# The Market Place



## ldhxvs

If you're selling TT parts, please post what TT the part belongs too or is compatible with. Also it is always good to include a picture if possible in the post and/or include a decent description along with condition of the item for sale. And of course edit the post when the item is sold to make it clear for everyone browsing that it is sold. Its a waste of my time reading and contacting you about an item that is not compatible with my tt and thus will never buy. And a waste of your time reading my PM about the item, sending a reply and getting your hopes up on a sale that will never happen because it is not compatible with my tt. :?


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## dox

Who are the best people to buy a TT from? An enthusiast? Log on to the enthusiasts forum only to find you can't view the adverts until you've posted enough shizzz........


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## Hoskyn

dox said:


> Who are the best people to buy a TT from? An enthusiast? Log on to the enthusiasts forum only to find you can't view the adverts until you've posted enough shizzz........


THIS. Although you can pay £5 for early access to it. the money helps fund the forum so it isn't too bad.


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## YELLOW_TT

Hoskyn said:


> dox said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the best people to buy a TT from? An enthusiast? Log on to the enthusiasts forum only to find you can't view the adverts until you've posted enough shizzz........
> 
> 
> 
> THIS. Although you can pay £5 for early access to it. the money helps fund the forum so it isn't too bad.
Click to expand...

The money doesn't help fund the forum the forum was sold to a Canidian company for around £200,000 a few years ago and makes tens of thousands for them every year


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## Hoskyn

YELLOW_TT said:


> Hoskyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dox said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the best people to buy a TT from? An enthusiast? Log on to the enthusiasts forum only to find you can't view the adverts until you've posted enough shizzz........
> 
> 
> 
> THIS. Although you can pay £5 for early access to it. the money helps fund the forum so it isn't too bad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The money doesn't help fund the forum the forum was sold to a Canidian company for around £200,000 a few years ago and makes tens of thousands for them every year
Click to expand...

Oh I see! Well that's nice to know before I went ahead with that! Would rather post more and donate £5 to the forum instead...


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## John-H

YELLOW_TT said:


> Hoskyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dox said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the best people to buy a TT from? An enthusiast? Log on to the enthusiasts forum only to find you can't view the adverts until you've posted enough shizzz........
> 
> 
> 
> THIS. Although you can pay £5 for early access to it. the money helps fund the forum so it isn't too bad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The money doesn't help fund the forum the forum was sold to a Canidian company for around £200,000 a few years ago and makes tens of thousands for them every year
Click to expand...




Hoskyn said:


> Oh I see! Well that's nice to know before I went ahead with that! Would rather post more and donate £5 to the forum instead...


To be clear - the £5 contribution does not go to the forum owners and is kept entirely separate. The £5 donation to the TT forum "fund" was set up as a pot of money available to compensate any member who suffers fraud in the market place and is entirely for forum member benefit. When we had instant free market access we also had instant fraudsters operating that we couldn't keep on top of. The very modest £5 payment provides proof of identity so safe instant access, a members' fund, plus gets you window stickers.

The forum owners don't touch this but they have however contributed to us in the cost of equipment such as flags etc for member events from the money they make from selling advertising which is their business. So they have helped members.

By the way, that figure you quoted for sale of the forum is entirely incorrect Andy. If the owners did make £10k a year from advertising it would take them 20 years to make it back at that price - it wouldn't be a viable business proposition. That inflated number was made up and put about for political mischief reasons. When I told Jae about it he laughed and said I wish!


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## 1234567891011twelve

Doesn't this mean that if you end up filling up the forum with vapid posts because people are trying to get marketplace access?

Why not tell people how long they have to wait or how many posts they need?

If you want to scam someone you can still do this, but please pay £5 first?


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## John-H

1234567891011twelve said:


> Doesn't this mean that if you end up filling up the forum with vapid posts because people are trying to get marketplace access?
> 
> Why not tell people how long they have to wait or how many posts they need?
> 
> If you want to scam someone you can still do this, but please pay £5 first?


Some valid concerns but from an overall perspective what we've done gives a good protective balance and provides benefit. It's summarised and explained in the pink rules but to expand on the points you raise ...

There is a tendency to post vapid posts to gain entry but the idea is to make it difficult for a casual fraudster to gain instant access so they go elsewhere. Previously we could ban them once the fraud was reported but they could create another instant account and start again - it was too easy. Frauds were committed via PM and delaying their access to this was key. It's just a shame their dishonesty affects other honest people.

If we see someone rapidly posting a smiley face, say, on every thread then we can remove them. We don't disclose how many posts as that encourages a target - it's not fixed anyway. The small £5 payment provides instant access but importantly a payment trail, so if a fraud is still committed the identifying details can be passed onto the police etc. We've done this and they do take action and we've recovered money for members. If we can't then we have a fund to help a victim. The stickers help promote our forum. It all works and the community benefits.

The vast majority of members are decent and honest and naturally contribute to this community and we want to protect them and encourage a safe, friendly and helpful environment. Nothing is perfect but it strikes a good balance.


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## 1234567891011twelve

Hi John

Thanks for the reply
Perhaps you can clear up a few things for me?

I can see the payment trail makes sense.(Amusing that a fraudster would use His or Her traceable account details.)

It would be nice to know that for example you need to be signed up for at least a month or two then you can get access to the market place.

I am considering the £5 but I'm not sure if I want to....

I cant be sure what is actually on offer in the market place as I cant see it.

I might be more inclined to pay if I could see what's available and then was asked to pay before being able to contact any sellers or send PMs

I think I will wait and see how long it really takes to be allowed in. 
Has anyone on here actually done that? or has everyone paid up?

Has anyone had majour issues with a TT purchased from here?
Has anyone bought one through Ebay and been stung? or found a Ebay gem?
How long do you have to be a member before being able to advertise your car on here? can you pay £5 and sell your lemon?
Do you have to pay extra to advertise? or submit an undisclosed number of posts?


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## Spandex

Just bear in mind that there's no reason why a car advertised here will be any better than one advertised elsewhere. There are people on here who maintain their car meticulously and there are people on here who struggle to afford £200 cheapo Ebay coilovers, whilst neglecting basic repairs. The only advantage I see of buying a forum car is that you can look through the sellers posts to try to get an idea which camp they fall into. And that only works if they post a lot about their car.

In addition to the above, it's very likely that most of the cars in the forum marketplace are also advertised elsewhere (because the forum isn't really a good place to sell a car - most of the potential audience for your advert already have a TT, remember).


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## YELLOW_TT

Spandex said:


> Just bear in mind that there's no reason why a car advertised here will be any better than one advertised elsewhere. There are people on here who maintain their car meticulously and there are people on here who struggle to afford £200 cheapo Ebay coilovers, whilst neglecting basic repairs. The only advantage I see of buying a forum car is that you can look through the sellers posts to try to get an idea which camp they fall into. And that only works if they post a lot about their car.
> 
> In addition to the above, it's very likely that most of the cars in the forum marketplace are also advertised elsewhere (because the forum isn't really a good place to sell a car - most of the potential audience for your advert already have a TT, remember).


I know at least one guy who had a TT repossessed he had bought from the forum as it was sold with out standing finance on it


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## Hoggy

YELLOW_TT said:


> I know at least one guy who had a TT repossessed he had bought from the forum as it was sold with out standing finance on it


Hi, Should have had it HPI'd. where ever a car is purchased. As usual, Buyer beware.
Hoggy.


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## YELLOW_TT

Hoggy said:


> YELLOW_TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know at least one guy who had a TT repossessed he had bought from the forum as it was sold with out standing finance on it
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, Should have had it HPI'd. where ever a car is purchased. As usual, Buyer beware.
> Hoggy.
Click to expand...

Correct but because it was for sale by a well known member (at the time) on here he let his guard down and didn't HPI it


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## 1234567891011twelve

It would be interesting to know how many people have paid the £5
How often the Fund has paid out?
How much has accumulated in this account over what period?
When was the last time it was used to help a victim of fraud?

Think of it as a public audit or public accountability. Transparency is the popular term.
(I'm guessing this will not be disclosed and if it isn't why not?)

If there is such a problem why not get shot of the Market place and concentrate on the forum, leaving
the complete issue of Fraud to sales arenas such as classified ads, Auto Trader, Ebay etc.

It seems to me that it would make the most sense to ditch the £5 fee, and ditch the market place altogether.
That way this site loses the £5 fee but also all the hassle of buying/selling and fraud/scams etc.

If all the cars are advertised elsewhere and those places don't charge a £5 fraudster fee then why would you pay it here?


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## Spandex

1234567891011twelve said:


> If all the cars are advertised elsewhere and those places don't charge a £5 fraudster fee then why would you pay it here?


Because the marketplace sells more than just cars.

My advice is (if you don't want to pay £5 or post enough to get access) to buy your car through the normal classified sites, come on here and post the inevitable questions as you fix all the little niggles, then by the time you're looking for parts/mods, you'll probably have access to the marketplace where you might find what you're looking for.


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## 1234567891011twelve

If all the 'Things' are advertised elsewhere and those places don't charge a £5 fraudster fee then why would you pay it here?

This still doesn't address my other questions? Any moderators care to comment?

I want to know what is covered if I am a victim of Fraud. What is the procedure? How much is available in the fund?

Is there a maximum payout figure? what are the clauses?

If I 'probably' get access to the market place after waiting and posting then I buy an item
am I covered if I am a victim of fraud even though I have not paid my £5?

Who is in charge of making the payout decisions and when was the last time the fund was invoked?


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## 1234567891011twelve

Also
If you are a member with access to the market place.

Do you think it is useful?
Have you purchased anything from there?


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## Hoggy

1234567891011twelve said:


> Also
> If you are a member with access to the market place.
> 
> Do you think it is useful?
> Have you purchased anything from there?


Hi, Very useful, Have saved many £s. alarm, armrest, forge caps, 2nd liquid TT, Vent holder forTomTom, Net for boot, but you have to be quick & check frequently.
Although I've been on TTF for 14 years & didn't have to pay I still paid my £5.
Hoggy.


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## 1234567891011twelve

Ever been a victim of fraud or know anyone who has and had a pay out?


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## Hoggy

1234567891011twelve said:


> Ever been a victim of fraud or know anyone who has and had a pay out?


Hi, Not a payout as such but lots of help to resolve the money situation. Not me though.
Hoggy.


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## ZephyR2

1234567891011twelve said:


> Ever been a victim of fraud or know anyone who has and had a pay out?


Many years ago on another car forum where one member took a tenner off a number of us for LEDs to be made up. But none of us ever saw them. :?


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## Spandex

1234567891011twelve said:


> If all the 'Things' are advertised elsewhere and those places don't charge a £5 fraudster fee then why would you pay it here?


I'm not sure all the 'things' *are* advertised elsewhere. The cars almost certainly are though, because a forum full of TT owners isn't the best place to sell a TT. It is, however, a good place to sell TT parts. I think quite a few sellers list parts on here first, and only if it doesn't sell will they stick it on eBay.

I don't think there's anything wrong with asking for transparency around the fraud fund (and I don't think John will have any problem providing it) but it seems to me that you're not just doing 'due diligence' before you pay up - you're actually looking for problems with the fund because you don't like the whole idea.

Are you genuinely planning on paying up once you get satisfactory answers?


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## 1234567891011twelve

Actually, I quite like the idea.


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## 1234567891011twelve

I can see why the fraud fund and market place access have evolved this way. (So far no one has come forward or mentioned anyone having been reimbursed for fraudulent activity on this site)

I asked the questions because I would like the answers.

Also sometimes things need changing but it takes a fresh viewpoint to engage the discussion.
I think it's easy to give/get the wrong impression by just reading a few lines of text. 
I also think that this forum is a great resource.
Anyone else have an opinion?


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## 1234567891011twelve

Ok


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## Graham H

Hi the last thing I want to do is upset anybody , and I apologise if I do but most clubs have rules and regulation , we all have a choice if you want to join the club you have to abide by the rules if you don't like the rules don't join , I'm an old geezer new to TT and I think the forum is brilliant I have learnt a lot from it I paid my £5 and can look at everything , we all have a choice , :wink:  Graham H


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## ProjectMick

Well it is technically a donation. You don't have to pay it, just participate for long enough and you will get the access. Personally I looked at it as more of a joining fee and the info I have gathered from the site is well worth that outlay.

Personal opinion of course and I totally understand if someone didn't want to pay it.


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## jamman

1234567891011twelve said:


> Ok


Just leave what you put originally :wink: :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll:


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## 1234567891011twelve

I managed to click 'edit' instead of 'Quote'


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## 1234567891011twelve

However you choose to 'personally' think of the £5 fee.
It is not a joining fee. 
I would still like to hear some of my points addressed.


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## John-H

Hello, sorry, been a bit distracted with the various stuff of life like building bathrooms, politics and accidents but there were go.

The protection provided by the fund is discretionary. It's not a contract as that would be insurance, which it isn't, which is regulated and not something we can get into for legal reasons. Basically if someone gets ripped off or there is a dispute we do our damndest to resolve the issue by talking to the parties and trying to persuade a satisfactory resolution. Most of the time it's resolved quickly as people don't want the hassle and embarrassment if they want to be part of the community. Sometimes it takes longer and occasionally we have had to involve the police or solicitors etc - this is very rare and was a particular problem when fraudsters had instant access to the market place and PM system - it was quick and easy pickings. We could ban them but they rejoined with a different account. We stopped that with a delay to full access and the changes were supported by a member vote. If we can't resolve the issue when all persuasion and legal efforts have failed then we have, at our discretion, the means of providing a member compensation for their loss providing funds allow. This has been called upon - it's rare because of the efforts we put into resolving these issues but it's there if needed. The fund needs to be self supporting as it needs to cover the cost of window sticker printing, postage and other costs etc for member benefit. We try to keep a reasonable balance available but we can't cover huge outlay such as a whole vehicle cost but smaller items can be covered. Basically we do our best to provide a friendly protected environment for members which benefits the community. It's only a fiver which gets you stickers to adorn car and show you are part of the forum and help promot the community. You also get our thanks for your support and help if you ever need it. The compensation pot was an idea suggested by Gazzer a long while back and the window stickers were included to help promote the community and add to the experience of being part of it. It's all independent of the forum owners and run by volunteers. It's not compulsory it's just a fund for all members' benefit whether they've contributed or not.


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## 1234567891011twelve

John

Many thanks for taking the time to reply and address some of the points.

I can see that the fund has to cover costs, such as sticker printing and postage.

It should definitely state the limit / value of goods that are covered by the fraud fund and clearly say that it wont run to covering the cost of a vehicle.

I clearly want to have the marketplace access and I have considered paying the £5 admission fee.

I also would like to see how long it takes to gain entry by patience (mostly because it says -it wont take long and its free)


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## 1234567891011twelve

I wonder how long it will take?
I wonder if I've posted enough?
Time will tell.....


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## 1234567891011twelve

I wonder when the last time anyone was allowed market place access without paying? 
How many posts? and How long will it take?

Anyone want to place a bet?


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## Shug750S

1234567891011twelve said:


> I wonder how long it will take?
> I wonder if I've posted enough?
> Time will tell.....


Seems variable, and based on the quality and number of posts.

Helps if you're good looking and intelligent. Many in here got it in days or hours.. :lol:


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## 1234567891011twelve

Ok, so maybe its the quality of my posts?

Wrong type of questions perhaps?


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## ZephyR2

I guess someone who just puts up a load of posts saying LOL or +1 isn't going to get on very quickly.

Sent from my iPhone so this is what Autocorrect thinks I mean.


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## 1234567891011twelve

LOL


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## Stiff

1234567891011twelve said:


> LOL


+1


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## ZephyR2

Actually I believe you get points deducted for just posting LOL or +1. :lol:


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## 1234567891011twelve

I am beginning to lose any hope of actually being allowed access into the market place without paying.

I would like to know when the last person who didn't pay was admitted.

I get the feeling that no one has been let in since the £5 instant access was brought in.

By all means let me in and prove me wrong.....LOL

+1


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## 1234567891011twelve

How long to go before they will give me access?

Sweepstake anyone?

LOL


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## ross_t_boss

What secrets are hidden away in the market place? I feel like I should pay £5 just to get access, when I don't even have a TT... Perhaps there's exclusive well modified TTRS's for sale there at ludicrously low prices 

Having seen folks get screwed on other forums I can understand the logic behind this, not too much the scamming side but more the incompetent fuckwits that sell scrap as 'like new' and genuinely seem to think that's reasonable. Sadly I expect they'd all put a fiver in to be part of a community which would make them feel even more justified in peddling scrap, and then get defensive when someone calls them out on it.

My bitterness stems from a £400 'as new' RS2 exhaust manifold... it was fully of subtle cracks and leaked like crazy. The one I removed at 170k miles was far better. Fortunately it wasn't too long after Wagner released one so I took it on the chin.


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## John-H

Not on our forum :wink:


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## briggy

I paid my £5 yesterday afternoon, but still don't have access. How long does it take?

Cheers,
Bryan


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## John-H

briggy said:


> I paid my £5 yesterday afternoon, but still don't have access. How long does it take?
> 
> Cheers,
> Bryan


Hi Bryan,

Thanks for the contribution. I usually catch it quicker but was at AITP show yesterday and it probably coincided with packing stuff away. I didn't get home until late but catching up now!

You have full forum and PM access and I'll get stickers off to you later on 

Cheers,
John


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## briggy

John-H said:


> briggy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I paid my £5 yesterday afternoon, but still don't have access. How long does it take?
> 
> Cheers,
> Bryan
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Bryan,
> 
> Thanks for the contribution. I usually catch it quicker but was at AITP show yesterday and it probably coincided with packing stuff away. I didn't get home until late but catching up now!
> 
> You have full forum and PM access and I'll get stickers off to you later on
> 
> Cheers,
> John
Click to expand...

Thanks John.

Well worth the £5 as I've now put a deposit on one of the ones for sale only on this forum. The seller listed almost everything a buyer is likely to ask, rather than most of the adverts in the outside world.

I'll post some pictures etc in a separate topic, one I've collected it.

Cheers,
Bryan


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## John-H

Brill


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## Gazzer

John-H said:


> Hello, sorry, been a bit distracted with the various stuff of life like building bathrooms, politics and accidents but there were go.
> 
> The protection provided by the fund is discretionary. It's not a contract as that would be insurance, which it isn't, which is regulated and not something we can get into for legal reasons. Basically if someone gets ripped off or there is a dispute we do our damndest to resolve the issue by talking to the parties and trying to persuade a satisfactory resolution. Most of the time it's resolved quickly as people don't want the hassle and embarrassment if they want to be part of the community. Sometimes it takes longer and occasionally we have had to involve the police or solicitors etc - this is very rare and was a particular problem when fraudsters had instant access to the market place and PM system - it was quick and easy pickings. We could ban them but they rejoined with a different account. We stopped that with a delay to full access and the changes were supported by a member vote. If we can't resolve the issue when all persuasion and legal efforts have failed then we have, at our discretion, the means of providing a member compensation for their loss providing funds allow. This has been called upon - it's rare because of the efforts we put into resolving these issues but it's there if needed. The fund needs to be self supporting as it needs to cover the cost of window sticker printing, postage and other costs etc for member benefit. We try to keep a reasonable balance available but we can't cover huge outlay such as a whole vehicle cost but smaller items can be covered. Basically we do our best to provide a friendly protected environment for members which benefits the community. It's only a fiver which gets you stickers to adorn car and show you are part of the forum and help promot the community. You also get our thanks for your support and help if you ever need it. The compensation pot was an idea suggested by Gazzer a long while back and the window stickers were included to help promote the community and add to the experience of being part of it. It's all independent of the forum owners and run by volunteers. It's not compulsory it's just a fund for all members' benefit whether they've contributed or not.


Wow John you recall our convos.....im impressed sir


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## John-H

Gazzer said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello, sorry, been a bit distracted with the various stuff of life like building bathrooms, politics and accidents but there were go.
> 
> The protection provided by the fund is discretionary. It's not a contract as that would be insurance, which it isn't, which is regulated and not something we can get into for legal reasons. Basically if someone gets ripped off or there is a dispute we do our damndest to resolve the issue by talking to the parties and trying to persuade a satisfactory resolution. Most of the time it's resolved quickly as people don't want the hassle and embarrassment if they want to be part of the community. Sometimes it takes longer and occasionally we have had to involve the police or solicitors etc - this is very rare and was a particular problem when fraudsters had instant access to the market place and PM system - it was quick and easy pickings. We could ban them but they rejoined with a different account. We stopped that with a delay to full access and the changes were supported by a member vote. If we can't resolve the issue when all persuasion and legal efforts have failed then we have, at our discretion, the means of providing a member compensation for their loss providing funds allow. This has been called upon - it's rare because of the efforts we put into resolving these issues but it's there if needed. The fund needs to be self supporting as it needs to cover the cost of window sticker printing, postage and other costs etc for member benefit. We try to keep a reasonable balance available but we can't cover huge outlay such as a whole vehicle cost but smaller items can be covered. Basically we do our best to provide a friendly protected environment for members which benefits the community. It's only a fiver which gets you stickers to adorn car and show you are part of the forum and help promot the community. You also get our thanks for your support and help if you ever need it. The compensation pot was an idea suggested by Gazzer a long while back and the window stickers were included to help promote the community and add to the experience of being part of it. It's all independent of the forum owners and run by volunteers. It's not compulsory it's just a fund for all members' benefit whether they've contributed or not.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow John you recall our convos.....im impressed sir
Click to expand...

I do indeed Gary. It was an inspired idea you had. The stickers gave it a vehicle and something to feel part of and it's all win win and safe with your pot idea. Good to see you are back. Are you coming to the ADI this year?


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## 1234567891011twelve

LOL


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## MeGaMaN

1234567891011twelve said:


> LOL


Did this guy ever get the access he so desperately desired or did he take the £5 on the chin? :lol:


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## Hoggy

MeGaMaN said:


> 1234567891011twelve said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Did this guy ever get the access he so desperately desired or did he take the £5 on the chin? :lol:
Click to expand...

Hi, Once they stopped stirring it I gave access, but haven't posted since & that was over a year ago. :roll: 
Hoggy.


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## 1234567891011twelve

For the record. I'm still here.


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## Jam13

just read this thread, :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## 1234567891011twelve

LOL


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## 1234567891011twelve

Just re-read this thread


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## Iceblue

So have you enjoyed your access to the market place and was it worth the fiver


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## silverbug

Can someone allow me access to the Market Place please?
Been registered a while now but still can't get into it....
Thanks!


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## Hoggy

silverbug said:


> Can someone allow me access to the Market Place please?
> Been registered a while now but still can't get into it....
> Thanks!


Hi, Keep checking :wink: 
Hoggy.


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## silverbug

Hoggy said:


> silverbug said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone allow me access to the Market Place please?
> Been registered a while now but still can't get into it....
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, Keep checking :wink:
> Hoggy.
Click to expand...

Thanks


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## 1234567891011twelve

Is it worth a fiver?......In a word no....and for the record Im glad I didnt pay it :lol:


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## Iceblue

1234567891011twelve said:


> Is it worth a fiver?......In a word no....and for the record Im glad I didnt pay it :lol:


It probably cost you 100 pounds in time bitching about it :lol:


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## EG-nath

1234567891011twelve said:


> Is it worth a fiver?......In a word no....and for the record Im glad I didnt pay it :lol:


you mean theres not loads of silly cheap forum discounted parts for sale? 

bummer, i was just looking into the market place restriction :?


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## 1234567891011twelve

Nope, I mean what I said.


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## John-H

1234567891011twelve said:


> Nope, I mean what I said.


But we hide the good stuff from you :wink:


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## 1234567891011twelve

Ha Ha...very clever! Had me fooled.


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