# Haldex Gen 1 Competition controller by HPA?



## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

Is anybody using HPA Motorsports' competition version of the Haldex Gen 1 controller? Anybody familiar with it? HPA states it does what the old 80's quattro's did in racing . . . keeping the rear axle engaged during braking (as opposed to freewheeling it which is what the OEM and standard Gen 1 upgrade do according to them). If it is a better modification than the standard Gen 1 upgrade, it figures that I'd stumble over it just days after buying the standard Gen 1. :? Grass is always greener, huh! :mrgreen:

I suppose I could try to return the one I just got. Of course, if no one's used the competition one, I'm not certain I'd want to take the risk of something untried (although that hasn't stopped me before). There just might be a reason why I should stick with the standard upgrade. The standard Gen 1 seems to be very dependable given the comments I've seen about it.


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

Sorry . . . Here's the link to HPA Motorsports Gen 1 Competition Haldex. Meant to put it on the previous post.

http://hpamotorsports.com/haldex.htm


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

Well done Vrroom good find!! going to do some research on this little baby, as im going to be up for a haldex controller soon!! sounds bloody awesome. Love the breaking feature as you mentioned! 

Damien.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

With this controller there is the issue that under braking whilst turning at speed the TT will become unstable and is only recommended for track..i believe..although the benefit of permanent AWD might be of a higher priority to the user.
Steve


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## Mondo (Feb 20, 2009)

I thought Rich was trying to get a GB going on this baby. :?


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## rustymania (May 21, 2011)

where is this available from? how much?


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

V6RUL said:


> With this controller there is the issue that under braking whilst turning at speed the TT will become unstable and is only recommended for track..i believe..although the benefit of permanent AWD might be of a higher priority to the user.
> Steve


Thanks Steve. "Unstable" as in "spinning out"? Or worse?


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

Mondo said:


> I thought Rich was trying to get a GB going on this baby. :?


Pardon my ignorance Mondo  GB = group buy?


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## neilc (Aug 8, 2011)

TTSPORT666 said:


> Well done Vrroom good find!! going to do some research on this little baby, as im going to be up for a haldex controller soon!! sounds bloody awesome. Love the breaking feature as you mentioned!
> 
> Damien.


Yep , sounds interesting this.


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

rustymania said:


> where is this available from? how much?


PA Motorsports $999USD http://hpamotorsports.com/haldex.htm


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

TTSPORT666 said:


> Well done Vrroom good find!! going to do some research on this little baby, as im going to be up for a haldex controller soon!! sounds bloody awesome. Love the breaking feature as you mentioned!
> 
> Damien.


Thanks Damien! Please let me know what you determine and if you think it's a good choice.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Vrroom said:


> V6RUL said:
> 
> 
> > With this controller there is the issue that under braking whilst turning at speed the TT will become unstable and is only recommended for track..i believe..although the benefit of permanent AWD might be of a higher priority to the user.
> ...


The only benefit i can see is the assisted mechanical braking during braking, which in my opinion should be done when preparing for the corner and not whilst in the corner, however i do tend to brake a little during mid corner to readjust.
This unit may be of benefit to the right driver but not for me.
I have the blue fitted which releases the rear drive under braking.
Steve


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

What I've understood is that with that controller engine braking is done in two axles in stead on just front axle. So basically it just splits the engine braking more evenly without altering the cars balance, in theory... In snow and ice engine braking alone can brake the traction so there you can notice it, but on a sticky track tarmac... hard to believe it makes a difference.

Haven't driven a car with one so just guessing.


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

neilc said:


> TTSPORT666 said:
> 
> 
> > Well done Vrroom good find!! going to do some research on this little baby, as im going to be up for a haldex controller soon!! sounds bloody awesome. Love the breaking feature as you mentioned!
> ...


Does indeed Neil.... I am going to write to the company and ask a few questions. One of them being on what application this is best suited. Seems a slightly more intelligent unit on the surface than the blue haldex. But it definitely warrants proper investigation.

Steve where did you get your information from based on your quote that is best used on the track, and it makes the car unstable when turning and braking?

Damien.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

V6RUL said:


> The only benefit i can see is the assisted mechanical braking during braking, which in my opinion should be done when preparing for the corner and not whilst in the corner, however i do tend to brake a little during mid corner to readjust.


Make your mind up Steve :? :lol:


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Steve where did you get your information from based on your quote that is best used on the track, and it makes the car unstable when turning and braking?

Damien.[/quote]

There is quite a bit of info on google about blue/orange.
Here is a link from Vortex but there search function has loads more info if you can work out how to work it..
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... -or-orange
Steve


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

jamman said:


> V6RUL said:
> 
> 
> > The only benefit i can see is the assisted mechanical braking during braking, which in my opinion should be done when preparing for the corner and not whilst in the corner, however i do tend to brake a little during mid corner to readjust.
> ...


If your going to chop quotes down, then of course they wont make sense.
Steve


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## Mondo (Feb 20, 2009)

Vrroom said:


> Mondo said:
> 
> 
> > I thought Rich was trying to get a GB going on this baby. :?
> ...


No pardon required, pardner.  Yep, GB in this context means Group Buy. As opposed to Great Britain. Or Girls Brigade, which I'd love to join.  :roll: :lol:


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

Mondo said:


> Vrroom said:
> 
> 
> > Mondo said:
> ...


Thanks Mondo!


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I might be wrong but I think Frase might have the orange controller


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

I just did about an hour's worth of reading on Vortex on this issue. And I'm still confused (of course, that's my usual cognitive state anyway, so reversing that in itself is a challenge!).

If I'm understanding any of it, it seems the basic premises are:

1.Blue is for daily driving; orange (aka silver competition) is for track.
2.Both make the ratio 50/50, but orange keeps the rear engaged during braking (not all the time, just during braking) as opposed to blue which releases the rear during braking.
3.Orange apparently causes binding at slow speeds and tight turns. (OK . . . what do they mean by binding here? Is that the typical drag your tires across the pavement that you get in a real 4WD system, like on an old SUV (like LandRover, or Suburban) when you lock the hubs into 4WD? Or is there some stopping of the rotation of the wheel? If the latter, that would be bad. Some said it's just a sound and don't worry about it. Hmmm.
4. Some said disengage ESP to stop the binding. Well, I disengage ESP all the time because I don't want my wheels dropping out decided on by the computer. So, does the Orange (or Blue) do its intended work only when ESP is engaged? This definitely confused me, because when I install the Blue (or Orange if I swap out), I'll still punch the ESP button when I start my car.

I'm still inclined to get the orange. I'm concerned about safety (I don't want to crash my car simply because I played the "I want it better" game). And I'm concerned about the "binding" . . . whatever that is.

Now to go take some aspirin.


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

It's not that complicated. There is a clutch in this Haldex system operated by a pump. Clutch can slip or lock this way the power is distributed from 100:0 -> 50:50. Controller decides when to put power to rear and how much.

Stock controller puts power to rear (so that you can notice it) when front wheels are spinning.
Blue does this before your fronts are slipping, it makes the decision based on throttle position.
HPA does the same as blue and keeps the clutch locked in braking.

TT has open differentials in front and rear axels, so you don't need to worry about dragging tyres.

ESP starts messing with the brakes and acts as an electronic LSD, when wheels are spinning. If you don't want that (that electronic system actually help when you are stuck in snow) turn off ESP, the when you are stuck only one tyre on both axels will spin.


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks Nate. That is very helpful. So, it seems to me it doesn't sound all that dangerous to go with the Orange controller. And the mentioning of the ESP on Vortex seems like it was just a red herring. And when they said binding, were they talking about dragging tyres? or something else? Given your clarification, that too sounds like a red herring.

Even though my TT is my daily driver (track I do maybe once or twice a year), I'm inclined to go with the Orange. Anyone think that is a really bad idea?


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

There may be a need to replace the clutches in your Haldex, more often.
Steve


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

V6RUL said:


> There may be a need to replace the clutches in your Haldex, more often.
> Steve


Thanks Steve. I'm willing to add that cost. It's a hobby. I guess I should just ask my dealership to check it each year when I do my annual service (10K mile service) which effectively means about every 5 or 6K miles. Probably have them do the fluid and filters annually too.


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## nate42 (Apr 9, 2008)

V6RUL said:


> There may be a need to replace the clutches in your Haldex, more often.
> Steve


As Steve said orange puts more stress on the drivetrain. Coils in the pump are the weak spot of Haldex system and they are the first to go.

If there isn't much price difference I'd go for the orange. If you don't want to this "dangerous :lol: " 4wd engine braking to happen press clutch before you lift off...

Why they warn about it is probably because with engine braking the weight transfers to front (just like in normal braking) so there is less grip in the back. Now if engine braking is split 50:50 it means rears will lock before fronts, effect is same as pulling hand brake. But as said earlier it needs to be pretty slippery to lock your brakes in a straight line with engine braking and when it is that slippery just use that clutch pedal.

Sudden lift off mid corner is never a good idea (unless you want to throw that tail out) but with orange it could lock your rear with even faster tail action :evil:


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks Steve and Nate! This was very helpful. I'm going orange! Now to send back the blue and order the orange.


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

nate42 said:


> If you don't want to this "dangerous :lol: " 4wd engine braking to happen press clutch before you lift off...


Ha . . . you tease me Nate. :lol: I don't mean to seem like such a weenie  . . . just didn't want to mess my car up for daily driving.

So . . .I've done it. Ordered the Silver Competition controller (aka orange). HPA Motorsports is overnighting it by UPS to me. I'll take it into the shop tomorrow. They seemed like nice people and they spent time answering all my questions.

Thanks again for your help!


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## Mondo (Feb 20, 2009)

Weenie. Wuss, blouse, nonce, skirt, chicken s#it... er... nope, can't think of any more. 

He says boldly, only having the Blue version. 

Get it fitted. Must be about the only mod you've yet to do.


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

Mondo said:


> Weenie. Wuss, blouse, nonce, skirt, chicken s#it... er... nope, can't think of any more.
> 
> He says boldly, only having the Blue version.
> 
> Get it fitted. Must be about the only mod you've yet to do.


Ha! Thanks Mondo!!


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

Ok so so far from what i have read on the orange haldex...... it has exactly the same characteristics as the blue....... but it keeps the rear engaged for longer. The haldex operation is controlled by revs and speed......all forms of haldex are. All the orange haldex is doing is hauling the speed down when braking by operating for longer! My thought is if you have a set of de 6 pots behind your wheels why bother with orange? And it will inevitably put extra strain on the rear drivetrain for sure. I'm not doubting its slight superior track benefit.

I have decided to go blue..........  .

Damien.


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

TTSPORT666 said:


> Ok so so far from what i have read on the orange haldex...... it has exactly the same characteristics as the blue....... but it keeps the rear engaged for longer. The haldex operation is controlled by revs and speed......all forms of haldex are. All the orange haldex is doing is hauling the speed down when braking by operating for longer! My thought is if you have a set of de 6 pots behind your wheels why bother with orange? And it will inevitably put extra strain on the rear drivetrain for sure. I'm not doubting its slight superior track benefit.
> 
> I have decided to go blue..........  .
> 
> Damien.


Go for it Damien. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] My choice was in the balance too . .. but the last time 2 times I chose to go slightly less than the extreme, I regretted it. For one of those choices, I had them pull everything out and do it again (x-drilled vs slotted) . . . and for the other choice, I've not gone back yet, but I will (aluminum single mass fly-wheel vs steel single mass). So, I've vowed to make the more outlying choice in the future. This is one of those junctures. So, trying to make a choice on principle. Let's consider it an experiment and compare as time goes on, what do you say?


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

Good idea..... we can concur and compare our findings and feed them back to the whole world...... 

Jesting aside i wish someone magazine related....would test back to back how all the haldex's behave in certain conditions!!

Damien.


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

I love my blue!!


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

L33JSA said:


> I love my blue!!


Blue is good! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

Pink is better.....but thats another story....


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

Drove my TT home this evening with the new HPA Motorsports Haldex Gen 1 Competition controller. Even though I was in stock mode (new ECU that I'll reprogram tomorrow for the stage 3+), the car felt like it was more aggressive . . . I was even wondering initially if the dealership had returned the TT to me in stage 3+ . . . but I confirmed it was stock mode. And, in getting into my garage . . . but with changes to it that made it a whole new parking experience . . . I felt none of the reported binding. HPA said they had corrected this, and apparently they have. I'll have to really challenge it next week . . . in stage 3+ mode and really put it through some parking paces to see. But so far, I like it and it's not presenting any problems (knock on wood)!


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

Hi Vrroom

Excellent stuff. Really interested about the fact HPA say they have sorted the binding issue at slow parking speeds. Really looking forward to your reports.  
Bet its nice to have your baby back? 
Damien.


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

I can highly recommend it. I got one so I can evenly apply equal amount of torque to all wheels as have got bags of it.

Certainly feel the benefits of the rear wheel power on corners, pushes the backend out.


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

TTSPORT666 said:


> Hi Vrroom
> 
> Excellent stuff. Really interested about the fact HPA say they have sorted the binding issue at slow parking speeds. Really looking forward to your reports.
> Bet its nice to have your baby back?
> Damien.


Yes, Damien, I am soooo happy to have her back.



frakay100 said:


> I can highly recommend it. I got one so I can evenly apply equal amount of torque to all wheels as have got bags of it.
> 
> Certainly feel the benefits of the rear wheel power on corners, pushes the backend out.


Frakay . . . I do not think I am imagining it . . . I definitely felt like I was being pushed into the curves. Felt great!!


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

Its a great bit of kit. You aren't imagining it it does give you are very controlled push through the curves and although my car has all the bushes uprated also the car is so stable which I definitely think because power is not shifted about, put your foot down and all four wheels get the power. 8)


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

frakay100 said:


> Its a great bit of kit. You aren't imagining it it does give you are very controlled push through the curves and although my car has all the bushes uprated also the car is so stable which I definitely think because power is not shifted about, put your foot down and all four wheels get the power. 8)


Okay . . . I'm thinking next I have to get my front and rear anti-sway bars upgraded. I'm myself surprised I haven't done that yet. They're still stock! :roll:


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## turbo87 (Aug 3, 2009)

This will be my next mod as I really want more of a four wheel/ rear wheel setup.


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## T3RBO (Dec 9, 2003)

Glad your pleased with it mate, and making others take notice now


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## FlaunTT (Mar 3, 2009)

Hi guys and girls,

I'm in Australia and have had a blue controller in my MK1 TT And swapped it over to a silver race controller from HPA about 8 months ago. I track my TT a bit and it is definitely a better car in the turns and seams to be able to get a bit more down to the ground compared to the blue controller. My car does do binding at low speed , say when you do a tight turn the back wheels stick and the car starts to skip, With revs you can control this. A minor thing to deal with in the grand scheme of things, as it is alot better at the track where it counts!

Cheers Adrian


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

. . . as reported in "Today I . . . ", I put the new Haldex controller through its parking lot paces. I thought I noticed binding at 2 instances . . . then I tried to deliberately get it to repeat and couldn't. I then cork-screwed through the entire parking lot in 1st gear, at idle revs, clutch fully engaged, cutting the wheels tightly left then right, and never a single bind. As I was doing all my parking maneuvers, it occurred to me that I typically never, ever let the clutch be fully engaged when I'm actually parking in close quarters. I let the clutch sort of tap the engine intermittently, just enough to keep goosing the car forward. Because of this, I don't know that I'd ever typically notice binding from a controller that kept the wheels in 4-wheel drive. So, when I tested it today, I deliberately kept the clutch engaged (but there were no obstacles nearby). So . . . unless I'm really missing something, I can't say there is the binding . . . maybe HPA did actually do something with the more recent versions? As I said, HPA acted like it should be no problem. If there is binding, it's slight and wasn't a bother to me. If I ever experience it in a way I can repeat it, I'll report back. For now, I'm happy having my backside pushed through curves. Makes the TT seem more powerful.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

This sounds *very* interesting now get out there push it and report back (please) :lol:


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

V6 Steve did you ever get anywhere about mapping out ESP/traction on stock ECU? Any idea if its possible for us 1.8/20 boys?


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Bikerz said:


> V6 Steve did you ever get anywhere about mapping out ESP/traction on stock ECU? Any idea if its possible for us 1.8/20 boys?


Not done it to mine yet as I need to trial the TT first to see if it's going to be of a benefit or hindrance.
1.8/2.0 should be able to do it as long as the software version in the ABS module is compliant.
Different software versions will have to investigate their own solution for themselves as this is a change for the V6 foremost.
Steve


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

Great stuff Vrroom,

So far so good eh. Your converting me from blue...  

Keep up the good work, and testing for us. Sounds fantastic with more rear power transfer! such a short chassis our cars, so you must really feel the difference. Counting down the days now to my ARB's and defcon fitting day!! 

Damien.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

I'm getting more interested esp if HPA have revised the software
Steve


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

V6RUL said:


> I'm getting more interested esp if HPA have revised the software
> Steve


Hi all. I need to make my reporting more exact. I said, "HPA said they had corrected this." I should have been more exact in my statement because I actually made that assumption from what they said. Here is what actually was said.
My question was: "People report binding at slow speeds in tight turns."
HPA answered: "This is not a problem. The unit is designed to take advantage of Audi's free-wheeling characteristics at slow speeds." Those were his words according to my notes. I simply made the assumption that if it had been reported reliably that it was a problem in the past, then logically they must have corrected something for it not to be a problem now. But that's sloppy reporting on my part.

So, to make amends, I called back today to get it as factually straight as possible. Here goes:
The Haldex Competition controller is designed to have the back wheels fully "hard" engaged under torque and also regardless of whether or not there is braking. But, there is a mechanical valve that relieves some of the pressure engaging the back wheels when you are idling . . . not all, but some - it's NEVER actually fully disengaged. In a perfectly operating, cleanly maintained Haldex, this allows enough freewheeling to prevent binding at slow speeds in tight turns.

There should never be any of the shuddering or binding that gets reported. This would indicate that it was either not installed correctly, the Haldex fluid is dirty, a piece of debris or dirt has blocked the relief valve from working, the filter screen is blocked or clogged . . . in general, the Haldex has not been maintained properly. Of course, it could also mean it is a defective unit. The valve relieves the pressure that maintains the rear wheel engagement. When torque is released, it allows some freewheeling . . . but if the valve can't release the pressure (it's blocked or not operating for some reason), then the backend remains locked when idling and you get binding at slow speeds in tight turns. In perfect operation, there should be no binding. In less than perfect operation, at worst there could be a catch here or there, but nothing to affect the driving of the car.

If you come in hot from the highway and swing into a parking spot (like I did when I thought I felt a couple of small "pops") . .. then you haven't given the valve relief of the torque enought to relieve the pressure and you may experience some catching (the valve and release of pressure happen very quickly, but not instantaneously). So that explains what I experienced . . . when I came into my office parking lot, I had just swung off the highway and into my parking spot. I thought I felt a couple of catches. But, when I tried to get it to repeat the symptom, I couldn't get it to do it . . . not at all. That was because the pressure was relieved at that point (having idled for a moment) and I could corkscrew around the parking lot all I wanted to and it wouldn't bind.
Other points:
-	The silver competition unit is the same as the orange unit. Same software, same internals and externals. This is a Haldex manufactured controller with Haldex software meant for racing applications. HPA Motorsports has made no changes to it. However, HPA Motorsports helped Haldex test and develop it and so they have been granted exclusive sales rights to the silver competition line.
-	The person I spoke to is named Keir and he's happy to talk to anybody about this. They are in BC Canada and their number is: 604-598-8520. His extension is 103.
-	I asked about group buys. He'd be happy to talk to anybody who's interested about a group buy also.

Please know that I am not promoting this item. I'm very happy with it for myself and it seems to be working perfectly according to design, but I would want everyone to make their own decision on this and do their own due diligence and research. And according to HPA it also depends on the state of the existing set up as well. So I would not want anyone to buy this based only on what I'm saying. For the same reason, I would not arrange a group buy of this item, but if someone else wanted to, Keir at HPA would be happy to speak to you.
I hope this helps everyone! I've enjoyed the challenge of looking into this . . . and I love the results for myself! (And sorry for the long-winded post, but I wanted to get this right!)


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

Vrroom that is a fantastic write up. At last a real explanation into the rear binding situation with the orange haldex!! This should be a sticky!! 

This has definitely made me rested in my mind to which one to choose.  Cannot thank you enough for your brilliant report. 

Damien.


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks Damien for the kind words! And I have to say, I'm really enjoying the modification!! I really appreciate the forum turning me on to it!

cheers


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

TTSPORT666 said:


> This has definitely made me rested in my mind to which one to choose.  Cannot thank you enough for your brilliant report.


+1 great write up and report mate


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## T3RBO (Dec 9, 2003)

I am more convinced each time I read one of your informative write ups... excellent mate 

Want one now :roll:


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

jamman said:


> +1 great write up and report mate





T3RBO said:


> I am more convinced each time I read one of your informative write ups... excellent mate
> 
> Want one now :roll:


Thanks Jamman! Thanks T3RBO! Glad to be contributing back something for all I've gotten from the forum.


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## UR_TT (Nov 8, 2008)

Have you searched for haldex resellers i GB?

http://www.borgwarner.com/en/Haldex-AWD ... fault.aspx

I sent BorgWarner and line and got hold of the distributor for me in Sweden, no need to muck about with long delivery times from Canada. Haldex competetion is avalible from any reseller. Just a tought.

I´m getting one as soon as funds are right!

//U


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

UR_TT said:


> Have you searched for haldex resellers i GB?
> 
> http://www.borgwarner.com/en/Haldex-AWD ... fault.aspx
> 
> ...


That's good to know UR_TT. It's likely HPA's exclusivity is limited geographically. HPA got it to me overnight (of course I paid for that) so I could get it slipped into my car while it was already in the shop for something else . . . plus, HPA was extremely helpful . . . at least 30 minutes on the phone each of the two times I called. Not certain what customs delays there could be elsewhere. HPA's price was also same as the price for the blue controller that I'd already bought from Neuspeed (and of course returned at a 10% restocking fee). And note that I'm in the states.


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## UR_TT (Nov 8, 2008)

Vrroom said:


> And note that I'm in the states.


Of course, missed that. For you it makes perfect sence, I didn´t want to pay the 15% extra in fees for getting into Sweden thats why i looked it up and probably makes for a better deal for all GB citizens. 8)


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## [email protected] (Aug 11, 2011)

Competition controllers world wide are exclusive to us.

If you see the competition logo on it, its because we engraved it 

We do sell them to dealers world wide.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Competition controllers world wide are exclusive to us.
> 
> If you see the competition logo on it, its because we engraved it
> 
> We do sell them to dealers world wide.


How about putting a deal together to sell them to this forums members at a special discount price ? (please) :-*


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## AmpTThill (Sep 18, 2011)

jamman said:


> [email protected] said:
> 
> 
> > Competition controllers world wide are exclusive to us.
> ...


+1 I'm in


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## paul4281 (Jan 25, 2010)

Is anyone running one of these in uk?

Sent from paul4281's iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

paul4281 said:


> Is anyone running one of these in uk?
> 
> Sent from paul4281's iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes Frase is (E3YOB) did you not read the thread :?


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Come on, don't make it too easy..lets hear a good sales pitch first..and then queue up to depart with £500.. :roll: 
Steve


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

jamman said:


> paul4281 said:
> 
> 
> > Is anyone running one of these in uk?
> ...


Yes I have one. It is bloody awesome. One of the best things I did to the car!


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

But remember Frase it doesn't suit Stevie's driving style :lol: :lol:


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

Yes Steve phoned HPA and asked for their most mundane upgrade.

They sent him a special brown controller and a Simon and Garfunkel single.

The brown controller just turns one rear wheel and plays Old Friends in a loop.






[smiley=dude.gif]


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## MrHooky (Oct 27, 2009)

Just read this entire thread to get my head around stock/blue/orange...

Is my understanding correct:

Standing start warm day floor it:

Standard - will sense you want to make quick getaway, prior to front wheels scrabbling for grip, will send power to the back within a good time, but could be quicker...
Blue - as above, although sensor means the power sent to the back earlier - potentially quicker to 60 say due to more grip and car sending power to rear faster?
Orange - 50/50 from the off so no power ever shifted about. Perfect acceleration with no delay as power has always been at the rear?

In corners with power applied front end starting to lose grip:

Standard - Sends power to the rear to try and give more grip. With standard It's probably too little too late and I dare say all you feel is understeer. I can honestly say other than in the snow I've never had the backend of my TT out.
Blue - as above but potential for more power to be sent to the back quicker so could result in less understeer if the power is sent to the rear in time? Potential to oversteer at all? Should be better cornering ability with less power to the front wheels. 
Orange - minimal understeer as rear wheels always 50% driven. Power slides galore?

Apologies if the above sounds a bit noddy, just trying to understand it as best I can!

Also, how does the Standard/Blue/Orange haldex compare to the system in the B7 RS4. I know this is a car that you can powerslide (albeit not as well as an M3), presumably due to the fact it has a more rearward biased system?


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

The only issue I have with the orange is that if I want to brake mid corner, will I have issues.

The SQS maybe a viable option for peeps that want 50/50 every now and then.
Steve


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## techfreak (Aug 13, 2010)

I'd be interested in a group buy too, but please delay it for abit I've got too many other things to buy ffs (anyone know how to set a bar to limit the amount of time I can access the forum!?)


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Get a wife.. :lol: 
Steve


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## techfreak (Aug 13, 2010)

V6RUL said:


> Get a wife.. :lol:
> Steve


Got it, and the recent addition of a little bambino...it has limited my time on here drastically ...but even then a short spell on here once a week is enough to lighten the wallet by a lot of ££££ :lol:


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## rustymania (May 21, 2011)

+1 on a buy


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## SmOkiNjOe (Jan 15, 2012)

V6RUL said:


> The only issue I have with the orange is that if I want to brake mid corner, will I have issues.
> 
> The SQS maybe a viable option for peeps that want 50/50 every now and then.
> Steve


I think what the danger would be is someone fitting an orange with not much real driving ability. A TT is quite light, with quite a bit of power. Audi have added plenty of driver aids to help a novice when he brakes too heavily, accelerates too harshly, or brake and change down a gear mid-corner.

I'm an ex-biker, all I can compare the danger of an orange controller to is like on a superbike, when you drop down the gears when braking hard. If you didn't rev the engine as you changed down, you would lock the back wheel. On a straight line your back wheel would skip, but on a bend you would be off if not careful.

Adding the orange controller gives you more control of the power and how you want the car to corner, but in the wrong hands could prove lethal.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

But the question is..
Is the HPA performance controller a more refined/safer version of the Orange type.
I still may consider the SQS manual haldex controller and keep it at 50% for street and 100% active for the strip, which, when at 100% gives a permanent 50/50 power split.
Steve


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## [email protected] (Aug 11, 2011)

This makes it as dangerous as any Audi with real quattro. You know A4, A6, A8 etc, any rear wheel drive car does not disengage the rear wheels under braking or throttle lift. Its not going to mystically spin you into a wall, and if it does the problem existed between the steering wheel and the seat. :lol: Should you adjust driving it until you get used to what it does ? absolutely! Will you love what it does? absolutely!

Competition = Orange. We dont powdercoat them anymore, we engrave them, Looks better. Competition units are uprated on a software AND hardware level. Its beefier inside meaning it will take more abuse. its the Competition controller after all.

Blue and Orange are very similar except the blue is a stock controller with different software, internally its the same, power wise it will give you close to 50/50 power but will always disengage under braking, and throttle lift.

NOW onto the fun stuff a Group Buy.

If someone wants to organize it, I'll give them a great deal on their personal one, it would make more sense for 1 person to take all the orders and money and us ship them all together to save shipping and we'll see what we can do to help out with not incurring too much in terms of Tax/Duty/VAT. I know its a bit of work for someone but it'll get you one for a great deal for your efforts.

Anyone willing to do this, please email me : [email protected] if your interested in doing it or just want in on the GB please let me know.


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## Rich196 (Mar 31, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> This makes it as dangerous as any Audi with real quattro. You know A4, A6, A8 etc, any rear wheel drive car does not disengage the rear wheels under braking or throttle lift. Its not going to mystically spin you into a wall, and if it does the problem existed between the steering wheel and the seat. :lol: Should you adjust driving it until you get used to what it does ? absolutely! Will you love what it does? absolutely!
> 
> Competition = Orange. We dont powdercoat them anymore, we engrave them, Looks better. Competition units are uprated on a software AND hardware level. Its beefier inside meaning it will take more abuse. its the Competition controller after all.
> 
> ...


Already organised it for you! Doesn't seem to be the uptake we 1st hope for tho


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## CrAkHaBiTT (Jan 18, 2005)




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## T3RBO (Dec 9, 2003)

Perhaps now there will be renewed interest in the GB

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=250299

(I would love one but can't afford it right now  )


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## SmOkiNjOe (Jan 15, 2012)

My 3.2 V6 2005 roadster is unmodified.... If I fit a competition haldex, do you think it is worth doing? Comments please.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

SmOkiNjOe said:


> My 3.2 V6 2005 roadster is unmodified.... If I fit a competition haldex, do you think it is worth doing? Comments please.


Coil overs and rear ARB would be a good compliment as the extra rear drive may be absorbed by the soft suspension.
Steve


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> This makes it as dangerous as any Audi with real quattro. You know A4, A6, A8 etc, any rear wheel drive car does not disengage the rear wheels under braking or throttle lift. Its not going to mystically spin you into a wall, and if it does the problem existed between the steering wheel and the seat. :lol: Should you adjust driving it until you get used to what it does ? absolutely! Will you love what it does? absolutely!
> 
> Competition = Orange. We dont powdercoat them anymore, we engrave them, Looks better. Competition units are uprated on a software AND hardware level. Its beefier inside meaning it will take more abuse. its the Competition controller after all.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the write up. I think people are still a tad confused on the subject, on which one to go for? I have spent my life driving torsion quattro drive trains, and feel my standard hadex on my QS a bit of a joke in comparison. There is a a pause on the limit with the standard haldex, when loosing front grip. Before it works out what the hell to do!! really annoys me! 
The point you made about the similarities between the competition haldex and the original torsion quattro is a very valid one.
Have you cured the binding at slow speeds with the competition haldex? or is it a case of clicking the hadbrake up a notch and engaging the clutch to disengage?
Many thanks
Damien.


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

SmOkiNjOe said:


> V6RUL said:
> 
> 
> > The only issue I have with the orange is that if I want to brake mid corner, will I have issues.
> ...


Hang on a bit, i have driven torsion quattro's for a long time now. And the split is much the same as the HPA sport haldex, and i never flung myself off the road? its not dangerous?
Just the standard haldex, which i am certainly not a fan of, is a dummy quattro in my eyes....? I've owned ur quattro's and they were awesome in the snow! So i don't think for a minute the orange haldex is "lethal". :? 
Damien.


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## neilc (Aug 8, 2011)

My QS has had a Blue Haldex fitted today and I collect her next week after a couple of other mods so will report back then. Looking forward to it.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Ive decided my car will be that little bit more orange soon(ish) :wink:


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## neilc (Aug 8, 2011)

jamman said:


> Ive decided my car will be that little bit more orange soon(ish) :wink:


Your taking this track day a bit serious aren't you James , getting an Orange Haldex. Next it will be some Toyo R888 semi slicks :lol:


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Neil if you knew how I drive (like my gran) and my general attitude you would know that couldn't be further from the truth matey if I was looking at a track car I wouldn't have chosen a heavy soft top I'd have stripped out a coupe.

I just like what I'm hearing about the Haldex upgrades.

Also fed up with the winter wheels so time for some bling sell me your 19" BBS CHs someone (please)


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## neilc (Aug 8, 2011)

jamman said:


> Neil if you knew how I drive (like my gran) and my general attitude you would know that couldn't be further from the truth matey if I was looking at a track car I wouldn't have chosen a heavy soft top I'd have stripped out a coupe.
> 
> I just like what I'm hearing about the Haldex upgrades.
> 
> Also fed up with the winter wheels so time for some bling sell me your 19" BBS CHs someone (please)


Only kidding james. Oh and by the way your Gran blew me away on the A47 the other day. Pesky Micra's. :?


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

:wink: :lol: :lol:


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

Had a really informative email from HPA , really helpful customer care etc.

They did put to rest a lot of my fears on their sport haldex. They are many misconceptions about the traits of the unit! Basically it behaves like a torsion, similar power split delivery. And to be honest that is what i'm used to. All this banter about the unit being lethal has to be put to rest, its not!! With the binding issues, you just have to exercise some caution, its no biggie!!

Here is their reply to my email.

Damien,

Thank you for your interest in our Haldex Controller:
(My question) 
I have heard a lot of reports on binding with uprated haldex units etc. Has your unit been designed not to bind at slower speeds?
(Answer) 
Our system was designed to be as bind-free as possible. As someone on the forum mentioned, if you come in really hot off something and try and turn in a really sharp entry, it could bind as the pressure will not have been relieved from the Haldex system ( clutches ). As long as it has had a moment to relieve this pressure there should be no binding issues. It's this effect of not releasing the clutch is what makes the competition system what it is. With the 'blue' controller or the stock unit, as soon as the throttle is lifted ( torque is un-applied ) the rear end is disengaged. This makes it impossible to bind, but also gives the ill-affects you have described.

(My question) 
And also having to use my car in all weather, would I loose traction easier in the snow and ice with an uprated unit. And how noticeable would it be to stock setup? 
(Answer) 
It will be more RWD Biased. That said the Quattro you had was truly RWD biased, so it wouldn't react much differently than that setup. Braking and deceleration using the transmission should be done carefully while you adjust to how the car rotates through a corner in adverse conditions. It by no means makes it unstable, unusable or any less safe in the snow. How noticeable it is, can be completely dependent on how you drive.

If you have any questions please send them my way and I'll be more than happy to answer them.

** Nice TT!

Im quite happy with that. 

Damien


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

Glad you found good info Damien and glad HPA was so responsive. They certainly helped me. I've had my HPA competition (orange) Haldex for a while now and I've had absolutely no problem and very much enjoy the difference. Although I don't have very refined or experienced driving sensitivities, I do know what I like . .. and I can sense the subtlety of a sledgehammer. Recall when I got my ECU replaced I also had the HPA Competition Haldex installed. When driving it home from picking it up, I thought for once that the dealership reprogrammed the mapping to the stage 3+ 95 octane, rather than leaving it in stock for me to reset . . . but when I tested the turbo, I only got 16 psi -- which is the stock mapping. So why was the car driving like it had been tuned but the ECU was in stock mode? Apparently because of the Haldex . . . it made stock mode feel tuned to me. So, I couldn't be happier. I appreciate you all guiding me into 1. even knowing about this upgrade . . . and 2. encouraging me to do it. Thanks!!


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

Ahh good to hear your still happy Vroom..... the proof is in the pudding as they say! :wink:

Will be ordering mine in the next few months for sure. I'm kind of glad i took my time on this decision.... and was waiting for you to confirm how good it is! To be honest im used to a torsion diff set up anyhow so i don't think i am going to get any surprises!! Its fantastic really how we can tailor out TT's in this way!! 
I have to say i am very impressed with the customer care side of HPA. 

Damien.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Can't praise this company enough on the customer service side of things you ask a question it gets answered within 24 hours sooner if they are there (Canada)

After speaking to them I decided to take the plunge and order the competition controller, payment made and less than an hour later I recieve a confirmation invoice with a tracking number, bullshit I think there is no way they have shipped that fast... 20 minutes after that I get an email from UPS confirming it.

Stunning service.

Sat under the post box fully expecting it to arrive in the next 5 minutes :lol:


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## neilc (Aug 8, 2011)

jamman said:


> Can't praise this company enough on the customer service side of things you ask a question it gets answered within 24 hours sooner if they are there (Canada)
> 
> After speaking to them I decided to take the plunge and order the competition controller, payment made and less than an hour later I recieve a confirmation invoice with a tracking number, bullshit I think there is no way they have shipped that fast... 20 minutes after that I get an email from UPS confirming it.
> 
> ...


Well done James. Look forward to comparing haldex's then


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## SmOkiNjOe (Jan 15, 2012)

I'm seriously considering the competition controller for my V6... I've always preferred a rear bias car, just what I was brought up on I suppose. My last car was a Vauxhall Omega Elite, a 2.5 V6, it had rear wheel drive with traction control, and I loved it. I'm hoping the competition controller will give me that rear bias feeling again, but should be even better with a neutral bias.

Looking forward to hearing your comments James, once you have it fitted and tested. 8)


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

Nice one James 

Just think this is such a fantastic mod for our cars! cannot wait to get mine now.

Damien.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

TTSPORT666 said:


> Nice one James
> 
> Just think this is such a fantastic mod for our cars! cannot wait to get mine now.
> 
> Damien.


Hope so Damien my toys will come out the cot big time if it isn't after what I've read and been told :lol: :lol:


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

jamman said:


> TTSPORT666 said:
> 
> 
> > Nice one James
> ...


LOL.... :lol: I know what you mean James its alot of money and its got to work!! 

It is dependant on how you drive your car though, this mod if for people who explore a chassis's full potential. Who understand how the car's chassis reacts under pressure! For me the normal TT haldex holds the car back? It does not react fast enough. By the time its made its mind up to give more power to the rear..... the moments passed!!  I really believe this is one of the best mods you can do to a TTmk1, if you love driving. 

Damien.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

jamman said:


> Can't praise this company enough on the customer service side of things you ask a question it gets answered within 24 hours sooner if they are there (Canada)
> 
> After speaking to them I decided to take the plunge and order the competition controller, payment made and less than an hour later I recieve a confirmation invoice with a tracking number, bullshit I think there is no way they have shipped that fast... 20 minutes after that I get an email from UPS confirming it.
> 
> ...


Already in the UK only ordered it yesterday evening


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## Tritium (Apr 25, 2011)

jamman said:


> Already in the UK only ordered it yesterday evening


Im beginning to hate you! - The only justification I had NOT to buy, was it would take forever and therefore my frivolous side would be disappointed by the lonnnng wait. You just might have cost me buddy! :lol:

Joking aside that service is phenomenal.


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## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

jamman said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > Can't praise this company enough on the customer service side of things you ask a question it gets answered within 24 hours sooner if they are there (Canada)
> ...


Bloody hell that is better service than most UK based companies could offer 

Charlie


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## neilc (Aug 8, 2011)

TTSPORT666 said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > TTSPORT666 said:
> ...


I will find out on Saturday morning


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

jamman said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > Can't praise this company enough on the customer service side of things you ask a question it gets answered within 24 hours sooner if they are there (Canada)
> ...


Excellent service, i must say. They must be really quiet at the mo, to get that level of service, surprised HPA havn't been on for a while as its a good product for the right peeps..  
Steve


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

neilc said:


> I will find out on Saturday morning


If I was a snob I would claim that the "Competition" is a step up from the "Blue" but since I'm not and we are mates I wont :wink: :-*

I will just think it


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

_"James,

Thank you for your interest in our Haldex controllers. You are correct that the competition controller is what you want for your Audi TT with that much power. I would own the competition controller even if my car was stock. The way that it changes the car is very hard to describe in words as everyone has a different take on it. For some it feels like your getting pushed around the corner instead of being dragged around it, others just describe it as more lively. For me it changes the way the car enters and exits the corner as its never needs to disengage and reengage the driveline, you can come in hotter, get on it quicker and feel like you nailed a corner.

The increase in traction is also felt as its more evenly distributing power throughout your wheels.

Kind Regards,

Keir Parsons"_


----------



## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

jamman said:


> _"James,
> 
> Thank you for your interest in our Haldex controllers. You are correct that the competition controller is what you want for your Audi TT with that much power. I would own the competition controller even if my car was stock. The way that it changes the car is very hard to describe in words as everyone has a different take on it. For some it feels like your getting pushed around the corner instead of being dragged around it, others just describe it as more lively. For me it changes the way the car enters and exits the corner as its never needs to disengage and reengage the driveline, you can come in hotter, get on it quicker and feel like you nailed a corner.
> 
> ...


Than you for that, James. Interesting.

Joe


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

Think Keir royally hits the nail on the head there. Don't worry Neil.... there is not an awful lot of difference....cough cough... :wink:

Damien.


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## neilc (Aug 8, 2011)

I am really looking forward to the difference that the blue will make in combo with the Yoko AD08's. If its all that Dave raved about then it should be good. Give it a proper test in March at Snetterton.

And james , no offence taken. [smiley=rifle.gif] :wink:


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

neilc said:


> I am really looking forward to the difference that the blue will make in combo with the Yoko AD08's. If its all that Dave raved about then it should be good. Give it a proper test in March at Snetterton.
> 
> And james , no offence taken. [smiley=rifle.gif] :wink:


Damm must try harder Neil

As a side note The TTS advised me against the competition controller but then again they have never dealt with HPA :wink: )


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

Glad you've gone all orange James! Hope you find it to be everything you want it to be. Mine's been in 35 days now and I still love it. It definitely feels like I'm pushed into and out of corners. Binding when parking? I'd say every so often, I somehow create a combination of circumstances (clutch fully engaged, coming off road hot and rushed, etc.) that yeah, I feel that little soft pop you feel when you're driving a real 4-wheel drive in a tight spot, just simply the tires being forced across the surface because of the radius differential. But . . . it seems like nothing to complain about at all . . . just something you experience every so often. But I park several times a day, parallel and slot, and it's not an issue. So for 35 days, I've felt it maybe a half dozen times. And it's not like it makes your car jump ahead or anything, just a small bump (soft pop) . . . something like that. I sense the rubber of the tire momentarily jumped forward on the surface a half inch or something.

Driveability? I love it! As I said before, coming home after the install, I thought the car was in stage 3+ mode . . . but it was still in stock but with the competition controller. I'm pleased and no problems so far. No regrets!!


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

> "For some it feels like your getting pushed around the corner "


That is exactly how it feels


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

E3 YOB said:


> > "For some it feels like your getting pushed around the corner "
> 
> 
> That is exactly how it feels


+1


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

I am not really an advocate of this mod but i feel imust have it, to allow 4 wheel balanced traction..we will see
Steve


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## Super Josh (May 29, 2009)

V6RUL said:


> I am not really an advocate of this mod but i feel imust have it, to allow 4 wheel balanced traction..we will see
> Steve


Why don't you like it Steve?

I would imagine that your car would be undriveable without one

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S2 using Tapatalk


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Super Josh said:


> V6RUL said:
> 
> 
> > I am not really an advocate of this mod but i feel imust have it, to allow 4 wheel balanced traction..we will see
> ...


I thought the blue would be enough to keep the mota happy, but the more i think about it, to have torque shared across the four wheels as soon as poss is going to be a bigger/better benefit than the power distribution being shifted around as and when its needed. 
My primary concerns were due to the binding issue..which is there, but tweaking my driving style to dial it out is no biggie,
the other issue was due to rear engagement under braking especially whilst mid bend under braking, again i will have to modify my driving style. I tend to dab brakes mid corner as my entry speed is usually too fast, so i need to correct this.

Once fitted and out and about i will submit my opinion on the unit, in a constructive manor.
Steve


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

V6RUL said:


> I thought the blue would be enough to keep the mota happy, but the more i think about it, to have torque shared across the four wheels as soon as poss is going to be a bigger/better benefit than the power distribution being shifted around as and when its needed.
> My primary concerns were due to the binding issue..which is there, but tweaking my driving style to dial it out is no biggie,
> the other issue was due to rear engagement under braking especially whilst mid bend under braking, again i will have to modify my driving style. I tend to dab brakes mid corner as my entry speed is usually too fast, so i need to correct this.
> 
> ...


When Steve has fitted and driven he will say

"James you were right thank you for cajoling me into buying this upgrade it's transformed the car you are a god among mere mortals" (or words to that effect :lol: :lol:


----------



## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

jamman said:


> V6RUL said:
> 
> 
> > I thought the blue would be enough to keep the mota happy, but the more i think about it, to have torque shared across the four wheels as soon as poss is going to be a bigger/better benefit than the power distribution being shifted around as and when its needed.
> ...


We will see if you are worthy of being a dog among mere mortals..or words to that effect.. :lol: 
As long as Frase doesn't think im copying.
Steve


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

V6RUL said:


> We will see if you are worthy of being a dog among mere mortals..or words to that effect.. :lol:
> 
> Steve


 :lol:


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## MrHooky (Oct 27, 2009)

V6RUL said:


> the other issue was due to rear engagement under braking especially whilst mid bend under braking, again i will have to modify my driving style. I tend to dab brakes mid corner as my entry speed is usually too fast, so i need to correct this.


How is the rear "being engaged" while braking any different to a normal rear wheel drive car?

Can I ask a really simple question: Will orange (or blue) make my car accelerate away from a standstill quicker? Mine is a DSG and whilst quick i'm not sure if the slight hesitation when I floor it is due to power being sent rearwards or whether it's the DSG doing its thing...


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

MrHooky said:


> V6RUL said:
> 
> 
> > the other issue was due to rear engagement under braking especially whilst mid bend under braking, again i will have to modify my driving style. I tend to dab brakes mid corner as my entry speed is usually too fast, so i need to correct this.
> ...


The Quattro on the TT is mechanical controlled by electronics, there is always going to be a certain amount of gap before it hooks up. I have the competition controller and DSG map to try and dial this gap out. It is still there but it has shortened and you can also creep, to know its on point. As for accel..with the comp controller, i would say it has a better chance ov launch compared to OEM or blue, which is what im after. I will be assessing this particular feature/benefit in the near future and i will do a little write up.
Steve


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

V6RUL said:


> I will be assessing this particular feature/benefit in the near future and i will do a little write up.
> Steve


I'll look forward to your assessment Steve! I am still loving the effect of the comp Haldex. I did notice my first "whoa, got to be careful and watch what I'm doing" experience." Went into an exit/entrance ramp from one road to another . . . multiple curves that started with a hard turn -- car nearly ripped out of my hands (steering wheel nearly ripped out of my hands . . . car actually did some move that seemed like I wasn't driving it). Okay. So, now I know I can lose control of the car . . . but boy, what a rush!!!!!


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## Tritium (Apr 25, 2011)

Vrroom said:


> So, now I know I can lose control of the car . . . but boy, what a rush!!!!!


Getting mine fitted next Tuesday so now you've got me all, er, wet knic*** like. (not really!)

Brian


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## MrHooky (Oct 27, 2009)

Can I ask how much this upgrade costs? Hardware and fitting? Presumably doesn't take too long labour-wise? Might look into having this done when car next goes in for a service & new brakes.

Only thing is, i've been quoted a new Miltek non-res catback fitted for £500 which I dare say is going to be cheaper than this upgrade. Might just need to do both! Decisions decisions...


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

Vrroom said:


> V6RUL said:
> 
> 
> > I will be assessing this particular feature/benefit in the near future and i will do a little write up.
> ...


Tim did you feel the back end go a little?  (not your back end "the cars") :lol:

Damien.


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## Rich196 (Mar 31, 2011)

MrHooky said:


> Can I ask how much this upgrade costs? Hardware and fitting? Presumably doesn't take too long labour-wise? Might look into having this done when car next goes in for a service & new brakes.
> 
> Only thing is, i've been quoted a new Miltek non-res catback fitted for £500 which I dare say is going to be cheaper than this upgrade. Might just need to do both! Decisions decisions...


Looking at £50 fitting ish, and around £650 plus import duty


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

TTSPORT666 said:


> Vrroom said:
> 
> 
> > V6RUL said:
> ...


Damien . . . I think my back end do go a little!  But yeah . . . the car's back end seemed to go out a bit. I accelerated coming into the curve to the right, clutch engaged, hit my brakes, and accelerated again when I thought I could . . . and my back end seemed to jump to the left (going to the outside), and the steering wheel jerked (but not free). I'm NOT an experienced driver, and I'm not particularly nuanced regarding senses . . . but I've driven sports cars a long time . .. and that's the way it felt to me (unprofessionally articulated of course). But damn . . . it actually felt great!


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

Must have felt pretty alien in the TT Tim  True you will have to get used to the new characteristics of the car. Im really intrigued how the car will behave on the limit. Im wondering if it will be rather nissan skyline style on the limit? And when the back end does step out if the electronics will overly interfere? Think would be good to "once we all have our comp haldex's fitted" to share notes on the subject. Tim are you noticing a lot less understeer? 

Damien.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

V6RUL said:


> The Quattro on the TT is mechanical controlled by electronics, there is always going to be a certain amount of gap before it hooks up. I have the competition controller and DSG map to try and dial this gap out. It is still there but it has shortened and you can also creep, to know its on point.


The 'gap' is something like an eighth of a wheel revolution. As this is when the wheel has lost traction, that revolution is going to be pretty fast too (by definition it will be moving faster than the other wheels). If you can't tell the difference between a hesitation and wheels slipping, then you should probably get yourself a pipe, slippers and a slower car.

Anyone would think you make this stuff up to justify your purchases.


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

TTSPORT666 said:


> Tim are you noticing a lot less understeer?
> 
> Damien.


Ha! Damien, if I understand the terminology correctly and apply it correctly to what I'm experiencing when driving :?  , no understeer on that episode. It certainly seemed like an oversteer experience to me.


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## RRocket (May 1, 2011)

I guess I'm a bit late to this thread. I've had my "Blue" for about 2 years now and love it. It's especially amusing in the snow. One thing to note is because the clutches are getting used more with the controller, it is recommended that the Haldex oil change interval be shortened. So instead of ~40,000 miles, I've been doing it around 25,000 miles.

I must admit, I'm a bit surprised you guys hadn't heard about this great mod sooner.

Oh..here's another company that you guys may find useful. They make extremely robust adjustable control arms for half the price of the Forge units. These are pretty popular, and the company is great to deal with.

http://bwperformance.com/products/2832- ... ntrol-arms


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Spandex said:


> V6RUL said:
> 
> 
> > The Quattro on the TT is mechanical controlled by electronics, there is always going to be a certain amount of gap before it hooks up. I have the competition controller and DSG map to try and dial this gap out. It is still there but it has shortened and you can also creep, to know its on point.
> ...


I'm talking about the hesitation of death experianced from standstill.
And you know something about this topic because...youve tried to achieve better traction on the 3.2 DSG or being a friend of Google..
Steve


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## Tritium (Apr 25, 2011)

RRocket said:


> I guess I'm a bit late to this thread. I've had my "Blue" for about 2 years now and love it. It's especially amusing in the snow. One thing to note is because the clutches are getting used more with the controller, it is recommended that the Haldex oil change interval be shortened. So instead of ~40,000 miles, I've been doing it around 25,000 miles.
> 
> I must admit, I'm a bit surprised you guys hadn't heard about this great mod sooner.


We aren't talking about the blue haldex here but the competition version from HPA. Which some describe as a step up from the blue one in terms of four wheel drive application control.


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## Tritium (Apr 25, 2011)

TTSPORT666 said:


> . Im wondering if it will be rather nissan skyline style on the limit? And when the back end does step out if the electronics will overly interfere?
> Damien.


My apologies for butting in Damien, but correct me if i am wrong here. I seem to recall reading on the HPA site in particular and on haldex operation in general that the haldex is a "lower priority" to ESP and ABS. Thus would not the ESP ( assuming its on or not dialled out with vagcom) catch the car and attempt to correct any instability?

Or maybe thats what your saying! 

Brian


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I did around 250 miles yesterday in glorious weather and I love the way the car is handling with the upgrades.

Be warned Its not something you will notice unless you push the car hard then it comes into its own in my opinion.

I now look forward to seeing roundabouts and tight corners coming up and it encourages you to attack them more which is
prob not a good thing :lol:

I can imagine it could become a bit of a PITA if you do a lot of slow moves/parking etc every day but I don't so it doesn't bother me on the rare occasion I do have to use the clutch a bit more when parking etc.

I'm sat here in my works van (not driving) the sun is out and all I want to do is go home and take the car out so that's about as good a recommendation as I can make for the product. (and a BT/brake etc etc upgrade) :lol:


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

jamman said:


> I did around 250 miles yesterday in glorious weather and I love the way the car is handling with the upgrades.
> 
> Be warned Its not something you will notice unless you push the car hard then it comes into its own in my opinion.
> 
> ...


Glad you're happy with it James!


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

V6RUL said:


> I'm talking about the hesitation of death experianced from standstill.
> And you know something about this topic because...youve tried to achieve better traction on the 3.2 DSG or being a friend of Google..
> Steve


The 'hesitation of death' is a term that's been used on here for ages to describe an issue with the DSG gearbox, not the Haldex. It's also not from a standstill, but from _almost_ a standstill. The typical situation is as you're slowing down for a roundabout, then before you come to a stop you see a gap and suddenly accelerate - but the car doesn't respond for a second or so. This is where the 'of death' bit comes in, as the delay can cause some close shaves at junctions and roundabouts. I don't think anyone has confirmed whether or not this is a bug in the DSG software, or an early sign of DSG failure. It happened to me a few times.

As I said before, the 'gap' between a wheel spinning and the standard haldex controller transferring power is tiny, but the end result is wheel spin (until the rear wheels grip), not 'delay'. The HPA controller begins moving that power earlier (because throttle position is more heavily weighted in the algorithm), so you should see less wheelspin as it will act more like a permanent 4wd.

Oh, and I didn't try to achieve better traction on my 3.2 DSG, so it had the standard haldex controller, which is why I didn't need google to know what it felt like when I accelerated from standstill.


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## Tritium (Apr 25, 2011)

Had my HPA Comp controller fitted today, along with a DSG and Haldex oil/filter change for good measure.
Let the Funnnn begin. 
Maybe my imagination initially, but I sure felt like the car pushed better on corners. Plus the rear staying locked in on overrun will be a boon when "making progress" (as the police Roadcraft manual says) on theze ere Zumerset back roads. 
The one benefit of night shift is clear roads on the way home.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Twisty motorway on ramps and exits are a lot more fun as i can deffo tell that there is something going on at the rear.
Steve


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## Tritium (Apr 25, 2011)

V6RUL said:


> Twisty motorway on ramps and exits are a lot more fun as i can deffo tell that there is something going on at the rear.
> Steve


Last nights curry Steve, not the haldex. :lol:


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

Tritium said:


> Had my HPA Comp controller fitted today, along with a DSG and Haldex oil/filter change for good measure.
> Let the Funnnn begin.
> Maybe my imagination initially, but I sure felt like the car pushed better on corners. Plus the rear staying locked in on overrun will be a boon when "making progress" (as the police Roadcraft manual says) on theze ere Zumerset back roads.
> The one benefit of night shift is clear roads on the way home.





V6RUL said:


> Twisty motorway on ramps and exits are a lot more fun as i can deffo tell that there is something going on at the rear.
> Steve


Glad to hear it guys! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

When I first asked about this mod and then bought it myself, I was very clear that I was not taking responsibility for recommending it to anyone else. It made me happy and that was that. Then a few got interested and I felt at least partially responsible for possibly casting the first lemming over the edge . . . so I'm glad users are happy!  And it makes me feel it's not my imagination!! Thanks for reporting back your experiences!!


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## TTSPORT666 (Dec 1, 2011)

Nicely put Tim..... the first Lemming over the edge....... :lol: :lol: think that was a happy red lemming called James!!! i will be soon to follow over that edge....just need a trip to the usa with work now. 

Damien.


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## Tritium (Apr 25, 2011)

Vrroom said:


> When I first asked about this mod and then bought it myself, I was very clear that I was not taking responsibility for recommending it to anyone else. It made me happy and that was that. Then a few got interested and I felt at least partially responsible for possibly casting the first lemming over the edge . . . so I'm glad users are happy! And it makes me feel it's not my imagination!! Thanks for reporting back your experiences!!


Yes a good call Tim. I'm sure HPA will be passing on a recommendation dividend shortly.
I am starting to notice the differences. When hard accelerating the ole v6 there's a sense of solidity about the pull/push compared to a bonnet lift kinda drag previously.
Corners and roundabouts are once more entertaining. if only I had a little bit more power on tap... :lol:

no thats not a call for a 1.8 BT /V6 debate - Im stuck on the howl



TTSPORT666 said:


> i will be soon to follow over that edge....Damien.


its a nice edge to fall over. You'll enjoy it!

Brian


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## Frostyflax17 (Jan 26, 2009)

just getting my facts straight...

orange never ever ever releases the rear end and doesn't change tq split

blue only does so when braking

hpa is equivalent to orange

sqs is variable with a knob you have to get under the car to adjust, but there's a switch to disengage it fully and go 100$ front

there's some mystery, unobtainable standalone controller that supposedly has 4 different modes including drag mode

what ever happened to that standalone program that you could switch between modes? there was one called drag that was interesting. i did some research and couldn't find much info on it. 
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=139689&p=1438442&hilit=haldex+blue+drag#p1438442
http://www.crc-performance.com/Haldexsteuerung.html

there's also the sqs manual controller, that's another option, full on 50/50 with a switch to turn it on and off correct? (or if there isn't one, put a relay to the power source and turn it off when you want full 100% fwd correct?

full on 50/50 benefits
ability to get awhp on dyno correct
cornering and braking improved
better launches

full on 50/50 issues
(wear? but if it's never disengaged then how does it wear?)
drivetrain loss- if you're not in a low traction situation, you're losing power due to power being put to the back wheels. 
driving characeristics around corners with braking/accelerating may be not what you're used to (easy to learn though!)

i don't think orange or blue is what i'm looking for, i want something that i can have perfect 50/50 when autox, switch to 50/50 in drag applications (speeds lower then 60mph) then switch to fwd only, and then switch to 100 front when you're just cruising around and want the best mpg.

sorry for listing the other haldex options, i just believe this is one of the best threads for discussion.


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