# ive fixed the tt understeer yey



## bmx (May 25, 2003)

golf v6 4 motion rear anti rollbar Â£40 from dealer,only 2mm thicker but my tt feels more ballanced,a lot less understeer, best Â£40 ive spent in ages, go on do it  8)


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## boggie (May 8, 2002)

Sounds interesting! I had a mildly scary moment on the way back from my gym this afternoon, threw the car right into a junction and it understeered very badly - almost hit the kerb with my lovely RS alloys!  
A bit of left foot on the brakes sorted me so and when I got home I checked the tyre pressures only to find both fronts were 6lbs down. :? 
Still even with the correct pressures the post-handling recall TT has a tendancy to understeer so any help would be great. Was it easy to fit?
Boggie


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

it took me 2 hours on ramps though, its easy , the hard bit is putting the clamps back over the rubbers, you need a hand to compress the rubbers while you put the bolts back in. or get a garage to do it. 2 hours labour, well worth it. what thickness is your bar at the moment?


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## boggie (May 8, 2002)

While Wicked wheels were working their magic I had a quick look. The anti-roll bar that crosses the rear of the car is just under 14mm thick and goes through a rubber U mount on each side. This is then connected via a vertical connection bar each end.
I assume you keep the end links but replace the lateral anti-roll bar. What diameter is the 4 motion bar? My car is a 2002 spec with the GMBH competition suspention, what's yours?
Cheers, Boggie


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## JimPat (Jul 30, 2003)

The Neuspeed 19mm anti-roll bar is generally recommended for dialling in some more oversteer (or cancelling understeer if you like). This bar seems cost effective at Â£40 though.

Cheers


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

ian, see this thread, LeeS3's post... you may have missed it: http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... hp?t=28011


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## boggie (May 8, 2002)

Cheers Irving - I had missed that!

OK for Â£40 I think it may be worth experimenting with the 16mm rear ARB. As far as I can see the part number for this is 1j0 511 409j but what is the numbers for the buhses to hold it in place or is it possible to squeeze the existing ones to fit?
Cheers Boggie


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

yeh the bushes are all the same and will work again, although i got new ones. my arb was 14mm the 16mm 4 mo one just stiffens it up nice, had the back end out whilst playing out on some twisty stuff yesterday  something that wouldnt of happend before...you can get a 19mm arb from a later 4 mo or an r32 the code finshes with a k instead of j but these are Â£90 and IMO may cause too much oversteer if you dont put a 23mm arb on the front


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## boggie (May 8, 2002)

OK, I am nearly sold on this mod but are you sure you have not increased oversteer whilst reducing the overall grip of the car? Maybe the understeer will still happen at the same speeds / lateral loads as before but now the car will oversteer before you reach that point. :? 
I guess the only true way to test this would be to do a track day, and change your ARB mid session to see if times increase.


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## little_blue (Mar 2, 2004)

i am also looking for a solution to the understeer on my V6.

when driving fairly fast, especially powering out of corners, the car always wants to run wide, and i want it to hold its line. the only solution is to ease off the gas a bit to bring it back on line.

its the only thing that really bugs me about the car, otherwise, i love it

i would like to see what can be done to reduce the oversteer, so any solutions would be gratefull.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

little_blue said:


> i am also looking for a solution to the understeer on my V6.
> 
> when driving fairly fast, especially powering out of corners, the car always wants to run wide, and i want it to hold its line. the only solution is to ease off the gas a bit to bring it back on line.
> 
> ...


I'm no expert on these things, but I understand the TT is designed to understeer - and the V6 particularly so. If you remember the video of it powering around the Top Gear test track, they managed to get it to understeer at every opportunity. Partly because they were driving it "wrong", but partly because that is what the beast wil inherently do...

It is essentially a FWD car with a heavy engine in the front...

The 225 had arguably better weight distribution, but Mk II of it had its suspension redesigned to add in a bit of understeer.

If your quest is for a neutral handling TT, you need a Mk I 225 (with a spolier if you want it, and ESP, but not the recall suspension work)

I would imagine Audi kept the suspension configuration as close to the Mk II as they could for the V6, but with the added weight of the V6 lump mounted in the front, unless you address the problem of weight distribution and suspension geometry, I think you are fighting a losing battle...


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

> am also looking for a solution to the understeer on my V6.


 as far as i know there is a scientific way of working it out, but im not that brainy. mine had a 14mm arb on the rear and understeered .i then fitted a 16mm arb and the understeer was dramaticly reduced, and i even had the tail waggin out on my favourite twistys, im going to eat my words and fit the 19mm arb this weekend in my quest for a perfect ballance. ps just check what size you have, even the late v6 4 motions were fitted with a 19mm arb after complaints about soggyness. the R32 has a 19mm arb and they handle mint


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## little_blue (Mar 2, 2004)

never having worked on my TT, how easy is it to change the ARB and where can i buy the new thicker ones from?

i have done alot or work on my motorbikes, so i know my way around a set of spanners, just never done anything on the car.


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

easy to do just a bit fidly. you need a pair of ramps or idealy a four poster ramp. parts department at vw dealers takes two days to get em in. and the 19mm ones are Â£85 inc vat i think. what size rear arb does your v6 have on now?


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## boggie (May 8, 2002)

little_blue said:


> never having worked on my TT, how easy is it to change the ARB and where can i buy the new thicker ones from?
> 
> i have done alot or work on my motorbikes, so i know my way around a set of spanners, just never done anything on the car.


Very easy!

Jack-up and support the rear of the car.
Remove both rear wheels.
ARB is connected to the rear of the hubs by a short upright, undo this connection on each side.
Undo and remove the 2 'U' brackets holding the ARB onto the bodywork.
Slide the ARB out.

HTH, Boggie


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

i take it youve done it then boggie ? what size did you fit ? whats your verdict?


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## little_blue (Mar 2, 2004)

sounds easy enough, where can i get/order a new thicker ARB from?


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## boggie (May 8, 2002)

bmx said:


> i take it youve done it then boggie ? what size did you fit ? whats your verdict?


Not yet - just had a look at what needs doing. As soon as I find the time to get / fit one I will let you know but I think I am going to try the 16mm rear ARB for starters.

What comments have you got on my question:


> are you sure you have not increased oversteer whilst reducing the overall grip of the car? Maybe the understeer will still happen at the same speeds / lateral loads as before but now the car will oversteer before you reach that point.


Cheers, Boggie


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

boggie said:


> little_blue said:
> 
> 
> > never having worked on my TT, how easy is it to change the ARB and where can i buy the new thicker ones from?
> ...


Sounds an interesting mod, will the arb slide out with the exhaust in place? Is it worth considering using Forge Poly bushes in the replacment and should you use copperslip to lube the bushes on refitting?


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## robquatt (Oct 20, 2003)

This sounds like exactly what i am looking for, the understeer is the ***** in the cars armour and i would rather it oversteered than understeered. On track days it proves so frustrating following other cars at full bore round a lap then on certain corners they apex perfectly and i drift wide like a fat wooly mammoth of a motor. the 19mm sounds like the one for me. bmx you have pm.


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## Rhod_TT (May 7, 2002)

Damn. More easy money to spend. Had a good go at some roundabouts recently and the car does wash wide unless you lift off (but then anything tucks in when you lift off).


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## boggie (May 8, 2002)

Wak said:


> boggie said:
> 
> 
> > little_blue said:
> ...


Seemed very easy to me when I took the wheels off for a butchers. Looked like the ARB would easily slide past the exhaust. About an hours work I guess and no special tools (apart from the nail gun but you can borrow mine)


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

it really is an easy job, undu the 4 x13mm bolts.and the ones on either end 17mm i think. the bar just pulls out, if the cars high enough, you dont have to take the wheels off, and it just pulls past the exhaust. then as wak said , lube up the rubbers, no need to get new ones as your goin from 14mm diameter to 19mm, its a squeeze though. better to use a small G clamp because the bolts are very short . 15mm arb= 1j0511409h 16mm=1j0511409j 19mm=1j0511409k 16mm is Â£40 and 19mm is Â£85


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

LeeS3 said:


> The S3 community are at it too.
> 
> But be aware that the chasis mods that audi did to reduce accidents in the the early days were in effect changing the set up of the arb combination.
> 
> ...


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## LeeS3 (Mar 24, 2004)

Just a word for those who may have missed it. The previous workings out are for the S3 running standard 19 front arb/ 15 rear arb. Obviously the calculations apply to the 225 TT coupe also, but I'd be very wary applying the same settings to the TT roadster or 3.2 TTs. The calcs also assume the front bar is 19mm.

As pointed out the pre-recall handling 225s had 19mm front and 15mm rear. And there was issues with oversteer (ie. lift off mid bend.. for the inexperienced drivers)

So going to 19mm front/ 16mm rear on the 225 already exceeds what audi deemed recallable (something I am sure they wouldn't do lightly!).

Going to 19mm/19mm is extreme and conuter productive as without changing the front you aren't maximising the stiffness, rather you are introducting a certain amount of unpredictabilty to the handling. The car may feel fine with 19/16 but pushing it to 19/19 may make the back end brake away very suddenly on hard cornering - and off you spin!

I'd personally only consider uprating the 225 TTc rear to 15 or 16 if you aren't going to change the front. And for the 3.2s or roadsters I'd speak with a tuning specialist before you do any changes.


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

ive asked a member who has the 19mm rear bar and he says its spot on. not tail happy or owt.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

It would be interesting to see if Roland from GTT has anything to say about this. WHen I spoke to him about running the piece in absoluTTe, he talked about one of thier guys whose expertise is in doing just this sort of thing.

Might be worth a PM to see what he has to say. I'll send him one.


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## AudaciousTT (Jul 3, 2004)

Neuspeed 19mm rear sway is probably the single most satisfying mod i could have done...transformed the TT. I lowered muffler for easier install.
Make sure it is really, really ,well lubed. I didn't lube to good at initial install and it squeked within days..re-lubed with some good stuff and all was quiet! I really love the transformation in handling...It is not tail happy. But, it will now drift really nice if you want it to.
Great mod!


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## robquatt (Oct 20, 2003)

I gave that part number for the 19mm rear arb from a golf r32 to my mate who works at vw parts and he says its the part number for the whole axel?!?! Can anyone shed any light on this.


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

robquatt said:


> I gave that part number for the 19mm rear arb from a golf r32 to my mate who works at vw parts and he says its the part number for the whole axel?!?! Can anyone shed any light on this.


Just checked this in ekta

1j0 511 409k

and it is listed as a Golf 4motion 19mm rear arb! mine is an old version so R32 isnt in there but it looks correct to me.


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## boggie (May 8, 2002)

Wak said:


> robquatt said:
> 
> 
> > I gave that part number for the 19mm rear arb from a golf r32 to my mate who works at vw parts and he says its the part number for the whole axel?!?! Can anyone shed any light on this.
> ...


You up for it Wak?
I think I am going to give the 16mm bar a try, should have one next week. Maybe you could come over to mine this time and we can do both. I'll put the kettle on and you can write up the experience for wak-tt.com.
One thing that bothers me though is that BMX has, after only having the 16mm ARB for 2 weeks...


> "upgraded to a neuspeed kit"


 and disposed of the new ARB he was raving about :wink: 
What's the story BMX? :?: :? :wink:

Boggie


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

boggie said:


> You up for it Wak?
> 
> Boggie


Thinking about it, I'll let you know after I visit AmD on Monday.


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

the 16mm is early 4 mo golf, and the 19mm was from the 4 mo when the revised the handling because of complaints it was too soggy. 19mm is also on the R32 golf. dont get me wrong the 16mm is a reallygood upgrade and does the job nicely. in fact it feels like youve fixed something that was bust, if you know what i mean. but the 19mm transforms the handling one of the best things ive ever done for Â£85, ps i also noticed AudaciousTT has a 19mm arb fitted, might be worth seeing what he thinks of his.


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## V6 TT (Sep 24, 2002)

.......what's the chances of this 19mm arb fitting my V6? Or would it already be fitted as per Golf R32?

Cheers

Dean


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## Jazzedout (May 8, 2002)

I think that V6 is 21mm front, 14mm rear.


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

V6 TT said:


> .......what's the chances of this 19mm arb fitting my V6? Or would it already be fitted as per Golf R32?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dean


 just bob your head under and have a measure, i should think a 19mm would go on if it hasnt got one already


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## V6 TT (Sep 24, 2002)

.......cheers guys, I'll take a look at lunch......

Dean


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

bmx said:


> the 16mm is early 4 mo golf, and the 19mm was from the 4 mo when the revised the handling because of complaints it was too soggy. 19mm is also on the R32 golf. dont get me wrong the 16mm is a reallygood upgrade and does the job nicely. in fact it feels like youve fixed something that was bust, if you know what i mean. but the 19mm transforms the handling one of the best things ive ever done for Â£85, ps i also noticed AudaciousTT has a 19mm arb fitted, might be worth seeing what he thinks of his.


Is that Â£85 for the Neuspeed or the VAG Part? 
:?

Why did you choose Neuspeed over the VAG version?


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## V6 TT (Sep 24, 2002)

.......also, do the different size Powerflex bushes come the the appropriate ARB or is there seperate part no's for those? Costs? Whats the best grease to use? Any specific type?

Cheers

Dean


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

audi 19mm arb is Â£85inc neuspeed kit is 19mm rear 23mm front and is Â£300


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## original_tt (Mar 11, 2003)

Point to mention guys and gals - when aud recalled the cars not only did they change the suspension rates/fit ESP/fit the spoiler - They also changed the front wishbones !!
I have seen (on the old Forum) an EBAY auction of the original wishbones in the states where the winning bid was about $700 !!
Someone (Forge??) was considering remanufacturing the originals but I don't know if this ever came to market.
You could always try buying an unmodified orignal TT to see how it should drive !! (Mine's not for sale!!!)


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## fire_storm (Jun 10, 2003)

This sounds like a great mod, coming from an MX-5 the one thing I hate about my TT is the understeer, would this modification work for a FWD TTR.


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## robquatt (Oct 20, 2003)

Got 1 on order, they are out of stock country wide and the 19mm r32 arb's are in transit should arrive late next week. If i spin off and die at 140mph like a crowt ill haunt you bmx!!!! :lol:


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

70miles of driving with the 19mm bar on the back and it was a bit wet but The car feels transformed.

I need to get some more dry time driving in but it felt much more balanced in the wet throwing it into a few corners. so far .... an excellent mod... thanks bmx!


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## Jazzedout (May 8, 2002)

So as I understand it he 19mm bar gives a more RWD feel doesn't it? But is it reducing the understeer or increasing the oversteer? I mean does it improve the handling? is it possible that you think it has less understeer because the tail starts to slide earlier? Just my thoughts, might be complete bs but I try to understand what is really the case. Am going to change shocks and springs soon, and it sounds like a nice mod to go with them. :?


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## V6 TT (Sep 24, 2002)

Wak said:


> 70miles of driving with the 19mm bar on the back and it was a bit wet but The car feels transformed.
> 
> I need to get some more dry time driving in but it felt much more balanced in the wet throwing it into a few corners. so far .... an excellent mod... thanks bmx!


.......I feel a WAK pic by pic DIY coming on! I'll be holding my breath!

Cheers

Dean


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

V6 TT said:


> Wak said:
> 
> 
> > 70miles of driving with the 19mm bar on the back and it was a bit wet but The car feels transformed.
> ...


unfortunatly....AmD did it for me! :?  as I was having some other work done! :?


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## little_blue (Mar 2, 2004)

how much did AMD charge to fit it?

did you have any other handling mods done at the same time that may have also helped with the understeer problem?

i guess i'm trying to find out if you had a few things done, that as a package fixed the understeer, or whether the only handling mod done was the new ARB....


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## RMTT (Jul 10, 2004)

Wak, did you have poly or rubber bushes put in? I am due back at AMD to have the adjustable tie rods put on the back, to get rid of the broken axel look I am currently carrying. Oh and I am having poly bushes on the front arb to get rid of the squeaking and to tighten her up a bit (oh err). So was thinking of getting this mod done. Any more dry weather feedback?

Cheers, Richard.


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

Amd removed the exhaust so 1 hours labour. TTOC members can get a discount so join up if you havent already done so.

I already have koni coilovers, but this was the only handling mod done yesterday.

I bought the 19mm rubber bushes and they have had a copper grease added to them.

I couldnt find rear poly bushes to fit a 19mm arb Powerflex only seem to do a 14mm bush, with the creaking that can occur anyway squeezing a 14mm bush on a 19mm arb is not a good thing to so IMO! 


but not feeling well today, so havent been out driving. :?


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## turbomike61 (Jul 20, 2004)

I'm a little confused here guys...

I have a '03 225 TT R, and since new it has suffered from flick oversteer. This is especially the case if you have to change directions a couple of time very quickly, like evading debris on the road (quick right/left). On the second turn, the rear continues on it's merry way and I have to catch it. I've since put coil overs on it, but that has had little effect on the oversteer. I still have the usual neg camber on the rear from the lowering. In Australia, K Mac make ecsentric poly bushes to remedy this which are my next mod (I would never use "cut and shut" suspension parts). My tyres are 235 ContiSportContact II's. By the time I get understeer, the car is doing some serious 4 wheel drifting.

BTW, an A4 Quattro handles a LOT better than a TTQ once it's set up properly, so which is meant to be the sports car?


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

mike,

What you experience is the expected result of the 'Scandanavian Flick' - so named as its how the Swedish rally drivers in the early FWD Saabs managed to get the back end out to improve cornering times. Its one of the few ways you can get oversteer on a FWD/4WD car... by flicking one way then the other you unsettle the suspension and can therefore cause the rear to break away... wait for the nose to come round to the direction required and power out of the slide... works a treat on my Saab  as well as the TTR... but harder to get the same result on the TT as the ESP usually catches it long before the backend goes away (unless switched off of course ) (errr... you do have ESP?)

Without the flick the front of the TT does tend to drift out on cornering hard, altough letting up slightly in the corner causes it to tuck-in. The ARB mods discussed here reduce the tendency to drift wide but can't remove it altogether as all FWD cars understeer (too much weight forward of the CofR)


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## garvin (May 7, 2002)

Jazzedout said:


> ......... But is it reducing the understeer or increasing the oversteer? I mean does it improve the handling? is it possible that you think it has less understeer because the tail starts to slide earlier? Just my thoughts, might be complete bs but I try to understand what is really the case...........


Good question well put! I would expect this mod to do exactly what you infer i.e. induce more oversteer at the back rather than drive understeer out of the front. The car may feel more balanced because it corners 'flatter' and feels more neutral in its attitude but it could well make the car ultimately handle less well and be more twitchy on the limit - especially in the wet! The only way to really tell (due to the complex interactions at work between front and rear set ups) is to really test the car out on a track or airfield - after all this is what the chassis/suspension engineers at the car manufacturers do to test their designs.


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## Jazzedout (May 8, 2002)

Garvin that is exactly what I meant, but my english is not that good. :roll:


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

ive just been out doin a bit more playin with 19 arb, and i have got to say this is a must have mod for every TT ,


> Jazzedout wrote:
> ......... But is it reducing the understeer or increasing the oversteer? I mean does it improve the handling? is it possible that you think it has less understeer because the tail starts to slide earlier? Just my thoughts, might be complete bs but I try to understand what is really the case...........


 thats not the case.. before the 19 the car was soggy and felt heavy, wollowing into corners, which then upsets the front, and the tyres then break away , to cause the understeer, but since the 19 the car feels lighter , and when tiped into a corner the rear is staying more rigid, which isnt upsetting the front, when it does breakaway its nicely ballanced .. you dont know what your missing, also you dont need to drop the exhaust to fit one, standard exhaust that is, but i know wak did. i wonder if thats because hes got a miltek??


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

My exhaust was dropped because my prototype box had a rattle in it, all sorted now.

It wasnt dropped to fit the arb, its was just convenient to do it then.


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

are you still enjoying it wak? im loving mine. just done the cat and fiddle run today with mine... it feels spot on, ive fallen back in love with my TT  and all because of a bar


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

> how much did AMD charge to fit it?
> 
> did you have any other handling mods done at the same time that may have also helped with the understeer problem?
> 
> i guess i'm trying to find out if you had a few things done, that as a package fixed the understeer, or whether the only handling mod done was the new ARB....


 just the bar sorts it out, no real need for anything else. any mechanic could do this mod , no real need for AMD or a specialist. they would probably charge you about Â£50 i guess ,i am neer to you and would do it for you for a spin on the gsxr


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## chainy (Feb 6, 2003)

Kell said:


> It would be interesting to see if Roland from GTT has anything to say about this. WHen I spoke to him about running the piece in absoluTTe, he talked about one of thier guys whose expertise is in doing just this sort of thing.
> 
> Might be worth a PM to see what he has to say. I'll send him one.


Anybody hear from Roland about this yet. I'm aching to order a rear 19mm arb but want some re-assurance from a pro first.


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## oettinger1.8T (Feb 3, 2004)

Just went & orderd mine today , 16mm one for Â£39.91, the bloke at the parts desk asked what car i had, i said an Audi TT, he gave me a puzzled expression & said the item is non refundable


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## chainy (Feb 6, 2003)

oettinger1.8T said:


> Just went & orderd mine today , 16mm one for Â£39.91, the bloke at the parts desk asked what car i had, i said an Audi TT, he gave me a puzzled expression & said the item is non refundable


Thats pretty funny !

VAG parts said they can supply me with one within 5 days for Â£53.80 +vat and the bushes for Â£1.60 +vat. Delivery by courier would be Â£18.

Works out to around the same as VW charge and i dont even have to get off of my bum!


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

bmx said:


> are you still enjoying it wak?


NO :x Im here and the car is there! and I cant drive it! cos I'm here and its there.

so I would be enjoying it but I cant!


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## robquatt (Oct 20, 2003)

19mm rear ARB was fitted today, what can i say the difference is unbeleivable. The whole car feels tighter, turn in is much much better and understeer seems all but gone with the car breaking into a 4 wheel slide before the front loses traction. It's early days yet and tracks and fast islands have yet to be attacked but down the best twisty roads round here it is twice the car it was before. I'm a very happy bunny.


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## pumaro (Apr 17, 2003)

I do not believe this has lasted this long since went on holiday some 3 weeks ago....

What Understeer are u guys on about?

:wink:


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## robquatt (Oct 20, 2003)

This thread should run forever and ever because for Â£90 you can make the tt the car it should be not a wobbly front ended wash out machine, no mod has made me happier it has restored my faith in my car and i love it more than ever, i'm off outside to lick it.


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## AudaciousTT (Jul 3, 2004)

Front pushes when cornering hard and is all but eliminated when the 19mm rear sway is added...Might be the one best mod you can do to these cars!


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## rolandgttuning (Jan 6, 2004)

Hi Guys,
I havent tried this on aTT (But I may!). Thicker rear ARB does increase oversteer,(you are not altering the front grip) you are inducing rear slide which feels V similar to reduced understeer. Which is fine in a backwards sort of way.There is a way of driving a TT very effectivly (Flat out cornering) that on Std ARBs holds the front in and gives an incredibly unnervous and V fast drive.;
Just see-saw the steering wheel (rock side to side) all through the corner ,about 2rocks per second & about 20 degrees either side of desired turn. TBH its a 'feel 'thing& works on any FWD car too. Im damn sure if the stig had done that hed have got that V6 round the Top Gear track alot quicker than he did .Im also sure Steve would have driven it a lot better (Quicker ) than stig. It was painful to watch!


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Sorry guys, forgot about this thread, though Roland did send me back the following on August 2. (Which is pretty much waht he has to say here.)



> Hi Kell
> Thicker rear ARB increases oversteer,or thinner front ARB ditto. This can be read as reducing understeer.I run Std ARB's on our TT. Just PSS9,GTT Strutbrace,& 17MM spacers all round.I find this spot on,it allows me to
> see- saw the wheel at 'on the limit' cornering with no understeer,giving excellent confidence &accuracy .An unsettled car is IMO always preferable
> Hope this is of some help
> Regards Roland.


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

rolandgttuning said:


> Im also sure Steve would have driven it a lot better (Quicker ) than stig. It was painful to watch!


Is this the same Steve who hit the cones at Brooklands! :wink: :lol:


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## rolandgttuning (Jan 6, 2004)

Wak Yes that one ! He also has a car called a Jester so we call him the joker in a jester (or jester in a joker) . Im sorry but the fact he'd never even sat in the car he borrowed until one minute before is no excuse!
WE DO NOT TOLERATE FAILURE IN ZIS ORGANISATION!


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

Its alright, I saw I hit a bail reversing into the garage after Mighty_Tee sent me the video! 

Just added some arb pics if you are interested
http://www.wak-tt.com/mods/arb/arb.htm

Plus last night had the family peeling them selves off the side glass..... Kids:- "That was fun"
Missus:- "Its like a Thorpe Park Ride"

I guess thats a big thumbs up for the ARB mod! it really does work well, I have felt more in control, and more balanced than the car has ever been.

Why should the R32 boys have all the fun! 
I got mine from www.vagparts.com ( [email protected] )when Audi said it was on backorder, I think Major Parts Guru is forgotten as a useful resource but give him a go.

I know he is busy, but if you can get the part numbers you want and are sure of them, he's much quicker to respond than if you just ask for a 19mm arb!

Anyone know what size the TTV6 comes with?


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## TTej (Sep 10, 2003)

right after all the um'ing and ar'in, i have broken my china money pig, counted all the coppers, and have enough for the ARB. 19mm for me, would have been ordered today but local VW garage wont take card over phone anymore have to go in, so after the weekend when im back from Ireland ill be orderig mine. Cant wait! ill keep you posted

Thanks BMX, nice work fella 8)


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

This is the first mod i'm seriously considering, mainly cos it's cheap 

Will it really make a difference tho' apart from on the track, which i have no intention of doing, I like to "give it some" thru twisty bits tho' do you guys think it's worth me having done? :?


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## fire_storm (Jun 10, 2003)

After reading this thread I too have gone and ordered anti-rool bars for my FWD TTR, unfortunately i am not as lucky as you Quottro boys and can't get a VW item off the shelf. I have ordered the Eibach kit which should be available sometime in september. Its also costing 4x as much as the bar the rest of you are using :x

However hopefully should make a huge difference. http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?id=1567.310


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Of course the natural trade off you will make for increasing rear roll stiffness in order to dial out some understeer, is that of decreased wet weather grip and increased 'twtching' on the limit of wet grip, as opposed to the steady state breakaway tuned into the chassis by Audi.

There is alway as a compromise when one starts fiddling with the chassis settings.

I had the mki TT chassis, before the recall, which had more toe-in on front end for sharper steering and a stiffer rear end. It was a much sharper handling car than the mkii, but was more of a handful at the limit and in very high speed corners when something caused the pilot to have to adust balance of car. It's a far more benign chassis these days.

Be careful out there.


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## AndrewS (May 7, 2002)

I would have to echo the last comment. My car 180 FWD definitely likes to twitch at the back-end at high speed cornering when coming off the throttle to change gears. Changing the ARB will certainly reduce the understeer in slower corners (< 80mph) but may make the car a little dangerous at high speed lift off.

Just be careful out there and don't overdo it. Test the car and get to know it because it may well feel a whole lot better at 60mph but make sure it doesn't snap away too quickly at 120mph+


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## rolandgttuning (Jan 6, 2004)

Andrew This is a very good point .For low speed twisty circuits an 
'oversteery' set up is best. For v. high speed fast bends a more 'understeery' less nervous set up is better. You do not want the back stepping out in the wet at 120mph.
PS I know I keep saying it but get those rear tyre pressures down a bit.


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## TTej (Sep 10, 2003)

rolandgttuning said:


> I know I keep saying it but get those rear tyre pressures down a bit.


Roland i have got 17comps, so whats the best pressure setup to have, i'm currently running whatever it says uder the petrol cap


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

digimeisTTer said:


> This is the first mod i'm seriously considering, mainly cos it's cheap
> 
> Will it really make a difference tho' apart from on the track, which i have no intention of doing, I like to "give it some" thru twisty bits tho' do you guys think it's worth me having done? :?


 yep just do it, its a must do


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## rolandgttuning (Jan 6, 2004)

Tej If you dont want to go mad , try dropping the backs 3-4 psi ,say 26psi. Always check when fully cold.Certainly seems to improve rear grip.
IMO.


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## TTej (Sep 10, 2003)

rolandgttuning said:


> Tej If you dont want to go mad , try dropping the backs 3-4 psi ,say 26psi. Always check when fully cold.Certainly seems to improve rear grip.
> IMO.


Thanks roland i have another tech question for you, ill PM you first.


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## chainy (Feb 6, 2003)

I have finally joined the group who have had the R32 19mm A.R.B fitted. I can only say it has to be the best possible way of transforming the handling for such a small outlay. Â£85 for bar, bushes, bolts from VAG Parts delivered to my door. Plus Â£40 (1 Hours labour) to fit. I think he said he dropped the Milltek Exhaust to fit it as well.

The mechanic did say 'not another TT with a worn ARB' untill i told him it was an upgrade and not a failure. So i guess we can add this to the list of Audi parts that prematurely fail. He said he has fitted a few due to failue in the last few months and i remember a few posts confirming this on the forum.

What with getting my Brembo GT's fitted last week, i have a permanent grin on my face


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

If they fail so often how comes we've not seen many reports on this forum? I would have thought those that come here were the harder driving/track day/drivers and as such would have more chance of having this.

Instead I've not heard of this problem.

Or is it that there's not too many "drivers" on here? 

I'm not slateing everyone, just playing, but why don't we see this on here?


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## mart (May 2, 2004)

rolandgttuning said:


> Hi Guys,
> I havent tried this on aTT (But I may!). Thicker rear ARB does increase oversteer,(you are not altering the front grip) you are inducing rear slide which feels V similar to reduced understeer. Which is fine in a backwards sort of way.There is a way of driving a TT very effectivly (Flat out cornering) that on Std ARBs holds the front in and gives an incredibly unnervous and V fast drive.;
> .Hi rolland, i am very interest in your views about understeer as before your post i thought at last someone had finally sorted this problem, but after your post iam not to sure. i have a 2003 225 coupe and am interested in what you recommend to improve the problem?
> also can you run through you flat out turning of the wheel both ways as cornering as i did not get it.
> thanks martin


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> If they fail so often how comes we've not seen many reports on this forum? I would have thought those that come here were the harder driving/track day/drivers and as such would have more chance of having this.
> 
> Instead I've not heard of this problem.
> 
> ...


I think the term failure is not used in the correct context with the arb, I dont believe they have ever failed to break.

Just that the bushings fail to induce creak...
this thread was very good in describing the problems....

http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... hp?t=29915
:?


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## EighTT (Jun 10, 2003)

Dean touched on the issue of ARBs for the 3.2, but I'd like to discuss this in a bit more detail.

First off, can someone confirm that the stock 3.2 TT is 21mm front (as opposed to 19mm for the 225) and 14mm rear? If this is the case, how would the combinations below affect handling?

Obviously, I'm looking for the ideal combination and I tend to be a touch on the conservative side so as to firm things up without inducing snap oversteer if at all possible. If I had 19mm fronts, I'd probably be inclined to go with 16mm rears, for example. So how would the V6 TT's thicker 21mm front ARB alter the equation versus the 225's 19mm ARB? TIA!

1. 21mm front and 15mm rear.
2. 21mm front and 16mm rear.
3. 21mm front and 19mm rear.


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## Jazzedout (May 8, 2002)

I am still sceptic about this, I agree with Roland and I think another point needs to be stressed. The 19mm rear ARB is designed for a car with different weight distribution than ours. The R32 has much more weight in the back than our TTs which is nose heavy, so it sounds logical to me to fit larger ARB to cope with that. :? Unless you are driving with bricks in your TT boot the whole time!


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## rolandgttuning (Jan 6, 2004)

MART Yes rather than turning in and holding the steering wheel rigid in the position of where you want to go ,just turn the wheel from side to side an equal amount left to right nice and smoothly. A bit like driving a car with lots of slop in the steering (Maybe thats the problem :lol: ) TBH I only use this ON THE ROAD in the wet. 
Turning in viciously (especially on cold rear tyres) is the most common time to get a nasty rear end stepout. I prefer to turn earlier & more gently to avoid this ,imagine a wedding cake sitting on the back seat,we dont want it to topple over,yet we cant be late for the wedding either.

JAZZEDOUT More weight in rear generates more oversteer (EG Porsche)
I think thats what your saying anyway,but just confirming

Im going to give our car a good session with the crowbar (lever) to see if, and where play occurs in all the various bushes etc soon. Ill let you know what 35000m of hard driving does to them.


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

Jazzedout said:


> Unless you are driving with bricks in your TT boot the whole time!


This and a toolbag amount to a few kilos! :lol:


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## Jazzedout (May 8, 2002)

rolandgttuning said:


> JAZZEDOUT More weight in rear generates more oversteer (EG Porsche)
> I think thats what your saying anyway,but just confirming


Yes, but it is the weight distribution that counts as well. A 911 has more weight in the back than the front. What I meant was that the Golf has a better weight distribution than the TT having more weight % in the back than the TT thus probably needing a larger ARB. The 14mm could be too soft for the Golf's weight distribution. Hope this is more clear. :?

Wak:


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## rolandgttuning (Jan 6, 2004)

The 911 has more percentage weight bias to the rear than most so is a good example of an oversteery biased car. If you add weight to the back of a TT (eg bricks in the boot or Waks monster sound system,)the bias of weight is more rearwards than it was standard. Therefore it will be more oversteery than std. Fitting a thicker rear ARB will make it even more oversteery. The answer actually is to lose weight at the front to reduce understeer,also increase track width on front (big spacers ),something I have been harping on about for ages


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

So does my thick arb, my 16 mm spacers and my counter balanced cross diagonal weighty sub-box/toolbag to balance my lardy weight distribution all add up to a great handling car ......

or am I near death everytime I take a turn............??


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## rolandgttuning (Jan 6, 2004)

Wak Actually I think weve already died and gone to heaven.
No Im sure its handling lovely,more experienced drivers like you can catch oversteer no probs.


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## mart (May 2, 2004)

thanks roland for your comments.  
so roland you say it`s better to reduce weight at the front, which seems like hard wofk, so what in your proffessional appinon would you do to reduce the understeer no a 225 coupe?????
you talk about spacers which help as well, what do these do and why?
many thanks mart


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

dahlback have a 50/50 haldex controller on the market now would love to hear if anyone has one of these... expensive though Â£850 ish :?


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## Jazzedout (May 8, 2002)

I think Forge was offering something similar as well.


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## rolandgttuning (Jan 6, 2004)

Hi Guys 
Have just come back from track day at CC today,All day long (On the dry sessions) I couldnt figure out why the car was MUCH less understeery today than the VW track day there in June. The setup was identical EXCEPT for the prototype 'limited travel' top suspension limit stops. I knew it was better as didnt require so much see sawing the wheel through the corner . I am amazed .


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

rolandgttuning said:


> Hi Guys
> Have just come back from track day at CC today,All day long (On the dry sessions) I couldnt figure out why the car was MUCH less understeery today than the VW track day there in June. The setup was identical EXCEPT for the prototype 'limited travel' top suspension limit stops. I knew it was better as didnt require so much see sawing the wheel through the corner . I am amazed .


Roland your car is a bit of a rocket ship!

I hope to have some video of it passing but it'll take a little time to review and post .

I had a fantastic day, really reallly loved driving the track in the rain I should have some excellent footage... back soon!


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## rolandgttuning (Jan 6, 2004)

Hi Wak,
Yes I watched you all through that next session (After the you & me one)
after you and awesome one got past the traffic the former didnt pull that much on you (about 1.5 secs a lap) and he had better tyres. Have a look at line B in the guide which carrys alot more speed over the rise,(6th gear)
and use the 'single seat line '(turning in before you break) at esses- 'aim for gap' and youll save 3secs instantly. PS take camp flat in 5th.
Regards Roland


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

rolandgttuning said:


> Hi Wak,
> Yes I watched you all through that next session (After the you & me one)
> after you and awesome one got past the traffic the former didnt pull that much on you (about 1.5 secs a lap) and he had better tyres. Have a look at line B in the guide which carrys alot more speed over the rise,(6th gear)
> and use the 'single seat line '(turning in before you break) at esses- 'aim for gap' and youll save 3secs instantly. PS take camp flat in 5th.
> Regards Roland


yup Awsome looked a lot faster from side but wasnt much on track

I let him past as I expected more from him but the pace was pretty even.. I only lost ground as he flew passed a broken down car and I thought you had to slow down at yellow flags! :?

I cant explain how much more enjoyable it was in the wet though...the adrenalin rush was much higher I guess as it was much riskier.. 

by the way.... to all, the 19mm anti roll bar was fantastic in the wet and dry on Castle Combe, I had passengers on every outing and car was never phased or out of step.


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

Wak said:


> rolandgttuning said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Wak,
> ...


I thought you had finished with Tracking ur car after the disc problem you had :wink:


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

I couldnt resist!


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## samb (Sep 22, 2003)

This looks like a good mod - think I'll get the Neuspeed 19mm rear ARB fitted next weekend. 
How much difference in handling between this and a much more expensive setup of front and back ARB (22,19), springs, adjustable tiebars and dampers?


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## samb (Sep 22, 2003)

Found an idiots guide to roll bars - usefull for me as I didn't know much about how exactly they work:
http://www.grmotorsports.com/swaybars.html
How close to neutral handlingis the 19mm rear ARB? Anyone had any scary moments (just considering whether the 16mm one would be better for me with its tendency still to understeer  )


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

This link 
http://www.wak-tt.com/cc20040918/cc20040918.htm
has videos of the recent CC track day with me running the 19mm arb on wet and dry conditions.

It may help but I found the control fantastic, the car was superbly balanced.

I think its an excellent mod, however bear in mindI have other mods....
Koni Coilovers and Rear Tie bars.

the combination of these may be why it works well, however the arb was the most recent mod and the difference in handling I love came from adding this piece alone.


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## boggie (May 8, 2002)

Wak said:


> This link
> http://www.wak-tt.com/cc20040918/cc20040918.htm
> has videos of the recent CC track day with me running the 19mm arb on wet and dry conditions.
> 
> ...


Hi Wak,
I have the Audi GMBH suspention. IYO do you think I would benefit from this mod - I am still undecided :? 
Cheers, Boggie


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

boggie said:


> Wak said:
> 
> 
> > This link
> ...


IMO I think every owner would benefit from it except perhaps the standard <2002 suspension as I seem to remember it being a tad soft so I'm not sure how it would handle.

I dont believe this will cause the snap oversteer that has been mentioned, try it I'm sure you'll like it.


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

also it will make the rear suspension feel tighter as there is less twist in the Arb,

if 1 rear spring hits a bump the stiffer arb transmits the twist to the other spring hence the back of the car will feel more positive as one bump gets the benefit of the arb and 2nd spring/shock dealing with the bounce and rebound together.

if you get my drift... :?


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## JayGemson (Jun 8, 2004)

I'll let you all know very shortly! I've ordered the 19mm ARB kit from vagparts but have yet to order my Koni coilovers so for a short while will be running the stiffer rear on standard <2002 suspension.



Wak said:


> IMO I think every owner would benefit from it except perhaps the standard <2002 suspension as I seem to remember it being a tad soft so I'm not sure how it would handle.
> 
> I dont believe this will cause the snap oversteer that has been mentioned, try it I'm sure you'll like it.


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## JayGemson (Jun 8, 2004)

Ok, I now have the 19mm Golf R32 rear anti-roll bar fitted. Paul at VAG parts was very helpful - knew exactly what I wanted, was able to quote me the price there and then and the parts arrived promptly.

Took approx 1 hour to fit with 2 people, myself and Dad, with the use of air tools. Decided to lower the exhaust and heatshield to give better access once the old ARB was removed, so might aswell have done it in the first place really!

No creeks or rattles (copper-slipped the new bushes) and it was probably psychological but even from the first few low-speed corners I could tell the car felt more keen to turn-in. This was confirmed on entry to the M3 motorway at Junction 4a - build up some speed and enter the right-hander and the turn in was good, then pile on more speed for the left-hander and I was very pleasently surprised - it stuck to the apex like glue with very little effort   

Impressive mod.


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## Rhod_TT (May 7, 2002)

Blast from the past this but finally fitted a 16mm rear ARB from a 4motion at the weekend.

Took me from about 12noon-4pm on-off. Managed to get the bar out without dropping the exhaust or heat shield down and suprisingly putting the new bar back in was easier. Hardest part by far was compressing the original bushes around the thicker bar and then fixing the brackets back on the car. Ended up using a longer bolt doing it up tight and then taking it out and replacing it with the short original ones as quick as possible. Definitely should have got the replacement bushes too I think. Lubed the bushes with silicon grease too so no squeaking so far.

It does make a marked improvement to the turn-in but I haven't fully experimented with it yet as the roads are a bit slippy and even my F1s 
have trouble gripping.

This is a great discovery and a real cost effective mod.

Rhod


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

Rhod, I think you will have the best upgrade for a rear only move.

Jay, how are you getting on with the 19mm rear only?

I went for the front as well after a little while and its now much more composed, the rear only was a little overpowering on the front in straight lines.

http://www.wak-tt.com/mods/arb/arb.htm


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

I've been watching this thread with interest to see how people get on on less than perfect roads. Most of the B roads where I live are covered in ridges and potholes and independant suspension is definately preferable to a live axle. By increasing the diameter of the ARB you are effectively reducing the independance of the two connected wheels and thereby reducing their ability to react to sudden changes in the road. This is fine on a good A road or a motorway where the tendance to corner with loading up the outside tyre is preferable, but of less use when the suspension is called on to follow the contours of the road.

Can anyone comment on the effect of enlarging the ARB on a bumpy road?


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

no suspension upgrade or arb upgrade is without a degree of increased sportiness over comfort and you are correct in that on a very bumpy area the car is less composed and more shaky for want of a better term.

I think the 16mm upgrade is the best all rounder for effect wanted without loss of comfort.

Anything over that needs both arbs doing and you will gain on handling but lose some comfort.

Driving on country lanes and motorways is a joy, but driving through London is hard work!


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

Thanks for that WAK. My point was not comfort, but traction. The reason for having suspension is so that all wheels are on the road at all times. Increasing the inertia in any part reduces its ability to follow the contours of the road efficiently. This reduces traction and the maximum side force available on roads with anything but a smooth surface. The level of comfort is generally a by-product of suspension tuning, rather than an objective.


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## Rhod_TT (May 7, 2002)

By stiffening the rear end you are effectively taking grip away from the back. But this for some reason means that you get a greater response from the front end. Not entirely sure why as I haven't got my vehicle dynamics book to hand (might pop and get it from the library now actually) but it is probably something to do with the transferring of loads around the car (i.e. more forward with stiffer rear ARB). It works the same with radio controlled cars (where you can experiment all you want without possible injury. Stiffer rear arb (compaired to front) gives you more turn-in.

Rhod


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## T3RBO (Dec 9, 2003)

Wak said:


> I think the 16mm upgrade is the best all rounder for effect wanted without loss of comfort.
> 
> Anything over that needs both arbs doing and you will gain on handling but lose some comfort.


I read all 8 pages of this thread and thought 'hmm 19mm sounds ideal for better handling'... then I read the above and I am once more confused??

I think my handling need improving as my old TT being a 99 was a great handler and all standard spec but my latest 225 is an 01 and feels somewhat more twitchy on corners (plus the ride seems stiffer) - No idea to reason why?

Any thoughts, best mod ie 16 or 19mm rear arb?


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## JayGemson (Jun 8, 2004)

Wak said:


> Jay, how are you getting on with the 19mm rear only?/quote]
> Good thanks, the 19mm ARB has been on for a few months now and during the times of year where the roads are at their worst. Still appreciating the bundles of extra front-end grip the ARB's given me to the extent now that I take it for granted.
> 
> Dry roads I have complete confidence - turn in is much improved and the car feels so much more lively. Wet roads I'm still a little nervy pushing it to the limits but with ESP on I've abused it on some roundabouts and found the oversteer to be easily recoverable and with practice very useful. At speed I've had no issues whatsoever, even on roads with undulating curves.
> ...


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

Thats a good point as I have Konis springs allround, it may be that the 19mm on its own doesnt work as well as it does with standard suspension.

16mm is the safe option, 19mm is excellent but consider you may need to budget another Â£200 notes to do the front if you dont like the rear on its own.


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## MtnTT (Dec 1, 2004)

I'm nearly ready to order a 19mm arb for my 225 00/01 but am still awaiting the verdict.


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## DolphinTT (Sep 27, 2004)

I'm looking to change my standard rear 14mm bar to the 16mm, and i've noticed that some of you have ordered "end bolts" for the bars.

Are these the bolts that connect to the drop links?

Do i definately need these in order to fit the new bar?


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

no not really the old ones will do. but for 80 pence you may aswell


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## Jon_667 (May 14, 2004)

I have a 2003 TT will it make any difference?? i hope so because i have just ordered one!!

Gonna fit that and getting it chipped on the 4th ;-))


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## Jon_667 (May 14, 2004)

I have a 2003 TT will it make any difference?? i hope so because i have just ordered one!!

Gonna fit that and getting it chipped on the 4th ;-))


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

they are the top two mods in my opinion, you will be amazed


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

they are the top two mods in my opinion, you will be amazed


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## Johnwx (Oct 31, 2004)

Anyone done this mod on the V6 yet, If so what size and did it work as well as the 225?


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## DolphinTT (Sep 27, 2004)

Sorry to keep this thread going on, but just received my new 16mm rear bar and bushes today and hoping to fit them this weekend. 

Can anyone tell me how the metal holders around the bushes are connected to the body of the car (yes i know by bolts! :roll: ), are they bolted to the body only on the bottom end of the holder (hooked in or hinged in some way), or is there another bolt at the top of the holder?

Are these bolts easily accessible with a small ratchet and spanners, or does it need the exhaust dropping to access them?

I looked at the pics of Waks new 19mm rear bar fitted, and can only make out a bottom bolt which looks easily accessible. I just don't want to start the job if the tools i have won't fit.

Thanks


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

why are you sorry , this thread should be sticky imo. anyway there are two bolts you can just get to with a rachet, the 16mm is harder to fit than the 19mm because you have to squash the rubbers whilst trying to start the bolts. The exhaust doesnt need droping.


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## DolphinTT (Sep 27, 2004)

Thanks BMX, looks like i'll have it on on saturday, then time to play!!


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## ir_fuel (Jan 10, 2003)

has anyone fitted this mod or sth similar to a 180HP FWD TT?
I cant get my bloody car to drift in a decent way in the wet (on a piece of tarmac, not on public road  ). I can only induce it by either gently applying the brakes when steering in, or by using the handbrake, but these 2 obviously arent what i want. Applying the brakes makes it move its tail, but not enough and it slows down the car too much, and using the handbrake is plainly cheating 
Will replacing the ARB give me the desired result? 
I ve also been trying for about 1.5h on an epoxy surface, fully wet at a test track together with an instructor to get the car to break out the rear without using the 2 tricks mentioned above. We tried a lot of things. It slid the rear big time 3 times during that 1.5h, all other attempts resulted in understear, and we still dont understand what caused it to oversteer those 3 times, cant reproduce it.

btw, ESP was OFF all the time  

... maybe i should just go for an Opel Speedster Turbo or a Lancer EVO8 if i wanna "play" more with the car instead of just driving around 

(@moderators, if this is getting too much off topic, maybe i should put this in a new thread?)


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## ir_fuel (Jan 10, 2003)

KICK :twisted:


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## DolphinTT (Sep 27, 2004)

I had the 16mm bar fitted yesterday at Awesome, what a difference 2mm makes!  
The car feels so much better bolted down than before, even just cruising on the motorway. It certainly improves the turn in on country roads too.

Thanks BMX for telling us all about this mod (and the advice on fitting it), it's definately one of the best mods for small money i reckon.


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi All,

Fitted the 19mm Rear Arb during the week, from the R32 I believe. The difference in turn in is fantastic especially on the B Roads and roundabouts are great fun! I have tested it on a couple of motorway runs and the car is very stable. I only have the standard shocks (2001 model) lowered on eibach springs. I was contemplating changing the front but it's fine as it is with my setup. Got the Arb from VAGPARTS around 82 pounds with the new bushes.

John.


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## crankTT (May 31, 2005)

Hi all,
I am planning on swapping my stock 14mm arb's (225 TT) with the 16mm ones. Do I need bushings or other hardware, and if so does anyone have part numbers? I know the bar is 1J0511409J. Thanks!


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

front 23mm 1J0411305AF

REAR 19MM 1J0511409K

if the car is new you dont need new bushes on the front

I have a set of front 23mm power flex bushed for sale Â£25 as could not wait for my back order of bushed to fit them.

you will need new 19mm new rear bushes though
part 4B0511327


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## bmx (May 25, 2003)

mrdemon said:


> front 23mm 1J0411305AF
> 
> REAR 19MM 1J0511409K
> 
> ...


not if hes fitting the 16mm bar


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## Rhod_TT (May 7, 2002)

I fitted my 16mm bar on the rear using the original bushes (and so far so good) but it'll make your life easier if you get new ones that go with the thicker bar (from the V6 4Motion). Fitting a slightly too small bush around the thicker bar and then doing it up was a pain in the arse.


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## mos (Apr 21, 2005)

i am about to buy a 19mm rear roll bar
am i right in thinking the 19mm rear bar is better than the 16mm bar without compromising the ride quality too much and will i be ok running this bar on its own without touching the front arb
if not
if i need to change the front what is the best option

thanks


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## Rhod_TT (May 7, 2002)

Not sure myself as I've only changed from 14mm to 16mm. I think a few went straight to 19mm at the rear and found that it was a bit too twitchy (Wak??) so then had to change to the front R32 bar too.

I opted for 16mm as it seemed to me that it would provide enough of an improvement without making it too unpredictable.


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

yes fit the front aswell if fitting the 19mm rear,

I think its much better having both as turn in is much sharper now
and body roll is much less,

if you fit the rear 16mm only you will still get the body roll on turn in.


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