# why i don't ride a motorbike



## hooting_owl (Sep 3, 2008)

because fuckwits are everywhere, intent on maiming you.

at roundabout and twat in golf fails to spot bike coming around the roundabout (fairly slowly, but banked over - i am guessing you can't brake a bike when it is leaning over a bit). bike was lit up like a nuclear blast, you could not miss it. twat proceeds to slowly enter the roundabout, biker just about makes it through but is probably washing his leathers out this evening.

then there are the potholes and generally shitty roads....

i have thought about taking my bike test a few times now, but things like this really put me off.


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## Bladerider (Dec 2, 2009)

It is a bit scary,

And theres SMIDSY's everywhere. But its a great feeling, totally different to a car and the time it can save on journeys is ubelievable until you have done it !!

Dont be too put off, but dont skimp on decent leathers etc cos its not really a case of whether or not you will come off, more just a question of when and what into !!  

i still wouldnt not want to be able to ride though.

Oh and it trebles you quality as a car driver !!

J.


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## triplefan (Sep 3, 2008)

I think 6 months on a motorcycle should be mandatory for all car drivers, then all the rest of the fuckwits out there might realise just how useless they are, and vulnerable we are. You've all had some arsehole 6 feet of your bumper, virtually pushing you down the road, try leaving a reasonable breaking distance in the wet, with Mr 6ft behind you.



Bladerider said:


> Oh and it trebles you quality as a car driver !!


Never a truer word said, and if you use those skills when driving, you will be in the top 10% of road users (as are all bikers on here  )

Add in shorter journey times, phenomenal performance, huge fun factor, they are hard to beat


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

I can understand the appeal of being able to nip past the traffic, and the insane acceleration. And never being on one I probably can't say this, but...

I'd go for a simple roadster of a bike, e.g. an MX-5. You have to wrap up in so much protective gear to use a bike safely you may as well be in a car. With the roof down you get the elements swishing about around you. Plus the added benefit of four wheels. Sure straight line speed anywhere near that of a bike, but if you want speed, book a plane flight....


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## triplefan (Sep 3, 2008)

Dash said:


> I'd go for an MX-5


Wash your mouth out young man


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## Bladerider (Dec 2, 2009)

Dash said:


> And never being on one I probably can't say this, but...
> ...


Always amazes me on forums.

People with no experience of the topic feel they can chip in !! lol 

You wouldnt do it if two doctors were discussing something in a hospital "Yeah mate, Im not a doctor but I reckon you should remove his pancreas completely, what harm could it do" or people down a pub were discussing the way to somewhere for directions "Never been there, but its gotta be left at the roundabout and 2 miles up the motorway surely"

Until you have actually experienced a bike you wouldnt know the feeling we bikers all know about, and its got very little to do with wind in the hair !!

J.


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## MTW (Sep 16, 2009)

Likewise, have my heart set on a ktm Rc9 but putting my life in the hands of other motorists ability puts me off.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Snake TT (Jul 13, 2007)

Sat in a traffic jam the other day whilst some biker goes passed riding the central line on the road avoiding all the traffic.............neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, splutter, neeeeeeeeee, goes out of sight up ahead, neeeeeeeeeeeeeee *BANG!!!!*

As I open my door and step out so see whats happened, all the other 30 odd drivers in front do the same. Seems biker nugget had clipped a car in my lane up ahead and spanged his bike into the other lane right in the path of a bus and fallen off the bike. Luckily the bike took the full force of the bus and was in bits. The guy seemed okay and was being helped up by people.

Another time a bike passed me in the fast lane of the motorway and out of sight. A few seconds later all the traffic came to a stop and I could see the bike and rider on the floor. A car had pulled into the fast lane right in front of the bike sending it into the back of the car. Rider fell of and was hit by another car and killed.

I like bikes but I could never ride one.


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## denimblue225turbo (Aug 28, 2009)

I had 8 months on bikes, use to track with a K5 gsxr600 and road with a K7 Sv650, cant beat the feeling of being on a bike, you cannot physically compare it to anything else, the acceleration, speed, just general feeling of freeness (i doubt thats a word) and how alert you have to be because everything you do with your body affects the bike, seriously is like you and the bike are one (sounds cheesy but most bikers will agree), being able to nip in and out of traffic, get to the front of que's and jams, the summer weather is amazing (when we get some).
Long and short of it bikes are great, but you have to remember there are people on the road that drive with their head up their arse and dont look anywhere apart from where their going and unfortunatley after just 8 months i got hit by a car as i was overtaking, completely his fault as he pleaded guilty i court, but i am the one at 22 years old that has to live with the chance that i am never going to be able to walk properly without crutches for the rest of my life, depression, anxiety, money problems (at the moment), constantly at hospital, multiple surgeries, pressure on long term relationship and everything else that comes with having a big accident.
Its the chance you take, but be willing to end up dead :?


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## Bladerider (Dec 2, 2009)

Well put Denim,

Almost exactly the same for me, although I was lucky and got away with very minor injuries.

You can always tell the bikers from non bikers on these threads. The bikers all know of a million accidents and incidents, but they often involve family and close friends, so we discuss it in terms to make people understand events surrounding stuff. Car drivers tend to just put Boke went up road, got clipped and run over by a bus. The difference is we know that risk, have likel;y come close ourselves usually not through our own actions, and hence accept the risk but also the reasoning behind it. Until you have ridden bikes for a while you simply wont undrstand, it will always be "I fancy the idea of a bike to go fast and nip through traffic, but the idea scares me" which is kinda not the point, but you often only find that out once you start riding !!

 

J.


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## denimblue225turbo (Aug 28, 2009)

Thats the thing i bought my first ever bike (SV650) as a 21st birthday present for myself, put myself through the test and was well happy, i thought great, i can do 140mph everywhere i go  but the truth of the matter was i actually prefered just cruising about on the roads because i got into tracking with a couple of mates and that was awesome for proper riding, but road riding was just a hobby really, i wish i could still ride and as soon as i see another bike i would much rather be on that than sitting in a car but 1. i cant get on a bike and 2. i think i would be a nervous reck and end up smashing it :?


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Bladerider said:


> Always amazes me on forums.
> 
> People with no experience of the topic feel they can chip in !! lol


I don't think you understand how discussion forums work...

I have plenty of experience, just not in riding a motorcycle. 

Sure, I can see the excitement of riding a bike - so can I see jumping off a cliff. Nothing like a bit of risk to get the heart pumping. It's a dangerous mode of transport (relatively). I also know from having used a push bike how intimidating have a car next to you is. Especially in fast flowing traffic.

I'm sure a lot of you are better drivers due to you awareness of your vulnerability as a rider. But I have also seen a large number of bikers acting like complete nobs.

Recently near me there have been a number of signs put up saying "think bike". All along double white-line roads (not side roads going onto the main road either). Think what? Some prat of a rider deciding to start overtaking because traffic comes to a halt, and then is shocked to find a car turning right?

Motorcycles (inc scooters) are too accessible. They should be limited to 21 and over, with at least x number of years driving experience.


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## denimblue225turbo (Aug 28, 2009)

in that situation then your right, no one but the biker is at fault, double whites, and queing traffic its clearly a hazard and obviously breaking the law, but just because some bikers act like dicks, doesnt mean we all do and therefor does that mean sensible riders shouldnt be looked out for on the road and drivers be aware of them being there :?


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Agreed, bikers should be looked out for, along with any other object on the road. It was just the think bike signs in odd places that confused me.

Bikes are harder to spot which puts them at a disadvantage. The organisation I work for deals heavily with motor-accidents, and it's not exclusive to bikes not being spotted. My experience of cars pulling out in front of cars is enough to make me cautious of junctions in my car - I'd be petrified on a motorcycle.

People do drift off and stop paying attention when driving. Moving a vehicle in rush hour traffic is not especially demanding. And people will always make mistakes - we turn over millions due to this. Which is why you'll never find me on a motorcycle. Education will reduce accidents but never eliminate them.


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## denimblue225turbo (Aug 28, 2009)

completely agree with that


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Il post up some pics of my injuries and that might put some off you off. Saying That I now have another after my samsh a CB1300. I had a 4x4 take me out at approx 25mph and I was wearing 1200 quid worth of gear, leathers lid the lot guys

I had

Broken pelvis into 5 pecies ( Still broken)
Broke both clavicales (shoulders) (Still have pain)
Ruputred Spleen ( Lost it) (get infection easily now)
Ruptured Left Kidney ( Lost it)
Ruptured Adreenal Gland
Broken Scofoid (Thump) (Still get a pain)
Few broken ribs

Was given a 50/50 chance of living and told if I lived Id never walk again!

yeap back on a bike, once a biker always a biker, cant beat the feeling!


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## Bladerider (Dec 2, 2009)

I know how discussion forums work.

Thats why i was laughing !!

In any other place someone with zero experince of the subject would just offer a simple opinion of if they liked it or not, rather than suggesting you might be better off doing something totally different. lol

It wasn't a massive dig, and you are spot on that bikers are their own worst enemy at times and there is a section of riders (usually the new ones, just like I was once) that feel invulnerable and can hoon past anything on one wheel and sod the consequences. I have no problem with you saying you think they're dangerous or any other observation you wish to make, but until you have actually ridden a bike properly and realised the difference its pointless trying to explain how not like an MX5 it is !!

lol

J.


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## ScoobyTT (Aug 24, 2009)

Bladerider said:


> ...there is a section of riders (usually the new ones, just like I was once) that feel invulnerable and can hoon past anything on one wheel and sod the consequences.


I propose that these people be called "Geoffs" or "Hoonatics" :wink:


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## Bladerider (Dec 2, 2009)

lol

Normally we just call them donors !!!

 

J.


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## E (May 7, 2002)

Dash said:


> Bladerider said:
> 
> 
> > Always amazes me on forums.
> ...


Motorcycles are not too accessible, there are age and power limits depending on your experience. I dont know the current rules as I passed my bike test 17 years ago.

But car drivers can get into any car no matter what size, there are no power restrictions, I think any road user should have training in both cars and bikes so that they are aware of what other road users are up against.

E


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Wait till 2013 and then your NEVER be able to get a bike licence pretty much 12 stage tests come in :roll: :lol:


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

E said:


> Motorcycles are not too accessible, there are age and power limits depending on your experience. I dont know the current rules as I passed my bike test 17 years ago.
> 
> But car drivers can get into any car no matter what size, there are no power restrictions, I think any road user should have training in both cars and bikes so that they are aware of what other road users are up against.


There are restrictions, but not enough IMO. I agree with the car too. There should be limitations on size and power on the vehicle. I think some countries have, or toyed with the idea, of banning new drivers from carting teenagers around with them without an experienced driver in the vehicle.


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Dash read my post buddy. 2013 it comes in. I know there has been loads of talk on this, but this is now true and a mate of mine (Bike instructor) has to start getting the training to teach this soon


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Not knowing anything about the new rules, I can't say yay or not, but the idea of tightening these things up is good imo. It's too easy to be allowed on the road.

It's too easy to be allowed on the Internet too, but that's another argument...


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## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

I love the idea of a motorbike, but the reality scares me.

My Grandfather was a surgeon back in his day and he had a TV show so he has loads of slides etc, which when I was 16ish my Mum got him to show me - holy crap that put me off, people smeared all over the road, limbs very much disconnected from their owners [smiley=bigcry.gif] = put me off good and proper 

I love acceleration rather than outright speed and there is no better way to experience that on the road than on a fast bike, (I would think) but for me all the other idiots make the roads dangerous enough for car drivers, as a motorcyclist = ruddy lethal.

Charlie


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## denimblue225turbo (Aug 28, 2009)

i would say anyone that really really wanted to get into bikes is do it, but keep it to track days


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## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

denimblue225turbo said:


> i would say anyone that really really wanted to get into bikes is do it, but keep it to track days


Or off road enduro or rallying or even trail biking its great fun


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

I am actually surprised on how easily it is to get and insure bikes.
My situation :
40
passed test nearly three years ago
had a bike for just over two years

Just bought a Blackbird (an 1100 for those none bikers)

Now this bike is quite heavy and has a big power output. It used to be the worlds fastest production bike.

So I bought one for just over an easily attainable £5k. I've then insured it along with my CBR600F for under £400.

Disregarding the damage I could do to myself, I could do a lot of damage on this 1/4 tonne lump of metal that can be doing 100mph in less than 5 secs. I was surprised how cheap it was to get to this level of performance.

I mentioned my age as I know I wouldn't be here if I'd start riding in my 20s. I have a lot more maturity now and with a young family the most important thing is returning each and every day. I'm constantly looking at self improvement (as many bikersdo) and have been training for my IAM. If the weather hadn't been so crap over the last 3 months then that would have been ticked off.

I've done around 26k miles on bikes now. That's a lot more than some people riding for 10 years. I hope that my ability and experience is climbing quickly. As I've seen written before : you start with two buckets. One is full of luck and the other is for experience. The idea is to fill the second bucket before the first is empty. However as we all know it's not just about what I do on a bike. It's a lot to do with all the others "that are out there to get you".

If you maintain the mindset that ANY accident* your involved in is your fault i.e. was there really nothing you could have done not ot be involved and you aslo assume that you're invisible then you'll be getting into the right sort of mindset.

Riding a bike is incredible and despite doing many many trackdays and 'rings laps in cars, nothing has compared to riding a bike. The challenge is far greater than I'd ever imagined. I really had no idea it was so difficult to ride well but the rewards are there. I commute in and out of the City everyday. Many people say it's mad. If I didn't go by bike then I'd hardly see my kids. There's no right or wrong to it. It's a personal judgement and I respect those who choose not to. I just hope they respect my choice to ride. I don't expect favours from car drivers ... although it is appreciated when they do assist. What I never anticipated was idiots who try to stop you. i.e. because they're stuck in traffic think "why should he get past?" I've had it three times when I've been filtering through slowly on a blocked motorway when someone deliberately pulls over to stop my progress. It just screws my mind trying to work out what's going through theirs. Knowing that each car could have one of these in certainly focuses my attention.

I like the new "advert" where the bikers are named. Research has showed that car drivers who have family members or know people who ride are less likely to be involved in accidents involving bikes. Hopefully the next time you see a biker you might think....hey that could be one of my mates off the forum. It could help him and protect you :wink:

* - My "ANY accident" comment may annoy/upset people so let me put it in context. I was sitting stationary at red traffic lights. White van man drove in to me becuase he was reading the news paper on the passenger seat and didn't realise he was creeping forwards. In my mind that was my fault. I shouldn't have put myself in that position. I should have been more aware of what was going on behind me. Legally it was him. However if the result to me could be that I don't see the outcome of any court case coz I'm 6ft under then it's not really relevant. As they say "there's no point being dead right".


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## Bladerider (Dec 2, 2009)

Excellent post Scotty.

[smiley=cheers.gif]

Thanks.


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## triplefan (Sep 3, 2008)

Seconded, and I really identify with the comment about drivers deliberately impeding your progress


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## E (May 7, 2002)

As a kid I grew up around motorbikes my dad would take me and my 2 brothers to Motocross nearly every weekend and I would wander round the car park looking at all the bikes. When my oldest brother got his FS1E I would badger him to go on the back, I was only 10, and once even swiped his keys and had a ride of it, I remeber him once taking me to school on the back of his TS250 and we slid off on the ice, again I could of only been 11 or so and still loved bikes.

But then my brother, the eldest is 6 years older than me, had a bad accident on his Z650 in Cornwall, too fast round a corner and went over/through a stone wall, almost lost his leg and was in traction for months and had a pin from his arse to his knee for a year or so and I was put off bikes completely. I started getting into cars and so it was until I got the biking bug when I was about 25 and passed my test.

I think it was partly my brother getting back into bikes and me thinking I was a bit more sensible to start biking. I progressed from a 125 to a 250 to a 600 and have had a bike pretty much all the time since passing my test, 17 years ago.

Personally I think I left it later in life to start riding as I had grown more sensible, and careful, I did all my crashing with a load of steel around me (cars)
As my earlier post I think all road users should have experience of both 2 and 4 wheels to see the dangers other road users are up against. I ride a cycle on the road as well and this means when i'm driving a car I give cyclists a wide bearth as I know what they are up against.

E


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Sorry E disagree, your far better to get out on a bike asap and get as much experience as you can!

I started at a young age then:

16 Years RS50
17 Years CBR250RRR
19 Years ZXR400 SV400S
21 Years CB1300

Im statistics far less likley to have an accident then most of my mates even tho I am just 21 as I have 5 years experience. I pay £280 fully comp on a £5k bike that will do 0-62mph in 2.8 sec, so clearly insurance company dont put me as much of a risk compared to a mate 30 years old 2 years exp on a cbr600 and he pays near on £1k :lol:


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Bikerz said:


> Sorry E disagree, your far better to get out on a bike asap and get as much experience as you can!
> 
> I started at a young age then:
> 
> ...


dont agree at all...  ,, i think that before you are even allowed on a bike you should have a full car licence and three years experience,, that way you are going to have some idea of road craft. , just my 2p woth , but i have many years experience ( good and bad :roll: ) of both 
17 matchless 350 single
18 some sort of Vellocette 
18 BSA 650 goldie
32 KE 125
35 yamy 175 mx
40 (ish ) Kawasaki Z1000 Mk2, ( much much modded ) crashed it three times and gave up !!!


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Nope. I started on a bike, had a full bike licence before I had a car and belive I did it the right way round.

Doing it how I did it enabled me to pass car test with no minors 1st time round with harley any lessons. Im far more sensible than mates as knowing for 3 years before hand, if I cock up or dont pay attension this could cost me my life, whilst in a car it doesnt (well not half as much, hitt a drain cover in the wet in a car wont hurt you, try doing it on a bike :wink: )

Your argument of raod craft I send stright back at you as I gained road craft ona bike that I now use in the car also


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Bikerz said:


> Nope. I started on a bike, had a full bike licence before I had a car and belive I did it the right way round.
> 
> Doing it how I did it enabled me to pass car test with no minors 1st time round with harley any lessons. Im far more sensible than mates as knowing for 3 years before hand, if I cock up or dont pay attension this could cost me my life, whilst in a car it doesnt (well not half as much, hitt a drain cover in the wet in a car wont hurt you, try doing it on a bike :wink: )
> 
> Your argument of raod craft I send stright back at you as I gained road craft ona bike that I now use in the car also


mate, you are lucky to have survived your experiences / lessons , and without trying to sound sensationalist ! , many have not,,, your example of the wet drain cover i think is perfect one, white lines, people pulling out, ask denimblue, your self me and so many others,, etc., better learning in a car what it can do than on a bike !!!!


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Well its still a playup i guess. I stand by if you survive on a bike your a better road user (you only have to see you car premium drop when you say you have a full bike licence  as Statictally your a safer road user)

Ok I know there are hundreds of mad scooter boys out there, but they are just that, scooter boys and will be car drivers at 17 not motocyclists. These are the accident problem ones.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

well yes i would agree in one respect " if " you survive being thrown in at the deep end you may / will come out more proficient and that most mature bikers are , in general, better drivers than most car drivers,( but that has probabablly got more to do with them being more " into " their driving and the machines compared to car drivers who mostly only drive because they have to !! ) but when it comes to learning then it is better / safer to learn in a safe environment, and no one is going to argue that on a bike is a safer environment than in a car !!!!
not finished !!!
i am not puting myself up as any sort of expert but i do have lots of experience, and had many crashes, ( a great way to learn !! ) or comparing my self in any way to you, but since you put yourself up as an example... :wink: ,,looking at your c.v. you have gained all this expertice in your years of biking,, well i see you have had your cb1300 since you were 21 and had your bad accident on it, well that must have been fairly recent as you are still 21,, where is the expertice ????   ( i know accidents can happen and as i have said i have had plenty so i am not being judgmental ! )


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## Gone (May 5, 2009)

I try to look out for bikes and I move over when it's safe to do so but, in crawling traffic they come up so bloody fast alongside the cars - riding alongside a line of crawling traffic even 30 mph is bloody fast - you'd have to be looking in your mirrors every other second to spot them all.

Every night I drive along a 2 lane dual carriageway with a 30 mph limit and the oncoming traffic separated by nothing but a half metre wide set of chevrons. In my direction heavy traffic flows at 30 mph in both lanes but in the other direction both lanes are at a standstill. Guess what? EVERY bike along there comes sneaking down the chevrons, inches from the oncoming traffic. That is not responsible, sensible or safe and it is the norm, not the odd biker here and there.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

badyaker said:


> I try to look out for bikes and I move over when it's safe to do so but, in crawling traffic they come up so bloody fast alongside the cars - riding alongside a line of crawling traffic even 30 mph is bloody fast - you'd have to be looking in your mirrors every other second to spot them all.
> 
> Every night I drive along a 2 lane dual carriageway with a 30 mph limit and the oncoming traffic separated by nothing but a half metre wide set of chevrons. In my direction heavy traffic flows at 30 mph in both lanes but in the other direction both lanes are at a standstill. Guess what? EVERY bike along there comes sneaking down the chevrons, inches from the oncoming traffic. That is not responsible, sensible or safe and it is the norm, not the odd biker here and there.


you dont have to be looking in your mirrors " every other second " ,,,, just when you decide to pull out !!!


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

I was 17 and was taken off my CBR250RRR. Thats the only accident ive had, rather a life changing one tho sadley [smiley=argue.gif]


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

badyaker said:


> I try to look out for bikes and I move over when it's safe to do so but, in crawling traffic they come up so bloody fast alongside the cars - riding alongside a line of crawling traffic even 30 mph is bloody fast - you'd have to be looking in your mirrors every other second to spot them all.
> 
> Every night I drive along a 2 lane dual carriageway with a 30 mph limit and the oncoming traffic separated by nothing but a half metre wide set of chevrons. In my direction heavy traffic flows at 30 mph in both lanes but in the other direction both lanes are at a standstill. Guess what? EVERY bike along there comes sneaking down the chevrons, inches from the oncoming traffic. That is not responsible, sensible or safe and it is the norm, not the odd biker here and there.


You live in london tho, thast only the NORM in LONDON! :roll:


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

badyaker said:


> EVERY bike along there comes sneaking down the chevrons, inches from the oncoming traffic. That is not responsible, sensible or safe and it is the norm, not the odd biker here and there.


It's hard to comment had good or bad a decision it is without seeing the road .... but if EVERY bike does it then can it really be that bad?

How wide is the chevron area? I assume it's got a dashed boundary?


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Bikerz said:


> I was 17 and was taken off my CBR250RRR. Thats the only accident ive had, rather a life changing one tho sadley [smiley=argue.gif]


sorry ,, i got those details mixed up !!!!


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

:lol:

The angry bit wasnt at you but the tosser that got me, blind dimbat!


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## Gone (May 5, 2009)

scoTTy said:


> badyaker said:
> 
> 
> > EVERY bike along there comes sneaking down the chevrons, inches from the oncoming traffic. That is not responsible, sensible or safe and it is the norm, not the odd biker here and there.
> ...


The chevrons are no more than half a metre wide, and the lanes are narrow - about as wide as the lane restrictions in motorway roadworks - hence the 30 & 40 mph limits. The bikes pass the oncoming cars at closing speeds over 40 mph, with barely inches to spare. If there were to be a head on collision - and one day there will be - both the rider and the car driver would be seriously injured or worse.

I don't see what the dashed boundary, being in London or the number of riders doing it has to do with it to be honest, it would be the same anywhere else with any other road markings. But if you want to take a look, go on Google streetview and look at the A316 at Twickenham. All I said was its was not responsible, sensible or safe. I don't have any sort of vendetta against bikes and like I said, I keep a lookout and let those guys past when I can. So pull your necks in please!


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## denimblue225turbo (Aug 28, 2009)

i agree with Bikerz, being on a bike before i had a car made the transition to the car soo much easier, because you have early experience of what its like to be on the road with other road users ecspecially when your on a little 50cc moped, you go so slow that you cant do too much damage (i know you could still do massive damage but its a lot less likely) but you get to learn about road positions, observations, speed limits, all of which a lot of people take for granted in a car.


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

badyaker said:


> scoTTy said:
> 
> 
> > badyaker said:
> ...


NO :roll: Have you seen many bike acident where a car driver has cared about anything rather than loosing his NCB? :twisted: 
When I had my accident the women that got me, said in her witness statement " I think hes learnt his leson for riding such a dangerous thing" TALK ABOUT MAKING BLOOD BOIL, she nearly killed me just becuas she couldnt be bothered to look and she shows no remorse at all.

London is totaly different from here honest, I cant belive how some get away with it in London or Paris etc.. But they been doing it all the time as they see it all the time. It doesnt happen everywhere as common place at all


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

denimblue225turbo said:


> i agree with Bikerz, being on a bike before i had a car made the transition to the car soo much easier, because you have early experience of what its like to be on the road with other road users ecspecially when your on a little 50cc moped, you go so slow that you cant do too much damage (i know you could still do massive damage but its a lot less likely) but you get to learn about road positions, observations, speed limits, all of which a lot of people take for granted in a car.


Thanks buddy.

Speed has NOTHING to do with it. Read my injuries and bear in mind I was doing 25mph and was wear full leather lid boots gloves worth about £1200 your know I was as safe as I could be in that respect. People have a mad view that speed kills? Speed never killed anyone, hit solid objects like 4x4 kills. Ive crashed at 140mph on a track, got up rubed myself own and thourght **** that hurt hows the bike?


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## denimblue225turbo (Aug 28, 2009)

NO :roll: Have you seen many bike acident where a car driver has cared about anything rather than loosing his NCB? :twisted: 
When I had my accident the women that got me, said in her witness statement " I think hes learnt his leson for riding such a dangerous thing" TALK ABOUT MAKING BLOOD BOIL, she nearly killed me just becuas she couldnt be bothered to look and she shows no remorse at all.

London is totaly different from here honest, I cant belive how some get away with it in London or Paris etc.. But they been doing it all the time as they see it all the time. It doesnt happen everywhere as common place at all[/quote][/quote]

Yeah tell me about it, i was all fucked up in the ditch, ambulance, fire brigade and police were all there, plus a fair few other passers by and my brother had got there with my mum and my brother overheard the police asking what had happened to the driver who hit me and he said ' i swerved because i saw something in the road and didnt realise the motorbike was next to me' and at that point my brother said to him (trying to keep his cool as the police were there) 'you swerved because you didnt know he was there and look what you have done' and he replied 'well look at the scratch and dent down the side of my car'.......best bit was....it werent even his car, it was a courtesy car!!! so he was more worried about paying out the excess to the hire car company than the fact he could of so easily just killed me. 
Some people are a joke :x


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

I could tell you a horrid story about the police that would make everyones blood boil - Even Marks! The copper got a kicking off my mum ( a danity size 6 lady) and due to what he said suprise suprise he never mentioned it after and is now being persued for his job, nothing to do with me or my family Mark, but due to solicitor and baraster as he didnt do his job, unrealted to what he said to my mother to make he kick the living **** out of her (tho will get off as they all do [smiley=argue.gif] )

People make assumptions, I can live with this, all bikers are looneys is a big one and to me all 4x4 drivers ar knob heads, I live with it, so it you drive a 4x4 live with that!


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

" denimblue ", are you not missing the point a bit,, the issue ( OP ) is saftey on a motorbike, not saftey in a car, and yes , years on a bike is going to make you a safer / better car driver,,, but do you want to make your mistakes with a metal box as protection or a layer of skin !!!,, ok, aided by helmet and leathers, which only help for abrasion, not colision.


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

True roddy. But you are less likely to have an accident being on a bike :wink: Just if you do it could end very badley (but only for 1 or 2 people)


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Bikerz said:


> True roddy. But you are less likely to have an accident being on a bike :wink: Just if you do it could end very badley (but only for 1 or 2 people)


sure mate , and if you are comparing which bike rider is going to be safer, the one who learned on a bike and is still on a bike , or the one who learned in a car and sometime later made the move to a bike, then for sure the long time biker is going to be safer, all / what i am saying is learn in the safest poss place,, in a car,,, 
PS ,,i love bikes, all types,, from Montessa throo Ducatis to Harleys etc, ( even mountain bikes !! ) so dont think that i am in any way " anti bike ",, if i thought i could keep myself alive i would have one,, tho it would have to ba a Kwaker


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Harleys? :roll: GET OUT NOW!
:lol:

Yeap I used to have a Kawk ZXR Ninja - Loved the green paint job, I looked like a racer even when stoped at the traffic lights, loved it!


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

badyaker said:


> scoTTy said:
> 
> 
> > badyaker said:
> ...


That does sound tight on space and fast. The dashed boundary certainly makes a difference when I'm riding as they should to anyone who knows the Highway Code. I don't see anyone suggesting you're on a vendetta nor any reason for the comment about winding necks in? :?


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Bikerz said:


> Speed has NOTHING to do with it. Read my injuries and bear in mind I was doing 25mph and was wear full leather lid boots gloves worth about £1200 your know I was as safe as I could be in that respect. People have a mad view that speed kills? Speed never killed anyone, hit solid objects like 4x4 kills. Ive crashed at 140mph on a track, got up rubed myself own and thourght **** that hurt hows the bike?


Speed has everything to do with it. Would you rather hit one of those solid objects at 10mph or 110mph? Saying that you were badly injured hitting a car at 25mph, but hardly hurt at all sliding along the tarmac at 140mph is hardly scientific proof that speed has no influence on the severity of a crash... It just means that hitting nothing hurts less than hitting something, at ANY speed. Maybe you wouldn't be here today if your crash had happened at 40mph.

As for safety, a bike is just not as safe as a car. Every biker I know has come off at least once (either the fault of other drivers, or black ice), but I know quite a few car drivers who have never had a prang. On top of that, there's no such thing as a safe crash on a bike... A tiny slide with no other vehicles involved could leave you dead if you hit the curb the wrong way. It's just a fact that it's not the safest way to learn, even if it would make the survivors into better road users.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

sure, speed in itself does no harm at all,, BUT the consequences of, and the inapropriate use of , can, and does hurt , injure, maim and kill people every day.. sorry if i am just stating the obvious ,,


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Thanks Roddy for using commen sence and seeing what I meant :roll: 
Spandex is a well known bike hater as shown here. He is always going on about how insurance companies insure based on risk, but no doubt he will go against this now we all prove bikers get lower car premiums as insurance companies see us as less of a risk


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## bella_beetle2.0 (Feb 9, 2010)

Dash said:


> Bladerider said:
> 
> 
> > They should be limited to 21 and over, with at least x number of years driving experience.


i know im not a biker - would never get on one, and definitly not now iv seen what can happen if close people to you get on one being denimblues gf! and feel i shouldnt really comment as i dont know what its like to be a biker
BUT just because some one is 21 or over and x number of years driving experience isnt going to make them better drivers
some one who is 20 with 2 years driving experience could be 10 times better than a 35yr old with 10 years driving experience dont you think? its sounds discriminating to say the least,just because people pass thier bike /car tests dont mean they automatically have the experience to ride/drive safely what ever thier age and how ever long they have been riding/driving a car and even the best riders/car drivers have accidents/make mistakes.

but this is just my opinion


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Bikerz said:


> Thanks Roddy for using commen sence and seeing what I meant :roll:
> Spandex is a well known bike hater as shown here.


I look forward to you searching through my posts here to back up this statement. I've never said a bad thing about bikers on here, mainly because I have a lot of respect for them on the road. Less so on forums. :wink:


Bikerz said:


> He is always going on about how insurance companies insure based on risk, but no doubt he will go against this now we all prove bikers get lower car premiums as insurance companies see us as less of a risk


Insurance companies do base their quotes on risk and bikers will make lower risk car drivers as they have a better awareness of hazards and other road users. Nothing I said up their contradicts that.

Now, if you'd managed to actually read what I wrote (perhaps I should have included pictures?) you'd realise that what I said was that bikes are more dangerous than cars (this, i'm afraid, is just a fact) and that learning on a bike before moving on to a car is not the safest way to do it, even if the end result would be a better driver. As I've come to expect from you, you're worrying about your own safety once they've passed their test, rather than the safety of the learner.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Speed doesn't kill you, it's the sudden stop that does...

You get hit by a car doing 110mph, it doesn't matter if you're travelling at a similar velocity.

Obviously there are other things like friction between a fast moving biker and the road (protective gear), objects going through you, and being crushed.

Still, I'd rather be in a car, and I think that you should be in a car before you're allowed on a motorbike.

Driving is clearly something that would never be allowed if it was invented today. "What, you want the general public to shift around over a ton of metal at 70mph? You're having a laugh". Bikes even more so "What, you want somebody to strap a motor between their legs and fire themselves off to 60 in under 3 seconds, with nothing but their balance stopping them from falling off? Yeah ok mate".


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

There does seem to be a feeling that they're trying to remove bikes from the roads. Tougher testing and training will obviously improve the quality of those that get through it but it's also a way of reducing the number of license holders.

If every car with a single occupant was instead replaced by a motorbike just think how much the traffic congestion would ease.

Basically car drivers should thank everyone on a bike for helping reduce the traffic levels.


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## denimblue225turbo (Aug 28, 2009)

I agree.....if everyone had bikes then there wouldnt be any traffic jams, less pollution and accidents would be less common (apart from the ones caused by your own misjudgement) :roll:


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

So since this is topical it's probably worth noting that tonight on my journey home white van man decided to change his mind at the last minute and throw a right turn across me on a no right turn junction from the lane on my inside.

My bIke now needs fairings, screen, can, pegs etc etc. My Schuberth helmet needs replacing and my foot and shoulder will no doubt increase in pain over the next few hours.

I guess I didn't expect the unexpected well enough. :?


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## denimblue225turbo (Aug 28, 2009)

well atleast you not dead in laid up in hospital mate but i bet your spitting feathers at the moment, i had one near off when a van driver looked straight at me and still pulled out right in front of me on a roundabout, sometimes there is just nothing you can do unfortunatly :?


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

scoTTy said:


> So since this is topical it's probably worth noting that tonight on my journey home white van man decided to change his mind at the last minute and throw a right turn across me on a no right turn junction from the lane on my inside.
> 
> My bIke now needs fairings, screen, can, pegs etc etc. My Schuberth helmet needs replacing and my foot and shoulder will no doubt increase in pain over the next few hours.
> 
> I guess I didn't expect the unexpected well enough. :?


wel i hope that he gets well done for dangerous or endangering life or something,,, torture the bastd


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Shitter budy, my mate just range me after witnessing a serious one. Car jumped lights and biker just didnt see it. Hes pcked off in ambulance. Not good. Bloody car drivers [smiley=argue.gif]


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## Bladerider (Dec 2, 2009)

bella_beetle2.0 said:


> Dash said:
> 
> 
> > Bladerider said:
> ...


I didnt write that comment, so you may want to double check things before quoting them wrongly in future !!



bella_beetle2.0 said:


> BUT just because some one is 21 or over and x number of years driving experience isnt going to make them better drivers
> some one who is 20 with 2 years driving experience could be 10 times better than a 35yr old with 10 years driving experience dont you think?


No, I dont think thats true at all. And obviously neither does anyone else whose opinion matters, otherwise the police, insurance companies, government and RoSPA would not all be trying to make more restrictions to younger less experienced drivers. All things being equal a driver at 20 simply is not as good as a driver who is 30. Its true in F1, Its true in real life, so that means its true on the internetz as well !! :roll: 

I also dont agre with Mr Spandex either (but nothings new there  ) and his learn to drive a car first ethos. In pretty much all walks of life its better to learn things well that give you more information, rather than getting sent down a cul-de-sac of wrongness and bad habits. Driving a car first because its a big metal box is not the best way to do it except for the "survivability argument", if all chefs learned under Marco Pierre White then we'd have Gordon Ramseys etc at every pub in england and we'd all be better for it and never get stuck with a stodgy yorkshire pud or a rough bit of overcooked meat !! But they dont which is why its often not as nice an experience as you hoped for when you go to a new restaurant !! The same is true of driving, which is the point we were making - if everyone was compuslorily forced to ride a bike for a year before getting in a car then all the car drivers would already be bikers first and as such the standards would be far higher and the risk to bikers diminished tenfold. Then there would be no more "survivability argument" as the accident rate would be lower and we'd all have a much better quality of motorised life. Q.E.D !!

 

edited to add:

Unlucky Scotty, hope you arent too badly stiff etc come tomorrow and the week. Good luck.

J.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Bladerider said:


> if everyone was compuslorily forced to ride a bike for a year before getting in a car then all the car drivers would already be bikers first and as such the standards would be far higher and the risk to bikers diminished tenfold. Then there would be no more "survivability argument" as the accident rate would be lower and we'd all have a much better quality of motorised life. Q.E.D !!


You make a massive (and wildly inaccurate) assumption as to why bikers make better drivers. Most bikers who do it for any length of time do it because they love it. They take it seriously. They are likely to be interested in doing it well. If your plan ever became a reality, the roads would be full of morons on bikes, pottering around and generally trying to get themselves killed... They'd do their time on a bike whilst hating every minute of it. They wouldn't suddenly be good drivers at the end and they certainly wouldn't have any time or consideration for everyone else on a bike once they got their car license (Just the same as the drivers who sit 3mm from learner drivers bumpers, beep at them to hurry up at junctions and generally harass them into making even more mistakes, even though they were in the same situation too once, many years ago).

Most people out there have absolutely no empathy for other road users and sticking them on a bike against their will for 2 years won't suddenly turn them into nice human beings.


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

I think if you got on a bike Spandex and had someone try and mow you down you might change your opion that car drivers just dont look and sitting them on one might make them think twice. Ok Im making a huge assumption here, but I dont see you telling me you have a bike licence for 1 second, I wonder why :roll:


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Bikerz said:


> I think if you got on a bike Spandex and had someone try and mow you down you might change your opion that car drivers just dont look and sitting them on one might make them think twice. Ok Im making a huge assumption here, but I dont see you telling me you have a bike licence for 1 second, I wonder why :roll:


I honestly have no idea why you think that, as I've said nothing but good things about bikers in all my posts on this thread.

Driving for 20 years will only make you a better driver if you are actually actively interested in being a better driver (the fact that there are bad drivers at all levels of experience pretty much proves this). The same goes for riding a bike. Just going through the motions and being scared of being mowed down by a car all the time won't automatically make you better. It will just make you want to get it over with (probably by just not using your bike much during your compulsory motorbike years).


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Agree with that last post 100% but before saying that people wont nessasary be better becuase they have been on a bike is not very true, If I stuck you on abike for 30 min im sure you would be that little bit more carful at junctions in the future (ok maybe not you as your an enthusist, but your average BMW driver :wink: ) would hopfuly look 2wice next time at a junction.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Not so sure... you might for a few weeks, but most people would probably soon forget. Especially if they hadn't actually had a close call.

Make people ride a motorbike first would be a good way of keeping the roads clear, as I think a lot of people (myself included) are just plain too scared to even try.


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## Bladerider (Dec 2, 2009)

Sorry Spandex,

You have no idea. I agree that some will hate it and not want to do it and avaoid it where possible. BUT I think that after such a long time of it being your only mode of independent transport most will HAVE to try it and give it a go and it will have an indellable imprint on them forever - I know I am an enthusiast for biking and driving and hence learn the lessons more than someone who is not interested. But its a bit like people who are chucked into wars, earthquakes, other extreme events - they dont want it, they certainly wouldn't choose it for themselves, but being in it with others gives them a cameraderie that lasts for the rest of their lives, and they certainly wouldn't just ignore it.

Being a bike rider on the road really is that combative and life changing, a cyclist doesnt get the same sense of speed and the same kind of ignorance, as they are often "looked after" by motorists in a way a motrbike rider isnt.

J.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Bladerider said:


> I agree that some will hate it and not want to do it and avaoid it where possible. BUT I think that after such a long time of it being your only mode of independent transport most will HAVE to try it and give it a go


They will get their mandatory bike license at 17 when most of them have no funds to buy a bike (they'd be scrounging their parents car if it was a car license). They'll sit on the license for 2 years or however long it is, by which time they'll have some money to buy a car. They'll want a car because they'll want to pick all their mates up to go anywhere (let's face it, it's already easier for a 17 year old to get on two wheels, yet most of them don't). The only advantage to that system is there won't be any 17 year olds on the road.

Anyway, this is a car forum... Aren't you all supposed to be sitting here complaining about the nanny state telling you how to do things? I guess it's easier to advocate something when you know it won't affect you directly... Is this like non-smokers encouraging the smoking ban?


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Someone riding a bike past you doesn't give you lung cancer though so it's not quite the same. :?


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

wallsendmag said:


> Someone riding a bike past you doesn't give you lung cancer though so it's not quite the same. :?


The analogy would be that forcing people to ride bikes for X years makes the roads safer and forcing people to stop smoking in public makes those places safer. My point was that it's very easy to justify handing over more control of our lives to the government (in both cases) when the ban or law doesn't directly affect us.


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## Bladerider (Dec 2, 2009)

I look at it differently,

My not smoking doesnt make you smell different to how you walked into the venue
My not smoking doesnt have a good chance of giving you alife threatening disease
My not smoking doesnt force you to choose between going to the pub or not having sore eyes the next day
My not smoking doesnt impact your life in any way, so why should your habit be acceptable given the huge impact it has on me ??

Me suggesting that a simple way to make roads safer by forcing people to ride a bike before a car has no similarities. And saying that the kids are just going to get a bike licence and then sit on it assumes that they are given away like candy. If the bike licence was at least as difficult or possibly even longer and harder than the current one is then they would not be able to simply take a test and be done with it for two years.

Even taking the direct access route that is available today as the quickest way to a licence is better training and experience than not doing it at all, and I think that whilst there is an easy option for 17 year olds of bumming the car off mum and dad they would be insane to want to use a bike in prefeerence, for many of the reaons you state. However if it was their ONLY option for 2 years and they HAD to have a bike licence before being able to even apply for a car one then that would be a massively different proposition.

You seem to want to argue the case just for the sake of arguing, whilst not actually knowing what its like to ride a bike. Yet everyone else who rides a bike thinks something along these lines is a good positive idea, and even alarge percentage of car drivers think it might actually prove to be a good thing.

Maybe you should stop arguing and perhaps try a bike out and take a direct access course yourself if only to have a valid perspective on the subject !!


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

And before you say you will kill your self, "the throttle goes both ways" as I was always told, and then learnt to reply " Only 1 way is fun tho" :lol:

Just for info the law has now been passed (at long last took ages) As of 2013 the test will be multi staged and means you will only progress very slowly meaning its will take about 9 years to get a "full power" bike. Mates dad is a insructor and has just started his training to teach this course.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Bladerider said:


> I look at it differently,
> 
> My not smoking doesnt make you smell different to how you walked into the venue
> My not smoking doesnt have a good chance of giving you alife threatening disease
> ...


I'll leave this to the smokers on here to discuss. My point was that I imagine you'd be up in arms if the government implemented some road 'safety' measures that restricted your enjoyment of biking, but you're fine with them doing something that wouldn't affect you in any way. To hell with the people it does affect, hey?



Bladerider said:


> Maybe you should stop arguing and perhaps try a bike out and take a direct access course yourself if only to have a valid perspective on the subject !!


Just to be clear, are you saying that being a biker will give me a better perspective on what people would do when faced with legislation that prevents them from driving a car for the first two years of having a license? Is that covered in the CBT or do I have to do the whole thing? :roll:


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Spandex said:


> Bladerider said:
> 
> 
> > I look at it differently,
> ...


Get a life Spandex! Clearly you have to ride a bike for a time weather it be a 50cc scooter or a full blown jap sports bike, car drivers will treat you pretty much teh same (probally worse if your on a scooter), your inteligent enough to realise this, you just want to be picky as usual :roll:


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## Bladerider (Dec 2, 2009)

Spandex said:


> Bladerider said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe you should stop arguing and perhaps try a bike out and take a direct access course yourself if only to have a valid perspective on the subject !!
> ...


Just to be clear....

I think you are an incredibly narrow minded bell end that seems to want to bury his head in the sand :lol: purely to continue an argument that you

A: Dont really have a full perspective on as you have not ridden a bike for any period on the roads and therefore have not experienced the things I am talking about

and B: Want to turn into some form of discussion about governmental regulation and 100 other things you can think of purely to muddy the waters and take the focus off the fact that pretty much no one here or in the real world agree with you.

Ive said all i need to, the vast majority of people if asked would agree with me, it is a simple fact that riding a bike improves awareness and roadcraft, and while I have said i agree that bikers can be their own worst enemy while riding a bike that still does not mean that there is nothing positive to be gained by the concept of forcing drivers to ride first.

Thats it, end of argument from me, you can now carry on, have the last word, discuss how red tape made churchill turn in his grave and is like the immigrants coming here to steal our babies and burn witches, or whatever nonsense you want to talk about.

Have a good'un !!

  

J.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

dear , dear, do we have to get all agressive and insulting ,, :roll: :roll: :roll: 
forcing people to learn to drive on a bike before allowing them into a car is a dreadful idea ,,   
first , driving a bike and driving a car are entirelly different diciplines,, the only similaritie is the "road craft ",, 
second, it may reduce the amount of car accidents , that is because half of the learners would be DEAD ..    
i cant see why driving, bike or car, should be any different from any other walk of life,, or industry,,, it is a simple concept, "" learn in the safest possible environment !!!""
learning that you cannot run into lorries at 40 mph, on a bike, is a fairly short sited approach


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

roddy said:


> learning that you cannot run into lorries at 40 mph, on a bike, is a fairly short sited approach


Pretty short sighted in a car too :roll: :lol:


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Bikerz said:


> roddy said:
> 
> 
> > learning that you cannot run into lorries at 40 mph, on a bike, is a fairly short sited approach
> ...


well i have done it,, in a car,, and lived to learn the lesson ..   
( the amount of accidents i have had,, another few and i should be damn near perfect !!!     )


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Bladerider said:


> I think you are an incredibly narrow minded bell end


Thanks!


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Perhaps we should put it to the vote.

* STFU
* Ban all bikes, they are clearly death traps
* Ban all cars, they are clearly out to cause trouble


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