# Wheel alignment settings for a Mk1 TT



## John-H

*Wheel alignment settings for Mk1 TT (quattro + FWD)*










*These are the correct settings for a 225 + V6 TT quattro + FWD including sport suspension:

Front Toe at each wheel ................. +4' +/-3.5' (i.e. slight toe in to nearly parall) 
Front camber................................... -45'+/-30' (i.e. -15' to -1° 15') [-58' +/-30' sport]
Max camber diff left to right............ 30'
Toe out on turns at 20° steering..... 1° 31' +/-20'
Castor angle (not adjustable) ........ +7° 58' [+8° 15' sport]
Max castor diff left to right ............. 30'

Rear camber .................................... (see table for quattro) {-2° +/-20' FWD} 
Max camber diff left to right ............ 20'
Rear toe .......................................... +7.5' +7.5'/-5' (i.e. +2.5' to +15') {+14' [+19.5' sport] +/-5' FWD}*










The above table of camber and height really only serves to check your suspension is not worn or bent. Setting a height will give a certain camber and there is little scope for adjustment without fitting adjustable tie bars. The factory manual suggests slight adjustment is possible by loosening the tie bar bolts and using the small amount of play but adjustment is minimal and requires replacement stretch bolts and straps to heave the wheel into position. Adjustable tie bars make the job of adjustment much easier.

Having more negative camber on the rear suspension will tend to give you more grip on cornering but will tend to increase tyre wear slightly. A good set up may only mean that your rear tyre inside edges become bald when the rest of the tyre needs replacing anyway so may not be an issue. -2° 10' or so is not usually a problem. Over 3° may be. Reducing the rear camber angle with adjustable tie bars can remove the inside edge wear characteristic of negative camber but will reduce rear grip on cornering with possible unexpected over steer if pushed on cornering with a "fork lift truck" tendency.

Toe being set incorrectly wears tyres fastest. The front has a huge adjustment range and if set incorrectly will show up with worn inside or outside edges which can wear to the canvas within a few hundred miles when the rest of the tyre has plenty of tread so can ruin a pair of good tyres very quickly.

For the rear, incorrect toe can be a little deceptive. There is only a small adjustment range so wear can not be as rapid as the front. Too much toe-in will cause outer edge wear usually but with a large amount of negative camber on the rear the tyres will tend to scrub across the whole surface giving the appearance of correct wear pattern but accelerated wear - perhaps halving a tyres life. The toe error and camber tend to offset each other's tell tale characteristic. The sideways scrub causes the tread blocks to become feathered however - you can feel sharp edges with the palm of your hand flat on the tread in one direction (facing in) as a check. Correctly set up there should be no scrub due to excessive toe in - the tread blocks will feel to have blunt edges (not sharp in one direction) but the inside edge will naturally wear quickest because of camber - however this should only be noticeable at the end of the tyre's life.

Uneven toe at the rear causes a non zero "thrust angle" and will cause the car to rear wheel steer to one side making the driver steer slightly in the opposite direction to compensate and maintain a straight ahead direction. This causes the car to "crab" slightly and can cause inside front edge tyre wear due to the off centre steering rack position and the inbuilt cornering geometry where the inside wheel follows a tighter cornering radius - effectively giving toe out (negative toe). The steering wheel will need turning to one side all the time which is the obvious symptom of rear toe being uneven giving a thrust to one side.

*Setting front camber:*










Set front camber first as this also radically affects front toe. The three nuts (shown above) under the ball joint should be loosened allowing the studs free to move in the slots of the Track Control Arm. Straps to pull the wheel, or a special tool that pulls on one of the studs is required to stop the camber sliding to maximum setting. Nuts should be set to *75 Nm *(clean serrations or use new nuts). If equal camber can not be set it's sometimes possible to shift the sub frame over in order to balance. Twisting the sub frame can also balance caster which is otherwise not adjustable.

*Setting front toe:*

Front toe should be set after camber. Both left and right toe must be adjusted and set correctly with the steering wheel in the straight ahead position. Failure to keep the steering wheel straight can upset the zero setting of the ESP angle sensor. Under no circumstances should the steering wheel be removed to correct a left right toe imbalance - toe must be set correctly for each side.










To do this counterhold the ball joint (A) and loosen the locknut (B). Turning the tie rod (C) will alter toe. Make sure the rack gaiter is not twisted. If the adjustment is seized with corrosion, heating up the locknut with a butane blow torch will unseize it if WD40 fails. A wet rag can be used to protect vulnerable items. Re-check setting after tightening locknut to *50 Nm*.

*Setting rear camber and toe*

Rear camber is not normally easily adjustable unless adjustable tie bars are fitted but rear toe can be adjusted relatively easily. If camber can be adjusted it should be adjusted before toe is attempted. To adjust rear toe loosen the four bolts on the trailing arm front bush mounting and tap the mounting plate either way with a mallet. Tighhten bolts to *75 Nm *(clean serrations or replace). Toe should be set equally to maintain straight driving of the vehicke with no left right bias (zero thrust angle).










Rear camber depends on suspension height but camber is probably best set to between -1.5° (less wear but less grip) and -2.5° (good grip slight inner edge wear) but around -3° or over may give excess tyre wear on the inner edge but probably better track performance.

When lowering causes excess camber, it's often not possible to achieve correct toe. Excessive toe in (positive toe) normally causes outer edge tyre wear and excess negative camber (wheels lean in) normally causes inner edge wear but the combination of both these excesses can actually cause even but more rapid rear tyre wear across the whole tyre tread due to feathering. This is often the case when the quattro rear geometry is set to a compromise which includes excess toe in.

Camber and toe are also interrelated on this suspension setup and here's why:










As the rear track is increased (wheel contact point with road moved further apart), then because of the rear trailing arm arrangement there is a tendancy to toe in - the front trailing arm pivot points should ideally be moved further apart to compensate. There are slotted mounting brackets here to allow for a limited toe adjustment. However there is another effect on toe. The tie bar mounting points at the hub are offset to the vertical - the top bar hub bushes are slightly forward and the rear bar bushes slightly to the rear of the hub. As the bottom arm pushes out and the top arm pulls in, when lowering, a twist is imposed on the bub which also increases toe in as well as extra negative camber.










Adjustable tie bars can be fitted into the upper or lower tie bar position and can compensate for the twist at the hub due to the bush offset but in order to achieve less camber, either the top bars will have to lengthen or the bottom bars shorten. Because the bottom bars have already pushed the wheels further apart when lowering, an adjustable top bar fitment will also have to push the wheels further apart to give less camber and this is when you may run out of toe adjustment at the trailing arm front mount slots. They can't go further out than the sills. Fitting the adjustable bars to the lower arm position has the advantage that not only can it correct camber but by pulling the wheels back in towards each other the toe adjustments are then less likely to hit the sills and run out of adjustment.









(Note: -1.5° camber shown for illustrative purposes only)

Of course if you lower even more you may run out of toe adjustment the other way and your adjustable tie bars may not shorten enough even if you do take the lock washers off (the right hand lockwasher is useless with the left hand thread anyway). Another trick is to take the shorter original top bars (515 mm) and fit them in the lower position and then fit your adjustable tie bars in the upper position and make them longer to compensate. This can then centre the toe adjustment slots for you.

It all depends on how much you lower and what camber you want to have but it should be possible to avoid using eccentric or offset bushes either at the end of the tie bars or the front of the trailing arms which is less than ideal.

*From Etka:

1999 225 TT quattro (pre facelift):*
1J0 505 232 L - Rear track control arm upper
1J0 505 232 N - Rear track control arm lower
1J0 505 223 M - Left swing arm
1J0 505 224 M - Right swing arm
1J0 505 235 F - Rear subframe

*2006 225 TT quattro (post facelift):*
1J0 505 232 L - Rear track control arm upper
1J0 505 232 N - Rear track control arm lower
1J0 505 223 M - Left swing arm
1J0 505 224 M - Right swing arm
1J0 505 235 F - Rear subframe

As you can see, both early and later TTs had the same tie bars but in both cases upper and lower are different. I measured my (pre facelift) upper bars at 515 mm between centres and lower 519 mm. There is some play in the holes which allows for some adjustment and I believe later manufactured arms had slightly elongated outer holes to allow even more adjustment.

The difference in camber between pre and post facelift, at the same ride height where the table overlaps, is almost identical with only two minutes difference which could easily be a measurement error and certainly encompassed by the play in the bolt holes.

Height - 352 mm . . . -2° 10' (pre) . . . -2° 08' (post) 
Height - 355 mm . . . -2° 04' (pre) . . . -2° 02' (post) 
Height - 360 mm . . . -1° 54' (pre) . . . -1° 52' (post)

*Track Control Arm failure*

The arms have been known to snap at the hub end causing sudden massive camber and corner lowering. This is due to the original rose bushes going rusty and partially seizing, causing a repeated bending moment to be applied to the end of the arm with inevitable fatigue crack propagation and sudden failure, usually over a bump or pot hole. Just replacing the broken arm is not going to fix the cause - check the bush.

Replacement revised bushes are a double rubber bonded concentric tube design, which don't seize. It's important that these bushes are tightened with the full weight of the car on the wheels, with the normal rest position of the suspension set, so as not to pre twist the bush which will shorten its life. It's also important that replacement is done in top or bottom pairs for left-right symetry of suspension compliance.

When adjusting or replacing bushes or arms use new nuts and bolts, as they are stretch bolts and weaken each time they are torqued and tightened to specification, resulting in less pre-load clamping force.

1J0 505 203 - Bonded rubber bush
N 104 162 01 - M12 x 1.5 x 75 bolt (outer hub end)
N 104 280 01 - M12 x 1.5 x 80 bolt (inner diff end)
N 101 064 02 - M12 shouldered self locking nut

Tightening specification: *70 Nm + 90°* (quarter turn)


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## warrenstuart

Really great post [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Printed off and bookmarked.

Warren.


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## Duggy

Thanks John,

I've been looking for a definitive of this setting info, as I want to have a comprehensive alignment after all by new suspension 

John


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## Brendanb86

As someone who is learning and completely clueless when it comes to lowering, camber, etc. this was a great read [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I lowered my car on springs last year and have run excessive camber for a year and my tyres are knackered already. Having enjoyed it for a year, I've decided it's time to invest in tie bars and coilovers and sort the whole thing out so I'm not running excessive camber anymore. But, I still had no idea how it all works and exactly how tie bars remedy the camber issue. It now makes complete sense, so thanks!


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## John Stratton

Really great post . Thanks for taking the time to share with other members .


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## forker

Excellent; that explains what I wondered. I hadn't twigged that top & bottom lateral links aren't vertically aligned.

F


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## steveupton

Brilliant post, this is the easiest to understand explanation I've seen.


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## jhoneyman

Excellent info.

I have recently done this (New Adjustable s) Fitted to the top actually.
Both original bars were the same length though


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## JorgeTTCQ

Brillant, thank you very much [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## Jay-225

excellent post, learnt a few new bits myself


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## John-H

Thanks guys. I keep on getting asked this information so about time I posted it up. I've added some more information by the way


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## stewbieTT

Great post and some excellent explanation, vindicates fitting my adjustable arms to the lower position.

The only thing I would say is that from experience I found setting the front toe to the maximum setting i.e. parallel or very nearly so gave a much more stable steering feel at speed compared to the nominal setting.


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## John-H

Some extra detail added about rear arms to clear up any confusion and bush replacement following arm failure.


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## spaceplace

are these specs good for a mk1 v6?


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## John-H

I've only got a few pdfs with me at the moment that the numbers were taken from and that was for '2000 - 2005 FWD and quattro' with no mention of the V6 which I presume is therefore covered under 'quattro'. I've always thought it was the same but will check the workshop manual when I get home and update the title to avoid any confusion.

I've noticed some of the pictures have dropped off. Sorry about that - the hosting service I originally used has recently started to charge for their previously fee service and also seem to be deleting images. I won't be using them again. I'll re-host them - I can see a big job ahead :?


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## spaceplace

I would think it comes under Quattro, it's a really good sticky  nice one for taking the time to do it. Makes me want to go and buy all new bushes/rod ends and tie bars and get it perfect, does this allow for the camber on UK roads? I've heard stories that they have different specs depending on which side of the road you drive on, not sure I believe it myself.

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## John-H

The camber of the road is only for drainage and cracking your sump if you are too low :wink:

All the specs are symmetrical left to right and set up on a level platform - there is no inbuilt bias for a presumed road camber - that would be NASCAR or banked race circuit ovals. For normal road cars it's always set neutral. I think some have mistaken a badly set up tracking (in particular thrust angle) as deliberate or been told this by a garage trying to avoid redoing it properly and that's where it's come from. A properly set up car should drive straight on a level surface.


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## M18NTT

John-H said:


> I've only got a few pdfs with me at the moment that the numbers were taken from and that was for '2000 - 2005 FWD and quattro' with no mention of the V6 which I presume is therefore covered under 'quattro'. I've always thought it was the same but will check the workshop manual when I get home and update the title to avoid any confusion.
> 
> I've noticed some of the pictures have dropped off. Sorry about that - the hosting service I originally used has recently started to charge for their previously fee service and also seem to be deleting images. I won't be using them again. I'll re-host them - I can see a big job ahead :?


Excellent, informative thread this. My 3.2 has been lowered and I've been pondering for ages over other threads as a number seem to suggest that rear camber should be in the order of -1,1 to -1.5. I know this depends upon how much the car has been lowered but mine was set to -2.4 which did seem a bit extreme (looking at it from behind). The notes under "Setting Camber and Rear Toe" does seem to suggest that my setting is probably within spec, the handling is fine and I'm not seeing any adverse tyre wear so on the basis that if it ain't broke don't try to fix it I'll leave mine as it is and accept the fact that the camber looks a bit more than I would have expected it would.


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## John-H

I've updated the post to make it clear that the V6 is the same settings as the 225. There are differences with sports suspension and also FWD so I've updated the settings with those differences. I've also re-hosted the pictures onto the forum so they will no longer fall victim to the dubious business practices of an outside hosting company.


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## M18NTT

Looking at the table for rear camber it would appear that (negative) camber increases by 2' for every mm drop in height so with a ride height of 325mm my camber should be -2.62'. That's close enough for me (mine is set to -2.48') as I would certainly prefer not to have any more negative camber than I've already got.


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## John-H

I think mine was about -2.25 degrees or so with about 12 mm lowering. I put new springs on recently and it looks more like -1.5 degrees and too high. I've got adjustable tire bars on the lower arms so I'll lengthen them a bit which will increase the negative camber and lower the rear at the same time due to where the spring sits on the corner of the trailing arm. I did try -1.5 degrees a while ago but it drove like a fork lift round corners and was too tail happy.


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## 3TT3

Even tho its awhile since a post was on here, this is the index reference thread.

ok going soley by the table provided by John-H all praise etc.

My rear suspension height on coilovers , is at present 330 mm each side approx.

The camber (negative) Ive measured using a piece of thread and a 17mm nut on the end and ol pythagoras. 

Ive measured a few times with wheels on different surface etc and it comes out approximately between 2 degrees 50' min and 3 degrees 23' max.(with bolt on a string accuracy)

The larger angle readings on the lhs/ps ,say an average of 3 degrees overall discounting the extremes with the lhs a lil over 3 degrees and the rhs a lil under 3 degrees.

This is quite "cambery" in appearance  and yet going by the table above close enough to what it should be , maybe 3 degress 23' is a lil out.

Wheel alignment toe in etc was done before MOT/NCT.

So sound alrite .. even if it looks a lil squatty?


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## John-H

As long as you don't wear the inside edges out or the whole tyre with scrubbing then it's fine. I got 17k miles I remember, with tyre front back rotation to even things up and when they were expired, the inside rear edges were bald but the rest of the tyre was at the wear bar limit anyway so needed replacing :wink:


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## 3TT3

Ok Ill keep an eye on it, the wear etc [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=mexicanwave.gif]


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## jabjab

Can someone tell me if these specs are correct for my 2000 quattro? I just got an alignment and my tt is very unstable in the winter


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## Antthony

Bit of a thread necro, but this will always be relevant.

Can someone please tell me as I have asked on another thread but nobody replied, if the 'Sports suspension' mentioned on that table is the standard S Line suspension, or something else?

Is the bottom value the standard ride height and therefore standard they are running around 1.5 degrees neg camber?

Cheers.


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## alexisgt

Hi guys!

Could you help me to find out the correct settings for a TT 225 Quattro with a Bilstein PSS10 coilover suspension? 
_(the suspension height is adjusted at 340mm)_

Unfortunately, due to my bad English i guess, i can't understand the values at first post depending the model or type of suspension. 

I would greatly appreciate if someone can reply me the correct settings.


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## Hoggy

alexisgt said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Could you help me to find out the correct settings for a TT 225 Quattro with a Bilstein PSS10 coilover suspension?
> _(the suspension height is adjusted at 340mm)_
> 
> Unfortunately, due to my bad English i guess, i can't understand the values at first post depending the model or type of suspension.
> 
> I would greatly appreciate if someone can reply me the correct settings.


Hi, According to the Bentley chart, camber at 340mm suspension height is -2.32
Hoggy.


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## alexisgt

Hoggy said:


> alexisgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi guys!
> 
> Could you help me to find out the correct settings for a TT 225 Quattro with a Bilstein PSS10 coilover suspension?
> _(the suspension height is adjusted at 340mm)_
> 
> Unfortunately, due to my bad English i guess, i can't understand the values at first post depending the model or type of suspension.
> 
> I would greatly appreciate if someone can reply me the correct settings.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, According to the Bentley chart, camber at 340mm suspension height is -2.32
> Hoggy.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply.
I meant for the whole settings of first post.

For example, what about:

Front camber................................... -45'+/-30' (i.e. -15' to -1° 15') [-58' +/-30' sport]

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## Hoggy

Hi, Suspension height of 340 would be classed as "Sport Suspension" so use the Sport setting.

Front camber................................... [-58' +/-30' sport]
Castor angle (not adjustable) ........ [+8°15' sport]
Rear toe .......................................... ' [+19.5' sport] +/-5' }
Rear Camber -2.32

Other settings in 1st post are suitable for all suspension.
Hoggy.


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## NtG

John-H said:


> *Wheel alignment settings for Mk1 TT (quattro + FWD)*
> 
> View attachment 7
> 
> 
> *These are the correct settings for a 225 + V6 TT quattro + FWD including sport suspension:
> 
> Front Toe at each wheel ................. +4' +/-3.5' (i.e. slight toe in to nearly parall)
> Front camber................................... -45'+/-30' (i.e. -15' to -1° 15') [-58' +/-30' sport]
> Max camber diff left to right............ 30'
> Toe out on turns at 20° steering..... 1° 31' +/-20'
> Castor angle (not adjustable) ........ +7° 58' [+8° 15' sport]
> Max castor diff left to right ............. 30'
> 
> Rear camber .................................... (see table for quattro) {-2° +/-20' FWD}
> Max camber diff left to right ............ 20'
> Rear toe .......................................... +7.5' +7.5'/-5' (i.e. +2.5' to +15') {+14' [+19.5' sport] +/-5' FWD}*
> 
> View attachment 6


I have a pre-facelift 2001 mk1 225hp.
I'm going to install the Bilstein B14 PSS shortly.

Thinking to lower to 345 or 350mm.
Should i follow the wheel alignment for vehicles with Standard running gear or with Sport running gear?

thank you


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## John-H

Hello, sorry I haven't yet replied to your PM with the same question but hopefully by replying here I might help someone else too.

I've got the same B14 kit on mine now. I used to have Koni coil overs - excellent firm handling like a go cart when first fitted. A bit crashy over speed bumps and the like. Kept on collapsing the front strut top rubber mounts - so they were a bit hard and punishing. They lasted about five years until the first spring broke and then it was a broken spring every year or two after that until I got fed up of replacing them.

That's when I fitted the B14 kit. Very different. When I first went for a drive I thought what have I done? It felt too smooth and sloppy - to comfortable - until I started pushing it round bends and then it seemed to firm up and behave quite well - progressive.

Perhaps that's 10 years of technological development for you. It's definitely better. I can plush it when I need to but drive sedately in comfort and pot holes and bumps that used to give a massive bang at the front as the strut top floating design fell out of the recess and slammed the bodywork, no longer occurs. No crashing! Much more civilised. It was the TT Shop's recommendation and good advice with the mounts too!

A couple of points: For my suspension set up I've always gone for as near standard ride height as possible to avoid speed bumps etc. I've never seen the point of slamming the car to the ground - it looks stupid as a practical consideration - roads are not that smooth.

My original ride height pre-facelift was 370 mm hub centre to wheel arch. The highest the Koni kit could be set to (with rear 5 mm plastic spacers) was 355 mm which is about facelift height. That was fine for ground clearance but coil-overs seem to have a short piston travel with a lowering objective. This tends to limit compliance and doesn't help with the crashing problem. I did notice also that the rear adjusters at this maximum height were only engaged by one thread turn!

Now the Bilstein B14: These were fitted with uprated Golf front rubber top mounts as recommended. These sit about 1cm taller so there was no problem achieving 355 mm ride hight and staying within the Bilstein recommended adjustment. With Audi 5 mm plastic spring platform spacers (very cheap) that fit under the lower spring mounts, which I already had fitted to achieve 355 mm with the Koni kit, there was no problem achieving the same height with the B14 with many threads to spare on the adjuster. The only negative comment was that adjusting the adjusters under load gouged off metal from the adjusters because of the spring's sharp edge. A smoother spring or nylon washer would have helped here - but once adjusted they were fine. You are best dropping the suspension and compressing the springs a bit whilst adjusting - or fitting a suitable nylon washer or heatsink over the spring end.

As to suspension settings - to answer your question - just keep to the figures in the tables. You'll notice that the rear tables more or lies match camber and height at one point and only diverge where sports and standard go outside each other's height possibility. It's all in the spring height for these tables. The arm tie bar length, sub frame mount centres and hubs are identical - so the tables are only really useful to check nothing is bent. The design is meant to adjust camber dynamically on compression and with with height due to the geometry.

I've got rear adjustable tie bars which for a standard height are probably not too necessary. I did experiment with different camber settings. I found setting -1.5° caused the car to behave like a fork lift truck on hard cornering - you were far more likely to lose the back end. -2.2° to -2.5° degrees has a far more neutral handling characteristic - although I have got a 16 mm rear anti roll bar which tends to give less understeer.

I hope that helps


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## NtG

First of all thank you for your reply.


John-H said:


> Now the Bilstein B14: These were fitted with uprated Golf front rubber top mounts as recommended. These sit about 1cm taller so * there was no problem achieving 355 mm ride hight and staying within the Bilstein recommended adjustment*. With Audi 5 mm plastic spring platform spacers (very cheap) that fit under the lower spring mounts, which I already had fitted to achieve 355 mm with the Koni kit, there was no problem achieving the same height with the B14 with many threads to spare on the adjuster. The only negative comment was that adjusting the adjusters under load gouged off metal from the adjusters because of the spring's sharp edge. A smoother spring or nylon washer would have helped here - but once adjusted they were fine. *You are best dropping the suspension and compressing the springs a bit whilst adjusting -* or fitting a suitable nylon washer or heatsink over the spring end.


do you remember the settings on the suspensions in order to achive the 355mm? photo below show Bilstein recommended adjustments.
Standard wheel size on ours 225 prefacelift was 17". I've fitted 18" (Ronals from v6).








I agree with you. I don't want to lower the car that much, I'm aiming to 350mm (facelift and QS model, correct me if i'm wrong) or 340mm.. on the latter the last thing i'd want is wheels touch the arch/body on every small bump!
Do you think that on 340mm i would have this problem?

For suspension settings, I'm also referring to the front wheel alignment. there are some differences in camber / caster.

Which adjustable tie arms do you use?

thank you!


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## John-H

I've got the Forge rear adjustable tie bars in the lower position which allows easy adjustment.

I don't get wheels hitting arch liners at 355 mm. I doubt you would at 340 mm but you would hit the bump stops sooner so perhaps more prone to crashing.

I can't remember the adjuster length dimensions, I could measure them but there may be differences between yours and mine such as rear spacers and front bushes - you are better adjusting sat on the wheels. Start highest and lower to the correct position.

Front tie, caster and camber I left at standard setting. Without adjustable top mounts you have limited adjustment here anyway and you may need your front sub frame shifting to properly balance everything including castor.


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## NtG

i had the Bilstein B14 pps9 fitted in my 225 coupe a few months ago. Yesterday out of curiosity had a wheel-alignment-scan by a local tyre-garage that has a system from Hunter. Below the results.

Fronts









Rears









Today i measured heights on all wheels.
(FL: Front Left, FR: Front Right, RL: Rear Left. RR: Rear Right)

Arch to wheel-center:
FL: 342 mm
FR: 345 mm
RL: 361 mm
RR: 357 mm

I don't notice anything while driving to be honest but would prefer to have all aligned properly/perfect.

What are your thoughts...?


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## John-H

Front is lower than rear. Heavy duty rubber top mounts would have helped at front.

Could get fitters to remedy alignment although you might want to realign the sub frame slightly to balance things up. You might also want to take your results.


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## NtG

Thank you vm John-H.

How negligible ... or not ... is the height difference between left and right?
In fronts: left is 3 mm lower than right
In rears: left is 4 mm higher than right



John-H said:


> Front is lower than rear. Heavy duty rubber top mounts would have helped at front.


 Bilstein b14 is height adjustable, so should i lower the rear end to match the front end?
I had found the below, not sure if correct though:
_Lower front and higher rear ride height - the weight of the car is shifted towards the front. Provides more stability while accelerating. Brake response is faster since weight is already where the braking power is highest.
Equal front and rear ride height - weight is distributed equally.
High front and Low rear ride height - the weight of the car is shifted to the rear, provides immediate throttle response during acceleration. Not bad thing during the start phase, but braking response will suffer too much. Because we are not talking about Drag race, this configuration is not used very often._



John-H said:


> Could get fitters to remedy alignment although you might want to realign the sub frame slightly to balance things up.


 Also with the new suspension, were fitted in the wishbones the cookbots including rear bushes with increased caster https://www.cbauto.co.uk/cookbotsincbush
not sure how much does it affect on alignment.., or what value should i target to get?
_(Castor angle (not adjustable) ........ +7° 58' [+8° 15' sport])_


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## John-H

The sleeved / smaller bushes in the TCA won't affect alignment.

Having the rear higher than the front is not so good as the roll centre line drawn from rear roll centre to front roll centre means that under braking whilst turning the rear can go light and cause overseer as the centre of gravity is above the roll centre and greater at the rear. The car pivots along the centre line. In the extreme it can behave like a fork lift truck and tail spin. If you keep the rear low you reduce the tendency.

Rear adjustable the bars can help but from experience I know that the above roll tendency can be made worse by setting less negative camber which raises the rear height too. Toe, camber and height are interrelated at the rear.

I've got mine set to 355 mm all round which works well for me as I want to avoid problems with speed bumps and ground clearance etc.

I think I'd try raising the front to balance things but as I say, there's a maximum height extension Bilstein recommend - that's to do with the piston extension that might hit the stop too soon on rebound. Uprated rubber top mounts help as they raise the vehicle without extending the piston to the same extent. But you could just try raising anyway. If it's a problem you'll notice crashing over speed bumps etc as the pistons hit the stops and the rubber top mounts drop out and the retaining cups hit the body.


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## infidel.uk

i really should sort mine out, its never been done since subframe was removed twice now.


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## NtG

John-H said:


> The sleeved / smaller bushes in the TCA won't affect alignment.


My 2001 came with standard suspensions, so the caster should have been +7° 58'. I guess now that car is lowered do i have to realign the subframe in order to make it +8° 15'? (as per below photo, my left caster is 7.30 and right 8.08)
Since doing all this effort, should i have some poly fitted for subframe?



John-H said:


> Rear adjustable the bars can help but from experience I know that the above roll tendency can be made worse by setting less negative camber which raises the rear height too. Toe, camber and height are interrelated at the rear.


 I will try to make both rears (left and right) same height, but if still difference in camber, i think Rear adjustable tie bars is the only way to correct camber, right?



John-H said:


> Having the rear higher than the front is not so good as the roll centre line drawn from rear roll centre to front roll centre means that under braking whilst turning the rear can go light and cause overseer as the centre of gravity is above the roll centre and greater at the rear. The car pivots along the centre line. In the extreme it can behave like a fork lift truck and tail spin. If you keep the rear low you reduce the tendency.


 Do you think that an upgrade of anti-roll bars would make the rear end more heavy/stable? like the H&R 25mm front / 21mm rear? or just make all heights even at 350mm?
would an upgrade on anti-roll bars help stability/better handling? (either different height fronts/rears or same)



John-H said:


> Uprated rubber top mounts help ...


 Poly or LCR top mounts?

thank you.


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## John-H

I went for the Mk4 Golf updated top rubber bushes.

A stiffer rear roll bar will reduce grip at the rear and promote overseer. It should be used as a final trim of handling once you have the rest set up properly.

The castor is the least thing to worry about as you can have imbalance without noticing much.

Camber should be matched if you can. The three nuts at the front TCA ball joint should be your first adjustment but if maxed out shifting the sub frame to correct can help centre. At the same time a twist can correct caster.

With the smaller bush sleeve at the front ARB I went for original Mk rubber and solid rear. The poly in the rear position it's a poor design and wears the hole oval.

Balance the height first. You might have to take the tension out of the spring to stop it digging into the rear adjuster. Adjustable rear tie bars certainly give more scope four adjustment but you might not need them.


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## Mangup1

I am new to this web site i just purchased a 2002 Audi TT Quattro ALMS about six months ago love the car but I noticed that my rear wheels started to tilted inward more and more.
I did a 4 wheel alignment at my local repair shop they inspected the rear suspension parts and bushings all are good.
my ride height from center of the rim to the lip of the fender is 350mm 
looking for some insight for this issue.


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## John-H

Is the ride height the same on both sides and have you checked the front ride heights? You can sometimes get a part broken spring end that alters height e.g. at the front right which also lifts the back left. The rear camber angle is intimately related to ride height. The other thing is that you don't need much wear at a bush to cause camber change. Wear in the ball joints in the hub can be difficult to spot.


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## Mangup1

Thanks for replying
the car has new struts/springs and mounts new front
front ride height left is 336mm and the right is 338mm
new springs installed new the rear 
rear ride height is 350mm left side and 349mm on the right side.
what is the best way to check the upper/lower bushings in the rear spindle were the tie bars connect?
what should I look for?


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## Mangup1

The alignment shop states that's the way the tires should sit because its a sports car which I disagree


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## John-H

Well, they have a point although there's a bit of imbalance. At 350mm you should be sat -2º12' (-2.2º) whereas your left is -1.9º which is what you'd expect with 360mm ride height and your right -2.5º which you'd expect with 240mm height.

If you put a jack under the trailing arm rear spring position and raise the wheel it takes the twisting force out of the arm to an extent so heaving on the top and bottom of the wheel to try and force more and less camber may show up any play. You can also take off the wheel and inspect the bushes for concentricity and play with the aid of a lever.

Your front is lower at 336/338mm which could do with raising to match the rear as you are nose diving to an extent and having the rear high will make the back end light on cornering.


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## BadgerTT

John-H, through some mission creep from top mounts needing replacing to having found a great deal on a set of Bilsein B14 PSS while filling COVID down time, I was wondering if you remember which Golf top mounts you used as your set up sounds similar to what I am aiming for. Also are the spacers an Audi part? Assume you are happy with the overall result?


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## John-H

COVID downtime sounds serious!

Sorry I don't know the part number. I got them from the TT Shop along with the Bilstein kit on their recommendation.

The rear spacers are Audi parts. They are just a 5mm plastic spacer with a hole for the rubber pip from the spring mount platform - it pokes through and still engages with the arm despite being raised away. The description is "washer" and the part number 1J0 511 341 A.


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## imartyn

The top mount that you're probably after is the one from the Seat Leon Cupra R which is nearly as stiff as the polyurethane offerings...... Part no. 1ML412331 (£40 @ LLL Parts)

The rest of the VAG makes & models on that platform all use 1J0 412 331C (£17 @ LLL Parts)


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