# Marriage problems



## temporary username (Apr 15, 2004)

I've logged as a new user cos this is a bit of a tricky issue. Just to say that I've been a member of this Forum for a number of years and it's too valuable a source of info not to ask for your advice.

My marriage is going very badly and it looks like a divorce could be on the cards.

My question is what happens next? It's very amicable at the moment, and I hope it won't turn nasty in any way. However, I've seen friends go through very expensive divorces, and I'm just wondering what I can do to minimise any damage (or at least be prepared for what happens next). I haven't talked to a solicitor yet, and as far as I'm aware, neither has my wife.

Any advice much appreciated. Equally, if this is not appropriate for a public forum, please feel free to flame me....


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

temporary username said:


> I've logged as a new user cos this is a bit of a tricky issue. Just to say that I've been a member of this Forum for a number of years and it's too valuable a source of info not to ask for your advice.
> 
> My marriage is going very badly and it looks like a divorce could be on the cards.
> 
> ...


If there are no kids involved, then simply keep it amicable and play fair. Know and understand the financial implications (joint equity etc) - sit down and do the sums and see if you can reach a fair conclusion.

I had a relationship break down almost 2 years ago. It wasn't a marriage, but we'd lived together for a fair number of years, resulting in a lot of shared possessions, property, cars, animals etc. We were able to agree a financial settlement which enabled her to buy somewhere else, whilst I kept the house, the dogs, the cats and most of the furniture...

If there are kids, however, I guess things might get a little trickier - but again, nothing that can't be worked out amicably. I would recommend, however, that whatever you verbally agree to, it is still worth getting a quick bit of legal advice and having a solicitor draw up a separation agreement outlining who gets what, and what each others' responsibilities are regarding the kids (if there are any) - but this is less important if it is just the 2 of you...

Keep your chin up, don't do anything rash, don't try to score points, don't try to screw the other person for more than your "share" - but ultimately don't walk away with less than you are entitled to...

Good luck, and you have my sympathy... its not a great thing to go through, but one which you WILL come out of stronger.


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

sorry to hear that.

Well put Jampott.

Only thing I can add would be to make sure you try to sort things faster than slower and dont move out until you know who gets the house or its sold. My bro-inlaw moved out and it took him another 2 years to force the sale of the house and he had to pay rent all that time... all very unfair.

so just keep things fair and as long as she does the same you will be ok.


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## temporary username (Apr 15, 2004)

Thanks Tim and Jon for the replies.

No kids involved - of course that's when it become really complicated I suppose. The really embarrassing thing is that we have not been married for very long - I don't think either of us can believe it has come to this.

I think good advice just to sit down and discuss, and not to do anything rash. Really appreciate your comments.


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## Dogmatic6 (May 7, 2002)

I went through a divorce 5yrs ago.

We talked it through & decided who should get what & who should pay for what. It was all very easy & there wasn't really any issues......or so I thought.

3 months down the line my ex stopped paying her half of the loans etc, things got very nasty.

Best advise I can give is to speak to a divorce lawer asap & if you do go down the divorce route then get a proper seperation agreement drawn up so there are no arguments or come back further down the line.

@ the end of the day, for me it was the best decision I ever made, although a lot of hassle it was the right thing to do.

Good luck m8


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## Dogmatic6 (May 7, 2002)

forgot to say

I had been married for a grand total of 14 months although we had been living together for 3 years.

theres no good time to get divorced but theres also no point in staying in a marriage your not commited too.

cheers

Mark


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

As per previous post, get everything down and in writing that you verbally agree asap especially when it comes to assets/liabilities, agreements and trade offs. You need a lawyer so does your wife. If you can agree on terms _before_ you go to the lawyers, you will save quite a lot, and you can then just instruct them with your joint wishes - otherwise you will both pay for them to negotiate, and that can cost more than some of the assets under discussion are actually worth.

Good luck, sorry it's gone wrong for you both, and accept the fact that things may not stay amicable once lawyers and Â£Â£s are involved. Make the most of the calmness now and act fast to get agreement in what is best for bothe of you.

Oh, and don't go tearing off into another relationship if you have any sense. A few months on ones own after a Biggy, is time very well spent.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Dogmatic6 said:


> I went through a divorce 5yrs ago.
> 
> We talked it through & decided who should get what & who should pay for what. It was all very easy & there wasn't really any issues......or so I thought.
> 
> ...


I think the "error" there was not actually fully extricating your financial position properly, and simply relying on "good will"...

If you have any joint payments / loans / accounts, it is always worth closing them down. You might have to refinance to get a loan into 1 person's name, or both sign-up to closing down a joint account etc - but usually even the cost of refinancing is cheaper than the potential snags in the long run...

I certainly wouldn't want to be "half and half" responsible for a loan with an ex. We had a joint mortgage which we dissolved, and a few other bits and bobs (including 2 car loans) but we just kept the the ones we had in our own name (and thus retained responsibility) and any that were truly joint were refinanced (like the mortgage).

If things are amicable *now*, that is a good thing. But don't necessarily expect them to be the same in (say) 6 months time, 1 year, 2 years etc when either of you is dating again. Jealousy and angst make people do nasty things, and if you leave yourself in a position where they can still affect your life (like having joint responsibility for payments) you are asking for trouble somewhere down the line...


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

garyc said:


> As per previous post, get everything down and in writing that you verbally agree asap especially when it comes to assets/liabilities, agreements and trade offs. You need a lawyer so does your wife. If you can agree on terms _before_ you go to the lawyers, you will save quite a lot, and you can then just instruct them with your joint wishes - otherwise you will both pay for them to negotiate, and that can cost more than some of the assets under discussion are actually worth.
> 
> Good luck, sorry it's gone wrong for you both, and accept the fact that things may not stay amicable once lawyers and Â£Â£s are involved. Make the most of the calmness now and act fast to get agreement in what is best for bothe of you.
> 
> Oh, and don't go tearing off into another relationship if you have any sense. A few months on ones own after a Biggy, is time very well spent.


Agree with garyc - thats essentially what I was trying to say. Agree things first, and take this to your solicitor(s) to write up formally. A separation agreement needn't be binding for divorce though, but you are going to have to wait a while for a divorce anyway, so best get separation done first!

As for tearing off into another relationship... yeah, that too... That's when pinball tables, Kef eggs etc can be bought (noone was around to tell me NOT to spend my money on stuff like that!) - let off a bit of steam, and find your feet...


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## John C (Jul 5, 2002)

Just to put my work hat on for a coupe of mins with a few Bank things which some people forget at times like this.

Hopefully for you this will be irrelevant and as you say things will stay amicable however....

Joint Bank accounts are normally set up as 'Either or Survivor', which means either party can do anything with the account they want. This includes clearing out the entire balance, closing the account, removing the other party without their consent, like I say anything they want. If your Salary goes into this account then it can also be taken out by either party 1 second after. And if the account is closed by the other party a trip to the cash machine will result in your wallet still being empty.

Sorry for the doom and gloom but having an 'escape fund' in your own name could prove useful.

Also Credit Cards, most people forget that legally Credit Cards cannot be jointly held. If you both have a card on the same account one of you will be the Account Holder and the other the 'Additional Card Holder'. If you are the former then you are wholly liable for the debt and the Additional Card Holder is not responsible for anything.

Finally other debts in joint names are (usually) held on a 'joint and several' basis which means the finance company will purse the full debt form both of you. If one cannot pay the debt they will look to the other for full repayment not just half.

Sorry if this is pointing out the obvious but in my Branch days (long time ago) I had many a person totally oblivious to these facts.

And finally, to reiterate, hopefully this is all a waste of time and then amicability of the situation will continue.

John


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

The other bit of priority advice these guys forgot to tell you was to keep your very best friend who you can never argue with, disagree with and always love..... ya TT


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

jacTT225 said:


> Just to put my work hat on for a coupe of mins with a few Bank things which some people forget at times like this.
> 
> Hopefully for you this will be irrelevant and as you say things will stay amicable however....
> 
> ...


Useful advice, Jon...

Citibank needed (or at least wante) both our permissions to close the account down... but certainly agree with credit cards etc.

Now is a good time to change any passwords / pin numbers. Remove any additional credit card users, change which account your salary is paid into...

But I would still sit down and discuss what you are doing. And encourage your partner to do the same. You don't want them trying to use the credit card, finding you've stopped it, and thinking you are pulling a fast one. I'd be honest about it, make sure they do the same, and protect each other from any potential fallout...


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

Sorry to hear this. I would try a Mediator before you get into Solicitors - if you check on the Relate website there is a lot of information which you may find of use. www.relate.org

Since you don't have children it will be less complicated hopefully, but still obviously painful. Good luck - see if you can work things out first.


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

Sorry to hear this who ever you are, it's never easy no matter how long you were married and it will get messy as most do but you can limit it and once all is sorted the preasure will be off both of you.
If there are no kids involved the easiest thing is to do it all your self but only if both of you are happy and things are amicable. Simply get the forms from your local court and fill them in and return cost around Â£100, you will have to decided on who's divorcing who and for what reason. I would consult a solicitor at this point just to help with the filling in of forms and its free for the 1st hr.
Regading the house and possesions get the property valued by 3 or 4 estate agents and settle on the middle valuation as for the possesions anything you or she had prior to moving intogether is the that persons anything bought after this time should be divided up between the two of you. Me and my ex went round the house with little stickers putting a value on every single item then bassically totalled it all up divided between two and then basically bought everthing back that we wanted until our amouts had been spent. Saying that we did have an arguement over who went first....lol.

Hope everything works out
Jonah


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Gary's Practical Tip:

I was with a girl for 10 years before she had good taste to run off with a marauding Dutchman. After the spilt, everything was sorted amicably (house, chattels, debts etc) and I got her to waive rights to the two endowments we had going against out property, which I then remortgaged. My solicitor pointed out that I should not take her name off of the endowments although she had signed away any claim. Reason? Well, if anything happens to her (and I wouldn't wish it), her life is _still_ insured and pays out to my half of the endowment. One matures in 2 years, the other in 4 years anyway, but it would have been pointless to not continue cover for her.


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## Chris_TTC_546 (May 7, 2002)

The first question the both of you need to answer is :- Do you want to save the marriage?

If the answer is Yes:-
Then sit down and talk about it together without argueing. Not listening and understanding each others needs/wants is often where the communication breakdown occurs

If you can't sit down without argueing, then Relate is the next step. Relate wil let each person talk without it becoming a battleground. It's tough emotionally but worth it. This can be a lengthy process and a lot of hurt will come flying your way - it takes 2 to break a relationship.

If the answer is No, still go to Relate. You never know.

If, after all this, you both decide to call it a day - only then look at your financial situation and call in the solicitors

How do I know all this? I've been there, done that and have come out the other side with marriage intact and even better than before. I can honestly say I'm happier than I have ever been.


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## DiTTo (Apr 15, 2004)

temporary username said:


> I've logged as a new user cos this is a bit of a tricky issue. Just to say that I've been a member of this Forum for a number of years and it's too valuable a source of info not to ask for your advice.
> 
> My marriage is going very badly and it looks like a divorce could be on the cards.
> 
> ...


I know how you're feeling. 

We've been putting off the inevitable for sometime. Staying together we are only making each other miserable and we both deserve better than that.

I'm just trying to stay as calm as possible, for as long as I can. Taking things a day at a time, no rush moves or decisions and getting things straight in my own mind before moving onto the next stage.

Good luck, temporary username. I'm sure things will work out for the best in the end, they usually do


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## John C (Jul 5, 2002)

jampott said:


> Useful advice, Jon...
> 
> Citibank needed (or at least wante) both our permissions to close the account down... but certainly agree with credit cards etc.


Tim, would agree with 'wanted' rather then 'needed'! But a fair point here, all Banks have subtly different Terms and Conditions on accounts and also different Operating Mandates. This means in your circumstances it is worth checking out whether all or some of my post is true and relevant.

Some joint accounts are set up with both parties having to sign for everything!


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

Bit of a relaTTe forum in a way!!!

Some good advice though, but I think the key to it is in the staying amicable bit if you can.

It worked for me and even though divorced for 9 years now, we still have contact through the kids and meet up quite regular and we get on better now than we ever did and we both have new partners.

(Wouldn't get married again though..bugger that)..


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## t7 (Nov 2, 2002)

Good luck - life really is too short...

My tips/advice (from my not-too-bitter experience):

Put it all in writing and agree it before you first walk into your respective solicitors - youll prob still end up with a four figure bill but at least you won't pay them to argue the toss about who gets the food processor!

Depending on the grounds for your divorce one of you will have to do far more admin than the other. Ironically if you are divorcing due to adultery the non-adulterous partner has to do all of the initial leg-work. That's if they want to. Things can get very slow if they don't feel like it.

Be prepared to give a little. Its not worth souring the whole relationship for the sake of the last Â£50. Yes you might be leaving money on the table but its probably worth it in the long run. You also get to occupy the moral high ground - a position I prefer.

Don't regret it - life would be extremely dull if we never changed our minds or took a different direction. Just because it isnt working now doenst make the past a mistake - don't let people tell you you have a "failed" marriage.

Cultivate new friends - sometimes its easier spending time with friends who dont have all the emotional vested interest in the split. They just accept you for what you are now, not what you have been.

I think posting was a great idea - wish I'd thought of it as I value the varied opinions of the forum "oracle". Mostly :wink: .

Louise


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

fully agree with Louise - espec on the bit about friends.

Believe me - it's a real pisser to have been confiding in your best mate about what's happening in the divorce - only to find out that he is actually *her* best mate......... :evil:


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## davidg (Sep 14, 2002)

t7 said:


> Good luck - life really is too short...
> 
> Louise


That is true :!:


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## kingcutter (Aug 1, 2003)

sit back and watch the sparks fly when you get a new girlfriend,you have no kids so no need to see her again once everything is sorted,good luck.


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## properperson (Apr 14, 2004)

In my experience, its cheaper to have them shot !


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## temporary username (Apr 15, 2004)

Thanks for all the replies. Whoever signed on as DiTTO, sorry for you too mate - I had to laugh though - I semi-envisaged a string of posts, all by similar anonymous usernames!

We've past the point of seeing anyone, that's for sure. We are being very "grown up" about it, and matter of fact, which is good. There are no kids, not *too* much history / baggage or whatever. I guess it's just time to move on.

Thanks again for all the comments.


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

I can't offer any more advice that hasn't been already given here.
So, it's just good luck to you, temporary username :-*


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## Richard (Apr 25, 2003)

Certainly puts the squeak I had fixed on the car today into perspective.

Before you go down the divorce route, just remember what brought you together in the first place. It has to be worth seeing whether there is any possibility of reconciliation. Many things are said in haste, if you've not been married very long it is easy for both to be a little headstrong.

That said, if you have both fully considered, and still want to separate, some very good advice on here, as always.


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Sorry to hear about this temporary username

Chris TTC 546 - good to hear that you saved your marriage.

Sometimes, a temporary break from each other, can help. Could one of you take a holiday or stay with a friend for a while - it's amazing what a period of reconciliation can do. It worked for us.


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