# ferodo ds3000 or mintex 1144



## The Godbarber (Jul 12, 2015)

Hi , have has anyone out there got experience of both of these pads on track.
I am not concerned with stories of no brakes in the cold on the road, im purely talking on track here.
Cheers 
Liam


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## Lawro (May 27, 2012)

No experience of the 1144's on the TT, although I have used them on my RenaultSport Clio and they were okay, more of a fast road pad rather than track IMO.

Ferodo wise, I ran DS3000's last year and they were good but I did get fading once extremely hot. I've since changed to DS1.11's and they're far superior, no fade at all and they last far better than the DS3000's too. Not cheap but the best pads I've used to date.


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## Lawro (May 27, 2012)

Thought I'd better add that I'm running LCR Brembo's with 330mm solid discs and Badger5 braided lines.


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## The Godbarber (Jul 12, 2015)

Ok Lawro , cheers ive never heard of ds1.11

I'll do a but of research.

Cheers 
Liam


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

Comparison of the Ferodo compounds...










So if I'm reading that right, Ds1.11 PDFs offer a consistent bite throughout the temperature range and a better cold bite, but DS3000's offer greater ability of you keep the temp in them??


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## The Godbarber (Jul 12, 2015)

NickG said:


> Comparison of the Ferodo compounds...
> 
> 
> 
> So if I'm reading that right, Ds1.11 PDFs offer a consistent bite throughout the temperature range and a better cold bite, but DS3000's offer greater ability of you keep the temp in them??


Which would back up claims that ds3000 are s*** when cold!!
I still might get ds3000 for trackdays and change them back to road pads when I get home. 
I bought my tt for trackdays but I do sometimes drive it on the road! !


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

The Godbarber said:


> NickG said:
> 
> 
> > Comparison of the Ferodo compounds...
> ...


It certainly seems too! I'm trying to find a similar graph for the Mintex range, would be nice to see where they sit!


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)




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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

You guys really need to get into some serious pads. Carbotech's are the best track pads I have used (and I have tried pretty much everything worth a shot). I never posted about pads selection for the TT in the UK forum because I assumed that they were not readily available. After some Googling, I realized that they have UK distribution as well.

For light/medium track duty I love an XP10/XP12 staggered setup. They have amazing cold bite and superior knock back characteristics for a pad with that coefficient of friction and heat range. The XP10 cold bite is so good, that they could be driven in the streets with zero risk.

For serious tracking and racing, I run and suggest XP20 square setup. These will send you through the windshield with the stock hardware. Overbreaking on these can lock-up all 4 tires with slicks rather easily (I have locked the brakes on these with zero steering angle and 315mm wide race slicks).

http://www.carbotech-europe.com/compounds.htm

Edit: screenshot of the 225 quattro part numbers for all the compounds:


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## The Godbarber (Jul 12, 2015)

The M1155 looks interesting! !


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

Posted coefficient of friction and temp range of the Carbotech compounds. This allows to gauge their compound's use vs other pads:


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## The Godbarber (Jul 12, 2015)

Madmax199 said:


> You guys really need to get into some serious pads. Carbotech's are the best track pads I have used (and I have tried pretty much everything worth a shot). I never posted about pads selection for the TT in the UK forum because I assumed that they were not readily available. After some Googling, I realized that they have UK distribution as well.
> 
> For light/medium track duty I love an XP10/XP12 staggered setup. They have amazing cold bite and superior knock back characteristics for a pad with that coefficient of friction and heat range. The XP10 cold bite is so good, that they could be driven in the streets with zero risk.
> 
> ...


Ahh that's matey off of the mitsubushi lancer register isn't it,Ian something or other if I remember. 
The Tyrant???
I must admit, I didn't even think about them , the mlr love em!!
I never had chance to try them on my evo .
I'll contact him!!!
Cheers
liam


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## The Godbarber (Jul 12, 2015)

Hahaha , it's him and he remembers me , we've had a chat and he's making me some pads! !!

I'll review them after I've done a trackday!!!!!!


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## Jenny H (Aug 25, 2013)

I have Carbotechs on my RS along with AP discs. I have XP10 front and XP8 rear as recommended by Ian. He really knows his stuff. He had to make the rears but only took a couple of days.
Had a lot of problems previously with brake judder on the RS and pad deposits seemed to be the cause. This has finally been cured thanks to the Carbotech pads. I have done 2 track days with them now and no sign of any judder  
They are a bit noisy at times but I would rather have that, than the judder which was making the car nearly undrivable after a couple of track laps. 
Jenny


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## The Godbarber (Jul 12, 2015)

Jenny H said:


> I have Carbotechs on my RS along with AP discs. I have XP10 front and XP8 rear as recommended by Ian. He really knows his stuff. He had to make the rears but only took a couple of days.
> Had a lot of problems previously with brake judder on the RS and pad deposits seemed to be the cause. This has finally been cured thanks to the Carbotech pads. I have done 2 track days with them now and no sign of any judder
> They are a bit noisy at times but I would rather have that, than the judder which was making the car nearly undrivable after a couple of track laps.
> Jenny


Yeah he does know his stuff , ive done trackdays with him years ago as I was a member of the mlr for about five or six years when I had my Evos. 
Was actually good to say hello again regardless!!!

So Jenny next time we do a trackday you won't hear me coming or going as ill have decent rubber as well as brakes!!!


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## who (Nov 20, 2015)

Jenny H said:


> I have Carbotechs on my RS along with AP discs. I have XP10 front and XP8 rear as recommended by Ian. He really knows his stuff. He had to make the rears but only took a couple of days.
> Had a lot of problems previously with brake judder on the RS and pad deposits seemed to be the cause. This has finally been cured thanks to the Carbotech pads. I have done 2 track days with them now and no sign of any judder
> They are a bit noisy at times but I would rather have that, than the judder which was making the car nearly undrivable after a couple of track laps.
> Jenny


I see you haven't mentioned the rediculous amount of disc wear carbotechs also give you? :lol:

Or the low speed road noise. :lol:


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## who (Nov 20, 2015)

The Godbarber said:


> Hi , have has anyone out there got experience of both of these pads on track.
> I am not concerned with stories of no brakes in the cold on the road, im purely talking on track here.
> Cheers
> Liam


Hi Liam,

Good to see you enjoying your 225.

Mintex 1144s aren't performance pads. They're more like end of the day, limp home pads or cheapo pads you put in your GF's car. End of conversation re: 1144s.

Ferofo is ferodo, so they overheat and falls off the car by lunch time, even if they don't fall off the backplate, they don't like heat cycles, so maybe 2 days per set, maybe. So end of conversation re (most) ferodo stuff.

So what you actually want to do is get some race pads that will last you a good many trackdays providing you look after them.

But hey, you get what you pay for, shit pads with no bite that last an hour for 30quid or race pads that lasts a week for £600?

Don't forget your brake fluid please, the most expensive pads won't help you if you get gas lock. Castrol SRF or motul 660 or millers etc etc, but Castrol SRF is miles ahead, oddly also the most dear. I think it's something to do with "you get what you pay for" which also works with " you buy cheap, you buy twice."

Hope your tyres are still fine.

Fantastic find getting a 225 for that much money.

Good to see the TT forum still giving out amazing professional advice backed by real world facts, it's been what? 10 years?+? but somethings never change. brb another 10 years.


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## Jenny H (Aug 25, 2013)

who said:


> Jenny H said:
> 
> 
> > I have Carbotechs on my RS along with AP discs. I have XP10 front and XP8 rear as recommended by Ian. He really knows his stuff. He had to make the rears but only took a couple of days.
> ...


Nice to see someone else who suffers with insomnia :wink: 
Can't comment on the disc wear as yet, still early days. The noise from the brakes at low speed isn't too bad, a little squeal now and then that can be stopped by a couple of hard brake applications. They work well from cold too.
Agree with you re the Castrol SRF fluid, it is superb but very expensive.
Jenny


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## The Godbarber (Jul 12, 2015)

who said:


> The Godbarber said:
> 
> 
> > Hi , have has anyone out there got experience of both of these pads on track.
> ...


Good morning Mr Who , so basically you've just trashed everything, I suppose I'll just get an anchor to chuck out of the rear window to stop me then :lol: 
Seriously , I haven't got a clue brake wise, hence asking the questions!!
All I want is a stiff pedal that gives me confidence, I have never had real decent brakes whatever ive tried.
Closest ive come to a good set up was on my second evo , stock evo brembos , ap strap drive disks and can't remember what pads as it was 2008!!

I can find no strap drive disks for the audi tt but may have missed them!!!

As for Carbotech pads eating discs then I can't answer that as I've not heard that and haven't had any so wouldn't know!!!

I will give an honest opinion of them once I've tried them.

It always seems to me that everyone else has shit hot brakes and I don't whatever I do!!

What do you reccomend then???

By the way , what's your name , are you who I think you are??

Cheers
Liam


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## The Godbarber (Jul 12, 2015)

Oh by the way , my tyres ate shot and so are my pads :twisted:


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## The Godbarber (Jul 12, 2015)

And im not looking for cheap, im looking for correct!!
I am far from loaded but I am not taking any of it with me when I die so ain't scared of spending it while I'm here!!


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

I'd ignore 90% of what that guy wrote, his only 2 posts and slagging off the forum... Someone has a vendetta!

M1144's at £100 a set aren't exactly cheap, and as a first performance pad, I am completely convinced by them!! Next will be M1155's or M1166's I would say, but we'll see how you find your carbotechs first!


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## The Godbarber (Jul 12, 2015)

NickG said:


> I'd ignore 90% of what that guy wrote, his only 2 posts and slagging off the forum... Someone has a vendetta!
> 
> M1144's at £100 a set aren't exactly cheap, and as a first performance pad, I am completely convinced by them!! Next will be M1155's or M1166's I would say, but we'll see how you find your carbotechs first!


Hi Nick , I think I know who it is , and he's a decent Chap, opinionated , but very likeable.
I've only met him twice .

I take on board what everyone says , then do what I want anyway :lol:


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

Okay, so last time I looked this was a track car to be driven on the road rather than a racing car. Here's my real world experience.

Ferodo. I tried DS3000 albeit on my trackday aircooled Porsche (310bhp/tonne). No doubt they stopped the car on track, but on the road they had no bite from cold, were noisy and ate through the dics at an alarming rate. I switched to the 2500's which worked pretty well, but faded on track when pushed, plus I didn't like the feel.

Performance Friction - 94 Compound. Brilliant track day car pad, good bite and feel, not too noisy, no fading, but.....the brown dust they left stuck to everything in the area of the wheels and was a nightmare to remove. You had to clean everything after every event otherwise once it cured, it would not come off. Pity as they were great, performance wise.

Pagid RS range. Blue/yellow/orange. Brilliant in all respects. Noisy, but hey. Only poroblem...wallet wilting price. If money were no object I'd run them, trouble is for me I could never justify the investment even for my road Porsches.

Mintex. After struggling with finding a suitable pad for years I was put on to these by a couple of guys I knew rallying at a pretty high (national) level. They put me in touch with Alan at Questmead, trade supplier in the UK for Mintex and Pagid (basically the same company). Two ranges - M compound and F compound, the latter being a full race car compound. For a road going track car we don't need full race compounds, just bedding them in can be a proper PITA. M compounds are where we are at starting with 1144's (fast road and occasional track day pad) through 1155's, 1166's (what I am running in the TT) and finally 1177's. For me this range offers everything I need. Feel, cold and hot stopping power, zero fade, low dust, disc friendly and at a sensible price that I can justify in my head on what is my 3rd car. My mate Olly is running their F2-R's in his racing Scooby and they have been brilliant. For completeness the R range goes F2-R, F3-R up to F6-R, but as I said, unless it's a full race car you don't need R compounds.

How highly do I rate Mintex and in particular Questmead? The pad compound (OEM Pagid) on my 997 are crap. No feel, wooden and dusty. Mintex don't make a pad for my car so I've commissioned a set of 1144's to be made for it, front and rear. Think they call that putting my money where my mouth is. 

VT


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## The Godbarber (Jul 12, 2015)

Von Twinzig said:


> Okay, so last time I looked this was a track car to be driven on the road rather than a racing car. Here's my real world experience.
> 
> Ferodo. I tried DS3000 albeit on my trackday aircooled Porsche (310bhp/tonne). No doubt they stopped the car on track, but on the road they had no bite from cold, were noisy and ate through the dics at an alarming rate. I switched to the 2500's which worked pretty well, but faded on track when pushed, plus I didn't like the feel.
> 
> ...


Fair comments VT , im trying carbotech purely as I've known the bloke for a decade and haven't heard a bad word about his pads apart from anything written on here and I always said.id try them .
I left the evo forum years ago and with it all thought of Carbotech pads!!!

I'll try them.first!!


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

Personal contact and/or experience is super important GB. Be good to get knowledgeable feedback from you both road and track on these puppies. Objective findings like price and disc wear are important too. Good information will only help those looking to move into trackdays avoid costly mistakes.

Top man! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

VT


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

It is easy to come and say something is this, something is that, but if you don't give a reason why you feel that it is so, it's as good as not having anything at all. Mr who pretty much said everything is bad, nothing about what he considers good, and why. He said carbotech are rotor eaters ... Not mentioning what coumpound in particular. A full race pad like the XP16 or XP20 with .70+ coefficient of friction will go through rotors at a faster rate than something with 30% lower coefficient of friction. A race pad, any race pad, with such coefficient of friction will have these characteristics. As I said, and I have tried too many pads in various compounds to list them all, Carbotech has the some of the friendliest compounds in terms of operating range, pad knock-back, and modulation of everything I've used.


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## The Godbarber (Jul 12, 2015)

Von Twinzig said:


> Personal contact and/or experience is super important GB. Be good to get knowledgeable feedback from you both road and track on these puppies. Objective findings like price and disc wear are important too. Good information will only help those looking to move into trackdays avoid costly mistakes.
> 
> Top man! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
> 
> VT


I hear that mate , ill let you know in a few weeks when they are on and then when it's dry enough to do a trackday with them! !


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

Madmax199 said:


> It is easy to come and say something is this, something is that, but if you don't give a reason why you feel that it is so, it's as good as not having anything at all. Mr who pretty much said everything is bad, nothing about what he considers good, and why. He said carbotech are rotor eaters ... Not mentioning what coumpound in particular. A full race pad like the XP16 or XP20 with .70+ coefficient of friction will go through rotors at a faster rate than something with 30% lower coefficient of friction. A race pad, any race pad, with such coefficient of friction will have these characteristics. As I said, and I have tried too many pads in various compounds to list them all, Carbotech has the some of the friendliest compounds in terms of operating range, pad knock-back, and modulation of everything I've used.


Quite right. Subjective option is worthless, as is the.... "I know a bloke who's uncles, cousins, mate ran xxx pads in his 1000hp rallycross car and said they were rubbish." Completely worthless opinion.

VT


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## who (Nov 20, 2015)

Jenny H said:


> who said:
> 
> 
> > Jenny H said:
> ...


You get what you pay for no? They work well from cold due to their disc eating properties, all of them, they deliberately make them like so to allow for consistancy.

Would you agree 45Bs 46Bs don't squeal like that?


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## who (Nov 20, 2015)

The Godbarber said:


> who said:
> 
> 
> > The Godbarber said:
> ...


The problem with motorsport advice from a non motorsport forum is that the vast majority don't use their cars and items in a motorsport fashion. So when ABC comes along and says 1144s are REALLY good or EBC stuff are REALLY good or DS2500 3000 are really good, at most they only do a few giggle laps on a day, only a few days per month.

As said Alan or better yet, john, if he is still working and not ill at home @ questmead will sort a set of F6R for you. 01706 363939

If you're willing to pay for it, they'll even machine out a floating bell and provide you with some proper discs.

They have every fluid on the shelf too.

Becareful regarding the purchase and fitment of calipers, as they will very very likely not fit inside your wheels.

So i.e. don't bother with those 4 pot brembos unless you are prepared to get a set of wheels.

You can run F series pads on the road without any problems, much like everything else, you can use anything if used correctly.

You're best running endurance pads. Less maintenance and cheapest in the long run.

Consider MA45b/46b, MX17 if you're penny pinching.


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## who (Nov 20, 2015)

NickG said:


> I'd ignore 90% of what that guy wrote, his only 2 posts and slagging off the forum... Someone has a vendetta!
> 
> M1144's at £100 a set aren't exactly cheap, and as a first performance pad, I am completely convinced by them!! Next will be M1155's or M1166's I would say, but we'll see how you find your carbotechs first!


Don't have a vendetta, but I do have some viennetta. Would you like some?

M1144's at £100 a set aren't exactly cheap... (actually £70-80 if you know where to buy from...)

yes they are, dirt cheap, all things considered.

See price per set of See price per set of mintex F series, Endless 88Gs. You may have to actually call and Endless dealer for prices of 88Gs as they are a special order item only.

Infact, they are so cheap, you couldn't get anything cheaper unless you went back to OEM.

1166 are kind of worth trying once... kind of... don't heat cycle well. Not completely dissimilar to RS14/5.

Avoid rest of the RS range, hard to look after. But they do arrive in a nice box.

In regards to personal comments, if you read my previous posts again, I was here 10 years ago. These aren't my initial posts. Not my first time giving accurate information as well as upsetting people.

Nice steering.


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

No offence intended, but you'll appreciate that when you get people on here who have no posts and come and criticise all previous comments you have to assume they are yet another idiot!

It sounds like you might know what your talking, what's your background, literally "who" are you! :lol:

You'll find if you stick around and get to know us, particularly in this Track section, we're willing to listen to new ideas and thoughts, but it does help if we know who we're talking to! Myself, i'm new to track driving, but i'm willing to learn and listen to advice. Aiming toward some competition events in 2017!

Again, no offence meant to be caused to a genuine member!


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## who (Nov 20, 2015)

NickG said:


> No offence intended, but you'll appreciate that when you get people on here who have no posts and come and criticise all previous comments you have to assume they are yet another idiot!
> 
> It sounds like you might know what your talking, what's your background, literally "who" are you! :lol:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the apology,

I am NOT a genuine member, I only skim forums for the odd Vagcom codes for my MK3 hairdresser.

Did notice Liam struggling with brake selection and dropped a few lines because he was rapidly looking like he was going to lose a load of money on silly pads.

Could be worse, someone could have suggested EBC yellow stuff. >.<

Liam and bro are my current heros for tracking unknown tyres and keeping up with morons on 888s.

Anyways, Eric's going to disappear again.

See you in 10 years.

Miss you Jenny.


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

NickG said:


> No offence intended, but you'll appreciate that when you get people on here who have no posts and come and criticise all previous comments you have to assume they are yet another idiot!
> 
> It sounds like you might know what your talking, what's your background, literally "who" are you! :lol:
> 
> ...


To me it's not even that, it's the information given (or not given). When you say something that sounds like knocking the entire Carbotech lineup based on "how agressive they are to rotors" without mentioning what compound you're talking about -- or give F6R (a low TQ compound often used in the back of race cars) as a suggestion, it's hard for educated members to take the information seriously. But I digress, everyone have their opinions on what is good, and what's not.


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

who said:


> NickG said:
> 
> 
> > No offence intended, but you'll appreciate that when you get people on here who have no posts and come and criticise all previous comments you have to assume they are yet another idiot!
> ...


Ahhh so this is the infamous car breaking Eric!? :lol:

Agreed, EBC could have been mentioned, show pads! I have to disagree regarding Mintex Pads however, they're a sensible pad for the money, without spending ridiculous £££ on a road going car and they do stop, i know that as a fact! :lol:


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

Here's my 2 cents.

When I was in the brake pad wilderness I took direct advice from friends involved in competitive Motorsport, they put me on to Mintex, but were not arrogant enough to suggest a compound. I contacted Alan at Questmead, told him what car I had and what I was doing with it and listened to his advice. Each time I've needed advice I've spoken to him. Recently after fitting the V-Maxx calipers, I went back to him, with a view to moving up to the F-compounds, specifically the F2-R's we were running in the race car. He specifically cautioned against it saying it was too big a jump and that I should try the 1166's, run them for a bit then report back. That's where I'm at. On the road they give me everything I need, on the track I could do with a little more initial bite, so in the New Year I'll discuss it with him and see what he suggest, It might be a case of putting my boot in harder :lol: Brake application on track requires a different technique and it's difficult to master if you're only doing a few trackdays a year.

For me, at this time, I'm working my way through the Mintex range as they give me what I want the most important of which is feel and modulation. To date I haven't paid more than £85 for a set and at no time will I be sticking an F6-R in my calipers, that I'm afraid, is complete cobblers. I'm not building a racing car. Offence intended. :?

VT


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## Jenny H (Aug 25, 2013)

who said:


> NickG said:
> 
> 
> > No offence intended, but you'll appreciate that when you get people on here who have no posts and come and criticise all previous comments you have to assume they are yet another idiot!
> ...


Come back Eric [smiley=bigcry.gif] 
We need you to liven up the forum [smiley=gossip.gif] 
Jenny
x


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## The Godbarber (Jul 12, 2015)

who said:


> NickG said:
> 
> 
> > No offence intended, but you'll appreciate that when you get people on here who have no posts and come and criticise all previous comments you have to assume they are yet another idiot!
> ...


What,sorry who,you are a f##king star :lol:

I will get In anything and drive it mate,I turned down the chance to drive in the Mumbai rally years ago as they would not cover my mortgage payments for the months I would have been out there, he saw me hammering (would like to say fitting) bits into one of my pugs,watched me on a trackday and said I had what it took to become the Kenyan cowboy!!!!
He was a rally driver called assa Singh rallied datsuns in the 70s!!

I digress , I am still going to waste my money on some Carbotech pads as I am a man of my word.

but in all honesty if I hadn't have got in your car I wouldn't have appreciated what excellent brakes are!!!

Next time I'll drive you round again,and if you say my brakes are shit then you can get out and walk back to the pits! !!!

Oh can I have some vienetta????

Oh and we knew exactly what those tyres were,utter shite hahahah

Peace :-*


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## bigbison (Jul 31, 2007)

ferodo ds3000 or 2500 dont think of anything else


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## The Godbarber (Jul 12, 2015)

bigbison said:


> ferodo ds3000 or 2500 dont think of anything else


Cheers mate , I think I'll just have a go of them all and see what's best! !!!!!


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## Prawn (May 14, 2015)

bigbison said:


> ferodo ds3000 or 2500 dont think of anything else


Bit late to the party here, but one of the above is a perfectly good suggestion, and one is awful.

I wouldn't put 2500's on my car if you paid me! God awful things.


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## The Godbarber (Jul 12, 2015)

Prawn said:


> bigbison said:
> 
> 
> > ferodo ds3000 or 2500 dont think of anything else
> ...


Well I've just bought a four pot set up complete with discs and ds 2500s so if they're crap ill not use them again!!!


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

Prawn said:


> bigbison said:
> 
> 
> > ferodo ds3000 or 2500 dont think of anything else
> ...


Hey Prawn, good to see you around! It's beyond me how people can say DS2500 , Hawk HP+, Mintex 1144 are suitable for track duty. If there is any sort of aggressiveness, or the driving level is past beginner status, it's borderline suicidal to track on these pads. I call them 4/10th pads when I instruct, If you have those on your car you shouldn't be driving more than 4/10th because I won't allow it. Most of the time, as soon as people start trying trailbraking or diving deeper into braking zones, they realize the inadequacy of such pads, and move to something better. I'ts insane to me that in Internet forums all you find people advising others to use these when true track rats like us know to avoid them like the plague.


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## Prawn (May 14, 2015)

Madmax199 said:


> It's beyond me how people can say DS2500 , Hawk HP+, Mintex 1144 are suitable for track duty. If there is any sort of aggressiveness, or the driving level is past beginner status, it's borderline suicidal to track on these pads. I call them 4/10th pads when I instruct, If you have those on your car you shouldn't be driving more than 4/10th because I won't allow it. Most of the time, as soon as people start trying trailbraking or diving deeper into braking zones, they realize the inadequacy of such pads, and move to something better. I'ts insane to me that in Internet forums all you find people advising others to use these when true track rats like us know to avoid them like the plague.


Bang on Max!

As snobby as it sounds, and I'm not suggesting it should ever be implemented, advise given on such topics should be listed along with a PB lap time at various well known tracks as an indication of it's relative validity!

Obviously that'll never happen, but as you say, with more experience comes more understanding, and once you start to push the chassis towards it's upper limits of capability, many commonly accepted 'good parts' don't meet the required standard.

95% won't ever reach the pace at which this unfolds though, so the vast majority will never know.

On my own car, on previous brake setups, my Dad has always been able to lap the car all day without issue at all.

He's not slow, and holds his own, but probably drives the car at 8/10ths compared to how I drive it, and it's only when I'm really pressing on that the issues have become apparent, and that extra pace is shown in the respective lap times.

2s per lap may not sound like much, but it can be the difference between lapping all day problem free, and destroying the brakes in a 10 minute stint


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