# norman



## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Stormin normin no more ,,,,,, how many innocents did he put to the sword for the profit of american industry and international oil companies !!!!! " Well st peter , it was like this. " ........... Yea sure buddy ,,,,,, and his mate Bush sen is on his way out also !!!!!!! Yep ,, HNY...........


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## pas_55 (May 9, 2002)

Top man liberated Kuwait from Iraqi forces only thing he did wrong was stop at the border!!


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Ha ha ,,,,,,,,,, can't believe some people still believe that stuff !!!!!! :?


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## pas_55 (May 9, 2002)

roddy said:


> Ha ha ,,,,,,,,,, can't believe some people still believe that stuff !!!!!! :?


I know but they really did stop at the border


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## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

pas_55 said:


> roddy said:
> 
> 
> > Ha ha ,,,,,,,,,, can't believe some people still believe that stuff !!!!!! :?
> ...


 :lol:


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## ozwigan (Apr 8, 2009)

Friendly fire springs to mind sad time


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Thet didn't stop mate ,, just paused,,,,, all part of the game ,,, ,,,,, remember madam alright ?????? ( Sorry about spelling )


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

roddy said:


> Ha ha ,,,,,,,,,, can't believe some people still believe that stuff !!!!!! :?


No different to the Falklands! Had friends who lived in Kuwait and they were pretty happy to see the allied forces.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## igotone (Mar 10, 2010)

Ah... I'm sensing that misguided belief that if you don't poke any sticks at the playground bully he'll leave you alone.

I don't think Norman put anywhere near as many 'innocents to the sword' as Saddam Hussein and his evil regime did during the years they ruled by terror. You don't have to like the Stormin' Norman's of this world and they're seldom out to win any popularity contests, but thank fluff they come to the fore when they're needed.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Some further research may alter a few mind sets ,,,, who put sadam in power , why , and who told him that it was ok for him to move into Kuwait and that there would be no reaction if he did so ??? ,,,,,,,, it was ok to have him in power when it suited ,,,,, how many countries can we think of , if we wish to , in the world where despots are ruling by distasteful methods ,but either there are no oil or mineral deposits to be stolen or as is more often the case , " we " are already there proping up these despots so that the nations assets can be looted by international conglomorates ,,,,,, backed up by a force of internatal mercineries , paid for by taxpayers , while the multinanional conglomirates fiddle their taxes ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, open up thy eyes


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## igotone (Mar 10, 2010)

Mine eyes are open thank you. I'm not naive enough to believe that some wars aren't driven by the commercial considerations you refer to. However under international law there are pretty strict rules about when you can invade foreign countries - in fact there has to be a valid threat to world peace. Enter Tony Blair and his assertion that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction which were indeed a threat to world peace if it were true. We'll probably never know the real truth but that was the justification for us invading Iraq, but few people would argue against the fact that Saddam was an evil bugger who needed removing anyway.

We stand by and witness genocide in Africa at regular intervals because no-ne can realistically claim a threat to world peace by the the slaughter of the poor sods over there and the law simply doesn't allow military intervention


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

But surely when an " assertion " is exposed as a blatent lie it must surely flag up a few suspicions , at least !!!!


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## igotone (Mar 10, 2010)

roddy said:


> But surely when an " assertion " is exposed as a blatent lie it must surely flag up a few suspicions , at least !!!!


LOL. Of course it's suspicious, but it's not as simplistic as that. We had weapons inspectors out there for ages and for most of the time Saddam was blatantly obstructive to those inspectors carrying out their duties. We'll never know for sure how far Saddam went down the nuclear path and what part the weapons inspections eventually played in possibly thwarting those plans. If Tony Blair did in fact guild the lily it doesn't alter the fact that there were grave concerns about Saddam's nuclear intentions and capability at that time.

It's easy for us to sit back and pick over the remains with the wisdom of hindsight. :wink:


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## Mike007 (Aug 15, 2012)

roddy said:


> Stormin normin no more ,,,,,, how many innocents did he put to the sword for the profit of american industry and international oil companies !!!!! " Well st peter , it was like this. " ........... Yea sure buddy ,,,,,, and his mate Bush sen is on his way out also !!!!!!! Yep ,, HNY...........


Are you mad Roddy. Iraq was at war with Iran for 10 years. At this time Saddam asked Kuwait for financial support. Kuwait agreed. During the 10 year war Kuwait loaned Saddam and Iraq in the region of 15 to 25 BILLION US dollars for Iraqs war machine. When that was all over Iraq INSISTED that Kuwait drop that 25 Billion dollar debt as a good will gesture to Iraq. Obviously Kuwait said "Er no". So Iraq got their arse in their and started building up a hate campaign within Iraq against Kuwait. Saddam then publicly accused Kuwait of stealing Billions of dollors worth of their oil. As Iraq couldn't get their own way they continually accused Kuwait of stealing Iraqi oil. In August 1990 Iraq invaded Kuwait. At this time I was in the British Forces. On the 2nd Jan 1991 I landed in Saudi Arabia with my regiment. A massive British Task force joined up with the American 7th Corp. Once the British and Americans and a few other countries had sorted the skies out, off we went to war. Hundreds of thousands of us. The rest is history. To be honest I think you haven't got a clue what you're on about mate. Once Iraq was inside Kuwait they murdered many families and then stole all their property. The Kuwait people didn't asked for that nor did they deserve it. The day Iraq surrendered I was in Kuwait on the road from Kuwait city to Basra. I saw thousands of destroyed vehicles with many dead iraqs in them. Most of the vehicles were stolen and full of property belonging to the Kuwait people they had murdered. I also saw the massive destruction Iraq had done to Kuwaits entire infrastructure ie electric supply water supply and many oil wells. 
A few simply photos to show I was there, as some members on here can't accept that other members may have been at world events at the time of happening.























































My regiment then travelled into Kuwait city to see the destruction there. The Kuwait people were massively supportive and very happy to us. 
I'm not that stupid to realise that this particular war was driven by the fact that this area of the world has massive oil reserves. I watched in massive frustration when the world stood by when Yugoslavia fell apart and the terrible genocide that took place there. Thousands were murdered, thousands and the world did nothing. 
The fact is though Kuwait has something like a 5th of the worlds oil supply. You can't have a mad man like Saddam holding the world to ransom. 
Stormin Normin was a brilliant General. He looked after his troops massively. He also tried to minimise civilian casualties although in war this isnt always possible. British and American forces serve the government of the day without question. No one can put any blame on him for the events of the first Gulf war. He was a General and he served his country with outstanding bravery (Think you'll find he fought in Vietnam) and consideration.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Are you insinuating that fighting in vietnam is some sort of babge of honour !!!!!! Is it not a bit hypocritical to condemn the iraqi troops for their deeds when your own british army have a despicable history of their own throughout the histort of their " campaigns " !!!!! All armies commit atrocities ,,,,, sorry , but I am not interested nor impressed by the pictures of you and the others involved in the turkey shoot !!!!!! Regarding the moneys given to Iraq during their war on Iran ,,,, I think maybe some further research on just exactly where that money came from ,,,,,, as you say mate ,,, it is not a simplistic situation !!!!!!


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## Mike007 (Aug 15, 2012)

roddy said:


> Are you insinuating that fighting in vietnam is some sort of babge of honour !!!!!! Is it not a bit hypocritical to condemn the iraqi troops for their deeds when your own british army have a despicable history of their own throughout the histort of their " campaigns " !!!!! All armies commit atrocities ,,,,, sorry , but I am not interested nor impressed by the pictures of you and the others involved in the turkey shoot !!!!!! Regarding the moneys given to Iraq during their war on Iran ,,,, I think maybe some further research on just exactly where that money came from ,,,,,, as you say mate ,,, it is not a simplistic situation !!!!!!


Christ. Next you'll be slagging off the Romans.

Read up on it. So you're saying that Kuwait didn't loan Iraq any money. Haha. Wake up. You're just looking for an argument.


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## Mike007 (Aug 15, 2012)

Makes sense now. Peterhead. Australia? Another jealous pomey hater. Lol 

You're just fed up and bored cos you got no history over there. Haha


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## pas_55 (May 9, 2002)

roddy you still on the lash from Xmas?


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## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

roddy said:


> Are you insinuating that fighting in vietnam is some sort of babge of honour !!!!!! Is it not a bit hypocritical to condemn the iraqi troops for their deeds when your own british army have a despicable history of their own throughout the histort of their " campaigns " !!!!! All armies commit atrocities ,,,,, sorry , but I am not interested nor impressed by the pictures of you and the others involved in the turkey shoot !!!!!! Regarding the moneys given to Iraq during their war on Iran ,,,, I think maybe some further research on just exactly where that money came from ,,,,,, as you say mate ,,, it is not a simplistic situation !!!!!!


I'm am guessing then you would rather the iraquis had been allowed to run amok killing and looting as they were? Plenty of Ausi troops fought in all of the earlier campaigns you mentioned too (from a British perspective we are eternally grateful for their sacrafice); but no doubt they were not without blame or shame - it's war, thats what happens. I for one was impressed to hear the story from someone who was actaully there and I for one am proud of them (not the hierarchy, not the politics, but them) that these guys are prepaerd to do what is neccessary when the likes of you and I and everyone sit in judgement on the sielines. Its a bit like me accussing all Ausi;s of being the off spring of British mongrels sent over there for one crime or another = it wouldnt be true, it would only be my opinion, but would be offensive. So I suggest you take a little more care and maybe speak with a little more respect to someone who had the balls to be there, turkey shoot or not; cos those same guys are coming home regularly in Body Bags at the moment and most over here think they are pretty brave guys, even if you don't.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Ok ok . Maybe I still have some of the festive " spirit " in me ,,,,, but I don't get what is so heroic about geting involved in a human Turkey shoot , or what is so comendable about being prepared to shoot at , or bomb from 7 miles above , onto people when you do not even know are right or wrong !!!!!! Hic Hic !!!!!!


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

fook me Roddy and i thought i was controversial at times.......you attack the british army???? damm brother that is big balls time lol. ya on ya own in this one as i love our forces be it police or our army navy or airforce.


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## Mike007 (Aug 15, 2012)

roddy said:


> Ok ok . Maybe I still have some of the festive " spirit " in me ,,,,, but I don't get what is so heroic about geting involved in a human Turkey shoot , or what is so comendable about being prepared to shoot at , or bomb from 7 miles above , onto people when you do not even know are right or wrong !!!!!! Hic Hic !!!!!!


It wasn't all from 7 miles above as you put. There was plenty of infantry battles too. I saw many tank battles which were at close range. Lets not forget the British and Aussie SAS who also did some massively dangerous stuff. Many soldiers saw the face of the men they killed. We need to remember its the government who give the ok for war and the military carry out those orders. War is terrible mate. If I could I would wave a magic wand and stop all wars. Sadly us humans are very destructive. Sometimes war seems to be the only answer to sort something out. The Arabs cut the heads off our soldiers whilst they're still alive if captured. The British pay the enemy 14 million pounds in compensation for aggressive interrogation. That's how it is right or wrong. All sad facts of life. Happy new year anyway.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Thanks nate , and a HNY to you also ,,,,,,,, but to be honest mate , if you don't even know where peterhead is. Then the march to bagdad must have been even easioer than I had suspected !!!!!!!


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## Fab 4 TT (Sep 28, 2004)

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2012/12/wbap_announces_death_of_george.php

Says he's still alive?


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## pas_55 (May 9, 2002)

roddy said:


> Thanks nate , and a HNY to you also ,,,,,,,, but to be honest mate , if you don't even know where peterhead is. Then the march to bagdad must have been even easioer than I had suspected !!!!!!!


Mate please check your facts Norman never went onto Bagdad hence my quote they stopped at the border.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Mike007 said:


> roddy said:
> 
> 
> > Ok ok . Maybe I still have some of the festive " spirit " in me ,,,,, but I don't get what is so heroic about geting involved in a human Turkey shoot , or what is so comendable about being prepared to shoot at , or bomb from 7 miles above , onto people when you do not even know are right or wrong !!!!!! Hic Hic !!!!!!
> ...


Had friends in 2 para that were in goose green, so I assume you chewed the same dirt mike?


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## Mike007 (Aug 15, 2012)

Gazzer said:


> Mike007 said:
> 
> 
> > roddy said:
> ...


I joined the Army in 79 mate. Was on standby to go to the Falklands but we sorted them out quicker than expected so I never went in 82. Went in 92 though. 
I was massively proud to be in the Army. Left in 93. Our boys did a fantastic job in the Falklands. Went to Crossmaglen in 86 in South Armagh. What an eye opener that was. 
I'm hugely proud of what British forces are doing these days. Afghan is such a tough place to be. But speaking to lots of people who have been there say they love it.Thats their bread and butter. We have the best armed forces in the world IMO.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Gazzer said:


> fook me Roddy and i thought i was controversial at times.......you attack the british army???? damm brother that is big balls time lol. ya on ya own in this one as i love our forces be it police or our army navy or airforce.


Now that matey is where we differ. I have no respect for those who have rampaged all over the world looting and stealing for the benefit of the " haves " of their country, be it from the so called crusades which were nothing more than the wholesale theft of gold spices silks rubber tea etc etc to the modern day securing of oil and mineral resources, with total disregard and disrespect for local populations ,whilst waving their " butchers apron " on high ,,,,, while at home are prepared to be used by the establishment to keep the " have nots " firmly in their place.,,,, ironically most of these hired guns come from the " have not " sections of our society !!! 
Good night all .........


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

There are several Gulf War (I and II) veterans on these boards and I for one still can't see what we all steamed into Kuwait for, let alone Iraq a decade later. Oil, obviously, however if you look at the death tolls, Saddam Hussein looks like a pussycat compared to George W Bush and Tony Blair. Iraq is still a mess and I don't see anyone lifting any security restrictions at airports because we 'secured' Iraq or Afghanistan.

It is absolutely imperative that you separate the actual people in the forces from the people who order them into conflict situations. Lions led by Donkeys was true in WWI and it's still true today. General Schwarzkopf's plan of battle was a masterpiece in the crushing use of airpower (shock and awe was coined for this campaign iirc) then Blitzkrieg tactics (remember how they had to extract the French Foreign Legionaries from Iraq because no-one told them to stop at the border?). We tend to forget that the better units were never brought to battle (the Republican Guard armoured divisions had the only modern tanks in the Iraqi arsenal and they never made contact with coalition forces) and that most of the Iraqi troops that looted Kuwait city were dirt poor, illiterate and were just taking whatever they could as fast as they could because all discipline had gone. We also tend to forget the propaganda we were fed from Kuwait (remember the babies being pulled out of incubators in Kuwaiti hospitals that turned out to be completely made up etc. etc.)

How highly you rate General Schwartzkopf doubtless varies with your proximity to the Persian Gulf in the early 1990's but I think history will remember him pretty well. Likewise, George Bush Snr. realised that if he took out Saddam Hussein there would be a massive power vacuum in the Middle East so he was left in power. George W. Bush apparently didn't share his father's wisdom and he did the easy bit (toppling Saddam) easily enough, but they lost the peace AGAIN.

There really should be a lesson there somewhere.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

So many things i'd like to say, but won't..


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## Mike007 (Aug 15, 2012)

wja96 said:


> There are several Gulf War (I and II) veterans on these boards and I for one still can't see what we all steamed into Kuwait for, let alone Iraq a decade later. Oil, obviously, however if you look at the death tolls, Saddam Hussein looks like a pussycat compared to George W Bush and Tony Blair. Iraq is still a mess and I don't see anyone lifting any security restrictions at airports because we 'secured' Iraq or Afghanistan.
> 
> It is absolutely imperative that you separate the actual people in the forces from the people who order them into conflict situations. Lions led by Donkeys was true in WWI and it's still true today. General Schwarzkopf's plan of battle was a masterpiece in the crushing use of airpower (shock and awe was coined for this campaign iirc) then Blitzkrieg tactics (remember how they had to extract the French Foreign Legionaries from Iraq because no-one told them to stop at the border?). We tend to forget that the better units were never brought to battle (the Republican Guard armoured divisions had the only modern tanks in the Iraqi arsenal and they never made contact with coalition forces) and that most of the Iraqi troops that looted Kuwait city were dirt poor, illiterate and were just taking whatever they could as fast as they could because all discipline had gone. We also tend to forget the propaganda we were fed from Kuwait (remember the babies being pulled out of incubators in Kuwaiti hospitals that turned out to be completely made up etc. etc.)
> 
> ...


Very very well put. Love that saying "Lions led by Donkeys". Just one thing though mate. You touched on the republican guard. You mention that they didn't come into contact with coalitions forces. 
As I mentioned my unit was all part of the American 7th Corp which consisted of thousands of men and eqiupment. The 7th Corp confronted a 15 thousand strong Republican Guard. As you rightly say Iraqs elite forces. They refused to surrender. Long story short the 7th Corp attacked them and they were all defeated within a few hours. Shortly after that Iraq surrendered.


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## Mike007 (Aug 15, 2012)

Have a read of this. It talks about the American V11 (7th) Corp and the tank battles with the republican guard. My unit was in that lot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Guard_(Iraq)

Between the invasion of Kuwait and the Gulf War, the number of Republican Guard formations was expanded and the Guard was reorganized. The Republican Guard Forces Command was also created during this period. At the beginning of the Gulf War, it consisted of the following units:[citation needed]
1st Republican Guard Corps, deployed in southern Iraq and northern Kuwait, consisted of:
1st "Hammurabi" Armoured Division
2nd "al-Medinah al-Munawera" Armoured Division
3rd "Tawakalna ala-Allah" Mechanized Division
4th "Al Faw" Mechanized Division
2d Republican Guard Corps deployed south of Baghdad consisted of:
6th "Nebuchadnezzar" Motorized Division
7th "Adnan" Motorized Division
Deployed outside of the corps structure were various other units including:
5th "Baghdad" Mechanized Division - a square division with four brigades based in and around Baghdad. This unit could be divided to form two half-divisions.
8th "As Saiqa" Special Forces Division - contained a Marine Brigade, an parachute brigade, and a Special Forces Brigade. The Marine Brigade was deployed on Kuwait's nine islands, all of which with the exception of Failaka Island are uninhabited. The Brigade was headquartered on Bubiyan Island
The Republican Guard also included two Corps Headquarters, the Allah Akbar Republican Guard Operations Command", and the "Fat'h al-Mubayyin Republican Guard Operations Command," separate artillery detachments, numerous field support units, and as many as 20 special forces brigades. Between the invasion of Kuwait and the start of the war on January 17, 1991, four more RGFC internal security divisions had been formed which remained behind in Iraq. All of these units were motorized infantry. The names of only three of them were identified: the Al-Abed, Al-Mustafa ('The Elect'), and Al-Nida Divisions ('The Call'). They may have conducted operations against Kurdish forces in the north.
During the Gulf War, the U.S. VII Corps assembled in full strength and launched an armoured attack into Iraq early Sunday, February 24, just to the west of Kuwait, taking Iraqi forces by surprise. Simultaneously, the U.S. XVIII Airborne Corps launched a sweeping "left-hook" attack across the largely undefended desert of southern Iraq, led by the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment and the 24th Infantry Division (Mechanized). Once the allies had penetrated deep into Iraqi territory, they turned eastward, launching a flank attack against the Republican Guard.
Both sides exchanged fire, but the Republican guard divisions, worn down by weeks of aerial bombardment, proved unable to withstand the Allied advance. Tank battles, including the Battle of Medina Ridge and the Battle of 73 Easting, flared as the Republican Guard attempted to retreat. The Allies won with minimal losses while inflicting heavy losses on the Iraqi Army.
[edit]


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

I can not see any connection between conscripted soldiers from the second world war and the mercinaries of today ,,,,,, or exactly how much of a lion you have to be to take part in an invasion of a country where you have massively superior armiments resources supplies manpower intelligence etc etc ,,,,,,,,,,,,, without the mercineries ( tigers ????? ) The donkeys, politicians helped by popular media propoganda,,,would not be able to do the biding of the oil companies and bankers ,,,,,,,,, in the words of the famous song " he's the universal soldier and he really is to blame, without him all this killing can't go on , he's the one who decide who's to live and who's to die , and he will never see the writing on the wall """"
And someone said something about interantial law ,,,, what ?????? If you remember correctly there was no second UN ( see USA )mandate so even acording to their own laws the invasion was illegal !!!!!!!!! Huh !!!!!


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## Mike007 (Aug 15, 2012)

roddy said:


> I can not see any connection between conscripted soldiers from the second world war and the mercinaries of today ,,,,,, or exactly how much of a lion you have to be to take part in an invasion of a country where you have massively superior armiments resources supplies manpower intelligence etc etc ,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> Haha. Roddy your threads gets weaker and weaker. You are pants at playing troll. Your above statement is so funny. Tell that to the 4000 Kurds that Saddam poisoned. Oh of course they were just as superior as Saddams mighty 1 million strong Armed forces. Sorry i forgot about that. Yeah seems equal to gas women and Children.
> No wonder the allies beat Iraq into submission. I didn't realise they used second world war conscript soldiers. No thats easy, they must have been 70 years old.
> When Iraq went into Kuwait course the Kuwait's were just as superior. Course they were. Perhaps you should do a bit of this [smiley=book2.gif] cos your attempts to troll are just not working me old pal :roll:


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Mike007 said:


> roddy said:
> 
> 
> > I can not see any connection between conscripted soldiers from the second world war and the mercinaries of today ,,,,,, or exactly how much of a lion you have to be to take part in an invasion of a country where you have massively superior armiments resources supplies manpower intelligence etc etc ,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> ...


Ha ha , I am not so sure what you mean about " playing troll " !!!! but regarding the securing of mid east oil fields ,,, sorry were you calling that a war ( ??? ) Maybe you should think / look outside the box and realise that we do not all view things throo the sights of a rifle !!!!!!


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## Mike007 (Aug 15, 2012)

Yet again Roddy fails to mention the murder of the Kurds and the superior Army of Iraq compared to Kuwait. As I keep saying. You're just looking for a row but your substance to this discussion is empty.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Mike007 said:


> Yet again Roddy fails to mention the murder of the Kurds and the s of Kurds
> 
> , yes your concern for those people is admirable. , but I see no reference to the marsh arabs who your " donkeys " set up and then abondoned to a similar fate ,,,,,,,actually I think all of you argument points have been discredited by either myself or another poster ,,,,,if you continualy fail / refuse to address the main issue and continue to focus on certain aspects then I am afraid you will never see the whole picture,,,,,


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## igotone (Mar 10, 2010)

Roddy, you sound like a typical conscientious objector/pacifist. Noble sentiments mate, and the world would undoubtedly be a better place if everyone was of the same persuasion, but the reality is that the people of your mindset lie down in front of the oppressors. Pour all the scorn you like on the 'universal soldiers' but they defend our freedom, and we need them, however much it may offend your sensibilities. War is a terrible thing and inevitably innocents suffer in these conflicts. We inflict our share of collateral damage, but the difference is we really do try our damnedest not to.

When I retired I had the opportunity to go to Bosnia with the War Crimes Commission investigating the horrendous cold blooded genocide carried out there, and I'd have loved it, but unfortunately the missus made it quite clear she wasn't having it.

When you've finished your self righteous postulating all you're doing is criticising but providing no meaningful alternative remedies other than doing nothing at all.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

No mate , I am not a consiensous objector , quite the oposite, and I have supported many struggles for freedom when the british army , and others , have tried all bloody methods to supress indiginous peoples ,,,,,, but you say I offer no solutions ,, well I will end my input here with one simple solution ,,,,,,,, " do not believe one single word that the american or british defence department say , they are the paid guns of international bankers and oil companies ,,,,,,,


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## igotone (Mar 10, 2010)

Stoppit - you should have got over Culloden by now. :wink:


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## Randomgary (Jan 13, 2013)

Well I never imagined Galloway would be a TT enthusiast!

Think we have found the one member of the Dave Icke forums!

I'm off to check our currency for secret maps to find the lost grail!


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Randomgary said:


> Well I never imagined Galloway would be a TT enthusiast!
> 
> Think we have found the one member of the Dave Icke forums!
> 
> I'm off to check our currency for secret maps to find the lost grail!


Well whatever you are looking for you will not find it while you have got your head in the sand


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## Randomgary (Jan 13, 2013)

Ahh so i have to be looking for something

Interesting way of putting it. I suppose if you read enough info, ignore the parts that do not support what your looking for, and get expert opinions from interesting professionals (again ignoring all other opinions) then yes!


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Randomgary said:


> Ahh so i have to be looking for something
> 
> Interesting way of putting it. I suppose if you read enough info, ignore the parts that do not support what your looking for, and get expert opinions from interesting professionals (again ignoring all other opinions) then yes!


Exactly mate , I could not have put it better myself ...( But I could elaborate )


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

to fully understand a situation one must wear both pairs of shoes first..........then and only then can you give an informed opinion on the facts. have just re-read the whole topic and roddy, you need to look deeper into it maybe as the iraqi war wasn't all one sided or even on the same ball park in relation to attrocaties commited. btw what we call attrocaties and they call attrocaties are different ball parks m8. they cut your hands arms off for breaking a basic rule......we give you a £30 fine.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

I know sadam did dreadful things , I don't think anyone will dispute that , but do not forget who put him in power and why , just as BP , under the guise of uK gov have been dictating who is in power in that region , used to be persia , for the last 180 odd years ,,, and, for purposes of this discusion , I will not doubt the honourable intentions of the US / UK mercinaries , but it is a bit strange that " noble " as these pawns maybe their real masters don't give a shit about the iraqi people or anybody else . If the illegal invasion of that country was in any way justifiable then why was the whole campaigne underpined by a massive lie ???? ,,,,,,, if you want to address the cutting off of hand heads stoning etc , then look no further than saudi arabia , a state created by and maintained by US / UK interests.


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## Randomgary (Jan 13, 2013)

I am not motivated by money. I am taught and I teach others to refuse any unlawfull order. I have no problem thinking for myself and I sleep with an easy mind knowing that anything I've done in my career has been done for others ( mainly my pals) and not for myself.

I am a soldier. I'm not bigging it up, but I know 90% of people sign up to be a part of something good, to help! Hopefully the other 10% are weeded out in the selection process.

Out of interest what have you done to change things or are you one of those that moans and groans yet does nothing?


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Randomgary said:


> I am not motivated by money. I am taught and I teach others to refuse any unlawfull order. I have no problem thinking for myself and I sleep with an easy mind knowing that anything I've done in my career has been done for others ( mainly my pals) and not for myself.
> 
> I am a soldier. I'm not bigging it up, but I know 90% of people sign up to be a part of something good, to help! Hopefully the other 10% are weeded out in the selection process.
> 
> Out of interest what have you done to change things or are you one of those that moans and groans yet does nothing?


Instead of trying to divert the issue , are you disputing anything that I have said ,,,,, eg , who put sadam n power , who maintained him , who dicates politics in the mid east , was there a lie ,etc etc , what about the marsh arabs !!!! No


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## Randomgary (Jan 13, 2013)

Me divert the issue? Remind me how this thread started? Did Norman place him in power? Did Norman maintain him? Did Norman dictate politics in the Middle East?

History is full of nations manipulating others for their own benifit. Wouldn't the world be an amazing place without conflict?

But here we are, we don't know each other but we are having our own wee dispute! It's human nature and your part if it.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

" History is full of nations manipulating ( and exploiting ) othhers for their own benefit " , nothing has changed there then ,ok so we are geting a we bit nearer the truth now , good old fashioned imperialistic looting and pillaging , ,so let's not put some moralistic slant on it. ..or that the perpitrators are some sort of heros !


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## Randomgary (Jan 13, 2013)

Ahh I get it!

Missus being hammered in the local garrison!

Ps those nurses are bitches! Making all those healthy folk ill just so they can keep their jobs. And firemen, you only see them working where there are fires or crashes. If you ask me they cause them.

Personally I can't wait to go looting and pillaging cause that's what every squaddie does when they head off over seas.

Finally how's that 225 of your on fuel? I hope you enquire where it came from before you insert that nozzle.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

OK OK . The next time I am filling up I will thank the nearest squaddie for the most expensive fuel in europe :?


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## Randomgary (Jan 13, 2013)

Yup that was defiantly the squaddies!

You show them the lesson by driving a car that uses a lot of fuel! That'll teach them.

You keep up the good work. Your defiantly making a difference!


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Randomgary said:


> Yup that was defiantly the squaddies!
> 
> You show them the lesson by driving a car that uses a lot of fuel! That'll teach them.
> 
> You keep up the good work. Your defiantly making a difference!


Well you see , I don't really claim to be makig a difference , I leave that up to the squaddies who think that they liberated the good people of Iraq ,,,,, :? What's the latest estimate , half million dead , cival war , racial and sectarian feuding , most christians have had to flee , safe havens for various " terrorist " organisations ,etc etc ,, yea you did a great job "over there " :? You don't have much of an argument so I expect the old method of personal insult will be next ,,,


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## Randomgary (Jan 13, 2013)

None of the above happened before we arrived did it?

It was nice for abit out there when we first arrived, but if the people want violence and sectarian hatred then there's not a lot we can do!


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

I can only asume that " nice " is being used as a subjective adjective :x


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## Randomgary (Jan 13, 2013)

No, there was genuinely a period of relief from the nation that the bad man was gone. It just didn't last like some had wished.


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## igotone (Mar 10, 2010)

Randomgary said:


> No, there was genuinely a period of relief from the nation that the bad man was gone. It just didn't last like some had wished.


That part of the world just has a way of throwing up a new tyrant as soon as the old one disappears. Much as we'd like them to embrace a true democratic system I don't really see it happening any time soon.

I well remember the jubilation with which allied troops were greeted when Saddam was toppled, but how quickly we became the resented intruders, and this happens time and time again.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Bomb them all off face of the earth, problem over!!


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

OMG ,,, but they have been doing that for the last ten years ,, it seems the more they bomb them the closer they are getTing !!!when will we learn , when they are stepping off the ferry ! Help ma boab


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