have to fill out a conflict resolution form [i know] get the sgt to endorse it and send it to psd

more paperwork


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## t'mill (Jul 31, 2012)

Those 2 chaps showed immense restraint and have been rightly commended. The fact CS was used rather than a baton demonstrates that even in the face of adversity, the cop was thinking about duty of care to the suspect AND his use of force because CS is graded a lower use of force than striking someone with an ASP/baton. As has already been said, striking with a baton in the wrong place can cause significant injury. I also note on the footage that at one point the cop raised his arm with a clenched fist and had a clear split second shot to punch the perp in the head, but didn't take the shot. Again showing he was thinking of a duty of care to a violent offender, and no doubt even in the melee he was very conscious that many members of the public were filming on their phones.

The public have this disgust towards the police if they see an officer punch somebody, and I'm in no doubt they would have voiced their concerns if that cop had have executed that strike. Why should our loyal police officers have to go through this thought process in the midst of a violent struggle in fear of a public backlash? They should be allowed to use the powers they have at their disposal, which includes any use of force if its proportionate, justified and lawful without ill-placed public scrutiny.

I also have to mention the dogged determination of the officer holding the cuffs. Amazing! Bulldog like determination clamped on even after being punched with a key. If it wasn't for him the offender would have definitely escaped.

Hats off to both cops 8)


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## SVStu (Dec 11, 2006)

I saw this on the telly, they later said he was caught with some class A, I assume this must have been the real reason he kicked off rather than a bit of weed (or lots!).

I think the two officers showed remarkable restraint, especially the one on the radio that actually thought he had hit the offender when he spoke to his sarg/inspector later. You can almost see him think no I shouldn't punch him in the head, not sure I could show as much restraint.

One quick question but I thought all police radio's had a "panic button" and wondered why he didn't hit this rather than try and use one hand for the radio and one for the offender?? Or did he need to give location etc as the panic button wont relay this info?

Hindsight and all that, easy to say now.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Imminent/immediate threat to life mate. Or that's how I see it anyway

Or else this button would be used on a daily basis by most.

One of the boys on Boxing Day 03 used his following the shooting. 
That sort of goes to how what level of emergency it's there for.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

a sickening and eerie feeling hearing that tone come over the waves. 
Iv never witnessed it first hand over my own radio but I have been with lads while training when a call has been made. and you could tell the two lads I was with where running past happenings in their head and preparing for the worst.
With them.. They knew what to do.. They showed a calm attitude and waited patiently for coms to deal with the situation.. Rather than every officer trying to be a hero and clogging the waves. 
On this occasion thank god.. it was a radio that had been run over by a taxi while tackling a shop lifter.

The words "all units stand down" came as a relief to say the least. Followed by a quick radio check of all units.

It's something I hope I come across as little as possible in my time. But it's also something important to be prepared for.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

I'm sure others will agree.. 
That feeling of helplessness is possibly the worst place to be while a colleague, or friend could be down and in need of help urgently. 
Again... One more reason why funding cuts behind the scenes (coms and dispatch) can be crippling to safety and people's lives.


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