# Brakes and what to do.



## Sd TT (Jan 6, 2016)

Hi all, 
Got a slight dilemma with my brakes. So I'm running std calipers with EBC blue pads with turbo disc on the front and ebc yellow pads, turbo discs in the rear. Oh and upgraded 5.1 dot fluid, added ttrs ducts, braided lines and removed back plates to get more cooling going on. This has been a good set up as a simple upgrade from std and dare say for anyone starting or looking for an improved stopping power, with much reduced brake fade, for fast road or track it's all that's needed

However, I've turned the discs blue, and now need new pads and discs.

Do I replace like for like or look at upgrading?

I don't want to change wheels, tyres so sticking with 18" wheels and I'm not about to spend £1000s on Brembo kits. I also understand making the car lighter will massively help, but this needs to stay road going with passengers, but I do want to look at alternatives.

Any thoughts?


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

Ditch the EBC, they don't have a great rep. They're a bit of a 'show' pad and have had various problems with performance and lifespan over the years.

OEM front discs will be absolutely fine, no need for any fancy discs, spend the money on the best pads you can afford. Some pads to look at if these are your first serious pads;

Mintex M1144 or M1166
Ferodo DS3000
Carbotech XP8 or XP10

Once you've played with these on track you'll find they won't fade badly, but if you want a bit more stopping power (Coefficient of Friction) then look to move onto;

Mintex F-series (F2r F4r etc.)
Ferodo DS1.11 or DSUNO
Carbotech XP12

None of them are cheap but all will perform better the EBC Blue


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## 1781cc (Jan 25, 2015)

Adding to what Nick said, I would skip the Mintex M1144 straight away, I tracked them for 7 events before switching to the DS3000s and the change was night and day, the pads are head and shoulders above the Mintex, the can squeal a little when cold but still bite hard.


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## Sd TT (Jan 6, 2016)

Nick G,

that's interesting you suggest std discs and calipers, I wasn't expecting that, thought big disc kits was going to be people's comments or some Porsche calliper.

Also interesting you mention life span on ebc. I only get 2 - 3 track days (dependant on track) out of a set. Performance seem to be ok, well way better than what was in there before, but having not tried anything else yet, always interested in better stopping power.

So you recon std disc are ok??? The last time I had std discs they suffered really bad fade and were ready for the bin after one track day, although thinking that could also have been the pad and old discs???

Might have to look at mintex. I used them when I raced and got on quite well with them, although different pads, I found mintex gave me the better feel than some others.

So what do you guys have as a set up??


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

1781cc said:


> Adding to what Nick said, I would skip the Mintex M1144 straight away, I tracked them for 7 events before switching to the DS3000s and the change was night and day, the pads are head and shoulders above the Mintex, the can squeal a little when cold but still bite hard.


Yeah only difference being a considerable price difference! The M1166's can be had for £100 a set whereas the DS3000 are £200+ a set. If money is tight, you'll spend the same on EBC pads as the M1166's can be had for, so go down that route.

What I mean is, the M1144/M1166's are a solid pad for the money and will give consistent braking (my fronts didn't fade even when they were being asked to do 100% of the braking!). They aren't however the best you can buy as 1781cc says!

If you're happy to spend £200 on a set then DS3000 or Carbotechs all the way!



Sd TT said:


> Nick G,
> 
> that's interesting you suggest std discs and calipers, I wasn't expecting that, thought big disc kits was going to be people's comments or some Porsche calliper.
> 
> ...


Yeah solid discs are absolutely fine, it's the pads that would have been fading, stick a new set of OEM quality discs on for about £70 and which ever pad choice you can afford and you will have decent levels of braking and little to no fade!

I've got a set of Boxster calipers to go on mine, however these will be using the same 312mm OEM discs and decent pads. The reason for this change will be mainly unsprung weight saving at 3kg a corner, with a little more pedal feel.

If you want to go serious then of course you can go all out with a BBK of some description... you can spend a lot of money and imo for trackdays you can get more then enough stopping power from the pad upgrade and a consistent pedal every time and on road legal semi-slick tyres you'll be able to get the ABS going.

If racing then yeah, you will benefit from 350mm+ 2-piece discs with 4-pot calipers and see your braking power increased a bit and the ability to lock up even with a set of slicks!

Horses for courses, that's my motto!


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## 1781cc (Jan 25, 2015)

Standard discs, DS3000s all round, standard callipers, braided hoses, high boil fluid, thats it.

I am 6 trackdays into the DS3000s and I recon they can do maybe 3 more before being replaced, and I am as hard as I can be on the brakes, they hold up well. I'm not going to bother with Brembos or vmaxx brakes until I am well over the 300bhp mark, there literally is no point IMO.

Seriously though, I cant comment on the M1166, but the 1144s will be a step back from the DS2500s


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## Sd TT (Jan 6, 2016)

Ok now I'm in the land of heart or head.

Heart = Porsche calliper big disc pads go with, or 
Head = std stuff except spend money on pads.

Decisions decisions.

Think I'm going to go with head to start with. When I raced there was a golden rule, 'only change one thing at a time!' That way answers can be found, oh and much cheaper. Looked for Porsche calipers and they're not cheap even on eBay.

So Sounds like ds30000 get your vote. any thoughts on best place to get them from or just look up on the internet.

Might have to go to the auto sport show see what's there.


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## 1781cc (Jan 25, 2015)

I ordered them through Demon Thieves (demon tweaks) because I knew they had them in stock and the prices were comparable to anywhere else I looked. If you can get braided hoses and some new brembo discs from ECP (use a code) and high boil fluid you'll be laughing


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

1781cc said:


> I ordered them through Demon Thieves (demon tweaks) because I knew they had them in stock and the prices were comparable to anywhere else I looked. If you can get braided hoses and some new brembo discs from ECP (use a code) and high boil fluid you'll be laughing


Nearly up there with HalFrauds!



Sd TT said:


> Ok now I'm in the land of heart or head.
> 
> Heart = Porsche calliper big disc pads go with, or
> Head = std stuff except spend money on pads.
> ...


I think that will be the right choice, for the sake of a set of brake pads, you aren't going to lose anything for trying them and if happy, you'll save a fortune over the cost of a BBK!


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## Sd TT (Jan 6, 2016)

1781cc said:


> I ordered them through Demon Thieves (demon tweaks) because I knew they had them in stock and the prices were comparable to anywhere else I looked. If you can get braided hoses and some new brembo discs from ECP (use a code) and high boil fluid you'll be laughing


Cool I'll have a look at them. I've got the braided hoses and high boil point fluid. Just need the pads and discs. Might also have to look at a way of getting some cooling in there too, as they're turning blue.

Nickg as you say haven't lost anything in trying this as step one.


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## 1781cc (Jan 25, 2015)

these are good for cooling and easy to fit:

http://www.thettshop.co.uk/performance. ... duct=60001


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## FJ1000 (Nov 21, 2015)

Sd TT - what brake fluid are you using?

That can have a huge impact on brake performance on track.

Handy table of wet and dry boiling points for some different brake fluids:










+1 for carbotech pads

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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

FJ1000 said:


> Sd TT - what brake fluid are you using?
> 
> That can have a huge impact on brake performance on track.
> 
> ...


The Castrol SRF seems epic, such a high wet boiling point... then you see the price.... £50/litre!!!

I use Anglo American Oils R600+ as VT gave me a great local supplier at £10 for a 500ml bottle. Figures are very similar to RBF600.

https://aaoil.co.uk/product/r-600-racing-brake-fluid/


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

The Gulf Competition RF1000 fluid seems like a good option too, 325 degree dry BP 204 degree wet BP.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gulf-Com...265780?hash=item2a33000534:g:NQsAAMXQVT9S1~Ae

Anyone tried it? £13 a bottle delivered is pretty decent for that spec!


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## Sd TT (Jan 6, 2016)

1781cc said:


> these are good for cooling and easy to fit:
> 
> http://www.thettshop.co.uk/performance. ... duct=60001


Already fitted those thanks. And I've even taken the back plates off, those behind the disc, in an attempt to cool more.

Nick g I run 'super blue' but looking at your table might have to look at a change. Great info btw.

Just been looking at ds3000 and notice they aren't any good for on road, and I assume that's because of the operating temp they need before becoming effective. What are they like cold???


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## 1781cc (Jan 25, 2015)

Sd TT said:


> 1781cc said:
> 
> 
> > these are good for cooling and easy to fit:
> ...


I've never had any issues on the road, but I dont go haring it up to the track when I drive the car there. Its about balance, you cant have it both ways, even with porsche callipers, if the pads are too aggressive you'll suffer on the road, if they arent aggressive enough you'll suffer on track. If you drive normally with occasional heavy braking you'll be fine, read the road, conditions and traffic. But if you street race like a tw*t you'll probably hit something because the brakes arent hot enough.

If you live in milton keynes, by the time you get from one side of the town to the other the DS3000s will be at operating temp anyways, lol


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## Sd TT (Jan 6, 2016)

> I've never had any issues on the road, but I dont go haring it up to the track when I drive the car there. Its about balance, you cant have it both ways, even with porsche callipers, if the pads are too aggressive you'll suffer on the road, if they arent aggressive enough you'll suffer on track. If you drive normally with occasional heavy braking you'll be fine, read the road, conditions and traffic. But if you street race like a tw*t you'll probably hit something because the brakes arent hot enough.
> 
> If you live in milton keynes, by the time you get from one side of the town to the other the DS3000s will be at operating temp anyways, lol


Totally understand I can't have both and didn't expect both, just as long as when on the road they do work, on my daily commute.


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## poghead (Apr 19, 2013)

Can anyone recommend which braided hoses to get? STD 225,

Pog

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## Rob180bhp (Oct 8, 2017)

I find the standard brakes borderline dangerous on the road especially on 1st application after cruising when they are probably cold
Not as bad once warm but even then I don't think I could rely on them to stop me in an emergency

So I'm looking for pad ideas also

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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

poghead said:


> Can anyone recommend which braided hoses to get? STD 225,
> 
> Pog
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


HEL are always good;

http://www.cbauto-solutions.com/hel-braided-hose-lines



Rob180bhp said:


> I find the standard brakes borderline dangerous on the road especially on 1st application after cruising when they are probably cold
> Not as bad once warm but even then I don't think I could rely on them to stop me in an emergency
> 
> So I'm looking for pad ideas also
> ...


If you are just on the road, then a Mintex M1144 or Ferodo DS2500 would do just fine and offer a better upgrade then standard pads. Both have plenty of cold bite.


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## poghead (Apr 19, 2013)

Ended up ordering Goodridge braided lines for a touch under £80. With higher temp brake fluid do I need to consider new seals or do the stocks hold up well? Going to stick with standard disks as mine are pretty new but replace fronts pads with the DS3000's, while I'm there is it worth doing the rear pads too as again they're OEM but new as of 500 miles?

Pog

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## 1781cc (Jan 25, 2015)

I have standard discs front and rear, standard seals as well, no issues.

I did front and rears in DS3000s, but mine is track only aside from powering to the actual track, rear brakes dont do as much as the front, maybe see how you get on, but if you can afford to, do the rear pads


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