# Ordered the R8 yesterday



## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

Well, I wanted a supercar for a few months now and a few weeks ago I was invited by my Porsche dealer to test the Boxter S, Cayman S and C2S in a race track near Cobham.

After that drive I was nearly convinced to go for the Cayman S, due to its balance and overall feel on the trace track (less of a handfull than the C2S). What didn't convince me was spending over Â£20K in options to get all the bits I wanted like ceramic brakes, PASM and etc.

I then read both R8 tests (Autocar and Evo) and after that I decided I wanted the R8. Placed my deposit yesterday afternoon.

I will now have to wait about 2 years to get my car but I don't really mind it. It may give me the opportunity to change my order for the V10 when it comes out in case it's as good as expected. Also I can think carefully about the spec I want. The only things that I have decided and won't change are the manual gearbox and the magnetic ride suspension.

Now I've got two years to wait and drool before I get my car...  I may have something else in between if I feel the wait is too hard.


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

Nice one 8)


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

it always amazes me in the other marques section :roll: so many posts from people who own a 25-30k motors, then all of a sudden you can buy 60-80k cars  i must be in the wrong job


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## Guest (May 27, 2007)

I'll give you a clue............ [smiley=pimp2.gif]


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

tehdarkstar said:


> After that drive I was nearly convinced to go for the Cayman S, due to its balance and overall feel on the trace track (less of a handfull than the C2S). What didn't convince me was spending over Â£20K in options to get all the bits I wanted like ceramic brakes, PASM and etc.


It is a peach of a car to drive isn't it?

Â£20k on options? You're just being silly :?


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

caney said:


> it always amazes me in the other marques section :roll: so many posts from people who own a 25-30k motors, then all of a sudden you can buy 60-80k cars  i must be in the wrong job


Maybe they didn't spend 20k extra on mods for their current cars (unlike you), so they can afford a better car next time! :wink:


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Widget said:


> tehdarkstar said:
> 
> 
> > After that drive I was nearly convinced to go for the Cayman S, due to its balance and overall feel on the trace track (less of a handfull than the C2S). What didn't convince me was spending over Â£20K in options to get all the bits I wanted like ceramic brakes, PASM and etc.
> ...


I spent 7k extras on mine and this didn't include ceramics or PASM that add another 6k!!

So 15k on extras is achievable.

Having said that I was told that the average person specifies around 7k of extras on a Cayman S.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

tehdarkstar said:


> Now I've got two years to wait and drool before I get my car...


Think of it more as 2 years to come to your senses, as you watch the scary reality of harsh depreciation once the novelty factor of this overstyled cliche on wheels wears off.


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## Guest (May 27, 2007)

kmpowell said:


> tehdarkstar said:
> 
> 
> > Now I've got two years to wait and drool before I get my car...
> ...


I can live with that.

I'll be driving around in my overstyled cliches knowing im losing money.
However, i tend to buy cars because i like the way they look/drive without any thought of depreciation.

When i ordered my r8, i didn't think about what i was going to lose, but what i was going to gain.


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

caney said:


> it always amazes me in the other marques section :roll: so many posts from people who own a 25-30k motors, then all of a sudden you can buy 60-80k cars  i must be in the wrong job


Well, if I wanted I could have spent more on my TT, but because it was an everyday car that would be doing 2K miles/month I knew that depreciation would kill anything more expensive. I also wanted something that would not cost me a fortune in the fuel pump every month.

I have changed jobs recently and now work in C. London. It means tube every day and probably no more than 5K miles/year of driving. I can therefore spend more in my car and not care about consumption as much.

I've had some harsh personal problems as well in the form of a divorce, so I thought I would be happeier spending some money on myself.


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

Widget said:


> tehdarkstar said:
> 
> 
> > After that drive I was nearly convinced to go for the Cayman S, due to its balance and overall feel on the trace track (less of a handfull than the C2S). What didn't convince me was spending over Â£20K in options to get all the bits I wanted like ceramic brakes, PASM and etc.
> ...


Oh, it's fantastic to drive! I couldn't believe how much I could get away with in the track. Fantastic.

I know I'm silly spending Â£20K in options therefore I wanting something else, but I don't want to look back at my car and think: If I did go for that option, would it be much better?


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

vlastan said:


> I spent 7k extras on mine and this didn't include ceramics or PASM that add another 6k!!
> 
> So 15k on extras is achievable.
> 
> Having said that I was told that the average person specifies around 7k of extras on a Cayman S.


I could drop the cost in options by taking off some of the comfort/looks options, but I could never go without PASM and PCCB as after having driven both options in the track I know they do make a difference.


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

kmpowell said:


> tehdarkstar said:
> 
> 
> > Now I've got two years to wait and drool before I get my car...
> ...


Maybe...  But I couldn't convince myself to go for a 911 considering that every second man where I live has one. It's just too common. The R8 will be exclusive for longer as it hasn't been in production for 40 years.

The C2S also demands a whole lot more commitment on the track than the Cayman due to weight distribution. I think/hope the R8 will be much closer to the Cayman than the 911 as both of them are mid-engined... And the R8 gets a high-revving V8... Sweet...


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

caney said:


> it always amazes me in the other marques section :roll: so many posts from people who own a 25-30k motors, then all of a sudden you can buy 60-80k cars  i must be in the wrong job


This has occurred to me also. It could be a windfall (sale of assets, house, say, left by deceased relative, mother, father) or modest lottery win. Still doesn't make much sense blowing so much on a car when you normally wouldn't regard it expedient to pay that much based on your usual salary. Don't forget, if income has remained the same there are running costs, depreciation, insurance etc. It's a totally different league jumping to 80G from 25-30K. I suppose it could be one of the small deposit, buy later if you want to, or walk away scams.

It could be a case of your own company owning the car, but you would have a hefty benefit in kind burden (can't see it being a pool car :lol: :lol: ) and seems irresponsible to treat your business in this way.

If on the other hand you could afford the 80G, why not buy a car of that value in the first place, as people working in the city do, even to the point of anticipating their annual bonus.

There is usually a long waiting list for this type of vehicle and an opportunity to drop out of the deal, a lot do.

There are also a few dreamers about :wink:

Joe


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

tehdarkstar said:


> caney said:
> 
> 
> > it always amazes me in the other marques section :roll: so many posts from people who own a 25-30k motors, then all of a sudden you can buy 60-80k cars  i must be in the wrong job
> ...


(Red) and how long will that last? (Blue) Common mistake.

Joe


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

PS With regard to women, don't jump out of the frying pan and into the fire; another common mistake.

Joe


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

TTCool said:


> caney said:
> 
> 
> > it always amazes me in the other marques section :roll: so many posts from people who own a 25-30k motors, then all of a sudden you can buy 60-80k cars  i must be in the wrong job
> ...


Its a good question. Personally my situation is unexpected and has been a complete surprise to me and my family.

I've been in Software Solution Sales for years and had worked for one company in our industry until 4 years ago and left to work for another at that point. I was very succesful and pretty good at it but I hated it if I'm honest because I couldnt see where it was going (I didnt really want to be doing it for another 10-15 years till I was 45/50) and my wife was bored of being a Practice Nurse. That started us looking at alternatives. We finally settled on emigrating to Canada and started the long process.

My wife decided to do a Masters and become a Nurse Practitioner as they are sought after in Canada. She achieved this with distinction, something Im very proud of her for (sorry im digressing). Ooh one thing to mention is that ''Jean Luc Picard'' presented the thingummy at her graduation (nope Im uneducated so I have no idea what was going on, very grand it all was though).

Anyway, there we are, all set, waiting for paperwork when the MD and Development Director (who was an employee when I was there) of the first company I worked for in this industry contact me in October last year. The guy who is MD has allowed the other guy to buy in and they have some sales guys and are doing ok but need a Sales Director. They had a new .Net product which, and I was right, I knew would do well if marketed and sold properly.

So, they want me, my wife and I discuss it and overnight (well 2 weeks) our plans change and I take an equal share in the business. Hand my notice in 4/12/06 and have a month off work.

Anyway to cut a long story slightly less long. Here I am 6 months later, Ive got the company to triple its 2006 full year new business income by the end of May (year end in December) and looking at a very healthy Dividend at the end of March next year which will pay for the car (including what I get for the TT).

Wifey starts talking private school to me for the kids, which Ive put money aside for and I can see a glint in her eye that says more is coming so I start thinking about cars before she blows it all.

Result, one V8 M3.

Im more amazed than anyone that the lad who pissed about at school, left at 16 and started his first job a week after leaving school (I soooo wanted an Astra SRi and just had to earn the money) has spent that on a car.

Its not big, its not clever and cars/houses etc dont make a person better than another. It's pissing in the wind compared to Helen and the lads. Im much prouder of a happy 11 year marriage and 2 great kids than the size of my house or the BHP of my car (although I do get a semi thinking about it ;-) :lol: )

Anyway, there is always a bigger fish, usually 10 years younger too, the bastard :wink: They usually order Porkers or R8s the swines. :lol:


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## Guest (May 27, 2007)

My situation was i went into the military after doing my a levels.
I pissed about at school the same as Leg.

Left the military at 33 and was head hunted to set up security protocols/close protection for a big oil company.

After putting the word out, went to work for a different oil company in a similar position for rediculous money for 5 yrs.

Retired last year, sold off my property portfolio, and bought my first house to live in, and as i've lived primarily in the middle east for the last 12 years.

So, thats how i went from driving an escort, to a TT to owning a nice little collection of cars.

Oh, and no wife, no kids. :wink:


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Rich, that's a lovely storey, good health, hard work, shoulder to shoulder relationship, children and that most elusive ingredient, luck.

Well done... but why white? :lol:

Joe


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

Do you know a short balding bloke called Nial by chance DUO?


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## Guest (May 27, 2007)

I know a lot of short balding blokes.lol


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

TTCool said:


> Rich, that's a lovely storey, good health, hard work, shoulder to shoulder relationship, children and that most elusive ingredient, luck.
> 
> Well done... but why white? :lol:
> 
> Joe


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

TTCool said:


> Rich, that's a lovely storey, good health, hard work, shoulder to sholder relationship, children and that most elusive ingredient, luck.
> 
> Well done... but why white? :lol:
> 
> Joe


I think its a reaction to having a (fucking nightmare to look after) black car and being stupid STUPID I SAY enough to buy the wife a black mercedes in March. Im a masochist, what can I say.

I quite like the dark metallic grey they do, cant remember the name, but I cant be arsed with getting shut of swirl marks and all the other crap that comes with dark cars anymore.

No doubt ill change the spec umpteen times before it goes to build.

Lest we forget this forum is full of people able to buy very nice cars, from the Â£10K TT through to the guys with Astons, Porkers and Fezzas. No one is exactly unsuccesful or destitute eh, not least the guys who spend lots of money they will never recoup on mods!!


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Rich

carney's point was about the apparent sudden ability to jump from a modestly priced car to a very expensive one, I think, and all that entails. I do see your point. I never doubted that there are many on this Forum able to own very expensive cars.

Joe


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

TTCool said:


> Rich
> 
> carney's point was about the apparent sudden ability to jump from a modestly priced car to a very expensive one, I think, and all that entails. I do see your point. I never doubted that there are many on this Forum able to own very expensive cars.
> 
> Joe


Yeah sorry I got a little of the core topic, Im just saying that R8, Fezza, M3 or TT, in the end they are all nice cars.

However, back on topic, yeah I knew what caney was saying, hence a run down of my circumstance. I guess people's circumstances change or they hold back and then get to a stage where they think, 'do you know what, sod it' and go get what they always wanted.

Part of my mindset was that I cant find what I want for under Â£40K, ill be 40 before I know it and I like cars so screw it. Ill probably save Â£5K over the next year in car magazines I wont bother buying! :lol:

Ill tell you what I find hard to understand, the people on here who change cars every 3-4 months. They must lose a fortune!


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

Leg said:


> Ill tell you what I find hard to understand, the people on here who change cars every 3-4 months. They must lose a fortune!


ditto that :wink:


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

caney said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> > Ill tell you what I find hard to understand, the people on here who change cars every 3-4 months. They must lose a fortune!
> ...


ditto here too. I always choose carefully and keep my cars a long time.

Joe


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

some people like the attention and even then have to ask everyone their opinion every six months in case they make the wrong choice :wink: :lol:


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

TTCool said:


> caney said:
> 
> 
> > Leg said:
> ...


Approx 2 years for me, with the miles I do its seems an optimum time for me to keep the car. I have no idea why, I think I invented the rule.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Leg said:


> TTCool said:
> 
> 
> > caney said:
> ...


2 is too soon. Just after the heaviest depreciation took place.

If you are consious about depreciation when buying new cars you must keep them 4 or 5 years.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

vlastan said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> > TTCool said:
> ...


Im not.

Optimum means just before I'm completely bored if it, usually kicks in at 2 years so I swap at 2 years 3 months typically. This time Ive had to plan ahead cos of the lead time.


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

TTCool said:


> (Red) and how long will that last? (Blue) Common mistake.
> 
> Joe


Joe, I appreciate your opinions, but this time I think I'm in a better position to judge what is best for me.

As people are telling stories, here goes mine:

I come from a relatively modest background. Never got along very well with my family and when I was 18 I decided to leave my parents house and build my own life.

I do software architecture and I have been quite successfull on what I do. I have been transferred to various countries and now at 28 y/o I am in a position in which I have a nice house in a nice area of London, life on track, stability and everything.

As for my job change, the reason why it made me decide for the new car is not a new/much bigger salary, but the fact that I don't have to drive 100 miles/day any more. And yes, my divorce has been tough and I think that if spending some money will help make it less hard, then I will do that gladly.

A common misconception people have is that if you buy a Â£30K car it's because you can only afford that car. The reason why I bought the TT is because I wanted something that I could use for a lot of miles while still keeping resonable running costs and low depreciation. I could have gone for a C2S, but even the Porsche sales person at my dealership told me that it wouldn't make much sense.



Leg said:


> Ill tell you what I find hard to understand, the people on here who change cars every 3-4 months. They must lose a fortune!


It does make more sense to keep the car for longer and indeed my previous cars I always kept for more than 2 years. For some reason the TT isn't what I really wanted so I would be willing to change it earlier, but now it actually works out quite well, as I may keep the TT until I get delivery of the R8 in two years time, therefore making very good use of my TT... 

Also doing much less miles than I thought I would when I bought the TT, depreciation is going to be smaller... Good...


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

tehdarkstar said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> > Ill tell you what I find hard to understand, the people on here who change cars every 3-4 months. They must lose a fortune!
> ...


Didnt mean you m8. Was thinking of serial changers like Kev etc.

Oh and on the wife thing, think yourself lucky, Ive yet to break the news to Mrs Leg.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Leg said:


> Oh and on the wife thing, think yourself lucky, Ive yet to break the news to Mrs Leg.


About the new car or the divorce or does one lead into the other?


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## Guest (May 28, 2007)

I grew up in a puddle, on the Waterloo Estate in Pudsey,Leeds.
Before i was born i worked down't pit, and lived on placenta, which i had to share with two other kids and my mam and dad.
When i was born, for the first 3 yrs of my life i was used a a draft excluder until i went back down the pit to work 20 hour days as a coal taster.
When i got home , mam used make me hold the other end of the washing line whilst my older brother used to hold the other end, until he died trying to cheat by tying the washing line around his neck so he could do the ironing at the same time. Rumour has it he was reading a book, but i couldnt see because he was so far away.
With the death of my brother, it was the first time i had got to eat meat.
By the time i was 10 i had to carry my mother on my back everywhere she needed to go, negating the need for her to have shoes. I also changed jobs and became bull fluffer at a local farm. A job which had 200 applicants i got the job after showing great technique, (Actually shown to me by my dad) although the taste got some getting used to.
At 14 i gave up work and went to school.
I didnt have a uniform, although i did have my brothers hand me down tuxedo, which i wore with pride as well as the shoe he gave me.
I still have memories of that shoe, especially the special walk it has given me much to the amusement of my friends.
I left school at 14 to go work in a circus under the lion tamer. My job included cleaning the lions teeth, manicures and testing whether the tamers head was safe enough to be put in the lions mouth.
One day it went a bit wrong, and i lost an ear.
So, at 14 i left the circus and went back to school.
I'd grown out of the tuxedo by now, and had to resort to wearing my mothers dress, (luckily she was home all day as i couldnt carry her aroud and go to school), and changed my name to Debbie so i would fit in.
My mother even let me where her shoe, nice high healed number, which has left me with a funny gate in my walk til this day.
I left school at 17, and left home shortly after.


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

DUO3 NAN said:


> I grew up in a puddle, on the Waterloo Estate in Pudsey,Leeds.
> Before i was born i worked down't pit, and lived on placenta, which i had to share with two other kids and my mam and dad.
> When i was born, for the first 3 yrs of my life i was used a a draft excluder until i went back down the pit to work 20 hour days as a coal taster.
> When i got home , mam used make me hold the other end of the washing line whilst my older brother used to hold the other end, until he died trying to cheat by tying the washing line around his neck so he could do the ironing at the same time. Rumour has it he was reading a book, but i couldnt see because he was so far away.
> ...


has all that money made you mad :roll:


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## Guest (May 28, 2007)

Furious.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

DUO3 NAN said:


> Furious.


20 words and not even a grin.

1 word and im laughing.

Less is more, unless its FWD vs Quattro. :wink:


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

caney said:


> it always amazes me in the other marques section :roll: so many posts from people who own a 25-30k motors, then all of a sudden you can buy 60-80k cars  i must be in the wrong job


Good morning caney

I tried to answer your 'query' without attracting controversy and in good faith, not wishing to offend anybody, thereby feeding this Forum with it's life blood, one aspect of which is comment.

It is impossible to offer an explanation without a very considerable amount of speculation. The bottom line answer to your query, IMO, is that â€˜Old Money can buy a Â£30,000 car or an Â£80,000 car depending on the wishes and preferences of the individual, and likewise, New Money is capable of the same actionâ€™.

Speaking personally, I made my choice, which was a new Audi TT 225 Quattro Coupe, even though I could have bought a more expensive car, and will not be buying another car except in the unlikely event of my tiring of my present purchase. Speaking as someone who has owned two Ferrari in the past, my choice strongly suggests that the TT is indeed a remarkable car and represents outstanding value 

The following paragraph is not aimed at anyone in particular, it's an attempt to add philosophic comment and a tad of humour. Making a choice can depend on how easy/difficult it was to reach the position of being free to indulge oneself. Self-made individuals tend to err on the side of caution in my experience and some of these (men) at some point throw caution to the wind, having reached a certain age, hence the emergence of the so called â€˜Male MenoPorscheâ€™ :roll:

Joe


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

tehdarkstar said:


> TTCool said:
> 
> 
> > Joe, I appreciate your opinions, but this time I think I'm in a better position to judge what is best for me.


Good morning

You are right, of course.

It used to be said that it is the prerogative of old people like me to advise the young :roll: I have been a keen observer of life in general and by the time you reach my age you believe you have seen everything, but often there are still things to learn.

I wish you good health, good luck and happiness.

Edit: and prosperity 

Joe


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## mark88 (May 7, 2006)

caney said:


> it always amazes me in the other marques section :roll: so many posts from people who own a 25-30k motors, then all of a sudden you can buy 60-80k cars  i must be in the wrong job


Anyone can buy expensive cars, especially if you buy the right one at the right time.

If you think about it, the only thing you need to be able to afford is the running costs and depreciation. I hazard a guess most people on here don't pay for their cars with 100% cash so if you're financing it's rather easy, and if you're already runnning an Â£30k car, even easier.

I went from a Â£20k car to a Â£50k recently. I paid for the Â£20k car in cash, finding Â£50k cash is rather different and has major drawbacks so I took a balanced payments finance deal with a baloon payment. Â£50k car or Â£80k. Just a couple hundred extra a month.

I missed the boat with the R8. I had a chance to order one when there wasn't any waiting list. Now there is and I'd rather like one. If I could get one early then I'd run it for a few months and get rid while demand is still high.

The problem is there's no way I want a new one after it's been out 2 years. Just as I wouldn't buy a new Vantage now. The V10 R8 is gonna be what, 100k?....for that amount of cash I wouldn't be looking at Audi.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

mark88 said:


> caney said:
> 
> 
> > it always amazes me in the other marques section :roll: so many posts from people who own a 25-30k motors, then all of a sudden you can buy 60-80k cars  i must be in the wrong job
> ...


Mostly true enough...

I don't feel the need to justify my circumstances to anyone other than myself - but lets just say that, for those willing to take a smallish gamble, the demand for the R8 (as it currently stands) should be sufficient to make it the "car du jour" for a while yet.

Magazine reviewers continually place it in the same context as the 911 as a driver's car, (and that now includes a raft of publications that can usually be trusted) but it has the unique looks and niche market profile that the original TT managed 7-8 years ago.

If you judge a car on what it will actually cost to run over a fixed period, and not on the headline list price, its easier to make a reasoned and rational judgement on whether or not a particular car "costs" more than any other. The only difference is, there is an element of risk in judging future residual values, and knowing when the market (in general, or for that specific car) is going to start dropping.

I disagree that "anyone" can buy expensive cars, though. It isn't quite that clear cut. You have to be able to afford the monthly payments (especially if you aren't planning to sink a reasonable deposit in) and you have to factor in the cost of the finance itself, which wouldn't be inconsiderable on an Â£85k car, if you try and finance all of it... and then you also have to be able to sell quickly if the market starts wobbling.

The other car I'm strongly considering in the interim is a Range Rover Sport - the TDv8 has also had sizeable waiting lists, strong demand and low depreciation. The diesel RRS was in the top 10 least depreciating cars this year. Doesn't exactly make it as cheap as chips, but its a good prospect nonetheless.


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## mark88 (May 7, 2006)

jampott said:


> You have to be able to afford the monthly payments


quite right, I grouped those are runnings costs. :wink:


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

It has to be said that some people still spend more money on cars than they can really afford.

It is their decision of course to do so, but it is so strange to me to own a nice car but live in rented accommodation. :roll:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

mark88 said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > You have to be able to afford the monthly payments
> ...


Yeah, but on outright finance, an Â£85k car will cost probably 3x what a Â£30k car costs per month.

Granted only a "couple of hundred" more than a Â£50k car, but then again, a Â£50k car is a "couple of hundred" more than a Â£30k car.

So there is a large gap between Â£30k and Â£85k, however you look at it.

When I bought my TT, in 2001, it was towards the limit of what I could afford to spend on a car. Finding another "couple of hundred" quid to get a Â£50k car would have been totally out of the question. Finding ANOTHER "couple of hundred" quid would have also covered my mortgage at the time (!)

Be thankful that a "couple of hundred" quid doesn't mean much to you. To others, its a huge amount of money... :wink:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

vlastan said:


> It has to be said that some people still spend more money on cars than they can really afford.
> 
> It is their decision of course to do so, but it is so strange to me to own a nice car but live in rented accommodation. :roll:


That's true in part, but not everyone wants to own their own house, for a variety of reasons.


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## mark88 (May 7, 2006)

jampott said:


> mark88 said:
> 
> 
> > jampott said:
> ...


This goes back to the right car at the right time thing.

Someone buying a specced up Audi S3 at Â£30k could lose more than someone buying an Â£80k R8 at launch time in the same period.

If you can afford the running costs/monthly payments on the R8 and sell at the right time, you could have owned the car for X months and only had to pay interest on what you borred for those X months.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

mark88 said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > mark88 said:
> ...


But if they can't afford to spend probably 3x the monthly payment of the S3, they can't buy the R8. Simple as.

Finding what probably amounts to something like an extra Â£600+ per month isn't the easiest thing to do...


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## mark88 (May 7, 2006)

ofcourse but we are talking about people who change their cars a lot aren't we? or was that another post...?

If you wanna run an R8 for 4-6 months, up from a TT then it doesn't seem that *much* more to source a few hunded quid more for a few months, especially knowing you'll get most of the capital back in 6 months time when you sell it. If the demand is as expected.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

mark88 said:


> ofcourse but we are talking about people who change their cars a lot aren't we? or was that another post...?
> 
> If you wanna run an R8 for 4-6 months, up from a TT then it doesn't seem that *much* more to source a few hunded quid more for a few months, especially knowing you'll get most of the capital back in 6 months time when you sell it. If the demand is as expected.


If the TT was already top of your budget, I still don't think you can source "a few hundred quid more", even just for 4-6 months. I reckon its at least Â£600 a month. There's no capital to get back, as we're assuming this hypothetical person doesn't have the capital to put in in the first place, and we are assuming that the car will still depreciate a little during this period. But the capital element is a moot point if you can't find the Â£2500-Â£3000 in extra repayments over the period.


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

Just to add my 2p to this "affordable or not" discussion, I agree with *jampott* in that it's not as clear cut as that. Running an Â£85K car will cost more not only on finance if you go that way, but also insurance, fuel, maintenance and etc.

I don't think the R8 will be as strong in the 2nd hand market. It's an Audi that costs V8 Vantage's money and you can expect a lot of people not willing to explain at a party that their car is not the sport version of Audi's biggest limo. If I was going to buy a car considering resale I would probably stick with Porsche (even though I may be wrong).

I don't think I will be replacing this car any soon. It will take me 2 years to get it and I will use it so little that I think it's going to be the car that I will run for many years. If Evo is right on what they said about the R8, it's the best handling car in the market under Â£120K, therefore I think I will be happy.


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## Guest (May 28, 2007)

tehdarkstar said:


> Just to add my 2p to this "affordable or not" discussion, I agree with *jampott* in that it's not as clear cut as that. Running an Â£85K car will cost more not only on finance if you go that way, but also insurance, fuel, maintenance and etc.
> 
> I don't think the R8 will be as strong in the 2nd hand market. It's an Audi that costs V8 Vantage's money and you can expect a lot of people not willing to explain at a party that their car is not the sport version of Audi's biggest limo. If I was going to buy a car considering resale I would probably stick with Porsche (even though I may be wrong).
> 
> I don't think I will be replacing this car any soon. It will take me 2 years to get it and I will use it so little that I think it's going to be the car that I will run for many years. If Evo is right on what they said about the R8, it's the best handling car in the market under Â£120K, therefore I think I will be happy.


Thats the spirit. Your only here once.
However, if you'd have ordered earlier you wouldnt have to worry about depreciation, you'd be making a profit on delivery.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

The insurance, fuel and maintenence won't cost (me) any more than my S4 has, give or take a little here and there. We aren't talking Ferrari or Porsche service costs / intervals, or TVR engine rebuilds - just the normal Audi stuff.

Cars are all based on reputation. The B5 RS4 is hugely valuable in the 2nd hand market. A 6+ year old example still commands well over Â£20k in good condition, on a car with an original list price of around Â£46k (IIRC).

Why? It was the best car in its class, and was produced in limited numbers. So Audi can:

a) get it right, once in a while
b) command stupendous residuals for the right car

I wouldn't bet my house on it, obviously - and I guess that's what I'm trying to say - but the signs are good.


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## M T Pickering (Aug 11, 2004)

Whatever you "Buy" I hope you all enjoy your new cars and remember how lucky you are


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

M T Pickering said:


> Whatever you "Buy" I hope you all enjoy your new cars and remember how lucky you are


You'd buy one too, if they did it in the right colour blue. :lol:


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> The insurance, fuel and maintenence won't cost (me) any more than my S4 has, give or take a little here and there.


I think you may be surprised. I expected an RS4 to be similar to an S4 but it seems it's a chunk more. Not least of this are the tyres. You'll certainly notice this...if you have it long enough.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

scoTTy said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > The insurance, fuel and maintenence won't cost (me) any more than my S4 has, give or take a little here and there.
> ...


I've not done astronomical mileage in the S4, and am unlikely to rack it up in the R8 either...


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## S10TYG (Mar 7, 2007)

kmpowell said:


> Think of it more as 2 years to come to your senses, as you watch the scary reality of harsh depreciation once the novelty factor of this overstyled cliche on wheels wears off.


Why do some people not understand that you don't buy a car as an investment or to make money? You fat brain.

It is for pleasure. Money gets earnt to get spent.


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## V6 TT (Sep 24, 2002)

jampott said:


> We aren't talking Ferrari or Porsche service costs


...Porsche are in no way anywhere near to Ferrari servicing costs and these days more in line with Audi price and interval wise and not a great deal more than my old 6'er TT. I'd be betting a V8 R8 will cost more than my 997S... have they released this info yet?

Tyres are the biggest thing you'll notice if your 19's are anywhere as wide as me Porkers!

D


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

digimeisTTer said:


> some people like the attention and even then have to ask everyone their opinion every six months in case they make the wrong choice :wink: :lol:


*Now just whom could you be referring to. * :?: :?: :?: :wink:

On finance, circumstances etc, people do different things at different life stages. Once kids, schools, bigger house come in to equation, car frivolity halts in it's tracks. It's pretty hard to justify "yep i'm gonna knowingly blow Â£15K in car dep'n this year 'cos i want the latest, greatest etc. But plenty do.

And plenty (with or without kids) etc can easily go from a 30K car to a 80K car - just fiddle with the deposit and baloon a bit, screw yer finance house down on the rates and hey presto, you 'own' a Â£60K car. It's not that prohibitive.

There are also those who have and make the money and are happy to blow it on cars while they can.

P21 supercar club or similar actually makes good sense when you are prepared to lose Â£15K -Â£20k from a new supercars value in one year.

On status, I know a handful of quite wealthy persons (my yardstick net worth >Â£10m. None of these drive Â£80K cars. Conversely, in my business life (IT Storage) I know loads of youngish sales people who are single, make Â£100K a year, drive Â£70K-Â£80K cars and live in relatively shitty little rented studio appartments and are stil skint most of the time.

It's all about priorities.


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

garyc said:


> It's all about priorities.


Well versed.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> tehdarkstar said:
> 
> 
> > Now I've got two years to wait and drool before I get my car...
> ...


In one.

[smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

On the other hand, "if you've got it, spend it." :lol:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

...while you can. :wink:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

garyc said:


> ...while you can. :wink:


Now *that* I'll agree with 

All the rest is sour grapes from wannabe GT3 or 997TT owners who are in denial that the base level R8 with standard suspension and a manual gearbox is faster round a track. :lol:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Is the R8 faster around a track? Any track, or did it just win by an overly elongated nose on one track on a very dry and warm day?

Well done tho. Commendable result.

Let's see one pop a Ring lap any where near an old M3CSL (7.50) or a GT3 (7.39) or even less than 8 mins. Then I am impressed.

You probably missed this weeks Autocar Veyron, Gallardo, R8, GT3rs, and AM V8 test.

<<try to take on a GT3rs in an R8 and you will very quickly come unstuck>>

Different takes.

But I am sure its the dogs' at Bedford and on the high street this year. So it should be for Â£85K. :wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> Is the R8 faster around a track? Any track, or did it just win by an overly elongated nose on one track on a very dry and warm day?
> 
> Well done tho. Commendable result.
> 
> ...


Yes but Gary, let's be honest in that the GT3 RS is a tad more track focussed that the other cars listed is it not?? We know how the current CSL has taken many a car's crown at Nordschleife (although it's only 1 second quicker than an RS4  ) & the GT3/RS puts in even better times.

Agree with you to a point & i'd to a degree defend the R8 up to the point of it being a shocker the cars it can dispatch.

Comparing the R8 to a C4S & even a Turbo is OK & i suppose the Gallardo & AMV8 make sense & the R8 appears to be holding it's own in that company which for an initial stab by normal Audi at a supercar is fairly good going & the fact it's (depending on what you read) matching the 997 or even taking it's crown as best all-round sports car is quite a feat.

I agree it would be good to see a Ring Lap time (keep listening in September as i may have a shocker for you :wink: ),


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

tehdarkstar said:


> Well, I wanted a supercar for a few months now and a few weeks ago I was invited by my Porsche dealer to test the Boxter S, Cayman S and C2S in a race track near Cobham.
> 
> After that drive I was nearly convinced to go for the Cayman S, due to its balance and overall feel on the trace track (less of a handfull than the C2S). What didn't convince me was spending over Â£20K in options to get all the bits I wanted like ceramic brakes, PASM and etc.
> 
> ...


Well done and congrats. Not sure I'd buy one personally without having first test driven it. Mind you you have time.  A lot can happen in 2 years! Bloody Audi are getting as bad as Ferrari for deliveries nowadays. Never thought I'd see the day. Congrats again.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > Is the R8 faster around a track? Any track, or did it just win by an overly elongated nose on one track on a very dry and warm day?
> ...


GT3rs agreed is hardcore track car. Agreed that Audi have produced an Â£85K competitor.

GT3 regular at Â£79K list with PASM is more comfotable riding than reg C4S, has all the aircon/hi fi/cruise extra trimmings and makes the best price point comparison to the R8 from anything in the Porsche range.

Rather than focussing on a model (C2/4) that is nearly Â£15K cheaper than the R8 (forgetting the absudly priced 25hp Â£8K Porsche Power Option), and does really stand in a class of it's own, I'd have thought the GT3 in road spec is the best price-positioned rival to the R8. Costs are similar (Â£76K list vs Â£79K list), power outputs the same (425hp, 414hp).

...customers less similar. I'd wager not many R8s ever get tracked or even driven in anger. More of a poseurs thing.

I am old enough to remember the fanfare with which the Honda NSX arrived. Senna test pilot, sensible mid engined config, light comfortable, accessable performance, long wheelbase looks, Honda quality - oh, and Â£75K then for 250hp 3.0V6 engine form Legend. It was quickish (rapid on track in R spec, had a great chassis and rattled the competition from Germany and Italy. But ultimately it was an over-priced Honda and just not special enough (car or Brand) to tempt enough customers to make serious inroads to the established competition.

Apart from the debatable point that both the NSX and R8 are dreadful-looking and do not have bespoke engines, having to rely on other cheaper donor cars, I see many parallels with the R8 and NSX programs.

It's still good that the mass brands come and have a serious go tho. I really liked the new Ford GT40 - but they can't make a success or money out of that either.

I wonder how a sub Â£100K mid engined (m3 V8 or M5 V10) updated BMW M1 would fare?

BTW has a new RS4 popped a 7.51 Ring lap time? Impressed. Best I could find was an 7.58 accredited to Frank Stippler using Cup tyres, which is still v good and sounds about right.

Exceptional drive from a seasoned Ring campaigner in the Rohrl vein and leagues ahead of us mere mortals:

Great precise lap:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

ResB said:


> tehdarkstar said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I wanted a supercar for a few months now and a few weeks ago I was invited by my Porsche dealer to test the Boxter S, Cayman S and C2S in a race track near Cobham.
> ...


Spending Â£20K on Cayman options would not be sensible. Ceramic brakes (nice for track work but OTT for road) are an expensive option on any car and the costs have not tumbled as expected and as did ABS etc)

V. brave buying before trying. I couldn't spend that amount with turning a wheel. Will there be an Audi Experience day for waiting R8 customers as there was for RS4? I presume Audi will have ceramic brakes and all the options you want available for your delivery time?

And why not test drive a GT3 while you are waiting? :wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > garyc said:
> ...


No idea Gary on the B7 RS4's best Ring time, i just recall reading on here a few weeks back (can't recall who posted) that the B7 RS4 had lapped just 1 second slower than the CSL's best lap & that was alot quicker than the standard or CS M3 variants as well as the M5 & RS6. Was just quoting what i read.

Will be trying to get my times down to respectable levels in September, however only likely to get down to 8:30/45 me thinks (hopes)


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

garyc said:


> . . .Apart from the debatable point that both the NSX and R8 are dreadful-looking. . .


 :lol: :lol: :lol: You really have got it in for the R8 haven't you Gary.

Dreadful looking? I suppose it's just the same feelings I have with any Porsche or Merc so fair play I guess.

Graham


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

Love_iTT said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > . . .Apart from the debatable point that both the NSX and R8 are dreadful-looking. . .
> ...


You gotta agree, the front of the R8 is, well, it's not pretty is it. Might grow on you but I'm struggling with it still.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Clarkson loves it .... which probably means it will be seriously un-cool :wink:

Sunday Times Column

[edit]
Doh! Just seen the other thread this is posted in

[/edit]


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> Clarkson loves it .... which probably means it will be seriously un-cool :wink:
> 
> Sunday Times Column
> 
> ...


James May hates it - which possibly doent mean much. :wink:

<<I know almost everyone is terribly excited about the new Audi R8 - .......... It's all very well from the nose all the way to the rear edge of the doors, but thenâ€¦ What is it? Too long? Slightly too broad? Whatever it is, its makers have drawn attention to it by painting that bit of it in a contrasting shade....................................................
the problem with the Audi. I know they keep wittering on about how much they've modified the weight distribution, and I know it has a different engine, but in the end it's based on the Lamborghini Gallardo, which was designed as a Lamborghini Gallardo and looks better as one. I know platform-sharing is supposed to be the saviour of the car industry, but this platform only seems to work in its original incarnation and won't tolerate a second coming. It just doesn't quite work.>>


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Love_iTT said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > . . .Apart from the debatable point that both the NSX and R8 are dreadful-looking. . .
> ...


Well I do seem to be in a minority. :wink: I think it is just KMP, James May and myself who struggle to decode the R8 as anything remotely attractive beyond the sum of its' parts. The whole is ghastly imo.

But my feelings are specific to the R8 and I would not make a sweeping generalisation across the whole Audi brand, as you possibly would for Merc and Porsche. And I think you may be in a minority dissing all Mercs and Porsches.

MB particularly are raising their game again.

I really like the CLK AMG 63 Black series:



















I saw the new C class in Monaco a couple of weeks back and it looks very good - at least as good the 3 series or A4 I thought.










As i recall you liked a PT Cruiser sufficiently to buy one for Mrs Lovitt? That was (still is..) a car that was 'different' and 'interesting' (to some).










...so our tastes are most certainly different. 1987 Renault 5 GT Turbo metallic blue hue would not float my boat for a new Audi either. :wink:

BUT, you are of course entirley vindicated on all matters of taste by your lovely classy Vespa:










Timeless. Classic. Unlike the R8.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

garyc said:


> scoTTy said:
> 
> 
> > Clarkson loves it .... which probably means it will be seriously un-cool :wink:
> ...


Ditto, so i posted the full damning article.


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