# Haldex Oil and Filter - Filter for life?



## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Morning all,

Apologies in advance for not bumping an old thread, I'm in a bit of rush...and pickle. We all know the debacle with Audi claiming there is no need to change the Haldex filer on some of the newer cars. Long story short I booked my TTS in for various work including haldex oil and filter several weeks ago. I've spoken to several members of staff since and they have all stated that they can change the filter according to my registration. Anyway I have dropped the car off this morning and I bought up the haldex filter. Have a guess at what they said. It's a filter for life. Anyway I even spoke to one of the techs and they said they will have a look and call me and also send me the Audi cam footage. He stated if they can change they wiil. I will call Audi UK in the meantime although I have already spoken to them in between booking the car and today.

I suppose my question is where do I stand? If they are adamant it's a metal filter for life is it worth me taking the car somewhere else? Or will another garage tell me the same and cannot /will not change the filter? Car registered July 2009.

Many thanks in advance.

Scott


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

I've seen a fair few reports of Haldex pump failure in the Gen 4 unit (that's the one you have) and have helped to diagnose some from the warning lights and fault codes.

These people, just one such company, have probably seen many more of those faults and on many VAG cars other than the TT: http://www.haldexrepairs.co.uk/index.html#gen4

From an engineering point of view a filter is DESIGNED to collect the particles that contaminate the oil. It's quite logical then that it will, at some stage, become clogged with those particles unless it is replaced at some predetermined interval.

The filter isn't cheap - but I would replace it at every oil change.

The issue with Audi dealers is their inability or unwillingness to act (or perhaps think) outside of their 'approved procedures'. 
I'll be surprised if they actually change the filter.


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Morning brittain,

Thanks for the reply. It's mad isn't it. I've told them I don't mind taking the cost as it's something I would like to be done. To be fair they are calling me before they carry out any Haldex work a spare I've said to them if they are not changing the filter then I would rather take the car somewhere else. Something which the tech said was that the newer filters "for life" are "built" into the car and are cooled via the radiator. If it is one of these filters then it is more of a significant job. The tech mentioned the older style filter and described it which fits in with pictures I've seen on this forum - only way I can describe it is a found filter you would find at the bottom corner of a washing machine.

I'm calling Audi UK now, again, and will update you with their patter.

Thanks again

Scott


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## bhoy78 (Oct 30, 2014)

Audi won't change the filter as they don't have the part number on their system apparently :roll:

This has came up a few times recently where people have been told audi will change the haldex filter and they have came back saying it wasn't done as its a lifetime part.

The same gen 4 haldex units are used across the vag range. Vw/skoda etc class it as a serviceable part.

I got mine done at autofaultfinder. Someone ordered a filter from the EU it was much cheaper. Awesome also supply the filter:

https://www.awesomegti.com/shop-by-car/ ... ement-kit/


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## bhoy78 (Oct 30, 2014)

By the way Scott the link that Brittan put up, the guy Matt is fantastic. He told me he had actually contacted audi uk numerous times trying to get them to start changing haldex filters.

All he deals with are Haldex units, while I was there he was dealing with audi's, golfs, even big articulated trucks as they also have haldex units and he was getting phone calls from dealers all over the country that were sending him units.

He will supply a filter kit by post or if your close enough pop in and get your haldex oil and filter changed there 8)


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

bhoy78 said:


> Audi won't change the filter as they don't have the part number on their system apparently :roll:


Yes, and I've just looked at a parts list to double check.



bhoy78 said:


> The same gen 4 haldex units are used across the vag range. Vw/skoda etc class it as a serviceable part.


Also yes, you couldn't make it up.

From the people I linked to above:
Filter kit - £52
Filter only - £32


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Hi bhoy78,

Glad to know I've got two senior memebers of the forum helping. I'll have a look into those links brittan and yourself have posted. In your eyes if Audi came back and said it's a filter for life and they cannot change the part would you take the car elsewhere? I am tempted to be fair. I've spoken to a chap from TPS, cannot find a part listed but I'm presuming it's a specialist part hence the lack of knowledge. I suppose the nexxt battle is finding a specialist that will do it. I live in Birmingham. I'll check out those links. Audi UK have said that I should receive a reason if they don't change the filter even if it is a filter for life. They also stated if I'm not happy with the response that they will log an investigation and dig deeper into the situation.

Thanks all

Sxott


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Checked out the website and tried calling but no one available unfortunately. Their website describes cars up to 2009 having a Gen2 filter. Brittan you mention I have the Gen4 filter. Is there anyway of finding out for definite?

Cheers

Scott


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

The guy from the website above is fantastic, just buy the parts off him or if you cant get him get the filter kit from Awesome, but its cheaper off auto fault finder!

Its easy to fit just fiddly and yes you should change it, Audi will tell you they cant/wont but you should, my filter was clogged up and burnt my pump out so I got the whole lot changed and my TTS only had 35k miles on it. I will now change the filter every couple of years with the oil.


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## dea (Jan 3, 2015)

There was a Gen2->Gen4 change for the whole Haldex system when TTS got introduced in cars built on or after 2008.5.

If your car is model year 2009, it might have been built before 2008.5 and could theoretically still have Gen2 Haldex.


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Hi Danny,

Thanks for the reply. I find it bizarre that I'm essentially trying to give Audi money for parts they say "are not needed". I don't need 8 loaves of bread from the baker each week but he doesn't try to stop me buying them (for the record I don't eat 8 loaves of bread each week). I'm still awaiting the call from Audi at which point I will ask them to cancel the Haldex oil change. I'll no doubt buy the filter kit and ask another garage to onthe work. Autofaultfinder is in Crewe and looks to be a 110 mile round trip for me. It's an excuse to give the motor a blast!

Thanks again to all.

Scott


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Hi all,

Just received the AudiCam footage and they state there is no filter to change. The footage shows the tech going under the car and pointing to a blank area and states that this is where the filter should be.

Any thoughts?

Scott


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## bhoy78 (Oct 30, 2014)

As Danny says just get the parts from autofaultfinder on the link Brittan supplied. What to watch for with audi is that other members have had their car in for a service and have been assured they were getting a filter change, ended up the filter they were referring to was the oil filter and not the haldex one :roll:

If you do a search on the net you will find the part numbers for the filter as it is the same Gen 4 haldex unit in other vag cars


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Hi all,

Quick update. I've canned the Haldex work with Audi. I called Matthew at Auto Fault Finder. Genuinely nice chap and certainly knows his stuff. He seems to have stopped his workshop work and is now mainly focused on the mail order repairs and parts etc. So, I've called two separate VAG specialist, one recommended by a friend and the other recommended by another friend and also from posts on this forum. Both of them have said they do not change the filter on the latest generation Haldex and will only change the oil. Surprisingly just for haldex oil changes both of them were more expensive than Audi. So my next quandary is that I can source the parts at reasonable cost, it's finding someone to do the work, preferably within a reasonable distance of Birmingham. Has anyone any recommendations at all?

Cheers

Scott


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

ScoTTS... said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Quick update. I've canned the Haldex work with Audi. I called Matthew at Auto Fault Finder. Genuinely nice chap and certainly knows his stuff. He seems to have stopped his workshop work and is now mainly focused on the mail order repairs and parts etc. So, I've called two separate VAG specialist, one recommended by a friend and the other recommended by another friend and also from posts on this forum. Both of them have said they do not change the filter on the latest generation Haldex and will only change the oil. Surprisingly just for haldex oil changes both of them were more expensive than Audi. So my next quandary is that I can source the parts at reasonable cost, it's finding someone to do the work, preferably within a reasonable distance of Birmingham. Has anyone any recommendations at all?
> 
> ...


Awesome GTI did mine a couple of months ago, its really not a big job either.


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## qooqiiu (Oct 12, 2007)

First find out wether you have the gen 2 or gen 4 haldex.

If it's gen 4 you can get the filter for about £53ish certainly not the exorbitant price awesome are asking.

Part number for the gen 4 haldex filter is (111358)


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## qooqiiu (Oct 12, 2007)

It's worrying but not suprising how little the Audi techs know about most aspects of the cars they "service"

Last year the master tech told me that the rear discs can be removed without removing the caliper carrier. You 100% cannot.


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Thanks qooqiiu. I've bee told by Awesome GTi I have the Gen4 filter, just wish they were a little closer. Thanks for the part number, useful info. I just think it's mad that I can't give Audi my money.

Thanks to dear also for the earlier post. You are spot on with the dates, they marry up with exactly what Awesome stated. I'm not an expert but could Audi build a car pre June 2008 and then be registered in July 2009?


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## JohnLZ7W (Apr 12, 2006)

It depends on what year your car was built. Early build TTS had the Gen2 Haldex, newer cars have Gen4.

Audi does list a part# for Gen2, not sure if the repair manuals list a maintenance interval for it though.
http://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/produc ... 98574.html

For Gen4 Haldex there is no part # anywhere in the VW/Audi parts system but the filter can be purchased from a 3rd party.
http://lz7w.blogspot.com/2015/03/gen4-h ... ilter.html


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Hi John

Thanks for the posting the Gen4 filter replacement, greatly appreciated. I presume when changing the fluid the overall approach is 1. Drain fluid. 2. Replace filter. 3. Fill with new fluid. What's interesting is on the photos in that tutorial you can see the filter housing is located next to the haldex system. On the AudiCam footage I was sent the tech stated there is no filter and pointed to a blank area where the filter should be. However I've compared both images and I'm sure I can see the filter housing on my car. I'll try and post some pics. Difficulty now is finding out if my car is Gen2 or Gen4....and then finding somewhere reasonably local to carry out the work.

Scott


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

ScoTTS... said:


> I'm not an expert but could Audi build a car pre June 2008 and then be registered in July 2009?


The vast majority of TTs are build to order in the first buyer's spec. That time interval between build and first registration is very most highly unlikely.


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Thanks brittan, my thoughts also. If the the G2 to G4 change was at 2008.5, Audi tell me they don't change the newer haldex filters, and Awesome also claim it's a G4 then I'm going with the G4 option.


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## Gtturbo (Jan 7, 2017)

Check the haldex exploded parts screen and your find the filter is behind a screw in cover.

These are suffering with pump problems, Audi tech bulletin states to clean out the pump of debris.

Where's the debris coming from...... you guessed it.... it's the filter breaking down  yet they still won't admit it needs a service interval.

Most Audi dealers have lost a lot of long term highly trained staff due to the extended working hours, so Audi dealers are now mostly low trained, young techs getting paid naff all, rushing around because they get bonus'd on Audicam's and how much they get done in a day

You want quality go specialist as most are the high trained ex main dealer techs


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## JohnLZ7W (Apr 12, 2006)

Yes typically you'd do a filter and fluid service at the same time although I was just changing the filter. I don't think I really lost any fluid at all, the filter is mounted up quite high in the housing.

The cover plate for the filter can give you a clue as to which you've got. The Gen2 cover I think is round:









While the Gen4 cover is not:









Finally to check for certain you can identify the coupling based on the number stamped on the Haldex itself... This is from HPA's website:


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## qooqiiu (Oct 12, 2007)

Here is a guide on how to do it.

http://forums.mwerks.com/showthread.php ... lter-Gen-4

I'm not at all keen on a wood screw and levering it out tho! 
There is another guide and video (in Russian) where they activate the pressure in the unit via VCDS and the oil splurges out. Again, not keen on that route! Another guy claimed that starting the engine for a few seconds with the cap removed is enough to start edging out the filter.

Hmmm

What a PITA


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Thanks all much appreciated. I know it's awkward to see but the below is the comparison. The second picture for the procedure for the G4 just has metal cover removed exposing the plastic bung. The AudiCam footage 'seems' to show some sort of filter housing next to the haldex.

AudiCam footage. This is underneath my car.









Taken from procedure:


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## JohnLZ7W (Apr 12, 2006)

ScoTTS... said:


> Thanks all much appreciated. I know it's awkward to see but the below is the comparison. The second picture for the procedure for the G4 just has metal cover removed exposing the plastic bung. The AudiCam footage 'seems' to show some sort of filter housing next to the haldex.


Tough to tell from that angle but that looks more like the gen4 cover plate.


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Thanks John. Similar thoughts also, especially considering the age of the vehicle and Audi's lack of enthusiasm to change the part. The indentations on the side of the cover look very similar to the G4 in my opinion. Mad thing is my car was up on the ramp a few days ago to get a better look at the rear shocks. Being generally interested I was looking under the car for a good 10 mins nosing around the different parts. I even remember looking at the silver Haldex plate which I now know is the controller.

Question to all. Does anyone know of a company that will change the G4 filter within or around the Midlands area? I'm more than happy to purchase the parts, and I could even get the haldex oil change at Audi. I've called four different Vag specialists and all have stated they do not change the filters on the G4 units. Failing anyone local I'd be driving to Manchester to get the work done.

Cheers

Scott


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## rajanm1 (Feb 1, 2014)

ScoTTS... said:


> Thanks John. Similar thoughts also, especially considering the age of the vehicle and Audi's lack of enthusiasm to change the part. The indentations on the side of the cover look very similar to the G4 in my opinion. Mad thing is my car was up on the ramp a few days ago to get a better look at the rear shocks. Being generally interested I was looking under the car for a good 10 mins nosing around the different parts. I even remember looking at the silver Haldex plate which I now know is the controller.
> 
> Question to all. Does anyone know of a company that will change the G4 filter within or around the Midlands area? I'm more than happy to purchase the parts, and I could even get the haldex oil change at Audi. I've called four different Vag specialists and all have stated they do not change the filters on the G4 units. Failing anyone local I'd be driving to Manchester to get the work done.
> 
> ...


Have a look at the ttshop


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Hi rajanm1, thanks for the suggestion. I'm afraid ttshop is still a 172 mile round trip. I'm still on the hunt....


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

Try telling your indys to do it and not ask if they do it, its a simple change just fiddly anyone can do it.


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Asking the indy was the second option. I was going to get the filter replaced and then possibly take to Audi for the oil change. I spoke to one of the VAG specialists today, only 6 miles away. They originally told me they only change the Gen2 filters. However had a chat with one of their guys today and I mentioned it's 'looks' pretty much the same procedure but just a different filter plate. I'm happy to be corrected on that though. They've asked to take a look before I order the new filter kit so I will try to pop it in to them next week. I'm sure fairly certain they would increase sales a little if they offered the Gen4 filter replacement. Update hopefully coming soon.


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Many thanks to all who have posted so far. Apologies in advance for sounding like a broken record on loop. I've just had a phone convo with the senior service manager at the Audi dealer I use. Just for the record this chap is incredibly helpful and has really gone above and beyond in the past. Anyway I thought I'd test the water by suggesting that I would purchase the Gen4 filter if Audi would fit and carry out Haldex oil change at same time. He called me back after speaking with the servicing department and they are adamant there is no filter. I mentioned I could send him comparison of pics from under my car with the picture from the Gen4 procedure JohnLZ7W kindly sent on page 2. Service manager stated he watched the AudiCam footage and said he could not see the filter and that there is none on the later haldex models so no real point in sending the info over to him.

My question is, can any of the eagle eyed see if the area indicated by the red arrow in AudiCam footage beneath my car looks like the haldex filter housing plate. Appreciate it's difficult as quality is poor, it's a screen grab from the video. Second picture taken from the procedure.

AudiCam footage:









Gen4 Procedure on TT









I'll attemp to get the car on a ramp this week to take a look. I'm just trying to determine whether to steer clear from Audi at the moment.

Many thanks all.

Scott


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

As best as I can tell from that screen grab, it looks like the two bolt filter cap to me.

Nothing like giving it a Mk1 eyeball though.


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Cheers brittan. Looking at those parts in the pics it certainly does seem to reveal the 'newer' filter housing in the same positions. I'm still at a loss on why Audi are adament that there is no filter?? Any other opinions on the pictures welcome.


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

There is no debate on this subject mate, there is a filter, its "meant" to be one for life, yes you can buy replacement and yes its a pretty easy but can be fiddly job. I have had it done, Awesome told you and sell the filter, so did Matt from the very first website given in the thread. You have pictures of the actual filter and fitting kit its 2 bolts and filter slides in lol.

Anyone, and I mean anyone that calls themselves a VAG specialist/indy(inc AUDI) that refuses to do this or even acknowledge that the part exists would not be touching my car! I also wouldnt give them a penny of my money ever again.

Dont waste your time trying to get idiots to do it for you, just go to someone that knows what they are doing. When I spoke to Matt he said he has done hundreds of these, its a problem and better doing it than your pump going like mine did! FWD is no fun in a TTS


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Cheers Danny. Just trying to get opinions on the pictures above so my mind isn't playing tricks  I'm afraid Matt at Auto Fault Finder only looks at the mail order repairs now and does not focus on the workshop as he would have been my first choice as he is only 50 miles from me.


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

ScoTTS... said:


> Cheers Danny. Just trying to get opinions on the pictures above so my mind isn't playing tricks  I'm afraid Matt at Auto Fault Finder only looks at the mail order repairs now and does not focus on the workshop as he would have been my first choice as he is only 50 miles from me.


Yeah I know Matt isnt doing workshop work, but the guy is very helpful and if you want any info he will know more than anyone, ring and order the parts off him and have a chat about any questions you have.


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## BMTTS (Jan 29, 2016)

I've just look at this post now, so sorry I couldn't help earlier.

Only last December I was in the same quandary as you. I sourced the Gen 4 filter from eBay, item number 311745050604 @ £55.00
Then got a really good indy to fit it (Just Audi Lincoln) they did the job no messing around & only charged me for the Haldex oil swap.


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Hi BMTTS, thanks for the reply. That's awesome. Especially not charging you to fit the part. I'm hopefully popping the car into VAG specialists on Friday to see if they are happy with replacing the part before I order the filter. Just keeping my fingers crossed.


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## BMTTS (Jan 29, 2016)

To be fair I had a full works service at the same time so I guess they weren't too bothered about a relatively small job.


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Quick question. Has anyone reading this thread carried out the Gen4 filter change themselves? I ask as I'm wondering if the process is the same as the Gen2 change? Helps me sell it to the specialist hopefully.


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## bhoy78 (Oct 30, 2014)

Did you ask that Matt if he would do it for you at his house if he doesn't have a unit anymore? in his unit he just put the car up on 2 ramps, he had my haldex unit off in no time at all. Guess he is used to it though.


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Hi bhoy78. I had a long chat with Matt last week. Really nice bloke who knows his beans. He just doesn't do the removal/fitting work anymore and only deals with mail order repairs. He only stopped recently as well. :? I'll see what happens Friday when I get to see the specialist who originally said they wouldn't change as it's a 'life long' filter.


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## bhoy78 (Oct 30, 2014)

I had the same trouble, I went to a mechanic I have used for years he said he had never touched a haldex unit before and he mentioned a place up here that does haldex work on landrovers.

Gave them a call, can only assume that the units on landrovers are totally different and complex because the guy was making out it would take 6 hours to remove it and then refurbing the unit etc. Said he had never done an audi before, maybe that's the case or maybe he was just at it.

Thought screw that, drove down, matt had it done in no time and the misses got a days shopping at Cheshire oaks so she was a happy bunny :lol:

Anyway I don't know how far awesome gti or the other main audi indy is from you but why not just go there, someone who knows what their doing and get it sorted, job done. Audi are never going to do it for you mate.


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## C00P5TT5 (Jul 10, 2016)

But is it not the case that Audi won't do it because it doesn't need doing? I had mine done by audi and they didn't change the filter. I even phoned a filter supplier when it was being done and they said they didn't have the part listed, so it begs the following questions:

1. Why would audi not want to charge you for changing it?

2. Why are they not readily available to buy?

3. Why does a plastic tiny filter cost approx £50

Are businesses just not making money for old rope? Any indy will do the work especially when you turn up with the parts. I see both points of view but it just doesn't make sense, unless Audi are relying on income from haldex unit replacement. Which i doubt seen as the quattro has been there flag ship since the 80s


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Awesome is a 150 mile round trip I'm afraid. The route is also via the one of the biggest car parks in the UK, otherwise known as the M6  The one I'm visiting is only 6 miles from me and as well as a good friend recommending them they seem to have really good reviews on this forum. Their apprehension has put me off somewhat but I'm grasping at straws at the moment. I'll let you know what they say. Surely other people are in a similar position so would also be boosting sales a little.


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

I can see your point exactly C005TT5. However when it comes to motoring I like to minimise risk. And after reading the pages of wisdom in this forum for the last 12 months I feel comfortable listening to the advice of others with similar quandaries, especially the seniors and mods. As well as this for the sake of £50 for a little plastic filter I would sleep a little easier at night knowing it has been replaced, even if Audi say it doesn't need it. Read this thread for example, Danny explained his haldex pump started playing up at 35k. I'm on 55k and doubt the filter has ever been changed. Am I gambling with time, may be. Will the Haldex survive another 55k miles, who knows...

Edit: Audi stated they will not change the filter because it has not got a filter!! So they state there is nothing to change. Yet in the next breath they state it's a life long filter. I've given up on Audi. Bit scary considering I've spoken to several people who sell and fit them albeit they are a little far to travel to - at the moment.


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## bhoy78 (Oct 30, 2014)

Audi like to work on the basis of just changing a full item rather than just the faulty component. For instance if your haldex board suffers from corrosion from water ingress, which is a less common fault than pump failure but does happen due to the location of the unit, then audi will say it needs a new haldex unit at £1200 rather than taking out and either using contact cleaner to take the corrosion off and reseal the unit or if the pcb board has had its day just replacing the board.

With pump failure, which someone earlier in this thread gave some great insight into why it happens due to the build up of sludge or whatever in the filter then at least audi sell the pump separately. This will still cost around £600/700.

Should it happen? no of course not. I actually spoke to the master tech at my local dealership about the haldex units. He confirmed that he is seeing the same issues more frequently now and that although he knows he can just change a component that they don't do that. Its a bolt on bolt on procedure that audi tend to do.

A majority of audi owners will just accept what they are told and pay whatever audi ask, they don't question the repair. We as car enthusiasts like to look into these things to find out why they happen and also what we can do to prevent any issues.

Remember the main thing with audi is, your buying a premium brand but you don't get premium service. How many times have you been in an audi dealership to look at a car and they make you feel like they are doing you a favour allowing you to give them your hard earned.

They aren't all that way but in the main over the years that has been my experience. I spoke to a car dealer I know recently and he told me that everyone he speaks to says the same, they aren't interested unless your a footballer or whatever.

Maybe unfair of me to tar all dealerships the same but up here they are all owned by the same company, prices are much higher than down south and they don't even entertain the fact that you can buy the same car or service several thousand pounds cheaper in England, if you dare to suggest it they look at you as if you have 2 heads.

Audi TT's great cars, Audi aftercare well I think you can see my views on that


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Quick update. Spoke with another two VAG specialists today. One wouldn't touch the long-life filter as they don't know the procedure. Another are reluctant because they cannot locate the part with TPS even though I have offered to purchase the part. That's 3 out of 4 'specialists' that won't do the work. As far as I know they are not small businesses either. Bizarre. Must not be a call for this in the Midlands :? As stated the fourth originally said no but will look under car hopefully on Friday.


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## Dieseljuice (Oct 5, 2015)

see my post ref gen 4 Haldex

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1365465&start=15

If it helps.

Kind Regards


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Hi Dieseljuice, thanks for the heads-up. I had read that post last year. This topic is essentially a duplicate of that. I'm not debating whether the filter can be or should be changed. From all the researching on here I know it can be and that's my next course of action. I suppose I'm highlighting the lack of enthusiasm or ability from VAG specialists around the Midlands. I'm not saying they are all the same but the four I've contacted seem to copy Audi's ethos and not bend the rules. Hopefully will have better luck on Friday.


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## Lyons (May 12, 2010)

Any developments?


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

Lyons said:


> Any developments?


Its Thursday lol, hes going on Friday to see another "specialist".


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## Lyons (May 12, 2010)

Ah, hadn't noticed that.


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## Dieseljuice (Oct 5, 2015)

I'd not bother spending the time or fuel chasing VAG as they will not want to get involved fitting someone else's parts in case of any claim. I suggest do it yourself or an independent garage are the only options.

My 2p worth in case it helps!

I'm surprised a VAG independent does not know or want to do this if those are the specialist garages you have spoken to.
I believe (may be wrong) but the haldex unit is used by many 4WD manufacturers like the normal VAG marques, Ford, Volvo that I've read about so far...so maybe one of those independents can do the job.


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Evening all. Had an email back from one specialist who said they don't normally change the Gen4, cannot get hold of the filter, however they are willing to fit as long as I supply. Called them today to see if they wanted me to pop it to have a look underneath first but they stated they didn't need to. They said buy the filter and book it in and they would change filter at the same time as Haldex oil change. I'm not holding my breath yet but it's my only option. If successful I'll update the thread and provide the name, may help others who are in around the Midlands.

Hopefully get something booked towards end of next week.


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## qooqiiu (Oct 12, 2007)

Don't forget to ask how they get the filter out.

This is the only potential hurdle I can see. Il give it a go when I'm off next. A month to wait!


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## Dieseljuice (Oct 5, 2015)

I agree - getting the filter out is the only issue.

I googled a few recommendations but none felt right to me..turn on ignition to get pump to push it out...recipe for damage I think. Nor was the idea of drilling a self tapper into the filter wall and to lever it out.

The self tapper seemed the best bet and when I got the new filter I could examine the small boss/tube moulded as part of the filter wall and found a self tapping screw that could easily with a screwdriver be screwed into this boss/tube without the need to penetrate the filter wall. This was easy to do to the old filter and I used a small crow bar/nail remover to carefully prise it out very easily..just be ready for the oil that follows.

So a bit of caution and this is an easy job.

Maybe print out some pictures and offer them to the garage if you have a good rapport with the mechanic maybe citing "I was going to do this myself but was not really confident enough to do it" or something like that.

Hope this helps.


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Thanks qooqiiu / Dieseljuice. I can see both points and I'm in two minds on this one. Do I go in with the printed guide posted earlier in this thread as a helping hand or, do I go in with a naive impression and ask them how they got the filter out? I could ask for the old filter but how am I going to know its the old filter. Silly really. Other than asking them if I can watch them take the filter out which I doubt they would agree to.

Dieseljuice, when you say "just be ready for the oil that follows". If the garage are doing a haldex oil change at the same time, and they've drained the system prior to taking the filter out is there a lot of oil still left around the filter?


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## C00P5TT5 (Jul 10, 2016)

Or just accept the fact it doesn't need changing. The post from last year was mine and I know what position your in, you want to do the best for the car and your wallet but I still beg to ask..... Does it need replacing. It sounds like replacing it may cause more trouble than not.

And let's put things in perspective, how many haldex gen 4 (i think that's what it is) systems have failed on purely the filter only?


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## C00P5TT5 (Jul 10, 2016)

Do we have any members that have put a load of miles on a quattro and never changed the haldex filter?

Please speak up


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

C00P5TT5 said:


> Or just accept the fact it doesn't need changing. The post from last year was mine and I know what position your in, you want to do the best for the car and your wallet but I still beg to ask..... Does it need replacing. It sounds like replacing it may cause more trouble than not.
> 
> And let's put things in perspective, how many haldex gen 4 (i think that's what it is) systems have failed on purely the filter only?


Its a massive problem, haldex doesnt fail the pump does, hundreds have been done by Matt at Autofault finder, so yes it does need doing! If you change oil every couple of years it can prolong the filter being clogged up, but in the end it will get full of crap.


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## bhoy78 (Oct 30, 2014)

There have been a lot of members who have had pump failure which I guess is likely due to the filter being clogged. Pretty sure there will be thousands of cars that have had no issues despite never having the haldex filter changed.

The master tech at my local dealership told me he has seen it happen numerous times. I have never had pump failure though. Matt at autofaultfinder tells me he sees it all the time of audi/golfs etc. A search on the net shows pump failure happens across the vag range.

You guys are worrying to much, if you want it changed get in the car and drive to awesome or the TT shop or do it yourself. If you don't want it changed just get audi to change the haldex oil and don't worry about it, like 99% of the audi drivers on the road.

I agree with Danny though if the cars a keeper get it done, worrying about driving a few miles I drove down from Scotland :lol:


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## C00P5TT5 (Jul 10, 2016)

Not disbelieve you danny, I want to get to the bottom of this as many do, but what crap are you referring to if the oil is changed when it should be?


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## C00P5TT5 (Jul 10, 2016)

I still don't get it and apologies it may be me being thick, but if the oil is changed what is clogging it up? Is it not a sealed unit? So other than oil what is passing through it?

I agree we worry too much, but I want my tt to last and if that means changing the filter I will, even if audi say it doesn't need it


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## C00P5TT5 (Jul 10, 2016)

So is it pump failure rather than filter.... That would make more sense


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## bhoy78 (Oct 30, 2014)

Oil breaks down over time and filters get clogged with contaminants, when the filter gets bunged up it burns out the pump. At least that is my understanding of it.

I don't know if Danny went to auto fault finder or if he got his parts mail order but when I was there he showed me stacks of haldex units both gen 2 and gen 4. Gen 2 are apparently harder to fix where 99% of the time a gen 4 unit can be saved.


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## C00P5TT5 (Jul 10, 2016)

Good to know, so what sort of millage are we saying that the haldex filter needs replacing at, seen as it's not in the book?


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## C00P5TT5 (Jul 10, 2016)

Surely we can't say at haldex oil intervals every time?


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## bhoy78 (Oct 30, 2014)

No idea but Matt told me he is seeing a lot of failures around the 50k mark. Obviously change it when you do the haldex oil. Not everyone gets pump failure but it is the main fault that's associated with haldex problems


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## bhoy78 (Oct 30, 2014)

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/ha ... -s3.98497/

Strangely the s3 guys quote a filter change on their cars. That was just the first link I found and may related to gen 2 units but why would audi have a part number for there filter and not ours


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## C00P5TT5 (Jul 10, 2016)

Great, mines done 47k had the haldex service done at 46.5 by audi and after a lot of debate and drawings being presented to me I left without it being changed.


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

bhoy78, you drove from Scotland to Awesome in Manchester to get the haldex filter changed?! I've really got no excuse doing the 150 mile round trip then  Yes, to me, I treat all my cars as keepers, even if I chop it in 18 months time.

I think some of us do worry unnecessarily, I'm the first to admit that. I partly agree with C00P5TT5 and half of me thinks I'll just go and get the oil change done and leave it be. I'm concerned that by getting the filter changed by a garage that don't have experience in changing Gen4 filters I'll actually be giving myself more grief. I just get the suspicion that if it did go pear shaped the garage may just step back from the situation. However on the other hand I feel it is a good idea to get the filter changed, regardless of Audi's recommendation, prolonging the life of the haldex pump and unit.


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## C00P5TT5 (Jul 10, 2016)

This is it, the message always changes. Seen it with the cambelt change intervals. I wish we could get a audi person to speak up and be honest does that bloody filter need changing or not....and if it does f##kin sell it to me!

Sorry for getting stressed, but audi pride themselves on the quattro...and here we are


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## bhoy78 (Oct 30, 2014)

Have a look at this mate


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Completely agree. As previously mentioned I've spoken to three separate members of Audi including their U.K. customer service team. All of them said to get the filter changed. Yet when I dropped the car off I get "No we don't change the filter on the later models". Doesn't bother them what the customer wants and the fact we are willing to pay for it. I Image when the pump goes south they can't wait for the to pass on the big repair bill. Same with the 'specialists'. Most claim they have 'X' amount of combined years knowledge, yet when you ask them to do something that doesn't seem to be too taxing they get all 'Audi' and follow Audi's schedule. Anyway, apologies for ranting. Before I commit to the 'specialist' I'll do a little more homework.

And if anyone is willing to earn some extra pocket money and change the filter please give me a shout


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## bhoy78 (Oct 30, 2014)

Jump to 9 mins on that link, around 10 mins in he cuts open his old filter and shows you the insides


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

C00P5TT5 said:


> This is it, the message always changes. Seen it with the cambelt change intervals. I wish we could get a audi person to speak up and be honest does that bloody filter need changing or not....and if it does f##kin sell it to me!
> 
> Sorry for getting stressed, but audi pride themselves on the quattro...and here we are


The filter needs changing just like any filter its design is to catch crap, after time it builds up and blocks up and puts more strain on the pump. The pump gives up and you get the error codes and no 4WD. The filter is £50 and easy to fit so no real need for concern it can be changed every few years for me. The reason more oil changes can help is fresh oil has less crap in it hence the filter takes longer to gunk up in very basic terms.

You can see by the parts listed earlier in the thread the filter is 2 bolts and slides out, yes its fiddly but if a mechanic cant/wont do it then they dont deserve to be called a mechanic! never mind a specialist.

Why do you need Audi to accept this/ shout about it, or do it? There is a complete haldex specialist selling all the parts, pump, filter and oil for very good prices, and hes willing to share his vast knowledge. No one should be taking their car to Audi for anything other than maybe servicing as their prices are horrendous!


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## C00P5TT5 (Jul 10, 2016)

What other filter on the car cost near £50?


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## bhoy78 (Oct 30, 2014)

£50 filter is better than a £600 pump


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## qooqiiu (Oct 12, 2007)

That's assuming they drain before taking the filter out. If they drain first there will be very little spillage. It's at the top of the unit so only what's in and around the the filter itself. Have they actually changed one before at all??

If they drain the oil first and then have trouble removing the filter the two options of pressurising it out from within would be a non starter because there is no oil in the unit??


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## qooqiiu (Oct 12, 2007)

The TT filter is slightly different to the one in that video. It has a larger plastic piece with two sealing rubber rings making it (I would image) harder to get out.


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## Dieseljuice (Oct 5, 2015)

Hi ScoTTS....I mentioned on my contribution to post viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1365465&start=15 that even after draining the Haldex oil still came out of filter when I removed it and so the need to also top up after refilling and a short run to prime Haldex after filling.

I measured the 750ml required to fill the Haldex as I explained.

I just did my filter because it's easy and peace of mind regardless of what Audi cite.

Just to add. I believe there is no need to drive it just start engine to prime and fill filter then you can top up after that. I just read somewhere that a short drive to heat the oil to a temperature before topping up was required. Hence I did a short run of a mile I guess.


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

C00P5TT5 said:


> What other filter on the car cost near £50?


If you dont want to change yours then dont you seem very negative to the procedure and yet are still on the thread??, the filter itself is also around £38, its £50 with the fitting kit if you have a problem paying £50 for a part for an Audi part I suggest that you buy another car, its got to be one of the cheapest replacement parts on the car..........

Im going to leave the thread now, the information is posted several times from several people with experience of it.


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Evening Danny / C00P5TT5,

Let's calm down, we've all had a drink  There is no tone in text so we are all probably the next step ahead. Anyway, it would be worth stopping around for this thread, there may be a VIP commenting in the next few days :wink:


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## HaldexMatt (Mar 3, 2017)

Hello Audi TT Forum,

This discussion has been brought to my attention by Scott, I am the aforementioned Matt.

This is just a quick post to say over the weekend I will compile a post for this forum focused entirely on the VAG Generation 4 Haldex system.

I will include diagrams, photos, part numbers, fault codes, various causes of failure, diagnostic trouble shooting information, "how to's" for fitting and removing components, and various other back ground information. I have photos of failed parts, some poor videos of removing filters, photos of failed ECU's and other random snippets I have compiled over the last 4 years.

Please be patient, it will take me many hours to compile this technical guide. And I hope it to be of great use to not just TT owners, but also owners of VW Golf R, Tiguan, Transporters, Audi A3, S3 and the Skoda and Seat owners too. If I died next week I would take alot of very useful knowledge and experience with me. I also feel that is would not only be useful to owners of these vehicles, but also the garages, specialists, dealers and technicians who work on them.

Kind regards,

Matt


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

"If You Build It, He Will Come"


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## C00P5TT5 (Jul 10, 2016)

Hallelujah!!!!

Thanks Matt and Scott this stuff that comes through may help with this age old argument.

And, Danny1 no beef from me, just a frustrating topic....buy another car, I think not. I love me tt as much as you probably do.

Spread the love and welcome our Haldex king.

Matt numbers, models, years what ever you can supply would be awesome.

I'd also like your opinion on why audi take the stance that it doesn't need replacing


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## C00P5TT5 (Jul 10, 2016)

I can't wait to go back to audi with this, I spent over an hour arguing with the suit when I had the haldex service, but when he produced schematics of the unit... I bowed down.

I hope he still works there.


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## qooqiiu (Oct 12, 2007)

Excellent development. There's no hand clap emoji or I'd use one. 
[smiley=cheers.gif]


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## bhoy78 (Oct 30, 2014)

Welcome Matt, your guide will be really useful. Start it as a fresh post and I am sure Brittan will add it to the knowledge base 8)


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## HaldexMatt (Mar 3, 2017)

With regards the corporate policy of VW Audi Group:-

Exactly the same filter cartridge is fitted into Volvo, Ford, Land Rover, Vauxhal and other Gen 4 Haldex systems, they do have a different fitting kit, but the actual filter cartridge itself is *EXACTLY* the same. Other manufactures sell them as a part, and specify service intervals. VW Audi Groups are sprinkled with some kind of magic dust which makes them last forever..... well hopefully long enough to get the car past the warranty stage I feel. Faulty Gen 4 Haldex fitted Ford Kuga owners are hitting the same brick wall, the dealerships really have no idea where to start, and have no support from above.

VAG's policy of the filter being "fitted for life" / "non serviceable component" is corporate madness, negligence, or has an ulterior motive. Maybe a mix of all three.

Make of it what you wish. Trying to re-educate the dealership - that isn't going to happen from below. Some of what I tell you will directly contradict to what you are told by VW / Audi, and even many of the independent VAG specialist who often employ ex dealer techs. Hopefully as time goes on, more and more VW/Audi specialists will catch onto this Haldex game, but at the same time the garage industry is often less than ideal. I have done a lot of garage contract work over the last few years and it blows my mind what goes on at times, I contract out occasionally now to two different branded automotive dealerships and I find incorrect in house wiring diagrams and technical information scarily often, when you've spent the last three house testing something according to the wiring diagram, and you can't make sense of the test data, only to prove the diagram is wrong you wonder who actually designs this stuff. Human beings!

You are only ever talking to a technician, a service manager, a parts manager, a store manager etc etc, they didn't develop this stuff, nor do they reverse engineer it, they do their job to one standard or another. If it isn't on ELSAWIN - VAG's in house workshop manual system, they aren't going to do it. And if the part isn't on ETKA - VAG's in house parts diagram/ordering system, they don't know it exists, nor can they order it or supply it. They operate a corporate machine, a little insignificant cog in a much larger system.

I had a string of emails about 2 years ago with someone quite high up at TPS over purchasing these filters. They requested emails of clogged filters etc. I was passed up and up the chain, with more and more people getting CC'd into the email. After a while it boiled down to nothing. Like it hit a brick wall, their loss.

There is no aftermarket manufacturer for filters, pump or oil to my knowledge. There is only 1 factory which makes all of these automotive Haldex components in hungary, and they make them for all the various car manufactures which use the Haldex branded systems. You can buy a bottle of oil from Volvo, Ford, VAG, Landrover or Vauxhall - they all have very different price tags, a different branded label, but the same blow moulded plastic bottles get filled with exactly the same fluid on the same bottle packing line in Hungary, I have examples of a few brands of oil here in front of me, and after many long conversations with a supplier who has been to the Hungary plant many times I have found out all sorts of strange things.

For example VW Haldex oil. Dealer will sell you:-

G 055 175 A2 ---- 1 Ltre - White bottle - This is for Gen 2 Systems, not suitable for Gen 4 Systems
G 060 175 A2 ---- 850ml - Silver Bottle - This is for Gen 4 Systems, but reverse compatible with Gen 2 systems

Thing is, they are exactly the same fluid, and exactly the same bottle moulding, they have just changed the bottle colour and skimped on how much they fill the bottle to increase their profit margin. You can put either in Gen 2 or 4, but ETKA the parts catalogue says no.

Clear as mud?


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## HaldexMatt (Mar 3, 2017)

Writing this stuff out is a massive job [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## C00P5TT5 (Jul 10, 2016)

Stick with it fella you could possibly be the first to once and for all solve this never ending debate.... Think of all the quattro's you'd be saving!


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## rajanm1 (Feb 1, 2014)

HaldexMatt said:


> Writing this stuff out is a massive job [smiley=bigcry.gif]


We all really appreciate it though mate!


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## HaldexMatt (Mar 3, 2017)

Saying I would write this stuff up is turning into one of those things I wish I hadn't said :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

Hi Matt,

Everyone appreciates the effort. Would it be worth putting together a light version similar to the Gen2 replacement in the knowledge base? If you're anything like me and need to write the occasional SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) it is easy to get carried away and really get into the detail!!

Cheers


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## HaldexMatt (Mar 3, 2017)

2776 words over 6 pages, 16 images and 1 video [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## bhoy78 (Oct 30, 2014)

Just like being back at school  thanks for taking the time to do it


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## C00P5TT5 (Jul 10, 2016)

When will you post it?


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## HaldexMatt (Mar 3, 2017)

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1496577


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## Lyons (May 12, 2010)

Matt, do the drain and fill bolts need changed on a Gen2?

Does the kit come with the seal too?


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

So, thought I'd finish off the thread. I finally managed to get a specialist to change the Haldex filter. Big thanks goes out to.....Midland VW in Cannock. Great bunch of guys and certainly know their stuff. I arrived at 8:30 and within 30 minutes the front was full of VW's, Audis and Seats with an awesome new shape RS4 Avant that woke up the waiting area on start-up. Haldex oil change and filter supplied by myself done and dusted within an hour. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Number has now been added to my phone book.

Big thanks to Matt at Auto Fault Finder also. Taking the time out to explain and give advice certainly helped. Matt also supplied the Gen4 filter kit. If anyone is interested in changing the filter I would highly recommend purchasing the kit from Auto Fault Finder. I ordered late last Friday morning and the kit was delivered Saturday morning!

Last but not least thanks to all who have contributed to the thread. Let's hope there are a few more miles of trouble free motoring ahead....


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## Sideshow (Jan 4, 2017)

Good to hear you got this all sorted out Scott. This thread has got me thinking about doing the filter on mine, although its only just recently had a Haldex oil change...I'd still like to get the filter done for peace of mind. Even with Matt's superb post explaining in great depths of how the filter can be changed I'm not mechanically minded in the slightest so the problem would be finding a local independent specialist garage to carry out the work. That might just prove fairly difficult based on the trouble you had. How many miles had that filter above seen?


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## C00P5TT5 (Jul 10, 2016)

Was going to ask the same question as I'm in the same position


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## ScoTTS... (Apr 16, 2016)

If going on the basis that the filter had never been changed, and I doubt it had been as has almost full Audi service history, the filter had done 55.4k miles.

Sideshow, completely agree, sometimes awkward to get an indie or specialist to carry out the work if they've never done it before and follow Audi's service ethos. My only recommendation is to exhaust as many Audi/VW 'specialists' as you can first then work in the local indies. On speaking to the garage yesterday they said the process was actually quite simple and used Matts method with VCDS to 'pop' the filter bung out.


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