# A whole new way of driving.



## Kell (May 28, 2002)

I had to drive to Leeds for a meeting yesterday and, because I left in plenty of time, decided to do the whole journey on cruise control (as much as was practical) and set it at 70.

Now, as some may know, I've been somewhat dissapointed by the economy of our Beemer and felt that 28mpg was pretty poor as an overall figure for the car. Obviously, I've always known that this was down to driving style combined with an auto box.

I seem to be making a short story long, so I'll just share the fact that on the journey I averaged 39.7 mpg (according to comp) and that the overall mpg since last time it was reset (don't know when) came up to 32+.

And to be honest, on the way up it was a much more relaxing drive, but then I put that down to the fact the road was pretty empty rather than the speed I was doing. Coming back, it was much harder to make real use of the cruise because of the traffic.

Compared to going home (with a fully loaded car at Christmas) when I got 24mpg it's pretty good.


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## J55TTC (Apr 25, 2005)

Oh god, my constant attempt to prove cruise control less efficient in the mk1 forum today is again going to get me laughed at. - Its my story and Im sticking to it :lol:

Glad to hear of your improved efficiency but it is down to your usual aggressive driving style - right? :wink:


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

J55TTC said:


> Oh god, my constant attempt to prove cruise control less efficient in the mk1 forum today is again going to get me laughed at. - Its my story and Im sticking to it :lol:
> 
> Glad to hear of your improved efficiency but it is down to your usual aggressive driving style - right? :wink:


It's down to the fact that I would normally travel faster than that and because you naturally try and catch up cars in front or make gaps so you're constantly booting it and slowing down.

I'd imagine in most instances cruise would give you better fuel economy - providing you can leave it set for long enough.

You can use the stalk on ours to go up and down in increments of 5mph so if you're getting too close to the car in front you pull back on the stalk and it would drop (in this instance) to 65. But then on the way back up to 70, it invariably drops a gear and gets there quickly. Not only is this annoying enough for me to stick the car in manual most of the time it's on cruise, I'd imagine the fuel economy goes down.

I'd have to try the same journey again but stick to 70 and no cruise to compare.


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## sonicmonkey (Mar 20, 2004)

I'm surprised at the 28 mpg average as I remember reading Clarksons report on the 530D and how it refused to get under 40 mpg even when driven hard (SEE HERE) .

I guess factoring in the size and weight of the car and the larger six cylinder engine I wouldn't expect it to achieve the manufactures mpg claims but an average of 12 mpg less (when looking at BMW's 41 mpg combined) would be call for [smiley=bomb.gif]

Continue feathering the throttle Kell or cover the trip computer up with gaffer tape and the pain will go away. Overall I still think you've got the best combination of engine/practicality/goodies/driver orientated chassis and factoring those in mpg in the 30ish region is actually very good.


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## drjam (Apr 7, 2006)

No idea what effect cruise vs. not cruise has (surely you can adjust your speed gently yourself for the same effect?), but I've certainly discovered that slowing down even 5-10mph on the motorway (and certainly 15-20mph) makes a huge difference to economy. Basically anything over 60 and the mpg starts going down at a fair old rate.


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## senwar (Apr 21, 2003)

I use cruise regularly on my 2 hour journey to my parents.

Stick it on at 70, (reduce to 50 where necessary) and probably 80 miles of the 100 mile journey is via cruise.

It certainly increases my efficiency - I get about 30mpg out of mine for that run. Normal day to day driving I do well to get 21mpg.

I remember the salesman laughing at me speccing cruise in an M. But its for both efficiency on long runs and the knowledge I'm sticking to the limit in unknown territory


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

My usual commute to work average 31-32mpg.

Trips to my folks (taking it easy, mixed motorway / B roads) an easy 35mpg which is superb for the engine size (not that i bought it for economy but it helps)

James


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

I use CC whenever conditions permit - and it is more often than not on motorway driving. It takes out stress keeps, up average speeds, and, providing speed ste is optimal (ie higher rather than lower on the torque curve) is beneficial to economy. Having speed set too low can actually have negative effect on ecomony as engine labours, or unnecessarily kick downs with some autos. BMW automatic gearboxes seem to carry a 10-15% econmy hit over manuals with sam engines, although i think the latest lci autos are more efficient.

I set mine at 84mph speedo (true 81mph gps) and this brings 38 mpg each 1000 dis refresh reset. It also allows you to make progress without either standing out too much, or catching up with other traffic so quickly that you feel impeded and allow any frustration to creep in, or your actual speed to creep up. It's also perfect for restricted 50 mph zones.

The e46 steering wheel thumb controls to +/- speed and engage/re-engage cruise speed a work far better than the stalk based systems on Audis or new BMWs, and make it far more intuitive to use CC as a driver aid. That would be one negative of the e90 BMW 320d i recently used - it was all too easy to flash the car in front with main beam when trying to slow CC setting.


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## sonicmonkey (Mar 20, 2004)

For my commute I use a Peugeot 306 turbo diesel which averages 45-50 mpg and that's on country B roads 

Have to say I'm very impressed with the Boxsters consumption, averaging 32-36 mpg with mixed driving when driven well within the legal limits. When compared to my R32, I averaged around 18-22 mpg for the same sized engine over 10,000 miles. I was convinced I had a petrol leak!


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## drjam (Apr 7, 2006)

Slightly off the mpg topic, but out of interest what do you all do with your right foot when on cruise? 
The TT doesn't have cruise but father-in-law's merc does and I found I was still leaving my right foot hovering over the pedals because if I pulled it away and rested it, I was worried about my ability to hit the brake should an emergency arise. So I didn't actually find it any more relaxing to drive with cruise on.
(But that same car has the option to turn cruise to a speed limiter instead - now that I _did _find useful, especially in those specs-monitored 50mph zones.)


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## jbell (May 15, 2006)

sonicmonkey said:


> Have to say I'm very impressed with the Boxsters consumption, averaging 32-36 mpg with mixed driving when driven well within the legal limits.


My fathers Boxster is the same, good on the juice. My neighbour has a 997 Turbo and came down last week with the cruise on 85 and averaged 36mpg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

drjam said:


> Slightly off the mpg topic, but out of interest what do you all do with your right foot when on cruise?


Usually leave mine on the accelerator in traffic and often tuck it by the seat when the road's clear.



garyc said:


> I set mine at 84mph speedo (true 81mph gps) and this brings 38 mpg each 1000 dis refresh reset. It also allows you to make progress without either standing out too much, or catching up with other traffic so quickly that you feel impeded and allow any frustration to creep in, or your actual speed to creep up. It's also perfect for restricted 50 mph zones.


Bizarrely, 84 is the exact speed I'd normally set the cruise at - only this time, the sat nav was telling me I'd be there an hour and a half really early, so I thouight I'd try a leisurely drive at 70 and stop for a coffee outside of Leeds.

Can't say I'd do it all the time, but it is a less stressful way to drive (on the way up) and it's interesting (for me, anyway) how often you can have someone come haring past you one minute, only to pass them again two minutes later despite not touching the accelerator at all.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

I have the same scenario as i'm in theory running the most economical RS4 in the world :lol:

To keep the story short, my DIS over circa 10,000 miles is showing an average of 23.7MPG  however most struggle to even see the high teens, but in my varied mix of driving, the bulk of the miles are 220 mile drives from Hants - Lancs & i in the main set the cruise to a GPS reading of 76MPH so this keeps my average up. Needless to say this also means the car although only 15 months old, is carrying a mileage of 31000 

All good fun miles though & it shows to a point that even vehicles on the lower rungs of the fuel economy ladder can return half decent figures if driven sedately 8) Of course not the heady levels of you heavy oil drivers.

As a slight aside, have you considered a re-map, as my 535d got a good 3-5MPG lift after it's DMS fettle.


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

I've just recorded a best ever 21.2 for my daily drag of 30 miles m.may and busy A roads, i haven't needed the aircon this week


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

BAMTT said:


> I've just recorded a best ever 21.2 for my daily drag of 60 miles m.may and busy A roads, i haven't needed the aircon this week


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Kell - I read this post at the weekend and decided to test the theory to see if it worked. As you know I have been hovering around the 40mpg mark give or take a .1 or so and don't seem to better it unless I drive like Miss Daisy. I usally go at about 80-85mph on the motorway, but for the past three days though I have stuck to the 70mph limit religiously, which means I'm not speeding up and slowing down overtaking cars and getting stuck in queues. Now bearing in mind I don't have CC, I have been happy see my avg MPG rise to a level 42.4mpg.










I've been looking at getting the CC retrofitted, but at nearly £1200 there's not really any point, but it would be interesting to know what I could get with CC.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

You didn't spec the m/function wheel ? I thought it was a bargain.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

wallsendmag said:


> You didn't spec the m/function wheel ?


When I bought the car I lived a mile from where I worked, and I had no immediate plans to change job. So the car was just a weekend fun toy where Cruise wasn't required.


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## RK07 (Jul 31, 2007)

Just a quick 2p from me on this. Whenever I return a customer their own vehicle I always look at their average mpg ad try to beat it - I always think that this assures the customer that their car has been treated with respect.

Two main ones stand out, an R8 achieved 27mpg over a 60 mile run at the speed limit (without cruise) and an A8 4.2TDI long wheel base achieved 37.8mpg over approximately 200 miles - with cruise.

Flyboyben's 3.2 TT got just under 35mpg but that was rush hour on a dual track so not at a constant speed.


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

My BM 520d averages about 42, my commute is 10 miles of dual carriageway followed by 2 miles of extremely minor roads. But that is only because I drive carefully. If I drive normally on the same run it averages 35. However with Miss Daisy asleep in the back I can average over 53 on a run. (All according to the on-board computer). On a recent trip to Florence of about 4000 miles the old girl averaged 43.4mpg, which I thought wasn't bad for a loaded-up 5 Series.

On the subject of Cruise control, I believe that I can drive smoother and maintain speed more economically than the CC, although I have no figures to prove this.

KELL...

The cruise control only jumps to speeds that are multiples of 5mph if you pull or push hard on the lever, more gentle use gives single mph variations. I actually find this feature quite useful, especially through lower speed limits; See speed limit sign, hit the cruise control button and flick back as many times as necessary. For instance, you are travelling at 66 mph and approach a 50 mph limit. Engaging cruise control at 66mph, pull back on the lever once drops to 65mph (the first multiple of 5 lower than the current speed, a second time to 60, a third to 55 and a final one for 50. Oh dear, I've made this seem far more complicated than it is!


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## sandhua1978 (Sep 11, 2006)

Having driven a number of BMW 3.0 diesels I have to say that generally their fair better on Motorway journeys, and under 80mph.

Round town they do tend to drink quite a bit a therefore the MPG usually suffers as a result.

on

a *330d (e46)* - used to average about 36mpg. On a full tank 55litres you could get 500 miles plus out of tank on the motorway. 
got up to 600 miles on a tank when after it had been serviced and when i tried to drive sensibly. :roll:

*x5 3.0d* - average was around 27mpg. though would go up to around 34mpg on motorways. 
95 litre tank which would give you 550-650 miles on a good run. 
*335d* - Trip computer said 32mpg but there was more of a tendency to put your foot down more in this one!  
Have been able to get 40mpg when you are sensible.
Again 55 litre tank and on a motorway run can usually push 450-500 miles on a tank though it was due a service.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

ag said:


> KELL...
> 
> The cruise control only jumps to speeds that are multiples of 5mph if you pull or push hard on the lever, more gentle use gives single mph variations. I actually find this feature quite useful, especially through lower speed limits; See speed limit sign, hit the cruise control button and flick back as many times as necessary. For instance, you are travelling at 66 mph and approach a 50 mph limit. Engaging cruise control at 66mph, pull back on the lever once drops to 65mph (the first multiple of 5 lower than the current speed, a second time to 60, a third to 55 and a final one for 50. Oh dear, I've made this seem far more complicated than it is!


I know - this is what I tend to do.

Unfortunately with ours there seems to be about a gnat's cock between a click and an integer of 5 and pushing gently and getting it to go up in single units.


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## jam225 (Jun 24, 2003)

RK07 said:


> Just a quick 2p from me on this. Whenever I return a customer their own vehicle I always look at their average mpg ad try to beat it - I always think that this assures the customer that their car has been treated with respect.
> 
> Two main ones stand out, an R8 achieved 27mpg over a 60 mile run at the speed limit (without cruise) and an A8 4.2TDI long wheel base achieved 37.8mpg over approximately 200 miles - with cruise.
> 
> Flyboyben's 3.2 TT got just under 35mpg but that was rush hour on a dual track so not at a constant speed.


 :roll: The R8 is now averaging 16.9 MPG :twisted: Your efforts were greatly appreciated Matthew, the next time I'll take it easy through to Aberdeen and see if I can beat your record


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## RK07 (Jul 31, 2007)

jam225 said:


> RK07 said:
> 
> 
> > Just a quick 2p from me on this. Whenever I return a customer their own vehicle I always look at their average mpg ad try to beat it - I always think that this assures the customer that their car has been treated with respect.
> ...


I have one R8 customer averaging 14mpg :lol:

Your one came back with 26mpg if I remember correctly. It was the one from past Huntly that got 27mpg and that was without cruise  To be fair his car had done 6000 hard miles, had been fitted with new tyres all round and was owned at the time by a chap who was an ex rally driver!


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## jam225 (Jun 24, 2003)

RK07 said:


> I have one R8 customer averaging 14mpg :lol:
> 
> Your one came back with 26mpg if I remember correctly. It was the one from past Huntly that got 27mpg and that was without cruise  To be fair his car had done 6000 hard miles, had been fitted with new tyres all round and was owned at the time by a chap who was an ex rally driver!


 :roll: Yikes


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

This driving at a constant 70mph lark is still working. It's up to nearly 43mpg now.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

We filled up last Sunday used the car all week then a trip to Mansfield and back on one tank.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Righty then - as I said previously in this thread my MPG return has creeped up from around 39mpg average to the 42.4mpg average I have been getting after adopting Kell's driving style on the motorway. So, I decided to take it one step further and stick to the speed limits on ALL parts of my daily slog to work, whilst driving completely passively e.g. not overtaking unless required (lorries on motorways for example) etc.

The reuslts have been staggering as the average MPG has risen to nearly 46mpg! Not bad for a car that has nearly 200bhp! 










I must admit that on the odd occasion it has been a bit frustrating (i'll get used to it though), but by driving this way means I only add a few minutes to my daily slog, but most of all I manage to preserve nearly a whole journeys worth of fuel in my tank each week&1/2, thus cutting my bills for the month by a substantial amount! Not bad considering it's not a journey that allows me to have any fun or 'spirited' driving, it's just a 'required journey' each day.

I had been looking at old 1 & 3 Series Diesels for the slog, but with the price of Diesel the Mini is actually outperforming them all in the economy stakes (even using the usual V-Power) and it's a hell of a lot more fun when I want it to be!

Thanks Kell 8)


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Over the last 5000 miles in my Mondeo 2.2 TDCI :

38 mpg average on my 40 mile round trip commute to work, local, then A & B roads, 'normal' driving.

up to 43 mpg if I keep the revs between 1250 - 2000 and use a light right foot.

up to 50 mpg on a run with the cruise on and not exceeding 70 mph.

about 38 mpg on a fast cruise over distance at 85 mph (where legal..)

Have reset the average mpg on the 'dis' a couple of times over the last 5000 miles, settles down to about 39 mpg average.

The cruise is easy to use, it has speed + & - using buttons on the steering wheel, cancel/resume last set speed function, and you can increment in 1 mph intervals. But there can be a bit of lag / overun when adjusting the car speed with the buttons. I've found that rather than 'clicking' the button each time, it's best to keep your finger on it pressed until you reach desired speed, as the system updates and holds you at the set speed, once you take your finger off 

The Monaro has different controls - twist knob for speed up and down on the right hand stalk, with activate/de-activate on a push button on the end of the stalk. I prefer this method to be honest, 1mph increments either way are available with one momentary twist (or click) of the knob and there is no delay or lag with the speed setting.

The Monaro averages about 18 mpg in the UK  but on a recent fast trip on the continent, using cruise, and quite often a heavy right foot, it averaged 23 mpg


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

> To keep the story short, my DIS over circa 10,000 miles is showing an average of 23.7MPG


You must be doing a lot of motorway driving then. My average on my Cayman S after 19,450 miles is 22.3 mpg!!!

I have seen 34mpg as well (33 mile trip to Heathrow airport from Hants) but I was sooooooooooo gentle on the throtle and driving around 70mph. Boring things really. :roll:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> Righty then - as I said previously in this thread my MPG return has creeped up from around 39mpg average to the 42.4mpg average I have been getting after adopting Kell's driving style on the motorway. So, I decided to take it one step further and stick to the speed limits on ALL parts of my daily slog to work, whilst driving completely passively e.g. not overtaking unless required (lorries on motorways for example) etc.
> 
> The reuslts have been staggering as the average MPG has risen to nearly 46mpg! Not bad for a car that has nearly 200bhp!
> 
> ...


Think I passed a young fogey dawdling at 70mph i n Mini westbound from chip yesterday 5.45pm ish?

Only trouble is those grooves in the tarmac on inside.

I am still running at 37.5mpg dis and this include a Glasgow/Bristol/glasgow fast (90mph wher poss), run last week, loaded to the gunwhales with kit.

Stalk or buttons is question. i like to press the buttons rather than tweak the stalks. Far more intuitive.


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> Righty then - as I said previously in this thread my MPG return has creeped up from around 39mpg average to the 42.4mpg average I have been getting after adopting Kell's driving style on the motorway. So, I decided to take it one step further and stick to the speed limits on ALL parts of my daily slog to work, whilst driving completely passively e.g. not overtaking unless required (lorries on motorways for example) etc.
> 
> The reuslts have been staggering as the average MPG has risen to nearly 46mpg! Not bad for a car that has nearly 200bhp!
> 
> ...





garyc said:


> Think I passed a young fogey dawdling at 70mph i n Mini westbound from chip yesterday 5.45pm ish?
> 
> Only trouble is those grooves in the tarmac on inside.
> 
> ...


If the buttons on the Mondeo reacted on the press 'on' rather than lift 'off' then maybe. I don't like lifting my fingers away from the wheel rim - with the Monaro you just twiddle with your fingers on the stalks and the job is done 

Kev- You do seem to be getting some good figures from the Mini. I wonder how self-diciplined you'll be though with 200 bhp available, I think you'll may get tired of it after a while. When working in Docklands London I tried running into work at exactly the speed limit on cruise and using the inside and middle lanes only overtaking to pass lorries - got a few extra mpg but those lorry ruts are a pain and I only lasted a few days :roll:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

garyc said:


> 37.5mpg dis and this include a Glasgow/Bristol/glasgow fast (90mph wher poss), run last week, loaded to the gunwhales with kit.
> 
> Stalk or buttons is question. i like to press the buttons rather than tweak the stalks. Far more intuitive.


If the buttons on the Mondeo reacted on the press 'on' rather than lift 'off' then maybe. I don't like lifting my fingers away from the wheel rim - with the Monaro you just twiddle with your fingers on the stalks and the job is done 

Kev- You do seem to be getting some good figures from the Mini. I wonder how self-diciplined you'll be though with 200 bhp available, I think you'll may get tired of it after a while. When working in Docklands London I tried running into work at exactly the speed limit on cruise and using the inside and middle lanes only overtaking to pass lorries - got a few extra mpg but those lorry ruts are a pain and I only lasted a few days :roll:[/quote]

E46 buttons are all reachable with right thumb without moving hands from wheel rim. You get + and - giving 3kph for one click, and the engage/disengage is just inside the +/-. I find this far easier tha the current Audi/BMw stalks where it is easy to flash the lights when you really wanted to just slow the cruise rate, so close are the two stalks.









Are easy to operate.









Less obvious in operation.









Ditto Audi

On KMPs consumption rates, if you have to drive a 200hp car that gives 40mpg pnly by dint of driving as if one has an eggsheel under right foot, it sort of defeats the object of having it in first place. I appreciate that it is an interesting exercise , but as Paul suggests, it may do you head in after a while. Try the same at 78mph cruise. Or get Mini diesel. :idea: :wink:


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

RE Gary's point about flashing the car in front. I've done it on numerous occasions by accident on the motorway. It's just a simple oversight but I do wonder what the people in front think (probably w*nker in a BMW).

With regard to the speed/ing issue. It depends on your journey. My original point was that if you're not in a hurry and the roads are clear, it's a very relaxed way to travel. The MPG was almost a by-product of that.

As I mentioned though, the drvie back down was far more frought and opens the debate about whether or not you're actually 'safer' by travelling more quickly and avoiding getting tangled up in the lorries.

However, on journies like commutes where you can't really have any fun because of the car in front, then it's a worthwhile exercise.


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

I'm quite happy to admit that I used to cruise at about 85mph on the clock on dual carriageways and motorways (where legal) and felt that that was a reasonable speed. It did occur to me on more than one occasion that although I was never the fastest car on the road I was often having to adjust my speed due to other road users. This meant backing off and accelerating. I decided to see what happened if I cruised a little slower and tried to stay at the same speed as the bulk of road users. This works, unless a truck travelling at 58mpg is trying to overtake another travelling at 56mph, and using a road speed of about 65mph on a dual carriageway and 75mph on a motorway reduces the stress without substantially (noticably) increasing journey times. Better fuel economy is a bonus, but the reduced wear and tear on the vehicle is probably even more significant from a cost saving point of view.

The reality is that on long trips the dual carriageways and motorways are generally quicker. They are also incredibly boring and monotonous so you may as well take ten minutes extra and save the gas and car for better roads.

(Or buy a motorcycle)


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> Think I passed a young fogey dawdling at 70mph i n Mini westbound from chip yesterday 5.45pm ish?


Not me fella- I'm home by that time. 30 mins door to door.



PaulS said:


> Only trouble is those grooves in the tarmac on inside.


To be honest I was very wary of this happening when I started the experiment, but due to the amount of lorries and vans on the road I spend 95% of the time in the middle lane overtaking and only have to venture into lane 1 now and again.



garyc said:


> On KMPs consumption rates, if you have to drive a 200hp car that gives 40mpg pnly by dint of driving as if one has an eggsheel under right foot, it sort of defeats the object of having it in first place. I appreciate that it is an interesting exercise , but as Paul suggests, it may do you head in after a while. Try the same at 78mph cruise. Or get Mini diesel. :idea: :wink:


I guess I should point out that I'm only driving like this on my dull commute each day. The commute is a required journey where there is no place to have any fun, so I don't see the point of burning my money on a journey that gives me no reward. It means I appreciate the car more when I do get to have fun in it.


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## gcp (Aug 8, 2002)

garyc said:


> Stalk or buttons is question. i like to press the buttons rather than tweak the stalks. Far more intuitive.


Me too, seems a backward step adding a stalk, as if air re-circulating is needed more often :?


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