# anything else cause misfire / juddering



## whitty (May 17, 2002)

Hi - had the classic coil pack symptoms last Thursday - struggled the car back to the Garage, they diagnosed number4 gone & replaced.
All well again until the car warmed up again (around 10 miles both times) then misfiring / juddery etc

Could this be another failure or could something else cause a misfire etc other than coil pack?

Car is a 99 225 APX

Cheers


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## mattwarner (Apr 2, 2007)

When were the plugs last replaced? I have a full set of coil packs you could try and also live in poole if you want to borrow them? Also have vagcom.


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## was (Mar 24, 2003)

check the wiring that leads into the coil pack connectors, disconnect the connector and carefully check all the wires that lead off it. The wires ofter break through the insulation causing a short circuit before the coil pack gets the trigger. Use some insulation tape to secure any exposed wiring.


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## whitty (May 17, 2002)

Thanks for the offer Matt - I struggled the car to a friends garage - I thought about plugs but they were replaced 10k ago - cheers


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## sarahTT (Nov 25, 2007)

my fella had this problem last friday, he managed to get home then called the AA out to replace them.


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## ttsteve (Nov 1, 2007)

I think it'll be another coilpack failure. I had two go at the same time.


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## cyberdude (May 24, 2002)

I thought the coil packs for the APX engines were pretty robust and it was rare for them to fail. If you've replaced them and still have a problem I'd be inclined to look elsewhere for the fault. I'd definitely look at the wiring as that is a known place of failure and has been well documented.


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## whitty (May 17, 2002)

Just the 1 was replaced - I'm just wondering whether there is a fault on the wiring to the previously failed 1 which mimics the coil failure


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

They could have replaced the wrong one of course :wink:


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## whitty (May 17, 2002)

It did cross my mind - nothing registered as a fault on Vag-Com so not sure how they diagnosed


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## cyberdude (May 24, 2002)

I may be wrong but I didn't think VAG-Com was able to pick up failed coil packs on the early APX TTs mainly because, if I remember correctly, misfires are not registered by the ECU.


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## mattwarner (Apr 2, 2007)

Yeah your right, i brought the full version of vag com as i had the same symptoms as you. Change all 4 coil packs and make sure you use genuine ones!


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

The o2 sensor can give similar symptoms although not seen anyone here report that problem specifically.... this article explains it... its a bit techy :? ........ ok, its very techy :roll: [smiley=book2.gif]


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Hello Irving  I like techy - I'll give it a read.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

There's some good information and thought processes on that site. Making use of the lambda sensor to help diagnose a faulty fuel pump is good.

You can do that if you have VAG-COM and look at the lambda voltage. For the earlier Zirconia lambda sensors they should go high around 0.8V when the mixture is over rich (during acceleration) and low around 0.2V when the mixture is lean on overrun and oxygen is present and fuel is cut off. Normal idling and cruising won't make much sense on VAG-COM due to the sampling rate being too close to the switching rate of a properly functioning closed loop lambda (about two or three times a second).

Back to the problem - when it runs rough does it sound like it's running on three cylinders with lots of regular engine vibration? If it continues to run rough at idle you have a chance to pull off the injector connectors one at a time to see which one makes no difference - that pinpoints which cylinder is faulty. Check if this corresponds with the replaced coil pack

If the problem is more one of cutting out on all four cylinders at once and a jerkey acceleration then you could have severe fuelling or sensor problems or other electrical problems. Does it backfire or pop at all?


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## whitty (May 17, 2002)

It's the juddery 3 cylinder sort of running, hard to accellerate but only once it has warmed up for 10 miles or so - 1st thing it's normally OK (or when it's in the Garage!)
Can't smell any unburnt fuel though - no backfiring or popping
Hopefully the garage will look at it over the next day or so - until then they have lent me a Corsa SRi


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Sounds like a coil pack then, or at least trouble with one cylinder. You can pull off the injector connectors to locate which one.


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## whitty (May 17, 2002)

Seems like it was number 3 coil pack now ! - 2 fail within 3 days of each other & they were originals on a 1999 car
Thanks all - see how this goes


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Hmmm... are we sure they changed the right one? :lol: I can go with another one going soon after but not behaving in the same way - playing up after 10 miles like the original!


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## whitty (May 17, 2002)

I would have thought that would have been quite a coincidence too ! - hope that's now cured it, don't mind too much so long as it's a coil pack rather than something more serious - they were also thinking of my wallet replacing 1 at a time rather than all 4 in 1 go
I'll wait & see - many thanks to all


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## teeky (Oct 26, 2003)

Well Witty, what is the verdict after your last coil pack change? 
I'm suffering from the same problems, lumpy after 10 miles (and stalling on low revs) on a 2000 coupe with original coil packs. If yours is fixed now, I guess I'd better try to identify the faulty pack.


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## MCPaudiTT (Jan 17, 2007)

I had the same symptoms, and though replacing the coil pack "fixed" it for a short while, it came back within a week. It ended up being the spark plugs. The gap was too large, so it quickly degraded the functionality of the coil packs. With new properly gapped plugs, even the "faulty" coil packs worked correctly.


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## whitty (May 17, 2002)

Well no return of the fault in a week so either 2 packs went within days of each other or they did
Cheers to all


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## benyoman (Jun 18, 2011)

Hi all,
Same problem here... will check out this solutions and let you know how I go. 
Thanks heaps for the info! 
Ben


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