# Rockingham this morning...



## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Well... what can I say?

We were very lucky with the weather, and an early start from me (left the house around 7am) meant a pretty easy trip up to Corby from Hatfield in my Range Rover Sport.

On arrival at the track, I was sent to the inner paddock, where there was an Audi hospitality truck/tent, and a black R8 standing proudly outside.

Once inside the hospitality area, I was registered (Driving License and Disclaimer) measured for a helmet, given a name badge and wristband, and invited to enjoy a lovely bacon butty and some coffee and pastries whilst we waited for everyone else to arrive.

We quickly moved onto a briefing - some technical information about the car, plus some instructions for the morning's driving events, then paired off and headed out towards the waiting cars.

Seeing the line of R8s in various colours was pretty breathtaking. Daytona Grey, Silver, Black and Jet Blue were all lined up, with a combination of different leather colours and interior trim specs. Half manual, half R-Tronic, and all with ESP fully turned on, and Magnetic Ride fitted as standard.

Not being familiar with the R-Tronic style gearbox, I wanted to use the manual first, to get used to the car, so chose a black manual with cream leather, and bagged the driver's seat immediately!

The first part of the morning was a couple of 'sighter' laps around the circuit, before swapping over to be the passenger to my 'pair'. This gave a good chance to get familiar with the gated manual (I had to look to change gear to start with!) and get a feel for the pedals, ensure the driving position was correct, and get over my initial excitement.

The next stage was some cornering practice. The main group split into 2, there were now just 3 cars following the instructor. The track was coned off so we had a few corners to use, and we took it in turns to drive this part of the track, before turning round, driving back to the mark slower, and beginning again. Everyone got chance to follow directly behind the instructor, which was good, and once everyone had done this, I was hoofed out of the driving seat for my 'pair' to have his turn.

Being a passenger was actually quite interesting, as it gave a different vantage point and a chance to feel what was going on with the car.

After completing the cornering exercise, drove back to the paddock and swapped out of the manual cars. I leaped straight for the Jet Blue R-tronic which, in my opinion, was easily the best looking combination there. The Slalom course was laid out with cones, and was quite simple - a pair of cone slaloms with a 180 degree curve at the far end, and a 'garage' to park in at the finish. I did about 5 or 6 runs, before handing over and being the passenger - each time trying for slightly finer control. The R-tronic felt a little unnecessary for this exercise - I just stuck the car into Sport Manual mode, set off in 1st, changed up to 2nd and pretty much left it there for the rest of the course. The rev band was more than enough to complete the course like that.

The car was certainly able to change direction quickly and with very little fuss and absolutely no roll. It could be forced into snap steering slightly, coming out of the 180 degree curve with too much power, then turning the other way into the cones, but driving that section a bit smoother was much more rewarding.

Staying in the R-Tronic cars, we repeated the curves exercise, except in a different part of the circuit. I could feel the gearbox starting to come into its own at this point, and the double de-clutch and blip of the throttle on downshifts was very addictive.

Finally, we donned helmets for the full lapping of the circuit, and got back into the R-Tronic car once again... paced by the instructor (and down to just 2 cars this time) we did about 5 or 6 full laps, graduallly building up pace and confidence. I was really starting to get to grips with the R-Tronic and beginning to wonder if manual was the right choice afterall.

Back in the pits, it was time for the very last activity - full lapping in the manual car this time. Back into the black with cream leather car, and off onto the circuit. Suddenly all thoughts of the R-Tronic evaporated, and the manual just felt 'right'. A positive action, and a bit more thought is required, but ultimately (for me) it is more rewarding and 'natural' than driving like a Playstation or Xbox game.

Just as I was pushing on for my last 2 laps, a shower started, and the circuit got a bit greasy. Still trying to drive like it was dry, because I knew it was my last chance to really go to town in someone else's car, I pushed on perhaps a little fast into a couple of bends. The ESP really came to my rescue, stopping me from a probably spin on 2 seperate occasions. Time to respect the conditions a bit more, but then it was time to back off, complete the cool-down lap and become the passenger again. By this time it was raining a bit harder so the last session had to be taken a bit steadier, but the car proved more than capable in the wet, provided it was driven with a thought for the surface and grip levels.

Helmets off, it was time for a quick slice of pizza, then I had to rush back to work, as I'd only booked a 1/2 day off.

So... what did I learn today?

1) Manual for me! The R-tronic is actually better than I expected, and I'm glad I liked it, but even more glad that I prefer the manual
2) The car looks surprisingly good in silver (I wasn't expecting that!)
3) The engine note is utterly addictive and mesmerising - both from inside the car and outside
4) the car has truly heroic levels of grip, and feels very very stable even when changing direction at high speed
5) the brakes are superb - even on a greasy track and with a few laps under the belt, they scrub speed like there's no tomorrow
6) The ESP system is good. 
7) It is comfortable to drive
8) Above all else, it is a wonderfully confidence inspiring car
9) It looks truly amazing
10) I don't want to wait until December for mine

A cracking morning out. Rockingham was a great venue - a track well suited to the car, unlike trying to rag my S4 around Castle Combe

I'm still undecided about colour. I will wait until I see what the exclusive brochures have to offer on internal colours / leather etc.

Couldn't be arsed taking any photos, spent my time enjoying the day instead. Sorry! :lol:


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

Git! :wink:


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Are you sure you aren't a footballer?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

wallsendmag said:


> Are you sure you aren't a footballer?


Ur fcuking joking aren't you :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

W7 PMC said:


> wallsendmag said:
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> 
> > Are you sure you aren't a footballer?
> ...


Have you seen our Australian striker ,very similar physique


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Sounds like you had a blast.

I saw some photos somewhere of the cars displaying Audi Driving Experience & then reading the tasks you had, it seems to follow an ADE programme.

Was this an R8 ADE that they've given to R8 buyers as a thank you & for a bit of tuition etc.??


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> wallsendmag said:
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> > Are you sure you aren't a footballer?
> ...


What are you saying? I could walk into the Newcastle team TOMORROW. In fact they want to sign me up on a Â£15m deal, then immediately sell me to some foreign club for Â£2.5m.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

jampott said:


> W7 PMC said:
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> > wallsendmag said:
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Sounds about right :?


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> Sounds like you had a blast.
> 
> I saw some photos somewhere of the cars displaying Audi Driving Experience & then reading the tasks you had, it seems to follow an ADE programme.
> 
> Was this an R8 ADE that they've given to R8 buyers as a thank you & for a bit of tuition etc.??


Yeah, it was all under the 'ADE' banner basically - except instead of driving a range of Audis, it was just the R8s obviously.

There was less tuition than I expected, to be honest, as instead of being paired with an instructor, we were paired with each other.

Having said that, the car didn't really need any 'instruction' (for me, anyway) - simply following the instructors lines and taking time to get used to the track was good enough to be able to take the car well towards the limits of my morning's abilities, whilst still ably demonstrating what the car is capable of.

For those of you who have had the please of BOTH driving Castle Combe for yourself, AND being chauffered around by Rob Beves in his CSL... well, in my own car, I always felt lumpy, strained, edgy and ragged. Good fun, yes, but not how it should be done. Passengering with Mr Beves in the CSL showed what a driver in control of a car could do. The R8 experience felt MUCH more like the Mr Beves' style than my own in the S4. The R8 probably flatters, although I was paired with people who weren't brilliantly smooth at times... however, the sheer stability and weigth distribution of the car meant that it was much easier to push my own limits a bit further, and it didn't feel like me driving my S4 :lol:

Imagine something which sounds better than an RS4, and when you look at it, you don't think 'A4'. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> W7 PMC said:
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> > Sounds like you had a blast.
> ...


Yes but, at very close to twice the price i'd not want it to look anything like an A4 either, plus more people can be thrilled in my car than yours. :wink:


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## S10TYG (Mar 7, 2007)

Great write up Jampott. W7 PMC have you driven a 997 Turbo what is it like in comparison with the R8??


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

S10TYG said:


> Great write up Jampott. W7 PMC have you driven a 997 Turbo what is it like in comparison with the R8??


I've driven a couple of 997 Turbos (one being more than a little modified), however i've never driven an R8 so could not possibly comment. In fact, i've never even seen an R8 yet 8)

If i was spending/changing today, i'd probably opt for the R8 V8 over the 997 Turbo (just) & save myself Â£10-15K. I do think the 997 Turbo is overall the slightly better sports car, but that's purely my own personal opinion & the R8 by all accounts, does appear to have broken the mold.

The V10 R8 however should fully take the crown away from the 997 Turbo, but that's likely a good few more Â£Â£Â£'s & a while off being produced.


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## S10TYG (Mar 7, 2007)

What about a Â£3k DMS upgrade of 550bhp & 546ft/lb for the 911 Turbo? Would the R8 stand a chance around the track? Whats your opinion. I could just see that if I bought an R8 I would get bored of the power quickly.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

S10TYG said:


> What about a Â£3k DMS upgrade of 550bhp & 546ft/lb for the 911 Turbo? Would the R8 stand a chance around the track? Whats your opinion. I could just see that if I bought an R8 I would get bored of the power quickly.


No it wouldn't, but then apart from the now infamous Bedford times, i doubt any other track would see the R8 take a standard 997 Turbo, however the gap is not that big & bear in mind the 997 Turbo's starting price is well over Â£20K higher than the V8 R8.

I've driven DMS's development 997 Turbo & to me i doubt anything this side of a Veyron would beat that.


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## S10TYG (Mar 7, 2007)

W7 PMC said:


> I've driven DMS's development 997 Turbo & to me i doubt anything this side of a Veyron would beat that.


A used 911 for around Â£95k, a brand new specced up R8 is around that. Thats why I would favour the porker. What was the 911 turbo like to drive? it is 4wd isn't it?

cheers


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

I was talking to a Porsche owner during the day, and he's on his 4th or 5th Porsche, and currently drives a Turbo.

On looking round one of the static cars, he wasn't impressed with some of the panel gaps. I later found out this car had been off into the gravel the previous week and had suffered a bit as a result - but I mention his lack of initial awe as a precursor, really...

I spoke to him briefly at the END of the event, and he was very very impressed with the car. By his own admission, when he comes to an unfamilar piece of road with the Turbo, it is necessary to back off quite a bit. He didn't feel the same about the R8, after a relatively short time getting used to it.

My point being? Unless you are Walter Rohl, the R8 is probably 'quicker' under most A->B driving than a 911 Turbo, despite what the performance stats tell you. Regardless of the trick suspension and ESP of the Turbo, it wasn't called the 'widow maker' for nothing, and it needs utmost respect and absolute concentration if you plan on wringing the full performance from it. Some would say this is one of the things which makes it a great car. Others would say they don't posess (or have any intention of striving for) the sort of car control required to tame such a beast, thus making it practically useless over (say) a standard 911, or any other mid-range sports car for that matter.

Me? I want a car to instill a sense of confidence in me, not threaten to kill me if I put my trust in it. Taking on board the comments of a regular Porsche driver, with no axe to grind, who had already said some negative things about the R8, I think the R8 is a car more suitable to the abilities of your average driver than most cars of that type.

I'm not ashamed to say that's exactly what I'm looking for.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

S10TYG said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > I've driven DMS's development 997 Turbo & to me i doubt anything this side of a Veyron would beat that.
> ...


It's a tough call, but new for old i'd take a sensible spec new R8 against a used 997 Turbo & against a new 997 Turbo, pocket the Â£15-20K.

I know of 2 R8's spec'd up to Â£102K which is a tad rich for the car 

The DMS 997 Turbo is organ displacing. Unless i get to drive or passenger in a Veyron, i doubt i'll ever be in a car faster than that one. The 997 Turbo is 4WD & the way it handles is just sublime. It's also surprisingly easy to drive which i'd not expected from such a supercar.

I'd be shit scared to park it anywhere, but the same would apply to the R8. So many desirable cars available nowadays. Choices, choices.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> I was talking to a Porsche owner during the day, and he's on his 4th or 5th Porsche, and currently drives a Turbo.
> 
> On looking round one of the static cars, he wasn't impressed with some of the panel gaps. I later found out this car had been off into the gravel the previous week and had suffered a bit as a result - but I mention his lack of initial awe as a precursor, really...
> 
> ...


I beg to differ Tim & i'd probably have an R8 over a Turbo, but the only place you'll ever see the R8 V8 beat a 997 Turbo is the now infamous Bedford result which we all know was suspect to say the least.

The 997 Turbo would not walk all over the 997 Turbo, but their is no condition or environment that the R8 would truly win.

As for the "Widow Maker" that term relates to the GT2, not the Turbo. Same or even more power than a Turbo, but only RWD.

The 997 Turbo owner you spoke with must have an R8 on order given his attendance, so he'd now be a tad biaised. Also you would need to respect the extra power & torque in the Porsche as it's alot higher overall than an R8 (V8 version).

Not putting the R8 down at all, but the 997 Turbo has pretty much everything the R8 has, but with of course that extra 70BHP & a mass more torque. Having driven a couple of 997 T's, it really is not a difficult car to drive either in normal circumstances or in anger, what you do find is with so much performance, you are approaching corners etc. at a higher rate of knots than you would be in other cars. Also bear in mind it's got a 3.7sec 0-60 time, only a tiny number of cars can match or beat that.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

I don't agree that your average driver can get to grips with a 911 Turbo and be confident in driving it.

I also don't agree that Henrick was biased. Quite the reverse - he wasn't happy with the way the static car was put together, and was prepared to say so. He certainly wasn't waxing lyrical about how great it was.

With the balance, handling and grip of the R8, I'm suggesting this means you can push it harder than a 911, even a Turbo, and thus your AVERAGE driver can get from A->B quicker.

I spoke to an RS4 driver who has had the last 2 generations of RS4 and arrived in an Avant. It walks all over the handling of either. And he's taken the RS4 on track, too...

Of course I'm not buying the fact that the R8 is 'faster' (in performance terms) than the obviously more rapid Turbo. I'm saying that, in the real world, you can't exploit the Turbo to its full potential, and it won't be faster than the R8 because of this.

It isn't just about performance. It is driveability, handling, weight, balance and a whole host of other bits. The fastest cars around Top Gear's track aren't always the ones with the best performance figures.


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

The thing is: cars that seem to easy to drive tend to get boring quite quickly (at least what I found with my TT). A car that challenges you and threatens to kill you if you don't think about what you're doing makes you come back for more.

I wouldn't have the second type of car as a daily driver, as a relaxing cruise home is out of question, but for fun and trackdays I think it's great. It's the feeling that any mistake you make will see you rolling over in the grass out of that bend that makes the adrenaline pump up.

Pity that it seems that more and more manufactures are opting for the tamed, easily exploitable sports cars nowadays...


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

tehdarkstar said:


> The thing is: cars that seem to easy to drive tend to get boring quite quickly (at least what I found with my TT). A car that challenges you and threatens to kill you if you don't think about what you're doing makes you come back for more.
> 
> I wouldn't have the second type of car as a daily driver, as a relaxing cruise home is out of question, but for fun and trackdays I think it's great. It's the feeling that any mistake you make will see you rolling over in the grass out of that bend that makes the adrenaline pump up.
> 
> Pity that it seems that more and more manufactures are opting for the tamed, easily exploitable sports cars nowadays...


Point taken, but I don't think my (or your) R8 will feel anything other than special, for every journey. Mine, in particular, will be a daily driver in all 4 seasons. I wouldn't be considering it if it wasn't.

Don't get me wrong, the R8 was a great adrenaline rush, and it came from exploring my OWN limits, not those of the car... any my limits are slightly further away in an R8 than a Porsche. There's still plenty of room for it to excite on a track, without hurting on the road.

If I reach the safe limits of the R8, I'll consider something else.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> I don't agree that your average driver can get to grips with a 911 Turbo and be confident in driving it.
> 
> I also don't agree that Henrick was biased. Quite the reverse - he wasn't happy with the way the static car was put together, and was prepared to say so. He certainly wasn't waxing lyrical about how great it was.
> 
> ...


OK, maybe Henrick is a cock & can't drive a Porsche 997 Turbo (i assume it was a 997 & not a 996?) properly.

No point debating if the R8 is better than the RS4, as that's not the point & given the R8 spec'd is nearing twice RS4 saloon money, i'd hope your Â£85-90K sports car was better than my Â£50K Saloon.

Many many cars the R8 will be quicker than, but the 997 Turbo is not one of them. I can't speak for the R8 as i've never driven one but having driven 997 Turbos, i really can't imagine the R8 is that much easier to drive, as the 997 Turbo is no more difficult to drive than my car. If Henrick is a scaredy cat then fair enough, but i don't buy that the R8 gives a driver more confidence in the car, road & conditions than a 997 Turbo.

The defining fact is you're a hater of Pork, but of course a liker of Audi, whereas i like Porsche, Audi, BMW & don't rate any company better than the other. The R8 is awesome, has amazed the press & critics & has thrown Audi into a new market i for one thought they'd not manage (i was wrong), however knowing a little about cars, having driven 997 Turbos & hearing what's being said about the R8, i will until proved wrong (not including the dodgy Bedford tale) still state the same driver in the same conditions would be quicker anywhere in a 997 Turbo than an R8.

Tim, the 997 Turbo is a full second quicker to 60 & no doubt at least 2-3 seconds quicker to 100 & that's using the mfctrs stats, so unless the R8 encourages pussies to become competant racing drivers & the Porsche encourages pussies to become bigger pussies, then the car will not be beaten by the R8. TBH, i'd even doubt the V10 R8 will beat it, however i guess assuming what's rumoured is true it will no doubt match one.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> tehdarkstar said:
> 
> 
> > The thing is: cars that seem to easy to drive tend to get boring quite quickly (at least what I found with my TT). A car that challenges you and threatens to kill you if you don't think about what you're doing makes you come back for more.
> ...


How do you know your limits are further away in an R8 than a 997 Turbo?? Pure speculation you biggot :lol:

Can agree with everything else & your point if aimed at a GT2 or GT3 would be believable, but against the Turbo it just aint. Good points in general though & i know fully where you're coming from.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> jampott said:
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> 
> > tehdarkstar said:
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You've said yourself that the RS4 is probably a more usable 'fast' car than an M5...

Both are cars that you are familiar with. I don't think I need to say anymore. :wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> W7 PMC said:
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Very true & hence my point about the GT2 & GT3 to which your point holds much water. Both those cars are RWD as is the M5 & in these the respect & care levels need to increase over a Quattro car & the main reason i walked away from the M5, but the same does not apply to the 997 Turbo, as that to is AWD & a damn good system it is to.

I'm hardly a great driver, but pushing a 997 Turbo was no more scary than pushing the RS4, of course the 997 Turbo would be going a bit quicker, but once you've realised the awesome performance of the car, it's not hard to drive a 997 Turbo well within it's limits, still look like a great driver, whilst at the same time remaining as safe as i would in the RS4. In the no more scary i also include the DMS 997 Turbo which at close to 580BHP & 1000nm is inter galactic quick & again it was no more difficult to handle than the RS4, but light years quicker.

At the end of the day Tim you're gonna adore the R8, as it's stunning & appears to perform exceptionally well & i do know exactly where you're coming from regarding limits & usability of a cars performance, but the 997 Turbo is no more scary or difficult to drive safely than the RS4 is or the RS6 was & it's safe to assume the R8 although a better performer, shares many of it's underlying characteristics with these cars, although to a greater degree of course.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jampott said:


> I spoke to him briefly at the END of the event, and he was very very impressed with the car. By his own admission, when he comes to an unfamilar piece of road with the Turbo, it is necessary to back off quite a bit. *He didn't feel the same about the R8, after a relatively short time getting used to it.*


That's because he has never driven one on an unfamiliar piece of road - only around Rockingham round and round on an Audi driver day. :roll:

Truth is a 997T will monster an R8 on the road with even a moderately skilled driver. The torque alone will instantly compensate for any cautiousness into corners, the moment that corner opens out. The R8 is relatively flaccid on torque by comparison.

Now i know you like Autocar's view on the trounced M3. Maybe you also read the recent Autocar Veyron, Gallardo SG, R8, Aston, and GT3RS article? No? Well on the R8, and i am paraphrasing, it was said.

<<Handles great on the road and feels fast, but, take on a GT3RS on the road in an R8 and you wouldn't see which way it went>>

Or are Autocar full of crap?

I have driven a 997t but not an R8. But I think it is safe to say that the 997T is a faster road car - since you are never going to safely get to the edge of the handling/grip on public road of either, you will instead rely
on acceleration fuelled by torque. 997T is king here. Rohrl or not.


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## V6 TT (Sep 24, 2002)

...hmm, some maybe missing the point somewhere with BIG wives tales...the C4S is the direct competition for this V8 R8'er from the Porsche stable (or even the C2S as it's lighter and more nimble), I'd steer well clear of the new Turbo, GT3 or RS variants Tim or you'll like like a chump...to even talk about a comparison and your assumed limits against the 997 Turbo when you've not driven one is, well pretty farsical but great entertainment never the less! :lol: It's great you're that excited about spending that much money on an Audi.

I loved the R8 on the road and to look at but it's no Turbo beater setting looks aside for me. They are like chalk and cheese in every respect and will attract completley different buyers.

Let's not even get into the fact you could throw Â£10k into the pot and actually own 997 Turbo and own a car which could blitz most precious metal out there day to day...just stick to what you know fella...Audi = safe

D


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## S10TYG (Mar 7, 2007)

I was just comparing a specced up R8 around the value of a Â£95k to a second hand 997 turbys. I would buy the 997, go down to southampton to DMS. Then on the way out no R8 would be keeping up with me.


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## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

jampott said:


> Rockingham was a great venue - a track well suited to the car, unlike trying to rag my S4 around Castle Combe


 Which configuration of Rockingham was used?

I like Rockingham but Combe takes a lot more balls than Rockingham to drive near a car's limit; the infield at Rockingham is very safe but rather 'Mickey Mouse'; the banked section of Rockingham is fun and driving a few inches from the concrete wall in the wet is scary.


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