# 2.0 TDI stage 1 remap....clutch worries



## jnb1 (Feb 22, 2021)

Hi all,
New here but thought I would stick pop in and ask a few questions. 4 days ago I acquired a MK3 TT 2.0 TDI Ultra (34k miles). It's a wonderful car but I've just today decided to get it re-mapped by quantum tuning (stage 1).

BP is now 220/ Torque 450nm 
Default: BP - 180/ Torque 380

I looked into re-mapping before doing this and it appeared a relatively safe thing to do, as it was only stage 1. However now I am hearing/seeing all these horror stories about clutch slip/people screwing up their clutches within a few thousand miles. Obviously I have no idea what the maximum torque is that the stock clutch can handle, but is this something I should worry about? I took it for a spin after the remap and all seemed fine. Only thing I noticed is that it can be difficult to put all the power down cleanly if you accelerate too hard but that's a given.

Could someone please explain the reality of how worried I should be. The last thing I want to do is ruin the car!

Thanks


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## Tavianer (Dec 17, 2020)

Did you put your car on the dyno and get a graph on how the power is distributed?

Apart from that, an increase of max. 40 BP and not even 100NM - I wouldn't worry too much.


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## MrOCD (Feb 9, 2021)

No need to worry.

The 170 / 177 and 184ps engines have higher rated clutches and can cope with a stage one remap fine. I did over 70k miles on my old one with a stage one map. Never had an issue.

The stories you've read are likely to do with the 140-150ps TDi... which suffer from DMF judder when torque is over 280lbft.

Enjoy it.


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## jnb1 (Feb 22, 2021)

Thanks for the replies all. I haven't had the car on a dyno myself per say, but quantum did provide me with a graph showing torque distribution etc at different rpm. It seems pretty smooth. I'm having to learn to adjust my acceleration somewhat though....flooring it in third will will give a few traction issues. Luckily this isn't how I drive normally, I was simply testing out the remap.

Glad to hear my clutch won't explode though. Especially since by remapping I effectively made a choice to void my 6 month audi warranty.....Not sure if that was smart or stupid! I just thought the chances of actually needing a repair within 6 months are slim. Hopefully I'm not eating those words.


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## blackvalver (Jan 6, 2020)

How do you think it has affected fuel economy?
Considering a remap on mine, any other traits it has now it didn't, I find rhs standard diesel can struggle for grip with fwd already



jnb1 said:


> Thanks for the replies all. I haven't had the car on a dyno myself per say, but quantum did provide me with a graph showing torque distribution etc at different rpm. It seems pretty smooth. I'm having to learn to adjust my acceleration somewhat though....flooring it in third will will give a few traction issues. Luckily this isn't how I drive normally, I was simply testing out the remap.
> 
> Glad to hear my clutch won't explode though. Especially since by remapping I effectively made a choice to void my 6 month audi warranty.....Not sure if that was smart or stupid! I just thought the chances of actually needing a repair within 6 months are slim. Hopefully I'm not eating those words.


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## jnb1 (Feb 22, 2021)

Economy is pretty much the same, if not slightly better actually. Getting 50 + mpg most times.Low 40s if I floor it.

You're right - grip is a slight problem with the remap. Just make sure you apply the power smoothly, especially in lower gears and you're fine. To be honest, even before the remap this was the case to a certain degree. Was messing around a bit the day I bought it and went to burn someone off the lights (because I wanted to feel like being 18 again!). Ended up getting torque steer and wheel grip issues for a bit. If you value your tyres, I wouldn't go stomping on the throttle.

Considered putting traction control into sport but with the wet roads I don't trust it.


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## blackvalver (Jan 6, 2020)

I'm assuming this was a generic remap and not a custom map to your car, I don't really know much about remaps so a little concerned who to go with. Have been recommended a chap that does the remap and tweaks it on the road to your vehicle, I don't want maximum power but reliability, smoothness and no weird glitches.


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## MrOCD (Feb 9, 2021)

jnb1 said:


> Economy is pretty much the same, if not slightly better actually. Getting 50 + mpg most times.Low 40s if I floor it.
> 
> You're right - grip is a slight problem with the remap. Just make sure you apply the power smoothly, especially in lower gears and you're fine. To be honest, even before the remap this was the case to a certain degree. Was messing around a bit the day I bought it and went to burn someone off the lights (because I wanted to feel like being 18 again!). Ended up getting torque steer and wheel grip issues for a bit. If you value your tyres, I wouldn't go stomping on the throttle.
> 
> Considered putting traction control into sport but with the wet roads I don't trust it.


Ensure you are running decent tyres, they make all the difference. I had no issues planting the throttle hard in 2nd gear on Michelin P4S tyres.


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## jnb1 (Feb 22, 2021)

> Ensure you are running decent tyres


I'm on Michelin sports so maybe it was just the weather.



> I don't really know much about remaps so a little concerned who to go with


I went with quantum because they did a mobile service. You could go with revo or superchips, they seem pretty decent.

I'm still slightly concerned. Just watched a video about someone who had a 2009 Audi A5 TDI (170bhp) and he got it remapped to about 200/360lbs and his clutch/flywheel went a year later as the torque the car was now producing was 60lb over what the stock clutch could cope with.

Does anywhere here roughly know the stock value of the clutch in the mk3 2.0 tdi? The last thing I want is to get screwed. That being said, clutches has probably advanced a lot since 2009


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## blackvalver (Jan 6, 2020)

I can't imagine the 184bhp TT engine has the same clutch as the lower power 2.0 TDIs, I'd imagine there's quite a bit of margin to handle more power, or rather torque, the 184 engine is pretty torquey already.


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## jnb1 (Feb 22, 2021)

I've attached the remap graph if anyone is interested so you can see the torque curve. Obviously as I haven't put the car on a dyno myself I can't guarantee these figures. Although quantum do seem to be known nationally apparently for being on point. Could be bullshit though....



> I'd imagine there's quite a bit of margin to handle more power, or rather torque, the 184 engine is pretty torquey already.


That's my thought. I'm assuming clutch slip is pretty easy to detect. Worst case scenario if that happens, back to standard it goes. The curve on the graph doesn't seem too spikey though. No huge lumps and then nothing.


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## Tavianer (Dec 17, 2020)

Graph looks good,

A5 definitely has a different clutch, yours should be the same as a GTD or A3 184HP

Keep one thing in mind: Weight.

Your clutch needs less effort to get all that mass going, compared to the A5's.


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## MrOCD (Feb 9, 2021)

jnb1 said:


> I've attached the remap graph if anyone is interested so you can see the torque curve. Obviously as I haven't put the car on a dyno myself I can't guarantee these figures. Although quantum do seem to be known nationally apparently for being on point. Could be bullshit though....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What is the worst case scenario ... ?

New clutch and DMF? - Hardly end of the world on a manual car.


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## GoodThunder (Jul 19, 2016)

MrOCD said:


> What is the worst case scenario ... ?


A blown-up engine with nulled warranty and insurance?


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## MrOCD (Feb 9, 2021)

GoodThunder said:


> MrOCD said:
> 
> 
> > What is the worst case scenario ... ?
> ...


Perhaps if have used a cowboy tuner that just flashes the car with no checks. Any decent tuner warranties their work with insurance. iirc revo / APR 2 years.

Dealer warranty - Yes, that is your choice of risk.

Insurance - only if you haven't declared it.

I'm amazed at how negative this forum is against tuning from all the posts I've read on mapping cars.


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## Emanuel29 (Oct 28, 2019)

MrOCD said:


> GoodThunder said:
> 
> 
> > MrOCD said:
> ...


Good luck claiming your insurance from the tuner!


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## jnb1 (Feb 22, 2021)

> What's the worst case scenario


I rather not spend £££ on repairs for the sake of it. You speak about getting a new clutch fitted like buying a pint of milk. Considering there would be no point fitting an OEM clutch if this happened, it would more buying a performance clutch and then having it fitted.

It is better to avoid the issue in the first place, rather than throw money at an issue you could have prevented. This is why this thread exists...

I'm pretty sure all will be fine with what everyone has said. I notified my insurance. Only cost me £15 extra which I thought was great! Quantum also offer a lifetime warranty on the software. Not that would help a clutch issue but still, they aren't cowboys.

Seen so many cowboy tuners on youtube doing remaps in car parks, without using proper kit to regulate voltage. One bloke even got his ECU bricked!


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## MrOCD (Feb 9, 2021)

If you'd rather not have the risk or the hassle then put the car back to standard. It's that simple.

Nobody can tell you what will / will not happen. That's your own decision once you have assessed the risk as every car is different and has variables.

As I said in my experience it will be fine on the oem clutch.


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## jester225 (Jan 14, 2020)

I`ve had my mk3 done,its been about 8 months since it was done and no problem at all,you are worring about nothing mate these engines and clutches can handle the upgrade without any problems,mine returns about 55/58 on the motorway if driven correctly,the least ive seen was 42/44,you will find the car drives a lot more linear and to me feels easier to drive.


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## GoodThunder (Jul 19, 2016)

MrOCD said:


> GoodThunder said:
> 
> 
> > MrOCD said:
> ...


ummm... what's so negative about that?

The question was what's the worst case scenario, right? The blown-up engine phenomenon is bad, and it does sometimes occur after remapping indeed, so it's not an entirely unlikely scenario. Therefore it meets all the criteria to be a valid answer written in a rather neutral and inoffensive way.


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## MrOCD (Feb 9, 2021)

GoodThunder said:


> ... I'm amazed at how negative this forum is against tuning from all the posts I've read on mapping cars.
> 
> ummm... what's so negative about that?
> 
> The question was what's the worst case scenario, right? The blown-up engine phenomenon is bad, and it does sometimes occur after remapping indeed, so it's not an entirely unlikely scenario. Therefore it meets all the criteria to be a valid answer written in a rather neutral and inoffensive way.


Let me clarify. I've spent a considerable amount of time reading up in here on remapping, as I'll be having my TFSi remapped once the warranty expires. Pretty much every other thread on remapping on here has been negative against tuning these cars which I find somewhat surprising given its an enthusiasts forum.

Yes, there are risks associated with such tuning. However, that applies to most things in life. Assess them, make a decision and move on.

If you decide to go ahead then do your research, choose a well known and trusted tuner who will support you fully in the event of any issues. Things can and do go wrong, but in my experience rarely.


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## Lee8181 (10 mo ago)

jnb1 said:


> Thanks for the replies all. I haven't had the car on a dyno myself per say, but quantum did provide me with a graph showing torque distribution etc at different rpm. It seems pretty smooth. I'm having to learn to adjust my acceleration somewhat though....flooring it in third will will give a few traction issues. Luckily this isn't how I drive normally, I was simply testing out the remap.
> 
> Glad to hear my clutch won't explode though. Especially since by remapping I effectively made a choice to void my 6 month audi warranty.....Not sure if that was smart or stupid! I just thought the chances of actually needing a repair within 6 months are slim. Hopefully I'm not eating those words.


How is that tune going now and has it been reliable?


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