# Garage ripping me off



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Can I express my honesty on a public forum lol

What are my legal rights


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, Probably best not to as it will be kept as evidence, if you are incorrect. Sort it out with the garage first.
Hoggy.


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## Stochman (Aug 16, 2013)

In the meantime, without mentioning their name, you could give an explanation as to why you feel that you were ripped off by them, it may save the same thing happening to others in your area as they could pm you to find out the actual name of the garage


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## bigdodge (Apr 22, 2012)

Well you are just stating the facts you are not implying anything so I don't see anything wrong with this.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bigdodge said:


> Well you are just stating the facts you are not implying anything so I don't see anything wrong with this.


The thing is, you don't have a _right _to post anything on a forum. You're allowed to post by the forum owners and they can chose what they want (and don't want) on here.

From a purely legal perspective though, as long as what you write is substantially based on the truth it would be difficult to sue you.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I would look up the first word you have used in the dictionary before you go any further. :roll:


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## ReTTro fit (Nov 9, 2014)

jamman said:


> I would look up the first word you have used in the dictionary before you go any further. :roll:


AGREED ! Lol
You'd of been better not having a title so explicit and just posting what your upset with without naming names if something's ongoing

On iPhone using Tapacrap


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

Libel.

But spill the beans..


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## bigdodge (Apr 22, 2012)

I would state what happened of course nothing you cant proved. Its information sharing in an effort to enlighten your forum members


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## cbjroms (Nov 22, 2014)

There is nothing wrong with you setting-out your case on here as to why you feel that you have been ripped-off.

Chris


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

Interesting discussion.

I'm on a couple of forums one of which is operated by Porsche Club Great Britain. There, a member is taking a prestige dealer to court and posted up a very sketchy thread mentioning the company and an outline of the issues, but no details. Within seconds it was completely censored by the mods. I then posted a "What are you guys doing?" post, which generated a flaming from the mods stating it's not allowed. I responded as I'd worked out the location of the dealer. That post got immediately censored too. I then responded with an "Aren't we here to protect and inform our members about unsavoury suppliers," post which then attracted the attention of the mods again. I told them what I thought and moved on.

The owner of the site is responsible for the content hence the mods function (for my sins I'm one on another Pork forum). That place has a reasonable protocol for outing bad practice and as long as it remains polite, truthful, on message and doesn't become an open inquisition, things are left alone. They often fizzle out in a day or so.

If it encourages debate then I think it's a healthy aspect of forum life; if the board is just used as an excuse to vent ones spleen, then that's different. Having said all that I'm neither the owner or a mod here, so my opinion is just that. As long as it doesn't degenerate to the level of PH then we should all be fine 

VT


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Cheers all for your comments  
It's not the tt forum 

You guys are great [smiley=sweetheart.gif]

I've received an email after trying to amicably get a refund but the guy is being crude and difficult so I've spilt the beans and now they threaten me with layers and to get legal advise hahaha


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## TheVarix (Apr 3, 2013)

I think if you explained what the problem was maybe someone here could give you some advice on how to resolve the matter but if you don't, there isn't much that we can do to help you...


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

When I initially looked at the for sale advertisement you stated that it has excellent body work which I believed was true. There is also wording that stated *A LOVELY GOLF GTI WITH FULL SERVICEHISTORY HAVING BEEN MAINTAINED REGARDLESS OF COST*.

Upon visiting the showroom I was told that the car would be in immaculate condition if I was to purchase the car. I was also promised that the car would be washed and valeted as well as any scratches and light and light marks polished over and removed.

After the purchase of the car I realised that the jerking in drive gear is getting worse and now believe there to be a genuine fault. This worried me further so I investigated the matter by raising the vehicle on the work car lift/ramp. This enabled me to find out that the outer front drive shafts, left and right hand side Constant Velocity Joint Outer Boot/Gaiters are torn away from the retaining clips. I have attached a photo as evidence. I showed this to a mechanic/technician who told me that the gaiters would have failed the M.O.T and then I then went about checking the CV joints which are found to have lost grease and causing the droning/rumbling noise on the front.

The seller assured me everything was fine on the day of purchase hence I paid £2000 in cash and £4350 remaining after having paid £500 deposit on the 7th January 2015. The 4350 was paid in full with my visa debit card.

Unfortunately I did not get a chance to recheck the car internally or go for another test drive as the car was unavailable.

I trusted the trader with their word that everything was fine with my new purchase and there fore I did not pursue to check the car again as it was too late and dark so drove home. 
I also requested that I receive a receipt for the Throttle control valve unit that was going to be replaced as this was faulty and stated on the day of viewing by a member of the garage in question who agreed that they would copy all the receipts along with the DSG Oil Service receipt and current M.O.T. Document and happily told me that I will receive all the documents with pleasure on the day I came to pick the car up. 
But never received any paper work or receipts apart from two old mot's and service booklet.
Dsg jerking and juddering when moving off.
Both front cv joints rumbling.
Engine shaking
cv boots torn away from tie bands.


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## Stochman (Aug 16, 2013)

It doesn't look good does it, I'm sure there'll be a few wise words of advice on here shortly. The only advice that I can offer is unfortunately hindsight advice now. You should ALWAYS ensure that at least part of your payment is made by visa CREDIT, not visa DEBIT as the legal protection that the visa credit card offers is MUCH better. I recently bought our Skoda Yeti for £10k but I made damn sure that I paid £200 of the purchase price by my visa credit card, that way the credit card company has as much responsibility with regard to my purchase as the car dealer has.

I'm sure you will have already done this, but if not contact Consumer Direct first thing tomorrow, explain the situation to them fully and they will outline your rights, I'm pretty sure that this car will come under the 'not fit for purpose' section. The dealer can probably argue their way out of torn CV rubbers as they can state it was fine when it left them, however arguing their way out of a faulty DSG gearbox will be much more difficult.

Hope you get sorted soon.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

No it doesn't.

Can't believe the guys sell lamboghini Porsche maserati and other performance brands.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Only had the car two weeks but didn't drive it for the first week as i still have my beloved tt  
Those joints should not have passed the mot 12 12 2014 and be in this condition?.

I'll do that thanks Stochman


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, How many miles on clock since it passed MOT ?
Hoggy.


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## TheVarix (Apr 3, 2013)

This is from Trading Standards's site:
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/problemswithvehicles-sum6.cfm
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/problemswithvehicles-sum4.cfm

Pasted from one of the links above:



> When you buy a used motor vehicle from a trader, you enter into a legally binding contract and you are entitled to expect that it is of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, and as described. An older vehicle with high mileage may not be as good as a newer vehicle with low mileage, but it should still be fit for use on the road and in a condition that reflects its age and price.
> 
> Traders cannot take away consumers' rights by using terms such as 'sold as seen' or 'no refunds'. If you buy a used vehicle from a trader online, you may have additional rights under the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000. You do not have the same legal rights if you buy a vehicle from a private seller or an auction.
> 
> If the used vehicle is faulty, you have a short time after buying it to reject it. You may have other remedies such as repair or replacement. If the vehicle is faulty then you need to write to trader you bought it from. You should confirm the details of your complaint and the remedy you are seeking and keep copies of all correspondence. As a last resort, you may need to consider taking court action. Remember, used vehicles may have some faults, but they should not be excessive. Fair wear and tear is not considered to be a fault.


Was/is the car fully comprehensively insured? Couldn't they offer you free legal advice?

The faults mentioned make the car not roadworthy as it would fail an MOT... and MOT's are just that, a test of a car's road worthiness. I don't think the faults qualify as fair wear and tear as you have only had the car for a short time
I think they're just bluffing and know they sold you a crap car but will act aggressively to see if you back off. Good luck and I hope you manage to get your money back.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Thsbks for thay TheVarix, I did insure it but now off road as I'm in dispute with the trader but I have fully comprehensive insurance on my tt.
I don't know of they will offer any but I've sent an email to trading standards today so wait 3 days and see if they cab advise me.

Thanks again


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

TheVarix said:


> The faults mentioned make the car not roadworthy as it would fail an MOT... and MOT's are just that, a test of a car's road worthiness.


Careful. An MOT is only a check against a prescribed list of structural and safety criteria. It is a snapshot in time on the day in question, it does not infer any degree of roadworthiness beyond that point. If the gaiters split the next day that would be hard to prove. Just playing devils advocate you understand.

VT


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## lotuselanplus2s (Jun 18, 2012)

Good luck - hope it works out OK for you.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Von Twinzig said:


> TheVarix said:
> 
> 
> > The faults mentioned make the car not roadworthy as it would fail an MOT... and MOT's are just that, a test of a car's road worthiness.
> ...


Problem also being the cv joints are rumbling.
I have three mot testers that are saying fail fail fail after having a look and they also say it's been a while since they've been perished too.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

lotuselanplus2s said:


> Good luck - hope it works out OK for you.


 thanks


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## cbjroms (Nov 22, 2014)

Some really good and helpful advice here: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/consumer-rights/

Another thread at http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/sho ... ?t=2945574 is a little old but gives some good advice.

Bottom line - raising a case in the Small Claims Court is very easy and your case would appear to be sound.

Chris


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Sandy said:


> Problem also being the cv joints are rumbling.
> I have three mot testers that are saying fail fail fail after having a look and they also say it's been a while since they've been perished too.


I had a CV boot split one week after having a driveshaft replaced on a Golf rag top I owned and they looked just like that because the grease causes everything to stick to it.

Any "good" mechanic will know this from experience and I would seriously doubt you would get any of the three MOT testers to go on record with this strange statement.


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## HarveyTT (Sep 16, 2013)

I recently bought another car and the car turned out not as described so firstly I told them to rectify the issues which they attempted to but made it worse and damaged the car so I told I will be handing the car back and that's exactly what I did.

I spoke with trading standards and they put me in touch with citizens advice who gave me some good advice as mine was purchased on finance.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

HarveyTT said:


> I recently bought another car and the car turned out not as described so firstly I told them to rectify the issues which they attempted to but made it worse and damaged the car so I told I will be handing the car back and that's exactly what I did.
> 
> I spoke with trading standards and they put me in touch with citizens advice who gave me some good advice as mine was purchased on finance.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hi, yes it's easier on finance as you just don't pay and the finance company will help you all the way on this one.

Emailed trading standards and hopefully receive some news as of what I can do.
Thanks


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

cbjroms said:


> Some really good and helpful advice here: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/consumer-rights/
> 
> Another thread at http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/sho ... ?t=2945574 is a little old but gives some good advice.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the links cbjroms, I'm now awaiting a reply from citizens advice.

Will let you guys know what the end result is.


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## HeroicBroccoli (Jan 19, 2015)

Sandy said:


> cbjroms said:
> 
> 
> > Some really good and helpful advice here: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/consumer-rights/
> ...


Yup, this would be my advice, small claims court is very easy and straightforward, every time i've used it I've also claimed back the £20/30 for the court fees with no issue.


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## bigdodge (Apr 22, 2012)

It is not too difficult to raise a case in the small claims court. Bear in mind it is not plain sailing, if you we're to lose this case you have to think about a hefty lawyer fee for the accused. So have a good think about it before going ahead .


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## oz_p (Feb 7, 2011)

Doesnt the Sale of Goods Act have some clause which if you are not satisfied within a certain time frame you are entitled to refuse the product for a full refund if its not what was described etc at time of purchase?


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## cbjroms (Nov 22, 2014)

Costs in the small claims court are fairly limited: http://www.aboutsmallclaims.co.uk/who-p ... gment.html

Also, the key when making a claim is to provide evidence that you have been fair & reasonable. If the other party is being belligerent (ie a trader would be expected to know far more about the law than a consumer!) then that will also help.

Good luck.

Chris


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

This is from their solicitor

We refer to previous correspondence between you and our client, which we do not propose to rehearse.

We note the alleged faults.

In order for our client to consider your SOGA claim properly it must first have the opportunity to inspect the vehicle and offer repair, if appropriate.

Please now arrange for the vehicle to be returned for inspection soonest.

What do I do? As I don't want the car because they won't spray the whole car due to scratches


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

There's being realistic and then there's being unrealistic.

You want the whole car resprayed because of scratches.

Get real.

Whilst I'm all for consumer rights I know a few traders as many of you know and every so often you get a customer through the door who well you end up wishing you hadn't even allowed in the door

You need to decide what you want to complain about and prioritise the faults and stick to facts.

You've mentioned a faulty gearbox, CV boots and now a respray.......

I would guess he's already sussed you purely by the fact he's using a solicitor and creating a paper trail ready for evidence.

I'm not against you but you need to tread very carefully and stick to facts.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

oz_p said:


> Doesnt the Sale of Goods Act have some clause which if you are not satisfied within a certain time frame you are entitled to refuse the product for a full refund if its not what was described etc at time of purchase?


Hi oz_p, that's what I read too :?


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

jamman said:


> There's being realistic and then there's being unrealistic.
> 
> You want the whole car resprayed because of scratches.
> 
> ...


 NO I didnt say that

There are many scratches on the car which were not meant to be there as the description said>>> it has excellent body work LOVELY GOLF GTI WITH FULL SERVICEHISTORY HAVING BEEN MAINTAINED REGARDLESS OF COST*. I'm not shouting as this is how it was typed. Oh btw, when someone who sell top end motors like lamborghini maserati Porsche etc the last thing you'd expect is for them to lie and cheat you out of your hard earned money.

A lie is a lie no matter how small. End of


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## ReTTro fit (Nov 9, 2014)

Sandy, didn't you look at the paint / bodywork when you bought it or picked it up ?
I don't think you'd have a leg to stand on with the paint mate, it's not as if you bought it without seeing it first 
The gators, Yeh maybe but not paint work 
First thing they will say is that "you saw the car "

On iPhone using Tapacrap


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

1wheelonly said:


> Sandy, didn't you look at the paint / bodywork when you bought it or picked it up ?
> I don't think you'd have a leg to stand on with the paint mate, it's not as if you bought it without seeing it first
> The gators, Yeh maybe but not paint work
> First thing they will say is that "you saw the car "
> ...


That's the weirs thing, the car was full of dust so the scratches were not visible and when going to collect, the trader made me wait 3 hours even after I called to find out if the car was ready.
When they did let me see the car it was wet as some guy was cleaning it in the back of their showroom and in the night 530 ish pm. I think that was the plan so I couldn't go for the second test drive as I planned to do upon getting there at 2pm that afternoon.
I had a funny feeling something was wrong but couldn't figure out what it was.

Seriously I didn't think after what the trader said, assuring me everything was done and car was valeted and polished I just wanted to get home as 3 hours took the p


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Spandex said:


> bigdodge said:
> 
> 
> > Well you are just stating the facts you are not implying anything so I don't see anything wrong with this.
> ...


Hi Spandex, all factual and true so that's why I wondered what your thoughts were on it and thanks for the reassurance


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## Ian_W (Oct 19, 2008)

Sandy said:


> 1wheelonly said:
> 
> 
> > Sandy, didn't you look at the paint / bodywork when you bought it or picked it up ?
> ...


Sorry mate but I don't think you have a leg to stand on. It was your choice to drive the car away at 5.30pm, you could of opted to return the next day to inspect the car properly, claiming you thought the car was mint condition because it states so in the advert is very naive, I am sure every single person on this forum has been to see a car described as MINT and arrived to find a car which is anything but.


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## oz_p (Feb 7, 2011)

If it was me I'd just return the vehicle and ask for a refund, which you should be entitled to as I understand the law based upon you purchasing it from a dealer/trader..

Based upon all the faults and possible underhandedness by them I wouldnt want tha car or for them to have my money!


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

I think you have a reasonable claim regarding the mechanical items, and it sounds like they're now willing to look into these. However, if you don't give them the opportunity to fix the issues and just go straight to demanding a refund, it could negatively influence the courts should it get that far. A judge might take the view that you've not done enough to mitigate the issues by working with the garage, and that you just have buyers remorse and are looking for an easy way out of the deal.

As for the respray, I think you'd be absolutely insane to try to take that to court, and it would probably be enough to get the whole thing thrown out. As a buyer you are perfectly capable of visually inspecting a car for cosmetic damage before handing over your money. I think a judge would find it laughable that you're attempting to hold the garage responsible for that.


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## cbjroms (Nov 22, 2014)

It is for the OP to choose whether or not a repair is acceptable to him - not the trader. The SOGA says so.

Indeed, under the SOGA the consumer does not have to prove the goods were faulty at the time of sale. It is assumed that they were. If the retailer does not agree, it is for the retailer to prove that the goods were satisfactory at the time of sale.

Given the situation I would not be willing to allow the trader to take control of the car. He can inspect it on the OP's premises if he wishes. But there seems to be no doubt about the faults.

As regards the paintwork, I am more sympathetic than some to the OP. When you buy from a dealer then you should be able to accept their assurance as regards the condition of the paintwork. Whatsmore it seems that the dealer may have arranged the handover in such a way as to put the OP at a disadvantage. None of this matters if the OP wishes to reject the car and claim a full refund (onus would then be on the dealer to prove that the paitwork had been damaged by the OP).

The solicitor's response - We refer to previous correspondence between you and our client, which we do not propose to rehearse. We note the alleged faults. In order for our client to consider your SOGA claim properly it must first have the opportunity to inspect the vehicle and offer repair, if appropriate. Please now arrange for the vehicle to be returned for inspection soonest. - is a typical 'brush-off'. DO NOT be Intimidated.

I would respond by thanking the solicitor for the letter, summarising the list of faults with photos and offering a suitable time (suitable for you) for dealer to come and inspect the car on your premises. I would probably also make the point that if the dealer does not accept your offer the view the car then you will assume that he is content with the information that you have provided. You could also ask the solicitor to advise as to which part of the SOGA requires you to accept a repair rather than a full refund?

Under the circumstances I cannot see the Small Claims Court erring on the dealer's side.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

cbjroms said:


> It is for the OP to choose whether or not a repair is acceptable to him - not the trader. The SOGA says so.
> 
> Indeed, under the SOGA the consumer does not have to prove the goods were faulty at the time of sale. It is assumed that they were. If the retailer does not agree, it is for the retailer to prove that the goods were satisfactory at the time of sale.
> 
> ...


 Hi Chris, thank you for your comments and advise which I will take on board as this sounds more like what I'm looking to hear as I also read your links to SOGA and it does state I can ask for a full refund l.

will let you know once I've received a reply


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Spandex said:


> I think you have a reasonable claim regarding the mechanical items, and it sounds like they're now willing to look into these. However, if you don't give them the opportunity to fix the issues and just go straight to demanding a refund, it could negatively influence the courts should it get that far. A judge might take the view that you've not done enough to mitigate the issues by working with the garage, and that you just have buyers remorse and are looking for an easy way out of the deal.
> 
> As for the respray, I think you'd be absolutely insane to try to take that to court, and it would probably be enough to get the whole thing thrown out. As a buyer you are perfectly capable of visually inspecting a car for cosmetic damage before handing over your money. I think a judge would find it laughable that you're attempting to hold the garage responsible for that.


 Hi, I'm seriously not asking for the whole car to be resprayed but asking or wanting a full refund as the description was misleading and the seller assured me all was fine.
Also as cbjroms clearly understood where I'm coming from regards the handover. The delay in showing me the final product was misleading and a sly way to hide the defects. Maybe I should have left the car but I've got no time to run back and forth and it's very difficult to get time off work so took the traders words in good faith and drove off.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)




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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I was honestly under the impression that you wanted a respray (you did say this check your post) but rejecting the car as not as described is probably the way to go, you need to check the time frame 2/3 weeks might be too long

I would meet the dealer at their garage (maybe take someone with you) as it will be far easier to check car over and dealer lighting will also show paintwork defects up better.

Good luck


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

jamman said:


> I was honestly under the impression that you wanted a respray (you did say this check your post) but rejecting the car as not as described is probably the way to go, you need to check the time frame 2/3 weeks might be too long
> 
> I would meet the dealer at their garage (maybe take someone with you) as it will be far easier to check car over and dealer lighting will also show paintwork defects up better.
> 
> Good luck


No no  I didn't mean for them to paint the whole car lol

I just want what's right and what the trader did was totally wrong as I'm sure your trader friends wouldn't do that to anyone?.
The dealer are not to be trusted anymore and it's pointless doing things their way as they will just make up more lies like me and my friend were in their showroom looking at the body work with pure daylight when my friend wasn't even there the first time round when I went to view the car and seriously was dooped into believing ever word he said and what he's going to do before I even make the payment. Silly me had a feeling they were being dodgy when the car wasn't there but their words dazzled me in to buying it thinking it was the perfect spec and cleaned up to a high standard with all the scratches polished out. :x


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## cbjroms (Nov 22, 2014)

It is very important that the OP makes it clear from the start and in writing that he is not willing to accept a repair.

If the dealer takes control of the car and starts to repair then the onus could then be on the OP to prove that he did not agree to a repair.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Im not sure it's as clear cut as that. Precedents have been set in cases where it's been stated that you must give the dealer three chances to rectify a fault, although I believe recent changes to the law mean that this has reduced to just one chance. The specifics of the case would determine if this applies to the Op, but I don't think we have enough information to make blanket statements.

Also, much of the case law seems to have come from situations involving new cars too, and I'm sure having to factor in the expectation of wear and tear that comes with a used car purchase would only make the outcome less black and white.

I'm not saying the OP shouldn't ask for a full refund, as there is a fair chance the dealer would give in to avoid further hassle, but thats not necessarily a reflection of their legal obligations.

There was a case a while ago involving a new TT, where the owner took the dealer to court and ended up with a bill for £100k of legal fees after the judge sided with the dealer (expert technical witnesses don't come cheap). The legalities were different from the OPs situation, but it's a valuable warning about getting in over your head because you've let yourself be convinced you can't lose.


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## merlin c (Jan 25, 2012)

100K...as in £100,000  oops :?


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Spandex said:


> Im not sure it's as clear cut as that. Precedents have been set in cases where it's been stated that you must give the dealer three chances to rectify a fault, although I believe recent changes to the law mean that this has reduced to just one chance. The specifics of the case would determine if this applies to the Op, but I don't think we have enough information to make blanket statements.
> 
> Also, much of the case law seems to have come from situations involving new cars too, and I'm sure having to factor in the expectation of wear and tear that comes with a used car purchase would only make the outcome less black and white.
> 
> ...


 He took the dealer to court as he thought there was a fault with his car pulling to the left and most of us know that all cars pull slightly to the left whether new or old so that wasn't the dealers fault. Yes 100,000

My case is totally different where the seller has lied about the condition of the car and it's written in bold that the car body is in excellent bodywork for all to see on the advert. I still have a picture of the advert as this maybe crucial to the case if it does come to that.

thanks


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

cbjroms said:


> It is very important that the OP makes it clear from the start and in writing that he is not willing to accept a repair.
> 
> If the dealer takes control of the car and starts to repair then the onus could then be on the OP to prove that he did not agree to a repair.


Will be writing to the solicitor today.

Thank you


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Sandy said:


> He took the dealer to court as he thought there was a fault with his car pulling to the left and most of us know that all cars pull slightly to the left whether new or old so that wasn't the dealers fault. Yes 100,000
> 
> My case is totally different where the seller has lied about the condition of the car and it's written in bold that the car body is in excellent bodywork for all to see on the advert. I still have a picture of the advert as this maybe crucial to the case if it does come to that.
> 
> thanks


Yes, I said the legalities were totally different. It was more a warning about the consequences of becoming convinced the judge will side with you. The judge in that case made a point of chastising both sides and their legal teams for allowing it to continue to that point.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Looks like they are not interested in refunding my money so time for small claims. :x


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Sandy said:


> Looks like they are not interested in refunding my money so time for small claims. :x


What have they said ?


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

No further replies from them, not even the solicitor.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Sandy said:


> No further replies from them, not even the solicitor.


Have they inspected the car on the points you are not happy with ?


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

jamman said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > No further replies from them, not even the solicitor.
> ...


No mate, they haven't.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Sandy said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > Sandy said:
> ...


In that case email them requesting a date/time for an inspection and if they don't reply that will help you in claiming a refund


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Yes I did reply with this added and that on the 2nd feb but no reply to it.

I asked for dealer to come and inspect the car on your premises. I also asked the solicitor to advise as to which part of the SOGA required me to accept a repair rather than a full refund.


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## mstew (Mar 17, 2012)

May sound silly but what about hiring high court enforcement officers? The payee pays the bill when the money is recovered and being a business they are going to be in when the officers come knocking. No mucking about IIRC, well, that's what the TV show about them taught me anyway :lol:

EDIT; You need a 'high court writ'. Thats the word I was thinking of.


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## J•RED (Feb 10, 2013)

mstew said:


> May sound silly but what about hiring high court enforcement officers? The payee pays the bill when the money is recovered and being a business they are going to be in when the officers come knocking. No mucking about IIRC, well, that's what the TV show about them taught me anyway :lol:
> 
> EDIT; You need a 'high court writ'. Thats the word I was thinking of.


Can't you only get the enforcement officers involved if the company loses the case at a court? Sounds as though you are saying they're for hire to any one.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

J•RED said:


> mstew said:
> 
> 
> > May sound silly but what about hiring high court enforcement officers? The payee pays the bill when the money is recovered and being a business they are going to be in when the officers come knocking. No mucking about IIRC, well, that's what the TV show about them taught me anyway :lol:
> ...


 I think the case needs to go to court and if the case is won then I can get a writ if required?.
it says on the Web page that, if you want to prepare the paperwork yourself, when you get form N293a you must complete parts 1 and 3 and send these to the Court where the judgment was made.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

J•RED said:


> mstew said:
> 
> 
> > May sound silly but what about hiring high court enforcement officers? The payee pays the bill when the money is recovered and being a business they are going to be in when the officers come knocking. No mucking about IIRC, well, that's what the TV show about them taught me anyway :lol:
> ...


Didn't even see the above but yes your right J•RED


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## mstew (Mar 17, 2012)

My bad. Was ages since I watched the show. Hope it all comes through for you anyway. I would definitely consider it though as even if you win in court who knows what stupid agreement terms will be allowed. Sounds like they've got cold feet!


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

mstew said:


> My bad. Was ages since I watched the show. Hope it all comes through for you anyway. I would definitely consider it though as even if you win in court who knows what stupid agreement terms will be allowed. Sounds like they've got cold feet!


No worries mstew, I've just been onto the CAB and they told me to type a third and final letter threatening court action and if I still get no reply I'll stand a better chance in small claims court were i can also claim all costs along with the full amount paid for the car.

Also said print out the original sale ad and that will help as the car was not as described which it wasn't.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Just received an email saying

Dear Sir

We refer to your letter dated 2 February.

Our letter of the 29 January was clear enough.

If you require our client to consider your claim the vehicle must be returned to it for inspection purposes.

Our client may offer repair, if appropriate.

It is a matter for you whether or not you choose to accept any such offer.

You will understand that it is not for us to advise you.

Once again, may we respectfully suggest that you contact our client soonest to arrange return of the vehicle for inspection purposes.

If you are not prepared to comply with such request then with regret there is nothing more that can be done to assist.

Should you have any doubt as to the nature and effect of this request then you may wish to seek independent legal advice.

We await your considered response.

Yours faithfully


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

And?

VT


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Von Twinzig said:


> And?
> 
> VT


I sent them a letter email asking them to come and view the car at my home or place of work which is why they sent the above letter.
What should I do now as ive got no time to take the car and think better to go straight to small claims court with this?.


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

Honestly, I'd find the time or someone to take it to them. It will weaken your case if you take up an intransigent position. Much better to hold all the moral high ground rather than part of it. If it came to court they would just say "We offered to inspect it, but to do so correctly the car needed to be at our garage, Mr xxx refused to bring it to us so we could carry out the inspection." A metaphoric arrow will then thud into your chest, Robin Hood stylee. Just my 2 cents having spent quite a few years in the construction industry negotiating claims. But it's your choice.

VT


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

I don't get time off work and have expressed this in my email 2nd feb to the solicitors but it took them till this morning to reply.
They have disregarded what I said and also asked them by replying with the above.
Worrying if they have the car and want to use vagcom to do their diagnosis?.

Wouldn't vw dealer be a safer bet?.


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## nat11911 (Mar 24, 2012)

To be honest, I think it's perfectly reasonable for the seller to ask you to return for an inspection - they'll have a ramp, tools, colleagues to consult, etc. - and if things need replacing they may well have the bits in stock or be able to get them delivered quickly as they'll have relationships with parts suppliers.

I know it's inconvenient (I had to take time off work and drive over 100 miles to do this once), but as Von Twinzig says, if you refuse to take it back you probably won't have a cat in hell's chance of winning the case.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Sandy do what they ask and take another person with you then reject their offer of repair and request a full refund


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

nat11911 said:


> To be honest, I think it's perfectly reasonable for the seller to ask you to return for an inspection - they'll have a ramp, tools, colleagues to consult, etc. - and if things need replacing they may well have the bits in stock or be able to get them delivered quickly as they'll have relationships with parts suppliers.
> 
> I know it's inconvenient (I had to take time off work and drive over 100 miles to do this once), but as Von Twinzig says, if you refuse to take it back you probably won't have a cat in hell's chance of winning the case.


They don't have a ramp or close by garage as the get the work done from another place so my guess is they'll try polish the body and probably even hide the scratches with black polish if i have to leave the car there which seems like the way it will be.

I think I'll call up CAB again as to what I should do now. Thank you


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

jamman said:


> Sandy do what they ask and take another person with you then reject their offer of repair and request a full refund


Jamman read above thanks


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## Ian_W (Oct 19, 2008)

I don't think you are going to get very far if you don't take it back to them for an inspection, I wouldn't say it is unreasonable for them to expect to look at it themselves.

Will you be happy with the car if they fix the faults?


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Ian_W said:


> I don't think you are going to get very far if you don't take it back to them for an inspection, I wouldn't say it is unreasonable for them to expect to look at it themselves.
> 
> Will you be happy with the car if they fix the faults?


Question isn't will I be happy but will the scratches just disappear or the bodywork be in excellent condition? No, so I'm looking for a full refund. No repairs.


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## Ian_W (Oct 19, 2008)

I know how you feel but I struggle to see how you will get anywhere with the body work?? Surely you looked at the car before you bought it and decided it was good enough irreverent of the description of the car in the advert?

Car dealers using fillers and colour polishes is not exactly unheard of! When I bought my S3 it looked awesome until I drove it the 1.5 hours home in torrential rain which stripped it off the shitty polish and clearly showed the pebble dashed bonnet, wings and bumper


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Ian_W said:


> I know how you feel but I struggle to see how you will get anywhere with the body work?? Surely you looked at the car before you bought it and decided it was good enough irreverent of the description of the car in the advert?
> 
> Car dealers using fillers and colour polishes is not exactly unheard of! When I bought my S3 it looked awesome until I drove it the 1.5 hours home in torrential rain which stripped it off the shitty polish and clearly showed the pebble dashed bonnet, wings and bumper


That's the thing ian: I didn't get a proper look as the guy said once it has been polished and valeted I wouldn't be disappointed so mislead me into thinking the car was prim and proper but hidden under the dirt were lots of marks scratches. So deceiving.


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

Courts generally look at what is reasonable.

Q: Was it _reasonable_ for you as the customer to notice damage to the bodywork? Probably, unless you're registered blind, in which case A) you shouldn't be driving and B) if you are you wouldn't care. It requires no particular skill. It's objective. It's no more or less than you would do if you were renting a hire car.

Q: Was it _reasonable _for you to notice mechanical deficiencies under the car? Probably not. You're not a mechanical engineer (are you?) and most buyers going through a dealer wouldn't grovel about underneath to make the necessary checks. Your difficulty will be proving the spilt gators didn't happen one minute thirty seconds after you took receipt and drove off down the road.

Personally, I'd try and get the dealer to do all the work to your satisfaction. I think the chances of him turning over and giving you your money back are slim. If that was likely it would have happened by now.

As I say, just my 2 cents. And unless fuelled by alcohol I do live in the real world.

VT


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Very true but as I keep saying the scratches were well hidden with the dirt and then I didn't get a chance to see the car in the daylight as promised as the car wasn't there when going to collect it lol
They will have to come and collect the car from me and also drop it back once things have been done as I'm not taking it to them.
That will be tonight's letter to the solicitors once again as the trader is responsible for this in the first 6 months of purchase to collect or pay to have the vehicle back to them to check over and as ive asked the Citizens advice bureau who have advised me to send another letter stipulating this as my rights they have to obey by this or it will go against them in court.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

How old is that car, what's the car and how many miles ?


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

jamman said:


> How old is that car, what's the car and how many miles ?


55 reg 06 golf gti with what was meant to be 65000 miles but ended up with extra 4k miles on it since the MOT


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Sandy said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > How old is that car, what's the car and how many miles ?
> ...


Whilst trying to be diplomatic that's quite an old car Sandy.

When you first complained about the car it was about the gearbox is that still an issue because that's a far far stronger case than your paintwork issue (in my opinion)


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Yes it's an old car but the body says otherwise unlike my tt which does have minor asda ding dongs but nothing like the Golf in any case.

Jamman it's everything not just the dsg but the cv joints rumbling, cv boots split but I guess the faulty gearbox would stand out more in this case but I guess everything adds up.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Butter wouldn't melt


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

OVERALL IN GOOD CONDITION INSIDE AND OUT ??


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## Ian_W (Oct 19, 2008)

Wow, overall good condition and you are expecting a 9/10 year old car not to have scratches :/

Sorry but overall good condition to me says "old car, it is what it is"


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## triplefan (Sep 3, 2008)

Is paint included in "bodywork" and as summed up "overall good condition" they're not claiming excellent or immaculate...


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## Tangerine Knight (Jul 25, 2010)

Sorry to say it but there is a massive difference between good and immaculate,although saying that think you have got a chance with the mechanical problems


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## mountbattencars (Jan 17, 2014)

If I was the dealer in question I would be sweating about the DSG issues........ This is your tool to get what you want, for less that £100 you could have your car road tested and a brief report written up and provided by a gearbox specialist.

unfortunately like many others have said on here you have no hope of the bodywork gripes you have.

A car is the second biggest purchase of almost everyone's life so ensure you inspect it properly before parting with your hard earned even if it inconveniences you. The judge will only re iterate this.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

jamman said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > jamman said:
> ...


Yes the gearbox is still the main issue.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Ian_W said:


> Wow, overall good condition and you are expecting a 9/10 year old car not to have scratches :/
> 
> Sorry but overall good condition to me says "old car, it is what it is"


My tt has less marks on it and that's a 2000 reg lol
This car isn't even 6/10 and for what I paid for it and what was meant to be done before handover I wasn't impressed.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

triplefan said:


> Is paint included in "bodywork" and as summed up "overall good condition" they're not claiming excellent or immaculate...


The guy did claim excellent paint work when I went to see it but obviously not.


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## triplefan (Sep 3, 2008)

Well OK, not in print anyway, and I have no idea here you stand with a verbal contract.

Coming back to the gearbox, have you had it scanned, does it show any faults?


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

triplefan said:


> Well OK, not in print anyway, and I have no idea here you stand with a verbal contract.
> 
> Coming back to the gearbox, have you had it scanned, does it show any faults?


Honestly speaking, the car has sat idle since I found these problems as I was following trading standards instructions not to use the car so I haven't had the car diagnosed anywhere.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

This is so confusing to me.

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi- ... 3-1011.txt


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## SBL (May 9, 2014)

I wouldn't like to be in this position mate. I hope you get a successful outcome but looking at the facts, I doubt it.
You've had the car a month now, didn't complain until after 2 weeks. You appear to have taken the car with what you now believe to be a gearbox issue but still nothing is proven.
Reading that document, I think a good result is getting the gearbox repaired and nothing more. And that's assuming there is actually something wrong as that still hasn't been proven.
Just my opinion of course.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Sandy said:


> This is so confusing to me.
> 
> http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi- ... 3-1011.txt


It's not that bad Sandy just edit the doc and remove all the bits that don't apply to you, private sale, Internet sale etc.

You need to take the car to the dealer and talk to them about why you are not happy, but go prepared it worries me you haven't had the gearbox scanned as to me this is the only avenue you may get some joy.

I know you keep mentioning the paintwork but to my eyes that's a TOTAL non starter


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

I agree with Mountbatten, your best chance of a result is the box. You should get an expert engineers report in your pocket before they shoot your fox. Focussing too much on the scratches is a mistake in my opinion.

VT


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## Stochman (Aug 16, 2013)

mountbattencars said:


> If I was the dealer in question I would be sweating about the DSG issues........ This is your tool to get what you want, for less that £100 you could have your car road tested and a brief report written up and provided by a gearbox specialist.
> 
> unfortunately like many others have said on here you have no hope of the bodywork gripes you have.
> 
> A car is the second biggest purchase of almost everyone's life so ensure you inspect it properly before parting with your hard earned even if it inconveniences you. The judge will only re iterate this.


^^^^This^^^^^

Stop going around the houses and do exactly the above, and forget about the paintwork issues as you've no chance of recompense for that IMHO, other than perhaps a goodwill machine polish.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Time is an issue here Sandy so you need to take the car to them and get the wheels in motion (so to speak)

Don't be tricky about seeing them because it will just make you look unreasonable if you go to court.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

jamman said:


> Time is an issue here Sandy so you need to take the car to them and get the wheels in motion (so to speak)
> 
> Don't be tricky about seeing them because it will just make you look unreasonable if you go to court.


Yeah sure it's in the process now as I can't do anything till the weekend if I can get time off work but it's not looking good with where I work 
Citizens advice bureau said the trader has the burden of proving the faults weren't there and they have to collect the car from me if it hasn't been over six months. Just saying.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

SBL said:


> I wouldn't like to be in this position mate. I hope you get a successful outcome but looking at the facts, I doubt it.
> You've had the car a month now, didn't complain until after 2 weeks. You appear to have taken the car with what you now believe to be a gearbox issue but still nothing is proven.
> Reading that document, I think a good result is getting the gearbox repaired and nothing more. And that's assuming there is actually something wrong as that still hasn't been proven.
> Just my opinion of course.


Tbh I didn't even look at the car till two weeks later as it was sat at the bottom of the work place and I was busy with work. It was only until I insured it one Saturday that I went down and noticed all the scratches. The gear box judders into drive and reverse and this wasn't apparent at the time of viewing but as I said they didn't allow me to drive the car on collection as it wasn't on site as one of their staff went off for 3 hours and got back at 5 so it was worrying as to why they didn't want me to check the car over during the day now thinking about it.

I'm all for opinions so don't worry I won't get upset as it's my fault for not waiting another day but living nearly 2 hours drive away I took their word for it.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

jamman said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > This is so confusing to me.
> ...


 cool I'll keep that in mind when discussing why I'm not happy with this car and see what happens but I know from my conversations on the phone with the seller that he's one cheeky pri** and lies through his teeth.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Sandy said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > Time is an issue here Sandy so you need to take the car to them and get the wheels in motion (so to speak)
> ...


I would not allow the dealer to come and take the car away it allows them to do whatever they want when scanning etc

I would go with the car to the dealers location and also onto the inspection garage (with a witness) and state what you are not happy about.

Don't take this the wrong way but WTF does this stupid "just saying" that I keep seeing mean ?


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

jamman said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > jamman said:
> ...


 :lol: I don't know 

I'm not making up any excuses here as I want this matter dealt with ASAP.

Basically the way these feckers work is they will guaranteed say I'll have to leave the car with them or wait whilst they take it to whoever they use to do their repairs and the garage being a friend of the trader doesn't help me much.

Example; I've come to your garage but you don't have a scanning tool so the guy you use is busy and won't be able to do a scan today blah blah bullshit.

you understand what I'm getting at?.


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## SBL (May 9, 2014)

Sandy, I'd say you need to contact them directly and make suitable arrangements ASAP. Even if you can't get to them quick, get something arranged.
Every day you leave it unsettled can surely only make the outcome potentially worse for you and stronger for them.
We can see you've set your sights on a full refund but it appears looking at the document you linked to, best case is a repair and even that's currently not definite given no proof of an issue.
I think for your own sake, start considering a worst case result and how a more friendly or realistic approach with the garage may make the most for you.


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## Stochman (Aug 16, 2013)

Sandy said:


> Tbh I didn't even look at the car till two weeks later as it was sat at the bottom of the work place and I was busy with work. It was only until I insured it one Saturday that I went down and noticed all the scratches.


lol, If I were you I wouldn't write that up in your complaint if this goes to court. Absolutely no one, a judge or anybody else, is going to believe that you purchased a car and then didn't so much as look at it for a fortnight.

Just saying


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Grrrrrrr :lol:


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Stochman said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > Tbh I didn't even look at the car till two weeks later as it was sat at the bottom of the work place and I was busy with work. It was only until I insured it one Saturday that I went down and noticed all the scratches.
> ...


Lol its the truth though  my life is well busy with work and as the days were short it was difficult to even check my water and oil on the tt lol don't worry I knew it was fine and didn't need a top up but just saying. And thanks


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## cbjroms (Nov 22, 2014)

Sandy,

Your rights as a consumer are clear and have been confirmed by the Citizens Advice Bureau (said the trader has the burden of proving the faults weren't there and they have to collect the car from me if it hasn't been over six months). The discussion of the paintwork is a distraction - you are entitled to a refund because the dealer sold you are car that now has a significant fault which means that it was not of satisfactory quality when it was sold. End of.

You do not have to accept a repair, nor take time off work to allow the dealer to inspect it. The law says so. You must allow the dealer reasonable access to inspect the car to confirm that the fault exists BUT must not do anything which allows him to repair it. In your position, and given your distrust of the dealer, I would not allow him to take control of the car and would be happy to explain this to the court. You have every right to protect your position.

Suggest you check all this again with Citizens Advice Bureau but my advice would be to accept the finality of the solicitor's latest letter (he has effectively closed-down the opportunity to negotiate) and raise a case in the small claims court (moneyclaim online) which is extremely quick and easy.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

cbjroms said:


> Sandy,
> 
> Your rights as a consumer are clear and have been confirmed by the Citizens Advice Bureau (said the trader has the burden of proving the faults weren't there and they have to collect the car from me if it hasn't been over six months). The discussion of the paintwork is a distraction - you are entitled to a refund because the dealer sold you are car that now has a significant fault which means that it was not of satisfactory quality when it was sold. End of.
> 
> ...


Thank you cbjroms

here is the solicitors last email.

Dear Sir

We refer to your letter dated 2 February.

Our letter of the 29 January was clear enough.

If you require our client to consider your claim the vehicle must be returned to it for inspection purposes.

Our client may offer repair, if appropriate.

It is a matter for you whether or not you choose to accept any such offer.

You will understand that it is not for us to advise you.

Once again, may we respectfully suggest that you contact our client soonest to arrange return of the vehicle for inspection purposes.

If you are not prepared to comply with such request then with regret there is nothing more that can be done to assist.

Should you have any doubt as to the nature and effect of this request then you may wish to seek independent legal advice.
We await your considered response.
Yours faithfully

Lawgistics


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

This doesn't even worry me in the slightest as it sounds like a threat to scare me off lol


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Question?. What are the chances of one of the clutches being damaged?. 
Did a diagnostics check with my mates delphi and found not dsg fault it self but he's saying the clutch packs.
Thanks again


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Sandy said:


> This doesn't even worry me in the slightest as it sounds like a threat to scare me off lol


Sandy there is no threat in the letter so it shouldnt scare you.

They are basically saying

that they are the dealers solicitor

this is what the dealer wants to do

they can't advise you (for obvious reasons)

you need to act

if you need advice get it

Where's the threats ?

I can't understand why you are dragging this on mate.

PS no one can advise you on your gearbox you haven't even had the car scanned......


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

jamman said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > This doesn't even worry me in the slightest as it sounds like a threat to scare me off lol
> ...


 Sorry jamman, read above thanks


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

cbjroms said:


> Sandy,
> 
> Your rights as a consumer are clear and have been confirmed by the Citizens Advice Bureau (said the trader has the burden of proving the faults weren't there and they have to collect the car from me if it hasn't been over six months). The discussion of the paintwork is a distraction - you are entitled to a refund because the dealer sold you are car that now has a significant fault which means that it was not of satisfactory quality when it was sold. End of.
> 
> ...


What significant fault ?


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Sandy believe me I'm on your side

BUT

YOU HAVE TO TALK TO THEM TO SORT IT ! ! ! ! !


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

jamman said:


> Sandy believe me I'm on your side
> 
> BUT
> 
> YOU HAVE TO TALK TO THEM TO SORT IT ! ! ! ! !


Seriously jamman I'm not saying anyone on here is being horrible but I need to wait on the final letter and then make my move as when trying to talk to the trader, he doesn't allow me to talk so basically not interested in what I have to say.
I'll call them when I have a spare half an hour this weekend and see if this can be resolved. Mechatronic seems ok as the scan came up with no fault code to it but I did get this


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## Stochman (Aug 16, 2013)

I'm starting to think that you bought a mk1 TT, found you didn't like it, and are now looking for any potential reason to be able to return it.

Kinell, this is dragging on more than an Eastenders punch line now :lol:


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## crono35 (Dec 27, 2013)

I believe this is all over a GTI, not a TT...


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## Stochman (Aug 16, 2013)

crono35 said:


> I believe this is all over a GTI, not a TT...


Ok, obviously I lost the will to live somewhere along this thread.


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

Stochman said:


> Kinell, this is dragging on more than an Eastenders punch line now :lol:


I'm just waiting for the thing to look like it's getting settled and we think.."Thank f***k for that" when the the phone rings and the dealer picks it up. Play the doof doof's. It _has_ to be the final cliché :lol:

VT


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Not funny guys


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## YSA107 (May 23, 2014)

They are only saying what most are thinking. This has dragged on far too long. This thread is a couple of weeks old and I assume you've had the car a few weeks before that so you've had the car 1-2 months without even having the car looked at by them?

I'm sure they'll throw in that maybe there were no faults and everything you mention has happened in the time you've had it. Get them or an independent garage to look at it and document the issues for them asap.


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## northern_mike (Feb 2, 2015)

Your time is fast running out. Get it inspected by them asap. In theory you have six months to reject it, but for a used car, terms like "satisfactory quality" come into play with regards to mileage and age.

By stalling them and not cooperating, you're giving them an easy way out. They'll simply turn round and say that it's been two/three/four months since the sale and the faults weren't apparent when it was sold.

Their solicitor has told you how to proceed. You've been told on here how to proceed. If you're not going to take that advice.... well, then it's going to be your loss isn't it?

Just saying...

Sent from cold, windy place.


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## SBL (May 9, 2014)

Another week further down the road, Sandy.
Have you progessed your issue yet? talked to them more?


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## Stochman (Aug 16, 2013)

SBL said:


> Another week further down the road, Sandy.
> Have you progessed your issue yet? talked to them more?


I think someone killed Sandy, like I said this thread has been like an Eastenders storyline :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

All I can guess is that since Sandy hasn't commented he's decided to keep stum as he has been online.

Hope it all works out anyway


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, Do we have to wait until April 1st ? :lol: :wink: 
Hoggy.


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## SgtFatknacker (Apr 6, 2014)

This can't still be going on, shirley......(old peoples joke..  )


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## SBL (May 9, 2014)

Damn, thought there was some new exciting updates to read up on.


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## Spliffy (May 3, 2013)

And don't call me Shirley :lol:


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Shirley there must be an end to this story Sandy ?


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## stillchillin (Oct 29, 2009)

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :?


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

jamman said:


> Shirley there must be an end to this story Sandy ?


----------



## triplefan (Sep 3, 2008)

This has gone very quiet...the suspense is killing me :roll:


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## SBL (May 9, 2014)

Maybe he's,,,,
"Stranded at the drive in
Branded a fool
What will they say
Monday at school?"


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

SBL said:


> Maybe he's,,,,
> "Stranded at the drive in
> Branded a fool
> What will they say
> Monday at school?"


I've held off soooo many times


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Sorry but my life doesn't revolve around a car forum so children keep their pathetic comments to them selves :lol: 
Misses is unwell so ive been taking care of her as mini me is almost here.

Trader is saying there is nothing wrong with the gearbox so I've now gone the small claims route as the car is jerking continuously and seems like it's going to shut off.

Spoke to a mechatronic specialist who says the car won't show a fault code all the time as ive had it scanned three times now.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Sandy said:


> Sorry but my life doesn't revolve around a car forum so children keep their pathetic comments to them selves :lol:
> Misses is unwell so ive been taking care of her as mini me is almost here.
> 
> Trader is saying there is nothing wrong with the gearbox so I've now gone the small claims route as the car is jerking continuously and seems like it's going to shut off.
> ...


How does the dealer explain the constant jerkiness and that it "seems" like it's going to shut off ?

I'm surprised the mech specialist said that as fault codes are stored ?

PS you have been logging in everyday ;-)


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

The trader says it's normal for dsg to jerking but I've read something on the net from jabbasport that it should be very smooth :?

There are no fault codes stored but I'm thinking it's the clutch packs causing this as said by three mechanics.

No mate I didn't log out of here which is probably why I'm online.


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## CaptRon (Mar 4, 2011)

Sandy said:


> The trader says it's normal for dsg to jerking but I've read something on the net from jabbasport that it should be very smooth :?
> 
> There are no fault codes stored but I'm thinking it's the clutch packs causing this as said by three mechanics.
> 
> No mate I didn't log out of here which is probably why I'm online.


This is a load of crap... I took my A3 DSG to the dealer 3 times while it was under warranty with the same issue that you have and three times they said that there was no fault code and tried to convince me that it was "normal" for the DSG to grab and jerk when accelerating from a full stop. I knew better because my TT is also a DSG and it's smooth. The fourth time the technician found it was not normal... replaced the mechatronic and since it accelerates smoothly. A month later I received the letter from Audi (America) telling me that my car could have a defective transmission.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I agree DSG should be smooth the only thing that's bothers me about it is the hesitation you get.

What did the garage say about the CV boots and your paintwork complaint ?


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## Sib (Jul 18, 2010)

Not read whole thread just page one and two of the last pages.

In short it looks like you've started legal proceedings. I worked in the criminal and civil courts in the past. Your best bet is to go and speak to the dealer himself in person rather than playing silly bugger with letters. Secondly have you contacted VW to see if any recalls or known issues exist as this may well be something that could help.

Have you considered the clutch as well, maybe if you go back to the dealers maybe you could arrange for them to check it out of courtesy unless you've burnt all your bridges.

Legal action should be a very last result, reason I say this is the liability, I've sat in cases involving cars, judges are also human and can make some stupid decisions on their judgements, I sat in a case where the dealer was beyond helpful and more than fair, he should of won the case as the buyer was beyond a c0ck. But judge ruled 50/50 which made both parties liable to 50% of the £5k legal bill.

Remember the case can go 50/50 or there way, in which case 50% of all costs or all costs go to you. But if solicitors are involved at his end negotiations person to person may become difficult.

Also CAB have some awful advisors, hope you have one that knows what he's doing, as in the example stated the buyer who took the garage to court was represented by the CAB and they took a pretty nasty offensive which did no favours in the judges eyes.


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## SBL (May 9, 2014)

Wise words above I reckon.
Completely different scenario but I once went to court as I wouldn't accept 50/50 blame in a traffic accident. I was driving in a filter lane out of a roundabout and a woman drove across 2 lanes directly into the side of me. Even the eye witness said 100% her fault.
It went to court and the judge called it 50/50 and as she had claimed for whiplash and swelling of the hands, she walked away with cash in her pocket. Solicitors sent me a letter apologising for the result as had no idea how judge came to find that way.
Judges, they are normal people and do make mistakes.


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Any news Sandy ?


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Hello, nothing. They don't respond or come to take the car back as I wouldn't drive it there as it could break down because it's gotten worse. I need to do a small claims but finding it difficult to type on the pc as the page keeps on freezing on me.
Also fees have gone up to £410 because my claim will be between £5000-15000

Need to do his asap as times running out and I've had the car for nearly two months


----------



## A8VCG (May 9, 2011)

Sandy said:


> Hello, nothing. They don't respond or come to take the car back as I wouldn't drive it there as it could break down because it's gotten worse. I need to do a small claims but finding it difficult to type on the pc as the page keeps on freezing on me.
> Also fees have gone up to £410 because my claim will be between £5000-15000
> 
> Need to do his asap as rims running out and I've had the car for nearly two months


As you have intimated your intention to claim through trading standards please keep us all updated here as it is good to share info.

If you paid with your credit card there is also another route for you to explore. Your credit card provider will take on board your account of the transaction and with you going through trading standards they can act in your best interests.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Have you called them and told them it's got worse mate ?

Communication seems a real issue here.


----------



## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

A8VCG said:


> If you paid with your credit card there is also another route for you to explore. Your credit card provider will take on board your account of the transaction and with you going through trading standards they can act in your best interests.


That was a "No" established some time back in the thread. :?

VT


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

jamman said:


> Have you called them and told them it's got worse mate ?
> 
> Communication seems a real issue here.


They are not interested, they keep on saying call the warranty company. AA warranty.


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

A8VCG said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > Hello, nothing. They don't respond or come to take the car back as I wouldn't drive it there as it could break down because it's gotten worse. I need to do a small claims but finding it difficult to type on the pc as the page keeps on freezing on me.
> ...


 unfortunately is was part cash part debit card so won't get any joy there


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## triplefan (Sep 3, 2008)

Sandy said:


> hey don't respond or come to take the car back as I wouldn't drive it there as it could break down because it's gotten worse.


It seems to me you have played right into their hands

I am no expert but I can't help but feel that you may have prejudiced your claim by not complying with their offer/request.

Consider this..it may have been in your best interest for it to actually break down on the way :!:


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

triplefan said:


> Consider this..it may have been in your best interest for it to actually break down on the way :!:


An excellent point!


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

triplefan said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > hey don't respond or come to take the car back as I wouldn't drive it there as it could break down because it's gotten worse.
> ...


Under the SOGA it states stop using the faulty goods and contact the trader immediately which is what I've complied with and so far I've tried to assist the trader but they are not helping with the situation.


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

I don't want to appear flippant, but I can't help feeling if this was a £150 microwave, you'd have been back to the customers services desk in John Lewis in a heartbeat. I'm sorry Sandy, but I just can't figure out your strategy. I hope you're not sitting there relying on free advice from the CAB to carry the day. That play is fraught wih pitfalls.

VT


----------



## VdoubleU (Jan 29, 2015)

Feel really sorry for you with what has happened! At least it gives a word of warning to other people.

Also, every one should voice complaints in person or at least by phone. Emails/letters can very easily come across really arsey, even if you try your best not to, and put people off wanting to help. Heck, look on most internet forums where arguments start from people miss interpreting what someone's wrote.

Hope every thing gets sorted out for you!


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

VdoubleU said:


> Feel really sorry for you with what has happened! At least it gives a word of warning to other people.
> 
> Also, every one should voice complaints in person or at least by phone. Emails/letters can very easily come across really arsey, even if you try your best not to, and put people off wanting to help. Heck, look on most internet forums where arguments start from people miss interpreting what someone's wrote.
> 
> Hope every thing gets sorted out for you!


Thanks for your comments, probable being these ****** are or were ever beyond helping as this was their whole intention. To sell the car and fob me off to the warranty provider. The pri** assured me the cv joints and boots were fine and that the gear box or and gears were fine and there won't be any problems and now look more than one problem so it's going to have to be the hard way now.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Von Twinzig said:


> I don't want to appear flippant, but I can't help feeling if this was a £150 microwave, you'd have been back to the customers services desk in John Lewis in a heartbeat. I'm sorry Sandy, but I just can't figure out your strategy. I hope you're not sitting there relying on free advice from the CAB to carry the day. That play is fraught wih pitfalls.
> 
> VT


I was following SOGA with letters first second and final without avail so now I'm having to go the small claims route as I don't see this trader willing to help in anyway what so ever.


----------



## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

Sandy said:


> Von Twinzig said:
> 
> 
> > I don't want to appear flippant, but I can't help feeling if this was a £150 microwave, you'd have been back to the customers services desk in John Lewis in a heartbeat. I'm sorry Sandy, but I just can't figure out your strategy. I hope you're not sitting there relying on free advice from the CAB to carry the day. That play is fraught wih pitfalls.
> ...


I hope it all goes well. You must be heartily sick of it all by now. :?

VT


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Von Twinzig said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > Von Twinzig said:
> ...


I know it's going to be a pain and months of p taking by the trader but it has to be done either way.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Decided to call AA warranty cover and see what hey could do about the issues but they said the cars not covered as the issues were there when the car was purchased. Wtf [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

Sandy said:


> Decided to call AA warranty cover and see what hey could do about the issues but they said the cars not covered as the issues were there when the car was purchased. Wtf [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]


The AA thing's a good thing, isn't it? Adds professional, independent weight to your argument.

VT


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Sandy said:


> Decided to call AA warranty cover and see what hey could do about the issues but they said the cars not covered as the issues were there when the car was purchased. Wtf [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]


I take it you told them this which gave them an immediate get out of jal free card, BIG mistake


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

jamman said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > Decided to call AA warranty cover and see what hey could do about the issues but they said the cars not covered as the issues were there when the car was purchased. Wtf [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]
> ...


Told who what?.


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Von Twinzig said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > Decided to call AA warranty cover and see what hey could do about the issues but they said the cars not covered as the issues were there when the car was purchased. Wtf [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]
> ...


I'm seriously hoping it does.


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

Sandy said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > Sandy said:
> ...


The AA that you believe the problems were there from the get go.

VT


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

I told the AA the truth that when i was driving home the problems started as I don't lie as that is illegal abd doesn't get people anywhere or it did for those thieves who ripped me off lol


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Sandy this is not meant as an insult but that was very naive

How do you "know" the problems were there straight away the car was fine when you test drive it surely ?


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## SBL (May 9, 2014)

Sandy, I haven't followed everything you've wrote but I have seen some things and looking back, you posted about getting the car on Jan 10th. In the same thread Jan 21st there was still no mention of this DSG issue.
Jan 27th appears to be when you start this thread with the issues. OK it may not be long and not the experience you would want but that's 2 weeks without comment of the issue and certainly suggests that the issue wasn't there when you got the car.
If I've missed points between these dates that show the issue then I apologise but going on what I've read, the dealer is not in the wrong with this DSG issue. 
As you've now told the AA that it existed on purchase, it'll be a difficult/impossible argument to get them to sort it.


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## Stochman (Aug 16, 2013)

SBL said:


> Sandy, I haven't followed everything you've wrote but I have seen some things and looking back, you posted about getting the car on Jan 10th. In the same thread Jan 21st there was still no mention of this DSG issue.
> Jan 27th appears to be when you start this thread with the issues. OK it may not be long and not the experience you would want but that's 2 weeks without comment of the issue and certainly suggests that the issue wasn't there when you got the car.
> If I've missed points between these dates that show the issue then I apologise but going on what I've read, the dealer is not in the wrong with this DSG issue.
> As you've now told the AA that it existed on purchase, it'll be a difficult/impossible argument to get them to sort it.


I think somewhere he says that he had the car parked up for two weeks or so after initially buying it. Getting a court to believe that may prove difficult however as surely when you have just purchased a new car all you want to do, especially during that two week honeymoon period, is drive it.


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## SBL (May 9, 2014)

I'm only going on what I read in the following thread viewtopic.php?f=9&t=876930
Fast and smooth???


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

jamman said:


> Sandy this is not meant as an insult but that was very naive
> 
> How do you "know" the problems were there straight away the car was fine when you test drive it surely ?


Hello sorry for the late reply, went to see the wife and my new born at hospital.

Yes the car drove fine at the time of viewing and test drive but someone from the company has been putting miles on it as the car was not there at the time of collection and I waited three hours before the guy came back with the car.
When i got in and drove the car off it was late and dark and I just wanted to get home as I was tired and a little stressed out waiting for so long. The journey home was a little jerky but I thought this was normal not realising something was wrong. I honestly didn't drive the car after I got it back to work on the Monday as I was still insured on my tt so drove that to work and back. 
I left it at the back of my work place after asking the manager if i could. Two weeks later i wanted to take the misses to visit family so I insured the car for this purpose and within that drive and the drive home it started playing up and I got it back to work and left it there and then contacted the trader to express the issues hence I didn't mention the problem at the time SBL



Stochman said:


> SBL said:
> 
> 
> > Sandy, I haven't followed everything you've wrote but I have seen some things and looking back, you posted about getting the car on Jan 10th. In the same thread Jan 21st there was still no mention of this DSG issue.
> ...


 As above mate.



SBL said:


> I'm only going on what I read in the following thread viewtopic.php?f=9&t=876930
> Fast and smooth???


 Yes I did say is was fast but not smooth?.


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

I think i have fair chance of winning this case in the claims court as below.
Trading Standards Service

Our Advice Sheets

Misleading and Aggressive Practices - Your Right to Redress

If you enter a contract because a trader misled you or because the trader used an aggressive commercial practice, the Consumer Protection (Amendment) Regulations 2014 give you rights to redress - the right to unwind the contract, the right to a discount and the right to damages.


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## SBL (May 9, 2014)

Last post, page 1 of the link I posted you said it was smooth.
No matter, just pointing out opposing info you posted prior to this thread.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

SBL said:


> Last post, page 1 of the link I posted you said it was smooth.
> No matter, just pointing out opposing info you posted prior to this thread.


Lol what I meant by that was not bumpy as the tt is lowered sorry my bad  should have made that clear at the time of posting.


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## Ian_W (Oct 19, 2008)

I still can't help feeling like you really haven't helped yourself much at all on this :?

It's unlucky that the car sat there for a while before you really used it, this obviously put you in an awkward arguing position as I would say it is pretty unusual for someone to pay what you paid for this car to then leave it sat without using it.

IMHO it would of been so much easier to speak to the garage when you first noticed the problems, just set a time to go down there and get them to experience the issues themselves.

I know you said you where busy but at some point you are going to have to take sometime out of your life to sort this out - highly unlikely this will end with the car being collected and you being electronically refunded (IMO again).

The longer it goes on the harder it is going to get.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Ian_W said:


> The longer it goes on the harder it is going to get.


I think this is going to be the biggest issue here. The OP has done so little to assist in resolving the issue that there's a very real danger that it will look like they're obstructing the dealer in their attempts to investigate.

Sandy, I feel like you've convinced yourself that the dealer is so clearly in the wrong that a judge is sure to side with you. I think you need to understand that this is a grey area of the law (through necessity, because it deals with a 2nd hand product) and a good result isn't guaranteed. Because of this, you should be doing everything you can to appear helpful and reasonable, so that the judge is more inclined to see you as the victim, rather than a stroppy buyer with unreasonable expectations, who's simply changed their mind about their purchase.


----------



## Stochman (Aug 16, 2013)

Spandex said:


> Ian_W said:
> 
> 
> > The longer it goes on the harder it is going to get.
> ...


If only there was a 'like' button


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Spandex said:


> Ian_W said:
> 
> 
> > The longer it goes on the harder it is going to get.
> ...


 Tbh I'm really hoping it goes my way or I'm in trouble


----------



## SBL (May 9, 2014)

(Once again, if I missed it then ignore this post)
Has the car been officially checked by anyone neutral as yet, do you have a report? If not then what are you taking the dealer to court for? Do you expect a judge to find in your favour based on your thoughts on the subject?
To me the split boots could happen anytime and the condition of the paintwork is not really a debate. I understand that to you it is but be realistic to yourself and try to see how a neutral would see it, the judge is a neutral.
The only real issue here is the DSG.
You test drove the car, you bought it and 2 weeks later you were still not posting any issue.
Once the issue appeared you seemed to decide that it was there from the beginning but there is no proof in that nor will there ever be.
The dealer asked to check the car, you haven't made it available for them.
They gave you a way to have it repaired (AA warranty) and you have effectively wiped out that opportunity by telling them the issue was there when you got it.
Now if I was the dealer, I'd also be wondering just what the hell you want.
Keep in mind you didn't say anything about an issue in the test drive or for a few weeks so surely to the dealer, the fault has developed since being sold.

Me, as a neutral reading this, you look like a buyer with the worst case of buyer regret ever. Unfortunately I don't think buyer regret would be covered under SOGA and it's not a reason for a dealer to give you a refund


----------



## HarveyTT (Sep 16, 2013)

One saving grace would be or should be how little mileage you've added to the car showing you've not driven it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

SBL said:


> (Once again, if I missed it then ignore this post)
> Has the car been officially checked by anyone neutral as yet, do you have a report? If not then what are you taking the dealer to court for? Do you expect a judge to find in your favour based on your thoughts on the subject?
> To me the split boots could happen anytime and the condition of the paintwork is not really a debate. I understand that to you it is but be realistic to yourself and try to see how a neutral would see it, the judge is a neutral.
> The only real issue here is the DSG.
> ...


 Hi, I totally understand what you are saying and agree that I cannot take someone to court or make a claim for here say and not having a report to state what's wrong with the car and why I am refusing the car under the SOGA but I have a report stating the clutch packs are faulty causing the vehicle gear change to be rough and both cv joints are rumbling along with cv gaiters perished and weeping grease.

Also contacted the bank and they are helping with the case


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Sandy said:


> Spandex said:
> 
> 
> > Ian_W said:
> ...


I forgot to ask as to how I'm obstructing the dealer as ive said they could either come and have a look at the vehicle here at my place or take it away but the dealer are being uncooperative and not replying to any correspondence I've sent neither are their solicitor so I think they are the ones who are taking the piss and stalling me as long as they can. I've been polite to the solicitor who said he will ask the dealer to collect the car as it's not drivable but that was almost 3 weeks back so now I have to deal with this in the best possible way and if that's talking to my bank or taking them to court then this is the only way as I'm not taking anymore time out or paying out of my pocket to have the car transported to the trader when it's they who have took the piss and lied to me.


----------



## Stochman (Aug 16, 2013)

I keep reading this thread but it's starting to feel like Groundhog Day.


----------



## ralfy (Oct 6, 2011)

Sandy said:


> When i got in and drove the car off it was late and dark and I just wanted to get home as I was tired and a little stressed out waiting for so long. The journey home was a little jerky but I thought this was normal not realising something was wrong. I honestly didn't drive the car after I got it back to work on the Monday as I was still insured on my tt so drove that to work and back.
> I left it at the back of my work place after asking the manager if i could. Two weeks later i wanted to take the misses to visit family so I insured the car for this purpose and within that drive and the drive home it started playing up and I got it back to work and left it there and then contacted the trader to express the issues hence I didn't mention the problem at the time SBL


Quotes from this thread: http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=876930

Jan 10th
Bought car?
"blasting it back to London"

Jan 11th
"It's nice and smooth to drive"

Jan 16th
"Wow this car feels fast ragging it down the M1 but still need more horses"

Jan 27th
This thread started.

Seems to be some discrepancies here and there?


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Sandy said:


> I forgot to ask as to how I'm obstructing the dealer as ive said they could either come and have a look at the vehicle here at my place or take it away but the dealer are being uncooperative and not replying to any correspondence I've sent neither are their solicitor so I think they are the ones who are taking the piss and stalling me as long as they can. I've been polite to the solicitor who said he will ask the dealer to collect the car as it's not drivable but that was almost 3 weeks back so now I have to deal with this in the best possible way and if that's talking to my bank or taking them to court then this is the only way as I'm not taking anymore time out or paying out of my pocket to have the car transported to the trader when it's they who have took the piss and lied to me.


Well, the main reason I think it could look like you're being obstructive is the fact that you're refusing to take the car back yourself. Now I know you've been advised that you don't *have to*, but I can't think of a single other product (other than mail order, where the law differs) where that would be the case, so I'm not convinced Trading Standards are correct.

Let's be honest here though. You *are* being deliberately obstructive, because you don't want the car - by that I mean that you *could* do more to help but have chosen not to. You don't really want them to diagnose it and you don't want them to repair it so you've decided to do what you believe is the legal bare minimum in the hope that you'll win a court case to get a full refund. The way I see it, there are two risks with this approach. Firstly, the advice regarding you not having to return the car might be wrong (Trading Standards arent infallible and I suspect you've not actually spoken to one of their lawyers). Secondly, the judge might simply take the view that doing the bare minimum isn't sufficient.


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

ralfy said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > When i got in and drove the car off it was late and dark and I just wanted to get home as I was tired and a little stressed out waiting for so long. The journey home was a little jerky but I thought this was normal not realising something was wrong. I honestly didn't drive the car after I got it back to work on the Monday as I was still insured on my tt so drove that to work and back.
> ...


 As above and also I was stupid to believe that the car didn't have any scratches on it as I was promised a full valet and polish/mop so was naive to think he car was is excellent condition referring to the bodywork.



Spandex said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > I forgot to ask as to how I'm obstructing the dealer as ive said they could either come and have a look at the vehicle here at my place or take it away but the dealer are being uncooperative and not replying to any correspondence I've sent neither are their solicitor so I think they are the ones who are taking the piss and stalling me as long as they can. I've been polite to the solicitor who said he will ask the dealer to collect the car as it's not drivable but that was almost 3 weeks back so now I have to deal with this in the best possible way and if that's talking to my bank or taking them to court then this is the only way as I'm not taking anymore time out or paying out of my pocket to have the car transported to the trader when it's they who have took the piss and lied to me.
> ...


 Hi Spandex, I've also read somewhere on the Internet that the trader has to prove there weren't any issues prior to selling the car on.
I do like the Golf gti's as ive test driven another one and they handle great but this one I'm not happy with as the faults were not mentioned and promises were made and lies were told.

Lawyers aren't cooperating replying to the letters sent recorded delivery so obviously they are stalling me.

I had plans for this car and saved links for mods I was ready to buy so it's not a case of buyers remorse or me not wanting a golf gti as theres lots that can be done to them but more the fact I've been conned out of 7k with a defective car and lots of bullshit when I asked about the gears/box cv joints from day one.


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Sandy said:


> Hi Spandex, I've also read somewhere on the Internet that the trader has to prove there weren't any issues prior to selling the car on.
> I do like the Golf gti's as ive test driven another one and they handle great but this one I'm not happy with as the faults were not mentioned and promises were made and lies were told.
> 
> Lawyers aren't cooperating replying to the letters sent recorded delivery so obviously they are stalling me.
> ...


Generally, yes, for faults found this early in your ownership the assumption will be that they were present when you bought the car and the onus is on the dealer to prove that they weren't, rather than you having to prove that they were. This isn't really what I'm getting at though - I don't doubt that the car has faults, and I also believe it's highly likely it had them when you bought it. I'm also fairly certain a judge would treat these problems as existing faults which the dealer is responsible for. What this will come down to though, is whether a judge believes your claim that the dealer has not done enough to resolve the issue.

You say they're stalling, but it sounds more like a deadlock to me - you won't take the car to them and they won't pick the car up, so I'm not sure what additional correspondence you expect on the matter. But, you shouldn't just assume that Trading Standards know everything and their solicitor knows nothing. Their solicitor is advising them in the background, and if they're not communicating with you any more it could be that he feels they've done enough from a legal viewpoint.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Spandex said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Spandex, I've also read somewhere on the Internet that the trader has to prove there weren't any issues prior to selling the car on.
> ...


 Thanks again for your response. I've done what I was supposed to do and take the car once and they brushed me off with bullshit thay there's nothing wrong with it so there's no point in wasting time going down again as this is their way of taking the piss and making me run around for nothing. I swear the words that want to come out of my mouth right now are unreal dirty bleeps :x


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Sandy said:


> I forgot to ask as to how I'm obstructing the dealer as ive said they could either come and have a look at the vehicle here at my place or take it away but the dealer are being uncooperative and not replying to any correspondence I've sent


Whenever I wanted to return an item I had bought (or get it repaired) the onus has always been on me to take the item back to the seller. That goes back through all the time I've ever bought anything and that's for more than 45 years now.
Perhaps your case is very unique but I can't see it is :?


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

A3DFU said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > I forgot to ask as to how I'm obstructing the dealer as ive said they could either come and have a look at the vehicle here at my place or take it away but the dealer are being uncooperative and not replying to any correspondence I've sent
> ...


No idea but I've now also booked into vw for a professional opinion and to report everything as I'm taking no chances and want this saga to end.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Sandy I thought you ready had an independent report ?

On a more positive note boy or girl ?


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## bigdodge (Apr 22, 2012)

An independent report might show up any faults but still will not prove the faults were there to start with, I think.


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## firediamonduk (Dec 24, 2013)

bigdodge said:


> An independent report might show up any faults but still will not prove the faults were there to start with, I think.


That depends. I don't know about with a VW but I know on Jags it tells you when the code was stored so this would prove if before or after you purchased it. You would probably have to request they give you a copy of the codes and ask them for the specific information as as a Jag dealer of requested we give it away but would not unless asked...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SBL (May 9, 2014)

I thought it was already said that the DSG was showing no codes?


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## triplefan (Sep 3, 2008)

I can't remember exactly but wasn't it scanned and there were no fault codes, hence the clutch was mentioned?


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

firediamonduk said:


> bigdodge said:
> 
> 
> > An independent report might show up any faults but still will not prove the faults were there to start with, I think.
> ...


Yes audi also state that if a fault had been logged, it will record in the ecu and stay there.
I'll ask vw for a full report and any codes that are or were stored previous.

Whether or not they were from the start or after still means there's a fault and if a car goes faulty within 6 months of purchase then there are 


jamman said:


> Sandy I thought you ready had an independent report ?
> 
> On a more positive note boy or girl ?


I've been told it may not hold value so getting main dealer to do the report.

Oh a boy thanks for asking


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Congrats


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

jamman said:


> Congrats


 Thank you

They are still in hospital since sunday so I've been going twice a day sometimes three times.


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## oz_p (Feb 7, 2011)

Sandy said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> > Sandy said:
> ...


Be wary of taking it to somewhere else for anything other than diagnostics, my friend got stung big time with a faulty car, took it to small claims court and lost on a technicality due to havign the car looked at by someone otehr than the dealer she bought it from, Judge was very sympathetic but law unfortunately was in the delaer's favour!

She ended up with an MG with the engine & gearbox in bits strewn around the interior of the car, ruined leather seats and a ripped hood!


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## Ian_W (Oct 19, 2008)

Sandy said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> > Sandy said:
> ...


Apologies if I have missed it but how are you getting it to VW? Does the car still run and drive or are you paying to get it transported?


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

I'm not going to lie and say it doesn't drive as it does as I went in to work and gave it half an hours idle yesturday and then a run around and found the problem starts when the car is at 54 degrees from the diag on snap on.


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## Ian_W (Oct 19, 2008)

Sandy said:


> I'm not going to lie and say it doesn't drive as it does as I went in to work and gave it half an hours idle yesturday and then a run around and found the problem starts when the car is at 54 degrees from the diag on snap on.


In that case I would speak to the seller and arrange to go back there with it, get someone to follow you and leave the car there until all the issues are sorted.

This could work in your favour as you say it goes funny when hot, when you get there get them to go for a drive with you and you can demonstrate the problem straight away.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Hello oz_p, I'm taking the car into vw just for a diag and nothing more so I have dealership proof there's a fault regardless of when it occurred but from what I've been reading up on the dsg it's usually when the cars up to temp which is what I've noticed anyway.

I'm sure someone will come along and quiz me on this.

I've just realised why I didn't pick up the fault on the test drive what a dumb bleep. The car didn't even get to reach temp as the sales man only got me to go up the road a mile or so and back


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## Ian_W (Oct 19, 2008)

Sandy said:


> Hello oz_p, I'm taking the car into vw just for a diag and nothing more so I have dealership proof there's a fault regardless of when it occurred but from what I've been reading up on the dsg it's usually when the cars up to temp which is what I've noticed anyway.
> 
> I'm sure someone will come along and quiz me on this.
> 
> I've just realised why I didn't pick up the fault on the test drive what a dumb bleep. The car didn't even get to reach temp as the sales man only got me to go up the road a mile or so and back


Seems a bit strange mate, you are paying (I assume) for a diagnostic and for what? If the fault is there the fault is there and original seller will see it once they test drive the car up to temp.

I would only take it to VW if you are happy to arrange for the seller to pay for VW to repair but I thought you wanted rid of the car?


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Ian_W said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > Hello oz_p, I'm taking the car into vw just for a diag and nothing more so I have dealership proof there's a fault regardless of when it occurred but from what I've been reading up on the dsg it's usually when the cars up to temp which is what I've noticed anyway.
> ...


Basically the prick doesn't want to play ball and wasted my time and also wants a diag print off of a fault before they do anything in the first instance so this is what I must do.

I hate the car because of all the scratches and the lies that bastard told me so I'm going to see why happens and will add the diag costs to any claim I make or a full refund.

Tbh I don't think the trader is going to pay for any repairs especially if the costs of the repair ar in the £1000 + range. If its the mechatronic unit then god knows what's going to happen.

Oh yes thr seller first told me over the phone that the dsg boxes jerk like this and when I told him I'd driven another one recently and it was smoother than smooth he then says take it up with the warranty compant so that contradicts what he said first SO THAT tells me that he knew about this fault from outset and lied about anything being wrong with the box OR cv joints and boots.

EDITED: I also thought the rumbling noise was the tyres as some cars do tend to make a wheel bearing noise but as mentioned upon closer inspection I found the cv gaiters perished and the joints are rumbling.


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## Ian_W (Oct 19, 2008)

Ahh fair enough.

At least you will have it in writing that there is a fault present.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Ian_W said:


> Ahh fair enough.
> 
> At least you will have it in writing that there is a fault present.


This seller and his cllollegues are all sly f***** with the way they spoke to me after the sale when i was waiting and waiting and waiting for the AA warranty cirt and MOT paper inc receipts for work that was meant ro be carried out which he never did send me and calling my question stupid when I asked about the docs.

After I mentioned trading standards he sent the docs but took two later.

Remembering he said all the papers will be sent recorded delivery the next day and ignoring my calls and messages left for him says he didn't give a toot about the customer after the sale had been made and full payment done.


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## SBL (May 9, 2014)

Do us a favour please Sandy, no matter what the outcome, do let us know the truth about the decision please.
Even if it be 50/50 or goes against, give us the explanation.

I don't think anyone on here is against you in this matter, we just get to see it from our neutral position and so make our mind up based on a neutral, none involved perspective.

Best of luck.

(congrats on the nipper by the way, they tend to put a lot of things into perspective in life)


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## Stochman (Aug 16, 2013)

Sandy said:


> Ian_W said:
> 
> 
> > Ahh fair enough.
> ...


Not really sure what all of the above means, however what I would say is that if I'd turned up take my car away and the garage kept me waiting for three hours then they'd have been selling the car to someone else as I'd have simply walked away.

Have you ever considered that during that three hours that you were kept waiting that they may have switched gearboxes?Maybe one of their guys owns the same type of Golf and maybe he had a naff gearbox. We may as well add all of the conspiracy theories that we can think of.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Stochman said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > Ian_W said:
> ...


He probably took engine and gearbox out to make it easier to swop


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

SBL said:


> Do us a favour please Sandy, no matter what the outcome, do let us know the truth about the decision please.
> Even if it be 50/50 or goes against, give us the explanation.
> 
> I don't think anyone on here is against you in this matter, we just get to see it from our neutral position and so make our mind up based on a neutral, none involved perspective.
> ...


Hi SBL, I can understand everyone's concerns as to why when how what etc but the truth is that I've been conned and I will definitely post the final outcome either way as I'd want to rant it out somewhere and hope nobody judges me based on this. 
Thank you all

And also thank you kindly for the congrats  he's a handsome fella unlike his poor pops lol


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## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

A case for Judge Rinder?


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Replaced dsg oil and filter today but still a little jerky so took it to a guy locally who service's lamborghini ferrari Bentley and other high end motora and he plugged his computer in but found no faults as with the vw dealer who couldn't even diagnose a couple of issues with the dog bone bushes that have play in them as there are two upper and lower pressed into the sub frame and also the drive shafts being rough and said this could be the cause of the jerky drive. 
He did however reprogrammed the dsg to adapt from fresh.

VW say there are no fault codes present and the mechatronic unit doesn't always show a fault code so I'm not sure what to do now.


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## triplefan (Sep 3, 2008)

Can you describe when it is jerky, is it from pulling away or when it changes up gears. Are there times when it doesn't jerk, or does it do it all the time. If it's only sometimes how are you driving it to cause the jerk?


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Sandy said:


> Replaced dsg oil and filter today but still a little jerky so took it to a guy locally who service's lamborghini ferrari Bentley and other high end motora and he plugged his computer in but found no faults as with the vw dealer who couldn't even diagnose a couple of issues with the dog bone bushes that have play in them as there are two upper and lower pressed into the sub frame and also the drive shafts being rough and said this could be the cause of the jerky drive.
> He did however reprogrammed the dsg to adapt from fresh.
> 
> VW say there are no fault codes present and the mechatronic unit doesn't always show a fault code so I'm not sure what to do now.


As per my PM advice if you think that there's a fault take the tech out for a drive and show him and ask him his thoughts.

Looking at what you have said though a main VW dealer has inspected it and found no problem which is a MASSIVE problem for you claim wise.

I see little point in taking it to yet another tech.

Why don't you sell it ?


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

jamman said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > Replaced dsg oil and filter today but still a little jerky so took it to a guy locally who service's lamborghini ferrari Bentley and other high end motora and he plugged his computer in but found no faults as with the vw dealer who couldn't even diagnose a couple of issues with the dog bone bushes that have play in them as there are two upper and lower pressed into the sub frame and also the drive shafts being rough and said this could be the cause of the jerky drive.
> ...


 Yes you did. I just wanted another opinion on he rumbling under the foot as the technical at vw didn't feel it and the technician I took it to asked me if I felt the rumble on test drive straight away and that's without me telling him it was there. 
Right lock slight rumble left lock a lot of rumble.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

triplefan said:


> Can you describe when it is jerky, is it from pulling away or when it changes up gears. Are there times when it doesn't jerk, or does it do it all the time. If it's only sometimes how are you driving it to cause the jerk?


 It's from slow take off mainly. The tech still doesn't feel what I feel when moving off but I guess they can't be bothered as I told them specifically to check the joints too but they didn't :x


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## triplefan (Sep 3, 2008)

So the jerk is as you pull awayfrom stationary...releasing the brake and pressing the accelerator?


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

That is correct.

Also here a weird rattling from engine bay that sounds like it's coming from the box itself when I put it in drive with foot on the brake pedal and lasts 10-15 seconds.

Just been out in the car down to the petrol station and it also jerks when foot on the brake and placing into drive.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Update on diagnostic.

I had the vehicle in at vw dealers and they didn't do a full diagnostics as the car is showing a few faults and the service desk at vw said there were NO fault codes present none. :?

Took the car to a local garage as mentioned and he showed me a few fault codes from his genuine vw diagnostic machine.

Dealers aren't very honest


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## SBL (May 9, 2014)

And what do those fault codes relate to?


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Sandy said:


> Update on diagnostic.
> 
> I had the vehicle in at vw dealers and they didn't do a full diagnostics as the car is showing a few faults and the service desk at vw said there were NO fault codes present none. :?
> 
> ...


Dont know why VW wouldn't let you know about the faults Sandy as it's potentially new work for them plus a fault scan only takes a few minutes

Where are you located maybe someone can pop over and scan the car for you.

Do you have a court date yet ?


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## SBL (May 9, 2014)

Any movement on this yet Sandy?


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

So......happy ending or not? Just interested.

VT


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## triplefan (Sep 3, 2008)

We may never know but the suspense is killing me


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I PMed but didn't get a reply :roll:


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## Shytalk (May 8, 2015)

Blimey thats some epic and still no outcome.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Sad ending as I scrapped the court thing all together and just kept the f******in car as ive had bigger issues not to do with the car and never got the time to d anything further as work are and we're being bas****s with me as I wanted time off and they didn't give me any.

Sorry and thanks for all the help jamman, guys.

BTW, had the oil and dsg filter replaced and feels a lot smoother than before but not as quick a response like other dsg's I've driven. Maybe it's just this car?.


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

Hey ho. Oh well, life goes on. A few lessons learned I guess. :?

VT


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Yes don't believe anything when buying a car and take your whole family :lol: so we can check it over properly and not be forced into buying a car with lies lies and more lies and then hiding the car for 3 hours until dark and then bring it back to the showroom and wash it so not to see all the scratches whilst it's wet.

Silly me


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Hope things take a positive turn soon Sandy


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Thank you kindly James.


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