# Special Insurance for Nurburgring?



## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

As you'll have seen from the other thread, I'm planning to take my car back to the 'ring this year along with other TT'ers.

I called my broker (same one as last year - recommended by this Forum & the old TTOC) last week to tell them dates, etc. and just got a phone call back today to say my insurer (same one as last year) will not cover me this time. I've given the broker some more info regarding the 'ring being classified as a public toll road and they are going to ask again, but it doesn't sound hopeful. I know there are specialist companies out there that will provide cover at a cost (they gave me details of one as a suggestion), but my circumstances have not changed and I haven't made any claims, so I'm somewhat disgruntled. To be fair, it's not the broker's fault and they are being very helpful.

What experiences have others had in getting Nurburgring cover under your current policy and, if successful, please can you IM or post which company? Between my modified TTR and our SLK I pay over Â£2000 per year in car insurance premiums and I won't hesitate to swap companies over this.

It's all ScoTTy's fault 

Cheers,
Rob


----------



## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

I've just been quoted Â£274 PER DAY by Eggar Lawson for Nurburgring cover with Â£15,000 sum insured and Â£2500 excess. That's for an Audi TT and in no way related to the spec of my car.

If that stands, it's bye bye Nurburgring


----------



## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Direct Line said no problem. I even asked for it to be added as an addendum to my policy. No cost.


----------



## Guest (May 20, 2003)

BE VERY CAREFUL WITH DIRECT LINE!!!!!!

I have their very latest, updated policy booklet sat directly in front of me as I type........the addmendments include the tightening of some definitions.....namely......

_TRACK DAY_, means the vehicle is being driven on a motor racing track, airfield, de-restricted toll road, or at an off road 4x4 event.

Putting my legal head on.....I wouldn't want to argue that the ring could be classed as anything other than a "de-restricted toll road"....after all....to my knowledge there will be no enforced speed limit will there.....just my opinion. Â ???


----------



## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

> _TRACK DAY_, means the vehicle is being driven on a motor racing track, airfield, de-restricted toll road, or at an off road 4x4 event.
> 
> Putting my legal head on.....I wouldn't want to argue that the ring could be classed as anything other than a "de-restricted toll road"....after all....to my knowledge there will be no enforced speed limit will there.....just my opinion. Â ???


IIRC the Nurburgring is only derestricted until you get to the final home straight. At that point, there are a succession of reducing speed limit signs that look just like (are) normal German road signs. I am told that the police enforce this.

I don't know if this changes anything, but I made of point of telling my broker as they were unsure as to how the Nurburgring compares to normal tracks.


----------



## Guest (May 20, 2003)

> IIRC the Nurburgring is only derestricted until you get to the final home straight. At that point, there are a succession of reducing speed limit signs that look just like (are) normal German road signs. I am told that the police enforce this.
> 
> I don't know if this changes anything, but I made of point of telling my broker as they were unsure as to how the Nurburgring compares to normal tracks.


Rob,

Personally...and I know it wasn't specifically you mentioning Direct Line, but I wouldn't think that the one solitary section of restrictions would satisfy the definition.
IMHO they have specifically addressed this definition for the very purpose of negating claims relating to track days of all formats.......again though...just my interpretation. :-[


----------



## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

Tesco have said there is no problem with the ring.
I was under the impression that the Insurer who is recomended by the TT forum covered you for track days so the ring shouldnt be a problem i would of thought but seems they have changed there policy :-/
Jonah
I'm checking with Tesco again for piece of mind


----------



## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

Rob 
I have just got off the phone with Tesco's and descussed the Ring with them and all was Ok until he started to write the details down on my policy some bloke next to him stated to shake his head as if to say NO WAY , the the guy who i was talking to then phoned the underriter and they have said as long as the track hasn't been cornened off for RACING that it was perfectly ok to drive the Ring on my policy.
I ask what he meant by coning off and he said for persific race day not a public day.
Hope this helps as it has put my mind at rest.
Jonah


----------



## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

Cheers for the additional feedback. I shall enquire VERY carefully as to exactly what I am covered for with whoever I change to if Roadster Insurance won't cover me.

I'll check my policy when I get home, but I clearly remember having an endorsement last year that said something to the effect of 'includes the Nurburgring'.

Right now, with track days on the up and up and the increasing reluctance of standard insurers to cover people, track day insurers must be having a field day!


----------



## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

hmmm.....I've been thinking about this too and was getting round to checking what the deal is on insurance for the ring.

I guess as you're not allowed to "race" at the Nurburgring track this would help, even though parts of it are derestricted.

Â£ 274 is way too much for one weeknd. feck that for a game of soldiers -will check with my insurers tomorrow.

**Update**

Not extremely helpful, but taken from Ben Lovejoy's site at http://www.nurburgring.org.uk

*Is my road insurance valid?

The consensus view is 'yes but ...'

There are three reasons to suppose that standard road insurance applies.

First, the German police clearly think so as they check insurance documents when they attend accidents there (so do take all your driving documents with you). The police attend whenever an injury has occured or where fault is disputed in multiple-vehicle accidents.

Second, the Ring is, in law, a public road, which means that road insurance applies by default.

Third, I know several people who have successfully claimed on their road insurance. On at least two of these occasions, the location was quite clearly stated on the claim form as 'the NÃ¶rdschleife' and there was no problem with payment.

However ...

Some policies specifically exclude 'track use'. Since the Ring is legally a road but also undeniably a track, this policy wording could be interpreted as letting the insurance company off the hook. At the very least, it is likely to lead to extremely long and potentially expensive arguments. Some German policies go even further and specifically exclude the Ring by name: in those cases, there is no doubt at all that you are uninsured.

More typically, policies exclude 'racing, pace-setting and time-trials'. None of these terms would apply to ordinary use of the Ring, but the time-trial clause may be deemed to apply if you are timing your laps. German police are noted for the unvarnished truth in their reports, so if they find a running stopwatch on your bike or in your car, this fact may well be noted in the official report of the accident.

Conversely, some policies specifically include trackdays. With these you have the reassurance of not caring how they classify it, but always check the small-print. For example, my MX-5 policy covered all trackdays, but my Porsche one only covers trackdays organised by Porsche, a Porsche dealer or the Porsche Club of Great Britain.

While insurance companies would almost certainly have to pay up in the end on a standard road policy, the likelihood of arguments and delays means that most accident victims tend to fudge the location if they can. Common descriptions of the location of Ring accidents are 'a road running between Adenau and Nurburg' and 'a mountain road in the Eifel region of Germany'. For this reason, if you take Ring photos of other people's cars or bikes and put them on the web, please always remove or blur number plates.

If you want to be 100% sure you're covered, the only options are to ask your insurance company or buy special track insurance. But the former approach could be very bad news if they say 'no' as they can then argue that they imposed a special condition, and track insurance is very expensive with high excesses also.

One essential step for drivers from outside Germany is to double-check that you have full coverage for overseas use, not just the minimum legal cover. Some policies revert to minimum third-party cover when abroad: always check.

You should also make sure that you have personal medical cover: German hospitals are extremely good, but also extremely expensive. Bikers should ensure that their travel insurance covers motorcycling - many policies exclude bikes over 125cc. I have an Amex policy which costs me Â£99 a year for worldwide cover. The advantage of Amex is that hospitals everywhere will know immediately that it's fine, so there won't be any delay in treatment. Also, a friend was kind enough to test it by getting himself helicoptered out of the Ring, spending several days in ITU and then transferred back to the UK. Amex paid for everything with no fuss, no problem. (They did rather less well with a minor problem - see trip report 17 under Past Trips.)

Finally, remember European breakdown cover. Some policies (eg. Green Flag) give you European cover automatically, others don't. If yours doesn't, you can get AA Five Star cover or similar on a trip-by-trip basis. To indicate why you want this, my 968 clutch started failing at the Ring and was gone completely by the time I reached Belgium. Green Flag had to pay for immediate recovery from the motorway, recovery from a local depot to Calais, recovery from Dover to the specialist in London and a hire car to get me home. I don't know what the total bill came to, but I saw the paperwork for the Belgium to Calais recovery: â‚¬1300 (about Â£850)! The total bill is likely to have reached four figures.

*


----------



## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

Cheers Stu - I will send this to my insurers if they still won't cover me. BTW, it's worth re-stating that I was covered on the same policy last year and they didn't tell me about any change


----------



## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

It doesn't sound good. I am fortunate that not only does my policy cover track days, it also states that I have cover at the ring.

Yes I know that doesn't help you! :-/


----------



## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

> It doesn't sound good. I am fortunate that not only does my policy cover track days, it also states that I have cover at the ring.
> 
> Yes I know that doesn't help you! Â :-/


Paul, I thought we were with the same insurance company! Roadster Insurance (Chris Knott) broker, insured through AON/Royal Sun Alliance?

If not, pls IM or text to let me know if you're with now and I'll get a quote from them for swapping cover for both my cars.

Cheers,
Rob


----------



## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

I thought scotty had the same insurer also which was why i thought trackdays and the ring would not be a problem with ur present insurer :-/


----------



## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

Posted a thread on Scoobynet and got this response from a regular ringer:

*"your normal road insurance is valid on the Nurburgring as long as the circuit isnt closed for a trackday or race.

The ring is a one way public toll road that is treated as a normal road under german trafic laws unless in a closed session.

The only way your insurance can be invalid is if they write to you and specifically exclude that road from your cover, otherwise it is just treated like any road in germany. "*


----------



## Guest (May 22, 2003)

> Posted a thread on Scoobynet and got this response from a regular ringer:
> 
> *"your normal road insurance is valid on the Nurburgring as long as the circuit isnt closed for a trackday or race.
> 
> ...


Firstly......have a cracking time at the Ring....I am soooooo jealous that my TTR isn't here in time!!!!!!!!

I really don't wish to be downhearted about this......but, will this gent from the Scooby Net do all the legal running and fightiing as an expert in the ensuing court cases (civil) if the Insurers refuse to pay?? Has he ever made a claim??
I can only say that if it were me.....I would be very very cautious indeed. The wording that I quoted early in this thread (and I have experience of interpretting legal speak), is in my opinion aimed directly at "roads" like The Ring.
The insurer has the "out" written in for himself.

Again, this is only one insurer, many will provide cover, I have no doubt, but I would want to know that it was in place before.....rather than take someone's "expert" advice that "The only way your insurance can be invalid is if they write to you and specifically exclude that road from your cover, otherwise it is just treated like any road in germany."

I will be going to the Ring next year...I will be driving it.....but I will also be getting it "belt and braces" that I have cover long before there are any tears.


----------



## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

I'm just awaiting an update from my broker before I start phoning around other insurers who might be happy to take my business.

If I'd known about the change in policy at my last renewal, I would have gone elsewhere straight away.

Not happy 

Rob


----------



## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

> Paul, I thought we were with the same insurance company! Roadster Insurance (Chris Knott) broker, insured through AON/Royal Sun Alliance?
> 
> If not, pls IM or text to let me know if you're with now and I'll get a quote from them for swapping cover for both my cars.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, we are both with Roadster!! Now this is silly. I am covered and you aren't and we're both doing the same thing! Â :


----------



## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

> Oh yeah, we are both with Roadster!! Now this is silly. I am covered and you aren't and we're both doing the same thing! Â :


Yep, given our respective fortunes at the 'ring, it's kinda ironic


----------

