# Badger5 3" TIP



## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

There is mention of these in this thread on here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=193832&hilit=badger5&start=15

And a lot of info on SCN here http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=289160

But there doesn't seem to be much momentum on here about them. The results from what I've read should surely be getting the kit some serious attention.

Hopefully one or more of our preferred tuners on here might have now seen or even logged a car with it on and can comment. But from what I can see the results speak for themselves.


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## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

Funny you should say that Fenella, as I was thinking much the same thing the other day. I thought this would surely be the next hot mod??

Charlene


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## ViperOneZero (Sep 4, 2008)

there is more of a thread on http://www.mk 1 tt . com i think


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## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

Yeah seen that on there thought it could do with gathering some speed on here


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

I think WAK and Morgan are currently tweaking a TT with it fitted, so they may be able to comment in the near future.
Steve


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## Adam-tt (Apr 3, 2010)

Should do a group buy too


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

stevecollier said:


> I think WAK and Morgan are currently tweaking a TT with it fitted, so they may be able to comment in the near future.
> Steve


Yeah, Matt is down there this weekend isnt he, being fettled


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## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

Matt B said:


> stevecollier said:
> 
> 
> > I think WAK and Morgan are currently tweaking a TT with it fitted, so they may be able to comment in the near future.
> ...


Look forward to hearing the results. Hopefully the guru will add his 2p


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2011)

You're welcome to my £0.02 in the meantime...

We need rolling road data with just the TIP changed to make a sensible comparison. Powertec state similar gains for their SL-1 induction kit which I have.

The air filter will by far and away be the most restrictive part of the intake system (i.e. lower differential pressure across the filter) with perhaps some minor contribution from a less convoluted TIP. Is that where the claimed gain is coming from? The shape doesn't look much different to OEM or Forge and this set up has four joints not two so more places to spring a leak. Furthermore, I presumed there was some heat insulating benefit to the thick silicone hosing. By replacing part of that with a metal section, surely you're negating that too? Hmm.

Doug


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## alun (Aug 2, 2010)

im a bit sceptical on this..it says on that trhead that he gained 5bhp with this tip and a jetex filter.. imho that 5bhp was due to the filter.

so to me.. i dont see the point in spending upwards of £100 on something that gains you nothing. unless of course you have a big turbo build and the standard tip is restricting flow.

but maybe someone with a before and after graph (with just the tip changed) can prove me wrong.


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## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

I would like to see results with just the tip changed with wak box and panel filter. I know it fits the oem airbox but they also recommend using the cone filter but mainly for ease of fitment.

But for anyone looking to get a silicon tip this may work out as a good alternative with potentially more gains for not much more money


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## ViperOneZero (Sep 4, 2008)

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=289160


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2011)

Had a quick flick through the first few pages of that thread.

Certainly _"Gains of up to 25 bhp bolt on on a remapped car to suit TIP have been achieved with the 3inch TIP and JR filter combination."_ is an impressive claim, backed up by dyno data. You will no way get double figures bhp gains over stock just by replacing the induction kit!

I don't have time just now to trawl the rest of it.

There has to be a benefit, however small of keeping the inlet pipe size at 3 inches and the cost is definitely less than the Forge effort (£140 ish?). Why is it that I still remain so sceptical then...? 

I'll eventually replace my TIP but, as usual, will apply all due rigour to the selection process, just as I did with the induction kit. :wink:

Doug


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## alun (Aug 2, 2010)

> Forge TIP 200.31g's of airflow
> 
> Badger 5 3" TIP 209.97g's of airflow
> 
> I call that I bit of an improvement


taken from p24 of that thread.. interesting.


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## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

alun said:


> > Forge TIP 200.31g's of airflow
> >
> > Badger 5 3" TIP 209.97g's of airflow
> >
> ...


Indeed interesting. Take a look at the logs in this post on audi-sport gone from 201g/s to 223g/s pretty impressive stuff 

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-foru ... sults.html


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

Matt B said:


> stevecollier said:
> 
> 
> > I think WAK and Morgan are currently tweaking a TT with it fitted, so they may be able to comment in the near future.
> ...


Yes, I'm down tomorrow with Wak & Morgan


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## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

TTsline02 said:


> Matt B said:
> 
> 
> > stevecollier said:
> ...


Have you done any logs of the maf just to compare to what the seat boys are getting?

I've seen the RR results you posted but keen to see what kind of air flow you are getting on the road. Do you happen to know


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

For those who've not seen my other post, I've been running the Badger5 TIP since begining on Feb.

Awesome R/R 01/02/2011 Forge TIP, Wak Box & K & N Air Filter

BHP 263.16 (Wheels) / BHP 278.44 (Clutch) / Lb/FT Torque 307.61

Then with Badger5 TIP & Jetex Cone Filter FR08001

BHP 268.30 (Wheels) / BHP 286.27 (Clutch) / Lb/FT Torque 319.29

Gains of

BHP 5.14 (Wheels) / BHP 7.83 (Clutch) / Lb/FT Torque 11.68

I have a Stage 2+ Vagcheck Map and am going down to see Wak & Morgan tomorrow for a general health check, map tweak to maximise gains and log further data, air etc.

I've not done an official post doing a detailed review on this yet as I was waiting until I'd been down to Vagcheck.

Watch this space tomorrow.........


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

TT51 said:


> Have you done any logs of the maf just to compare to what the seat boys are getting?
> 
> I've seen the RR results you posted but keen to see what kind of air flow you are getting on the road. Do you happen to know


I haven't logged as I don't have Vag-Com, hence waiting until after had seen Vagcheck - I was supposed to go last month but something cropped up and had to reschedule


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## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

TTsline02 said:


> TT51 said:
> 
> 
> > Have you done any logs of the maf just to compare to what the seat boys are getting?
> ...


Be interesting to see what your maf logs are before they fettle your car. Oh and after of course


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## T3RBO (Dec 9, 2003)

This available for the original APX engine?


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

TT51 said:


> I would like to see results with just the tip changed with wak box and panel filter. I know it fits the oem airbox but they also recommend using the cone filter but mainly for ease of fitment.
> 
> But for anyone looking to get a silicon tip this may work out as a good alternative with potentially more gains for not much more money


It fits the oem airbox but does need modification (Trimming Hoses)

I found someone that has modified the oem airbox on an S3 to take the Jetex Cone Filter



















One of the jobs tomorrow is to either do this or modify a Neuspeed P-Flow Heat Shield to take the TIP


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## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

That's a neat idea using an oem airbox with the jetex inside. Hope it all goes well tomorrow look forward to seeing what you can update us with.

Especially interested in the modified oem idea if it works


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

Now I know this is going to sound like a silly question but can someone tell me what the "3 inches" relates to please.

Graham


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

Love_iTT said:


> Now I know this is going to sound like a silly question but can someone tell me what the "3 inches" relates to please.
> 
> Graham


there is a metal collar that fits on the turbo and increases the size of the TIP.. i saw matts graph at one of the other meets, didn't have much time to dive into much detail but whilst it gained on PEAK figures think the power band came in later in the rev range.. (can't remember though) i'm on the fence with this mod to be honest... only time will see... but a gain is a gain if it's gained at peak then thats a good thing... although if it's at the sacrifice of lower down power in the rev range you'd have to do a serious +/- excersise throughout the rev range every 500 / 250 RPM and work out the average, to get a "is it worth it" result... I am tempoted especially now i have a bigger inlet.. just the turbo outlet is the same size...


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> Love_iTT said:
> 
> 
> > Now I know this is going to sound like a silly question but can someone tell me what the "3 inches" relates to please.
> ...


Thanks for the reply Tony and that was what I thought the answer would be. The reason I asked was that surely it doesn't matter what size the TIP is at the end which goes onto the turbo because every TIP will end up the same size as the turbo flange it fits on - if it was a 6" TIP, it would still have to taper down to the size of the turbo flange or am I missing the point completely? I haven't measured what the size of the HG-Motorsport is that I've just fitted but whatever the size is then it's clear that the TIP tapers down to the size of the turbo it has to fit on.










So I guess what I'm trying to say is that is the 3" like an optimum size the TIP should be before it tapers?

Graham


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

it all a unknown, realisticly it'd be better to remove it completely (as it all gets cooled in the intercooler) then you have a bigger air volume for the turbo to take...

i think however there's abit more science involved.. to me it looks good.. although with all the additional joints it just looks like more places to have boost leaks.. there bad enough now... now if the whole thing was once peice silicone like the forge (but in the bigger 3" style) there would be less change of leaks in future...

since this is before the turbo i belive it's enhancing the induction kit you have fitted.. would be interesting to see the same filter with forge TIP and same filter with 3" TIP, higher volume of air stored in the TIP would help the suck of the turbo.. but so would the fact it's new and there isn't residual oil vapour in the TIP, (as this will lower octain of the fuel when mixed) Which is why i want a oil catch tank !!

as said i'm on the fense lots of reasons for and against, and i haven't made my mind up... knowing me though i'll probably give it a go. LOL


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> knowing me though i'll probably give it a go. LOL


It would be rude not to  I'd better get an SEM inlet manifold ordered :lol:


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Im pretty sure my 4" TIP doesnt have any additional hoses attached to it, so is there a need for the 1.8 TIP to have any ?
It would make it a lot simpler to loose all the extra hoses and increase the TIP to a bigger size especially if the MAF size can be increased.
Steve


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## TT Boycie (Sep 27, 2009)

I'm in need of a new tip and I'm following this thread closely. Just had a price quote for the badger 5, so I'm waiting to see some proven results on the TT before parting with my cash :d


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## everton5 (Dec 15, 2010)

TTsline02 said:


> For those who've not seen my other post, I've been running the Badger5 TIP since begining on Feb.
> 
> Awesome R/R 01/02/2011 Forge TIP, Wak Box & K & N Air Filter
> 
> ...


how much is the badger tip?


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

TT Boycie said:


> I'm in need of a new tip and I'm following this thread closely. Just had a price quote for the badger 5, so I'm waiting to see some proven results on the TT before parting with my cash :d


Gents:
The TT is the SAME engine as S3, LCR.. is it not ?

Why would it not work just the same on a TT than other 210/225 1.8t's?
Answer: It will work the same.

Every car which has had one fitted has made power.. and in some instances owners are claiming (with dyno's in their hands) of >300bhp.. Now.. I personally dont subscribe to the k04 breaking 300bhp easily.. but it is getting closer and closer.

Anyone of you who run tips, be they std or silicon 'xyz brand'... and remaps, will probably have heard the screech as the turbo spools full boost.. This is cavitation.. Caused by the turbo being unable to draw in the intake air.. Caused by the intake being unable to provide said air.

The TIP I make, is full 3" to the turbo, including the bend unlike the ebay unit pictured earlier in the thread which is 76mm up top then has a 51mm 90degree elbow onto the turbo..

There are plenty of peoples logs on SCN forum and ASN forums from owners who run these, and ALL of them are making more airflow and power.

It works.. and its surprised me how well it has worked. Just browse the forums of 50+ customers who are running these on their LCR's and S3's...... Dont take my word for it. But I dont make stuff up either 

ESP cars this TIP fits on btw


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

TTsline02 said:


> TT51 said:
> 
> 
> > I would like to see results with just the tip changed with wak box and panel filter. I know it fits the oem airbox but they also recommend using the cone filter but mainly for ease of fitment.
> ...


and a GT30 neatly tucked under there also.. 
mucho OEM stylee
tuffty bloke off ASN/SCN


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## T3RBO (Dec 9, 2003)

Badger, are you making these for the original APX engine?

Looks like the below


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## l3wjx (Jan 22, 2011)

He is only making for the apx and upwards but has to have tc and abs hope this helps was on the phone to him earlier :wink:


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## everton5 (Dec 15, 2010)

Had look on his site still cant c a price?


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## markypoo (Sep 4, 2009)

Prices are here in the first post :wink: 
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=289160


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Correct me if im wrong but there are a lot of pipes involved with this TIP other than the inlet and outlet, can you do away with them all and fit the biggest TIP possible and reduce down at the turbo so as to maximise demand ?

I have a 4" TIP with no secondary pipes involved!!
Steve


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

stevecollier said:


> Correct me if im wrong but there are a lot of pipes involved with this TIP other than the inlet and outlet, can you do away with them all and fit the biggest TIP possible and reduce down at the turbo so as to maximise demand ?
> 
> I have a 4" TIP with no secondary pipes involved!!
> Steve


Why?

The "other pipes" are used for DV, EVAP, N75, and Oil Breather
MAF size is 80mm OD on its inlet

Demand is fully catered for a k04 turbo by 76mm intake of "Full Bore" to its inlet. The branch pipes off the inlet dont intrude into the bore at all, so I dont understand what you are describing steve, sorry.

I have 4" intake on my ibiza, GT35, but its a GT35!


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

T3RBO said:


> Badger, are you making these for the original APX engine?
> 
> Looks like the below


hi
Currently no, but I have a std TIP like yours here to look see what I can do to adapt or make for it.
If anyones got a picture of their intake pipe installed, so I can see why it snakes about at the bottom that would be very helpfull. Off hand, from 1st mock up, the TIP I make now, with extension pipes from the existing stubs will cater for the DV and Oil Breather, and leaves N75 to extend to the other side, otherwise it fits.

I have been told by a few folks who have fitted ESP TIPs to their non-ESP cars, like pictured above, that they can fit.. I dont have a car here to confirm this, so working with only a TIP does'nt answer all th3e questions I have.

I dont believe it needs the double bend at the bottom, as its start and end point are identical to the later models, BUT, I dont know without closer look at a car whether the lower bend is there to miss something like an ABS pump or anything like that.

cheers
bill


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2011)

badger5 said:


> Anyone of you who run tips, be they std or silicon 'xyz brand'... and remaps, will probably have heard the screech as the turbo spools full boost.. This is cavitation.. Caused by the turbo being unable to draw in the intake air.. Caused by the intake being unable to provide said air


Nope, never heard this supposed 'screech' at all and I'm running the OEM turbo inlet pipe and a Revo Stage 2.

You still continue to push your own brand without providing us with any meaningful comparative data. Fit your TIP to a OEM air box, Wak box and show us a dyno run on that.

Then fit your TIP to any quality aftermarket induction kit that are popular on here (try the Powertec SL-1) and do some more dyno runs. Then post up the results so we can all see that the vast majority of any gains are due to lower filter dP, not the slight differences in the configuration of your TIP compared to any other brands.

Surely the moderators should be showing an interest in the majority of your recent posts which are in fact, blatent commercial advertising?

Doug


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

Doug Short said:


> badger5 said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone of you who run tips, be they std or silicon 'xyz brand'... and remaps, will probably have heard the screech as the turbo spools full boost.. This is cavitation.. Caused by the turbo being unable to draw in the intake air.. Caused by the intake being unable to provide said air
> ...


Doug.. 
Firstly:I am not pushing a thing.. I did'nt start this thread remember.

I will correct/clarify where people misquote the TIP however, as is only correct. I am not commercially posting anything, for Obvious reasons.. so please dont get your nickers in a twist.

to answer your question.

Secondly:
Tests have been done, and results, plots, logs are available on the ASN/SCN forums where people are very happy with what they're seeing.. A simple search on those forums will reveal the feedback, from "customers" and its working very well. I see the SCN thread link with results has been posted by one of your forum members already..

There is nothing more to prove, its proven... whether you believe it or not.. Have a search, and I am sure you will find data for it. There are a lot of K04 cars about running these now.

A TT is not different to other 210/225 VAG platforms in engine terms. Where it works on audi S3, Leon Cupra R, and already on TT, it works.

regards
bill


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

badger5 said:


> stevecollier said:
> 
> 
> > Correct me if im wrong but there are a lot of pipes involved with this TIP other than the inlet and outlet, can you do away with them all and fit the biggest TIP possible and reduce down at the turbo so as to maximise demand ?
> ...


I indicated that i dont have any secondary pipes on my TIP, not that im running a GT35 too..as seen..








I work in an industry that uses fluid/gas dynamics in pipework calculations and its a proven fact that bends and intrusions cause a drop in efficiency of flow and pressure.
Im sure you would agree that straight pipes with less intrusions give better flow performance.
I know that restrictions within the engine bay meen that comprises have to be made and im sure you have improved upon the OEM TIP.
The secondary pipework doesn't need to be connected to the TIP and a straighter TIP would be better..in my opinion..which is only from a car novice and i expect to be shot down...in big flames.
Steve


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

stevecollier said:


> badger5 said:
> 
> 
> > stevecollier said:
> ...


nail on head steve.. Packaging.
K04's location, gear cables etc etc, and people run assorted induction setups.
totally agree on fewer bends, fewer sectional changes and dimensional changes etc etc all reduce losses.

In my previous life, I too worked on similar industry, where flow performance was key.

Fitting this into an engine bay however forces compromises.
Retaining full MAF bore to the turbo intake with swept bends tho, most certainly reduces intake losses in my experience and has yielded a performance increase. turbo is more efficient when fed by a suitable air supply. It pumps well, its ability to suk aint to good. 

Regarding the other pipework, its there as std, and would have to go "somewhere" if not back into the TIP. Majority of folks want something they can fit easily themselves. those who can go beyond this can more than likely make everything else to suit also. Its no the ultimate, but it has to "fit" into the bay VAG left for us.
My ibiza has one port, for the DV recirc in its 4" intake.. no other pipes were needed, so I did'nt make the intake to have them.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Fortunately their is quite a bit of space on the TT with the OEM filter and battery casing removed to allow a custom unit to be fabbed up. The DV and a breather are plumbed into the discharged side where the turbo is pushing instead of pulling..








With the crap moved outa the way im sure peeps could improve upon the OEM space with filter and batt gone.
Steve


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

badger5 said:


> Doug Short said:
> 
> 
> > badger5 said:
> ...


Doug, it's not like that at all, I'm sure you have seen Bill floating about on other forums, and some of the monster read write up's regarding badger 5 builds.. I wouldn't throw him in the same pot of commercial advertising for gain as you suggested there.. he's a owner.. (maybe not TT but knows these engines very well)

On another note, did you have your map at awesome? if so would you check via vagcome your engine code.. it should start with 8N, but i know my map doesn't it starts with a 1M (which is a seat leon code) all goes back to apr who never put the correct TT code out and the seat code was a better code than the 8N one... all part of the reason APR was dropped by awesome, after the discovery of the issue on my car at rolling road.. be interesting to see if you have a REVO TT code or a REVO seat Leon code..

As Bill says. all these engines are the same.. and i've had this argument many times on this forum that the TT owners seem to be miles behind with mods to these engines compared to the seats, and a lot can be learent on that forum..


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2011)

I will gladly eat my words when Bill posts up dyno runs (or links to such) where he has done exactly what I'm suggesting and compares his TIP with different induction kits including OEM, Wak box, BMC CDA, Powertec, etc. so we can assess whether the claims he is making for his TIP are because of the physical arrangement of it, or just down to the benefit of the induction kit.

I'm not searching for anything on any other forums. We're having the discussion here and the dispute is here, so pay TT Forum members the courtesy of putting the raw data here so we can assess it. If the 'proof' is out there, why should I spend hours searching other forums when you can spend seconds copying and pasting it up here.

To get away with making claims like this, an OEM would have to carry out the above tests as a minimum, ideally backed-up with some basic computational fluid dynamics simulations.

From what I've seen lately, Bill has taken every opportunity to push the goods and services he is selling. That is against the rules and the moderators have been alerted.

As for all the other things regarding this code and that code, I couldn't care less. I just don't want people on here jumping on a bandwagon and potentially being disappointed. I can tell that Bill believes what he is saying, but I can't see anything on this forum that backs up quite clear claims that the Badger TIP is providing a significant output increase. For the record, I'm not assassinating Bill's character or the quality of his builds, just claims for his TIP.

Some posts are discussing correctly, the benefit of less convoluted pipework which is obviously correct, but the Badger TIP does not appear to be significantly less convoluted than OEM or Forge efforts.

It's a cheaper alternative to Forge and other reinforced silicon efforts, yes. That's all.

Doug


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## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

Bloody hell Doreen, you have a whole ruddy bees nest in your bonnet don't you :-* :-* :lol:

Calm down love, you'll have a coronary 

Charlene


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2011)

Trawling the thread reveals some issues. Up to page 19...

"3" TIP fitted to wellys s3
comparison run to last time on dyno. differences being 3 inch tip, *some tweaks to add more fuel to go with more airflow*"

"The only downside to the work today was the surge i am now expirencing, i get surge the whole way to 4.5k rpm and i am also getting torqrue spikes of 393lb/ft!!!! reported on the LG, i actually trust this figure as it was previously consistent with all BHP/torque figures. I will be getting the map tweaked as soon as i get some good logs together."

"Originally Posted by Damoegan 
Alot of surging probs I've seen/come across are all software relted..

Yes sometimes, but it's not in this case . It's basically a mismatch in size and flow rating of the compressor and turbine .

With a STD upgraded forge TIP , the car doesnt surge , this is due to the compressor wheel not having the same "grip" on the air . Simple description is what happens when you partially block a vacuum cleaner , the turbine speed increases !!"

"The larger csa of the 3 inch tip may have slowed down the velocity of the air into the turbo and combined with the increased csa of the manifold runners response is slightly slower at lower rpms and i think these two factors could be playing a part to the cavitation."

"I could have dialed in more initial boost to recover the *lost torque from the tip*"

"Just to confirm, before the TIP i would build boost to about 24psi just after 3krpm, i did have some cavitation but i was minumum, here is a graph of my boost before the TIP, after the TIP install we got the chop chop sound of the turbo surging badly, so we have to bring the boost down to 1.1/1.2bar before 4.3rpm and then let loose after that, with the boost brought down to this level it was only pulling the same G/S as my old Samco TIP at this stage but torque was down at about 240lbft and then rose to 260lbft after 4.3krpm.

The TIP did manage to pull 200gs+ at 3200rpm but *surge was crazy.*"

"just speaking with welly this evening, and i was wrong his is surging slightly on its 22-23psi boost level up to about 4krpm."

"Bill, these are the logs Pre and Post TIP install and lastest MAP to reduce surge, they are very interesting as you can see, notice on the post logs the G/S increased then reduced, if i had a better sample rate you would see it jumping up/down more, this is the surge i was talking about.These are 3rd gear runs as i dont want to lose my license before Xmas and its a bit icey here!"

"getting stage two power with the 3" tip and very little boost its just *a shame the bulk of the torque has been lost.*"

Obviously no issues at all here then. Put me down for one... :?

Doug


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2011)

I think that the main issue here is which design of turbo inlet pipe delivers the optimum flow condition to the turbine compressor wheel and it's not really anything to do with increasing the volume of air (which I dispute is to do with the TIP anyway).

I suspect that the stock and Forge design tapered inlet pipe delivers a more uniform flow to the inlet than the Badger design which is, in effect a uniform diameter delivery pipe with an abrupt reduction in final diameter. It is the effect on air flow that this abrupt reduction might be causing that concerns me with respect to the issues being reported on the Cupra forum.

I've had a quick look at some technical papers available via the internet which examine these issues. The first one references out to a second paper which has some interesting conclusions on the inlet air flow conditions.

http://www.imeche.org/Libraries/Turboch ... .sflb.ashx

_"In [HELLSTRÖM F, FUCHS L 2008 Effects of Inlet Conditions on the Turbine Performance of a Radial Turbine. ASME paper GT2008-51088], a variety of non-pulsatile boundary conditions was used at inlet to the volute, including uniform flow with and without turbulence, and several combinations of turbulence with swirl and streamwise vortices. The undisturbed inlet profile gave the highest time-averaged power output, with a variation of nearly 20% in time-averaged power across all cases predicted. The authors attribute this to a lower bulk flow velocity through the wheel due to flow perturbations, inlet swirl giving rise to vortices in the volute and unfavourable conditions at inlet to the wheel, and the wake of the tongue being enhanced by inlet vortices. These results demonstrate the important effect that fine detail of the turbine inlet conditions has on the predicted turbine performance, but do require confirmation by experiment."_

You can read the paper for yourself here:

http://www.pff.nu/upload/EMFO/resultat/ ... -51088.pdf

Meanwhile, I'll keep looking into this objectively rather than ranting on like a lunatic. I'll also seek some advice from my engineering-qualified colleagues.

Doug

If you want me to put my money where my mouth is, I shall. Bill, I'm happy to try out one of your TIPs on my car and log on VCDS in 3rd and 4th gear under the same conditions I've done before. I'll give you half the money inc. P&P as a refundable deposit. If there is a good increase with no reported side effects that would require adjustment to my ECU map, I'll pay you the other half and keep the kit. If not, you take it back and refund my money. Can I say fairer than that?


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

Doug Short said:


> I will gladly eat my words when Bill posts up dyno runs (or links to such) where he has done exactly what I'm suggesting and compares his TIP with different induction kits including OEM, Wak box, BMC CDA, Powertec, etc. so we can assess whether the claims he is making for his TIP are because of the physical arrangement of it, or just down to the benefit of the induction kit.
> 
> I'm not searching for anything on any other forums. We're having the discussion here and the dispute is here, so pay TT Forum members the courtesy of putting the raw data here so we can assess it. If the 'proof' is out there, why should I spend hours searching other forums when you can spend seconds copying and pasting it up here.
> 
> ...


Doug,

Some facts..

You invite me in your posts to post some "proof", to which I answer by referring you/others reading this to the other forums who I am active on, already LINKED TO BY OTHERS in this thread.

I am an "advertiser" on SCN, where I can in fact post such things.. YOU in the next breath report my posts to the mods as being commercial content, and I receive a polite request to remove my website url off my siggy which I have done also, no probs with that, its clearly a "touchy" subject on here with a few.

So, whilst you invite the proof, which is on many posts on the SCN and ASN forums, I DELIBERATELY did'nt post these results directly on here, BECAUSE I am not an advertiser, but I still get accused of advertising it.. FFS man.. lol Ironic eh!

Seems I cant win with your conflicting logic, unless I missed something?

I have the logs, dynos, and there are many other customer ones too, confirming what they have gained.. VAG platform 1.8t after all, is the same thing.


----------



## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

TTSLine [Matt] i believe has one fitted and i think WAK and Morgan had a look at this setup last week.
These guys should be able to give an informed comment, if they are passing by this post..
Steve


----------



## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

DOUG
Seemingly like have a serious Bee in you bonnet for some reason about a proven product... Your loss, not mine if you dont want one, plenty of others seem to be enjoying theirs.. I doubt you speak for the TT forum ownership.

SOME MORE FACTS FOR YOU-

The posts, you linked to are out of context and relate to one guys Hybrid K04 turbo.. The issue being the TURBO spec, NOT the TIP which feeds it.. If you had taken the time to read the thread you will see that was the case. I would'nt if I were you post misinformation such as that in future, you do no one any service on whatever crusade you believe you are on, to disprove the 3inch TIP. I Request you edit your post accordingly, as thats misinformation abouta HYBRID TURBO SPEC ISSUE only.

I suggest you do some more informative searching of the whole story before trying to slag off a product which simply works very well on every car its fitted to, in respect to gaining airflow, power and torque.



> If you want me to put my money where my mouth is, I shall. Bill, I'm happy to try out one of your TIPs on my car and log on VCDS in 3rd and 4th gear under the same conditions I've done before. I'll give you half the money inc. P&P as a refundable deposit. If there is a good increase with no reported side effects that would require adjustment to my ECU map, I'll pay you the other half and keep the kit. If not, you take it back and refund my money. Can I say fairer than that?


As for your suggested test above, and DESPITE, your negative posts, I can offer you, as a "tester" if "ok" with mods, and other 225 TT owners interested and not deemed "advertising" etc... *cough*.

The offer would be: Free dyno here, of as is spec of your car to get a before log on no less than 3-4 runs. I would fit the TIP free and rerun, relog under same conditions and what ever results come of it are openly visible. If you dont like it, I will revert your intake back to as arrived condition if you wish. If you like it you buy it, if you dont you wont.. simples, and you have had free dyno and logging as part of the offer.

Instead of being confrontational, and googling a lot of irrelevant, non-contextual info about why it would'nt work, its easier to show that it does in fact work............ as 50+ others already know who are running one. TT's can benefit fom this same as the other vag 210/225's currently do.

the dilema I see, is you reporting me to the mods for "advertising", yet openly engaging with me about the very same topic... All I can see if angst and being seen as advertising by stealth... An lest we not forget, I DID'NT START THIS THREAD - lol

Eyes wide open Sir. :0
if you wish to chat about this, as its easier than words which will no doubt get inflamed into something else.. I am on 07976 800775

all the best
bill


----------



## markypoo (Sep 4, 2009)

Doug
If you're not satisfied that the product works then dont buy it, simple as, but let the rest of us make our own minds up about it, if we make a mistake then thats down to us :wink:


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## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

Bill

Credit to you sir for the way in which you are handling Doug's very obvious pmt replies :lol:

I do hope that it stays as a discussion rather than a proverbial slagging off as it was I who started the thread as I've read the thread on scn with much anticipation that a similar thread might run on hear with seemingly great success of the product.

As Doug has said it would be good to see the back to back results of just changing the tip. One reason personally for this is I just don't like the noise of an induction kit so prefer to keep a modified oem airbox. As I don't have a silicon tip at the moment then there is good reason to be spending my money elsewhere if the product will still produce more power.

If posting up results is an issue then if you do have the information I require if you don't mind sending a pm then I can share it with anyone else who would like to see it.

Neil


----------



## UK225 (May 12, 2002)

stevecollier said:


> TTSLine [Matt] i believe has one fitted and i think WAK and Morgan had a look at this setup last week.
> These guys should be able to give an informed comment, if they are passing by this post..
> Steve


Hi Steve,

This particular vehicle has had many HW modifications carried out (including Bills 3" TIP) since we last saw it, so its impossible to be able to give any direct comparison to how it previously behaved with its silicone TIP vs the Badger 3" TIP.

Best regards
Morgan


----------



## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Just thought you might have an opinion at first glance..
Steve


----------



## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

stevecollier said:


> Just thought you might have an opinion at first glance..
> Steve


Unfortunately Morgan couldn't make it on Sunday due to work commitments, so it was myself and Wak who had a longer day than expected finding a boost leak (which I didn't know I had), modifying a Modshack MOFO & Neuspeed Heat Shield, and extended mapping.


----------



## markypoo (Sep 4, 2009)

TTsline02 said:


> stevecollier said:
> 
> 
> > Just thought you might have an opinion at first glance..
> ...


So whats your first impressions now the 3" tip has been fitted and map tweaks done ?
That is if it was fitted at the weekend


----------



## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

TT51 said:


> Bill
> 
> Credit to you sir for the way in which you are handling Doug's very obvious pmt replies :lol:
> 
> ...


Hi Neil..

I have fitted one of these to stock airbox to prove you can.. Its slightly longer to fit as you trim the hoses to suit the induction you happen to run.. It comes with this varied induction in mind so can be tweaked to suit pretty much everything so far. elbows left long aside from the one trimmed to the turbo.
If you were local I could fit it for you, and do the before/after test to satisfy and demonstrate what it does.
Needless to say, remapped cars running more airflow will nett higher gains.
the S3 tested was the combined 3" TIP and JR filter, so the combination of decent flowing filter and 3" TIP is the total gain. Obviously the Jr contributed some of the gains..
info links sent.


----------



## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

markypoo said:


> TTsline02 said:
> 
> 
> > stevecollier said:
> ...


I've had the Badger5 TIP on since 1st Feb and have been more than happy with it and with the gaines it has delivered. The pull especially late mid to top end is extremely impressive and big turbo like.

As Morgan outlined I've done alot of modifications since seeing them last year and the extended mapping was more down to these than the TIP.

Booked in for a little more work at Awesome next Tuesday along with another R/R


----------



## Wak (May 6, 2002)

markypoo said:


> TTsline02 said:
> 
> 
> > stevecollier said:
> ...


It was already fitted so we have no before after comparisons to make.....

Mapping was purely to ensure the hardware as presented wasnt making EGT's go through the roof, Protection kicking in because of the change in boost profile and Injectors not overloaded although there is very very little headroom left.

Beyond that Matt has had much hardware fitted and characteristic changes caused by them that its impossible to isolate which mod has had what effect whether positive or negative.


----------



## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

badger5 said:


> TT51 said:
> 
> 
> > Bill
> ...


Thanks for the links I will have a look through them shortly

I may take you up on the offer and come down to Glos 

Will prob give you a call sometime to discuss


----------



## Gone (May 5, 2009)

The voice of reason from the other side of the world:

Let's remember that the original post here was kicked off by a link to the thread in which a guy with a stage 2 map reported a 5 bhp gain by fitting the Badger 5 TIP alongside some aftermarket exhaust.

(1) stage 2 with the associated mods is powerful enough for most people, the rest is window dressing

(2) it's impossible to say without an extensive review of that particular car what the contribution is from the new exhaust and what is due to the TIP

(3) The only place you will really notice a 5 bhp gain or loss is on the RR, which is useless except for bragging rights.

Keep the money and treat the other half to a nice night out


----------



## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

badyaker said:


> Let's remember that the original post here was kicked off by a link to the thread in which a guy with a stage 2 map reported a 5 bhp gain by fitting the Badger 5 TIP alongside some aftermarket exhaust.


Just so the facts are correct the 5 bhp gain was by fitting the Badger 5 TIP alongside a *Jetex Cone Filter FR-08001 * (not an aftermarket exhaust) I already had a full Pipewerx.

BHP 5.14 (Wheels) / BHP 7.83 (Clutch) / Lb/FT Torque 11.68

I bought and had them fitted together as both had been used in conjunction and showed good gaines over on the other forums.


----------



## T3RBO (Dec 9, 2003)

badger5 said:


> T3RBO said:
> 
> 
> > Badger, are you making these for the original APX engine?
> ...


I will check for you at the weekend, but I currently have a BAM silicone version fitted and although the upper pipework needed extending to fit the different outlets, I'm pretty sure the bottom just popped on with no hassle.

I would be serious interested in a true APX version in red


----------



## everton5 (Dec 15, 2010)

TTsline02 said:


> badyaker said:
> 
> 
> > Let's remember that the original post here was kicked off by a link to the thread in which a guy with a stage 2 map reported a 5 bhp gain by fitting the Badger 5 TIP alongside some aftermarket exhaust.
> ...


how much work was needed to get the filter to fit in the oem air box?


----------



## Diveratt (Aug 31, 2009)

Hi T3rbo & Badger,

I helped Robb (T3RBO) fit the BAM tip pipe and it was a bit of a pain the breather & N75 hoses are in different loactions so we had to run some extention hoses to fit, There is also a extra breather hose that we fitted a crank case breather to. But as Robb is running a Modshack intake filter sorting the liine up was no problem at all. Looking at the badger TIP because you can turn the TIP around to any direction realtive to the inlet and inlet and outlet bends it may be a bit easier to fit, but it will be trial & error and you may still end up with stubs pointing in the wrong direction.

I suspect the best bet will be to take a look at an OEM APX TIP to work out where the hoses need to go and compare that Badgers BAM TIP. If there are any big differences making up a custom 3" APX tip so that the pipes line up should not be too hard and the rest of the Badger kit ie bends and Turbo connector should fit no problem.

Kevin

PS Robb I think the APX silicon TIP looks like a real dogs breakfast a custom Badger type TIP would be a lot better


----------



## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

everton5 said:


> how much work was needed to get the filter to fit in the oem air box?


I thought about modifying the oem air box to take the TIP & Cone Filter which has been done by an A3 owner pic posted on P3, but deceided to modify a Neuspeed P-Flo heat shield (picking back up from engineers later this week)


----------



## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

Diveratt said:


> Hi T3rbo & Badger,
> 
> I helped Robb (T3RBO) fit the BAM tip pipe and it was a bit of a pain the breather & N75 hoses are in different loactions so we had to run some extention hoses to fit, There is also a extra breather hose that we fitted a crank case breather to. But as Robb is running a Modshack intake filter sorting the liine up was no problem at all. Looking at the badger TIP because you can turn the TIP around to any direction realtive to the inlet and inlet and outlet bends it may be a bit easier to fit, but it will be trial & error and you may still end up with stubs pointing in the wrong direction.
> 
> ...


given the extension pipes are just pipes, would it be acceptable to just have longer ones.
only n75 is on opposite side from the std tip I have here, and the oil breather and DV are adjacent vs the ESP type ones.


----------



## welly (Nov 12, 2010)

Doug Short said:


> Trawling the thread reveals some issues. Up to page 19...
> 
> "3" TIP fitted to wellys s3
> comparison run to last time on dyno. differences being 3 inch tip, *some tweaks to add more fuel to go with more airflow*"
> ...


Doug, is this you?


----------



## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

welly said:


> Doug, is this you?


You come on here with 4 posts and imply someone is a w**nk*r :? - I suggest you look in the mirror.

You might think it was highly witty and entertaining, personally it just makes me think you are a bit of a cnut - I was hoping to see some sort of informed response from you.

Charlie


----------



## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Hopefully they know each other and its a bit of hello banter !!
We wouldnt want the post spoilt by a welly in a banana.. :lol: 
Steve


----------



## welly (Nov 12, 2010)

Charlie said:


> welly said:
> 
> 
> > You come on here with 4 posts and imply someone is a w**nk*r :? - I suggest you look in the mirror.
> ...


God, what is it with this forum?? It was only a bit of a laugh.

Personally, I would love to sit here for half an hour typing a long and drawn out response... However, Bill has already said all there is to say. People are fitting them, going out and logging and getting increased air flow. AMD recently fitted one for someone having run on their dyno before, and then after. There was a substantial gain in power from before fitting to after.

Why should I sit here and waste time I don't have, trying to convince someone that something works, when there is clear evidence that it does?

That's like me sitting here trying to convince old Dougie that the moon causes the tides. I know it does, as does everyone else. There is plenty of evidence to prove the theories. So why should anyone bother. If someone is too ignorant to do the research by themselves, or to say that something they haven't ever tested might not work, having had no experience of it, they are idiots.

What you were 'expecting to see from me', on the whole, I don't really care to be frank. Adding to that, your opinion of me is about as important to me as a carrier bag blowing in the wind - not very.


----------



## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

nice S3...

I'd said before i'm on the fense... with it the math is yes.. bigger chamber obviously bigger air, and is a improving factor over any airfilter... turbo should be less strained as more air is available from the outlet and therefore it shouldn't be sucking quite so hard...

as for gains.. it got 5BHP on matt's but looked to lose some power lower in the revs... as said i haven;t looked at matts in massive detail.. maybe i will on sunday when i see him at syds.. to clarify if it would suit my car... i don't wanna lose much more low down power...

but yes the theory is sound and the other results look good... just not as convinced as i was hoping with matt's as the WAK box being removed and the air filter being fitted could attribute to the gains he got... i mean a gain is a gain so it does work.. it just didn't seem to manage as well as the other posts i've seen...

like i said knowing me i'll get one anyway. :lol: :lol: '(have to wait for funds to recover after SEM manifold now)


----------



## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

To be fair, you did jump in with both feet.
I see you have took the time to create a profile with pics, so hopefully you can impart some decent knowledge to the peeps.
Nice looking banana thing.. 

I thought butterflies wings created the tides..
Steve


----------



## welly (Nov 12, 2010)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> nice S3...
> 
> I'd said before i'm on the fense... with it the math is yes.. bigger chamber obviously bigger air, and is a improving factor over any airfilter... turbo should be less strained as more air is available from the outlet and therefore it shouldn't be sucking quite so hard...
> 
> ...


Fair enough - I have permission from an ASN member to post these as they may be of interest.

This was a drive in drive out fitting, with before and after dynos:


----------



## Diveratt (Aug 31, 2009)

badger5 said:


> Diveratt said:
> 
> 
> > Hi T3rbo & Badger,
> ...


Hi Badger,
That,s just what we did  but it was no a very elegant solution, I suspect that as you could fit your TIP in any direction that may result in better pipe runs. 
Kevin


----------



## welly (Nov 12, 2010)

stevecollier said:


> To be fair, you did jump in with both feet.
> I see you have took the time to create a profile with pics, so hopefully you can impart some decent knowledge to the peeps.
> Nice looking banana thing..
> 
> ...


The sig was copied directly from another few forums.

Not known for subtly.... lol.

I would suggest that someone part with some cash and do your own testing. Make up your OWN minds. I have one, and have been running it for a long time now.

I was running a different manifold when it was originally installed, and it took the S3 (albeit with the hybrid) from ~305 to 331.7 was the best output.

I would also like to point out that a lot of the bits and bobs that Doug quoted with the post I abused were taken out of context entirely.

For example:

"3" TIP fitted to wellys s3. comparison run to last time on dyno. differences being 3 inch tip, some tweaks to add more fuel to go with more airflow"

^ More airflow not just from the TIP, but also from a recently installed high flow exhaust manifold.

"just speaking with welly this evening, and i was wrong his is surging slightly on its 22-23psi boost level up to about 4krpm."

^ This is actually to do with the hybrid turbo, and the size on the compressor wheel installed in it. Basically, the wheel is the same as a GT28RS - or there abouts - and the surge is caused by the air struggling to get through the turbo. This was taken from a discussion with another SCN member about hybrid turbo surging. NOT about the TIP.

"getting stage two power with the 3" tip and very little boost its just a shame the bulk of the torque has been lost."

^ WTF is this to do with? I think I know what member of SCN this was from and lets just think about this for a second... Stage 2 power from the 3" with very little boost. Torque not there? Ummmm, that would be because there is no boost. Not because of the TIP. Torque and boost directly correlate - less boost = less torque. End of.


----------



## welly (Nov 12, 2010)

stevecollier said:


> Nice looking banana thing..


She's called Bumble.


----------



## Diveratt (Aug 31, 2009)

Hi Welly,
I see the BHP is over 240 so Fred is not going to will be happy 

Out of interest was the first run on a standard TIP or as silicone one?

Kevin


----------



## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

*Sigh*. Gone are the simple days when a mod was putting on a bee sting arial or sorting out your spacers. :roll: :wink:

I feel I now need to do a university degree in Physics to even begin to understand some of these posts these days. 

I think I'll stick with what I know and go to Halfords tonight and buy some microfibre cloths - can't go wrong there surely. :lol: :lol:

Graham


----------



## welly (Nov 12, 2010)

Diveratt said:


> Hi Welly,
> I see the BHP is over 240 so Fred is not going to will be happy
> 
> Out of interest was the first run on a standard TIP or as silicone one?
> ...


I believe it was silicone - but I can't confirm to be fair.


----------



## Adam-tt (Apr 3, 2010)

Love_iTT said:


> I feel I now need to do a university degree in Physics to even begin to understand some of these posts these days.


your not the only one lol


----------



## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

Love_iTT said:


> *Sigh*. Gone are the simple days when a mod was putting on a bee sting arial or sorting out your spacers. :roll: :wink:
> 
> I feel I now need to do a university degree in Physics to even begin to understand some of these posts these days.
> 
> ...


it was on a sick S3... which ran a too small JR filter on it... but regardless the change was from its rubber Oe tip to the 3inch one, with same, too small JR filter the car came with.

Danes S3 result below: car runs miltek catback, rtech stage 1 map. (and IE rods in it)
















before any change, run on dyno on its std airbox and silicon tip, with k&n filter element. airbox had been drilled with big holes in its base by previous owner.
logs:

```
Saturday	18	December	2010	11:43:30:61786	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.3	Data version: 20101206									
8N0 906 018 J		1.8L R4/5VT         0004

	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'020				Group C:	'115			
		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.
	TIME					TIME					TIME				
Marker	STAMP	 /min	 %	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	°KW	°KW	°KW	°KW	STAMP	 /min	 %	 mbar	 mbar

	409.24	1520	85.7	8.16	27.28	408.52	0	0	0	0	408.83	1520	80.5	1640	1100
	410.35	1800	94.7	8.84	33.89	409.63	0	0	0	0	410.04	1680	92.5	1690	1200
	411.45	2320	121.1	12.24	57	410.73	0	0	0	0	411.07	2160	108.3	2250	1350
	412.66	2840	172.2	17.68	104.86	411.86	0	0	0	0	412.27	2680	146.6	2340	1830
	413.89	3400	190.2	19.72	127.64	413.07	0	0	0	0	413.49	3240	185.7	2340	2320
	415.08	3920	191	19.72	142.39	414.27	0	0	0	0	414.67	3720	190.2	2340	2310
	416.31	4400	188	19.72	157.31	415.48	0	0	0	0	415.89	4240	188.7	2330	2320
	417.49	4880	183.5	19.72	172.33	416.71	0	0	0	0	417.09	4720	186.5	2310	2300
	418.69	5320	176.7	19.38	181.17	417.89	0	0	0	0	418.31	5160	180.5	2340	2220
	419.91	5760	173.7	19.38	188.36	419.09	0	0	0	0	419.52	5600	172.9	2340	2190
	421.1	6160	163.2	18.02	190.53	420.31	3	0	3	0	420.7	6040	166.2	2290	2110
	422.34	6600	155.6	17	196.14	421.54	3	0	3	0	421.92	6440	157.9	2210	2090
	423.53	7000	145.1	15.98	193.72	422.75	3	0	6	3	423.11	6880	148.9	2080	2020
	424.77	7040	26.3	1.02	4.89	423.93	3	0	6	3	424.32	7240	128.6	1530	2260
```
then 3 inch tip ws fitted along with the FR08001 filter
dyno'd again... no other change

```
Saturday	18	December	2010	13:36:18:61786	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.3	Data version: 20101206									
8N0 906 018 J		1.8L R4/5VT         0004

	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'020				Group C:	'118			
		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		RPM	Temperature	Load	Absolute Pres.
	TIME					TIME					TIME				
Marker	STAMP	 /min	 %	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	°KW	°KW	°KW	°KW	STAMP	 /min	°C	 %	 mbar

	153.79	1720	40.6	4.08	13.56	154.11	0	0	0	0	154.52	1560	15	0	1020
	154.9	1600	45.1	4.42	13.83	155.33	0	0	0	0	155.7	1640	15	92.5	1060
	156.11	1640	82.7	7.82	27.97	156.53	0	0	0	0	156.92	1640	15	94.5	1200
	157.32	1760	93.2	8.84	32.92	157.74	0	0	0	0	158.14	2120	15	94.5	1370
	158.53	2320	126.3	12.58	60.11	158.92	0	0	0	0	159.34	2680	15	94.5	1940
	159.72	2880	187.2	18.7	106.94	160.04	0	0	0	0	160.43	3200	15	83.5	2110
	160.85	3360	178.9	18.36	116.39	161.26	0	0	0	0	161.63	3680	16	83.1	2130
	162.03	3880	186.5	18.36	138.17	162.46	0	0	0	0	162.84	4200	17	83.9	2160
	163.16	4320	188.7	18.7	155.36	163.56	0	0	0	0	163.94	4640	18	87.5	2180
	164.29	4800	191.7	20.06	177.11	164.67	0	0	0	0	165.06	5120	21	87.5	2210
	165.48	5280	191.7	20.4	194.58	165.87	0	0	0	0	166.28	5600	24	93.3	2260
	166.67	5720	190.2	19.72	208.86	167.08	0	0	0	0	167.5	6000	27	92.9	2250
	167.88	6160	183.5	19.04	209.19	168.29	0	0	0	0	168.69	6400	31	94.5	2190
	169.1	6520	174.4	18.02	215.28	169.51	0	0	0	0	169.93	6800	36	87.8	2120
	170.32	6960	159.4	16.32	210.36	170.72	0	0	0	0	171.12	7200	39	74.1	2100
```
bolt on g/s gains of from an intil best 196.14g/s to 215.28g/s = gained 19.14g/s of airflow 

another S3's own postings below also:
http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-foru ... sults.html


----------



## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

welly said:


> Fair enough - I have permission from an ASN member to post these as they may be of interest.


now thats more like what i would expect to see... not quite sure where matts lower loss has come from as that seems to track true, just build higher and last longer...

Good to see...


----------



## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> welly said:
> 
> 
> > Fair enough - I have permission from an ASN member to post these as they may be of interest.
> ...


My lower loss has nothing to do with the TIP as my R/R before fitted follows same pattern - it's something else which I can't put my finger on yet but investigations continuing - hopefully may have more of an idea after been into Awesome next Tues


----------



## Guest (Mar 9, 2011)

welly said:


> Doug, is this you?


No, I use different hands on different days to equalise the muscle gain to each arm so hopefully people don't notice. As a submariner colleague used to say quite often. Women are great, but you can't beat the real thing. :lol:

I promised myself I wouldn't come back to this train wreck of a thread, but a criminal always returns to the scene of the crime. Heh heh.

How thoughtful of you to endear yourself to established members of this high quality forum by indulging in silly little schoolboy taunts. Why didn't that behaviour surprise me...?

How nice of you and Bill to accept such well-considered constructive criticism of your endeavours. No insecurity there then. Next time I won't waste my time trawling your tawdry little forum trying to find non-existent facts and truths where the members can't even use proper words and sentences. I think I'll just fling a few cheap insults around. Oh no, wait... We don't do that on here. Oh no, wait... You haven't been around long enough to realise that have you?

How nice of the moderators of this quality forum to allow such personal insults... I've had threads shut down and deleted for inciting far less than this. :roll:

BTW. I have just decided to order a Forge silicon TIP. I am more comfortable spending my hard-earned money on items that are well-designed and properly tested.

Such fun!

Doug


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

hasn't it lost some lower down here:-










granted looking at it you've gained more top end than you've lost lower down.. but thats what had me with matt's...


----------



## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> hasn't it lost some lower down here:-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yep, 10lbft less but sustained higher torque further up in the rpm, hence more power.
for some, this reduction in "spike torque initially" is probably a good thing for their rods!
when i did my own tweaked map on top of this we went up to 278bhp and same torque as before.. the point of the plot above tho was to show no-change bolt on difference. when map was tweaked afterwards we gained power and torque above those results.


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

Doug Short said:


> I promised myself I wouldn't come back to this train wreck of a thread, but a criminal always returns to the scene of the crime. Heh heh.


apt choice of words..
and yet, you returned to add further destructive discussion... he he indeed.
the only person wrecking things is you.



Doug Short said:


> How nice of you and Bill to accept such well-considered constructive criticism of your endeavours. No insecurity there then.


You are quite some piece of work Doug. Insecurity... is something you clearly have.
I wonder if you are as vocal face to face with people eh?



Doug Short said:


> Next time I won't waste my time trawling your tawdry little forum trying to find non-existent facts and truths where the members can't even use proper words and sentences. I think I'll just fling a few cheap insults around. Oh no, wait... We don't do that on here. Oh no, wait... You haven't been around long enough to realise that have you?


tawdry little forum... really? you being the ambassador of what is acceptable behaviour on a quality forum of course.. Now that IS FUNNY.



Doug Short said:


> How nice of the moderators of this quality forum to allow such personal insults... I've had threads shut down and deleted for inciting far less than this. :roll:


Oddly, people like you behaving like you are, dont reflect the "image" of a "quality forum".



Doug Short said:


> BTW. I have just decided to order a Forge silicon TIP. I am more comfortable spending my hard-earned money on items that are well-designed and properly tested.


good for you.. your choice, your money. surprised you did'nt already have one being so knowledgable on such matters.

however...I guarantee you Forge have no where near as much 1st hand test data as I do. I have a very good working relationship with forge, and the gains achieved in the main tests i did were changing FROM a Forge tip, to the 3 inch.. Go figure! 

You are incapable of rational discussion, and from the outset have had a downer on something you know nothing about, yet feel compelled to dismiss..... Quite odd behavior



Doug Short said:


> Such fun!


and that kind of sums what you are about.

and... btw, not that it means anything here more than likely, is I have reported your post as antisocial and disruptive..
unless there's something relevant to the topic.. there's nothing for you to say.


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## l3wjx (Jan 22, 2011)

Core the banta in here,(brill) I think his has to be the best thread going so far I have read through everything and if a smaller tip makes a diff im sure the 3" will defo make a diff,i have seen logs and spoke to people with these on and there logs have proven that the tip has worked,its a nice product that someone has made and will v.respeced when the word get around what a fab product this is.

Im looking to but one at the end of the month and i will do logs before and after and post up, :wink:

But i will look forward in reading more posts from people,
Bill seems like a realy nice bloke and im sure he has allot of time for us,help mabie needed in the future,
Dont bite the hand that feeds you lol


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

l3wjx said:


> Core the banta in here,(brill) I think his has to be the best thread going so far I have read through everything and if a smaller tip makes a diff im sure the 3" will defo make a diff,i have seen logs and spoke to people with these on and there logs have proven that the tip has worked,its a nice product that someone has made and will v.respeced when the word get around what a fab product this is.
> 
> Im looking to but one at the end of the month and i will do logs before and after and post up, :wink:
> 
> ...


i am a nice bloke..
I dont get why doug has behaved like he has.... whatever tho.. Plenty more open minded peeps about.

I am a VAG enthusiast 1st, and happen to have turned an enthusiasm into a business. I have been in the VAG scene for more years than most as some oldies on here will know. Even been on here quietly since 2003!


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## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

l3wjx said:


> Im looking to but one at the end of the month and i will do logs before and after and post up, :wink:


Nice one mate I'm sure there will be more as there is no way that over 30 pages on SCN is all bullshit :lol:

Sounds like Tony will end up getting one, any excuse for another go on the rollers

I am going to get one, just need to try and work out a way of going down to see Bill and have it fitted and RR. Only problem is time at the moment 

Thanks for the pm Bill, will be in touch one way or another :roll:


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

I am personally amazed by the way this thread has developed, i have been around on here for a few years myself and over that time the number of technical contributors has deteriorated and hence we now have a zillion posts about what wheels to buy, what coilovers, spacers blah blah blah and a pretty low proportion of tech.
Here we have a real technical guy, arguably an expert in all things VAG, someone like wak or morgan but who spends more time on other forums and yet he is getting zero respect from one of our members. its a really poor show, we should be welcoming technical contributors not insulting them. he probably has a lot more to contribute than most!
My TT runs a different turbo and already has a custom fabricated tip so i am not a potential customer here - but if i was still running a K04 i would be all over this!!
Now Doug is normally a pretty reasonable guy and I usually have great respect for his scientific approach to data analysis but on this occasion i think its got well out of hand.
I would suggest you just agree to disagree.


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

Matt B said:


> I am personally amazed by the way this thread has developed, i have been around on here for a few years myself and over that time the number of technical contributors has deteriorated and hence we now have a zillion posts about what wheels to buy, what coilovers, spacers blah blah blah and a pretty low proportion of tech.
> Here we have a real technical guy, arguably an expert in all things VAG, someone like wak or morgan but who spends more time on other forums and yet he is getting zero respect from one of our members. its a really poor show, we should be welcoming technical contributors not insulting them. he probably has a lot more to contribute than most!
> My TT runs a different turbo and already has a custom fabricated tip so i am not a potential customer here - but if i was still running a K04 i would be all over this!!
> Now Doug is normally a pretty reasonable guy and I usually have great respect for his scientific approach to data analysis but on this occasion i think its got well out of hand.
> I would suggest you just agree to disagree.


Amen


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## Dane (Mar 9, 2011)

Hello chaps,

I wouldn't normally venture on to a TT forum but I am the owner of the s3 which created the logs and dyno runs that Bill has posted. I'm happy to give a passenger ride in my car to a trusted member from ttoc so they may pass on their views so as you can hear it from one of your own. Hell I'll even put my stage 1 + badger 5 TIP s3 against a stage 2 k04 turbo'd car to prove a point (hopefully it wouldn't have to go that far  and a simple shotgun ride would suffice ). Finally I don't want to break any rules in my first post but my experience of the Badger 5 Tip is that you get pushed into the back of your seat and kept there! (Incidentally I've remained there for the best part of 3 months) 

Kind regards,

Dane
Asn member


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## alun (Aug 2, 2010)

after reading all the threads. im convinced these seam like a good buy. soon as i can get the cash together ill get one bought and post my logs up.

doug.. i cant see how youve got the hump here.. it looks a good product and is backed up by lots of data.

can we all stop slinging mud and get back to the facts now?


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Deleted for a rethink.. :roll: 
Steve


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## Hark (Aug 23, 2007)

Steve without being blunt...

How many parts on your car are custom made? I'm talking pipework especially here. Surely that is exactly the same.

I'm in total agreement with Matt. I don't no Bill, but he has offered advice before on cupra. Net and supplied with some stuff before now.


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## welly (Nov 12, 2010)

Matt B said:


> Now Doug is normally a pretty reasonable guy and I usually have great respect for his scientific approach to data analysis but on this occasion i think its got well out of hand.
> I would suggest you just agree to disagree.


He also seems to be incapable of having a laugh.... lol. I thought that picture was most entertaining - then again, I have an odd sense of humour.

I am happy to agree to disagree - I have one. I know it works. As do many many other people.


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## welly (Nov 12, 2010)

Doug Short said:


> Oh no, wait... You haven't been around long enough to realise that have you?


Yawn. And because I have 10 or whatever posts on this forum, I clearly know nothing at all.... :roll:


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## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

Guys lets not turn this thread into an arguement between a few of you. PM each other if you must.

The thread is to hopefully generate interest in the product. Its quite obvious Bill is very very knowledgeable and this forum most definitely needs people like him around.

I also think its good to have other SCN members on here as it does seem that you guys are a little ahead of the majority of TT owners when it comes to tuning mods, I know Tony has mentioned this before. It can only be a good thing to have your input on here.

Please lets get back on topic and all be friends


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## welly (Nov 12, 2010)

TT51 said:


> Guys lets not turn this thread into an arguement between a few of you. PM each other if you must.
> 
> The thread is to hopefully generate interest in the product. Its quite obvious Bill is very very knowledgeable and this forum most definitely needs people like him around.
> 
> ...


Agreed.


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## shshivji (Nov 25, 2009)

I honestly don't know how anyone can argue with A lad thats been in the VAG industry for almost 20 years. Its great having someone with extensive technical knowledge giving us advice and is also happy to show us evidence of his work. Cheers Bill for your patience and time you have spent here as its very much appreciated by me and allot of other TT owners and hopefully this saga hasn't put you off, as in my eyes you are needed in the forum.

Cheers

Shak


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## Diveratt (Aug 31, 2009)

stevecollier said:


> Deleted for a rethink.. :roll:
> Steve


If only life was so easy


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## ViperOneZero (Sep 4, 2008)

We have not even covered the product cost yet. I have seen the Torquesteer_net prices but hear that TT quotations are considerably more...... :lol:


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Yeah, BHP or Torque cost per £
Is it going to be worth it.
Steve


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## ViperOneZero (Sep 4, 2008)

stevecollier said:


> Yeah, BHP or Torque cost per £
> Is it going to be worth it.
> Steve


I have been informed the TT Badger 5 TIP £ is over £200 ( all bits )


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

GunnerGibson said:


> stevecollier said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, BHP or Torque cost per £
> ...


Oh, thats a good price, its about my average mod price on the V6.
Steve


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## ViperOneZero (Sep 4, 2008)

stevecollier said:


> GunnerGibson said:
> 
> 
> > stevecollier said:
> ...


lol

your an exception to the norm :lol:


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

erm..thanks..i think.. :lol: 
Steve


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## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

stevecollier said:


> erm..thanks..i think.. :lol:
> Steve


Steffi

You know if it had been me who said it, it would not have been a compliment :-* :-* :lol:

Charlene


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## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

GunnerGibson said:


> We have not even covered the product cost yet. I have seen the Torquesteer_net prices but hear that TT quotations are considerably more...... :lol:


Info I received from Bill

TIP pricing is as below: (copy pasted from my SCN forum trade section for consistency)

Quote:
PRICE:
£162.00 exc vat for blue/black natural finish, £169.50 exc vat for blue/black polished finish, +£7.50exc vat for red hoses
It can fit with OE Airbox if required, but you will need to trim the top 90' silicon elbow. Easier/advised fitment is with cone filter such as FR08001 type

Optional:
FR08001 filter - £45
FC08001 filter - £45

Prices are plus vat & Delivery
£9.50 delivery UK Mainland


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## ViperOneZero (Sep 4, 2008)

£212.30 delivered inclusive of VAT then.


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

UPDATE - So as mentioned earlier in the thread I purchased a Modshack Lathe Turned Aluminum MOFO & Neuspeed P-Flow Heatshield, however to fit the Badger 5 TIP & Jetex Cone Filter FR-08001 modifications needed to be done.




























When at Waks he was uncomfortable with fitting as was, so we stripped the air flow filters from the orignal MOFO and added these onto the Modshack.



















The Neuspeed P-Flow Heatshield needed to have approx 2" x 4" taken out (slightly angled), we marked these out and after a trip to a local engineer last week and £30 later, now have a heatshield able to accommodate the filter.




























Today at 'Syd's Chop Shop' we trimmed the TIP Top hose about 1 1/2" needed to be taken off the top and bottom










Pop it all togther and there you have it














































Should you get a Badger5 TIP? You decide.......there's been alot of negativity in this thread and I don't really know where it came from - it was proven elsewhere and I have proven gains from it in combination with the Jetex Cone Filter FR-08001 - not only more BHP & Torque, it sounds great too!

I'm on the rollers again at Awesome Tues so will see if there are any more gains since adding the Modshack Mofo and tweaking the map (although map tweak was primarily to get my EGTs and fueling right).

One thing, if you go for the Badger5 TIP & Jetex Cone Filter FR-08001 I strongly advise you to either do as I have, buy a Neuspeed P-Flow Heatshield & modify it as this will make the TIP solid as without there is abit of flex or you can go stealth and modify the oem airbox like an S3 owner did below


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

UPDATE - so car was in at Awesome today - few jobs and R/R - Tony had mentioned he and John had a Fuel System Purge to clean through, so not one to be left out had that done, new MAF (as Wak had suggested) and fit cold air feed that Alan & Al had recommended at my last visit.

I bought the kit from Auto Performance Online eBay store £24.95 + £5.95 delivery - went for 80mm

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330397025589&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Here's what I got










fitted you can just see it through lower grill










In situ



















Just tied it onto Neuspeed Heat Shield fixing for time being, going to get a little bracket made up










Finally the R/R - Recap on the numbers from 1st Feb after Badger5 TIP & Jetex Cone Filter FC08001

BHP 286.27 (Clutch) / Lb/FT Torque 319.29

Gain of (over Forge TIP, WAK Box & K & N Filter)

BHP 7.83 (Clutch) / Lb/FT Torque 11.68

Todays R/R

BHP 288.71 (Clutch) / Lb/FT Torque 333.82    

Since Feb I've added the Modshack TT HO 225 Lathe turned aluminum MOFO optimized for the 4 bar FPR and spent 11 hours a week last Sunday with Wak logging and tweaking map (it took 4 map amendments to get the balance of boost, fueling and the EGT's)

So there you have it! Will post up R/R Results tomorrow when can scan at work - going out for another quick blast!


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

Nice mods mate and a lovely looking engine bay to boot


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Great write up mate thank you


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

Thx guys, drove back to the coast this am so had chance to open her up a little     - Liquid backed up figures there or there abouts 286 BHP, (think new MAF helped!) Waks logs were between 285/287 BHP against R/R 288 BHP


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## bigsyd (Jul 9, 2008)

how did you get that matt, 3rd gear and floor it ???


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

bigsyd said:


> how did you get that matt, 3rd gear and floor it ???


Me and Barney were flat out  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## bigsyd (Jul 9, 2008)

lol me and linda will have to try that :lol: :lol: :lol: i will have a go at my bhp when the car is out, some good long straight roads around here, 3rd gear and smile lol


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

matt interested to see if bill is up for what you suggested the the other day... i'd gladly part with the cash and finally lay all this to rest... down at bills... belive we'd make it a mini rolling road meet so should be good... april would be good.


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> matt interested to see if bill is up for what you suggested the the other day... i'd gladly part with the cash and finally lay all this to rest... down at bills... belive we'd make it a mini rolling road meet so should be good... april would be good.


Emailing you....its a go Go, Johnny, Go, Go, Go, Go!


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## shshivji (Nov 25, 2009)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> matt interested to see if bill is up for what you suggested the the other day... i'd gladly part with the cash and finally lay all this to rest... down at bills... belive we'd make it a mini rolling road meet so should be good... april would be good.


I'll come to this  not to put my car on though, just for some support 

Shak


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

shshivji said:


> tony_rigby_uk said:
> 
> 
> > matt interested to see if bill is up for what you suggested the the other day... i'd gladly part with the cash and finally lay all this to rest... down at bills... belive we'd make it a mini rolling road meet so should be good... april would be good.
> ...


Will let you know once confirmed Shak


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

hey matt,

got your text, sorry i didn't reply, my laptop is playing up at the moment, and been mad bussy at work so not had chance to get on..

i'll check the e-mail shortly...

cheers


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## tgorman (May 2, 2010)

where did you get the neuspeed heat shield from ?
8)


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

tgorman said:


> where did you get the neuspeed heat shield from ?
> 8)


Awesome special order Mike sorted it for me - £70.85 Inc VAT if I remember rightly took 7 - 10 days to arrive


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## Smeds (Oct 28, 2009)

So how much is it?


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## Smeds (Oct 28, 2009)

Ignore me, found it on the first page of one of the links.


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

Smeds said:


> Ignore me, found it on the first page of one of the links.


if you are in gloucester, I am in stonehouse just down the road
GL10 2DG


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Doug Short said:


> I'm not searching for anything on any other forums. We're having the discussion here and the dispute is here, so pay TT Forum members the courtesy of putting the raw data here so we can assess it. If the 'proof' is out there, why should I spend hours searching other forums when you can spend seconds copying and pasting it up here.
> 
> Doug


 :lol:

Anyone that has got anywhere with their cars has spent hours searching teh net for review and opions and data, if you dont then dont winge because your too lazy, if you want everything on a plate then you have to pay for the privlidge.

Lazy [smiley=argue.gif]

Good work Bill, See you on 10th!


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

welly said:


> Charlie said:
> 
> 
> > welly said:
> ...


 :lol: I dont even bother much on here any more Welly. Stick to the REAL forums.

For those that dont know Welly is well regarded in the 1.8t world.


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

Hi Guys

PM'd/TXT'd people that had confirmed were coming to Badger5 tomorrow.

Sorry for late update - unfortunately we are having to re-arrange this - cancelling tomorrow meet.

I was at Syd this afternoon getting my boost guage fitted, all good - took for test drive and everything fine.

Then on way home lost all boost, sounded like hose popped off but nothing visible, no error codes, N75 ok but won't go above 3k revs / 0.5 bar so limped home - spoke to other guys and Bill and consensus was to re-arrange sorry all I'm gutted.

Will update you when we have a new date

Matt


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Sorry to hear your problems Matt hope its just a cheap fix


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

jamman said:


> Sorry to hear your problems Matt hope its just a cheap fix


I hope so too, was in at Awesome Monday for something else so hoping not major as it's the Fliegen BriTTen trip Friday :?


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

TTsline02 said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to hear your problems Matt hope its just a cheap fix
> ...


Nothing worse than a long drive and constantly worrying about your car kills the trip stone dead sure everything will be fine mate.


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

matt sounds like the hose for the gage has blown.. (if you used silicon it's probably been caught and split... this will be a bugger... better to whip the connection t peice out of the FPR and reconnect until you can run a new hose. should be fine if ya do that... although it may have hit limp mode.. although usually that has to be cleared to carry on..


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## bigsyd (Jul 9, 2008)

pipe is only about 12 inches long m8, and run where it can not get snagged


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

oh yeah yours is electrical and not mechanical... it could have blown off the measure or the FPR,

i'm sure it'll be pretty easy to find in daylight.. but watch it if it is your FPR hose, may run lean.. best to get it sorted than drive about with it causing a issue..

remember you don't have a N249 that can dump the turbo pressure.. (it's at times like this n249's will protect the car)


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

The N75 will dump pressure as well as I found when I was playing with my actuator :? 
That why my next mod is going to work around the N75


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

just one comment.. I personally would'nt use the fpr for splicing in anything.. FPR is too important to risk a leak/longer (laggier) pipe to feed it. airs compressable and stretchy too... so more pipe volume in that pipes circuit the less responsive to the vac/boost change, and the main thing is its risking leaks, and you dont want to run lean cos of a boost guage pipe leak!

Hope you get it sorted. unlucky dude.


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

badger5 said:


> just one comment.. I personally would'nt use the fpr for splicing in anything.. FPR is too important to risk a leak/longer (laggier) pipe to feed it. airs compressable and stretchy too... so more pipe volume in that pipes circuit the less responsive to the vac/boost change, and the main thing is its risking leaks, and you dont want to run lean cos of a boost guage pipe leak!
> 
> Hope you get it sorted. unlucky dude.


Hi Bill

Which pipe would you recommend you tap it into?

Just an update - my cars still in at Awesome, it turns out there was a 3" slit in one of the Forge hoses which was causing loss of boost, there's a couple of other things they are sorting which it was booked in for yesterday, so hopefully will get it back late this afternoon or tomorrow.......at least not something more serious, I did fear may be a Turbo issue...........

Matt


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## forgemotorsport (May 6, 2002)

If you have an issue with the Forge hoses please have Awesome contact us


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

forgemotorsport said:


> If you have an issue with the Forge hoses please have Awesome contact us


Will do


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## SAVTT240 (Mar 29, 2009)

badger5 said:


> just one comment.. I personally would'nt use the fpr for splicing in anything.. FPR is too important to risk a leak/longer (laggier) pipe to feed it. airs compressable and stretchy too... so more pipe volume in that pipes circuit the less responsive to the vac/boost change, and the main thing is its risking leaks, and you dont want to run lean cos of a boost guage pipe leak!
> 
> Hope you get it sorted. unlucky dude.


HI BILL,

Same again where would be best to pipe into for the boost gauge if not at the FPR ?
Am fitting mine very soon so would be handy to know.

Thanks.
Sav.

I am still going to get your tip fitted just as soon as matt sorts out another day for the meet.


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

I would use the feed which goes to the N249 as the tap point myself.


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

TTsline02 said:


> badger5 said:
> 
> 
> > just one comment.. I personally would'nt use the fpr for splicing in anything.. FPR is too important to risk a leak/longer (laggier) pipe to feed it. airs compressable and stretchy too... so more pipe volume in that pipes circuit the less responsive to the vac/boost change, and the main thing is its risking leaks, and you dont want to run lean cos of a boost guage pipe leak!
> ...


at least its just a pipe (phew), albeit pretty annoying to everyone affected by its demise.

which one? had it been rubbing on anything?
regards
bill


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## ian222 (May 4, 2007)

What type of sealant is needed? Does it come with the tip? Cheers


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## badger5 (Apr 19, 2003)

ian222 said:


> What type of sealant is needed? Does it come with the tip? Cheers


just a light smear of something like automotive sealant.. blue or red hylomar... its a smear at best,, the tip adaptor is only 0.1mm bigger than the turbo itself.. you could argue it does'nt need it at all given the fit.


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## everton5 (Dec 15, 2010)

Bill would u be willing to do a group buy on these please?


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## everton5 (Dec 15, 2010)

Would any1 else be interested?


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## Rich196 (Mar 31, 2011)

everton5 said:


> Would any1 else be interested?


 yes!!


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## everton5 (Dec 15, 2010)

Any more?


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## chisharpe (May 27, 2017)

how times change :lol:


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