# V6, 3.2ltr 241BHP TT Announced in Germany



## Jae (May 6, 2002)

Hot of the German press, from Ingolstadt, as printed in Abend Zeitung, Munich, today! In my best german translation...

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From December: Coupe and Roadster with 241 PS V6 Engine

*Ingolsatdt* Mercedes Benz has the SLK improved, Porsche the Boxster revised and BMW has this year announced the completely new Z4 Roadster : they could not stand and watch. So what Audi have done to is to launch in December 2002, a new TT at the Bologna Motor Show.

The new features are available in both the Coupe and Roadster variants, a new top model in the form of the 241 PS (BHP) powerful 3.2 liter V6 from the VW Phaeton. With the six cylinder engine note comes the 6 speed gear box and permanent 4 wheel drive.

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Obviously, the question remains, is it coming to the UK?

There you have it folks, lets see how Audi UK react!

Jae


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2002)

Wouldn't this engine be a lot heavier for such a small increase in power? Doesn't look like we are missing out on a lot compared to the current 2002 UK spec.


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## Jae (May 6, 2002)

Ah, this may be true, but what you will be getting is a far smoother torque range, and better power delivery, and above all, a sweater note to the engine!


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## Dubcat (Jun 10, 2002)

I have ordered a TT which is expected to arrive in late August.

Do you guys think im better off swapping to the new one? Is it now a mistake to buy the 1.8 engine TT? I am really confused - hope you folks can share your opinions...

Photoniq


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2002)

Think I'll have to go over to the show in December and have a look at this baby


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## NIIK_TT (May 7, 2002)

Excellent news....

I reckon judging by the success of the TT in the UK it wont be too long before its available here. Lets hope so


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## vagman (Sep 6, 2002)

That's a result.

I'll be ordering a new TT in Jan for April 03 delivery, so looks like it will be perfect timing. 8)

Or will it???


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## Mackem (May 22, 2002)

..........launch in December 2002, a new TT at the Bologna Motor Show.

Really! I think it's a load of old old boloney ;D


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

The V6 on the Phaeton delivers 237bhp....so I guess they tuned the engine higher to get the extra 4 bhp to 241.

Another problem will be the weight distribution. The TT has already most of the weight in the front and this will make the problems worst. Are they going to fit a bigger spoiler on the back to improve drag or change the suspension?

Also the bigger engine may give more torque but with the extra weight I don't think the TT will be able to go a lot faster that does now. I would expect the torque to be close to 240lb/ft using a guideline the Phaeton engine.


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## Denny (Jul 1, 2002)

Am new to you UK Forum guys, so you don't know that I have access to searching most of the international press on my computer .. lexis/nexis, etc. Conducted a search and found no mention of this article....but, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist...will continue to see if there is any merit to this report.


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## Jae (May 6, 2002)

Here is the article, click link to view in full.
http://www.********.co.uk/images/all article.jpg
http://www.********.co.uk/images/article%20thumb.jpg


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## J1WEY (May 7, 2002)

???
I thought when the V6 varient surfaced before Audi insisted they couldn't fit the V6 into a right hand version. I wouldn't get your hopes up just yet.


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## Jae (May 6, 2002)

The V6 engine delivers the following:

3.2 Liters
241 PS / 177kW Power
315 Nm Torque


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

I guess it's a better base to work from for tuning purposes than the 1.8T. At the moment though I would think that the majority of the expertise out there is on tuning the 1.8T and not the VAG V6. Anyone know if MTM, AMD, etc are developing remaps, big turbos, etc for this beast.
I wonder whether the V6 TT will have uprated brakes, exhaust (to take advantage of the V6 sound ;D), etc.


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

If the ultimate bhp power output is similar I've always preferred NA engines to turbo's as the power delivery is far more linear, torquey and immediate.

If Audi have deccided to increase the BHP of the TT, *an extra 16bhp is pathetic, IMO*

Can't they come up with anything better?

Will need to get mine chipped next year for definite.


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## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

I would imagine that the V6 is an alloy engione, compared to the cast iron 1.8 engine that's currently used, the weight is probably about the same... or even less.
Also if it's non-turbo, is there going to be much scope for remapping the ECU??
Hmmm - I wonder what the fuel economy is going to be like??


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## pette (May 7, 2002)

Funnily enough, the Audi garage in Bury mentioned this to a friend of mine last week. Because it came from Audi UK I thought it was most likely to be total fabrication...


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2002)

Don't think they really had much choice given the way the competition has moved on, the impending 350Z and the fact that there's a market for power i.e. all you chippers!

Power hike doesn't seem to be that great - not sure I want a nicer sounding but potentially slower car.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2002)

a V6 TT... it's a start....


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2002)

as for the apparent lack of BHP....

but manufacturers always misquoted / understate the final production output .. so maybe a 250+ bhp is there... ?


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2002)

but i'm hoping that Audi marketing realise that the TT needs to be up there on the power stakes with the Boxster and help influence the power stakes.... time to start praying...


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## Dubcat (Jun 10, 2002)

I hate to sound like a moaning little git but I AM stressed out now because I am awaiting delivery of a new TT. Should I cancel my order and wait for the V6? Is this a really dumb time to buy a brand new TT?

This is about 3 times as much as i have ever spent on a car so to buy the TT was a huge decision for me. I dont want to be sitting here in 6 months saying 'if only I had waited'. ???


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Photoniq,

The truth is no-one knows what this V6 will drive like. Will it wallow due to "extra weight" or will the aluminium engine make the larger lump have no weight gain. It "should" drive better, ie no lag and torque should be available from lower revs. It should sound far better. Will it ever be available in RHD? When will it be released in the UK? 2003? 2004? who knows. I'll take my 225Coupe when it arrives and then order the v6 when more info is available. ;D


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## jonno (May 7, 2002)

Photoniq
even if you order now, you wont have to put down any money, AFAIK.
why not order the current spec, and hang on till either more info on the v6 is out (if ever) or dealer needs cash/spec coz there about to build your order?
jonno


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## Dubcat (Jun 10, 2002)

Jonno - ive already given the dealer my spec - car will be built in Week 30. However he did agree with me that I could get my deposit back if Audi release a V6 TT, since I brought up the rumours of a V6 TT with him.

If the V6 wont be around for a year or two I will stick with my 225 TTC. I did not realise that it can take so long for a new German car to be released here.

Still, now im worried that resale values of 1.8TT's will be adversly affected if there is a big engine model available


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

Audi get 240HP from a 3.2L, BMW get 340 from 3.2L :

Audi should buy an M3, rip the engine out then shoehorn it into a TT. 270HP at the wheels will make a TT the car it should have been in the first place.

I'm happy with my TT, its just I'm a speed freak


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## ADB (May 7, 2002)

I seem to remember there was a half-page news article in one of the UK Car magazines around Feb/March this year about the 245Bhp TT being available shortly (then) - this was the one Russell mentioned in one of the newsletters; same 1.8T engine with an Audi re-map of the ECU to give 245Bhp. This never happened and was canned due to too much heat - will this V6 ever materialise or will this be another teaser from Audi ?

Andy


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## Monique (Jun 11, 2002)

Me thinks new V6 will be normally aspirated. i.el, BMW can produce 230BHP from their 3.0 liter.

That said, chipping is out! Then comes the real expensive joke: replacing intakes, headers and camshafts. Chip tuning for normal engines is not as efficient as for a turbo.

Opinions of course and willing to be taught something new.


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## thorney (May 15, 2002)

Bearing in mind that chipping allows at least 260bhp is their any point in Audi bringing out a V6 versh at any less than that?

The average man/woman in street buys the TT for its looks, the decision on whether they want a 1.8 turbo or a V6 isn't exactly high on their agenda.

Enthusiasts (which I classify everyone here) are more concerned with performance (as well as looks for you polishers out there ) so why would Audi bring out such a car when a modified 225 would 'beat' it?

I understand the concept of NA cars with torque etc but what I don't understand is car manuf who bring out wishy washy product to half meet a supposed market demand. Look at the M3 CSL (still a bit unconfirmed) but BMW have upped the power by 7bhp, dropped the weight by a couple of kg's and suposedly upped the price by Â£4k - what is the point?
Don't get me wrong, I hope they bring it out but hope they bring it out with 300+bhp so it could (in stock form) be a challenge to Evo's and M3's without us needing to mod it to obtain same result.

Or am I being a bit too demanding?


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

or forced induction.............

Also as an example take a Merc SLK 320 vs an SLK 320 AMG
0-60 7 secs vs 5.2 secs
BHP 218 vs 354
Torque [email protected] vs [email protected]

All from a 3.2 litre 18v engine.

ummm..... can be done. ;D


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

I think it could be a marketing ploy!!


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## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

hmmm - is it possible that this new V6 would be the 180 equivelent... and later on Audi release a more powerfull V6 after they have played around with some internals ??


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Yeah, lets hope they use the RS6 engine ;D


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

I had a better read on the german article.

The new engine on the TT will be available to order in Germany from Spring 2003..so who knows when it will come in the UK.

Also there is going to be a price increase of 1000 Euros, and again who knows how much more it will go up in the UK.

Finally there is going to be a new gearbox fitted in the TT, which according to the article will make changing gears quicker and easier. It is calling this gearbox "double coupling"...anyone knows what this means?


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

...another translation that I found about the double couppling gearbox/transmission is double clutch as well!


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

Monique - BMW M series engines are straight 6, as oppose to the V shape, and are normally aspirated. So, BMW get 340 horsies from 3.2L, yet Audi are achieving only 240HP ???


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## ^outt^kast^ (Jun 7, 2002)

...another translation that I found about the double couppling gearbox/transmission is double clutch as well!

does that mean u need 2 left legs to drive the bugger!?! ???


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## Jae (May 6, 2002)

Has anyone called Audi UK yet? I cannot, as 0800 numbers are not allowed from abroad.... 

Be interesting to see their response...


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Just spoken to young polite lady , I quote
'no announcement due of new engine specification'

If you call back in ten minutes you'll get someone different with a another informed AUDI UK pearl of wisdom.


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## Monique (Jun 11, 2002)

Hello Sacvenger,

Totally agree with you. A mate owns the 3.0 Z3 Coupe. 228BHP. I cannot blow his doors on acceleration but I get him on cornering and LOOKS : : : :


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

Kim Collins mentioned that mtm were working on supercharger conversions for the NA VAG V6 engines.

Food for thought.... ;D


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## djp10tt (Jul 20, 2003)

Is it all clever marketing to stop us all from thinking about buying a Nissan Z350, 3.5, V6, 280 BHP? 150 MPH, 0-60 6.0, 6 speed, Â£24k? 
Tempted I know I am. ???
My local dealer in Bristol has already taken an order for 1.


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## driver8 (Jun 19, 2002)

Isn't this the same project that has been talked about for some time and now been shelved because of engine overheating? When I ordered a TT brochure in February, someone from Audi UK phoned me and told me I might want to hold out for the new model. When I talked to my dealer about this last week, they described exactly the car in the announcement(3.2l V6 etc), and said, of course, that it was not going into production owing to the overheating problem.

My German's not too hot, but I can't see any mention of the source of the announcement in the Abend Zeitung article. Might it simply be that their information is out of date?


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

> Isn't this the same project that has been talked about for some time and now been shelved because of engine overheating? When I ordered a TT brochure in February, someone from Audi UK phoned me and told me I might want to hold out for the new model. When I talked to my dealer about this last week, they described exactly the Â car in the announcement(3.2l V6 etc), and said, of course, that it was not going into production owing to the overheating problem.
> 
> My German's not too hot, but I can't see any mention of the source of the announcement in the Abend Zeitung article. Might it simply be that their information is out of date?


That was the 1.8T running higher boost, this is something else.


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2002)

As an observation, i think that the 3.2 will come out sooner than later. e.g it's in the golf and beetle. For some time audi have been gearing up to change the engine, but they needed to shift the old model with easy mods, e.g lower suspension bigger alloys, just bolt it on, looks better already!! and less likely to fail. Almost a special edition, but without the badges ?? s-line??
Engines need further development, so that the reputation for reliability don't suffer. And they, audi, need to keep up! 
But i feel that audi play their cards too close to their chest, after all porsche said that the boxster was to be up graded sometime ago. But audi have to keep it a secret. This is just a marketing ploy surely! so why not hold out and wait, let the head rule the heart.
Wait and see !!!


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

I actually called Audi UK and spoke to someone today. He said he had no info on this at all.

But then I called the Marketing manager and had a chat. I asked him about the price reductions in the other thread that was a mistake.

I also asked him about the V6. He said that this is confirmed for Germany LHD but not for RHD just yet. He said that the 241 will run together with the 225 as there are no plans to replace the one for the other. Also I asked him about the price increase of 1k euro for the German price and he said he expects this to be even higher than that.

My personal feeling from this chat is:

1) The 241 V6 will come in the UK next year by spring/summer

2) The 225 will still be for sale...so no worries about the residuals

3) The new 241 TT will be priced higher than the current 225. I would expect a price increase of about Â£2k, as this will become the flagship TT till the new one comes in 2005.

At least some of this information will help some guys who are worried about their current orders. I am one of them and I was very keen to clear the confusion. I personally don't see the benefit of the extra bhp, nor am I willing to wait for so long for the V6. And as I said the 225 and the 241 will run in parallel, we shouldn't get a hit in the residuals at all. Finally, I don't see a great improvement in the performance and the extra purchase price is not justified to me either. So I will order my 225 TTC as planned.


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

> 2) The 225 will still be for sale...so no worries about the residuals


Ask MINI Cooper owners if the S is likely to affect their residuals...


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## thorney (May 15, 2002)

I think the Mini comparison is a little unfair, especially at this premature time as we know very little of the final spec.

The Mini/CooperS are totally different cars not just the same car with slightly more power/diff engine. They've been styled very differently and the price is a lot higher.

You have a point though, if Audi decide to fanfair the V6 as THE TT to have then residuals are likely to suffer.

For me it just makes the route to modding that much more desirable. I'm not knocking 30bhp off my car just to get a V6! ;D


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## Ruffles (May 6, 2002)

Mwahahaha - well said Thorney!

For those with an unmodded car, I'd say mods were the answer before running to get a new one.

Nick's (I think) nitrous oxide injection mod to 360bhp sounded just the ticket..


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## davek9 (May 7, 2002)

I remember an article a few weeks ago that stated that the next Golf replacement would be around in 2004. This would have a new floorpan etc upon which the next generation a3 and tt would be based. One of the objectives was to enable the fitting of the 6 cylinders etc across the ranges. :-/

Logically therefore even if it was possible to fit this engine into the existing tt surely it would be a stopgap until the new TT which would be 2005 ish

As far as the power aspect of the v6 would'nt the torque available from this sort of engine have more to do with the drivability than outright BHP eg Alfa GTA. ???

:


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## thorney (May 15, 2002)

To answer this on bahalf of all modded cars.

Any chip change brings along with it huge differences in torque regardless of any bhp gains.

However, you're absoultely right that NA engines have different driving characteristics, I (IMO) prefer the surge you get from driving forced induction cars. I was disappointed with my M3 because whilst it was certainly just as fast an my old P1 it didn't 'feel' as fast.

For me you can't beat the shove in the back feeling - it's just more fun.


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## Fin (May 7, 2002)

Last months EVO had an article about the golf getting a 3.2litre V6 with 241bhp that would be out the last quarter (I think) of this year. Perhaps people are putting two and two together as this confirms the engine?

There would have to be a number of changes I would imagine to the current TT to accomodate this new engine so I wonder if they could get it out within the next 6 months - year?

Only my thoughts.

Fin


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## Jae (May 6, 2002)

Am going to ask a German dealer about this on Monday


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2002)

can't wait from the respone Jae !


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## fsr (Jun 24, 2002)

Could they be limiting the power because they don't want the hassle/expense of stiffening the chassis, uprating the suspension and brakes, redesigning the three diffs the gearbox and the clutch. Assuming all the above bits are the same the increase in power eats a bit further into the mechanical design/ safety margins, and therefore the life expectancy of the car. Its a balancing act, every thing has to be beefed up in harmony. 
I speak from experience of having a volvo 360GLT :-[ which was a 340 chassis with a BIG engine, inevitably the chassis failed and the brakes just couldnt cope. 
Frazer


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Well, I guess they just re-use an existing engine from the Phaethon and didn't want to spend more money to develop a new one. I guess the new TT coming in 2005 will have a more powerful engine fitted to it and there I would expect to see some new engine development!


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Since the TT is getting a few years old now and Audi are obviously trying to attract more buyers (TV adverts etc), could this be part of a face lift before the new TT comes in 2/3 years?

I wouldn't be surprised to see an electic spoiler as a start.


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2002)

Spoke to a dealer today who seemed to know a bit about it. He thinks the new A3 will get the V6 first over here, followed by the TT. Based on that his guess was 12 to 18 months before the V6 hits UK shores.


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## driver8 (Jun 19, 2002)

I just 'phoned Audi UK and spoke to a product marketing manager. He confirmed new engine for next year but said it will be the V6 from the current golf, not the one from the Phaeton. It will be rated at 250bhp. It will probably be announced at the UK motor show and start of production is week 5 2003. The first RHD ones should arrive here end June 2003.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Was the product marketing manager you spoke to was Callum?


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## Dubcat (Jun 10, 2002)

A few people have mentioned 'a new TT in 2005' and 'a new tt in 2 or 3 years'. Do you have more information on the 'new tt'? Where did you hear about this?

I had considered holding out for the V6. I don't think ill bother now. I am having enough trouble waiting until September for my car to arrive! ;D

Photoniq.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

To avoid rumours and misunderstandings I have been clarifying the picture with Audi.

The situation is :

Audi are looking at a 250bhp 3.2 V6 for fitment into the TT.

As of yet there is no firm confirmation of when it will begin production.

The project is currently in a similar state to how the 245bhp 1.8T was before it was cancelled (due to heat concerns).
i.e. It is being looked at but, as yet, does not have the green light.

As you would expect, Audi will not confirm any models coming out until they are 100% that they will be launched. Currently this is not the situation.


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## driver8 (Jun 19, 2002)

No, but he said he was taking the call for Callum who was out of the office yesterday.


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## driver8 (Jun 19, 2002)

scoTTy,
I don't know if we can avoid misunderstandings if Audi tell one person one thing and another something different! I was definitely told yesterday that the project had the green light and start of production was week 5, 2003. Also that it was not the 3.2 litre engine but the one from the current golf v6. (Is that a 2.8 - I don't know) As I wrote above, the guy I spoke to was a colleague of Callum Mackechnie (sp?), the UK TT product marketing manager. For anyone who is interested, Audi's phone number is 01908 60100.


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