# Dogs on seats in pubs



## John-H

Dog friendly pubs. How friendly should they be? You may have no problem with well behaved dogs sitting quietly at their owners feet but should a pub that serves food allow patrons to encourage their dogs to sit on the seats?

Would you be happy to sit on a seat and put your hand onto the soft upholstery where a dog has a few minutes earlier had its bum?

Dogs are not allowed in food preparation and storage areas by law but it seems the serving areas are down to pub policy.

Would you be happy to see a dog on a table? Most tables and kitchen areas are smooth easy clean surfaces and are cleaned regularly but soft coverings are not easily cleaned.

So should dogs be allowed to sit on seats in pubs? Would you be happy to sit and eat where a dog has been?


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## Roller Skate

Doesn't bother me and regardless of the fact that I'm a dog owner.

There's a monumental difference between a proper pub and a fake wine bar. I like to see dogs in pubs and if you see a dog sat in a chair it's normally a local drinker that frequents the pub regularly, people simply don't have the nerve to turn up with their hound and make themselves feel right at home.

More dogs on seats if you ask me.


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## Spandex

As far as I'm concerned, more dogs, less people. I've never been annoyed by a dog in the pub, but people are always getting on my tits.

To be honest, I reckon most of the punters get so sick of stepping over my gangly greyhound sprawled inconsiderately across the floor, that they probably wish she'd just go and sit on a chair like everyone else.


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## Roller Skate

Spandex said:


> As far as I'm concerned, more dogs, less people.


Couldn't agree more.


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## Nyxx

Totally 100% agree with Roller and Spandex above.

Have you seen the mess humans leave for others to clean up. Animals

Yes Dogs should be well behaved but that does not even seem to apply to Humans.

We just had a week in Devon and the pub was not only Dog friendly they made her feel very welcome.
Here She is all 2.5 years of Lab. Were she can go, we go, if she is not welcome then we are not welcome!

My other hobby is photography.
Hard day on the beach  Also before anyone asks, yes She does go out in my/our TT.


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## ZephyR2

I wouldn't be happy sitting on a seat where a human has just been resting their bare arse. So why should a dog's bare arse on a seat be any more appealing?


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## Nyxx

Because it's not bare they have what we call a coat.

I wish people would do the amount of self hygiene than most dogs do.


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## Spandex

Honestly, the chances of the dog actually rubbing his ring on the seat are tiny - the tail kinda gets in the way. And due to their completely understandable fascination with everyones bums including their own, their arsehole is probably cleaner than yours.

If I had the choice between a seat that a dog had sat on or a seat that a toddler had been crawling on, I'd be on the dog seat. I might get a few hairs on my trousers, but at least I'm not going to also catch whatever cold or bug is doing the rounds in nursery, after they've wiped snot all over everything they can reach. Dogs might not be perfectly clean, but humans aren't either and you can't catch dog diseases.

Here's a question - if you found a hair in your soup, would you rather it was dog or human (assume it's definitely not yours)? I'm going with 'dog' all the way.


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## Roller Skate

Spandex said:


> Honestly, the chances of the dog actually rubbing his ring on the seat are tiny - the tail kinda gets in the way. And due to their completely understandable fascination with everyones bums including their own, their arsehole is probably cleaner than yours.
> 
> If I had the choice between a seat that a dog had sat on or a seat that a toddler had been crawling on, I'd be on the dog seat. I might get a few hairs on my trousers, but at least I'm not going to also catch whatever cold or bug is doing the rounds in nursery, after they've wiped snot all over everything they can reach. Dogs might not be perfectly clean, but humans aren't either and you can't catch dog diseases.
> 
> Here's a question - if you found a hair in your soup, would you rather it was dog or human (assume it's definitely not yours)? I'm going with 'dog' all the way.


You haven't met my dog ... he has anal gland issues, he doesn't care where he expresses his gland. He once did it in the back of my Toureg and I nearly crashed because of the smell, it was like a mix Of CS gas and rancid fish.


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## John-H

Nyxx said:


> Because it's not bare they have what we call a coat.
> 
> I wish people would do the amount of self hygiene than most dogs do.





Nyxx said:


> Totally 100% agree with Roller and Spandex above.


Dave, dogs coats don't button up and are completely open where it matters :roll:

I can't quite work out if you are joking or being mischievous like the others but just in case you are not: - I've seen dogs lick their bottoms when it irritates them, or indeed other dogs bottoms for other reasons but I have never witnessed a dog clean it's anal area following discharging its bowls. They tend to kick up the imaginary earth and walk off. Gravity or friction when they sit down may dislodge any residue I suppose. Or is yours specially trained for your TT? :wink:

The only attempt at possible cleaning I've seen (or was it itching due to endless repeat picking up of worms despite worming tablets!) was with our family Labrador which drove my mother to distraction with the lovely trait of sticking it's back legs out akimbo and drawing itself along by its front legs, scooting its rear end across the living room ccarpet for a rough scrape. Oh, and often it would sit down trail out Spandex :roll:

If you are being serious, you must believe it would be fine to allow dogs into the kitchens and food preparation areas. Why then is it against hygiene regulations?

Please tell me you are only trying to wind us up and you don't actually believe what's written. :?

For the record, I don't want to sit where a dog has been. I don't think it's fair of dog owners to inflict this on others.


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## Nyxx

John-H said:


> If you are being serious, you must believe it would be fine to allow dogs into the kitchens and food preparation areas. Why then is it against hygiene regulations?
> 
> Please tell me you are only trying to wind me up and you don't actually believe what you've written. :?
> 
> For the record, I don't want to sit where a dog has been. I don't think it's fair of dog owners to inflict this on others.


For the Record!!!!
Have your even owned a Dog?

I Could not be more Serious.

I think you trying to wind us all up with your Topic. Fine you don't like the thought of sitting were a Dog has been, I can expect that. I can also expect others not wanting to aswell. I also expect some people not liking human children and like wise think they also have a "problem". Humans for you.

How ever, like it or not you will have to except I have no problem sitting and lying on my settee with my lab. Also she is always in the Kitchen when we are in there. Shock horror!

You are trying to imply a Dogs leaves Sh!t after its been sitting down. With that long winded reply? 
Sadly, very sadly, you're just showing how ignorant you are.


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## Stiff

It's a nope from me as well. If I saw a dog sitting in a chair at a pub, I would probably walk straight back out and go to the next one. I don't want my jeans/trousers covering in dog hairs (have enough cat hairs to get off before I go out) and certainly not any 'klingons' or 'dangleburys'. Same goes with toddlers with half a candle hanging off their top lip. Maybe I'm just being too fussy but meh.

I've just tried this too, but Mrs Stiff didn't seem too pleased and screamed at me "Not while we've got guests!"
It wasn't very pleasant either but I should've tried it on the carpet instead of the kitchen tiles.


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## Spandex

John-H said:


> Oh, and often it would sit down trail out Spandex :roll:


I wasn't saying the tail covered their arsehole, just that it gets in the way. It really is pretty hard for a dog to get its arse touching a surface they're lying/sitting on. If you've seen a dog with arse problems trying to scratch the itch on the floor, you'd know just how much effort it involves :wink:



John-H said:


> If you are being serious, you must believe it would be fine to allow dogs into the kitchens and food preparation areas.


It *is* fine. My dog is in the kitchen all the time. I grew up with dogs in the kitchen all the time. Funnily enough, nothing bad ever happened.


John-H said:


> Why then is it against hygiene regulations?


Because food hygiene regulations err on the side of caution - the health risks of a dog being in the kitchen might be vanishingly small but there's no benefits to them being there whatsoever so they might as well prevent it. It's completely fine for a chef to prepare food when he has a cold - no regulation against that at all. Is that because it's safe? No, it's because it would be too restrictive to ban it, so it's allowed. The regulations aren't a good way to judge outright risk.


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## Roller Skate

.


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## Hoggy

Hi, Nose Blind & Febreeze come to mind. :lol: :lol:  
Hoggy.


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## ZephyR2

If I sat down on the floor like dogs. If I sat on the wet pavement like dogs. And if I sat on the muddy grass like dogs - then my pants would be filthy. If I then sat on a seat in a pub, or anywhere else, some of that muck would be transferred to that seat. Clearly not hygienic or fair to other users.

Some dogs are well cared for by their owners and keep themselves clean. Others are not so looked after or well groomed. It's not uncommon to see a dog with faeces residue adhering to its nether region, particularly if it has long or matted fur.

So if you say it's OK for dogs to sit on seats then not only do you allow the well groomed dogs to sit there but also those that are caked in mud and have crap hanging from their arse. Imagine putting your hand on the seat where a dirty dog has just been sitting - and then proceeding to eat your crisps with that hand.


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## ashfinlayson

Never mind that my spaniel probably gets a bath more often than some punters, the perception that dogs are unclean is nonsensical; The air you breath is filthy, the door handle you touch is filthy, the wall you lean on is filthy, the gents is normally vomit-worthy on a busy night and there is probably more faecal bacteria on the £10 note you paid for your pint and crisps with than there is on a dogs arsehole. At least a dogs arse gets cleaned, even if he does do it in front of the tele :lol:

This is Dylan's _I've just shat in the dining room_ face, enjoy


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## Spandex

ZephyR2 said:


> Imagine putting your hand on the seat where a dirty dog has just been sitting - and then proceeding to eat your crisps with that hand.


Yes, some dogs get dirty. Yes, a small number of those dogs will get on furniture. But the point is, humans get dirty too and they're *all* on the furniture, touching every surface you touch.

The only difference is that you're used to being where other people have been so you don't think anything of it. And the dog owners in this thread are all used to being where dogs have been so they think nothing of it. And the parents are all used to being around slightly sticky, germy children so they think nothing of it. Notice a theme?

Yep, whether or not you find something acceptable has more to do with what you're used to than how hygienic it actually is.

That being said, you're far far more likely to catch something from one of the many other customers than you are from a dog.


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## red3.2

Please or offend I would go a step further in saying dogs ( except guide dogs) should be banned from restaurants entirely.


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## Spandex

red3.2 said:


> Please or offend I would go a step further in saying dogs ( except guide dogs) should be banned from restaurants entirely.


The problem is, the people who are actually knowledgeable on food hygiene and responsible for ensuring we are all safe when eating out, don't have any issue with animals in restaurants/pubs, so if it's not an issue with hygiene, why exactly don't you want them there?

Just out of interest, is there anything else that you think should be banned simply because you're not keen on it? :wink:


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## Nyxx

ZephyR2 said:


> So if you say it's OK for dogs to sit on seats then not only do you allow the well groomed dogs to sit there but also those that are caked in mud and have crap hanging from their arse. Imagine putting your hand on the seat where a dirty dog has just been sitting - and then proceeding to eat your crisps with that hand.


If you went for a walk in the country in winter and your boots were covered in mud. When you got to the country pub would you sit down and but your feet up on a chair with your boots covered in mud? No you would not!
So why on earth do you think a Dog owner would let their Dog sit on a chair, bench if it was dirty.

Your ridiculous comment from above with just one word changed.
_"Imagine putting your hand on the seat where a dirty BOOT has just been sitting - and then proceeding to eat your crisps with that hand."_

Do you think Dog owners are void of sense or responsibility for their dog and other people?



Spandex said:


> Just out of interest, is there anything else that you think should be banned simply because you're not keen on it? :wink:


He probably just simply does not like Dogs, I get that I don't even have a problem with it. 
Not in his case but the ignorance is what kicks me off.

Can I ask the owner to ban people talking very loud so everyone in the restaurant can here them ordering a bottle of wine that costs way too much just to let everyone know there a pr!ck. Could you also ban groupes when they get drunk and try to take over the place. But a well behaved dog lying on the floor needs banning?

Or could we all just try and use "common sense" or is that to hard?

Any responsible dog owner would not let their Dog sit on any settee chair anywhere in there own house let alone someone else's or a pub. If the dog was not clean. 
Also even if my Lab was sitting on a bench I would make sure I wiped up any hairs she left, just like a used to check to clean any mess my son left as a young kid. Responsibility.

If someone let there muddy dog sit on a seat then I would say something just like I would to the person sticking his/her mud boots on a chair. We all can have respect for others.....some sadly not.


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## Spandex

Nyxx said:


> Spandex said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just out of interest, is there anything else that you think should be banned simply because you're not keen on it? :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> He probably just simple does not like Dogs, I get that I don't even have a problem with it.
> Not in his case but the ignorance is what kicks me off.
Click to expand...

I know, I was just taking the p*** really...

My point is that people complaining here are trying to invent reasons why it's a health hazard, etc. when really it just comes down to them not liking something. I get that - lots of things I don't like too, but I don't think that means they should be banned and I don't try to invent reasons why something is bad. I accept that I can be grumpy and intolerant and I don't expect the world to change in order to cheer up my miserable boat.


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## Nyxx

Spandex said:


> Nyxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spandex said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just out of interest, is there anything else that you think should be banned simply because you're not keen on it? :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> He probably just simple does not like Dogs, I get that I don't even have a problem with it.
> Not in his case but the ignorance is what kicks me off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know, I was just taking the p*** really...
> 
> My point is that people complaining here are trying to invent reasons why it's a health hazard, etc. when really it just comes down to them not liking something. I get that - lots of things I don't like too, but I don't think that means they should be banned and I don't try to invent reasons why something is bad. I accept that I can be grumpy and intolerant and I don't expect the world to change in order to cheer up my miserable boat.
Click to expand...

I know you was :wink: 

And yes I fully agree Spandex.


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## Stiff

I'm just glad they brought the smoking ban in. These ones used to do my head in.










But these ones are still a total pain :?





















Spandex said:


> I accept that I can be grumpy and intolerant


That really surprises me Spandy, I thought you were the opposite


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## Stiff

Spandex said:


> Just out of interest, is there anything else that you think should be banned simply because you're not keen on it?


Black pudding. It's the work of the devil.


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## Roller Skate

Stiff said:


> Spandex said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just out of interest, is there anything else that you think should be banned simply because you're not keen on it?
> 
> 
> 
> Black pudding. It's the work of the devil.
Click to expand...

The Greeks.


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## mhuk01

lol dogs on a seat. Some people really have some strange ideas.


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## Nyxx

mhuk01 said:


> lol dogs on a seat. Some people really have some strange ideas.


Yer its really strange! 









Just not so strange as people!


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## Roller Skate

Nyxx said:


> mhuk01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol dogs on a seat. Some people really have some strange ideas.
> 
> 
> 
> Yer its really strange!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just not so strange as people!
Click to expand...

Mine sleeps in my bed with me, in, not on. I'm not sure of any health issues that may arise from this, but I'm sure he's never caught anything from me.

My sofa is about to be replace Nyxx, he's kinda ruined it over the last few years, new one coming next month. Will I ban him from the sofa? No. It's a sofa.


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## Nyxx

(That photo on the settee is not my photo or Lab.)

I think it's really nice your dog sleeps with you.  
We have a two leather ones and find them to be great, her hairs don't get in the fabric and very easy to look after.

When we was in Devon staying in a newly converted 2 bed detached house on a farm. Unlike at home were she sleeps downstairs we let her come up with us.

She thought it was great to jump on the bed cuddle up to us both, she had to lie in the middle ofc. She thought she would let me know in the middle of the night with a few big kiss's that she was so happy to be in our "basket" with us.

The wife has a skin disease and both the Doctor and vets have said there is no problem with having a Dog. We asked before we got her ofc. 
She has been one of the best things to ever happen to us. We both love her and would do anything for her. In return she gives her unconditional love and wants nothing more really than to simple be with us both.
If I had to choose between her and my TT, the car would lose without even thinking about it.


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## ZephyR2

Oh dear! I seem to have touched a raw nerve or two with this one. :lol: :lol:


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## John-H

I think many would baulk at the suggestion of sleeping with their dog or many even cuddling up with one but fair enough to you if that's fine with you and your dog. Everyone is different. Recognising those differnces and accommodating them is a way to get on is it not?



Nyxx said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are being serious, you must believe it would be fine to allow dogs into the kitchens and food preparation areas. Why then is it against hygiene regulations?
> 
> Please tell me you are only trying to wind me up and you don't actually believe what you've written. :?
> 
> For the record, I don't want to sit where a dog has been. I don't think it's fair of dog owners to inflict this on others.
> 
> 
> 
> For the Record!!!!
> Have your even owned a Dog?
> 
> I Could not be more Serious.
> 
> I think you trying to wind us all up with your Topic. Fine you don't like the thought of sitting were a Dog has been, I can expect that. I can also expect others not wanting to aswell. I also expect some people not liking human children and like wise think they also have a "problem". Humans for you.
> 
> How ever, like it or not you will have to except I have no problem sitting and lying on my settee with my lab. Also she is always in the Kitchen when we are in there. Shock horror!
> 
> You are trying to imply a Dogs leaves Sh!t after its been sitting down. With that long winded reply?
> Sadly, very sadly, you're just showing how ignorant you are.
Click to expand...

I'm not. You seem to have ignored where I said we had a pet Labrador. As I teenager I had to look after it too and clean up afterwards but when I left home I never wanted to own a dog or a cat. I had a moth once because my daughter encouraged me.

What dogs may leave behind is obviously something that doesn't bother you or you don't believe exists. The thought of it existing can bother other people though. That's my main reason for starting this thread. I was getting rather irked by frequently finding the seats in a favourite pub smelling of dog and having to move - only to have someone else's dog jump up next to me all over my shopping. I asked the woman to keep her dog on the floor only to be told that this is a "dog friendly pub". Some people seem to have no consideration for others.



Spandex said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and often it would sit down trail out Spandex :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't saying the tail covered their arsehole, just that it gets in the way. It really is pretty hard for a dog to get its arse touching a surface they're lying/sitting on. If you've seen a dog with arse problems trying to scratch the itch on the floor, you'd know just how much effort it involves :wink:
Click to expand...

Would you be happy if your dog sat on your hand like that? Well perhaps you would? Bits fall off somewhere. Perhaps it doesn't bother you but it might bother others.



Spandex said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are being serious, you must believe it would be fine to allow dogs into the kitchens and food preparation areas.
> 
> 
> 
> It *is* fine. My dog is in the kitchen all the time. I grew up with dogs in the kitchen all the time. Funnily enough, nothing bad ever happened.
> 
> 
> 
> John-H said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why then is it against hygiene regulations?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because food hygiene regulations err on the side of caution - the health risks of a dog being in the kitchen might be vanishingly small but there's no benefits to them being there whatsoever so they might as well prevent it. It's completely fine for a chef to prepare food when he has a cold - no regulation against that at all. Is that because it's safe? No, it's because it would be too restrictive to ban it, so it's allowed. The regulations aren't a good way to judge outright risk.
Click to expand...

Well you seem to highlight the incongruity of your own argument. Why can't you err on the side of caution and keep your dog off the furniture? Why do you think it's acceptable to expose others to the risk when it can easily be avoided by keeping the dog on the floor? Even if you think the risk is vanishingly small that's your opinion until proved otherwise and more to the point it may not be the opinion held by others who believe that it IS unhygenic and that dog owners should have more consideration for the sensibilities of people who choose not to own dogs and perhaps don't want to come into contact with them whether their fear or dislike is justified or not. You know people don't agree with it as this poll seems to suggest. Don't you think it would be kinder to non dog owners to enjoy your freedom to be allowed to bring your dog into a pub by keeping it off the furniture? Aren't we all more likely to get on in harmony if such consideration were observed?

Anyway, there is a risk, especially to children of toxocara. Apparently about 50 children become infected in the UK every year and it can cause blindness and asthma. About 10,000 infections are reported the the USA and the microscopic eggs attach themselves to the fur and can be contracted by stroking the animal. A responsible owner will worm their dog regularly to avoid this risk but how can we tell?



Nyxx said:


> ZephyR2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if you say it's OK for dogs to sit on seats then not only do you allow the well groomed dogs to sit there but also those that are caked in mud and have crap hanging from their arse. Imagine putting your hand on the seat where a dirty dog has just been sitting - and then proceeding to eat your crisps with that hand.
> 
> 
> 
> If you went for a walk in the country in winter and your boots were covered in mud. When you got to the country pub would you sit down and but your feet up on a chair with your boots covered in mud? No you would not!
> So why on earth do you think a Dog owner would let their Dog sit on a chair, bench if it was dirty.
> 
> Your ridiculous comment from above with just one word changed.
> 
> _"Imagine putting your hand on the seat where a dirty BOOT has just been sitting - and then proceeding to eat your crisps with that hand."_
> 
> Do you think Dog owners are void of sense or responsibility for their dog and other people?
Click to expand...

Apparently so Dave - by removing the one word "mud". Can I suggest you imagine walking into a pub in your (non muddy) shoes or boots and then proceeding to walk on the furniture? I'm imagining you would not do that. Do you think it's acceptable to put your feet on the chairs or the table? No I don't think you would do that either. Why then do you or others think it acceptable to allow your (non muddy) dog to walk all over and sit on the furniture?



Nyxx said:


> Spandex said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just out of interest, is there anything else that you think should be banned simply because you're not keen on it? :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> He probably just simply does not like Dogs, I get that I don't even have a problem with it.
> Not in his case but the ignorance is what kicks me off.
Click to expand...

What bothers me Dave is dog owners who think inflicting their pet on others is acceptable and everyone else should just put up with it. I really don't want someon's dog to jump up at me, lick me or attempt to eat something off my plate when I'm dining which happened to me once - more than once when I think of it. The owners eventually came and pulled it away laughing like it was all a big joke.



Nyxx said:


> Can I ask the owner to ban people talking very loud so everyone in the restaurant can here them ordering a bottle of wine that costs way too much just to let everyone know there a pr!ck. Could you also ban groupes when they get drunk and try to take over the place. But a well behaved dog lying on the floor needs banning?


Well you could ask. Many pubs and restaurants don't allow animals of course.



Nyxx said:


> Or could we all just try and use "common sense" or is that to hard?
> 
> Any responsible dog owner would not let their Dog sit on any settee chair anywhere in there own house let alone someone else's or a pub. If the dog was not clean.
> Also even if my Lab was sitting on a bench I would make sure I wiped up any hairs she left, just like a used to check to clean any mess my son left as a young kid. Responsibility.
> 
> If someone let there muddy dog sit on a seat then I would say something just like I would to the person sticking his/her mud boots on a chair. We all can have respect for others.....some sadly not.


I agree with common sense - sense - awareness - of others sensibilities. Dare I suggest empathy? I'm sure no responsible dog owner such as yourself would allow their dirty dog on anyone's furniture - nor would they put their muddy boots on the furniture. We've been through this - you wouldn't walk on someone's furniture with your non muddy shoes or put your shoes on the furniture - why allow your non muddy dog on there? What's the difference? What you allow in your own home is also your affair but the point is why not keep your dog on the floor in a pub and keep everyone happy? Isn't that common sense and common courtesy?


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## Spandex

So in short, John thinks dogs are unhygienic and that 'accommodating others' simply means everyone else taking his views into account and avoiding doing things he doesn't like.

If there was an increased risk of disease from the presence of dogs, people who lived in a house with dogs would be more likely to get ill than those who live in a pet-free home. I can find no evidence to back that up. This is all in your head. You don't like the _idea_ of it.

Fortunately the regulations and many pub owners agree with the view that there's nothing wrong with dogs in pubs. I do, however, encourage you to present the findings of your scientific poll to pub landlords upon your arrival at their establishment. Perhaps you could also throw in a few choice phrases, like "the people have spoken!" or "it's the faeces that won it!"


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## Nyxx

John your arguments are so ridiculous am not even going to entertain you with a reply.

A perfect sum up.


Spandex said:


> So in short, John thinks dogs are unhygienic and that 'accommodating others' *simply means everyone else taking his views into account and avoiding doing things he doesn't like.*


Short and to the point Spandex.

The topic is pointless anyway as 99% of the time Dogs are always on the floor.


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## John-H

Listen to the pair of you - you are doing exactly what you are accusing me of :lol:

As for evidence you only have to put "toxocara" into Google. I suppose you'll be telling me there's no need to wash your hands after going to the loo next because you can't find evidence. Just look up typhoid Mary :roll:


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## Stiff

Spandex said:


> So in short, John thinks dogs are unhygienic and that 'accommodating others' simply means everyone else taking *his *views into account and avoiding doing things* he* doesn't like.


Out of the 20 people that currently voted, 65% agree with *his* views and the things *he* doesn't like. :roll: 
It seems that the minority are just more passionate and vocal (a bit like the Brexit thread).
It's a pointless argument. You either agree or don't agree and nothing will change your views (a bit like the Brexit thread)


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## John-H

I have no problem with your summary Stiff - it's fair enough. People are different some are dog people and some are not. And just in case there is any misunderstanding I and I'm sure many others, don't have a problem with well behaved dogs in pubs that stay on the floor. Surely that way everyone can be happy


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## ashfinlayson

Rather than assume those that don't agree with you are wrong, wouldn't the sensible thing be to find a pub that doesn't allow dogs?


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## Spandex

ashfinlayson said:


> Rather than assume those that don't agree with you are wrong, wouldn't the sensible thing be to find a pub that doesn't allow dogs?


Boom.


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## Spandex

John-H said:


> Listen to the pair of you - you are doing exactly what you are accusing me of :lol:
> 
> As for evidence you only have to put "toxocara" into Google. I suppose you'll be telling me there's no need to wash your hands after going to the loo next because you can't find evidence. Just look up typhoid Mary :roll:


No, I'm not. Accommodating others means compromise on both sides - so both parties adjust their behaviour. Of course, when I'm out with my dog I don't give her the same freedom to roam the pub doing what she wants that she'd have at home, but in return I expect other punters who have voluntarily chosen to sit in a dog friendly pub to accept that they may end up with some unwanted interaction with a dog at some point.

I googled 'toxocara' as instructed. I discovered that the toxocara eggs require several weeks incubation outside the host in warm moist conditions before becoming infectious to humans, so you're not going to catch it by sitting on a seat that a dog has sat on previously. Generally you would catch it from contaminated soil, or sometimes from undercooked contaminated meat (where the animal had the parasite when it was alive). I also learned that it is fairly rare in humans and most people who are infected have no symptoms and the parasite dies within a few months. Usually it is children who catch it because they often play in mud and have poor hand washing discipline. To my surprise, 'pubs' was not listed as a common vector.

Given that you're clearly much much more likely to catch things from the humans you're sharing the pub with, are you also as neurotic about them?


----------



## John-H

ashfinlayson said:


> Rather than assume those that don't agree with you are wrong, wouldn't the sensible thing be to find a pub that doesn't allow dogs?


Well that's a good point. The reason is I like the place for it's excellent beer and food which is hard to match and I've been going there for thirty years or something. They had a refit a good number of years ago with nice new soft furnishings in the "posh" dining area and then later replaced the remaining hard stools and seats in the bar area with more soft furnishings and herein lies the problem. I don't recall dogs being allowed on seats years ago. In fact I can't recall many dogs at all and if there were they were unnoticed on the floor in the bar area with a bowl of water which was fine. There seem to be more dogs now possibly - and on seats leaving dog smells. The dog area, if there was such a thing is now the whole area. It's not pleasant when you start checking your shoes or wondering if you or the bloke next to you has a problem only to realise the seat is whiffy. It puts you of your food.


----------



## ZephyR2

Maybe you should start another thread John asking -
Do you let your dog sit on the seats in your TT?
Do you place a blanket on the seats in the TT for it to sit on?
Do you relegate it to the boot?


----------



## John-H

Spandex said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> 
> Listen to the pair of you - you are doing exactly what you are accusing me of :lol:
> 
> As for evidence you only have to put "toxocara" into Google. I suppose you'll be telling me there's no need to wash your hands after going to the loo next because you can't find evidence. Just look up typhoid Mary :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'm not. Accommodating others means compromise on both sides - so both parties adjust their behaviour. Of course, when I'm out with my dog I don't give her the same freedom to roam the pub doing what she wants that she'd have at home, but in return I expect other punters who have voluntarily chosen to sit in a dog friendly pub to accept that they may end up with some unwanted interaction with a dog at some point.
> 
> I googled 'toxocara' as instructed. I discovered that the toxocara eggs require several weeks incubation outside the host in warm moist conditions before becoming infectious to humans, so you're not going to catch it by sitting on a seat that a dog has sat on previously. Generally you would catch it from contaminated soil, or sometimes from undercooked contaminated meat (where the animal had the parasite when it was alive). I also learned that it is fairly rare in humans and most people who are infected have no symptoms and the parasite dies within a few months. Usually it is children who catch it because they often play in mud and have poor hand washing discipline. To my surprise, 'pubs' was not listed as a common vector.
> 
> Given that you're clearly much much more likely to catch things from the humans you're sharing the pub with, are you also as neurotic about them?
Click to expand...

Your information is a bit out of date regarding the understanding about transfer. See here regarding "stroking" animals:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... ting-worm/

Yes I agree it's rare but so are many diseases such can easily be avoided by taking simple precautions.

You and your dog have already been accommodated by allowing you both into the pub. Why do you think it's Ok to take that advantage further by making it unpleasant for others when the simple act of keeping your dog off the furniture avoid any unpleasantness?

You wouldn't walk on the furniture with your shoes or put your feet or bare bottom on the chairs and tables. Why on earth do you think it's acceptable to allow your dog to do that?


----------



## Spandex

John-H said:


> You and your dog have already been accommodated by allowing you both into the pub. Why do you think it's Ok to take that advantage further by making it unpleasant for others when the simple act of keeping your dog off the furniture avoid any unpleasantness?
> 
> You wouldn't walk on the furniture with your shoes or put your feet or bare bottom on the chairs and tables. Why on earth do you think it's acceptable to allow your dog to do that?


Ahh.. So it's other people who have to do the accommodating, not you. The landlord accommodates me, I in turn accommodate everyone else and John relaxes with his pint. Nice try.

As for feet on the furniture, I see kids doing it all the time in pubs. And they're the ones that are most likely to play around outside and most likely to tread in a dog egg. And they're most likely to have contaminated soil on their hands - which they then use to touch the chairs and table. But you're not complaining about them, which makes me a little less sympathetic to all your desperate claims about bacteria and diseases and parasites. As I said before, this is just a long-winded way of announcing that you don't like dogs and think everyone else should change their behaviour to accommodate that.

I did sort of ask this before, but out of curiosity, if you looked down and spotted a hair in your half-drunk beer, would you rather it was dog or human? It's not particularly relevant and neither option is that appealing, but I dunno... there's just something about the thought of it belonging to another person that makes me that bit more disgusted...


----------



## NickG

I've got to say, as a respectful dog owner i wouldn't allow my dog on a seat in a public area, i don't mind it at all and at home he's allowed on the sofa and occasionally on the bed, but part of owning a dog is respecting that others might not be as keen. It's the hairs that annoy me, sooooo much hair! :lol: Although sometimes in a weird way it's nice to find a bit of Neville clinging on your jacket when your away and haven't seen him for days! (Yes, he's called Neville... deal with it) :lol:


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## Roller Skate

ZephyR2 said:


> Maybe you should start another thread John asking -
> Do you let your dog sit on the seats in your TT?
> Do you place a blanket on the seats in the TT for it to sit on?
> Do you relegate it to the boot?


I've had to draw the line at letting him drive nowadays.


----------



## NickG

Roller Skate said:


> ZephyR2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you should start another thread John asking -
> Do you let your dog sit on the seats in your TT?
> Do you place a blanket on the seats in the TT for it to sit on?
> Do you relegate it to the boot?
> 
> 
> 
> I've had to draw the line at letting him drive nowadays.
Click to expand...

Why draw the line there though hey!?


----------



## Stiff

John-H said:


> I have no problem with your summary Stiff - it's fair enough. People are different some are dog people and some are not.


I was actually agreeing with you John  The fact that 65% agree with you speaks volumes. Add the fact that they still seem to miss that you had a pet Labrador also. (I've owned dogs too, so I'm not a dog 'hater')
Just because the minority are more vocal and passionate doesn't mean they're right. 
And as for the hair in the glass - (stupid analogy but there we go) I'd rather have a human hair as it's probably been washed daily as opposed to some animal that rolls on the floor/soil/pavement/puddles, brushes through hedges, bushes and god know what else.


----------



## Stiff

Roller Skate said:


> I've had to draw the line at letting him drive nowadays.


Seeing some of the driving around here lately I think he may well do a better job!


----------



## Roller Skate

NickG said:


> Roller Skate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZephyR2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you should start another thread John asking -
> Do you let your dog sit on the seats in your TT?
> Do you place a blanket on the seats in the TT for it to sit on?
> Do you relegate it to the boot?
> 
> 
> 
> I've had to draw the line at letting him drive nowadays.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why draw the line there though hey!?
Click to expand...

I said "nowadays" Nick, he was a menace on the roads in his younger days. :lol:


----------



## Roller Skate

Stiff said:


> Roller Skate said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've had to draw the line at letting him drive nowadays.
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing some of the driving around here lately I think he may well do a better job!
Click to expand...

I feel your pain.


----------



## NickG

Roller Skate said:


> I said "nowadays" Nick, he was a menace on the roads in his younger days. :lol:


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Spandex

Stiff said:


> And as for the hair in the glass - (stupid analogy but there we go)


It certainly would be a stupid analogy. Fortunately, it wasn't one. Thanks for answering.


----------



## John-H

Stiff said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no problem with your summary Stiff - it's fair enough. People are different some are dog people and some are not.
> 
> 
> 
> I was actually agreeing with you John  The fact that 65% agree with you speaks volumes. Add the fact that they still seem to miss that you had a pet Labrador also. (I've owned dogs too, so I'm not a dog 'hater')
> Just because the minority are more vocal and passionate doesn't mean they're right.
> And as for the hair in the glass - (stupid analogy but there we go) I'd rather have a human hair as it's probably been washed daily as opposed to some animal that rolls on the floor/soil/pavement/puddles, brushes through hedges, bushes and god know what else.
Click to expand...

Thanks, yes I did NOT start this thread to have a pop at dogs. It was to find out what people think in general and raise the issue of what people perceive as acceptable.

I agree with you about the hair as people tend to wash more often, although it's probably unlikely to cause me harm either way.

Spandex is like a dog with a bone (appropriate!) which I find very interesting and entertaining most of the time and I wouldn't want it any other way but I do think he's let his emotions get the better of his logic on this occasion. I did ask why he wouldn't walk over furniture or sit with his bare bum on the upholstery yet he thinks it perfectly proper for his dog to do so. He avoided answering that direct contradiction and amusingly instead complained that I had not complained about children standing on furniture in pubs and then ridiculously tried to infer that I had a thing about dogs on chairs and not children. WRONG :lol:

I'm out and about at the moment and was actually thinking of editing my post to ask: Spandex, if you had kids would you think it Ok to allow them to stand on the seats? Would you expect people to accommodate this behavior and accuse them of having a problem if they don't accept it? :lol:

No! So why on earth do you think allowing your dog to do the same is acceptable?

I of course would find kids doing the same wrong and their parents inconsiderate of others if they allowed it. I don't see the difference between those inconsiderate parents and inconsiderate dog owners allowing the same thing, so Spandex, your argument falls flat on some part of its anatomy!

But, I know you keep your greyhound as a trip hazard actually so that's fine :wink: I didn't believe for one minute what you were inviting me to imagine.


----------



## Spandex

Stiff said:


> The fact that 65% agree with you speaks volumes.


Given that 25% of UK households have a pet dog, I'd certainly agree that the poll results do speak volumes.


----------



## Spandex

John-H said:


> Spandex, if you had kids would you think it Ok to allow them to stand on the seats? Would you expect people to accommodate this behavior and accuse them of having a problem if they don't accept it? :lol:
> 
> No! So why on earth do you think allowing your dog to do the same is acceptable?


I wouldn't let my kids use the chairs as a playground, but I would accept that they may end up getting their feet on the seats at times due to the fact that kids have short legs and also they wriggle around a lot and change position.



John-H said:


> don't see the difference between those inconsiderate parents and inconsiderate dog owners allowing the same thing, so Spandex, your argument falls flat on some part of its anatomy.


Yeah, but you didn't start a thread about childrens feet on seats. Despite the fact that that would happen more often than dogs on seats and despite the fact that kids are also putting their hands all over the actual table (so are more of a contamination risk than dogs) you singled out dogs. And hence, no sympathy for your neurotic rant.


----------



## Stiff

This place would annoy me. :lol: 
(and I don't know if that's chocolate on the middle cushion near the dogs hoof but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt)


----------



## John-H

Spandex said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> 
> Spandex, if you had kids would you think it Ok to allow them to stand on the seats? Would you expect people to accommodate this behavior and accuse them of having a problem if they don't accept it? :lol:
> 
> No! So why on earth do you think allowing your dog to do the same is acceptable?
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't let my kids use the chairs as a playground, but I would accept that they may end up getting their feet on the seats at times due to the fact that kids have short legs and also they wriggle around a lot and change position.
Click to expand...

That's great. It's great to hear parents say, "Take your feet of the chairs!" to their children or "Get down!" if a dog jumps up. It shows some respect for others and I would say the same to my own kids or a dog if I had one.



Spandex said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> 
> don't see the difference between those inconsiderate parents and inconsiderate dog owners allowing the same thing, so Spandex, your argument falls flat on some part of its anatomy.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, but you didn't start a thread about childrens feet on seats. Despite the fact that that would happen more often than dogs on seats and despite the fact that kids are also putting their hands all over the actual table (so are more of a contamination risk than dogs) you singled out dogs. And hence, no sympathy for your neurotic rant.
Click to expand...

Well no, I was not spurred by a general statistic but by a personal experience. The pub I'm taking about is mainly a middle aged pub with only rare appearances from children, who when I see them are well behaved and delightful. I have never experienced (in this pub) misbehaving children - ever! That's because they are so rare I suppose and they have good parents as it happens. I have however seen dogs on seats and suffered from the smell subsequently. That's due to their owners not the dogs and I think it's unacceptable, as is the sight of them allowing their dogs to scamper over the furniture or stand on the tables. If I had a dog (as I have had a child) I would be supremely aware of any bother or consequence they were causing to others.
If you are going to be so unkind to call my thread a rant then I have the option of calling your response an arrogant counter but I don't wish to descend into accusations of position as that's just point scoring rubbish when the argument is past. I'm sure in general you have similar sensibilities to me, just perhaps from different perspective. I would wish people in general to have more consideration of others as I, and from what you've said you, would of them.


----------



## Roller Skate

Stiff said:



> This place would annoy me. :lol:
> (and I don't know if that's chocolate on the middle cushion near the dogs hoof but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt)


Remove the benefits scrounger on the left and that's my idea of heaven.


----------



## Spandex

John-H said:


> That's great. It's great to hear parents say, "Take your feet of the chairs!" to their children or "Get down!" if a dog jumps up. It shows some respect for others and I would say the same to my own kids or a dog if I had one.


But we're not talking about what you or I or anyone else would do with their dog (or child). You're asking if people are happy to sit where a dog has sat.

To be honest, the main reason I wouldn't let my dog on the seats (for the sake of the argument I'll ignore the fact that she'd never get on them because she wouldn't fit) is because I'd just assume she wasn't allowed. If I was in a pub where other dogs were on seats, I'd be less concerned if mine did the same. I don't think dogs on seats is inherently inconsiderate, any more than I think children on pub seats is inherently inconsiderate.

I don't really understand what you think happened in the pub you're talking about. You say the seat 'smelled of dog', but then talk about thinking something was on your shoe - the implication being the 'dog smell' was actually a 'dog s*** smell'. Frankly, if the seat smelled of dog s*** I'd say the least likely explanation would be that it was caused by a dog sitting on it. I've sat in lots of places where dogs also sit, and have never smelled dog s*** on them. Honestly I'd say it's more likely to have come from someone's shoe on the seat.


----------



## ZephyR2

Stiff said:


> This place would annoy me. :lol:
> (and I don't know if that's chocolate on the middle cushion near the dogs hoof but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt)


Are you sure that's a dog? Looks a bit like a kangaroo to me. :lol:


----------



## Nyxx

Roller Skate said:


> Stiff said:
> 
> 
> 
> This place would annoy me. :lol:
> (and I don't know if that's chocolate on the middle cushion near the dogs hoof but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the benefits scrounger on the left and that's my idea of heaven.
Click to expand...

To make it perfect throw in some beers and some scooby snacks.


----------



## Stiff

ZephyR2 said:


> Are you sure that's a dog? Looks a bit like a kangaroo to me. :lol:


I thought the same at first!  Surprisingly similar at that angle.


----------



## Stiff

Nyxx said:


> To make it perfect throw in some beers and some scooby snacks.


The dog holding another controller would have been the icing on the cake


----------



## Roller Skate

Stiff said:


> Nyxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> To make it perfect throw in some beers and some scooby snacks.
> 
> 
> 
> The dog holding another controller would have been the icing on the cake
Click to expand...

If they had thumbs my dog would have moved out years ago. :lol:


----------



## Stiff

Roller Skate said:


> If they had thumbs my dog would have moved out years ago. :lol:


 :lol:


----------



## Roller Skate

John-H said:


> I was in a "dog friendly" pub other day where someone allowed their dog on the seat. The bar staff asked him to get the dog off the seat. The dog owner apologised and returned the dog to the floor. Respect all round.
> 
> Are you going to identify your pub or do you think that would do them or yourself no favors?
> 
> I'm surprised it hasn't fallen off at that angle.


I'll be honest ... it's a shithole, it's called The Wagon and Horses in Leeds ... they don't serve food, but they do serve cider which is the reason I was in there.

The dogs are cleaner than most the people that frequent the place, it's very Northern.


----------



## Spandex

John-H said:


> Are you going to identify your pub or do you think that would do them or yourself no favors?


I suspect if we drew a venn diagram showing the intersection of people who hate dogs on pubs seats and people who use the TT Forum instead of TripAdviser, it would just be you John. They can probably afford the lost business.


----------



## John-H

Spandex said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you going to identify your pub or do you think that would do them or yourself no favors?
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect if we drew a venn diagram showing the intersection of people who hate dogs on pubs seats and people who use the TT Forum instead of TripAdviser, it would just be you John. They can probably afford the lost business.
Click to expand...

Nah, knowledge of where not to sit is key. I rarely goto Leeds :wink:


----------



## leopard

Dogs strictly for the floor as far as I'm concerned.Their front end can be just as bad as the arse end  and the smell,wet or dry is a bonus too.
No,just no lol

Cats on the other hand....


----------



## Stiff

leopard said:


> Cats on the other hand....


Cat's are different all together. They just sit where they damn well want  
Not too many in pubs though.


----------



## John-H

Here are two:


----------



## Stiff

Here's another


----------



## John-H

Moments before....










But this does prove that all internet content tends to cats.


----------



## Stiff




----------



## leopard

Stiff said:


>


This is it,they do  ....


----------



## Stiff

leopard said:


> This is it,they do  ....


----------

