# Car purchase - mis advertised - missing option - advice pls



## mrlossy (Sep 27, 2009)

Hi,

Last week I went to an Audi dealership to enquire about an s4 that was advertised on the Audi website. I asked for a list of the options fitted (which they printed) and looked at the vehicle. I was offered a p/ex price for my TT and the deal was done.

Yesterday I collect the s4 and drove it home, it's a 60 plate with 4k miles so pretty much brand new. This morning I needed to go back to the dealership to drop some paperwork off and on my way there I tried to use the adaptive cruise control which was listed as an option. To my horror it wasn't even fitted! What made matters worse is on the 6 mile journey the car has developed an electrical fault meaning it is now at the dealership.

The dealership has said they cannot discuss the options until Monday as they need to find out if the adaptive cruise can be retrofit. My research suggests not. They have said that a worse case scenario would be to refund me and give my car back. I don't think this is acceptable.

I need some advice on where I should take this, they are clearly in the wrong and have mis sold the vehicle.

What do I do, should I demand they supply a similar car that meets the spec. Bearing in mind I have actually paid for the vehicle.

Help!

Lossy


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## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

Sorry to hear about the problems with your purchase. Not sure how TT related your post is, but oh well :roll:

I would check the terms and conditions on your invoice, AFAIK dealers cover their back with a clause that states options as advertised aren't guaranteed or something along those lines. Basically they can just put it down to an admin error on the list of options and realistically I think a full refund is probably the best you can do if the option can't be retrofitted (FOC of course  )

Someone else may be able to advise you further, but that's my understanding of the situation.


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## andyTT180 (Mar 19, 2010)

A refund and return of your TT is probably the best you'll get :? . If you read the small print on most of the main dealer adverts it usually has a part which says spec listed may not exactly match the car. Technically it is your responsibility to check the spec and make sure your happy with the car before you buy it


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## Critter10 (Nov 4, 2010)

andyTT180 said:


> A refund and return of your TT is probably the best you'll get :? . If you read the small print on most of the main dealer adverts it usually has a part which says spec listed may not exactly match the car. Technically it is your responsibility to check the spec and make sure your happy with the car before you buy it


I agree. In any event, AFAIK, under English contract law they are unlikely to be liable other than to the extent of putting you back into the position you were in before the deal was struck. In contract law you have to prove damages, so if they reverse the deal they have an excellent case for claiming 'no harm done'.


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## mrlossy (Sep 27, 2009)

Critter10 said:


> andyTT180 said:
> 
> 
> > A refund and return of your TT is probably the best you'll get :? . If you read the small print on most of the main dealer adverts it usually has a part which says spec listed may not exactly match the car. Technically it is your responsibility to check the spec and make sure your happy with the car before you buy it
> ...


Sale of goods act states goods should be as described. And payment is a bond of the contract. It states that the purchaser has the right to:

1) have an alternative supplied to the correct specification
2) buy an alternative and claim the difference from the original seller if more
3) accept a full refund, however this is not compulsory

As to sell me tt I put the original wheels back on, brought new tyres, put the original stereo in all at my time and cost, just accepting a refund would leave me out of pocket. All was done at the request of the Audi dealership.

The dealership has both of my cars and my money!


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## Critter10 (Nov 4, 2010)

I agree the Sale of Goods Act covers these areas, but nevertheless in contract law you have to prove damages. Sounds like you have a case for some compensation, but I would be wary of seeking legal redress. I'm assuming the amount of consideration here is way above the small claims court threshold, which might mean taking a case to the civil courts proper. That's risky, although you may well find that a threat of such action might get you a positive response from the dealer. Could be worth a solicitors letter if you find they won't play ball :? .

What is it you want them to do, assuming they can't retrofit the cruise option? Decide that, and at least you've got something to negotiate round. But as I said, in so many words, _caveat emptor!_


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Here's how I see it.

Option three looks like the best you'd ever get - assuming the cruise can't be retrofitted.

You should, in my opinion, be entitled to either the money to put your car back to to pre-sale state. Or they do it for you.

But I can't see what else they'd be liable for. Other than perhaps travel/petrol costs.

What else could they do? Offer you money off as you wouldn't have bought the car if it didn't have cruise?


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## mrlossy (Sep 27, 2009)

Kell said:


> Here's how I see it.
> 
> Option three looks like the best you'd ever get - assuming the cruise can't be retrofitted.
> 
> ...


Well, surely if I'd paid for a car that is advertised as having a £900 option and it doesn't then at least they should offer me a refund on the cost of that item. Otherwise I'm paying for something that wasn't supplied!


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## Critter10 (Nov 4, 2010)

You're clearly entitled to, at the very least, the value of the extra that wasn't, if you see what I mean! You should, also at the very least be entitled to be put back into the position you were before the deal was struck, including compensation for any additional costs you have incurred.


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## mrlossy (Sep 27, 2009)

Critter10 said:


> You're clearly entitled to, at the very least, the value of the extra that wasn't, if you see what I mean! You should, also at the very least be entitled to be put back into the position you were before the deal was struck, including compensation for any additional costs you have incurred.


I think if the cruise cannot be retrofitted, I'll ask the original cost of the cruise to be refunded and a sum of cash to compensate me for having a car that didn't meet my original requirement. I know I can live without adaptive cruise, I also know that I wouldn't have purchased the vehicle at it's price if they made me aware it didn't have it!

I am now in receipt of the internet advertisment for the car as well as the print out from the dealership. Both adverts clearly list this as being a fitted option. Even when I spoke to the sales guy, he appeared to think it was fitted (until he checked the audi database of course)


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Demand an R8 v10 , don't rest until they cough up


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

If the car is, indeed, worth less as a result of not having that option, then you should be entitled to redress.

But I doubt they will consider the full price of the option as being the "value".

If it were missing something which really did impact the value (e.g. factory sat nav, auto gear box) then the case would be crystal clear. In completing the sale, unless there is a specific way they can wriggle out of it, then they have entered into a contract with you to supply specific goods, and have failed to do so - in other words, they have broken the contract.

Because they have taken your car in part-exchange, this may make things a little more complex. If it were me, I wouldn't want my TT back, as you don't know what they've done to it and who's driven it after it ceased to be "yours".

But the position is clear. By not providing the goods under the contract that was clearly formed, you ARE entitled to be put back in the position you were in before, and then may have a strong case to sue them for a "loss of bargain".

In short, you do your homework and find out what it would cost you to get an S4 of identical spec from another dealership, including the part-ex of your own car, and you should have a case to sue them for the difference - because that is precisely what it will have cost you by them not being able to complete the contract, and for you to make the same transaction elsewhere.

That way, you get the S4 of the spec you're after, at the price you agreed (with the original dealership) and they will have to stump up the difference.

The problem is, you'll never find an "identical" car elsewhere, so you would still have to negotiate one way or another.

Probably your best bet is simply to get very loud and stroppy on a busy Saturday in the middle of the dealership, complain at the top of your voice to the Dealer Principle, and accept £500 or so to keep your gob shut. Adaptive cruise control is a nice toy, but it probably isn't the reason you bought the car, and it probably isn't worth anything like £500 on the price of the car 2nd hand...


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## mrlossy (Sep 27, 2009)

Some really well put points, thanks!

Yes - I totally agree with the fact that I hav no idea what's happenned to my car since I sold it to them, and no I shouldn't accept it back!

I will really push for a refund of the Adaptive cruise option, the value is subjective to the purchaser and as far as i'm concerned could be the single most important reason I got the car.

Monday will be interesting.

Thanks for the advice.


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## andyTT180 (Mar 19, 2010)

This is what the Audi approved used site terms and conditions state

"Product Specification

The specifications contained in this website are for information purposes only as we cannot confirm the exact specifications of the vehicle. If you require any specific feature you must consult your Audi Centre who is regularly updated with any change in specification. Please check model availability and full specification details with your Audi Centre prior to ordering. Neither Audi nor Audi Partners can accept contractual responsibility for your reliance on the information contained herein.

Some illustrations in this website do not necessarily reflect UK specifications and may not be available. Consequently controls and some items of equipment are positioned differently for the UK"


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## mrlossy (Sep 27, 2009)

andyTT180 said:


> This is what the Audi approved used site terms and conditions state
> 
> "Product Specification
> 
> ...


Companies often put thing like this in documentation, however UK consumer law overides any local conditions. It's like people who put up in shops "all breakages must be paid for" total rubbish. The fact is here Audi listed a specification in two seperate places and gave me written details of the spec of the car. It is unreasonable to expect someone to check every individual peice of equipment listed in the specification and the seller must accept responsibility for the accuracy of the details given. If there were not such laws in place you'd be able to sell a fiat punto and describe it as an R8.

We'll see what they say.


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## mrlossy (Sep 27, 2009)

"If you require any specific feature you must consult your Audi Centre who is regularly updated with any change in specification." - with reference to this, It was direct from the supplying dealership where I got the print out of the specification.


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## andyTT180 (Mar 19, 2010)

Im only stating what the Audi website says they'll likely be reasonable with you and offer you a refund for the cruise control but I doubt they'll by law have to. Most of the website adverts and specfications will be done by admin staff who no nothing about cars, Audi will have their back well covered.


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## dodge1311 (Aug 3, 2010)

I believe if this was a b2b sale then your points could well be correct. However i am assumijg you are a private individual and therfore the contract between yoy and audi can be cancelled by either party, in this case that would mean you returning whats theirs and vice versa. If you choose not to accept that offer because you want more than you started with, your case would need to be extremly strong in an English court.

That being said the dealer does not want to give you your money back as it serves no purpose to them and would probably cost them more to try and re- sell at the lower value so you are in an advantageous position.

I used to sell performance bikes for a living and worked in returns and warrantys for a few years, and we could largly make these decisions without going back to our the manufacurers ( we only sold new stock and specs are usually copied from the manufactures list not created incorrectly by the dealer.) I believe over 10,000 new cars are sold each year with incorrect list options, and I do not know of any successfull claim after a full refund had been rejected ( i could well be wrong though). I would advise though if you are going to kick off in the dealership consider your options first. The dealer is well aware of the law and his obligations to you and may decide to drag his heels as a result of your outbursts thats what I used to do.

Best of luck!

( oh and next time take some time out to check what it is you are actually getting for your money it doesnt take that much time to check a car over and it is a big purchase.)


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## mrlossy (Sep 27, 2009)

dodge1311 said:


> I believe if this was a b2b sale then your points could well be correct. However i am assumijg you are a private individual and therfore the contract between yoy and audi can be cancelled by either party, in this case that would mean you returning whats theirs and vice versa. If you choose not to accept that offer because you want more than you started with, your case would need to be extremly strong in an English court.
> 
> That being said the dealer does not want to give you your money back as it serves no purpose to them and would probably cost them more to try and re- sell at the lower value so you are in an advantageous position.
> 
> ...


This isn't a new car, it's an ex Audi car. What is on my side is Audi have actually taken payment for the car and have my car in p/ex. Effectively they have purchased my car from me and I am not obliged to take it back. I hear and understand the great advice given. Really appreciate all the comments!


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## Jen-TT (Feb 2, 2009)

wallsendmag said:


> Demand an R8 v10 , don't rest until they cough up


 :lol: :lol: can you imagine if someone actually did this


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## mrlossy (Sep 27, 2009)

"( oh and next time take some time out to check what it is you are actually getting for your money it doesnt take that much time to check a car over and it is a big purchase.)"

I actually did check the car over and the cruise control stalk was there. I'm no expert on every minor detail and had no reason to believe the cruise wasn't adaptive. It's not quite the same as checking for a CD player, or MMI. By going to an Audi dealership you'd expect what they advertise to be correct, afterall they had the car sitting outside.....


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## hooting_owl (Sep 3, 2008)

blimey - they are offering you a refund and your PX back. what more do you want?

give claims direct a call and see if they can sort you out with some compensation for the distress caused.

it seems the dealer has made an honest mistake. it happens. you're disappointed. if adaptive cruise was that important to you, you would want to return the car. as i read it, you would settle for 900 notes off the price you paid for the car. that is not reasonable.

accept the offer the dealer is making to either retrofit if possible (unlikely) or take the refund. they may also make an offer of a free service or two if retrofit is not possible.

sorry if i am sounding harsh


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## mrlossy (Sep 27, 2009)

hooting_owl said:


> blimey - they are offering you a refund and your PX back. what more do you want?
> 
> give claims direct a call and see if they can sort you out with some compensation for the distress caused.
> 
> ...


You seem a bit of a soft touch.... Not harsh.... So by Monday i'll have been without a car for three days, been mis sold a £35K S4, given Audi my TT and changed all the wheels, removed all the stereo etc, changed my private plate, cancelled and purchased new insurance and I should just be grateful for a refund.... err, I don't think so....

Don't get me wrong, I'll be happy to keep the car, but I'd want some form of discount to cover for the £930 extra that I paid for that isn't there......

And as for "an honest mistake", I think most mistakes are probably honest, but if I was advertising my car, say on Ebay for £35K I'm sure I'd know exactly what spec it had and wouldn't list something it didn't.

From directgov

"If you can show that the vehicle did not match the description the seller gave you, you will have a claim against them, even if the seller believed the description to be true. It will strengthen your claim if you have written proof of the false description, for example, a newspaper advertisement. A false description which was only made verbally and not in writing will be much harder to prove, unless someone else was present who can act as a witness."


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Is adaptive cruise control really the massive deal for you that you're making out?

If so, then your choice is simple. Get your money and your car back, plus a consideration for the one material cost you seem to have incurred, which is new tyres, taking into account the fact that if you intend to re-p/x your car, it will need new tyres in any case, so you haven't suffered a loss, just incurred a cost you were going to incur in any case. If you're still planning to buy another Audi get the dealership to commit to honour your p/x price on your next car. If the next one you choose doesn't have adaptive cruise, expect the dealership to be less sympathetic towards you forever more!

If adaptive cruise isn't really such a big deal for you, I think the best you can expect is the original cost of the option, less the cost of normal cruise control, adjusted pro-rata for depreciation to the same degree the actual car was, plus a small goodwill gesture for your time.


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## cuTTsy (Jan 31, 2003)

Look for another S4 and if you find one you want then try to get the value in cash of the S4 you have back so they end up with two and you negotiate another good deal with a different dealer.


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

clived said:


> Is adaptive cruise control really the massive deal for you that you're making out?
> 
> If so, then your choice is simple. Get your money and your car back, plus a consideration for the one material cost you seem to have incurred, which is new tyres, taking into account the fact that if you intend to re-p/x your car, it will need new tyres in any case, so you haven't suffered a loss, just incurred a cost you were going to incur in any case. If you're still planning to buy another Audi get the dealership to commit to honour your p/x price on your next car. If the next one you choose doesn't have adaptive cruise, expect the dealership to be less sympathetic towards you forever more!
> 
> If adaptive cruise isn't really such a big deal for you, I think the best you can expect is the original cost of the option, less the cost of normal cruise control, adjusted pro-rata for depreciation to the same degree the actual car was, plus a small goodwill gesture for your time.


The above is reasonable, pragmatic and achievable in negotiation with the dealer.
Your stance, and let's be blunt here, particularly when you whine about having removed the stereo and your private plate from your trade-in before 'giving' it to Audi, is not.

Successful negotiation to resolve a problem requires a degree of reasonableness and realism on both sides. You say that you would be happy to keep the car so adaptive CC clearly isn't a deal breaker. You do however have an unrealistic expectation of what proportion of the price you paid was for the adaptive function of CC on a used car.

Since you would be happy to keep the car it would be ironic if the dealer simply reverses the deal so you would have a TT you no longer want, no S4 and an Audi dealer where you are no longer welcome.


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## Wolfsburger (Oct 21, 2002)

brittan said:


> You say that you would be happy to keep the car so adaptive CC clearly isn't a deal breaker. You do however have an unrealistic expectation of what proportion of the price you paid was for the adaptive function of CC on a used car.


I was thinking along the same lines myself. I think the dealership have been very good with the offer they`ve made the OP. In the OP`s position I`d keep the car and put it down to experience.

When I buy any car (new or used) I check 100% that the options listed are indeed fitted prior to closing the deal. I suggest in future the OP does the same.


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## mrlossy (Sep 27, 2009)

So many responses and some a little personal! Let's just see what happens tomorrow and then see which people would have lost out because they simply accepted the easy and grateful resolution. Should be an interesting day!


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

mrlossy said:


> andyTT180 said:
> 
> 
> > This is what the Audi approved used site terms and conditions state
> ...


the fact that you actually asked for a full spec on the vehicle and they gave you a full printed typed spec.........leaves them open. sold not as listed. if you ask me for a cooper s and i take ya bucks and sell you del boys trotter crap........??? its not as per per per, forget there rules and regs!!! push it but ring CA first thing on monday to ensure your rights. they are only a dealership and not Audi themselves. good luck m8ee hope you get what you are looking for, ps: push for a hire car until it is resolved as it is their fault not yours.


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## Wolfsburger (Oct 21, 2002)

mrlossy said:


> Let's just see what happens tomorrow and then see which people would have lost out because they simply accepted the easy and grateful resolution.


You`re assuming that others would`ve put themselves in the same situation you now find yourself in by not physically confirming the actual spec before closing the deal.

Consequently, I`d have lost out on nothing, as I`d have left nothing to chance. Did you carry out an HPI check on the car by the way, or did you accept the dealer`s confirmation that the car was clean?

Good luck anyway.......


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## MXS (May 10, 2010)

mrlossy said:


> So many responses and some a little personal! ....


IMHO

If you do not like the sound of the answer, do not ask the question :wink:


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## mrlossy (Sep 27, 2009)

MXS said:


> mrlossy said:
> 
> 
> > So many responses and some a little personal! ....
> ...


I didn't say that I did not like any answers, I just said some of the comments were a little personal..... Advice by it's very nature should be constructive, if you read some of the responses you'll see they are not. Believe me IDGAF what people write....


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## hope88 (Mar 25, 2011)

I've tried this with Audi before. If the specification is on the website then they are not liable for the error. If you drive off without asking or pointing out the missing specification there's nothing much you can do about it I'm afraid.

The first TT I've bought was advertised on the website as having xenons. Even the salesperson told me it had xenons (but I didn't check it before driving off). After finding out I called the Manager and all I got was an apology.


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## mrlossy (Sep 27, 2009)

Just got off the phone from the sales manager who has agreed to refund £930 from the purchase price. I accepted and am happy with the outcome. Thanks for all the constrictive advice.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Glad you got a result. One thing this thread highlights is that if you ask a legal question on an internet forum you are liable to get some bloody appalling advice. Half of what was posted here was complete rubbish. If people don't absolutely *know* what they are talking about then they really should keep their opinions to themselves rather than give people what could be a very costly bum-steer.

Of course you had some come-back against the garage for selling you goods that were not as described! As you've found you had protections under the Sale of Goods Act and general civil law principles regarding breach of contract. It would have been reasonable for the garage to offer to retrofit the cruise control if that were posssible, but as it appears it was not then you were entitled to set the contract aside, meaning you get a full refund and your trade-in car back in the exact condition you gave it to them. Had anything been done with the car you had traded in you would have been entitled to have that rectified or compensated. Paying you the cost of whatever the cruise was as an option sounds like a good compromise made by the dealership who knew you had them over a barrel.

One or two people here who suggested you couldn't do anything about it and that they had been in similar positions themselves and got no recourse really ought to be feeling bloody foolish. They didn't half see you guys coming!


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## MXS (May 10, 2010)

mrlossy said:


> Just got off the phone from the sales manager who has agreed to refund £930 from the purchase price. I accepted and am happy with the outcome. Thanks for all the constrictive advice.


I'm pleased you got it sorted.


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## jamietd (Aug 25, 2010)

result


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## mrlossy (Sep 27, 2009)

Mark Davies said:


> Glad you got a result. One thing this thread highlights is that if you ask a legal question on an internet forum you are liable to get some bloody appalling advice. Half of what was posted here was complete rubbish. If people don't absolutely *know* what they are talking about then they really should keep their opinions to themselves rather than give people what could be a very costly bum-steer.
> 
> Of course you had some come-back against the garage for selling you goods that were not as described! As you've found you had protections under the Sale of Goods Act and general civil law principles regarding breach of contract. It would have been reasonable for the garage to offer to retrofit the cruise control if that were posssible, but as it appears it was not then you were entitled to set the contract aside, meaning you get a full refund and your trade-in car back in the exact condition you gave it to them. Had anything been done with the car you had traded in you would have been entitled to have that rectified or compensated. Paying you the cost of whatever the cruise was as an option sounds like a good compromise made by the dealership who knew you had them over a barrel.
> 
> One or two people here who suggested you couldn't do anything about it and that they had been in similar positions themselves and got no recourse really ought to be feeling bloody foolish. They didn't half see you guys coming!


Yes to be honest I was a bit stunned with some of the responses. I'm pretty clued up on the sale of goods act and legal matters, but really wanted to hear of others experiences and what tact to take. In the end I didn't listen to "the dealers being fair", "be grateful of a refund","lucky to get an apology" etc. and wrote to the manager explaining the situation and the fact the sale of goods act was clearly breached as the goods did not meet their description. Regardless of what others have said on this post about I should have checked etc, etc, the fact that the goods were incorrectly described meant the dealer was clearly at fault. The actual amount I am being refunded is £930 +VAT, which is the original cost of the extra. The simple fact here is that their are laws in place to protect the consumer and regardless if the dealer made a genuine mistake or not, that's their problem not mine.

At least the story has a happy ending, however I feel somewhat surprised that several people here would have potentially lost either the car, or a large sum of money if they adheared to their own advice....

Once again thanks for all the constructive comments. For those who don't understand their consumer rights, it's really worth doing some simple research, it may help out should you encounter similar problems.....

Lossy


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Think you got a great result


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Fantastic Lossy, you held your ground and quoted the law..............they knew you were not a customer to foot with and so backed off and gave in. really really glad for you bud


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

"A great result" - really?!?

Aren't you the slightest bit curious to how they were able to give you that money back? On a new car, a dealer's margin on an option is huge, so I really can't see them offering you the full list price as 'good will' on a used car, not without them clawing back the money from elsewhere in the deal. There must have been at least £930 margin in the car in the first place! Shocking!

It must have been a bad deal you got on the original price if they can afford to give you that amount of money "back", because quite frankly all this stuff about "sale of goods act" could have easily been dismissed with their small print and T&C's.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

kmpowell said:


> "A great result" - really?!?
> 
> Aren't you the slightest bit curious to how they were able to give you that money back? On a new car, a dealer's margin on an option is huge, so I really can't see them offering you the full list price as 'good will' on a used car, not without them clawing back the money from elsewhere in the deal. There must have been at least £930 margin in the car in the first place! Shocking!
> 
> It must have been a bad deal you got on the original price if they can afford to give you that amount of money "back", because quite frankly all this stuff about "sale of goods act" could have easily been dismissed with their small print and T&C's.


That's just the kind of misinformed rubbish I was talking about. They haven't given him that money by choice!

The reason they have refunded so much money is because they were over a barrel - they had made a mistake in describing the goods they were selling and all the cards were in their customer's hands. They knew that if he'd wanted to press the issue he could have had all his money back and his trade-in car. It may well be the trade-in car was already gone and they'd not be able to get it back, so what do they do then?

They have very probably made a loss on this deal, but they've at least minimised the costs of their mistake and won't be doing that again.

Just to correct your ignorance _*nothing*_ within small print or T&Cs can dismiss your rights in law under the Sale of Goods Act.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Mark Davies said:


> kmpowell said:
> 
> 
> > "A great result" - really?!?
> ...


Mark

As with most things you post (when you feel you're right) - you come out fighting, attempting to state your moral high-ground, but you miss the salient points of a post. Given your history of "keyboard wars", I haven't the inclination to respond in depth to your post as it will turn into a tit for tat.

You have your opinion, I have mine (that is a hell of a lot more informed than you know). Let's just leave it at that.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

I'm not really sure how the dealer could be described as 'over a barrel'. They'd made a mistake, they admitted their mistake and and they had two obvious options for correcting that mistake. Either they did a full refund (and frankly, any work done by the OP to prepare his car for part-ex are nothing to do with the dealer as the dealer won't have requested those changes or put them in the contract) or they 'made good' with a partial refund agreed between the two parties. If the dealer had chosen to do the full refund, I don't see how the OP could have challenged that. As it was, it was obviously cheaper for the dealer to knock £930 off than it was to re-do all the paperwork, so that was what they offered.

<edit>Regarding what they do if they've already sold the trade-in car, they have to give you the cash value agreed in the invoice.


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## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

Result - I am surprised they refunded the full original cost of the option as on the used marketplace it would not have retained that value. Well done for sticking to your guns and not being fobbed off.

Having sold cars many years ago I know (knew) that the margin in 2nd hand cars is or certainly can be substantially more than in a brand new one.

Charlie


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## mrlossy (Sep 27, 2009)

All,

Soz this post has got heated but people once again make assumptions without knowing the facts.

1) the dealer did ask me to remove and refit the original stereo and wheels as part of the deal
2) dealers always have margins, 
3) I know the deal I got was good, I'd researched for six months
4) my p/ex was the same as other Audi dealers had offered
5) the dealer had no option but to refund the cost of that extra, if people enlighten themselves with the sale of goods act they would understand that I could have potentially pushed this further, but this was a fair compromise
6) if the dealer had any right to protest they would have done, after all they are giving me £1100 pounds of their original profit

I suppose at the end of the day as I'm totally happy with do outcome, it's been a good result. Hopefully this post will serve to encourage those who may have a similar story to understand their rights.

Lossy


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

mrlossy said:


> 3) I know the deal I got was good





mrlossy said:


> 6)after all they are giving me £1100 pounds of their original profit


Sorry, but how on earth can you say the deal was good if you know they had at least a grand profit?!?


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

mrlossy said:


> 5) the dealer had no option but to refund the cost of that extra, if people enlighten themselves with the sale of goods act they would understand that I could have potentially pushed this further, but this was a fair compromise


Having been on the wrong end of a dodgy independent dealer, I'm well aware of the sale of goods act, but unless it's changed dramatically since I read it, the only thing a buyer can *demand* is a full refund. Any partial refunds or retrofits or other methods to make good on the deal are at the discretion of the seller (as long as the buyer agrees to it).


> The Sale of Goods Act 1979 states that, if you can show the goods to be faulty, not fit for their purpose or misdescribed, you have, for a short time after purchase, a right to reject them and get a refund of the purchase price. Therefore, if you have only had the car for a very short time, have only driven a few miles and you discover a major problem, you are probably entitled to reject it and get your money back plus the return of a 'traded in' car, if there was one, or its value if it has been disposed of.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Well indeed, but if you were the dealer would you rather hand back all the cash and the trade in car (that you might already have spent money on to resell, sent to aution or transported to another dealer) and then go through the expense of having your car back on the forecourt for however long trying to resell it - or would you prefer to put it down to experience, cut your losses, lose your profit on the sale but at least have the stock gone and some cash flow through the bank account? The simple business of handing back the trade-in car and again going through the process of selling the S3 could have meant the loss of a few hundred pounds on it's own. That and the loss of profit on the sale could easily be in excess of the £900 or so that they've paid without that profit needing to have been excessive.

One advantage of knowing your rights is appreciating the bargaining position that they give you. No, the dealership didn't *have* to give the value of the cruise control in compensation but I suspect it was clearly more cost-effective for them than to provide what could have been demanded.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Mark Davies said:


> One advantage of knowing your rights is appreciating the bargaining position that they give you. No, the dealership didn't *have* to give the value of the cruise control in compensation but I suspect it was clearly more cost-effective for them than to provide what could have been demanded.


True, but the gist of the OPs early posts was that he would refuse a full refund (because it was his least desired option) and the dealer would have to accept this otherwise a court would force him to.

The reason a buyer can only really demand a full refund is that there's provision in the law to protect the dealer from losing out financially. In the event that repairs or whatever is needed to resolve the issue is going to cost too much, the dealer has the right to refuse and provide a full refund. Basically you can't have them over a barrel. They always have that fall-back.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

The reality is that buying and selling to a dealer means you always get the worst end of a deal. They offer you less for your car as they have to move it on. And they charge you more as... well never quite figured this one out. But you do get peace of mind that their money won't bounce.

So, Kev, I'd assume that when the OP talks about a good deal, it means a good dealer deal. This is different to the best deal you could get, but has its advantages in other ways.


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## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

kmpowell said:


> mrlossy said:
> 
> 
> > 3) I know the deal I got was good
> ...


I am curious, how much do you expect a dealer to "have" as profit in a used car deal? From experience some years ago it was anything up to £2500 margin, if still the case then to have to hand back less than half of that, whilst still painful, is not the end of the world.

Charlie


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