# Triple dip recession



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

oh thanks a firkin bunch you tory liberal cunch of bunts!!!!! it has been bloody hard enough since 2008.........and now you hint we may be going into a third recession. as the over tax paying poor shafted from every orrofice we have voting public (that means us) why can we not give a vote of no confidence on these pair of clowns and force a general election to get them out and give the WRV a chance.....can't be any worse :?

wonder how many more of our smaller engineering companies and high street retailers will go bust this year.


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## ttjay (Apr 18, 2007)

Read earlier this week that House prices are set to BOOM!!!!

WTF IS GOING ON


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

ttjay said:


> Read earlier this week that House prices are set to BOOM!!!!
> 
> WTF IS GOING ON


Well some fucker has the bucks jay lol


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Strange , I just noticed one of the nice big houses on the outskirts of town was getting a new roof ,, wow I thot , he is doin ok , then I remembered , he is a bankgster [smiley=bomb.gif]


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

roddy said:


> Strange , I just noticed one of the nice big houses on the outskirts of town was getting a new roof ,, wow I thot , he is doin ok , then I remembered , he is a bankgster [smiley=bomb.gif]


Now that is a classic name for them....banister s


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## c15 ttt (Dec 3, 2010)

im not a political follower but each time i manage to watch question time they all seem like a bunch of clowns nit picking for browny point sound bites.we just need someone to grow a pair and get things going again.even if there isnt a 3rd recession,people are frightened at the prospect and keep their wallets closed which isnt helping anything.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

I don't bother watching question time much now either for the same reasons as outlayed above ,,, but I don't expect any better , the politicians of today can't really do anything even if they wanted to ,,,,,,,, there was a time when our politicians were leaders but now they try to be servants ,,, it brings forward a different type of person. , and any true leaders. / visionerys we do have pretty soon get castigated ridiculed and destroyed by the weapons of mass distraction , eg daily mail , BBC etc


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## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

Trouble is everyone is seeking to inhabit the middle ground, and in an attempt to keep everyone happy very little is being achieved. Political posturing over Europe which leaves us in a kind of limbo wont help; we are either in or out, but not half in or half out. My son hasnt has a permanent job in five years since leaving school - the latest scheme just ended and after taking the government money they didnt keep him or anyone else on. The were all sent on their way to allow for the next lot of cheap labour to come through the door (all paid for by you and me). He is devestated, a 21 year old lad breaking his heart in tears after 3 months of real graft (he walked 6 miles to work and back in the snow (thats 12 miles a day) 4 times over the last two weeks). No wonder the highest suicide rates are for young men. Apparently more people are in work now than at any time - if that is the case who are the 2.5 milllion who are not working then? Why are we continuing down a dead end road to nowhere? Why are most of the staff in my companies factories and staff restaurants from Poland ( I am not having a pop, but could you imagine this happening in Spain right now)? Its got to change and quick, or the riots of yester year will be but a taster of what is to come.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

two ways to look at those type of schemes Brian, and i feel very sympathetic towards your lad. it must be bloody sole destroying m8.

as you state, use it as cheap labour and dump for next batch of cheapo's. (way round that is to force them to take on a percentage of them for a minimum time)

a bloody good way for a decent boss and company to get to try out workers on the cheap for the best candidate to employ.


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## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

Gazzer said:


> two ways to look at those type of schemes Brian, and i feel very sympathetic towards your lad. it must be bloody sole destroying m8.
> 
> as you state, use it as cheap labour and dump for next batch of cheapo's. (way round that is to force them to take on a percentage of them for a minimum time)
> 
> a bloody good way for a decent boss and company to get to try out workers on the cheap for the best candidate to employ.


Trouble is mate that noone is being taken on and they are getting free labour for three months. Ok, I guess my lad gets some more experience, has lots of that now because of his own ingenuiity he has never been idle, but what he wants is a job, on minumum wage that he knows will still exist in 3 months time. The parting shot to him was and I have seen it in writing; you have been brilliant; incredibly hard working and a great member of the team, you should be incredibly proud of yourself the way you managed to get here in the snow when half of the people working here didn't, we will be very sad to lose you. This doesnt sound like a kid who did a bad job mate, it sounds like the type of person if there was a job you would keep on. Suggests there isnt a job. They got about £4.5k from the government for everyone the took and let go and got three months work from.


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## conlechi (May 6, 2006)

I am a small independent retailer on the verge of renewing my lease , i own a non essential luxury business and have done so for the last 13 yrs , its a it scary ATM :?
20% vat and tighter margins don't help :evil:

I am more scared about talk of recession and what i read in the news than the attitude of my cutomers spending patterns at the moment 
Business is ok , not good but not too bad either touch wood . Sadly in this country bad news is always headline news :?

Signing my new lease will tie me in for another 5 yrs , big commitment with the state of the current economy .........


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Good luck mate.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

five year lease Mark? now that is scary bud...........but surely if your business went bad or bust they in reality couldn't get blood out of a stone. good luck bud


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## conlechi (May 6, 2006)

Gazzer said:


> five year lease Mark? now that is scary bud...........but surely if your business went bad or bust they in reality couldn't get blood out of a stone. good luck bud


Yep , it's a Limited Company , we have contingency plans if we need them :wink:

We've been there for just over 13yrs , through good and bad times I am confident we can ride it out and still get a reasonable living out of it with a bit of careful planning .


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## T7 Doc (Jun 28, 2007)

I own a small but rapidly changing and thankfully expanding business in NI. We (the NI population) are massive public service work force here and the future looks uncertain. More so with these fuck nuts crying about a flag being flown 365 days a year and closing off the city centre to trade on its busiest days.

That said if the media decided to get behind a positive message and didnt talk things up one day and recalculate it the next with a negative spin then we might get some confidence. Fuck all has really changed to the ordinary guy and girl on the street. I know personally i make decisions i would not normally make just because well thats what you do. Do i spend? naaa no one is! We are all sheep in a way no matter what we think.

The media have us all by the danglies and to the extent that if jonny public tried to speak out they would have him labelled as a rapist/sexual deviant in days..... think wikileaks.

Anyways when they tell us its ok it'll be ok and the good news is they will tell us and we can all rack our personal debt a little higher spending money we dont have as fuel prices will get a little lower and sure that will make us happy....


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

It's all very depressing.

I agree that as Brits we are at the mercy of the media. Sometimes I really wonder if they're 'talking' us down but then you only have to walk the high streets to get mixed messages.

Mark's experience is interesting. In my town there are quite a few jewellers and whilst waiting for a bus (car in for alternator) I got talking to someone who works in one of these. She said they had been busy before Christmas but people were generally spending less money. Her highest value sale for the entire period was £500 for a watch. She also said that a competitor had experienced such a bad time that they were now closing down! Now why would this be? They're in identical locations in the shopping centre albeit on different floors. Could it be the stock on offer? The prices? The service?

There are definitely people out there who have money to spend and I personally feel these people are using this 'power' to demand better service, better products and better value. There is nothing wrong with that because the retail experience generally in this country is a pretty poor one. Of course there are notable exceptions - I always find the staff in M&S food departments always eager to please, very helpful and chatty at the checkouts - sometimes too chatty but they try.

Conversely I really detect a dislike towards Tesco. Now I have never been a fan but I think there are more people who are seeing their bully-boy style upsetting their local neighbourhood by forcing long-standing local traders out of business by cutting prices on the very products these traders sell.

It could be argued that these traders need to adapt and reinvent themselves but that in itself is a very costly business. It is also extremely risky in the present economy - assuming you can find a bank to help.

I don't know what the answer is but I watched a TV programme on Italy the other night and the general consensus is that as communities we should all do more to support local economies. That extends to buying local food, using local shops and supporting local services. In the short term that might cost a little more, but it could do a lot to prevent the march of the big corporates that have taken over everything from clothes shops, to food stores, to even coffee shops.

An old friend of mine invested some money in a new coffee shop in central area of town where a Costa Coffee is opposite a Cafe Nero. Next door but one there is a Greggs. Opposite that there is a Subway. His cafe is not on the high street but just off it. The style is clean and modern with lots of locally produced food on offer attractively displayed on old wooden counters. The tables and chairs are all mismatched items sourced from junk shops and auctions. The menus are displayed on blackboards and change daily and this 'style' was largely forced upon him because of the need to minimise costs.

To further remove himself from the 'chains' offerings he has introduced waitress service so immediately he has removed the need to queue. He has also employed three or four people who might otherwise not have a job. This is almost identical to the way the programme showed coffee shops and local restaurants in Italy being run.

He has done reasonably well. The place is normally full and the quality of the product is consistent. Like any new business he's had teething problems but these are now largely resolved.

So imagine his frustration when a new Pret a Manger opened literally yards from him, the Costa and Cafe Nero. Imagine also his anger when Pret decided to hand out free coffees to promote this new business. These corporates seem out to 'kill off' all independents and it's not right.

This seems to be the way of politicians, councils and big business these days. They want total control and do it by pricing out small shops, raising rates and taxes all because they want their coffers filled. It's short termism at it's worst. What about the people it puts out of business? What about the locals it puts out of work? What about the remaining businesses who suffer because the local population can no longer afford to support them?

People will always buy coffee. These shops seem to have replaced pubs as social hubs. But corporates are doing to coffee shops what they did to pubs. They're removing individuality in the desire to promote 'brand'. They're staffed by people who largely don't care - hardly surprising given they're a paid minimum wage.

All I can hope is my friend has the courage and conviction to continue to innovate. It's a bit tough when the sign outside your shop is obliterated by Pret banners offering special offers and the punters looking to save cash get taken in by the cheap prices.

Wait until the prices go back up. Will the independent alternative still be there to serve you when that happens?


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## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

rustyintegrale said:


> It's all very depressing.
> 
> I agree that as Brits we are at the mercy of the media. Sometimes I really wonder if they're 'talking' us down but then you only have to walk the high streets to get mixed messages.
> 
> ...


Your mate probably pays more tax than those corps you mention too. Any success they have with free coffee will likely be short lived because they can;t maintain that and when it comes to coffee and service people know which sde their bread is buttered usually.

I think communities should pull together full stop, its time to look after each other, because the days of greed and shameless are coming to an end for most folk (the real deep cuts havent bitten yet). People should walk past the mults and support local businessees were they can and when the local business is being fair with them and offerring value.


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## chrishumes (Jun 16, 2008)

Rusty...your spot on, and the same can be said of local bike shops and the likes of my mates local pro golf shop. Everyone around are mates, fellow golfers etc on a local course, and everyone uses the shop....for trying new stuff. They then go home, check the internet, and buy the lowest price they see.

Sometimes these turn out to be chinese copies...who do they turn to for advice...the local shop!

Give it a year and there will be no local shops and the prices will rise.


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## c15 ttt (Dec 3, 2010)

brian.i empathize with your sons situation.it sounds like he has been getting the shitty end of the stick too often.i dont know what type of jobs he is going for but in my experience as an employer is that the apprenticeship schemes are a bit weak.a few years ago i took on an apprentice plasterer for who i had to pay £95 a week and i think it was a 3 year course.as i was a bit green i assumed that this was the way it would run til qualified.after a year i received an e mail asking if i was prepared to employ this lad full time and if i didnt i would have to send him back to college.plastering is a skilled trade and some people pick it up quicker than others but this lad was learning ok but not well enough for me to be able to make any money off so paying 200 and odd pound a week would have to come out of my pocket.i asked for a 6 month extension and guaranteed him a job as he was doing ok after this period but was refused.i had to send him back which meant he had lost the opportunity to get the job and i had wasted my time training him,picking him up etc.. for that first year at college he did 90 percent paperwork anyway.after he went back to college he was sent on a placement with a big plastering company where he was taken on after their 1 year apprenticeship.why didnt they just leave him where he was...i had trained him 75 percent and they sent him to a different company to use his skills.he was shortly laid off,did a year in the mines in oz then returned to the uk.as it happens i now use him as a sub contractor.he has been sent round the doors to get back where he started.this is a long way of saying that the apprenticeship scheme should be tailored to suit the job.if the apprentice is doing well then they should acknowledge that and support them.


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## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

c15 ttt said:


> brian.i empathize with your sons situation.it sounds like he has been getting the shitty end of the stick too often.i dont know what type of jobs he is going for but in my experience as an employer is that the apprenticeship schemes are a bit weak.a few years ago i took on an apprentice plasterer for who i had to pay £95 a week and i think it was a 3 year course.as i was a bit green i assumed that this was the way it would run til qualified.after a year i received an e mail asking if i was prepared to employ this lad full time and if i didnt i would have to send him back to college.plastering is a skilled trade and some people pick it up quicker than others but this lad was learning ok but not well enough for me to be able to make any money off so paying 200 and odd pound a week would have to come out of my pocket.i asked for a 6 month extension and guaranteed him a job as he was doing ok after this period but was refused.i had to send him back which meant he had lost the opportunity to get the job and i had wasted my time training him,picking him up etc.. for that first year at college he did 90 percent paperwork anyway.after he went back to college he was sent on a placement with a big plastering company where he was taken on after their 1 year apprenticeship.why didnt they just leave him where he was...i had trained him 75 percent and they sent him to a different company to use his skills.he was shortly laid off,did a year in the mines in oz then returned to the uk.as it happens i now use him as a sub contractor.he has been sent round the doors to get back where he started.this is a long way of saying that the apprenticeship scheme should be tailored to suit the job.if the apprentice is doing well then they should acknowledge that and support them.


Couldnt agree more Gaz. My partner works for a local hauliers (chemicals etc) and hearing of his plight they may have an opportunity of a modern day apprenticship (which they pay for in full) - he will start as a labourer on two shifts for more than the minimum wage and be supervised all day, but will be trained over a period in a trade likely welding. They said they are looking for a clean lving lad who doesnt drink or smoke and just wants to do a good days graft; not interested in brains or smarts with no work ethic. I am just saying my prayers something comes of it mate. At his age I had been to sea for three years and done two additonal full time jobs a year a piece and could live my life; he is 21 and cant even start living as it currently is. At the moment he is reliant on me and his mother for everything and he hates it (I am taking him out today to get his some new clobber and for his dinner, a bit of a motivating chat too, although he is already smiling again and ready for another challange; I dont know how he does it.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Brian , if your boy gets the chance to get into welding jump at it ,,,,,it is a good skill and can be very well paid , it can be a bit boring in the long term but for someone with the go ahead that your lad seems to have the world is his oyster , it does take a couple of years To be fully competent in all aspects but then he he can move on to inspection even welding / fabtication engineer , all over the world,,,,,, a wee tip for him ,,,, concentrate on TIG welding , it is the daddy ,, if I can help at all then please ask, oh and another tip ,, always wear proper breathing aperatus , the fumes , espacially stainless , are toxic .


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## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

roddy said:


> Brian , if your boy gets the chance to get into welding jump at it ,,,,,it is a good skill and can be very well paid , it can be a bit boring in the long term but for someone with the go ahead that your lad seems to have the world is his oyster , it does take a couple of years To be fully competent in all aspects but then he he can move on to inspection even welding / fabtication engineer , all over the world,,,,,, a wee tip for him ,,,, concentrate on TIG welding , it is the daddy ,, if I can help at all then please ask, oh and another tip ,, always wear proper breathing aperatus , the fumes , espacially stainless , are toxic .


Thanks Roddy I apprreciate the advice very much mate!


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

roddy said:


> Brian , if your boy gets the chance to get into welding jump at it ,,,,,it is a good skill and can be very well paid , it can be a bit boring in the long term but for someone with the go ahead that your lad seems to have the world is his oyster , it does take a couple of years To be fully competent in all aspects but then he he can move on to inspection even welding / fabtication engineer , all over the world,,,,,, a wee tip for him ,,,, concentrate on TIG welding , it is the daddy ,, if I can help at all then please ask, oh and another tip ,, always wear proper breathing aperatus , the fumes , espacially stainless , are toxic .


+1 on what Rodders has said!!! A fully coded welder has a get out of jail card to just about anywhere in the world Brian.


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## ash24 (Feb 18, 2013)

I do wonder whether these local businesses would remain above water if parking wasn't so damn expensive.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

ash24 said:


> I do wonder whether these local businesses would remain above water if parking wasn't so damn expensive.


 Huh ??????????


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## oceans7 (Oct 20, 2009)

Gazzer said:


> oh thanks a firkin bunch you tory liberal cunch of bunts!!!!! it has been bloody hard enough since 2008.........and now you hint we may be going into a third recession. as the over tax paying poor shafted from every orrofice we have voting public (that means us) why can we not give a vote of no confidence on these pair of clowns and force a general election to get them out and give the WRV a chance.....can't be any worse :?
> 
> wonder how many more of our smaller engineering companies and high street retailers will go bust this year.


You can put me on this list gaz, after years of struggling against escalating running costs, sky high council rate bills, and an ineffective let us lick your arsehole mr bank government, I have thrown in the towel and shut my business that was started from scratch 8 years ago. There is not triple dip, the truth is we never got out of the first recession and this shit is here to stay for at least another ten years, or until someone unearths a cache of gold worth about a trillion pounds, because let's face it, we've got fuck all left to sell, and we're not exactly a major player on the manufacturing front anymore, the banks are full of greedy self serving cunts, our leaders are weaker than a watered down glass of piss and the countries debts are rising and rising. In a nutshell, this country has been fucked and is therefore now fucked. I know this might sound defeatest and damn right negative, but I reckon it's pretty close to the facts.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

aww bud i am sorry to hear your news!!! not good mucker, my thoughts are with you after grafting for 8 years to grow and survive. (man hug m8ee)


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## oceans7 (Oct 20, 2009)

Gazzer said:


> aww bud i am sorry to hear your news!!! not good mucker, my thoughts are with you after grafting for 8 years to grow and survive. (man hug m8ee)


 Thanks mate! On the plus side it has given me the kick up the ass i need to get out and see a bit more of the world, so will be setting off on a two year odyssey in the near future, where i intend to see as much of this beautiful planet as i can fit in. So in a way, it's not all bad!


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

oceans7 said:
 

> Thanks mate! On the plus side it has given me the kick up the ass i need to get out and see a bit more of the world, so will be setting off on a two year odyssey in the near future, where i intend to see as much of this beautiful planet as i can fit in. So in a way, it's not all bad!


It'll be the best thing you've ever done. I certainly regret not doing when I had the chance. [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## SalsredTT (Jan 8, 2011)

Anyone else spotted what I did hidden in the press today? That we are possibly looking at NEGATIVE interest rates for savers?


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

SalsredTT said:


> Anyone else spotted what I did hidden in the press today? That we are possibly looking at NEGATIVE interest rates for savers?


oh great Sal, just what we want.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

there was no mention of it in the shetland times,, but there again nor was much of any interest, certainly not anything about the german gold,,,, does everyone know about that ?????


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## SalsredTT (Jan 8, 2011)

Negative interest rates should be considered as an option to encourage banks to lend to small and medium-sized firms, the Bank of England's deputy governor for financial stability said today.

Paul Tucker said the dramatic move had been discussed at this month's rate-setting meeting as an option to help fuel economic growth.

Such a move would spell catastrophe for cash-strapped savers, who have already been crippled by rock bottom rates since the Bank of England dramatically cut the base rate to its record low of 0.5 per cent in March 2009.
The Bank of England has kept the base rate at the historic low of 0.5 per cent since March 2009, which is now nearly four years

The Bank of England has kept the base rate at the historic low of 0.5 per cent since March 2009, which is now nearly four years.

Cutting it further to below zero would effectively mean depositors, such as high street lenders, would have to pay the central bank to hold their money.

The hope would be that banks would therefore choose to lend out more of their funds to small businesses rather than stockpiling it at their expense.

In a nutshell..............

And here's the German gold story : http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article38743.html


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

SalsredTT said:


> Anyone else spotted what I did hidden in the press today? That we are possibly looking at NEGATIVE interest rates for savers?


Yes, but that was 'negative interest' for banks holding their cash in the Bank of England. Neg interest = having top pay a fee rather than getting interest on the money. It's a proposal only atm, one designed to 'persuade' banks to loan money to businesses.


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## SalsredTT (Jan 8, 2011)

But savers could be hit as it is yet more pressure on rates and banks may pass on that pain to customers and slash interest rates.

Me no fancy that - might have to fill the safe tomorrow and empty the bank! The interest I am currently getting is a disgrace.


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

There's not that much scope to slash interest rates further on 'conventional savings' vehicles and still attract funds. Mind you atm banks and building societies are not that interested in competing for our money since they are lending so little. 
Anyway, such savings are already losing money in real terms since they are more or less outstripped by inflation.


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## SalsredTT (Jan 8, 2011)

brittan said:


> There's not that much scope to slash interest rates further on 'conventional savings' vehicles and still attract funds. Mind you atm banks and building societies are not that interested in competing for our money since they are lending so little.
> Anyway, such savings are already losing money in real terms since they are more or less outstripped by inflation.


Very true.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

efectively american finance fraudsters has stolen the German gold,,,,,,,,,,,, what a bout the re assesment of the value of their own stuff,,if they actually have any !!


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