# Tuning 1.8T 180 hp to 250-320 hp



## leholtet

Hello guys. Im starting to finish my tt interior and exterior, and its time to start to think about the engine. Its an 1.8T 180Q, with 100 000 km on the meeter.

Im aming for 250 ps. Can i do that with the k03s? is it the turbo that is the restrictor? or can i change the petrol injectors and reach 250? ofc with induction kit, turbo back exhaust and remap aswell


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## st3v3

firstly, I'm gonna say to good luck in what you want and I hope you achieve your goal.

Secondly,you will now get loads of people telling you to sell the
car and buy a 225 and remap it,but that's no fun is it.

good luck.


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## GanXteR

I'd be interested in this but think we are the minority on here.

Main issues being fmic and 3 inch down pipe options. Best place to look for options is on the seat Ibiza forums but they are 2wd remember...

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2


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## leholtet

Thanks, Good to hear im not alone 

It isnt just to sell the car, and buy a 225, not here in norway  Its really hard to find a TT Mk1 with low km, and good condition. My 180TQ is perfect, and thats why i bought it! 

Ok, so with an fmic, 3"dp, full turboback, remap and induction, you mean we can achieve 250?


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## Adam-tt

i would look at fitting a ko4 turbo buddy, you will have more chance of getting 250bhp then


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## GanXteR

There's a YouTube video of a black 180 and he shows you what he uses to get around the 250 mark

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2


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## leholtet

Ok, ill try to find the vid  As for K04-020, it might be an alternative, but im trying to avoid it


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## kazinak

ganxter said:


> I'd be interested in this but think we are the minority on here.
> 
> Main issues being fmic and 3 inch down pipe options. Best place to look for options is on the seat Ibiza forums but they are 2wd remember...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2


just to clear thigs up

180 dowpipe are the same on all models ,only the cat is diferent :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:


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## Adam-tt

leholtet said:


> Ok, ill try to find the vid  As for K04-020, it might be an alternative, but im trying to avoid it


Oi get back on facebook , i was talking to you :lol:


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## Alec's TT




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## GanXteR

kazinak said:


> ganxter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be interested in this but think we are the minority on here.
> 
> Main issues being fmic and 3 inch down pipe options. Best place to look for options is on the seat Ibiza forums but they are 2wd remember...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
> 
> 
> 
> just to clear thigs up
> 
> 180 dowpipe are the same on all models ,only the cat is diferent :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:
Click to expand...

The turbos different and the down pipe joins it so it can't be the same

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2


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## leholtet

Well, with K04-001 (wich isnt the one that is fitted in the 225 wich is k04-020) what downpipe would fit?


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## kazinak

ganxter said:


> kazinak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ganxter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be interested in this but think we are the minority on here.
> 
> Main issues being fmic and 3 inch down pipe options. Best place to look for options is on the seat Ibiza forums but they are 2wd remember...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
> 
> 
> 
> just to clear thigs up
> 
> 180 dowpipe are the same on all models ,only the cat is diferent :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The turbos different and the down pipe joins it so it can't be the same
> 
> Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

i have ETKA in front of me and it says you are wrong,

180 has ko3s turbo , it doesn't mater fwd or qauttro, the turbo is the same :!: :!: :!:
ko3 have the same downpipe as ko3s ,mk4 boys swaping them without any modifications


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## GanXteR

kazinak said:


> ganxter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kazinak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ganxter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be interested in this but think we are the minority on here.
> 
> Main issues being fmic and 3 inch down pipe options. Best place to look for options is on the seat Ibiza forums but they are 2wd remember...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
> 
> 
> 
> just to clear thigs up
> 
> 180 dowpipe are the same on all models ,only the cat is diferent :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The turbos different and the down pipe joins it so it can't be the same
> 
> Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i have ETKA in front of me and it says you are wrong,
> 
> 180 has ko3s turbo , it doesn't mater fwd or qauttro, the turbo is the same :!: :!: :!:
> ko3 have the same downpipe as ko3s ,mk4 boys swaping them without any modifications
Click to expand...

Well what does this say? http://www.42draftdesigns.com/categories/products/tt180qdp.html

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2


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## Adam-tt

it says 
Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage :lol:


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## GanXteR

Bloody tapatalk wait till I get home ha!

Actually managed to sort it now :smile:

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2


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## kazinak

the gaskets from turbo to dp part numbers are the same, the shape ,lamba location is also the same, one difference is the Q have two cats like 225, 
it seem like some using Quattro badge as a excuse to charge more , the turbo is fitted in the same location on all models and there is enough room between the popshaft and dp to play around :wink:

the ebay one for £80 i would say is worth a try :roll:


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## kazinak

Adam-tt said:


> it says
> Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage :lol:


http://www.42draftdesigns.com/categorie ... 80qdp.html


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## GanXteR

kazinak said:


> the gaskets from turbo to dp part numbers are the same, the shape ,lamba location is also the same, one difference is the Q have two cats like 225,
> it seem like some using Quattro badge as a excuse to charge more , the turbo is fitted in the same location on all models and there is enough room between the popshaft and dp to play around :wink:
> 
> the ebay one for £80 i would say is worth a try :roll:


Kaz if your willing to get involved so we can prove this I'll get it on ;-)

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2


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## leholtet

But if the quattro one has 2 cats like the 225, cant we just use 225 downpipe? or doesnt it fit the turbo?


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## Alec's TT

180 fwd, 180 awd and 225 all have different downpipes. The ko4 020 is the 225 turbo and will not just "bolt onto" a 180. The ko4 001 will bolt right up to a 180.

Edit: Also good numbers are being seen with this vs ko4 001

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... 4H-T/page3

http://www.frankenturbo.com/new/F4T.html


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## GanXteR

Alec's TT said:


> 180 fwd, 180 awd and 225 all have different downpipes. The ko4 020 is the 225 turbo and will not just "bolt onto" a 180. The ko4 001 will bolt right up to a 180.
> 
> Edit: Also good numbers are being seen with this vs ko4 001
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... 4H-T/page3
> 
> http://www.frankenturbo.com/new/F4T.html


Wow that was a really good read, now to find me a frankenturbo in the UK


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## leholtet

Wow! 285 BHP with just 440ccm injectors, and k04-001 turbo? nothing more?


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## GanXteR

Got a different smic and water mist I think

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2


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## leholtet

I've been trying to search the net.. but i cant seem to find out if the k04-001 will fit my car with quattro?

I only see people with FWD who have done this.. Im thinking the drive shaft will be in the way?


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## crzygreek

leholtet said:


> I've been trying to search the net.. but i cant seem to find out if the k04-001 will fit my car with quattro?
> 
> I only see people with FWD who have done this.. Im thinking the drive shaft will be in the way?


The turbo has nothing to do with the drive shaft. The turbo will fit and you will need to get the appropriate TT180 down pipe, I suggest the 3" relentless one w/ cat to get the max performance out of that -001!


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## leholtet

Ok.. I will surely look into it 

Im centrain that i read some where that the K04-001 exhaust housing was a down-facing 4 bolt configuration like a FWD mk4,
and that the driveshaft would be in the way of this configuration on a 180Q?

Perhaps its wrong?


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## s3tt

Hi,

The 180TT has the same K03s turbo as in the golfs and A3's, It's exactly the same fitment and the driveshafts aren't an issue.

You will need a different exhaust downpipe and decat/cat from the FWD cars though as the prop shaft will get in the way of the exhaust otherwise, exhaust manifolds remain the same.

You will be very hard pushed to get a true 250bhp out of a K03s it just wont flow enough to do it.

A K04-001 is a direct bolt on alternative to the K03s and with the correct mods will get you to around 250-260Bhp. The k04-001 is basically a K03s but with the K04 turbine from the 225bhp TT. You really should look at the following mods to get around 250 bhp

A ported exhaust manifold
K04-001 turbo
3" downpipe and decat/sports cat
Vr6 or TT Maf
380cc injectors
Silicone Tip
FMIC ( the bigger the better )
Remap

There is also another option which is K03 hybrid, this will make you around 280Bhp+ with pretty much the same mods. You'd be looking at one with the internals of the K04 from the 225Bhp TT but in the K03 form.. With masses of torque to boot as well.

Hope this helps.


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## leholtet

Thanks for the answer mate!

So - if i buy a k04-001, i will need a FWD downpipe? a 180Q downpipe won't fit? Or did you mean the oposite?

And - K03 hybrid is a new thing for me. Will this be bolt on with the standard manifold (wich i can port), and a 180Q downpipe?


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## s3tt

leholtet said:


> Thanks for the answer mate!
> 
> So - if i buy a k04-001, i will need a FWD downpipe? a 180Q downpipe won't fit? Or did you mean the oposite?
> 
> And - K03 hybrid is a new thing for me. Will this be bolt on with the standard manifold (wich i can port), and a 180Q downpipe?


Hi, Sorry if it was a little confusing, You will need a 180Q downpipe if you have a 180TT quattro

This is the one you need
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-A3-TT-18 ... 35beb017e1

Yes a K03 hybrid is a bolt on turbo, To some extent the K04-001 is a hybrid but just made buy BW. It is idnetical to a standard K03s but just has more grunt.


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## Guzi

who you have to have a de cat? is there no other way around it?


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## s3tt

nope, find a decent sports cat instead of the decat, or get someone to weld one of these into the pipe for you

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL-HIG ... 19d2816a67


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## leholtet

Ok. So - the K04-001 will fit, on a fwd, quattro TT, no difference as long as i buy a 180Q downpipe? 

If i find a decent priced K03S Hybrid, i will buy that.. but from what i found untill now.. its so expensive!


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## Guzi

yeah i'd rather have a good sports cat instead of the decat.


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## s3tt

No no..

If you have a 180TT quattro then you need the one in the link I put up, If you have a 180TT FWD then you will need just a stock 3"dp and decat, the same as the ones listed for the VW golfs and Audi A3's. The difference is that the quattro has the prop shaft and thus needs to be different.


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## Guzi

mine a 180 quattro so i'd just need the sports cat then and that link pipe? no need for a decat?


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## Guzi

i thought the FWD was four wheel drive (quattro) is that front wheel drive then. Jeez every days a school day!


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## reesy

The k03 and k03s use the same downpipe. The 2wd obviously differs from the quattro one though, due to the prop.

FWD = Front Wheel Drive
Not many people call the Audi a 4WD, generally known as a quattro...


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## leholtet

Ok then.. so a k04-001 will fit on my quattro.. wich i was wondering, since most of the kits are for FWD, i suspected the driveshafts might be in the way.. But its good to know that it isnt, and that i can fit a k04-001 on my quattro 180 

Will order downpipe later today, and change the turbo later


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## GanXteR

Sorry if I'm being thick, but you mentioned a ported exhaust mani earlier on in this thread. Is this the standard 180 manifold opened up or a direct replacement?


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## s3tt

Yes,

A stock exhaust manifold opened up and ported is good for this setup..


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## GanXteR

Thanks for clearing that up!

Also would you be able recommend a good fmic for the 180 to start running these sorts of figures? I'm on stage 1 revo now and was told that the fmic was the next step for me.


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## s3tt

Hi

I'm sure others may have an opinion but this one is pretty good to be honest
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FMIC-FFRONT-M ... 483b112536

I've used it on a few builds now, and while it's better fitting on a 225 because of the pipe lay out it's definately capable of being fitted to the 180bhp. I'm literally at the moment fitting one to a 180, and will be making up some welded intercooler pipes to run inside the engine bay to make it look more stock. but it can easily be done with alloy pipe and silicone joiners. total cost of the FMIC, pipe work and Clips came to around £210. I'll get some pictures up over the next week or so with details on it.


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## GroverUK

Right guys! There seems to be plenty of people quite interested in seeing what can be done with the 180 at the moment, me included, also we seem to get about one post a month asking about getting more power out of a 180. 
99% of the replys to these posts seems to be "sell it and buy a 225" which is obviously unhelpful and getting a bit boring now, after all we dont troll every 225 owner wanting more power by telling them to sell there 225 and buy a Subaru!

I think its about time we (with alot of help from s3tt :wink: ) tried to put together a definitive list of mods to reach a realistic target of around the late 200's so not having to change the internals and getting overly costly. At least then we all have a go to guide and also when we get the monthly post asking how, all that will be needed will be a link to the post.

Im thinking 2 lists very similar to the one in s3tt's post, 1 for the FWD and 1 for the quattro. Somthing like this and try and also put links to recomened products for each part of the list.
A ported exhaust manifold
K04-001 turbo
3" downpipe and decat/sports cat
Vr6 or TT Maf
380cc injectors
Silicone Tip
FMIC ( the bigger the better )
Remap

So, anyone else think this is a good idea? Are you willing to help out the poor old 180 brigade s3tt?


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## Guzi

Yes mate its a good idea and well said, I have no interest in selling mine knowing how much I've spent on mods and maintenance. Realistically I was looking for ways to get to 260-275bhp and roughly how much it would cost to get there.


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## GanXteR

I'm already thinking this is the best thread I have seen in ages and s3 has become the god of the180 mods :lol:

Like you said grover all we seem to get is 'sell up and get a 225' and its refreshing to see some pretty healthy bhp figures which I never thought possible.


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## GroverUK

GanXteR said:


> I'm already thinking this is the best thread I have seen in ages and s3 has become the god of the180 mods :lol:
> 
> Like you said grover all we seem to get is 'sell up and get a 225' and its refreshing to see some pretty healthy bhp figures which I never thought possible.


At the end of the day mate any figures are possible from just about any engine if you throw enough money at it. I was at a jap car show last month and there was a civic there that had over 500 bhp and it still had its 1.6 block. The way ive always thought about it is if audi only ever made tt's in 180 then every body would be modding them and getting good results. Just because theres a higher powered standard one on the market then the 180 are made out to be some type of joke. On the seat cupra board the leon cupras are extremly popular even though theres the cupra r, they dont get looked down on. 
It a labour of love. Trying to get over 300bhp from a 225 isnt exactly cost effective. A subaru and a remap gets you well over 300bhp and can be had for 3k but i think its great that others are trying to see whats possible, why not try with the 180?

s3tt where are yoooooouuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## s3tt

I'm down in Surrey...

So figures wise based on recent builds

230Bhp from a K04-001 but this was with a stock manifold, exhaust and small fmic on an A3 but the same pretty much as the 180

282Bhp from a K03/K04 Hybrid. This was on 99ron fuel with no WMI.

I also have a 300bhp unit, I've sold a couple of these but no-one has yet got one on the DYNO ( on paper they are 320Bhp unit ) but I think due to the K03 housing it's not going to hit that and 300 is a good figure to aim for.

Other than the turbo, everything else is availble , cheaply and easily and will make more power than a stage1 225bhp and possibly a stage 2 225bhp.

lets see if we can get a 180 hyrbrid over 300bhp!! I'm up for it...


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## GroverUK

And so is she


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## leholtet

Im going for the setup mentioned above here.. Just wondering wich K03S hybrid to buy.. its a really big partjungle out there 

Will 380cc injectors hold for 300bhp?


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## GroverUK

S3tt, fancy moving up to the north east? Its great up here, honest!! :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## s3tt

leholtet said:


> Im going for the setup mentioned above here.. Just wondering wich K03S hybrid to buy.. its a really big partjungle out there
> 
> Will 380cc injectors hold for 300bhp?


380cc @ 4 bar will

Id suggest 440's though as they'll run at 3bar and cover 300Bhp with ease.

380cc will see you good for around 285bhp
440's will see you good for around 310bhp


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## s3tt

GroverUK said:


> S3tt, fancy moving up to the north east? Its great up here, honest!! :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I spent 48hours in Middlesborough once, helping evict some tenants out of a friends rented house. I swore I'd never go back.. thankfully TNT go there so at least I can get a turbo to you, so all is not lost...Hahah...


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## L0z

I would like a hybrid. I'm beginning to think I should hold of my map until I get the hybrid fitted...

L


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## GroverUK

s3tt said:


> GroverUK said:
> 
> 
> 
> S3tt, fancy moving up to the north east? Its great up here, honest!! :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> I spent 48hours in Middlesborough once, helping evict some tenants out of a friends rented house. I swore I'd never go back.. thankfully TNT go there so at least I can get a turbo to you, so all is not lost...Hahah...
Click to expand...

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## leholtet

s3tt said:


> leholtet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im going for the setup mentioned above here.. Just wondering wich K03S hybrid to buy.. its a really big partjungle out there
> 
> Will 380cc injectors hold for 300bhp?
> 
> 
> 
> 380cc @ 4 bar will
> 
> Id suggest 440's though as they'll run at 3bar and cover 300Bhp with ease.
> 
> 380cc will see you good for around 285bhp
> 440's will see you good for around 310bhp
Click to expand...

Ok.. can i put on 440 without changing the fuel pressure regulator? And, if i install them before the turbo, will it do any harm?


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## Kprincess

Alec's TT said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl34hVx8Lss


Thats a bullet


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## Diveratt

leholtet said:


> s3tt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> leholtet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im going for the setup mentioned above here.. Just wondering wich K03S hybrid to buy.. its a really big partjungle out there
> 
> Will 380cc injectors hold for 300bhp?
> 
> 
> 
> 380cc @ 4 bar will
> 
> Id suggest 440's though as they'll run at 3bar and cover 300Bhp with ease.
> 
> 380cc will see you good for around 285bhp
> 440's will see you good for around 310bhp
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok.. can i put on 440 without changing the fuel pressure regulator? And, if i install them before the turbo, will it do any harm?
Click to expand...

If you change the injectors you will need to get the engine mapped so its not just a simple plug in and go. It may be better to save fitting them till you have done a few mods and get them all mapped together as its going to cost £200 to £350 each time you do a custom map change.


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## nelmanners

Hi, don't you guys also need to change the con rods? The 225 has forged con rods and the 180's not. Would it not be better to do that before increasing HP?


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## MichaelAC

I completely understand the wish to get a little more horsepower from any TT and once you have a car you've nurtured and spent money on then selling it and getting the same thing with a marginally different engine isn't going to be the answer.

However, before going too high on horse power it is worth noting that the 225 model has various engine components, strengthened, because Audi decided that it was necessary to do this for the extra power. Now, Audi will, of course, over engineer their engines, for reliability, like any other manufacturer and it will be able to take more power than it originally comes with but I think consideration of just how much power is a wise increase, whilst maintaining reliability, is important. I would say that 250 HP would be quite high and any more might cause issues. That's my thought but I'm not an expert.

There does seem to be loads of good technical advice on this thread so I'm sure all will be well within sensible confines so good luck and enjoy it....


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## leholtet

nelmanners said:


> Hi, don't you guys also need to change the con rods? The 225 has forged con rods and the 180's not. Would it not be better to do that before increasing HP?


That is only for the AWP 180 engine and some newer ones, the rest got forged con rods as i know.  I may be wrong! 

I have the AJQ engine.. Wich is an early version of the 180T, it has 20mm wrist pins... So.. I guess it has the forged cons? Can anybody confirm?

Edit: Found this on the net, AEB, AGU, AJQ, APP, APX, BAM, AMU, AUL, APX, AWD and APH engine codes have 20mm wrist pins, all others have 19mm wrist pins.

I guess 20mm is the forges ones, and the 19mms are not?


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## s3tt

20mm pins aren't an issue, I would be cautious with the 19mm pins. AJQ have 20mm ones which cover most of the uk spec 180s I believe.

It definitely worth considering rods, but at £1000 to do min it's a big outlay, 300lbs torque is the max you want to run on stock rods, but I've seen a badly tuned s3 bend a rod at 262bhp! Peace of mind says fit rods.


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## bluslc

here is usefull info on 1.8T


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## Hawkeye2002

GroverUK said:


> Right guys! There seems to be plenty of people quite interested in seeing what can be done with the 180 at the moment, me included, also we seem to get about one post a month asking about getting more power out of a 180.
> 99% of the replys to these posts seems to be "sell it and buy a 225" which is obviously unhelpful and getting a bit boring now, after all we dont troll every 225 owner wanting more power by telling them to sell there 225 and buy a Subaru!
> 
> I think its about time we (with alot of help from s3tt :wink: ) tried to put together a definitive list of mods to reach a realistic target of around the late 200's so not having to change the internals and getting overly costly. At least then we all have a go to guide and also when we get the monthly post asking how, all that will be needed will be a link to the post.
> 
> Im thinking 2 lists very similar to the one in s3tt's post, 1 for the FWD and 1 for the quattro. Somthing like this and try and also put links to recomened products for each part of the list.
> A ported exhaust manifold
> K04-001 turbo
> 3" downpipe and decat/sports cat
> Vr6 or TT Maf
> 380cc injectors
> Silicone Tip
> FMIC ( the bigger the better )
> Remap
> 
> So, anyone else think this is a good idea? Are you willing to help out the poor old 180 brigade s3tt?


Agree fully. Couldn't have said it better myself


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## GroverUK

Balls!! [smiley=bigcry.gif] Mines ARY which puts me in the 19mm catagory. Think that might be me out of the game [smiley=bomb.gif]


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## aaron_tt

GroverUK said:


> Balls!! [smiley=bigcry.gif] Mines ARY which puts me in the 19mm catagory. Think that might be me out of the game [smiley=bomb.gif]


Yeah me too im a ARY engined 180 too.

Have read through this whole thread as im extremely interested in the future getting more performance out of my TT but looking at that, graph of specifications apparently my ARY has a ko3 sport turbo? Is that actually a better turbo at all? Or is the 'sport' fairly meaningless? :lol:


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## GanXteR

I'm afraid I'm an ARY as well :-o


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## Guzi

Come on guys having an ARY engine surely doesn't mean it can't beefed up!


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## GanXteR

I spose its because it means its 19mm forged rods for us boo!


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## GroverUK

I supose we'll have to see what s3tt has to say on the matter. If all the internals have to be changed before we even start to think about this then we could be in for a couple of thousand before we even begin. Dont get me wrong im not giving up quite yet but the tt is my daily drive so reliability will always come first!


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## GroverUK

aaron_tt said:


> GroverUK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Balls!! [smiley=bigcry.gif] Mines ARY which puts me in the 19mm catagory. Think that might be me out of the game [smiley=bomb.gif]
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah me too im a ARY engined 180 too.
> 
> Have read through this whole thread as im extremely interested in the future getting more performance out of my TT but looking at that, graph of specifications apparently my ARY has a ko3 sport turbo? Is that actually a better turbo at all? Or is the 'sport' fairly meaningless? :lol:
Click to expand...

Not really, the difference between the k03 and the k03s = 30 bhp. So things could be worse :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Alec's TT

Any ATC guys out there? We got 20's!!! But we are narrow band o2 sensored. That is a big part in running a hybrid. I have been in contact with my tuner and unitronic regarding the stg 2+ tune specifically for the frankenturbo on the 180bhp. They say that i would have to switch to wideband.

http://audittmk1.blogspot.com/2009/01/t ... -info.html

The ATC engine, used in model year 2000 TTs, uses 20mm wrist pin rods, which makes its internals identical (strength wise) to those used in both 225 motors. However, in 2001, Audi started using the AWP motor which does in fact have weaker 19mm rods. The rods shouldn't be trusted for applications above roughly 300 ft-lbs of torque.

Info on the ko4 001
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4223472

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... ChYCs&NR=1


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## leholtet

Looks like the AJQ 180 and the BAM 225 has the same compression ratio aswell.. 9:5:1

Its only the newer engines, APX,AMU that has 9:0:1..


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## s3tt

leholtet said:


> Looks like the AJQ 180 and the BAM 225 has the same compression ratio aswell.. 9:5:1
> 
> Its only the newer engines, APX,AMU that has 9:0:1..


A lot of info in that list is wrong, mainly comp ratios! BAM is 9.0:1 And use of vvt and large port heads. I wouldn't trust it to be honest, most is correct but not all. Unfortunately the 19mm pins on the ARY is correct, which will limit the power run.

I still think a 280bhp and similar torque would be possible with these.

As for the engine having narrowband and no good for tunning, well I dont agree. Wideband is far easier to tune but any mapper worth there salt could map a narrow band just as well as a wideband and as there are cars out there running 340-400bhp on n2o can't see why they would say you need to upgrade, yes it's a good idea but definable not critical

If there's still interest I can happily post a definitive list of required mods .


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## leholtet

Would be great!

And for the AJQ, can that be tunet to around 300 bhp without changing the connection rods? Got 20mm wrist pin..


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## s3tt

leholtet said:


> Would be great!
> 
> And for the AJQ, can that be tunet to around 300 bhp without changing the connection rods? Got 20mm wrist pin..


300bhp/300lbs torque is really the limit. Like I say seen ones go at 270bhp and heard of ones running 300+bhp without issue. The torque is the killer, big boost spikes etc so keep them in check you should be ok.

I'll draw up a list for the Q .


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## leholtet

Great!  Most bang for bucks 

I will copy it to the first page aswell..


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## GroverUK

Right, sorry for pestering you s3tt and dragging you into this but depending on your answer this might be my last question anyway.

With what we all now know, in your honest opinion what really can be done with the ARY without spending big money on changing all the internals too. If your taking the head off to replace valves then it seems false economy not doing pistons ect too. By this time, with labour we're over a couple of grand in before we even begin. Then adding the proposed mods, we'll be possibly spending over the value of the car to get this done which im not sure im prepared to do. As i said before the saftey and reliability of the engine is paramount for me.

So what is the max the ARY can safley cope with on standard internals, and how would we achive this. I supose we need to work out whether the power to be gained to money spent make this a no go or not!

Again, sorry for the long post s3tt. I, and im sure others really appreciate the help you have given us. [smiley=cheers.gif]


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## L0z

The most you can do with out going down the hybrid route would be.

Downpipe and decat / sports cat
Free flowing exhaust
Induction kit of some sort
Front mount intercooler
Map

This would probably be in the region of 230ish or though some of the golf boys have claimed 250 lolz.

It's not about the power in my mind anyway, it's how it drives, mine goes like stink and it's only had a stage one map but it does have all the other mods stated up above. I hope to see a bit more after a stage 2 map 

Hope this helps?


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## Kprincess

L0z said:


> The most you can do with out going down the hybrid route would be.
> 
> Downpipe and decat / sports cat
> Free flowing exhaust
> Induction kit of some sort
> Front mount intercooler
> Map
> 
> This would probably be in the region of 230ish or though some of the golf boys have claimed 250 lolz.
> 
> It's not about the power in my mind anyway, it's how it drives, mine goes like stink and it's only had a stage one map but it does have all the other mods stated up above. I hope to see a bit more after a stage 2 map
> 
> Hope this helps?


The best thing I've heard to date> It's not about the power, it's how it drives.


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## GroverUK

L0z said:


> The most you can do with out going down the hybrid route would be.
> 
> Downpipe and decat / sports cat
> Free flowing exhaust
> Induction kit of some sort
> Front mount intercooler
> Map
> 
> This would probably be in the region of 230ish or though some of the golf boys have claimed 250 lolz.
> 
> It's not about the power in my mind anyway, it's how it drives, mine goes like stink and it's only had a stage one map but it does have all the other mods stated up above. I hope to see a bit more after a stage 2 map
> 
> Hope this helps?


If its safe to do so im still not adverse to going down the hybrid route. If the internals are realisticly good for say 270 without going bang (and thats a big if :lol: ) then im happy to carry on going down the hybrid route. Id be more than happy with that much and would still think it'd money well spent.


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## badger5

the 300bhp/300lbft figures continually being stated do not take into account these were "guessed figures" and said way back when these engines were new, and had not performed the many 1000's of cycles they have done.
fatigue stress is what you will never know until it is too late

only peace of mine is tune it down, avoid boost spikes, or fit rods and have proper peace of mind


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## Alec's TT

S3tt, This is what i got back from Uni.

"Hi Alec,

Thanks for that information. Unfortunately your vehicle has a Narrowband ECU therefore the tune-ability and thusly the available software available for it is extremely limited. I would recommend doing a Wideband Conversion (http://www.raceline-ws.com/shop/specialized-harness) to open up your possibilities and have a Frankenturbo file to run in your vehicle. Please let me know if you have any questions!

Thanks,

John Staffi 
U.S. Operations & Technical Support
(t): 866.341.2447 x117
www.unitronic-chipped.com"

Now im in the states in an area where vw/audi is a non existent car modding scene and the only kind of tune i can really get is a canned tune :/ and i have to drive 3 hours to get that.


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## s3tt

Hi Alex,

That's a real shame, I guess in your case then upgrading to w02 would be the easiest option, it's not really that hard, if you can find a car which is been broken and get all the bits then it's a pretty simple swap over, and probably only a couple of hours work. Again if the tune uni offer is good then that probably out ways sticking with n02 and getting it mapped.

I'd suggest you need a setup from a non EGT TT or a VW golf, did uni suggest which wideband setup/ecu to go with?


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## leholtet

Badger5 does not construct any TIP for k03 and the AJQ engine.. are there equal alternatives?


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## s3tt

Depends if going hybrid a good silicone k04 tip works well, you can run the b5 80mm but it needs the water and gear levers modified where as the k04 normal size goes on with a persuasion! But if your running a k03 then I have seen a k04 used as its bigger but with a spacer to fill the in out to the tip inlet size if that makes sense? You basically want a tip the same size as the maf tube running to the turbo.


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## Alec's TT

They recommended the kit in my last post lol. And why non EGT?


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## leholtet

s3tt said:


> Depends if going hybrid a good silicone k04 tip works well, you can run the b5 80mm but it needs the water and gear levers modified where as the k04 normal size goes on with a persuasion! But if your running a k03 then I have seen a k04 used as its bigger but with a spacer to fill the in out to the tip inlet size if that makes sense? You basically want a tip the same size as the maf tube running to the turbo.


Didnt catch it totally.. but - isnt the K03 hybrid the same as the k03 externally? or? either way, i need a TIP for k04?


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## ades tt 180

hi, been reading this with interest...maybe going down this route early next year. was just wondering, if i need a new down pipe and sport cat, would it be better to get a 225 turbo and manifold to suit as i already have a 225 exhaust? would this just bolt straight on?...is the k04-020 a better turbo?...it has been mentioned that a ported 180 manifold would be beneficial so can you get a sport mani for a k03?...


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## badger5

leholtet said:


> s3tt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends if going hybrid a good silicone k04 tip works well, you can run the b5 80mm but it needs the water and gear levers modified where as the k04 normal size goes on with a persuasion! But if your running a k03 then I have seen a k04 used as its bigger but with a spacer to fill the in out to the tip inlet size if that makes sense? You basically want a tip the same size as the maf tube running to the turbo.
> 
> 
> 
> Didnt catch it totally.. but - isnt the K03 hybrid the same as the k03 externally? or? either way, i need a TIP for k04?
Click to expand...

depends on who's unit it is..
a lot machine the k03 comp cover, and some use k04 cover (like dan) and weld the k03 elbow to it... (better job imho)


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## GroverUK

Ive got a better idea :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/clas ... les/666606


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## leholtet

Ok. Thanks  Will fit one when the k03 hybrid is fitted.

s3tt, got the list with all info needed?


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## s3tt

Sorry, Here goes...

So for the 1.8t quattro Hybrid, this is the minimum I'd suggest you need.

3" downpipe and decat/sports cat.

This one is a proven good item, pretty cheap really, but good quality and a direct fit, no adjustment needed. I'd suggest if you want a cat in there to just buy a 200 cell sports cat seperately and get it welded in place as it's a cheaper option that buying a custom made exhaust. Then you need a cat back system to suit... choice is yours on this as there's quite a few.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-A3-TT-18 ... 35beb017e1

Cost £220 + ( 200 sports Cat)

Hybrid turbo

Your choice. Suggest BHP's for these units, or certainly what I would quote 250,280 and 300bhp.

Exhaust Manifold:
Really need a ported manifolds for these setups, noticable gains have been seen by using one, [email protected] can offer a very good service on porting your stock manifold, this would be more than capable and considering the price is a must.

Injectors:

Ideally stock S3/TT 380cc injectors are the best for anything up to 290Bhp, over that and you would need 440cc injectors (3bar) there is some sense in running them on anything around 280bhp to keep opening times sensible. These can be picked up for <£100 these days and are a direct fit into the 180tt manifold

FMIC:

Really what ever takes your fancy, but I've run the large "welly" cooler on a number of cars now and currently fitting one to my hybrid 180TT. 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FMIC-FFRONT-M ... _671wt_952

It needs custom intercoolering pipe work, but all this can be bought on ebay again. I'll be adding a list to hybrid build, and also some pictures of the welded up pipe, to give a more OEM look to the intercoolering pipe work.

Cost including Pipe work around £230

MAF:

Larger maf is needed, S3/TT 225bhp maf is ideal, but the VR6 will be fine, you only need the housing as the actual sensor you have can be used.

TIP:

K04 Tip. A standard S3/TT k04 tip is required due to, in my case using a K04 compressor housing on the Hybrid, this will be direct fit for the turbo and MAF, you can use the 80mm tip but you will need to move the water pipes and gear linkage ( pain )

Extras ( not required but might be nice )

RODS
AGU large port head and pistons (9.5:1)
WMI

All this is just my opinion they are mods I have pretty much always recommended to the hybrids I've sold, mainly as it provides a solid base to work from plus all these parts are readily available and modestly cheap. It goes without saying a good map is needed, but with the ME7.5 ecu on these cars it's should be easy enough for most tuners.

Any questions please ask

Dan


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## SteveAngry

s3tt said:


> Sorry, Here goes...
> 
> So for the 1.8t quattro Hybrid, this is the minimum I'd suggest you need.
> 
> 3" downpipe and decat/sports cat.
> 
> This one is a proven good item, pretty cheap really, but good quality and a direct fit, no adjustment needed. I'd suggest if you want a cat in there to just buy a 200 cell sports cat seperately and get it welded in place as it's a cheaper option that buying a custom made exhaust. Then you need a cat back system to suit... choice is yours on this as there's quite a few.
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-A3-TT-18 ... 35beb017e1
> 
> Cost £220 + ( 200 sports Cat)
> 
> Dan


Dan, do you have any direct experience with this DP?

I'm thinking of purchasing it or the 42 Draft one.

There's a big difference in price and I usually go with mantra "you get what you pay for."

Also, does anyone have any dyno data or experience on how much HP/TQ is freed up by going to a 3" DP on a stock k03 1.8t? I know it made a big difference on my 5cyl cars both stock or hybrid turbos.

Steve


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## leholtet

I dont think it will make a big difference...

BUT - i found this kit.. Frankenturbo, its extremely cheap! Anybody used this?

http://frankenturbo.com/new/F4T.html

it includes manifold, turbo and tip! bolt on for 180's..


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## GroverUK

leholtet said:


> I dont think it will make a big difference...
> 
> BUT - i found this kit.. Frankenturbo, its extremely cheap! Anybody used this?
> 
> http://frankenturbo.com/new/F4T.html
> 
> it includes manifold, turbo and tip! bolt on for 180's..


That is quite interesting and a really good price if the quality's there, but that's a big if! Would be interested to hear if anybody's got any experience of this kit. Would still need forged rods and pistons to run this set up though. Ive heard really good things about the quality of this company's stuff and it seems reasonably priced too.

http://www.intengineering.com/


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## Alec's TT

If you go to the second page you will see some stuff i posted on Frankenturbo. And as for the 42DD 3" dp, its a TIGHT fit but it made a big difference and I got a little more rumble. I also run a cat with mine.

Alec


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## leholtet

Does the AJQ have wideband ecu? and, does that have anything to say when you custom map it?


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## s3tt

Ajq is me7.5 which is a wideband Ecu.


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## leholtet

Great


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## V6RUL

Just get a V6 for 250 out of the box.
Steve


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## leholtet

I know.. but here in norway thats not an easy operation because of the laws 

If i can get 260whp from franken, im satisfied


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## leholtet

The downpipe from XS is ordered  Now i only need a 3" 200 cell cat


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## leholtet

Will this do the job?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-76mm-Centre ... 19cdff50f6

And - will it restrict very much?


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## leholtet

Kaz, s3tt?


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## badger5

V6RUL said:


> Just get a V6 for 250 out of the box.
> Steve


at our curiosity what does the 3.2 do in mpg terms?
MrsB wants a TT and I would like the 3.2 but she would want as much mpg as possible..


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## s3tt

leholtet said:


> Kaz, s3tt?


The only issue is that it's quite tight between the downpipe and propshaft and these are a little wider that the 3" dp. I've not seen how much room is left between the quattro xs DP and prop shaft.


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## leholtet

Ok, so you think the cat will be to fat? :/ Are there any alternatives?

42 draft designs has made one with the exact magnaflow cat.. if i just weld it in the same place, it should fit? The DP's cant be that different 

http://www.42draftdesigns.com/categorie ... 80qdp.html


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## leholtet

XS-power w/o 3" 200 cell cat magnaflow.










42DD w/3" 200 cell cat magnaflow.


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## borcebt

Just to tune-in to this conversation:

I also have the AJQ engine (180bhp) and got and installed the Frankenturbo F4-T kit and here is my thread:

http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=301002

I have not dynoed my car yet but I raced a chipped 225TT and I was almost as fast as him, so I would say a 250bhp maybe? (this is if chipped 225TT's get to 260bhp when stage 1). The kit has potential of up to 300bhp I guess but I fear of needing to change the rods and maybe the clutch so I will probably not go for more...


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## leholtet

You should really get a custom map to see how much you can achieve! 

Did the manifold->turbo->downpipe fit without problems? is the fitting points at the excact same place?


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## V6RUL

badger5 said:


> V6RUL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just get a V6 for 250 out of the box.
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> at our curiosity what does the 3.2 do in mpg terms?
> MrsB wants a TT and I would like the 3.2 but she would want as much mpg as possible..
Click to expand...

Tell her it does lots once the tank is full.

Your right foot is the gauge.
Audi won't sell a car that isn't respectable for the engine capacity..we leave that to Rolls and the Americans.

Average somewhere between 26 and 34 depending on driving style.
Steve


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## borcebt

leholtet said:


> You should really get a custom map to see how much you can achieve!
> 
> Did the manifold->turbo->downpipe fit without problems? is the fitting points at the excact same place?


I will get a custom map soon, I hope it won't start snowing here before I do that in order to be able to make some test runs 

About the fitment... the turbo sits a little bit lower than the K03 but it's not a problem, the oil and coolant lines and the downpipe are flexible enough so it fits OK and runs without issues like rubbing agains the chasis when the engine moves inside its mounts. Your exhaust tip may sit higher/lower because of this but it can be corrected easily later. If you read my insights on my topic, the only problems with the fitment was that I didn't have smaller nuts (the copper colored ones) and it's really inaccessible if you put the original manifold nuts there because the FrankenTurbo's manifold is bigger and there is no space to put a correctly sized wrench there but I did with a modified open-ended wrench (I modified it by using acetylene torch and some twisting) so you better find those smaller nuts. Also, the fitment of the TIP is problematic because of the heater core hard line (it is right in the middle where the TIP should enter the turbo). I corrected this by unbolting it from the block and twisting it with a crowbar while holding on the other side so it didn't break (but it was very close to breaking). The other solution is to cut this line shorter and run a rubber hose to the heater core but when you cut the hard line there will be no lip on it and the clamps will slip, that's why I risked and bent this line. Also, don't forget to order OEM gaskets because they are not contained in the kit. You will need steel (OEM) block to manifold, manifold to turbo and turbo to downpipe gaskets and also small metal ring-gaskets for the coolant and oil banjo lines (I think you need 8 of them 2 of which need to be bigger in size, the dealers will see in ETKA and order the correct ones). Be very careful when mounting the oil and coolant lines with those banjo lines (torque them to specs) because if they leak... you need to take the turbo off again and that's not going to be fun. My only leak was at the coolant return line that is connected to the block so I did not have to take the turbo off (huh) and just replaced the gaskets and re-torqued again and it was OK (but I had to flush the coolant one more time because of this). One more thing... if you have the original intake or wakbox order the 3-to-2.5 inch adaptor along with the FrankenTurbo kit, if you have an aftermarket it's probably 3 inch so the TIP will fit OK. Also, my Bosch 710N diverter valve broke soon after installing this kit so and aftermarket DV is a must (it you don't already have one). I think that you have an option to order a good DV along with the kit (it looks similar to the Forge 007 valve).

Good luck


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## leholtet

Thanks mate! I need to replace my turbo anyway, so im thinking of buying this kit after christmas 

I already got the exhaust manifold gasket, to the turbo, and there was a new gasket included when i bought the dp 

I will follow your thread! And please post the result here aswell!  Would be exciting to see how much a custom map would do, and if it can do over 300 BHP ..


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## s3tt

leholtet said:


> Thanks mate! I need to replace my turbo anyway, so im thinking of buying this kit after christmas
> 
> I already got the exhaust manifold gasket, to the turbo, and there was a new gasket included when i bought the dp
> 
> I will follow your thread! And please post the result here aswell!  Would be exciting to see how much a custom map would do, and if it can do over 300 BHP ..


Don't think you'll get near 300bhp with that turbo. 280 max. Looking at the compressor map it flows peak at 28lbs which roughly 280bhp(crude) and also 225grams air which again is c280bhp... It simply won't flow and I honestly believe if Doug (mr frankenturbo) could get 300bhp from it then he would have , it's a great spec turbo just not a 300bhp turbo...


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## Diveratt

If you are thinking about turbos anyway it may be worth talking to Sam on the Relentless FB page. I know they are looking at putting a GT2871 flange on the Relentless manifold it should give around 350


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