# OIL COOLER… What is needed???



## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

*OIL COOLER&#8230; What is needed???*
Ok well now the mods have it about as far as the standard block and turbo can go.. (possibly a little bit further ) my attention is being focused on longevity of oil.. after recent discussions it's been adviced that a oil and filter change should be getting done around every 6k now.. (just to be on the safe side). So potentially hopefully looking for options to extend that to the current 9k regime&#8230; now I know a oil cooler increases oil life.. but weather I'll get a extra 3k out of it, we'll wait and see&#8230;. So as for the question.. WHAT IS NEEDED?

After having a look on WAK's website (thanks very much again) I managed to get the name of the parts he used on his kit. "Mocal" these guys are well into the racing scene and have been for many years.. unfortuntly there complete kit range does venture past Alfa for the A in the alphabet. So I've had to do abit of investigation.

*Sandwich Plate*
First thing is to find a sandwich plate, (instead of tapping the sump) a sandwich plate fits where the current oil filter fits, and allows for the oil filter to be fitted ontop of the sandwich (hense the name, sorry if this is teaching you how to suck eggs) Problem I am having is I do not know the thread sizes ect&#8230;.of the filters. (is anyone aware and sure of the sizes????) I did however find this..


> FRAM EXTRAGUARD OIL FILTER, ORANGE -- 4.92" Height, 3/4-16 Thread For audi TT 2000 - 2006


 which was located here. http://www.car-stuff.com/carparts/auditt20002006framffph2870a1.html can anyone confirm??

Assuming the info I've gathered is correct then the sandwich plate is infact this one:-








http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/product/1596/Mocal_Sandwich_Plate 
Part No. MOC-SP1

*Oil Cooler*
Well to be fair I can't find any definitive answer on what size will fit where the standard TT intercooler fitted.. again WAK did get 2 oil coolers to find which one fitted best and looking at the pics I'm guessing they were a 13row and a 16row with the 16row being the one that fitted??? (again if anyone else or wak could confirm???) Also which fittings are used 8AH or 10AH&#8230; I'd imagine the 8AH is a lower circulation speed due to the narrower hoses, but maybe there is a issue with pressure&#8230; for the purpose of this post, and until I can get it confirmed I'm going to say we need to use a 10AH to be safe.

Assuming it is the 10AH and 16 Row cooler that's needed then I need to be ordering this:-








http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/product/4990/Mocal_235_Matrix_Oil_Coolers
Part No. MOC-16210

*Fittings*
Well again this hands on the 10AH or 8AH approach. Potentially need 10AH by my thoughts but obviously I am not running a oil cooler so guidance from someone who is would be great  Due to the location this will be fitted (where intercooler 2 is on the 225) then I've come to the conclusion that potentially one straight fitting, 2 90 degree fittings and one 45 degree (main reason for the 45 is if you fitted 2 90's they would come into contact unless you branch off at different angles (which won't look good)

So what is needed is:-

























So that would be:-
1x MOC-TS-10
2 x MOC-T90-10
1 x MOC-T45-10
(although may well be worth getting 3 90's incase there isn't enough space in the bay)

*Hoses*
As for hoses, well these can be any sort, the do a stainless steel version also, but for the OEM look black is available

Therefore you would need:-








http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/product/2663/Mocal_Lightweight_Hose
Part No. MOC-AHL-10
Length. TBC

So I'm assuming that's it and we now have a TT oil cooler kit, the next question is what the demand with regards to extra oil.. I guess I need to do some calcs with the original sump.. the bore of the hoses and the capacity of the cooler to work out what amount of oil will be required during servicing.

Anyone in the know who can give a indication if this sounds about right????

Also now need to find a UK stockest, anyone know of good ones????

Cheers

tony


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## Fred (Jan 7, 2010)

Unless your doing multiple laps of a track all the time I doubt very much you need an oil cooler!!

These 1.8t engines are very good at managing oil cooling and dont actually run that hot.

Use VAG com and look at oil temps, thrash the car on a country lane as hard and long as you can and I bet the temps are well within whats acceptable.

Good oil is fine for 140 deg and I bet you dont even get over 110.

We did this in a friends heavily modified 1.8t (stock turbo, everythign else changed) and found it to be fantastic at keeping its temps down without an oil cooler.

Also the downside of an oil cooler is when your just driving normally it can keep the oil too cold!!


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## BFT - John (Sep 8, 2009)

Indeed.

Charlie @ TT Spares has one in stock I think? You still need the cooler plate though.


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Dont think charlies will fit woth a forge FMIC tho


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Will the oil cooler from the TT V6 help?
Steve


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Tony has considered this I belive from when I spoke to him.

Wak. Morgan - Can you explain is teh oil system has a thermostat? Is not do you not run the risk of running car too cold in winter?


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

stevecollier said:


> Will the oil cooler from the TT V6 help?
> Steve


yes it would... have you got one spare????  it'd just save getting a cooler thats all..


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Steve wheres the v6 plumbed into? Sump?


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

they still go on the filter housing i belive... but because the v6 has a insert rather than can filter, it's actually plumbed in as standard on a lower part of the engine...

well if too much cooling is a problem wouldn't a 8AH and 13 row intercooler be a safer option... less oil in the cooler and also pipework therefore less cooling.. :? 8 is the smalles you can go on the sandwich plate and 12 is the biggest.


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Im only playing Devils advocate Tony, hopfully wak and morgan will explain if oil has a thermostat (which im sure it doesnt) and if not how it stays at correct temp like coolant


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

:lol: it was you that remined me that i was supposed to be looking into this mod anyway... :lol: not that i'd forgotten :roll:

but like ya say i'd in boarderline safe torque... so i don't want metal fatigue from it getting hop and bending the rod... i personally think from reading wak's site that my car is ready for one... and we all know wak is very knowledgeable on these things... if he's done one it must be doing something worth wild..


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Yeah thats the logic Im using, tho would like to know how the system keeps a good temp. Morgan has it too and recomends too


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## Hark (Aug 23, 2007)

Fred said:


> Unless your doing multiple laps of a track all the time I doubt very much you need an oil cooler!!
> 
> These 1.8t engines are very good at managing oil cooling and dont actually run that hot.
> 
> ...


I would agree with this.


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

Hark said:


> I would agree with this.


 :lol: be quiet you.... you've just fallen out with modding now :lol: (as your post)

i would agree with it to a certain extent... but as said... you know how high my torque and psi is... if anything i wanna just make sure the metal never get hot enough to cause fatigue in any elements within the engine... granted if i was running sub 300 i probably wouldn't consider it... (apart from the fact i do quite like the idea, and it's a job i'd have no issues with doing myself so a little fitting hobby i can look forward to)

better safe than sorry...


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## UR_TT (Nov 8, 2008)

I´m sure everyone aware that the TT already has an oilcooler as std? 
It´s an watercooled one. 









I´m tracking my car HARD, never had any heatproblems. Most of the TD TT I see i Sweden that has opted for Aircooled Oilcooler have all in the same process removed the OEM one.


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

the 1.8t has an oil cooler as standard? Where is it?


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

Sheldon, it's as pictured... very very small... but not 100% sure these are fitted on TT's in the UK.. as there is some confusion that these are on "hot Climate" models... meaning there on cars in nice warm countrys and not england.. :lol: :lol: but can't find any definate answers till i can get on ETKA and look at the engine schematics... even so it's not that great...

after reading waks page again..http://www.wak-tt.com/mods/fmic.htm which says the mocal's have a thermostat in them... basicly they oil is only cooled at 180F (82.2C)and is not cooled before that... as the description of this one suggests... http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/products/1395/Mocal_Thermostatic_Sandwich_Plate_4cyl Therefore your right it could be fitted and never ever opened... but acording to this oil is optimum at 82 and deteriorates at higher temps.... (don't get confussed with 90 water temp) i'll have to use the 51c (i think it's that for oil temp) and see what it's running... but the issue of over cooling shouldn't come into it as the oil isn't cooled until 82.2C

hope that clears it up for ya matey... ya not going to be running a car with a oil temp of 50... it'll just kick in when it's needed.... above 82.2C or 180F



> 180 is optimum Below this temp, the oil isn't hot enough to burn off harmful contaminants. Temps above 230°F, it starts to thin out and oxidize, reducing lubrication significantly


 230F is 110C

So really to have a cooler that comes on when it's hot and shuts off when it's cold is just protecting the engine and keeping the oils life and effectiveness.... i like the idea of a safety measure at my torque.. :roll:


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Great post Tony. So you need that sandwich plate and a cooler lines and job done


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

yeah or a kit... like this http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/categories/294/Oil_Cooler_Kits_Hardware only available in the states though... VW & Audi Specialist company... some good stuff on there too... the 10AH was right to guess with... so it's a thermostat sandwich plate we need.... Oil cooler (i'd still say 16 row) and hoses.... oil and filter...

then the fun works can start in fitting... i just need to find a UK supplier of mocal... there must be some as AMD used it for waks car...


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

suppose i could always get these instead :?









http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/...nnecting_Rods_Billet_4340_1_8L_2_0L_16V_144MM








http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/products/507/BBM_Forged_82mm_Piston_Set_1_8T

although costs alot more !!!!!


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

NO PISTONS! Just Rods


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## Jurpo (Jun 24, 2009)

Oil cooler is under oil filter. If there is enough space between oil filter and boost pipe.
Bigger one can be fitted. These give faster oil warm up too.


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## Hark (Aug 23, 2007)

Just a thought...

How much will an oil cooler + parts + fabrication cost?

How much would that second oil change cost you? £50?

So over the next 18k miles your will have to do 3 oil changes instead of 2?

So you lost £50 over 18 months? 2 years?

Will the oil cooler be less than £50? :roll:

What does your oil temperature get to now Tony?


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

I did sugest earlier in post Matt that really your better off changing oil more oftern but this doesnt take into account if you give it some and oil get hot (with 340 Toquies) that you degregate oil there and then


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## Hark (Aug 23, 2007)

Bikerz said:


> I did sugest earlier in post Matt that really your better off changing oil more oftern but this doesnt take into account if you give it some and oil get hot (with 340 Toquies) that you degregate oil there and then


Hence my question about temperature mate. I want to know how hot it gets.

Mine reaches about 110c on a blast I think. Usually 80-90 in traffic.


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## UR_TT (Nov 8, 2008)

Hark said:


> Bikerz said:
> 
> 
> > I did sugest earlier in post Matt that really your better off changing oil more oftern but this doesnt take into account if you give it some and oil get hot (with 340 Toquies) that you degregate oil there and then
> ...


You got an Oiltemp installed? Any pics and maybe if I´m lucky some installation pics aswell?


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Liquid gauge will give you oil temps.
Steve


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## Jurpo (Jun 24, 2009)

stevecollier said:


> Liquid gauge will give you oil temps.
> Steve


Oil sump temp. What engine will get, is after Oem oil cooler.


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## Hark (Aug 23, 2007)

I've got a 60mm defi oil temp gauge mounted in the centre vent mate.


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## UR_TT (Nov 8, 2008)

stevecollier said:


> Liquid gauge will give you oil temps.
> Steve


Correct, but not on an APX.

Hark, Any pics??


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## Hark (Aug 23, 2007)

UR_TT said:


> Hark, Any pics??


Short vid here:


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## cannuck (Mar 17, 2009)

Tony, 
If you do make up your own kit you really should add in a thermostat for the reasons mentioned. One like this would suffice.... http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/produ ... m=Shopping
Screw on are far superior to the push on and just use standard pipe thread joints.
Incidentally, any decent hydraulic company should be able to make up any pipes you require.

This is the method I used on my TR6....fitted the sandwich plate, then mounted the cooler (16 row is ample) and thermostat where suitable and measured up the hoses required and got them made up locally. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I don't have any more technical data to add re. the TT I'm afraid...sorry  
Rich


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## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

I doubt if the size of oil cooler would be critcal but it is VITAL to fit a THERMOSTATIC sandwich plate in order that the oil does not run too cool.


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

yes a thermostat on the sandwich is a no braner, and a requirement... wouldn't dream of fitting one without...

as for what temps i'm gettin well on the daily commute, which isn't a excessive drive it seems to hold spot on 90... assumin that 51c is correct for oil temp.. obviously if it's like this on a normal tootle around then yes would lov to see it on a good blast but with the torque the car hasi'm finding it difficultto get to those speeds on britains roads and actually look down to the climate controll...

this post wasn't a should you, do you, need you post.. it was a post designed at giving those includng myself a better insight into what is needed to do this... if you listened to half the stuff on the forum you'd never do anythin oter than the norm... but like i've already proved ths week... not touching a area of the car (in this case actuator) because it's not the "norm" would have left me at 317lb/ft..... doing the actuator has given me 342.13lb/ft which to be honest is a pretty good amount when it's not something thats been looked at by TT's but is utalised on golfs and seats...

Main reason i'm looking at doing the cooler isas bikers says... protection....as has been said i'm in rod bending teritory and anything which may help in preventing that should be explored...


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