# Catch can & PCV - one last question!!



## ProjectMick (Sep 29, 2015)

Evening

I have been doing much reading on catch cans, pcv deletes and the like, and having managed to confuse myself more than when I began, I have a couple of questions that hopefully someone can answer!

My catch can is now in place, but before I do the pipework I was wondering if there was a way of deleting the PCV valve, but retaining the brake booster? Is it possible to keep the suction pump and just cap off the smaller tee that would have led to the PCV valve (I'm assuming this would pretty much negate any point in having the pump) - if so, can I delete the pump altogether and just install a single check valve in its place?

I'm just wondering if either of these would be worth doing rather than just capping under the manifold?

Would be quite useful if I could as it would help clear up the maze of pipes under the manifold whilst retaining some function.

If not I'll just rip it all out but thought I'd ask first.

Cheers


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## ProjectMick (Sep 29, 2015)

Thought I'd add a couple of pics to help explain what I'm talking about.

Here is the BAM system in its normal configuration.










This is what I am proposing - removal of the suction jet pump, the PCV valve will be gone (will just be a pipe direct to the catch can) and then I was thinking I could just hook a pipe back up from under the inlet manifold to the spot just before the pipe tees off at the check valve.










Any issues doing this? Will it have a similar effect to having the suction pump installed (albeit not quite as effective maybe)


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

Why do you want to do this?

If you take out the suction jet pump and then the PCV valve how are you going to stop all the manifold pressure going straight to the catch can when you are under boost?

I have binned a lot of that pipework on my set up but i have kept both of those things.


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

Some idiots on vortex will tell you that it's fine to delete/bypass the suction Jet pump (SJP), but this is not something that can or should be done without having something else to replace its function. The SCJ (via venturi) provides the booster line with an auxiliary vacuum source. This is important in a turbo car because the brake assist system can get depleted of vacuum while the engine is operating in positive pressure (boost). Unexpectedly running out of vacuum assist for your brakes is not particularly a fun experience.

PS: I have deleted mine for track use because it is failure-prone piece -- but also replaced it with a turbo vacuum source, and also added 50% more booster reserve via an auxiliary reservoir.


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

Matt B said:


> Why do you want to do this?
> 
> If you take out the suction jet pump and then the PCV valve how are you going to stop all the manifold pressure going straight to the catch can when you are under boost?
> 
> I have binned a lot of that pipework on my set up but i have kept both of those things.


Totally agree Matt! At least pressurizing the can is not dangerous, the SJP function to the brake assist can lead to a disaster.


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## ProjectMick (Sep 29, 2015)

Thanks guys - I definitely do not want to lose the additional braking but am still unsure as to how all the pipework under there operates (hence the questions!) I wasn't sure if just taking a feed directly from the manifold would be sufficient for the brake booster. I was probably looking at the system a little to simplistically though to be fair.

I was actually wondering about the possible crankcase issue when deleting the PCV as I had seen another thread on it somewhere but was going to ask about that a little later!

Not to worry, I am happy to keep both the suction jet pump and the PCV valve if they are required - just wish they were a little easier to get to for maintenance!

Thanks again.


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## ProjectMick (Sep 29, 2015)

Sorry Matt - it would be nice to get rid of some of the pipework though - do you have any pictures etc of how you routed everything by any chance? Thats the main aim really - to reduce/simplify the pipework rather than just bin everything.

Also Max, without getting too technical on me as I'm an engine newbie lol how did you set your system up - one reason I have seen for deletion is that it isn't very reliable (mine looks very oily hence the original question about deleting)

I wouldn't mind getting rid of it but only if I can replace it with an equivalent setup.

Unfortunately the only catch can install threads I have come across have just binned everything. I do want to try and retain as much as I can systems wise, but don't want to just experiment with things I don't understand fully!


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## ProjectMick (Sep 29, 2015)

Just a quick thread bump to see if there is anyone who has deleted or relocated the suction jet pump that could share their setup if possible. (Pics are good as I am a visual learner!)

I don't mind deleting the pump but not without at least replacing it with a suitable alternative (based on the advice above)

Will be keeping PCV valve and having a catch can vented to TIP as I have read that venting to atmosphere doesn't provide enough pressure/vacuum - not sure how accurate this is but I'm happy venting to the TIP.

All I'm trying to do is get all the little bits a bobs fixed/replaced and running right before I look at getting it the car mapped.

Any advice appreciated!


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... orrect-way

Have a read of this. I haven't set up as the guy in the thread suggests but there is lots of useful info


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## ProjectMick (Sep 29, 2015)

Matt B said:


> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6077892-How-to-install-a-catch-can-the-correct-way
> 
> Have a read of this. I haven't set up as the guy in the thread suggests but there is lots of useful info


Thanks for that Matt - I did have a read of that before and got myself a little confused lol! Have read through it again though and I think I get the idea. Typical Vortex thread though as it descends into chaos a couple of pages in!

I have ordered a new suction jet pump as they aren't expensive and I'm almost certain mine is the original one so might as well do it while it's all out!

Just to check if I'm reading the diagram correctly, there is a T fitting just after the catch can outlet that branches off back to the suction jet pump (13mm pipe), then the PCV valve is placed after that T section, just before the TIP, instead of it being in the location under the manifold?

That setup removes the black hockey puck valve completely by replacing it with a PCV valve, or you can run the hockey puck instead of a PCV valve (so again the PCV valve would be deleted?)

Do you see any glaring issues with running with the hockey puck and no PCV in that configuration? The only reason I ask is that on that setup it seems as though the PCV valve is sort of bodged into place whereas the hockey puck would just fit as normal.

Like I said I'm still learning but I like to try and understand what I'm doing to my car!

Sorry for the continued questions, I only want to do this once if I can help it!


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## ProjectMick (Sep 29, 2015)

Really sorry guys, one last look at this before I start buying the parts I need. I have come across the following diagram thanks to Matt, and am happy enough with the way it looks and seems to work.










I would be keeping the "hockey puck" instead of putting a PCV valve there, and would have the PCV valve where the orange check valve is on the diagram. That seems closer to OEM than the above.

My ONLY question now is what happens to the nipple under the manifold (the 10mm one) that the thin end of the suction jet pump is currently attached to? Is that blanked off or would the pump still attach to it?

It seems on the diagram that the larger end attaches to the hose coming from the back of the engine bay, and the other end just attaches to the port on the side of the manifold.

Just want to double check this, as I quite like my brakes!


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## cryptopsy (Jul 11, 2017)

Did you find the answer to your question?


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