# 996 Engine Failiure



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Colleague bought a 3 years old 25K miles 996 cab and had oil loss and engine failiure at the weekend after 2.5 months ownership.

Think its a seal failiure which I think is not uncommon.

Can anyone point towards source of info on these?

Car is full OPC serviced including immediately before he bought it, BUT he bought from a specialist ( although Porshce Bristol have car now)

Obviously he is concerned and wants to gather info to bang the table wit hPorsche if necessary.

Ta.


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## Hilly10 (Feb 4, 2004)

Expensive :?


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## The Silver Surfer (May 14, 2002)

I do hope he has a warranty.


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## Harv (May 12, 2004)

If he has a Porsche Warranty, this is fixed FOC.

Its called an RMS Failiure i beieve

Lots written about it on www.911uk.com

A very common problem though im surprised its happened on a 3 yr old car

Wish him luck, as a gesture of goodwill as its a known issue Porsche often make a contribution as well

Cheers


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

cheers guys will pass on info.

No OPC warranty


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## markh (May 6, 2002)

Fixing the RMS is not _that _expensive, problems exist if there are other failures.

Seach around Pistonheads and http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com for lots of info.


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

Engine "failure"? In what respect?

If it is an RMS (rear main seal) it's not likely to be an engine failure. IIRC there hasn't been a reported catastrophic engine due to the seal failing.

The seal is simply the crankshaft seal on the rear of the engine between engine and gearbox. At worst it will a tiny amount of oil on the garage floor. It will not contaminate the clutch despite rumours that it will! Nor will the engine "dump" all its oil if the seal fails.
Most folk will live with the seal weeping - it's no big deal and replacement doesn't mean it's not going to happen again. 1 guy has gone through seven in as many months!

Sadly without a warranty - and despite the OPC history, getting a goodwill payment from Porsche GB is a hit and miss affair. Some get it, some don't and a few get a contribution.
If the car is with an OPC there is every chance that he will get stung for investigatory work and end up having to pay. The only advice I'd give is to get it to an independant if the OPC hasn't laid a spanner on it - it'll be far cheaper if he's advised the leakage is severe enough to warrant repair. OPC will charge around Â£800 for replacement.

If the seal needs to be changed, get clutch checked at the same time - if it's "iffy" it could save a large labour charge in future to have the clutch changed at the same time.

Porsche Club of GB forum is probably not the best source of info, they've jumped into bed with Porsche and tend to play down engine "failures"

http://www.pistonheads.com - good Porsche section

http://www.rennteam.com - straight talking

Dave


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## dj c225 (Nov 3, 2004)

garyc said:


> cheers guys will pass on info.
> 
> No OPC warranty


If he bought it from a car dealer he will have a standard 3 or 6 months warranty with the car (sorry can't remember how many months) but this is a standard warranty that afaik all dealers should provide as standard.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

dj c225 said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > cheers guys will pass on info.
> ...


Is this standard?


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

jampott said:


> dj c225 said:
> 
> 
> > garyc said:
> ...


Legal requirement is for 3 month warranty - some dealers extend this as a deal sweetener.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Sorry Tim. Bit slow this morning. Just noticed the sarcasm. :roll:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Kell said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > dj c225 said:
> ...


Doh. Yes. Probably, but I couldn't work out from DJ's post whether it was standard or not. He wasn't clear on the point.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Above...


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

He has a 3 month non Porsche dealer warranty (one month to run).

Swarf in the oil. New engine will be Â£14K.  He is waiting to hear warranty and Porsche UK outcome, but also doing his homework on RMS failiures.


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... hw=hartech

Above thread makes for interesting (sad) reading.
I'd be inclined to speak to "Hartech" at the same time as your mate is sorting out dealer/Porsche GB.
Hartechs details in page 5...guys invested a lot of money and time and in re-engineering the weak areas in these engines.

Â£14k sounds about right for a engine supplied by Porsche, the replacement engine for J's black pig cost around Â£12k fitted (recon not new!) However, I'm sure I've read that Porshe supplied engines have recently dropped a lot in price recently - Â£5/6k.

Hope it works out well for him

Dave


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## Harv (May 12, 2004)

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.ph ... st&id=3223


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## dj c225 (Nov 3, 2004)

jampott said:


> Doh. Yes. Probably, but I couldn't work out from DJ's post whether it was standard or not. He wasn't clear on the point.


Standard Standard Standard Standard Standard Standard Standard Standard Standard Standard Standard Standard Standard Standard.

For all those that missed the point  :lol:

Hope all works out for your buddy and the warranty will cover it, let us know the outcome.


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## jam (May 8, 2002)

What are the symptoms of RMS failure or will i basically know if it happens?!

Cheers

James


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## markh (May 6, 2002)

James, anyone with a 996 needs to do their research. Using the links/forums mentioned I reckon you need to settle down to a long read.


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## VORLAND (Jun 14, 2004)

The 996 engine is notorius for the following faults on pre 2000 models:

1. Intermediate Shaft Failure
2. RMS leaks that need the seal replacing more then twice which means a new engine is needed.

The post 2000 models have a re inforced intermediate shaft and and the RMS seal is strengthened ( i.e. slightly larger ).

You can get an official re conditioned engine from Porsche for about Â£8k including part exing your old one. Essentially they keep the case and replace all the internals so that the next unlucky chap can have that engine. The engine block you get includes everything extra attached to it so labour should be just 1 day and is a straight bolt on job.

You can go to a specialist like Zentrum in Nottingham or any really. They can order from Porsche direct so you dont have to pay dealership prices for labour. Speak to the specialists and you will find out how notorious this fault is.

This has happened to many many Porsche owners... Porsche have not admitted that this is an engine design fault.

Hope things work out ok for the guy...


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## jam (May 8, 2002)

markh said:


> James, anyone with a 996 needs to do their research. Using the links/forums mentioned I reckon you need to settle down to a long read.


Just had a gander at that lot - hmmmmm not good!

Mines an 03 model though so hopefully won't be as prone to the problems.

It's been in the garage because I had a bump - been without it for nearly 3 weeks - picking it up again this afternoon - can't wait to get back in it!!!


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## mab (Sep 2, 2002)

I realised there was a known issue when I bouight mine, but simply took the gamble as 911 was the only car that ticked all boxes at the time. 18 months on and still no problems, touch wood...

One question I have is given that mine is pre-2000 and now at nearly 80k miles has never missed a beat, am I pretty much free from risk of this failure or does it not work like that? I seem to recall all issues I've read about being low mileage cars.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Update:

Porsche Stuttgart have refused to help as car was sold by a Porsche specialist rather than an OPC, even though the car only has 25,000 miles and has full OPC service history.

So it's down to the 3 month dealer warranty...


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## Sim (Mar 7, 2003)

garyc said:


> Update:
> 
> Porsche Stuttgart have refused to help as car was sold by a Porsche specialist rather than an OPC, even though the car only has 25,000 miles and has full OPC service history.
> 
> So it's down to the 3 month dealer warranty...


Wish him luck.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Update:

Result!

Whilst Porsche Stuttgardt were unsympathetic, Porsche UK have agreed to provide a new engine FOC. The non-OPC specialist will then fit it free of charge and then PUK will give the whole car 130 point check and then issue a new 12 month guarantee for whole car as long as it stays in OPC servicing.

Colleague is smiling agian! It's good to have a happy ending and persistence pays.


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## Harv (May 12, 2004)

nice one, im pleased for him
Good way to start the weekend


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## The Silver Surfer (May 14, 2002)

That's a good result. I bet your colleague is relieved.


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

Sounds about right, with a little goodwill from the UK importer. If the car was 3 years old it was no-longer covered by the manufacturer's 24 month warranty. The UK importer would, through the dealers, offer an additional 12 months warranty. In this case the date limit has passed and so the importer could refuse all claims, regardless of the mileage of the car. In reality they have greater confidence in Porsche's product than the manufacturer does, especially as all the service history is OPC. If Gary's mate had been dissatisfied with the Porsche and not immediately bought another one, the industry average is 6 changes of car before even reconsidering a marque after a dissatisfaction. It is also reckoned that for every dissatisfied customer, that you will lose another 10 customers that you didn't realise you potentially had through word of mouth. If the cost of replacing the engine is Â£8k, then it is a little over Â£700 per potential customer. That would be considered good value for money marketing.

At least Porsche UK did the right thing, even if Porsche AG are clearly not as customer focused as they would like us to think.!


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## Sim (Mar 7, 2003)

That is great news and did not need the intervention of watchdog :wink:


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

That's a good and proper decision.

Unfortunately Porsche GB/AG seem to apply goodwill on an inconsistent basis.
Last engine failure I heard of resulted in the owner being left out in the cold as the car (3 year old) came from outside the dealer network but with a full OPC history.

Dave


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## donna_kebab (May 8, 2002)

What a Nightmare!! How is he getting on? I spent a long time researching all this before buying the Carrera, and then made sure that I picked a car with Manufacturers Warranty purely because of this. Not what he wants to hear, but IMHO its still extremely bad for Porsche not to recognise it as a fault (like Audi have acknowledged the Dashpod etc)

My car had RMS Failure last year and the RMS was replaced under warranty at East Sussex Porche and they replaced the intermediate seal as precautionary measure, - seems like a plan whilst ever the engine is on the floor, now the Intermediate Seal is sweating a little again, but Porsche Guildford agree it is covered for further work / replacement under warranty.

BTW, one thing I didn't know until recently is that specialist independants can do servicing without invalidating the OPC Warranty. (Well some anyway, I don't know whether there is an approved list of specialists, but my next service will be at Camtune, at 50% of the labour price of an Approved Dealer SC.

Good Luck with sorting this nightmareâ€¦..


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

All work done. Car has had 130 point check from OPC and new i year warranty issued. This can be extended in one year as per the normal factory deal.

He is now happy and confident with the car and the Porsche warranty protection. Not without a couple of sleepless nights beforehand though..


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## jbell (May 15, 2006)

Boxsters can be affected by this as well. My Fathers 'S' had a RMS failure last month, the dealer noticed it was going at a service. Porsche goodwilled all the parts and 75% of the labour as it is a common problem especially on Tiptronics. This saved over Â£800.


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