# Bang & Olufsen



## dshtt (Jun 13, 2002)

Thinking of buying a new hifi anyone got any coments on B&O gear? Any hep would be appreciated.


----------



## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

Pretty but pricey. May be better off going for a Linn Classik


----------



## SteveS (Oct 20, 2003)

Good kit, but expensive. A proportion of your money goes on the design, form and function. IMO you can get a better sound for the same money with less spent on design aesthetics than B&O do. That said the higher you go with Hi-Fi the more the law of diminishing returns applies.

Listen to it. Listen to a few others at a similar price and buy that which fits your ears and eyes best.

Oh, and enjoy the buying process, along with cars it's the only time I actively enjoy shopping


----------



## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Not being a fully qualified audiphile, my only help can be to suggest that you pop over to http://www.avforums.com


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

It's shite-sounding, overstyled and for non music lovers.

Avoid. :-/


----------



## SteveS (Oct 20, 2003)

> It's shite-sounding, overstyled and for non music lovers.
> 
> Avoid. Â :-/


Odd. That's exactly what I think about Bose home kit.


----------



## raven (May 7, 2002)

> Odd. That's exactly what I think about Bose home kit.


Bose / B&O - just lifestyle stuff IMO. Get down to your local Sevonoaks and tell them what you want to spend, and enjoy. 

If you are still set on a B&O system, go and listen to one (probably don't stock them at Sevonoaks as they tend to focus on quality kit ). Garyc is right on this one.


----------



## garvin (May 7, 2002)

> It's shite-sounding, overstyled and for non music lovers.
> 
> Avoid. Â :-/


OK Gary .......... now tell us what you really think ...... don't hold back this time ;D


----------



## SteveS (Oct 20, 2003)

> Bose / B&O - just lifestyle stuff IMO. Get down to your local Sevonoaks and tell them what you want to spend, and enjoy.
> 
> If you are still set on a B&O system, go and listen to one (probably don't stock them at Sevonoaks as they tend to focus on quality kit ). Garyc is right on this one.


Whilst I wouldn't consider either personally, last time I listened B&O were still better than Bose although as you say they are both lifestyle rather than audiophile.


----------



## raven (May 7, 2002)

> Whilst I wouldn't consider either personally, last time I listened B&O were still better than Bose although as you say they are both lifestyle rather than audiophile.


Yeah, you're right, B&O definitely better than Bose.


----------



## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

> It's shite-sounding, overstyled and for non music lovers.
> 
> Avoid. Â :-/


totally unjustified statment. Have you actually sat and listen to one?

Its better than bose and sounded great, ok its pricy but then so are porsche's , if you want a brand name then buy one if not get what eveyone else gets.

Why do poeple go for nike or Tommy etc.. more expensive ... each to their own, if you can afford it , like the design and sound go for it....

but you must test drive before you buy, that way you will know for sure.


----------



## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

the new Beolab 5 speakers (10k!) get good reviews.

How much do you have to spend - are you just looking for a lifestyle product or are you more interested in the sound quality.

B&O make very high quality products, but choose form over function.

A suggestion for styling + sound + good price would be Cyrus.

James.


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> totally unjustified statment. Have you actually sat and listen to one?


No I just made it up. :

I have a city-type mate who invested Â£20K in B&O AV kit, excluding screen.

My sister has the tall cylinder speaker towers and the 6 pack CD thingy that goes on the wall, plus a B&O TV/video package. Alll in all about Â£15Ks worth.

and they sound shite. 

Have you ever heard a decent stereo or AV set up?


----------



## snaxo (May 31, 2002)

> Bose / B&O - just lifestyle stuff IMO. Get down to your local Sevonoaks and tell them what you want to spend, and enjoy.
> 
> If you are still set on a B&O system, go and listen to one (probably don't stock them at Sevonoaks as they tend to focus on quality kit ). Garyc is right on this one.


Both B&O and Bose - horrible. Â Lifestyle products that look good but sound AWFUL ! (I have listened to both - B&O may be better than bose but how to qualify which 'awful' product is better is tough !

And sorry Raven, I wouldn't suggest anyone go down to Sevenoaks! Â They are better than Dixons but that's about it.

At the very least, go somewhere like Audio T. Â Where abouts do you live? Â If you are in London try Graham's in North London or Infidelity in Kingston, South London - both will offer you far superior advice and facilities for listening than any Sevenoaks.

Book a day for demo's and spend the whole day in the shop (or a good few hours at minimum). You'll get tea and biscuits and lots of grin factor!

Good luck !

Damian

PS Oh, as of course I would say, make sure you have Naim Audio (http://www.naim-audio.com) in your listening list - you can't even get that at Sevenoaks!

: ;D


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

If you're in town, I'd add The Cornflake Shop (http://www.cornflake.co.uk) to your list of HiFi shops really worth visiting.

Clive


----------



## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

> Odd. That's exactly what I think about Bose home kit.


Got a set pf AM15`s with an ARCAM FMJ amp and auditioned a lot of stuff before buying, personally dont think theres anything wrong with Bose speakers, just there AV kit that lacks


----------



## SteveS (Oct 20, 2003)

> Got a set pf AM15`s with an ARCAM FMJ amp and auditioned a lot of stuff before buying, personally dont think theres anything wrong with Bose speakers, just there AV kit that lacks


I'll take your AM15's and raise you Pro-Ac 3.8's driven by a Meridian power amp. :

FWIW IMO some people can get over-hyped on hi-fi (I have to fight to stop myself :). You can go nuts in the end, and there is at least as much drivel talked about it as about cars, quite possibly more.

I reckon if it sounds and looks good to YOU; go with it.

Just to add some of that aforementioned drivel 
For me there is no sub-sat solution on the market that comes close to full range speakers BUT that's just me. I don't care that my living room is dominated by big wooden boxes but I can easily see that others may care deeply. Oh, and to add fuel to the fire - the last piece of kit Bose made that I coveted was their 901 speakers about 15-20 years ago.


----------



## snaxo (May 31, 2002)

> FWIW IMO some people can get over-hyped on hi-fi (I have to fight to stop myself :). You can go nuts in the end, and there is at least as much drivel talked about it as about cars, quite possibly more.
> 
> I reckon if it sounds and looks good to YOU; go with it.


Pay attention. Wise words. 

Damian


----------



## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

hearing a solution in a shop doesnt mean it will sound the same at home. You cant justify any system as shite cos it all depends on the acoustics of your room at home.

but the only reason why people buy a BO is cos they can afford to, its like buy a porche, its about deisgn , style and brand name. If you see BO most (I only said most) people will think wow thats expensive.... pure status symbol.


----------



## raven (May 7, 2002)

> And sorry Raven, I wouldn't suggest anyone go down to Sevenoaks! Â They are better than Dixons but that's about it.


I think that's a bit unfair on Sevenoaks! Aren't they franchises, so they will vary in quality...? :-/ I actually bought most of my kit from The Listening Rooms in Chelsea, but the bloke I used to deal with left, and when they wouldn't give me a good deal on some AV kit, I went to Sevonoaks on New Kings Road who were very good. Sevonoaks in Holborn were pretty good as well.

I've heard the Cornflake Shop is very good - a mate bought his excellent Meridian kit from there many years ago.

Agree about the obsessive comment. Sometimes I find myself in convince convince mode, especially after spending rather a lot of money on a slightly more expensive cable. :-/  That's where wives come in handy - the voice of reason.


----------



## Sim (Mar 7, 2003)

I think they are class, look the dogs nuts. Sound is good, not great, but they look as good as your TT.


----------



## snaxo (May 31, 2002)

Raven - you're probably right - I may be being a little unfair.

My opinion based on the two that I have been in. The worst one is in GUildford. One assistant told a guy that he recommends a particular speaker 'because they seemed to be selling best at the moment' and that if he wants a demo - he can hear them in the clothes shop down the road that uses them.

I kid you not !!

Damian


----------



## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

Agree with you Damian about Sevenoaks Guildford - Sevenoaks in Guildford is the Hi-FI equivalent of Guildford Audi - tossers the lot of them...


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> Raven - you're probably right - I may be being a little unfair.
> 
> My opinion based on the two that I have been in. The worst one is in GUildford. Â One assistant told a guy that he recommends a particular speaker 'because they seemed to be selling best at the moment' and that if he wants a demo - he can hear them in the clothes shop down the road that uses them.
> 
> ...


Sevenoaks Bristol are OK. But of course it all depends on quality, knowledge, interest and enthusiasm of the staff.


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> I think they are class, look the dogs nuts. Sound is good, not great, but they look as good as your TT.


Does that imply the TT is the B&O of the car world?

If so, isn't 'damning with faint praise?'


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> hearing a solution in a shop doesnt mean it will sound the same at home. Â You cant justify any system as shite cos it all depends on the acoustics of your room at home.
> 
> but the only reason why people buy a BO is cos they can afford to, its like buy a porche, its about deisgn , style and brand name. Â If you see BO most (I only said most) people will think wow thats expensive.... pure status symbol.


'Most' peoples' views are based on ignorance and therefore irrelevant. Get a nice Porch.


----------



## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

music and what people hear is so subjective there will never be a definative right or wrong. what one persons hears is not necessarily what someone else hears.
even those who portry themselves as 'experts' in that field cant agree, so you cant expect the general public to !

its down to what youy are willing to pay for in terms of brand name design and sound quality.


----------



## Steve_Mc (May 6, 2002)

B+O kit doesn't sound "shite". Ferguson, Bush, LG kit sound shite, B+O kit sounds ummm OK.

For the price you'd expect better, probably a lot better, but as already said you pay for the name and the styling, which *whisper* _some people want_. I had this same argument on avforums once, and the anoraks who lurk there refused to accept that someone may buy AV kit *gasp* because it looked good (with average performance).

I have B+O TV and VCR as I don't watch much TV / films etc, so wanted something that will not stick out like an ugly box would stuck in the corner of the room when not being used. As a music fiend I was much more discerning when buying CD player, Amp etc. and spent my money on "real" audio kit (TAG, Musical Fidelity).

As always the final judge of quality is one's own ears. Always, always audition kit before buying, and take along a selection of your own music / film collection for the testing. Then decide yourself, rather than by reading other people's opinions.

Steve

PS Ed (Raven), I also found Sevenoaks on Kings Road helpful, and the Listening Rooms disappointing!


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> music and what people hear is so subjective there will never be a definative right or wrong. what one persons hears is not necessarily what someone else hears.
> even those who portry themselves as 'experts' in that field cant agree, so you cant expect the general public to !
> 
> its down to what youy are willing to pay for in Â terms of brand name design and sound quality.


<<Brand name, design and sound quality>>

OK. So if I was buying a new Hi Fi my order of statement would be:

<<Sound quality, brand quality, design>>

Sorry guys I sort of got slightly the wrong end of the stick. Â I agree, some people do want style and appearance more than a nice sound, in the purchasing of their Hi Fi. Â That is not of course to imply that the two are mutually exclusive.

And while we are at it let's not fool ourselves that there aren't plenty of stylish, well designed and _better sounding but cheaper_ alternatives to B&O out there.

I just thought that Listening Pleasure would assume a heavier weighting in the criteria, and that one might want to have a benchmark against which to calibrate how 'good' the B&O sounds. Â I'd just suggest to anyone considering investing in B&O kit, to first get a respectable Hi Fi dealer to set up an audition for a couple of well-matched (and designed) systems in the same price bracket.

Naim, Linn, Cyrus all spring to mind. Â Hear Â£2K,Â£5K, Â£10K sustems from these against similar price point offerings from B&O. Â The B&O will sound shite against them. Â OK, nothing like as good. 

Point being, if then the appearance of the B&O is enough to offset the inferior (OK less nice to _your_ ears) sound, B&O is the brand for you.

I was going to end with the contention 'Would you buy a car whose appearnce was not bettered by the driving experience, without first testing any alternatives?'

You don't need to be a road test journo or race driver to know what's good about driving a particular.

Likewise your ears should be best judge of Hi Fi quality - or maybe just a friend who is works for Homes and Â Gardens.   

Horses for etc..


----------



## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Too many people spend too much time and money on hi-fi eqpt and then don't go to the bother of setting it up correctly.

I am not an Audiophile but I do know one or two people that are.

Of them all the one that has the best quality system was the one that spent the least as he had the least to spend. Instead of going all out on top name, top design equipment he bought top quality gear that was all second hand.

His reasoning being that if he ever could afford to upgrade any piece, the pieces he already had had pretty much reached their bottom price and he could sell them for as much as he paid for them.

He spent a lot of time on his kit and getting it right and as such had a similar level of kit in his car. When the car was writtne off he had to go to an installer to get his stuff reinstalled in his new car and was able to tell immediately that the installers had wired it up incorrectly - something that I would never have picked up.

Not really sure what the moral is other than no matter what you buy, if it's not set up correctly, then it won't sound brillaint. Likewise, it's pointless buying high-end stuff if you don't have the house to listen to it in.

A modern house like mine means it's pointless buying top-notch equiptment as the floors are too spongy and the walls too thin to be able to have large speakers belting anything out.

I guess the point Gary was alluding to and not quite saying is that if you compare it to cars, then B&O would not be Porsche as Porsche is well designed and expensive, but also good at its job. It's more like a TT in that it looks great, is quite expensive but there are oads of others for the same money that do the job better.


----------



## snaxo (May 31, 2002)

A decent Hi-Fi shop (like Graham's, Infidelity, Audio T etc) will properly set-up the system you have bought as part of the buying process, as Kell is right - it's a fine art. This is another reason why it is often worth 'going out of your way' to such a place.

In fact, these places will also often loan you different kit to 'try before you buy' in your own environemnt as the sound is lilely going to be different than in their purpose made listening rooms.

;D ;D

Damian


----------



## SteveS (Oct 20, 2003)

> Â It's more like a TT in that it looks great, is quite expensive but there are oads of others for the same money that do the job better. Â


Just to veer off topic in "off topic" :

Kell, I think that statement depends on what "job" you want the car to do. For me there was no car that does the job I want done better than the V6 DSG TT.

I wanted 6 cyls, no turbo, automatic without a slushbox, 4 wheel drive and the best drive I could get with those features as a prerequisite. It may well be that over the next three years something will turn up that gives me those things and is a better overall car than the TT in which case I'll buy one at some point if it's within my budget at the time. If any such car exists right now I can't think what it is and probably can't afford it if it does.


----------



## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Just to clarify - I was trying to expand on what I thought Gary was saying.

Didn't say I agreed.


----------



## vernan (May 27, 2002)

> I wanted 6 cyls, no turbo, automatic without a slushbox, 4 wheel drive and the best drive I could get with those features as a prerequisite. It may well be that over the next three years something will turn up that gives me those things and is a better overall car than the TT in which case I'll buy one at some point if it's within my budget at the time. If any such car exists right now I can't think what it is and probably can't afford it if it does.


Porsche Carrera C4S Tiptronic


----------



## SteveS (Oct 20, 2003)

Sadly falls in the "can't afford it" category . 
Though I'm also given to understand that DSG is an advance on tiptronic in a number of ways although lord knows I'm no engineer so couldn't verify exactly how. Further, I've not been tempted to test drive something I can't afford so have never tried tiptronic.


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> Porsche Carrera C4S Tiptronic


Porsche apparently working flat out on twin clutch box to replace Tiptronic, which is still a torque converter solution. I've ragged a few tiptronic 996s on road and track and have to say my short drive in the DSG impressed more interms of control and response.

However, I could 'cope' with a 996 C4s tip


----------



## SteveS (Oct 20, 2003)

> Tiptronic, which is still a torque converter solution. Â


Ahh, thought so, couldn't recall. I have steptronic in my bm and it sure isn't anything like a manual, it's still a slushbox underneath .


----------



## dshtt (Jun 13, 2002)

After some good advice, I bought a Linn Classik and a pair of Quad 11L speakers. The system is for the conservatory and this system is a neat little package with good sound, the Linn can also be mademulti-room and controllable from aditional keypads.

Thanks for everyones help apart from those that whittered on about Porche's


----------



## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

Excellent choice


----------



## Monique (Jun 11, 2002)

Much better gear avail than B&O.

Don't be fooled by the good looks, B&O is not about quality audio.

Good luck.


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> After some good advice, I bought a Linn Classik and a pair of Quad 11L speakers. The system is for the conservatory and this system is a neat little package with good sound, the Linn can also be mademulti-room and controllable from aditional keypads.
> 
> Thanks for everyones help apart from those that whittered on about Porche's


And that my friend was a very wise choice giving good fidelity, styling and expandibility. Intelligent selection. Well done. Not that you need anyone's approval with your own ears as judge. 

The Classik is a neat one box solution with a nice finish (what colour?)

I really like the sound of the 11Ls and the light lacquered finish is amongst the best I have seen on any speakers at any price. Apparanetly as with all hi fi, they sound better once run in, the Quads needing 20hrs playing to get the cones loose and moving.

Not that you should care, but you will get more knowing nods when saying that you have a Linn/Quad setup than you ever will with B&O kit.

Enjoy. ;D


----------



## dshtt (Jun 13, 2002)

Colour boring black
With birds eye maple quads

Thanks


----------

