# Pair of sixes



## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Fame for Audi Race-Chasing Duo










Pair of Audi RS6 Avants on Track Duty for BTCC 2004

Britain's most famous pair of Audi RS 6 quattro Avant models is appearing on TV over 10 weekends this year in a support role for the British Touring Car Championship. The bi-turbo, V8, quattro four-wheel-drive Audis deliver 450PS - 150PS more than the BTCC racers in the series - ensuring that they can more than hold their own on the track.

With the exception of the recently launched RS6 quattro plus Avant, these are the fastest road-going Audi estate cars ever imported to the UK, capable of accelerating to 62mph in just 4.7 seconds and reaching a top speed of up to 175 mph with speed limiter removed. Having chased 15 rounds already this season, they will be in action again for Rounds 16 to 18 at Croft on July 25th.

Series organisers chose the RS 6 quattro Avant because they needed safety and medical cars capable of keeping pace with the powerful 300PS racing saloons for the start of each race, and also able to transport vital medical and safety equipment to the scene of any incident within seconds.


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## r14n (Jan 10, 2003)

One of our members drives / is a passenger in one of them on the track, most week-ends.

And he gets to take it home now and again, 
although he hasn't been kind enough to take me for a spin yet. :x

( Last week-end he was "lucky enough" to be demoted into a Rover ZTT )


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Lucky sods, getting to drive an RS6 as a company car


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

They're just so common. I saw 5 in a row in that colour last week. :roll:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Anyone seen an RS6 plus yet? The pics in the blue with black highlights and anthracite wheels look good, as does the improved engine cooling and boosts specs plus beefed up brakes and sports suspension.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=86&h=0&t=93536


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> Anyone seen an RS6 plus yet? The pics in the blue with black highlights and anthracite wheels look good, as does the improved engine cooling and boosts specs plus beefed up brakes and sports suspension.
> 
> http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=86&h=0&t=93536


First ones are due to arrive in about 6-8 weeks. If the rumours are true, which knowing Audi will not be, the UK will only be getting about 60 RS6+'s & all this allocation has already been ordered so Audi are taking no more orders. This said, Audi did exactly the same with the standard RS6 & only 500 of each model (Saloon & Avant) were meant to be produced, but that ended up being Audi B/S.

The price hike in most peoples minds does not give good value only BHP is up, as torque figure has not increased  ) The cooling of the standard car is very good, as is the handling & to make the car even firmer is in most peoples mind a bad thing as the car is already close to being too firm. The uprated brakes are a good idea, but when you take into acount that you can upgrade both the brakes & the power with much better aftermarket offerings, it makes the + look poor value. As you know, mine has closer to 520BHP & a chunky hike in torque & that only cost me Â£3000 & for another Â£2000 i could have replaced the brakes with a 996 Turbo set-up, which all in all would have outperformed the RS6+ hands down.

The other down side is that the RS6+ is only available as an Avant & i've never been that keen on estate cars (my own opinion), this may hopefully give rise to no negative residuals for the Saloon RS6's.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone seen an RS6 plus yet? The pics in the blue with black highlights and anthracite wheels look good, as does the improved engine cooling and boosts specs plus beefed up brakes and sports suspension.
> ...


Good points Paul, although I'd say that additional cooling power in a a large capacity turbo lump has to be a good thing, particularly when operating in high ambient temperatures for conistent power delivery, and for longer term engine longevity.

The road tests all allude to the RS6+ being more a harmonious package and that the brakes/suspension changes all work well, with the engine smoother too - and, lets face it, it is not very often one sees Audis in tests excelling in the 'harmonious package dep't', so that is a good result.

I guess the factory warranty will attract most thoses who would not otherwise upgrade their cars, and also that the price premium will not really be relevant to the majority (of JKs and Nick Masons etc) who will probably buy them as 3-4-5th cars and tend to not be price sensitive. Lucky gits.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Paul does make a lot of good points, but the simple fact of the matter is that there are always going to be people (myself included) that wouldn't dream of modifying a brand new car. I suppose you could argue that if they can afford to buy one new, then they can afford to fix it if it goes wrong, but that's not the point.

Also, you forgot to mention that the RS6+ isn't restricted to 155mph.

The reason they're only available as an Avant is that they're still producing the the old shape Avant bodyshell whereas the the new A6 saloon is already in production. Presumably this is to 'use up' some of that stock.

Look out for a full review in the latest absoluTTe...

:wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Kell said:


> Paul does make a lot of good points, but the simple fact of the matter is that there are always going to be people (myself included) that wouldn't dream of modifying a brand new car. I suppose you could argue that if they can afford to buy one new, then they can afford to fix it if it goes wrong, but that's not the point.
> 
> Also, you forgot to mention that the RS6+ isn't restricted to 155mph.
> 
> ...


Cheers & some good points made by yourself, although the top speed increase is only brought about by the RS6+ remap which only appears to move the speed limiter from 155 - 175MPH, yet removing the speed limiter on the standard RS6 brings in a top speed of over 175MPH, as per your original posting on here. All this extra power does not in fact deliver any extra performance on the road, as with the Torque remaining unchanged in the RS6+ the 0-60 sprint time is exactly the same in both cars. So the basics are that the RS6+ is a slightly modified RS6 courtesy of a re-map & all this does is move the speed limiter up to 175MPH without actually changing the 0-60 or capable top speed of the car  

This raises the issue of what exactly does the extra Â£9000  buy you & until i get the opportunity to drive one to see if it does in fact drive any different, its basically slightly improved braking, slightly stiffer & 10mm lowered suspension, some additional cooling for the turbos, powder coating on the wheels & de-chromed the car . Now in my mind, that does not represent good value.

Their is the new car vs old car arguement, as you can no longer purchase an RS6 either Avant or Saloon but even so against list prices a Â£9000 increase for very little extra does seem to be taking the pi$$ slightly.

Even with the extra power, the new RS6+ will not even come close to matching my car either on the road or the track & i paid about Â£18000 less than the price for a new RS6+ even with the modification work doen on my car.

Horses for courses really, but i for one even if i had oodles of available cash to change would not move to a brand new RS6+ as the value prop is weak against a standard RS6. One thing that has changed for the good though is the residuals for the RS6 saloon, which have strengthened slightly over the last 2 months & i can only assume that as the RS6+ is only available in Avant form it will make the RS6 saloon just that bit more desirable


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

TBH Paul - I think I'd 'settle' for yours given half a chance.

Beautiful car.

Not that I was ever jealous. :roll:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Kell said:


> TBH Paul - I think I'd 'settle' for yours given half a chance.
> 
> Beautiful car.
> 
> Not that I was ever jealous. :roll:


Thank you very much Sir 

The RS6+ debate is quite an interesting one, as it smacks of Audi Marketing bullshit more than anything else & quite a few RS6 owners are more than a little pi$$ed off about it (i'm more than happy though 8) ) but for those that purchased a standard RS6 at full list price in the last 6 months, only to find out that a perceived better RS6 is coming out has made waves.

Reminds me in some ways of the TT S-Line scenario from a couple of years ago & how Audi & their stealers do often act in a somewhat underhand way.

Audi always quoted that only 1000 RS6's would ever be made (500 Saloon & 500 Avant) so making it a very limited edition production car. Audi then realised that more people than they expected had enough cash/desire to purchase RS6's, so they ended up producing closer to 2500 units. Kind of makes ones Limited Edition car slightly less Limited.

This don't bother me in the slightest, as i purchased mine as a 4 month old Demonstrator & saved over Â£10,000 which allowed me to have her Fettled  & as i intend to keep the Beast for at least 3 years, i won't suffer either way.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Kell said:


> Paul does make a lot of good points, but the simple fact of the matter is that there are always going to be people (myself included) that wouldn't dream of modifying a brand new car. I suppose you could argue that if they can afford to buy one new, then they can afford to fix it if it goes wrong, but that's not the point.
> 
> Also, you forgot to mention that the RS6+ isn't restricted to 155mph.
> 
> ...


JIT production doesn't quite work like that. And the cars are hand made in a different (Quattro Gmbh) factory to mainstream A6 models.

Audi RS cars have traditionally been Avants - the RS6 being first to go saloon. The RS6 Avant has been vastly more popular than the Saloon outselling it more than 2:1, so the Plus model is the logical swansong and apparently addresses some of the journalists and driver critcisms of the 'stock' model.

As well as the extra bits and engine fettling, the Plus model also buys you 50,000 km of N'Ring shake down testing from Quattro Gmbh to hone all the bits interoperability and reset/recalibrate all the settings (mechnical and electrical) and plan likely warranty claim costs.

I havn't driven one yet, the normal version drives great, but all the reviews say that it is a significant improvement over stock, which can only be good news for he fortunate few who will be taking delivery.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> Kell said:
> 
> 
> > Paul does make a lot of good points, but the simple fact of the matter is that there are always going to be people (myself included) that wouldn't dream of modifying a brand new car. I suppose you could argue that if they can afford to buy one new, then they can afford to fix it if it goes wrong, but that's not the point.
> ...


That being the case, i'd better arrange a test drive when they start to arrive.

I'm still very sceptical that the suspension changes will make the car less driveable under normal road conditions. I can appreciate that the RS6+ may well be a little more capable on the track at high speeds, but the ride in a stock RS6 is certainly very firm & any increase in that would make any cruise uncomfortable.

My opinion is still that the RS6+ is more Audi marketing & just extending the life of the production line slightly rather than producing a greatly superior car, as under no circumstance do the enhancements warrant the price. Even the S-Line TT did give fairly good value when you price up the extras (Special paint, wheels & suspension) taking away the fact that those extras became standard on all 225 TT's a couple of months later . There is no way that the RS6+ has over Â£9000 of enhancements when you take into acount the relevant points.

A Re-map which only increases the top speed & does not increase performance or Torque, slightly stiffer springs (the suspension is full of electronic gismos to keep the car stable & they have not changed this at all), slammed the car by 10mm, powder coated the wheels, removed the chrome & changed the rear section of the zorst, put drilled discs back on the car which were a Â£700 option on the stock RS6, plus added a badge with the cars production model number. I can't see Â£9000 in that package, but until i drive one i can't comment fully, only give my opinion.

My feeling is that to the regular man in the street, all these mechanical differences will go pretty much un-noticed & the cosmetic ones are only slight anyway. I'm sure that for regular day to day driving i will still far prefer my set-up which has not altered the handling of the car as i find this already excellent & Bruntingthopre proved this, but have gone for performance upgrade which is mind blowing at the very least.

Back to my old chestnut "horses for courses" 8)


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

I wasn't even going to try and compete, Paul...

But then again... 

http://store.yahoo.com/sgpracing-store/ab03ni35.html

600bhp (measured at the wheels, so god knows what it is at the flywheel)

Should show the RS6+ a thing or 2


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > Kell said:
> ...


Agreed Paul - and I can't comment on the drive as I am only recyling what I have read, and the power of PR does need taking into account when reading 'impartial' reviews. I do however think that the depth of Audi's Gmbh arm in tuning a package as a whole, is worth more than the individual efforts of MTM. H&R, etc. That old synergy thang.

I am sure I read that the Tip gearbox control SW, ABS, ESP etc and all systems have been recalibrated on the Plus.

At the Â£7.8K (according to AE) premium point for: new ecu, cooling system; brakes; exhaust system; variable rate damping; electronic systems tweaks, and a shake down at the Ring buy the Experts, plus the cosmetic changes, it all doesn't actually sound too overpriced to me.

That some are saying this is the car Audi should have released in the first place and that it is a cynical marketing exercise, is another discussion.

I'd have one in a flash.

Big Audi residuals have never been good (as I am sure you know from your S8) I did well with the RS4 only losing Â£2K over 12K miles. But no one buys a Â£50K + Audi or BMW, and really cares about depreciation.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

[off topic]

so are you "drivers" gonna come to the 'ring Sept 17-19th?

See events forum.

[/off topic]

50,000km of ring testing won't have been cheap and making the changes for the "limited" run of RS6+ cars will be quite expensive.

I agree that there's a large amount of marketing behind it but I don't think the increase is so bad. We all know the cost increase Vs return deminishes as you push towards the limits.

The other thing is if they had priced it any closer to a normal RS6 then current oweners would feel even more aggrieved.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> I wasn't even going to try and compete, Paul...
> 
> But then again...
> 
> ...


Thats cheating 8) 

Fairly sure that would woop my 6 good & proper


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > garyc said:
> ...


Would be interested to know if they have tweaked the aux systems on the RS6+ as i was not aware they have modified these & i'm pretty sure the electronic variable rate damping has not changed, just the springs. Tiptronic software upgrade was included in my re-map so i guess Audi would have to do this when increasing the overall power.

On paper & stated as you have, it does not look like bad value, i just wonder that in real driving situations, the differences are not actually noticable with the exception of the visual changes, although as you say, the press have jumped on the RS6+, quoting it as improved.

I still think the value prop is flawed, as for just under Â£3K i've got vastly better on road & track performance (with a better zorst note) with my car & for an additional Â£2K i could uprate the braking to far exceed that thats offered on the RS6+. You have got me thinking though, that i defo need to drive one just to put my mind at rest & see if the other stated improvements are all that


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> [off topic]
> 
> so are you "drivers" gonna come to the 'ring Sept 17-19th?
> 
> ...


No can do ScoTTy, house move & iminant sprog will exclude me from such pleasures for the remainder of this year, although i'm defo up for a trip next year 8)


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > I wasn't even going to try and compete, Paul...
> ...


A couple of cheques landed on my doormat this morning (one of which was large and expected, and should be paying my bills - but the other was about Â£1500 and unexpected... *grin*)

Maybe I should start down the road of building a whoop-ass RS6 killer. Â£1500 won't get THAT far, but its a start


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