# dual mass Vs solid Flywheel



## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

i am going to be a total blonde bimbo here and ask what the difference is?
it was suggested to me that maybe think about having a lighter solid flywheel......
so can anyone explain the difference pleeease


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## aj1989 (Sep 21, 2010)

as far as im aware dual mass are generally better for stock or lightly tuned cars as the springs within the masses are sized for the engine torque, the dual mass reduces vibration and stress on the drivetrain but solid flywheel is the stronger piece for tuning and although rougher if overloaded its not so much of a worry


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## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

is it right they produce quite a loud noise? the solid fly?


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## aj1989 (Sep 21, 2010)

so ive heard aswell but they do give you more power to the wheels in theory in return


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## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

this is what i am trying to weigh up...... depends how loud the nosie is i guess!!


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## aj1989 (Sep 21, 2010)

yeah its abit of a hard one, ive heard a 1.8turbo golf before with one and it was bad i mean really bad but i think the majority would say the difference is minimal and theyve got used to it. besides mask it with stereo exhausts dv and induction noises 8) id say though seriously if your likely to modify more in the future its worth the single mass, but really you want someone on here with one to speak up


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## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

aj1989 said:


> yeah its abit of a hard one, ive heard a 1.8turbo golf before with one and it was bad i mean really bad but i think the majority would say the difference is minimal and theyve got used to it. besides mask it with stereo exhausts dv and induction noises 8) id say though seriously if your likely to modify more in the future its worth the single mass, but really you want someone on here with one to speak up


been reading up on them and really looks like the way forward.... just wanna hear this noise! my exhaust is pretty damn loud so may drown it out!!
also, my clutch is slipping... will i DEFO need to replace the flywheel? or am i just spening money for the sake of it >?


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## aj1989 (Sep 21, 2010)

k10mbd said:


> been reading up on them and really looks like the way forward.... just wanna hear this noise! my exhaust is pretty damn loud so may drown it out!!
> also, my clutch is slipping... will i DEFO need to replace the flywheel? or am i just spening money for the sake of it >?


youtube for noise theres bound to be a video there, on your exhaust do you have an upgraded downpipe?

yes if you change the clutch and release bearing you should always resurface or replace the flywheel ideally and since both require major work it makes financial sense to change both as labour costs are high if you had to 'go back in there' unless your doing it yourself, if youve got the money id upgrade both but atleast replace the clutch and resurface the flywheel


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## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

i have had a look on youtube...can't find much :? 
no downpipe yet but its in the plans.
cheers for your help!


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## aj1989 (Sep 21, 2010)

k10mbd said:


> i have had a look on youtube...can't find much :?
> no downpipe yet but its in the plans.
> cheers for your help!


nah i cant find anything either well only diesel videos

noticed your thing says kent, i got my downpipe sports cat and new tailpipes done at powerspeed in ashford i can recommend them for when you get one


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## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

hehe i got mine done at powerpeed too 
they have done the catback, then decat, going for the downpipe soon ( i did it all ass about face lol)
i have been telling everyone on here how good they are!! but no one seems go go to em ! :?


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## aj1989 (Sep 21, 2010)

k10mbd said:


> hehe i got mine done at powerpeed too
> they have done the catback, then decat, going for the downpipe soon ( i did it all ass about face lol)
> i have been telling everyone on here how good they are!! but no one seems go go to em ! :?


its a shame as they love doing tt/s3/golf downpipes :roll: haha its a pig of a job when i was looking around when it was std and when theyd finished i realised that although the turbo and manifold access isnt too bad the downpipe was unreal! i think if we all went there theyd ban us!


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## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

hahaha they love it really!!! most of them are good friends of mine so i sweet talk em haha!
i wish more people would consider going there tbh.... they are good  i think neil was thinking about it, as he spoke to them at the tunnel run i did.... then after seeing the flames and hearing mine pop he was quite impressed with it.... he should get one


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## denimblue225turbo (Aug 28, 2009)

only thing solid flywheel conversions should be put on are Transits, heavy pedal, loud and not designed for the TT. Its not 100% that you will need a new dual mass, it would have to be checked when replacing but by the time you have paid for a solid conversion its not much cheaper than replacing a dual mass and you will never replace your dual mass again because they last about 80,000 plus miles so it will out last your car or for atleast how long you have it for


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## aj1989 (Sep 21, 2010)

denimblue225turbo said:


> only thing solid flywheel conversions should be put on are Transits, heavy pedal, loud and not designed for the TT. Its not 100% that you will need a new dual mass, it would have to be checked when replacing but by the time you have paid for a solid conversion its not much cheaper than replacing a dual mass and you will never replace your dual mass again because they last about 80,000 plus miles so it will out last your car or for atleast how long you have it for


dual mass are more delicate though as said the springs within them are torque sized if she went for some heavy modifying later it wouldnt cope


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## denimblue225turbo (Aug 28, 2009)

if she goes for heavy performance mods she wont be using a standard clutch at all so that theory goes out the window, trust me I know enough about clutches and flywheels.


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## aj1989 (Sep 21, 2010)

denimblue225turbo said:


> if she goes for heavy performance mods she wont be using a standard clutch at all so that theory goes out the window, trust me I know enough about clutches and flywheels.


i apologise, with your extensive experience my opinion must immediately be incorrect :wink:


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## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

denimblue225turbo said:


> if she goes for heavy performance mods she wont be using a standard clutch at all so that theory goes out the window, trust me I know enough about clutches and flywheels.


so when i get a new clutch and flywheel next week i should go dual mass?

i was more intersted in the solid as it lighter etc... not toooo bothered about the noise, just the drive really


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## denimblue225turbo (Aug 28, 2009)

Well i work for one of the biggest automotive company's in the country and have done for a long time, my 'experience' probably out weighs forum guess work :wink:


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## denimblue225turbo (Aug 28, 2009)

You wont replace the clutch and dual mass again while you own the car so why comprise for an uncomfortable noisy ride?
That's my only point, its your car and your money, i'm just saying i wouldn't do it personally.


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## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

what about the "extra power" to the wheels ? or is this a load of pooop?


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## denimblue225turbo (Aug 28, 2009)

erm....yeah, otherwise every man and his dog would be doing it


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## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

denimblue225turbo said:


> erm....yeah, otherwise every man and his dog would be doing it


oh... i read that a lighter flywheel means slightly more power to the wheels :?


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## Adam-tt (Apr 3, 2010)

Not sure if its any help but this is the cheapest place to get the dual mass and clutch kit from 
http://www.buypartsby.co.uk/


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## Fictorious (Sep 15, 2009)

k10mbd said:


> denimblue225turbo said:
> 
> 
> > erm....yeah, otherwise every man and his dog would be doing it
> ...


It reduces inertia so in essence do increase power but marginally, the negatives usually outweighs the positives though.


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## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

is there anyone on here with a solid flywheel?


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## denimblue225turbo (Aug 28, 2009)

any gain would be minimal, the only real difference in operation is that the dual mass was designed to eliminate the torsional vibration caused by the engine and therefor is quieter and lighter than a solid. Of course if your going for 500bhp then longer lasting organic high performance clutches and aluminum flywheels would be recommended


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## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

is there a difference between clutches and flywheels that fit the 180 and the 225?


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## Adam-tt (Apr 3, 2010)

pretty sure the 225 is bigger in size


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## kazinak (Mar 23, 2010)

adam-tt said:


> pretty sure the 225 is bigger in size


 both are 240mm


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## steveupton (Mar 23, 2010)

Don't think anyone's mentioned that DMFs give a smoother clutch operation with a less fierce bite as well as a smoother drive line.


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## Adam-tt (Apr 3, 2010)

kazinak said:


> adam-tt said:
> 
> 
> > pretty sure the 225 is bigger in size
> ...


why are there ones listed on ebay for the 180 and they are 225mm :?


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## kazinak (Mar 23, 2010)

adam-tt said:


> kazinak said:
> 
> 
> > adam-tt said:
> ...


because ebay people know shit about tt 

http://www.part-box.com/helix-clutch-kit-for-audi-tt-1.8t-quattro-180-225bhp-1998-2006-p-15695.html


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, According to "Bentley" manual, clutch disc on 180 & 225 Quattro is 240mm, 180 FWD is 219mm.
Hoggy.


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## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

cheers guys


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## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

so have decided to go for solid flywheel, just looking online for a clutch and solid flywheel conversion kit... for 225.. they all seem to be 150 or 180 :S not sure why :?


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## Adam-tt (Apr 3, 2010)

£103 without vat on the website i posted comes with slave cylinder too and genuine audi part


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2011)

k10mbd said:


> so have decided to go for solid flywheel, just looking online for a clutch and solid flywheel conversion kit... for 225.. they all seem to be 150 or 180 :S not sure why :?


lol. This should be good  [smiley=freak.gif]


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## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

manphibian said:


> k10mbd said:
> 
> 
> > so have decided to go for solid flywheel, just looking online for a clutch and solid flywheel conversion kit... for 225.. they all seem to be 150 or 180 :S not sure why :?
> ...


?


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## T3RBO (Dec 9, 2003)

A solid flywheel gives a heavier clutch pedal with more vibration and rattle on idle. plus puts extra strain on the gearbox.


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2011)

k10mbd said:


> manphibian said:
> 
> 
> > k10mbd said:
> ...


well, no offence but you seem to attract drama, and you asked for advice, and ignored it all....


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## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

adam-tt said:


> £103 without vat on the website i posted comes with slave cylinder too and genuine audi part


 thats just for the clutch kit isn't it? or am i being dumb? lol quite likely!


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## Adam-tt (Apr 3, 2010)

just for the LUK clutch kit


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## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

manphibian said:


> well, no offence but you seem to attract drama, and you asked for advice, and ignored it all....


drama? i asked a question :?

i asked for advice... i got it... 
i thought about it along with the advice from other people 
(and other posts on this site about solid flywheels) 
... and i made a decision...


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## KimTT (Jul 12, 2009)

? this one ? http://www.buypartsby.co.uk/clutch-parts-buy.php
its the flywheel i am having trouble finding


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## basky (May 26, 2009)

Why not just stick with the Oem clutch replacement like stated before it's good for over 300bhp ? Save yourself some money, money that can be spent on your next mod :roll:.


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## Adam-tt (Apr 3, 2010)

solid flywheel and clutch you can get for around £200 where the standard clutch and dual mass is around £400 from buy parts by


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## denimblue225turbo (Aug 28, 2009)

adam-tt said:


> just for the LUK clutch kit


not going to fit a solid flywheel though is it [smiley=bomb.gif] 
LUK make the O.E clutch and dual mass, why would they make a product thats the opposite to what they have spent millions of pounds designing, think that be a waste of there time, much like this forum it seems.


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## alun (Aug 2, 2010)

ok i dont really know what a dual mass is, but surely putting a lighter flywheel on is going to reduce the rotating mass and put less strain on the engine? thus putting more of the power to the wheels?

and if shes going for more power in the future a sports clutch of some sort may be needed.

only advice i have from having uprated clutches on previous cars.. is that they are a nightmare in traffic.. very off and on without much of a biting point. so a bit harsh on drive train.. ie gearbox and drive shafts.


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2011)

alun said:


> ok i dont really know what a dual mass is,


probably should have stopped there


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## alun (Aug 2, 2010)

manphibian said:


> alun said:
> 
> 
> > ok i dont really know what a dual mass is,
> ...


hahahaha yeah probably


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Changing the weight of the flywheel will change the characteristics of the car. If your flywheel is light it will be more free-revving. It's less effort to spin it, and it won't stay spun up for as long. Which generally means you have to change gear quicker before it looses oomph. Pain in the arse for a daily driver.


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

k10mbd said:


> is there anyone on here with a solid flywheel?


Yes me. I have a Helix uprated clutch with single mass flywheel. here's my observations and experiences after running it for nearly 2 years.
1/ Yep its a bit noisy I guess. However only when the car is at tick over stationary. You could compare the sound to that of a quietish diesel engine. From what I understand the loudness varies from car to car.

2/ Despite what others have said on here my clutch is no heavier than an OEM one and operates no differently being smooth and without any sudden bite.

3/ Would I fit it again? An unreservedly Yes.

Hope the above helps

Posted from some body who actually has a single mass flywheel and been running one for sometime.


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

Dash said:


> Pain in the arse for a daily driver.


Certainly not my experience with my Helix clutch. Drives similar to my old OEM clutch in all respects.


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

^^^^^^ Wonders if half the people posting and offering advice and opinions have ever driven a car with a single mass fly wheel clutch esp a TT and esp the Helix one. :roll: or are they just [smiley=book2.gif]


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## Jelvy (Jan 9, 2011)

Ive just bought and fitted a kit from techniclutch consisting of a solid flywheel, clutch plate by Luk and a modified Luk housing and a new slave cylinder for £595 delivered through eBay. I bought new stretch bolts and seals where applicable from Audi and put new oil and molyslip n the gearbox. I put on a poly dog bone bush also. The Clutch is lighter than my old one (probably due to the new cylinder and fluid) but due to being on a single mass flywheel its certainly more bitey but not by any means nasty. Just different to what you're used to in the tt. It does however make the gearbox a little rattly (maybe the new oil is thinner than what it had before and isn't helping). Its not as bad when its warm and only really noticeable when revving fast from idle to 3000 rpm but it could be the poly mount amplifying the rattle through the subframe so a new Audi bush is what I'm going to fit next week and see if it helps. It the noise dosent quiet down more in the next few weeks I'm contemplating a little oil treatment to see if that will help (gearbox has done 104k miles but was quiet with the dual mass flywheel and old dog bone rubber) . I will try and get a video up of the noise and a pic of the flywheel in the next few days but if anybody else could get a video up of there's I Think it would settle the post by letting people make up their own mind!

Cheers
Jay


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## thomasl (Oct 17, 2009)

les said:


> Dash said:
> 
> 
> > Pain in the arse for a daily driver.
> ...


So - and excuse me if it is a stupid question - what are the benefits of this clutch and single mass flywheel for a daily driver? Is it just higher torque rating?

Thanks,
Thomas


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## y3putt (Mar 29, 2008)

Kim..

I posted this very question a while back before I had my clutch done...

I think Les is spot on with his comments because he actually has one fitted... Soooo.. you now have tried and trusted opinions on both clutches..Your own and Les's on the solid flywheel..

But... another option ..which Sav 240 has just had fitted..is the Sachs clutch for the dual mass flywheel.. so PM him and ask his opinion on that...then you have info on all 3 that can be fitted..so you can then make your own mind up..

Mark..


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## SAVTT240 (Mar 29, 2009)

)HI KIM,

Sorry just seen this thread, mark is right i had a sachs race/rally/sprint organic fitted to my dual mass by APS. It does still feel like oem, quiet (with clutch pedal up or down) & smooth in operation, excellent biting point & good for 400 bhp :wink: 

I go down santa pod quite a bit & i really wanted something a bit more substanial than oem but did not want to go to the single flywheel as whatever anyone says they are noisier & the pedal must feel slightly heavier (was told this by people who had single/solid flywheels).

Understand what les is saying & am glad he's happy with his, but as he also say's it does vary from car to car.

Decision is yours & again depends on how far your going with the tt (ie mods wise) & what you actually want to do with the car ? (ie track days, sprints, just normal driving :lol: )

SAV..


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## hasoon0 (Jun 11, 2009)

Hey I've just collected my car today from Amd with a helix sports clutch and single mass flywheel. I feel it's gained a noticeable amount of torque and is quicker.. It does make a slight chatter at idle, but to me the drive compensates


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

thomasl said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> > Dash said:
> ...


I am on Revo stage 2 with 3" DP Blueflame exhaust with 100cell sports cat. My clutch failed at just under 100k miles and I was advised by Awesome to upgrade it give my extra torque. As a daily standard car drive or even a stage 1 map there will be no real benefit to be gained. My clutch is now much more robust and should now last the life of the car.


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

hasoon0 said:


> Hey I've just collected my car today from Amd with a helix sports clutch and single mass flywheel. I feel it's gained a noticeable amount of torque and is quicker.. It does make a slight chatter at idle, but to me the drive compensates


+1


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

k10mbd said:


> denimblue225turbo said:
> 
> 
> > erm....yeah, otherwise every man and his dog would be doing it
> ...


Erm not true... mine is stock clutch and whipped les's arse and spens arse who are both on helix solid flywheels...

The thing you have to understand is also the noise you hear is infact the gearbox, and not the flywheel now someplaces will tell you to overfill and it will be quieter... but would you overfill your engine with oil???? I've also been advised that whilst you may gain some extra BHP (although rolling road says otherwise) you will lose torque with a solid flywheel...

I belive a saches clutch kit is perfect to go with a stock flywheel and will give upto 400BHP, (more than us lot can throw at it !!!)


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

les said:


> Yes me. I have a Helix uprated clutch with single mass flywheel. here's my observations and experiences after running it for nearly 2 years.
> 1/ Yep its a bit noisy I guess. However only when the car is at tick over stationary. You could compare the sound to that of a quietish diesel engine. From what I understand the loudness varies from car to car.
> 
> 2/ Despite what others have said on here my clutch is no heavier than an OEM one and operates no differently being smooth and without any sudden bite.
> ...


Les,

you really should read that... what you have said is it's noisy but operates exactly like a stock clutch, and you'd fit it again... To some people who may not know, les isn't the best at hearing... and i must say I hate the noise his makes... it sounds like the gearbox is chattering away ready to blow the diff inside... (he knows this i've told him) to someone who listens to car it does sound like the car is broken... when infact it isn't... may make for future diagnosis of problems difficult also....

in relation to the power..... hmmmm les, my TT kicks your arse up and down awesomes rollers and i have a stock clutch :roll: even with your fancy clutch you (who at the time had exactly the same mods as me) was alot less than me.... TRUE or FALSE?

Now i know you didn't run this year, but has spen got the same clutch, and myself and bigsyd had higher figures.... TRUE or FALSE....

so the moral of the story based on rolling roads is that the clutch doesn't give anything... it might give something on the gearchanges in a road senario... but i'd like to be able to tell if my turbo bearings are making a noise and not constantly be ignoring noises that sound like somethings wrong !!!!

To all those people who say... I noticed a massive difference and increased power.... hmmmmm, i'm tempted to ask are you really that daft? ofcourse your going to notice a difference... you've not changed your clutch because it's shinny and new and doesn't slip... you've changed it because it's slipping... therefore not putting the powerdown... to come along and say it's given me more power is just not accurate... it's a clutch thats stopped slipping... you've gone from a failed clutch which can't put the power down to one that had.... I could say the same.... i got a massive power increase when i fitted my stock clutch.... mainly because the other was buggered... and i'm running 282BHP and 370lb/ft... and my OEM clutch is fine... now if you've got more BHP and Torque than me... then maybe you need to look at a better clutch and keep the dual mass, rather than a solid flywheel.... (oh and i'll let you guys know when mines starts slipping again... 30k in on it and still no slip)


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> k10mbd said:
> 
> 
> > denimblue225turbo said:
> ...


Oi! :lol:


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> > in relation to the power..... hmmmm les, my TT kicks your arse up and down awesomes rollers and i have a stock clutch :roll: even with your fancy clutch you (who at the time had exactly the same mods as me) was alot less than me.... TRUE or FALSE?
> ...


I have the same Revo stage 2, 3" DP, Blueflame exhaust, 100 cell sports cat. In addition to them you also have a FIM, Forge uprated actuator (I had one and removed it in the interest of safety to my new engine). You also had your Revo fine tuned on the RR. So you are not comparing like for like but I don't believe my clutch would make much difference. Did I say my clutch gave me more power? :? I didn't renew my clutch with a Halex to release more power I renewed it with one to try and make sure it would last the life of the car something you can't be sure of with a standard clutch running such power and torque. Maybe your stock clutch will last as long as your car then again ........


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

Par example.....http://www.********.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=185983&hilit=+NW+ROlling+ROAD+DAY

I'm not having a pop les, i just really do think it's aload of hype about nothing... apart from a rattle... i suppose if you came and ran at santapod, then maybe i'd see it was worth it and it does deliver the power much quicker and that would be reflected in the 1/4times.... but until then i see no reason for it... mines doing fine... and if i did do it... i think i'd have to stick with dual mass... (maybe sav's route)


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

les said:


> I have the same Revo stage 2, 3" DP, Blueflame exhaust, 100 cell sports cat. In addition to them you also have a FIM, Forge uprated actuator (I had one and removed it in the interest of safety to my new engine). You also had your Revo fine tuned on the RR. So you are not comparing like for like but I don't believe my clutch would make much difference. Did I say my clutch gave me more power? :? I didn't renew my clutch with a Halex to release more power I renewed it with one to try and make sure it would last the life of the car something you can't be sure of with a standard clutch running such power and torque. Maybe your stock clutch will last as long as your car then again ........


Les matey... i was using you as an example to a post a few pages back saying "the torque and power is more with a solid" wasn't directed at you... and we haven't done a rolling road on the new revo's yet... we all have done it individually... i was refering to the APR days when we first all had blueflames done...

But matey... your clutch is bomb proof..and will last longer than mine..... it's the gearbox failing i'd be concerned about...and i will guarentee you my gearbox will last longer....

I will have to change my clutch again... i'm aware of that... and happy with that... but if a clutch pad such as sach can do 400BHP with a dual mass, which is better for the car... why would i put in a helix... and also how many people have said my clutch would be fried at this torque, and now 30k in it's still fine....


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## petesky (Jul 24, 2002)

I guess Kim has made her mind up but from my reading of the situation:


Costs to buy/fit about the same.
SMF absorbs less power therefore letting more power through (but no empirical evidence of this yet).
SMF has potentially got a longer life.
SMF can handle a bit more power.
DMF is quieter and smoother with the gearbox.
DMF should be good for >=90k miles.
DMF is the OEM choice.

Sorry if I have anything wrong. I will be looking for a new clutch in the future and not even sure I'll bother with a new flywheel but found this thread interesting.

Peter


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> > I have the same Revo stage 2, 3" DP, Blueflame exhaust, 100 cell sports cat. In addition to them you also have a FIM, Forge uprated actuator (I had one and removed it in the interest of safety to my new engine). You also had your Revo fine tuned on the RR. So you are not comparing like for like but I don't believe my clutch would make much difference. Did I say my clutch gave me more power? :? I didn't renew my clutch with a Halex to release more power I renewed it with one to try and make sure it would last the life of the car something you can't be sure of with a standard clutch running such power and torque. Maybe your stock clutch will last as long as your car then again ........
> ...


Well my gearbox has done 125k now and there are cars running standard who's gearbox has failed before now. So if my gear box did fail then 125k isn't bad anyway and who is to say my clutch would be at fault. Yeah sure the clutch may add something to the stress but I was assured it's nothing the gearbox can't handle. Awesome informed me they have fitted loads of Helix clutches without a single gearbox failing and I think that says something about the clutch and the robustness of the gearbox.


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

les said:


> Well my gearbox has done 125k now and there are cars running standard who's gearbox has failed before now. So if my gear box did fail then 125k isn't bad anyway and who is to say my clutch would be at fault. Yeah sure the clutch may add something to the stress but I was assured it's nothing the gearbox can't handle. Awesome informed me they have fitted loads of Helix clutches without a single gearbox failing and I think that says something about the clutch and the robustness of the gearbox.


Wasn't that Exactly the same as what was said about actuator but ya still took that off long delivery


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## Neb (Oct 25, 2007)

I didn't end up reading this thread but I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. I had to change my flywheel about a year ago and opted to go for a single mass (22lb) one. I was told it would be heavy enough to avoid chattering. 9 hrs labour later after getting a shop to fit it, it chatters like a bitch. I hate it. I thought it would be a good mod to do as my motto has always been to upgrade whatever it is I have to replace but I really wish I had stuck with a dual mass OEM flywheel. It's loud enough that people on the street can hear it clear as crystal. I often push my clutch pedal in when I'm at stop lights so I dont' have to hear the sound. So unless you desperately need one, I'd advise against


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> > Well my gearbox has done 125k now and there are cars running standard who's gearbox has failed before now. So if my gear box did fail then 125k isn't bad anyway and who is to say my clutch would be at fault. Yeah sure the clutch may add something to the stress but I was assured it's nothing the gearbox can't handle. Awesome informed me they have fitted loads of Helix clutches without a single gearbox failing and I think that says something about the clutch and the robustness of the gearbox.
> ...


Na not at all. I didn't take the actuator off I just didn't transfer it to the new engine for reasons you know about. I kept the clutch as it was relatively new and being on stage 2 it was insurance (and you also know) against a SH OEM clutch failing. Why would I not want to transfer my uprated clutch that I am pleased with and my bet it would be in far better condition than the used one plus should last much longer?


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

les said:


> Na not at all. I didn't take the actuator off I just didn't transfer it to the new engine for reasons you know about. I kept the clutch as it was relatively new and being on stage 2 it was insurance (and you also know) against a SH OEM clutch failing. Why would I not want to transfer my uprated clutch that I am pleased with and my bet it would be in far better condition than the used one plus should last much longer?


Les your arguing a point for one thing... (the actuator)... and arguing the same point from the other side for something else (the clutch)

Your engine blew up because of a valve... in doing so you cannot afford another big payout so left the actuator off.. (even though it was a valve inside the engine, well away from the turbo) Yet you leave a clutch on that makes the gearbox chatter and requires overfilling of the gearbox to quieten it down so it's not supidly loud....all be it with no consideration that the next bill may possibly be gearbox....Would you overfill you engine oil les? stick 5.5 liters in a see what happens !!! same with gearbox mate...

You either want to make the car safer and last longer.. or you want to continue straining the parts... no point arguing the toss for your unbalanced flywheel which causes the gearbox to chatter and wobble meaning more wear on seals and also metal fatigue.. and then say in the same breath oooooh i better remove the actuator as i don't want to spend any money on fixing it again....

It's hipocritical to say the least... either stick by the fact "performance ans stress is fine" or "demod and go stock" your clutch as the helix is.. Better still find out why they stopped doing their counterbalance for the noisy single plate fly wheel.... The reason... NOBODY BOUGHT ONE BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO STRIP THE GEARBOX DOWN TO BALANCE OUT THE SHAFT TO STOP THE NOISE.... you add a gearbox rebuild with a counterbalance to the price of the clutch and fitting and you can see why nobody bought it... your set up is half a job that puts undue strain on a gearbox for no reason... (the gearbox oil seals, will contaminate the clutch long before it wears out meaning a new clutch)


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

Shall we post direct from Helix....

http://www.helix-autosport.com/sporting.asp


> They can Induce judder on initial take and if used with 4wd systems can suffer from high wear rates when used in ROAD APPLICATIONS


Sounds like it'll wear out quicker than stock anyway... :roll:

and lets be honest you get what you pay for:-

Dual mass which balances with the gearbox
http://www.clutchcityonline.com/products/17-059.shtml at $498.98

Single Fly Wheel which catters the gearbox's teeth out
http://www.clutchcityonline.com/products/17-071.shtml at $379.98

like i said you get what you pay for...


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

Tony give it a rest mate as suggested above. You didn't really expect me to ditch my expensive clutch in a favour of a OEM used one with god know who many miles left. :roll: At the end of the day its my choice nobody else's. Ring Awesome and ask them how many gearboxes they have had fail due to the Helix clutch. You are putting so much torque thought you great box engine and clutch yourself any of which could fail due to it. BTW want to borrow a helmet but it might be too small for you :wink: People are tiring of this and so am I mate so end of.


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> Shall we post direct from Helix....
> 
> http://www.helix-autosport.com/sporting.asp
> 
> ...


Yawnnnnnn and you paid for an OEM clutch :roll:


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

les said:


> BTW want to borrow a helmet but it might be too small for you :wink: People are tiring of this and so am I mate so end of.


No mate I got a helmet, Had it at castle comb last year too... otherway round though mate... my head is seriously tiny... my helmet is a small !!!


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

les said:


> Yawnnnnnn and you paid for an OEM clutch :roll:


Not talking about the clutch... there's bugger all special about helix's clutch pad anyway, it's organic.. if you had fitted a helix clutch kit then fine, it's the fly wheel which is naff... a helix clutch on a dual mass fly would be brilliant...

and i didn't replace my flyweel at the time as it was in torralance... and 30k on and with the car on 113k it's still fine... suppose it's because it's expensive... dual mass flywheels aren't cheap thats probably why they last so long


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## Neb (Oct 25, 2007)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> > Yawnnnnnn and you paid for an OEM clutch :roll:
> ...


Dual masses are expensive because they're sold through Audi and are a 50lb chunk of metal :roll:


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Thought I'd add my thoughts to this as we do get caught in the middle.

To start with Helix Clutches, since 2006 we have sold 70 of the single mass conversions on both 2wd and 4wd applications. We have never had to replace a single one due to it either wearing out or failing. Also I have never had a failure of a single gearbox with an up rated clutch kit fitted! I have seen some stuff on various forums blaming them and explaining why however I just can't see it and have never had a problem.

As for the flywheels being "NAFF" as someone I know very well has eloquently put it are supplied from Fidanza in the states and are just about the highest quality available and are world renowned for being so.

As for performance gains due to the reduction of rotational weight the cars do seem more sprightly as they rev quicker and can gain a few extra bhp (same as the Neuspeed power pulleys), this is usually counteracted by the loss of a couple of lbs of torque. (Go to the extreme and look at a top fuel drag car, they will accelerate as fast as they can rev. Increase the speed the engine can rev at and you will go faster)

As for the noise; I HATE IT, I HATE IT, I HATE IT!

The reason for the noise is cheap manufacturing costs, the gearboxes are made with much lower tolerances these days and when you remove the dual mass flywheel this takes weight off the output shaft in the gearbox and highlights just how slack the boxes are (clatter clatter clatter). Apparently you can reduce the noise considerably by adding about an extra half liter of gearbox oil.

We all want our cake and eat it. Yes? I know I do! All of the benefits and none of the compromise!

Options - There is plenty of choice so whatever suits you best!

We supply the Helix kit's as they are really good and you don't even need any increased effort on the pedal, down side you get the chatter and quoting Les it's like an old grandfather clock, does your head in at 1st but after a short while you don't even notice it! Oh and they are a good price.

Up rated Sachs clutch kit with an up rated DMF. Pretty much the best you can get but with a price tag to match, gives me an achy leg in traffic too!

Helix up rated clutch with a new OE quality LUK flywheel, probably the best compromise in my eyes, a really good performance clutch retaining the DMF, no noise, no extra effort. Just can't say how long it would last (the DMF that is)!

Good quality OE clutch and DMF. Mapped cars take these well above their specified range! However I know quite a few people running stage 2 + cars giving them a hard time day in day out who have not had any problems! On the flip side of that there are other people who have killed them in less than 2000 miles. My opinion, this option you pay your money you take your chance!

This is my opinion from all my years doing my best in my job trying to ensure you all only spend your hard earned on what's best for you, the last thing I want is to waste anyone's time or money and I'd like to think there are quite a few people on here that can vouch for that!

Best regards John


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

AwesomeJohn said:


> Thought I'd add my thoughts to this as we do get caught in the middle.
> 
> To start with Helix Clutches, since 2006 we have sold 70 of the single mass conversions on both 2wd and 4wd applications. We have never had to replace a single one due to it either wearing out or failing. Also I have never had a failure of a single gearbox with an up rated clutch kit fitted! I have seen some stuff on various forums blaming them and explaining why however I just can't see it and have never had a problem.
> 
> ...


 Thanks John, that clears up quite a few issues that I never had :lol: 
Like you say you pays your money and takes your pick. When my OEM clutch failed at 90k I considered all the options put to me by Awesome (Andy at the time) weighed up the pros and cons and with assurances that there would be little issue with gearbox wear/failure (of course you couldn't guarantee it with a gearbox that had done 90k) and given that the price was a bit more than £100 over an OEM clutch I went for the Helix with single mass. My clutch has been on now for 15months and covered 14,000 miles so its so far so good. Now that's not to say the gearbox won't fail at some point but then it has done 125,000 miles and outlasted my engine. :roll:


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## Stub (Mar 17, 2005)

I am looking at a new clutch as mine is slipping, only slips when it boosts and at pull away with hand brake on it will not slip,

Mine is a Sachs organic, its only done 15k so not happy I need to change!
I changed when I stepped up my torque, the bite is sharp and great to use, it smalls like S**t when you slip it like reversing up a drive or pulling away hard, it has smelt from new bad..

I think I will get a standard again, shame I like the feel of this one!


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## AudiTT180coupe (Aug 8, 2012)

Ok, I'm new and I read every post. Now I have a couple questions.
Noise not being an issue I would like to go SMF, but I have a 02 Quattro 180 5 speed does this meen I can run the same cluth flywheel setup as a FWD 180? Or did I miss a key point?
G60 /Vr6 is only listed as FWD compatible but nobody elaborated on this that I saw. 
Thank you in advance for help and advice.
( I'm planning a 350hp- 400hp build so I do need a more powerful setup )
Ps I know stock rods are only good tell 300HP I plan on eagle h beams.


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## stevefeldon (Mar 29, 2013)

k10mbd said:


> denimblue225turbo said:
> 
> 
> > if she goes for heavy performance mods she wont be using a standard clutch at all so that theory goes out the window, trust me I know enough about clutches and flywheels.
> ...


I upgraded my 2002 mk1 225tt about 18 months ago with stage 2 re map, piper cross induction kit, milltek exhaust and oh, a dump valve for the sound. I was told it was pushing around the 295 bhp mark and it sure feels like it. The outcome however was slight clutch slip on full boost so I upgraded to a black diamon stage 2 clutch and on the suppliers advice also a solid flywheel. Got it back from the technicians who fitted the clutch and flywheel and I thought they had done something seriousely wrong. There is a slight rattle like a release bearing when warm which stops when you clutch down but my main concern was a vibrating noise and feeling on the over run when you decellerate aproaching roundabouts etc. The garage doing the work couldn't understand it and re checked there work which is apparantly 100% correct. It would seem that this noise/feel is as a result of single mass v dual mass. I am happier now that I have seen these comments as I do not believe it will harm my car and I do not think the Dual mass would have coped although i am no expert. I am happy to live with the additional noise for the new speed at which the engine revs and the way the clutch bites giving the performance I have paid for with the upgrade. Cost of clutch and flywheel was just over £700 and fitting was £300. Well worth it


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## Cornessm (Jan 25, 2015)

Jelvy said:


> Ive just bought and fitted a kit from techniclutch consisting of a solid flywheel, clutch plate by Luk and a modified Luk housing and a new slave cylinder for £595 delivered through eBay. I bought new stretch bolts and seals where applicable from Audi and put new oil and molyslip n the gearbox. I put on a poly dog bone bush also. The Clutch is lighter than my old one (probably due to the new cylinder and fluid) but due to being on a single mass flywheel its certainly more bitey but not by any means nasty. Just different to what you're used to in the tt. It does however make the gearbox a little rattly (maybe the new oil is thinner than what it had before and isn't helping). Its not as bad when its warm and only really noticeable when revving fast from idle to 3000 rpm but it could be the poly mount amplifying the rattle through the subframe so a new Audi bush is what I'm going to fit next week and see if it helps. It the noise dosent quiet down more in the next few weeks I'm contemplating a little oil treatment to see if that will help (gearbox has done 104k miles but was quiet with the dual mass flywheel and old dog bone rubber) . I will try and get a video up of the noise and a pic of the flywheel in the next few days but if anybody else could get a video up of there's I Think it would settle the post by letting people make up their own mind!
> 
> Cheers
> Jay


Jay was how did you get on with the kit have you got a link to the one you got, just put one in from same seller and is no good what to see if it's the same one. Thanks Michael


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