# standard internals x max power



## st3v3 (Apr 9, 2007)

so what can the factory fitted internals take power wise
for the 3 cars rated at 150,180 and 225 bhp (turbo charged cars not v6)
regardless of what you bolt on to achieve the power .

thanks


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## st3v3 (Apr 9, 2007)

no one ?


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## tom2018 (Mar 26, 2011)

Up to around 280-300 300 is pushing it on stock internals aprently, but i belive someone was running 315 ith stock internals dont no if they still are


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I know someone running 380ish on standard 225 internals and they have been for a good period of time .


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## 1sttt (Nov 6, 2011)

I was told that a max of 350 on a 180 engine but not sure on the other two.


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

Pistons are apparently good for 400BHP, the weakness comes with the torque. the max factor is 340lb/ft and i think when Janman is refering to 380, he's refering to me with my torque.. yes still of stock internals (i do have some rods but not fitted) so truth of the matter is you'll never get to 400BHP as the torque will bend the rods way before 400BHP.. seen a few stage 3's with GT28's and just rods on the internal side...


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## Diveratt (Aug 31, 2009)

It's not about power it's all about the torque


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> Pistons are apparently good for 400BHP, the weakness comes with the torque. the max factor is 340lb/ft and i think when Janman is refering to 380, he's refering to me with my torque.. yes still of stock internals (i do have some rods but not fitted) so truth of the matter is you'll never get to 400BHP as the torque will bend the rods way before 400BHP.. seen a few stage 3's with GT28's and just rods on the internal side...


No I was refering to Wak actually :lol:


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## kazinak (Mar 23, 2010)

I wouldn't risk to run 350-380 on stock con rods , specially when forged cost around 350 and can be replaced in one day

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## st3v3 (Apr 9, 2007)

so do the internals not differ from engine to engine with different power outputs?


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## Chris_TT (Apr 4, 2012)

Does the 225 not have forged internals already? I read somewhere that VAG did this so it could take the extra power since it's essentially just an upgrade from the slower 1.8ts?

..or am I dreaming again?


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## Jakalus (Jul 28, 2011)

Chris_TT said:


> Does the 225 not have forged internals already? I read somewhere that VAG did this so it could take the extra power since it's essentially just an upgrade from the slower 1.8ts?
> 
> ..or am I dreaming again?


I read the same thing somewhere Chris, one of few major internal differences I believe [smiley=book2.gif]


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## Stealth69 (Jun 25, 2012)

The internals will be forged but not particularly strong if that makes sense.


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

they are, but the bending of the rods is the weakest factor...

Still with all gaskets ect and time for the head off it easily mounts up.. then do you do vales and springs while your there.. all ££


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## st3v3 (Apr 9, 2007)

So in ball park figures the 150 bhp is rated at?
180bhp is good for 275bhp?
225 is good for 340lb/ft but nearer 375bhp?


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## Andy Conroy (May 30, 2012)

Think you need to think about is the wear allready on the Stock Engine you want to tune!! If the car has been driven hard most of its life and you then up the power to there threshold theres more chance of it breaking. If it has been drove normally and sensible for most of its life and been well looked after you'd have a better chance of it lasting.

The thing about it is how much risk you want to take really. I personally wouldn't on stock internal but each to there own


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## kazinak (Mar 23, 2010)

st3v3 said:


> So in ball park figures the 150 bhp is rated at?
> 180bhp is good for 275bhp?
> 225 is good for 340lb/ft but nearer 375bhp?


sooo, you have made terrible mistake by buying 150 and now thinking about more power :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## st3v3 (Apr 9, 2007)

kazinak said:


> st3v3 said:
> 
> 
> > So in ball park figures the 150 bhp is rated at?
> ...


I did buy the 150bhp TTR

The car is pretty much mint in all aspects with no faults other than lower arm rear bushes need swapping.
The car has no fault codes and is quiet and *tight* so by no means a mistake.

To put things in to perspective,Ive had fast cars,RSturbo,scooby running a tad under 275 bhp,but wanted something different this time,the TTR came up at a very good price so I bought it.

But to bait you a little more,I do want more power but I'm a person who likes a challenge,I'll tune the car,if the engine lets go then so be it,ill sort out a rebuild with a BT conversion.

I've already spoken to two very very know tuners on here who both say with thier re-maps alone I could see about 200 bhp+ now with a few more mods I've already got better power,effectively more so than your 225bhp 4wd TT due to the transmission losses.
In the very end i have a car that I want,that ows me nothing (yet) with a good usable power range,not much lag and that handles pretty good for a 2wd car.
So a mistake ? nahhh

By the way,you don't need big bhp to be fast,you need to know how to drive,then a 1.25 fiesta can be quick ;-)


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## bigsyd (Jul 9, 2008)

> By the way,you don't need big bhp to be fast,you need to know how to drive,then a 1.25 fiesta can be quick


that my friend is it in a nut shell,and i am that one with a fast car and mr sloooooooooow 

i have had a 150 with a map m8, trust me nothing up with it was a fast fooker 8) and looks like it was the same as you have


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## st3v3 (Apr 9, 2007)

bigsyd said:


> i have had a 150 with a map m8, trust me nothing up with it was a fast fooker 8)


Well this is it,it's only people on thier pedestal who think there's something wrong with the 150,when it's not what you have but how it used ;-)

I've seen in the short time I've been on this forum,people being almost laughed at because they have the 150 or even the 180 bhp cars,usually by the people who have 225's which is pretty piss poor to be honest and obnoxious to say the least.

TBH I can afford to go buy a porche Cayman right now if I wanted and not even blink at the cost,but this car came up cheap,so I had this instead


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## 1sttt (Nov 6, 2011)

With the 150 and 180 you run higher compression as well which helps produce more power . There is limits to what you can do but if like me you should try and push those limits.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Very nice tuned red 150 TTR at TTS quite often, I've been out in it FWD and a very nice drive.


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## kazinak (Mar 23, 2010)

jamman said:


> Very nice tuned red 150 TTR at TTS quite often, I've been out in it FWD and a very nice drive.


nicer than quattro :?:


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## st3v3 (Apr 9, 2007)

kazinak said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > Very nice tuned red 150 TTR at TTS quite often, I've been out in it FWD and a very nice drive.
> ...


Having had a 4wd (scoob) going in to a corner is great,as long as you can avoid the *flick* of coarse,but going in to a corner fronts wheels spinning, not knowing wether youre gonna make it or not, hoping to god the front does go round, yeah much better, real fun with out the saftey switch.

4wd simply means the drivers that think they can drive,gives them a comfy blanket.
2wd fwd or rwd means you have to good, else your gonna be buying a new front/back end lol


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

st3v3 said:


> bigsyd said:
> 
> 
> > i have had a 150 with a map m8, trust me nothing up with it was a fast fooker 8)
> ...


I think you miss the point, its not laughing so to speak its the fact you spent give or take the same money on a car that is the lowest possible spec/tune and yet desire more power......

and does that mean shoesmacker in a 1.25 fiesta could beat ham fisted me in a ferrari 458 round a track???


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## st3v3 (Apr 9, 2007)

Danny1 said:


> st3v3 said:
> 
> 
> > bigsyd said:
> ...


no you miss the point, i buy a car that i want and take up the challenge of making the car a better,more drivable car regardless of cost.

and yeah shumie could possibly beat you in a fiesta 1.25 cos youd be off in the first corner giving it beans in a car that your not used to but shumie is in a car well down on power of which he can control and drive to its limits wher you couldnt in the 458 

Old saying of which is very true:- what's power without control?


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

I bent a rod at my Stage 2 upgrade . . . engine should've handled it. Completely chewed up the engine. I was going to go forged internals at Stage 3 but didn't make it that far. The good news is I got a new engine out of it with all upgraded internals . . . but that was a pricey path to go for sure. Given this is an interference engine (something I learned when my rod bent), I wouldn't want to have a rod go ever and that seems to be the weak point when upgrading.


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## Stealth69 (Jun 25, 2012)

I don't think anybody is pointing the finger and saying the 150 is a cack car..... I think they are saying you have chosen a bad starting point...... you should know from owning an Impreza, if you want to mod a car and go quickly you don't buy a UK2000 or a WRX, you buy the STI for the extra little odds and sods, stronger starting point, more bhp per££ spent on mods and better reliability.

If all you are after is a fun car to drive then a 150 isnt a bad car and if you are driving the car you wanted then fair play to you.

bhp doesn't make you quick... torque makes you quick, BHP makes you fast.......

Happy modding matey


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## FinTTq (Sep 23, 2010)

It also depends what engine code you have... i'm not sure about the 180 version but the first 225's were APX (up to 2001 I think) and had stronger pins compared to the later engine BAM. The BAM engine although is more tunable because it has more sensors. I have heard of some people running about 330-350hp on APX engines, some have lasted and others haven't so I it's also about how you use the car.


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

Bam and Apx share the same internals it's a myth they have different pins.

Look in etka.

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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

I bent a rod running stage 1 power @ 30-40mph.......not sure what torque I was running but I do know I got a massive boost spike when loading up in 3rd and that was the end of that....

[smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## Frenzy (Mar 1, 2009)

The main problem to rods is the torque and not the hp.
I'm running 330hp and 380 of torque with stock internals with no problem until this moment.

The problem is in how the power is delivered and if it makes boost spikes or not.


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

Frenzy said:


> The main problem to rods is the torque and not the hp.
> I'm running 330hp and 380 of torque with stock internals with no problem until this moment.
> 
> The problem is in how the power is delivered and if it makes boost spikes or not.


Nice have you put some details of your car up? spec etc?


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## TT Blue 225 (Jun 7, 2018)

Frenzy said:


> The main problem to rods is the torque and not the hp.
> I'm running 330hp and 380 of torque with stock internals with no problem until this moment.
> 
> The problem is in how the power is delivered and if it makes boost spikes or not.


Hi Frenzy what turbo do you have cheers Mark


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