# Getting Paid to Smoke at Work



## sTTu (May 7, 2002)

Just curious, I'm putting together some amendments to staff contracts and need some help from you smokers out there 

When on a *** break are you getting paid for it ? I understand that a company is not required to pay you for the time you are puffing away. ie: you spend 2 x 10 mins a day having a *** so, 20mins x 5 days = 100mins x 52weeks = 86.66 hrs of working time per year that you aint getting paid for, is that right ?

sTTu


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

do you get paid to have a piss [smiley=smoking.gif]


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## chip (Dec 24, 2002)

I'm a smoker, and would normally take approx 3 *** breaks per day. Yes, I get a fixed daily salary, but any extra time I work over the obligatory 7 hours are unpaid. Since I am in the office min 10-11 hours per day, (for any legal eagles out there, I've been "opted" out of the 48 hours working hours per week ruling due to my position) I would be most p&ssed if they waved a new contract under my nose with this "*** break" clause. Basically, if you treat people like children, they will behave like one i.e work the 7 hours and bugger off home. However, if I was paid for overtime, then I would be happy to 1) work the extra 30 mins or 2) take a 30 mins lunchbreak (not that I get one currently) instead of 60 mins. Can't say fairer than that? Saying that, I don't think you will find many people agreeing with my views.

Anyway, I wish you luck if you plan to introduce this new clause into your staffs contracts. Be interesting to hear your staffs feedbacks! Note. your most productive workers could be smokers and they may feel discriminated, which may have a negative impact to your Company.


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## Major Audi Parts Guru (May 7, 2002)

We all piss,but we don't all smoke [smiley=pimp2.gif] ;D


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

The councils wanted to make smoking employees work extra. Also some factories they didn't allow people to go for a piss, but they had to wait for the normal break.

In a professional environment there are no restrictions like these. Especially as chip said, when you are not paid overtime and you work extra hours anyway.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> Just curious, I'm putting together some amendments to staff contracts and need some help from you smokers out there
> 
> When on a *** break are you getting paid for it ? Â I understand that a company is not required to pay you for the time you are puffing away. Â ie: you spend 2 x 10 mins a day having a *** so, 20mins x 5 days = 100mins x 52weeks = 86.66 hrs of working time per year that you aint getting paid for, is that right ?
> 
> sTTu


Sounds like a great place to work........ :-/


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## newcasTTle (Nov 29, 2002)

> In a professional environment there are no restrictions like these. Especially as chip said, when you are not paid overtime and you work extra hours anyway.


this assumes a professional and that people won't take the piss with breaks etc - unfortunately not everybody has the luxury of being treated or behaving like an adult ;D


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## mike_bailey (May 7, 2002)

Surveys have often shown that smokers are more productive because they take regular breaks. I think you could be allowing a personal loathing to skew your judgement sTTu as I reckon even non-smokers will be saying "what next?" (and I'm a non-smoker who hates being anywhere near smokers).


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## Antwerpman (Nov 4, 2002)

If you have an issue like this, which could potentially develop a lot of resentment, then the best thing to do is to speak to the people concerned. Maybe they have a suggestion which would allow you to feel that they were not ripping you off time-wise and them to feel that they had been part of the solution and not 'the problem'.


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## r1 (Oct 31, 2002)

How anal is that.

Are you also going to introduce a clause whereby the employees have time clocks that they clock in and out of when they are talking about something non work related?


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## sTTu (May 7, 2002)

> do you get paid to have a piss Â [smiley=smoking.gif]


Interesting comments, thing is you have to piss, you don't have to smoke !

Yep you're right I don't like smoking, its a filthy habit, but thats my opinion and wether or not I like it people will do it so thats fine but......

The point I'm investigating is to do with fairness rather than ruffing up the smokers ! I accept that they want to smoke, but its the non smokers that are the problem. Non smokers in the office have already commented that they feel hard done by Mr A "The Smoker" gets to sit on the wall three times a day while they don't and this was a guy on a tempory contract for 12 weeks.

General office mentality is a wierd thing, a situation arose not long ago where a new 17" monitor was given to a member of staff as their 15" (which has been standard around the office) had failed. This caused an uproar, the whole "they've got something more than me" issue kicked off big time and we had to get three more 17" monitors just to shut them up.

I suspect that many of you here on this forum operate at a much high level of responsibility with relative freedom in your working day, you go for a *** no-one worries as you may stay on until 7/8/9/10pm to finish project, a much different set upto the average office workers day.

I'd be interested to hear how other employers (preferably non-smokers) deal with smoking breaks, like it or not it is an issue, work a week in a call centre and see how your *** breaks pan out ;D

I have no problem with people having *** breaks so lets not get all defensive ! But a working environment has to be fair to all and often its the non-smokers that feel hard done by.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/257277.stm

Anyone here who has employed more than a handfull of staff will understand my problem.

sTTu


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## garvin (May 7, 2002)

> Anyone here who has employed more than a handfull of staff will understand my problem.


Understand it completely.

We used to tolerate it in the work place ....... then we canvassed opinion and the vast majority did not want smoking to be allowed in the working environment so then we provided smoking rooms (expensive or what) before removing these and declaring all buildings to be no smoking areas. Now if you want to smoke you can but you have to stand outside .......... the smokers are patently obvious now and the standing around 'dragging' away does ensure that they only break for a ciggie when they absolutely have to ..... especially when its bloody freezing or pissing down with rain! No complaints from the smokers at all .............. parking on the other hand .........


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> Interesting comments, thing is you have to piss, you don't have to smoke ! Â


You could always issue all staff with catheters and install emptying points in the car park. That way they could empty on the way to or from work and all add valuable minutes to the corporate effort each day when they might be pissing.

How do do stand if people want to nip off for a quick sherman mid morning? 

I never count the time with my staff - just the overall productivity - ie getting the job done. As soon as an employer starts giving mean time-watching signals - productivity generally suffers and your over-givers (those who routinely put in that bit extra) can get turnes off.

Anyway - if one can do a job in half the time of another, why shouldn't that person smoke, browse, eat, jog etc?


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## r1 (Oct 31, 2002)

> .......... the smokers are patently obvious now and the standing around 'dragging' away does ensure that they only break for a ciggie when they absolutely have to ..... especially when its bloody freezing or pissing down with rain!


 :


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## mike_bailey (May 7, 2002)

I've had my own business for 11 years and employ 20 people, I'm probably lucky but I've never heard of resentment about smoking breaks but I must admit the "superior" monitor and mouse argument does occur sometimes.

I also use contractors and I usually judge them on results - I've never even considered smoking breaks as a problem. I've heard that permanent staff sometimes resent contractors because they make "huge bucks" and I suspect that the smoking break resentment is a sympton of that insecurity.

Also, as part of building a healthy business culture I actively encourage my staff to take regular breaks, be it coffee or anything else, as a lot of important communication takes place that wouldn't otherwise. People need to learn to talk to each other - too much time is spent in silence in front of a monitor. Poor communication is probably the underlying problem that causes rules like this to be considered.

So IMHO I don't think this would be a wise move sTTu (as long as the buggers don't sit next to me in a restaurant!).


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

In my previous job I was just about the only non-smoker in the office. In order to avoid the "resentment factor" whenever the guys went out for a *** break, I went with them (as long as it wasn't pissing it down with rain). We talked about non-work related things that were happening e.g. the football etc and then at the end of the break went back to work.

I did stand upwind though....


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## phil (May 7, 2002)

So how many people at your work piss about on the TT forum all day?


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## Antwerpman (Nov 4, 2002)

I go back to my original point - talk to them, the smokers and the non-smokers together and arrange a solution that is mutually agreeable to all.

If you devise the solution you are going to be imposing your will upon someone and they are going to resent you for it, so don't!


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## newcasTTle (Nov 29, 2002)

what about people with kids ??? leave early to pick them up for this and that, time of when they're sick or dentist etc, "pivotal development moments" ie piss of to see the school play - shirkers the lot of them! ;D


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## bash-the-monkey (Jun 5, 2002)

i'm still giggling cos some mentioned Anal in this thread ;D ;D ;D ;D

Bash
www.bashthemonkey.com

PS also **** were mentioned *chortle* ;D


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## garvin (May 7, 2002)

> I actively encourage my staff to take regular breaks, be it coffee or anything else, as a lot of important communication takes place that wouldn't otherwise. People need to learn to talk to each other - too much time is spent in silence in front of a monitor. Poor communication is probably the underlying problem that causes rules like this to be considered.


Yes, I agree entirely ..... however, the problem with smokers/non smokers is that they form their own little 'cliques' if smoking is allowed anywhere where the smokers congregate together and the non-smokers congregate together but seaparately (for obvious reasons) so the communication is not really as it should be. We have now put in 'cafe' style tables and chairs/stools around the coffee 'machines' and included 'kitchen' type areas in all our buildings to encourage a more informal and comfortable working atmosphere for those who want to take advantage of it ..... but they are still non-smoking areas.


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

you are legally entitled to 2 breaks a day (i think excluding lunch) what you choose to do with them is upto you.

However as with everything in some cases its open to abuse , i see people taking upto 10 breaks a day...they are just sciving!
My policy is id rather work through (drinking coffee at my desk) and leave marginally early quoting the fact I didnt take 10 *** breaks today !

again legally speaking if someone doesnt meet the deadlines or after 3 warnings they still dont perform then kick them out. If they are doing a good job with 5 breaks a day so what , give them more to do !!!


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## sTTu (May 7, 2002)

> you are legally entitled to 2 breaks a day (i think excluding lunch) what you choose to do with them is upto you.


I think thats wrong, on the ACAS web site it says this about breaks:

*A worker has the right to a break of 20 minutes if required to work continuously for more than six hours. The break should be taken during the six hour period and not at the beginning or the end of it.*

Can any legal eagles here clarify, I alway thought that VDU operators were entitled to more breaks .

sTTu


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## chip (Dec 24, 2002)

dunno about breaks, but I know definitely that they are entitled to a free eye test.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

What if you have an office area for smokers? Isolate this area with glass and allow them to smoke as much as they want whilst they work on their desks?


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## 55JWB (May 7, 2002)

Its Non-Smoker discrimination, thats what it is


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## sTTu (May 7, 2002)

> Its Non-Smoker discrimination, thats what it is


Thats my exactly my point from the outset.

sTTu


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

I thought the law was you are entitled to a 15 min break after working for four hours!

However what about the people who dont smoke do they get up and rest whilst making a coffee and hanging about for the kettle to boil because this is the equivilant and also do the smokers also do this aswell as hang about in the wet, wind and cold puffing away.

I dont smoke and everybody I work with is always always taking ciggie breaks whilst I am still working hard along with other non smokers. In my view for every ciggie break they take I should get up and stand with them with a pen in my mouth so I can have this break too to escape from work a bit. :


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

Its also against my Human rights to not allow me to have a smoke.
I tend to have one break and lots of little 5 min ones for my addiction.
Seems u should also look at people who surf the net and use forums in works time ;D


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

LOL Well I admit I surf the net and come on the Forum in my own home in my own time and at my own leasure ;D.


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## jgoodman00 (May 6, 2002)

> I dont smoke and everybody I work with is always always taking ciggie breaks whilst I am still working hard along with other non smokers. In my view for every ciggie break they take I should get up and stand with them with a pen in my mouth so I can have this break too to escape from work a bit. Â :


I think somebody got sacked for doing this a few months back...


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

As a non-smoker I'd just like to thank all the smokers.

If it wasn't for them I wouldn't be able to take a break and have a game of table football when ever I feel like it.

If anyone ever asks, I'm on a *** break. ;D


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## pgm (May 7, 2002)

> I've had my own business for 11 years and employ 20 people, I'm probably lucky but I've never heard of resentment about smoking breaks but I must admit the "superior" monitor and mouse argument does occur sometimes.
> 
> I also use contractors and I usually judge them on results - I've never even considered smoking breaks as a problem. I've heard that permanent staff sometimes resent contractors because they make "huge bucks" and I suspect that the smoking break resentment is a sympton of that insecurity.
> 
> ...


What a cool boss you are Mike! You probably get a lot of respect and better productivity as a result.
[smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## Dubcat (Jun 10, 2002)

You employ people to be productive so measure them on their productivity, not on how long they sit at a desk. Non smokers will just find other ways of wasting time. By clamping down on the smokers you are likely to make them less productive due to lower moral etc.

As for people standing outside with a pen in their mouth, this too is fine as long as they are productive to the levels you expect. Chances are however, they will find other ways to waste time with their non-smoker friends (around the water cooler etc) and will also waste time with their smoker friends


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## mike_bailey (May 7, 2002)

sTTu, this is a superb posting because it really has engaged forum folks. I love talented people whether they smoke or not (I used to smoke) but I think smoking is the least of our problems. We must:

- make hay
- include everybody we value in the sowing and harvest of the stuff.

So there you go, the first successful conclusion to a TT forum posting Â 

On the other side, smoking will accelerate your death if you're a heavy drinker as well. Brings it home doesn't it Â ;D

ps do people think I'm too happy in me sig pic, I'm so bloody miserable in real life!?


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

Sacked for standing with a pen in your mouth! LOL heard it all now! Not that I would try it anyway !


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## racer (Feb 3, 2003)

I love smokers they pay loads of tax on their ****, are good for gossip [smiley=gossip.gif] and die early [smiley=skull.gif] leaving more final salary pension for clean living guys like me. On the other hand however there should be complementary mints for them to freshen their ashtray breath with before they come back in the office. ;D


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

> there should be complementary mints for them to freshen their ashtray breath with before they come back in the office. ;D


You don't have to kiss them...you know!! ;D


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## nickyb (Dec 29, 2002)

I think in some ways you are doing the smokers a favour.

*Smoking Kills*......its as simple as that.

some of us just need to keep repeating that advice to others who take their time before listening or end up paying the consequences of what we already knew :-/

Research says it takes the average smoker 7 attempts before they finally succeed in stopping, you could help them reach the lucky 7 quicker.

Anger sometimes prevokes energy (in the optomist) whether it is to move on to a new employer (perhaps they were deliberating it anyway!) or whether to "have another go" at stopping.

Good Luck Stu, you are helping their health...if not now, then in the future.


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## vagman (Sep 6, 2002)

> You don't have to kiss them...you know!! Â ;D


Nice one Vlastan. ;D I didn't know you did comedy.


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## racer (Feb 3, 2003)

> You don't have to kiss them...you know!! Â ;D


If they had that rule where you work I'm sure it would prompt quite a few to give up. [smiley=pimp2.gif] ;D ;D


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

out of interest do u smokers know how much you stink?! I hate it even more when its mixed up with perfume in am attempt to hide it ... even more gross!!


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