# 2.0 TFSI Engine Concern



## Revit (Jan 2, 2020)

Hi All, I'm looking for some guidance on my 07 Audi TT BWA the car drives great very quick but I did a recent oil change and checked the plastic filter housing thoroughly and noticed some glitter in the bottom of the housing. I cleaned the filter housing out and replace the oil and filter with a view to replacing again in a week or so to check for more signs of glitter metal flakes as the container for the oil was already dirty and hard to check. When I had finished I listened to the engine starting and I noticed a small rattle on startup after the starter sound kinda of a ball bearing rattle for a split second bearing disappearing. Now this rattle is there even if you turn the engine off and restart again so if it was the tappets then they are not holding any hydraulic pressure at all as it happens every time. I am concerned it could be small ends, oil pump, timing chain tensioner or even turbo bearing starting to fail. Engine has done 90k so not super high mileage but I dont want the engine letting go on the motorway. So any ideas/checks I can do as I dont want to change the timing chain and then find the engine is screwed anyway! I can post the startup video sound but I would think this would be common fault or problem as this car was serviced throughout its history from what I can see and runs perfect/starts on the button. Any ideas for basic checks would be appreciated.


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

Here's a good read from the Deutsche Auto Parts website -

In a nutshell, you can use an *OBDII* scan device; (e.g. Ross Tech, OBDeleven, etc.) to look at the measuring blocks and see if there's evidence of chain stretch.

*2.0T Timing Chain and Tensioner Issues*
https://www.daprepair.com/20t-vw-audi-t ... 0(how%20to).

*Check your 2.0t TSI VW | Audi for Timing Chain Stretch!*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtTOGPo ... eAutoParts

If you're not sure about which *OBDII* scanner is best for you, this post may help -

*FAQ - OBDII Scanner Reviews*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=2014603

With regards to bits in the oil, have you replaced the* High Pressure Fuel Pump (HPFP) Cam Follower*, or do you know if it was ever replaced? It's a DIY job, but not one Audi publishes in their Maintenance Schedule.

This YouTube is worth a watch to explain more about the *HPFP* and the *Cam Follower* -

*How VW and Audi 2.0t TSI High Pressure Fuel Pumps Fail (HPFP)*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3I9qvy ... leMechanic

.


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## FNChaos (Nov 30, 2016)

Recommend you send in an oil sample for analysis. Depending on what metal(s) they find will help determine what is actually wearing.

Your profile doesn't say where you are located, but in the US I'd recommend Blackstone labs.


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

@ *FNChaos* - I thought about that too, but wondered how the results would point to a specific part. I would assume it can it distinguish between the metals found in a Cam Follower, Timing Chain, Piston Ring or Main Bearing. Given there's a lot of different metals in the engine assembly, how does the analysis point to a specific part?

If he's hearing "a can of marbles" in there, I'm trying to understand how an oil analysis will be of much help. For long term wear over time, then sure, that makes sense as an annual analysis would help determine any trends over time. But for a one off analysis with no base line, I'm not sure how that would be appropriate in this case.


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## TT'sRevenge (Feb 28, 2021)

Same thing happened to me, and I can't figure out where the glitter is coming from. I pulled the rod bearings and they are fine, didn't see anything in the bottom end of concern--no play anywhere. Turbo thrust bearing is also brass but when I pulled the factory DP there's no play in the turbo, no play in the wastegate either. Everything seems fine. Just going to keep driving it as short of pulling the engine out and tearing it down, I'm not going to find anything it seems...

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=2010027
https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/brass- ... g.9457883/

Your rattle on startup may be coming from the cam chain/tensioner. I _didn't_ have any such rattle but I did change the chain/tensioner due to the miles. My old ones were absolutely fine--not even any cracking in the tensioner guide like a lot of people report. But, peace of mind I got new ones in there now. You can use a long screwdriver, hold the metal end to the housing and the handle end to your ear, then have a helper start the car--you'll be able to tell with more certainty if it's the cam chain/tensioner. It's not that hard to change but you do need some specialty tools to do it--nothing major though.

Other thing that can cause rattles is the evap purge valve--after a while you'll get a code set and MIL on for this though. This is a cheap fix--like $30, replace it and you're good.

Don't mistake injector noise on EA113s (which is quite loud) for any running problems--they make pretty good "ticks" or "pings" and is completely normal operation.


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## Revit (Jan 2, 2020)

Thanks all, I am in the UK so will start with the fault code reader I have one I feel a little bit more positive now that it maybe isnt time for a rebuild just yet but will also have a look at the High pressure fuel pump and will change it I have already done the PCV valve and it does burn a little oil. One annoying part I dont like is the oil filter housing I torqued it up to spec but weeps a bit every time so I tweak it a bit more after a run usually I prefer the metal can filters for sure.


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## FNChaos (Nov 30, 2016)

SwissJetPilot said:


> @ *FNChaos* - I thought about that too, but wondered how the results would point to a specific part. I would assume it can it distinguish between the metals found in a Cam Follower, Timing Chain, Piston Ring or Main Bearing. Given there's a lot of different metals in the engine assembly, how does the analysis point to a specific part?


Different metal combinations can indicate wear of certain parts. No guarantees of course, but the cost to test is cheap, easy to do & non-destructive. Test results will give you a general sense of the health of your engine, and if anything is discovered it 'might' focus one's troubleshooting in the right direction.

For example, here are some quotes from the attached links:
_ "The source of chromium wear metals are almost always from piston rings" 
"Copper is widely used due to its high ductility and thermal conductivity. It is mainly utilized in bushings and bearings such as: crankshaft journal bearings, connecting rod bearings, camshaft bushings, piston wrist pin bushings"_

https://bobistheoilguy.com/engine-oil-analysis/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis-2/

I don't know about other labs, but Blackstone typically comments on their findings.
FWIW, here is a sample cut from the comment section of my last report...

_ "Thank you for the note about the Liqui Moly additive. That doesn't usually affect test results, but
it's always good to know of any additives. The far right column displays our universal average file, which
shows typical wear for this type of Audi engine after about 6,200 miles of oil use. You ran this 0W/40 a little
less, so it's good to see all wear metals at or below averages. The flashpoint read low enough to show 2.0%
fuel dilution, which likely thinned the oil some, but neither is problematic at this level. We'll see if fuel stays
high next time. Nice report, overall"._


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

@ *FNChaos* - Thanks for that. I can see where an annual analysis would be a worthwhile investment to keep an eye on things over time.

@ *Revit & TT'sRevenge* - I'm Just trying to think what would cause the "glitter" in the oil. I think we can rule out the water pump since the OEM impeller is plastic. However, having said that, if someone replaced it with a non-OEM pump it might be metal and could be the source -

*Water Pump*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 2&t=205529


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## tttony (Dec 21, 2014)

> I am concerned it could be small ends, oil pump, timing chain tensioner or even turbo bearing starting to fail.


The BWA engines have a timing belt not a chain (there is however a short chain that connects the two camshafts together).

Wear of the small ends is unlikely, did you mean the big ends? Significantly worn big ends will produce a very noticeable rumble. Again wear of the big ends on an engine of your mileage is unlikely unless oil has run very low or oil changes have been neglected in the past.


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## TT'sRevenge (Feb 28, 2021)

SwissJetPilot said:


> @ *Revit & TT'sRevenge* - I'm Just trying to think what would cause the "glitter" in the oil. I think we can rule out the water pump since the OEM impeller is plastic. However, having said that, if someone replaced it with a non-OEM pump it might be metal and could be the source -
> 
> *Water Pump*
> https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 2&t=205529


Hmm not sure how the water would get in the oil though, not like the head gasket is an issue, and no coolant flows through the intake mani so nothing to worry about there. Coincidentally I actually changed the water pump too when I did the timing belt--was still the original water pump with the plastic impeller. I actually changed it to a HEPU with a metal impeller.

I'm going to keep on truckin' for now, hopefully nothing bad happens! I'd pretty much have to pull the engine apart at this point to go any further/find anything so I guess if it turns into a catastrophic failure that'll be done at that time lol. Obviously don't want that to happen but if it comes to that, hey it's a car it can be taken apart, put back together, be happy again...unlike most human relationships :lol:


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

Fair point, but just trying to think of any possible source, especially if this isn't a car you've owned from the start, where past problems (failed head gasket, leaking oil cooler, etc.) could have contributed to contamination in the engine from somewhere else.


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## Revit (Jan 2, 2020)

I didnt drain the oil this weekend but planning to have another look this weekend, does anyone know if I can get oil pressure reading from the OBD2 ? I would be interested to see if it is in the normal range. I am sure its not the big ends as one started no knocks and runs perfectly at all rpms without the sounds


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

It's not so much the OBDII device, per se, as much as it's the output from the *Oil Pressure Switch (F1)* itself.

I stand to be corrected, but I don't believe the Oil Pressure Switch output is variable, meaning it only triggers low oil pressure at a preset value which then illuminates the dash pod *Oil Pressure Warning Lamp (K3)* to warn the driver.

As noted in this previous post by *FNChaos* -

*Aftermarket gauges - help!*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1955311

_Several companies make boost tap adapters that screw into your intake manifold for analog gauges, or you can get digital reading off of your ODB2 port (for multi-gauges like P3). Oil pressure can be taken off of your turbo oil feed line by adding a banjo bolt adapter._


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## Revit (Jan 2, 2020)

Thanks disappointing they dont have an oil pressure output even without a gauge especially with the turbo but its cheaper I suppose. I will get on to it and post a response soon. My gut is either the hydraulic tappets or something activated with oil pressure but the pressure is dropping straight away as it happens everytime its started.


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## TT'sRevenge (Feb 28, 2021)

Revit said:


> Thanks disappointing they dont have an oil pressure output even without a gauge especially with the turbo but its cheaper I suppose. I will get on to it and post a response soon. My gut is either the hydraulic tappets or something activated with oil pressure but the pressure is dropping straight away as it happens everytime its started.


Did you do the screwdriver test on the cam chain side? The chain tensioner is also hydraulic--it has some spring pressure but not too much; if that spring is weak and or if the guide is cracked/broken, this may definitely cause the noise. It's a more common failure point than lifters but could be a lifter just the same. Not all of your lifters will go bad at the same time either, so you'd have to determine which. The thing is a lifter that's only noisy at startup a few seconds, isn't really a problem. If the noise stops after a short time, it should be fine.

You could try running products like Seafoam, or an engine flush (like LiquiMoly flush, etc.) through the engine prior to an oil change to see if it can clear it up.

The noise is likely unrelated to the particles though, in any event. If you had an issue with the rod bearings it's an unmistakable noise that doesn't go away. I checked mine anyway (I didn't have any noise plus the engine passed the "pushdown" test on all cylinders at TDC, with no movement) but it was a lot of work to pull the pan, pull the balancer, and take off the caps, just to find out they're perfectly fine.


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

+1 *TT'sRevenge* - A failing tensioner, worn guide rail or even chain stretch are the most likely culprits if you're getting that "can of marbles" sound from the engine. You can run a search on YouTube for "timing chain noise" as there are dozens of examples to see if your engine sounds like the ones posted.

As an FYI, some production years of the 2.0 TFSI have oil consumption issues. This article is worth a read -

_"The 2.0 and 1.8 TFSI engines prior to 2012. Engine codes known to be affected include CAEB, CDNC and CNDC (list being updated). The problem seems to have been corrected when the facelift was released. But all A5 TFSI engines before that, i.e. 2008 - 2012, are susceptible."_

*Audi 2.0 TFSI Engine Oil Consumption*
http://casestudies.atlanticmotorcar.com ... orrection/

There were also issues with early VAG tensioners which you can read about in the post below. You (or your mechanic) can perform visual inspection by pulling the plug on the timing chain cover and taking a look inside to see if you have the early version tensioner.

*Tensioner Faulty 2010 2L*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1835623

These two videos will show you what's involved for both the inspection and replacement -

*How to Check 2.0T TSI Timing Chain Tensioner*





*2.0t TSI Timing Chain Tensioner Update*


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

Just stumbled across this Youtube which you may find interesting. You can fast forward to time stamp 15:00 to see how the tensioner has failed, resulting in slack in the timing chain which resulted in the valves crashing into the pistons -

*Why Volkswagen Engines Fail*


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## tttony (Dec 21, 2014)

The OP has a BWA engine and therefore a timing belt not a chain.


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

@ *tttony* - Good to know, and thanks for clarifying! 

*DIY: 2.0T FSI Timing Belt Replacement*
https://mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.ph ... msg1094166

*Workshop Manual for Cambelt Change*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 9&t=998449


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## Revit (Jan 2, 2020)

Oil change no 2 after 4 weeks, the oil has more gold metal glitter / small flakes, the engine is running perfectly no issues at all apart from the slight rattle on start up but only for half a second to 1 second but these metal bits are bothering me! Next will check the fuel pump cam follower. Any ideas on how to check the turbo bearing? can I do it in situ? and feel the end float?


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## TT'sRevenge (Feb 28, 2021)

Revit said:


> Oil change no 2 after 4 weeks, the oil has more gold metal glitter / small flakes, the engine is running perfectly no issues at all apart from the slight rattle on start up but only for half a second to 1 second but these metal bits are bothering me! Next will check the fuel pump cam follower. Any ideas on how to check the turbo bearing? can I do it in situ? and feel the end float?


On the cold side, the turbo inlet and outlet are too long and small (diameter) to get your hand into to feel the turbo CHRA. It's basically goose neck in and out so not really anything you can do there to get your hand in. You might be able to get some tool in there along with a boroscope but this is going to be quite tricky...and require a scope lol. Only other way is to take the exhaust off of the hot side and then that side of the impeller is exposed and you can feel for play in the turbo/shaft. This is also much easier said than done and is going to require removing the rear shield thing at the top of the engine (which requires draining coolant IIRC), to get a good look at and get clearance for the flange nuts. Plus I'm pretty sure you have to get at least one of them from underneath. Unless you're going to replace the factory cats with an aftermarket DP, I would hesitate to go through all that work--it's a _lot_ of work. I did it because I replaced the DP. Also on the quattro cars it's even more fun because you have to unbolt the prop shaft and set it aside. Fun times 

The cam follower may be worn and you _should_ definitely check that for other reasons, but there is no brass/copper in the follower AFAIK (nor is there in the rod bearings BTW) so it shouldn't be the source of the glitter.

I checked a lot of stuff and came up with nothing. Feel free to do the same for the peace of mind but I dunno I'm just shrugging my shoulders now and forgetting about it. Apart from pulling the engine and tearing into it, there's not much else to do (in my case). I figure if that day comes it'll be when a bearing spins or something. Then I guess I'll have a full-winter project to work on :lol:


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## Revit (Jan 2, 2020)

Cam Follower for the fuel pump looks scratched up ordered a new OE hopefully will get it tomorrow the cam looks fine but hopefully this is the source of the glitter in the oil. Will change it again in a few weeks car still running like a dream.


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## FNChaos (Nov 30, 2016)

That cam follower is well past worn.  
Not sure how it got so scratched up? Even worn followers tend to look 'polished' since they can rotate as they ride along the cam. I would give you cam lobe another long hard look, not just for scratches but flat spots and curved edges.

Personally I wouldn't drive another mile until I had a replacement.


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## Revit (Jan 2, 2020)

Replacement in new o ring seal as well, I was a bit concerned of not over tightening the pump bolts so I will give it a test drive tomorrow and check em again! lets see if the glitter in the oil keeps coming! The cam lobe looked fine to be honest although without undoing the cam cover I wouldn't be able to see if there are any flat spots. To be fair it is less tickie now but there is still that momentary rattle on start up like the lifters are filling with oil for a split second! See how we go!


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## FNChaos (Nov 30, 2016)

Revit said:


> Replacement in new o ring seal as well, I was a bit concerned of not over tightening the pump bolts so I will give it a test drive tomorrow and check em again! !


[smiley=book2.gif] Torque value for the three HPFP retaining bolts is 10 Nm (7.38 ft lbs or 88.5 in lbs).

If you plan on frequently checking your tappet for wear you might consider installing a stud kit in place of the retaining bolts. Less chance of striping out the head.


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## Revit (Jan 2, 2020)

Thanks, was concerned about how tight for the fuel nut and schrader valve but no leaks so far it is has had a few hundred miles will change the oil again in a month to see if we are still getting the glitter in the oil!


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## TT'sRevenge (Feb 28, 2021)

Revit said:


> Replacement in new o ring seal as well, I was a bit concerned of not over tightening the pump bolts so I will give it a test drive tomorrow and check em again! lets see if the glitter in the oil keeps coming! The cam lobe looked fine to be honest although without undoing the cam cover I wouldn't be able to see if there are any flat spots. To be fair it is less tickie now but there is still that momentary rattle on start up like the lifters are filling with oil for a split second! See how we go!


That follower is not that worn. (Look up some pictures of "EA113 worn follower" or "FSI worn follower" and you'll see much worse.) It _is_ in need of replacing but it's not really worn, it's just starting to really wear. The black coating (DLC) is the best indicator of when to replace--once it _starts_ to wear away, wear is accelerated after that. Yours had the black coating basically gone so good thing you changed it when you did.

That said that follower hasn't worn almost any metal into the oil; and as I mentioned there's no copper/brass _in_ the follower either, so even if you had worn it through, it wouldn't have caused the copper-looking glitter. Even if there was copper in it, there's probably far more glitter in the oil (if it's visible as you say), than could have came from the follower if it's only lightly worn there with the DLC gone.


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## Mattfoskett101 (Sep 2, 2021)

Hi there just out curiosity, did you take the engine out of the car when you stripped the bottom end as I'm wanted to do the same to mine as I have suspected thrust washers wear, any help would be great as I just want to know how big of a job is it


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## Mattfoskett101 (Sep 2, 2021)

Hi there just out curiosity, did you take the engine out of the car when you stripped the bottom end as I'm wanted to do the same to mine as I have suspected thrust washers wear, any help would be great as I just want to know how big of a job is it


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## TT'sRevenge (Feb 28, 2021)

Mattfoskett101 said:


> Hi there just out curiosity, did you take the engine out of the car when you stripped the bottom end as I'm wanted to do the same to mine as I have suspected thrust washers wear, any help would be great as I just want to know how big of a job is it


No, I did pretty much as much as I could _without_ pulling the engine.

You can pull the oil pan and balancer assembly to inspect the bottom end as I did, with the engine still in the car. You can replace the rod bearings like this easily, and can probably even replace the mains with some "old mechanics tricks" to get the top bearing shell out of the mains (check YT). The mains are only two-bolt so you don't have to come in from the side of the block to unbolt or anything. As mentioned I didn't fiddle with the mains, I left them as-is.

A few notes/tips (some may be obvious to you depending on your experience but I'll mention as much as I can anyway):

-Depending on model and options you may have the "noise isolation frame" (which is essentially like a strut brace/stiffening frame) that sits underneath the oil pan. It's a bit of extra effort but only 8 (or it could have been 12) bolts to remove, though you'll also need to remove the fender liner stuff to get to them. Frame/brace should be removable inside an hour.

-When you go to remove the oil pan there are two "hidden" bolts and one of them is more tricky than the other. You really must have a long, *ball end* allen (hex) stem/socket to remove these. Actually I was able to get them _out_ with a standard-end hex but I was lucky, when I went to install them again I had no choice but to get the ball-end type.

-There are 10 fasteners that come out of the balancer assembly in order to remove. These bolts must be replaced (you're not supposed to reuse them as they are TTY). Not every single bolt but most of them--check the S/M (all posted here on the forum) for which ones.

-If you remove the rod caps/ends, same thing--you *must* replace the bolts as these are also TTY and should never be reused esp. on a critical part like rod caps. Also do not lose the order of the caps, they MUST go back on, on the exact same connecting rod and the exact same position/orientation. I marked mine but be careful as there's so much oil down there (prepare to get rained on lol) they could just wipe off. Myself even with marks I also removed each individually and did not remove more than one at a time, to be sure no mistakes could be made here. This is_ incredibly_ important, which you may well know but just mentioning it anyway.

-Be sure to have a bottle of pre-lube/assembly lube on hand...for reassembly heh.

-When undoing the oil pump/balancer chain, you remove only the oil pump sprocket (which is the forward one). Do not attempt to remove the sprocket on the shafts, it is not supposed to be removed. Recommended not to remove the chain either unless you are replacing it--just leave hanging. In funny fashion the S/M tells you to hold the tension off the chain with an allen wrench in the tensioner but for locking the balance shaft sprocket on re-assembly they tell you to use some special tool but you can just use...another larger allen wrench lol. Or if you want a rounded surface any small screwdriver shaft, right angle screwdriver, etc. will work.

-Remember the oil pump is not "timed" and neither is the chain itself--the orientation or position/link is irrelevant. But, the balance shafts _are_ timed, but only in the sense that they must be installed in the correct position (otherwise the engine will be out of balance). Upon reassembly you have to make sure the engine is at TDC on #1 and the shafts are at the correct position with the "weights" on the correct end with reference to the crankshaft. Therefore when you are reassembling, remember you can turn the _oil pump_ sprocket as much as you like to align it but do NOT allow the balance shaft assembly to spin. There is a different coloured chain link and an arrow on the oil pump sprocket but these are meaningless/useless--basically they're used when assembling the engine at the factory I think. There is however a very small stamping (basically a single dot that looks like it was made by a punch/scriber) which you can use on the balance shaft sprocket to make sure it's in the correct position. This does work but it's hard to see. The S/M makes it out to be a much larger marking than it is, but perhaps some parts do have a better marking, mine was a "now where is this mark exactly?!??" situation lol.

The above^ sounds complicated but honestly it _isn't_. It kind of comes to you when you are doing it so the explanation may sound foreign at first. I actually had a eureka moment when I realised what the service manual was saying by saying you can't allow the shafts to turn in particular--it means you can turn the oil pump as much as you like. For whatever reason I was trying to prevent both sprockets from turning and was having a difficult time when I realised "ohhh right the pump is not timed" lol.

-Do not forget to put the oil chain drain/splash guard back into place. It's somewhat loosely held in place by three little clips and can easily get dislodged when re-installing the oil pan, so be careful not to hit it with the oil pan or anything.

Re: The balancer itself.
Also when you have the balancer out you should definitely check the shafts for any lateral play! If there is any significant movement, it's toast. It's a known failure point and incredibly expensive to replace (even used ones aren't too cheap but not as ridiculous as a new balancer which is like $4k or something  ). Remember the shafts spin at 2x the engine speed so at redline they are at nearly 14k RPM! They are barely engineered to spin at that speed so increasing the redline (via tunes) is not recommended. The shaft bearings are not repairable; the shafts cannot be removed without cutting them out and destroying them and/or the balancer altogether.

There's a couple ways to "delete" the balance shafts but personally I don't recommend doing this. However if your balancer is messed and you don't want to put the money into replacing the module, it's an idea. After 185k kms, mine was in perfect shape so I wouldn't be too worried but it does happen.

It should be obvious but inspect the oil pan for debris and thoroughly clean before reinstalling. Use a good sealant (recommend Permatex Ultra Black) to reseal the oil pan. Don't go bananas with it, a fine 2-3mm wide bead is what you need here--a little goes a long way because once it is squished it expands. Seen far too many "mechanics" slather the stuff onto thing like oil pans, don't do that madness.


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## Mattfoskett101 (Sep 2, 2021)

Thanks for that that seems perfect and just what I was looking to hear, I don't actually have a tt, I've got an Audi s3 8p but I'm guessing it'll be the same type of thing, going to give it a go to repair by putting just new thrust washers, but I'll measure them to see how worn they are whether or not to get bigger ones, does the balance shaft come out and is there a mark on it to tell me where to line it back up, thanks a lot really appreciate this, kind regards matt


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## Mattfoskett101 (Sep 2, 2021)

Also what's the reason you didn't take out the big end main caps ?


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## TT'sRevenge (Feb 28, 2021)

Mattfoskett101 said:


> Also what's the reason you didn't take out the big end main caps ?


I did take off the big end caps if you're referring to the connecting rods (I guess they say "big ends" more in UK). I didn't remove the main caps though.

TBH I didn't want to mess with the crankshaft after I found everything else seemed A-OK. I did a lot of work on the car while doing this stuff early this spring*. Basically everything I took apart was seemingly perfectly fine. I wiped a clean white cloth all around the crank, rods, near the journals, and I wasn't picking up any of the copper sparkles. I looked all inside the engine with a strong light from below and couldn't see anything wrong there either. I can't imagine with the fact that the car has a tune on it now (IE Stage 2 w/downpipe and rebuilt HPFP), and the way I drive it, that one of the main bearings is bad--it would have spun by now for sure lol. Or the engine would have let go. I mean knock on wood and all but the engine is smooth as heck and even when I went for the tune when the guy started up the car he commented that it ran very smooth and quiet (well minus the rackety EA113 injectors) and was surprised it has as many kms on it as it does.

Also typically if a bearing is bad for a while the cap will have a burned or scorched appearance indicating it had gotten really hot--I really didn't see any of that either. As I said they are only 2-bolt mains so I could have removed the caps but I just didn't feel like then buying new main bolts and going to the trouble after everything was checking out. I mean the nice thing is you can probably replace all the major engine bearings just through the bottom, with the motor in the car. One might say hey you could have changed all those with so many kms on the engine but at that point it was going to amount to a bunch of extra cost and time to source and ship the parts. I felt like I'd done a whole bunch of work there underneath for what seemed to be no reason at all. I was glad I checked but had to move on with doing the rest of the work. I just got the new rod bearing cap bolts and the new balancer bolts, reassembled it and called it a day.

*The main items I did were things like:
-Timing belt/water pump/tensioner
-Cam chain and tensioner
-Valve cover gasket (was badly leaking into #1 spark plug hole and had to come off to do the cam chain anyway)
-Intake mani off, cleaned intake valves/ports, pulled injectors and cleaned tips--new injector seals for reassembly
-factory downpipe pulled, turbo and wastegate checked for play/wear, aftermarket downpipe install
-HPFP rebuild w/autotech piston
-New coils
-Other odds and ends

Notes on what I found off the top of my head:
-Timing belt was beyond the interval so yes it had to be replaced. Water pump looked great, probably would have lasted another 180k kms, but I changed it anyway. Existing coolant was clean but obviously it was mostly drained and replaced with these services.
-Cam chain and tensioner--absolutely fine, not even an need to change them. The tensioner guides had no signs of cracking even. Changed them anyway since I bought the parts and did all the work to get to them. No significant sludge or buildup in the valvetrain--very clean, oil was changed on time in this car throughout its life.
-Spark plugs--perfectly fine, I didn't even change these they looked so good (think they were changed within the past year by PO)
-Cam follower--had worn down DLC (the black stuff), was definitely time to replace. Cam lobe had normal (minimal) wear. Vacuum pump good, no leaks.
-PCV--no way to tell but suspected it may have caused the valve cover leak by blowing out the gasket there which is somewhat common on EA113s--replaced with OE part for good measure.
-Balance shaft assembly in great shape--no play, spun smoothly/freely, oil pump shaft the same. Oil pickup screen very clean.
-Again the rod bearings were all in great shape, just put them back in and buttoned it up.

Anyway best of luck if you give it a shot to inspect the bottom end--pls update later and let us know what you find with yours!


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## TT'sRevenge (Feb 28, 2021)

Mattfoskett101 said:


> Thanks for that that seems perfect and just what I was looking to hear, I don't actually have a tt, I've got an Audi s3 8p but I'm guessing it'll be the same type of thing, going to give it a go to repair by putting just new thrust washers, but I'll measure them to see how worn they are whether or not to get bigger ones, does the balance shaft come out and is there a mark on it to tell me where to line it back up, thanks a lot really appreciate this, kind regards matt


Oh sorry yes to answer these questions...
--Yep 8P S3 would be the same engine--EA113 HO.
--Oh also I did plasti-gage the rod/journal tolerances. They were all well within spec.
--I didn't really think about the thrust bearings but I didn't find any lateral play in the crank either. 
--The balance shafts are within the "balancer module". You cannot separate the shafts from the module at all. The oil pump and pickup tube can be serviced, however. If the balance shafts have lateral play/bad bearings, the entire module must be replaced. Again this thing is _very_ expensive.
--There is the small little indent on the balance shaft drive sprocket. It's very small though the S/M pretends like there is a large marking. It might be that different runs of parts had better markings mine was hilariously hard to see. I have pictures if you would like. You don't even really 100% need that marking anyway you just need an understanding of where the balance shafts should be in relation to the engine and to make sure it doesn't turn (this is accomplished by locking the sprocket as mentioned but I mean when you are mating it up to the engine it could turn so be aware of that). The marking will work regardless though, so you should be alright. As I said it sounds a lot more complicated than it is.


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## Mattfoskett101 (Sep 2, 2021)

Very interesting, yes I've had issues with the thrust bearings before so I'm going to replace just in case and gives me a chance to inspect bottom end my only concern is removing the bearing at the top and thrust washers with the crank still installed I saw someone about putting a small pin through the oil feed hole and turning the crank does that seem about right? Or is there an easier way on these, also unsure if I can fit the bearing back in with the thrust washers in. My only goal really is to change these washers and inspect everything else, I've bought the whole bolt kit for pretty much everything from the dealers, hoping everything will go smoothly and I can report back and thanks so much for the help!!! These engines seem to be a complex design and a lot to go wrong ahah


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## TT'sRevenge (Feb 28, 2021)

Mattfoskett101 said:


> Very interesting, yes I've had issues with the thrust bearings before so I'm going to replace just in case and gives me a chance to inspect bottom end my only concern is removing the bearing at the top and thrust washers with the crank still installed I saw someone about putting a small pin through the oil feed hole and turning the crank does that seem about right?


Yeah that's what I was talking about, "old mechanics tricks". Search on YT for "replace main bearings with engine in" and you'll come up with similar ideas. I've seen some use cut-off/ground down screws that are bent at an angle then inserted in the oil hole in the crank. Then you turn the crank and it will push out the upper bearing shell. Gotta be careful you don't use anything that protrudes from the hole more than the thickness of the bearing, otherwise you risk scratching or damaging the journal.



Mattfoskett101 said:


> Or is there an easier way on these, also unsure if I can fit the bearing back in with the thrust washers in. My only goal really is to change these washers and inspect everything else, I've bought the whole bolt kit for pretty much everything from the dealers, hoping everything will go smoothly and I can report back and thanks so much for the help!!! These engines seem to be a complex design and a lot to go wrong ahah


The thurst bearings spin in their races (or whatever you want to call where they sit) normally so I think you'd be able to change them okay. Are you really getting any symptoms of thrust bearing wear? It seems to me this is more a "murdered" part than one that just wears and fails with time. Meaning something had to cause them to fail or prematurely wear which would need to be corrected otherwise new ones will just go bad again.

If you have a manual S3 (like clutch pedal manual) you can have someone actuate the clutch in/out and then watch for lateral crank movement--that's a telltale sign that the thrust bearings are done for. If you have a DSG then obv. you can't really do that. Still, I don't think thrust bearings are a big failure/replacement item on these engines. Heck not even the rod bearings--not like many BMW designs where rod bearing replacement is basically a maintenance item.

As for complexity I'd actually say it's a pretty simple design. Everything seems quite accessible in-car and from below, 2-bolt mains, the timing belt is basically like changing an accessory belt as it's like a SOHC timing belt due to the chain on the other side. Absolute worst thing about doing the timing belt is the damn engine mount you have to remove which was a nightmare for me to get out!

For some more info about the engine internals, I recommend IE's rundown:
https://performancebyie.com/blogs/ie-au ... bottom-end


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## Mattfoskett101 (Sep 2, 2021)

Yeah all I plan on doing is replace the thrust bearing and check the crank end play as I've had a s3 before this and the clutch was sticking half way so I dropped the gearbox to find excessive wear on the crankshaft (either the washers had fallen out or something not good, it needed a new block so I bought. A newer s3 hoping that all those old issues are gone and I've noticed the crank pulley when you lever it moves a small amount, and since knowing this I can feel some kind of binding on the clutch (just ever so slightly and not sure if anyone else would be able to feel it) and it's just been worrying me so I'm going to go ahead and have a look and replace the washers? Holding this will go smoothly lol, unless I find anything else that's not good. (fingers crossed)


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## shonky.geeza (Nov 19, 2020)

I'm interested in getting a OBDeleven scan device so I can look at the measuring blocks as shown in the post by @SwissJetPilot below.

*Check your 2.0t TSI VW | Audi for Timing Chain Stretch!*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtTOGPo ... eAutoParts 

Can anyone advise if the entry level OBDeleven scanner will give me this information or do I need to buy in at a higher level for more credits?


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