# haldex upgrade



## Boulderman (Jun 3, 2004)

just had one of these fitted. cant recommend this enough. the car is now a 4 wheel drive car. handles much better. read Wak's site for info.


----------



## chriz1000 (Sep 17, 2005)

I was considering this, can you describe in what way the car feels different to standard? Also is fuel consumption increased?


----------



## LoTTie (Aug 2, 2005)

Can I ask where you had it done Boulder? Been pondering this.......where do you notice the main difference and impact?

Thanks!


----------



## Boulderman (Jun 3, 2004)

the handling is much better. straight line acceleration is instant. push the go pedal and its at the rear wheels instantly. the nose doesent rise and overall the feel is of it being rear wheel drive at that stage. cornering is just a different experience entirely, understeer is greatly reduced. powering out of corners is just great. general driving it feels more sure footed. its very hard to descibe in words what its like but simply put it drives like a different car, and a much better handling one at that.


----------



## Boulderman (Jun 3, 2004)

ps fuel consumption is going to be hard for me to assess as i had other work done on the car at the same time that might be affecting the fuel consumption.


----------



## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

chriz1000 said:


> Also is fuel consumption increased?


Yes - for me fuel comsumption has increased because flooring it
out of corners is SOOO much more fun than before


----------



## Silversea (Jun 18, 2002)

I don't know of anyone that has had a Haldex HPP fitted and been disappointed with the results. If you drive your TT like miss Daisy then it will be a waste of cash for you, if on the other hand you enjoy driving your TT then it has to be very close to the top of the list of modifications that you can make to your TT. It transformes the TT to what Audi "should" have offered in the first place.
Really well worth the money IMHO.


----------



## dommorton (Mar 9, 2005)

Does this not place more strain on parts that were designed to deal with less of the power? :?


----------



## Silversea (Jun 18, 2002)

dommorton said:


> Does this not place more strain on parts that were designed to deal with less of the power? :?


I'd doubt it. If anything, it is spreading the torque over 4 wheels rather than on 2. :wink:


----------



## dommorton (Mar 9, 2005)

But I'd imagine the rear drivetrain is lighter and less able than the front one?


----------



## Silversea (Jun 18, 2002)

dommorton said:


> But I'd imagine the rear drivetrain is lighter and less able than the front one?


The Haldex has been designed to accept 50/50 torque split, the modified controller simply has it locked in 50/50 more often than the original controller.
Remember, this controller is made by Haldex themselves,not VW Group.
It is modified to be more like to very latest Haldex design as found on the Golf mk5 and the Volvo to mention a few. It is not as good as the latest design, but MUCH better than the original.
Have a look on Waks site, there's information on there from Haldex direct.


----------



## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

I take it if I do this to a new 3.2 its going to arse the warranty up.

Would seriously consider this if not for concerns over fuel economy. I do 20k miles a year, although I can claim business miles back which is 90% of that I suppose. Mind u depends what mileage you would expect, not sure our accountant would sign off on 20mpg!!


----------



## Silversea (Jun 18, 2002)

Leg said:


> I take it if I do this to a new 3.2 its going to arse the warranty up.
> 
> Would seriously consider this if not for concerns over fuel economy. I do 20k miles a year, although I can claim business miles back which is 90% of that I suppose. Mind u depends what mileage you would expect, not sure our accountant would sign off on 20mpg!!


I've not noticed any difference in fuel economy at all! I'm getting 29 - 30 mpg and I'm not hanging about.


----------



## chriz1000 (Sep 17, 2005)

Defiantly considering
Can someone give me some costs of parts and approx labour time?
Cheers


----------



## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

I have fancied this upgrade from the first time it appeared on the forum. It seems to me that this is very good value for money, provided there is no downside. I'm nearly convinced folks. Can anyone further reassure me that there is no downside?


----------



## westty (Jan 3, 2004)

Is the new Haldex mechanically different to the original? or is the software just programed to make it act differently, if so would'nt it be easier and cheaper just to have the original unit re-programed?

i suppose if it was that easy AMD ect would be offering re-programs :?


----------



## Boulderman (Jun 3, 2004)

the unit is just a bolt on thing so labour not too high. i paid around 600 notes fitted. cant think of a downside with it apart from the intial cash outlay. the fuel consumption shouldnt be too different as it still goes front wheel drive when cruising on the motorway i think. if there is a difference it will be small. cant fault it at the moment but admittly its early days. prehaps those who have had it fitted for a longer time period could comment but i have not heard anything adverse about the upgraded haldex


----------



## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Boulderman said:


> the unit is just a bolt on thing so labour not too high. i paid around 600 notes fitted. cant think of a downside with it apart from the intial cash outlay. the fuel consumption shouldnt be too different as it still goes front wheel drive when cruising on the motorway i think. if there is a difference it will be small. cant fault it at the moment but admittly its early days. prehaps those who have had it fitted for a longer time period could comment but i have not heard anything adverse about the upgraded haldex


Very happy for you. Anyone been running one of these for a long period?


----------



## Wak (May 6, 2002)

I've been running mine for some time now and having an S4 to compare against helps you appreciate how much closer to 4wd it is and less front wheel.

I wouldnt hesitate to do it again, be interested to hear your opinion next time you launch in wet weather.

The haldex is designed for a lot more Torque than a TT can produce so I dont believe there are any concerns on stress that I am aware of, ultimately the tyres should be the weakest link!

:roll: :wink:


----------



## Silversea (Jun 18, 2002)

As Wak said, it is worth every penny. One of the best mods I've made to mine. I understand EIP were working with Haldex and used their 550HP R32 Golf as a testbed. It's now over 700HP!!!  So I don't think many of us are likely to strain it too much!!!


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

How much is just the part and who is the best upplier? Keep meaning to get round to do this :wink:


----------



## sssgucci (Nov 20, 2004)

John-H said:


> How much is just the part and who is the best upplier? Keep meaning to get round to do this :wink:


Awesome GTI, in Warrington.


----------



## chriz1000 (Sep 17, 2005)

Cheers guys, its Â£499 on the website, when I eventually get my car back something Iâ€™m defiantly considering
http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/audi%20tt/ ... ssion.html

Actually, would anyone be interested in trying for a group buy on one of these units?


----------



## Silversea (Jun 18, 2002)

AmD are the Uk importer but I know there are a few suppliers up and down the country. JBS have supplied a few to some on the Golf 4 forum.


----------



## khewett (Jan 16, 2005)

chriz1000 said:


> Cheers guys, its Â£499 on the website, when I eventually get my car back something Iâ€™m defiantly considering
> http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/audi%20tt/ ... ssion.html
> 
> Actually, would anyone be interested in trying for a group buy on one of these units?


I'm intrested in a GB


----------



## chriz1000 (Sep 17, 2005)

Group buy started:
http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... 787#613787

we need 10 people altogether


----------



## chriz1000 (Sep 17, 2005)

Just to let everyone know, the price of the group buy has come down! You could potentially save yourself Â£133.77 on AMDâ€™s usual price. We need 8 other people.


----------



## LoTTie (Aug 2, 2005)

The info on the Haldex controller says simple plug and play - is it as easy to unplug and not play? For example, if you were selling it on? If it is unplugged and removed does the car revert to normal Haldex without any further modifications being needed?

Cheers.


----------



## Silversea (Jun 18, 2002)

LoTTie said:


> The info on the Haldex controller says simple plug and play - is it as easy to unplug and not play? For example, if you were selling it on? If it is unplugged and removed does the car revert to normal Haldex without any further modifications being needed?
> 
> Cheers.


The controller is mounted by 2 small bolts onto the side of the Haldex unit.
You have 2 electrical multiplugs that can be a wee bit awkward. 
To remove and replace the original you would have to replace the gasket / seal, unplug / unbolt.

Easy!


----------



## chriz1000 (Sep 17, 2005)

Iâ€™ve just been informed on the AMD website it quotes a price of Â£700.89 including VAT and fitting, so you will actually be saving Â£144.59!


----------



## pvmltd (Aug 2, 2005)

My concern would not be on the Haldex, but the other related transmission parts, that are not "lifed" for 50% torque 100% of the time.

These would include rear diff head and bearings, rear drive shafts and rear hubs. I guess rear discs/pads will also be doing more work with more torque to control.


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

It's not 50% torque 100% of the time.

There is a controller (or at least was) that allowed you to lock the Haldex, but this isn't it.


----------



## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

I'm in for the GB.

Graham


----------



## andya (Jun 17, 2003)

pvmltd said:


> My concern would not be on the Haldex, but the other related transmission parts, that are not "lifed" for 50% torque 100% of the time.
> 
> These would include rear diff head and bearings, rear drive shafts and rear hubs. I guess rear discs/pads will also be doing more work with more torque to control.


It's not going to be 100% of the time....

Not sure how the pads/disks come into it, unless you brake and hit the throttle at the same time?


----------



## dommorton (Mar 9, 2005)

> My concern would not be on the Haldex, but the other related transmission parts, that are not "lifed" for 50% torque 100% of the time.
> 
> These would include rear diff head and bearings, rear drive shafts and rear hubs


Same as that.

Whatever way you look at it you are throwing more power through these parts more of the time therefore it must reduce their lifespan? :?


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

dommorton said:


> > My concern would not be on the Haldex, but the other related transmission parts, that are not "lifed" for 50% torque 100% of the time.
> >
> > These would include rear diff head and bearings, rear drive shafts and rear hubs
> 
> ...


True... but that's an argument against chipping or having a bigger engine :wink:

When the rear gets engaged at 50%, it's a better front/rear balance and there's only 50% of the load on the front, so increasing the life of the front drivetrain.


----------



## dommorton (Mar 9, 2005)

> so increasing the life of the front drivetrain


LOL true :lol:

You should be in sales!


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

dommorton said:


> > so increasing the life of the front drivetrain
> 
> 
> LOL true :lol:
> ...


 :lol:


----------



## chriz1000 (Sep 17, 2005)

Come on guys, at this price itâ€™s a cheap mod that will totally transform your car into what it always should have been, donâ€™t miss out and pay over the odds! Sign up for the group buy!!!


----------



## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

My data sheet from AMD says that there is a transmission power loss of 41.2 %. Does this percentage increase with the upgraded Haldex, giving more power loss?


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Hi Joe,

Which data sheet is that? When the Haldex locks it trasmits all the power as far as I know, which gives you a 50:50 split front to rear.

John


----------



## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

TTCool said:


> My data sheet from AMD says that there is a transmission power loss of 41.2 %. Does this percentage increase with the upgraded Haldex, giving more power loss?


Interesting point - Because the power has to turn through 90 degrees
on the rears only, there will be a greater percentage loss I presume
at the rears than at the 'parallel' fronts. :?

The big loss is the fact that it's 4WD 

Does anybodyknow the transmission loss from a FWD only TT :?:


----------



## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

John-H said:


> Hi Joe,
> 
> Which data sheet is that? When the Haldex locks it trasmits all the power as far as I know, which gives you a 50:50 split front to rear.
> 
> John


 Joe is talking about the % loss between the power at the
flywheel and power at the wheels in total.


----------



## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Not sure what I'm talking about really :!: :lol: I'm looking at the DynoPlot - Summary which AMD gave me in their lovely black folder. :roll:

Power loss ( transmission, tyres etc ): 76.4 bhp (41.2%)

I'm concerned that the Haldex might take away some of the power gain.

Edit: the Upgraded Haldex that is.


----------



## Boulderman (Jun 3, 2004)

i had mine on the rolling road after fitting. i will try and get the figures so you can see the transmission loss.


----------



## Boulderman (Jun 3, 2004)

73 hp loss through transmission @ 260hp
80hp loss through transmission @235hp

hope that helps


----------



## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Boulderman

Correct me if I'm wrong. Does this mean that you have sacrificed approximately 7 bhp in order gain some other advantage?

Joe


----------



## khewett (Jan 16, 2005)

TTCool said:


> Boulderman
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong. Does this mean that you have sacrificed approximately 7 bhp in order gain some other advantage?
> 
> Joe


I'm confused hasn't the loss improved (by going down from 80 to 73) as the HP has increased??


----------



## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

khewett said:


> TTCool said:
> 
> 
> > Boulderman
> ...


Which way round are the quotes? Sorry, I've got this flu thing. Please enlighten me.


----------



## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

I really really would like everything to be positive with regard to the Haldex upgrade. I want one, if it's the business.


----------



## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

Boulderman said:


> 73 hp loss through transmission @ 260hp
> 80hp loss through transmission @235hp
> 
> hope that helps


I assume that means that at the wheels you had 155 bhp before the re-map
and now have 187 bhp at the wheels.

I don't know how the dark art of extrapolation to the power at
the flywheel is worked out :? :? :?

All our percentage loss figures stated, appear to add a percentage
from the road figure to the flywheel figure.
It doesn't make sense to me -
I would state the percentage loss as a figure subtracted from the flywheel.


----------



## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Gordon Bennett, can you explain this lot to man with the flu, please? I want one. :roll: :wink:

Edit: No, not the flu, I've already got that.


----------



## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

The bad news is that you have the 'flu 

The good news is that you probably have the time to read this 

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:Cjd ... clnk&cd=15


----------



## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

HighTT said:


> The bad news is that you have the 'flu
> 
> The good news is that you probably have the time to read this
> 
> http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:Cjd ... clnk&cd=15


Just as I thought. It's a black art mixed with a large helping of creative accounting. :lol:

Has anyone fitted the upgrade and noticed any downside? What I'm thinking is better roadholding but a bit less power?


----------



## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

There's only one way to find out. BUY ONE. :roll: :wink:


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

HighTT said:


> The bad news is that you have the 'flu
> 
> The good news is that you probably have the time to read this
> 
> http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:Cjd ... clnk&cd=15


That's an interesting article HighTT 

I always used to take 30% as being a ballpark transmission loss but that's what the rolling road people used to say. For higher powered engines it would mean the transmission would overheat I suspect if it were as much as this.

I remember some old character who ran a rolling road, Harry somebody, who used to continuously smoke a pipe and mutter, "You'd get another 5 BHP out of it if you took those bl**dy M+Ss off"

Joe,

Get better soon [smiley=sick2.gif] . It's your mission whilst off ill to find out for the rest of us  .
You can phone Haldex in Sweden on: Phone: +46 418 47 65 00 or in the US: Telephone +1 734 737 0435 or contact them by on line e-mail on: http://www.haldex-traction.com/contacts ... essage.htm
Ask them if the upgrade is just a software tweak too


----------



## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Your so kind John, will do my best.


----------



## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

John-H said:


> HighTT said:
> 
> 
> > The bad news is that you have the 'flu
> ...


John-H - You've actually read it ALL :?:  - Don't tell me that you have the 'flu too :wink:
Here's another for all you bed-ridden people to plough through :- http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/power3.htm


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

I don't think there is going to be any less power.... all that is happening is that torque is being directed rearwards before slip occurs in some instances - and I think we'd all agree that front wheels slipping IS going to waste power


----------



## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

clived said:


> I don't think there is going to be any less power.... all that is happening is that torque is being directed rearwards before slip occurs in some instances -
> 
> 
> > The point is that there is a greater loss of power through the transmission (via the diff.) when the power has to be turned through 90 degrees - such as in any longitudinally mounted front engined rear wheel drive car.
> ...


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

I suppose it depends how the software handles it. If the Haldex locks for a 50:50 split when you put your foot hard down, 50% of the power will have greater loss. Contrast that with, if it only transfers to the rear if front wheel slip is detected, giving only FWD loss.

It could do both and be clever about it i.e. give premptive torque to the rear from throttle trigger but back off and only stop backing off if front slip is detected. So if the front doesn't slip it goes back to FWD as at present. This would be best of both worlds I recon.

People who've had it fitted say it's good


----------



## chriz1000 (Sep 17, 2005)

A last call for anyone who wants to join the Haldex Upgrade Group Buy, we are all leaving deposits with Jo at AMD at the moment. If you just want the Haldex controller without fitment, it can be arranged for a substantially discounted price too.
If youâ€™re looking into getting one of these units, you wonâ€™t find it cheaper than with this group buy.
http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... hp?t=56824


----------



## MikeyG (Sep 17, 2005)

Can anyone speculate sensibly on what impact this will have on the warranty for a new car? i.e. how many related parts would have their warranty invalidated by fitting the Haldex upgrade?


----------



## dommorton (Mar 9, 2005)

You think the dealer will even notice it? :lol:


----------



## Silversea (Jun 18, 2002)

MikeyG said:


> Can anyone speculate sensibly on what impact this will have on the warranty for a new car? i.e. how many related parts would have their warranty invalidated by fitting the Haldex upgrade?


You can get a Haldex Stealth, it has the same internals / software as the HPP but rather than having the casing painted blue it has the original finish, this would render it undetectable visually..... that is until they drive it! :lol:


----------



## MikeyG (Sep 17, 2005)

Thanks! Sounds a fine plan 8)

Obviously, I couldn't possibly comment on whether I'll be getting one of those though....

You're right, Dom, I don't suppose the dealer's going to notice it - hardly in a prominent position is it! :lol:


----------



## Silversea (Jun 18, 2002)

MikeyG said:


> I don't suppose the dealer's going to notice it - hardly in a prominent position is it! :lol:


They'll notice it when they it!  Much smoother and better grip. :wink:


----------



## chriz1000 (Sep 17, 2005)

Come on guys, donâ€™t miss out, the group buy is open for a couple more days!
If you have any questions donâ€™t hesitate to send me a message.
Simply click the link below to find out more about the group buy!
8)


----------



## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Good afternoon

Haldex upgrade fitted yesterday at APS, after Silverstone. If you want your TT nailed to the ground; if you want your TT to handle better than you could ever imagine, with the addition of being pushed from behind by an invisible force, fit this upgrade. This is the next best thing to do after a remap and DV. I know it's early days for me but at the moment I'm 100% happy with my choice. I'm getting 4 Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tyres fitted tomorrow as my Pirelli P6000's are on the limit. As everyone on here thinks the Pirelli P6000's are rubbish I can't wait to experience the new tyre setup. I've also fitted a very heavy Momo gear knob. The result is that when I change gear, from a certain point, the gear stick seems to have a momentum of it's own and engages the next gear with no effort at all. I believe it's called "the pendulum effect" :lol: :lol: :wink:

Joe 8)


----------



## zorg (Apr 25, 2006)

newbee here........what exactly is this?

where does it go?

what does it do?

how much?

z


----------



## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

How much?

Check car for faults, supply and fit Haldex Performance Controler, Â£499 plus vat. Total drive away price Â£586.33 at APS Brackley.

Joe


----------



## chriz1000 (Sep 17, 2005)

Or you could join the group buy if you decide quickly and get it for considerably cheaper and from an official UK supplier!


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

The Haldex upgrade is an upgrade of the AWD Haldex controller.

The standard TT setup is predominantly front wheel drive with rear wheel drive being applied very soon after the front wheels start to slip under hard acceleration.

The modification uses the throttle position as a pre-emptive trigger, to apply rear wheel drive immediately under hard acceleration, without waiting for the front wheels to slip. This provides better traction and more neutral handling with a 50:50 torque split.

Normal cruising reverts to predominantly front wheel drive.

Basically, when you put your foot down it behaves like a permanent four wheel drive system which is better for performance but when cruising it reverts to a more efficient front bias. As has been said it's rather good!

If you want this mod it's Â£499 all in for the unit delivered and is a DIY fit or you can get it fitted at little cost. BUT you've got to be quick. See this link:

http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... 787#613787


----------



## a18eem (Sep 24, 2005)

hi all ! :wink: 
i fitted my controller myself one sunday afternoon. it took approx.1.5 hours. the wires were the hardest to unplug/ remove... you only have a few inches to work in.best way is to lift the car off the ground on a ramp. i only lifted on jacks. :!: 
i got the instructions off of master waks site printed them off and took them with me under the car, they also have pictures to help!!
once fitted...... wow :twisted: put you foot down while going round a corner and..... no more understeer hello oversteer  
if you push hard, you can get the back out !
having uprated arbs also helps alot.
this is a must mod after a remap/brakes etc..
good luck you fellas and lets hear about your haldex upgrades :wink:


----------



## agenTT (May 8, 2004)

Did anyone install the competition haldex controller? Any comment?

http://hpamotorsports.com/product_drivetrain_haldex.htm


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

agenTT said:


> Did anyone install the competition haldex controller? Any comment?
> 
> http://hpamotorsports.com/product_drivetrain_haldex.htm


Having spoken to the official UK importer for all things HPA (VAGtech) I don't think that anyone in the UK has yet had one of these fitted. There have been some fitted in the US, with one customer driving to his preferred tuning house and then driving 8 hours home with it fitted through all sorts of weather - including some pretty torrential rain - and reporting that the car felt great - so it might be that HPA's warning regarding slippery use may be a little over-cautious - probably for the US market I guess - although I'm sure they would not have said it if it did not alter the handling characteristics somewhat!

I don't think VAGtech want to actively promote this product until they've had a chance to test it in the UK and therefore understand exactly how it changes the handling characteristics of the car and can therefore advise us accordingly. I think they are looking at fitting one to their demo V6 DSG TT they have just fitted the HPA single turbo kit to (it's, erm, awesome by the way...) and I'll try one out on my TT in the coming months. If people are interested I can ask them if I can post their thoughts once they've fitted one to their TT? Obviously I'll post about it on mine, but that's a couple of months away.


----------

