# Seatbelt Fine



## Devil (Mar 12, 2010)

Went out sunday on my own in the car, pulled off motorway to a roundabout, At the top of the junction were 4 police cars pulling ppl over, I didnt have seatbelt on i rarely do. and he pointed me to stop and pull over which i did.

Got out he goes you know why i stopped you ?
No i said ? routine stop ?
No m8 you wasnt wearing your seatbelt, but dont worry you wont get any points for it,
ahh result i thought, Then he hits me with the "Its a £60 fine instead"

ffs i was going mental, it was only me in the car no kids no dogs - cats or goldfish just me, im my own responsibility ffs.

I said to him ffs m8 it dont bother you if i fly out the window and kill meself does it, you aint gonna lose sleep over it are you ???
To which he replied no m8 i wont but im the one whos got to pick you up off the floor afterwards...

*"which must mean he dont mind picking me up as long as i pay £60 for the pleasure of his company" *

I was still going mad explaining to him that its all a business nowdays, 4 fking police cars on a sunday morning im sure cud be out doing somethihng alot more useful rather than giving me and many others a £60 fine.

Theres more traffic wardens - smart camera cars - and cameras all over the place now than theres ever been before. all making them more money than they have ever had before. Its a business plain and simple. You couldnt give a fk m8 if you had to pick me up off the floor or not.Long as they get their dosh thats all that matters

This really fks me off how everywhere you go nowdays it costs you money in 1 way or another, Every fker is out to get your money and they dont care how they get it either

Any1 seen the film Falling Down with micheal douglas where he goes on the rampage coz his fked off with it all. hmm im close to it somedays i tell ya LMFAO

I think if your in the car on your own you should be allowed if you choose to not wear your seatbelt. If you have kids in the car they are your responsibility and you should make them wear the seatbelt 100 % for their safety


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

It's not just about you.

On average an accident where somebody is wearing a seatbelt costs the British tax payer about £15,000 in terms of medical costs and the time of the emergency services. An identical accident but where the driver is not wearing a seatbelt on average costs the taxpayer around ten times as much - £150,000. That's down to the additional medical costs for more serious injuries or the costs of a police investigation and coroner's report for fatalities.

Wearing seatbelts isn't just about you - it's an obligation to all of us who pay our taxes.

Perhaps you need to stop thinking about these things just in terms of yourself and take a look at the bigger picture.

And I really doubt your response was ever likely to convince the officer to waive the ticket, do you?


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## Devil (Mar 12, 2010)

I know its not just about me.. The topic didnt say This is all about me at all.

Fact is theres cars out there that dont even have any seatbelts fitted to them that you can drive legally within the law and never get a ticket or fine. My father has a mini moke, no seatbelts fitted and not a thing they can do about it.
But just because mine has them and their not on im fined £60 ??? lol

And if they really wanted you to wear them so much you wouldnt even be able to pull off in the car unless they were plugged in as a safety measure instead of just bleeping whilst letting you still drive the car.. hmmm

Ps.. Work for the police do we ? sounds like it touched a nerve


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## denTTed (Feb 21, 2007)

Mark's right.


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## chrishumes (Jun 16, 2008)

+1 for mark, just wear your sealbelt, simples!


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

It's not touched a nerve at all - just explaining to you where your line of argument is wrong and why the law is enforced as it is. Perhaps if you understood that better you wouldn't feel so sore about it and wouldn't have quite the same attitude.

There _is_ a reason why cars have seatbelts and why they have to be worn. There is also a reason why the law isn't enforced retrospectively and applied to cars that were never fitted with seatbelts in the first place - it's a basic, general principle in equity that applies to all areas of statute.


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## fishface (Nov 25, 2006)

Sorry, I don't understand why you got so over heated over this, you admit that you chance it all the time, inevitably you were bound to get caught at some stage, this was it you broke the law full stop!
Mark is dead right, why should they turn a blind eye to you just because you were on your own?

I spent an hour on the hard shoulder of the M4 last year trying to keep someone alive who had crashed at 140 MPH, but the scene was still not nice, I am sure both him and his family are glad he was wearing a setbelt!


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## Devil (Mar 12, 2010)

I think your missing the point here..

I didnt say at any point that he should of let me off at all or turn a blind eye at all ??
Nor did i say i wasnt breaking any law.

The point to all this is that turning a corner to find 4 *hidden* police cars pulling ppl over 
or
turning a corner to find a *hidden* van with a camera in it checking your speed
or
having a moped *patrolling* car parks or other spaces to make sure you paid for a ticket
or
having a sign to say you cant park here. But displaying that sign *30 ft up in the air* on a wall so you miss it
or
Having a smart car with camera drive around all day just to catch ppl out

I got caught on a camera once by the guy operating it when i was delivering furniture in a luton van
there was absolutely no where to park other than outside the guys house on a main road.
I parked 2 wheels on the pavement to allow cars to get passed me and yep. you guessed it. The fine was for 
parking with 2 wheels on the pavement. 
When you explain the situation as to why you did it (ie its more dangerous to block the road up" so i briefly parked how i did due to the lack of parking whilst delivering his sofa. They dont want to know its either yes well your still wrong so pay us within 14 days or it goes up to more money.

My point to all this is its a business nowdays and the revenue they get is huge, And whilst you think their worried about our safety in all this, They wouldnt want to lose that revenue it employs to many ppl nowdays.

Theres alot of this kinda suff about that im sure you've seen and i dont think im alone in getting anoyed at times over it.


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## Gone (May 5, 2009)

The law is clear on seat belts. There is no grey area and no scope for argument. If you don't wear a seatbelt, you can expect a fine if you're caught. Take the points, learn your lesson and get over it.


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## fishface (Nov 25, 2006)

Totally agree with you on the hidden camera business, one of my staff got done for diving in a bus lane on a camera in Camden when the bus lane was not in force, I contested that one but the lease company had already paid it.

But in this case from your description the police were not exactly hiding, and I imagine on the look out for anything, I would be angry at getting a fine but in this case angry with myself!


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## cw955 (Apr 8, 2003)

Clunk, Click, Every Trip http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/films/1964to1979/filmpage_clunk.htm


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## blackers (Nov 15, 2006)

> 40 drivers stopped - Berkshire East
> 
> Friday 16 October 2009, 10:26am
> 
> ...


Just to shows it is not always about earning money. £25 for a seatbelt course to cancel the £60 FPN seems a good deal to me. Although I guess if you are determined not to wear a seatbelt it won't help much?

Out of interest if you don't wear a seatbelt is your insurance still valid?


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

cw955 said:


> Clunk, Click, Every Trip http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/films/1964to1979/filmpage_clunk.htm


Ah, Jimmy Savile and the "Clunk, Click every trip" campaign. Belated and public thanks chap for persuading me to wear a seat belt right from starting to drive a car and long before it became law. That saved me from injury or worse more than once.

Do people actually still choose not to wear a seat belt?



blackers said:


> Out of interest if you don't wear a seatbelt is your insurance still valid?


Probably. But if you are injured in a RTC and then claim and win compensation, that compensation will be reduced as you will be judged to have failed to take reasonable care of yourself.

That's not the 'right' words but you get my drift.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Shouldn't this be in the joke forum ? The op can't be serious.


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## Smeds (Oct 28, 2009)

I knew a bloke once that had a jumper for driving in, it had a black strip sewn into it to look like a seatbelt. To this day I can't fathom why he preferred to wear the jumper over the seatbelt.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

I highly doubt there were a bunch of coppers out to fine people for not wearing seatbelts. I imagine they were pulling people for other illegal activities. Just because yours seems mundane doesn't mean you shouldn't get fined.

I'm amazed that anybody does drive without a seatbelt. It's like wanting to get a place in the Darwin Awards!

What winds me up is people who disregard safety. No seatbelts, using mobile phones whilst driving. It's all signs of somebody who doesn't take the road seriously. I hope you buck up your ideas and start to respect the road and your vehicle for the deadly power it possess.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

So your problem is that the police and other enforcement authorities aren't _sporting_ enough? So rather than use the simple and most effective methods of doing the job that we are entrusted with (ie the enforcement of democratic law) we should instead use other more inefficient and costly methods that make it easier for people to break the law and not get caught, to give you a sporting chance?

Yeah, that's a great argument.

It's just about as good as the tired old dirge that it's all about raising money. I've yet to hear anyone provide an explanation about why any individual police officer should go out to work in the morning intent on issuing tickets in order to help put a dent in the national deficit. It makes no difference how many times it's explained to people that when tickets are issued the police don't get a single penny from the fines, they still trot out this bollocks. There's absolutely no foundation for it.

You are issued a ticket for one reason only - as an attempt to modify _your_ poor driving behaviour.

In my mind you complain about getting a ticket for one reason only - to try and put the blame for _your_ own offending behaviour on someone else.


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## denimblue225turbo (Aug 28, 2009)

pay the fine and think yourself lucky that your not being put 6ft under, not wearing a seat belt is signing your life away simple as that and to be honest i have no sympathy for people that do get seriously injured or killed in a road accident due to not wearing it, i have sympathy for the people i.e police, ambulance, fire that have to pick up your body parts and scrape your brains and guts off the ground, after all you dont have to live with those effects the people 'picking up the pieces' (no pun intended) do, maybe you would feel differently if you had to go and do the job the police have to do day in and day out.

Personally i feel that the money from fines should go to the police force, more money that gets put into their resources can only be a good thing, more police on the street = less opportunity for criminals in every aspect of their day to day life, drug use, burglary, mugging's, car jacking, shop lifting and all the rest.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

It might hurt mate and yes, I agree the law is an ass sometimes. But I can't see any argument for not wearing a seat belt.

You wouldn't drive around at night without lights on now would you? 8)

Cheers

rich


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

denimblue225turbo said:


> Personally i feel that the money from fines should go to the police force, more money that gets put into their resources can only be a good thing, more police on the street = less opportunity for criminals in every aspect of their day to day life, drug use, burglary, mugging's, car jacking, shop lifting and all the rest.


But of course that only raises the argument that tickets are issued for purely financial reasons. For pity's sake, even where it is made absolutely clear that we don't get any money from it this moaning that tickets are only issued to raise revenues still goes on and on and on! No, it's right that the issue of the tickets and the actual fines are kept completely separate in order to ensure that the enforcement is operated for its own sake only.

Of course, the fine money does all go into the central coffers, and while it is a rather insignificant sum in relation to the whole national budget, it does in that way make some contribution to the policing budget - just as it also supports education and the health service.


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## wul (Feb 10, 2009)

Mark Davies
But of course that only raises the argument that tickets are issued for purely financial reasons. For pity's sake said:


> the police either do or they dont make money mark,the above statement is contradictive
> and i must agree with the masses,driving without a seatbelt is irresponsible and im my view should carry 3 points,cheers wul.


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## Smeds (Oct 28, 2009)

Just because the police is funded by the government which makes money from fines hardly means Mark is contradicting himself.


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## head_ed (Dec 10, 2002)

Natural selection.


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## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

head_ed said:


> Natural selection.


 [smiley=thumbsup.gif] :lol:


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## bella_beetle2.0 (Feb 9, 2010)

Devil said:


> I said to him ffs m8 it dont bother you if i fly out the window and kill meself does it, you aint gonna lose sleep over it are you ???
> To which he replied no m8 i wont but im the one whos got to pick you up off the floor afterwards...


obviously you are not to bothered about your family. The police would not lose sleep as it would be your own fault for breaking the law but im sure your family would loose sleep because you are obviously "to cool for school" to wear a seatbelt and then they wouldnt have a son/brother/nephew/cousin/grandad/grandson/uncle.

worthless post. :?


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## graTT58 (Jan 28, 2009)

You know the rules and you got caught breaking them. You got what you deserved.


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## Devil (Mar 12, 2010)

bella_beetle2.0 said:


> obviously you are not to bothered about your family. The police would not lose sleep as it would be your own fault for breaking the law but im sure your family would loose sleep because you are obviously "to cool for school" to wear a seatbelt and then they wouldnt have a son/brother/nephew/cousin/grandad/grandson/uncle.
> 
> worthless post. :?


Id finished posting on this wasnt going to comment on it anymore until i see ppl making arrogant coments like worthless post ? But then feels the need to post in that worthless post section as above ??

I did do wrong, I got my fine , had my moan job done over and done with, But if its such a worthless post, maybe you should refrain from posting in a worthless post section eh ? bit contradictive isnt it .

And after all your the 1 doing posts on if you have nothing nice to say



> bella_beetle2.0 wrote:
> *Dont Say ANYTHING!*
> Recently when iv been reading through threads, people have been so grumpy and negative towards things.
> My advice would be dont comment on the thread at all.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Smeds said:


> Just because the police is funded by the government which makes money from fines hardly means Mark is contradicting himself.


on the news this morning ; ; 
latest recomendation,,, """ police pay be related to performance """ !!!     :? :? [smiley=bomb.gif]


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## denTTed (Feb 21, 2007)

roddy said:


> Smeds said:
> 
> 
> > Just because the police is funded by the government which makes money from fines hardly means Mark is contradicting himself.
> ...


I think thats a great idea, as a law abiding citizen what could go wrong?? I think they should pay there wage, you know £10k for a murderer £2k for a burglar etc etc etc

Motoring offences would of course be counted as penalties, (except seatbelt to keep this on topic), speeding when there is nobody else on the road at 3am, sober, non built up area would be I think about -£150k.


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## bella_beetle2.0 (Feb 9, 2010)

Devil said:


> bella_beetle2.0 said:
> 
> 
> > obviously you are not to bothered about your family. The police would not lose sleep as it would be your own fault for breaking the law but im sure your family would loose sleep because you are obviously "to cool for school" to wear a seatbelt and then they wouldnt have a son/brother/nephew/cousin/grandad/grandson/uncle.
> ...


ok.. sorry if i hit a nerve


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## DXN (May 18, 2002)

Lets ask another question

Do you declare to Life insurance, morgage insurance, wage protection that you dont wear a sealt belt ?

I'd wear one because all that is important to you

I agree that if you fly out of a windscreen in a crash its your decision but tax payers will pay for ITU care [if you survive](circa £250,000 for 3/12 hospital care --lets not talk about rehab needed!).

A seat belt doesn't spoil driving pleasure so why not just wear one??

Hope I dont see you at work


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## TT_Tesh (Feb 22, 2009)

I agree with the first reply. It's the law and no doubt if you were injured by someone else's stupidity, then you would claim against yours/their insurance. By not wearing a seat belt this doesn't limit the level of injury you may suffer.

Plus if you do crash and your not wearing a seatbelt, the level of resources required to put you / others back together (by the hospital) is so high that for a 60 pound fine and you not doing it again is worth it and worth the grief of the police officer of pulling you over.

[smiley=book2.gif]


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## jdn (Aug 26, 2002)

Do you carry an organ donor card?


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## bella_beetle2.0 (Feb 9, 2010)

i agree that it is also a waste of time , money and resources of the ambulance and police services because of someones stupidity, when a hospital bed could be filled by someone who does abide by the law and from no fault of thier own need the bed!

£60 compared to the money spent from them services is really nothing :evil:


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## TT_Tesh (Feb 22, 2009)

bella_beetle2.0 said:


> i agree that it is also a waste of time , money and resources of the ambulance and police services because of someones stupidity, when a hospital bed could be filled by someone who does abide by the law and from no fault of thier own need the bed!
> 
> £60 compared to the money spent from them services is really nothing :evil:


Right on girl


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

DXN said:


> Lets ask another question
> 
> Do you declare to Life insurance, morgage insurance, wage protection that you dont wear a sealt belt ?
> 
> ...


Aye ,, the N H S aint cheap these days,,,,,   
ps ,, nice Mk11 ,, :wink: :wink:


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

I have a perception in my mind of Devil.

I gotta admit it's not that positive but as we're all aware you can't judge people you haven't met so I keep an open mind until/if I ever meet him.

However a young know it all who has an issue with authority is the image this thread puts out.

Am I right?


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## lazerjules (Apr 18, 2009)

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone or anything but having been in an accident where the car landed onto it's roof after rolling once completely, I have to say it was definately the seatbelt that saved me from something very nasty and potentially fatal.
Was quite amusing trying to get out, while hanging upside down but the seatbelt was a good thing. I don't think I would have the same opinion unless that had happened.
I have to admit though, I don't even notice the seatbelt when it's on I don't think I will ever understand why people are so against putting it on, to me it's just automatic, put key in, put seatbelt on, just natural, it's not like it's uncomfortable. In fact when cornering it helps keep you in your seat, surely this is a good thing.


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## Devil (Mar 12, 2010)

scoTTy said:


> I have a perception in my mind of Devil.
> 
> I gotta admit it's not that positive but as we're all aware you can't judge people you haven't met so I keep an open mind until/if I ever meet him.
> 
> ...


Hi.. Totally the opposite to what this post might make me look like.

The longer this post has gone on and the more i read of it i spose it did sound very arrogant and that of a youngster. I think i was prob more annoyed at myself for getting the fine in the 1st place.

But i still have issues with some of the other things i described with cameras and smart cars and moped patrols trying to catch you out whilst you quickly nip into a shop taking 3 mins where the cars not causing no real problem then to come out and have a ticket. And signs displayed 30ft in the air so you really dont see them. I dont know anyone 30ft tall :lol:

 *Let me show you an example of what i mean here* 

Below is a video clip of my partner dropping somebody off at a bus stop. There was no busses present and she wasnt causing an obstruction. She wasnt even stationary for longer than *10 seconds* as the video will show you if you watch the clock. She stopped at 15.50 and 36 seconds and left and 15.50 and 44 seconds. thats *8 seconds stationary*

She didnt park up and go shopping it was purely dropping some1 at the stop.

As you will see from the video the very second she pulled up the guy managing the camera zoomed in on her within seconds to get the reg number and issue her with a £120.00 fine for stopping in a bus stop or stand.The guys sitting there waiting for this to happen judging by his response time zooming in on the car.

Clearly the guy cud see what happened and she wasnt going shopping nor hanging about for a length of time.
This is a exactly the kind of thing im talking about and annoys me so much. If she parked up and went shopping i cud totally understand the fine and the obstruction it might cause. But in this case it didnt do any harm except to her purse.


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## denimblue225turbo (Aug 28, 2009)

Devil said:


> scoTTy said:
> 
> 
> > I have a perception in my mind of Devil.
> ...


Some people just get a bit of a bee in the bonnet with some issues, unfortunatly you picked a good one, but i wouldnt take any offence, its just people airing their views on the subject, nothing personal


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Devil said:


> http://havering.appeals-online.co.u...HG71386039&txtVRM=EF09LVL&txtWebCode=427ZZ546


I can't see it. can you shove it on YouTube?


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## Devil (Mar 12, 2010)

Hiya

You may need to click allow the player at the top of your screen. allow the add on see if that works for you


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Devil said:


> Hiya
> 
> You may need to click allow the player at the top of your screen. allow the add on see if that works for you


No mate, I just don't have the required plug-in apparently... :lol:


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## Devil (Mar 12, 2010)




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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Devil said:


>


Jesus, that is ridiculous. Thank Christ she wasn't picking her nose.

This country is definitely heading south quicker than ever... :?

Cheers

rich


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## Hark (Aug 23, 2007)

Totally agree with the bus lane thing and speed cameras...

BUT

I don't understand the seatbelt thing? You ever been in a smash.

I'm presuming not. :? If you have then can I suggest popping to the library and buying a book called 'Darwin Awards'


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## Snake TT (Jul 13, 2007)

To be honest I feel 'naked' when I dont have mine on. Like a layer of protection is missing. I much prefer the feeling of security it gives.

Plus Ive seen the horrible aftermaths of people who dont wear them. That alone is usually enough to make you WANT to wear one without exception.


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## jdn (Aug 26, 2002)

Came across this today which seemed a little ironic:

http://www.snopes.com/autos/accident/seatbelt.asp


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