# Clutch Bleeding



## JonHC (May 27, 2014)

Hi all,

Done a lot of searching here for an answer to my clutch bleeding problems on my Mk1 TT but can't find an answer. I've replaced my master clutch cylinder and after many attempts and different ways of doing it, I've managed to get all the air out of the clutch system, at least I'm pretty sure I have. I ended up fitting some clear tubing to the bleed nipple and submersing the other end into the reservoir and then pumping the clutch until all the air bubbles in the tube had gone and there was just a clear line of fluid (keeping the reservoir topped up at all times). The problem I have is that the clutch pedal still stays at the floor when I depress it. I've tried the 'bleeder open, pedal down, bleeder closed, pedal up' method but can't get any pressure. I didn't bench bleed/prime the master cylinder but surely if the fluid is running thought the system then it's ok?

First time I've done anything like this, I didn't want to take it to a garage because I don't trust them and I also want to learn more about my car. So if anyone can tell me what I'm doing wrong and give me some advice that would be great. I haven't started pulling my hair out yet but there's still time!


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, By putting the tube back into the reservoir you are filling the Brake & clutch system with aerated fluid. 
If you are sure the prob was the M/C & not the slave, then you will have to start again & pump alot of fresh fluid through system again & into a seperate container & not use that fluid again. 
Hopefully you haven't got any air into the brake ABS system. 
Hoggy.


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

I back bleed them with a 60-100ml syringe through the bleed nipple....

You need to keep the clutch pedal in the up position to do this to allow the passing of the fluid

Cable ties around the pedal to steering wheel would do if you're doing this alone or have someone help hold the pedal up in the upper level

Then get syringe with a clear hose connected and pull some fluid into syringe until you have a more or less full syringe

Put your ring spanner on bleed nipple first then the hose

Open nipple slightly and start pushing fluid through until you have nearly emptied syringe and then tighten bleed nipple

Notes: make sure before you bleed that the level in the reservoir is just below the clutch feed outlet as this will stop you overflowing reservoir with what you're about to push through

Daz


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## JonHC (May 27, 2014)

Thanks Hoggy, definitely the master cylinder, it was leaking into the footwell. I was having to press the pedal further and further to the floor to change gear to the point I couldn't get it into reverse or first gear. I used that method of bleeding after reading a post elsewhere but I understand what you're saying about aerated fluid. It was definitely easier to change the cylinder than do this!


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## JonHC (May 27, 2014)

Thanks Daz. Funnily enough, I actually ordered a 100ml syringe tonight on eBay with tubing. I've seen that method of bleeding on a YouTube video so I'll probably give that a go. So frustrating, car's been off the road over a week now and I just want to drive it again!

So, if I use the back bleeding method and I replaced the fluid in the clutch system, is there anything else I need to do to get the pedal under pressure or should that be it?


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

That's it dude......we get our syringes from a hydroponics shop now since the local vet stopped us having them...

The hydroponic shop has the hose too..

Daz


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## JonHC (May 27, 2014)

Cool, thanks Daz.


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## JonHC (May 27, 2014)

Ok, I've followed the advice here and I've reverse bled the clutch. I removed some fluid from the reservoir and pumped new fluid via the bleed nipple which filled the reservoir. I tried the clutch pedal and felt some resistance which faded away after a few more pumps of the pedal and ended up with no pressure at all. Reservoir hasn't gone down but I've noticed that the new master clutch cylinder is leaking ever so slightly where the bar moves in and out. Is this likely the reason why I can't get pressure? Obviously even if it isn't, I still have to replace it but I just want to eliminate possible causes. Also, Daz, you mentioned the pedal must be in the up position and needs holding up with cable ties or getting someone to hold it. My pedal stays up anyway because of the spring, does this sound correct?

Picture below of the new cylinder in place. Just noticed on the pic a small object at the top of the 'barrel' that looks like a back to front letter E, couldn't be a part of the internal workings that's broken could it?


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Pm'd


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## neaudd (Apr 7, 2014)

Hi
I have Just changed my Master cylinder because it was leaking.
And I never had the problem your having with bleeding the clutch just got the wife to press clutch pedal.
Open bleed nipple push pedal down once and hold and whilst down lock bleed nipple ,do this 2 or 3 times until fluid is clear no air bubbles and it should be bleed.
You might have to pull clutch pedal back up whilst bleeding until you get all the air out of system.
But looking at your photo, I think your new master cylinder is faulty it should not leak after bleeding that is why you cannot get any pressure, air is getting in system from the leaking cylinder.


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## JonHC (May 27, 2014)

Yeah, that's what I thought. After reverse bleeding and not getting pressure I tried the open nipple, pedal down, close nipple, pedal up over and over for about 10 minutes with no luck.


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## neaudd (Apr 7, 2014)

Hi
Well I think its your master cylinder it is faulty, is it an OEM one or aftermarket one which ever I would take it back and only buy OEM from Audi.


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

The master cylinder has flipped it's seal....this is usually caused by incorrect bleeding or by not having the bottom travel limit stop fitted at time of bleeding....

Because of the flipped seal the fluid is passing inside....it's known as an internal leak hence the slight seepage..

The reverse bleed method is actually what is done at factory as it's a one man job and is quick and effective..

Daz


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## JonHC (May 27, 2014)

Sorry I didn't get back to you Daz, been a hectic day which included removing my wheels as I'm having the alloys refurbished. Looks like I'm going to have to get the cylinder replaced which is going to be a pain in the ass. I've been in contact with the guy I bought it from and I have to send this one back before he'll replace it. Problem is, I'm going abroad 2 days after Xmas and won't be back until the end of January so I won't be able to do anything until I return. To be fair though, the guy is ok about waiting until then to replace it.


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## JonHC (May 27, 2014)

Just an update to my clutch bleeding issues. The master cylinder I sent back was replaced with an all metal Febi Bilstein model which I installed at the weekend. The installation would have only taken me half an hour had it not been for the elbow joint refusing to fit into the outlet of the cylinder. I ended up removing the pedal again and the elbow joint and fitting it off the car. Fitting the other end of the elbow was much easier. Anyway, following Daz's simple reverse bleeding instructions (which took less than 5 minutes) the job was done! So back on the road again and it feels goooood! Oh, and I had my alloys refurbished whilst it was off the road, finished in white, £18 per alloy, £72 cash... bargain, and they look awesome.

Next project, sort out the dodgy lights on the dash pod.

Cheers for your help Daz.


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## lizttx (Oct 17, 2012)

Is there a buffer fitted to the Quattro models?
Or is it a normal master/ slave set up?
Replacing both of mine is the next job,
Is someone still making strengthened clutch pedals?


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## JonHC (May 27, 2014)

Well, I spoke too soon.

The clutch was working fine for about a week but now I've hit another hurdle. Whilst driving the car, changing gear is no problem, however, if at any point I have to hold the clutch pedal down for more than a few seconds and the car is in gear, the clutch gradually becomes ineffective and the car wants to start moving. At that point, I'm unable to take the car out of gear and the clutch pedal stays at the floor. I have to stop the engine and pull up the pedal so I can take it out of gear. After that, the pedal and the clutch works fine again and I can carry on until the next time.

I thought maybe there was some air in the system, so today I reverse bled the clutch system again but I'm still getting the same problem. I can't see any leaks anywhere so I'm beginning to wonder if the slave cylinder is on it's way out. How can I tell if it's the slave cylinder at fault and if it isn't, what else could be causing the problem?



lizttx said:


> Is there a buffer fitted to the Quattro models?
> Or is it a normal master/ slave set up?
> Replacing both of mine is the next job,
> Is someone still making strengthened clutch pedals?


Unfortunately, I don't know anything about a buffer or strengthened clutch pedals so I can't help you there I'm afraid.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

lizttx said:


> Is there a buffer fitted to the Quattro models?
> Or is it a normal master/ slave set up?
> Replacing both of mine is the next job,
> Is someone still making strengthened clutch pedals?


Hi, Just a normal M/C S/C setup with bleed nipple halfway along pipework on top of gear box.
Concentric S/C so gearbox out to replace it.
Wak was the only one that did a batch of strengthened pedals, but that was years ago.
Usually welded up by repairer. 
No return spring on pedal, just an over-centering spring, so that doesn't the pedal operation.
Hoggy.


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## JonHC (May 27, 2014)

Any ideas as to what's going on with my clutch Hoggy?


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