# Whats your thoughts?



## Westys (Jan 25, 2007)

Will let everyone know the outcome.


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## Stub (Mar 17, 2005)

What a C*nt!

Well he wont get anymore customers off here!

The prob is the more you leave it with them the more shite they will cause, get a tow truck to go pick it up and take it to VAGTECH, get them to do a report on it, you could take it leagal but it would be major hassle to prove IMO, best off like when The TT shop f*ked me over to take it else where and have done with it!


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## jbell (May 15, 2006)

I would think it is down to MRC and Backdraft as this problem is a result of their work and the technician ragging the hell out of your car after you specifically told him not to :evil: :evil:


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

Sorry to hear your tale of woe -

I'm suprised that a 'bolt on' kit was fitted to an engine with 115k on it already. I'd expect and engine inspection first to assess wear and a report produced before any tuning work took place.

Why was the car given back to you 'running like a bag of s...'. ?

With the fuelling as it was, i would have thought the car would have been on the back of a low loader to Backdraft rather than being driven

James.


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## TTej (Sep 10, 2003)

Has anyone actually got this kit to work???

I mean Sam's had problems, and now you have had this. IS there something fundamentaly wrong with this??

Is interesting that they say the total cost is down to you. You would need to get some real legal advice but from what you have said. You paid Â£5600 and have not recieved what you paid for, thats one point.

If then THEY are firstly ragging your car around (after collecting the car) they are not really taking much care of your property.

Also if they are doing live data logging and they blow the engine then its either down to the driver of the at that time or their product blowing it up. In both cases its down to them. Did they have something you signed that said 'we'll fit your turbo but if it blows you car up that down to you' i mean thats is taking the piss.

Ask for your car to be delivered back to you, as thats where they have taken in. and i think you should definatly get a second look at it.

good luck mate.

Best judge of a company and product is how they act when things go wrong. So maybe Mark needs to get his thoughts together... :?


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## Westys (Jan 25, 2007)

Will let everyone know the outcome


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## CamV6 (Oct 26, 2003)

You should get awesome GTI or another competent expert to rebuild the engine and do a full written mechanical report, covering all the info you have received from the various sources, diagnosis and remedial work.

You should also instruct solicitors to recover the cost of all work that was necessary as a result of Backdraft's obvious negilgence.

This is appaling service and attitude from them. I'm disgusted for you.

Also consider speaking to your local Trading Statndards office for advice before doing anything.


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## Rob_vienna (Sep 21, 2006)

I personally wouldnt want them to put anything "right" on the car now. I simply wouldnt trust them.

Whats the possibility of getting another reputable garage like Awesome or APS to do the work and then bill Mark at Backdraft like? Im no expert at law or anything so Im not sure how it would work, if at all...

Gutted for you though, it must be so frustrating.


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## TTej (Sep 10, 2003)

Fact is you gave them a working car, they have never given you one back... simple.


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## KentishTT (Jun 28, 2007)

Tell him he can have his car back when he returns your TT to you in a driveable condition (as it was given to him). See what he says.

I'd also ask him to remove the turbo kit and refund your Â£5600 if it was me.

He has a duty to care for your car and check it thoroughly for weakness before testing. He will also have insurance to cover damage whilst in his care (unless he's a complete fool).

He's trying it on.

You must put everything to him in writing and tell him you'll take him to court.

It's the only way to resolve this by the sound of it. Incidentally, you could hire a car and claim that cost back too. Try and get an hour with a local lawyer as soon as you can to get an opinion.

So, I think we'll all be crossing BACKDRAFT, MRC TUNING and TTSHOP off our list of trusted TT Specialists!

Good luck with this, keep us informed of how you get on.

.


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## Doug1 (Aug 15, 2007)

Westy - can you email me at [email protected]

A post like this without all the facts is not helping anyone get your car sorted out.

When your car was on the dyno you can see the boost dropped off - it was mapped to 23-24psi peak and holding around 22psi and dropping down to 18-19psi above 6500 due to not enough fuel. Now on the dyno you can see it drops to 10 psi. When I got your car back your N75 valve was intermittantly working - We would disconnect and connect and it would run fine for a few runs then stop working. We changed the N75 but because you had the race one we had to remap the car.

Your car has always performed differnetly to the other cars and was a pita to get mapped. As Mark has told me you have cam wear on your cams. Depending on how bad this is this can explain why your was not perforiming as we expected. The problem with all the 5V engines and cam wear is that you get lots of hardened metal everywhwere so you should get the engine checked and rebuilt. THis is a long term issue, not a mapping issue.

When the head was taken off it also had sooted up pistons on 1, 2 and 4 and number 3 was clean. I would not expect this if everything was ok with the car. For some reeason 3 had obviously been not getting enough fuel before it let go. These injectors are not matched like aftermarket ones and you are trying to run injectors at there limits to get the 320 - 340bhp these ktis do. It does not take much for an injector or the fuel pump to cause problems when you run them on the limits.

As soon as you car lost compression, the car was stopped. The oil on the dipstick was just below the top of the recommended level. It has not been starved of oil. The car was then towed

Your car was running with 3 degrees pulling back on cylinder 2 and between 1 and 2 on the others. We only have esso super here so this is why we let it pull back - when you use better fuel it should not pul back any. There is a maximum of 12 degrees it can pull back safely

There are lots of reasons why this could have happened, sticky injector, old fuel pump at its limit, fuel filter, leaks - but to get it sorted please email me.

I always ask customers to come back to me with any issues and we will always sort these out.

regards
Doug


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## KentishTT (Jun 28, 2007)

That's a very fair response but I must ask, you knew the mileage of the car and the possible risks so why did you go ahead? When I was in the trade and this kind of thing happened we gave the customer a loan car and sorted it all out through our liability insurance.

This kind of thing occurs from time to time and that's why it is so important to be covered.


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## COF TT 71 (Feb 2, 2007)

Seems a bit strange that you have had these problems when so many other forum members have had these kits fitted with no such issues? My cars been perfect from day 1 and I suppose that it's my responsibility to provide them with a good car in the first place. I might feel a bit more upset if I was in your position but that wouldn't be an excuse to blame others. Feel for you!


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## KentishTT (Jun 28, 2007)

COF TT 71 said:


> Seems a bit strange that you have had these problems when so many other forum members have had these kits fitted with no such issues? My cars been perfect from day 1 and I suppose that it's my responsibility to provide them with a good car in the first place. I might feel a bit more upset if I was in your position but that wouldn't be an excuse to blame others. Feel for you!


Fair enough but if you take your car to a specialist they should advise whether there is a risk and whether the car has any weaknesses whether they are inherent or due to age/mileage.


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## Stub (Mar 17, 2005)

COF TT 71 said:


> Seems a bit strange that you have had these problems when so many other forum members have had these kits fitted with no such issues? My cars been perfect from day 1 and I suppose that it's my responsibility to provide them with a good car in the first place. I might feel a bit more upset if I was in your position but that wouldn't be an excuse to blame others. Feel for you!


If Mark calls around he may be able to scrape up another person who will say the kit is good.... staged!! did he send you the script?

As said before, if companies take these on without doing proper checks then all fool for them!


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## Doug1 (Aug 15, 2007)

There are always issues with getting more power out of cars and going from 225bhp to try and get 350bhp, just becasue the car was ok at 225 it does not mean it is as good as new.(i would say 9 out of 10 cars that come in for work or remap have problems and the owner was none the wiser) I am not the first point of contact for Westy (i have ever spoken to him) - I only get given cars with kits on, and we have to remap them.

We test every car before we pull them to bits to put any kits or remap them. It is hard to tell excatly how healthy a car is performing when you do not see it stock and when it has other companies chips or remaps.

This car because it is an early one does not have any egt control, so we got a bung in the downpipe so we can put in our egt sensor. the car never ran above 840 deg c at the downpipes (approx 950 deg in the manifold - this is very coneservative as most other thuners think higher is ok). Later cars have the egt and if the car ever goes above the setpoint it is mapped to (this is remapped because egt sensor is in a different position) it will dump fuel to safe the engine (but the cars with injectors and pumps maxed out this will not happen as there is no headroom)


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## Westys (Jan 25, 2007)

Will let everyone know the outcome


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## Juber (May 20, 2007)

Legally â€" if you buy something that isnâ€™t working within 30 days you should have your money back. So get your money back for the bullshit turbo kit and also get them to sort your car out.. Yes its more simple than said but I would absolutely hassle them and make their lives a living hell.


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## raptoruk (May 8, 2007)

Hope u get it sorted bud, but I believe you have a very firm case, Doug is contracted out of Backdraft, before the kit was fitted all potential weaknessâ€™s should have been analysed, just to fit the Turbo and take ur money is unprofessional and negligent. All parties involved should work together to get this situation ratified. If BD is not bothered in helping, lets spread the word. Good on U Doug for trying to help out.


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## Westys (Jan 25, 2007)

Will let everyone know the outcome


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## Juber (May 20, 2007)

Westys said:


> raptoruk said:
> 
> 
> > Hope u get it sorted bud, but I believe you have a very firm case, Doug is contracted out of Backdraft, before the kit was fitted all potential weaknessâ€™s should have been analysed, just to fit the Turbo and take ur money is unprofessional and negligent. All parties involved should work together to get this situation ratified. If BD is not bothered in helping, lets spread the word. Good on U Doug for trying to help out.
> ...


So basically he fucked it up tahts why it isnt woring now!

Mark if youre reading this you do realise how many customers will not use you now.......Also by reading this thread seems like your customer service is very shit, youre threttening some one who has paid Â£5k+ to you for using youre car! what a joker, this Mark bloke sounds like a ***.

MAte i really feel for you and hope you get this sorted quickly and stress free.


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## Stub (Mar 17, 2005)

Mate I would keep the car until he returned yours as he picked it up, verbal contract and all that, he gave you the car to use so F**k him and use it, why not blow his engine up and tell the old bill it was on the way out and how where you supposed to know!

I wouldnâ€™t give it back, you didnâ€™t steal it, it was given to you to use until he gave you yours back working, the later has not happened so why give it back?


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## parky01 (Mar 27, 2007)

Screw his car and criminal offence rubbish get it locked up and reurn it when yours is fixed.


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## Westys (Jan 25, 2007)

Will let everyone know the outcome


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## Juber (May 20, 2007)

he sounds like a right wanker, hope you read this Mark.

Lets hope the cars got the wrong fuel in it too so his car gets buggered up.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

This looks like it could go the way of Imran and the VX220 thread the other day.

Mark if you're reading this and you missed that thread, the guy got fried...

Best thing is to admit liability and restore some level of reputation.

Cheers

rich


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## daviemac11 (Jul 25, 2007)

Really feel for ya mate, hope you get things sorted out soon. You must feel gutted.
This Mark sounds like a right [email protected]!
All the best,
Davie.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Hats off to Doug for trying to resolve the issue.

Mark @ Backdraft sounds like a total cowboy. Happy to sell a no-frills big turbo upgrade, without being prepared to check suitability first.

I would be noting down details that have happened so far, and getting everything in writing from now on. Don't speak to Mark on the phone, get him to put it on paper.

If the engine wasn't in a fit state to take the upgrade in the first place, there is a duty of care, if not an absolute legal responsibility, to find this out and make appropriate recommendations.

I can't comment on what has caused the problems from a technical perspective but:

1) Mark has NO BUSINESS threatening to speak to your Station Manager, in a weak attempt to drop you in it. That's childish, cowardly and absolutely counter productive.

2) Mark should be going out of his way to ensure you are treated fairly and, if necessary, with kid gloves. If that means allowing you to use his car until a his insurance can pay for a courtesy car, or a hire car, so be it... but to threaten to call the police if you drive his car again? The guy's a joke.

3) Backdraft should have insurance to cover this.

I certainly cannot see any forum member using these people again. Of course everyone hopes that nothing will go wrong when they mod their car, but sometimes things do. How the company treats you when this happens is, without doubt, how they'll be judged.

The jury's out as to whether a 'cheap' bolt-on upgrade, not touching the cams, rods, pistons, injectors etc, is a good idea... but the case is clear for Backdraft. Avoid like the plague.


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## Grinshady (Jun 20, 2006)

Gutted for you mate, really hope you get it sorted soon


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## sean.ui (Nov 18, 2006)

I'm shocked that anyone could treat a customer in this way - particularly one who has spent 5k+ with them. Unfortunately I believe that the car industry is a haven for such individuals (with some rare exceptions). I've been waiting for a refund for warranty repairs I paid for from the dealership where I purchased my TT (5 months now)!

Westy I sympathise and I agree with those who have already stated you have a strong case - I would advise you refrain from any more comments on this forum and speak to a solicitor.


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## TTej (Sep 10, 2003)

I would be tempted not to park Marks car at your house and actually leave in some shite area and hope it gets broken in to. Phoning you and threatening you is a complete piss take.

Dont hold about and get on to the lawyers.


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## TGS (Jun 24, 2007)

I thought there was a liability insurance for this as if I had made a mistake with a drill in a prestige dash board I could claim for it (Install Advanced Car Security Systems) or if the alarm burnt out the wires etc. The best thing to do is sort it out for the customer as its your reputation on the line if your reading this. Hope all will end well for you Westy. Personally I would of sent the heavies round as I also run a security company with some very heavy geezers. But hey thatâ€™s me. :wink: As IMIO he is taking the piss what with your 5K+ hard earned cash


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## skydiver (Oct 12, 2006)

Thats bad news mate, really bad.

Go and visit the Citizens advice, trading standards and a lawyer asap. Write down everything that has happened in chronological order and if anything was witnessed, who by.

Do that and don't enter into any more forum posts, it could do more damage than good.

Best of luck


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## TTej (Sep 10, 2003)

MAte i forgot how to ask how you paid for the turbo. If you did it by credit card get on to them to recover the money. When making big purchases i usually use my card and pay it off straight away as you have more protection with a CC then with cash.


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## Hosken Racing (Sep 8, 2005)

Due to some of the ridiculous comments posted in this post we are not willing to go into full detail about the situation. The coments made make it very difficult for us to progress resolving the situation with Westy's car.
However, I would like to make the following statement-
The Backdraft Turbo Kit is tried and tested and works extremely well in cars that are of an acceptable mechanical state. The cause of Westy's cars engine problem is yet to be decided and under discusion using actual evidence.
Throughout the process of dealing with Westy's car we have gone to extreme lengths to keep our customer happy. 
We are currently still discussing a way forward to getting Westys car fixed and delivering the power our kit usually delivers.
In around 30 installations we are only aware of 3 cars that have had an issue of any kind. So far 2 out of 3 of those cars have been resolved by us. We aim to resolve this issue with Westy's car within acceptable limits.
I will not be commenting further on this listing so please dont expect me to answer any further posts as it is my priority to resolve the situation with my customer, Westy.
Regards
Backdraft Motorsport.


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## robokn (Feb 21, 2006)

This is completely destroyed any credance that BD had, His customer service is appalling and I think possibly illegal, If you paid but CC you can get legal cover to recover all funds paid, also look at your car or house insurance as you may have legal cover to sort this out.

Legal action would seem the most logical way to sort this out, He may go bankrupt to avoid paying any debts owed, have you spoke to the TT shop with refearance this situation

I really hope you get this sorted out and he gets his come uppance


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## jbell (May 15, 2006)

Hosken Racing said:


> Due to some of the ridiculous comments posted in this post we are not willing to go into full detail about the situation. The coments made make it very difficult for us to progress resolving the situation with Westy's car.


Why would peoples opinion make it difficult to progress?



Hosken Racing said:


> However, I would like to make the following statement-
> The Backdraft Turbo Kit is tried and tested and works extremely well in cars that are of an acceptable mechanical state. The cause of Westy's cars engine problem is yet to be decided and under discusion using actual evidence.


I am assuming you checked Westys car was "In acceptable mechanical state"



Hosken Racing said:


> Throughout the process of dealing with Westy's car we have gone to extreme lengths to keep our customer happy.
> We are currently still discussing a way forward to getting Westys car fixed and delivering the power our kit usually delivers.


By taking the courtesy car off him and leaving him high and dry :?:



Hosken Racing said:


> In around 30 installations we are only aware of 3 cars that have had an issue of any kind. So far 2 out of 3 of those cars have been resolved by us. We aim to resolve this issue with Westy's car within acceptable limits.
> I will not be commenting further on this listing so please dont expect me to answer any further posts as it is my priority to resolve the situation with my customer, Westy.
> Regards
> Backdraft Motorsport.


What do you class as acceptable limits? The only acceptable limit IMO is fix it properly and give him it back in the condition it was in before the Kit was added


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Hosken Racing said:


> Due to some of the ridiculous comments posted in this post we are not willing to go into full detail about the situation. The coments made make it very difficult for us to progress resolving the situation with Westy's car.
> However, I would like to make the following statement-
> The Backdraft Turbo Kit is tried and tested and works extremely well in cars that are of an acceptable mechanical state. The cause of Westy's cars engine problem is yet to be decided and under discusion using actual evidence.
> Throughout the process of dealing with Westy's car we have gone to extreme lengths to keep our customer happy.
> ...


10% of your customers have had issues?      

I'm sure your potential customers would appreciate an update from you when the matter is resolved.

If you spent more time trying to resolve the situation with your customer, and less time making threats to him, you might find it gets resolved a little quicker and easier. Just my opinion - unless you are calling your customer a liar?

Regardless of what caused the problem, it happened whilst the car was in your care, and under your control, and that means it *is* your fault until proven otherwise...


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## skydiver (Oct 12, 2006)

Hosken Racing said:


> Due to some of the ridiculous comments posted in this post we are not willing to go into full detail about the situation. The coments made make it very difficult for us to progress resolving the situation with Westy's car.
> However, I would like to make the following statement-
> The Backdraft Turbo Kit is tried and tested and works extremely well in cars that are of an acceptable mechanical state. The cause of Westy's cars engine problem is yet to be decided and under discusion using actual evidence.
> Throughout the process of dealing with Westy's car we have gone to extreme lengths to keep our customer happy.
> ...


The ridiculous comments seem to have been made by you from the outset.

Threatening to tell someones boss, hardly seems fair does it?

Telling them they can pick the car up with the bits in the boot?

Forums are not the best way to deal with issues and I always advise people of this (see my original post) as I had my fingers burnt.

Obviously this is totally out of hand but I am sure everyone on the forum would like to hear of the outcome. Given that the forum attracts a lot of TT and VAG owners they form a large percentage of YOUR customer base it can only be bad for business to let this stand as is.


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## Westys (Jan 25, 2007)

Will let everyone know the outcome


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

coupe-sport said:


> Sorry to hear your tale of woe -
> 
> I'm suprised that a 'bolt on' kit was fitted to an engine with 115k on it already. I'd expect and engine inspection first to assess wear and a report produced before any tuning work took place.
> 
> James.


ABSOLUTELEY! putting 350 bhp through an engine that's done 115k is not good :?


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## Johnny2Bad (Nov 19, 2006)

Westy I hope it gets sorted soon - it's riddiculous that threats have been made to jeopordise your whole career by someone who has Â£5k of your dosh and has done fcuk all to make you feel like you got something for your hard earned cash apart from a headache and a bigger bill.

I would suggest that up until now Backdraft have been very lucky that they've been dealing with someone so patient as i would have flipped a long time ago.

Take legal advice mate as they're no friends of yours - W*nkers


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

Doug1 said:


> I always ask customers to come back to me with any issues and we will always sort these out.
> 
> regards
> Doug


does that include me doug :wink:


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## Westys (Jan 25, 2007)

Will let everyone know the outcome


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## elucidate (Nov 22, 2005)

Doesn't something as simple the sales of goods act cover this?

Turbo fitted, tubo didnt work = failed under the sales of goods act as does not fulfil intended and implied purpose.


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## s3fella (Jan 31, 2007)

What DV do you have on this car post conversion....?

I'd be interested as I know of some issues with at least one recent batch of popular aftermarket "performace" DVs.

PM me westy if you like, if its made by the manufacuturer I had issues witih on my BT conversion, it may have contributed to your issue.

BT ocnveresions are tricky and do stress motors and componenets, ..I had probs with mine......but company sorted it out and problem was traced to a certain bought incomponent.

But by BDs admission on here, they have had three issues now, at least one of them seems to have been a serious potential life threatening one......loss of brakes etc....! Surely BD see that they need to really get theseconversions right in 100% of cases, not 90%......a catastrophic engine failure or brake failure could cost someone their life and then there really would be something a bit more than a few quid to worry about. 
I see this form all angles though, what put me off the BD kit was the fact kit made by one company, often fitted at another and mapped by someone else...when things go wrong, who's to blame.........well maybe if they all say its the customer, customer gets done over!

Sorry for you Westy that's for sure. BTW what car is this on, not the green TT with later style audi grill conversion is it.?


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

G12MO X said:


> IMO I have had my problems :? But work in progress to resolve and improve 8) Mark has been fair with me and I will update everyboby with before and after pictures (My kit was not fitted by Mark) when it returns 8)
> Good luck Westys, Sure it will work out in the end.


who's fitting your turbo sam?


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

OMG sorry to here this mate..

I just never uderstound how you can supply a kit with no injectors or fuel pump.. :? Just doesn't make sense.. that s more than a 120bhp with a OEM fueling setup :?

This is really scary stuff though, the last thing you want is to have your pride and joy abbused..

I feel for you so mate, it happened to my old track/road car i was mortified.. 

I hope everything goes in your favour in the end..


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

Steve has saved the day  I think.. Steve :roll:

Its running just doing other bit before recieving my manifold  then getting the Turbo on..

hows yours looking..? all done now..?


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

G12MO X said:


> JAAYDE said:
> 
> 
> > Steve has saved the day  I think.. Steve :roll:
> ...


well steve has save the day.. 

I'm pracitally ready, all the bits ready to go on just need valves aswell (heat treated) got new rods..

Jabba's waiting list is endless it seem.. but they had problmes at the casting factory..

Cool looking forward to the pics.. did you end up going with the low compression je pistons..?


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## wayside (Apr 22, 2007)

If the car has been running for 7 years/115K miles without problems, why play around with it? ("If it aint broke, etc..."). I am often surprised to read on this Forum the things people do to their TTs...drilling holes in dashboard to fit starter button....taking bits off the ashtray to fit satnavs...dodgyr emaps..etc...etc..

Audi have made an iconic car. Apart from simple add-on bits like the armrest (surely the best-ever accessory), leave the car alone!.
If it was good enough for Audi to produce 'as is', it's good enough to buy and enjoy without risky mods.


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

wayside said:


> If the car has been running for 7 years/115K miles without problems, why play around with it? ("If it aint broke, etc..."). I am often surprised to read on this Forum the things people do to their TTs...drilling holes in dashboard to fit starter button....taking bits off the ashtray to fit satnavs...dodgyr emaps..etc...etc..
> 
> Audi have made an iconic car. Apart from simple add-on bits like the armrest (surely the best-ever accessory), leave the car alone!.
> If it was good enough for Audi to produce 'as is', it's good enough to buy and enjoy without risky mods.


not really mate.. if you don't like something you don't use it/ look at it you modify it to suit your needs..

how do you think the TT was designed..? in the same way..

*GI2MO X -* Its a shame you can't see them after they are fitted..  ..
did you get the ceramic coating.?


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## Stub (Mar 17, 2005)

wayside said:


> If the car has been running for 7 years/115K miles without problems, why play around with it? ("If it aint broke, etc..."). I am often surprised to read on this Forum the things people do to their TTs...drilling holes in dashboard to fit starter button....taking bits off the ashtray to fit satnavs...dodgyr emaps..etc...etc..
> 
> Audi have made an iconic car. Apart from simple add-on bits like the armrest (surely the best-ever accessory), leave the car alone!.
> If it was good enough for Audi to produce 'as is', it's good enough to buy and enjoy without risky mods.


lol read his sig "Owner a mid-lifer with ear-to-ear grin" bless him, bet you drive in your slippers, you like the arm rest (which was actually one of my first mods,) so why didnâ€™t you just leave it the way Audi designed it?.... You made it a little better didnâ€™t you.... Get it now! :roll:


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## S10TYG (Mar 7, 2007)

caney said:


> ABSOLUTELEY! putting 350 bhp through an engine that's done 115k is not good :?


That says it all. I've had little problems with my engine. Depends how the car is driven of course. Only so much batterin an engine can take.


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

Its not the mileage.. it's the fueling that can't couple..

If you go on the Seat cupra forum you will see they have opened up 1.8 T engines that have little wear to anything after 150k onwards..


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## S10TYG (Mar 7, 2007)

JAAYDE said:


> Its not the mileage.. it's the fueling that can't couple..
> 
> If you go on the Seat cupra forum you will see they have opened up 1.8 T engines that have little wear to anything after 150k onwards..


LOL. I don't care what u say Jay. Its not about roastin out an engine with 110k on the clock. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

S10TYG said:


> JAAYDE said:
> 
> 
> > Its not the mileage.. it's the fueling that can't couple..
> ...


well if you have enough fuel it will be okay..


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

G12MO X said:


> I have now got bosch 044 fuel pump and 550cc genesis injector, fueling now not a prob


thats the one


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

G12MO X said:


> I have now got bosch 044 fuel pump and 550cc genesis injector, fueling now not a prob


 i reckon you've spent as much as me now on your tt sam,in a 3rd of the time as well :wink:


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## Nick225TT (Oct 13, 2004)

G12MO X said:


> JAAYDE said:
> 
> 
> > S10TYG said:
> ...


And for a couple of hundred quid extra you get the peace of mind that you wont get a meltdown in #3.

Similar thing happened to a guy on the Seat forum running a IHI.


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

Nick225TT said:


> Similar thing happened to a guy on the Seat forum running a IHI.


I saw that running lean and melted piston 3  ..


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## Nick225TT (Oct 13, 2004)

JAAYDE said:


> Nick225TT said:
> 
> 
> > Similar thing happened to a guy on the Seat forum running a IHI.
> ...


Ran lean  IMO get injectors the size of drain pipes to keep things cool, or under the bonnet will end up like a foundry.

If you hand over 5k you expect to get your car back in working order. Take it to trading standards he may be know to them already.

feel for you mate.


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## Juber (May 20, 2007)

elucidate said:


> Doesn't something as simple the sales of goods act cover this?
> 
> Turbo fitted, tubo didnt work = failed under the sales of goods act as does not fulfil intended and implied purpose.


Listen to this man, he knows his stuff 8)


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## Doug1 (Aug 15, 2007)

caney said:


> Doug1 said:
> 
> 
> > I always ask customers to come back to me with any issues and we will always sort these out.
> ...


Of course - but you need to get your fitment issues sorted first.


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## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

Westy ~ Gutted to read of your woes mate.

I was always wondering, whenever I saw the Backdraft ad' at the top of the page, how competant they were achieving 350bhp. Obviously this thread has unfortunately answered my concerns.

With the exception of people like Caney, who have ensured that the block can cope with the additional power, I don't believe that the standard engine can be safely pushed to 350bhp.

Mine blew its guts at approx. 270bhp. Too much boost, fried the turbo, bent the rods and totally f*cked the engine!! Required new engine.

I think there's plenty of consumer safety nets out there to help you achieve either a satisfactory resolution and/or a partial/full refund. You deserve it.

As for anyone else thinking of going big turbo route ~ Seriously consider it first and decide if you can afford a new engine when all goes tits up!! :?


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## Hosken Racing (Sep 8, 2005)

Following closer inspection by ourselves and 3 other professional parties I can confirm that the damage to Westy's engine was caused by a faulty injector. I am sorry that this has happened to one of our customers cars but I can assure the forum members that the car was performing correctly when it was first delivered back to Westy. Neither the kit, the installation or the mapping is to blame for this failure. 
Dispite this Backdraft initially supplied a loan car and collected Westys car, an 8 hour journey, as a gesture of good will.
The car has been back with us for nearly 2 weeks. Whilst diagnosing the apparent fueling issue the engine let go during a logging run in 2nd gear.
The engine has been stripped free of charge by us as a gesture of good will and we have diagnosed that a faulty fuel injector has caused the problem.
As a further gesture of good will we have offered to continue loaning Westy the loan car and supply the parts and labour to fix the damage caused by the faulty injector, even though this is not our responsibility.
We have asked Westy to pay for other worn parts in the engine together with replacement fuel injectors and offered to fit them free of charge as a gesture of good will.
I do believe this is a response of a responsible company and would once again like to confirm to the rest of our customers that may use this forum that this failure is not due to any of the parts supplied in our kit or the mapping supplied.
Regards
Backdraft Motrsport.


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## S10TYG (Mar 7, 2007)

Well done Mark :wink: Well said. I have faith in the kit, don't worry. My car is back in the TT shop today for a checkup.


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## Nick225TT (Oct 13, 2004)

Shouldn't the injectors have been removed, inspected tested and cleaned as part of the upgrade?

Didn't alarm bells go off when you had trouble with the mapping?


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

The quesion is what makes an injector fail? Injector failure is pretty unusual isn't it? When was the last time anyone posted on the forum saying they'd had a failure? I've never spoken to anyone with a Motronic car with injector failure.... not saying that it hasn't happened, but some sort of root cause analysis would be useful for all of us to avoid the situation.


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## Juber (May 20, 2007)

About time this is fixed! WOO HOOO!

Lets hope it doesnt go pop again!


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## KentishTT (Jun 28, 2007)

Nick225TT said:


> Shouldn't the injectors have been removed, inspected tested and cleaned as part of the upgrade?
> 
> Didn't alarm bells go off when you had trouble with the mapping?


I wondered this too given the clear and known risks of any fuel system faults I would have thought that test runs would have been halted.

As far as I can see this is still the responsibility of the specialist entrusted to do the work and surely this is exactly what you have insurance for, unless they don't have a n y .. ... .........??


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## Doug1 (Aug 15, 2007)

The car was running with low egts (<840) and 12:1 on boost and knock sensors below 3 degrees pull back. the failure looks like a sudden failure. if the car was mapped to run lean all the pistons would show signs of running lean - as it happend 3 were sooted up as it runs rich (as a turbo car should do) and the damaged one was clean (sign of too much air). The ecu has no control over individual injectors seperatly or any way of measuring each bank for mixture. If the injector had been failing all the time then you would get that cylinder to ping before the others and it would ping a lot.

The issues with the mapping were the airflow was not as expected, but the worn cams(so not opening as much as they should) could explain this. And the dropping of boost was the N75 valve playing up (mechanically sticking and not throwing codes)

Injectors failing or sticking is not that common but it can happen. Crap in the fuel system is common - How often are the filters changed? If you look inside the strainer of fuel pump you will see lots of debris in there.

As for cars performing as not expected - even stock cars perform differnetly when mapped - considerably different - that is why manufacturers have to leave so much headroom in the cars so that 1 map fits all.


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## Westys (Jan 25, 2007)

Doug1 said:


> The car was running with low egts (<840) and 12:1 on boost and knock sensors below 3 degrees pull back. the failure looks like a sudden failure. if the car was mapped to run lean all the pistons would show signs of running lean - as it happend 3 were sooted up as it runs rich (as a turbo car should do) and the damaged one was clean (sign of too much air). The ecu has no control over individual injectors seperatly or any way of measuring each bank for mixture. If the injector had been failing all the time then you would get that cylinder to ping before the others and it would ping a lot.
> 
> The issues with the mapping were the airflow was not as expected, but the worn cams(so not opening as much as they should) could explain this. And the dropping of boost was the N75 valve playing up (mechanically sticking and not throwing codes)
> 
> ...


Will let everyone know the outcome


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## Doug1 (Aug 15, 2007)

Your N75 was working when it left here the first time. You read 258 on your maf - when it came back due to the low boost you had 234 on the maf or 258 depending on whether the n75 worked or not.

You can see on your plots the boost swithced off down to mechanical wastegate boost. If there were no codes then you had a mechanical issue. It was not mapped to do that. These cars all run approx 1.5 to 1.3, some more, some less.


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## Rogue (Jun 15, 2003)

Doug1 said:


> Your N75 was working when it left here the first time. You read 258 on your maf - when it came back due to the low boost you had 234 on the maf or 258 depending on whether the n75 worked or not.


But wasn't it someone from your company who "ragged" his car whilst taking it back from Westy's home to your workshop?

Rogue


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Rogue said:


> But wasn't it someone from your company who "ragged" his car whilst taking it back from Westy's home to your workshop?
> 
> Rogue


Think you're confused Rouge. Westys said it was someone from Backdraft.


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## Rogue (Jun 15, 2003)

clived said:


> Rogue said:
> 
> 
> > But wasn't it someone from your company who "ragged" his car whilst taking it back from Westy's home to your workshop?
> ...


Ah, ok. I assumed Doug1 worked for Backdraft too. 

Rogue


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## Nick225TT (Oct 13, 2004)

It's not as if they were road testing and a drive shaft went or the diff exploded with the extra power. In most peoples eyes that would be down to Westy to fix and not the tuner.

If your paid 5k to tune/upgrade a motor you can't seriously give back molten metal and say it wasn't our fault.... honest.


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## elliotward (Jan 27, 2007)

omg all i can say is thank god this happened this month (sorry westy), after reading the adverts I saved up three months to get it done and would of gone about having it booked in next month!!! the only question i have is who else can I go to? ive seen one on here with 415bhp and have around Â£8000 to spend, the way I look at it is a low mileage M3 will cost me Â£24k and the TT with 28,000 on the clock cost me Â£13K with the mods still under wat an M3 costs and more power!! hehe :lol:


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## Hallyfella (Mar 5, 2007)

TOTAL WAN**RS. Sorry to hear about your trouble. Shall we send the boys round!! :twisted:


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## Nick225TT (Oct 13, 2004)

elliotward said:


> omg all i can say is thank god this happened this month (sorry westy), after reading the adverts I saved up three months to get it done and would of gone about having it booked in next month!!! the only question i have is who else can I go to? ive seen one on here with 415bhp and have around Â£8000 to spend, the way I look at it is a low mileage M3 will cost me Â£24k and the TT with 28,000 on the clock cost me Â£13K with the mods still under wat an M3 costs and more power!! hehe :lol:


Jabba have been around for a bit and have a good reputation for this sort (IHI) of work. JBS also have a growing rep, speak to Clive about his experience with them. APS are also moving into the big turbo market and no ones every had a bad word to say about Ed & the boys.


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## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

Oh the irony. Open this thread for an update and see ...

http://www.********.co.uk/banman/banners/backdraft.gif

The question is 'Can _any_ TT handle it?' :?


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## Black Knight (Jan 16, 2007)

i think this is insane...

i have come from the background of owning calibra turbos.. they output 204hp stock.. for 2000 euros you can install a 320hp kit.. this kit still doesnt include a new turbo(the stock one is good for a maximum of 330hp), but does include bigger injectors, uprated fuel pressure regulator, large FMIC and even new camshafts.. 
the next 360hp kit is a bit more expensive, somewhere in the region of the backdraft kit and includes a bigger turbo but also new engine internals and lowered compression...
after that, sky is the limit, they have kits for up to 750hp which kosts 17000 euros.... but you can get a 450hp kit for a reasonable(considering all the parts you get) 9000 euros..

so.. i think this is way too expensive and crap... how on earth do you spend 5600 quid on an engine without even touching the fueling components or internals? not even an intercooler? how the f... does that work? 
obviously, if any of the stock components are in less than PERFECT shape your engine will blow instead of simply adjusting ignition/fueling and/or throwing an ECU fault..


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## Adam RRS (May 25, 2006)

TT2BMW said:


> Oh the irony. Open this thread for an update and see ...
> 
> http://www.********.co.uk/banman/banners/backdraft.gif
> 
> The question is 'Can _any_ TT handle it?' :?


lol

nothing but problems with this conversion.... Gizmos has gone, Scotty's car was being messed about with for god knows how long.... now westy...

dont mean to rub it in but the best part of Â£6k and all this agro..... no thanks!


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## Black Knight (Jan 16, 2007)

well im sure anyone can bolt on a bigger turbo and go to MCR to get a remap..it will cost way less than what they charge.... 
oh yes, you also get a cat and downpipe.. i think it would be way smarter to spend the exta money and get bigger injectors/fuel pressure regulator/maybe even fuel pump.. and perhaps uprated camshafts.. and a huge intercooler.. and you would still be able to do all that cheaper.. and it would be safer and better..


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## Westys (Jan 25, 2007)

I would like everyone to know that Mark, Doug and myself are finally working together to solve this problem. We have discussed this in length and come up with a number of solutions.

I think all parties will learn from this experience and I'm sure any more Kits Mark fits will include fuelling being tested 100% and new injectors fitted as part of these kits.

It's no point in trying to point the finger blaming one another as nothing would be solved.

I will do a write up of the full story once everything is sorted out with details of the engine and bhp. I will also take photo's of the blown engine parts.

Who is to blame we don't know, yes there could have been issues with the engine internals or it could have been a bad map. At the end of the day we have a blown engine that needs fixing and I now feel as though we are going in the right direction.

Thanks again for all the support.

Westy


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## p1tse (Sep 20, 2004)

glad to hear things are being resolved.

why don't more people choose jabbasport IHI kit, as loads of seat 1.8t owners use them and seem quite good


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

Hope this story has a happy ending. I don't think I will be going the big turbo route after all of the arse ache that several forum members have reported. May have to defect to an FQ400


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## S10TYG (Mar 7, 2007)

Adam TTR said:


> Scotty's car was being messed about with for god knows how long....


I know. They have had problems. But I have kept the faith


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## was (Mar 24, 2003)

It amazes me how so many people have commented on this thread without knowing the facts :roll:

who said this forum is going down hill :?:


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## robokn (Feb 21, 2006)

It dosn't help when all the facts seem to be rather dis-jointed to say the least, however it is good to see people giving opinions and support when somones pride and joy is destroyed and then asking for more money


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

robokn said:


> It dosn't help when all the facts seem to be rather dis-jointed to say the least, however it is good to see people giving opinions and support when somones pride and joy is destroyed and then asking for more money


Also good to see that the three of them seem to be making moves to resolve it.

Wish you well Westy.

Cheers

Rich


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

p1tse said:


> why don't more people choose jabbasport IHI kit, as loads of seat 1.8t owners use them and seem quite good


yep i had it and have basically sold the kit to jaayde now  had no issues whatsover with this set up


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## raptoruk (May 8, 2007)

Westys said:


> I would like everyone to know that Mark, Doug and myself are finally working together to solve this problem. We have discussed this in length and come up with a number of solutions.
> 
> I think all parties will learn from this experience and I'm sure any more Kits Mark fits will include fuelling being tested 100% and new injectors fitted as part of these kits.
> 
> ...


Excellent outcome.. 8)
With reference to WAS's comments, ppl have made comments based upon what has been quoted, if there were any other information pertinent that then ppl should have been made aware. I have only been a member a short while, but I donâ€™t think the Forum is going down hill, a lot of ppl benefit from others here and itâ€™s an excellent information sharing repository. I hope I donâ€™t cause offence WAS but, this happens every day. Good thing is Westy will get his car fixed, and all will have learnt from this issue discussed in the forum. I think dismissing the early slagging matchâ€™s all have been professional including Backdraft and MRC, 10/10 Lads
8)


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

I quoted mainly based on the customer service attitude of Backdraft.

Of course they want to distance themselves from any potential fall-out with the product, but some stuff was reported on here (and we've no reason to doubt its authenticity) which was so far from 'reasonable' it was untrue... :roll:


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## PDW (Jul 6, 2007)

Westy,

I think you are best to keep your current negotiations private but please let us know the outcome in due course, if you can.

Your experience really confirms my view and belief that seriously modding and converting this car is not a sensible option for most people. But still love the enthusiast for trying !!!


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## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

was said:


> who said this forum is going down hill :?:


Twas TTotal wasn't it? :lol:


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## wayside (Apr 22, 2007)

Hi Stub....no, I don't drive 'wearing slippers' but I DO drive..because I haven't pratted about with the engine, it actually works!


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## Stub (Mar 17, 2005)

wayside said:


> Hi Stub....no, I don't drive 'wearing slippers' but I DO drive..because I haven't pratted about with the engine, it actually works!


touched a nerv I think! dont worry yourself about us younuns get urself to bed with a nice warm milky drink :lol:


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## KentishTT (Jun 28, 2007)

Stub said:


> wayside said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Stub....no, I don't drive 'wearing slippers' but I DO drive..because I haven't pratted about with the engine, it actually works!
> ...


Now now boys, play nicely! 

It's nice to see westy, backdraft and MRC work this out together.

Great to see an amicable resolution and also some learnings for the future regarding the amended package to include replacement fueling components and more in-depth checks prior to future installation.

I'm suitably impressed that all concerned have spoken up on here to progress this without the need for any inappropriate comments and abuse.

Apologies for my flippant comment earlier in the thread regarding preffered specialists. I've certainly changed my opinion of Backdraft and MRC to a favourable one.


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## Juber (May 20, 2007)

jampott said:


> I quoted mainly based on the customer service attitude of Backdraft.
> 
> Of course they want to distance themselves from any potential fall-out with the product, but some stuff was reported on here (and we've no reason to doubt its authenticity) which was so far from 'reasonable' it was untrue... :roll:


me too, customer service sounds shit.

Glad both parties have sorted this though.


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## Nick225TT (Oct 13, 2004)

G12MO X said:


> Adam TTR said:
> 
> 
> > TT2BMW said:
> ...


Some people are just never satisfied


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## acmurray (Jun 28, 2007)

I Just thought that as this thread was getting dangerously one sided (borderline out of control) I would stick up my two cents in an effort to correct the injustice (as I see it) that is being done to Mark/Backdraft.
Mark is in the business of modding TT's and pretty much only TT's so Just think for a second the damage that this debacle is going to have on his livelihood if prospective customers read this thread and come away thinking that his kit is unreliable. So far There have been three out of approx 30 customers who have had issues, two of which are in the process of being sorted out amicably, all of these customers had their kits fitted in the early days and understandably there were some bugs. I and about 25 other people have had the later variant of the kit fitted with absolutely no problems, so lets get this whole situation in perspective before we send a lynch mob off to Milton Keynes. If you, reading this thread, are one of Marks many happy customers don't just sit on the fence, do what Westy invites you to do at the start of this thread and post your thoughts. And no I am not "reading off a script sent to me by Mark"
As from Westy's side of things I can only Imagen how gutted I would feel if after spending close to six grand on my beloved TT I was handed back the keys and an exploded engine along with being told that it is all my fault, especially with all the trouble that had gone before (not to mention Danny racing all the way to Milton Keynes at 7000 RPM (F*@king gobshite) after being told in no uncertain terms to treat the car with kid gloves).
I know that I am over simplifying things here but bear with me as I am trying to get across an important point. About two weeks after I got my car back from Backdraft one of my coil packs went, and anyone who has had a TT for long will know that coils can go at any time. My point is this, if the car happened to be at Backdraft when the coil went would it be Mark's fault? 
The reason Westy's car is knackerd is because an injector failed (yes I know there are other extenuating factors like Danny, mapping and so on)
The reason the injector failed is more than likely because it has traveled the equivalent distance from here to the Moon. If all four doors fell off (because they are so old) when the car was in the care of MRC would it be Marks responsibility to fix them? I think not.
The other big stick that we are using to beat Mark over the head with is his "horrible customer service" yet he has given Westy a very nice A4 to use until his car is fixed despite the fact that the root cause of the problem has very little to do with him. Also he has offered to carry out some very expensive repair work for free and probably some other things we don't know about. I'd say that that is some fairly decent customer service, wouldn't you?
As soon as I scrape up the funds I am going to have my "little beast" zouped up to 400+ BHP. It is quite likely that I will have this work done by Mark. If I thought his service was in any way lacking I wouldn't do this.
To sum up the Backdraft kit kicks ass IMO. If anyone is in any doubt PM me or give me a bell on 00 353 1 8430796 (I live in Dublin) to arrange a test flight.
Any of us who have spent big money on a turbo kit will know how Westy feels, let's face it a TT and a six grand lump of cash aren't easy to come by, but lets not lose the run of ourselves and lets take a balanced view over what has happed here and remember that someones livelihood hangs in the balance. If I was Mark I think that I would have difficulty sleeping too with all of the downright nasty comments being aimed at him and his kit by people who don't even know him, have his kit or have any dealings with him at all.


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

Black Knight said:


> how on earth do you spend 5600 quid on an engine without even touching the fueling components or internals? not even an intercooler? how the f... does that work?


Well said... no one seem to address that fact the injectors and fuel pipe and intercoolers a flat out..

Its like building a top heavy house.. :? doesn't work does it ? thats a no, you need a solid foundation.

I have a good friend that has heavily tuned a 1.8T from a 225 and he assures me, if you had a good compression and you are at 150,000miles and you have correct fuel, cooling and rods 350-380 is fine..


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

p1tse said:


> glad to hear things are being resolved.
> 
> why don't more people choose jabbasport IHI kit, as loads of seat 1.8t owners use them and seem quite good


because they work :?

I don't think the backdraft kit is the problem, that fact that there is still an OEM fuel system proves that there is a problem in the parts provided as every other BT kit has these basics parts..


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## Westys (Jan 25, 2007)

Will let everyone know the outcome


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