# Audi finance contribution madness



## EvilTed (Feb 5, 2016)

I'm no marketing expert, nor do I own, run or otherwise manage anything to do with car sales but....
...if Audi were my company I would be asking why the heck they're offering the 3rd biggest finance contribution (only bigger on A7 and A8) on the relatively new, very well reviewed, desirable TT.

Don't get me wrong, I'll take it. But I would have bought the TTS even if it only had a few quid off. The TTS is cheaper than a Cayman, and far cheaper once you spec them both to a decent level. 
Why are they offering such attractive finance? Am I missing something?

Even the outgoing A5 has a lower contribution.

Madness, sack someone, heads must roll! (but in the meantime, get your orders in!)


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## gogs (Dec 22, 2010)

Regardless of the contribution I'm pretty sure their still making a pretty penny out of each sale 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 90TJM (Sep 30, 2013)

Perhaps its because they are not selling as well as expected.I read a while ago that sports car sales in general are 25% down in Europe.SUVs are the "must have" car at the moment.Look how many Q3/5s,X3/5s and Land Rovers there are.You wont get much discount on them.


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## ChrisH (Jul 19, 2007)

EvilTed said:


> I'm no marketing expert, nor do I own, run or otherwise manage anything to do with car sales but....
> ...if Audi were my company I would be asking why the heck they're offering the 3rd biggest finance contribution (only bigger on A7 and A8) on the relatively new, very well reviewed, desirable TT.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'll take it. But I would have bought the TTS even if it only had a few quid off. The TTS is cheaper than a Cayman, and far cheaper once you spec them both to a decent level.
> ...


Because TTS even after the 5k finance contribution it's still 4k more expensive than the similar engine/transmission Golf R which is much more popular, even though all of us on here prefer the TTS, of course.


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## EvilTed (Feb 5, 2016)

ChrisH said:


> Because TTS even after the 5k finance contribution it's still 4k more expensive than the similar engine/transmission Golf R which is much more popular, even though all of us on here prefer the TTS, of course.


Ok, that's an interesting point. For some reason I have never considered the Golf and the TT in the same class. The R only fleeting crossed my mind as an option when I was choosing this car. 
The VW and Audi money all ends up in the same pockets too so I'm not sure they'd be cutting Audi throats to steal sales from VW.

I guess this is another reason backing up 90TJM's point. Perhaps sales aren't as good as hoped.

Whatever the reason, I'm quite happy about it, even if I don't understand it.


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## ChrisH (Jul 19, 2007)

EvilTed said:


> ChrisH said:
> 
> 
> > Because TTS even after the 5k finance contribution it's still 4k more expensive than the similar engine/transmission Golf R which is much more popular, even though all of us on here prefer the TTS, of course.
> ...


Yes the sales are very lacking hence you can rank Audis in this situation by the amount of the finance contribution.
I dont think you can seriously compare a TTS with a Cayman S, whilst the latter is quite a bit more with the usual high price Porsche options it is in a different league with the mid engined flat 6. 
This is why the RS with that sweet 5 pot engine will be close very to 50k when it comes out and zero finance help or discount.


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## Jonnyy (Feb 12, 2016)

Worth mentioning also that the £5k contribution is only available on pcp finance. Pcp finance is designed to encourage repeat new car purchases + allows owners to own cars ordinarily out of their price range. Also the £5k deposit contribution is a quarter 1 2016 offer, so it is only available from 1st Jan till 31st March. Be interesting to see what it changes to in april. I believe before 1st Jan it was only £2k. Might also be worth noting VW group emissions issues and these high deposit contributions on VW group cars could be a way to minamise any drop in sales as a result of the emissions scandal.


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## EvilTed (Feb 5, 2016)

Little bit OT but these are the European sales figures for the TT 2012 to 2015

January	654 772 795 1.427
February	641 433 604 835
March	2.101	1.792	2.575	2.988
April 1.415	1.207	1.514	1.990
May 1.608	1.423	804 2.055
June 1.563	1.239	352 2.673
July 1.123	934 252 2.008
August	706 579 135 1.252
September	1.310	1.540	516 2.687
October	1.074	881 808 1.687
November	926 887 829 1.430
December	502 644 584 1.385

Given the big spikes in March and September I assume this is done by date of registration, not order date but then it doesn't explain anything as the discount Dec - March would be to combat a dip in registrations in April - June.....which there isn't.


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## EvilTed (Feb 5, 2016)

Jonnyy said:


> Might also be worth noting VW group emissions issues and these high deposit contributions on VW group cars could be a way to minamise any drop in sales as a result of the emissions scandal.


I completely forgot that. Good point, you'd expect it to apply to all ranges though.


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## ChrisH (Jul 19, 2007)

Jonnyy said:


> Worth mentioning also that the £5k contribution is only available on pcp finance. Pcp finance is designed to encourage repeat new car purchases + allows owners to own cars ordinarily out of their price range. Also the £5k deposit contribution is a quarter 1 2016 offer, so it is only available from 1st Jan till 31st March. Be interesting to see what it changes to in april. I believe before 1st Jan it was only £2k. Might also be worth noting VW group emissions issues and these high deposit contributions on VW group cars could be a way to minamise any drop in sales as a result of the emissions scandal.


Whilst the 5k deposit might well have been less in Q4 last year I believe the overall discount achievable was similar and the dealer has to contribute 50% of that so the discount they can offer is less. On the Golf R the deposit contribution is only 1,250 so VW are not offering as much as Audi. Probably because there are much higher margins on Audis v's VW, Seat, Skoda equivalent models but similar costs.


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## Ht1469 (Dec 12, 2015)

I think you will find the deals available in the last quarter were better than those currently being offered. Lots of buyers, like me got 24 to 26% of a built stock car. This amounted to over 10k of list price. For me the last quarter is always the best quarter to buy a car, especially when it is getting close to Christmas and dealers need to sell stock cars.


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## lofty (Apr 3, 2007)

Drive The Deal are doing just under £8k off a TTS, I think that makes it cheaper than the TTS I bought in 2008.


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

If you look at Orangewheels and Coast2Coast they are doing the same deals now that they were doing in late 2015. The current £5000 contribution amounts to the same as before, its just been dressed up differently. 
Roughly you can expect to get £6500 off a new TT using a broker now as you could in Dec 2015.
I did look at Orangewheels and spoke to a guy there who explained how it works with finance companies etc.


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## glund91 (Feb 13, 2016)

In the end I managed to get £8000 knocked off of my new TT factory ordered with a build time of a few months. I walked in and they offered £5000 there and then and all it took was me asking for an extra 3k and that was it, they had my order. I don't know what's going on but I'm not complaining. I'm 24 and upgrading from a fiesta st to a new TT


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## Jonnyy (Feb 12, 2016)

Hi glund91,
What model/spec did you go for? I never thought i'd b able to have a new TT so i went for the 1.8 sport with no extras at all to keep cost/monthly payment down but the dealer wouldnt give me any additional discount on top of the 5k deposit contribution. They wouldnt even fill the tank! So i can only assume there is more room for discounts/negotiation if you spec out a more expensive car??


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## glund91 (Feb 13, 2016)

Jonnyy said:


> Hi glund91,
> What model/spec did you go for? I never thought i'd b able to have a new TT so i went for the 1.8 sport with no extras at all to keep cost/monthly payment down but the dealer wouldnt give me any additional discount on top of the 5k deposit contribution. They wouldnt even fill the tank! So i can only assume there is more room for discounts/negotiation if you spec out a more expensive car??


2.0tfsi Sline Stronic Quattro, and with heated seats, reverse sensors, cruise control, super sports seats alcantara/leather and the Audi sound system. Originally only specced heated seats and cruise control and got them to knock about £70 a month off my finance, but the extras I added on have added another £30 pm. I just told them I was stuck between the looks of the TT and the practicality of a bmw m135i, so they beat the price to get me as a customer. They've been really good so far. I wanted to see if a TT would fit on my drive so they are giving me a TT for the day this Sunday to try it out for a few hours. Not sure what I will get, if anything, upon collection though Ie fuel


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## Jonnyy (Feb 12, 2016)

Wow sounds like you have a great dealer. Which dealer is it? I havent heard from mine at all since they took my holding deposit despite him telling me they would keep me updated on the build!


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## glund91 (Feb 13, 2016)

Blackburn Audi, it's the closest to where I live, and I think it's because I keep pestering him more than anything. I'm incredibly impatient with cars and usually get them within a couple of days of purchasing. This is the first time I will have had to wait for a full build so I'm going a little bit crazy haha.


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## Jonnyy (Feb 12, 2016)

Yes i am a bit the same. Usually only keep them for 18-24 months. Its why i have gone for pcp this time. When i get 18 months into this one i will maybe be braver and spec one higher for next time.


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## glund91 (Feb 13, 2016)

I went through 6 cars in 2 years, four of them being brand new. The fiesta st I have now I've had for 16 months which is the longest I've had a car. It's a bit stupid really which is why I'm doing this one properly, I've asked them to hold back the build so that I can save more on the deposit. Growing up is a pain sometimes ha


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## Jonnyy (Feb 12, 2016)

I have been driving 11 years and this will be my 7th car. Only ever had one m.o.t lol. Although the car i am trading in is due its 1st m.o.t on 22nd march so desperately hoping to collect the TT before then so i dont have to m.o.t it!


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## Blackhawk47 (Nov 26, 2012)

I couldn't wait a week for my new TT...let alone several months.  :lol: :twisted:


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## glund91 (Feb 13, 2016)

Part of me does feel I picked the worst car to be sensible and wait for. This is the kind of car you must have instantly for fear of becoming insane waiting to drive it.


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## Jonnyy (Feb 12, 2016)

Yeah for me its the opposite with the TT. I dont like waiting but if your goin to have to wait then a TT to the spec you want is def worth waiting for. Although i envy those who have found brand new stock cars available within a few days!


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## PJV997 (Dec 17, 2010)

EvilTed said:


> Don't get me wrong, I'll take it. But I would have bought the TTS even if it only had a few quid off. The TTS is cheaper than a Cayman, and far cheaper once you spec them both to a decent level.


Have to say we would probably have gone for a Cayman or Boxster if it weren't for the substantial discounts on the TT.

Based on list price, we figured about a £12K price difference between a high spec Boxster / Cayman and TTS. As we buy rather than lease and keep the car for a while, you would recoup a decent chunk of that £12K when buying the next car in 4 or 5 years. On that basis Porsche would have got our money.

But a negligible discount on a Porsche vs. nearly £8K discount on our TTS makes the difference c£19K and when taking off our part-ex, the cost to change is c£28K vs c£47K. Then the TTS became impossible to ignore!!


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

The discounts are not because the car is not selling, the numbers are actually well up on the MK2s numbers,. 
The issue is the car is not selling in the numbers Audi predicted/wanted....


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## Jonnyy (Feb 12, 2016)

Be interesting to compare discount achieved for each country as i believe audi, since the launch of the TT in mid 90's, has sold more TT's in the UK than anywhere else in the world. So would you think the discounts in other countries would be bigger to encourage an increase in sales in countries where the TT doesn't sell as well?


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## glund91 (Feb 13, 2016)

I personally can't believe I don't see more than I do on the road. They are one of the best looking cars available, and have been made even more so with every generation. The only car I would choose over the TT is the R8. Obviously is money wasn't an issue I'd be going for something more premium such as mclaren but for a daily driver for the average person I can't think of anything nicer than a TT. Been a long time dream of mine to own one


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## Mr R (Mar 1, 2015)

glund91 said:


> I personally can't believe I don't see more than I do on the road. They are one of the best looking cars available, and have been made even more so with every generation. The only car I would choose over the TT is the R8. Obviously is money wasn't an issue I'd be going for something more premium such as mclaren but for a daily driver for the average person I can't think of anything nicer than a TT. Been a long time dream of mine to own one


I think that leads to the question of what sort of person buys a TT? Not really a family car, so I guess its probably couples, single people...(?) and those with a bit of disposable cash that are willing to pay for the supposed premium badge.


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## glund91 (Feb 13, 2016)

I suppose you are right. I have a fiancé and I'm lucky enough that we both work and have our own cars so even if a young one does come along there is a second car and I wouldn't be forced to give my TT up. For those that only have one car with multiple children I guess it isn't practical at all. I'm 6ft 4 so no one is getting in the seat behind me, so it's essentially a 2.5 person car ha


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## jc74 (Jul 6, 2014)

Hi,

I'm considering a new or used mk3 TT S-Tronic amongst my short list of cars. I've been in negotiation with a VW dealer about a Golf Mk7 GTI DSG and with the discounts available for the TT (based spec coming in about £25k), I can get one for similar/less money than the Golf, at which point it is very hard to justify buying the Golf.

I am also considering a Mini Cooper S, and against with only a few thousand more I can get a heavily discounted TT. If the TT wasn't discounted so heavily, I'd rather pay a few thousand more and buy a new Porsche Boxster or a Jaguar F-Type. So for me anyway, the heavy discounting of the TT has made it a real contender.

Interestingly less than 1 year old used S-Tronic Quattro Mk3 TT are now available for around the £25k sticker price on the Audi website.

My main concern with the huge discounts would be the affect on residual values down the road.

For now, I'm deciding whether to pull the trigger or hold out for better deals after the March rush (I'm not in any hurry to buy and actually would prefer to get a July/Aug/Sep delivery).


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## Mr R (Mar 1, 2015)

jc74 said:


> My main concern with the huge discounts would be the affect on residual values down the road.


Definitely... I can see used car buyers getting really good deals on 3 year old cars, down the line.

I think this is one of the main benefits of buying on pcp...who cares what the final payment/guaranteed future value actually is, you haven't lost real hard cash if the value down the line is a lot lower than expected.


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## 90TJM (Sep 30, 2013)

Regarding a Cooper S,there are pre-reg cars around these days at a good discount.The wife got a pre-reg Cooper last year for £5K less than list,which at one time it was hard to get much off a MINI.With that in mind I thought about a pre-reg Cooper S or JCW.But decided on another TT in the end.I have lost more than I expected on my Mk2 but I bought that with a good discount
and finance contribution.I notice A1s are holding their value so an S1 could be a good buy.


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

Mr R said:


> jc74 said:
> 
> 
> > My main concern with the huge discounts would be the affect on residual values down the road.
> ...


Well you will have really as the GRV is normally set a fair bit below the actually expected value in 3 years time. The reason being is that this will leave a bit of equity in the car when the PCP ends which will help you with the deposit on another PCP car - thereby making it easy for customers to keep coming back and buying new cars every 3 years.
However if the true value has fallen badly then there won't be that equity in the car to put towards your next motor. So you do lose out.


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## jc74 (Jul 6, 2014)

90TJM said:


> Regarding a Cooper S,there are pre-reg cars around these days at a good discount.The wife got a pre-reg Cooper last year for £5K less than list,which at one time it was hard to get much off a MINI.With that in mind I thought about a pre-reg Cooper S or JCW.But decided on another TT in the end.I have lost more than I expected on my Mk2 but I bought that with a good discount
> and finance contribution.I notice A1s are holding their value so an S1 could be a good buy.


Yes I've noticed you can get a 6month/1yr old Cooper S (5 dr auto) for around £18k. However but shocking to read how dealers were offering people who had paid £20k (after discount) about £12.5k part-ex 6 months down the line. Also it's now the 3rd best selling car in the UK, which basically means residuals will probably be shot!

I'd love to get an Audi S1, however with half of my driving in heavy traffic, I really need an Automatic which they unfortunately do not do 

My intentions with PCP was to get the contribution and then withdraw from the agreement, thus giving me the flexibility to keep the car as long as I wanted and not pay the interest, so in this scenario residual are a concern (for me).

So my commute car to the station car park continues for now..
- new/nearly new Mini Cooper S, very nice car to drive, cheap to buy nearly new cheap running costs (low tax and 5 yr servicing pack), though questionable reliability and residuals (compared to previously).
- new/nearly new Audi TT, good looking, nice to drive (and as quick as my old Mk2 TTS), great deals at the moment. Questionable residuals in the future. Doors a bit long so potentially a pain in tight spaces.
- new Golf GTI, great all-rounder and practical (though already have a practical car in the family), bit dull to look at but not a bad thing since it won't stand out in the car park. Good deals, but still works out about same price as an Audi TT which just seems wrong!
- 1-2 year old BMW M135i, fun car to drive, V6. Can be had for around £20-25k. RWD so could be an issue if we get a touch of frost or even a little snow.
- 2-3 year old Jaguar F-Type, absolutely great car, fun to drive and best sounding V6 car by far. Also long doors and wide car might make it an issue. And it'll never get to warm up during my commute so probably not great for it . RWD so could be an issue if we get a touch of frost or even a little snow. However very expensive (~£40K) compared to a heavily discounted TT (though I would get definitely over a new TTS).

Not in the running after consideration:-
- Ford Fiesta ST - doesn't come in auto
- Audi S1 - doesn't come in auto
- 2-3 year old C63 - Great sounding car and fast. However didn't like the auto box on it at all and doesn't warm up until I've done the commute almost twice over. Oh and a little thirsty 

So as you can see, the huge discounts on the TT really does make it competitive (at least for me) in this mix of cars, and Audi absolute have done the right thing here since it's clearly under heavy consideration by me. (And I'm sure lots of other people too who wouldn't otherwise have been).


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Mr R said:


> glund91 said:
> 
> 
> > I personally can't believe I don't see more than I do on the road. They are one of the best looking cars available, and have been made even more so with every generation. The only car I would choose over the TT is the R8. Obviously is money wasn't an issue I'd be going for something more premium such as mclaren but for a daily driver for the average person I can't think of anything nicer than a TT. Been a long time dream of mine to own one
> ...


I sold the R8 as i needed 3 seats for the school run.

In terms of the Golf, i'd get many things before the golf.... the focus ST is a much better drivers car without a shadow of a doubt.


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## TTimi (Jan 26, 2016)

The M135i is a twin turbo straight 6, not a V6.


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## glund91 (Feb 13, 2016)

I was torn between the TT and a new M135i. The bmw was ridiculously quick and aggressive but i just personally think it looks dull and unattractive. On the drive home from ordering my new TT and I saw 7 1 series bmw in a 10 mile journey, compared to 0 TT. This is a big issue with my current car a fiesta st in spirit blue because they are just everywhere and I enjoy a degree of exclusivity.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

I think the word dull is an understatement... it's chunk from the goonies.. i just couldn't!


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## Jonnyy (Feb 12, 2016)

My current car is a white nissan juke and after having it a few months my next door neighbour bought a white nissan juke! You just dont do it lol. So since then i decided it was time to get something different and i am fairly confident i wont see many if any mk3 TT locally.


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## glund91 (Feb 13, 2016)

Jonnyy said:


> My current car is a white nissan juke and after having it a few months my next door neighbour bought a white nissan juke! You just dont do it lol. So since then i decided it was time to get something different and i am fairly confident i wont see many if any mk3 TT locally.


Yeah I was looking at an S3 but my neighbour has an A3 so pure common courtesy has made me decide against one. Turn out the TT was more than affordable anyway so it's work out well in my favour. Maybe good karma for not copying my neighbors car haha


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## Jonnyy (Feb 12, 2016)

I was looking at A3's. The deposit contributions on A3's are strange. £2500 on a 3 door but only £1000 on a 5 door lol. I had an A1 before the juke but the current finance deposit is only £500! 10 times less than TT! Thats on all A1's and S1's.


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## Weiss-Man (Nov 13, 2015)

Jonnyy said:


> My current car is a white nissan juke and after having it a few months my next door neighbour bought a white nissan juke! You just dont do it lol. So since then i decided it was time to get something different and i am fairly confident i wont see many if any mk3 TT locally.


Used to live next to someone just like that!!


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## 90TJM (Sep 30, 2013)

Got a White Kuga and White CRV next to me and at a glance they look the same.The CRV owner has not spoken much since
I got the Mk2 so it will be silence when the Mk3 arrives!


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## EvilTed (Feb 5, 2016)

Mr R said:


> glund91 said:
> 
> 
> > I personally can't believe I don't see more than I do on the road. They are one of the best looking cars available, and have been made even more so with every generation. The only car I would choose over the TT is the R8. Obviously is money wasn't an issue I'd be going for something more premium such as mclaren but for a daily driver for the average person I can't think of anything nicer than a TT. Been a long time dream of mine to own one
> ...


I don't think it's that easy to classify.
I'm a father of two football mad young boys (9 and 7) so I definitely don't fit in those categories yet I've bought a TTS. 
Why? Because my wife has a discovery and we use that for family jobs. My car only needs to manage the family (or indeed more than just me and one other) in emergencies.

To answer someone elses point later in the thread too - That's why I bought the TT over the Cayman or the F-type. There's a huge difference between strictly only 2 seats and 2+2.


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

If you want real madness have a look at the SLK - Mercedes are offering a £9262 deposit contribution.


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## ChadW (May 2, 2003)

The madness helped me loads. Went down the PCP route for the first time ever to get the best discounts on top of the car wow one.

Got just under 7k off new car and will pull out of PCP in about 2 months time and get a 'non secured' loan which is what I was originally going to do.


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## jeffgottaaudi (Feb 21, 2016)

I've just ordered a Daytona Grey TTS to replace my SLK. I got £7,000 off the price of the Audi, but was offered a dealer contribution of £10,000 to stay with Mercedes. I got £7,000 off the SLK three years ago. The facelifted SLC accounts for the increased dealer contribution on the SLK.


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## ChrisH (Jul 19, 2007)

ChadW said:


> The madness helped me loads. Went down the PCP route for the first time ever to get the best discounts on top of the car wow one.
> 
> Got just under 7k off new car and will pull out of PCP in about 2 months time and get a 'non secured' loan which is what I was originally going to do.


Hi ChadW,

Assuming you got 4.9% APR on your PCP I wouldn't see any point on getting out of it yet into a non-secured loan (at best 3.5% APR) as the payments will be much higher pm and the PCP final payment could well be higher than the SIV of the car in the early months of the PCP. Suggest you get the settlement figure first as you maybe in for a surprise. Just my 3p worth


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## no name (Feb 16, 2014)

ZephyR2 said:


> If you want real madness have a look at the SLK - Mercedes are offering a £9262 deposit contribution.


My neighbor got some silly discount on his SLK, I thought he was joking at first til I researched a little.


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## ChadW (May 2, 2003)

ChrisH said:


> ChadW said:
> 
> 
> > The madness helped me loads. Went down the PCP route for the first time ever to get the best discounts on top of the car wow one.
> ...


Hi mate

That is what I am doing here, getting and paying off the PCP settlement figure after a couple of months using another personal unsecured loan which will probably be over less time too, of course the monthly payment will be higher but at least the car is 'mine' and not secured on anything plus I have more control over paying back, it is not PCP based just a normal personal loan as such.


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## no name (Feb 16, 2014)

I heard if you settle too soon or resell they can demand some of the contributions back?


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## Dreams1966 (Oct 27, 2014)

placeborick said:


> I heard if you settle too soon or resell they can demand some of the contributions back?


No, finance companies aren't allowed to do that.

http://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/what-is-d ... on-asktce/


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## ChrisH (Jul 19, 2007)

ChadW said:


> ChrisH said:
> 
> 
> > ChadW said:
> ...


Hi Chad W,

Understood, I know what you mean. Call VWFS for a settlement figure as it will be higher than the figure shown on the PCP agrmt so you will end up re-financing a higher amount than you started with as the PCP deposit you put down is then lost. 
It would be better to wait IMO.


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## Jonnyy (Feb 12, 2016)

i believe ChadW's settlement/withdrawing figure would be the "amount of credit" shown on his agreement/pcp finance calculator. This would be the price of the car minus dealer deposit and customer deposit. Your monthly payments on a pcp is all interest, i.e your monthly payments don't reduce the balance, a bit like an interest only mortgage. So i believe at whatever point ChadW settles during the term of the agreement his settlement figure should stay the same. The only difference is if you "settle" (end the agreement after 14 days) there are penalties and fees, which i think is 1 months interest or 1 monthly payment, maybe both. However if he "withdrew" (ends the agreement within 14 days) then settlement figure would be the same still but minus any penalties + you wouldn't have made any pcp monthly payments either. 
So long story short, If you are financing via pcp purely to get the £5k deposit contribution and you intend to own/keep the car then it makes most financial sense to "withdraw" from the agreement with in 14 days even if you get a personal loan to pay off the settlement figure. Assuming the interest rate of the loan is sensible. Audi TT pcp apr is 6.8%, so most with a good credit rating should beat that with the current low personal loan interest rates really.

But i definitely agree with ChrisH, about contacting Audi finance to confirm all of this before proceeding to be sure. I emailed them about it a few weeks ago but i think i must have deleted the email, so i am writing this trying to remember accurately its content.


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## jc74 (Jul 6, 2014)

Jonnyy said:


> i believe ChadW's settlement/withdrawing figure would be the "amount of credit" shown on his agreement/pcp finance calculator. This would be the price of the car minus dealer deposit and customer deposit. Your monthly payments on a pcp is all interest, i.e your monthly payments don't reduce the balance, a bit like an interest only mortgage. So i believe at whatever point ChadW settles during the term of the agreement his settlement figure should stay the same. The only difference is if you "settle" (end the agreement after 14 days) there are penalties and fees, which i think is 1 months interest or 1 monthly payment, maybe both. However if he "withdrew" (ends the agreement within 14 days) then settlement figure would be the same still but minus any penalties + you wouldn't have made any pcp monthly payments either.
> So long story short, If you are financing via pcp purely to get the £5k deposit contribution and you intend to own/keep the car then it makes most financial sense to "withdraw" from the agreement with in 14 days even if you get a personal loan to pay off the settlement figure. Assuming the interest rate of the loan is sensible. Audi TT pcp apr is 6.8%, so most with a good credit rating should beat that with the current low personal loan interest rates really.
> 
> But i definitely agree with ChrisH, about contacting Audi finance to confirm all of this before proceeding to be sure. I emailed them about it a few weeks ago but i think i must have deleted the email, so i am writing this trying to remember accurately its content.


I did this when I bought an Audi S5 Sportback last year. I got £4k deposit contribution (along with a further 4k discount), and "withdrew" within the 14 days. You get to keep the deposit contribution but have to pay up the outstanding balance within I believe it was 28 days - they will tell you the details when you phone up. I ended up paying something like £14 interest over the few days I had their PCP agreement for. Have a google search on the topic, it's fairly common practice.
Note do not "settle" within the 14 days, it's not quite the same as "withdraw", since the technical term withdraw is something within the EU rulings. Also Withdraw is only permitted for loan amounts under around 60k (not a problem for most TT models I would assume!).

Definitely recommended if you're in a position to either pay off or re-finance on better terms.


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## Jonnyy (Feb 12, 2016)

Yep. I have even read forum posts where customers have been recommended to do this by their dealers. The only thing is the dealers usually tell you you need to wait a couple of months to settle. They do this ensure they get their kickback/commission/bonus from the finance company for arranging the finance. But you are financially better off withdrawing + you have a legal right to withdraw within 14 days.


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## Jonnyy (Feb 12, 2016)

Hi Jc74

Was the outstanding balance the price of the car minus any discounts (£4k dealer contribution and £4k extra discount you got) minus any deposit you may have put down on top the £8k discount?? + the £14 interest too lol.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, I'm sure alot of the initial prices are purposely inflated, so offering a discount after a few months tempts even more people to buy, thinking they have saved lots of £££s. 
Hoggy.


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

Yeah everyone loves a bargain, even when it's not a bargain. 

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## ChadW (May 2, 2003)

My PCP does not have any early repayment fees. 

Plus I have spare cash now to go towards the balance too, so with that in mind I will expect to be paying a few months interest less than the overall credit to payback figure (the balance) to close the PCP. Probably in a months time now.

Can get a non secured personal loan at a rate a lot less than 4.6% no probs. due to credit rating so no worries there.


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## jc74 (Jul 6, 2014)

Jonnyy said:


> Hi Jc74
> 
> Was the outstanding balance the price of the car minus any discounts (£4k dealer contribution and £4k extra discount you got) minus any deposit you may have put down on top the £8k discount?? + the £14 interest too lol.


Not quite sure from the wording exactly what you're asking. But to provide a bit more info. With my intentions known up front, I chose the highest possible upfront deposit (50%), shortest term (2 years), lowest mileage (5000). Including the options, the all out cash equivalent was something like £40k after discounts (£48k prior to discounts and £44k after discount but before deposit contribution)
Because the max deposit was 50%. I ended up having to pay something like £22k deposit. The dealer then paid £4k towards that deposit, leaving me to fork out £18k. I paid £1k up front to secure the deal. And on delivery day, I traded in my Mk2 TTS forward valued at £25k.
So on day of pick up, I took the car and a cheque for £8k (£1k+£25k-£18k)
I then phoned up, withdrew, and then was given something like 30 days to cough up the £22k which was on finance + £14 interest.
So overall I paid:-
£1k (initial securing of deal)
£25k (the part exchange)
£22k (outstanding finance)
-£8k (cheque I received)
Net paid out = £40k (plus the £14 interest).

Looking at the post, the maths isn't trivial - but worth the effort!


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## ChrisH (Jul 19, 2007)

ChadW said:


> My PCP does not have any early repayment fees.
> 
> Plus I have spare cash now to go towards the balance too, so with that in mind I will expect to be paying a few months interest less than the overall credit to payback figure (the balance) to close the PCP. Probably in a months time now.
> 
> Can get a non secured personal loan at a rate a lot less than 4.6% no probs. due to credit rating so no worries there.


Hi ChadW,

There seems to be a lot of confusion over this. The settlement amount in the early months is not the same as the final balloon payment amount in the agreement, it is quite a bit more less they rebate the interest for the months unused. Suggest you call VWFS and see what the figures are at the moment.

As to the interest rate at those levels 3-6% the payments are far less with a PCP as you pay interest only whereas with a loan or HP they forward load the interest on to the sum borrowed and divide by the months so its a lot more per month. If you're planning on getting another car in 2-3 years time a PCP offers the lowest monthly spent.


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## Jonnyy (Feb 12, 2016)

Hi Jc74
This is exactly what i have done. 50% deposit, 24 months & 5000 miles. Yes i think you answered my question, that is the withdraw balance to pay is the same as the "amount of credit" shown on the pcp agreement. This balance never chages during the term of the pcp. So whenever your pay it off the figure is the same. But ChadW is better doing as you have done because if you withdraw you avoid paying any pcp monthly payments & any settlement fees (apart from a few days interest) which you would pay on top of your balance.
This advice is for people wanting to own their car & keep the dealer contribution btw though + the balance (amount of credit) isnt the same as the baloon payment no. Although in jc74 case and mine they are almost the same as we have put 50% deposit down.


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## ChadW (May 2, 2003)

ChrisH said:


> ChadW said:
> 
> 
> > My PCP does not have any early repayment fees.
> ...


Hi mate

Yes I am well aware Thanks that I will be paying a bit more than the balloon itself, it will be a figure between the overall credit given with is £1.1k more in this case and the balloon itself. Checked that with the dealer on the day I picked it up. 

Can see that some people like PCPs if they change car a lot but I like to owe money on items that are mine and not secured. Ok Mortgage is pushing it but that is the one thing I can let go.  Just down to personal preference there but like I said went doen the PCP route to get the discounts in the first place. Due to good credit rating can get a decent personal loan which may be less than the average borrower. 8)

Just realized I said in the Buyers Age thread that talking about financial matters on a public forum is not good but then again not giving away exact figures here, plus if it helps others buying their cars then why not.


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## ChrisH (Jul 19, 2007)

Hi ChadW,

Yes, settlement amount is quite a lot more than the balloon figure and people don't realise that, infact when I checked mine it was not much less than the trade in value of the car.

As to paying back the loan instead of the interest I prefer the PCP route for cars with typical depreciation as you are only paying the interest per month like on a lease car but you can buy it at the end if the trade in is more than the balloon.


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## Jonnyy (Feb 12, 2016)

Yes definately worth hightlighting again that the baloon payment and settlement figure are 2 different things.


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

ChrisH said:


> Hi ChadW,
> 
> Yes, settlement amount is quite a lot more than the balloon figure and people don't realise that, infact when I checked mine it was not much less than the trade in value of the car.
> 
> As to paying back the loan instead of the interest I prefer the PCP route for cars with typical depreciation as you are only paying the interest per month like on a lease car but you can buy it at the end if the trade in is more than the balloon.


But don't forget that you are also paying interest on the balloon figure. You are effectively borrowing that amount of money from the finance company for the term of the PCP and are paying interest on a non-decreasing sum.


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## Dreams1966 (Oct 27, 2014)

Afternoon all,

I think there is some good advice on here, but possibly also some slight misconceptions.

There is talk of PCP being akin to an interest only mortgage and that you make no capital repayments through the monthly payments. This I understand to be false. Essentially on two fronts... firstly a £400 pm PCP payment on an interest only basis would mean financing circa £80,000 at 6% and that would be a lot of expensive options added to the list... Secondly, the fact that the final optional payment is a lot less than the initial amount financed must mean that some of the debt has been cleared during the term.

It is correct that you will pay more in total over the term of a PCP deal if you buy the car at the end versus a similar interest rate and term loan/HP arrangement, as the monthly payments are lower (less capital being chipped away) and the 'balloon' payment has not been decreasing over the years, therefore meaning more interest is paid as the balance is higher for longer. PCP offers different benefits, essentially more flexibility on giving the car back, trading in any equity etc etc and the biggest attraction being... lower monthly costs from day 1.

There's no right or wrong way to buy a car... horses for courses and everyone will like the different benefits of the various routes available.

One things for sure... whatever route you take the car will depreciate and it seems to take a VERY long time from ordering to the shiny beast arriving on the driveway.  #isitmarchyet????


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## ChadW (May 2, 2003)

ZephyR2 said:


> ChrisH said:
> 
> 
> > Hi ChadW,
> ...


Exactly with my trade in I paid the maximum deposit possible my balloon payment is 17k this will always be 17k, the total credit figure overall comes to 18.1k so when I settle it will be a figure between those values. No where near the price of the car that I paid after discount never mind the market value itself. So happy to settle in a months time.  My personal loan could end up being as low as 10K anyhow depending on the spare cash I can throw at this in a months time (some unexpected family inheritance). All worked out quite well really.


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## TortToise (Aug 22, 2009)

ChrisH said:


> Whilst the 5k deposit might well have been less in Q4 last year I believe the overall discount achievable was similar and the dealer has to contribute 50% of that so the discount they can offer is less. On the Golf R the deposit contribution is only 1,250 so VW are not offering as much as Audi. Probably because there are much higher margins on Audis v's VW, Seat, Skoda equivalent models but similar costs.


You can get very good discounts on the purchase price of the Golf R - I got something like 12% at the time I ordered and even if I had taken finance there was no contribution available then. This was also just before Audi saw sense with TT pricing and started offering good deals.

Generally they make back the 'finance contribution' by not giving you as good a discount off the purchase price. It's all swings and roundabouts and the dealer will simply tinker with the numbers to make sure they get their margin.

I'd say that current TT 'real OTR' pricing reflects common sense and is what they should have offered in the first place. Unfortunately, it took a year or so of below forecast sales to make Audi wise up.


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## tonymar (Jun 1, 2013)

you can now obtain over 20% discount on a well speced TTS on a pcp deal of 6.8% , and if you choose pay it off within 14 days inpart with an unsecured loan below 3.4 %
a 2-3 yr old mk3 TTS will always obtain strong residules because it will always be a fantastic sought after car (in the right colour)

Audi are offering even bigger crazier discounts on the excellent A7 sportback (but they lose big money 3 yrs down the line)


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## RussB (Dec 23, 2015)

Wonder what the highest contribution is on a new built to order is?
I got £7K off the config price of £42K.
TDI SLine with custom paint and lots of options.


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## PJV997 (Dec 17, 2010)

We got just under £7,800 off a configure price of £47,800


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

I got £7k off a configured price of £35.5k OTR which seems OK.


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## EvilTed (Feb 5, 2016)

It's hard to compare absolute numbers but I'm starting to get a sense that across the TT range the discounting %age seems fairly similar.

If you are getting/got:
20%+ You are a legendary negotiator or happened to be around when the stars aligned for some reason. Be very happy.
18-20% You probably worked pretty darned hard and got yourself a really good discount. Be happy.
16-18% You got the top end of the relatively easily achieved dealer discounts. Be happy.
10-16% Standard "walk in and ask for it" discounting. these are still good so...be happy.
<10% You didn't even try, did you? Perhaps you're so rich you don't care. be happy!


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## no name (Feb 16, 2014)

I think there is a bit of snobbery when it comes to buying cars whereby cash buyers think they're holier than the PCP buyers.

Truth is you lose a tonne of money either way. I'm not gonna do the maths :?

I just prefer my money to be in my bank so if the shit ever hits the fan my assets aren't tied up in vehicles.


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## PJV997 (Dec 17, 2010)

EvilTed said:


> It's hard to compare absolute numbers but I'm starting to get a sense that across the TT range the discounting %age seems fairly similar.
> 
> If you are getting/got:
> 20%+ You are a legendary negotiator or happened to be around when the stars aligned for some reason. Be very happy.
> ...


Reflecting on comments on the thread - where I think real value comes from the TT is if you go for a basic car - with the contributions a £20-£21K car looks achievable. That would be a pretty formidable competitor to other cars in that bracket.


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## EvilTed (Feb 5, 2016)

I'd agree with that. the 5k contribution on a basic spec 1.8 sport at RRP £27150 means you are starting negotiations with an 18.4% discount.


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## ChrisH (Jul 19, 2007)

placeborick said:


> I think there is a bit of snobbery when it comes to buying cars whereby cash buyers think they're holier than the PCP buyers.
> 
> Truth is you lose a tonne of money either way. I'm not gonna do the maths :?
> 
> I just prefer my money to be in my bank so if the shit ever hits the fan my assets aren't tied up in vehicles.


I totally agree with your last two points, especially for those whose earnings / savings are small or needed for other things a PCP is a great solution. I was told by my Audi salesman that 80% of their new car customers go down the PCP route. 
Let's face it the new car reg. figures would be no where near the current levels without PCP finance.


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## tonymar (Jun 1, 2013)

Is a relatively top spec TTS a 46-47,000 pound car ? some people would say not, but would agree its a 37-38,000 pound car hence the 20% discount


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## RussB (Dec 23, 2015)

ZephyR2 said:


> I got £7k off a configured price of £35.5k OTR which seems OK.


was this showroom available car or did you order it with your own options.
If so I am feeling slightly hard done by as it seems 20% off config price is the norm.
seems like I got just under 17%?
I thought this was a good deal as my local people refused to better this even by a few hundred.
I need to look at my figures again as I am travelling 1000 miles (roundtrip) for this deal.
If i can do better without travelling so far then excellent.


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## EvilTed (Feb 5, 2016)

RussB said:


> ZephyR2 said:
> 
> 
> > I got £7k off a configured price of £35.5k OTR which seems OK.
> ...


I wouldn't go as far as to say 20% is the norm. I think on a very specific model (generally the cheaper end of the range) 20% is achievable but the stars have to align and you have to work hard for it. I would say anything in the 16-18% range is "norm" especially as you start to go up the price range as the %age effect of the deposit contribution reduces.


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

RussB said:


> ZephyR2 said:
> 
> 
> > I got £7k off a configured price of £35.5k OTR which seems OK.
> ...


17% is a good deal - don't start feeling bad about it. What deal you get is often just down to the luck of the draw. There will always be someone who has, or claims to have had, a better deal. Ignore them all.  
Mine is a factory order with quite a few extras. What deal you can get depends upon when you order - month end / quarter end, how many sales your dealership / salesman has managed recently, whether the moon is in conjunction with Jupiter and so on. Probably what model you go for plays a part too.
I set my goal by what I could achieve using on-line brokers and then tried to equal or better that.

You also have to consider what people are being offered for their trade in cars. They might have got a lot off the new car at the expense of being offered rock bottom price on their part-ex.


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## PJV997 (Dec 17, 2010)

RussB said:


> ZephyR2 said:
> 
> 
> > I got £7k off a configured price of £35.5k OTR which seems OK.
> ...


I can't remember the exact mechanics but the dealership I ordered through had a set % discount they would give off the RRP of any TT including extras for the quarter to 31 March, and the dealer 'contribution' of £2,500 was part of this amount. Then there was a flat £2,500 discount for using Audi finance. On a £28,000 car, the Audi finance contribution equates to 9%, on a £48,000 car it's just 5%. So I would say on a cheaper car, with their approach, over 20% is possible at the lower end of the range, but not on a highly specced TTS.


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## jc74 (Jul 6, 2014)

After lots of indecision, and two weeks of various haggling, I finally came to a decision and placed my order!

Managed to grab about 21% off a factory build TT Quattro Sport STronic with Parking sensors and cruise control for May/June delivery.

As others have said, the discount works much better percentage-wise with a cheaper car due to the fixed discount of the £5000 deposit contribution.


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## leopard (May 1, 2015)

EvilTed said:


> It's hard to compare absolute numbers but I'm starting to get a sense that across the TT range the discounting %age seems fairly similar.
> 
> If you are getting/got:
> 20%+ You are a legendary negotiator or happened to be around when the stars aligned for some reason. Be very happy.
> ...


I love stuff like this :lol:


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## leopard (May 1, 2015)

jc74 said:


> After lots of indecision, and two weeks of various haggling, I finally came to a decision and placed my order!
> 
> Managed to grab about 21% off a factory build TT Quattro Sport STronic with Parking sensors and cruise control for May/June delivery.
> 
> As others have said, the discount works much better percentage-wise with a cheaper car due to the fixed discount of the £5000 deposit contribution.


Well done,that makes you a legendary negotiater


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## jc74 (Jul 6, 2014)

leopard said:


> Well done,that makes you a legendary negotiater


 

However, anyone picking up one of those drivethedeal roadsters will be getting over 30% off list price and they don't even need to negotiate - what do that make them?! Lazy legendary negotiators? :lol:


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

jc74 said:


> leopard said:
> 
> 
> > Well done,that makes you a legendary negotiater
> ...


Err .... lucky bastards. 

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## tonymar (Jun 1, 2013)

Towards the end of march is probably one of the best times to negotiate a deal as at a lot of dealerships this is the end of their financial year and the time when the big bosses get their very juicy bonuses on cars sold that year


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## SamoaChris (Jun 24, 2014)

Mr R said:


> glund91 said:
> 
> 
> > I personally can't believe I don't see more than I do on the road. They are one of the best looking cars available, and have been made even more so with every generation. The only car I would choose over the TT is the R8. Obviously is money wasn't an issue I'd be going for something more premium such as mclaren but for a daily driver for the average person I can't think of anything nicer than a TT. Been a long time dream of mine to own one
> ...


And semi-retired folks like me who just buy one for fun and holidays/trips!

You still need a sensible second car though, hence the Yeti, though my wife still has her Mini Cooper S.


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## EvilTed (Feb 5, 2016)

jc74 said:


> leopard said:
> 
> 
> > Well done,that makes you a legendary negotiater
> ...


I think that puts them squarely in the "happened to be there when the stars aligned" bracket.


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## mjhamilton (Apr 26, 2011)

SamoaChris said:


> Mr R said:
> 
> 
> > glund91 said:
> ...


I am looking at one at the moment - family man with 2 kids and already have a 5 seater.... bit of fun mainly


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