# Clutch Swap



## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

I'm changing Shell's clutch this weekend...just after a couple of pointers before doing it from anyone thats done it before if anyone can help me please....

1.) Is it safe to re-use the old flywheel & clutch bolts or is it better to get new ones? What torque are they done upto?

2.) I presume I will need to split the transfer box off - is there any seals you need to replace here & will I get transmission fluid loss?

3.) Anybody got anything else worth mentionning - is there an online how to guide anywhere or a PDF I can print out?

Edit - Just found a guide for an R32 clutch removal which cant be that much different...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4045505

Audi reckon around 7 hours to do (Above guide says 3hrs!) - does this sound feasible?

Many thanks for any help guys. :mrgreen:


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

Had a look at my bentley for you 

This is for a 1.8t Dual mass

flywheel bolts to be replaced new if removed

special star drive bolts it says do not use air tools hand removal only !

stage 1 60Nm (44ft - lb)
stage 2 1/4 turn 90 deg

small bolts

m6 10ft - lb 13nm
m7 15ft - lb 20nm
m8 16ft - lb 22 nm

hope this helps if you need more let me know


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Bloody hell, I want to stay friendly with you Nick


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## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

Nick....your a diamond - thanks very much!!!

Small bolts I presume are the cover plate to flywheel?

Star-shaped are the flywheel to crank?

What are you referring to when you say 'Bentley' - coz Bentley's never came with 1.8T engines in them!!! LOL!

Do you have any part numbers for bolts or seals please? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Lee


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## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

Using http://www.vagcat.com I've found a couple of part numbers - hopefully will help people in the future too...

Cover -> Flywheel Bolts - N90308605 (not sure how many yet - probably 6 again)
Clutch Release Bearing Bolts - N90167801 x 3
Flywheel -> Crankshaft Bolts - N90665001 x 6
Rear Crank Seal & Flange - 06A103171A (appears that you cant just get the inner seal on its own)
Transfer Box Shaft O-Ring - 01M323255

Will update with prices etc once they've been bought.


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## T3RBO (Dec 9, 2003)

shell said:


> What are you referring to when you say 'Bentley' - coz Bentley's never came with 1.8T engines in them!!! LOL!


Bentley Publishers make a workshop/service manual for the TT (similar to the Haynes brand)

http://www.bentleypublishers.com/images ... cement.pdf


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

Bentley is THE only book for the TT DIY person 

see .......

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Audi-TT-Ser...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242818705&sr=8-1

expensive for a book but you can get them on ebay too sometimes

way above a haynes this book is about 2 inches thick and covers most things

but it is made for the US market so take that into consideration

I paid around £50 for mine from ebay around a year ago when I first got my TT

that and a vagcom are essintial if you plan on diy repairs imo 

yes there are 6 flywheel bolts and you will need the special star socket that goes with them

there is no mention of any locking compound used but somtimes bolts have it pre appied

yes the small bolts are on the pressure plate cover and stuff

glad to be of help


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## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

Aaaah.....that would be handy to have a copy of - will look into it - thanks dude!!

The book is cheap considering the labour costs you would save in the long run.

I've already got VAGCOM too!!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

This is a good manual for the Audi TT, lots of pictures and great detail. 
Way better that any Haynes Manual which you can't get for an Audi TT anyway

book title is

Audi TT Service Manual 2000-2006: 1.8L Turbo, 3.2L, inc. Roadster and Quattro

Paperback: 978 pages 
Publisher: Bentley Publishers; illustrated edition edition (23 Feb 2007) 
Language English 
ISBN-10: 0837615003 
ISBN-13: 978-0837615004

I got mine a week or so BEFORE I bought my tt as I had to decide on the 3.2 or 225 turbo

and went for the 225 turbo in the end due to lots of DSG horror stories on here :wink:

and I prefer MT anyway

Good luck with the cluch change BTW and let us know how you get on BFN nick ..........


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## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

Agreed it does look very good!!! I've added it to Shell's shopping list!! LOL!

Could I possibly be cheeky and ask what your book reckons the timescales are to do the clutch - and is that guide I found close to the actual job?

Thanks again Nick - I will let you know after the weekend how we got on.


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## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

Ordered all the parts needed now hopefully.....and I think I managed to wangle everything at trade price too....good bloody job considering the rear seal/flange was £44+VAT!!

Apparently they stopped doing just the seal alone 6 or so years ago as they had a load of warranty claims due to people incorrectly installing the rubber seals so now they dont supply them separately....ah well peace of mind & all that!!

8) 8) 8)


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

Just got in and had another look at the bentley [smiley=book2.gif] 
and it does not state a time for the job :? 
but I would allow a day as you need to remove the gbox ect
around 6 hours at a guess depending on your tools and ability
and the great british weather [smiley=bigcry.gif]

I dare say somone who has done the job will be along soon 

all the best Nick :wink:


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## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

Yeh...sounds about right I suppose!! Thanks!

Weather doesnt affect me - I've got a snug lockup complete with a set of 2 poster ramps!  

Lee


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## redsi72 (Nov 13, 2006)

I had an oil leak from the spigot shaft seal so replaced that £3 audi
Audi say gearbox is sealed for life, oil change not required. Bollox! change it while the box is off, much easier.
Measure or mark the gear selector cable lenght before yor unclip it. I didnt it it took a bit of trial and error before I got gears selecting correctly :roll: 
It took me the best part of a saterday from start to finish. Ours is a quattro which makes it a bit more harder.
You will need brake fluid and an assistant to help bleed the system. I would change the slave unit.
Front nearside wheel, dont forget to remove the light level linkages.

got to go.....will have a think and add to post


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## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

Yeh got a brand new slave to go in.

Gear selectors - I'm sure they are on a balljoint so I'll just pop them off from there.

Will get a shaft spigot seal whilst I'm at TPS today - hopefully they'll be in stock.

Do the TTs use DOT4 or DOT5 in their braking/clutch systems?

Thanks mate.


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

shell said:


> Yeh got a brand new slave to go in.
> 
> Gear selectors - I'm sure they are on a balljoint so I'll just pop them off from there.
> 
> ...


99% its dot 4 but 5 is better if you are going to replace the lot 4 if topping up !

someone will correct me if wrong =)


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## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

Well....what a nightmare of a job so far!!!! It was all going swimmingly until I came to separate the transfer box from the gearbox!!! One of the allen bolts is a RIGHT mare to get to!!! But after a couple of hours of persistance I finally got to it & got the little bugger off!! Least I'll be able to do it a damn sight quicker if I get asked to do another one! LOL

Then after that it was fairly plain sailing, that box is a bit of a heavy bugger though....good job I'd gone out & bought a transmission jack!

I believe I have found why the clutch was slipping prematurely......weeping gearbox spigot shaft seal had contaminated the clutch (top marks to redsi72 for recommending I replace this seal). I ordered one of these seals when I went & picked the rest of the parts up this morning so it will be in tomorrow morning thankfully - dont want it weeping all over her new bling Sachs clutch.

Fluid loss certainly did occur from the gearbox when the transfer box was removed....so I'll get new gearbox oil tomorrow & do a full change on that - good for peace of mind anyway.

Few pics as to where we are upto as of tonight.....

Evidence of weeping gearbox seal..

















Old Clutch - note its not actually that worn really..









Pile of parts...









Somethings definitely missing from this hole...









Looking after the patient with bubble wrap...









....and how shes been left for the night with my next job underneath her..

















Hopefully finish it tomorrow providing all the parts arrive as promised from TPS.

Lee :mrgreen:


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## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

Major fail on the part of TPS (Trade Part Specialists) thats really thrown a spanner into the works - the flywheel bolts & clutch cover bolts HAVENT arrived despite me ordering them on Wednesday! So the car is unfortunately now off the road until the middle of next week when they've promised me they will be in!!!

Annoyed is NOT the word!!!


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## redsi72 (Nov 13, 2006)

subframe and pendulum support bracket bolts are stretch bolts, are you changing them as well. All wheel alignment will be needed. Its easier to replenish the box with fresh oil before you re-install it.

Si


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## GRE608Y (Oct 2, 2008)

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread as i'll be replacing my gearbox and clutch in the next couple of weeks. Luckily i've got a good friend who's a mechanic but I'll be giving him a hand when I can. He's never done a TT gearbox before so it'll be fun! He mentioned he'd need a very long allen key to remove a bolt? Is this a special tool that will need to be purchased? Can anyone shed any light on this?
Thanks, and good luck with the completion of the job Lee


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## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

Well....some good news - 3hrs later & 150miles & I now have all the parts needed to complete the job! LOL!

Phoned the next nearest TPS which was in Stockport & thankfully they had everything I needed in stock but shut at 1pm !! So off we went on a mission! 

Going to concentrate on wrestling the box into place after a bite to eat then finish bolting everything up tomorrow morning I think.



redsi72 said:


> subframe and pendulum support bracket bolts are stretch bolts, are you changing them as well. All wheel alignment will be needed. Its easier to replenish the box with fresh oil before you re-install it.
> Si


I noticed they were stretch bolts on the guide and I had ordered them but unfortunately neither of the branches of TPS had them, but thats not mega important as I've had them out on my Bora about 3 or 4 times & they have been fine. Will get them at a later stage & whack em in! Going to fill the gearbox with oil when its in because the oil gallery that appears feeds the transfer box seems to enjoy leaking out all over me and would rather not waste it whilst I'm jugging the box around!!! lol



GRE608Y said:


> He mentioned he'd need a very long allen key to remove a bolt? Is this a special tool that will need to be purchased? Can anyone shed any light on this?


The very long allen key he is referring to is for the bolt that goes through the centre of the driveshaft flange and into the transferbox. I'll take a picture of what I used for you later when I put it back together!!

The awkward allen bolt is the one underneath the turbo support - again I'll try and get a picture later if my patience allows me to!

More updates later hopefully!!!


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## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

Well the gearbox is back on eventually - again not the easier box I've ever put back on but still! LOL! She drew blood too....but thats only cos Shell swiped me with a crowbar when I was torquing up the flywheel bolts - ah well!!! :lol:

Couple more pics...

New spigot shaft gearbox seal..









New rear crank seal & flange...(wasnt anything wrong with the old one to be honest but its peace of mind!)









New Slave cylinder in & inside the bellhousing given a quick clean up...









Box ready to go back in...









...and fitted in place..









For some reason I completely forgot to take a pic of the clutch fitted before the box went on!!! Never mind!! Its a nice spangley new Sachs organic uprated jobbie thats gone in - ready for a bit more power should/when she decide to upgrade.

Once I've finished the job I'm going to do a full breakdown on parts you will/might need to do a clutch swap on a 6speed 225TT including part numbers & prices - not sure if you want to put in in a separate place on the forum perhaps if its of any use to others in the future - I know it would of saved me alot of research!!

Will finish it tomorrow providing nothing goes wrong...touch wood!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## GRE608Y (Oct 2, 2008)

good work that man! do you mind me asking where you got the organic sachs from and how much it was?


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## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

Thanks bud.....Sachs clutch & slave cylinder was £561.20 inc VAT & delivery from JBS. It was the cheapest I could find it anywhere for Shell.

Just having some breakfast then back to it again!!  

Lee


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## Hark (Aug 23, 2007)

shell said:


> Thanks bud.....Sachs clutch & slave cylinder was £561.20 inc VAT & delivery from JBS. It was the cheapest I could find it anywhere for Shell.
> 
> Just having some breakfast then back to it again!!
> 
> Lee


Seeing this thread shows why the labour costs for a clutch change are so high. Good luck, your a braver man than me lol


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

Top Man the price breakdown and parts / price

list Will be well worth keeping and save others

a lot of hassle nice one Lee :wink:

IF my clutch ever goes I will get Midland VW to do it  
as I am getting too old to mess around under cars
now :?


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## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

Decided to have a day off yesterday, weather was tooo nice to ignore!!

Back on it again today!!! :wink:


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## S3SteveW (Jan 27, 2007)

Hi mate, im half way through doing the clutch and flywheel on my S3. It would be finished if GSF hadnt given me the wrong flywheel. Can i ask why you removed the transfer box? Does it make Gearbox refitment easier? If so i might remove mine before refitting.


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## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

S3SteveW said:


> Hi mate, im half way through doing the clutch and flywheel on my S3. It would be finished if GSF hadnt given me the wrong flywheel. Can i ask why you removed the transfer box? Does it make Gearbox refitment easier? If so i might remove mine before refitting.


Steve - removed it as it makes it a little easier to manouvere around. I did actually wonder if it was possible to do without de-attaching the transfer box but for the sake of 5 extra bolts (which once you've done them a couple of times they are easy to get to!!!) I decided just to whip it out. Plus it makes the box a little lighter to lift back onto the transmission jack! LOL!

Right....onto todays activities....and believe me - theres been ALOT of activities today....lots of negatives & eventually lots of positives too!!!

Started today at 10am with the box back in place - so in theory I just needed to bolt everything back up in place etc & it was happy days...how wrong was I!!! LOL

Anyway....got everything back together again......then got my beautiful garage assistant Shell to hop in the car so I could bleed the clutch system - which I did - no air (it seemed) in the system. Everything was going well. Battery tray back in, battery in (car was still on the ramps a few inches off the deck). Asked Shell to start her up & go through the gears slowly for me. Well this was where the first fail happened - with the engine running she couldnt get any gears. If she stopped the engine & started it in first gear the hubs would turn & the speedo would register a reading even with the clutch pedal full depressed. So I jumped in & was a little more energetic with the gearstick, I was able to just put it into gear & go through the gears but it was very stiff & I could actually do it without using the clutch pedal - something somewhere was fundementally wrong here!!

I decided to go with the theory that the hydraulic clutch system still had air in it - so I then tried to pressure bleed the system...unfortunately to no avail - seemed to make absolutely no difference whatsoever. So I resigned myself to the fact that there was something amiss with the mechanicals somewhere.

So............a decision was made to remove the gearbox again (Shell wasnt best pleased!!). 2 hours later & it was off, together with the clutch & I was measuring old vs new equipment to see if anything was obvious.

Then I found it.....I put the new Sachs clutch plate on the gearbox spline to make sure it ran up & down it freely....well...it didnt...far from it infact!! It got part way down the shaft & stopped. After a bit of gentle persuasion & around an hour or so sliding it up & down the shaft with the aid of copper grease & taking it off and moving it onto the next spline along until I'd gone all the way around the shaft and tested it etc it seemed to be alot happier.

I also wasnt convinced that the slave cylinder hadnt bled properly (I wanted to cover all angles before re-fitting)....so I removed it from the box & fitted it in the engine bay to test it. This time when I bled it (I used 2 large spring clamps to simulate the clutch cover plate) there seemed to be alot of air in the system.

So back in went the gearbox (had it in place in 10mins this time lol), fitted the gearbox mount up & the gear linkage. Bled the clutch hydraulics again - all seemed good. I turned the engine over by hand with Shell testing the clutch & gears & success....it was much better than before.

4 hours later - and everything was back together & it was roadtest time. Thankfully the clutch system was perfect, no slippage & selects gears spot on.

Definately a marathon job....glad its over & its working well...Shells very happy - anyone else need their clutch doing!!! Haha!! [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]

Anyway...some piccys of the job

All parts organised into bags thanks to chief bagger & labeller Shell..









Getting the gearbox mounts back in place..









The long tool used for removing the transfer box deep allen bolt...









....in action...









...dont forget to have the magnetic pickup tool at the ready to fish tools out should one of the many failure points...erm...fail...









Least I got my picture of the clutch mounted second time round...

















New ARB Bushes have been fitted as a temporary measure because the ARBS have cracked...

















Subframe given a bit of a clean & ARB bushes fitted ready to mount up..









Will do parts list & pricing this week at some point once I've finished having nightmares about TTs!!! LOL!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

Shell here uber impressed with my new clutch and extremly tired from all the hard work i did by passing tools haha :lol:

But a massive thank you to Lee for all his hard work and determintation [smiley=baby.gif]

Thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu :mrgreen:


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## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

shell said:


> Once I've finished the job I'm going to do a full breakdown on parts you will/might need to do a clutch swap on a 6speed 225TT including part numbers & prices - not sure if you want to put in in a separate place on the forum perhaps if its of any use to others in the future - I know it would of saved me alot of research!!


Hi Lee,

Did you get round to the parts breakdown? I've just been quoted these from Audi as parts needed for clutch replacement in my 2001 225 quattro:
Pressure plate - £99.53
Centre plate - £99.83
6 bolts - 35p each
Release bearing - £40.75
Output shaft seal - £2

Can you let me know if these are the parts needed? Any others that you recommend replacing while I've got it apart. I was going to let a mechanic friend do the job with my help and watchful eye.

Anymore info to help would be much appreciated, a quick step guide would help. Not full instructions as you have pretty much covered it all but more just a chronological list of different steps would help my mechanic lots.

Cheers
Neil


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## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

Neil....

I havent done it yet but I will.

Havent got the list of exact part numbers/prices to hand at the mo sorry.

What Audi have said is correct - and whilst you've got it apart I'd suggest doing the following - have included rough prices...

Rear main crankseal/flange - £40.00
Dual Mass Flywheel - £300.00 (depends on the state of your old one, mileage etc)
Flywheel Bolts (x6) - £0.40 each
Gearbox Oil (x3) - £13.00

If you want to be absolutely anal/perfect then I'd suggest you should replace...

DogBone Stretch Bolts (x3)
Slave Cylinder Bolts (x3)
Transfer Box Case Seals

Basic Guide....here goes..will try not to leave anything out

1.) Battery tray & battery out
2.) Air box out
3.) Gear linkage off & tied up out the way (dont lose the retaining clips).
4.) Earth strap off
5.) Sensor at rear of gearbox disconnected
6.) Starter disconnected, removed & moved out the way together with the wiring harness holder bracketry
7.) Top 2 engine/bell housing bolts removed.
8.) Engine supported using an engine brace
9.) Gearbox mount location & bolt location marked & mount removed from gearbox
10.) Clutch hydraulic pipe removed & taped up

** THAT SHOULD BE ALL YOU NEED TO DO IN THE ENGINE BAY - UNDER THE CAR NEXT **

12.) Wheels off
13.) Headlight auto adjuster rod disconnected (passenger side)
14.) Undertray removed
15.) Passenger Arch liner partially unbolted & moved out the way
16.) Mark the bottom ball joint location on both sides - remove 3 bolts each side
17.) Remove dog bone mount
18.) Remove subframe rear support bolts
19.) Remove Steering rack bolts
20.) Remove main subframe bolts
21.) Remove downpipe rubber hanger
22.) Remove pipe clip on subframe
23.) Drop subframe off & add to parts pile
24.) Remove both driveshafts from gearbox & tie out the way (so you dont whack your head on them....eh Shell!!)
25.) Remove driveshaft heatshield on drivers side
26.) Disconnect Propshaft
27.) Remove transfer box (5 bolts) - you'll need to make a long tool as per in one of my pics to get to the centre one - get ready to catch gearbox oil or plug hole where fluid comes out.
28.) Remove 4 remaining engine/bellhousing bolts
29.) Remove power steering pipe clips - 3 of, 1 on side of gearbox, 2 on front of gearbox
30.) Remove gearbox (tilt engine/box a little on the engine brace to help angles) - bit fiddly with the power steering pipes getting in the way but you are able to pull/yank/move them about easy enough

As the haynes says - refit is the reverse of removal!!

Couple of pointers...

1.) Connect new clutch slave out of the gearbox & bleed & ensure its working correctly before fitting into box
2.) Ensure the clutch plate moves freely down the spline
3.) Ensure the gearbox in in neutral when you fit back onto engine 
4.) Dont forget to change all the seals/bolts you've bought for the job - rear crankseal be very careful when fitting - dont crease the inner seal when you fit it.

Dont think I've missed anything out - if I have it wont be a major point probably just a clip or 2.

Good luck.


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## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

Absolutely spot on just what I was after 

One final question - can it be done with the car up on stands as I don't have ramps available?


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## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

Well yeah I suppose it could - wouldnt like to try it though mate - the boxes arent the lightest by any stretch of the imagination - make sure you have a good couple of decent trolley jacks to hand to help you.

Does your mechanic friend not have access to ramps?


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## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

No he works as a mobile mechanic. Thats why I said I can help as I knew it was quite a big job and I can watch whats going on. I'll make sure nothing is forgotten.


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## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

Right gotcha - still dont fancy doing it on axle stands though!!!

Try and get it as high as you can off the floor - perhaps get some large axle stands if you've got a jack that can accomodate this..

Something like these perhaps....

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... xle-stands


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## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

I don't mind the struggle if its going to save me a lot of money.

I'll check with him and see if he has got good stands, he probably has.

Are there any other specialist tools needed apart from the long allen key? Or can you get away with not removing the transfer box.


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## shell (Feb 1, 2008)

I believe you can do it without removing the transfer box....but for the sake of 5 bolts not only does it make it lighter, it also makes it a little more manuovereable!

He should have enough extensions etc to make the tool up ok.

No other specialist tools - other than a clutch aligning tool - I used an insulation tape modified Renault one believe it or not!!


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## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

Once again thanks for all your info I'm going to give my mate a call and run it by him now to make sure we can do it.

I'll let you know the outcome.

Neil


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Interesting read! Did you manage it on axle stands then?


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## ViperOneZero (Sep 4, 2008)

lol

Shell offers a clutch fitting service for Nw ppl. 
:lol:


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