# The V8 Monaro arrives from down under - test drive



## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Think back to the last big General Motors coupe sold in the UK. You might have trouble remembering, it was a while ago, and it didn't have a Vauxhall badge - it was the 3.0 litre rear-wheel-drive GS/E Opel Monza. In summary, it was a worthy, if slightly lesser powered and cheaper alternative to the 6 series coupe BMW. Both ended production around 1987 and from then on, Vauxhall didn't bother with the sports-coupe sector (the FWD Calibra was never a sports car).

Your most popular memory of big Vauxhalls will be that of Motorway Police cars - and for good reason. The same 3.0 straight 6 (that started life as a truck engine in Germany) was developed into the 3.0 24v 204PS engine that was so popular with police force Senators. They were capable of big mileages, had plenty of go, and handled well. The engine was further developed, and with twin turbochargers and 600 extra cc, produced 377 bhp for the Lotus Carlton.

Since then, the Omega took over, in various V6 versions, but never in coupe form, and has recently been laid to rest.

But has it? Could it be that it's not going to go quietly, as it's making a comeback in coupe form - and with a monster of an engine under the bonnet.

















I test drove one of the first demonstrator Monaros today, finished in stealth black. Here's the spec:

Chevrolet 5.7 litre all-aluminium V8 engine (from the Corvette) 333 [email protected] 5600rpm 465nm @ 4000 rpm. 6 speed manual gearbox. 0-60 sub 6 seconds, top speed 160 mph + (not limited to 155)

















The interior feels spacious yet cosy (black silver finish) driving position is good, you can just see the bonnet line. Seats are very comfortable, full leather and electrically adjustable in all directions. You press a button and the seat automatically drives forward and then tips to allow passenger access to the rear, there is plenty of room for two adults. Boot is huge. Steering wheel is a nice silver and leather affair, and feels quite chunky with a good grip. Clutch pedal was light, the gearchange lever, a little inprecise.

















The first thing I noticed about this car was how quiet it was. I had to look at the rev counter to see what the engine was doing. The accelerator pedal has a longish throw (a bit like the Boxster) and you need to be gentle going through the gears, until you get the feel. Tyre noise is low, and wind noise seemed non existant (one of my gripes with the Boxster).

The ride quality is good. It's compliant, yet not too soft, firm when it needed to be. Biggest surprise, is the feedback through the steering wheel. The steering is much lighter than the Boxster, yet I could feel road camber change messages through the steering wheel quite easily. It's lower geared though, and it requires a bit of twirling through roundabouts.

With a 5.7 litre V8 with 465nm of torque, I was expecting the car to feel a lot more urgent, and at first I didn't think the car performed much better than the Boxster. That was until I looked at the speedo and noted when I was changing gear. As an indication, it does its 0-62 sprint in first gear. In 3rd and 4th when you floor the pedal, not much seems to be happening (because of the subdued engine note) but you are pushed back into the seat as you watch the speedo rise. I hit the rev limiter a couple of times as I wasn't watching the revs (unlike the Box which doesn't limit until 7k)

So much for acceleration what about retardation? Brakes seemed fine, I was able to haul the car down from ~80 to ~30 with no trouble. There is more servo assistance compared to the Boxster though. Can't say how they'd perform on the track.










(that's a rear brake, the fronts are bigger)

So far, a very competent car. You would not think that you are essentially riding on Omega underpinnings. All the controls feel light and easy to control, with the possible execption of the gearbox (there is an aftermarket 'quick shift kit that cures this) It feels a very chuckable car - and easily adjustable on limit - as Clarkson proved on Top Gear.

The areas in which I think it needs improvement, are some of the easiest to fix. The exhaust note needs to be a little louder, so that you can tell what the engine is doing. And if 330 bhp is not enough - for Â£1300 Linden Special vehicles (they are a Holden independant importer/tuner) can rechip the Chevy V8 and replace the exhaust for a sports version which takes you up to 370 bhp and a 0 - 62 time in the mid 5's. Vauxhall are also bringing out a 'VXR' version in the summer which has uprated suspension, brakes and a body kit and 380 bhp - but it's rumoured to cost Â£36k.

There are a few indications of its Aussie heritage though: No RDS on the Radio/CD unit (they don't have the system in Australia) no sunroof (for obvious reasons) and no Xenon lamps. And the indicator stalk on the _right_ hand side. But it has everything else, and at Â£28k it's a bargain. Dealer says Vauxhall have sold 100 out of the 300 allocation already, and there will only be 300, no more this year.

I see this car as a spiritual successor to the Lotus Carlton - the performance _almost_ matches it, but it uses a larger displacement and simplier engine, and has a coupe body - at last.

All in all, I'm impressed. It offers almost supercar performance, with saloon car ride quality, convenience and comfort. So come on guys, what is you honest opinion of the Holden Monaro? Holden are huge in motorsport in Australia.

Could its biggest problem be the Vauxhall badge?


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## paulb (May 6, 2002)

I drove one in Oz last October. Very impressive piece of kit. Unfortunately, as the VX220 is already showing, proper performance cars with the Vauxhall badge don't bare well in the residual stakes...


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

paulb said:


> I drove one in Oz last October. Very impressive piece of kit. Unfortunately, as the VX220 is already showing, proper performance cars with the Vauxhall badge don't bare well in the residual stakes...


Agreed. Nor do some Porsches ..... but I'm sure most of us here into 'nice cars' primarily do it for the pleasure of the ownership/driving experience .... not for money, otherwise we might as well be driving Peugeot 106's 

The Salesman told me that Vauxhall were not making much money on the Monaro - they are more interested in it as a image marketing tool - and they have had a huge response, so they tell me.

All things considered though, the Monaro is significantly cheaper than my current Boxster is worth (I hope :roll: ) yet offers a good performance leap.

I could use some of the money I save for a holiday in Oz :wink:


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

> ...the Monaro is significantly cheaper than my current Boxster is worth (I hope :roll: )


I should hope so too! However should it prove otherwise then drop me a PM Paul :wink: 

Monaro looks a brute of a car...def' not for me!

Jackie x


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Nice report Paul. It is a lot of car for the money.

The thing is for me that those Volvo C70 coupe and Calibra hybrid looks just don't cut it. It's all a bit 80s, early 90s with a whiff of blue rinse medallian man thrown in.

I am sure it's a hoot to drive and has the Q car thang, but it _is_ going to scare the crap out of anyone for dep'n come trade in time, and the desirability with likely 15-20 mpg consumption, could make it very hard to shift.

Caution required.


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

garyc said:


> Nice report Paul. It is a lot of car for the money.
> 
> The thing is for me that those Volvo C70 coupe and Calibra hybrid looks just don't cut it. It's all a bit 80s, early 90s with a whiff of blue rinse medallian man thrown in.


Mmm... and the Peugeot 406 coupe? Difference is they are FWD and use much smaller engines.

I agree it's hardly a cutting edge design - but it flows. IMHO, It's a lot easier on the eye that a Bangle BMW coupe.

This basic coupe design has been around for years and has evolved into an effecient shape - in terms of aerodynamics, cabin and boot space. So has the 911 shape - except that you have virtually no rear seats and no boot to speak of. And it's a lot more money.

 So Gary - you drive a Diesel estate, albeit a fast one :wink: ,are not into coupes*, and you don't like the new Mini - so what does it, or what is going to do it for you? Yes I know probably a 911 C4. I'll be honest here and say that the 911 shape has never really 'done it' for me. Yes I know it will offer an astounding driving experience (of which I've had a taste of with the Boxster) but I sometimes feel that my Boxster is a little wasted. You need to be driving it hard all of the time to appreciate it.



> I am sure it's a hoot to drive and has the Q car thang, but it _is_ going to scare the crap out of anyone for dep'n come trade in time, and the desirability with likely 15-20 mpg consumption, could make it very hard to shift.
> 
> Caution required.


Indeed.

The other cars on my list are the BMW 330d coupe - fantastic economy and performance, good residuals etc, but _everybody_ has one.

225 TT - remapped to 265 bhp. Stylish and a comfortable cruiser, just sit back and forget all about driver involvement :roll:

My wifes choice is a Merc CLK .....

re - residuals. Is there any truth in the fact that the Monaro should be more 'depreciation resistant' as it is a genuine limited production model? 100 out of 250 are rumoured to be sold already? Any Vauxhall insiders out there have any information? (Thorney :? )

* I tell I lie gary - I know that you are into the Alfa Brera :wink: 8)


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Good points Paul - and I havn't actually seen one in the tin, so I reserve final judgement.

I do like to have a coupe - but they are really womens cars :wink: - so that falls to Mrs C. Porkers being the exception of course. Most other coupes are just plain poofy. I know I have had a few :wink: :wink: :wink:

For my business and general driving the 330D T is the best blend of performance, comfort, driving pleasure and practicality- I have a boat so need to be able to carry skiis etc. It drives better than any Audi A4 variant I have had or driven and there is nothing from the MB stable or Lexus camp that meets the mark. That it is 'obvious' and pisses some other people off because of their parochial view, bothers me none - I 'm sat inside it most of the time.

Would you want to do 30-40K miles a year in a coupe? Didn't think so.

Now I do have a soft spot for Alpha coupes though....and a Brera may not be too poofy. :roll: :wink: 
8)


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Thanks Gary 8) I have no doubts about your choice of the 330D touring - it would probably be my choice in a similar situation, and that's why I'm considering the 330D coupe. Don't forget, I also run a Diesel Tourer :wink: my 405 TD estate  so that kind of offsets the potentially heavy fuel consumption of the Monaro.

So all coupes are poofy (urgh!) well in that case the Brera looks far more 'gay' than the Monaro :wink:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

garyc said:


> Good points Paul - and I havn't actually seen one in the tin, so I reserve final judgement.
> 
> I do like to have a coupe - but they are really womens cars :wink: - so that falls to Mrs C. Porkers being the exception of course. Most other coupes are just plain poofy. I know I have had a few :wink: :wink: :wink:
> 
> ...


Good job the 350z isn't a Coupe, else I'd have to take offence at that remark  It's a butch, manly car, and I'll deck anyone with my handbag who says it isn't 

Actually I'm pretty content to rack up the mileage in it. Easily more comfortable to drive than my Roadster was, and behaves like a Grand Tourer when you want it to


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

PaulS said:


> So all coupes are poofy (urgh!) well in that case the Brera looks far more 'gay' than the Monaro :wink:


The Alpha is a bit of a 'mincer' to the Monaros 'sharing a cell with Bubba'. :wink:

I'd forgotten you too have tractor power, so the Holden thirst would not have to be quenched so often.


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## paulb (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> The Alpha is a bit of a 'mincer' to the Monaros 'sharing a cell with Bubba'. :wink:


Would that be an Alfa, Gary? :wink:

I'll be joining you with diesel power shortly...


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

paulb said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > The Alpha is a bit of a 'mincer' to the Monaros 'sharing a cell with Bubba'. :wink:
> ...


Oops - my head was full of HP Alpha server quotes whilst I typed that 

330cd? Not different, but very _different_ as you will discover...

Tuning Box and Ac Schnitzter/Miltek exhaust takes you to an easy 255hp - plus more torque than a Monaro...


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

garyc said:


> 330cd? Not different, but very _different_ as you will discover...
> 
> Tuning Box and Ac Schnitzter/Miltek exhaust takes you to an easy 255hp - plus more torque than a Monaro...


More torque than a Monaro? 

What are the figures, Gary? and the performance?

I'm thinking about putting a deposit down on a Monaro.

I've posted on www.hsvdriversclub.co.uk as well :wink:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

PaulS said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > 330cd? Not different, but very _different_ as you will discover...
> ...


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

The BMW 330 CD figures are hard to argue with:

204 bhp @ 4000 rpm (~)
410 nm @ 1500 rpm (+) *
0-62 7.2s (~)
50-75 (in 4th) 6.1s (+)
42.8 mpg overall (++)
cost Â£ 32k ( )

Makes you wonder if it's worth buying a M3:

343 bhp @ 7900 rpm (where?!) (-)
365 nm @ 4900 rpm (~)
0-62 5.2s (+)
50-75 (in 4th) 5.3 (+)
23.7 mpg overall (-)
cost Â£41k (-)

How about the 330 CI sport:

231 bhp @ 5900 rpm (~)
300 nm @ 3500 rpm (~)
0-62 6.5s (~)
50-75 (in 4th) 6.9s (~)
30.0 mpg (+)
cost Â£31.5k (~)

How about Audis direct M3 competitor, the 4.2 litre v8 S4 (ScoTTy)

344 bhp @ 7000 rpm ( )
410 nm @ 3500 rpm (+)
0-62 5.6s (+)
50-75 ??
21.2 mpg overall (-)
cost Â£37k (-)

I'm not going to include the RS6 on cost grounds - nearly Â£59k 

The Monaro still looks good:

330 bhp @ 5600 rpm (+)
465nm @ 4000 rpm (+)
0-62 sub 6.0s (+)
50-75 ?? ('fast')
19.6 mpg overall (-)
cost Â£28.5k (++)

* Gary - your tuning box gives a massive increase in torque over the standard 3.0D - from 410 nm (less than the standard Monaro) to 510 nm (!!) Is that an estimated figure? The Linden special vehicles mod for the 5.7 v8 gives an extra 35 bhp (~ 10%) so if I assume the torque rises a similar amount, it should put it at around 510nm, the same as your 330.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

I'm not gonna even try and justify my S4 as it was bought with my heart and not the head. :roll: 

The performance of Gary's car is certainly impressive and it's a hell of an engine - refined, powerful, efficient etc but for me personally I'd always wanted a V8 for the noise, smoothness, performance etc and I've never dreamed of owning a diesel. This meant it didn't enter into my shortlist.

At the end of the day we often buy cars because we're passionate about them and not because they are sensible. If we all did that, we'd all be driving similar cars and that would be really boring.

When I first read about the Monaro it appealed to me but I must admit the badge did put a downer on it. Perhaps I'm a bit of a badge snob but I'd have been keener if it said Holden. The fear of depreciation of a Vauxhall is also quite offputting. Even the superb and popular VX220 seems to be suffering from it.

I'll stop now as it seems I am slipping into justifying my car and that's not the intention. I may go and try the Monaro just so I can do a comparison. :wink:


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## paulb (May 6, 2002)

Yep VX220 depreciates at about twice the rate of an Elise - the power of the badge!


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

PaulS said:


> * Gary - your tuning box gives a massive increase in torque over the standard 3.0D - from 410 nm (less than the standard Monaro) to 510 nm (!!) Is that an estimated figure? The Linden special vehicles mod for the 5.7 v8 gives an extra 35 bhp (~ 10%) so if I assume the torque rises a similar amount, it should put it at around 510nm, the same as your 330.


Pauls, the 515nm figure is from AC Schnitzter and includes exhaust. I just have the TB and the exact Interpro rolling road output numbers after TB was 367ft/lbs which equates to about 510nm torque. Were I to fit the miltek or Schnitzer auspuf, the outputs would probably rise a little more (5%?).

Without the TB, the car does not feel _that_ quick and has far softer throttle reponse. Quite ordinary in fact.

However, as you allude to in your post, many cars with good engines don't always feel that fast when they have a linear power and torque delivery. Boxster S being a good example compared to the more frenetic and noisy on/off power delivery of the TT for example. I had a quick blast in a new Clio 182 at the weekend, and boy it felt quick and urgent. In reality it is no quicker than the 330d, but you'd swear it was due to teh peaky nature and noise. Deffo horses for courses. :wink:

I'd happily settle for an S4 Avant as you just can't beat a chunky high revving V8, and the Audi 4.2 is a sublime lump. But my fuel bill would probably go up by a factor of 2.5X and I would have to have a 100 litre
fuel tank fitted to get any useful range.

Cars that have a range of less than 300 miles on a tank of gas when pressing on, are really of limited use for the higher mileage driver. The circa 200 mile range of the RS4 was a major factor in my selling it. It sort of defeated the object of a fast car if you can't go from Bristol to Bracknell and back without a 10 minute pit stop.

For 'fun' limited mileage motoring I would not go for the diesel. And I think the 911 would fill that gap perfectly, albeit more expensively.

I'd be stuck for a cheaper thrills <Â£30K choice. Spec Cs and CTRs, clio 182s etc would probably be under consideration.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

garyc said:


> PaulS said:
> 
> 
> > * Gary - your tuning box gives a massive increase in torque over the standard 3.0D - from 410 nm (less than the standard Monaro) to 510 nm (!!) Is that an estimated figure? The Linden special vehicles mod for the 5.7 v8 gives an extra 35 bhp (~ 10%) so if I assume the torque rises a similar amount, it should put it at around 510nm, the same as your 330.
> ...


You'd add a 350z to the list when you finally get round to seeing mine


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jampott said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > PaulS said:
> ...


Nah. Far too 'Shemale' for me Tim. :wink: :wink: :wink:

Actually, I harbour none of the 'japcrap' prejuduce that one often sees from the ignorant euro-snobs. I'm not wild about the styling, but have not closed my mind to fact that no one has berated the 350z as a drive _who has actually driven one_ and the owners love them.

S'funny how a lot of folk around have very strong anti-views about particular cars (RX8, TT, Honda Type Rs, 350z, 3 series BMWs all seem to crop up regularly) when it is clear they have never driven them let alone owned or run one for any period. Still, that makes for good debate.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

garyc said:


> PaulS said:
> 
> 
> > * Gary - your tuning box gives a massive increase in torque over the standard 3.0D - from 410 nm (less than the standard Monaro) to 510 nm (!!) Is that an estimated figure? The Linden special vehicles mod for the 5.7 v8 gives an extra 35 bhp (~ 10%) so if I assume the torque rises a similar amount, it should put it at around 510nm, the same as your 330.
> ...


Just checked the TB web site. For the 218hp 3.0d engine in the 5, 7 and latest X5 cars, a TB gives 258hp and *600nm* torque  - which is nice.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

garyc said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > garyc said:
> ...


I'm not wild about the styling either. Its "nice" but there are other cars I prefer  If you count "rarity" and "head turning ability" as a measure of style (rather than styling), it *is* right up there with anything. No doubt it makes people stop and look, which I love... but the actual "pen to paper" design of the car - I've said from day 1, the rear could be better for me 

Its perhaps just a shame that it is the rear end that most people see, as I hoon off into the distance


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jampott said:


> Its perhaps just a shame that it is the rear end that most people see, as I hoon off into the distance


_except that f**king diesel bimmer that you just can't shake off_ :wink:


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Thanks for the replies chaps, some excellent advice as always.

Part of the reason I've kept my Peugeot Diesel is as an insurance policy against buying a 'sensible', new car, to run daily. If I'm working in London and travelling during the core rush hour (6 - 10 am) I often take the Peugeot anyway. Its getting old (N reg) is worth peanuts, it looks quite smart for its age (it scrubs up well) and is actually quite comfortable, and costs little to run @ 41 mpg So there would not be any reason to run two diesels - so that clears the way for something different. Besides, I've had lot of 4 cylinder cars, several straight 6's, one V6, a 4 cyl turbo, and a flat 6, so it's about time I had a V8.

Gary - your point about the range of the car is relevant. The Monaro has a 16.5 gallon tank, so at 20 mpg (which is pretty much what I get from the Boxster) it could do around 300 miles per run.

There are a few other things on the Monaro that need to be considered. The alarm is NOT Thatcham cat1 - so a suitable alarm system (& tracker) would have to be fitted at extra cost. Also, the ICE did not sound that impressive - and not having RDS will be a pain so it will have to be replaced. But there are some nice double-din sized Pioneer/Sony etc Radio/CD and combined DVD player (sat nav) units on the market now for around Â£2000 so it could be a blessing in disguise. May be fit a bespoke hi-fi system?

The only other catch with the Monaro is its limited production. I did not really want to change the Boxster until after the summer (I bought it in July last year so I've already had some good summer motoring) but the Monaro **may** be selling out fast so I would have to order one now, and delivery will be in 2 months or so, so Vauxhall tell me.

I respect your choice of the 911 and i'm looking forward to hearing about it when you get it. Agree on the Clio 172 - great fun car, but there is no way I would go back to one of those.

So the big issue with the Monaro is going to be the badge, and depreciation. How many VX220's are around now, paulb ? But you will not see many Monaros on our roads (this year) They are only selling 300. And vauxhall say they are not making money on them, so will they be as keen to sell another 300 next year?

Whatever ......

I've secured my place in the queue ( I have a build slot) by putting down a deposit on one. Potentially, it could be here at the end of May 

Now does anybody want to try and convince me I should be buying a TT again, which was the conclusion I came to a month ago? :roll:

When is that other Marques meet?


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

ScoTTy - try one. I'd be interested in a second opinion. I suspect it will feel different to your S4 (with a 7k redline) as the Chevy engine works lower down. The interior is smart and functional, but I'm not going to make out that the 'quality' is up to Audi/Porsche standards.

Gary - you say you would not want to travel long distances in a coupe. I found it fine in the TT, as does Tim in his 350Z.

 What is this Shemale homosexual poofy 'thing' you have with coupes? :roll:

May be we need a womans opinion on this - Jackies TT ? :wink:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

PaulS said:


> ScoTTy - try one. I'd be interested in a second opinion. I suspect it will feel different to your S4 (with a 7k redline) as the Chevy engine works lower down. The interior is smart and functional, but I'm not going to make out that the 'quality' is up to Audi/Porsche standards.
> 
> Gary - you say you would not want to travel long distances in a coupe. I found it fine in the TT, as does Tim in his 350Z.
> 
> ...


Paul - the 350z is not a Coupe.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jampott said:


> PaulS said:
> 
> 
> > ScoTTy - try one. I'd be interested in a second opinion. I suspect it will feel different to your S4 (with a 7k redline) as the Chevy engine works lower down. The interior is smart and functional, but I'm not going to make out that the 'quality' is up to Audi/Porsche standards.
> ...


It's a hatchback?


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

This is a fascinating thread, especially as finding a slightly bigger replacement for the TT is quite tricky.

My only problem would be the residuals. Any car with a great big V8 is going to drink the juice, however you drive. Also the car, if only imported at the rate of 300 per year will never be "in demand" You rquire 5000 of a particular model in the UK to have the visibility and recognition necessary to create the demand simply by its existance and familiarity. If Vauxhall want to have any marketing effect they need to shift far more. I'm sure that a part of the VX220 residual woes are not the badge, but lack of numbers to create an image and lifestyle around the product, despite its obvious on-road superiority to an equivalent priced Elise.

All that said I think the interior loks nice, and well finished and the car looks very solid and well put together, if a little conservative. I would check that the Radio aperture is Double DIN, it isn't necessarily.

Good luck Paul, residuals aside, I'd be tempted to follow you.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

PaulS said:


> ScoTTy - try one. I'd be interested in a second opinion. I suspect it will feel different to your S4 (with a 7k redline) as the Chevy engine works lower down. The interior is smart and functional, but I'm not going to make out that the 'quality' is up to Audi/Porsche standards.
> 
> Gary - you say you would not want to travel long distances in a coupe. I found it fine in the TT, as does Tim in his 350Z.
> 
> ...


You will have noted my copious use of :wink: s. Just popping pebbles in the pool to see who bites. :twisted:

BTW The TT was quite the worst motorway car I have run. Too much road and unpleasant engine noise/drone that happen bang on the cruising rpm. One doesn't realise this until one changes car of course...

Having said that I have done motoring trips to France, Spain and Andorra in both the SLK and the Alfa, and they were fine as it's true pleasure motoring with no time hassles and little other traffic 99% of the time.

BUT on a foul wet windy afternoon like today, I'd rather be in a Vectra on the M6 for 200miles, than I would a cramped coupe. Actually, come to think of it, a Monaro (or Merc CL) would fit the bill quite well in this instance.


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

> What is this Shemale homosexual poofy 'thing' you have with coupes? :roll:
> 
> May be we need a womans opinion on this - Jackies TT ? :wink:


LOL, I shall lookforward to reading her "considered" response when she reappears. No doubt it will contain some reference to pulling cats tails and making them growl - seems to be her means of determining a cars performance :roll:

While I don't want to dilute the content of your thread Paul and veer off the Monaro subject, forgive me if I add a couple o' pence worth to the diesel comments on here.

I'm just about to return a new BMW 730d which I have had the pleasure of using for the last 2 weeks.
These modern diesels are a revelation, I was completely taken by surprise with the torque, flexibility and refinement of the engine.
Checking the average consumption on the computer, 35.7mpg! covering around 650 miles of mixed driving (a lot of it in Sport mode)

Diesel tuning seems to be an area with huge development potential, though I have not experienced a "tuned" diesel, let alone this particular unit in a considerably lighter car, I can only guess that they must be pretty spectacular. A 3 or 5 series diesel is looking very tempting.
It's got to be the way to go. Not looking forward to returning to the 735i and high teens consumption.

on topic /
Monaro? I like it. Represents good value and great performance. 
If they keep to their word on bringing in limited numbers I wouldn't see depreciation being a major issue.

"Shemale, homosexual, poofy.." I think I'll sit on the fence thanks!

Dave


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jackiestt said:


> > What is this Shemale homosexual poofy 'thing' you have with coupes? :roll:
> >
> > May be we need a womans opinion on this - Jackies TT ? :wink:
> 
> ...


Lady Boy :wink:


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

jampott said:


> Paul - the 350z is not a Coupe.


 :?: What is it then? A sig pic would help us make up our minds :wink: 

lol @ Dave. Yeah, cats and pussy cats do seem popular with Jackie 

re the Diesel comments - my Pug is just a bit too old to benefit from a tuning box upgrade (the injection system is purely mechanical) but a colleague at work has a later 306 TD to which he has fitted a similar box - they all work *very* well. May be something to consider for the future 

ag - interesting comments - thanks :wink:

Dave - I know you're sitting on the fence :wink: so it just remains for Jackie to comment on the _shemale_ thing 

Is she still looking at Boxsters? 
















Commanding driving position and view - immediately behind the windscreen wiper is the bonnet lip. You just don't get a pair of headlamps to aim with as you do in the Boxster :wink:

By the way .... I've not chosen 'stealth bomber black' as above


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

The 350z is a 2 seater, front mid engined, rwd hatchback sportscar. Or something...

I'd settle on sportscar actually...

It can't be a Coupe on the basis that it only has 2 seats...


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jampott said:


> The 350z is a 2 seater, front mid engined, rwd hatchback sportscar. Or something...
> 
> I'd settle on sportscar actually...
> 
> It can't be a Coupe on the basis that it only has 2 seats...


Ergo a 911 Turbo is _not_ a sports car on account of it having rear seats? OK.

Hmmm splitting hairs me thinketh Tim.

And a spade is really an earth-inverting horticultural object. [smiley=jester.gif]

Parkers, Glasses, Evo and Car magazine all define it as a coupe. Websters say this:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One entry found for coupÃ©.

Main Entry: couÂ·pÃ© 
Variant(s): or coupe /kÃ¼-'pA, 2 often 'kÃ¼p/
Function: noun
Etymology: French coupÃ©, from past participle of couper to cut, strike
1 : a four-wheeled closed horse-drawn carriage for two persons inside with an outside seat for the driver in front
2 usually coupe : a 2-door automobile *often* seating only two persons; also : one with a tight-spaced rear seat

One entry found for sports car.

Main Entry: sports car
Function: noun
: a low small *usually* 2-passenger automobile designed for quick response, easy maneuverability, and high-speed driving 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Will you settle on sports coupe? :wink:


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

..and dn't forget it looks absolutely nothing like a TT :roll: :wink:

PaulS - did you get the drive at Browns in Loughton? If so I'll give them a bell as I'm sure not all Vauxhall dealers have them.


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

PaulS wrote: 


> What is this Shemale homosexual poofy 'thing' you have with coupes?
> 
> May be we need a womans opinion on this - Jackies TT ?


JackiesTT wrote:


> "Shemale, homosexual, poofy.." I think I'll sit on the fence thanks!
> 
> Dave


garyc wrote:


> Lady Boy :wink:


Ahh, so it was you that spoilt Dave's day Gary! 

Anyway this "Shemale, homsexual, poofy" business...difficult to see what useful contribution I can make here. 
I would suggest that as they are all male oriented adjectives, I'll leave you boys to sort it out. You all seem to be doing fine - I'll join "Lady Boy" for a seat on the fence 

Nissan 350z is "Shemale"? - Ouch! Think I would suggest otherwise...Butch? :wink:

PaulS wrote:


> lol @ Dave. Yeah, cats and pussy cats do seem popular with Jackie


It's cats and tails Paul! And what's wrong with that?  
Seems to me to be a perfectly good analogy to describe a cars performance; 
purr = docile = no trouble = I like!
Tug pussy's tail...
grrrr = good = open road = I like!

Think it could make it as the next motoring journo's catchphrase ? :wink:

Steep learning curve for me; all this automotive "techno speak" is a little beyond my comprehension...but I'll get there 

Jackie x


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## justtin (May 6, 2002)

> Nissan 350z is "Shemale"? - Ouch! Think I would suggest otherwise...Butch? :wink:


It's the Nissan FairLady Z in Japan........

Justin


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

> It's the Nissan FairLady Z in Japan........


Oh dear, and there was me trying to sooth a potentially troublesome situation 

J x


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jackiestt said:


> > It's the Nissan FairLady Z in Japan........
> 
> 
> Oh dear, and there was me trying to sooth a potentially troublesome situation
> ...


...and I've run out of 'pink' metaphors for the cars that we all love.


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

> ...and I've run out of 'pink' metaphors for the cars that we all love.


I'd like one in Purple haze (don't go there Gary, don't :wink:  )

Nissan (or Datsun as they were known previously) have always had trouble picking names for their cars - Laurel, Cedric, Cherry, Fairlady - I think they should stick to numbers :wink:

The Vauxhall badge. The message I'm getting from the hsv webs is that this is definately not a Vauxhall. The floorpan may be a generic GM design, but the Monaro and other models have benefitted from many years local development by Holden and TWR (HSV) engineers. Conditions can be tough down under, the car certainly has a sturdy feel about it.

Add a performance exhaust system, and an engine re-map and I'll have a modern day Lotus Carlton coupe 8)



garyc said:


> PaulS said:
> 
> 
> > I'd like one in purple haze (don't go there Gary, don't :wink:  )
> ...



















Holden do some interesting extra colours you can have red or blue leather interiors too..

Purple Haze (smoky charcoal with violet accents); Vespers (dark, inky blue metallic); Devil (highly chromatic solid sports yellow); Hothouse (bright metallic green with brilliant highlights); Quicksilver (sharp silver with brilliant highlights); Red Hot (highly chromatic solid red) and Phantom (metallic black with silver highlights).

Vauxhall aren't doing some of those colours [smiley=deal2.gif] it'd be great if they could do a special order


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

PaulS said:


> I'd like one in purple haze (don't go there Gary, don't :wink:  )


                    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! 
                 

:wink:


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

I'm booked in for a drive in the same Monaro at 15:00 on Saturday. I'll be interested to see how a big rear wheel drive car handles compared with the relative security of the quattros.

Let's see if it lights my fire!


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> I'm booked in for a drive in the same Monaro at 15:00 on Saturday. I'll be interested to see how a big rear wheel drive car handles compared with the relative security of the quattros.
> 
> Let's see if it lights my fire!


I might be able to meet you there


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

_disclaimer: I just got in from the pub_

Is it me or is the thread order acting up a tad ce soir? [smiley=rolleyes5.gif]


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

garyc said:


> _disclaimer: I just got in from the pub_
> 
> Is it me or is the thread order acting up a tad ce soir? [smiley=rolleyes5.gif]


lol!

Something has definately gone astray somewhere!

May be it's due to the 12 hour time difference in Australia :wink:

More likely something to do with me operating a computer [smiley=computer.gif] [smiley=toilet.gif] :roll:


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

PaulS said:


> I might be able to meet you there


Sounds good. :wink:


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

The console where the radio is and all the buttons look so old fashioned.

Also the name...Monaro...it is a VERY close match for a Greek slang word that translates to C*nt.  It would be funny if they sell it in Greece.


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## paulb (May 6, 2002)

Excellent news Paul. A worthy successor to the Monza GS/E. I look forward to seeing a UK spec one.

I think the problem with the VX220 is actually that the turbo has hit the residuals of the 2.2 badly. All the hype the turbo got in the regular motoring press seem to have made people assume that the 2.2 is a poor car. Therefore, 2.2 prices are dropping through the floor. That and Vauxhall dumping the last few at Â£5k below list didn't help much!

As the VXR Monaro is going to be very limited, I don't think you'll have that problem. Now that would be fun line up - A VXR Monaro and a VXR220...

The other problem is that the dealers (even the 'specialists') didn't seem that clued up on aluminium/fibreglass construction and mid engined. Since the Monaro is actually a much 'simpler' car from the engineering point of view I think the dealers should make a better stab at things...

I hope you enjoy it Paul, it'll be good to still have a performance Vauxhall on here!


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Hi Paul 

I'm actually buying the 'standard' 330 bhp Monaro, or CV8, as it's known down under. There is still a question mark as to whether Vauxhall will actually import any of the 380 bhp HSV models - that will be known as VXR's over here. Import numbers were planned to be 250 standard model and just 50 VXRs per year. These models have been worked over by HSV (TWR) racing, and I think have different brakes and suspension, along with a Â£7.5k price hike. The front end has a huge spoiler/splitter below the grille, different wheels and a body kit - I'm not to keen on its looks, to be honest. I prefer the stealth approach of the standard car. And for Â£1315, Linden special vehicles do a stage 1 upgrade (remap, sports exhaust) that adds 35bhp - which brings it almost up to the HSVs output - very good value indeed.

V - the radio might look a bit 'old fashioned' but Vauxhall aren't marketing this car on its luxury fittings - its all about performance, comfort, and value for money. Its actually very nice inside with full leather seating, and will suit me fine. I will be replacing the radio unit with a Kenwood DDX 7025 combined radio/cd/dvd/sat nav unit. I may look into having a tailored amp and speaker solution as well.

Oh, and thanks V, for pointing out what a Greek C*nt is :wink:

Paul (ScoTTy) (too many Pauls on here!) I'll see you at Browns


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## paulb (May 6, 2002)

My understanding is that thw VXR is definitely going ahead


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

paulb said:


> My understanding is that thw VXR is definitely going ahead


Good news 

The mean looking front end of the VXR (in your rear view mirror on the motorway) should raise brand awareness amongst the plethora of BMW and Merc drivers on our roads 

Lets just hope Vauxhall stick to their promise and only import 300. If they were to import more of them as a mainstream model, then I'd guess they'd have to put the price up.

There is a good write up on the Monaro in the 'May' edition of EVO :wink:

Here's Clarksons Top gear reveiw from Dec 2003:

http://www.topgear.com/servlet/tg?DEST= ... er=01.html

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/ne ... 12_hol.htm


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## paulb (May 6, 2002)

I think they'll stick to their word. They certainly are not planning any more that 60 VXR220s (could be my next car...)


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

I popped along to Browns this afternoon to have a look over and a feel for the Monaro. Kate came along to and although she didn't come out in the car she did have some input on the car from a passive point of view...

I don't know the actual dimensions but it seems more like M5 size than M3/S4 size. The amount of room in the back was surprising large. It's definately a four seater not 5 due to rear sports seats but there's loads of leg room although, not surprisingly, the head room is a little tight but quite good for a coupe.
The trim and fit out was better than I had expected although not as soft/finshed as a Merc/BWM/Audi interior. Difficult to put your finger on but somehow not quite as refined.
I thought the shape was quite pleasing with a body kit, (sills, front splitter etc) that are not too in your face but do add a bit of presence. Kate said "it justs looks like another Vauxhall".
It comes loaded with autolights, mirrors, reversing sensors, electric seats/mirrors, dual zone climate, variable power assisted steering, etc, etc.
Sitting in the car the seats the view out the front is unobdstructed and you can just see the bonnet dropping away. The dash has had some effort made on it and I like the idea of having a speedo with just digits and the needle recalibrates when you select MPH or KmPH although I wasn't to keen on the illumination showing which mode it was in. The driving position with the seat and wheel was fine but I found the pedals being offset to the right a little strange. I guess something you get used to.

I was driven out to start with and I was surprised/disapointed how quiet it was. The engine and exhaust virtually silent until it was given some stick and then it was more engine noise than exhaust note. Opening the windows helped but I think it was too understated for the type of car this is. When I got back Kate said she was disappointed with the noise. It just doesn't convey what's under the bonnet. An after market one would definately be the first thing I would do.

It was my turn to drive. The first thing I noticed was how highly sprung the clutch and throttle were. I guess this could either be called slightly industrial or sporty. What didn't fit in was the feel of sponge on top of the brake travel before anything happend.
The gear shift was similarly "sporty". I know that had Kate been in it she would have hated it. It was quite heavy and you have to push it into gear as opposed to clicking it in on the S4.
Once on the move I found the engine power delivery quite different to my 4.2. I was noticeably a bigger capacity engine and this came across as a slightly slower spin up although each rpm carries more torque than each one in the Audi. The red line is at 6000 (vs 7000) but the feel was as the cyclinders and pistons were heavier meaning it was not as easy revving.

I didn't have the opportunity to throw the car around so can't comment on the handling and therefore how much fun the car was. Ideally for a car like this you need a reasonable time for the test drive so you can get used to it and then start to explore the limits. I was still very much in the getting used to it stage. The suspension felt fairly well damped leaning slightly towards comfort rather than sports. It felt tidy and well mannered as you'd expect from a modern car.

In summary it was a better car than I expected. It came across as a heavier muscle car compared to the S4 which seemed almost lightweight after jumping back into. I need to take PaulS out in the S4 so he can compare himself.
I guess one is a refined saloon which has been brought up to a performance level and the other is a big brawny hunk of metal that does things in a more industrial manner. The RWD Monaro will surely be the more fun on the limit but as a car for all uses (shopping to tracking) I'll stick with what I've got.

One thing that has to be said is that the Monaro seems to be blinding value. I'm comparing it with a car about 25% more expensive and Vauxhall are suggesting there's nothing below Â£50k that can compete. There's not a lot that gives so much for this amount of cash. I think I'll go back again when they've got it's bigger brothers in. They haven't converted me (perhaps coz I'm a softy and I like a little more refinement) but I'm sure it's gonna sell out and be a success. 
The only question outstanding is what effect will the badge have? It was interesting to note that the VXR versions won't be badged as Vauxhalls!

Nice car Paul. We'll both have to go out in a couple of months (once you've got the exhaust on) and scare the wildlife into the hedges. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Thanks Paul. It's always good to have a second opinion. That was a very good report, I think I agree with everything you say.

You noticed the two main shortcomings with the car as I did (if that is the right word) - namely that the engine and exhaust are almost too quiet for their own good, and that the gearchange could be better. As you know, there is a sports exhaust that should cure the former problem, and a billet alloy shortshifter kit, that should fix the gearchange.

The interior, and external styling. There is indeed a lot of room in the back - I'm 6'1"- I had no problem with leg room, and my head was just touching the headlining during our test drive. I must admit, I was surprised how _little_ room there is in the back of an S4. I agree on the interior - it's very good with the full leather seating and suede paneling on the doors and transmission tunnel, but it doesn't feel as refined as, say the Mercedes interior, or as 'special' as Audi. I think it needs some extra alloy (or wood) detailing inside to brighten it up a bit. As for the functional layout of the dash, instruments, centre console, gear lever etc it all seemed spot on. We did try the BMW 3 series (we didn't bother with the 5, it is so ugly) I can't say I was particularly moved by the 3s interior, and my wife thought it was ugly.

So it "looks like another Vauxhall" - well, may be, but I really like the big coupe shape, and there ain't nothing else on the market quite like it at the moment. I like the big round brake light reflectors, behind the red lenses, and the two similar clear reverse light and indicator units. I like the little 'kick up' in the rear quarter light, and the muscular rear 'shoulders' of the car. Dare I say it, it looks a little bit Ferrari, from the rear?

I noticed you thought that the brakes felt a little spongy. Possibly, but I didn't think it was too bad, and that's coming from the Boxster, which must have the best brakes of any car on the planet. Agree on the suspension - leaning towards comfort rather than sports. To be honest, this is something I'm quite looking forward to. The Boxster has amazing handling and grip (& steering feedback) but the 'firm' ride, slight scuttle shake, and fidgety steering, on anything but the smoothest of roads, does tire after a while. I'm certainly going to miss having a convertible, but, in retrospect, if I have a convertible again, it will be a lower powered, and softer one. I might consider a 2nd hand TTR 150 :roll: As for going back to a Porsche - I am certainly not ruling it out - the Boxster coupe sounds absolutely ideal. Just as soon as they announce it, I'll be putting a deposit down.

I like your analogy of the Monaro as being a "big brawny hunk of metal / industrial muscle car" But I think things have moved on quite a bit since the heady days of the muscle car era in the USA in the late 60's and early '70's. Holden have done a lot of work to improve the NVH (Noise-Vibration-Harshness) stats on the car - as we agree it felt very civilised and refined on our test drive. It could be quite different though, on a track with that performance exhaust and a boot full of opposite lock.

So after two test drives, I'm still very keen on the car. I like the looks, price, performance, and its rarity could be a bit of a bonus for the future.

Of course all of this could change, when I actually get the car, and live with it in the real world. Time will tell


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

> So it "looks like another Vauxhall" - well, may be, but I really like the big coupe shape, and there ain't nothing else on the market quite like it at the moment.


100% agree. You just need to work on Kate. As demonstrated by the guys in the XR3i with the cherry bomb exhaust - they were staring at the bonnet trying to work out what it was!



> it looks a little bit Ferrari, from the rear?


A little, and I mean a little! :wink: 
There were styling cues from lots of cars including DB7, Nova :twisted:  , Jag, etc.



> I noticed you thought that the brakes felt a little spongy.


Once the slack was taken up they were fine it was just there was a lot of travel before anything happened.



> I like your analogy of the Monaro as being a "big brawny hunk of metal / industrial muscle car" But I think things have moved on quite a bit since the heady days of the muscle car era in the USA in the late 60's and early '70's.


Agreed. I didn't mean it to sound like it was a step back. The comment was meant to be comparitive to the S4. The Monaro is definately a modern car born of the 90's/00's. The fitment and NVH was what surprised me most as they were a big leap over my expectations.

I still can't visualise it in silver. Have you got any piccies?

p.s. Afterwards the dealership guys were still talking to me. They love it to bits and I felt genuinely felt it was the best car out there. I even had a story about a 911 C4 driver who is chopping it in for the Monaro and he said "the handling was a lot better than the Porsche"!
'Cuse me for being sceptical ; it may turn out to be good but "a lot better" is one hell of a claim.


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

PaulS


> Dare I say it, it looks a little bit Ferrari, from the rear?


ScoTTy


> A little, and I mean a little! :wink:
> There were styling cues from lots of cars including DB7, Nova :twisted:  , Jag, etc


I'm thinking about one of the big Ferrari coupes, 575?? it's a long shot, I know, I take off my rose tinted spectacles :wink:

ScoTTy


> I still can't visualise it in silver. Have you got any piccies?


Here is the Holden web site, with a colour configurator.

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/act ... elid=12001

Not all those colours are available for UK cars though:

Devil yellow - no no.
Red hot - mmm, but no, my other car is red, so I don't want two.
Impulse blue metallic - possibly, but I've just had a blue car.

That leaves:

Phantom black metallic - with the black interior, the car is just too ...... black. Plus it's a pain to keep clean. Good for the stealth effect though :wink:

or

Quicksilver metallic. Silver always looks good, and it stays looking cleaner, for longer. Suits the TT coupe really well.

But I would fancy something 'different'. Like I said, I really like the Purple haze (smoky charcoal with violet accents - sounds very exotic) but even that is not generally available in Australia - it's a specific colour for a limited edition Monaro.

What do you rekon, what suits it best?

ScoTTy


> p.s. Afterwards the dealership guys were still talking to me. They love it to bits and I felt genuinely felt it was the best car out there. I even had a story about a 911 C4 driver who is chopping it in for the Monaro and he said "the handling was a lot better than the Porsche"!
> 'Cuse me for being sceptical ; it may turn out to be good but "a lot better" is one hell of a claim.


Well it must have something, if it's attracting Porsche drivers


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Black or silver and as you said that's a lot of black and a pain to clean. Seems like silver is the choice. 8)

So when you're down the pub talking "cubes", will you say you've got a Vauxhall, a Holden or a Pontiac?


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> Black or silver and as you said that's a lot of black and a pain to clean. Seems like silver is the choice. 8)
> 
> So when you're down the pub talking "cubes", will you say you've got a Vauxhall, a Holden or a Pontiac?


Yeah, that's badge engineering for you :roll:

I think I'll just call it the General :wink:

May be I should get a yellow one:


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

For what it's worth the Mrs says it looks better in yellow than black. :roll: 
I'm not so sure.


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