# dont do it!



## Hallyfella (Mar 5, 2007)

My mate just told me that when he was sat at the lights just outside the tunnel in Liverpool a white astra pulled along side him and gave him the w an**r hand signal with which he responded with the two fingered salute,the lights changed and my mate took off,when he checked the rear mirror the astra was after him. He put his foot down and drifted between the traffic up islington(you will know this if you live in the pool)the astra was right behind him at the next lights the astra pulled accross him and a rather large guy got out and walked towards my mates tt. As the big guy tapped on the window with his police warrant card my mate wound his window down and asked what the problem was? . The police man said that he was only suggesting my mate put his seatbelt on and that the two fingers wasnt required!! so the morale of the story is DONT DO IT. BELT UP!! :wink:


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

the stig said:


> BELT UP!


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## itstony (Apr 8, 2005)

You should have had your collar felt for no seat belt, why would you leave it off anyway. I would hope your kids (if you have them, or do one day) don't don't learn from you.

I've seen the results of a young 18 year old girl after going through a window screen, her face is a road map. Never left ine off since that was 1981.
Be safe.
8)


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

i believe wearing seatbelts should be the disredtion of the individual, wot statistics DONT tell u is the amount of lives LOST due to bein stuck in the car for wearing the bloddy things, so i think its a 50/50 thing, shouldnt be made to wear something that potentially could ruin or end your life !!

i know they save yr life SOMETIMES but not ALL the time, so why should we be forced to take the chance either way ????

all those boys killed last week in the pick up truck all wore their seat belts, so didnt help them did it !!

if wearing seat belts was 100% fail proof then i would agree a law to enforce wearing them, but as they are far from that then it shouldnt be enforced that we HAVE to wear them or we suffer a fine or more :evil: :evil: :evil:


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## MaTTy_C (Aug 29, 2006)

luciferlee said:


> i believe wearing seatbelts should be the disredtion of the individual, wot statistics DONT tell u is the amount of lives LOST due to bein stuck in the car for wearing the bloddy things, so *i think its a 50/50 thing*, shouldnt be made to wear something that potentially could ruin or end your life !!
> 
> i know they save yr life SOMETIMES but not ALL the time, so why should we be forced to take the chance either way ????
> 
> ...


I had to read this about 8 times to make sure this post was for real! A 50/50 chance??? I am no mathmatician but I am guessing the odds of a seatbelt saving your life are a bit better than 1 in 2!

And using that tragic accident last week as an example to prove your point? What planet are you on mate?

Im sorry but this subject is something that gets me a bit, to be honest, if you dont value your life enough to wear a seat belt that is entirely your decision but I dont want to be the car in front if heaven forbid you crashed and your body was flung through the windscreen.

Sorry if you think i am being harsh but I think you are 100% on this!


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## Ikon66 (Sep 12, 2003)

I remember hearing that joke when seat belts were made compulsory


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

MaTTy_C said:


> luciferlee said:
> 
> 
> > i believe wearing seatbelts should be the disredtion of the individual, wot statistics DONT tell u is the amount of lives LOST due to bein stuck in the car for wearing the bloddy things, so *i think its a 50/50 thing*, shouldnt be made to wear something that potentially could ruin or end your life !!
> ...


but that IS my point, its MY life, i should choose if iwant to wear a seat belt in order to influence what happens to ME !!!

as i said, statistically they wotn show or nominate the amount of severe or fatalities caused by actually having a seat belt on !

I have actually had a head on collision, NOT wearing my seat belt, i came out with a bump on my head and a cut approx half inch, i was told at the scene by the paramedics and also the coppers involved that if i HAD of worn my seat belt then i would have been in a much worse case, albeit i was "breaking" the law by not wearing it, they HAD to admit i was better off, since then i believe it should be up to the persons discretion !!

I was NOT using ONE incident such as those kids as my PROOF as you put it, merely an example that seat belts are NOT a cure for fatalities, nor all the time a prevention !

Harsh? not at all mate, you have your opinion and i have mine, which is again my point in all this, the discretion of wearing them !

my qoute of 50/50 was meant in a way that its a gamble wearing one to not wearing one, was not a proven statistic that i had qouted, merely emphasisng the fact that , again, its a gamble, and when gambling with your own health or life then i think that should be up to the individual, dont you ? not someone else, always easy to suggest what others should do with their lives isnt it !!!! when it doesnt affect you directly !!!


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

luciferlee said:


> i believe wearing seatbelts should be the disredtion of the individual


Lee, the average cost to the taxpayer of dealing with someone involved in an accident whilst wearing a seatbelt is Â£15,000 - in terms of healthcare, police time, fire and rescue service etc.

The average cost to the taxpayer of dealing with someone involved in an accident whilst *NOT* wearing a seatbelt is Â£150,000. *Ten times as much* - because the injuries are normally more severe and usually more is required at the scene. I think you were just bloody lucky!

It is not a personal choice - your decision impacts on the rest of the taxpaying community.

I have dealt with a number of road accidents in my time. The ONLY ones involving driver fatality were those in which the driver did not have a seatbelt on. Belts are comfortable enough these days - there really is no reason not to wear one.


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

Mark Davies said:


> luciferlee said:
> 
> 
> > i believe wearing seatbelts should be the disredtion of the individual
> ...


im sure even the "small" amount of people that have come off far worse cos they DID wear thier belts have your view mate !!!!

same old story, its ok UNLESS it happens to yuorself or someone you know, then it puts a different perspective on things !!!!

there was a post similar about mobile phones, someone took major offence to the thread etc cos his mate , if i remember rightly, had a leg amputated cos someone driveing was using thier fone and caused the accident...... similar situation, i would say the majority STILL use mobile fones while driving, even tho the potential consequences involved !!!!

not much difference in the choice to wear a belt or to use a fone, both can carry big consequences, but also can carry none ! as we all know !

which take me back to my point ! its a gamble, and i dont see why i should be made to do something that could carry a negative gamble !
especially when its my life they are making me gamble with....

all these arguments consist of positves and negatives, such as life itself, but where does the line draw when we are puppets of society, which we so are in the UK


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## rabTT (Nov 14, 2006)

I've heard this age old debate countless times and the views of both camps have never really changed.

I respect peoples opinions that they feel they should have the right 'to wear or not to wear', however the law is passed a govts have a duty of care to its citizens to keep them as safe as possible ie smoking bans, seatbelts and pressure on car manufacturers to fill their cars with airbags (you dont think they're spending cash for the good of OUR health :lol: )

However .. in my line of work I have to say that the ratio of people killed/injured by seatbelts to those not, doesnt warrant a report purely on the grounds that belts that cause injury/death usually (and you're talking a % in extremely low single figure) areso because of being improperly worn - you have NO IDEA the sights I see re belt wearing..!!

Yes, people are injured by belts .. and sometimes but very rarely seriously . . . . but they are ALIVE!! Guess what .. I dont like wearing a belt but jeez-o, I wear the ba***rd cos it protects ME! :wink:

Hope this helps guys


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

rabvtec said:


> I've heard this age old debate countless times and the views of both camps have never really changed.
> 
> I respect peoples opinions that they feel they should have the right 'to wear or not to wear', however the law is passed a govts have a duty of care to its citizens to keep them as safe as possible ie smoking bans, seatbelts and pressure on car manufacturers to fill their cars with airbags (you dont think they're spending cash for the good of OUR health :lol: )
> 
> ...


a good reply matey, but there are some of us out here, myself included that would rather not survive some of the accidents that may occur, if you get what i mean, im very much into the gym, martials arts etc , ie a very physical life, plus im a scaffolder, so without getting to the gruesome obvious details, with out bein able to do any of these things would be my life over anyway considering one of these i have done since a small child, therefore a VERY big part of who i am and what my life is about

instead of some afor posts aimed at me, giving an attack, i think we are all able to have our views and stand by them, i will , you should etc etc, but to ask me wot planet im on cos of my view is a bit pathetic, unless it can be proved that IF i wear my belt all the time i am 100% safe ! if not then i see my piont as valid ?


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## redsi72 (Nov 13, 2006)

Good debate.
Now dont shoot me down here but in a conversation with a friends GF who was/is training to be a "police driver" I am sure that she said that in high speed persuits it is safer to NOT wear a seatbelt :?

Members of the filth may now chip in.


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

redsi72 said:


> Good debate.
> Now dont shoot me down here but in a conversation with a friends GF who was/is training to be a "police driver" I am sure that she said that in high speed persuits it is safer to NOT wear a seatbelt :?
> 
> Members of the filth may now chip in.


i have also been told that by a friend whos husband teaches coppers to drive


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## Captain Beeflat (Dec 4, 2006)

If seat belts are so effective then why the need for airbags?
In the 1960s the government had to be seen to be doing something about road deaths...two independant studies shewed that the death rate increased with the wearing of seat belts...refusing the statistics, the government went ahead with the legislation.
Above about 30 MPH, the effect the acceleration of stopping the body, but not the head, is obvious...the neck will break.
Of course there will be the case where seatbelts saved lives; but exceptions do not make rules.


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## Rhod_TT (May 7, 2002)

It's kind of like saying you can choose to wear or not wear a motorcycle helmet when riding a bike. But it's a no brainer that you should wear a helmet and the same is true of seatbelts (i.e it's against to law to ride without a helmet or a seatbel).

I read a story recently where two girls in car were stopped by the police for not wearing their seatbelts so the driver sensibly put her seatbelt on but her passenger opted not to. 10min futher into their journey they had a smash. Girl without the seatbelt died, girl with seatbelt survived.

Yes seatbelts can cause injury but it's often down to inappropriate use (Defleppard drummer is one armed becasue he was incorrectly wearing a seatbelt when he crashed his corvette).

I'm sure the evidence is there to say seatbelts save lives (take a look at the TRL website or something) but maybe there is a case for choice as to whether you wear one or not.


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## swinello (Jan 1, 2007)

what ive allways wondered about is the amount of people wearing belts that get Tboned and end up with serious injuries to there sides because they cant move off there seat a little,
i was unfortunate enuff to be a passenger in a side impact a few years ago and was lucky enuff to see what was about to happen,i undid my belt and scrambled to the other side of the car and was unhurt apart from pulling my shoulder a little because the belt caught tround around my forearm when i scrambled to the other side of the car
mind you my mate wasnt happy i ended up sitting on his knee :?  :lol:


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

maTTy_c and Mark Davies, now see my point or are we all wrong still ?


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Lee,

I don't know if you've missed my point or not - but you still seem to be of the opinion that your decision not to wear a seat belt only effects you. My point is, it doesn't!

Whatever your personal experiences, the statistics don't lie - nor do the personal experiences of myself and my colleagues in the emergency services. The fact is, if you don't wear your seatbelt you are far more likely to sustain serious injuries or get killed given any particular crash. Regardless of the statistics, it makes common sense.

When *you* sustain injuries that has an impact on *us* because we, the taxpayer, are footing the bill.

Have a crash at 40mph with a seatbelt on and your likely to suffer no more than some bruising around the shoulder and some whiplash. A police patrol will attend the scene and take a report and chances are you'll just be walking wounded and won't need an ambulance. The road will remain open causing minimal disruption. The following day you will walk into A&E and wait a few hours to be examined, maybe have an x-ray for your neck (but probably not) and go on to have 6 weekly sessions of physio to sort it out.

Have the same crash without a seatbelt and your head hits the windscreen giving you a fractured skull and a broken nose. The impact of the airbag (because you are not in the correct position) hits your chest, fracturing several ribs and puncturing a lung. Your feet fly forward into the footwell, shattering both ankles. You are left unconscious. The road is closed for 4 hours, requiring several police patrols. A fire crew is called out to cut you out of the car and of course an ambulance is required. You are taken to A&E where you need a resus bed. Six nurses, an A&E consultant, a neuro consultant and an orthopaedic consultant are turned out to see to you. Your lung is dealt with in-situ. You are then rushed to neuro theatre to deal with the embolism growing on your brain - using those facilities for 6 hours. You go into intensive care over night before the following morning you are returned to theatre again for the orthopaedic surgeon to try and rebuild your legs. You spend a whole week in intensive care before going to the high dependancy unit for another 3 weeks. After that you are transferred to an ortopaedic ward where you stay for another month while the physiotherapists teach you to walk again. And on, and on and on . . . .

Lee, your health insurance doesn't cover this kind of emergency treatment - so it will all be paid for by the NHS. Or in other words, by us.

Just because you were lucky once, and some people you know about were unlucky, it doesn't mean it always works out like that. It usually works out in the way I describe and the chances are next time that's how it's going to be for you.

Well, you might prefer that, but I'd rather you were not so cavalier with my taxes. I'd rather you wore your belt, please.


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

Mark Davies said:


> Lee,
> 
> I don't know if you've missed my point or not - but you still seem to be of the opinion that your decision not to wear a seat belt only effects you. My point is, it doesn't!
> 
> ...


sorry to burst yr bubble mark but the head on collision i had whilst driving NOT wearing a seat belt was estimated at approx 42 mph, as mentioned b4, i had a bump on my forehead and a cut approx half inch, 2 hours later i went clubbing, no need for A&E or follow up therapy of any sort !!!

the two lads in the other car involved both wearing thier belts suffered severe burns to the neck due to the friction of the seat belt

and i hold my health ABOVE yr point of taxes mate, money should not be compared to ones health or life !


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## itstony (Apr 8, 2005)

Nic,
I read through all the replies after my two penneth and there were some very good points put over saying what I believe, but they did so with more eloquence than I could muster.

I do want to chip in again, but please take this as an honest view and no BS, just as I see it.
With all your replies to a lot odf sense, you seem to give me the impression that you are single, reckon yourself as a bit of a 'Geezer' and like to do your own thing. I'm not a gambler, but if I were I'd stake a few quid you are single and no kids.
I had your views when I was 18-20, but grew up.
Life isn't just about you and when your actions may involve others, you are morally bound to take others into consideration.
Kids in the car without belts....'Brown bread' in in the head-on you had. You also because they would have broke your neck before going on through the screen.
It's law and whether you agree or not, that's what you agree to abide by as should anyone driving the UK roads. In fact anywhere.

I do understand where your coming from, but boy are you way of base on this one.
8)


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Lee,

It's the nature of life that anomolies and freak incidents occur, so there are always going to be people like yourself who can produce examples of incidents where they escaped from an accident uninjured whilst not wearing a seatbelt. But for every one of those there will be dozens if not hundreds of cases where people suffered serious injury. The exceptions do not discount the rule.

Yes, a seatbelt may give you friction burns and bruising around the neck - and perhaps in low speed impacts you may have avoided any injuries otherwise - so do you put your belt on when you go over 40mph and then take if off again when you drop below? I very much doubt it. The point is, they are minor injuries.

Many of the other points raised can easily be addressed. Belts are okay - we have airbags too because that makes the chances of injury even less. The Captain's points are over 30 years out of date and relate to the use of statically fixed belts - not the inertia belts we use today. And I can can tell you straight off that reports of police driving instructors recommending you don't wear a belt are absolute bollocks! We often don't but I assure you that is for reasons other than safety.

Bottom line - whether you agree with it or not it is the law. I'd hope you wouldn't have the nerve to complain when you get a ticket - as that's just another consequence of your 'personal' choice.

The sad case quoted of a girl (only 19) being given a ticket for not wearing her belt and then killing herself in a crash not 10 minutes later is very true. It happened here just a few months ago. Some people just won't be told. Well, there is only so much you can do. Make your own choices.


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

itstony said:


> Nic,
> I read through all the replies after my two penneth and there were some very good points put over saying what I believe, but they did so with more eloquence than I could muster.
> 
> I do want to chip in again, but please take this as an honest view and no BS, just as I see it.
> ...


nic ?? im assuming you mean me ?

talking about the belts im PURELY talkin about ME and MY right as MYSELF with my views, i never mentioned about kids, pasengers etc !!!

my right to endanger or not my own life etc, and as my point suggests, i feel i am in danger either way so my preference is to NOT wear my belt, do i not have that right, deducting the law from the equation 4 a minute, im soley talkin about what i feel is safer for me etc

I used to teach under 16's a martial art, now i can teach them what to do in a severe situation that will or most probably reverse any attack brought to them, but how they feel at the time will stem from how safe they feel with thier actions, thats thier right to have that feeling, same way as my right to feel safer without my belt !

again, im not talkin about goin against the law etc, as much as i think the law in this country is , well, thats another thread, what im saying is in a circumstance where its not a clean cut statistic, then why should a route be enforced upon us ?

also again assuming you mean me, wots havin kids got anything to do with this ? i wasnt talkin about kids wearing seat belts, i was talkin about me wearing seatbelts ???

also "geezer"? define ?

"do my own thing" ? of course, bein a sheep and following a herd is not something i would choose, so yes doin my OWN thing is me ! is that wrong then ?

i also think that yr "moral" qoutes are based on a perfect world mate, and im sure you dont wear those rose colored glasses do you, as you said yourself, you grew up ?

Yr tellin me about law and i have to abide, yr a high standin citizen then are you that does nothing that would be un lawful or against morals ?


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

Mark

so what are these reasons OTHER than safety ? cos there seems to be a lot of preaching about the belts bein worn for safety, yet you confess that alot of times yu dont wear them for other reasons ? how can you expect a law to be respected if its not even upheld by the enforcers ?


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## itstony (Apr 8, 2005)

I'm sorry about the name mistake.

I will add my last word on this as I really do not quite understand your logic.
Where the martial arts relate to it really lost me. I hope you allow that comment from a 'Eligible' teacher of a martial art....but I do not.

Back to the subject and subject only.
Your views on the seatbelt law, sorry but you cannot split this fact, it is integral and you are not allowed to practise what you are preaching. Post a view and debate it yes, but not practise it. The reasons for that have been explained by many in this topic here.
Your view has been told by many, but it doesnt hold water once it is debated.
If I had been you in that accident, I believe I would be counting my blessings that I did survive and never ever again be so stupid to leave it off.
You have a right to a view and we should respect that, but that's all it should be, a view. In the meantime until you and enough others are able to persuade the government to rethink it, it's something you should adhere to and respect.

PS. BTW, if you had a wife and kids, would you tell them to not wear a seat belt/ Or would you let them choose?
:?


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

itstony said:


> I'm sorry about the name mistake.
> 
> I will add my last word on this as I really do not quite understand your logic.
> Where the martial arts relate to it really lost me. I hope you allow that comment from a 'Eligible' teacher of a martial art....but I do not.
> ...


my wife will have a mind of her own, if she so chooses to NOT wear her belt then i woudl respect her enough to know she knows what she wants, as far as kids then until they are of age to make such choices then i will aide in making their choices along side such said wife

being told what to do is one thing, being told what to do and respecting it is another


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

ps the point i was trying to make about the martial arts etc was that the student might know what he should do etc but dependent on his belief or inner feelings at the time will denote his motion of direction either walk away, or fight his defence as he has been taught, same with me and my belt, i know tis the law, i know it has saved lives, but i feel safer and more at ease without it


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Interesting thread, sort of. When I had a succession of Lotus Elans, many moons ago, all were fitted with full harness 6 point seat belts, same as were used in single seater racing cars. They had a central push release mechanism around my belly button area, which when punched the whole harness flew apart. So I guess I'm on the side of wearing a seat belt 

I've often thought about doing the same in my TT.

Joe


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## MaTTy_C (Aug 29, 2006)

Lee you will never change my viewpoint on this subject, especially as a close friend of mine works very closely with brain trauma injuries, alot of which are caused by not wearing a seat belt.

what i will say though is that i apologise for saying you are on another planet and acknowledge the fact you have a right to your opinion.

i just hope you or any one else for that matter is in a position that they wished they had worn one.


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## TT23 (Mar 14, 2007)

luciferlee said:


> i believe wearing seatbelts should be the disredtion of the individual, wot statistics DONT tell u is the amount of lives LOST due to bein stuck in the car for wearing the bloddy things, so i think its a 50/50 thing, shouldnt be made to wear something that potentially could ruin or end your life !!
> 
> i know they save yr life SOMETIMES but not ALL the time, so why should we be forced to take the chance either way ????
> 
> ...


If seatbelts are as dangerous as you make out why has the 3 point belt remained pretty much unchanged for so long? Would we not have seen some new seatbelt innovation on an S class Merc or some Volvo to address this issue?

Also, airbags are designed assuming you are wearing a seatbelt. One going off an inch from your face because you weren't wearing a belt will surely give you something worse than a friction burn from a belt.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

luciferlee said:


> so what are these reasons OTHER than safety ? cos there seems to be a lot of preaching about the belts bein worn for safety, yet you confess that alot of times yu dont wear them for other reasons ? how can you expect a law to be respected if its not even upheld by the enforcers ?


Well, in my personal circumstances when I'm on my way to an incident with a loaded carbine in my hands and need to be exiting the vehicle quickly to engage a target I don't want to be messing about trying to take off a belt or, worse still, forgetting I've got it on and trying to get out of the car! Apart from looking silly that could get me killed.

We have a job to do and sometimes wearing a seatbelt gets in the way. We accept the additional risks involved with not wearing the belt so that we can get the job done more effectively - but we are taking a risk. And when on duty we are exempt from wearing the belt, so we are not breaking the law ourselves - there's not really any hipocrisy involved.

You still seem to be firmly in the belief that seat belts are actually more dangerous than none at all - that they are more likely to injure you than save you. From that point of view what you say makes some sense - however I do think you are mistaken in that view. Until your personal experiences show you otherwise I'm sure nothing we can say can convince you to change your mind. I just hope you take great care when driving and don't have a serious crash that teaches you the hard way.

Drive safely.


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

Ah, if only we didn't live in a nanny state and were allowed to do what we liked, natural selection would have a chance. 

The same argument was made by racing drivers sometime ago - better to be thrown from a burning vehicle blah blah blah. I'm sure they have a different view these days...

Shall debate why pedestrians shouldn't look both ways before crossing the road? Surely people would drive slower and more carefully in cities if they knew someone could step off the pavement at any second? :roll:


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

If you ever find yourself in my car, you'd wear a seatbelt or you'd walk.

I refuse to set off if someone behind me doesn't wear a seatbelt as it jdoesn't just put their life in danger, it endangers mine.

And if you want to look at statistics, then look at the US. They've got airbags in their cars and still many people refuse to wear seatbelts. The incidents of people being killed by the airbag has prompted people to lobby the govt claiming that airbags are dangerous!!

At the end of the day, it's entirely up to you if you choose to flaunt the law, but I've never understood it.

My cousin refuses to wear one for resons unknown and a friend of mine won't wear one after he was trapped in a car by his belt many years ago. However, the fact that he now drives a roadster makes me think his rationale is flawed. I would imagine if he flipped that, he'd rather be trapped by his belt and let the hoops take the impact.


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## 55JWB (May 7, 2002)

My brother was killed in a car accident, as a rear passenger had he had his seat belt on she would have surivived like the two front passengers that did... 

The car rolled he came out of the car and it landed on top of him, two front seat passengers simply unclicked and did not even attend hospital... 

Jason


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

I'm from the Italian point off view on seatbelts. If you think that you need a seatbelt you cant think highly off your driving. That being the case you shouldnt be behind the wheel off a car in the first place. 

That said as a cabby i dont have to wear one in anycase. So i dont care at all

So why did i even bother posting on here? :?


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

Mark Davies said:


> luciferlee said:
> 
> 
> > so what are these reasons OTHER than safety ? cos there seems to be a lot of preaching about the belts bein worn for safety, yet you confess that alot of times yu dont wear them for other reasons ? how can you expect a law to be respected if its not even upheld by the enforcers ?
> ...


It basically boils down, like most things in life, to a "personal" opinion, like smokin, drugs, fighting, different jobs, different cultures, religions, places to eat etc etc etc and my opinion to the seat belt is that i would rather not wear one, based on my own beliefs and feelings, not all people views on things are moral, legal, ligitimate etc etc etc but hey, isnt that hwta makes us individual ???

i hear what everyone has said, but as you said Mark, im set in my views and will not be budged unless one day someone can say to me " seatblets are 100% safe"

cheers for all input, albeit not my thread really originally :wink:

horses for course guys regardless of rules, law and other peoples beliefs

or we would all be clones if everyone thought the same

Lee


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

My father in law drives a van for a living and does over 30,000 miles per year. He never wears a seatbelt if he can help it. His reasoning is that he once heard of a driver whose car went into a river and he drowned because he couldn't get his seatbelt off :roll:

This is 100% genuine! 

Only time we can get him to wear a belt is if he's in our VW as it nags at you if it detects a weight on the passenger seat.


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## jam (May 8, 2002)

genocidalduck said:


> I'm from the Italian point off view on seatbelts. If you think that you need a seatbelt you cant think highly off your driving. That being the case you shouldnt be behind the wheel off a car in the first place.


What about the other millions of road users? It's not always just your own driving standards that you have to consider!! I am perfectly confident in my own driving abilities but there are a lot of poor drivers around - I always wear my seatbelt just incase I end up in a situation with one of the millions of muppets out there!


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## fastasflip (May 13, 2003)

I'm amazed at some of the anti seat belt comments and other bo!!ockx that has been spouted

Police drivers being told it is safer to not wear seat belts ? Probably if your on the approach to a firearms job etc or a violent prisoner in the back but day to day driving I don't think so

Head on crash's at exactly 42 mph and walking away, was an accident investigator called to the scene to give such an accurate figure I doubt if he was if no one was seriously injured and even if they did I'm almost positive they would give such an accurate figure.

Most people think their crash's were 000mph when in fact the majority of impact speeds are less than 10mph. 10metres of skid mark on a dry road followed by an impact indicator equates to approx 10mph impact 20m of skid 20mph etc (this is a rough guide taken from my beginners guide to crash investigating)

According to some , seat belts are dangerous but I'm feeling lucky so I'll continue to wear it.

http://v2.vidman.ca/video/thrown.html


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

fastasflip said:


> I'm amazed at some of the anti seat belt comments and other bo!!ockx that has been spouted
> 
> Police drivers being told it is safer to not wear seat belts ? Probably if your on the approach to a firearms job etc or a violent prisoner in the back but day to day driving I don't think so
> 
> ...


i do know how to read a speedo mate, for a fact i know it was no less than 40 miles an hour, or were you there as you seem to know more than me about my accident ? and yes i walked away, in fact i was dancing my bollox off about 2 and half hours later, and the injuries from all parties have already been mentioned, but feel free to call me a liar if you want ?


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## jam (May 8, 2002)

luciferlee said:


> in fact i was dancing my bollox off about 2 and half hours later


Were you on 'XTC'? :wink:


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

jam said:


> luciferlee said:
> 
> 
> > in fact i was dancing my bollox off about 2 and half hours later
> ...


 [smiley=clown.gif] :wink:


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