# Birmingham Clear Air Zone (Euro 4?)



## Neil (May 7, 2002)

The Birmingham Clear Air Zone says my TT 225 (2002) is not Euro 4 compliant, so charges apply.

The London ULEZ, which is apparently the same rules, says my car IS Euro 4 compliant, so charges don't apply.

How do I know definitively which is correct? Bham site says to contact the manufacturer if any doubt, but can't imagine Audi being much help with an 18 year-old car :?


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## Amulet banana (Nov 12, 2018)

Iirc anything after 2006 should comply, but you can check on some of the government websites.


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## Amulet banana (Nov 12, 2018)

https://www.gov.uk/co2-and-vehicle-tax-tools


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## HOGG (Mar 30, 2018)

Euro 3 mate










Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Neil (May 7, 2002)

Thanks both. But, oh FFS... :x

For ages, the Bham site didn't have its own calculator, so it just said to refer to the London ULEZ one (it even gave a link) as it's the same rules. That has always said I am exempt (hence I have driven into London with it and always been OK).

But now with a few months to go it seems I am _not_ exempt after all [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## HOGG (Mar 30, 2018)

Time to buy a Prius

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Neil (May 7, 2002)

HOGG said:


> Time to buy a Prius


I think not 

Just re-checked on the London ULEZ site (same rules etc), and it's OK there :? ...

*No ULEZ charge due for this vehicle
This vehicle meets the emission standards for ULEZ so you don't have to pay this charge when driving within the zone*


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

I just checked mine...

I'm ok in London and Leeds but not in Birmingham. £8/day.


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## Kryton (Apr 20, 2019)

Just checked my 05 v6 & it's says it's ok. Don't know if I'm on the right site for Birmingham though


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## desertstorm (Apr 25, 2017)

The MK1 TT is euro 3. I have only taken an interest in this recently as one of my colleagues has an S3 and we may be working in the middle of Birmingham from next year. His car and mine OK in London, but not in Birmingham. My 2008 A4 3.0 TDI no good in either London or Birmingham. Looks like I may be getting a new car or end up driving the wifes 1.2 TSI Polo. 
If I go that road it will deffo be getting a remap to 130bhp, It's so slow with only 90 bhp.


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## Kryton (Apr 20, 2019)

V6 is euro 4 according to Parker's which might explain why mines come back as ok. Definitely worth the £2k bill for a timing chain to save £8 per year for my one trip to birmingham lol


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## Neil (May 7, 2002)

Kryton said:


> V6 is euro 4 according to Parker's


Can't see this on Parkers, where is it?

Maybe London ULEZ has always been wrong then, if the 225 TT is Euro 3. Certainly shouldn't have different results Bham to London as they both supposedly have the same rules.


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## Neil (May 7, 2002)

Found Parkers now


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

Seems to be a known issue...
BBC News article Birmingham clean air zone vehicle check service 'inaccurate'

Same for my 2002 225 TT Coupé
* London ULEZ: No charge
* Leeds: No Charge
* Birmingham: £8
This is standard government IT for you. No joined up thinking...



> The RAC says it may show vehicles as not complying in Birmingham, when the same ones would in London, despite the cities having the same requirements.


Edit:


Neil said:


> Maybe London ULEZ has always been wrong then, if the 225 TT is Euro 3. Certainly shouldn't have different results Bham to London as they both supposedly have the same rules.


From last time this was discussed it seems on the London ULEZ checker some 225s are compliant, some are not. It doesn't look like we got to the bottom of why though. :?


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## Neil (May 7, 2002)

Thanks pcbbc. Yeah, seems a mess, but not a great surprise!

I need to go to London or Leeds then, and not Birmingham :roll:

Just for a laugh, I might email the Bham contact team, and ask them to clarify why under the same rules Bham and London conclude different things about the same car. And then watch the tumbleweed... [smiley=zzz.gif]


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## silkman (Jul 29, 2004)

1.8 TT is euro 3. 3.2 is euro4


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## longodds (May 8, 2014)

It's all too complicated for me. If it has fuel, my car goes where I please to take it :lol:.


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## Neil (May 7, 2002)

I'm like a dog with a bone on this! :lol:

Birmingham seem to suggest that if your car is from before Euro 4 was introduced (so can't be Euro 4), but meets the standards of Euro 4 anyway, then this counts as being compliant.

So I started to look into it a bit more.

I have to admit I have no idea what these things really mean (!!), but the Euro 4 standards are below.

Euro 4 emission limits (petrol)
CO - 1.0 g/km
HC - 0.10 g/km
NOx - 0.08
PM - no limit

CO = Carbon Monoxide
NOx = Oxides of Nitrogen
HC = Hydrocarbons
PM = Particulate matter

And Euro 3 for reference is:

Euro 3 emission limits (petrol)
CO - 2.3 g/km
HC - 0.20 g/km
NOx - 0.15
PM - no limit

source: https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/fu ... -standards

It appears the TT (2002 1.8T 225) is:
CO 1.331
HC 0.115
NOx 0.076
source: https://carfueldata.vehicle-certificati ... vid=850768

So it does look like the TT doesn't meet the Euro 4 regs for CO or HC, so seems odd that ULEZ says the TT is OK (I had assumed that maybe even though the TT wasn't badged as Euro 4 (which I assume it can't be, as Euro 4 didn't exist in 2002) it still hit the emissions standards).

Confused :?

Anyone know how the ULEZ works, which means it would categorise the TT as OK?

(looks like I am screwed on Bham though :x ).


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

I shouldn't get too hung up on this by the time we are allowed to be driving for no particular reason, we'll be allowed to drive rolling-coal...

Last night on the radio the stats expert was discussing 6000 more people died 2 weeks ago than normal, and more people than any other death recorded in their 15 years of data collection.

They were trying to work out who they are as hardly anyone is dying on the road or due to air quality but more are being killed by parents / partners, and suicide gone up, and people deciding themselves if the head injury in the child really needs hospital , strokes etc

So my point is, we are not that concerned about getting electric cars now... No need..

Also was the stock-piling body bags in November accused as for no-deal Brexit, really for Brexit?


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## keithriley (Jun 20, 2017)

Simple answer boycott Birmingham, I've managed to avoid it for most of my 54 years, and long may it continue.
Should be called the Birmingham Cash Cow Zone, which reminds me of Commie Ken bringing in the Congestion Charge in Londinium some years back (2005 ish ??). Thats worked hasn't it, there's never congestion there now, streets are empty and you can get from one side to the other in minutes, NOT ! I worked there for a few years back in 2016, horrendous, any time of day, I was glad to see the back of it and go home to North Wales. 
Rant over .............................


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## Neil (May 7, 2002)

keithriley said:


> Simple answer boycott Birmingham


yeah, that's the easy answer, but I work there so not an option... :?


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## PlasticMac (Apr 25, 2017)

My 2005 FWD 190 is ULEZ compliant, for London. ULEZ limits are (I believe) the same for Leeds and Birmingham. There has been "technical problems" and the Birmingham check page is currently down, back next Tuesday. So, check again then.
Mac.


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## silkman (Jul 29, 2004)

TBH I just watched an episode of Harrys garage the other day and being outside the UK, I was surprised to how easy the UK laws are for classic cars. No road tax, no london tax etc, drive it anywhere and cheap insurance. Classic car plates pretty much anywhere else means the car stays inside and becomes a garage queen.

Go get an e-type or something, it would certainly be more eye catching than any new car or the TT :roll:


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## PlasticMac (Apr 25, 2017)

PlasticMac said:


> My 2005 FWD 190 is ULEZ compliant, for London. ULEZ limits are (I believe) the same for Leeds and Birmingham. There has been "technical problems" and the Birmingham check page is currently down, back next Tuesday. So, check again then.
> Mac.


Looking at Audi 2005 spec, the FWDs are Euro 4, as are the 3.2s. All 1.8 Quattros are Euro 3.
Mac.


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## Neil (May 7, 2002)

PlasticMac said:


> There has been "technical problems" and the Birmingham check page is currently down, back next Tuesday. So, check again then.


Back up now, and my TT still non-compliant


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## PlasticMac (Apr 25, 2017)

You could trade the Quattro in for a FWD ...
Mac.


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## Neil (May 7, 2002)

Neil said:


> Anyone know how the ULEZ works, which means it would categorise the TT as OK?


Answered my own question - always a pretty sad thing to do on a forum :roll:

So...

London ULEZ is Euro 4 _*or*_ (importantly) NOx of less than (or equal to) 0.08 g/km. So the TT 225 is below the NOx limits, despite being Euro 3, so is OK (no charge) in London.

The Birmingham Clear Air Zone rule is just Euro 4 - and of course the TT 225 is Euro 3.

So that's why, despite on the surface having the same rules ("Euro 4"), the TT 225 is OK in London (ULEZ), but not in Birmingham.

:x


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## PlasticMac (Apr 25, 2017)

Not that I'm likely to go there in the near future, but is Leeds aligned with Birmingham or (sensible imo) London?
Mac.


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## Neil (May 7, 2002)

Apparently private cars are exempt in Leeds.


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## auspicious_character (Sep 4, 2016)

PlasticMac said:


> You could trade the Quattro in for a FWD ...
> Mac.


He could get a 2005 fwd running a TDI and then secretly start a war on the Brummies.


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## keithriley (Jun 20, 2017)

I believe this finally came 'live' yesterday, but there is a grace period as drivers become accustomed to the new regulations. Good luck, the people of Birmingham.


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## jester225 (Jan 14, 2020)

Neil said:


> Apparently private cars are exempt in Leeds.


and so they should be :lol: :lol:


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## Stustt (Jul 3, 2020)

Neil said:


> The Birmingham Clear Air Zone says my TT 225 (2002) is not Euro 4 compliant, so charges apply.
> 
> The London ULEZ, which is apparently the same rules, says my car IS Euro 4 compliant, so charges don't apply.
> 
> How do I know definitively which is correct? Bham site says to contact the manufacturer if any doubt, but can't imagine Audi being much help with an 18 year-old car :?


My 2000 225 apx engine is non compliant in London. If yours has a Bam engine it might be.
Just go on the gov. site, type in your reg number to check.


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## PlasticMac (Apr 25, 2017)

Stustt said:


> Neil said:
> 
> 
> > The Birmingham Clear Air Zone says my TT 225 (2002) is not Euro 4 compliant, so charges apply.
> ...


Audi will send you the CoC and letter stating your car's Euro status. It's free, I posted the email address earlier in the thread. 
Mac.


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## Stustt (Jul 3, 2020)

PlasticMac said:


> Stustt said:
> 
> 
> > Neil said:
> ...


Birmingham and other places can set their own rules and regulations, nothing to do with London. Check your own cities rules.
It is what it is, another nail in the coffin of poorer car drivers.


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## desertstorm (Apr 25, 2017)

If you drive in the clean air zone in Birmingham don't be surprised if you receive a letter stating that you have been spotted even though you won't have to pay till 14th June. Several of my work colleagues have received a letter in the last few weeks when they have driven through the area. Seems they are getting the system upto speed and letting people know the cameras are working. Probably quite a few people having letters who have never been to Birmingham as there are a good few cars driving around with false plates in the town. I know from first hand experience.


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## Spacemonkey (Mar 5, 2021)

Beware what's happening in Oxford as it's the tip of an iceberg no doubt- they are having a -so far very small- zone in the centre which is zero emmisions only. Starts in August iirc and ANYTHING with an engine is banned. :roll:


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## MonsTTer (Dec 2, 2003)

Stustt said:


> My 2000 225 apx engine is non compliant in London. If yours has a Bam engine it might be.
> Just go on the gov. site, type in your reg number to check.


My 2000 180 (AJQ, 220 HP and 340 Nm since 2003) is EURO 2, go figure...we have the last engines without the EGR system, that's why.
Starting from next year it won't be allowed in Milan (twinned with Birmingham since ages, BTW) whatsoever. Not even a penalty fee is available.
As I always preferred public transportation in the center, I'll keep on enjoying my TT on open roads, and drive to the nearest Underground station when needed...showing it off only on Saturdays and Sundays, and of course at nightime!


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## MonsTTer (Dec 2, 2003)

...forgot to mention that, according to the last MOT, I still have the same emissions of a new FIAT Panda....but nobody would take this into consideration!


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## PlasticMac (Apr 25, 2017)

Email Audi, and request a Certificate of Conformance. They will need your VIN. You'll get pdf copies of the CoC, and a declaration of Euro status, as it's not on the CoC, because it was not mandatory before 2006. The CoC includes precise emission levels. 
I believe the FWDs and V6s are Euro 4.
These docs can be used to challenge charges, if you think they are wrong. 
You can send paper copies of the CoC and letter, to DVLA, with your V5, and get an updated V5, with Euro status included.
Audi will send paper copies by post, in 7 to 10 days.
Email : [email protected]
Mac.


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## Stustt (Jul 3, 2020)

In the future I might be forced into buying a classic car. The irony is my 99 Quattro isn't allowed in the new zone but my 1973 5.7 litre Buick is.
Not road tax or Mot and cheap insurance might swing it.
Loads of half decent Range Rovers etc now being advertised for silly cheap money as owners are panicking getting ready for October.


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## uk.claudiu (3 mo ago)

Neil said:


> The Birmingham Clear Air Zone says my TT 225 (2002) is not Euro 4 compliant, so charges apply. The London ULEZ, which is apparently the same rules, says my car IS Euro 4 compliant, so charges don't apply. How do I know definitively which is correct? Bham site says to contact the manufacturer if any doubt, but can't imagine Audi being much help with an 18 year-old car :?


 My 02 tt is charge free in Birmingham and its same tt 225


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## uk.claudiu (3 mo ago)

uk.claudiu said:


> My 02 tt is charge free in Birmingham and its same tt 225


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## Jay225 (Sep 21, 2021)

Stustt said:


> In the future I might be forced into buying a classic car. The irony is my 99 Quattro isn't allowed in the new zone but my 1973 5.7 litre Buick is.
> Not road tax or Mot and cheap insurance might swing it.
> Loads of half decent Range Rovers etc now being advertised for silly cheap money as owners are panicking getting ready for October.


Historic vehicle status for your Buick Stustt,,,,,
40+ ok for ulez and no tax or mot needed iirc,,,


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## Stustt (Jul 3, 2020)

Yes indeed, my point being a v8 land-rover is exempt , but my weedy 1.8 is destroying planet earth !


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## Jay225 (Sep 21, 2021)

Stustt said:


> Yes indeed, my point being a v8 land-rover is exempt , but my weedy 1.8 is destroying planet earth !


it’s a stealth tax ,,
my 5’5 V8 qualified,,,,,10-11 mpg when having fun ,,,,
makes no sense to me,,,,,


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