# Evap Fuel Purge Valve Symptoms?



## efunc (Oct 12, 2008)

How do you know if it's stuck? Sluggish performance and general lack of power perhaps? That's certainly what I experienced directly after getting it back from an Inspection Service at Audi Finchely back in November. It's been feeling underpowered from the moment I picked up up... right until yesterday. Since yesterday it feels like a different car, back to its old self and perfectly smooth. But it's just random because I haven't actually done anything. And then, this afternoon, I received my new VCDS cable in the post so I immediately ran a scan:

1 Fault Found:
001089 - EVAP Emission Control Sys 
P0441 - 002 - Incorrect Flow - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 28
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 165129 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2018.11.13
Time: 15:09:49

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 758 /min
Load: 19.2 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 93.0∞C
Temperature: 18.0∞C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.097 V

I just checked the date of my service and it was 13th Nov 2018, at 15:00 - the same time as my Service booking! Now, I'm not suggesting the technicians are responsible, because I have had this error intermittently appearing in my scans for years, but it's a little bit uncanny with the timing.

Anyway, regarding the feeling of loss-of-power, is that a symptom of a stuck N80 valve, and given that it now runs like a charm is that what you often experience with randomly faulty valves?


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

Worth a read - [smiley=book2.gif]

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1850235


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## efunc (Oct 12, 2008)

Thanks for the link, looks like a good read. does anyone know what the latest revision is? Is it a common part across the whole 8J platform, or specific to each engine?

Also, what are the symptoms of the N80 valve failure? Is it sluggish performance or under power like I was getting?


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

And one more - [smiley=book2.gif]

View attachment EVAP Operation and Diagnosis Self-Study Program.pdf


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## TTsdsgomg (Mar 19, 2013)

I've had they dreaded engine light off and on for about 6 months. My 2010 tts roadster 272bhp has done 31,000 miles and I put it into a good indie in Kent for a full check over. they replaced the canister ( I know I could do my self ), but they gave me a good all in price so was happy for the experts to deal. anyway 2 months later the light came on again I spoke to them and although helpful basically said it can be a number of things and would need checking out again, I change the n80 valve myself ( bit fiddly to get the clips off and jubilees don't look as neat, but 1 hours work and done ).
The issue is after clearing the fault ( odb11 ) it has returned again and I am thinking its off to Audi for a right good 'fleecing' as repeated visits to an indie are looking as expensive as maybe 1 trip to Audi.
Sorry to waffle on, but these things are clearly there to help emissions etc, but are so hyper-sensitive that only a major overhaul will fully rectify, inbuilt obsolescence £££ so to speak.
In London I see black cabs spewing out clouds of particulates daily whilst parked up outside stations etc and I am being held to ransom for a bloody orange light on my dash for a system the recycles some excess petrol vapour. :evil: rant over.


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## efunc (Oct 12, 2008)

In the past I have had the light come on intermittently and then disappear. Usually it seems if I brim the fuel when filling up, or when the tank is empty, or when I'm heavy on the pedal and boot it, or maybe none of the above and it's all random. However curiously in the period that my scan shows the EVAP system had failed (since 13th Nov 2018) there has been no light showing on the dash, so who knows what brings it on??

What I'd like to know, is if you experienced any performance issues associated with the N80 valve or anything like that? I'm still trying to figure out why I was experiencing a noticeable lack of power since my Service, which coincided with the P0441 (Incorrect Flow) fault showing up in my VCDS scan and has now suddenly resolved itself. Maybe the EVAP system is a red herring and it's nothing to do with that. Anyone?


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## CurryMan (Nov 20, 2016)

efunc said:


> In the past I have had the light come on intermittently and then disappear. Usually it seems if I brim the fuel when filling up, or when the tank is empty, or when I'm heavy on the pedal and boot it, or maybe none of the above and it's all random. However curiously in the period that my scan shows the EVAP system had failed (since 13th Nov 2018) there has been no light showing on the dash, so who knows what brings it on??
> 
> What I'd like to know, is if you experienced any performance issues associated with the N80 valve or anything like that? I'm still trying to figure out why I was experiencing a noticeable lack of power since my Service, which coincided with the P0441 (Incorrect Flow) fault showing up in my VCDS scan and has now suddenly resolved itself. Maybe the EVAP system is a red herring and it's nothing to do with that. Anyone?


You may find a recent thread I created useful when I had the same error message appearing on mine: https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 3#p9127703

I wasn't experiencing any performance loss when my N80 purge valve was failing though ... just a slight whistling sound on boost but from previous research I hear it can fail in a variety of ways so doesn't mean this wouldn't happen necessarily. Make sure you check your EVAP hoses for any obvious leaks / tears visually and fuel cap seal ... I'm now experiencing slightly better MPG after replacing my N80 valve which is bonus and my error hasn't appeared since.

Other thing which may be worth considering is did your garage replace your Air Filter when you had your service? I experienced a power loss when I had mine serviced and I provided them with this Bosch Filter to replace with which was this one here: https://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car- ... 55e&000008

It was driving me mad as I knew it wasn't as responsive during the lower range when I picked it up but couldn't understand why and had no error codes. Sure enough I started to think about what it could be I started to wonder if the Bosch filter I gave them was somehow more restrictive? (I never saw the old filter so I have no idea was make it was)

I ordered a Pipercross Panel Filter and fitted it myself using this video guide: 




To my surprise it cured it - in fact it's now slightly more responsive higher up in the rev range than before!  I suspect some may blast me by saying 'you can't notice a performance difference' as I read similar comments when researching them - but in my case I really could!! When I compared the Pipercross to the Bosch filter it's half the thickness and air does flow so much more easily through it as I tested it with my hoover lol ! I guess you could argue that it means the Pipercross doesn't filter as well but I've had no issues running mine for over a year. Another bonus is you can clean and re-use it every year instead of buying new ones.

Not saying this is the case for you but worth considering - all the best finding the culprit. I know how frustrating it can be when your car feels worth after paying someone ££ to service it ! :?


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## TTsdsgomg (Mar 19, 2013)

Not even sure if my n80 was faulty, but for £20 for an oem part seemed worth replacing just in case. I haven't notice a loss of power, but with 272 gg's under right foot losing a few means I probably wouldn't notice.
Will follow advice and check fuel cap etc. before offering my rear end to Audi.


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## TTsdsgomg (Mar 19, 2013)

After checking seal in fuel cap there appears to be some cracking, haven't removed in case it breaks before I get a new one. Anyone know where to get in UK without being torn a new one


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## Wolvez (Jun 22, 2018)

Try turning the fuel cap gasket. Also check the hose for damages. Your losing power because the spark plug is getting fouled up due to carbon build up


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## efunc (Oct 12, 2008)

Wolvez said:


> Try turning the fuel cap gasket. Also check the hose for damages. Your losing power because the spark plug is getting fouled up due to carbon build up


Thanks. The issue randomly cleared up a couple of days ago and performance has been back to normal since. I speculated that it was due to the N80 valve because VCDS logged the following fault at the exact time I first experienced the loss of power:

P0441 - 002 - Incorrect Flow - Intermittent

Either it was a complete coincidence or it's one of the culprits. Anyone know the current part number? (2.0 BWA TFSI 2007).


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## TTsdsgomg (Mar 19, 2013)

TTsdsgomg said:


> After checking seal in fuel cap there appears to be some cracking, haven't removed in case it breaks before I get a new one. Anyone know where to get in UK without being torn a new one


Just ordered a 'seal' ( not a fluffy one ) from Audi £11 will update once fitted. [smiley=book2.gif]


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## CurryMan (Nov 20, 2016)

efunc said:


> Wolvez said:
> 
> 
> > Try turning the fuel cap gasket. Also check the hose for damages. Your losing power because the spark plug is getting fouled up due to carbon build up
> ...


Did you see my post about the air filter? Keep this is in mind if N80 replacement doesn't solve your performance issues - although it seems as if it should as it would be a constant lose of power if it was the air filter regardless of the fault.

I ordered my N80 valve from Amazon which is the original Bosch unit. It doesn't have the Audi Part number stamped on it like it would be from the Audi Dealer - but it's the same part from Bosch.

Manufacture Part Number: 0280142431
Audi Part Number: 06E 906 517 A

*Amazon Bosch N80 Valve*
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00C7P4SAE/

Also don't forget hose clamps. Once you pry the two either side of it you can't re-use them again if their the original Audi ones. I bought a box of assorted clamps which are a lot easier to install and can be removed / adjusted:

*Hose Clamps*
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07CTLGFXJ

*Video Removal Guide for EVAP*





*Video on Why the N80 Fails from 'The Humble Mechanic'*





Took me about 20mins taking my time with it and the old hose clamps were very stubborn!

Hope that helps.


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## efunc (Oct 12, 2008)

Great, thanks for that. And what engine have you got?

I won't bother changing it now as my engine performance has returned to what it was, just randomly, but I'll keep an eye on things in case it reoccurs.


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## CurryMan (Nov 20, 2016)

efunc said:


> Great, thanks for that. And what engine have you got?
> 
> I won't bother changing it now as my engine performance has returned to what it was, just randomly, but I'll keep an eye on things in case it reoccurs.


No worries. Same as you, 2.0 BWA Engine.


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