# 9/11 or 11/9 or 9th September



## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

For fucks sake America ...move on and get over it will ya!

7 years on and still they drone on about it. Apparently poor old George Bush thinks about it when he wakes and before he's goes to sleep every single day. Probably because you were the cause mate that's why. Guilty conscience per chance?

Do we go on about the London bombings every year with big memorial days with our PM in attendance? No. We just get on with it. Maybe if they weren't so stuck in the past they'd be able to create a better future!


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

I'm not sure, as a country so far away, that we fully comprehend what happened that day and the scale of devastation the events left on the minds & hearts of the American people. For you to compare the events with the London bombings is farcical, the scales are on a completely different level from each other!

At the time of the planes flying into the Twin Towers I was working in a Stockbrokers on a dealing floor - everything went completely manic, trading continued as best it could until it was eventually suspended and all the systems were shut down across the UK. That took quite some time to happen though and in that time the second plane was flown into the towers. Whilst most people had stopped what they were doing and were watching their TVs in amazement where they could digest the events unfolding in front of them, many people in the city and in finance companies across the UK were trying to focus on their jobs whilst these images were being broadcast directly onto screens into our dealing rooms. For example, myself and other colleagues were on the phone to US trading rooms - where I managed to finish my call ,a colleague of mine got cut off and was left with an eeery silence, it later transpired that the person he was speaking to was in one of the towers that got hit and he had been crushed to death in the falling towers whilst trying to flee down a fire exit.

Even now I find it difficult to watch any TV coverage/documentaries of the event because all I can remember is the panic and images of people jumping to their death in an vain attempt to stop themselves from suffering. Whoever is to blame for it (part of me thinks it was a conspiracy) that day has engrained a memory on me, that I can only imagine is magnified thousands of times over in every Americans mind. I know people in this country who refuse to talk about it, purely because of the images and actions that still haunt them, so I dread to think how an American who witnessed the event would feel.

Time is a healer, and whilst I agree that Bush may play on it sometimes, 7 years to get over events that has caused so much pain, suffering and devastation, is in reality, no time at all.


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## qooqiiu (Oct 12, 2007)

Well wrote ^


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## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

Ok Kev. Put it this way ..."Remembrance Sunday".

I think this is the only time when we stop, as a nation, to remember those that died. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we remembering a few more people that fell than 3.5 - 4 thousand? :?

I'm not disputing that it was a tragic event. Nor am I disputing the fact that many peoples lives were changed on that day. But, 7 years on?


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

kmpowell said:


> Whoever is to blame for it (part of me thinks it was a conspiracy) that day has engrained a memory on me...


Hi Kev,

Some highly recommended reading for you... a very interesting possibility.










Available here...

http://tinyurl.com/63l8ed

cheers

Rich


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Private Prozac said:


> Ok Kev. Put it this way ..."Remembrance Sunday".
> 
> I think this is the only time when we stop, as a nation, to remember those that died.


I agree, my feelings on remembrance sunday are well known on here. I am appalled every year at the lack of respect people show in simple form that is buying a poppy. Year after year more and more people disregard the memory of people who founght for their lives and it disgusts me that the 'Ken Bigley' effect creeps more and more into our society. Saying that though there are still people who stop and remember (myself included), and the vast majority of those people never even witnessed the war. It is through respect to your country and fellow countryman that we do it, hence why the Americans take time to remember September the 11th.



Private Prozac said:


> I'm not disputing that it was a tragic event. Nor am I disputing the fact that many peoples lives were changed on that day. But, 7 years on?


September the 11th is recent and it effected me to the point where I can remember the day's occurrences to the nearest minute, so I can only sit and wonder how somebody who was involved in it or connected to it or shows respect for their nation, would be feeling and how they would go about putting the memories to rest.

I am not in any means pro-american, in fact I wonder sometimes how US survives with its blindness to the rest of the world - but, it is that blindness that makes them patriotic and why they respect the Sep 11th happenings in the way they do.

7 years to forget an occurrence that you agree 'changed peoples lives'? Certainly not, it will take a lot longer to come fully to terms with that tragic day.


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## moley (May 14, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> Private Prozac said:
> 
> 
> > Ok Kev. Put it this way ..."Remembrance Sunday".
> ...


Well said Kev, my feelings too.

Also with regard to 9/11, we're still feeing its long term effects with the conflict in Afghanistan and Iraq where both our forces and civilians are still suffering casualties. I'm afraid it'll be a long time before 9/11 is forgotten, if at all.

Moley


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## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

Tragic as those event were, it finally woke the American up to the real world, gave them an excuse to invade Iran (for oil?) and Afghanistan, and drag us into those conflicts.

Prior to 9/11 many American supported their "brothers" struggles in Ireland. That funding dried up overnight and in many peoples eyes helped finally end the bloody situation the UK had endured for 30 + years.

What would be interesting is to find out if there was any conspiracy, as certain events that day do not ring true - most notably the jet (without wings and engines???) which hit the Pentagon making such a perfect round hole.


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## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

mighTy Tee said:


> Tragic as those event were, it finally woke the American up to the real world, gave them an excuse to invade Iran (for oil?) and Afghanistan, and drag us into those conflicts.
> 
> Prior to 9/11 many American supported their "brothers" struggles in Ireland. That funding dried up overnight and in many peoples eyes helped finally end the bloody situation the UK had endured for 30 + years.


Well said.

They were happy to watch, and participate/fund, whilst others suffered but then expect the whole world to stop and stand still when less people are taken out in 1 hit!


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## drjam (Apr 7, 2006)

Private Prozac said:


> mighTy Tee said:
> 
> 
> > Prior to 9/11 many American supported their "brothers" struggles in Ireland. That funding dried up overnight and in many peoples eyes helped finally end the bloody situation the UK had endured for 30 + years.
> ...


While I completely agree with the above, I don't think this, from the original post, is remotely realistic (in expecting anything else): "7 years on and still they drone on about it."

Do you really think that if, say, the IRA had flown two passenger airliners into, say, Canary Wharf and the NatWest Tower and killed 2000+ people, that seven year's later _we _would have just moved on and forgotten about it? I don't believe that for a minute.

I think the fact it was in one hit and on the scale it was does - rightly or wrongly - make a psychological difference to how people view the event (and in the US with the added symbolism/significance of the twin towers, attack on capitalism, the American ideal etc.. etc..).

Personally I wouldn't object if we _ did_ more to remember the thousands killed as a result of the Northern Ireland conflict. That's not to say we shouldn't get over it and move on - as mostly seems to be the case. But equally just sweeping history aside doesn't do any favours in moving on _successfully_.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Is a 997 no longer a 911 in US?


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## T7 Doc (Jun 28, 2007)

Private Prozac said:


> mighTy Tee said:
> 
> 
> > Tragic as those event were, it finally woke the American up to the real world, gave them an excuse to invade Iran (for oil?) and Afghanistan, and drag us into those conflicts.
> ...


Your last line could be equally directed at your own government.

State sponsored terrorism wasnt invented in the middle east! - We had it in N. Ireland from the early 70's

9/11 was one day, one horrific event that is rightly remembered by Americans. I find it hard to understand why it bothers anyone, why would someone be offended by the length of time a nation takes to remember its dead!

Dont get me wrong I hate americans. Every time I fill my car and hand over the 60 odd quid i curse dicks. They have brought all of this on themselves and as the saying goes, fool me once shame on....eh shame on....eh well you know what I mean.......GwB


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

kmpowell said:


> I'm not sure, as a country so far away, that we fully comprehend what happened that day and the scale of devastation the events left on the minds & hearts of the American people. For you to compare the events with the London bombings is farcical, the scales are on a completely different level from each other!
> 
> AtTime is a healer, and whilst I agree that Bush may play on it sometimes, 7 years to get over events that has caused so much pain, suffering and devastation, is in reality, no time at all.


And do you for one minute think had 9/11 happened here the press etc coverage WE get on 9/11 would be the same over there? Not a ******* in hells chance. America is only interested in America unless it worth something to them. An indication of this is sport. We get sh*t loads of their sport but even wimbledon hardly gets a mention over there. Most Americans dont even know where the UK is they think where nearer to Australia than Europe DOH!. :roll:


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

les said:


> most Americans think where nearer to Australia than Europe DOH!. :roll:


Culturally they're right... :wink:

Cheers

Rich


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## head_ed (Dec 10, 2002)

My feelings on 9/11 should be well known, in fact I have the dubious honour of being one of only a few people in the history of the forum to have a post not just locked but deleted, due to the histrionics that followed a post on 11th September 2002.

I think that people's attitudes towards the American nation is very blinkered, whilst I agree that there are a huge number of Americans that think that the UK is near Australia and that Bush has royally fucked up the whole of his tenure this isn't the full picture. The people that you are talking of tend to be the working class citizens who can't afford/don't want to know about foreign culture, hmmm... maybe like the working class citizens of the UK who don't venture ourside their own town, or when they do they visit Magaluf & moan that the beans aren't Heinz. There are plenty of comparisons. They don't cover Wimbledon? Hmm, I can't seem to recall BBC1 broadcasting the Superbowl either.

I am lucky enough to visit the USA several times a year, I am also lucky enough to stay with well educated people in very good jobs, doctors, dentists etc. These people visit Europe on a regular basis & are better travelled than a lot of people I know back home. They are very au fait with current overseas policies and what happens outside their own borders - they like most like minded people in the UK abhor terrorism in any form, IRA/PLO/Taliban give it any name you want.

Which ever way you look at it, in the Western world 9/11 was the most public loss of life in modern times. If it happened in London, Madrid or Paris it would be world news even 7 years on. Yes the American people as a nation are patriotic to the verge of being annoying at times, but isn't that what we bleat on about day in day out - the UK has no sense of national pride anymore?

I know that there is a large number of people who dislike the Americans with a great passion. All I can say is that on all my trips, from the east coast to west, I have found them to be welcoming, friendly and passionate about their country. Not something that can be said about the average Britain.

Coming back to the original post, many nationalities lost their lives on that tragic day - RIP every one of them.

Martin.


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

Quote "The people that you are talking of tend to be the working class citizens" FYI I like many others am working class and proud of it here you bigot. Sorry I must be speaking to a higher class than moi your highness. Tips his cap and bows his head. [smiley=toff.gif]


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

head_ed said:


> My feelings on 9/11 should be well known, in fact I have the dubious honour of being one of only a few people in the history of the forum to have a post not just locked but deleted, due to the histrionics that followed a post on 11th September 2002.
> 
> I think that people's attitudes towards the American nation is very blinkered, whilst I agree that there are a huge number of Americans that think that the UK is near Australia and that Bush has royally fucked up the whole of his tenure this isn't the full picture. The people that you are talking of tend to be the working class citizens who can't afford/don't want to know about foreign culture, hmmm... maybe like the working class citizens of the UK who don't venture ourside their own town, or when they do they visit Magaluf & moan that the beans aren't Heinz. There are plenty of comparisons. They don't cover Wimbledon? Hmm, I can't seem to recall BBC1 broadcasting the Superbowl either.
> 
> ...


100% with you Martin.

I too travel to the US regularly and every time I've got on a plane to leave that country I regret it. If there was a way for me to get a life out there I'd take it. Yes, they're proud, yes they're aggravating at times, but what you see with a Yank is what you get. There's no hidden agenda with the majority of them. Contrast that with here and I don't trust anyone except people I really know well. Everyone here is out for what they can get, be it through fair means or foul.

Cheers

Rich


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## head_ed (Dec 10, 2002)

I grew up in a council house & have worked hard for my money - no bigot here.

Merely pointing out that the 'average American' that gets so soundly trashed by people is comparible to the 'chav' of the UK, but thanks for the personal attack :-*


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

head_ed said:


> I grew up in a council house & have worked hard for my money - no bigot here.
> 
> Merely pointing out that the 'average American' that gets so soundly trashed by people is comparible to the 'chav' of the UK..


 No such thing as the average American nor the average UK. Glad to see you did so well and moved from the class you were born into one of a higher level. Away from the council estate and the so called friends you had to endure until you managed with your hard work to move on up. That must have been such a relief for you. Im just your average joe public. I can hear the good old USofA calling you and Rusty. God knows why people want to stay in this country when they can afford so much better and have obviously improved their social status beyond all recognition. :roll:


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## head_ed (Dec 10, 2002)

les said:


> Most Americans dont even know where the UK is they think where nearer to Australia than Europe DOH!. :roll:


Yup, it would be terrible to generalise wouldn't it?


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

head_ed said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> > Most Americans dont even know where the UK is they think where nearer to Australia than Europe DOH!. :roll:
> ...


I qouted a facts, well facts as reported from a recent survey carried out in the USA. Whether they are true or not is another matter. :roll: And just where did you get your info re working class Americans then? 
Heres one such of many you can find on the net to support what I said, there are more.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2491509.stm


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

head_ed said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> > Most Americans dont even know where the UK is they think where nearer to Australia than Europe DOH!. :roll:
> ...


Yes it would. EG we wouldnt want to talk about the typical welsh now would we. :wink:


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## head_ed (Dec 10, 2002)

*Sigh* Les, you are contradicting yourself within two posts.

Firstly you say there is no such thing as an 'average' American - then produce a link to show that 'most Americans' don't know where the UK is.

We're getting way of topic here anyway, if you feel that I am an upper class snob who has forgotten my background & hates the UK, well you're entitled to pass judgement on someone you've never met. You're wrong, but hell this is a democracy.

My original point was that I think that the US is more than entitled to remember 9/11 & having only got back from Californa on Thursday evening, I can safely say that I saw no more over the top memorials than we have here for Rememberance Sunday.


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

head_ed said:


> *Sigh* Les, you are contradicting yourself within two posts.
> 
> Firstly you say there is no such thing as an 'average' American - then produce a link to show that 'most Americans' don't know where the UK is.


Oh dear you are confusing most with average. I assume you dont know the difference between the 2. :? Still never mind.


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## head_ed (Dec 10, 2002)

last

word

needed :roll:


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

head_ed said:


> last
> 
> word
> 
> needed :roll:


:wink:


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

les said:


> I can hear the good old USofA calling you and Rusty. God knows why people want to stay in this country when they can afford so much better and have obviously improved their social status beyond all recognition. :roll:


Oh Les... :?

So tell me. You're happy with the tax you pay the Inland Revenue, the tax you pay your local council, the tax and VAT you pay on that tax for your petrol. The road tax you pay for roads you can't rely on to be fit for purpose. The tax you pay on the money you spend and the money you save. Let's ignore the money you earn because you've done that already and retired :lol: . Next let's assume you earn interest on your savings, get paid a pension and spend some. You pay tax on all of that too. So you fall ill and once the NHS has cut you about and given you 6 weeks to recover you're means tested. So any money you've got left after they've taxed you all your life is gonna be taken into consideration before you qualify for the care you've earned anyway.

Meanwhile step back and look at your house. I assume you own it but even if you don't, from the money you've earned minus deductions you now have to pay energy bills that were always higher than they are in the US NOW. Never mind the credit crunch, you are now paying double what you were a year ago to keep warm, feed yourself and wipe your own arse (to get someone else is extra - as you've learned). You have to sort your own rubbish, walk it in a bin to your kerbside so some bloke who had a chip on his shoulder at school can berate you for slightly over-filling it. Whatever happened to the term 'Public Servant'? These guys on the trucks and in the council think we are the public servants. They muddle along until they retire and get a final salary, index-linked pension so they can dweeble on in an unrealistic world until they snuff it.

Okay still got money left? Go to the shops. Pay more than practically anyone else in the western world for practically anything. You want clothes - pay double. You want electrical goods? Pay more than anyone in Europe. Want food? Haha, food... Our farmers moan it's too wet, it's too dry, it's too expensive to feed cattle. They have a point, but then they're being hammered like every other self-employed person outside of government or local authority...

Buy a car. A TT. Take it to an Audi dealer to get fixed and get fisted. Chances are a venture capitalist owns the dealer and they're being squeezed just like the rest of us to pay the bills and earn their keep. See what I mean about 'trusting' people?

Take a bus, take a train. Pay for the privilege and be late. Enjoy shoddy service. Put up with being treated like an inconvenience. It ain't for me.

The UK is failing because corners are cut, bean counters are ruling and you and I get poor value across the board. Service is a forgotten talent in the UK yet we're full of service industries.

Have you ever been to the US Les? I don't mean Disneyland either. Have you visited the CITY of New York. Seen how motivated and service orientated they are? Witnessed their eagerness to win your business? And been at the end of a delivery of a promise?

They knock spots off much of this country. They're articulate, can spell and make you feel good. They can deliver extremes and make you feel like a king. They want your business and will reward well for it. Plus it's all delivered with a smile that's meant.

Yes I'm pro-US but if this country, Japan, any other country, or even Zimbabwe delivered the same I'd be pro them too.

Life's too short to think the world ends at the end of the street and that's all there is.

You need to look around mate. :roll:

Cheers

Rich


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

As above,Way off topic now. I cant be arsed answering you rust but keep the faith the grass is always greener. 8) End of :roll:


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## davidg (Sep 14, 2002)

rustyintegrale said:


> So tell me. You're happy with the tax you pay the Inland Revenue, the tax you pay your local council, the tax and VAT you pay on that tax for your petrol. The road tax you pay for roads you can't rely on to be fit for purpose. The tax you pay on the money you spend and the money you save. Let's ignore the money you earn because you've done that already and retired :lol: . Next let's assume you earn interest on your savings, get paid a pension and spend some. You pay tax on all of that too. So you fall ill and once the NHS has cut you about and given you 6 weeks to recover you're means tested. So any money you've got left after they've taxed you all your life is gonna be taken into consideration before you qualify for the care you've earned anyway.
> 
> Meanwhile step back and look at your house. I assume you own it but even if you don't, from the money you've earned minus deductions you now have to pay energy bills that were always higher than they are in the US NOW. Never mind the credit crunch, you are now paying double what you were a year ago to keep warm, feed yourself and wipe your own arse (to get someone else is extra - as you've learned). You have to sort your own rubbish, walk it in a bin to your kerbside so some bloke who had a chip on his shoulder at school can berate you for slightly over-filling it. Whatever happened to the term 'Public Servant'? These guys on the trucks and in the council think we are the public servants. They muddle along until they retire and get a final salary, index-linked pension so they can dweeble on in an unrealistic world until they snuff it.
> 
> ...


Rich .
I'm with you all the way , could have not added any more to what you said ,,,,Rip off Britain [smiley=argue.gif] :x :x :x :x

There are just a couple of close family maters that keep us here ,,, even if it is not going to the USA , would be somewhere else 8) 8) 8)

My 2ps [smiley=gossip.gif]


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

Just wait and see. The US economy is in colapse. Rip off Britian it maybe but dont think there isnt worse to come and not just here in Blighty either. Now about that grass :roll:


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

davidg said:


> Rich .
> I'm with you all the way , could have not added any more to what you said ,,,,Rip off Britain [smiley=argue.gif] :x :x :x :x
> 
> There are just a couple of close family maters that keep us here ,,, even if it is not going to the USA , would be somewhere else 8) 8) 8)
> ...


Thanks Dave... 

Regarding family matters, I can only relay the hard lesson learned by my father...

When we were kids my Dad worked for the Commonwealth Bank of Australia in London. He used to see a lot of people come in and enquire about emigration and the Australian Embassy used to share open evenings where people could go and learn what life was all about down under. My Dad was actually offered the chance to move us lock, stock and barrel to Sydney. He was given a job and a house until we found a place of our own. Meanwhile down the road in the small housing estate where we lived, one of our neighbours had also been contemplating emigrating. He too had kids about our age but rather than just shipping out, he was building a yacht in his front garden.

This was the subject of much mockery from my Dad as this neighbour was planning to sail his whole family around the world before ending up in Australia where they intended to finally settle. He was doing this with good reason. He wanted to be sure that Oz was gonna be the right place to bring up his family and he wanted to make the whole trip an adventure they'd remember for the rest of their lives.

After a year or two, they sold up and left. When they finally arrived in Australia they worked on a sheep farm to get some experience before finally buying a small holding of their own. The kids grew up on the beach and one of them eventually represented Australia in swimming. After a few years they began moving into property development, buying parcels of land along the eastern coast of Australia.

This guy is now in his 70s and retired. He's now a multi-millionaire and spends his life restoring old Jaguars. His kids are both doctors and have a quality of life we could only dream of.

In the meantime my Mum and Dad struggled and the resentment that my Dad had manifested itself in constant rows with my Mum. He left on several occasions and when my Mum asked for a divorce he refused. In those days a matrimonial split didn't entitle the ex-wife to a share of the home or any kind of share of the husband's income so she stayed with him. He moved jobs before finally becoming redundant in his late 50s. He never worked again and they sold our family home to downsize and release some capital to prop up his Anzac pension.

Fast forward to January 2007. After being in and out of hospital for the best part of two years my Mum was diagnosed with lung cancer. Up until then they said it was muscle strain, a broken rib and who knows how many other things. She had just one course of chemotherapy before finally passing away. Her life had been a misery. She spent it practically waiting on my father who'd she'd fallen out of love with years earlier.

He fully intended to leave the UK and travel after my Mum died but he is now in a wheelchair following three operations to remove a schwanoma that had grown around his spinal chord and partially disabling him from the waist down. He now expects my sister and I to look after him the way Mum did. Even my 70 year old Aunt (his sister) has to ferry him around because he refuses to have an assessment to see if he can drive.

Both my sister and I would dearly loved to have emigrated when we were younger. Had we made the decision to go then our lives may have been a whole lot different to what they are now. It could well have changed things for my parents too, especially my poor mother. She may well have left my father and found some much deserved happiness without him.

C'est la vie huh?! :?

Anyway Dave it's your life. But it's your *only* life. Sometimes 'tough love' decisions can end up as the right ones but at least you'd have given it a go. Unfortunately my sister and I have probably missed the boat. It makes me wonder how life might've been had my father made a different decision when we were younger...

Cheers

Rich


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

Never ever thought i'd say this. But i completely agree with Mr Powell. I am probably the only person that slept through the whole thing. Ended up finding out 7pm U.K. when a customer off mine made a comment about it. Still i didn't believe the guy and just assumed he was making a weird fucked up joke about it. However curious that he may have been telling the truth after he left. I changed the stereo from Cd to radio to see if he was being serious. To find it was true. Not only did i feel very shocked and abit sick. I can still remember that i was listening to G n' R Sweet Child o'Mine on the CD before i turned it off. Nothing in my life sticks in my memory so much. Then i find out that a close friend off mines brother originally from Tilbury had died in the attack. But not just that but to go to the memorial service and find out that he was caught in flames whilst making his last call to his mother telling her he hadt to go and he loved her. I think about that from time to time. Most often when 9/11 is mentioned. It still sticks in my throat. Can't and don't even want to imagine what his mother feels every time she relives that moment. We being far away from America can easily switch off to the emotional side off it's effects. But what am saying is if i still feel effected over what happened. Then i can only imagine how much hurt the Americans still feel.

As for whoever thinks it's G W Bush fault. Can i just remind you that the first attacks on the WTC, the attacks on the Americans Embassys and the attack on the USS Cole were under the instruction on Bin bag and were whilst Clinton was in office. So before you wish to throw accusations around that it was down to Bush or some conspiracy he masterminded to go seize Iraqi oil. Get your facts and history right. 9/11 was an attack on America by an evil sick twisted group off individuals that want nothing more than power and control. Not unlike Saddam, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin etc etc.

Oh woops wow. just bothered to read the rest off the posts and im not sure if my post has put the thread back on topic or taken it off topic. I'll put my 2p in. I hate all americans think they are the most annoying people i've had the honour off meeting. But i also hate the Welsh and think they come a close second... However my two closest friends are Welsh, I've met Head-ed and think he's a nice guy (Non Gay way obviously). Also if i ever met myself i know damn well i wold despise me. But that doesnt mean i wouldnt love me either. I am racist i hate every nationality including my own at times. But if i could help an person innocently walking downing the street that were attacked. Regardless off if i liked them or not or what colour or religion they were. I would help them. There are times in this world where you have to put your prejudice aside and do what is right. Whats that Quote "Evil succeeds when good men fail to act"? or something like that.

Also sorry for all the spelling mistakes and bad use off grammar. Havnt been on here for a while so i'm abit rusty at getting my wording right. Spelling police don't arrest me. I'm just a poor uneducated man that grew up on a council estate and had't to pull the sofa apart looking for pennies so my mum could afford to buy a loaf off bread :roll:  No joke im being honest. Oh also ex drug addict and HAD! a fucked up girlfriend that was a chav (And Still is) and 2 kids by another man.  So you may aswell ignore everything i typed because my opinion doesnt matter.. lol. WTF why do people call people Bigots? I find generally people calling other people bigots are ignorant.

Still can't believe i agreed with KMP. Not sure if i can live with the shame. Gunna have to stop taking my medication. Making me to nice and happy.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

rustyintegrale said:


> davidg said:
> 
> 
> > Rich .
> ...


Rich,

There are lots of thing all our folks could have done that may have shaped outcomes we now experience, justa s we are all completely reponsible for where we are now and the decsions that we have taken or will take.

Just maybe the chap who sailed to Austrailia would have 'made it' anywhere, including here in UK. Just maybe his kids would have felt different had things not worked out so well in emigration for them, as is often the case.

I am really sorry to hear about your parents unhappy marriage and where they ended up, but how you you be sure that it wouold not have run that path regardless of a UK or otherwise location?

You seem (and I may have inferred incorrectly..) to feel that it was the geographies and emigration/immigration to Better Places that has been the pivotal thing in your tale, possibly more so than the nature, character, motivations and drivers of the individuals involved, to grab life by the scruff of the neck and take control of their lives.


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

les said:


> head_ed said:
> 
> 
> > *Sigh* Les, you are contradicting yourself within two posts.
> ...


Mean, median, mode. Most does mean average, at least 1/3 of the time ;-)


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

Well if it does then 1/3rd of the time is 2/3rds wrong then, well taken on average that is :roll:


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## prt225TT (May 7, 2007)

An interesting thread...

A little off point, but I wish our country had a little more patriotism. They welcome their troops home, they hang flags in front of their homes, they look after their own much better then we do.

I am recently ex-military myself and have seen how we aren't even treated as normal, we're sometimes treated as 2nd class citizens. I've been in many a bar where you are not welcome if you're military, and these are military towns/cities. When our units come back from deployments... nobody is waiting for them. We can't even be bothered to welcome are own soldiers home from war.

The amount of news coverage a soldier receives when he/she is killed in combat is pathetic. I have seen for myself too many times how small a mention of a fallen soldier gets, and only when the story is really juicy (bootnecks strapping themselves to an apache to recover one of our casualties) does it get any real press.

Yes, sometimes the US are sickeningly over patriotic, but atleast they make an effort to recognise the sacrifices their military personnel make.

It also irritates me how few people of my generation bother with remembrance sunday. I may only be mid 20's, but I have the utmost respect and gratitude for what the men and women of previous wars did to give me this ****-hole of a country we have today. They laid down their lives for us to mess it all up and create a society of lay abouts and dole sponges and asylum seekers. I think I have more of an understanding as I have seen modern combat, and it is a fraction of what they endured in WWI and II.

*** Royal Marines don't die, they just go to hell to re-org ***


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

prt225TT said:


> It also irritates me how few people of my generation bother with remembrance sunday. I may only be mid 20's, but I have the utmost respect and gratitude for what the men and women of previous wars did to give me this ****-hole of a country we have today. They laid down their lives for us to mess it all up and create a society of lay abouts and dole sponges and asylum seekers. I think I have more of an understanding as I have seen modern combat, and it is a fraction of what they endured in WWI and II.
> 
> *** Royal Marines don't die, they just go to hell to re-org ***


Hear, hear mate. I'd shake your hand anytime and say thank you. 

All our servicemen are undervalued.

Cheers

rich


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## moley (May 14, 2002)

rustyintegrale said:


> prt225TT said:
> 
> 
> > It also irritates me how few people of my generation bother with remembrance sunday. I may only be mid 20's, but I have the utmost respect and gratitude for what the men and women of previous wars did to give me this ****-hole of a country we have today. They laid down their lives for us to mess it all up and create a society of lay abouts and dole sponges and asylum seekers. I think I have more of an understanding as I have seen modern combat, and it is a fraction of what they endured in WWI and II.
> ...


Ditto.

Having seen some of the documentaries (e.g. Ross Kemp in AFG), I have a great respect for all the servicemen currently (and previously) in action. Bloody courageous the lot of you.

Moley


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

les said:


> Well if it does then 1/3rd of the time is 2/3rds wrong then, well taken on average that is :roll:


Well, in this case it would be right with both median and mode, so that's 2/3rds right. Taken on average that's.....


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