# So, if the RS4 has to go....



## clived (May 6, 2002)

...what next?

Due to the mileage restrictions placed on personal cars (part!)funded by our company car allowance, I'm going to have to retire the RS4 soon. I really don't want to - it's running great and in great condition, but when I bought it, I knew this day would come due to the car policy 

I've got a few things on my "sensible car" shortlist (the TT is really meant to be my "fun" car) and I'd be interested in the views of anyone who has considered any of these cars and bought one of them over another - what drove your decision?

Audi TT-S (can I really have 2 TTs?  )
Audi S5
Audi A5 3.0Tdi
BMW 335i M Sport
BMW 335d M Sport
BMW X3 3.0sd (something of a wildcard!)

...or is there anything obvious I'm missing?

Cheers, Clive


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

Nearly new A8 4.2 TDI sensible/quickish loads of toys ...i quite like this idea myself


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

A lower mileage RS4 and swap all of your mods


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

I've opt'd out of the company car scheme and although most people i work with go and get the BMW 330d or 335d or mercs 320 I went with the TT. Its my car, i dont want a boring corporate BMW and I'm happy to be different.

I've just ordered another one (last week) so the MKII V6 is going and I'm now getting the TTS in its place.

A5 30TDI would be nice as is the S5. Main reason i didn't get the S5 was due to its size. But for 45k (with Nav+ and a few other options) its a lot of car for the money and the looks are growing on me.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

clived said:


> ...what next?
> 
> Due to the mileage restrictions placed on personal cars (part!)funded by our company car allowance, I'm going to have to retire the RS4 soon. I really don't want to - it's running great and in great condition, but when I bought it, I knew this day would come due to the car policy
> 
> ...


The B7 RS4, you know it makes sense. I'd take the 335d over the A5 if you're going for a smoker.


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## J55TTC (Apr 25, 2005)

YELLOW_TT said:


> A lower mileage RS4 and swap all of your mods


This sounds like the best option to me


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

A8 too big - I love 'em, but I need to be able to park it more easily in more places than an A8 allows.

"swapping all the mods" to a newer RS4 would be quite a task, and mean owning both at the same time - it's got a big stereo install, car kit, suspension, brakes, exhaust, B2 hardwire.... and to be honest, owning the "same" car twice in row doesn't feel right  B7 RS4 - great car, but only half the "special" factor of the B5 (IMHO), so not for me.

....which is kind of the problem with buying a 2nd TT - I think owning two of them at the same time seems odd 

Is a 335d or 335i M coupe _really_ a boring corporate BMW? Tosh, do your colleagues tend to have the SEs or the sports, coupes or saloons?


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## sandhua1978 (Sep 11, 2006)

335d,

Great performance with the added benefit of doing 30mpg and not falling into the old band G road tax bracket. So achieves the objective of not experiencing a huge drop in performance and should be company tax compliant.

know a few people that have made the switch from the rs4 to a 335d and they were quite surprised by the response. With more torque than an m3 8) its certainly no slouch.

I think there is a new engine coming out in march with 10 extra bhp on top of the 286bhp it already has means it should be even better!

Its also feels quicker than the stated 0-60 times but midrange punch is where the real fun is at! :twisted:

IMHO Looks great in Coupe format with 19" wheels.

x3 - don't do it..... Never liked them personally. Coming from an RS4 it would be 6 months and you would be looking to change it.

S5 seems okay but not really a fan of the LED's and the space in the back is quite limited for a car that so big.

Audi TTs - sounds good on paper, but would be interested to drive it before i'd buy one as not sure how the power delivery would feel. Essentially its the same engine as the s3 and a few have complained about the lag on the turbo.

So guess it comes down how you like a power delivery in your cars! But sounds like you got some fun over the next few weeks test driving!

Good luck with the decision making.


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## Hilly10 (Feb 4, 2004)

Go for the A5 Clive. Mine comes March, be a bit different every man and his dog drives a Beamer. I have not seen many A5s on the road. Bit exclusive and a much better interior then the BMW :wink:


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## blagman (Sep 11, 2006)

A5 3.0 TDI Sport much nicer than ten a penny 3 series beemer :lol:

This one has been lowered and re maped to 295 bhp and 580 nm of torque

still does 35 mpg on a high speed run.


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## Hilly10 (Feb 4, 2004)

blagman said:


> A5 3.0 TDI Sport much nicer than ten a penny 3 series beemer :lol:
> 
> This one has been lowered and re maped to 295 bhp and 560 nm of torque
> 
> still does 35 mpg on a high speed run.


I an having the 2.7 allready sorted the remap 235 bhp not sure on the torque figure. Totally agree on the 3 series comment :wink:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Not driven an A5, but most report concur that 3 series drives better and has better derv engines across the range. Simple trade off: nicer interior on Audi vs aforementioned qualities of BMs.

3 series coupe or saloon/touring?

3 is up for a facelift, gaining the M3 front lights, grill treatment and rear end tweaks for 2009 model year.

Unless you are heel bent on spending Â£40K, the 325d M sport makes most co car tax sense. DMS Remap to 278hp for that little extra urge..

323d will be the tax beater.

However they are all good cars on your list - just a matter of choice vs tax liability.


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## sandhua1978 (Sep 11, 2006)

Can't argue about the interiors.

But you get 286bhp and 580nm torque as standard.

Remapped you can get 340ish and prob about 700nm of torque!

Drive one and you'll know why i personally love them.


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## jbell (May 15, 2006)

Audi TT-S (can I really have 2 TTs? ) *Yes of course you can*
Audi S5 *Yummy*
Audi A5 3.0Tdi *Yummy when remapped*
BMW 335i M Sport *Drug dealers car*
BMW 335d M Sport *Drug dealers car*
BMW X3 3.0sd (something of a wildcard!) *Are you mad  *


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## zedman (Jan 31, 2005)

garyc said:


> 3 is up for a facelift, gaining the M3 front lights, grill treatment and rear end tweaks for 2009 model year.


given that the coupe already has the m3 lights, you must be talking about the saloon/touring? are you sure about this facelift cos i asked over on e90post.com and a few people reckoned the facelift would be this mid 2008 and not feat M3 front end?


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

zedman said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > 3 is up for a facelift, gaining the M3 front lights, grill treatment and rear end tweaks for 2009 model year.
> ...


I was talking about the saloon and touring.

It is conjecture. Not 100% sure, although my mate is sales manager of BMW UK, and i read a few journo articles alluding to same. This is a response to the new A4 and C class. My point was that i would want to be sure about any facelift model before buyin ga current one.

E46 got new front wings, grill, front light shapes and i think bonnet in mid life facelift. Dont see why e90 would be the same.

2008 M3 saloon already has coupe-style lights and grill:


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## jam (May 8, 2002)

jbell said:


> BMW 335i M Sport *Drug dealers car*
> BMW 335d M Sport *Drug dealers car*


Although I know what you're saying about the image of them - I've never met a drug dealer in my life that drives something that flash! :twisted: :wink:


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Gary - I'm all opted out, so tax liability not a worry....

So, quite a lot of love (and hate) for the 335d, not a lot said about th 335i

Lots of love for the A5 3.0Tdi, not a lot said about the S5.... interesting 

And you're all right, I shouldn't get an X3.

Wonder how an M3 stacks up vs 335i or depreciation - who reckons the cost over 3 years would be similar?


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

clived said:


> Wonder how an M3 stacks up vs 335i or depreciation - who reckons the cost over 3 years would be similar?


Nah no competition, M cars have pretty hefty running costs in comparison don't they, and Â£10k off list for a dealer launch car is possible.

A5 3.0TDi for me 

Or what about a nice Merc ML320CDi seeing as you thought about the X3?


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Oooooh, I remember what I fancied - 135i M sport coupe.... :twisted:


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## sandhua1978 (Sep 11, 2006)

Cheers JBELL!

FYI - I don't do drugs! 

135i was another one i thought about on the way home. As i saw one on my walk to the station a bit funny looking but sounded :twisted: nice!


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

I like the 1 coupe.

Can I have first refusal on the RS4 please ?


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

R6B TT said:


> I like the 1 coupe.
> 
> Can I have first refusal on the RS4 please ?


Yeah, me too 

Rob, afraid you're 3rd in line, but I'll put you on the list (if you're serious).


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## thebears (Jan 14, 2006)

I'd go for the S5 or A5 if it was me. If your going down the BMW route then make it the new M3.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

clived said:


> Oooooh, I remember what I fancied - 135i M sport coupe.... :twisted:


What about Alpina B3? I could live without the stripes and wheel designs, but by all acounts it is a belter in both the Go and handling stakes. Very strong residuals too.

http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-2007-Alpina-B3-Bi-Turbo-based-on-BMW-335i.htm


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Hmmm.... not really a car I'd want to put 60k on in 3 years - that must dent the resale


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## SBJ (Jun 29, 2002)

Hi Clive,

Would recommend the A5 if running costs come into the equation, otherwise the S5 is more the beast. I know there's more to the S model than just the badge, but the real world performance figures of the two cars are very similar. Think th S is 5.2 v's 5.9 to 60, and like others have said, you could always chip the TDI.

Shame I didn't spend more time showing you my car, got distracted by that R8 last night!

If you have any questions or what my view/experience on the A5, let me know.

Simon


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

Opinions, opinions, ahh well, they keep the forum ticking over so here's my two penneth.

Didnt have you down as a 'soft cruiser' kind of guy Clive so not sure an A5/S5 would be right for you would it? A5 3.0Tdi would be nice for hoofing up and down motorways but not for any twisties. In fact I dont understand the point of the S5. The 3.0Tdi does motorways better and neither does twisties that well so you may as well get the diesel.

Hooligans car would be a 135i M Sport (surely an M1 in all but name) or the M3 and probably (?) more suited to you? Convertible 1 is out soon isnt it although whether the 135 incarnation is a launch model I dont know??

TBH though if I could get a 2 seater I would be seriously tempted to go for a Z4M Coupe. I cant help but love the look of the things although I have to admit I have never driven one.

Why not just go with what you know and get a newish RS4 Estate?

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/ww ... rch.action










PS. Considered a nice black TTC 3.2 at all? Just ripe for a turbo kit. ;-)


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Don't forget I already have a 2 seat soft-top, so another one would be a little much ;-)

You're right though Rich, I don't want something soft, and having driven the S5, and by extension the A5 must be more so, they aren't quite the "ultimate driving machine" :wink: I'm looking for.

The 135i is different, BMW only expect to sell a few hundred a year in the UK and I reckon it'll be fun. And at some point, someone will crack the ECU encryption :evil: M3 - awesome car, but I don't think I need one, or want one. At the moment  Maybe when I'm not doing 20k a year and don't have to worry about max depreciation!


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## jonno (May 7, 2002)

blagman said:


> This one has been lowered and re maped to 295 bhp and 580 nm of torque


ot
Sounds like a very impressive map to hit nearly 100bhp/litre.
Presumably out of the box the A5 3.0 is in a pretty mild state of tune?
/ot

Clive,
M3 Coupe
335d Coupe + remap
Looks a straightforward decision to me :wink:


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

clived said:


> Don't forget I already have a 2 seat soft-top, so another one would be a little much ;-)
> 
> You're right though Rich, I don't want something soft, and having driven the S5, and by extension the A5 must be more so, they aren't quite the "ultimate driving machine" :wink: I'm looking for.
> 
> The 135i is different, BMW only expect to sell a few hundred a year in the UK and I reckon it'll be fun. And at some point, someone will crack the ECU encryption :evil: M3 - awesome car, but I don't think I need one, or want one. At the moment  Maybe when I'm not doing 20k a year and don't have to worry about max depreciation!


I think you are absolutely right m8, 135i M Sport Coupe will be a cracking car. If I wasnt going for the M3 I would have had one in a shot.

Of course, you know what colour it has to be dont you.........


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

335d..... having done the 535d for a year when they first came out, I know it's a great engine, but I think I need petrol.

M3 - with 20k a year, I'm not sure I want the depreciation - at least with the 135i costing somewhat less, my total exposure is less. If we move closer to work at some point in the future this wouldn't be such an issue....

It sounds like I've made my mind up as I seem prepared to argue any non-135i M Coupe position away


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Leg said:


> Of course, you know what colour it has to be dont you.........











:wink:


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Black and White ,why has it taken everyone so long to see things my way


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

clived said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> > Of course, you know what colour it has to be dont you.........
> ...


Right, glad that is settled. Look forward to seeing the pics.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

clived said:


> 335d..... having done the 535d for a year when they first came out, I know it's a great engine, but I think I need petrol.
> 
> M3 - with 20k a year, I'm not sure I want the depreciation - at least with the 135i costing somewhat less, my total exposure is less. If we move closer to work at some point in the future this wouldn't be such an issue....
> 
> It sounds like I've made my mind up as I seem prepared to argue any non-135i M Coupe position away


why would you take a 135i over a 335i? 45kg weight saving?


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

1) Exclusivity
2) Not having to worry about chosing between 335i / 335d / M3 if I decide I want a 3 series coupe
3) ~Â£10k (given you really need to spec a 335i with auto box)
4) I don't need the space, so why not take the weight saving (I reckon it's 85kg, against an auto 335i)


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Fair enough.

You should consider future residuals. Me thinks that a 135i auto sport, may not hold value as well as a 335i.

There is no choice wit hthe 335d, but i would still go 6 speed manual with the x35i.

pm me if you would like me to put a call in to my mate for a deal on a 135i.


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

There isn't a 135i M Sport auto, so that's one, very good, less decision to make 

I'll be in touch Gary


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

I dont believe that for a second. No way.


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Leg said:


> I dont believe that for a second. No way.


Don't believe what Leggy?


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

clived said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> > I dont believe that for a second. No way.
> ...





garyc said:


> pm me if you would like me to put a call in to my mate for a deal on a 135i.


Gary has a mate, who does he think he is kidding?


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

I think the 135i looks fantastic but I was surprised by all the negative feedback on the Forum recently. It seems people are quite divided by the looks (as they seem to be with the A5/S5). IMO, both cars have that elusive rarity factor and the fact that many don't like them is a positive for me. But how that would impact depreciation is something I'd be a bit concerned about.

Have to admit I never really thought that much about depreciation until I saw what happened to the Z4M Coupe - a car I nearly bought new last year. Am glad I didn't, as it seems I came close to losing a fortune in a very short space of time. I know nobody buys a car to make money, but you obviously want to minimise the potential downside.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Clive - it certainly seems like discounts are around :

http://www.tyresmoke.net/ubbthreads/sho ... &fpart=all


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Leg said:


> clived said:
> 
> 
> > Leg said:
> ...


Me, Myself and I. :-*

Now watch it or i may just storm off in a huff, before sneaking back in quietly later. :lol:


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

garyc said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> > clived said:
> ...


If you have a huff I wont believe you till I see a photo of you stood next to it, the V5 and the purchase receipt.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Leg said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > Leg said:
> ...


That may put my family at risk.


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Just to get back on track.... :wink: I woke up this morning liking the 335i again :roll:


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## jbell (May 15, 2006)

garyc said:


> clived said:
> 
> 
> > Oooooh, I remember what I fancied - 135i M sport coupe.... :twisted:
> ...


I think Gary has a good choice there, the Alpina are so much more individual than the run of the mill 3 series, just without the stripes, IIRC they also do Diesel conversions now.

If you want some oooooomph then a Merc CLK 500/55 AMG can be had for good money, they also do a CLK 320 CDi Sport which is very rapid.


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## Neil (May 7, 2002)

clived said:


> Just to get back on track.... :wink: I woke up this morning liking the 335i again :roll:


Very nice. Shame you can't get the ~13-14% discounts that were very easily available in 07. Lovely drive, lots of toys, looks good (in M-Sport guise). Just a shame there's so many 3-series around (even if not 335i, but all M-Sport's pretty much look the same anyway).


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Yeah, I know Neil regarding how "popular" the 3 series is, which is what was pushing me towards the 1. Discount I'm hopeful on 

135i and 335i manual test drives booked for Saturday :twisted:


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

clived said:


> Just to get back on track.... :wink: I woke up this morning liking the 335i again :roll:


This might seem strange coming from me when I have an M3 on order but I would go for the 135i over the 335 if I were you Clive. Whilst the 335 is a great looking car something about the smaller 135 is attractive, mostly its mild leaning towards 'old skool' BMWs of old I guess.


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Totally hear you - but the small price differential makes it quite hard to justify unless the 1 is a lot more fun than the 3.

I was expecting to hear that most 335is are auto - my dealer told me they've sold a lot of manuals, which is a good sign come resale I think.


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## Neil (May 7, 2002)

clived said:


> I was expecting to hear that most 335is are auto - my dealer told me they've sold a lot of manuals,


I've seen hardly any manuals at all, if the BMW web-site and Autotrader are anything to go by. Likewise, my local dealer also said he hadn't sold 1 manual "as auto suits the car better and is a must for resale". I'm with you though, it would have to be manual, no question.


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Uh-oh :twisted:

http://www.1addicts.com/goodiesforyou/pp1b.PDF


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Test drove 335i (SE unfortunately) and 335i on Saturday. 335i really didn't do anything for me, but 135i was a lot of fun  Both sound great, but 135i is kind of a fun little go-cart combined with very reasonable cruising ability - left me absolutely smiling.

I'd have ordered one on the spot if:

1) The dealer had know anything about the BMW Performance bits - specifcially if they can be factory fitted

2) A potential job change wasn't about to see me, potentially, cross the Atlantic....

Hopefully find out about (1) and make a decision about (2) very shortly as I'm itching to get my deposit down!


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Good luck with all those decisions Clive.


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## Neil (May 7, 2002)

Are the dealers willing to "deal" on the 135i Clive? Just interested how much the reported BMW UK squeeze on big discounts has panned out in reality. I'm guessing that the 135i might take quite a bit hit on list in the 1st year or 2, so a discount would help cushion the blow somewhat.


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