# RS4 Clutch



## scott-tt225

Guys.

Do any RS4 owners have an experience of clutch faliure in the new RS4??

After some fun the other day with a Gallardo the clutch simply exploded on the RS4 after some hard driving, mainly 3rd upwards, no launching at all. The flywheel is now blue, the clutch plate is literally in pieces but the pressure plate is ok???

I suspect poor design as the clutch is very small with a DMF. I experienced soggy pedal, lots of slippage and that was it, all over!

Any comments? Audi wil not honour under warranty??

Thanks


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## Major Audi Parts Guru

If the flywheel is now blue then that is an indication that the clutch has been over cooked well and truly, especially if you've experienced a soggy pedal, and unfortunately this is only as a result of subjecting the clutch to conditions that it was not designed for. Subsequently a completely new clutch and flywheel will now have to be fitted

Having said that, this is the first time that I've heard of a clutch failure on an RS4 :?


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## caney

millteks RS4's clutch went at inters last year iirc?


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## Major Audi Parts Guru

caney said:


> millteks RS4's clutch went at inters last year iirc?


Doing what exactly?


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## shao_khan

I was talkign to Wayside MK, and sales gal told me to steer clear of used RS4 at the moment as they were having a few reports of clutch problems, so this indicates its not a rare thing.


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## sandhua1978

A friend of mine who had an RS4 just got rid of it as his clutch went 3 times. Not sure if it was all covered under warranty or not.

He really didn't like the way it drank petrol also... said it was like an alcoholic.. which was very surprising as his other car is at GT3 RS!.


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## W7 PMC

B5 or B7??

Have heard of this on the B5 & TBH have heard of one going pop on a B7. I think the B7 clutch was replaced under warranty IIRC.


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## sandhua1978

The one i was talking about was a b7.


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## W7 PMC

sandhua1978 said:


> The one i was talking about was a b7.


Ouch, hope it was under warranty.

Not had any issues with my clutch yet after 5500 miles. That said, early B7 RS4's had cold running issues that were updated & fixed on later cars, so perhaps this could have caused clutch issues.


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## sandhua1978

W7 PMC said:


> sandhua1978 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The one i was talking about was a b7.
> 
> 
> 
> Ouch, hope it was under warranty.
> 
> Not had any issues with my clutch yet after 5500 miles. That said, early B7 RS4's had cold running issues that were updated & fixed on later cars, so perhaps this could have caused clutch issues.
Click to expand...

Not sure, didn't get the full details off him he just told that he just decided to get rid of it. Reckons it was one the worst cars he has had in terms of running costs and deprecition. Found it strange reckonend he lost nearly Â£24k on it in the space of a year. 

Sounds a bit too much just for depreciation but who knows?


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## scott-tt225

All is now sorted.

After much deliberation with the dealer and Audi UK the clutch replacement was heavily discounted.

Total cost Â£22.41

Reading posts on RS246.com it seems that the hydraulic clutch lines are too small. It seems that under hard use at high revs and fast gear changes the clutch releases slowly and causes teh clutch to slip, this builds up heat and boils the clutch fluid.

That is why I experienced soggy clutch and had a disaster.

Thanks for all responses.


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## 55JWB

scott-tt225 said:


> All is now sorted.
> 
> After much deliberation with the dealer and Audi UK the clutch replacement was heavily discounted.
> 
> Total cost Â£22.41
> 
> Reading posts on RS246.com it seems that the hydraulic clutch lines are too small. It seems that under hard use at high revs and fast gear changes the clutch releases slowly and causes teh clutch to slip, this builds up heat and boils the clutch fluid.
> 
> That is why I experienced soggy clutch and had a disaster.
> 
> Thanks for all responses.


I have had this slip issue with mine already... I changed gear quickly 1st to 2nd and floored it and it felt like all the power had gone, lifted and tried again and it was obvious clutch slip... I have one friend who has had a new clutch, car not done many miles around 6K did one track day and that was it, clutch gone... 

Jason


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## W7 PMC

55JWB said:


> scott-tt225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> All is now sorted.
> 
> After much deliberation with the dealer and Audi UK the clutch replacement was heavily discounted.
> 
> Total cost Â£22.41
> 
> Reading posts on RS246.com it seems that the hydraulic clutch lines are too small. It seems that under hard use at high revs and fast gear changes the clutch releases slowly and causes teh clutch to slip, this builds up heat and boils the clutch fluid.
> 
> That is why I experienced soggy clutch and had a disaster.
> 
> Thanks for all responses.
> 
> 
> 
> I have had this slip issue with mine already... I changed gear quickly 1st to 2nd and floored it and it felt like all the power had gone, lifted and tried again and it was obvious clutch slip... I have one friend who has had a new clutch, car not done many miles around 6K did one track day and that was it, clutch gone...
> 
> Jason
Click to expand...

I'd better take some spare clutches to Germany then 

I'm at 5500miles & had no problems yet with the clutch (fingers crossed). Anyone know or can find out if it's a detectable failure?? as i intend to have an oil change bfore leaving for The Ring & wondered if a dealer could spot heavy wear on a clutch so could get mine replaced if required before i go.


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## Love_iTT

55JWB said:


> I have had this slip issue with mine already... I changed gear quickly 1st to 2nd and floored it and it felt like all the power had gone, lifted and tried again and it was obvious clutch slip... I have one friend who has had a new clutch, car not done many miles around 6K did one track day and that was it, clutch gone...
> 
> Jason


Jason,
I had exactly the same thing happen to me on Wednesday, really bad smell of burning clutch plates too. I phoned my dealer straight away and they are logging this with Audi and will be getting back to me, if I haven't heard anything by end of business Monday then I will contact them and CS as well. I want this logged at CS just in case something happens later on and they can't come back to me with "wear and tear on the clutch sir" thingy. The car has just done a tad over 2000 miles.

Graham


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## scott-tt225

I have just done a long ish trip today.

For some reason in high gears, the clutch pedal is very slow at returning back up once is has been pressed??? This is still causing the clutch to slip on fast hard gear changes.......

The car stinks of clutch still.

If you report clutch slip the dealer will investigate by stripping I supose and may well replace the clutch.

I would advise not to launch at all, my mate did it in his saloon, 3 times clutch fucked and flyweel now blue!

there is a massive design issue with the clutch on the RS4, is is a poor DMF design, not much bigger than the TT clutch, it just cant cope with the torque!!!


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## Wondermikie

Not good. What speeds was your mate launching through to, was it like 0-100 blasts or something?


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## scoTTy

Weird as I've got more torque than an RS4 and I've not had any issues.

I've now done 35k miles including a day at Santa Pod and a few 'ring trips.


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## W7 PMC

scott-tt225 said:


> I have just done a long ish trip today.
> 
> For some reason in high gears, the clutch pedal is very slow at returning back up once is has been pressed??? This is still causing the clutch to slip on fast hard gear changes.......
> 
> The car stinks of clutch still.
> 
> If you report clutch slip the dealer will investigate by stripping I supose and may well replace the clutch.
> 
> I would advise not to launch at all, my mate did it in his saloon, 3 times clutch fucked and flyweel now blue!
> 
> there is a massive design issue with the clutch on the RS4, is is a poor DMF design, not much bigger than the TT clutch, it just cant cope with the torque!!!


Perhaps it's just earlier cars, as i've had no clutch issues today & performed quite a few rapid pull aways, although no drag strips. A bit worried about ragging it round The Ring, if clutches are week, but i've got the car booked in for an oil change & complete check up before i leave, so i've asked them to also if possible have a look at the clutch for signs of wear etc.

As Paul kinda says, the RS4 is not a high torque car as it's N/A (can't see how an S4 has more torque than an RS4 but perhaps it's true :wink: ), so i doubt it's a torque issue with the RS4 clutch.


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## scoTTy

W7 PMC said:


> As Paul kinda says, the RS4 is not a high torque car as it's N/A (can't see how an S4 has more torque than an RS4 but perhaps it's true :wink: ), so i doubt it's a torque issue with the RS4 clutch.


You've only got more bhp than me coz it's calculated from rpm and your's revs higher :wink:

It is strange that people are having this. We all heard about the delays with the RS4 due to heat. You would have thought in that time and all the testing before (and also as the Audi Driving Experience days) they'd have found something.

Quite a worry :?


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## W7 PMC

scoTTy said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Paul kinda says, the RS4 is not a high torque car as it's N/A (can't see how an S4 has more torque than an RS4 but perhaps it's true :wink: ), so i doubt it's a torque issue with the RS4 clutch.
> 
> 
> 
> You've only got more bhp than me coz it's calculated from rpm and your's revs higher :wink:
> 
> It is strange that people are having this. We all heard about the delays with the RS4 due to heat. You would have thought in that time and all the testing before (and also as the Audi Driving Experience days) they'd have found something.
> 
> Quite a worry :?
Click to expand...

Tis a bit of a worry, but i'm leaning towards this being a problem on early RS4's.

Ps. Peak BHP is at a low enough level for the S4 to achieve & a good few RPM away from the 8250 maximum :wink: Tis a tad more than just the max RPM level that allows the RS4 the 70BHP higher output :lol: , perhaps the fact it's a totally re-worked engine might have something to do with it, or perhaps the FSi :wink: Out of curiosity, what is the peak torque on an S4 & where along the rev range is it available??


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## Love_iTT

Well, since wednesdays episode with mine, I've been trying all the combinations possible to replicate what happened to mine and nothing - zippo. I've changed up, down, slowly, ragging and normal and nothing happened at all, I really don't understand what happened.

The only conclusion I can come up with is that if there is any electronic sensors involved with the clutch system ie, knowing where the clutch is in relation to the throttle speed then it may have confused itself for that for a split second.

Whatever it was it seems to be fine now and I feel comfortable again with it and not undulely concerned, having said that, I still want the dealer to give it a thorough check just incase, it may have thrown up some sort of fault code but as I haven't got VAGcom then I can't tell but the dealer should be able to find it if it's there.

In the meantime - I'm just loving it and can't stop driving it, it's an awesome piece of kit  

Graham


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## scott-tt225

I think that the RS4 has a different clutch set-up to the S4.

The RS4 appears to have some form of launch control, the revs pulse when launching from the line.

I think the problem that I had was pulling off fast, this gets the flywheel very hot. Followed by maybe 30-40 hard fast gearchanges up and down the fly and clutch got that hot that it just disintegrated.

I think that the heat caused the clutch fluid to get hot and even boil which in turn caused the clutch to release slowly and slip. That and the combination of a cold meant I didnt smell burning clutch so carried on thrashing. Lol.

All is now well and this is very much cab weather! Glasd ytou are enjoying it Love iTT!!!


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## scott-tt225

Its now back in the dealers.

The car will not select any gear when the engine is running, however will select gears when the engine is off.

I suspect something has been put back together wrong. I will be massivley dissapointed if the same has happened again as the car has not been driven hard. Infact my old dears were driving when the problem occured.

Keep you updated.


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## garyc

erm, aren't these cars built to be driven hard?

I ran a B5 RS4 (that also had more torque than the B7 :wink: ) which I drove hard, including a few full bore launches. That what it was designed for; that is how you get the quoted spectacular 0-60 times; and that is the duty cycle it should stand up to.

I had no problems, although of course the 4wd train has to absorb a tremendous amount of energy - the B5 would allow rears to spin momentarily. Powerful Rwd cars like M3 simply spin away excess energy.

A mate is just ordering a new RS4 ex Audi UK demo car (his mate is Product Manager at AUK). On asking about abused cars etc, he was told that AUK have history of all cars on fleet (trace logs etc) so they know which ones have been caned as opposed to merely thrashed. 

Grahams approach is right one - get 'concern' registered with Audi CS asap. Then drive car as intended and kick AUK if there is any later problems.

I don't think there is a typical life in a clutch - there are far too many variables. But failing or slipping at less than 10K miles is absurd.

Hope Audi CS resolve issues. I am sure they will not want to damage the superb reputation that the B7 has brought them in their battle against BMW M division.


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## brittan

I've just done the Audi Driving EXperience and the one instruction/warning that was repeated many times whilst we were driving the RS4s was "Be careful with the clutch". The warning included NOT accelerating until the clutch was fully engaged. Makes you think. . . . .


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## W7 PMC

VicTT said:


> I've just done the Audi Driving EXperience and the one instruction/warning that was repeated many times whilst we were driving the RS4s was "Be careful with the clutch". The warning included NOT accelerating until the clutch was fully engaged. Makes you think. . . . .


Good warning, but that's driving 101 surely in any manual??

Any clutch would burn up if you keep the throttle buried whilst changing gear in a manual or am i missing something??


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## Love_iTT

I heard back (via the dealer) today what Audi CS had to say and that is to cut a long story short - forget it! Driver error :twisted:

However, to be fair, the dealer did assure me that they have got this as an open job and have logged everything and told me (without me prompting them) that if anything does happen such as a premature worn clutch then this incident will be taken into consideration.

To be honest, I don't think anything will happen, I'm sure that this is a one off - for whatever reason - as I said in my previous post, when I tried replicating it then I got nothing so until such times that this may happen again then I'm just going to forget about it and enjoy the 'spirited' driving that this car was made for.

If it can't take it then it's 'Not fit for purpose' as far as I'm concerned. It's got a lap counter as standard for Christ sake so I'm sure Audi can't expect us to poodle around like Volvo drivers - can they? :roll:

Graham


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## garyc

W7 PMC said:


> VicTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've just done the Audi Driving EXperience and the one instruction/warning that was repeated many times whilst we were driving the RS4s was "Be careful with the clutch". The warning included NOT accelerating until the clutch was fully engaged. Makes you think. . . . .
> 
> 
> 
> Good warning, but that's driving 101 surely in any manual??
> 
> Any clutch would burn up if you keep the throttle buried whilst changing gear in a manual or am i missing something??
Click to expand...

I think the inference is that a quick dump is better (easier on the clutch) than a slow release from a standing start - if you get my drift.


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## Love_iTT

garyc said:


> ...that a quick dump is better (easier on the clutch) than a slow release from a standing start - if you get my drift.


Cor blimey Gary, I've just had my dinner. :wink:

Grahm


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## W7 PMC

garyc said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VicTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've just done the Audi Driving EXperience and the one instruction/warning that was repeated many times whilst we were driving the RS4s was "Be careful with the clutch". The warning included NOT accelerating until the clutch was fully engaged. Makes you think. . . . .
> 
> 
> 
> Good warning, but that's driving 101 surely in any manual??
> 
> Any clutch would burn up if you keep the throttle buried whilst changing gear in a manual or am i missing something??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think the inference is that a quick dump is better (easier on the clutch) than a slow release from a standing start - if you get my drift.
Click to expand...

Clear as murky pond water now :lol:

I think i know what you mean. Fast gearchanges are OK, but drag strips & traffic light GP's are a no no??


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## scott-tt225

The latest news is.......

We dont know what is wrong with it!

The release bearing has fallen appart anf the pressure plate has turned a funny blue colour sir..... we has sent a report to Audi technical????

Whats going to happen next???


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## scott-tt225

Still no news as to what the fault is?

Surely if the release bearing has collapsed and the pressure plate is burned something has gone back together wrong?

Anybody got any views?

Audi are gunna get a rocketing tomorrow as they have not returned my call today!

Thanks


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## nigelmcg

Hi Guys

Was reading your posts and decided to register as I have an RS4 that I bought brand new in January this year and it has just had a clutch failure at only 4,000 miles

Took my mate for a run to show him what my new car was like and after only a few minutes of driving the clutch pedal stayed stuck to the floor...!!!

No standing starts, no clutch slip or smell of burnt clutch, no noise even when it failed.

I pulled the pedal back up with my hand and it would select gears but when you tried to let the clutch out it just made metal grinding noises as if it wasn't engaging properly.

Car had to be recovered....

Audi dealers mechanic after only a quick look at the car diagnosed that it was most likely a burnt out clutch.

The service department told me that I needed to be aware of the fact that I might be liable for the repairs and that I must understand this before they would proceed to start stripping the car.

Audi dealer has had the car for 7 days now and today their service department didnt even return my calls(2) for a progress report on how they were getting on, as of Friday last week they hadnt even looked at it and it was still sitting in their workshop car park....

Audi Roadside very kindly provided me with a car but only for 48 hours, just before it was took away I asked the dealer for a courtesy car, it took them two days to get me one and I had to go and pick it up (had to use a company van to get to and from work during the 2 days I was without a car).

Not happy my car is broken and disappointed with my local dealers handling of the problem and their ongoing bad service..!!!

One of the Audi car sales men told me that they had seen an RS4 in before with less than 1,000 miles that had also needed a clutch....

Makes you wonder.....Is a standard RS4 clutch strong enough for 414 hp ?


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## scott-tt225

The clutch has again been replaced under warranty. But now there is a mis-fire and the car needs a visit to the bodyshop I am informed.....

Also one of the hydraulic lines has been replaced, I am sure this is why the cluutch has burned out, the clutch releases too slowly causing slippage in high gears which causes instand faliure.

You should get atleast a 70% Audi AG contribution, but with some pressure to Audi CS you will get 100% or near that towards repair.

Good luck.


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## Wondermikie

nigelmcg said:


> ...Makes you wonder.....Is a standard RS4 clutch strong enough for 414 hp ?...


It doesn't sound like it, does it? Shocking story really, hope you get it all sorted under warranty.


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## scott-tt225

Still not had the car back......

Went in yesterday and collected the TT as the power steering pump went. The RS4 has another new clutch and flywheel assembly. They ahve also replaced the hydraulic clutch line that they claimed they new nothing about when first mentioned by me when we argued about paying for the repairs. It seems that Audi know thre isa problem but are keeping it very quiet......

Latest news... the car still has a misfire sir, we have removed the engine as we fear that threre is a loom trapped at the back and it needs to be released. It has taken me 3 days to get the engine out!

Just want the car back now....


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## W7 PMC

Watching this thread closely Scott & sorry to hear of your continuing woes. More so now it appears another owners clutch has gone pop.

To make a point on his situation, you should not pay a penny towards the repair/replace of a clutch on any car that's only 6mths old & has clocked 4000 miles. Make some noise & i assure you Audi will foot the entire bill (assuming you don't drag strip the car every weekend :lol: ).

I've still got no issues with mine & the car is running perfectly (even better now it has a Milltek 8) ). Not tracked the car yet, but doing VMAX on Sunday which will involve some very fast standing starts, so fingers crossed that this aint an RS4 wide problem.


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## TTwiggy

I'm sure it's crossed your mind Paul, but IF there is a problem with the RS4 clutch and IF it did fail at VMAX and IF the car had to be collected, might it leave you with a difficult scenario to argue for compo, if the recovery report states 'customer's car recovered from a top speed testing event on a drag strip'... :?


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## ANT

No problems yet!
ANT


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## scoTTy

TTwiggy said:


> I'm sure it's crossed your mind Paul, but IF there is a problem with the RS4 clutch and IF it did fail at VMAX and IF the car had to be collected, might it leave you with a difficult scenario to argue for compo, if the recovery report states 'customer's car recovered from a top speed testing event on a drag strip'... :?


As far as I'm aware there's nothing in any purchase document that says you can't...or is there?

I had a shaft pop out at Prodrive and got collected (from outside the gate). No one said a word and why should they. It wouldn't do their reputation as a producer of expensive performance cars any good if they said be gentle with them. :?


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## scott-tt225

Thanks for the support guys.....

Just to make it clear, the firts clutch was replaced with a 70% contribution by AG and Â£500 by Audi UK, the remainder Â£20 is was my responsibility but I havnt paid that....

The clutch then failed again, a couple of days later whilst my dad was driving. In fairness, I had given it some stick the day before.

The clutch, flywheel and release bearing have now been replaced along with the all important clutch line, which i believe is the problem as it releases the clutch to slowly at the ID is loo small.

the problems I am having now, missfire is because a loom was trapped, however I am promised Monday collection.

Will check over the car as it has been apart for some 3 weeks now, all whells and bumper off along with bonnet etc......Making sure no scratches on wings atc.

I would be very careful launching the car,I believe that a launch followed by a long thrash is what kiled the clutch the first time. If you do die on the strip, push it outside to save the hastle with audi. However the Audi Experience is in an RS4 around the track!!!!! I believe this comes with a clutch warning tho!

Scott


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## W7 PMC

We had 2 B7 RS4's at VMAX yesterday & mine performed perfectly, however the other one did suffer alot of clutch slippage & started leaving very long breaks between runs.

All my starts were dropping clutch at 3-4000RPM with no problems at all & a few i even rode the clutch very briefly to get initial traction & then burried the throttle, again with no problems. As per the VMAX thread, i ran head to head 5 times with a 996 Turbo & evey time i was neck & neck up to over 100MPH, when the 996's slightly better aerodynamics meant it was able to pull away & post speeds into the low 180's against my 172MPH.

I will of course keep a very close eye on the clutch for the time being & get it checked at il service in 2 weeks before i leave for Germany.


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## scott-tt225

Good news it seems.

I think that the clutch suffers from launches at higher revs. It seems tehre is some form of launch control as the car dips the revs then pulses the throttle until you have pulled off fully???

Still waiting for the car back.....

Scott


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## scott-tt225

Just a quick update.

I now have the car back and it seems that all is well.

lets see if this clutch lasts a little longer???


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## scott-tt225

Having problems again.

The car has literally covered 100 ish miles and I think the clutch has gone agin. There must be more to this..... will be the 4rd clutch to go in 5000 miles???

Help.... who to soeak to?


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## Wondermikie

Sounds serious then, there must be a design flaw that you are able to replicate regularly if your 3rd clutch has gone :?


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## scott-tt225

The car has only been driven gently.

My poor mum was sdo petrified after the servive manager put the fear of god into her about riding the clutch or launching the thing.

I have driven it and my only comment could be that the clutch pedal releases very slowly from the biting point upwards. I think that this is causing the clutch to release too slowly and burn-out.

Symptoms as follows.....

Car will not go into gear with the engine running. 
Switch off, car goes into gear. 
Start car
Lift up clutch 5mm and the car pulls away
Cannot change to 2nd at all.

No burning smell, no rattles no nothing!

How do we stand in terms to car not being fit for the puropse? 3rd time the clutch has gone iun about 2 months?

Thanks


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## brittan

Sounds like the clutch is not disengaging properly, hence inability to engage gears while the engine is running and inability to change to second. It could be a problem with the master or slave cylinders or just bleeding, assuming the clutch is hydraulically actuated. 
Another possibility is incorrect assembly of the clutch itself: and given the number of replacements you've had maybe it's been wrong since build and the dealer mechanics are putting it back the same as they find it???? :?


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## scott-tt225

I think that the problem is hydraulic and I have said this from the start.

The workshop that did it have done 3 other RS4's in the last few weeks so I hope they know how they go together.

If they are just replacing the clutch that is worn because of a hydraulic problem, not solving the hydraulic problem surely this would make the clutch burn out again?

Las time the pedal felt the same and the clutch was in bits on inspection, the clucth has melted to the flywheel.

Scott


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## scott-tt225

Anybody know the legality with regards to rejecting a car?

Scott


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## brittan

I've rejected 3 cars in the past - all from the purchase of a VW Golf. But I'm no legal expert and the dealer in my case was very helpful and gave no problems at all.

Your dealer is in breach of contract because your car isn't of satisfactory quality (Section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act). This is assuming that the problem wasn't revealed when you took delivery of the car.

Provided a buyer of faulty goods acts quickly they're entitled to reject them and get a full refund. Not sure how long you've had the car but this time aspect is probably the biggest hurdle as the SoG act gives no actual time within which a consumer must reject the goods. I think the act just says something like 'reasonable time'. The fact you gave the seller the chance to repair the vehicle wouldn't affect this right.

Even if you've lost the right to reject and get a full refund, you have additional rights. First and foremost, you're entitled to have the car repaired within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to you.

If you intend to go down the rejection route it will be worth contacting your local CAB to get the full sp before visiting the dealer.


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## scott-tt225

Most helpful.

Thanks

Scott


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## W7 PMC

Still watching this with interest.

No issues with mine yet & at VMAX i made many many hard launches, dropping the clutch at 3-5000RPM & no problems.

That said, another B7 RS4 attending did have clutch issues a couple of times but no major problems.

Good luck getting it sorted.


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## scott-tt225

I really do hope that it is a case of the technicians not repairing the car correctly.

Something must be causing the clutch to fail this quickly, I am aware that audi have released replacement hydraulic lines for the RS4 to help with clutch life. These have been fitted.

There must be something that is causing the clutch to fail that the audi technicians are not sorting out. Hence repeat premature failure.

The odd thing is that I am not getting any clutch smell or smoke? The first time it happened the smell was terrible.

I am going into the centre later so I can speak to the techs and see what they have found. Odd thing is that Audi technical were involved last time and they still havnt sorted it.


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## scott-tt225

It has been confirmed that the clutch has again failed.

Looks like another 2 weeks then....... must have a faulty master or something like that?


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## brittan

Sorry to hear that; what a pita. :? I'd be interested to hear the gory details once the clutch is dismantled and examined - I'm curious about if the clutch is melted again or if its ok and the fault lies in the hydraulic system.

I'm also expecting that you will insist that the clutch is properly and fully examined by a suitably qualified and experienced person from Audi technical. It seems that they have some explaining to do.


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## scott-tt225

I am having a complete nighmare with audi at the moment. Audi CS are a joke!!!!

Date of Purchase: 01/11/2006

31/07/2007 Clutch and Flywheel replaced (3300 miles)
07/08/2007 Clutch and Flywheel replaced (4413 miles)
23/08/2007 Clutch and Flywheel replaced (4882 miles)
28/08/2007 Clutch and flywheel faliure, suspect faulty master cylinder...(5005miles)

As you can all probably understand I am totally frustrated at this point. Audi seem reluctant to provide what I class as a replacement car for the RS4. In the space of a month 4 clutches have failed in the car and each time we have been made to feel fully responsible and have been talked down to by the Audi techs saying that there must be a fault with my driving!

If the car had been financed over 36 months (typical) the repayments would be in the region of Â£2000 p/m. So for the last month we would have paid out that money for a car that we have not used, plus I have been told that we are looking at a month or so to repair this time as technical will be involved.

Simple, give me a replacement car to the same spec or better. I have paid for it, its not my fault it keeps going wrong, why should inferior car have to do...?

Anybody suggest any points for a letter to Audi CS, or perhaps a contact that knows what he is doing???

Scott


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## thebears

Sorry to hear this mate, I had a similar problem with Seat some years back on a Leon, in the end a replacement was provided but this took several months.

Write the letters, log the calls and go and speak to Citizens advice, somewhere on one of the forums or RAC/AA is a gudie to rejecting a car, i'll have a search.

Keep your chin up, demand a repalcement of like quality, it is possible as when the TT was in the managed to source a MK2 TT at least you'll be driving like for like and putting miles on their car 

Good luck.


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## scott-tt225

After my demands of Audi UK to provide an RS4 while I dont have my car, all was set for tomorrow pick-up. However it now seems that the keys have been lost!

This just gets better! Dont know wetehr I should believe it!

Apparently Audi UK have 2 replacement RS4's, the one has no keys, the other is being repaired for a faulty clutch! That itself says it all!


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## thebears

scott-tt225 said:


> Apparently Audi UK have 2 replacement RS4's, the one has no keys, the other is being repaired for a faulty clutch! That itself says it all!


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## nigelmcg

Got my car back after they had it for 10 days with a wopping Â£1500+Vat bill.

They refused to cover it under warranty as the car had been seen at a track day the weekend before...someone who worked at the Audi dealership was there and provided the service department with photos.

I was extremely disapointed as all of the photos in the sales brochure for the RS4 are taken either on or at a track.

Spoke to Audi CS and after 24hrs they just advised me to collect my car and pay for it.

Now looking to change the car as I do not believe it is fit for purpose, the car had only been on the track once and for less than 15mins...


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## scott-tt225

I would not be tollerating that!

Firstly, you have not been told anywhwere that the car cannot be used on the track, or have you

Audi use them for the driving experience, hence you thought a one day event should be fine....?

The chap at Audi is a tosser! Either way under warranty or not they would have been paid out, he is just being a jobs worth! I would have arguse that it was not my car on the track.

I would moan like hell to Audi CS and mention my case to them if it helps? You should get a refund?

I had a 70% contribution from the factory which is standard practice and a Â£500 audi goodwill from Audi UK. I dont know why you havnt got the 70% contribution?

How bad was the clutch? Was it in pieces or just burned and worn?

Scott


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## RussianM3_dude

I have some issues with my clutch. It is getting somewhat difficult to change gears while on the move. Changing the gear is now a two step process, first get the lever out of a gear then with a little force into another. Two times, the lever would go in, but nothing would happen. Also I often get grinding noise when I select reverse. Exact same problems as my old Alfa. Before anybody says it's from abuse, my 130MSport had no such problems after like 18 months.

Synchros are gone???? Needs oil????


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## TTwiggy

you see, what you should all have done is bought a car that was designed with the track in mind  :wink:

(ducks, and runs for cover...)


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## Carlos

I wonder what the warranty document small print says.

I seem to remember a similar issue with Mitsubishi I think. Started rejecting warranty claims for Evos that had been on track. My memory might be failing me but I think eventually they had to cave in. How many people buy evos and *don't* take them on track?

If the warranty small print rules out track use, that tells you all you need to know about taking an RS4 on track.


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## RussianM3_dude

Well, why track a heavy and badly balanced car that also has AWD???


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## Carlos

That is a good point, but not entirely helpful.


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## scott-tt225

I personally think that the RS4 Saloon handles very very well. Infact a mate of mine drove it at the weekend who has an elise and he commented on how good the handling was......?


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## brittan

scott-tt225 said:


> I personally think that the RS4 Saloon handles very very well. Infact a mate of mine drove it at the weekend who has an elise and he commented on how good the handling was......?


Scott
Is yours fixed again now? Interested to hear the update on the story and also the technical details of how/why the clutch failed again.


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## scott-tt225

Still not fot it back.

I think that it is with Audi technical at the moment. I know that the plan is to change the clutch maaster cylinder, slave and lines aswell as the clutch and flywheel.

There were talks of Germany, but frankly I am at the stage now where I dont care....

The RS4 they have given us atm is great!


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## HighTT

nigelmcg said:


> They refused to cover it under warranty as the car had been seen at a track day the weekend before...someone who worked at the Audi dealership was there and provided the service department with photos.


Track days are NOT hard on clutches; you are not doing racing starts from standstill :? :?

Yet another reason to tape over your plates when doing a Track Day :roll:


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## scott-tt225

Loads of people are killing their clutches on track days.

That is why I think I am right when I say that the clutch is going because it is slipping between gear changes......


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## W7 PMC

RussianM3_dude said:


> Well, why track a heavy and badly balanced car that also has AWD???


What a shock. The RS246 Troll turns up on the ********.

You hate B7 RS4's on RS246, so now feel the need to come over here with your entirely non relevant info.

If you're to be believed, you own a lemon RS4 that you're leased up to the eyeballs with, you never test drove the car before ordering & bought totally the wrong colour & spec.

The RS4 in it's mid size class, has one of the best chassis available & you're gonna choke if i tell you how many M3/CS/CSL & E90 M3's it spanked round Nordschleife.


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## W7 PMC

scott-tt225 said:


> Still not fot it back.
> 
> I think that it is with Audi technical at the moment. I know that the plan is to change the clutch maaster cylinder, slave and lines aswell as the clutch and flywheel.
> 
> There were talks of Germany, but frankly I am at the stage now where I dont care....
> 
> The RS4 they have given us atm is great!


I know this does not help your case, but just back from Germany & not a sniff of any clutch problems or said problems from the many other B7 RS4's i encountered. I do feel this problem although not helping is not one that's range affected, so perhaps more an unfortunate problem with just the odd car.


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## scott-tt225

That is good news......

Hopefully they will sort it this time?

RS4 Saloon is so much better to drive than the CAb, fells so much more solid. Infact, i will be sad to have the Cab back!


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## brittan

scott-tt225 said:


> That is good news......


Here's hoping they sort it properly this time then. At least you've got an appropriate courtesy car!


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## scott-tt225

Finally got the car back today.

After a couple of issues with the service manager were ironed-out I took the RS4 home.

I can say that the car drives fine however I ama little concerned that there is still an issue.... the car is very different to drive in terms of pedal control to the Saloon that I have been driving.

The resting position for the clutch pedal on the CAb is some 40mm higher than the brake pedal, wheras in the sallon the brake and clutch were level. Perhaps I have been riding the clutch while driving???

Anyway, will see how it goes. If it is going to go, it should do in a couple of days if following suit.

Scott


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## brittan

Glad you've got the car back now and hope its really sorted properly now. That said, the pedal issue doesn't sound right. I presume you queried it with the dealer and they've given you some sort of 'reason' for the difference in pedal height between the two cars??

How does the clutch bite point compare between the two cars? There should be some arrangement for controlling or adjusting the pedal height at rest position.


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## scott-tt225

Hi.

I asked the dealer about this.

He had no reply....?

I assume that he was unaware that the resting position can be altered, are you sure?

Scott


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## brittan

scott-tt225 said:


> Hi. I assume that he was unaware that the resting position can be altered, are you sure?
> 
> Scott


No, I'm not sure. I've only driven an RS4 a couple of times and I didn't look at the pedals! 
But there must be a stop of some sort. There will be a spring also to return the pedal fully to the rest position. The stop may simply be a part of the pedal bracket assembly but it must be there in some form or the limit of the pedal would be governed by the internal bits of the master cylinder and that is not good engineering practice.
I thought adjustment might be available as you said the pedal position was different between Cab and saloon; and I've seen other cars with such adjustment.

It might be worth taking a torch and having a good look at the pedal pivot area. Some pics may be useful too.


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## Teutonic_Tamer

Hello one and all - my first post, so be gentle! :wink:



scott-tt225 said:


> My poor mum was sdo petrified after the servive manager put the fear of god into her about riding the clutch or launching the thing.
> 
> I have driven it and my only comment could be that the clutch pedal releases very slowly from the biting point upwards. I think that this is causing the clutch to release too slowly and burn-out.
> 
> Symptoms as follows.....
> 
> Car will not go into gear with the engine running.
> Switch off, car goes into gear.
> Start car
> Lift up clutch 5mm and the car pulls away
> Cannot change to 2nd at all.
> 
> No burning smell, no rattles no nothing!


OK, I had identical problems with the clutch on my B6 S4.

It was about 18 months old, with about 13k miles. Drving in the snow (having a little fun, but not abusing anything!), the clutch pedal started to go "floppy", and gradually started to sink to the floor after each use. It eventually remained on the floor, and you couldn't change gear with the engine running. Park up for 20mins to work out what had happened - grovelling on my knees to try to investigate. Started her up and the clutch seemed better, but rapidly got worse again. No clutch smell - at all.

Recovered by Audi Assistance, and was all covered under warranty. I asked to see the parts which they replaced. The flywheel had no blueing at all, though it did have some scoring. The pressure plate was like the flywheel (no blueing, but light scoring). The centre friction plate was a mess though. It had badly disintegrated, the friction lining had "torn" itself from the metal support, and the "cush" drive torsion springs and surrounding areas were a total mess. Also, the combined release arm and slave cylinder also showed signs of damage. The integral release bearing was blue, and partially seized, and the actual arm also had a bend which wasn't as Audi had designed.

All was replaced, and at no cost to me. The car was used for another 2+ years, adding another 20k miles, including 1 track day and some really "enthusiastic" driving in the French mountains, and never missed a beat.

Regarding the "driving", and general clutch care, my SWMBO occasionally used it, and was a devil for holding it on hills whilst slipping the clutch (and not using the handbrake) :evil: She rarely used it though, so I doubt caused any long term damage. Another notable occurance was when I had to park it in a really tight spot, and although I had a couple of marshals, they were as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Anyway, this took me about 30 minutes, and it was pissing down, I was getting in and out, trying to tell the marshalls exactly what to do. I started to steam, the car started to steam, and I did notice a distinct smell from the clutch, and a small change in the bite point. All this happened about six months before it finally gave up, but inbetween, it was perfectly OK.

My current B7 RS4 has not given me any concern, but I'm frantically searching for wood to touch!


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## DeanTT

Teutonic_Tamer said:


> I'm frantically searching for wood to touch!


You can touch my wood, I'm easy.


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## Teutonic_Tamer

DeanTT said:


> Teutonic_Tamer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm frantically searching for wood to touch!
> 
> 
> 
> You can touch my wood, I'm easy.
Click to expand...

So I've heard! :lol: :lol:


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## scott-tt225

Broke again......

Went away on a flat bed today. Covered 96 miles since having it back

The joke goes on.....


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## Love_iTT

Beyond a joke now mate, refuse it and be done with it. Even if they do fix it, you will never feel good with it ever again. Sorry you've had all this trouble with it though, apart from that one brief moment I had with mine (which I'm fast coming to the conclusion was down to me) has been fine since so not all RS4's are bad. :wink:

Graham


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## scott-tt225

Sham really as it took me years to get the olds out of Bm's into Audis and now were are left with this bitter aftertaste.

Atleast the old man loves his A6, hes done over 50K now, on an 06 and it hasnt missed a beat.

Really dont know whats going on with teh RS4?

Anybody got some pointers for refusal?

Scott


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## brittan

Not again! Sorry to hear; that 40mm difference in pedal height was a clue though that something was still wrong. So although it must be incredibly frustrating for you I'm not surprised that the fix was only temporary.

I suppose you are now waiting for the dealer/Audi to come up with a proposal for the way forward. But maybe you should consider rejecting the car. You have after all given them ample oportunity to repair it.


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## Wondermikie

Love_iTT said:


> ...not all RS4's are bad. :wink:
> 
> Graham


Good point, it's strange how *W7 PMC* has tracked/VMax'd his with no problems, and yet this one seems to be falling over with light use. Most strange :?

I hope you manage to get it sorted.


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## scott-tt225

To be totally honest guys, the first time the clutch went was because of the way I was driving it.

Since then, I think it is because something is still fualty. Just dont know what it is?


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## Wondermikie

What were you doing Scott? TBH it's a performance car, unless you were side-stepping the clutch at 5000rpm (you weren't were you :? ) it should be able to stand up to it. Otherwise what's the point of having it? It sounds dodgy to me.


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## The Silver Surfer

Love_iTT said:


> *Beyond a joke now mate, refuse it and be done with it.* Even if they do fix it, you will never feel good with it ever again. Sorry you've had all this trouble with it though, apart from that one brief moment I had with mine (which I'm fast coming to the conclusion was down to me) has been fine since so not all RS4's are bad. :wink:
> 
> Graham


Agreed! They've had more than enough chances to repair it. I'd contact the Citizens Advice Bureau.


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## scott-tt225

The first time it went I was following a Gallardo, i dont think that it was the accelerating that killed the clutch, it was the hard down changes, the only way I could catch him was in the corners by braking very hard, needing to downchange also.

I think that they have had a fair chance too. But what would it be replaced by? New M3???


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## scott-tt225

Very bad day today in terms of Sutton Coldfield Audi and their customer service.

I will attach the letter that I sent in a moment, basically rejected the car due to the ongoing issues and the fact its had 5 clutches since 31st July.

Had a call from the head of business regarding the letter that I sent in, I am shocked by the way that I was spoken to but also the conent of the phone call.

I dropped the letter in at about 1pm, he was not available so left it in reception, noticed a police van and a ADT alarm van outside.

Had a call at about 3 pm, from head of business, they are not changing the car for a new one, or refunding in full because the car has been thrashed aparrently. I agreed that the first time maybe was due to the driving style, but that lesson had been learned, there is no way that the clutches could keep going because of driving stlye.

He continued to say that he had discussed my driving with the police woman that was in the showroom at that time as they had both spotted me. She recognsed me apparently and said she sees me doing doughnuts and handbrake turns in the RS4 all the time. I am totally shocked that he bases his reasoning on what a police woman has said. I am also shocked that this police woman has said it in the first place, I have never had a conviction for dangerous driving and I have also never done a handbrake turn or doughnut in the RS4, or in any car for that matter. Surely it is impossible to do eiter in the RS4 due to the quattro???

I am disgusted and still quite shocked, he continued to say taht the problem with the car this time was due to me messing with the car??? I havnt messed with anything, I am sure that I would mess with the car so that it broke down on me???

Who the hell does this guy think that he is??? I have just logged a complaint with CS, I hope his head rolls for this, I really do.

If they are so sure that each clutch failed due to abuse, why were they replaced FOC under warranty then? Surely i would have been presented with a bill?

Where do i stand with the whole discussing me with a police officer then admitting it? Slander? Can they just choose not to replace ther car, surely I am within my rights?


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## thebears

I think its time as said before to go to CAB or get yourself a Solicitor, pleanty out there on NWNF who would take this case on.

So what if you drive it hard, i have the S3 and give it a good thrapping now and then, it is a performace hatch and designed to.

Good luck but get legal advice, I did recently, cost me Â£180 for the meeting and pocketed me a good deal as a result.

ATB


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## W7 PMC

Just taking a step back & playing devils advocate, but why on earth would a Copper for no reason just spout on about you doing donuts etc. if it were not true???

I'm not for a moment saying the Police are whiter than white, but if the copper was telling a bare faced lie, then surely that's slander & the old bill tend to be pretty clued up on how to avoid unwanted attention by saying/doing things that are NOT totally PC (liked the pun).

Not for a moment saying you've done much wrong & no idea why Audi are singling you out, but it strikes me as very odd, unless their is a ring of truth in what the copper said.

Also & while i sympathise with your current situation, as Wondermikie says, my RS4 has undergone some very hard driving so far & has not missed a beat. Over 50 laps of the Nordschleife at racing speeds over 5 days, a VMAX where to pace with a 996 Turbo & new M5, i was launching the car at well over 4K RPM, so i'm a tad surprised how your car could possibly get through 4 or 5 clutches so quickly??

If i were you, i'd have the Dealer Principal & Service Manager, along with the Audi UK Regional Manager round the throat & you could be sure my car would either be replaced or they'd strip the damned gearbox & clutch down & replace every part.


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## scott-tt225

I truley believe that the reason the clutch has gone is the hydraulic side, I think that the clutch was releasing too slowly and slipping. This should hopefully have been sorted by the master cylinder replacement.

I know where the situation with the police officer is coming from, not totally as he said it, after some digging I revealed that is from my past, years ago when I was younger and was in with the boy racers. Admittedly I never did doughnuts as such but if you associate with these people you all get tarred with the same brush.

I think that it is rediculous to give such reasons not to replace a car.

Meeting tomorrow at 11.30 to discuss the situation, keep you posted.


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## nigelmcg

Hi

Its nigelmcg from page 4 of this thread....

I just thought i would let you know that they never did cover my clutch under warranty as a member of staff from the local audi garage had seen me at a track day the weekend before and grassed me up...

I had been driving it like a pussy as i didn't want to cook the brakes or wreck the thing, i was even being wasted by a track prepared 192 renault sport clio...

Anyway my clutch gave up a couple of days after the trackday but they refused to cover it, got audi cs involved and they just told me to go collect the car and pay for it...!!!

I do believe there are about 7 photos in the official RS4 brochure where the car is being driven round a track...

I intend to try and take it further as i believe i shouldnt have been made to pay for it...

It now has 6000 miles and is back with the dealer as the fuel pump and sender unit has failed...this they say will be covered under warranty.

I have never been so excited about getting a car and then so dissapointed by all the trouble i have had and the treatment by the local dealer...

Car is being traded in asap...

Does anybody want a non resonated full milltek exhaust system including valves(operated by sport button)....Cost new Â£1750.00 will accept best offer around Â£1000.00...sounds bloody amazing...

Hope you get yours sorted scott-tt

Kind regards

nigelmcg


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## Love_iTT

Why do they have a lap counter incorporated in the DIS if you're not allowed to have the occasional track day?

Why is it that you can order special track day wheels and tires at the point of order?

These two items are all in the Audi RS4 sales brochure. :roll: :roll:

They really shouldn't have a leg to stand on regarding track days to be honest.

Graham


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## scott-tt225

Very intersting comments Graham.

I never realised that those options were available or that the DIS had a laptimer.

Scott


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## scoTTy

I've always assummed they'd never use the "oh you've track it excuse" as not only is it not customer relations but it's terrible PR. i.e. our cars are too fragile if you drive them fast :?


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## DXN

and they use the cars on the audi driving experience

(thrashed on a regular basis beyond 90 miles)


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## TTwiggy

'yes sir, we've found that the problem with your 360 challenge stradale is due to you taking it on track, so we're not covering it in the warranty'

or

'ah, now you see you really shouldn't have taken your Exige S on track...'

can't imagine either of those scenarios, so Audi really shouldn't be able to fob you off - it's a bloody performance car and should be able to take spirited driving over and over again!


----------



## garyc

scott-tt225 said:


> Very bad day today in terms of Sutton Coldfield Audi and their customer service.
> 
> I will attach the letter that I sent in a moment, basically rejected the car due to the ongoing issues and the fact its had 5 clutches since 31st July.
> 
> Had a call from the head of business regarding the letter that I sent in, I am shocked by the way that I was spoken to but also the conent of the phone call.
> 
> I dropped the letter in at about 1pm, he was not available so left it in reception, noticed a police van and a ADT alarm van outside.
> 
> Had a call at about 3 pm, from head of business, they are not changing the car for a new one, or refunding in full because the car has been thrashed aparrently. I agreed that the first time maybe was due to the driving style, but that lesson had been learned, there is no way that the clutches could keep going because of driving stlye.
> 
> He continued to say that he had discussed my driving with the police woman that was in the showroom at that time as they had both spotted me. She recognsed me apparently and said she sees me doing doughnuts and handbrake turns in the RS4 all the time. I am totally shocked that he bases his reasoning on what a police woman has said. I am also shocked that this police woman has said it in the first place, I have never had a conviction for dangerous driving and I have also never done a handbrake turn or doughnut in the RS4, or in any car for that matter. Surely it is impossible to do eiter in the RS4 due to the quattro???
> 
> I am disgusted and still quite shocked, he continued to say taht the problem with the car this time was due to me messing with the car??? I havnt messed with anything, I am sure that I would mess with the car so that it broke down on me???
> 
> Who the hell does this guy think that he is??? I have just logged a complaint with CS, I hope his head rolls for this, I really do.
> 
> If they are so sure that each clutch failed due to abuse, why were they replaced FOC under warranty then? Surely i would have been presented with a bill?
> 
> Where do i stand with the whole discussing me with a police officer then admitting it? Slander? Can they just choose not to replace ther car, surely I am within my rights?


Demand the name of the Police constable, then write to her Chief constable asking for written confirmation that this copper is qualified and empowered by him, to make such unsubstantiated comments to a third party (the dealer), and questioning why, if there is reason, would not his officers take up any such matters of concern about your driving, with you directly.

Copy the dealer, his dealer principal and the AUK area manager.

Whatever to did to the car initially appears to go beyond the clutch assembly. But you have bought a performance car and you need to start exploring AUKs definition of 'abuse', before grinding the legal wheels.

The press and PR wheels are often more effective. :idea:


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## W7 PMC

I've never had any issue from Audi or my local dealer with regard to my driving style or tracking.

Hell, whenever i'm doing a Nurburgring visit & especially after Scuderia, the DP, Service Manager & a few petrolhead employees where dying for a full & detailed discussion about it. I in fact i got an offer from the dealer of a free set of B7 RS4 spare wheels solely for track use (i may take this offer up yet depending on next years schedule).


----------



## Teutonic_Tamer

Hmm . . . I've been following this thread with jaw-dropping amazement!

scott-tt225 - I'll leave all the legalese for others, as they seem to be offering some sound advice. However, I do want to try to understand why you have had so many subsequent clutch failures.

If I understand correctly, you indicate that the first clutch replacement was possibly as a result of your "driving style" - what, in particlular, were you doing to toast your clutch, if you don't mind me asking?

Onto the laughable series (not at you, I hasten to add) of replacements - did you ever physically examine the faulty components?

I have a gut feeling that barring the initial failure, all the subsequent failures might have been caused by related damage, caused by the muppet at the stealer who replaced the original clutch.

My guess is that the input shaft (or first motion shaft) of the gearbox, which is splined and connects directly with the clutch centre friction plate was damaged (maybe the splines themselves were damaged, preventing the friction plate from moving freely - or the shaft was actually bent, caused by "hanging" an unsupported gearbox during removal or refitting).

Alternatively (or in addition to the input shaft), the gearbox clutch release bearing supporting sleeve (which surrounds the input shaft) could also be damaged, and prevent the release bearing from moving freely (therefore not allowing the clutch to release fully).

Finally, the muppet could have incorrectly used a lubricant on the sliding sleeve, release bearing, or input shaft splines. The amount of times I've seen clutches prematurely toasted because some [email protected] has used copper grease on said areas - the heat of the clutch, contained in the bell housing, dries up the solvent, leaving a sticky gungy mess, which prevents the free movement of the relevant clutch components.

A way to resolve this issue would be to initially demand a new clutch assembly, AND a new gearbox too. If they refuse, then legal action would have to include a qualifed Automobile Engineers report - even if you were to reject the car (which, IMHO, would be a very sad outcome).

HTH, and keep us updated.

Rgds


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## scott-tt225

Hi Guys...

Just to update and answer some questions....

The first clutch went as i was travelling down the A38, between Bassets pole and the M6 Toll Turn off, for those of you that know the road, it is a straight road, couple of roundabouts and that is it, nothing else, no traffic lights etc.

I was driving briskly, taking the car through the revs, but only in the higher gears, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc. After a couple of hadr decellerations, then accelerating out of roundabouts the clutch pedal stayed on the floor after a gear change. That was the end of it, the car would then not engage gear etc. Left to cool for 30mins, and I pulled away very gently and all seemed ok... driving very slowly.

Took the car to the dealer the next day, asked them to look at it.

The stripped after the car broke-down on test drive and found that the clutch was in pieces, and fragments were stuck to the bell housing. Clutch replaced.

After that each time the cluch failed, it was only worn on one side hence my questioning sticky clutch or clutch slipping.

We are currently waiting a decision by Audi Uk with regards to replacing the car. Howeve rthey have advised us to remove the personal plate so hopefully all should be well.

Scott


----------



## Teutonic_Tamer

scott-tt225 said:


> Hi Guys...
> 
> Just to update and answer some questions....
> 
> The first clutch went as i was travelling down the A38, between Bassets pole and the M6 Toll Turn off, for those of you that know the road, it is a straight road, couple of roundabouts and that is it, nothing else, no traffic lights etc.


OK, absolutely nothing there indicates any kind of abuse, by any stretch of imagination!



scott-tt225 said:


> I was driving briskly, taking the car through the revs, but only in the higher gears, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc. After a couple of hadr decellerations, then accelerating out of roundabouts the clutch pedal stayed on the floor after a gear change. That was the end of it, the car would then not engage gear etc. Left to cool for 30mins, and I pulled away very gently and all seemed ok... driving very slowly.


Your initial symptoms of failure were nigh on identical to what happened to my clutch on my previous B6 S4.

Anyway, again, nothing could remotely be deemed as abuse!

Had you ever done anything previously, though, which might have "tested" the clutch, such as "drag strip" runs, or any standstill & high revs launches? Had you ever previously experienced any smell from the clutch?



scott-tt225 said:


> Took the car to the dealer the next day, asked them to look at it.
> 
> The stripped after the car broke-down on test drive and found that the clutch was in pieces, and fragments were stuck to the bell housing. Clutch replaced.


Was it just the centre friction plate which broke up? On my last S4, the friction plate also disintegrated, but it also damaged the flywheel and clutch pressure plate, as well as the release bearing and arm. I don't know if it left any deposits in the bell housing.



scott-tt225 said:


> After that each time the cluch failed, it was *only worn on one side* hence my questioning sticky clutch or clutch slipping.


Righty, the clutch only wearing on one side indicates damage to the gearbox input shaft. That is a classic case of a fcuk up by the monkey who replaced the previous clutch. I would definately instruct an "expert" automobile engineer. The only remedy for this would be a new clutch, AND gearbox - afterall, you don't want the muppets to strip down your box, and fcuk that up as well. If it can be proved that the gearbox input shaft is damaged, you could be looking at substantial compensation, for both incompetence (from the initial fcuk up), and negligence (for failing to spot the damaged gearbox on subsequent clutch changes).



scott-tt225 said:


> We are currently waiting a decision by Audi Uk with regards to replacing the car. Howeve rthey have advised us to remove the personal plate so hopefully all should be well.
> 
> Scott


Ohh, what, a replacement RS4 ?? Anyway, keep fighting hard!


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## scott-tt225

Hi.

Thanks for your help guys to this point.

The car has never been pushed hard, by that I mean launches etc as I was advised not too, and logis shows a car with that much power and quattro will put massive strain on the drivetrain. Never had any smell of clutch, well that is until this happened, then it could nt be smelt in the car but when the bonnet was lifted.

The whole clutch was a mess, the centre plate, friction plate, pressure plate and flywheel. (Soem of this must be the techs fault who test drove it, I managed to drive it 4 miles to the dealer yet he couldnt drive it 500yards??

I suspected that the tech was at fault. He is quiet inexperienced imo, couple of fuck-ups to date. You saying that the shaft may be bent would not surprise me, especially if you looked at how they removed the engine.

Scott


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## scott-tt225

Just a quick update guys....

Cost Price of car on 1st November 2006 Â£64,000 ish

We have been told by Audi that a car change has been granted and we can have the same car again, this will cost us Â£2000 as a contribution to millage, wear and tear etc.

I have also asked the question, what happens if we dont want an RS4?

Sir, you can then have Â£64,000- Â£2,000 (Â£62,000) to spend on any car of your choice, or a number of cars, or a cheaper car and a refund.....

What do we do now?

Couple of options:
RS4 Cab
A3 2.0Tdi for running about until little sis passes her test
R8 and pay some (using A3 until it arrives)
RS6
New TT S and some change

???

Thanks again for the help and support guys.


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## brittan

So that's a years motoring - not necessarily all in the car you paid for - for Â£2k. Not too shabby. That would seem to be a different mileage and W&T scale they are using than if you had simply traded the car for a new one.

But fair's fair and you've certainly had your share of hassle with the car. What to get now? Well your list doesn't exactly exclude Audis so what about any of them that doesn't have a manual gearbox? :roll:

Glad it's finally sorted for you with an outcome with which you seem to be satisfied.

Did you ever get a decent technical explanation from Audi for the repeated clutch failures? Assembly error? Material issue? Or basic design faults?


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## scott-tt225

A years motoring for Â£2k seems good to me.

Plus we are in a car until this is resolved.

No explanation was ever given, however they intend to sell the car!

The list of jobs that needs to be done is endless, needs new clutch and gearbox IMO, plus wiring loom and little bits and bobs!

I will put the reg up when I know it, so all can steer clear!


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