# Bruntingthorpe Gatherings?



## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Does anybody know when the next one is?

I just downloaded this http://www.pistonheadstv.com/videos/263.wmv (save target as) and now I want to go! I didn't realise such events existed. I'm not sure what the protocol is, but even as a spectator it would be awesome!


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

Looks like fun to watch, but I'm not a great fan of doing drag strip stuff cos it knackers the car and the airfield surface at Bruntingthorpe is rough and throws up stones.

Gimme a proper track any day.

Rob


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> Does anybody know when the next one is?
> 
> I just downloaded this http://www.pistonheadstv.com/videos/263.wmv (save target as) and now I want to go! I didn't realise such events existed. I'm not sure what the protocol is, but even as a spectator it would be awesome!


Mr P, have you been asleep for the last 12 months :lol: I went to VMAX 6 & posted here & several other forums about how great it was. Once you've attended one of these you automatically get put on the advanced list for future VMAX's. I could not attend VMAX 7 or 8 (VMAX 7 had 5th Gear do some filming & Tiff Neddell was playing with some of the cars). VMAX 8 is the video you'd posted the link to & VMAX 9 is the 18th Sept (weekend after the Ring trip). I'm defo at that one 8) & i'm fairly sure their will be a couple of spare places, once Craig (the organiser) posts the details up on Pistonheads & various other forums.

When i attended VMAX 6, almost half the cars in attendance were TVR's, but i believe given the very high speeds, some of the previous TVR attendees have dropped out, so only about 20% are noe TVR owners.

At VMAX 6, a couple of the TVR's suffered roof removal at around 150MPH which is pretty scary.

Get in touch if you want further info.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

b3ves said:


> Looks like fun to watch, but I'm not a great fan of doing drag strip stuff cos it knackers the car and the airfield surface at Bruntingthorpe is rough and throws up stones.
> 
> Gimme a proper track any day.
> 
> Rob


The actual runway is not too bad Rob & they sweep the entire length the day before VMAX. A couple of CSL's were their at VMAX 6 when i attended & i grabbed a passenger ride in one of them. Their are a couple of CSL's who always attend, as well as a new M5 at the last one.

AmD also sent down that crazy Bentley Conti, running on 23" wheels


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Paul

Cheers for that, I didn't realise it was the VMAX days that were in the video. I remember them well 'cos I posted the link on S2Ki when they were all commenting on your car. 

I shall certainly be looking out for the next one, but after what has told me about the surface and debris, it will probably just be as a spectator.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> Paul
> 
> Cheers for that, I didn't realise it was the VMAX days that were in the video. I remember them well 'cos I posted the link on S2Ki when they were all commenting on your car.
> 
> I shall certainly be looking out for the next one, but after what has told me about the surface and debris, it will probably just be as a spectator.


Excellent.

Craig tries to organise about 4 per year & as said, the next one is the 18th September.

No need to worry about the surface & debris, they sweep the runway the day before VMAX & it is much better than the very early events. You can also elect not to run drag style, thus you'd have no other car alonside or in-front of you.

You should defo try to get down, as with your new car you'd have an excellent shot with many of the cars who attend. The S2000 although a great car, would not come out too great in a VMAX scenario.

As regards spectator runs, the organisers are not too keen on spectator only, as they want runners, not riders. If you think about it, anyone could just turn up & try to blag passenger rides in some very exotic cars & not pay a penny, where as the runners have paid around Â£150 to drive.

If you want, you're more than welcome to attend with me (or any other) & arrive as a passenger/guest of mine, they have no problem with that, they just don't appreciate strangers turning up un-invited for passenger blasts.

If you don't fancy that, contact Craig directly (VMAX) thread on Pistonheads & ask once he officially announces the 18th Sept date.

Believe me though, it's defo worth paying & driving.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> You should defo try to get down, as with your new car you'd have an excellent shot with many of the cars who attend.


The yellow T350 with anthracite spiders in the vid seems to be doing well, so i'd defo like to give it a go if there is no debris or chance of the car being damaged by surface sh*t left lying about.



W7 PMC said:


> As regards spectator runs, the organisers are not too keen on spectator only, as they want runners, not riders. If you think about it, anyone could just turn up & try to blag passenger rides in some very exotic cars & not pay a penny, where as the runners have paid around Â£150 to drive.


Yeah i hear what you are saying. I was hoping there would be a spectators area so you can just lap up the noise and atmos, without getting in the way. 



W7 PMC said:


> If you want, you're more than welcome to attend with me (or any other) & arrive as a passenger/guest of mine


Cheers Paul, ill bear that in mind if i decide not to take mine.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Kev,

Another option is pay to attend & of course arrive in your TVR, then decide on the day if you fancy running yours (which you will  ), but head out on some passenger laps for the 1st couple of hours (as an attendee, taking passenger laps in other cars is encouraged). This way any debris remaining would have been well disposed of & you can run some laps on your own in the afternoon.

By lunchtime, the starts tend to be fully staggered, so just jump in your car & run whenever you like.


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> At VMAX 6, a couple of the TVR's suffered roof removal at around 150MPH which is pretty scary.


Why does this not surprise me :lol: 
Typical TVR


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> Craig tries to organise about 4 per year & as said, the next one is the 18th September.
> 
> No need to worry about the surface & debris, they sweep the runway the day before VMAX & it is much better than the very early events. You can also elect not to run drag style, thus you'd have no other car alonside or in-front of you.


Bummer, that's the weekend when I'll be at the Nurburgring in the Exige.

It's nice to know that I've got a VMAX-worthy car - do you know what the CSL's managed to get up to? I've been told that derestricted they will do 180mph+

Rob


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

b3ves said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Craig tries to organise about 4 per year & as said, the next one is the 18th September.
> ...


Rob,

I've posted below the speeds from Vmax8.

Noteable performances are the 2 CSL's, 1 managed 159mph, the other managed 169mph. My guess is that the 159 was restricted & the 169 de-restricted. The standard RS6 managed 168 & that was allegedly restricted. I managed 176mph with just the AmD re-map & Milltek at Vmax6, so hoping to break into the low to mid 180's at Vmax9 with the Sportec modifications. The brand new M5 only managed 164mph, exactly the same as the older model & 4mph slower than a standard RS6. All these speeds are accurate & are taken on prof radar equipment.

Gman Ultima GTR 192 
PhatGixer SL65 191 
Rods 996TT DMS 191 
Jason360hasgone Ford GT 189 
Dazren 996TT X50 188 
911Nutter GT2 CS 183 
Simonspider Murci 183 
DeR 993TT 182 
Turbosboy 993TT 'S' 181 
Karon 996TT DMS 181 
Leon S Ruf 993 Rturbo 180 
MOD500 993TT 175 
S3am GT3mk2 175 
Leean GT3mk2 174 
Leon S Conti GT 171 
Davetherave1970 Cerb 171 
Billy83 CSL 169 
Jeremyc DB7 Vantage 168 
Essex76 RS6 168 
Bluesatin Maserati 4200 166 
AdamT M5 (E60) 164 
Dazren M5 (E39) 164 
Trackdemon NSX 160 
Badapple CSL 159 
Hughesie2 Chim500 157 
Smiffy Impreza P1 154 
GuyR BMW 545i 154 
Gazboy Supra 153 
GregE240 500SL 153 
Iaint RX7 153 
pdr479 Esprit 152 
Anniesdad Boxter 2.7 149 
Dunc Aston V8 148 
Oggs Chim400 146 
Sonic Nonsense Astra 144 
Davey S1 Exige S2 143 
Muncher VX220 139

Shame you'll miss Vmax9, as they are truly excellent events & taking passenger rides in some very exotic motors is defo worth the trip.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Paul, Did you feel you had long enough to actually hit top speed or was it still climbing?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> Paul, Did you feel you had long enough to actually hit top speed or was it still climbing?


Not even close to long enough.

At Elvington on Friday, i had the speedo reading 188mph which is only 2mph less than it read at Bruntingthorpe when i was timed at exactly 176mph. The run on Friday was from an almost standing start over almost the same distance. At Bruntingthorpe you can hit the runway at about 55mph if you take the sharp right hander well. This gives you some idea of the differences.

At Bruntingthorpe, i still had well over 1400rpm to play with, but as the tiptronic gearbox in the RS6 is only 5 speed, it makes 5th gear a very very long gear so rising from 160 - 180mph takes quite some time. The car only changes from 4th to 5th at about 160mph. I think i'd need about another 2 miles to reach over 200mph, but i'm 110% positive the car could reach around 205ish mph given long enough.

If conditions are favourable, i'm gonna give the top speed a shot at Nurburg, as the long straight heading to the end of the lap i believe is over 3 miles long & that should get me fairly close to 200mph


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> If conditions are favourable, i'm gonna give the top speed a shot at Nurburg, as the long straight heading to the end of the lap i believe is over 3 miles long & that should get me fairly close to 200mph


Nah, it is if you're racing there. On public days you have to come off 1/2 way down the straight.

Also, IMO you would never safely get to 200mph even if the full straight was open - its too bumpy, most of it is quite steep uphill and there is the left kink to deal with. I think you'd have to be seriously committed to take that flat out.

Your best bet for high speed is the section of shallow lefts following Bergwerk. But even so you'll never get that fast. Again too bumpy, uphill and the left turns will mean you will not have the bottle to go through there at 150mph.

The other fast section is after Pflanzgarten, but again there are kinks in the road that will keep your speed down.

Also forgot the part between Flugplatz and Schwedenkreuz - this can be fast if you're committed but Schwedenkreuz is where people get killed.

I would be (pleasantly) surprised if you hit anywhere above 150mph on your first visit - I managed about 130 (indicated) once or twice - you'll have too much respect (rightly) for the circuit and the humps and bumps prevent you from going absolutely flat out. Its not about the capability of the car, its the confidence of the driver.

You are welcome to prove me wrong though - just check your life insurance before you go! :wink:


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

As Carlos says you won't do it at the 'ring. I find I can hit the same top speed uphill on the rear "straight" as I can on the home straight but to it being longer and more time at full throttle.

Last year was the first time in the S4 and IIRC I got 135-140mph. The back "straight" is a bit of a ride though. 8)

p.s. I've never taken Schwedenkreuz at the limit of the car's ability or mine. I always lift before. With it's history it's not a place I want to go off. Classic place for lift off oversteer in to barrier. :?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Cheers for that & having never been to the ring, i just assumed that section would be open to my test, but it it's not that safe to push so hard, then you can be sure i won't be.

Guess i've had too much time driving the Ring on GT4, looks well up for the challenge on the game 

You can be sure i will defo not be pushing my car to its limits, so i'll have to keep this test to runways only.


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

Carlos said:


> Also, IMO you would never safely get to 200mph even if the full straight was open - its too bumpy, most of it is quite steep uphill and there is the left kink to deal with. I think you'd have to be seriously committed to take that flat out.


or with bald tyres in the rain, eh ScoTTy... :wink:


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> You can be sure i will defo not be pushing my car to its limits, so i'll have to keep this test to runways only.


There is a section of derestricted Autobahn close by to the 'ring. My suggestion would be to go out one evening for a vmax hoon whilst over there in September.


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> As Carlos says you won't do it at the 'ring. I find I can hit the same top speed uphill on the rear "straight" as I can on the home straight but to it being longer and more time at full throttle.
> 
> Last year was the first time in the S4 and IIRC I got 135-140mph. The back "straight" is a bit of a ride though. 8)
> 
> p.s. I've never taken Schwedenkreuz at the limit of the car's ability or mine. I always lift before. With it's history it's not a place I want to go off. Classic place for lift off oversteer in to barrier. :?


I would agree, absolutely.

On the Nissan Skyline DVD the fastest that Dirk Schoysman got up to in a 500bhp Nismo Skyline was nudging 180mph on the run down to Schwedenkreuz from Flugplatz. The only way he got to this speed was on the exit of Flugplatz, he carried stonking speed and even then the only way he got to 180 was the canon-like acceleration of the carâ€¦.the run down to Schwedenkreuz is nearly 1KM long but nowhere near enough to get to 200mph unless you are in a Le Mans car. Turning into Schwedenkreuz, he braked and dropped it a peg at about 150 but unless you are him or other such a driving God, I would not recommend anything approaching this speed unless you want a one of those certificates that Hamster Hammond got on Top Gear last night for breaking the world barrel roll record.

Soâ€¦.your best bet to go for â€œ200â€ on the way over is on a *certain* stretch of autoroute which on our way over, was almost deserted. My sat nav indicated a rather surprising speed that no doubt your erâ€¦â€œbeastâ€ (ahem) would be able to exceed, with ease. But on reflection it was a rather risky surge of jubilation AND the Belgian/French coppers are rather â€œkeenâ€ so beware. 
I do very much wish I was joining you lot :wink:


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

I think a better stat would be whether you can top my 145mph (indicated)down FuchsrÃ¶hre (Foxhole)


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

From this extract from "Sport Auto" magazine, it appears that the fastest point on the Nurburgring track when the DÃ¶ttinger HÃ¶he straight is closed is the run up to Schwedenkreuz, where a GT3 can reach 250km/h, which is about 155mph.

Interesting, both the GT3 and the CSL 'only' reached 144 mph down FuchsrÃ¶hre, which is probably not much more than I've managed flat out in my Exige. I feel better now, because I couldn't imagine myself ever going any faster


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

b3ves said:


> or with bald tyres in the rain, eh ScoTTy... :wink:


You've been listening to Dan but I've got a picture which shows them with at least 3.5-4mm......which wasn't enough! :roll: :lol:

I've been through the FuchsrÃ¶hre in my S4 at around 130-135mph (wasn't looking too closely!  ) and in this heavy car I don't think I'd want to go much quicker.

Have you seen Derek Bell's Porsche video through there!


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2005)

b3ves said:


> I think a better stat would be whether you can top my 145mph (indicated)down FuchsrÃ¶hre (Foxhole)


damn ! never got past 120mph (or won't want to go faster!) but even at that speed at I hit the bottom of the foxhole, it was one very scary moment. every time ! loved it though !


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

b3ves said:


> I think a better stat would be whether you can top my 145mph (indicated)down FuchsrÃ¶hre (Foxhole)


Now then Monsieur Beves.......as experienced a track dayer and "ringer" (arf) as you are you should know not to be giving people speed targets on a track! Are you mental? :twisted: :wink: 

The last time this happened, that f*ckwit from bookatrack started boasting - in the middle of the "safety briefing session" I hasten to add - about corner entry speed at into school corner at Anglesey.....









....saying he once did at at 110mph.....so I go hammering out the pits, clanging up the gears......70....80....90....yup this should do it for the first lap....turn in....oops....too fast [smiley=oops.gif] back off back off......eh? what's happening? [smiley=vulcan.gif] Ah! that'll be the back end coming round then....slap slappety slap tank slapper.

Return to pits and change laundry......

Paul, I suggest taking foxhole at a super slow speed to start with then build it up..... in fact this philosophy applies more at Schwedenkreuz and Flugplatz than anywhere else......Foxhole is actually quite a favourable corner :roll:


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

b3ves said:


> I'm not a great fan of doing drag strip stuff cos it knackers the car
> 
> Rob


ragging it round a track doesn't then :roll:


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

nah! Coz that's just the same as he drives on the road! :lol:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

You can be 101% sure that i'll be taking things easy for the sighting laps & 1st few laps on the Sunday. I'll gradually build up speed with my rising confidence levels. I'm in my own car, so won't be trying to find the limits of performance, handling & adhesion. May have a top end blast on the way their or the way back, all depends on traffic, conditions & the friendly police.

Will be good to try out a few of the driving/handling tips i was taught on the Audi Driving Experience.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

b3ves said:


> Looks like fun to watch, but I'm not a great fan of doing drag strip stuff cos it knackers the car and the airfield surface at Bruntingthorpe is rough and throws up stones.
> 
> Gimme a proper track any day.
> 
> Rob


Agree, although i used to do a few Palmer days there before the bedford site was developed. It was not very good tho, as it is too flat and the coned corners could be difficult to read.

There is just no skill in going fast in a straight line - merely a function of power. I'd be thinking "tyres, tyres, tyres..."

It hardly sorts out the men from the boys, unlike a challenging track with timed laps in the same machinery.

But each to his own. Personally I have little desire to go much faster than 130-140 at the end of any straight, and would trade ultimate top speed and grunt for lighter weight, better brakes and stickier track bieased tyres and better ultimate grip. When i do Caterham days, one seldom gets above probably 110-115mph before it all gets too windy, but boy do you get there fast out of those corners and boy do you take it right into the apex on the next one, leavng those hefty power houses boiling their brake fluid and grinding their tyres in your wake.

Fastest I have seen is 145mph in a 996C2 at Thruxton at end of straight before braking to 30 mph for the chicane. That involved taking a lot of speed through Church, which is a heart in mouth leap in faith corner that requires commitment - (or an instructor alongside you yelling "POWER, POWER, DO NOT FCUKING BACK OFF"....    )

I think Rob has by far the best artillery here for tracking - Exige, CSL (although you do _need _those trick Michelins Rob :wink both perfect tools and, in right hands, as quick as most other road cars, regardless of power, around a track on constant flying laps carrying the speed. Weight is the enemy.

I am jealous.


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## TTwiggy (Jul 20, 2004)

I'm off to Bruntingthorpe next friday to drive some cars with UKTV People, think we have an SLK 280 (why not 55 amg!), golf GTI (  ) saab 93 sportwagon and VW Tourag (  ) to rag round the Top Gear track...... will report back with full journalistic findings!

Richard


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> (although you do _need _those trick Michelins Rob :wink


I've got a set in the shed just waiting for the wheels to arrive


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