# Why no access to "Marketplace" for new users?



## sleeping fox (Sep 25, 2013)

As a relative newbie here i do visit daily & enjoy the layout & topics 
However I,m still active on many other motoring forum,s & struggling to understand the concept of restricting access to the marketplace for new users with limited post count ? 
I can well see the reasoning to stop newbies advertising but why would you prevent folks from viewing item,s for sale ? 
Seem,s totally counter productive to me & of no benefit to anyone :?


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, This was put to a vote for TTF members & the majority voted for it to be this way.
New members can't PM, so no point in seeing the For Sale posts.
Hoggy.


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## bazza white (Jan 7, 2014)

I can see the point for parts but cars for sale is a different matter. I'd prefer to buy a car from an owner on here where I can see history rather than an unknown on eBay or the like.


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## sleeping fox (Sep 25, 2013)

Question was prompted after meeting a newbie by chance on Saturday & the topic came up during the conversation.
It was he who pointed out the nonsense of it & after giving it some thought i decided to ask the question .
Thanks for reply mr H  
No nearer understanding the logic but at least there is an answer


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## spike (Dec 26, 2013)

I think maybe to do with new members putting things up for sale, then ripping off members


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi sleeping fox, I must agree with you up to a point, but I don't make the rules.
Making it avail for new members to be only able to "PM Cars For Sale" posts & nothing else, is probably the difficult part, but I would think it must possible.
Hoggy.


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## bazza white (Jan 7, 2014)

203 posts and still not allowed to view Christ its going to take me months :lol:


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

bazza white said:


> 203 posts and still not allowed to view Christ its going to take me months :lol:


Hi Bazza, Sleeping Fox had full access months ago.
Keep posting sensible/constructive posts you will soon be there.  
Hoggy.


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## PJH (Jan 28, 2014)

Hi, another newbie on here. I also can't see any logic at all restricting anyone from viewing or buying but totally agree that unknowns shouldn't be able to sign up and sell anything. I'm disappointed because I wanted to see if someone had a decent car for sale and I like being able to delve into a member's previous posts to get an idea of what has gone wrong with a car and what has been repaired etc.

Pete


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi Pete, Welcome to the TTF.

To gain access to the market place, you can simply post and join in with forum activity and after a short while you will have shown yourself to be a likely genuine contributer and been granted full access. *This is free. *
Alternatively, if you choose to join the TT Owners' Club which includes a fee; because your personal and banking details are held on file, you are deemed less of a fraud risk, so the TT forum, wishing to get safe contributers into the market place as quickly as possible, will grant you access. So, either post away or join the TTOC - see their website shop
http://www.ttoc.co.uk/shop/index.php?ma ... 52354f1ad3

Hoggy.


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## uv101 (Aug 17, 2013)

PJH said:


> Hi, another newbie on here. I also can't see any logic at all restricting anyone from viewing or buying but totally agree that unknowns shouldn't be able to sign up and sell anything. I'm disappointed because I wanted to see if someone had a decent car for sale and I like being able to delve into a member's previous posts to get an idea of what has gone wrong with a car and what has been repaired etc.
> 
> Pete


Join in some banter and you'll soon get access.

If you are looking for a car start a thread.......what should I look for????

People will point you in the direction of useful info and just ask questions.....Simples 8)


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## CR51GYR-TT240 (Mar 30, 2013)

25 post count then it's yours, well mine was anyways, I for one hated this rule, its stupid I think. Just to view it and pm is what's needed.


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## spike (Dec 26, 2013)

I would agree that new people should be able buy, and PM.

Trusted members selling as per now


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## PJH (Jan 28, 2014)

Thanks for your replies, on the plus side, there is a real sense of mystery to the marketplace section!


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I strongly believe we should not give access to the Scots, Welsh or Irish..... they just can't be trusted.


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## MrOloko (Jan 28, 2014)

This topic was certainly helpful. Was wondering why I could see cars for sale. I even tried to PM mods to find out why and couldn't which was a little frustrating.

Like other users on here I would rather some more in depth info on a car I'm going to buy and believe a forum for enthusiasts would be the best place to buy than the likes of eBay.

Maybe I haven't looked hard enough but is their a sticky topic providing newbies like myself with the rules ie xx number of posts before being able to PM and see the market place?

Thanks.


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## Sherbet77 (Jan 26, 2014)

I can see the logic, but I agree to be able to see what's for sale, I'd rather buy from someone in a forum who had taken care of their car, I've always joined forums for the car I've had, makes sense lots of good advice in fixing things, getting parts etc. especially if your new to this car, both my previous cars fto gpx and vx220 I've found the forum invaluable for info. I'll just stick at joining in until I can see cars for sale.


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## escovedo616 (Oct 9, 2010)

Just join the TTOC and for a miserly amount
you have full access!


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Please read the forum market place rules (pink writing at the top of the market place section here: viewforum.php?f=40) as it explains why restrictions apply.

We had a lot of fraud a while ago. This was because of instant access to the PM system which is global once you have it and can't be restricted to certain forum areas or only members selling cars etc. and we can't monitor it to protect members as we can with public posts. It's either switched on for a member to PM everyone or its switched off.

Having it instantly available to new members allowed fraudsters to join and PM anyone they thought they could take advantage of - perhaps someone they spotted with a failed starter motor or needing a new bumper or a cheap wheel etc. They'd take advantage of members' trust, entice them with an apparently good deal or a difficult to get hold of item and rip them off; take the money and the items never turned up. Then we'd get told about it too late.

We could ban them once they were reported but they could instantly join and start again under a new identity. They had us running in rings trying to spot them and recover members' money with limited resources and complaints and demands from established members to do something escalated. So we introduced a short delay to granting PM access and our members voted for its implementation in a democratic poll. It's been a resounding success - casual scammers are no longer able to operate with impunity as they find easier pickings elsewhere and don't bother us any more.

It's not a perfect system as a determined fraudster can still operate once they gain PM access but there are less of them.

The reason why the markets are not even visible is that unfortunately, visibility encouraged new members to find a selling member and interrupt them on an unrelated thread by posting offers to buy etc which caused complaints and too much work for the moderators.

It's just a shame that fraudsters have caused this inconvenience to new genuine members - but if as a genuine member you join in, you will not have to wait long. Exactly how long or how many posts etc. isn't fixed or disclosed as a simple target would encourage fraudsters to plan around it. That's why it's kept vague. Don't worry about it though - join in and you'll be there before you know it.


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## spike (Dec 26, 2013)

John-H said:


> Please read the forum market place rules (pink writing at the top of the market place section here: viewforum.php?f=40) as it explains why restrictions apply.


In case they cant access that bit

_*Forum rules*
Due to the increasing level of fraud attempts, the forum has a security policy in place to protect the established forum community. New members and members with a low post count, must first post for a short while and make themselves known on the forum before they can gain access to the market place and use the global private message (PM) facility which is needed to buy or sell.

This delay is necessary to dissuade casual fraudsters who, even if discovered and banned, could otherwise instantly join under a new username and undetected; resume playing confidence tricks via the PM system, often selling non existant items to anyone they spot with a need for an item or service anywhere on the forum. Although this is not foolproof, having to post for a while and engage in forum discussions does provide some indication that a member is genuine. This is not a simple post count which would be easy to plan to circumvent. Posts are monitored and anyone found spamming the forum to gain access will have their posts removed and risk a permanent ban if they continue.

Posting and getting yourself known is FREE and does not take long. Alternatively, registering and verifying your personal and bank details via TTOC membership provides the forum with some alternative security because these traceable details can be obtained by Police/Solicitors in case of fraud. TTOC members are therefore provided marketplace and PM access because they are deemed a lower risk to the forum community.

The market place is also hidden from view even for browsing because prior to this, new registrants having seen an item, were posting on threads where the seller/buyer was posting on another topic and interrupt with invitations to buy or sell because they could not use the PM facility. This caused complaints and too much work for the moderators to clean up and police.

Although selling a car is inherantly a low risk to established members due to the legal regulations governing car sales, it is not possible to open up this section to new members because to engage in this process, new members would have to be able to use the global PM system and this would circumvent the security mentioned above as they could be a fraudster and they could PM anyone anywhere on the forum at will. The reason why the cars for sale section is PM only is that in the past, when members could freely post in reply, threads rapidly deteriorated into an auction with spoiling tactics being employed, which led to many complaints and too much work for the moderators to police.

We hope the above explains our policy. This is primarily a forum community which is free to join and not a marketplace like eBay or Autotrader. The rules are in place to protect established members who voted for them. Please respect the rules and their wishes.

Remember, no security is perfect. Avoid the use of PayPal "gift" or direct bank transfer unless you know and trust a seller and use common sense._


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## Richew (Oct 15, 2013)

Hi I have joined the TTOC, but I still have no access to the market place sections, can anyone help?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## spike (Dec 26, 2013)

did you follow instruction, added banner, and put a post on "the" thread?


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Richew said:


> Hi I have joined the TTOC, but I still have no access to the market place sections, can anyone help?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Hi Rich, Read the reply to your other post. Might give you a clue. :? 
Hoggy.


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## Richew (Oct 15, 2013)

Hi Hoggy,

Thanks I have managed to do it now.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi Rich, You still need to complete this part, before access can be given.

Once banner displayed, click link & post. It's a manual operation, but as soon as I see your posts I will give you access.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=257444

Hoggy.


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## de coco (Dec 27, 2013)

I must be the only newish member who completely agrees with how the market place is at the minute. Too many car forums which used to be "genuine" have been destroyed by people signing up JUST to get into a market place making unrealistic offers to genuine sellers then acting up because they don't get what they want, posting on unrelated topics and generally being a nuisance. On top of that the countless people on forums getting scammed at the same time.

Since logging onto this forum it seems to have that more mature chilled out everyone's friendly vibe, and I hope it stays like that, I'd hate it to get like clublupo(sorry to the nice members on there) or dubnortheast, and I think having a limited market place helps with that.

I'd prefer to have access to less items from genuine trusted sellers than any amounts of shite from 1 post pikeys & lets be honest £15 to sign up and gain full access ain't exactly a bank breaker, you'll probably make that back from buying a genuine good condition item from someone trusted than having to fork out for a "prestine" described completely ruined item from a cowboy.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi de coco, Excellent opinion. 8) 
Hoggy.


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## spike (Dec 26, 2013)

de coco said:


> I must be the only newish member who completely agrees with how the market place is at the minute. .


Great opinion of the ruling!


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## cardstreamleon (Mar 3, 2014)

Good point de coco. I agree with the format as it is now even though I am a new member looking to buy a car. I guess I will just have to read and contribute to more posts before I can see what cars are available  Does anyone know for sure it is 25 posts before access is allowed to the marketplace?


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## nedge2k (May 4, 2014)

John-H said:


> We had a lot of fraud a while ago. This was because of instant access to the PM system which is global once you have it and can't be restricted to certain forum areas or only members selling cars etc. and we can't monitor it to protect members as we can with public posts. It's either switched on for a member to PM everyone or its switched off.
> 
> Having it instantly available to new members allowed fraudsters to join and PM anyone they thought they could take advantage of - perhaps someone they spotted with a failed starter motor or needing a new bumper or a cheap wheel etc. They'd take advantage of members' trust, entice them with an apparently good deal or a difficult to get hold of item and rip them off; take the money and the items never turned up. Then we'd get told about it too late.
> 
> ...


That doesn't explain why new members cannot just have perms set to view and reply-to for sale ads (but not create or pm)? I know that is possible...


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## Lollypop86 (Oct 26, 2013)

because the rules are rules!!!! If that were the case then you would have loads of people joining and leaving posts on the threads muggin you off its quite simple really.....restrict access till they are a forum member and not just someone who likes to make money......thats IMO ofc

J
xx


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

nedge2k said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> > We had a lot of fraud a while ago. This was because of instant access to the PM system which is global once you have it and can't be restricted to certain forum areas or only members selling cars etc. and we can't monitor it to protect members as we can with public posts. It's either switched on for a member to PM everyone or its switched off.
> ...


That's an even earlier reason. We used to have the for sale boards open to posts but we found it rapidly turned into an auction and people posted spoilers to try and get the price down. The mods were constantly asked to remove posts and intervene when rows broke out. That's why it's single original post only to advertise with offers via PM. It's more peaceful and civilised that way :wink:


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