# Someone is not going home tonight



## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

Because he was killed by a motorist in roadworks on the M8. Please think about this next time you speed through the 40mph roadworks speed limit.

From the BBC: :?

"A road engineer has died after he was struck by a car while carrying out maintenance on the M8 in Glasgow. The 38-year-old workman was pronounced dead at the scene of the incident at junction 9, near Easterhouse.

Police said the 28-year-old driver of the vehicle was arrested after the crash at 0110 GMT on Saturday.

His 37-year-old female passenger was taken to Monklands General Hospital in Airdrie and is said to be in a stable condition."


----------



## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

:?

Just highlights that speed restrictions ain't there just to piss off drivers.....there are legitimate reasons why they are enforced.


----------



## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

Whilst every sympathy with the workman's family etc, and in full agree ment with restriction in road works, how many times have we slowed down for the road works only to leave the other side having not seen any workmen?


----------



## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

mighTy Tee said:


> Whilst every sympathy with the workman's family etc, and in full agree ment with restriction in road works, how many times have we slowed down for the road works only to leave the other side having not seen any workmen?


Just because you can't see them, doesn't mean that they are not there. In case you hadn't guessed, I've got religion on this. Roadworks and 30mph zones should be strictly enforced and people breaking the limit by any significant amount should be jailed. After all, in doing so, you're gambling with someone else's life.


----------



## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

BreTT said:


> mighTy Tee said:
> 
> 
> > Whilst every sympathy with the workman's family etc, and in full agree ment with restriction in road works, how many times have we slowed down for the road works only to leave the other side having not seen any workmen?
> ...


Brett - I quote "in full agreement with restrictions in road works".

However so many people late a night don't see workmen so assume there is no danger. I for one never speed (deliberately) in motorway road works, as I know I am more likely to get caught. During the time in the restrictions I will guarantee I will be overtaken by many of the vehicles I had passed in the previous few miles.


----------



## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

mighTy Tee said:


> BreTT said:
> 
> 
> > mighTy Tee said:
> ...


Sounds like we are in danger of violently agreeing here.


----------



## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

BreTT said:


> mighTy Tee said:
> 
> 
> > BreTT said:
> ...


Why?

Where did I say I disagreed with? :?


----------



## Antwerpman (Nov 4, 2002)

BreTT said:


> Just because you can't see them, doesn't mean that they are not there. In case you hadn't guessed, I've got religion on this. Roadworks and 30mph zones should be strictly enforced and people breaking the limit by any significant amount should be jailed. After all, in doing so, you're gambling with someone else's life.


Surely the anti speed campaigners would say that any time you are speeding you are gambling with someone else's life?


----------



## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

Not wanting to dilute this topic, and in full agreement about not speeding in roadworks etc.

But - surely 50 is a completly arbitary limit for m/way roadworks?

Government stats (apparently, according to the adverts)

@30mph, 80% of peds hit by a car will live
@40mph, 80% will die
@50mph? - guess not many will survive.

In m/way roadworks, we effectively have a dual carriage way with a path next to it.

What is the point in *only* slowing to 50?
surely it should be 30 to protect the workforce?

Or maybe that would just be too politically un-popular :?


----------



## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

Don't I Recognise You? said:


> Not wanting to dilute this topic, and in full agreement about not speeding in roadworks etc.
> 
> But - surely 50 is a completly arbitary limit for m/way roadworks?
> 
> ...


I'm in agreement with everything said, especially the impractical 50 speed limit. As a precaution, as well as having the the works well signed, I think warnings should be put on the matrix as an added measure, informing drivers of workers on the carriageway, and long term the motorways should all be well lit.
Also, there is the "boy who cried wolf " attitude taken by some drivers. How many of us have seen the 50 flash up miles ahead of something, then a certain distance further on the signs say "END", and you're left wondering what it was for.
Drivers then get complacent and conseqeuntly pay lip service to any warnings.


----------



## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Unfortunately the article doesn't say what happened exactly. Was speeding the cause of the accident? Did the engineer go outside the safe cones area? Did the driver loose control and went into the working area?


----------



## S11 W TT (Jul 29, 2004)

what kinda upsets me is people seem to be more worried about getting caught speeding and not why the limits are there. Does it not bother people that they may kill someone instead of worrying about a few points and a fine :? im far from perfect and a self admitted speed freak but thats what always plays on my mind not getting told off by the roz, after all we are handling the most dangerous weapon in the uk :?


----------



## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

I think it's more a question of 'where and when' personally.

speed limits of 30 (or preferably 20) outside schools, built up areas, *real* accident balckspots etc - I'm all for it.

But to be honest - as soon as your speed gets about 50 or 60 mph, if you have an accident, things are going to be nasty. 'All' you are doing by going faster is reducing your chances from bad to worse.

Put another vehicle, travelling at the same speed, but in the opposite direction into the equation.... :?

Obviously, ALL roads have a 'safe' speed - which is also dependant on traffic conditions, road conditions, weather, etc etc etc.

Some people are prepared to take the risk by pushing as close as they can to what they *think* this 'safe' speed is - and sometimes get it wrong.

But there is no way to implement a 'go as fast as you think is safe' speed limit....

Couple this with two other factors:

1) For anyone who saw the Traffic Warden thing the other night. One point in particular that stuck in my mind (apart from the point of the program), was the guy who got a ticket whilst (illegally) parked, dropping his kid off to school.
He proceeded to have a go at the Warden, following him down the road, threatening violence.
Why? - Not becuase he got a ticket 9who this obviously didn't help ) - but becuase he was the ONLY ONE to get a ticket - as if somehow it would have been ok as long as everyone else got one too!
Factor: Feeling of 'it's ok to break the law, as long as everyone else does, and it's not me who gets caught'

2) lack of respect for the Law (note, 'law', not 'police' - although again, that does contribute).
The 'average man in the street' would happily argue that the speed limits in place today are no longer applicable to the cars we drive - which handle and stop significantly better than those of the 60s(?, before then?) when the limits were introduced.
They also realise that the chances of getting caught (by a copper) are significantly lower now than they have ever been before (and getting worse).
And if Mr Joe Public can convince himself it's a stupid Law, it's a small step to then breaking it :?
But when he does get caught, he feels very angry.

And that's before we even start to discuss Gatsos..... 

Anyho, I've waffled enough now, and probably still haven't made any sense, or indeed, a point.
So I'll shut up 

But thank you for reading 
(If you got this far )


----------



## S11 W TT (Jul 29, 2004)

i got that far... good points


----------



## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

thank you


----------



## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

mighTy Tee said:


> Why?
> 
> Where did I say I disagreed with? :?


Precisely my point - we were arguing two sides of the same coin.

That particular section of roadworks is a 40mph zone by the way.


----------



## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

vlastan said:


> Unfortunately the article doesn't say what happened exactly. Was speeding the cause of the accident? Did the engineer go outside the safe cones area? Did the driver loose control and went into the working area?


They cannot report the circumstances around the accident as it is the subject of a report to the procurator fiscal.


----------



## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

BreTT said:


> vlastan said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunately the article doesn't say what happened exactly. Was speeding the cause of the accident? Did the engineer go outside the safe cones area? Did the driver loose control and went into the working area?
> ...


So there is no current (publicised) proof that accident may not have been speed related?

Brett - you seem to have taken a very high stance on this and another topic in the last 24 hours. Is this because the person who lost their life was known to you?

PS - I am not looking for an arguement, just that these posts seem out of character against previous posts of yours which I have read.


----------



## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Went through the roadworks just north of the forth bridge last week its a 30 limit and some idiot was about 2" behind me all the way


----------



## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

mighTy Tee said:


> BreTT said:
> 
> 
> > vlastan said:
> ...


The fact that the passenger has serious injuries and that the workman was killed implies he wasn't doing 20mph for a start. This particular person is unknown to me, but I lost a very close friend and her sister in a crash a number of years ago because her boyfriend was driving like an idiot. Like I said earlier in my post, I have religion on this.

I have taken a high profile stance against speeding many times in the past - just ask Vlastan about our spat a good while ago now. Too many people think that because they have a fast car they should be immune to the law. If you don't like the law, change it at the ballot box. In the meantime, inappropriate speed kills. In 30mph zones and in roadworks, it is inappropriate.

It may not be a popular stance, but I do support any attempts that cut down the carnage on our roads.


----------



## phil (May 7, 2002)

A few weeks ago driving through the roadworks at the new bit of the A1 I had some tosser in a people carrier 2" from me, so I just let him past eventually. 5 minutes later after the roadworks, same tosser was sitting alone in the outside lane at 65. Do these people not think?

I think they should bring in the american law - double fine, double points if caught in roadworks. 
Plus, make it mandatory for all roadworks on trunk roads and motorways to have hidden speed cameras and make sure everyone knows. If you know there's a speed camera in the roadworks and don't know whereabouts, then you've not got no choice but to keep to the limit for the entire length. Unless you're stupid or reckless, in which case you deserve the points/fine.


----------



## raven (May 7, 2002)

Completely agree with Phil. I always get overtaken on 50mph or 30mph stretches of motorway where there are roadworks. The other day even an HGV overtook me.

One of the reasons I bought cruise control in my car was so that I could resist the temptation to go any faster when everyone is overtaking me.


----------



## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

raven said:


> Completely agree with Phil. I always get overtaken on 50mph or 30mph stretches of motorway where there are roadworks. The other day even an HGV overtook me.
> 
> One of the reasons I bought cruise control in my car was so that I could resist the temptation to go any faster when everyone is overtaking me.


I use a combination of both cruise control and my speed limiter to the same effect. If it is stop start traffic in rush hour for example, I find it useful to set the speed limiter rather than the cruise.


----------



## raven (May 7, 2002)

BreTT said:


> raven said:
> 
> 
> > Completely agree with Phil. I always get overtaken on 50mph or 30mph stretches of motorway where there are roadworks. The other day even an HGV overtook me.
> ...


Yeah, I was talking to my old man about the speed limiter which he's got on his Merc. Sounds useful - I don't have it on my car unfortunately.


----------



## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

Brett - I appreciate your views, and my views on a similar wave length.

Having been driving for well over 25 years and having covered between 400 and 500,000 miles, I would classify myself as an experienced driver (not necessarily a good driver) and have seen many incidents during that time. Through luck or judgement I have only ever picked up 3 points, and only had 3 insurance accidents, all of which were minor knocks or shunts.

I will also add that driving a LHD motor make me realise how close pedestrians are to the kerb, it is bloody frightening and something which I did not appreciate sat out in the middle of the road with RHD cars.


----------



## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

raven said:


> BreTT said:
> 
> 
> > raven said:
> ...


Not the first time I've been compared with someone's old man on this forum... :wink:


----------



## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

BreTT said:


> Because he was killed by a motorist in roadworks on the M8. Please think about this next time you speed through the 40mph roadworks speed limit.
> 
> From the BBC: :?
> 
> ...


well your assuming the driver was at fault....

im sure the speed of the car did kill him, however maybe the victim stepped out into the road, or maybe some other reason or factor was involved....


----------



## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

Toshiba said:


> BreTT said:
> 
> 
> > Because he was killed by a motorist in roadworks on the M8. Please think about this next time you speed through the 40mph roadworks speed limit.
> ...


Driver has been arrested and charged. Seems fairly conclusive.


----------



## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

I'm not saying it's right or wrong. The post doesnâ€™t really give enough details.

Usually if someone's killed the driver gets charged - the case doesnâ€™t always get proved though.


----------



## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

Toshiba said:


> I'm not saying it's right or wrong. The post doesnâ€™t really give enough details.
> 
> Usually if someone's killed the driver gets charged - the case doesnâ€™t always get proved though.


Granted.

You can tell that I feel pretty strongly about this obviously. I just feel desperately sorry for his family and friends. He went to work to do his job and paid for it because of the actions of someone else. Until excessive speed is seen the same was as drink driving is, we'll continue to see cases like this.


----------



## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

BreTT said:


> Toshiba said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not saying it's right or wrong. The post doesnâ€™t really give enough details.
> ...


Iâ€™m sure your right, no one wants to be killed. We all have strong feeling about one thing or another. Speed is not always at fault is what i was hinting at - maybe it is in this case.

I think most peopleâ€™s problem with road works is that you get miles and miles of cones with nothing happening most of the time and it becomes frustrating. However the cones are out for the safety of workers, not the pleasure of drivers.

I'm sure his family will be very unhappy either way.


----------



## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

I am not against speeding per se, I am against inappropriate speeding. I'm more than happy to set my cruise at 80-85mph in the right conditions on a motorway. No issue with that at all.


----------

