# mk1 roadster roof issue



## Alastair1969 (Mar 10, 2012)

Hi there all. I have a developing problem with my roof. Here is what happens:

Works with power when opening. I can put the top down, then the windows flip up and down quickly a few times, the roof lowering dash warning light starts to blink. The courtesy light come on. And the roof will not close via switch. It can be closed by manually closing it.

After manually closing it, and leaving it for half an hour, it will open and close. When I open it, it might then start to play up while driving, the windows will flip up and down again etc and we're back to square one.

I have just fitted new door micro switches, but I don't think that the issue is connected as its pathology became symptomatic before the new switch was replaced.

The behaviour is becoming more regular.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Al

MK1 2001 Roadster 225


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## Jez xbx (Oct 24, 2014)

Water ingress to CCM or hydraulic motor possibly?


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## Eric V. (Apr 28, 2012)

See topic
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1529434

Eric V.


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## Alastair1969 (Mar 10, 2012)

Thank you Jez and Eric.

It might seem then that one of the relays might be starting to fail. It doesn't seem like too onerous a job to replace them. Is there a step by step guide that anyone can point me too. (Similar to the step by step guide for replacing the door microswitch). My symptoms do seem a little similar, and I guess that the micro switch could cause , the open/close dash warning light to flash on off, the courtesy lights to come on, both door windows to flip up and down a few times, and then finally, failure to close the roof. I guess because this doesn't happen all the time, but increasingly frequent, this suggests the relays are failing.

Also. Can anyone know an *ebay *or *maplin *link to where I might get these replacement parts ?
(Again, with the door microswitch, someone gave an ebay link to the exact part that was needed and this was perfect.)

Thanks again Jez and Eric.

AL


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## black9146 (Jul 3, 2014)

TYCO V231 34-A52-X278


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## black9146 (Jul 3, 2014)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Tyco-V231 ... SwgZ1XvHGu


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## Alastair1969 (Mar 10, 2012)

Thanks very much for that link. I've just bought the relays. These look like pull out and push in. I guess these are easy to remove and replace. I've read on the forum that one accesses the area through the rear shelf area on the right as one faces the rear. Can these relays easily be pulled from there or does the motor need to be removed too ( via the boot) in order to get to the relays.

Cheers

Al


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## black9146 (Jul 3, 2014)

I think they are accessible from behind the passenger seat in the area where the roof folds down in to. But other forum members reckon its easier to get to the motor through the "letterbox" in the boot and pulling the motor through in to the boot.


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## miknix (Jul 26, 2015)

I would also check the switch located in the dashscreen frame, where the roof connects with a striker pin. There is a small switch there to indicate the car when you closed the rooftop. In my case this switch started requiring more pressure to activate, so I just glued a square of acrylic sheet on top and now it works perfectly. Without the fix, the yellow roof sign wouldn't in the dashboard wouldn't go away after closing and sometimes the light would turn on while driving making it impossible to fully close the windows.


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## Alastair1969 (Mar 10, 2012)

Thanks for this.

@ Miknix. Thank you. I did check this, and ruled it out as the issue doesn't seem to be there when the roof is closed and locked. In my case it's when the roof is fully open the light flashes as though the roof is still being opened when it has fully opened, and also, the windows flip up and down a little bit, and the courtesy light remains on, and the roof will not close.

I've ordered the relays and will embark on cutting the fibre cover when they arrive.

Does anyone know, is there anything under the fibre cover that is susceptible to a scalpel. Are there cables just under there that might get cut, do I need to be extra delicate in certain areas. Also, when replacing, is it ok just to relocate the fibre cover without fixing, or should it be re fixed in place?

Thanks all

Al


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## black9146 (Jul 3, 2014)

Don't think there is anything just under the surface but just be careful. The flap is held on with a length of elastic type material so just put it back in place, no need for glue or anything. Let us know how you get on


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## Eric V. (Apr 28, 2012)

http://www.wak-tt.com/guides/ttr.pdf

See page 18 microswitch softtop stowed
If this switch does not work it can gif the problems you have.

Eric V.


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## ERN900T (Jan 12, 2017)

The block fuses come out ok with a bit of patience and the access was better than I expected.
Ok, you have to be a bit of a contortionist and small hands help, but I've had cars where its worse !

I'm waiting the new Tyco relays as well. Race on !!!


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## Alastair1969 (Mar 10, 2012)

Thanks all for your advice. Still waiting for the relays to arrive. But I have been looking around and noticed something. So I thought I would put it to you guys.

Going down both sides of the car, near the rear fixings of the roof, (eg, near to the visible microswitch on the passenger side) there is a smallish wring loom, this seems to come up from the hole and then go somewhere around the roof. There is one on both sides. (near to the reservoir that collects water that comes between the rubber seal and the roof) (I'll come on to this in a minute) They are both relatively loose and not firmly attached.

Relating to the passenger side loom, it seemed a bit loose so I gave it a bit of a wiggle, and an end appeared, It contained a female electrical connection. Should this be connected to something or is it spare used for something that my car doesn't have? Could this be contributing to the windows flipping up and down etc or is it totally unconnected?

Now, back to those reservoir. I note that the one on the drivers side contains fluid. Should they, or should they simply collect and filter water out of the car?

@JEZ You mentioned water ingress might be a problem. Might this constitute water ingress, or were you referring to something else?

The fact that there is quite a bit of water there, does this suggest that there could be a blockage somewhere that needs unblocking?

ANy thoughts

Thanks
AL


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## miknix (Jul 26, 2015)

Alastair1969 said:


> Thanks all for your advice. Still waiting for the relays to arrive. But I have been looking around and noticed something. So I thought I would put it to you guys.
> 
> Going down both sides of the car, near the rear fixings of the roof, (eg, near to the visible microswitch on the passenger side) there is a smallish wring loom, this seems to come up from the hole and then go somewhere around the roof. There is one on both sides. (near to the reservoir that collects water that comes between the rubber seal and the roof) (I'll come on to this in a minute) They are both relatively loose and not firmly attached.
> 
> ...


The lose wirings near the drain cups are the connection for the hard top. There is also the connection for the rear window going nearby.


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## black9146 (Jul 3, 2014)

The two rectangular containers ( one each side of the car in the roof storage box ) are there to collect any water that comes in between the base of the hood and the metalwork of the car as it isn't a 100% seal there. Water flows into the skirt and is directed into the two containers which each have a hole in the base. Water then goes down the hole and into a drain tube which exits down near the bottom of the wheel arch behind the plastic arch liner. If the drain tubes are blocked this then causes water to build up in the drain tubes which overflow out the top and water then comes into contact with the CCM which is directly below the drainage containers. Some on here have managed to clear the drain tubes using bits of wire etc but be careful as they are only thin gauge polythene and easily torn. If this happens and they need replaced that's a whole different world of pain - trust me I've had to do it [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## Alastair1969 (Mar 10, 2012)

I think this tube must be blocked then as they do have water in them. I've had to mop the water out on a number of occasions. Especially but not solely on the drivers side. I guess these need unblocking at some point. I wonder then if these block, and the ccm (I'm sorry, but I don't know what this is or what it does) then I wonder if this could impact upon the roof issue? I suspect that the blockage has been there for some time, at least several months.

I would not really like to poke anything down them that might cause a bigger problem.


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## black9146 (Jul 3, 2014)

The CCM is the comfort control module which supports a lot of electrical functions in the car - roof operation being the main one. If it gets wet then the internals corrode over time causing problems in the car. Coupe ccm's are around £40 second hand on ebay but roadster ones are nearly £200. Coupe's start with part number 8N8 and roadsters start with 8N7. Can't remember the rest of the numbers offhand but there is a thread on here. Will look tomorrow.


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## Alastair1969 (Mar 10, 2012)

Great. Thank You.
I looked on ebay. Did a simple search for Audi tt roadster CCM and one came up. £99 which is the one for the roadster. I see cheaper ones available £30 ish, but these are for the coupe Just as you mentioned.

The more I consider this issue, the more I feel that the issues that I have could indeed be due to water ingress, as the water drain tanks are not draining and have water in them as I type. So if this has been happening for the length of time that I think it has, then this might suggest the cause.

I have noted internal condensation on occassions, however there seems to be no water getting into the car, the floors are dry.

Would a VAG COM show if the CCM was not functioning effectively?

Also, I checked out the wiring loom on the drivers side too. Both connections are unconnected. Someone mentioned abotu this wiring loom being for the back window. What exactly do you mean. Do you mean, the mist on the back windows, or some other form of operation. Or is it for a different model of car that this roadster doesn't use? I'm a bit confused about this.

Cheers, AL


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## black9146 (Jul 3, 2014)

Just been out and checked mine. There is a cable on both sides going in to the drainage containers. Can't pull any of them up as they are attached. Don't know what these cables are for - rear heated screen ? Having read up on buying a hard top it seems that there is an electrical connection in the posts behind the doors where the tonneau cover clips in to. The idea of these is to let the car know that the tonneau cover is on or the hard top is fitted. This then stops the roof being accidentally opened causing damage ? I am quite happy if someone else can enlighten me on this. When my drain tubes were blocked the carpets were still dry. I think any water getting in and going down the tubes was leaking in to the bulkhead between the car and the boot. My car was smelling damp and when I eventually changed my drain tubes I could see the outlines of dried out dirty water on the metalwork. Don't think that the roof not working properly would throw up any error codes. I have bought a replacement CCM but not fitted it yet as it has to be coded to the car for it to work. I also read somewhere that water can track along the cables and drip in to the rear storage box before it makes it to the drainage container if the cable is not properly in position.


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## miknix (Jul 26, 2015)

Alastair1969 said:


> Great. Thank You.
> 
> Would a VAG COM show if the CCM was not functioning effectively?
> 
> ...


Yes the CCM errors show up in vagcom. If you have CCM issues, due to water ingress they most likely start showing up as intermittent faults.

The roadsters have the option to install a hardtop (separate OEM item I believe, you can find them on eBay, quite expensive). The unconnected cables you see are to be connected to this hard top.


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## Alastair1969 (Mar 10, 2012)

I did just have a look around at some forums relating to the hard top and you are correct that the wires are meant for the hard top rather than unconnected soft top connections. That is a relief. lol.

I wonder whether this CCM issue might impact upon the ESP, causing that light to occasionally come on.

I looked on eBay and there was a chap in Coventry who charged £200 pounds for a new (i presume) CCM fitted, his advert said that he did it within an hour. Worth a consideration for those who don't want to dissect their car.

Re the reservoir issue. I got my partners car ariel, a bit flexible with a lump on the end, and massaged it into the hole, sure enough the water started to appear under the car not from the rear access point, but from somewhere at the front of the rear wheel arch. i then poured a bit of water down the side and out the bottom it came. So this might resolve some issues, but it might also indicate that the tube has perished and might need replacing, but this is a job for another day...a day in the far long distant future! Unless it's an easy fix, I am not so very handy with tools. I tend to embark on a job and then suddenly the y seem to escalate. Experience tells me nothing is ever too straight forward! lol.

I had a look at the hard tops. One of these would come in very useful during the winter, and also when the big tree on my front drive starts dropping sap! Although at those prices!!!!

regards
AL


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## miknix (Jul 26, 2015)

Alastair1969 said:


> I did just have a look around at some forums relating to the hard top and you are correct that the wires are meant for the hard top rather than unconnected soft top connections. That is a relief. lol.
> 
> I wonder whether this CCM issue might impact upon the ESP, causing that light to occasionally come on.
> 
> ...


Check this out:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Car-Accessor ... ible+cover

It's easier to put than a full cover and will reduce the water and debris going into the drain cups.

The CCM is unrelated to ESP. What do you mean by occasional ESP flashes? If it just blinks from time to time it just means there was a wheel slip and the ESP was engaged. If the ESP light stays on, likely an issue with the accelerometers. Its common for the accel ICs to have the solder joints go bad, so people just resolder them or replace the modules. If you do a vagcom scan you will know what's triggering esp faults.


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## black9146 (Jul 3, 2014)

Your drain tubes seem to working as that is the correct point where they should drain to  Replacing the drain tubes is a nightmare job. A lot of the interior trim has to be removed. It took me a whole day to strip it out and replace the tubes then half a day to refit all the trim. The replacement tubes are a much better construction and should last longer than the old ones. Around £54 for the pair from TPS.


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## Alastair1969 (Mar 10, 2012)

Gosh a day and a half to do those tubes. Seems a nightmare.

I like the idea if that cover. I had one last year. A full car one. I used it for a week then the tree sap glued it together, the sap went through the cover and started to bond to the paint. Lol. Sap is actually only sugar, so dissolves easily. But the cover was ruined.

I should invest in a vag com. I did a post a while ago about the best place to get one that was cheap and functional. The advice that came back was to ignore cheap ones and fork out for the real deal.

What I mean by the esp coming on occasionally is exactly that. Occasionally it will come on, I might be going along on a flat road, or approaching a junction. It just sometimes comes on. The fix is easy. When I get to a junction, and stop, I switch the engine off and on again and bingo. The light is off. It happens about once a month sometimes three times every two months.

Cheers guys

Al


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## ERN900T (Jan 12, 2017)

black9146 said:


> there is an electrical connection in the posts behind the doors where the tonneau cover clips in to. The idea of these is to let the car know that the tonneau cover is on or the hard top is fitted. This then stops the roof being accidentally opened causing damage ?.


This could be coincidental but my roof ceased to want to go up when I put the tonneau cover on for the first time I've had the car. Before that it was working fine up and down.

I'm waiting on the two new fuses like the other poster as mine appears dead for closing up but wide awake for putting down.

Could this be another area to explore ...!?


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## black9146 (Jul 3, 2014)

In the door pillar once the tonneau is pushed in to position and it clicks in to place I think somewhere in there lets the ccm know that the tonneau is in place and stops the roof from being closed accidentally. You van push the small oval button in the door pillar in and out and see the catch operating. Don't know if this has an electrical connection inside it but seems coincidental that you had problems with your roof after the tonneau was fitted ?


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## ERN900T (Jan 12, 2017)

IT WORKS !!!!

Swapped both relays for new ones and normal service is resumed. Thanks for everyone's advice 

I can only assume that when I fitted the tonneau cover I pressed down too much on the folded roof, so it was enough strain on the up motion to kill the relay ? Either that or the relay pins were a bit tired - I did clean the old ones with electrical contact cleaner but that didn't work.

If anyone else needs to do the same:-
1. The access flap behind the passenger side roll hoop is easy to find once you've been told where to look.
2. Get a torch to see the orientation of the relays (the white writing '++xxxx' manufacturing date? gives you a good guide')
3. Wiggle out the top one first as it makes it easier to get the bottom one out.
4. Wiping the pins on the new ones with some contact cleaner made them very easy to push in.

Thanks for the advice again.


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## Eric V. (Apr 28, 2012)

[smiley=dude.gif]

Eric V.


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## black9146 (Jul 3, 2014)

Great news


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## Alastair1969 (Mar 10, 2012)

ME TOO!
I'm not that brave when it comes to cutting in the car, but this job seemed pretty straight forward. Here's a few pics and some advice.
Step one: Find the place, and use a screwdriver to get into the cover. I cut through the padding with a stanley knife. Here's a point to watch for. See pic. At the far end of the unit is a blue wire. Go very easily when cutting out as it is possible to cut this. My advice is to cut the rest out missing that quadrant, then lift the padding out and continue cutting now that you can see what you are cutting.
Pic 1









Step 2: Have a look around. I immediately noticed that the area was damp. It almost seemed like condensation rather than the result of a deluge!

Step 3:








The relays are on the left side. I used a flat screwdriver to gently lever the top one out first. Unless you are left handed, this is quite awkward. I was kneeling on both front seats with both my arms in between the hoops. I'm 6',2" so it's pretty cramped, but very possible. You can squeeze you hand in between the foam and the relay and with the help of the screwdriver, they come out easily, as mentioned in the post above. MAKE A MENTAL NOTE OF THE DIRECTION OF THE PINS.

The screwdriver makes the second one much easier.

Step 4: 
I dried and wiped the area with some dry kitchen roll. Once the orientation is found, the pins relocated quite easily, and the relay just pushes easily in.

Step 5:








Replace the padding, re-locate the black cover and test. Mine functioned perfectly, although the sky was playing up and throwing water at me.

It worked smoothly and showed no sign of the previous problems. Time will tell whether the CCM unit will need replacing as well.

The final picture is of the relays themselves and the condition they were in.

















Thanks everyone for getting involved in this post, it's been a lot of help to me. 
AL


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