# Drive Shaft Popping out



## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

I have a reaccuring problem with my 225, really need some advice because the same thing happened a few months back and i spent alot of money thinking it was all fixed.

Basically it started today, as im driving sometimes when i put the car into 1st or second gear i have no drive, its like being in neutral, i think i can hear a bit of grinding coming from somewhere, and i also seem to be low on power. If i try a few times then i might get into gear, or if i switch the car off then on i would have gears working again. Like i say this exact same thing happened a few months back and i ended up replacing the clutch and its been perfect since.

Ive barely done a couple thousand miles since and i dont drive like a maniac at all. I really dont think its the clutch, dont think it was last time either, cause when i had a look at the old one it looked fine, hardly any play with the fly wheel, i guess it could be gearbox, or a differential? Any help or suggestions, anybody else experience this?


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok, my mechanic has identified the problem, the front drive shaft was coming out of its slot, il upload a pic later on. so we pushed it back into place, but it could happen again, he says he needs to have a look at it properly and find out why this is happening,.

Does anybody know a possible reason? And how the shaft sits in place, is it bolted on,? it didnt seem like it as we were just able to push it in.

what this does mean is the clutch/flywheel that i had replaced sitting in my shed is in perfect working order, :-S


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Errr yes it is bolted on or rather should be :?


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

just to illustrate; this is the part of the drive shaft coming off the transmission, 
Jamman I can see the bolts, those look fine, but where it was slotting out is right next to where the shaft meets the transmission, 
Im not all that clued up on where what is on the car... yet, but if anybody has a illustration of the details then please post


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, I would think you have a gearbox/diff prob. When you have the prob in 1st/2nd, if you tried to pull away in 3rd or 4th, do you same prob,ie no drive. 
Drive shaft appears to bolted in place, so prob look as if gearbox internals. 
Hoggy.


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

Hoggy said:


> Hi, I would think you have a gearbox/diff prob. When you have the prob in 1st/2nd, if you tried to pull away in 3rd or 4th, do you same prob,ie no drive.
> Drive shaft appears to bolted in place, so prob look as if gearbox internals.
> Hoggy.


Thanks for the response Hoggy, just to note i took that picture after we pushed the shaft back into place,
To answer your question, Yes I think the problem remains in all gears once it starts to happen, does that signify anything else to you?

I think it might be the Diff too actually, tell you why, when i was having the clutch replaced i remember the mechanic pointed out something about the Diff, I thought when he put it back together he had sorted it out, here is a photo i took when they were replacing my clutch, is that the Diff on the right? shouldn't the metal spoke not meant to be straight??


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi Greyhound, I have no pics of gearbox/transmission internals, but if drive shaft can be pushed back into place then something is missing internally, circlip or similar. I know very little about TT gear box/transmission, but would require gearbox/transmission strip down to confirm.
Hoggy.


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

Hoggy your replies are usefull even when you say you know little about the gearbox, so thanks alot, 

Yeah im going to have to get the guys at my garage to have a good inspection of the parts [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## antcole (Apr 4, 2009)

As Hoggy says, there should be a circlip in behind the drive flange, if this has dropped off or become detached, then the shaft would come out of its spline and you would get no drive to that wheel.
Due to the diff and its physics, all of the drive would be lost because it needs both shafts to allow transmission and id say whats happening is you then have only the rear haldex providing power which could explain the loss of power or acceleration etc.
The haldex provides less drive than the front wheels i believe.... could be wrong.... probably am... (are/am.... watch out, the grammar police will be after me!)

Anyway, heres a pic of the components.
I have the part numbers if needed.


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

antcole said:


> id say whats happening is you then have only the rear haldex providing power which could explain the loss of power or acceleration etc.[/img]


Man i think you just hit the nail on the head with the power loss, because i noticed before we put the shaft back into place and got power back i let the mechanic drive the car while i was out, the surface was all slippery and noticed the back wheels spin and front wheels did nada!,

You guys are genius, and im frikking hawk eye :-D

So where is this clip in the illustration?

Cheers fellaz


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## ades tt 180 (Jun 19, 2011)

Dont know about tt's but on every other drive shaft there is a circlip holding it in. Is there a groove going all the way round on the spline that goes in the gearbox?... Thats where the circlip should be...it looks like a circular piece of wire.


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

ades tt 180 said:


> Dont know about tt's but on every other drive shaft there is a circlip holding it in. Is there a groove going all the way round on the spline that goes in the gearbox?... Thats where the circlip should be...it looks like a circular piece of wire.


Yep, i know what it is now, these clips cost about 20p, instead my mechanic got me to buy a new clutch last time, ffs!,


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## antcole (Apr 4, 2009)

Hello mate, the circlip part is item 9 in the drawing, you might need item 8 also if you dismantle the actual drive flange.
Item 7 seems to be a washer that goes between the drive flange and the circlip/securing ring... but it doesnt have a part number sadly.

(Item - 8 ) 8D0 407 309 sealing washer 90MM approximately 3 quid each
(Item - 9 ) N 012 374 1 securing ring 28X1,5 approximately 1 quid each

All that for under a fiver! 

Hope thats useful my mate.


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

Thanks alot Antcole, getting the car seen today, mechanic will be well impressed when i give him the part numbers as well


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

So mechanics had a look, they admitted they really dont know much about the workings of the differential etc, so im probably not in the best of hands, we took the drive shaft out, Mechanics don't really know why it comes out of its place, or if anything is missing...I dont even understand how its being kept in place.









wonder if any of you can look at that photo of the inner drive shaft and tell me if anything is missing? or how its kept in place? because it just slots in with a bit of force.

the schematics posted here dont show the inner shaft, so any illustrations of this would also be alot of help

right now we put it back but after having driven it a mile i can tell its popped out again and im massively under powered and very un reliable car at the moment, not good :-(


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

Ive read about a C-Clip holding the shaft into place, where is that on my drive shaft..no idea..


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

I found this image which is i think the rear differential, i see a CirClip (no 10) possibly this missing on the front, just thinking out loud


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi Greyhound, Dending on whether you have an inner CV or a triple roller joint, the circlip will either be 16 or 11 
Click on pic to make it bigger.










Hoggy.


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

Thanks Hoggy, but i dont think thats the illustration i need, it is offcourse the drive shaft but there is another flanged shaft quiet a substantial which bolts onto the drive shaft and into the differential,

this here


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## merlin c (Jan 25, 2012)

greyhound said:


> So mechanics had a look, they admitted they really dont know much about the workings of the differential etc, so im probably not in the best of hands, we took the drive shaft out, Mechanics don't really know why it comes out of its place, or if anything is missing...I dont even understand how its being kept in place.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I cannot see the Circlip location ring, has part of the spline sheared off inside diff???


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

merlin c said:


> greyhound said:
> 
> 
> > So mechanics had a look, they admitted they really dont know much about the workings of the differential etc, so im probably not in the best of hands, we took the drive shaft out, Mechanics don't really know why it comes out of its place, or if anything is missing...I dont even understand how its being kept in place.
> ...


i would have thought there would be a circular grove on the teeth of the spline too, certainly didnt look like anything had broken off. I do wonder how drive could be transferred through such short teeth, do you know what i mean?


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## merlin c (Jan 25, 2012)

greyhound said:


> merlin c said:
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> > greyhound said:
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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

?


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## merlin c (Jan 25, 2012)

greyhound said:


> ?


F**k knows where my reply went, try again....
The groove machined in for the Circlip was probably at 90 degrees to the shaft causing a right angle which then creates a stress point, if this has slowly fatigued then you would have a uniform clear shear break but there should be a colour difference on the end of the shaft showing old fatigue compared to the final section that sheared off, any pics of the end of the shaft please.


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

merlin c said:


> greyhound said:
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> > ?
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yeah something strange was happening with the forum, had to re-link pics, anyway..
No other pics of the shaft im afraid. If what you are saying is right then situation its pretty bad, cant even be sure if the differential is OK, could have shredded metal in there :S


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## ades tt 180 (Jun 19, 2011)

greyhound said:


> Thanks Hoggy, but i dont think thats the illustration i need, it is offcourse the drive shaft but there is another flanged shaft quiet a substantial which bolts onto the drive shaft and into the differential,
> 
> this here


Im wondering if the slotted ring in the middle of the shaft has closed up?... Have you tried opening the ends up a bit and pushing it back in?... It might stop it coming out again.


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

ades tt 180 said:


> greyhound said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Hoggy, but i dont think thats the illustration i need, it is offcourse the drive shaft but there is another flanged shaft quiet a substantial which bolts onto the drive shaft and into the differential,
> ...


Hey Ades, where abouts do you mean mate,?


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## merlin c (Jan 25, 2012)

Good spot Ades, if it goes in that far??


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

You dont mean this do you? cant dont anything to that


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## merlin c (Jan 25, 2012)

Yes, looks like a non return clip, compresses flat when pushed into a hole then spring slightly open the other side of the hole to clamp it in place....


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

I see what you mean now, but i doubt it, they were welded to the shaft, but maybe a clip is meant to go behind it?










Really appreciate the help so far guys, someone here must have pulled one of these apart before and knows whether mine looks damaged  Come on lads!!


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## chrissy1502002 (Dec 25, 2011)

So the bolted end of the shaft seems to pull out of the diff housing? If so there will be a circlip inside the differential housing which is broken/worn and that will be the cause.

If this is the case it will be amatter of taking the diff apart i would of thought and replacing the circlip


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

chrissy1502002 said:


> So the bolted end of the shaft seems to pull out of the diff housing? If so there will be a circlip inside the differential housing which is broken/worn and that will be the cause.
> 
> If this is the case it will be amatter of taking the diff apart i would of thought and replacing the circlip


Ok, thats possible, but i still dont know where the circlip fits, as you can see from the inner shaft there seems to be no groove, or does the clip go on some other way?

cheers


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

Ive had a forum member who has experienced a similar issue PM me, in his case it was infact worn wishbone bushes with excessive play when going over potholes causing his drive shaft to come out. I did a bit of googling and came across a few people posting similar issues, i thought this was particularly interesting 
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=171007

the thread title is "Can lowering your car cause your driveshaft to "POP OUT"???"

I immidiately thought, well my car is lowered i know that puts more stress on the cars parts, and i thought actually this all started to happen soon after i lowered my car a few months ago and i ended up thinking it was my clutch when it wasnt..

tell me what you think guys, ive just spent the last 4 hours reading the whole of the internet of similar issues, but i really think lower TT with worn Wishbone bushes may be resulting in the drive shaft coming out of its place.


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## steveupton (Mar 23, 2010)

Would suggest you check engine alignment as this costs nothing and is easy to do and if not aligned correctly, can cause the problem you're getting. Here's how to do it:-


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

steveupton said:


> Would suggest you check engine alignment as this costs nothing and is easy to do and if not aligned correctly, can cause the problem you're getting. Here's how to do it:-


thanks Steve, going to check it out tonight, but it sounds like its most likely to be this:
a c-clip is apparantely missing or worn, (thanks Kprincess) 
still not 100%sure but most likely


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

Greyhound...

I presume this



greyhound said:


>


Is the shaft that goes through the middle of the transfer box thats then attached to the gearbox?

Are you aware that there is a bolt that goes right through the centre of this shaft that holds it in place?


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

L33JSA said:


> Greyhound...
> 
> I presume this
> 
> ...


OMG, there was no such bolt!!


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

greyhound said:


> OMG, there was no such bolt!!


There's your issue then mate....

Who did your clutch last? Think I'd be having words with them!!!


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

L33JSA said:


> greyhound said:
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> > OMG, there was no such bolt!!
> ...


Well the clutch was replaced because i was having this problem in the first place, lol, i cant believe how such a vital piece was missed. I always thought how could a drive shaft be held in place with just a clip, jeesus!!


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

And thanks so much L33JSA, this is why this forum is invaluable, funnily enough i was thinking of PMíng you because i knew youd done alot of work on your car yourself,


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

do you know what that bold might be called, just going to get to audi parts for it...?


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

greyhound said:


> L33JSA said:
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So whichever garage it was in before the one that did the latest clutch swap is to blame then.

That said, if the the current garage that has just done the latest clutch swap was worth their salt they should have picked up on it when it was disassembled and/or when it was re-assembled.


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

greyhound said:


> do you know what that bold might be called, just going to get to audi parts for it...?


I'll see if I can find a part number....gimme 5 mins


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

greyhound said:


> And thanks so much L33JSA, this is why this forum is invaluable, funnily enough i was thinking of PMíng you because i knew youd done alot of work on your car yourself,


No worries mate.

Part number - 097409359


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## merlin c (Jan 25, 2012)

L33JSA said:


> greyhound said:
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> > OMG, there was no such bolt!!
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Brilliant spot, well done.... [smiley=idea.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

L33JSA said:


> greyhound said:
> 
> 
> > And thanks so much L33JSA, this is why this forum is invaluable, funnily enough i was thinking of PMíng you because i knew youd done alot of work on your car yourself,
> ...


thats fantastic, just ordered it, pick it up tomorrow,

(ps how do you find part numbers, bentley manual? must get one myself asap)


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

greyhound said:


> L33JSA said:
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You can only use extensions/tools as shown in the picture to fit it mate - anything wider than the width of a 10mm 1/4" socket won't go down.

Get on - www.vagcat.com


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

im on it 
Im going to march into the garage holding the bolt high up in the air like its the key to open all the worldly treasures, god rays shining down, birds singing. Then i will tell them about the power of the forum


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## merlin c (Jan 25, 2012)

greyhound said:


> im on it
> Im going to march into the garage holding the bolt high up in the air like its the key to open all the worldly treasures, god rays shining down, birds singing. Then i will tell them about the power of the forum


 :lol: :lol: Good on ya Greyhound [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

> So whichever garage it was in before the one that did the latest clutch swap is to blame then.
> 
> That said, if the the current garage that has just done the latest clutch swap was worth their salt they should have picked up on it when it was disassembled and/or when it was re-assembled.


No comment on my garage :S lets just say they have not been good, but i keep going back because i know them


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Good spot Lee


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

jamman said:


> Good spot Lee


aint it just! he's even gone as far as taken his car apart Just to take these pics for me, :lol: what a geezza!!



>


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

greyhound said:


> No comment on my garage :S lets just say they have not been good, but i keep going back because i know them


......well that's a valid reason to use them isnt it.......I mean that easily makes up for the fact that they changed a clutch for you for absolutely no reason probably costing you hundreds of pounds, not to mention the other numerous times its been back in to try and find the fault. :roll:

Time to find a different garage mate......how you can still in faith in a garage like that after something like this is beyond me.



jamman said:


> Good spot Lee


Bent Rod Motorsport don't miss a trick lol 



greyhound said:


> aint it just! he's even gone as far as taken his car apart Just to take these pics for me, :lol: what a geezza!!


Lol...these were taken last time I did a TT clutch.


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

L33JSA said:


> greyhound said:
> 
> 
> > No comment on my garage :S lets just say they have not been good, but i keep going back because i know them
> ...


youre right i know they are not very good in that way, but they let me stick around while they do their work, i can get stuck in if i want, no health and safety BS, I learn just from standing under the car and watching. 
When i first got my car i went to a very well known reputable garage where im sat in a coffee room while they are servicing my car somewhere, no good to me! I want to be in there learning as much as i can. I enjoy it, and now that i know my garage dont know squat about my car, it just leaves me (help of the internet and you guys) to diagnose any problem and all theyve got to do is fit the parts, and they are good at that, and to be fair to them they havent charged me for the couple of times my car has had the shaft out,

in any case the bolt was missing from the car before I had it, so its surely not the only ignorant garage

so there is my weak justification..


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## merlin c (Jan 25, 2012)

greyhound said:


> L33JSA said:
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> > greyhound said:
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If that bolt is not a standard design on drive shafts then I can see how the missing part would not register with the mechanic unless he has done one before, so I agree with your view that is was basically an easy mistake to make due to unfamiliarity with the car. All sorted now though... 8)


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

greyhound said:


> youre right i know they are not very good in that way, but they let me stick around while they do their work, i can get stuck in if i want, no health and safety BS, I learn just from standing under the car and watching.
> When i first got my car i went to a very well known reputable garage where im sat in a coffee room while they are servicing my car somewhere, no good to me! I want to be in there learning as much as i can. I enjoy it, and now that i know my garage dont know squat about my car, it just leaves me (help of the internet and you guys) to diagnose any problem and all theyve got to do is fit the parts, and they are good at that, and to be fair to them they havent charged me for the couple of times my car has had the shaft out,
> 
> in any case the bolt was missing from the car before I had it, so its surely not the only ignorant garage
> ...


Don't think you're going to learn much from them when they are making mistakes like that!! But you are right about it not being the only ignorant....or rather incompetant garage. Hence why I do all my work myself except MOTs which my friend does who I trust.

The internet is all very well and good for diagnosing problems......but look what happened last time. You diagnosed the issue as being the clutch (probably off some advise from others on the internet), it turned out it wasnt the clutch, yet you gave this garage the clutch to change and not only did they fail to spot the actual issue, they incorrectly fitted the clutch and probably charged you for the privilage.

If that was my garage, I'd be embarrassed and would look to give you at least some if not all of the labour back again.

That's like going into the doctors and saying 'I think my liver's on its way out....needs changing', they then take your word for it & give you a transplant which you don't need as it only turns out to be a water infection! lol



merlin c said:


> If that bolt is not a standard design on drive shafts then I can see how the missing part would not register with the mechanic unless he has done one before, so I agree with your view that is was basically an easy mistake to make due to unfamiliarity with the car. All sorted now though... 8)


Sorry Merlin, but I completely disagree with this.

The bolt that was missing came out of the transfer box shaft - the only way that this is related to the driveshaft is that the driveshaft directly bolts to it. The driveshaft hasnt been stripped or disassembled in anyway.

If they hadn't done one before or weren't confident in taking on the job then they should have refused it. There's no way any decent garage, no matter if they hadnt done it before or not should be making mistakes like this. They should have access to plenty of technical resources such as manuals, autodata etc to enable them to complete any job on a car properly and accurately.

Just because they havent done the job before is no excuse why its 'ok' to mess it up.

What astounds me is that the first garage that changed the clutch will have had this bolt left over after doing the job so how on earth they missed it is beyond me.


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## cookbot (Apr 19, 2011)

It's a shame I didn't read this thread the day you posted as the exact same thing happened to me, but found it was the missing bolt after a good look through etka!


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

cookbot said:


> It's a shame I didn't read this thread the day you posted as the exact same thing happened to me, but found it was the missing bolt after a good look through etka!


Incompetant garages everywhere it would seem....


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## cookbot (Apr 19, 2011)

Hey, silver lining. At least you got a transmission oil change! :lol:


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Well done to the person who solved the problem [smiley=cheers.gif]


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

cookbot said:


> Hey, silver lining. At least you got a transmission oil change! :lol:


Providing they remembered to put it in.....


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## cookbot (Apr 19, 2011)

L33JSA said:


> cookbot said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, silver lining. At least you got a transmission oil change! :lol:
> ...


Haha, those bearing won't last long if they don't!


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

> fact that they changed a clutch for you for absolutely no reason probably costing you hundreds of pounds,


Probably didn't change the clutch. Probably sat on the crapper for an hour flicking through Readers Wives and then came back out and invoiced you for a new clutch and sent you on your way  The bolt utilised as a bog roll holder


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## merlin c (Jan 25, 2012)

merlin c said:


> If that bolt is not a standard design on drive shafts then I can see how the missing part would not register with the mechanic unless he has done one before, so I agree with your view that is was basically an easy mistake to make due to unfamiliarity with the car. All sorted now though... 8)





> Sorry Merlin, but I completely disagree with this.


I am just stating how I can see it was an easy mistake to make, I agree it should not have happened but just that I can see how it happened, understanding a mistake is not condoning it, its more to do with empathy but you are right in that they're set up should be more professional. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

E3 YOB said:


> > fact that they changed a clutch for you for absolutely no reason probably costing you hundreds of pounds,
> 
> 
> Probably didn't change the clutch. Probably sat on the crapper for an hour flicking through Readers Wives and then came back out and invoiced you for a new clutch and sent you on your way  The bolt utilised as a bog roll holder


Haha, No thats not true, i was there when they put the new clutch in, I actually still have the old one, might sell it to a forum member actually or ebay it, get some of that hard earnt cash back!!


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

cookbot said:


> L33JSA said:
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> > cookbot said:
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Dont scare me now!


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

greyhound said:


> I actually still have the old one, might sell it to a forum member actually or ebay it, get some of that hard earnt cash back!!


How many miles had it done, did you change DMF at the same time?


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

L33JSA said:


> greyhound said:
> 
> 
> > I actually still have the old one, might sell it to a forum member actually or ebay it, get some of that hard earnt cash back!!
> ...


Hi Lee, i think its only done 5-10k on the clutch, yeah the whole DMF, its going to a forum member for fraction of the price for the whole kit new,

so here is the screw/bolt, can you tell if this is it? i dont see any reason why it wouldnt be, looks about right, 
does it need a washer or anything else?








thanks again


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

L33JSA said:


>





greyhound said:


> so here is the screw/bolt, can you tell if this is it? i dont see any reason why it wouldnt be, looks about right, does it need a washer or anything else?


I'd say it looks pretty damn similar to me mate  No washer or anything else needed.



greyhound said:


> i think its only done about 5k on the clutch, yeah the whole DMF.


So you've got a clutch & DMF thats only done roughly 5k? How much do you want for the DMF? Any proof of when it was purchased?


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

L33JSA said:


> L33JSA said:
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sorry mate, ive already agreed to sell the whole kit it to a local TTforum member.

Yea, i see the screw on your photo, some blaady screw, thanks again Lee!


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