# Air rifles



## darrenmk (Apr 12, 2012)

Anyone know whats what with air rifles?

Looking to get something to shoot/get rid of pigeons in my garden. Its big (50 metres x 50 metres) so need something accurate.

Been looking at Weirauch HW100 in .177 - any comments welcome (apart from screaming left footers bleating on about killing animals blah blah  )


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## wellhouse (Jan 26, 2012)

the hw100 is a good pcp, great mag system on it but because the breach is 'open' at the top it is liable to some inaccuracies. If you put a 'one piece' telescopic mount across the top of the breach it helps to strengthen it. Also remove the 'o' band around the barrel to make the barrel free floating. The gap between the barrel and the barrel band is minute and they have been known to get poi movement as a result of the band touching the barrel. Unfortunately it does not have a regulator. I did both these mods to mine and it was better for it. But if it was me i'd have one of these:


or even better - my favourite:

theoben rapid mfr. I prefer regulated rifles poi drop is minimal across the full charge of the air cylinder. Both these would do the job and obviously they would have to be non fac so accurate as you for hunting to about 45metres. The pellet goes a lot further but accuracy falls off with range.

I would avoid any of the 'electronic' rifles, i've had nothing but problems with them.

You should be able to do this before hunting;

pigeon head is pretty small! This was at 42 metres. Grouping about the size of 1p.


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## darrenmk (Apr 12, 2012)

Many thanks, some great info there. I have read up loads on the hw100 but hadnt read anything about the open breech. Does that mean that if using regular scope mounts, they are spanning across seperate/detatched parts of the rifle?


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## wellhouse (Jan 26, 2012)

darrenmk said:


> Many thanks, some great info there. I have read up loads on the hw100 but hadnt read anything about the open breech. Does that mean that if using regular scope mounts, they are spanning across seperate/detatched parts of the rifle?


thats correct and because the aluminium scope has a different rate of thermal expansion to the block and the open block is unsupported by itself at the top, you can get poi movement after you have zeroed the scope. Bridging it with a one piece mount helps but does not ensure it solves the problem. Tiny movements when you're hunting out to 45m make a huge difference. Servicing on the hw is not straight forward and power creep becomes expensive to keep it under 12ft/lbs. I wouldn't buy one over 11.4ft/lbs it allows for different pellet weights, generally all the ones i've had have been closer to 11.2 from the factory. All the newer ones have anti tamper fitted.


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## J•RED (Feb 10, 2013)

I had a HW100TK but sold it earlier this year as I wasn't using it much, but did compete with it in the HFT world championships and did a fair amount of target and hunting with it. I can honestly say it was brilliant for my needs and was very accurate to 40yds, however if I used a heavy pellet then it would go over the 12ftIb limit so I stuck to daystate selects in 4.52 as I found these to be excellent  here's some pics..


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## Gforce (May 10, 2011)

There are lots to choose from the hw100 is a great airgun 
I also have an 
Edgar bros xvi 
Daystate airwolf tactical (electric had no problems with mine but the electric trigger takes all the fun out of shooting)
And just ordered the fx verminator mk2 as I'm totally hooked on the sport now lol


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## darrenmk (Apr 12, 2012)

Looks like both of you might be using the carbine versions of the hw100 ?
How many shots do you get per charge please?

Is the Theoben rapid mk2 the similar open breach design?


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## Gforce (May 10, 2011)

50-70 shots good shots before you notice it dropping off
The rapid is also a great gun more shots per charge


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## igotone (Mar 10, 2010)

I had a Weirauch .22 a few years back which I used to take with me along with the shotgun for pigeon shooting. I used the .22 for pigeons sitting up in trees and it was phenomenally accurate and pretty deadly. Air rifles are pretty high tech bits of kit these days.

I do keep looking at Theobans - quite fancy one but they're a bit expensive. Plagued with magpies in the garden at the moment. :evil:


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## wellhouse (Jan 26, 2012)

Hw100kt 60 shots per fill is about right, more than enough for a hunting session. No difference in accuracy between the full length and carbine but shot count is different. I've had both and the carbine is better for hunting, more compact and point able. 14 shot mag on the hw and upto 17 on .177 rapid. The rapid has more meat below the mag opening and mag design is different. Hw mag design requires a bigger opening and as a result less meat at the bottom of the opening. Servicing is a doddle on the rapid.


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## IC_HOTT (May 29, 2010)

Enjoying this thread, have pigeons but no room to shoot 

Are we allowed to shoot cats :roll:


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## Gforce (May 10, 2011)

With a water pistol you should be ok :lol:


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

grasmere said:


> Enjoying this thread, have pigeons but no room to shoot
> 
> Are we allowed to shoot cats :roll:


if you keep pigeons yes


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## darrenmk (Apr 12, 2012)

I held the hw100 carbine with the sporter stock the other day in my local gunshop and it felt superb - was going to go for that one but now cant get the open breech thing out of my head :lol:


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## Gforce (May 10, 2011)

If your not against second hand then would be worth joining an airgun forum(airgunforum.co.uk) loads of used air rifles for sale at good prices


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## darrenmk (Apr 12, 2012)

Not against 2nd had as such, but having looked around at various sites selling used ones (gunstar etc), it seems people are asking such ridiculously high prices for their used rilfes, I might as well buy new


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## Hilly10 (Feb 4, 2004)

Yes its very true second hand rifles are holding their money big time. I have the HW 100 and shoot every week in HFT its a brilliant rifle. Never heard of or been told that about the breech, and i know guys who have had them for years plus its German Eng at its very best.



If you want a great rifle for knocking Pidgeons off then get yourself a AA S400 its single shot but it is all the rifle you will need.



If you fancy a springer then get a AA TX 200 or if the want the very best get a AA Pro Sport. known as the best springer money can buy



PS dont forget if you go down the PCP route you will have to factor in a in date air tank and fill line which will set you back £180


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## darrenmk (Apr 12, 2012)

Hilly10 said:


>


Another carbine ?


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

be jesus you lot are a bunch or gangsters & contract killers :lol: :lol:


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## wellhouse (Jan 26, 2012)

darrenmk said:


> I held the hw100 carbine with the sporter stock the other day in my local gunshop and it felt superb - was going to go for that one but now cant get the open breech thing out of my head :lol:


don't worry about it, just fit the single piece mount, i think i kept one just in case i get another one. Probably the best magazine in the business on the hw. I'd be more worried about servicing costs if it has to go back to Hull for any reason. You've got to start somewhere! Worth getting the chairgun app as well. Be warned - it can get addictive and seriously expensive, these 2 were over £1500 each just don't tell the wife! (ttrs of the airgun world) :mrgreen: 





and when you get bored of rifles!


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## Gforce (May 10, 2011)

Wellhouse they are beautiful I want one of each please


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## J•RED (Feb 10, 2013)

Very nice indeed


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

Had a go with a 50 cal in US last year, now that will take out the pigeon, and the branch it's on, and the tree the branch is on.

Also played with some serious thermographic imaging sights, could follow heat from footprints from 100+ yards...

Was on business trip to a specialist manufacturer. Great fun


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## wellhouse (Jan 26, 2012)

Shug750S said:


> Had a go with a 50 cal in US last year, now that will take out the pigeon, and the branch it's on, and the tree the branch is on.
> 
> Also played with some serious thermographic imaging sights, could follow heat from footprints from 100+ yards...
> 
> Was on business trip to a specialist manufacturer. Great fun


interestingly you can still get a 50 cal sniper rifle in the uk providing you can persuade the authorities that you have a good reason to have one (shooting pigeons won't cut it though!) and at about £7 a round you'll need a big bank balance. [smiley=furious3.gif] just watch your back stop!


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

ROFL hit me uptop my head........... is that an air rifle? surely not lol


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## wellhouse (Jan 26, 2012)

Gazzer said:


> ROFL hit me uptop my head........... is that an air rifle? surely not lol


no - but this is - 50 cal air rifle!!


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## wellhouse (Jan 26, 2012)

Hilly10 said:


> Yes its very true second hand rifles are holding their money big time. I have the HW 100 and shoot every week in HFT its a brilliant rifle. Never heard of or been told that about the breech, and i know guys who have had them for years plus its German Eng at its very best.
> 
> having had a few of these apart following pok's instructions, i'm not so sure!
> 
> ...


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## Gforce (May 10, 2011)

50 cal air rifle :lol: whatever next?


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Gforce said:


> 50 cal air rifle :lol: whatever next?


Jees can shoot donkeys with that cal gun


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## YoungOldUn (Apr 12, 2011)

darrenmk said:


> Anyone know whats what with air rifles?
> 
> Looking to get something to shoot/get rid of pigeons in my garden. Its big (50 metres x 50 metres) so need something accurate.
> 
> Been looking at Weirauch HW100 in .177 - any comments welcome (apart from screaming left footers bleating on about killing animals blah blah  )


Getting back to basics, I think it is generally accepted that a .22 is more suited to control of vermin such as rats and pidgeons at the sort of ranges encountered in a garden. I own amongst others a Daystate Mk4 IS in .22 and an AirArms S410 carbine in .177 and even though I like shooting the S410 the Mk4 seems to be the more lethal weapon. I think this is possible due to the velocity of the .177 pellet being so much higher than the .22 and the penetration being such that the pellet passes clean through the body of the rat/pidgeon. I bought both of these rifles from Blackpool Air Rifles (http://www.airgunbuyer.com) the S410 was purchased new, the Mk4 IS secondhand and would recommend buying from them.

One other consideration of buying a PCP weapon is the cost of the charging equipment whether it is a pump or a divers bottle.


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## J•RED (Feb 10, 2013)

Hi Darren if you live in MK I can't recommend the guys in R&K Stockcraft in Stony Stratford highly enough. Absolutely brilliant customer service and nice guys in general, it's where I bought my HW100 from back in 2008 and they have a room dedicated to air rifles


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## darrenmk (Apr 12, 2012)

J•RED said:


> Hi Darren if you live in MK I can't recommend the guys in R&K Stockcraft in Stony Stratford highly enough. Absolutely brilliant customer service and nice guys in general, it's where I bought my HW100 from back in 2008 and they have a room dedicated to air rifles


Blimey small world - That's where I've been looking at the carbine sporter  
They've got some very nice kit in there


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## J•RED (Feb 10, 2013)

Good stuff, I used them as I used to live near Bicester and heard they had a nice selection at the time


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## Hilly10 (Feb 4, 2004)

wellhouse said:


> Hilly10 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes its very true second hand rifles are holding their money big time. I have the HW 100 and shoot every week in HFT its a brilliant rifle. Never heard of or been told that about the breech, and i know guys who have had them for years plus its German Eng at its very best.
> ...


To be really honest if I were staking money on a competion with my mates on a Sunday morning I would take my AA S400 all day long. Now £ for £ its the dogs


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## wellhouse (Jan 26, 2012)

Hilly10 said:


> wellhouse said:
> 
> 
> > Hilly10 said:
> ...


I wouldn't disagree with that - fantastic value for money! The old air arm pro target would be in my bag as well if we're talking target shooting.


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## Bricktop (Apr 30, 2013)

What a smart selection of rodent eradicators


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## wellhouse (Jan 26, 2012)

there's always a lot of debate about calibre .177 versus .22, all i will say is this - i use .177 non fac less than 12ft/lbs for all vermin control except rats and providing you are going for head shots .177 is fine. 0.5 inch kill zone, zeroed around 32metres means you can aim on the crosshair without using any 'hold' and you will still hit the spot from about 12-40m depending on pellet being used, makes hunting more straightforward. .22 pellet weight requires a bit more thought due to drop off especially if your shooting between say 15-50m. the pellet drop could be as much as 5-8 inches depending on pellet weight so requires a bit more thought before pulling the trigger. Most rat hunting is done at close range due to the nature of the animal (barns etc) and although .177 will do the job, .22 or .20 will do the job better. I personally use .20 again because it gives a better pbr allowing you to just use the crosshair without hold giving better flexibility over more ranges. The choice is yours, if it was me it would be .177 for most requirements. The pellet deforms by about 1/3 to 1/2 it's original size on impact which is a massive piece of lead to most small vermin.

in size terms imagine yourself being hit on the head by something the size of a tennis ball at 780ft/sec and you'll understand what i mean, it wouldn't matter if it was a small tennis ball or a big one - it's going to hurt!


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