# TTRS with ESP/Wheelspin issues?



## sevy (Sep 14, 2011)

Hi all - am hoping those of you more mechanically-minded than me might have some ideas&#8230;

For the last week or so, my RS has felt very 'skittish' when putting my foot down. The best way I can describe it is that it feels like the front wheels are spinning & then ESP is trying to kick in to correct the spin. A couple of times the ESP amber light has appeared in the dash for a second or two, but most of the time there are no warning lights. I always drive with ESP fully on.

The strange thing is this is happening whilst moving at speed. For example, I can be pootling along at 40mph in 3rd gear, and then plant my foot to overtake and the above symptoms kick in. So far it's happened when in 2nd/3rd/4th gears whilst already moving at decent speed, and most of the time whilst going in a straight line on even roads.

At first I put it down to the roads being so wet & slippery, but I had the same problem at the weekend when the roads were dry. After owning the car for a year (and quattro cars for several years before that) I love how 'glued' to the road it feels in pretty much any conditions, but this problem means all of a sudden I can't trust what the car is going to do.

My car is entirely stock, a manual, and the tyres are all fine (Michelin Pilot Super Sports all round - rears have approx 5mm tread left and the fronts 7-8mm). It's just coming up to 50k miles on it's original clutch, so I thought that might be the problem, but it doesn't seem to be showing any obvious signs of wear - no slipping that I can detect, gear changes are smooth with no clunking or noise, and no burning smell.

So, before I book it in to be looked at, any thoughts on what this might be?

Cheers in advance&#8230;


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## Chris**** (Aug 9, 2011)

There's a fair bit of torque being sent through the wheels, and the cold damp conditions don't help. I was going to say tyres, but you are running my favorite tyre, so no problems there. Check pressures maybe, but should be fine.

Coming from a 470bhp M3, the TT seems amazing. Well it does not try and kill me at every turn 

I have Pirelli Pzero Rosso, and they are coping. But I am on standard power at the moment. Bit of under steer, but certainly not losing grip in a. Straight line, well in 3rd or 4th.

Tracking can play a part, but again you would see uneven wear on the tyres.


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

What you describe suggests that the Haldex unit and/or its controller are not working correctly. The top suspect would be the hydraulic pump motor or its electrical plug or fuse.

The first check would be to get the car scanned with VCDS or the dealer VAS equipment to check for fault codes.


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## SuperRS (Mar 7, 2012)

Hydraulic pump or rear diff


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## Chris**** (Aug 9, 2011)

SuperRS said:


> Hydraulic pump or rear diff


Has there been issues with the Pumps or rear diffs? As when I was looking into the RS, could not see any issues


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## SuperRS (Mar 7, 2012)

Chris**** said:
 

> SuperRS said:
> 
> 
> > Hydraulic pump or rear diff
> ...


2 or 3 people have had them replaced under warranty


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## jimojameso (Oct 3, 2012)

Sounds like haldex to me. Get it booked in for further investigation. Shouldn't be behaving like that especially with that rubber!!


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## billyali86 (Jul 26, 2011)

Sorry for going off topic Chris, e92 M3?

470bhp seems a really odd figure to end up at


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## Chris**** (Aug 9, 2011)

billyali86 said:


> Sorry for going off topic Chris, e92 M3?
> 
> 470bhp seems a really odd figure to end up at


Well just under, had a full Akrapovic evolution exhaust, custom map, various new sensors to make sure all was ok. The primary cats are the main reason for only seeing 414bhp. Get rid of them, or use 100 cel and they are 450-460 easily. Plus the standard rear box is restrictive.


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## billyali86 (Jul 26, 2011)

The V8 mated with the Akra must have sound gorgeous. Must have cost a pretty penny too!

Most people tend to go Eisenmann but from what I have heard the quality of Akra is unmatched!

If you don't mind me asking, what made you get rid of the M3 and go for the TT RS?


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## Chris**** (Aug 9, 2011)

billyali86 said:


> The V8 mated with the Akra must have sound gorgeous. Must have cost a pretty penny too!
> 
> Most people tend to go Eisenmann but from what I have heard the quality of Akra is unmatched!


Just under 5k. But saves 25kg, full titanium with titanium tips, no drone! And sounded like a supercar. Response was amazing, and I do miss that. Even in 2nd you could just hook the rear end out easily. Standard the 92 M3 is pretty dull in a straight line IMO.


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## billyali86 (Jul 26, 2011)

If you don't mind me asking, what made you get rid of the M3 and go for the TT RS?

Any mods on the RS yet?


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## Chris**** (Aug 9, 2011)

billyali86 said:


> If you don't mind me asking, what made you get rid of the M3 and go for the TT RS?
> 
> Any mods on the RS yet?


Had M3's for the last few years, and the 92 just for a year. But bar a charger there was no where to go with it. Amazing car, but trying to put the power down in anything other than a hot dry day, well was fun but also frustrating.

I wanted something smaller and lighter, and turbo so I can hit high numbers. Plus 4wd to get the power down. R8 was on the list, but need 2+2 or 4 seats. The 1M I really wanted, but again it will wheel spin in 4th (mate has a Valencia orange) and try to kill you (watch the vid on YouTube of one in Japan, just turns round with no drama on a main road lol).

So the TT RS was the perfect car in my eyes. Fairly cheap to run and buy, and potential is massive. Handles very well, with only a bit of under steer so far. Bit to tame at the moment, but will sort that.

Plans,well yes. Mainly suspension and of course power for the moment. Start with a stage 1 map, full exhaust if they will make me one


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## SuperRS (Mar 7, 2012)

Chris**** said:


> billyali86 said:
> 
> 
> > If you don't mind me asking, what made you get rid of the M3 and go for the TT RS?
> ...


Ahhhh good to see another true enthusiast in the TTRS camp.

If say intercooler before exhaust on the TTRS, as the stock one heat soaks straight away and takes ages to recover.

And funnily enough I have a near new forge "race" TTRS intercooler for sale for 600 pounds! Bargain!


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## Chris**** (Aug 9, 2011)

SuperRS said:


> Chris**** said:
> 
> 
> > billyali86 said:
> ...


Are you James mate by any chance? He's just got an Alpine M3.


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## SuperRS (Mar 7, 2012)

James with a m3 doesn't ring a bell. What did he have before that?


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## Chris**** (Aug 9, 2011)

SuperRS said:


> James with a m3 doesn't ring a bell. What did he have before that?


Modded S3.

Can you send some pics :wink:


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## billyali86 (Jul 26, 2011)

Know exactly what you mean mate, was trying to decide between 1m and TT RS when I was looking. C63 coupe was also on the list but fuel bills would have left dust in my pocket!

A good friend has got VO 1m also, his car is at stage 2. Sitting at around 430bhp, he has an eisenmann on it along Revo sport sport carbon splitter. Fun car but a handful, a lot of fish tailing even on a dry dry day a in straight line!

Pics of both our cars last summer 









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

He's laughing....his car is still worth what he paid for it!


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## Chris**** (Aug 9, 2011)

billyali86 said:


> Know exactly what you mean mate, was trying to decide between 1m and TT RS when I was looking. C63 coupe was also on the list but fuel bills would have left dust in my pocket!
> 
> A good friend has got VO 1m also, his car is at stage 2. Sitting at around 430bhp, he has an eisenmann on it along Revo sport sport carbon splitter. Fun car but a handful, a lot of fish tailing even on a dry dry day a in straight line!
> 
> ...


I bet yours just leaves his though doesn't it? They are tunable, and stock turbos are good for just under 500. And not that much to get them there. The N54 is a good engine, but does have a few little issues like anything.

I think I made the right choice. Plus the insides of the 1M are still a one series, and not the best!


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## billyali86 (Jul 26, 2011)

Not had a run against since his has been modded. We did a few rolling runs when he was standard and I was APR stage 1, TT was comfortably quicker. I have the updated map and a forge FMIC now

Need to get out again and give it a try, but weathers been crap lately and its just pointless as the TT would pee all over it in the wet. I have a slight inkling that the 1m may be slightly quicker at the top end but thats just me speculating!

N54 has a number of HPFP issues if i remember correctly. I do not think there are any reported issue with the 5 pot in our cars.


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## n0ct0 (Jan 2, 2013)

Same symptoms as my TTS had. Turned out the Haldex pump had failed.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


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## Blacknerd (Apr 10, 2012)

n0ct0 said:


> Same symptoms as my TTS had. Turned out the Haldex pump had failed.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


At what mileage did fail?


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## SuperRS (Mar 7, 2012)

Chris**** said:


> SuperRS said:
> 
> 
> > James with a m3 doesn't ring a bell. What did he have before that?
> ...


Ok I think I know who you mean. Will get some pics for ya


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## sevy (Sep 14, 2011)

Chris**** said:


> There's a fair bit of torque being sent through the wheels, and the cold damp conditions don't help. I was going to say tyres, but you are running my favorite tyre, so no problems there. Check pressures maybe, but should be fine.
> 
> Coming from a 470bhp M3, the TT seems amazing. Well it does not try and kill me at every turn
> 
> ...


Thanks Chris. Yes the TT is a fantastic fun car to drive in my opinion...or at least mine will be again when I get this problem sorted!

I had checked the tyre pressures at the weekend, and the tyre wear is even...cheers for the tips though. Sounds from others like haldex is the likely suspect so will get that checked out...


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## sevy (Sep 14, 2011)

brittan said:


> What you describe suggests that the Haldex unit and/or its controller are not working correctly. The top suspect would be the hydraulic pump motor or its electrical plug or fuse.
> 
> The first check would be to get the car scanned with VCDS or the dealer VAS equipment to check for fault codes.





SuperRS said:


> Hydraulic pump or rear diff





jimojameso said:


> Sounds like haldex to me. Get it booked in for further investigation. Shouldn't be behaving like that especially with that rubber!!


Thanks all for your suggestions. Will see if someone near me has VCDS to scan for fault codes to verify what the problem is and then get it booked in to get sorted.

Cheers...


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## sevy (Sep 14, 2011)

n0ct0 said:


> Same symptoms as my TTS had. Turned out the Haldex pump had failed.


Thanks for confirming. Out of interest, did you get it fixed by Audi? If so, roughly how much did it cost or was it covered under warranty?


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## SuperRS (Mar 7, 2012)

sevy said:


> n0ct0 said:
> 
> 
> > Same symptoms as my TTS had. Turned out the Haldex pump had failed.
> ...


Audi will pull your pants down if you have no warranty. I'd use a specialist


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## Rosso TT (Dec 25, 2010)

Try to swap wheels front to back.
I have similar problem and is due to new tyres to the front.


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## n0ct0 (Jan 2, 2013)

Car had only done 21000 miles and was 3 years old. It had just been serviced by Audi too. Luckily it was covered by the warranty.


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## sevy (Sep 14, 2011)

Rosso TT said:


> Try to swap wheels front to back.
> I have similar problem and is due to new tyres to the front.


Thanks for the suggestion, but I've just had my car scanned with VCDS and it does seem to be a fault with the Haldex pump as others predicted (see below).

Cheers...


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## sevy (Sep 14, 2011)

n0ct0 said:


> Car had only done 21000 miles and was 3 years old. It had just been serviced by Audi too. Luckily it was covered by the warranty.


Thanks for the update. Mine was just serviced by Audi too...just before Christmas...but now unfortunately mine is 2 weeks out of warranty 

Which might mean I end up going to an independent rather than Audi...

Cheers...


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## sevy (Sep 14, 2011)

An update on this problem - had my car scanned with VCDS by local forum member drrawle (thanks Dave!) and besides a couple of unrelated error codes it picked up the following:

Address 22: AWD Labels: Redir Fail!
Part No SW: 2K0 907 554 HW: 2K0 907 554 
Component: Haldex 4Motion 5003 
Coding: 0000005
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: EBDE375FCA28DE46D11-80BE

1 Fault Found:
00448 - Haldex Clutch Pump (V181) 
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11000000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 57
Reset counter: 48
Mileage: 3618101 km
Time Indication: 4

Freeze Frame:
Inj. Quantity: -1.51 mg/str
Raw, Form. N/A: 000 000 000
Raw, Form. N/A: 000 000 000
Raw, Form. N/A: 000 000 000
Raw, Form. N/A: 000 000 000
Raw, Form. N/A: 000 000 000
Raw, Form. N/A: 000 000 000
Raw, Form. N/A: 000 000 000

It seems as though those of you that suggested the haldex pump were spot on. As it turns out, Dave that scanned it for me had exactly the same problem on his TDI last year and predicted what the error code would be before he scanned it!

So, now need to give an independent specialist a call as my car is 2 weeks outside of warranty... :x

Will also speak to Camberley Audi though to see what they say - I have a pretty good relationship with the Service Dept there and they've done me some favours in the past, so you never know...

Thanks again for your suggestions/advice and to Dave for scanning my car... 

Cheers...


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

If the car is only two weeks out of warranty then definitely speak to your dealer on the subject of a goodwill payment from Audi.
There are other threads on here where people have got a good result in similar circumstances, eg Audi paying for all the parts. 
Given the only two weeks bit I'd expect more and press for Audi to pay the labour too.


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## sevy (Sep 14, 2011)

brittan said:


> If the car is only two weeks out of warranty then definitely speak to your dealer on the subject of a goodwill payment from Audi.
> There are other threads on here where people have got a good result in similar circumstances, eg Audi paying for all the parts.
> Given the only two weeks bit I'd expect more and press for Audi to pay the labour too.


Thanks for that Brittan - I'll definitely bear that in mind. Should also help that when they serviced my car just before Christmas the Service Advisor commented that my car had 'a bulletproof service history', which will hopefully count in my favour.

I'll update this thread with the outcome either way...

Cheers...


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## SuperRS (Mar 7, 2012)

Argue it and hopefully Audi UK will offer to pay 50% of the cost


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## Chris**** (Aug 9, 2011)

This been sorted?

What age or mileage did the haldex fluid get changed? And what colour was it when they checked?


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## 4carl (Dec 11, 2012)

sevy said:


> An update on this problem - had my car scanned with VCDS by local forum member drrawle (thanks Dave!) and besides a couple of unrelated error codes it picked up the following:
> 
> Address 22: AWD Labels: Redir Fail!
> Part No SW: 2K0 907 554 HW: 2K0 907 554
> ...


There is a haldex software update that is not in your car(see below). Get the dealer to do the upgrade and check the plug on the pump. Audi should repair under warranty .Two weeks out is a joke. Good luck. carl

Address 22: AWD Labels: Redir Fail!
Part No SW: 2K0 907 554 D HW: 2K0 907 554 D
Component: Haldex 4Motion 5010 
Coding: 0000005
Shop #: WSC 46292 000 1048576
VCID: 2F6DCC0FBE81D9663D9-807A

No fault code found.


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## sevy (Sep 14, 2011)

Chris**** said:


> This been sorted?
> 
> What age or mileage did the haldex fluid get changed? And what colour was it when they checked?


No not sorted yet - spoken to my usual service advisor at Camberley Audi and he thinks there is a strong case for getting at least some goodwill from Audi based on the warranty just running out & stong service history. I need a loan car though so the earliest they could get me in is 31st Jan...unless they get a cancellation in the meantime. So I'm just having to plant the loud pedal less at the moment!

The Haldex oil was last changed in Dec 2012 at 40k miles, just before I purchased the car. There's no mention of the colour when it was checked though...

Even more interestingly, looking back through the service history from before I bought the car, it's already had a replacement Haldex pump, in April 2011. Not good that the replacement has lasted less than 3 years! Another thing I've mentioned to Audi in terms of the argument for getting some goodwill towards fixing this...hopefully...


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## sevy (Sep 14, 2011)

4carl said:


> There is a haldex software update that is not in your car(see below). Get the dealer to do the upgrade and check the plug on the pump. Audi should repair under warranty .Two weeks out is a joke. Good luck. carl
> 
> Address 22: AWD Labels: Redir Fail!
> Part No SW: 2K0 907 554 D HW: 2K0 907 554 D
> ...


Thanks for this Carl. This is interesting...now you've mentioned that I recall a thread last year talking about this update, which I thought people were saying was mandatory. However, Audi serviced my car in December & the paperwork clearly states that no outstanding updates/recalls were found. Something else for me to query with Audi when I take my car in!

I'll update this thread once the car has been looked at...


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

sevy said:


> No not sorted yet - spoken to my usual service advisor at Camberley Audi and he thinks there is a strong case for getting at least some goodwill from Audi based on the warranty just running out & strong service history.


That's good news and as expected. You should get a good result on the goodwill front.

I asked about the Haldex controller update the last time mine went into the dealer but I got the same reply as you; no updates for my car. Mines a 2009 so I wonder if the update is aimed at later cars or just those with S-Tronic?


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## igotone (Mar 10, 2010)

brittan said:


> I asked about the Haldex controller update the last time mine went into the dealer but I got the same reply as you; no updates for my car. Mines a 2009 so I wonder if the update is aimed at later cars or just those with S-Tronic?


I'm pretty sure the Haldex update does only apply to s-tronic cars Brian. It was brought in as a result of several instances of failed drive shafts or driveshaft couplings when using launch control. I got the Haldex update a few months ago and I'm damned if I can detect any difference tbh.

Dealerships are pretty insistent that you accept the Haldex update or sign to the effect that you don't want it, with obvious warranty implications should there be later problems.


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## Chris**** (Aug 9, 2011)

So a replacement pump already? That must indicate either the fluid or something needs to be changed more. I know these haldex systems don't have a filter unlike the older versions :?


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

igotone said:


> I'm pretty sure the Haldex update does only apply to s-tronic cars Brian. It was brought in as a result of several instances of failed drive shafts or driveshaft couplings when using launch control. I got the Haldex update a few months ago and I'm damned if I can detect any difference tbh.


Ah yes, I remember that now. I suppose Audi reckon that most of us manual drivers have enough sense to be reasonably non-violent at launch! :wink:


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

Chris**** said:


> So a replacement pump already? That must indicate either the fluid or something needs to be changed more. I know these haldex systems don't have a filter unlike the older versions :?


Yes, there's no filter on the Gen 4 unit but his fault code scan said *1 Fault Found: 00448 - Haldex Clutch Pump (V181) 011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent*, which looks like a motor/plug issue.


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## 4carl (Dec 11, 2012)

brittan said:


> igotone said:
> 
> 
> > I'm pretty sure the Haldex update does only apply to s-tronic cars Brian. It was brought in as a result of several instances of failed drive shafts or driveshaft couplings when using launch control. I got the Haldex update a few months ago and I'm damned if I can detect any difference tbh.
> ...


 Mine is a US 6 speed the up date is for all ttrs's. carl


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## sevy (Sep 14, 2011)

An unexpected update on this...my problem seems to have resolved itself which is very annoying bearing in mind it's going to Camberley Audi on Friday!

All through last week the car has not wheelspun at all, even on wet roads. Today I tried planting my foot at every opportunity but the car felt glued to the road, just like it did before the problem first occurred. So now I'm faced with the possibility that the problem won't occur for Audi, so there might not appear anything to fix (apart from the logged error code, which admittedly did say it was an intermittent fault).

Obviously I want the problem permanently fixed, otherwise it's always going to be in the back of my mind that it could (and probably will) happen again at some point, so I don't have 100% confidence in how it's going to behave. Will speak to Audi tomorrow and see if they think it's still worth taking the car in on Friday. In the meantime, does the fact that the problem seems to have resolved itself point to anything other than the haldex pump fault as first thought?

Cheers...


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## sevy (Sep 14, 2011)

Well, my car still refuses to wheelpsin despite my best efforts this week. Have just spoken to Rob at Camberley, and he's confirmed my fears - if the problem won't occur whilst they have my car then there's nothing they can fix. Even though the error code is logged, they can't do anything to fix it...at least not as part of any goodwill arrangement...

So, unless the car miraculously starts misbehaving again on my way home tonight, I won't be taking it to Camberley Audi tomorrow. To be fair to Rob, he's said that as soon as the problem does happen again, I just need to give him a buzz and he'll book it in again as a priority. Unfortunately for me though, Rob is leaving Camberley Audi on 18th Feb so I really need the haldex pump to start malfunctioning again before then, so he can help me get it sorted with as low a cost to me as possible before he goes!

It's all a bit annoying really... :x


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