# "I PAY MY TAXES"......Why should I?



## TTMBTT (Jul 22, 2010)

Legally why should I not now redirect my income to "legally" avoid paying tax, and how far and how deep
should accountability go, politicians, Royals, CEO's. Why should I/we pay.............. :x


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## TTMBTT (Jul 22, 2010)

Divisive, touchy subject which draws in partisan views on who is pilloried for avoidance and who
is not by cloaking the avoidance under the guise of business/family self interest and hypocrisy.
Why do we put up with this double talk, when the evidence by whatever means is thrown at our
feet for it to be brushed aside, buried over a period of time and forgotten.....what kind of people
are we,COME ON!!!!!!!!!


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## Waitwhat93 (Mar 28, 2016)

If this is about David Cameron, as far as I was aware he paid the correct taxes on that money.

Don't believe everything the news tells you.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Waitwhat93 said:


> If this is about David Cameron, as far as I was aware he paid the correct taxes on that money.
> 
> Don't believe everything the news tells you.


That's missing the point, and I've not actually read any news that says otherwise.

I would say the issue is that he has made a lot of public statements describing *legal *tax avoidance as immoral, and has frequently claimed that his government is doing everything it can to stamp out the loopholes and structures that make it possible. If it then transpires that he has benefited from something that could be seen as tax avoidance, even if perfectly legal, it won't look good for him.

There will also be a lot of interest in the shares that he's profited from (information that's not been released so far), in case there's any conflict of interest there. That being said, I suspect he will have been very careful here - not because I think he has any morals at all, but he is a PR machine and I doubt a skeleton that big would be allowed to sit in his closet.


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## barry_m2 (Jun 29, 2015)

My parents signed thier house over to me and my siblings a few years ago to avoid paying inheritance tax on it when the inevitable happens. It's not illegal, it was recommended they do it by a financial advisor. Was it wrong?


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## Waitwhat93 (Mar 28, 2016)

Spandex said:


> Waitwhat93 said:
> 
> 
> > If this is about David Cameron, as far as I was aware he paid the correct taxes on that money.
> ...


Actually, you missed the point completely.

Mr Cameron paid all the tax he should have on that investment, he didn't avoid anything.


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## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

barry_m2 said:


> My parents signed thier house over to me and my siblings a few years ago to avoid paying inheritance tax on it when the inevitable happens. It's not illegal, it was recommended they do it by a financial advisor. Was it wrong?


Nothing wrong with that.

Inheritance tax is set at approx £325k meaning many average home owners will have to pay Inheritance Tax which is IMO pretty immoral.

There seems to be uproar that Cameron earns circa £145k as PM. Who would want to run UKplc for that pitance with all the shit that goes with it, when there are salaries of several times that for positions in both the civil service and commerce.

And some of the bigger salaries are available to trade union officials where I thought equality was the order of the day.

Examples:


> 2013
> 
> Financial statements published by the Trade Union Certification Office show that almost 40 union leaders have received six-figure pay packages in the past year, including one union leader who received £230,000.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... dbyes.html



> 2011
> According to Unite's annual return for 2010, Simpson received £510,659, the bulk comprising of £361,347 in severance pay. He also received £97,677 in gross salary, and more than £51,000 in housing benefit and car allowances.


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... oodbye-row


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

barry_m2 said:


> My parents signed thier house over to me and my siblings a few years ago to avoid paying inheritance tax on it when the inevitable happens. It's not illegal, it was recommended they do it by a financial advisor. Was it wrong?


Nothing at all, as long as they live for (I think 7 years after the gift date).

My mum gave me and my sister a lump sum each after my dad passed away. Was 9 years ago so no worries about tax now.

Our rental properties are all in my wife's name as she's a basic rate tax payer and I'd get hit for 45% on the profit from the income. No issues with that, totally legal.


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

mighTy Tee said:


> There seems to be uproar that Cameron earns circa £145k as PM. Who would want to run UKplc for that pitance with all the shit that goes with it, when there are salaries of several times that for positions in both the civil service and commerce.


Agree with you on his base salary, most wouldn't do that job for that salary, much more available to CEOs elsewhere.

Pretty sure there are different rules for MPs than the rest of us. Not picking on the PM, but all MPs..

If you or I were given housing related to the job it would be taxed. Pretty sure they can claim more than the 45p a mile for personal car use as well, if normal people got more than the HMRC limit they get taxed in the higher sum.

And don't forget, he will get a pretty good book deal / lecture fees / directorships / advisory fees (delete as appropriate) after he retires

One thing that really bugs me. My company give me private medical cover, so effectively if I need an operation or whatever I go into a private hospital. They probably do it so I'll be back at work quicker.
As a result I am effectively saying I won't use the NHS for major medical treatment or physio, so it saves the country money. And then HMRC tax me on the perceived benefit of having the cover. Wrong!


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## Waitwhat93 (Mar 28, 2016)

Shug750S said:


> mighTy Tee said:
> 
> 
> > There seems to be uproar that Cameron earns circa £145k as PM. Who would want to run UKplc for that pitance with all the shit that goes with it, when there are salaries of several times that for positions in both the civil service and commerce.
> ...


You still have cover for NHS.. remember those things called ambulances and emergencies? :roll:


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## barry_m2 (Jun 29, 2015)

Shug750S said:


> barry_m2 said:
> 
> 
> > My parents signed thier house over to me and my siblings a few years ago to avoid paying inheritance tax on it when the inevitable happens. It's not illegal, it was recommended they do it by a financial advisor. Was it wrong?
> ...


  It was a little tongue in cheek. Yes, it's 7 years, and I see nothing wrong with doing it. If the government wanted to tax you on it no matter what they would never have introduced the 7 year rule.

My point is, if there is a legal way to either pay less tax or avoid it altogether, then what's wrong with doing it.

Lets be honest, if someone walked up to you and asked if you wanted to pay 50% less tax, you're hardly going to say no, not interested, are you


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## TTMBTT (Jul 22, 2010)

That is the point, you can avoid paying tax. The question is if everyone legitimately did not pay tax
what are the consequences, having smart,smug lawyers advising on how avoid on a mass scale would
lead to what??? what do your taxes pay for???
Its a loophole that serves a purpose for the few, currently politicians of all flavours and aforementioned
that feel that for them the rule does not apply, and to date it doesn't.


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## Jenny H (Aug 25, 2013)

Shug750S said:


> barry_m2 said:
> 
> 
> > My parents signed thier house over to me and my siblings a few years ago to avoid paying inheritance tax on it when the inevitable happens. It's not illegal, it was recommended they do it by a financial advisor. Was it wrong?
> ...


This is a common method of avoiding Inheritance Tax however your parents need to be paying you the full market value rent on the property. Otherwise it would be classed as a Gift with Reservation and would fail.
Jenny

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/ihtmanual/ihtm14301.htm


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

Waitwhat93 said:


> Shug750S said:
> 
> 
> > mighTy Tee said:
> ...


Yep, realise that, and happy to pay the normal NI for it. It's the tax on the private medical that's wrong when I'm effectively opting out of expensive operations etc. If the need arises.

Wasn't moaning about paying for the NHS, happy to pay for that, a great institution. but by removing the burden my payments go further as I will be less likely to use the NHS for expensive treatment, and they penalise me for not using it


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

barry_m2 said:


> My parents signed thier house over to me and my siblings a few years ago to avoid paying inheritance tax on it when the inevitable happens. It's not illegal, it was recommended they do it by a financial advisor. Was it wrong?


But now you and your siblings will have to pay capital gains tax when you sell it


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Waitwhat93 said:


> Actually, you missed the point completely.
> 
> Mr Cameron paid all the tax he should have on that investment, he didn't avoid anything.


Which investment did you decide I was referring to (despite me not mentioning anything specific and despite me not even saying it had been confirmed that he had avoided any taxes)?


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## barry_m2 (Jun 29, 2015)

YELLOW_TT said:


> barry_m2 said:
> 
> 
> > My parents signed thier house over to me and my siblings a few years ago to avoid paying inheritance tax on it when the inevitable happens. It's not illegal, it was recommended they do it by a financial advisor. Was it wrong?
> ...


No. That was why it was done, I can't remember exactly how it was done as it was ages ago, some kind of trust or something. I'm not really interested in it at the moment to be honest, it's not something I really want to think about. It'll be dealt with when necessary.


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

barry_m2 said:


> YELLOW_TT said:
> 
> 
> > barry_m2 said:
> ...


When my father died my mother looked in to this and that is what she was told by her solicitor


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Spandex said:


> Waitwhat93 said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, you missed the point completely.
> ...


Just to clarify, as I'm guessing you're talking about Cameron's shares in his fathers offshore investment fund, the issue isn't the tax that was paid when he sold his shares. The issue is that no UK corporation tax was paid on a fund that was effectively (if not legally) run from the UK by Cameron's father and others. This was 'made legal' by the common practice of hiring a number of random Bahamas residents to fill the majority of board member roles - this is certainly a well known tax avoidance mechanism and were a court able to prove that this was actually a UK-run fund, it would actually be tax evasion. Not that I think that is going to happen.

Let's be clear, tax avoidance only refers to legal mechanisms and it covers a broad spectrum, from perfectly acceptable methods such as ISAs (yes, ISAs are officially a means of tax avoidance) - to the more suspect ones like the film investment funds that were in the news not long ago and have since been shut down by HMRC. The fact that Cameron has paid all the tax he 'should have' on the actual sale doesn't mean he hasn't profited from the tax avoiding nature of the fund. Which is why no one is claiming he has broken the law yet many people are still unhappy with the hypocrisy he has shown and the way in which he's handled the whole fiasco.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

barry_m2 said:


> My parents signed thier house over to me and my siblings a few years ago to avoid paying inheritance tax on it when the inevitable happens. It's not illegal, it was recommended they do it by a financial advisor. Was it wrong?


Inheritance tax has explicit rules to stop people from pulling that sort of thing off. What you've done is _avoided_ the tax by pushing the transaction further past the safe-guards in place to ensure people do pay inheritance tax.

So yes, it's wrong, and it's wrong in the same vain as using offshore and other avoidance techniques by abusing the spirit of the law. You may be dodging a small bit of tax, or millions - I've got no idea how much is involved, but the principles are the same.

Whether inheritance (or any other) tax is _fair_? Well that's down to your personal opinions. You may feel morally comfortable with saying you were told to do it by somebody responsible (your advisor) - but if you could be proven to have broken the law, this would be no defence.


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## barry_m2 (Jun 29, 2015)

Dash said:


> barry_m2 said:
> 
> 
> > My parents signed thier house over to me and my siblings a few years ago to avoid paying inheritance tax on it when the inevitable happens. It's not illegal, it was recommended they do it by a financial advisor. Was it wrong?
> ...


Well, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

barry_m2 said:


> Well, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it


I don't think anybody exposed by the panama papers lose any sleep either. Does it really matter who else loses out if you're gaining personally?


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Tax avoidance is fine when you're doing it, but when others do it, its morally wrong is the UK mantra.
Its a cash in hand job - one in the eye of the government, 
inheritance tax - I've worked hard to give it to my family, 
offshore corporations/funds - well I'm just using an existing loop hole, 
contractor to a off shore company - IR35 is just a way to reduce my tax burden
large dividends - its not avoiding tax, I'm just taking large bonuses
Coronation tax - UK is just a holding company, we dont make or sell anything directly, it comes from S.A.r.L

All excuses...


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## lord_of_the_rings (Jan 30, 2014)

Hi
The very complex tax system that we have in this country is only there to enable loop holes to be exploited "legally" by our ruling elite. If you work PAYE then your stuffed and can do nothing about it really.
I found this video on line which talks about tax and the registration process which I thought was very interesting.






Ally


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