# 'Normal' healthy 3.2 V6 idle sound



## donwhuman (Sep 10, 2016)

Hi all,

Read lots about the timing chain stretch issue and conscious that my car, at idle, has a slight marble-in-can noise from the right side of the engine.

Only hear it with bonnet open.

Car is 2007, 35k and (until now) has been on 'variable' service intervals (I'm a new owner and will do annually).

Have a VAGCOM and 208/209 bank readings were -1 on both, which I understand is normal.

Do all 3.2s have this noise at idle ? Is it a case of 'TADT?'

Can't find a YouTube video of 'normal' only 'faulty!'

Cheers

Rob


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## Blaylock1988 (Dec 29, 2014)

There are example videos that show before and after timing chains for the Mk5 R32 since it's the same engine.

You are at low miles so you shouldn't need to worry about it for a while (80k miles), but it might be good to check the timing chain tensioner. It looks like a fat bolt with a little spring loaded plunger and is a pretty easy fix. Sometimes those get sticky/grindy.

Edit: Tensioner:








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## donwhuman (Sep 10, 2016)

OK thanks.

The tensioner - how quick and easy is this to do ?


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## Blaylock1988 (Dec 29, 2014)

I can't find a DIY or picture of where it's located. It's on the upper back side of the engine along the chain guide area. I've been told it's really easy to check but I haven't done it myself. I'll see if I can take a picture for you this afternoon.

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## Blaylock1988 (Dec 29, 2014)

Here is a pic of the bolt location I found on VWVortex

"To do the tensioner #11 you don't need to open up anything. it threads ino the upper timing case next to the exhaust manifold on the [car's left] side."

You can see it right in the middle. Remove that and squeeze it and see if it feels smooth or if it grinds.


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... st82149044

Here is a link to a DIY to an older version of the VR6 engine. It's pretty similar:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... st81573055

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## donwhuman (Sep 10, 2016)

Thank you for this - very kind

Read the VWvortex piece and certainly was an interesting read

Makes you wonder if it is a case of a manufacturing fault ?


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## Blaylock1988 (Dec 29, 2014)

donwhuman said:


> Thank you for this - very kind
> 
> Read the VWvortex piece and certainly was an interesting read
> 
> Makes you wonder if it is a case of a manufacturing fault ?


There was a thread on here a week ago talking about a US lawsuit against VW for 24v 3.2 VR6 timing chain failures. It should have been put in the manual to change at 80k miles in my opinion, instead they treat it like it's the life of the car.

Definitely check the tensioner now though since I've read of those getting bad way before the chains do, and it may help extend the life of your chains and guides.

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## rusTTy_racer (Sep 7, 2015)

Before I got my chains done there was a clear rattle at tick over after a good run. After you could hear the injectors pulsing with only background noise from the chains.

The wear isn't with just one item, it's all the components ageing together. Chains, tensioners, guides and sprockets all suffer so the only logical solution is to replace the lot while you are in there. This has a big cost implication so most will go for a plan B and replace less.

Measuring with VCDS gives you an indication as to the overall level of stretch. As you know the sensors can pick up a 16 degree offset and hence from a +8 +8 down to zero zero and into negative -8 -8.

I doubt any engine ever left the production line with +8 but anything around zero should have plenty of life in it (if a bit rattly). Once the stretch gets to -8 -8 or a difference greater than 3 between the sensors it's time for chains but you will most likely have a fault code by then. Hope this helps!


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## donwhuman (Sep 10, 2016)

Thanks

Moving to an ester synthetic oil which I will change annually. Get bored of cars quickly so doubt the TT will last more than a year anyway tbh


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## MichaelAC (Sep 7, 2009)

rusTTy_racer said:


> Before I got my chains done there was a clear rattle at tick over after a good run. After you could hear the injectors pulsing with only background noise from the chains.
> 
> The wear isn't with just one item, it's all the components ageing together. Chains, tensioners, guides and sprockets all suffer so the only logical solution is to replace the lot while you are in there. This has a big cost implication so most will go for a plan B and replace less.
> 
> ...


Remind me to have a listen to your engine, mine has always sounded like a rattler to me although not so easy to hear now the fuel pump's making so much noise :lol:


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## donwhuman (Sep 10, 2016)

MichaelAC said:


> rusTTy_racer said:
> 
> 
> > Before I got my chains done there was a clear rattle at tick over after a good run. After you could hear the injectors pulsing with only background noise from the chains.
> ...


A fellow Horsham-ite eh?


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## temporarychicken (Oct 16, 2012)

Get a stethoscope, or a piece of plubing pipe will do, any pipe around 1m length.

Place one end of the pipe against the side of the rocker cover where the chain runs (just to the right of the oil filler cap when standing in front of the car looking at the engine. Listen at the other end.

Now repeat the test further down the side of the engine (between the engine and air filter box.

Finally, repeat the test with the pipe firmly planted on top of the gearbox bellhousing near the engine, but not touching it (2-3 cm away from the engine timing case cover).

If the rattling is loudest at 1 it's the upper timing chain. Very common fault. You can remove the tensioner as mentioned above and clean it but beware it doesn't grenade on you as it's spring loaded!

If the ratting is loudeat at 2, it's possibly the lower chain (less common fault allegedly as this one is shorter and just drives the oil pump. The tensioner is inacessible without major dismantling and at this stage you would be doing the chains anyway.

If the rattling is loudest at 3 then chances are its not the chains at all, but your Dual mass flywheel. These also chatter with an extremely similar marbles in a can noise. This is due to the long radial springs shortening with age. The chatter will be between tickover rpm and up to nearly 2000 rpm. These noises are highly dependent on temperature.

Given the OPs low mileage and readings of -1 on blocks 208 and 209 then it's hard to believe either chain has stretched.

If your marbles in a tin-can sound changes with temperature, especially if rattly when cold and disappearing when warm at tickover, then this is the most likely culprit.

The DMF requires gearbo removal to replace, as do the chains, so best plan is to get the gearbox off and test the flywheel. If that is duff replace it. If not, onto the chains. Even if the flywheel is bad, it's still worth popping the timing cover off which is right behind it and inspecting the chains.

Total cost if it's just the flywheel could be 8-900 pounds from a reputable indie but for chains it could be 1500 plus.


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## Blaylock1988 (Dec 29, 2014)

This was my DMF:











Its not supposed to move that easily. I believe one of the springs inside broke. The new one was pretty stiff and springy, not clunky. You could hear the old one rattle a ton while in neutral, and also when I shut off the car. When I put it in gear the rattle went away but you could feel uneven vibrations. New one fixed all of that.

My chains guides were also quite worn as well as the exhaust cam gear.


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## temporarychicken (Oct 16, 2012)

Good video - I've heard it's also possible to check the flywheel radial play by taking off the starter motor and performing the rock test from there.


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