# Turbo oil seals?



## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

[smiley=end.gif]

Ever asked a question and you are dreading the answer because you fear you already know it?! :?

Today my 225 (113k miles; 1999; good service history) blew out a cloud of mid-grey smoke; whilst at a junction.

I have driven the car since for about twenty miles; it clears at faster engine/car speeds only to dump another cloud at lower speeds, or when standing.

When you start the engine it is clear for a while and then builds up a cloud.

Turbo oil seals?

If so, how much to sort it?

DIY, regular garage or specialist?

Are the seals changeable; or is it an exchange unit?

All answers are welcome.

Thanks in anticipation.

Specsman [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## infidel.uk (Feb 21, 2015)

before you jump in the deep end.....i had the same issue, so replaced the turbo, but guess what..... [smiley=bigcry.gif]

didnt need to, it was the stem seals.

get a smoke test/leakdown test before you make any choices.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

infidel.uk said:


> before you jump in the deep end.....i had the same issue, so replaced the turbo, but guess what..... [smiley=bigcry.gif]
> 
> didnt need to, it was the stem seals.
> 
> get a smoke test/leakdown test before you make any choices.


Thanks for the prompt reply.

I am guessing you mean valve stem seals? If this means cylinder head removal, that sounds more expensive than the turbo! [smiley=bigcry.gif]

Thank you for your input.

Specsman


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## infidel.uk (Feb 21, 2015)

it wasn't cheap, lol BUT a smoke test is under 100 quid, so could save you lots of money in the long run.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

infidel.uk said:


> it wasn't cheap, lol BUT a smoke test is under 100 quid, so could save you lots of money in the long run.


Thanks for taking the time to offer advice.

My actions are always performed, after much consideration!

Presumably, the oil will not do the catalyst much good, looks like roughing it in the Golf for a while!

Regards,

Specsman [smiley=toff.gif]


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

A minor update...

Fired her up this morning and let it tick over for five mins.

No smoke.

Anyone have any ideas!?

Having read up a bit on this, could it be a blocked/kinked oil return?

Could be my imagination but it seems noisier than usual from the cam belt area :?

I am really outside my knowledge spectrum with this and any further suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Specsman.


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## auspicious_character (Sep 4, 2016)

Drain oil
Remove sump
Remove pick up
Clean/check
Clean/refit sump

Put oil back in or even treat it to new.

There's no real cost to it, only time. 
It will assist with diagnosis and peace of mind.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

auspicious_character said:


> Drain oil
> Remove sump
> Remove pick up
> Clean/check
> ...


OR fit a 1.9 tdi! :lol:

Seriously, what is the theory behind your suggestion?

I am due an oil change so am happy to do this (and my sump plug needs re-tapping)

Will I be able to check the oil return pipe in doing this?

Thank you for your reply,

Specsman.


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## auspicious_character (Sep 4, 2016)

The return is a big pipe which goes back into the block.
The pick up is inside the sump and it isn't a stressful job, just eliminates that as a potential issue.

You could fit a 1.9 if you really wanted.


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## intott (Apr 7, 2015)

Worth checking the boost pipes from the turbo to see if there is any oil in the intake system.

Also, is your oil level ok? Low oil may be the cause of the increased noise from the valve train.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

intott said:


> Worth checking the boost pipes from the turbo to see if there is any oil in the intake system.
> 
> Also, is your oil level ok? Low oil may be the cause of the increased noise from the valve train.


The oil level is a sensitive issue!

I did an oil change in the week I bought the car; it took nearly six litres to refill!

This started me fretting about overfilling, getting the forum involved, measuring our dipsticks (oo errr!). So I simply ran for the last 4000 miles in-between marks.

I intend to drop the sump and check the oil pick up and turbo oil return; and put in only 5 litres to obtain a datum point on the dipstick that I will stick to. I never did find out why the dipstick is so inaccurate :?

Auspicious Character: I think the turbo oil pipe returns into a flange on the side of the sump on the 1.8T. :?

And no I couldn't fit a diesel lump in my car; you know that you are super-human to have achieved this!

Thanks everyone; any other suggestions?? Scrap it, trade it in, buy a Mk2 ?????

Specsman


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## auspicious_character (Sep 4, 2016)

You could easily fit a diesel lump into the car.
It just takes a little time, perseverance and I'll post you the plug/play wiring.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

auspicious_character said:


> You could easily fit a diesel lump into the car.
> It just takes a little time, perseverance and I'll post you the plug/play wiring.


When I first read your thread on your conversion, I was (and remain) deeply impressed.

I'm a bit long in the tooth now for all that work but never say never; it is a generous offer for you to sort the electrics for me; though i fear I would require substantially more help than that!

I will continue as you have suggested, with the sump removal, and hopefully get a bit more life out of it.

I am beginning to realise what you meant when you wrote "you never own a 1.8T", in your thread!

Kindest regards,

Specsman [smiley=toff.gif]


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

Further minor update.....

Finally got my ramps back from the galvanizers; (flatter angled ones that I have made). Got the sump off as suggested by Auspicious Character. I was pleased to see that there is no sludge and only a few tiny bits in the pick-up gauze.

It looks like the trouble is elsewhere, but I will continue with reassembly now, drain the charge pipes as suggested by Intott, and see what happens.

Be glad to get back behind the wheel; Golf TDI just isn't the same!

Specsman 8)

ps There was no level sensor in the sump as I expected; I can't believe I didn't notice before. Car is 1999, do later ones have one?


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## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

no electrical connection to the bottom of the sump at all?
Seems strange but what do I know .
I have replaced my dipstick and dipstick holder and from measuring with the old one,I know the new stick markings are slightly closer together than the old , BUT , the max level on the new is slightly higher than the old :roll: .
I keep the oil slightly below the max and it doesnt appear to burn much.(if you overfill it can be bad news on any turbo /cat engine for oil burning)
Even so the last time I had the pipes off,for an intercooler change there was I dunno, an eggcupfull of oil or oily sludge at the bottom of the intercooler pipe run , and even the throttle body wasnt totally oil free..
Much ,well most of this would be from the sump breather.
Hopefully.. real turbo seals gone would provide a load of oil and smokiness.
Ive fitted a catch can since, but I may not keep it.
Is there not an argument to have some oily vapour in the induction system . perhaps turbo oil seals need a little lube(oeer) on the dry side to keep em in good condition . :?


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

3TT3 said:


> no electrical connection to the bottom of the sump at all?
> Seems strange but what do I know .
> I have replaced my dipstick and dipstick holder and from measuring with the old one,I know the new stick markings are slightly closer together than the old , BUT , the max level on the new is slightly higher than the old :roll: .
> I keep the oil slightly below the max and it doesnt appear to burn much.(if you overfill it can be bad news on any turbo /cat engine for oil burning)
> ...


Thanks for your reply 3TT3.

Positively no wiring in the area and I think it's the original sump. The cast


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

3TT3 said:


> no electrical connection to the bottom of the sump at all?
> Seems strange but what do I know .
> I have replaced my dipstick and dipstick holder and from measuring with the old one,I know the new stick markings are slightly closer together than the old , BUT , the max level on the new is slightly higher than the old :roll: .
> I keep the oil slightly below the max and it doesnt appear to burn much.(if you overfill it can be bad news on any turbo /cat engine for oil burning)
> ...


Thanks for your reply 3TT3.

Positively no wiring in the area and I think it's the original sump. The casting is formed for the sensor but not drilled etc. mystery :?

The dipstick problem remains and I can only obtain the mark I require, by filling a dry sump/filter with five litres and etching a new notch on my dipstick. (oooh matron!) My engine used little oil in the last 5000 miles. (my ownership).

I completely forgot the closed pcv system, it figures that this could cause an issue, but my pcv, prv and diverter valve are new oem. :? I need to investigate this if the problem persists.

The problem started after I had parked for 10 minutes facing steeply uphill, so I hope it will clear anyways.

Auspicious Character suggested removing the sump to inspire confidence - and it has certainly done this; no sludge or debris to speak of. I had visions of a handful of crap being in there, hopefully the oil changes have been regular.

Thanks everyone.

Specsman 8)


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

Well it's back together; and still smoking like Thomas the tank engine.

This is my current thinking.............

If it was valve stem seals, it would clear briefly after starting, however, on tick over it smokes continuously

If it was piston rings, it would not clear a higher speeds. (?)

That leaves the turbo.

Need the leakdown/smoke test as suggested; or some other diagnosis?

Have I overlooked anything?

Any suggestions anyone?

Specsman


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## stevov (Jun 15, 2016)

Take the intake pipe off the turbo and check for movement on the impeller shaft. A small amount of up and down movement is permissable but if there is any in and out movement on the shaft the thrust bearing is on its way out. All though potentially messy if you can run the car on idle with the oil fill cap off this will reduce any potential crankcase backpressure. If there's a problem with the pcv system the smoke should decrease after a minute or so as the system clears. Keep lots of rags handy.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

stevov said:


> Take the intake pipe off the turbo and check for movement on the impeller shaft. A small amount of up and down movement is permissable but if there is any in and out movement on the shaft the thrust bearing is on its way out. All though potentially messy if you can run the car on idle with the oil fill cap off this will reduce any potential crankcase backpressure. If there's a problem with the pcv system the smoke should decrease after a minute or so as the system clears. Keep lots of rags handy.


Thanks for your reply, stevov,

I am now reasonably sure that the breather system is AOK.

I am interested in your method to check the turbo, but I have now located a company, a reasonable distance from my day job, that offers a free diagnostic on turbos (Best Turbos, Oldbury). Their specialty seems to be Range Rover bi-turbos, so a titty should be a piece of cake for them!

Their reviews are glowing, (unless anyone knows differently?) so I will be contacting them tomorrow and will report back here.

Specsman.


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## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

Okay, I feel I need to intervene here before you potentially replace a turbo that has nothing wrong with it. Does your car puff out smoke the second you start it up?

Does it smoke on hard boost?


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

TT Tom TT said:


> Okay, I feel I need to intervene here before you potentially replace a turbo that has nothing wrong with it. Does your car puff out smoke the second you start it up?
> 
> Does it smoke on hard boost?


Thank you for your concern and reply,

It unfortunately varies!

It is usually clean for a few seconds, then it's like trench warfare! (I am not overstating this, this is a substantial volume of light blue oily smoke) As you drive, it clears within 1/2 mile; without the hint of any smoke at all :? It pulls as well as it ever has done.

Then leave it to tick over for a few minutes (after the warm-up drive) and the smoking returns again.

I am hoping to receive honest advice from the turbo company, perhaps I'm too trusting(?)

If you have any suggestions, I am more than happy to try them out!

Kindest regards,

Specsman.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

Just nipped outside to fire her up, just to confirm what happens.

Zero smoke until 45 seconds, then like a cs gas canister!

As I write I am watching my cloud drift down into the valley!

I removed the oil cap whilst it was running and this did not alter the volume of smoke in five minutes (proving no breather issue?)

If it's not piston rings or turbo what else could it possibly be? I don't think stem seals could do this, could they?

Specsman.


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## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

SPECSMAN said:


> Just nipped outside to fire her up, just to confirm what happens.
> 
> Zero smoke until 45 seconds, then like a cs gas canister!
> 
> ...


With stem seals you'd see the smoke straight after starting as there car's been sitting for a wheel and the oil would have been able to seep past the perished stem seals so it makes me think it isn't that.

This is really, really peculiar behaviour. Could you answer my question regarding boost? If you boost the car significantly is smoke still present or not? and I mean a good hard pull, foot-planted to the floor at 4K rpm in second gear pull?


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

TT Tom TT said:


> SPECSMAN said:
> 
> 
> > Just nipped outside to fire her up, just to confirm what happens.
> ...


Sorry, perhaps I didn't make that 100% clear.

Yes, after the initial 1/2 mile there is zero smoke, I took the car down a dual track, accelerating to all engine speeds, including red line, and there was no visible smoke.

Tried to look at the smokes colour in detail to describe it. It is oil but whitish blue, don't know if the oil being brand new synthetic would make it lighter coloured?

What are you thinking Tom?

Specsman


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## infidel.uk (Feb 21, 2015)

With stem seals you'd see the smoke straight after starting as there car's been sitting for a wheel and the oil would have been able to seep past the perished stem seals so it makes me think it isn't that.[/quote]

not in my case, it only smoked once warm, on tick-over /pulling away/slowing down then speeding up suddenly.

get a smoke test / leak-down test done to find out for sure/


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## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

SPECSMAN said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> > SPECSMAN said:
> ...


I don't know but I feel out of my depth here, this really isn't making sense to me so I don't know what to suggest! If I had to pick something I would still say something head related like exhaust guides or valve stem seals but it just doesn't seem quite like anything in particular...

The fact it's smoking at idle really points to stem seals for me but then the fact it doesn't puff straight away on start up kind of goes against that... It's really a head-scratching scenario for me. Maybe a blocked PCV system or something?

I wouldn't put too much faith in my advice because honestly I'm border-line guessing at this point :?... I wish I could be of more help to you.

EDIT EDIT EDIT BELOW BELOW BELOW



TT Tom TT said:


> With stem seals you'd see the smoke straight after starting as there car's been sitting for a wheel and the oil would have been able to seep past the perished stem seals so it makes me think it isn't that.





infidel.uk said:


> not in my case, it only smoked once warm, on tick-over /pulling away/slowing down then speeding up suddenly.
> 
> get a smoke test / leak-down test done to find out for sure


Oh cool, this is handy for SPECS to know. Maybe it's just my valve stem seals are currently in a much worse state than yours were.

I'd say valve stem seals then SPECS, what's the mileage on your car? 80K+?


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

I appreciate your honesty Tom. My knowledge is based in optics!

You have a point about it possibly being engine based, for instance, if the head gasket failed from an oil gallery into a combustion chamber, it would probably smoke then!

I will continue to make investigations and report back when it is diagnosed.

Thank you.

Specsman


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

Mileage is 107k

Hopefully I can find someone that will diagnose without mugging me!

I will report my findings, thank you all.

Specsman.


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## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

Id like to guess too.. sorry not funny but.
The 45 second thing. Thats about when the rpm drops from 1200 to 760? Dunno what significance that has.
On mine , until recently with outside temp increases , oil pressure on startup with a cold engine is about 6.5-7 bar idle ,no real difference between 1200 and 760 rpm. It takes a few minutes to drop to 5- 6 bar .Then if youve been driving and engine is fully warmed up it goes like 2.5 bar and a bit lower at idle.

So whas that mean ? -the oil is pretty thick when the engine is cold and 45 seconds isnt going to make much difference .

No nasty noises like screeching from turbo area?

So is oil getting sucked by the intake vacuum past the turbo seals ?,I dont know .
You could guess that if the seals were leaking there would be oil in the induction system already from the last run .

How about connecting the maf unit directly up to the throttle body (with a hose)..where would one get this hose..er dunno but it wouldnt have to be super durable.Even something like one of those flexible plastic hoses for a tumble dryer adapted.
Just so long as you could get a reasonable air seal for a few minutes.
That way you could totally bypass the turbo and intercoolers and pcv system and narrow it down to the engine.
All the other sensors?
np map will read map(absolute pressure, whether its combined with boost or not)..thas all it does, no vacuum afaik .
n75 and all the rest ,no pressure either outside air temp is in front of the rad .
iat will still read ok.
The pcv system puk needs I believe a vacuum or non vacuum condition to work properly,but on a cs gas or no cs gas test ...
I mean the engine should start up and idle ok.

Then youll see hopefully whether you get cs gas time after 45 secs or not.
If you do its probably something inside the engine .
If not ,well youll have eliminated some possibles 
Just a guess/idea.


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## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

SPECSMAN said:


> Mileage is 107k
> 
> Hopefully I can find someone that will diagnose without mugging me!
> 
> ...


My money's on stem seals, as mentioned a leak-down test is the best way to know for sure ! Certainly better than us guessing but I really do think stem seals... If it is get everything on your head sorted whilst it's off... I.E. exhaust guides, lapped valves, everything cleaned up, new gaskets skim and stretch bolts.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

I will be asking about leakdown tests today.

It figures that asking a turbo company could be a bad move, they are obviously more likely to advise turbo replacement!

Head off also involves cam belts and therefore water pump, (not due, but may as well whilst it's off)

I think the estimate might scrap the old girl :?

Specsman  [smiley=toff.gif]


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## auspicious_character (Sep 4, 2016)

SPECSMAN said:


> I think the estimate might see a diesel going in the old girl :?
> 
> Specsman  [smiley=toff.gif]


About time someone else did it.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

auspicious_character said:


> SPECSMAN said:
> 
> 
> > I think the estimate might see a diesel going in the old girl :?
> ...


Editing my quotes, cheeky bugger :lol:

You may have a point, if the estimates are in the region I am fearing.

You built your titty 2wd, was this because the haldex was knackered anyway?

Would it have worked in your car, if it was working as a petrol originally? I would want to keep it 4wd.

Regards,

Specsman 8)


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

Had a chat with a local mechanic and he gave me a few pointers.

He advised me to run the engine with the turbo charge pipe disconnected from the intercooler rubber hose.

He recons that this isolates the turbo from the intake side and the smoke would clear if it was a turbo issue; also I revved the engine gently to judge the amount of oil being blown out of the turbo charge pipe.

The tail pipes spewed out a continuous cloud of smoke as usual.  The charge pipe didn't blow anything but air. :?

This suggests rings or valve stem seals, both of which are expensive items on a 2k car!

Question

Could the turbo still be knackered on the exhaust side; ie feeding oil into the exhaust directly?

I'm thinking valve stem seals now; I did the sump removal and found it spotless, is it looking like a previous owner had an oil starvation issue, leading to other failures?

I hate old cars [smiley=furious3.gif]

A very p**sed off Specsman [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## auspicious_character (Sep 4, 2016)

The haldex worked fine in mine, mechanically everything worked before I started.
The downside was that it was crash damaged and black.
The plus was that I sold all the haldex off individually.

If you consider it, you should consider the retail of the parts you don't use.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

auspicious_character said:


> The haldex worked fine in mine, mechanically everything worked before I started.
> The downside was that it was crash damaged and black.
> The plus was that I sold all the haldex off individually.
> 
> If you consider it, you should consider the retail of the parts you don't use.


We both know I haven't the grapes to do what you did! :lol:

It looks like "time to say goodbye" I've spent more on this cars faults than I would ever admit to Mrs Specsman, (enjoyed much of it though), and it rewards me like this!

I have just phoned an Audi independent, and he recons that volume of smoke is not stem seals, he recons it's the turbo on the exhaust side and he doesn't want the job! Nightmare apparently; they lose on every one they have ever done. Great.

Where has that bloody rope gone? [smiley=hanged.gif]


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## auspicious_character (Sep 4, 2016)

If you sell it smoking you will get peanuts.
From a business perspective, pay someone to chuck a second hand turbo on and sell it that way.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

auspicious_character said:


> If you sell it smoking you will get peanuts.
> From a business perspective, pay someone to chuck a second hand turbo on and sell it that way.


Latest Development,

I have bit the bullet and taken it to a company called Best Turbos, in Tividale, West Midlands, (local to my day job.)

They talk a good fight, we shall see.

They offer.....

Free diagnosis, no work started until they report the probable fault.

Unlimited mileage and age warranty, with conditions concerning servicing. Two years otherwise.

£450.00 +VAT for a refurbished turbo, fitted, new oil and filters, gaskets changed, oil lines cleaned out.

24 hour turnaround.

The best bit, if they do the work but don't cure the fault, no charge!

The amount of glowing references on facebook would suggest they are very good, 
(or at least at fabricating references? :lol: )

The reception was lined with hundreds of turbos; the workshops were rough and ready but all the bays had cars in them, my kind of workshop.

They seem to be of foreign extraction but that's par for the course around these parts!

Compare that to an Audi indi; who suggested it was probably the turbo on the exhaust side, due to the volume of smoke and then said he didn't want the job for less than £1600, because they are a "*@[email protected] to do" adding only "the last two I did lost money". Nice.

As always, I will report my findings.

The sun is shining! 8)

Slightly less *is*ed off Specsman 8)


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## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

SPECSMAN said:


> auspicious_character said:
> 
> 
> > If you sell it smoking you will get peanuts.
> ...


So they will diagnose your car, if they diagnose it not to be the turbo they send you away and if they believe it is and they rebuild the turbo only to see your car still smokes you don't have to pay? Seems WIN-WIN to me. I would take pictures of that slogan of theirs and I would record your car first and find a way to prove the date of your recording too... Maybe film yourself going on your PC first and googling "what is the date today?" and then going outside and recording your car so they know that the video is legitimate and was recorded at the time you say it was.

Then record afterwards and if the smoke hasn't change but they're ordering to pay you have all your evidence to appropriately and legally defend yourself with a 100% chance of winning your case.


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## watersbluebird (Oct 26, 2015)

That's not so bad for that money. Let's hope it's perfect after they change the turbo and associated stuff. Good luck!


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

watersbluebird said:


> That's not so bad for that money. Let's hope it's perfect after they change the turbo and associated stuff. Good luck!


Thanks for the "good luck!"

I have gone from "scrap the bugger" to "life after death" today!

If I had not invested so much time in the old crock, I would get rid, however, I have just had my refurbished summer wheels delivered from A1 wheels, so I need a car to put them on!

If Best Turbos deliver what they say they can, or if they are totally honest about the condition of my car and admit it's not turbo related, everyone here that wants to know will be given the full story!

Also, if I get stitched up, rest assured, you will know about that as well!

The calibre of the cars they were working on and the volume of work they are doing, from all over the country, just in turbo chargers, suggests to me that they are Bona Fide. We shall see, and you, the forum, will be the first to know!

Thanks to all that offered their opinions.

Specsman 8)


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

Well..............

It was the turbo!

The guys at Best Turbos deserve our business.

It has transformed the car, obviously the smoke issue has gone, but the power is increased and also the smoothness.

They told me that the turbo had _already_ been refurbished, using Chinese components and the resulting imbalance probably led to its failure. Oil poured into the exhaust causing the smoke.

They replaced the bearings and seals obviously; along with new compressor wheel and turbine, but the secret is how they balance and test the unit.

Martin explained how the individual turbine and compressor wheels are balanced, then the assembled unit is bench tested, even the securing nut for the spindle is balanced.

The guarantee:

UNLIMITED age and mileage guarantee! For this they insist on an oil and filter change, every 6,000 miles, or you get only two years warranty otherwise.

BUT, If you DIY service, they will accept receipts for your oil and filter as proof of service!

I will admit to being a bit wary of the claims and the reviews, but I can confirm that I was pleased to hand over the money!

I will report any shortcomings if and when they occur, but for now, the beast lives on!

Thanks you for all your input; it is always welcome

Specsman 8)


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## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

SPECSMAN said:


> Well..............
> 
> It was the turbo!
> 
> ...


Nice result 8)! I'm very glad they sorted it for you and correctly diagnosed the problem.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

TT Tom TT said:


> SPECSMAN said:
> 
> 
> > Well..............
> ...


Thanks Tom,

Because Best Turbos are local to the Specsman Empire, I have been using our company 107 for motorway commuting!

To say I'm glad to get back in a good 'un, is an understatement! :lol:

I'm off now to get my money's worth!

Specsman. 8)


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

Best Turbos were good to their word and sent photographs of the rebuild to show the condition of the unit.

The car is better than ever, the turbo spools better now with obvious performance and economy improvements.

Photos herewith, I don't need to explain which is the before and after!

Specsman 8)
rbo 066.jpg[/attachment]

(I am still learning how to upload pics, but I'm getting there!)


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## watersbluebird (Oct 26, 2015)

Great news.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

watersbluebird said:


> Great news.


Thank you, it certainly is. I was thinking of breaking the car, to get my money back!

What I have learned is that a turbo can leak oil into the exhaust, without it having to go through the induction/engine (obvious, in hindsight).

Splitting the induction pipework to isolate the turbo will not disconnect the oil supply that is causing the issue.

I have also learned that turbo fitting specialists can be better and cheaper than the independent/main dealer Audi!

Specsman 8)


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## Black225 mk1 (Aug 31, 2016)

Nice one Specsman - Great news that you got sorted as breaking wouldn't have been a pleasant option.

Also this sort of information is invaluable to everyone on here should anyone else how a similar problem.

Looks like a cracking job by the turbo people


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## auspicious_character (Sep 4, 2016)

Borrowed time.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

auspicious_character said:


> Borrowed time.


You sarcastic @rse!

You're like Death; awaiting the demise of poor innocent 1.8t's - so you can resurrect them with a dose of devils diesel engines!

Made me laugh out loud!

[smiley=sunny.gif]


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

Black225 mk1 said:


> Nice one Specsman - Great news that you got sorted as breaking wouldn't have been a pleasant option.
> 
> Also this sort of information is invaluable to everyone on here should anyone else how a similar problem.
> 
> Looks like a cracking job by the turbo people


I am pleased that another has been saved from the chop. (just happens to be mine!)

This is a good lesson to anyone who argues that 20,000 miles is an acceptable oil and filter change interval.

Prevention is better than cure.

Thanks for your kind words.

Specsman 8)


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## peloton2016 (Sep 23, 2016)

Hi Specsman. Thanks for all your musings and update following changing the turbo unit at Best Turbos. I did speak with them so while ago, as I am experiencing the same symtoms you described. That is white smoke after the engine hd been idling a few minutes, but nothing when the car is running. I'm going through a litre of oil every 450 miles. Going through the usual list of issues, valve stem seals, rings etc but not sure what the issue being I didn't commit, other than it cost me £450! (apparently all genuine audi parts) to change the breather tubes and PCV valve, which in fairness were pretty choked up, but nontheless hasn't cured the problem. So, I'm going to book a visit to Best Turbos and stump up the cash. If you've any further updates then that would be good to hear.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

peloton2016 said:


> Hi Specsman. Thanks for all your musings and update following changing the turbo unit at Best Turbos. I did speak with them so while ago, as I am experiencing the same symtoms you described. That is white smoke after the engine hd been idling a few minutes, but nothing when the car is running. I'm going through a litre of oil every 450 miles. Going through the usual list of issues, valve stem seals, rings etc but not sure what the issue being I didn't commit, other than it cost me £450! (apparently all genuine audi parts) to change the breather tubes and PCV valve, which in fairness were pretty choked up, but nontheless hasn't cured the problem. So, I'm going to book a visit to Best Turbos and stump up the cash. If you've any further updates then that would be good to hear.


I suppose each car can develop similar symptoms with different faults.

Your oil consumption combined with white-ish/grey smoke sounds like probable turbo, based on my experience.

Does the smoke smell of oil?, mine did

My smoke was like a 1970's nightclub! but if yours is less in volume, it could be just a less leaky bearing/seal?

My advice to you, is to take Best Turbos offer; namely, if they diagnose a faulty turbo (over stem seals, piston rings,etc.)
and their work does not cure the fault, they will not charge you. WIN/WIN as someone posted earlier.

I would mention the TT forum, they are hot on good publicity, use this to your advantage :wink:

I paid, £450 + VAT (£540 total); the price they quoted.

They changed the oil and filter with VAG spec oil; AND the air filter (even after I explained the new oil/filter put in during the sump clean!)

Assuming your location is reasonably favourable, book a diagnosis, nothing to lose, everything to gain.

The 24 hour turnaround claim proved slightly optimistic, but in fairness I did say "no rush, just get it right".

They gave me plenty of chance to examine the car and we went on a five mile test drive, before being asked to part with a penny. (scared the shit out of Martin! :lol: )

The latest on my car is that during my six months ownership, it has never driven so well.
Before, I didn't think the turbo was failing to boost at all, just leaking oil! I was wrong. They suggest that the turbo had previously been messed with, inferior parts fitted and not balanced properly or at all; the result was that the turbo could not spool to its full potential and premature failure was inevitable.

It would be more economical, if the increased power and smoothness wasn't so addictive!

Zero smoke, obviously.

I apologise for rambling on, hope some of it makes sense.

Let us know how you get on.

Specsman [smiley=sunny.gif]


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## peloton2016 (Sep 23, 2016)

Cheers Specsman. I've followed your advice and taken my car to Best Turbo (mind you I had to cycle the 65 mile back home!) and the car is with them as I write. The diagnosis is that there is play on the saft which indicates the reason for the white smoke and high oil consumption. They've agreed the discounted price of £450 plus vat which I feel is reasonable given the amount of work required to change the turbo unit. Hopefully, it will result in the desired outcome. Like yourself the car appears to run fine, but hopefully the car will have more oomph after the fitment. My only concern is that the car doesn't smoke all the time, so it will be hard to determine on the test drive as to whether or not the turbo is the issue. Fingers crossed.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

peloton2016 said:


> Cheers Specsman. I've followed your advice and taken my car to Best Turbo (mind you I had to cycle the 65 mile back home!) and the car is with them as I write. The diagnosis is that there is play on the saft which indicates the reason for the white smoke and high oil consumption. They've agreed the discounted price of £450 plus vat which I feel is reasonable given the amount of work required to change the turbo unit. Hopefully, it will result in the desired outcome. Like yourself the car appears to run fine, but hopefully the car will have more oomph after the fitment. My only concern is that the car doesn't smoke all the time, so it will be hard to determine on the test drive as to whether or not the turbo is the issue. Fingers crossed.


Sixty five miles!! Bloody hell! I am still reeling from the ten quid taxi fare, back to the Specsman empire!

I was totally unconvinced about my diagnosis, but it proved to be correct. Once my car had warmed up and was on the move, I couldn't notice any smoke until stuck in traffic, then it would be like a scene from a war movie.

If your smoke is from oil travelling through the intake first, the smoke amount/timing could be less predictable(?)

Fingers crossed, as you say. Let us know how you get on.

Regards,

Specsman 8)


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## peloton2016 (Sep 23, 2016)

Well, after all said and done and new turbo installed. The car's still smoking at idle!!! Its costing too much pain and heartache. All I can think that is left is the valve stem seals. So, I'll buy one of those seal conditioners and throw that in. If that don't work I'll just keep topping it up with oil as it has to be cheaper and less stressful. The car is fine on the move performs well with no sign of smoke. I've just give it a good run to get it hot then let it idle which seemed fine. No smoke. Then left it for an hour and then restarted it and left it to idle for a while and nothing at first, but then after a few minutes it started smoking. I really don't know if I will get any joy from Best Turbos, and their 'refund if their diagnosis is not correct'. Still I will contact them and see.


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## stevov (Jun 15, 2016)

540 fitted for a new turbo including oil, oilfilter, air filter and coolant is to me a roll of the dice. Trade price for an oem borg warner is pushing 600 quid.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

I'm sorry it didn't work for you 

Much harder to get money back than not pay it in the first place, from any organisation. :? Shame you couldn't make it smoke on the test drive.

At least you can now eliminate the turbo from the list of suspects, I suppose.

All the best,

Specsman


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## stevov (Jun 15, 2016)

Given the price paid sadly the turbo can't be eliminated. What turbo was fitted.


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## peloton2016 (Sep 23, 2016)

I understand that they remove turbo and then install new inards. I'm told its a K4? Or something like that. The problem on the test drive is that you cannot measure oil consumption. This only obviously comes with driving. I'm so peed off with the whole TT experience. Its not my main car, but supposedly something to have a bit of fun with. Think I'll give up trying to bring it back to a nice condition and just run it until somthing gives.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

peloton2016 said:


> I understand that they remove turbo and then install new inards. I'm told its a K4? Or something like that. The problem on the test drive is that you cannot measure oil consumption. This only obviously comes with driving. I'm so peed off with the whole TT experience. Its not my main car, but supposedly something to have a bit of fun with. Think I'll give up trying to bring it back to a nice condition and just run it until somthing gives.


They refurbish your existing turbo; clean the oil lines and fit new air and oil filters and oil.

I feel your pain; I have spent more cash, than I will ever see again on resale.

Always waiting for the next issue is like a ticking time bomb; clutch pedal? stem seals? oil starvation? haldex failure? I could go on, so I will; rose joints? power steering? SAI? heater matrix? radio volume problems? coil packs? dual mass flywheel? seat heaters? indicator relay?

It is still worth all these nightmares, when you can out-perform cars worth twenty times our cars value!

If you want reliability buy a Toyota Aygo!

Keep the faith!

Specsman. 8)


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## peloton2016 (Sep 23, 2016)

Hi Specsman. The new turbo does seem to make the car drive significantly better with plenty of grunt, but i suspect i'm still burning oil. i had little confidence in the mechanic who charged me an arm and a leg to apparently replace all the breather pipework and allegedly the pcv (but did he or did he simply give it a shake and then refit??). So, my question is, is the test valid to test the pcv by unscrewing the oil filler cap whilst the engine is running and and if its vibrating a good amount then the pcv could be sticking. or is there another simple test you can perform as a check? Thanks in advance.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

peloton2016 said:


> Hi Specsman. The new turbo does seem to make the car drive significantly better with plenty of grunt, but i suspect i'm still burning oil. i had little confidence in the mechanic who charged me an arm and a leg to apparently replace all the breather pipework and allegedly the pcv (but did he or did he simply give it a shake and then refit??). So, my question is, is the test valid to test the pcv by unscrewing the oil filler cap whilst the engine is running and and if its vibrating a good amount then the pcv could be sticking. or is there another simple test you can perform as a check? Thanks in advance.


Glad to hear that there has been some positive outcome from your £540 spend 

Testing for oil burning purposes, you can completely eliminate the pcv and indeed all the breather network, from suspicion by removing the filler cap; cover with an open woven rag so it can breathe but still catch the splashes.

Any oily smoke from the exhaust should vanish after 5 mins or so.

My theory, (and I stand to be corrected by wiser men), is that removal of the cap allows any blow-by to escape without having to release through the breather system.

During my smoke issue, I did this to confirm that a faulty breather system was not causing a build up of pressure in the crankcase.

In your case, let's hope that the remaining oil in the intercoolers and charge pipes is working its way out. Its a good excuse to go for a nice long run!

I should add that my engine is APX; but for this issue, an engine is an engine.

Regards,

Specsman [smiley=sunny.gif]


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## old225chap (Mar 21, 2015)

Recently had a NEW COMPLETE KKK turbo fitted and the labour alone was £450 (and they said that doesn`t really cover it!!) so £450 for a complete job?? I can`t even see the darn turbo. How do they get to it without being shapeshifting aliens??


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

old225chap said:


> Recently had a NEW COMPLETE KKK turbo fitted and the labour alone was £450 (and they said that doesn`t really cover it!!) so £450 for a complete job?? I can`t even see the darn turbo. How do they get to it without being shapeshifting aliens??


Like you, I took one look and thought, balls to that!

It's actually £450 PLUS VAT = £540; I think they are going for volume sales and are not ripping us off.

They have all the parts in stock and rebuild/balance on site; "normal" cars same day; two days on my Titty.

Unlimited age and mileage warranty! - for as long as they stay in business perhaps; but I don't regret using them.

Specsman 8)


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## DDcrash (May 5, 2009)

I might be giving them a call.


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