# Audi Design



## stonehagdesign (Dec 3, 2006)

HI, 
Im studying automitve design in my final year at uni and Im designing a new Audi and I just wondered what people on this forum thought the future of Audi design is, and where they`d like to see it go. Like more clinical, or more emotive?
Whether they`re future should have more cars liek the R8, or stick with saloons?
Any repsonse would be really helpful, 
Thanks


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## GhostyDog (Dec 2, 2006)

If you've got SKY check out the AUDI channel, that'll give you a really good idea about where AUDI are now and maybe where they believe they are going.

Wouldn't it be best to design a car that aligns itself to the ideals and aspirations of the company especially if you want to get noticed in automotive design?

The only caveat? Doing this and remaining original.


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## stonehagdesign (Dec 3, 2006)

Ive done a great deal of research into what Audi consider themselves to be, their design direction etc, but I thought it would be interesting to get an idea from the public and Audi users as well.
It would also be really interesting to find out the statistics of which age group and sex buy Audi TT's, this would help to create a persona to aid my design.


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## GhostyDog (Dec 2, 2006)

Have you thought about contacting AUDI UK for help with demographics info if they'll give it?


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## steveh (Jan 14, 2004)

stonehagdesign said:


> Ive done a great deal of research into what Audi consider themselves to be, their design direction etc, but I thought it would be interesting to get an idea from the public and Audi users as well.
> It would also be really interesting to find out the statistics of which age group and sex buy Audi TT's, this would help to create a persona to aid my design.


Someone on here tends to run a poll on the age of TT owners about once every year and, from memory, it seems that there is a surprising spread of ages with a lot of owners in their twenties, probably most in their thirties and then a fair number over 40. Mostly male as well.

However, that is just for people on this forum. Most of the TTs I see when driving round the southern section of the M25 most mornings are driven by women so I'm not sure how representative this forum actually is. :?


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

stonehagdesign said:


> HI,
> Im studying automitve design in my final year at uni and Im designing a new Audi and I just wondered what people on this forum thought the future of Audi design is, and where they`d like to see it go. Like more clinical, or more emotive?
> Whether they`re future should have more cars liek the R8, or stick with saloons?
> Any repsonse would be really helpful,
> Thanks


Fair enough question, I think.

What follows is only my perception, not intended as anything more than opinion. An opinion which has been formed and shaped by Audi marketing too.

If there is such a tangible concept as "Audi design", then what is it, how do we recognise it, what value does it generate for Audi?

Why do people choose to "buy into" Audi as a brand rather than any other manufacturer of 4-wheeled personal transportation devices ... and what value do we think that we get out of the Audi brand (now and in the future) to justify spending the extra Â£Â£s over a Ford, VW, Skoda et al.

For me, it's the understatement. Not in your face. Quiet efficiency. I get into my Audi (and have done for the last 12ish years) knowing that it will get me where I'm going, and will get me there in a state where I'm able to function properly. It is the old vorsprung stuff ... doing what it says on the tin ... less emotional than a bmw/alfa ... under-stated ... appreciates with age ... technical innovation ... reliability ... not-as-common-as-bmws ...

The design is refined, conservative even, careful, studied, thoughtful, not extravagant, nothing without purpose.

What should the future be?

Evolutionary. The grill alone was a big step. Look at how mk1 owners protest that the mk2 is "different". I couldn't imagine Audi adopting banglesque design. I would hope that innovation will be under the skin in technology (like quattro and DSG). Thoughtful touches rather than flamboyant gestures.


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## stonehagdesign (Dec 3, 2006)

Thanks for all the replies.

TTonyTT - if Audi were to become more of an emotional brand would they hold less appeal to you? Or would the other factors outweigh this? I ask this because I have a sense that Audi designers are heading more in that direction.

What do people think about the R8? Not _just _the design but the idea of a Â£70k Audi? Do you think there should be more models like the R8?


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

stonehagdesign said:


> Thanks for all the replies.
> 
> TTonyTT - if Audi were to become more of an emotional brand would they hold less appeal to you? Or would the other factors outweigh this? I ask this because I have a sense that Audi designers are heading more in that direction.
> 
> What do people think about the R8? Not _just _the design but the idea of a Â£70k Audi? Do you think there should be more models like the R8?


Q1 - depends what you mean by "emotional" I suppose. Trying to make Audi a pure emotional purchase would undermine many of the brand values that it's spent the last 20+ years establishing. People buy Alfas on the basis of emotion. They know that they'll get crap customer service, poor reliabilty, and "characterful" design. Those are anti-Audi values, so I wouldn't expect Audi to move into "emotional" territory by undermining the existing brand values. But I guess I already have an "emotional" attachment to the Audi brand. It's not rational that I spend Â£30k on a car, when a Â£10k car would achieve most of the same transportation objectives. Some people's emotions will by tugged by the colour red. Others by the smell of chocolate. Perhaps - if you're right and I've interpreted your comment correctly - Audi is aiming at the emotion of quiet efficiency - almost anti-emotional?

Q2 - I see no reason at all why Audi can't sell a Â£70k sports car. I'd certainly buy one. They may have difficulty selling to confirmed 911 drivers (who have formed an emotional attachment to Porsche), but the reports to date are that they've sold all the R8s that they intended to into the UK market. Which is always good for demand ... making something unattainable will always increase demand for it. The A8 (top end) is already a Â£70k car. The S6 is a Â£65k car. I see no problem with the R8 as a Â£70k Audi - but I would expect a LOT of the Audi brand values in the car ... total efficiency, amazingly thoughtful and practical design touches, utter reliability, absence of go-faster bodykits, etc.

Q3 - should there be more R8s? Unlikely. That's what Audi have Lambourghini for. The brand needed a flagship (the A8 never really got market recognition in a way that the R8 could achieve). The R8 establishes a direct link (in more than name) between Audi's LeMans exercise and the brand-on-the-road. I imagine that it will be good for TT sales - step1 for many ultimate R8 owners.


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## Guest (Dec 4, 2006)

good read TTonyTT [smiley=thumbsup.gif] 8)


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## stonehagdesign (Dec 3, 2006)

By becoming "more emotional" I simply mean becoming less "clinical" in terms of the design, still remaning subtle but becoming less "stiff". Claus Potthoff commented on how incredibly simple the original TT was - how it could have been designed by a child, and with the new TT they`ve tried to become much more suffisticated eg positve/negative surfaces.

"Audi design is one thing above all: the distinctly emotional and dynamic interpretation of the car." - from Audi itself.

If Audi did begin to lean towards less subtle design, and more extreme styling, especially in teh Â£70k market, do you think many Audi buyers would be put off?

What made you buy an Audi in the first place?


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

stonehagdesign said:


> By becoming "more emotional" I simply mean becoming less "clinical" in terms of the design, still remaning subtle but becoming less "stiff". Claus Potthoff commented on how incredibly simple the original TT was - how it could have been designed by a child, and with the new TT they`ve tried to become much more suffisticated eg positve/negative surfaces.
> 
> "Audi design is one thing above all: the distinctly emotional and dynamic interpretation of the car." - from Audi itself.
> 
> ...


1. Quattro rally heritage: I could never afford an ur quattro first time round.

2. An alternative to BMW and a good drive. (not the best though - but good enough, and the other Audi qualities made up for that.

3. Neat and svelte styling overall, good proportions, nice flanks and sides plus a/b/c pillar relationsships, closest shut lines, nice materials and industry best interior designs. Audis had a cool and understated image for me.

4. Nice front and grill - this no longer applies with new Audi nose

5. Neat rear light clusters - again this no longer applies

An element of fussiness has now crept into Audi's designs. Overly fussy lights (witness front edge 'droop' in latest A4s front lamps ). Rather too many bright silver strips and pieces (witness A6 rear). Two piece rear lights. Weird front bonnet lines.

And That Grill. :x The previous emphasis on horizontal lines rather than big mouth worked better across the whole range.

As for the R8 - ill-proportioned, every styling trick thrown at it, bling bling. It's a very silly exercise at a serious price.

I look forward to the next next gen of lower-key and more subtle Audis. It's where the brand sits in my mind. It's lost at the moment imho.

It's the S3 that is best looking car in range for me.

It's funny - Audi sat back and watched BMW enter a poor styling period in their car designs, where 'bold' and 'different' are key and to hell with Good Looks. This instantly divided opinion. Then they went and did exactly the same, although to be fair their range has more cohesion (R8 excepted) than does the Bangle-era BMWs.

I do not think Audi's have become more emotional. Just more overt. Maybe that is just a sign of the times. "Look At Me"

It will pass. And maybe I will get another Audi.

:wink:


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## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

stonehagdesign said:


> What made you buy an Audi in the first place?


I didn't buy an Audi .... I bought the original TT - mainly for its design.


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

I've got to agree with garyc. AUDI brand values have, for me, always been anti-fashion. Solid, dependable, but with just a little something that suggests class to those in the know. Something that could only be appreciated by other owners of AUDIs. My own interpretation of the current VW group philosophy is that this is the segment that will be fulflled by the Volkswagen range, and that AUDI should represent a more sporting bias. Currently they don't have the chassis skills or layouts to really challenge here.

Unfortunately for me, I am neither Asian, nor North American so the Bling Bling elements of the A6, both inside and out meant I bought an ugly, but less bling, 5 Series. Don't get me wrong, the A6 isn't a bad car, but doesn't feel like an AUDI.

Volkswagen doesn't have the name, and at present, the model range to compete here.

When the marketing resolves itsself, I'm sure that there will be a logical range, in the meantime I, and alot of other people, will mourn the passing of a great era for AUDI (It came to an end with the last A4) and move on. I don't think that everyone will go for BMs and Mercs though. I can see a swing towards the Japanese prestige models! AUDI and VW will have to work hard to retain sales!


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## stonehagdesign (Dec 3, 2006)

Im not sure about the anti-fashion idea, for me Audi have been, for a few years, very much at the tip of stylish and contemporary design, making them quite fashionable indeed. I see Audi as a lifestyle car rather than just a mode of transport between a+b.

If the R8 where more subtle and perhaps more reminiscent of Audi's heritage do you think i would be more acceptable to more Audi enthusiasts?


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

stonehagdesign said:


> Im not sure about the anti-fashion idea, for me Audi have been, for a few years, very much at the tip of stylish and contemporary design, making them quite fashionable indeed. I see Audi as a lifestyle car rather than just a mode of transport between a+b.
> 
> *If the R8 where more subtle and perhaps more reminiscent of Audi's heritage do you think i would be more acceptable to more Audi enthusiasts?*


Yes.

Thing is Audi doesn't actually have a heritage in the super car space. It needs to create one. Having a Lambo platform is a start, but the R8 has it's work cut out and will always be viewed by many as a flagship vanity project which they made a reality just because they could.

Rather than try to take on Porsche and Ferrari etc, they would do far better to watch Nissan and Lexus, who's progress has been solid, and whom are now far more focussed than Audi seem to be.










Ur quattro 2 anyone? An ultra GT as will be the Nissan Gtr?


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

stonehagdesign said:


> If the R8 where more subtle and perhaps more reminiscent of Audi's heritage do you think i would be more acceptable to more Audi enthusiasts?


Possibly not. The market for totally impractical cars is hardly AUDI's traditional hunting ground. The TT was a one-off, it was affordable, stylish, practical and desirable. In many ways it was the embodiment of AUDI's, then current, philosophy.

AUDI is moving towards a more dynamic image and requires some "halo" products to underscore this. The R8 provides this in a way that the larger S models have spectacularly failed to do.

For me, for the R8 to genuinely embody AUDI's core philosophy and the reason why I'd buy one it would need to achieve the following:

Be practical, be at least a 2+2 with sufficient ground clearance and luggage space to be useable on a daily basis. If you can't park it in a multi-storey without bashing the doors, scraping the rims on the kerbs and breaking your back to take a ticket then you may as well buy a nice used Ferrari.

Be reliable, interior quality and shutline management like AUDI know how to do.

Affordable. If it costs the same as a 911, it needs to retain its value as well and cost no more to run!

Understated style, if some new technology offers a real benefit, the use it, if not then leave it alone, not too much of the gimmicky LEDs or over-complicated computer integration. KISS Keep it simple stupid.

I agree that the market would welcome a Nissan R35 competitor more readily than a 911 wannabe. At least I would.

I can't help thinking that an RS4 Coupe could provide a far more convincing Halo than the R8 if a little of the "TT magic" could be sprinkled on it.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

ag said:


> stonehagdesign said:
> 
> 
> > I agree that the market would welcome a Nissan R35 competitor more readily than a 911 wannabe. At least I would.
> ...


How about an RS4 Coupe CSL-type lightweight? Lose 200kg, lower the centre of gravity, shove the V8 behind front axle, 7 speed DSG from Veyron, a few extra horsepower from V8, and Cup tyres with magnetic dampers and carbon brakes. Then Audi could really take it to the M-cars...


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

garyc said:


> How about an RS4 Coupe CSL-type lightweight? Lose 200kg, lower the centre of gravity, shove the V8 behind front axle, 7 speed DSG from Veyron, a few extra horsepower from V8, and Cup tyres with magnetic dampers and carbon brakes. Then Audi could really take it to the M-cars...


SOLD, to the man in the corner with the big smile!

The word I was looking for rather than bling was "fussy". The details on AUDIs never used to stand out, but worked together in a well judged homogenious (sp?) way. The new grill and the fillets of aluminium on the upper side of wood trims in the A6 are just not sufficiently understated to be AUDI. It is all trying _too_ hard!


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

They would only have to raid the parts bins to put that together. And I do applaud fact that new Audis are getting a little lighter, have better engines and are raising their game in the driving dynamics dept.

OT

Well I am not going to suggest that the Forum is going down hill in any way , but does it say anything about this community when a Tedious '3 Word Story' thread, or a 'Last Post Wins' thread attracts far more interest and response than does an Audi design discussion thread?

:roll:

ps the Forum is going downhill... :wink:


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

garyc said:


> ps the Forum is going downhill... :wink:


Again :roll:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

No. Really really this time. :wink:


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

In answer to the last question, personally, the 3 word story and the last post wins is just a bit of fun. I've taken the time to read the posts on this thread and, whilst most of the technical detail is lost on me, I found it an interesting read. For the most part, I just want my car to get me from a to b and if I'm stuck in traffic, then I want to look good whilst motionless. You can read too much into how and where the future development of the car in general, and Audi in particular is going.
I agree with "keep it simple, stupid", the simplest things always work the best but things change and an element of keeping up with the Jones's is creeping in with all manufacturers trying to outdo one another. In reality, it's all about trying to separate us from our cash.


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

The time when Audi was the thinking mans car ended with the original TT. At that point it became a fashion brand. Of course this means it may one day go out of fashion. The only "niche premium" manufacturer now is Saab imo. And I have never "got" Saabs.

I am a fan of the new grill and the A6. Much better looking than the predecessors. I think the brand has a lot of scope to change design.

RS4 saloon is a fantastic looking car, and the pick of the range for me. Nobody does muscular and understated better than Audi with their RS models.


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

Slightly OT, what's the origin of the 4 rings?? I have an idea, just need confimation.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

LakesTTer said:


> Slightly OT, what's the origin of the 4 rings?? I have an idea, just need confimation.


It's the union of four companies. Hence 'Auto Union'

http://www.audiworld.com/news/00/audihistory/content.shtml


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

I went there and had a look as soon as I'd posted. I was wrong but I prefer the story I'd heard about the rings symbolising the road wheels of a tank, to commemorate Germany's military might and the subsidiary companies involvement in tank production.


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

badly dubbed shows like The Flashing Blade and The Water Margin.

The Pantom Flan Flinger.

Texans.

Free milk at school.

Cycling Proficiency Tests.

Please feel free to join in.


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

Sorry, that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ shouldn't be here. Ignore or remove if any mods are handy.


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