# AbsoluTTE 34 arrived this morning.......



## Hev

......and I really like it!

Well done to everybody involved [smiley=mexicanwave.gif] [smiley=mexicanwave.gif] [smiley=mexicanwave.gif]

Keep up the good work 

Hev x


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## Audiphil

I too really like it well done to the team who put this together


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## Templar

Wow, new look mag just arrived this morning. Well impressed. Well done guys 8)


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## Hoggy

Hi, Good Effort.  :lol: :wink: :wink: 
Hoggy.


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## Wallsendmag

Hoggy said:


> Hi, Good Effort.  :lol: :wink: :wink:
> Hoggy.


I may have to upgrade to a Premium Membership I hear it's so good

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## Templar

Wallsendmag said:


> Hoggy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, Good Effort.  :lol: :wink: :wink:
> Hoggy.
Click to expand...

I may have to upgrade to a Premium Membership I hear it's so good

Surprised you didn't being as you're in it.


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## paulc1

Templar said:


> Wallsendmag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hoggy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, Good Effort.  :lol: :wink: :wink:
> Hoggy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I may have to upgrade to a Premium Membership I hear it's so good
> 
> Surprised you didn't being as you're in it.
Click to expand...

Proberly something to do with his loft is full of TTOC mags doesn't want to add another one to it


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## Nyxx

Love the new look, fresh clean and modern. Like the way it's a satin cover like Audi do there's .Thats a nice touch to link the looks together.

Great job, thanks for all the hard work.


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## Mark Davies

I'm not so sure about the satin finish. It looks cheaper - almost like it's just been run off on a photocopier - but I suspect it may yet grow on me. Other than that I like the general design and it's got none of my drivel in it for a change, which I'm sure is a blessed relief for everyone!

Good first effort, Dan.


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## dtsdesignz

I'm glad its going down well. Enjoy.


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## Phil_RS

Mark Davies said:


> I'm not so sure about the satin finish. It looks cheaper - almost like it's just been run off on a photocopier - but I suspect it may yet grow on me. Other than that I like the general design and it's got none of my drivel in it for a change, which I'm sure is a blessed relief for everyone!
> 
> Good first effort, Dan.


I sort of agree, it's not the same as the Audi magazine, and in some way just feels cheaper when compared side to side with the old glossy version.

Overall it looks good but there are certainly things I preferred on the older version.

I wouldn't say it is a massive step change from the old version that it had been made out that it would be. Having said that, it's still impressive given it is effectively the first edition by this team and therefore I'm sure it will develop over time and there are lots of things that are an improvement.


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## j8keith

Arrived this morning [smiley=dude.gif] great content, but the satin finish does not feel the same as quality as the old glossy edition.


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## TT Owners Club

The feedback is great guys - keep it coming, both positive and negative 



Phil_RS said:


> ...there are certainly things I preferred on the older version...there are lots of things that are an improvement...


Can you be more specific?


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## neilc

Hey am I the only person without one 

I know the post in rural Norfolk is slow mind.


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## Spaceman10

Hi guys

Got mine today  
Love the new look, great write ups and photos 

Well done to all the team and the guys with the story's

Phil


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## Gazzer

as mentioned i really don't like the satin finish, it looks cheaper to me in finish. it is blatantly obviouse that it was put together hastily in it's contents compared to the usual mag.
what is in there is of a good quality and the team has worked well to get it to this stage i must say so well done all of you for the work put into this first edition. four pages of basically advertising for DDB seemed ott to me (obviously he loved it)
out of ten i would say 7.5 only as the content let it down slightly, so again well done...onwards & upwards now 8)


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## Templar

I think its more modern in its design. All though the original mag was good, I believe it as starting to show its age.


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## Phil_RS

TT Owners Club said:


> The feedback is great guys - keep it coming, both positive and negative
> 
> 
> 
> Phil_RS said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...there are certainly things I preferred on the older version...there are lots of things that are an improvement...
> 
> 
> 
> Can you be more specific?
Click to expand...

Ok, I've set out below my negative comments:

1. There is a lack of consistency in the design in places. Specifically, the use of Absolutte in the bottom of each odd page is:
A) sometimes missing;
B) sometimes on the even page; and
C) not consistent in its spacing from the edge of you page.

2. The contents page has a bar across the bottom, which none of the other pages has

3. Some pictures have borders and others don't

4. I liked how, say, the news or events section had a consistent heading in the top right of the old mag. I think this works particularly well for those sections but isn't probably required for the features section.

5. I think the colours used should be reduced in numbers. There are a lot of different colours used for headings etc and I think this should be limited. For instance, the company I work for (£2bn+ turnover) has a colour pallet of 6 colours that we use to maintain our brand image.

6. Where "Ultimate Dubs" is located on the cover could be a bit mis leading in terms of what the magazine is called. It draws your attention more than the "Absolutte"

7. Page numbering is missing from some pages

8. I'm not sure if we should distinguish between something that is an advert and something that is an article? In EVO they have a comment on the top of a page if its an advert where it has the feel of an article to make this clear. Presumably there is some legal reason for this. This would apply to the detailing articles and the so called "news" article on page 5 which I'm not convinced is really "news" at all.

These are all really design points as I think the content (whilst not having read it all) looks good.

I'm happy to talk anyone through these in more detail.

The rest of it looks good.

Phil


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## dtsdesignz

What do you do for work Phil? That is some detailed feedback.


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## mighTy Tee

As I have said on the TTOC forum, first opinion - cheap. I dont mind the matte but feel the cover is thin and flimsy, lacks the quality of the 33 other AbsoluTTes I have had over the years.

Use a thicker outer cover and refine the consistency as mentioned above and it will be a better magazine rather than a pamphlet.

BTW - loved Dan's honesty of his Castle Combe moment and really felt for him as he described his feelings during and immediately after the incident. I would have loved some more detail of the repairs etc though and really pleased to hear the qS has been returned to it's former glory.

(BTW - my sig photo below was taken during the same track session and you can see how wet the track was by the reflections)


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## Phil_RS

dtsdesignz said:


> What do you do for work Phil? That is some detailed feedback.


I work for an accountancy firm, so nothing at all similar. However, we put the firms name to a lot of reports, presentations, marketing material (some of which a client will have paid a lot of money for) and its those fairly minor points that all add up to the overall appearance/value of a document.


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## rustyintegrale

Hallefookinglujah...

It's only been too many years coming but well done.

Next job, an EvenTT that really rocks...

Polishing cars and eating shirt burgers and chips is not really the scene these days! :lol:


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## dtsdesignz

rustyintegrale said:


> Hallefookinglujah...
> 
> It's only been too many years coming but well done.
> 
> Next job, an EvenTT that really rocks...
> 
> Polishing cars and eating shirt burgers and chips is not really the scene these days! :lol:


Glad you like! If I get to do the next it'll be even sharper!!!


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## rustyintegrale

dtsdesignz said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hallefookinglujah...
> 
> It's only been too many years coming but well done.
> 
> Next job, an EvenTT that really rocks...
> 
> Polishing cars and eating shirt burgers and chips is not really the scene these days! :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you like! If I get to do the next it'll be even sharper!!!
Click to expand...

So many people underrate the power of good design. I haven't seen what you've done but by all accounts it's good. That has to be good for the club and the future enthusiasm for it. So well done for getting it pushed through.


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## Wallsendmag

I'd just like to say thanks to Dan for all his hard work .

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## Gazzer

dtsdesignz said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hallefookinglujah...
> 
> It's only been too many years coming but well done.
> 
> Next job, an EvenTT that really rocks...
> 
> Polishing cars and eating shirt burgers and chips is not really the scene these days! :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you like! If I get to do the next it'll be even sharper!!!
Click to expand...

ok.........am a tad confused here on your post. dan did you not have time to make this first edition the dogs danglies? or is this what you felt was good enough?


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## rustyintegrale

Wallsendmag said:


> I'd just like to say thanks to Dan for all his hard work .
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


We agree at last.


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## dtsdesignz

So I'm a tad confused... Are you trying to trip me up on my post Gazzer?

I think the more you do something the better you get at it, that was my first attempt at the mag and if I do another I think I can refine it each edition at a time.

That was all.


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## dtsdesignz

Wallsendmag said:


> I'd just like to say thanks to Dan for all his hard work .
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


Everyone contributed the content, I just put it together. Thanks to you too.


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## rustyintegrale

Gazzer said:


> dtsdesignz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hallefookinglujah...
> 
> It's only been too many years coming but well done.
> 
> Next job, an EvenTT that really rocks...
> 
> Polishing cars and eating shit burgers and chips is not really the scene these days! :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you like! If I get to do the next it'll be even sharper!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ok.........am a tad confused here on your post. dan did you not have time to make this first edition the dogs danglies? or is this what you felt was good enough?
Click to expand...

Gazz, you don't know the design process.

Designer presents his vision of what will work best. Client cuts it down. Designer protests (he is the designer after all) but allows the client his way to get job done. Once design is accepted he then goes hell for leather.

The way it should be is to accept what the designer says. He won't present anything under par if he's worth his salt. But it must be done to brief. If the designer doesn't meet the brief he has aggro.

That's why I don't do it anymore. Clients think they are designers. But take a look at what your client wears, drives, listens to and eats. Look out of your window and you'll see they haven't a clue about design, colour, typography or quality. Ask a client about the importance of white space and they reckon it's for filling!


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## Gazzer

dtsdesignz said:


> So I'm a tad confused... Are you trying to trip me up on my post Gazzer?
> 
> I think the more you do something the better you get at it, that was my first attempt at the mag and if I do another I think I can refine it each edition at a time.
> 
> That was all.


Dan no deffo not trying to trip you up, we were told that you were a fully qualified designer for the mag. so some schoolboy errors and attention to detail were not expected tbh. that is why i ask were you given enough time to do the mag as you wanted.


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## rustyintegrale

Gazzer said:


> dtsdesignz said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I'm a tad confused... Are you trying to trip me up on my post Gazzer?
> 
> I think the more you do something the better you get at it, that was my first attempt at the mag and if I do another I think I can refine it each edition at a time.
> 
> That was all.
> 
> 
> 
> Dan no deffo not trying to trip you up, we were told that you were a fully qualified designer for the mag. so some schoolboy errors and attention to detail were not expected tbh. that is why i ask were you given enough time to do the mag as you wanted.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen the mag. Is it done by some 'surfer dude'?

FFS. Please let's not underestimate design. It's not about making shirt look pretty. It's about marketing and driving enthusiasm. It's about pulling people on board, making them act, making them buy. It's about creating a brand people love.


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## jamman

Rich the mag is fine mate and yes as Phil pointed out there is room for improvement, isn't there always ?

But let's face it certain people can't help themselves. :roll:

For what it's worth I also liked the old mag.


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## rustyintegrale

jamman said:


> Rich the mag is fine mate and yes as Phil pointed out there is room for improvement, isn't there always ?
> 
> But let's face it certain people can't help themselves. :roll:
> 
> For what it's worth I also liked the old mag.


The old mag was 'old'. Sorry but like the 'parish mag' it went in the bin. :lol:


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## Gazzer

jamman said:


> Rich the mag is fine mate and yes as Phil pointed out there is room for improvement, isn't there always ?
> 
> But let's face it certain people can't help themselves. :roll:
> 
> For what it's worth I also liked the old mag.


i am asking some questions is that ok with you James? as until 12am i am still a member and entitled to ask questions ok.


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## rustyintegrale

Gazzer said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rich the mag is fine mate and yes as Phil pointed out there is room for improvement, isn't there always ?
> 
> But let's face it certain people can't help themselves. :roll:
> 
> For what it's worth I also liked the old mag.
> 
> 
> 
> i am asking some questions is that ok with you James? as until 12am i am still a member and entitled to ask questions ok.
Click to expand...

Will you two go and fist each other elsewhere please? :lol:


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## Audiphil

Dan,

I like the mag, good effort, well done


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## phope

For what it's worth, back in mid March, Dan had come up with some mock article layouts, possible cover designs & logos - the committee had then seen these, bounced a few ideas around with Dan, then let some advertisers give their thoughts as well

Hopefully Dan will agree that there's been little interference in the design process

Final front cover is as you see below


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## Phil_RS

I don't think Gaz was having a go. Just asking if he felt he had enough time to get the design right. I actually read one post and thought he hadn't been involved at all - things can sometimes come across differently depending on how you interpret them.


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## Gazzer

Rich i am not sniping at james..............he is at me once again so ya post means?


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## Gazzer

phope said:


> For what it's worth, back in mid March, Dan had come up with some mock article layouts, possible cover designs & logos - the committee had then seen these, bounced a few ideas around with Dan, then let some advertisers give their thoughts as well
> 
> Hopefully Dan will agree that there's been little interference in the design process
> 
> Final front cover is as you see below


when i txt Holls earlier today and asked her if she knew she was front cover.................will tone it done a tad lol yes she is chuffed

btw first new ttoc mag and we put a ttf car on it


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## jamman

Nick showed Holly the front cover at the Rolling Road do and she was over the moon it will look good on her wall that's for sure :mrgreen:


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## rustyintegrale

phope said:


> For what it's worth, back in mid March, Dan had come up with some mock article layouts, possible cover designs & logos - the committee had then seen these, bounced a few ideas around with Dan, then let some advertisers give their thoughts as well
> 
> Hopefully Dan will agree that there's been little interference in the design process
> 
> Final front cover is as you see below


I'm disappointed... A Photoshop fade (poorly done) does FA for me. Really underwhelmed by the cover, sorry.

The retouching is amateur night! FFS!

I'm sorry, but who passed this for print? It really is poor.


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## neilc

Having not seen the magazine yet due to Norfolk post being 3 years slower than the rest of the UK...All I can say is hope my advert looks good. :wink:


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## rustyintegrale

neilc said:


> Having not seen the magazine yet due to Norfolk post being 3 years slower than the rest of the UK...All I can say is hope my advert looks good. :wink:


If the printer knows his stuff your ad will be fine. The front cover? FFS...


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## Gazzer

neilc said:


> Having not seen the magazine yet due to Norfolk post being 3 years slower than the rest of the UK...All I can say is hope my advert looks good. :wink:


oh yes 1/4 page and hot Neil


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## neilc

Gazzer said:


> neilc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having not seen the magazine yet due to Norfolk post being 3 years slower than the rest of the UK...All I can say is hope my advert looks good. :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> oh yes 1/4 page and hot Neil
Click to expand...

Not sure if you are saying if there is a 1/4 page with me looking hot ???? but anyway whatever would be happy with that just to lighten the mood somewhat.


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## jamman

neilc said:


> Having not seen the magazine yet due to Norfolk post being 3 years slower than the rest of the UK...All I can say is hope my advert looks good. :wink:


There's a good looking bloke on it with a cardigan on :wink:

Advert looks fine mate I will email you it now


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## neilc

jamman said:


> neilc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having not seen the magazine yet due to Norfolk post being 3 years slower than the rest of the UK...All I can say is hope my advert looks good. :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a good looking bloke on it with a cardigan on :wink:
> 
> Advert looks fine mate I will email you it now
Click to expand...

Hey you live in Norfolk , your postman must like you.. :wink:

P.s Good looking , hmm thanks..Cardigan ??? WTF :wink:


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## Phil_RS

rustyintegrale said:


> phope said:
> 
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, back in mid March, Dan had come up with some mock article layouts, possible cover designs & logos - the committee had then seen these, bounced a few ideas around with Dan, then let some advertisers give their thoughts as well
> 
> Hopefully Dan will agree that there's been little interference in the design process
> 
> Final front cover is as you see below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm disappointed... A Photoshop fade (poorly done) does FA for me. Really underwhelmed by the cover, sorry.
> 
> The retouching is amateur night! FFS!
> 
> I'm sorry, but who passed this for print? It really is poor.
Click to expand...

Also, I'm not sure if a better quality photo could have been found as its a bit pixelated. I do, however , acknowledge that there is often a requirement to use what is available.

All my points are just me trying to be helpful so future issues improve. It is after all the first edition by this team.


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## rustyintegrale

jamman said:


> There's a good looking bloke on it with a cardigan on :wink:


Woopsie me, this place is full of arpse bandits.

Who wears a cardigan apart from a shirt lifter?


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## jamman

neilc said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> neilc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having not seen the magazine yet due to Norfolk post being 3 years slower than the rest of the UK...All I can say is hope my advert looks good. :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a good looking bloke on it with a cardigan on :wink:
> 
> Advert looks fine mate I will email you it now
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey you live in Norfolk , your postman must like you.. :wink:
> 
> P.s Good looking , hmm thanks..Cardigan ??? WTF :wink:
Click to expand...

Check your mail :wink:


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## neilc

This thread is going seriously off topic.......

P.s Cardigans are the new hoodies... :lol:


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## rustyintegrale

neilc said:


> This thread is going seriously off topic.......
> 
> P.s Cardigans are the new hoodies... :lol:


You girlies can cuddle up together. :wink:


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## neilc

Oh my god that picture has me standing next to a MK1 ...... :wink:

P.s Thanks James , appreciated all of the e-mails :lol:


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## jamman

neilc said:


> P.s Thanks James , appreciated all of the e-mails :lol:


 :wink:


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## rustyintegrale

neilc said:


> Oh my god that picture has me standing next to a MK1 ...... :wink:
> 
> P.s Thanks James , appreciated all of the e-mails :lol:


 :lol: :lol: Bandit.


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## Hev

I demand my thread be brought back on topic :lol:

Hev x
:roll: :lol:


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## jamman

Hev said:


> I demand my thread be brought back on topic :lol:
> 
> Hev x
> :roll: :lol:


Ok I will try Hev...........

Anyone else think the new designer looks a smidgen like "Desperate Dan"


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## paulc1

Hev said:


> I demand my thread be brought back on topic :lol:
> 
> Hev x
> :roll: :lol:


Well I'm loving the new mag and I love seeing my TT looking huge across two pages , well done Dan on a great mag


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## burns

rustyintegrale said:


> phope said:
> 
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, back in mid March, Dan had come up with some mock article layouts, possible cover designs & logos - the committee had then seen these, bounced a few ideas around with Dan, then let some advertisers give their thoughts as well
> 
> Hopefully Dan will agree that there's been little interference in the design process
> 
> Final front cover is as you see below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm disappointed... A Photoshop fade (poorly done) does FA for me. Really underwhelmed by the cover, sorry.
> 
> The retouching is amateur night! FFS!
> 
> I'm sorry, but who passed this for print? It really is poor.
Click to expand...

I'm happy to say that the cover looks infinitely better than that awful A33 cover, with the cut-and-paste dragon! :lol: And Hollie's car looks stunning, as always.

As far as I'm concerned, everything in life is a work in progress; nothing is ever finished or perfect, because the next idea could be even better. So yes, the magazine will develop issue upon issue as ideas evolve and fashions change. I'd also like a thicker cover for the next issue, but I do very much like the satin finish. Gloss is sooo last century.

I'm happy with the overall effect of the magazine - very modern, professional and fresh 8)


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## paulc1

burns said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> phope said:
> 
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, back in mid March, Dan had come up with some mock article layouts, possible cover designs & logos - the committee had then seen these, bounced a few ideas around with Dan, then let some advertisers give their thoughts as well
> 
> Hopefully Dan will agree that there's been little interference in the design process
> 
> Final front cover is as you see below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm disappointed... A Photoshop fade (poorly done) does FA for me. Really underwhelmed by the cover, sorry.
> 
> The retouching is amateur night! FFS!
> 
> I'm sorry, but who passed this for print? It really is poor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm happy to say that the cover looks infinitely better than that awful A33 cover, with the cut-and-paste dragon! :lol: And Hollie's car looks stunning, as always.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, everything in life is a work in progress; nothing is ever finished or perfect, because the next idea could be even better. So yes, the magazine will develop issue upon issue as ideas evolve and fashions change. I'd also like a thicker cover for the next issue, but I do very much like the satin finish. Gloss is sooo last century.
> 
> I'm happy with the overall effect of the magazine - very modern, professional and fresh 8)
Click to expand...

Sara and co the mag looks and feels great just remember " you can please some of the people some of the time ,but you can't please all of the people all of the time "


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## Phil_RS

Let's just remember they asked for members opinion before we start getting into the "you can only please some people!" comments.

They have done an infinately better job than I could ever imagine doing and it's no easy task as I'm sat here comparing it to "Evo" which I rate very highly (and interestingly has a glossy cover). But they asked for comments which are being provided and are, on the whole (although I except maybe not 100%) constructive feedback.


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## Audiphil

Phil,

Good points well made.


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## jamman

Phil I'm sure your comments will be taken on board mate and are appreciated.

Your attention to the details makes me think you would make a good proof reader I might nominate you mate.


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## Templar

All in all I think its a very good first issue to a new look which I believe was needed and brings it more up to date. Sure the mag will evolve as time moves forward and a little more time can be spent tailoring individual aspects. For now I think a good job has been done for a total overhaul, so credit where its due to the team.


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## Wallsendmag

Anything has to be better than cutting and pasting a gargoyle onto the front cover. The thing is WE (I can say that as I already re-elected) will listen to constructive criticism .

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## jamman

Wallsendmag said:


> Anything has to be better than cutting and pasting a gargoyle onto the front cover. The thing is WE (I can say that as I already re-elected) will listen to constructive criticism .
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


Andy you need two new defenders, a midfielder and someone who knows where the net is. :wink: 0-6


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## Mrs Wallsendmag

We know that, tell us something we don't know


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## Bartsimpsonhead

Gazzer said:


> btw first new ttoc mag and we put a ttf car on it


Given how much criticism there was of the TTOC cars showing scratches and swirl marks from the pics of the show, they probably used the best alternative pic they could - all that retouching in PS might've put the publication back another week! [smiley=bigcry.gif] 
Joking aside, Hollies is such a lovely car. [smiley=sunny.gif]

Still, the cover looks OK. I can see what some are saying about it looking better of gloss paper (with hi-gloss cars, and PS fades, matte paper wouldn't add anything). A reduced colour palette is defiantly better - I've worked on a few mags in the past where the client wanted multi-coloured pages and they were absolute shockers!! But still, he who pays has the final word...

And plenty of white space. it's like air for the eyes - gives them time to breath before moving onto the next item. An old boss of mine used the maxim "nobody ever complains about having too much - if there's a space on a page fill it with something!" Again, more shockers.

I look forward to browsing through it in the TTS reception sometime...


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## Phil_RS

jamman said:


> Phil I'm sure your comments will be taken on board mate and are appreciated.
> 
> Your attention to the details makes me think you would make a good proof reader I might nominate you mate.


Go for it. I'd actually be quite happy to proof read it, it's something fairly distinct rather than an on going committee role that I just wouldn't have enough time for.


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## jamman

Phil_RS said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Phil I'm sure your comments will be taken on board mate and are appreciated.
> 
> Your attention to the details makes me think you would make a good proof reader I might nominate you mate.
> 
> 
> 
> Go for it. I'd actually be quite happy to proof read it, it's something fairly distinct rather than an on going committee role that I just wouldn't have enough time for.
Click to expand...

I've passed your offer onto the designer


----------



## knickers

In response to Hev's original post......

Having returned yesterday from a TT free 10 days in Cornwall in the "family" car we run alongside my beautiful MK1 roadster, I was understandably delighted to see my TTOC envelope peeking out from all of the other dross post..... Having ripped it open, I'm sad to say I was slightly underwhelmed, maybe even a little disappointed.

I openly admit that I have kept myself out of most of the recent disagreements in the club, as I feel I am not experienced enough on either side to comment -I don't fully understand both sides, and I hardly know most of the people involved. My decision to maintain a low profile on the forum means that I had missed that there was to be a redesign of AbsoluTTe!!!

As feedback has been requested, here is mine!

My initial impression was that it felt much cheaper than the glossy I was used to. As for content, I have always felt that the old mag struck nicely the balance between those that want to modify their drive, and those that want to appreciate the TT the way Audi intended. When I quickly flicked through the mag today, I truly felt that this has been lost.

Personally I'm not a fan of the overuse of technical gimmickery in photographs, but that is very much my preference. The TT is a fabulous piece of design which, in my opinion, doesn't need much to enhance it! Design is by it's very nature personal - you can never please everyone, but style should never take precedence over substance.

Having said all this, I couldn't have done the job myself and I applaud the design team for taking on the job, and I hope the magazine continues to evolve. Please please please please try and avoid the pitfalls of many of the "performance" magazines (max power et al) which seem to be aimed at the local 17 year olds who have just got hold of their nan's saxo clitoris or pug 106, and turned it into a lowered monstrosity which booms and pststs around the car park of the local macdonalds, scraping its bottom on each and every speed bump.

Thanks for listening - I hope this adds to the other useful comments you have received.

Cheers

Nicki


----------



## Marco34

I have to agree with Nicki above. I appreciate a lot of effort has been put into this but it left me underwhelmed to the point where I have read it but felt like it was lacking in depth. It's rather contemporary but I can live with that if the content is good. I stopped subscribing to Audi Driver because of the content and I feel similar with the Absolutte. Audi Driver moved away from technical articles and covering older models to always looking at the latest RS high performance models and features on cars that looked like something from Ultimate Dubs. A lot of heavy modding which isn't for me. Not sure why Ultimate Dubs makes a headline in a TT magazine.

The technical features are sorely missed for me. It seems more effort has been made to modernise the look than the content.

My experience has not been too great of the TTOC in general recently. We had local issues at the North West meets which escalated up and saw a very good rep decide to resign; now we have the TTOC committee throwing mud at each other regarding all sorts of issues. I'm not seeing much value for the membership right now and not sure whether I would bother to renew; my love for the TT has not changed, even with other cars interesting me.

Fortunately we have been appointed a new rep and have some new NW members who are bringing enthusiasm and cruises to the meets. I hope there is a turn around in the way the TTOC behaves and appoints/removes it's committee members. I may be then tempted to renew. A bit of the old mag style would also be good.

Regards.


----------



## neilc

Well I got my magazine this morning and I have to say well done everyone involved , it has some interesting stories and features , seems well laid out. So I don't really see anything to much that worries me as we are not really aiming this publication to compete at the likes of EVO magazine or the like. You have to remember it's a club magazine and in my opinion a good one too.


----------



## Templar

Digressing slightly, who's rear end is on full view on the front of the mag ?


----------



## jamman

Templar said:


> Digressing slightly, who's rear end is on full view on the front of the mag ?


Hollies big ass......


----------



## Templar

jamman said:


> Templar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Digressing slightly, who's rear end is on full view on the front of the mag ?
> 
> 
> 
> Hollies big ass......
Click to expand...

Haha.. never had a good look before, looks well prepared and shiney


----------



## John-H

I'm not commenting on this "design" as I've not seen the final version. I would say however that there seems to be some confusion in understanding over the roles of designer and editor. It's the editor that deals with coordination of proof reading and carries responsibility for errors spelling grammar etc - also a legal responsibility for libel or copyright and with issues of trust e.g. with articles written by advertisers. The designer is responsible for the style and looks and the two roles are distinctly different. I wouldn't dream of interfering with the designer's role nor his with mine.

I've explained things in more detail in this link and included one of our previous designer Richard's design "visuals" which he was working on prior to having the designer's role removed from him without discussion. Members should be comparing Dan's design with this at least rather than with Richard's three year old design.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=334649

I would like to know please how much money Dan was paid for his design to compare also?

The printing process is another issue nothing to do with design as I've also explained and a separate choice of quality between "digital print" inkjet type printing and lithographic offset on a press. Such things can be changed.

Perhaps when I've seen the issue I'll comment on the "design" but my comments here are concerned with production.


----------



## Phil_RS

neilc said:


> Well I got my magazine this morning and I have to say well done everyone involved , it has some interesting stories and features , seems well laid out. So I don't really see anything to much that worries me as we are not really aiming this publication to compete at the likes of EVO magazine or the like. You have to remember it's a club magazine and in my opinion a good one too.


It's a good point (my reference to Evo was more about the glossy cover)

Interestingly if we all compared this to other armature magazines I'm sure we would think it was amazing.


----------



## Bartsimpsonhead

What size is Absolutte? Number of pages? Since I'm only going to see one in the reception of a garage (or on the club stand at EvenTT) I'd be interested to know.

My company use SRA3 sized Litho printing plates and they're about £10 each (cost.) So for an 16-page A4 sized mag it'd cost: 
2x A4 pages per plate, four plates (CMYK) per 2-page spread = £40
8x 2-page spreads (per 16 page mag) = £320 for printing plates alone. And that's or any number of mags printed (from 1 to 20,000+)

Digital printing should be cheaper for short runs, and there doesnt have to be a minimum number in the run for digital copies (so if the printers are telling the committee there's a 400 copy minimum - they're conning them!)

Litho still produces better quality printing (especially for solid colour blocks), but is more expensive for short runs/cheaper for larger numbers.


----------



## tim_s

Hi All,

First, I'd like to qualify my feedback.

I would never class myself as a designer and, although I'm fairly useful with Photoshop (from my days as a freelance Product/Wedding/Corporate Event/Landscape photographer) and InDesign (see below), I couldn't create a magazine on my own without the help of a designer who can bring a visual concept together into something attractive and inviting.

That said, I do have a decade of experience working as a journalist, of which four years were spent working in print as an Editor at one of the UK's leading publishers across a couple of market-leading technology magazines - a certain enthusiast's car magazine is also published by them for the Internet Detectives who would like to work out which publisher I am talking about.

Second, I haven't read the whole magazine yet and have only managed to flick through it, so my feedback is not going to be about the editorial (that said, I really enjoyed the content in ABSOLUTTE 33, and look forward to reading this issue!) it's more about general first impressions as a reader and the use of page furniture.

Please also note that I'm fairly 'new' here so I do not take sides in the recent shenanigans in the Committee - to be honest, I started reading the related threads and got bored. I just want to be part of a well-run club with a great magazine. I have a lot of passion for my car - something I'm sure I share with every other member here - and that's what ultimately brings us together.

*First Impressions*
My first impressions of the magazine are that it feels more like a brochure than a magazine.

The quality of paper used for the cover is not high enough and the inside pages might be of too higher-quality. Don't get me wrong here, higher quality paper is good, but the need to balance the cost of paper is one that needs to be considered. The quality of paper used for the inside pages is fine, but using a higher quality paper for the cover may mean there's a need to offer slightly lower quality paper inside in order to keep costs the same. It's a balancing act.

There needs to be a clear difference between 'cover' and 'content page', in my opinion, in order to drop the brochure feeling and make it feel more like a magazine. The reason for this is that you then get a feeling that the content is 'bound' inside a high-quality cover. It also 'feels' like a magazine, rather than like a brochure or pamphlet. The binding technique also implies this too - most magazines are bound by string, whereas staples have been used here. Again, it's a cost thing and it may be that because the magazine's content is limited (this isn't a criticism), string-binding might be too expensive or unrealistic - I'm just throwing my thoughts on the table in this regard.

*Cover*
The front cover image either has some artifacting that's either a result of over-sharpening or isn't of high enough resolution. I'm leaning towards the latter as the moment you turn the cover, the images on the inside cover and contents page seem of higher quality.

That said, the cover design mostly works if the magazine was on a news stand. However, given that we're all subscribers, I'm not sure how much of the information on the front page is redundant? Cover lines are mainly used to sell the magazine to casual buyers who're looking for something to interesting to read in WH Smiths, Tescos or A.N. Other place where there's a news stand.

*Contents*
No issues - everything is clearly laid out. Background image looks to be of sufficient resolution.

*pp4-5*
I'm not sure if there's a need for the whole first paragraph to be emboldened to invite me into reading the first article. A good technique to use is an over-sized first letter that aims to invite you into reading the article - it adds an element of style and, as a reader, helps break up the wall of text.

Pull quotes also work quite well - there's a lot of text in the article on page 5, so a pull quote might help break it up. Images also help in this regard. As do headings.

*pp6-7*
The top left corner of this spread is a little bit too dark. It's difficult to read the first column of text because the background is too dark in this part of the page. The text on page 7 is fine though.

Otherwise, the page design is attractive.

*pp8-9*
The change in text colour, but similar background image (in terms of colour/brightness) is almost an admission of the problems with text readability on the previous page.

*pp10-111*
A clear layout direction that works _fairly_ well, but it is not perfect. My personal preference would be for black text on a white background unless there's a background image. Large blocks of black aren't that attractive - it might've worked better if the page was black with white boxes and small, ~2mm black borders around the images to help preventing them from blending into the text.

*pp12-13*
It seems strange that _ABSOLUTTE_ is missing from the bottom of page 13. Otherwise, the page works well - apart from a few more headlines and/or pull quotes to break the spread up a bit.

*pp14-15*
The white text on black background works much better here. Nice page design.

*pp16-17*
A couple of headers would help here, but otherwise looks good.

*pp18-19*
Not sure why the _ABSOLUTTE_ logo moved to the left-hand page? There's also no page number on p19, which seems a bit strange given that both bottom corners of the spread seem to be of similar luminosity.

*pp20-21*
p20 - preference would be for a more inviting background colour than black - red might match the pull quote on p21?
p21 - just needs something to break the text up a bit more. Headings, etc. If I recall (it's three years since I worked in the publishing industry), we used to work to a rule of three or four paragraphs - at maximum - before it was time for another heading. It just helps break the page up a bit.

*pp22-23*
I like this spread, apart from the previous comments about breaking the text up into bite-sized chunks.

*pp24-25*
Same issues as pp18-19.

*pp26-27*
A good spread.

*pp28-29*
The spread works, but is missing an _ABSOLUTTE_ logo and I'm not too sure about the repetition of the wireframe drawings at the top/bottom. The bottom wireframes seem to sacrifice some consistency (i.e. the logo).
There also need to be a heading or two to break up the blocks of text.

*pp30-31*
The image works really well, but it maybe needs a paragraph of text to introduce the article. Again, there's the page number/logo inconsistencies.

*pp32-33*
Refer to my comments about background consistency on pp20-21... might work better with the pull quote in the same colour as the background on the preceding page.

*pp34-35*
This spread works well.

*pp36-37*
Ditto

*pp38-39*
Ditto

*pp40-41*
Needs an introductory paragraph to connect it to the following pages, but otherwise the spread is fine.

*pp42-43*
Either a pull quote or a couple of headings would help break up the text.

*pp44-45*
They're ads, no need to comment. 

*pp46-47*
The spread works well.

*Additional observation*
Some graphic(s) that acts as a way of indicating that an article continues over multiple pages (at its most basic... ->) or has finished (..._TT_) would help with navigation through the articles.

As I say above, I hope this is seen as useful/constructive criticism - I've got a fair amount of experience in publishing and, if I had time outside of work, I'd love to offer a helping hand with the magazine. Unfortunately I just cannot guarantee my reliability because I quite often have to travel across the world at very short notice (the shortest notice being 'you need to fly to Taiwan this afternoon').

On the whole, I think it's a good first stab at creating a new look for the magazine. I have been through a few magazine design overhauls and they are not simple - there's a lot more to think about than is immediately obvious to the reader. It's that attention to detail that sets a good design apart from a great design, though!

I understand it's a work in progress - I look forward to reading this issue and seeing how things develop going forwards. I hope to be at EvenTT later this month, so look forward to putting some faces to usernames. 

Thanks and sorry for the long post.

Tim


----------



## John-H

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> What size is Absolutte? Number of pages? Since I'm only going to see one in the reception of a garage (or on the club stand at EvenTT) I'd be interested to know.
> 
> My company use SRA3 sized Litho printing plates and they're about £10 each (cost.) So for an 16-page A4 sized mag it'd cost:
> 2x A4 pages per plate, four plates (CMYK) per 2-page spread = £40
> 8x 2-page spreads (per 16 page mag) = £320 for printing plates alone. And that's or any number of mags printed (from 1 to 20,000+)
> 
> Digital printing should be cheaper for short runs, and there doesnt have to be a minimum number in the run for digital copies (so if the printers are telling the committee there's a 400 copy minimum - they're conning them!)
> 
> Litho still produces better quality printing (especially for solid colour blocks), but is more expensive for short runs/cheaper for larger numbers.


Hi Bart,

Sorry it's taken me a while to find the information as I have my editor.committee accounts blocked etc. This is what we have had for magazine print bar this new one:

Frequency: Quarterly
Quantity: 600
Size 297 x 210 mm portrait
Extent: 40pp text plus 4pp cover
Cover material: 170gsm Woodfree Gloss
Printing: 4 colour process throughout
Cover finish: UV Gloss Varnish to outside of covers
Finishing: Saddle stitched

Printing inclusive of delivery in cartons: £1,450


----------



## phope

Actually, print costs of old magazine were £1513.33 and were also due to rise soon


----------



## Phil_RS

phope said:


> Actually, print costs of old magazine were £1513.33 and were also due to rise soon


How does that compare with this new magazine?


----------



## phope

On a price per page basis, the same

We now have flexibility to order smaller print runs rather than the minimum 600 of the other option


----------



## phope

I seem to remember when we paid the last print bill, the printers had indicated that the likely print bill next time for the same again would be around £1550 instead of £1513, citing increases in cost of paper, blah, blah, blah


----------



## Bartsimpsonhead

So £1513 per 600 copies - £2.52 per mag to print - ouch! That's expensive. Still, interesting to know for 3-4 copies a year where the extra £20 for premium membership (over web membership) is going.

Not having the new mags cover laminated would bring the cost down a bit (being a separate machine to the digital printer), and with no minimum print run I imagine its a fare bit cheaper to produce too = more profits for the clubs funds!
Dare I say they could almost afford to reduce the cost of premium membership (given the reduced costs) and increase the number of premium members (who doesn't love a £5 discount?!?)


----------



## phope

And that's before adding in costs of design and postage.


----------



## Bartsimpsonhead

At least you're saving roughly £320 per issue cost by not having to pay for printing plates thanks to the digital printing.
Well, I hope you're saving it - otherwise it's just going into the printers back pocket as profit.

Gotta love pdfs - long gone are the days when we use to output colour separations to film on phototypesetters, before even making the plates. Paste-up is just a distant memory.
But it's a shame they don't sell the mag as a pdf/digital edition since all of the work and costs have been paid for anyway.. (Mark Knopfler would approve)


----------



## Wallsendmag

Send all the free chicks this way please

Sent from a fruity device


----------



## Bartsimpsonhead

My word. I've been neglecting my sums - given the specs John's supplied as a 44 page A4 mag, the cost of the printing plates alone would be:
44/2 = 22 spreads (2 x A4 pages per plate) x 4 plates per spread (CMYK) = 88 plates @ £10 each per issue = £880!

So using the digital printer and doing away with printing plates altogether the production cost (irrespective of numbers of copies ordered) should be at least £880 less. Ok, they'll add a bit on to cover wear and tare to the new digital printer, and the inks will be more expensive (as DP's still use whopping big ink cartridges), but still, production costs should be cheaper by a chunk of money. And Phope says the price per page is roughly the same..?


----------



## Gazzer

make sure ya sums are right Martin lol, mind i am sure the committee can supply all printing costings if required including dan the new guys costs.
on a different note do shark performance actually sponsor the club mag? and can verification be supplied of all sponsorship deals.


----------



## MonTheFish

Gazzer said:


> make sure ya sums are right Martin lol, mind i am sure the committee can supply all printing costings if required including dan the new guys costs.
> on a different note do shark performance actually sponsor the club mag? and can verification be supplied of all sponsorship deals.


Garry I do hope your not being played here mate.....because its starting to sound like John has a little list and he's working his way through it in the run up to the voting......


----------



## Gazzer

MonTheFish said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> 
> make sure ya sums are right Martin lol, mind i am sure the committee can supply all printing costings if required including dan the new guys costs.
> on a different note do shark performance actually sponsor the club mag? and can verification be supplied of all sponsorship deals.
> 
> 
> 
> Garry I do hope your not being played here mate.....because its starting to sound like John has a little list and he's working his way through it in the run up to the voting......
Click to expand...

have not spoken to john in a week now, however i have been going back through mags and sponsors associated with and on here and cannot see any shark sponsors.........so only asking tbh. oh did receive a good joke txt from my owld boss offering me a starting salary of 30k if i wanted to come back


----------



## MonTheFish

I do hope John has spent more time on preparing what he is bringing to the club than destroying those that are in it....


----------



## Gazzer

MonTheFish said:


> I do hope John has spent more time on preparing what he is bringing to the club than destroying those that are in it....


ahh the benefit now is that i am on the outside looking in asking questions. god knows about john m8 i fully understand what he is saying but tbh all of this committee crap does my head. if 90% of the membership havn't kicked up 5hit over john being expelled illegaly then why should i as an outsider either lol. i'm just asking questions as i am a tad bored and also trying to move my mind away from family things at present.


----------



## peter-ss

TT Owners Club said:


> The feedback is great guys - keep it coming, both positive and negative


Firstly I would like to say well done to all of the people who have been involved in the production of AbsoluTTe 34. Whatever people's opinions of the magazine are I'm sure there's been a lot of time and effort put into it.

My first impression of the magazine was good as I quite liked the matte finish and the fresh minimalist design.

The majority of the material is good but, for me, the magazine is lacking in technical articles.

There's the odd mistake, which really should have been spotted by prior to printing and, call me old fashioned but there's some language in there that really shouldn't have made it into print.

The print quality is slightly disappointing in that if you touch the magazine with anything other than a bone dry finger, it smudges. Bearing in mind that the magazines are often on display at events this could be a problem.

As we had a few visitors, on Saturday, I took the opportunity throughout the day to ask people their opinion on the magazines. I presented them with a copy of AbsoluTTe 32 (not the one with the dragon) and AbsoluTTe 34, asking the question "Which of these magazines looks more professional?". Out of the five people that had a flick through the magazines, all of them said that they thought AbsoluTTe 32 was best. Another visitor tonight also said that the old version looked more professional and commented that AbsoluTTe 32 had more content about members than AbsoluTTe 34.

In summary my overall view is that it's good but would be better if printed using the usual method, the content could have done with being scrutinised by an editor with a good attention to detail and I'd have preferred an amalgamation of the old and new design.


----------



## jamman

Good balanced post Peter but then again I wouldn't expect anything else.


----------



## Gazzer

jamman said:


> Good balanced post Peter but then again I wouldn't expect anything else.


+1 but then again will it be taken into consideration James?


----------



## jamman

I don't see why not .



TT Owners Club said:


> The feedback is great guys - keep it coming, both positive and negative


----------



## Bartsimpsonhead

Gazzer said:


> make sure ya sums are right Martin lol, mind i am sure the committee can supply all printing costings if required including dan the new guys costs.


Being in the business (at least on the crayons (pre-press) side of things) I'm just curious on the numbers and leave the print quotes up to the boss - though I am half tempted to ask him for a quote just out of interest - £2.50-odd to print one magazine (all be it litho and not including paying the designer and postage costs) is a hell of a lot of money for a magazine...


----------



## jamman

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> Being in the business (at least on the crayons (pre-press) side of things) I'm just curious on the numbers and leave the print quotes up to the boss - though I am half tempted to ask him for a quote just out of interest - £2.50-odd to print one magazine (all be it litho and not including paying the designer and postage costs) is a hell of a lot of money for a magazine...


Can't see it can do any harm Bart can it ?


----------



## MonTheFish

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> 
> make sure ya sums are right Martin lol, mind i am sure the committee can supply all printing costings if required including dan the new guys costs.
> 
> 
> 
> Being in the business (at least on the crayons (pre-press) side of things) I'm just curious on the numbers and leave the print quotes up to the boss - though I am half tempted to ask him for a quote just out of interest - £2.50-odd to print one magazine (all be it litho and not including paying the designer and postage costs) is a hell of a lot of money for a magazine...
Click to expand...

These are the types of leads that I'm sure the committee would love to catch...I just hope it's not buried so far inside all John's sniping that they don't see it...wood for the tree's and that


----------



## Gazzer

is it mon or fish lol? ok too many things have gone on that are say against the rules of the constitution that some have come out and some havn't as yet maybe. transparency is a word bandied around so often in these kind of threads and yet anything but transparency is going on.
PERKS: every company gets offered them and i don't see it as a problem as long as it is notified in minutes somewhere so it isn't then a skeleton awaiting to be found.

nicks audi trip not a problem to me tbh if he does a good write up about it.
sara's free bonnet respray again isnt a problem until it gets out in the open and isn't minuted that it happened and why.
John's free mag exchange that andrew went tits over once again.....its giving one to receive one so doesn't really count tbh. (should still be minuted)

so i only asked about shark performance as they are in the mag a lot, well every mag and yet not on here as a sponsor and i just asked a question.


----------



## jamman

Gaz this thread is about the magazine why are you going off topic about perks etc :?

Shark Performance being advertisers or sponsors yeah that's something right close to your heart.

Last time I checked you didn't have to sponsor TTF to advertise in the TTOC magazine :?

Can you see the strings Mon ?

I thought you had lost all interest at 12pm the other night ?


----------



## MonTheFish

I'll answer to most things gaz

I have no doubt john is on full spin mode and has spent the last few months speaking with others and planning out exactly what "nuggets" he wants to release to make the current committee look bad. It's doing nothing good for the club or for his integrity as a person.

It's worth bearing in mind that John has only been missing from the committee for a short period of time compared to his overall stint in there and as I see it he is just as responsible for all the shit he's throwing about as the rest of the committee....maybe he should bear that more in mind.


----------



## Gazzer

jamman said:


> Gaz this thread is about the magazine why are you going off topic about perks etc :?
> 
> Shark Performance being advertisers or sponsors yeah that's something right close to your heart.
> 
> Last time I checked you didn't have to sponsor TTF to advertise in the TTOC magazine :?
> 
> Can you see the strings Mon ?
> 
> I thought you had lost all interest at 12pm the other night ?


i thought the sponsors on here that ttoc brought in were auto within the system of sponsors james. we have awesome as sponsors on here and yet (may be wrong bud) not sure i have seen them in my mags over last years supplied.


----------



## Gazzer

MonTheFish said:


> I'll answer to most things gaz
> 
> I have no doubt john is on full spin mode and has spent the last few months speaking with others and planning out exactly what "nuggets" he wants to release to make the current committee look bad. It's doing nothing good for the club or for his integrity as a person.
> 
> It's worth bearing in mind that John has only been missing from the committee for a short period of time compared to his overall stint in there and as I see it he is just as responsible for all the shit he's throwing about as the rest of the committee....maybe he should bear that more in mind.


ok how about Monsier fish? sounds sexy lol............ 8) dude you.

not just john is it bud.......all of the friends of the committee have also been on spin in a big way tbh. ok cards on table certain members are not happy to ask questions for fear of being quesioned and interrogated back. so a couple asked me to fire some bits off and i have. ok done and dusted as no answers have come back i can go back to being me on the ttf (pain in the bum)


----------



## jamman

Gazzer said:


> ok cards on table certain members are not happy to ask questions for fear of being quesioned and interrogated back. so a couple asked me to fire some bits off and i have. ok done and dusted as no answers have come back


So just as Mon suggested the questions weren't yours.

You were lying the other night about flicking through your mags etc etc

Great well done Gaz


----------



## MonTheFish

Fair play gaz....it was obvious to me and by the looks of things a few others that questions were being farmed out. You have a bit more integrity in my eyes for admitting this.


----------



## Gazzer

jamman said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ok cards on table certain members are not happy to ask questions for fear of being quesioned and interrogated back. so a couple asked me to fire some bits off and i have. ok done and dusted as no answers have come back
> 
> 
> 
> So just as Mon suggested the questions weren't yours.
> 
> You were lying the other night about flicking through your mags etc etc
> 
> Great well done Gaz
Click to expand...

no james i got into a chat with some from here off line and they asked why shark are in the mag as not top ratedamongst you elite mapper worshippers. so i looked into my own mags and on here the ttf........so no i wasn't lying i was asking for facts?
is that ok with your'e new agenda?


----------



## MonTheFish

I'm sure John would be able to answer that Gaz given he was the editor at the time.


----------



## Gazzer

MonTheFish said:


> Fair play gaz....it was obvious to me and by the looks of things a few others that questions were being farmed out. You have a bit more integrity in my eyes for admitting this.


love your avatar tbh...............dohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

ask me a Q and you will always get a straight answer tbh.............minds it does depend if i have had a bottle of red in all honesty.


----------



## Gazzer

MonTheFish said:


> I'm sure John would be able to answer that Gaz given he was the editor at the time.


i did ask monsier fishy with breadcrumbs and mayo................

god am peckish right now lol, i did ask john this question about two weeks ago and got a no understandee answer.
omg you lot mid week are late birds.......off to bed as early start.


----------



## wja96

Gazzer said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ok cards on table certain members are not happy to ask questions for fear of being quesioned and interrogated back. so a couple asked me to fire some bits off and i have. ok done and dusted as no answers have come back
> 
> 
> 
> So just as Mon suggested the questions weren't yours.
> 
> You were lying the other night about flicking through your mags etc etc
> 
> Great well done Gaz
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no james i got into a chat with some from here off line and they asked why shark are in the mag as not top ratedamongst you elite mapper worshippers. so i looked into my own mags and on here the ttf........so no i wasn't lying i was asking for facts?
> is that ok with your'e new agenda?
Click to expand...

I don't recall Shark Performance being in the magazine apart from being paying advertisers (quite often the back cover advertiser), they are, I believe, TTOC sponsors (they certainly offer 20% off for members) and they have been at the last 3 EvenTTs as trade sponsors so I'm not really sure what you're trying to say apart, obviously, from "Thanks Shark for supporting the TTOC".

Unless, of course, you're implying that Shark are somehow funding the delusional John-H's breakaway TTOC?


----------



## John-H

Gazzer said:


> MonTheFish said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure John would be able to answer that Gaz given he was the editor at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> i did ask monsier fishy with breadcrumbs and mayo................
> 
> god am peckish right now lol, i did ask john this question about two weeks ago and got a no understandee answer.
> omg you lot mid week are late birds.......off to bed as early start.
Click to expand...

Yes I was asked the question and no I don't know the full details. Nick initially asked me to include the first two Shark adverts and was sorting things out with them because he knew them. I wouldn't then see any communications over payments if they went straight to the treasurer but Peter would probably know. I don't think there was an agreement about the last one placed in A33 as we ran out of time. What's on the back cover for A34?



MonTheFish said:


> I'll answer to most things gaz
> 
> I have no doubt john is on full spin mode and has spent the last few months speaking with others and planning out exactly what "nuggets" he wants to release to make the current committee look bad. It's doing nothing good for the club or for his integrity as a person.
> 
> It's worth bearing in mind that John has only been missing from the committee for a short period of time compared to his overall stint in there and as I see it he is just as responsible for all the shlt he's throwing about as the rest of the committee....maybe he should bear that more in mind.


Davey,

You do me a disservice. I've always acted in members interests like when I stood firm in support of the alliance with the TT Forum against you, Trev (who asked me to jump ship) and Nick and Andrew's desire to split off from TTF and set up their own rival public TTOC forum. I said it wouldn't work and you all fell out with me over this. This is where the bad feeling came from and what caused the arguments because I wouldn't fall in with the clique. The pro TTF contingent on the committee were in the majority then but I think I cemented my fate when against Nick's wishes I contacted the new TTF owners to continue the admin/moderation and revenue share agreement. Although things settled down for a while and we had a good evenTT12 I got criticised for helping sort out the evenTT12 traders with Dani, then Andrew spammed the forum with what we had been told was confidential information about the new owners just as the revenue share payment was due to us. With Mervyn and Robb having left the committee and Sara joining, the gang of four then formed, the balance shifted and moves to distance the TTOC from TTF were again being made - which is when I spoke out to warn members and got "dumped" by the gang.

Integrity? It's acting in members interests where integrity lies. We should all be working together to a common aim not trying to factionalise and we should certainly consult first before jeopardising what's been built. I don't think members will entertain a split now it's been highlighted so that isn't the argument anymore. It's sad that bad feelings are still pulling the strings from that time and I would ask that this is now put behind us and we get back to running a club and a forum as best we can for our members.


----------



## Nyxx

:lol: :lol:


----------



## tim_s

John-H said:


> Integrity? It's acting in members interests where integrity lies. We should all be working together to a common aim not trying to factionalise and we should certainly consult first before jeopardising what's been built. I don't think members will entertain a split now it's been highlighted so that isn't the argument anymore. It's sad that bad feelings are still pulling the strings from that time and I would ask that this is now put behind us and we get back to running a club and a forum as best we can for our members.


Great paragraph. Thank you.


----------



## burns

John, there has NEVER been any discussion of a split from the TTF since I have been on the committee. In fact, the only person who has raised it is you!

Please stop suggesting that because I work well with other members of the committee, that we have some hidden agenda or conspiracy. This is simply untrue. A working relationship is just that. If friendships are formed along the way, that's great. But the only committee members I knew beforehand were you and Dani; the tone of your post suggests that I had an alliance with other members and then joined the committee. This is untrue. I joined the committee and then had my eyes opened. Yes, some friendships have formed as a consequence, but isn't that what the club is about?

Those of us who have been actively working to keep the club running have just been getting on with business as usual, nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## Callum-TT

Guys as a new member I feel I should say something.

These discussions recently between past and present committee members is dragging the TTOC through the mud.

Honestly if I wasn't already a fully paid up member I would think twice about passing my money to a club that on the face of it can not seem to get along and for some reason seem very happy to air dirty laundry in public.

As past and present committee members you should be working together to help promote the TTOC in a positive light regardless of personal issues and arguments.

This thread was set up by Hev to discuss the first issue of the new look TTOC mag yet since that first page there has been bitching and arguing with accusations thrown all over by various members and non-members which is not only off topic but damaging to both the forum atmosphere and the TTOC "family".

Can we all please grow up a little bit, act like adults and stop bitching for the good of the club otherwise the club may well fail.

Thanks

Callum


----------



## Callum-TT

Now to get this thread back on topic.

Got my issue a few days ago and I was actually quite impressed. The cover is the only part I was not 100% keen on. Some of the write ups were very good and I picked up some ideas for what to do to my TT which is one of the best things about a make specific mag.

One question though, would it be worthwhile to have a "members cars / parts for sale" section at the back, like a classifieds section. Non members could buy ad space but members get it free.

Just something to consider.

Good first effort and I look forward to the next issue.


----------



## Bartsimpsonhead

Sorry Callum, I think the idea of a For Sale/ads section at the back is a bad idea - with the magazine being supposedly quarterly and with the production schedule/publication date slipping from time to time people would be sitting on their stuff for far too long before it was sold - or they'd sell it on the TTF or eBay long before the magazine came out.

As for airing the Clubs dirty laundry in public - if the committee isn't working, and the membership doesn't know about it, how would we know to change it through our right to vote? Things would just continue as they were, which might be complacent, lazy and against the clubs best interests. We have a right to know...


----------



## Callum-TT

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> Sorry Callum, I think the idea of a For Sale/ads section at the back is a bad idea - with the magazine being supposedly quarterly and with the production schedule/publication date slipping from time to time people would be sitting on their stuff for far too long before it was sold - or they'd sell it on the TTF or eBay long before the magazine came out.
> 
> As for airing the Clubs dirty laundry in public - if the committee isn't working, and the membership doesn't know about it, how would we know to change it through our right to vote? Things would just continue as they were, which might be complacent, lazy and against the clubs best interests. We have a right to know...


Whilst I do agree maybe there should be a better way of airing these issues without taking a thread massively off topic. We as members do have a right to know if there is issues affecting the committee but personal issues should not be affecting the running of the club.

I do agree with you on the for sale part though,


----------



## John-H

burns said:


> John, there has NEVER been any discussion of a split from the TTF since I have been on the committee. In fact, the only person who has raised it is you!
> 
> Please stop suggesting that because I work well with other members of the committee, that we have some hidden agenda or conspiracy. This is simply untrue. A working relationship is just that. If friendships are formed along the way, that's great. But the only committee members I knew beforehand were you and Dani; the tone of your post suggests that I had an alliance with other members and then joined the committee. This is untrue. I joined the committee and then had my eyes opened. Yes, some friendships have formed as a consequence, but isn't that what the club is about?
> 
> Those of us who have been actively working to keep the club running have just been getting on with business as usual, nothing more, nothing less.


Sara, don't take my word for it - ask Dani, Steve, Mervyn and Robb who were on the committee at that time about the moves to separate from TTF and the struggle we had with Nick, Andrew, Trev and Davey who wanted to split off and make the TTOC members' area a rival public forum. Of course they didn't say to you 'lets plot to split from TTF' when you joined the committee but for different reasons you formed an alliance with Nick and Andrew and Peter was drawn in. Then with Nick bringing in Harrison and Thomas the balance of power was changed and moves could be made.

Look what happened: Motion to withdraw TTOC admin and moderation from TTF putting the advertising revenue share scheme in jeopardy (which I had to step in to protect). Motion to remove the TTOC market place fast track along with discussion to set up a TTOC market place. Motion to remove the banner "Home to the TTOC" from the TTF website and an illegal vote to remove the pro TTF magazine editor from the committee.

Whether this was retribution for my past refusal to split or a move to prepare the way for a possible later split I don't know but when Steve and I spoke out to warn members and Mark Davies joined and banged enough heads together to introduce democracy and give back control to members it was not then going to happen.

I accept you knew nothing of the history and motivations but what's imporant now is that we all put that in the past and move on and work to a common aim. Can you help?


----------



## burns

It's already in the past, John. The only person bringing it up (again!) is you :roll:


----------



## John-H

These are current and future motions for debate - look at the motions up for AGM debate. I had to step in to rescue the revenue share only last week, why had that not been persued? I'm still disconnected from committee process as have been others even with access on the committee because of a clique. The future of the magazine is at stake with a proposal that the committee carry on producing it collectively rather than give the job to one person with the single minded determination and experience to pull it through and free up everyone else. Nick originally stated you would produce two issues before EvenTT13 and whilst you've all worked very hard to get one issue together and I'm impressed by your efforts, it has taken up too much committee time and prevented other committee business happening and from comments Ive seen the lack of an editor shows. So no It's not all in the past and the answer to my question is apparently not.


----------



## burns

Really? You think it's prevented us from doing other committee business? What, precisely? We have worked hard to produce the magazine, arrange the EvenTT and market it, all whilst keeping the club ticking over as usual.

Your continued references to the TTOC/TTF split are history. You are the only one continually bringing this issue up. The rest of us understand that it is not even something under consideration.


----------



## John-H

I refer you to my previous post.

Steve, the events secretary, had to step in to inform members about voting - that's the club secretary's (your) job isn't it? Only one magazine produced containing errors instead of two to the previous editorial (nothing to do with design) standard - that's the editor's job isn't it? You stepping in to arrange traders for the EvenTT, that's the marketing secretary's job isn't it? Ok I did that last year with Dani to help out but you cited that as a reason for getting rid of me. Ok if you are part of the clique I suppose for you to do it? I don't decry your efforts but it seems unfair to criticise others in the way you have.

These are all complaints from committee members, me, Steve, Dani, Mark. The committee is clearly dysfunctional.

If you are simply saying that you four are capable of running the entire club alone as an executive and there is no need for a committee to spread out the work then we'll let members decide whether that's what they want.


----------



## robokn

F' me I have never heard such moaning and whinging in my life is there any wonder why established members of the forum cannot be bothered with the TTOC, so much infighting and slagging each other off, if your on the committee then your there because people voted for you so if your not on the committee for any reason support the current incumbents and let them get on with the rather unenviable task of running the TTOC.

Personally if I was Nick or other long standing members I would have F ed off a long time ago lifes too short for people to constantly bring you down

Sermon over, soap box deflated, lock the thread as it is doing no-one any favours


----------



## Templar

Can't you all just get along nicely, this bickering has been going on too long and doesn't paint a good picture for potential new members and is putting off previous members from rejoining.

Why has this thread gone so off topic from what was originally posted ? Its just not constructive. Just bury the past woes and move on and give a positive outlook to all the members of both the TTOC and TTF, so let's just move on hey guys.


----------



## Gazzer

Templar said:


> Can't you all just get along nicely, this bickering has been going on too long and doesn't paint a good picture for potential new members and is putting off previous members from rejoining.
> 
> Why has this thread gone so off topic from what was originally posted ? Its just not constructive. Just bury the past woes and move on and give a positive outlook to all the members of both the TTOC and TTF, so let's just move on hey guys.


Ahhh now then that is due to outstanding issues that have not been sorted out and still underlying problems that come to light occasionally with a touch of non transparency thrown into the melting pot for added flavour.
I say let it all go and rise of the TTFC Tt forum club with events and many more members too, now I will be a sponsor on that venture


----------



## jamman

With your backing Gaz I'm sure it will go far.


----------



## Gazzer

:-*


jamman said:


> With your backing Gaz I'm sure it will go far.


----------



## Templar

No disrespect and I'm sure that there is a lot that I do not know about but is this the right place to do it ?


----------



## Gazzer

Templar said:


> No disrespect and I'm sure that there is a lot that I do not know about but is this the right place to do it ?


It is on the ttf site so basically yes as it is ttf property and the owners have a bigger reach than TTOC


----------



## Templar

Gazzer said:


> Templar said:
> 
> 
> 
> No disrespect and I'm sure that there is a lot that I do not know about but is this the right place to do it ?
> 
> 
> 
> It is on the ttf site so basically yes as it is ttf property and the owners have a bigger reach than TTOC
Click to expand...

I'd be interested on where and what this stems from if I'm honest, it seems that this goes way back.


----------



## burns

John-H said:


> I refer you to my previous post.
> 
> Steve, the events secretary, had to step in to inform members about voting - that's the club secretary's (your) job isn't it? Only one magazine produced containing errors instead of two to the previous editorial (nothing to do with design) standard - that's the editor's job isn't it? You stepping in to arrange traders for the EvenTT, that's the marketing secretary's job isn't it? Ok I did that last year with Dani to help out but you cited that as a reason for getting rid of me. Ok if you are part of the clique I suppose for you to do it? I don't decry your efforts but it seems unfair to criticise others in the way you have.
> 
> These are all complaints from committee members, me, Steve, Dani, Mark. The committee is clearly dysfunctional.
> 
> If you are simply saying that you four are capable of running the entire club alone as an executive and there is no need for a committee to spread out the work then we'll let members decide whether that's what they want.


Steve chose to prepare that before we had even discussed the voting announcement, maybe to score points in the election? Mind you, having had to make a call to Gaydon when Steve was missing in action and we didn't know if the EvenTT had even been booked, maybe the fact that he has prepared this announcement in my place is a good trade-off.

The committee is so 'dysfunctional' that it has managed to do all the things YOUR Gang of Four is now complaining about. It's not dysfunctional to keep the club running. That we have produced a magazine, organised the EvenTT and designed a whole new voting process is evidence that the current committee is not dysfunctional at all.


----------



## TT Law

burns said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> 
> I refer you to my previous post.
> 
> Steve, the events secretary, had to step in to inform members about voting - that's the club secretary's (your) job isn't it? Only one magazine produced containing errors instead of two to the previous editorial (nothing to do with design) standard - that's the editor's job isn't it? You stepping in to arrange traders for the EvenTT, that's the marketing secretary's job isn't it? Ok I did that last year with Dani to help out but you cited that as a reason for getting rid of me. Ok if you are part of the clique I suppose for you to do it? I don't decry your efforts but it seems unfair to criticise others in the way you have.
> 
> These are all complaints from committee members, me, Steve, Dani, Mark. The committee is clearly dysfunctional.
> 
> If you are simply saying that you four are capable of running the entire club alone as an executive and there is no need for a committee to spread out the work then we'll let members decide whether that's what they want.
> 
> 
> 
> Steve chose to prepare that before we had even discussed the voting announcement, maybe to score points in the election? Mind you, having had to make a call to Gaydon when Steve was missing in action and we didn't know if the EvenTT had even been booked, maybe the fact that he has prepared this announcement in my place is a good trade-off.
> 
> The committee is so 'dysfunctional' that it has managed to do all the things YOUR Gang of Four is now complaining about. It's not dysfunctional to keep the club running. That we have produced a magazine, organised the EvenTT and designed a whole new voting process is evidence that the current committee is not dysfunctional at all.
Click to expand...

Sara,

I am not going to get into another slanging match but will make factual observations.

I booked the event, I booked and arranged the hotel, I arranged the room for the AGM, I Sorted the buffet options. The committee forum had the evidence that all was in hand with the HMC. To insinuate that you didn't know if it had been booked is disingenuous. The contract details were posted on the committee forum months ago.

I made an announcement on voting simply because nothing had been sent to members or posted. How long were we going to leave it? I think a week out was late enough and no discussion on the committee forum as to when to announce. In fact no discussion in the committee forum on a great many issues.

I don't know how many times I need to state that I am not part of any gang but am simply standing for Club Secretary as I think I can improve on how the club operates in the role.

Nothing more, no hidden agenda.

Regards

Steve


----------



## jamman

How do you lot expect to work together it's a fecking joke.

You are all as guilty as each other in my eyes please pack it in.

Everyone has an agenda, I don't think for one second Peter and Steve would have been fighting for the same post if Peter
hadnt dropped out.

There is no working together with you lot we the members have either gang A or gang B to vote for because you are not going to work together that is obvious no matter what is said.

Lets be honest and up front and less of the smoke and mirrors.

I would "guess" LOL you Steve are in daily contact with one part of the candidates and hardly speak to the other and the same is true of let's say Sarah so no more of the BS rubbish and public slanging.


----------



## Audiphil

Jamman, good call, I have raised the same observations to John as when I look at the nominees I am concerned that that the events of earlier in the year are not resolved, and certain committee nominees would not work well together. (This is not an attack at John)

Whoever is elected in posts, clearly there is a need to clarify roles and responsibilities and have a code of conduct that stops trading insults and promotes working together better.

There is some great work being done by many people, however, when individuals of Marks calibre are not standing for re-election there are lessons to learn from this as, without which, relationships and tithe club will suffer.


----------



## burns

Steve, my reason for contacting Gaydon (having been requested to do so during a Skype call) is documented in the minutes. I then followed the phone call up with an email containing the wording for our announcement on their site and a photograph to be displayed. As you will recall, I posted this information on the committee forum by way if an update.

That's all part of trying to help others, and was only mentioned as John decided to have a snipe at me because you'd posted about the voting. The fact is, lines about roles are blurred but it's all part of acting as a team.


----------



## Gone

Well I was going to leave some feedback about the magazine, but, just, YAWN.

Burns and John having another domestic and Gazzer/Jamman stirring the pot, what's changed in 6 months?

Just stop it, all of you.


----------



## robokn

So off track it's amazing, yet it doesn't get locked spooky, one little bit on any other part and locked straight away


----------



## Gazzer

Gone Ape said:


> Well I was going to leave some feedback about the magazine, but, just, YAWN.
> 
> Burns and John having another domestic and Gazzer/Jamman stirring the pot, what's changed in 6 months?
> 
> Just stop it, all of you.


Jamman made me do it honest :roll:


----------



## jamman

Gazzer said:


> Gone Ape said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I was going to leave some feedback about the magazine, but, just, YAWN.
> 
> Burns and John having another domestic and Gazzer/Jamman stirring the pot, what's changed in 6 months?
> 
> Just stop it, all of you.
> 
> 
> 
> Jamman made me do it honest :roll:
Click to expand...

Yep guilty as charged....

Apologies if I have bored or upset people but at the end of the day if I was reading a thread that bored me I would stop.


----------



## Gazzer

As I said its on ttf so expect a comeback gone ape or tell ya pals to post only on ttoc site. The reason it is on here is to bring it to public attention I feel for members to get what is going on.


----------



## Templar

To be honest I don't really know what is going on ?


----------



## Bartsimpsonhead

I thought the reason things were posted on here were that only a hand-full of people (well, TTOC members) ever posted on the TTOC Forum so anything written there about AGM questions/comments, general opinions, jokes, the price of fish... whatever, is only ever read by a few people while most people (TTOC members and the world at large) all use the TTF. So as it's the more popular site you're likely to get a good, quick answer.

And considering the TTOC forum is limited to the number of members in the club (currently about 883 paid up members (I'm reliably told) - 473 are registered to use the TTOC Forum at the moment) you'd be talking to a very small audience. 
(TTOC forum stats state "Most users ever online was *28* on Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:51 pm" - must have been something exciting happening that day!)

Edit: thinking about those numbers again - if there are only 883 people currently in the club, and only 473* registered on the Forum (and so are entitled to vote in the e-vote), little over half the membership are likely to vote in the election† (even with a 100% 'turnout'.) Looks like it might be a low turnout to vote this year...

_*hopefully this number doesn't include historical members who may no longer be current members, and so are ineligible to vote.
† Not counting any postal votes, and the 30-odd people who regularly attend the AGM on the night._

And just for balance's sake - just now on the TTF: "In total there are 482 users online :: 104 registered, 59 hidden and 319 guests (based on users active over the past 60 minutes)
Most users ever online was 1286 on 05 Dec 2010, 23:02"


----------



## tim_s

Gone Ape said:


> Well I was going to leave some feedback about the magazine, but, just, YAWN.
> 
> Burns and John having another domestic and Gazzer/Jamman stirring the pot, what's changed in 6 months?
> 
> Just stop it, all of you.


I completely agree. I did leave some feedback and now I'm wondering why I bothered.


----------



## Gazzer

tim_s said:


> Hi All,
> 
> First, I'd like to qualify my feedback.
> 
> I would never class myself as a designer and, although I'm fairly useful with Photoshop (from my days as a freelance Product/Wedding/Corporate Event/Landscape photographer) and InDesign (see below), I couldn't create a magazine on my own without the help of a designer who can bring a visual concept together into something attractive and inviting.
> 
> That said, I do have a decade of experience working as a journalist, of which four years were spent working in print as an Editor at one of the UK's leading publishers across a couple of market-leading technology magazines - a certain enthusiast's car magazine is also published by them for the Internet Detectives who would like to work out which publisher I am talking about.
> 
> Second, I haven't read the whole magazine yet and have only managed to flick through it, so my feedback is not going to be about the editorial (that said, I really enjoyed the content in ABSOLUTTE 33, and look forward to reading this issue!) it's more about general first impressions as a reader and the use of page furniture.
> 
> Please also note that I'm fairly 'new' here so I do not take sides in the recent shenanigans in the Committee - to be honest, I started reading the related threads and got bored. I just want to be part of a well-run club with a great magazine. I have a lot of passion for my car - something I'm sure I share with every other member here - and that's what ultimately brings us together.
> 
> *First Impressions*
> My first impressions of the magazine are that it feels more like a brochure than a magazine.
> 
> The quality of paper used for the cover is not high enough and the inside pages might be of too higher-quality. Don't get me wrong here, higher quality paper is good, but the need to balance the cost of paper is one that needs to be considered. The quality of paper used for the inside pages is fine, but using a higher quality paper for the cover may mean there's a need to offer slightly lower quality paper inside in order to keep costs the same. It's a balancing act.
> 
> There needs to be a clear difference between 'cover' and 'content page', in my opinion, in order to drop the brochure feeling and make it feel more like a magazine. The reason for this is that you then get a feeling that the content is 'bound' inside a high-quality cover. It also 'feels' like a magazine, rather than like a brochure or pamphlet. The binding technique also implies this too - most magazines are bound by string, whereas staples have been used here. Again, it's a cost thing and it may be that because the magazine's content is limited (this isn't a criticism), string-binding might be too expensive or unrealistic - I'm just throwing my thoughts on the table in this regard.
> 
> *Cover*
> The front cover image either has some artifacting that's either a result of over-sharpening or isn't of high enough resolution. I'm leaning towards the latter as the moment you turn the cover, the images on the inside cover and contents page seem of higher quality.
> 
> That said, the cover design mostly works if the magazine was on a news stand. However, given that we're all subscribers, I'm not sure how much of the information on the front page is redundant? Cover lines are mainly used to sell the magazine to casual buyers who're looking for something to interesting to read in WH Smiths, Tescos or A.N. Other place where there's a news stand.
> 
> *Contents*
> No issues - everything is clearly laid out. Background image looks to be of sufficient resolution.
> 
> *pp4-5*
> I'm not sure if there's a need for the whole first paragraph to be emboldened to invite me into reading the first article. A good technique to use is an over-sized first letter that aims to invite you into reading the article - it adds an element of style and, as a reader, helps break up the wall of text.
> 
> Pull quotes also work quite well - there's a lot of text in the article on page 5, so a pull quote might help break it up. Images also help in this regard. As do headings.
> 
> *pp6-7*
> The top left corner of this spread is a little bit too dark. It's difficult to read the first column of text because the background is too dark in this part of the page. The text on page 7 is fine though.
> 
> Otherwise, the page design is attractive.
> 
> *pp8-9*
> The change in text colour, but similar background image (in terms of colour/brightness) is almost an admission of the problems with text readability on the previous page.
> 
> *pp10-111*
> A clear layout direction that works _fairly_ well, but it is not perfect. My personal preference would be for black text on a white background unless there's a background image. Large blocks of black aren't that attractive - it might've worked better if the page was black with white boxes and small, ~2mm black borders around the images to help preventing them from blending into the text.
> 
> *pp12-13*
> It seems strange that _ABSOLUTTE_ is missing from the bottom of page 13. Otherwise, the page works well - apart from a few more headlines and/or pull quotes to break the spread up a bit.
> 
> *pp14-15*
> The white text on black background works much better here. Nice page design.
> 
> *pp16-17*
> A couple of headers would help here, but otherwise looks good.
> 
> *pp18-19*
> Not sure why the _ABSOLUTTE_ logo moved to the left-hand page? There's also no page number on p19, which seems a bit strange given that both bottom corners of the spread seem to be of similar luminosity.
> 
> *pp20-21*
> p20 - preference would be for a more inviting background colour than black - red might match the pull quote on p21?
> p21 - just needs something to break the text up a bit more. Headings, etc. If I recall (it's three years since I worked in the publishing industry), we used to work to a rule of three or four paragraphs - at maximum - before it was time for another heading. It just helps break the page up a bit.
> 
> *pp22-23*
> I like this spread, apart from the previous comments about breaking the text up into bite-sized chunks.
> 
> *pp24-25*
> Same issues as pp18-19.
> 
> *pp26-27*
> A good spread.
> 
> *pp28-29*
> The spread works, but is missing an _ABSOLUTTE_ logo and I'm not too sure about the repetition of the wireframe drawings at the top/bottom. The bottom wireframes seem to sacrifice some consistency (i.e. the logo).
> There also need to be a heading or two to break up the blocks of text.
> 
> *pp30-31*
> The image works really well, but it maybe needs a paragraph of text to introduce the article. Again, there's the page number/logo inconsistencies.
> 
> *pp32-33*
> Refer to my comments about background consistency on pp20-21... might work better with the pull quote in the same colour as the background on the preceding page.
> 
> *pp34-35*
> This spread works well.
> 
> *pp36-37*
> Ditto
> 
> *pp38-39*
> Ditto
> 
> *pp40-41*
> Needs an introductory paragraph to connect it to the following pages, but otherwise the spread is fine.
> 
> *pp42-43*
> Either a pull quote or a couple of headings would help break up the text.
> 
> *pp44-45*
> They're ads, no need to comment.
> 
> *pp46-47*
> The spread works well.
> 
> *Additional observation*
> Some graphic(s) that acts as a way of indicating that an article continues over multiple pages (at its most basic... ->) or has finished (..._TT_) would help with navigation through the articles.
> 
> As I say above, I hope this is seen as useful/constructive criticism - I've got a fair amount of experience in publishing and, if I had time outside of work, I'd love to offer a helping hand with the magazine. Unfortunately I just cannot guarantee my reliability because I quite often have to travel across the world at very short notice (the shortest notice being 'you need to fly to Taiwan this afternoon').
> 
> On the whole, I think it's a good first stab at creating a new look for the magazine. I have been through a few magazine design overhauls and they are not simple - there's a lot more to think about than is immediately obvious to the reader. It's that attention to detail that sets a good design apart from a great design, though!
> 
> I understand it's a work in progress - I look forward to reading this issue and seeing how things develop going forwards. I hope to be at EvenTT later this month, so look forward to putting some faces to usernames.
> 
> Thanks and sorry for the long post.
> 
> Tim


Tim you got no response from the committee as they are all defending their own corners so oblivious to all else I think.


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## John-H

I've been holding off saying anything about the magazine until I got hold of a copy to review. I'm the editor of the previous 20 magazines and I'll make some general comments in a moment but first to say that with my understanding of design from my perspective of having worked closely with our previous experienced magazine designer Richard over the same period I have to say that I agree with ALL of the comments by tim_s that Gazzer quoted above.

Overall I'm quite impressed by the effort that's been put into presentation and some spreads work very well.

I agree that something needs doing with the text composition in general like pull quotes and drop capitals at the start to pull you in rather than just a paragraph of bold text and article end indicators are needed too. I'd also add that the paragraph endings are at varying heights and not justified which looks untidy and indenting rather than line spacing paragraphs would improve things I think.

The overall design look is very flat with a lack of 3D effects such as drop shadows etc. but there are some spreads that work well. I like the P30-31 spread and minimalist look and soft edge focusing to draw the eye - it's a good big picture but yes it could do with an introductory paragraph.

Another that works well is P34-35 and the thing that makes it work is the sulky picture of Pam looking over the door. That's an excellent picture apart from the pixilation. What makes it though is the human touch which always connects you to the page and I like the colour theme. Generally there are too many pictures of cars in the magazine and the lack of people disconnects the reader. Also places - countryside, driving roads, buildings and other interest ... did I say people?

The cover doesn't work for me. The print process and finish has already been mentioned but the picture is poor and colours drab and lacks contrast. Compare it with the sharp bold Shark Performance advert on the back cover. I think the cover should be improved.

There are some good big pictures allowing big full A3 two page spreads which makes the magazine look impressive. You do need a big high resolution picture to do this and usually I don't usually get that many that can be used this way. It looks like a crop of them came forward for this issue. There are some picture effects I'm not too keen on but perhaps they are used to hide defects in resolution etc - in fairness you can only work with what you are given.

Editing...

Now, I can't spare enough time to go through this in too much detail as it usually takes hours or days to do the whole thing justice but I'd agree with Penny's comments about grammar, readability and spelling and I also noticed incorrect forum username capitalisation which loses a reader's confidence as do incorrect punctuation, spelling plural TT's as possessive and using "2" instead of "two" in a sentence and other such things. Use of two versions of the same name e.g. "German Classic car show" and "German Classics car show" immediately adjacent etc. Foul language should never be used even if deliberately misspelt with an @ in the middle - the reader can still read it and it can still offend and it cheapens a readers impression of standards. Having said that, proper attention to detail and editorial process can improve these things.

General content is good although technical articles are missed as are the Dr AbsoluTTe Q+A and Oilman which was a feature agreement with Opie Oils to go next to their advert.

I have to say that the News articles are not good. The "Tuning North of the Border" item looks like an advert feature for Brotek and Shark performance and I'd hazard a guess it was written by the advertiser with no editing. Giving editorial control to an advertiser is something an editor of a trusted independent magazine should never allow and certainly it should not be presented as "News" when clearly it is not. It should be introduced properly so there is no attempt to fool the reader into thinking this is independent reporting by rewriting and use of such phrases like "Mark Brodie of Brotek says,..." and a quote so we know who is speaking and the context. Questionable hyperbole such as "Shark Performance offer some of the most highly regarded tuning maps..." should be changed to "Shark Performance tuning maps are offered..." because otherwise the reader sees it as a sales pitch and immediately mistrusts the rest of the article.

The "TT ULTRA QUATTRO CONCEPT" article looks like an Audi press release. Such things are always improved by a re-write to lose the corporate spiel and again make it an independent report in the magazine's style.

You have to be very careful of editorial control of advertiser related articles. The false "News" item immediately creates the wrong impression and casts doubt on other articles later in the magazine. Immediately a reader will think that other supplier connected articles are just another advert and trust in the magazine and those presenting will be lost.

In Summary ...

The current committee have written nearly all of the articles for the spring issue themselves and I'm bowled over by the huge effort and time they must have put into this. Generally a very good effort and quite a new look design with some impressive photo spreads. Some work needs doing on text composition and the lack of an editor shows. All things that can be fixed however. Well done.


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## Gazzer

But John you are the other side! The one who seeks to bring the four down......and you have praised them for the lastest mag.
Could it be that maybe you have been cast in a role of the wicked witch and you are only a concerned and motivated kind of guy.


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## John-H

Just being fair Gaz


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## Gazzer

John-H said:


> Just being fair Gaz


I saw that myself, but notice that no one else posted to same as myself


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## Audiphil

I too thought that was very balanced feedback and I am sure John is well placed to know how much work is involved.


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## les

Never anything wrong with constructive critisism esp when the criticizer is an experienced and one time editor of the magazine. There had been criticism of the previous magazine when John was editor esp when I wrote quite a number of articles for them esp and from me as I thought most of mine were quite poor and not worthy of publication :lol:


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## John-H

It's not a huge budget publication with internationally commissioned contributions from professionals. It's a club magazine with amateur voluntary contribution but where it loses out on big budget production, it makes up with enthusiasm dedication, passion and care. Les, your articles connected with people because they could relate to the experience of grappling with that gear knob or attending that show and to them you were a celebrity, so stick a feather in yer cap and stand proud within the glossy covers


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## Desmodave996

Our copy landed on the matt this morning, was pleasntly surprised to see both our new tt's in it, admitedly they were in an advert for norfolk performace cars, but still , nice start to tt ownership!


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