# Jumping traffic lights



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

What is it with traffic lights these days? It seems common that at least the last vehicle across the lights should have actually stopped - often two or three.

I was approaching a cross road dual carriageway traffic light on red at 40 mph in the right hand lane. There was a car stationary in the left lane waiting.

I see the lights change to orange and it's obvious they will be green by the time I get there.

I see a white van go through the lights on orange (he could have stopped) turning (his) right, going to my left across me.

The lights turn to green as I approach and he is turning across me, I flash the van to let him know I'm approaching.

The van clears out of the way but some joker is tailgating him (obviously going through on red) at this point, also turning (his) right across me - causing me to come to an abrupt stop in the middle of the crowded roads - lights still on accompanied by horn. Driver of other car looks confused. Why?

What is it with these people - they don't know what orange means and they think the first second of red doesn't count! :evil:


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Does seem that way John.

I do think some light setups are timed badly almost pushing people to do this but most of the time it's poor driver attitude.

I get paid wether I'm going through a red or stopping at one so you can guess which camp I'm in.


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## YoungOldUn (Apr 12, 2011)

I posted about the very same thing over 12 months since. It has got so bad that I now cross green lights with caution.


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

Big (oval) roundabout near me with lights, 3 lanes on roundabout. One of the directions, seems everyone just tries to get through after red. Always 2 or 3 cars steam through, they are going straight and seem to think it's okay. I enter at this set of lights, and always take my time pulling away after my light goes green, and ALWAYS look right as I move off. About 1 in 3 times I have to stop as yet another numpty flies through.


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## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

YoungOldUn said:


> I posted about the very same thing over 12 months since. It has got so bad that I now cross green lights with caution.


I always go on green with caution! I'm pretty sure it was drummed into me on my brief motorbike lessons.
I pulled up along side a chap once, tapped his window and told him he'd run a red. He looked bewildered!


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

There's a set of lights next to a collage where I stay, it gets pretty busy. The lights have no delay between one road going green and the other turning red, I've had a good few near misses with people screaming through a red thinking they have a few seconds to make it.


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## pipped (Nov 7, 2013)

When in Rome :roll:


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## Fizzleh (Jan 22, 2014)

I don't think half the drivers out there (excluding TT drivers) know what to do at roundabouts either.

As soon as 3 cars approach a roundabout at the same time they all stop but if there's just one other car they drive straight though it regardless of who's right of way it is.


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

How many other check their RVM when approaching a green signal?

Some years ago I was approaching such a signal which had been in long view for a while so it was likely that it would change before I got to it. It did and I started to brake only to hear the distinctive sound of locked wheels from the car behind.
Luckily the junction design allowed me to ease off the brakes and stop a car's length or so beyond the white line. 
That gave the errant driver room to stop his car without using mine for that purpose.
The odd thing then was that the very young male driver got out and swapped seats with the older female occupant.
Not sure what was going on but I didn't stay to find out.

I also check the RVM on the odd occasion that I go through an amber signal. It's sobering to see up to 3 cars follow through; cars which clearly could have stopped had the driver been awake, known what amber means or not had the forkems.


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

brittan said:


> How many other check their RVM when approaching a green signal?
> 
> Some years ago I was approaching such a signal which had been in long view for a while so it was likely that it would change before I got to it. It did and I started to brake only to hear the distinctive sound of locked wheels from the car behind.
> Luckily the junction design allowed me to ease off the brakes and stop a car's length or so beyond the white line.
> ...


Always check my RVM, but maybe because I've done a defensive driving course at work (including escape & evasion) and ride a motorbike, so well aware how much it'll hurt if a car ploughs into my rear.

Sounds like on your one above, mum was out with son and decided she was now driving so car got home in one piece


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

A fella at work tells me he was in a line of traffic crawling across a crossroad and stopped on amber as the lights changed and an irate woman behind him blew her horn at him and did the two handed open palmed exasperated gesture mouthing, "What did you stop for?" ..... err ... because you are supposed to as amber means stop! :roll:

Totally agree. Far better people stick to a common set of rules, when driving and negotiating confrontational rights off way like traffic lights, - called, "The Highway Code" - rather than making up their own unpublished interpretation and presume other people will somehow adopt their point of view, without any danger of them not doing so, when it matters most. :evil:

Once I was at a roadworks' traffic light. My light turned to green but I had to wait for a long line of tailgating jokers to clear out of the way - and I kid you not - as I started off the lights changed! Grrrr ... :evil: At least I had the satisfaction of giving the last few a blast of horn - after one of them passed grinning, giving me the thumbs up sign :?


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

John-H said:


> A fella at work tells me he was in a line of traffic crawling across a crossroad and stopped on amber as the lights changed and an irate woman behind him blew her horn at him and did the two handed open palmed exasperated gesture mouthing, "What did you stop for?" ..... err ... because you are supposed to as amber means stop! :roll:
> 
> Totally agree. Far better people stick to a common set of rules, when driving and negotiating confrontational rights off way like traffic lights, - called, "The Highway Code" - rather than making up their own unpublished interpretation and presume other people will somehow adopt their point of view, without any danger of them not doing so, when it matters most. :evil:
> 
> Once I was at a roadworks' traffic light. My light turned to green but I had to wait for a long line of tailgating jokers to clear out of the way - and I kid you not - as I started off the lights changed! Grrrr ... :evil: At least I had the satisfaction of giving the last few a blast of horn - after one of them passed grinning, giving me the thumbs up sign :?


I've had people beep me for stopping at amber lights too. I think the majority of people genuinely believe that amber means the same as green.

There were some temporary lights at some roadworks near work once. The controlled (single track) section was so long that the lights were on a very long cycle and because there was a bend you couldn't see the far end when you were at the lights. A number of times I saw someone at the front get impatient after waiting a minute or so, and just drive through the red light. Invariably they'd then meet a car coming the other way and with no passing points they'd be forced to reverse all the way back to the start of the roadworks to allow the other car to pass. Of course the lights will have cycled by the time they did all this and we'd be stuck on red again.


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## YoungOldUn (Apr 12, 2011)

The rhyme I was taught at a very early age should be taught in all schools -

STOP says the red light
GO says the green
WAIT says the amber light winking in between
That's what they say 
And that's what they mean
We all should obey them 
Even the queen.


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

YoungOldUn said:


> The rhyme I was taught at a very early age should be taught in all schools -
> 
> STOP says the red light
> GO says the green
> ...


Nice rhyme, except she doesn't, the plod outriders block the junction and she sails straight through... Happens in London all the time [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## YoungOldUn (Apr 12, 2011)

Yes I realise that Shug but the rhyme is from an age that did not feature terrorist and suchlike on British streets 

Perhaps some other noteworthy person should be substituted for the queen.


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

YoungOldUn said:


> Yes I realise that Shug but the rhyme is from an age that did not feature terrorist and suchlike on British streets
> 
> Perhaps some other noteworthy person should be substituted for the queen.


I'd love to substitute the queen with someone noteworthy :lol:

Jimmy krankie will do.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Doesn't rhyme with green though


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

brian1978 said:


> YoungOldUn said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I realise that Shug but the rhyme is from an age that did not feature terrorist and suchlike on British streets
> ...


Actually I have no problem with the Queen being rushed though, it's all the other minor royals and hanger ons that the special protection bikers have to stop traffic for that needs to be reviewed.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Here's a test which may go some way to explain things.

Answer the following questions without thinking too hard and saying the answer out loud - and be honest. In fact try this out on someone else as it probably works best verbally.

(1) How do you spell shop?

(2) What do you do at a green light?

See, how many people said stop? Honest now :wink:


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## YoungOldUn (Apr 12, 2011)

Oh Oh, just failed that one.

Does this mean I am dyslexically colour blind :?


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## spaceplace (Mar 10, 2013)

Personally if it isn't red I'm going though it, better than slamming on the brakes and getting rear ended, in some countries they have a count down until it goes red, think this is a good idea.


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## YoungOldUn (Apr 12, 2011)

spaceplace said:


> Personally if it isn't red I'm going though it, better than slamming on the brakes and getting rear ended, in some countries they have a count down until it goes red, think this is a good idea.


So if I am reading this correctly it is better to be 'T' boned or to 'T' bone someone rather than be rear ended because the person following you has the same mindset as you? No wonder there are accidents at controlled junctions


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## TomBorehamUK (Feb 2, 2014)

YoungOldUn said:


> spaceplace said:
> 
> 
> > Personally if it isn't red I'm going though it, better than slamming on the brakes and getting rear ended, in some countries they have a count down until it goes red, think this is a good idea.
> ...


Is this not the purpose of Amber? Stop at the stop line unless it is unsafe to do so. I.E when you've already crossed it or are very close to the stop line where you'd have to brake harshly and possibly cause an accident.


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## spaceplace (Mar 10, 2013)

Red means stop anything else means go in my mind, it's how I've driven for 15+ years and never come even close to being hit, going through red lights is when you get hit


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

spaceplace said:


> Red means stop anything else means go in my mind, it's how I've driven for 15+ years and never come even close to being hit, going through red lights is when you get hit


i know you think your 15+ years are a good demonstration that it's safe, but in reality it's a pretty poor statistic. All you've really proven is that going through on amber isn't *100% guaranteed* to cause a crash.

Out of interest, if you always go through on amber, how do you avoid the situation where the lights change to red just before you cross the line but too late for you to stop?


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

spaceplace said:


> Red means stop anything else means go in my mind, it's how I've driven for 15+ years and never come even close to being hit, going through red lights is when you get hit


We call all learn bad habits and operate under a misconception for years without realising the error but when we learn the truth and have it pointed out to us we should correct our behavior - I've done this myself over some aspects of motoring where the law changed without me realising or I'd just assumed wrongly for example and more importantly where there is an immediate danger.

Therefore when you check the highway code, which reflects legislation on this matter and see that AMBER MEANS STOP when safe to do so, I'm sure your spirit of community to help prevent accidents will prevail.


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## spaceplace (Mar 10, 2013)

I know you're meant to stop and I don't always go through an amber, if I see it coming in plenty of time I'll stop. I find it easy enough to judge- if it's only just turned amber then I go, if it's been amber for a second or 2 then I'll stop, there's always a delay between the one set going red and the other set going green, I've just never had any close calls, been beeped or anything remotely dangerous.


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## rw5340 (Aug 22, 2014)

All you need is 2 "Amber Gamblers" at the same time. Then the luck runs out :lol:


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## samgilding (Feb 5, 2014)

rw5340 said:


> All you need is 2 "Amber Gamblers" at the same time. Then the luck runs out :lol:


Not really as there's never 2 sets of lights on Amber. Like all things, a bit of common sense and judgement is needed when deciding what's acceptable and what isn't.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

samgilding said:


> rw5340 said:
> 
> 
> > All you need is 2 "Amber Gamblers" at the same time. Then the luck runs out :lol:
> ...


if you cross the line just as it goes to red (always a risk once you've commited to not stopping) and the other car jumps the lights as they change from green, you can both end up in the junction at the same time, particularly in junctions that are large and take more time to clear.

The *only* common sense approach is to stop on amber when safe to do so.


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## spaceplace (Mar 10, 2013)

Just close your eyes when you come to traffic lights and put your right foot down


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## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

A very long time ago I had to build a crossroads traffic light system with some electrical components and LED's. There is no way two people can see an amber at the same time. The worst case is where one changes from amber to red at the same time as the other changes from red to red+amber.

p.s. LED's were just for an exercise, I wasn't expecting any drivers to see these!

Be careful out there. They are out to get you.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Pugwash69 said:


> The worst case is where one changes from amber to red at the same time as the other changes from red to red+amber.


Going through on amber isn't the problem though. The problem is that by trying to squeeze through on amber, you leave yourself open to the lights going red when it's too late for you to stop (because back when it *was* possible to stop safely you decided to keep going).

This is why they're called "amber gamblers" - not because they gamble with chance of being hit while their light is amber, but because they gamble with the chance of being hit because they left themselves no option but to go through a red light.


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## TomBorehamUK (Feb 2, 2014)

Pugwash69 said:


> There is no way two people can see an amber at the same time.


Hmmm, I don't know about that. Unless they're all very short sighted I'm sure all the traffic behind me can see the amber light too 

...Me and my mate dated an Amber at the same time once too.


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## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

Ooh elaborate! (not the traffic light story)


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Coming out of tesco last a car gambles on amber, then car behind him (one in front of me) goes through on a clear red, good second or two after the red is on. I think the usual... where's the bloody police when you want to see them lol.....

What comes sauntering out of the other side of the junction.... A police car, does they do their sworn duty and uphold the law?

Do they fuck, apparently jumping a red light is only punishable if the officer can be arsed pulling you over :?


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

brian1978 said:


> Coming out of tesco last a car gambles on amber, then car behind him (one in front of me) goes through on a clear red, good second or two after the red is on. I think the usual... where's the bloody police when you want to see them lol.....
> 
> What comes sauntering out of the other side of the junction.... A police car, does they do their sworn duty and uphold the law?
> 
> Do they fuck, apparently jumping a red light is only punishable if the officer can be arsed pulling you over :?


They were probably looking for people transporting eggs


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Shug750S said:


> brian1978 said:
> 
> 
> > Coming out of tesco last a car gambles on amber, then car behind him (one in front of me) goes through on a clear red, good second or two after the red is on. I think the usual... where's the bloody police when you want to see them lol.....
> ...


Probably :lol:


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## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

Too busy on their way to a drugs search somewhere, probably. They need evidence to pull you for jumping a red light.


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Pugwash69 said:


> Too busy on their way to a drugs search somewhere, probably. They need evidence to pull you for jumping a red light.


because watching you drive through it is never enough 

only place they were on their way to was the kebab shop :lol:


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## hooting_owl (Sep 3, 2008)

i have developed a habit of slowing down at all junctions even on clear green so that i can have a good look each way before crossing over. it is quite normal for people to drive whilst boozed or boxed out of their heads, using cars with cloned plates. 
i have had numerous instances of cars appearing from random directions into my 'right of way'. it is like Mad Max around here and the worst offenders are.....cyclists. i feel a thread coming on....


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

One habit I've noticed on the increase is halfwits creeping across the line onto the crossing when waiting for the lights to change, I mean what's the fekkin point, they are not getting anywhere faster. They might as well just keep going... they're through the bloody red light anyway. :roll:


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

In Nairobi this week, no one even bothers with traffic lights, doesn't matter if they are red, everyone just keeps going. Most junctions are gridlocked as a result as no one seems to want to leave a gap so others can get through the junction.

Only time people comply with lights is if cops are standing there looking to ticket people, and then it gets even worse as cops tend to direct traffic onto roundabout at one entrance only so whole thing clogs up again instantly.

Joys of travel I suppose.

Only positive, despite neat total gridlock, and every car changing lanes whenever with no signals, no one gives it's just a judgement call on who is in front so eventually when cars are about 1/8th inch apart one gives way, but no road rage at all, everyone seems to accept it and they all just sit there, edging forward an inch at a time.


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## arpuc (Jun 14, 2014)

I see this every day in Cardiff, I've even seen people changing down and flooring it way after the lights have changed to red. One woman was so late the green man was showing, she had to slam on the brakes when people started crossing. She was hitting the steering wheel in anger so hard I thought she was gonna set the air bag off. And don't start me on buses.......


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