# Potential fire avoided - Update warning to all please read



## UK225 (May 12, 2002)

Hi Chaps,

Feeling more than a little gutted 

Was already to drive up to the Thistle ready for the EvenTT07 tommorow, just popped around to the folks place to pick up a few bits & pieces & then planned on driving straight there.

I have been away the last week but before I left my TT was running fine & no sign of any issues looming...

Anyway pulled out of the parents drive & set of up the road, thought its a little warm in here & noticed that the econ was on, so turned it off expecting a nice cooling breeze through the vents, however all I got was warm air... quick scan of hvac ( I have a permanent diagnostic hook up through a PDA) showed

00792 A/C pressure switch open or short to ground - intermittent

01582 Signal for coolant temp sensor open or short to positive - intermittent.

Hmm..

A quick look at my coolant temp showed a slightly higher than normal temperature but only a few degrees, causing me to suspect the slow fan speed when ac is on was not running, so drove steadily the couple of miles home to investigate.

Within a minute or so of sitting at idle on the drive the coolant temp had climbed to over 100, with no sign of the fans kicking in.

Popped the hood & immediately could smell burning from around the battery area, removed the cover & opened lid on fuse carrier to see the fan controller fuse looking more than a little toasty & little wisps of smoke :evil:

I suspect a bad contact in the carrier is too blame as whats left dont look great, it must have got so hot & perhaps there may have been a little flame it had also started to burn through the insulation on the cables next to it which feed my amp & intercooler misting pump 

Tried to pull the fuse out to inspect it more closely but it disintergrated & burnt my fingers.. didnt take a picture of how it looked before i tried to get the fuse out but I think I am lucky I caught it in time or maybe I would have had an even unhappier ending...

They say a picture paints a thousand words..




























Unfortunatley I only have the one vehicle so instead of being at the best TT event there is, tommorow I will be starting to repair my car instead.

Have a great time all & sorry I wont be there to catch up with you.

This may be an isolated/unlucky occurence but I would recommend checking that the contacts in the carriers look ok on your own TTs.

Cheers
Morgan

Update
Chaps I would urge you to inspect your own fuse carrier/fuses this appears to not be an isolated incident.

Ed from APS mentioned to Wak that they have seen this before on Seats.

A little searching on Seat Cupra net brings back some worrying results like this poll where out of the voters 73 have had fan fuse /fuse carrier meltdown

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthr ... =fuse+fire

There has been a fire where the fuse panel was suspected as cause..










There are a few trains of thought on the cause, the fans pulling to much current, under specced components, poor/corroded contacts etc

There must an issue with the design/components used for this to be happening in the first place but it sounds like the people who contacted Seat UK didnt get very far in as much of them accepting a design flaw/issue.

A new fuse carrier will be fitted hopefully tommorow if I can source one & I will check the current draw/fan behaviour to ensure its correct, I feel a new mod coming on as I dont want to risk this happening again with potentially a very unhappy ending.

The part number quoted by a few of the guys on there who have experienced this is the same P/N for my 2001 TT :evil:

I am now wondering if the few cases where TTs have mysteriously gone up in smoke was caused by this very "issue".

Not good ..


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## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

Chrikey Morgan - that's awful mate :?

This will be the second year running you haven't made it won't it?


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## was (Mar 24, 2003)

gutted for you mate :evil: looks like it could have been a lot worse :evil:

is it worth trying a temp fix , new inline fuse etc :?: that way you could get to Donny

was


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## TT4PJ (May 5, 2004)

Hi Morgan,
Could have been the whole car not just a fuse.
There will be next year.


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## UK225 (May 12, 2002)

Thanks guys & no I wasnt able to make it last year either 

Thought about that was, but want to investigate it further rather than doing a quick fix without being 100% certain there is not any other issues before a long drive although I doubt there is.

Will dremel the carrier apart tommorow & inspect it.


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

sorry to hear your troubles morgan  why is it your car always plays up before a big event  mine does it everytime the day before inters :? hope you get it sorted!


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

its only a scratch, get your ar$e up here you big girls blouse! :roll:


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

UK225 said:


> Thanks guys & no I wasnt able to make it last year either
> 
> .


at least your car made it! :wink:


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## ttroy225 (May 18, 2002)

Wak said:


> its only a scratch, get your ar$e up here you big girls blouse! :roll:


 :lol: .. Feeling for you Morgan..


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

ttroy225 said:


> :lol: .. Feeling for you Morgan..


Typical! its the one bit of the car he hasnt dicked with! Tell you what, I'm going to be checking my fuse carrier asap!


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## UK225 (May 12, 2002)

Thanks for all the kind words guys 

It will be fixed soon enough ... just bad timing for it to happen


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## ttroy225 (May 18, 2002)

Wak said:


> ttroy225 said:
> 
> 
> > :lol: .. Feeling for you Morgan..
> ...


 Me too.. :?


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## UK225 (May 12, 2002)

Updates in first post, please read.


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## JayGemson (Jun 8, 2004)

Woah 

I'll be checking mine first thing tomorrow morning. Cheers for that Morgan and well done for catching it so soon.


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## Black Knight (Jan 16, 2007)

Do I have that fusebox on the V6? Where is it located? My A/C has been playing up and this is really worrying :/


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## Steve_t (Jan 9, 2006)

Blimey! 

Thank goodness you realised something was wrong and spotted it in time. The consequences don't bear thinking about.

Needless to say I'll be checking mine today!!

Hope you get it sorted soon...


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## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

Morgan.

Could you post a photo of the location from further away so that I and others who don't have much of a clue ( :roll: ) can see where to look as I can't tell from your (excellent) close up shots.

Thanks


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Wak told me you'd nearly had a fire from a dodgey fuse. Sorry you couldn't make it 

A high resistance contact for sure. Probably due to corrosion/oxidation/weak contact spring tension.

Might be a good idea to pull the fuses in and out a few times to clean up the contacts and feel how tight the contact spring tension is. Some switch cleaning lubricant wouldn't go amiss for anyone worrying about it too.


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## Black Knight (Jan 16, 2007)

So, where is this fusebox?

On ibizas it's on top of the battery.. my battery is in the boot... and there are no fuses on top of it.. and there are no fuses in front where the battery is on 1.8T TTs..


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)




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## Black Knight (Jan 16, 2007)

heh, where is that? it looks like something was mounted on the top of it?


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## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

John-H said:


>


Thanks John - is that in the flap over the top of the battery then?

(Good to finally meet you yesterday BTW  )


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## Black Knight (Jan 16, 2007)

It looks like that, but there's nothing underneath my battery cover.. not even a battery :/


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

NaughTTy said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


Is the V6 different? I haven't got the manual with me at the moment but yes it is under the battery cover on the 180 and 225 etc.

Nice to meet you too  ! Always good to put a face to a name!

I didn't seem to get as much time this year to socialise - now I've got home I've realised there were lots of people there I would have liked to meet and chat to for longer.


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## Black Knight (Jan 16, 2007)

Yeah, the V6 has the battery relocated in the trunk.. And in the trunk there's only just the battery with very thick very isolated leads going to front.. nothing else..no fusebox

Underneath the front "battery" cover there's just air.. no fusebox.... so, where did they hide it?


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## UK225 (May 12, 2002)

ETKA shows a different P/N for the V6 main fuse panel but it exists.

I am off to pick up my new carrier now but can check my repair manual for you later on.

It should give this information in your owners handbook if you have that to hand.


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## Black Knight (Jan 16, 2007)

Ooh, that means mine could be a functional one that doesn't cause fires? 

Still I'd like to check it out as my A/C is playing up.. gonna try and find my handbook 

Thanks!


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## Black Knight (Jan 16, 2007)

can't find it in the manual.. under "sicherung" there's only the side fuse panel..


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## renton72 (Feb 17, 2004)

Thanks for the heads up Morgan, its a good job it didnt cause you any more problems / damage.

I have just checked my fuses, all look ok. What are the 3 fuses for?, will i be resetting anything if i remove them?

Thanks

Chris


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## UK225 (May 12, 2002)

Hi Chris,

Counting from the left to right the three fuses cover coolant fan, abs valves, abs pump.

You wont reset anything by removing them to inspect which is the only way you will see if there is any burning/corrosion etc

This issue seems to be mainly with the coolant fan fuse although I have now found someone who had an issue with the ABS pump fuse.

Do it with the ignition off & with the engine cool.

Cheers
Morgan


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## UK225 (May 12, 2002)

Black Knight said:


> can't find it in the manual.. under "sicherung" there's only the side fuse panel..


Ok checked my handbook & you are right the main fuse panel is not covered in it.

Are you absolutely sure there is nothing under the cover where the battery is on the 1.8T ?


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## renton72 (Feb 17, 2004)

UK225 said:


> Hi Chris,
> 
> Counting from the left to right the three fuses cover coolant fan, abs valves, abs pump.
> 
> ...


Will do.

Thanks for the info.

Cheers

Chris


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## UK225 (May 12, 2002)

Right guys a bit more info.

There are a few variations of the fuse carrier one type is for the V6 & QS, the other two types appear to cover all other variants.

1.8T (not QS)

Part number 01J 937 617 C is for approx 99-02 models

Part number 8N0 937 617 is for approx 02 onwards

But.. if you ever need to order one, supply your VIN or reg to the dealer....

The carrier itself at least mine does not show the P/N, & being a 2001 build I assumed I would need 01J 937 617 C which is the same P/N I saw quoted on the Seat forum, & the dealer had stock.

However mine actually needs 8NO 937 617 & the parts desk did not have stock although they are getting me one in for tommorow...

So firstly it does not seem to be only the 01J 937 617 C part that could be an issue, but also the 8NO 937 617 which I have.

The 8N0 937 617 part is physically different in its overall design to the 01J but not it appears in the carriers themselves at least not to my eyes when I compared them, just the connector is at a different orientation to the 01J & it does not have a long busbar for the battery V+ connection.

Part itself is cheap enough Â£40.91 inc

Anyway since I couldnt chop up the old one to inspect till I have the new one, I did a little test.

Using the brand new 01J carrier the dealer did have, I got a brand new OEM fuse with unmarked blades & inserted it into the carrier, it seemed a nice snug fit.

I then removed the fuse & inspected the blades as you can see from the following picture the actual contact area between the fuse & the carrier is tiny & not ideal in my opinion.

You can just about see the little mark on each leg of the fuse that made contact in the carrier !










I will post picks of the old carrier innards when I have opened it up.

Cheers
Morgan

P.S
I have found Deoxit to be pretty good at improving connections in the past so will be putting a little of this on each leg of the fuse until I can come up with a tidy modification in the future that completly bypasses the OEM carriers.


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## TTej (Sep 10, 2003)

Morgan great info and ill be check in mine in the morning. Although its a real shame that this has happened, i cant think of anyone else better it could have happened too. I know i wouldnt have been able to pin point it as quickly as you did.

HAs anyone informed Audi of this thread, i know they look on this forum. anyone for watchdog again?


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## UK225 (May 12, 2002)

Thanks Tej 

Dealer said today they have never heard of it happening..Dean from 4 Rings said he has changed a few.

The guys didnt seem to get anywhere with Seat & they had a good few members who experienced it, & I think its unlikely Audi UK would care unless lots of people actually check there carriers & find evidence of poor connections/burning & got Watchdog or similar interested..

I might start a poll.

Those who checked & it looked fine & those who checked & found evidence of poor connection/burning.

Cheers
Morgan


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

UK225 said:


> Thanks Tej
> 
> Dealer said today they have never heard of it happening..Dean from 4 Rings said he has changed a few.
> 
> ...


A poll's a good idea with a picture of where to check. I've not checked mine yet but I will do and let you know.

I checked Bentley and ElsaWin and although I could see a picture of the battery in the boot on the 3.2 all the references to the fuse pannel seemed to show the one on top of the battery on the 225 etc. :?


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## Black Knight (Jan 16, 2007)

Hehe, mysterious V6 fuse panel ))

Will get most plastic covers off tomorrow to get a better looksee..

Any idea if the V6/QS panel is also troublesome? It kinda seems to me they're all the same, only connection or orientations modified? Can't bee that different if they're shared between two totaly different engines?

Btw. should a dead "position light"(sidelight? the weak light that angel eyes replace) display on dash as light bulb faulty error? When my xenon bulbs go I get the light bulb faulty error on the dash(it happens intermittently, goes away when I switch them off and on again).. I noticed my sidelight is gone and there is no dash beeping? Is that normal? Are they considered less worthy bulbs?


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

John-H said:


> I checked Bentley and ElsaWin and although I could see a picture of the battery in the boot on the 3.2 all the references to the fuse pannel seemed to show the one on top of the battery on the 225 etc. :?












Chatting to Morgan earlier, if the battery positive goes from the rear to the front to join on to a fuse and things should be fused at source...

Where is the fuse protection from the battery positive.

I'll have a good look next time I get a chance to see a 3.2 in for diagnostics...

:?


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## Black Knight (Jan 16, 2007)

I feel like an idiot now. The fuse panel is in exactly the same place as on the 1.8Ts. Yesterday I looked under the cover but did not bother to remove it. Today I did and the fuse panel is just under the cover and can't be seen without removing it.

Anyway, the fusepanel and the all of the fuses seem to be in perfect condition...

Still, the right fan(when looking from the front of the car, on the gearbox side) never turns on. The car was warm after an hour drive, I parked it, turned up the A/C to LO and let it idle like that for 10 minutes.. The right fan never turned on. It didn't overheat either though, stuck on 90 degrees. A/C never ceased blowing cold air either. It is a warm day here, but not nearly as warm as a few days ago when it was overheating when idled and A/C kept switching on and off.
The other fan was blowing like mad all the time.

Aren't both fans supposed to blow when A/C is on?

I also managed to notice how my fuel needle jumps up and down between resting position(below scale) and bottom of scale position a couple of times(random number) a few seconds after I take the key out.. amazing stuff.. 
The dashpod seems to know exactly where the bottom of scale is, but it always show about a third too much...estimated range is correct so obviously another faulty dashpod.. and my car is '05 model according to VIN number.. it was first registered mid '04 though.. weird..


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## UK225 (May 12, 2002)

IIRC there are a few different fan controllers & behaviour varies.

On my 1.8T both fans run when the AC is on at slow speed.

Anyways car is all fixed now 

A few things I have noted.

1. I bought some new fuses & noticed they are of a different design to the originals, comparing them to the old ones the fuse element is much smaller on the new design.

The following pic shows two new type fuses in the outer carriers & the old type in the middle.










An old type fuse cut apart for inspection.. I am going to test one of these little buggers to see at what current they actually open at :evil:










The old carrier cut apart for inspection.. note how much less material there is on the fused side carrier contacts compared to the non fused side..










Cheers
Morgan


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Aha! That's why Bentley only shows the one fuse panel - there is only one :lol: 

And in answer to Waks question I'd expect the battery cable from the boot to be double insulated in some way as a safety feature e.g. some heavy duty sheathing or conduit - well that's what I would have done.

I should have thought - the fuse for the alternator and fans etc. is still best in the same position at the front. Where the battery cable emerges is effectively the battery terminal, so all things are equal apart from the long thick cable to the boot. 

I think, without looking it up, that one fan is for the aircon and one for the engine coolant - switched from the thermostatic switch on the radiator, when the coolant temperature exceeds 100 deg C. The aircon is independant and draws air through the heat exchanger.

There is an adaptation you can try for the fuel gauge if you have Vag-Com but I've not managed to get it to work on a faulty dashpod. Works fine on a non faulty one :roll: but might be worth a go.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

I'd like you all to know, I avoided a potential fire today by not setting my curtains alight.

I've found the trick is, don't go near them with matches.


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## Black Knight (Jan 16, 2007)

IIRC fuel gauge adaption only allows like 20%.. mine is off more than that.. I don't really care about that though.. what troubles me is that it is a sign the dashpod will go dead sometime in the near future probably, and here it is not covered by audi croatia :/

how is the coolant supposed to get to 100 degrees? Mine never left the 90 degree mark in 6 months except that one day i mentioned when the AC misbehaved.. I do frequently get warmish air out of the AC on hot days in very heavy traffic..and sometimes notice it switching on and off at these times, causing sudden 100rpm idle dips.. but it never went above 90 degrees?


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## Adam RRS (May 25, 2006)

jampott said:


> I'd like you all to know, I avoided a potential fire today by not setting my curtains alight.
> 
> I've found the trick is, don't go near them with matches.


PMSL


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Adam TTR said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > I'd like you all to know, I avoided a potential fire today by not setting my curtains alight.
> ...


I can post some pictures if it helps, although the Dining Room has blinds, the same goes for those too.


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Thanks for the warning. Mine are now checked and are OK. The spades are very clean. I've also checked the tightness of all the nuts adjacent to the fuses.

Cheers

Joe


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Black Knight said:


> IIRC fuel gauge adaption only allows like 20%.. mine is off more than that.. I don't really care about that though.. what troubles me is that it is a sign the dashpod will go dead sometime in the near future probably, and here it is not covered by audi croatia :/
> 
> how is the coolant supposed to get to 100 degrees? Mine never left the 90 degree mark in 6 months except that one day i mentioned when the AC misbehaved.. I do frequently get warmish air out of the AC on hot days in very heavy traffic..and sometimes notice it switching on and off at these times, causing sudden 100rpm idle dips.. but it never went above 90 degrees?


Depends if you have earlier or later dashpod software.

If you don't have the aircon on and you sit in traffic idling there will be no airflow through the radiator. In those circumstances the coolant temperature will climb and eventually the thermostatic switch will cut in and turn the other fan on to bring the temperature back down. Try it with the engine at 2000rpm and not moving with the aircon off. It should cycle up and down with a maximum of 100 deg C. If the aircon is on there will be airflow which may prevent the coolant temperature from rising enough. If you are moving the thermostat will be able to regulate, so again the temperature will not get to 100 deg C.


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## TThriller (Feb 27, 2006)

Bummer Morgan. Glad you caught it in time.

It happened to me: while I was on the track at Donnington!!

I had entered Maclanes and the car felt a little different. I was about to enter Coppice when simultaneously the brakes faded, the dashboard lit up and the bleeper went off!

I have no idea how I stayed on the black stuff with the speed I was carrying into the corner.

Got back to the pits ok and enlisted the help of Nathan from APS. Cheers Nathan. Anyway, while checking the brakes he noticed that the car was way over temperature. He opened the hood and straight away went for the fuses on top of the battery. When he wiggled the fuses, low and behold, the fans kicked in. That expalins the dashboard lighting up and the bleeper going off. Liuckily the carrier wasnt like yours Morgan.

The brakes had boiled the fluid, due no doubt to my over enthusiastic attempts to find out just how well Brembo GT's can stop the TT at the end of the Dunlop straight. After a top up of fluid all was well again.

So yes, do check your fuses for corrosion and bad contacts.

Dave


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## UK225 (May 12, 2002)

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the information 

I will have to investigate at what temperature the DIS warning is triggered at, I got to 108 degs with no warning or chime.

I would consider using some contact cleaner on the carriers & fuse legs, ideally you dont want the problem to re-occur.

Cheers
Morgan


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## TThriller (Feb 27, 2006)

UK225 said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> Thanks for the information
> 
> ...


Not a bad idea Morgan! Would WD40 be ok for that?

Dave


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

WD40 will dispell water but it's also an insulator which you'd be reliant on contact pressure to break through. Contact cleaner is designed to have low shear strength as well as oxide lifting and cleaning properties. Servisol Switch Cleaner from Maplins is a good one. Also if you can take it apart, bend the contacts together, so they grip the fuse tighter.


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## Black Knight (Jan 16, 2007)

interesting thread i found on golf 4 fans

http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/449470/ShowPost.aspx

to cut the story short, it seems that internal fan resistors fail causing the low speed function of fans to fail.. this makes the system pulse the fans at high speed too often which takes the toll on the 40A fuse probably the same one mentioned in this thread..
the thread is about golf mk4 V6, R32 and V5, seems tdi are in it too.. im guessing the TTs have the same faulty parts, can anyone confirm this?


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## Black Knight (Jan 16, 2007)

i checked on etka online and all part numbers are totaly different for VW but they look the same and cost exactly the same so they probably are the same..

another ignored design/manufacturing flaw by VAG. instead of losing money on it they are making money off it.. great... i doubt ill ever buy a VAG car again.. and if the TT resumes pissing me off i have an idea about driving to ingolstadt and crashing it into their main building.. i get my money back from insurance and they get their piece of crap back where it came from..

:evil:


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Black Knight said:


> interesting thread i found on golf 4 fans
> 
> http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/449470/ShowPost.aspx
> 
> ...


Interesting thread. If the part numbers are different is there a chance the fans are not two speed on the TT. I might leave mine idling and see what happens.

In the thread there is this fix. The resistors would have been better in the fan airflow though: http://website.lineone.net/~alan.james. ... epair.html


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