# Job Seeking Advice



## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

As some of you know, I've recently left the Army after 23 years service, and, having taken 6 months off, I'm looking to get back to work. I've been doing some DJing and I also qualified as a landscaper, but I'm not sure it's something I want to do permenantly.
I moved home to the Lakes after leaving the military and I'm finding it's not the easiest place to find the right job. I have loads of transferable skills and my CV is littered with, "supervised" this, "managed" that and all the rest of the buzz words employers like to hear. To my detriment it's also full of where I've served and under what conditions, the type of military stuff that not many people understand, but I can't leave out 'cos I think it's relevant
The military saw fit to pay me almost 40k a year, but I'm struggling to get a look at jobs earning less than half that. It's possible I'm doing something wrong, but other than outright lying, I can't change my CV.
If there's anyone in recruitment or similar that can offer some advice, it'd be greatly appreciated. I have my pension and my gratuity money, so there's no rush, but I'd really like to get back to work.
Those of you that came to the barracks for the visit and dinner, know what I'm capable of, it's how best to advertise that's the problem. Soldiers, past and present, don't sell themselves very well :?


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2008)

LakesTTer said:


> Soldiers, past and present, don't sell themselves very well :?


Its not about selling yourself.

The problem with the MOD is no one prepares you for the truth when you finally come out.
I've a few friends who i was in with (17 years and 5 yrs as a civvy working in a career related environment) who really struggle to get to interview stage because of their involvement with the forces.

A lot of companies view ex forces personnel as a probable danger to other employees, what with the P.t.s.d. issues that plague some guys when they get back into civvy street.

Unfortunately, everyone gets tarnished with the same brush.

I was lucky because of relative skill sets i have and the job i went into was related to my background.

Best thing to do is make a phone call to anyone your trying to get in the door with, because 9 times out of 10, if they see ex army on that application form its put instantly to one side.


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## prt225TT (May 7, 2007)

I'm in a very similar position to yourself. I am 24 and have recently left the Marines. I was doing really well, picked up for early promotion etc etc but thought maybe it was time I left to work in civvie street. I had somewhat of a plan, and applied for a Gov position, and after 3mths into the application, I was unsuccessful. I cannot apply for the same position for 12mths, should I apply again.

I am working a boring office job to keep money coming in, but its brain dumbingly boring, and sh*t pay. I have been looking on job sites etc, and without relevant experience or a degree... its slim pickings.

I have been considering returning to the Marines, as I do miss it, but this would feel more like failure, as I left as I wanted something more challenging.

I have recieved support from the HM Forces in career transition, but arent really sure what it is I want to do now my initial idea fell on its arse... :?


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

The resettlement people make out that employers are clamouring for ex-service people, simply isn't true. I was Harry's old unit, Household Cavalry, primarily recce but the higher up the food chain you go, then admin and management comes into play. 
It's all hospitality and tourism up here, it's the reason I left in the first place, but it's my home so here I'll stay until it gets desperate. I like to think I'm free of PTSD, I get emotional sometimes, but it doesn't last long, surely that's some form of discrimination??


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## prt225TT (May 7, 2007)

Like I say I'm doing some rather rubbish temp office work, and went for an interview to work in a council office, but they said they couldnt hire me because they work with asylum seekers from countries I have gone to war in... :lol: erm... thats descrimination! :wink: :roll:

It was only a temp job and didnt really want it, but until I know what I'm going to do, I need to work...

On the upside, I sit on TT Forum all day at work :roll:


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2008)

LakesTTer said:


> The resettlement people make out that employers are clamouring for ex-service people, simply isn't true. I was Harry's old unit, Household Cavalry, primarily recce but the higher up the food chain you go, then admin and management comes into play.
> It's all hospitality and tourism up here, it's the reason I left in the first place, but it's my home so here I'll stay until it gets desperate. I like to think I'm free of PTSD, I get emotional sometimes, but it doesn't last long, surely that's some form of discrimination??


I spent about 18 months in therapy, didnt warrant it, but my old job paid for it as they dont like the thought of being sued later on.
Its not a fair system, but , companies dont warrant having someone that is possibly volitile in the work place.

Just keep banging doors, but that all important phone call makes people think theres a human applying for the job, not some pongo theyre going to have a lot of hassle with.

Once they relate a civilised voice to the application it makes a difference.


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2008)

prt225TT said:


> Like I say I'm doing some rather rubbish temp office work, and went for an interview to work in a council office, but they said they couldnt hire me because they work with asylum seekers from countries I have gone to war in... :lol: erm... thats descimination! :wink: :roll:
> 
> It was only a temp job and didnt really want it, but until I know what I'm going to do, I need to work...
> 
> On the upside, I sit on TT Forum all day at work :roll:


Good effort. lol


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

:lol: :lol: Pongo :lol: :lol: I fucking hate you lot, paras as well. We're all pongos and craphats until you want some hot water or a lift. I worked with RM TACP in Bosnia, top bunch of boys, couldn't call in an airstrike to save their lives though :lol: :lol:


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2008)

LakesTTer said:


> :lol: :lol: Pongo :lol: :lol: I fucking hate you lot, paras as well. We're all pongos and craphats until you want some hot water or a lift. I worked with RM TACP in Bosnia, top bunch of boys, couldn't call in an airstrike to save their lives though :lol: :lol:


Ooops, did i type that out loud? :lol:


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## prt225TT (May 7, 2007)

I'd never ask the army for a lift... the navy however... top bunch of guys, will land in any weather 

I know its mainly Army pilots who fly Apaches... they do a hell of a job out in Afghan, never have any rest! Awesome job too!


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

Grant, thanks for the advice via PM, I've tried to respond but it's not sending for some reason. Thanks again.

Respect.


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2008)

LakesTTer said:


> Grant, thanks for the advice via PM, I've tried to respond but it's not sending for some reason. Thanks again.
> 
> Respect.


I've got them.

Good luck.


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

Looks like I wasn't the only one having problems, sorry for multiple messages :?


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## skydiver (Oct 12, 2006)

Hiya Mate,

Did you do any education prior to leaving? I was in the RAF for ten years and one of the things that was drummed into me was get some education completed WHILST you are still in.

I am assuming you signed up for the elcas scheme? If so it may be an option to take a year off (rather than six months) and get some education done be it vocational or not.

I guess what you have to ask yourself is what it is you actually want to do? Are you looking for a specific career or just a job that will pay the bills? Once you decide that then you can focus on getting into that sector.

People say that the forces are overpaid and in a sense they are if you are trying to compare skills in peacetime with a civy. The skill sets required for the forces in general and especially in war are very different and that is when you earn your crust.

All the best


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

I thought that you left the army on retirement!! I don't mean just you of course but I thought military people retire early and get full pension at early age. Am I wrong?

I would get a good job would be doing things like working in a shooting range, as a doorman (you get nice girls giving you kisses to let them in 8)  ), private investigator, coach, personal bodyguard and so many more that can much your skills.


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## skydiver (Oct 12, 2006)

vlastan said:


> I thought that you left the army on retirement!! I don't mean just you of course but I thought military people retire early and get full pension at early age. Am I wrong?
> 
> I would get a good job would be doing things like working in a shooting range, as a doorman (you get nice girls giving you kisses to let them in 8)  ), private investigator, coach, personal bodyguard and so many more that can much your skills.


It all depends on what service you were in and the contract you received. In the RAF for example you sign a 9 year contract. This can be extended to 12 years after a certain period. If you complete your 9 or 12 years then you qualify for a preserved pension.

This is a small pension made available to you at retirement age. In order to receive a full career pension you must complete 22 years and to obtain this length of contract you need to make the rank of Corporal as a minimum. After you 22 years you can leave with a lump sum and monthly pension relative to your rank that you achieved.

I am sure other services are similar but I can personally only speak for the RAF.

As for jobs relative well that is the key word. People assume that if you have served in the Army for instance then you will naturally be able to go off to Iraq etc. The problem is not everyone who joins the services will be infantry and combat trained to any level. You may have someone who is an engineer who whilst able to handle a weapon they are unlikely to be able to command a section attack as well as an infantry man. And as for close protection that is a world firmly occupied by the Police and on occasion selected UKSF staff.

I guess the main things we all take from the forces are pride in our work, cleanliness, good time keeping and a general respect.


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## prt225TT (May 7, 2007)

skydiver said:


> And as for close protection that is a world firmly occupied by the Police and on occasion selected UKSF staff


Not really mate, since the liberation of Iraq, many many army/marines/para's etc all put their notice in and went on to work in CP. It is true that to work for a GOOD cp company you need to be of a higher calibre, be it long served with lots of operational experience, or SF... there are lots of cowboys out there!


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

skydiver said:


> I guess the main things we all take from the forces are pride in our work, cleanliness, good time keeping and a general respect.


And being able to shoot people if they don't do as they are told.

Seriously Tim, if i can help I will. There were specialist ex-forces recruitment agencies I think, and as I mentioned I went through my induction training with quite a number of ex services people.


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

Thanks for all the hints and tips, it's been really handy.

UPDATE.

I took out all the gubbins from my CV and didn't actually mention my service until I'd explained my many attributes and qualifications and why I should be employed. Having done that I sent a couple of internet applications off last night. The net result, I have an interview for a sales job tomorrow, the salary is very competetive and they have several other ex servicemen working for them, so I'm happier now than I was yesterday 

I'll take it if offered, It'll give me time to decide and pursue other avenues whilst earning some decent cash. Once again, thanks to all who chipped in.


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## skydiver (Oct 12, 2006)

prt225TT said:


> skydiver said:
> 
> 
> > And as for close protection that is a world firmly occupied by the Police and on occasion selected UKSF staff
> ...


Yep that is true, I never really thought of it like that. I guess you tend to forgot that quality goes down when you ask for a lot of something


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## skydiver (Oct 12, 2006)

LakesTTer said:


> Thanks for all the hints and tips, it's been really handy.
> 
> UPDATE.
> 
> ...


Great news


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

I've spent the afternoon tweeking my sales technique. I go from "Buy our great product or it'll go badly for you and your family", to "There's the easy way, and there's the hard way, it's your choice" :lol: I'll probably do a Homer tomorrow and say what I'm thinking.


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

Got the job, start on Monday


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2008)

LakesTTer said:


> Got the job, start on Monday


Fuc**ng excellent.
Good effort.

Grant.


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

The R8 is in sight


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## phodge (Sep 1, 2002)

LakesTTer said:


> Got the job, start on Monday


Big congrats!!


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

Thanks everyone, we can celebrate by having a TT weekend in the Lakes, I'm not payin' though


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## robokn (Feb 21, 2006)

Congratulations mate PM me your email address and I will send a copy of my CV which has all the forces stuff converted into civvy buzz words worked so far now on my forth contract since leaving


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## cuTTsy (Jan 31, 2003)

brilliant congrats...


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## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

Excellent news Tim - pleased for you mate 

All you have to do now is remember not to give your colleagues orders and expect them to jump :wink: :lol:


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## phodge (Sep 1, 2002)

And remember that sometimes they will take their jackets off!!

:lol:


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

phodge said:


> And remember that sometimes they will take their jackets off!!
> 
> :lol:


 :lol: :lol: I'm confused 'cos half the other blokes were wearing ties and half weren't, so I'm not sure what to do, I'll take one just in case, but not a Looney Tunes one, Paul :wink:


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## phodge (Sep 1, 2002)

I think a bow tie in regimental colours should suffice....

:wink:


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## The Silver Surfer (May 14, 2002)

Just seen this thread for the first time. Congrats on the new job, Tim. 

Did you you ever consider the police? Whilst being a 'beat cop' is far from being the best job in the world, once you are in, there are many specialist departments /units, some of which may have suited your ex-military background. There are certainly a fair amount of ex-forces working in the force which I work for.


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

The Silver Surfer said:


> Just seen this thread for the first time. Congrats on the new job, Tim.
> 
> Did you you ever consider the police? Whilst being a 'beat cop' is far from being the best job in the world, once you are in, there are many specialist departments /units, some of which may have suited your ex-military background. There are certainly a fair amount of ex-forces working in the force which I work for.


I've got an application in, apparently there's no recruiting until the spring. I'll take it as far as it can go whilst doing my new job. The money is far better but I'm keen to give the Police a go, I'll just have to see how it goes.


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## skydiver (Oct 12, 2006)

Really made up for you buddy 

Nice to see good guys getting a break 8)


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## UlsTTer (Apr 28, 2005)

prt225TT said:


> Like I say I'm doing some rather rubbish temp office work, and went for an interview to work in a council office, but they said they couldnt hire me because they work with asylum seekers from countries I have gone to war in... :lol: erm... thats descrimination! :wink: :roll:
> 
> It was only a temp job and didnt really want it, but until I know what I'm going to do, I need to work...
> 
> On the upside, I sit on TT Forum all day at work :roll:


If they have actually said that .. it IS DISCRIMINATION mate .. take them up on it :x


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

Tim,

Just caught up - excellent news, well done - hope you enjoy it!


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

Thanks Rob [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## Hark (Aug 23, 2007)

Just read this, haven't spoke to you before I don't think but congrats on the job. Having had no experience with friends in the forces or anything, I honestly didn't know how much of an issue it was for companies.

Best of luck in the new job mate.


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

Hark said:


> Just read this, haven't spoke to you before I don't think but congrats on the job. Having had no experience with friends in the forces or anything, I honestly didn't know how much of an issue it was for companies.
> 
> Best of luck in the new job mate.


Thanks Matt. I think I got lucky, as the guy who got my CV was ex-military and his top salesman was ex-military, I guess it's just the way it worked out.


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

Didn't work out, started on Monday, walked away on Tuesday afternoon after being heartily lied to and ignored :evil:


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## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

LakesTTer said:


> Didn't work out, started on Monday, walked away on Tuesday afternoon after being heartily lied to and ignored :evil:


That sucks mate


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## prt225TT (May 7, 2007)

Lied to about the job? Oh well, easy come easy go, I'm sure you'll find something that grabs you :wink:


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

prt225TT said:


> Lied to about the job? Oh well, easy come easy go, I'm sure you'll find something that grabs you :wink:


It was sales, 6 days a week, long hours and new stuff to learn. That didn't faze me to be honest. But then I find out, on my first day, that I had to come in on my day off to butter up the punters (expecting some double entendre shennanigans), that wouldn't have been too bad, but all the others were in a lodge and could walk to work in 5 mins, I had an hours drive over Kirkstone Pass.
My training consisted of: Shadowing another sales bloke, who swore and told inappropriate jokes, by way of banter.
Standing around with my hands in my pockets waiting for someone to acknowledge my existence.
When a manager finally got round to talking about training, she said, "Just give me a couple of minutes to sort some stuff out then we'll get cracking". 
90 minutes later after she'd smoked about 4 tabs, had 5 cups of coffee, had a girly chat in the office, spent some time surfing. She finally realises that I'm still waiting and says, "Oh Tim, you can shadow so and so", thus relinquishing any managerial responsibility for my training, "I'll find you someone to shadow". At this point, I got my coat, told her what I thought about her managerial credentials and walked out.
If that is indicative of how business in civvy street gets done, then I'm gonna drop the next person who asks about my own managerial skills :evil:


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## prt225TT (May 7, 2007)

Sounds about right. Military life makes you expect a certain standard... which I've recently found out, a lot of civilian jobs are lacking :?

Atleast you are able to walk away from it and didnt have to keep it to pay the bills etc... that would've been a nightmare, sounds like a shite job!

I'm looking into Met police at the mo, just trying to find out whether ex-military goes down well or not, heard good and bad! :?

Paul


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

I've had a Police application in for about a month now, could take a while so I've heard.
I've hopefully got 2 more lined up, ironically civilian contracted to the MOD, trials and development, just waiting for the phone call. Until then, I'm into my savings and gratuity to pay the bills, so there's still no rush.


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## skydiver (Oct 12, 2006)

Thats a pisser mate :?

Reminds me of when I first left I took on a job at a well known car parts shop..... Anyway I was meant to be installing stereos and the like (after 'proper' training) but mostly I was out front serving.

Most of the staff were idiots and when an install didn't go to plan one day the guy just threw all the stuff down (and his teddies out the cot!) I was left to patch up what was left...

The final straw for me was when the delivery van turned up a few weeks before xmas. It had something like 160 odd bikes on it and a load of other stuff. I was left with just me and the driver to unload the damm thing. I finally got my break half an hour before I finished.

What angered me was not the work it was the way every other employee came up with n excuse as to why they could not help. Hiding in the canteen "On my Lunch" etc etc

Now if that had been in the Military the bosses would have said to the lads/lasses right cut your break short just now and lend a hand.


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

LakesTTer said:


> If that is indicative of how business in civvy street gets done, then I'm gonna drop the next person who asks about my own managerial skills :evil:


No way is that indicative! Not all private businesses are that good.


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

Something else that got my goat. They had the Liners(sales people), grafting 'til 6-7-8 o'clock, but they had 90 minutes for lunch. I'd rather have 30 minutes for lunch and finish early. 
While I was waiting for this "training", I filled an A4 sheet of paper with ideas to make the place run more efficiently, never got the chance to show it to anyone though.
Also, this so called manager, who couldn't manage a decent fart, by the way, said. "I think you're old job was relatively normal compared to working here" :roll: :roll: I said, "Yeah........... I love the way I'm not being shot at".


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## skydiver (Oct 12, 2006)

I think the one thing that the Military teaches and instils in you is teamwork and respect.

Even if you absolutely hate someone you can still find it in you to work effectively with them.

That said it ain't perfect either.....


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

skydiver said:


> I think the one thing that the Military teaches and instils in you is teamwork and respect.
> 
> Even if you absolutely hate someone you can still find it in you to work effectively with them.
> 
> That said it ain't perfect either.....


No, you're right, it isn't perfect but works and has worked for a very long time. I know it's maybe a one off, but this experience has angered me a little, insofar as, the arrogance of some organisations to question my ability and skill. I realise that service people are in the minority, but I can't believe that, so called professional companies get run by cowboys. Maybe at my next interview, I'll be asking for their credentials, I think that's only fair.


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2008)

prt225TT said:


> Sounds about right. Military life makes you expect a certain standard... which I've recently found out, a lot of civilian jobs are lacking :?


Spot on Paul.

Sorry to hear this Tim.
Keep going, its just a minor setback.


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

Update...........My application for the Police has been accepted, I'm waiting to be called forward for assessment. Not gonna start doing backflips yet, 1 step at a time


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2008)

LakesTTer said:


> Update...........My application for the Police has been accepted, I'm waiting to be called forward for assessment. Not gonna start doing backflips yet, 1 step at a time


Shit, another ex pongo plod.
Just what this country needs. :wink:

Well done Tim.


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## prt225TT (May 7, 2007)

LakesTTer said:


> Update...........My application for the Police has been accepted, I'm waiting to be called forward for assessment. Not gonna start doing backflips yet, 1 step at a time


Congrats! 

Out of interest which Police force did you apply for? I've been looking into the Police aswell, but the only Force I could find that was recruiting now, that I would consider moving for, was Northumbria... I wanted MET really as I would like to progress to ARV/SFO in the future :twisted:

Think I'll apply for Northumbria now... with the possiblity of transfer down the line... :?:


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

DUO3 NAN said:


> LakesTTer said:
> 
> 
> > Update...........My application for the Police has been accepted, I'm waiting to be called forward for assessment. Not gonna start doing backflips yet, 1 step at a time
> ...


Rest assured, you'll be treated fairly within the boundaries of the law. After Homer Simpson, Judge Dredd is my all time icon and role model.

Thanks Grant.

ps On a separate issue, I recall a thread where you and Lee were discussing various martial arts, Krav Maga and kick boxing, etc etc. There's a Brazilian/South American discipline, kinda combines fighting and break dancing, the BBC had 2 guys on a rooftop doing it during one of their filler. Do you know what it's called?


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