# Do you have "dangerous" tyres?



## DavidUKTTS (Jul 8, 2014)

Just spoke to Brian at Camskill - very knowledgeable, been there 11 years.

He was a pains to point out that if I want non-AO marked tyres I need to get my insurer's permission.

Also, he told me AO marked tyres have a different compound/spec to non-AO marked tyres which are otherwise identical, and AO will last for 50%-ish longer than generic tyres.

I wonder if non-AO tyres also invalidate my Audi warranty? I'll ask on Monday when it goes in for the wind noise to be sorted.

Discuss....


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

DavidUKTTS said:


> Also, he told me AO marked tyres have a different compound/spec to non-AO marked tyres which are otherwise identical, and AO will last for 50%-ish longer than generic tyres.


That would indicate stiffer/harder rubber, thus less grip on the road. Talking about dangerous tyres..... I don't think this can be true. I still haven't found out what AO really means when it comes to tyre construction. Perhaps softer side walls in order to get less vibrations.

Talking about vibrations.... if the tyre is not AO and you'd come at an Audi dealer to complain about it, the dealer may immediately claim: it's the tyres. Not our responsibility to fix (free of charge).


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## mickster (Oct 17, 2013)

Sounds like cobblers to me. My car's just passed its MOT (via Audi) with a set of non AO Michelin Primacy 3s; if there was any safety issue surely this would be addressed at MOT time.

When I needed to replace the previous set of contis on mine, my Audi dealer came up with quotes for some Contis, Goodyears & Miche's, none of which were 'AO' designated. I ended up going elsewhere on price, but Audi would've happily sold me a set of non-AO marked tyres.

My insurance policy (Direct Line) also has no mention of manufacturer-coded tyre versions, only that they shoudl be correctly sized, inflated, 'of good quality' & in good repair etc.

My man at our local tyre place said occasionally a manufacturer-coded tyre might have a slightly different feature set than a non-coded version - eg an anti-kerbing extrusion - but that in 9/10 cases the tyres were no different to the non-coded ones. It's primarily just a branding exercise for people who want the peace of mind of having all their parts to be manufacturer branded eg Audi branded oil / screenwash etc.


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

The tyres that are not marked AO,MO etc are not going to be dangerous,so that's rubbish.
Basically the Car manufacturer does a deal with tyre manufacturer who approves that tyre to be a standard fitment .
Hey presto the tyres cost an extra 20 quid,amazing.


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

Sounds like total BS to me. Had a puncture and replaced tyre with same make / size etc, and this guy now reckons my insurance is invalid. Total shite...

If true every tyre place in the country would forever be in court as they are supplying / fitting generic manufacturers tyres, not stamped for particular manufacturers to thousands of cars a day....


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## DavidUKTTS (Jul 8, 2014)

No..no...

Dangerous in that if you have an accident, your insurer isn't going to pay!!!

Sorry, bad wording.

I too had always thought the AO marking was just a profit exercise. Speaking to Brian has changed my mind. He says they ARE different, especially wear-wise, and he sells both types.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Sorry David but your man is wrong


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

David, pop down to your local Audi dealer tomorrow and ask them if all their used cars on the forecourt have AO tyres on them, and explain why. Bet they laugh at you.

Do agree though that manufacturer fitted tyres can be different compounds to aftermarket, as on bikes they generally fit Manufacturer tyres, but the same tyres purchased later are different (normally better grip but not as hard wearing imo)


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## DavidUKTTS (Jul 8, 2014)

Just phoned my local tyre dealer of the last 20+ years and the boss there immediately agreed there is a difference between AO and non-AO tyre compounds. It seems AO has to undergo more stringent tests to satisfy the manufacturer's requirements.

You live and learn.

She has Super Sports on her 135i and says they are brilliant, she'd definitely go for the same again. He hubby (co-boss) has had F1 Asym 2's and they are just about as good, but he commented on driving her car that the Michelins stick to the road like glue!

Oh.. and I phoned my insurers LV and they're fine with non-AO as long as they are correct size and spec/load rating. I noticed today a lot of online sellers have 91Y only whereas 96Y is specified. That would invalidate my insurance.


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## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

Complete load of shit. What if you fit RO1 tyres (also Audi approved), but not AO. It's all marketing. In fact the tyre specialist at my local Audi dealer told me it was a good idea to fit Michelin PSS over the crappy "Audi approved" Toyo T1s

BMW fit PSS to their performance models as standard but they don't have an OE marking


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

Weird post, as have been in numerous car plants, and they tend to buy tyres on bulk contracts and hence will fit different brands from time to time.

As I posted above many bikers are well aware that manufacturer fitted tyres are not always as good as aftermarket tyres branded the same...

I've also been in a few tyre plants over the years, and they spend loads on researching the new tyres, especially the premium manufacturers, and then the car makers bulk buy and often get slightly different compounds. Like most parts on a car, components are often supplied by the cheapest supplier, not necessarily the best one...


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## DavidUKTTS (Jul 8, 2014)

TootRS said:


> Complete load of shit. What if you fit RO1 tyres (also Audi approved), but not AO. It's all marketing. In fact the tyre specialist at my local Audi dealer told me it was a good idea to fit Michelin PSS over the crappy "Audi approved" Toyo T1s
> 
> BMW fit PSS to their performance models as standard but they don't have an OE marking


Audi also approve the Michelin PSS, and loads of others: http://www.audi.co.uk/content/audi/owne ... ation.html

Brian told me BMWs have a star marking of some sort instead of "BO".


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## robokn (Feb 21, 2006)

Never heard so much poo, he is trying to sell you more expensive tyres the bridgestones on my new S4 are not AO


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## Mk2Stu (Jan 12, 2014)

The Pirelli P6's in MO are W rated , exactly the same tyre in AO are Y rated...go figure.
So has anyone _ever_ heard of an insurance company refusing a claim, where correct size, type, load rating and appropriate speed rating has been fitted, but not having the car manufacturers marking.......anyone ?


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## moro anis (May 27, 2010)

Excuse my ignorance but what is AO etc?


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## mickster (Oct 17, 2013)

moro anis said:


> Excuse my ignorance but what is AO etc?


See http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/learn-s ... -side-wall
section on 'Car Maker Specific Markings' [smiley=book2.gif]


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## Cornwall (Apr 8, 2013)

So looking at the Michelin Data from "Mickster's" link

_*Car Maker Specific Tyre Markings*

E.g. MICHELIN Primacy HP MO MO is a Mercedes specific marking
E.g. MICHELIN Pilot Sport PS2 N3 N is a Porsche specific marking
E.g. MICHELINTM ENERGY Saver * * (star) is a BMW specific marking

Some (mainly high performance) *Michelin tyres have specific markings which show that the tyre has been developed to provide optimum performance on models from certain vehicle manufacturers*.

*Michelin tyres with these specific markings are made differently from the equivalent standard tyres.*These tyres are not better or worse than the equivalent standard tyre, *but they differ in the way they behave on the car*. These markings can be found on the sidewall of the tyre, and also on new tyre labels._

It would appear then, particularly as far as Michelin are concerned, that they do manufacture tyres that are different to the standard tyres, not better or worse, just different to suit the particular car.

I would imagine then, that it goes without saying, so do the other tyre manufacturers who supply car companies. I assume?

Well I never, after 43 yrs of driving I've never realised that. I tend to get the best tyres I can afford in the right spec, usually Dunlop / Goodyear and when Winter comes put on my Winter Tyres. I average with my business approx 800 miles a week so I like to look for a tyre that has a high Treadware Index around the 280 -300 mark.

This has made interesting reading for me, as my 1.8 TSFI, which is on its original tyres Bridgestone Potenza's RE050A with the "AO" marking and a Treadware Index of 140, are due for renewing with 17k miles on the clock, well the fronts are, the rears have 4mm of tread yet !!!. As a replacement I was looking at the Goodyear Eagles Assy 2 as a replacement 245x40x18 93Y. I didn't realise that the Bridgestones were marked for the Audi until I looked.

I'm surprised that Bridgestones have lasted this long with a low rating of only 140, so perhaps there may be something in this "manufactured to suit the car" business after all. I don't mind the Bridgestones, but when they wear down, I've found in the past they get a bit noisy, and these have been no exception. Still in light of the info above, I may review my tyre choice just to keep the same make on all round.

I know I have only a little 1.8 TFSI (160bhp) but.....on second thoughts I will probably go with the Goodyears. I like them, they've done me well in the past, and if they don't work out in around 14-18 weeks, when they will probably be due for replacing, I may go back to the Bridgstones.


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

We have those Goodyears on the wife's Civic. I think they are fine tyres. They weren't available in the size for my TT, so I went for Michelin. But else the TT would have been rolling on Goodyears too.

One top tip: don't put BMW spec (* marking) on the Audi, like I did (well found out a week too late  ). The tyres are just too stiff for the Audi's suspension. I now have to under inflate my tyres by 1-2 psi in order to compensate.


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## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

DavidUKTTS said:


> TootRS said:
> 
> 
> > Complete load of shit. What if you fit RO1 tyres (also Audi approved), but not AO. It's all marketing. In fact the tyre specialist at my local Audi dealer told me it was a good idea to fit Michelin PSS over the crappy "Audi approved" Toyo T1s
> ...


That's precisely the point, Audi don't "approve" the Michelin tyre, they just sell it. The AO and RO1 markings are for OE approved tyres that cars come from factory with as the car manufacturer has a deal with the tyre manufacturer.

I've seen many a car for sale at Audi dealerships with different brands of tyre on. Your average Joe wouldn't pay much attention I suspect. Case in point, a pal of mine bought a TT RS from an Audi dealership with a set of Marangoni tyres on. No AO marking or anything. How was he to know what tyres are and aren't "approved". It certainly doesn't void his insurance either. Complete nonsense thread I'm afraid.


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## 90TJM (Sep 30, 2013)

I have had several new cars in recent years and they have all been fitted with different brands of tyre but all made in Poland.I used to deal with a biscuit factory and they only made one type but it was wrapped for all the different supermarkets.I wonder whether tyre production is similar these days.


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

90TJM said:


> I have had several new cars in recent years and they have all been fitted with different brands of tyre but all made in Poland.I used to deal with a biscuit factory and they only made one type but it was wrapped for all the different supermarkets.I wonder whether tyre production is similar these days.


Well taking the biscuit analogy further - there are many brand name food manufacturers who make similar products for supermarkets under their own name and I know some who have said that they use slightly different recipes for the supermarket products. Pending upon which supermarket they may be dearer or cheaper than their own product - but either way slightly different.


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

90TJM said:


> I have had several new cars in recent years and they have all been fitted with different brands of tyre but all made in Poland.I used to deal with a biscuit factory and they only made one type but it was wrapped for all the different supermarkets.I wonder whether tyre production is similar these days.


I don't think so. Continental and Michelin are really two different companies. Firestone was bought by Bridgestone. And Dunlop and Goodyear belong together too. They all have factories scattered all over the place, it probably saves money in the sense that the tyres are produced closer to the car factories. Leading brands often also have budget lines:

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/wh ... brands.htm

We're not at the stage yet where generic (Chinese) factories produce tyres for various brands to various specifications, like they do with jeans, sneakers and electronic equipment such as phones and computers. Perhaps there are still too many secrets in the kitchen of the tyre factory.


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## DavidUKTTS (Jul 8, 2014)

I just spoke to...

David Mullin
Technical Customer Support & Service
Goodyear Dunlop Tyres UK Ltd
08453 453453 option 3

He tells me all tyres are made in accordance with the ETRTO rules: http://www.etrto.org/page.asp?id=1690&langue=EN

This means a generic non-AO 255 35 19 tyre is allowed to be up to around 270mm wide, and is also the reason he receives dozens of calls from Audi owners about wheel arch rubbing on some models, as owners have bought generic tyres and not AO marked ones.

AO tyres are manufactured to Audi's own spec to meet their performance, noise, and comfort criteria and also so as to fit within the wheel arches! So a 255 wide tyre can be up to 4% narrower to accommodate this AND still be within the ETRTO rules. With AO tyres he doesn't get calls about wheel arch rubbing.

*He DOES NOT recommend the Goodyear F1 Assym 2 for Audi vehicles as it does not come with AO markings.*

Instead, he recommended Dunlop Sport Maxx GT as an equivalent spec high performance tyre (same company since 1999).

So, perhaps that should be the Assym 2's off my list. And also the Michelin Super Sport, also not AO marked.

So much for this thread being a load of rubbish? Maybe give him a call if you don't believe me?


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

Be fair mate, your initial post was a tad misleading.

The quality has improved now, after input from a few others as well.


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## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

DavidUKTTS said:


> I just spoke to...
> 
> David Mullin
> Technical Customer Support & Service
> ...


What's the difference between AO and RO1 then?

Also, if i buy an AO marked tyre for a TT, does that mean it perfectly fits an A5 as well based on the performance, noise and comfort criteria?

Your initial post referred to the insurance side of it, which I think we can all conclude is not an issue.


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## mickster (Oct 17, 2013)

DavidUKTTS said:


> I just spoke to...
> 
> David Mullin
> Technical Customer Support & Service
> ...


Hang on, before you claim you've been vindicated, can I point out that the goalposts have moved somewhat since your opening post:

"He was a pains to point out that if I want non-AO marked tyres I need to get my insurer's permission.

Also, he told me AO marked tyres have a different compound/spec to non-AO marked tyres which are otherwise identical, and AO will last for 50%-ish longer than generic tyres.

I wonder if non-AO tyres also invalidate my Audi warranty? I'll ask on Monday when it goes in for the wind noise to be sorted."

- There's been no evidence of needing insurers permission for non AO tyres.
- There's been no evidence of the non AO tyres being made of a different or 'lesser' compound
- There's been no evidence of non AO tyres invalidating Audi's warranty.

And definitely no suggestion that non AO tyres are generally 'dangerous' as per the thread title.

Mr Mullin's response does state that there are size differences beyond the nominal markings in _some specific models_ & brands. And he directs you to an AO marked tyre from his company. Which, naturally, he would. The point remains that tens of thousands of non AO tyres are sold & fitted to TTs every year without incurring any of the problems you initially speculated about.


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## ReTTro fit (Nov 9, 2014)

And he directs you to an AO marked tyre from his company. Which, naturally, he would. The point remains that tens of thousands of non AO tyres are sold & fitted to TTs every year

My view exactly 
The same as AO tyres are whoever audi could get the best deal as a supplier at the time


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## Ziggytt (Sep 9, 2009)

We'll you know the answer, don't buy any insurance off this company&#8230;

It's like saying recently when I got my windscreen cracked, went to Autoglass which were I say extremely good and helpful, but said they wouldn't fit an Audi badged windscreen cos the insurance company only fitted third party ones, so got in touch with LV and said that what I was rubbish and could have which ever one I wanted fitted, which I then did.
If for instance I had gone along to Autoglass who LV sent me to and had a third party screen fitted, then something happened to it, are you then saying that LV wouldn't pay out if I had a claim?
Surely if the tyres are the right size and legal it doesn't matter which make you have fitted as long as they come up to EU standard and the right kite marked etc on them.


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## Mk2Stu (Jan 12, 2014)

You don't get any rubbing with 17's, what ever type you fit [smiley=clown.gif]


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## Cornwall (Apr 8, 2013)

Guys,

I agree about there being hundreds of different brands of tyres out there suitable for Audi TT's or any Audi for that matter. And hundreds of them are driving on such illustrious brands. And as I touched on in my previous reply, after 43 yrs of driving it was the first I had heard about Vehicle Marked Tyres, AO or RO1 etc etc. Could it be that tyres are heading the same way as oils. In other words Tesco's 10w x 40 semi synthetic to suit any vehicle, doesn't cut mustard anymore. Oil manufacturers now have to supply vehicle/manufacturer specific oils VW 504.507 5W x 30 being one in kind. I don't know you tell me. Also I can't see them using Bridgestone AO marked Potenza's on a Bugatti Veyron, get the point, I bet they are stamped BO.

I cover on average 45k-60k miles per annum, and have done for many many years, one can imagine that I have consumed quite a few tyres in my working life, and I have never noticed or asked when tyres were replaced, if they were AO marked or whatever, and I never had any issues with any of them that I can remember. In fact just this last year the previous MK1 TT 3.2 used to devour a set every 13-15 weeks. and I used mainly Dunlops & Goodyears, same manufacturer just different tyres, Goodyear Eff Grips, Dunlop Sport MaXX TT & RT and they were fine. And that goes for the Ford Mondeo's, Jaguar X Type, Alfa Romeo's, VW Passats so on and so that I used to drive. They all did as they were supposed to, some wore out quicker, some were better in the wet than others etc.

But just to touch on a point that was made earlier about being made specifically. Mickster mentioned *" There's been no evidence of the non AO tyres being made of a different or 'lesser' compound* didn't Michelin say just that,they made vehicle specific tyres to the manufacturers specification, also mentioning they were no better or worse, just different, and didn't David Mullin say that *AO tyres are manufactured to Audi's own spec to meet their performance, noise, and comfort criteria*. Could it be that this may only apply, regarding the wheel arch rubbing issue, to a few highly strung models R8's for instance or the Audi Q7's, I don't know, but you can certainly see that this type of logic *"specific tyres for certain manufacturers" *being passed down the line. It may well be the case but I'm sure that it won't affect my 2014 1.8 TSFI to that degree.

As for the Goodyear F1 Assy 2 not being suitable, I don't know. I'm certainly considering them as I mentioned earlier, I'm not that struck on these Bridgestone Potenza's RE050A tyres *(AO's)*. I appreciate Mr Mullin might not recommend them and he's gone with the Dunlops, but lets not forget before we accuse him of trying to sell one of his own, the Dunlops are one of his own, Dunlop & Goodyear are the same company after all.

If we take this to the enth degree, there may be something in this specific tyre pitch, whether it will affect the driving, handling, or ride of my car, would I even notice, I doubt it.

With regards to whether you are insured if you have non AO marked tyres on, and I'm using that marking as an example, I rang my insurers today, we have three different brokers covering our fleet, and two of them had to go away and find out and the third was adamant it wouldn't affect my insurance as long as they were to Audi Spec. In my case 245x40x18 93Y. If they were different because I had changed my wheels to wider ones or bigger or smaller then I must notify them accordingly as it would be classed as a modification. The other two brokers reported back saying as long as they were to Audi Specification for the vehicle in question, my insurance was valid and intact.

So are your tyres dangerous!!! not unless you're running on cross plies or slicks, no they are not. David UKTTS was possibly slightly mis-leading in the title of his thread, I'm sure that wasn't his intention.

I like these type of threads they stir "ze little grey cells" and promote logical thinking and discussion, as long as they don't get into a slanging match that is, and people don't start pointing fingers at someone who has made an effort to bring, what he or she thinks may be of value to the forum. I for one have learnt something, from this thread. I don't necessarily agree with some of the recommendations from the tyre manufacturers. But they do have to be careful what they claim these days, so there may be an element of truth in the matter. It doesn't say we don't have freedom of choice tho' and I for one will be exercising that freedom and getting my Goodyear F1's Assy 2 tyres fitted in the next few weeks.


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## mickster (Oct 17, 2013)

Cornwall said:


> <snip>
> But just to touch on a point that was made earlier about being made specifically. Mickster mentioned *" There's been no evidence of the non AO tyres being made of a different or 'lesser' compound* didn't Michelin say just that,they made vehicle specific tyres to the manufacturers specification, also mentioning they were no better or worse, just different, <snip>


No, Michelin say some vague stuff on their site about their AO tyres being 'made differently', but don't specify in what way. No mention of a different compound. If I was a betting man, I'd bet on them having a very slightly different tread pattern. But just a guess.



Cornwall said:


> <snip>
> I like these type of threads they stir "ze little grey cells" and promote logical thinking and discussion, as long as they don't get into a slanging match that is, and people don't start pointing fingers at someone who has made an effort to bring, what he or she thinks may be of value to the forum. I for one have learnt something, from this thread.


Agreed. Has been a useful thread. Thx to the OP.


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

mickster said:


> No, Michelin say some vague stuff on their site about their AO tyres being 'made differently', but don't specify in what way. No mention of a different compound. If I was a betting man, I'd bet on them having a very slightly different tread pattern. But just a guess.


I'd bet on the difference being that they have two letters on the sidewall ..... "A" and "O" at £10 per letter :roll:


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

There are no differences in tread pattern with Car manufacturer spec tyres.
Like I said, the tyre manufacturer does a deal to supply a tyre,the car manufacturer tests the car and tyres,then they are approved and marked as oem fitment.
Simple example. TTRS plus and a 2.0 TT . fit 19" same tyre Audi spec.
If it was so important there would be a tyre just for the TT RS,not the whole range,
Also the TTRS has had a variety of tyres fitted oem, Michelin,Toyo, Conti.Dunlop
TT MK3 will be on Hankooks,


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## DavidUKTTS (Jul 8, 2014)

As I apologised for before, the title "dangerous" was referring to the danger of not being insured and not being able to claim if non-AO tyres were fitted.

My own insurer, LV, have put in writing they're happy with non-AO, but now Goodyear have alerted me to the fact that their AO tyres are made differently, with different compounds, and possibly of a different width, to non-AO tyres. That once again leads me to question whether non-AO are right for my car.

I emailed Michelin and Continental with the same query about AO/non-AO, as follows. each of their replies appear under:

_"A tyre retailer told me that tyres marked "AO" are approved by Audi to suit their cars, rather than generic non-AO tyres of the same make/type/model. I'm looking at buying Sport Contact 255 35 19 (or "Super Sport" when emailing Michelin) for my Audi TTS and wonder if the AO tyres would be better for me? Could you explain why some are marked AO and others not? Many thanks." _

FROM CONTINENTAL:

Good afternoon David, 
Thank you for your email.
The "AO" or "R01" marking is to represent that that particular tyre is homoligated as an "OE" original equipment fit on the Audi, there may be some minor adjustments as requested by Audi before homoligation. 
In the 255/35 R19 (96Y) ContiSportContact5 we only appear to list the "AO" option 
Best Regards

Ian Jackson
Technical Administrator
Continental Tyre Group Ltd
DC2 Castle Mound Way
Rugby
United Kingdom
CV23 0WB

Direct Line: +44 (0)1788 566240
Fax: +44 (0)1788 517731
E-Mail: administrator.technical @conti.de
Web: http:// http://www.continental-tyres.co.uk

Note the "minor adjustments as requested by Audi" bit.

AND FROM MICHELIN:

Thank you for your enquiry about Michelin Pilot Super Sport Tyres. 
You are correct 'AO' = Audi, all new vehicles from this vehicle manufacturer if the vehicle is OE 'original equipment' the tyres will be marked AO.
The PSS 255/35ZR19(96Y) XL PILOT SUPER SPORT is currently unbadged to so to speak but will be suitable for your vehicle in a set of four. This tyre is for ALL A4 Audi Quattro : TT 2006 + RS4 (B7), A6 S-Line (C6) + A5 S-Line (B8).

Kind Regards
Julie 
Consumer Contact Team
Michelin Tyre Public Limited Company
Registered in England no.84559. Registered office Stoke-on-Trent ST4 4EY.

So... Conti and Michelin say their tyres are OK for my car, that's good, I'm happy.
Goodyear say their F1 Assym 2 aren't.
I'll go with the Michelins I think?


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## arpuc (Jun 14, 2014)

I worked as an insurance underwriter until a few years ago, in all my time in that world I've never heard of a a claim being declined this. I've seen plenty of claims thrown out for non-disclosure of mods, points or fronting but never for buying the wrong tyre. If you stick to the correct size and speed rating they can't do a thing.


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## DavidUKTTS (Jul 8, 2014)

Brian at Camskill mentioned a case where a claims assessor was involved and one of the things he looked for was the BMW star marking on the tyres of a BMW involved in an accident. Why would the insurer be interested in the OEM marking if it makes no difference?

Don't shoot the messenger. This _is_ a discussion forum after all?

I see posts about changing tyre sizes/profiles, wheel sizes, aftermarket wheels, and many times the poster has likely not thought about the "dangers" of rendering their car uninsured. Brian was pointing out it _might_ be an issue, and to check with my insurer. Better safe...


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

In view of the wide range or vehicles produced by Audi with an even wider range of performance characteristics it seems rather odd that one particular tyre modification should be so important or relevant to all of those different vehicles. So what is it about Audis (and Mercs, BMW etc.) that demands this secret tyre mod?
Sorry but I can't really believe all that.


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## moro anis (May 27, 2010)

TT-driver said:


> One top tip: don't put BMW spec (* marking) on the Audi, like I did (well found out a week too late  ). The tyres are just too stiff for the Audi's suspension. I now have to under inflate my tyres by 1-2 psi in order to compensate.


Can you really tell the difference of 1-2psi with any car tryre, let alone one with intentially stiff walls?


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## Cornwall (Apr 8, 2013)

Something that might be of interest in this weird and wonderful thread about cars having specific tyres fitted or should I say recommended.

Remember the MGF, I do, I have one that I've been rebuilding, great fun. Anyway, if you read the MGF Forums the tyre of choice or recommendation by MG Rover as being suitable was a Goodyear F1 GSD2. Then it went out of production to be replaced by the GSD3 which caused a lot of problems, cars ending up in hedges backwards I think etc etc.

So MG Rover carried out a series of road tests and came to the conclusion that the tyres best suited to the MGF (1995-2002) and more so the MGTF (2002-20011) were either *Toyo Proxes TR1 or Falken ZE914's *. There were other tyres around at the time included in that test, MG Rover didn't say they weren't suitable, they only recommended the above. They even sent a bulletin around to their dealers and to the MG Clubs, they were that concerned about it. Search the net makes good reading.

Now when you read the MG Forums the car that seems to suffer the most from not having either of the above on is the MG TF on 16" wheels. People complain of them having a mind of their own, totally undriveable above 70mph, yes they will do 70mph, They have problems if they mix them with other makes on the back or front. on the other hand, the little MGF on 15" wheels doesn't seem to suffer the same way. I've mixed mine and whilst it hasn't felt great I've had no issues. They do wear through rear tyres tho', for a little car 9k-11k miles and down to the canvas is not uncommon!!!

So, yes I'm sure that Audi will have specified a particular tyre so that owners can get the best from the car, in handling, wear and comfort, and these ones carry the infamous *"AO" * letters and are deemed to be the best. Is it perhaps that the others that they tested were not as good, hence why they were not named, I don't know.

As the guys have said on here, there are loads of other makes of tyres found on different Audi models, could it be that whilst my TT came with the Bridgestone Potenza's, an Audi A5 for instance, might be best suited to Michelin's Super Sports for the best all round performance, so on and so forth.

If the tyres were £25 each I would buy a set marked "AO" drive them for a few weeks, take them off and buy a set of unmarked tyres or even a couple of sets, use them over a period of a couple of months and then revert back to the originals to see if I could detect any difference. Trouble is they are a bit more than £25 each, mine have a 1 in front of the 25, so that throws that out of the window.

One thing I do find interesting though is the amount of discussion that this thread has generated. Its funny, one of the things that has the biggest impact on our safety, and something that the manufacturer has recommended is a tyre marked "AO" and its almost treated with contempt along with Winter Tyres. We almost want to say *"get lost I'm going to get some Lingalongs because they look trendy"* , or we buy some tyres that are very reputable because of the advertising blurb and are deemed to be the best, because on our *"sports cars you shouldn't put any old tyre on especially one with the manufacturers AO stamp on"*.

And yet.....when it comes to oil, that crude stuff that comes bubbling up out of the ground , woe betide anybody who should mention that he was thinking of using* Halfrauds 5w x 30 or some Chipoil 5w x 40*, which has no detrimental affect on his safety and is on offer at Aldi / Liddl's for £9.50 and why?, because it doesn't carry the kudos badge of ....*VW 504 507.*

Do you get the point, in one instance we are saying, me included, about their recommended tyre choice *"we don't want to listen to you because we think we know better"* and yet on the other hand should anybody say *"whose or what oil should I use in my Audi, any you like, whether it be Mobil, Shell, Millers, Fuchs, as long as it has VW504 507 on the tin your engine will love you"*

So at the end of it all, are we happy to say we agree with Audi's recommendation of oil as long as it comes with their label of authenticity on the tin. But on the other hand we don't want to agree with their recommendation of tyres, which also comes with a label of Audi authenticity, namely the "AO" stamp. We are a fickle lot when it comes to our pride and joy.

Remember at the beginning, I know it was a while ago, where I mentioned about the MGF and the MG TF being quite critical of the rubber that was used. Well in the same vein, if anybody says he has bought some new tyres for his MG and they are not MG Rovers recommended tyres .... woe betide him., I hope he or she is thick skinned he will be slated. And yet if anybody asks the question "what oil should I use in my MG", 9 times out of 10 the answer will be Semi Synthetic 10w x 40...doesn't matter if its chip oil, Watson's Heating Oil, it just has to be 10w x 40. Same train of thought just the other way round.

When I started off reading this thread and voicing my thoughts, like the rest of you guys, I was happy to to say I knew what was best for my car, now I don't know, will I buy a set of tyres without the "AO" marking. You might as well as ask me would I buy a tin of oil for my TT without the "VW 504 507" marking.

Oh I don't know, when I started driving we only had Goodyear, Dunlop and Michelin tyres and Duckhams 20w 50 oil to chose from.....who started this stupid thread anyway....


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## ratty (May 18, 2004)

Just out of interest, found this quote on the Audi site for tyres and servicing (not sure if this has already been quoted further up the post but anyway):

Audi Genuine Tyres

Specially created for each Audi model and manufactured using the latest materials and testing criteria, Audi Genuine tyres ensure both wheel rim and tyre are coordinated to meet our exacting requirements.

To achieve the 'AO' marking for every model Audi Genuine tyres have to undergo around 50 performance criteria tests.

This is considerably more stringent than statutory tyre regulations.

Audi Genuine tyres are at the forefront when it comes to safety, comfort and driving on any road surface.

http://www.audi.co.uk/owners-area/audi-tyres.html


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

Audi's choice of tyre will be highly influenced by business deals and not the best tyre available.
The same goes for Brakes,Spark plugs,oil etc,etc
Owners have different priorities and ideas as to what is the best tyre from them.
I know the TTRS is a better car with 19" Mich Super sports than it is with Toyo T1 Sports,then again,for me it's a better car with 20" Dunlop Sport Maxx race and could be even better with Mich cup 2's.
Audi will know that as well,but the Michelins were not available at the time when Audi would of been testing.
Any way,I will carry on fitting the tyres I want on the car,as well as using higher quality oil,pads and spark plugs.


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

For those who don't believe that there is any difference in standard tyres and brand specific.

This is a picture of my Michelin Primacy HP tyres, marked with a star (*), so BMW specific:










This is a picture of a standard Michelin Primacy HP tyre:










This is a picture of a part worn standard Michelin HP tyre:










The centre of the tyres is the same. But the two pieces of thread left and right from the centre one aren't. As one can see on picture 2 the individual blocks are joined together near the centre of the thread and as the tyre wears (picture 3), the join becomes larger.

Now check the first picture, the BMW specific one: The same rows of thread aren't joined at all, except when the tyre reaches the end of its service life. Then they are joined in the middle of the blocks, not towards the middle.

The BMW tyre can shift water from the two middle groves towards the side of the tyre, whereas the standard Michelin tyre can't.


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

moro anis said:


> TT-driver said:
> 
> 
> > One top tip: don't put BMW spec (* marking) on the Audi, like I did (well found out a week too late  ). The tyres are just too stiff for the Audi's suspension. I now have to under inflate my tyres by 1-2 psi in order to compensate.
> ...


Yes, that 1 to 2 psi less results in less bounce and more roll. Also a lesser tendency to vibrate.


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## puresilk (Nov 14, 2014)

I think he might be getting confused with Porshes N rated tyres (which may invalidate insurance warranty etc)

I have read that AO or RO1 etc etc the manufacturers just make a slight differences to the mould and stamp the above on them.

Makes no difference to me if its PS3 or PS3 AO they are both the same IMHO.


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

TT-driver said:


> For those who don't believe that there is any difference in standard tyres and brand specific.
> 
> This is a picture of my Michelin Primacy HP tyres, marked with a star (*), so BMW specific:
> 
> ...


You've just posted three pictures of the same tyre at different stages of wear.
Some parts of the tread pattern only go down to around 4mm


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

Look carefully at the area between the two blocks inside the circle.










These two blocks will never join in the same way as the other tyre.

It took me a while to find that difference. But it's really there.


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

I inspect hundreds of tyres each day,so I'll see if I can put two tyres the same size/age side by side.
Would be interesting to see if the difference is down to BM spec, or there's another reason.
While I'm at it I might as well look more closely into Audi and Merc spec tyres.


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## Cornwall (Apr 8, 2013)

If you can do that I for one would certainly appreciate what this AO-MO-* is all about, and hopefully have a better understanding about why manufacturers recommend the tyres they do.

I look forward to any comments you have and any findings you make.

Thank you


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

Yes indeed and some photos to illustrate the differences would be very interesting too.


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## DavidUKTTS (Jul 8, 2014)

Just to follow up on this...

I phoned Goodyear Technical again today as I'm swaying toward the F1 A2s. Spoke to a different adviser, Pete.

I wanted to check the 255 35 19s are OK on my TTS with 9J standard alloys. His colleague David had said in November that the F1 A2s were not recommended for the TT as they were not "AO" marked. I didn't take it much further at that point.

Pete said he'd phone me back after he'd checked on their German system. In Germany, he told me, the law dictates that there can be no grey area on fitment. His concern was that due to the tyres not being AO marked they may be too wide and therefore foul the bodywork. He explained that if they were AO marked they would be made sufficiently narrow to avoid any issues.

He phoned me back half an hour later to say their German system had adverse notes for 18" and 20" versions of the tyre on the TT, but none for 19". He still could not guarantee they would fit and told me it would be at my own risk. He suggested asking on the forum if others had any problems, and to listen only to those with the same car/wheel size/tyre.

So... TT + 9Jx19 + Goodyear F1 A2... any issues IF you have this exact set up?


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## tttony (Dec 21, 2014)

I'm surprised that the tyre supplier is raising issues of clearance. I had assumed that any make specific differences in tyres only might relate to compound, sidewall rigidity and tread pattern. None of those variables should give rise to clearance issues. Clearance issues are usually only related to width (assuming that wheels with OEM offset are fitted). I thought that all tyres of, say, 245mm were the same width as surely that's the whole point of uniform tyre markings.

Am I missing something or has the tyre supplier got it wrong?


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## DavidUKTTS (Jul 8, 2014)

DavidUKTTS said:


> I just spoke to...
> 
> David Mullin
> Technical Customer Support & Service
> ...


To tttony, the above may clarify things for you.


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## tttony (Dec 21, 2014)

Thanks for sharing that. You live and learn, I had no idea that there could be so much variance in the width of tyres with the same size markings.


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