# Millbrook Porsche's test track experience



## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Today I went up there to test the Cayman S properly. It was amazing fun. Especially as the Cayman S was fitted with PCCB and had to do emergency braking at 135mph!!   Very effective breaking that is equivalent to 1.8G we were told. But can be very painful to a passenger.

The track is also so mad...17% gradient at some slopes!

I am very pleased with my choice and it comes next month.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Whilst looking at the new GT3 at lunchtime, I also had a quick look at the Boxsters & Gayman's currently for sale on the Porsche website, and it amazed me how many are specced without PASM! Anybody not speccing PASM is clearly not interested in the cars performance IMO. :?

I presume you have opted for PASM Vlastan?


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

I found something about PASM today that the salesman didn't tell me before. The guy on the track explained to me a lot more which I didn't know before.

Based on this I didn't specify the PASM before and it is too late to do it now. But I did get the Sports Chrono instead which appears to be a fantastic toy.

I also got a lot more extras (7k in total) and I run out of budget.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

vlastan said:


> I found something about PASM today that the salesman didn't tell me before. The guy on the track explained to me a lot more which I didn't know before.
> 
> Based on this I didn't specify the PASM before and it is too late to do it now. But I did get the Sports Chrono instead which appears to be a fantastic toy.
> 
> I also got a lot more extras (7k in total) and I run out of budget.


To be honest I would go and bollock your salesman! PASM is an essential IMO. When I was looking to replace the S2000 I drove a 987 Boxster with and without PASM, and the difference is epic! The PASM equipped car made it feel so planted and controlled. It totally transformed it.

The salesman explained every element of PASM to the point of boredom, but he did his job properly because I specced it!

I urge you (if you have the remotest chance) to try and get PASM.

Oh BTW, what options have you specced for Â£7k? I just built a Cayman on the configurator and 7k hardly got me 2 thirds of what I deemed essential.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

vlastan said:


> Today I went up there to test the Cayman S properly. It was amazing fun. Especially as the Cayman S was fitted with PCCB and had to do emergency breaking at 135mph!!   Very effective breaking that is equivalent to 1.8G we were told. But can be very painful to a passenger.
> 
> The track is also so mad...17% gradient at some slopes!
> 
> I am very pleased with my choice and it comes next month.


V, braking is far more beneficial to the car than breaking :wink:


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

I got:

Cobalt Blue
Bi-Xenon
Park Assist
Climate
Heated seats
PCM
Telephone
BOSE
CDC
3-spoke m/function steering wheel
Sport Chrono Package Plus

You know that the list is endless and some prioritisation is needed when you specify the car. You can easily get up to 60k on extras, so carefull selection of extras is needed.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> vlastan said:
> 
> 
> > Today I went up there to test the Cayman S properly. It was amazing fun. Especially as the Cayman S was fitted with PCCB and had to do emergency breaking at 135mph!!   Very effective breaking that is equivalent to 1.8G we were told. But can be very painful to a passenger.
> ...


I thought I was going to break the brake as I was stepping on the pedal so hard. :wink: (now corrected...but you sound like JampoTT now) :lol:


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

vlastan said:


> emergency braking at 135mph!!


And then taking your hands off the streeing wheel!

Good fun isn't it?

I didn't go for PASM either.

Epic difference? My arse!


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## raysman (May 12, 2006)

vlastan ,are you on standard 18 inch wheels ?if you are then pasm is not really a must have. i have 19's and the ride can be a little harsh(no pasm) sometimes,nice spec by the way . if i could change anything i think i would have gone for the sports seats ,mine are full electric but you tend to move around on them too much when pressing on .glad to see you spec'ed the sport chrono option .


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

Widget said:


> vlastan said:
> 
> 
> > emergency braking at 135mph!!
> ...


Okay, I know this is slightly different, but PASM on the 997 is required IMO. I don't feel as attached to the road as much with PASM off. When it's on there is a large enough difference to notice considerably and confidence is boosted accordingly. Having said this though, when I test drove the Cayman S it was quite a hard ride, but unfortunately I can't recall if it had PASM or not, I don't think it did. What I do remember was you felt everything through the steering and it was very emotion inducing . 5,500 rpm is a must on every trip out. Where ever you need to go, go the long way round as my 997 takes about 5 miles to warm up.

[edit]

I still have not booked my PDE day at Millbrook. Must remember that I don't know how to drive it yet, and get some G inspiring tuition.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> vlastan said:
> 
> 
> > I found something about PASM today that the salesman didn't tell me before. The guy on the track explained to me a lot more which I didn't know before.
> ...


Kev, without appearing pedantic :wink: you in that OTHER thread slated/knocked the use of German Electronic Wizardry used to increase safety. If i'm not mistaken, is PASM not Porsche Active Stability Management?? (may not be called that) in which case you're raving about a feature you slated a few days ago.

Perhaps this PASM is the dogs & is different to Audi's ESP or BMW's EDC but i'd be interested to know why the Porsche version is a must have & the Audi/BMW version is a nanny product to protect under experienced drivers of fast cars. (Just curious)


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> is PASM not Porsche Active Stability Management??


Close.

Porsche Active Suspension Management.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Widget said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > is PASM not Porsche Active Stability Management??
> ...


So is it seen as a handling aid in the same way that BMW's DSC (Dynamic Stability Control) works with the Traction Control, ABS & the EDC (Electronic Damping Control)? I don't know if EDC is only standard on M-Cars but that sounds to me a little like PASM.

I know EDC can be altered using 3 setting which arre Comfort (that ones funny), Normal & Sport & this alters not only the ride hard but also the speed, firmness & re-bound on the dampers.


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

PASM enabled cars sit 10mm lower as standard.

Then you can turn the PASM on or off which stiffens up the suspension to give (i suppose) better road hugging.

However, with a car as balanced as the Cayman I don't think it is necessary. Maybe with the back heavy 997's it would be seen as advantageous. Recently in a 997 at high speed I didn't have the PASM enabled and felt like the front was rather light and so, I guess, PASM would go some way to reducing this feeling.

I recall someone saying that the Cayman on 18s without PASM is a better handling car than one on 19s with PASM.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Widget said:


> PASM enabled cars sit 10mm lower as standard.
> 
> Then you can turn the PASM on or off which stiffens up the suspension to give (i suppose) better road hugging.
> 
> ...


Understood, so it is basically the same as EDC on the M5? & a similar system on the RS6 although on the RS6 IIRC, the system is always active & can't be set.

Although it may be percieved as a safety enhancing device, i like the functionality in my car, as per JC's findings on Top Gear, the ability to transform a car at the touch of a button is surely a good thin & as akin to sports car like as you can get (albeit a 5 series will never be as sports car like as a Porsche).


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> Widget said:
> 
> 
> > PASM enabled cars sit 10mm lower as standard.
> ...


My understanding is that PASM is the best of the electronic nanny systems currently available, allowing more driver control around the limit, with more variable parameters, more intelliegnce to anticipate when it needs to intervene and greater slip angles before finally reining back in a less instrusive fashion than others. It may be marketing blurb and the few PASM cars I have briefly driven have felt normal in all respects.

Possibly the safety net is a comfort factor for normal road use but will show it's value over time or on that one time when maybe the driver takes a liberty too much...?

Most people who have it, rate it.


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

PASM - Enables faster turn-in, better road-holding, traction and smoother ride...

PASM is an electronic control system which uses continuous adjustment of damping force to maintain optimum ride quality and comfort. PASM has two setup modes, Normal and Sport, which share only a minimal degree of overlap. While Normal mode provides a blend of performance and comfort, the Sport setup mode has a much firmer range of settings. The system responds to changing road conditions and/or driving style by applying a variable damping force as defined for the selected setup mode.

To do that PASM uses a series of sensors which monitor all the movements of the car's body. The PASM control unit then evaluates this data and modifies the damping force on each of the wheels in accordance with the selected mode. The results are a reduction in pitch and roll as well as consistant road-holding from all four wheels.

If sport mode is selected, the suspension is set to a harder damping rating. If the quality of the road surface falls below a certain thresold, the system immediately changes to a softer rating within the sport setup range. This adjustment enhances occupant comfort as well as traction and grip. When the road surface improves, PASM automatically reverts to the original harder rating.

If normal mode is selected and the car is driven assertively PASM automatically switches to a harder rating within the normal setup range. As the dampers become stiffer, the car becomes more stable and responds with more immediacy to driver inputs.

In either case, the result is the same: a car which adapts the way it handles and rides to the way you personally like to drive.

So the brochure says... lol 

[edit]

Of course with the optional Chrono Pack, PASM integrates with this also in that it switches to sport mode and remaps the ECU to a sharper more responsive engine.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

I think it does so much more things than I thought. It has a normal and a sport mode as well as is 10mm lower than the standard suspension.

In sport mode gets very hard but if it detects that the road surface is very bad it will go to a softer setting alone. It will also adjust each spings individually. So if you brake hard, it will try to keep the nose of the car flat. As you go around the bends it will try to keep the chassis level. It works all the time, and I didn't know this before.

It also works even better with the Spors Chrono that allows you to adjust sensitivity of it.

But again, how much money can you spend in a car on extras? There is a limit for everything and you can't have the whole list. There were some more options that I liked but didn't want to spend more money on it.

I also went for the standard 18" wheels. They are brand new design and they are unique, unlike the 19" that are used in the 911 range already. Also the ride is meant to be better and as this is going to be my day to day car, comfort is important as well.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

I posted the above without seeing the last post.


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

vlastan said:


> I also went for the standard 18" wheels. They are brand new design and they are unique, unlike the 19" that are used in the 911 range already. Also the ride is meant to be better and as this is going to be my day to day car, comfort is important as well.


Exactly my reasoning. The other wheels can go on any other car. These are 'exclusive' to the Cayman S. Besides, they were my favourites.

And yeah, comfort is a factor. Any of you boys driven on North Norfolk roads?!!!!


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

ResB said:


> PASM - Enables faster turn-in, better road-holding, traction and smoother ride...
> 
> PASM is an electronic control system which uses continuous adjustment of damping force to maintain optimum ride quality and comfort. PASM has two setup modes, Normal and Sport, which share only a minimal degree of overlap. While Normal mode provides a blend of performance and comfort, the Sport setup mode has a much firmer range of settings. The system responds to changing road conditions and/or driving style by applying a variable damping force as defined for the selected setup mode.
> 
> ...


So to satisfy myself & fully understand PASM, it IS the same basic principal as that in other performance cars such as the M5's EDC & the RS6's Electronic damping?? It may be better on the Porsche (no arguement from me on that front) but the principle & execution functionality is virtually the same?? I know in the M5, EDC has 3 settings as mentioned before, that being Comfort, Normal & Sport & as against more regular ESP systems in say other Audi's. In PASM & EDC the handling is altered in more dramatic & spirited driving conditions & nearer the limit, rather than power being reduced which is a normal trait of most ESP systems.

Just read your last point again & i'm not sure if the other systems i've encountered have infinate settings within a setting, i think although don't know for sure that the 3 settings are defined as such & if the road surface alters & you find Sport is too low & too firm, then you have to press the EDC button to move to a softer setting. I may ask on M5 Board if anyone has a more definative explanation of EDC just to satisfy my curiosity.

Back to the original point, i'd say this should be a no brainer feature on any current Porsche model & TBH i'm a little surprised it's not standard but Porsche are well known for their costly & lengthy options list.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> Back to the original point, i'd say this should be a no brainer feature on any current Porsche model.


Ahhhh, glad you worked out what it isin the end! 

It really is brilliant and when i drove the two cars back to back, it REALLY transforms the 987 Boxsters saggy arse to something with excellent feedback and control.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Back to the original point, i'd say this should be a no brainer feature on any current Porsche model.
> ...


 :lol:

I can assume it would transform the car. My limited experience of similar systems would lead me to think it's a must have.


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> It really is brilliant and when i drove the two cars back to back, it REALLY transforms the 987 Boxsters saggy arse to something with excellent feedback and control.


Love this "saggy arse thing" - you have to be the only person to describe it as such!...and I thought it was a 986 you test drove.

With the trend for increasing wheel sizes, then PASM seems to be the panacea for controlling the increased skittishness induced by tyres with less side wall depth.
Having played in several Boxsters with 18 and 19" wheels fitted with PASM, the electronic wizardry does have small benefits when used on cars with 19"...but cars fitted with 18" wheels handled better regardless of PASM, IMO, than those with 19" & PASM.

No idea on 997's - Mrs JiaB won't allow me a test drive [sigh :wink: ]

Dave


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Jac-in-a-Box said:


> Love this "saggy arse thing" - you have to be the only person to describe it as such!...and I thought it was a 986 you test drove.


See my last paragraph from my thread in July 2005 when I decided against the Boxster and went for the TVR instead.

http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... 15&start=0

Go drive a S2000, then you will see what I mean by a standard Boxster being 'soggy' (it's a very common concensus). The PASM makes it perfect, but it comes at a cost! :?


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> Jac-in-a-Box said:
> 
> 
> > Love this "saggy arse thing" - you have to be the only person to describe it as such!...and I thought it was a 986 you test drove.
> ...


You mean financial cost? If yes the cost is just over Â£1k. Not cheap at all.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

I also discovered that the Sat Nav has traffic control information for free similar to what Audi offers now. This is so cool to have.

Did you guys specify the sat nav in your Cayman S?


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Widget said:


> vlastan said:
> 
> 
> > I also went for the standard 18" wheels. They are brand new design and they are unique, unlike the 19" that are used in the 911 range already. Also the ride is meant to be better and as this is going to be my day to day car, comfort is important as well.
> ...


Absolutely. Why pay more to have something common and uncomfortable? I guess the standard 5 spokes are also so easy to clean as well?


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## raysman (May 12, 2006)

if its comfort you want vlastan then get pasm ,but its not the best set up for performance ,walter rohrl's best ring time was in a cayman s with 19's and pasm off ,he recorded a 8min 10sec run. he also said that he preffers the car on 18's ,so you made a good choice by sticking with them,

oh and i forgot to add he had sc on.


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## paulb (May 6, 2002)

Jac-in-a-Box said:


> Love this "saggy arse thing" - you have to be the only person to describe it as such!


Remember that kmpowell is also the person who slagged off the VX220 Turbo more than a year before buying one...


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## paulb (May 6, 2002)

vlastan said:


> I also discovered that the Sat Nav has traffic control information for free similar to what Audi offers now. This is so cool to have.
> 
> Did you guys specify the sat nav in your Cayman S?


Even by boring Mondeo has that, Nick! :roll:


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

too many damned electronics on cars these days, safety this, safety that, stick it on MPVs and leave sports cars as they should be says I.

Wish that ESP button was 100% off myself, bloody thing.


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

PASM does not lower the suspension by 10mm. At least it doesn't in the 997. It firms up the suspension by adjusting the oil in the dampers, but does not change the ride height. When I bought my 997 I was told that if comfort is important, but you want a sporty setup available you should choose PASM.

I often press the Sport button (which comes with Sport Chrono) and then switch the PASM back to the comfort setting as otherwise the ride is VERY hard. However, this hard ride setting does make the car feel totally different and is cool - just don't expect your passenger to like it. :roll:

On the 997 you can order a 20mm chasis option which lowers the car by 20mm and deletes PASM. Perhaps people are getting confused between the two?


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## V6 TT (Sep 24, 2002)

. . . PASM on all Porsche models lowers the ride height by 10mm permanently from the factory - no on the fly adjustment of ride height. The 997 C2S comes as standard with PASM (or omitted in favour of sport suspension and LSD -20mm F.O.C.) and therefore no difference in height. A PASM equipped 997 C2S sits lower by 10mm than a 997 C2 due to the PASM fitted as standard equipment on that particular model.

Dean


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