# Convertible / Soft Top Roof Failure - Please Help!



## chestnutree

Hi everyone,

I really don't want to spend money at the garage so all DIY help would be appreciated.

I've just driven home with the roof down. Got home and tried to put it back up but it failed. The roof got as high as the wind deflector and stopped. The light on the dash is flashing.

I managed to release the hydraulic pressure with a screwdriver in the boot and lift the roof up. When using the manual crank, I wound it into place and tried to pull the cog/bolt out but the thread snapped off inside  I can't even get the cog out with pliers! I thought the game was up but luckily i pressed the roof switch and this part of the electrics did work and locked electronically.

Obviously I can buy a new crank, but can anyone tell me how to remove the bolt to buy replacements? Otherwise a new crank will be no good because the pin is still stuck inside the bolt.

Also the roof is still broken. I turned the screw in the boot to close off the hydraulics. Pressed the roof button to open the roof.... The windows drop, the roof catches release and lift slightly, you can hear the whirring behind the seat just before the roof lifts but it doesn't lift. The roof will now lock and unlock automatically but it fails to fold open. Do I need to do anything to get the hydraulics to refill after releasing the pressure to open the roof manually? The roof light does not flash during this process, it just lights up as it normally does when operating the roof.

Please help.

Thanks.

Nick


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## davelincs

It sounds like one of the flap motors as failed, I believe there was a recall on these, how olds the car?
I can't help with the damaged bolt though


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## chestnutree

It's 2007.

The flaps are both fully open. It was after the roof partially raised that it failed and now makes no effort at all to open after manually closing.


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## Fizzleh

I don't have a garage and this is the one nightmare I've been scared of if I ever bought a convertible


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## chestnutree

I don't have one either so I was lucky that it locked into place electronically after the crank snapped off


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## Hardrhino

Shame you've had an issue.....

1st. You don't need to top up the hydraulics.... All the screw does is release the pressure so you can raise/lower manually.

So..... I believe this should help diagnose the issue
Unlock the roof with the button
Unscrew the pressure release valve
Then lower the roof down manually 
Once lowered shut the valve
Now using the button the flaps should lower and raise (if I remember rightly) as it should know the roof is stowed

If they do it's a pump issue... If they don't, they might not anyway, it's the first thing to have checked.

New switch £70ish Audi want same again to change! But the new switch needs coding to the car.


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## Blade_76

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=177737&hilit=Roof+stuck+open

Had this issue with my first MkII, luckily my parents neighbour at the time, was a car dealer, he did the manual shut for me but £1k worth do damage was caused in doing so.. Am sure this is a recognised issue, but seem to remember you need a full audi service history and the car under a certain age? Good luck


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## chestnutree

Thanks. Just read your post. So you think it will relate to TSB 61B3? How do I get audi to recognise this? I've previously found Audi Wolverhampton to refuse to recognise any recall codes I've thrown at them for other faults.

If the car is out of warranty ( 2007 so it will be) is a car still covered if it's a fault they have issued a recall for?

Is it likely that the car is refusing to operate because it has now registered a fault with the roof? Is there a chance that I could clear any fault codes and the roof starts working again? Just a stab in the dark....


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## -:[KM]:-

When your back in Nottingham, I can help. Hopefully. 
New servo motor was £65ish when I bought one. Needs coding.

I think you've gone too far with the cranking though. The catches/hooks don't seem to fail too often.


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## chestnutree

So you're pretty sure it's one of these flap motors? Because the flaps opened fully, the roof stopped lifting when it was 1/4 of the way up.

I don't think I explained properly with the cranking. I didn't actually get to crank it at all. I removed the cover to the area where u crank, wound the threaded end of the tool clockwise as the manual describes until it stopped, and then pulled. Because the manual shows you have to pull the cog looking piece out, to be able to insert the other end of the crank to be able to crank it. Well it's when I went to pull on the crank to remove the cog piece that the threaded piece snapped off inside. So I wasn't actually able to remove the cog to be able to insert the other end of the crank to actually crank it. If that makes sense?

So the end of my crank is now just a hollow cylinder with no threaded piece down the centre, it's left snapped off inside the cog piece in the roof. I was lucky the electrics work to lock the roof into place. The roof just doesn't raise and lower on its own anymore.


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## -:[KM]:-

Splined or threaded? I'm a bit lost with the crank end stuff.

But yeah, get a code. Probably servo shizzles.


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## chestnutree

This video will help show the part I broke. Skip to 1:30: 




It's slightly different as on my vehicle, you remove the whole cover to get to the locking gears in the roof, not just a "bung". You screw one end of the tool into the "drive gear" as the video explains and then pull it out. Then use the other end of the tool to lock the roof. It's when I screwed the tool in to pull out the "drive gear" that the thread down the centre of the tool snapped off inside the drive gear. No idea how i'm going to get this out now if this part of the electric roof failed.


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## chestnutree

I don't know how I missed it, but upon re-reading my post I've just spotted the reply from hardrhino. I'll give this a go when I get chance. At least then I know if it's the common issue others have mentioned or something else (Like the pumps as you mentioned).


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## chestnutree

Update:
I'm investigating it as we speak and could do with some help please 

Flap motors appear fine. I pressed the button and this time the roof went full down on its own and the flaps closed. There's me thinking it had reset and sorted itself....

Press the button to put the roof up.... Flaps open then nothing. The button will open and close the flaps fully but the roof will not raise. Hydraulics?

After a lot of hard work, I've removed the carpet to access where I believe the hydraulics are but there's a metal plate covering it. I assume I remove the bolts and not the screws to remove this cover? I'm trying to check the fluid level. Could someone advise as I'm just making guesses here 

Thanks.

Nick


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## chestnutree

I can't find anything on google for the MK2 hydraulics, just one post on this forum for a MK1


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## chestnutree

Ok. Managed to get the hydraulics out. With the roof down the fluid is half way. Roof up and the fluid is on min. Which is strange to say that the only time it has done anything since failing is lowering the roof by itself once. Anyway.... I'll try topping it up, but how?!?! I don't want to undo the wrong thing so I'm not going to touch anything else without a bit of help from someone who knows.


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## chestnutree

Bump


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## Alexjh

How easy to get to this?

I could check my roadster what level the fluid is at... But if it's low then maybe there is a leak so filling it won't be much use for u...


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## chestnutree

Not that easy so I wouldn't ask u to, thanks 

You have to pull all the carpet up along the back of the boot including the trim behind the first aid box, then u undo all of the screws and bolts fixing it inside the floor of the boot. It's right at the back left of the boot so the whole time you're leaning right inside working on it. Not fun. Lol.

I was kinda hoping that as it's not completely empty, as the car is 7 years old now, maybe it had just slowly lost some over the years and if I fill it,hopefully it will last long enough to make it worth it 

Do you reckon I could just top it up with any generic hydraulic fluid from halfrauds?


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## Alexjh

It's pink so, guessing steering fluid 

Ask a dealer or indi if it's possible to fill I bet it is but not from there bet there is another fill location


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## mwad

Alexjh said:


> It's pink so, guessing steering fluid
> 
> Ask a dealer or indi if it's possible to fill I bet it is but not from there bet there is another fill location


Yeah, for the sake of a phone call of email, I'd ask.......


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## moro anis

Well done so far. Could you lay the unit on its back and top up through the drain hole? If not what about through the plug in the top-right above it?
Hope you continue to sort it.


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## chestnutree

Drain hole? Didn't know it had one :/ lol

Been a bit Ill so it's been left for a few days. I didn't call the dealer because I assumed they wouldn't assist in self fixes and would have told me to book it in. If they're likely to help then I'll call them tomorrow.


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## chestnutree

My Ross tech HEX+CAN Cable and 12.12 version of the software arrived today. Literally only just. I've not tested it yet and don't yet know what I'm doing but..... Is the software and car computer system clever enough to tell me what the exact fault with the roof is? As above.... I was kinda guessing with the fluid and hoping that if I topped it up it would work. If it was a low fluid issue, would this software tell me? Anyone know exactly how to use it to find out?

I'm sure I could work it out as I'm technically minded but I didn't want to mess anything up along the way.

Thanks


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## chestnutree

OK, here are the results. I'm guessing some of these faults threw up because of the main issue and aren't the actual cause. So based on the info in the post, which one out of these faults is the likely culprit? I notice the flap sensor is one, but the flaps open and close fine so I assume it's not the issue?.....

Address 26: Auto Roof Labels: 8J7-959-255.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 8J7 959 255 B
Component and/or Version: 256 VSG TT H13 0100
Software Coding: 
Work Shop Code: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 3E73D87369826EEEBF1-806B
4 Faults Found:

02000 - Switch Position 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 3
Mileage: 121120 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2014.04.13
Time: 15:06:32

01097 - Switch for Front Canopy Latch (F172) 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 3
Mileage: 121225 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2014.04.18
Time: 17:03:09

03247 - Sensor for Canopy Flap; Right (G597) 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 15
Reset counter: 3
Mileage: 121225 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2014.04.18
Time: 15:19:03

00446 - Function Limitation due to Under-Voltage 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 18
Mileage: 120695 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2014.03.29
Time: 14:20:16


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## chestnutree

I notice:
00446 - Function Limitation due to Under-Voltage 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

Has the earliest time logged, so I guess it would be logical to "guess" this is the cause. But I have no idea what it is referring to exactly. under-voltage in what and why?


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## moro anis

See above for filling and level suggestions..


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## chestnutree

Hi,

Thanks for your diagram.

I called Audi who at first said it's sealed, if the level is low they would replace the whole pump which comes with it already topped up :/ so I asked for their email address.

I sent off the picture in this post and got a helpful response. It is the brass bolt on top where it is topped up from (13mm bolt, filler bung they said)as suggested in the last post.

They said they use power steering fluid, mineral not ATF. I don't think I'll make it to Audi during their opening times so I'm hoping halfrauds have a "mineral" power steering fluid that is suitable.

Nick


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## moro anis

Sealed unit? A likely story. 
You're doing great so far. Keep up the good work and hope it works.


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## chestnutree

Thanks 

I'll keep you up to date. Just waiting for a mix of having free time and some dry weather to give it a go. Not a great forecast on the weather at the moment.


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## moro anis

No, it's supposed to rain (heavy at times) for the next 4 days.


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## chestnutree

From what I've seen on the halfords website and reading posts online, I don't think they sell the correct one which is strange.

I'm going to order from here: http://www.audipartsdirect.co.uk/produc ... _G004000M2

Hopefully by the time it arrives it will be dry


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## Seafar99

Chestnutree, I finally got round to getting access to the main pump like you have. The reservoir was probably sitting between 
Min and Halfway, so took out the brass 13mm top bolt and filled it till it showed max. Re-fitted it all back in and tried it out.
The roof retracted down as per usual..... But on putting it back up the two flaps proceeded to activate as normal but still no movement of the main roof. I'm fairly certain it a 'flap sensor' which is at fault so I'm going to have to bite the bullet and hand it into Audi UK for it to be fixed.
Craig.


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## chestnutree

Hi Craig,

I have just done the same today! and I am still in exactly the same boat. Roof retracts fine and flaps close, then upon raising, flaps open and then nothing.....

I believe you are correct that it's a sensor fault. I have VAGCOM so I cleared the codes and then tried the roof. It tells me it is the right flap sensor (I assume right would be drivers side?). So it looks like you're right and we have the same issue. How did you find accessing the pump and taking the bolts off? I was ready to give up at one stage.

You mentioned handing it over to Audi, But with it just being a sensor is it not something that we can fix ourselves? I was really hoping that I could just unplug the sensor and replace with a new one but I have no idea how or where it is!

With the recall on the flaps, was that for the flap not opening at all or is it for this sensor fault we have?

Here is the report from VCDS:

Saturday,17,May,2014,16:38:37:62939

Address 26: Auto Roof 
1 Fault Found:

03247 - Sensor for Canopy Flap; Right (G597) 
008 - Implausible Signal
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 3
Mileage: 122136 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2014.05.17
Time: 16:41:46

I assume that does mean the sensor is just dead and needs replacing, can anyone confirm?

If anyone can advise how to replace that would be great 

If not, I'm not going to Audi.... There's a VAG specialist nearby that will be a fraction of the price of an Audi dealership.

Nick


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## chestnutree

I found this:
http://macmadigan.com/Audi/tt0711/ssp391.pdf

Go to page 23, G597 is the sensor. It says it is built into the motor, so I would need a whole new motor i'm guessing 

Therefore I wonder if it would be covered by the TSB? Would a car out of warranty be covered by TSB's?


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## Seafar99

I've got two issues with mine
Switch for Front Canopy Latch (F172)
&
Sensor for Canopy Flap Right (G597)

Going by what I can make out, that once the sensors have been replaced with 'new/working sensors' they have to be coded
To the ECU that control the operation.

How did I find getting access to the main pump to top up the hydrolics ? 
A bit of a nightmare to be honest, 6 x 10mm bolts weren't too bad but then getting the 4 x t30 Torx head bolts with the 10mm nuts was friggin' awkward!
I like you purchased 1 Litre of the correct steering fluid and then probably ended up using 30-50ml ie very little!
Still nothing ventured and literally nothing gained.
I share your pain.


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## chestnutree

Yes! Those 4 bolts!! Because the hydraulic cables are still attached it's so hard to get in there to undo them at the back of the boot!

I also had F172 come up the first time, but after clearing the codes it hadn't reappeared. I'm wondering if me lifting the roof by hand and not pulling it all the way caused that to happen the first time?

I've been reading about the coding. It says on rosstech that it doesn't need coding but it does need to be learnt. Luckily I have Ross tech so I can do that myself. Straight forward procedure. Do you?

We've found a post from someone saying they bought a motor for £50 and fitted themselves within 30 mins. Unfortunately there's no pictures which would be a big help.

At least the fluid is topped up for a good few years now and there's someone to share my pain  lol

Let me know how you get on and I'll do the same.

If anyone else has info on replacing this motor or if you know whether it would be done under the tsb on an out of warranty car, please pipe up so I can be more persistent when I query the tsb with audi 

Nick


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## Seafar99

Nick, Incoming PM for you.


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## Dodgyrog

Hi guys,
I'm following your posts with real interest as I'm having exactly the same problem. Bought my 2008 roadster about a month ago, last week my near side door window jammed (knackered regulator, surprise surprise) fixed that and the roof immediately stopped working.

Flaps open but it won't raise up, sometimes it doesn't always retract either. I had a look at getting the hyrdaulics out but decided to put it on hold when I read your posts about no improvement even after topping up. The flap sensor does make sense and also sounds expensive! I'll do some research too and see what I can come up with.

I have to say, great forum and invaluable advice from enthusiasts, I hope I can contribute more to the forum with time

Roger


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## moro anis

Good luck Roger and well done for having a go.


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## Seafar99

*LATEST * update on softop roof is;
I booked it into Audi Dealership (STIRLING), they basically got back to me and said they cleared the codes..
Then re-orientated the roof mechanism so it knew where it was as far as open/closed positioning.
The canopy then proceeded to work !
Cost me £75 inc vat (Diagnostic check & Reset and courtesy car (£15).)

If it defaults again and requires G597 & V381 with F172 it will cost £558.70 for Audi to repair.!

Used the car a lot on friday and saturday, roof worked perfectly on 7 different occasions.


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## Seafar99

Dodgyrog Roger,
Getting into check the level of the resevoir on the main pump is a pain in the ar*e, but topping it up, which it needed, can only have helped return the system back to normal. What Audi did to calibrate the system i've no idea.


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## Dodgyrog

Seafar99

Thanks for the update, I think a trip to my local audi agent is on the cards. If I've got the same problem, £75 would be well worth it considering the hassle involved in trying to fathom it out myself. 
I'll try and book it in next week and I'll post the results, thanks again for the info.
Dodgy.


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## NN.TT

Hello,
my soft top went this morning with the same problem. flats go up, windows go partially down,but then roof does not go up. Does the diagnostic and reset still work? [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## Seafar99

Maybe, maybe not, depending on what's gone wrong.
May be worth checking the level of fluid in the main pump
Reservoir and topping up if needed before trying to reset.

What year?


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## NN.TT

2007 - I've got it booked in to have it checked today.


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## vucanthi

I have the same problem. With so many types of problem here, it it possible that the roof control unit ECU is the one to blame? I wanna try to replace it to see what happens.


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## chestnutree

Its of course possible there's a fault with the roof ecu, but in this case I believe it's quite unlikely and would be expensive if it was. Plus it would need to be coded into the car.

I believe/ hoping what the dealership did on Craigs was what is mentioned in this write up on Ross tech.

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Audi_TT_(8J)Automatic_Roof

If it is, I have the software so I'll give it a go. Today was forecast to be great but it's now tipping it down, so once it dries up I'll try it. If I do, I'm praying I don't mess it up and the whole roof stops because I broke the manual crank so I need it to at least still lock electronically :/

Sorry I'm slow at replying, I never get emails for updates even though I ticked the box.

Nick


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## chestnutree

Do you know how long it takes?

I was sat running the output test on the left flap motor before the right for around 5 mins, then the rain came so I had to give in as the inside of the car was getting drenched  nothing appeared to be happening, not sure if it's supposed to take a long time?


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## Seafar99

I've no idea Nick, keep us updated on how you get on. It would seem a lot of the 2007 cars are running into similar problems.


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## chestnutree

I'm sat trying it now but it doesn't want to do it. The write up says test the left flap then the right. Wait until the flap opens and closes before testing the right. As we know it's the right throwing up the faults not the left. I sat waiting for 15 mins and the left flap never opened


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## Yamitime

Hey Dodgy I just read your post and you say this happened as soon as you fixed your regulator .
Maybe related to the regulator swap as the roofs cycle lowers the window before the roof raises and then closes them again .
I wonder weather theres a sensor to tell the roof the window is down before it lifts the roof.
Maybe a bit of tweaking ?


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## Dodgyrog

Hi Yamitime,
I think you're exactly right. I dropped the hood while I was fixing the regulator and it all went wrong after that.
I'm taking it in to my local German car 'specialist' who will reset the codes (what ever that means :? )

I'll post again tomorrow with the outcome, it seems this is a very common problem after reading the other posts but hopefully not too expensive to put right

Dodgy


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## Dodgyrog

Okay, just took my car into MotorAid (01268 591558) in Basildon Essex. 
They ran a diagnostic and found surprise surprise a 'top flap' fault. They carried out a top flap initialisation and reset left and right sensors. All working now and they said if fault should reoccur they will fix it for free. Cost?.....£51. 
I think that's really fair and they did it while I waited (about an hour) they have other branches in the Essex area. I can now enjoy the 4 days of summer we're experiencing! 

Dodgy


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## Seafar99

Dodgy, That's good news. So that's two of us regained use of the electric roof by getting a re-set .
Let's hope it lasts, I've had use of mine for the last two weekends, what's more remarkable is ....
I live in Scotland and the sun shone two weekends in a row!


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## moro anis

Now that's asking us to believe too much :lol:


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## NN.TT

wish i could say the same, took mine to inde-tech in Bletchley. Reset they said did not work, gave them the details from this post. they said the G596 flap motor left would not recognise the various position and therefore needed replacing. They replaced it with a new one and it is now working...... but I'm down nearly £300 notes [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## Dodgyrog

NN.TT sorry to hear that, let's hope the other side doesn't pack up!
Despite this annoying fault (and the feeble window regulators) I really enjoy driving the TT even in the Essex traffic. I really must take it up to Seafar99's part of the world for a real drive in the highlands.

Until the next problem.....

Good luck all,

Dodgy


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## Dodgyrog

Forgot to say thank you for everybody's input with the roof problem and the window regulator.
Cheers [smiley=cheers.gif] [smiley=cheers.gif]


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## TT225_baseball

Hi,

The soft top on my 2009 TTS is now falling to close, side roof flap on passenger side is constantly clicking when trying to raise roof. Closes fine manually if I follow the closing instructions to raise roof and then finish by using the motors to secure roof to screen.

I've booked car into my local Audi garage in Worthing and told them about the issue and I also provided them details from a related thread I'd found on this forum, specifically "TSB #2015779/5: Conv. Top Assem. adjust. Open Recall: #61645699: Replace Drive Units TSB #2018777/5: Update Control Module to 8J7 959 259 E with Software Level 140 TSB 61B3"

The garage said there are no open recalls on my vehicle, checked registration number in Audi system.
He did say the open recall reference number that I'd provided was not a UK number and he thought it was a U.S number so did not cover my issue, although he did say he would do some more research.

In the meantime I'm going to pull the error codes off and see if a simple reset will resolve the problem, as don't want to have to cover costs of replacement sensors or flap motors myself.

I have an MWS 4star policy and enquired if it would cover the issue only to be told it doesn't cover the any soft top components but does cover sunroof motors, typical.

I'd be interested to know if anybody had recent success getting their local Audi garage to resolve the issue without charge, and if so how they'd can gone about it.

Thanks
Mark


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## swannierivers

I have a 2008 Mk2 tt cabriolet with the same roof problem.
I was clearing out the roof drain pipes under the side flap covers (because of a wet carpet in the passenger side foot well), turned the ignition off with the flaps in the UP position and now the roof won't to go back up again.
Managed to get it back up manually, the top locks lock and unlock ok but the hydraulic pump doesn't come in to lower the roof.
With the roof manually down (override valve closed again) and the flaps will move up and down automatically but no sound of the hydraulic pump coming on.
Removed both side flaps and dismantled them (DC motor, worm gear and a variable resistor inside) 1000 ohms on one side, 5000 ohms on the other with the flap in one position and the opposite readings with the flap in the other position ie 5000 ohms and then 1000 ohms.
The variable resistor is a 6000 ohm resistor so this rings true to me.
It's the same on both flaps.
I'm convinced that I have caused this by turning the ignition off with the flaps in the UP position and now they have lost their (software) position.

Does anybody know if resetting the fault codes works or will I have to re-calibrate or simulate some sort of new installation some how?

Cheers guys.


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## chestnutree

I don't know the answer for certain, but from what you've described it sounds like you need to relearn the roof opening/closing which you can do with VAG-COM
Nick


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## moro anis

Well done for your diagnostics. Pleased all the readings are good.. It does sound as you say that you've "confused" its sequencing but how you reset I'm afraid I don't know. Hopefully someone will be along soon with the answer.


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## chestnutree

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Audi_TT_(8J)Automatic_Roof


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## swannierivers

Cheers Nick,
That's a helpful link,
Fingers crossed.
I've ordered £5 worth of software and cable from (a popular auction site) so I'll have a go as soon as it arrives.
Is this how you cured your fault or did you end up taking it to a garage.

I'll post my results as soon as.


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## IWEM

HI
I have the same problem , (Broken tool inside the bolt) Audi are saying I need to replace the complete motor, which seems to be working ok.

Do you know if the bolt is available as a part, as its a removable part it should be.

Any help really appreciated or I facing a £378.00 bill

Thanks Ian


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## IWEM

Hi Did you managed to resolve the issue with and remove and replace the bolt. Audi Warrington have said I need to replace the motor, which is working. Seems strange give the bolt is a removable part.

Thanks Ian


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## CarloSalt

IWEM said:


> Hi Did you managed to resolve the issue with and remove and replace the bolt. Audi Warrington have said I need to replace the motor, which is working. Seems strange give the bolt is a removable part.
> 
> Thanks Ian


Sound like it just needs a software reset. Not that I know. Why do people not just take it to Audi and get them to reset. Surely it won't cost much. Save all this hassle.


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## AndyJay

Having read all of the posts here, i have to add my story.
I had an issue with the roof sticking half way when trying to get the roof up.
I couldn't get to the pressure release screw so called RAC.
I had to upgrade my account to cover me at home at a cost of £95 (been with them for 13 years and only used them twice).
A sub-contractor came out who didn't have a clue how to do the manual roof close so i showed him the RAC video on youtube on my laptop.
I helped him lift the roof up as stated in the video then he proceeded to crank the roof back in to place, damaging the cranking tool and the bolt at the same time.
Next morning the dash lights and warning message stated that the roof was not placed correctly (i forget the actual messages) so the RAC visited my place of work and advised i took to a particular local garage. 
I did this and was charge £135 for 'setting' the roof.
Now i'm left with a broken crank and the damaged splined bolt stuck in my roof.
RAC won't accept responsibility.

Any advice on how to get the bolt out?
It comes out pretty easy with the crank tool as i've had to manually lift the roof before without issue.
The crank tool just screws on to the bolt and you pull it done squarely.
I'm worried about trying it with pliers in case i damage something else.

Not impressed with RAC.

Thanks
Andy


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## ScoTTish

Can I join in please.....

My roof has just failed 1/4 way up. I cannot get the hydraulic pressure to release.

I am worried to put too much pressure into trying to turn it in case I am not in the slot, but down the side somehow. In the video it looks really easy.

Any hints or tips to finding the dam slot - or is it stif because it is half way up and so under more pressure?

Will then try and get it scanned to see what the problem is.

Thanks in advance,


----------



## AndyJay

Hi ScoTTish -

I also had difficultly in finding the screw slot!
Is it a Flathead or cross-head?
Does it 'spring back' once you've release the pressure or do you have to close it again?

So hard to find instructions or diagrams.

Cheers
Andy


----------



## SwissJetPilot

I put this together for just this sort of problem. Hope this helps. I included a PDF you might want to download since it gets into more detail and has more pictures.

*How to: Manual Closing of the Audi TT (8J) Convertible Top*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1347161

Also be aware that when you attempt to push the screwdriver through the little hole in the carpeting to engage and open the Emergency Relief Valve (ERV), there may be a bit of resistance as there's a rubber grommet around it. If your screw driver is too wide, you may have trouble getting it to fit.

*Best best is to use the OEM screwdriver that's in the spare tool kit.*

Unfortunately, you'll be trying to do this blind as there's no way to see the ERV so you have to "feel" around for it. I'm guessing the rubber grommet is there to help guide you to the slot in ERV. Be patient, it's a bit tricky.

Remember after you've opened or closed the top manually, to close the ERV. Never attempt to open or close the top without the ERV open or you'll risk seriously damaging the convertible top hydraulics or frame.


----------



## AndyJay

Brilliant SwissJetPilot

I'm sure that will be helpful to many owners.
I now have a new crank arm tool, but still waiting for the spline shaft to arrive.
Would you say it is safe to remove the old spline shaft with a pair of pliers?
I'm concerned about damaging the new crank arm thread if i attempt to remove the spline shaft with it.

I am, of course, assuming that the current spline shaft thread is also damaged. maybe it's not, but I don't want to ruin the new crank arm.

Appreciate your advice.
Thank you
Andy

PS I have this part number for the spline shaft 8J7898813 but have received the wrong part on two occasions and now the warehouse are doing a bin check. Is this the correct part number?

Cheers


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *AndyJay* - You ordered a new spline shaft? I'm surprised it was possible to damage it that badly! Even if you snapped off the little threaded stud inside the spline shaft, the spline shaft should still be completely functional.

I would say sure, give it a try with pliers (use vise-grips so you get a good hold) since the 1/4" of it that's sticking out is non-functional anyway. There's no way anything can be misaligned while the spline shaft is in there, so you can't damage anything. Just pull it straight out and don't attempt to rotate it.

The only way to damage the spline shaft and the crank arm tool would be to attempt to rotate it while it is still in the motor housing gear. As shown in the drawing, the spine shaft passes through two parts; the motor gear and the actuator. If you attempt to rotate the crank arm tool with it screwed into the bottom of the spline shaft (instead of pulling the spline shaft straight out like you should) the little threaded stud would shear off inside the spline shaft. This would make the crank arm tool useless for removing the spline shaft, so yes, you can use pliers to pull the spline shaft out of the motor assembly. The other end of the crank arm tool is still functional, so you don't need to replace it as long as you have pliers handy.

If this is what happened, I would just keep a small pair of vise-grip pliers in the car and save buying a new spline shaft and/or a new crank arm tool. Since the threaded bit is now inside the spline shaft, it's not going to affect anything, other than it's stuck in there and a new crank arm tool wouldn't be able to fit in anyway.

I can't answer the question to the spline shaft part number, from the drawings I have been able to find, it's not listed. But from what you have described, you don't need to replace it unless you somehow damaged the external splines themselves. Just keep a small pair of vise-grip pliers handy should you need to pull the spline shaft out in the future.

As to the valve release, it's not easy to find but it is in very close proximity and directly under the opening in the carpet. It might be tight at first, but you should be able to "feel" it once you have the flat blade engaged. If you can get a small hand mirror and a flashlight, you may be able to see it. You only need to turn it 1/2 a turn once you find it. The top will have some resistance, this is normal, just use constant pressure to put it up or lower it and do it evenly by holding it from both sides as shown in the RAC video. Mind your fingers and don't forget to secure the side flap actuator arms on both sides so the flaps are up and the actuator arms are not hanging loose!


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *IWEM* - Just to clarify, there's not much you can "break" with regards to the parts involved. The spline shaft has a small threaded hole in one end - it's the end you see when you first expose the assembly. You screw the crank arm tool into this end and then once secure, *PULL THE SPLINE SHAFT STRAIGHT OUT. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ROTATE IT!*

I think what's happening is people are screwing the threaded end into the spline shaft and then attempting to turn it in order to open or close the roof. If you attempt to rotate the spline shaft while it's still in the motor assembly, that will DEFINETLY snap off the little threaded stud inside the crank arm tool and will end up inside the spline shaft.

If this is what happens, you don't really need a new spline shaft or crank arm tool unless you just want to replace the spline shaft and the crank arm tool. While you would no longer be able to use the tool as intended, you could pull the spline out with vise-grip pliers and live with it.

Once the spline shaft has been removed, THEN you flip the crank arm tool over, insert the spline end of the crank arm tool into the motor assembly until it is FULLY SEATED up to the actuator splines. THEN you can rotate it to open and close the latch. NOTE!! If the crank arm tool doesn't go in all the way as shown in the drawings STOP! If you attempt to rotate it while it's only engaged in the motor gear, you'll either snap off the crank arm tool or seriously damage the motor assembly.

I recommend you download the PDF on my post and read it step by step. It will walk you through this whole process and covers any contingencies you may run into and has a few drawings and pictures to help explain everything.


----------



## mjhamilton

AndyJay said:


> Having read all of the posts here, i have to add my story.
> I had an issue with the roof sticking half way when trying to get the roof up.
> I couldn't get to the pressure release screw so called RAC.
> I had to upgrade my account to cover me at home at a cost of £95 (been with them for 13 years and only used them twice).
> A sub-contractor came out who didn't have a clue how to do the manual roof close so i showed him the RAC video on youtube on my laptop.
> I helped him lift the roof up as stated in the video then he proceeded to crank the roof back in to place, damaging the cranking tool and the bolt at the same time.
> Next morning the dash lights and warning message stated that the roof was not placed correctly (i forget the actual messages) so the RAC visited my place of work and advised i took to a particular local garage.
> I did this and was charge £135 for 'setting' the roof.
> Now i'm left with a broken crank and the damaged splined bolt stuck in my roof.
> RAC won't accept responsibility.
> 
> Any advice on how to get the bolt out?
> It comes out pretty easy with the crank tool as i've had to manually lift the roof before without issue.
> The crank tool just screws on to the bolt and you pull it done squarely.
> I'm worried about trying it with pliers in case i damage something else.
> 
> Not impressed with RAC.
> 
> Thanks
> Andy


not really sure why you were relying on the RAC to resolve this issue - should have taken it to a specialist - they are not really a replacement for a garage

And to be fair these tools are not all that strong so if you are not sure what you are doing it is possible to break them


----------



## AndyJay

Hi mjhamilton

Why wouldn't I rely on the RAC to get the roof back up and closed?
I could hardly drive the car with the roof half way up!!
If this had happened miles away from home, I would have still relied on the RAC.

Andy


----------



## AndyJay

SwissJetPilot Brilliant

Thank you for that perfect explanation.
I now fully understand how the whole thing works.
I will be testing the roof this evening and hopefully it will work as it should do since the garage "re-set" it.
If i do have issues, I now feel confident that I can get the roof back up.

I still have the spline bolt on order so if it comes I may as well keep it as a spare if the one in place is ok.

Thanks again
Andy


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *AndyJay* - Glad I could help. I actually updated the PDF file to comment on the use of pliers to remove the spline shaft if the little threaded stud is broken off. It's probably a good idea to always have a pair vice-grip pliers in the car just in case. They come in handy for all sorts of minor problems.

For a more information on the top, read "SSP 391 Auti TT Roadster". It's a self study document that provides a lot more detail on how the roof operates than what's in the owners manual. You can find a link to it here in the forum under Section 9 -

*FAQ - Audi TT (8J) Workshop Manuals & Self Study Programs*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1833829

If your CAT is broken or missing, you can use vise-grips to remove the spline shaft. You only need to apply enough pressure to the spline shaft that it doesn't slip out of the jaws. Grab the last 5-6mm of the spline shfat and pull the spline shaft straight out. *DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ROTATE IT!*

You can also use this method to latch and secure the top, but the motor will have to be removed.


----------



## Makis-TT

Hi lads,

I see that we all experience problems with our roofs, the exact time we actually need them!

I had my both flaps replaced last August as I got several failures to close the roof while being down. The works took place after several 're-sets' from the local dealer. After the replace, all good. This summer I had problems again, leading to the right flap being replaced (had to wait 2 weeks for the part to be shipped from Germany)

To avoid any future frustration, I bought a VCDS cable and software from an online marketplace, to be able to delete errors /re calibrate the roof myself.

Are you aware of any doc/pdf which goes through the steps you need to follow to do this on VCDS?

Much appreciated.

Makis


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *Makis-TT* - Couple of places for you to get started. See if these work out for you.

*Source*: 





02000 - Ross-Tech Wiki







wiki.ross-tech.com





*02000 - Switch Position*

02000 - Switch Position: Implausible Signal
Possible Symptoms
- Automatic Roof not working
Possible Causes
- Automatic Roof Switch Positions implausible ## Micro Switch faulty
Possible Solutions
- Check Micro Switches ## Check Measuring Value Blocks (MVB)
Special Notes:

When found in Audi TT (8J) Roadster: Automatic Roof ## With fault code(s) 03246 and/or 03247:
Check MVB 008 for plausibility
TSB 61-09-02 or 2018777 for NAR (North American Region) vehicles.

*Sensor for Canopy Flap; Left (G596)*
Special Notes:

If the Convertible Top Flap Sensor G596 has been replace, then the Output Test Top Flap Initialization is required.
When found on the Audi TT (8J) Roadster, please see: ## TPI 2018624 for RoW (Rest of World) vehicles
TSB 61-09-02 or 2018777 for NAR (North American Region) vehicles.
The bulletins references improved flap motor(s), checking measuring block group 008 and adapting the new flap motors. The faults associated with the bulletins include: 02000, 03246, and 03247.
When found on Audi vehicles, TPI 2018777 may apply.

*Sensor for Canopy Flap; Right (G597)*
Special Notes:

If the Convertible Top Flap Sensor G597 has been replace, then the Output Test Top Flap Initialization is required.
When found on the Audi TT (8J) Roadster, please see: ## TPI 2018624 for RoW (Rest of World) vehicles
TSB 61-09-02 or 2018777 for NAR (North American Region) vehicles. ## The bulletins references improved flap motor(s), checking measuring block group 008 and adapting the new flap motors. The faults associated with the bulletins include: 02000, 03246, and 03247.
When found on Audi vehicles, TPI 2018777 may apply.

*Source*: 





Audi Workshop Manuals > TT Roadster L4-2.0L Turbo (BPY) (2008) > Body and Frame > Sensors and Switches - Body and Frame > Convertible Top Position Sensor / Switch > Component Information > Technical Service Bulletins > Customer Interest for Convertible Top Position Sensor / Switch: > 610802


TT Roadster L4-2.0L Turbo (BPY) (2008) > Audi Workshop Manuals > Body and Frame > Sensors and Switches - Body and Frame > Convertible Top Position Sensor / Switch > Component Information > Technical Service Bulletins > Customer Interest for Convertible Top Position Sensor / Switch: > 610802



workshop-manuals.com





*Convertible Top Position Sensor/Switch Convertible Top Inoperative/DTC's Set*
TSB 61-08-02 or 2018777/1 - September 19, 2008

*Convertible top inoperative*
Condition: The convertible top is inoperative, generally at the point where the convertible top frame cover flaps on the right and left have fully opened.

Any or all of the following DTCs may be stored:

DTC 02000 (Switch Position-Incorrect Signal).
DTC 03246 (Left Top Flap Sensor G596-Incorrect Signal).
DTC 03247 (Right Top Flap Sensor G597-Incorrect Signal).

Technical Background:
A fault in the potentiometer in the cover flap motors sends an implausible signal to the convertible top control unit. The convertible top operation control unit stops the top operation when the cover flaps are fully open.

Service:
1. Check and/or adjust the push rods of the flap motors using Guided Fault Finding. Go to address word 26-Convertible top operation J256, and view measuring value block 8. MVB 8 of the electric roof operation shows the threshold and actual values for the potentiometers. The shift points of the
left/right flap sender are shown in open condition:

Field 01: Switch threshold-Left Top Flap Sensor G596 (maximum allowable value when flap is open).
Field 02: Actual value-Left Top Flap Sensor G596.
Field 03: Switch threshold-Right Top Flap Sensor G597 (maximum allowable value when flap is open).
Field 04: Actual value-Right Top Flap Sensor G597.

2. Adjust the push rods of the flap motors while viewing the MVB. The actual value must be less than the switch threshold value after the adjustment. If the actual value is greater than the threshold value, an implausible condition can result.

I would recommend you contact "ReTTro fit" directly and see if he has anything else to add. I think he is probably one of the more technically savvy, VAGCOM users in here.  If he points you in any particular direction or gives you a list of codes, please be so kind as to add them here for future reference.

Image source: http://www.audi-portal.com/en/diagnosti ... 6&model=11


----------



## Makis-TT

SwissJetPilot,

Thank you for that! Today I received the cable and the software, so I will give it a go and see what happens.

I reckon that I will not get any faults, as things are working at the moment.


----------



## ReTTro fit

You've covered the vitals Swiss

Vital that the output test is done

[Select]
[26 - Auto Roof]
[Output Tests - 03]
[Select] Selective Output Tests
[Choose]Convertible Top Flap Initialisation 
[Start]
Operate the Convertible Top throughout a complete Open/Close sequence BEFORE exiting the Output Test function.
[Done, Go Back]
[Close Controller, Go Back - 06]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ScoTTish

AndyJay said:



> Hi ScoTTish -
> 
> I also had difficultly in finding the screw slot!
> Is it a Flathead or cross-head?
> Does it 'spring back' once you've release the pressure or do you have to close it again?
> 
> So hard to find instructions or diagrams.
> 
> Cheers
> Andy


Hi Andy,
I was located on it, it was just really stiff (I think being part way up put more pressure on it?). Anyway the breakdown man managed it.

Been away on business ever since so not had a chance to try it again to see if it has reset or to find out what fault it has. Might be looking for anyone in the Portsmouth area with a vcd that can scan for faults and clear them..

Thanks for the replies guys...


----------



## SwissJetPilot

*What to do If the Crank Arm Tool doesn't go in all the way or can't be removed - *

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1827978


----------



## mjhamilton

AndyJay said:


> Hi mjhamilton
> 
> Why wouldn't I rely on the RAC to get the roof back up and closed?
> I could hardly drive the car with the roof half way up!!
> If this had happened miles away from home, I would have still relied on the RAC.
> 
> Andy


first time you were out and about the second time you were sitting on the drive at home

Common sense would have made me not use the roof until I had sought advice or booked it into a specialist to diagnose - RAC are a recovery service so cutting corners in trying to use them as a way to avoid paying for a proper garage is never going to end well


----------



## SwissJetPilot

The convertible system is such that you never need to be stuck with the roof open, closed or in a halfway position.

Once you release the pressure relief valve on the hydraulic pump, you can raise or lower the top all you want. With the instructions I just provided on how to deal with the motor assembly and latches, you could open, close and secure the top even if you have a warning for a bad sensor.

The RAC (or any other motor club) is not likely to know the finer details of these sorts of operations on either the Audi TT or any other car. They're there just for the basic breakdown problems. Frankly, the Audi owners manual is total crap. You pretty much need either the RAC YouTube video or SSP 391 in order to close it without breaking something.

The basic steps are simple:
1. Open the pressure relief valve 1/2 turn
2. Disconnect and secure the flap actuator arms (the flaps are spring loaded and will go up on their own)
3. Raise the top
4. Access the top motor assembly and remove the spline shaft
5. Open/close the latches and secure the top
6. Close the pressure relief valve

If you do all this and get the top closed, you should be able to cycle the top. If not, then it's a quick trip to the dealership to have the error codes cleared. Either way, there's no reason to ever be stuck with a top that won't close.


----------



## AndyJay

Hi all
I'm back with the exact same problem.
My roof is now stuck in the closed position, again with the crank tool snapped off inside of the splined gearing bolt.
The bolt is out and i have a new bolt and crank key tool.
I'm struggling with getting the new bolt in position, which is fully inserted to engage both gears.
To be able to slacken off the motor and correct alignment, i need to take off the cover.
Mine is the one with a small round rubber bung in the center.
I can pull the rear part of the whole cover away from their plastic clips, but i can't get at whatever is fixed to the front of the cover.
I have attached a couple of photos to explain better.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *Andy Jay* - Unfortunately you can't remove the plastic motor housing cover with the top closed. There are a series of small screws which run along the length of the top (left to right) and are not accessible when it's in the closed position.

What you might try doing is having a friend hold the panel open as you've shown. Use an extra long angled T-25 Torx wrench and then reach inside and remove the Motor Bracket and Motor. Once out of the way, you can insert the tool and unlatch the top.

Alternatively, you can loosen them, push the motor to the right and attempt to position the spline shaft. Once the spline shaft it back in, then tighten all three screws again. Note - In the images below, the bracket has already been removed.

Just remember - *DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ROTATE THE SPLINE SHAFT* - while pushing the spline shaft into the motor assembly or you will snap off the little screw inside.

The misalignment may not always be rotational, if the motor shifts left, then it's an axial misalignment between the center lines of the actuator and motor gear. There's a rubber stub on the right side of the motor housing that inserts into a hole in the sheet metal mounting plate. When the spline shaft is removed, there's enough pressure in the rubber stub that the motor can move to the left, creating the axial misalignment. By loosening the torx screw, you can push the motor to the right, then insert the spline shaft, and retighten the torx screw.

This is why you can't properly insert the spline end of the crank arm tool after removing the spline shaft. The motor shifted left and when the spline end of the tool passes through the motor gear, it hits the edge of the latch actuator rather than passing into it. This is when people think the tool is engaged in the actuator, when in fact it's still engaged in the motor gear, and when they attempt to rotate it, the end up snapping it off.



































The Roof Trim Cover does not seem to be listed in the convertible top parts list so it's probably considered part of the entire top assembly. If damaged, it would have to be sourced from a scrap yard or reseller; (e.g. eBay, etc.). Obviously the panel version provides much better access to the motor than the bung hole version, but I don't know if they are interchangeable.


----------



## AndyJay

Hi SwissJetPilot
I now have some torx tools, just hope they're long enough.
I'm going to give it ago this afternoon and hopefully get this fixed.
I also have a friend who can reset the dash roof light so fingers crossed I finally get it all working again.

Andy


----------



## SwissJetPilot

One other note, between the motor and the latch mechanism is a small 1"- diameter washer with felt on one side. The spline shaft passes through it. The washer has felt on one side and the felt side should be against the motor (downwards). Since you already have the problem with limited access, you don't want to drop it as it will probably be a real drama to get out. Having said that, it may or may not be there on earlier models but keep an eye out for it.

In the photo, the motor housing has been removed so you can see the actuator and spline shaft clip. In the illustration, I have circled where the washer is located. And whatever you do, don't try to rotate the spline shaft while it's still in the crank arm tool or you will snap off the stud. When the spline shaft is in the crank arm tool, it can only be pushed in or pulled out - don't rotate it!

It's damn fiddly, so just go slow and take your time.  Good luck! 

If this doesn't work out for getting the spline shaft back in, the other option is to manually open the top enough to remove the entire plastic cover since getting that out of the way will make your life so much easier.

If all else fails, take it in and also bring up these recall notices (may only be for US models, but it doesn't hurt to ask)...

TSB #2015779/5: Conv. Top Assem. adjust.
Recall: #61645699: Replace Drive Units
TSB #2018777/5: Update Control Module to 8J7 959 259 E with Software Level 140 TSB 61B3

Other TSB and recalls I found on other Audi Forums to be aware of -
Recall 61905699 Replace Water Drain Hose for Conv. Top
Recall 20712599 Replace Rollover Valve on Fuel Tank


----------



## SwissJetPilot

My TT is currently flashing the yellow roof warning light (K215) on the tachometer, and displaying the DIS message, "Soft top can not be use" every time I operate the convertible top operating switch. As my VCDS just arrived today, I gave it a scan this evening in hopes I could figure it out. Sure enough, four faults found:

02000 Switch Position 008 - Implausible Signal
03246 - Sensor for Canopy Flap; Left (G596)
03247 - Sensor for Canopy Flap; Right (G597)
00446 - Function Limitation due to Under - Voltage

So out of curiosity, I cleared the error codes, and ran a second scan. This time, no errors. But in the advanced scan option, I managed to get; Address 26: Auto Roof Convertible Top Control Sw. (E137).

I looked up my handy SSP 391 and discovered that E137 is the convertible top operating switch in the center console. I was not expecting that! So, looks like I have some more investigation ahead. I seriously doubt the switch has failed, so I'll have to sort out if a fuse is the real problem. Never a dull moment!

SSP 391 can be found here under Section 9 -
*FAQ - Audi TT (8J) Workshop Manuals & Self Study Programs*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1833829


----------



## TT-driver

Haven't read all of the previous postings, lazy me. So my post could be crap.

But under voltage _could_ be the result of an earth connector (oh boy TT-Driver again with his earth connectors) that isn't properly connected to earth (corrosion). The system is relying on a 2.5mm2 earth wire that, according to the wiring schema, ends on the left in the boot space.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *TT-driver* - Worth looking into, thanks.


----------



## TT-driver

11.85-12.10V is a tad on the low side, especially if the engine was running.

I have a VCDS version at home for emergency purposes only and it came from a country where around 1,4M people live who predominately have black hair. They are the world's best copiers too. There hasn't been a reason yet to open up the box it is stored in. 

Anyway: there is this thing:

http://www.ross-tech.net/VCDS/download/ ... l-2015.pdf

but it's very unmanly to go there.  (or here: http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/tour/main_screen.php)
I know there's also a list of so-called measurement blocks.

There is no such thing as a fault guiding system in VCDS as far as I'm aware. That is for Audi mechanics only, so they know exactly what to replace (in order to avoid repairs :lol: )


----------



## SwissJetPilot

No, engine wasn't running. I might try it and see if that affects the scan. Okay great, thanks for the links. That looks like a couple of really good places to start.

But - like most manly-men, I only the use owners manual for a beer coaster; just as the Good Lord intended. Or occasionally rolled up to beat the laptop profusely when the option I selected failed to provide the desired results.


----------



## TT-driver

Then the voltage isn't too bad.

And that is how manuals should be used. :lol:


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Update - After the error codes were cleared and all I had was the "02000 Switch Position 008 - Implausible Signal" it was clear the trying to operate the top operating switch wasn't doing anything. With the ignition in the first position (motor not running) I opened opened the hydraulic valve and lowered the top back it into the open position manually. As soon as I did this, the indicator light in the dash (K215) stopped flashing and the DIS "Soft top not secure" message went out. I then closed the hydraulic valve again, and was able to raise (close) the top normally using the convertible top operating switch.

As the roof starts to come up, the top lock motor (V223) will operate as it attempts to re-position the latches from the 'latch stored' position to the 'latch open' position. Since the spline shaft has been removed, the motor can rotate freely and will continue to rotate as long as you hold the top control switch (E137). With the spline shaft removed, the top motor can't rotate the actuator, which moves the the latch arms, which in turn triggers the (F294) top lock open switch.

At this point, the top had come up about 1/4 of the way from the stowed position. Without using the crank arm tool, 
I could manually insert the spline shaft into the motor housing gear spline as far as it would go. Since the two splines are out of sync, the spline shaft was prevented from fully seating into the actuator. By tapping the top control switch (E137) on-off-on-off it rotates rotates the spline shaft. Each time it stopped, I attempt to push the spline shaft to fully seat it all the way into the actuator spline. Once fully seated, I continued to close the top normally.

If you go through all this, remember to re-install the metal washer (felt side against the motor housing). Re-insert the spline shaft and re-tighten the motor mount torx screw. Note - this can be done by one person, but it's much easier to do with two; one to bump the top control switch, and the other to line up the washer and insert the spline shaft.

NOTE - There are two ways the splines can become misaligned which will prevent you from re-installing the spline shaft;

(1) Axial alignment - the center lines of the two splines are no longer centered.

(2) Rotational alignment- when one or both of the splines have rotated such that the spline can pass through the motor gear, but not seat into the actuator spline as described above.

In the first case, loosening the motor torx screw will allow you to move the motor housing around enough to line up the motor gear spline with the actuator spline. However if rotational alignment is off, then you will need to turn motor freely in order to align the motor spline with the actuator spline. This can only be done by energizing the motor.

With the motor cover off, the spline shaft removed, and the hydraulic valve open, manually lower the roof into it's fully open position - be sure the flap control rods are disconnected and in the stowed position to they don't get pinched or bent!

Use the torx driver and loosen the motor mount screw. You don't need to remove it, just loosen it enough that the motor can me moved a little.

Close the hydraulic valve, reconnect the flap control rods, and close the roof normally using the top control switch (E137).

.


----------



## chestnutree

Wow, this thread has come a long way since I posted it 3 years ago.

Since then, I have given the car back to the garage and purchased a 2008 model. A couple of months ago the roof on this one also failed with the right flap sensor error.

I fixed this by following the ross tech guide.... clear codes, run output tests and run the roof through the full open close sequence (Which took forever as it stops every inch and you have to keep pressing the open/close button to move through each stage)

Unfortunately yesterday it failed again. Previously, it would fail in the open position, needed raising manually and then the lock would operate electronically with the switch once the roof was up. This time around it won't even open. Error appears on the DIS straight away. A scan shows:

3 Faults Found:

02000 - Switch Position 
008 - Implausible Signal
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101000

03246 - Sensor for Canopy Flap; Left (G596) 
008 - Implausible Signal
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101000

03247 - Sensor for Canopy Flap; Right (G597) 
008 - Implausible Signal
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101000

I cleared the faults and tried to open the roof. Same fault and same DTC's came back. I cleared the codes and then tried to run the output tests and reprogram the roof but again it failed to move and threw up the same error codes.

Reading the reply a few above, do I need to manually open the roof, then hopefully it will work to close automatically with the switch? which will relearn the system and fix the issue?

Also mentioned in this post are TSB's. Would Audi repair the issue under a previous TSB if the car is no longer in warranty?

I also read a post elsewhere which mentioned that if the roof is slightly knocked during operation (simply a gust of wind if operating whilst driving) it could throw up these codes and something such as a bolt on a rod needs adjusting inside the flap motor. I got a little lost reading this. Any ideas?


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## chestnutree

Just found the article I was referring to in my last paragraph. Funnily enough, it's written by SwissJetPilot who's reply I was referring to above  But it's not the same article which mentions adjusting the positioning of the flaps.

http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread. ... udi-TT-(8J)-Convertible-Top-and-VCDS-Related-Issues


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## chestnutree

OK, now I feel silly. The other post I was referring to regarding "adjusting the rods" was also by SwissJetPilot on this very post! Posted: 18 Aug 2016, 18:02

After listing all of my 3 error codes it starts: A fault in the potentiometer in the cover flap motors sends an implausible signal to the convertible top control unit

How do I actually adjust the rods so that the value falls under the switch threshold ?


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## SwissJetPilot

Couple of other possibilities (a) rod length has changed (b) flap position has changed. It's possible that when you disconnected the rods in order to perform a manual close, they could have gotten caught in the frame and were damaged. With regards to the flaps, if they got caught or if someone pressed on it when the top was open, that could cause a misalignment. Some ideas before you replace the flap motor -

1. Verify rods are not damaged and that the length is the same for both rods. For accuracy, use a vernier caliper.

2. Ensure the flaps have not been moved out of alignment and adjust if necessary -

*How to: Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Convertible Roof Flap Alignment*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1920497

3. Clean the potentiometers inside the flap motor housing: (If you have to replace it anyway, at least you tried!)

*How to: Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Convertible Top Flap Servo R&R*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1786641

4. Verify the adaptation procedure.

5. Challenge Audi with these TSBs -

TSB #2015779/5: Conv. Top Assem. adjust.
Open Recall: #61645699: Replace Drive Units
TSB #2018777/5: Update Control Module to 8J7 959 259 E with Software Level 140


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## SwissJetPilot

Found this Technical Service Bulletin Document SB-10066978-6903.pdf for adjustments of the convertible top.

Other TSBs are available to the general public from the NHTSA website. Here's the link for Audi TTs. Well worth going through them as I have seen a number of related topics listed in the TSBs that have come up in this forum. Unfortunately, the titles are pretty vague to you'll have to do a little digging and not every TSB has an associated PDF. You will have to go through each one to see if there is an associated document linked to the notice.

General -
Recalls | NHTSA

Audi TT -
https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2012/AUDI ... unications

Here's another TSB on the hydraulic pump - also worth a read-
View attachment SB-10066972-6903[1].pdf

View attachment TSB-10066978-6903 Audi TT Mk2 Roadster.pdf


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## chestnutree

Thanks Swiss.

Looks like I'm going to be reading and testing for quite a few hours. The only thing that scares me is the very first stage.... When it happened on my last TT, after screwing the crank into the spline shaft to pull it out, the screw snapped off inside and was stuck forever.... Scared of doing this again! Luckily on the last TT, I didn't realise until afterwards that the roof would lock automatically, just wouldn't lift. I need to do it on this one as it's refusing to unlock.

It's a shame that this:
02000 - Switch Position 
008 - Implausible Signal

doesn't tell me which of the many switches it is. Measuring blocks and more googling I guess.


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## SwissJetPilot

"...after screwing the crank into the spline shaft to pull it out, the screw snapped off inside and was stuck forever."

The reason it snapped off is because you turned it. There is only one purpose for that end of the crank, and that is to *PULL* the spline shaft straight out *WITHOUT TURNING IT* - that's the *PULL* end of the tool, not the *TURN* end. 

You can always use a pair of vise-grip pliers to pull the spline shaft out, and then use the spline-end of crank arm tool to lock the top. No point buying a new spline shaft and crank tool. Just keep a pair of small vise-grips in the boot.

As for locking and unlocking, if the crank doesn't fit all the way in after you've removed the spline shaft, you're only engaged with the motor. If you try to turn it in this condition, you will either snap off the spline-end of the tool, or destroy the gear inside the motor. The crank has to fit all the way in until the shoulder is against the motor housing.

If you're stuck and can't sort this out and need to get the top locked and secure, just remove the motor housing, insert the spline-end of the tool and then you can lock it and/or unlock it. Then come back, go through the solutions in this post until you can get it sorted out. It's not actually that difficult, but it can be frustrating! Been there - done that!


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## chestnutree

Thanks again,

I did read that bit about aligning the two parts to get the spline through, but just like the other member unfortunately I just have a bung on this car and the roof is stuck closed. My last TT had the lovely cover which removed to expose the entire lot.

With regards to snapping off the screw thread in the spline shaft, it was when pulling downwards that it snapped. Maybe I didn't get the angle quite right :S

In the car now, wish me luck.


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## SwissJetPilot

The little screw inside the tool gets snapped off because people screw the tool onto the spline shaft and turn it instead of pulling the spline shaft out.

The tool has two ends for two different purposes -
• Use the cup/screw to remove the spline shaft by pulling it out
• Flip the tool over, insert it all they way in and rotate to latch the roof


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## chestnutree

OK, a little confused now. I didn't need the crank in the end.

Went to measuring blocks and just thought, while I'm here i'll try the roof. It opened and closed fine :S

At one point, it threw up the same 3 error codes, but continued to work anyway and then cleared themselves.

I thought it was best to reinitialise the flaps whilst I was at it. After doing this, I did notice the threshold for them being open dropped from 150 to 70. What are yours? What should they be and can I change this value? If I understand correctly, if I can increase this threshold then it's less likely the roof will fail because with a higher threshold, the flaps are less likely to trigger another failure. Am I correct?

One last thing.... When you were reinitialising the flap motors, when you press to open/close roof button, does it run through the full cycle by itself? Or does the roof stop roughly every 1 inch leaving you the need to keep pressing and releasing the button until it eventually completes it's full cycle?


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## chestnutree

SwissJetPilot said:


> Just had a Beavis and Butthead flashback to Cornholio and his "bung hole".
> 
> Good luck with yours! :mrgreen:


 :lol:


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## SwissJetPilot

So far I have been lucky with the VCDS scans and cycling the top in that everything worked okay and all the errors cleared out. Unfortunately, I didn't think to record the VCDS scans when I was sorting out my top before and after, and once the problem was resolved I wasn't too worried about it. In hind-site, I should have done so.

I can't speak to the threshold setting as I have never changed them (touch wood) so you'll have to do more research on that topic. I guess in your situation, you don't have much to lose if you change them and see what happens. Just make sure you record your baseline if you have to go back.

I'm assuming the thresholds are recorded under 26-Auto Roof? I just looked at a VCDS scan I did save when I was swapping out my lights to LEDs a few weeks ago, and now that the top is working properly there are no faults listed: _26-Auto Roof -- Status: OK 0000_ . I need to get back into it (when it warms up again) and list all the sub-menus under this section for my own reference.

The top ran smoothly every time I was cycled it - no delays or jerkiness in operation.


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## chestnutree

I've finally managed to reach the page on the manuals site you linked referring to TSB's and adjustment of the flaps. I'm off out to measure the distances now.

RE the jerkiness, it is ONLY when going to > auto roof 26 > Output tests > flap initialisation > start

When operating the roof during this initialisation, it stops after every inch of movement, even during the unlocking of the latches. I have to release the open button and then press it again for every inch of movement, meaning the whole process takes around 5 mins. Does yours not do this? If not, then maybe I have a bigger issue?

Operating the roof normally when not running this initialisation, I have no issues at all. Completely smooth open/close.


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## SwissJetPilot

Sounds like the hesitation is an intentional part of the diagnostic based on the errors it's finding. No, it did not go through this on mine, but I wasn't cycling the roof while scanning.

There's a list of all the switches and sensors in *SSP 391*, page 13. You might check for those specific numbers when you're into the deeper scan levels under Section 26-AutoRoof.

*Legend:*
E137 Convertible top switch

F170 Convertible top right latch switch
F171 Convertible top stowed switch
F172 Convertible top front latch switch
F202 Convertible top front switch
F294 Convertible top lock open switch
F295 Convertible top lock closed switch (left/right)

G596 Left convertible top cover sender
G597 Right convertible top cover sender

J256 Convertible top operation control unit

K215 Convertible top operation warning lamp

V118 Convertible top operation hydraulic pump
V223 Convertible top lock motor
V381 Right convertible top cover motor
V383 Left convertible top cover motor


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## chestnutree

As my initial fault code was referring to the right flap motor, your link to the TSB may have pointed out the fault. When raising the roof with the wind deflector up, the right flap slams against the wind deflector. According to the manual, they should not touch and there should be a gap of 9.6mm.

Time to get adjusting, but the sun is setting. Will give it a go but might be a job for next weekend.


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## SwissJetPilot

Something else you can try if you haven't done so already is to manually open and close the top with the ignition in the first on-position (second-on position would start the engine).

Don't use the VCDS while you're doing this...

With the top open, turn on the ignition, then raise and then lower the top manually. Turn off the ignition and then see if that helps clear any errors. I think the computer just had to see that the sensors have all triggered in sequence. Since the flap motors rods are disconnected, the servo motors will be at "zero" (for a lack of a better term) but should both give an equal signal between the two of them.

After it's open again, see if you can close/open it normally using the convertible top switch (E137).


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## chestnutree

OK. Adjusted just in time before the sun disappeared.

Right flap has a nice gap of roughly 9.6mm (pretty hard to measure something this precise). Also adjusted the left flap. It wasn't touching but it was still closer than 9.6mm.

Ran the output test initialisation of flap motors again just to "relearn". Then ran 4 successful open/closes without an issue. No faults recorded in VCDS for the roof.

Now that the issue of the right flap opening too far has been pointed out, I can clearly see a mark along the flap where it has been pressed against the trim which isn't there on the left flap.

The only thing I notice now is a slight knock sound under the right flap compartment when the roof raises to about half way. I can't spot anything that's catching. Maybe it has always done this and I'm now only noticing this because I'm paying close attention to the area. The roof lining also slides along the underside of the flap as the roof raises, but again it probably always has done as I can't imagine these few mm will make that much difference.

Only time will tell as to whether this has resolved the issue. At this time of year, the only time it will be used is when trying to get something into the car which is too large to fit with the roof up (Which is what happened Friday. Said item had to be left behind). So the real test will be next summer.

Thanks for your help @ SwissJetPilot. It's strange coming back to my original post for answers but with a different car!


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## Graham'sTT

_"The roof lining also slides along the underside of the flap as the roof raises, but again it probably always has done as I can't imagine these few mm will make that much difference."_
Had my roadster 3 years and mine has always done this. Initially thought it may be a problem, but the roof lining hasn't suffered any wear or snags. Probably slides very gently along the flap underside anyway.


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## SwissJetPilot

@ *chestnutree* - Glad you got it sorted! It's what this forum is really all about - asking questions, doing a little research, trying to understand what's going on and then sharing your findings and results with others. Super! 

The thing is, even the Audi tech's don't have all the answers which is why I'm interested in this topic myself. Some years ago when my top first failed (because I opened it while moving) the Italian Audi dealership was stumped about getting the spline shaft back in. They got the top locked, but they handed me the crank arm tool with the spline shaft still in it and told me to have a German Audi shop look into it. I mean seriously!?

That was the final straw that got me on a mission to figure this thing out so I never have to depend on a dealership for something that's so really so simple yet can really leave you stranded and possibly ruin a nice holiday in a Roadster!

My goal for next year (once it warms up a bit) is to drill down into all the 26-AutoRoof sub-levels as I have started to do with 37-Navigaion section (see attached) and capture all the sub-level menus and related pop-up screens.
















View attachment vcds codes 37 Navigation.pdf


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## chestnutree

Thanks for confirming Graham 

SwissJetPilot, I can't believe the Italian dealership did that! I hope you filed a complaint.

I do like to always come back with the result. Like you say, it helps others which is what a forum is all about. It's annoying when someone is provided with help but they don't post the results because you never know whether it fixed it. I do babble on a little, but sometimes those small details may be what someone else needs.

I did fix the roof on this car a couple of months ago but it appears it was only temporary. So hopefully this adjustment and relearn will be the permenant fix. Only time will tell. Not holding my breath but I'm hoping it is sorted.


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## SwissJetPilot

*The following DIY is for cleaning the Flap Servo Potentiometers *

This was 'borrowed' from a French Audi TT website. I took the liberty of auto-translating the information, did a little of my own editing and have uploaded the text and pictures here. Credit given where it's due: http://www.audi-connecttion.com/t7611-t ... 2-roadster

Further investigation of this topic on other TT sites revealed that excessive grease on the Servo Potentiometer contacts is very common. This may be causing a fault error (implausable signal) during VCDS scans. Unfortunately just replacing it with another Servo may not make the problem go away it the new Servo has the same problem. The only way to know for sure is to open up the Servo case and perform an inspection. If excessive grease is noted on the contacts, then you will have to clean them as described in this post.

During this procedure, it's a good idea to use a pen to mark the current locations of everything you remove so you can put it all back exactly where it was. The 4-bolts that secure the Flap Assembly to the frame are very important since they not only secure the flap assembly to the frame, but they maintain alignment. (See previous post which discussed alighment).

*NOTE -* The Servo Flap Motors can be removed without having to remove the Flap Assembly as described in this post. While a bit more challenging, you won't have to worry about Flap Assembly mis-alignment issues. It's a good idea to place a towel around this area so nothing falls into the "abyss" as recovering a lost screw will be more of challenge than R&R of the servo assembly.

Removal of the Flap Servo Motor without removing the entire Flap Assembly -
1. Open the top.
2. Disconnect the ball-link from the flap.
3. Unscrew the three torx screws holding the Servo Motor in place.
4. Disconnect the plug.

------------------------------

Hi everyone, as this is a common problem, I did a little tutorial to save you time and money!

This "syndrome" side flap sensors is quite common from what I have seen on different forums. Since it's an electronic problem, it is often intermittent and difficult to diagnose.

The typical symptom is the roof does not want to close. The side flaps rise and then nothing! At the end of the cycle, your windows "hop" instead of going back up in one go.

The sensor inside the servo motor is only a potentiometer which measures variable resistance. It is connected to the flap by an arm and ball linkage. The value of the resistance varies according to the position of the flap and the computer reads this value to know the position of the flap. If the sensor is dirty, the value will be wrong and the computer will not know the position of the flap and the top fails to operate correctly.

1. Start closing the roof. Once the flaps are fully lifted, stop and turn off the ignition.

2. The flap assembly is held in place by these 4x-10mm bolts. Be careful they are not very tight, they are short and it is easy for them to fall into the abyss of the hood! (Note - during installation, torque to 5-Nm.)

3. Disconnect the blue plug, just a small clip to remove. I advise you to detach the small "leg" to maintain the cable first, you will be more free of your movement. Attention - it is plastic and it's fragile.

4. For cleaning, use a clean cloth, rubbing alcohol (or printed circuit cleaner) cotton swab and/or soft brush.

5. Un-clip the ball-link from the flap and remove the 3-Torx screws. The servo is now detached, and you can work on it.

6. Now open the servo case by releasing the clips. Attention! It's all plastic and fragile. NOTE - It might be a good idea to remove the Audi product label. (A good way to released them without breaking them is to take an old credit card, cut it up into 1/2" strips and use these to wedge into each clip).

7. Once the servo case is open, a last obstacle stands in front of us - here on the sensor of the right pane, for the left pane we have no problem the gear is fixed on the other side of the box. We must remove the gear to access the circuit tracks, a small pressure at the point of the arrow, and we gently pull the axis down.

8. Here you have perfect access to the circuit tracks and the contacts fixed on the gear. I let you appreciate the state of mine, full of grease. Not surprising that the values are distorted!

9. De-grease the contact surfaces until all grease has been removed. Personally, I reused the grease back onto the gears where it was missing.

10. Once clean, we reinstall everything. Two small points of attention; (1) Remember to replace the gear so that the rod is in the same position as disassembly (otherwise you could not attach it to the flap). (2) When installing the flap assembly, use the marks left by the washers on the frame support to replace it at its original place. If not correctly installed, it will require realignment.

11. After everything is back together, cycle the top open and closed a few times as this should clear any error codes. If that doesn't work, a VCDS scan and reset may be required.








































































.


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## SwissJetPilot

*The purpose of this post is to understand the information provided in the VCDS scans in order for you to make an accurate diagnosis yourself and perform the repair. *

Here's another one 'borrowed' from the same French Audi TT website as noted in the previous post. The original article can be found here - http://www.audi-connecttion.com/t3714-f ... -la-capote

It's a good idea to download and review SSP 391 for the Audi TT Roadster (attached) as it takes you through all of the operational sequences and components of the convertible top.

*1 - Objectives of this Topic*

Before anything else you have to understand the operation of the convertible top is very simple and complex at the same time. It is simple because the operation of the convertible top is only based on actuators and sensors that are governed by a very basic script (GRAFCET). .

Unfortunately, in the event of a problem, the malfunction is complex to diagnose because the VCDS software verifies the operation of the various actuators and sensors but not the integrity of the signal.

Basically, if the sensor is connected and it is not a short circuit, no fault will be detected even if this sensor transmits completely incorrect information to the computer.

Example: One of the side flaps is lifted but the sensor indicates that it is closed, then the Control Unit will not allow operation of the convertible top. You can do a fault search by self-diagnosis, however nothing will be reported.

Specifically, in the case of the J256 Control Unit (which manages all the functions of the convertible top), the defects noted are only a reference but not a reliable diagnosis as to the specific part to be changed. It is therefore important to understand the operation of the convertible top in order to determine the actual malfunction and not replace parts unnecessarily.

Therefore, the purpose of this tutorial will not give you a step-by-step troubleshooting methodology because each failure is different. The goal will be to synthesize the information that will allow you to make the diagnosis yourself and perform the repair.

*2 - How the convertible top works *

Reference SSP 391. Here are the correspondence of the codes of each element:

Located in Cockpit
E137 - Convertible top switch (center console)
K215 - Convertible top operation warning lamp (yellow lamp in the instrument panel)

Located in Convertible Top Frame
F170 - Convertible top right latch switch
F171 - Convertible top stowed switch
F172 - Convertible top front latch switch
F202 - Convertible top front switch
F294 - Convertible top lock open switch
F295 - Convertible top lock closed switch
V223 - Convertible top lock motor

Located in Left Flap Assembly
G596 - Left convertible top cover sender (Servo potentiometer)
V383 - Left convertible top cover motor (Servo motor)

Located in Right Flap Assembly
G597 - Right convertible top cover sender (Servo potentiometer)
V381 - Right convertible top cover motor (Servo motor)

Located in Trunk
J256 - Convertible top operation control Unit (OCU)
V118 - Convertible top operation hydraulic pump

*3 - Two main causes of convertible top failure - Flap Servo Motors & Operational Control Unit*

3a.) Flap Servomotors

The Flap Servo Motor is composed of a motor (V381/V383) and a potentiometer (G596/G597). The motor drives the flaps up and down via the ball-link arm, and the potentiometers indicate the real-time position of the servo to the J256 Operation Control Unit (OCU). This is the only sensor of this type in the convertible top circuitry, the other devices are positional contacts (and theoretically more reliable).

In the event of a malfunction, the potentiometer can send an erroneous signal to the J256 OCU. In this case, either the convertible top is blocked and does not provide any information to the TDB, or it goes into security mode and a message appears on the OBD.

Why these two cases?

If the signal is wrong but not completely false, then no fault appears but the J256 OCU stops its script and waits for good information from the sensor. The result is convertible top remains frozen. In the other case the value provided by the potentiometer is completely false and it is identified as an anomaly (in this case it will be logged in the error log).

If you want to test G596 or G597 with a multi-meter, here are the values that you must have in output .

Open flap = between 1.61v and 1.65v
Closed flap = between 6.61v and 6.65v

You can also test the potentiometers with the VCDS (see the section below on VCDS)

In case of defect reported in the VCDS scan on G596 or G597 it is necessary remove and swap the servo-motors left for right and right for left. If the fault changes side = servomotor defective. If the fault remains on the same side = problem on wiring or good chance that the J256 OCU is defective.

3b.) J256 Convertible Top Operational Control Unit (OCU)

The J256 OCU the unit that centralizes all the information of the convertible top and controls the various actuators. It is located in the trunk next to the battery, secured in the styrofoam trunk bottom liner. As its acquisition inputs are not properly protected they grind easily, especially those related to potentiometers G596 / G597. The test by switching left and right servos is an important test as it will confirm the problem on one of the acquisition inputs.

Another reason to consider replacing to the J256 OCU, is the dysfunction of a relay integrated with the unit and whose function appears neither in the schematics, nor during self-diagnostics VCDS. It is named J588 and it over heats easily on the part that controls the lifting of the hydraulic pump. The Audi A3 Cabriolet has almost the same case as the Audi TT and the 2009 models are already starting to suffer from the same problem.

Depending on the version of VCDS and the J256 OCU, the J588 relay may be tested. (see the section below on VCDS)

Note - The absence of a message on the dashboard also points towards a failure of the J256 OCU

- Button open / close command

The symptoms are completely different from the other two cases, the control is intermittent and the movement of the convertible top is jerky. A light indicates the problem on the dashboard and a message appears on the ODB.

*4 - Diagnosis VAGCOM (VCDS)*

In the event of a breakdown on the convertible top, the VCDS is the indispensable tool. Without it, it is impossible to properly diagnose the failure. The module used will be exclusively No. 26 "Auto Roof".

For this three different actions are possible

Reading fault codes
I will not go too far on this part, you know how it works and you have the codes of the different elements above. I'm just giving you two more codes that may appear which are not part of the previous list.

02000 - Command Position
Ca means that one or more anomalies are detected in the execution of the script.
For example, the G597 has failed and indicates "closed shutter" to the computer and you have closed the convertible top manually. For the computer this hypothesis comes out of the script because it is impossible.

00446 - Limitation of operation due to under-voltage
The voltage of your battery is considered insufficient for the operation of the pump.
This defect usually occurs when you have been working on the car for several hours with the ignition on or else your battery is starting to go.

IMPORTANT: When reading the data logs, focus on the fault that occurred on the day the convertible top was blocked. Sometimes the error log contains logs that are dated and do not necessarily have a direct link to the current failure.

Checking the coherence of the sensor information
In order to check that the sensor information is coherent with the reality, go to Measurement group then select the groups 1, 2 so as to have the following screen

This is what this corresponds

GROUP 1
Convertible top Status (0 = not active / 1 = active)
0000x: F171 sensor hood LOW position (top down)
000x0: F202 sensor hood UP position (recapotée)
00x00: F294 sensor "open position" hooks
0x000: F295 sensor hooks "tight position"
x0000: F170 lock sensor right hook (series-mounted with F172)

Convertible top Flap Status (with 0 = not active / 1 = active)
000X: G596 closed
00X0: G596 open
0X00: G597 closed
X000: G597 Open

Conv Flap
Sensor Left Value of G596

Conv Top Flap sensor Left
Value of G597

Note:
The threshold to have G596 or G597 = open is generally between 52 and 57
The threshold to have G596 or G597 = close is generally between 160 and 165
The thresholds can be changed in " ADAPTATION "but I do not recommend this operation.

GROUP 2
Convertible top control SW E137
Status of the control button E137 (closed / closed / open)

Terminal status 15
Status of the entire device

Voltage (not important)
Always above 12.3V otherwise fault

Temperature (not important)
Mandatory greater than 2°C to avoid manipulating a frozen hood.

Note the screenshots of normal values you must have.

Convertible top closed = (see photo)
Convertible top opcn = (see photo)

With that you are now able to verify that all the information of your sensors is ok.

Test actuators
Depending on your OCU and your version of VCDS, you should have access to the "TEST ACTUATORS"

ATTENTION in this mode you need to think carefully before launching a test. For example if you operate relay J588 while your side flaps are closed I let you imagine the result. Ditto be careful with the hooks that must be returned to the latched position before the convertible top returns to the open position.

Despite the risks, this mode allows you to know if the J588 relay is defective and thus reinforce your diagnosis related to the J256 Control Unit.

In addition, if the J588 works, the other interest of mode is to be able to open/close the top without having to depressurize the hydraulic circuit. It avoids having your head in the trunk and manually open/close the convertible top. It is a good backup solution.

*5 - The wiring*

If the defect is constant despite the switching of the various sensors, before ordering a J256 Control Unit you can test the wiring of your hood. For this a multi-meter is necessary. Two of them makes the job easier.

Here is the correspondence of the cables of the pins

Connector Pin A (10 pin)
1: Convertible top lock drive (drive)
2: Convertible top lock drive (drive -)
3: Hydraulic pump (close)
4: Battery - earth for hydraulic pump
5: Battery - operating voltage for hydraulic pump
6: Not used
7: Not used
8: Supply - positive (term 30)
9: Battery - earth (term 31)
10: Hydraulic pump (open)

Connector Pin B (20 pin)
1: Potentiometer position convertible top cover left
2: Not used
3: Not used
4: Position potentiometer signal ( convertible top cover right)
5: Convertible top close operating switch
6: Position potentiometer voltage supply
7: Convertible top locked microswitch
8 : Earth (term 31) for position potentiometer
9: Group convenience system data bus (CAN High)
10: Group convenience system data bus (CAN Low)
11: Earth (term 31) for Hall senders
12: Convertible top lock closed microswitch
13: Convertible toplock open microswitch
14: Convertible top left open
15: Convertible top cover right close
16: Convertible top operation switch (open)
17: Convertible top open
18: Hall - convertible top closed
19: convertible top cover right open
20: Convertible top cover left close

*6 - Part References and Prices*

Once your diagnosis are complete here are the main components you may need to replace -


8J7 959 255 B; Control Unit for Convertible Roof Controls (~115.00 €)
8J0 959 311 A; Servomotor (~73.00 €)
9J7 959 727; Switch for Hydraulic Convertible Roof Control (~45.00 €)

*7 - Initialization of the J256 control unit*

IMPORTANT: After a change of components on the convertible top, it is imperative to initialize the J256 Control Unit. For this there are three methods:

Forcing the initialization
Switch off the contact
Disconnect the 2 plugs of the computer cap
Put the contact for the CAN GATEWAY detects the absence of the computer
Turn off the contact
Reconnect the two sheets of the calculator top
Put the contact (no need to start)
Wait 20 to 30 seconds and make a reset of defects
Make 3 cycles of opening / closing (if the convertible top is functional)

Adapt the values of the computer
Encode the J256 Control Unit with VCDS as follows.
With the convertible top down and the side flaps closed, go to module No. 26 to clear the faults, then in "Adaptation" set channels 1 to 4 with the values below:

Channel 1 = 01001
Channel 2 = 0101
Channel 3 = 175 (if the left pane remained open enter 45)
Channel 4 = 175 (if the right pane remained open enter 45)

Unfortunately depending on the versions of VCDS and J256 Control Unit the entering adjustment variables is not possible.

The INIT function in VCDS
You will have noticed that the function "TOP FLAP INITIALISATION" is also present in the TEST OF ACTUATORS section of VCDS. I looked for how it works but it has no effect and no learning cycle is launched. Maybe it only works on models from 2009 (?)

*8 - Last Small Tips*

Personally I do not recommend the purchase of used parts because it is still impossible to know if they are reliable. However before you discard the servo motor assembly, it's worth taking the time to disassemble it and verify if there is excessive grease or damage to the potentiometer contacts. If cleaning doesn't solve the problem, then at least you gave it a try before replacing it. On the other hand, if cleaning the contacts was the only problem, you just saved yourself the cost of a new one.

If you have done several manual openings and closings after replacing the servo motors and/or OCU leave the depressurization valve screw open until you hear the hydraulic pump turn for 5 to 10 seconds. Then stop, close the screw and then finish the cycle.

Be methodical in your research and do not hesitate to take screenshots of the VCDS scans because after a while you may not remember what has already been done and the results.

After reading this topic, if you do not you do not feel your are able to do this type of repair, at least have some information to discuss with your service dealer. Expect that they will make every effort to pull you over the table, since they generally don't want to bother with this level of diagnostics and simply want to replace parts because it's easier and more profitable.

View attachment 369578


















































.


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## F3rnando

Amazing job! [smiley=crowngrin.gif]


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## SwissJetPilot

For anyone who has snapped off the little threaded insert inside the spline shaft when attempting it remove it, you can buy a repair kit that includes the Retention Clip, Spline Shaft and Motor Mount Screw. You may also want to replace the crank arm tool (Emergency Key) if the threaded insert in the cup is missing.

1. Repair kit drive shaft convertible top latch: P/N 8J7 871 563
2. Crank Arm Tool (Emergency Key): P/N 8J7 825 381 A

A link to the Repair kit can be found here:
https://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/produ ... 8410C.html

If you don't want to spend the money, you can still remove the spline shaft with a pair of pliers by simply pulling the spline shaft straight out of the motor (don't attempt to rotate it). Having the broken threaded insert stuck in the spline shaft won't affect it one way or another. But you'll still need the other end of the Crank Arm Tool to engage the latch actuator mechanism in order to secure the top when closing it manually.


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## SwissJetPilot

There is a potential risk of the top failing if you are parked sideways on a steep angle (shown below) and attempt to open or close the roof. The weight of the top in the mid-open/closed position can cause the top to "lean" to one side just enough to push against the flap and possibly trigger a fault.

This doesn't seem to be an issue in the pitch angle (fore to aft), only the roll angle (side to side). I can't say what the angle is in degrees, but obviously anything extreme should be avoided.

Point being - it's best to open or close the top on level, or near level ground while stationary.


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## sarahstuck12

chestnutree said:


> Thanks again,
> 
> I did read that bit about aligning the two parts to get the spline through, but just like the other member unfortunately I just have a bung on this car and the roof is stuck closed. My last TT had the lovely cover which removed to expose the entire lot.
> 
> With regards to snapping off the screw thread in the spline shaft, it was when pulling downwards that it snapped. Maybe I didn't get the angle quite right :S
> 
> In the car now, wish me luck.


Hi what kit did you buy to do the readings please


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## sarahstuck12

Quick question, should your windows go fully down before roof goes up?


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## SwissJetPilot

*SSP391* is worth a read...pages 14 -16 cover the opening and closing cycle.You can download it *here*.


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## sarahstuck12

Thanks


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## lekiwi54

Hello all, my first proper post. Thanks first of all for the excellent instructions above from SwissJetPilot. Sorry it's a bit long winded, but if you like details read on!

My wife has had a 2007 TT Mk 2 2.0 S-Line S-tronic for a couple of years which had a new soft top fitted about a year beforehand. The roof worked fine for 6 months before it started getting intermittently stuck in the open position. A scan always showed the typical DTCs for the flap servo motors G596 and G597 and after a top flap initialisation it would be fine again for a while.

It finally gave up the ghost altogether and wouldn't even start to open at the start of winter last year and I decided to leave it until I had time to deal with it. I had previously read on a US forum that the problem was most likely grease on the flap servo motor potentiometers but could not find it again until I stumbled onto this forum and even better instructions from SwissJetPilot which detailed the whole procedure for removing grease from the potentiometers.

Removal of the top flap assemblies seemed fairly straight forward so all I had to do was open the roof and get to work. I'd noticed previously that each time the car was started that the "roof unlocked" light came on briefly but went out after a few seconds. The roof seemed locked properly so I wasn't too worried and put it down to the r/h flap being competely out of range (255 on the measurement block vs 25 for the l/h flap) but now I think it may have been the latch lock switch that triggered the dash light, but not sure.

I had opened and closed the roof manually previously about half a dozen times and each time I'd no problem pulling out the splined shaft that couples the latch motor to the latch mechanism whether the roof was open or locked closed. This time I found it was extremely tight and was even afraid that I might break the tool but with all my strength pulling on the tool the shaft eventually came out. It was the impossible to fully insert the splined end of the tool as the two splines had misaligned even further once the preload was released by removal of the coupling shaft. Per the excellent instructions provided by SJP I loosened the latch motor attach bolt but still couldn't get the tool in and eventually removed the motor completely so that the latches could be unlocked.

I've been wondering why the splined shaft became preloaded and the only thing I can think of is that the last time the roof attempted to open the latch motor moved only slightly before stopping (due to the r/h flap being out of range?) but the latch mechanism was still partially in the lock "detent" (you can feel this detent when locking the latches manually). Because the latch mechanism was partially in the lock detent this caused the splined coupling shaft to become preloaded. Once the shaft was pulled out the latch mechanism moved back into the center of the detent creating even more misalignment which was why it was now impossible to fully insert the splined end of the tool. I can't think of any other reason??

Once the roof was about halfway open I closed the bypass valve on the pump to keep the roof in the half open position and as suggested by SJP removed the entire plastic moulding that covers the latch mechanism and motor. It only takes about 5 minutes and is well worth the trouble when re-installing the latch motor and the metal/felt washer. To align the motor and latch splined I found it easier to move the latch mechanism rather than pulse the motor. The latch mechanism moves very easily with a bit of copper tube slipped over one of the latch hooks.

After that I opened the bypass valve on the pump, lowered the roof, and per the instructions from SJP removed both top flaps with the servo motors, removed the servo motors from the flaps, and cleaned the potentiometers. There was so much grease on the potentiometers it was unbelievable. The only thing I did differently was that I used tapered pieces of plastic card with a chamfer on the tip underside which were easier to get under the plastic tabs of the servo motor and stayed in place better. They open up the tabs a bit further but the tabs seem to be able to handle it. See attached photo.









Once every thing was back together I ran the VCDS Top Flap Initialisation for one full close and open cycle and then opened and closed the roof normally a couple of times. Everything worked great but I noticed that when I checked the measurement blocks that new individual open and close thresholds had been set for both G596 and G597. Previously both flap open thresholds were 70 and both closed thresholds were 160. The new thresholds for open are now +10 of the actual positions and for the closed position -10 of the actual. This was a surprise as I didn't think a Top Flap Initialisation reset the thresholds. Anybody else seen this? See attached measurement blocks screenshots before and after. I did a couple more normal open and close cycles and was pleased to see that the actual closed and open positions of both flaps repeated consistently each time.

Hopefully this will mean no worries this summer about whether the roof will close again each time it is opened!

Cheers, Steve

MBs before fix:








Top Flaps Open (vertical) MBs:








Top Flaps Closed (flat) MBs:


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## SwissJetPilot

@ *lekiwi54* - _"I've been wondering why the splined shaft became preloaded"_ - This may help explain the issue regarding misalignment of the motor and actuator inner-splines and also explains why the emergency tool sometimes gets "trapped" or is impossible to pass through the motor housing gear - https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1827978

Nice trick with the old credit cards to wedge the clips on the servo case - good idea! 

I've added a new few links to this "compendium" of accumulated roadster information. Since you also like detailed information  please take a few minutes, check all the links and see what you think. I'm always looking for more information on the soft top, and if you find anything that doesn't look right, or should be added, please let me know!
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1813290

From the VCDS blocks, you'll find the expected range of the potentiometers is between ~42 to ~184. 
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1829258

The thing to remember about the VCDS is the fault scans only report an error. You have to get into the Meas. Blocks (there are eight of them for the roof) to see the reported values. When you mouse-over the data windows, the specified values are shown with a little pop-up bubble so you can compare the expected value to actual value.
.


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## lekiwi54

@ SwissJetPilot - I'm very impressed with how much information you've gathered and posted. I love detailed information like this, it is so helpful to understand exactly how things work. I'll be looking into what you've posted in more detail and will get back to you.

BTW, I've got a very good mate who is a retired Airbus flight test pilot and I'm always giving him stick because although he is such an brilliant pilot he struggles a bit with technical stuff even though it intrigues him. So I got a kick out of telling him I'd found all this technical information from a guy on the TT forum on the roof issue AND he's a pilot


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## paul.mckelvie76

Hi there,

Sorry to butt into this conversation but I've had the same problems with the soft top roof as mentioned many times throughout the site. I'm not amazingly technical but I read your amazing guide about how to remove the grease from the potentiometer and, sure enough, when I opened up the cases on both sides it's was as if they were smeared with butter. The grease was everywhere and over all the contacts on both sides. I've very carefully cleaned them all out now and reassembled them. They look like new. I used an alcohol based cleaner so I've got all the grease off the places where it shouldn't be.

Anyway, the original problem was that the top wouldn't go back up when I put it down (unless manually operated). Since I reassembled everything I completed the opening the roof procedure to make the flaps go down. Then I tried to close the roof (with the button inside the car). The flaps came up then errored as usual. I manually closed the roof and then tightened the wee screw in the boot again as usual. Now the roof won't even go down. It unlocks then errors.

I read on your manual that "If the roof fails to operate correctly or fails to clear error codes, then a VCDS Adaption is required". Do you think it's likely that this is what I need and does that mean I would have to buy the VCDS cable that costs £100's? I originally wanted to try and fix this myself as the local Audi specialist quoted me £650 to replace a potentiometer and, having inspected it, I would say that the problem was definitely related to the huge volume of grease on them. It seems a lot to pay £100's to buy the cable in case it doesn't solve the problem. Then I'm back where I started and still having to fork out £650 to the Audi specialist.

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Paul.


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## SwissJetPilot

@ *paul.mckelvie76* - Sorry to hear you've had problems with the roof, but it sounds like cleaning up your flap servos was definitely in order. The potentiometer the service guy was talking about was what you just cleaned, so you can use that money towards a VCDS cable and you're still ahead of the game! But, unfortunately, yes, you'll have to run the Servo Flap Adaption in order for the car to accept the cleaned up servo motors.

However, you can always try this first - Manually cycle the top with the engine running.

As before, open up the screw in the boot to relieve the hydraulic valve. Then start the car (parking brake on, transmission in either neutral or Park) and go through the procedure of opening and closing the top manually - but with the engine running to keep the battery up so you don't get a low voltage fault.

Sometimes you can fake out the CANBUS doing this since moving the top will trigger the hall sensors in the frame and the contact switches in the leading edge of the roof when you latch everything shut. Since the flap servo's have been cleaned up, they should now be within the expected functional range so it might work. (Note the expected range of the potentiometers is between ~42 to ~184)

Just be sure to disconnect the ball links and leave the flaps in the default up position when you do this. Once you've done a complete manual open/close cycle, tighten the screw in the hydraulic valve, reconnect the ball links to the flaps and see if you can cycle the top again normally using the center console button.

If that doesn't work, then you're going to need to have the faults cleared and the Adaption performed -
a.) Find someone near you with a VCDS who's willing do it for a 6-pack of their favorite beer.
b.) Buy yourself a VCDS from Ross-Tech (consider it a long term investment if you plan on keeping the car for a while).
c.) Find an good independent service shop who can do it.
d.) Take it back to Audi service - be sure to take your first born as an offering,

Good luck!


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## lekiwi54

Hi Paul,

Sounds like you need to do the Top Flap Initialisation using VCDS. There are plenty of pirate cables and software out there. I got mine on Amazon in 2016 for 22€, version 12.12.1 OBDII HEX + CAN and installed it on an old stand alone laptop running Windows XP and it works fine. You get a few pop errors saying the s/w is out of date that you have cancel, just don't try and update it!

Cheers Steve


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## paul.mckelvie76

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll have a try at the manual procedure you mentioned tomorrow @SwissJetPilot. If that fails I'll maybe see if I can get one of the cables you mentioned @lekiwe54 and give it a shot.

I'm not really sure if I plan to keep the car for any length of time because of the ongoing regular faults with the roof, but if this fixes it I might decide to keep it. I've kinda fallen out of love with the TT in the past year because of this (and a few other niggly things that have happened).

Thanks again though
Paul


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## SwissJetPilot

Hi Paul,

Yeah, I can understand that. Really though, from everything I've read, the Achilles Heel of the top is the roof flap servos. Once people get that sorted they're pretty reliable. Now, as to the rest of the car...yeah, another story entirely.


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## paul.mckelvie76

Cheers for everything though. I think it really does seem like the flaps. They were covered in the stuff. Can't believe they can get away without recalling them for something that's so obviously a point of failure.


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## madmax

Help!

I can't close my roof. The windows go down and the flaps open but then nothing.

I've cleaned the flap servos which were covered in gunk but it's still the same.

Also I cannot seem to locate the screw to release the pressure to close it manually. Does anyone know if it's a Philips or a slot screw? Found the hole in the carpet but can't locate the screw.

I really don't want to leave the roof open overnight and now the sky is looking a bit grey!


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## SwissJetPilot

Did you perform the Adaptation after you cleaned and replaced the servo motors as described in the post?

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1786641

_VCDS Adaption of the Flap Motors -

When performing repairs/replacement of the Flap Motors it may be necessary to perform the Adaption of the Flap Motors.

[Select]
[26 - Auto Roof]
[Output Tests - 03]
[Select] Selective Output Tests
[Choose] Convertible Top Flap Initialisation 
[Start]_

To your question about manually closing the roof, use the slot-end of the screwdriver that comes with the tool kit. Look for the access point in the trunk, left side, close to the bulkhead. You should be able to feel for the screw as it's about 1/2" to 3/4" through the access point. Insert the slot-end of the screwdriver until you feel it hit something, then gently turn the screwdriver until you feel it engage into the slot in the screw.

I highly recommend you read and follow the instructions on how to manually close the top very carefully. Otherwise you're likely to end up with a broken tool or damaged roof components. It can be done by one person, but it's a lot easier with two people as shown in the RAC video.

Access to the roof motor and spline shaft may differ. Early Mk2's have an access plug (you'll see it in the video) while late 2007 and all following year Mk2's have an access panel as shown in the instructions.

Here's a YouTube video on how to close the top manually -





Link to the KB on all this information -
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1347177


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## madmax

Hi,

Thanks for that.

I've found the pressure release screw but it's impossible to move. I've tried squirting a bit of WD40 on it but it won't shift.

I just need to get the roof up by any method before it rains.

I didn't perform the VCDS adaption as I don't have the software or cable. Will have a look now though and order.


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## SwissJetPilot

WD-40 is not penetrating oil, so it probably won't help. You need to use a penetrating oil in order to free up the threads.

Until you open the relief screw, you can't close or open the top without destroying the hydraulic system. There's no way around it.

At this point you might want to get the car to an Audi service center and ask if they can get it sorted for you and store in indoors.
.


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## madmax

Oh, ok. What sort of oil do I need?


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## SwissJetPilot

https://www.amazon.co.uk/WD40-Fast-Rele ... rating+oil

Anything designated as a "release penetrant" should work. Any decent hardware store can point you in the right direction. Go easy, it doesn't take much!

Another option is to remove the carpeting so you can see it better through the access hole in the cover panel. Remove the trunk floor, and you can pop out the four plastic "rivets" along the edge. Lift it up out of the way and you should be able to see the screw more easily.

NOTE - ignore the two outer screws shown in this picture. This is my rig for tie-down D-rings. OEM will have only black plastic rivets shown in the middle.


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## madmax

Ok thanks, will see if I can get some (although I'm out in the sticks). I've already lifted the carpet but can't really see it as there's not enough space in the boot to get my head over it. I'm thinking that I'm going to have to remove the plate that's above it in order to see it properly. :-(


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## SwissJetPilot

Yeah, that's also an option. Unfortunately it's a real bitch to get to. Get yourself some proper light as that will help too. The trunk light on the right side is useless. There should only be one hole in the cover plate to access the hydraulic relief screw, so hopefully you don't have to go to all the hassle of taking the cover plate off. See picture -

If you have a smart phone, maybe you can get the camera over the opening to see what's going on - take a few pics, see if that helps. You can also go through SSP 391 as it has some decent pictures as well.

Not to add insult to injury, but this is EXACTLY why I encourage all Roadster owners to learn and know how to manually open and close their roofs in the peace and quiet and comfort of their own driveways. Doing this with a pending storm, away from home or a good service center and running into problems is not the best time to learn how to do this.

But hey, you'll be that much wiser for the experience!


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## madmax

This is actually the second time for me but I didn't have a problem releasing the pressure last time.

I've got the carpet off now and released the bolts from the plate but the screws just spin. I can see that they are fixed through the plate to some bolts (which just spin with the screws if not held). Do you know how to get the rear screws out as I can't get to the bolts?


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## SwissJetPilot

You should be able to get access to screws on the near-side by going through the holes in the bulkhead (circled). This does not look like fun!

For the screws on the far-side, closer to the bulkhead, you'll probably want to pull the rear panel behind the seat. Once the panel is off, then you can see through the bulkhead, to the black object which is the pump housing.

The black object in the 2nd picture is the hydraulic pump housing.

How to on removing the rear panel -
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1597801


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## SwissJetPilot

@ Madmax - sent you a PM.

Here's a few pages from the Workshop Manual that may help -
View attachment Hydraulic System.pdf

And a quick graphic of the relief screw -

Without going through all the hassle of trying to get the cover off, I'd probably focus on just getting the valve screw opened with a little penetrating oil and some patience.









View attachment Hydraulic System.pdf


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## madmax

Yay, roof closed thankfully!!

Thanks for all of your help, it's much appreciated


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## SwissJetPilot

As mentioned earlier in this post, you might try cycling the top with the engine running (in park/neutral with the parking brake on). By having the engine running, you'll avoid triggering a low-voltage fault.

Sometimes this tricks the CANBUS into thinking the top is okay since the hall-sensors and switches in the roof get triggered as you raise and lower the top.

Once you've cycled the top (open and close), shut the hydraulic valve, reconnect the flap ball links and see if you can operate it normally from the center console switch. Can't hurt to try and may save you a trip to a service shop for the Adaptation setting.


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## paul.mckelvie76

Hi. It's been a few weeks since I was here but I just wanted to say thanks for all the advice you gave me. I finally got one of the cables and went through the procedure with it this morning. The roof is opening and closing on the button now. Thank you so much. You've saved me a fortune and helped me learn some Audi diy.

Thanks a lot. 
Paul.


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## SwissJetPilot

Hi Paul - Good to hear it all worked out okay. Glad to be of help!


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## abeall11219

Ahhh, so just weeks after my window regulator went, my soft top has decided to give up now as well (it has worked in between the window regulator replacement)

My passenger side flap seems to keep clicking, after it's fully lifted, it's like the motor or sensor or something doesn't realise it's lifted, the roof wouldn't go up or down, so I closed it manually, still wouldn't go up or down, 24 hours later, it went down, but won't come up again , just the arm for the flap keeps clicking.

Is this the same issue everyone has, and will a reset likely fix? Or is it a new motor?


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## lekiwi54

Hi Paul,

Good to hear you got it sorted. There'll be no stopping you now.

Cheers Steve


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## SwissJetPilot

There's no harm in cleaning up the flap servo motors, and it's easy enough to do, so give that a try and see if the problem goes away. Keep in mind you may have to run an adaptation so either get yourself a VCDS or find someone in the Forum that can help you out.


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## abeall11219

Thanks Swiss, any recommendation on a vcds? I'm pretty clued up on how to use it(I hope) but seems they range massively in price, not sure I'm enough of and enthusiast to be spending 200 on a cable and software.

Any guides on cleaning the motors?


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## lekiwi54

@abeall11219, for cleaning the servo motors go to page 9 of this thread.


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## SwissJetPilot

@ *abeall11219* - IMHO the decision to buy a cable has a lot to do with how long you plan to own your TT, or stay with the VW/Audi product line, and how much you're willing to invest of your own time to learn how it works. The Ross-Tech cable for 3-vehicles is about as cheap as you can go for their product line. And it comes with free software updates, their own Forum and they'll reply to your emails if you have specific questions.

In addition, there's this forum which has a large number of VCDS users if you have a question or need help. So for me, it's been a good investment. Plus, it pays for itself by avoiding not having to depend on an Audi service center every time something goes wrong. There's enough things that you can still DIY but you need to know the fault code in order to narrow it down. Without a VCDS it's just a lot of guessing.

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1635097

With regard to price, you might be able to find a used one from a Forum member in the Market Place. If you buy one and then decide not to keep it, you can just as easily put on the Market Place yourself.

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=40

If you really want to get into the nuts and bolts of the Roadster, this post is well worth a read. There's lots of links and downloads which will provide a much broader understanding of what it's all about and how to deal with owning one when things go wrong -

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1813290
.


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## Wookee

Just wanted to say a big thank-you to SwissJetPilot on here for saving my wife a fortune....and teaching an Audi shop something into the bargain 

She had the flap motor problem on both sides and I'm quite handy with a spanner, and have vagcom, but she doesn't have the screwdriver tool in the boot and using a replacement I wasn't happy trying to release the hydraulic pressure so it went off to a garage - Four Rings in Dartford. They are not near to us, but are near to the place she bought it who recommended them. Audi had quoted here £560 and a local VAG specialist £735!!!

Dean at Four Rings said £330 for both, but when she took it there he said only the left one needed replacing and did the job for £235. At my request he gave her the old part back. Hers is a 2010, so this was after Audi had 'sorted' the problem so couldn't be fixed under the recall thingy. By 'sorted' what I think they mean is they changed the part number and fitted the same faulty part. When I took it apart, as per SJP's guide I found all the electronic bits covered in grease. I cleaned them up and kept it for the inevitable....

....1 week later the roof stopped working again. this time it was the right one. We took it back down there and I explained the problem and what I had done about it. I then handed him the refurbed part and he fitted it in about half an hour. When he came back to speak to us he was amazed- he said that there was a lot of Audi knowledge in the garage and they didn't know about this problem and fix- but it answered a lot of questions they had. He didn't charge us, thanked us instead and had already taken a copy of SJP's notes that I had left on the passenger seat '

I've already refurbed the other one I have in readiness for the new one he fitted failing. 8)

If you have the flap sensor problem and aren't confident doing it yourself, give Dean a ring at Four Rings and speak to someone who (now) knows what he's doing.


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## SwissJetPilot

@ *Wookee* - The days of skilled mechanics who actually know and understand what's going on with our cars is long gone. They are not trained to solve problems, they're trained to replace parts.

Glad this worked out for you!


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## perussell

Since I purchased my TT last week I've been following this forum with some interest. Many thanks to Swissjetpilot for some amazing technical support and I will definitely follow your advice concerning opening and closing the roof

my question at this point is very simply this.....

How common is it that the roof fails?

Websites/magazines etc that I used to research the TT roadster all appeared to suggest that it's above average in terms of reliability. Now I'm not so sure......


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## SwissJetPilot

The short answer is it depends. If you have an older one odds are the flap servos may pack up at some point. They seem to be the weakest link in the convertible top system. If you only open/close the top when stationary and not moving, you shouldn't run into any issues.


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## Danjo

Apologies for jumping in, but I'm not sure if I'm starting to develop a problem with my roof? It goes down fine and goes back up just fine too, but when putting it up the windows drop down as they should, but once the roof is fully up they sort of go up a bit, and then down a bit a few times like they can't make up their mind before finally going back up fully. Is this a sign of problems to come?

Thanks in advance for any help.


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## SwissJetPilot

@ Danjo - With the top up, try resetting your windows, that may sort the issue.


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## SwissJetPilot

I'm linking the post below so it stays with the general "Soft Top Help" theme...

*Manual Open/Close Rag Top Operation - *
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1843105


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## Danjo

SwissJetPilot said:


> @ Danjo - With the top up, try resetting your windows, that may sort the issue.


Thank you SJP, I will give that a try.


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## abeall11219

Thanks for the advice Swiss. Took out the motor and gave it a good clean yesterday, but the same thing happens, the motor lifts the flap, then it just starts clicking , as it's trying to still go up despite the flap being lifted. I guess the next step is trying to find if there's any codes that need clearing. Is there a cheap cable on eBay or similar that will work. I'm now planning on fixing the roof, then selling the car as I've taken a job a long way from home and need something a tad more fuel efficient.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *aheall11219* - When you say "_Took out the motor and gave it a good clean..._" do you mean you opened up the flap servo cases and cleared the grease off the contacts as shown in the Servo Flap Motor R&R? If you did, you still have to do the adaptation with a VCDS.

You might try cycling the top open and closed manually, with the motor running. This sometimes works since the computer sees the sensors and switches being cycled properly. By keeping the motor running, you'll prevent getting a low voltage fault since the battery is being charged. If this doesn't work, they you'll have to do the adaptation as described in the write up.

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1786641

As for spending the money on a VCDS cable, if you're not going to stay with the VW/Audi line, then there's not much point. Since you're going to sell your TT, you can either take it in and have the service guys fix the problem or trade it in "as is" and let someone else deal with it.


----------



## abeall11219

SwissJetPilot said:


> @ aheall11219 - When you say "_Took out the motor and gave it a good clean..._" do you mean you opened up the flap servo cases and cleared the grease off the contacts as shown in the Servo Flap Motor R&R? If you did, you still have to do the adaptation with a VCDS.
> 
> You might try cycling the top open and closed manually, with the motor running. This sometimes works since the computer sees the sensors and switches being cycled properly. By keeping the motor running, you'll prevent getting a low voltage fault since the battery is being charged. If this doesn't work, they you'll have to do the adaptation as described in the write up.
> 
> https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1786641
> 
> As for spending the money on a VCDS cable, if you're not going to stay with the VW/Audi line, then there's not much point. Since you're going to sell your TT, you can either take it in and have the service guys fix the problem or trade it in "as is" and let someone else deal with it.


 thanks again swiss! I cleaned the servo cases yes, then cycled roof manually several times to no avail.
I wanted to fix it ideally before selling, I imagine a car with an operational roof should fetch a bit more than one without.

To make matters worse, the engine management light came on this morning on my commute. Joy.

I dont have permission to look at the marketplace section of the forum for some reason, but what im really wanting to know, will I be able to achieve the adaptation withthe lite software and a cheap ebay cable?


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Sounds like you'll definitely need to get the roof adaptation done. Given you now have another issue, it's probably worth just taking it it and letting a service center do it. It sucks to be out of pocket just before you sell, but at least you'll have the receipt to pass on to the next owner so there's no question about the condition of the vehicle.

I can't say one way or another about non Ross-Tech cables/hardware so I can't help you there. Sorry. :?

In this situation, I'd just take it in to the service center, get everything sorted and at least when you sell it, you'll have the receipt and fault code print out (be sure to ask for it) to show everything's good to go.


----------



## abeall11219

SwissJetPilot said:


> Sounds like you'll definitely need to get the roof adaptation done. Given you now have another issue, it's probably worth just taking it it and letting a service center do it. It sucks to be out of pocket just before you sell, but at least you'll have the receipt to pass on to the next owner so there's no question about the condition of the vehicle.
> 
> I can't say one way or another about non Ross-Tech cables/hardware so I can't help you there. Sorry. :?
> 
> In this situation, I'd just take it in to the service center, get everything sorted and at least when you sell it, you'll have the receipt and fault code print out (be sure to ask for it) to show everything's good to go.


Its all fixed now - where the drain hoses had deteriorated, water had leaked onto the electrics causing the Fuel pump control module to fry - sounds worrying!

Also purchased new Servlet motor, fitted, cleared error code - and all works now!


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## cw955

Sod's law, I was reading this thread the other day and thinking "that all sounds complicated" and guess what!:

Address 26: Auto Roof Labels: 8J7-959-255.lbl
Part No: 8J7 959 255 B
Component: 256 VSG TT H13 0110 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 3E792021696C949

1 Fault Found:
03246 - Sensor for Canopy Flap; Left (G596) 
008 - Implausible Signal
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 3
Mileage: 70608 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2018.03.11
Time: 13:59:27

Time to get the spanner out!
I assume the easiest solution is just replacing the Roof Flap Servo Motor and then coding using VCDS?


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## Vf1000r

Hi All,

I have a 2009 TTS and the soft top started playing up last week, sticking in the open position, I managed to get the roof back up and down to my local independent who scanned it and advised it was fault code 295 roof micro switch, he also advised it would cost £625 + vat to replace  (he also suggested an auto electrician would be cheaper).

I've had a look on the forum and can't find a how to guide for this, could anyone point me in the direction ?

Thanks

Ian


----------



## badej

Hi! 
My problem only occurs when it's really hot outside. Soft top opens as expected, but windows don't want to fully close), and yellow light is flashing. I need to manually open and close windows to finish opening procedure (flaps are fully closed at this moment). What should I do?


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *badej* - Get it scanned and find out if there's another issue going on with your windows. Otherwise it's just guessing what's wrong. You might try cycling the top with the ignition on, then reset your windows with the top closed.

@ *Vf1000r* - Switch F295 is located inside the roof leading edge on the right side as shown in the image from SSP-391. If it is defective, then yeah, it will have to be replaced. I suspect (but can not confirm) it's similar to the contact switches in the door lock in which case it may not be an individual item you can replace. It may require the replacement of the entire latching system.

Unfortunately, I've not found anything on replacing any of the switches in the roof in this or other TT forums. You might try to Google search to see what you come up for on how to replace it. If you want to take a shot at it yourself, send me a PM and I can send you the convertible workshop manual.

The other option is to take your roadster to a shop that specializes in roadster roof issues and get a second opinion - I ran a quick search on Google and found these guys -

https://www.caymanautos.co.uk/convertib ... f-repairs/


----------



## aeronaut90

badej said:


> Hi!
> My problem only occurs when it's really hot outside. Soft top opens as expected, but windows don't want to fully close), and yellow light is flashing. I need to manually open and close windows to finish opening procedure (flaps are fully closed at this moment). What should I do?


Yep - mines done exactly the same a handful of times over the last couple of weeks. More of an irritation at the moment but obviously there's a nagging doubt that something more serious is around the corner. I'd not made a connection to the temperature but now things have cooled down we'll see if it makes a difference.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *aeronaut90* & and *badej* - Just to be clear on this, if you hold the roof switch through the entire opening or closing process, the windows don't fully open or close?

According to* SSP391*, there's a slight time-gap between the time the system recognizes the roof is secured (either open or closed) and the final window operation. Read through it and see if yours is operating as described in the procedure described on pages 12-16.


----------



## TTsdsgomg

SwissJetPilot said:


> @ aeronaut90 & and badej - Just to be clear on this, if you hold the roof switch through the entire opening or closing process, the windows don't fully open or close?
> 
> According to SSP391, there's a slight time-gap between the time the system recognizes the roof is secured (either open or closed) and the final window operation. Read through it and see if yours is operating as described in the procedure described on pages 12-16.
> .


SJP you are truly a star, some great information, heated rear screen switching off when roof open is clever, and the attached 'pdf' is invaluable for any roadster owner, we are truly not worthy [smiley=dude.gif]

On a less grovelly note, I have used and can vouch. for Cayman roofs they got me out of trouble when I stupidly put something on the 'parcel-shelf' ... NOT ! and needed some realignment.
I also have experienced the 'hesitant window syndrome', it occurs on last stage of opening,.
1/ all appears fine flaps go down and then the windows return to the closed 'up' position, 
2/ but they hesitate and then go back down to part open and the orange roof light comes on with intermittent beep, 
3/ if you the recycle closing and opening again all is okay. 
This happens intermittently and I haven't notice any temps relation as I open my roof in winter too


----------



## aeronaut90

SwissJetPilot said:


> @ aeronaut90 & and badej - Just to be clear on this, if you hold the roof switch through the entire opening or closing process, the windows don't fully open or close?
> .


Correct SJP. In my case the windows stop half way up or get nearly fully up and then go up and down a couple of inches and then stop, all while the roof switch is being held. Put the roof back down and then up again and they close fully.

Did it once today and then worked fine the next couple of times I lowered the roof.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Might be a dumb question, but are you guys opening/closing the roof with the engine off? If so, it could be a low voltage issue (just guessing here) as mine has done similar things. When the engine is running, I never seem to have problems. Out of habit, I never operate the top with the engine off or while the car is moving.

If the windows function normally with the top up or down, but only act up when operating the roof, then it might be worth getting it scanned to see if there's something else going on.


----------



## aeronaut90

Engine running. Ironically it's been fine today so far


----------



## mcdhibs

Seriously if your having roof opening and closing issues try SJP guide on cleaning the flap motors it's very simple to do and has stopped all of my roof issues

Mike


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Everything I've read about Roadster window hesitation problems seems to be related directly to the convertible top flap servo motors.

If you look carefully at *SSP391*, there's an illustration on Page 29 that shows a signal out of the Convertible Top Operation Control Unit J256, which goes directly to the Convenience System Central Control Unit J393 which drives the door (window regulator motors) control units J386/J387. Proper operation of the windows depends on a good signal from the convertible top opening/closing properly. I believe this is what's causing the problem for those who have cleaned the servos, but not run the Adaptation. And may be why your windows are not functioning properly.

There's also a note on Page 23 that states: _"Note - After repair work on the convertible top covers, convertible top cover senders G596 and G597 (servo flap motors) must be adapted to the convertible top operation control unit J256. This can only be accomplished using a VAS tester and the Guided Fault Finding or Guided Functions option."_

The bottom line here is after cleaning the servo motors, you must run an Adaptation in order to ensure the convertible roof system is working properly. If you've done all this and the windows still hesitate, then it might be worth having a professional shop look into it.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

With regards to the Adaptation issue discussed previously, I wanted to mention VCDS vs. OBD-Eleven type device options currently on the market. While the Ross-Tech VCDS unit is capable of providing Adaptation capabilities, it is a bit pricey for the casual user however it can to any Adaptation, including the Roof Flap Adaptation.

*FAQ - OBDII Scanner Reviews*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=2014603

While the OBDeleven will allow the user to clear faults, it is not capable of performing the Roof Flap Adaptation. From what I have researched, none of the dongle-type devices can perform this Adaptation.


----------



## badej

SwissJetPilot said:


> @ aeronaut90 & and badej - Just to be clear on this, if you hold the roof switch through the entire opening or closing process, the windows don't fully open or close?
> 
> .


That's right. But only when I try to open my roof. My engine is running.


----------



## Daniel145

Having the same trouble with my '10 TT roadster, only when opening the top.
I will try the adaptation suggested here in the next days, did you get the chance to try this fix already?

Thanks.


----------



## chestnutree

SwissJetPilot said:


> *The following DIY is for cleaning the Flap Servo Potentiometers *
> 
> This was 'borrowed' from a French Audi TT website. I took the liberty of auto-translating the information, did a little of my own editing and have uploaded the text and pictures here. Credit given where it's due: http://www.audi-connecttion.com/t7611-t ... 2-roadster
> 
> Further investigation of this topic on other TT sites revealed that excessive grease on the Servo Potentiometer contacts is very common. This may be causing a fault error (implausable signal) during VCDS scans. Unfortunately just replacing it with another Servo may not make the problem go away it the new Servo has the same problem. The only way to know for sure is to open up the Servo case and perform an inspection. If excessive grease is noted on the contacts, then you will have to clean them as described in this post.
> 
> During this procedure, it's a good idea to use a pen to mark the current locations of everything you remove so you can put it all back exactly where it was. The 4-bolts that secure the Flap Assembly to the frame are very important since they not only secure the flap assembly to the frame, but they maintain alignment. (See previous post which discussed alighment).
> 
> *NOTE -* The Servo Flap Motors can be removed without having to remove the Flap Assembly as described in this post. While a bit more challenging, you won't have to worry about Flap Assembly mis-alignment issues. It's a good idea to place a towel around this area so nothing falls into the "abyss" as recovering a lost screw will be more of challenge than R&R of the servo assembly.
> 
> Removal of the Flap Servo Motor without removing the entire Flap Assembly -
> 1. Open the top.
> 2. Disconnect the ball-link from the flap.
> 3. Unscrew the three torx screws holding the Servo Motor in place.
> 4. Disconnect the plug.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Hi everyone, as this is a common problem, I did a little tutorial to save you time and money!
> 
> This "syndrome" side flap sensors is quite common from what I have seen on different forums. Since it's an electronic problem, it is often intermittent and difficult to diagnose.
> 
> The typical symptom is the roof does not want to close. The side flaps rise and then nothing! At the end of the cycle, your windows "hop" instead of going back up in one go.
> 
> The sensor inside the servo motor is only a potentiometer which measures variable resistance. It is connected to the flap by an arm and ball linkage. The value of the resistance varies according to the position of the flap and the computer reads this value to know the position of the flap. If the sensor is dirty, the value will be wrong and the computer will not know the position of the flap and the top fails to operate correctly.
> 
> 1. Start closing the roof. Once the flaps are fully lifted, stop and turn off the ignition.
> 
> 2. The flap assembly is held in place by these 4x-10mm bolts. Be careful they are not very tight, they are short and it is easy for them to fall into the abyss of the hood! (Note - during installation, torque to 5-Nm.)
> 
> 3. Disconnect the blue plug, just a small clip to remove. I advise you to detach the small "leg" to maintain the cable first, you will be more free of your movement. Attention - it is plastic and it's fragile.
> 
> 4. For cleaning, use a clean cloth, rubbing alcohol (or printed circuit cleaner) cotton swab and/or soft brush.
> 
> 5. Un-clip the ball-link from the flap and remove the 3-Torx screws. The servo is now detached, and you can work on it.
> 
> 6. Now open the servo case by releasing the clips. Attention! It's all plastic and fragile. NOTE - It might be a good idea to remove the Audi product label. (A good way to released them without breaking them is to take an old credit card, cut it up into 1/2" strips and use these to wedge into each clip).
> 
> 7. Once the servo case is open, a last obstacle stands in front of us - here on the sensor of the right pane, for the left pane we have no problem the gear is fixed on the other side of the box. We must remove the gear to access the circuit tracks, a small pressure at the point of the arrow, and we gently pull the axis down.
> 
> 8. Here you have perfect access to the circuit tracks and the contacts fixed on the gear. I let you appreciate the state of mine, full of grease. Not surprising that the values are distorted!
> 
> 9. De-grease the contact surfaces until all grease has been removed. Personally, I reused the grease back onto the gears where it was missing.
> 
> 10. Once clean, we reinstall everything. Two small points of attention; (1) Remember to replace the gear so that the rod is in the same position as disassembly (otherwise you could not attach it to the flap). (2) When installing the flap assembly, use the marks left by the washers on the frame support to replace it at its original place. If not correctly installed, it will require realignment.
> 
> 11. After everything is back together, cycle the top open and closed a few times as this should clear any error codes. If that doesn't work, a VCDS scan and reset may be required.
> 
> .


Hi,
I'm back again...&#8230;
This post was started with my 1st TT. Have the same issue on my next one. After "aligning" the flaps early last year and relearning the system, I enjoyed a great summer problem free but the issue is back.

I'm wondering whether anyone has followed this fix and found it to work? Especially with the issue being intermittent. If I reset the roof, it will work for a bit.....
I know I could just give it a go, but I have next week off work which is when I'm planning on doing the work. If I do it, then find it doesn't work, I'm not sure I can get a replacement part in time before I'm back to work. So I'm hoping someone can shed some light and help decide whether to try this, or buy a new motor.

Thanks


----------



## SwissJetPilot

I think it's safe to say the Flap Servo R&R is generally effective for 90% of the roof problems. However as it is a complex system, there are other components that can fail. However, before moving on to something else, run a scan and find out if the flap servos have failed again. Like any electro-mechanical part, they are subject to wear and the electrical traces can become worn or damaged. Running a VCDS scan should tell you which has the problem and by checking the block fields, you can see the actual values.

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1786641

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1829258


----------



## chestnutree

Hi Swiss,

A scan confirms that it's the flap again. Just wondering whether it's worth spending the time doing the degreasing mentioned above or whether I should just buy a replacement flap motor? Not sure how successful the cleaning process has been at resolving the fault for other users.

Nick


----------



## SwissJetPilot

So far I think the success rate is around 100% for those who have tried it. It's really a very simple thing to do, but you have to have a VCDS to do the Adaptation. This would be true if you do the R&R DIY or if you buy a new one. The car has to "learn" the new servo max and min values.

The problem with replacing the servos is you can just as easily end up with another one that's in the same state. Remember our cars (and parts) are getting older every year. These are not "brand new" off the production line replacement parts, more than likely they're already several years old out of the box.


----------



## mcdhibs

It works I did both at the same time it's a very simple mechanism inside

Mike


----------



## chestnutree

Thanks so much both! I certainly know what I will be doing next week. I have VCDS to relearn... I've done it so many times recently just to get the roof going temporarily :lol:

My only other concern is that, although previously it's always come up with the flap error, it's recently been stating an intermittent fault with the canopy switch (or latch) sensor at the same time. I'm just hoping that this has just been thrown up because of all the errors with the flap confusing the system... and there isn't actually a switch sensor problem. Fingers crossed.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

The contact switches in the top are pretty robust, and based on what I've read about roof failures on this and other forums, the odds of them failing is pretty remote. I think once you get the flap servos sorted, the rest will take care of itself.

For a good read on how the top works and the operations that are occurring during the open and close operation, you can download SSP391 *here*.


----------



## chestnutree

Thanks, that's quite an interesting read.

After always wanting to open the roof with the fob, I've now learnt that I can do it with the key in the lock before entering the vehicle which is the next best thing I guess!


----------



## chestnutree

I found some time today to do this. After taking it apart, I can see exactly what you mean! I'm surprised it even worked intermittently as the contacts were completely clogged in grease! I'm pretty confident now that my roof issues are sorted after cleaning both flap motors. Only time will tell, but I'm no longer anxious about it failing again.

A little fiddly, but all in all, an easy and free fix!

Swiss, as it's such a common issue, could you make the guide a sticky or KB article? Rather than people searching for this thread or starting their own, I think it will help many people fix their roof issues.

Happy days, thanks again  (Wish I'd read that part of this thread a loooong time ago!)

Before and after pics:


----------



## SwissJetPilot

See, not so difficult at all, is it!?  

Glad it worked out. Now, just read through how to do the Adaptation with the VCDS and you'll be all set for a top down summer! 8)


----------



## chestnutree

Nope!! Just a little fiddly. I took the whole flap assembly off. I have no idea how anyone can take the motors off without removing the flaps. I couldn't even see the other screw right back behind the roof! Took a little bit of fiddling getting the flaps back into the correct position too but not too difficult.

Also... the tip for having a towel preventing things going into the void came in handy. A nut appeared on it... after some searching... I discovered it had randomly dropped off the pin where the rod arm clips onto the back of the flap! No idea how.

VCDS adaption was a doddle and already done. I've done it more times than I can remember to keep my roof temporarily working recently


----------



## Darbybe

Hi, could you tell us how you solved the problem? 
I have been exactly the same!


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *Darbybe* - the link and instructions for repairing the flap servos can be found here -

*How to: Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Convertible Top Flap Servo R&R*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1786641


----------



## griffster

SwissJetPilot said:


> @ Darbybe - the link and instructions for repairing the flap servos can be found here -
> 
> https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1786641


..too much time on your hands?? - well you sure know how to use it -- stunning 'knowledge notes'


----------



## SwissJetPilot

There's more where that came from. Enjoy! 

*The Ultimate Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Roadster Compendium*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1813258


----------



## SwissJetPilot

_From *allanj104* - I have a mk 2 roadster and the roof has started to go slow going open and close .I believe you can get to the pump which is in the boot ,but does any one know if the hydraulic oil can be topped up or is it sealed thx._
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 9#p9199329

The question is what's "slow"..???

On average, I believe the top opens in about 10-12 seconds and closes in about 12-14. This video will give you an idea of a typical open/close time.






While the hydraulic pump may be suspect, keep in mind it is electrically driven. Therefore the condition of the battery will affect performance. If you have a flat battery (or are opening/closing the roof with the engine off) a low voltage battery will simply not provide as much energy to the hydraulic pump motor, resulting in a slower open/close.

The hydraulic pump is a sealed, maintenance free unit located in the forward section of the trunk (see image). But yes, it can be topped up with VAG Part Number G-004 000 M2; Central Hydraulic Oil. But check with your Audi dealership as this may or may not be available in some areas. To be honest, I haven't seen that many Roadster complaints that have been directly related to a failed pump. Not to say it can't happen, but is one of the least frequently failing parts in the roof system.

However, if you suspect the hydraulics, check both pistons for any leaks. This is easier to do with the top open; simply release the roof flap servo rods to get the flaps up and take a look at the cylinders on both sides. The upper end will be easy enough to see, the lower end will take some effort. You can also remove the hydraulic pump access panel and take a look inside to see if there's any leaks there too. If you do find a leak, it's beyond the scope of my experience and will require a visit to your local Audi service shop for repair.

NOTE - Before you put a screwdriver to the hydraulic pump access panel, use some penetrating oil to loosen up the screws. They're secured into riv-nuts and if they're frozen or rusted, the riv-nuts will spin in the sheet metal and it will be a drama-fest trying to get them sorted.

I highly recommend before you start pulling panels and such, get the car scanned. The best tool for checking for faults in order to understand which component is failing is a VCDS from Ross-Tech. You can either buy one or see if someone near you can run an Auto Scan and see if you have any faults listed. A service shop can run this for you too, but as a Roadster owner, a VCDS will pay for itself after the first couple of times you use it. Plus, if your roof flaps ever fail, you'll need it for the Adaptation.

I've attached some information for you to read that might help shed some light on this issue; SSP391 covers the entire convertible top operation and the workshop excerpt is specific the hydraulic pump service. There's more information in the Knowledge Base (KB) so wander through there too.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Bit more digging on this subject of the Hydraulic Pump and did find an after-market repair kit. I have no experience with it, but am just passing this along in the event you suspect the pump has failed -

_"I have sourced some Power Roof Motor repair kits. These repair kits are not available from main dealers and by using this it will save you a fortune. If your cabriolet roof is not working but you can hear the motor working/spinning then it's going to be the impeller/cog has split and in some cases the spindle has rounded off. My kit contains a new impeller, seal and new screws to fix either problem. (Motor is manufactured by Johnson)

Full step by step instructions are included in kit with zip up clear envelope to use while working on car to keep instructions clean and safe, easy for any DIYer to follow, I have fitted many of these kits, and will answer any fitting questions.

Please note these are genuine Johnson parts with modified impeller. I have been supplying these kits all over the World for the last 9 years resulting in lots of now happy owners." _









https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-TT-ROAD ... 1371644419

Another company that provides replacement parts for the hydraulic pump and motor is Roofmotors in the UK -
https://roofmotors.co.uk/repair-kits-an ... -and-pumps

Roofmotors.co.uk
11 City Way Ind Estate
Off Square Street
Bradford, West Yorkshire BD4 7NP
Telephone 07974 767 332


----------



## griffster

SwissJetPilot said:


> There's more where that came from. Enjoy!
> 
> The Ultimate Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Roadster Compendium -
> 
> https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1813258


...."more where that came from"..................now there's an understatement!!

...speechless.....incredible enthusiasm, energy and ability 

do you come from the same planet as Elon?!


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *griffster* - Thanks! Well, everyone needs a hobby and chasing down information on the Mk2 TT convertible roof is mine! 

Here's some additional information about the convertible top hydraulic pump directly from Customer Service at Webasto Group who is the OEM supplier of the convertible roof to Audi:

_Dear Sir,

The supplier of the Hydraulic Pump was Power Packer (Box 327 - 7570 AH Oldenzaal NL). The creation of the instructions is in responsibility of Audi and is not available to us. Because of that, I think also Power Packer won't be able to provide you with that instruction. Normally the Dealership of Audi must have it!

Kind Regards,

Rudi Welly
Webasto Group_

He was kind enough to send me a link to *SSP-220* which, unfortunately is just for the Mk1 TT, but does have a bit more information about how the pump works than SSP-391 which is specific to the Mk2 Convertible. Only problem is this one's in German, but it's easy enough to find with a Google search.

I will see if I can get in touch with Power Packer and see if they're able to provide any further information and also touch base with my local Audi Service Center since they're pretty good guys.

*EDIT *- I received a very nice phone call from one of the managers at PowerPacker and basically they do not sell repair kits or provide repair instructions. That's all directly through Audi. So we'll have to rely on the workshop instructions and repair kits from Audi Service.

He did caution that any repairs need to be done in an extremely clean environment. Any debris that might get into the pump or hydraulic lines could block one of the cylinders, and there's sufficient power that if one cylinder fails to move (due to blockage) the other could keep going and destroy the roof mechanics due to unequal force applied to one side or the other. Keep in mind that pump is generating 160-bar (2,300 psi) so use caution.

He also stated that the Mk2 pumps were pretty much bullet proof as they have an exceptionally high build quality, so the odds of them failing is very remote. With regards to fluid level, since it's a closed system, it shouldn't require a "top up". If it does, there's a leak which should be serviced.


----------



## muppet1

Hi
I'm new to the forum but would greatly appreciate some help; I have owned my 2007 tt for nearly two years with no problems with the roof. However, yesterday, having not been able to drive the car for 7 weeks, I finally got back on the road and decided to put the roof down - no problems. However, after a short journey, I tried to shut it and it got to within an inch of the locking mechanisms working, then stopped and wouldn't go up or down. Do you think this might just be because the battery hasn't been run for a while and would it be ok to drive it gently around (with all the flashing warnings about the roof not being secured) and try again? Alternatively, do I need to release the hydraulic pressure to manually move the roof this small amount (once I've found the cranks and released the locking mechanism manually)? I ask the second bit because I am unsure that once I have released the hydraulic pressure, will I then have to take the car to have it re-pressured?!
Apologies for being at a bit of a loss, but first time this has happened and Im no mechanic and have no car-friendly guy in my life! Thanks


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## SwissJetPilot

Once you release the hydraulic pressure valve, you can open/close the top all day long to your hearts content. 

Couple of links for your reading pleasure -

All things Mk2 Roadster - 
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1813258

Manually opening the top - 
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1347177


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## muppet1

Do you mean raise and lower it manually??!


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## SwissJetPilot

Yes. See illustration -


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## muppet1

thanks for the links - very helpful. Was hoping that the roof might miraculously cure itself if I gave the car a good run to charge the battery :lol:


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## SwissJetPilot

You can try manually opening/closing the top with the ignition turned to accessory (engine not running). Sometimes that will sort it out.

Best not to raise/lower the top automatically without the engine running as it can cause a low voltage fault (error). A Roadster that's been sitting a while can end up with a slightly low battery, and if you attempt to raise/lower it without the engine running, this can happen.

Best if you use the OEM screwdriver in the tool kit. It's hard to see through the little access slot in the carpet, but there's a rubber grommet on the release valve screw that makes it impossible to get to with a wide blade screw driver.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Couple additional links in an attempt to keep the convertible top problems in one place -

*FAQ - Mk2 Roadster "Soft top cannot be used" Message *

When the convertible top suddenly quits working and the "Soft top cannot be used" message appears in the DIS, the computer has sensed a fault in the convertible system. Once the fault is registered, the computer will lock out the center console switch, and deactivate the automatic mode to protect the roof from a collision between the flaps and roof mechanism. The only thing you can do at this point is manually close the top.

For more information, check out this link -

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1914283

*VCDS code for Convertible Top Locking Motor (V223) not working *

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 9#p9203229

Address 26: Auto Roof Labels: 8J7-959-255.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 8J7 959 255 B
Component and/or Version: 256 VSG TT H14 0110
Software Coding:
Work Shop Code: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 3E792021696C949
1 Fault Found:

01997 - Convertible Top Locking Motor (V223)
011 - Open Circuit
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101011
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 3










*Convertible top not going up - can't get the spline shaft out *

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1900949


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## red23

Have the same issue as faced by a few on here.

Main problem - Roof opens fine but will not close. (need to manually close it)

1) When trying to close i get the flaps open and the "roof cannot used" error.
2) Have checked the hydro pump and refilled with fluid which allows the roof to again open but not close. 
3) I can use the close button to engage the roof locking mechanism

Out of curiosity what makes the pump work again after using the emergency valve to allow me to retract the roof again? Is it when i top it up or when its left for a while?

I put fluid in today and was immediately able to retract the roof, now i have used the emergency valve i cannot retract the roof. Do i wait for it to "re-pressurise" or put more in?


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## SwissJetPilot

@ red23 - I'm surprised you "topped up" the hydraulic since it's a closed system. Would be very interested to know how you did that since it doesn't have an access port to add fluid.

Did you find a leak on one of the pistons, hydraulic lines or at the pump itself?

As with most of the people with soft top issues, I'd guess it's the roof flap servos. Simple DIY to pull the flap servos and clean them as described in the Flap Servo R&R. You'll need a VCDS for the Adaptation. It seems to be a common problem as the Mk2's get older.

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1914283


----------



## red23

SwissJetPilot said:


> @ red23 - I'm surprised you "topped up" the hydraulic since it's a closed system. Would be very interested to know how you did that since it doesn't have an access port to add fluid.
> 
> Did you find a leak on one of the pistons, hydraulic lines or at the pump itself?
> 
> As with most of the people with soft top issues, I'd guess it's the roof flap servos. Simple DIY to pull the flap servos and clean them as described in the Flap Servo R&R. You'll need a VCDS for the Adaptation. It seems to be a common problem as the Mk2's get older.
> 
> https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1914283


Did it via the gold valve (shown above the emergency valve) as shown in the picture at the top of the page, this allowed me to open the roof. No leaks seem to be present.

The problem first occurred when closing the roof, it got half way and would then only retract.

This will be my next step, it goes in to the garage on Friday morning for an ABS fault so will obviously get them to look at this too.


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## SwissJetPilot

Ah, okay. Makes sense.

From what I have learned, the pump is pretty rock solid and I couldn't find much about them needing to be repaired or topped up unless there was a leak. In which case, there was more required than topping up.

Give the Flap Servo R&R a try. See if that doesn't sort it.

Have you run a VCDS scan yet? Would be good to know what faults you have.


----------



## red23

SwissJetPilot said:


> Ah, okay. Makes sense.
> 
> From what I have learned, the pump is pretty rock solid and I couldn't find much about them needing to be repaired or topped up unless there was a leak. In which case, there was more required than topping up.
> 
> Give the Flap Servo R&R a try. See if that doesn't sort it.
> 
> Have you run a VCDS scan yet? Would be good to know what faults you have.


No VCDS software/hardware unfortunately, should have bought one when i got the car 3 years ago but now i'm trying to sell it everything is going wrong with it :lol: :?

So the garage can replicate and see the issue do i just need to wait for the pump to "recharge"? I want to be able to show the roof is able to retract itself as its then the error comes up.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

To be honest, without a VCDS diagnostic, we're just guessing. It could be the pump is giving up during the cycle, but that doesn't really seem likely unless your battery is really low. One of the Hall sensors or contact switches could be defective so it can't properly cycle and close.

Are you operating the top with the engine running?
Have you tried manually opening and closing the top with the ignition on? Sometimes that works and afterwards, you can cycle the top automatically.

Without a VCDS, you're at the mercy of the shop unfortunately.


----------



## red23

SwissJetPilot said:


> To be honest, without a VCDS diagnostic, we're just guessing. It could be the pump is giving up during the cycle, but that doesn't really seem likely unless your battery is really low. One of the Hall sensors or contact switches could be defective so it can't properly cycle and close.
> 
> Are you operating the top with the engine running?
> Have you tried manually opening and closing the top with the ignition on? Sometimes that works and afterwards, you can cycle the top automatically.
> 
> Without a VCDS, you're at the mercy of the shop unfortunately.


Yeah opening with the engine running, not tried manually opening or closing with the ignition on yet so will give that a try!

Before this happened i was considering the battery being an issue, as i have had issues with the spoiler and also abs/traction control warning lights intermittently. (now on permanent although fixed the spoiler)

Got it tested for free at halfords who said it was working at 86%


----------



## SwissJetPilot

A poorly performing battery can cause a lot of issues for a TT. I believe once the voltage drops below 10-volts, the top will not respond and may kick up a fault. I've done this after the car has been sitting in the garage over the winter without being driven or the battery managed with a trickle charger. Charge up the battery, run the engine, and try the top again with the ignition on and perform a manual open/close. If the battery is unable to hold a decent charge, maybe it's time for a new one.


----------



## griffster

this hideous complexity is very off putting - have you seen how a Miata or TVR roof works?! - And they are much quicker!


----------



## SwissJetPilot

To be fair, the early MX-5 soft top was a completely manual top and super easy to operate; release the two levers on the top of the window frame. Tip it back. Done!






But you're right, my Honda S2000 roof was fully automatic and it never failed - ever!

The TT convertible roof flap servo design is the Achilles Heel of convertible top system and IMHO completely unnecessary. Like most things rolling out of German car manufacturers, the convertible top is way over engineered and far more complicated than it needs to be.


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## red23

Ok so its the Servo that's gone, Cost to fix it at an indy is £330


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## SwissJetPilot

_"Cost to fix it at an indy is £330."_

For that money you can R&R the flap servos yourself, buy a VCDS and still be money ahead.

Gendan Automotive Products :: Professional and DIY car diagnostic tools :: EOBD, OBD II, CAN and VAG Code Readers and Scan Tools


----------



## red23

Does anyone know where i can buy a new servo unit?

Have removed it and tried playing around and cleaning it up. Put it back in you can clearly see it work but it still fail to close the roof

On the upside is its very clean.

It took me 5 minutes to take out and was told its a nightmare job.


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## SwissJetPilot

red23 said:


> Does anyone know where i can buy a new unit?


Which "unit" are you referring to? The entire top, roof servos, hydraulic pump...???


----------



## red23

SwissJetPilot said:


> red23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know where i can buy a new unit?
> 
> 
> 
> Which "unit" are you referring to? The entire top, roof servos, hydraulic pump...???
Click to expand...

Roof/Flap Servo, have taken it out as described in the guide.


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## SwissJetPilot

If you removed the flap servos and cleaned them out, they should be fine. However - you have to run an Adaptation with a VCDS* in order to reset the system. This is covered in the instructions -

[smiley=book2.gif] https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1786641

* An OBDeleven Interface Device is NOT capable of performing an Adaptation.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

In response to this post from jimc7 -
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 3#p9228043

_My question is, are there specific measuring blocks for all the position sensing switches that I need to look at as the root cause of the top shut down? If so, I guess that means I'll have to pinpoint the particular switch's measuring block value that's implausible when the problem occurs again. You mentioned in one of your KB articles that the switches are very reliable. So why both faults and which one is the by product?_

@ jimc7 - Hopefully the following information helps 

Here's some additional information, specific to the roof flap data blocks, so when you run a VCDS, you can see the actual measurements and have a better sense of what's going on. In order to see the expected values, just "mouse over" the block data window and a little bubble will appear with values.

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1829258
















With regards to one flap servo failing and then the other later, I've always been of the mind if there's two or more of anything in a system, replace them all at one go. Just like brake pads, wiper blades and tires, this would be true with the roof flaps since they operate as a pair and were probably out of the same parts bin during OEM assembly.

However, while they operate as a pair, they function independently from each other, therefore each can trigger separate faults for either the motor or potentiometer. You'll notice there's two motors (V381/V383) and two spotentiometers (G596/G597). This is why one servo can fail and not the other. In this case, it would depend on the amount of grease on the respective potentiometer and how much this is affecting the voltage signal.

This is why I recommended doing the R&R on both at the same time. Just easier and one less thing to worry about. Plus you don't have to run the Adaptation twice.

Now when you say "I'll have to pinpoint the particular switch's measuring block" I'm assuming you're referring to the potentiometers in the servos and not a contact or hall switches since they would either be recorded as "1" or "0" and not a voltage range like the potentiometers.

Just to help explain things a bit more, In the description of fault _"03246 - Sensor for Canopy Flap; Left (G596)"_ the term "Sensor" is actually referring to the potentiometer inside the servo housing -

Now, as far as I understand the convertible system it's a cascade response to the fault that goes something like this -

1.) When there's too much grease on the contacts, it causes a voltage value that's outside of the expected min/max range or "implausible signal".

2.) Because the value is out of range, the system can no longer determine the position of the flaps.

3.) Since it can't determine the position of the flap, it locks out the center console switch E137 to prevent you from operating the roof and possibly crashing the roof mechanism into the flaps.

The 02000 switch code is referring to E137, not the servos.

If you haven't already, read through *SSP 391* as it goes into a lot of really helpful information about the entire sequence of operations for the entire system. You can also follow the wiring diagram for the entire roof system in workshop manual _Wiring Diagrams & Component Locations - A005TT20021_ which you can download from the KB.


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## Raffe

I've had my roof flap motors replaced with new OEM, parts were £106 each side and 30mins labour by my specialist so all in a bill of £250.

Hopefully this will give me another good few years of problem free usage.


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## SwissJetPilot

@ Raffe - Just to keep things in perspective, you could have R&R'd your own servos and used the £250 towards a new Ross-Tech VCDS. Just sayin'


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## Raffe

I'd rather just replace and then wont have to worry about it again in the time I own the car.


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## SwissJetPilot

_Hi, looking for advice.
I have a 2007 mark 2 and have owned since last year. On purchase there was a problem with the roof operating which was identified as a faulty flap motor, replaced by the dealers and fine since. Today I have dropped the roof successfully but within a few seconds the roof starts to close again but without completely doing so. I have been able to complete the closure using the switch in the car. I am confused about why this may be occurring and wonder if anyone has an idea before I get it looked at.
TIA_

Do you have a fully automatic top or a manual/auto roof? Early 2007's have a grab handle where the latch motor is located -


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## Rogitian

Hi, thanks for your help. It's a fully automatic mechanism.


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## SwissJetPilot

So let me make sure I understand the problem.

When you operate the top, using the center console switch (E137) the following events occur -

1.) Windows drop about 30%
2.) The top opens, goes all the way back and is in the stowed position
2.) Both flaps lower to the fully horizontal position
3.) Both windows go all the way back up

Then, after all these events have occurred, and without touching the console switch, the top tries to raise up and partially close? Is this correct?

Have you had the car scanned for faults lately? (VCDS or OBD-11) Seems weird that the top would try to close itself. Normally I suspect the roof flaps when the convertible top stops working. But I'm wondering if the J256 Convertible Top Operation Control Unit is failing....?

Have a read through *SSP 391*. It might help you understand what's going on and may shed some light on the issue.










Just went out and cycled my top to verify -

*Opening the top* ...(Windows are all the way up to start)
Pull center console switch up
Windows drop about 30%
Top opens and stows
Flaps close to horizontal position
Windows go all the way up

I then open both windows all the way down with the window switches.

*Closing the top*...(Windows are all the way down)
Press center console switch down
Flaps open to vertical position
Top raises and latches
Windows go all the way up


----------



## Rogitian

To answer your questions, all of the above applied yesterday. The roof fully completed the operation then within 10 seconds of the windows raising it started to close again, very weird as you say.
Today however, I tried again and it has failed completely with the dash message that roof operation is not available. I suspect you are right in that the control unit is broken  
It had a full service with no problems in April but I had noticed another intermittent electrical issue with the dash lighting failing to come on when the headlights were in automatic setting. Sounds like I need to get it looked at properly.


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## SwissJetPilot

Okay, you have me stumped on that one! First time I have heard of it. [smiley=bigcry.gif]

A scan is really the only way to know what's going on. If they tell you there's a flap servo fault, see the post about cleaning them up yourself. If you up for the task, it's a pretty simple job. If the roof's not working properly anyway, you might want to open them up and just see how they look inside. Can't do any harm either way.

Afterwards, you will need a VCDS for the Adaptaion to make them work, but as has been noted in the past, just replacing flap servos doesn't always solve the problem if the new ones are just as gunked up as the ones you have. But a good cleaning often sorts the problems 9 times out of 10.

Have you checked the trunk, or other areas of the car, for water leaks? The convertible top control is in the trunk, near the battery, wedged into the foam. Roadsters don't typically have the "water in the boot" problem like Coupes. But it's worth a check for piece of mind.

For a good read about the Roadster, this link will provide you with a lot of good information - https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1813258

You might want to check the VCDS post, there maybe some one near you with a VCDS who's willing to run a scan for a beer.
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 9&t=240247

.


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## Rogitian

I appreciate your help and advice. I intend to get my local independent VAG guys to check it out.


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## jimc7

Thanks swissjetpilot, I had read SSP 391 and I have ElsaWin for manuals and support. I was actually talking about the position switches/hall pick ups when I asked about the measuring blocks, but I need to go into the Ross tech software as you shared in the images. As for replacing the the flap servos as a pair, the right one had been replaced about a year ago by the previous owner, so I only changed the left one since it was also the only one giving me faults. Until my right one faulted recently and I sent that last post that is. But the possibility always exists that the right one could now be seeing intermittent problems caused by the same grease contamination to it's potentiometer. You provided a key piece of info for me though, which was that the 02000 switch implausible signal is referring to the 137 top control switch and not a multitude of switches. However I'm still baffled as to why the switch fault was logged 5 minutes before the right flap servo fault. Does the 137 switch create an 02000 fault if you try and move the top with it when the controller has it disabled for another reason such as a flap position signal problem? I would think that switch fault would come from my attempted operation after it was disabled by the controller. Anyway, it's been working since that one occasion when I got those two faults, and it was flap initialization that restored the top's operation, so when I put the car away for the winter I'm going to remove and open up the right servo and see if its grease contaminated after only a year and a half in service. Not sure why they cake the gears with what looks like lithium grease anyway, lithium is a conductor when it's in a caked or dry form and could electrically bias those wiper tracks easily. We use a wide temperature range grease on the trim actuators in the jets for that reason among others. It's not a conductor if it gets on the position feedback sensors, it doesn't melt in the heat and still viscous at -50 C at altitude so I'll probably change them both over to that stuff. Jim


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *jimc7* - Sorry I can't explain the 5-minute delay in the fault. :?

I had a weird experience with my left flap today; I put the top down and the dash light (K215) didn't go off. I just happened to look over my left shoulder and noticed the flap was still in the vertical position. I got out of the car to see if the ball link had fallen off (I was aligning the flap last weekend) but everything was connected. So I started to close the top, got it to about half way, and then decided to opened it again. The top went all the way back to the stowed position and the flap came down as it should without any DIS errors. No idea what happened or why.

Guess I picked up a Roof Flap Gremlin somewhere! :lol:


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## Graham'sTT

This isn't going to help, BUT...
I watch my neighbour drive away in her MX5 (Mazda Miata) and she simply reaches up, unlatches the roof and casually flings it behind her, job done.
I do appreciate the powered roof in the TT, although I also wonder about the issues and resolution of them that we have, not to mention the cost, and the anxiety of a pending failure which is bound to happen miles from home as the storm approaches.
Having had a Miata in the past Swiss, perhaps you are in a good position to comment?


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *Graham'sTT* - Yep, I agree a manual roof saves a lot of headaches. My old MGA, MGB and Gen 1 Miata all had them. My Honda 2000 had an automatic roof, but no flaps, and like the rest of the car, it was bullet proof!

Given the Audi TT is a premium luxury sports car, Audi probably figured their customers weren't going for a manually operated roof. Although I have never personally seen one, the workshop manual and parts list refer to a manual release handle where the latch motor is located for the early 2006/2007 production models. Guess that was about as far as "manually" operated they were willing to go.

IMHO, the roof system, just like the TT itself, is way over engineered and not nearly as reliable as it should be for the price Audi charges. The fact that something as simple as the roof servo has caused so many problems for so many people is evidence of that. Not to mention all the recalls for everything else.


----------



## Devil_Inside

I found this forum by accident, while researching how to fix the problem with my convertible top, and I was completely amazed by the amount of detailed, quality information I was able to find in this single thread - you guys are awesome! Thank you!

I have a quick follow-up question regarding the servo motors - is this still an ongoing issue even with the latest, revised part number (8J0959311A) ? The reason I ask is because I had this issue with my 2012 TT not too long ago (lets say 12-18 months) and I had both flapper motors replaced by the dealer, under warranty. Fast forward to today and the convertible top is having the same issue, and VCDS is reporting an intermittent implausible signal from both the left and the right sensor... I would have thought that 3 revisions later Audi would have finally figured it out, no?


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Welcome to the forum. If you think this post is great, you should check out this one. 

*FAQ - The Ultimate Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Roadster Compendium*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1813290

It's not so much the design of the roof flap servo per se, but how much grease the manufacturer puts inside. If some bright spark on the assembly line gets a bit too happy with the squirt bottle, the unfortunate owner is destined for trouble. This is why just replacing it doesn't always solve the problem. Audi, and other service shops, simply solve the problem, not the root cause.


----------



## Graham'sTT

Any repairs I have had done by an Audi dealership have come with a 2 year parts and labour warranty.
You may want to approach the dealer that did your flaps last time...


----------



## motornoter

I took SJP's advice when the roof on my 2009 3.2 refused to go back up and found both flap motors bunged up with excess grease. It's an easy fix to clean them out, but best to take a load of pix as well as following the detailed intructions on the forum while taking the motors apart to ensure everything goes back okay.

Unfortunately manually lowering and raising the roof after refitting the motors failed to reset the softtop, so I've taken SJP's advice (this guy's a star) and I'm about to purchase a copy of Ross Tech's VCDS software so I can run the adaption programme to reset the roof. It's been said on this forum countless times that if you're going to keep the car, investing in VCDS software is a sure way to save loads of hassel and in my case the software should pay for itself very quicky.

At under £200 for the basic system, owning a copy seems a no brainer. A local specialist quoted well over that amount to diagnose the problem and get my top working again. Claimed he'd never heard of contaminated poteniometers and explained that just running the adaption programme to reset the roof would be "a waste of money". When pressed, his answer was that he would run a diagnosis test on the roof and probably end up fitting a new pair of flap motors, as in his words: "these b****y things are often the cause of the problem"!!!

And this is what I love about the forum. It allows us to sniff out expensive BS like this and after reading all the informative and very detailed posts covering all aspect of the annoying tantrams the TT roof can throw at us, hands on owners like me probably understand the workings of the TT's softtop far better than a load of so called experts in the trade do!!!


----------



## SwissJetPilot

In this day and age, a Ross Tech VCDS or OBDeleven is a must have for anyone who owns a modern car (built in this century) and doesn't want to get pulled over the table by garages and service centers.

As 'motornoter', and hundreds of other TT owners have experienced first hand, garages and Audi shops are not there to solve problems, they're just there to runs a scan and replace whatever part shows a fault code. All without any understanding of the cause of the problem. And for roof flap servos, they stick us with a ridiculous bill for a problem not actually solved.


----------



## danjcorbett

Hi All,

Long time lurker here, and have been getting lots of great information about my TT from all of you - so a big thanks for that at the start here!

I've posted about this separately in my own post, but Swissjetpilot has asked me to post in one of the collated roof posts that are already on the forum - so here goes!

I ran into a problem with my TT last night - the roof went down normally, and came up most of the way as normal too - however, when it got to the point of the process where the front latches should have locked into the top of the front window, I noticed that the latches weren't "open", and as such, wouldn't hook into their opposite parts and fully close the roof.

Thanks to the fantastic guide that SwissJetPilot has made up, and that others of you have commented on, I was able to get the latches to work manually - with some problems along the way, mostly in relation to:

- The spline shaft removal tool having the screw sheared of (and with the rest of the screw being now located in the splint shaft itself
- Getting the spline shaft out (SJP's suggestion of vice grips worked after a few swear-filled attempts!)
- Using the other end of the spline shaft tool to manually open and close the latches

All of this meant that I had to:

- Remove the trim at the front of the inside of the roof (I don't have a hatch as indicated in some of the guides
- Remove the motor completely by removing three torx screws
- Use the spline tool to open/close the latches

Which worked well - just in time for the rain starting!

As a result of all of this, I have a few questions, some more important than others:

- Now that everything is back together, can I try to put the roof down and back up without any risk? If not, is there anything else that I should do?
- Is this a common fault, or is this indicative of something needing to be replaced? The motor seems to work fine, but I'm not sure why the latches wouldn't have opened - the roof has worked impeccably since I got the car in August last year
- If everything is OK, would you recommend replacing the current spline shaft, which seems to be a bit chewed up at the "bottom" end - I think this has been a result of my work with the vice grips last night, and whomever has been in there before me!

Thanks in advance folks, as I'm a bit worried that I'm in for an expensive repair.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *danjcorbett* - From the sound of what you described, you have an early 2006-2007 Roadster which did not have the "easy access" panel over the latch motor. It would be great to have some pictures of what you went through and also of the damaged spline shaft.

Yes, you can open and close the top manually all day long if the relief valve in the hydraulic pump is left in the open position. And you can manually latch and unlatch the top with the crank arm tool as long as the spline shaft is out of the way. Having said that this won't be easy to do, but is certainly safe to do so.

In a nutshell, your roof flaps have most likely packed up, meaning they need the R&R so they don't register fault but only a fault scan can verify that's the case. Nine times out of ten, the flap servo motors are the main cause of Roadster roof failures but fortunately, they're very easy to sort out. Clearly if you can sort out manually opening the top, you have the skill set to do the R&R on the Rood Flaps Servos. 

As to a diagnostic tool, an inexpensive OBD2 scanner (e.g. OBDeleven) can identify and clear the fault code. Unfortunately you will need a Ross-Tech VCDS to perform the Adaptation since the OBD-dongle companies (OBDeleven, Carista, etc.) don't offer that feature. The second link will describe how to run an Adaptation, it's towards the bottom of the page.

To the spline shaft, yes you can replace it, there's a repair kit with the part numbers available listed in the third post -

*How to: Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Convertible Top Flap Servo R&R*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1786641

*FAQ - Mk2 Roadster Convertible Top Fault Codes & Adaptation*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1829258

*Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Roadster Top Emergency Tool*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1823466


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## danjcorbett

Thanks for the help here SwissJetPilot!

I'll go into a bit more detail with the story so far here then, and see what else I might be able to do to fix things - I'm getting more and more stressed about it by the minute.

I'll mention at this stage that I have a 2008 2.0L TFSI, which doesn't have the "easy access" panel - instead, I have a piece of plastic trim that goes across the entire front of the roof, and which has a round plug in it for accessing the spline shaft:



















As the roof went up, the latches were in the closed position, and didn't open, obviously preventing the roof from closing - to try and sort this, I popped out the round cap in the middle of the roof trim to access the spline shaft, and remove it using the spline shaft removal tool to find that the internal screw had been sheared off:










To get around this, I made use of some vice grips to pull out the spline shaft - this was really tough, and required a few attempts but it did eventually come free. After that, I tried to make use of the other end of the spline shaft removal tool to manually open the roof latches and close them again - despite lots of wiggling, and following the guides, I couldn't get anywhere with this - the collar of the tool simply wouldn't move past the boundary of the plastic trim, meaning I couldn't bypass the motor and get to the servo.

The next step then involved the complete removal of the interior trim from the front of the roof - this involved popping out two trim clips at the extreme ends of the inside of the roof, and also removing six torx screws from the leading edge of the roof - the trim then comes away easily. This then exposed the entire motor and actuator assembly.

Following this, I was then able to remove the motor assembly by undoing three torx bolts - two holding a supporting bracket, and another holding the motor to the roof directly:










Once this was removed, I was able to push the spline tool into the actuator (being careful not to dislodge the springclip holding it in place, and opened and closed the latches securing the roof.

After all of this, I was then able to reattach the motor, and reinsert the spline - you can see the damage to the end of the spline here (including where the screw from the removal tool has sheared off):










After all of this, I was able to get the roof closed for the night, but on trying to put it down this morning, the roof unlatches as it should, but won't go any further, so I'm now really worried that there is a bigger issue.

Does this all still sound like something to do with the flaps, and if so, do you think this is saveable? I'm really starting to get worried that this is going to need a trip to Audi, which I can't really afford.

Thanks in advance for any help here - I really appreciate it.


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## danjcorbett

To add to the above, I've just used my Carista and got the following fault codes:

- 02000 - Switch position
- 01996 - Convertible top lock switch (open)
- 01097 - Convertible top front lock switch
- 03246 - Sensor for folding hood, left

Is this normal, or does something indicate that something major is broken?


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## SwissJetPilot

Great pictures! Yeah, that early "bung hole" access was not one of Audi's better designs. This picture is of mine with the panel removed. It provides much better access to the motor.

As I suspected, fault code 03246 is "Sensor for Canopy Flap; Left (G596)". Or in other words, the computer is getting an implausible signal (implausible meaning not within the range it expected) from the left roof flap servo. Excess grease that migrates from the gears onto the potentiometer inside the servo housing is the culprit as it screws up the electrical signal as you can see from mine shown below. You can ignore the other faults, they will all go away once you get the servos sorted out and run the Adaptation.

What you can do to verify it's just the servo, is to clear the faults and then turn on the ignition (don't start the car) and manually open and then close and latch the top. This will cycle all the switches in the top. Then odds are good you'll just have the 03246 fault.

Unfortunately, until you R&R the servo's as described in the previous posts links and run the Adaptation, you won't be able to operate the top in normal, automatic mode. So just clean up the servos, then get your hands on a Ross-Tech VCDS.

If you want to check the fault codes yourself to see what they mean, you can enter a Google search like this; "Ross-Tech XXXXX" where XXXXX is the fault code. From there you can get to the Ross Tech page and see the fault that's been registered (see image below).


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## danjcorbett

Thanks SJP - so nothing to be _overly_ worried about then?

Your guide on R&Ring the servos is excellent (thank you!), and I really hope I'm able to do this properly!

Any advice on putting the roof down manually when it comes to it? Most of the guides seem to relate to the roof going up (which is understandable!), but I want to make sure that I'm not going to destroy anything when it comes to sorting this! When I do get the roof down, what is the best way of opening the flaps in this situation? Again, really sorry if this has been answered already!


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## SwissJetPilot

No, nothing to worry about. This is a typical problem for Mk2 Roadsters.

As long as your flaps are out of the way, you can manually open/close the top to your heart's content. You'll notice the default position is "up" when the link arm is disengaged which keeps them out of the way when opening and closing.

Be sure to snap the lose end into place so it doesn't get caught in the linkage of the convertible top!

You'll have to sort how how you want to keep the flaps down if you want to go for a drive - Duct tape? 😉

Just an FYI, opening up and cleaning the servos is really a very simple task. Do one, then the other. Don't take them both off at the same time as it's easy to mix up left and right.


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## danjcorbett

Phew. Thanks, I really do appreciate all of your help here! I've ordered all of the various bits and bobs, so I'll get to work when they arrive. I'll just make sure that I'm extra careful when it comes to unlatching and putting down the roof - better safe than sorry.

Haha, not sure I'll be going for any drives soon anyway - hard to class a sprint with the roof down as a "necessary journey" these days!  not a bad time for this to happen though - every cloud...

Thanks so much again, and hope I'll be able to get this sorted!


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## SwissJetPilot

Sounds good! Please report back how it works out. 

Based on the results of your fault scan, odds are good the servo R&R and an Adaptation will sort it and you won't have to worry about the roof failing again in the future.

If you haven't read it already, this post has a ton of information on the Roadster you may find handy -

*The Ultimate Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Roadster Compendium*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1813258

.


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## Chancer

My 2009 Roadster was showing roof not secure even though it was fully open and the flaps closed. The windows were not returning to the closed position when the roof was fully open. Stripping the flap motors as per this thread proved a full cure. I was ready to complete initialisation as I have VCDS but this was not necessary. The job is really straight forward and requires minimal tools.
Thank you for this great information it is much appreciated.


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## SwissJetPilot

*@ jimkamen -*


jimkamen said:


> Hello guys i have a problem with my roof and error 02000 only when i clear the fault roof works fine for some time never stuck open or midway put when i go to open it again it stays closed and error 02000 comes again. Dealer cant find whats wrong even replaced one microswitch but still nothing. Could it be the classic flap servo problems without having their respecting errors pop up? Many thanks!





jimkamen said:


> E137 was not reported. I have gone multiple times to my dealer they only replaced one of the microswitches not sure why not both and now getting only 02000 via OBDeleven. Best course of action would be replacing the other microswitch and both flap servos?


From what you've described, you're only seeing a 02000 fault for a switch which they replaced. Question is which switch did they replace? Can you look at your repair bill and provide the part number?

If you take a look at SSP391, you'll find a diagram of all the switches in the convertible top. There's five in the leading edge; one at the motor, one at each latch (x2)and one in each striker plate (x2). Plus the user Convertible Top Switch in the center console (E137). The others are located in the frame.

I often harp on the roof flaps as the primary cause of roof problems, and for 99% of the issues, this has been the case. I'm not saying you don't have a defective switch, I'm just curious which one was they replaced and why it still hasn't resolved the problem.


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## jimkamen

The only replaced 8j7871443a


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## jimkamen

Also flap servos were replaced in 2012 car is a 2009 tts


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## jimkamen

Also i found one day one of the plastic flap covers broken off could that be a sign of the flaps mulfunctioning? I dont remember breaking it and the flaps work its just the cover that had fallen off and they replaced it.


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## SwissJetPilot

Okay, good. 8J7871443A is the left Striker Plate or "Closing Element". These are located on the top of the windshield frame.

Do you know why he thought it was that one? If you look at the SSP391, you'll notice F295 is listed as "Convertible top lock closed switch (left/right)". So while they may have replaced the left one, the right one could be faulty since they are in series as you can see where I've highlighted the circuit below.

Buuuuut....I'm still not convinced. The Mk1 Roadsters had a history of faulty striker plates because the contact switch inside could get bent or damaged. So without knowing which switch was defective, he just went with this one. ??? The fact the fault it still there means this didn't actually solve the problem.

It is possible that that roof flap can come off since they are a two piece assembly. But they're on there pretty good. You'd have to get under the release tab to remove it normally. Could be whoever serviced it last didn't have it back together properly. Honestly, I have no idea why anyone would take a flap apart since it has nothing to do with a roof failure.

Replacing roof flap servos doesn't always solve the problem since the new ones can also have grease on the contacts. This is why you may want to clean yours and see if that resolves the issue. As long as the VCDS doesn't detect a fault code with the servos, you can clean and install them without having to do an Adaptation. However once you get a fault code, then an Adaptation must be performed. You have nothing to lose doing it, and a DIY is a lot cheaper than another striker plate.

FYI - The OBDeleven is a pretty good fault finding tool. But it doesn't have the capability to perform a Roof Flap Adaptation. At the moment, none of the OBD-dongle readers can. You'll need a Ross Tech VCDS as it's currently the only tool that can do it.


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## jimkamen

So the question is is there something else i can replace that could be the problem except the other latch and both flap servo motors? And what needs to be done by computer after everything is replaced? I wont do it myself fyi ill just tell the mexhanics in case theyre doing something wrong or forgetting a procedure.


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## SwissJetPilot

If you're going to stick with your mechanic, then they'll pretty much do whatever they think is best and charge you for it. I don't know of anyone in the Forum who's convinced a mechanic to clean a servo and run an Adaptation. As you described previously, they're guessing about which switch is faulty, since replacing the Striker Plate didn't solve the problem. Odds are they'll just change the other striker plate. If you mention the roof flaps, they'll probably replace those too. If you're happy to pay them to replace enough parts, they're bound the solve the problem eventually. Good luck!


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## jimkamen

What happens if they replace the flaps and not run adaptation? Should i tell them to do it or the top wont work without adaptation anyway?


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## SwissJetPilot

If they don't know they need to run an Adaption after replacing the roof flap servos, you're at the wrong shop!  It's stated in the workshop manual and TSBs. Hopefully they've read it. If was the same shop that replaced them before, I'd say odds are good they probably know to do it.









*Interesting note in this TSB that may be directly related to the 02000 fault you've experienced - *

_The convertible top is inoperative, generally at the point where the convertible top frame cover flaps on the right and left have fully opened.

Any or all of the following DTCs may be stored:
• DTC 02000 (Switch Position Incorrect Signal)
• DTC 03246 (Left Top Flap Sensor G596-Incorrect Signal)
• DTC 03247 (Right Top Flap Sensor G597-Incorrect Signal)_

Given the service shop attempted to make the repair of the Striker Plate which didn't sort this out, you may want to print out these TSBs and discuss it with them further. Especially since this was a well known problem.

View attachment CONVERTIBLE TOP - Flap Servo Motor2.pdf

View attachment CONVERTIBLE TOP - Convertible Top Inoperative.pdf


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## chriscapon

So. I have a problem where I can open my roof and take it down, but it will not go back up electronically. The flaps work no problem but it will not go back up. I hear some sort of mechanical noise after the flaps open, as if it is trying, and then get the soft top can not be used message.

As I say. This happened a couple of days ago, so put it up manually. Today decided to try it again to see if it had 'reset itself' and went down no issues. Just will not go up. Any ideas guys?


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## SwissJetPilot

@ *chriscapon* -

You have just arrived at the Audi TT Mk2 Roadster cross roads. It's that intersection where all Roadster owners end up when the top quits working properly.

*Bottom line - without a scan tool, it's impossible to know exactly what's wrong.*

But there are choices -

• Buy an inexpensive OBD-dongle and run a scan to verify the fault (keep in mind these devices can't run the Adaptation).

• Buy a more expensive Ross Tech VCDS HEX-V2. This will allow you to run a scan and if it's the Roof Flap Servo, you'll not only be able to clear the fault, but you can run the Adaptation too.

• If DIY isn't your cup of tea, just take it into a service shop that knows that they're doing and let them sort it out for you.


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## chriscapon

My OBD scanner came up with 03247 with sensor for right folding hood


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## SwissJetPilot

The following is from the 2008 Audi Roof Flap TSB. You can download the PDF a few posts back from this one.

_The convertible top is inoperative, generally at the point where the convertible top frame cover flaps on the right and left have fully opened. Any or all of the following DTCs may be stored:

• DTC 02000 (Switch Position Incorrect Signal)
• DTC 03246 (Left Top Flap Sensor G596-Incorrect Signal)
• DTC 03247 (Right Top Flap Sensor G597-Incorrect Signal)_

Fortunately the solution is relatively simple; remove and clean the grease out of both servos. Then get ahold of a VCDS to run the roof Adaptation. You can either DIY or take it into a service center who will most likely replace the servo. For about what they will charge you for parts & labor for this service, you could buy yourself a Ross Tech VCDS. It's a bit of a coin toss at this point.

*FAQ - Mk2 Roadster Convertible Top Fault Codes & Adaptation*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1829258


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## chriscapon

That's great. Glad to hear it's not a massive job. I am off work next week so I will put some time to cleaning out the servos. I don't suppose anyone knows someone in the manchester area with VCDS who would be happy to help me out with the reprogramming?


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## SwissJetPilot

Check through this sticky and see if there's someone near by that can help -

*VAGCOM/VCDS users*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 9&t=240247

.


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## chriscapon

Your help and knowledge has been invaluable, Swiss. Thank you so much


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## SwissJetPilot

Quite welcome!


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## chriscapon

Quick question regarding VCDS. I've found a cable but comes with no software. It's a genuine Ross-Tech HEX cable. I need to see how many VINs it has left, but could I just download VCDS from Ross-Tech and use the cable no issues?


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## SwissJetPilot

I believe as soon as you plug the cable and connector into your laptop, and you're online, it will attempt to do so automatically and upload the latest software version.

*FAQ - VCDS Open Box Revie*w
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1928927

One other note on used VCDS hardware so you're aware of their policy -

*FAQ - Ross-Tech's Transfer Policy for Second Hand VCDS*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1857197

.


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## jimkamen

is it normal for the alarm not to work when there is a roof fault?


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## SwissJetPilot

When my top threw a fault, I could still open/close it manually and lock/set the alarm. If the alarm is not setting, you may want to run OBD fault scan see what comes up.


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## jimkamen

no fault of alarm but it says roof not secure so maybe it thinks its partly open who knows...


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## SwissJetPilot

@ *jimkamen* - Please follow this link and read through Section 8 -

*The Ultimate Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Roadster Compendium*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1813258


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## jimkamen

doesn't say anything about the alarm not arming though so ill take it in for the flap servo and hope it is fixed. could the battery also be my problem even if it turns the engine on fine?


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## SwissJetPilot

As mentioned before, without a fault scan and knowing the fault codes that are coming up, it's all guess work. If the engine is turning over, then yeah, battery is probably okay.

Please let us know what the Service Center comes up with for a repair. Be sure to ask for a print out of the OBD scan before and after to verify their work. There's no reason why they shouldn't provide it to you as part of the service.


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## jimkamen

the only fault from obd11 is 02000 ok i will thank you!


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## Omil

Thank you so very much Swiss. Worked a treat on my 2008 8J. Couldn't believe how much grease was on the potentiometer track  amazing it ever worked at all.
Thank you for sharing your expertise. It is much appreciated.


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## SwissJetPilot

Super! Glad it worked out! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## Davel94

Hi All
I'm just reading through all this as surprise surprise another 2008 TT with roof issues!
Someone actually came to test drive the car looking to buy it, except came back saying the roof won't go back up. Didn't go much More than we tried to raise it up and down a few times then it stopped. 
Had different garages / auto electricians say anything from the hydraulic pump is faulty, the repeated use and burnt out the pump / motor with no consistent answers yet. 
obviously I don't know for sure what happened in the test drive. 
All I know is when the roof was down the flaps would open but then no movement of the roof. I have manually managed to raise the roof only to find the previous owner has lost the roof tool and got it snapped off. Managed to remove the gear but then put it back in for the motor to operate the lock so I was able to secure the lock. Problem 1 solved as it's due to rain tomorrow!
After the flaps open there is no noise at all from the roof motor. 
With someone else hoping to buy the car in the weekend here I am in a rush haha!
Do you think it's likely to just be a re-alignment / relearn and it's never been temperamental for me in the last 2 years. Or bite the bullet and clean the flap servos and then relearn? 
Obviously a quick relearn at a garage and it works is ideal. 
Would you expect to hear anything after the flaps opened? Certainly sounds like no action in the motor.

Or likely to be worse again and I'm looking at the hydraulic or motor system?

Presuming I would have to manually lower the roof to relearn ?

Thanks!
Dave [smiley=bomb.gif]


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## SwissJetPilot

_
(A) Do you think it's likely to just be a re-alignment/relearn and it's never been temperamental for me in the last 2 years. 
(B) Or bite the bullet and clean the flap servos and then relearn? 
(C) Obviously a quick relearn at a garage and it works is ideal. 
(D) Would you expect to hear anything after the flaps opened? Certainly sounds like no action in the motor. 
(E) Or likely to be worse again and I'm looking at the hydraulic or motor system?
_

The answer is (B) and if you don't have a VCDS to run the Adaptation, then plan on (C) as well. 

*How to: Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Convertible Top Flap Servo R&R*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1786641


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## Davel94

Thanks Swiss!
My only thought was everyone here seems to be able to put the roof down on the button but nit out it back up. Where as mine doesn't do anything either way. 
Do you think the car is stopping both ways working until it's reset?
I'll do the R&R tonight!


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## SwissJetPilot

Generally, from the various complaints over the years, the same problem of roof malfunction can manifest itself in slightly different ways; sometimes the top won't quite close, sometimes it won't fully open.

The hydraulic pump will disengage itself (read SSP391) but a failed pump is not very likely. Of all the roof issues, 99% have been flap servo related.

I've actually had a situation with my top where one flap didn't close after the top was opened. It went all the way into the stowage, the right flap dropped but the left one stayed up. So I just closed the top and opened it again and the problem went away. No faults came up either. Weird. :?

Unfortunately, without an OBD scan, there's no way to know exactly what's wrong.


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## chriscapon

So my right flap sensor isn't working, which leads me to think it is build up of grease on the sensor. I just got a quote from a soft top specialist in Cheshire and they quoted me £325 to replace the part and get it working again. 
Now. I am not very hands on with electrics and fixing things, but thinking that I can buy a VCDS cable from RossTech for £225 and doing it myself saves me money, gets me a cable and in the long run I can service the left hand motor too so that doesn't fail on me too. How easy is the fix? As I say, I am not very hands on and I just want to know how easy it is for it to go wrong?


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## SwissJetPilot

@ *chriscapon* - If you can unscrew four 10mm bolts, three T20 Torx screws, have an old library card laying around and know which end of a cotton swab the cotton's on - then you're already half way to being done. Check out the Servo R&R link four posts above and see if you're up for the challenge.

I'll grant you the Ross Tech software does have a bit of learning curve and is somewhat intimidating at first. And it's true; if you don't click the right boxes and accidentally enter the wrong long codes by mistake, it can permanently transform the Mk2 Roadster into a 1990 Yugo cabrio. 😉

If auto repairs and coding isn't your thing (and for many people it's not) and you don't think you'll ever use a Ross-Tech cable ever again for code changes, fault scans, etc., then you may want to just do the Servo R&R yourself and ask the shop if they will perform the Adaptation for you. At least that way, you'll know the servo's are grease free. Which will not be the case if the Shop puts new ones in as they could be just as greasy and still fail later.

Seriously though, I don't think anyone who's done this has complained that it was mechanically and/or technically too difficult. Only you know your limits so only you can make that decision. All the information you need to do this job is here. Your call.


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## chriscapon

That's great. Thank you for that, it has given me the confidence to give it a go. My worry was also getting it fixed for £325 and then six months later the left flap doing the same. I'll let you know how I get on!


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## SwissJetPilot

You can always look through the list of Forum VCDS owners, and see if there's anyone near you, give them a shout and see if they'll help walk you through it.


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## jimkamen

i cleared the 02000 fault with obd11 but light on dash was still flashing and roof didn't work car went to service and now they're telling me they have a fault code 00380 could this be because i cleared the fault? first time they've seen this fault on my car


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## SwissJetPilot

@ *jimkamen* - Okay, 00380 and J608 are new to me! Let me get out my VAG secret decoder ring and see what comes up -

EDIT - I went through the workshop wiring schematic and nothing came up for J608. However after some on-line searches in other Forums, this fault can come from different modules (Addresses).

For proper analysis of a fault scan, we need three pieces of information; Module/Address, Fault Code, Error Code -

*Address 19*: CAN Gateway (J533) Labels: 7N0-907-530-V2.clb ---> This is the Module or Address
*00380* - Special Vehicle Control Module (J608) ---> This is the Fault code
*004 - No Signal/Communication* ---> This is the Error code

UPDATE - I just sent you a PM.


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## chriscapon

All fixed. Cleaned and serviced the servos and sensors myself and got someone in the NW to code it for me. A couple of hours and £30 very well spent. Thank you everyone for your help. Now, where has this sun gone!!


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## SwissJetPilot

@ *chriscapon* - Well done! [smiley=thumbsup.gif] So, on a scale of 1 to 10 how hard was it really?


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## chriscapon

No higher than a 2 really! Very happy


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## iborg

Will VagCom light do the top adaptation?


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## SwissJetPilot

That's a good question. Unfortunately I don't know, but you can send an email to Ross Tech and ask -

<[email protected]>


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## iborg

Here's the response from Ross Tech

On a 2012? No. VCDS-Lite coverage stops with most models around 2004/2005. The 2012 Audi TTS uses CAN communications for diagnostic purposes which are not supported by VCDS-Lite. You need one of our current VCDS products. My suggestions is the HEX-V2 Limited to 3 VINs and costs $199, our lowest price offer that is compatible with your Audi.


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## SwissJetPilot

Good to know. Yeah, it's a conundrum for Roadster owners. If you did the Flap Servo R&R yourself, you'd either pay a shop for an hour's labor to run the Adaptation (figure $125/hour) or you pony up for a VCDS.

On the other hand it you do the Flap Servo R&R BEFORE it needs it, then you're money ahead!

Something about an ounce of prevention.


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## iborg

So if I do the servo R and D before it totally goes out VAG Com may not be required? That would be very helpful.


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## SwissJetPilot

Yep, exactly! It's never too early to open them up and give them a good clean.

If you wait until the top starts to act up, and the Controller registers a fault against the servos, then you''re pretty much stuck and will need to run the Adaptation.


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## iborg

My TT is at 69K miles. The top had gotten buggy. On more than one occasion it would not function but after driving half a mile it would. I used the directions that Swiss Fighter posted. After a couple of false starts with the left side being assembled wrong, I put everything back together.

I crossed my fingers and said nice things to my car.

Roof works flawlessly....

THANKS for the help!


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## SwissJetPilot

Well done! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

As a note to anyone else who's going to do this, you may want to just remove, clean and replace one at a time. This just avoids mixing them up since they are interchangeable.


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## JohnnyFarmer

Flap motor adaptation - with Kufatec Convertible Convenience Module - for anyone who has this module installed & needs to do a flap motor R&R with adaptation.

For some time I've unsucessfully tried to complete flap motor adaptation - at first trial the flaps wouid rise 1-2mm but stop and fail to complete what everyone else described to be the full adaptation process with roof closing in stages then completing the output test. Nonetheless the roof appeared to work so I left things be.

A few week ago I suspected that this was likely due to the Kufatec Cabrio Convenience module I installed a couple of years ago which means that you can open/close the top with one touch (rather than hold it down) of the normal switch on the centre console. Or more importantly with three rapid pushes of lock or unlock of the key fob.

Today I dug out the cabrio convenience module manual and followed the instructions to switch off the module this enabled 'normal' flap motor initialisation for the first time.

The instructions are below to activate each feature if the module - to inactivate the features you simply repeat the mirror switch movement to toggle between active/inactive for each of the features.

With all features inactive I was able to perform a standard flap motor adaptation - then re-activate the feature.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Would it be possible to just unplug the Kufatec CCM, run the Flap Servo Adaptation and then just plug the module it in again?


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## JohnnyFarmer

Agreed - but installation means some re-pinning. Inability to run the initialise flap adaptation was slowly begining to bug me more and more. Don't know how many have the convenience module installed - I was v pleased with it. Appears to be installed between cabin switch & OEM auto roof module - also wired to CAN I guess to get the key fob lock signal.


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## SwissJetPilot

@ JohnnyFarmer - Question for you; you state "initialize the flaps". Is this different than "Adaptation"?


----------



## Glenis

Top goes down but does not go up,have had a mate put on his code reader and he said no codes !


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## SwissJetPilot

Are you using a generic OBD-dongle? Many of the generic OBD readers may not pick up VAG codes, especially fault codes that originate from the J256 Convertible Top Operation Control Unit. The Ross Tech VCDS and OBDeleven are specifically designed for reading VAG fault codes.

*VCDS Module 26-Auto Roof*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1910631


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## Glenis

Thanks Swissjet my husband has read a lot of your postings and he says you are the dogs bollox of TTs can you please come over to England and take the place of Boris.


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## SwissJetPilot

Seriously? "..._the dogs bollox of TTs_..." Not sure if I'm being insulted or complimented with that one....

...checks British Urban Dictionary...

_From Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English
be the dog's bollocks
British English informal a very rude expression used to say that something is very good_

Well, thank you. Thanks very much! 

I bet you didn't know Borris had a Mk2 Roadster. Hopefully he doesn't have me over to fix his roof flaps...again! :lol:


----------



## iborg

I may have to sell mine now.....


----------



## SwissJetPilot




----------



## Jeabed

Hi, I need to buy a convertible top lock motor (V223). Would anyone have the part number?

Thanks
Audi TT 3.2 2008 Quattro


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## SwissJetPilot

According to 7Zap, the part number is 8J7 898 410. There seems to be plenty of them on eBay, but you may want to check with Audi for pricing as they are often close to eBay prices and you'll know you're getting a new part with a warranty.

https://audi.7zap.com/en/rdw/audi+tt+tt ... 71010/#11A


----------



## Jeabed

SwissJetPilot said:


> According to 7Zap, the part number is 8J7 898 410. There seems to be plenty of them on eBay, but you may want to check with Audi for pricing as they are often close to eBay prices and you'll know you're getting a new part with a warranty.
> 
> https://audi.7zap.com/en/rdw/audi+tt+tt ... 71010/#11A
> 
> View attachment 2
> 
> View attachment 1


Thanks for your incredible knowledge and quick response!


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## SwissJetPilot

@ *Jeabed* - No worries. It's just a matter of knowing where to look for the information. 

I should have asked how you know the motor is toast? I haven't read many reports of them failing so I'm curious why yours has died. These motors generally have a pretty low duty cycle (they're not used that often) so for one to fail is a bit of a surprise.


----------



## King0fgames

Hi everyone o/

I'm looking to buy a TT, and I've found two potential ones - one is a 2011 roadster and the other a 2008 coupe.

The roadster is apparently in great condition except when putting the top back up, it pauses a few times and needs the switch to be released and reactivated each time. It goes down fine though, and still latches when up.

The error code it's throwing is 01092 - Switch for Stowed Canopy (F171).
I've tried searching for the last few hours and can't find any mention of anyone else encountering this issue and/or how to fix it, although the error code guide mentions it. A part search has been extremely inconsistent and I haven't found any official audi part aside from replacing the entire wire harness, and 3rd party results is a single listing for a hall sensor.

If anyone could offer some insight, would be fantastic help towards deciding whether to purchase it or not. It's at a great price so I don't mind doing the repair & buying parts, just need to know what I'll be getting into.


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## SwissJetPilot

*UPDATE* - This post covers the F171 repair but not as a DIY. Click *here*.

F171 is not available from Audi as an individual part as it's part of the entire convertible top assembly. When you run a fault scan, look for *01092 - Convertible top Stowed Switch (F171).*


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## King0fgames

Thanks for the link, I read through the SSP391 but it didn't give much info on F171, the picture (from what I assume is the workshop manual) is already a huge help.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audi-TT-8J-Cab ... SwQN5acz8D
This is the part I found online, and from the convertible wiring harness it appears I would just need to snip and solder or connect the two cables back to the rest of the harness. I just wasn't sure because there aren't any videos or closeup pictures I could find on Google.

I'll read through the workshop manual though


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Sorry I can't provide much more help but I'm not aware of anyone in the forum who's replaced one. I ran a quick search and not much came up, and nothing on anyone replacing it. If you do, it would be great if you could post your work as it would make a great addition to the Roadster repair information. Good luck!


----------



## King0fgames

Definitely! I had the same search results and that's why I was so stumped, none of the resources on this forum are available without an account and don't show up on Google - especially not the work manuals.

Bookmark 35 in the 2.2 download link from https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1833829 has the wiring diagram with the most detailed info for F171 (mentioning for search results) wiring.

If I do get the car I'll attempt to fix it and post my findings, but it's still up in the air because I've yet to see it in person (thursday, soon) and it has no other records from the past 9 years.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Audi seems to have figured out they're not the only game in town when it comes to parts sales, so their prices are sometimes actually less than resellers. IMHO it's always worth asking before you go with eBay.


----------



## King0fgames

Well it looks like I won't be buying the car, apparently it was burned down & declared total loss in another state, repaired & repainted, then rear ended and repaired/repainted again - all without maintenance records. Thanks for the help looking for info though!


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Wow...you ducked that bullet!  On the up side, you know what to look for next time!


----------



## Jeabed

SwissJetPilot said:


> @ *Jeabed* - No worries. It's just a matter of knowing where to look for the information.
> 
> I should have asked how you know the motor is toast? I haven't read many reports of them failing so I'm curious why yours has died. These motors generally have a pretty low duty cycle (they're not used that often) so for one to fail is a bit of a surprise.


I bought the TT used with the motor missing, the vendor said he took it off to test it and that it was working.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Be sure you get the Torx screw that holds it in place. There's also a bracket that supports it which includes two screws. Unfortunately the bracket is not available from Audi so if you're looking for one you'll have to get it from eBay or other non-Audi source.

When my top failed some years ago, the boffins at the Italian Audi Service shop failed to install the bracket and it's been missing ever since. At the time, I didn't know it was supposed to be there, so I've been trying to find one myself.

In this first picture you can see what it looks like without the bracket. Note the single Torx screw that holds it in place. It will still work this way, mine's been trouble free without the bracket for years.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

_


stingraymk2 said:



helping a mate today whose roof got half way up, and then refused to move either up or down
Car is similar to mine...a few months between them on 08 plates, but I have never had a problem with mine.
Followed the instructions on here and manually got the roof back up, and pulled the spline out of the roof latch motor (needed a Good pull).
Problem then arose as could not get the other end of the tool to go back into the hole to manually operate the roof latches. 
It would only go partially in, which the instructions say is no good. 
The instructions then say to use the Torx screwdriver to loosen the motor and move it a bit. Problem is that his car has a little round plug covering the motor (same on the RAC video) whereas the instructions show a large panel being removed that gives you access to the motor. With the little plug removed I couldn't see anywhere to put the Torx so at this stage we had to give up. Thankfully his car is at home so could be moved into the garage.

So any ideas how to access the motor if it needs realigning to get the tool in please? Thx

Click to expand...

_@ *stingraymk2* - If the top is still open, you can try to press on the roof catches while trying to fully seat the Crank Arm Tool (CAT). Obviously this is a lot easier with two people. By moving the catches (either open or closed), it will rotate the Actuator Spline and should align it with the Motor Gear Spline. This should solve your problem if it's an issue of Rotational Misalignment as shown in the lower right corner of the illustration.

The problem with Axial Misalignment can happen if you're missing the U-bracket and two screws which helps hold the motor in place. This was the case with my roof motor, the Audi dealership that attempted to repair it removed this bracket and never replaced it. Which is why I suspect Rotational misalignment is more likely in your case.

Don't press to hard or try to force the CAT into position, when the two internal splines are aligned, it will go right in without much resistance. I've included these pictures of the front and back of the roof mechanism assembly so you can see how it's all connected to get a better idea of how this all works.

Be sure the CAT is fully seated before attempting to rotate the CAT so it has passed completely through the motor spline and is engaged with the actuator spline. I will take a little force to rotate it, but you shouldn't have over do it.


----------



## stingraymk2

Many thanks...will give it a go tomorrow and let you know how I go


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## stingraymk2

Hey I managed to manually lock the roof using the tool from the boot

However now I can't get the tool put...no matter how hard I pull downwards I can't get the special tool out !!


----------



## SwissJetPilot

In this diagram, I've illustrated the two thru-splines; the red latch spline on top and green motor gear spline below. When the spline shaft is in position #1, both splines are aligned and turn together when the motor is operated.

1 - The spline shaft is in position and connects both the latch and motor gear splines. When the motor gear is operated, the spline shaft transfers motion to the latch spline either latching or unlatching the top. Here you see the CAT is about to be connected to the spline shaft so it can be removed.

2 - The CAT is screwed into the end of the spline shaft until seated.

3 - The spline shaft is pulled straight out - DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ROTATE IT - or you will snap off the end of the CAT.









4 - With the spline shaft removed, flip the CAT over and insert the spline-end of the CAT all they way in, passing all the way through the motor gear spline.

5 - The shoulder of the CAT is now against the motor gear spline so it's only engaged with the latch spline.

6 - Rotate the CAT to latch or unlatch the top.









In your current situation, position #6, the CAT is fully seated and can't be removed because the two internal splines are no longer in alignment (axial rotational misalignment as shown in the previous post). This can happen when you rotated the latch spline in order the latch the top shut. It's not uncommon and is one of the design flaws with this arrangement.

With the CAT fully seated, rotate it just enough to slightly unlatch the top until it realigns the latch spline with the motor gear spline. Once that'd done, you can remove the CAT.

This is a real PITA so you'll have to be patient; turn and unlatch just slightly, then try to pull the CAT free. Turn to unlatch again slightly, then try to pull the CAT free. Don't try to force pulling the CAT free or you'll snap off the end of the CAT. Once both splines are correctly aligned, the CAT will come out as easily as it went in.

Keep in mind it is impossible to turn the motor spline because it is the center of a gear which is driven by a worm gear at the motor. Any attempt to rotate the motor spline will result in breaking off the end of the CAT. Which is why you can only turn the latch actuator in order to realign them.


----------



## stingraymk2

Thanks so much for that last bit of advice. My mate tells me that the tool came out after rotating the locks slightly, and the motor spline went back in fine.
Using the screwdriver through the hole in the boot carpet, he then turned the screw clockwise, hoping that would re-engage the hydraulic roof. Pressing the roof button (to lower roof) the locks disengage the the pump makes a noise, but the roof doesnt move. He then tried turning the screw anti-clockwise back to the point where the roof could be manually moved, then turned the screw back (clockwise) and tried again. Again it made the noises you expect to lower the roof, but it didnt move. So he closed the roof again (oddly he said it looked like the roof mechanism actually pushed the roof closed, but not sure if that was actually the locks pulling the roof shut. Shame i cant get there to take a look today.
He did plug in VCDS which had 3 errors, but after clearing them, and trying the roof again it didnt report any errors. Does he need to hold the retract button for longer for the hydraulics to build up some pressure as I think as soon as it didnt work, he let go of the roof button?


----------



## SwissJetPilot

The screw in the boot only opens or closes the hydraulic valve by-pass as shown as (5) circled in red below. It has to be open in order to open/close the top manually and it has to be closed in order to run it automatically.

For more information on the Roadster top, follow this link and under Section 9 down-load SSP 391 -

*FAQ - Audi TT (8J) Workshop Manuals & Self Study Programs*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1833829

The roof is currently disabled because you have at least one fault code related to the top which has locked out the switch and prevents the top from working. This is why you need to clear the faults and run the Adaptation.

Can you post the errors? It would be good to verify what's been reported so you'll know what to do. You don't need to post the entire Auto Scan, just the Address and the Fault Codes under the relevant Address. Odds are good you have one or more at Address 26 Auto Roof.

Without knowing what the fault codes are, odds are good one or more of them is related to the roof flaps. Read through this post to see what's required -

*How to: Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Convertible Top Flap Servo R&R*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1786641


----------



## stingraymk2

SJP....here are the error codes, though note that after clearing the codes and re-running a scan he says there are no errors showing (but not sure if he tried the roof or not between clearing codes and re-running the scan)
First scan
3 Faults Found:
02000 - Switch Position 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 3
Mileage: 124261 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2020.11.22
Time: 14:23:41

01996 - Convertible Top Lock Switch (F294); Open 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 3
Mileage: 124261 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2020.11.29
Time: 10:31:44

01097 - Switch for Front Canopy Latch (F172) 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 3
Mileage: 124261 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2020.11.28
Time: 15:27:28


----------



## stingraymk2

Dont know if relevant, but when i saw the car last week, with the roof down and the right flap open, there was a pool of water in a square/rectangle shaped plastic tray which i think leads to a drain pipe. Hard to get at the pipe due to the roof mechanism but guessing something is blocked. Whether or not that would have caused the roof to fail I dont know.


----------



## Jezzie

SwissJetPilot said:


> In this diagram, I've illustrated the two internal splines on the left; the latch spline on top and motor gear spline below. When the spline shaft is in p osition #1, both splines are aligned and turn together when the motor is ... <snip>


What a fabulously detailed answer!


----------



## SwissJetPilot

A blocked drain is never good as water will spill over the tray and into the carpeting. Water can also make it's way inside the center bulkhead which can also cause problems with wiring and connections for the low pressure fuel pump. You'll want clear any blockage in the drains.

*How to: Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Roadster Drain Hose Access*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1831981

If you have to leave the Roadster outside (no garage) you may want to look into a half cover to at least protect the top and keep water and debris from becoming a problem over the winter months -

*Audi TT Mk2 Roadster Half-Cover*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 4#p8924234

So let's see what these faults are pointing to. We'll need to reference the diagram from SSP391 to see exactly where they are located and then further through the SSP for the detailed photos -

The 02000 fault code is a bit vague, however in this case it's for *E137* the switch located in the center console that operates the top. This is locked out by the CANBUS when a roof fault comes up. If for no other reason, to prevent damage between the top and roof flaps in the event it doesn't "know" the position of the flaps.
02000 - Switch Position
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

*F294* is the switch located on the back of the motor latch assembly -
01996 - Convertible Top Lock Switch (F294); Open
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

*F172* is the top front latch -
01097 - Switch for Front Canopy Latch (F172)
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

E137 gets locked out by default any time there's a roof fault code listed, so that's normal. The two contact switches (F294 & F172) can fail, but rarely both at the same time so I don't think they're actually the problem in this case. It's possible the roof flaps are actually the problem, but are not out of tolerance enough to trigger a fault code. For a better image of these switches, take a look at page 10 of this post -
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 3#p9346593

Try this as is sometimes helps; manually open/close the top, but this time, do it with the ignition on so all the switches are triggered as they go through the complete open-close cycle. Be sure to disconnect and secure the linkage arms for the roof flaps and just leave them up for both open/close cycles.

1 - Turn on the ignition to the first position (don't start the car)
2 - Manually open the top and then close it.
3 - Turn off the ignition
4 - Run a fault scan, clear any faults and repeat (e.g. ignition on, manually open/close the top)
5 - Start the car and try to automatically open the top.
6 - When open, reconnect the servo linkage arms.

Although none of the flap servo faults came up, it's still a good idea to do the R&R on them because they tend to be the leading cause of top failures. Reference the link posted earlier.

Also, be sure you always have the engine running when operating the roof. It is possible to do it without the engine running, but a low battery can also trigger roof faults.


----------



## stingraymk2

Just to bring some (almost) closure to this roof issue, car is at a non-franchised VW/Audi garage who have discovered that the roof will only work automatically if you give the r/h roof flap a little help in opening. Eg pull it up a little as the roof switch is being pressed, then the motor lifts the flap quite happily. Either the motor hasnt got enough grunt to do the job, or maybe the flap is catching on something. Suggested they check the flap is aligned correctly, so lets see. Else quoted 170 UK pounds for a new motor and some other bit.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

*Why the CAT or Spline Shaft can't be fully inserted - *

When the Spline Shaft is removed, the orientation of the two thru-splines for the Actuator and Motor Assembly can become misaligned as shown below. If this happens it will become difficult or impossible to insert the Crank Arm Tool (CAT) or reinsert the Spline Shaft. If this should be the case, don't try to force the CAT/Spline Shaft into the through-spline or attempt to rotate it as this will most likely just break the CAT or in worse case, damage the Motor Assembly.

(*A*) In normal orientation the Spline Shaft passes through the Motor Assembly thru-spline and up into the Actuator thru-spline. When the motor is engaged, it rotates the Spline Shaft, which in turn rotates the Actuator which latches or unlatches the roof.

*Causes of Misalignment - *

(*B*) The most common cause is Rotational misalignment which can occur when tension on the latches causes the Actuator to rotate just enough that its through-splines are no longer correctly aligned with the Motor Assembly thru-splines. In this case the Spline Shaft or CAT can pass through the Motor Assembly thru-splines, but will not be able to fit into the Actuator thru-splines.

(*C*) Axial misalignment results when the Motor Assembly shifts out of position. This is less common as it usually only occurs if the mounting bracket has been removed and/or the single motor mounting screw is loose or missing.

















*Note* - Do not attempt to rotate the Motor Assembly thru-splines manually as this will either break the CAT or severely damage the gears inside the Motor Assembly.

















*The top is latched but now I can't pull the CAT out -*

A third situation can occur when the CAT is inserted through the Motor thru-spline and into the Actuator thru-spline. After the Actuator is rotated to secure the top (A) the CAT is no longer aligned with the Motor thru-spline (D) and the CAT can not be removed.

In this case, it's best to reinsert and fully seat the CAT back into the Actuator and rotate it in the opposite direction until it's re-aligned with the Motor thru-spline at which point the CAT can be removed. This may take several attempts to rotate, pull, rotate, pull. Be patient and don't force the CAT. When the splines are perfectly alighted, the CAT will come out as easily as it went in.









*Possible Solution - *

*Remove the Motor Assembly in order to Inserting the CAT to latch or unlatch the top - *

Tools -
• Tool kit screwdriver
• Tool kit Torx

Procedure -
• Remove the two Phillips screws that hold the mounting bracket in place.
• Remove the motor bracket.
• Remove the single Torx motor mount screw.
• Be aware of the washer located between the Motor Assembly and the Actuator.
• Disconnect the power connector.

*Note* - To avoid risk losing the mounting bracket and screws, it's a good idea to reinstall them until the roof faults have been resolved and the Motor Assembly is ready to be reinstalled.









*Note* - As long as the hydraulic pressure relief valve is left open, you can use the CAT to latch or unlatch the top and open it or close the convertible top manually.

*Inserting the Spline Shaft prior to Performing the Adaptation - *

Once the roof faults have been resolved, the Motor Assembly can be reinstalled and the top positioned for the Adaptation.

• Use the CAT to unlatch the roof and manually raise the top about half way so the leading edge is in a vertical position.
• Verify both roof latches are fully open/extended and remove the CAT.
• Close the hydraulic pressure relief valve to hold the top in place. (A second person is useful in this step)
• Insert the Spline Shaft into the Actuator through-spline until it is held in place by the small retaining clip.
• Install the washer between the Motor Assembly and Actuator. The felt side goes against the motor.
• Install the Motor Assembly. If necessary, it can be rotated against the Actuator in order to align the screw holes.
• Replace the mounting bracket and two screws.
• Replace the single motor mount screw.
• Replace the Motor Assembly power connector.
• Open the hydraulic pressure relief valve and close the top so it's resting on top of the window frame.
• Close the hydraulic pressure relief valve.

*Note* - The Adaptation can now be performed.

.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

F3rnando said:


> Ok...i can't open the latches from the rooftop , the tool that i have spins on the tip and i cant rotate the tool...i don't understand what is happening. Are the tool supposed to be like that?? I need tips pls. Thanks


@ *F3rnando* - If you would be so kind, please read through this post from beginning to end and if you still have any questions, we can go from there. If you just scroll up, you'll find some good explanations of this problem.


----------



## F3rnando

Ok, i have read all,but doesn't say nothing about the tool spinning on the tip.

I remove the Spline shaft ( it was hard to remove a lot force to remove the thing) next i inserted the tool and i can notice that it goes in 2 movements, first movemen goes all the way and stop and in second if give small push it goes the rest.

I turn the tool (not a lot off force, just a slight turn) and the thing spins but the latches won't open, i remove the tool and i see that the tip is sping...i can spin the tip with my fingers.

What I want to know if its normal that the tool spins like that... ( I think not I don't know)

Thanks one moer time SwissJetPilot, and sory my bad English.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Do I understand you correctly - the spline end of the CAT rotates? Wow - that's a new one! 

Is it screwed on? If you can unscrew it completely, then you'll want to get yourself a small tube of Red Loctite 271 and screw it back together. Let it sit for a day or two and hopefully that will sort it.

Otherwise, you could try taking it to Audi and see if they're willing to swap you for a new one since this one is obviously defective.


----------



## F3rnando

Yes, like that in the picture you posted, and i can't
screwe i try already.


----------



## F3rnando

Ok same brute force and this is the result ...WTF!! I'm going to glue this thing.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

You might want to drill & tap through the side and about half-way into the spline end. Then insert a small set screw with a dab of blue Loctite. If you don't have any small screws handy, then drill completely through and use a steel nail. Then hammer both ends (like a rivet) so it can't come out.

Either method should keep the spline end from rotating.


----------



## F3rnando

Ok, have glued with Nural 21 for cold welding , I had some leftover......going to let it dry and start again tomorrow, i don't want to risk leaving the tip on the mechanism sooo I'm let it dry until tomorrow.

Thanks, and i will be back tomorrow for more updates.


----------



## F3rnando

SwissJetPilot said:


> AH! Okay, I have not seen that before. Usually they just snap off. So it's a press fit. Intersting!
> 
> Unfortunately, glue won't work. :?
> 
> You might try drilling through the side and put in a couple of small set screws so it can't rotate. Give me a minute and I'll make a drawing for you -


If glue doesn't work i will ask my neighbor the welding machine and weld some drops.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Welding or brazing should do it! Just be sure the parts are really clean before welding/brazing and the weld bead does not extend past the diameter of the outer spline. They should be flush so they don't interfere with how the tool works or catch on anything as the CAT passed through the motor and actuator internal splines.

Personally I would just take it to Audi tomorrow and tell them the tool failed in normal use and it's obviously defective and ask if can they exchange it.


----------



## F3rnando

Well, the glue fail.
I have to try the welding.

Here some pics i think it's all lined up?


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Looks good so far. Just be aware once you rotate the actuator to latch the top, the actuator's internal splines can end up out of alignment with the motor's internal splines. When this happens, the CAT splines will hit the motor spline and can't be pulled out.

It's not a big deal, just something to be aware of. Thanks for your pictures of your failed CAT spline by the way. I have updated an older post regarding spline alignment and CAT problems -

*Manually Opening the Soft Top - Emergency Tool Problems*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1827978


----------



## F3rnando

Now that i noticed this pic, i think i have a problem...the tool doesn't go all the way to the ring in the tool.

I'm [email protected]@


----------



## SwissJetPilot

If you need to remove the spline shaft with a broken CAT, or if your CAT is missing from the tool box, you can still do it with a pair of pliers or preferably a pair of vise-grips. You can also latch the top using this method, but this will require removing the motor assembly first. I've included this procedure in another post which you can here -

*Mk2 TT (8J) Convertible Top Latch Motor Assembly Details
Securing the top without a CAT -*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 3#p9474193


----------



## F3rnando

Nice idea... 

Question, how do i aligne everything again? Do i use the spline to use has a guide?


----------



## SwissJetPilot

*UPDATE* - You can try but the problem is the end of the motor has to go in first. When the motor is removed, the rubber grommet tends to come out of the hole in the mounting plate and remain on the end of the motor. Simply remove the grommet from the motor and reinstall it back into the hole. Then you can insert the end of the motor into the grommet (it will take some force) until the motor is aligned with the hole for the single T30 Torx screw and then insert the screw and secure the motor assembly to the back plate.

You may find this whole process is a lot easier if you remove the entire plastic cover first. There are six screws in front and three plastic clips; one on each end and one in the center just inside the motor access area. Follow this post for details - click *here*.


----------



## F3rnando

SwissJetPilot said:


> You can try but the problem is the end of the motor has to go in first. The rubber stump on the end goes into a hole in the backing plate. You can see it in the pictures in previous posts of the entire assembly removed from the top. Or just look inside when you remove the motor, you'll see it.
> 
> You can try inserting the spline into the actuator, the clip will hold it in place. Then put the washer on (felt side down against the motor) slide the motor onto the spline shaft, install Torx screw and then the u-bracket. It may be easier to plug in the connector before you install the screws and bracket.
> 
> By pre-positioning the actuator so the top is not fully latched, should you need to rotate the motor a bit to get it position for putting everything back together, you'll have enough play in actuator to allow you to rotate the motor.
> 
> I think the only way to use the spline shaft, as you described, is to completely remove the entire plastic cover from the leading edge of the top. There's a few screws on the leading edge to remove first, then three plastic clips; one on each end and one in the center of the access panel opening to pull loose. With that panel out of the way, it would be really easy.
> 
> More than one way to put it all back together I suppose. Give it a try and see.


lololol :lol: that is a very technical language for me, i have to find the pictures first!!

Thanks one more time.


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## SwissJetPilot

If you remove the plastic panel, it will be much easier to work on the latch motor. Open the top so you can get to it. Remove the six screws first, then pull the plastic clips free; one on each outer edge, one in the center -

See this post -

*Mk2 TT (8J) Convertible Top Latch Motor Assembly Details*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=2009473


----------



## apoteka

hello everyone

as u know summer is coming and im not afraid of covid, so my roof will be going down
i will be changing the fabric roof soon (expensive but what can u do)
and i will ask the mechanic to check the drainpipes under the flaps i think

now about the flap motors... i change at least one every summer for years now
not so expensive, but i never know when will they fail so it can get embarrassing

so does anyone preemptively clean them or something and how is it actually done
do you just open then and clean with alcohol or?
and do you need vagcom or something after cleaning?

thank you


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Worth a read -

*How to: Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Convertible Top Flap Servo R&R*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1786641

*FAQ - The Ultimate Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Roadster Compendium*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1813290


----------



## F3rnando

Vitoria...  
Everything is ok, everything is working 100% with no errors in vcds.
I was able to align the engine of the rooftop easily, I loosened the engine screw just a little bit and was putting the key to pucos align everything, tightened the screw again and voila!

As for the flaps mechanism, the pictures say it all.
But one of the things is disturbing me is that the whole mechanism of the flaps was almost without lubrication....won't it give problems later?

One more time thank you @SwissJetPilot for your help!


----------



## SwissJetPilot

F3rnando said:


> ...whole mechanism of the flaps was almost without lubrication....won't it give problems later?


No, it will be fine. At the end of the day, there's really very little movement, not much load on the servo and it's not used that often. But if you're concerned, you can leave a little grease on the gears and just clean off what's accumulated on the circuit board and contacts.

Well done! Glad you've got it sorted. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


----------



## SwissJetPilot

willdudeuk said:


> Hi having troubles with the soft top roof not closing. Please see video links here:
> https://youtube.com/shorts/ebbBV51J5zo
> https://youtube.com/shorts/oOYA_1W0Ad4
> Going to do a scan with VCDS later to see what fault codes I've got. Seen a lot of write ups and
> guides on here but not sure exactly which one I need to follow. Any help or advice would be appreciated.


Any top faults will appear under Address 26, so once you've run a scan, let's see what you've got. I'm betting all you need to do is get the roof flap servos cleaned as shown in the post above this. Once you get that done, it should be fine.

You can see what's involved here -

*How to: Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Convertible Top Flap Servo R&R*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1786641

.


----------



## willdudeuk

Thanks for the welcome @SwissJetPilot

I shall check out the link and update my post when I've done a scan.

So it's likely to be the top flap servos that need a clean as they get contaminated with grease?

What about the locking motor that engages the hooks to lock / unlock the convertible top?

That post shows them removing the header trim to gain better access then goes on to start talking about the top flaps so I'm a bit confused already.

Here is the VCDS scan:

Looks like the code

02000 - Switch Position
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

is the problem?

The flaps go up and down OK and so does the roof, it's just the final bit when it's supposed to lock and it doesn't....



Code:


Tuesday,16,March,2021,16:36:26:33544
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 21.3.0.0 (x64)
Data version: 20210226 DS325.0
http://www.Ross-Tech.com

VIN: TRUZZZ8J491014317   License Plate:

Chassis Type: 8J (1K0)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 10 15 16 17 19 25 26 42 44 46 47 4C 52 56 77

VIN: TRUZZZ8J491014317   Mileage: 129530km-80486miles

01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction 0010
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: Malfunction 0010
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
26-Auto Roof -- Status: Malfunction 1010
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: Malfunction 0010
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
47-Sound System -- Status: Malfunction 1010
4C-Tire Pressure II -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 1010
77-Telephone -- Status: Malfunction 0010

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels:. 06F-907-115-AXX.clb
   Part No SW: 8J0 907 115 N    HW: 8J0 907 115
   Component: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI     0010 
   Revision: 5BH16---    Serial number: AUX7Z0H6FNU091
   Coding: 011300031C070060
   Shop #: WSC 00999 444 64523
   VCID: 3779465146CE8C3332-8062

4 Faults Found:
000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
               P0300 - 008 -  - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 129216 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.03.10
                    Time: 17:09:12

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 855 /min
                    Load: 20.4 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 74.0°C
                    Temperature: 45.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.843 V

000772 - Cylinder 4
               P0304 - 008 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 129216 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.03.10
                    Time: 17:09:36

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 831 /min
                    Load: 22.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 75.0°C
                    Temperature: 45.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.716 V

001152 - Coolant Fan Control Circuit 1
               P0480 - 002 - Electrical Malfunction - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100010
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 129226 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.03.10
                    Time: 17:54:30

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1383 /min
                    Load: 38.0 %
                    Speed: 7.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 86.0°C
                    Temperature: 41.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.097 V

001089 - EVAP Emission Control Sys
               P0441 - 002 - Incorrect Flow - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100010
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 129408 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.03.12
                    Time: 21:30:35

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 846 /min
                    Load: 18.8 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 65.0°C
                    Temperature: 31.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.843 V

Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 02E-927-770.clb
   Part No SW: 02E 300 051 C    HW: 02E 927 770 AJ
   Component: GSG DSG AG6     431 1809 
   Revision: 04843012    Serial number: 00000808070901
   Coding: 0000020
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 1321D2C132F680136E-8046

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 8J0-614-517.clb
   Part No SW: 8J0 614 517 A    HW: 8J0 614 517 A
   Component: ESP MK60E1          0020 
   Revision: 00H60001   
   Coding: 0607504
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 2B516A218A8638D346-807E

1 Fault Found:
01309 - Power Steering Control Module (J500)
            008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Reset counter: 34
                    Mileage: 128562 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.02.17
                    Time: 17:36:01

             Freeze Frame:
                    Count: 128
                    Count: 9029
                    Count: 8212
                    Count: 42496

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: None
   Part No SW: 8J0 820 043 AG    HW: 8J0 820 043 AG
   Component: J255  Klima 1 Zone  0080 
   Revision: 00H08006    Serial number: 00000001105678
   Coding: 1574148
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 6BD1AA214A06F8D306-803E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels:. 8P0-907-279-30-H.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 907 279 N    HW: 8P0 907 279 N
   Component: Bordnetz-SG     H54 2801 
   Revision: 00H54000    Serial number: 00000008726274
   Coding: 01040E8280141C804F1800001800000000085E075C210802000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 489B35AD3B30F3CB4B-801C

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8J2 955 119 A  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: Wischer AU354   H08 0070 
   Coding: 00064784
   Shop #: WSC 01236

1 Fault Found:
01259 - Fuel Pump Relay (J17)
            009 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101001
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 29
                    Mileage: 129004 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.03.06
                    Time: 16:58:00

             Freeze Frame:
                        OFF
                    Voltage: 12.70 V
                        OFF
                        ON
                        OFF
                        OFF
                        OFF

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 10: Park/Steer Assist (J446)       Labels:. 8P0-919-475-7X1.clb
   Part No SW: 8P0 919 475 F    HW: 8P0 919 475
   Component: PARKHILFE 4K  H06 0102 
   Revision: 11001001    Serial number: 52330822001587
   Coding: 00010B
   Shop #: WSC 01236 758 00200
   VCID: 418D2889D80AC2838C-8014

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 8J0-959-655.lbl
   Part No SW: 8J0 959 655     HW: 8J0 959 655
   Component: -t Airbag 9.43  H02 0020 
   Revision: 93H02002    Serial number: 0036K0032TM% 
   Coding: 0011636
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 79FD8069305A5A4384-802C

   Subsystem 1 - Serial number: 6332DRB407CC459D2

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6342DRB407CA0BAA1

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 63747RB403F670AE

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 8P0-953-549-F.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 953 549 F    HW: 8P0 953 549 F
   Component: J0527           H36 0070 
   Coding: 0013111
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 418D2889180AC2838C-8014

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX
   Component: E0221           H06 0030

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 8J0-920-xxx-17-MY8.clb
   Part No SW: 8J0 920 980 F    HW: 8J0 920 980 F
   Component: KOMBIINSTR. VDO H13 0330 
   Revision: D0H13005    Serial number: 2246H005001910
   Coding: 0016428
   Shop #: WSC 12345 123 12345
   VCID: 3463715D57B8672B17-8060

1 Fault Found:
00003 - Control Module
            005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100101
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 128299 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.01.16
                    Time: 15:29:32

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels:. 1K0-907-530-V3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 Q    HW: 1K0 907 951
   Component: J533__Gateway   H16 0202 
   Revision:   H16       Serial number: 2700K087048172
   Coding: EDB01F261006025101
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 35654C595CC27E2320-8060

3 Faults Found:
01304 - Radio
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 5
                    Reset counter: 33
                    Mileage: 128299 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.01.16
                    Time: 15:29:41

00830 - Convertible Top Control Module (J256)
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 17
                    Reset counter: 36
                    Mileage: 128561 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.02.17
                    Time: 14:55:49

00463 - Control Module for Digital Sound Package (J525)
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 33
                    Mileage: 129189 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.03.10
                    Time: 14:30:56

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 8J0 920 980 F    HW: 8J0 920 980 F
   Component: KOMBIINSTR. VDO H13 0330 
   Revision: D0H13005    Serial number: AUX7Z0H6FNU091
   Shop #: WSC 00137 211 56823
   VCID: 3463715D57B8672B17-8060

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 26: Auto Roof        Labels: 8J7-959-255.lbl
   Part No: 8J7 959 255 B
   Component: 256 VSG TT      H14 0110 
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 3E77537569F4BD7BF1-806A

8 Faults Found:
02000 - Switch Position
            008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 6
                    Reset counter: 3
                    Mileage: 128943 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.02.28
                    Time: 22:50:02

00457 - Central Electronics Control Module / BCM (J519)
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 7
                    Reset counter: 49
                    Mileage: 128758 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.02.28
                    Time: 18:53:33

01316 - ABS Control Module
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 5
                    Reset counter: 49
                    Mileage: 128758 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.02.28
                    Time: 18:53:33

01317 - Control Module in Instrument Cluster (J285)
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 4
                    Reset counter: 49
                    Mileage: 93984 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2017.07.13
                    Time: 13:36:54

01330 - Central Control Module for Central Convenience (J393)
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 5
                    Reset counter: 49
                    Mileage: 128758 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.02.28
                    Time: 18:53:33

01331 - Door Control Module; Driver Side (J386)
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 5
                    Reset counter: 49
                    Mileage: 128758 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.02.28
                    Time: 18:53:33

01332 - Door Control Module; Passenger Side (J387)
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 5
                    Reset counter: 49
                    Mileage: 128758 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.02.28
                    Time: 18:53:33

01336 - Company Data Bus for Comfort System
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 9
                    Reset counter: 49
                    Time Indication: 0

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels: 8P0-959-801-MAX3.lbl
   Part No SW: 8J7 959 801 H    HW: 8J7 959 801 H
   Component: Tuer-SG         004 0100 
   Coding: 0000565
   Shop #: WSC 00149 210 85453
   VCID: 418D2889180AC2838C-8014

2 Faults Found:
00096 - Drivers Door Central Locking (Safe) Motor (V161)
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
00928 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Driver Side (F220)
            008 - Implausible Signal

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1K0-909-14x-GEN3.clb
   Part No: 8J0 909 144 C
   Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl. 235    2302 
   Revision: 00H15000   
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 306B7D4DA3A05B0B73-8064

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels:. 8J0-959-433.lbl
   Part No: 8J0 959 433 B
   Component:    KSG          H11 0080 
   Coding: 1890300241182D098505489AD633
   Shop #: WSC 00137 211 56823
   VCID: 35654C595CC27E2320-8060

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
   Component: LIN BACKUP HORN H03 1301

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 8J0 951 177
   Component: DWA-Sensor      H03 0020

1 Fault Found:
00830 - Convertible Top Control Module (J256)
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System        Labels: 8J0-035-223.lbl
   Part No SW: 8J0 035 223 B    HW: 8J0 035 223 B
   Component: J525 Amp Std    H03 0120 
   Revision: 00H03001    Serial number: 93802006120706
   Coding: 0206137
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 23418201E256F093FE-8076

1 Fault Found:
00830 - Convertible Top Control Module (J256)
            004 - No Signal/Communication
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100100
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 9
                    Reset counter: 249
                    Mileage: 128561 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.02.17
                    Time: 14:55:58

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 4C: Tire Pressure II        Labels: 8J0-907-274.lbl
   Part No SW: 8J0 907 274 B    HW: 4F0 907 274
   Component: J502  RKA+      H02 0150 
   Revision: 00000000    Serial number: 00008380004834
   Coding: 0633100
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 316D7849A8AA52037C-8064

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels:. 1K0-959-702-MIN3.clb
   Part No SW: 8J7 959 802 E    HW: 8J7 959 802 E
   Component: Tuer-SG         H02 0060 
   Coding: 0000564
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 3F892E716EFEB473FA-806A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 8J0-035-1xx-56.clb
   Part No SW: 8J0 035 186 E    HW: 8J0 035 186 E
   Component: R Concert2+     H10 0050 
   Revision: 00H10000    Serial number: AUZ1Z3F5551286
   Coding: 0230101
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 2E576335B9944DFB61-807A

3 Faults Found:
01044 - Control Module Incorrectly Coded
            000 - -
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100000
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Time Indication: 15

00856 - Radio Antenna
            011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101011
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 30
                    Mileage: 129117 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.03.08
                    Time: 18:29:39

00821 - Antenna 2 for Radio (R93)
            011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101011
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 30
                    Mileage: 129117 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.03.08
                    Time: 18:29:39

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 77: Telephone        Labels: 8P0-862-335.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 862 335 N    HW: 8P0 862 335 N
   Component: FSE_256x BT     H34 0520 
   Revision: 00000000    Serial number: 00000005027289
   Coding: 0001202
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 418D2889180AC2838C-8014

1 Fault Found:
01304 - Radio
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 159
                    Reset counter: 30
                    Mileage: 128299 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.01.16
                    Time: 15:30:00

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 02:20)--------------------------


----------



## SwissJetPilot

First thing I noticed is your voltage may be a bit low (Voltage: 13.7 V), considering the engine running at the time and on a cold night, I believe it should be closer to 14V or better. A low battery can cause all kinds of problems and given the high number of faults reported, that's where I would start.

Given the number of reported faults, I'd suggest you go back, clear all the faults and run another auto scan to see which are real and which are old faults that were never cleared.

Since Address 26 hasn't thrown any serious faults other than an intermittent [E137] console switch, it could be low voltage here too. Both the left and right roof flap sensors should be around ~42 to ~184 and from your block measurements, you're right at the lower limit. Note - (closed): ~42 (open): ~184.

The Roof Flap R&R is still highly recommended BEFORE you get a fault code, as it will save you having to run the Adaptation. As long as the flaps are withing the range, you can clean them and reinstall them without any issues.

Take a read through this -

*FAQ - Audi TT (8J) Roadster - VCDS (VAG-COM) Fault Codes*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1830834

01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction 0010
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: Malfunction 0010
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
26-Auto Roof -- Status: Malfunction 1010
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: Malfunction 0010
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
47-Sound System -- Status: Malfunction 1010
4C-Tire Pressure II -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 1010
77-Telephone -- Status: Malfunction 0010


----------



## willdudeuk

Here is the scan post clearing the fault codes:



Code:


Tuesday,16,March,2021,16:46:37:33544
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 21.3.0.0 (x64)
Data version: 20210226 DS325.0
www.Ross-Tech.com

VIN: TRUZZZ8J491014317   License Plate:

Chassis Type: 8J (1K0)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 10 15 16 17 19 25 26 42 44 46 47 4C 52 56 77

VIN: TRUZZZ8J491014317   Mileage: 129530km-80486miles

01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: Malfunction 0010
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
26-Auto Roof -- Status: Malfunction 0010
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: Malfunction 0010
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
47-Sound System -- Status: OK 0000
4C-Tire Pressure II -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
77-Telephone -- Status: OK 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels:. 06F-907-115-AXX.clb
   Part No SW: 8J0 907 115 N    HW: 8J0 907 115 
   Component: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI     0010  
   Revision: 5BH16---    Serial number: AUX7Z0H6FNU091
   Coding: 011300031C070060
   Shop #: WSC 00999 444 64523
   VCID: 3779465146CE8C3332-8062

4 Faults Found:
000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected 
               P0300 - 008 -  - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 129216 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.03.10
                    Time: 17:09:12

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 855 /min
                    Load: 20.4 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 74.0°C
                    Temperature: 45.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.843 V

000772 - Cylinder 4 
               P0304 - 008 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 129216 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.03.10
                    Time: 17:09:36

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 831 /min
                    Load: 22.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 75.0°C
                    Temperature: 45.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.716 V

001152 - Coolant Fan Control Circuit 1 
               P0480 - 002 - Electrical Malfunction - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100010
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 129226 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.03.10
                    Time: 17:54:30

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1383 /min
                    Load: 38.0 %
                    Speed: 7.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 86.0°C
                    Temperature: 41.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.097 V

001089 - EVAP Emission Control Sys 
               P0441 - 002 - Incorrect Flow - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100010
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 129408 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.03.12
                    Time: 21:30:35

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 846 /min
                    Load: 18.8 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 65.0°C
                    Temperature: 31.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.843 V

Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 02E-927-770.clb
   Part No SW: 02E 300 051 C    HW: 02E 927 770 AJ
   Component: GSG DSG AG6     431 1809  
   Revision: 04843012    Serial number: 00000808070901
   Coding: 0000020
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 1321D2C132F680136E-8046

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 8J0-614-517.clb
   Part No SW: 8J0 614 517 A    HW: 8J0 614 517 A
   Component: ESP MK60E1          0020  
   Revision: 00H60001    
   Coding: 0607504
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 2B516A218A8638D346-807E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: None
   Part No SW: 8J0 820 043 AG    HW: 8J0 820 043 AG
   Component: J255  Klima 1 Zone  0080  
   Revision: 00H08006    Serial number: 00000001105678
   Coding: 1574148
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 6BD1AA214A06F8D306-803E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels:. 8P0-907-279-30-H.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 907 279 N    HW: 8P0 907 279 N
   Component: Bordnetz-SG     H54 2801  
   Revision: 00H54000    Serial number: 00000008726274
   Coding: 01040E8280141C804F1800001800000000085E075C210802000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 489B35AD3B30F3CB4B-801C

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8J2 955 119 A  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: Wischer AU354   H08 0070  
   Coding: 00064784
   Shop #: WSC 01236

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 10: Park/Steer Assist (J446)       Labels:. 8P0-919-475-7X1.clb
   Part No SW: 8P0 919 475 F    HW: 8P0 919 475 
   Component: PARKHILFE 4K  H06 0102  
   Revision: 11001001    Serial number: 52330822001587
   Coding: 00010B
   Shop #: WSC 01236 758 00200
   VCID: 418D2889D80AC2838C-8014

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 8J0-959-655.lbl
   Part No SW: 8J0 959 655     HW: 8J0 959 655 
   Component: -t Airbag 9.43  H02 0020  
   Revision: 93H02002    Serial number: 0036K0032TM%  
   Coding: 0011636
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 79FD8069305A5A4384-802C

   Subsystem 1 - Serial number: 6332DRB407CC459D2

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6342DRB407CA0BAA1

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 63747RB403F670AE

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 8P0-953-549-F.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 953 549 F    HW: 8P0 953 549 F
   Component: J0527           H36 0070  
   Coding: 0013111
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 418D2889180AC2838C-8014

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX 
   Component: E0221           H06 0030

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 8J0-920-xxx-17-MY8.clb
   Part No SW: 8J0 920 980 F    HW: 8J0 920 980 F
   Component: KOMBIINSTR. VDO H13 0330  
   Revision: D0H13005    Serial number: 2246H005001910
   Coding: 0016428
   Shop #: WSC 12345 123 12345
   VCID: 3463715D57B8672B17-8060

1 Fault Found:
00003 - Control Module 
            005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100101
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 129534 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.03.16
                    Time: 16:38:08

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels:. 1K0-907-530-V3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 Q    HW: 1K0 907 951 
   Component: J533__Gateway   H16 0202  
   Revision:   H16       Serial number: 2700K087048172
   Coding: EDB01F261006025101
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 35654C595CC27E2320-8060

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 8J0 920 980 F    HW: 8J0 920 980 F
   Component: KOMBIINSTR. VDO H13 0330  
   Revision: D0H13005    Serial number: AUX7Z0H6FNU091
   Shop #: WSC 00137 211 56823
   VCID: 3463715D57B8672B17-8060

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 26: Auto Roof        Labels: 8J7-959-255.lbl
   Part No: 8J7 959 255 B
   Component: 256 VSG TT      H14 0110  
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 3E77537569F4BD7BF1-806A

1 Fault Found:
02000 - Switch Position 
            008 - Implausible Signal
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101000
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 3
                    Mileage: 129534 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.03.16
                    Time: 16:38:29

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels: 8P0-959-801-MAX3.lbl
   Part No SW: 8J7 959 801 H    HW: 8J7 959 801 H
   Component: Tuer-SG         004 0100  
   Coding: 0000565
   Shop #: WSC 00149 210 85453
   VCID: 418D2889180AC2838C-8014

2 Faults Found:
00096 - Drivers Door Central Locking (Safe) Motor (V161) 
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
00928 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Driver Side (F220) 
            008 - Implausible Signal

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1K0-909-14x-GEN3.clb
   Part No: 8J0 909 144 C
   Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl. 235    2302  
   Revision: 00H15000    
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 306B7D4DA3A05B0B73-8064

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels:. 8J0-959-433.lbl
   Part No: 8J0 959 433 B
   Component:    KSG          H11 0080  
   Coding: 1890300241182D098505489AD633
   Shop #: WSC 00137 211 56823
   VCID: 35654C595CC27E2320-8060

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
   Component: LIN BACKUP HORN H03 1301

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 8J0 951 177 
   Component: DWA-Sensor      H03 0020

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System        Labels: 8J0-035-223.lbl
   Part No SW: 8J0 035 223 B    HW: 8J0 035 223 B
   Component: J525 Amp Std    H03 0120  
   Revision: 00H03001    Serial number: 93802006120706
   Coding: 0206137
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 23418201E256F093FE-8076

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 4C: Tire Pressure II        Labels: 8J0-907-274.lbl
   Part No SW: 8J0 907 274 B    HW: 4F0 907 274 
   Component: J502  RKA+      H02 0150  
   Revision: 00000000    Serial number: 00008380004834
   Coding: 0633100
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 316D7849A8AA52037C-8064

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels:. 1K0-959-702-MIN3.clb
   Part No SW: 8J7 959 802 E    HW: 8J7 959 802 E
   Component: Tuer-SG         H02 0060  
   Coding: 0000564
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 3F892E716EFEB473FA-806A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 8J0-035-1xx-56.clb
   Part No SW: 8J0 035 186 E    HW: 8J0 035 186 E
   Component: R Concert2+     H10 0050  
   Revision: 00H10000    Serial number: AUZ1Z3F5551286
   Coding: 0230101
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 2E576335B9944DFB61-807A

1 Fault Found:
01044 - Control Module Incorrectly Coded 
            000 - -
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100000
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Time Indication: 15

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 77: Telephone        Labels: 8P0-862-335.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 862 335 N    HW: 8P0 862 335 N
   Component: FSE_256x BT     H34 0520  
   Revision: 00000000    Serial number: 00000005027289
   Coding: 0001202
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 418D2889180AC2838C-8014

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 02:15)--------------------------

When I was in the module for the roof, it didn't give me the option to run "Adaptations" it was greyed out.....

Do you have to perform output tests to do the roof adaptation?

What do those values in the MVB represent? Is it voltage? MVB 001 (Fields 3 and 4)

Ok so need to do the R&R on the flap servos.....

Is there any other R&R required.....or is it just those servos (the ones that get contaminated with grease).

Could there be an issue with the latch mechanisms / micro switches that the soft top roof hooks and locks into the top of the windscreen?


----------



## SwissJetPilot

I suspect you can't run an Adaptation because the Servos are both operating in the expected range. You can try and output test and see what happens.

Since the grease moves around every time the flaps operate, this can become an intermittent problem, but not enough to trigger a fault. Sorting the flaps is really the first step. Clean up the Servos first, and after you get them back in and attempt to cycle the top, let's see where we need to go from there.

The values in Group 001, Blocks 3 and 4 (42.0 and 46.0) are probably resistance (Ohms) given the 'sensor' is actually a potentiometer, but I'm not sure TBH. The term 'expected range' is used on a number of fields, but it's not always clear what value it represents. If you have a DMM you could put a meter across the PCB when you're working on the Servos and verify if this is the case.

Still, despite the Address 26 fault, that's a lot of faults remaining. Have you replaced the battery or is that the original factory battery that came with the vehicle?


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *willdudeuk* - If you need more information on Address 26 Measuring Block Groups 001-008 with VCDS, this post will help explain what the data means and how to interpret the fields -

*FAQ - Mk2 Roadster Convertible Top Fault Codes & Adaptation*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1829258


----------



## willdudeuk

So would it be a bad idea to first try running the convertible top flap initialisation in output tests on VCDS without first having done the R&R on the servos?


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Since both your flaps servos are in spec, I don't see any harm doing an output test. I haven't done one but I would imagine it's like any other output test. Please report back and let us know how it worked out and what happened.


----------



## willdudeuk

I wasn't too sure after reading the guide for the flap initialisation whether the top needs to open or closed before running the output test?

Can anyone clarify for me please?


----------



## SwissJetPilot

I would start with it open first so the flaps are in the "down" position.


----------



## willdudeuk

Do you just cycle it up to the close position or do you have to cycle back to the open position with flaps down?


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Try it in both. Start with the top closed. If nothing happens, then open it and try it with the top open. I've looked through a number of Forums and can't find anything on doing this.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

carsey said:


> Hi. Thanks for the reply. I've started to read the post above, 26 pages so a good bit of late bed reading.
> I tried the adaption method through VCDS and all it did was move the roof from the locked position to unlocked in a number of cycles of the button. I cant hear any pumps whirring or note of any flaps beginning to cycle at the rear. Regarding the position of the servos and their reading in VCDS, what should they be when the roof is closed? The vehicle is at work at present so cant run out to plug it in quickly unfortunately.


@ carsey - I'd recommend you run another Auto Scan and check for any faults. I'm guessing that there is one which is why it won't run the Adaptation.

Open is ~42 and closed is ~182.

For a good read on the Auto Roof VCDS values, this post is worth a read -

*FAQ - Mk2 Roadster Convertible Top Fault Codes & Adaptation*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1829258

.


----------



## carsey

SwissJetPilot said:


> carsey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi. Thanks for the reply. I've started to read the post above, 26 pages so a good bit of late bed reading.
> I tried the adaption method through VCDS and all it did was move the roof from the locked position to unlocked in a number of cycles of the button. I cant hear any pumps whirring or note of any flaps beginning to cycle at the rear. Regarding the position of the servos and their reading in VCDS, what should they be when the roof is closed? The vehicle is at work at present so cant run out to plug it in quickly unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> Run another Auto Scan and check for any faults. I'm guessing that there is one which is why it won't run the Adaptation.
> 
> I believe closed is 42 and open is 182.
> 
> For a good read on the Auto Roof VCDS values, this post is worth a read -
> 
> *FAQ - Mk2 Roadster Convertible Top Fault Codes & Adaptation*
> https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1829258
Click to expand...

ill plug it in tomorrow and do a scan, I think theres some CAN gateway codes but ill pull a full log up tomorrow together with the sensor values of where they are reporting their positioning.

Is there anything that I should be looking for in particular?


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *carsey* - When you reply, you can just click *Post Reply* (lower left) rather than *Quote*. It just saves space. :wink:

To your question, if there are any faults, the report will look something like this. The first one "Switch Position" is the console switch as it's often locked out. The second one is the Roof Flap Sensor (G596) which is outside of the 42-182 range -



Code:


Address 26: Auto Roof Labels: 8J7-959-255.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 8J7 959 255 B
Component and/or Version: 256 VSG TT H14 0110
Software Coding:
Work Shop Code: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 3E73D87369826EEEA6F-806B
2 Faults Found:

02000 - Switch Position <-- this is the item that's reporting a problem
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent <-- this is what's wrong with that item.
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 3
Mileage: 117479 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2018.04.05
Time: 17:05:30

03246 - Sensor for Canopy Flap; Left (G596) <-- this is the item that's reporting a problem
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent  <-- this is what's wrong with that item
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 3
Mileage: 117479 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2018.04.05
Time: 17:05:30

After you run the scan, you can copy-paste the text file directly into your post. Just put the term in front and at the end to create the field you see above. Note - replace "<" and ">" with "[" and "]".

.


----------



## hjulicher

Dear All and SwissJetPilot!

Tomorrow I will be looking to purchase a car MKII 2008 MY US version Audi TT. After reading many pages (but not all 26 on here) I feel confident that I can fix the roof on my own as the seller is stating that there is a sensor issue with the roof which has it closed. This seems to be exactly the issue with grease on the Potentiometers.

My only question, if the roof is in the closed position and the TT has the pin hole locking mechanism at the roof (not the access panel), how is it possible to open/unlatch the roof to put the top in the folded position in order to access the flap assembly and access the servo motor? 

Other than the tools mentioned, it seems like it's a good idea to have a digital caliper to measure the distances of the arms. 
Also the VCDS tool from Ross-Tech can be used on any Windows PC as the software is web-based or do you have to install the software too?

I will be coming back and posting pictures of my progress. If I am able to fix this on my own, then I'm convinced anyone can.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *hjulicher* - This post is one I recommend to all Roadster owners as it covers not only the convertible top, but other issues specific to the Roadster -

*FAQ - The Ultimate Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Roadster Compendium*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1813290

To your questions - Since the seller already knows there's a problem with the operation of the roof, you might ask if they would be willing to pay for a fault scan by a Audi Service or find a local mechanic who has either Ross Tech or an OBDeleven. It would be helpful to know exactly which DTCs are logged to help diagnose the top problem. While 95% of the time the Roof Flaps are the root cause, it's not impossible for the hydraulic pump or some other component to be at fault.

I would recommend you read SSP 391 so you have a better understanding of the convertible top operation and all the possible sensors, motors and switches that are involved -

*FAQ - Audi TT (8J) Workshop Manuals & Self Study Programs
SSP 391 Audi TT Roadster*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1833829

Whether you have the bung hole or access panel, as long as you have (1) released the hydraulic pressure valve (2) removed the spline shaft you should be able to open or close the top manually. Be sure to take a look in the trunk, under the floor cover where the tools are located. Look on the right side and under the air compressor. Be sure the Crank Arm Tool (CAT) is present and not damaged -

*Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Roadster Top Emergency Tool*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1823466

With regards to the connecting arms on the Roof Flaps, using calipers to verify they are set to the correct length would be a good idea. But it's unlikely you'd need to change the length of your existing arms unless they were not set correctly at the factory. You can read about it in this TSB posted under Section 1 linked below -

The Ross Tech software is Windows based. Unlike OBDeleven, it does not require internet access to use it other than to download the latest software version for the initial set up and registration.

I'm quite sure you can fix this as many other Roadster owners with roof problems have already done so. 

*FAQ - Technical Service Bulletins (TSB)
CONVERTIBLE TOP - Convertible Top Adjustment*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &p=8560746


----------



## SwissJetPilot

*(carsey) *- I'll plug it in tomorrow and do a scan, I think there's some CAN gateway codes but I'll pull a full log up tomorrow together with the sensor values of where they are reporting their positioning.



John949 said:


> Sounds like a failure of the hydraulic pump. If you can't hear anything then probably the electric motor, either the wiring to it or the motor itself. If the motor is being commanded to run but not moving the roof then I don't think you'll get any error codes. I think you need to check for voltage on the motor connections when you try to open the roof.


@ *John 949* - Possibly, but not necessarily. The hydraulic pump is designed to time out if the top doesn't operate correctly. Fortunately, the hydraulic pump and hydraulic system is quite robust. The roof flap servos, not so much. 

_If a faulty actuator or a sensor is identified or if the signals from the sensors are not received in time, the control unit stops the convertible top operating cycle. A fault is stored in the fault memory. In addition, the control unit monitors the operating time of the convertible top. *In order to avoid overloading the hydraulic pump, the convertible top operation control unit J256 deactivates the convertible top after approx. three minutes*, provided that the convertible top is closed.

*The convertible top can be operated again until a time-out of approx. ten minutes has expired*. If the convertible top does not meet the "closed" condition after approx. four minutes of continuous operation, the control unit stops the convertible top operating cycle immediately. The convertible top cannot be operated again until a 20 minute time-out has expired. The actuation time of the convertible top lock motor is also used for monitoring the operating time of the convertible top_.



John949 said:


> Fuses SF4, SF8 & SF11 (In the boot?) are worth checking.
> SJP Yes the motor times out, but if he's not hearing it run at all.......


@ *John 949* - Fair point. I should have also asked if he was trying to operate the top with the engine running or not as a low voltage condition can also cause similar problems. I've done this myself when my old battery was on it's last legs and I attempted to open the top without the engine running.

If the hydraulic pump has failed, he should see a fault code for it -

*03245 - Canopy Position Implausible Related to the hydraulic pump* -
• Power supply issue for Convertible Top Hydraulic Pump motor (V118)
• Failed Convertible Top Hydraulic Pump motor (V118)

.


----------



## Jezzie

As I've recently bought a VAG401 OBD code reader I've run through the diagnostics and found a couple of errors that had no symptoms. Specifically it shows the 02000 and 03247 codes but the roof is operating ok.
However the VAG401 doesn't give any indication of the error frequency/date/etc... so it might have been a random event ages ago. Before I reset it, and before I do SJP's famous R&R on the servos, should I be able to take them out, clean them, and replace them without getting an adaptation done?
Thanks for advice!
jez


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *Jezzie* - If you have *03247 - Sensor for Canopy Flap; Right (G597)*, and the top still works, it's possible it's an old fault and was not cleared. Try to clear the fault. If it clears, perform the servo R&R and see if the top still operates normally. If not, and the fault is still present, then you'll need to perform an Adaptation.

To your question - Yes, you can remove the Roof Flap Servos, perform the R&R and put them back in without an Adaptation but only if the top was already working and no fault codes for the convertible top were logged.

Unfortunately, I am not familiar with the capabilities of the VAG401 OBD or whether it has the Adaptation for the soft top, so you're sort of on your own I'm afraid. But please report back and let us know your results.

As far as I am aware, only Ross Tech's software has the convertible top Adaptation feature.


----------



## carsey

Evening.

I have scanned the car tonight after work and initially no fault codes (aside from 2 related to an aftermarket radio in the CAN gateway and radio no comms) The other code was a faulty mirror switch.

Unfortunately I have forgot to bring my VCDS laptop home with me to post a copy of the auto scan.

I did however, manage to get the roof to throw a fault code up. This was:
01996 - Convertible Top Lock Switch (F294) - Open
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 2
Reset Counter: 3
mileage/time date etc also listed.

I took a look around the motor area above the windscreen and all connections were visibly tight and good. I did however notice the splined shaft of the motor touching the metal roof above it. Im not sure if this is right, or it has been messed around with before as its a vehicle the lad next door to us has bought. The roof key is in the footwell so I presume/guess someone has used it before for whatever reason.

I have included some pictures of the measuring blocks, both before fault and after the fault code was showing (See notepad text under the VCDS window for those photos taken with roof showing fault codes.
Also included is some pics of the spline I mentioned above to make sure this is correctly installed.

One other thing I tried was wobbling the flaps for the roof to see if it could make a better connection incase of the grease issue, but this didnt work as limited movement and probably cant move them too much due to the mechanics. The readings did change by about 5 on the VCDS measuring blocks screen.

I shall try upload photos now.

Thanks

Apologies the photos are in the wrong order. Bottom photo should be first. Bottom to Top order


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *carsey* - Wow, someone really shoved that Spline Shaft in there! I wonder if this is part of the problem. :?

The Spline Shaft (2) shown in the first image should extend out past the motor assembly about 3-5 mm. There's a U-Clip located inside the Actuator which keeps it in place (second image) by means of a groove cut into the Spline Shaft. This U-Clip basically prevents the Spline Shaft from falling out.

For more information on the latch motor, follow this link -

*Mk2 TT (8J) Convertible Top Latch Motor Assembly Details*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &p=9478437

While I don't know the thread size for the internal threads in the Spline Shaft, I do know they are exactly the same as the two Torx screws (a) & (b) which hold the U-Bracket (3) for the Motor Assembly (4). If you can remove one of them, you can screw it into the end of the Spline Shaft and pull the Spline Shaft back into the correct position.

If you refer to SSP391 you'll see that F294 is located on the back of the latch motor assembly. This is what's being referred to in the DTC *01996 - Convertible Top Lock Switch (F294) - Open*.

As for the VCDS screen shots, it looks like the Flap Sensors are both on the low side (< 40) which could be a problem. If there's a significant amount of grease on the contacts, it could cause a variable value each time the servo operates.

Try pulling the Spline Shaft back into the correct position, perform the R&R on your Roof Flap Servos and see if that sorts it.


----------



## carsey

Ill try pulling the splined shaft down a touch. From looking at the photo's this should be 3-5mm out from the metal bracket that holds the motor up.

I shall study the process for the R&R on the flap motors. For this, I presume I will need to manually drop the roof. IF the locking mechanism is working on the top of the windscreen, can I unlatch it using the switch in the centre console and then drop the roof manually in order to gain access to the flap mechanisms.

I guess in order to manually drop the roof, I will need to unloosen the bleed screw valve on the hydraulic pump in the boot. Is this a case of 1/4 turn and leaving 'loose' whilst dropping the roof manually? Then carrying out the R&R repair, then manually lifting the roof back to the unlocked state above the windscreen and tightening the bleed screw, then using the E137 to lock it again?


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Yes, if the top opens automatically, then you can get to the Flap Servo Motors. Just pop the link arm from the Flap and they'll go up into the default position (they're spring loaded) as shown in the instructions.

This video worth a watch if you've not opened the top manually before -

*How to manually close the roof of an Audi TT Roadster*





As long as the hydraulic valve is left open, you can manually open and close the top all day long. With the Spline Shaft removed, just use the CAT to latch and unlatch the top.

Remember, when you pull the Spline Shaft out DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ROTATE IT! Once the Spline Shaft is out, insert the other end of the CAT to latch/unlatch the top.

One trick that may avoid an Adaptation is to turn the ignition on to the first position (ACC - don't start the car) and then manually open, close and latch the top. This cycles all the switches, including F294 in a powered state. That should allow you to clear that F294 fault.

If you have to manually open the top to get the Roof Flap Servos out, just close it again and secure it so you can lock the car. Do the R&R and then manually open the top again. Install the roof flap servos, close and latch the top (use the CAT) insert the spline shaft, close the hydraulic valve and then see if the center console switch works.


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## Jezzie

I've just run through the Measurement Blocks using my el-cheapo VAG401 and it's hard to understand what it's telling you until you compare it to the VCDS screenshots posted above. Here (attached) are the same data block measurements from my car (which is reporting an error on the rhs canopy flap).

@SwissJetPilot - unfortunately Adaptation is not supported :-(

Cheers
Jez


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *Jezzie* - Okay, good to know the *VAG401* can't perform the Adaptation for the Roadster Roof. From some of the comments I've read on other forums, I had a suspicion it was a bit limited. The price alone would indicate it's not a one-to-one competitor to the Ross Tech products and the lack of technical support wasn't exactly helpful either.

So we're back to the old saying "you get what you pay for!"


----------



## carsey

@ SJP

Pulled the shaft down and had no luck. Opened the bleed valve and dropped the roof manually in order to do the R&R.

As expected, the contacts were caked up in grease. Couple pictures attached below.

I did see the Near side flap motor was built slightly different from the off-side with how the casing removes as the nearside one comes off with the link actuator rod and the plastic gear with contacts as part of the casing.

However, put it all back together and tried the roof which closed from the open posterior, but wouldn't open. Fired VCDS up and did the adaption and now works perfectly. The lad next door was over the moon.

Can't thank you enough for the help. Such a easy fix as took about 15mins a side.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *carsey* - Excellent! Glad it's all sorted. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


----------



## SwissJetPilot

StephenP said:


> Thanks a great help learning about my roadster i have read and digested nearly all links super job - but one question i can't find an answer to ?
> 
> 1. I have now completed R&R on servos (they were indeed greased thanks).
> 2. Got the "soft top cannot be used" error (probably from above R&R).
> 3. Switched ignition to accessory & manually opened & closed (still fault).
> 4. Then purchased the Ross Tech - cleared all faults - flap servo ones never came back BUT 020000 switch implausible signal keeps coming back.
> 5. Cleared all faults again then Ran the Adaption.
> 
> However Adaption stops/starts as its stated should do ....so i am thinking nearly fixed but as it gets very close to windscreen to engage and close the roof ....it stops and roof then flops against the screen - so we never get completed . [smiley=bigcry.gif]
> 
> Any ideas on that issue as i cant find any pointers to it.


Hummm..... :? Are you performing the Adaptation with the engine running or with a charger on the battery? If you don't, it's possible to end up in a low voltage condition which could cause the Adaptation to fail.

.


----------



## Jezzie

A question about the Measurement Block numbers for the flaps.

Group 007 and 008 have Threshold numbers (typically (I read) ~42 closed and ~184 open) and then there are Sensor Numbers (actual?) I have thresholds at 51 and 52 for closed and 159 and 160 for open. And I have actuals of 40 and 42 for closed - I haven't measured the open numbers yet.
Are the thresholds set during the Adaptation? And then if the actual numbers drift away from what was set during adaptation it throws a fault?

Thanks to clarify!!
Jez


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *Jezzie* - As I understand it, the ~42 / ~184 are the min/max expected operating range. The purpose of the Adaptation is to verify the sensor is operating within that range and to "learn" the new min/max values of the replaced sensor. However the use of "~" would indicate there's some tolerance allowed. Looking at my last scan, here's my values and the top is working 100% -

*Group 007*
Switch Threshold (closed) flap left (G596) = 165
Convertible top flap sensor left (G596) = 42
Switch Threshold (closed) flap right (G597) = 163
Convertible top flap sensor right (G597) = 42

*Group 008*
Switch Threshold (open) flap left (G596) = 53
Convertible top flap sensor left (G596) = 42
Switch Threshold (open) flap right (G597) = 55
Convertible top flap sensor right (G597) = 40


----------



## Jezzie

Thanks @SwissJetPilot - I'm finding this very interesting! (am I sad!?)
It seems to me that my results (and yours) are only showing the closed numbers (about 40) and it would be necessary to read the diagnostics again with the roof fully open?
I shall do mine before I do the R&R and post my numbers.

Cheers
Jez


----------



## Jezzie

I followed the superb R&R instructions from @SwissJetPilot - many thanks for all the work developing these!

I have posted below the Measurement Block 007 and 008 data values before and after doing the R&R on the right-hand-side. I wish I could confidently say I understood what has changed and why!









After doing the right-hand-side (which originally showed the error code) I thought I'd better do the left-hand-side while I had all the tools out and the procedure fresh in my mind. But it was a bit of a surprise when I opened the servo to find it was not a mirror image of the other side. Instead of the case coming off with all the components remaining in one side, half the components came out with the 'lid' while the others remained behind in the 'base'. It was a little disconcerting to immediately see those delicate contact springs, and even more nerve-wracking when it all had to be put together after cleaning!

Anyway, a good result. It all still works and no need for Adaptation! (Although I had a code the dashboard warning light never stayed on, nor was opening/closing affected.) I cleared the code but I will wait a while (a few roof cycles) before checking for codes again.

Thanks again,
jez


----------



## SwissJetPilot

> *AudiMK2* - I have a 2008 Mk2 With the current DTC's 02000, 01091, and 01092
> 
> Short back story, replaced the convertible top assembly and the to top would go up and down but wouldn't close and lock. When it goes up it would just do into the well but not grab and not. Since then I have cleaned out and reprogrammed the convertible flap servos. After using the manual tool to lock the top. The roof no longer opens or close electronically.
> 
> As of right now when I use the convertible top button I just get a message that it cannot be used. Upon checking the MVB group 1 shows convertible top status of 00000
> 
> I'm going to unplug the harness and clean it up. Outside of that I'm at a loss as to what to do. Any help would be appreciated.


@ *AudiMK2* - So, let's see what we have here 

_*02000* - Switch Position: Implausible Signal is letting you know the console switch has been locked out which is normal if any of the sensors generate a DTC (fault code).
*01091* - Convertible Top Front Switch (F202) This is a Hall Sensor located in the left main bearing of the convertible top frame.
*01092* - Convertible top Stowed Switch (F171) The signal from the convertible top stowed switch informs the convertible top operation control unit J256 whether the convertible top is stowed in the top box or not. The sensor is located on the left main bearing of the convertible top mechanism._

Since you didn't mention it, I'm going to assume you didn't run the Roof Adaptation...?? As with most of the electronics with variable output; (e.g. throttle body, gas pedal, HVAC vent servos, etc.) you can't just clear the faults, you have to run an Adaptation. In this case the Roof Adaptation.

You can either take it to Audi and have them run an the Roof Adaptation, or buy a Ross Tech VCDS and do it yourself. Unfortunately, none of the other OBDII devices; (e.g. OBDeleven, Carista, etc.) have the Roof Adaptation feature which clears the faults and allows the computer to "learn" the new values for the Roof Flap Servos if and when they have been either cleaned or replaced.

I would guess the cost of Audi's service will be pretty close to the price of a Ross Tech Hex-V2 VCDS (~200-Euro) so it's up to you which way you want to go. (Ross-Tech: HEX-V2)

Odd that neither Roof Flap Servo reported a DTC...?

One thing you might try since you don't have any DTCs for the Roof Flap Servos, is to turn the ignition in the first position (NOTE - set the parking brake, be sure it's out of gear or in park and DO NOT start it) and then manually open-close-open the top. Sometimes this will cause the sensors to trigger which may satisfy the expected sequence of events for the Roof Control Module since you're operating/cycling the top with the power on.

This post should provide you with a better understanding of what's wrong and what you may need to do -

*FAQ - Mk2 Roadster Convertible Top Fault Codes & Adaptation*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1829258


----------



## AudiMK2

SwissJetPilot said:


> I have a 2008 Mk2 With the current DTC's 02000, 01091, and 01092
> 
> Short back story, replaced the convertible top assembly and the to top would go up and down but wouldn't close and lock. When it goes up it would just do into the well but not grab and not. Since then I have cleaned out and reprogrammed the convertible flap servos. After using the manual tool to lock the top. The roof no longer opens or close electronically.
> 
> As of right now when I use the convertible top button I just get a message that it cannot be used. Upon checking the MVB group 1 shows convertible top status of 00000
> 
> I'm going to unplug the harness and clean it up. Outside of that I'm at a loss as to what to do. Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> @ *AudiMK2* - So, let's see what we have here
> 
> _*02000* - Switch Position: Implausible Signal is letting you know the console switch has been locked out which is normal if any of the sensors generate a DTC (fault code).
> *01091* - Convertible Top Front Switch (F202) This is a Hall Sensor located in the left main bearing of the convertible top frame.
> *01092* - Convertible top Stowed Switch (F171) The signal from the convertible top stowed switch informs the convertible top operation control unit J256 whether the convertible top is stowed in the top box or not. The sensor is located on the left main bearing of the convertible top mechanism._
> 
> Since you didn't mention it, I'm going to assume you didn't run the Roof Adaptation...?? You can't just clear the faults, you have to run the Roof Adaptation.
> 
> If that's the case, you can either take it to Audi and have them run an the Roof Adaptation, or buy a Ross Tech VCDS and do it yourself. Unfortunately, none of the other OBDII devices; (e.g. OBDeleven, Carista, etc.) have the Roof Adaptation feature which clears the faults and allows the computer to "learn" the new values for the Roof Flap Servos if and when they have been either cleaned or replaced.
> 
> I would guess the cost of Audi's service will be pretty close to the price of a Ross Tech Hex-V2 VCDS (~200-Euro) so it's up to you which way you want to go. (https://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/hex-v2.php)
> 
> Odd that neither Roof Flap Servo threw a DTC...?
> 
> One thing you might try since you don't have any DTCs for the Roof Flap Servos, is to turn the ignition in the first position (NOTE - set the parking brake, be sure it's out of gear or in park and DO NOT start it) and then manually open-close-open the top. Sometimes this will cause the sensors to trigger which may satisfy the expected sequence of events for the Roof Control Module since you're operating/cycling the top with the power on.
> 
> This post should provide you with a better understanding of what's wrong and what you may need to do -
> 
> *FAQ - Mk2 Roadster Convertible Top Fault Codes & Adaptation*
> https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1829258
Click to expand...

If the roof adaptation is different from that of the flap initialization then no I haven't done that one. The dealer just had to to complete the roof flap initialization but stalled because allegedly couldn't manually open the roof. Before the taking it to the dealer the codes were only for the servo flap

I've tried to turn key to on position and open and close the roof as I've read that it should work, to no avail.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *AudiMK2* - Without running the Roof Adaptation described in the post I referenced, the roof will not work.

The purpose of the adaptation is so the control module can "learn" the new values of the roof flaps. Since it logged them with a fault code, it remembers them until an Adaptation is performed. The expected range for the roof flaps are between ~42 and ~184. Any value outside this range will trigger a DTC and the system will lock out the console switch to prevent the top from operating and possibly crashing into the roof flaps since it no longer "knows" where they are.

The adaptation cycles the top so it can "learn" the new values of the replaced or cleaned servos. Until the adaptation is performed, you won't be able to operate the top.

FYI - you can just click POST*REPLY* (left side) rather than *Quote* to save space in the posts.


----------



## AudiMK2

@SwissJetPilot - ok sounds that I need to return back to the dealer for the roof adaptation. Before I do that I'll try to manually open the top with key on. A full open and close would consist of the full opening and closing including the locking to the hooks With the manual tool? Also during this the flaps aren't expected to go down to complete the opening of the top?

Is there a way to test the hall sensors for f171 & f202?


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *AudiMK2* - You can try it, but now that you've mentioned the Roof Flap Servos had a fault code logged, it probably won't make any difference. Until the Roof Adaptation is performed, the faults for the Roof Flap Servos will remain and the top will not function. Simply clearing the faults won't sort this problem.

You can trigger the hall sensors while performing a power-on manual open-close-open cycle. Use the emergency key (crank arm tool) to latch and unlatch the top to trigger the motor switch and latch switches. You'll need to be able to see measurement block 001 (shown below) to know whether they were triggered or not. And no, the flaps need to remain in the disconnected "up" position to avoid collision with the frame as the top goes up and down. You can't operate (open/close) the flaps manually.

Refer to the post I linked for more information.

If you have one, I believe you can view measurement block 001 with an OBDeleven, you just can't run the Adaptation since it's not available with any of the OBDII devices.


----------



## AudiMK2

@SwissJetPilot- alright I'll give it a try and get back with the results


----------



## staponis

Greetings!
I have been an AUDI TT owner since 2003 starting with an AUDI Coupe 225HP back then and since 2008 I drive a 3/2007 Roadster MK2. I bought it with 8K Km back then and currently has an 88K Km on the dash. That means a very - very light use of the car all those years, with services (and other corrective maintennace jobs) being done in the official dealership without missing a single one of those. 
My first encounter with the problem was back in 2009 (one year after purchasing) and the milage somewhere around 15K Km. It was around a 500€ job and my supposingly faulty motors were replaced, both of them. Then it happened again around 2013. Same issue again. Approx. the same price tag. 
Third one is always a charm, and currently after an almost two years quarantine of me (and the car itself), when I tried a month ago to raise the hood, the well known warning light came up along with the abnoxious 'soft top can not be used' message.

Thank you guys. Wish me luck.


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## SwissJetPilot

@ *staponis* - Καλώς ήρθατε στο Φόρουμ! 

In order to do any DIY repairs on the convertible top, you'll need a Ross Tech VCDS. There are other OBDII devices on the market, but only the VCDS is able to perform a Roof Adaptation which is necessary when replacing or after cleaning and reinstalling the Roof Flap Servos. It will also provide you with any faults (DTC - Diagnostic Trouble Codes) that would indicate exactly what faults are present with the roof to help understand what's failed. Cleaning and replacing the Roof Flap Servos is relatively easy, but you'll need a VCDS in order to perform the Adaptation to get the system working again.

As for the separation of the roof from the window, you'll need to provide some pictures in order to determine how bad it is. There is a special heavy-duty hook-and-loop material used to keep it together that sometimes only requires a push in order to get it back together.

Here are some posts that may be of help -

*The Ultimate Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Roadster Compendium*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1813258

*FAQ - OBDII Scanner Reviews*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=2014603

*How to: Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Convertible Top Flap Servo R&R*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1786641

*Roadster Roof Lining Detached from Rear Window*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1922137


----------



## staponis

SwissJetPilot said:


> @ *staponis* - Καλώς ήρθατε στο Φόρουμ!
> 
> In order to do any DIY repairs on the convertible top, you'll need a Ross Tech VCDS. There are other OBDII devices on the market, but only the VCDS is able to perform a Roof Adaptation which is necessary when replacing or after cleaning and reinstalling the Roof Flap Servos. It will also provide you with any faults (DTC - Diagnostic Trouble Codes) that would indicate exactly what faults are present with the roof to help understand what's failed. Cleaning and replacing the Roof Flap Servos is relatively easy, but you'll need a VCDS in order to perform the Adaptation to get the system working again.
> 
> Here are some posts that may be of help -
> 
> *The Ultimate Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Roadster Compendium*
> 
> https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1813258
> 
> *FAQ - OBDII Scanner Reviews*
> https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=2014603
> 
> *How to: Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Convertible Top Flap Servo R&R*
> https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1786641
> 
> Actually I am not that new, I joined two summers ago, but since then I am reading - not posting. Well as you guys often say in here, I bit the bullet and went for the flap motor change, around 550€ - end price. I asked them whether they played with adjustments or opened the casing to mess around with the insides and naturally they replied they are not permitted to by AUDI. So I gave the order for the change by noting that I will be needing the replaced motors as soon as they take them out. As soon as I have them, I will open them and see what's in them in term of grease.


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## SwissJetPilot

@ *staponis* - Unfortunately, it's difficult to tell why the window is separating from the top from the pictures. You may need to crawl back there with the top closed, and check around all the edges. I know there were problems with the Mk1 glass separation, but generally the Mk2's have help up pretty well.

If you have a trusted and experienced convertible shop that knows the Audi TT, it may be worth having them look at it. In my opinion, the technicians at Audi are not trained to trouble-shoot or diagnose problems. They simply plug in the VAS, read the fault codes and replace whatever shows up without any thought to question why the part failed. So asking Audi why the window is separating is a bit pointless.

As an FYI, the top is manufactured by a company called Webasto Convertibles GmbH. They make tops for a lot of cars, so see if you can find someone familiar with that convertible top manufacturer; e.g. Jaguar, Lamborghini, etc.

Failing that, this post may help -

*How to: Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Soft Top Window Debond Repair*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... t=1874307&


----------



## staponis

SwissJetPilot said:


> @ *staponis* - Unfortunately, it's difficult to tell why the window is separating from the top from the pictures. You may need to crawl back there with the top closed, and check around all the edges. I know there were problems with the Mk1 glass separation, but generally the Mk2's have help up pretty well.
> 
> If you have a trusted and experienced convertible shop that knows the Audi TT, it may be worth having them look at it. In my opinion, the technicians at Audi are not trained to trouble-shoot or diagnose problems. They simply plug in the VAS, read the fault codes and replace whatever shows up without any thought to question why the part failed. So asking Audi why the window is separating is a bit pointless.
> 
> As an FYI, the top is manufactured by a company called Webasto Convertibles GmbH. They make tops for a lot of cars, so see if you can find someone familiar with that convertible top manufacturer; e.g. Jaguar, Lamborghini, etc.
> 
> Failing that, this post may help -
> 
> *How to: Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Soft Top Window Debond Repair*
> 
> &


Thanks.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

As long as it can be manually opened and closed, they should be able to do any repairs necessary. But ask the shop to be sure. Just let them know the situation and see what they say.


----------



## staponis

SwissJetPilot said:


> As long as it can be manually opened and closed, they should be able to do any repairs necessary. But ask the shop to be sure. Just let them know the situation and see what they say.


Thanks.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Just to be clear, the top was left open (folded down and stowed as shown below) for nearly four years? The owners manual states -

_"Do not leave the folding top open for several weeks at a time; instead, open and close it from time to time so that the fabric does not discolor where it folds, and to prevent creases from forming."_

If so, I'm guessing that may explain why the window is separating from the top


----------



## apoteka

Changed the fabric top 2 months ago,
asked the mechanic to clean the flap motors as described in the pdf
Really really hoped it would make it through the summer
However yesteday went out with the wife - roof down, wont go up, classic.
So i was wondering how is everybody's expericence with the cleaning
does it last, how often do you do it?

Anyway, left motor is probably a week of two out of warrany ofc
right one changed last summer, semptember. Hope its that one, but i know it wont be :x


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *apoteka* - It's possible that over time, as the temperatures go up over the summer, and with an increased frequency of opening/closing the top, any excess grease could make it's way back onto the PCB and trigger a DTC. Only way to know is to first run a fault scan and if the DTC is present, open up the servo and have a look.


----------



## staponis

SwissJetPilot said:


> Just to be clear, the top was left open (folded down and stowed as shown below) for nearly four years? The owners manual states -
> 
> _"Do not leave the folding top open for several weeks at a time; instead, open and close it from time to time so that the fabric does not discolor where it folds, and to prevent creases from forming."_
> 
> If so, I'm guessing that may explain why the window is separating from the top


No, the other way around. The top was down for four years, meaning did not open it for almost four years. Which is also not proper I guess, don't know if it is an excuse for window seperating from the top.


----------



## apoteka

SwissJetPilot said:


> @ *apoteka* - It's possible that over time, as the temperatures go up over the summer, and with an increased frequency of opening/closing the top, any excess grease could make it's way back onto the PCB and trigger a DTC. Only way to know is to first run a fault scan and if the DTC is present, open up the servo and have a look.


Im due at the dealer on wednesday... Yeah its been hot with occasionall dirty rain.

Another question about the motor, there is a new version 8j0 959 311 A and im not sure what version do i have. Did that revised part solved tho problem or not?
Because i had an argument with the dealer about that. They replaced it (many times) with the old original version because the computer said so (0 common sense). I cant remember if i managed to get the newer one I guess ill just have to wait till Wednesday


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *apoteka* - I'm not sure about the roof flap servo revision change. Audi, like most manufacturers, revises their designs for a number of reasons; lower cost, improved performance, enhanced durability, material change, etc. Sometimes the changes are subtle, other times they're significant. Unfortunately, Audi isn't sending out press releases every time they make a revision change. :lol:

One way to tell is to physically compare a Rev "A" part with Rev "B" part and see if you can tell the difference.


----------



## apoteka

Found this somewhere (pdf attach)
I know there was a recall of the flap motors, however mine wasnt included based on the vin, according to my local dealer / service.
The whole situation is just frustrating...


----------



## SwissJetPilot

You can find that TSB, and many others, in the Knowledge Base. As shown below, I have the early version (no revision letter) on my roof flap servos and mine still quit working due to the grease.

*FAQ - Technical Service Bulletins (TSB)*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1687826

It's possible Audi changed suppliers and the new supplier did something wrong during manufacturing which only showed up during actual operation. Perhaps the PCB was defective or the contact "fingers" weren't bent correctly and didn't make a good electrical contact on the PCB. It's difficult to know for sure unless you can compare both versions side by side.

If you look at the picture below, you can see the label from the one pictured in the TSB (top) and the label from one of my own roof flap servos (bottom). With exception of the "A" revision, the only numbers that are different are 192 vs. 031. This three digit number could be the suppliers identification code number so VAG can tell which supplier made this part. Looking through replacements on eBay, I've seen these in boxes labeled "made in Czech Republic" and "made in Slovakia", so it's anyone's guess who made them.

A similar manufacturing defect occurred with the 3.2 VR6 timing chains; they changed suppliers from Iwis to Sachs. During the investigation into timing chain failures, they had determined that the stamp that made the logo on each chain link was too sharp, leading to micro cracks in the metal which caused them to fail.

It's possible with the roof flaps something similar happened; either the supplier's manufacturing methods were not very good or they had poor quality control to the point VAG had to implement a recall.


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## apoteka

should i expect that A (newer) version to at least last longer?
and what do you do with your motors, clean them regularly ?


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## SwissJetPilot

It's not the motors that are the problem, it grease on the PCB board and the contact "fingers". This is why you should just do the R&R yourself because you have no idea how much grease the shop left behind, or if they did it at all.

*How to: Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Convertible Top Flap Servo R&R*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1786641


----------



## SwissJetPilot

> HI everyone,
> 
> My first time posting so please be gentle if I have posted in the wrong place!
> My 2008 roadster roof has started playing up, it goes down fine but won't go back up without me doing it manually.
> When I try to raise the roof the windows drop and the flaps open but that's as far as it goes.
> Any advice or pointers would be much appreciated .
> 
> Many thanks Rob


@ *Rob29029* - Odds are good its the Roof Flap Servo's. Without a fault scan you won't know for sure, but they're generally responsible for 99% of the top issues.

Couple of good posts worth reading -

*FAQ - The Ultimate Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Roadster Compendium*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1813290

This will show you how to sort out the Roof Flap Servos -

*How to: Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Convertible Top Flap Servo R&R*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1786641


----------



## SwissJetPilot

*Note* - I have migrated this thread from a previous post in order to help prevent multiple posts on the same topic. Thanks for your understanding. 

*FAQ - Mk2 Roadster Convertible Top Fault Codes & Adaptation*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1829258



> "*bobbob" * - thank you for another informed reply .
> 
> i have cycled the top at least a dozen times now ,
> 
> i have also cleared the codes and the lights etc go out no code left, when pressing forwards on switch nothing happens but when pulling back to open the fault comes straight back,
> 
> lastly when my roof is down the flaps are still up pointing to the sky and as i have no way to run the roof adaptation im snookered,
> 
> think ill buy a roof switch now !
> 
> just opened up control module to see if any damp ets as was saying short to motor thought be worth a look and the tops of the chips are missing snapped off but no bits inside ! any ideas ? heres a pic but no faults showing for module mind.


@ *bobbob* - Sorry, but I don't think I can help you further on this I'm afraid. :? You may want to take this into Audi and have them go through it at this point. It's quite possible the module is defective or damaged but I honestly don't know how to trouble shoot one if even if that's the case. While unlikey, it could also be that one of the Roof Flap Servos is also defective; (e.g. perhaps the trace on the PCB is somehow damaged).

Unfortunately, Audi won't spend much time trying to trouble shoot the module either, they'll just replace it. You could try picking up a used one from eBay (check what Audi wants for one first, resellers are not always a bargain). Randomly swapping parts isn't the best method to resolve these kinds of problems, which is why you may want to have Audi look at it.

If not Audi, then it might be worth a discussion with a good convertible top shop that's familiar with the Mk2 TT convertible top operation. Sorry I can't be of more help. But please, when you do get this resolved, let us know the solution.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Docwallz said:


> *VCDS Help Please Roof Not Working*
> Hi
> A newbie to the forum here. Excellent source of knowledge here by the way....
> 
> I decided to join as I need some help for running an adaptation for the roof of a 2008 8J which is being problematic
> 
> I have read many posts and must say Swiss Jet Pilot is a technical genius !!! or Haynes manual concise !!
> 
> Anyway I had the roof looked at when it packed up a couple of months ago and after a software check the drivers door harness had many faults due to frayed wires. That fixed the windows and roof and central locking all worked. 2 weeks later the doors and windows still work but the hood packed up. I took off and cleaned up the lift flap motors and no change. I took it to my local VW/Audi different place to original test.....£40 later they said diagnostics said roof pump failed and wanted a £1000 for Reconditioned one.
> Not happening !
> I have bought one for £399 off roof motors website and when I have got access to the old pump the hydraulic fluid level is very low. I am going to top up the fluid 1st and see if that brings the roof to life. If not I shall replace the pump. Question is will it work straight away or will it still need a adaptation and second question is there any members local to Darlington who could do it for me than too keep paying £40 for no information other than it needs this and that part and costs a mint to install !! I obviously will pay someone local but who wants to help and isn't interested in making money out of my misfortune...
> 
> Any members that can help or have any thoughts or suggestions greatly appreciated. :idea: :?:


*First* - is there any possibility you can post the fault codes from an auto scan? Hopefully the shop that did the last repairs gave you one. It would be really helpful to know exactly which DTCs are being reported.

*Second* - if there are any DTCs logged under Address-26 for the Convertible Top it won't function. The control module simply shuts off the automatic mode (disengages the center console switch) when a DTC is logged. DTCs that are present have to be addressed and then the Adaptation can be performed. This process basically allows the control module to verify everything works and that all the expected values are present.

*Third* - depending on how long you intend to keep your Roadster and whether or not you want to work on the vehicle and do services and maintenance yourself, you may want to consider buying yourself a Ross Tech VCDS. Unfortunately, none of the OBD-2 devices; (e.g. OBDeleven, Carista, etc.) have the ability to perform the roof adaptation. Obviously forking out 200-Euro isn't an easy decision, but at least you won't be dependent upon Audi Service or an indie to help figure out what's going wrong, or to resolve the problem when the repair has been performed as with this current issue.

*Fourth* - the convertible top hydraulic system is a closed circuit, so the question to be investigated is why is the fluid level low? I'm assuming when you say "old pump" you're referring to the OEM factory pump installed in your vehicle. Hydraulic pumps have been known to fail, but it's not that common and usually it's something else as you noted; e.g. roof flaps, or in the case of low fluid, possible failing seals at the pump or hydraulic cylinders. While difficult to see, it would be worth getting in there with a flashlight to determine if there is any fluid present on one or both of the cylinders or where the lines connect to the pump.

If you need a reference, read through *SSP391* and Workshop Manual *General Body Repairs, Exterior -A005TT00220*. You can find both in the link below -

*FAQ - Audi TT (8J) Workshop Manuals & Self Study Programs*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1833829

.


----------



## Sye2021

Hi all, so its my turn to have a go at the R&R of the flap servos on my 2009 TTSR as Audi have quoted £ 750 to replace the two to "see" if that solves the problem but a further scan would be required afterwards to find any further issues as no faults were present lol, no thanks. Instead i bought the new VCDS cable. My issue is slightly different to many as my roof will detach at the front but then goes no further, if i manually open the roof then try to close it the flaps go up but then fails. My scan shows roof faults dated before the visit to Audi for MOT & Service last week ( and the diagnostics on roof while i was there ) so seems odd they said that. I have attached my scan results....

Audi did say my battery was a cell down and i have had issues with the car starting in a morning being sat around having to WFH a lot bit so have got the OEM replacement from TPS to fit before i crack on with this. The old battery is the original so would sound about right i guess.

Great how to on this issue by you all so will report back hopefully with good news....



Code:


Friday,24,September,2021,15:28:57:28069
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 21.9.0.2 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4555.4
Data version: 20210903 DS330.0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Address 26: Auto Roof       Labels: 8J7-959-255.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 8J7 959 255 B
  Component and/or Version: 256 VSG TT      H14 0110
           Software Coding:
            Work Shop Code: WSC 00000 000 00000
                      VCID: 3E25373D8C716FAB95D-806A
4 Faults Found:

02000 - Switch Position
            008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 3
                    Mileage: 114987 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.04.21
                    Time: 11:35:06

03246 - Sensor for Canopy Flap; Left (G596)
            008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 3
                    Mileage: 114987 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.04.21
                    Time: 11:35:05

03247 - Sensor for Canopy Flap; Right (G597)
            008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 13
                    Reset counter: 3
                    Mileage: 114987 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.04.21
                    Time: 11:35:26

00446 - Function Limitation due to Under-Voltage
            002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100010
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 2
                    Mileage: 114987 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.04.21
                    Time: 11:35:54


----------



## Jezzie

You MUST get the battery fitted before you continue - low voltage will generate loads of fault codes. And when you’re testing the roof with VCDS you should run the engine too.
Good luck
Jez


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## Sye2021

Yes deffo my thinking was a "semi " failing battery need doing first before you can get any accurate reslults.

Just out of interest, can i con the car with my boosterpack under the bonnet while i change the battery in the boot...


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## SwissJetPilot

@ *Sye2021 - *I think so, but it's not really necessary. The dash will light up like a Christmas tree after a battery replacement which is normal and you'll loose your window auto-up/down settings. Just drive around for 10-minutes and the lights will clear themselves and then run the manual reprogramming of your windows. If you're doing the battery swap yourself, be sure to put a towel or something over the trunk latch so you don't lock yourself out if you accidentally close the trunk. 









How To: - Disconnect and Reconnect the Battery


Information collated by YoungOldUn with input from Hoggy and brittan. To sum up when working on any part of the electrical system, carry out the following - Disconnecting the Battery 1. Slightly open the passenger and drivers windows, by at least 10mm. 2. Remove key from the ignition. 3...




www.ttforum.co.uk




As to your scan, these are the typical roof flap servo DTCs. Don't forget to run the Adaptation after you get them cleaned out in installed. I find it incredible that Audi wanted £ 750 to replace the roof flap servos. Looks like your VCDS just paid for itself! 









FAQ - Mk2 Roadster Convertible Measurement Blocks, Fault...


Section 1 - Convertible Top Fault Codes - When the roof fails to operate properly, it will require an OBDII scan device such as a Ross-Tech VCDS or OBD-dongle device; (e.g. OBDeleven, Carista, etc.) in order to identify the DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) and affected components. Since fault...




www.ttforum.co.uk




Just a FYI on posting your auto scan log in the forum;

1.) Start with the text {code} in brackets - use these brackets [ ] not these { }
2.) Paste the text data
3.) End with the text {/code}










You'll end up with a field within your post that looks like this, if the text is a full scan, you'll get a vertical scroll bar on the right. However, to minimize the amount of space that this takes up in a post, if you take a minute and remove some of the less necessary information like date, mileage, etc., you can shorten it a bit too -



Code:


                Address 26: Auto Roof       Labels: 8J7-959-255.lbl

4 Faults Found:

02000 - Switch Position
            008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
            
03246 - Sensor for Canopy Flap; Left (G596)
            008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
          
03247 - Sensor for Canopy Flap; Right (G597)
            008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
       
00446 - Function Limitation due to Under-Voltage
            002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100010


----------



## Sye2021

SwissJetPilot said:


> @ *Sye2021 - *I think so, but it's not really necessary. The dash will light up like a Christmas tree after a battery replacement which is normal and you'll loose your window auto-up/down settings. Just drive around for 10-minutes and the lights will clear themselves and then run the manual reprogramming of your windows. If you're doing the battery swap yourself, be sure to put a towel or something over the trunk latch so you don't lock yourself out if you accidentally close the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How To: - Disconnect and Reconnect the Battery
> 
> 
> Information collated by YoungOldUn with input from Hoggy and brittan. To sum up when working on any part of the electrical system, carry out the following - Disconnecting the Battery 1. Slightly open the passenger and drivers windows, by at least 10mm. 2. Remove key from the ignition. 3...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ttforum.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As to your scan, these are the typical roof flap servo DTCs. Don't forget to run the Adaptation after you get them cleaned out in installed. I find it incredible that Audi wanted £ 750 to replace the roof flap servos. Looks like your VCDS just paid for itself!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FAQ - Mk2 Roadster Convertible Measurement Blocks, Fault...
> 
> 
> Section 1 - Convertible Top Fault Codes - When the roof fails to operate properly, it will require an OBDII scan device such as a Ross-Tech VCDS or OBD-dongle device; (e.g. OBDeleven, Carista, etc.) in order to identify the DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) and affected components. Since fault...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ttforum.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a FYI on posting your auto scan log in the forum;
> 
> 1.) Start with the text {code} in brackets - use these brackets [ ] not these { }
> 2.) Paste the text data
> 3.) End with the text {/code}
> 
> View attachment 477079
> 
> 
> You'll end up with a field within your post that looks like this, if the text is a full scan, you'll get a vertical scroll bar on the right. However, to minimize the amount of space that this takes up in a post, if you take a minute and remove some of the less necessary information like date, mileage, etc., you can shorten it a bit too -
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Address 26: Auto Roof       Labels: 8J7-959-255.lbl
> 
> 4 Faults Found:
> 
> 02000 - Switch Position
> 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
> Freeze Frame:
> Fault Status: 00101000
> 
> 03246 - Sensor for Canopy Flap; Left (G596)
> 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
> Freeze Frame:
> Fault Status: 00101000
> 
> 03247 - Sensor for Canopy Flap; Right (G597)
> 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
> Freeze Frame:
> Fault Status: 00101000
> 
> 00446 - Function Limitation due to Under-Voltage
> 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
> Freeze Frame:
> Fault Status: 00100010


----------



## Sye2021

Sorry SJP im still getting used to posting on here, used the site for 15 years ive just never really posted lol. Audi also want £ 750 to replace my "rusty" rear coil springs so they can jog on with that aswell, but thats for another day...

Regarding the roof servos, are they ok to be left without much grease in there or can a bit of synthetic or silicone grease be used ?

Cheers


----------



## SwissJetPilot

No worries. We're all getting used to the new format.  

Yeah, Audi Service centers are quick to lighten your wallet!

As to the grease, you can just use what's already there. I left very little other than a smear at all the gear interfaces, and it's been fine ever since. You just don't want so much that it can migrate back onto the PCB again. The boffins at Audi have already figured out the best lubricant that won't damage the metal and plastic parts, so IMHO you're better off not replacing it with something else.


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## Sye2021

No worries ill re-use a bit of that then. Also just wondering about the fault codes, do i clear them before starting the R&R or afterwards. I presume they need clearing before doing the adaption ?


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## SwissJetPilot

The faults will clear themselves during the Adaptation. As I understand how it works, the existing fault values (the values that are out of the expected range) are stored in memory - the out of range values trigger the DTC. When you run the Adaptation it basically over-writes the old valuves and records the new values it gets from the cleaned up servos. As long as the new values are in the expected range, it's good to go.


----------



## Sye2021

Just a quick update. Break in the weather today so got out there and did the R&R and can report the roof is now working fine. Servos wernt to bad grease wise but it had gone quite cheese like so all that was removed, N/S servo the worm gear had disloged and wasnt even in contact with the motor so that was a problem in itself but just needed re-seating. As said in earlier post i changed the battery before doing this with it being on its way out.

So thanks for the write up and hopefully wont be a problem again....

Sye


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## SwissJetPilot

Glad that's all sorted and your top's working again!


----------



## Ganksta

I want to send a HUGE thank you to *SJP* for his awesome notes and tips on fixing my issue! A little background: last summer, I purchased my 2008 Roadster 3.2 knowing that the roof wasn't fully operational and that it only works manually for opening and closing. For the price I paid ($8k USD with 150k miles) and only a summer car, it didn't bother me so I got accustomed to doing the manual method to open/close. However, as time went on, I decided to do some troubleshooting and see if I'm able to fix this issue. As part of the troubleshooting, I noticed my spline didn't have the correct end as shown in these pictures:















I reached out to SJP and he was very quick to respond with proper links and discussion topics for me to try. SJP also confirmed my suspicion and that the previous owner inserted the spline incorrectly. That said, I decided to buy the repair kit and took time to follow this thread (*Alternate Method for Inserting or Replacing the Spline Shaft)*

I followed the instructions and removed the U-bracket but still wasn't able to take out the motor without. However, I used a 10mm socket and removed the 2 bolts (sorry I didn't take a better pic of the bolts):









And the torx bit to remove these 2:








Once these came out, the motor assembly was easily accessible and I was able to remove the spline. After that, I put in the new spline from the repair kit including the retaining clip. I had to move the actuator arm a bit for the spline to align and it went in easily. After that, I put everything back as they were and VOILA! the top went up and down without any issues! I did it at least 7 times jus to make sure and I am EXTREMELY happy. Thank you to SJP and this forum! Here's pic of my TT:


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *Ganksta* - Glad that worked out!  Now you're all ready for the summer.  As an FYI the T30 motor retaining screw is highlighted in green. The U-Bracket screws are highlighted in blue -










And for anyone else who runs into a problem with the spline shaft either installed backwards or if it's broken, zou can follow the post *here* which *Ganksta* used as it provides some additional information on the roof locking motor assembly.

Normally, if your Roadster has the U-Bracket (they don't always have it) simply remove the two T30 screws, then the U-Bracket, and then remove the single motor retaining T30 screw and the entire motor assembly can be removed. Be aware of the felt-backed washer located between the motor and the mounting plate as you withdraw the spline shaft.

As *Ganksta* has pointed out if the situations requires it, the two nuts and two screws can also be removed to get behind the mounting plate. Nice!

*With the U-Bracket already removed, use the T30 from the tool kit to remove the motor retaining screw -*









*Be aware as the motor is removed, there's a felt-backed washer between the motor and mounting plate -*


----------



## SwissJetPilot

The following reply is from this post by *repsol *-








Softtop Problem - Implausible Signal on Center Console...


Need some help please if anyone knows how or what's gone wrong. Went to open the hood this morning and it stopped halfway down and said on dashboard, softtop cannot be used. I tried to raise it manually but couldn't do it as I couldn't get the screw to turn on the hydraulic pump to de...




www.ttforum.co.uk







repsol said:


> So by removing the motor it allows you to rotate it ,or does it end up going back into the same position? Surely if its only held in place with one screw it will always rotate at this fixing point. I've just spent over an hour looking through past posts to find anything at all that shows how to correct rotational misalignment?


----------



## SwissJetPilot

@ *repsol* - When the spline shaft is removed, any tension in the actuator assembly can cause the actuator to rotate just slightly. When that happens the rotational alignment between the actuator and motor changes which is why the CAT often catches on the motor gear when you try to remove it as shown below. It's also why the spline shaft won't fully insert when trying to put it back in.








The other thing that can happen when the spline shaft is removed is if the mounting screw isn't totally secure, the rubber grommet on the end of the motor can push the motor slightly to the left causing an axial misalignment problem.

















Since the motor can't be rotated manually and there's no way to get your hands on the actuator arms, the motor needs to be removed so you can put the spline shaft into the actuator, and then reinstall the motor. When you do this, the motor will act as a lever (since the gears inside can't turn) and will take advantage of the slack in the actuator by turning it ever so slightly. The rotational movement is so minor as to not be noticed, but enough that it will all go back together quite easily.

This is why you'll need to remove the motor, insert the spline into the actuator and then re-install the motor onto the spline shaft. It's not a logical assembly process, but it works. You can either go through the access panel, or do it with the top half open and the leading edge cover removed.

Pay special attention to the large rubber grommet in the mounting bracket which fits over the "nub" end of the motor assembly. Be sure it remains inside the bracket so you can fit the nub into it and then secure the motor with the mounting screw.

If you put the grommet on the end of the motor and then push it into the bracket, it will jam and make seating the motor very difficult and you may end up damaging the grommet.

NOTE - The U-Bracket (3) and the two screws (a & b) may or may not be present in your model. If it's there, you'll need to remove those parts in order to get the motor out.

Take a look at this post -








FAQ - Mk2 TT (8J) Convertible Top Latch Motor Assembly...


I managed to pick up a used latch assembly from eBay as I needed to replace the U-Bracket (3) that's been missing on mine. I thought this would make an interesting presentation of the all the parts associated with it if Roadster owners ever have to deal it. Unfortunately, the assembly I received...




www.ttforum.co.uk




*Motor Side*









*Actuator Side*









*Motor Bracket Grommet*


----------



## repsol

Thanks Swissjetpilot that's all the info I need, I'll have a go at the weekend with it. Are you a Audi master tech by any chance? Your knowledge is phenomenal.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

No, not at all. I'm an engineer, but not for Audi.  

I ran into this same problem when I was in Italy shortly after buying my Roadster maaaany moons ago, and the local Italian Audi Service Center couldn't figure it out. They pulled the motor, left it on the floor of the passengers side, latched the top secure with the CAT and told me to take it to a German Audi shop when I got home.

After that, I made it my personal quest to figure out how the top worked and to ensure no one else had their holiday ruined because of Audi's crappy design! It's actually how I got started in the Forum and have been here ever since.

Good times!


----------



## SwissJetPilot

_"Got the full cover off and noted that these 2 white plastic screws. Do you know if there for any adjustment as they look like torx heads?"_

The two screws marked with a red X are motor assembly case screws, so don't bother with them.

First start by removing the U-Bracket (highlighted in green). And then remove the T30 (highlighted in blue) which is the bolt that holds the motor to the frame.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

The information below is from *this post* which has been closed.

*2008 Roadster - Roof Flap Servo Part Number (8J0 959 311 A)*

_Hi Swiss, _

_Just a quick question if i may...the two new servo motors i ordered arrived today but before i start taking the the hood down and removing the current faulty motors (as per your previous excellent photo guide on how to refurb) i have noticed that they appear to be different handed although I was assured by a VAG mechanic that they are not specific to left or ride side fitment.

The reason i say that is in the attached pic the angle/positioning of the servo arm axle connecting end appears to be set in different positions (on the motor numbered 217-14 1 the angled corner is *bottom* left and on the motor numbered 048-20 1 the same angled corner sits *top *left of the housing) despite all the screw mountings, and connector housing being same orientation on both motors visually.

I'm wondering if this is correct from your experience or have i been sent a rogue motor? I was expecting them to be identical from conversation with the VAG mechanic who has now gone AWOL with covid so not replying to queries! 

Any experience or advice would be appreciated before i start getting the socket sets out. _

_Thanks!_











According to 7zap, they only mention one servo motor and it has an "A" suffix so there's no left or right variant. As far as I can tell, the original servo motor installed at the factory doesn't have the "A" suffix. I believe the "A" suffix is only to identify replacement servos. This is not an uncommon practice for VAG where the replacement part number can sometimes be different than the factory installed part number. 

NOTE - see this *TSB* for more on the "A" suffix part replacement campaign.

Do yourself a favor remove one side, make the exchange and then to the same for the other side. DON'T TAKE THEM BOTH OFF AT THE SAME TIME to avoid mixing them up.

If you look closely, you'll see that the arms have to be installed so they are on one side of the stop or the other (circled in yellow) -

• Left red arrow / red outline
• Right green arrow / green outline

These photos are of the left one (red) when the servo was removed, so the arm is in the default "flap up" position.


----------

