# Thoughts on digital dash.



## leopard (May 1, 2015)

Well over a year ago I had the mk3 tts on my shortlist,that is until I found out that the instrumentation was going to be digitized.I am well aware this divides opinion but wonder how many more people if given the chance would have considered the mk3 if the dash had a reworked analogue panel (reworked mk2) and a centralised sat navigation display aka the S3.


----------



## sherry13 (Oct 8, 2013)

One of the reasons why I will be getting a mark 3 is because of the Virtual cockpit. It looks amazing, and much better than using my phone as a sat nav. It is basically very cool.

I was concerned when I read about it initially as I like the look of dials in a sporty car and there was a danger if it looking like the sort of display you used to get on 1990s ghetto blasters, all dodgy blue and plastic chrome.

But it actually basically looks sick, as the youth of today would say. 

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


----------



## RockKramer (Feb 15, 2012)

I could take it or leave it... Tech lovers will see it as a must have and it is pretty impressive. At the end of the day it's down to what you want and how you want it. Personally the MK3 does nothing for me so the Virtual Cockpit neither here nor there. I prefer analogue dials but all dashes are going TFT... Audi have just pushed it the furthest. How good will it look in 4yrs time? Also it's not unique to the TT so it won't seem that special when it's in more and more VW product.


----------



## sherry13 (Oct 8, 2013)

I imagine the business model of the screen will be to "do an Apple" and have a redesign every few years which u can either pay for or of course have in the latest model year. So it means for the first time, they can make money out of regular soft-wear updates. Will Audi be able to make ££ out of a 3 year old mark 3? They can if they have a new screen design to sell.

Have to say though, it's all gone a bit "can I have my TT in silver and with dials" around here. Horses for courses I suppose.

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


----------



## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

All depends how good their tech is really. Straight digital displays have been standard on cars for years, with digital rev counter bars, and speedos, so tend to work okay.

This is higher tech, so imagine will go wrong at some point, just like my laptop tends to start playing up, and needs replacing or major fix after about 3-4 years, so imagine there will be an official Audi upgrade / IT install at some regular interval, but would owners of 5-10 year old cars want to keep going back to dealers and paying £300(+)for this on a regular basis?

Could be well off target, as not at all IT savvy. But recall the old joke about Microsoft making cars and they would do 200mph and 300mpg, be green, and look good. Only problem is every now and again, you would need to reboot, hit control / alt / delete at the same time and restart, as no obvious fault. Easy on a laptop, but not in the fast lane of the M25 in rush hour..


----------



## leopard (May 1, 2015)

Interesting replies.Some of my concerns centred on the distraction factor of having all the bells and whistles in front of you (wonder whether it'll just be a matter of time before somebody with a mk3 rear ends another),the tech not aging very well re:Astra GTE, the reliability re: TT mk1 dashpods and the boredom factor for passengers.
I think it is a win-win for the VAG group because after initial start up costs,the price per unit will be as cheap as chips,more so than producing an analogue unit with all it's associated moving parts.


----------



## SpudZ (Jul 15, 2012)

I share your concern re rear ending someone. Far safer to text someone than find your music folder on the move....


----------



## leopard (May 1, 2015)

@ SpudZ, 
I take it that you don't mean it's safer to text somebody on the move surely?


----------



## RockKramer (Feb 15, 2012)

I've had 2hrs split between a TT & TTS on test drives... I didn't find it dristracting at all. Fundamentally, the virtual cockpit is a brilliant piece of kit. The MMI is fairly intuitive. I screwed up a couple times but instantly knew where I'd gone wrong. Having the NAV directly in front of you makes perfect sense. I don't struggle with the NAV being in the centre in the mk2 or searching for music on the phone but it's more of a definite glance away from the road to look at the NAV. Just pick your moment carefully or pull over. 
Once you're all set there's not really a need to keep looking at the screen unless you're total mesmerised by the tech.. Mostly you'll have the speedo & revs front and centre.
I know I raised the point of the tech dating but I don't think it's going to look like an old Nokia in 4yrs. It should have good longevity. The mk2 tech, NAV, is showing its age now but it's not down and out. It still impresses passengers and it's what 9yrs old in the TT... If it's what you like, the virtual cockpit will last very well.


----------



## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

It's a simple question; would you buy an iPhone or Samsung smartphone with the intention of never replacing it or upgrading it for the next 3-5 years? Because that's exactly what you've done if you own an Audi TT Mk3 should you keep it that long.

As with the RNS-E, the technology was already outdated when it was installed; no touch screen, no USB, a CD player in the glove box, a DVD to run the GPS, no ability for the user to upgrade the software without going through Audi and absolutely no ability to modify the operating features. I agree, the digital dash has a huge "wow" factor, but so did iPhones, Smartphones and Samsung tablets when they first hit the market but at least you can easily upgrade or replace them.

Audi makes good cars, but their core competency is not electronics, especially those that we rely on for keeping us connected to the rest of the world. My smartphone automatically upgrades it's own software without me doing anything. Likewise with Google maps and a dozen or so apps I use every day. And I can add or delete any app at any time, anywhere in the world without going through Samsung or my communications provider.

I don't see Audi making that same offer based on their current marketing strategy. While I don't mind replacing my smartphone with the latest technology now and then, with a TT Mk3 I'd have to replace the entire car to accomplish the same thing.


----------



## leopard (May 1, 2015)

+1,the RNSE is old tech but it works and works well imo.Having touchscreen imo is a step backwards (greasey hands=greasey screen) and is a pita to keep clean.
Touchscreen is also cumbersome whilst on the move. BMW make the best interface at the moment with their professional system,very intuitive and user friendly.


----------



## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

Granted, touch screen does have its limits especially for automotive applications. But I would bet I can manually enter and set an address in my Tomtom touch screen faster than you can in with a RNS-E dial. ;-)

Voice activation will most likely be the "next gen" for automotive on-board electronics. However I would expect voice recognition technology will advance faster than Audi's digital dash.

Have you seen the NEXUS replacement for the RNS-E in the Mk2 Forum? Pretty slick!


----------



## leopard (May 1, 2015)

No doubt,it all boils down to what you're used to,though I will concede that the rnse set up is slow, if a little dim witted.The Nexus indeed does look slick but with things like this I'm always worried about resale concerns.
Voice activation in cars at present is a joke and can't understand how Google can get it right by recognising command and manufacturers can't.


----------



## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

I think in time, and in not that much time, the Audi digital dash will quickly become outdated. That's my single fear in buying a Mk3; being stuck with outdated electronics 3-5 years from now.

Just look the navigation. Right now we have apps like Waze, which links us to other drivers information and provides real time road updates of traffic, accidents and it's smart enough to re-route you automatically. That app alone just outdated the Mk3's technology.

Mechanically, there's really no significant leaps-and-bounds advancements between the Mk1 and Mk3 other than some cosmetics and performance enhancements. At the end of the day, we still use pistons to turn a crank to spin the transmission and rotate the tires. However, when you compare the Mk1 electronics to the Mk3, it's the difference between a rotary phone and an iPhone.

Think about it, when you leave your home, do you leave your smartphone behind and use a completely different one at your office? Of course not. So why not design a car where it can interface with it's owners primary communication devices and simply provide a monitor to display whatever operating system we want?


----------



## aquazi (Dec 24, 2014)

They should have just integrated carplay into the mk3 and be done with it!!

As much as i love how integrated the rnse is... My appradio unit is so much more useable.... A good example... I can say "hey siri" then after the beep say "navigate me home" and thats the nav sorted without taking my hands off the wheel.

Sent from my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk


----------



## leopard (May 1, 2015)

You can do voice only commands with the sat navigation, radio and phone on the VW RNSE 510,what difference does the app radio unit bring to the table?


----------



## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

@ aquazi - Exactly!  Leave it to Audi to take something simple, and turn it into something painfully complicated...and then parade it around like it's all that and a bag of chips! :twisted:

@ leopard - My point is the Mk3, despite the digital dash and voice commands, is still not connected to the rest of the world like a smartphone and requires another device to do it. If they had been really forward thinking, interconnectivity could have been a significant tech advantage over BMW or anyone else.


----------



## ReTTro fit (Nov 9, 2014)

leopard said:


> You can do voice only commands with the sat navigation, radio and phone on the VW RNSE 510,what difference does the app radio unit bring to the table?


You can do full voice commands as above on the Audi rns-e unit with SDS enabled






On iPhone using Tapacrap


----------



## aquazi (Dec 24, 2014)

leopard said:


> You can do voice only commands with the sat navigation, radio and phone on the VW RNSE 510,what difference does the app radio unit bring to the table?


My car had voice commands enabled...but with that i had to say press a button then say play cd etc.

With app radio you dont have to press any button... Just say "hey siri" then you can set a command in spoken english... Such "navigate me to the nearest petrol station"

If only they had thought of incorporating carplay into that display!

Not seen how good the mk3 voice commands are but i know the wifes merc has good nav commands... Can be spoken in a single string such as "26 keble road, Leicester" unlike some cars where you have to break the address down line by line....

Sent from my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk


----------



## leopard (May 1, 2015)

@ 1 wheelonly.Thanks for the info,didn't realise that one,thought only the newer VAG units were only capable.
@aquazi Gotcha,understand what you mean.


----------



## BaTTyboy (Feb 7, 2014)

Am I missing something? The RNSE posts should be in the Mk 2 forum not on here now that the car has been with us for 6 months.

As far as the Mk 3 sat nav is concerned I am very impressed with the way it informs me about traffic problems along my chosen route and on more than one occasion it has re-routed me to avoid traffic congestion. I didn't believe it when it happened the first time but there is voice and visual information given which is in real time and accurate. The MMI system is properly integrated and allows me to access functions using the dash controls or the multifunction steering wheel or by voice. Personally I would much rather have that than a touchscreen

I also don't understand the comments about lack of voice technology. It may be a bit primitive but it is there and it works


----------



## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Not wanting to get into a fanboy debate but carplay would have been and is a complete disaster.
In the same way as a pilot I would not want apple in the cockpit I don't want it in the car either.

It's not the end of the world when you have to apply a patch or reboot the phone. in an aircraf/car having to reboot or apply a patch to a bug is just a recipe for a disaster. Plus of late the quality of software coming from apple is well below par. Cars need to be stable and controlled, not open to public messing due to the safety considerations needed for this application of technology. Opening up online content like a "mobile phone" would be completely stupid - it's not a mobile phone. Sure have an API, but open, no.

The VC was developed in partnership, not solely by Audi.


----------



## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

The other problem, which isn't even a technical one, is the inability for the passenger to be able to use it. At least with a center console location, your passenger could help out with the GPS and other features. By placing everything in front of the driver, the passenger is basically excluded.

Granted, it's "all about the driver" but when on road trips, I appreciate my "navigator" being able to run POI searches so I can focus on getting through traffic while she's chasing down hotels, restaurants, gas stations, tourist spots, alternate routes, etc.


----------



## leopard (May 1, 2015)

@ BaTTyboy.
You are missing something.If you re-read the threads you will see that the discussion about the RNSE was a natural progression about the various topologies of available technology ie: the sat navigation in the mk2 is the RNSE and is centralised.
Your mention of voice technology has reiterated what the discussion was about anyway,so basically yes,all relevant.


----------



## sherry13 (Oct 8, 2013)

I don't buy this argument that the passenger can't do anything. The screen is so big, they can can see it easily from the passenger seat. And they have a big button to input the details right where it needs to be. The next generation is likely to have a glovebox screen as seen in Audi's latest concepts but in the meantime all they have to do is look at the screen and input.

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


----------



## leopard (May 1, 2015)

Without sounding confrontational I do buy the argument that the passenger can't do alot.I've sat in one 5 times now including twice as a passenger and it is a very isolated experience both for the driver (having all visuals in front) and for the passenger who is going to have to wind his neck out to make a lot of sense of anything quite frankly. 
Why do you think that Audi have had a think and are going to include a "glovebox" screen.


----------



## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

leopard said:


> Without sounding confrontational I do buy the argument that the passenger can't do alot.I've sat in one 5 times now including twice as a passenger and it is a very isolated experience both for the driver (having all visuals in front) and for the passenger who is going to have to wind his neck out to make a lot of sense of anything quite frankly.
> Why do you think that Audi have had a think and are going to include a "glovebox" screen.


Can see Audi creating an option for second screen. Probably be £450 + Vat?


----------



## TortToise (Aug 22, 2009)

BaTTyboy said:


> Am I missing something? The RNSE posts should be in the Mk 2 forum not on here now that the car has been with us for 6 months.
> 
> As far as the Mk 3 sat nav is concerned I am very impressed with the way it informs me about traffic problems along my chosen route and on more than one occasion it has re-routed me to avoid traffic congestion. I didn't believe it when it happened the first time but there is voice and visual information given which is in real time and accurate. The MMI system is properly integrated and allows me to access functions using the dash controls or the multifunction steering wheel or by voice. Personally I would much rather have that than a touchscreen
> 
> I also don't understand the comments about lack of voice technology. It may be a bit primitive but it is there and it works


The RNSE does the rerouting thing too (I was very surprised the first time it happened also) and can also be coaxed to support basic voice commands (you'll need to talk to someone like Hazzydayz to get it enabled), so the Mk3 isn't really a huge advance in that respect.


----------



## TortToise (Aug 22, 2009)

Toshiba said:


> Not wanting to get into a fanboy debate but carplay would have been and is a complete disaster.
> In the same way as a pilot I would not want apple in the cockpit I don't want it in the car either.
> 
> It's not the end of the world when you have to apply a patch or reboot the phone. in an aircraf/car having to reboot or apply a patch to a bug is just a recipe for a disaster. Plus of late the quality of software coming from apple is well below par. Cars need to be stable and controlled, not open to public messing due to the safety considerations needed for this application of technology. Opening up online content like a "mobile phone" would be completely stupid - it's not a mobile phone. Sure have an API, but open, no.
> ...


Haven't seen carplay but the demo of Android Auto that 'The Verge' put up on youtube looks interesting. Would have thought that a technology like that would be very suited to the huge screen in the dashboard - though it seemed to be touch-heavy.






Also, VW have announced that they will support Android Auto and Carplay by the end of this year, so that moves the game on a bit.

http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/5/74...will-be-in-volkswagen-cars-this-year-ces-2015


----------



## TortToise (Aug 22, 2009)

Shug750S said:


> leopard said:
> 
> 
> > Without sounding confrontational I do buy the argument that the passenger can't do alot.I've sat in one 5 times now including twice as a passenger and it is a very isolated experience both for the driver (having all visuals in front) and for the passenger who is going to have to wind his neck out to make a lot of sense of anything quite frankly.
> ...


You could have a second screen for passengers via an app for tablet/phone, seems more sensible/cost effective than putting a glovebox screen in.


----------



## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

You are mixing two subjects, the The digital dash and basic informatics for the low end cars.


----------



## sherry13 (Oct 8, 2013)

leopard said:


> Without sounding confrontational I do buy the argument that the passenger can't do alot.I've sat in one 5 times now including twice as a passenger and it is a very isolated experience both for the driver (having all visuals in front) and for the passenger who is going to have to wind his neck out to make a lot of sense of anything quite frankly.
> Why do you think that Audi have had a think and are going to include a "glovebox" screen.


I've been in the passenger seat and done it without any problems whatsoever. I've also switched off from everything the VC is doing while driving, and then glancing down when I need to. So personally, it wouldn't be an issue. If your neck is that bad, you need a chiropractor not a second screen.

Talking of which, here are some stills of the Prologue concept's passenger information system(s) which we can all look forward to paying about £3k for when the mark 4 comes along.































Link with horrid music, here.






Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


----------



## can_quattro (Jun 11, 2009)

When Audi first showed the Virtual Cockpit at CES, they also showed this Android Tablet to take care of the passenger issue. I have not seen any more about it in a long time.


----------



## leopard (May 1, 2015)

I saw this mentioned as well,but then I heard a passenger sat nat unit like that in the S3 was going to be used and then this glove box concept rears it's head......so who knows.


----------



## TortToise (Aug 22, 2009)

Toshiba said:


> You are mixing two subjects, the The digital dash and basic informatics for the low end cars.


You were talking about Carplay which is for media and nav, rather than basic dashboard info. Along with Android Auto it's designed to allow you to add those features from your smartphone.

IMO, Audi should have supported integrating them into the VC dash display and MFW controls as an infotainment option. That huge screen is present in every mk3 TT and is begging to be used for such an application - but it seems they'd rather try to get £2k out of people who want satnav and internet connectivity.

Meanwhile, VW and a bunch of other makers are set to support the two standards with their OEM infotainment units meaning that Audi could very will find themselves lagging behind in features and usability before long.


----------

