# Family Wagon



## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Is a CitroÃ«n Xsara Picasso a really bad idea?

If yes, can you recommend a vehicle of similar ilk?


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## Neil (May 7, 2002)

Widget said:


> Is a CitroÃ«n Xsara Picasso a really bad idea?
> 
> If yes, can you recommend a vehicle of similar ilk?


Wouldn't be my 1st choice.

Mate's got a Touran (and 2 kids). Very pleased with it, got a good deal, reasonable amount of punch (TDi I think), he really likes it.


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## Philr (Oct 10, 2006)

dont know much about these sorts of cars but have a mate with a Scenic and he is very pleased with it - also some big discounts available (Motorpoint I think).


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

We looked at the Grand scenic, Corolla Verso and the Touran. Touran has everything except the looks. Better than the others in every single department bar external aesthetics. We bought one.

So did two mates, on my recommendation.


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## Jo Sharp (May 7, 2004)

We got a Touran 2.0Tdi as family car and it is excellent.

Very good MPG if you don't welly it, but if you do it reaches 125mph (here in germany) with ease.


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## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

Can we ban threads like this please....you keep giving me a reality check...next you'll be telling me how it costs 50p/mile to run!

H


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

Depends what you do - our family bus needs to make its way down forest track for orienteering, muddy rugby pitches - so we chose a Honda CRV.

Fuel isn't great on the Petrol - about 24 round town, now up to 29 on a run. But as a family and dog bus, it works very well.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

What you need is a nice 2004 S4.


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

We've also got a Touran and as has already been said, it's not the best looker (not too bad though) in it's class... but it is damn good at what it does!

We've got the 140 TDi Sport, with DSG, Leather, etc and managed to tour Europe with 5 kids and had absolutely no problems at all 

Ours has now done 85k trouble free miles  550 miles +/- 100 miles per tank dependent on driving style


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

The thing is, I don't want to spend too much.

There are two cars at the moment, Cayman S and a Seat Leon.

I've contemplated selling them both to make way for an expensive family car and a Â£10k ish car to get me to work and back.

But then I drive the Cayman!!

Not only is it such a fantastic drive, it would be financial suicide to sell after just 9 months, wouldn't it?

So changing the Leon for something a bit bigger is the way forward (I think).

I don't need to go up hill or down dale (I'm in Norfolk don't forget - flat as you like), I just need a bit more space. For instance, when the buggy is in the boot of the Leon, the boot is full.

We only have one 23 day old little girl to carry about so seven seats are unnecessary.



jampott said:


> What you need is a nice 2004 S4.


It had crossed my mind but I recently had some allergy tests (trying to discover why I lost my sense of smell) and it transpires that I'm allergic to dogs!!


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

I really like the look of the new Picasso based, obviously, on the Xsara's replacement the C4. But then I also love the styling of the C4 - especially in 3-dr guise.










Seems like Citroen are back to designing interesting looking cars again after the blandness that blighted them during the 90s.

If you're talking SH though, then the Xsara Picasso was the best-selling car of its type for most of its life and therefore there are plenty of SH ones to choose from. Not a bad place to be and certainly more roomy for passengers than a B6 Avant - sorry Tim.

I also seem to remember reading somewhere that the new one now can be specced with 7 seats too.

Others to choose from?

The Ford S-Max. My parents hired one to come down to our daughter's Christening in Devon (from Newcastle) and loved it. Transported five with ease and had room for two more.










The Vauxhall Zafira - never been in one, but by all accounts they're pretty good - and there's a GSi version. :roll:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jampott said:


> What you need is a nice 2004 S4.


It's a bargain.


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

A mate of mine has a base model diesel Picasso. He paid just over Â£10k new about 10 months ago. I would say it is the best value family car available. I find it to be not particularly comfortable in the rear but fine in the front and easy to drive with sufficient go to make driving it pleasant. And it does nearly 60 mpg on a run. Bargain.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Widget said:


> Is a CitroÃ«n Xsara Picasso a really bad idea?
> 
> If yes, can you recommend a vehicle of similar ilk?


Yes, whilst the new Picasso is not as ghastly as the last one - it is still inflicted with Citroen build, dealer network and dismal residuals. Which is a shame since Citreon design has revived as Kell mentioned.

I would (actually with a family _I should_) be looking at a compact MPV rather than full on van sized (Espace, Galaxy, Touran) MPV which are just too big.

Most interesting would be:

Honda FRV 2.2 cdti sport - I like the 3+3 seating










Toyota Corolla Verso:










Ford S Max - although I think this is between mini bus and compact MPV in size (?)










Honda engineering, the superb 2.2 engine, service, reliability, build quality and residuals would pip it for me.

BUT - why not just get a proper estate car?

Passat 2tfsi estate?

OR the new Mondeo Estate looks good...


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

I quite like the look of that FRV.

I've just been looking at the Seat Altea. Any thoughts anyone?

Like you Gary, I don't need a bus, I need something larger and more spacious than a standard hatchback.

I'm only a tiny bloke, if I buy an estate car I'll look like I'm piloting an aircraft.


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## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

This weeks Autoexpress has a group test on this sort of thing....

H


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Widget said:


> I quite like the look of that FRV.
> 
> I've just been looking at the Seat Altea. Any thoughts anyone?
> 
> ...


Amandas dad had one as a courtesy car whilst his Civis was in for service.

It was the dealer demo all specced up in dark grey metallic. I thought is was pretty cool. Not too long either. Different.

I prefer the Leon to the Altea. But am not wild about the looks of either. Ditto Golf Plus, although a friend has one for running around kids etc, and it does the job.

You need to book some test drives.

You'd get the whole county in one of these:


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Hannibal said:


> This weeks Autoexpress has a group test on this sort of thing....
> 
> H


Ford S-Max
VW Passat Estate
Hyundai Santa Fe

They're all too big for me. Thanks anyway.


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> I would (actually with a family _I should_) be looking at a compact MPV rather than full on van sized (Espace, Galaxy, Touran) MPV which are just too big.


You're placing the Touran in a class too high. The rear two seats are for occasional use only and you don't get much boot left with them raised. It competes directly with the cars you mention (the Corolla is 2+3+2 and almost identical in size to the Touran).

Were you thinking of the Sharan?


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

No i meant Touran as apposed to Sharan, but I havn't actually seen one alongside the Verso or the FRV - it just looks Galaxy-sized. But I know looks can be deceptive.

Just did a wikipedia search:

Touran 4391mmL, 1795W,6135 H
Verso 4360 L, 1770W, 1622H
FRV 4285l/1810W/1610H

Honda = approx 4" shorter than Touran' Galaxy full foot longer than Touran.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Zafiria or S MAx for me.

Wouldnt touch the touran or the picasso - they are vans with windows in. Where as the other named are real cars.

I'd get a family estate car rather than a MPV.


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Ordered a Seat Altea 1.9TDi Reference Sport.

Seems to tick all of the boxes I need ticking at the moment.

Guess the trade-in price they offered for Julia's March 2004 (04) Seat Leon 1.6SX with 12300 on the clock.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Widget said:


> Guess the trade-in price they offered for Julia's March 2004 (04) Seat Leon 1.6SX with 12300 on the clock.


No idea, but I would be very interested to know! Co-incidently my dad has a 'Platinum' Grey 04 plate Leon 1.6SX with 12.5k on the clock, and he is thinking of changing to the new model Leon.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

5-5.5K would be about right.


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Â£6250.

Not bad huh?

I expect it'll be on the forecourt for around Â£8500.

Kev, what's platinum grey like? Do you like it?


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Oh, and Kev, Â£6250 is based upon March 1st delivery of the Altea.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Widget said:


> Â£6250.
> 
> Not bad huh?
> 
> ...


Interesting price. Dad has been offered Â£6900 against a new diesel Leon, so I think there might be a bit more milage in the price for you if you push it. Having said that though he did buy his current Leon brand new and is going back to the same dealer, so that might have something to do with it.

As for the Grey, my dad is one of those blokes who only cleans his car once or twice a year, so unfortunatley it forever looks dull & dirty. The grey has got a platinum metallic flake to it, so when clean it looks awesome and really looks deep. So only get it if you think you will clean it regularly.


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> he did buy his current Leon brand new and is going back to the same dealer


Same here.

I did the rounds with the online price guides and the guide figure I came up with for the cars value was Â£6300. I was expecting the trade-in price to be about a grand lower than the actual price offered. As Toshiba says, 5-5.5k, so I was chuffed when he said Â£6250.

I'll give the bloke a call and see what he says. However, with the Altea already having Â£1500 off he has less room for movement.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

5.5 is from glasses, but it all depends what he has in the deal and how bad he wants a sale. I'd be smiling too.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Widget said:


> Â£6250.
> 
> Not bad huh?
> 
> ...


Widget, how much did that mean the Leon cost you in dep'n since 04.

....thinking parental transport too. Dad has a Micra and is looking to change.

Congrats on Altea - wouldn't have been my first choice but I guess it ticks all the boxes and the price to change aspect works for you.

2.0 Tdi?

GENERAL COMMENT: is there a sense of inevitablity that we will all be drawn to 'sensible' and 'value' cars (note i do not use cheap) as we near OAPdoom?

Seats, Hondas, Nissans....

Whose folks drive what?

Dad has a newish Micra 1.2 
Mum has a newish 1.0 206

I'll probably have a Toyota Neutron 2 seater 100cc hydrogen city car, with optional bi focal windscreen and colostomy pack.


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Woah woah woah woah Gary. You can't tar me with the same 'sensible' brush. I kept the Cayman S after all 

I bought the Leon for Julia when they had another spesh deal on. I (as I suspect Kev's Dad did) got the 1.6SX for the price of a 1.6S, which at the time was Â£10200 plus Â£300 for metallic paint.

We didn't bother with any other options.

So depreciation works out at Â£4250 in 3 years (based upon a trade-in price, of course). Not bad, however, with 13k on the clock come March they work out at fairly expensive miles.

It's a 1.9TDi engine. It's simlar power as the 1.6 (1.9 is 105PS, 1.6 is 102PS), but I was looking for the extra low end torque (184lb/ft at 1900 compared to 109lb/ft at 3800). I know we're not talking 'break-neck' stuff here but I couldn't think of a reason not to go for the diesel.

The Diesel price is Â£1k more than the 1.6 petrol, however, excise duty is Â£80 a year less and it does do 15mpg more. Probably won't make any savings on fuel but I'll have to fill her up less often. Time is precious with the 'fresh' person about (as you can fully appreciate, I'm sure).

All in all, I'm happy with the decision. It's exactly what we spoke about before. Not too big (so you look like a nugget) but spacious enough to suit our current (and next 3 year (hopefully) needs.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Widget said:


> *Woah woah woah woah Gary. You can't tar me with the same 'sensible' brush. I kept the Cayman S after all*
> 
> I bought the Leon for Julia when they had another spesh deal on. I (as I suspect Kev's Dad did) got the 1.6SX for the price of a 1.6S, which at the time was Â£10200 plus Â£300 for metallic paint.
> 
> ...


As if i would do that. 

Sounds like an eminently well thought out decision for a family wagon.

Honda FRV would ahve touched Â£20K all boxes ticked, so that would have been a different decision.


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

How do you clean the roof?


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Widget said:


> I bought the Leon for Julia when they had another spesh deal on. I (as I suspect Kev's Dad did) got the 1.6SX for the price of a 1.6S, which at the time was Â£10200 plus Â£300 for metallic paint.


Having just done a bit of a search on here to find the advice for him I asked when he picked it up, it was in March/April 2004. However it would appear that my dad got a "SE for the price of a S" deal, so i'm a bit unsure if that is the same as the SX?

I know he got some discount off the price aswell because he put a few options on it. I just gave him a ring, he dug out the receipt and the Leon came in at about Â£11,400 in total (after all the discount). So based on 3 years that's Â£4500 depreciation, which isn't bad at all suppose.

I must say, the Leon has been 100% faultless. Never let him down, never had to go back for any warranty work, and never had the slightest thing go wrong.

It will be the 1.9 diesel for him next too, if I can talk some sense into him! He doesn't realise how far diesel engines have moved on over the past few years!


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Good deals should be available on all 1.9 tdis as the engine is being phased out in favour of common rail variants


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Widget said:


> How do you clean the roof?












:wink:


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

If his is the 1.6 then it's defo the SX. SE trim was only available on the 1.8 20v and the 1.9TDi.

Not that it matters. It appears we got the same deal.

The extra Â£900 on the original value of his car may explain the extra Â£650 offered at trade-in.

I quite like the new Leon. Julia does too. It's a shame it's not big enough to carry our little lady (and all her gear).


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Widget said:


> If his is the 1.6 then it's defo the SX. SE trim was only available on the 1.8 20v and the 1.9TDi.


Yep, just checked, it's an SX, my mistake! 

My dad doesn't seem that keen on the new Leon, and I think he would prefer to keep the one he has. But after she saw one the other day my mum really likes it, and what she says goes!


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

garyc said:


> Widget said:
> 
> 
> > How do you clean the roof?
> ...


Or I could just get a massive sponge


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Kev, we went for Platinum grey by the way


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Widget said:


> Kev, we went for Platinum grey by the way


Good choice. A lovely colour, and like I said when it's clean it's really deep.

For some reason they have discontinued PG from the new Leon, but I think Mum has got her eye on Ada Blue this time around anyway.


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

I guess your father will be going for Ada Blue then


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Widget said:


> I guess your father will be going for Ada Blue then


LOL, I think you may be right!


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

Toshiba said:


> Zafiria or S MAx for me.
> 
> Wouldnt touch the touran or the picasso - they are vans with windows in. Where as the other named are real cars.


WRT the Touran, looks-wise I completely agree. Ugly thing.

However, it's not a van with windows, underneath it's a Golf. Just like that sports car you drive :roll:

In the current mid-size MPV market I would go for the s-max. No contest.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Carlos said:


> However, it's not a van with windows, underneath it's a Golf. Just like that sports car you drive :roll:
> 
> In the current mid-size MPV market I would go for the s-max. No contest.


Not this time around. New TT shares very little with the Golf.

Also - I think I'd agree with the S-Max, though they are quite big when you're next to one.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews ... tions.html


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## p1tse (Sep 20, 2004)

i've not read any of the posts apart from the first one, toyota previa - awesome family wagon, but quite big compared to piccasso


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## GW1970 (Jul 4, 2005)

p1tse said:


> i've not read any of the posts apart from the first one


Refreshingly honest, unlike many of the chaps who post on here :lol:


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

Widget said:


> Is a CitroÃ«n Xsara Picasso a really bad idea?
> If yes, can you recommend a vehicle of similar ilk?


If you are considering an estate as well as an MPV, I went from Touran to Skoda Octavia. *I posted a review here*


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Widget said:


> Ordered a Seat Altea 1.9TDi Reference Sport.
> 
> Seems to tick all of the boxes I need ticking at the moment.
> 
> Guess the trade-in price they offered for Julia's March 2004 (04) Seat Leon 1.6SX with 12300 on the clock.


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## GW1970 (Jul 4, 2005)

Stu-Oxfordshire said:


> Honda looks like it rear-ended a funeral parlour with it's enormous overhang


 :lol: Know what you mean about the Honda Accord estate!


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Kev

Did your old man get his Altea?

Happy with it?


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Widget said:


> Kev
> 
> Did your old man get his Altea?
> 
> Happy with it?


Him and Mother couldn't decide on the new Leon, so they have decided to wait a while.

Mother didn't get her own way! Shock horror! :lol:


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## Antwerpman (Nov 4, 2002)

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews ... zda_5.html

according to this the C4 picasso tops the S-Max.

We just bought the C4 picasso and so far I am pretty impressed. With respect to build quality I had more problems with my A4 cabriolet (which I bought from new in 2005) than I had with a peugeot partner and I would say that for the most part the citroen build quality is very very good, just hate the crap arm rests they use


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