# "How To" N249 Delete & Forge Below inlet manifold hoses



## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

*How to N249 & Forge Below inlet manifold hoses*

Well After my recent boost leak test I knew I needed to work on the 3 piece forge kit for under the manifold and after discussing a few people who have removed the N249 I thought I'd give it a go.
Well before you jump in I thought I'd post up the explanation to the N249 function, Thanks to sam at the Seat Cupra net.



> N249 is controlling the DV (Dump Valve). It is installed between the intake vacuum source and DV itself. When no current is switched to the N249 (default state), the DV will get vacuum or boost from the intake manifold. This is how almost ALL turbo cars are worknig. When shifting gears, you let off throttle, TB closes and vacuum is generated which can open DV to vent boost (which cannot enter engine, because TB is closed).
> 
> On never 1.8Ts (2000+) they introduced the N249 (along with lots of other stuff) which is a possibility for the ECU to open the DV any time (!), even during full throttle/acceleration. When the engine is running and turbo is boosting, there is no vacuum generated, but to open the DV (which is mechanical), vacuum is needed. This is what the black vacuum reservior on top of the engine is used for. When idling, shifting, etc - so when vacuum is available, vacuum is led into this reservoir from the intake manifold and kept inside using a check valve (white/black), so when boosting again, vacuum will stay there (air cannot enter into the reservoir).
> 
> ...


First up you have to get the engine in a workable state, which means removing all the plastic covers, The main reason for this is the 2 adjoining slam panel covers need to be removed to get access in if (like me) your not removing the inlet manifold.









Now if you look on the bottom of the inlet manifold you can see two Allen key bolts that hold the securing tray for the dipstick and inlet cover in place&#8230; it's only 2 bolts which are the same that is used on the tray for the N75.









Just under the inlet manifold is the first of the hoses for the forge kit. This is the one that had split on mine, and was leaking from the 45 degree bend.









Removing this from the underside of the manifold can be abit tricky, especially with the brittle dip stick tube.









Whilst your working in this area you may also remove the 2 hoses to the left under the inlet manifold. One of these goes to the N249 and the other to (braded) goes to the fuel pressure regulator.









Now moving to the right. There are 2 hoses attacted to the end of the hose you first removed. These two are the other end of the forge kit and will allow you to remove the plastic "Y" section.









Once off you can slide the hole unit out. This is where I found the leak.

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With the unit out you can set the new hoses correct angles (making fitting easier when you take it back under the inlet manifold.









Fit the hoeses together.









Remove the hoses to the N249 that travels to the DV









Fit the forge hoses in place, and also fit 2 lengths on 4mm silicone hoses to the 2 remaining inlet manifold nipples.

















Run one of the hoses to the DV nipple and the other to the fuel pressure regulator.









Now with the removal of the N249 hoses, it is now officially a ornimant.
So lets get rid









To be able to continue to mount the engine cover, you'll have to cut the N249 bracket. You should see what is required by looking but here's a good guide as to where to cut.









And once you've cut all the way through you'll be let with the bracket like this:-









Fit the bracket in place over cylinder 3









Unfortuntly unless you're a wiz with electrics (oh Big SYD) your going to have to mount the solenoid to the bracket for the engine cover. (the plug really needs a resistor to fool the ECU.









Once you've started to put the covers back on, if you have a DV relocate and boost gage, your set up will look like this.









So there you go&#8230; the Replacement of the common hose failure, and removal of the N249 the easy way.. I know there has been some discussion with utilizing a check valve. However I didn't within my installation&#8230; be interesting to hear if others did.

*UPDATE 03/10/10 solinoid relocation (hiding)*
Ok so myself, syd, and mark has abit of a morning tinker today at syd's, N249 Deletes all round, and a super hiding place for the solinoid,

First you will have to cut the plug from existing cable (i did think we were going to use male and female spades but syd wanted to make sure it was all sealed and perfect. we then soldered a long wire to the end of each cable (there's 2) and played around with locations, in the end we found this to be best:-







Using the heat shield at the back of the rocker cover (same one the plug for the coil packs come out of) we threaded a very OEM looking plastic cable shield.









We then threaded it round the break Resovouir.









Inbetween the steering fluid Tank, and the water tank.









and ending up here.

At this point we soldered on the plug to the corrosponding wires, heat shrinked and canvas sealed.









Then it was time to locate, using the rubber mount, and existing hose clip points we managed to get it solid as a rock,

so the complete install now looks like this:-









Which has completely freed up the rocker cover, I can see a painted rocker cover on the cards next :lol:


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Nice how to I have had 2 sets of these hoses sat at home for about 3 months I might get round to fitting them some time


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

YELLOW_TT said:


> Nice how to I have had 2 sets of these hoses sat at home for about 3 months I might get round to fitting them some time


I was the same... Had mine ages, probably wouldn't have fitted them at all if i hadn't boost tested and realised i had a small leak in that area...

I'm not going to comment on how the N249 delete is... but lets just say i strongly recommend to anyone who's boost intermitently stalls at around 15psi to do it... this is the N249 releasing the pressure.. or holding the pressure back... now it just goes... however how much is the N249 vs the boost leak i'm not sure....

Rolling road day on the 6th November should give me a clue on if the grath has moved at all


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

Well done Tony, takes my N249 delete to the next step by giving the DV a dedicated vacuum pipe thereby eliminating unwanted pipework that can only cause boost leaks
Think I'll get the forge pipes and finish the job properly cos as well as not introducing any trouble codes it defo runs better now I've had a couple of weeks to try it    
Graham


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

Tony,
Does this Forge pipe kit fit the APX engine, have been on the Awesome website and they list it for the BAM engine.
I seem to remember this on a post ages ago when they released it but I cant find it  
[smiley=cheers.gif] 
Graham


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

Not sure mate, I can't see why not though.. the inlet manifold must have the same holes in for the forge hoses to fit in... and i've not seen anything to say the PVC system runs differently..Not sure what engine les's is but his is an early TT and his are the same he's bought the hoses because his was really leaking there when we tested it..

I must point out you don't need to do the below hoses to do the N249 Delete, i did them because it was leaking and whilst i was doing the delete it was easy to get to...


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

Ok I've ordered them to see if they'll fit
I already have the N249 delete (posted 2weeks ago) but it will be nice to tidy up the pipework
Graham


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## DAZTTC (May 20, 2005)

Grahamstt said:


> Ok I've ordered them to see if they'll fit
> I already have the N249 delete (posted 2weeks ago) but it will be nice to tidy up the pipework
> Graham


Hi mate i don't thing they'll fit i have an APX and we don't have the plastic bit in the middle of the hoses.

DAZ


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

*ANNOUNCEMENT *

After speaking with syd, and know what it's actually going to take to remove the solinoid with resistors (and that fact it'll end up just as big as the solinoid unit) we've got another plan,

i'll add it to the "how to" when we've done it... (big thanks to syd for the discussion and suggestions, and we'll sort out when to do it)


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## captain_milk699 (May 13, 2009)

Good read! bump 8)


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

*Now Updated *

See first POST !


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## swfblade (Apr 24, 2007)

> In the case ECU sees a little overboost problem, it can turn N249 on/off repeatedly for very fast (just as N75 is working), which will open/close DV all the time, trying to settle (lower) the boost level.


I wonder if this is a reason why _some_ have issues with their Split-R? maybe they have a slightly faulting N249, or maybe those with no issues do? Just an idea...


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## UK225 (May 12, 2002)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> Not sure mate, I can't see why not though.. the inlet manifold must have the same holes in for the forge hoses to fit in... and i've not seen anything to say the PVC system runs differently..Not sure what engine les's is but his is an early TT and his are the same he's bought the hoses because his was really leaking there when we tested it..


Hi,

APX does not have the suction jet pump, so these hoses would not be much use for one :wink:

Regards
Morgan


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

are you saying if i get myself a APX inlet manfold then the main male outles on the inlet manifold behind the dipstick wouldn't be there???? meaning it's a better manifold, for stripping all the pvc system.. [smiley=gossip.gif]


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## alun (Aug 2, 2010)

quote ...."Unfortuntly unless you're a wiz with electrics (oh Big SYD) your going to have to mount the solenoid to the bracket for the engine cover. (the plug really needs a resistor to fool the ECU."

so what happens if you dont use a resistor? does it chuck a light on or an engine fault code?


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## DAZTTC (May 20, 2005)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> are you saying if i get myself a APX inlet manfold then the main male outles on the inlet manifold behind the dipstick wouldn't be there???? meaning it's a better manifold, for stripping all the pvc system.. [smiley=gossip.gif]


No Tony the main male outlet is there its the other pipe that comes off the Y (suction jet pump  thanks Morgan :wink: ) that we don't have. :wink: 
I was just last night looking at a how to for the catch tank i think it a very good idea. 8) 
DAZ


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

damm :roll: had idea's then,

hey daz have your seen this on the oil catch tank, http://www.034motorsport.com/images/Laszlo/MkIV_Catch_Can.pdf good system but abit steep at $225 plus UK shipping and import costs, perhaps it's something forge can look into, i mean they do the tanks already (for other cars)


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## cookie (Mar 30, 2009)

Pfft look at my group buy you noobs 

Will be doing the PCV Removal and catch can kit installation very soon as my tank is on route to the UK as we speak


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

i'm waiting to see what you have in the kit, and how easy you find it... also your fitting guide.. last thing i wanna be doing is chopping hoses whilst on the car to length..


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## cookie (Mar 30, 2009)

Joined the dark side now and did this mod last week in Prep for when the Catch Can arrives and my god my car does feel alot better for removing it also seems to be boosting better when checking on the Liquid however not sure if thats down to removing the N249 or just the fact I've elimated lost of hoses which could of been leaking etc!


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

glad you like cookie !!!

make sure you do a similar write up with you pipe runs for the tank... i'm eagarly waiting for it


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## cookie (Mar 30, 2009)

Not long now Tony till i get it then I can get a guide and hopefully people will confirm to the group buy! 

Class: Priority Mail International Parcels
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Your item is being processed by customs in GREAT BRITAIN. Information, if available, is updated periodically throughout the day. Please check again later.

Detailed Results:

Into Foreign Customs, October 11, 2010, 1:25 pm, GREAT BRITAIN 
Into Foreign Customs, October 11, 2010, 1:24 pm, GREAT BRITAIN 
Arrived Abroad, October 11, 2010, 1:20 pm, GREAT BRITAIN 
International Dispatch, October 07, 2010, 7:29 pm, ISC LOS ANGELES CA (USPS) 
Arrival 
Electronic Shipping Info Received, October 04, 2010


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## Mondo (Feb 20, 2009)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> make sure you do a similar write up with you pipe runs for the tank... i'm eagarly waiting for it


+1. If it looks like a goer I'm there!


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## coachvtt (Aug 25, 2009)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> glad you like cookie !!!
> 
> make sure you do a similar write up with you pipe runs for the tank... i'm eagarly waiting for it


I second that, I just changed the hoses under the mani, due too a leak, I want to delete the PCV all together
and run the catch can. Just not sure how to run the lines for pressure!
Two small lines under the Mani and one outlet at the End of the manifold on the Passenger side!
Not sure which too keep and which to plug? and where to get the pressure after removing the "hockey puck"?

A write up would be great!


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## neoo-cy-tt (Nov 29, 2008)

there is a way to delete the n249 with a resistor guys?


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

Yes but because of the high load, bearing in mind it's a solinoid you need quite a few... and it reality trying to hide that is just as difficult as hiding the actual solinoid... except the solinoid is free and you know it can handel load, resistor may be fine until the ecu tries to use it then there may be a small fire.. :lol:


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## bigsyd (Jul 9, 2008)

neoo-cy-tt said:


> there is a way to delete the n249 with a resistor guys?


When I measured the resistance of the 249 it measured 26 ohms.I do not know the duty cycle of the 249 but if we went for worst case scenario that being constant , it would give us 0.461amps and 5.5 watts
So you would need a 30 ohm and > 6 watt resistor, the type with a built in heat sink, higher wattage would be better
And a toast rack to boil an egg lol
Just relocate the 249 m8, will save you a world of pain
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DAZTTC (May 20, 2005)

I did my n249 and n112 with a 30 ohm :wink:

DAZ


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## neoo-cy-tt (Nov 29, 2008)

i found somewhere that a 330ohm and 10w resistor will be fine but now you changed my mind with the fire and the boiled eggs LOL :?: :idea:


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## DAZTTC (May 20, 2005)

neoo-cy-tt said:


> i found somewhere that a 330ohm and 10w resistor will be fine but now you changed my mind with the fire and the boiled eggs LOL :?: :idea:


Myself and lots of people from the Seat/golf forums have used the 330ohm and 10w resistors for a long time and no firers yet.

DAZ 

PS just touched some wood. :wink:


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## bigsyd (Jul 9, 2008)

if the 249 is only energised every so often as apposed to constantly ..on.. a 30 ohm resistor would be no problem with heat ....so it may only be a SLOW cooker lol instead of a toaster :lol:


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## DAZTTC (May 20, 2005)

bigsyd said:


> if the 249 is only energised every so often as apposed to constantly ..on.. a 30 ohm resistor would be no problem with heat ....so it may only be a SLOW cooker lol instead of a toaster :lol:


 :lol: Seams fine Syd only just checked them over tonight when i was fitting a new Lambda. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

DAZ


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## finesse (Mar 3, 2010)

thanks for this!


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## Rosso TT (Dec 25, 2010)

Just done this mod myself and installed a 27 ohm 10W square resistor and plugged a t piece between mani and dv to use the cold start recirculation thingy.
Done a test drive and my boost wouldn't go past 1 bar, the inlet mani hose splitted :x


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

You sure it's split cos the cold start (egr valve) thingy normally is operated by a solenoid so if you have permanent vacuum to it you will have the valve operating all the time. :?

Just a thought :wink: 
Graham


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## Tangerine Knight (Jul 25, 2010)

looks like next weekends job [smiley=book2.gif]


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## Rosso TT (Dec 25, 2010)

Yes, was the mani hose splitted, i don't think the egr valve remains on all the time, as you said it's got a solenoid to shut it off after the engine warms up otherwise will drain all the vacuum from the vacuum reservoir.
Now i notice when i start the car from cold the engine doesn't cranck up straight away, i had the same problem a couple of weeks ago but that was the engine speed sensor, i think is something to do with the n249 delete and i also noticed that the resistor i installed in place of the valve gets very hot on idling so i think it gets power from the ECU, it that allright?


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## ViperOneZero (Sep 4, 2008)

im going to use a 330ohm 10w resistor with built in heat sink.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/330-OHM-J-R-1...CarParts_SM&hash=item19c33b329d#ht_775wt_1144


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