# TTRS Intercooler?



## matlowth (Jan 14, 2010)

G'day Guys,

I know a few of you are looking at swapping out the intercoolers on the TTRS for something a bit bigger...

Have got the Miltek Race system on it's way over from England at the moment, so am thinking that I might do the intercooler at the same time 

Has anyone used the Wagner one (link: http://wagner-tuning.de/EN/products/200001019AudiTTRSLLK_eng.php), or do people have any preferences?

Cheers,
matt


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

no ones had one fitted yet as I know of

only 2 to choose frome that one and the forge one

take your pick


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

OK, that has moved along nicely, last time i checked it where still CAD drawings/pictures.


































AUDI TT RS EVO LLK

The Wagner Tuning Audi TT RS Intercooler Upgrade Kit is a high performance redesign of the original OEM intercooler designed specifically for the Audi TT Tuning Enthusiast.
Our engineers have increased the intercooler core size and efficiency, as well as improved the end tank design to remove any OEM bottlenecks, resulting in increased flow rating and charge cooling properties.

Constructed of the highest quality Tube Fin intercooler cores combined with cast aluminum and then CNC end tanks for reliable high performance air to air charge cooling.OEM+ Fit and finish for easy installation.

The Wagner Tuning Audi TT RS Intercooler Upgrade Kit features:

High-performance 535mm x 160mm x 110mm 8,670 cm³ flow rate Intercooler Core vs. OEM 535mm x 160mm x 80mm 6,848cm³ flow rate
CAD / FEM optimized cast aluminum end tanks
100% Factory Replacement
OEM Mounting Points
Simple Installation


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## f.ss.t (Mar 27, 2010)

what gains do you expect to see from the intercooler? (hp wise) ??


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

f.ss.t said:


> what gains do you expect to see from the intercooler? (hp wise) ??


All depend on how much the temperature will drop in comparison with the OEM intercooler.
I expect something like 10-20 degree Celsius drop could be possible.


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## dlff (Apr 3, 2010)

Any idea what are the prices of the Wagner & Forge intercooler?
Cheers mate!!


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

dlff said:


> Any idea what are the prices of the Wagner & Forge intercooler?
> Cheers mate!!


The link in the first post say 730,- Euro for the Wagner. :wink:


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## Matchu (Jul 19, 2009)

R5T said:


> f.ss.t said:
> 
> 
> > what gains do you expect to see from the intercooler? (hp wise) ??
> ...


With that assumption, the hp increase could be how much ? (as a rough estimate)


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## BlackRS (Mar 9, 2010)

R5T said:


> f.ss.t said:
> 
> 
> > what gains do you expect to see from the intercooler? (hp wise) ??
> ...


I always thought with uprated intercoolers that the advantage was that you could sustain your current power for longer when driven hard as the intake wasn't as susceptable to heat soak, rather than it providing any actual hp increase "out of the box"?

Discuss...


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## f.ss.t (Mar 27, 2010)

BlackRS
essentially that is correct- its good for track time things like that - but then you have to think about oil coolers etc. - dont know how good the rs' oil cooler is - we used to race alot of nismo nissans and even they were awful - same on the new gtr...

anyway - i think the full benefit of the intercooler will be with a custom remap/ remap after its on. should see something there

personally im waiting for someone to go the full hog - 
intercooler
race exhaust
induction kit
highflow cat
remap(s)

those are basic modifications yet seem to make a huge difference on the RS - which is awesome!!


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## matlowth (Jan 14, 2010)

Well - mine should have that in about a months time - so I'll keep you posted! 



f.ss.t said:


> personally im waiting for someone to go the full hog -
> intercooler
> race exhaust
> induction kit
> ...


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## jamiekip (Nov 12, 2006)

f.ss.t said:


> personally im waiting for someone to go the full hog -
> intercooler
> race exhaust
> induction kit
> ...


Sounds like jonny's car, but he doesn't have the intercooler (yet) and he has de-cat.


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

I have done it all.....currently running the THS intercooler which is 350% larger than stock....

Forget the Wagner. its not worth it....either you go all in or keep the stock one. Can easily handle 400+hp.

I am currently running at 435+hp/670nm....


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Mule said:


> I have done it all.....currently running the THS intercooler which is 350% larger than stock....
> 
> Forget the Wagner. its not worth it....either you go all in or keep the stock one. Can easily handle 400+hp.
> 
> I am currently running at 435+hp/670nm....


It looks like overkill to me, a large intercooler like that.
Do you still have the license Plate Holder installed behind the grill. ?


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## matlowth (Jan 14, 2010)

LOL - That would have been good to know 3 days ago... Just ordered it.

NVM - I'm sure there'll be good gains anyway.

Might end up running it on E85 depending on what the fuel system is capable of.

Cheers,
matt



Mule said:


> Forget the Wagner. its not worth it....either you go all in or keep the stock one. Can easily handle 400+hp.
> 
> I am currently running at 435+hp/670nm....


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Nope...plenty of room though. Removed because of flow....



R5T said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> > I have done it all.....currently running the THS intercooler which is 350% larger than stock....
> ...


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## sTTranger (Oct 21, 2008)

Mule said:


> I have done it all.....currently running the THS intercooler which is 350% larger than stock....
> 
> Forget the Wagner. its not worth it....either you go all in or keep the stock one. Can easily handle 400+hp.
> 
> I am currently running at 435+hp/670nm....


hi

where did you get this from??


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## jamiekip (Nov 12, 2006)

sTTranger said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> > I have done it all.....currently running the THS intercooler which is 350% larger than stock....
> ...


http://www.thsperformance.co.uk/article/show/13


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## sTTranger (Oct 21, 2008)

that is for a 2.0 engine??


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## jamiekip (Nov 12, 2006)

It's THS and they made Mule's - suggest giving them a call too. Could be an expensive day mate


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Wagner Intercooler.

View attachment 2

View attachment 1


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## matlowth (Jan 14, 2010)

Mine's due to arrive today/tomorrow (Based on the DHL shipping tracker)...

Will be getting that + the milltek race exhaust and custom tune done in the next week or so.

Can't wait!

Cheers,
matt


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## Senator (Mar 4, 2009)

matlowth said:


> Mine's due to arrive today/tomorrow (Based on the DHL shipping tracker)...
> 
> Will be getting that + the milltek race exhaust and custom tune done in the next week or so.
> 
> ...


You've obviously bought the right one Matt given the rest of the crap on this thread.
I for one will follow with great interest, Mate


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## dlff (Apr 3, 2010)

matlowth, Wagner intercooler + Milltek full race exhaust system sounds interesting.
What is you choice of chipping, Revo???
Cheers mate!!


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## Captain Carling (Aug 28, 2010)

When I swapped my standard Evo intercooler for the huge APS one, I could dial in more advance on the timing and up the boost before it started to knock. Bigger coolers are better if you are starting to push the turbo. In fact, looking at the style of the TT cooler, I'm betting I could mod mine to fit ha ha. The standard Evo cooler is good for 450bhp and they are quite cheap second hand. You never know


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

According to Wagner is there intercooler good for 550-600 hp.


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

Big cooler means more consistent peak power, less strain on turbo and the ability to advance the engine timing.

Mules cooler is good for his needs as hes a 'ring nut, for the average TTRS driver it would be over kill though.


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## Senator (Mar 4, 2009)

TTRS_500 said:


> Big cooler means more consistent peak power, less strain on turbo and the ability to advance the engine timing.
> 
> Mules cooler is good for his needs as hes a 'ring nut, for the average TTRS driver it would be over kill though.


The OP I think is trying to preserve his power during an Australian summer.
Given the effect of an 100degree F ambient on a TTS's output I think he has every right to be concerned about the output of a TTRS under the same conditions.


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

Senator said:


> TTRS_500 said:
> 
> 
> > Big cooler means more consistent peak power, less strain on turbo and the ability to advance the engine timing.
> ...


No doubt, even the lousy bit of sun we get in the UK has a very noticeable effect on the power output of a tuned 2.0TFSI


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

A 120 degree F ambient would kill the Wagner and OEM cooler..... :-|

And that's not uncommon at all in AU.



Senator said:


> TTRS_500 said:
> 
> 
> > Big cooler means more consistent peak power, less strain on turbo and the ability to advance the engine timing.
> ...


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## Senator (Mar 4, 2009)

Mule said:


> A 120 degree F ambient would kill the Wagner and OEM cooler..... :-|
> 
> And that's not uncommon at all in AU.
> 
> ...


The APR Intercooler performed well at an APR Dyno Day in Sydney last January with ambients of 112-115 degrees F


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

I didnt know that APR has developed a IC for the TT-RS??

We had to modify some small bits to make the THS fit.



Senator said:


> The APR Intercooler performed well at an APR Dyno Day in Sydney last January with ambients of 112-115 degrees F


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## Senator (Mar 4, 2009)

Mule said:


> I didnt know that APR has developed a IC for the TT-RS??
> 
> We had to modify some small bits to make the THS fit.
> 
> ...


They hadn't...I was referring to the TTS with APR II+


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Ahhh.... TT-RS are very proned to heatsoak because of the tiny cooler!

A Wagner cooler is only 30% larger than stock. THS is 350% larger....

And I like the looks of it. Filling the entire front "hole" with IC... 



Senator said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> > I didnt know that APR has developed a IC for the TT-RS??
> ...


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## Senator (Mar 4, 2009)

We've found the same applies to the TTS.
The IC is tiny and the airflow is minimal.


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## sTTranger (Oct 21, 2008)

is the THS intercooler the same as the 2.o0 ltr one but just modded to fit the rs??

Its the only one i can find on there site :?


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Yes it is 

Only mounted in front instead of the back of the watercooler 



sTTranger said:


> is the THS intercooler the same as the 2.o0 ltr one but just modded to fit the rs??
> 
> Its the only one i can find on there site :?


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Hot day's are 30-35 degree Celsius and can be count mostly on one hand and at the most 2 hands a year.
No need for a mega intercooler.
And if it's 30-35 i'm not spending my time in the car that's for certain.


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

I bet a tuned RS will have high inlet temps even on a coldish day on track,or hard Autobahn runs.


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

With a OEM or Wagner cooler yes.....

The THS runs at 8-10 C above ambient at 280km/h... (Ambient temp 18C)



jaybyme said:


> I bet a tuned RS will have high inlet temps even on a coldish day on track,or hard Autobahn runs.


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## dlff (Apr 3, 2010)

I am staying in a hot tropical climate country (hot & humid) with an average temp of 30-35C throughout the year. 
A bigger intercooler is certainly the order of the day in my country.
Cheers mate!!


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Mule said:


> With a OEM or Wagner cooler yes.....
> 
> The THS runs at 8-10 C above ambient at 280km/h... (Ambient temp 18C)
> 
> ...


And what happen if the ambient temp drops to minus 10-15C. ?


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Probably nothing.....other than intake temps are VERY cold 

I havent had the chance to log at that temperature. Normally the car is parked in the garage when 2" of snow outside.



R5T said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> > With a OEM or Wagner cooler yes.....
> ...


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Mule said:


> Probably nothing.....other than intake temps are VERY cold
> 
> I havent had the chance to log at that temperature. Normally the car is parked in the garage when 2" of snow outside.


Will it not freeze up. ?


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

NO......

Its only air....air doesnt freese, unless you add water.

I havent heard of a car frozen in the intake...



R5T said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> > Probably nothing.....other than intake temps are VERY cold
> ...


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Mule said:


> NO......
> 
> Its only air....air doesnt freese, unless you add water.
> 
> I havent heard of a car frozen in the intake...


I know back in the days old cars had a hot air feed from the exhaust for winter times to prevent freezing up.
Air can have a % moisture in it.


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## dlff (Apr 3, 2010)

If the car is not chipped & you replace the OEM intercooler with a Wagner?
Does it help in the way of performance?
Cheers mate!!


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

That was the timne of carburators.....when the liquid fuel was mixed with air, before it got sucked in.

They do that now as well....but in a much more refined manner.

No....it will not help performance at all. It will just run cooler for longer, before it begins to turn down pressure because of intake temps.



R5T said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> > NO......
> ...


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

R5T said:


> OK, that has moved along nicely, last time i checked it where still CAD drawings/pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Audi S3 cooler has a cubic area of 10.13 are you telling me that the TTRS has such a tiny cooler??????? How can that be??? TTRS stock cooler must be a major weak point as it has roughly the same cubic area as that of a leon cupra or golf gti [smiley=bomb.gif]


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

This is how the TT-S 2.0TFSI with intercooler look like.










And this is how the TT RS 2.5TFSI with intercooler look like.


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

R5T said:


> This is how the TT-S 2.0TFSI with intercooler look like.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so by my calculations the S3 cooler is better, and even that is inadequate for a tuned 2.0TFSI with k04 turbo.


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Not exactly....The S3 is mounted behind radiator and AC condenser. It gets a LOT of heat...

The TT-RS is mounted in the front. Nothing in the way....Therefore it can bew smaller and still outperform the S3...BUT not saying it does. 

The IC on the TT-RS is a very big issue on remapped cars. It runs hot....when you push on the autobahns.

Thats why I didnt care, that some modding to the front had to be done to fit the THS cooler. It gets the car over the hill


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

Mule said:


> Not exactly....The S3 is mounted behind radiator and AC condenser. It gets a LOT of heat...
> 
> The TT-RS is mounted in the front. Nothing in the way....Therefore it can bew smaller and still outperform the S3...BUT not saying it does.
> 
> ...


no issues or worrys about restriting airflow to other cooling sections with your big THS?


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Nope....nothing has been altered regarding watertemps and AC effectiveness.

So the conclusion is no effect at all on other cooling sections.



TTRS_500 said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> > Not exactly....The S3 is mounted behind radiator and AC condenser. It gets a LOT of heat...
> ...


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Mule said:


> Thats why I didnt care, that some modding to the front had to be done to fit the THS cooler. It gets the car over the hill


Have you made more pictures of the install or only the two up here. ?
How is it mounted compare to the rest, normally it's the base to bold on the rest.


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

It fits the original holes exactly where the OEM once was.

The rest takes a bit of sqeezing....



R5T said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> > Thats why I didnt care, that some modding to the front had to be done to fit the THS cooler. It gets the car over the hill
> ...


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Mule said:


> It fits the original holes exactly where the OEM once was.
> 
> The rest takes a bit of sqeezing....


I don't like removing the alloy bumper/crash bar to be honest.
Would it fit the regular way like it sits on a 2.0TFSI behind it all.


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

It could, but then you would have to experiment with the front cut from the TT-S....

It has the S3 cooler setup.

It doesnt really have any effect as it is soft aluminum with padding.



R5T said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> > It fits the original holes exactly where the OEM once was.
> ...


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

Mule ,did you measure intake temps before and after fitting your cooler ?
It would be interesting to compare the intercoolers on the market.


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Only after....I didnt bother to be honest with the original one.

8-10 degrees above ambient is where the THS is at. Mounted in the very front....and with nothing in the way. 

If you want to keep the alu bar, then it needs serious modification. It can be done, but I didnt want to bother....

We have made a stainless steel round bar across instead and relocated the horn.


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)




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## matlowth (Jan 14, 2010)

R5T said:


>


Heh - you ordered one too?

Mine was fitted and tuned over the weekend. Going to get it on the dyno shortly to see how much more power I've got.


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## vwcheung (May 19, 2010)

What brand and how much?


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

vwcheung said:


> What brand and how much?


http://wagner-tuning.de/EN/products/200 ... LK_eng.php


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

is it an easy diy job to change the cooler ?


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

jaybyme said:


> is it an easy diy job to change the cooler ?


strait fit.
remove front bumper, remove OEM intercooler, fit wagner intercooler, fit bumper, as easy as that.
a extra pair of hands would be helpful.


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

Is the Wagner that much better than the THS fitted by MULE?

Does anyone know if an IC can be made to also serve cooling air to the brakes calipers & discs - if it can then that would be worth buying or developing.


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

In short the Wagner is a direct fit 33% bigger IC. My THS is NOT a direct fit, but 350% larger than stock....

8-10 above ambient at 32 degrees celsius ambient, AFTER a 21km run at the Nordschleife.

And no. The air is a closed circuit and cannot be used to cool the brakes....


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

ANy one have the specs of the Forge one ?

edit ok I have it now it is

core is 560x150x150

so bigger than the german one


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## BlackRS (Mar 9, 2010)

Does bigger cooler increase turbo lag?


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

depends on the design and pressure drop,big does not always mean better. :lol:


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Not necessarily....I have it. But thats on purpose...I have 670+nm and I dont want that at 2000rpm because of trannyload. Therefore it is programmed to occur at 4000 rpm instead....



BlackRS said:


> Does bigger cooler increase turbo lag?


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

sTTranger said:


> is the THS intercooler the same as the 2.o0 ltr one but just modded to fit the rs??
> 
> Its the only one i can find on there site :?


I mailed with Ollie of THS about a TT RS intercooler, no cooler that fit the TT RS and not any plans soon.
All depend on the demand, and at the moment there is no demand of meaning.

Mule have modified it to fit, i would like to see a strait fit TT RS version (with crash-bar in place), a directly bold on so to speak.
It could be a bit shorter at the top so it's not blocking the hole watercooler.
At leased the Top 2-3 inch of the watercooler need 100% fresh cool air, very important.
Something like this as for the 2.0TFSI


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

I'll be buying the Forge one


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

mrdemon said:


> I'll be buying the Forge one


Don't like it, it's just in alloy, you can see it through the grill. 
(that's ok for a Saxo but not for a TT RS)
It need to be black like the Wagner.


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## Matchu (Jul 19, 2009)

mrdemon said:


> I'll be buying the Forge one


What is the improvement over stock ? And how much is it ? And is there any turbo lag ?


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## McKenzie (Dec 25, 2008)

I would be interested to see what intercooler/Twintercooler would be the best performance in comparison to others. Any one any ideas?


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Matchu said:


> What is the improvement over stock ? And how much is it ? And is there any turbo lag ?


It's bigger then the "Wagner IC" and that one is bigger then the OEM one.



McKenzie said:


> I would be interested to see what intercooler/Twintercooler would be the best performance in comparison to others. Any one any ideas?


There is no room for a Twintercooler on a TT RS.
The place for the "Twin" is already in use by the OEM intercooler.


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

R5T,
can you really feel / tell the difference with the Wagner fitted? I was going THS until I read your notes so am now looking at Wagner for the stealth fit though it must have a noticeable improvement else I will sit and wait.

Your views?


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

996cab said:


> R5T,
> can you really feel / tell the difference with the Wagner fitted? I was going THS until I read your notes so am now looking at Wagner for the stealth fit though it must have a noticeable improvement else I will sit and wait.
> 
> Your views?


Sit and wait. :wink:


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

R5T said:


> 996cab said:
> 
> 
> > R5T,
> ...


Thx...sound advice...


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

R5T,
off topic...have you heard the OEM Sports Exhaust and 2nd CAT pipes vs MillTek Race System? Is there much difference in exhaust note through out the rev range?

I have OEM Sports Exhaust and 2nd CAT pipes and I find the exhaust is great up to 80MPH and then the volume does not increase past 80mph. I want some more volume and was thinking of eith QTO exhaust cutout or MillTek Race System though am not sure the MillTek Race System is that much louder than the OEM Sports Exhaust and 2nd CAT pipes.

Your views / thoughts?


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

996cab said:


> R5T,
> off topic...have you heard the OEM Sports Exhaust and 2nd CAT pipes vs MillTek Race System? Is there much difference in exhaust note through out the rev range?
> 
> I have OEM Sports Exhaust and 2nd CAT pipes and I find the exhaust is great up to 80MPH and then the volume does not increase past 80mph. I want some more volume and was thinking of eith QTO exhaust cutout or MillTek Race System though am not sure the MillTek Race System is that much louder than the OEM Sports Exhaust and 2nd CAT pipes.
> ...


The only difference between OEM stock vs OEM sport is the backbox internals.
With first CAT still in place not much will change.
Further the problem is the valve in the system, not on the right place in the system.
Mostly it's used to close off a exit not to redirect the flow.
Not a fan of the Milltek Race System, it's a single system, Audi use a dual system for a reason IMHO.


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## Matchu (Jul 19, 2009)

R5T said:


> 996cab said:
> 
> 
> > R5T,
> ...


Any update ?


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Matchu said:


> Any update ?


About. ???


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## Matchu (Jul 19, 2009)

R5T said:


> Matchu said:
> 
> 
> > Any update ?
> ...


Your "Sit and wait" comment sounded like you were going to report something :?


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Matchu said:


> R5T said:
> 
> 
> > Matchu said:
> ...


No it's more "Sit and Wait" to see whom comes with other intercooler options.


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

well the 2 main companies in the UK are Forge (who have one in the market in OCT) and Pro Alloy who I could talk to as I did a lot of work with them when I had my Noble with intercoolers.

I would like A UK soloution and now Forge have done it , Pro Alloy might not want to take it up.

here is my quote from Forge
"The core is 560x150x150 excluding end tanks. It's pretty much as large as you can fit in the front of the car without cutting anything.
We don't actually market this yet as its on long term test on the TT shop's TTRS .
I can tell you that the car made more torque and power across the whole rev range with just our intercooler fitted.
Peak power went from 345.5bhp to 367.6bhp, peak torque from 329 to 341 ft/lb, though the gap was even greater in the mid range.


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## mikef4uk (Jan 15, 2006)

Our ex factory 993 GT2 used to used a 'Secan' intercooler, they are megga efficient and capable of keeping inlet air within about 10c of ambient on a prolonged run (not just as a heat sink for short duration) but megga expensive, cost was over £10,000 

Secan are an aerospace company and very hard to find any information on, we had one repaired once and inside the core was unbelievable, the inner finning was just slightly thicker than baco foil and could be removed with your finger nail !


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## Matchu (Jul 19, 2009)

mrdemon said:


> well the 2 main companies in the UK are Forge (who have one in the market in OCT) and Pro Alloy who I could talk to as I did a lot of work with them when I had my Noble with intercoolers.
> 
> I would like A UK soloution and now Forge have done it , Pro Alloy might not want to take it up.
> 
> ...


See this interests me. Though I have no intention of tracking my car I am keen to help the performance of my car for everyday driving as much as possible. And my car is with Ed on the 25th Octobter....


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Thick intercoolers can cause large pressuredrops....Just FYI.

With intake pipes, THS cooler and nothing in front of it, I saw 361 DIN HP.


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## Matchu (Jul 19, 2009)

Mule said:


> Thick intercoolers can cause large pressuredrops....Just FYI.
> 
> With intake pipes, THS cooler and nothing in front of it, I saw 361 DIN HP.


For the lay person (ie me)...what does this mean ?


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

If you have a 2" intake on the IC, and it should blow up yor living room....compared to a narrower chamber. Which scenario would you think could sustain the pressure from the turbocharger the best??

Remember that more pressuredrop means harder work for the turbo. And therefore it meets topend performance quicker than normal....



Matchu said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> > Thick intercoolers can cause large pressuredrops....Just FYI.
> ...


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## BlackRS (Mar 9, 2010)

I'm really intrigued by the power gains available by fitting an uprated intercooler to a standard car. I've only recently come to Audis after a long line of BMWs, the last of which was a 135i. IIRC, with that engine, if you fit an uprated intercooler on its own to a standard car the net power stays the same but peak boost pressure is actually reduced. The ECU "sees" the lower intake temp and adjusts boost accordingly to maintain the same power. The obvious advantage of this is that when you re-map and increase the boost along with fitting an uprated intercooler the peak boost can end up little or no higher than a standard car's with the standard intercooler. More power, same amount of strain on the turbo and intake system.

I'm guessing a different system of controlling the boost is used on Audi turbo engines?


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

996cab said:


> R5T,
> can you really feel / tell the difference with the Wagner fitted? I was going THS until I read your notes so am now looking at Wagner for the stealth fit though it must have a noticeable improvement else I will sit and wait.
> 
> Your views?


The Wagner is Plug & Play, that alone is a reason to buy it IMHO.
The THS one is a 2.0TFSI unit that only fit with a lot of modifications.
I would not buy a THS till they made a Plug & Play version for the TT RS.


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Its a choice you make....the front construction on the TT-RS is bad for cooling....

Either you keep it and maximizes the area that can fit OEM or you choose the path that I have taken.....

I know what I would do again if I had the chance


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Mule said:


> Its a choice you make....the front construction on the TT-RS is bad for cooling....
> 
> Either you keep it and maximizes the area that can fit OEM or you choose the path that I have taken.....
> 
> I know what I would do again if I had the chance


A long (± 460 Km) high speed (200+ Km/h) hot summer autobahn run will give a good idea how good a intercooler really is. :wink:


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Nope.....stop and go in a warm summer day will reveal the disadvantages of a very thick design.

Its heatsoak you should be worried about. And the thicker the cooler, the more heatsoak....


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Mule said:


> Nope.....stop and go in a warm summer day will reveal the disadvantages of a very thick design.
> 
> Its heatsoak you should be worried about. And the thicker the cooler, the more heatsoak....


Yes i know, that's why i don't think much of the Forge one (150x150), the Wagner is (160x110) and have cast ends.
I still wonder why the TT RS have a small IC down below and not a big flat IC between like the 2.0TFSI.


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

The TTS has the same setup as the 2,0TFSI.

And the front should be interchangeable. So it could be the way ahead if one wants the OEM look and feel.

I dont understand why they have done it this way....


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Mule said:


> The TTS has the same setup as the 2,0TFSI.
> 
> And the front should be interchangeable. So it could be the way ahead if one wants the OEM look and feel.
> 
> I dont understand why they have done it this way....


How much volume have a OEM 2.0TFSI IC.
The OEM TT RS IC = 6.848 cm3.


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Another "Wagner IC" Picture.


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

Once people do logs of both coolers we will see whats what.


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

R5T said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> > The TTS has the same setup as the 2,0TFSI.
> ...


FR/Cupra/GTI intercooler has a cubic area of 8.63, S3 cooler has a cubic area of 10.13 and has cast end tanks instead of plastic ones.

Picture of Cupra and s3 cooler.


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

TTRS_500 said:


> FR/Cupra/GTI intercooler has a cubic area of 8.63, S3 cooler has a cubic area of 10.13 and has cast end tanks instead of plastic ones.
> 
> Picture of Cupra and s3 cooler.


The S3 one is bigger then the Wagner IC (8.670 cm3), the FR/Cupra/GTI one is about the same volume.


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

IC is my biggest probs at present - am not sure if I should jump for Wagner and be done with...I will only ever go Stage1 Revo...more power than Stage 1 Revo simply does not interest me that much...so shall I jump for Wagner or STILL sit tight?


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## BlackRS (Mar 9, 2010)

996cab said:


> so shall I jump for Wagner or STILL sit tight?


Without proper data it's hard to be certain but a 33% bigger cooler should be enough for most people's needs? It'll certainly be ample for road use surely?


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

BlackRS said:


> 996cab said:
> 
> 
> > so shall I jump for Wagner or STILL sit tight?
> ...


If my maths is working, a remap adds about 20% power/torque...so a 30% larger IC is effectively same as OEM power & IC. Am I shooting blanks here?


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## BlackRS (Mar 9, 2010)

I'm not sure if it's as simple as extrapolating like that mate but i'm not an expert on these things. All I know is more power = more heat, but as a general rule of thumb, for road use, it might not be that far off?

I fancy the Wagner I have to say, I won't ever be on track so it'll be ample for me.


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

996cab said:


> IC is my biggest probs at present - am not sure if I should jump for Wagner and be done with...I will only ever go Stage1 Revo...more power than Stage 1 Revo simply does not interest me that much...so shall I jump for Wagner or STILL sit tight?


I have heard that so often on forums. Extra power is addictive.

At stage 1 I would just sit tight tbh for now and wait for some hard data.


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

BlackRS said:


> I'm not sure if it's as simple as extrapolating like that mate but i'm not an expert on these things. All I know is more power = more heat, but as a general rule of thumb, for road use, it might not be that far off?
> 
> I fancy the Wagner I have to say, I won't ever be on track so it'll be ample for me.


Well, am no expert either...what I can tell though is on warm days (20 degress plus) car does not pull as strong as on cool days (10 degress or less).

Something tells me the Wagner is ether a waste of money (basically, may not show that much of a gain once car is re-mapped) or 'technically' far more capable than we all know...as you said...we need pro-long comparisons with others across different temp range to determine what is best to go for.

I definitely will track 6 times per year from hereon - only way to enjoy the car properly.


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## BlackRS (Mar 9, 2010)

I've not heard anything to suggest the Wagner is in anyway inferior to anything else, as has been said already on this thread, bigger isn't always better.

My nearest track (Knockhill) is 5 hours away, the next nearest I think is Croft, which must be about a day away so trackdays are a non starter for me.

The roads up here are pretty good though...


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

I think R5T has them fitted - where is he when I need an opinion, again...mind, he felt I ought to wait being that we are entering cooler weather for a good 6-mths and by end of Mar '11 there may be a few other ICs on the market or the current crop might have been tested...


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

996cab said:


> I think R5T has them fitted - where is he when I need an opinion, again...mind, he felt I ought to wait being that we are entering cooler weather for a good 6-mths and by end of Mar '11 there may be a few other ICs on the market or the current crop might have been tested...


Do i hear my name.  
Based on what's out there @ the moment as plug & play for the TT RS, the Wagner IC is by far the best up-grade option IMHO.
I don't see any better plug & play options on the market any time soon.


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

R5T said:


> 996cab said:
> 
> 
> > I think R5T has them fitted - where is he when I need an opinion, again...mind, he felt I ought to wait being that we are entering cooler weather for a good 6-mths and by end of Mar '11 there may be a few other ICs on the market or the current crop might have been tested...
> ...


How can you say that when the Forge is bigger, and they have data to back up tests.
If the pressure drop is min then the Forge is the best plug and play intercooler.

No one knows which is best , you take you choice, but I think I am going Forge.


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

150x150 (Forge) or 160x110 (Wagner) take your pick. :roll:
It's no brainer for me choice wise.


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

OK...I have provisionally given go-ahead for Wagner to be fitted...All I want is that it maintains power post re-map...am not interested in gains!


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## mikef4uk (Jan 15, 2006)

Funny things intercoolers, as said bigger is not always better, it's basically all down to how high tech the core is and how much air you can also flow through the external part, we used to run Secam on the GT2 (Factory race car) the inside vanes were so fine you would have thought the airflow would have blown them away!

Big intercoolers give a little more lag plus the dump valve has a lot more work to do and they can give odd feeling when going on/off boost. a lot of after market intercoolers all use the same cores, basically the same as what you would see on the front of a Scania!!

You may also find that the mapping of the ecu MAY be programmed to reduce boost for very cold days to avoid making too much power, you may do the same with a v good intercooler


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## dlff (Apr 3, 2010)

Hi Mule, the THS inter cooler you have fitted to your car is meant for the Golf R is it? I visited THS's website & it shows nothing for the TTRS. They have an inter cooler for the R though & so did you retrofit this into the TTRS?
Cheers mate!!


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## Pricy147 (Oct 15, 2009)

I may as well be reading this in chinese.....hang on - was that a 747 flying over my head!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

Pricy147 said:


> I may as well be reading this in chinese.....hang on - was that a 747 flying over my head!
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Come on, having seen your car in real life at ADI I think you know what this is all about...mister!


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## Skygod (Mar 1, 2012)

Firstly sorry for necro'ing this thread but since it already exists I don't see a point in opening a new one.

Secondly, I'm looking at going stage 2 in the near future (APR). Technically all I need is a downpipe and flash to stage 2 however I'm aware of the RS being quite poor in dealing with heat. Since this thread was last active there are a few more IC options, so does anyone have any comments/experience with either the Wagner Evo 2 or newer Wagner Evo 3? I've ruled out the APR one because it's just a bit too expensive imo.

Cheers


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## cralstc (Dec 14, 2010)

I have the Wagner Evo 3 on my TTRS, I cant really compare it to any others as I have only had stock and this. The fitment was really easy, and I love how it looks behind the grill. Since I live in Dubai (Already 48C today), and intercooler was the highest priority as far as I was concerned. I also run Water Methanol Injection, however with the WMI off I noticed a distinct drop in temperature and more importantly faster recover times after a good number of pulls.



















No idea if that is the information you are looking for, but please feel free to ask any questions.


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