# TTRS FEEL INADEQUATE!



## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

Did what Clarkson did on Sunday night and drove the new GTR this afternoon and was blown away from its performance. I thought all the talk about performance improvements like Mitchy is on about it would make our TTRS's comparable with a factory GTR. How wrong was I! 
Car was brouught down from Cambridge for us to test drive and car does feel a bit heavy and cumbersome on slow twisty roads, but suspension is softer than TTRS on these roads, but on the B roads the turbo spools up so quick i was gobsmacked, and at the end i had dribble running down my face. 
I have to hand to them that it an awesome car ! Don't care what you do to the TTRS it AIN'T gonna compete with that monster, Datsun or not I would seriously think about this being my next car.


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

That comes as no surprise really, the performance of that car is in another league to anything with three-hundred-and-something horsepower.

Iirc when it was first tested the GT-R was shown to also be producing considerably more power than quoted.

I have never driven one but wonder if even the TT Shop project RS could be anywhere close?

As an aside, as impressive as the performance no doubt is, you would never see the right-side of 30mpg on a run! Plus I could never own that sort of car anyway and if that size/style was really your sort of thing then why not already have an RS5 or RS6 as opposed to a TT?


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## VerTTigo (Nov 14, 2009)

powerplay said:


> That comes as no surprise really, the performance of that car is in another league to anything with three-hundred-and-something horsepower.
> 
> Iirc when it was first tested the GT-R was shown to also be producing considerably more power than quoted.
> 
> ...


An RS5 will get humiliated buy a GT-R in any performance comparision too...


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## Axel1 (Jul 17, 2011)

The GTR is way too big for my tastes. And with a base price of USD $89,950. versus the TTRS's $56,850. is a tad bit more expensive. I imagine you have a similar UK price spread. I can drive the TTRS fast whereas personally I'd probably kill myself in a GTR. Reviews have likened the GTR as a "loaded gun" whose owner's rarely have a chance to pull the trigger. As such it is mainly for show... and whereas many non-enthusiasts think it is ugly, it wouldn't be impressing them much. Enthusiasts probably couldn't care what it looks like... just how it performs. To me the GTR probably represents the best value to performance of any supercar at present.

Just would be too big and not as much fun to drive for me.


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## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

VerTTigo said:


> An RS5 will get humiliated buy a GT-R in any performance comparision too...


So would pretty much every single car available. I don't think that was the point he was making though.

Charlie


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## moncler1 (Sep 28, 2008)

My TiTTy has the same Loba WMI conversion as the TTS shop green car, and where I am working a really nice guy has a GTR, chipped to 530 or something. Plan is to take each other out for a comparison, but I am expecting to soundly beaten.

For interest on the works weighbridge my manual car came in at 1500 Kg, but I had over half a tank of juice and bags and crap for working away to about 20Kg. With saving 32 Kg on seats and 20 on wheels and discs recently I should be about 1450Kg now.

So will 490 (RR) match 520 with maybe a 300Kg weight saving.

Obviously he will kill mine on gear changes.


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

Yes the TTshop and Jonny c's motor are at the top of the scale but lads its difficult to explain the difference between a fast sports car eg a tuned TTRS (mine has revo 1 , miltek and air filter) to an missile!, it looks big but when driving it all is forgotton. Some members have some pretty fast cars here, but todays ride really got me excited , I normally dont like posts that have numbers because on the road it doesnt really mean alot but i reckon that car is a good 30% quicker than mine.


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## moncler1 (Sep 28, 2008)

Think you're right, the car is witchcraft


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

i haven't driven either RS5 or RS6 , but i would reckon the 5 isnt any quicker that my RS, the 6 is bigger than the GTR and similar money though, drove the R8 V10 a few months ago and i wasn't even that taken away by the performance or the price tag £106,000 secondhand!
A tuned TTRS isnt much slower than the R8 V10 for sure, I even bet the big boys with the Loba conversion would beat it all day long


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## Simon H (Jun 22, 2008)

Was this the new 2011 MY car you drove ?.


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

Simon H said:


> Was this the new 2011 MY car you drove ?.


Yes Simon had 400 miles on the clock and was only delivered yesterday to the dealership.


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)




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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

My friend has one and it's not 30% quicker at all, in fact I am quicker till he changes gear (gen 1 GTR)
Also Jason has run V a few GTR and been faster.
I have also boxed a GTR in when he let me get level then flawed it (cock) when I tried to pass, he got boxed in and must have been very red faced lol.

Yes they are fast but our cars are already doing sub 9 seconds to 100mph a GTR is not 30% faster than that :roll:

I think you just got a bit happy going in one :lol:


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

W7 PMC on here has a GTR and does bring it on meets for fun..its got extra stuff on and mapped..now that is witchcraft and he did 197mph at Vmax a couple of months back..no TTRS got close to that time.
Steve


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

The new GTR comes with a £70k pricetag so is certainly not cheap. It is unlikely you will get discount from that either which makes it expensive. The depreciation isn't too bad on the <MY10 cars, £60k new with 3yr old examples selling for £35-40k but this is a £70k car, more to lose.

Sub 20mpg, high road tax, extortionate insurance costs. Horror stories of exploding bonnets and waving bye bye to the warranties for too many launches etc, it comes with some horror running costs. It must eat tyres and brakes too.

The TT may have a hairdresser image, the GTR has a chav, rudeboy image. Loud, and in your face.

The car is no doubt quick, very quick but it is also very heavy. It is the gearbox that flatters the car. If it were manual it wouldn't be the same, a tuned Auto TTRS is going to get close to this, guaranteed, PWR being similar and both with instant shift boxes. The TT though probably costs half or even as much as a third to run over it though.

Sure you can then tune the GTR but it begins to get a little silly for road use. 100mph is a license loser and you're only going to ever have a few seconds before you're looking out for the blue lights. 550 is about as much as you would want or need in a road car, anything more is overkill.

Certainly cracking cars but I don't think I'll ever own 1. Much rather a used 997TT PDK


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

Yes 997 turbo is a great choice but gen 3 is on the way and well over £100k


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

vwcheung said:


> Yes 997 turbo is a great choice but gen 3 is on the way and well over £100k


...and gen 4 is probably already in testing...LOL!!!


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

mrdemon said:


> My friend has one and it's not 30% quicker at all, in fact I am quicker till he changes gear (gen 1 GTR)
> Also Jason has run V a few GTR and been faster.
> I have also boxed a GTR in when he let me get level then flawed it (cock) when I tried to pass, he got boxed in and must have been very red faced lol.
> 
> ...


No mate I love Audi and my RS , until you have driven one you won't believe me , I was confident that my car would do well against it but I am genuinely astonished with the power this car has. Go drive the new one then give me a comment, see for yourself.


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## R80RTT (Feb 5, 2011)

V6RUL said:


> W7 PMC on here has a GTR and does bring it on meets for fun..its got extra stuff on and mapped..now that is witchcraft and he did 197mph at Vmax a couple of months back..no TTRS got close to that time.
> Steve


Thats 9 mph quicker than the TT shops RS...


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

R80RTT said:


> V6RUL said:
> 
> 
> > W7 PMC on here has a GTR and does bring it on meets for fun..its got extra stuff on and mapped..now that is witchcraft and he did 197mph at Vmax a couple of months back..no TTRS got close to that time.
> ...


Paul maybe at the Millstone on Monday for the monthly meet and there may be a run out.
Steve


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

vwcheung said:


> mrdemon said:
> 
> 
> > My friend has one and it's not 30% quicker at all, in fact I am quicker till he changes gear (gen 1 GTR)
> ...


Is yours fettled with? Like mr demon/david has said a stock GTR is actually a teeny weeny bit slower when dragging to silly speeds. This is a 1st gen GTR though. My mate then went on to spunk 8k on the GTR and now it truly is in another league running 650bhp and is hassling my mates 700hp evo instead. The GTR has had to have all strengthned new gearbox internals to cope with the power.

GTR price tag at 70k new is still good value on the face of things, but depreciation is stupidly heavy due to the stupidly expensive running costs which are roughly 3 times as high as a 997 turbo is based on an annual mileage of 15000 miles. Also everytime you track the bloody thing you have to get it serviced.

The main reason why I didnt get a GTR is because of weight. Weight and fast makes going fast so much more expensive. Extra weight means you need extra power, meaning you then need stronger components which then again add extra weight. You need bigger tyres and bigger brakes and again more power due to the added weight of strengthened components. This in turn means you are using more fuel, your tyres dont last long, and neither do your brakes. And because they are so big and exotic they cost and arm and a leg. Full set of pads and discs on a GTR is over 4k :lol: Ive already had 3 sets of pads and 1 set of discs on the humble little TT and a set of tyres.

Clever money is on a used 997 turbo. They tune just as well and a pdk 911 turbo is quicker also. The new 991 porka 911 is out in sept and that already in carrera s form is a stupendous car. Its the first proper new 911 in 12 years and porsche arent messing about, its gonna wipe the floor with the GTR. Porsche say the carrera s mule has done the ring in 7 mins 38. Its 450hp so you can only imagine how powerful the GT3 and turbo versions are gonna be. 500hp for the GT3 and 550hp for the turbo I bet.

991 porka for me next. 700hp on stock turbos hopefully 

Kinda veered off track there didnt I lol.

So in a summary, yes very very capable cars, but would I own one outside of warranty and without the fixed price service pack? Hellll no.


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

Fettled? Tuned yes revo 1 catback milteck and filter so I guess it's no slouch. Yes next car I'll test is the gen 2 turbo. Totally agree with ur points, but if out of warranty the GT3 is silly too £20k for a new engine ! ok it might be bulletproof but spending £70-80k on a used car with say a years warranty is a gamble too.


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

vwcheung said:


> Fettled? Tuned yes revo 1 catback milteck and filter so I guess it's no slouch. Yes next car I'll test is the gen 2 turbo. Totally agree with ur points, but if out of warranty the GT3 is silly too £20k for a new engine ! ok it might be bulletproof but spending £70-80k on a used car with say a years warranty is a gamble too.


The thing with the the GT3 is though you can drive it to the nurb, enter a 24 hour race, be competitive in it, then drive it back to england without the need for any real TLC as proven by a mag. The GTR however will do a couple laps, overheat its tranny, ruin its brakes or drop into limp mode for some reason or other.

911 with extended warranty pack, and your good to go. TTRS engine is apparently near 20k also btw


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## jns2001 (May 25, 2011)

My next car in two years will be a 911. Just love that car.


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

that GTR at Vmax which did 197 had 750BHP btw 

As for gen 2 over gen 1 it cannot be that much faster they spent more time on driver feel not a power increase.
it's still not a very fast car when you look at a 997 turbo S gen 2 :lol:

lets take out the launch control and look at 100-200 thats 8.1 seconds (gen 1 8.7)
Mitchy stock car does it in 9.07 I am sure he will match the gen 2 GTR when it's remapped.

And the turbo s is 6.8 which is in another ball park

As I say 30% quicker is just you getting excited 

as the GTR at vmax had 750Bhp


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## pa06has (May 16, 2011)

Interesting read.......

When I first looked at purchasing a new car it were between two; GTR and the TTRS; Yes you are correct that nothing would compare to the GTR; I am fortunate to live quite close to the main importer of the GTR - Middlehurst and often pop down to see whats in. When i spoke to Andy down there I mentioned that I was interested in the two cars which roughly worked out at the same cost my TTRS 10 plate brand new and the GTR I was looking at priced at 47K!

When I mentioned the other car I was interested in he giggled to himself and said that their was no way that an TTRS would keep up with the GTR and even said that a R8 would also struggle; the GTR is an awesome and unique piece of kit; the power delivary is unreal.......I can even remember the feeling that thing caterpulted me into orbit. Just completely INSANE; however and this is a BIG however I would never own one for these reasons below;
- Service every 6 months at roughly 1k at time.
- Replacement tyres every year - 2k. 
- Insurance .........Wouldnt want to say.
- When something does go wrong it isnt a quick take to the garage its a HOW MUCH???

For those reasons alone i wouldnt touch one. TTRS with a couple of tweaks is a very good car to drive day in day out and the running costs is brilliant.


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

Yes agree with you on that about the gen 1 vs the gen 2, ive nothing against Mitchy or MRC had my S3 remapped by Doug and think the world of him but just get tired about Mitchy writing constantly about numbers and a remap that he doesnt even have yet. Yes MRC are the dog's nuts but all is put into perspective when you jump into the GTR, loads of mods on the TTRS and it isnt close to the GTR in inline performance thats a fact. 
If you want a fast car its a TTRS if you want a rocket get a 997 turbo PDK or GTR.In my eyes Mitchy seems to want the performance of the latter, Maybe I'm wrong?


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

pa06has said:


> Interesting read.......
> 
> When I first looked at purchasing a new car it were between two; GTR and the TTRS; Yes you are correct that nothing would compare to the GTR; I am fortunate to live quite close to the main importer of the GTR - Middlehurst and often pop down to see whats in. When i spoke to Andy down there I mentioned that I was interested in the two cars which roughly worked out at the same cost my TTRS 10 plate brand new and the GTR I was looking at priced at 47K!
> 
> ...


You hit the nail on the head thats why i dont see the point of loads of talk about crazy mods on the RS that isnt gonna make it a rocket, stage 1 or 2 is plenty anymore and you might aswell change to something really fast.


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

vwcheung said:


> Yes agree with you on that about the gen 1 vs the gen 2, ive nothing against Mitchy or MRC had my S3 remapped by Doug and think the world of him but just get tired about Mitchy writing constantly about numbers and a remap that he doesnt even have yet. Yes MRC are the dog's nuts but all is put into perspective when you jump into the GTR, loads of mods on the TTRS and it isnt close to the GTR in inline performance thats a fact.
> If you want a fast car its a TTRS if you want a rocket get a 997 turbo PDK or GTR.In my eyes Mitchy seems to want the performance of the latter, Maybe I'm wrong?


A manual TTRS is like a TTS in comparison to a TTRS, it's the same step up again with S-Tronic. My opinion.

Not quite sure what you are getting fed up of, I'm carrying out tests on the standard car so I have a benchmark to note the improvement with the tune. Forget MRC, it could be revo, bluefin, sportec or any other tuner, the vbox is a very useful tool to note the performance increases.

You really dont think a remapped S-Tronic is going to get close to a stock GTR (485/530) when I have already posted evidence of 0-60 in 3.6 and 0-100 in 8.5? How quick do you think these GTR's are?

At the last MLR day, there was 1 TTRS car running and he got very close to the stock GTR's and he's quicker than that now. That's with a manual box losing half a second every gear change.

I think you over estimate the performance of the GTR and underestimate the performance of a tuned RS, there's very little in it. Sure you can tune the GTR easily and leave the TT behind but that wasn't the comparison made.

You dont need to look at my threads mate, Im just trying to push the boundaries :roll:


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

vwcheung said:


> pa06has said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting read.......
> ...


But a S1/S2 manual TTRS is pretty much the same as a standard S-Tronic, (0-60, 0-100, 1/4m) so I did change up to a faster car, albeit the same 1 with a different box.

Standard vs standard, GTR wins, Modded vs modded, GTR wins, there's no denying that and it's not fair comparing modded vs standard, but never the less, the TTRS is a quick car..

Logs from my vbox, standard 335bhp car..

0-110mph..










0-140mph..










30-130mph...










0-402m(1/4m)...










0-200km/h (For the Europeans)...










100-200km/h (Popular test in Europe)...










They're only going to get quicker with a tune.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Hey Mitchy, i take me hat off to ya for doing what im doing for the 3.2/3, get a benchmark and take it from there.
Maybe when you finally get your bits and bobs on we should have a shoot out and see what happens..as long as mine holds together.. :lol: 
Maybe you will trade in for a MK1 DSG.. :roll: as it will be faster than MK2 S-Tronic.. [smiley=gossip.gif] 
Steve


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

Mitchy I'm not saying the s-tronic isn't faster than my manual but go an drive one and you'll understand what I mean, forget the tuned GTR on the video the standard car is brutal, maybe you can prove me wrong and give us all a platform to work from so we all buy the s-tronic!


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

V6RUL said:


> Hey Mitchy, i take me hat off to ya for doing what im doing for the 3.2/3, get a benchmark and take it from there.
> Maybe when you finally get your bits and bobs on we should have a shoot out and see what happens..as long as mine holds together.. :lol:
> Maybe you will trade in for a MK1 DSG.. :roll: as it will be faster than MK2 S-Tronic.. [smiley=gossip.gif]
> Steve


 :lol: :lol: :lol:

What revs is your LC set too?

I'm sure my gearbox tune will up it from its 3200, but not sure by how much? 4000?


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Mitchy said:


> V6RUL said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Mitchy, i take me hat off to ya for doing what im doing for the 3.2/3, get a benchmark and take it from there.
> ...


5200 and redline at 7400rpm!!
Steve


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

quote

"If you want a fast car its a TTRS if you want a rocket get a 997 turbo PDK or GTR.In my eyes Mitchy seems to want the performance of the latter, Maybe I'm wrong? "

and
"loads of mods on the TTRS and it isnt close to the GTR in inline performance thats a fact. "

you are very worng

GTR is not even in the same ball park as aTurbo S (once you take out the trick launch control) in straight line speed, and a £800 mod on a TTRS makes it quicker than a Gen 1 GTR, who ever said loads of mods ? it's one £800 remap.

ANd that will 100% be faster than a gen 1 GTR FACT and be very close to the 100-200 8.1 gen 2 GTR I am sure, may be faster.

Again forget about Mitchy look at the figures you are very blinkered with the GTR for some reason, me and Jason in a manual can out drag a Gen 1 GTR already.


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

vwcheung said:


> Mitchy I'm not saying the s-tronic isn't faster than my manual but go an drive one and you'll understand what I mean, forget the tuned GTR on the video the standard car is brutal, maybe you can prove me wrong and give us all a platform to work from so we all buy the s-tronic!


The 530 is a monster for sure, 60 in 2.9 and 100 in 7.1, 1/4m in 11.2, so no I dont think I'll be beating those times. It's an Incredible feat when you look at the 1750kg its hauling along. 485 version though, 60 in more like 3.5 and 100 in mid 8's and I would certainly fancy my chances against that car.

500hp hybrid S-Tronic though and it would take the TT to a new level, serious performance.

It's all good fun mate, If i dont do the testing, someone else will in the future. I suppose I am just wanting a benchmark set in order to see what improvements a remap makes, the numbers are irrelevant, it's the difference I want to take note of.

GTR comes with some serious baggage in respects to justifying the running costs. (Well for me anyway)


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

V6RUL said:


> Mitchy said:
> 
> 
> > V6RUL said:
> ...


I have found something extremely annoying on my OEM S-Tronic map, it seems to be changing up up from 1st to 2nd at 5500rpm [smiley=argue.gif] No idea why, but it is bugging me as the rest of the changes are closer to the red at around 6800-6900, so I'll get the guys to look at this.

5200 is high for launch, ill probably be requesting more like 4500. Have you had any problems launching at that level? Was the box strengthened?


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## sTTranger (Oct 21, 2008)

I will be getting the Mrc tune soon and my mate has a gen1 gtr, not had a chance to have some fun yet, but now im defo looking forward to it


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

sTTranger said:


> I will be getting the Mrc tune soon and my mate has a gen1 gtr, not had a chance to have some fun yet, but now im defo looking forward to it


I thought you were already running a tune mate? Sportec? Have you changed your car or are you still running that very nice sepang car?


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## sTTranger (Oct 21, 2008)

Had issues

Kept throwing up a checksum error, so APS kindly refunded as sportec couldnt fix the problem. Ed actualy recommended the MRC tune before I saw your review.

Spoke to them and with the stage 2 thay can programme it to keep the flap open constantly when the s-button is on which is what ive always wanted


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

Good to to see you back


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

sTTranger said:


> Had issues
> 
> Kept throwing up a checksum error, so APS kindly refunded as sportec couldnt fix the problem. Ed actualy recommended the MRC tune before I saw your review.
> 
> Spoke to them and with the stage 2 thay can programme it to keep the flap open constantly when the s-button is on which is what ive always wanted


I was getting a little pi**ed off with the constant droning on the motorway when it would open at around 75mph regardless if the button was pressed so i asked them to look at it for me. It now operates as it should do with the driver having full control of it, open or closed regardless of speed. You can have it closed and go full throttle and it will open too which is kind of cool.

You wont go far wrong with it mate, there are a couple of others now with MRC tune aswell although they do not post here that regularly.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

What revs is your LC set too?

I'm sure my gearbox tune will up it from its 3200, but not sure by how much? 4000?[/quote]

5200 and redline at 7400rpm!!
Steve[/quote]

I have found something extremely annoying on the OEM S-Tronic map, it changes up from 1st to 2nd at 5500rpm [smiley=argue.gif] No idea why but it is bugging me as the rest of the changes are closer to the red at around 6800-6900

5200 is high for launch, ill probably be requesting more like 4500. Have you had any problems launching at that level? Was the box strengthened?[/quote]

All my gears change up at tootling rpm at 2k and change down at 1650rpm, full tilt changes are 7400 even first.
I have had some changes done to the box ie clutch, increased flow DSG oil pump, SSP red oil, improved cooling, clamping pressures maxed out and load shedding removed.
There are infinite tweaks that can be done to the box but S-Tronic is yet to be cracked properly and i think there may be some tweaks available soon but i think full developement software via OBD will be into next year, for you lot.
I may have to go ALK and to LSDs in the future..Pel on the front or Quaiffe or a Porka 996 rear depending on what the traction feels like.
Rolling starts are easy for me but the launch is the killer.
Standing in the Sprint queue is interesting as you all heat up..funny really..cos my temps are stable with the CC fitted..wonder how long its gonna be before am S-Tronic or just RS goes Air/Water.
Wonder if Jonny has taken this into account as an option..

Ive got a manual flap in me exhaust..but its too scare the old grannies.. :lol: 
Steve


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## sTTranger (Oct 21, 2008)

I have to say that I have never found the rs to be inadequate, probably coz i do not test drive other cars for good reason lol

You guys should really stop watching topgear  . I


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## sTTranger (Oct 21, 2008)

mrdemon said:


> Good to to see you back


cheers mate


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Yes Dave good to see you still popping in.
Its been a quieter place without you..i still giggle at the tunnel noises we were making last year on the Italy trip.
Steve


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

mrdemon said:


> Good to to see you back


@sTTranger,
Indeed, good to see you back...


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## Simon H (Jun 22, 2008)

I have found something extremely annoying on my OEM S-Tronic map, it seems to be changing up up from 1st to 2nd at 5500rpm [smiley=argue.gif] No idea why, but it is bugging me as the rest of the changes are closer to the red at around 6800-6900, so I'll get the guys to look at this.

5200 is high for launch, ill probably be requesting more like 4500. Have you had any problems launching at that level? Was the box strengthened?[/quote]

Mitchy,
In what mode does this upchange take place, S mode ?.


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## sTTranger (Oct 21, 2008)

If you push the gear lever to the left side will it not give you full control of when you change gear??

It did in the TTS :?


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

sTTranger said:


> If you push the gear lever to the left side will it not give you full control of when you change gear??
> 
> It did in the TTS :?


I think "Manual" must mean something different to the Germans :? 
But yes in "Manual" it will never change *up*, only down.


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## TWH (Aug 25, 2010)

The GTR is designed for a totally different purpose than the TT - it's an engineer's wet dream - they were allowed to try out all their toys on one car, with no regard to the style or anything else. It is as you say, a rocket, but personally I think they're just a chavved up box, don't like the look at all.

If you like that kind of thing, then go for it - no doubt they are amazing bits of kit, but then if you're into that, I wouldn't have thought you'd own a TT?


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

TWH said:


> If you like that kind of thing, then go for it - no doubt they are amazing bits of kit, but then if you're into that, I wouldn't have thought you'd own a TT?


Exactly, the point I inferred to earlier


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

Ive own both mk1 TT225 and now the TTRS, Why wounldnt I like that sort of thing? Talk to me if i had a TDI TT where speed and saving saving the planet comes into question, i like a few people do think it the GTR is a great car, however yes of course it has its bad points. 
Just cause this is a TT forum some members seems to think the TT is GOD! and play down experiences they have had in other cars, yes the TT is a very good car, looks good and doesnt cost the earth, but as i explained before some chaps on here are talking figures and performance, this is where the TTRS is a middle weight and not a heavy weight.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

vwcheung said:


> Ive own both mk1 TT225 and now the TTRS, Why wounldnt I like that sort of thing? Talk to me if i had a TDI TT where speed and saving saving the planet comes into question, i like a few people do think it the GTR is a great car, however yes of course it has its bad points.
> Just cause this is a TT forum some members seems to think the TT is GOD! and play down experiences they have had in other cars, yes the TT is a very good car, looks good and doesnt cost the earth, but as i explained before some chaps on here are talking figures and performance, this is where the TTRS is a middle weight and not a heavy weight.


I agree but i think the RS is at the top of the middle weight class and peeps can see the heavy weight class in front of them..but to leap from one to the other can be cost prohibative.
Steve


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

quote

2Just cause this is a TT forum some members seems to think the TT is GOD! and play down experiences they have had in other cars, yes the TT is a very good car, looks good and doesnt cost the earth, but as i explained before some chaps on here are talking figures and performance, this is where the TTRS is a middle weight and not a heavy weight. "

I am not brand loyal at all had 40+ cars could not care a toss about owning a Audi.

But yes we are talking figures and the GTR is slower  than a mapped TTRS 

I would say the TTRS is middle weight yes, who wants a 1800kg car these days :wink: 
(when has any one called a performace car heavey weight any way ?)

How you can put a GTR together with a 120k 911turbo S which would leave it for dead on the straight I have no idea where you are coming from.
6.8 100-200 v 8.7 and 8.1 with the GTR it's not even close to turbo S performace.
either you have a badly tuned slow TTRS or you have GTR blinkers on.
The only person thinking a car is GOD is you lol with the GTR 30% faster bollocks.


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

mrdemon said:


> quote
> 
> 2Just cause this is a TT forum some members seems to think the TT is GOD! and play down experiences they have had in other cars, yes the TT is a very good car, looks good and doesnt cost the earth, but as i explained before some chaps on here are talking figures and performance, this is where the TTRS is a middle weight and not a heavy weight. "
> 
> ...


Could it perhaps be that the OP hasnt quite yet figured out how to extract the best from the TTRS, whilst the playstation GTR could make even my great great granny look and feel like a driving god hence the OP's reaction

Not meaning to be rude of anything, just an observation

But like you say the GTR gets left for dead by a turbo S, hell theres enough video evidence on youtube of Gen 2 911 turbos vs GTRs.


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

sTTranger said:


> Had issues
> 
> Kept throwing up a checksum error, so APS kindly refunded as sportec couldnt fix the problem. Ed actualy recommended the MRC tune before I saw your review.
> 
> Spoke to them and with the stage 2 thay can programme it to keep the flap open constantly when the s-button is on which is what ive always wanted


Get a move on dave so we can compare the mrc tune to my revo tune


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

mrdemon said:


> quote
> 
> 2Just cause this is a TT forum some members seems to think the TT is GOD! and play down experiences they have had in other cars, yes the TT is a very good car, looks good and doesnt cost the earth, but as i explained before some chaps on here are talking figures and performance, this is where the TTRS is a middle weight and not a heavy weight. "
> 
> ...


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

TTRS_500 said:


> mrdemon said:
> 
> 
> > quote
> ...


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

vwcheung said:


> How you can put a GTR together with a 120k 911turbo S which would leave it for dead on the straight I have no idea where you are coming from.
> Mate are you watching the vids of the 9FF 911's ? Yes 1200 hp against a 750 hp jap car really competitive!
> Drive a GTR or race one then come and talk to me


Ive already said that ive had runs against a GTR, there is also video evidence of a 500hp 996 turbo beating the GTR, which people from the forums have seen at Inters. The porka is doing the same 1/4 times as the modded TTRS.

Watch this video.

Stock 997 turbo pdk kicking a HKS tuned GTRs ass.






And again another 997 tubo pdk absolutely raping a GTR, so now you can see why the turbo S version is so quick with more power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee6T-TIz ... ature=fvwp


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

People have they own views, if he thinks I am a moron and a GTR is 30% faster than a chipped TTRS that what he thinks.

If he also thinks a GTR can match a 997 Turbo S then again that what he thinks.

He has seen the vids, we have posted vbox figures not a lot more we can do.

I wish it was 30% faster though, I would buy one. my 30-130 mph time is 12.5 seconds

that would put the GTR 30-130 at 8.75 seconds and be the best value car every made, where do i sign :lol:

and to end your final quote which is a vast pie in the sky quote :lol:

"Mate are you watching the vids of the 9FF 911's ? Yes 1200 hp against a 750 hp jap car really competitive!
Drive a GTR or race one then come and talk to me "

just tells me you have no idea about cars what so ever or the 911 range.
Go look up a stock 997.2 Turbo S performance come back and then say sorry lol.


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

mrdemon said:


> People have they own views, if he thinks I am a moron and a GTR is 30% faster than a chipped TTRS that what he thinks.
> 
> If he also thinks a GTR can match a 997 Turbo S then again that what he thinks.
> 
> ...


i wasnt the one comparing the gtr to a 911, other including you were. isnt there around 30% difference between at stage 1 TTRS 410 bhp and GTR 530 bhp? or are my maths poor, or maybe even im running my RS on prune juice so the difference when i drove the cars back to back was astonishing :roll:


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

mrdemon said:


> People have they own views, if he thinks I am a moron and a GTR is 30% faster than a chipped TTRS that what he thinks.
> 
> If he also thinks a GTR can match a 997 Turbo S then again that what he thinks.
> 
> ...


Yes sorry ive owned a boxster and cayenne so dont know anything about porsches  even test drive the GT3 gen 1 last year and was gonna buy one before the RS


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

you said a heavy weight is a GTR or a 911 turbo

when my TTRS is faster than a gen 1 911 turbo ?

here are the gtr 30-130 times at the last event with the BHP next to them not many doing 8.7 seconds 

note the stock BHP times


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

quote
" isnt there around 30% difference between at stage 1 TTRS 410 bhp and GTR 530 bhp? or are my maths poor,"

your back pedding now :?

your quote was not about BHP but was this
" I normally dont like posts that have numbers because on the road it doesnt really mean alot but i reckon that car is a good 30% quicker than mine. "

you think it's 30% faster than yours not that is has 30% more BHP.


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

last one then I have work to do

"Yes sorry ive owned a boxster and cayenne so dont know anything about porsches "

I stated you don't seem the know the 911 range, just to help you a boxster and cayenne is not in that range 

Have you looked up a 997.2 Turbo S yet, you will wet your pants if you thought the GTR was fast :lol:


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## blueboy (Sep 6, 2010)

not to be one who likes to get involved in figures but isn,t the point of buying a car to buy something that you like and appreciate.Having owned some pretty fast cars in the past I,m still trying to discover the devastating feeling everyone seems to achieve by reaching 0 - 60 mph in 0.5 secs quicker in one car than another.The pleasure that people achieve on reading a digital readout seems totally alien to me when compared to driving a car I like whether it,s it,s at a fast rate of knots or nipping to work. I,m sure the nissan is a pretty fine car as is the rs and the 911 but is everybody now buying cars just for the sake of performance figures?If anybody finds a place other than Silverstone to achieve their maximum performance figures on a daily basis let me know and i,ll change my route to work.


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

mrdemon said:


> last one then I have work to do
> 
> "Yes sorry ive owned a boxster and cayenne so dont know anything about porsches "
> 
> ...


Yes it's on the cards , they have one at Colchester which I'll have a go in soon. Yes I do agree with you on alot of your points but I still don't think the RS is up there on performance alone.


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

vwcheung said:


> i wasnt the one comparing the gtr to a 911, other including you were. isnt there around 30% difference between at stage 1 TTRS 410 bhp and GTR 530 bhp? or are my maths poor, or maybe even im running my RS on prune juice so the difference when i drove the cars back to back was astonishing :roll:


The power difference is negated by the GTR being a fat pig of a car at 1750kg. Comeon you know about power to weight ratio!


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## JamesRS (Apr 26, 2011)

I dont like to get involved in these debates, but let me throw some real life experience on the matter.

I have a Revo TTRS - around 400bhp, This is coming from a 996 Turbo (Non X50) 54 plate car.

I have some driving buddies, one with a 996 Turbo (my old car infact) another with a GTR.

A few months ago, we drove down to Brussells for a long weekend, all one up, and a holdall.

The 911 Turbo was quicker in every gear than my car, marginally - but it was quicker. This is in all gears, for about 3-400 miles of "playing". At no time did I feel inadequate, my car is a much nicer place to be, and I think the 996 looks dated. But I accept that a standard non X50 turbo is quicker than a mildly tuned TTRS, I would imagine an X50 to be even faster.

Now on to the GTR, I can't quote a percentage to how much it is quicker, but by eck, it just pulled away, and away, and away, in any gear at any speed. This is a 59 plate uk car, completely standard. Even on the traffic light GP, without him using launch control, He just left me.

I am amazed if anyone thinks a mildly modded TT RS is as quick as a GTR, it is just not true.

But what we must remember is that our cars are much cheaper, and lets face it - a 996 Turbo is no slouch, and to have a car that is less than a few years old, ultra reliable, ultra comfortable, and lots of toys, that is nearly as fast as a 911 turbo. That is no bad thing.


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

You need to take your car back to the revo dealer if you cannot even beat a stock 996 turbo. Sounds to me like you are running stock boost. I have two friends with 996 turbos. Stock vs stock the porka is a bit faster. Rs mapped vs stock and the porka gets destroyed. Rs mapped vs mapped 996 and they are neck and neck till indicated 190.

Stock gtr vs mapped 996 and mapped rs sees the gtr left in last place. Where are you based?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

V6RUL said:


> R80RTT said:
> 
> 
> > V6RUL said:
> ...


I'm hoping it's Monday 1st August as that's what i've got in the diary & assuming it is then i'm 95% going.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

mrdemon said:


> that GTR at Vmax which did 197 had 750BHP btw
> 
> As for gen 2 over gen 1 it cannot be that much faster they spent more time on driver feel not a power increase.
> it's still not a very fast car when you look at a 997 turbo S gen 2 :lol:
> ...


The one in the video isn't mine although he was at the same event being referenced, but you're correct as that one has the 750R kit. His best speed was either 196 or 197mph.

Mine is circa 620/630BHP & my best speed was 197mph


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

pa06has said:


> Interesting read.......
> 
> When I first looked at purchasing a new car it were between two; GTR and the TTRS; Yes you are correct that nothing would compare to the GTR; I am fortunate to live quite close to the main importer of the GTR - Middlehurst and often pop down to see whats in. When i spoke to Andy down there I mentioned that I was interested in the two cars which roughly worked out at the same cost my TTRS 10 plate brand new and the GTR I was looking at priced at 47K!
> 
> ...


Couple of interesting points, but a few mistakes also.

Middlehurst's are one of around 10 HPC's (High Performance Centres) in the UK. They don't import R35's as the cars they sell & i own one of are called EDM's & thus are European Spec cars specifically for the UK. The R35 is the only GT-R (or Skyline in old money) that has been sold in the UK. Previous R's were grey or parallel imports into the UK & yes, Middlehurst were the first to bring them in & service them.

Your costs are a little out also. Services are every 6mths or 6000 miles, however they stage at roughly £300/£600/£900 for the 6/12/18 & then the cycle returns to the £300 service. A couple of the reputable Indi's can provide the same Warranty Friendly servicing for about 40% less if you want to save a little cash.

My car is a MY10 & has been lightly modified so is producing circa 625bhp. This has given rise to no issues regarding warranty, although tbh i've not had to make any mechanical claims as the car to date has been rock solid, however it did need a new Multi Function Display (full sat-nav & audio module) a couple of months back.

Tyres i've not had to replace yet, but £1800 if anyones daft enough to pay a dealer to supply/fit is about right. Most with common sense will buy online from the usual sources & as such you're looking at around £300 per corner, but let's not confuse GT-R tyres with TTRS tyres as the GT-R wheels are bigger, the GT-R tyres are bigger & the OEM rubber are runflats so you'd ex[ect them to cost more.

Insurance aint cheap but it's a £60K motor (that's what mine was new last Oct), however my premiums are less than £1000 which i feel is acceptable for such a vehicle.

The TTRS is a fantastic car & i'm all over the Audi brand as you can see from my Signature below, however nothing in the current Audi line up excited me in the same way the GT-R does & virtually nothing can match it's pace/handling on the road or the track.

As the O/P made reference to, the car that Top Gear featured last Sunday was a virtually stock MY11 car (530bhp) & that ran the Top Gear track quicker than anything this side of £1/4M, so let's not kid ourselves what the car is capable of. As a side note it's the exact same car i was chatting to Andy Middlehurst in last Saturday at Cholmondley Pageant of Power as he was running the car on the sprint track.

I ran mine at Cadwell Park on Wednesday & i at some point over took virtually every car there & nothing came past or even close to passing me. Closest rivals were a well sorted 997 GT3RS, a couple of race prepared VXR's on slicks & a Litchfield (can't recall the model but it had a Busa engine in it).


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

TTRS_500 said:


> vwcheung said:
> 
> 
> > i wasnt the one comparing the gtr to a 911, other including you were. isnt there around 30% difference between at stage 1 TTRS 410 bhp and GTR 530 bhp? or are my maths poor, or maybe even im running my RS on prune juice so the difference when i drove the cars back to back was astonishing :roll:
> ...


That's funny. Agreed the GT-R is heavier, but it's engineered better than any of it's rivals & thus cars with more power & less weight can't match the GT-R. Just Google away for many examples [smiley=book2.gif]


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## moncler1 (Sep 28, 2008)

Like the reasoned reply Paul, good to hear from an owner of a GTR.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

TTRS_500 said:


> You need to take your car back to the revo dealer if you cannot even beat a stock 996 turbo. Sounds to me like you are running stock boost. I have two friends with 996 turbos. Stock vs stock the porka is a bit faster. Rs mapped vs stock and the porka gets destroyed. Rs mapped vs mapped 996 and they are neck and neck till indicated 190.
> 
> Stock gtr vs mapped 996 and mapped rs sees the gtr left in last place. Where are you based?


Sorry i lied, your post above is even funnier than the previous one i said was funny. Clicky linky below & stop spouting rubbish.

http://www.vmax200.com/vmax-overboost.php


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## conneem (Nov 4, 2006)

W7 PMC said:


> Sorry i lied, your post above is even funnier than the previous one i said was funny. Clicky linky below & stop spouting rubbish.
> 
> http://www.vmax200.com/vmax-overboost.php


I think indicated is the important word in his post, 190 indicated could be up to 10% out, or maybe he is taking about km/h :lol:

Vmax anyway comes down to peak power (& where it is in the rev range), gearing and aerodynamics, cars with very different top speeds can have quite similar acceleration over certain ranges. 

For example from SportAuto an R8 will do 301km/h (188mph) butito get from 100-200km/h it takes 12.8s, also from SportAuto a manual standard TTRS will get from 100-200km/h in 12.9s but get nowhere near that top speed.


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## moncler1 (Sep 28, 2008)

I take it back.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

conneem said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry i lied, your post above is even funnier than the previous one i said was funny. Clicky linky below & stop spouting rubbish.
> ...


You've quoted my post but made reference to TTRS_500's comment so i'm not sure what point you're trying to make??

The VMAX speeds are timing beam verified so those listed in the link are NOT indicated but actual.

Read the list & you'll see what Pork Turbos (modified & stock) achieve, as well as TTRS (modified & stock) & GT-R (modified & stock), nothing indicated about any of the speeds.

Weight too has a big part to play, but as you'll already no doubt be aware the fat GT-R has the lowest .cd of pretty much any car & thus removes a big chunk of any weight disadvantage.


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

197mph is impressive fella, well done, but it's bhp that got you there and bhp is always going to win in a vmax event.

A TTRS is not troubled by a stock 996 turbo.

What are you doing 60,100,quarter,30-130 in etc, that's where a TTRS is going to compete with higher powered cars, certainly not top end as in vmax. Just look at say RS6 vs TTRS, an RS6 will murder it top end so when going off vmax results you're only talking brute force top end.

GTR is impressive because it has a fantastic auto transmission, had it come with a normal manual box it wouldn't have been so impressive so we have to compare apples and apples ;-) TTRS also comes with an auto but so far none have been tuned as of yet.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

I never see the point of buying a car and trying to push it way beyond it's limit, it's always cheaper and easier to buy the correct car in the first place.


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

Also, I see a GTR hit 182mph, I presume standard? A TTRS with the same power output (490) recorded 186mph,it's missing from that result file though.


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

I don't think there was a standard GTR at Vmax , I asked as I wanted to go up v one.

They are mazing cars, we all know that but as mitchy said a Lot is to do with launch and that trick gear box.
And we don't have any times from a stage 1 TTRS with S-tronic yet, but I put money on it beating a stock GTR to normal speeds.

Vmax is fun but all about BHP the Monaro and 911's with mega BHP were the cheaper cars doing 200MPh, but where can you do that ?
The TTRS runs out of puff at 150mph just because the lack of BHP but vmax is the only place to find that out.

The 750BHp GTR I went up with totally left me for dead, but I expected it too.

I would guess at 5mpg or less though doing the run lol.

The Turbo S was not at the last one, but it was at the one before and even 750BHp GTR had trouble with the stock 911 :lol:

It all depends what you are talking about with modded cars or not, but take them all at stock and the TTRS will come last, but the GTR will be left wondering where the Turbo S went also.

Tune a GTR and it will be mind blowing as seen from my vid, but I know 3 owners with GTR's and all are scared to tune it, I know 10 TTRS owners and all have tuned them.

The Turbo S as I have said before posts 6.8 seconds to 100mph and that's just hyper car fast and in another league.


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## Simon H (Jun 22, 2008)

W7 PMC said:


> pa06has said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting read.......
> ...


Paul,
I could be wrong here, but i think i remember you saying, that the Top gear GT-R, from last week, was slightly tweaked. Possibly a NISMO ECU ?, regards, SIMON.


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## moncler1 (Sep 28, 2008)

Probably no more that Ferrari's sent out for 'tests'?... I see even one of the staffers at Autocar admitted as much the other day.


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

W7 PMC said:


> TTRS_500 said:
> 
> 
> > You need to take your car back to the revo dealer if you cannot even beat a stock 996 turbo. Sounds to me like you are running stock boost. I have two friends with 996 turbos. Stock vs stock the porka is a bit faster. Rs mapped vs stock and the porka gets destroyed. Rs mapped vs mapped 996 and they are neck and neck till indicated 190.
> ...


funny? yes I pi**ed myself [smiley=argue.gif]


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

why is that post funny ?

Vmax is a strange event for, yes you guess it vmax, all the cars there are tuned to f4ck knows what lol

It's pointless even talking about vmax unless you have 600Bhp +

one of the 996 Turbo's can match Veyron speeds.

I don't see what this has to do with anything we are all talkingabout.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Mitchy said:


> Also, I see a GTR hit 182mph, I presume standard? A TTRS with the same power output (490) recorded 186mph,it's missing from that result file though.


Would take too long to explain in detail, but the short version is that stock GT-R was backing off due to worries about fueling as David Yu (EVO) found a possible issue at very high speeds on full throttle with fuel. My car & the 750R both have uprated Injectors (double capacity) & as such kept pushing until we ran out of runway.

What was the TTRS Revo Stage 2 putting out?

I'd be shocked if a stock TTRS could even get a stock 996 Turbo to perspire. Would be happily proved wrong but my experiences on road & track would suggest otherwise.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

mrdemon said:


> I don't think there was a standard GTR at Vmax , I asked as I wanted to go up v one.
> 
> They are mazing cars, we all know that but as mitchy said a Lot is to do with launch and that trick gear box.
> And we don't have any times from a stage 1 TTRS with S-tronic yet, but I put money on it beating a stock GTR to normal speeds.
> ...


I'm sorry, but are you for real?

You honestly believe a Stage 1 TTRS could beat a stock GT-R? You need to lay off the pills my friend.

Me suggests to make things easy for you have another look at last Sunday's Top Gear & then conclude with a valid argument.

To balance it up a little, i'd gladly take a 997 Turbo S if i had £123K burning a hole in my pocket, however i don't & given my car was less than half the price i'd suggest i got the cheaper deal, especially as i think you'll find it's a little quicker so check the link below & tell me who'd be looking where who went??

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

mrdemon said:


> why is that post funny ?
> 
> Vmax is a strange event for, yes you guess it vmax, all the cars there are tuned to f4ck knows what lol
> 
> ...


No they're not. I'd say half the cars are stock & half are tuned but most are well below 600bhp with only a small number above that figure.


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

A remapped TTRS (S-tronic) with only 410-420bhp will definitely out accelerate a 485ps GTR, I would put money on it.

It will be quicker off the line, to 60, to 100, 1/4m, will post a quicker 30-130, 1million percent.

I don't think it would be too far off the MY12 car either, low 3 to 60 and sub 8 to the ton.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Simon H said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > pa06has said:
> ...


It appears (according to reports) that the car concerned (T4 GTR) was in total stock trim for Top Gear, although the suspension had been set up for track use. According to Andy M, he felt the car that he drove (same one) was quicker than normal when he ran on the sprint track at Pageant Of Power & his best guess was it had a Nismo ECU on board. That said, according to Nismo this ECU does not provide any power gains but does alter the gearing shift points (as well as a few other goodies).

The gap between both appearances of the car would have been at least 2 weeks & Andy didn't prep the car for Cholmondley so changes to the car could have taken place.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Mitchy said:


> A remapped TTRS (S-tronic) with only 410-420bhp will definitely out accelerate a 485ps GTR, I would put money on it.
> 
> It will be quicker off the line, to 60, to 100, 1/4m, will post a quicker 30-130, 1million percent.
> 
> I don't think it would be too far off the MY12 car either, low 3 to 60 and sub 8 to the ton.


Let me know when you're next further South & i'll gladly take that bet :lol:

You must have a computer as you're on this Forum. Why not try our good friend Google for the performance metrics you refer to & then prove me wrong.


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

W7 PMC said:


> Mitchy said:
> 
> 
> > A remapped TTRS (S-tronic) with only 410-420bhp will definitely out accelerate a 485ps GTR, I would put money on it.
> ...


Standard car with 335bhp,

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223914

Now, tell me I'm wrong ;-)

I'm hitting 60 and 100 in very similar times in a STANDARD car, add the tune and it's low 3 and sub 8 for sure. Quicker than a GTR.

GTR is a heavyweight literally, I am 300kg lighter, have launch control and instant shift gearbox.

You're in for a shock when more of these start getting a tune. Look at the last MLR 30-130 event, the standard cars were doing it in 12.8-13.6 secs, certainly within range of the TTRS.


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

Paul have you driven the 2011 model GTR? and if so what difference is it to yours and what chances does a Mitchy have in straight line?


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

W7 PMC said:


> Mitchy said:
> 
> 
> > A remapped TTRS (S-tronic) with only 410-420bhp will definitely out accelerate a 485ps GTR, I would put money on it.
> ...


I will bet Mitchy will post a faster 0-100mph time than a 485BHp GTR
£50


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

W7 PMC said:


> mrdemon said:
> 
> 
> > why is that post funny ?
> ...


1/2 the cars were stock :lol:


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

quote
"I'm sorry, but are you for real?"

yes I have also bet you £50 if you will take the bet as above 

Now you are quoting Ring times ?
NO one has talked about ring times, we have all been talking straight line speed.

If you think a GTR is quicker than a Turbo S in a straight line you are the one on the pills "my friend" !!!!

As for ring times Porsche built the GT2 RS to beat the GTR ring time and it did by quite a way.
But lets not get off topic


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Ive seen Pauls car in action and i must say, its very very fast and yes its modded but i think even a stock GTR would be able to compete with a Stage 1 or 2 TTRS.
The TTRS S-Tronic has no chance of finding out whats possible cos, who is going to mess with the protection factors and shove a decent clutch in it..cos thats the only way to get the most out of the box.
Unless Mitchy or another brave soul bites the bullit and shells out 3 to 4k on box upgrades its all left to the mk1 DSG boys to push the boundries.
Try and remember the price brackets these motors come in, you cant have a GT supercar for pennies..but i suppose its nice to try.
Steve


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

Shhh lets not talk about the mk1v6 TT at vmax :?


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

mrdemon said:


> Shhh lets not talk about the mk1v6 TT at vmax :?


Thats my testing ground..get knocked down and come back better.. :roll: 
R & D is not cheap but i guess some peeps want to stand on the sidelines.
Steve


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## Simon H (Jun 22, 2008)

V6RUL said:


> Ive seen Pauls car in action and i must say, its very very fast and yes its modded but i think even a stock GTR would be able to compete with a Stage 1 or 2 TTRS.
> The TTRS S-Tronic has no chance of finding out whats possible cos, who is going to mess with the protection factors and shove a decent clutch in it..cos thats the only way to get the most out of the box.
> Unless Mitchy or another brave soul bites the bullit and shells out 3 to 4k on box upgrades its all left to the mk1 DSG boys to push the boundries.
> Try and remember the price brackets these motors come in, you cant have a GT supercar for pennies..but i suppose its nice to try.
> Steve


Steve,
Im sure a couple of chaps from here, have TTSs with S-Tronic boxes that have had good results with remaps, surely, they wont be that much different than the RSs gearbox ? . This is slightly disapointing, as i had it in my head when buying the RS, that it would be remapped, and didnt forsee the troubles that seem to have come to light. Maybe it will all come right in the end ?, regards, Simon.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

The TTs comes with 350nm and the RS with 450nm.
There are some room for improvements without exceeding the electronic limits of the box but at the end of the day its the box that is the bottleneck cos it doesnt matter if you have 500lb/ft available from the engine, its the box that decides how much is released.
Once the crack has been done, then we will see some fast S-Tronics..if peeps care to push the boundries.
I believe Mitchy may be getting something from MRC, but i will be very surprised if there is a full OBD software upgrade to customer spec..but we will see next week.
Once a full crack is available i wonder who is going to be the first to fit some SSP clutches [kevlar are too aggressive, stick with the 500+] and BT......
Steve


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## conneem (Nov 4, 2006)

V6RUL said:


> The TTs comes with 350nm and the RS with 450nm.
> There are some room for improvements without exceeding the electronic limits of the box but at the end of the day its the box that is the bottleneck cos it doesnt matter if you have 500lb/ft available from the engine, its the box that decides how much is released.
> Once the crack has been done, then we will see some fast S-Tronics..if peeps care to push the boundries.
> I believe Mitchy may be getting something from MRC, but i will be very surprised if there is a full OBD software upgrade to customer spec..but we will see next week.
> ...


The TTRS/RS3 7 speed S-Tronic is rated for 600NM (and limited to 650NM I think) 

On the TTS box it is 450NM afaik.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

650nm is about 480lb/ft, but i guess the magic number is 500bhp and torque doesn't matter but the closer they get to the torque figure max the load shedding will become noticeable and followed by clutch wear. Also I think that if the boost is too aggresive and the torque curve parameters are exceeded then shedding occurs again. Progressive will be more effective in the end.
Only the manual boys can get away with aggressive boost as the clutch isn't limited by electronics.
Steve


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

I don't get the quest for more power, I am more than happy with the power and performance of my car for the road.
If anything am thinking of buying a slower car with a bit more driver involvment in it.

964 circa 250BHp and some trick shocks on it will do me and get back to doing a few track days.

I cannot think of enything worse than going to Santa POD chasing a 1/10th , but that's just me. :lol:


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

Sorry but all RSs and GT-Rs alike are inadequate, I want mine to do this :lol:


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

some figures for Import Racings GTR tested in Sportauto,so most probably fuelled two up.
590ps ,780 Nm
0-100 km/h = 3.3 secs
0-160 km/h = 6.8 secs
0-200 Km/h = 10.2 secs
top speed 323 Km/h
should help the discussion along


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## davelincs (Jan 1, 2010)

powerplay said:


> Sorry but all RSs and GT-Rs alike are inadequate, I want mine to do this :lol:


That would go down very well whilst waiting for the traffic lights to turn to green


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

davelincs said:


> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry but all RSs and GT-Rs alike are inadequate, I want mine to do this :lol:
> ...


Even my launch control doesn't take that long to set up..
Steve


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

Guy who posted than vid owns a GTR, says it all


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## TWH (Aug 25, 2010)

vwcheung said:


> Ive own both mk1 TT225 and now the TTRS, Why wounldnt I like that sort of thing? Talk to me if i had a TDI TT where speed and saving saving the planet comes into question, i like a few people do think it the GTR is a great car, however yes of course it has its bad points.
> Just cause this is a TT forum some members seems to think the TT is GOD! and play down experiences they have had in other cars, yes the TT is a very good car, looks good and doesnt cost the earth, but as i explained before some chaps on here are talking figures and performance, this is where the TTRS is a middle weight and not a heavy weight.


Sadly you entirely missed my point.

I don't think the TT is god, far from it - I would always opt for a B5 RS4 in those stakes 

But back to my point - the reasons for buying a TT (be it S or RS, or indeed any other), is that it's a great looking car that's very well put together with top quality. The interior is a lovely place to be, and it's a quick fun car that can also happily be used day to day.

The reasons for buying a GTR are that you want a supercar at a more reasonable* price. You're looking for something that is incredibly focussed and will ensure that you get MAX performance out of every ounce of it. The interior is still just a Nissan interior, and it's not really a day to day car.

So the two are completely different, made for different markets. And if you can afford to run both for different occasions, then you might as well pool the cash and buy a 911 Turbo as it beats both hands down!


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

Come on girls...you can't stop now...I was enjoying this 'thread'...ohh the humour with all this [smiley=argue.gif] ... :roll:

"Mine is faster..."
"No, mine is faster..."
"No, no...mine is faster..."
"No, no, no...mine is faster..."
"No, no, no, no...mine is definitely faster..."
"No, no, no, no, no...mine is most definitely faster...the mag journos said that...!"
"No, no, no, no, no, no...mine is infact the fastest car in the whole wide world...THAT IS A FACT!"

honestly!... :lol:

This may be more appropiate I think...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryb9Xs94 ... =related...
or maybe this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iftv_CW- ... =related...:lol:


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

Or maybe:


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

The only thing this thread has proved is that alot of people dont understand cars, dont understand tuning, and are blinkered by GTR hype even though the porka destroys it in any and every way.

Yes the porka is over a 100k, but it costs porsche nowhere near that amount to build, they just charge that much because they can. Porsche are the most profitable car company per car sale, by a huge margin, whilst nissan where subsidising the costs of the GTR in some markets.

The GTR is good, it makes mediocre drivers look good, and is stupid quick once tuned, but it is and always will be a nissan to 99% of the population who dont give a toss about cars. The minute you have to explain why your car is great its no longer cool, and well the GTR fits in that box :lol:


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

mrdemon said:


> Guy who posted than vid owns a GTR, says it all


Who is my mate. BooYaaaa. Before the GTR he had a gallardo (slower than the TT) a ferrari 360 (really slow) and some mental big turbo built engine evo which made my TT look like it wasnt trying....until it blew up :lol:


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## moncler1 (Sep 28, 2008)

You da man Pov!!


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

moncler1 said:


> You da man Pov!!


dun no.

High five homie :lol:


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## moncler1 (Sep 28, 2008)

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

TTRS_500 said:


> The only thing this thread has proved is that alot of people dont understand cars, dont understand tuning, and are blinkered by GTR hype even though the porka destroys it in any and every way.
> 
> Yes the porka is over a 100k, but it costs porsche nowhere near that amount to build, they just charge that much because they can. Porsche are the most profitable car company per car sale, by a huge margin, whilst nissan where subsidising the costs of the GTR in some markets.
> 
> The GTR is good, it makes mediocre drivers look good, and is stupid quick once tuned, but it is and always will be a nissan to 99% of the population who dont give a toss about cars. The minute you have to explain why your car is great its no longer cool, and well the GTR fits in that box :lol:


You're right, this thread does indeed prove you don't understand cars or tuning (or at least you come across as though you don't).

Why not do us all a favour & re-read your posts in this thread alone & tell me how many times your arguments & points change?

Look at my previous car list & tell me how many Audi's you see in that list? If the best you can do is "it is & always will be a Nissan" then how stupid does that make you look?

I've had more positive attention in my Nissan than i've ever had in all my other cars combined.


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

W7 PMC said:


> TTRS_500 said:
> 
> 
> > The only thing this thread has proved is that alot of people dont understand cars, dont understand tuning, and are blinkered by GTR hype even though the porka destroys it in any and every way.
> ...


thats very nice


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

mrdemon said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > mrdemon said:
> ...


Shall we count them then my friend? I've been to numerous VMAX's with various cars & although the %age may alter a little from event to event, roughly half the cars are stock.

What i didn't clarify & perhaps where you're getting a little confused is that more of the higher top speed cars (over 180mph) will indeed have had at least some level of modification. Of the list i linked to yesterday at least 24 of the cars i know of are not modified so given 49 are listed then that's not far off 50%.


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

I think Nissan lost the plot when they increased the asking price to £70k before options.

Yes, it is just a Nissan, a very fast, loud Nissan. The TT gets it hard for people that swing the other way but the stereotypical view of a GTR driver is hardly any better. You know, thug, bald head, tattoos and an IQ in single digits.

No one is denying that it is an extremely fast car but for the money and running costs that come with it, there are cheaper and better buys.

Everyone always says how much of a performance bargain the GTR is at £60-£70k, I think the little TTRS at £45k is a better bargain, bang per buck ;-) For quite a few reasons actually.

Vmax as has already been said is pointless, no one in their right mind in the UK will bury the loud pedal that far, a guy got 3mths jail for 156mph in his E46 M3 so forget big bhp, it's pointless.

Lots of willy waving as always, there always is with fast cars, we dont buy them to be slow do we?

GTR is a monster no denying, would still rather be driving my TT though ;-)


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Mitchy said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Mitchy said:
> ...


I ran a 2.94 to 62mph via my Cobb Datalog the other day, without Launch Control (the GT-R has launch control too). If genuine, they're pretty good times given that's nearly a second quicker than Audi quote :lol:

But as already said, my car has been modified so i guess i can only really quote the 3.3's from when the car was stock.

I also own an Audi with S-Tronic & i'd like to point out that it's far from an instant shift gearbox & not even in the same game as the GT-R's transmission.

Still i know exactly what a GT-R can do & can quote times/speeds all day long as the totally stock car is quoted as 3.5 to 62mph, under 8 secs to 100mph & the 1/4 mile in 11 sec. I'm sure a TTRS will once again show up at VMAX so i'll be sure to check them out more closely & hope to get a few head to head runs set up.


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

Audi quote 0-62 in 4.3, 0-60 in 4.1. Quite a few tests including my own have shown more realistic 3.6-3.7 to sixty so 4-5 tenths quicker, not a second as you say.

Vmax is not a TTRS event, the MLR 30-130 is however. Look at the last event, numerous standard GTRs ranging from 12.8 to 13.5. This is in the ballpark of a chip tuned TT, surely you can see that? I've just posted a 12.9 completely standard on a brand new tight engine.

Your car is a tuned example, way beyond the reach of a TTRS with just a software tune so there's no point in me waffling that it's going to beat your car, not a hope in hell, however, standard 485, yep, no probs.

S-tronic takes 0.008sec to change gear so less than a hundredth of a second, I would say that's pretty much instant shift. Never the less I'll post a sub 8 sec 100 no probs with just a simple software tune. I thought the earlier GTRs voided warranties with using LC?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Mitchy said:


> I think Nissan lost the plot when they increased the asking price to £70k before options.
> 
> Yes, it is just a Nissan, a very fast, loud Nissan. The TT gets it hard for people that swing the other way but the stereotypical view of a GTR driver is hardly any better. You know, thug, bald head, tattoos and an IQ in single digits.
> 
> ...


If i read the above post from bottom to top It started me thinking maybe the tales i hear about you are not all bad & then i read your stereotype of a GT-R owner & thought nope, they're all true & you really are as stupid & ignorant as people tell me you are :lol:

Im so tempted to link this thread back the the GTROC, with the emphasis on your stereotype "the stereotypical view of a GTR driver is hardly any better. You know, thug, bald head, tattoos and an IQ in single digits". That is by far the funniest post i've ever read of yours :lol: . I bet your TT buddies are so proud of you 

The owners i know on the GTROC are in the main over 30 (many over 40), if bald then it's through hair loss not shaving & if they have single digit IQ's then being able to afford a car that even the oldest would set them back over £40K must mean alot of employers now pay thick people very well indeed.

Lastly as this is now getting a tad boring, the TTRS is great value & given i've owned both the RS4 & RS6, i can vouch for how good the RS brand is, however to spec one up to GT-R levels i'd guess you're actually looking at over £50K & let's be honest, at best a very highly tuned TTRS (how much would the mods cost?) may keep with a stock GT-R in a straight line up to 60 or even at a push 100, but in what world do we all drive in straight lines?

Almost forgot, i do agree with one point you made, as do many GT-R owners & that's the price for the MY11 car as it should not have increased to £70K. It is a better car than the MY10, but not £10K.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Mitchy said:


> Audi quote 0-62 in 4.3, 0-60 in 4.1. Quite a few tests including my own have shown more realistic 3.6-3.7 to sixty so 4-5 tenths quicker, not a second as you say.
> 
> Vmax is not a TTRS event, the MLR 30-130 is however. Look at the last event, numerous standard GTRs ranging from 12.8 to 13.5. This is in the ballpark of a chip tuned TT, surely you can see that? I've just posted a 12.9 completely standard on a brand new tight engine.
> 
> ...


I read 0-60 in 4.3 from Audi (& elsewhere) & you said 3.6 for yours, however i'll agree that's .7. Maybe i should datalog a few 30-130 runs in my car & see what i get. I wasn't at the event to which you refer so can't comment but i'd argue VMAX is an event for TTRS's (quite a few at the last one) & i can swing it to get plenty of head to head runs which will clearly demonstrate speeds in a straight line, given this to you is the best measure of a cars performance :lol:

Yet again, I HAVE a 7 Speed S-Tronic Audi so i know how they work & how quick they change.

Nearly forgot, launching a GT-R has never voided any warranties in the UK, however i believe a couple of cases existed in the US. This then lead to software updates being released by Nissan to alter launch & shift points as LC1 was deamed to be a tad too hard. The MY10 (mine) has LC2 & i believe the MY11 (newest model that TG tested last week) has LC3.


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

Glad it is all sorted now then...so what we know after 9 pages of garbage is that...;
1) The GT-R is the *fastest car in the whole wide world...NUF SAID!*.
2) The TT-RS S-Tronic is the *fastest car in the whole wide world...NUF SAID!*.
3) The TT-RS 6-Spd is the *fastest car in the whole wide world...NUF SAID!*.

All other cars are are a joke because they are so slow...here comes Rory again...




*...ahh bliss...FAN...BLEEDING...TASTIC..!*


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

Post as you please, surely you have heard of a sterotype? I guarantee if you post this on
GTROC, there will be numerous posts of GHD's, salons, teeth whitening, lady boys and so on and on. The GTR also has it's stereotype, dare i say it, a chavs car, a boy racers wet dream and hence the stereotype i portrayed. I'm no more a gay hairdresser than you are a tatooed thug.

Rich posing twat in a lambo or a ferrari, middle aged balding overweight man in a 911 turbo.

Stereotypes you see, don't take it to heart ;-)

Audi quote 0-100km/h NOT 0-60 so please get your FACTS correct so it's half second.

Yes please do 30-130, vmax is pointless.

Cobb data logging? Is that taken direct from
ECU then? No GPS?


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

Mitchy said:


> ...
> 
> Rich posing twat in a lambo ....


Hey Mitchy...!, no need for that!!!

If you must shout then there is an ego problem is my view...when you got it no need to shout about it!

WB


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

Ohh, BTW...am back from school..hi ALL...


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

William, you're a poser fella, any car missing it's roof is for posing. Your Lambo, well, that says it all. Show off  8) :wink:


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

Mitchy said:


> William, you're a poser fella, any car missing it's roof is for posing ;-) Your Lambo, well, that says it all. Show off  8) :wink:


Ouch you bitch!!!


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

TBH, when a car has that much speed I certainly fear more than enjoy the speed on streets - never tracked the 640 so can't comment there.

To date, the most fun I have had in cars owned are as follows (in order of most fun)
1) MK2 XR2 Fiesta - this was back in the days and I thrashed the pants off it and it just made me feel like a hero as it was so easy to handle given my limited driving skills then...not that it has improved much today some 22-yrs later!!!

2) Boxster 2.5 - again just enuf power and grip to die for...spoilt, IMO, by the faster 986 'S' and the 987s of today.

3) TTQ R180 - my current daily driver...another fun car with enuf power so as not to get me in to trouble...all we have done is fitted larger ARBs all round...S I M P L E S.

The faster cars I own today are 'OK' for speed but things happen so quickly that it is not that much fun IMHO...the only way I can compare the 3 above to the 2 faster cars I own is as follows...;

those of us who can remember their 1st Porn Mag...well, I certainly never got past the first couple of pages as by the 3rd page I was well and truly spent. As the years rolled on, I worked out that the fun was towards the back pages where Lucious Lucy bared it ALL...luvly...so, a slow build up was best...never helped being the quickest or fastest...you just miss all the fun :wink:


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

Paul, I'd like to hear why you think it's not an instant shifting box, 0.008sec gearchange is pretty much up there as the quickest. Google it if you do not believe me.

As to what is required...

S-tronic TTRS -£45k
Remap -£650

That's it, so not heavily modified at all, 300kg less than a GTR remember. We will see at the next MLR event.

As to handling, not for me, I'm a straight line autopilot but there is a video of a 420bhp TTRS car all over and passing a 600bhp GTR in the twisty stuff. Good on the straights, losing it in braking and cornering. I would link you to it but on my iPhone just now. I'm sure someone else will though.

You are clearly biased towards your own car but to think it's invincible is just ignorant. A 485ps car is fast yes, no denying but you have to open your eyes and also note it's downfalls and that other 'lesser' cars can give it a hard time.

And as vmax is your thing, as stated previously a TTRS with 490bhp so pretty much exactly the same output as a stock GTR recorded 186mph, 4mph more than the 182mph of the R35. You muttered excuses of fuelling but that does not wash with me as he wouldn't have kept the foot planted to 182 if he was genuinely concerned. Let's not kid ourselves the car was flat out ;-) (see what I mean about being a tad biased, making up excuses for other cars ;-))

All that given that the cd of both cars is in favour of the GTR also just goes to show they are not as invincible as 1 would like to think they are ;-)


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)




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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

You cant be serious..thats all about track knowledge and clearly the GTR didn't have a clue where they were going, based on the brake lights.. :lol: nice try though..no cigar, im afraid.
Steve


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## Simon H (Jun 22, 2008)

So then, uumm, should i keep my RS, or buy a new GT-R ?  .


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

As to the speed of the stronic, yes it can be as fast as 8 milliseconds - at least for upshifts, downshifts take a little longer.

But I understand what people say when they think it's actually not "that" fast. It is truly fast for the amount of time the power is disengaged, the actual start-of-shift -> power resumed period of time is very fast.

However, there is very often an annoying delay between clicking a paddle and anything actually happening, the perceived delay can sometimes seem like a couple of seconds but in reality is probably a second or so. Still, that's about 125 times longer to decide to change than to do the change... I had hopes the new 7-speed s-tronic would have been better in this regard but no, which is what is a bit frustrating :roll:


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## Simon H (Jun 22, 2008)

I often notice the gearchange speed is dependent on throttle position, ie, when you are flat, its instantly quick, but sauntering along, with not much throttle, then sometimes it does feel lethargic.


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

Mitchy said:


> I think Nissan lost the plot when they increased the asking price to £70k before options.
> 
> Yes, it is just a Nissan, a very fast, loud Nissan. The TT gets it hard for people that swing the other way but the stereotypical view of a GTR driver is hardly any better. You know, thug, bald head, tattoos and an IQ in single digits.
> 
> ...


Mitchy Audi charge £70k for a loaded RS5 that I know for sure isnt any faster than a TTRS infact slower than a modded TTRS!
Isnt that losing the plot?


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

i thinks its nice Paul has joined this post as I was hearing a load of cobblers from a few people [smiley=bigcry.gif] 
would love to witness him up against a TTRS s-tronic that was at least stage 1 , want to see him win some money as the running costs are so high !lol!


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Mitchy said:


> Paul, I'd like to hear why you think it's not an instant shifting box, 0.008sec gearchange is pretty much up there as the quickest. Google it if you do not believe me.
> 
> As to what is required...
> 
> ...


You truly have no idea & as someone who's obviously on the back foot i'll let you continue to dream your dream & will agree with your co-forum folk in your attitude being narrow & pathetic. That said i've been on this forum since day 1 & have seen many people like you arrive & leave.

As i've said 3 times now, i also have an Audi with the 7 speed S-Tronic & it's gear changes are slower than my GT-R. I know this as i drive both cars often so me thinks i hold at least a slender qualification on the subject.

Handling isn't for you as i suspect you can't manage it. A child can drive any car quickly in a straight line :lol: You quote a video link of a TTRS passing a GT-R, guess what, i got overtaken by a transit van on the M6 the other day :-* . Given i'm race schooled at the Nordschleife from that video it's clear the GT-R driver was not even close to a racing line but it's possible the TTRS driver had bigger balls, was more reckless or had better track knowledge, i wasn't in either car so can't really comment. Track knowledge round any track is everything & at my last outing round Nordschleife I managed an 8:29 in my B7 RS4. I've not taken the GT-R round yet but that will get rectified in September.

Almost forgot, Cobb Datalogs are direct from the ECU

I'm far from biased to my own car, but i know exactly what it can do stock & modified & all i quote is based on that. Vmax is not my thing although i go to most of them & do enjoy them as i have many friends who attend, however i much prefer proper track action which would be difficult for you to enjoy as it involves corners.

Finally, i was at the VMAX event at which the stock GT-R was backing off at higher speeds (under advice), i know the car & driver so are you calling me a liar as by all means ask the owner yourself or see his report on GTROC.

http://fastestlaps.com/cars/nissan_gt-r.html


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

vwcheung said:


> Mitchy said:
> 
> 
> > I think Nissan lost the plot when they increased the asking price to £70k before options.
> ...


Totally agree with that. Loved the idea of the RS5 but in the real world it can't even touch the B7 RS4 it was meant to better so Audi missed a trick there & i'd defo take a TTRS over an RS5.


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

Paul, you know when you throw out the insults, you know, the you are stupid and pathetic and know nothing, does it make you feel big and clever?

You do realise that when you start throwing your toys out the pram, calling people stupid and pathetic, you've already lost the battle ;-) I have not called you back in retaliation so perhaps I wasn't too far off the mark with my stereotype ;-)

I fail to see why you are struggling?

As to forum colleagues, haha, pis*ing myself at that 1, I will speak my mind and always will do :lol:

Carry on, I just think your views are completely blinkered. Do me a favour though and search for the MLR figures, quite a few stock cars running there and you will see the manual TTRS very very close 

I will happily put my car against a stock GTR, no probs, find me 1, we will do a video and then you can apologise later. As to backing off, I read the thread, GTR richens the lambda values in order to cool and prevent det, yep mate, old news (check my threads) that's the ecu safeguards not something the chap has control over, his pedal was burried flat to the floor otherwise he would have backed off 150 if he had concerns not 182 lol. That's all it had, the TT with the same power had more.

RS5, wrong engine choice. Targa rally, hardly mediocre average Joe type drivers.


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## ChinsVXR (Apr 14, 2006)

After 10 pages I think I need to post 

Few things that grab my attention

7 Speed Box. I have a 7 Speed box in our VW at home and the difference is night and day from my TTRS's box. I also had a Porsche with the PDK box and the TTRS box is much closer to that than our VW's box. Not sure you can compare the 7 speed boxes between models. That said it can be slow at low revs, but I struggle to see when gunning it how a GTR can be quicker at gear changes.

0-60 etc. I would still think a GTR would be quicker than my TTRS and reckon I need to remap to keep up. Does it bother me - no. If anything I tend to think the TTRS is slower than the figures suggest and very rarely am blown away by its performance.

Should I sell the TTRS for a GTR? I guess like the majority of TTRS owners the GTR was within budget, at least until the new version came along. The reasons I stayed away was the GTR forum looking at the running costs/fuel consumption. I am getting close to 30mpg out of the TTRS and know the running costs are in line with a Golf R and most other warm hatches. If I use launch control then I might get through tyres a little quicker. Do I feel happier parking the TTRS over a GTR? Yes, think there is more chance of the TT being there in the morning. All the tea leafs will fancy a GTR for the night  Biggest issue was the IPAD mentality of the GTR. Each year the new version get launched and it seems a car where you have to have the latest to be in with the it crowd. Hate to see how depreciation will hit the latest version. Seems a very Japanese thing. I have to say I was in the middle of this when I owned Scoobies - all nine of them 

I love the GTR, would always like one as a third car. Another Boxster Spyder would be my second one  Couldnt get my head round having one as an only car.


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

Cobb datalogs from ecu so not verifiable GPS speed then? Buy yourself a vbox and at least talk from the same hymn sheet.

Chins, very good point about the 7 speed box, I can't see how he can say the GTRs is much better, I assume he means quicker shifting but yet 8 milliseconds is lightning quick, I'd like to see something that quotes the GTR shift time quicker than this. Paul, please forward evidence as there is a lot of talk from you.

As to the fastestlap link, look at the figures 0-200 and 1/4m and tell me they make sense to you. I shall post on gtroc to find out what the 485 cars are doing quarter miles in (UK)


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

Mitchy i would gladly shake you hand if this happened , it would prove me wrong , but remember my car is the manual and i agree that the s-tronic IS faster but that wasnt what i was getting at in my post, also i wasnt the one that was talking about the 997 gen3 turbo either being slower than the GTR, i had a test drive of a car newer than Paul's with a newer improved gearbox and more powerful engine , what i was getting at is that car would pull away from my Revo 1 RS No problem at all in every gear it felt so much quicker.
Now I'm just waiting for Doug to have a tinkle with your motor to see results, but until then all i'm left with is alot of figures on paper of a car that is stock. Figures aren't a subsitute for being there in real life Mitchy. Get it mapped video it killing a GTR 2011 and you get the gold medal! simple as!


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

W7 PMC said:


> Mitchy said:
> 
> 
> > I think Nissan lost the plot when they increased the asking price to £70k before options.
> ...


1. Looking through your car list I would say your choices have tended to be on more of the GT based type of cars. The RS6's quick in a straight line, the rs4 v8, well its nice but its slow in straight line for the money. The only saving grace in the list of your cars is the m5 but even then that was a heavy car. So im not surprised you are so in love with the GTR when compared to the cars you used to own.

2. 44k for the TTRS, 600 pounds for the map. Nowhere near the 50k mark.

3. Anyone can be a straight line pilot, anyone can drive a GTR fast. A member over on vagoc is beating all the GTRs in the targa tasmania rally though in his *slow* ttrs apart from one 750bhp GTR. What the TT lacks in outright power and straightline pace over the GTR's it makes up for cornering speed and agility :wink:


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

vwcheung said:


> Mitchy i would gladly shake you hand if this happened , it would prove me wrong , but remember my car is the manual and i agree that the s-tronic IS faster but that wasnt what i was getting at in my post, also i wasnt the one that was talking about the 997 gen3 turbo either being slower than the GTR, i had a test drive of a car newer than Paul's with a newer improved gearbox and more powerful engine , what i was getting at is that car would pull away from my Revo 1 RS No problem at all in every gear it felt so much quicker.
> Now I'm just waiting for Doug to have a tinkle with your motor to see results, but until then all i'm left with is alot of figures on paper of a car that is stock. Figures aren't a subsitute for being there in real life Mitchy. Get it mapped video it killing a GTR 2011 and you get the gold medal! simple as!


Those videos already exist with manual cars beating the stock GTR. No chance in hell of it making the net though.

Anyway I really dont get the issue here. Modded TTRS quicker than stock GTR? Big deal so what. Why is it so hard to believe. Mod the GTR and its completely game over for the TT. Whats the beef?

As for linking back to GTROC, go for it, there already was a thread in which my TT and my mates porka where discussed in as being "bloody quick". We are well known on the scene hence why we get to play against so many different toys.

Next up are some lambo murcielagos and enzos and a f40! Wonder how we will shape up to those 8)


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Mitchy said:


> Paul, you know when you throw out the insults, you know, the you are stupid and pathetic and know nothing, does it make you feel big and clever?
> 
> You do realise that when you start throwing your toys out the pram, calling people stupid and pathetic, you've already lost the battle ;-) I have not called you back in retaliation so perhaps I wasn't too far off the mark with my stereotype ;-)
> 
> ...


If nothing else, you're funny :lol:

Just to be clear, against all the proof displayed, the only comeback you have is a set of MLR figures in which no TTRS is mentioned, only you're reckoning that you can pull a better time? Do you not see the irony :lol:

Carry on speaking your mind as i've nothing against that but don't spout your assumptions & expect anyone to agree with you.

I've not called YOU stupid or pathetic, i've stated that your postings come across as a display of such. You argue against reasoned debate & factual responses with a quote about a single MLR event & support it with your version of events.

When does an ECU datalog become less accurate than a GPS one? :lol: How do you know what a car or driver did at an event given you've never spoke to him & iirc you didn't even attend?

I've no need to retaliate as i've nothing to prove & if a 420bhp TTRS beats a stock GT-R in a straight line then i'll be the first one to congratulate, as i would if it was quicker round a track. When it happens i'll post my congratulations. My assumptions & findings have nothing to do with me owning a GT-R, but more to do with having owned, driven, tuned & tracked a variety of cars.

As said, i'm a big fan of Audi & all things RS but nothing in their current camp interested me so i chose the GT-R which is a very different kind of car, however as it's performance stats show in virtually any situation, very little can get close to it on track or on the road. If a highly tuned TTRS can get close to a stock GT-R then fair enough, however i've only your opinion so far.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

TTRS_500 said:


> vwcheung said:
> 
> 
> > Mitchy i would gladly shake you hand if this happened , it would prove me wrong , but remember my car is the manual and i agree that the s-tronic IS faster but that wasnt what i was getting at in my post, also i wasnt the one that was talking about the 997 gen3 turbo either being slower than the GTR, i had a test drive of a car newer than Paul's with a newer improved gearbox and more powerful engine , what i was getting at is that car would pull away from my Revo 1 RS No problem at all in every gear it felt so much quicker.
> ...


Why won't they make the net?? Everything else does?

Only made reference to linking back to GTROC after my mate Mitchy posted a ridiculous stereotype for GT-R owners that's so wide of the mark it's laughable & given i own one i'm sure if anyone other than Mitchy agreed then i'd have heard it mentioned before.

No beef or issue, just a debate & differing opinions, fact & findings :-*


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

W7 PMC said:


> TTRS_500 said:
> 
> 
> > vwcheung said:
> ...


Because the people concerned dont want the possibility of unwanted attention by the wrong people.

Why dont you just take my word that:

A 996 turbo with a remap, decatted freeflow exhaust, and forge actuators is quicker than a stock GTR, and a stage 2 420bhp TTRS, that the TTRS is a teeny weeny quicker than the stock GTR at higher but still modest speeds, and that after this scenario the GTR owner threw 8k at the car and is now leaving us for dead.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

TTRS_500 said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Mitchy said:
> ...


Nearly missed this one. Agree fully, my lifestyle & work etc. mean it would be very tricky to run a genuine 2 seater sports car or anything as brash as a 997 Turbo or Gallardo (which is a bit of a shame), so you're correct that i need a performance car with some level of practicality. You really think an RS4 is slow? Most in the know still quote it's the best RS Audi has made & i tend to agree.

As for my reference to £50K for a TTRS, i was meaning that optioned up like a standard GT-R with Nav, upgraded sound & a few toys etc. you could be approaching £50K, but if Audi have recently altered their option prices or the TTRS comes fully loaded from the factory then i'm mistaken.

You reckon anyone can drive a GT-R fast? :roll: Perhaps take one out or watch one being driven fast as i can assure you they're easy to drive slowly but become alot harder the more you push on.


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

You reckon anyone can drive a GT-R fast? :roll: You keep thinking that & perhaps take one out or watch one being driven fast as i can assure you they're easy to drive slowly but become alot harder the more you push on.[/quote]

I agree, I'm comfortable with my RS in the wet had it over a year and I know my limits, on the day of the test drive it began to rain, on the B road I was on I really had to back off , not only was I not familiar with the car but any bad judgement and I would have wrapped it around a tree.
Even though it has loads of grip like the RS the power of the engine and the weight of the car was out of my comfort zone. In simple terms I shat myself  the RS has yet to replicate this feeling!


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Because the people concerned dont want the possibility of unwanted attention by the wrong people.

Why dont you just take my word that:

A 996 turbo with a remap, decatted freeflow exhaust, and forge actuators is quicker than a stock GTR, and a stage 2 420bhp TTRS, that the TTRS is a teeny weeny quicker than the stock GTR at higher but still modest speeds, and that after this scenario the GTR owner threw 8k at the car and is now leaving us for dead.[/quote]

Wow, i never knew people could control the Internet in such a way :roll:

This 996 Turbo you make reference to above, please quote the outputs as in the spec you refer i'd suggest it's about 530bhp? So i'd be happy that it would have a slight advantage over a stock GT-R. An MY11 (same power at 530bhp) would likely reverse this result.

As said, i'd be pleasantly surprised if the 420bhp TTRS could beat a GT-R but i'll happily be proved wrong. To cement this debate though, exactly what measure do you feel this win would take? Sprint to 60 or 100, lap times or some other measure?

Who was it who threw £8K at their car & what's it producing now?


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

W7 PMC said:


> Nearly missed this one. Agree fully, my lifestyle & work etc. mean it would be very tricky to run a genuine 2 seater sports car or anything as brash as a 997 Turbo or Gallardo (which is a bit of a shame), so you're correct that i need a performance car with some level of practicality. You really think an RS4 is slow? Most in the know still quote it's the best RS Audi has made & i tend to agree.
> 
> As for my reference to £50K for a TTRS, i was meaning that optioned up like a standard GT-R with Nav, upgraded sound & a few toys etc. you could be approaching £50K, but if Audi have recently altered their option prices or the TTRS comes fully loaded from the factory then i'm mistaken.
> 
> You reckon anyone can drive a GT-R fast? :roll: Perhaps take one out or watch one being driven fast as i can assure you they're easy to drive slowly but become alot harder the more you push on.


Had a RS4 for a while. Really really nice car as an overall package but a bit limp in straight line performance tbh. Its one of those cars that looks great on paper, but it got its ass kicked by a 360bhp mk2 leon cupra never mind the TTRS which just left it behind for dead.










I see, I would have a GTR, but am still concerned about running costs. I drive very hard, and couldnt afford to buy new brakes and tyres for the it every 3 months, the servicing costs and with keeping up with my karting.

Easy to drive fast? I think it is yes, relative to other cars in that performance bracket? For sure. Do you think you could lap a rwd 997 GT2 RS as quick as the GTR? I dont think I could granted im saying that without having driven both, but going by magazine reviews, unless the porka is being driven by a top class driver the GTR will be the quicker car simply for the fact its easier to drive on the limit. Its a bit like a evo people climb in drive hard and look like a driving god due to all the gadgetry.


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

W7 PMC said:


> Wow, i never knew people could control the Internet in such a way :roll:
> 
> This 996 Turbo you make reference to above, please quote the outputs as in the spec you refer i'd suggest it's about 530bhp? So i'd be happy that it would have a slight advantage over a stock GT-R. An MY11 (same power at 530bhp) would likely reverse this result.
> 
> ...


The owners have the videos, the owners wont be posting it online for reasons meantioned above.

The porka dynod 510bhp, its had a decat and actuators since then so 530bhp could be a good guess.

Now the TTRS dynos 420bhp, but it suffers dramatically from heatsoak on the dyno due to the way the engine is packaged. Out on the road the power could be closer to 450bhp. Either way whenever people see it in action they disbelieve that it can only be 420bhp. Brabus merc SL has been dispatched

The runs start from 40mph rolling and keep going until there is no runway left.

Its running 650bhp, gearbox has been reinforced


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

TTRS_500 said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Nearly missed this one. Agree fully, my lifestyle & work etc. mean it would be very tricky to run a genuine 2 seater sports car or anything as brash as a 997 Turbo or Gallardo (which is a bit of a shame), so you're correct that i need a performance car with some level of practicality. You really think an RS4 is slow? Most in the know still quote it's the best RS Audi has made & i tend to agree.
> ...


Balanced response 

I never found my RS4 to be limp in a straight line, as any car that can crack 60 in well under 5 secs is quick. Agree it's not light but RS's never are as that's not their aim. A stock TTRS be a tad quicker but i doubt by huge margins & you can't get away from the fact that the B7 RS4 is still viewed by many journos etc. as the most complete RS Audi have produced to date.

Also agree that the GT-R is easier to drive closer to its limits than certain other cars, but that doesn't make it an easy car to drive quick & to be fair i can't see the point of driving a car day to day that's a challenge unless you're purely doing track driving. To check though, what other cars are you putting in the same bracket as the GT-R? A GT2 RS is twice the price, as are most of the other RWD supercars that could compete on performance.

Driven normally the GT-R can be tamed easily enough, but it still shocks when the loud pedal is pressed & don't forget, unlike the TTRS or other RS's the GT-R is totally RWD the majority of the time & the front wheels only engage within certain limits so they do not perform any kind of magic.

Just look at these lap times:

My model of GT-R stock: http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/nissan_gt-r.html
The new MY11 GT-R stock: http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/nissan_gt-r_2011.html
Audi TTRS stock: http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/audi_tt-rs_coupe.html
Audi B7 RS4 stock: http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/audi_rs4_b7.html
Porsche 997 Turbo S stock: http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/porsche ... rbo_s.html


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

TTRS_500 said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, i never knew people could control the Internet in such a way :roll:
> ...


Fair enough, i can't comment if they're not in the public domain.

The GT-R suffers with heatsoak as all forced induction cars do. My car with just a map & cat-back zorst was dynoed at 595bhp & stock MY10 cars often get closer to 500 than the 485 that Nissan suggest.

As said a few times, i've no doubt a stock TTRS is quick & of course a modified one will be quicker still, but why debate apples vs. pears given stock vs stock or modified vs modified isn't really much of a contest, along with the fact that the measure of a car is not just it's 0-60 or 0-100 as roads & tracks have corners, braking & off camber etc.


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

Paul,

This is the table I was referring too..










Standard GTR 30-130 times...

13.89
13.39
12.92

The only TTRS that run was a manual car with 410bhp and that posted 14.26, so yes all the stock GTR's posted better times, however, look how close it was to that 13.89. I suspect the difference between the stock GTR's was down to weight and fuel load as its just press and go. In defence of the TTRS, he was struggling with his fuel, boost and timing settings and the car was not fully optimised, it should have run quicker and had there been more TTRS's there, the times would have been better.

Out on the open road (Private road) my *manual car* recorded this at its very best...(Same vbox method as in the MLR day used, forget Cobb datalogging, vbox GPS verified is the only way)

*12.06*










And then *Standard S-Tronic* car... *12.89*










Okay, not entirely fair or representative, different roads, conditions, etc but why do you think I am so confident? My manual car has posted a 12.06 which beats all 3 of the cars above, and my S-Tronic car standard has posted a 12.89 which is quicker than all 3 of the cars above also.

What's the S-Tronic going to do tuned? 11's for sure. Take from that what you will.

PWR TTRS (With driver)...410/1518kg = 270bhp/ton
PWR GTR (With driver)...478 /1813kg = 263bhp/ton

There in black and white, the only reason the GTR's beat the TTRS was because of its auto box, (And the fact the TTRS that was running that day was not properly set up)

As to GTR fuelling at high speed, correct me if I'm wrong but the ecu richens the mixture to prevent overheating....

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/151243-v-max-3.html (Post 36)

Nothing unusual there, the TTRS does exactly the same thing, but it is controlled by EGT temps. As soon as the limit is reached, the ECU richens the lambda and a subsequent loss in power is noted, inbuilt safety feature and should not be used as an excuse. If a GTR is maxed out, its maxed out, if it needs new injectors to go 180+, then it needs new injectors.

Some videos...

430bhp TTRS vs 550bhp M5....






Same M5 vs GTR...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9JXVmdg ... ure=relmfu

Tuned R8 vs Tuned TTRS... 




TTRS 3.25/11.6 quarter shot a few weeks ago.. 




As to pace and handling...A GT3RS is pretty much a ring car im sure you'll agree...Fast forward to 16mins in..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjI87JsJ ... re=related

Anyway, I'll leave it there, you have a very quick car, I wont get near it in mine. A standard car however, well there's lots of evidence there that these little TT's go quick :wink: GTR quick, in my opinion yes but I'm sure we'll find out.

Over and out on this 1 now.


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

W7 PMC said:


> As i've said 3 times now, i also have an Audi with the 7 speed S-Tronic & it's gear changes are slower than my GT-R. I know this as i drive both cars often so me thinks i hold at least a slender qualification on the subject.


Can I have an apology for the above please? I think you need to take your Audi back to the garage :wink:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shift_time
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/nissa ... 35006.html

DSG = PDK = 8 milliseconds, GTR = 200milliseconds :lol: :lol: :lol:

0.008s vs 0.2secs. (I can flatshift a manual in 0.25secs)

The less said about that the better then, the DSG (S-Tronic) trounces the GTR box by a long long way, it's 25 x quicker


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Mitchy said:


> Paul,
> 
> This is the table I was referring too..
> 
> ...


Interesting response. 

Loads of videos about with good/bad results for most Marques, but you'll see i've tried to balance any facts based on drivers of similar skill levels & in similar conditions.

The difference in GT-R times at this MLR event you put down to fuel & weight, how do you know this? It could be down to driver ability & let's not forget that some GT-R owner & no doubt the same applies to TTRS owners will be less sympathetic when launching. I found the press & go comment funny, as your logic must apply to any Dual Clutch car & it's just as easy to launch a manual car assuming you know the biting point of your clutch. Of course Launch Control helps this but i've a bit of news for you in that you need to use the paddles to shift if in R mode & you can't perform a proper launch in anything other than R's.

How on earth can you believe that GPS data logging is more accurate than ECU data logging?. A GPS is at best fairly accurate but the ECU is 100% accurate.

"The only reason the GT-R's won is because they had an Auto box" (you of cause mean DSG) :lol: So the fact they're faster on paper according to their makers has nothing to do with it & the fact they're a more focused performance car doesn't count then? :lol:

Given you did the logging in your car etc. i'd hardly say that's proof of anything, just yet again your version. The same can be said for my data, but i don't quote it as fact, just information. Even without 100% accuracy, they're good speeds/times.

No doubt i'll at some point encounter a tuned TTRS to play with on track & i'll be sure to let you know the outcomes (either way), but at this point i'm no more convinced that a stock TTRS would worry a stock GT-R than i was before & unless you went balls out with modifcations to the TTRS (a mere map wouldn't cut it), then a modified one isn't going to lower the gap by that much.

I am however fairly sure that if you tuned a TTRS to the same power levels as a stock GT-R then that would alter the game & in a straight line i'd be sure the TTRS would have the edge, however & this is more my point of interest as i like cars that can perform well in a variety of scenarios, round a track it would still likely be behind the GT-R (driven by similar skilled drivers).

Point on the VMAX stock GT-R (given i was there & know the driver), on one of his early runs he did experience a slight stutter around the 180 mark so at that point & based on findings by another owner at a previous event the owner backed off full throttle. I know this because he told me & given it was reported by David Yu at the previous event i decided to upgrade my Injectors prior to VMAX (not an expensive upgrade). It's not soley speed related & may never actually cause any damage, but any responsible owner would take some care with this thought in the back of their mind. I can't comment on the TTRS as i didn't speak to the owner about his runs, only to compliment his car.

Liking the banter & totally agree that both cars are very quick.


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

Paul, how can you argue that ECU data logging = GPS data logging? 150 on your speedo is probably at best 145mph GPS. So if you do a 50-150 data log you're probably doing 48mph to 145mph real test giving inacuuracies.

Your 197 at Bruntingthorpe was probably 205+ on your speedo dial.

Admittedly, I dont know much about Cobb data logging but if its ECU based then it cannot properly measure speed unless you know something I do not?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Mitchy said:


> Paul, how can you argue that ECU data logging = GPS data logging? 150 on your speedo is probably at best 145mph GPS. So if you do a 50-150 data log you're probably doing 48mph to 145mph real test giving inacuuracies.
> 
> Your 197 at Bruntingthorpe was probably 205+ on your speedo dial.
> 
> Admittedly, I dont know much about Cobb data logging but if its ECU based then it cannot properly measure speed unless you know something I do not?


Because GPS has a delay that in some devices is quite a significant delay (such as Sat Navs etc.). You make a fair point though as i'm not 100% positive where the ECU read comes from, however i assume it's based around the engine speeds & not wheel speeds which is where the Speedo get's it's feed.

I can only liken this to the trick that was possible on the MKI TT (may also be possible on the MKII) but you could mess with the Climate Control so it displayed speeds (& other parameters) instead of Temperature & i believe this feed was coming from the ecu & not wheel rotation.

To be fair though, the GT-R over reads by a fairly small margin as the runs at Brunters were only adrift by about 3-4mph at worst. The 197mph was 201 on the speedo.

Defo not an expert on data logging, so if the device you refer to is more accurate than an ECU datalog via a Cobb then fair enough 

Details on the Cobb: http://cobbtuning.com/products/?id=3853


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## alloy (Jul 26, 2011)

Mitchy/ LEO-RS

I love your passion for the Audi, as we have discussed before it seems to be a great machine for what it is.....

As we have also discussed....bring it out....you ever heard of lies, damn lies and then statistics? All you do is present statistics from events, who knows what is really happening there, they are not comparable....the benchmark is Santa Pod or a circuit....that's the real measure of a car, there's no hiding and no excuse....so bring it out.

Also i appreciate i am as guilty as the next man, but you cant compare a modded car to a factory car....TT-RS vs GTR the GTR is the victor, modded TT-RS vs modded GTR will return the same result.

You present a half good case to the uneducated, but it looks like you have invested a whole heap of time into this, time you could have spent driving down to Santa Pod/circuit and actually gaining proper fair first hand experience. You want to see what modded TT-RS can do against a GTR, lets do it.... 

The truth is both TT-RS and GTR have their merits and discredits...it's what package suits you best....but if you are curious i make myself and my car available to find out


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

alloy said:


> Mitchy/ LEO-RS
> 
> I love your passion for the Audi, as we have discussed before it seems to be a great machine for what it is.....
> 
> ...


Hello Alloy and welcome,

Just AA route planned door step to door step and its 509.8m. Over 1000m, £250 in fuel, same again in hotels, couple of days wasted just to get my ass handed to me on a plate as If I remember correctly you're running around 600bhp in your GTR. No way will an OEM turbo TTRS be competing with tuned GTR's and this thread was never about that.

I will go to the next 30-130 MLR event, I think that's worth the time and cost but not so keen unless I'm down that way arranging a trip to santapod. I think I've provided more than enough evidence that these cars are a little nippy [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Due to distances involved for most of us there's no real way of comparing cars, vbox method is the next best thing, find a long enough private section of road to carry out a run on and post the graph. If santapod was on my doorstep then fair enough, I'd be there like a shot week in week out trying all sorts but it's not, I have Crail on my doorstep, poor quality strip that ive never paid much attention to it. However, if i can find a standard GTR to run against I'd be up for that. If you fancy a trip up this way, I'll happily run side by side and try and keep up but at 600hp I dont think I'd stand a chance :lol:

Its not fair comparing apples and bananas as you say but I've always stated this is the case, standard vs standard and modded vs modded, the GTR wins hands down, no denying, no arguments, just plain and simple, GTR wins. This thread went off on a tangent though where the other chap with a GTR specifically said that even a modded TT wouldn't keep up to which i disagreed with and then fired plenty of ammunition back at him.

Was a bit surprised at how slow your gearbox upshifts were though, thought Nissan would have resolved that for the MY12 car :roll: :wink:


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

On I have caused a bit of a stir GTR drivers on the TT forum!, members of VAGOC slagging off this Post on their own forum , I'll prob get chucked off it but the Chap own made this comment,Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc 
Yeah, apparently somebody dared to suggest that another more expensive car is faster, even though it clearly is not*

He even admitted never driving either of the cars , so why comment on this topic??


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## TTRS-S (Mar 30, 2011)

W7 PMC said:


> mrdemon said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think there was a standard GTR at Vmax , I asked as I wanted to go up v one.
> ...


I just had to reply to this.

Are you for real?

Your lard arse car has a lower power to weight ratio (in sprint times this is the key figure) than a stg1/2 TTRS so with decent driver in TTRS it will be quicker period.

I can't take playstation cars and drivers seriously, coz your skill level is obviously very low hence you need the electronics to do it all for you. what is the point to a GTR?


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

vwcheung said:


> On I have caused a bit of a stir GTR drivers on the TT forum!, members of VAGOC slagging off this Post on their own forum , I'll prob get chucked off it but the Chap own made this comment,Quote:
> Originally Posted by Marc
> Yeah, apparently somebody dared to suggest that another more expensive car is faster, even though it clearly is not*
> 
> He even admitted never driving either of the cars , so why comment on this topic??


I wouldn't worry about it mate, the threads gone off on a tangent as per usual :lol:

For sure the MY12 GTR is a bit of a monster so you've not said anything incorrect, it's just some of us think that the 485 car is within reach of our tuned TTRS's that has clearly caused a stir.

So when are you trading in the hairdressers TT for the chav charriot R35?  :lol: :wink:


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Can you "boys" hang fire for 10 minutes I've run out of popcorn :wink:


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

So so boring now.. I dont see there has to be any arguing or confusion about it..

Fastest TTRS I have seen anywhere has done an 11.61 1/4.. Fastest GTR has done a low 9.. What does that mean? F*ck all! Just go and enjoy your cars and quit moaning..


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

Mitchy said:


> vwcheung said:
> 
> 
> > On I have caused a bit of a stir GTR drivers on the TT forum!, members of VAGOC slagging off this Post on their own forum , I'll prob get chucked off it but the Chap own made this comment,Quote:
> ...


lol thats brilliant!


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

jonnyc said:


> So so boring now.. I dont see there has to be any arguing or confusion about it..
> 
> Fastest TTRS I have seen anywhere has done an 11.61 1/4.. Fastest GTR has done a low 9.. What does that mean? F*ck all! Just go and enjoy your cars and quit moaning..


the BIG MAN has spoken! yes its become an argument all from one statement that wasnt even racist. How loyal are people to their cars :-|


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## leenx (Feb 8, 2010)

This post is so funny :lol: 7 pages on why a TTRS doesn't feel upto scratch. Just sell it and buy yourself a Fiat Panda instead - then 3 weeks later sell it and buy back the TTRS and then it will feel like shit of a shovel! :lol:


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

Jonny was your 3.22/11.61 captured anywhere? I see 3.25 and 11.66, where did you pinch the extra 0.05 from? I see no TT's got a mention, very strange? Looks like an S4 and an RS4 beat you guys?










Have you been to santapod yet?


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I got emailed this thread by a friend from one of the other forums some of you lot are a LAUGHING STOCK :lol: :lol:


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## alloy (Jul 26, 2011)

Mitchy said:


> Was a bit surprised at how slow your gearbox upshifts were though, thought Nissan would have resolved that for the MY12 car :roll: :wink:


GTR shift time 0.2 seconds.....average person blinks in .3/4 seconds :wink:


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## leenx (Feb 8, 2010)

jamman said:


> I got emailed this thread by a friend from one of the other forums some of you lot are a LAUGHING STOCK :lol: :lol:


 :lol: :lol: :roll:


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## alloy (Jul 26, 2011)

jamman said:


> I got emailed this thread by a friend from one of the other forums some of you lot are a LAUGHING STOCK :lol: :lol:


TT owner laughing stock....hardly news :lol:


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

alloy said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > I got emailed this thread by a friend from one of the other forums some of you lot are a LAUGHING STOCK :lol: :lol:
> ...


Good point although some of the RS owners seems able to take it to another level :wink:


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## alloy (Jul 26, 2011)

jamman said:


> alloy said:
> 
> 
> > jamman said:
> ...


Clue is surely in the title....INADEQUATE....I guess a common theme for these owners 

Enjoy your motoring, there will always be something faster....


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## DaveMat (Feb 21, 2011)

Mitchy said:


> Paul, how can you argue that ECU data logging = GPS data logging?


Possibly because the GTR ECU is GPS enabled...

How else do you think it disables the limiter when you drive the car onto a track?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Mitchy said:


> alloy said:
> 
> 
> > Mitchy/ LEO-RS
> ...


Exactly what ammunition did you fire back at me? A log you made with your car & a single MLR event where the GT-R still came out well ahead. No proof or ammunition at all my friend, just your wild theories.

This debate is becoming more fun as i'm hearing stories of you crazy claims & arguments from other forums now, so it appears you're a bit of a star (for all the wrong reasons).

The only modded TTRS that's going to keep with a stock GT-R is one with comparable power & even then given the GT-R can do far more than go quick in straight lines, the TTRS wouldn't stand a chance on a track. For proof (as already displayed), look at the cars the stock GT-R has trounced on numerous tracks.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

TTRS-S said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > mrdemon said:
> ...


Which troll tree did you fall out of? :lol:

The TTRS my friend is the easier car to drive I think you'll find, why not read up on it & as a starting point, check out the driven wheels of both cars. [smiley=book2.gif]. If being able to do more than drive quickly in straight lines means i've a very low skill level then you're probably right. But as i've received plenty of track tuition & race school training in the UK & Europe, i'd hazard a guess that i have adequate skill levels.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jamman said:


> alloy said:
> 
> 
> > jamman said:
> ...


Afternoon buddy. How's tricks? I too was alerted to this thread via a couple of pm's & was amazed at what i was reading. To be fair though, i should have resisted replying but the force was strong [smiley=bomb.gif]


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jonnyc said:


> So so boring now.. I dont see there has to be any arguing or confusion about it..
> 
> Fastest TTRS I have seen anywhere has done an 11.61 1/4.. Fastest GTR has done a low 9.. What does that mean? F*ck all! Just go and enjoy your cars and quit moaning..


As a slight aside, loving the look of your Black TTRS 8).

Any chance you'd like to share the specs as assuming by the name it's around the 500bhp mark i'd love to know what's been done?


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## hope88 (Mar 25, 2011)

Wow... this thread is an interesting read...

I am seriously considering buying a MY10 GTR at the moment but a colleague at work brought me back to reality. To properly maintain this beast costs a small fortune. Although I must say it is a very capable machine. It's really easy to drive fast in it if you have the aids on. The launch control is simply amazing.

However, I am let down by the interior build quality. It's just not up to standard compared to the German rivals.

Anyway, comparing a tuned TTRS to a stock-ish GTR is a little bit unfair. I am on another forum which a member has a high spec JUN tuned GTR and that is just immense and I feel should be able to beat most TTRS here easily.


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

W7 PMC said:


> As a slight aside, loving the look of your Black TTRS 8).
> 
> Any chance you'd like to share the specs as assuming by the name it's around the 500bhp mark i'd love to know what's been done?


Cheers, but you haven't seen it too recently then? hehe.. Its changed colour 8)

Mine is running the Revo RT500 package, makes just a little over 500hp.. GTI International wasn't the best place to test 1/4 mile times but I think its got an 11.4 in it in the current spec at Pod on a cooler day  Its a great little car and I look forward to tinkering more and more until I get bored!

For what its worth, I was seriously considering a GTR a year or so ago, there were so so many reasons why I should have bought it, but I just didnt feel 'right' in it if that makes sense.. A little too big for me and what I need but there was no denying the performance!.. (the car I was looking at had full bolt on's and was running just over 600hp)

Since then I have driven a stock GTR and also put the TT up against it.. Lets just say I would have to play with a GTR if I owned one, which I would as a matter of course anyways..

Back to the point.. The GTR is a giant killer and inevitably its going to be targeted as 'the car to beat' as its an incredible bench mark for 'lesser' cars to aim for.. This whole thread is a perfect example of that.

At the end of the day, I could go and throw in the TT and buy myself a GTR and tune it to death but its just not for me, does that make me wright or wrong in my decision? Nope, I dont think so..

In terms of performance, I only have time for side-by-side comparisons in controlled environments and 1/4 mile times.. Anything other than that is 99% of the time illegal and has so many variables that the data is never anything more than an indication at best!


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## jamiekip (Nov 12, 2006)

W7 PMC said:


> To be fair though, i should have resisted replying but the force was strong [smiley=bomb.gif]


We've all been there


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

W7 PMC said:


> Mitchy said:
> 
> 
> > alloy said:
> ...


You're hillarious :lol: :lol:

You clearly stated that your GTR transmission was much quicker at shifting than your DSG transmission, I have proven with facts and figures that you do not know what you are talking about. 0.2secs vs 0.008 secs is some 25x slower.

You have then fibbed that a stock GTR is capable of an 11sec 1/4m, another lot of rubbish, tuned 550-600hp with intake, map and Y-Pipe perhaps but not stock. I think the current UK record is more like 11.7 so quite a world away from your 11secs claim

Do you understand the terminology power to weight ratio? Serious question, as you are clearly dismissing that the GTR weighs circa 1750kg, 300kg more than the TT.The TT does not need comparable figures to compete, it's simple physics.

Can you stop going on about track, I have never seen a track, I never will do and I do not know of 1 person personally that has ever taken their car to a track, no seriously, gods honest truth. If I was into that sort of thing, I wouldn't be hurtling round a track in something that weighed 1800kg+ (With driver) I'd have a lot more fun in a car with half that weight and with half that power.

None of my claims are crazy, vbox figures are not made up, it's impossible to manipulate a vbox file, it does what it says and measures acceleration. I have plenty proof of that. To date, it's you that is doing the waffling and not backing anything up.

Lets take your fastestlaps links...

TTRS 340 = 0-100 in 9.3secs (1450kg) 234bhp/ton
GTR 485 = 0-100 in 7.8secs (1740kg) 278bhp/ton
GTR 530 = 0-100 in 7.2secs (1736kg) 305bhp/ton

Makes sense yes? The more bhp/ton, the quicker the acceleration.

Now remap the TTRS to 420bhp, PWR now turns into 289bhp/ton. What do you think happens to that 9.3secs to 100 time? Can it beat that 7.8 set by the GTR? If not, why not? What is giving the GTR the advantage?

Give the TTRS the same 485bhp as you have clearly stated above then the PWR turns to 334bhp/ton. With a quicker changing transmission a 485bhp TTRS would be long gone, way ahead of both 485/530 GTR's.

I'm really struggling with you as you think you know what you're talking about but you clearly do not. Post some vbox logs up please, infact post anything that will show me that a tuned TTRS cannot get anywhere near a GTR.

I have already posted a video of JC's TTRS running 3.25 and 11.6 up a 1/4m strip and that's quicker than any stock GTR has done in the UK so you're arguing black is white :roll:

I dont get your fascination with me personally, you clearly have a chip on your shoulder about something [smiley=baby.gif]


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Hang fire "boyz" need more popcorn :wink:


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## alloy (Jul 26, 2011)

I have a slip from Santa pod here with 11.68 1/4mile stock 09 car.....jonnyc best is 11.61 with more hp and less weight (I'll leave you to do the maths).....


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

alloy said:


> I have a slip from Santa pod here with 11.68 1/4mile stock 09 car.....jonnyc best is 11.61 with more hp and less weight (I'll leave you to do the maths).....


JonnyC recorded a 3.15 to 60 and an 11.69 at last years event with only a tune and exhaust, 420bhp.

He fluffed it this year, no idea what he's done but he's made his car slower to 60 with more power and only marginally quicker 0.08 over the full 1/4. He has a hybrid turbo and WMI but something was clearly not right this year.

Take his 11.69 and 420bhp so pretty much matches your 11.68, I'd say that's enough evidence. In addition to that, Jonny has no LC and a manual box to shift through.

Are you the UK record holder at 11.68? Were you not running Y-Pipe too?


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## alloy (Jul 26, 2011)

Mitchy said:


> alloy said:
> 
> 
> > I have a slip from Santa pod here with 11.68 1/4mile stock 09 car.....jonnyc best is 11.61 with more hp and less weight (I'll leave you to do the maths).....
> ...


"Something clearly not right", i'm shocked to hear you making excuses.... :lol:

Not sure about record holder, don't think too many uk gtrs see the 1/4mile enough to get a good sample....11.65 with y-pipe...

So 420 TTRS and 485 GTR.....the Audi has 4% edge on Power/weight and still loses on the 1/4 mile time......not a huge amount of shock and awe here is there?


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## YoungOldUn (Apr 12, 2011)

jamman said:


> Hang fire "boyz" need more popcorn :wink:


I take it that another wagon load has been delivered :wink:


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Oh, Mitchy, i dont know where you got the 8msec shifting time from but you are way wrong and you shouldn't post info unless you have the full and correct facts matey.

Wheres that popcorn..


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Please don't drag me into this.. I'll run my car again at Pod soon and see how I get on there but really all I are about is competition amongst the model type and not vs GTR's etc.. Comparing times is nice for sure but I'm not going to loose sleep over it!


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## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

V6RUL said:


> Oh, Mitchy, i dont know where you got the 8msec shifting time from but you are way wrong and you shouldn't post info unless you have the full and correct facts matey.
> 
> Wheres that popcorn..


What?!.. So your telling me the S-Tronic TTRS doesn't change faster than a Formula 1 car?!.. Damn..


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

Well, Patrik is having fun in his slow car - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvdfEVLm ... ploademail - that is for real not quoting endless stats...!!!

Good bye for now...


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

jonnyc said:


> V6RUL said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, Mitchy, i dont know where you got the 8msec shifting time from but you are way wrong and you shouldn't post info unless you have the full and correct facts matey.
> ...


Sorry Jonny..its true..but maybe Mitchy has something really really special..


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

V6RUL said:


> Oh, Mitchy, i dont know where you got the 8msec shifting time from but you are way wrong and you shouldn't post info unless you have the full and correct facts matey.
> 
> Wheres that popcorn..


Couple of articles posted a few pages back, pdk and DSG boxes both being 8milliseconds, but perhaps you can educate me with something more concrete in black and white.

Put it this way on the vbox logs you cannot pick it up and if a standard S-Tronic car with 335bhp is doing 8.54 secs to 100 then its obviously doing something right ;-) (A 500bhp manual is doing it in 8.34 so just goes to show the sheer advantage of instant shift changes)

As reference...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shift_time
http://cars.about.com/od/thingsyouneedt ... Gworks.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox
http://www.carmayogi.in/articles/164-dsg-vs-tc.html
http://www.enginesandgearboxes.co.uk/ma ... boxes.aspx

That's 5 online references all showing 8ms shift times, shall I search for 5 more?

F1 upshift time is said to be 0.05secs from what I can gather. Still though everything there in black and white, the numbers have not just been plucked from mid air.


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Guys

Loving the (hopefully friendly!) banter going on. Don't care for popcorn but have demolished a few 6-packs of coke!

Just thought I'd back Mitchy up on one thing (still getting used to my RS so no idea how quick it is... although I know its not in the same league as a gt-r, but then neither are the running costs :lol: ) - which is that 8ms shift time.

The Audi s-tronic has an "average" shift time of 600ms taking into account all types of gear changes. When changing up to the next pre-selected gear though, it is documented at 8ms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox



> Better fuel economy (up to 15% improvement) than conventional planetary geared automatic transmission (due to lower parasitic losses from oil churning) and for some models with manual transmissions
> No loss of torque transmission from the engine to the driving wheels during gear shifts
> Extremely fast up-shift time of 8 milliseconds when shifting to a gear the alternate gear shaft has preselected
> Very smooth gear-shift operations
> Consistent shift time of 600 milliseconds, regardless of throttle or operational mode


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

V6RUL said:


> jonnyc said:
> 
> 
> > V6RUL said:
> ...


Let's wait and see! But I remember a song called daydreamer!


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

YoungOldUn said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > Hang fire "boyz" need more popcorn :wink:
> ...


Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey Im not fat I'm big boned :wink:



V6RUL said:


> Wheres that popcorn..


Steve I can spare you some salted but no sweet sorry that's all mine :wink:


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

vwcheung said:


> Let's wait and see! But I remember a song called daydreamer!


Day dreaming what though? What have I said that is factually incorrect in this thread? Point me to it please as everything I have claimed has been backed up with either acceleration charts or online references, no one else has posted anything else other than opinion.

Like I said before a manual TTRS is like a TTS in comparison to a TTRS, the difference between manual and S-tronic is night and day. Dont believe me, try 1 yourself.

The next vbox run I do when I get the car tuned will include a little speedo video, 0-100mph in the 7's guaranteed.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I can't wait for the next vbox run I'm sooooo excited


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

At WOT gear changes are seamless and due to the torque convertor there is no noticeable change in power delivery..so this time would be classed as instantaneous or a smooth transition.
At reduced throttle position the box becomes lazy and takes its time..but still quite quick but also can be clunky.
The 8msec comes from an average of changes whereas you are talking about WOT all the time and so i would say seamless in a time relationship.

It does seem what you have posted links to are all cut and paste from a master document.

For me the DSG or S-Tronic boxes are the future of driving and only the purists want to keep their hands on their big knob.
I have paid lots of wonga to keep my box alive and i intend to keep it for as long as i can as its the best kept secret out there.
Steve


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

V6RUL said:


> At WOT gear changes are seamless and due to the torque convertor there is no noticeable change in power delivery..so this time would be classed as instantaneous or a smooth transition.
> At reduced throttle position the box becomes lazy and takes its time..but still quite quick but also can be clunky.
> The 8msec comes from an average of changes whereas you are talking about WOT all the time and so i would say seamless in a time relationship.
> 
> ...


Just look at the real world figures for evidence...

Quickest accelerating manual TTRS with 500bhp does 0-100 in 8.34 (Sticky tyres, lighter car, 5000+ launch)
My car with 335bhp and with 8 millisecond gearchanges (so instant) does 0-100 in 8.54 (road tyres, 3200 launch, heavier car)

I'd say that's conclusive evidence that the gearbox is a marvel [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

The shift times are there for everybody to see though and I was surprised to see the GTR quite far down that table.

Quicker changing up the box than what an F1 car is eh Jonny, who would have guessed  (Unless someone proves otherwise)


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## Simon H (Jun 22, 2008)

V6RUL said:


> At WOT gear changes are seamless and due to the torque convertor there is no noticeable change in power delivery..so this time would be classed as instantaneous or a smooth transition.
> At reduced throttle position the box becomes lazy and takes its time..but still quite quick but also can be clunky.
> The 8msec comes from an average of changes whereas you are talking about WOT all the time and so i would say seamless in a time relationship.
> 
> ...


Steve,
I couldnt have put it better myself. Totally agree with you here. The first gearbox i drove with flappy paddles, was in my M5, and that wasnt even a twin clutch box, but, it showed me that the acceleration, could be uninterrupted when changing gear, and that appealed to me instantly. A proper twin clutch gearbox, as in the likes of Audi S-Tronic, BMW DCT, and Nissans GT-R is definately the way forward. When i watch all these Youtube vids etc, of the GT-R, one of the outstanding features i pick up on, is the sound and instantisity [is there such a word ?], of its gearchange. I actually bought my TT RS over the GT-R at the time, and im neither gay, or a chav for liking the Nissan. There are car enthusiasts out there, that dont fall into any of these categorys. Would love a drive in the 2011 GT-R, regards, SIMON.


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## moncler1 (Sep 28, 2008)

When weighed my TTRS came out at 1500 Kg.

Doesn't the automatic version pack a few extra rolls of fat round the midrift?


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

1450kg manual
1475kg S-Tronic

Some people are adding intercoolers and big brake kits and slowing these things down though :wink:

I know Pov is a light chappy but his car with him sat inside weighed 1516kg IIRC so pretty much bang on the 1450kg Audi tell us it is. Surprising your car is so hefty, I thought you lost at least 50kg with the chairs? Then another 10kg on the exhaust? Added a little with the IC, and I guess the WMI stuff but still I didnt think you would be that heavy unless you were sitting inside?


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## conneem (Nov 4, 2006)

moncler1 said:


> When weighed my TTRS came out at 1500 Kg.
> 
> Doesn't the automatic version pack a few extra rolls of fat round the midrift?


Adds about 20kg 

SportAuto weighed their test cars, manual was 1,483kg and S-Tronic was 1,502kg,

Their 2009 GT-R weight 1,778kg and their 2011 1,788kg 

They weight their cars with a full tank of fuel.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

moncler1 said:


> When weighed my TTRS came out at 1500 Kg.
> 
> Doesn't the automatic version pack a few extra rolls of fat round the midrift?


I think the weight difference is about 20kg between boxes which is the difference between half a tankish and a quarter.
Relocate the battery to the boot as its easier to pull than push.
Empty your washer fluid out if its that important.
The secret is to get the torque through and out of the box without load shedding..if youve got more engine power than the box can handle, but the TTRS brigade dont have that issue yet. Im trying a different strategy now and in conjunction with Unitronic we will see what limitations the DSG throws up, if any.
Unitronic are States based and don't have any outlets in the UK...yet.
The changes to my engine and DSG ECUs have been encrypted so they can protect their developement.
Steve


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

V6RUL said:


> moncler1 said:
> 
> 
> > When weighed my TTRS came out at 1500 Kg.
> ...


Is yours not a DQ250 box? 320lbft max rated and hence why you have had to carry out all these modifications and strengthening? The DQ500 box in the RS is 600nm max rated (442lbft)

I think the tuners can probably tune within that and control the initial boost spike to keep it within 600nm, if not as you say the box will go into protection and shed some of that off but can the tuner not just simply increase the limit to say 650nm in order to allow more torque or is it not as easy as this? There are of course certain tolerances on all things mechanical so the breaking point is probably more 700-750nm.

Im going in for mine next week so will have a better idea then. LC is getting upped though 3200 is too tame for my liking.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jonnyc said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > As a slight aside, loving the look of your Black TTRS 8).
> ...


Liking it & sounds like a hell of a machine. What does the RT500 package consist of & what other modifcations have you carried out to handle the power?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

hope88 said:


> Wow... this thread is an interesting read...
> 
> I am seriously considering buying a MY10 GTR at the moment but a colleague at work brought me back to reality. To properly maintain this beast costs a small fortune. Although I must say it is a very capable machine. It's really easy to drive fast in it if you have the aids on. The launch control is simply amazing.
> 
> ...


Take a look over at www.gtr.co.uk & you'll see the real running costs of a GT-R


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

The boxes are generally the same. I think the only difference is your box is running 7 gears as opposed to my 6.
Ive replaced the clutch as 430lb/ft is a little too close to the edge for stock as the OEM clutch is rated a lot lower but could withstand a certain amount of power running but would eventually give up. I wouldn't go for the Kevlar as they are for race and are too aggressive. SSP even do 800lb/ft + clutches for the GTR.. :roll: 
Ive also replaced the DMF and clutch basket seals for performance units to be sure of a good starting point with the new clutch. SSP gold box oil as well.
Unitronic write the DSG software for the SSP clutches so there should be a good match there.

I think the only way you can control boost spikes is via an external boost controller..but i dont know how powerfull the ECU is in the MK2 and whether it is capable of such control as in OEM state the box can handle all the power of of an OEM or mildly tuned engine.

Your box is capable of running 600lb/ft but you will of course have to account for that with uprated components.

As your torque delivery is different to mine i would suggest you tell the tuner how you drive/or want to drive and let them give you the best launch rpms for your style.
Steve


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

For Leo: :-*

If nothing else, you're the funniest fellow i've encountered in a while so thanks for that :lol:

The GT-R transmission is a DSG box (are you getting a tad confused) & it's plenty quicker shifting than the 7 speed S-Tronic box in my Audi. How do i know this? because i drive both cars :roll:

Where did i say a stock GT-R did the a 1/4 mile in 11sec?? You is getting confused again me thinks :lol:

Of course i understand power-weight but look at the facts (all i've so far presented you with) & you'll see that it's not a gimme of success. Again look at the cars the GT-R (stock) is quicker than & we can even use you're slightly blinkered yardstick of 0-60 & 0-100 times. How you don't see a lap time round a track (similar drivers & similar conditions) as the measure of true performance baffles me, but seeing some of your postings it really doesn't surprise me.

I'm glad you're struggling with me as it's clear you're no match on any level :-*

Believe me, i've no fascination with you, only a little sympathy for you [smiley=bigcry.gif]


----------



## moncler1 (Sep 28, 2008)

Mitchy said:


> 1450kg manual
> 1475kg S-Tronic
> 
> Some people are adding intercoolers and big brake kits and slowing these things down though :wink:
> ...


It was on an HGV weighbridge, before I changed various parts, with over half a tank and about 20kg of stuff inside.

The seats saved 32Kg, the wheels 16 and the 'big brake' kit is actually a smaller lighter floating disc. so now it should weigh approx 1400 kg no fuel. That's still too heavy for a 'sports' car. Don't think it would be wise to run 1.7bar boost with a std IC. Slower or not.


----------



## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

jamman said:


> I can't wait for the next vbox run I'm sooooo excited


Yer me too I'm ecstatic ,


----------



## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

Paul, same old, same old my friend, we done the insults thing back about 5 pages ago now and have not got anywhere since so there's no point going over the same old ground again and again and again. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Night fella

V6RUL...can you pm me a few musts for the tuning, I'll pass them over and ask them about it when I go in next week. 2 so far, manual mode drop to 1st much lower and LC revs increased.


----------



## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

moncler1 said:


> Mitchy said:
> 
> 
> > 1450kg manual
> ...


Looks like you're taking this tuning lark seriously Rob, thumbs up. 1400kg and 500bhp+ you'll top 190 on
Vmax and leave me about half way down the runway.

Any news on that fuel pump yet? I guess you guys are waiting on this to up the boost a bit?


----------



## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

So Mitchy it's ok for a RS owner ( not necessary u) to say a GTR is quick only cause the gear box and the electronics it has but it seems that u boys with the s- tronic boxes are in the same boat"
Talking about shift times made by a computer and not manually. This post is dead and buried, get it on with Paul and we can all see what is the outcome and congratulate the winner EVEN I'LL PAY £50 to the winner!
Like my original post mentioned I know for sure a manual RS stage 1 will be left for dead against the new GTR end of


----------



## jamiekip (Nov 12, 2006)

vwcheung said:


> I know for sure a manual RS stage 1 will be left for dead against the new GTR end of


Not a chance....

.... Joking :lol:


----------



## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

jamiekip said:


> vwcheung said:
> 
> 
> > I know for sure a manual RS stage 1 will be left for dead against the new GTR end of
> ...


You are funny jamiekip


----------



## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

W7 PMC said:


> For Leo: :-*
> 
> If nothing else, you're the funniest fellow i've encountered in a while so thanks for that :lol:
> 
> ...


 Paul you are class I love your comments


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

My head hurts...so what was the outcome after 16 pages...?

1) Is the GT-R quicker/faster than a TT-RS or not?

2) Is the DSG in a GT-R quicker than the S-Tronic in the TT-RS?

3) How many here care much about which is quickest/fastest?

4) How many of us here can actually exploit the full capabaility of either cars like Patrik - see http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... vdfEVLmVE4 - and still have fun?

5) Does all this on-paper disucssions actually matter or adds any info not already in the public domain?

6) Are the main participants in this dicussions showing their true age - hate to say it but it reminded me of my son and his school friends debating in our back garden whose dad has got the fastest car...everyone knows I have the 'phattest' car though so often no contest there as my son wins that dabate...!!!

Anyway FWIW...I just want to say...lads, thx for the laugh...am off to Le Mans this weekend and after reading this thread, am ready to go burn some rubber on track...hope there is a GT-R and an S-tronic TT-RS on track too...they will simply not go pass me as I will be hogging the 'racing line'...whatever that means... :wink:.

One thing is for sure...I will be having F U N...!


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Mitchy said:


> Paul, same old, same old my friend, we done the insults thing back about 5 pages ago now and have not got anywhere since so there's no point going over the same old ground again and again and again. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
> 
> Night fella
> 
> V6RUL...can you pm me a few musts for the tuning, I'll pass them over and ask them about it when I go in next week. 2 so far, manual mode drop to 1st much lower and LC revs increased.


Where exactly have i thrown any insults? I have an opinion (shared it appears by many others) on you but i've not posted that.

Agreeing to disagree as lifes too short & i have the benefit of a life away from my car :lol:

Let me know when you do come South??


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

996cab said:


> My head hurts...so what was the outcome after 16 pages...?
> 
> 1) Is the GT-R quicker/faster than a TT-RS or not?
> 
> ...


Excellent :lol:

tbh it's been a while since i've entered such an interesting debate (also a little pointless) but as my Forum status states, i had the benefit of too much time on my hands for a couple of days.

Enjoy Le Mans, is a place i've yet to visit, however i'm hoping to get down there next year.


----------



## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

W7 PMC said:


> Where exactly have i thrown any insults?





W7 PMC said:


> . How you don't see a lap time round a track (similar drivers & similar conditions) as the measure of true performance baffles me, but seeing some of your postings it really doesn't surprise me.
> 
> I'm glad you're struggling with me as it's clear you're no match on any level :-*
> 
> Believe me, i've no fascination with you, only a little sympathy for you [smiley=bigcry.gif]





W7 PMC said:


> You truly have no idea & as someone who's obviously on the back foot i'll let you continue to dream your dream & will agree with your co-forum folk in your attitude being narrow & pathetic.
> 
> Handling isn't for you as i suspect you can't manage it. l





W7 PMC said:


> If i read the above post from bottom to top It started me thinking maybe the tales i hear about you are not all bad & then i read your stereotype of a GT-R owner & thought nope, they're all true & you really are as stupid & ignorant as people tell me you are :lol:





W7 PMC said:


> I have an opinion (shared it appears by many others) on you but i've not posted that.
> 
> Agreeing to disagree as lifes too short & i have the benefit of a life away from my car :lol:





W7 PMC said:


> You're right, this thread does indeed prove you don't understand cars or tuning (or at least you come across as though you don't).


Paul, Is this what you do when you're backed into a corner? Does it make you feel big and clever? I wont retaliate though, what's the point in bravery behind a keyboard? At the vmax event, will you come across and say all that to my face? No, I thought not [smiley=thumbsdown.gif] [smiley=whip.gif]

As you have missed this a few times now...



W7 PMC said:


> As i've said 3 times now, i also have an Audi with the 7 speed S-Tronic & it's gear changes are slower than my GT-R. I know this as i drive both cars often so me thinks i hold at least a slender qualification on the subject.












You know when you are wrong, dont dig yourself a bigger hole :wink:

How long do you want to carry this on for? The way i see it, you have hurtled out quite a few derogatories above and I have still yet to retaliate in the same way, it's not me on the back foot buddy. Facts and figures, post away, if not, please refrain from insults and derogatories, it's doing you no favours :-*


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Mitchy said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Where exactly have i thrown any insults?
> ...


Oops, you got me on that one as the quote i assume that's in question (the rest are very tame) should have said "come across as stupid & ignorant". TBH though, it's an opinion shared by many given the number of pm's i've received so perhaps it it true :lol:

Backed into a corner?? Ru having a laugh?? I'm not backed into anything & am fully aware of who's wrong & who's right. I am big & clever though so you're bang on the money with that point :-*

Would i come across to you at VMAX & say what i've said above to your face?? hell yes, but as you say it's not an event you'd attend (or likely be invited to given your growing forum reputation) as you're only interest & experience is 30-150 & Bruntingthorpe requires to take corners at speed.

Please confirm the differences between the TT 3.2 DSG quoted as having the same shift speed as the GT-R & the Golf GTi Direct Shift? It's within the boundries of possibility that i'm mistaken as to the technology of which transmission is the fastest shifting, however as i have both transmissions i know which is faster when driven.

No intention of carrying this debate on though as you're one of those rare breed who's never wrong so it's pointless debating any issue & tbh it's getting boring.

The debate is hotting up on the GT-R forum now as well: http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/154359-ttrs-vs-gt-r.html

Have fun & let's hope we do meet up soon :-*


----------



## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

W7 PMC said:


> Oops, you got me on that one as the quote i assume that's in question (the rest are very tame) should have said "come across as stupid & ignorant". TBH though, it's an opinion shared by many given the number of pm's i've received so perhaps it it true :lol:
> 
> Backed into a corner?? Ru having a laugh?? I'm not backed into anything & am fully aware of who's wrong & who's right. I am big & clever though so you're right on that point :-*
> 
> ...


You have made the point now about 4 or 5 times that other people apparently do not like me on this forum? You keep on coming back to it, like you're trying to group bully your point across :roll: Paul, honestly mate, do you think I care what people say behind my back in a pm to you? Seriously? This is the internet dude, I dont know 1 person on the internet, I have real friends and colleagues in real life, I do not come onto forums to make friends, only post facts and findings. As you have highlighted it 4 or 5 times now, it shows how insecure you are to get other people involved. If someone has a problem with me, they should send me a PM and tell me, they should not be a coward and bitch behind peoples backs. There, we have a few forum cowards bitching, wowzers, how am I going to get to sleep tonight :roll:

You know as well as I do you would not come face to face and tell me I am ignorant and stupid? Why would you do that? Does the GTR stereotype actually have any truth in it? Is that a threat? What do you think happens in real life when you go up to someones face and give them a derogatory like you have clearly said you would do?

Pathetic mate, pathetic.I am not the 1 arguing black is white and hence the screenshot of the shift times.

Btw..the debate on the GTR forum has finished, quite a few people have stated that the TTRS is quite impressive 8)


----------



## rscott4563 (Sep 2, 2010)

Mitchy said:


> Pathetic mate, pathetic.I am not the 1 arguing balck is white and hence the screenshot of the shift times.


Not wanting to get involved in the intricacies of the debate but as I've been reading from the start I would just like to point out that Wikipedia is not, I repeat not the source of all knowledge, especially not 100% accurate knowledge...

Not saying what's being referred to on there right now is wrong but I do hate it when people refer to something they've read on Wiki as the gospel!

Ryan


----------



## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

rscott4563 said:


> Mitchy said:
> 
> 
> > Pathetic mate, pathetic.I am not the 1 arguing balck is white and hence the screenshot of the shift times.
> ...


I agree with you and I did post numerous articles earlier in the discussion as a wiki article is not enough in itself.

Type Nissan GTR 200 milliseconds into google, then type DSG 8 milliseconds into google. Plenty of info on the subject away from wiki :wink:


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Mitchy said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Oops, you got me on that one as the quote i assume that's in question (the rest are very tame) should have said "come across as stupid & ignorant". TBH though, it's an opinion shared by many given the number of pm's i've received so perhaps it it true :lol:
> ...


You didn't answer my question about differences between the TT DSG & Golf GTi transmissions? Also i must have missed other detail about shift times other than the Wiki screenshot (perhaps i missed it).

Don't pretend to know what i would or wouldn't do as you've not the slightest idea & i've no need to threaten anyone, least of all you :-* I've also no interest in what other people think of you, i was merely making a point that certain of my opinions about you appear to be shared (across a few forums), what you do with that information is totally up to you.

If any of my postings appear threatening or offensive then i'll openly apologise.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i too have many times stated the TTRS is an awesome vehicle, but given i've owned TT's & RS's it's not a car that appeals to me, where as the GT-R does.


----------



## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

That's fine Paul, we'll end it there.

Try and get yourself to the next 30-130 event, not that ill be competing with you of course, 600bhp+ is a little too much for a TT but just to give an indication of what your car can do and how it fairs mid range and then you can go on to admire some really really fast cars (Some of the race spec Evos)


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Mitchy said:


> That's fine Paul, we'll end it there.
> 
> Try and get yourself to the next 30-130 event, not that ill be competing with you of course, 600bhp+ is a little too much for a TT but just to give an indication of what your car can do and how it fairs mid range and then you can go on to admire some really really fast cars (Some of the race spec Evos)


Agreed & i'd defo like to go out in both a stock & tuned TTRS  May even try to blag one for a few days from Audi when i can free up some time.

I can switch my car back to very nearly stock at the flick of a switch though 8)


----------



## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

After all this I can honestly say I now feel genuinely embarrassed to own a TTRS..


----------



## Bryn (Feb 12, 2004)

I just subscribed to this topic so I can get the latest update, all this willy waving is highly amusing :lol:


----------



## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

jonnyc said:


> After all this I can honestly say I now feel genuinely embarrassed to own a TTRS..


Nobody's forcing you to come across to this forum from your own, click on this thread, read and then comment but you chose to do so anyway :wink:

I agree though after the dismal display of your manual car at GTI I think you should probably get rid of it, 420 = 500, 1 year wasted, all that hype that led to nothing and to think in about 10 days time i'll have the quickest RS in the country with just a mere remap :wink: (Well 0-100 anyway)

Chill out Jonny, your post is a bit OTT, it's only a car :wink:


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Mitchy said:


> jonnyc said:
> 
> 
> > After all this I can honestly say I now feel genuinely embarrassed to own a TTRS..
> ...


Mitchy you are coming across (quite rightly I'm guessing) as a complete d1ck but the entertainment value is awesome thank you.

Can you not hear the people laughing at you (open the door and listen) :wink:


----------



## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Well Jonny...Because you dont likie Mitchy and he can be a pain in the ass for keeping to facts, then there is no reason for the insult. Beeing a moderator on a similar forum, you should know better than that.

By the way....I just mounted the Loba....now I cant get the EGT past 825C no matter how hard I push.

Cant wait for the mapping....  Then bye bye GT-R's and Porka's!


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

W7 PMC said:


> 996cab said:
> 
> 
> > My head hurts...so what was the outcome after 16 pages...?
> ...


Thx,
will let you know how we get on...also want to do the Ring by end of the year though may take both cars so would be good to see how the GT-R feels on track if you can make that...might see if I can 'encourage' some friends to stop polishing their 'garage queens' and live a little...

BTW, 
the GT-R forum as as bad as this forum...too many lads and no 'Gents'...I blame the education system in this country T B H...


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

Mule said:


> Well Jonny...Because you dont likie Mitchy and he can be a pain in the ass for keeping to facts, then there is no reason for the insult. Beeing a moderator on a similar forum, you should know better than that.
> 
> By the way....I just mounted the Loba....now I cant get the EGT past 825C no matter how hard I push.
> 
> Cant wait for the mapping....  Then bye bye GT-R's and Porka's!


MULE,
have you seen what Patrik has been up to lately on the Ring...?


----------



## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

jamman said:


> Mitchy said:
> 
> 
> > jonnyc said:
> ...


Do you honestly think I give two hoots, this is the internet, get real. To you, I'm just another poster on a computer, you dont know who I am, what I look like, where I live, or what pubs I drink in, I dont know who you are so what skin is it off my nose that you do not like me? Seriously :lol:

I may be a forum d!ck but at least I dont look like a complete d!ck :wink: (See the sarcastic smilies, dont take it to heart)


----------



## leenx (Feb 8, 2010)

Isn't it amazing with what is going on in the world, redunadancy, mass murder, credit crunch, so many of us have so much time on our hands to post endless posts about which car is quicker around a track? Baffles the FEATHERS!!!! out of me


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

jonnyc said:


> After all this I can honestly say I now feel genuinely embarrassed to own a TTRS..


Won't worry too much Sir...these sort of feelings ebb away after a while...BTW, the car is not at fault...I just wish most people will calm down a little...all this speed talk will kill somenbody soon enuf...then what?


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Yep Jonny you are right :wink:


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

leenx said:


> ...Baffles the *woopsie* out of me


Good point however I hope you meant 'feathers' not as highligted...!


----------



## leenx (Feb 8, 2010)

996cab said:


> leenx said:
> 
> 
> > ...Baffles the *woopsie* out of me
> ...


Fixed.... :roll: :lol:


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

leenx said:


> 996cab said:
> 
> 
> > leenx said:
> ...


now that reads better...only pointed it out as I was just thinking more about how you may be judged using those sort of juvenile words... :wink:


----------



## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Mitchy said:


> I agree though after the dismal display of your manual car at GTI I think you should probably get rid of it, 420 = 500, 1 year wasted, all that hype that led to nothing and to think in about 10 days time i'll have the quickest RS in the country with just a mere remap :wink:


Its a dismal display when it suits you.. But when your using it to your advantage trying to win over the GTR boys its a respectable time? The comment I made was no insult, just a reflection of how I feel.

And if your interested.. I ran some more times with my car, ill publish them right after you post yours up :lol:

Mule, your nothing but a vulture.. And your f*cking deluded if you think your going to make anything like 530hp on that turbo!! lol.. Comedy!


----------



## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Mitchy said:


> and to think in about 10 days time i'll have the quickest RS in the country with just a mere remap :wink: (Well 0-100 anyway)


Take a soldering iron and drill mate :wink:


----------



## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Yeees ) I do subscribe to his videos on youtube.

I have two trips to the ring in september. If the traffic and weather permits I will do a sub 7:40 BTG time downthere...

So not impressed but nice videos.



996cab said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> > Well Jonny...Because you dont likie Mitchy and he can be a pain in the ass for keeping to facts, then there is no reason for the insult. Beeing a moderator on a similar forum, you should know better than that.
> ...


----------



## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Thx dude.

It has been flowed to 570hp. So if everything works out as expected 525-530 is my goal.

If I crack the 500 mark, then I would be the first  You didnt....in fact you didnt do a lot of the things posted on Vagoc. So nothing but a second rated product from Revo/Owen. (copycats)

But anyway....lets see how it performs when on the rollers 



jonnyc said:


> Mitchy said:
> 
> 
> > Mule, your nothing but a vulture.. And your f*cking deluded if you think your going to make anything like 530hp on that turbo!! lol.. Comedy!


----------



## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

Jonny, you are right, your quarter mile times from last year were in 1 word, awesome. 420bhp and 3.15 and 11.69 very very impressive. I think it's only right to big up those times.

However, this year with more power it was a let down. Rather than quote your 500 figures, it's better quoting your 420 figures as the new set don't make any sense.

I'll get some figures up as soon as I can and then leave it at that. Most of my posts to you are banter and wind up due to me offering some competition to you in regards to figures. You enjoy it really hence your signature over on vagoc so dont pretend you dont ;-) Dont take offence at them, I'm sure you'll still have the quickest RS in every speed range ;-)

I just thought your post was a little OTT for an argument/discussion that originally started with 2 other RS owners and then onto me when I started bleating on about figures again. It came to an end and then started all over again.

Anyway this thread is over for me. We will do it all again when I post the 7s and then get accused of pushing it off the side of a mountain ;-)


----------



## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

jonnyc said:


> Mitchy said:
> 
> 
> > and to think in about 10 days time i'll have the quickest RS in the country with just a mere remap :wink: (Well 0-100 anyway)
> ...


Looks like they may need to open it up but I've been assured that nothing is soldered to the board. I spoke to them yesterday to be told that some do need to be opened and some dont so we will see. I guess they'll try OBD only and if no joy open up the ecu.

To be honest I'm not fussed, if they replace the tamper bolts and seal then no skin off my nose. Will know more on the day though to what they do exactly. Definitely no solder though, I specifically asked them about that.


----------



## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Mule said:


> Thx dude.
> 
> It has been flowed to 570hp. So if everything works out as expected 525-530 is my goal.
> 
> ...


570hp!!! OMG, its going up!!.. :lol: :lol:

And the car made over 500hp thanks.. Got that one covered.. Copy? Do you work for Loba now?.. You sure sound like them..

Tell you what, post logs of actual boost / RPM / ignition advance / intake temps from 1500rpm to redline (which incidentally was 7700rpm in my car) in 5th gear and then lets settle it with hard facts.. I can assure you that you will eat your words.

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".. Your digging a hole that your going to struggle to get out of.. But my god, will plenty of people, myself included laugh at you trying..


----------



## brittan (May 18, 2007)

Mitchy said:


>


I'm not getting involved in the 'discussion' on here but my last TT was S-Tronic, I had it for over 2 years and I just know that it did not change gear in 8mS. Hell, I'm not sure if even a F1 car changes gear that quick.

I note that the quoted reference is from Wikipedia and of course the entries to that tome are made by people just like you, me and anyone else who thinks they know what they are talking about.

The first 6 cars in the Wikipedia list are all listed at around 200mS to change and those 6 include the TT Quattro 3.2 DSG and the Nissan GTR. Most of the remaining cars listed with quicker gear change times are Ferraris and tacked on the end are the Bugatti and Golf with unrealistically quick change times.

I trawled through 80+ pages of the Audi service training document quoted below to find only one reference to the speed of gear change and that is quoted below.


Service Training

6-speed twin-clutch gearbox 02E (S tronic)
Self-Study Programme 386

*Note*
A normal gearshift is completed
within approx. 200 ms.
However, very low temperatures
prolong gearshifts due to the higher
viscosity of the gearbox oil and the
associated increase in the reaction
time of the hydraulic control system.

Interesting also to find some information on the operation of the S-Tronic box which I doubt most people have even heard of. For example if you cycle the selector rapidly between 'D' and 'R' (eg when trying to rock the car out of mud/snow) the next start off forward will be in 2nd gear. Applying the brakes cancels this mode.


----------



## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

Brittan normal gearshift is done in about 200ms for sure. However, it is much quicker than that on WOT. 200ms or 0.2secs is flat shift manual quick.

There are no 200ms segments in my graphs, hard evidence, you can't even pick up the change actually.

Type dsg shift time into google, there's far more than just wiki ;-)


----------



## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Why so harsh? I dont work for Loba, but I prefer 1st class products.

I ahvent seen any proof of 500+ from you Jonny. In fact you ran out of fuel at 490....

So dont pretend to be the funny guy. You must be worried that we do something that you cannot. Like we have done before...

My intake temps are 4-6 above ambient in 5th WOT.

By the way...the only guy who HASNT posted any logging is you... for whatever reason.

So I am confident that we will get very close to 500 on OEM fuel pump because Revo is doing it all wrong.

So Jonny....the only hole that has been digged is yours. And it gets deeper every day that you show this arrogant attitude towards other people and the fact that they perhapos know something you dont 



jonnyc said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> > Thx dude.
> ...


----------



## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

My arrogance only mirrors your own, open your eyes 

I know I know more than you know thats why I know that you dont know things that I know.. If you know what I mean?


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

jonnyc said:


> My arrogance only mirrors your own, open your eyes
> 
> I know I know more than you know thats why I know that you dont know things that I know.. If you know what I mean?


 :lol: :lol:


----------



## jonnyc (Feb 13, 2010)

Edited lol..


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

jonnyc said:


> Edited lol..


Same here :lol:


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

Mule said:


> Yeees ) I do subscribe to his videos on youtube.
> 
> I have two trips to the ring in september. If the traffic and weather permits I will do a sub 7:40 BTG time downthere...
> 
> ...


OK Thx...if all goes well I am looking to be there on Saturday Sept 15th...let me know which dates you will be there and I may come over for one of those days...

BTW, thought you were making the GTi Inters this year...change of plans?


----------



## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

No I was on crutches with a bad knee.

I am there from 16th-19th.

15th is thursday...



996cab said:


> OK Thx...if all goes well I am looking to be there on Saturday Sept 15th...let me know which dates you will be there and I may come over for one of those days...
> 
> BTW, thought you were making the GTi Inters this year...change of plans?


----------



## alloy (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm at the ring in the GTR on the 16th Sept 

Enjoying even seeing you TT-RS owners bitching at each other.....comical!


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Come over and I will see if I can keep up 



alloy said:


> I'm at the ring in the GTR on the 16th Sept
> 
> Enjoying even seeing you TT-RS owners bitching at each other.....comical!


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## ChinsVXR (Apr 14, 2006)

On the subject of VAG cars and shift speeds 

I have a VW with 7 speed DSG and my 7 speed TTRS with Stronic. Previous to that in the VAG stable was the 6 speed DSG in a Golf R.

My 7 speed VW is sloowwww in comparison to the Golf and TTRS. So surely different applications have faster times? Not sure which Stronic Paul is driving, but is it correct to compare with the TTRS box? I would of hoped the TTRS box was an improvement over the 6 speed boxes fitted in older TT's ?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Mule said:


> Yeees ) I do subscribe to his videos on youtube.
> 
> I have two trips to the ring in september. If the traffic and weather permits I will do a sub 7:40 BTG time downthere...
> 
> ...


What car will you be doing this 7:40 BTG time in?

Best i managed was an 8:29 in my Audi B7 RS4 during my attendance at Scuderia Hanseat a couple of years ago. The Nordschleife was closed to the public so traffic wasn't a major issues as attendees of the same course were the only people on track. This is also after around 160 laps in total so i'm fairly confident on the track & lines etc.

Look at the times below as to pull off a 7:40 BTG you must have fully mastered the Ring & are driving one hell of a machine.

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

These times are full laps so a BTG would be circa 17 seconds less.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

ChinsVXR said:


> On the subject of VAG cars and shift speeds
> 
> I have a VW with 7 speed DSG and my 7 speed TTRS with Stronic. Previous to that in the VAG stable was the 6 speed DSG in a Golf R.
> 
> My 7 speed VW is sloowwww in comparison to the Golf and TTRS. So surely different applications have faster times? Not sure which Stronic Paul is driving, but is it correct to compare with the TTRS box? I would of hoped the TTRS box was an improvement over the 6 speed boxes fitted in older TT's ?


My Audi is a Q5 with the 7 speed S-Tronic & the same 211ps engine as the TT's (& many other VAG models).


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

The TTRS and a full lap is 24 seconds less.

I allready did a 7.58 BTG lap with a completely wrong wheel/tire combo.

So not much grip and some loss of time due to traffic. Pffuchser came pretty close on a lap. He did 7.40 BTG on Dunlop Direzza's in a TTRS on a trackday downthere. A little easier when having open pitlane.



W7 PMC said:


> What car will you be doing this 7:40 BTG time in?
> 
> Best i managed was an 8:29 in my Audi B7 RS4 during my attendance at Scuderia Hanseat a couple of years ago. The Nordschleife was closed to the public so traffic wasn't a major issues as attendees of the same course were the only people on track. This is also after around 160 laps in total so i'm fairly confident on the track & lines etc.
> 
> ...


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## conneem (Nov 4, 2006)

W7 PMC said:


> ChinsVXR said:
> 
> 
> > On the subject of VAG cars and shift speeds
> ...


That is the DL501 in the Q5 vs DQ500 that is used in the TTRS, the one in the Q5 is suited for longitudinal layouts. I don't know how different they are in shift time but they are physically very different.

The 7 speed used in the Golf is the DQ250 for low torque models. The GTI/R still use the 6 speed DSG 

So I don't know about their shift times but while they are all 7 speed dsg's, they are 3 different gearboxes


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

Mule said:


> No I was on crutches with a bad knee.
> 
> I am there from 16th-19th.
> 
> ...


Yes so the 15th is...not sure why I had it down as a Saturday...anyway, I will plan for the Saturday of 17th then...should be fun...will PM nearer the date.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Mule said:


> The TTRS and a full lap is 24 seconds less.
> 
> I allready did a 7.58 BTG lap with a completely wrong wheel/tire combo.
> 
> ...


That would be an impressive lap given the best time for a stock TTRS with a Pro driver is 8:09 for a full lap so 7:45 give or take for BTG.

What mods are you running on your TTRS & what set-up to try for that time?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

conneem said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > ChinsVXR said:
> ...


I'd be interested to know the differences. Isn't DL501 better than DQ500 as it's 1 number higher?

Just kidding as i've no idea on the differences, but i'd have assumed it likely to be more around software than hardware.


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

you lot are so gay


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Gay VULTURES it is 

And I will be running a 19" wheel with either 265/30/19 or 245/35/19....hasnt decided yet.



TTRS_500 said:


> you lot are so gay


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

Mule said:


> Gay VULTURES it is
> 
> And I will be running a 19" wheel with either 265/30/19 or 245/35/19....hasnt decided yet.
> 
> ...


Do they even have vultures in Europe? I know they have vultures in the caribbean, but I dont think they would get away with being gay


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## hope88 (Mar 25, 2011)

Mule said:


> Gay VULTURES it is
> 
> And I will be running a 19" wheel with either 265/30/19 or 245/35/19....hasnt decided yet.
> 
> ...


What only a 19"? And whats up with the width? 265 is far too narrow...you need be be rocking at least 325/30/21s on a TTRS... The recommended is to go staggered.... 325/30/21 in the front and a slightly wider 365/30/21 in the rear.

Jeez some people need to L2tyre. :?


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

The current setup allows 285/30/19 on the car but I cant find a wheel to match. So I need to compromise on that unfortunately.


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## hope88 (Mar 25, 2011)

Mule said:


> The current setup allows 285/30/19 on the car but I cant find a wheel to match. So I need to compromise on that unfortunately.


pfft.... you must feel very inadequate then :lol:


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Nope...annoyed is the word.



hope88 said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> > The current setup allows 285/30/19 on the car but I cant find a wheel to match. So I need to compromise on that unfortunately.
> ...


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## hope88 (Mar 25, 2011)

On a serious note though...should be no problem finding a wheel for that rubber but you might be looking at some aggressive offsets.


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

10x19 ET55 is the thing I am looking for, but with room for RS6 V10 brakes spokewise.

So its not easy peasy! 9,5x19 is no more than 275/30/19 i think....9,5x19 should have at least ET53



hope88 said:


> On a serious note though...should be no problem finding a wheel for that rubber but you might be looking at some aggressive offsets.


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