# Crashed Red TT MkII



## Scooby-Doo (Sep 29, 2006)

*Do you agree with removing the thread*​
yes2220.18%no8779.82%


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## Scooby-Doo (Sep 29, 2006)

I can't find this thread today so I assume it's been removed by the moderators.
I didn't think that this needed removing as it was a graphic reminder of what can so easily happen to any one of us.Now I'm not saying that this is what happened to the TT in question but how many people take out their shiny new car and spend a lot of their time looking and testing all the various bits and buttons and generally not giving 100% of their attention to the road ahead??????


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## Necroscope (Apr 9, 2006)

While it wasnâ€™t pleasant, it wasnâ€™t graphic either and (as you said) was a very real reminder of what happens on the roads. I lost track of the post so I am not sure what went on, but the only thing that should be stopped is dark humour at a very nasty situation. After all its only news!


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## AidenL (Nov 29, 2006)

I agree - I think it should have stayed 

It also would be fair to the OP of the thread, if the Mods would at least PM them to explain the reasons behind their thinking. I always do that on the forum I Mod myself - it establishes a firm relationship and trust between member and Mod - and gives an insight into the thinking and reasoning behind the action, which most times is accepted and agreed with.

Just creates a more pleasant atmosphere 

I have never seen a Mod posting as a Mod here, I mean, explaining anything that happens - kinda Cold War scary-like-vibe at times


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## BMW330Ci (Apr 7, 2006)

No it should not have been removed, the information is in the Public Domain, is not graphic (in any more sense than the gigabytes of 9/11 etc stuff on the net), is TT related etc,etc.

Tyresmoke have not removed it from their forum.

http://www.tyresmoke.net/ubbthreads...25,26,27,3/Number/1107413/an/0/page/0#1107413


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

There was nothing wrong with the thread - but I agree with it's removal. All the pictures were fairly standard fayre however there was no need whatsoever to show some poor sod being zipped up in a body bag. Not once did either thread, esp the first one, give any warning that the attached pictures were "graphic" - the MKii forum is not the Flame Room and even still there are levels of decency (or even courtesy ) to be adhered to. Any thoughts to the family or surviving passenger?

"I didn't think that this needed removing as it was a graphic reminder of what can so easily happen to any one of us" Shall we post some pics of domestic violence, other road traffic incidents, casualties of war etc and create a Public Information Forum? We could call it the "Just So Forum". We are perfectly aware that cars crash - and anyway how can any comment be made as to the cause.

BTW I did not find the pics graphic - I can and have seen far worse during my working week.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

BMW330Ci said:


> No it should not have been removed, the information is in the Public Domain, is not graphic (in any more sense than the gigabytes of 9/11 etc stuff on the net), is TT related etc,etc.
> 
> Tyresmoke have not removed it from their forum.
> 
> http://www.tyresmoke.net/ubbthreads...25,26,27,3/Number/1107413/an/0/page/0#1107413


Does that justify anything?


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

I don't see its any different to any other car wreck. Yes someone died which is regrettable but as long as you can't see the human side of it i don't have a problem. Should we not talk about anything or post any pictures of anything that has a human cost?

It amounts to censorship, plain and simple. I'm sure 99.9% of people are able to choose for themselves what is acceptable. This would be no different to something reported on the daily news BEFORE the watershed.

If the issue is the actual picture then is a link (http://whatever.suck) to the pictures acceptable since they are not actually hosted on this site?

I for one think the mods should have to JUSTIFY why a thread is removed publicly on the board that its been removed from.

I wager this thread will also be removed! :evil:


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Would it have been acceptable to show pics of the London Bombings in 2005 - showing coroner staff removing body bags?

I agree that this thread should be moved too - more Site News or Flame Room material.


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## VeeDubDan (May 6, 2006)

I can see both sides of the coin, but all I can say is I know how I would feel if the pictures were of a crash involving one of my loved ones.


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

Is this kind of thing in general - pulling of such posts - a paedaphile type over-reaction? Just because some sick people (including some news reporters, for that matter) get their jollies from looking at pictures of violence and death, does it mean it cannot be referred to or talked about, or pictures of the aftermath shared?

No-one seems to complain about photos of the hollocaust being displayed in national galleries, I guess because it attracts a strong sense of sympathy / sadness / guilt. But why is treatment of other more 'natural' events seen as voyeurism and tasteless?

I do not want to see the mangled body of a bomber's victim or as a result of a car crash. But what's wrong with wanting to see the other aspects of the tragedy? It's just human nature to be interested in what has happened and how. Perhaps an opportunity to learn from others' mistakes?

I agree, a warning should have been made. If the link is to a site focussing on the tasteless aspects of an incident, by all means remove the thread. But if not, then what's the problem?


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

saint said:


> Would it have been acceptable to show pics of the London Bombings in 2005 - showing coroner staff removing body bags?


That would depend on the context.

Dont think im the right person to comment further.


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

VeeDubDan said:


> I can see both sides of the coin, but all I can say is I know how I would feel if the pictures were of a crash involving one of my loved ones.


I'm not sure I would care. I think I would might be a little preoccupied with the fact that they were dead / seriously injured.

I would, however, be a tad bit peeved if photographers had been busy taking pictures rather than helping the victims. Hmm, that somehow sounds familiar...


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## ezzie (Jul 2, 2004)

I can see both sides. There is no purpose to be served by showing a smashed up TT, I also seem to recall an earlier thread with the same photos or link. We had the smashed up black TT pre launch and there was a sense of seeing the crashed car to gain some clues as to what the new car was going to look like, bu that's no longer valid. Having said all that, I don't believe it ought to be removed, as long as the content is flagged, need not read the thread if have issues with it.


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## sheila (Oct 7, 2006)

I am glad it was removed as I found the content distasteful in view of the tragic circumstances and in respect to the victim(s) and their families, perhaps there are more appropriate places to display such images where those that wish to view them can make a choice to do so.


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## demi_god (Apr 7, 2006)

death is ugly, get used to it....no one like's to see it (although a few actually do)

I only feel a deep pity for the family and those who have to clean up after it.

But i for one am pleased for the stark reminder of it all, You tube is full of new tt owners driving at 155 for the sake of showing off to you the viewing audience.

It is just a reminder that scoring high in safety tests, doesnt mean invincibility.

Life is fragile, look after it. you only get one chance.......unless you believe in buddhism


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

ridiculous nannying :roll:

You see worse on the news most nights

distasteful? it's reality! 

i agree with demi god it's a wake up call that no matter how fast or well built your choice of car is don't be an idiot.


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## bw64402 (Jul 30, 2006)

digimeisTTer said:


> ridiculous nannying :roll:
> 
> You see worse on the news most nights
> 
> ...


Well put! :wink:


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## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

I fully understood why the Lambo fatality thread was removed some time back as the pictures were very graphic, with recognisable bodies and was very distressing.

The pictures of the red mk2 are not in that catagory, with the zipped up body bag being the only thing which could be classed as slightly disrespectful.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

digimeisTTer said:


> ridiculous nannying :roll:
> 
> You see worse on the news most nights
> 
> ...


But was "being an idiot" the cause of the crash? But that's not the point anyway.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

I posted on tyresmoke as I can only see the benefits of doing so.

I 100% think it was the wrong decision to remove it. (What rule did it break?)

If it makes people consider just for a short time the consequences of their driving actions then some good can come of this tragic incident.

The worst that happens is some people don't like it. As has been mentioned the pictures on the news are much more graphic.

If the mods don't like the content at least we should be told so that we can learn what's ok and what's not.

IMHO it's censorship with no justification.


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

saint said:


> But was "being an idiot" the cause of the crash? But that's not the point anyway.


Agreed we weren't there, but still a timely reminder.

i saw Scotty's thread on tyresmoke which is still there, i think we should remove the mod that deleted it personally as they clearly have no sense of judgement.


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## Jimbo2 (Nov 30, 2006)

I'd just like to add my voice to those against the unwarrented censorship of this forum. It's not the first thread that's just vanished without comment.

Real moderation would have involved editing the posts to remove the offending pictures or links, posting a comment to tell everyone what has been done and then, in the most serious cases, locking the thread.

For me, that thread was a real wake-up call. I personally would not have thought that the road involved was dangerous enough to be fatal.


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## thefallacycouk (Jun 27, 2006)

I just think the body bag picture neednt of been included in the list of pics. 
75% of people so far in the poll think it shouldnt of been removed so enough said.

Wreckedexotics.com is a hugely popular website with thousands of wrecked sports cars where no doubt a lot of drivers have been killed (especially in Enzo's) but no bodies or anything like that is ever shown. Hence my above point.
There are a number of MK1 TT's on there. And if you are wondering I only know about this site after reading an article in The Sunday Times.

Ricki


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## marcusgilbert (Jan 22, 2007)

saint said:


> Would it have been acceptable to show pics of the London Bombings in 2005 - showing coroner staff removing body bags?


Irrelevent arguement - this is a forum about cars - and the TT in particular! If it were a forum about bridges, bombs or general news, then you might have a valid point.

You can't hide from the real world - its often beautiful, but sometime's ugly. Forum Mods should not take on the role of thought police, based on their own personal views. This is blatent censorship based on no rules of the forum that I can find. If I've missed them, please show me and I'll stand corrected. Finally - look at the poll result.
Rant over. :roll: 
.


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## fut1a (Dec 28, 2006)

Should not have been taken off.

Like others have said there were no graphic images, it was a sight that brough home the message that we all need to be careful.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

marcusgilbert said:


> saint said:
> 
> 
> > Would it have been acceptable to show pics of the London Bombings in 2005 - showing coroner staff removing body bags?
> ...





> Irrelevent arguement - this is a forum about cars - and the TT in particular! If it were a forum about bridges, bombs or general news, then you might have a valid point.


Oooops - you missed there, am sorry. It's the fact that this is a public forum that's relevent - nothing to do with TTs or cars etc.


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## marcusgilbert (Jan 22, 2007)

saint said:


> marcusgilbert said:
> 
> 
> > saint said:
> ...


Your 'aving a larf arn't you? This forum is called the ********! You can't make it something it's not, just so that it fits your viewpoint.
.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Ok - so if this was posted in Off Topic, The Powder Room, Jokes etc the outcome, as it was, would have been different? The fact that it was a TT still does not, imo, justify certain aspects of either thread and secondary to the subject.

If you wish to get picky - the TT part of the "********" is less than 33% of the actual website.


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## marcusgilbert (Jan 22, 2007)

saint said:


> Ok - so if this was posted in Off Topic, The Powder Room, Jokes etc the outcome, as it was, would have been different? The fact that it was a TT still does not, imo, justify certain aspects of either thread and secondary to the subject.
> 
> If you wish to get picky - the TT part of the "********" is less than 33% of the actual website.


With respect, as I said earlier, look at the poll results for this particular thread. This means your opinion lies with the minority on this particular issue. Enough said. :arrow:


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## tt200 (Jan 29, 2007)

To be honest what alarmed me was how little protection the car seems to have afforded the occupants.

It's not obvious what happened but the lorry looks relatively unscathed. I can only assume that this is the downside of having a relatively low car - it looks as though the cabin rather than the crumple zones took most of the impact.

Either way I'd rather see the picture than not.

And in a strange way it is also a good thing if the car manufacturer's have to keep this kind of imagery in mind when they are designing their cars.

If every accident is hushed up and kept under wraps they have no incentive to improve the crash protection their cars offer.

One only has to look at the effect of such publicity to see that it has a major impact on car design and safety e.g. Chrysler Voyager crash tests, the Baby Merc rollover incident and not least the Audi TT Mk1 handling.


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## marcusgilbert (Jan 22, 2007)

I agree tt200. After finding the picture (thanks to BMW330Ci link to tyresmoke) I was amazed at how the roof panel seems have torn cleanly away from the A-C pliiar connecting piece. We have all been told of the performance benefits of the Audi Space Frame techhology. Of course it's not easy to compare the damage to what might of happened had the car been made in a steel monocoque. Still, it makes you think about the poor chap who died in the car - and that no matter how good a job the car manufacture does in creating a safe envirinment, the best safety feature of all will always be sensible driving.
.


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## FinFerNan (Feb 28, 2007)

marcusgilbert said:


> .......... and that no matter how good a job the car manufacture does in creating a safe envirinment, the best safety feature of all will always be sensible driving.
> .


Spot on mate! however...........

Yes the images are thought provoking in all sorts of ways, and the fact someone died makes them all the more poignant.

Of course the test of what is reasonable is subjective, and itâ€™s clear from the thread that many other topics have had their own personal impact, and surely thatâ€™s what forums are all about, arenâ€™t they?

However, in the context of a forum, for me the main point here is the unfettered censorship.

As a minimum, the reason why a thread is removed should be disclosed.


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## Scooby-Doo (Sep 29, 2006)

In relation to the comments about damage etc,from memory I think it must have rolled a few times (the field looked as if it was well below the road level) and how much damage to the roof was done by the rescue services.


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## JohnDonovan (Jul 13, 2005)

bw64402 said:


> digimeisTTer said:
> 
> 
> > ridiculous nannying :roll:
> ...


Yes, I agree with the idea that it may act as a 'reminder' of how badly things can go wrong.

Presumably 99% of people who frequent this forum are TT owners (or potential purchasers!) and as such appreciate sporty/fast cars. I will also admit to having driven on the quick side occaisonally (I'm sure you all have!).

I think the thread in question has merit as a tool for reminding us all to be sensible out on the roads.

As far as the moderation goes, I think removing it is heavy-handed. Perhaps the way to have gone would have been to edit (WITH explanation), or simply ADD a warning in the subject regarding the content.


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## Jimbo2 (Nov 30, 2006)

Be nice to see a mod comment in this thread... mods, where are you?


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## bw64402 (Jul 30, 2006)

The poll says it all ! :wink:


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

The forums doesn't appear to be a democracy - the removed thread is still removed!


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Toshiba said:


> The forums doesn't appear to be a democracy


Oh come on!

You never thought it was :lol: :wink:


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

Can the mod please stand up?


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

scoTTy said:


> Toshiba said:
> 
> 
> > The forums doesn't appear to be a democracy
> ...


No, that's why i said on page 1, if a thread is removed it should be explained, else it simply censorship. Not moderation.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Who's forum is it anyway?


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## squiggel (May 16, 2006)

I vote with the minority.

There's plenty other sickvoyeur.com type sites out there for this type of stuff and much worse, dont think this is the right place for it.

I accept that this is a minority view, though I suspect the manner of the moderation has affected the vote.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

saint said:


> Who's forum is it anyway?


Its the people who use the forum, plain and simple - without users it a waste of KBs sat on a server somewhere.


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## JohnDonovan (Jul 13, 2005)

Damn - every time I get a "Topic Reply Notification" e-mail I think _Ooh! maybe the mod has finally replied,_ but no......

...........Come on, at least have the gumption to stand by your convictions and explain why this was removed!


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## marcusgilbert (Jan 22, 2007)

Yes, come on Mod - explain yourself. Don't be shy. 
.


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## PATT (Apr 2, 2003)

To be honest I logon to the MK2 forum to read about the latest news and to get a woolly feeling about my impending arrival around the TT but if that involves reading this horrible incident then so be it.

While most of the threads are inquisitive or informative I think we all need a reality check and to ban this earlier thread is, IMO, wrong

Since first viewing this Iâ€™ve certainly thought twice about my actions when behind the wheel .


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Has anyone asked any of the moderators anything about the thread in question?

I've only just seen this thread... and have checked the quarantine area where all threads end up that we moderate and there is no thread what so ever regarding the MK2 crash.


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## TTdriver (Sep 2, 2006)

I cannot see any reason whatso ever of removing the thread, If it had shown the persons face ect or was graphic then yes remove it, but it didnt, what it did show is that speed ect kills, thoughts go out to the family of the deceased but hopefully people that have seen the pics will take on board that carelessness/ speeding ect can and will kill and hopefully it will make some people on here think about there driving style and what effects there driving would have on there family if it was them in the body bag.


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

nutts said:


> Has anyone asked any of the moderators anything about the thread in question?


We don't know who the mods are anymore :roll:

well i don't anyway


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

I know at least one, who said's he isn't , but still is

It's not the first time he let things dissapear... :wink:


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

nutts said:


> Has anyone asked any of the moderators anything about the thread in question?
> 
> I've only just seen this thread... and have checked the quarantine area where all threads end up that we moderate and there is no thread what so ever regarding the MK2 crash.


Nutts - It wouldn't be the first time a mod hasn't followed the guideline that we'd (when I was a mod) all agreed about moving stuff into the quarantine area.

Things do get deleted with no trace. I guess only Jae could check...assuming auditing is on. :?

Yet again it's the lack of transparency and the secrecy that upsets people more than anything to do with content.

You may be the only mod to have seen this thread so please could you make your fellow mods aware. Cheers


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

....there will be more chashes with MK2's...


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Iâ€™ve kept quiet, but this sort of thread really grates me.

It's this kind of attitude that made me quit as a mod. On *EVERY* other forum I frequent Mods don't have to justify every move they make to all and sundry. If something gets deleted/locked, itâ€™s done, and they don't have to explain why. People just live with it because it was probably done for a reason.

Let me make it perfectly clear, I didn't delete/move this thread, but I did read it and clearly quite a few people felt it wasn't suitable - so if a mod deleted it then you should all just shut up and put up. It wasnâ€™t deleted/moved for no reason, it was moved by somebody in charge who made a judgement based on peoples comments.

It's pathetic the way people appear after every decision is made, creating new threads complaining and questioning decisions. I'm sorry but it's not your decision to make, it's Jae and the moderators. They are in charge, not you. If they want to remove a thread, you have to live with it.

Too much pointless f*cking whinging happens on this forum abtou the way it's run (and i'm sure people start it just to get a reaction), and as a result the real problems get left unsolved.

It's pathetic.


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

yeah yeah, we all love you too KMPowell [smiley=sleeping.gif]

Personly i don't like these kind of pictures, or thread's.
But i can understand that people asked why the thread was removed.


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

i just wish the faceless mod would have the backbone to stand up and justify his/her decision, which is clearly in the minority :?

Personally i'm just not keen on autocrasy :?


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## Jimbo2 (Nov 30, 2006)

kmpowell said:


> It's this kind of attitude that made me quit as a mod. On *EVERY* other forum I frequent Mods don't have to justify every move they make to all and sundry. If something gets deleted/locked, itâ€™s done, and they don't have to explain why. People just live with it because it was probably done for a reason.


Dont know which forums you frequent, but my experience is the opposite. Check out AVForums.com for example. THE premier source for AV-related information, huge membership, lots of third-party sponsorship. The mods there must be doing something right, right..?


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

The best mod's are the one you never hear and see...
Something you missed KMPowell. That's why you got all the critic's at the time you where a mod...

You don't have to burn this thread down, because a lot off people just ask for a answere? I think Nutts gave a proper answere.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> It wasnâ€™t deleted/moved for no reason, it was moved by somebody in charge who made a judgement based on peoples comments.


Since when was that the role of a moderator? I thought they were there to enforce the rules....hence my question earlier about what rule has it broken. :?


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Jimbo2 said:


> Dont know which forums you frequent


There are others, but the main three that never has people questioning mods are;

Pistonheads
Tyresmoke
UK MKIV's

None of the mods take any s*it, and nobody questions decisions that are made. Threads disappear/get locked all the time, and it is blatantly obvious why, so what's done is done and people accept it without ridiculous whinging.

In this particular case a thread containing a series of crashed car images and a bodybag got deleted. Hardly a case to wonder why some people objected?!?

If it did remain, you would then get the people moaning that it should have been deleted, and questioning why it was still there.

You can't please all the people all of the time.


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## FinFerNan (Feb 28, 2007)

kmpowell

But the Dark Ages ended a few centuries ago.............. :lol:


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## marcusgilbert (Jan 22, 2007)

kmpowell said:


> Jimbo2 said:
> 
> 
> > Dont know which forums you frequent
> ...


I think you scored an own goal there! Tyresmoke are showing the pictures in question. :?


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

marcusgilbert said:


> kmpowell said:
> 
> 
> > Jimbo2 said:
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## JohnDonovan (Jul 13, 2005)

kmpowell said:


> Iâ€™ve kept quiet, but this sort of thread really grates me.
> 
> It's this kind of attitude that made me quit as a mod. On *EVERY* other forum I frequent Mods don't have to justify every move they make to all and sundry. If something gets deleted/locked, itâ€™s done, and they don't have to explain why. People just live with it because it was probably done for a reason.


Mr kmpowell,

I see other people have already responded to this post, but I thought I'd add my two-penneth anyway!

I frequent a few forums, although perhaps tellingly this is the only car based one (TT is my only car!  ) Other than that, I frequent a few for one of my other hobbies (photography) - and on these, YES things do get moderated - BUT usually with some (all be it brief) explanation/reason!

-i.e. _"Due to the nature of this thread I have moved it to .... forum"_ OR _"This thread has been locked/deleted because...."_

...Personally I'm not trying to bash the mod for deleting the thread necessarily - just the fact that they don't even offer even the briefist reasons as to why?!?!?

I'm sorry *kmpowell* but I don't think classing this as whinging is fair OR democratic - we don't live in a Communist state where we just have to shut up/put up. We're all entitled to free speech - long may it be so!

'Rant over!' :?


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

marcusgilbert said:


> I think you scored an own goal there! Tyresmoke are showing the pictures in question. :?


Read my reply Marcus, I'm not talking about the content of this thread - I'm talking about the deleiting & locking of threads in general. Just 'cos the content of this thread is on another forum, doesn't make it right. There are countless numbers of other forums that exist that don't have the pictures, and how many of those had a thread with this content removed? We'll probably never know.

Anyway, i've said my piece on here and hopefully the mod who did delete it will be along to explain. Until then I think you lot should cut the Mods a bit of slack, it's not an easy job to do and it's thankless when pointless whinging threads like this are started.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

I don't think people are attacking or looking to attack mods, more looking for guidance as to the rule or rules the thread contravened.


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## cheechy (Nov 8, 2006)

kmpowell said:


> marcusgilbert said:
> 
> 
> > I think you scored an own goal there! Tyresmoke are showing the pictures in question. :?
> ...


To be fair when a thread is locked on TSN a reason is given - unless a mod gets p1ssed and removes it - a lot of that was happening towards the end of last year........ :roll:


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## AidenL (Nov 29, 2006)

Jimbo2 said:


> kmpowell said:
> 
> 
> > It's this kind of attitude that made me quit as a mod. On *EVERY* other forum I frequent Mods don't have to justify every move they make to all and sundry. If something gets deleted/locked, itâ€™s done, and they don't have to explain why. People just live with it because it was probably done for a reason.
> ...


On MINI2, which is quite big and busy,over 40k registered, (not active of course) members, our policy is to always quarantine threads, always PM the thread originator when a thread is removed, and always explain why a thread was removed when requested by any general member in the Site Feedback section.

It works well, lets the general members see the thought process behind the Moderation action, and generally satisfies most, not everyone, but then in life we all have to agree to disagree sometime.

I'd have to say I'd always come down for friendly communication rather than heavy-handedness, like it or lump it with no explanation type Moderation as seems to be the case here in general. Its not going to make this forum a friendly place to be, nor will it make lurkers inclined to register. 

I really think things need Spring clean in this regard .


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## AidenL (Nov 29, 2006)

Toshiba said:


> I don't think people are attacking or looking to attack mods, more looking for guidance as to the rule or rules the thread contravened.


I agree - if people don't know what rule was broken, it is likely to reoccur.

Just clarity is what everyone is after I think?


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## marcusgilbert (Jan 22, 2007)

AidenL said:


> Toshiba said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think people are attacking or looking to attack mods, more looking for guidance as to the rule or rules the thread contravened.
> ...


Spot on! I'd go with that.
.


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