# animal torture



## LB (May 14, 2002)

*MODERATOR WARNING: The link in this post contains VERY upsetting graphic images and video. warning added by kmpowell*

I don't agree with everything Peta stand for, but this is very very wrong. I'm afraid I had to stop watching after seeing the first animal still writhing in agony after being skinned alive.

http://www.peta2.com/takecharge/swf/fur_farm.swf

If you would like to show your disgust at this then it may be worthwhile writing a letter/e-mail and attach the link and send to your MP/MEP. The link to find the MP details is here http://www.europarl.org.uk/uk_meps/MembersMain.htm


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Very bad indeed. Made me sick. 

I think this guy doing it was worse than animal.


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

watched the first 10 seconds that was more than enough


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

I have just forced myself to watch this video all the way through and I am not ashamed to say that I am currently sat here in floods of tears.

Even if it is occuring in unprogressed countries (it looks like eastern europe or the far east?) where they are still 'behind the times', there is still no excuse for anything like that. I didn't think that animal cruelty of such a high magnitude still went on in todays world.

Truly horrific.


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## GoingTTooFast (Apr 4, 2006)

I wouldn't mind skinning that bastard alive. :evil:


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## LB (May 14, 2002)

My wife watched the whole video and was also in tears. I happened to catch the part with the dog being skinned; the look of terror in his eyes and what did standing on his throat acheive?

I'm normally a fairly calm person, but the amount of rage I felt as I watched this was almost overwhelming. I dread to think what would have happened if I had personally witnessed this; I would suspect I would be rotting in some foreign jail for murder.

It's a disgusting trade fuelled by disgusting people who want to wear fur; however let's assume that these people are only doing a 'job' to earn money to feed their families - can we excuse them? I can't, but what makes it worse is that these animals aren't even killed first, they are just left to die in agony.

My wife has already sent this to our local MP, our MEP and Tony Blair.


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## GoingTTooFast (Apr 4, 2006)

Unfortunately this world is populated by people who will do unspeakable things, for whatever 'justification' they see fit. It always has done and it always will do. When man has got the capacity to do this to fellow humans - look at the hostage beheadings in Iraq,which are gruesome in the extreme - then it's not surprising the contempt people are capable of treating animals with.

Likewise with that bloke on this video, there doesn't appear to be an *ounce* of compassion in him, and if you've ever seen seal cubs being clubbed to death with Ice picks. disgusting.

As long as mankind has got this trait these things will continue.

I'm not a particularlty religious person, but If anyone's got it right I hope it's the Buddhists, and the laws of Karma mean these evil bastards come back on the wrong end of one of these knives.

-- edited to say sorry for rambling but I've had a drink and I've got one on me now after seeing this! :evil: --


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## zorg (Apr 25, 2006)

well i *cant *watch this stuff but im sure i know how bad it is. i accidentally watched someone skin a dog alive(dont know if its the same one).

they stopped the film before it got too graphic, i just cant work out why they dont kill the animals first????????

we are a pithetic species :evil:


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

zorg said:


> well i *cant *watch this stuff but im sure i know how bad it is. i accidentally watched someone skin a dog alive(dont know if its the same one).
> 
> they stopped the film before it got too graphic, i just cant work out why they dont kill the animals first????????
> 
> we are a pithetic species :evil:


It looks like these are very poor people with only a knife to skin the animals. But again I believe they are sadist. It is so easy to kill an animal instantly, but either they don't know how or they take pleasure to see it suffer.

I have seen people killing animals, but never skinning them alive. This is just disgusting.


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## Donners (Mar 24, 2005)

Can't even click the button, I know I wouldn't get the images out of my head for such a long time. Even just hearing the things from what you have said makes me feel upset and extremely angry.

The only thing I've watched like this was a vegitarian protest video on an album and that doesn't even sound as bad.

I hate some people passionately!


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

I aint clicking the link as even the advert witht he bears being badly treat winds me up (I never give to people charities but support a fair few animal ones).

However, to equal things out in a tiny way, my Dogs been mistreating me for 11 years and continued to do so today as he nicked my lunch off my desk which i got from the deli in the village when I wasnt looking.

All i saw was an empty plate and a dog licking his lips with a *'What?' *expression on his face. Git.


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## KenTT (Feb 20, 2005)

Kevin, I would like to thank you for adding the warning.

I have NOT watched the video as it would sicken me for the rest of the day, I can only to well picture the content from the reaction of the other posts I have read.

Itâ€™s a shame that as the intelligent species on this planet that we share with other creatures, all we do is act in an irresponsible and unintelligent way. I wonder how people like this sleep at night.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

KenTT said:


> Kevin, I would like to thank you for adding the warning.
> 
> I have NOT watched the video as it would sicken me for the rest of the day, I can only to well picture the content from the reaction of the other posts I have read.
> 
> Itâ€™s a shame that as the intelligent species on this planet that we share with other creatures, all we do is act in an irresponsible and unintelligent way. I wonder how people like this sleep at night.


Agree. And head in sand or not, i also don't think that sort of stuff should be posted here in the first place. :?

Poor poor taste.


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## LB (May 14, 2002)

garyc said:


> Agree. And head in sand or not, i also don't think that sort of stuff should be posted here in the first place. :?
> 
> Poor poor taste.


Why exactly? ignoring this stuff doesn't mean it stops happening.


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## CH_Peter (May 16, 2002)

garyc said:


> KenTT said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin, I would like to thank you for adding the warning.
> ...


It's not here for amusement, but to educate - so I don't see how it's a matter of taste? The more people are aware, the better.


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## GoingTTooFast (Apr 4, 2006)

garyc said:


> KenTT said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin, I would like to thank you for adding the warning.
> ...


So if we don't see it it's not happening then? Its a good job we didn't think like that when it came to Kosovo in 1999, or Sierra Leone in 2000, or the ethiopean famines, or sudan. You can't just ignore things and they go away.

People need to be aware of what is happening in the world, and as CH_Peter says, the more people that are aware of this happening the better.


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## Donners (Mar 24, 2005)

CH_Peter said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > KenTT said:
> ...


Have to agree here.
My first thought was annoyance at this sort of thing being on the site, it is 
the sort of thing that strongly effects me. However it does have a big 
warning and I made sure to read others comments, to see if I should 
watch. I didn't!

I do agree that alot of people are unaware of this sort of going on, 
unfortunately sometimes the only way to show the full extent of it and
educate people is show it first hand. :?

I have no objection to it being here but I will never watch it!


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

CH_Peter said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > KenTT said:
> ...


OK, I'll try another tack. I don't _need_ to see images of burned people to know that the Holocaust happened and was a Very Bad Thing. I'd find them distasteful - as I would find images animal torture, violent porn etc.

I do not wish to see them on this site. They are worse than porn, which itself is not tolerated. I cannot bring myself to look at the link so that is OK and my choice. But it is not necessary in my view to have that hosted in this place to make a point at which everyone sane can only but agree with. Therefore it is pointless for educated people and firmly in the realms of unecessary shock and horror.

Carry on educating and informing the uneducated here - I guess there must be a few around. I do like to think that most people here do have enough education to _know_ the realities and not to have to look at that sort of stuff for anything apart from feeding their own revolting fascinations. Their choice.

Child torture vids next? Or can I post the pics from rotten.com of the USAF guy whose head has been severed by a helicopter rotor, and do this under the guise of educating about the horrors of war in the Gulf?


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## Donners (Mar 24, 2005)

Point taken.

I suppose I keep coming back to this one to see other peoples views about it being on here.

Not so sure now.


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## CH_Peter (May 16, 2002)

garyc said:


> CH_Peter said:
> 
> 
> > garyc said:
> ...


It depends on the intention of the person posting. In this case, it's not to shock. If you post pictures/links to the soldier decapitated by the rotor blades, I would suggest that's only to shock as, IMHO, it has no informative value.


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## LB (May 14, 2002)

I didn't start this thread for some disgusting fascination, I did it because I felt outraged that this stuff is still going on in 2006 and because I felt helpless that I can do little to stop it.

I'm not forcing anyone to click the link, but I do think the link is needed and I say this because I beleive the reality is far worse than what we may imagine happens.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Condemnation of a shocking video that was already known to be highly shocking by the original poster, and without taking any action, adds up to little more than self-righteousness.

The real question, what are you ALL actually going to DO about it? Apart from post unanimous and bleeding obvious agreement about "How shocking it all is" on a car based internet chat room?

Perhaps discuss it over a latte when you are out shopping tomorrow? Then you can condemn it again.


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## LB (May 14, 2002)

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this was a flame room that meant I could post things that need flaming, I didn't realise we were only allowed to post trivial things. I've already said what I've done, written to my local MP, MEP and Tony. I've also donated to Petas campaign. My frustration is that this is all I can do Or perhaps I can raise awareness by posting it on a forum, but then I guess that's what you are objecting to. If I could only post this thread on an 'animal rights' forum then it wouldn't be reaching out to many people, would it?


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

LB said:


> Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this was a flame room that meant I could post things that need flaming, I didn't realise we were only allowed to post trivial things. I've already said what I've done, written to my local MP, MEP and Tony. I've also donated to Petas campaign. *My frustration is that this is all I can do *Or perhaps I can raise awareness by posting it on a forum, but then I guess that's what you are objecting to. If I could only post this thread on an 'animal rights' forum then it wouldn't be reaching out to many people, would it?


.....well you could devote the rest of your life to stamping this practice out if you _really_ wanted to.

If you can dial out of self righteous mode for one moment, there is no disagreement on the flame subject itself or context, merely the _content_ that accompanies it.

Maybe that's the only way you feel that you can educate and inform the readers out there, and that 'Someone has to do it'.

I disagree.

_Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells_.


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## LB (May 14, 2002)

I don't think I am being self righteous; but if you want to get your point across don't make stupid remarks like "Perhaps discuss it over a latte when you are out shopping tomorrow?"

Has it made you do anything about it? If you agree with the flame and are as equally disgusted then I assume you'll be writing to your MP as well.

I still think the flame needs the content, the choice needs to be there. No words can describe what it shows.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

LB said:


> I don't think I am being self righteous; but if you want to get your point across don't make stupid remarks like "Perhaps discuss it over a latte when you are out shopping tomorrow?"
> 
> Has it made you do anything about it? If you agree with the flame and are as equally disgusted then I assume you'll be writing to your MP as well.
> 
> I still think the flame needs the content, the choice needs to be there. No words can describe what it shows.


Assuage my feelings of revulsion by writing to my MP? Maybe a small donation to charity before continuing our middle classed existences? Right.

That was the point of my 'stupid comments'.

What I do or don't do is my business, but then I am not the one getting all puffed up about a bleeding obvious 'flame' that anyone would have to be a brain-damaged moron or the victim of a cruel medical experiment, to disagree with in any shape or form. The media that you support your rightful indignation with is just not necessary for an intelligent and erudite person to have to use in order to make a perfectly valid point.

Tell you what I'll email (my MP) him from a wireless hot spot in the Mall.

You may view my comments as stupid, just as I view your sentiment as puffed up. I do however respect your right to knowingly post revolting videos to make a point for which you can't adequately find the words to express.

Just as you should respect my view that it was wholly unecessary in the first place and completely avoidable. And we are lucky and thankful that we do have more choice than those wretched creatures.

Nuff said.


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## LB (May 14, 2002)

right, so we shouldn't talk about it then because it's "bleeding obvious" that we all disagree with animal cruelty? and by not talking about it what happens, nothing. OK, so it appears you think that writing to my MP and giving a donation (or regular donations) won't acheive anything; in that case please do tell me what you think would work better, discuss it with friends over a coffee perhaps?

I feel neither self righteous nor "puffed up" about the fur trade issue. Again, I don't think the video was avoidable; I could have written something, people would have read it and forgotten it in no time but I would argue that you won't forget watching the video and if that makes people investigate how they could help stop the fur trade then the awareness has been raised.

If you don't want to see reality then you don't look.


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## Irish Sancho (Mar 13, 2006)

Why don't sheep shrink when it rains?


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

LB said:


> right, so we shouldn't talk about it then because it's "bleeding obvious" that we all disagree with animal cruelty? and by not talking about it what happens, nothing. OK, so it appears you think that writing to my MP and giving a donation (or regular donations) won't acheive anything; in that case please do tell me what you think would work better, discuss it with friends over a coffee perhaps?
> 
> I feel neither self righteous nor "puffed up" about the fur trade issue. Again, I don't think the video was avoidable; I could have written something, people would have read it and forgotten it in no time but I would argue that you won't forget watching the video and if that makes people investigate how they could help stop the fur trade then the awareness has been raised.
> 
> If you don't want to see reality then you don't look.


Well judging by the healthy debate that has ensued about the issue, let's consider awareness duly raised and people poised for action spurned on by an unavoidable video posting. Your work is done.

Will you perchance be tackling the Holcaust, war in general or child poverty in future postings? I dread to think what videos you will have to unavoidably post to raise awareness.

Many intelliegent people know reality without having to look at gory moving pictures.


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## LB (May 14, 2002)

Oh well I'm glad you're speaking for all the 'intelligent people' then. My apologies to all the intelligent people for bringing this to your attention. pathetic.

I think all the other things you rattled off in your patronising list get plenty of covergage in the media anyway. Maybe if the BBC showed images of what happens if you get shot or blown up then people may be less hasty in thinking military action is an easy option.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

LB said:


> Oh well I'm glad you're speaking for all the 'intelligent people' then. My apologies to all the intelligent people for bringing this to your attention. pathetic.
> 
> I think all the other things you rattled off in your patronising list get plenty of covergage in the media anyway. *Maybe if the BBC showed images of what happens if you get shot or blown up then people may be less hasty in thinking military action is an easy option*.


Hmmm. I think you'll find that in most countries including the US, news images are already far more graphic than in UK. The US are as trigger happy as ever...

I speak for no one but myself.

Patronising list? That's a bit rich and possibly insulting to others. Just consider that for a moment the next time you post a gore fest to illustrate a point that you are ineloquent enough to do using mere words.

Maybe for counterpoint and balance we could source a video of the animal rights activists digging up and stealing that dead old lady's body? You know just in case people support the wrong activist bunch having been spurned to action by your educational video.

Pathetic indeed.


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## LB (May 14, 2002)

and possibly you are being a little insulting by assuming that only those people outside of your 'intelligent' group would want to see the video.

Look, you think words would have been better, I think the video gives more impact, we disagree on the content but I think we agree on the topic. So, instead of moaning about it to me why don't you help stop it? As you have implied, you are the eloquent one so if you write a letter to your MP or perhaps even the Chinese government (where this video was taken) then it may have an impact.

I don't want to get into another argument, but this topic was about the fur industry, something which has no beneficial product or by-product. This has not been a discussion about animal testing for medicine nor about the group of people who commit criminal acts in the name of animal rights. Talking about those in this context would be totally irrelevant.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

garyc said:


> The real question, what are you ALL actually going to DO about it? Apart from post unanimous and bleeding obvious agreement about "How shocking it all is" on a car based internet chat room?
> 
> Perhaps discuss it over a latte when you are out shopping tomorrow? Then you can condemn it again.


Well, as I cant physically do anything about it as I have a family to look after and bring up and the usual trials of life instead I entrust others who have the time and energy with my vote and financial backing.

Im a member of and/or support with contributions and adoptions:

Monkey World (on Animal Planet 'Monkey Business')
WSPA
Chester Zoo
World Wildlife Fund

Been to Chester Zoo today, Although many Zoo's are awful places Chester Zoo is extremely modern and well managed and they do excellent work in conservation.

I had a latte there, in fact we spent a fair amount of money which I know will go towards an organisation that makes a difference to animals around the world.

Theres not a lot more I can do. I back these organisations politically by adding my name and vote to their causes whenever asked. Unfortunately life dictates that we cant all become active animal rights campaigners and so I have to trust that these organsations do the right thing, and I believe they do as I didnt pick them at random, and give them what they need most. Money and the backing of my (registered) public opinion.

If I was a millionaire I wouldnt work and would give my time, unfortunately I am not and as much as I care about the animals and the shite way humans treat them, the well being and happiness of my family comes 1st.

I havent watched this video, I neither want or need to. An episode of Monkey Business is enough to annoy and enthuse me.

If people want to do something believe me, these organisations welcome every penny and every name with open arms, it does make a difference and it does help. Imagine if 60 million people in the UK all joined WWF or WSAP. I think Animal Welfare would become a major political issue and lets face it, for real change, you need Government leverage!

On a lighter note, some pics from Chester Zoo today!

How anyone could be cruel to any of these guys ill never know...


























The reason I havent got time to go off being an active campaigner (with the In Laws) 









Last to leave, well nearly! It is a car forum after all :wink:


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## Guy (May 13, 2002)

Before becoming 'disgusted of Tunbridge Wells' I would want to know where and when the video was taken.


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## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

Fucking sick and disgusting.

I also agree that a link direct to the video should not have been posted. A better approach would have been your views/concerns/fix and then a link just to the main site.

FFS, what next? :?


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

As we discuss animal cruelty I heard this today from a friend who has been on holidays in Tanzania.

They pluck the feathers of the chicken BEFORE they kill it as they believe it is easier to do it. In the case of the chicken, it goes mad screaming at the beginning and then it seems to go into shock mode and doesn't move or do anything despite being alive. I am sure the meat will not taste that good as when animals are under severe stress they release hormones in their bodies that affects how the meat tastes.

Having said this above, could it be that the people in this video have the same belief that they can skin an animal better when alive? :?

I would also suggest that this is only the tip of the iceberg. Things are considered cruel in developed countries, could be daily routines in developing countries or similar.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

vlastan said:


> As we discuss animal cruelty I heard this today from a friend who has been on holidays in Tanzania.
> 
> They pluck the feathers of the chicken BEFORE they kill it as they believe it is easier to do it. In the case of the chicken, it goes mad screaming at the beginning and then it seems to go into shock mode and doesn't move or do anything despite being alive. I am sure the meat will not taste that good as when animals are under severe stress they release hormones in their bodies that affects how the meat tastes.
> 
> ...


Is there a video available to educate one?


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Leg said:


> Monkey World (on Animal Planet 'Monkey Business')


Ditto. I support them to, and I also sponsor prog's at Bristol Zoo for their captive breeding prog's.

This Leg is a wonderful 'Orang' image to see:









Bristol Zoo have recently had a Gorilla baby in their breeding prog, but unfortunately the mother went blind during the birth, so it's proven to be complicated in the little one's upbringing. So far so good though, and the mother is doing wonders all things considered.


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## kebabman (Jun 24, 2006)

That first vid was horrible, bloody savages. :x

Have to say I do agree with controlled 'humane' animal testing for medical purposes though, anyone who disagrees shouldn't be allowed treatment that has been derived from animal research. Courage of your convictions and all that. Have a lot of trouble with protestors here in Oxford and they have really hardened my view towards them through their actions.

Thanks for the nice pics at the end of this thread, cheered me up after the vid.


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## LB (May 14, 2002)

kebabman said:


> That first vid was horrible, bloody savages. :x
> 
> Have to say I do agree with controlled 'humane' animal testing for medical purposes though, anyone who disagrees shouldn't be allowed treatment that has been derived from animal research. Courage of your convictions and all that. Have a lot of trouble with protestors here in Oxford and they have really hardened my view towards them through their actions.
> 
> Thanks for the nice pics at the end of this thread, cheered me up after the vid.


the animal testing thing is a whole other debate and I'm not sure I want to get into it after this 'fur trade' thread! I think you are right, controlled 'humane' testing for NEW medical treatments can be argued for, however some review is needed. The recent incident in the news were the human testers nearly died were using drugs that had been passed through the animal test phase.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

kmpowell said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> > Monkey World (on Animal Planet 'Monkey Business')
> ...


Those Orangs (there were 2 around 1 and one around 3 years of age, were doing roly polys down the little hill while the older ones watched on from the shade of some hessian sacks they were using as umbrellas.


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