# TMC for Audi Navigation System



## ddycool (Dec 9, 2003)

I have a 2003 TT Coupe (225) fitted with the Audi Navigation System.

Page 29 of the operating instructions refers to Dynamic Navigation using TMC. It says that TMC is not yet available in the UK.

Earlier this year TMC became available in the UK and is operated by ITIS Holdings (www.itisholdings-info.co.uk) and they advised me to buy a TMC enabled navigation disk from TeleAtlas, which I have now done.

I still cannot activate the TMC facility on the navigation system and need help!

Can anyone tell me whether I need to buy additional equipment to do this (such as a TMC Tuner box) and whether these are available yet in the UK.

My Audi dealer and Audi (UK) have been unable to advise me.

Many Thanks

???


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## Monique (Jun 11, 2002)

Hoi m8,

Welcome to the madhouse.

You are getting many peeps to read your about your prob but getting no help.

The reason is that few TT's have the factory nav system. The preferred option is a PDa with Tom Tom 2.

BTW, I have neither.


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

Sorry for my ignorance - What is TMC? I have specced the Audi SatNav (iPaq/TomTom way too slow when I saw it) so would be interested.


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

TMC links up with the blue detectors you see at the side of the roads and automatically diverts you around road works and heavy traffic. I would imagine your TT would of come with the TMC sat nav disc if it had this fitted so makes me think you won't have the TMC reciever fitted I know you can buy the recievers seperatly for Aftermarket Sat Nav but not sure about the Audi one although they would beable to tell you this.
I would contact Audi CS and ask them if you car has this fitted they should beable to tell from the build spec ect.
Jonah


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## Dr_Parmar (May 10, 2002)

interesting, i have a 2003 model with audi sat nav and would love to have TMC enabled.. i dont think my disc is TMC enabled, and am pretty sure you'll need a seperate TMC reciever, whether or not its possible to link it upto the sat nav, i dunnoo ???


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

There are two issues here. First, has been mentioned, if the TT has a TMC receiver or not.

Second is the software issue.... in my recent research it turns out quite a lot of cars (e.g. Omega, Laguna etc.) have all the hardware required, it's just that the OEM version of the software that is supplied doesn't support TMC, yet. If you go direct to the manufacturer and buy the generic disc (so you'll loose say, the dealer list!) many owners have found TMC start working.

Not saying this is the case on the TT as I don't know if the hardware is in place, but just be aware, there could be two aspects to getting it working!


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## ashleyeagles (Nov 21, 2003)

look on ebay in Germany - they have just about everything for audi navigation needs including tmc units!

http://www.ebay.de


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

I have exactly the same question about TMC and here's what I've found out (for the TT's factory-fitted satnav)

First, you have to have the 'DX' version of the system (Blaupunkt TravelPilot DX); this is fitted to TTs built after mid 2001). The older non-DX system definitely does not support TMC.

Second, you have to have the 'TMC'-enabled CD. The CDs you can buy from an Audi dealer (and the CD that was in your car from new) don't have this. You have to buy the CD from TeleAtlas directly (www.navshop.com). Note TeleAtlas do two CDs; the basic one without TMC for about Â£100, and the TMC version for Â£155 (usefully, the dearer CD also now includes postcodes, apparently, which should be easier than town and street names).

The next bit is unclear. TeleAtlas claim that you can pick up TMC transmissions nationwide on Classic FM. Audi UK advised me that in fact TMC (or at least the flavour of TMC that the DX system can use) is only transmitted by Capital FM in the London area. Contractual and licensing issues apparently. Can anyone with any other car/satnav system confirm whether they've got TMC working nationwide?

Finally, my local Audi dealer said that UK-spec TTs do not have the satnav system connected to the radio (which is essential for TMC to work) - apparently Audi purposely disconnect it at the factory for UK models. However, Audi UK said the exact opposite: that UK-spec TTs DO have all the necessary connections and hardware for TMC to work, and all I need is the new TeleAtlas CD. They were very definite about this. Who should I believe?

I'm tempted to take the plunge and buy the CD and hope it works (at least if I buy it on the net I've got seven days to return it . But has anyone yet done this and can confirm either way?


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## paulb (May 6, 2002)

> The next bit is unclear. Â TeleAtlas claim that you can pick up TMC transmissions nationwide on Classic FM. Â Audi UK advised me that in fact TMC (or at least the flavour of TMC that the DX system can use) is only transmitted by Capital FM in the London area. Â Contractual and licensing issues apparently. Â Can anyone with any other car/satnav system confirm whether they've got TMC working nationwide?


TMC is transmitted on Classic and covers large parts of the country. I've had it working on my Alpine system in the Midlands, Yorkshire, East Anglia and the South East.


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

A stupid question (sorry) - but does that mean that you have to have radio tuned to Classic FM in order to pick up the TMC stuff?

(And if so - what would happen if you put a CD in, but radio was still tuned to Classic?)


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

> Finally, my local Audi dealer said that UK-spec TTs do not have the satnav system connected to the radio (which is essential for TMC to work) - apparently Audi purposely disconnect it at the factory for UK models. Â However, Audi UK said the exact opposite: that UK-spec TTs DO have all the necessary connections and hardware for TMC to work, and all I need is the new TeleAtlas CD. Â They were very definite about this. Â Who should I believe?


Thats the bit that confuses me... does the factory fit SatNav have the standard radio HU or a different one? If it is the standard HU I dont see how it can be connected, there are no NAV or Data outputs from the radio, only NAV audio inputs. This implies that there must be a seperate tuner to pick up the FM broadcasts...


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## paulb (May 6, 2002)

My system has a separate TMC receiver.

[blatent plug mode] It's for sale too[/blatent plug mode]


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

You don't have to have the radio tuned to Classic. You set the radio station to use in the satnav system, it seems (according to the satnav manual) to be independent of what the radio/CD player is doing.

Yes, I agree, the satnav must use a separate tuner, not the headunit (which would agree with the above paragraph). Whether that is built-in to the satnav unit or external I don't know. Doesn't affect the question though; Audi dealer says the TT doesn't have it, Audi UK says the TT does have it!?!?!?!?


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

AH... light begins to dawn.... does the manual say u have use the standard radio HU to set the SatNav tuner up... and if so how do you get to the setting info?

Which radio HU do you have fitted?


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

The satnav manual makes no reference to the headunit, another reason why I think they're probably separate. FWIW I have the standard Audi radio.

You set the satnav radio station using the satnav controls, just the same way you control the rest of the satnav functions. It's on one of the setup/options screens. You only see the option though if you have a TMC-enabled CD, I believe. I think when I tried it, the option just didn't appear, which is why I wondered if my satnav unit even supports it, or if it's just cos I have the wrong/old CD.


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

right... then I think almost 100% you have to have a separate tuner and the dealers are confused by the use of the term 'radio' - one is using it for the 'tuner' and the other for the standard HU and audio connection.

The SatNav DOES connect to the HU but only for sound output not for TMC data. Â So possibilities are:

1/ No TMC tuner installed
2/ TMC Tuner installed but not connected
3/ TMC tuner installed/connected but needs to be 'enabled' by VAGCOM or similar
4/ All there, just needs CD

i'd be surprised at 2, makes no sense to install but not connect (mind u, did Audi ever make sense?)... so my money's on 1/, 3/ or 4/.... if 3/ then someone with VAGCOM may be able to advise... 4/... well try the CD and see... just sounds too easy to me


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## ddycool (Dec 9, 2003)

> The SatNav DOES connect to the HU but only for sound output not for TMC data. Â So possibilities are:
> 
> 1/ No TMC tuner installed
> 2/ TMC Tuner installed but not connected
> ...


I have the TMC enabled disk & I can confirm that the TMC menus still do not appear


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

Hmmmm...sounds like somehting missing? Others seem to have it working - see here http://forums.rs246.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=31069&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Maybe one of you should contact one of these guys and see what SatNav system they have installed and where they sourced car from....


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

I just got my V6 the other day and haven't messed with SatNav much, but I got the new 2004 DX Disc with it. The box and CD show no mention of TMC. Having said this I seem to remember something in the menu about "traffic" but can't be sure (there's a lot ot take in and I haven't had the time). I will try and confirm it as I will be using the car today (Grin).


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

A little more research (well can't work all day now can I  ) threw up this...

http://www.tvwiz.net/navigation/programming.html

which clearly shows you have to enable TMC with VAGCOM, it is normally disabled


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

re: IrvingTT

Thanks for the pointer to that article! I searched the web and couldn't find anything so useful! I've put the TMC CD in, and no, the TMC options don't appear. So, does anyone near Reading (Berkshire) have a VAG-COM and want to assist me in a little experiment?  (Although I'm concerned that the article refers to the Nav-Plus system, which is different to the TT's system, so maybe the codes won't be the same?)

re: Matthew

There are two types of CD: one with TMC, one without. The TMC disc is more expensive, as TeleAtlas have to pay a royalty to Itis, the company that runs TMC in the UK. The only CD that Audi supply (and hence the CD that comes with the car when new) is the non-TMC version. You can only buy the TMC version direct from TeleAtlas.

Note 1: TeleAtlas's website has a bug, so you can't buy online; however their telephone sales were very efficient, 020 8230 3188 (which actually transfer you to their English-speaking sales centre in Holland).

Note 2: My original CD from Audi has an option for listing Audi service centres, so I assumed TeleAtlas made a special Audi version of the CD, and that the generic CDs direct from TeleAtlas wouldn't have this. However, I put in the new CD, and it still lists Audi service centres (but no others). From talking to TeleAtlas, it seems that all their CDs have most/all service centres for most manufacturers. It's just that Audi 'tweak' the Blaupunkt system to only display the Audi ones! So the CD that Audi will sell you for Â£117.50 is identical to the one you can buy from TeleAtlas for Â£89 (plus about Â£8 p&p), there are no Audi-specific additions on the CDs you get from Audi.

Another thing I've found out. TMC in the UK works on the motorway network and some parts of the A road network, and is being expanded all the time. The TMC CDs from TeleAtlas include the full TMC coverage. However, TMC in the Blaupunkt units factory-fitted to Audis will only work, in the UK at least, on motorways. A software update is required from Blaupunkt to enable the rest of the UK TMC stuff to work. Why that should be, I don't know. It's just what TeleAtlas told me. They have apparently asked Blaupunkt to do this, and when it happens, the new software will be included on future TeleAtlas CDs.

Whether this restriction also exists on after-market Blaupunkt satnav systems, or other makes, I don't know.

Scott


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## ddycool (Dec 9, 2003)

> A little more research (well can't work all day now can I  ) threw up this...
> 
> http://www.tvwiz.net/navigation/programming.html
> 
> which clearly shows you have to enable TMC with VAGCOM, it is normally disabled


Armed with this info I contacted my dealer who agreed to attempt to enable TMC on my system. (I already have the TMC enabled disk)

Sure enough,TMC was enabled exactly as per the Nav-plus system. At this point I was getting excited (how sad is that?)

The TMC menus appeared and I went into the traffic menu to select the TMC option - as per the instruction manual. I followed the instructions precisely, but when I attempted to search for a TMC channel I got the following message:

ERROR OCCURRED! SOURCE RADIO FAULTY

This message also displays each time I boot-up the Navigation System, but the system still operates as it did originally (ie without TMC)

I don't think that my radio is faulty (it is under warranty anyway) My Dealer thinks that maybe UK spec cars have a different spec radio to the German cars - does anyone have any info on this?

We decided to leave TMC enabled anyway but deselected it from the traffic menu so that the error message doesn't display & try to obtain further info.

One step forwards .......


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

ddycool, that's good news, at least partially!

As per previous posts, it seems the satnav doesn't use the radio tuner... in as much as the manual says you can have the radio tuned to any station without affecting the TMC station set in the satnav, plus other posters have observed that there is no output signal from the radio to the satnav.

So it seems the TravelPilot DX must have its own tuner built-in. I doubt very much that the headunit matters in the slightest, so it shouldn't be relevant whether it's the same unit fitted in UK as in Germany.

At this point I start to worry that Audi purposely disable the satnav tuner permanently on cars bound for the UK, for no good reason, sigh. I have had extensive conversations with TeleAtlas this week, who have their own test systems and assure me that the TMC stuff does work on their TravelPilot DX systems, and they also have confirmation that it does work on Audis in UK (although they couldn't confirm anything specific about TTs).

I have some more investigations to make tomorrow; maybe between us we'll solve it


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

Another question... while looking for solutions to the TMC problem, I discovered that if you press the INFO and RETURN buttons at the same time, it takes you to a hidden setup screen. One of the options on this screen is 'calibration' that lets you set two numbers. The two numbers in my case are 7.00 and 1927. Obviously I wasn't stupid enough to change them, but does anyone know what they might be? The latter looks uncannily like the tyre circumference in millimetres. Are there any other hidden menus or options in the satnav apart from this one?


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

A bit more progress, but possibly not good news.

I asked the TMC question on the 'audinav' yahoo forum. The reply there said that the TMC only works if you have the Symphony radio, as that has the second tuner needed by TMC.

But two things that are undisputed facts:
- We know that TMC works on TTs in Germany (and always has done)
- We know that the Symphony radio doesn't physically fit in the TT, you can only choose the Concert or Chorus (and I've just checked the German TT spec to confirm this)

So, either the TravelPilot DX does have a built-in tuner, or German TTs have an additional tuner hidden away in the car somewhere connected to the TravelPilot, and used solely for TMC. If the latter, then I'm beginning to think, unfortunately, that Audi simply don't fit this to UK cars.

Another option to try: ddycool, did you have your radio tuned to Classic FM while you were trying to test the TMC? Maybe the satnav is connected to the radio, but because there isn't an additional tuner, perhaps the manual is wrong, and you DO have to tune the radio manually to the station transmitting the TMC signal. Probaby worth trying...


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

More...

I spoke to Blaupunkt directly. They have confirmed that an additional TMC Tuner Box is needed, that plugs into the main satnav box and provides the radio signal. This is fitted as standard to Audis in countries that have TMC, but wasn't fitted to UK cars.

That annoys me a bit, as we paid Audi the same price in the UK for the satnav system as the Germans pay, but they only put in half the system! But anyway...

The TMC Tuner Box should be available from Audi as a spare part. My dealer is currently checking if they can get them in UK, and how much it will cost.

Unfortunately, you can't buy this part direct from Blaupunkt; they only sell spares for their after-market systems - the Blaupunkt systems in Audis are apparently bespoke to Audi, and Blaupunkt don't support them, you have to go through Audi.

Why is nothing ever easy with an Audi? :


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

Seems the French have the same problem... Google search for "TMC Audi tuner" threw up this (translated)
http://translate.google.com/transla...?q=tmc+tuner+audi&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

The spare tuner for the Blaupunkt Travel-DX70 is 299 euro plus 25 for the cable, trade price in Belgium. Can't imagine that this unit would differ from the one fitted by Audi as the only difference between Audi units and Blaupunkt standard is faceplate design and software... the hardware is pretty much identical...


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## ddycool (Dec 9, 2003)

> I spoke to Blaupunkt directly. Â They have confirmed that an additional TMC Tuner Box is needed, that plugs into the main satnav box and provides the radio signal. Â This is fitted as standard to Audis in countries that have TMC, but wasn't fitted to UK cars.


This seems logical - my error massage may refer to the TMC tuner rather than my car radio.

I have been unable to locate a TMC tuner box specifically for the TT, however the VAG part number should be 8N8919894 or 8N8919895 (or similar)

Incidentally I have tried all combinations of Radio on/off, Classic FM on/off, TP on/off, RDS on/off, Local set/unset - nothing seems to make any difference.

???


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## ddycool (Dec 9, 2003)

> The spare tuner for the Blaupunkt Travel-DX70 is 299 euro plus 25 for the cable, trade price in Belgium. Â Can't imagine that this unit would differ from the one fitted by Audi as the only difference between Audi units and Blaupunkt standard is faceplate design and software... the hardware is pretty much identical...


Different Audi models have different part nos. for TMC tuner boxes!


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

Understood...but the diifferent part no's could refer to the same part but with different language labels on the outside... or one with and without the cable assembly, or any combination of things... I can't see why they would have multiple TMC tuner types tho... but then as was said, nothing is easy with Audi...

If I had spec'd the factory fit sat nav I'd be really pissed off if I only got 1/2 the kit! Hope you guys come up with a cost-effective answer...


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

Yes, I too wondered about just buying and fitting the standard Blaupunkt TMC box - eg http://www.blaupunkt.co.uk/0612001342_main.asp

I should be able to confirm on Monday (from A Man Who Knows) if this will work in the TT. I suspect the different Audi part numbers are for different 'packages' with different mounting brackets, cable lengths, etc, but that the main unit is the same. I hope!

I assume the Blaupunkt offering comes with, or one can easily obtain, the cables to connect it to the main satnav unit. The only issues then are (a) a power connection for it and (b) a connection to the radio aerial - note the TMC box has a pass-through connection for the aerial feed to continue to the main radio. I'm hoping that the 'standard' TT wiring is the same on UK and German cars, so there should hopefully be suitable connectors near the satnav unit. Will have to raise the enthusiasm to remove the trim between seats and boot to check...

Previous question still applies... anyone near central Berkshire (or anywhere else a sensible distance for me to travel!) with a VAG-COM willing to assist me for a few minutes please, in return for beer of course!


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

Just out of interest, may be of no help at all.

Was playing with the sat nav in my A4 yesterday, and went into the Route Options menu.

Or tried to.

Got a message 'changeing route options is only possible WITHOUT TMC / TCS' (whatever TCS is).

But I don't have TMC (or at least, I don't have a TMC CD), but it still wouldn't then let me do anything except go back to the main menu....

Not that I care my my behalf - I'm driving as much as possible to get rif og the thing, but hope it may help you guys?


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

If you have TMC activated, it will always use 'fast route' (rather than short route) and will use any road, so you can't choose not to use motorways, or toll roads, etc.

So even though you don't have a TMC CD, presumably you still have the TMC menu options (the A4 has the Nav+ system I think, which it appears always has TMC), and you have "Dynamisation" (? I think that's what it's called) turned ON. You need to turn this OFF, you should then be able to change the routing options.

HTH


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

> If you have TMC activated, it will always use 'fast route' (rather than short route) and will use any road, so you can't choose not to use motorways, or toll roads, etc.
> 
> So even though you don't have a TMC CD, presumably you still have the TMC menu options (the A4 has the Nav+ system I think, which it appears always has TMC), and you have "Dynamisation" (? I think that's what it's called) turned ON. Â You need to turn this OFF, you should then be able to change the routing options.
> 
> HTH


ok.....
in order:
It does always choose the fast route - I've yet (2 yrs later) to find out how to change this.
Can't find a way to turn TMC off - although Dynamism does ring a bell.
Will try to find it (that's RTFM then I guess )
Have no real need to change routing (I tend to need the fastest, not shortest - time management is not my strongest skill.... :-[), but thought I'd chuck it in incase it helped at all.

Cheers for the info tho


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## ddycool (Dec 9, 2003)

> I should be able to confirm on Monday (from A Man Who Knows) if this will work in the TT. Â I suspect the different Audi part numbers are for different 'packages' with different mounting brackets, cable lengths, etc, but that the main unit is the same. Â I hope!


Check this out also

https://sslrelay.com/s74326199.oneandon ... ffeddef8e3

Select product search & search for TMC


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## ddycool (Dec 9, 2003)

Oh, and another thing - page 29 of the Navigation Manual refers to TMC with a qualifying note

"With additional equipment"

The additional equipment is presumably a TMC tuner box!


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

>> with additional equipment

Interesting, my (slightly older) satnav manual doesn't say that, they must have updated it. But it's useful, at least they are now explicitly suggesting it is possible to add this equipment to a UK spec car.

>> 8N8919894 or 8N8919895

Curious where you found these two particular part numbers, and what they refer to? Yes, I saw the website you mention and there are a lot of TMC tuner boxes available! Wondering why you quoted the above two part numbers rather than any others?


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## ddycool (Dec 9, 2003)

The first 3 digits or the part number refer to the model - (8N8 is the TT Coupe) - the rest of the part number is lifted from the part numbers of other TMC Tuner Boxes!

(Apparently this is how the VAG part numbers are constructed)


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2004)

I _may_ be the first person in the UK to have had TMC wotking on their Audi Nav system - I ordered the TMC disc the day before it was available publicly.

I have an RS6 with Nav+ system installed as standard. I can confirm that a separate tuner head is used for the TMC reception, so you don't need to tune to any specific station on the audio side in order to have TMC working. My RS6 came with the TMC tuner installed, as standard.

I just loaded the new disc, and the TMC system came up and started working.

There are two different versions of the TeleAtlas 2004 discs - one with and one without TMC. AFAIAA, there is no other difference in the discs - the postcode destination entry is available on 2003 discs, and later (although 2003/4 disc added an extra character to the PC search). eg 2003 would only allow RG6, 2003/4 and later will allow RG6_4.

Also, I am on the outskirts of Reading, and have VAG-COM - anyone who needs access to a VAG-COM is free to contact me. However, I won't be making a habit of visiting the TT forum - best to PM me on either RS246 or TyreSmoke (I use the same name on all boards!).


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

The Nav+ system has always, as far as I've been able to work out, had TMC built-in, as it always comes 'packaged' with a twin-tuner radio. Although Audi refer to both their systems (the basic 'Nav' as fitted to the TT and the 'Nav+ as fitted to everything else) as 'TravelPilot DX' that only really refers to the underlying navigation computer, the two systems have a lot of differences.

And while I'm here, latest to report on the TT front is that there is, unfortunately, no handy aerial connection ready-wired into the TT for the TMC unit. I've just been outside in the rain ripping my car apart trying to find it.

Looks like a separate aerial will be needed... any advice on an aerial I can hide _inside_ the car somewhere and still get good enough reception? There's enough space to mount it vertically if it's short, or horizontally otherwise. My concern is whether the surrounding metal bodywork would shield it too much.

The satnav unit itself has two unused connectors. My suspicion is that one is a power connector for the TMC box, and the other is the data connector. I am going to try and confirm direct with Blaupunkt tomorrow.

I'm rapidly losing enthusiasm for the whole idea though...!


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Keep going Scott - I'm sure there are a couple of us who would be interested in the answer - you haven't gone for buying the CD and trying it out then?

Clive


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

Yes, I will definitely post the final answer here, when I find it!

Further info, for anyone who's interested.

Blaupunkt have confirmed that they supply Audi with only ONE type of TMC unit. They have no idea why Audi then have about fifty different part numbers for that unit, or charge wildly different prices for them.

However, there is no Audi part number for a TMC unit for a TT (despite the fact that we know full well such a part exists, and the satnav manual even makes reference to it). I am still trying to find out the differences, if any, in all the Audi parts and hence whether any of the other part numbers will suffice.

Blaupunkt UK are also pretty certain that the part they supply Audi is identical hardware to the TMC unit they sell directly: they look identical in every respect - probably only an obscure engineer at the factory in Germany would know if there really is any difference!). However, they refused to guarantee their own unit would work in an Audi's factory-fitted satnav, simply because they haven't actually ever seen this combination in use. They did mention possible software differences, but that's about it.

Physically connecting the TMC unit to the satnav unit is easy, I have confirmation that the TMC unit comes with the necessary lead and plugs straight in - the connector on the Audi-badged TravelPilot DX is identical to the Blaupunkt-badged version. However, connecting up an aerial is a bit of a pain; there is no easy way to tap into the existing aerial wire to the radio (and I'm not sure I'd want to...) so I'm looking at a separate aerial that needs to be hidden somewhere in the car, without losing all its signal through being shielded by the bodywork. *Any suggestions on this welcome.*

I have found a friendly Blaupunkt dealer who is trying to find out more for me about the TMC unit. I also found an unfriendly Blaupunkt dealer who told me to go away, he wasn't interested in helping solve this. If the friendly dealer sorts this out I'll post his name in case anyone else wants to buy a TMC unit from him. Unfriendly dealers take note of the business you've just lost!

Scott


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

Oh and yes, I have the TMC CD, and no, it didn't "just work" unfortunately. I need to have words with TeleAtlas to change their advertising, as they claim it will work with the factory-fitted system in a TT.


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

Scott,

I have asked about this issue with the guy who supplied me the Blaupunkt connectors for the SatNav mod I made - runs a car audio place and sells the Blaupunkt gear and seems to be v knowledgable... he hasn't seen the Audi version of the kit but is doing some digging.... he did immediately suggest without pushing that there should be no reason the standard TMC head should work as B only make the one...

Also the Audi has a boosted aerial with power fed up the centre core to the aerial itself... it is possible to get a splitter that supports this apparently... is a Y-lead that the existing aerial lead plugs into and then plugs into the HU and a flylead goes off to the TMC box


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

IrvingTT... thanks, any help your Blaupunkt/audio chap can offer could be useful... whereabouts is he, might be worth me paying a visit.

My latest progress is that I've now had the satnav 'VAGCOM-ed' to activate the TMC (many thanks to PeterB who posted earlier this topic), with the same results as ddycool: the menu options appear, so my satnav definitely supports TMC, it just complains there's no radio source, as expected.

Also, I have an Audi part number: *8E0 057 593*. This might be a red herring, but Audi list it as a "Tuner" for the TT's satnav system, so it sounds promising. Unfortunately the data I had access to didn't go as far as clarifying whether it's the TMC tuner or something completely different... *If anyone has access to Audi's parts systems and could check out this part number for me please?*

Interestingly, the official Audi parts catalogue shows a TMC tuner box for the A3 with the in-dash satnav system (not the colour screen version) - ie as close to the TT's system as we're going to get. But there is no part number for it, sigh.

All (!) I need now is to find a TMC tuner to try it out... unfortunately no Blaupunkt dealers stock them, and aren't willing to get one in on an "I'll only buy it if it works" basis. Understandable I s'pose. I shall persevere...


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

Forget part number in previous post... I've found out it's a tuner for satellite radio broadcasts. Nothing to do with satellite navigation. Oh well.


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## ddycool (Dec 9, 2003)

> All (!) I need now is to find a TMC tuner to try it out... unfortunately no Blaupunkt dealers stock them, and aren't willing to get one in on an "I'll only buy it if it works" basis. Â Understandable I s'pose. Â I shall persevere...


Would any forum members care to "underwrite" the risk of purchasing a TMC box for ScottM's test, knowing that it may or may not work?

If there is enough interest, what I had in mind is to split the cost between interested parties (the more the merrier) and refund if the unit works!

Â£200 or so (to be confirmed) split between 10 people would considerably lower the financial risk!

...... Â just an idea! Â Â Â ??? Â Â ??? Â Â ???

I'm in for one!


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

Haha, interesting idea, but I'm still pursuing a couple of avenues to try and get a 'trial' with a TMC tuner, so please don't all send me your money just yet!

Although I read something earlier that made me think all TMC tuners are the same anyway, full stop. It implied there is a 'standard' TMC data stream that a TMC tuner emits, so any manufacturer's TMC tuner should work with anyone's satnav unit. Has anyone else heard anything similar?

Maybe I'll just go and buy a BMW instead; they come with DVD satnav systems, proper TMC coverage (motorways and A roads - Audi system is just motorways), and built-in TrafficMaster with a lifetime subscription. Audi is badly lagging behind the times!


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## Newbie123 (Nov 25, 2002)

> Maybe I'll just go and buy a BMW instead; they come with DVD satnav systems, proper TMC coverage (motorways and A roads - Audi system is just motorways), and built-in TrafficMaster with a lifetime subscription. Â Audi is badly lagging behind the times!


Not anymore ;D I've just added this to my A3 order. Mmmmm integrated MP3 ;D

http://www.audi.co.uk/company/pressrelease.jsp?id=10451&backPage=presscentre


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

And does it have TMC?



> Not anymore Â ;D I've just added this to my A3 order. Mmmmm integrated MP3 Â ;D
> 
> http://www.audi.co.uk/company/pressrelease.jsp?id=10451&backPage=presscentre


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## Newbie123 (Nov 25, 2002)

Don't know as of yet.

My dealership called the Audi HQ sales office to get more detailed info but they didn't even know it had become an option ??? :.

Should have more info next week.

I wonder if ScoTTy has any info on this?


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

IIRC (it's posted here somewhere) this was the plus version that wasn't out straight away but would be coming later.

(I can currently only just focus so a search is out of the question...may be tomottow)


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

Update, for anyone waiting on this with baited breath...

I was having a productive discussion with Blaupunkt direct. They were going to let me try a 'demo' TMC unit to see it if worked. However, then a pointy-haired Dilbertesque manager became involved, and stopped the whole thing. He said that Blaupunkt do not at this time wish to endorse or promote the use of TMC in UK. I said I wasn't asking them to endorse it, just to help me find out if it would work. Reply was that offering me any help at all was equivalent to actively promoting the product.

Of course, what they're really worried about is the fact that currently Blaupunkt satnav units offer inferior TMC functionality to all other makes... they don't want people using it and finding out, thus giving them a bad name in the long term, until they've fixed the problem. I pointed out I knew all this already and didn't care, just wanted to know if it would work at all. They were going to go away and reconsider, but as I haven't heard from them in a fortnight now I assume they haven't changed their minds.

But the good news is I have found another person/company who is very knowledgeable and willing to help. With their assistance I should either have a working TMC unit by this time next week, or be able to confirm that it isn't going to work. More details soon...


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Thanks for keeping up the effort - I'm certainly interested to see the result!


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## ddycool (Dec 9, 2003)

mmm - very interesting!

I too have been trying to "acquire" a Blaupunkt TMC box for evaluation.

This is a quote from an email received from my local Blaupunkt Sat Nav dealer: Â

"We are indeed a Blaupunkt dealer and would be happy to supply you in normal circumstances.

However, I must in this case decline to quote for TMC for use in the UK at present since the quality of service offered by the system is appalling right now.

I hope this will be rectified in the future as we move forwards but just for the moment I would advise that you hold fire. I have supplied a number of TMC systems and been very dissappointed with the results."

This seems to be consistent with what ScoTT has been told.

I, also, am still determined to get to the heart of the problem.


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

Another update...

I now have a TMC tuner and have tried various wiring combinations based on the info I've been able to amass so far. Haven't got it working yet, but there is now a delay (about ten seconds) before the 'TMC Error' appears on the satnav display, which I suppose is 'progress' of sorts. I have a few thoughts about why that's happening and hence some more tests to do.

But if anyone else also looking into this has come across any more information about the required connections, etc, or has contact details for anyone who has got it working, please let me know.

Also, does anyone know whether the TMC will still give the error if it is correctly connected but does not have an aerial attached? I've been assuming thus far that once I connect it properly the error will go away, it just won't show any TMC messages, or list TMC-enabled stations, without an aerial plugged in. But maybe that's a wrong assumption?

More later,
Scott


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

An important development...

I now have official Audi documentation that confirms the TT's satnav unit DOES support TMC.  However, because it isn't offered as an option on the TT, none of the TT wiring diagrams show how to connect the unit.   

But... the wiring diagrams for any Audi model that has the Symphony radio (either standard or as an option) should give me the info I need.

So... does anyone here please have the Bentley manual (or similar) for an Audi A4, A6, etc, (and possibly the A3?) and would be willing to look up a wiring diagram for me?

Please reply here or send me a message and I'll explain which diagram I need you to check.

(Actually, I'm 99% certain and will try some more tests at the weekend, but being able to confirm first from the wiring diagrams could help save some time).

Thanks!
Scott


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Scott, did you ever get hold of a TMC enabled disc?


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

The TMC disc was the first thing I bought... after Audi UK assured me that TMC would automatically work in a TT with the factory-fitted satnav! :-/

Of course it didn't, so since then I've been amassing the required additional parts, and all (!) I need to do is sort out the wiring connections. Hence the previous post, although even if no-one responds to that I have some more experiments to try this weekend that will hopefully resolve this.

(Last weekend's efforts failed and I was a bit demoralised, but having now had definite confirmation from Audi that it can be made to work I am spurred on...)


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

ScoTT

got an A4 - but no Bentley stuff :-/

Don't *think* there are any wiring diags in the std manuals, but I'll pop down to the car later and dig em out just in case....


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

As suspected, no wiring diags, sorry!


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

Thanks for looking anyway!

Anyone else with a Bentley workshop manual for an A3/A4/A6 who can spare a few minutes to look something up for me?

Thanks,
Scott


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

Well I've spent the last four months looking at this, researching info from all corners of the earth, and trying connecting things together more ways than I thought possible, and my disappointed conclusion is:

TMC cannot be made to work with the factory-fit satnav in the TT

More specifically:
The 'DX' version of the satnav unit, fitted to TTs since mid-2001, does support TMC. But it needs a separate TMC tuner to supply the TMC data, via the CAN bus. There are two possibilities for the TMC tuner. The Symphony radio has one, but this does not fit in the TT. So the other option is a standalone TMC tuner. Audi make one of these, but only normally fit it with the 'Nav+' system (the satnav with the colour screen). I have been trying to make this work with the TT's satnav (which I'll just call 'Nav' to distinguish from 'Nav+'). As both the TT's satnav and the Nav+ are based on the Blaupunkt TravelPilot DX, this seemed a reasonable thing to try.

However it doesn't work. I have been unable to 100% confirm the facts why, but the following is most probably the correct explanation and fits all the evidence (I won't bore you with all the details of what I've found out and the test I've tried).

Both Nav+ and Nav have a CAN bus. However, they send different data over their CAN buses. The TMC tuner, designed for Nav+, sends the TMC data using the Nav+ flavour of CAN, which the Nav can't understand. _(In fact, the TMC tuner is actually called a 'CAN gateway' by Audi, because it has a second set of CAN connections that convert the Nav+ CAN data so a Nav+ can use the instrument cluster display. A Nav+ without the TMC tuner can't use the car's built-in display, whereas the CAN data sent by the Nav can control the instrument cluster display directly)._ The type of TMC CAN data required by the TT's Nav is the TMC CAN data output by the Symphony radio... which is frustrating as that radio won't fit in the car. And (for completeness) the second set of CAN outputs on the TMC tuner, which the Nav does understand, don't carry the TMC data. Well done Audi, a lot of thought went into those design decisions obviously...

All I need to complete the picture is to find someone with a Nav (not a Nav+) fitted in a different Audi model with a Symphony radio, and confirm that TMC then works. Any volunteers for a small experiment?

During my investigations I made several approaches to both Blaupunkt and Audi (amongst others). Sadly Blaupunkt declined to help, saying the TMC service in UK is not yet good enough and they do not wish to endorse or support it at this time. A half-truth: the TMC service in UK is fine, it's just that Blaupunkt systems do not yet have software to use it properly, so they're really covering up for deficiencies in their own products. Audi (both dealers and Audi UK) started off giving me a load of wrong information about TMC. After I'd got through all that, and presented them with the facts and just asked for a simple answer, they then decided not to comment on TMC at all and refuse even to answer questions on the subject (they won't even confirm that it doesn't work!). So much for customer service.

The good news is that apparently the new DVD-based satnav systems slowly filtering into the Audi range (well done Audi for catching up with where the rest of the industry was over three years ago!) do have proper TMC support built-in as standard. The bad news is that it is very unlikely this new satnav system will ever be made available for the TT.

A final word of thanks to Sextons in Reading (a car audio/security shop), who were very helpful, even though they weren't selling me anything. They'd definitely be my first choice next time I do need any aftermarket stuff.


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## RobbieTT (Sep 6, 2003)

Sorry to hear that, after all your efforts. Good to see someone decided customer service is above a quick buck.

TMC is a fantastic product, a real pleasure to use on my BMW. Just over 2 weeks ago I was sitting in my back garden, with a beer, rather than being stuck in a sequence of major accidents. The nav worked hard to find me new routes after the initial choices were blocked but unrelated accidents. I never stopped moving at speed.

I can live without sat nav, but TMC is something else.


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

Scott,

Yeah, sorry to hear that. I know u worked hard to get the result, even if it wasnt the one u wanted. However the info about the CAN Gateway was interesting as it confirms something else I have been investigating - which is how to write data to the DIS. Clearly the DIS is listening for a specific range of CAN messages, those from the radio and those from the NAV system. The fact that it can't hear those from NAV+ without the conversion suggests the range is limited to a very small number of message identifiers.

If we could work out what the NAV unit wanted to hear and how it maps to the TMC output, creating a conversion box would be relatively easy. (I just happen to have some hardware on my desk here which could do just that!)


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

Echo the other replies Scott - really sorry to hear that it has come to a dead end


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

Chip_iTT,

Interesting idea... I have been looking into the 'custom CAN-bus' idea. However, I'm afraid I'm not personally planning to take this any further - if only because Blaupunkt won't commit to full support for TMC in UK, so any solution we can find isn't going to give full TMC functionality, so isn't worth the extra time/expense.

I agree the hardware required is pretty straightforward. However, as neither Blaupunkt nor Audi publish (and I doubt could not be persuaded to publish!) details of the CAN messages sent/received by the satnav and TMC boxes (it's not just a simple data stream, there's a sequence of two-way conversations), it would be a big uphill struggle to reverse-engineer this and ensure we had covered every possible combination of CAN messages.

But thanks for the suggestion/offer.

As for writing to the DIS display... about a year ago, a German chap was advertising a 'product'/prototype he was working on, that added oil pressure and turbo boost sensors to the car, displaying the numbers in the DIS display. So he'd obviously figured it out. I'm sure his details were posted on this forum somewhere, perhaps a search would find them and he may be willing to share his info with you...


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