# A5 - 2.7 TDi, 3.0 TDi or 2.0T..?



## Janitor

What's the current train of thought here people..?

The A5 has sneakily grabbed my attention lately - don't really know why, but it has. I'm currently just trying to weigh up the models

The 2.7 TDi is a tidy bit of kit, but not as impressive at the V6 3.0 TDi with quattro yes..? Or no..?

Or is the new 2.0T now the one to have..? The cheaper cost of fuel and initial purchase kinda stacks up against the D versions, but the D economy surely has to come into the equation..?

Oddly enough, I'd not actually entertain a TTD at all (even if I can appreciate its purpose), but right now, the Diesel version of the A5 is pretty much the only one I'd consider - whether that's the nature / character of the car being best suited or what I'm not sure. I wish I could put a finger on it

The S5 doesn't interest me either worryingly enough. A 4.2 V8 just doesn't seem to register when very similar performance is coming from the V6 3.0 TDi - albeit without the soundtrack

I'm not looking to start a riot with any of this - just wondering what people's thoughts are either way..?


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## SBJ

I came from owning a front wheel drive TT, so was wondering how much difference the Quattro would make. Simple answer is I'd have to think hard before going back to a normal 2 wheel drive car, it's very good indeed.

The v6 3.0TDI Quattro Sport, for me was the best balance for performance and economy. The engine which has immense pulling power (500Nm of torque) and isn't that far off the S5 times. Drive it sensibly and it will return 40+mpg (wife saw 53mpg). Drive it hard and it will dip to low 30's high 20's.

It's a performance diesel primarily and I wanted lots of performance which it delivers. Official figures are 5.9 to 100 km/h, and I've seen the top speed in Germany (indicated 163mph) which is limited to 155. I drove 2500 miles the other month to Austria and averaged 34mpg which was very good considering I was running at 140 mph at times in Germany and did 3 mountain passes (lots of hairpins to test the Quattro and engine torque). I dread to think what the S5 would have managed.

I suggest you take a look at www.a5oc.com for all the debates on the 2.7 engine and if you want higher MPG, it could be the one for you.

Simon


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## Hilly10

As said if performance is your bag go for the 3.0 ltr I am more then satisfied with my 2.7 as I tour quite a lot so mpg is more so for me, but dont dismiss the 2.7 as a slouch in sport through the paddles it shifts quite well :wink:


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## Wallsendmag

So ,no new TT but an A5 ?


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## Janitor

Thanks Simon - that has kind confirmed my initial thoughts. Blend of performance and return is more my scene as opposed to outright economy

Do you have 19's with the Sport version..?

Paul - yes mate, I can see exactly where you're coming from and our chat about yours on Thursday certainly underlined that it's the perfect vehicle for your requirements

Mags - yes, that's about right. The TTS is imminent, but I'm not certain on taking it. The closer it gets the harder it's becoming to resist though!

The A5 is perhaps a tad more justifiable in as much as it offer a little more space in the back for my just turned teenage lad as well as being a substitute for the wife's car - effectively reducing 3 down to 2. I would want to do that in the case of the TTS

So it's starting to become a question of needs and even I hate to say, sensibility. I think discretion in trying to clarify that in my own mind before taking the TTS (or not) is the better part of valour


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## Wallsendmag

Janitor said:


> Thanks Simon - that has kind confirmed my initial thoughts. Blend of performance and return is more my scene as opposed to outright economy
> 
> Do you have 19's with the Sport version..?
> 
> Paul - yes mate, I can see exactly where you're coming from and our chat about yours on Thursday certainly underlined that it's the perfect vehicle for your requirements
> 
> Mags - yes, that's about right. The TTS is imminent, but I'm not certain on taking it. The closer it gets the harder it's becoming to resist though!
> 
> The A5 is perhaps a tad more justifiable in as much as it offer a little more space in the back for my just turned teenage lad as well as being a substitute for the wife's car - effectively reducing 3 down to 2. I would want to do that in the case of the TTS
> 
> So it's starting to become a question of needs and even I hate to say, sensibility. I think discretion in trying to clarify that in my own mind before taking the TTS (or not) is the better part of valour


Will they not just transfer the deposit to the A5?


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## Wondermikie

The 2.7 only comes with the multitronic 'box which would put me right off, I hate CVT transmissions. DSG or traditional torque converter 'box every time for me.


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## SBJ

Janitor said:


> Thanks Simon - that has kind confirmed my initial thoughts. Blend of performance and return is more my scene as opposed to outright economy
> 
> Do you have 19's with the Sport version..?


Yes, I went for the Sport edition which gives you:
- sports seats
- 2cm drop + stiffer spring/dampers
- 19" Y-spoke alloys

Think the rest of the spec is in my sig below...

Simon


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## Janitor

wallsendmag said:


> Will they not just transfer the deposit to the A5?


Yes Mags, Iâ€™m sure the Dealer would swap the deposit to another carâ€¦ but the TTS allocation I picked up is in Manchester and therefore not exactly â€˜localâ€™. Of course that makes no difference as I could still place an order through them, but it makes it tricky when taking up Dealerâ€™s time more locally with test drives etc. I could simply remain hard-nosed about that, but I donâ€™t like to mess people about


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## Janitor

Wondermikie said:


> The 2.7 only comes with the multitronic 'box which would put me right off, I hate CVT transmissions. DSG or traditional torque converter 'box every time for me.


A very good point well made Mike - that would rule it out for me too


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## Janitor

SBJ said:


> Yes, I went for the Sport edition which gives you:
> - sports seats
> - 2cm drop + stiffer spring/dampers
> - 19" Y-spoke alloys


How would you describe the ride with 19's on Sports Suspension Simon..? I know on the TT, this would have been a little too crashy on the A and B road heaven in Devon, so would be a little concerned that this could also be the case on the A5 Sport

Did you test drive the Standard and Sport versions to ascertain the differences or was it simply that the Sport Package appealed to you more?


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## Janitor

SBJ said:


> I suggest you take a look at www.a5oc.com


Oh and thanks for the link fella - a whole other world to work through!


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## SBJ

Janitor said:


> SBJ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest you take a look at www.a5oc.com
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and thanks for the link fella - a whole other world to work through!
Click to expand...

No, I ordered my A5 blind a day after they opened the order books, so no test drive!

Sports suspension isn't crashy in my opinion on 19"s.


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## Wondermikie

Janitor said:


> Wondermikie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 2.7 only comes with the multitronic 'box which would put me right off, I hate CVT transmissions. DSG or traditional torque converter 'box every time for me.
> 
> 
> 
> A very good point well made Mike - that would rule it out for me too
Click to expand...

So it looks like the 3.0 then 

I had the Autocar road test for the 3.0 and it was very fast, I think I may have chucked it out now, but if not I'll dig it out for you. Some info here though -

0-60 in 6.4
0-100 in 16.6
30-70 5.9

Pretty much on a par with your old 2.0T mk2, although I'd reckon on the fuel consumption being around the same.


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## jbell

Janitor

You need to consider the mileage you do before buying a diesel, they are only really a better financially if you do over 20k per year due to the higher purchase, fuel and servicing costs.

The new 2.0T looks like a great option and is well specced IMO


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## Janitor

Thanks that jbell, good input fella 

You say 20k - what is that calculated on? I'd have though that a better return of miles to the gallon starts from the first mile..?

Ok, Diesel is more costly per unit than petrol at the moment (12% when considering Unleaded at Â£1.19 and Diesel at Â£1.33), but the return on average driving could quite easily be 25% - 30% better (assuming circa 30mpg Unleaded and 40mpg Diesel). That still seems to stack up to me

Does it come down to servicing costs then..? I can't quite see 20k miles being done per year, but it could well head towards 15k

The 2.0T does indeed sound nice, but Iâ€™ve just come from there and I donâ€™t think it will be anything like as well suited to the heavier A5 than it is the TT. Add to the equation 500Nm of torque vs 350Nm and the Diesel really appeals as my driving style which is more swift and easy as opposed to rapid and revvy!

One strange oddity is clear though â€" it appears Iâ€™d never personally consider a Diesel in a TT, but am not that hot on anything other than Diesel for an A5 :?

Edit: I've just re-read your point about higher purchase cost too... Yes, that is a factor of course but my view is that you choose to buy into that at the start and it doesn't come into the ongoing equation

I know in reality it does of course, but again, it's about the package which appeals the most at the outset for me


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## jbell

Janitor said:


> Thanks that jbell, good input fella
> 
> You say 20k - what is that calculated on? I'd have though that a better return of miles to the gallon starts from the first mile..?


I have done loads of calcs to work out the best option for people when choosing cars, the general consensus is <20k Petrol and 20k> Diesel, this also depends on the type of driving you are doing, for example if you do mainly motorway miles then the Diesel is the best option full stop.



Janitor said:


> Ok, Diesel is more costly per unit than petrol at the moment (12% when considering Unleaded at Â£1.19 and Diesel at Â£1.33), but the return on average driving could quite easily be 25% - 30% better (assuming circa 30mpg Unleaded and 40mpg Diesel). That still seems to stack up to me
> 
> Does it come down to servicing costs then..? I can't quite see 20k miles being done per year, but it could well head towards 15k


Depends how you drive, never take any notice of the manufacturers figures. Some larger Diesels are quite thirsty (335D, 535D) so this will offset the benefits. Diesel servicing costs are usually higher that Petrol.



Janitor said:


> The 2.0T does indeed sound nice, but Iâ€™ve just come from there and I donâ€™t think it will be anything like as well suited to the heavier A5 than it is the TT. Add to the equation 500Nm of torque vs 350Nm and the Diesel really appeals as my driving style which is more swift and easy as opposed to rapid and revvy!


I think you hit the nail on the head with the engines suitability, the Torque of the Diesel will be good in the A5 although a quick re-map will sort some of that out, the Petrol is lighter than the Diesel as it is FWD and the engine is lighter.



Janitor said:


> One strange oddity is clear though â€" it appears Iâ€™d never personally consider a Diesel in a TT, but am not that hot on anything other than Diesel for an A5 :?


Don't mind really, the TTDi is a good option and I would have a S5 as I only really do 5k per year.



Janitor said:


> Edit: I've just re-read your point about higher purchase cost too... Yes, that is a factor of course but my view is that you choose to buy into that at the start and it doesn't come into the ongoing equation
> 
> I know in reality it does of course, but again, it's about the package which appeals the most at the outset for me


If the Diesel appeals more then go for that but test both first and remember to zero the trip and see what the real world figures are


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## jbell

Janitor said:


> Thanks that jbell, good input fella
> 
> You say 20k - what is that calculated on? I'd have though that a better return of miles to the gallon starts from the first mile..?


I have done loads of calcs to work out the best option for people when choosing cars, the general consensus is <20k Petrol and 20k> Diesel, this also depends on the type of driving you are doing, for example if you do mainly motorway miles then the Diesel is the best option full stop.



Janitor said:


> Ok, Diesel is more costly per unit than petrol at the moment (12% when considering Unleaded at Â£1.19 and Diesel at Â£1.33), but the return on average driving could quite easily be 25% - 30% better (assuming circa 30mpg Unleaded and 40mpg Diesel). That still seems to stack up to me
> 
> Does it come down to servicing costs then..? I can't quite see 20k miles being done per year, but it could well head towards 15k


Depends how you drive, never take any notice of the manufacturers figures. Some larger Diesels are quite thirsty (335D, 535D) so this will offset the benefits. Diesel servicing costs are usually higher that Petrol.



Janitor said:


> The 2.0T does indeed sound nice, but Iâ€™ve just come from there and I donâ€™t think it will be anything like as well suited to the heavier A5 than it is the TT. Add to the equation 500Nm of torque vs 350Nm and the Diesel really appeals as my driving style which is more swift and easy as opposed to rapid and revvy!


I think you hit the nail on the head with the engines suitability, the Torque of the Diesel will be good in the A5 although a quick re-map will sort some of that out, the Petrol is lighter than the Diesel as it is FWD and the engine is lighter.



Janitor said:


> One strange oddity is clear though â€" it appears Iâ€™d never personally consider a Diesel in a TT, but am not that hot on anything other than Diesel for an A5 :?


Don't mind really, the TTDi is a good option and I would have a S5 as I only really do 5k per year.



Janitor said:


> Edit: I've just re-read your point about higher purchase cost too... Yes, that is a factor of course but my view is that you choose to buy into that at the start and it doesn't come into the ongoing equation
> 
> I know in reality it does of course, but again, it's about the package which appeals the most at the outset for me


If the Diesel appeals more then go for that but test both first and remember to zero the trip and see what the real world figures are


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## Hilly10

The 3.0 diesel over the 3.2 petrol cost wise is 3.0tdi Â£55 more


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## SBJ

Don't believe all the press figures (6.4?!) as 'we' (A5 forum) have seen lower 60 sprint times than published for standard cars. Either way 5.7,5.9, 6.4 is quick and it's about how it delivers the power and not a stop watch race. All I know is it's bloody quick dry or wet and 500nm is a very nice feeling when you floor it at any speed!

Servicing is every 20k.


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## Janitor

Hilly10 said:


> The 3.0 diesel over the 3.2 petrol cost wise is 3.0tdi Â£55 more


It's Â£150 in the brochure Hilly, but even still, that is surprising

The 2.0T quattro is about Â£3.5k less though - also has 150 fewer of them there torquey things too though :?

Humm, the plot it doth thicken further!


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## Janitor

SBJ said:


> Either way 5.7, 5.9, 6.4 is quick and it's about how it delivers the power and not a stop watch race. All I know is it's bloody quick dry or wet and 500nm is a very nice feeling when you floor it at any speed!


True fella and I've really never been into splitting seconds on 0-60. BUT, the fact that all that torque shifts you very firmly to 60 a second quicker than the 2.0T when you're only dealing with half a dozen of them in the first place is hard to ignore

I understand that it's the in gear pace where it really shows though yes..?


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## Janitor

jbell said:


> I have done loads of calcs to work out the best option for people when choosing cars, the general consensus is <20k Petrol and 20k> Diesel, this also depends on the type of driving you are doing, for example if you do mainly motorway miles then the Diesel is the best option full stop.


Mainly A & B road with the occasional stretch here and there for me â€" not looking at it as a motorway muncher, I just feel the car is best suited to the 3.0TDi for some strange reason :?



jbell said:


> Depends how you drive, never take any notice of the manufacturers figures. Some larger Diesels are quite thirsty (335D, 535D) so this will offset the benefits. Diesel servicing costs are usually higher that Petrol.


No doubt, but Iâ€™m not a loon â€" just like to cruise enthusiastically if that makes any sense!?!?! The chaps on a5oc.com seem to be pretty pleased with their return



jbell said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head with the engines suitability, the Torque of the Diesel will be good in the A5 although a quick re-map will sort some of that out, the Petrol is lighter than the Diesel as it is FWD and the engine is lighter.


Humm, I wonder what the weight differential is between 2.0T quattro and the 3.0TDi..?

Ah ha, just found that out â€" 2.0T quattro at 1490kg vs. Sport 3.0TDi 1610kg unladen. Thatâ€™s 5 bags of cementâ€¦ hummâ€¦



jbell said:


> Don't mind really, the TTDi is a good option and I would have a S5 as I only really do 5k per year.


Yep, that makes sense. Worryingly enough though, I really, really have zero interest in a 4.2 V8 :? Whether thatâ€™s me getting old or me being brainwashed by the eco-movement I actually shudder to think, but itâ€™s not appealing to me in the slightest



jbell said:


> If the Diesel appeals more then go for that but test both first and remember to zero the trip and see what the real world figures are


Got a Sport 3.0TDi for the afternoon on Thursday, so I will endeavour to remember that tip â€" nice one 

Great feedback mate, much appreciated


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## RK07

Just to confuse a little further, I collected an A5 1.8T from a customer on Saturday when I returned his car to him and over a 90 mile drive achieved 40.3mpg driving at a good speed. Really impressed and very comfortable cruiser. As to whether it had sufficient power only you can answer that but I was impressed none the less with the overall package.


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## jbell

Janitor said:


> jbell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you hit the nail on the head with the engines suitability, the Torque of the Diesel will be good in the A5 although a quick re-map will sort some of that out, the Petrol is lighter than the Diesel as it is FWD and the engine is lighter.
> 
> 
> 
> Humm, I wonder what the weight differential is between 2.0T quattro and the 3.0TDi..?
> 
> Ah ha, just found that out â€" 2.0T quattro at 1490kg vs. Sport 3.0TDi 1610kg unladen. Thatâ€™s 5 bags of cementâ€¦ hummâ€¦
Click to expand...

So the 2.0T FWD will be lighter still, probably 50kg so that totals 170kg lighter which is enough to make a massive difference in performance and economy.



Janitor said:


> jbell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't mind really, the TTDi is a good option and I would have a S5 as I only really do 5k per year.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, that makes sense. Worryingly enough though, I really, really have zero interest in a 4.2 V8 :? Whether thatâ€™s me getting old or * me being brainwashed by the eco-movement I actually shudder to think*, but itâ€™s not appealing to me in the slightest
Click to expand...

I hope you are not turning into a hippy :lol: :wink:


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## Janitor

RK07 said:


> Just to confuse a little further, I collected an A5 1.8T from a customer on Saturday when I returned his car to him and over a 90 mile drive achieved 40.3mpg driving at a good speed. Really impressed and very comfortable cruiser. As to whether it had sufficient power only you can answer that but I was impressed none the less with the overall package.


Thatâ€™s a good recommendation, thanks for that. I know Hilly rates his 1.8T highly. I think Iâ€™d always be looking for that bit more though. Seems to bode well for the 2.0T as there is a significant difference:

1.8T (Manual) â€" 170PS â€" 250Nm â€" 169g/km â€" 0-60 8.4 â€" 1395kg
2.0T quattro (Manual) â€" 211PS â€" 350Nm â€" 173g/km â€" 0-60 6.5 â€" 1490kg

But then thereâ€™s alwaysâ€¦
3.0TDi quattro (Manual) â€" 240PS â€" 500Nm â€" 172g/km â€" 0-60 5.9 â€" 1610kg

It seems Audi have done a similar trick with the A5 as they have with the TT â€" ie, bringing out the â€˜one to haveâ€™ some way into the modelâ€™s existenceâ€¦


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## Janitor

jbell said:


> So the 2.0T FWD will be lighter still, probably 50kg so that totals 170kg lighter which is enough to make a massive difference in performance and economy


The FWD is indeed an additional 70kg lighter than the 2.0T quattro â€" so thatâ€™s a total of 190kgs lighter than the 3.0TDi quattro â€" thatâ€™s nearly 8 bags of cement!

However, I think quattro is definitely on the cardsâ€¦ so itâ€™s now a question of 2.0TFSi quattro or 3.0TDi quattro [smiley=juggle.gif]



jbell said:


> I hope you are not turning into a hippy :lol: :wink:


I seriously had better fookin not be! 

[smiley=hanged.gif]


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## jbell

Janitor said:


> jbell said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the 2.0T FWD will be lighter still, probably 50kg so that totals 170kg lighter which is enough to make a massive difference in performance and economy
> 
> 
> 
> The FWD is indeed an additional 70kg lighter than the 2.0T quattro â€" so thatâ€™s a total of *190kgs lighter than the 3.0TDi quattro â€" thatâ€™s nearly 8 bags of cement!*
Click to expand...

Thats a lot of weight 9 (2 of me infact  ), that will make massive differences in performance and economy.



Janitor said:


> However, I think quattro is definitely on the cardsâ€¦ so itâ€™s now a question of 2.0TFSi quattro or 3.0TDi quattro


Whats the price and spec differences?


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## Janitor

jbell said:


> Janitor said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, I think quattro is definitely on the cardsâ€¦ so itâ€™s now a question of 2.0TFSi quattro or 3.0TDi quattro
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the price and spec differences?
Click to expand...

Standard specs are the same across the board (S5 excluded), but the cost of some options is dependant on whether you spec the Sport Model (which when you get the â€˜essentialsâ€™ such as Sports Seats, 20mm lower suspension and a wheel upgrade makes sense at Â£700 less than the cost when specced separately)

OTR list prices:

1.8T â€" Â£26,535
2.0T FWD â€" Â£28,760
2.0T quattro â€" Â£30,285
3.0TDi quattro â€" Â£33,735

Sport 1.8T â€" Â£27,485
Sport 2.0T FWD â€" Â£29,710
Sport 2.0T quattro â€" Â£31,235
Sport 3.0TDi quattro â€" Â£34,685

Approx Â£3.5k intervals looking at that


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## jbell

Janitor said:


> jbell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Janitor said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, I think quattro is definitely on the cardsâ€¦ so itâ€™s now a question of 2.0TFSi quattro or 3.0TDi quattro
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the price and spec differences?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Standard specs are the same across the board (S5 excluded), but the cost of some options is dependant on whether you spec the Sport Model (which when you get the â€˜essentialsâ€™ such as Sports Seats, 20mm lower suspension and a wheel upgrade makes sense at Â£700 less than the cost when specced separately)
> 
> OTR list prices:
> 
> Sport 2.0T FWD â€" Â£29,710
> Sport 2.0T quattro â€" Â£31,235  + Â£1525
> Sport 3.0TDi quattro â€" Â£34,685  + Â£3450
> 
> Approx Â£3.5k intervals looking at that
Click to expand...

Tough choice between the 2.0 TQ and the 3.0 TDQ really, a remap will cost circa Â£500 on the 2.0 to bring the power levels up to more than the 3.0 TDI which would save Â£3k


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## Hilly10

Janitor I dont have the 1.8t mines the 2.7 TDI :wink:


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## SBJ

Someone's remapped their A5 to 300+ bhp and 600Nm  8)

I'd say you need to test drive the cars on your short list. Try not to get bogged down in numbers and just see which one you prefer in the flesh.

Remember to spec up the cars with the options you want and prepare to be shocked at the total. My A5 came to Â£42k with the toys on.


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## Janitor

Hilly10 said:


> Janitor I dont have the 1.8t mines the 2.7 TDI :wink:


Yeah I know :lol: That's been bugging me all afternoon as I knew I'd got it wrong :roll:

Apologies

(does that mean you were insulted..?)


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## Janitor

SBJ said:


> Someone's remapped their A5 to 300+ bhp and 600Nm  8)
> 
> I'd say you need to test drive the cars on your short list. Try not to get bogged down in numbers and just see which one you prefer in the flesh.
> 
> Remember to spec up the cars with the options you want and prepare to be shocked at the total. My A5 came to Â£42k with the toys on.


Sound advice of course fella and I am more into feel than figures in truth - just trying to get some homework done [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I've got the 3.0TDi lined up for Thursday afternoon, do any Dealers have the 2.0TFSi in yet..?

As for the spec running away with you... yes, I know that only too well after speccing a TT 2.0T and a TTS - but I am very disciplined when anywhere near the configurator now


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## Janitor

jbell said:


> Tough choice between the 2.0 TQ and the 3.0 TDQ really, a remap will cost circa Â£500 on the 2.0 to bring the power levels up to more than the 3.0 TDI which would save Â£3k


Yep, that's the choice mate. As for remap - not really my bag that one. Nothing wrong with those who like to do it of course, but the warranty situation on a car being paid for with my own money does concern a virgin like myself

I know it's a rarity that something big goes awry, but that Â£3k saving could soon swing +Â£3k the other way should the worst happen


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## r14n

I know where you could pick up a 3.0 Tdi sport in white with low miles............... :wink:

Ian


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## garyc

Small turbo petrol engines just don't work as well as bigger, more torquey diesels in big heavy cars like the A5. Residuals might reflect this and offset initial outlay.

- plus spend Â£500 remapping a 3.0tdi and a tuned petrol 2.0t wouldnt see which way you went.

For the kind of driving you describe a 3.0 tdiQ sounds perfect.

Havnt driven an A5 but drove a fwd 2.0Tfsi and 3.0tdi A6 back to back last year. I'd take the tdi anytime. the 2.0T is better suited to lighter cars - it struggled with the A6 weight, to rev as freely as it does in the Golf and TT, and one always had ones foot planted to keep momentum. The 3.0tdi, whilst it also doesnt rev, doesnt really have to - as it delivers more pull than the 2.0T does on full throttle, but on part throttle, thereby _feeling_ that much swifter and easy to drive.

5th and 6th gear pull on dual carriageway is where you will really notice it most. 500nm slays 350 nm in a heavy car. Absolute torque amount and spread advantage is most noticable trying to cleave a heft lump of steel at higher speeds and uphills and with cement bags on board.

The 2.0Tengine is a fine engine - eons better than the old 1.8T unit, but it sparkles more in Golf than heavy A6.


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## Janitor

Good thoughts there Gary, thanks for that

With regard to weight (assuming FWD Manual):

TT 2.0T (280Nm) weighs 1260kg
A5 2.0T (350Nm) is 1420kg

The TT certainly doesn't feel underpowered in that sense and the revisions for the A5 provides that additional torque which will help offset those additional 140kgs. A generalisation I know, but that tends to support the feeling that the 2.0T A5 would be a pretty lively car. Not the 500Nm pull of the TDi though that's for sure and as you know, I wholeheartedly agree about its character suiting my predominant driving style

You make an interesting point regarding residuals too. Crystal ball time I think but is Diesel in real danger of losing that edge now given its ever increasing cost eroding the 'perceived advantage'..?

Doing some costings, the 2.0T will roll out about Â£3,425 less than the TDi spec for spec... that's definitely a considerable amount


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## jbell

Janitor said:


> You make an interesting point regarding residuals too. Crystal ball time I think* but is Diesel in real danger of losing that edge now given its ever increasing cost eroding the 'perceived advantage'..?*


There lies the problem, Diesel is 15p per liter more than Petrol now on a 55 liter tank that is Â£8.25 (13%) extra per tank.


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## garyc

I think you need to consider more than just current diesel pump prices and economy, (although i believe that the current petrol/diesel price differential will erode - oil cos are taking short term profits, but that is another discussion) when comparing the two.

Diesels have a higher duty cycle and are capable of far higher mileages than their petrol equivs. They generally have lower servicing costs, are more reliable, components last longer and are therefore cheaper to run in long run. They are also still more desirable as used car propositions.

What would you rather buy (were you in the market) , a higher mileage petrol that you know has been working hard all its life to propel a heavy car, or a high mileage but relatively instressed bid tdi? Whicj oen is likely to need work sooner?

You may not claw back whole Â£3400 xetra initial outlay in increased residuals, but it's a fair bet to say that a subsequent owner would be happy to pay Â£2500 premium for the tdi variant.

As you say Crystal ball needed.


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## jbell

garyc said:


> Diesels have a higher duty cycle and are capable of far higher mileages than their petrol equivs. They generally have lower servicing costs, are more reliable, components last longer and are therefore cheaper to run in long run.


Not sure the "It will be OK at 100k" really matters, the fact is all cars are more reliable these days and capable of starship mileages so long as they are maintained properly, many Diesel cars have higher servicing costs than their petrol equivalent and have to be serviced more frequently. Diesel is a very unrefined (dirty) fuel in comparison to Petrol.

Audi have the same service intervals for Petrol and Diesel but the Diesel cars need servicing more often on AVS especially when used for short journeys/low mileages.



garyc said:


> They are also still more desirable as used car propositions.


Not now they aren't, most people buying second hand Diesel cars are private buyers, they are starting to realise the premium/extra fuel/servicing costs are not worth it any more unless you do more than 20k per year.



garyc said:


> You may not claw back whole Â£3400 extra initial outlay in increased residuals, but it's a fair bet to say that a subsequent owner would be happy to pay Â£2500 premium for the tdi variant.


Not sure about that, the usual rule of thumb is Â£1k over the petrol for a second hand car.


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## garyc

jbell said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Diesels have a higher duty cycle and are capable of far higher mileages than their petrol equivs. They generally have lower servicing costs, are more reliable, components last longer and are therefore cheaper to run in long run.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure the "It will be OK at 100k" really matters, the fact is all cars are more reliable these days and capable of starship mileages s*o long as they are maintained properly*, many Diesel cars have higher servicing costs than their petrol equivalent and have to be serviced more frequently. Diesel is a very unrefined (dirty) fuel in comparison to Petrol.
> 
> Audi have the same service intervals for Petrol and Diesel but the Diesel cars need servicing more often on AVS especially when used for short journeys/low mileages.
> 
> 
> 
> garyc said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are also still more desirable as used car propositions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not now they aren't, most people buying second hand Diesel cars are private buyers, they are starting to realise the premium/extra fuel/servicing costs are not worth it any more unless you do more than 20k per year.
> 
> 
> 
> garyc said:
> 
> 
> 
> You may not claw back whole Â£3400 extra initial outlay in increased residuals, but it's a fair bet to say that a subsequent owner would be happy to pay Â£2500 premium for the tdi variant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Not sure about that, the usual rule of thumb is Â£1k over the petrol for a second hand car*.
Click to expand...

Were it a 2.0tdi A5 compared to 2.0Tfsi you'd have a point. 3.0 tdi is a league above, so Â£2500-Â£3000 entirely reasonable estimate.

On servicing/running costs, they will both cost same in long service oil change intervals, although petrol engine will drink more oil in between.

The diesels exhaust will last far longer than the petrol, due to lesser h2O content in diesel burn. This is a significant saving.

The electrical ignition systems on petrol will be an expense to maintain that will completely absent on diesel motor. This is a saving.

The heavier nature of derv tends to lubricate engine internals and ancilleries much better than does petrol, which tends to strip the oil coatings internally. The better lubricated engine always lasts longer and wears less, reducing frequency of components replacments (belts, chains, pumps, cams valves etc).

The fact that petrols (especially blown ones) run far hotter than diesels places far more thermodynamic strain on engines and this effects longevity of components.

Turbos on both should last same time, although the Tsi will probably have to be on higher boost and for more often in normal driving than will unstressed diesel, so this may wear its bearings and seals sooner than the derv.

So for these reasons "as long as they are maintained correctly" just means that you will be routinely replacing more engine bits on a petrol lump than a diesel.


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## Jimbo2

Mate's been running a 3.0TDI Sport pretty much since the A5 landed and it is a stunning machine. If the TTS had never been launched I would be driving one now.

It's a really comfortable crusier with "proper" rear-biased quattro which can really put the power down onto the road when it needs to. It's well spec'd with decent equipment levels which Audi seem unable to put into smaller cars (eg. B&O, decent bluetooth, SD card).

It's also pretty good on the fuel economy when not pressing on.... IMO a good choice to move to after the TT if you need a bigger car with better mpg.

One final thought. The A5 is something of a repmobile, so the smaller engined, less well specified versions will probably be hit pretty hard on resale.


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## Hilly10

Jimbo The A5 is out of the Reps league the cheapest is the 1.8t and when you have added a few toys which you will, you are up to 30 grand. Cant see A5s on company lists for a rep, middle management yes.


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## Janitor

jbell and garyc - great input chaps and you're discussing things that the opposite end of the extremes... and as such are probably both right!


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## Janitor

Jimbo - yes, that's a pretty fair depiction... although I think, as does Hilly, that it is a touch above the Mondeo / A4 / 3 series norm


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## Hilly10

You still like it then :roll:


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## Janitor

It's an attractive motor car Paul isn't it..?


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## Hilly10

One reason I brought mine the shape jut does it for me, drop dead  Have you decided yet


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