# Cartoon featuring Mohammad



## scott28tt (Jul 30, 2002)

Has anyone seen it? Is it rude or offensive? (APART from the fact that it is actually some form of pictorial representation of him)

As I'm not a muslim, maybe I just don't understand the mayhem that's being caused around the world because of this today.

It may be against the belief of a muslim to represent Mohammad in pictorial form, but it's not against MY beliefs - is it?

I can understand that it's perhaps disrespectful, or that it shows a lack of understanding.

I've nothing to compare it against as I don't really believe in any of the major religions.

If a public discussion about this is not welcome here, please ask a moderator to delete this thread - I'm actually just interested in what others think about this (muslim or non-muslim).


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

scott28tt said:


> Has anyone seen it? Is it rude or offensive? (APART from the fact that it is actually some form of pictorial representation of him)
> 
> As I'm not a muslim, maybe I just don't understand the mayhem that's being caused around the world because of this today.
> 
> ...


A cartoon is a cartoon... :roll:

For what its worth, the amount of "hate" broadcast out by various religions (including Islam) albeit in the name of extremism is FAR more damaging than what surely amounts to a satirical or humorous drawing.

The whole point about an open society - a person should be able to have their own beliefs, and should have a RIGHT to be able to question the beliefs of others.

To quote (the great) Rowan Atkinson:

"It is absolutely right and reasonable that religions should be protected from threatening language, behaviour and written material but I support the amendment to retain the right to abuse and insult, because of the essentially irrational nature of religious beliefs. That is not to dismiss them: indeed, I'm a great believer that the most important and most sustaining things in life are essentially irrational. Love, beauty, art, friendship, music, spirituality of whatever form, these things make no rational sense yet they are more important than any qualities that are rationally measurable. Those who think that, as they lie on their deathbed, they will be able to judge the success of their lives by how big a BMW they could afford at the end of it, are in for a big surprise. However, it's their irrational nature that leaves religious beliefs wide open to interpretation, allowing occasionally practices to be established that are wholly contrary to the mores of a civilised, liberal society."

There is a line to be drawn between the hatred often preached in the name of religion - the call to arms, the rallies of the one-armed clerics - and the humourous lambasting of religious ideals.

The Muslims may not like being laughed at, but it isn't racially motivated (at least not in the accepted sense) and whilst they might find it offensive, I'm afraid that's tough shit. I find the teachings of some relegions "offensive", but I'll defend their right to behave like that as strongly as I'll defend my own right to disagree.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Life Of Brian


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## Harv (May 12, 2004)

http://face-of-muhammed.blogspot.com/

I did a search earlier to see what all the fuss was about.


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## GW1970 (Jul 4, 2005)

The whole thing seems to be escalating, several other newspapers have reprinted the cartoons across Europe in the name of free speech.

_I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
_


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

I dislike most forms of religion as i am an atheist. The fact that there is a god no matter which religion you choose to believe i can't understand. I would say im a good chrisitian but that doesnt mean i have to believe there is a god. I believe you are a good christian, muslim, Hindu etc judged by your actions to yourself and others. Most religious readings would be interpreted by people with commonsense as peaceful. Just the minority seem to stretch change and manipulate what they read to meet their own twisted goals. That applies to all religions. The Catholic church being the worst IMO.


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

Jesus wept - if they find that offensive best not show them South Park.


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## DGW131 (Feb 20, 2005)

ronin said:


> Jesus wept - if they find that offensive best not show them South Park.


 :lol: :lol: :wink:


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Apparently some of the cartoons printed in newspapers in the Arab world on a regular basis depicting Americans as paedophiles are potentially worse or at least as bad and as upsetting to some as the cartoons in question.

It's not about being racist, I believe that some Muslims are suggesting that depicting Mohammed in the cartoons shows disrespect to their religion.

Free speech in the western world is cherished... it's what generations of our forefathers have fought for. I agree with some of the sentiments raised so far, that whilst I disagree with some of the things said in the name of religion, I support their right to say it. If people don't like free speech then they should go and live in a country that doesn't support it! Don't try and change my world... I'm quite happy with it thankyou! :roll:


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## zedman (Jan 31, 2005)

got to say i do totally agree with free speech, but having the prophets turban depicted as a bomb did go way too far in my humble opinion, no need for that at all to make a point

and as far as arab newspapers go, never seen this myself so I can't comment but 2 wrongs don't make a right


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## zedman (Jan 31, 2005)

genocidalduck said:


> Most religious readings would be interpreted by people with commonsense as peaceful. Just the minority seem to stretch change and manipulate what they read to meet their own twisted goals.


spot on


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

zedman said:


> and as far as arab newspapers go, never seen this myself so I can't comment but 2 wrongs don't make a right


I wasn't suggesting that 2 wrongs make a right... I was hinting at kettles and black pots


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

Banning this type of cartoon and implementing bills like the type recently defeated in Parliament - these are the thin end of the wedge. The beginning of rules dictating what can and cant be said which can be cancerous and eventually lead to the type of regime we witness in Iran.

What you or I believe is not right. What anyone believes is not right.

They are our opinions and points of view and we are entitled, nay we have a responsibility, to express them! Others have the responsibility to denounce them and disagree.

Someone tried to create a world where everyone agreed with one group of peoples point of view and many brave and frightened men and women died to make sure that that view was not forced on us all. His name was Adolf Hitler.

These cartoons and all other free speech is the core of the modern, free and succesful world we live in and should and will be defended to the last, as should peoples rights to be offended and raise opposing views (and cartoons, and parliamentary bills for that matter).

Those people who object must understand that the very mechanism which allows them to react through peaceful means without fear of reprisal is the very mechanism which allows the cartoons to be printed in the first place

What next, Ill be banned from posting that the Manual V6 is a better car than the DSG V6? No jokes about fat people? No jokes about southerners not being able to drink proper beer?

I personally would rather do time than give up my right to speak freely.

Many other people gave up much more so we could. I personally owe them at least this post.

If you dont like the cartoons, object, draw alternative cartoons. Dont take your bat home and threaten bomb strikes on the newspapers that printed them. What, did you think EVERYONE agreed with you???


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Leg said:


> Banning this type of cartoon and implementing bills like the type recently defeated in Parliament - these are the thin end of the wedge. The beginning of rules dictating what can and cant be said which can be cancerous and eventually lead to the type of regime we witness in Iran.
> 
> What you or I believe is not right. What anyone believes is not right.
> 
> ...


In your opinion :wink:


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

nutts said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> > Banning this type of cartoon and implementing bills like the type recently defeated in Parliament - these are the thin end of the wedge. The beginning of rules dictating what can and cant be said which can be cancerous and eventually lead to the type of regime we witness in Iran.
> ...


Allegedly


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Interesting comments.

I think the governments should back the rights of all its people (regardless of colour, race and sexual preference) to express their views with regards to other groups (even Arse-nal ) as long as its not done to provoke mental / physical violence or cause emotional distress. For a group who believe something, to oppress or restrict another groupâ€™s opinion of the same thing is fundamentally wrong and against all the principals of freedom of speech.

I donâ€™t see the world condemning Iran for the comments of making the UK a Muslim state. I find this comment extremely distressing and i donâ€™t wish to live my life as a Muslim or have my countries beliefs/ways/customs changed from how it is.

I think we are in for a torrid 50+ years with a religious war becoming more and more likely day by day.

Why is it always the people who have little or nothing to do with it all end up paying the price?


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## vagman (Sep 6, 2002)

zedman said:


> got to say i do totally agree with free speech, but having the prophets turban depicted as a bomb did go way too far in my humble opinion, no need for that at all to make a point
> 
> and as far as arab newspapers go, never seen this myself so I can't comment but 2 wrongs don't make a right


From your response, I deduce that you are a Social Worker with long hair (lank) and a beard (straggly). Your hobby is basket weaving, you wear half mast linen trousers with sandals, even in winter, have dirt behind your fingernails and smoke rolly up ****.

...........if they don't like it, they know what to do.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Hes a muslim living in sheffield, but he could also be the other things too.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Religion causing problems YET AGAIN!! :?


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## vagman (Sep 6, 2002)

saint said:


> Religion causing problems YET AGAIN!! :?


erm no...........I think he is a council employee. :wink:


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## scottk (Nov 7, 2004)

bloody hell, its all over the news still!!!!!!!!

plus, people are now threatening to kidknapp westerners from the countries who published the cartoons.

Absolute ridiculous!


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

vagman said:


> saint said:
> 
> 
> > Religion causing problems YET AGAIN!! :?
> ...


 :lol:


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## zedman (Jan 31, 2005)

vagman said:


> erm no...........I think he is a council employee. :wink:


wrong there my man, no beard, quite short hair, no sandals, never tried basket weaving and not too much dirt underneath the fingernails


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

zedman said:


> vagman said:
> 
> 
> > erm no...........I think he is a council employee. :wink:
> ...


That was the social worker


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## zedman (Jan 31, 2005)

saint said:


> zedman said:
> 
> 
> > vagman said:
> ...


what u on about?


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## zedman (Jan 31, 2005)

vagman said:


> ...........if they don't like it, they know what to do.


whats that meant to mean? whos the 'they' you talking about? so its ok for people to make these cartoons (becuase of free speech) but its not ok for people to object - 2 way street not working here then? shame when people can give it but can't take it!

as for 'they know what to do', i dont know a single person who is 100% happy with the state of their world, western or eastern, everyone's got a problem with the govt, or the council, or their neighbour even so according to ur oh so intelligent theory everybody would be constantly migrating - ever heard of a word called compromise?

so by your own theory, u must like absolutely everything!


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## GW1970 (Jul 4, 2005)

scottk said:


> bloody hell, its all over the news still!!!!!!!!
> 
> plus, people are now threatening to kidknapp westerners from the countries who published the cartoons.
> 
> Absolute ridiculous!


It certainly is. It's the Salman Rushdie affair all over again.


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

zedman said:


> whats that meant to mean? whos the 'they' you talking about? so its ok for people to make these cartoons (becuase of free speech)* but its not ok for people to object *- 2 way street not working here then? shame when people can give it but can't take it!


It's absolutely correct that people have a right to free speech and also that people (any people) have a right to object. What isn't right is when that objection takes the form of violence. Threatening behaviour or actual violence should be treated exactly the same...

When is it right to threaten violence or be violent because of a cartoon? Never. The type of civilisation we live in allows for free speech and if the people that live in our society don't like free speech then they should find a country more suited to their views & lifestyle. There are Americans that do not like the "American way", so they find the UK more suited to their views and lifestyle... the same should apply to anyone in the UK.


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## jgray (May 8, 2002)

The world is shrinking - countries borders are dissapearing and national identiy is diminishing.

These knee jerk reactions of flag buring, hostage taking and staging protests only do more to promote intollerance.

I find it bizarre that a cartoon can promote such outrage in what is supposed to be a "civilised" world


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

The cartoon, imo, is a bit insensitive - imagine Christians outrage if there was a Muslim cartoon depicting God with a bomb attached to him!

Where it all goes wrong is when reprisals are called for by religious leaders - and calls such as "Paxman watch your back", and "we will issue a fatwah". FFS moan about it and get on with life.

On the Today show - Sir Jonathan Sachs (Jewish Head Rabbi) hit the nail on the head (almost) - he talked about being at school and not suffering religious bullying. He put it down to the kids having faith - I think he's wrong. Most kids don't have adult predudices - they see people for what they are - human beings! It all goes wrong when they start to enter the wider world away from the family unit and small groups and are influenced by their wider peer groups. 
:?

Crusade anyone?


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

jgray said:


> The world is shrinking - countries borders are dissapearing and national identiy is diminishing.
> 
> These knee jerk reactions of flag buring, hostage taking and staging protests only do more to promote intollerance.
> 
> I find it bizarre that a cartoon can promote such outrage in what is supposed to be a "civilised" world


The World is shrinking - and regardless of what each religions state - religion is not tollerant - until that can be sorted out we're all fecked.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

saint said:


> The cartoon, imo, is a bit insensitive - imagine Christians outrage if there was a Muslim cartoon depicting God with a bomb attached to him!


There would be no outrage, there would be various discussions, some quite strong, on telly at most, possibly the odd 4th page article. Thats it. It happens and thats all the reaction you will see.

Go on, name the Christian group that beheads people, blows people up or flys planes into things, errm, nope cant think of any.

Im a lifelong, total and unwavering athiest, I personally think that religion is a bag of shit that causes more trouble than its worth. Christians think I am wrong and pity me, the Muslims that cause the trouble  (i.e. Not All)think I am wrong and hate me as an unbeliever and believe I should die. Fair does, any of em out there PM me and ill meet you in Leeds somewhere.

However, this is not to say that Christians/Westerners are innocent in a historical sense. On the 21st of July 1209 a Catholic Army, physically led by the then Pope, surrounded and sieged the town of Beziers. This town was predominantly Catholic but there was a small population of Cathars who refused to convert to catholisism. The Papal army demanded the town handed over the Cathars. When the townspeople refused and swore to defend their fellow townspeople the Catholic Army slaughtered 15,000 men, women and children. Only 222 were Cathars.

But as someone else said earlier, 2 wrongs dont make a right. We have learned and grown up. Why cant the rest of the world?

Imagine where we would be if we stopped bickering about futile little things and got on with it, together. Hell, we may even have an Audi TT mk3!!!!



nutts said:


> When is it right to threaten violence or be violent because of a cartoon?


When that cartoon is Dennis the Menace but they decided to put him in a tutu, sacriledge.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

IRA - may not fly planes into buildings but certainly did have religious ties! Then there was that American Christian group that shot dead a doctor 'cos he carried out abortions.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

saint said:


> IRA - may not fly planes into buildings but certainly did have religious ties! Then there was that American Christian group that shot dead a doctor 'cos he carried out abortions.


IRA was purely political, religion never came into it. They wanted the UK government out of Ireland, not Protestants. There was no genocidal objective, no desire to change our way of life, no hatred of English people as a people.

As for the other one, that in itself shows the difference. Your counter argument for the torrent of Muslim Extremist bombings of innocent people, of Schools and so on is a single murder. You can hardly tarnish western society because of one murder. Muslim Extremists have been committing terrorists attacks all accross the world from Indonesia to Egypt, London to New York.

Dont for a second think that Im saying the West is innocent, we are not. We allow our Governments, through apathy, to do things that I am sure if we sat back and examined them we would disagree with.

Its the methods and the sentiment which I object to.

The stupid thing is that there is a fundemental misunderstanding between Muslim and Western culture. Westerners do not give in to terror, its a deep rooted part of our psyche which makes us disgusted when we see people being beheaded but resolute that we will not be coerced into anything. Our desire for and love of free thinking and free speech is so deep rooted that the most henious acts will not make us roll over and give in but actually become more steadfast.

This means it has no future but more death and carnage, a complete waste of time and lives.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

I think the reactions are going too far. We are in danger of creating extremism of a different type if we continue down this road. Certain groups like BNP etc will use this as a rallying call to say they are being pushed too far and may even start to push back.

IMO muslims groups need to lighten up and respect other peopleâ€™s rights to express their views without all this fuss and drama. No ones trying to stop or banned their religion. Pls respect other people views, or right to make them.

A joke or cartoon is just a funny way of express an exaggerated view, kinda like a characture. (not sure I spelt that right).

what a sad twisted world this is.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

Toshiba said:


> A joke or cartoon is just a funny way of express an exaggerated view, kinda like a characture. (not sure I spelt that right).


Yup, its like drawing someone smiling whilst driving an MG TF, we know its not true but its funny all the same


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Nice topical analogy.


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

Thinking of nutty extreme Christians.....David Koreash is one. He may never have planned to bomb or kill members of the general public. But he is responsible for preparing his followers to commit mass suicide.

Then there is the Catholic church that wanted to invade any country that wouldnt take up the pope as their leader.


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Have a listen to 'The The' (Matt Johnson) - 'Armageddon days (are here again)' from the excellent 'Mind Bomb' album :wink:


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/i ... orytopic=6

nowt else to say


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

genocidalduck said:


> Thinking of nutty extreme Christians.....David Koreash is one. He may never have planned to bomb or kill members of the general public. But he is responsible for preparing his followers to commit mass suicide.
> 
> Then there is the Catholic church that wanted to invade any country that wouldnt take up the pope as their leader.


Buts that was back in the dark days when the world was flat. :?


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Leg said:


> http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/index.php?storytopic=6
> 
> nowt else to say


As much as I find most of that page upsetting, disturbing and "wrong", unfortunately that is their culture, religion and law. We are entitled to voice our opinion, however strong, but only voice it. We have no right whatsoever to "do" anything about it... that is for them to change... it is their country, their laws, their religion (however upsetting that fact is).

We have no right to interfere... just as no-one has any right to interfere in our culture, our laws or our way of life, unless done by accepted and lawful means.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

nutts said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/index.php?storytopic=6
> ...


Couldnt agree more. If this is their internal way of life then thats fine. My point is, that they are trying tp push their culture, standards and beliefs on us and in the same way theirs arent anything to do with us, they should keep their noses out of ours.

And, as those cartoons were in a paper in our world, not theirs, our rules apply as theirs do to all those incidents on that website.

Otherwise I could kick up a fuss about those things and threaten to blow up the Iranian cafe in Leeds, couldnt I?

When they start threatening other countries, people and ways of life however, they drag the international community into it.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

So............................. anything else in the news today?


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## vagman (Sep 6, 2002)

saint said:


> So............................. anything else in the news today?


Now that you mention it....................yup. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 660104.stm

What shape was that headgear again. :?


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

saint said:


> So............................. anything else in the news today?


pass but i know of a good game of hide and seek.......anyone seen Sol? :lol:


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

:lol:


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## CraigKORE (Sep 17, 2005)

You just got to love the irony on the placard to the left:


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Hey - I know him - that's our next local MP - am sure he's representing some party called the Taliban or summit.

PS - The Taliban is given as an example - please feel free, if it offends, to substitute the name with any other appropriate political faction.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Hrmm.... is that PS supposed to be a PS or is it a PC :? :? :? :?


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

CraigKORE said:


> You just got to love the irony on the placard to the left:


Well done mate, that just finishes the thread and sums it up for me.

Hypocritical, unintelligent, retarded wankers.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

wheres the picture from ie is it in the uk?


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## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

I haven't bothered to read all of this thread, so appologies in advance if this has been said before but...

If you aren't allowed to picture the prophet's face anywhere, how does anyone know what he looks like???

H


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## Hilly10 (Feb 4, 2004)

We westeners have to realise that muslims are brain washed from birth with Islam it is the B all and End all of their life.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Hannibal said:


> I haven't bothered to read all of this thread, so appologies in advance if this has been said before but...
> 
> If you aren't allowed to picture the prophet's face anywhere, how does anyone know what he looks like???
> 
> H


And if ANY deity poses so as to have their likeness distributed then they should not make such a wardrobe faux pas. :roll:


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

Leg said:


> Hypocritical, unintelligent, retarded wankers.


That's what sums this up for me. And that goes for those Muslims that have made threats, and those newspapers that should know better.

I think everyone should forget this word "religion". It is a word continually used to justify actions, or excuse in-action.

If we took every country and its peoples in isolation what would the rational person conclude? Taking into account the country's social and economic level of development, how reasonable is the country run and the way it treats its people?

With due respect, you cannot measure all countries of the world against the same benchmark, as they are not on the same timeline. You can argue which country is the most developed, both socially and economically (UK? US? Japan?), and against which others should be marked. Which ever you choose, it is quite clear that in general centuries separate the stage of development of societies around the world.

Now consider this. Let's assume we pit 12th century western Europe up against 21st western Europe, but assume a similar level of economic and military strength. Would the result be so different from what we have now between the west and the east? Don't you think a fanatically run Catholic Europe would not be a little peeved at this cosmopolitan modern Europe that accepts and provides for peoples of all races and faiths, and is more and more discarding it's own religious heritage?

What if this modern europe satirised the leaders and saints of this old Europe for their blinkered, backward views and dictatorial rule? What would be the result?

Now add the economic effects. Modern Europe is running low on the essential raw materials needed to keep them "one step ahead". Old Europe just so happens has great reserves of these. How will that affect the way Old Europe behaves and equally the lengths Modern Europe are prepared to go to keep Old Europe in check?

And another step. What if there happens to be one country in Old Europe that has developed strong links with Modern Europe, whose actions Modern Europe is prepared to defend almost without question?

What's the conclusion then? I think we are in deep kaka! Looking at it in military strategic terms, the middle east is holding almost all the cards. One of those missing is a nuclear capability.

However, the most important missing are an alliance of anger and hatred against the west; and an overwhelming fear in western society. If they get these two, we are the only ones to blame.

There is a critical mass which we cannot let the situation escalate to - where our racist fanatics can present a more logical argument than those that govern us. I fear, more and more there is somehow an inevitability to our failure.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

Let me be clear on this, my post was 'Hypocritical, unintelligent, retarded wankers.' and it was posted WITH that picture of a man using his right, as a British Citizen, to use free speech. The reason why i believe he and hes colleagues are 'Hypocritical, unintelligent, retarded wankers.' is because the very mechanism which they denounce in their placards is the one which means they can denounce it without fear.

This is Britain, I couldnt give a flying fuck about religion, im an athiest and a dedicated one at that. I dont just not believe, more so I find humans use of religion to be repugnant. As the gun is not dangerous, neither is religion. Until you put it into the hands of people.

However, I do object strongly to anyone, of any race, creed or colour trying to change the core values and rights we hold dear and taking advantage of those values and rights to do so. And that includes anyone, including certain values from America (I HATE those damned 'had an accident? Want us to make a meal of it? We can get you MONEY MONEY MONEY cos some poor soul forgot to move that coffee mug - and that whole 'its someones fault attitude' is from America)

Now, im not against immigrants either. I will be one in the not so distant future as I am moving my family to Canada. But when I get there you will NOT find me objecting to any aspect of Canadian life. Why? Because if I didnt like it, I wouldnt go there in the first place.

In our world we can print cartoons about religious matters. Anyone who watched Spitting Image in the 80s will probably remember the Spitting Image Jesus who made a regular appearance, not to mention the obvious Life of Brian and many other references to Jesus the Hippy. Hell, how many of us have sung We Three Kings of Orient Are, One on a Scooter, one in a Car as kids (and pissed adults lol) eh? Is that not belittleing what some people think to be the most important thing in their lives?

When you go to Iceland, dont complain its cold. When you live in a Democracy dont complain about free speech.

Just dont go there if it doesnt suit you! Fuck off to Iran where you wont have anything to complain about (cos if you do they will chop yer head off).


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Leg said:


> Let me be clear on this, my post was 'Hypocritical, unintelligent, retarded wankers.' and it was posted WITH that picture of a man using his right, as a British Citizen, to use free speech. The reason why i believe he and hes colleagues are 'Hypocritical, unintelligent, retarded wankers.' is because the very mechanism which they denounce in their placards is the one which means they can denounce it without fear.
> 
> This is Britain, I couldnt give a flying fuck about religion, im an athiest and a dedicated one at that. I dont just not believe, more so I find humans use of religion to be repugnant. As the gun is not dangerous, neither is religion. Until you put it into the hands of people.
> 
> ...


I take it that you didn't get a BJ last night afterall?


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

nutts said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> > Let me be clear on this, my post was 'Hypocritical, unintelligent, retarded wankers.' and it was posted WITH that picture of a man using his right, as a British Citizen, to use free speech. The reason why i believe he and hes colleagues are 'Hypocritical, unintelligent, retarded wankers.' is because the very mechanism which they denounce in their placards is the one which means they can denounce it without fear.
> ...


Nope and the kids woke me up at 6 this morning too ffs, I think I should be bumped up to 'Too Much Fucking Time on My Hands' now tbh ;-)


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## Silver Shadow (Aug 29, 2005)

Leg said:


> CraigKORE said:
> 
> 
> > You just got to love the irony on the placard to the left:


Whatever the views of these people may be..... I was appalled to see them at the demonstration in London chanting 'UK, USA... BIN LADEN ON HIS WAY!!'

If that is not inciting racial tension/hatred then I struggle to find a better example, particulary in London after the bombings in July!!!

What is more annoying is that this bunch of radical (minority) idiots claiming to represent the Muslim community are apparently allowed to behave in this manner because it is too delicate politically for police to start making arrests. Even members of the muslim community would surely like to see these idiots dealt with firmly??


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

Of course, being a photoshopper I should have checked to see if that pics edited or not. I dont think it is tho.

As far as enciting racial tension is concerned, I think its working eh, hence a 6 page thread on a TT Forum??!?!!


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## GW1970 (Jul 4, 2005)

Silver Shadow said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> > CraigKORE said:
> ...


Well said that man! Weren't they also chanting for another 7/7? [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

Yes they were - but as with everything, it's a small number of extremists who f*ck it up for everyone else.

I think that's why there haven't been too many responses from the many decent Muslims on this Forum - either that or they are mortally offended too and we'd better go hide!

If you are a Muslim Extremist, f*ck off to Iran where you will be at home.
Understand that there are other religions, which deserve to be respected just as yours should. But threatening to kidnap and murder over a cartoon .... sorry you don't deserve to be a part of this world, it's not perfect but it's good enough


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## zedman (Jan 31, 2005)

personally I think the problem is that people don't realise just how offensive this is to Islam, I wouldn't condone making cartoons depicting anybody's prophet - certainly not with a bomb on their head. Another problem is that a minority of my fellow muslim brothers decide to not help matters by making stupid placards and chanting very offensive rude comments - there is no excuse for this sort of behaviour and let me apologise on behalf of them, they don't know how rude they are being.

in the sayings of our prophet 'the hadis', he said that one should rise above someone else's ignorance, be patient and explain your concerns to them, so they might understand your point of view and amend thier actions accordingly

unfortunately it seems with these cartoons people seem to want to fight fire with fire, but i don't think the media helps when they print things that are months old with the sole aim it seems of pissing people off, also it doesn't help when they only choose to report the bad side of demonstrating. I've not seen much coverage of the peaceful demonstration outside the BBC, i've not seen anyt of the peaceful protest today that was held outside the danish embassy...

anyway i'm not the most religious person, but those that i do know that are are not the ones you see threating kidnaps and chanting offensive rhymes, these are just people who really don't know any better, and I would question just how Islamic they actually are!


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

You could say cartoons taking the piss out of fat people is offensive to fat people. But i don't see fat people demonstrating about it. Also the website that shows ugly people. Mingers.com. Don't see mingers demonstrating and demanding that site to be shut down or demanding a apology from the website's owner. As ive said in previous posts that i think all religious faiths are peaceful if read and understood by people with a hint of commonsense. So im not moaning at muslims for their religion. I'm defending the right of freedom of speech and wanting people that are offended by it to lighten up.....It's just a cartoon for blooming sake.

BTW my favorite comedian is Iranian (Omid Djalili)


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

We dont force porn or alcohol on muslims when visiting their countries. I think we should be shown the same respect.


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## zedman (Jan 31, 2005)

Toshiba said:


> We dont force porn or alcohol on muslims when visiting their countries. I think we should be shown the same respect.


how do u mean? whats being forced?


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

Think Tosh is trying to say that we don't go into Muslim countries expecting to be able to watch porn, drink bear and eat pigs. Then to find out we can't then demonstrate about it and threaten to bomb people. I wouldnt go so far as to say we respect the laws in those countries because 1 Not many people know the laws and 2 Us Brits are by far the worst tourists. However we would abide by those laws. One of our laws in our constitution( If we actually had a written constitution) is to be able to say what we want when we want. In either a aural or written context. May not make it right but those are ours laws and customs and those people that live here should abide by and honour them.

Having said that. These people do have there right to freedom of speech and are being allowed to express it. But expressing anger towards what the vast majority of this country believes in is not a bright idea as i would like to point out that this sort off thing where we have Muslims demonstrating against our civil rights is what breeds racism. It's only a matter of time before it gets even the most liberal of us annoyed.


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Iran and the Nuclear Row

The recent events with regard to cartoons, Islam and the free world prove beyond any doubt that in the hands of religious extremists, a nuclear capability should be an absolute anathema.

Consider this also:

Quote: AlMuhajiroun was founded with the aim of restoring the Khalifah - the Islamic state. Its spiritual leader: Sheikh Omar Bakri-Muhammad once said "I want Britain to become an Islamic state. I want to see the flag of Islam raised in 10 Downing Street." And it's spokesman Anjem Choudrey, says "we would like to see the implementation of the Sharia law in the UK. Under our rule this country would be known as the Islamic Republic of Great Britain"


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## TuTTiFruTTi (Jun 24, 2005)

Anyone who is so weak in character and self belief as to have faith in a god deserves all they get in my opinion. Anyone whose belief in their god is shaken or insulted by a drawing or depiction has obviously been swimming in the shallow end of the gene pool. Anyone who then becomes violent and threatens death because of a drawing has no place in any society, especially mine.
This is'nt by any means limited to muslims - the so called christians who objected to the Jerry Springer Opera should have actually read their book of fables and turned the other cheek.
I saw the cartoons , especially the one with the bomb shaped turban , as a challenge to those murderers who hide behind a religion which allegedly espouses peace. How unfortunately ironic that the actions of those who have violently protested about the cartoon and threatened more 7/7 or Twin Towers or holocaust have proved the very point the cartoonist was making in the first place.


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## sssgucci (Nov 20, 2004)

genocidalduck said:


> BTW my favorite comedian is Iranian (Omid Djalili)


Is that the fat bald bloke that dances around?

If it is the he is hilarious!


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

TTCool said:


> Iran and the Nuclear RowSheikh Omar Bakri-Muhammad once said "I want Britain to become an Islamic state. I want to see the flag of Islam raised in 10 Downing Street." And it's spokesman Anjem Choudrey, says "we would like to see the implementation of the Sharia law in the UK. Under our rule this country would be known as the Islamic Republic of Great Britain"


_We shall not flag nor fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France and on the seas and oceans; we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air. We shall defend our island whatever the cost may be; we shall fight on beaches, landing grounds, in fields, in streets and on the hills. We shall never surrender and even if, which I do not for the moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our empire beyond the seas armed and guarded by the British Fleet, will carry on the struggle until in God's good time the New World with all its power and might, sets forth to the liberation and rescue of the Old. . _

Or, in other words, ''come on if u think yer hard enough!'' Nice one Winston lol, top man.

full speech, brings a tear to your eye and a big stick to your hand hehe

http://history.hanover.edu/courses/exce ... 1chur.html


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

sssgucci said:


> genocidalduck said:
> 
> 
> > BTW my favorite comedian is Iranian (Omid Djalili)
> ...


Thats the one...Was also in the Mummy and a few other films. Which makes me think why there arnt many Muslim mainstream comedians. Be a great niche to poke fun at themselves, their religion and also about people who are suspicious and dont understand islam. The Jewish have been doing this for years with great success. I think it may have in some part help drop peoples suspicion of the jewish faith.


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

ttcool wrote: Iran and the Nuclear Row 

The recent events with regard to cartoons, Islam and the free world prove beyond any doubt that in the hands of religious extremists, a nuclear capability should be an absolute anathema.



Leg said:


> TTCool said:
> 
> 
> > Iran and the Nuclear RowSheikh Omar Bakri-Muhammad once said "I want Britain to become an Islamic state. I want to see the flag of Islam raised in 10 Downing Street." And it's spokesman Anjem Choudrey, says "we would like to see the implementation of the Sharia law in the UK. Under our rule this country would be known as the Islamic Republic of Great Britain"
> ...


Nothing to worry about then? I say watch out for the stealth approach. My observations are that anyone who dares tell the truth ends up with a ruined career. What is going on? Attack by stealth has already started IMO.


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## sssgucci (Nov 20, 2004)

genocidalduck said:


> sssgucci said:
> 
> 
> > genocidalduck said:
> ...


There is mate. A muslim woman, she wears the full religous gear aswell. I dont know her name though.


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

sssgucci said:


> genocidalduck said:
> 
> 
> > sssgucci said:
> ...


Actually yes. I've seen her a couple of times. But not as funny as Omid.


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Jackie Mason - Brilliant


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## dee (Jun 3, 2005)

I just came back from 'kicking ass' in Zekistan!!

when is the Ten Hammers out... :?

what a wasted day 

:lol:


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

TTCool said:


> ttcool wrote: Iran and the Nuclear Row
> 
> The recent events with regard to cartoons, Islam and the free world prove beyond any doubt that in the hands of religious extremists, a nuclear capability should be an absolute anathema.
> 
> ...


I made my serious points pages ago in this thread and covered what you said, couldnt agree with you more but its all been said and anyway, stealth approach or not, it just aint gonna happen, Britain is Britain and its faced much worse threats than this.

Anyway, im off to live in Nova Scotia, Canada. I wont be around when the fit hits the shan, sorry.


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Leg said:


> I made my serious points pages ago in this thread and covered what you said, couldnt agree with you more but its all been said and anyway, stealth approach or not, it just aint gonna happen, Britain is Britain and its faced much worse threats than this.
> 
> Anyway, im off to live in Nova Scotia, Canada. I wont be around when the fit hits the shan, sorry.


Leg

Glad to hear you think it won't happen. That's a relief for my son and daughter. However did you mean to say "if the fit hits the shan". If you mean "when" then some of that fit might stuck to me. Not funny. :wink:

Anyway, I have friends who went to live in Canada. Not one of them regretted doing so. Hope you will still post on here. 

Regards

Joe


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