# Takata airbag recall Australia



## bootstrap (Jul 24, 2018)

Received the devastating news from the local Audi dealer yesterday that my beloved Mk1 TT (69,XXXkm) has been recalled and taken off the road deemed unsafe due to a potentially faulty Takata drivers airbag. Due to the fact that there is no replacement airbag unit available, I believe that the company is now obligated to buy the vehicle back off me at market value. The dealer has provided me with an A3 while the valuation process is under way and although it is comfortable and impressive, it does not provide the same raucous excitement that my car does. Even with only FWD and 180hp, it has surprised many a tailgater, much to my continued amusement. The dealer has indicated that there may be some kind of deals available on demonstrator cars and so forth, so hopefully I may be able to salvage something from all this, but what to buy? I want a stick shift manual like my old car but I don't think Audi makes anything with that layout any more. And a bit of power wouldn't hurt, either.
Any suggestions? [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## HOGG (Mar 30, 2018)

I'm sure you could fit another second-hand airbag to the car tbf

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

HOGG said:


> I'm sure you could fit another second-hand airbag to the car tbf


Isn't the problem there that a secondhand airbag will be the same model as the one being recalled and deemed faulty?
Does this apply to all TT owners in Australia, or just a specific batch of cars?
Another option is fit an alternate steering wheel, which is perfectly possible, and of course is likely to have a different airbag and/or manufacturer.

Edit: 4000 vehicles effected apparently  
Surely this is a wider problem unless the airbag is an Australia only part? I suppose it might be, but why?

Edit: 1999-2000 Audi TT only
So solution as HOGG says is find a replacement airbag/steering wheel from a newer vehicle.
Problem is getting that work done (especially as Audi have your car now) and then convincing them you can keep it.


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## bootstrap (Jul 24, 2018)

Hi Hogg, thanks for your interest. Not sure if the second hand unit could be guaranteed not to be ultimately faulty also.
I suggested to the Audi service manager that I could have performed an airbag delete (and ignored the recall notice) if I had known that my car would be taken off the road following the airbag inspection.
I am totally shocked that Audi would prefer to BUY BACK the car rather than install and code in a suitable airbag ignitor module.
BTW, this recall applies to certain dates and models of airbag ignitor and mine is listed as faulty.


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## culver10 (Jun 26, 2019)

I just checked Ebay.com and there are at least 20 complete steering wheels with airbag listed for sale. If seller could supply the a picture of P/N, AUDI should be able to confirm that it is not on recall list? That sounds like a less than $500 solution vs buying back a nice car?

Cheers,

Phil


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## David C (Apr 15, 2013)

Seeing as a year 2000 airbag is waaaay past it's planned service life anyway, how much of an issue is this...
In reality, no issue at all... [smiley=whip.gif]


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## bootstrap (Jul 24, 2018)

No issue at all, unless you happen to own a vehicle with one ..
Its too late for me, I simply have to accept Audi's offer and I'm not sure it will be overly generous.
I suggest those forum members with cars manufactured during this period take steps to check and take action to fix the problem if the need arises.
The Audi Australia website has a section where a VIN can be submitted to verify affected vehicles.


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## David C (Apr 15, 2013)

I've just read the link....
Interesting and I'm sure not the last time we'll hear of similar.
Back then the airbags were marked for replacement after 5-years (so before the Mk1 even went out of production), but I've never heard of anyone actually replacing airbags as the cost will be several times the value of the car.


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

bootstrap said:


> Its too late for me, I simply have to accept Audi's offer and I'm not sure it will be overly generous.


That's not an "offer" then, it's a compulsory purchase. At the very least I'd be consulting a lawyer to see if that is lawful, and if not what your options are. Governments and some pubic bodies may have powers to compulsory purchase property, companies and corporations generally not (unless specifically granted to them by legislation).

@DavidC:
When airbags were introduced nobody had any idea how long they would last past their design lifetime. Obviously, being a safety system, they are designed to exceed a minimum lifespan (10 years or whatever) - but there's no real way of knowing by how much other than testing in the real world. What has been discovered by examining and testing airbags that have now reached their lifespan in the field is that they are still, on the whole, serviceable. Or at the very least the risk of replacing them (and some inexperienced tech in a non-factory environment making a mistake and thus unintentionally borking a perfectly good airbag system) is greater than them not working due to old age in the first place. So the decision has been made it is better to leave as is than to inspect or replace old airbags.

TL;DR: Field testing has show that old airbags are still safe so they don't need replacing.
However obviously there are exceptions such as this where a fault in the original production has been identified.


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## bootstrap (Jul 24, 2018)

I was told by the customer service person that I wasn't obligated to accept Audi's offer if I thought it was inadequate. 
I'm not sure if he is correct.
But what options do I have, should I decide to reject the 'market' valuation?
The car is not able to be driven on the road as it has been deemed to be 'unsafe'. Parts you say? Parts for what? Other unsafe vehicles?


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

bootstrap said:


> But what options do I have, should I decide to reject the 'market' valuation?
> The car is not able to be driven on the road as it has been deemed to be 'unsafe'. Parts you say? Parts for what? Other unsafe vehicles?


Get an independent to come and collect it on a low loader, take it away and replace with an airbag or steering wheel from a scrapped 2001 to 2006 model. These aren't in the recall, and so you'd have to assume not subject to this problem.

Heck you, or a mechanic, could even do this yourself on the dealers forecourt if you really wanted to make a point.




Make sure you follow the advice and disconnect the battery before touching anything to do with airbags though.


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## bootstrap (Jul 24, 2018)

I don't think you understand, pcbbc. The car has been taken off the road. IT CAN'T BE DRIVEN. Audi have taken the keys so I cannot drive it even if I wanted to. Legally It does not belong to me any more. It is Audi's now to do with it as they like.


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## Mcmtt (Dec 1, 2015)

Most ridiculous thing I've heard! Total madness and to be fair very few on here would have handed there car and keys over for a faulty drivers airbag!!! £15 on eBay job done. Best outcome if you can't get your car back is get a huge price for it ( which you are entitled to get as they've given you no option) and go and buy yourself a 225!!!!


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## bootstrap (Jul 24, 2018)

To be fair? Do you think I went to the dealer clutching a vehicle recall notice with the intent of handing over my car and keys? Do you think I had any choice in the matter? Do you really think I want to drive a car that has an airbag fault serious enough to be withdrawn from Australian roads anyway?
All I can say to my TT brethren is I hope your cars aren't equipped with the same Takata airbag as mine.


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

bootstrap said:


> I don't think you understand, pcbbc. The car has been taken off the road. IT CAN'T BE DRIVEN.


Did I suggest driving it? I suggested putting it on a flatbed/rollback truck and transporting it somewhere else to be fixed.
Unless you have signed/handed over the ownership documents to Audi the car is still your's as far as I can see. Did you sign anything? What did it say?
Sure, you legally may not be able to drive it until fixed - that is common in many duristictions if a vehicle is deemed non-roadworthy (although I'd question that decision it in this case as they allowed you to drive it to them to be tested).



> Audi have taken the keys so I cannot drive it even if I wanted to. Legally It does not belong to me any more.


"Legally" - You verified that and with whom?
Again, have you signed over ownership or not?
There seems to be some conflict between what Audi are telling you and what CS (who's CS BTW?) are telling you:


bootstrap said:


> I was told by the customer service person that I wasn't obligated to accept Audi's offer if I thought it was inadequate.
> I'm not sure if he is correct.


1. Get your facts straight legally (we can't help with that as we are not lawyers).
2. If you are not legally oblidged to sell the car, get it fixed with a post 2000 airbag and re-tested by Audi and certified safe.



> It is Audi's now to do with it as they like.


When and by whom were you informed this would happen? Before or after the inspection? I would say that has a bearing on if it would be deemed fair or not.

Member of your own fine Australian motoring press (prize douche that he is sometimes) also seems to agree compulsory buyback has no standing in law either...


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## torqueit (Jan 22, 2019)

Seems nuts to say the least. I can't help but think of older cars I own and drive that never had an airbag. A little sanity would say even if you couldn't find a replacement, you disable it and use seat belts. It's like people who think the world ends if you take away their cell phone. Not really. We did just fine without these things, and it's only recently that people have become so dependent.


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

torqueit said:


> ...you disable it and use seat belts.


In Europe (and I assume Australia too) you'd be crazy not to use your seat belt and rely only only on an airbag*.
European airbags are designed to be suplementary to the airbag, not instead of it. That means they are smaller and generally inflate less forcefully than your (US) variety.

That means less injuries overall, assuming of course people are wearing their seatbelts. Because meeting an inflating airbag head on is never a pleasent experience - it's just better than the alteratives of the steering wheel, dash or windshield.

* Fairly crazy in the US too IMO.


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## torqueit (Jan 22, 2019)

pcbbc said:


> torqueit said:
> 
> 
> > ...you disable it and use seat belts.
> ...


Never meant to say the airbag was a replacement for a seat belt. Apologies if I wasn't clear. I view them as a nice addition to, not a replacement, and a really good belt does a lot. Yes, it's nice to have both, but it's terrible to read of someone loosing their beloved TT because of what sounds like a very narrow view of what constitutes a "safe" car. This is one I feel the owner should have been given the choice to either turn it in, or have the airbag disabled and drive without. At some point, need to be able to take some personal responsibility versus a nanny state making decisions for you.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

does the description describe what caused the deaths? maybe it went off randomly and sent a bag of nuts and bolts toward the driver and passenger at hyperspeed?

I think some Aussie rules around modifying cars would (possibly) stop the owner from simply buying another steering wheel without an airbag.


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## David C (Apr 15, 2013)

StuartDB said:


> does the description describe what caused the deaths?


Have a Google. The issue has been going on for many MANY years.

Most cases are hot climates.
Issues of the casing shattering when it deploys, sending shards of metal into the driver...
A few unintended deployments too.

There were always going to be downsides to filling the interior of a vehicle with explosive devices.


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## GARAGE HERMIT (Mar 7, 2015)

seatbelt development was done by VW using live chimpanzees,
that's one for the pub quiz,


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## bootstrap (Jul 24, 2018)

For those interested, I have received written notification of the amount that Audi Australia are prepared to offer based on an independent valuation.
I don't have to accept the amount offered; however I have been strongly advised to accept it based on the information provided publicly regarding these airbags.
Should I decide to reject the offer, I'm required to sign a waiver that clears Audi from any future litigation from potential injury in future.
There seems little doubt that these airbags are problematic and likely to fail (somehow) at any time.
I guess, for me at least, the time has come to let my baby go and replace her with something even nicer &#8230;


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

bootstrap said:


> There seems little doubt that these airbags are problematic and likely to fail (somehow) at any time.


Only the ones manufactured up until 2000 as far as this recall goes. If it effects ones manufactured after 2000 Audi are going to have a much bigger bill on their hands.



> I guess, for me at least, the time has come to let my baby go and replace her with something even nicer &#8230;


That of course is the easiest and probably most sensible option, and I can't fault you for it.

Still it would have been interesting to see what would happen if you presented a replacement post 2000 airbag in a recalled vehicle. If it "failed" inspection I imagine that would really put the cat amounts the pigeons - i.e. why aren't post 2000 vehicles being recalled as well?!

So, have you been offered a "fair" price?


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

GARAGE HERMIT said:


> seatbelt development was done by VW using live chimpanzees,
> that's one for the pub quiz,


I'm not sure if that ones true or not. TBH they're probably not a great analogue.
But the Germans did test belts on real live humans. Cadavers have been used as well.

Volvo developed the 3 point belt and gave away the patent to anyone who wanted to use it - that one is true.


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## TTorBust (Mar 8, 2018)

Actually it's cars made post August 1999. I'm going on the website tonight with my VIN nr as my car was registered early 2000 (UK) so it'll be close, but I don't suppose we'll get the same offer as the Ozzies as we seem to be a bit of a pushover in the UK (dieselgate!)


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

You'll need a bit more climate change in the uk for the heat to be a contributing factor.


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## Arpy (Nov 6, 2017)

Hi Bootstrap, what a PIA! However, I recall reading that there had been 2 deaths caused by drivers being peppered with shards of metal(?) in tropical climes by these faulty airbags. So, from Audi's perspective, I understand the imperative action. I also recall reading that BMW did something similar for the same reason in the recent past.

I bought my 2002 (UK) TT when it was 15 years old. I read the handbook front to back because it had been off the road between 8 and 13 yo to make sure all the non-routine maintenance had been done. Had to do the usual Haldex, oil pick up etc but the paragraph that concerned me said that the airbags should be replaced at *14 yo*! Went to my local Audi dealership to be told: "Never heard of that sir are you sure". I went straight back out to the car and got the handbook to be told: "I've never ordered a replacement airbag due to age sir". Swiftly followed by the now **** off and stop bothering me about your 15 yo car look. I decided to find a bucket of sand and bury my head in it. Luckily(?) I don't live in Oz.


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

bootstrap said:


> For those interested, I have received written notification of the amount that Audi Australia are prepared to offer based on an independent valuation.
> I don't have to accept the amount offered; however I have been strongly advised to accept it based on the information provided publicly regarding these airbags.
> Should I decide to reject the offer, I'm required to sign a waiver that clears Audi from any future litigation from potential injury in future.
> There seems little doubt that these airbags are problematic and likely to fail (somehow) at any time.
> I guess, for me at least, the time has come to let my baby go and replace her with something even nicer &#8230;


I'd sign the Waiver and put the latest post 2001 steering wheel and airbag in. Its a simple choice.

If you want to use this as a trigger to get a new car then thats an option too specially as you may be getting a token cash injection to help out.

Seems a lot of drama when there is an option to keep the car for probably a few hudred dollars from ebay or a breakers.

My thoughts would be on what makes this an Australian issue only and not worldwide for pre 2001 TT's?


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

Wak said:


> My thoughts would be on what makes this an Australian issue only and not worldwide for pre 2001 TT's?


If you read Wikipedia it seems to be climate and age related (hot humid climates are more destructive).

Also you'll see that previous recalls centered around defective parts identified as being from Takata's Mexico plant. Maybe Audi stopped using them earlier, like BMW apparently did post 2014?

Looking at the following article it says:


> Nonetheless, Bartlett said that the DVSA "has pressed each manufacturer to produce a plan for when each model needs to be rectified on the basis of expected component degradation. This has resulted in a recent increase in the number of vehicles affected". The DVSA added it did not consider the risk posed by UK Takata airbags serious enough to issue a 'Stop Drive' recall notice that would tell motorists to not use their cars, and that it continues to work with the Department for Transport as it attempts to link the annual MoT test with its own vast recall database.


So maybe *not* just pre-2001 vehicles, and this will be an ongoing issue. 

And there has already been a UK recall for this issue. Has anyone had thier TT recalled? First I've heard about it.

Most likely I think that Audi evaluated risk was too low considering there haven't been any reported UK incidents. UK is a far bigger markey than Australia, so you'd have expected to see some.
But there's also the posibility we don't use the same airbag design. Does the parts catalogue reveal different airbags for EU / Austraila / US? What about production years?


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## TTorBust (Mar 8, 2018)

Waiver - Don't get it, what happens if you sell the car? Personnally I'd take the money (+20% for my troubles), buy a newer mk1 TT and swap the good bits over before handing the keys to the dealship. Audi won't care as it's going to be crushed anyway.


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## fat-j (May 12, 2019)

it's pretty disgusting that Audi Australia can't be bothered fixing the car that launched them into such a profitable era. All those classic 1999 TTs, all rust free are just gonna be trashed! like a toaster with just one lose wire, straight to landfill. Where's their eco credentials in all this?


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## fat-j (May 12, 2019)

I read BMW are sourcing old airbags from the Australian Auto Recycling industry for their cars caught up in this, and some of their cars go back to 1997!


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

pcbbc said:


> Wak said:
> 
> 
> > My thoughts would be on what makes this an Australian issue only and not worldwide for pre 2001 TT's?
> ...


Sad for the 24 world wide deaths... but come the f##k on 1000s of people a day die on the roads.










You have more chance of dying by a squirrel attack than airbag fault. (Touch wood)


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## David C (Apr 15, 2013)

pcbbc said:


> So maybe *not* just pre-2001 vehicles, and this will be an ongoing issue.


I think it will definitely be an ongoing issue.
Back when airbags first came along, cars naturally wasted away after a few years.
Now though cars are build better and last faaaaar longer structurally (and mechanically generally), so the issue of ageing explosive devices inside them, inches from the occupants, is not going to go away...


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

I have never even seen an air bag go off... I don't reckon they work properly at all after 10 years.

My parents one's went off in a head on collision at about 20mph each car 3 year old car, broke my dad's arm and nose and my mum's sternum where my dad put his arm across my mum and his own arm up, so the air bags made him punch my mum in the chest and himself in the face.

My sons clio didn't trigger and he crashed into a tree.


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## bootstrap (Jul 24, 2018)

Just completed the required documentation to transfer ownership of the vehicle to the local Audi dealer. The dealer then transfers the settlement amount to my account and they are reimbursed by Audi at a later time. I'm told the airbag module will be removed from the vehicle and then specifically packaged and sent by special courier to Melbourne. The vehicle is then to be loaded onto a car transporter and sent to be crushed. At no stage can the vehicle be driven with the airbag connected to the car.
The dealership were very helpful and made special provision for me in the circumstances and made it clear that there would be an opportunity to purchase another TT (demonstrator models) should I wish in the future.
And so my relationship with a gorgeous little Mk1 TT has ended, but I've found a very nice manual 2.0l 8J with only 53,000km so I might check that out.
Those unconcerned about this issue will have no problem simply wiring a 4.7ohm resistor across the terminals and just 'soldier' on; however if the remaining Mk1 TT owners see any value in having a functional (and safe) airbag SRS then one needs to take a serious look at the situation before the legislators in your various locations repeat what they did here in Australia.


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## Mcmtt (Dec 1, 2015)

O you are so lucky to be alive! I'm terrified my airbag will explode at any minute here!!!!! Haha


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## bootstrap (Jul 24, 2018)

Hopefully it wont be your face plastered over the roof lining then.


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

StuartDB said:


> My parents one's went off in a head on collision at about 20mph each car 3 year old car, broke my dad's arm and nose and my mum's sternum where my dad put his arm across my mum and his own arm up, so the air bags made him punch my mum in the chest and himself in the face.


Sorry to hear that.

As I said, airbags and indeed seatbelts, are nasty things. Just better than the alternatives. Sternum and rib injuries are common from seatbelts alone.



> My sons clio didn't trigger and he crashed into a tree.


Again nasty. Hope he is okay?

At what angle? As well as speed, angle and direction of impact (among other parameters) are also inputs in the airbag deployment algorithm. Side impacts and rollovers won't trigger an airbag. They don't just go off regardless because they can cause quite serious injuries all of their own (even when not faulty) and there's therefore no point in deploying them in cases where aren't going to prevent a secondary dash/steering wheel impact.


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## GARAGE HERMIT (Mar 7, 2015)

they are not just on pre-2001, just seen a 2003 one for sale made by Takata,


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## TTorBust (Mar 8, 2018)

Pre-2001? On the Website it clearly states Pre Aug 1999, keep meaning to check mine (out of interest)


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

TTorBust said:


> Pre-2001? On the Website it clearly states Pre Aug 1999, keep meaning to check mine (out of interest)


Which website? Depends which country you are in as to if you are deemed at risk or not (climate also plays a part).

The most conservative Australian range I've seen is from here:


> 1997-2000 Audi A4
> 1998-2000 Audi A6
> 1998-2000 Audi A8
> 1999-*2000* Audi TT
> 1998-1999 Audi Cabriolet


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## TTorBust (Mar 8, 2018)

pcbbc said:


> TTorBust said:
> 
> 
> > Pre-2001? On the Website it clearly states Pre Aug 1999, keep meaning to check mine (out of interest)
> ...


The Official Audi Australia site. It's just Audi TT's manufactured in 1999. Would do a screen shot only TTForumn website wouldn't let me. Just search Audi Australia airbag recall.


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

TTorBust said:


> The Official Audi Australia site. It's just Audi TT's manufactured in 1999. Would do a screen shot only TTForumn website wouldn't let me. Just search Audi Australia airbag recall.


Okay, granted.

However here's the official Australian Government ACCC Product Safety Australia page:








Perhaps Audi haven't updated their page for the latest recall batch that was only announced in December?
Or maybe the ACCC have it wrong?


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## Excelerate (Jan 17, 2020)

bootstrap said:


> Received the devastating news from the local Audi dealer yesterday that my beloved Mk1 TT (69,XXXkm) has been recalled and taken off the road deemed unsafe due to a potentially faulty Takata drivers airbag. Due to the fact that there is no replacement airbag unit available, I believe that the company is now obligated to buy the vehicle back off me at market value. The dealer has provided me with an A3 while the valuation process is under way and although it is comfortable and impressive, it does not provide the same raucous excitement that my car does. Even with only FWD and 180hp, it has surprised many a tailgater, much to my continued amusement. The dealer has indicated that there may be some kind of deals available on demonstrator cars and so forth, so hopefully I may be able to salvage something from all this, but what to buy? I want a stick shift manual like my old car but I don't think Audi makes anything with that layout any more. And a bit of power wouldn't hurt, either.
> Any suggestions? [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## Excelerate (Jan 17, 2020)

I feel for you mate. I'm in the same position, apart from having not yet taken it to the dealer.

I love this car and I had intended to keep mine for life.

It sounds like the dealer didn't properly advise you in advance of providing the car and the letter which I also received regarding the recall didn't properly spell out what happens.

First thing is the car is yours until you accept an offer from Audi. Problem is, if you drive it away Audi will ask you to sign a disclaimer that you've been advised the car is unroadworthy. You'd likely also forfeit the potential buy back and in any case you can't re-register the vehicle. It's likely your insurance company would also not honour a claim if you did have an accident and knowingly drive the vehicle identified by Audi as unroadworthy.

So they've pretty much got you and i by the short and curleys.

That means our only options potentially are:

1. Maximise the the buy back value. Probably like you in an enthusiast of the TT so it has, at least in my case and likely yours, tremendous intrinsic value that won't be reflected in the 'independent valuation'. There's also an argument to be made that the TT is has an increasing value as its beginning to be recognised as a future classic. These are arguments I will be making to Audi.

The problem for me and probably you also is these cars have so much intrinsic value that any offer they could make won't satisfy me. Even if they were to offer me $15k (and there's no way they will) I still wouldn't feel properly compensated for the loss.

2. Audi says they wont fix the airbag (or cant) and there's no way they would fit a airbag or wheel from a latter year TT....but that's not to say someone else couldn't do that. I'd be proposing that Audi compensate for the replacement cost and fitment of another airbag. Which we would independently have to source and get fitted. I've researched my state transport authority and if a replacement airbag is fitted to a car (not necessarily the TT) then it can be the registered.

I've done a fair bit of research. According to the ACCCs website this is a voluntary recall and not a compulsory one - but that's only because it is less restrictive on Audi if they elect to do a voluntary recall as opposed to having the ACCC issue a compulsory recall. The latter also requires a replacement airbag. Audi don't want to have to meet that. It's easier and cheaper to buy back a handful of cars.

Interesting that I can't find any reference to the Mk 1 with the Nadi inflator having a recall else where in the world.

Keep In touch. We might be able to help each other.


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## bootstrap (Jul 24, 2018)

Hi Excelerate. You are quite correct.
I could have rejected the offer but would have required that the dealer disconnect (but not remove) the airbag ignitor and still sign the waiver document.
This of course would trigger a fault code on start up and the airbag symbol would be displayed in the dashpod. When registration renewal and roadworthy certificate (NSW) is required, it would fail the test due to the airbag warning light being displayed. The only way to fix the problem would be to perform the previously mentioned resistor install (and clear the fault code) and hope that nobody asked any too many questions as to how the fault was rectified. (It may well be different in other states)
Any potential new buyer of a Mk1 would be well advised to ask the current situation and if in fact the vehicle is not under a recall notice.
I understand that this will not affect ALL owners and some may choose to attempt to deride or 'shoot the messenger'; I thank you for taking the time to reach a reasoned conclusion. FYI, I cant really complain about the offer I accepted based on other posts on FB as it would appear that the valuation process does in fact take into account the condition of the vehicle; so the notion of removing and swapping parts in and out to try to 'beat the system' might be a backward step. 
Good luck with your negotiations with Audi and don't forget to keep us posted!


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## torqueit (Jan 22, 2019)

It would take a pretty big hammer to make me give up my TT. I'd be doing the resistor mod and moving on. After all, my car has a switch to turn off the passenger side airbag. Effectively doing the same for the driver side doesn't bother me in the least bit, but if you want to cash out, then this sounds like the time to do it.


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## bootstrap (Jul 24, 2018)

Your car may not even be affected.


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## torqueit (Jan 22, 2019)

bootstrap said:


> Your car may not even be affected.


No, mine isn't, at least to my knowledge it isn't, as I'm a 2005. Don't get me wrong. I understand why you went the direction you did. I would just fight tooth and nail to keep my ole gal, as I really can't come up with another car I can have the same level of fun and performance for the price point. I've also spent most of my life driving cars without air bags, and they've often been things that are smaller, like vintage Alfa coupes, and in the land of big Ford trucks and SUV's everywhere, getting squashed is a bigger issue than whether or not I have an airbag that's really only for a frontal collision. So I drive defensively and accept sometimes sh*t happens.


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## silkman (Jul 29, 2004)

My thoughts on this are that the consumer is being shafted once more [smiley=argue.gif]

Audi could have easily fixed this by giving the option to install steering wheel from a later model. At least give more options.


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## fat-j (May 12, 2019)

and silkman you are in Athens, it can get pretty hot and humid in bits of Europe, and these conditions were allegedly the reason why the Australians alone are having this recall as heat and humidity impacted the airbag igniters. Is it really going to stop at Australia or will this recall spread worldwide? I really hope not, as it will kill off our TTs


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## NtG (Jan 2, 2018)

How could I check the producer of the airbag in my car?


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## TTorBust (Mar 8, 2018)

napostolidis said:


> How could I check the producer of the airbag in my car?


Try going on Audi Australia recall website and entering your VIN number (pretty sure this is a worldwide nr), keep meaning to do mine but haven't got round to it


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## NtG (Jan 2, 2018)

TTorBust said:


> napostolidis said:
> 
> 
> > How could I check the producer of the airbag in my car?
> ...


Many thanks.

"Vehicle Not Affected

Audi Australia records show that vehicle with Vehicle Identification .......... is not affected by the Takata Airbag Safety Recall. However, please note that the Takata Airbag Safety Recall does not apply to privately imported vehicles. If your vehicle was privately imported, you should call the Audi Takata Information Line on 1800 856 770 so that additional inquiries can be made about what model airbags are installed in your vehicle."

https://www.audi.com.au/au/web/en/owner ... calls.html


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

TTorBust said:


> Try going on Audi Australia recall website and entering your VIN number (pretty sure this is a worldwide nr), keep meaning to do mine but haven't got round to it


Yes, the VIN is a worldwide number. But the full list of VINs supplied to the Australian Government ACCC is here and only includes 161 TTs.

I doubt very much that the Audi *Australia* website is doing anything other than checking against that very specific list of vechicles that Audi Australia know were sold from new into the Australian market in the effected timeframe. Hence the disclaimer...


> ...does not apply to *privately imported vehicles*.


@napostolidis: Your profile indicates you are located in Athens, Greece. If that's the case, and unless your TT was imported privately from Australia, I don't think you can rely on that result.


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## NtG (Jan 2, 2018)

pcbbc said:


> If that's the case, and unless your TT was imported privately from Australia, I don't think you can rely on that result.


 Will give a call to Audi Takata Info Line... out of curiosity


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## jimwise68 (Jan 16, 2020)

Reading through this is a bit horrifying. Not only for the fact you can lose your car. But that if airbags have a 14 year shelf life then a lot of people are driving around in ticking time bombs. Surely this must cover other car manufacturers not just Audi. Is there a patent on the explosive devices or are all car manufacturers based around the same technology?

I think I will switch my passenger one off and look into disarming the driver's one in my 2002, and trust my life with the seatbelts in a crash. I've been driving since 1986 and have had a few classics that only had lap belts, so I'm not that fussed about airbags, especially if there is the possibility it could end up being similar to a frag grenade.


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

jimwise68 said:


> Surely this must cover other car manufacturers not just Audi.


It does. There's a whole list in the "Defective airbag recalls" section on Wikipedia.



Wikipedia said:


> Takata claimed that the issue has only been shown to affect vehicles in hot and humid locations. However, all potentially affected vehicles have been recalled as a precaution. *No evidence of the issue has been seen in the UK or Europe.*


I think that quote regarding the recall applies to the US market where there has been an extensive recall on this already. Obviously they have tropical/sub-tropical climates in many southern states, and vehicles move around.


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## jimwise68 (Jan 16, 2020)

Thanks for the link PCBBC, this is all news to me.

It's not good reading.

I'm glad my family car is a 3 year old Hyundai Tucson, as it doesn't seem to be on the list.


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## fat-j (May 12, 2019)

jimwise68 said:


> Reading through this is a bit horrifying. Not only for the fact you can lose your car. But that if airbags have a 14 year shelf life then a lot of people are driving around in ticking time bombs. Surely this must cover other car manufacturers not just Audi. Is there a patent on the explosive devices or are all car manufacturers based around the same technology?
> 
> I think I will switch my passenger one off and look into disarming the driver's one in my 2002, and trust my life with the seatbelts in a crash. I've been driving since 1986 and have had a few classics that only had lap belts, so I'm not that fussed about airbags, especially if there is the possibility it could end up being similar to a frag grenade.


it's important to note that whilst 14 years is when Audi says to replace airbags it doesn't say their shelf-life is over, in fact most authorities say surprisingly 99‰ of old (supposedly expired) airbags still work well in accidents, the only issue to date with any airbag is from Takata airbags, which unfortunately we're fitted in 23% of the world's vehicles (owch),. So if your car has a non-Takata airbag I wouldn't be turning it all off


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## PlasticMac (Apr 25, 2017)

Is there a way to identify the the air bag manufacturer, without diss-assembly?
Mac.


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## fat-j (May 12, 2019)

to find airbag manufacturer: I'm not sure if VAGCOM can get this level of detail? but airbag removal is just 2 torx bolts behind the steering wheel. You'd better check the removal procedure elsewhere, but I'm always over cautious and I leave the battery disconnected for 30 mins before removal, but I guess thieves who nick your airbag just undo the 2 bolts, grab your airbag and run off! so it can't be too dangerous... can it?


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## fat-j (May 12, 2019)

Looks like Honda in the US has today announced the same Takata issue as the 1999/2000 TTs, but Honda's response appears to be give us time to source replacement parts for our 90s cars, not Audi's we'll buy your perfect maintained car for nix and crush it - there's customer service

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/01/22/hon ... ag-recall/


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## silkman (Jul 29, 2004)

Still furious about how Audi chose to handle the problem.

Imagine your car looking like this and one day you get a call from Audi "Oh goodmorning Mr. *insertnamehere*, your car airbag has a problem, your car is no longer fit to drive, please deliver it to us to have it crushed, we'll give you 4k for it"









Image credit DC240S

Not to mention that on the car manual it says airbags must be replaced after 12 or so years, so Audi should be obliged to supply the bloody airbags :evil: :x


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## fat-j (May 12, 2019)

silkman said:


> Still furious about how Audi chose to handle the problem.
> 
> Imagine your car looking like this and one day you get a call from Audi "Oh goodmorning Mr. *insertnamehere*, your car airbag has a problem, your car is no longer fit to drive, please deliver it to us to have it crushed, we'll give you 4k for it"
> 
> ...


I know it's just lazy, disrespectful (of an important car in their history), wasteful of the earth's resources (one problem and it's not fixable) and a terrible way to treat customers

I could think of 3 or 4 better ways of handling this. Even in this forum I see discussions about fitting later TT steering wheels and airbags to Mk1s, surely if our lot can do it in their backyards Audi could supply new steering wheels and airbags from ANY of their current models with perhaps just a custom connector being their only 'new' cost? Imagine how impressed we'd all be with Audi with a new wheel and airbag?


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

fat-j said:


> I could think of 3 or 4 better ways of handling this. Even in this forum I see discussions about fitting later TT steering wheels and airbags to Mk1s, surely if our lot can do it in their backyards Audi could supply new steering wheels and airbags from ANY of their current models with perhaps just a custom connector being their only 'new' cost? Imagine how impressed we'd all be with Audi with a new wheel and airbag?


Unfortunally I suspect that in today's litigious times that's probably not an option. The car won't have been crash tested with that wheel and airbag combination, and so from a corporate point of view replacing with non-original parts will be seen as a high risk option.

Imagine the headline "Audi replace faulty airbags causing further deaths".

An airbag is an airbag I hear you say? Well I expect only to an extent. It's the combination of the airbag and the seatbelt and probably a whole load of other secondary components as well.

That's not to say there aren't solutions, for example getting a part re-manufactured to original spec, but I expect they are being viewed as too costly.


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## fat-j (May 12, 2019)

pcbbc said:


> Unfortunally I suspect that in today's litigious times that's probably not an option. The car won't have been crash tested with that wheel and airbag combination, and so from a corporate point of view replacing with non-original parts will be seen as a high risk option.
> 
> Imagine the headline "Audi replace faulty airbags causing further deaths".
> 
> ...


Yes I think you're right about that, I heard they'd have to recrashtestand that was the reason it was too costly. If I trusted Audi to have really looked at all their still supplied airbags and they said they'd found none with the same characteristics as thr original TT that would have been a good answer, but I really don't think they've bothered, as u say this way of crushing the car is the least risky and hassle for them. Sad, when other manufacturers are talking about re-supplying alternative airbags for their 90s cars (probably bigger volumes for them though)


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## silkman (Jul 29, 2004)

fat-j said:


> pcbbc said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunally I suspect that in today's litigious times that's probably not an option. The car won't have been crash tested with that wheel and airbag combination, and so from a corporate point of view replacing with non-original parts will be seen as a high risk option.
> ...


From Audiworld


> Regarding your request we are happy to provide you with the number of produced Audi TT cars in the years of 1999 to 2006:
> 1999: 52.579 (CoupÃƒÂ© 44.022, Roadster 8.557)
> 2000: 56.776 (CoupÃƒÂ© 31.064, Roadster 25.712)
> 2001: 39.349 (CoupÃƒÂ© 22.078, Roadster 17.271)
> ...


With a production run of 275,000 cars for the mk1 TT, I dont know how it doesnt justify Audi making lets say 10,000 airbags that they would sell for a profit?

275K cars production, lets say 2/3 have been taken off the road, you have 91K TTs left worldwide that would need an airbag sooner or later :evil:


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## fat-j (May 12, 2019)

silkman said:


> With a production run of 275,000 cars for the mk1 TT, I dont know how it doesnt justify Audi making lets say 10,000 airbags that they would sell for a profit
> 275K cars production, lets say 2/3 have been taken off the road, you have 91K TTs left worldwide that would need an airbag sooner or later :evil:


that's a good point, if they sold them for a reasonable break-even point what current TT owner wouldn't want to fit a new airbag? I mean deep down we all know they're passed replacement time and may not work effectively in an accident


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## LVS (Feb 25, 2020)

In USA it appears that there will be a repair issued for the front airbag issue.


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## LVS (Feb 25, 2020)

Here's the rest of the data from the USA, the number of vehicles affected is over 100,000.
I've BOLDed the text where they say they will issue replacements free of charge.

NHTSA Campaign Number: 20V056000

Manufacturer Volkswagen Group of America, Inc.

Components AIR BAGS

Potential Number of Units Affected 106,857

Summary

Volkswagen Group of America, Inc. (VW) is recalling certain 2000-2001 TT Roadster, 2000 TT Coupe, 1999 Audi A8, 1998-2000 Audi A6, and 1999-2000 Audi A4 vehicles equipped with Non-Azide Driver air bag Inflators (NADI) that do not contain phase stabilized ammonium nitrate (PSAN) propellant. Due to a manufacturing issue, the NADI inflators may absorb moisture, possibly causing the air bag to deploy improperly in the event of a crash.

Remedy

*Dealers will replace the driver frontal air bag inflator with an alternative inflator when the parts become available, free of charge. Interim owner notifications are expected to begin March 27, 2020*. Owners may contact Audi customer service at 1-800-253-2834. Volkswagen's number for this recall is 69AE.


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## silkman (Jul 29, 2004)

Thank God for the US of A then, and their DoT.

Sorry for the TT owners in Oz that got shafted.


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## LVS (Feb 25, 2020)

Not sure why Audi Australia could not acquire some of these new airbags for their customers... got to be cheaper than buying back a car surely.


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## Arpy (Nov 6, 2017)

I haven't followed the Takata Airbag recalls on various car makes over the last year or so in detail but is it possible we are comparing apples to pears here. As I understand it the Audi Australia recall is about Takata airbags that create shards of metal (?) when they deploy following a number (?) of deaths. Hence the draconian recall requirement in OZ.








Whereas VAG America's recall is about under inflating airbags. Still potentially serious but entirely different in nature, particularly in low-speed impacts.
As for VAG being even-handed in the way they treat consumers in different markets, consider "Diesel Gate". There were 300,000 recalled/refunded cars in 100s of acres of storage compounds in the USA but none in the UK!


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## fat-j (May 12, 2019)

Arpy said:


> I haven't followed the Takata Airbag recalls on various car makes over the last year or so in detail but is it possible we are comparing apples to pears here. As I understand it the Audi Australia recall is about Takata airbags that create shards of metal (?) when they deploy following a number (?) of deaths. Hence the draconian recall requirement in OZ.
> View attachment 1
> 
> Whereas VAG America's recall is about under inflating airbags. Still potentially serious but entirely different in nature, particularly in low-speed impacts.
> As for VAG being even-handed in the way they treat consumers in different markets, consider "Diesel Gate". There were 300,000 recalled/refunded cars in 100s of acres of storage compounds in the USA but none in the UK!


 Nope it's the same Nadi airbag problem in US and Australia, just the wording is a bit misleading. It will be interesting to all Oz TT owners to see if Audi USA can source a new replacement airbag


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

fat-j said:


> Nope it's the same Nadi airbag problem in US and Australia, just the wording is a bit misleading. It will be interesting to all Oz TT owners to see if Audi USA can source a new replacement airbag


Yes, they may be impacted by the same underlying problem - but are US and OZ cars fitted with the same airbags?

See Wikipedia for the difference between US and European airbags.

Note that I do not know if this difference applies to the SRS fitted to the TT, or indeed if Australia follows the US or European standards. A detailed examination of the parts catalogue would probably tell you.


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## Arpy (Nov 6, 2017)

pcbbc said:


> fat-j said:
> 
> 
> > Nope it's the same Nadi airbag problem in US and Australia, just the wording is a bit misleading. It will be interesting to all Oz TT owners to see if Audi USA can source a new replacement airbag
> ...


fat-j, I'd be interested to know the source of the info that led you to that conclusion. It seems incredible that in the most litigious society on earth, that spawned Ralph Nader and a whole consumer protection movement, Audi would not take the same prohibitive action as they did in Australia. As pcbbc has suggested the root cause may be similar in nature but I don't think it's a case of misleading wording. The instant prohibitive recall in Australia was about shards being propelled into the driver. The recall in the USA, which hasn't even been issued yet (27-03-20) because there are no replacement parts available, is about propellant deteriorating over time and becoming hygroscopic thus leading to only partial detonation of the charge and under-inflation of the bag.
Possibly something good may come out of this if the Australian customer's cars could also be fitted with replacement airbags when they are available. However, I suspect this will all be too late for them, compensation money having changed hands and vehicles being crushed.


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## fat-j (May 12, 2019)

Arpy, yes you may be right, the airbags may be different Nadi airbags (would be interesting for Oz and US owners to compare part numbers at some stage), but it's mighty suspicious that less than 30 days after the Oz recall (which also mentioned the under inflation issue) the US issued pretty much the same recall for the same airbag type for the same years of manufacture, but as you say missing the death spraying shards bit! I was worried about UK cars getting caught up in this, but I don't think they will be but my investigation showed lots of non-Audi cars from Europe did indeed share the same Nadi airbag part number and as yet none of those cars are being recalled, which if they are as dangerous is pretty poor - as one poster said the consumer always seems to get shafted!

On that same note the death inflicting shards recall in Oz is unbelievably voluntary!!! so shows how poor the consumer is protected, keeping it queit and voluntary protects Audi's reputation


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## fat-j (May 12, 2019)

Just checked, I'm pretty certain this is the Oz Takata Nadi type/id at fault:

bam-pt1-0593

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong


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## Arpy (Nov 6, 2017)

fat-j said:


> On that same note the death inflicting shards recall in Oz is unbelievably voluntary!!! so shows how poor the consumer is protected, keeping it queit and voluntary protects Audi's reputation


Not according to the OP (bootstrap) who said "Received the devastating news from the local Audi dealer yesterday that my beloved Mk1 TT (69,XXXkm) has been recalled and taken off the road deemed unsafe due to a potentially faulty Takata drivers airbag".
I still think it's apples and pears here.


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## fat-j (May 12, 2019)

Arpy in the world of fake news and misinformation don't trust everything you read!

I get a sense you're not researching any facts on this but I thought I'd better double/triple check myself what I know

Firstly despite what the OP said I can confirm that in Australia this is a voluntary recall. Bizarre as it sounds for something that could kill you, the ACCC (Australian consumer watchdog) have allowed the manufacturers to handle this themselves via a voluntary recall, if it had been a mandatory recall the manufacturers would HAVE to replace the airbags with new ones (something they all want to avoid on 20yo cars).

People who have lost their TTs were the first to take them to dealers for a "quick check". When rumours of impounding were confirmed everyone started reading the fine print and discovered its just a voluntary recall, so many are now disabling the airbag (coz it IS potentially very dangerous) but NOT taking it to Audi to be checked as they don't have to.

I know all this because a) I have friends in the Audi Victoria club b) I double checked the fine print at ACCC

As for your "comparing apples to pears" comment, you may be right, is the US recall problem the same as Oz? BUT check out this incredibly detailed and insightful website I just found this morning on my hunt for facts

https://audi-tt8n3.jimdofree.com/dies-das/airbag-rückruf/

It's in German but Google translate does a great job. He appears to be a very thorough chap with a mechanical background and obsessed in his own words with "facts facts facts". His website is devoted to his 8NTT and he is concerned, like we all should be, that our early TTs may also be impacted by the same issue as in Australia

it's a long but really interesting read, I really recommend you read it to the end as he really gets on the trail of the airbag issue contacting Audi and Porsche (in a sneaky back-door attempt to get Porsche to clumsily reveal useful info that Audi deny) but if you don't read it I'll summarise some of his findings and we TT owners are not gonna like what he says:

1) he thinks any TT be it lhd or rhd built at that time will have the dangerous airbag 
2) he shows how to use the official Oz list of VINs to determine if non-Oz cars are impacted just by using our own VIN
3) he shows how to work out from part numbers if our airbags are suss (why is that so hard I wonder? why can't Audi just publish this info clearly?) 
4) he suggests Audi are being economical with the truth in the USA recall, which he thinks is the same issue. Since the Oz recall Audi have tested some old airbags and confirmed that some may not inflate properly BUT in the sample they tested none exploded so hence the reason they are not listing shards in the face as an issue in US recall!

Regarding this fourth point I guess i have some sympathy with this approach, I mean if a 3rd party brake calliper fitted to multiple car marques was proven dangerous in just one of those marques Audi could argue that we may use the same suspect calliper but in 20 years we've not had a failure so perhaps our geometry set-up or weight loading or QA process means we're not prepared to accept that on our cars it's lethal. In fairness, no Oz TT has fired shrapnel at drivers but it is the same part number that HAS on other cars from the same era. But in Oz the threat of repossession and crushing is being used, seems like an over the top response.

So there's a lot of facts there to absorb but Arpy's comment about Audi being unlikely to try and hide dangerous details in the over litigated US does seem an awfully risky strategy, one shrapnel death identical to Oz and boy what a lawsuit!

I guess we'll have to wait until Audi USA announce their fix for the impacted TTs (due end March I think) to see what twists remain in the story


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## fat-j (May 12, 2019)

that link doesn't like the German punctuation!

try this https://translate.googleusercontent.com ... a0lNcRUTRg

now pre-translated to English for yr convenience


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## LVS (Feb 25, 2020)

fat-j said:


> I guess we'll have to wait until Audi USA announce their fix for the impacted TTs (due end March I think) to see what twists remain in the story


My local Audi dealer has my email address so hopefully I will hear something around 27th March, the moment I hear anything I will post it here and the other thread : https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9311289#p9311289


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## LVS (Feb 25, 2020)

Latest update

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 9#p9323769


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## fat-j (May 12, 2019)

thanks for posting... u have to wait a year for a solution, kinda crazy, but I guess it's a crazy world now!


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