# Rejecting a 2nd hand vehicle



## DPG (Dec 7, 2005)

Anyone done it? What were the circumstances?

I bought a car from a trader at the end of March and the EML came on after 4 days.

Took it back to the garage I bought it from twice (60 mile journey) and they tried to fix it only for the light to re appear the next day or so. I advised the garage I bought the car form that I wanted Audi to take a look.

Main dealer has just phoned to say the Cat has gone and it will cost £3800. Now obviously I told Audi to negotiate with the garage I bought it from but should they refuse to pay I will be looking at rejecting the car.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, Depends how many miles the TT has covered & should the Cat has lasted much longer.
As we know Audi will usually find the most expensive cure, do you have any faults codes that show Cat is the problem.
Perhaps you require another independent diagnosis, because it will not cost £3800 to replace the Cat.
Hoggy.


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## DPG (Dec 7, 2005)

It's done 26k miles and is just over 4 years old.

The specialist it went to twice has swapped O2 sensors already.

Error code:
P0420 - Catalyst system efficiency (bank 1). Error Message : Below threshold. Static faults.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, Low miles for a Cat to fail during normal use then. If proven Cat is the problem, I'm sure trader will replace it them selves as the Audi quote is ridiculous as usual. Keep calm initially.
Hoggy


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, If not fit for purpose & from a trader you should be able to reject quite easily, as they are not allowed to keep fixing it.
Hoggy.


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## leopard (May 1, 2015)

Most 2nd hand warranties exclude catalytic converters and even with a main dealer it's a grey area.
I doubt very much you'll be able to claim for an OE part from the garage anyway.
At best a pattern part should suffice for ~ £200 + labour.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

I don't think this would have anything to do with any warranty though. This is about whether or not the car was fit for purpose when sold. Arguably any fault showing within 4 days of picking up the car, particularly one that can't be considered normal wear and tear for a car this age and mileage, is the responsibility of the dealer to fix.


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## leopard (May 1, 2015)

I sort of agree with you but we all know the difficulties involved with 2nd hand vehicles and their associated dealers when it comes to getting things rectified,
especially with items classed as "consumables" although I admit there are exceptions.

Hopefully the OP won't have a fight on his hands but he'll have to manage expectations as I don't think OE parts ( and certainly not £3800 worth  ) will be used if a repair is forthcoming and so will probably have to compromise.

OP let us know the outcome on this one.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Agreed. I rejected a 2nd hand BMW 645ci from an independent dealer once because of an intermittent fault which caused the brake servo to suddenly stop working without warning, then would rectify itself shortly after. Pretty terrifying when you're approaching a busy junction. The dealer was willing to pay for certain repairs, but not the repair I was demanding (they, and BMW, thought it was the master cylinder, I was sure it was related to the vacuum pump/hoses) and I wasn't happy to be their crash test dummy driving around waiting to discover they were wrong about the cause.

As it turns out, BMW recalled all their 4.4l v8 models a couple of years later because of vacuum hose failures causing brake servo loss. Too late to help me though.

So, because I wasn't happy with the repair they offered, I insisted on a full refund. They were a bit shitty about it, but they paid up in the end.


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## DPG (Dec 7, 2005)

My car is currently with Audi awaiting a decision. There has been an issue with the warranty as an admin error meant that the wrong one was arranged. Formula 2 instead of formula x.

Formula x would have covered everything.

I'll keep this thread updated with progress but I'm hoping that it won't be costing me anything


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

It is a criminal offence to sell an unroadworthy vehicle.


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## leopard (May 1, 2015)

John-H said:


> It is a criminal offence to sell an unroadworthy vehicle.


 :lol: 
So is accepting cash in hand and not declaring earnings to HMRC but it still goes on all the time.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

leopard said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> > It is a criminal offence to sell an unroadworthy vehicle.
> ...


The relevant point is that if an offence has been committed then restitution can more easily be obtained. For example with the option of reporting the pre-existing fault and circumstances to trading standards.


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## leopard (May 1, 2015)

John-H said:


> leopard said:
> 
> 
> > John-H said:
> ...


I know exactly what you're getting at but we don't live in an ideal world.You have only got to watch an episode of Watchdog to realise this.

There are all sorts of excuses the garage could come up with for example,that it was in a totally roadworthy condition when they sold it and the customer must have done something detrimental to it's roadworthiness etc,making it a long and protracted procedure to get anything out of them,Trading Standards or not.

In fact I'd wager that Trading Standards wouldn't want to get involved in a solitary case and would probably refer the OP to the Small Claims Court such is their workload and non "customer facing" policy these days.

I'm not arguing this will happen to the OP but it's not unknown certainly.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Check out the Consumer Rights act. Within such a short space of time it's up to the seller to prove that the fault was not pre-existing. Add to that the fact that selling a vehicle in an unroadworthy condition is an offence then it would appear to be a pretty good case in my humble opinion.

I'd be politely letting the garage realise the position they are in and if satisfactory progress wasn't made then I'd be enlisting the help of legal advice and representation which many people have free through household or motor insurance (always worth opting for) and it will get sorted.

Presuming a garage will always wriggle out of it is counsel for giving up and being taken advantage of. It's always worth trying.

I remember asking the council for damage to my car from roadworks. All handled by legal services. Didn't cost me anything.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

One thing the OP needs to bear in mind - and this seems to be a common misconception whenever these thread pop up - is that all this has nothing to do with the 3rd party warranty that is often supplied with used car purchases. The dealer has a responsibility to supply a product which is fit for purpose and this is all covered by your standard consumer rights. Any warranty they might chose to provide is *in addition to* those rights.

So, if the warranty you have (or will have when they sort out the apparent mix up) covers the work, then by all means use that to get the car sorted if that's the fastest or most convenient route, but don't allow them to convince you that this is your only option. They are legally responsible for the condition of the car when it was sold to you and even if you had no warranty at all, they'd be legally responsible for repairing the car (or refunding your money).


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## ashfinlayson (Oct 26, 2013)

If you bought the car < 30 days ago, it's come up with a fault and Audi are quoting ££££ to fix, just tell the dealer you bought it from that you're rejecting it, no brainer.


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