# Machine polish finishing advice needed...



## MrHooky (Oct 27, 2009)

Quick bit of advice needed please.

My wife's A5 was delivered new in December with some pretty shoddy paintwork given a brand spanking new car. Rear arches were quite badly surface scratched (clearcoat damage) when viewed in sunlight. I kicked up a fuss and we've finally had it machine polished by Audi 'on the house'.

Over the weekend when direct sunlight shined on the rear corner I thought I could see patterns which could only be created by a machine polisher. Only very faint, and probably only noticeable to those who are as OCD about polishing waxing (like me) from spending too much time on this forum!

Now my question is, do you think this should come out with a good hand wax now? I'm wanting to put some collinite onto the car for longevity as to be honest it's the TT which get's pampered and not the A5 although I'd still like it looking good. It's not holograms, more perhaps residue that has been created by using a machine polisher to apply the polish/wax.

Any tips from you machine polishing pros?

Maybe I should just stop being so fussy - I just can't be bothered with the hassle of raising this with Audi/leasing company again&#8230;


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## abz001 (Jun 15, 2008)




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## Robtur (Jul 6, 2009)

Yeah buffer trails are usually caused by a machine polisher (Buffer) being used in the wrong hands. Not having an understanding whats required. They will use the buffer indoors and to them its a rushed job and usually not refining the polishing stage. Indoors you would not notice these buffer trails, until the sunlight hits off it.

You can, in essence correct a car by hand, even refine by hand, but where as a machine polisher could allow you to refine a car very quickly in comparisson to doing it by hand.

Depending how bad it is, it may need corrected by machine, but if you want to try a cheap option, then consider using Autogylm Super Resin Polish and seeing if that helps, but it will require a lot of elbow grease......but really you are wanting a fine polish....3M Ultrafina, Dodo Juice Lime Prime (not lite), Menzerna Final Finish.....the list could go on and on....

If you have any pics it would be appreciated to make a better judgement, also to help others out there to know what to look out for incase they suffer the same fate.

Thanks

Robert


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## foster2108 (Oct 22, 2004)

Definitely sounds like buffer swirls. I'd never let a body shop or dealer near my car with a machine polisher, it's only skilled detailers who seem to know how to use them (and me!) If your going to attempt to correct by hand, it's going to be hard work and the products Robtur mentioned are spot on. May be time to invest in a DA such as the Kestrel DAS-6 etc. I went down that route 4-5 years ago before moving up to a rotary last year and haven't looked back. You'll sort the wife's car out and move the finish on the TT up to the next level.


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## MrHooky (Oct 27, 2009)

Thanks for the responses guys. I've already got some Autoglym SRP so will have a go with that when I next get the chance. Another dollop of elbow grease required. I wouldn't say they're bad really, just noticed when the sun was fully beaming on the car. Under forecourt halogens you don't see anything. I hope the SRP works. It does a half decent job on my 6 year old TT. I'd go as far as say the paint on the TT is better than on the A5.

I'll try and get a pic of them before I take the SRP to them. Fingers crossed it will help remove them...

The majority of the time the car looks great and to be fair not even my wife minds when I pointed the marks out. Personally it hacks me off though - I knew it was a gamble to let them try to sort the paint out but the leasing company insisted it be done through Audi. I couldn't complain really as I've not had to pay anything.

Feels like I'm solving one problem to create another - very annoying...


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## Robtur (Jul 6, 2009)

Unfortunately Halogens never show them, nothing can substitute the sun 

The truth is people using a machine polisher really need to have proper training and not think quanitity over quality [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=argue.gif]


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## MrHooky (Oct 27, 2009)

Maybe a good thing then that the halogens don't show them as it would hack me off to see them each time I filled up with fuel!

Given it was on the rear flanks that had the clearkote surface scratches I think they've just gone overboard with the polisher and hence caused these trails. What actually is the 'trail' Is it just residue attached to the surface or actual markings on the clearkote? I hope I can get away with just going over the rear flanks with the SRP. Any other products recommended for perhaps dealing with it? The Klasse/Carlack AIO or perhaps stick to the SRP for this particular issue?

I did just go and look at the car again in today's daylight and you can't see a thing. Just need to polish away I guess, wait for a sunny day and hope they don't reappear.

I also appreciate using a machine polisher needs training. Personally I don't have the time nor would trust myself without the training so plan on having a paint enhancement done to the TT by a midlands based detailer in the summer&#8230;

Thanks again.


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## ahaydock (Sep 19, 2006)

I would go for SRP then wax for now until you get it Detailed. You could buy a Sonus SFX or German Applicator and use the more coarse side first working in areas of 1 ft sq, and work the polish well for say 2 mins. The flip the applicator and refine the finish by repeating the process.

The wax as normal. 2x layers of Collinite would be ideal but it really needs 24 hours between layers so I would do one, then maybe the next one after the next wash.

Remember SRP and Collinite would work well on Alloys


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## abz001 (Jun 15, 2008)

MrHooky said:


> Maybe a good thing then that the halogens don't show them as it would hack me off to see them each time I filled up with fuel!
> 
> Given it was on the rear flanks that had the clearkote surface scratches I think they've just gone overboard with the polisher and hence caused these trails. What actually is the 'trail' Is it just residue attached to the surface or actual markings on the clearkote? I hope I can get away with just going over the rear flanks with the SRP. Any other products recommended for perhaps dealing with it? The Klasse/Carlack AIO or perhaps stick to the SRP for this particular issue?
> 
> ...


Keep a eye on the forum, hopefully Prism Detailing will become a sponsor soon (waiting on feedback from Jae) which means we can offer you a discount on services and a percentage goes back into the club :mrgreen: We are fully mobile and will met your needs


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## MrHooky (Oct 27, 2009)

Thanks again folks. Lovely sunny day today and so the trails are there for all to see. Still just on the rear flank, and only noticed on the drivers side rear wing above and below filler cap so far.

I'm hoping my SRP, Megs foam applicator pad and some hard elbow grease gets them removed so thank for that advice. I've actually just ordered some finishkare 1000 so might go SRP, FK, then collinite to help the shine, although guessing it must be the hard work with the SRP in the 1st place which will hopefully get those trails removed.

Why are the dealers so hopeless? I'm so annoyed about this whole paintwork issue. Audi have been terrible at getting a good finish, yet you'd think they know what they're doing being a 'prestige' marque...


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## ahaydock (Sep 19, 2006)

If it were me I would just SRP then either go for 2x layers Collinite or 2x layers of FK1000P - there is little advantage to using both IMO.

Both are very durable, but the beauty of FK1000P is you can add a layer, wait 20 mins, buff off and repeat the process. Thus 2x layers in under an hour


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## MrHooky (Oct 27, 2009)

ahaydock said:


> Both are very durable, but the beauty of FK1000P is you can add a layer, wait 20 mins, buff off and repeat the process. Thus 2x layers in under an hour


Is FK1000P as easy to buff off as the collinite? I found I could do whole car in the coll then buff off without fear of it 'welding' on. Can I do the same with the FK then!?


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## SteveTDCi (Nov 10, 2009)

FK stuff is easy to remove, although I sometimes use a quick spritz of FK finish restorer to help.


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## ahaydock (Sep 19, 2006)

IME FK1000P is just as easy, if not easier than Collinite to remove.


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## Alan W (Oct 8, 2007)

Lots of good advice above and, as said, use FK1000P *or* Collinite but not both. They both provide long lasting protection (3 months plus) but the secret to easy removal is to apply *very* thinly. This doesn't compromise the durability and 2 coats will ensure full coverage.

It's the SRP that will remove the trails you mention and provide the shine so work it well and then work it again. The FK or Collinite is not abrasive and will add nothing to the finish only protection.

Alan W


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## MrHooky (Oct 27, 2009)

Just to add to this post I started, I had the chance to have a real go at the buffer trails by hand on Saturday with a Megs foam applicator - which has pretty much dissintegrated from the use and some AG Super Resin Polish! I am pleased with the results. I did a couple of applications (really working the polish hard) to each side of the car which is where the trails were most obvious. My arm nearly fell off which is always a good sign of effort put in!

Pleased to report that the trails seem to have gone. It did take a good few hours, plus I then finished off with one coat of collinite to help seal in and preserve the good work done. Fortunately the sun was out nice and bright on Sat and Sun as a good check to see whether they'd gone or not. Spun the car round and couldn't really see anything.

Here's my only question that remains. With the SRP - have I essentially just 'filled' the trails with the polish, or have I removed them permanently? When SRP works on cobwebbing I thought it was both a filler and a light abbrasive so hoping that I've managed to get rid of the horrid trails for good and don't have to go through the whole process again in a few months.

Thanks again for the advice. Car looks fantastic again. I would have taken pics but over night on Sat it must have rained and so the car is covered in a load of ash!


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## dooka (Apr 28, 2006)

MrHooky said:


> Maybe a good thing then that the halogens don't show them as it would hack me off to see them each time I filled up with fuel!


Petrol stations usually use Metal Haldite lights, which will show swirling and some marring/holgrams..


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## MrHooky (Oct 27, 2009)

dooka said:


> Petrol stations usually use Metal Haldite lights, which will show swirling and some marring/holgrams..


Sunlight was the one which really brought the trails up though to which I'm glad to say have disappeared following the SRP treatment. Let's just hope they don't come back.

I was ready to ring Audi yesterday if I didn't get good results although glad I didn't as they'd probably have just used the same guy again who would have done more damage than good.


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## dooka (Apr 28, 2006)

SRP will only really hide swirls using fillers, lots of fillers, it has very small cutting abilities, but via hand, you will be hard pushed to get them to correct, the swirls re-appear after a few washes.. The only way to truly get rid of swirls is through paint correction, which can be expensive depending on the state of the car..


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## ahaydock (Sep 19, 2006)

As above SRP maybe have taken the edge of the swirls and trailes but has more than likely filled them as it is filler heavy. As said a full machine polish will be the only way - I have heard of people splitting the cost of a detail with Audi/the garage etc when they have done a poor job - maybe worth a go...


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## MrHooky (Oct 27, 2009)

Well I think what I'll do is speak to the Audi chap that arranged for it to be done and get the details of the clown that did the machine polish. I'll at least register the fact that someone made a mess of it.

As for sharing the costs of a detail - No way. Before the car went in it had some very slight marks in the clearcoat on both rear flanks - hence why it went in. It was then machined by someone completely out of my control who did a crap job. I am in no way responsible for this. Audi should take full credit for the inexperienced person used. Just typing this had made me angry again. I'm going to rant at Audi again for the sake of it!

Anyway. not worth taking it down just yet as for now I have done a good job of masking the trails. I actually hope they don't come back as it's just painful having to speak to Audi salesmen who actually know nothing about detailing and looking after a car properly.

Fingers cross the SRP's very slight polishing ability has got rid of the trails. Only a week since I've done it but so far so good!


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## ahaydock (Sep 19, 2006)

I would just kick off and get them to cover a pro detailers cost - maybe try Audi UK CS...


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## MrHooky (Oct 27, 2009)

ahaydock said:


> I would just kick off and get them to cover a pro detailers cost - maybe try Audi UK CS...


Ahaydock - I agree and I've heard back from the Audi dealer today. Thing is I've tried not to kick off at the guy who I'm dealing with at Audi as he's been very helpful and it's not his fault. Audi Tamworth didn't even supply the car although hats off to the guy helping me out. Ideally I want to meet the guy/company who did the polishing and point out there incompetence.

Car is going in next Wednesday to have the work remedied by the outfit who originally did the polish. I thought I'd at least give them the chance to remedy the mistake that they've made. Audi have paid this chap to come in and sort the car, hence they've rung him up and apparently he's keen to come back and fix. Hopefully the mention of 'buffer trails' should make him realise he's made a mistake, so he'll hopefully sort it this time round.

If he doesn't get rid of them I will however kick off and get Audi (whether that be through Audi CS or not) to get someone who is more reputable to do the work.

Despite my hard efforts with the Autoglym SRP last weekend and a coat of Collinite I can still see a hint of the trails after this weekend's wash.

I have a question - to at least highlight the trails left I was hoping to undo the hard work done last weekend with the SRP. If I was to do a pre wash soak with some diluted Virosol (which is known to lift wax and I presume polish also) would it help to show these trails up again? I know it sounds backwards but I want to be able to turn up next Wed at Audi and show them the buffer trails in all their glory.


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## ahaydock (Sep 19, 2006)

Yep I'd strip that SRP off to remove any fillers so they can see it.

My only concern would be that they remove too much paint when trying to rectify the problem - my local stealer messed up debadging my A3 then I asked them to buff out the marks - they didn't as they don't know how to use a machine polisher. However they kindly left me with holograms and paint levels that didn't leave much for correction - it was almost below 80 microns - which is not good!


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## MrHooky (Oct 27, 2009)

ahaydock said:


> My only concern would be that they remove too much paint when trying to rectify the problem - my local stealer messed up debadging my A3 then I asked them to buff out the marks - they didn't as they don't know how to use a machine polisher. However they kindly left me with holograms and paint levels that didn't leave much for correction - it was almost below 80 microns - which is not good!


Well I'll strip off the SRP and collinite at the weekend then to expose those trails then. Presumably to remove the trails they should just be using a low cutting polish so hopefully shoudn't remove too much paint?

I'll try and ask the Audi dealer to make sure they don't take too much paint away. Better still I might even try and get the guy who's doing the work to call me before he takes the polisher to the car for a 2nd time.

I did have the paint depths checked a couple of months back before the 1st polish attempt and they were nice and high so unless they managed to strip half the paint away last time I should be OK.

How much does a half descent paint depth measurer cost? Might be worth investing in one!


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## ahaydock (Sep 19, 2006)

MrHooky said:


> ahaydock said:
> 
> 
> > My only concern would be that they remove too much paint when trying to rectify the problem - my local stealer messed up debadging my A3 then I asked them to buff out the marks - they didn't as they don't know how to use a machine polisher. However they kindly left me with holograms and paint levels that didn't leave much for correction - it was almost below 80 microns - which is not good!
> ...


Last time I looked £100-£150 - maybe try eBay for a 2nd hand one...


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