# The benefits of having an association with a company brand.



## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

I'll start by saying I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to business :wink: But, I don't think I've done too badly by using those old fashioned traits of being honest, decent and employing a liberal dash of hard graft.

For 3+ years I've had an entirely happy association with a company, no names (the clue is in my Avatar :wink: )
I got a modest discount which I happily split equally between customer and myself - at times the customer got the lions share.
It was in my eyes a mutually beneficial association. I shifted products, they made their cut and I got use their logo.

That company achieved a small amount of publicity from those who showed off my handiwork around the bazaars...I waved the flag for them and the products are good, so no problems there.
I owed them nothing, nor me them.

In a relatively short period of time their products have gained worthy UK wide recognition due to the efforts of their small, but happy band of foot soldiers. Life was pretty good for everyone.

Move along to the beginning of this month and the postie delivers me a letter from my "associated company"

For the small sum of Â£500+vat, they would like me travel to Yorkshire to be "assessed" for a day. If my assessment was deemed to be unsatisfactory, I could stay for an additional period and pay Â£1200+vat.
Accomodation, food and travelling are my responsibility
The sweetner would be that I would get a company T-shirt free!
I'm licking my lips in anticipation :wink:

Once "passed" I would be able to / enjoy the benefits of: 
*Use their logo for 2 years on my site. After the 2 year point I would have to be re-assessed again and dig into my wallet again.

*I would have my product discount *reduced* by 5%

*My company name would * not* be displayed as an approved detailer on their site. In 3 years I have one positive contact as a result of a customer "pinging" my details from their site.

*Their aim is to have a significant chunk of he UK's work channeled through them and then referred to me if appropiate, at a cost to *me* of Â£50.00 ...I have to absorb or pass on that referral fee!

There are a few other odds 'n sods rolled into this plan, but due to porous brain syndrome, they temporarily escape me :wink:

I've had a few conversations with them, I must be thick as I just don't "get it"
But to all those with more business accumen that me, tell me that if I opt to pass on this and become "independant " I'll not be shooting myself in the foot :wink:

Dave


----------



## RK07 (Jul 31, 2007)

Personally I think you'll do fine by yourself. Naomi has been getting loads of compliements about the Mini when she has parked it at work - Yes! Even more than normal :lol:


----------



## jbell (May 15, 2006)

So basically they want you to go to see them and pull your pants down while they ask you how hard you would like to be BF'd.

Doesn't seem like a great deal IMO :wink:


----------



## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

Well you have the clientele, you have the reputation.

We all sing the praises of the product but also know there is another product out there ending "ol" instead of "ax". Will they let you sing their praises without any BF?


----------



## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

Thanks Matthew  Was a nice way to spend Sunday - sadly Jackie spent more than I earned 

Yes, agree with all your comments - my post was of course, tongue in cheek!
They're following the route of their closest competitor who decided to wack all their detailers with a Â£5k/year "license fee" this year.
For those that bent over and paid, I'm unsure whether to laugh at or feel sorry for them...that's a lot of cars to get through before you start putting money in your pocket.

Slightly more modest "money grab" here, but the sad thing is all the guys who helped give their name greater prominence will be leaving at the end of the year. Same happened with Zymol's guys earlier this year.

The most telling phrase when I had a chat with them was "we want to move the emphasis from products to detailing" meaning, you've done the hard work in raising product awareness, now we want a slice of what's working for you....or, we're happy sitting on our back ends and let you pay us.

Swissvax v Zymol use them both and have never made a secret of it. Both are good products.

Being on my own holds no fears. I'll simply say "Swissvax approved 2004"...all above board 

Dave


----------



## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

Jac-in-a-Box said:


> Being on my own holds no fears. I'll simply say "Swissvax approved 2004"...all above board
> 
> Dave


Better yet...

Swissvax approved 2004 _and_ TT Forum Legend 2002 -


----------



## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

jbell said:


> So basically they want you to go to see them and pull your pants down while they ask you how hard you would like to be BF'd.
> 
> Doesn't seem like a great deal IMO :wink:


 :lol:

What a bunch of tossers!! Are they not making enough money out of people charging 3 grand for a sponge? :?

Judging by the standard of your work Dave I think you'll be throwing your money down the drain. There's no way in hell you'd pass their assessment!! :wink:

Maybe you should charge them 500 quid to travel up to the bonny isle and then show them how easily a tub of their Caruba wax can be inserted up their nether regions!!


----------



## StuTTer (Oct 13, 2007)

You mentioned that your discount for the product would be reduced. But would you use enough to make the discount pay for the assessment and then some?

Or as an independent (bulk?) buyer of the product, would you be able to source the product just as cheap from them?


----------



## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

Personally Dave I would sod it off completely and brand your own products under the Jac-In-A-Box brand. That would be the ideal.

If not then continue to use their products but concentrate on *your *own brand and *your * service and not the materials and consumables you use. Frankly I was hoping to book you to go to BMW Leeds in March to pre treat my new M3 (rather than the cackarse stuff they offer) because of your reputation, not Swissvax's. I think that that goes for everyone. If you turned up, said 'Rich, I dont recommend Swissvax for a white car and instead I'll use Humpty Dumpty Wax' I would just go with your advice.

I would say its about the Jac-In-A-Box brand and not the Swissvax brand so promote that, set up a set of standards for your brand and measure yourself against them, who gives a toss what Swissvax think of what you do when your customers think very highly of you!

Err, so can you do March? :wink:


----------



## thebears (Jan 14, 2006)

Dave

What a shame you put the effort in and that's the reward you get, personally i would tell them to whistle for it and use another product if you can. However you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot either.

Tough call to make, as mentioned buying direct yourself as a normal customer what would that add to your prices, if it is marginal can it be absorbed or past on to the customer as a "price increase"

I certainly would pay more for the level of service, dedication and efforts you did on my car next time.

Hope all works out
Dale


----------



## trev (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi Dave
What a bummer of a letter to get, it will be some young accountant in the company trying to make a name for themselves, ripping of the lads at the sharp end as you have said you and other detailers have promoted the product for the last few years and this is how they repay you, go independent Dave ive worked with you and the detail, hard work, &dedication you put into every car has built your reputation to what it is today 
Â£500 for a T-shirt!!!! Then they say your not up to standard give us another Â£1200 
Stuff that :evil:


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

TBH Dave & as one of your very happy customers, i'd sack them off. Your choice as to which product you use, but the association means nothing to me. You could detail my car with poodle shit & if the results were as good as you always produce, i'd not give a toss (assuming no after smell :lol: ).

Use whatever product you feel gives the best results, get the best deal you can & if it means you charge an extra few Â£Â£'s then so be it.

You'll get my repeat business regardless.


----------



## John C (Jul 5, 2002)

Ditto above - We buy Dave not the Wax. Repeat customer here when it needs doing again.

Plus now you live in Scotland you need to act like a tight arsed git like us and not spend anymore money than you have to. :wink:


----------



## nutts (May 8, 2002)

I agree with everyone on this thread Dave. Go product independent and us ethe Jac-in-a-box brand.

You'll ALWAYS get business purely because you are damn good at what you do  and not because you use one brand or another.

Perhaps you should look at branding your own products (cloths, shampoo, detailer, etc) 

Good luck, though not sure you need any luck mate


----------



## p1tse (Sep 20, 2004)

many options to think about for example in a basic sense:

Option 1
invest the Â£500 +vat for 2 years
and think about the sales/revenue & costs ;(profit) that you can generate in that 2 years.

Option 2
go to the main rival, invest the Â£5k and think about the same as above.
you didn't mention what the Â£5k includes, i.e. free products etc.

Option 3
choose another supplier. this is very open, as can look at other global brands

Option 4
Go alone, without the rights to advert
and use whatever products you think is best

etc. etc.

but on a crude point, just think about the investment costs, add in the forecast sales/revenue and what costs are associated with it (mainly products), to come to a crude profit term.

obviously going forward with option 1 you'll be able to project better on sales, costs etc.

so the other options may come up with better figures, you'll have to consider the risks on the probability on forecasted sales etc.

the main cost (apart from travelling), i assume from detailing are products. so i'm guessing a preferred supplier relationship, is more beneficial, as you know what your getting, when you get it, the costs etc.

good luck

p.s. how much business do you get apart from ********, friends etc. maybe it might be worth going alone, but then again how quickly can you recoup the Â£500 in 2 years with the added bonus of reduced items.


----------



## Gizmo750 (Sep 16, 2004)

As yet another happy customer Dave I agree with a lot of the above comments and I bought into you, your attitude, professionalism and hard work - rather than the name of the product you actually use.

Having seen all the pictures of your work I was quite (well, reasonably) happy to wait nearly 3 years to see you down on the south coast and would welcome you again - regardless of product in your boot. You know your stuff and you go out of your way to provide everything you can to leave the customer happy, and in my book thats where the value and credability is in what you do.

Remember, people buy from people! Its a bit of a cliche but its so very true

All the best fella

Guy

PS Any chance you can let me have a copy of the pictures you took of my car after your hard work - the ones I took were on a memory card that corrupted and I cant repair it.


----------



## davidg (Sep 14, 2002)

My 2p for swiss :roll: :wink:


----------



## John C (Jul 5, 2002)

Think you have said this Dave but I assume you will still be able to source Swissol from them if you want? And attract your normal bulk discount? The only thing you will loose is the nothing referrals you don't get from their website?

Eeny Meeny Miny Mo - not hard is it, do they really think people like you will fall for it? Silly people.


----------



## paulie1 (Mar 6, 2007)

Swissvax boycott now!!!


----------



## p1tse (Sep 20, 2004)

i don't think Â£500 (if you dependant you pass), is that bad for 2 years. 
as long as the discount/ reduced prices you get cover this quickly. 
also still getting referrals, which means some extra revenue from no extra advertising costs, but Â£50 to swallow somewhere down the line is still quite a bit i guess.

Â£500 investment can be seen (if pass), a day out for training, brushing up any new or old skills, meet more people in the trade. obviously they have to cover the costs of people testing (their accomodation etc.) and products for that day.

but as said above, if you still get a bulk discount, might work out slightly cheaper, with not having to pay the Â£500, but what;s the estimated loss sales?

Another option is to find a supplier which you'll willing to sponsor, i.e. help them advertise while getting discounted products through them.


----------



## The Silver Surfer (May 14, 2002)

trev said:


> Hi Dave
> What a bummer of a letter to get, it will be some young accountant in the company trying to make a name for themselves, *ripping of the lads *at the sharp end as you have said you and other detailers have promoted the product for the last few years and this is how they repay you, go independent Dave ive worked with you and the detail, hard work, &dedication you put into every car has built your reputation to what it is today
> Â£500 for a T-shirt!!!! Then they say your not up to standard give us another Â£1200
> Stuff that :evil:


That's stretching the imagination a wee bit is it not, Trevor? :lol: :wink: Must be some time since someone called Dave 'lad'. :wink:

Sounds like a really raw deal to me, Dave. If I were you, I would go it alone. As Trevor says, your reputation and hard work speak for themselves.


----------



## p1tse (Sep 20, 2004)

but as mentioned if you leave, what are the potential losses from refferrals etc.

jac-in-box, would like to hear some feedback on what you think and options to go for


----------



## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

p1tse said:


> but as mentioned if you leave, what are the potential losses from refferrals etc.
> 
> jac-in-box, would like to hear some feedback on what you think and options to go for


Sure he said there was only one referral to date...so no loss then!


----------



## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

BreTT said:


> p1tse said:
> 
> 
> > but as mentioned if you leave, what are the potential losses from refferrals etc.
> ...


As Brett has pointed out, no loss. That 1 wasn't a referral as such, he simply spotted my name on SV's site.

If I should stay with them my name *won't* appear on their site. That potential customer will contact SV, who in turn will refer that contact to me and I pay SV Â£50.00.

The price for that job will more than likely be fixed by SV too, mooted at Â£350.00 - they want UK wide pricing parity. Dangerous move that could cause me difficulties - some cars I see will need 2 or sometimes 3 days work to sort out if the customer wants absolute perfection. I'm not doing 3 days work on a car for Â£300.

Good isn't it!

Moving on...

Nice comments guys, thank you 

My decision to go alone was 99% made within a couple of minutes of reading the letter.
Sure, the ability to use the SV logo conferred a little kudos, but in reality gave me little else. The bulk of my work cmes from repeat business and referrals - which is nice and if shows I must be getting it mostly right!

I've nothing against SV products and I'll certainly not cut my nose off to spite my face and stop using them.
The loss of discount isn't such a big deal. At most it'll cost me an extra Â£2.50/car in material costs.

I'd probably pay the Â£500 IF I knew what it was being spent on... to be told advertising doesn't cut it for me. I've heard that SV has spent close to Â£40k this year on advertising...if there have been any benefits, then the detailers haven't seen them. It might have generated direct sales of products for SV GB , that doesn't help me and I don't see why I should subsidise their profit generation.

"A day out to learn something new" erm, no! 
Not said in arrogant "no-one can teach me anything" manner. 
What it translates to, cynically perhaps, is an opportunity for Gmund Cars (who are SV GB) to have one of their used Porkers detailed by me and I pay them Â£500+vat for the favour...add in fuel for a 600 mile round trip, food, accom, the loss of a day or two's paid work for me etc - getting a little costly isn't it?

Yes there are a few worthy products nipping at the heels of SV , I'll use them (and have done) as either stand-alone products or in combination with SV products.

By the end of December this year there will be no independant re-sellers -they will all be kicked into touch. No-one will be getting any significant discount unless it's from one of new trenche of detailers...and I suspect the reduced discount will make it difficult for those guys to offer much in the way of savings.
You'll probably have noticed that SV has withdrawn the 10% discount for forum members as well...they really are aiming to take the lot :?

Their aim, apparently, is to have 60 approved detailers throughout UK. As it's unlikely that any of the current 10 approved guys are going to front up the money, the new crop (if anyone goes for it) will be paying Â£1200 for "approval"...nice little earner while diluting the brands exclusivity.

No sour grapes, no axe to grind - just won't be handing cash out for no tangible benefit 

Anyway, my rags are about to be hung up for this year until the sun comes out again. Meanwhile Mrs J-i-a-B has reclaimed me for "ing" duties...hoovering, cooking, shopping, painting etc. Great :roll:

Dave


----------



## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Jac-in-a-Box said:


> Anyway, my rags are about to be hung up for this year until the sun comes out again. Meanwhile Mrs J-i-a-B has reclaimed me for "ing" duties...hoovering, cooking, shopping, painting etc. Great :roll:
> 
> Dave


With your quality of work Dave you dont need any ones name behind you [smiley=thumbsup.gif] 
How ever lets hope Mrs J-i-a-B dose'nt set up a test for your ing skills that might be another story :wink: :lol:


----------



## p1tse (Sep 20, 2004)

i'm glad you made a decision. with the weighting of the benefits of intangile and tangiles, and your experience it does seem the Â£500 isn't worth it, plus the hassle with it and no real benefit outcome.

as for discounts and wanting 60 detailers, it sounds like they've got a new big boss in with new strategies or paid some consultant to come up with a long term plan for them and trying to recoup some of that money :lol:

good going, and best of luck


----------



## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Just found this thread and I agree with most of the comments, its the jac-in-a-box service that I pay for. I use Swissvax ,but I can't get anywhere near Dave. Both my TTs have had the pleasure of Dave working on them and I'm sure (weather permitting ) that I will pay Dave to use whatever next year.


----------



## episteme (Mar 30, 2006)

What a load of bollocks, Dave. If anything they should be paying YOU for demonstrating what is possible with their products.

Evidently they are the Microsoft of the detailing world.


----------



## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

As everyelse said Dave shame about this, I also bought from you and not Swissvax, I like the look/sound/price of Dodo juice maybe give them a whirl


----------



## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

They are effectively asking you to become a franchisee. From their point of view having a number of valeters spread across the country would bring in an extra income stream. Generally people don't take on a franchise in the same business sector as they are already oporating in if their existing business is sufficiently profitable. Their new way of looking at their business model should not stop you getting a discount or, indeed, oblige you to take out a franchise. The discount they currently offer you is in recognition of the volumes you purchase from them and a "sweetener" to keep you loyal. If they decide to remove the discount then that is their loss, not yours, you are free to purchase from whomever you chose.

Are Swissvax products so much better than the competition? Anything less than a 20% discount is only a token gesture and doesn't suggest a long-term business relationship.


----------



## thebears (Jan 14, 2006)

Can i have a tub of wax then Dave :lol: :wink:

Before we all get ripped off :lol:

Joking aside the more i read of this and if it translates to paying "Â£2.50" extra per car then who's going to argue with that.

Good luck and enjoy the ".....ing"


----------

