# DSG Stronic best practices



## Hadaak (Dec 25, 2008)

Not sure I posted anything similar but here is how I treated my first DSG box from 2004 to 2009 and how I have been treating my Stronic since 2009. I haven't had any issues with both boxes. Might be luck or best practices or both 

1. I drive most of the time in D mode. 
2. When going out of an underground parking I always put the lever in manual mode, not with paddles as it goes to second as soon as the car starts moving. This makes the box stick to first. I learned this when my first box almost stalled going up out of a 3 floors parking.
3. When I want to play with S I shift the lever into S and wait for the sound feedback before flooring it  
4. when I want to use M I accelerate a little bit to wake up the mechatronic brain before shifting. I have noticed (even with my former DSG box) that sometimes the box takes a second or two to react when going into M. accelerating a bit avoids this lap.
5. I don't use the paddles as a brake pedal (engine brake through downshifting), only in extreme cases 
6. I don't let the box crawl in slow traffic or even when backing out of my parking. I always accelerate a bit. 
7. When I come to a traffic light when it's turning Red I go into N. My trick for traffic lights is this: if the pedestrian light is green I go to N. When the pedestrian light goes to Red I go into D after 5 or 6 seconds. totally crazy, isn't it? This gives the Box a few seconds to go into D and engage the cluch before releasing the brake pedal and accelerating when the light is green. I do this because If I go into D and accelerate right after I noticed a small jerk, which is normal I suppose.
8. When I park the TT the steps are: Stop the car, go into N, engage the handbrake to max, go into P. This secures the box from people pushing your TT when parking in front of you. and sometime behind you. This also applies to parking on a slope or hill. This prevents the box from going into a security lock and makes it easy to go from P to D when leaving.

yours are welcome...


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## moro anis (May 27, 2010)

What about crawling in traffic? 
Do you keep your foot on the brakes or select neutral each time depending of course on the frequency of the stop start?


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## planman (Sep 15, 2002)

Totally endorse everything you said Hadaak. Cant wait to meet up sometime.


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## Hadaak (Dec 25, 2008)

moro anis said:


> What about crawling in traffic?
> Do you keep your foot on the brakes or select neutral each time depending of course on the frequency of the stop start?


Yeah forgot about that one and a bunch of others ! will update the list


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## Hadaak (Dec 25, 2008)

planman said:


> Totally endorse everything you said Hadaak. Cant wait to meet up sometime.


Cheers


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

I do exactly the same, especially into N at lights and change to D a few secs after green man goes off.

Did he same with last autos (Honda & Lexus) not DSGs but seemed to work.


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## JBTT (Jun 14, 2010)

A la presentation de la DSG les ingés d'Audi disaient de laisser " D " tout le temps parce que le " N " n'est pas fait pour être enclenché moteur en route.

UK : I went to the Audi DSG presentation and they said to leave it in " D " when the engine is on because the " N " was not made to be used engine running.


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## Hadaak (Dec 25, 2008)

Mmm ! Sounds more like no N when car is rolling !!!


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## Pale Rider (Nov 15, 2011)

JBTT said:


> A la presentation de la DSG les ingés d'Audi disaient de laisser " D " tout le temps parce que le " N " n'est pas fait pour être enclenché moteur en route.
> 
> UK : I went to the Audi DSG presentation and they said to leave it in " D " when the engine is on because the " N " was not made to be used engine running.


Is that true? It says in the manual that you shouldn't put the car into "N" when it's moving - although it later says that the car can be towed in neutral. I always put it into neutral if I'm in heavy traffic or have a long wait at the lights. If the S-Tronic isn't designed for this they would warn against it in the manual, surely.


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## 4carl (Dec 11, 2012)

Bottom line the less the DSG shifts the longer it will last. In D it up shifts too much and in sport it down shifts to much. M is the best for the least ware and to be in the correct gear. I really wish in the US the car came with a std 6 speed box. I find the DSG isn't a great auto box or a great STD box. Carl


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## GreyhoundTT (Nov 30, 2012)

Great post. Useful stuff.

Has anyone else noticed that if you stop at the lights in D and only slightly press the brake pedal (see below) while stationary then the car pulls off much better than if you had the footbrake full on. Also I have got used to pumping the footbrake before leaving on a journey just to make sure it bites quickly and there is no chance of brake sponginess - which there never is but it's a habit.

Makes me think there are 2 positions on the brake light switch (or a pressure sensor of some type) so the system knows how hard you are pressing the brake pedal and the first position - least pressure - seems to allow the clutches to bite a bit so no lag when taking off again. Press harder and the clutches are totally disconnected and thus it takes a fraction longer to pick up the drive again? Don't know if this is the case but it feels like it to me.

By slightly press i mean barely press it - but enough to stop forward creep on the flat and rollback on an uphill slope.

Has anyone else noticed this?


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

This has been covered in depth in previous posts, as you can probably imagine.

Bottom line is the clutch is always biting to a degree in D, no matter how hard you press the brake pedal, hence why you should only stay in D for a short time. I normally allow 10-15 seconds if I can see I'll be moving again shortly, otherwise I select N. And never EVER leave it in D while using the handbrake only :wink: .

For smoothest take off lift you foot off the brake and wait a second or two before going for the throttle to allow the clutch time to fully engage.

Agree the most efficient way to drive is to use M most of the time, although there are some subtle differences in the way the 6-speed and 7-speed versions of the gearbox work that affect [my] driving style.


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## 4carl (Dec 11, 2012)

Agree the most efficient way to drive is to use M most of the time, although there are some subtle differences in the way the 6-speed and 7-speed versions of the gearbox work that affect [my] driving style.[/quote]

I'm sure the 7 speed is more refined than the 6. Another benifit of the M mode is the box doesn't downshift till almost a full stop. Because the downshifts come at a lower speed there is a lot less strain on the clutch packs. If you track a dsg the box gets hot in sport mode lots of down shifts at high speeds. Your much better off in M the box will run cooler- less high stress down shifts. Carl


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

powerplay said:


> This has been covered in depth in previous posts, as you can probably imagine.
> 
> Bottom line is the clutch is always biting to a degree in D, no matter how hard you press the brake pedal, hence why you should only stay in D for a short time. I normally allow 10-15 seconds if I can see I'll be moving again shortly, otherwise I select N. And never EVER leave it in D while using the handbrake only :wink: .
> 
> ...


Had 2 Autos and now the DSG, and all dealers, Honda, Lexus & Audi, said same as above when I picked the car up. If short stop, lights about to change then leave in D. If more than 20 secs then drop into N, move back into D just before you hit the go pedal, but wait a couple of secs to let clutch engage.


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## RogerB (Dec 16, 2012)

It's an interesting thread and I agree totally with Hadaak's opinions about keeping DSG "abuse" to a minimum.
But with regard to the clutch packs themselves ... you have to remember that the DSG box utilises 2 shafts on which any one is fully engaged with a gear according to roadspeed, at any one time ... and the gear only upshifts or downshifts once the mechatronic unit has seen the gear as selected and meshed and ready for the shift. So in other words technically speaking the clutch packs themselves should not come under any excess friction, as they are fully engaged according to optimum geartrain/ engine revolutions.
Even in manual mode and paddle use, the revs are blipped on the downshift to match the speed of transmission shafts v engine speed.
The shifts then occurr according to throttle/roadspeed/engine revolution/gearbox mode settings etc. ....
Keeping the box in drive at the lights, with brakes on, would heat up the box gradually, and as said, not recommended.

To my mind when you consider the methods of the DSG and its workings, the most abusive mode one can select in my view is the launch control method ... that sees fairly high engine revs, box engaged and brakes on ... as the gearbox casing and drivetrain has to take the full load of the sudden lurch to launch the car forward. Personally I never use it. 

The most fuel efficient way of using the box is D.... as it's programmed that way, and clearly being in 6th at 35 odd mph isn't taxing the drivetrain either.


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## migzy_1 (Mar 10, 2013)

this post already caused an argument with the missus, she's driving the car, stops at traffic lights and leaves the car in D. I tell her to put it in N, she starts arguing that she doesn't have to, as she's always leaves her bosses car in D and so does her boss.

well after a much heated discussion I did get my way in the end.

It would be nice to actually get the official position from Audi.

Ta

Migzy


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

migzy_1 said:


> this post already caused an argument with the missus, she's driving the car, stops at traffic lights and leaves the car in D. I tell her to put it in N, she starts arguing that she doesn't have to, as she's always leaves her bosses car in D and so does her boss.
> 
> well after a much heated discussion I did get my way in the end.
> 
> ...


There is a learning curve here.
If the "other" car is a regular torque-converter automatic (and not an automated manual as with the DSG) then holding the car stationary with the brake is just fine, with a torque converter there is no physical connection to the engine (except with some designs when shaft speeds are matched).


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

4carl said:


> I'm sure the 7 speed is more refined than the 6. Another benifit of the M mode is the box doesn't downshift till almost a full stop.


That's certainly the case when in D, however in M the downshift to first gear happens at about 6mph in the 6-speed, and a frankly stupid 10mph in the 7-speed.


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## Hadaak (Dec 25, 2008)

Agree with the above. In D you're always in second till the car comes to a full stop. try this: start moving the car slowly in D and see it change to second then shift the lever to the M position and it will show first instead of second !!!! Mine is a 6 speed (2009) model.


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## IC_HOTT (May 29, 2010)

Overtaking . .

What's your opinions on best way to overtaking eg at 40 , 50 or 60 with the DSG 
Not just for speed but for minimum delay and max confidence :wink:

Leave In D and just floor it
Slip into S and floor it
Or in M and drop to eg 4 or 5 and floor it
Or other


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## moro anis (May 27, 2010)

Doesn't flooring it automatically select the right gear for a swift overtake?
Isn't S the same it just holds on to the revs longer?
Selecting M and flicking down a couple with the paddles seems to give plenty of poke too.


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## zinga79 (Oct 3, 2012)

I usually leave in drive but will use the paddles for down shifts to overtake or if I want to hold in a certain gear a few extra seconds. I rarely shove the gear lever into M mode and always use the paddles for over-ride. I always end up doing 40 or 50 in 4th and then need to hold the right paddle to drop back into 6th in auto mode.

Reading all the above comments makes me think I am not using best practise :lol:

Also I frequently short shift up with the paddles... Am I on a DSG malfunctioning highway to hell


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## moro anis (May 27, 2010)

I think if you don't rag it continuously or seriously subject it to sudden forces, it should be up for it.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

The VAG have produced a box for the average driver.
There's good stuff and bad stuff with the driving experience.

I wish some one would come out with an OBD2 box of tricks that allows a level of tuneability, within certain limits that allows the owner to tweak shift points up or down to try and maximise the driving experience.

However there are tuning houses out there that will customise your DSG/S-Tronic boxes at a cost.
Instead of all wining about it, do something about it.
Steve


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

According to Audi of America, it is not necessary to select N when stopped. I emailed them specifically to ask this question.

I did make a habbit of selecting N at long lights anyway. I can't see how it could possibly hurt. If N should never be used, why even have it as a selection?

On the other hand, I can see people who don't read threads such as this falsly assuming that they should leave the car in N as long as possible for maximum DSG preservation. Perhaps there's more damage made to the DSG when you go quickly from N to D to deep throttle without giving the clutch plates a chance to preposition compared to leaving the car in D mode. That could explain the more conservative answer from Audi. After all, they only need the DSG to last as least as long as the warranty period.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

MoreGooderTT said:


> According to Audi of America, it is not necessary to select N when stopped. I emailed them specifically to ask this question.
> 
> I did make a habbit of selecting N at long lights anyway. I can't see how it could possibly hurt. If N should never be used, why even have it as a selection?
> 
> On the other hand, I can see people who don't read threads such as this falsly assuming that they should leave the car in N as long as possible for maximum DSG preservation. Perhaps there's more damage made to the DSG when you go quickly from N to D to deep throttle without giving the clutch plates a chance to preposition compared to leaving the car in D mode. That could explain the more conservative answer from Audi. After all, they only need the DSG to last as least as long as the warranty period.


Warranty on the DSG in the States is 10 years, Europe is 3 years manufacturers warranty..go figure.
Steve


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## Hadaak (Dec 25, 2008)

grasmere said:


> Overtaking . .
> 
> What's your opinions on best way to overtaking eg at 40 , 50 or 60 with the DSG
> Not just for speed but for minimum delay and max confidence :wink:
> ...


In my case I accelerate a bit before dropping to lower gear with the paddles. If I downshift without giving it the right pulse I get a delay which is really surprising the first time you experience it ! it's like the car has gone into idle for a second !
Or just pull it to S, wait a second and vrooooooom


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## Hadaak (Dec 25, 2008)

MoreGooderTT said:


> According to Audi of America, it is not necessary to select N when stopped. I emailed them specifically to ask this question.
> 
> I did make a habbit of selecting N at long lights anyway. I can't see how it could possibly hurt. If N should never be used, why even have it as a selection?
> 
> On the other hand, I can see people who don't read threads such as this falsly assuming that they should leave the car in N as long as possible for maximum DSG preservation. Perhaps there's more damage made to the DSG when you go quickly from N to D to deep throttle without giving the clutch plates a chance to preposition compared to leaving the car in D mode. That could explain the more conservative answer from Audi. After all, they only need the DSG to last as least as long as the warranty period.


I'm sure the guy who replied to your request is a DSG expert  Like your request went through all the right channels to the right team


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## IC_HOTT (May 29, 2010)

Hadaak said:


> grasmere said:
> 
> 
> > Overtaking . .
> ...


Thanks hadaak, that surprising delay is what prompted the query so thanks for the tip, I will experiment tomorrow


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Even though the DSG / S-tronic has a dual clutch, there is free play between off and on as there is a gap of 1/4 inch that the mechatronic has to take up the slack ov and this is time dependant. Delay is inherant in the box unless you have had your clutch reshimmed and the free play minimised.
I was running a 9 plate clutch pack where as now im running an 11 plate setup where increase friction plates have been added to increase clamping and also reduced the amount of free space the mechatronic has to fill and pressurise.
Steve


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## richard- (Jul 12, 2011)

Why do audi offer a 10 year warranty in the US and not worldwide?


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

richard- said:


> Why do audi offer a 10 year warranty in the US and not worldwide?


People power wins in the States..
Steve


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## J55TTC (Apr 25, 2005)

I follow the suggestions made in the first post and my golf is currently at the dealer for a new mechatronic unit and gearbox. It's done 36k miles.

Reason for gearbox replacement is worn bearings on the odd gears main shaft.

Thankfully all being done under warantee!


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## Hadaak (Dec 25, 2008)

J55TTC said:


> I follow the suggestions made in the first post and my golf is currently at the dealer for a new mechatronic unit and gearbox. It's done 36k miles.
> 
> Reason for gearbox replacement is worn bearings on the odd gears main shaft.
> 
> Thankfully all being done under warantee!


why would they change the mechatronic if the wear is on the bearings !!!! looks like a bad mechatronic killed the bearings or just a flawed box altogether ! I did 90k km in my old golf and I'm now up to 75k in the TT and no problems... let's hope it lasts


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## J55TTC (Apr 25, 2005)

Not sure if it was the failing mechatronic unit that's buggered the box, vice versa or if its just coincidence. You know what dealers are like - not very forthcoming with information.

In addition to this I had VW do a DSG oil and filter change at 33k miles too!


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## Hadaak (Dec 25, 2008)

130.000 km and rolling. I did the 120.000km DSG oil service myself.


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## Hadaak (Dec 25, 2008)

I'm now at 150.000km.
I noticed that the downshifting from 3 to 2 and 2 to 1 is getting clunky.
The clunk was always there from 2 to 1, not bad but you feel it in the foot.
About two weeks ago I started feeling it getting stronger from 3 to 2. So something is happening there. I'll have to do some research.


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## Hadaak (Dec 25, 2008)

Some info here:

http://www.evosoft.dk/tech.html

_Hard downshifting from 3 to 2 and 2 to 1st gear followed by some loud "clunk" noises. *
Again, this can be caused by sticky N215 / N216 , changing them should help._

Maybe these guys should be replaced at a certain mileage to prevent further damage.

I haven't tried the transmission adaption as I've read it does not help much with this kind of issue. Maybe I'll give it a shot tonight.

I don't have any errors in the transmission module.
I will have to do some vcds logging to see what's going on.


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## Enky08 (Dec 7, 2018)

I was sure that I read something on here that when sitting stationary with D engaged there was about 2psi (can't remember exact figures) generated by the clutch packs which due to them being wet had zero impact on wear as there is not enough friction/heat generated at this point. It was advisable to leave it in D during small stops (traffic lights).

If you shift from D to N and then back again all the time you are engaging and disengaging something which causes more wear than just sitting in D, (maybe not to clutch packs but to other parts of the box).

I have the xtrons obd2 plug in and use it with the torque app. I have sat at a set of lights in D for several minutes and watched the transmission fluid temperature drop several degrees.

In practice though I just shift into N if I am going to be sitting for more than 1 minute. I don't like using M mode when the box as cold as the shifts are harsher than in D until it warms up (doesn't slip clutch at all in M mode compared to D).

How many dsg box failures are down to worn clutch packs? I thought the most common was mechatronics unit and to me that would be aggravated by going from D to N regularly more so than sitting with some small clutch pack slip.


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## BlackTipReefShark (Jun 1, 2016)

i drive it like a manual, how long do you sit at lights with your foot on the clutch? not more than a couple of seconds.

i treat the DSG the same


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## Hadaak (Dec 25, 2008)

I think that mine is just getting tired after 150.000 km. I do about 15-20mn of cold shifting between 1 and 3 before I get to the highway everyday. And most of the city driving is going from D to 4 and back.
Anyone with the same mileage and no noticeable clunk from 3 to 2?
I've always had the occasional 2 to 1 clunk from the beginning (TT bought new).
I discovered today that I have a failing brake servo (hissing sound in the cabin) so the dsg symptoms might also be due to the brake system not working to specs (brake switch and such). 
I did the adaptation but I still notice the 3 to 2 clunk. It's not always there but when it happens you feel it. There no jerking or anything, just a sound and you feel it in the brake pedal.


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## Hadaak (Dec 25, 2008)

For the record here are some values when the box is in N or in D mode (car standing still):
Box is the DQ250


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## Hadaak (Dec 25, 2008)

175.000 km and rolling...


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## Rene Pogel (Aug 27, 2015)

Those of us who have 6 speed DSG boxes often wish we had a 7th gear. I've found a way to do this.

When driving at high speed in 6th gear, shift the box manually into the 7th "racing" gear. It's marked as "R" on the shifter. The noises you'll hear are just the engine and transmission becoming accustomed to this useful trick.

RP


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## Graham'sTT (Dec 6, 2014)

Good one Rene.
Reminded me of this...


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## Hadaak (Dec 25, 2008)

Rene Pogel said:


> Those of us who have 6 speed DSG boxes often wish we had a 7th gear. I've found a way to do this.
> 
> When driving at high speed in 6th gear, shift the box manually into the 7th "racing" gear. It's marked as "R" on the shifter. The noises you'll hear are just the engine and transmission becoming accustomed to this useful trick.
> 
> RP


My R gear does not make the grinding noise anymore :lol: :lol: :lol:


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