# Rear Control Arm Replacement 225 Quattro



## John Stratton (Jun 20, 2010)

After reading about the rear control arms snapping I am considering replacement and looking for your guidance.

So , I assume its best to replace with the adjustable type ?

Do you fit the adjustable ones top or bottom ?

Are OEM ok for the other two standard ones ?

Thanks for your help .


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## paul4281 (Jan 25, 2010)

I'm sure I'll get corrected but I thought it was early versions of adjustable tie bars that had some problems. 
I think standard ones are not prone to breakage but if you did want to replace I would say 1 standard & 1 adjustable set to correct alignment issues. There have been some debate about top or bottom, I think John H has done a write up somewhere, I would normally say bottom adjustable.

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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

You can fit the adjustable control arms top or bottom 
If I remember correctly it was only on the very early TTs that there was a problem with them snapping


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

paul4281 said:


> I'm sure I'll get corrected but I thought it was early versions of adjustable tie bars that had some problems.
> I think standard ones are not prone to breakage but if you did want to replace I would say 1 standard & 1 adjustable set to correct alignment issues. There have been some debate about top or bottom, I think John H has done a write up somewhere, I would normally say bottom adjustable.
> 
> Sent from paul4281's iPhone using Tapatalk


It was the standard tie bars that were snapping


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## paul4281 (Jan 25, 2010)

Thanks Yellow, that was quick!

Any particular year or model? You've got me worried now!

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## John Stratton (Jun 20, 2010)

Ok thanks for your replies .

Mine is a 2002 model so not sure if this would be in the danger time zone or not .

Having seen what happens when they break it does not look good so thinking of the safety aspect more than anything .

Cheers.......John


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## TTMBTT (Jul 22, 2010)

Just changed the two lower arm's £85 each from T.P.S, needed to correct camber angle
plus excessive tyre wear to inner tread. Had them fitted by my local inde: along with
the stub lower bushes £16 each, all this did not correct the issue. Looks like the top links
and bushes will also need renewing. [smiley=bigcry.gif] 
Hope this tale helps you decide which course to follow....(ADJUSTABLES) unless you want
to stay OEM.


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## John Stratton (Jun 20, 2010)

hi TTMBTT ,

Thanks for you comments on your replacements .

If you need adjustment could you go for 2 x adjustables as understand they can be fitted top or bottom .

Cheers.......John


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## Gone (May 5, 2009)

Generally the adjustable tie bars are fitted on the bottom, you can fit another set on top if you like spending money.

I'm not 100% on the bars snapping but there is/was an issue with the joint between the bar and the hub - it was a rose type joint and these are prone to seizing, they've since been superseded by a solid rubber bush.

Note the bolts at either end of the tie bars are single use so you'll need some more each time you change them

Bolts are 104 162 01 (£1.41 each ) and 104 280 01 (1.36 each), one is inner set, one the outer set - can't recall which

Nuts are 101 064 02, 86p each

Prices are + VAT

70 Nm + 1/4 turn


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, Early TT suspension probs.

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recall ... =Blank&tx=

Hoggy.


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## paul4281 (Jan 25, 2010)

Up to February 2000, can sleep tonight then&#8230;

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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

For those that have problems fitting std ones you have to be aware that there are two different lengths.

I cant remember the exact difference but it's only about 12mm so you wouldn't see the difference unless they were side by side.

The different lengths are for the early pre facelift where the shorter bar was fitted to the top. When the S Line came out it was lower and the way the factory compensated for the extra neg camber was that they fitted two equal length bars (the long ones) so the top of the wheel was pushed out to retain the original camber.

As the car is lowered as well as creating more neg camber it also increases toe in, so the reason the top and bottom bars are changed for adjustable's is so you can adjust the toe in as well.

Using this theory and also assuming that most people/mechanics fit the adjustable's to the bottom cos it's easier, when I fitted mine I made the extra effort and fitted them to the top, as per the pic. This way I hope to correct the toe in as well.









The car is still being built so I haven't had the opportunity to test out the theory.


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

Tie bars were failing at the forked end which was invariably caused by the ball joints seizing. Audi admitted there was a problem (hence the VOSA recall for cars up to 2000) The "cure" was to fit rose joints with improved sealing...there was no change to the construction of the tie rods.

From experience with an early TT I had the early joints replaced under the recall, however that didn't cure the problem entirely when an uprated joint was replaced an seized within 6 months.

Moving along to last year when we picked up a 50k mile facelift /sport suspension TT one of the first things I checked was the tie rods and rose joints - one upper rose joint was seized and the tie rod was cracked at the fork end. Heavy corrosion was also evident on the remaining tie rod fork ends.

Top rose joints on both sides were replaced with the solid rubber mounts (Audi no longer supply the rose joints - obviously a weak point despite the improved sealing) When I picked the car up it appeared the camber was looking a little more than it should be. Rather than buy new tie rods, I knew a specialist had kept all the OE tie rods when he fitted adjustable tie rods.

Completely by accident, I discovered he had two different length rods available (he didn't know that either!) There was a difference of around 5mm between the two measured bolt hole to bolt hole centers.

Picked up two of each that were near new for a fraction of the cost that Audi wanted. On removing the four fitted to my car they were of different lengths too, by around 5mm. The shorter rods were fitted to the top, the longer at the bottom.

I decided to fit the longer rods to the top, shorter at the bottom...a subsequent alignment check showed the rear camber to be well within Audi's tolerance specs. Saved me a few bob on the planned purchase of adjustable rods!

If there is a moral to the story; don't think that because your car is post 2000 your rose joints are fine - check them for perished seals and freedom of movement. Check the fork ends for corrosion and cracks, also check the condition of the inner end weld were the housing for the bush connects to the rod. I'm sure someone on here spotted a duff weld.

Dave

.


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

Jac-in-a-Box said:


> there is a moral to the story; don't think that because your car is post 2000 your rose joints are fine - check them for perished seals and freedom of movement. Check the fork ends for corrosion and cracks, also check the condition of the inner end weld were the housing for the bush connects to the rod. I'm sure someone on here spotted a duff weld.
> 
> Dave
> 
> .


That was me!!! when re bushing the std ones I found a split :?









Wasn't visible until the bush was removed - so ended up buying new from TPS


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## reesy (Jan 10, 2012)

I have just bought a set of adjustable tie arms as I have some coilies to fit and don't want to be buying new rear tyres every five thousand miles. That and the fact that the std rears aren't the strongest things known to man


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## colingo (Sep 19, 2009)

so going by what people are saying, am i correct in thinking that if you fit 40mm lowering springs say to a preface lift car it should be possible to get the camber within audis limits by fitting OEM rods in different lengths/positions. ie longer post face lift rod at the top and short pre facelift on the bottom.
I am not being tight, but i simply cant see the point in using £250+ adjustable rods on lowering springs when once fitted and settled down will have a fixed height.


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## reesy (Jan 10, 2012)

I paid a lot less then that for mine, sub £200 and from looking at them on mates cars, speaking to people with them and the pic he sent me, they look to be better then the more well known brands.


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## colingo (Sep 19, 2009)

reesy said:


> I paid a lot less then that for mine, sub £200 and from looking at them on mates cars, speaking to people with them and the pic he sent me, they look to be better then the more well known brands.


Thanks do you have a link


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## kazinak (Mar 23, 2010)

you can run around -2 degres without any issues , and i'm 100% lowering my 40mm you will get less than that


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## merlin c (Jan 25, 2012)

Here are my adjustable tie rods by Forge, they would only fit on the bottom, 2003 225 TT.


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

Double post - ignore

Dave


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

colingo said:


> so going by what people are saying, am i correct in thinking that if you fit 40mm lowering springs say to a preface lift car it should be possible to get the camber within audis limits by fitting OEM rods in different lengths/positions. ie longer post face lift rod at the top and short pre facelift on the bottom.
> I am not being tight, but i simply cant see the point in using £250+ adjustable rods on lowering springs when once fitted and settled down will have a fixed height.


That's pretty much what I did on face lift TT with sports suspension. Bear in mind that you are lowering approx 15mm more than a TT with sports suspension which is IIRC 25mm lower than a pre-facelift. The extra drop may not allow the fitting of different length tie bars to bring the camber into spec!

Dave


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

colingo said:


> so going by what people are saying, am i correct in thinking that if you fit 40mm lowering springs say to a preface lift car it should be possible to get the camber within audis limits by fitting OEM rods in different lengths/positions. ie longer post face lift rod at the top and short pre facelift on the bottom.
> I am not being tight, but i simply cant see the point in using £250+ adjustable rods on lowering springs when once fitted and settled down will have a fixed height.


You can swap the top and bottom bars over but I think the combined difference would give you positive camber so you need to order another set of bottom bars so they are equal length top and bottom - which I think is what the facelift uses.
So doing this doesn't really save a lot and your stuck with whatever it ends up like

I have a drop of 35mm and I got 2.75deg neg camber per side but I've had a year of driving with no extra tyre wear

Just another thing to consider on the top or bottom debate for adjustables - if they're fitted to the bottom to lessen the camber you pull in the bottom of the wheel, when they're fitted to the top they push out the top of the wheel thereby increasing the track. Admittedly by only a small amount but there seems to be a lot of debating on here about the size of rear spacers and 5mm seems to mean a lot to the stance


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## bigG225 (Apr 27, 2009)

Hi, just being reading this thread as I've got KW adjustable control arms to fit to a 2002 s-line TT and wanted to know whether they should replace the top or bottom arms?
After a phone call to Awesome GTi in Manchester (who sell them) I was told the following:
"Take both arms off one side and check the lengths, if the bottom one is longer put that on the top and fit the adjustable to the bottom. If they are the same then put the top one back and fit the adjustable to the bottom."

FYI
I helped a mate fit some Forge adjustable arms to his 2004 R32 and we put them on the top, it's on coilovers and as low as possible (idiot!). Seems to be ok though.


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## kazinak (Mar 23, 2010)

merlin c said:


> Here are my adjustable tie rods by Forge, they would only fit on the bottom, 2003 225 TT.


they can be fitted on top aswell, in fact you will have more adjustment when they are fitted on the top :wink:


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## TTMBTT (Jul 22, 2010)

kazinak said:


> merlin c said:
> 
> 
> > Here are my adjustable tie rods by Forge, they would only fit on the bottom, 2003 225 TT.
> ...


To one who knows, with no camber measuring device is it a guessing game gauging the correct length of the link rod
increasing/ decreasing by say 5mm until it visually looks correct, or is there another method :?:

Mark


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## Justin TT (Oct 9, 2018)

I have a control arm problem two new control arm replacements have broken and it is getting rather expensive.
Should I replace the bearings will poly bushes? 
Can anyone tell me how they have fixed this problem long term? 
What is a good upgrade for the control arm as know nothing about what is good or bad quality?
Should I replace with the standard Audi OEM PART.
I love my TT 
And want to enjoy her again without worrying my wheel is gong to fall in.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

They usually snap because the rose joints seize, the bottom ones are much easier to change, the top ones need the sub frame lowering.

The reason people get adjustable ones is to compensate on other bushes are general alignment issues.

I found an official repair kit from Audi which had 4 rose joints 4 control arm's and all new nuts and bolts, this was only about £85 which is amazing as the control arm's are usually £45 each and rose joints £20 each.


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## Justin TT (Oct 9, 2018)

Thank you very much for the info, where did you find this kit? Amazing price 
Did it fix the problem long term
Audi are trying to see me control arms for 100 each and bushes are quite expensive too


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## TommyK (Feb 18, 2018)

I'm just waiting for my local VW center to get the later bonded rubber bushings, single use stretch bolts and nuts in order. I'm fitting cookbot adjustable control arms (hopefully top position if they'll go) with super and power flex bushings where possible. Should get the camber back in range. I've heard of the brake disc heat shield getting in the way when pressing the top rose joints out, I've never heard of subframe being dropped.

Can anyone elaborate on that, I was planning a DIY session with hand tools to do this on the driveway!

P.s mine is a 2001 pre facelift model running just below facelift height. It had the sealed rose joints and one was prett rough indeed, despite having 20,000 miles on the clock. I stripped it, cleaned and pushed as much marine grease in as possible. It's now smooth but I don't trust the 17yr old rubber seals to keep the winter out. Time to get them changed and fit the eibach springs!


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