# PM Function rights withdrawn



## Smoke (Aug 30, 2011)

I had the ability to send and receive pm's but as of late these rights have been suspended on my account.

Is this possible to rectify, I need to communicate with some of the members urgently?

Regards


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## Ikon66 (Sep 12, 2003)

Rules were changed recently and you have too lower post count. Either up your posts or join the TTOC


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Whats the new "number" of posts people need to attain to be able to pm?
Why does membership of TTOC matter?


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## Smoke (Aug 30, 2011)

Toshiba said:


> Whats the new "number" of posts people need to attain to be able to pm?
> Why does membership of TTOC matter?


+1


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## RazMan (Aug 28, 2012)

I vaguely recall being given PM privileges after about 30-40 posts - I might be wrong though


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## Ikon66 (Sep 12, 2003)

Smoke said:


> Toshiba said:
> 
> 
> > Whats the new "number" of posts people need to attain to be able to pm?
> ...


Number is undisclosed and membership of the ttoc gives users full access, what's not to understand? :?


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

If you join a board you'd expect to have equal "functionality", given the only reason to join a board is to communicate with other members to share/receive information. Stopping one method of communication is dropping one of the benefit or privilege of membership - this just seems counter productive to the members of the forum. Why no have a vote and see what the members want?

Hence the bottom question why does TTOC make a difference? 
its like saying you need to buy yourself a disney fast pass for full use of the forum.

I can only guess its to do with revenue, or stopping people messaging others to sell/buy goods and or spam.
Its not like 50 posts is a warranty that someone one not still try to rip you off (which seems to be a problem from time to time, be that could be due to miss understandings or financial problems :roll: ), hence why i see it as pointless.


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## Ikon66 (Sep 12, 2003)

I really don't know why you are dragging this up Kev, it's been common knowledge for months now as well you know!!!!



Toshiba said:


> If you join a board you'd expect to have equal "functionality", given the only reason to join a board is to communicate with other members to share/receive information. Stopping one method of communication is dropping one of the benefit or privilege of membership - this just seems counter productive to the members of the forum. Why no have a vote and see what the members want?
> 
> Hence the bottom question why does TTOC make a difference?
> its like saying you need to buy yourself a disney fast pass for full use of the forum.
> ...


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

The idea was that if you were a TTOC member we would have full details of you address and such like . I don't like this idea as it makes the club out to be money grabbing b*******s and there are legal problems.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Ikon66 said:


> I really don't know why you are dragging this up Kev, it's been common knowledge for months now as well you know!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


its just a question, ultimately it doesn't really impact me - but its not a coup d'etat attempt or anything.
I guess i just don't like the disparity and when have i ever not spoke my mind? [smiley=gossip.gif]



Wallsendmag said:


> The idea was that if you were a TTOC member we would have full details of you address and such like . I don't like this idea as it makes the club out to be money grabbing b*******s and there are legal problems.


Cheers, that adds a little colour to the picture.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Toshiba said:


> Why no have a vote and see what the members want?


We had a vote earlier in the year and the current sustem is what the members asked for. Did you miss it?


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

And here's the free vote, open to all, where the community decided:

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=287293

TTOC members are simply a lower risk to the community because their identity (real name and address and banking details) are all confirmed - unlike TT Forum only members who only confirm their email. Given the full disclosure of real identity why not trust them? In the event of fraud their details can be supplied to the police. There is no legal problem with this.

TT forum only members have to post for a while and join in with the forum community to get themselves known. During this introductory process PM rights will be granted. This delay of PM rights provides a major disincentive to casual scammers who instead go onto other forums where PM access is instant.

It was the instant PM access which scammers were using to run scams. This system has largely stopped it.

It has caught out a very small number of established members with low post counts, who previously had PM access before the site security was increased but if they have posted enough to appear to be a genuine member then they too will be given full access. I suggest you try again Smoke :wink:


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

John, you still seem to not understand the difference between supplying something and having it officially requested from you. We simply cannot just supply details of one of our members to anyone, not even the police, just because a problem has arisen. The only time we can divulge any of the membership details is if an official body of power makes a request for the details in accordance to the data protection act.

So in relation to a scammer on this forum it may never get to the point where the police investigate to the extent where they need or want these details so the extra protection of having a TTOC members information on file in this case is somewhat worthless.

This is why after long discussions were are in the process of removing this extra access as a membership benefit, also trying to redress the balance of how the club is perceived to simply take money for access which is not the case and is simply damaging the clubs good standing.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

You are missing the point Nick. The fact the TTOC members have given their real personal identifying details, which can also legally be disclosed to law enforcement agencies under the Data Protection Act upon request (there is a specific exemption for this purpose) means that they can not rely on those details remaining undisclosed should they commit fraud and should those details be requested. They are therefore less likely to commit frauds which rely on anonymity such as hiding behind disposable email addresses.

The second point I'd make is that this forum community voted for this policy and it is not within the TTOC's remit or authority to unilaterally withdraw, which would go against this community's decision.

Thirdly, given this forum's continuing increase in popularity and the TTOC also having more members now than ever before, I question why you and Andrew are so keen on rocking the boat and changing this?


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## ozwigan (Apr 8, 2009)

A scam within a scam maybe you decide


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Nick, John is quite right - the forum is legally entitled to disclose all information it holds to the police in the case of an investigation into alleged fraud. In fact it is obliged to do so. Therefore, the extra identification and financial details that the TTOC holds on its members does indeed provide extra protection to TTF members when it comes to transactions conducted through the forum.

I for one would feel far more comfortable dealing with a TTOC member on here than someone who was not, simply because I know there is information available that could trace them. For that reason alone I think giving advanced access to the marketplace is more than justified.

By opening it up I think you'd be doing a dis-service to the membership. The issue is not how the rules stand, but a failure to properly explain to people why things are as they are. There may be a limited perception that it's the TTOC using it as an excuse to make money but we all know in reality that simply isn't the case. We know the rules exist to protect people - we just need to put that message out better. And as John has pointed out, the current arrangements are what the membership voted for. Just what do you think gives you the right to change that? The TTF is not the TTOC and it's not within the power of the TTOC committee to make these decisions.


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

I'll just keep my mouth shut, my thoughts to myself and sit on my hands then for John has spoken.

All hail John.


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

John-H said:


> The second point I'd make is that this forum community voted for this policy and it is not within the TTOC's remit or authority to unilaterally withdraw, which would go against this community's decision.
> 
> Thirdly, given this forum's continuing increase in popularity and the TTOC also having more members now than ever before, I question why you and Andrew are so keen on rocking the boat and changing this?


I don't know enough about the rules governing disclosure of personal details iaw the Data Protection Act so I cannot comment on that point.

However I strongly disagree with any assertion that a vote held on a public forum where non TTOC members could vote is or can be in any way binding on the TTOC in what member benefits are offered: or any other club business for that matter. The TTOC committee and members are the only people permitted to have a say in that and can add or subtract from the member benefits as they see fit - that's one of the benefits of membership!
I haven't seen any longer term members complaining against the expanded access to on-line copies of absoluTTe.



Nem said:


> This is why after long discussions were are in the process of removing this extra access as a membership benefit, also trying to redress the balance of how the club is perceived to simply take money for access which is not the case and is simply damaging the clubs good standing.


Good; and about time too. I have always wondered how many have signed up for membership simply to gain access to the Marketplace as opposed to signing up to gain access to the TTOC and all that it offers as a club for enthusiasts of the marque. Certainly the presentation of the "join the TTOC" option, in some cases, where people answer the oft asked question "I can't see the Marketplace/send PMs" does feel somewhat heavy handed.

The TTF rule that people cannot see the Marketplace or send PMs until they have reached the minimum post count must remain.


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