# TTS Misfiring under heavy acceleration



## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

On the way back from GTI International on Sunday, started gettng the emission control warning light flashing on the dash (nothing in DIS) and a juddering and popping under heavy acceleration. A quick plug into VCDS showed random misfiring and engine speed limit exceeded.

Everyone I have spoken to has said the likely cause is spark plugs or coil packs and to try swapping those. It's a TTS S-Tronic, mapped with full exhaust/sports cat (I wasn't sure if swapping the cat was related to the emissions warning light).

Has anyone had experience of this and any other insights into what the cause and solution may be?

Any advice/comments/suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


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## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

Admittedly I do have a MK1 rather than MK2 - but the symptoms do sound very much like a failed coilpack.

Charlie


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, As Charlie says coil pack breaking down @ high revs, but I believe there is a valve spring prob on remapped TTS @ high revs. Audi were replacing them at one time. 
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=180619&p=1826974#p1826974
Hoggy.


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## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

Thanks for those replies guys. Interesting thread on the valve springs there, this is quite uncharted territory for me and I'm not sure what's the best way of diagnosing the actual cause of the problem. Would you suggest it's a trial and error process of swapping out the components and seeing if the problem cures itself? How would I know if the right/wrong valve springs are installed?

Thanks again


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## chrislewis28 (Mar 14, 2011)

I had exact same problem called out Audi roadside they scanned showed as miss fire on cylinder 3 replaced coil pack and everything was ok again.

If you have access to VAG do a scan should show up.


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## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

On another note, if the issue has been addressed in TSB 2019062/1, any views on whether I could get the valve springs replaced under warranty if they are the wrong ones (my research indicates white and yellow coded ones are wrong), despite the remap and non-OEM exhaust/DP.


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

The only way to find out if you have the wrong (shorter) valve springs are to open up the engine and look.

ps: the fault code for the missfire caused by this problem seems to be related to missfire in cylinder nr. 3. That was what I was told before they checked my TTS, and that was the fault code that they got from the readout. Because of this they deceided to open up the engine and check the valve springs and replace if neccessary (on warranty) - and I did have the wrong ones, so they were replaced. No problems since 

ps: remember that if you replace the remap with the original mapping, the fault codes will be cleared - and in my case they had to make a readout with the "correct" fault code before they could do the job (on warranty).


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## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

Update on progress, changed the spark plugs today for uprated RS2 plugs (as advised by the guys at MRC, they use them in all their turbo cars apparently), and it seems to have cured the problem. Hopefully all is sorted now.

Thanks for all the helpful comments and advice guys.


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## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

Update on this if anyone has any helpful advice:

Yesterday, a quick vagcom check just to see if everything was still OK showed no misfire logging in a general fault scan, but during live logging the misfire counter was showing problems in cylinders 2 and 4, occurring at the exact point of upshift when in excess of around 6000rpms. Again, still no physical symptoms and car running smoothly.

Can anyone shed any light on this? Is it normal behaviour, me being paranoid, nothing to worry about, or signs of a deeper problem etc etc?

Any help and advice greatly appreciated, thanks.


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## Fissues (Aug 11, 2008)

I'll put money on the wrong exhaust valves. A 2009TTS with a map that misfires?= wrong valves.

Mine was the same and I took it in and they couldn't diagnose it. They cleared the faults and I went right back out and pushed the car to misfire again. Went right back and handed them the TSB numbers and said call me after you change my valves and left the car there. Told them, "I will not drive this car until you fix it"

They called  and said they're just waiitng for the valves and the tool they need, it will be ready in two days.

Go get'em!! :evil:


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## jns2001 (May 25, 2011)

It is very interesting that my MY 2011 misfired the other day under heavy acceleration and no tune in it yet. The funny think is that after that it didn't happen again, and I pretty much raped the car yesterday in search of another misfire so I could take it in. Still thinking it was poor octane that the stealership put on it, it was my third refill yesterday.


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## phillywilly (Feb 24, 2011)

just to rule them out -have you had the coil packs replaced by audi on the free replacement ,if not see if your car is eligable get them done free and if its still doing the same problem at least you can rule out spark plugs AND coil packs


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## jns2001 (May 25, 2011)

The darn car just did it again today, I am definitely taking it in on Monday, let's see what they say.


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## SKNKWRX (Jul 16, 2011)

I have had a very ocasionaly misfire in the 6k rpm range but never threw a CEL. Would the valve spring issue apply to 2011 cars as well?


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## jns2001 (May 25, 2011)

Just used the Vag Tool today, and there are 3 misfires at 82% load at 1543 kms, can someone shed light if this looks like more like coilpacks or does it seems that its the valves.


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

jns2001 said:


> Just used the Vag Tool today, and there are 3 misfires at 82% load at 1543 kms, can someone shed light if this looks like more like coilpacks or does it seems that its the valves.


What does "at 1543 kms" means? If this happens arround 6.000 rpm's, I think the reason might be any of the above. However in my case the error readout was "misfire in cylinder 3" - which supposedly was a clear indicator for the valve springs?


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## jns2001 (May 25, 2011)

Arne said:


> jns2001 said:
> 
> 
> > Just used the Vag Tool today, and there are 3 misfires at 82% load at 1543 kms, can someone shed light if this looks like more like coilpacks or does it seems that its the valves.
> ...


I am sorry, this is when the first misfire happened, at 1,543 kms in the clock, the log reads like this:

000769 - Cylinder 1: Misfire detected
P0301-001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 1543 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2011.07.18
Time: 07:31:13
RPM: 5673/min
Load: 82.3%
Speed: 142.0 km/h (where are you flying to Batman;-) )
Temperature: 84.0 C
Temperature: 35.0 C
Absolute Pressure: 940.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.224V

If someone that has experienced the same problem and can chime in with the solution found it would be greatly appreciated. I also have the same fault at Cylinder 4.

TIA

P.S.: I left my knock off Vag Com and purchased the real deal last week, I feel so much better that I am not ripping someone off.


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## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

If you car is standard I advise you don't clear the code and then get the dealer to swap spark plugs and coil packs first to rule those out, it's a much easier job than valve springs. Is your car a manual or DSG?


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## jns2001 (May 25, 2011)

toot3954 said:


> If you car is standard I advise you don't clear the code and then get the dealer to swap spark plugs and coil packs first to rule those out, it's a much easier job than valve springs. Is your car a manual or DSG?


It is a DSG. Does it make any difference?


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## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

jns2001 said:


> toot3954 said:
> 
> 
> > If you car is standard I advise you don't clear the code and then get the dealer to swap spark plugs and coil packs first to rule those out, it's a much easier job than valve springs. Is your car a manual or DSG?
> ...


I believe the live misfire counter records a misfire at the point of upshift under heavy load on S-Tronic cars, which may contribute to the lovely upshift sound we get. Shouldn't be recording as a fault code when scanned, though.


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## jns2001 (May 25, 2011)

Here's an update on the situation: 
Since I had purchased the spark plugs and coil packs, I went ahead and installed it today. A few comments:

1. When I opened the engine cover, the two screws that hold the power rail in place were non existent, someone removed it and did not put it back, I purchased the car with 400 miles on the clock.

2. The installed spark plugs gap were all over the place, from 0.5 mm to 0.7 mm and they were Bosch VW P/N 06H905611

After gapping the new spark plugs to 0.8 mm (0.031 inches I believe) I installed both the new spark plugs and the coil packs, the car runs better and I took it for a spirited drive and no misfire happened.

I think it was indeed the bad gaps and the coil packs that were creating these problems. What amazes me is that this is a car with 2614 miles on the clock.


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

jns2001 said:


> 1. When I opened the engine cover, the two screws that hold the power rail in place were non existent, someone removed it and did not put it back, I purchased the car with 400 miles on the clock.


They are missing on mine too. Perfectly normal according to an Audi mechanic. Seems they're only there when there is no cover on the engine, like the previous A4.

Gaps all over the place is bad as the TFSI technology is very sensitive to it's sparks as you've found out by now. Mine didn't differ that much and were all around 0.7 mm +/- 0.05.


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## CWJ (Aug 24, 2010)

TT-driver said:


> jns2001 said:
> 
> 
> > 1. When I opened the engine cover, the two screws that hold the power rail in place were non existent, someone removed it and did not put it back, I purchased the car with 400 miles on the clock.
> ...


Mine were also missing. Apparently normal on the TT.


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## jns2001 (May 25, 2011)

CWJ said:


> TT-driver said:
> 
> 
> > jns2001 said:
> ...


I feel better now, I guess that I can remap it and get more power.


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## TWH (Aug 25, 2010)

jns2001 said:


> The darn car just did it again today, I am definitely taking it in on Monday, let's see what they say.


I've noticed a few potential misfires in the last few days - like you MY11 TTS, not remapped, got about 5k miles on the clock at the moment, and just started doing it a few weeks ago. Every so often get a hiccup in acceleration, almost like a little wheel spin, or the TC kicking in briefly. Seems to be getting slowly more regular, and happens even under about 60% acceleration.

Will hook it up to vagcom when I get home tonight and see if it's logged misfires. If so it sounds like coil pack and spark plugs are where to start. Strangely enough it's only started happening since the car went in for it's first service (oil change) but I doubt they did anything that could have caused it - maybe coincidence?


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

Did they overfill it? An excess of oil could end up in the cylinders fouling the spark plugs? Not too likely, but still... you may want to double check your oil level. Otherwise it would be a coincidence. During service, most dealers tend to do the least amount of work, rather than doing additional work...

Try burning the plugs clean by driving about 15 minutes @ 4000rpm or more, mixed with a few full throttle blasts.


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## TWH (Aug 25, 2010)

TT-driver said:


> Did they overfill it? An excess of oil could end up in the cylinders fouling the spark plugs? Not too likely, but still... you may want to double check your oil level. Otherwise it would be a coincidence. During service, most dealers tend to do the least amount of work, rather than doing additional work...
> 
> Try burning the plugs clean by driving about 15 minutes @ 4000rpm or more, mixed with a few full throttle blasts.


Will check the oil level & give her a high rev run


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## TWH (Aug 25, 2010)

So, oil level is at the top, but not over.

Called Audi to get her booked in to be checked and the service woman was insistent that driving the car could do more damage, I questioned this several times but she was insistent I call Audi recovery, so that's what I did. And of course the dreaded curse of the mechanic - he spent over an hour with the car, checking all the codes, I even took him out for a run in it to try to recreate the problem while he was logging for cylinder misfires - watching the traction control etc...

NOTHING, ran as smooth as anything 

Of course this morning, the hesitancy is back again as normal. I'm trying to narrow it down, see if I can recreate it exactly, and it seems to be around 600rpm after you put your foot down - I was generally flooring it in 3rd at 2800rpm, and at 3400 or a tiny bit more, there's the momentary power loss. It's not like turbo lag, as the power actually drops slightly before coming in stronger.

I'm wondering if it could be the clutch possibly, or traction control system somewhere?

It's driving me mad at the moment as the car is not at all what it should be.

The only thing the Audi recovery guy could say was next time give them a call, and don't turn off the engine. Couldn't do that this morning as I was arriving at work, so can't really sit around waiting for them to turn up, so will try it this afternoon if it's happening on the way home.

Any ideas or suggestions as to what else it could be are greatly appreciated!!! [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

Doesn't sound like a misfire then. Perhaps some eco-emission thing, but that's just a guess. If the TTS has a variable valve technique, it might be switching from one valve timing to another, but I don't know if the TTS has that system. Sorry, I only own a normal TT so I'm not up to speed with the TTS :wink:


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## TWH (Aug 25, 2010)

Yeah, I've come to the conclusion it's not a misfire.

As far as I'm aware, there's no variable cam - the TTS is basically the same engine as the standard 2.0 tfsi, just tuned and I would imagine with a few bits uprated here and there.

Just gotta hope that the next time I get the guy out, it will carry on happening so he can hopefully pin-point it.


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## TWH (Aug 25, 2010)

Had Audi Assistance out again last night, and this time on the ride along got a really nice stutter going all the way through third gear. So she's in the shop - technician reckoned it could be similar to a problem seen in the 1.4T engine where the diaphragm in the turbo can cause problems, or possibly an injector playing up (although that would be more likely to log some fault codes). Will let you know when they find the problem (if they do!!!).


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

Just for your information:

this is how the factory original plugs looked like after 55 k kilometres on mine (about 34k miles)










I think they look OK. (coffee-with-milk-brownish electrodes) Still replacing them made the engine run better. While the heat range looks OK, they did require some additional heat every now and then to keep the engine running good. With additional heat I refer to doing 4000+ rpms for a couple of minutes, with a few full throttle blasts towards 6000 rpms.

Mine is not remapped. I'm using mostly v-power or ultimate. Car doesn't do city driving and I'm avoiding traffic jams.


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## mpaul0055 (Oct 7, 2009)

TWH said:


> Had Audi Assistance out again last night, and this time on the ride along got a really nice stutter going all the way through third gear. So she's in the shop - technician reckoned it could be similar to a problem seen in the 1.4T engine where the diaphragm in the turbo can cause problems, or possibly an injector playing up (although that would be more likely to log some fault codes). Will let you know when they find the problem (if they do!!!).


How you getting on pal. Any joy yesterday?


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## TWH (Aug 25, 2010)

mpaul0055 said:


> TWH said:
> 
> 
> > Had Audi Assistance out again last night, and this time on the ride along got a really nice stutter going all the way through third gear. So she's in the shop - technician reckoned it could be similar to a problem seen in the 1.4T engine where the diaphragm in the turbo can cause problems, or possibly an injector playing up (although that would be more likely to log some fault codes). Will let you know when they find the problem (if they do!!!).
> ...


Just had a call from Camberley as they're about to test it and not a lot of fuel left in it, so needed permission to stick £20 worth in. So should know more this afternoon (and if they do replicate the problem, hopefully they can get audi uk to sort me out a better replacement car that actually moves!!!).


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## TWH (Aug 25, 2010)

So far they've not been able to get it to play up. They reckon that a problem with the diaphragm would log a fault - anyone know if it would always do this, or if it could be something that would avoid detection?


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## TWH (Aug 25, 2010)

Got a call back last night to say that they'd spoken to Audi Tech, and they have some similar instances that were rectified by changing spark plugs!! They asked which ones were installed which implies they need to be a certain type, mine were Bosch, so they swapped them for NGK. So hopefully it resolves the issue - pick her up this afternoon so will give it a good test over the weekend and hopefully all will be well!


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## mpaul0055 (Oct 7, 2009)

TWH said:


> Got a call back last night to say that they'd spoken to Audi Tech, and they have some similar instances that were rectified by changing spark plugs!! They asked which ones were installed which implies they need to be a certain type, mine were Bosch, so they swapped them for NGK. So hopefully it resolves the issue - pick her up this afternoon so will give it a good test over the weekend and hopefully all will be well!


Fingers crossed man... Shocking how many people have had spark plug problems..


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## TWH (Aug 25, 2010)

mpaul0055 said:


> TWH said:
> 
> 
> > Got a call back last night to say that they'd spoken to Audi Tech, and they have some similar instances that were rectified by changing spark plugs!! They asked which ones were installed which implies they need to be a certain type, mine were Bosch, so they swapped them for NGK. So hopefully it resolves the issue - pick her up this afternoon so will give it a good test over the weekend and hopefully all will be well!
> ...


Yeah, not good at all. Surprised that Audi have not disseminated this information as Camberley said they had no idea that this was a potential issue, it was only when they ran out of ideas and contacted Audi in Germany that they mentioned the plug issue!


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

TWH said:


> Surprised that Audi have not disseminated this information as Camberley said they had no idea that this was a potential issue, it was only when they ran out of ideas and contacted Audi in Germany that they mentioned the plug issue!


Well I had to inform my dealer that Audi Germany had changed its plug recommendation for the TFSI engines. They wanted to sell me the old ones when I asked for a set. Oh we never ordered these new ones before, the guy said. Oh great I said, they've been around for 6 months already. Don't you read your product updates? Silence afterwards...


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## TWH (Aug 25, 2010)

Well so far so good - no hiccups or stuttering as yet, so looks like the plugs may have solved the issue thank god!


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## Piker Mark (Nov 16, 2011)

toot3954 said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on this?
> 
> On the way back from GTI International on Sunday, started gettng the emission control warning light flashing on the dash (nothing in DIS) and a juddering and popping under heavy acceleration. A quick plug into VCDS showed random misfiring and engine speed limit exceeded.
> 
> ...


I've had EXACTLY that problem with my S3. It's been into the dealer FIVE times in the last nine months and they've never managed to fix it. It's there now actually! Same issues in that they drive it, call you up and tell you there's nothing wrong with it! So, I tell 'em to drive it some more and hey presto, it starts to hesitate, cough and missfire. Very random too. I've had it start to happen from cold and another time it's after two hours of driving. Called out Audi RA on one occasion (as it was so bad) and the retard they sent tried to first tell me I'd put dielsel in it and then after having a laptop plugged into it for half an hour said, "No, nothing is wrong with it as computer say no!". Of course he takes it for a drive and comes back telling me it's fine. Then basically tells me I am imagining a problem! I drive it an hour later, ten minutes into the journey, it starts to play up again...

Anyway, Audi will replace the spark plugs, and that fixes it, but only for a while. About two months later (2,000 miles driving) the problem comes back. The technichians have told me that Audi are aware of the problem (has been reported on both S3's & the TTS) but they do not have answer yet and more importantly, what causes it. My last set of plugs were even sent off to Germany for some kind of post mortem, sadly someone lost them. Lol! The latest update on my car is that they're now replacing the fuel injector?! Anyway, I'll be glad to pick up my new car at this rate. I've got an A4 All road loan car right now, which is OK but I am getting a bit bored with it! Good luck mate, but replacing the spark plugs is I'm afraid only a temporary fix  If I get any more news, I'll let you know...


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## TWH (Aug 25, 2010)

Doesn't sound good - please do keep us updated! I'll post back if the problems return :?


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## Piker Mark (Nov 16, 2011)

Well, just got a call to say my car is 'fixed'. They've replaced not only the spark plugs, but the # 1 injector. I'll let you know how I get on, mind you, in about two weeks time I take delivery of my TTS, so I suspect any problems going forward are going to be there for the poor Sod who buys my S3 off them  
All I can say is that if you get the same or similar problems I have had, just keep pushing Audi. It's hard enough to convince them there is a problem in the first place! I do know one thing, replacing the plugs is only a temporary fix, well on my car it was... shame really, as appart from that, the S3 has been a fantastic. Just hope my new TTS doesn't have the same problem :roll:


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