# Fooked off...what's all this school training days....



## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

Only a minor annoyance, but my little boy who's 5 in August is already going to school and today, we have to make arrangements to either take a days holiday or send him to holiday club because the teachers have a "training day".

This happens quite often actually and for some reason it pisses me right off. I've nothing against teachers but wtf. Can't they do their training during the Summer holidays or after school. I mean my little lad finishes at 3:15pm.... :x


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

In-service days they call 'em around here. :roll: One of ours had 4 in first term -equating to nearly a week out. That the school then frowns if we want to take Jess out of school a few days before breaking up date, so we can go on our summer hols, is ludicrous.

In sharp contrast, we have another at private school, where they do not do any in-service days. How come? Accountable to their fee payers, that's why.

I really dont see why state school teachers cannot use the lengthy hols to do this stuff.

Then there is 'edu-babble'. Why does the state school have a Learning Resource Centre and the private one a library? Why does the state school have Mentor Groups where the private has Houses? Why does the state have 360 Degree Feedback Sessions whilst the private manages with parents' evenings? Because they are full of shite and have been spending far too much time on management courses and listening to American Corporate Speak. These are children FFS, not corporate troopers. Some of us get enough of that at work, without seeing our kids' heads filled with similar rubbish.

Jess (state school) has t osubmit some homework in Powerpoint format.  :x :x :x Makes my blood boil. It's pure presentation glitz over learning, understanding and synthesis of content.

And it is because of this that state teachers are spending valuable teaching time (wholly funded by tax payers) developing strategies and being corporate.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Ok, granted teachers may not have the flexibility of taking holidays as and when suits... however... as touched on above - do teachers really need to have the same length of holidays as the kids?

Most of us are lucky to get 5 to 6 weeks paid holidays per year.... teachers get that during the sumer. (I know that temp teachers do not get paid for the holidays however they do get enhanced rates)

So, yes, why don't teachers do workplace training during the school holiday periods?


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Oh, did mean to add too - I do realise that in certain cases teachers do some work outwith term time and career development courses - but this is not the norm.


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

Don't blame the teachers - look to your LEA and the government.

If education wasn't a political football schools wouldn't have to put up with the utter crap branded as initiatives punted out in an endless stream by the "good ideas clubs"

So, the in-training days are for the poor souls to have another pointless, costly and doubtless ineffective "good idea" inflicted on them by their LEA at the behest of a government playing with kids futures to score political points.

Get politics out of education and let the teachers who are infinately more qualified to teach (and they want to) decide the best way to educate your youngsters...too much interference by no-hopers without the first idea of what's needed.

Should it be done in school holiday time? Should it f*ck. They've earned that break.
If you think they've got 6 weeks off for summer, you're wrong...

Dave


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

They are for the teachers to go out drinking and taking dope all day.
Maybe they are telling them the answers to the up and coming tests in order to improve league results :roll:

From 2010 you will need a BA and a Phd to work in Mc'ds.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Jac-in-a-Box said:


> Don't blame the teachers - look to your LEA and the government.
> 
> If education wasn't a political football schools wouldn't have to put up with the utter crap branded as initiatives punted out in an endless stream by the "good ideas clubs"
> 
> ...


Good point, Make that 8 weeks for some.


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## PIPTT (May 6, 2002)

have to agree, i was a school governor for a couple of years in a junior school and bureaucracy and paperwork has overtaken the teaching :?

it's total bullshit, typical of this government :x


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

garyc said:


> Jac-in-a-Box said:
> 
> 
> > Don't blame the teachers - look to your LEA and the government.
> ...


Teachers fault I suppose?

Dave


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Jac-in-a-Box said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > Jac-in-a-Box said:
> ...


No they are poor over-stressed, over-worked victims. Thank heavens they don't get punished with a whole 2 weeks off in summer like most of the over-indulged ungrateful public out there in their far less tiresome, busy and unstressed positions.


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

garyc said:


> No they are poor over-stressed, over-worked victims. Thank heavens they don't get punished with a whole 2 weeks off in summer like most of the over-indulged ungrateful public out there in their far less tiresome, busy and unstressed positions.


Envy?

Sounds the typical comment of those in their _high pressure, stressful, prestigious and time consumming jobs etc_ - at least that's how they view themselve's....they usually have the perception that sending their kids to school is a right to a free child minding service. 
Your comments above typically reflect those now faced with inconvenience of kids interferring with their daily routine for the coming 6 weeks or more.

Shame...for the kids of course.

Dave


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## Hark (Aug 23, 2007)

Love how everyone has an opinion on teachers and education. If you go the pub or whatever and tell someone your a teacher, you can spend the next 10-15 min discussing their views on education.

I teach, you might have guessed. Some teachers get there at 8.30 and are out by 3.30, they are lazy depressive and think they have a tough time etc. Same kind of ppl in every job I think. This does not apply to all teachers.

I work from 8-6 and most nights I take work home. I work all Sunday evening and sometimes Sunday day as well. During the 6 weeks I have to go in either 1st or last week and occasionally both for various jobs. As for 'can't they do it after school' I have training one night, leadership team another and run two after school clubs for kids on Thur/Fri.

Sorry to have a rant, but you haven't once heard me moan about ppl with company cars, holidays in term time, 8-5pm but never taking work home etc

 and breath.......... lo


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## qooqiiu (Oct 12, 2007)

HARK,

Being a PE teacher doesn't make you a proper teacher. :lol:


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## denTTed (Feb 21, 2007)

ResB said:


> Only a minor annoyance, but my little boy who's 5 in August is already going to school and today, we have to make arrangements to either take a days holiday or send him to holiday club because the teachers have a "training day".
> 
> This happens quite often actually and for some reason it pisses me right off. I've nothing against teachers but wtf. Can't they do their training during the Summer holidays or after school. I mean my little lad finishes at 3:15pm.... :x


What did you do before he went to school?

I see it as a benefit to my child that the system takes an interest in our teachers development and skills.

I love these days, a bit of stolen time with the kids. You must have realized that having children meant making some sacrifices?


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## QuackingPlums (Mar 10, 2004)

Pretty much everything in this thread so far explains why the state of our education system is as bad as it is. Nobody respects teachers any more, and everybody thinks that they have it easy. This attitude rubs off on the kids and they take it into school. With the nanny state being what it is, teachers have to accommodate these disruptive, disrespectful kids who are just reflections of their parents. All the other kids suffer, school performance goes down, the parents blame the teachers. Downward spiral. No wonder it's so hard to find good teachers who actually want to do the job.
If you're all convinced that teaching is all about long holidays and living the life of riley, why don't you all quit your fancy jobs and become one? The truth is that most of us wouldn't last 5 minutes. :roll:

No, I'm not a teacher, but I do appreciate that teachers are there to teach the kids and not be a nanny service. You had your kids, it's your responsibility to look after them. :wink:


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

jonson said:


> ResB said:
> 
> 
> > Only a minor annoyance, but my little boy who's 5 in August is already going to school and today, we have to make arrangements to either take a days holiday or send him to holiday club because the teachers have a "training day".
> ...


It wasn't really an issue albeit still an annoyance as my wife worked part time and 3 days a week, so she had flexible working hours. Since he started at school full time my wife had to change her hours to suit schooling. She works every day now from 9.15am until 2.15pm to accommodate taking and picking up the little boy from school, which is fine.

It's all to do with the introduction of trainee teachers. Long gone has the days where a teacher went to Uni, got their degrees then went into teaching. We all know that teachers worth their salt a few and far between, albeit I accept that there are a few exceptions to this rule but due to the lack of government incentives and this PC world we now find ourselves in no-one wants to do the job. So, along comes the government trying to make the career sound sexy again by offering "potentially" a Â£30k salary to teach. But it means that teaching assistants are on the increase who don't have the necessary qualifications or have some other meaningless watered down certificate from college which only took a year to get. Therefore the government now feels that on-site experience is the way to get them interested.

Seems stupid to me. Look, my mother is a teacher so I understand what the education system can be like sometimes and have some sympathy for all associated in education, the whole system has gone pear-shaped if you ask me. Meanwhile the kids lose out on their education because the teachers are too busy "teaching" other teachers who in my opinion will never make the grade as they are not sufficiently qualified. The blind leading the blind sometimes.

The government has a lot to answer for if you ask me and that's what pisses me off.


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

QuackingPlums said:


> Pretty much everything in this thread so far explains why the state of our education system is as bad as it is. Nobody respects teachers any more, and everybody thinks that they have it easy. This attitude rubs off on the kids and they take it into school. With the nanny state being what it is, teachers have to accommodate these disruptive, disrespectful kids who are just reflections of their parents. All the other kids suffer, school performance goes down, the parents blame the teachers. Downward spiral. No wonder it's so hard to find good teachers who actually want to do the job.
> If you're all convinced that teaching is all about long holidays and living the life of riley, why don't you all quit your fancy jobs and become one? The truth is that most of us wouldn't last 5 minutes. :roll:
> 
> No, I'm not a teacher, but I do appreciate that teachers are there to teach the kids and not be a nanny service. You had your kids, it's your responsibility to look after them. :wink:


What he said.


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## Hark (Aug 23, 2007)

ResB said:


> It's all to do with the introduction of trainee teachers. Long gone has the days where a teacher went to Uni, got their degrees then went into teaching. We all know that teachers worth their salt a few and far between, albeit I accept that there are a few exceptions to this rule but due to the lack of government incentives and this PC world we now find ourselves in no-one wants to do the job. So, along comes the government trying to make the career sound sexy again by offering "potentially" a Â£30k salary to teach. But it means that teaching assistants are on the increase who don't have the necessary qualifications or have some other meaningless watered down certificate from college which only took a year to get. Therefore the government now feels that on-site experience is the way to get them interested.
> 
> Seems stupid to me. Look, my mother is a teacher so I understand what the education system can be like sometimes and have some sympathy for all associated in education, the whole system has gone pear-shaped if you ask me. Meanwhile the kids lose out on their education because the teachers are too busy "teaching" other teachers who in my opinion will never make the grade as they are not sufficiently qualified. The blind leading the blind sometimes.
> 
> The government has a lot to answer for if you ask me and that's what pisses me off.


LOL
I agree some of the system is flawed and there are teachers out there who aren't much good. I would love to know on what evidence you say MOST teachers aren't worth their salt. Think OFSTED would disagree and they don't pull and punches when it comes to inspections.

I do love it when people seem to have no idea what they are talking about. Please explain what happens on these teacher training days as you seem to know so much. I'm part of the leadership team at my place and part of my role is training and development. As I organise, help to timetable and run some of these training sessions after school and on Inset days, I would love your educated insight in to why you don't think they are needed.

I find it strange that you think it is connected to NQT qualifications, GTP courses or HLTA/Level 3 Teaching Assistants and their role in school. Most of their training is completed by external assessors and through LA courses.

If that is what your school is using those days for then maybe you should contact the governors? I would have thought training days are outlined in the school improvement/development plan, which should be available to all parents.

:?


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

Matt,

Of course what I say is how I feel. I don't really know what goes on but that's the picture that's portrayed to me and just my opinion. Whether it's right or wrong I don't really know so your right to question my motives. There is no hidden agenda to be honest, I have a lot of time for teachers. I know a few secondary teachers personally and they are totally bemused with the profession/system and these teachers have been teaching for 20 to 30 years. I just wish they could get on with their profession without all the interference from outside sources, because "as a layman" things don't seem to be getting better. Remember, all I hear are the problems, not the positive side of things.

Just to reiterate I didn't say that training is not needed, I said they should do them at more pertinent times. Perhaps, if the job was more rewarding in more ways than one, then perhaps more people would be prepared to get their teaching degrees as opposed to learning on the job. It's the same as any profession, although learning on the job can be a good thing if the individuals stick it out, but I understand a significant number of trainees don't stick with it, so it's time and money down the drain. If I go on a training day, I don't send everyone home and ask them to wait until I get back, I have to organise my time off in a much more manageable fashion.

As to what trainees do at these training days is not the point. It's the fact they are done when my child loses his right to education on any given day. To be honest I'm not too bothered what they do but if you feel you could educate me as to what these trainees do at these "teacher training days" baring in mind you seem to suggest you organise such things, that would be great.

We chose the school for my little boy based on what parents thought and what OFSTED reported in the last few reports. Two months after starting school, the head decided she would move/change career which was a shock as most of the reports revolved around how well oranised and committed the head was to the school. lol

That said, just do the training on more practical days and if they can't, at least have some form of support teacher to stand in for the day. This way it doesn't affect my child's education. Simple really. :?


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## Hark (Aug 23, 2007)

There are a set number of days, I can't remember how many, that are set by government/local authority. Schools can't change these, but you do get to choose what you use them for. The teaching year so to speak doesn't include these days.

Didn't mean to get on my high horse and I understand that it must be difficult sorting childcare etc, but get annoyed as teaching seems to be an easy target sometimes.

As for what they are used for it depends on the school, but typically it will be government initiatives etc but mainly directly linked to the development of the school. eg.. training on new ICT equipment, new resources, new ways to plan, ways to stretch gifted chn or support lower achievers etc. I don't think the attitude that on the job training is comparable to not being fully qualified is right. Its more to do with continuing to develop staff so they improve.

As for supply cover, these days are whole staff training, it wouldn't be logistical to cover everyone. Not to mention the thousands each year you would pay on cover costs that would be taken away from your child.

Finally I do agree with you on one thing. Government incentives are a joke and do as you say draw people to a job for all the wrong reasons.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Jac-in-a-Box said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > No they are poor over-stressed, over-worked victims. Thank heavens they don't get punished with a whole 2 weeks off in summer like most of the over-indulged ungrateful public out there in their far less tiresome, busy and unstressed positions.
> ...


No Sarcasm. :roll: But on a serious note, you may underestimate the 'inconvenience' and impact of school hols to working families, and especially single mothers and single parents working when faced with child care challenges. Fortunately this is not an issue for us.

And BTW if it was viewed by any as a child-minding service, it certainly is NOT free for both tax payers and fee payers. That is a ridicuous supposition.

I will go back to an earlier point that the private school sector functions very well (generally outperforming State school in rankings) without a single In-Service day.


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## skiwhiz (Feb 17, 2008)

qooqiiu said:


> HARK,
> 
> Being a PE teacher doesn't make you a proper teacher. :lol:


PE teachers are the best  they often have to motivate the less academic and use sport as an incentive to motivate the kids to achieve

Yes I trained to be one many moons ago, and have advised on some of the changes we now see in PE & School Sport


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

skiwhiz said:


> qooqiiu said:
> 
> 
> > HARK,
> ...


Are we allowed to have both winners and losers these days? Or are we all winners? :wink:


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Hark said:


> Love how everyone has an opinion on teachers and education. If you go the pub or whatever and tell someone your a teacher, you can spend the next 10-15 min discussing their views on education.
> 
> I teach, you might have guessed. Some teachers get there at 8.30 and are out by 3.30, they are lazy depressive and think they have a tough time etc. Same kind of ppl in every job I think. This does not apply to all teachers.
> 
> ...


Ok - if you worked the school holidays you'd not need to take work home etc and be able to further your career though career related development.
Would it not make more sense to release some term stress from teachers by actually increasing the time that they spend at their workplace? You don't just need kids to be a teacher.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

saint said:


> Hark said:
> 
> 
> > Love how everyone has an opinion on teachers and education. If you go the pub or whatever and tell someone your a teacher, you can spend the next 10-15 min discussing their views on education.
> ...


Don't you go confusing a teacher with logic. :wink:


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## QuackingPlums (Mar 10, 2004)

garyc said:


> I will go back to an earlier point that the private school sector functions very well (generally outperforming State school in rankings) without a single In-Service day.


Yes, because rankings tell you everything you need to know about a school... just like the 0-60 time on a car tells me which one to buy... :roll: :wink:

Add up the total number of days that little Johnny is in class at a private school and compare it with the academic calendar at a state school - you'll find that you're looking after him just as often if not more... or at least paying for his boarding fees.



saint said:


> if you worked the school holidays you'd not need to take work home etc and be able to further your career though career related development.
> Would it not make more sense to release some term stress from teachers by actually increasing the time that they spend at their workplace? You don't just need kids to be a teacher.


Do you honestly think you can save up all that work that happens in the evening and weekends for the long summer holiday? 
During term time when the kids *are* around your evenings ane weekends are spent planning, marking, planning, assessing, and more planning - creative curriculum means you're planning 5 or 6 different ways to teach the same thing just because kids we used to call "a bit thick" are now given all kinds of science-y names and have to be catered for by different lesson plans and different ways of learning (De-Bono anyone? Kinesthetic learning?). 
By the time half term and summer comes along you need a couple of weeks to recover - oh, but they then your immune system catches up with you and you're struck down with cold/fly/<insert mystery illness>. 
In many cases the 5 or 6 week holiday (you only get 5 if you're in a multi-cultural area which recognises other cultural holidays such as Eid) is further cut short by meetings, preparation, oh, and more planning. 6 weeks seemed like an age when we were 6 but when you're a teacher it's a long weekend.

The "long" break is possibly the only perk of the job, name me another and I'll show you a MK2 that doesn't look good on RS4s...

If you want to really relieve the stress from teachers and improve the state of the education system then why don't we spread the 3 terms out evenly across the year, have lighter workloads, smaller classes, more non-contact time, fewer assessments.... oh hang on, that would cost us our long summer holidays and make us take EVEN MORE time off work to look after OUR OWN kids... :roll:

For a non-teacher I can certainly rant a lot about them... someone should hire me to be their lobbyist... :lol:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

QuackingPlums said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > I will go back to an earlier point that the private school sector functions very well (generally outperforming State school in rankings) without a single In-Service day.
> ...


Quite. :roll:

Like I said we have one at each - state, and independant day school, so we are possibly qualified to make the blanced claim that, forgetting the relative rankings, the output of the private sector is far better than one of the new flagship govt schools, which seems nothing but over-managed and over-measured.

And by 'output' I mean the general common sense (they call it life skills :lol: ), attitudes, sporting achievments, multi-cultural integration, manners, presentability, and general pleasant and far more mature demeanour, of the pupils.

That the exam results and subsequent attainments at higher education are markedly better, is also a big plus. As is longer tenure of teachers and lesser incidence of stress-related time off in the independant sector. State schools can learn alot from well run independants.

Oh and Jess got home last night having forgotten to tell us that she has an in service day this Friday. so the teachers can get their act together and strategise or whatever. Having forsaken one income so that Amanda can be at home, this is fortunately not an issue for us out of choice. When she was previously working she used to dread in service days and the longer hols, as it was a major problem logistically and financially.


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