# Is anyone into high resolution audio?



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

I love my music. Through thick and thin music has been a big part of my life.

I have an iTunes collection that can play 24/7 for 84 days before repeating a track.

For the past 2 years I've been investigating hi-res music. This is better than CD quality and often studio recordings made available for downloading. Websites like Pono and HD Tracks facilitate this and trust me, if you have a good hifi and good hearing you will appreciate the difference.

So I want to bring this into my lounge and off the computer. I have made my own DVD-a discs to play on a specialist player and they sound fantastic. Now I have bought a Pioneer N-70A network player for near enough a grand. I'm using it right now and the sound is good. Not exceptional but totally acceptable in day-to-day life.

But I'm looking for awesome, hair tingling, fabulous sound that will crank up to crazy volumes and deliver studio clarity.

I have just auditioned a Linn system based on a network player that costs £17500. It sounds fabulous. But £17500?

Can anyone recommend something that will play ALAC files from a Synology NAS at high resolution and sound better than my aging Audiolab 8000S and Acoustic Energy speakers?

Ta.


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## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

Hi rich.
Can't answer the questions in your last paragraph I'm afraid, but thought I'd chip in on the subject - initially from an in-car perspective.

I'm very much interested in high res audio, and was actually fitting the equipment into my car late last year (Audison Bit Play HD). In the end a combination of things meant I sold the device, first of all I didn't get on with the software (iPhone app) and secondly the lack of available music (that I want to listen to).
I do still have a full digital signal path in my car though, and the ability to PLAY high res files. Just that they are downsampled (to 44.1kHz 16bit) during the AirPlay streaming (wireless).
Going back to your OP, you mention "studio clarity". Studios use "flat response" monitor speakers, in rooms which have been acoustically treated. So those speakers don't "flatter" the sound in any frequency, unlike many consumer and "hifi" or "audiophile" speakers.
I only know about those type of speakers, ones which give an "honest" reproduction of the sound as it was in the studio it was made/mastered. The high end audiophile stuff isn't my bag, and there probably is a lot of very expensive gear that isn't really worth the cost. They do look cool sometimes though, more akin to what people like having in their lounges. Studio speakers are a bit more function over form, but beauty IS in the eye of the beholder! I'm a fan of Adam Audio, perhaps check out their gear if studio speakers appeal to you. Specifically the A77X ;-)








http://www.adam-audio.com/en/pro-audio/ ... escription

But you'll see, they also do home audio gear ;-)








http://www.adam-audio.com/en/home-audio/products

As for high res audio availability, unbelievably - the area of music which is supposed to be modern/electronic/techno/etc are just as slow as the rest of the industry in coming up with the goods!


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Perhaps you need vinyl Rich? - if you can put up with the scratches, dust, wow and flutter, rumble, acoustic feedback and of course any compression, (hopefully not studio digital manipulation etc) but underneath it all is the analogue of the original air vibrations.

There is such a lot of rubbish talked about audio, with an almost religious zeal with the snobbery of emperor's new clothes and industry sponsored reviews lapped up by the converted believing they can hear the gold plating they've just splashed out on for special 13A mains plugs but the truth is revealed by an AB comparison with minimal time delay.

I always remember a friend synching up a vinyl record with a CD and switching every few second instantly between CD and vinyl source. At first the CD sounded clearer but the cymbals sounded like sandpaper on a tin can and you could hear the metal percussive sound on vinyl and everybody said it sounded better to listen to.

The problem in scientific terms (and you rarely hear this) is that CD is recorded at about a 40 kHz sample rate which Nyquist criteria dictates a maximum 20kHz recovery - but that's for a continuous waveform, so doesn't recover the lower frequency envelope of attack accurately which results in distortion. Think about a 40kHz sample rate sampling on the zero crossing points of a 20kHz sine waveform and the zero DC result and you can see what I mean. Ok older ears don't hear 20kHz but 10kHz would only reproduce as a triangular 10kHz at best and depending on the phase could result in anywhere between a half amplitude10kHz square wave with intermodulation components stretching down into the lower audio band and a full amplitude triangular 10 kHz fundamental, and if the two were slightly out of sync then you'd get lower component beat frequencies. You can see why a standard CD is flawed and why analogue is better - except for other defects like scratches etc.

If you go to 200 kHz sample rate you make big inroads into recovering the envelopes of percussion. Ultimately an infinite sample rate is as good as analogue without the defects.

Just make sure you have decent speakers otherwise it's all pointless :wink:


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

Bowers & Wilkins Zeppelin, and other speakers, will play FLAC files via Airplay. This works with any IOS device or my PC using iTunes or with other specialist audio software on my PC using a USB link to the speaker.
All of these devices should be able to access music on a NAS and play it to the speaker.
Don't know if that gives you any ideas.


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## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

John-H said:


> Ok older ears don't hear 20kHz but 10kHz would only reproduce as a triangular 10kHz at best and depending on the phase could result in anywhere between a half amplitude10kHz square wave with intermodulation components stretching down into the lower audio band and a full amplitude triangular 10 kHz fundamental, and if the two were slightly out of sync then you'd get lower component beat frequencies


I think the modern vernacular for that sentence is "epic" (8

I might get that printed on a shirt, thanks


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

John-H said:


> Perhaps you need vinyl Rich?


Oh I don't think so John, I've done all that.

What I'm looking to do is minimise the 'boxes' in my lounge but get access to all my audio files stored on the NAS. That's the beauty of the Linn system I auditioned. It sounds fantastic but it is also hugely expensive.

http://www.linn.co.uk/systems/see-the-range/klimax


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

mullum said:


> Hi rich.
> Can't answer the questions in your last paragraph I'm afraid, but thought I'd chip in on the subject - initially from an in-car perspective.
> 
> I'm very much interested in high res audio...


Yeah but it's a bit 'hobbyist' at the moment. The Pioneer N-70A I bought got rave reviews but even they can't provide a useable App to control it. Plus the manual is missing so much information about how to actually use it!

The Arcam App I'm now using to control it is much better but I'm only now discovering that the N-70 cannot play ALAC files above 96KHz. God knows why, it'll do higher resolution FLACs but I can't keep changing formats to suit individual bits of equipment.

I just wish Apple would get their act together to support hi-res. Even their new Music service is incapable of delivering what any music fan really wants more than anything - top quality sound.


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## nilanth (Mar 30, 2007)

Are you looking for speakers?
What is your budget?

I've just discovered 24bit and 16bit FLAC music.

Wow, what a difference!


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## cheechy (Nov 8, 2006)

I've invested in a bluesound node to connect to my current system. They do a version with a built in amp and all you need to do is connect speakers.

Not going to touch the linn system of course (I have a mate with one of these and nothing IMO will) but it will play just about anything you chuck at it and integration with Deezer and Spotify is pretty good also, although not proper hi-res.

The node's DAC isn't too shabby at all and connected to the right gear will sound as good as a anything below 2k. Worth an audition or consideration.

The other bonus for me is that the Mark 3 plays FLAC direct . I needed to buy 3 128GB USB / XD cards though!


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Oh my god.

Tidal.

Just do it.

Fabulous.

http://tidal.com/gb


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## cheechy (Nov 8, 2006)

rustyintegrale said:


> Oh my god.
> 
> Tidal.
> 
> ...


If your willing to pay the premium then good luck.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

cheechy said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> > Oh my god.
> ...


I'm doing the free trial. Apart from some missing music I wanted it's good. Sound quality is also good. Not brilliant but I can't find out details about the output. Sounds on a par with my CDs. Not what I wanted but the convenience is fabulous.


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## bluush (Feb 24, 2010)

Always thought that by the time you were affluent enough, with sufficient disposable income to buy all the really good gear then you were too old and your hearing has deteriorated so much that it makes little sense buying it cos you can't hear the differences.

When I was around 17 my hearing range went up to about 19-20 kHz, now aged 50 the top end I can hear is about 12khz.

Too much of the high end audio stuff is just snobbery, name dropping. Some of the differences could be proved in a lab with test equipment, but not in a blind test using mk1 human ears.

Just my 2p


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Certainly there is a lot of "emperor's new clothes" talked over the subject of Hi-Fi. I once went into get some £1,500 price tag phono leads demonstrated that go between CD player and amplifier - for a laugh. They were in a security case in the shop window display.

They sat me down in their demonstration room with some coffee and connected some cheap £3.00 leads to the CD as I requested and asked me what music I'd like to hear. I chose some classical. It was quite an impressive sound from their top of the range setup. Then they turned down the volume and swapped the leads, taking them reverentially out of the locked metal case, then turned up the volume again.

Can you tell the difference they asked?

I said the music is different now because of the time it took to swap the leads - that's the only difference I can hear, I said.

You have to train your ears to hear the subtle difference they said - (emperor's new clothes in other words!).

Later to prove it to a friend (who was convinced he could see the emperor's new clothes!) I made a test box with a high quality differential op-amp measuring the difference between a CD input and the same signal going out via a phono test lead which I could swap and back into the box. If there was a difference in the direct and diverted signal the differential amplifier would amplify it and pass it to the output and into my amplifier/loudspeakers. If the signals were the same the signals would cancel and there would be zero output. There was complete silence both with the standard cheap £3.00 leads and his leads which cost him £30. No difference - and were using real ears to judge.

It was only when I made a 10 metre long cheap test lead could you then start to hear a tiny bit of high frequency difference (the difference being that lost in the capacitive loading of the 10 metre lead) but only with the volume turned high - a volume normally deafening.

At normal listening volume going simply through the one set of leads or the other, instantly switching between them with a changeover switch, he couldn't tell me whether the signal was going through his expensive or the 10 metre lead.

He refused to believe what I was demonstrating to him though and suggested my switches were filtering out the extra quality he was convinced he could otherwise hear at home. I left him to his religiosity.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

There is so much FUD in the audio industry, it puts me right off. So many double-blind and A/B tests showing that people cannot hear the difference between different formats where all else is equal etc.

On the flip side, I finally got round to putting some floorstanders into my new lounge (yay for finally moving to a detached house) and balanced up all the speakers as best I could etc. The difference was night and day. My wife still can't tell the difference between that and her the crappy built-in speakers in the TV on the wall in the bedroom.

I had a Onkyo receiver that packed up and was replaced FOC with a newer, but step down model. No longer THX certified etc etc. but the MultiEQ stuff in it for speaker setup was a generation or two on, and boy that did such a better job it was a massively better experience on cheaper newer tech.

Have you ever tried RoomEQ Wizard? It's a great tool you can link up to a SPF metre and check for room modes etc., I rapidly realised there was no point in spending any more money on equipment until I've sorted out the acoustics in my room.


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## steve_collier21 (Apr 13, 2011)

rustyintegrale said:


> ...I have just auditioned a Linn system based on a network player that costs £17500. It sounds fabulous. But £17500?
> 
> Can anyone recommend something that will play ALAC files from a Synology NAS at high resolution and sound better than my aging Audiolab 8000S and Acoustic Energy speakers?
> 
> Ta.


 Hi, I have been a Linn user for a long time (80s) but never did leap on their DS bandwagon because of a) sticker shock and b) I had already evolved a satisfactory solution before they began to catch up. Everything was ripped to a Synology NAS in FLAC format with Mediamonkey. I have moved the collection to a larger ReadyNAS but the principle is the same. I used to use Squeezebox when it was an independent company. These days I play with a selection of Sonos devices. The interface is great if you have ipads and iphones in the house. The sound is good, plays FLAC and I believe ALAC too up to a cetain res. You'd have to check but IIRC 192k. Bonus is that the new Mk3 TT will play FLAC files from an SD card


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## leopard (May 1, 2015)

https://www.meridian-audio.com

Check these guys out, best in the business for lossless digital audio.

Interesting comments about cables and audio to which I shall reserve comment,suffice to say there's more to an audio cable that meets the eye.Capacitance,inductance,to a lesser degree resistance and reactance all play a major role in ascertaining a cables "sound".

The aforementioned parameters play a part on the amplifier's Zobel network architecture and also on a speaker's series and parallel resistances.

The cable is and can be a potential game changer in high end audio.


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