# No future beyond mk3



## cheechy (Nov 8, 2006)

I can't seem to find this anywhere but surprised is not being discussed here.

I do believe that audi have announced that the facelift mk3 will be the last tt model.... until of course it's revived as a retro model In a few years.

For me I guess it's no surprise given the central slump In sales for coupes but what are everyone's thoughts?

For me in particular I think they put too much off a premium brand on the tt and overpriced. Indeed audi as a whole are doing this for me and i doubt my next car will be an Audi.

From the 5% premium over pre facelift prices are anything to go by i don't think they are taking any notice.


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## Alan Sl (Nov 11, 2009)

My trouble is that I actually like Audis, and have been fortunate to own many over the years ( but not in the same league as Toshiba). I have been frustrated over the last couple of years of their price increases and perceived quality. Three Audi purchases ago I vowed it would be my last. I just cannot find a range of cars within my budget that I can get excited about. Will my next car be an Audi - probably. Another issue for me is the cost of VED of vehicles over £40k ouch. In principle not happy about paying this, but as we know it's virtually impossible to get a well spec'd Audi for less than £40k but that's just me.


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

Time to let it fade away in favour of something new and exciting.

Still waiting for an R4, now that with some electric shove would be a winner in my book.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, E TT will be the next variant.
Hoggy.


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

Hoggy said:


> Hi, E TT will be the next variant.
> Hoggy.


Phone home !


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## no name (Feb 16, 2014)

I'm sure something will appear in it's place.

Hairdressers just can't afford R8's


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## ross_t_boss (Feb 28, 2017)

powerplay said:


> Still waiting for an R4, now that with some electric shove would be a winner in my book.


Same here, as long as it still has a 5-cyl option else it's not an option 

Personally I think my MK3 TTRS will be with me for a very long time, just nothing else that interests me without going up to a 911 turbo at triple the cost...


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## Blade Runner (Feb 16, 2018)

cheechy said:


> I can't seem to find this anywhere but surprised is not being discussed here.
> 
> I do believe that audi have announced that the facelift mk3 will be the last tt model.... until of course it's revived as a retro model In a few years.
> 
> ...


This is how rumours start! Lol. Unless you can find a link to an *official* Audi announcement then I don't believe a word of it! I think the TT is still pretty important to Audi, even if it doesn't make them as much money as some of the more mass market models.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Shared golf platform which is already confirmed as arriving soon. I can see the RS being dropped as it's a complete flop - that said, they didn't spend anything on developing it and could easily continue to just add the badge and engine to line cars.


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## RuuTT (Apr 22, 2010)

Went to the factory a few weeks ago. They confirmed work on a mk4 is already ongoing. However, it does look like it would be a coupe only as Audi has confirmed the roadster mk4 is cancelled, just like the A5 cabrio will not be renewed.


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## macaddict111 (Jun 13, 2018)

As soon as they come out with a TTE or TTH (electric/hybrid) that will be my next car. I wish they would apply the turbo 4 with electric and dual clutch like the Jetta Hybrid to other models.


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## Mark Pred (Feb 1, 2017)

Makes me laugh when people actually believe all this nonsense. They'll be mk4, 5, 6, 7 and so on and so forth... so don't worry, Audi are hardly likely to drop one of their primary models...


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, No future beyond the MK1 as far as I'm concerned. [smiley=argue.gif] 
Hoggy.


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## cheechy (Nov 8, 2006)

Mark Pred said:


> Makes me laugh when people actually believe all this nonsense. They'll be mk4, 5, 6, 7 and so on and so forth... so don't worry, Audi are hardly likely to drop one of their primary models...


I believed it was an official statement but I put it up for discussion so it could be debated.

Glad I have you a laugh big ultimately it didn't come as a surprise to me given how poorly the car is selling


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Who's saying sales are poor for the TT ? 
21.1k sold last year, 2016 was 26.8k, to compare against say the Q5 which sold 289k and was Audi's best selling car, it's not stella. But let's look at other years for comparison of the production numbers: 2015 35.4, 2014 17.5, 2013 18.2, 2012 22.8, 2011 25.5, 2010 25.9, 2009 22.8

Sales of the TT have declined in the uk (cars biggest market) based on two elements, dieselgate and brexit.
I could see the TTR going and I doubt many would care based on the numbers.


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## leopard (May 1, 2015)

Thousands,not millions :lol:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/267 ... ince-2009/


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

Toshiba said:


> Who's saying sales are poor for the TT ?
> 21.1M sold last year, 2016 was 26.8M, to compare against say the Q5 which sold 289M and was Audi's best selling car, it's not stella. But let's look at other years for comparison of the production numbers: 2015 35.4M, 2014 17.5M, 2013 18.2M, 2012 22.8, 2011 25.5, 2010 25.9, 2009 22.8
> 
> As expected sales of the TT have declined in the uk (cars biggest market) based on two elements, dieselgate and brexit.
> I could see the TTR going and I doubt many would care based on the numbers.


Sales pick up after 2014 with the introduction of the new model and then fade away over the next few years. Hence the need for face lifts.
Although TT sales are only trailed by the A7 and A8, manufacturers have long used a "sporty" model or version in their range of cars to make the brand as a whole have a more exiting and sporty feel to it, even if those promotional models don't make a profit. Whether Audi will continue to see the TT as an aspirational model that will attract other buyers to the brand is what will probably affect its future most.
As regards the roadster - it normally represents between a quarter and a third of all TT sales so its loss would be missed by many and if buyers look elsewhere for a convertible then that's a big chunk of sales lost by Audi.


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## Blade Runner (Feb 16, 2018)

Toshiba said:


> Who's saying sales are poor for the TT ?
> 21.1M sold last year, 2016 was 26.8M, to compare against say the Q5 which sold 289M and was Audi's best selling car, it's not stella. But let's look at other years for comparison of the production numbers: 2015 35.4M, 2014 17.5M, 2013 18.2M, 2012 22.8, 2011 25.5, 2010 25.9, 2009 22.8
> 
> Sales of the TT have declined in the uk (cars biggest market) based on two elements, dieselgate and brexit.
> I could see the TTR going and I doubt many would care based on the numbers.


Good to see some actual numbers, but I think that should be thousands (K) not M. Worldwide sales?
According to several sources, Audi sold approx 16,300 TT's (all variants) in Europe in 2017.

http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/audi/audi-tt/

As your figures also show, there was a general decline since 2009, then a huge spike (why was that?) in 2015.
Then a slow decline, so the sales now are about what they were back in 2010.
Not sure what proportion of that 16.3k TTs were sold in the UK in 2017..

It seems that, compared to other sports cars, sales of the TT sales have actually held up pretty well.
Its difficult to find sales data online for the TTRS specifically, so it seems like most of the comments are pure speculation.


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## tt3600 (Apr 8, 2006)

Total sales of Audi cars end of 2017 was 1.87m...


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

2010 was the facelift year for MK2, that's why it spikes. Same will happen with the MK3, it's right about where Audi would have predicted it would be given its stage in the cycle.

RS is just a rounding error, I can get the numbers but I'm not sure what it proves other than it's not selling. But let's mitigate that. It's been stop start this generation for many reasons (same as other line cars too, so again another factor in general declining numbers).


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## leopard (May 1, 2015)

Blade Runner said:


> Toshiba said:
> 
> 
> > Who's saying sales are poor for the TT ?
> ...


Don't know where my post disappeared to this morning but more data here :

https://www.statista.com/statistics/267 ... ince-2009/


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Numbers posted are correct and the source is Audi themselves...


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

Yeah my post from this morning disappeared too. But ....


Toshiba said:


> Who's saying sales are poor for the TT ?
> 21.1M sold last year, 2016 was 26.8M, to compare against say the Q5 which sold 289M and was Audi's best selling car, it's not stella. But let's look at other years for comparison of the production numbers: 2015 35.4M, 2014 17.5M, 2013 18.2M, 2012 22.8, 2011 25.5, 2010 25.9, 2009 22.8
> 
> Sales of the TT have declined in the uk (cars biggest market) based on two elements, dieselgate and brexit.
> I could see the TTR going and I doubt many would care based on the numbers.


Sales pick up after 2014 with the introduction of the new model and then fade away over the next few years. Hence the need for face lifts.

Figures I've seen suggest we are talking K not M and for Europe 20,922 TTs were sold in 2016 of which 9833 were sold in UK. Harder to compile world wide figures but sales in USA are in the 100s and in Asia, Africa and Aus are even less.
Unfortunately while world wide sales of Audis are increasing sales in UK saw a 5% fall. As the UK seems to represent almost half of the TT market you can see why Audi may be having second thoughts about a Mk4 TT.

Although TT sales are only trailed by the A7 and A8, manufacturers have long used a "sporty" model or version in their range of cars to make the brand as a whole have a more exiting and sporty feel to it, even if those promotional models don't make a profit. Whether Audi will continue to see the TT as an aspirational model that will attract other buyers to the brand is what will probably affect its future most.

As regards the roadster - it normally represents between a quarter and a third of TT sales so its loss would be missed by many and if buyers look elsewhere for a convertible then that's a big chunk of sales lost by Audi.


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## tt3600 (Apr 8, 2006)

Toshiba said:


> RS is just a rounding error, I can get the numbers but I'm not sure what it proves other than it's not selling.


There are reason for this and *Audi are to blame*

- They were a limited run late 2016 and pre-spec'd - i tried to order one repeatedly to my spec and couldn't
- You could only spec one from mid-2017 till early 2018 - as soon as Audi allowed me to order one to my spec l did
- You can't order one since early 2018 until possibly Sep 2018 when the face-lift arrives


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Yep, but those that were released didn't and haven't sold that's undisputed. It's not really done well this time around.. maybe price, maybe economy, maybe x, y or z...maybe all of the above. Numbers don't lie.


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## Alan Sl (Nov 11, 2009)

Toshiba said:


> Yep, but those that were released didn't and haven't sold that's undisputed. It's not really done well this time around.. maybe price, maybe economy, maybe x, y or z...maybe all of the above. Numbers don't lie.


I wasn't aware that there was a glut of unsold TT's. I would be keen on getting a bargain deal on a TTS Roadster if there were any. Drive the Deal for example have massive discounts on most Audi's according to their website - but the TT is not one of them.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

I wasn't talking S, context for the above was RS. Still unsold ones around months after production stopped. But the price challenge I'd say also exists/existed for that model too.


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

Some figures for you from UK Gov DoT -
No of cars first registered (doesn't mean sold) -
*Model-----2018-----2017-----2016*
TTRS........136.......125.......173
TTS..........267.....1119......1202 
TT..........1627......6511.....8458


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

The numbers from Audi are to the single digit
A quick check and TTR is about 19% of sales.. I've not checked every year and averaged. I just took 2016 as a guide - for good or bad.


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

Toshiba said:


> The numbers from Audi are to the single digit
> A quick check and TTR is about 19% of sales.. I've not checked every year and averaged. I just took 2016 as a guide - for good or bad.


As I recall these were the European figures ...
----------Coupe----Roadster	
2011___12.341___4.676__27%
2012___9.802____3.821__28%
2013___9.017____3.314__27%
2014___7.529____2.239__23%
2015___17.994___4.423__20%
2016___15.854___5.068__24%
2017___12.31____3.971__24%

Edit: %ages corrected now.


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## Blade Runner (Feb 16, 2018)

ZephyR2 said:


> Some figures for you from UK Gov DoT -
> No of cars first registered (doesn't mean sold) -
> *Model-----2018-----2017-----2016*
> TTRS........136.......125.......173
> ...


Brilliant, thanks.
So pulling that together for one year (2017)..
Total Audi car sales worldwide = 1.87m
Total Audi car sales in Europe = 860,000 (see link below)
So, the TT (16.3k) represented about 2% of those European sales.
I would have guessed about 5%, but it is a bit lower.

Agree with your "loss leader" argument. All big manufactures do it.
Audi know that the TT is not going to sell in big numbers, but nearly every motoring mag article you read refers to the TT as "Audi's iconic coupe/roadster" and the Audi marketing men aren't going to throw away that sort of brand image in a hurry.

As you point out, the UK evidently represents a bit less than half of total European TT sales, and the TTRS represents about 2% of total TT sales/registrations in the UK.

https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/2018/01/Audi_sales_17.html


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## MClaine55 (Feb 16, 2018)

Oh and it's very Bauhaus too


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Your math is wrong, you appear to have taken TTR as a % of TTC


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## jtray2006 (Nov 21, 2016)

My experience with Audi is to say the least pretty crap. I have an A1 Black Edition pretty well loaded i.e panoramic roof, two tone paint plus much much more also a Mk3 S Line Roadster with 4 grands worth of extras which would be pretty much standard these days with any other manufacturer. That said I certainly will not be buying another Audi, the after sales and reliability has been crap. I have been around for many years and I find your website a breath of fresh air that said you do seem to have the obligatory ########## I don't know who he thinks he is but his, at times, know it all and obnoxious input does your website no good whatsoever this guy has his head up his own arse.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Here to pls, let me know how I can enhance your time/experience here even further


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

Toshiba said:


> Your math is wrong, you appear to have taken TTR as a % of TTC


Ah yes your right. I'll have another go later. Thanks.

Edit: Corrected now.


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## Blade Runner (Feb 16, 2018)

ZephyR2 said:


> Some figures for you from UK Gov DoT -
> No of cars first registered (doesn't mean sold) -
> *Model-----2018-----2017-----2016*
> TTRS........136.......125.......173
> ...


Not sure what's going on with the site, but some posts in this thread have obviously gone missing at various points in the day. This is one I posted this morning..

So pulling data together for one year (2017)..
Total Audi car sales worldwide = 1.87m
Total Audi car sales in Europe = 860,000 (see link below)
So, the TT (at 16.3k) represented about 2% of those European sales.
I would have guessed about 5%, but it is a bit lower.

Agree with your "loss leader" argument. All big manufactures do it.
Audi know that the TT is not going to sell in big numbers, but nearly every motoring mag article you read refers to the TT as "Audi's iconic coupe/roadster" and the Audi marketing men aren't going to throw away that sort of brand image in a hurry.

As you point out, the UK evidently represents a bit less than half of total European TT sales, and the TTRS represents about 2% of total TT sales in the UK.

https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/2018/01/Audi_sales_17.html


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Doesn't the TT have a 22-23% profit margin and that's without AG sales/promotion support?? So as long as discounts given to the end customer are below that number AUK make money on every car..


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## Omychron (Sep 9, 2016)

Toshiba said:


> Doesn't the TT have a 22-23% profit margin and that's without AG sales/promotion support?? So as long as discounts given to the end customer are below that number AUK make money on every car..


Yet that profit margin might just be over production cost, and not take into account R&D?
Then again, a large portion of the car's tech is that of the Golf GTI, R, Audi Q2..., so that investment cost is spread over multiple models...


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## Blade Runner (Feb 16, 2018)

Omychron said:


> Toshiba said:
> 
> 
> > Doesn't the TT have a 22-23% profit margin and that's without AG sales/promotion support?? So as long as discounts given to the end customer are below that number AUK make money on every car..
> ...


Audi profits jumped significantly in 2017, despite the fact that most of their better known cars (A1, A3, Q3) sold in far fewer numbers (between 10-16%) than 2016. The TT took the biggest hit apparently (23% down), but the firm was rescued by sales of the Q7, A5 (sales up 58%!) and the A4, which sells in huge numbers. And Lamborghini etc. As said though, its about the margins, as they can obviously suffer significantly reduced sales in some areas and still make a massive after-tax profit overall of about £3 billion! The article below says that the _overall_ profit margin for 2017 was 8.4%, which is apparently within Audi's "target" of 8-10%. Of course, individual models may differ widely as this is obviously an average.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/audi-records-68-leap-profit-dieselgate-effect-fades


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