# H&R Springs??



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Has anyone any experience of these in performance cars??

Just booked the beast into AmD to have new springs (H&R Developed) fitted, the day before Combe & according to AmD, these will lower the car by 20mm & give huge handling gains without comprimising everyday road use.

Overall the supply & fitting will cost around Â£1000 which seems fairly expensive to me, but as i've no real experience of handling mods, only performance/power, i can't be certain if this represents a good bang for my buck. I do require the handling to be improved, certainly for track work & spirited driving 8)


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

Used H&R springs on my TT - was pleased. I take it for your Â£1000 thats Springs / shocks and setup ??


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## L7 (Aug 27, 2004)

Sounds about right havn't done this but spent plenty of time looking.

Also with the sort of power your car has i wouldn't skimp on any performance mod's feel free to drop your car round my house once fitted and i'll give you an honest opinion


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

coupe-sport said:


> Used H&R springs on my TT - was pleased. I take it for your Â£1000 thats Springs / shocks and setup ??


Yes, no & sort of.

The price is Â£700 + VAT & thats just for springs & fitting (no set-up for springs). If i wanted new shocks, that would be a further Â£1000  .

AmD say the fitting time is close to 6 hours all told for just the springs.

Still considering whether to go for the AmD Stage 3 power & have Sports Cats added to my current Stage 2, but thats another Â£2000 including the VAT & only gives me a further 20BHP power gain, but its meant to provide a huge improvement in the mid - top ranges.


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

F*cking hell ... how do they justify that price for just springs !!! - dampers are they electronically adjustable or something. Those prices are very high :?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

coupe-sport said:


> F*cking hell ... how do they justify that price for just springs !!! - dampers are they electronically adjustable or something. Those prices are very high :?


Thats what i thought, but its the price they quote. I've attached the link

http://www.auto-amd.com/rs6.asp


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## Justhe1 (Jul 2, 2002)

I also used H&R springs on my TT, and personally found them a bit harsh & "bouncy" - although this may not be the case when teamed up with uprated shocks..

HTH

J


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

Ah - Sportec items - very high quality but cant see why they are so expensive over everything else - Â£770 +vat is ludicrous


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

Slightly off topic! but is it advisable to have new shocks fitted the day b4 taking your car on a track, I thought these were like tyres and brakes needing to be bedded in b4 hard driving.
I may be wrong though :?

Jonah


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## jonno (May 7, 2002)

The Sportec RS600 conversion sounds really scary:



AmD said:


> Stage 5 Sportec Stage 3 Engine conversion RS 600
> Conversion with bigger Sportec turbochargers (K04.600), Sportec air filter system, complete exhaust system with sports cats, modified air intake system, modify the water-cooling-system, engine and gear cooling system, special electronic conversion for the engine and also for the gearbox, modify the cylinder-heads and Sportec camshafts, Workshop time required 4 weeks
> 
> Output: 613 bhp
> ...


Workshop time - 4 weeks (!), and Â£35k :lol:


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

I currently have H&R springs on my TT. Slightly firmer ride than standard but not overly harsh, 20-25mm lower and overall a worth while upgrade. Sure I paid about Â£350 inc. VAT and fitting for them though.


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## Ryan (Feb 6, 2004)

wow thats mega pricey mate.I'd go for dampers with those springs as they will mess up your geometry on there own.I'm going for blistein dampers/h&r springs and rear adjustable tie bars .


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Paul, check to see if they are 'linear' or 'progressive'. If they are anything like the H&R TT springs which are linear, i would avoid them unless being fitted with new adjustable shocks. This is becasue linear springs are closed and you might get clanking.

Also if they are progressive (which in my opinion is better), you will need to 'bed' them in, so i would avoid a trackday immediatly after fitting.

Cheers


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

It shouldnt make any difference with clanking whether linear or progressive - they are still the same effective length - just the spring rate is different across the length of the spring on a progressive item - the progressive will give a smoother general ride, only firming up during hard cornering. Is the clanking from the spring rotating in the cup ??

James.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

coupe-sport said:


> It shouldnt make any difference with clanking whether linear or progressive - they are still the same effective length - just the spring rate is different across the length of the spring on a progressive item - the progressive will give a smoother general ride, only firming up during hard cornering. Is the clanking from the spring rotating in the cup ??
> 
> James.


James, the TT H&R springs are 'closed' linear, which means they will not open up past a set length. On the TT the length of these springs are exceeded should you be on full lock, or as you say under hard cornering. Unfortuantely it has also been reported that there is clanking should you go over potholes or a majorly uneven surface. Compare these to 'open' progressive springs, and you will see that the progressive springs will open out past the maximum length on a TT's roll, hence no clanking.

The clanking is believed to originate from the cup when teh length is exceeded. AmD solved this by putting a 'sleeve' around the spring, however this just made the ride hieght higher by about 5-10mm, which is pointless IMO and goes against why you lower a car in the first place.

Personally if i was to buy 'springs only', i would always go for progressive, especially after having the APEX springs on the TTR and experiencing the difference.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

coupe-sport said:


> Ah - Sportec items - very high quality but cant see why they are so expensive over everything else - Â£770 +vat is ludicrous


On reflection though, all RS6 mods are way more expensive than TT mods. The re-map is well over 3 times the price & the Milltek about the same multiple over the TT.

Its all down to the workshop time (according to AmD)


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> Paul, check to see if they are 'linear' or 'progressive'. If they are anything like the H&R TT springs which are linear, i would avoid them unless being fitted with new adjustable shocks. This is becasue linear springs are closed and you might get clanking.
> 
> Also if they are progressive (which in my opinion is better), you will need to 'bed' them in, so i would avoid a trackday immediatly after fitting.
> 
> Cheers


Cheers Kev, i'll ask AmD this question tomorrow.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jonah said:


> Slightly off topic! but is it advisable to have new shocks fitted the day b4 taking your car on a track, I thought these were like tyres and brakes needing to be bedded in b4 hard driving.
> I may be wrong though :?
> 
> Jonah


I'll have a 150 mile jaunt on back roads (spirited) before i arrive at Combe, so don't forsee any problems with bedding in.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Ryan said:


> wow thats mega pricey mate.I'd go for dampers with those springs as they will mess up your geometry on there own.I'm going for blistein dampers/h&r springs and rear adjustable tie bars .


AmD are renowned for being VAG specialists & they assured me that bang for buck, i'm better off doing the springs than fitting adjustable shocks & that changing the springs without shocks is far better than shocks without springs.


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

Cheers Kev... did suffer clanking on full lock on mine (sounded like it was rotating in the cup)...

I'll agree to disagree with you :wink:


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

> Its all down to the workshop time (according to AmD)


hmm...


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> Paul, check to see if they are 'linear' or 'progressive'. If they are anything like the H&R TT springs which are linear, i would avoid them unless being fitted with new adjustable shocks. This is becasue linear springs are closed and you might get clanking.
> 
> Also if they are progressive (which in my opinion is better), you will need to 'bed' them in, so i would avoid a trackday immediatly after fitting.
> 
> Cheers


AmD are almost positive they're linear, as most Sportec / H&R springs appear to be. They are calling Sportec now to double check, but the changes to handling are meant to be far greater than just slamming the car 20MM & these springs were specifically co-developed by H&R & Sportec.

They will also be checking with Sportec as to other RS6 owners experiences as quite a few have been done.

If i went for adjustable shocks as well (which i can't really afford right now), this would be the perfect set-up, but at a further Â£1200+ this is a touch too pricey & i'd like to see how the springs improve handling over stock, before i venture any further.


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## fire_storm (Jun 10, 2003)

I agree with most others here that those costs seem a bit high, the H&R spring kit only costs Â£222.31 inc VAT. http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?id=29298-1


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

I think the biggest cost is the labour at 6 hr's which would relate to around Â£500, its differcult to compare to the TT unless the TT takes 6 hrs too :?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

fire_storm said:


> I agree with most others here that those costs seem a bit high, the H&R spring kit only costs Â£222.31 inc VAT. http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?id=29298-1


You'll note, that an RS6 is not the same as a TT & hence why the springs are far more expensive.

Although labour is the biggest cost element, the RS6 has a very high tech suspension system with electronic damper control & various other wizardry which sets it apart from most other cars, hence why Sportec & H&R had to specially develop these springs & why the labour time require to fit is higher than more regualr cars.

This electronic dmaper control etc. is also why replacing the shocks is not really an advisable move & grounding won't be an issue at 20mm lower, due to a vast void of space in the upper part of the wheel arch.


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

Paul - have you looked at MTM options ?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

coupe-sport said:


> Paul - have you looked at MTM options ?


I have, but according to them, the AmD offering is different as AmD's are actually Sportec that were co-developed by H&R.

Probably not much in it on paper though.


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## gcp (Aug 8, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> jonah said:
> 
> 
> > Slightly off topic! but is it advisable to have new shocks fitted the day b4 taking your car on a track, I thought these were like tyres and brakes needing to be bedded in b4 hard driving.
> ...


Are you going via anywhere nice then ?, done this run a few times and cannot make it more than 80 miles.

I would recommend going via.
Aynho
Deddington
Chipping Norton
Burford
Bibury
Cirencester
Malmesbury
Chippenham

All but the last two segments offer potential :wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

gcp said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > jonah said:
> ...


Guess i got my maths & geography a little out. May have to play in the Bicester area for a little longer then :wink:


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> jonah said:
> 
> 
> > Slightly off topic! but is it advisable to have new shocks fitted the day b4 taking your car on a track, I thought these were like tyres and brakes needing to be bedded in b4 hard driving.
> ...


Paul, if the springs are progressive, you will need a minimum of 500 miles for them to settle properly, so i wouldn't chance a track day if this is the case. Once your 500 miles is up and they have settled, you can then go for the necessary alignment check.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > jonah said:
> ...


Kev, they're linear & i've been told that only a few miles is enough to settle them. As said earlier in the thread, the fact the RS6 has electronic wizardry at work on the suspension & electronic dampers, these new Sportec springs ought to compliment the set-up perfectly (may even look better slammed by 20mm).


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