# Getting bored of this now!



## Private Prozac

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6696497.stm

What makes them so fucking special to get a private audience with the Pope? :?

And now they're doing a Europe 'Roadshow'. Talk about a fucking pantomime. Will Cheggars be on stage or Bruno Brookes? How about Mr Blobby flinging some custard pies around to 'raise awareness'!

When will they bow out of the public eye, let the authorities work on the investigation in peace and get used to the fact that she's gone, and sadly, probably for good?

There was a programme on last week where a womans son was taken 11 years ago. Hasn't been found and is probably living oblivious to the fact that he's not with his real parents. The same could happen here although the kidnappers are probably close to throwing her out of a speeding car cos they're as pissed off hearing about it 24/7/365 as we all are! :?


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## was

FFS :evil:

media fekking circus yet again :evil:


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## W7 PMC

Kinda siding this way now :?

Too many oddities that remain unanswered & i'm more than a tad suspicious.

To add to this story line, Phillip Green (Billionaire) has lent the family his Private Jet to ship them around the globe :?


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## Leg

Im led to believe that the Pope will be making an appeal on behalf of the family...


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## carly

Leg said:


> Im led to believe that the Pope will be making an appeal on behalf of the family...


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## TTonyTT

Leg said:


> Im led to believe that the Pope will be making an appeal on behalf of the family...


Now, that is newsworthy.

I thought they were normally on the look-out for little *boys *... :?


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## W7 PMC

Try as i might, i can't detach from the fact that they left their 3 very young children alone in a strange apartment in a strange country while they went for some dinner :evil: .

I don't care they were only gone for 15mins (that's what they say), you just DON'T do that even at home let alone in a strange country.

Also, what are the chances of a kidnapper just happening to sneak in whilst the parents have popped out for tea??


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## Guest

W7 PMC said:


> Try as i might, i can't detach from the fact that they left their 3 very young children alone in a strange apartment in a strange country while they went for some dinner :evil: .
> 
> I don't care they were only gone for 15mins (that's what they say), you just DON'T do that even at home let alone in a strange country.
> 
> Also, what are the chances of a kidnapper just happening to sneak in whilst the parents have popped out for tea??


Exactly.

Stolen to order, been thinking this for a while.


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## digimeisTTer

Much as i agree with most of the above sentiments

There is still a very frightened little girl out there 

Personally i think the media explosion may have contributed to her possible demise rather than return :?


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## Ashtray_Girl

yeah i agree with this it's difficult, now the kidnapper is hardly going to go out with her now for fear of being spotted with her, whereas if there were less media he might be lulled into a false sense of security... on the other hand you can't blame them for trying to do all they can at this stage :?


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## Private Prozac

The parents look too calm IMHO! :?


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## W7 PMC

digimeisTTer said:


> Much as i agree with most of the above sentiments
> 
> There is still a very frightened little girl out there
> 
> Personally i think the media explosion may have contributed to her possible demise rather than return :?


But how certain are we that's the true picture?? Some weird folk around nowadays.

Let's just say she was stolen to order & by order of the parents?? The little girl gets found/rescued in the next few weeks & the person finding Madi gets the Â£2.7 Million reward that then gets split between the family?? the parents get all this media attention, flown around in a private jet & of course sell their story once she's found for a cool few Million more.

I TBH hope to god for Madi's sake that this is the case & that she's not in grave danger & this is just the suspicious in me thinking this, but the whole thing smacks of holes & very large yet unanswered questions.


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## Guest

Hence my comment about stolen to order.
Like you said, some strange fuckers around nowadays, and the publishing rights alone will be worth an early retirement.
If not by the parents, some one somewhere has made some money.

The biggest hole is it was all too convenient.

It must be a nightmare having kids nowadays.


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## A3DFU

W7 PMC said:


> Try as i might, i can't detach from the fact that they left their 3 very young children alone in a strange apartment in a strange country while they went for some dinner :evil: .
> 
> I don't care they were only gone for 15mins (that's what they say), you just DON'T do that even at home let alone in a strange country.


I couldn't agree more!!!

It's irrsponsible to leave children of that age on their own. Unfortunately the little girl is paying the price :?


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## digimeisTTer

W7 PMC said:


> Let's just say she was stolen to order & by order of the parents??


That is the sickest and saddest thing i've ever heard [smiley=end.gif]

The parents are successful people in their own right, how anyone could even conceive such a notion with their own child is beyond me :?: :?:


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## Toshiba

They should be charged with neglect of the child.


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## Rob_vienna

im glad im not the only one who thinks its all a bit suspicious.


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## wicked

digimeisTTer said:


> Much as i agree with most of the above sentiments
> 
> There is still a very frightened little girl out there
> 
> Personally i think the media explosion may have contributed to her possible demise rather than return :?


yep ditto that


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## A3DFU

W7 PMC said:


> Let's just say she was stolen to order & by order of the parents?? The little girl gets found/rescued in the next few weeks & the person finding Madi gets the Â£2.7 Million reward that then gets split between the family?? the parents get all this media attention, flown around in a private jet & of course sell their story once she's found for a cool few Million more.


Surely the Portugese police would realize what's going on if that were the case? Unless .....


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## Guest

digimeisTTer said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's just say she was stolen to order & by order of the parents??
> 
> 
> 
> That is the sickest and saddest thing i've ever heard [smiley=end.gif]
> 
> The parents are successful people in their own right, how anyone could even conceive such a notion with their own child is beyond me :?: :?:
Click to expand...

Sorry Digi, but it is what it is.
" Stolen to order " is quite a common act outside the u.k.
Happens a lot in the middle east, africa and south america.

Not always for ransom, some go to white slave traders or sold on to child sex rings.

It's far from a perfect world, and i truly hope i'm wrong.


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## phodge

A3DFU said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try as i might, i can't detach from the fact that they left their 3 very young children alone in a strange apartment in a strange country while they went for some dinner :evil: .
> 
> I don't care they were only gone for 15mins (that's what they say), you just DON'T do that even at home let alone in a strange country.
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't agree more!!!
> 
> It's irrsponsible to leave children of that age on their own. Unfortunately the little girl is paying the price :?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't leave my CAR anywhere if I felt I had to go and check on it every 15 mins, so how can people do this with their kids???

:?


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## R70 TTC

phodge said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try as i might, i can't detach from the fact that they left their 3 very young children alone in a strange apartment in a strange country while they went for some dinner :evil: .
> 
> I don't care they were only gone for 15mins (that's what they say), you just DON'T do that even at home let alone in a strange country.
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't agree more!!!
> 
> It's irrsponsible to leave children of that age on their own. Unfortunately the little girl is paying the price :?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wouldn't leave my CAR anywhere if I felt I had to go and check on it every 15 mins, so how can people do this with their kids???
> 
> :?
Click to expand...

I agree. It is really hard to get past the fact that they left those 3 children *ALL UNDER 3*! on their own in a hotel room. What if there had been a fire or if one of them had woken up looking for comfort. How cruel.

In this country this is illegal and have they done before in the UK?

They should know better as they are not unintelligent people who have enough money to use one of the baby sitting services available but I would imagine this is not the first time they have done it in this "safe" resort.

And we all know when we pop in somewhere for "5" minutes and return to find a traffic warden giving us a ticket that the "5" minutes has actually been much longer. Did they have a stopwatch or alarm at the table to warn them to go and check every 30 minutes? And who decided that 30 minutes was an acceptable period of time to leave them alone? How long were they actually left alone?

I do feel sorry for them only because they will never be able to forgive themselves if this poor girl never returns and the other 2 children may have lost their Sister.

All for the sake of a quite meal!

I have a 3 year old and 6 year old both daughters and I am aware that getting out for a quiet meal is something that happens so rarely I have forgotten what the insides restaurants look like. No matter how desperate I was for some quality time with my wife I would never leave my children alone anywhere in the world no matter how "safe" and I am pretty sure I am in the majority as far as parenting

Apparently hundreds of members of the public have said they would have done the same in the same circumstances! Well their children should be removed from them if they support illegal and irresponsible parenting :evil:


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## R70 TTC

Oh and I am delighted that the parents have an audience with the Pope I'm not sure what he will do this time maybe juggling or flame throwing because you can be sure he won't be bring Madeline back. Mind you if he's good at magic he could pull her from a hat.


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## StuarTT

According to the Sky News website:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/madeleine

This story is more important than politics and world news.


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## R70 TTC

That is shocking to have so much coverage, typical Sky hyping things up (mind you there all as bad as each other). And as you say there is obviously nothing else going on in the world today!

I guess we can look forward to a new photo or video clip on a daily basis now to bump the story back up to the top. They should not allow bumping as in the For Sale section!


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## mike_bailey

We were enjoying a pizza in a restaurant in Bury St Edmunds a couple of years ago. An intelligent lady on the next table struck up a conversation with us and our little girl who was 18 months old at the time. She seemed great fun and our little girl loved her but after an hour of interesting play and conversation she suddenly grabbed my little girl and bolted to the exit. I ran like hell and just managed to grab my little girl's hand before she got out of the door (luckily a table and chairs was temporarily blocking it while a waitress was rearranging tables which slowed her down). She turned out to be an ex-GP whose little girl had died a few years earlier and had gone off the rails and sectioned - it was complex but the police couldn't do a lot.

This experience taught me there's fucking nutcases all around us - even when I go to the playground with her I stay within a few feet all the time. Perhaps some good will come from Madie's case in that many similar minded parents have got a wake up call that they're responsible for their kid's safety 24 x 7 no matter what.

However, my heart bleeds for anybody that loses a child - there's no question in my mind that Madie's parents are doing whatever they can to get their little girl back and the media is a vital tool to span the globe. I would do exactly the same as them in the same circumstances as I'm certain the majority of people with kids would. I think people that don't have children find it very difficult to understand this.


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## TTwiggy

I'm not a parent, so it's hard to comment, but I am sometimes amazed at how blasÃ© some parents are with their kid's safety.

When I was at Uni, I worked in a large retail establishment selling furniture and house wares. The furniture section was upstairs, and some parents were unwilling to drag the kids/prams etc up there. So... they'd leave them by the tills downstairs, and expect the staff (who were working) to 'keep an eye on them'. This always struck me as madness - after all, would they leave, say, a 10K Rolex watch on the counter? And if not, does that mean that their child is worth less than that?!?


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## R70 TTC

mike_bailey said:


> We were enjoying a pizza in a restaurant in Bury St Edmunds a couple of years ago. An intelligent lady on the next table struck up a conversation with us and our little girl who was 18 months old at the time. She seemed great fun and our little girl loved her but after an hour of interesting play and conversation she suddenly grabbed my little girl and bolted to the exit. I ran like hell and just managed to grab my little girl's hand before she got out of the door (luckily a table and chairs was temporarily blocking it while a waitress was rearranging tables which slowed her down). She turned out to be an ex-GP whose little girl had died a few years earlier and had gone off the rails and sectioned - it was complex but the police couldn't do a lot.
> 
> This experience taught me there's fucking nutcases all around us - even when I go to the playground with her I stay within a few feet all the time. Perhaps some good will come from Madie's case in that many similar minded parents have got a wake up call that they're responsible for their kid's safety 24 x 7 no matter what.
> 
> However, my heart bleeds for anybody that loses a child - there's no question in my mind that Madie's parents are doing whatever they can to get their little girl back and the media is a vital tool to span the globe. I would do exactly the same as them in the same circumstances as I'm certain the majority of people with kids would. I think people that don't have children find it very difficult to understand this.


Blimey that's a horrible story!



> Perhaps some good will come from Madie's case in that many similar minded parents have got a wake up call that they're responsible for their kid's safety 24 x 7 no matter what.


 Lets hope so!

In terms of the media yes I probably would do the same but the bizarre thing about this is that there is no information all we get is pictures or video. Where the bloody hell is she? Has there been a randsom? What was the motive? And who the hell are these two guys they have been questioning?



> However, my heart bleeds for anybody that loses a child.


 Again agreed


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## Multiprocess

I can't even begin to imagine if either or both of my boys were killed or taken.

I am fed up with this story mainly due to the lack of new information regarding the case, it does all seem a bit strange.

I am sure that the parents, unless they are deranged and it is a big setup to get the money, are going through hell and my thoughts go to them.

If I were them, I would be doing exactly the same by getting the media involved for worldwide coverage.


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## shelley

We were looking at Mark Warner holidays last year and thought about going to the same resort. Decided against it as this particular one does not offer a baby listening service in favour of another Mark Warner location that does.

Baby listening differs to baby sitting in that it involves the nannies who work on site being located on each floor or row of villas and patrolling the outside of each room every 15 minutes then informing the parents (in the hotel bar/ restaurant) if they hear a child crying - baby sitters actually stay in the room all the time.

Lots of hotels in the UK offer a similar baby listening service.

I think in their minds they must have seen what they were doing (checking every 15 mins) as no different to the baby listening service.


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## Private Prozac

Hardly worth the fucking effort in the end was it? :?

I expect, when they heard they were having 'an audience with the Pope', that they thought it was going to be a 1 on 1 for an hour. But nope, it meant 'You get to sit _in_ the audience and watch the bloke for an hour'! :lol:

Then they get 1 minute to kiss his hand, show him a pic and then his holyness is off down the pub.

And now they're off on a jolly to Mexico, Amsterdam & Germany. Fuck me, I hope they're taking all this time from their holiday entitlement at work.

I'm still waiting for the roadshow to come to the UK. Party on dudes!


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## TTonyTT

TT2BMW said:


> And now they're off on a jolly to Mexico, Amsterdam & Germany.


Is someone looking after the other kids while they're away ???

:twisted:


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## Leg

TT2BMW said:


> 'an audience with the Pope'


I went to see this being filmed, fucking brilliant, much better than Dame Edna and waaaay better than 'An Audience with The Spice Girls'.

Popey started with a few jokes, the nuns and habits joke was a real rib tickler. Then he pulled Lionel Blair out of the audience along with Keith Chegwin and did a tap routine, he could have just been jigging up and down though, impossible to bloody tell with those robes!

After a short break he sang a solo version of 'The Only Way Is Up' with some fantastic images of dead people rising to heaven and then moved swiftly into a wonderful cover version of the Rolling Stones 'Sympathy for the Devil'.

After a few more jokes and a brief chat with Dale Winton about the merits, or lack of them, of banging blokes up the arse he invited Kylie Minogue and the Sugababes to join him in a rendition of 'Shake that ass' from the renault adverts deftly removing his robes mid song to reveal a silk G string with the words 'Reward for information about Maddy' written across his crotch.

It was impressive, Ill give them that.


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## Guest

TTonyTT said:


> TT2BMW said:
> 
> 
> 
> And now they're off on a jolly to Mexico, Amsterdam & Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> Is someone looking after the other kids while they're away ???
> 
> :twisted:
Click to expand...


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## TTonyTT

Leg said:


> TT2BMW said:
> 
> 
> 
> 'an audience with the Pope'
> 
> 
> 
> I went to see this being filmed, fucking brilliant, much better than Dame Edna and waaaay better than 'An Audience with The Spice Girls'.
> 
> Popey started with a few jokes, the nuns and habits joke was a real rib tickler. Then he pulled Lionel Blair out of the audience along with Keith Chegwin and did a tap routine, he could have just been jigging up and down though, impossible to bloody tell with those robes!
> 
> After a short break he sang a solo version of 'The Only Way Is Up' with some fantastic images of dead people rising to heaven and then moved swiftly into a wonderful cover version of the Rolling Stones 'Sympathy for the Devil'.
> 
> After a few more jokes and a brief chat with Dale Winton about the merits, or lack of them, of banging blokes up the arse he invited Kylie Minogue and the Sugababes to join him in a rendition of 'Shake that ass' from the renault adverts deftly removing his robes mid song to reveal a silk G string with the words 'Reward for information about Maddy' written across his crotch.
> 
> It was impressive, Ill give them that.
Click to expand...

1. What are you on?
2. Where did you get it?
3. Is there any left?
4. If not, can I have some of yours?

:lol:


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## mw22

There was a classic quote from the mum yesterday as she went to board her private jet
"I've never left the twins before!"

Well, actually - there was that one time!

Was also reported that she'd decided to leave the twins at home as it was too much to take them to Italy.
So - Portugal on a commercial jets ok... Italy on a private jets a no-no, well that makes perfect sense :?

Mike


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## Private Prozac

mw22 said:


> There was a classic quote from the mum yesterday as she went to board her private jet
> "I've never left the twins before!"
> 
> Well, actually - there was that one time!


 :lol:

Good one Mike.

It reported that they're going back to Portugal, after each trip, to see the twins .........and make sure they're still there in bed probably!! :?


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## s3_lurker

I am SOOO pleased it is not just me who thinks there is something very odd about this whole circus:

The parents:

1. Never look red-eyed
2. Never break down into a sob
3. Seem as composed as politicians on a photo-opportunity
4. Produce off-the-cuff quotable one-liners on cue
5. Never seem particularly bothered to be always on call for the press

I can't believe that they are complicit in their kids' disappearance. But this is all adding up to one strange story.

I can't envisage the kid ever being found. There is now just too much heat on the abductors (if there was an abductor).


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## Leg

TTonyTT said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TT2BMW said:
> 
> 
> 
> 'an audience with the Pope'
> 
> 
> 
> I went to see this being filmed, fucking brilliant, much better than Dame Edna and waaaay better than 'An Audience with The Spice Girls'.
> 
> Popey started with a few jokes, the nuns and habits joke was a real rib tickler. Then he pulled Lionel Blair out of the audience along with Keith Chegwin and did a tap routine, he could have just been jigging up and down though, impossible to bloody tell with those robes!
> 
> After a short break he sang a solo version of 'The Only Way Is Up' with some fantastic images of dead people rising to heaven and then moved swiftly into a wonderful cover version of the Rolling Stones 'Sympathy for the Devil'.
> 
> After a few more jokes and a brief chat with Dale Winton about the merits, or lack of them, of banging blokes up the arse he invited Kylie Minogue and the Sugababes to join him in a rendition of 'Shake that ass' from the renault adverts deftly removing his robes mid song to reveal a silk G string with the words 'Reward for information about Maddy' written across his crotch.
> 
> It was impressive, Ill give them that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1. What are you on?
> 2. Where did you get it?
> 3. Is there any left?
> 4. If not, can I have some of yours?
> 
> :lol:
Click to expand...

1. No idea, I think someone is spiking my drinks
2. See 1
3. I hope so if I ever have to visit the real world Ill end up topping myself, nope I have a better idea, topping someone else
4. Always welcome, just squint at the screen slightly, realise its all bollocks and then its much more entertaining to read. Its all about perspective.

Now, we have a temp receptionist in and she is quite tidy so im off to err, umm, err, get a new biro, yeah thats it, get a new biro, good cover story.


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## TTonyTT

Leg said:


> Now, we have a temp receptionist in and she is quite tidy so im off to err, umm, err, get a new biro, yeah thats it, get a new biro, good cover story.


You should have listened to the last one ... it's more lead for your pencil that you need, not another biro :roll:


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## Leg

TTonyTT said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, we have a temp receptionist in and she is quite tidy so im off to err, umm, err, get a new biro, yeah thats it, get a new biro, good cover story.
> 
> 
> 
> You should have listened to the last one ... it's more lead for your pencil that you need, not another biro :roll:
Click to expand...

Turns out Im more of a fountain pen, must be age. Ink bloody everywhere.


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## TTonyTT

Leg said:


> TTonyTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, we have a temp receptionist in and she is quite tidy so im off to err, umm, err, get a new biro, yeah thats it, get a new biro, good cover story.
> 
> 
> 
> You should have listened to the last one ... it's more lead for your pencil that you need, not another biro :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Turns out Im more of a fountain pen, must be age. Ink bloody everywhere.
Click to expand...

So she smiled at you :wink:


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## Lisa.

http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... d&start=10

Have any views changed since this thread?


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## Johnnywb

TTonyTT said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TTonyTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, we have a temp receptionist in and she is quite tidy so im off to err, umm, err, get a new biro, yeah thats it, get a new biro, good cover story.
> 
> 
> 
> You should have listened to the last one ... it's more lead for your pencil that you need, not another biro :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Turns out Im more of a fountain pen, must be age. Ink bloody everywhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So she smiled at you :wink:
Click to expand...

Thanks for brightening up my otherwise dull afternoon...


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## Leg

Johnnywb said:


> TTonyTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TTonyTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, we have a temp receptionist in and she is quite tidy so im off to err, umm, err, get a new biro, yeah thats it, get a new biro, good cover story.
> 
> 
> 
> You should have listened to the last one ... it's more lead for your pencil that you need, not another biro :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Turns out Im more of a fountain pen, must be age. Ink bloody everywhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So she smiled at you :wink:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for brightening up my otherwise dull afternoon...
Click to expand...

The 'audience with the pope' post might amuse you further. I think its hilarious, but I always laugh at my own jokes. There you go im laughing now.


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## Johnnywb

Yep that made me laugh as well!


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## jdn

TT2BMW said:


> Hardly worth the fucking effort in the end was it? :?
> 
> I expect, when they heard they were having 'an audience with the Pope', that they thought it was going to be a 1 on 1 for an hour. But nope, it meant 'You get to sit _in_ the audience and watch the bloke for an hour'! :lol:
> 
> Then they get 1 minute to kiss his hand, show him a pic and then his holyness is off down the pub.
> 
> And now they're off on a jolly to Mexico, Amsterdam & Germany. Fuck me, I hope they're taking all this time from their holiday entitlement at work.
> 
> I'm still waiting for the roadshow to come to the UK. Party on dudes!


Glad you find it all so hilarious.

Do you have children?

Even a pet?

Imagine you screwed up (which they did) and someone stole your child. Would you not do anything and everything to get them back?

Laughing at their efforts which are in the face of unimaginable pain and remorse is pretty damn sick if you ask me.

:twisted:


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## Leg

jdn said:


> TT2BMW said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hardly worth the fucking effort in the end was it? :?
> 
> I expect, when they heard they were having 'an audience with the Pope', that they thought it was going to be a 1 on 1 for an hour. But nope, it meant 'You get to sit _in_ the audience and watch the bloke for an hour'! :lol:
> 
> Then they get 1 minute to kiss his hand, show him a pic and then his holyness is off down the pub.
> 
> And now they're off on a jolly to Mexico, Amsterdam & Germany. Fuck me, I hope they're taking all this time from their holiday entitlement at work.
> 
> I'm still waiting for the roadshow to come to the UK. Party on dudes!
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you find it all so hilarious.
> 
> Do you have children?
> 
> Even a pet?
> 
> Imagine you screwed up (which they did) and someone stole your child. Would you not do anything and everything to get them back?
> 
> Laughing at their efforts which are in the face of unimaginable pain and remorse is pretty damn sick if you ask me.
> 
> :twisted:
Click to expand...

Yup, 2 sons, 6 and 9 and Ive never, ever, ever left them on their own at home or in a hotel or anywhere else to go out for a meal and some beers.

Little girl - victim and I feel for the kid
Parents - fucking idiots
Other children - should be taken away from them immediately or at least they should be watched by social services
All this media bollocks - its media bollocks

EDIT - oh and a dog, never been on his own other than when in kennels for more than around 4-5 hours max and even then he is in his own armchair in a locked and alarmed house.

Its called responsible parenting, they didnt do it, I have no sympathy for them, plenty for their children.


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## A3DFU

Leg said:


> Its called responsible parenting, they didnt do it, I have no sympathy for them, plenty for their children.


I agree fully!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[two grown up sons who were NEVER left on their own until the age of 14/15 plus two -now deceased- cats who were always cared for in my house]


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## Leg

A3DFU said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its called responsible parenting, they didnt do it, I have no sympathy for them, plenty for their children.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree fully!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> [two grown up sons who were NEVER left on their own until the age of 14/15 plus two -now deceased- cats who were always cared for in my house]
Click to expand...

Agreed, and I have no sympathy for the Pope either. You wear outfits like that, people are bound to take the piss. Its his own fault.


----------



## A3DFU

Leg said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its called responsible parenting, they didnt do it, I have no sympathy for them, plenty for their children.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree fully!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> [two grown up sons who were NEVER left on their own until the age of 14/15 plus two -now deceased- cats who were always cared for in my house]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed, and I have no sympathy for the Pope either. You wear outfits like that, people are bound to take the piss. Its his own fault.
Click to expand...

Well ,,,, yes ,,,, I suppose he's pretty old and not really with it any more since a long time.....

But I have to admit that I don't believe in the institution of the church at all. To me they are all money grabing buggars.
I do, however, believe in something out there. May this be called destiny, spirit, fate, the greater good or what ever ..........


----------



## TTonyTT

A3DFU said:


> me they are all money grabing buggars.
> I do, however, believe in something out there. May this be called destiny, spirit, fate, the greater good or what ever ..........


It's not when they grab the money that annoys me. Buggers is an appropriate description for them though.

And why do they all talk with the same bloody voice? Is "the preaching accent" something that the learn in church school?

As for destiny et al ... just read Richard Bach. 8)


----------



## Guest

I'm not being heartless but are they still getting family allowance while the child is missing?


----------



## digimeisTTer

A3DFU said:


> But I have to admit that I don't believe in the institution of the church at all. To me they are all money grabing *buggars*.


typo perhaps :lol:


----------



## A3DFU

TTonyTT said:


> just read Richard Bach. 8)


I made a note ,,,,,
even though I hold it with: -

Tony Buzan
Richard Bandler
JohnGrinder
Michael Hall, PhD
Peter Young
Hale Dwoskin
Alan Carr
Donna Eden
Robert Prising
etc, etc


----------



## A3DFU

digimeisTTer said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I have to admit that I don't believe in the institution of the church at all. To me they are all money grabing *buggars*.
> 
> 
> 
> *typo* perhaps :lol:
Click to expand...

 :wink: 
And I thought you meant Typhoo :lol:


----------



## TTonyTT

A3DFU said:


> TTonyTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> just read Richard Bach. 8)
> 
> 
> 
> I made a note ,,,,,
> even though I hold it with: -
> 
> Tony Buzan
> Richard Bandler
> JohnGrinder
> Michael Hall, PhD
> Peter Young
> Hale Dwoskin
> Alan Carr
> Donna Eden
> Robert Prising
> etc, etc
Click to expand...

I've not read any of those :?

Give me a clue ... (I just cba to look at amazon right now!)


----------



## TTonyTT

DUO3 NAN said:


> I'm not being heartless but are they still getting family allowance while the child is missing?


If that's not "heartless", how would you describe your enquiry??


----------



## A3DFU

TTonyTT said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TTonyTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> just read Richard Bach. 8)
> 
> 
> 
> I made a note ,,,,,
> even though I hold it with: -
> 
> Tony Buzan
> Richard Bandler
> JohnGrinder
> Michael Hall, PhD
> Peter Young
> Hale Dwoskin
> Alan Carr
> Donna Eden
> Robert Prising
> etc, etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've not read any of those :?
> 
> Give me a clue ... (I just cba to look at amazon right now!)
Click to expand...

Arrr ,,, 
Richard Bandler&John Grinder are the fathers of NLP (Paul, I change your life in 10 seconds, Mc Kenna learnt all he knows from them)
Tony Buzan - father of mind map, lots of research/work on how the brain works
Alan Carr - change work
Donna Eden- millions of books on how to ... the list is endless
Hale Dwoskin-teaches theideas of Leicester Levins: the Sedona Method

All fantastic readings


----------



## TTonyTT

A3DFU said:


> Arrr ,,,
> Richard Bandler&John Grinder are the fathers of NLP (Paul, I change your life in 10 seconds, Mc Kenna learnt all he knows from them)
> Tony Buzan - father of mind map, lots of research/work on how the brain works
> Alan Carr - change work
> Donna Eden- millions of books on how to ... the list is endless
> Hale Dwoskin-teaches theideas of Leicester Levins: the Sedona Method
> 
> All fantastic readings


Thank you for the tips - I'll take a look at some of them, though generally I steer clear of "how to", "you can if you want to", "take control of your life yourself" type books ... aren't they all for people with no willpower / self-determination?


----------



## Private Prozac

jdn said:


> Glad you find it all so hilarious.
> 
> Do you have children?
> 
> Even a pet?
> 
> Imagine you screwed up (which they did) and someone stole your child. Would you not do anything and everything to get them back?
> 
> Laughing at their efforts which are in the face of unimaginable pain and remorse is pretty damn sick if you ask me.
> 
> :twisted:


You twat.

I have 2 children. 1 is 10 and 1 is 15 months and I also wouldn't dream of leaving them alone in a room whether it was my intention to check on them or not.

As said, how did they manage their 30 minute checks? Imagine you're stuffing you face with food, your watch beeps to tell you it's been 30 minutes and they sit there thinking, "Do I let my food get cold or check on the kids? Nah, they'll be fine. I'll go when I've polished off my dinner".

"which are in the face of unimaginable pain and remorse" ~ To be honest, I haven't seen either of these expressions on their faces for the past 4 weeks! :?

At no time have they stood there and admitted they fucked up big time.

Did you see Question Time last night? A black member of the audience made a very valid point - 'Would the Pope have given an audience or would the media have continued to show such an interest if it was a black, single mum from a council estate in London who'd left her kids alone and one had gone missing?'. No, of course they fucking wouldn't. They'd be on her back slating the shit out of her for leaving her kids in the first place.

The sad thing is that this poor girl has been failed by her selfish parents. It's a media hyped guilt trip now and nothing else.


----------



## TTonyTT

TT2BMW said:


> Did you see Question Time last night? A black member of the audience made a very valid point - 'Would the Pope have given an audience or would the media have continued to show such an interest if it was a black, single mum from a council estate in London who'd left her kids alone and one had gone missing?'. No, of course they fucking wouldn't. They'd be on her back slating the shit out of her for leaving her kids in the first place.


Exactly.

The media reaction stinks. The whole situation feels like a sick reality TV show ("little sister" rather than "big brother" anyone?) where we're supposed to believe that everyone and everything is real, but it's just a manipulated show for the gullible masses.

The tipping point for me was the "audience with the Pope" bit. Why?? What is the point/purpose of that? ?


----------



## A3DFU

TTonyTT said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arrr ,,,
> Richard Bandler&John Grinder are the fathers of NLP (Paul, I change your life in 10 seconds, Mc Kenna learnt all he knows from them)
> Tony Buzan - father of mind map, lots of research/work on how the brain works
> Alan Carr - change work
> Donna Eden- millions of books on how to ... the list is endless
> Hale Dwoskin-teaches theideas of Leicester Levins: the Sedona Method
> 
> All fantastic readings
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for the tips - I'll take a look at some of them, though generally I steer clear of "how to", "you can if you want to", "take control of your life yourself" type books ... aren't they all for people with no willpower / self-determination?
Click to expand...

It's all NLP and Hypnotherapy stuff I've mentioned: necessary reads for what I do 

A good book is _Frogs into Prices _by Bandler and Grinder


----------



## TTonyTT

A3DFU said:


> A good book is _Frogs into Prices _by Bandler and Grinder


Â£55.99 at Amazon


----------



## A3DFU

TTonyTT said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> A good book is _Frogs into Prices _by Bandler and Grinder
> 
> 
> 
> Â£55.99 at Amazon
Click to expand...

Yes, I know. And it is only 193 pages!
Try amazon market place _used and new_


----------



## GoingTTooFast

TT2BMW said:


> The sad thing is that this poor girl has been failed by her selfish parents. It's a media hyped guilt trip now and nothing else.


Spot on. Nobody is even mentioning what this girl could be going through, assuming she's still alive. She could have been sold into a child paedophile ring or prostitution in some God forsaken country. They're just being made to feel sorry for her parents, who, while I really do pity what they're going through, should not be allowed to look after children again. I wouldn't leave two 2 year olds and a 3 year old and pop to a neighbours for 5 minutes, yet alone for an evening while I went out for dinner.

If they were from an inner city housing estate they wouldn't have received half of the support that they have, but because they're white middle class doctors they get a private jet and an audience with the pope.


----------



## Private Prozac

GoingTTooFast said:


> If they were from an inner city housing estate they wouldn't have received half of the support that they have, but because they're white middle class doctors they get a private jet and an audience with the pope.


My point exactly mate. Well done.


----------



## Leg

GoingTTooFast said:


> some God forsaken country


Wales? Hmm, its worth a look I guess.


----------



## Guest

Leg said:


> GoingTTooFast said:
> 
> 
> 
> some God forsaken country
> 
> 
> 
> Wales? Hmm, its worth a look I guess.
Click to expand...

I looked, and i stayed. More Gods country than god forsaken.


----------



## garyc

A3DFU said:


> TTonyTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> A good book is _Frogs into Prices _by Bandler and Grinder
> 
> 
> 
> Â£55.99 at Amazon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, I know. And it is only 193 pages!
> Try amazon market place _used and new_
Click to expand...

NLP head on. <<anchor>> "It's Verrrrry Good Value at that price. you should buy it"

On topic.

Something is not right and just does not add up about the loss of this little girl. And her parents actions/mannerisms before and since. It's odd and not altogether wholsesome. I know we only see what the media portray.

Maybe it's the Andy Warhol thing. 15 mins etc. :?


----------



## A3DFU

garyc said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TTonyTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> A good book is _Frogs into Prices _by Bandler and Grinder
> 
> 
> 
> Â£55.99 at Amazon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, I know. And it is only 193 pages!
> Try amazon market place _used and new_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> NLP head on. <<anchor>> "It's Verrrrry Good Value at that price. you should buy it"
> 
> On topic.
> 
> Something is not right and just does not add up about the loss of this little girl. And her parents actions/mannerisms before and since. It's odd and not altogether wholsesome. I know we only see what the media portray.
> 
> Maybe it's the Andy Warhol thing. 15 mins etc. :?
Click to expand...

What ever it may be, the little girl is the loser 

As for the anchor, which it is not, I don't use the words should, ought etc. It can put peoples backs up.
But I have been selling pink stipy wall paper with green dots and minty flavour using NLP techniques 8)


----------



## jdn

TT2BMW said:


> jdn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you find it all so hilarious.
> 
> Do you have children?
> 
> Even a pet?
> 
> Imagine you screwed up (which they did) and someone stole your child. Would you not do anything and everything to get them back?
> 
> Laughing at their efforts which are in the face of unimaginable pain and remorse is pretty damn sick if you ask me.
> 
> :twisted:
> 
> 
> 
> You twat.
> 
> I have 2 children. 1 is 10 and 1 is 15 months and I also wouldn't dream of leaving them alone in a room whether it was my intention to check on them or not.
> 
> As said, how did they manage their 30 minute checks? Imagine you're stuffing you face with food, your watch beeps to tell you it's been 30 minutes and they sit there thinking, "Do I let my food get cold or check on the kids? Nah, they'll be fine. I'll go when I've polished off my dinner".
> 
> "which are in the face of unimaginable pain and remorse" ~ To be honest, I haven't seen either of these expressions on their faces for the past 4 weeks! :?
> 
> At no time have they stood there and admitted they fucked up big time.
> 
> Did you see Question Time last night? A black member of the audience made a very valid point - 'Would the Pope have given an audience or would the media have continued to show such an interest if it was a black, single mum from a council estate in London who'd left her kids alone and one had gone missing?'. No, of course they fucking wouldn't. They'd be on her back slating the shit out of her for leaving her kids in the first place.
> 
> The sad thing is that this poor girl has been failed by her selfish parents. It's a media hyped guilt trip now and nothing else.
Click to expand...

They screwed up - as I said.

You didn't answer my question - if you were in the same boat what would you do..

I did not see Question Time but agree it is a fair point.

I still think you are the twat for laughing at them though...


----------



## W7 PMC

Lisa. said:


> http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/viewtopic.php?t=88172&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=child&start=10
> 
> Have any views changed since this thread?


Lisa, you going for the biggest Sig record?? Think you've got about 150KB floating around at the bottom of your posts. Thank gor for Broadband (totally off-topic).

Hope that last piccie was taken a while ago?? Tim's got a tab in his jowels.


----------



## foojeek

100% guilt trip on the part of the parents.

Anyone fancy taking odds on when the book will be published and who will get the film rights??


----------



## Wallsendmag

Leg said:


> GoingTTooFast said:
> 
> 
> 
> some God forsaken country
> 
> 
> 
> Wales? Hmm, its worth a look I guess.
Click to expand...

Wales isn't a counrty is it?


----------



## Leg

wallsendmag said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GoingTTooFast said:
> 
> 
> 
> some God forsaken country
> 
> 
> 
> Wales? Hmm, its worth a look I guess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wales isn't a counrty is it?
Click to expand...

More an 'area'.


----------



## Wallsendmag

Leg said:


> wallsendmag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GoingTTooFast said:
> 
> 
> 
> some God forsaken country
> 
> 
> 
> Wales? Hmm, its worth a look I guess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wales isn't a counrty is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More an 'area'.
Click to expand...

Principality I thought,can't even afford its own banknotes


----------



## Leg

wallsendmag said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wallsendmag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GoingTTooFast said:
> 
> 
> 
> some God forsaken country
> 
> 
> 
> Wales? Hmm, its worth a look I guess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wales isn't a counrty is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More an 'area'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Principality I thought,can't even afford its own banknotes
Click to expand...

Not true, they do have a currency......










Exchange rate is currently 4 sheeps feet to the Â£


----------



## TTonyTT

Leg said:


> Exchange rate is currently 4 sheeps feet to the Â£


Apparently, in Wales, if you have 4 sheeps feet, you're known as a "quidderboyo".

If you have 40 sheeps feet, you're known as "a rich bastardboyo".

If you have 400 sheeps feet, you're known as "an unlucky rich bastardboyo".

In Wales, the lucky man has the whole sheep. Lucky, but knackkered.


----------



## GoingTTooFast

On the NLP front can I also throw Persuasion Engineering by Richard Bandler & John la Valle into the ring?

Fantastic book.


----------



## Godzilla

Leg
Not true said:


> http://www.tripsource.com/stories/Dave/Greece/DaveGreecePics/Feet550.jpg[/img]
> 
> Exchange rate is currently 4 sheeps feet to the Â£


Arn't these pigs feet?

I thought that in Wales, if you have 4 sheeps feet, you're known as a sex object


----------



## Leg

Godzilla said:


> Leg
> Not true said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.tripsource.com/stories/Dave/Greece/DaveGreecePics/Feet550.jpg[/img]
> 
> Exchange rate is currently 4 sheeps feet to the Â£
> 
> 
> 
> Arn't these pigs feet?
> 
> I thought that in Wales, if you have 4 sheeps feet, you're known as a sex object
Click to expand...

No idea, im putting my trust in google image search. Could be any animal for all I know about em.


----------



## A3DFU

GoingTTooFast said:


> On the NLP front can I also throw Persuasion Engineering by Richard Bandler & John la Valle into the ring?
> 
> Fantastic book.


Agreed [smiley=thumbsup.gif] 
Did you ever watch a film about/with Richard Bandler where he helps a chap to be more confident around women? Fantastic!!


----------



## TTonyTT

A3DFU said:


> Did you ever watch a film about/with Richard Bandler where he helps a chap to be more confident around women? Fantastic!!


It was based on a true story apparently ... :wink: 8)


----------



## A3DFU

TTonyTT said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you ever watch a film about/with Richard Bandler where he helps a chap to be more confident around women? Fantastic!!
> 
> 
> 
> It was based on a true story apparently ... :wink: 8)
Click to expand...

And Bandler did an excellent job too  ,,,,,
,,,,, much to the disgust of all of the fellow ladies on the NLP Master degree I did :lol: :lol: :lol:

However, you do as the client asks :roll:


----------



## TTonyTT

A3DFU said:


> However, you do as the man asks :roll:


That's the sort of attitude I like ...


----------



## A3DFU

TTonyTT said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, you do as the man asks :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> That's the sort of attitude I like ...
Click to expand...

Is that really what I said? I wonder .............. :roll:


----------



## TTonyTT

A3DFU said:


> TTonyTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, you do as the man asks :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> That's the sort of attitude I like ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that really what I said? I wonder .............. :roll:
Click to expand...

It's what you meant to say ... you know it ... I know it ... now everyone can know it

:wink:


----------



## A3DFU

TTonyTT said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TTonyTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, you do as the man asks :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> That's the sort of attitude I like ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that really what I said? I wonder .............. :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's what you meant to say ... you know it ... I know it ... now everyone can know it
> 
> :wink:
Click to expand...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,

this is serious food for thought.
However, I need to tell you that mind reading is not a valid NLP technique


----------



## TTonyTT

A3DFU said:


> However, I need to tell you that mind reading is not a valid NLP technique


NLP ?

NLP ??

NLP ???

Who's talking about NLP technique ????


----------



## jdn

Back on topic...

I agree fully with this piece from the Sunday Times today.



Sunday Times said:


> From The Sunday TimesJune 3, 2007
> 
> *Lay off the McCanns
> 
> India Knight *
> 
> I wrote about Madeleine McCann just after sheâ€™d been abducted, and was quite startled by my postbag. Roughly half the letters sympathised impotently with Gerry and Kate McCann; the other half were entirely, and brutally, condemnatory.
> 
> Who leaves three toddlers unattended for half an hour at a time, they asked? The McCanns were â€œasking for itâ€, they were â€œselfishâ€, they were â€œcriminally carelessâ€. I hardly think so: leaving small children alone is never wise, but most of us avoid doing it because weâ€™re frightened of choking, not of marauding child-snatchers; if we believed that paedophiles lurk around every corner, weâ€™d all go insane and never leave the house.
> 
> I was really taken aback by these letters, chiefly because when an unspeakably awful thing happens, compassion seems a saner and more appropriate response than being smugly judgmental.
> 
> Anyway: here we are again, a month on. Madeleine is still missing, her picture still appears in most newspapers every day, and I donâ€™t know quite where the compassion percentage stands at today. There is clearly a growing rumble of unease out there at the McCannsâ€™ omnipresence in the papers and on television. No aspect of their grief is deemed too private to share with the media. Weâ€™ve watched them in church, weâ€™ve watched them walking about, weâ€™ve seen their other two children, weâ€™ve seen poor beribboned Kate McCann clutching pathetically at Madeleineâ€™s favourite toy.
> 
> They were in Rome last week, where they briefly met the Pope; soon theyâ€™ll be off to a slew of other countries, cameras in tow, to broaden out their campaign. And it is a campaign, involving appeals or offers of support from David Beckham, Cristiano Ronaldo, even Gordon Brown. Whoever is orchestrating it deserves an award.
> 
> Enough, detractors say. A hundred children go missing in Britain every year: what about them? Do we know even one of their names? The answer, shamefully, is no. But two wrongs donâ€™t make a right: would it be preferable for Madeleine to become an anonymous statistic too? Would ignoring the McCanns and their desperate appeal somehow honour the other 100 nameless missing children? Itâ€™s hard to see how.
> 
> The argument then moves on to the cynicism and sentimentality of the media, which apparently feeds the publicâ€™s fundamentally unwholesome and voyeuristic hunger for images of a lost child and her distraught parents. Well, er, yeah: full marks, Sherlock. Nothing new there: one of the bestselling books in the country at the moment is called Please, Daddy, No. It is one of many in the same genre, and it is an unfortunate fact that the publicâ€™s appetite for horrific â€œtrueâ€ stories involving children being abused seems, disturbingly, almost infinite.
> 
> The question is, does it matter that some peopleâ€™s avid following of the McCannsâ€™ story undoubtedly involves prurience and a strange sort of hunger for the gory detail? Not really, no. The point, surely, is that somebody somewhere knows or suspects what happened to Madeleine, and that her parents are desperate to attract that personâ€™s attention by any means necessary. If, on the way, they make some of us feel uncomfortable, or voyeuristic, or even, whisper it, compassion-fatigued, thatâ€™s entirely our problem. God knows theirs is greater.
> 
> Speaking of God: what really brought the nay-sayers out of the woodwork was the McCannsâ€™ attendance at mass in St Peterâ€™s Square last week. They are devout Catholics; they met the Pope for a few minutes afterwards; he appeared to bless a photograph of Madeleine. Unacceptable, according to some woman on Newsnight for whom this was the final straw: the McCann story had now become about â€œreligion and faithâ€.
> 
> What an extraordinary statement. Here are two parents, stuck in hell, not even afforded the dubious comfort of grieving. Love the Pope, hate the Pope, meeting him helped them and brought them comfort. Do we really need to sit in judgment?
> 
> The boring leftie middle-class response to the McCannsâ€™ story - clumsily seeking to intellectualise an event to which most people respond only viscerally - has echoes of the death of Diana, Princess of Wales. Reams were written at the time about how Britain had gone mad, how this syrupy sentimentality was entirely puzzling, how the writer felt like an alien in his or her own country, how he or she really didnâ€™t care that much, how plenty of women died every day, how the fuss and the grief were entirely disproportionate and weâ€™d all be terribly embarrassed in the cold light of day.
> 
> You sensed that the writers of those articles felt brave, like they were boldly sticking their heads above the parapet, speaking up for a significant minority. Which Iâ€™m sure they were - though perhaps not as heroically as theyâ€™d envisaged â€" just like the commentators expressing their discomfort at the magnitude of the McCann campaign.
> 
> But whatâ€™s the point, exactly? It is an act of off-the-scale egoism to base your view of a situation such as this one only on whether it makes you feel â€œcomfortableâ€ or not. What has anyoneâ€™s â€œcomfortâ€ got to do with anything? The facts are simple: a child was snatched; her parents are in despair; the Portuguese police seem worse than inept. Someone knows what happened to Madeleine. What are the parents to do? (Three days or so after Madeleine disappeared, and the media circus was already in full flow, an enterprising reporter drove over the border to Spain with a photograph of her. He was met with only blank looks: despite nonstop coverage of the story here, no one he spoke to had any idea who she was.)
> 
> The McCann familyâ€™s story is like any other in this respect: you can think what you like. You can be interested, you can be bored. You can leave News 24 on in the background, or you can watch Big Brother instead. You can hope for the best, or fear the worst. You can say a prayer, or rant about the Pope. Itâ€™s up to you, because you can always turn the page and move on to something you consider more interesting or more cheerful, something that makes you feel more â€œcomfortableâ€.
> 
> That luxury does not exist for the McCanns. They canâ€™t turn the page. They can only generate more headlines, because they believe that the end of headlines is the end of hope. Who among us would look them in the eye and condemn them for it?


Particularly this quote:

*chiefly because when an unspeakably awful thing happens, compassion seems a saner and more appropriate response than being smugly judgmental. *


----------



## Guest

I'm not condemming them, and to be honest, i dont think anyone on this thread is.
Its definitely a case of " that could so easily be me".
However, as previously stated, lots of things dont add up.
And if their calls for help didnt come over so Max Cliffordy they may have more support from the general public.
Its the same loony lefties that say you can't lock up paedophiles, its an infringement of their civil rights.. And its these same people that want their children to run the streets like vagrants, "because i want my child to grow up free and because i'm a babyboomer hippy with a flower in my hair and i believe in live and let live".
Unfortunately the world isnt like that, its more terrible than most of us wish to believe and refuse to talk about in polite circles.
You cant have it both ways.
Be it a bleeding heart Guardian reader to a pseudo intelligent Times reader to someone who just looks at the pictures Sun reader the press has its own agendas when it comes to subjects like this, and that's to sell copy.
So, be it broadsheet or tabloid were all guilty to some degree of buying into this tragedy for the wrongs reasons.
And you posting someone else view from the Times is just an example of how you've fallen into the media trap.
You really wanna help?
Fuck off and help the family find that poor child thats gone missing,.
:evil:


----------



## A3DFU

jdn said:


> Back on topic...
> 
> I agree fully with this piece from the Sunday Times today.
> 
> 
> 
> Sunday Times said:
> 
> 
> 
> From The Sunday TimesJune 3, 2007
> 
> *Lay off the McCanns
> 
> India Knight *
> 
> I wrote about Madeleine McCann just after sheâ€™d been abducted, and was quite startled by my postbag. Roughly half the letters sympathised impotently with Gerry and Kate McCann; the other half were entirely, and brutally, condemnatory.
> 
> Who leaves three toddlers unattended for half an hour at a time, they asked? The McCanns were â€œasking for itâ€, they were â€œselfishâ€, they were â€œcriminally carelessâ€. I hardly think so: leaving small children alone is never wise, but most of us avoid doing it because weâ€™re frightened of choking, not of marauding child-snatchers; if we believed that paedophiles lurk around every corner, weâ€™d all go insane and never leave the house.
> 
> I was really taken aback by these letters, chiefly because when an unspeakably awful thing happens, compassion seems a saner and more appropriate response than being smugly judgmental.
> 
> Anyway: here we are again, a month on. Madeleine is still missing, her picture still appears in most newspapers every day, and I donâ€™t know quite where the compassion percentage stands at today. There is clearly a growing rumble of unease out there at the McCannsâ€™ omnipresence in the papers and on television. No aspect of their grief is deemed too private to share with the media. Weâ€™ve watched them in church, weâ€™ve watched them walking about, weâ€™ve seen their other two children, weâ€™ve seen poor beribboned Kate McCann clutching pathetically at Madeleineâ€™s favourite toy.
> 
> They were in Rome last week, where they briefly met the Pope; soon theyâ€™ll be off to a slew of other countries, cameras in tow, to broaden out their campaign. And it is a campaign, involving appeals or offers of support from David Beckham, Cristiano Ronaldo, even Gordon Brown. Whoever is orchestrating it deserves an award.
> 
> Enough, detractors say. A hundred children go missing in Britain every year: what about them? Do we know even one of their names? The answer, shamefully, is no. But two wrongs donâ€™t make a right: would it be preferable for Madeleine to become an anonymous statistic too? Would ignoring the McCanns and their desperate appeal somehow honour the other 100 nameless missing children? Itâ€™s hard to see how.
> 
> The argument then moves on to the cynicism and sentimentality of the media, which apparently feeds the publicâ€™s fundamentally unwholesome and voyeuristic hunger for images of a lost child and her distraught parents. Well, er, yeah: full marks, Sherlock. Nothing new there: one of the bestselling books in the country at the moment is called Please, Daddy, No. It is one of many in the same genre, and it is an unfortunate fact that the publicâ€™s appetite for horrific â€œtrueâ€ stories involving children being abused seems, disturbingly, almost infinite.
> 
> The question is, does it matter that some peopleâ€™s avid following of the McCannsâ€™ story undoubtedly involves prurience and a strange sort of hunger for the gory detail? Not really, no. The point, surely, is that somebody somewhere knows or suspects what happened to Madeleine, and that her parents are desperate to attract that personâ€™s attention by any means necessary. If, on the way, they make some of us feel uncomfortable, or voyeuristic, or even, whisper it, compassion-fatigued, thatâ€™s entirely our problem. God knows theirs is greater.
> 
> Speaking of God: what really brought the nay-sayers out of the woodwork was the McCannsâ€™ attendance at mass in St Peterâ€™s Square last week. They are devout Catholics; they met the Pope for a few minutes afterwards; he appeared to bless a photograph of Madeleine. Unacceptable, according to some woman on Newsnight for whom this was the final straw: the McCann story had now become about â€œreligion and faithâ€.
> 
> What an extraordinary statement. Here are two parents, stuck in hell, not even afforded the dubious comfort of grieving. Love the Pope, hate the Pope, meeting him helped them and brought them comfort. Do we really need to sit in judgment?
> 
> The boring leftie middle-class response to the McCannsâ€™ story - clumsily seeking to intellectualise an event to which most people respond only viscerally - has echoes of the death of Diana, Princess of Wales. Reams were written at the time about how Britain had gone mad, how this syrupy sentimentality was entirely puzzling, how the writer felt like an alien in his or her own country, how he or she really didnâ€™t care that much, how plenty of women died every day, how the fuss and the grief were entirely disproportionate and weâ€™d all be terribly embarrassed in the cold light of day.
> 
> You sensed that the writers of those articles felt brave, like they were boldly sticking their heads above the parapet, speaking up for a significant minority. Which Iâ€™m sure they were - though perhaps not as heroically as theyâ€™d envisaged â€" just like the commentators expressing their discomfort at the magnitude of the McCann campaign.
> 
> But whatâ€™s the point, exactly? It is an act of off-the-scale egoism to base your view of a situation such as this one only on whether it makes you feel â€œcomfortableâ€ or not. What has anyoneâ€™s â€œcomfortâ€ got to do with anything? The facts are simple: a child was snatched; her parents are in despair; the Portuguese police seem worse than inept. Someone knows what happened to Madeleine. What are the parents to do? (Three days or so after Madeleine disappeared, and the media circus was already in full flow, an enterprising reporter drove over the border to Spain with a photograph of her. He was met with only blank looks: despite nonstop coverage of the story here, no one he spoke to had any idea who she was.)
> 
> The McCann familyâ€™s story is like any other in this respect: you can think what you like. You can be interested, you can be bored. You can leave News 24 on in the background, or you can watch Big Brother instead. You can hope for the best, or fear the worst. You can say a prayer, or rant about the Pope. Itâ€™s up to you, because you can always turn the page and move on to something you consider more interesting or more cheerful, something that makes you feel more â€œcomfortableâ€.
> 
> That luxury does not exist for the McCanns. They canâ€™t turn the page. They can only generate more headlines, because they believe that the end of headlines is the end of hope. Who among us would look them in the eye and condemn them for it?
> 
> 
> 
> Particularly this quote:
> 
> *chiefly because when an unspeakably awful thing happens, compassion seems a saner and more appropriate response than being smugly judgmental. *
Click to expand...

This is a long article and, quite honestly, I got bored with it towards the end.

All I can say (as I did before) responsible parents don't leave young children on their own!!!!!
It's no good crying over spilt milk. What happened, happened. Madleine pays the price.

I have brought up two sons and I made many sacrifices along the way (and I made them gladly!!!). And I can say, hand on heart, that they were never unattended until the age of 14/15.

Sorry, but what ever the media says, the McCanns acted very irresponsibly


----------



## Private Prozac

Agreed Dani.

That article, what I could be arsed to read, is a load of old bollocks written by somebody who hasn't got a frigging clue about current public opinion.

And this "No aspect of their grief is deemed too private to share with the media. Weâ€™ve watched them in church, weâ€™ve watched them walking about, weâ€™ve seen their other two children, weâ€™ve seen poor beribboned Kate McCann clutching pathetically at Madeleineâ€™s favourite toy." is a complete load of crap.

Who is it that is courting the publicity?
If they didn't want it then surely they'd retreat to their hotel and not parade for all the media to see every day!
They want us to see every move they make. They want to be on the TV 24/7. They want as much coverage as possible.
So, it's their choice that nothing is private and not ours. I'd prefer it if it were more private and done more quietly but doubt that's their view!! :?


----------



## TTonyTT

TT2BMW said:


> They want to be on the TV 24/7. They want as much coverage as possible.


Why?

Does anyone really believe that the saturation coverage that they've had will really increase the chances of the child being found? Surely everyone, everywhere is now fully aware of this situation.

I've received 5 spam emails ("send this to everyone in your address book) from at least 3 different original sources. Does anyone really believe that an email arriving in the abductors inbox (or their neighbours or whatever) is going to be the factor that persuades them to contact the police? Really??

OK, so whilst the media are still covering the story, the parents can feel that "they are doing something" to help. Sorry, but you already did the damage, don't use the media to make yourselves feel - even just a little bit - better.

And whilst the media are busy covering this story, how many other children have gone missing without a single line in any newspaper anywhere?

It's now got to the stage where the media coverage is selfish and greedy, is self-defeating, and is doing harm to other equally deserving causes.


----------



## Leg

Dont worry guys, I'm told that something called 'Big Brother' has started another series and I seem to recall the papers get a little obsessed with it. Pretty sure little Madelaine will be last weeks news as soon as some bint:

1. Gets her tits out
2. Says anything remotely racist

Mind you, they could really twist the knife and have the contestants wearing 'Find Maddy' T shirts.


----------



## garyc

A3DFU said:


> GoingTTooFast said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the NLP front can I also throw Persuasion Engineering by Richard Bandler & John la Valle into the ring?
> 
> Fantastic book.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
> Did you ever watch a film about/with Richard Bandler where he helps a chap to be more confident around women? Fantastic!!
Click to expand...

'Magnolia' portrays Tom Cruise as a darker NLP type.

My brother in law in an NLP Practicioner and a member of British Psychlogical Society (he works in global HR management dev fora big IT networking co) and had done courses with Bandler. He's a bit wierd by all accounts. Bandler that is, not my BIL, who is a bit of a tosser.

I am sceptical about true weight and worth of NLP. Although when I go to the to the pub with BIL, I always seem to end end up buying all of the drinks and lending him Â£50? :wink:


----------



## A3DFU

garyc said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GoingTTooFast said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the NLP front can I also throw Persuasion Engineering by Richard Bandler & John la Valle into the ring?
> 
> Fantastic book.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
> Did you ever watch a film about/with Richard Bandler where he helps a chap to be more confident around women? Fantastic!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 'Magnolia' portrays Tom Cruise as a darker NLP type.
> 
> My brother in law in an NLP Practicioner and a member of British Psychlogical Society (he works in global HR management dev fora big IT networking co) and had done courses with Bandler. He's a bit wierd by all accounts. Bandler that is, not my BIL, who is a bit of a tosser.
> 
> I am sceptical about true weight and worth of NLP. Although when I go to the to the pub with BIL, I always seem to end end up buying all of the drinks and lending him Â£50? :wink:
Click to expand...

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

It looks like your brother-in-law is using his NLP knowledge well :wink:

Yes, I met Bandler and I am an NLP Master Prac, clinical Hypnotherapist and loads more.
To me NLP is merely a comunicative tool that can be used in every day life as well an in therapies (and even Personal Training, which still makes up 70% of my work.
But I also see the big problem with NLP: loads of companies' sale staff miss use it to improve sales for their company, which to me is unethical.

BTW, another good film is _What the Bleep do we kow?! _


----------



## garyc

Of course Bandler is not without his associated scandals and skeletons:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corine_Christensen

    

I jest about BIL and NLP. He is really quite bright (although he can struggle to communicate with his wife :roll: ). I think it's a useful tool (along with many others) and has it's place in personal development and I do like the clever use of linguistics.

Think it is quitea money spinner too. which is why larger orgs seem to be developing their own in house skills, rather than paying for expensiev consultanst all the time.


----------



## A3DFU

garyc said:


> Think it is quitea money spinner too. which is why larger orgs seem to be developing their own in house skills, rather than paying for expensiev consultanst all the time.


Agreed.
Or they send a few delegates to get the qualification, which then seem to leave their company and work for themselves :roll:

btw, I don't like Mr. Bandler, but he is an interesting character :wink:


----------



## Private Prozac

WTF are you two going about about?, (apart from it being OT!!).


----------



## Leg

TT2BMW said:


> WTF are you two going about about?, (apart from it being OT!!).


Funny how the thread has now caught up with its title eh :wink:


----------



## A3DFU

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think Gary and I were just discussing the news paper article :wink:


----------



## shelley

Slightly OT but interesting

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main ... do0604.xml


----------



## BorderFox

from findmadeline.com it leads with the tag line:

'Madeleine's Fund : Leaving No Stone Unturned '

Now accepting paypal apparently they have 'earned' to date:

Â£713,927.81.

f**k me, that amount of money has me seriously considering leaving any future kid home alone in an unlocked house.

Now how exactly is all this money helping to find Maddie? if they could detail their expenses as to what this is being spent on i wouldn't be so supicious, at the moment it looks like it is being used to fly the McCanns around 1st class and stay in 5 star hotels.


----------



## A3DFU

BorderFox said:


> Now how exactly is all this money helping to find Maddie? if they could detail their expenses as to what this is being spent on i wouldn't be so supicious, at the moment it looks like it is being used to fly the McCanns around 1st class and stay in 5 star hotels.


 [smiley=devil.gif] [smiley=end.gif]


----------



## Mark Davies

I've not read every post in this thread, but there are some reasonable opinions being expressed and some very insensitive comments being made too.

This is my take on the whole business, from the perspective of a police officer who has investigated child abductions.

Firstly - yes, they made a stupid and irresponsible mistake. They did something that I don't doubt they would never have considered doing at home. But that's the nature of going on holiday - you relax just that little too much and become complacent. That's how time-share salesmen make a living! What's done is done - and it will haunt them for the rest of their lives. But for being practicing Catholics I wouldn't have been the least bit surprised to hear of the mother committing suicide.

Now, as for the media circus, I can do no more than congratulate them. Thankfully, precious few children are ever abducted, but I can assure you there are far more than you ever hear about. I've worked on two abductions, one resulting in a dreadful murder, that never got any publicity. The press need a hook to get them interested. Holly and Jessica would have died unnoticed but for that one photograph taken of them in their Man United shirts hours before they went. The McCann's are intelligent people and I think they understand this. From the very first morning they had got their family in the UK into the media to complain about the police response over there. I expect the police were doing all they could, but this at least got the story aired - that and a bit of luck that it was a quiet news day otherwise. Since then, they have worked hard to keep it in the public eye.

Yes, it is becoming tedious, but having made their dreadful mistake they are at least doing everything possible - and who amongst us would not do the same?

All that said, I am certain it is all a waste of time. She was dead within a week. She was probably not taken to order to be raised by someone else - she was just a little too old and so would remember too much. And even on the off-chance she was taken for this purpose that odd eye of hers would make her very identifiable. I'll agree with one poster that all this publicity has made it very dangerous for anyone to keep her - and so ironically is likely to have precipitated her death.

More likely is that she was taken by a paedophile ring, and they rarely keep a victim alive for more than 4 days. Either way, the poor girl is long gone. Very sad.

But if it was your child would you give up? Of course not. If you are tired of the coverage just switch channels - that's what I'm doing. They are hurting enough - no need to rub salt in the wounds.


----------



## Molehall

I agree with Mark Davies. A little compassion never goes amiss rather than slagging the poor parents for an error that will haunt them for the rest of their days.

In any event the abductor was probably watching the child for any mistake by the parents. Even holier-than-thou parents don't have their children in their range of vision 24/7. For a start most people sleep in different bedrooms to their children.

Although not a Catholic myself, I hope that the McCann's faith will help them in their hour of need.


----------



## Leg

Molehall said:


> For a start most people sleep in different bedrooms to their children.


In a locked, alarmed house. What's your point?


----------



## Molehall

Not every one has an alarm in their house.

Not every one has window locks on their windows.

Some people, especially in the summer, leave their windows open. Sometimes children themselves open windows at night, especially if they don't have window locks.

My point is that a determined abductor will hunt out a situation where one set of parents have taken slightly less precautions than another set of parents.

My other point is that compassion towards those who've suffered is, in my humble opinion, not a bad thing.


----------



## A3DFU

Mark Davies said:


> More likely is that she was taken by a paedophile ring, and they rarely keep a victim alive for more than 4 days. Either way, the poor girl is long gone. Very sad.


Mark, 
I bow to your experience. But from previous media coverage I was under the impression that a lot of the girls are being kept for a long time? Or is this only true for older girls?


----------



## Leg

Molehall said:


> Not every one has an alarm in their house.
> 
> Not every one has window locks on their windows.
> 
> Some people, especially in the summer, leave their windows open. Sometimes children themselves open windows at night, especially if they don't have window locks.
> 
> My point is that a determined abductor will hunt out a situation where one set of parents have taken slightly less precautions than another set of parents.
> 
> My other point is that compassion towards those who've suffered is, in my humble opinion, not a bad thing.


Buy some, fit some, shut them. Simple. Oh, and fitted smoke alarms too. What are they saying? Cant afford or cant be bothered to do the best possible to protect their family and property? Too busy? Too tired? Better things to spend a few quid on?

And I would like to know which small (we are talking 4 here remember but applies to older too) children can open bedroom windows themselves because if they can the parents need a wake up call.

Latter point, i couldnt agree more and the little girl has my compassion, their other children have my concern. As for the parents, leaving a 4 year old and 2 babies alone and going out for a meal (not nearby, just look at the photos) is as bad as conciously hurting them in my book and if they were a single mum from a rough estate, Social Services would have taken the other kids by now and they would be being charged for neglect.

Jeez, I remember being on holiday with ours and me and Mrs Leg having to carry them back from an evening out cos they were both asleep. It was hot, I was sweating like buggery cos they were 4 and 6 and hardly light but you know what, we had a great night out, they were safe and there was a shower in our hotel room.


----------



## Molehall

Leg said:


> Molehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not every one has an alarm in their house.
> 
> Not every one has window locks on their windows.
> 
> Some people, especially in the summer, leave their windows open. Sometimes children themselves open windows at night, especially if they don't have window locks.
> 
> My point is that a determined abductor will hunt out a situation where one set of parents have taken slightly less precautions than another set of parents.
> 
> My other point is that compassion towards those who've suffered is, in my humble opinion, not a bad thing.
> 
> 
> 
> Buy some, fit some, shut them. Simple. Oh, and fitted smoke alarms too. What are they saying? Cant afford or cant be bothered to do the best possible to protect their family and property? Too busy? Too tired? Better things to spend a few quid on?
> 
> And I would like to know which small (we are talking 4 here remember but applies to older too) children can open bedroom windows themselves because if they can the parents need a wake up call.
> 
> Latter point, i couldnt agree more and the little girl has my compassion, their other children have my concern. As for the parents, leaving a 4 year old and 2 babies alone and going out for a meal (not nearby, just look at the photos) is as bad as conciously hurting them in my book and if they were a single mum from a rough estate, Social Services would have taken the other kids by now and they would be being charged for neglect.
> 
> Jeez, I remember being on holiday with ours and me and Mrs Leg having to carry them back from an evening out cos they were both asleep. It was hot, I was sweating like buggery cos they were 4 and 6 and hardly light but you know what, we had a great night out, they were safe and there was a shower in our hotel room.
Click to expand...

It maybe desirable that every house has a burglar alarm and window locks, but it's a fact that many don't. I applaud your sentiments on burglar alarms, smoke alarms and window locks, but the world is populated by imperfect people. Maybe the government should legislate?

Having said that there is an argument that having locked windows exposes children (and adults) to a greater risk in the case of fire. I donâ€™t have the experience of fire casualty statistics to make accurate assessment beyond the opinion that it should be a factor in a parentâ€™s calculations. And, as the average parent has no greater access to fire casualty (locked windows) vs abduction statistics than I have, the average parent probably just does what they think is right.

Iâ€™m sure that the McCannsâ€™ consciousnesses will punish them far more severely than anyone from Social Services can. All the McCanns, parents, children and other family members, have my sympathy. I reserve my venom and vitriol for the evil paedophile(s), who abducted the child in the first place.

In my opinion there is a huge difference between making a mistake, however grievous, and carrying out a deliberately evil act.

It is also my opinion that the paedophile(s) were going to snatch a child whatever and, if it wasnâ€™t the McCannâ€™s child, it would have been another child somewhere else at some other time. I donâ€™t believe that a casual paedophile just happened to be wandering along.


----------



## Leg

Molehall said:


> It maybe desirable that every house has a burglar alarm and window locks, but it's a fact that many don't. I applaud your sentiments on burglar alarms, smoke alarms and window locks, but the world is populated by imperfect people. Maybe the government should legislate?


You used it as a mitigating reason why what they did was not unusual. That, as we all leave our children unnattended in their own bedrooms at home that what they did wasnt so bad. My point was, and is, that what they did is completely different to leaving children in a secure home and, if parents do leave small children in an unsecure home, they arent doing their duty as parents. If you want to describe that as imprefect, then so be it.



Molehall said:


> Having said that there is an argument that having locked windows exposes children (and adults) to a greater risk in the case of fire. I donâ€™t have the experience of fire casualty statistics to make accurate assessment beyond the opinion that it should be a factor in a parentâ€™s calculations. And, as the average parent has no greater access to fire casualty (locked windows) vs abduction statistics than I have, the average parent probably just does what they think is right.


Its all about planning m8. Locked windows open with keys. Locked windows are safe for children (and against burglars) if said keys are positioned such that an adult can get them inside the house near the window but not a child. We also have a rope ladder in the blanket box at the end of our bed and a hammer (for smashing windows should the need arise). A little effort, minor expense, probably never used but maybe once a life saver. Of course the smoke alarms are an essential part of the jigsaw.



Molehall said:


> Iâ€™m sure that the McCannsâ€™ consciousnesses will punish them far more severely than anyone from Social Services can. All the McCanns, parents, children and other family members, have my sympathy. I reserve my venom and vitriol for the evil paedophile(s), who abducted the child in the first place.


Im not overly concerned with their punishment. Its their other childrens safety people should be concerned with.



Molehall said:


> In my opinion there is a huge difference between making a mistake, however grievous, and carrying out a deliberately evil act.


Indeed there is but a mistake is one thing, leaving your children, aged 4 and younger, on their own while you go for a night out is hardly a 'mistake'. Its a pre judged risk taken in all conciousness. Childrens safety vs desire to go out for a meal vs convenience. Most of us take the kids with us, as detailed throughout this thread.



Molehall said:


> It is also my opinion that the paedophile(s) were going to snatch a child whatever and, if it wasnâ€™t the McCannâ€™s child, it would have been another child somewhere else at some other time. I donâ€™t believe that a casual paedophile just happened to be wandering along.


Not sure what your point is here? Its going to happen to someone so what can you do? I'll tell you what they did, they made it as easy as possible for the kidnapper to take the child. They the parents decided that they wanted to go out SO much that a reduced level of safety for their children was acceptable. A concious decision. That cant be denied. They know the world we live in, they know whats out there, they have a 4 year old and 2 babies in an apartment that they are checking every half an hour (allegedly).

They were fools, they made a selfish decision, their child has suffered for it, big time. My main problem with all this is all this sympathy for the parents crap. They should bloody well suffer as much as is humanly possible emotionally (im not talking punishment) because it pales into insiginificance to what a 4 year old girl has gone through just so Mummy and Daddy can go have dinner and a beer with their friends. Period.


----------



## Molehall

Our opinions differ on many matters ranging from the practicality of opening locked windows in a fire situation (especially in the dark), the fallibility of human beings and our desire to forgive or condemn the McCann parents for their foolish and grievous mistake.

I hope that we are united in our opinion that it was the paedophile that committed the despicable and evil crime and that there is no forgiveness for the abductor(s).

That's my lot on the subject.


----------



## Leg

Molehall said:


> I hope that we are united in our opinion that it was the paedophile that committed the despicable and evil crime and that there is no forgiveness for the abductor(s).


What is worst is that I am led to believe by more knowledgeable people on the subject that paedophiles dont believe that they are doing wrong and that it should be legal. They should be hung anyway but thats outrageous.


----------



## mike_bailey

Leg said:


> Molehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope that we are united in our opinion that it was the paedophile that committed the despicable and evil crime and that there is no forgiveness for the abductor(s).
> 
> 
> 
> What is worst is that I am led to believe by more knowledgeable people on the subject that paedophiles dont believe that they are doing wrong and that it should be legal. They should be hung anyway but thats outrageous.
Click to expand...

Many just get a caution :x

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6717997.stm


----------



## Lisa.

I think the McCann's were wrong to leave the children, there is no excuse.
I agree with Leg, if you go on holiday with your children then you are with them 24/7. If you want to go out for a meal then you take them with you. Long after I threw away the double buggy for my two, I bought another one just to take on holiday so if they were tired they could nod off in the buggy, safely by our side. They may have looked odd at 4+ & 6+ years old but who cares? We Did. The other option ( especially in the USA )is to eat in a restaurant with booth seating, that way if they get sleepy they rest their head on your lap, happy and safe, and nod off.
There was NO option of going out once they'd fallen asleep in their room, that is blatant neglect as far as I'm concerned. As I've said before, the last thing on their mind would have been kidnappers that's understandable, but what about the children? What would happen if one woke up and needed comforting or felt ill or opened the door ( though I heard this was left open anyway so they could let themselves back in) or ran the bath or fell out of bed or or or or! 101 reasons NOT to leave children alone especially in a strange place.

Would it have been acceptable in this country to do this? 
Q Would you leave your 3 toddlers asleep in your unlocked ground floor flat then nip to the cafe on the corner for 2 hours, popping back every 30 mins?

Would you ever consider nipping to the shop leaving your kids asleep, even for 20 minutes?

Or would you go and fill the car up with petrol? 15 minutes max?

If you think any of these situations are acceptable then I can understand why you have empathy with the McCanns.

The thing is some people do stupid things JUST because they were on holiday. Even me! I've ridden motorbikes in shorts and flip flops and no helmet! Something I'd never even contemplate when back home.

Nice young girls become sluts and sleep around.

Nice young men become drunken louts and brawl.

Some parents become bad parents...shame they can't admit they did wrong instead of keep saying " the room was within sight" what difference does that make? 
What difference DID that make!


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## mike_bailey

Lisa. said:


> Some parents become bad parents...shame they can't admit they did wrong instead of keep saying " the room was within sight" what difference does that make? What difference DID that make!


I think that's the big hole they've dug themselves into - if they'd fronted up at the start and humbly (and perhaps emotionally) stated "We've been so stupid and thoughtless, we know we were wrong in what we did but please, please help us try to get our little girl back" then they might have kept the focus of newsworthy debate more on their little girl rather than them.


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## A3DFU

I agree with both posts below!!!



Lisa. said:


> I think the McCann's were wrong to leave the children, there is no excuse.
> I agree with Leg, if you go on holiday with your children then you are with them 24/7. If you want to go out for a meal then you take them with you. Long after I threw away the double buggy for my two, I bought another one just to take on holiday so if they were tired they could nod off in the buggy, safely by our side. They may have looked odd at 4+ & 6+ years old but who cares? We Did. The other option ( especially in the USA )is to eat in a restaurant with booth seating, that way if they get sleepy they rest their head on your lap, happy and safe, and nod off.
> There was NO option of going out once they'd fallen asleep in their room, that is blatant neglect as far as I'm concerned. As I've said before, the last thing on their mind would have been kidnappers that's understandable, but what about the children? What would happen if one woke up and needed comforting or felt ill or opened the door ( though I heard this was left open anyway so they could let themselves back in) or ran the bath or fell out of bed or or or or! 101 reasons NOT to leave children alone especially in a strange place.
> 
> Would it have been acceptable in this country to do this?
> Q Would you leave your 3 toddlers asleep in your unlocked ground floor flat then nip to the cafe on the corner for 2 hours, popping back every 30 mins?
> 
> Would you ever consider nipping to the shop leaving your kids asleep, even for 20 minutes?
> 
> Or would you go and fill the car up with petrol? 15 minutes max?
> 
> If you think any of these situations are acceptable then I can understand why you have empathy with the McCanns.
> 
> The thing is some people do stupid things JUST because they were on holiday. Even me! I've ridden motorbikes in shorts and flip flops and no helmet! Something I'd never even contemplate when back home.
> 
> Nice young girls become sluts and sleep around.
> 
> Nice young men become drunken louts and brawl.
> 
> Some parents become bad parents...shame they can't admit they did wrong instead of keep saying " the room was within sight" what difference does that make?
> What difference DID that make!





Leg said:


> Molehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> It maybe desirable that every house has a burglar alarm and window locks, but it's a fact that many don't. I applaud your sentiments on burglar alarms, smoke alarms and window locks, but the world is populated by imperfect people. Maybe the government should legislate?
> 
> 
> 
> You used it as a mitigating reason why what they did was not unusual. That, as we all leave our children unnattended in their own bedrooms at home that what they did wasnt so bad. My point was, and is, that what they did is completely different to leaving children in a secure home and, if parents do leave small children in an unsecure home, they arent doing their duty as parents. If you want to describe that as imprefect, then so be it.
> 
> 
> 
> Molehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having said that there is an argument that having locked windows exposes children (and adults) to a greater risk in the case of fire. I donâ€™t have the experience of fire casualty statistics to make accurate assessment beyond the opinion that it should be a factor in a parentâ€™s calculations. And, as the average parent has no greater access to fire casualty (locked windows) vs abduction statistics than I have, the average parent probably just does what they think is right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its all about planning m8. Locked windows open with keys. Locked windows are safe for children (and against burglars) if said keys are positioned such that an adult can get them inside the house near the window but not a child. We also have a rope ladder in the blanket box at the end of our bed and a hammer (for smashing windows should the need arise). A little effort, minor expense, probably never used but maybe once a life saver. Of course the smoke alarms are an essential part of the jigsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> Molehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Iâ€™m sure that the McCannsâ€™ consciousnesses will punish them far more severely than anyone from Social Services can. All the McCanns, parents, children and other family members, have my sympathy. I reserve my venom and vitriol for the evil paedophile(s), who abducted the child in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Im not overly concerned with their punishment. Its their other childrens safety people should be concerned with.
> 
> 
> 
> Molehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> In my opinion there is a huge difference between making a mistake, however grievous, and carrying out a deliberately evil act.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed there is but a mistake is one thing, leaving your children, aged 4 and younger, on their own while you go for a night out is hardly a 'mistake'. Its a pre judged risk taken in all conciousness. Childrens safety vs desire to go out for a meal vs convenience. Most of us take the kids with us, as detailed throughout this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Molehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is also my opinion that the paedophile(s) were going to snatch a child whatever and, if it wasnâ€™t the McCannâ€™s child, it would have been another child somewhere else at some other time. I donâ€™t believe that a casual paedophile just happened to be wandering along.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not sure what your point is here? Its going to happen to someone so what can you do? I'll tell you what they did, they made it as easy as possible for the kidnapper to take the child. They the parents decided that they wanted to go out SO much that a reduced level of safety for their children was acceptable. A concious decision. That cant be denied. They know the world we live in, they know whats out there, they have a 4 year old and 2 babies in an apartment that they are checking every half an hour (allegedly).
> 
> They were fools, they made a selfish decision, their child has suffered for it, big time. My main problem with all this is all this sympathy for the parents crap. They should bloody well suffer as much as is humanly possible emotionally (im not talking punishment) because it pales into insiginificance to what a 4 year old girl has gone through just so Mummy and Daddy can go have dinner and a beer with their friends. Period.
Click to expand...


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## jdn

Mark Davies said:


> I've not read every post in this thread, but there are some reasonable opinions being expressed and some very insensitive comments being made too.
> 
> This is my take on the whole business, from the perspective of a police officer who has investigated child abductions.
> 
> Firstly - yes, they made a stupid and irresponsible mistake. They did something that I don't doubt they would never have considered doing at home. But that's the nature of going on holiday - you relax just that little too much and become complacent. That's how time-share salesmen make a living! What's done is done - and it will haunt them for the rest of their lives. But for being practicing Catholics I wouldn't have been the least bit surprised to hear of the mother committing suicide.
> 
> Now, as for the media circus, I can do no more than congratulate them. Thankfully, precious few children are ever abducted, but I can assure you there are far more than you ever hear about. I've worked on two abductions, one resulting in a dreadful murder, that never got any publicity. The press need a hook to get them interested. Holly and Jessica would have died unnoticed but for that one photograph taken of them in their Man United shirts hours before they went. The McCann's are intelligent people and I think they understand this. From the very first morning they had got their family in the UK into the media to complain about the police response over there. I expect the police were doing all they could, but this at least got the story aired - that and a bit of luck that it was a quiet news day otherwise. Since then, they have worked hard to keep it in the public eye.
> 
> Yes, it is becoming tedious, but having made their dreadful mistake they are at least doing everything possible - and who amongst us would not do the same?
> 
> All that said, I am certain it is all a waste of time. She was dead within a week. She was probably not taken to order to be raised by someone else - she was just a little too old and so would remember too much. And even on the off-chance she was taken for this purpose that odd eye of hers would make her very identifiable. I'll agree with one poster that all this publicity has made it very dangerous for anyone to keep her - and so ironically is likely to have precipitated her death.
> 
> More likely is that she was taken by a paedophile ring, and they rarely keep a victim alive for more than 4 days. Either way, the poor girl is long gone. Very sad.
> 
> But if it was your child would you give up? Of course not. If you are tired of the coverage just switch channels - that's what I'm doing. They are hurting enough - no need to rub salt in the wounds.


Well said. If you are 'bored' then change channels and watch Big Brother or something else.

At least have some compassion for what the price they are paying for such a error in judgement.


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## TTonyTT

jdn said:


> At least have some compassion for what the price they are paying for such a error in judgement.


And for all the time they're having to spend sitting in private jets touring the world and meeting Popes just to ensure that the local police keep looking ... :?


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## Molehall

I seem to remember that Jesus said a few things about compassion and foregiveness.


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## Leg

Molehall said:


> I seem to remember that Jesus said a few things about compassion and foregiveness.


Yeah, mind you his Mum stayed in the stable with him and didnt bugger off for some sheep soup and wine and leave him on his own eh.

Good job too cos later that night 3 dodgy geezers in beards and sheets turned up with gold, frankincense, and myrrh . I mean myrrh is a balm for Christs sake (literally), you cant give a baby a balm, it might go off!


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## TTonyTT

Leg said:


> Yeah, mind you his Mum stayed in the stable with him and didnt bugger off for some sheep soup and wine and leave him on his own eh.
> 
> Good job too cos later that night 3 dodgy geezers in beards and sheets turned up with gold, frankincense, and myrrh . I mean myrrh is a balm for Christs sake (literally), you cant give a baby a balm, it might go off!


 :lol: :lol: 
Another classic Leg post


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## mac's TT

:lol: :lol: Leg you are a wag. Feel for the parents though


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## Leg

mac's TT said:


> :lol: :lol: Leg you are a WAG.


I wish, I would shag a premiership footballer for 50% of that kind of money any day!


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## robokn

Cor your expensive, just a small amount of what they waste in the bookies


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## A3DFU

Leg said:


> Molehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I seem to remember that Jesus said a few things about compassion and foregiveness.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, mind you his Mum stayed in the stable with him and didnt bugger off for some sheep soup and wine and leave him on his own eh.
> 
> Good job too cos later that night 3 dodgy geezers in beards and sheets turned up with gold, frankincense, and myrrh . I mean myrrh is a balm for Christs sake (literally), you cant give a baby a balm, it might go off!
Click to expand...

 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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