# fuel duty goes up next week



## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Bloody Brown, piece of shit...there is still instability in Iraq and the prices will go up anyway as Opec announce reduction of their production.

So why the hell increase the duty now?

Fucking unbelievable this guy! 

Politicians are the most disgusting low life that exist in the world...and the biggest liars!


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

this has just been on the news - the retailer will see 4p per litre, the supplier 16p and the Government ( wankers ) a whooping *60p*
for fecks sake Tony, kick some of the bloody immigrants out which will reduce your social security outlay and thus you wont have to penalise the motorists anymore !


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

Question: Do either of you turn down a pint with a mate because "you have to save up for fuel"? :'(


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> this has just been on the news - the retailer will see 4p per litre, the supplier 16p and the Government ( wankers ) a whooping *60p*
> for fecks sake Tony, kick some of the bloody immigrants out which will reduce your social security outlay and thus you wont have to penalise the motorists anymore !


It's actually paying for NHS and educational reforms.

The 'war' has also cost 4X the immigrant exchequer bill ytd. :-/


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

> It's actually paying for NHS and educational reforms.
> 
> The 'war' has also cost 4X the immigrant exchequer bill ytd. :-/


so where does the money for the immigrants come from ?
our wages.......
whatever it goes to its fucking ludicrous - bring on the protests again! worked last time


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## cuTTsy (Jan 31, 2003)

TAX TAX TAX...
Road TAX +
Fuel TAX +
Congetion Charge +

Anymore?


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

> TAX TAX TAX...
> Road TAX +
> Fuel TAX +
> Congetion Charge +
> ...


Council Tax, VAT - it ain't going to go away!


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

As they have said since Roman times - Only two things certain in life - Death & Taxes :-/



> whatever it goes to its fucking ludicrous - bring on the protests again! worked last time


Oh......and they really worked well......


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

> Oh......and they really worked well......


yep - at the time of "Boycott the pumps" fuel was on average 86.9p per litre.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/860034.stm


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## jgoodman00 (May 6, 2002)

Thing is, I dont think people care enough any more . I hope we do see the blockades again, because it is beyond a joke. I remember about a year after the protests, fuel was down to 67p/l. It has since crept up gradually back towards this mark.

I dont understand this opec monopoly. We have our own oil, so if they choose to reduce oil production, then screw them. We can just produce more of our own & sell on the excess.


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## jgoodman00 (May 6, 2002)

Maybe we should write a generic letter of complaint, & then all members send a copy to their local mp. It wont make much difference, but they will at least be buried in paperwork for a while going through them...


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## whirlypig (Feb 20, 2003)

> bring on the protests again! worked last time


The fuel protests were a waste of time, what did they actually change, bugger all!. All I can remember is being stuck on the M18 for 6 hours while 4 farmer's tractors running on subsidised fuel blockaded the motorway.

We could do with some tips from the French, now they know how to organise a protest and it usually ends up with the government backing down


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

> The fuel protests were a waste of time, what did they actually change, bugger all!. All I can remember is being stuck on the M18 for 6 hours while 4 farmer's tractors running on subsidised fuel blockaded the motorway.
> 
> We could do with some tips from the French, now they know how to organise a protest and it usually ends up with the government backing down


NOT true!!

Read this part from the news article in the BBC web site:



> Labour was forced to abandon the controversial "fuel price escalator" it inherited from the Conservatives and faced widespread protests in 2000 about high fuel prices.
> 
> The "escalator" meant that prices increased above inflation every year.
> 
> The following year, the government cut duty on fuel in the Budget, and it had remained frozen until now, the Treasury said.


But I have to agree that inconvenienve was caused to all of us for this cause and I believe it was worth it.


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

There is always the reliable, low maintenance push bike guys ;D


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

> There is always the reliable, low maintenance push bike guys Â ;D Â


My bike is out of action at the moment... :-/ ;D


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

At the risk of being argumentative for the sake of it, the figures being bandied around suggest that the cost per month of a driver doing roughly 10k miles per year will be about Â£2.

A rise is a rise, I guess... but Â£2 per month? Big fucking deal.......


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

> A rise is a rise, I guess... but Â£2 per month? Big fucking deal.......


True, but that's stealth taxes for you. They are very clever at making people think exactly that.

Whilst we may not turn down a pint because of the price of fuel, it has implications elsewhere eg the firm that delivers the beer to the pub use petrol, so they'll probably put the cost of beer up etc etc Fine in a low interest rate environment, but that won't last for ever.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

> At the risk of being argumentative for the sake of it, the figures being bandied around suggest that the cost per month of a driver doing roughly 10k miles per year will be about Â£2.
> 
> A rise is a rise, I guess... but Â£2 per month? Big fucking deal.......


Raven is right on this...stealth taxes are not seen as much by people.

But it not just the fuel that this month will cost you Â£2 more. The national insurance went up 1%...so a few more pounds are going there. Then the alcohol and the beer went up... a few more pounds there. If you smoke the tabacco went up...add this too...and all these little pounds that if you add them you will realise that will be a lot more than Â£2.

If you add all this you may find that you pay Â£100 more per month than last year!


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

> Raven is right on this...stealth taxes are not seen as much by people.
> 
> But it not just the fuel that this month will cost you Â£2 more. The national insurance went up 1%...so a few more pounds are going there. Then the alcohol and the beer went up... a few more pounds there. If you smoke the tabacco went up...add this too...and all these little pounds that if you add them you will realise that will be a lot more than Â£2.
> 
> If you add all this you may find that you pay Â£100 more per month than last year!


How much more did you earn than last year? Oh and you live in a nice house and drive a nice car, so you can afford it. Plenty of people would gladly swap positions with you and pay Â£200 extra a year. I think that sometimes we lose sight of these things in our privelaged positions. :-/


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

> How much more did you earn than last year? Oh and you live in a nice house and drive a nice car, so you can afford it. Plenty of people would gladly swap positions with you and pay Â£200 extra a year. I think that sometimes we lose sight of these things in our privelaged positions. Â :-/


Being in a "priviledged" position does not prevent from commenting about such a thing. Are you suggesting that only "poor" people can complain about rising taxes? Â£200 or whatever may not seem like a big deal to you, me, Vlastan or whoever, but of course it's a big deal to others, people who maybe rely on the car for their work, or spend a lot of their time in the pub drinking and smoking.

If wealth redistribution is your thing, fine. It's hard to argue against taking money from the rich, but what happens to it next is the problem. The poor are not getting better off under this government, in fact they are being penalised as much as anyone else. All this money is dissappearing into a vast bureaucratic black hole...


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> Being in a "priviledged" position does not prevent from commenting about such a thing. Are you suggesting that only "poor" people can complain about rising taxes? Â£200 or whatever may not seem like a big deal to you, me, Vlastan or whoever, but of course it's a big deal to others, people who maybe rely on the car for their work, or spend a lot of their time in the pub drinking and smoking.
> 
> If wealth redistribution is your thing, fine. It's hard to argue against taking money from the rich, but what happens to it next is the problem. The poor are not getting better off under this government, in fact they are being penalised as much as anyone else. All this money is dissappearing into a vast bureaucratic black hole...


Good points, well put.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

And of course to add that being in a privileged position...didn't come alone! I don't come from a wealthy background so I have to work hard to earn what I have.

And because I have to work to earn all this, I can complain more when they come and take it back as stealth taxation.

Perhaps the only privilege is that I am clever and went to study in higher education to be better off in later life!


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

You seem to be forgetting that the government is simply seeking to generate its own "income" which it can then "spend" on our behalf.

Every year, the make little changes, little tweaks, here and there - but essentially their aim is to raise as much as they plan to spend (in simplistic terms)

What I mean to say is, if they didn't collect this money from us as a tax on fuel, they would collect it in other ways.

I'm totally against the redistribution of wealth, especially if its my wealth being redistributed - but see it as a necessary evil. Personally I'd much rather have a lower annual income tax bill but face higher indirect taxation.......


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

> Personally I'd much rather have a lower annual income tax bill but face higher indirect taxation.......


And what you see is higher taxation in your annual income (1% increase of National Insurance) and higher indirect taxation as well!! Indirect taxation includes council tax as well...as it went up 17% last year here! And what do they spend the money on...they are now fitting traffic lights in the 3rd roundabout around here!


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## whirlypig (Feb 20, 2003)

> but essentially their aim is to raise as much as they plan to spend (in simplistic terms)


Don't they aim to raise as much as is possible with too much upset and resentment with any unspent going into reserve for disasters, wars and sweeteners close to the next election? ;D


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## CapTT (Mar 2, 2003)

A lot of good valid points well put in this thread a couple of other things to consider aswell:

It may be OK to support the fuel protests if you live in a town or city with public transport but if you live at least 30 miles from the nearest train station and buses have become extinct as they have here in the lakes a car is necessary to live. No car no job and no food etc. etc..So fuel protests and no fuel threatens peoples existence which is a catch 22 situation as pointed out by the taxation points in this thread .So you can`t win.

Also there are far too many cars on our poor roads in the UK.It is too easy to get a car and the standards of driving and of vehicle roadworthyness are dropping like a lead balloon. So if it becomes more expensive to be a motorist in the UK is this a bad thing?. If it keeps more cars off the roads will it help the UK economy as a whole.?. But if it annoys the "green" freaks perhaps its a good thing.?. Who knows?.

Personally I think that petrol shouldn`t be taxed as highly as it is BUT diesel should be taxed out of existence , diesel vehicles are the most dangerous things on the roads and the removal of them whatever they may be can only benefit everybody (apart from the miserly tight wads who love expounding how their pride and joy does 350 mpg. of course.)


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

I don't particularly want the taxman taking any money off of me, but I accept that it is a necessary evil. Like many here, I too work hard, stayed on in education and have "made my way" in life not through handouts from my parents or an inheritance etc. I don't favour wealth distribution either, especially as I have had to work hard to get where I am in life.

What I am trying to say, however, is that if you can afford a TT and can run it on Optimax etc etc, you can afford the extra duty on fuel. No one likes paying more taxes, but I think sometimes that "we" lose sight of how lucky we are. But for a accident of birth and all that...

Just my view on the world; you're entitled to yours! ;D


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## phil (May 7, 2002)

> I am clever


We'll be the judge of that, vlastan.


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## phil (May 7, 2002)

> Good points, well put.


Yeah, I agree. The whole point of the labour party and even socialism is supposed to be making things fair for everybody. Unfortunately it's never the case.

I don't like the term "stealth taxes" though. How the hell's fuel tax a stealth tax. Everybody knows about it. 
Here's the problems with taxation (IMO). Feel free to slag:

Income tax isn't fair. If you earn 32K you pay the same % as somebody earning twice that. If you earn 31K you're better off (probably. I can't be arsed doing the sums).

Fuel tax isn't fair. Those of us who have to travel fork out for everybody else. Which brings me to....

Stealth taxes. It seems to mean sneaking tax rises into those easily taxable things, like booze and ****. But the problem is they all go into the treasury pot. *** tax doesn't go to the NHS. Petrol tax quite obviously doesn't go into transport. And booze tax doesn't go into making better beer. (OK so this is essentially the same point as the last one. So shoot me).

Council tax. This is really fucking me off at the moment, because of the pensioners. I'm totally with them when they say they need more money. It's obvious that they do. But it winds me up when some twat comes on the news standing in front of his mortgage free 4 bedroom house moaning about having nothing. It annoys me more that by the time I'm a pensioner (if I get that far) I doubt I'll get a state pension. Not the fault of pensioners. The fault of various governments not planning for the future (unsurprisingly).

I'm bored now.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

> Fuel tax isn't fair. Those of us who have to travel fork out for everybody else. Which brings me to....


Well if you get your way (we all know this won't happen but go with me for a moment...) then I don't want to pay tax on my bus and train tickets. In fact as a user of public transport then I think it should be tax deductable.

Oh well it's just fantasy land  I'll carry on paying tax on my income and then paying Â£2000+ per year to WAGN.


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

You can't blame the pensioners for being up in arms about the recent council tax increases. Setting aside the rights and wrongs of these increases (eg local authorities being forced by Westminster to increase spending by 6% but then only being given a 3% increase in their grant by this slimy deceitful government), these pensioners have seen their pensions decimated by various regulatory government initiatives, and then they have to cough up more to keep the local authority pension schemes topped up. Where's the justice in that?


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## jgoodman00 (May 6, 2002)

I agree that somebody has to pay. However, it seems to me that, particularly with fuel we are being made to pay for the scum who steal money from the government on the social, disability, immigration etc. If we could get a government with balls, which would actually make genuine, harsh punishments for these people who ruin this country, & make all of us genuine 'fools' pay for them it would be all the better.


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

*01/10/03 - have just heard that they are calling for people to stop driving regardless of where they are at 08.30 this morning in protest to fuel pump rises. The purpose of this is not to block the roads but to initiate a thought that should the Government go ahead with the fuel hike ( inevitable ) they may see repeats of " boycott the pump " again. I know some people have posted about remote areas and the inconvenience it causes etc...but i think another mass action may be the only resolve if the Government dont listen to reason. (IMO)*


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

Seems that the Supermarkets are going to absorb the increase... wonder if the main petrol stations will follow too ??


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## jgoodman00 (May 6, 2002)

> Seems that the Supermarkets are going to absorb the increase... wonder if the main petrol stations will follow too ??


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/031001/325/e9vqm.html

Yup, I saw that as well. Only trouble for me is, where I live we have three garages, BP, Esso & Tesco. Tesco seem to control the prices where I live, keeping them artificially high (circa 79p/l). D'Oh!


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## phil (May 7, 2002)

> *01/10/03 - have just heard that they are calling for people to stop driving regardless of where they are at 08.30 this morning in protest to fuel pump rises. The purpose of this is not to block the roads but to initiate a thought that should the Government go ahead with the fuel hike ( inevitable ) they may see repeats of " boycott the pump " again. I know some people have posted about remote areas and the inconvenience it causes etc...but i think another mass action may be the only resolve if the Government dont listen to reason. (IMO)*


Wow. That actually happened this morning. Around junction 6 of the m3 everyone seemed to stop for no bloody reason whatsoever.


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

> Wow. That actually happened this morning. Around junction 6 of the m3 everyone seemed to stop for no bloody reason whatsoever.


Isn't that just a feature of driving the M3? I filled up at a BP tonight and there was no increase in duty at that station, the Shell down the road had put it's prices up. Unsurprisingly, the BP was mobbed.


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