# Hesitant downshift on the TTRS



## NardoTtrs (Oct 7, 2017)

I absolutely hate the way the gearbox hesitates when driving in sports or dynamic and you suddenly floor it when cruising. The gearbox hesitates so badly that it really seems like there is a mechanical problem by the way it reacts. Audi dealer says Audi is aware of the problem, but that it is normal in that car.

Anybody else experiences this?


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## moro anis (May 27, 2010)

I have experienced hesitation as you say when you floor it while cruising but then it seems to leap forward like a big cat pouncing. Not really an issue. Doesn't seem to happen with the paddles ie gear lever over in sports mode. 
Didn't realise it was an issue Audi are aware of. I'll watch this space


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## Pugliese (Aug 4, 2010)

NardoTtrs said:


> I absolutely hate the way the gearbox hesitates when driving in sports or dynamic and you suddenly floor it when cruising. The gearbox hesitates so badly that it really seems like there is a mechanical problem by the way it reacts. Audi dealer says Audi is aware of the problem, but that it is normal in that car.
> 
> Anybody else experiences this?


Normal??? I got this pathetic excuse from the dealer. Mind you I am not convinced it is the gearbox alone and that it is the ecu programming/turbo lag. I find that the major problem is that you are driving in D, say 7th gear and decide on an overtake. you have two options, kickdown which works relatively well producing the 'pounce effect', or change into S and then the hesitation kicks in. On occasions it is positively dangerous and it is on that basis it is going back to Audi and I will attempt to escalate the matter by threatening rejection of the car (thanks to Debonair for that idea). Now just waiting for an appointment (bit like the doctors around here :roll: )


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## ross_t_boss (Feb 28, 2017)

I've read quite a few negative reviews about the gearbox software now. It seems to be very specific to the TT RS which is odd, it's a very close relation to the 'box in my mrs 7.5R which seems to do well in Sport mode.

I'm interested to see if Audi has any plan to release an update to address it, but I've already got an expectation that I'll be paying a 3rd party to map it. I've tentatively looked at TVS Engineering, they seem to the authority on all things DSG.


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## digital_dreamer (Aug 28, 2011)

i miss not having the pops and cracks in any mode other than S.


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## falconmick (Mar 12, 2018)

Whilst you shouldn't have to pay to sort the problem out, anyone considered a DSG remap? 
Although no personal experience Golf 7R owners speak highly of such a mod.


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

The thing that really bugs me with this gearbox is the slow and slurry manual upshifts when driving normally.

mk2 gearbox was much better in this regard.


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## digital_dreamer (Aug 28, 2011)

powerplay said:


> The thing that really bugs me with this gearbox is the slow and slurry manual upshifts when driving normally.
> 
> mk2 gearbox was much better in this regard.


I agree and find myself driving round more and more in S mode because of it.


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## Pugliese (Aug 4, 2010)

digital_dreamer said:


> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> > The thing that really bugs me with this gearbox is the slow and slurry manual upshifts when driving normally.
> ...


We call it Lexus Mode :? - but appointment now booked for the 16th and I will be giving them the one chance to repair or replace under the Consumer Rights Act as the product is unfit for purpose and probably not as described (hardly an RS product!).


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## RuuTT (Apr 22, 2010)

There have been a few software updates for the DSG in the TTRS, do tend to help a little


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

RuuTT said:


> There have been a few software updates for the DSG in the TTRS, do tend to help a little


Have there?

I am only aware of a single update (the one dealing with cold starts and removing the dynamic pops). This did nothing to address the sluggish upshifts when not requesting 15%+ engine power.

What other updates are there? Can you provide references as my dealer knows of no others.


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## digital_dreamer (Aug 28, 2011)

Mine is my18 without the pops


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## RuuTT (Apr 22, 2010)

powerplay said:


> Have there?
> 
> I am only aware of a single update (the one dealing with cold starts and removing the dynamic pops). This did nothing to address the sluggish upshifts when not requesting 15%+ engine power.
> 
> What other updates are there? Can you provide references as my dealer knows of no others.


Yes this a more recent one, specifically for the gearbox. Seperate from the dreaded pop-and-bangs update. I'll try to find out a number or reference for it. It is specifically to improve the downshifts and specifically for the TTRS so that should both be in the description somewhere. It did not mention anything on improving upshifts by the way so that probably won't be impacted.


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

RuuTT said:


> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> > Have there?
> ...


That'd be appreciated, thank you. Have you had the update?

Odd as I actually hadn't noticed any problem with the downshifts :?


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## Pugliese (Aug 4, 2010)

powerplay said:


> What other updates are there? Can you provide references as my dealer knows of no others.


Can I ask which dealer, just in case we are talking to the same one. I currently use T Wells.


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

Pugliese said:


> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> > What other updates are there? Can you provide references as my dealer knows of no others.
> ...


Closest to me is Eastbourne, last time I checked they only had the [infamous] one on their system as applicable to my car.


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## Pugliese (Aug 4, 2010)

powerplay said:


> Pugliese said:
> 
> 
> > powerplay said:
> ...


OK, I'll try and find out what is available from T/Wells and report back


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## ross_t_boss (Feb 28, 2017)

I heard back from TVS. I think I need to go back to them with more specific requirements to confirm if they can cater to expectations.

Their preference is to have someone take a car to them in NL and apply the map; they can then personalise behaviour in terms of shift points in each mode etc and of course try and persuade one to double down and do the ECU map at the same time. I'm only really interested in their DSG 'drivability' software which can be offered remotely.

In the UK they recommend STA (Aylesbury). What they suggested is getting a car to them for 1-2 days so they can have the custom map applied and tested. Anyone then wanting the same map applied could have it done by STA or they can offer a flash tool on loan for those who are more technical.

If there is already an DSG map on the car for torque (e.g. MRC), I get the impression they need it taken to STA so they can modify existing binaries to keep any mods already applied. Not specially mentioned but implied.

So, when I get my car, if the DSG is annoying and MRC can't offer a full 'drivability' DSG map I am tempted to go down this road if nobody else has by then. It'll be about £450, annoying, but if it can make it behave more like a PDK then worth it IMO.

In the mean time - anyone want to spell out the behaviours that piss them off, on top of that already mentioned in this thread? I'll put a reply together seeing if they can confirm if their map will resolve them.


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

I had a look at their UK dealers and there's one literally just a few miles from me in Hailsham. I was hoping that anything I wanted doing could be applied there - not in just one preferential dealer miles away - and definitely not overseas!!

I'll summarise my issues:

Everything applies to Manual mode:
1. Most annoying is the lag/delay/slur on upshift, I want it to behave all the time like it does when accelerating with at least 15%+ power, no matter what my right foot is doing, even lifted off. If I click the paddle, just shift quick and immediately regardless.

2. Lower the "minimum speed" allowed before upshifting to next gear to be the same as that for auto downshifting.

3. Probably included in above however will state anyway, allow me to change from 1st to 2nd as soon as car is rolling at 2mph, currently you have to exceed 7mph before it allows you to get 2nd.

4. Less important but still frickin annoying, remove the over-eagerness to dip the clutch when lifted off. Eg, when crawling in traffic and in manual mode 2nd gear revs <1500, if I lift off it very quickly drops to idle. The only time I want the clutch to dip is when I'm braking and it's necessary to prevent stalling - otherwise, leave the sodding clutch alone and let me engine-brake or maintain road speed with a light throttle if I want to without the constant dipping and then slipping of the clutch when I reapply throttle.

I hope APR hurry up and release their software, keen to see if they do anything with the TCU or just tweak the torque limits like everyone else.


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## jabiqq (Apr 24, 2016)

Quite strange to see these issues with DSG on TTRS. On my standard TT, the DSG box was okay for normal driving except for pulling out at junctions, that was easily solved by changing to S mode. Since doing a Revo DSG map, I can`t really fault it.


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## TTRS Taff (Jun 10, 2009)

Pugliese said:


> NardoTtrs said:
> 
> 
> > I absolutely hate the way the gearbox hesitates when driving in sports or dynamic and you suddenly floor it when cruising. The gearbox hesitates so badly that it really seems like there is a mechanical problem by the way it reacts. Audi dealer says Audi is aware of the problem, but that it is normal in that car.
> ...


I've had the exact same problem today. I went to over take another car and put it in sport put my foot down and it was almost like I had no power for 2 seconds then it just went into full power. It's not the 1st time it has happened and never done it on my previous RS .. I too thought it was a mechanical fault.. I'm going to speak to my dealer next week about it.


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## Pugliese (Aug 4, 2010)

TTRS Taff said:


> Pugliese said:
> 
> 
> > NardoTtrs said:
> ...


Taff let us know how you get on. Mine is now booked in but not until the 30th. Albeit probably a waste of time I am also going to raise the issue through Audi Customer Services.

Which dealer will you go to? Mine is Tunbridge Wells


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## NardoTtrs (Oct 7, 2017)

On my visit to Audi to highlight this problem......,it was tested and it was agreed that the important hesitation is there, but it was explained that it's a characteristic of the dual clutch wanting to downshift 2 gears when throttle is "downed" whilst in dynamic or sports, causing it to lag for 2 seconds whilst it selects 2 lower gears. 
In be honest I am not convinced and really nags me every time it happens! Feedback from other guys experiencing the same problem and Audi's explanations would be appreciated.


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

I never drive mine like this; if I want to accelerate, go for an overtake etc I will always be in manual and control selecting the gear I want in conjunction with the throttle. I'll always downshift first before planting it.

Next time I'm out though I'll put it in S and then just try planting my foot and report back how it behaves.


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## TTRS Taff (Jun 10, 2009)

My dealer is in Swansea Pugliese , so I will let you know how i get on. If lots of people put this forward to the dealerships, hopefully Audi will do something about it. If it's a characteristic of the car, caan't understand why it wasn't happening on my other RS ..it should be better on the new models not worse


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

NardoTtrs said:


> On my visit to Audi to highlight this problem......,it was tested and it was agreed that the important hesitation is there, but it was explained that it's a characteristic of the dual clutch wanting to downshift 2 gears when throttle is "downed" whilst in dynamic or sports, causing it to lag for 2 seconds whilst it selects 2 lower gears.
> In be honest I am not convinced and really nags me every time it happens! Feedback from other guys experiencing the same problem and Audi's explanations would be appreciated.


That's an interesting comment and reminded me of one of the elements in the 24DK software update campaign; the update that removes the pops and bangs.

That element says: *Reduction of shift time by approx. 1 second for kickdown gearshifts with high gear differences on the same partial gearbox*

Hence Audi already know about the delay and have already made a change to reduce the kickdown delay. That delay must be greater if the kickdown demands changing down 4 gears.

I don't rely on kickdown when anticipating an overtake for example. The car will be in Manual or I will use the paddles to select the right gear and then let it go back to D in its own time.


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## TFP (May 29, 2010)

Typical Audi, " a characteristic of the car sir"

So we have the hesitant gearbox and the crap noise the car makes on start up.

I agree with Brittan about changing your driving style for an over take, that's what I did so wasn't so much of an issue, but the rattling the car made on start up really annoyed me so the TT has gone and I don't think I'll get another Audi.

Cars with issues and a company that just fobs you off.


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## Pugliese (Aug 4, 2010)

Car went in today to look at the downshift hesitation. Took the car out with their senior technician and he advised that it was the first time they had seen this problem - mmmmmm. Methinks that is standard Audi response to every issue.

Anyway the plan of action is to refer the problem to Germany for any gearbox updates as well as try and replicate the same problem on another RS to make sure it is just not an issue with my car.

The technician explained what he thought the issue was. The gears are on two shafts, even numbers on one and uneven on another. Changing gears between shafts should be quick i.e. 7 to 6 or even 7 to 4 and changing one gear on the same shaft i.e. 7 to 5 should be quick, but changing down two cogs on the same shaft i.e. 7 to 3 could be where the problem lies, and this is what happens if you change from D to S and kickdown, you can also achieve this just with kickdown in D if the speed is low enough.

Having said all this and I am not technical enough to know whether he is bull s***ting me, but there is a problem that needs sorting and they have acknowledged that.

As an aside, I have a Q3 Quattro sline as a courtesy car, nearly lost it on the first bend  , its no TT.


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## Pugliese (Aug 4, 2010)

brittan said:


> That's an interesting comment and reminded me of one of the elements in the 24DK software update campaign; the update that removes the pops and bangs.
> 
> That element says: *Reduction of shift time by approx. 1 second for kickdown gearshifts with high gear differences on the same partial gearbox*


Brittan - do you have full details of the 24DK update? As when speaking to the Audi's senior tech he denied knowledge of any update that removed pops and bangs. Therefore when I collect the car it will be useful to confront them with this information as they will no doubt try to fob me off with some lame excuse.


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

Pugliese said:


> The technician explained what he thought the issue was. The gears are on two shafts, even numbers on one and uneven on another. Changing gears between shafts should be quick i.e. 7 to 6 or even 7 to 4 and changing one gear on the same shaft i.e. 7 to 5 should be quick, but changing down two cogs on the same shaft i.e. 7 to 3 could be where the problem lies, and this is what happens if you change from D to S and kickdown, you can also achieve this just with kickdown in D if the speed is low enough.


That sounds remarkably like my comment two posts up where the 24Dk update addressed an issue with slow kickdown. 
A partial gearbox is either the even gears or the odd gears.

"First time we've seen this issue" was a common dealer response to the window regulator problem, for example, on the Mk2 TT. It must be part of their training.

I've had a Q3 before. Dull doesn't come close.


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

Pugliese said:


> Brittan - do you have full details of the 24DK update? As when speaking to the Audi's senior tech he denied knowledge of any update that removed pops and bangs. Therefore when I collect the car it will be useful to confront them with this information as they will no doubt try to fob me off with some lame excuse.


Yes, I'll find it later. Typically the technician does not know what a software update contains or does to the car as that information is not routinely supplied to the dealer by Audi.

When he plugs the car into their VAS system, computer says install this update: so he does. End.


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

Found it; I previously posted it in the RS exhaust noise thread.



brittan said:


> I've had the updated exhaust system (rear half) fitted now. Third time lucky, it does seem to have cured the flap rattle problem.
> 
> I had a quick look under the car and the flap spindles are different. On the old exhausts you could see the end of the spindle on the underside. On the new exhaust there is just a flat disc visible which seems to be the 'head' of the spindle.
> 
> ...


It does not say that it removes the pops and bangs, but as they'd be created by adjusting the ignition interventions etc and protecting the cat is possibly a reasonable excuse/reason for doing so, I'm sure that this is the action that removes the pops and bangs.


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## Pugliese (Aug 4, 2010)

delete duplicate


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## Pugliese (Aug 4, 2010)

brittan said:


> Yes, I'll find it later.


 Thanks Brittan

Forgot to mention, they also admitted there was a modification for the squeaky brakes - Moro Anis please note - didn't have details but I'll find out on collection


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## moro anis (May 27, 2010)

Thanks for that one Pugliese. I took mine in last week re the brakes. Up until then I had been able to reproduce the squeak at will but whatever I tried with tech sitting beside me it did nothing. Totally silent.

I did point out the squeak appeared to be from the rear and mainly from the offside. The rear discs have many radial grroves on the face with the offside being more noticeable whereas the fronts are perfect. I ponted this out and questioned if the pads could have some hard spots in it. He agreed again that it could.

Anyway, my car is booked in for 2 days next week. The frst day for investigation and ordering parts for next day to resolve.

He did say he'd had an RS driver in a few days earlier. His car had just developed a squeak at 700 miles and been silent until then. Mine has done it from collection though it has lessened.

Re the squeaks, they started again a few miles after leaving the dealer. It's not a heat or use thing as they can do it under any conditions - long or short trips, wet or dry.


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## Pugliese (Aug 4, 2010)

So whilst I am awaiting the call from Audi to go and pick up the RS, I have started to consider what they will say about the hesitant downshift. Will it be:-

a) It's a characteristic of the car sir (_meaning - put up and shut up_)

b) Yes we agree there is a problem and we have raised it with Audi in Germany, we will let you know when they come up with a fix (_ meaning - go away and don't bother us)_

c) It clearly makes the car dangerous sir, we would like to offer you a no cost swap for that R8 over there :roll: .

What do the collective think a, b or c? or feel free to suggest another Audi response.


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

a) means "we don't know what's wrong with it either"

b) I've had a b) for the open/close operation of the door windows using the key fob. Milton Keynes didn't know what to do. Audi Germany replicated the fault on a TT RS over there and, after some 6 weeks or so, came up with a coding change to the access module. Problem fixed! I wasn't expecting that so maybe there's hope . . . .

c) strangely enough they never mentioned option c) - but I would have turned it down anyway.


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## TTRS Taff (Jun 10, 2009)

Sorry to bring this up, but has anyone got this problem fixed? I'm going to Audi in Swansea tomorrow so bumping up the thread as taking the car in to get software update and hopefully get the problem fixed. I have to leave it there for 2 days though, is this the norm?


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## NardoTtrs (Oct 7, 2017)

No fix I am afraid.,...at least in my car. The problem is so apparent in my car that it definitely feels like there is a fault.....even though Audi insists it's normal!


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## no name (Feb 16, 2014)

TTS is the same.

These gearboxes have a mind of their own.

Common problems I've had is jumping up two gears too quickly and then struggling to catch up at low revs, massive delay upon booting it and like you say it just takes off almost unexpectedly after a second, on the odd occasion it's fallen out of gear completely for a second or two which is worrying mid junction :?

I had an APR TCU upgrade when remapping and this didn't really solve any of the issues so yeah, will opt for a manual next time time


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## moro anis (May 27, 2010)

I've found on my car if I have drive select set to Dynamic the car is much more responsive with no really noticeable lag or hesitation to kick down. However i often use the paddles to shift down before opening up / overtaking very quickly.


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

Unless there's something I don't know, selecting Dynamic just means it automatically changes gearbox into S mode.

I usually drive with gearbox in M but, when drive select is in Dynamic, switching out of S first as otherwise it enforces a higher idle and raises the minimum engine speed before I can select the next highest gear - never understood the thinking behind this - in manual mode I'll be just judge, thank you!


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## _ade_ (Aug 12, 2013)

I thought this was my imagination the strange hesitations in the gearbox and engine when applying throttle whilst moving quite slowly, I never noticed the issue in my 8V RS3 but it was really starting to bug me, my car has only done 1300 miles and doesn't get used much. I think I will work out how to drive it in a way I can reproduce the issue and get it booked in, it just kind of feels like the car can't be bothered to change down from say 5th to 2nd or 3rd when in drive and you apply say half throttle or so.


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## moro anis (May 27, 2010)

You can also be in Dynamic without being in S mode. Yes the revs rise slightly but I find the car much more crisp and lively. I though that was its intention. I've totally forgotten now about the slight rev rise.


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