# Serious Suggestions Please (Update) ???



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Certain comments (plus my recent thoughts) have got me thinking that perhaps spending Â£80K on another very powerful saloon is not the best way forward, so i'm asking for a little of your time in putting forward suggestions??

Rather than just saying go for an XYZ, please could you also state the logic for your suggestion.

I still think the CLS55 AMG is a stunning car & does fit my current perceived criteria, but perhaps their are other more appealing options that i'm overlooking. My order will stay in place, as i know i'll make a turn on my slot, as i did with the New M5.

Only point i will make is that i refuse to purchase 2 cars & have the associated running/insurance costs etc. so i'm not looking for a sensible car along with a track day toy, even though in an ideal world, a track toy would be fun.

Thanks in advance 

Ps. After yet again playing with a few exotica on the M6 Toll yesterday, i've now not totally discounted keeping hold of the RS6 for another 2-3years, as the look on more percieved exotic car drivers when they get turned over by the Beast, is a total delight & a source of much joy


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

You are allowed to keep the beast providing you stop CALLING IT the beast  It has to be the most sensible solution, provided you can work around the high(ish) maintenence costs and increasing lack of warranty... you obviously like it, and have spent a fair amount of effort and money getting it to its current state of tune and handling.

Maybe what I said rang true... you have to think long and hard about how much driving you'll be doing, and how often you'll need more than 2 people in. What sort of luggage do you need to cart around (knowing you, at least enough boot space for 5 or 6 different aftershaves and several changes of clothes - and that's just to go to the office for the day!) and whether you'll be doing "fun" or motorway miles. Lets not forget how you came down to Hatfield last time, eh?

If you can safely assume you can use Judith's car for "family" outings, you've a whole raft of cars open to you. Discounting Porsche (who wants one of those, anyway?) there are various interesting options, including the Audi R9, AM V8 or wait a while and get the NEW RS6 with the Lambo engine. Raid the piggy bank and get a Bentley GT...


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## paulb (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> Only point i will make is that i refuse to purchase 2 cars & have the associated running/insurance costs etc. so i'm not looking for a sensible car along with a track day toy, even though in an ideal world, a track toy would be fun.


Paul

This is the bit I don't understand. You seem to have a 'blind spot' to depreciation as you think that running costs of 2 cars is prohibitive. You also seem very upset by the fact that the RS6 may cost Â£2k-Â£3k a year in servicing. If you factor in fuel and depreciation on any of these super saloons, then I would have thought the 2 car approach could make financial sense (I know it has for me in the past).

Then the super saloon could be something like an A8 TDi or 535d (having been in Clive's it is very impressive) which would give you better economy and hence save on fuel costs and be self funding. This would then allow you to fund a toy car too. No matter what you do, you are never going to turn a 2 tonne saloon into a track car but you will (have) spent a fortune trying.

Have you calculated the monthly depreciation on your RS6 to see what it has really cost? I bet it will be a bigger number than the service costs you were so horrified by!

If you do insist on moving on though, I would reckon that a LOI on a new XKR may not be a bad plan. The other thing I would try is a Porsche Cayenne Turbo. They look like a slapped arse, but are pretty quick.

The other problem with all these supersaloons is that, living in the North West, everyone will think you are Wayne Rooney.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

That new powder-egg blue Jag is absolutely stunning. I think I'd take it over the AM V8 if it wasn't for the fact I've always hankered after something built in Newport Pagnell rather than Coventry... 

As much as I'd like a faster estate car than my S4, to be honest, I really can't see the point. I can be a total hooligan in it already, and the looks on other driver's faces are pretty funny, considering (despite the colour) my car is even less "inyourface" than the RS6. Much more of a Q car... 

Perhaps the highest I'd go is the new shape RS4, which should still be under Â£50k even with options. That leaves almost enough to get an Aerial Atom or Exige for fun.

I think Paul C's "problem" with Track Cars is (like me) that he simply doesn't have the time at weekends to indulge. Or the Â£150-a-time that needs to be factored into the "running" costs.

I don't think I'll ever have a proper 2 car stable (I only have now because the Land Rover counts!) because I'd always want to go out in my "nice" car (fun car) and can't envisage a time when I'd just want to jump into a mediocre one instead. I drive near the limit on trips to the supermarket. Its FUN... :lol:


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## Monique (Jun 11, 2002)

Not a fan of Merc. Rather the BMW or an Audi.

Daily driver hot saloon: the new Audi RS4 with a normally aspirated v10 with 414 HP ... not too sure about HP.

Depreciation proof sport car: a Porsche 993. Last aircooler, still top performance being ten years old (0-60 in 5.2sec), gaining collector status. IMO not a daily driver but again...

Good luck in your search


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## vernan (May 27, 2002)

jampott said:


> ... providing you stop CALLING IT the beast


At least it's not the BeasTT 8)


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Monique said:


> Not a fan of Merc. Rather the BMW or an Audi.
> 
> Daily driver hot saloon: the new Audi RS4 with a normally aspirated v10 with 414 HP ... not too sure about HP.
> 
> ...


The new RS4 is not a V10, it still uses the non turbo V8 (aka S4 & A8's) albeit with this new FSI stuff & more power at around.

I could never justify moving from my current RS6 to the new RS4 as although a nice looking motor, i'd be way down on power, in a smaller car & spec'd up its well over Â£50K which i think is poor value.

Ps. The new RS6 rumoured for production in late 2006/early 2007 is reckoned to have the V10 Lambo engine & pushing out around 550-600BHP


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> You are allowed to keep the beast providing you stop CALLING IT the beast  It has to be the most sensible solution, provided you can work around the high(ish) maintenence costs and increasing lack of warranty... you obviously like it, and have spent a fair amount of effort and money getting it to its current state of tune and handling.
> 
> Maybe what I said rang true... you have to think long and hard about how much driving you'll be doing, and how often you'll need more than 2 people in. What sort of luggage do you need to cart around (knowing you, at least enough boot space for 5 or 6 different aftershaves and several changes of clothes - and that's just to go to the office for the day!) and whether you'll be doing "fun" or motorway miles. Lets not forget how you came down to Hatfield last time, eh?
> 
> If you can safely assume you can use Judith's car for "family" outings, you've a whole raft of cars open to you. Discounting Porsche (who wants one of those, anyway?) there are various interesting options, including the Audi R9, AM V8 or wait a while and get the NEW RS6 with the Lambo engine. Raid the piggy bank and get a Bentley GT...


Point taken. I've driven 10K miles in the 14 months i've owned the RS6, although thats likely to now reach 15-20K miles per annum given i now drive to St Albans / London about once to twice a month & with the other work related trips that can only be managed in the car.

Their are defo some interesting cars on the horizon & the rumoured new RS6 is one i'd like to consider, but it could be 2 years away. Judith may now not be working for that much longer which now raises a new problem as i'd have to fund a new car for her (S4 Cab is my favourite 8) ) so may have to scrap the level of budget i was considering.

My sensible head says keep the RS6, as the biggest depreciation hit has probably been taken already so another 2 years in her should not hit too hard & even things out a little along with some payback on the modifications.

Their are just so many nice cars that have been launched recently & the CLS55 AMG is the closest to the RS6 in terms of functionality & performance, but with the addition of been stunning to look at, more modern, lower running costs & more gadgets.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

vernan said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > ... providing you stop CALLING IT the beast
> ...


Agree - that'd be unbearable... :lol:

Monique's answer for EVERYTHING is always the "last of the aircooled Porsches"...

Person A: I want to buy a new car, what should I get?
Monique: You want a 993 Porker. Last of the air cooled ones. Perfect

Person B: I want to buy a Lambo or Bentley....
Monique: Nah, get yourself a 993 Porker. Last of the air cooled ones. 8)

Person C: What's a good CD player to buy?
Monique: Get a Porsche 993. Last of the blah blah blah

:lol: :lol:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

paulb said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Only point i will make is that i refuse to purchase 2 cars & have the associated running/insurance costs etc. so i'm not looking for a sensible car along with a track day toy, even though in an ideal world, a track toy would be fun.
> ...


Paul,

Given depreciation is a gimme, i rarely factor that into overall running costs, as all cars take fairly chunky hits, look at thow the TT is suffering now. Being truly sensible, i would purchase property & invest for the future for guaranteed returns & just run a normal humble vehicle, but as i'm now settled down with family, a nice car is my only vice remaining 

Don't like the look of the new XK & a the Cayenne soft roader although rapid is too OTT for my liking & would defo put me in Rooney land :lol:

I don't even want to consider what my RS6 has suffered by way of depreciation & if i factored in the Â£10K in modifications over the last 12months, i'd probably slit my wrists.

My issue with running/servicing costs was not the overall cost per year etc. but how sneaky Audi were with changing servicing schedules & required work & what they charge in relation to say a Ferrari 360CS which is about the same cost per service over a 3 year life. I was also a little surprised that the tyres & brake pads had such a short life (6-8K miles) when my previous S8 & both TT's were also driven hard, but could manage closer to 15K miles.

I may have to change my strategy now anyway given that Judith's employment status may be changing as an owned 2nd car would then be needed.

Agree with Tim on the point of track days & track day/weekend cars. I don't have the time to attend more than a couple of these events a year, so a genuine light weight track/fun car would be a total waste of money, i'd rather more than hold my own & track the RS6.

For some strange reason, i've also recently been looking at the 997 in a different light. One of those would save me Â£20K against the cost of the CLS, thus leaving the balance to fund a pleasant car for Judith. I'd shit myself everytime i parked it & turned my back on a 996 C4S over a year ago due to concerns over relaibility & felt i'd need a sensible car to cover the miles.


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## vernan (May 27, 2002)

What about the ltd edition XKR-S.

I don't do old-men Jags, but it's enough to make me soil my pants.

http://www.jaguar.co.uk/uk/en/vehicles/ ... __3Promo_2


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> Lets not forget how you came down to Hatfield last time, eh?


Back in Hatfield on Monday night & i'll be getting the train down again :lol: Staying at Beales (wherever the hell that is) so if you fancy a beer??


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > Lets not forget how you came down to Hatfield last time, eh?
> ...


Beales is just over the roundabout from the Comet. It has a website and looks pretty good. Outside/In bar and restaurant. Q. Nice


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## himpe (Jun 11, 2002)

As i said before, if it was my choice i'd keep the RS6 till the new RS6 comes allong.

With the Sportec package you have one hell of an exclusive car !
Also the look on the ferrari owner's face in your rearview mirror when you pull away is something i would never get bored off


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## Antwerpman (Nov 4, 2002)

Surprised no one has mentioned the maserati quattroporte - very exclusive, 4 useable seats, reasonable boot, certainly different from all the porkers and audi`s


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## David_A (May 7, 2002)

Or the Maserati Gransport - i would if I could just have to get spider instead 

Seconhad Fezza 456 or 575?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

David_A said:


> Or the Maserati Gransport - i would if I could just have to get spider instead
> 
> Seconhad Fezza 456 or 575?


Neither the Maserati or Ferrari's would be safe to use or reliable enough to have as an everyday car. The Ferrari's are a little too ostentatios (sp).


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## David_A (May 7, 2002)

What do you mean safe to use? The newer 4200s and therefore the gransport are fine in teh reliabilty stakes :?


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> Only point i will make is that i refuse to purchase 2 cars & have the associated running/insurance costs etc. so i'm not looking for a sensible car along with a track day toy, even though in an ideal world, a track toy would be fun.


Paul,
Is this your only barrier to going down this route? 
If so, prepare to be surprised. Seriously.

How many miles do you do per annum in the RS6?

How much does a RS6 cost to insure, honestly, for personal AND business usage + depreciation + petrol. Add to that costs of Castle Combe (in terms of mods you made to make it go quicker, tyres and pads)

Tell me a 12 mth old 330d for day to day and something like a Noble (by all accounts a perfectly usable road car as well ie: you can drive it to the track, not be forced to put it on a trailer) for the weekends or any track days wouldn;t be the best option.

You could but BOTH cars for 50-55K and they have BOTH been through the largest part of their depreciation.

How much is a CL55 AMG...?


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

I've lost track as to if you still need 4 doors, or how much you're ceiling price is. And you are going to have access to another 'daily driver' car? If you want another 4wd car with performance/handling to significantly better 'the beast' :roll: I can only think of a Â£100k Lamborghini Gallardo.
If you consider rwd coupes - it would have to be an Aston for me next. For less than Â£70k I'd be playing safe and looking at a high spec (2wd or 4wd) secondhand 911.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

get a mondeo tcdi, call it the 'Mini Beast' and have done with all the crap.

your journey times will be disconcertingly similar, running costs will tumble and there are lots of dealers.

for the 1-2 track days each year you can hire a caterham and still dick a lardy overpowered saloon around majority of circuits. unless outdragging ferraris in straight line is that important.....


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## r1 (Oct 31, 2002)

If you want a high powered saloon then I'd recommend either the RS6, M5 or CLS55.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

David_A said:


> What do you mean safe to use? The newer 4200s and therefore the gransport are fine in teh reliabilty stakes :?


Just don't see them as reliable enough for daily use & dealer/service options are a little limited. No idea where my local Mas dealer would be.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Stu-Oxfordshire said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Only point i will make is that i refuse to purchase 2 cars & have the associated running/insurance costs etc. so i'm not looking for a sensible car along with a track day toy, even though in an ideal world, a track toy would be fun.
> ...


Stu,

As much as i enjoy track driving, i've neither the time or desire to own a sensible car & track day motor. I'd rather combine that into 1 vehicle & reduce the hassle, space & responsibility. Although the maths would work, the hassle factor & time don't work for me. If i bought a Noble or the like, it could end up being a total money pit & no matter how good the Beemer is, i'd miss the fun & performance of a powerful day to day car.

Are you asking the price of a CL AMG or CLS AMG? Would not leave the RS6 for a CL AMG.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> get a mondeo tcdi, call it the 'Mini Beast' and have done with all the crap.
> 
> your journey times will be disconcertingly similar, running costs will tumble and there are lots of dealers.
> 
> for the 1-2 track days each year you can hire a caterham and still dick a lardy overpowered saloon around majority of circuits. unless outdragging ferraris in straight line is that important.....


It aint that lardy you cheeky scamp :wink: & will see most cars off on both track & straight line sprints. Only looking for sensibleish running costs, not a massive reduction. I'd not enjoy driving if my daily drive was a Mondeo diesel. Good cars but i'd end up buying a sprots car & back to square one.


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> It aint that lardy you cheeky scamp :wink: & will see most cars off on both track & straight line sprints.


Up against TTs at Castle Combe it will, for sure.

Take it to a more twisty circuit where there are fast lightweights (Caterfields, Exiges etc) and it will be hopelessly outclassed. Hopelessly. This is fine if your ego can take it. Beware though, one track day on one of the fastest circuits in the country, up against heavy coupes not designed for track use either, does not a great trackday car make.

Don't get me wrong, its a lovely, lovely car, I would love to own it, but it will not compete on a "proper" trackday. (Neither will my Impreza but I can live with that).

As you say though, if you are a one-trackday-per-year man, no point in ponying up for a trackday car, that would be madness. Better to track the <cough> Beast or else hire a Caterham for Â£500.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Carlos said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > It aint that lardy you cheeky scamp :wink: & will see most cars off on both track & straight line sprints.
> ...


Totally agree. I'd not even want to stick the RS6 on a true track day, as i'd not want to shell out crazy money for new replacement tyres & pads, hence why the CC day & The Ring will be fine for the RS6 & The Ring, could be quite interesting. I also don't have anywhere close to the right level of track driving experience to risk putting my own car on a very tight track & up against cars i'd try but probably fail to beat.

The RS6 is happiest on the road & their it's close to unmatched, certainly in its class or price & in its current state of tne & that's where most of her time is spent. Any replacement would need to provide similar levels of enjoyment in the same area, road not track.

My comment about seeing off most cars on track was directed at what i'd position as genuine road cars & not designed/built with more purpose angled at track driving. When the CLS55 AMG was stigged on Top Gear, look at the cars it beat round the test track & given its 100BHP down on mine, the same weight & less traction, i'd be happy to guess that with the right driver (Stig, not me :wink: ) it would post a slightly better time than the CLS & have also seen off some fairly interesting competition.


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

Sounds to me your just making excuses, keep the RS6 and be done with it, then when the new RS6 arrives buy one of these, What with the money you've spent on the Beast it would make sense as the beast does everything you want, as you keep saying :?


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

jonah said:


> Sounds to me your just making excuses, keep the RS6 and be done with it, then when the new RS6 arrives buy one of these, What with the money you've spent on the Beast it would make sense as the beast does everything you want, as you keep saying :?


Exactly.

Granted, 2 years is quite long for you to own a car. Just like 9 months is quite long for me to own a mobile phone. But my current mobile does everything I want - and when I broke it on Saturday, I was dead happy to get a shiny new replacement on Sunday morning. I wasn't thinking "ooh, I wish they'd bring me XYZ different model instead..." - but am perfectly happy to have my "old" one still. Strange for me, as I never normally last anything like the 12 month contract period before getting another phone, let alone before lusting over one...

Just accept you have a really nice car already, and stick with it until something SO much better comes along... (NB the Merc isn't it)


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## CapTT (Mar 2, 2003)

jampott said:


> jonah said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds to me your just making excuses, keep the RS6 and be done with it, then when the new RS6 arrives buy one of these, What with the money you've spent on the Beast it would make sense as the beast does everything you want, as you keep saying :?
> ...


Sums it up pretty well IMHO also. Keep the RS6 until something better comes along because at the moment there isn`t anything. For a true everyday performance car for this country that you can enjoy and use 12 months of the year in all weathers the list is short :

RS4 , RS6 , S4 , Impreza STi , EVO IX , R32 , TT .

So you already sit in arguably the pick of the bunch , continue to sit until a better car arrives on the market. Rear wheel drive is fantastic for the summer or for the track but not realistic all year round so forget about it .


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > get a mondeo tcdi, call it the 'Mini Beast' and have done with all the crap.
> ...


1700kg + is not lardy eh? Discuss. :wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > garyc said:
> ...


Ok, so it's eaten a few pies too many, but its around the right weight for its class. Similar sized Merc's, Audi's, Beemers & various others in the class all weigh in at about 1700-1900kgs. Its considerably larger than say the 3 series, TT's, Evo's, Scoobies & Golfs etc. so has to be a little heavier, plus it has those few extra pots, turbos & of course the horses :wink:

Discussion over :wink:  :wink:


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## gcp (Aug 8, 2002)

Can I reserve comment on this thread until after the 'ring in September when I will have (hopefully) experienced "the beast" from the passenger seat ?

Please don't get rid before then.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

gcp said:


> Can I reserve comment on this thread until after the 'ring in September when I will have (hopefully) experienced "the beast" from the passenger seat ?
> 
> Please don't get rid before then.


No need to worry, it won't be going anywhere before the Ring trip & that may pay a part in the final decision process. You will of course be able to experience the car while we're their.


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

Paul,

OK I think I am getting where you are coming from now....but your reasoning Young Skywalker, for NOT having 2 cars flawed fundamentally is. Let this lie lie for now I will and meantime in the, suggest I shall.....what you need is one of the 2 following cars:

- Stick in the queue for the M5 or....
- Buy a new 997 Carrera S

The M5 came out pretty well in Autocar's test against the new Ferrari 430...it's got superb power and much more dynamic handling than the RS6.

Whilst not equal on the power front with the M5, the new Porker is in my opinion, the best all round car on the road today. Residuals are rock solid (always have been and always will be) and the handling i first class. With the quality of the chassis and the best set of stoppers around, it will also meet expectations if you venture out on track once a year eg: CC or the ring.

That said, if you want a 5 door car, it ain't your pick.


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

Plus Sportec have a full set of modifications for the Porsche that you can p1ss away, er invest your money on :wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Stu-Oxfordshire said:


> Paul,
> 
> OK I think I am getting where you are coming from now....but your reasoning Young Skywalker, for NOT having 2 cars flawed fundamentally is. Let this lie lie for now I will and meantime in the, suggest I shall.....what you need is one of the 2 following cars:
> 
> ...


Valid points although i don't think i'd ever really fancy a 5 door car. I sold my M5 slot last month for a pleasant Â£6K profit   after i drove a demo & was not all that taken with it.

For reference, AutoExpress did a test this week of the M5, CLS55 AMG & Maser Quattroporte (sp) & the M5 won by the smallest margin ahead of the CLS & it only won because it was Â£10K cheaper than the CLS. The Merc was a better drive, better looking & better equipped.

The 997 CS is a defo contender as i'm more drawn to them than i thought i'd be, although i'd still be fearful everytime i parked the car.

My mind is changing overall though, as i've found out i can order from eleswhere & get delivery in September, so if i changed my mind, i would not be able to make the profit on the CLS that i made on the M5


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

After mucho thinking, my order for the CLS55 AMG is being cancelled this week. Found out on Fri that i can order one today from a different dealer & get delivery within 3 months, which means the car is unlikely to be a defo profit maker if i change my mind aka M5 order.

I do love the look of the CLS, more than any other car in that class, but i'm hearing that the new RS6 complete with Lambo V10 is looking likely to be announced in the next 6 months for deliveries commencing around the end of 2006 early 2007 & price expected to be about Â£70K so i'm fairly sure i'll just hang fire with the RS6 until then.

Dealer has noted my interest (1st on the list) for both the new S8 which has been announced internally & will also have the Lambo V10 & the new RS6. The new S8 is a defo according to Audi & the RS6 is 90% likely. Also been looking closely at the 997 & that may replace the RS6 if the new RS6 does not get produced, but right now who knows? 

Thanks everyone for your varied comments, it made interesting reading & some excellent points. The RS6 is staying with me for the forseable future unless i chang emy mind again later this year.


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