# Planning a new garage. Options to discuss...



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Hi Guys,

We're moving house shortly and I'll be looking to build a large detached, double garage (roughly 25ft square) with an office on the first floor.

In keeping with the structure of the house I'm thinking a stone wall all round about 3ft high and then the rest built out of oak with a pitched roof. At the rear end I want a small deck extending from the first floor which will also provide cover beneath for logs and other stuff that doesn't require dry, secure storage.

I want the staircase to the first floor to be inside the garage and at the top I'd have french doors to the deck. The roof will probably have Velux type lights and at the front another door to a Juliet type balcony.

Internally upstairs the roof will be vaulted to give a feeling of space. Externally the main garage doors will be wooden but behind that I want an electric roll-up shutter door to provide extra security but also enable the cars to be driven out without then having to close the outer doors.

I'll definitely be needing power and water to the garage and as it's an office above, drainage too. Heating-wise I am thinking of a wood burner in order to avoid the need to feed gas and to make use of the logs stored beneath. That is not written in stone however. In many respects underfloor heating makes more sense because I need to minimise the generation of dust. I take Macs apart for a living and dust is the bane of my life...

Returning to the garage I want to future proof it as much as possible. Cars are getting bigger so I want plenty of room around them to be able to have the doors opened to full extent without hitting each other. I'd rather have a massive double than a small triple although if space and budget allows I think there is room for a triple which I'd use like a double with a half garage space for other stuff.

So really I'm looking for advice. I've never built my own garage nor had the land required to do so. Would you get a builder to do it or use one of those oak garage companies that are springing up everywhere?

Are there any architects/builders/electricians/specialists on here that would like to add any professional words of wisdom. Is there anything I haven't thought of?

Well there is - cost! :lol:

The specification here is more of a wish list from which I can remove things to come within budget. The deck for example could be added later if the basic structural requirements are built.

Would anyone like to hazard a guess at price? I'd rather spend the money on the work rather than contributing towards some company's marketing budget. So in that respect a small building company or team of freelancers might be more cost-effective. But then it needs to be project-managed...

Gimme your thoughts guys!


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## Ikon66 (Sep 12, 2003)

You might some ideas here 

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/f ... y.php?f=31


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Ikon66 said:


> You might some ideas here
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/f ... y.php?f=31


Thanks for that. There are some pretty hideous structures in there though. This has got to be sympathetic to the house. This is the front and the driveway. The garage is not being built here but you can see the stone wall that I want to reflect. All the window frames are solid oak too so this is the look I'm looking to emulate...



This is where the garage will be located. There's plenty of room to the left and right of this and existing access to the road...


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

I can't imagine you'll get the finish you want with an "off the shelf" type product. I imagine like most things, it comes down to how much you're willing to spend on a garage. Doubling it up as a work-space is a good idea as you can justify that as a business expense 

I can't see cars getting any wider really, materials are getting stronger and the roads aren't getting any wider, so hopefully we're at peak width (famous last words, I know).


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Dash said:


> Doubling it up as a work-space is a good idea as you can justify that as a business expense


Are you 100% sure about that? Are there any tax implications should we later sell the property?

Regarding the garage itself I did a rough design using this online tool.

http://www.cbstructuresinc.com/resource ... lanner.php

I reckon I need a 25x25 ft space to achieve what I want and having measured up it looks achievable but will require some serious ground clearance to remove some dead trees and level the area.

Does anyone live in the Crowborough, East Sussex area and have access to plant? There might be an opportunity for some moonlighting! :lol:


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

rustyintegrale said:


> Dash said:
> 
> 
> > Doubling it up as a work-space is a good idea as you can justify that as a business expense
> ...


Sorry, didn't mean from a tax perspective, more from a should I spend quite so much money on something. Wife approval, and all that sort of stuff. Although I'm sure there would be merit into looking into it, if you're using it for business then you should be able to at least be able to partially class it that way for tax. I can't imagine it'll be an issue when coming to sell it - unless you've got a standalone business that owns the asset independently, but even then that's not going to be massively complicated. Might be worth looking in to.

Might want to get an architect to take a look if you're going for something serious with working space above.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Dash said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> > Dash said:
> ...


All seems like good advice, thanks!


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Sounds an ambitious project Rich. I too have been looking to move garage, sorry I mean house, in order to gain more room for working on the car etc.

25' x 25' is a very good size. Plenty of room for work benches too.

The one thing I can advise you on is the doors. The best automatic and quality I've come across are Hörmann. The sections are 42 mm thick and double powder coatedv steel clad foam filled in various finishes which makes then so strong you could walk on them if horizontal and they are also of very good heat insulation quality. They are also "silent"- if you thump them with your fist they sound like a house stud wall.

Contrast that to the roller 15mm thick foam filed type that roll up into a box just above the door - if you tap them with your fingers they rattle. So, good wind indicators! Plus low security - over a 25 foot spance (if they go that far) you could push the door in by walking into it and pull it out of the side guides with a proper shove.

Try that with the sectional doors and you'd injure yourself first. They are solid.

Just make sure you have the headroom and clear roof space for retracing a sectional door. By far the best though.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

John-H said:


> Sounds an ambitious project Rich. I too have been looking to move garage, sorry I mean house, in order to gain more room for working on the car etc.
> 
> 25' x 25' is a very good size. Plenty of room for work benches too.
> 
> ...


Thank you John, I've been learning about Hormann doors. I've also been besieged by brochures from oak frame companies! It's amazing what they can do if you throw enough cash at it.

I can't wait to turn my dreams into reality but I suspect I might end up living in it!


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Hörmann do oak variants too but not as insulative.


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

Might want to get an architect to take a look if you're going for something serious with working space above.

It`s a garage, you don`t need an architect, contact your local TRUSS manufacturer, they will design an attic type trussed roof for any required use, I am sure 25ft is not to big a span, it will also be cheaper than a traditional roof.


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

I'd go for a nice zinc roof up top, longer lasting then most roof finishes with an expected life of 75-100 years and in my opinion look fantastic on most buildings, from renovated barns to ultra modern houses! It's lightweight too, so truss size can be lowered to give slightly more room on the second floor and can go to a lower pitch than slates/tiles, so you can raise the eaves and gain yet more height.

Of course I would say that, as It's my industry, however if you wanted a guideline of cost I can help you out with that.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

NickG said:


> I'd go for a nice zinc roof up top, longer lasting then most roof finishes with an expected life of 75-100 years and in my opinion look fantastic on most buildings, from renovated barns to ultra modern houses! It's lightweight too, so truss size can be lowered to give slightly more room on the second floor and can go to a lower pitch than slates/tiles, so you can raise the eaves and gain yet more height.
> 
> Of course I would say that, as It's my industry, however if you wanted a guideline of cost I can help you out with that.


That could be interesting Nick, thank you. We've been toying with the idea of a zinc top to an island in the kitchen. If it works for French bars I'd presume it's a good surface for a kitchen too. Do you have any words of wisdom on that idea?

I will PM you later about the roof...

Thanks,

Rich


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

Oh yes, zinc countertops are nice, I think they have antibacterial properties much like copper hence their use in the kitchen.

Not cheap but well worth it for a decent sized kitchen I'd say!

Yep, drop me a PM whenever you like, I've managed to dig a couple of photos out of a project we recently completed that's had Oak shiplap cladding with a zinc roof...


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

My garage door is from this company: http://novoferm.co.uk/products/garage-d ... nal-doors/

Similar thing by the sounds of things, sectional thing that's thick and insulated, rubber seal along the bottom. It does sound a bit creeky and squeeky when it raises, but that's probably just the age and I suspect it could do with a service.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Dash said:


> My garage door is from this company: http://novoferm.co.uk/products/garage-d ... nal-doors/
> 
> Similar thing by the sounds of things, sectional thing that's thick and insulated, rubber seal along the bottom. It does sound a bit creeky and squeeky when it raises, but that's probably just the age and I suspect it could do with a service.


I'm not bothered by looks for this door. The plan is to site it behind some traditional swing-open manual doors anyway. That way we can drive out but still have the garage secure until we return.


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

Unless you have heating in the garage what`s the point of all the insulation and cost.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

bobclive22 said:


> Unless you have heating in the garage what`s the point of all the insulation and cost.


There will be heating because I'm having an office above it. I also want noise insulation because I tend to play my music loud. :roll:


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## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

I built my own garage, some time ago.
It is what would be classed as a leanto 3 walls  .Less than 10% of the volume of the house (kinda) so no planning permission reqd. Because of matching up constraints the front roof level is the same as the entranceway in the pics and I had to have the rear roof line just below a side window..n so on.
I did the walls ,roofing timbers,tiling and wall capping myself.
I got a plasterer to do the outside rending,an electrician for the wiring, got the back door made and front roller panel door obviously 
Door has been electrically operated since day 1.
Its slightly oversquare  internally 15 feet wide by 14' 6" long.
Great length of a tt, opel tigra or a porsche 911 :lol: (megane fits in with just about squeeze space front or back depending where you park it).
Alength of old garden hose hanging on the end wall is a very good visual STOP marker .
Front roller panel door 6'6" high by 8' wide cost around 600 12 years ago. rear door(hardwood) 280. 
All in with most of the work myself around 2500-3000.

15ft wide with both walls lined wi shelves appliances n stuff,park it normally and you can open both tt doors to the second stop, or park it to one side and you can open one door fully.


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## gcp (Aug 8, 2002)

I have an air conditioning unit doing heating/cooling in my office above the garage.
A+ Daikin iirc, cost about £1200 including fitting and has negligible running costs.


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

Just thinking about a few legal bits. The house looks interesting - if it's a listed building you might have to comply with certain requirements. 
Do you think you could have planning problems in using the upper floor as a business?

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## barry_m2 (Jun 29, 2015)

rustyintegrale said:


>


What a lovely looking house. I love old properties like this, what year was it built? We're traced ours back to about 1840.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

gcp said:


> I have an air conditioning unit doing heating/cooling in my office above the garage.
> A+ Daikin iirc, cost about £1200 including fitting and has negligible running costs.


That sounds like an excellent 'two birds with one stone' solution, thanks!

I had a quick look at the Daikin website but not sure what product I'm looking for. Do you have a product/model number please?

Thanks,

Rich


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

ZephyR2 said:


> Just thinking about a few legal bits. The house looks interesting - if it's a listed building you might have to comply with certain requirements.
> Do you think you could have planning problems in using the upper floor as a business?
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Amazingly it isn't listed. I don't imagine too much of a problem with planning. I don't have a 'shop' as such and it would really be more of a home office but located above the garage. There are plenty of other residents in the area who have done the same.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

barry_m2 said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


Thank you!

It was originally one big house and built in 1904. We are having the bulk of it but ideally it would be nice to get the rest at some point. The original gardens were absolutely massive overlooking Ashdown Forest in Sussex but they've been sold off over the years. We still have about 0.5-0.75 acre mostly facing south and west.

Here's a drawing of the original house. You can see our bit hasn't really changed at all...


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Yes fits look nice. Operating a business from the premises may not have a planning issue but if there's a mortgage the lender might restrict and there may be restrictive covenants on the deeds worth checking.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

John-H said:


> Yes fits look nice. Operating a business from the premises may not have a planning issue but if there's a mortgage the lender might restrict and there may be restrictive covenants on the deeds worth checking.


No mortgage!


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

rustyintegrale said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> > Yes fits look nice. Operating a business from the premises may not have a planning issue but if there's a mortgage the lender might restrict and there may be restrictive covenants on the deeds worth checking.
> ...


I thought so perhaps but even so, restrictive covenants could still be applied on the office copy entries from since the house was built or split to form two houses in consideration of adjoining occupiers etc. irrespective of any mortgage which may have applied additional restrictions.

I think mine say I can't run a business from the property.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

John-H said:


> I thought so perhaps but even so, restrictive covenants could still be applied on the office copy entries from since the house was built or split to form two houses in consideration of adjoining occupiers etc. irrespective of any mortgage which may have applied additional restrictions.
> 
> I think mine say I can't run a business from the property.


I should hope anything like that will be flagged up during the searches. I will ask the question but in all honesty I'm not employing people to work from my office. It is essentially a place for me to have a workshop instead of using a room in the house like I do now.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Restrictive covenants on deeds don't tend to be worth the paper they're written on. They can only be enforced by the previous owner, and why would they care?

They're generally put in by developers to keep new sites nice looking while they sell everything. Once it's all sold they don't care less what people do.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Dash said:


> Restrictive covenants on deeds don't tend to be worth the paper they're written on. They can only be enforced by the previous owner, and why would they care?
> 
> They're generally put in by developers to keep new sites nice looking while they sell everything. Once it's all sold they don't care less what people do.


Yeah that's pretty much what I thought. I will check it out though - even if only to help the wording for the planning application... :lol:


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

My daughter rented an apartment over a double length double garage for a while. She had plenty of space so should provide you with enough space and even in the very harsh winter it was nice and warm. 
The heating was taken off the main house boiler as the garage was very close. Not sure if you could do that with yours. 
Underfloor heating over an unheated garage could work out very expensive to run unless you install lots of insulation beneath it.

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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Dash said:


> Restrictive covenants on deeds don't tend to be worth the paper they're written on. They can only be enforced by the previous owner, and why would they care?
> 
> They're generally put in by developers to keep new sites nice looking while they sell everything. Once it's all sold they don't care less what people do.


That can be the case but if your next door neighbor was being a nuisance the deeds which are a public record could be used to enforce an order to stop them doing whatever it is . Perhaps unlikely for what Rich is doing but you could imagine some scenarios. Having just moved house my solicitor advised me to read the covenants carefully. Having had a nuisance neighbour in the past I did look into what I could do about it - luckily I didn't need to as the situation resolved itself.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

John-H said:


> That can be the case but if your next door neighbor was being a nuisance the deeds which are a public record could be used to enforce an order to stop them doing whatever it is . Perhaps unlikely for what Rich is doing but you could imagine some scenarios. Having just moved house my solicitor advised me to read the covenants carefully. Having had a nuisance neighbour in the past I did look into what I could do about it - luckily I didn't need to as the situation resolved itself.


This is interesting, I've only done arm-chair research into the subject but it seemed that it was only enforceable by the previous owner. So whilst you could use against a nuisance neighbour, you'd have to somehow convince the previous owner to bring action against them.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Is the previous owner being confused with the landlord? If the property is leasehold the covenants usually revert to the landlord, so you'd have to ask permission to alter the property and the landlord may have rights of inspection etc. You'd have a ground rent to pay and there may also be restrictions as to growing trees above a certain height in your front garden or hanging your washing out there or parking caravans or high sided vehicles or altering the frontage or appearance of the property etc. More basic things such as drainage rights across boundaries will likely be covered too. A lot of this is to do with the original planning permission obtained by the developer from the council.

If the property is freehold, or you purchase the freehold title so you effectively become the landlord so you have to ask your own permission, you still have to fall under the local authority regulations, which may also be written into the freehold purchase as a restriction or just presumed as falling under local authority rules or original agreements.

(from recent experience)


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

I keep forgetting people still buy houses leasehold


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## gcp (Aug 8, 2002)

rustyintegrale said:


> gcp said:
> 
> 
> > I have an air conditioning unit doing heating/cooling in my office above the garage.
> ...


Sorry I took so long to reply, model number not obvious on internal wall unit, external is out of reach so not easy to access.

I worked out kW needed then researched running costs before looking at ones for sale.

Mine is 3.5kw, likely you might need more.
As a hayfever sufferer it's great this time of year!

Looks like this one but this is 5kw
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321815018427


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