# M3 CSL is awesome



## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

I think I'm doing the right thing, but would appreciate any comments for and against the CSL versus the R32.

If anyone's interested in my Sept 2003 7500 mile R32 that I've owned and cherished from new, send me a message. I'll advertise it properly when I get some more leisure time in front of my computer.

Cheers for now
Rob


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## jonno (May 7, 2002)

I suppose its a logical step 

Obviously e46 residuals are not what they were, but the "new" M3 is still about 12-18 months away at least, and e46 M3s are still being built I think. Replacement is supposed to be a 400bhp+ V8 though.

I did hear that CSL's in particular had taken a bit of a beating recently compared to the "std" M3s as far as depreciation. is concerned. Be aware of the new options pack on M3s (a sort of run-out special) called the CS, some of the CSL's looks but not necessarily all the go, so to some it might make the CSL appear a bit less special.

Not that many in dealer stock, but the sticker prices are now sub 40k in some cases.

You might also know BM dealers have a strict 90 day stock policy, after that it gets rotated- so they can move to more sensible money at the end of the 3 months stock period.

Not all have the 19" CSL alloys, I've seen them running the std M3 type too, which *may* give a slightly better everyday ride.

NB just in case you didn't know, the top one is conventiently @ Dick Lovett in Cribbs C'way, which may be handy. :wink: 
None too subtle plate though - "M500 CSL" :roll: 
Good luck. Nice problem to have find the time to test them out. 

100% M3 CSL Coupe Manual
2004 2,810 Silver Grey Reflex Cloth Laser Amaretta anthraci 4 Â£43,995 
100% M3 CSL Coupe Manual
2004 13,000 Silver Grey Reflex Cloth Laser Amaretta anthraci 35 Â£39,795 
100% M3 CSL Coupe Manual
2004 2,106 Silver Grey Reflex Cloth Laser Amaretta anthraci 66 Â£42,995 
100% M3 CSL Coupe Manual
2004 7,000 Silver Grey Reflex Cloth Laser Amaretta anthraci 105 Â£43,995 
100% M3 CSL Coupe Manual
2004 15,500 Silver Grey Reflex Cloth Laser Amaretta anthraci 107 Â£42,995 
100% M3 CSL Coupe Manual
2003 10,000 Silver Grey Reflex Cloth Laser Amaretta anthraci 107 Â£41,995 
100% M3 CSL Coupe Manual
2003 10,815 Silver Grey Reflex Cloth Laser Amaretta anthraci 121 Â£41,850 
100% M3 CSL Coupe Manual
2004 6,248 Silver Grey Reflex Cloth Laser Amaretta anthraci 131 Â£44,995 
100% M3 CSL Coupe Manual
2003 91 Black Sapphire Reflex Cloth Laser Amaretta anthraci 155 Â£44,995 
100% M3 CSL Coupe Manual
2003 6,653 Silver Grey Reflex Cloth Laser Amaretta anthraci 160 Â£40,995

Oh, less scope for mods on an M3 than R32.


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

Rob Beves: International Vehicle Transducer Extraordinaire


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

Thanks Jonno - funnily enough, I'm already booked to go and test drive the one at Dick Lovett 

I haven't even driven one but there were 3 of them parked together at the Nurburgring last week and I was suprised as to how special they look compared to a boggo M3. I was expecting the interior to be 'stripped-out', but it was nothing of the sort (swathes of Alcantara) and the carbon roof + details look superb.

What I want to check is how hardcore they are (i.e. noisy, uncomfortable) as, like with the R32, I don't want a trackday car. I may do one per year (as with the R32), but that's it. Otherwise there's no point buying an Exige. If I don't think I can live with it, I'll do some more head scratching but will most likely keep the R32, at least until the MK V one comes out. On that point though, my local dealer informs me that the new R32 will be mass produced and not a limited edition, so the MK IV may always stay more collectable.


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

oops, duplicate post that I cannot delete


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## r14n (Jan 10, 2003)

Rob, you will love it,

drove various M3's down at Rockingham on the track with the various gearbox modes, the CSL did feel a BIG step above.
So much so, I queed for a 2nd and 3rd go. 
and was lucky enough to get a FAST lap with one of the instructors.

Defo on my wish list.


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## jonno (May 7, 2002)

Rob quikc addition to my original post,
A couple of ppl where I work have them, and use them as "daily drivers", will try and ask if I see them of their impressions in this context.

Presumably you get the choice of SMGII box or manual as per regular "non-cafeinated" M3? :wink:

As you mention, the inside looks a nice place to be for sometime (well, for an e46 anyway), not sure on the longevity of all that alcantara though - have heard reports of steering wheels looking shabby @ just a few 000's miles, and expensive to replace (obviously).

Options
Not sure how many ppl went for the usual bells and whistles on the CSL compared to the M3 - PDC is useful due to height of back seat, DVD widescreen sat nav handy but not essential, climate and radio - I think you can decide that for yourself!

Colours
I've only seen silver grey (lots of those), Sapphire Black (not many) and carbon black (only one)


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## Harv (May 12, 2004)

Slightly off topic, but a mate of mine just rang me saying he was outside my office in his new motor, he had a V6 TT, then A4 Cab, and it was a M3 Scnitzer (sp?) it looked the dogs it was in a yellow/green metallic, sounds rank i know but was defo a head turner with a light green (pistachio...not as bad as it sounds)leather, had some stunning alloys Schitzer exhausts (amazing sound) short shift and full electrics (i dont know what is std on the cars), sat nav and Tv, it went like stink, he couldnt rag it as i wrk in canary wharf but im convincing him to come to HMC on Sun.

Its on a 53 plate 20k miles it was up for 34k and he paid 29k, he said the dealer was doing amazing deals as its mid year and he has a million worth of stock to clear to hit targets, etc, dont know how much of this is dealer rubbish but my mates well chuffed, hes told him to ask ound if others are intrested as he can do some deals at the moment

Will find out more details if anyones intrested.

Cheers


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## jonno (May 7, 2002)

Harv said:


> Slightly off topic, but a mate of mine just rang me saying he was outside my office in his new motor, he had a V6 TT, then A4 Cab, and it was a M3 Scnitzer (sp?) it looked the dogs it was in a yellow/green metallic, sounds rank i know but was defo a head turner with a light green (pistachio...not as bad as it sounds)leather, had some stunning alloys Schitzer exhausts (amazing sound) short shift and full electrics (i dont know what is std on the cars), sat nav and Tv, it went like stink, he couldnt rag it as i wrk in canary wharf but im convincing him to come to HMC on Sun.
> 
> Its on a 53 plate 20k miles it was up for 34k and he paid 29k, he said the dealer was doing amazing deals as its mid year and he has a million worth of stock to clear to hit targets, etc, dont know how much of this is dealer rubbish but my mates well chuffed, hes told him to ask ound if others are intrested as he can do some deals at the moment
> 
> ...


Sounds like the old phoenix yellow n' kiwi leather combo. OK if you like that sort of thing, till you come to sell it. Then you find you're the only person on the planet that likes it. :wink:


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## Harv (May 12, 2004)

Thats the one..kiwi leather, yep not something that would normally appeal to me, but it was defo a head turner :wink:


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## Wolfsburger (Oct 21, 2002)

Rob,
There`s an M3/CSL buying guide in this month`s EVO.


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## shao_khan (May 7, 2002)

Rob,

Chris P on tyresmoke I think is just getting rid of a CSL - he has certainly been talking about a new car of late, so might be worth a chat with him as an owner of one.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

The CSL is a great track car! Maybe you don't want to hear that. For road the special tyres can be a handful in wet, but sublime in dry.

Maybe for damp Feb tuesdays, it's not the best choice, and to not have th trick tyres, will be defeating object...unless you run winter tyres on a set of 18"s.

I did an R400 day at Brands last year and there were a squadron on CSLs. They stomped all over the regular M3s. One well-driven one hauled me in and a brace of GT3rs's that were lapping briskly.

Don't get one without aircon.

Different league to R32. imho of course. :wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Can't really add much to what's already been said.

Never driven a CSL, but had a passenger ride at VMAX last year. The car itself was a little too raw for my liking & back then you were looking at close to Â£58K for a CSL, so thought it represented bad value.

Now their down at the Â£40K mark, i think one with at least a few options could be a good move from the R32, but i'm not sure if you/i could live with it as an everyday runner. All IMHO & as i never drove it i can't be sure.

They do look good & different enough from the raft of standard M3's on the roads right now.


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## roc888 (Mar 7, 2003)

Hi Rob,

I test drove a M3 CSL last week.

I have to say that it an amazing track day car !!

I was considering a used CSL or M3. It seems that the M3 will probably be the winner for me as since I was unimpressed (but not surprised) with the CSL interior and spec.

A 2 year old CSL will set you back about Â£45K incomparison with a Â£32K M3.

If you are like me who cannot live without the luxuries such as air con, leather seats, xenon lights decent sound system etc, buy an M3.

If you can, buy an M3 CSL.

The best thing about the CSL, is the sound of the engine !!!  It sounds much better than a M3.

Alex


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## roc888 (Mar 7, 2003)

Hi Rob,

I test drove a M3 CSL last week.

I have to say that it an amazing track day car !!

I was considering a used CSL or M3. It seems that the M3 will probably be the winner for me as since I was unimpressed (but not surprised) with the CSL interior and spec.

A 2 year old CSL will set you back about Â£45K incomparison with a Â£32K M3.

If you are like me who cannot live without the luxuries such as air con, leather seats, xenon lights decent sound system etc, buy an M3.

If you can, buy an M3 CSL.

The best thing about the CSL, is the sound of the engine !!!  It sounds much better than a M3.

Alex


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

jonno said:


> Presumably you get the choice of SMGII box or manual as per regular "non-cafeinated" M3? :wink:


iirc, they only came with the SMG, which is one of the big question marks for me...

No question re colour - I want Silver/Grey

As for wheels/tyres, I will try and get a spare set so I can use it all year round. What I don't need is two cars with trick tyres.

As for day to day use, I walk to work so I'm really only talking about weekends and trips abroad.


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

shao_khan said:


> Rob,
> Chris P on tyresmoke I think is just getting rid of a CSL - he has certainly been talking about a new car of late, so might be worth a chat with him as an owner of one.


Thanks, I will post something on there and get some feedback. Whichever car I buy will be from a BMW dealer with a full warranty and no evidence of track day use.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

b3ves said:


> shao_khan said:
> 
> 
> > Rob,
> ...


Unlikely to find aCSL that hasn't done track days. that is after all the whole raison d'etre of the homologation and justification of the Â£20K premium over the stock M3. My M3 just never really grabbed me tho...


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## Neil (May 7, 2002)

garyc said:


> that is after all the whole raison d'etre of the homologation and justification of the Â£20K premium over the stock M3


....just like the raison d'etre of a Land Rover / Range Rover is off-roading, not the school run and trips to Sainsburys :roll:

Reckon there's quite a number of CSL's not tracked, people just buy 'em cos they've got the money and want to pose in the latest model :? . Then chop them in a year later when they've got bored, hence the number for sale at the moment.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

neil1003 said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > that is after all the whole raison d'etre of the homologation and justification of the Â£20K premium over the stock M3
> ...


Possibly - in which case the speculators got well and truely burned. I'd have thought the rationale and emotion behind choosing a CSL is more closely linked to 'sporting intent' ie tracking, than an SUV is for 'off-roading'.

Not that a tracked pre-owned specimen is a major problem, so long as it has been serviced by a BMW dealer. That's what it was designed for. Checking trace logs in SMG SW for 'full-on' launches would be my major concern - as it knocks hell out of the drive train -and that is something one is more likely to find in a road example that has been baiting Evos.... :wink:


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## jonno (May 7, 2002)

roc888 said:


> Hi Rob,
> 
> I test drove a M3 CSL last week.
> 
> ...


Alex - you might have been unlucky but you can spec all those - (xenons are std), bar the leather - as the racing buckets are alcantara only.


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> neil1003 said:
> 
> 
> > garyc said:
> ...


Many of those I have seen advertised privately say 'no track use', which seems like a waste of the car, but given the choice I would obviously choose to buy one that hasn't been ragged. Good point re the traces - I got mine for the Exige at its first service just to show that I had followed the correct running-in procedure.


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

The one I test drove this morning was awesome so I've bitten the bullet and given the dealer a deposit. It's exactly a year old and has only done 2800 miles, with no sign of scrubbed tyres to indicate track use and a couple of very small stone chips on the front spoiler to re-assure that it hasn't been resprayed (dealer will now touch-in).

Unfortunately, it hasn't got the cup alloys/tyres (19" M3 alloys were a no cost option), but I figure I can always buy them later and the dealer is going to sort me out a good price.

All I have to do now is sell my (ex)beloved R32.

Will post again once I've picked it up...


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## fastasflip (May 13, 2003)

Dare I ask how much servicing costs, I'm looking for a different car and although I couldn't stretch to a CSL, an M3 could be in my price bracket. Parts/ servicing dependent


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

fastasflip said:


> Dare I ask how much servicing costs, I'm looking for a different car and although I couldn't stretch to a CSL, an M3 could be in my price bracket. Parts/ servicing dependent


As I understand it, CSL servicing is comparable to an M3 in terms of both time, intervals and parts costs. Take a look at www.bm3w.co.uk for specifics.


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

b3ves said:


> Unfortunately, it hasn't got the cup alloys/tyres (19" M3 alloys were a no cost option), but I figure I can always buy them later and the dealer is going to sort me out a good price.


Fair play, you don't need those tyres until you want to go on track, and you don't want them for everyday driving. The tread on the cup tyres looks like its been pecked on by an asthmatic sparrow, wouldn't want to drive in the wet with those on


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## jonno (May 7, 2002)

Rob 
Good news - but you might want to check with the dealer as I think the OEM 19" CSL alloys are a tad pricey.
[- listed as $555 each on www.realoem.com]


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## Jazzedout (May 8, 2002)

So, today it's 30 of June! Waiting for pics! 8)


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## jonno (May 7, 2002)

Yeah - come on Rob, sure its not raining that much in BS1?

Maybe he's out having too much fun


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

Sorry guys, was too busy trying to earn money to pay for it!

Here are the first pictures - apologies for the poor quality, but I found it hard to drool and focus at the same time 

- I hate it already, not


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

I used to like you. [smiley=sick2.gif]


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## jonno (May 7, 2002)

I hate being @ work when fotki is a barred site :x 
I take it its looking sexy by the susp. bridge or something ??
8)


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

b3ves said:


> The one I test drove this morning was awesome so I've bitten the bullet and given the dealer a deposit. It's exactly a year old and has only done 2800 miles, with no sign of scrubbed tyres to indicate track use and a couple of very small stone chips on the front spoiler to re-assure that it hasn't been resprayed (dealer will now touch-in).
> 
> Unfortunately, it hasn't got the cup alloys/tyres (19" M3 alloys were a no cost option), but I figure I can always buy them later and the dealer is going to sort me out a good price.
> 
> ...


F*ck it, I'm selling the Evo....I don't need it anymore. When you're next ragging the Exige round the track I'm off to raid your garage and use one of your "hardly ever used, one fastidious owner" cars :roll:

PS: I thought you were buying a CSL?


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

jonno said:


> I hate being @ work when fotki is a barred site :x
> I take it its looking sexy by the susp. bridge or something ??
> 8)


No, those will come later - just the snaps I took at the dealership when I picked it up


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

Stu-Oxfordshire said:


> PS: I thought you were buying a CSL?


Those are my 'street' wheels 

Set of CSL Cup alloys + tyres negotiated at ~cost price and to be ordered just as soon as I get the money for my (just sold) spare Exige wheels and my (soon to be sold) R32 Milltek exhaust


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Looks stunning Rob 8)

Make sure you give us a full write up once you've covered a few miles


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Just heard a raucous noise outside, so i jumped up to see what it was and there was Mr Beves pulling into his garage (i preusme after picking it up?)!

It looks and sounds fantastic Rob! You've got me looking through Top Marques at M3 Cabs now!


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Nice one Rob. Looks good. What tyres does it run if it doesn't have the semi-slick michelins?


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

Some more pictures


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> Nice one Rob. Looks good. What tyres does it run if it doesn't have the semi-slick michelins?


Contis


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

roc888 said:


> If you are like me who cannot live without the luxuries such as air con, leather seats, xenon lights decent sound system etc, buy an M3.


Mine has aircon, alcantara seats, BMW Business CD sound, xenons, rain sensor and parking distance control. Apart from that it's really hardcore


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

b3ves said:


> Some more pictures


That tree has seen a fair selection of cars over the last 5 years


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

Stu-Oxfordshire said:


> That tree has seen a fair selection of cars over the last 5 years


Yeah, hopefully better ones as time's gone by


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## Jazzedout (May 8, 2002)

Great Car! 8) How are the brakes compared to the standard M3? Are they the same?


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

Jazzedout said:


> Great Car! 8) How are the brakes compared to the standard M3? Are they the same?


Cheers  
The CSL has uprated brakes with cross-drilled and inner-vented 345mm front discs versus 325mm for the std M3. I've heard that they are better than the std brakes but are still not up to extensive track work. BMW M supply an uprated Pagid brake pad, but a number of owners have also gone for AP brakes.

I may change the pads, but I won't be taking it on track enough to bother modding the brakes.


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## himpe (Jun 11, 2002)

Simply awesome ! 8)

Is it the fastest car you've ever had ?


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

himpe said:


> Simply awesome ! 8)
> 
> Is it the fastest car you've ever had ?


LAPTIMES - Nordschleife (20.832km)

BMW M3 GTR Schnitzer (11/2002) 7:12.25
Radical SR3 Turbo ( 7/2003) 7.19 (7:26 road tyres link???)
Porsche Carrera GT ( 9/2004) 7:32.44 (22.835km circuit)
TechArt-Porsche GT street ( 8/2001) 7:43 
Pagani Zonda S ( 7/2002) 7:44 
Porsche 911 GT2 ( 6/2001) 7:46 
Porsche 911 GT3 RS ( 3/2004) 7:47 
Porsche 911 GT3 Cup ( 2/1999) 7:49 
Lamborghini MurciÃ©lago ( 6/2002) 7:50 
_*BMW M3 CSL ( 8/2003) 7:50*_
Mercedes SLR McLaren ( 6/2004) 7:52 
Nissan Skyline GT-R R34 (???) 7:52 (Unofficial)
Lamborghini Gallardo (12/2003) 7:52 
Porsche 911 GT3 ( 6/2003) 7:54 
Ferrari Challenge Stradale ( 2/2004) 7:56
Porsche 911 Turbo ( 6/2000) 7:56

Sure is


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## Jazzedout (May 8, 2002)

b3ves said:


> Jazzedout said:
> 
> 
> > Great Car! 8) How are the brakes compared to the standard M3? Are they the same?
> ...


That's why I asked. I drove a standard M3 on a nice twisty road (downihll) and I thought that the brakes could be better! :? I am really wondering why BMW never puts 4-pots or even 6-pots to their larger/faster cars. Even the new M6 has a rather simplistic brake setup. Although it has large discs, I believe the calipers can't cope with spirited driving. :?


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

Jazzedout said:


> b3ves said:
> 
> 
> > Jazzedout said:
> ...


I guess that the fact that the CSL weighs about 200kg less than the M3 must help the brakes as well....


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## Jazzedout (May 8, 2002)

b3ves said:


> I guess that the fact that the CSL weighs about 200kg less than the M3 must help the brakes as well....


Sure, less weight and bigger brakes = better performance.

Waiting for track impressions!


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

These laps times are nonsense.

I'm sure you did 7:53 in the Murcielago and 7:30 in the Carrera GT?


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

Carlos said:


> These laps times are nonsense.
> 
> I'm sure you did 7:53 in the Murcielago and 7:30 in the Carrera GT?


Ha ha.

Don't ask me whose lap times they are - I got them from a search on Nordschleife road car lap times


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

I still haven't had a chance to give it a decent run, but this Saturday I'm taking kmpowell down to Exeter to pick up his Trevor and the following weekend I'm taking it to Hethel, which is about 230 miles away.

I promise to post a 'review' afterwards, but in the meantime for those who like carbon fibre (not plastic) here's a picture of the heart of the car


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Can't help but notice it appears to be 2 cylinders short, fella... :lol:


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> Can't help but notice it appears to be 2 cylinders short, fella... :lol:


Yeah, and about 350kg :lol:


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## himpe (Jun 11, 2002)

jampott said:


> Can't help but notice it appears to be 2 cylinders short, fella... :lol:


How hard is it to count to 6 ... :? 
I'll send my nephew round, he'll teach you ! He just leared how to count to 20 :wink:

cheers :wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

b3ves said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > Can't help but notice it appears to be 2 cylinders short, fella... :lol:
> ...


That only equals a couple of pie eaters :lol:

& it's sadly lacking a couple of rather large turbochargers :lol:

I'd best shut up now as it/he would woop my ass on the track. Back under my rock me thinks. Is defo a stunning car Rob.

Ps. More REAL carbon fibre than you could shake a stick at. That's if you don't count your bonnet :wink:

http://www.tyresmoke.net/gallery/albut47/Audi_RS6_22
http://www.tyresmoke.net/gallery/albut47/RS6_Coolers002


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> Ps. More REAL carbon fibre than you could shake a stick at. That's if you don't count your bonnet :wink:


Yeah, that's aluminium and the boot's plastic


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## stephengreen (May 6, 2002)

b3ves said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Ps. More REAL carbon fibre than you could shake a stick at. That's if you don't count your bonnet :wink:
> ...


 But where does the parrot sit? :wink:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

stephengreen said:


> b3ves said:
> 
> 
> > W7 PMC said:
> ...


He's getting his own TVR... :-*


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

b3ves said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Ps. More REAL carbon fibre than you could shake a stick at. That's if you don't count your bonnet :wink:
> ...


Rob,

I must be getting a little confused (nowt new their). What are the CSL body panels made of?? I thought the bonnet & roof were C/F & the others were regular steel. I know the RS6 has aluminium bonnet & front wings, but the rest are standard steel.


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> b3ves said:
> 
> 
> > W7 PMC said:
> ...


The roof and front bumper + supports are made of carbon fibre reinforced plastic.

The bonnet is made of aluminium.

The rear boot is made of a sheet moulding (polymer) compound.

The rear bumper and supports are made of glass fibre reinforced plastic, with a bit of carbon fibre between the exhaust tailpipes.


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