# RS Exhaust Noise



## brittan

Soon after I got my RS I noticed a tinny rattle noise from the exhaust at cold start up. It's the flap (or butterfly valve) in the LH tail pipe vibrating in the gas flow that is generated during the first 30 seconds after starting the engine. At 30 secs the flap shuts and the tinny rattle noise stops.

I've tried uploading a video to Photobucket but the upload stalls at 90%.

After a check of my car at the dealer, they fitted a new back box, which includes the tail pipes, flap valves and about half of the exhaust system including the two resonators. The new exhaust made the same tinny rattle for the same 30 secs after start up.

After another check, including sending a video/sound clip to Audi UK, Audi said fit another exhaust system. This third system makes the same tinny rattle for the same 30 secs after start up.

At the dealer today we did a cold start on their demo RS which has the Sport exhaust (mine's standard) and guess what - it made the same tinny rattle for the same 30 secs after start up.

For those of you who have a RS -

1. Have you noticed the tinny rattle on start up?

2. If not, could you listen out for it. Maybe get someone else to start the engine from cold, keep foot off throttle while you listen at the back of the car.

Thank you.


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## daddow

I purchased a MK3 235 bhp, complained about the exhaust , new one fitted at not inconsiderable expense and guess what? no improvement finally got to try other cars same spec and they were exactly the same. Don't blame you for being certain after the investment you have made in the car.


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## macadamia

here's a video of a cold start. does yours sound similar?


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## brittan

In part yes; there's a higher pitch component audible between 20 sec and 27 sec.


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## brittan

Video sorted. Ignore the louder exhaust sound and listen for the underlying rattle noise. It's very apparent when the latter noise stops.

View My Video


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## Jasonoldschool

I have the sports exhaust and had the same problem, Audi replaced mine about 600 miles ago and it is cured now.....on start up it sounded like a bag of marbles in the back box!


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## Demessiah is back

Got the same noise on mine, doesn't really bother me.

Actually the car makes all kind of wierd noises from the engine and exhaust. It's not exactly a refined setup but sounds absolutely delicious when it's really singing it's song.


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## Jasonoldschool

Demessiah is back said:


> Got the same noise on mine, doesn't really bother me.
> 
> Actually the car makes all kind of wierd noises from the engine and exhaust. It's not exactly a refined setup but sounds absolutely delicious when it's really singing it's song.


Agreed!


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## Demessiah is back

And are the tail pipes now part of the actual exhaust?

The black on one of mine has started to fail and silver is showing through, taking it back into audi next week.


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## leopard

This is why they stopped making the RS.

Started with the exhaust and next,the thing fell to bits 

Get rid and run to the hills while you've still got the chance


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## Matrix

Hell, I could live with that noise. I have had to live with engines that sound like a bag of spanners.


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## daddow

leopard said:


> This is why they stopped making the RS.
> 
> Started with the exhaust and next,the thing fell to bits
> 
> Get rid and run to the hills while you've still got the chance


Spent much time in the West Midlands and generally people were fine, If I were you I would spend much less time trolling or trying to be funny, get out more and Maybe something from the nice people could rub off.


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## bainsyboy

Just over a thousand miles in mine and still the engine be fine.... Haven't really noticed the exhaust rattling but have noticed the crackles and pops and people bitching on here about the RS.. Hey ho though life still goes on


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## Demessiah is back

bainsyboy said:


> .... and people bitching on here about the RS.. Hey ho though life still goes on


Always the same when a current top model gets surpassed.

The old guard will bitch about it and find something (like the wheels) they can say they don't like to justify their car.

That is until they can have one, then it will be the best thing since sliced bread :lol:

Seen it so many times before its predictable. It will be the same when the RS plus is released and current RS owners will be crying.


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## bainsyboy

I won't be, as will be thinking of ways to purchase the bugger


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## brittan

It's taken a while to get (nearly) to the bottom of the exhaust noise.

The result is that the factory fitted exhaust did indeed have a a defect with one of the exhaust flaps, in that it rattled at certain gas velocities.

After the second new exhaust was fitted and the metallic rattle that lasted for 30 seconds at cold start remained, I started to look past the exhaust flaps. With the rear of the car on wheel ramps, it was started and by getting partly under the car it was clear that the noise came from the front end of the car.
Further checks, including a cold start while the car was on a lift at the dealer, confirmed that the rattle noise comes from the downpipe area. 
The rattle is almost identical to that produced at cold start by other Audi engines, which have Secondary Air Injection. Neither the new nor the previous RS 5 cylinder engine has Secondary Air Injection.

That the rattle noise is produced by whatever cold start strategy is employed on this engine is now clear; or to put it in 'dealer speak', "It's a characteristic of the car, Sir".

The exact nature of the cold start strategy is not yet identified; the dealer doesn't know, probably won't try that hard to find out and I haven't found a SSP for this engine yet.

Still, looks like the exhaust system isn't going to fall off just yet. 8)


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## brittan

I made some similar comments in powerplay's "First Thoughts" thread":



brittan said:


> On the exhaust rattle at cold start: Check for the noise coming from the area of the catalytic converter at the back of the engine. Raise bonnet, start the car from cold and you then have 30 seconds to lean over the engine and listen to the cat. The rattle should stop after the 30 secs at the same time as the fast idle speed starts to reduce.
> 
> More: I noticed the cold start rattle straight away on mine. I checked and the noise came from the LH flap; there was play in the spindle. Dealer checked and the rear part of the exhaust was changed. The car was warm when I collected it but on the next cold start the noise was still there. Exhaust was replaced a second time and the noise was still there at cold start.
> 
> I did further checks, getting under the car and listening to the engine at cold starts. The flaps were fine, the noise came from the cat area. The dealer demo car made the same noise at cold start.
> Some research found that many Audi engines make a similar noise on cold start. The noise is a product of the strategy used to bring the cat up to working temperature more quickly. The engine is over fuelled and extra air is injected into the exhaust ports by the Secondary Air Injection System. When the extra fuel and extra air meet there is a secondary burn and that heats up the cat and causes the rattle noise.
> 
> Our 5 cylinder engine does not have Secondary Air Injection. Audi are phasing out that system. On ours, a combination of extra fuel being injected and a change in cam timing conspire to create the condition for a secondary burn in the cat.
> I suspect that the exhaust cam timing is altered such that the valves open early, while cylinder combustion is still in progress but I have yet to confirm that point.
> 
> To sum up:
> 1. If the exhaust flaps rattle, get it to the dealer to fix.
> 2. If the noise comes from the catalytic converter area, it's normal, its' supposed to do that - even, "It's a characteristic of the car, Sir."


I had a video of the cold start noise made at the dealer as part of getting an answer on how the 5 cylinder engine makes the rattle noise without Secondary Air Injection. 
That answer from Audi Technical is quite short:
Historically a secondary air system was used to allow for an optimized heating phase of the catalyst assemblies from cold, with the advancement of technology this has been phased out and replaced with a precise control of the cam timing and engine fuelling to achieve the same result without additional components - the rattle is a side affect of this optimized catalyst management and is current production series standard. 

For comparison, here's a video of a cold start on an engine WITH Secondary Air injection:
During the time that the twonk stops speaking you can hear the higher pitches rattle noise above the exhaust sound. 
*Warning; Graphic twonk content:*


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## powerplay

I've done a video of my exhaust on cold start, does this sound like the exhaust flap rattle or the other "characteristic of the car" rattle?


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## brittan

The sound and the running time seem to be characteristic of the "characteristic of the car".  
My video is in post 5, page 1.

It's hard to tell the difference between flap rattle and characteristic rattle in the first 30 seconds as both sounds could be present. In that 30 seconds you can eliminate or confirm the flap rattle by putting a finger on the flap spindle.

With the flap rattle present, I found that I could make it rattle after the cold start period by revving to a bit over 2000rpm and lifting off.


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## powerplay

Thanks, I'll have to get down on my hands and knees for further examination :lol:


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## brittan

You can also try the cold start with the bonnet open and you should hear the rattle coming from the turbo/cat area.


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## powerplay

I also get a fainter rattle that can be heard from inside the car when accelerating, seems to come from the rear but disappears if you set the exhaust to sport.


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## brittan

powerplay said:


> I also get a fainter rattle that can be heard from inside the car when accelerating, seems to come from the rear but disappears if you set the exhaust to sport.


Assuming that's after the cold start period, the flaps would be the first thing to check. They are electrically operated, not vacuum actuated as on the Mk2.


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## powerplay

brittan said:


> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also get a fainter rattle that can be heard from inside the car when accelerating, seems to come from the rear but disappears if you set the exhaust to sport.
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming that's after the cold start period, the flaps would be the first thing to check. They are electrically operated, not vacuum actuated as on the Mk2.
Click to expand...

Ok good info thanks. I tend to wait for the cold start to end before driving - although this RS does seem to have rather different behaivour to the mk2 cold start which seemed to really rev the engine and slip the clutch during the cold start period.


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## Nyxx

I have to say even though I can hear the "rattle" the over riding thing I hear is

One hell of an amazing sound. The Engine Start button should be renamed LOL. Because it would make me smile ear to ear every time I pressed it.


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## Alex_S

My car has been in with Audi all week to look at the cold start rattle and most annoying the rattle when driving between 1.5-2.5k revs with exhaust in standard mode.

After sending sound files over to Germany they could not confirm if there was a problem or if that is how it should sound (really??!!).

They have now instructed my dealer to perform a sound comparison against another TTRS which they cannot do as they or there partner dealers do not have / know when they will receive any future cars.

So I have to collect it today and just live with it :?

Any help on this matter will be appreciated, and anyone who has had this resolved with their own car please contact me.


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## Alex_S

Nyxx said:


> I have to say even though I can hear the "rattle" the over riding thing I hear is
> 
> One hell of an amazing sound. The Engine Start button should be renamed LOL. Because it would make me smile ear to ear every time I pressed it.


On my car id rename the button 'CRINGE', its actually embarrassing when starting up as it sounds like the exhaust is falling off!


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## Alex_S

powerplay said:


> I also get a fainter rattle that can be heard from inside the car when accelerating, seems to come from the rear but disappears if you set the exhaust to sport.


Sounds like the same as what im experiencing between 1.5-2.5k rpm. Only faint when windows are closed but when open its quite loud. And from the outside ive been told it does not sound good from work colleagues / neighbours etc who hear me pull off every day.


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## brittan

Alex_S said:


> Any help on this matter will be appreciated, and anyone who has had this resolved with their own car please contact me.


My story of the exhaust noise is all on this thread. Copy or download my video on page 1 if you want to.

The cold start rattle during the cat heating phase is explained a few posts back. If the rattle noise is heard other than at cold start for 30 seconds then something else is wrong. On mine it was the LH exhaust flap.
There was no argument over changing the rear half of the exhaust.

If the rattle at 1.5-2.5k revs changes or goes away with changing between standard and sport exhaust, one or both flaps are obvious potential culprits to confirm or eliminate.


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## Alex_S

brittan said:


> Alex_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any help on this matter will be appreciated, and anyone who has had this resolved with their own car please contact me.
> 
> 
> 
> My story of the exhaust noise is all on this thread. Copy or download my video on page 1 if you want to.
> 
> The cold start rattle during the cat heating phase is explained a few posts back. If the rattle noise is heard other than at cold start for 30 seconds then something else is wrong. On mine it was the LH exhaust flap.
> There was no argument over changing the rear half of the exhaust.
> 
> If the rattle at 1.5-2.5k revs changes or goes away with changing between standard and sport exhaust, one or both flaps are obvious potential culprits to confirm or eliminate.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, which dealer carried our the repair work as I will ask my dealer to contact them?


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## powerplay

Alex_S said:


> brittan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alex_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any help on this matter will be appreciated, and anyone who has had this resolved with their own car please contact me.
> 
> 
> 
> My story of the exhaust noise is all on this thread. Copy or download my video on page 1 if you want to.
> 
> The cold start rattle during the cat heating phase is explained a few posts back. If the rattle noise is heard other than at cold start for 30 seconds then something else is wrong. On mine it was the LH exhaust flap.
> There was no argument over changing the rear half of the exhaust.
> 
> If the rattle at 1.5-2.5k revs changes or goes away with changing between standard and sport exhaust, one or both flaps are obvious potential culprits to confirm or eliminate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for that, which dealer carried our the repair work as I will ask my dealer to contact them?
Click to expand...

I would also be interested to know


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## brittan

Alex_S said:


> Thanks for that, which dealer carried our the repair work as I will ask my dealer to contact them?





powerplay said:


> I would also be interested to know


PM sent.


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## psglas

Here's an interesting alternative to the factory exhausts.

https://www.hg-motorsport.de/shop/produ ... RS-8S.html


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## brittan

psglas said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lessv8WXGJQ


Nah; I couldn't get past the driver wearing string-back driving gloves. Maybe it was Alan Partridge. :lol:


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## ROBH49

Just noticed this morning while taking the car out of the garage the so called rattle from the exhaust, it only lasts for approximately 30/50 seconds then disappears.

So I take it from what's been said so far that this is normal, I haven't noticed it at any other time or in any other modes or even when the sports exhaust is activated so I`m taking it that all is fine?


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## powerplay

ROBH49 said:


> Just noticed this morning while taking the car out of the garage the so called rattle from the exhaust, it only lasts for approximately 30/50 seconds then disappears.
> 
> So I take it from what's been said so far that this is normal, I haven't noticed it at any other time or in any other modes or even when the sports exhaust is activated so I`m taking it that all is fine?


If it's "that" rattle then you'll notice it coming from the rear left pipe. It will be prominent on cold-start so will last approx 30 secs until the idle drops to normal.

You'll possibly notice a mild rattle too when driving when accelerating with revs around 1.5 - 2.5krpm with the valve closed (comfort mode) - I can hear mine with the windows open.

To be sure, next time you cold start, look underneath the rear left pipe and press your finger on the protruding flap spindle, if that stops the rattle then I'm afraid you have it :lol:

Mine's in for replacement next week....


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## brittan

Yes, as I've posted that noise is from the fuelling and cam timing changes during cold start to bring the cat up to working temperature more quickly.

Unless you have the rattle noise at times other than during that 30 second phase, it's normal. Rattles at other times will most likely be one of the exhaust flaps.

If you press the button for sports exhaust during the 30 sec warm up phase, the flap remains shut until the warm up phase is complete.


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## Alex_S

ROBH49 said:


> Just noticed this morning while taking the car out of the garage the so called rattle from the exhaust, it only lasts for approximately 30/50 seconds then disappears.
> 
> So I take it from what's been said so far that this is normal, I haven't noticed it at any other time or in any other modes or even when the sports exhaust is activated so I`m taking it that all is fine?


Mine rattles loudly when exhaust is in standard mode when driving at around 2k rpm. Unfortunately Audi Uk have rejected any warranty work as they say that they cant confirm if it is a fault or the nature of the exhaust sound.

This is despite other forum members having warranty work carried out for the same fault which I have provided details of.

Any suggestions would be appreciated before I throw my toys out and just walk into the dealer and hand them back the keys and log book, and cancel my finance DD which I know will prove troublesome!


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## Alex_S

brittan said:


> Yes, as I've posted that noise is from the fuelling and cam timing changes during cold start to bring the cat up to working temperature more quickly.
> 
> Unless you have the rattle noise at times other than during that 30 second phase, it's normal. Rattles at other times will most likely be one of the exhaust flaps.
> 
> If you press the button for sports exhaust during the 30 sec warm up phase, the flap remains shut until the warm up phase is complete.


Hi brittan, see my post above. This is despite the info that you provided me with.


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## Alex_S

powerplay said:


> ROBH49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just noticed this morning while taking the car out of the garage the so called rattle from the exhaust, it only lasts for approximately 30/50 seconds then disappears.
> 
> So I take it from what's been said so far that this is normal, I haven't noticed it at any other time or in any other modes or even when the sports exhaust is activated so I`m taking it that all is fine?
> 
> 
> 
> If it's "that" rattle then you'll notice it coming from the rear left pipe. It will be prominent on cold-start so will last approx 30 secs until the idle drops to normal.
> 
> You'll possibly notice a mild rattle too when driving when accelerating with revs around 1.5 - 2.5krpm with the valve closed (comfort mode) - I can hear mine with the windows open.
> 
> To be sure, next time you cold start, look underneath the rear left pipe and press your finger on the protruding flap spindle, if that stops the rattle then I'm afraid you have it :lol:
> 
> Mine's in for replacement next week....
Click to expand...

How did you manage to get the work carried out? Ive escalated mine to the Audi UK and they have rejected any warranty work to be carried out!


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## powerplay

Alex_S said:


> ROBH49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just noticed this morning while taking the car out of the garage the so called rattle from the exhaust, it only lasts for approximately 30/50 seconds then disappears.
> 
> So I take it from what's been said so far that this is normal, I haven't noticed it at any other time or in any other modes or even when the sports exhaust is activated so I`m taking it that all is fine?
> 
> 
> 
> Mine rattles loudly when exhaust is in standard mode when driving at around 2k rpm. Unfortunately Audi Uk have rejected any warranty work as they say that they cant confirm if it is a fault or the nature of the exhaust sound.
> 
> This is despite other forum members having warranty work carried out for the same fault which I have provided details of.
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated before I throw my toys out and just walk into the dealer and hand them back the keys and log book, and cancel my finance DD which I know will prove troublesome!
Click to expand...

Are you able to record a vid of your rattle from cold start and possibly while driving? That's all that was needed for my local dealer to agree it needs replacing. I'll hopefully be able to let you know the outcome of mine later next week.


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## ROBH49

I`ve not noticed any rattle after the warm up faze so hopefully all is fine, I will do what Powerplay has suggested re the left-hand side pipe and will check the flap tomorrow morning.

Thanks for the help its much appreciated.


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## brittan

Alex_S said:


> brittan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, as I've posted that noise is from the fuelling and cam timing changes during cold start to bring the cat up to working temperature more quickly.
> 
> Unless you have the rattle noise at times other than during that 30 second phase, it's normal. Rattles at other times will most likely be one of the exhaust flaps.
> 
> If you press the button for sports exhaust during the 30 sec warm up phase, the flap remains shut until the warm up phase is complete.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi brittan, see my post above. This is despite the info that you provided me with.
Click to expand...

The rattle at 2k revs is almost certainly one of the exhaust flaps. Both powerplay and I had that from the LH flap. Try what pp suggests ref putting your finger on the flap spindle during cold start or after cold start get someone to rev the engine to around 2k revs and try the finger/spindle test.


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## Alex_S

brittan said:


> Alex_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> brittan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, as I've posted that noise is from the fuelling and cam timing changes during cold start to bring the cat up to working temperature more quickly.
> 
> Unless you have the rattle noise at times other than during that 30 second phase, it's normal. Rattles at other times will most likely be one of the exhaust flaps.
> 
> If you press the button for sports exhaust during the 30 sec warm up phase, the flap remains shut until the warm up phase is complete.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi brittan, see my post above. This is despite the info that you provided me with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rattle at 2k revs is almost certainly one of the exhaust flaps. Both powerplay and I had that from the LH flap. Try what pp suggests ref putting your finger on the flap spindle during cold start or after cold start get someone to rev the engine to around 2k revs and try the finger/spindle test.
Click to expand...

Thanks, will try that out


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## TFP

Alex_S said:


> Mine rattles loudly when exhaust is in standard mode when driving at around 2k rpm. Unfortunately Audi Uk have rejected any warranty work as they say that they cant confirm if it is a fault or the nature of the exhaust sound.


That's laughable.

Manufacturers go to great lengths designing these exhaust systems to make a nice sporty noise.

I have to say, they've done a great job on the RS.

But should it rattle at 2000 revs???

Are we really stupid enough to believe Audi would have designed it to rattle????


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## Aoon_M

RS3 8V has this same issue, again the mechanical flap (not the motor) is part of the backbox itself and full system must be replaced. Many friends have been through a few systems and have the same issue. I luckily don't have the issue! But I did have it at one point of the cars life.. It went away..


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## Aoon_M

Also you will find the left tail pipe to emit more sound in general,

The system has a sound chamber on the left hand side, this acts like a mechanical speaker amplifying the exhaust sound


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## psglas

I've had mine changed once but same issue, it's even worse on the latest one actually. I have the standard system, does the sports exhaust have the same issue?

I think it's the same system as the RS3 as my dealer asked me if I'd had the exhaust changed because I had an RS3 exhaust fitted. Right now I'm waiting to hear back about what's going to happen next.


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## powerplay

Mine is the sports exhaust, I imagine all the parts are 90% the same.

Goes in to dealer next week to be replaced.

It rattles quite badly I hadn't considered the possibility the replacement could be worse


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## brittan

powerplay said:


> It rattles quite badly I hadn't considered the possibility the replacement could be worse


I would expect the technician to compare flap spindle side play on new and rattly exhausts before carrying out the replacement work and reject the new system if the side play was the same or worse than the original. But maybe the job card doesn't include, "use some common engineering sense".


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## powerplay

Just had a call from my local Audi where I left my car this morning for the exhaust rattle.

Good news is they've diagnosed the fault and concur with my suggestion it's a loose valve flap in the left side and requires a new back box.

Bad news is that their central stock warehouse at Milton Keynes is showing the item, recently readily available, is now on back-order. They suspect it may have been withdrawn by Audi Germany.

It is available in Germany and they are now placing it on backorder there, so will be 7-10 days lead time apparently.


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## TFP

powerplay said:


> Just had a call from my local Audi where I left my car this morning for the exhaust rattle.
> 
> Good news is they've diagnosed the fault and concur with my suggestion it's a loose valve flap in the left side and requires a new back box.
> 
> Bad news is that their central stock warehouse at Milton Keynes is showing the item, recently readily available, is now on back-order. They suspect it may have been withdrawn by Audi Germany.
> 
> It is available in Germany and they are now placing it on backorder there, so will be 7-10 days lead time apparently.


Mine was diagnosed on 21st April as needing this repair, I chased them up last week and was told it's still on back order.

I understand them withdrawing the part if it's not fixing the issue, I suppose it's a new car/system and may take time to re design it.

I'm happy to wait as long as it gets sorted eventually.

Maybe this is the reason the order books were closed, I know of at least one new car that was rejected by the customer over the cold start up rattle.


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## powerplay

TFP said:


> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just had a call from my local Audi where I left my car this morning for the exhaust rattle.
> 
> Good news is they've diagnosed the fault and concur with my suggestion it's a loose valve flap in the left side and requires a new back box.
> 
> Bad news is that their central stock warehouse at Milton Keynes is showing the item, recently readily available, is now on back-order. They suspect it may have been withdrawn by Audi Germany.
> 
> It is available in Germany and they are now placing it on backorder there, so will be 7-10 days lead time apparently.
> 
> 
> 
> Mine was diagnosed on 21st April as needing this repair, I chased them up last week and was told it's still on back order.
> 
> I understand them withdrawing the part if it's not fixing the issue, I suppose it's a new car/system and may take time to re design it.
> 
> I'm happy to wait as long as it gets sorted eventually.
> 
> Maybe this is the reason the order books were closed, I know of at least one new car that was rejected by the customer over the cold start up rattle.
Click to expand...

Oh!

Odd as when I originally reported the issue they only came back to me and arranged to book it in after they'd checked and were told the part was available.

Unless they didn't check thoroughly, ie maybe the normal exhaust is available but the sport exhaust is on back order :?


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## brittan

powerplay said:


> Just had a call from my local Audi where I left my car this morning for the exhaust rattle.
> 
> Good news is they've diagnosed the fault and concur with my suggestion it's a loose valve flap in the left side and requires a new back box.
> 
> Bad news is that their central stock warehouse at Milton Keynes is showing the item, recently readily available, is now on back-order. They suspect it may have been withdrawn by Audi Germany.
> 
> It is available in Germany and they are now placing it on backorder there, so will be 7-10 days lead time apparently.


The good news is good; no argument there.

My back box (incl flaps etc) was replaced twice and the dealer said the old parts were called in by Audi for investigation into a possible bad batch of product. I expect it's something as simple as a batch of flap spindle and/or spindle bearings which are outside dimension tolerances.


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## psglas

My dealer has investigated further today and there's now a service bulletin for this issue. It's says there's no current fix and dealers should take no action until one is available.


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## powerplay

My dealer have already placed an order for a new backbox, 7-10 days.

I wonder if they'll get it or be told to hold-fire too?

Chatting today, the cost to them is in excess of £1200.


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## TFP

psglas said:


> My dealer has investigated further today and there's now a service bulletin for this issue. It's says there's no current fix and dealers should take no action until one is available.


Thank you for that info.

I guessed that might be the case.

I wonder if the new cars coming later in the year will have this problem?


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## powerplay

TFP said:


> psglas said:
> 
> 
> 
> My dealer has investigated further today and there's now a service bulletin for this issue. It's says there's no current fix and dealers should take no action until one is available.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for that info.
> 
> I guessed that might be the case.
> 
> I wonder if the new cars coming later in the year will have this problem?
Click to expand...

You would think not - but this is VAG....

2005 Golf and A3 creaking steering rack... known issue... 2008 TTS same... 2011 A3.... same!!


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## psglas

I would hope an issue like this isn't too difficult for a corporation like Audi to fix but you never know. They will get so many complaints and returns as it's rather annoying when the engine is idling in traffic. I would think they'll want it fixed before they release any cars to the USA.


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## psglas

Quick question as this thread seems to have various actual owners reading. Does anyone know how to reset the G Meter on the virtual cockpit ?


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## powerplay

Is that a little bit of a rattle I hear? :lol:


----------



## brittan

Can't hear a thing . . . . :roll:


----------



## Alan Sl

powerplay said:


> Is that a little bit of a rattle I hear? :lol:


I think the car is the RS TDI model - my dream car


----------



## Alex_S

TFP said:


> psglas said:
> 
> 
> 
> My dealer has investigated further today and there's now a service bulletin for this issue. It's says there's no current fix and dealers should take no action until one is available.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for that info.
> 
> I guessed that might be the case.
> 
> I wonder if the new cars coming later in the year will have this problem?
Click to expand...

I escalated my case to Audi UK who then then told me basically the same, and this had come from Audi Germany. I advised and gave details of all the cases on here to which they replied that forums are not reliable sources and that one fault on one car is not necessarily the same on another!

Ive been advised to wait a couple of months until new stock becomes available for them to sound check against.


----------



## powerplay

Had an update from my dealer today.

Although they had hoped the parts would be available by now they are still on back-order, however they have had confirmation from Germany a new rear exhaust has been allocated and is due to be shiped on or around 8th August.


----------



## brittan

Maybe you will get a modified version to eliminate the flap rattle? 8)


----------



## powerplay

Well here's hoping.

Saw a review recently of a brand new RS in America - had the rattle... :roll:


----------



## ormandj

powerplay said:


> Well here's hoping.
> 
> Saw a review recently of a brand new RS in America - had the rattle... :roll:


Have a link? Thank you.


----------



## powerplay




----------



## ormandj

powerplay said:


>


There are no convertible TT RS in America. Not sure what country plate that is, but it isn't US.


----------



## powerplay

ormandj said:


> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are no convertible TT RS in America. Not sure what country plate that is, but it isn't US.
Click to expand...

Wrong one - that was bad though eh? :lol:

This is the one I meant


----------



## ormandj

powerplay said:


> ormandj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are no convertible TT RS in America. Not sure what country plate that is, but it isn't US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong one - that was bad though eh? :lol:
> 
> This is the one I meant
Click to expand...

Hah, yes. I saw that second video as well, that sounds like the startup noise that all of these have for thirty seconds on cold start. I don't hear any rattle beyond that. I was told that I should unfortunately expect the cold start rattle, but anything beyond that is not expected.


----------



## powerplay

ormandj said:


> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ormandj said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no convertible TT RS in America. Not sure what country plate that is, but it isn't US.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong one - that was bad though eh? :lol:
> 
> This is the one I meant
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hah, yes. I saw that second video as well, that sounds like the startup noise that all of these have for thirty seconds on cold start. I don't hear any rattle beyond that. I was told that I should unfortunately expect the cold start rattle, but anything beyond that is not expected.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately that's likely not to be the case, in my experience. It's exactly the same flap spindle that rattles around 2-2.5krpm when closed, and mine rattles even when open when it gets hot, ie after a spell of spirited driving.


----------



## ZephyR2

That rattle from cold sounds just like a car I had once before. I've been racking my brains for a while trying to place which car it was but listening again now its come to me. My wife's Fiat Panda from around 1990. :lol:


----------



## Rumney

ZephyR2 said:


> That rattle from cold sounds just like a car I had once before. I've been racking my brains for a while trying to place which car it was but listening again now its come to me. My wife's Fiat Panda from around 1990. :lol:


+1 My previous car was a 2010 Porsche Boxster (2.9 6 cylinder) and I had the exhaust 'rattle' on cold start every time. It only lasted a few minutes - once the exhaust had heated up the 'rattle' completely disappeared. The Porsche dealer reckoned that it was the 'cat' warming up. Learnt to easily live with it and didn't consider it a problem.

I know this thread relates to the RS but I now have an MY17 TT Roadster 2.0 Sline and, for what it's worth, it has no exhaust rattle at all


----------



## brittan

Rumney said:


> +1 My previous car was a 2010 Porsche Boxster (2.9 6 cylinder) and I had the exhaust 'rattle' on cold start every time. It only lasted a few minutes - once the exhaust had heated up the 'rattle' completely disappeared. The Porsche dealer reckoned that it was the 'cat' warming up. Learnt to easily live with it and didn't consider it a problem.


Your dealer was correct. Like many of the other Audi engines I checked during my investigations, that Boxster engine has Secondary Air Injection where an electric pump injects air into the exhaust port, downstream of the exhaust valve, where it combines with the excess fuel injected during cold start, creating a secondary burn in the cat and bringing the cat up to working temperature (~300degC) more quickly. Additionally the secondary burn oxidises unburnt hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide to form water and carbon dioxide, thus reducing emissions.

My initial concern with the Mk3 RS engine was that it does not have a Secondary Air Injection system. I eventually found out that the RS engine creates the same burn in the cat but by a different process that eliminates the need for the Secondary Air Injection system. That took me a while as the local dealer had no clue and were slow and reluctant to assist.



Rumney said:


> I know this thread relates to the RS but I now have an MY17 TT Roadster 2.0 Sline and, for what it's worth, it has no exhaust rattle at all


The 2.0 litre engine does not need a method to heat the cat to meet the emissions targets; it's usually only necessary on larger capacity engines. 
The Mk2 RS engine had no system to create the secondary burn so must have met the required emission target without the need for a rattle.


----------



## Rumney

brittan said:


> Rumney said:
> 
> 
> 
> +1 My previous car was a 2010 Porsche Boxster (2.9 6 cylinder) and I had the exhaust 'rattle' on cold start every time. It only lasted a few minutes - once the exhaust had heated up the 'rattle' completely disappeared. The Porsche dealer reckoned that it was the 'cat' warming up. Learnt to easily live with it and didn't consider it a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Your dealer was correct. Like many of the other Audi engines I checked during my investigations, that Boxster engine has Secondary Air Injection where an electric pump injects air into the exhaust port, downstream of the exhaust valve, where it combines with the excess fuel injected during cold start, creating a secondary burn in the cat and bringing the cat up to working temperature (~300degC) more quickly. Additionally the secondary burn oxidises unburnt hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide to form water and carbon dioxide, thus reducing emissions.
> 
> My initial concern with the Mk3 RS engine was that it does not have a Secondary Air Injection system. I eventually found out that the RS engine creates the same burn in the cat but by a different process that eliminates the need for the Secondary Air Injection system. That took me a while as the local dealer had no clue and were slow and reluctant to assist.
> 
> 
> 
> Rumney said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know this thread relates to the RS but I now have an MY17 TT Roadster 2.0 Sline and, for what it's worth, it has no exhaust rattle at all
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The 2.0 litre engine does not need a method to heat the cat to meet the emissions targets; it's usually only necessary on larger capacity engines.
> The Mk2 RS engine had no system to create the secondary burn so must have met the required emission target without the need for a rattle.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the confirmation Brittan - so as long as the RS exhaust 'rattle' goes away once the 'cat' has warmed up then there is a non-issue reported here


----------



## powerplay

Rumney said:


> brittan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your dealer was correct. Like many of the other Audi engines I checked during my investigations, that Boxster engine has Secondary Air Injection where an electric pump injects air into the exhaust port, downstream of the exhaust valve, where it combines with the excess fuel injected during cold start, creating a secondary burn in the cat and bringing the cat up to working temperature (~300degC) more quickly. Additionally the secondary burn oxidises unburnt hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide to form water and carbon dioxide, thus reducing emissions.
> 
> My initial concern with the Mk3 RS engine was that it does not have a Secondary Air Injection system. I eventually found out that the RS engine creates the same burn in the cat but by a different process that eliminates the need for the Secondary Air Injection system. That took me a while as the local dealer had no clue and were slow and reluctant to assist.
> 
> 
> 
> Rumney said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know this thread relates to the RS but I now have an MY17 TT Roadster 2.0 Sline and, for what it's worth, it has no exhaust rattle at all
> 
> 
> 
> The 2.0 litre engine does not need a method to heat the cat to meet the emissions targets; it's usually only necessary on larger capacity engines.
> The Mk2 RS engine had no system to create the secondary burn so must have met the required emission target without the need for a rattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the confirmation Brittan - so as long as the RS exhaust 'rattle' goes away once the 'cat' has warmed up then there is a non-issue reported here
Click to expand...

Yeah. It doesn't though, it's a manufacturing fault, my local dealer has confirmed hence Brittan's warranty replacement and my upcoming one


----------



## brittan

[quote="Rumney"Thanks for the confirmation Brittan - so as long as the RS exhaust 'rattle' goes away once the 'cat' has warmed up then there is a non-issue reported here [/quote]
Yes.

Those of us who have had the rattle that does not go away at the completion of the 30sec warm up period, have found the noise comes from one of the exhaust flaps - the left one more often being the culprit. 
The cold start/warm up rattle and the flap rattle are very similar sounds, particularly if you listen at the rear of the car; hence there can be some confusion in diagnosis. Usually the flap rattle can be made to happen at around 2000rpm after the warm up period is complete.

One other thing that prolonged accurate diagnosis was that my dealer (the Master Tech) had no specific knowledge of,or training for, the new 5 cylinder engine and so knew nothing of the many differences to the Mk2 RS engine. Other on here have found the same with their dealers.

I did my own investigation, found that the cold start rattle came from the cat/turbo area and went from there.


----------



## TFP

Rumney said:


> Thanks for the confirmation Brittan - so as long as the RS exhaust 'rattle' goes away once the 'cat' has warmed up then there is a non-issue reported here


Really?

So you think it's an acceptable noise for a 50k sports car to make?

I've had enough cars over the years to know that Audi sport would have not designed the car to make a rattle.

it's a design fault.


----------



## Rumney

TFP said:


> Rumney said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the confirmation Brittan - so as long as the RS exhaust 'rattle' goes away once the 'cat' has warmed up then there is a non-issue reported here
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> 
> So you think it's an acceptable noise for a 50k sports car to make?
> 
> I've had enough cars over the years to know that Audi sport would have not designed the car to make a rattle.
> 
> it's a design fault.
Click to expand...

Not quite TFP - from my own experiences (Porsche) and Brittan's investigations (Audi) some Cat 'rattle' until the exhaust warms up is common and the reason for it is eloquently described by Brittan. However, continues rattle once warm is obviously not acceptable, no matter what price car.

I'm not saying there is no defect here - simply that it's common and technically understandable during the short exhaust warm up period which should not be confused with what may well be a defect if it continues post warm up.


----------



## TFP

Rumney said:


> TFP said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rumney said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the confirmation Brittan - so as long as the RS exhaust 'rattle' goes away once the 'cat' has warmed up then there is a non-issue reported here
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> 
> So you think it's an acceptable noise for a 50k sports car to make?
> 
> I've had enough cars over the years to know that Audi sport would have not designed the car to make a rattle.
> 
> it's a design fault.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not quite TFP - from my own experiences (Porsche) and Brittan's investigations (Audi) some Cat 'rattle' until the exhaust warms up is common and the reason for it is eloquently described by Brittan. However, continues rattle once warm is obviously not acceptable, no matter what price car.
> 
> I'm not saying there is no defect here - simply that it's common and technically understandable during the short exhaust warm up period which should not be confused with what may well be a defect if it continues post warm up.
Click to expand...

If everyone accepts that Audi will be very pleased as they wont have to do anything about it.

When Audi sport engineers/designers made decisions about how they wanted the car to sound I'm sure they didn't decide that it should sound awful on a cold start up.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I don't accept it at all.


----------



## Rumney

TFP said:


> Rumney said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite TFP - from my own experiences (Porsche) and Brittan's investigations (Audi) some Cat 'rattle' until the exhaust warms up is common and the reason for it is eloquently described by Brittan. However, continues rattle once warm is obviously not acceptable, no matter what price car.
> 
> I'm not saying there is no defect here - simply that it's common and technically understandable during the short exhaust warm up period which should not be confused with what may well be a defect if it continues post warm up.
> 
> 
> 
> If everyone accepts that Audi will be very pleased as they wont have to do anything about it.
> 
> When Audi sport engineers/designers made decisions about how they wanted the car to sound I'm sure they didn't decide that it should sound awful on a cold start up.
> 
> Sorry for the sarcasm, but I don't accept it at all.
Click to expand...

Tim - I guess we will have to agree to differ then 

For me some rattle until the exhaust warms is acceptable. Agreed, the engineers would not have designed this in but it is understandable (per Brittan's explanation) and perhaps unavoidable.

I guess that this thread is really all about a continual rattle (cold and warm) which is not acceptable to anyone and a defect that Audi need to resolve.

Enough said? :?


----------



## brittan

I've posted the short explanation from the Audi Tech people at Milton Keynes before:

"Historically a secondary air system was used to allow for an optimized heating phase of the catalyst assemblies from cold, with the advancement of technology this has been phased out and replaced with a precise control of the cam timing and engine fuelling to achieve the same result without additional components - the rattle is a side affect of this optimized catalyst management and is current production series standard."

I doubt that Audi 'decided' the car should sound like a can of marbles on cold start, it's just the sound of rapid individual burns of fuel/air mixture in or just before the catalytic converter and, as described above, a side effect of the cold start strategy.

The exhaust flap rattle is a manufacturing defect. My current (replacement) exhaust system is has same design but a tighter fit of the flap spindle in its "bearing" - and there's no flap rattle.


----------



## TFP

brittan said:


> I doubt that Audi 'decided' the car should sound like a can of marbles on cold start, it's just the sound of rapid individual burns of fuel/air mixture in or just before the catalytic converter and, as described above, a side effect of the cold start strategy.


So they need to re design it then.

And I'm fairly certain this is why the order books were closed.

Time will tell, let's see if the new cars later this year make the same noise.


----------



## powerplay

Well call from the service dept today, a large box has arrived!

Car booked in later this week, confirmed the replacement exhaust has a different part no to the existing one so fingers XXXd :lol:


----------



## brittan

powerplay said:


> Well call from the service dept today, a large box has arrived!
> 
> Car booked in later this week, confirmed the replacement exhaust has a different part no to the existing one so fingers XXXd :lol:


That's interesting. Hope the change effects a proper repair. 
If you can, could you try to grab the new part number please as it won't be on any paperwork: there's usually none for warranty work. My replacement exhausts will be the original model and I expect it to fail at some time.


----------



## TFP

powerplay said:


> Well call from the service dept today, a large box has arrived!
> 
> Car booked in later this week, confirmed the replacement exhaust has a different part no to the existing one so fingers XXXd :lol:


That's good news, look forward to hearing the outcome.


----------



## powerplay

Update - rattle is... gone!  

New exhaust fitted today, the complete rear section and mid-pipe, including shiny new exhaust tips. The old ones were a bit pitted and marked so that's a bonus :lol:

Some pics:


----------



## brittan

Good result, finally. Nice to have it fixed.


----------



## JulesB

powerplay said:


> Update - rattle is... gone!
> 
> New exhaust fitted today, the complete rear section and mid-pipe, including shiny new exhaust tips. The old ones were a bit pitted and marked so that's a bonus :lol:
> 
> Some pics:
> View attachment 5
> 
> View attachment 4
> 
> View attachment 3
> 
> View attachment 2
> 
> View attachment 1


Hi Powerplay

I have my TTRS Roadster booked in with dealer in a couple of weeks time for the exact same issues you and Brittan have been experiencing. So have the replacement exhaust components sorted both the startup rattle and the low revs rattle (once warmed up in comfort mode) or just the latter?

Thanks


----------



## powerplay

JulesB said:


> Hi Powerplay
> 
> I have my TTRS Roadster booked in with dealer in a couple of weeks time for the exact same issues you and Brittan have been experiencing. So have the replacement exhaust components sorted both the startup rattle and the low revs rattle (once warmed up in comfort mode) or just the latter?
> Thanks


Yes it has, tested extensively on my commute today, no start up rattle or whilst driving - sounds gorgeous!

In fact it's now so quiet on startup I can clearly discern the "other" rattle Brittan refers to from the front - for the first time :lol:


----------



## powerplay

Here's the before and after.

Now I know what to listen for, in the before vid you can hear the "fast clatter" that is the cat pre-heat process along with the rattle from the exhaust.

In the after vid you can only hear this with no rattle, also the clatter stops while the rpm are still elevated before it drops to idle.

Before:





After:


----------



## brittan

powerplay said:


> In fact it's now so quiet on startup I can clearly discern the "other" rattle Brittan refers to from the front - for the first time :lol:


  8)


----------



## psglas

Do you know if they did a software update when they fitted the exhaust ? There was one released on the 2nd August.


----------



## powerplay

psglas said:


> Do you know if they did a software update when they fitted the exhaust ? There was one released on the 2nd August.


If they did there was no mention of it, so I suspect not.

What was updated?


----------



## psglas

ECU update AFAIK. My son has access to the audi system but there are no specfics. I'm wondering if it would affect the cold start behaviour.


----------



## psglas

It's for the gearbox. Noting to do with the exhaust AFAIK,


----------



## powerplay

psglas said:


> It's for the gearbox. Noting to do with the exhaust AFAIK,


Interesting! Do you know or are you able to find out what it addresses or changes about the gearbox?

Here's hoping it sorts out the delay on upshifts when not hooning around :lol:


----------



## powerplay

psglas said:


> ECU update AFAIK. My son has access to the audi system but there are no specfics. I'm wondering if it would affect the cold start behaviour.


I popped into Audi today and asked about this update.

Nothing outstanding is showing, pop in the VIN and various details appear but under "Campaigns" there is nothing outstanding.

The service chap was very helpful and said there might be something to address a specific fault which is applied on an as-needed basis, but without more info it's hard to say.

He did show me however there is nothing "generic" outstanding.


----------



## psglas

Might be specific to the car. Mine has the 174mph delimited option which will likely be different software.


----------



## Alex_S

powerplay said:


> Update - rattle is... gone!
> 
> New exhaust fitted today, the complete rear section and mid-pipe, including shiny new exhaust tips. The old ones were a bit pitted and marked so that's a bonus :lol:
> 
> Some pics:
> View attachment 5
> 
> View attachment 4
> 
> View attachment 3
> 
> View attachment 2
> 
> View attachment 1


Glad to hear that you got it resolved. Unfortunately Audi UK wont authorise any work on mine despite me sharing yours and Brittans examples.


----------



## powerplay

Alex_S said:


> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Update - rattle is... gone!
> 
> New exhaust fitted today, the complete rear section and mid-pipe, including shiny new exhaust tips. The old ones were a bit pitted and marked so that's a bonus :lol:
> 
> Some pics:
> View attachment 5
> 
> View attachment 4
> 
> View attachment 3
> 
> View attachment 2
> 
> View attachment 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to hear that you got it resolved. Unfortunately Audi UK wont authorise any work on mine despite me sharing yours and Brittans examples.
Click to expand...

Sounds a bit bizarre

I don't know where in the country you are so might be a trip but why not pop in to Eastbourne Audi, they diagnosed mine with no issues and arranged the replacement.

They'd have to be able to justify why one car should qualify for it but another wouldn't? :?


----------



## brittan

Alex_S said:


> Glad to hear that you got it resolved. Unfortunately Audi UK wont authorise any work on mine despite me sharing yours and Brittans examples.


There was a period when dealers were blocked from doing any repairs/replacements for the RS exhaust noise. My replacements were before that but powerplay's was after, hence his comment about a different part number for the rear half of the exhaust system.

I would not be surprised if Audi UK were behind with the news. Us customers cannot speak directly to the technical people at Milton Keynes but your dealer can raise a DISS report to ask about the new part.

Audi customer service can also ask the question for you and pass on the reply to you.

Remind me though - does your rattle noise come from one of the exhaust flaps?


----------



## Alex_S

brittan said:


> Alex_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to hear that you got it resolved. Unfortunately Audi UK wont authorise any work on mine despite me sharing yours and Brittans examples.
> 
> 
> 
> There was a period when dealers were blocked from doing any repairs/replacements for the RS exhaust noise. My replacements were before that but powerplay's was after, hence his comment about a different part number for the rear half of the exhaust system.
> 
> I would not be surprised if Audi UK were behind with the news. Us customers cannot speak directly to the technical people at Milton Keynes but your dealer can raise a DISS report to ask about the new part.
> 
> Audi customer service can also ask the question for you and pass on the reply to you.
> 
> Remind me though - does your rattle noise come from one of the exhaust flaps?
Click to expand...

Audi UK have told me that Audi Germany will not authorise any work until my dealer has another car in to perform a direct sound comparison. They recently had one in with the sports exhaust so that could not be used. Also what if one arrived with the standard exhaust and the same problem, 2 wrongs dont make a right??!!

Unfortunately no other dealers within a 50 mile radius have a suitable car in for comparison either, and they wont pay transportation costs to take it down to yours or Powerplay's dealer down at Eastbourne so im stuck.


----------



## Alex_S

brittan said:


> Alex_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to hear that you got it resolved. Unfortunately Audi UK wont authorise any work on mine despite me sharing yours and Brittans examples.
> 
> 
> 
> There was a period when dealers were blocked from doing any repairs/replacements for the RS exhaust noise. My replacements were before that but powerplay's was after, hence his comment about a different part number for the rear half of the exhaust system.
> 
> I would not be surprised if Audi UK were behind with the news. Us customers cannot speak directly to the technical people at Milton Keynes but your dealer can raise a DISS report to ask about the new part.
> 
> Audi customer service can also ask the question for you and pass on the reply to you.
> 
> Remind me though - does your rattle noise come from one of the exhaust flaps?
Click to expand...

And the rattle is coming from the left exhaust flap


----------



## Alex_S

powerplay said:


> Alex_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Update - rattle is... gone!
> 
> New exhaust fitted today, the complete rear section and mid-pipe, including shiny new exhaust tips. The old ones were a bit pitted and marked so that's a bonus :lol:
> 
> Some pics:
> View attachment 5
> 
> View attachment 4
> 
> View attachment 3
> 
> View attachment 2
> 
> View attachment 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to hear that you got it resolved. Unfortunately Audi UK wont authorise any work on mine despite me sharing yours and Brittans examples.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sounds a bit bizarre
> 
> I don't know where in the country you are so might be a trip but why not pop in to Eastbourne Audi, they diagnosed mine with no issues and arranged the replacement.
> 
> They'd have to be able to justify why one car should qualify for it but another wouldn't? :?
Click to expand...

Very bizarre, they are basically saying that my fault may not necessarily be related yours and Brittan's so they cannot use yours as examples.


----------



## brittan

Alex_S said:


> And the rattle is coming from the left exhaust flap


That is the same fault as the factory fitted exhaust on mine.

The dealer did a video and the noise was easily demonstrated to come from the flap: the technician just put his finger on the flap spindle and the noise stopped; remove finger and the noise re-started.


----------



## Alex_S

brittan said:


> Alex_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the rattle is coming from the left exhaust flap
> 
> 
> 
> That is the same fault as the factory fitted exhaust on mine.
> 
> The dealer did a video and the noise was easily demonstrated to come from the flap: the technician just put his finger on the flap spindle and the noise stopped; remove finger and the noise re-started.
Click to expand...

Will have to check this myself. is the spindle easy to locate?


----------



## brittan

Alex_S said:


> Will have to check this myself. is the spindle easy to locate?


Yes; you will see the spindle bush just in front of the exhaust chrome trim on the underside of the pipe. The end of the spindle is visible in the bush.


----------



## Alex_S

brittan said:


> Alex_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will have to check this myself. is the spindle easy to locate?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes; you will see the spindle bush just in front of the exhaust chrome trim on the underside of the pipe. The end of the spindle is visible in the bush.
Click to expand...

Thanks Brian, I will check later this afternoon and if the case i will be going straight to Audi to show them.


----------



## Alex_S

brittan said:


> Alex_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will have to check this myself. is the spindle easy to locate?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes; you will see the spindle bush just in front of the exhaust chrome trim on the underside of the pipe. The end of the spindle is visible in the bush.
Click to expand...

Found it, and yes that is the problem!


----------



## brittan

Alex_S said:


> Found it, and yes that is the problem!


Hopefully no argument from your dealer now. It should not rattle. Poor investigation by the dealer.


----------



## bainsyboy

Any pictures of what we are looking for.. Or is it that obvious to see when under the car?


----------



## powerplay

That's exactly what I demonstrated to the service chap when I first took mine in, pointed to the spindle and told them if you press there it stops rattling.

They also confirmed they'd done this as an independent test anyway.


----------



## powerplay

bainsyboy said:


> Any pictures of what we are looking for.. Or is it that obvious to see when under the car?


----------



## bainsyboy

Cheers powerplay... I will have a look when I'm off of nights. Mine makes the noise when starting up but then subsides. Although can see this being a problem for most as the cars get older.


----------



## JulesB

Alex_S said:


> brittan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alex_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will have to check this myself. is the spindle easy to locate?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes; you will see the spindle bush just in front of the exhaust chrome trim on the underside of the pipe. The end of the spindle is visible in the bush.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Found it, and yes that is the problem!
Click to expand...

Hi, just checking on whether those of you who had the exhaust rattle at cold start and that continues to rattle after warm up at up to 2.5rpm in comfort mode have had any joy with Audi (or their local dealer) in getting the exhaust replaced?

Still no joy for my car, still pending as there's "No known fix" to the issue in spite of at least a couple of owners having their exhausts replaced with positive results.

Any updates appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## brittan

I *think* the exhaust flap rattle may be returning on my car. The exhaust replacements were early this year and therefore before any fix or updated part was available.

A dealer, not in my home city, checked for me yesterday for any updates on a new exhaust part and the reply from Audi UK technical was still to postpone repairs.

That statement is at odds with powerplay's mention of a different part number for the exhaust back box assembly.
Additionally, the first batch of customer orders has recently been delivered to the US and some UK orders will be going into build either this month and/or next month. You'd reasonably expect a fix to have been sorted out by now. :?


----------



## JulesB

Brittan

Sorry to hear your rattle may be making a come back 

After badgering customer service over the last month or so I've just had a call from my Audi dealer and my cars booked in on 18/10 to have this issue looked at (again).

Hopefully by that time maybe things will have moved on a bit and a replacement back box will be forthcoming.

I'll let you know how things progress.


----------



## Alex_S

So I eventually had my exhaust replaced under warranty (standard not sports exhaust). Unfortunately the replacement exhaust has exactly the same rattle at start up and when driving at around 2k rpm.

Ive been told that there is nothing else that can be done at this time as the replacement exhaust must have the same fault with the flap spindle.


----------



## brittan

JulesB said:


> Brittan
> 
> Sorry to hear your rattle may be making a come back
> 
> After badgering customer service over the last month or so I've just had a call from my Audi dealer and my cars booked in on 18/10 to have this issue looked at (again).
> 
> Hopefully by that time maybe things will have moved on a bit and a replacement back box will be forthcoming.
> 
> I'll let you know how things progress.


Yes, it would be interesting to hear what your dealer says.


----------



## brittan

Alex_S said:


> So I eventually had my exhaust replaced under warranty (standard not sports exhaust). Unfortunately the replacement exhaust has exactly the same rattle at start up and when driving at around 2k rpm.
> 
> Ive been told that there is nothing else that can be done at this time as the replacement exhaust must have the same fault with the flap spindle.


The start up rattle from the turbo/cat area is normal and meant to happen: but should last only 30 seconds or so.

I assume that this replacement was recent and so that's at odds with what I posted yesterday where the dealer quoted Audi UK Technical as saying 'postpone repairs'.

If the new part has the same part number as the original exhaust then it's reasonable for the dealer to say that they can do no more at the moment. However, by changing the exhaust your dealer has clearly accepted that there is an issue.

My view is that your dealer should now take this problem forward by raising a DIST report, which is car specific, and goes to Audi UK technical for reply on what action is next. They should give details of the problem and ask what remedy there is or will be. If there's no current fix your dealer should ask for a date when there will be one.


----------



## Alex_S

brittan said:


> Alex_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I eventually had my exhaust replaced under warranty (standard not sports exhaust). Unfortunately the replacement exhaust has exactly the same rattle at start up and when driving at around 2k rpm.
> 
> Ive been told that there is nothing else that can be done at this time as the replacement exhaust must have the same fault with the flap spindle.
> 
> 
> 
> The start up rattle from the turbo/cat area is normal and meant to happen: but should last only 30 seconds or so.
> 
> I assume that this replacement was recent and so that's at odds with what I posted yesterday where the dealer quoted Audi UK Technical as saying 'postpone repairs'.
> 
> If the new part has the same part number as the original exhaust then it's reasonable for the dealer to say that they can do no more at the moment. However, by changing the exhaust your dealer has clearly accepted that there is an issue.
> 
> My view is that your dealer should now take this problem forward by raising a DIST report, which is car specific, and goes to Audi UK technical for reply on what action is next. They should give details of the problem and ask what remedy there is or will be. If there's no current fix your dealer should ask for a date when there will be one.
Click to expand...

Yes Brian, it was replaced 3 weeks ago. Unfortunately I wish I had left the original one on which only rattled at 2k rpm. Now that ive covered a few hundred miles with the replacement exhaust, it rattles worse than before! It's now noticable from idle all the way to 2.5k rpm and can only be described as if you put some bolts inside a saucepan, popped the lid on and shook them about!

Again the source of the noise is from the flap spindle, which immediately stops when pressed with your finger.

You said that your rattle is starting to show itself again?

I have a case open with Audi UK but they say that now ive had a replacement exhaust there is nothing else that they can do. Not sure where I go from here?!


----------



## ROBH49

I get the rattle on start up for around 30/40 seconds then is disappears, can`t say I`ve noticed any sort of rattle at around 3000RMP I may be wrong but then again I`m a little def :lol: :lol: .

This maybe down to the fact that I listen to AC/DC or Y&T on the B&O quite loud :wink: or some other type of classic rock or heavy metal band, isn`t this what the B&O is for. :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## brittan

Alex_S said:


> Again the source of the noise is from the flap spindle, which immediately stops when pressed with your finger.
> 
> I have a case open with Audi UK but they say that now ive had a replacement exhaust there is nothing else that they can do. Not sure where I go from here?!


Maybe Audi are just recycling the rattly exhausts. You may now have one of my previous exhausts! Although it wasn't as bad as your description. Replacing a faulty part with one that is even more faulty cannot be right.

Where to go now? Audi CEO or Brand Manager. Talk to dealer about rejecting the car since they cannot fix the fault. Audi on Facebook or Twitter. Local Trading Standards office. Citizens Advice web site or office etc etc.


----------



## sr20det

Sorry offtopic but does anybody know if there is a way to start the car without it popping and banging


----------



## brittan

200fsx said:


> Sorry offtopic but does anybody know if there is a way to start the car without it popping and banging


Ah, you mean the boy racer, look at me, hot start throttle blip?

No, as far as I know there's no way to get rid of that yet. Maybe one of the tuners like Revo, APR, MRC etc could do it but it's not something I'd expect them to look at in the normal course of their business.

It is something I plan to ask the dealer to delete at the car's first service. I'm sure they will say they can't do it.


----------



## sr20det

brittan said:


> 200fsx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry offtopic but does anybody know if there is a way to start the car without it popping and banging
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, you mean the boy racer, look at me, hot start throttle blip?
> 
> No, as far as I know there's no way to get rid of that yet. Maybe one of the tuners like Revo, APR, MRC etc could do it but it's not something I'd expect them to look at in the normal course of their business.
> 
> It is something I plan to ask the dealer to delete at the car's first service. I'm sure they will say they can't do it.
Click to expand...

Yes Brittan, the hot start throttle blip. Thought the granny filling up next to me at the petrol station was going to have a heart attack when I started the car up.

It doesn't do it on the autostart so surely the dealers can switch it off


----------



## powerplay

Erm... Rattling  :roll:


----------



## brittan

powerplay said:


> Erm... Rattling  :roll:


Are you copying me?


----------



## powerplay

brittan said:


> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Erm... Rattling  :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you copying me?
Click to expand...

Not one to buck the trend 

Will be paying Audi another visit then I think, they've already acknowledged it is not acceptable by changing it once, but at the moment the official response from Germany seems to be um, we know but tough...

Just had the car at local bodyshop last week for the inside of exhaust tips to be repainted as the paint on the replacement exhaust was peeling (quality product) - paid for by my local dealer, so they ain't gonna like that it ultimately will be replaced again :roll: :lol:


----------



## brittan

powerplay said:


> Will be paying Audi another visit then I think, they've already acknowledged it is not acceptable by changing it once, but at the moment the official response from Germany seems to be um, we know but tough...


That sort of ties up with what I posted a page or so back where the dealer checked with Audi UK and their response is still to postpone repairs.

There's been some cars delivered in the US in recent weeks so it will be interesting to see if any of them post similar problems on the FB group.


----------



## JulesB

Had my roadster in at Southend Audi in the week re exhaust rattle and low speed brake squeal, still the same message from Audi to postpone repairs so dealer wont replace as any unauthorised works is at their cost. Brake squeal is evidently "typical of the RS" and whilst counterweights on calipers has reduced noise it hasn't completely got rid of it.

Told me to go back to Audi Customer Service and push them further to see what happens :roll:


----------



## powerplay

Interesting to learn that the the cold start rattle/fast ticking from the front can now be eliminated with the software tweaking - MRC have done it apparently


----------



## brittan

powerplay said:


> Interesting to learn that the the cold start rattle/fast ticking from the front can now be eliminated with the software tweaking - MRC have done it apparently


Yes, I read that too. I'm not sure of the value of that, apart from eliminating the irritating noise. 

I wonder if MRC could also map out the hot start look-at-me throttle blip.  I would expect so.


----------



## Alex_S

How are you guys getting on with your exhausts since being replaced? Ive now had 3 replacements, the last one being upgraded to the sports exhaust (which actually sounds nowhere near as good as the standard exhaust - surprisingly?!), but Ive still got rattling from the left pipe when exhaust is in standard mode up 2k rpm, and also in sports mode upto 1.5rpm before the flap opens. Audi tell me that they have done all they can so ive no short term solution in resolving this.


----------



## powerplay

Mine seems to be starting to rattle, just intermittently. Not as bad as before but I have no doubt it will get there gradually over time.

Seems like all the exhausts are plagued with the same issue, and that makes sense as the differences berween standard and sports is the backbox, the pipes/valves are no doubt all shared components so the valve spindles are going to be the same regardless.

Interesting you think standard is better than sports - how does it differ to your previous standard exhaust - tone, volume?


----------



## Alex_S

powerplay said:


> Mine seems to be starting to rattle, just intermittently. Not as bad as before but I have no doubt it will get there gradually over time.
> 
> Seems like all the exhausts are plagued with the same issue, and that makes sense as the differences berween standard and sports is the backbox, the pipes/valves are no doubt all shared components so the valve spindles are going to be the same regardless.
> 
> Interesting you think standard is better than sports - how does it differ to your previous standard exhaust - tone, volume?


Mine is the same part number as yours, after asking you a few weeks ago. Was perfect initially but starting to rattle as its loosened up.

The sports exhaust is more 'gurgly' at lower revs which I do like, whilst the standard exhaust was a smoother higher toned sound closer to that of the R8 V10. On downshifts at higher revs there was a lot more crackling and popping, which there doesn't seem to be with the sports exhaust which is odd because the sports exhaust does so when you rev it whilst stationary. Is yours the same? 
Overall the sports exhaust is no louder, just a different tone.


----------



## powerplay

Alex_S said:


> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mine seems to be starting to rattle, just intermittently. Not as bad as before but I have no doubt it will get there gradually over time.
> 
> Seems like all the exhausts are plagued with the same issue, and that makes sense as the differences berween standard and sports is the backbox, the pipes/valves are no doubt all shared components so the valve spindles are going to be the same regardless.
> 
> Interesting you think standard is better than sports - how does it differ to your previous standard exhaust - tone, volume?
> 
> 
> 
> Mine is the same part number as yours, after asking you a few weeks ago. Was perfect initially but starting to rattle as its loosened up.
> 
> The sports exhaust is more 'gurgly' at lower revs which I do like, whilst the standard exhaust was a smoother higher toned sound closer to that of the R8 V10. On downshifts at higher revs there was a lot more crackling and popping, which there doesn't seem to be with the sports exhaust which is odd because the sports exhaust does so when you rev it whilst stationary. Is yours the same?
> Overall the sports exhaust is no louder, just a different tone.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how the sports exhaust can have any effect on the crackling/popping - this is implemented on the engine-side of things.

Just a thought - there's been a lot of comments lately on a recent Audi software update that actually does reduce the pops and crackles. By chance did your dealer "update" your car when it was last in and having the new exhaust fitted?


----------



## Alex_S

powerplay said:


> Alex_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mine seems to be starting to rattle, just intermittently. Not as bad as before but I have no doubt it will get there gradually over time.
> 
> Seems like all the exhausts are plagued with the same issue, and that makes sense as the differences berween standard and sports is the backbox, the pipes/valves are no doubt all shared components so the valve spindles are going to be the same regardless.
> 
> Interesting you think standard is better than sports - how does it differ to your previous standard exhaust - tone, volume?
> 
> 
> 
> Mine is the same part number as yours, after asking you a few weeks ago. Was perfect initially but starting to rattle as its loosened up.
> 
> The sports exhaust is more 'gurgly' at lower revs which I do like, whilst the standard exhaust was a smoother higher toned sound closer to that of the R8 V10. On downshifts at higher revs there was a lot more crackling and popping, which there doesn't seem to be with the sports exhaust which is odd because the sports exhaust does so when you rev it whilst stationary. Is yours the same?
> Overall the sports exhaust is no louder, just a different tone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not sure how the sports exhaust can have any effect on the crackling/popping - this is implemented on the engine-side of things.
> 
> Just a thought - there's been a lot of comments lately on a recent Audi software update that actually does reduce the pops and crackles. By chance did your dealer "update" your car when it was last in and having the new exhaust fitted?
Click to expand...

That will be it then, mine had the software update! Do you know if the update made any other changes as the upshifts in manual seem to be a little quicker under light acceleration.


----------



## powerplay

Alex_S said:


> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alex_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mine is the same part number as yours, after asking you a few weeks ago. Was perfect initially but starting to rattle as its loosened up.
> 
> The sports exhaust is more 'gurgly' at lower revs which I do like, whilst the standard exhaust was a smoother higher toned sound closer to that of the R8 V10. On downshifts at higher revs there was a lot more crackling and popping, which there doesn't seem to be with the sports exhaust which is odd because the sports exhaust does so when you rev it whilst stationary. Is yours the same?
> Overall the sports exhaust is no louder, just a different tone.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how the sports exhaust can have any effect on the crackling/popping - this is implemented on the engine-side of things.
> 
> Just a thought - there's been a lot of comments lately on a recent Audi software update that actually does reduce the pops and crackles. By chance did your dealer "update" your car when it was last in and having the new exhaust fitted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That will be it then, mine had the software update! Do you know if the update made any other changes as the upshifts in manual seem to be a little quicker under light acceleration.
Click to expand...

I've only seen the crackle and pops mentioned, it's good to know the upshifts are improved!


----------



## Alex_S

I'm not sure how the sports exhaust can have any effect on the crackling/popping - this is implemented on the engine-side of things.

Just a thought - there's been a lot of comments lately on a recent Audi software update that actually does reduce the pops and crackles. By chance did your dealer "update" your car when it was last in and having the new exhaust fitted?[/quote]

That will be it then, mine had the software update! Do you know if the update made any other changes as the upshifts in manual seem to be a little quicker under light acceleration.[/quote]

I've only seen the crackle and pops mentioned, it's good to know the upshifts are improved![/quote]

Its only marginal and not like the R8 which slams the gear changes regardless of throttle. Ive also noticed that Miltek have now released secondary cat bypass pipes which im keen to get fitted but im hesitating at the moment whilst we have the ongoing exhaust rattle issue as Audi will no doubt refuse any further replacement if i fit them.


----------



## powerplay

Alex_S said:


> I'm not sure how the sports exhaust can have any effect on the crackling/popping - this is implemented on the engine-side of things.
> 
> Just a thought - there's been a lot of comments lately on a recent Audi software update that actually does reduce the pops and crackles. By chance did your dealer "update" your car when it was last in and having the new exhaust fitted?
> 
> That will be it then, mine had the software update! Do you know if the update made any other changes as the upshifts in manual seem to be a little quicker under light acceleration.
> 
> I've only seen the crackle and pops mentioned, it's good to know the upshifts are improved!
> 
> Its only marginal and not like the R8 which slams the gear changes regardless of throttle. Ive also noticed that Miltek have now released secondary cat bypass pipes which im keen to get fitted but im hesitating at the moment whilst we have the ongoing exhaust rattle issue as Audi will no doubt refuse any further replacement if i fit them.


I didn't think there were secondary cats  I thought they were only on the US version for some reason. I've actually not even looked  Could have sworn I saw a cgi animation a while back that showed the drivetrain and didn't notice any seconday cats?


----------



## Alex_S

powerplay said:


> Alex_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how the sports exhaust can have any effect on the crackling/popping - this is implemented on the engine-side of things.
> 
> Just a thought - there's been a lot of comments lately on a recent Audi software update that actually does reduce the pops and crackles. By chance did your dealer "update" your car when it was last in and having the new exhaust fitted?
> 
> That will be it then, mine had the software update! Do you know if the update made any other changes as the upshifts in manual seem to be a little quicker under light acceleration.
> 
> I've only seen the crackle and pops mentioned, it's good to know the upshifts are improved!
> 
> Its only marginal and not like the R8 which slams the gear changes regardless of throttle. Ive also noticed that Miltek have now released secondary cat bypass pipes which im keen to get fitted but im hesitating at the moment whilst we have the ongoing exhaust rattle issue as Audi will no doubt refuse any further replacement if i fit them.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't think there were secondary cats  I thought they were only on the US version for some reason. I've actually not even looked  Could have sworn I saw a cgi animation a while back that showed the drivetrain and didn't notice any seconday cats?
Click to expand...

Ive not looked either but ive noticed a few UK tuners selling these on eBay. I will get under the car now to have a peek!


----------



## brittan

powerplay said:


> I didn't think there were secondary cats  I thought they were only on the US version for some reason. I've actually not even looked  Could have sworn I saw a cgi animation a while back that showed the drivetrain and didn't notice any seconday cats?


I've had a look and there's nothing that looks like the secondary cats as on the Mk2. I too thought they were only on the US version.


----------



## Alex_S

brittan said:


> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't think there were secondary cats  I thought they were only on the US version for some reason. I've actually not even looked  Could have sworn I saw a cgi animation a while back that showed the drivetrain and didn't notice any seconday cats?
> 
> 
> 
> I've had a look and there's nothing that looks like the secondary cats as on the Mk2. I too thought they were only on the US version.
Click to expand...

AMD state this on their ad:- "IF YOUR VEHICLE IS A 2017 MODEL ONWARDS PLEASE CHECK YOUR VEHICLE HAS SECONDARY CATS FITTED BEFORE PURCHASING.

SOME 2017 ONWARDS MODELS ARE FITTED WITH SECONDARY CAT BYPASS PIPES FROM THE FACTORY"

Ive just had a peek under my car and it definitely looks like I have secondary cats!


----------



## brittan

Alex_S said:


> Ive just had a peek under my car and it definitely looks like I have secondary cats!


That's interesting. I wonder why the change was made?

Anyway, it does mean that cat delete pipes are available as OEM parts from Audi. 

It's certainly worth comparing the cost between Audi and an after market supplier. Sometimes, just sometimes Audi parts are cheaper than you might expect.


----------



## brittan

brittan said:


> Anyway, it does mean that cat delete pipes are available as OEM parts from Audi.


Left plain pipe: 8S0 254 503A
Left with cat: 8S0 254 503X

Right plain pipe: 8S0 254 502A
Right with cat: 8S0 254 502X

The plain pipes go with production codes 7GH and 7MM
7GH = Emission standard EU4 without EOBD without hardware modification
7MM = Emission standard EU6 plus

The pipes with the secondary cats go with production code 7MU
7MU - Emission standard LEV 3/Tier 3 125


----------



## powerplay

Interesting. Just had a look under mine and it appears to be identical to how it's pictured in this vid






I'm no techie but it looks like there are two primary cats, instead of a single one lke the old RS had.

Also just checked the sticker on the warranty card - I have 7MM   

What does "without EOBD without hardware modification" refer to?


----------



## brittan

I'm not sure where you see two primary cats.










The primary cat is the big can on the back of the turbo. Two pipes emerge from it with two flexi sections and then the 3 bolt flanges which lead to the secondary cat pipes or plain pipes, depending on market.


----------



## powerplay

brittan said:


> I'm not sure where you see two primary cats.
> 
> 
> 
> The primary cat is the big can on the back of the turbo. Two pipes emerge from it with two flexi sections and then the 3 bolt flanges which lead to the secondary cat pipes or plain pipes, depending on market.


Ah yes my bad - thought the flexi things were cats. Doh - said I wasn't techie when it comes to exhausts :lol:

I see the main cat now - looks bigger and a different orientation to how it was on the mk2, which had a single downpipe before it split, instead of 2 pipes directly from the cat.

Where I've seen tuners saying they've replaced the downpipe - what exactly are they referring to in this diagram?


----------



## brittan

powerplay said:


> I see the main cat now - looks bigger and a different orientation to how it was on the mk2, which had a single downpipe before it split, instead of 2 pipes directly from the cat.


Yes, very different to the Mk2 arrangement.

The downpipe would be the first part of the system immediately after the turbo: the cat and the first double pipe section including the flexis up to the 3 bolt flanges.
The cat may be a sport one and if the downpipe is catless I would expect the can to be re-modled accordingly. Not sure on the last point as I haven't seen any replacement exhausts yet.


----------



## Alex_S

powerplay said:


> Interesting. Just had a look under mine and it appears to be identical to how it's pictured in this vid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm no techie but it looks like there are two primary cats, instead of a single one lke the old RS had.
> 
> Also just checked the sticker on the warranty card - I have 7MM
> 
> What does "without EOBD without hardware modification" refer to?


Where would I find this sticker / warranty card confirming the model type?


----------



## Alex_S

brittan said:


> brittan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, it does mean that cat delete pipes are available as OEM parts from Audi.
> 
> 
> 
> Left plain pipe: 8S0 254 503A
> Left with cat: 8S0 254 503X
> 
> Right plain pipe: 8S0 254 502A
> Right with cat: 8S0 254 502X
> 
> The plain pipes go with production codes 7GH and 7MM
> 7GH = Emission standard EU4 without EOBD without hardware modification
> 7MM = Emission standard EU6 plus
> 
> The pipes with the secondary cats go with production code 7MU
> 7MU - Emission standard LEV 3/Tier 3 125
Click to expand...

Very interesting Brian, I wonder why 4 different variations were made?

Im assuming that fueling / emissions will be setup different on the models without secondary cats, and guessing that Audi would not supply the plain pipes unless I had some kind of software remap to comply with emissions?

Which model is yours then? Im assuming Stu's 7MM car will sound a little different than mine which appears to have secondary cats, although I would still like to confirm which model mine is.


----------



## brittan

powerplay said:


> Also just checked the sticker on the warranty card - I have 7MM
> 
> What does "without EOBD without hardware modification" refer to?


I'm not sure on that. Relative to cars, EOBD stands for European on-board Diagnostics - OBD port.

My car is definitely with OBD, as should be all cars made since 2001: so that's confusing too.


----------



## brittan

Alex_S said:


> Very interesting Brian, I wonder why 4 different variations were made?
> 
> Im assuming that fueling / emissions will be setup different on the models without secondary cats, and guessing that Audi would not supply the plain pipes unless I had some kind of software remap to comply with emissions?
> 
> Which model is yours then? Im assuming Stu's 7MM car will sound a little different than mine which appears to have secondary cats, although I would still like to confirm which model mine is.


Two pipes and 2 variations of each pipe.

The info from the parts list is a bit confusing. The first two codes (7GH and 7MM) refer to EU emissions standards while 7MU refers to a USA emissions standard.

If yours has secondary cats they will be roughly level with the front seats. There should be two stickers with all the build codes; one on the boot floor (on the metal) and one in the service book or handbook.


----------



## powerplay

Alex_S said:


> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. Just had a look under mine and it appears to be identical to how it's pictured in this vid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm no techie but it looks like there are two primary cats, instead of a single one lke the old RS had.
> 
> Also just checked the sticker on the warranty card - I have 7MM
> 
> What does "without EOBD without hardware modification" refer to?
> 
> 
> 
> Where would I find this sticker / warranty card confirming the model type?
Click to expand...

Should be among your handbook gumph, on the inside cover of the warranty card, or as Brian also mentioned, in the boot pan. The warranty card is easier to check tho :lol:


----------



## powerplay

powerplay said:


> Alex_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how the sports exhaust can have any effect on the crackling/popping - this is implemented on the engine-side of things.
> 
> Just a thought - there's been a lot of comments lately on a recent Audi software update that actually does reduce the pops and crackles. By chance did your dealer "update" your car when it was last in and having the new exhaust fitted?
> 
> 
> 
> That will be it then, mine had the software update! Do you know if the update made any other changes as the upshifts in manual seem to be a little quicker under light acceleration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've only seen the crackle and pops mentioned, it's good to know the upshifts are improved!
Click to expand...

Popped in to my local dealer today and have booked my car in for tomorrow to get the updated software.

I figure anything that improves the upshifts in manual is worth having, even if it means I lose some popping and banging. Can always have that put back by somewhere like MRC I should think.

Thought it best to get the update done asap before I get it tuned too :lol:

On their system it mentioned the software update specifically dealt with engine for cold-climate starting issues and transmission on "some affected vehicles between dates blah". Didn't mention anything about removing dynamic mode noises but I guess that's just a side-effect. Personally, as long as performance is unaffected I'm not fussed.


----------



## brittan

powerplay said:


> Popped in to my local dealer today and have booked my car in for tomorrow to get the updated software.


Your comments on the results of the update would be interesting.


----------



## powerplay

brittan said:


> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Popped in to my local dealer today and have booked my car in for tomorrow to get the updated software.
> 
> 
> 
> Your comments on the results of the update would be interesting.
Click to expand...

All I can say is MEH.

Waste of time. Only driven 2 miles in traffic so no idea if I still have dynamic mode pops. Manual shifting however is unchanged, in fact I changed from 3rd to 4th during light acceleration and could probably have made a strong cuppa in between the time I clicked the paddle and got the gear.

At least it's done, now I can book in with MRC.


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## brittan

powerplay said:


> All I can say is MEH.


Ah; not exactly a resounding recommendation then.


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## powerplay

brittan said:


> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> 
> All I can say is MEH.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah; not exactly a resounding recommendation then.
Click to expand...

No, there is no benefit. The only plus from my persepective is there is now no chance Audi will apply it the next time my car is in for a service and wipe my MRC map :lol:


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## brittan

powerplay said:


> No, there is no benefit. The only plus from my persepective is there is now no chance Audi will apply it the next time my car is in for a service and wipe my MRC map :lol:


You might get a TD1 flag against the car though; I expect you know that.


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## powerplay

Yeah I know that's a possiblity.

When I booked the car in for just the software update the first question from service chap was have I had the car chipped or mapped as it will be overwritten... so it's not like they don't expect it


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## Alex_S

powerplay said:


> Yeah I know that's a possiblity.
> 
> When I booked the car in for just the software update the first question from service chap was have I had the car chipped or mapped as it will be overwritten... so it's not like they don't expect it


Im sorry to hear that your manual gear shifts are painfully slow, and feel somewhat responsible for wasting your time following my comments that I thought mine had improved slightly.

From what you're saying though, is it worth getting Audi to have a look at it before you get the car mapped as my upshifts under very light acceleration are no longer than a second really when in dynamic mode, whereas you're 'making cups of tea' in between yours.


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## powerplay

Alex_S said:


> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I know that's a possiblity.
> 
> When I booked the car in for just the software update the first question from service chap was have I had the car chipped or mapped as it will be overwritten... so it's not like they don't expect it
> 
> 
> 
> Im sorry to hear that your manual gear shifts are painfully slow, and feel somewhat responsible for wasting your time following my comments that I thought mine had improved slightly.
> 
> From what you're saying though, is it worth getting Audi to have a look at it before you get the car mapped as my upshifts under very light acceleration are no longer than a second really when in dynamic mode, whereas you're 'making cups of tea' in between yours.
Click to expand...

But do you notice in manual when you upshift, if you give enough throttle to request about 15%+ power (looking at the power/torque display), it will go from being delayed to instant?

I just want it to be instant all the time :?


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## Alex_S

powerplay said:


> Alex_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I know that's a possiblity.
> 
> When I booked the car in for just the software update the first question from service chap was have I had the car chipped or mapped as it will be overwritten... so it's not like they don't expect it
> 
> 
> 
> Im sorry to hear that your manual gear shifts are painfully slow, and feel somewhat responsible for wasting your time following my comments that I thought mine had improved slightly.
> 
> From what you're saying though, is it worth getting Audi to have a look at it before you get the car mapped as my upshifts under very light acceleration are no longer than a second really when in dynamic mode, whereas you're 'making cups of tea' in between yours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But do you notice in manual when you upshift, if you give enough throttle to request about 15%+ power (looking at the power/torque display), it will go from being delayed to instant?
> 
> I just want it to be instant all the time :?
Click to expand...

Yes that sounds about the same, instant from about 15%. As frustrating that it is I am guessing that there is a deliberate delay so that the gear change remains smooth and does not clunk into place at low throttle. Tbh my biggest issue with regards to a delay is when you're not in manual but in Sports mode and kick down to quickly accelerate................there's a huge delay followed by strange farts from the exhaust before it finally takes off! I would also like some ferocity from the upshifts when in dynamic mode, ours is just too smooth. 
If you ever get the chance to drive a new R8 you will see how good the S-tronic box in them really is! I recently went on an Audi driving experience day at Croft circuit and spent a lot of time in the R8 V10 Plus which was amazing! Unfortunately the drive home afterwards was somewhat underwhelming as you really notice how Audi really 'tame' down the other RS models. I believe its the same story for the new RS5.


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## psglas

It looks like there may be a milltek exhaust available soon.


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## NardoTtrs

Mine suffers from this tiny rattle on start up and when in low rpm. Booked car into Audi dealer who says Audi is aware of this issue .......but nothing they can do as of now.


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## JulesB

NardoTtrs said:


> Mine suffers from this tiny rattle on start up and when in low rpm. Booked car into Audi dealer who says Audi is aware of this issue .......but nothing they can do as of now.


Hi, how old is your car? I think those of us who have discussed the issue on here have cars that were registered towards the end of 2016, would be interesting if yours was one of the newer 2017 ones.


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## NardoTtrs

JulesB said:


> NardoTtrs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mine suffers from this tiny rattle on start up and when in low rpm. Booked car into Audi dealer who says Audi is aware of this issue .......but nothing they can do as of now.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, how old is your car? I think those of us who have discussed the issue on here have cars that were registered towards the end of 2016, would be interesting if yours was one of the newer 2017 ones.
Click to expand...

December 2016...


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## powerplay

Mine was also December 2016, I had a brand new exhaust shipped and fitted from Germany a few months ago, it is now starting to develop the same rattle, so I think it's gonna be a LOT of cars affected...


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## brittan

I had the exhaust replaced twice early this year. The car was serviced last week and the rattle on the third exhaust noted. The word from Audi is still to postpone repairs.


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## brittan

NardoTtrs said:


> Mine suffers from this tiny rattle on start up and when in low rpm. Booked car into Audi dealer who says Audi is aware of this issue .......but nothing they can do as of now.


Is this on cold start and does it last 30 seconds? If so, that is normal and a consequence of the cat quick(er) warm up strategy. See some of my previous posts in this thread on this.

If the rattle happens other than in that 30 seconds it will be the exhaust tail pipe flap; more than likely the LH one.


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## Alex_S

brittan said:


> I had the exhaust replaced twice early this year. The car was serviced last week and the rattle on the third exhaust noted. The word from Audi is still to postpone repairs.


I am also on my third exhaust, the current one being an upgrade from the standard to sports exhaust. But it appears that both are affected. I have an open case still with Audi UK but they have no fix for this currently. As this is a manufacturing fault I also imagine that most cars will be affected. If this has been resolved on the new cars then I would expect us to be offered a modified exhaust at some point.


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## psglas

My car was in the local dealer this week for another new exhaust. I had it replaced in June but have had constant flap rattle and buzzing ever since. Eventually the local service manager called it back in to fit a modified exhaust that was release at end of November. Time will tell if it's fixed the issue for good but there's certainly no rattle for now.


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## powerplay

That's interesting to know. My replacement has been intermittently starting to rattle on startup so might pay dealer a visit in the new year and see what's what!


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## brittan

Yes, very interesting. My car was in for its service in mid November and the flap rattle on the third exhaust system noted. After checking the dealer confirmed at the time that Audi's policy was still, "postpone repair".


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## brittan

I've had the updated exhaust system (rear half) fitted now. Third time lucky, it does seem to have cured the flap rattle problem.

I had a quick look under the car and the flap spindles are different. On the old exhausts you could see the end of the spindle on the underside. On the new exhaust there is just a flat disc visible which seems to be the 'head' of the spindle.

I also had the 24DK software update done and it has had a mild effect on the sound when changing down in M, no more Rice Krispies noise.

One of the items covered by the 24DK update says:
Optimization of the durability of the catalyst by adjusting the ignition interventions and cylinder deactivation when changing gear with double declutch throttle input in gear S or dynamic operation.

I suspect that's the part of the update that affects the exhaust noise.


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## powerplay

brittan said:


> I've had the updated exhaust system (rear half) fitted now. Third time lucky, it does seem to have cured the flap rattle problem.
> 
> I had a quick look under the car and the flap spindles are different. On the old exhausts you could see the end of the spindle on the underside. On the new exhaust there is just a flat disc visible which seems to be the 'head' of the spindle.
> 
> I also had the 24DK software update done and it has had a mild effect on the sound when changing down in M, no more Rice Krispies noise.
> 
> One of the items covered by the 24DK update says:
> Optimization of the durability of the catalyst by adjusting the ignition interventions and cylinder deactivation when changing gear with double declutch throttle input in gear S or dynamic operation.
> 
> I suspect that's the part of the update that affects the exhaust noise.


Some useful info there thanks.

So would I be correct in assuming their removal of the crackles is purely in the interest of prolonging the life of the cat?


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## brittan

powerplay said:


> So would I be correct in assuming their removal of the crackles is purely in the interest of prolonging the life of the cat?


That's the way I read it. I have no more explanation than those words though.


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## powerplay

brittan said:


> powerplay said:
> 
> 
> 
> So would I be correct in assuming their removal of the crackles is purely in the interest of prolonging the life of the cat?
> 
> 
> 
> That's the way I read it. I have no more explanation than those words though.
Click to expand...

Well seeing as Audi will not allow the firmware to go back a version I guess I'll have to ask MRC if they are able to revert it :? :lol:


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## ross_t_boss

They must have learned something from the VW scandal... you can sell a product to the consumer and then make it a bit less good via updates afterward.

Well at least when I get mine it'll not have a rattly exhaust I guess... but yet MRC can fix it I'm sure. I suspect they can help make sure the cat doesn't get prematurely worn out by it as well... decat pipe, keep it on a shelf and fit it once a year for MOT day :evil:


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## powerplay

Or just decat and don't worry coz your mate runs a garage :wink: :wink:


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## powerplay

Just wondering if there's anyone who knows or is able to find out the software version number of the original ECU in the 8S and the new version number from the recent exhaust-crackle-killing update?

I've been asked to find out by MRC in order they can determine the differences and be able to map back in the dynamic mode crackles.

Thanks if you can help!


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## Aoon_M

Stuart, we need someone who hasn't had the "24DK" software update applied to put up a screenshot of the advanced identification tab under "Engine" using VCDS.


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## powerplay

MRC have got the pops added to their stage1 map now.

Gonna get mine done soon


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## TondyRSuzuka

powerplay said:


> MRC have got the pops added to their stage1 map now.
> 
> Gonna get mine done soon


This is making me question my loyalty to APR... Do I step to the dark side and go with MRC this time round? Hmmm....

Whats the cost of the remap with them (stage 1 for now)


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## powerplay

I will find out soon.

I wanted APR really too but not a peep out of them for a couple of months about their RS3/TTRS map, I wonder if they blew the engine up :lol:


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## TondyRSuzuka

powerplay said:


> I will find out soon.
> 
> I wanted APR really too but not a peep out of them for a couple of months about their RS3/TTRS map, I wonder if they blew the engine up :lol:


Yeah ive done some asking around but Awesome in Manchester are being very quiet about it... Hmmm...

Maybe time to try something different? To be fair Ive heard good things about MRC, but APR does give me more of a warm fuzzy feeling of R&D and substantial volumes of tuning and kits that they do. MRC to me is just a bloke in a small unit with a rolling road and a laptop? Thats not going to help the Mrs feel good when mapping our £50k car!

Little bit concerned about dealers being on the ball now about maps, i.e. TD1 flags.


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## powerplay

I think the TD1 thing will happen regardless. Apparently they can flag you even from a removable tuning box.

I expect to be changing cars after 3 years though so if I want to get the best out of it gotta risk it I guess!


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## ross_t_boss

TondyRSuzuka said:


> Maybe time to try something different? To be fair Ive heard good things about MRC, but APR does give me more of a warm fuzzy feeling of R&D and substantial volumes of tuning and kits that they do. MRC to me is just a bloke in a small unit with a rolling road and a laptop? Thats not going to help the Mrs feel good when mapping our £50k car!


I'd hope that with a big name like APR if you did have a problem they might give you some assistance, so there may be security in that.

But also worth noting that Mihnea @ MRC has been tuning 5 Cylinder Audi's since early Motronic days in the 90s, and I'm aware of other very skilled individuals involved with their maps, so I'd have some confidence in the guy in the small unit! They have a very good rep over thousands of cars...

I have MRC invoice 0002 in my RS2 history folder, 2005 I think, they fixed it for the previous owner after being "tuned" by another big name. 70k and 13 years later no issues (except a jumped cambelt but thats my fault).

I'll be keeping mine long term so the question to me not if, but when I get it done. I'd like to be certain the engine is well bedded and I've got part way through warranty. After that, if it goes wrong, I expect to be on my own. I'd still expect cover on anything unrelated to the modification, its not a get of jail free card for them.


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## Aoon_M

TD1 will happen regardless of what map you end up going for in the end, you shouldn't be trying to cheat the dealer anyway imo. If I sent someone one of my products and they returned it to me, modified, broken.. you get where I'm going.

Only way to avoid TD1 is by buying another ECU.

I'm also stuck between APR and MRC. I will probably end up with both so I can run tests. 

I like APR's hardware, it is generally unmatched in this scene.


----------

