# Nurburgring in an RS6 with a sting in the tail



## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

Was really enjoying this video and wandering whether it was a good time in an RS6..

Thought I'd post it here to see what the 'ring regulars thought....but then bang.....just when I was looking forward to the long sprint at the end.....


Ouch!


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Having experienced a blow out on a quattro car, there is no way all that wear occured just from that blow out alone, he must have been driving on some SERIOUSLY worn tyres, all at those high speeds. Fool! :?


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

Never mind worn tyre did you see those brake pads at the end? 

Will I need to take a spare set?


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

It could have been the heat from thew metal on metal that caused the blow out. Spare pads always seem useful but I've never found it anywhere near as tough as a short track on tyres or pads. It's a bigger more open flowing track. Therefore 20 minutes on there is prolly like 40-60 minutes on a short track.


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

The car seemed very sure footed considering the high speed blow out. Was the left rear also flat?


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

Look like slicks to me :?


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

omen666 said:


> Never mind worn tyre did you see those brake pads at the end?
> 
> Will I need to take a spare set?


That was a good lap....wow those discs were glowing red right? 

If you have a new set put on, you should be fine, I don;t think you'll need to take an additional set


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

damon,that's what you get from chucking 2 tons of metal round a track :wink: looked fast though!


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

jonah said:


> Look like slicks to me :?


Indeed, it looks like he was running slick tyres on an old set of alloys. Judged on how badly he was driving when following the (even worse) yellow 911, it's no surprise that he went through a set of brakes.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

If that car's standard then i'm a monkeys uncle.

The Zorst note is louder in that car than mine & i had a full Sports Milltek system. It says on the clip that it's standard, but me thinks he's lying.

I thought it was quite a good lap (perhaps that's just compared to me :lol: ).


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

b3ves said:


> Indeed, it looks like he was running slick tyres on an old set of alloys.


I am looking at getting some track biased tyres for the 6, but choice is limited in 19" so I am guessing these guys went with the 18"'s as this gives you more options and reduces cost per tyre.

Waiting for a quote on some options from Demon Tweeks.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Defo the tyres, but perhaps not the wheels. Early RS6's were sold with 18" RS4 style wheels, as you can see from early press releases & spec sheets. I've no idea when they moved to the 19" RS6 styel wheels, but this mush on the video could have been using his original wheels, or maybe he has got a 2nd set.

Also heard last time i was at The Ring from another RS6 owner, that the 18" wheels are far better suited to track work than the 19", they give better feedback & actually (according to him) provided better grip. That's assuming they don't buckle :lol:


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> Defo the tyres, but perhaps not the wheels. Early RS6's were sold with 18" RS4 style wheels, as you can see from early press releases & spec sheets. I've no idea when they moved to the 19" RS6 styel wheels, but this mush on the video could have been using his original wheels, or maybe he has got a 2nd set.
> 
> Also heard last time i was at The Ring from another RS6 owner, that the 18" wheels are far better suited to track work than the 19", they give better feedback & actually (according to him) provided better grip. That's assuming they don't buckle :lol:


Bit like the TT and the 17" wheels then. :roll:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Kell said:


> W7 PMC said:
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> > Defo the tyres, but perhaps not the wheels. Early RS6's were sold with 18" RS4 style wheels, as you can see from early press releases & spec sheets. I've no idea when they moved to the 19" RS6 styel wheels, but this mush on the video could have been using his original wheels, or maybe he has got a 2nd set.
> ...


Not exactly my friend :wink:

TBH i think Audi had decided on the 19" wheels as standard for the RS6, however the 1st batch of cars were built yet the wheels were not actually produced/tested, so they put the 18" RS4 wheels on the RS6. Perhaps only a very very small number of RS6's with RS4 wheels but they're out their.

However the TT was always designed with the 17" six spokes or Comp alloys, but after a few years Audi decided on a facelift & stole the RS4's for the TT. Then lots of horrid TT owners decided to buy fake RS6 wheels & stick them on TT's :lol: :lol:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> Kell said:
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And S4s... :roll:


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

the following comment is meant in good humour....

It's like putting M5 wheels on a 535d :wink:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

omen666 said:


> the following comment is meant in good humour....
> 
> It's like putting M5 wheels on a 535d :wink:


 [smiley=stupid.gif] [smiley=stupid.gif]


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

omen666 said:


> the following comment is meant in good humour....
> 
> It's like putting M5 wheels on a 535d :wink:


& taken in good humour.

Point being i did not put the M5 style wheels on my 535D, plus they are an actual factory option, whereas RS6 wheels on TT's & S4's are not a factory option (so their :lol: )

Their are quite a few E60 owners in the US who have put replica M5 wheels on a variety of E60 models. personally i'm not into replica wheels no matter how good they look.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> omen666 said:
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> > the following comment is meant in good humour....
> ...


Actually the RS6 wheel is now the standard S-Line wheel on the A4 range, so technically could be an option on the S4.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> W7 PMC said:
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I think you'll find they are actually different. Firstly they're only 18" for the S-Line & 2nd the outer spokes are flatter & not as deep as the original RS6 wheels, so they are not the same. Similar in style, they are 5-spoke, but their the similarity ends


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> jampott said:
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So ScoTTy says, but they look so similar... :lol:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> jampott said:
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So ScoTTy says, but they look so similar... :lol:

Just like the TT "replica" RS4 wheels fitted at the factory. Almost identical to the RS4 wheels... :wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> W7 PMC said:
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Not sure about that. IIRC the newer TT wheels (s-line & 02 onwards spec) are exactly the same as the RS4 wheels, built on the same production line, same size & exactly the same style etc. They are not replicas fitted at the factory to TT's as far as i recall.

As for RS4 replicas, their are so many of these on the road now & on a variety of VAG cars (mainly Golfs) as well as non VAG, it's hard to tell & most (not all) of the replicas appear an almost exact match.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> jampott said:
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Of course the TT 9 spoke wheels, even those fitted at the factory, are "replicas" of the original design as fitted to the RS4. They aren't identical. :roll:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

You 100% sure??

I'm fairly confident they are


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> You 100% sure??
> 
> I'm fairly confident they are


Ok then, Â£50 if you can take a wheel from Clive's RS4 and fit it onto his TT.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> W7 PMC said:
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> > You 100% sure??
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Can i use any means available??

If they defo don't, then i'm happy to stand by the fact i was only confident, not 100% sure.

Perhaps the off-set is different or something like that, but you'll find visually & side by side, no differences to the eye.


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

Anyway....wasn't that RS6 going quick around the 'ring, and look at those brake pads!!!


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

omen666 said:


> Anyway....wasn't that RS6 going quick around the 'ring, and look at those brake pads!!!


You a Moderator now of summit :wink:

It was going quick (quicker than me anyway :wink: ) & the pads were fcuked, as were the tyres.

Not standard so he's a liar 8) That's about it really :lol:


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> Then lots of horrid TT owners decided to buy fake RS6 wheels & stick them on TT's :lol: :lol:


As the first person to fit them in the UK I simply say


















jampott said:


> And S4s... :roll:


I suppose I could have carried on driving around in the standard ones like you have that you don't like. I preferred to get something I like and the fact they were from an RS6 was totally irrelevant. Imagine getting wheels from a higher model eh? :roll: 



jampott said:


> W7 PMC said:
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I've always maintained they look very similar. My only comment about them was relating to a guy who disliked mine and preferred the s-line ones which I didn't understand....as they are so similar. If you're gonna quote me then get it right! :roll:


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

Oh the freedom from the Moderator shackles :lol:


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

omen666 said:


> b3ves said:
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> > Indeed, it looks like he was running slick tyres on an old set of alloys.
> ...


http://www.protyre.co.uk sell used slicks for Â£40 a corner. Give them a call with your wheel size and they'll sort you out. :wink:


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

Cheers Stu


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

Just watched this again, but listened through headphones.

I was trying to see if there was more ambient noise towards the end to see if there was an audable warning of the tyre problem, but couldn't hear anything.

I did notice that they came out of 6-7 corners in too high a gear, so they could have got more speed on the exits. The paddles really help here, you can drop 1 or 2 gears and come out on higher revs.

Although some reckon its modded, the gear change wasn't as quick as it is if the gearbox is remapped, so I think they might at least be running a std gearbox map.

The driver new the course well, backed off the power at the right points, but I am surprised how red the discs were. They seemed smoother than that would suggest. Video can be slow things down, so maybe it doesn't portray the braking as well as the speeding up?


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

I found it very strange to watch as being a manual driver I'm used to changing down before bends etc.

It made it look like the RS6 was a very point and squirt car i.e. flat out on the straight and really back off for any bends. I know this isn't (totally :wink: ) the case but it did seem weird to me.


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

I agree, they could have used the paddles on entry to get onto a rev level that allowed them to keep the power/traction balance to be quicker through the corners.

Despite not doing it the time was looking good, so they could have been quicker


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

I can say with authority  that just leaving the box in Sport Mode is by far the best for track driving. The paddles get a little confusing (unless you're very used to them) & for me were more for fun/show than real driving.

Using the paddles is not faster/quicker or slicker than using just Sport Mode & the fact you can forget about gearchanges means you've a little more concentration available for the track & what's ahead/coming.

Sport Mode in the RS6 is very very good if the gearbox has been re-mapped.

Using VMAX as the safest place to try out different combos of gear selection & traction control on/off, the quickest by quite some margin was Sport Mode & Traction on if you want o make safe & rapid progress.


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

We are going to differ on this one Paul.

At Donington particularly I found the 2nd half of the track's bends open enough to stay on the power and really fly out the bends. Forcing a change down allowed me to communicate to the car exactly what I was looking for, rather than letting it work it out. The car has many sensors and clever software, but it can't get it right all the time or read the drivers mind. The driver also knows what is 1,2 or 3 corners away and can communicate the best gear/power way before the car gets to register the road.

When I didn't do this the car would sometimes come out in a higher gear thus taking longer to get the revs/power down. This is evident on this 'ring video too.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Yep, defo gonna differ :wink:

Have you had your gearbox software re-mapped?? Reason i ask is that in my experience & in my car, the right gear was always being selected 99% of the time & the 1% it wasn't, the silly power made up any lost ground.

Tried many many laps at Outlon Park in paddle mode & forcing the box into a lower gear than it really wanted caused a delay, then i'd flip the paddle again & end up dropping 2 gears when the car had reduced speed under braking, thus causing me to be in the wrong gear.

If you select to drop a cog at too higher speed, the car will drop into that gear when it's safe to do so (can't truly force it even in flappy paddle mode), but you then start to question if you pulled the paddle hard enough or did you even select the right gear, thus causing problems. In my Sport mode, i could hold over 6500RPM in any gear without the computer moving me up a cog & in fact a few passengers commented at their surprise how high the revs in a gear (Sport mode) could be held automatically, so this led to me timing various different laps in different modes & the Sport Mode conclusion was drawn.

Did the same tests at VMAX in a safer environment & the same result acheived. My guess is that the software controlling your gearbox does not act in anywhere near the same way as mine.

In fact at Oulton, i was in Sports Mode when i hawled in the Gallardo (driven by a quality driver) that was giving paid for fast passneger laps. the look on his face was a picture. :lol:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

b3ves said:


> jonah said:
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> > Look like slicks to me :?
> ...


Agreed - his lines and on/off power approach - too fast in too slow out, made it hard for him to pas the 911 even with a 200hp advantage.

Thats a good example of power differential and 'real world performance' that people talk about. On paper the RS6 should have minced the 911. In the film the 911 let him pass (but made hime work for it :wink: )

No finesse, just lots of power and track knowledge on the part of the RS6 pilot.

Good time tho - am thinking if slicks are worth min 2-3 secs on typical UK 1.5 mile circuit, than at Ring you would have to be talking 20-30 secs.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

If the slicks are worth 30secs then it's not exactly a good time/lap.

I've been round in my TT (the last timed lap I've done - they've now banned cameras) and on a wet but drying track I did the BTG in 9'30. That means on a dry track he was effectively only 30secs quicker than me in the wet. That's not good for an RS6 against a TT.


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

scoTTy said:


> If the slicks are worth 30secs then it's not exactly a good time/lap.
> 
> I've been round in my TT (the last timed lap I've done - they've now banned cameras) and on a wet but drying track I did the BTG in 9'30. That means on a dry track he was effectively only 30secs quicker than me in the wet. That's not good for an RS6 against a TT.


All down to the driver Scotty :wink:


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

When you look at the state of the discs it shows significant reliance on heavy braking. The size of the section blown out suggests he has created a flat spot on his tyre by locking the wheels at some point earlier in the lap causing the blow out later.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Locking wheels? ABS off? ooh eerr


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

Can't turn the ABS off but I can't think of anything else that would create a flat spot that big. The theory is ABS stops wheels locking, but is it 100% under such load/conditions?


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Perhaps that wasn't the cause. Perhaps the flat spot came from it being dragged along after it went bang? :?


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

Very true....god we are boring :lol:


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