# TT won't even jump start and 'fuse' message



## crookie (Dec 6, 2011)

Hi all

We had a draining battery a few months ago. Wouldn't use the car for a week or 2 and the battery would be completely dead... Bought a brand new battery and all was good for a week. However car hasn't been used for another week, went down to start it and nothing again...

Someone kindly offered to help jump start it, at first all the dash lights came on, but straight after the dash lights disappeared and the car wouldn't turn over.

Tried reconnecting the cars again and once again dash briefly powered up, but then almost straight after dash shut down with just a 'fuse' message appearing. Car refused to even turn over again...

What do you think this could be? What is draining the battery so quickly do you think and why will it now not start even after being jump started - attempted?

Thanks guys - its a MK1 225 if that helps.


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

"Fuse" just means there's no power, ie totally flat battery or one of the main fuses on top of the battery has blown.
Have you checked the condition of those fuses and checked the alternator is charging.

Edit:- If the alternator/Voltage Regulator is not charging then it won't jump start.  _Of course it will jump start !_ 
_But if it's a totally flat battery or corroded/blown main fuse then it may not?_

Do a Forum Search for " *Voltage Regulator*"

Check Cimatronic code 20 for system voltage, ie battery before engine started and alternator voltage when engine is running.
Code 20 reads approx 0.5vdc lower than the reading at the battery terminals.
Min is 11.2 engine off and should be approx 14.1 engine running.

Pic of battery fuses:- viewtopic.php?f=2&t=387610&p=2887018





 Climatronic Codes

Further reading. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=311549&p=2466389


Skeee said:


> The "FUSE" warning simply means there isn't sufficient voltage, ie your battery is very flat or dead.
> If this is happening after a replacement battery then check all the engine bay fuses on top of the battery.
> Have a good look at the battery and alternator connections for corrosion and check they're tight.
> Also check climatronic code 20. Should be 11 ish before you start the car and 14 ish with engine (alternator) running.
> ...


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## crookie (Dec 6, 2011)

Thanks for your quick reply.

Have checked all the fuses and they're fine...

Have now removed the battery and have that on charge. Beginning to wonder if it's the alternator...


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## bobbobb (Dec 24, 2008)

i think its your starter motor drawing all the power . alternator doesnt need to work if your jump starting it but does once you have taken leads off.


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## crookie (Dec 6, 2011)

So...

Battery fully charged up so re-inserted it into the car. Locked the car with the window down to test the alarm. The alarm lights still go off and a very faint siren, presuming this therefore means the alarm isn't working properly and therefore is the battery drain.

Weirdly when I first re-connected the battery, all the electrics worked, but when I went to start the car everything just died again. Engine didn't even try turning and then all the electrics went again...
However, dis-connected and re-connected the battery again and all seems fine again.

Checked the alternator on Code 20 and is was 13.5 so all good there.

Any thoughts - something seems amiss?! What would the symptoms be of the Starter motor be?


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

crookie said:


> So...
> 
> Battery fully charged up so re-inserted it into the car. Locked the car with the window down to test the alarm. The alarm lights still go off and a very faint siren, presuming this therefore means the alarm isn't working properly and therefore is the battery drain.


Possibly. The alarm is not very loud anyway. Do you mean it's quieter than you remember having heard it before or have you never heard it until now?



crookie said:


> Weirdly when I first re-connected the battery, all the electrics worked, but when I went to start the car everything just died again. Engine didn't even try turning and then all the electrics went again...
> However, dis-connected and re-connected the battery again and all seems fine again.


When you say "electrics" do you mean the dashpod lights or all other electrical items? If for example your headlights also wouldn't work then there is a big circuit break somewhere but if it's just the dashpod then the fault could be more localised.

Big faults could be things like:

Faulty cell on battery (yes even a new one) - measure battery terminal voltage direct with a multimeter whilst someone tries to turn the engine over on the starter. If the voltage collapses to near zero on the battery it's likely to be a faulty cell.

If the voltage stays a constant 12V but all the electrics fail (lights on dash go out, headlights extinguish etc) then you have a bad connection between the battery and the load. This could be a number of things and needs tracing through. The meter will help. Repeat the above test with the meter between battery -ve and chassis. If you get a big reading when you try and turn over the engine then that points to a bad earth connection - possibly engine to chassis strap. A bad ignition switch is another possibility. Check the fuse links above the battery carefully - sometimes they can have a hairline crack and work half the time or for light loads.



crookie said:


> Checked the alternator on Code 20 and is was 13.5 so all good there.
> 
> Any thoughts - something seems amiss?! What would the symptoms be of the Starter motor be?


Starter motors usually fail open circuit (so you'd just turn the key and nothing would happen and nothing go off or fail) but it's possible it could have developed a short circuit. The current drawn would be enormous however and likely weld the solenoid contacts together and cause the heavy duty cable to get warm, or blast themselves open circuit and not repeat the same thing. I'm guessing this isn't the problem.


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## firediamonduk (Dec 24, 2013)

Starter could be jammed...


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

That's true. You might expect the voltage to drop but a healthy battery should not have have the system drop out. If it was jammed you would expect the leads to get warm and it would drop out eventually.


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## crookie (Dec 6, 2011)

John-H said:


> Possibly. The alarm is not very loud anyway. Do you mean it's quieter than you remember having heard it before or have you never heard it until now?


I'm almost certain it's quieter than before - you can barely hear it now. About as loud as the buzzer when you leave the lights on and open the door...

By Electrics I meant everything - lights, heater, radio, windows the lot. One minute they're all working completely normally again, then the second I go to start the car, everything disappears (like someone's just disconnected the battery).

I will get the multimeter out again as it's really puzzling me!

Thanks for all your help guys, it's really appreciated!


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## oz_p (Feb 7, 2011)

Have you cleaned the battery terminals of the crud that can build up? Im guessing you have as you changed the battery but you never know


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## crookie (Dec 6, 2011)

oz_p said:


> Have you cleaned the battery terminals of the crud that can build up? Im guessing you have as you changed the battery but you never know


Haha, I can confirm they are very clean!


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## gray2206 (Aug 16, 2013)

i had the same thing recently,my voltage regulator went on my alternator which ended up blowing the 110amp fuse link on top of the battery in the little black box.looking into the box it was the one to the far left.


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## crookie (Dec 6, 2011)

So, quick update&#8230;

Car has been in garage (once battery was charged up to get it there&#8230.

They've run diagnostics on it and found a drain of 0.3v on the battery - which they think is completely normal for radio, alarm etc.

They've tested everything else and can't find a problem, so are assuming it's the alternator. However when I run the code 20 on the Climate Control, I get 12.5v with engine off and 13.5v when running. This suggests the alternator is working fine doesn't it? Or would that voltage gradually drop as we're driving and the batteries not getting correctly topped up?

I'm concerned as have a long drive at the weekend and don't want to find ourselves stranded somewhere!

Thanks guys


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Do the same test but flash the headlights on. If the voltage collapses there is a problem but if it sustains near the same charging voltage the alternatorwould appear fine. Try other electric loads all at the same time - it should cope.

There is a possibility current is being drawn when everything is off.


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## crookie (Dec 6, 2011)

John-H said:


> Do the same test but flash the headlights on. If the voltage collapses there is a problem but if it sustains near the same charging voltage the alternatorwould appear fine. Try other electric loads all at the same time - it should cope.
> 
> There is a possibility current is being drawn when everything is off.


Hi - done the headlight test and voltage doesn't drop...

Did the long drive yesterday and reading was always around 13 - 13.5v on code 20. Checked battery when stopped (2.45 journey) and it says its 'ok'.

Is the reading above good for the alternator or should it be higher?

Proving a complicated problem!


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

The float voltage for the battery is

13.56V @ 20 deg C
13.33V @ 30 deg C
13.09V @ 40 deg C

You really need to measure it at the battery terminal voltage rather than the aircon unit as there may be some voltage drop in between but it doesn't sound too bad from what you say.

If the alternator is charging Ok and your connections are all sound then there are two other possibilities.

Firstly, you could have an excess drain on the system when the car's laid up. The best way of measuring this is with a current meter in series with the battery - you have to be careful when doing this: Turn off everything e.g. courtesy light, doors shut, lock the car (but with the bonnet up), bridge the meter set to current (10A range then repeat procedure on 200mA range) between battery -ve terminal and -ve lead to chassis and then separate the battery terminal from the -ve lead to the chassis - so the current then diverts through the meter. Take the reading then reconnect the battery chassis -ve lead to the battery before disconnecting the meter (or changing range). You don't want to disconnect the car from the battery at any time, or if you do you also don't want to reconnect the car through the meter or you may blow the meter's fuse due to the inrush current on system start up.

Secondly, you may have suffered from a low capacity battery initially due to damage from accumulated long periods of lay up with no charging. The battery can become sulphated if allowed to run low on charge many times and lose capacity. When the capacity gets too low you lose the ability to turn the engine over on the starter for long enough before voltage collapse and even leaving the radio on or the ignition on for a few minutes too many before starting can leave you without enough charge to start the engine. Once started of course, it should be Ok but if the journey is short it again does not get to full charge and so the damage and living on the edge continues.

What could also have happened is that the new battery was not fully charged when you first fitted it and went flat, although this would be unusual as new batteries are initially charged fully and should not be on the shelf for too long slowly discharging - but it's a possibility it could have drained on the shelf and is now Ok - depending on you giving it the right conditions to fully charge.

If you don't use the car often enough to recover from the drain of starting and idle periods of drain then you could invest in a temperature compensated trickle charger such as an Accumate.


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## crookie (Dec 6, 2011)

Thanks for your reply.

The battery is brand new, only about 4 weeks old.

I would leave it on a trickle charger normally but unfortunately it lives in an underground car park with no owner sockets...

After a 4 hour journey on Tuesday, the battery showed 'ok' when tested. However just gone to use the car today (4 days later) and the battery has gone again. The electrics still worked but there's not enough to turn the car over... The battery tester shows charge at 60%. Surely this means there is a drain on the battery? Despite the garage saying they have tested the car and there is no drain (I still wonder if they have tested the car without the it locked and in which case if it is the alarm draining it wouldn't show.

Or is the alternator regulator that seems to be fairly common on MK1 TT's... Where's the cheapest place to buy these.

Is becoming increasingly frustrating as literally have a car that I can use!

Thanks for your help on here guys!


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## crookie (Dec 6, 2011)

Sorry should have said - the testing it with the multi meter option isn't viable at the mo as don't have one. That's the next. Purchase, haves always had to borrow them in the past!


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, Battery & charging volts appear O.K. Have you disconnected the alarm siren, as that may be causing the battery drain.
Access from flap on passenger side of boot or remove passenger side rear light for access. Check the alarm connection plug as well as the corrosion can travel up the cable & cause battery drain there as well.
Hoggy.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

What's the battery tester you are using? If the capacity was really 60% it should start fine.

It does sound like you have a drain somewhere or your alternator is occasionally failing to charge when you are not looking.

Next time you drive it keep the climate control showing volts and keep looking at it throughout the journey. If it stays a healthy 13.5V to14V then it's charging fine. There is a possibility it could be back draining.

Does your alarm siren work? If not unplug it as that could possibly be causing a drain. Unfortunately the dashpod is also a drain contender but so are other things however you need to isolate them one by one to find them and the quickest way is with a multimeter and pulling fuses etc.


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## crookie (Dec 6, 2011)

John-H said:


> What's the battery tester you are using? If the capacity was really 60% it should start fine.
> 
> It does sound like you have a drain somewhere or your alternator is occasionally failing to charge when you are not looking.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the responses. I think I have found the culprit. Charged the battery back up to 100% on friday night ready for a 1hr30 journey on Sat. Kept the climate control reading on the journey, at first it was reading around 13v, but gradually dropped to around 11.9v. The only electrical thing on was the radio.
When I arrived at my destination I checked the battery and it read 60%. This therefore must be the voltage regulator?

Hope you agree as am about to buy a new one 

Thanks
John


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

It does sound the most likely now. Details for replacement are in the Knowledge base including a good video.


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## stillchillin (Oct 29, 2009)

On the subject of battery drain , not that I think this is your problem . When I bought my first TT the owner a Mechanic had just had the dash pod repaired due to it draining the battery . I 've never heard of this since on the forum though . I hope you get your problem sorted soon .


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## crookie (Dec 6, 2011)

Thanks John-H - that video is great. Thought I'd need special tools but actually looks quite straight forward to change (although it is of course easier when the alternator isn't in the engine bay


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## Matt_McT (Jul 23, 2014)

Hi all, how do you use the climatronic code check ? Thanks


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## asahartz (May 24, 2014)

Instructions on Wak's site: http://www.wak-tt.com/climate/climatecodes.htm


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Matt_McT said:


> Hi all, how do you use the climatronic code check ? Thanks


Hi, This is more accurate.....



Hoggy.


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## Matt_McT (Jul 23, 2014)

Ok thanks a lot.

Matt


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## maytag (Feb 12, 2016)

Hello there. I have a similar issue going on. Purchased '00 TT Roadster 1.8 2 months ago. drove it with no issues for several weeks until weather hit, has now been sitting for 2 months. Battery is completely flat. no measureable voltage last night. After 24 hours on the charger, reading less than 1volt. 
I hooked-up jumper cables to my other vehicle. Reading 14.5v at the cables, but when attached to the battery, it drops to zero. after double checking the voltage, it suddenly jumped to 12v. I turned the key in the ignition and it went immediately flat. Again, measuring ZERO voltage at the battery. Oddly, a few minutes later it jumped back to 14 volts. Same story: the moment I twisted the key to "on" (not even "start) it went dead.

So I removed the battery cables from the posts. The battery is accepting a measureable charge, but when I attach the "jumper" cables to the + & - caables for the car, the measured voltage drops to zero again.

After reading, I'm wondering if it's possible that my voltage regulator is bad, and is shorting to ground? is there a way to test my theory? Can I disconnect the voltage regulator and test the ignition to be sure this is the issue?

any help is appreciated.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

There are a couple of more likely things. One is that your battery is damaged from being flat for so long. The other one is that your jump leads have a bad connection.

If your leads were good they should supply hundreds of amps so there's no way the voltage should drop to zero. Are they aluminium cored? These were notorious for going open circuit but even copper ones can fail.

You should be able to turn your lights and ignition on straight away with the cables connected to abother car with a good battery - it's only the starter that may be too heavy a load to function immediately but should make an attempt at least to turn over depending on how thick your leads are. Ones as thick as welding cables will start a flat battery car but thinner "boost" cables may be too thin and may not turn over the engine on the starter properly and may even go pop and burn out of cheap when attempting. Perhaps yours already have?

Have you got an "automatic" charger that disconnects when the battery is fully charged via an internal relay? They are often higher current such as 10 or 20 Amps. They often need more than a few volts on the battery to start charging in the first place and refuse to do anything with a completely flat battery. If it's one of these you may kick start the charging process by connecting your jumper leads at the same time for a moment. Once it has volts it will latch the relay closed and continue to charge.

If the charger is only a trickle charger and the battery is damaged the charger may not be powerful enough to force the voltage up.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, Remove cables from TT battery & connect them to jump battery, via jump leads, any difference.Does it turn over & start. If it does proves TT battery is dead. Replace battery..
Don't disconnect jump battery when engine running.
"Fuse" usually means low volts.

Hoggy.


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## maytag (Feb 12, 2016)

John-H, there's some good stuff in your post. My charger IS in fact a "Float" charger. I did not realize that it needed to see some minimal voltage to kick the relay. This explains some other anomalies I was frustrating with. 
12 hrs additional on just the battery, and I'm still only at 4 volts. I suspect this battery is in deed toast.

Hoggy, you may note in my post that I tried your suggested method, and got NOTHING. However; I think this is more likely due to John-H's suggestion that my jump cables might be questionable. (by the way, I'm piggy-backing on this old thread, because it is so similar, but I never saw a "fuse" light. this was rather sudden.)

Tonight I'll try a fresh battery and see where we go.

Thanks all.


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