# After market Sat Nav/Sound System



## TT Hopeful (Oct 7, 2006)

Ok, I think i'm going to take the plunge and order a 3.2 S-tronic. 

However, i'm not keen on the sat nav system or sound system that comes with the car. Ideally I'd like to install an aftermarket system and my number one choice is (yes you guessed it) the Pioneer hard drive unit.

I do have a few questions though and i'd greatly appreciate any help.

1. Is the system actually double din (even with the standard stereo)?
2. Where can I get a fascia adapter for the new TT?
3. Can an aftermarket cd changer be installed in the glovebox exactly like the audi setup?
4. Can I upgrade the original speakers easily enough?
5. Oh and, will the new pioneer system actually fit?

Thanks guys!

P.S. will i lose steering wheel functionality or is there an adapter available?


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## Iceman (Jul 3, 2004)

TT Hopeful said:


> I do have a few questions though and i'd greatly appreciate any help.
> 
> 1. Is the system actually double din (even with the standard stereo)?
> 2. Where can I get a fascia adapter for the new TT?
> ...


1. Yes.
2. Pioneer. (in development)
3. Depend on size. (Or Ipod.)
4. Yes. (advise: Boston accoustics Pro serie)
5. look at 2.

Hans.

P.S. mfsw will work with it they told me.


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

Now all we need is a decent Group Buy discount for that Pioneer unit ...


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## ggruosso (Aug 7, 2006)

Thinking of not ordering the Audi unit and buying an aftermarket unit

Has anyone seen the Pioneer AVIC-HD1BT unit. Will this work with the MFSW? Am assuming the aftermarket units will not work with the DIS between the dials?

Any info or help would be appreciated?


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## Iceman (Jul 3, 2004)

ggruosso said:


> Has anyone seen the Pioneer AVIC-HD1BT unit.












Hans.


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## ggruosso (Aug 7, 2006)

Thanks for pic but have seen on the web. Trying to find out if anyone been to a audio dealer and looked at unit or discussed if fit in new TT, etc, etc..


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## Iceman (Jul 3, 2004)

This is how it can look like mounted in the new TT.










Hans.


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## ggruosso (Aug 7, 2006)

Looks really good!! Do you think it woudl be better getting after market unit or stick with the dealer install?


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## Iceman (Jul 3, 2004)

ggruosso said:


> Looks really good!! Do you think it woudl be better getting after market unit or stick with the dealer install?


I would go for aftermarket.
The Pioneer with Phoenix Gold and Boston acoustics pro serie.

Hans.


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## mrmyagi (Aug 1, 2006)

Although I ordered my sat nav and blue tooth etc from audi, I thought the bright red display looked a little cheap.

I was seriously considering getting thePioneer system, but I was concerned about the security of such a flash unit tempting my local neighbourhood car theif.


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## ggruosso (Aug 7, 2006)

The reason I'm asking is that I have also order the CD satnav from Audi and am starting to think it looks a little cheap so was considering upgrading to the SatNav plus but before doing so, thought might be worth looking at alternatives especailly as price is Â£1600ish


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## Iceman (Jul 3, 2004)

Pioneer will also make the adapter for the TT.
Here a example (not TT).









Hans.


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## Iceman (Jul 3, 2004)

*Demo Pioneer AVIC-HD1BT.* 7 min 40 secs.

Hans.


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## funky_chilli (Sep 14, 2006)

hans,
u got any other pics of what the pioneer system will look like? esp when it is playing mustic or connected to an ipod or something? i think that will be the most common screen that ppl would look at.....

i have had experience with pioneer hu
i think it was great, but unfortunately it got stolen 
i have found that alpine systems are easier to use and i actually like it better
anyone know if alpine make something like this?


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## Johnnywb (May 31, 2006)

What will happen about the other functions you can access from the Audi MMI system??

Also, what's the verdict on compatibility with the DIS?


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## der_horst (Apr 29, 2006)

i wonder if some company will offer a mounting rack with a shutter or something like that. i dont like the idea that anyone passing by can see that thing.


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## TT Hopeful (Oct 7, 2006)

funky_chilli said:


> anyone know if alpine make something like this?


Yes they do but its not as good as the pioneer system.

You can view it here :wink:


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## TT Hopeful (Oct 7, 2006)

P.S.

Thanks Hans for the replies to my questions. You seem to know your stuff when it comes to this subject, I guess that's why they call you the Iceman! :wink:


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## stephenbelcher (Jan 24, 2006)

Does anyone know when Pioneer will release the facia kit for the TT?

Cheers

Stephen


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## TT Hopeful (Oct 7, 2006)

stephenbelcher said:


> Does anyone know when Pioneer will release the facia kit for the TT?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Stephen


Probably well before I actually get my TT delivered!


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## TT Hopeful (Oct 7, 2006)

Pioneer are pretty good.

Best thing to do is email (or phone) them tomorrow and find out when they are going to release it. :wink:


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## funky_chilli (Sep 14, 2006)

TT Hopeful said:


> funky_chilli said:
> 
> 
> > anyone know if alpine make something like this?
> ...


thanks for the link...what makes it not as good as the pioneer system?



TT Hopeful said:


> Pioneer are pretty good.


yes i know, i've used both brands, both of them being top model systems of the current range (but with the fold out screen things) and i find the alpine user interface easier to use, and erm it had better pictures - the pioneer still had the old swimming dolphins and rubbish like that when the music was playing haha


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## Iceman (Jul 3, 2004)

stephenbelcher said:


> Does anyone know when Pioneer will release the facia kit for the TT? Cheers Stephen


It was not yet on the september list.

Hans.


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## ggruosso (Aug 7, 2006)

Spoke to my Audio dealer and he said the fascia is not available yet. he also stated that the Pioneer should work with the dash DIS system. But will investigate further.


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## vul3ck6 (Sep 26, 2006)

.........to be honest.....it looks even better than the SatNav Plus from Audi.....don't know how much is it.........online search starting...


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## TT Hopeful (Oct 7, 2006)

funky_chilli said:


> thanks for the link...what makes it not as good as the pioneer system?


Its not a full system!

This is really just a screen with CD/DVD/iPod playback.
For Navigation you need to buy a seperate navigation unit such as this which just gives you another unit you need to install.

The Pioneer has bluetooth for phone integration (the Alpine does not).
The Pioneer has a hard drive for storing songs (again the Alpine does not), which can eliminate the need for iPod integration or a CD changer.

I'm not saying the Alpine monitor isn't good, in fact it's very good but it just doesn't have the same features as the Pioneer. You really can't compare the two as they are really in different leagues.


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## TT Hopeful (Oct 7, 2006)

vul3ck6 said:


> .........to be honest.....it looks even better than the SatNav Plus from Audi.....don't know how much is it.........online search starting...


For the Alpine system you're looking at about Â£600 for the monitor.

For the Pioneer you're looking at about Â£1800.

I contemplated getting the Pioneer but instead chickened out and went for the Audi sat nav plus. I was demonstrated it in an a4 and really liked the system. Plus it gets rid of all the compatibility issues and just makes the whole thing easier.

However, what I would say is that the Pioneer system will actually work out cheaper because it includes bluetooth and a hard drive eliminating the need for the Audi cd changer, iPod connection and phone system.
Adding all these extras together totals just over Â£2,500!


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## Johnnywb (May 31, 2006)

I spoke to Pioneer today who think it unlikley that anyone will be able to get an adater to work tihe the Audi DIS system as the unit simply doesn't output that kind of data.


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## stephenbelcher (Jan 24, 2006)

Did they say when the facia would be released?

Cheers

Stephen


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## stephenbelcher (Jan 24, 2006)

Had this email response back from Pioneer today:

Hi,

Thanks for your email.

Currently I am not showing that one is available for the TT, however I am sure that one of our specialist dealers will be able to fabricate one for you if the universal one does not fit.


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## Johnnywb (May 31, 2006)

TT Hopeful, when yuo were showed the at nav plus system, was it a 3d map of 2d?


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## TT Hopeful (Oct 7, 2006)

Initially I was shown the 2d system on the TT. I wasn't overly impressed with the system and was keen on getting an aftermarket system.

However, when I found out (from this forum) that the satnav plus system will be available for my car, I asked to look at this system.

They showed me the system in an a4 and i was more impressed. I decided then to go for this system purely out of ease, convenience and compatibilty.


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

Cheapest I've found so far:

http://www.incarexpress.co.uk/view_product.php?partno=AVICHD1BT


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## markrbooth (Sep 25, 2006)

Karcsi said:


> Cheapest I've found so far:
> 
> http://www.incarexpress.co.uk/view_product.php?partno=AVICHD1BT


Not seen cheaper than that. Â£1800 seems to be the limit.

I assume that head unit can pre-amp out to the Bose amp and has a DVD/HD navigation built into the head unit and no seperate DVD drive required?


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## stephenbelcher (Jan 24, 2006)

So who's going to be first to put a photo of it fitted in there shiny new mk2 then?


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

stephenbelcher said:


> So who's going to be first to put a photo of it fitted in there shiny new mk2 then?


I think I can just afford putting a photo of it in my TT. Not sure whether it will be much use as a navigation tool though.


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

markrbooth said:


> Karcsi said:
> 
> 
> > Cheapest I've found so far:
> ...


It says it has an RCA pre-out. Or is that the video signal?

The maps are on the HD I think, with a separate 10gig partition for your MP3s. The DVD slot is then free for your DVD videos, I would hope.


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## TT Hopeful (Oct 7, 2006)

Karcsi said:


> The maps are on the HD I think, with a separate 10gig partition for your MP3s. The DVD slot is then free for your DVD videos, I would hope.


That is exactly correct. The Pioneer unit comes pre installed with the maps on its hard drive. The DVD/CD drive is then free for you to insert your CD's. 

P.S. I don't think the hard drive is removable. To burn your music on to the hard drive, you must insert your CD and it records from the CD on to the HD.


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## der_horst (Apr 29, 2006)

i took a look at the recent nav systems last week that i'd consider for the mk2. so without considering the price as an argument there are imo 3 interesting units:

Clarion VN868HD
Eclipse AVN 8826
Pioneer AVIC-HD (exact name is different for different countries, the one with the HD)

after watching all kinds of videos and reading specs i came to the conclusion that, as they all cost roughly the same, the clarion would be my weapon of choice. it has a 7" touch screen, is only one din unit in size and doesn't look like a valuable nav in deactivated state, plus the navi stuff is in a separate unit, which even carries a directx graphic chip used for acceleration of the 3d mode. other navigation systems update the image maybe twice a second or less, this one offers really fluent motion and even stuff like 3d menus for all the functions. if you are geek enough you'll love it as much as i do 

i also like the idea that you can put the navigation unit in the trunk or under your seat, so whoever tries to steal it will have to invest some time to get it out or he'll end up with the head unit only which even offers detachable controls.

navigation data is from navteq, so you can easily add your own POIs, e.g. static speed traps, mcdonalds or whatever you like. plus updating the data is fairly easy as the same data base is used by several systems and manufacturers.

so for those who're thinking about the avic i'd recommend to consider the clarion as well, it's the same price and if you want to have a 2 din unit just take the MAX instead of the VRX head unit. they are the same (only diff is the form and the optional camera input for those who'd like to install a rear bumper cam instead of a pdc).

http://www.clarion-eu.com/uk/Navigation ... 1c8.4.html
http://www.clarion-eu.com/uk/Accessory. ... 531.0.html

imo the perfect electronic toy for the mk2 with a price not that far from the audi color satnav.


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## funky_chilli (Sep 14, 2006)

but the TT has a two-din slot
what will u do with the other din?


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## der_horst (Apr 29, 2006)

that's currently my problem. there are adapters that convert the lower one to a simple tray or close it completely, but atm i don't think they have the same look and feel as the rest of the audi interior. so i'm hoping for a high end plastic blend to appear before my car does 

but as mentioned, if you don't want to use one of the available cheap frames you can use the 2 din head unit for the same price.


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## koppernob (Nov 19, 2006)

> but the TT has a two-din slot
> what will u do with the other din?


Idiots guide to din slots required please, I have no idea what it means so am losing the thread. For info there is no lager involved in my reasoning................not yet anyway.


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## der_horst (Apr 29, 2006)

din slot = opening with standardized width and height that can take any din sized radio. double din = two din slots which allows mounting of devices twice as high, e.g. navi systems with larger displays.


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## koppernob (Nov 19, 2006)

Thanks, obvious now you explained it


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## TT Hopeful (Oct 7, 2006)

Interesting suggestion der horst! :wink:

Personally, I would rather go for a double din unit than a single din unit as it looks a lot neater IMO.

Have you used Clarion products before? I ask because I've had a lot of experience with them before, and whilst they do produce some interesting and nice looking products, they tend to have several problems, such as poor build quality. The last head unit I bought had several defects such as scratches on the fascia and a faulty opening mechanism. This doesn't seem to be a one off either as I've heard of several people who've had similar problems with their Clarion products! 

That's not to say that this system will be faulty but I would definitly be scepticle about buying from them again. That head unit was the third I've owned from Clarion that's had problems!

IMO there are three good options for the Mk2 (assuming you want a double din unit!).

One each from Alpine, Kenwood and Pioneer (IMO the only three manufacturers I would consider for car audio anyway!)

Alpine System
Kenwood System
Pioneer System

These are arguably the best double-din systems you could buy. The Pioneer looks like a very good option (especially now at that price) as it not only includes a hard drive with navigation installed on it (freeing up the dvd drive for playing music) but bluetooth phone connection too which does away with the need for the phone prep. Thus the system actually works out cheaper than the Audi system whilst being much better!!

Besides, if you're saying the clarion system costs roughly the same as the pioneer then you would be mad to go for it as an alternative! Firstly the Pioneer system has bluetooth functionality which is extremely useful and the system is all to hand in one inbuilt package. I can see a lot of issues arising from the Clarion system. Admittedly the 30GB hD is extremely good but the fact that the unit is stored either in the trunk or under the seat makes it very user unfriendly. For example, the system used by Alpine and Kenwood means that you don't need to gain access to the navigation unit as it just houses the maps (either on CD or HD) and doesn't have any other neccessary function. The Clarion unit however is different as you need to gain access to the unit to insert a memory card for example or other CDs you may wish to burn. Therefore installing it under a seat or in the trunk is not very practicle. Unlike the Pioneer system that has it all to hand for the driver or passenger! 

Thats not to say the Clarion system doesn't have its merits but unfortunately it falls into a void (practicality wise) encorporating the features of two different systems without really working. If they built the system into a double din package then they might have something worth getting (if its'c much cheaper than the Pioneer system)

Bottom line- You can't use a unit easily and practically if its stored under the seat or in the trunk. Personally I don't want to have to keep stopping the car if I want to burn a CD! I'd rather burn and play on the move!

My advice- stick with the big three, Alpine, Kenwood and Pioneer. :wink:


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## der_horst (Apr 29, 2006)

TT Hopeful said:


> Have you used Clarion products before?


nope. no idea how good they are. i'd thought that anything in that price region should be a safe buy regarding the quality, but i may be a bit foolish here.

i'll try to find the connect-mag where it won the comparison test in the 2500 euro class (not that it doesn't mean more than that the author was allowed to keep it for that, but they've got to say something about the quality as well i hope ).



TT Hopeful said:


> Besides, if you're saying the clarion system costs roughly the same as the pioneer then you would be mad to go for it as an alternative! Firstly the Pioneer system has bluetooth functionality


the clarion too. only thing i miss is a usb-port, but with ipod and rw input that's not so much of a problem.



TT Hopeful said:


> I can see a lot of issues arising from the Clarion system. Admittedly the 30GB hD is extremely good but the fact that the unit is stored either in the trunk or under the seat makes it very user unfriendly.
> 
> The Clarion unit however is different as you need to gain access to the unit to insert a memory card for example or other CDs you may wish to burn.


are we talking about the same system? the head unit got the dvd/cd-drive which can be accessed as any normal cd-radio, the nax only got the navigation system, the 3d accelerator and the hdd, which you probably don't want to remove/directly access anyway 



TT Hopeful said:


> Thats not to say the Clarion system doesn't have its merits but unfortunately it falls into a void (practicality wise) encorporating the features of two different systems without really working.


again, i think we might talk about different systems here.


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## TT Hopeful (Oct 7, 2006)

der_horst said:


> are we talking about the same system? the head unit got the dvd/cd-drive which can be accessed as any normal cd-radio, the nax only got the navigation system, the 3d accelerator and the hdd, which you probably don't want to remove/directly access anyway


No I was talking about the same system. :?

You'll have to forgive me though because I'm not entirely sure about it as all I have to go by is the Clarion website.

Right so the MAX is bluetooth compatible! Well that makes a bit of a difference then as it means you won't need to buy the phone prep from Audi. 

However, that still doesn't solve the problem of having the HD unit hidden away! Am I to understand that the HD navigation unit is purely only for containing the navigation maps? Ok this makes much more sense, and as such makes this definitly a viable option alongside the Alpine and Kenwood units which act in the same way! :wink:

Found the system here for a little under Â£1300, which puts it at the same price as the Alpine and Kenwood units!


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## der_horst (Apr 29, 2006)

TT Hopeful said:


> Am I to understand that the HD navigation unit is purely only for containing the navigation maps?


that's the way i understood it (too bad they don't offer the manual as pdf ). if you can put own data like mp3s on the hdd as well you'd have to feed them in through the cd/dvd drive in the head-unit or via bluetooth anyway, so usability should be ok even if the nax is out of reach.


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## TT Hopeful (Oct 7, 2006)

der_horst said:


> if you can put own data like mp3s on the hdd as well you'd have to feed them in through the cd/dvd drive in the head-unit or via bluetooth anyway, so usability should be ok even if the nax is out of reach.


Ah yes, that would be great! Even making it a better option than the Pioneer system (especially with such a large capacity!). However, I am almost 100% sure that is not the case! I searched very carefully to see whether you could burn CD's entered into the headunit onto the seperate HD but this is not the case. The navigation unit links to the headunit purely for navigation purposes only! 

It's a shame really because at that price, it would definitly have been stiff competition for the pioneer unit!!


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## der_horst (Apr 29, 2006)

TT Hopeful said:


> However, I am almost 100% sure that is not the case! I searched very carefully to see whether you could burn CD's entered into the headunit onto the seperate HD but this is not the case. The navigation unit links to the headunit purely for navigation purposes only!



now that you mentioned it i checked the other systems:

- the pioneer: has a rather weak gpu (as mentioned above), so the graphics didn't look very impressive but rather jerky. apart from that it looked really nice. and as it's the only device without separate navi box it can use the hdd for mp3s as well.

- the kenwood: i don't see any possibility to get more than the navigation data on that disk as well 
and the manual states that the more complex the map is the longer it takes to refresh the display, which doesn't sound very promising to me...

- the alpine: claims to have a 'high speed cpu' whatever that means, but i didn't find any video or hints how the actual navigation screen would look like in action. got a dvd drive instead of a hdd.

btw, the alpine was voted best navi solution in 2005 by connect (the same price the clarion got in 2006) so it seems to be a bit older.

so unless the manufacturers start to open their disks the additional ipod seems to be the only option if you want more than one disc of music. and that 7 years after the empeg was released. yes, it was ugly, but it had 80gb back then you could put on whatever you wanted


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## der_horst (Apr 29, 2006)

one addon to the clarion: while straying through their website labyrinth for a contact adress i only found out that there is no support in the classical sense. all support pages are in japanese. i kept browsing though, clicking through the few non-kanji links and landed here:

http://www.clarion.com/jp/ja/products/2 ... 45331.html
http://www.clarion.com/jp/ja/products/2 ... 45359.html










can't see shit, captain, but it seems that device combines the MAX and the NAX to one unit which is also capable of storing music on the hdd. not sure how much of the navigation/3d acceleration capabilities of the NAX survived this merge, but their evil masterplan reveals that they bring out a new set of devices every year:

http://www.clarion.com/jp/ja/support/do ... index.html

so it shouldn't take too long till we either see that mysterious merged HD unit outside of jp or another new set for 2007.

edit: btw, a 'translation' can be found here. i love the part where it says "Robbery is prevented with LED blinking" and the footnote saying "robbery prevention function" is not something which prevents 100% robbery". not that powerfull, that LED, huh?


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## TT Hopeful (Oct 7, 2006)

Wow!! Nice find der horst! :wink:

Now that unit looks pretty impressive!! 8) 
If that preforms better than the Pioneer unit, I may well consider it!

Is that a mini disc slot I can see there as well?! That makes me think that they probably won't release it in the UK or Europe as mini disc is pretty much an obsolete format over here. I know it is still pretty popular in Japan which is why they have it, but over here it never really took off!! 

I hope they do release it over here but I would think that unit is just for the Japanese market! Unless they release a version of it over here without the mini disc but I doubt they'll do that!


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## TT Hopeful (Oct 7, 2006)

der_horst said:


> now that you mentioned it i checked the other systems:
> 
> - the pioneer: has a rather weak gpu (as mentioned above), so the graphics didn't look very impressive but rather jerky. apart from that it looked really nice. and as it's the only device without separate navi box it can use the hdd for mp3s as well.
> 
> ...


Ah, you shouldn't really go by what you read! You should try the systems out for yourself in a shop to gain an idea about quality!

I've seen all the systems mentioned above working in a shop and believe me, they are all extremely good! The pioneer systems have some of the best graphics i've seen (hardly surprising when you consider their pedigree when it comes to manufacturing TVs). The kenwood system seems pretty good and they were one of the first to offer a double din multimedia solution but I wasn't keen on the looks of it!

The alpine however is in a league of its own. It was by far the quickest system for route acquisition. As soon as I typed a postcode in, it calculated the route almost instantly! A stark comparison to units such as Tom Tom and others, which can take a few minutes. The screen on the Alpine is also very high quality with a great tactile system where you can actually 'feel' your button presses with a pulse technology! This system has been around for a while now and is still one of the best. Perhaps that's why they haven't felt the need to change it yet! The fact that it uses DVD as opposed to HD doesn't make a difference as it is quicker than any other system i've seen! I would be surprised if they decide to change the DVD navigation unit for a HD unit but I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to make a built in double din navigation/monitor unit! 

As for the weak cpu in the Pioneer, I'm not sure where you got that from but every pioneer navigation unit I've seen has worked very well with no problems from the cpu. The only problems I've heard of with the Pioneer systems is to do with the maps. A lot of people complained about the accuracy of some of the earlier map versions! Also, I've heard of problems with the post code search on earlier models which I know they've now sorted out!


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## Iceman (Jul 3, 2004)

*Audi navigation Plus.*










Hans.


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## Reaperman (Nov 3, 2006)

der_horst said:


> din slot = opening with standardized width and height that can take any din sized radio. double din = two din slots which allows mounting of devices twice as high, e.g. navi systems with larger displays.


So ..is there an aftermarket DIN adapter now available for the MK2..?


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