# DSG - May have to be replaced



## TT Law (Sep 6, 2003)

I have been having trouble with my DSG for sometime. When changing gear it sometimes seem to stick and judder between gears. It w nt into the dealer about a month ago and they claim to have adjusted it. Not suprisingly the fault returned.

It went back to the dealer yesterday and it now will not accept an electronic calibration upload. They are trying again today but if unsuccessful anew DSG is to be fitted.

Anyone else out there had the same fault?

Steve


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)




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## davidg (Sep 14, 2002)

TT Law said:


> Anyone else out there had the same fault?
> 
> Steve


sorry M8 , it was the gentle run on the iom that did it :wink: :wink:


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

Never got that, but I am worrying abouyt mine. Sometimes pulling away from second feels almost like the clutch is slipping (sure it's not that but that's the nearest thing I can equate it to). I'm taking mine back to get the parcel shelf sorted so I'm going to ask them to check it out. Let me know how you get on as I'd be interested to see....Especially how long it takes to replace a DSG box..!


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## Inno (Jan 3, 2004)

I'd ask for a new car. I have a magazine article from Audi claiming the gearbox clutches are guarantee'd for any number of launches - thats a quote from the designer of the box, so don't let the b'stards see you off!


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

I doubt whether I'd get a new car just because of a bad box which can be replaced, surely? If only we had the lemon law those who have suffered repeatedly would get some recourse.


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## TT Law (Sep 6, 2003)

UPDATE

Technician has been on the car all day with new solution from Audi. Still no good.

New gearbox has been ordered and should be fitted tomorrow.

Letter to Audi CS i think!

Steve


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## TT Law (Sep 6, 2003)

UPDATE

Technician has been on the car all day with new solution from Audi. Still no good.

New gearbox has been ordered and should be fitted tomorrow.

Letter to Audi CS i think!

Steve


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## fivelittlefish (May 15, 2002)

... had mine replaced a while ago - Audi CS not really interested, so good luck with a letter...

:?


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## Victor_F (May 6, 2002)

I had a similar set of problems as described in my experiences below and always in drive mode however on the second time to the dealers the problem was resolved. Apparently Audi UK are aware of potential issues with some DSG gearboxes and the solution is to add extra DSG gearbox oil above and beyond the standard recommended levels. My dealer was told to add another 0.25 litres of DSG oil which they had to send off for and a special tool (as usual!) for the work. They also had to heat it up to operating temperature to fill the box up. I guess this is to prevent unwanted pressure on the DSG housing when the oil expands. I had the work completed over two weeks ago and all the problems have been resolved.

FIRST PROBLEM & SYMPTOMS - Feb 2004
I'd just pulled out of work in drive mode and drove onto the main road and then stopped due to traffic. I pulled away again and then stopped again due to traffic. The next time I accelerated away nothing happened. I could hear the the gearbox making a "chucking" noise and there was no drive. The DIS display drive indicators were normal. I changed to neutral and then back, but nothing happened. I then put it in park and then back to drive and nothing to so I turned the car off and restarted. The gearbox was still making a chucking sound after starting again and putting it into drive. I then tried manual and got first drove out of the traffic and everything was then OK. I played around in all modes in a road off the main road and it seemed Ok so I made my way home. 
The following week at work again, after my commute to work I was parking and went into reverse and had a similar situation but that time with reverse and it seemed to have semi-engaged the wheels. It was like the engine was fighting the brakes and ESP. Weird. All I did in that instance was to reselect drive and then reverse and it was OK

SECOND AND THIRD PROBLEM - SAME SYMPTOMS - May 2004
Left work, knew something was up as I noticed a bit of lag. 4 miles down the road and when stationary the gearbox starts making a "chucking" and slight crunching noise with a slight foward lurch however it went when pulling away again. All of this was happening in drive mode. 
This happened another 4 times on my 20 mile journey home at which point I decided to go to manual and all was OK. Nearing home I put it back into drive mode and it was OK both on the go and stationary however 1 mile from home the DIS gear indicator line started flashing. Flicked it back to manual and all gears checked out (did not try reverse) though you do not see the individual gear number on the display as all flash. Anyway, get home turn the car off and then start it again and DIS is fine no problems. Take a test drive the next day and symptoms of the prevous night have gone, no lag and no problems in either mode.


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## CamV6 (Oct 26, 2003)

yeah, mine is being replaced soon

Got a problem with the car lagging (intermittent) when pulling away

If 'fivelittlefish' is watching, I know your replaced DSG didn't solve the problem that you had which sounds same as mine, but spoke to Audi Technical couple of days ago. Thier technician 'Matt' said he'd spoken to factory in Hungary and they admit quite a few cars have had the same problems ours have, and that it is caused by faulty software in the gearbox. As a result they have just altered the software installed accordingly. Got something to do with the signals the Box sends to the engine managent causing confusion and hence hesitation

This was a very recent alteration to the software. I am assuming that your SG was replaced a little wjile ago?

If you want to speak to the chap I spoke to about possibly getting a 2nd new DSG with the new software, then drop me a PM


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## fivelittlefish (May 15, 2002)

you have PM


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## RobbieTT (Sep 6, 2003)

And again.


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

When you say "recent", Cam, any idea of when this was released. I got my car in the first week of January 2004 and I'm kind of worried about this weird "slipping" thing that occurs now and again, as well as the delay. Will be taking to my dealer to get it checked out. I'd really like to talk to this "Matt" if possible...

Sometimes being at the bleeding edge isn't so much fun.

Thanks


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## Peres (Feb 26, 2004)

Steve - only just seen your post. I may have a similar problem.

I had lots of concerns with DSG when I got the car from new in early April, but nearly all these concerns were (I think) down to my driving style -- the hesitation being a prime example. I've adapted to it, but STILL feel the DSG is taking too long to sort itself out sometimes.

My problem is when I'm in a traffic jam:

The car is at standstill, in D, footbrake applied

cars move slowly away in front

foot to accerator, gas on a bit

wait till I feel the bite (one to one-and-a-half secs) and gas on more

nothing happens

gas on a bit more

car lurches forward

gas off

car almost stops dead

gas on

car lurches forward again

this goes on until it get's itself going! etc etc

AMD have looked at it a couple of times - it's booked in for tests this Monday. So any thoughts chaps and chapess' gratefully received


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

Mine does this very first thing in the morning (only)

I can sit on my drive with the car in R and blip the throttle for a second or two before it wakes up and realises that I want to go backwards 

I then reverse about 20 yards and snick it into D

and wait

by the time I'm off the estate tho it seems to have chugged back it's double expresso and by ready to come out fighting


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

Don't I Recognise You? said:


> Mine does this very first thing in the morning (only)
> 
> I can sit on my drive with the car in R and blip the throttle for a second or two before it wakes up and realises that I want to go backwards
> 
> ...


I definitely get the same sort of delay and the gear changing can be a little sticky when you first drive it - Back to the stealer, I think.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

This DSG is proving to be a bit pants, don't you think?

How many of you are now wary about driving the car unless it suddenly decides to stop working properly, leaving you stranded?

OK, its not quite as bad as the coil packs which dogged the entire VAG 1.8T range - but at least they could be changed by Audi Assist by the roadside quite quickly (providing there was any stock) whereas the DSG is a bit more work than that....

Honestly, one of the main reasons for letting my TT go was that I could no longer 100% rely on it. If I had a DSG, I'd be pretty fecked off right now...


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## Peres (Feb 26, 2004)

jampott said:


> If I had a DSG, I'd be pretty fecked off right now...


Not fecked off at all Jampott, DSG is amazing - just a few niggles - hopefully for me a software update needed.

Nearly all the complaints concerning DSG I've read about on this forum are 'hesitation' related. The few exceptions are major faliures and boxes are replaced - but that happens with manuals all the time.


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## aguess (Mar 21, 2004)

i don't get any problems with hesitation anymore. i guess they're still there but i've long since changed my driving style to suit the DSG.

it was a big issue for me, there's probably at least 20 posts from myself trying to describe it and hating it. i no longer even know it exists unless i come here and read about it.


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## CamV6 (Oct 26, 2003)

I cant say when the software was updated because the factory have apparently stayed tight lipped as to when.

There is also an additional problem known which was that due to an error during production, the DSG boxes were not being adequately filled with oil.

If poss, see if you can get your stealer to check the level.

It needs a special tool to check so ensure your stealer has this. The one I use had to order the tool in specially, and they found mine was short filled and topped it up. Can't say it really made any difference but then again some of u chaps are experiencing very different problems to this that myself and 'fivelittlefish' have been having.

U guys have gotta keep on with th complaints. Audi know there are issues with DSG and we mustn't let it lie.

I cant see how anyone with a hesitation issue can get used to it or adapt their driving style. The hesitation I have is so intermittent and so sever when it happens that you can never tell when it is goin to happen, nor can you do anything else other than back off entirely when it happens. Also the breathy sound from the engine is unmissable and sounds aweful.

KEEP ON AT 'EM. NEVER EVER TRY TO GEt USED TO IT.

When your dsg box or something else dies out of warranty you may regret it.

P.s. the software confusion apparently seems to cause the engine management to slip the car into what I am told is 'limp-home mode' temporarily. stranger and stranger.......


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## fivelittlefish (May 15, 2002)

> cant see how anyone with a hesitation issue can get used to it or adapt their driving style.


Have to agree with Cam about this - because it's intermittant, you can't get used to it. And I still think it's dangerous.
Example: Today I coasted up to a roundabout in 4th... nothing coming (this is in London, so 'nothing coming' is a relative term) so paddled into 3rd and stuck my foot down. Nothing for what seemed like an age, but in reality was maybe 1 to 2 seconds, then the car flies off. 
I call that dangerous, especially with a double decker bearing down on you.. :?


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## aguess (Mar 21, 2004)

fivelittlefish said:


> > cant see how anyone with a hesitation issue can get used to it or adapt their driving style.
> 
> 
> Have to agree with Cam about this - because it's intermittant, you can't get used to it. And I still think it's dangerous.
> ...


yup, that's the exact same problem i used to get and i'm sure still would if i drove the same way.

i just don't use the gearbox in that way anymore. i use the triptronic less and less now unless i'm on open road. i tend to leave it in D and S and often switch between the to when approaching roundabouts etc (see other post 'TAP TAP TAP'). the DSg obviously thinks it should be in another gear and has already pre-selected it so i just use D and S and let it get on with it. if i really want to change down quick then i use the kick down and again - the software knows what gear it's going to so there's no delay there either.

if i am using triptronic for whatever reason then i change down earlier and don't let it idle anymore i.e. have the revs such that although i'm not accelerating but i can feel it engaged.

i think CamV6's hesitation is a different one though, he's talking about pulling away etc isn't he ?

regards,


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## TT Law (Sep 6, 2003)

UPDATE 2:

Picked car up last night after the new gearbox was installed. All seemed fine but not today!

From rest at a busy fast roundabout I accelerated and the change once again from 1st to 2nd seemed to lose power.

Car is back at dealers for further investigations but my confidence in a cure is beggining to wane. The car had to be recovered because I had no confidence when pulling out into traffic. The recovery driver stayed tight lipped and said he could not comment on how many he had recovered but after telling him most of the problems he said that he had heard that Audi are now aware of a wider DSG problem?

Now driving an A8 courtesy car - very nice but not as sharp as TT.

Steve


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## pas_55 (May 9, 2002)

:wink: Maybe it's not the DSG then :wink:


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## CamV6 (Oct 26, 2003)

Yeah, my dsg actually appears to work just fine except for being slow into reverse at times and being a bit graaby edging in traffic also.

I can feel the box select the gear but when accelerating car seems to be struggling for revs and breath!

the theory that i hasvr trouble grasping is that at all times the box and the engine managent are constantly talking to each other but that the slight software glitch causes the box to send confusing signals to the Enige management, which in turn causes the lagging.

Car is under power, just mightily reduced power.

I initially told them that there was no way it could be the box 'cos i'd been able to re-create the sympto once whilst gently(ish) revving the engine whist sitting outside my house in 'P'

Anyway, they reached this conclusion after changing airflow meter and engime management.......and receiving advice from the factory. My suspicion is that the new software is very, very new.

Hence my concern in trying to explain to dealer that he needed to ensure he obtained a newly manufactured box as opposed to one made say one month ago.

By the way, the chap from audi technical assured me that the faulty boxes get sent back to the factory, tested and diagnosed, and then destroyed. So we shouldn't ever get a reconditioned or repaired box. I hope that's true!

Audi know there's an issue alright, factory have said so to one of their own UK technicians

Cam

Cam


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## TT Law (Sep 6, 2003)

UPDATE 3:

The car has been at the dealers since Friday when it was recovered. They phoned yesterday and advised they were waiting a response from Audi Tech due to the gearbox ECU not communicating with the VAGCOM.

The Mastertech suspects that another new gearbox is required and that the one they have fitted is a 'first generation' box with the original faults. Audi/VW are checking the other boxes in stock at Milton Keynes for the manufacture date before fitting another.

Another worrying sign is that the DSG stock at Milton Keynes has dropped from 15 to 9 in as many days. This seems a lot to have faulty in 5 days!

I am now due a call tomorrow to update me further but if a new box needs to come from Germany it will be 7-10 days  .

Steve


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

Sounds grim guys, I don't mean to gloat but i'm glad i went for a manual, purely cos' i'm old fashioned 

hope this doesn't become a big problem :?


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## Victor_F (May 6, 2002)

Mine was playing up again today on the way home. It's starting to really cheese me off :x 
I was in Drive mode at lights, pulled away and it wouldn't engage 2nd gear automatically. It was like I had selected sport mode but hadn't. I flicked the up paddle to resolve this. 
Driving the car in Drive mode is like driving with deep pile slippers on I know what you all mean by the hesitation and luckily it hasn't caught me out but it could be very dangerous.

In terms of response the car was better without the the extra DSG oil but then it juddered and made the horrible chucking noises.
Now it occasionally makes a small noise and it just doesn't seem right.

Does anyone who has a "normal" DSG gearbox here notice a slight engage/disengage noise when the gears change? You hear it more when slowing to a standstill in drive mode as the gearbox catches up changing down

Thanks


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

Victor

I think I qualify as having a 'normal' DSG - apart from very first thing in the morning (for first 30 secs or so), it seems to be working fine.

Sometimes (ie, it might be all the time, but masked by radio / traffic noise etc), I have noticed a slight clunk noise when coming to a halt in D.

Doesn't seem to happen in traffic when coming to a very gradual halt (from low speed), but I've noticed it when stopping for (say) traffic lights.

HTH


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## fivelittlefish (May 15, 2002)

My DSG software was checked yesterday by the stealer (who chipped the drivers door paint, but that's another story) and is apparently "up to date".

And it still hesitates....

:?


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## Peres (Feb 26, 2004)

Victor_F said:


> Does anyone who has a "normal" DSG gearbox here notice a slight engage/disengage noise when the gears change? You hear it more when slowing to a standstill in drive mode as the gearbox catches up changing down
> 
> Thanks


I get little 'clunking noises', only hear it with windows open, when either coming to a standstill, or pulling away. Mine went to Stansted Audi on Monday. They tweeked the clutches to lose some of the 'snatchy-ness' I was getting moving slowly in jams. They are changing the gearbox oil tomorrow.

Off topic but related: I'm really pleased with DSG now, but I have to be very aware of what it's expecting me to do next. Then it's great.


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## Victor_F (May 6, 2002)

Thanks for the feedback guys. I guess I'm normal :wink: :?: for the time being


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

Peres said:


> Victor_F said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone who has a "normal" DSG gearbox here notice a slight engage/disengage noise when the gears change? You hear it more when slowing to a standstill in drive mode as the gearbox catches up changing down
> ...


I get exactly the same with mine. Little clicking and clunking noises when slowing down in the last 2 down changes. Only hear it when the window is down.

Nothing to worry about I am sure, mine is running perfectly normal at the moment (touch wood), I am getting exactly the same sorts of delays, but it's easy to drive round them and at the moment, it's certainly nothing to get me worried about.

I still think the DSG is fantastic, but not perfect!!


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## jimfew (Mar 5, 2004)

bajers said:


> Peres said:
> 
> 
> > Victor_F said:
> ...


Same with me. Clicking and squeeking in between what seems to be 1st and 2nd gear and sometimes reverse.

Agree with you Baj.

Jim.


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## CamV6 (Oct 26, 2003)

Fivelittltlefish, when u say they checked the software, what exactly did they check? How do they know which version of software is in your DSG.

Sounds like that might be rampant bollo? Or maybe I am just a suspicious person :roll:

Cam


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

Now Jim, good to see you are still around


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Peres said:


> Steve - only just seen your post. I may have a similar problem.
> 
> I had lots of concerns with DSG when I got the car from new in early April, but nearly all these concerns were (I think) down to my driving style -- the hesitation being a prime example. I've adapted to it, but STILL feel the DSG is taking too long to sort itself out sometimes.
> 
> ...


Your description sounds like engine management problem :?


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## fivelittlefish (May 15, 2002)

> Fivelittltlefish, when u say they checked the software, what exactly did they check? How do they know which version of software is in your DSG.
> 
> Sounds like that might be rampant bollo? Or maybe I am just a suspicious person


I'm pretty sure they did check properly - Audi Technical phoned me the day after the car was in the stealers to say that the software was up to date, but that they were opening a case file with the factory, to do with the hesitation issue. It seems that UK technical can request changes to software settings - at any rate they are going to ask the factory to try a few new things. They did say that the issue with hesitation is to do with the DSG protecting itself from over torqueing, but that the safety settings may be a bit conservative, resulting in symptoms which are noticeable to the driver.
I do actually feel that someone at Audi listened to me for once


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## Victor_F (May 6, 2002)

I'm not sure about the over-torqueying angle to protect the DSG, if that was the case then manual and sport modes would definitely trash it?
I only experience the hesitation in in drive mode and that is usually because once you are one the move the DSG changes up too early for economy. You can be in sixth gear at 25-30mph, floor it and then the box has to change down like mad, and then if you slow down and then floor it, again the box is still catching up...a typical round-about, junction scenario.........

....or is just me :?

I wish you could pre-set the Drive mode parameters as it is a usual mode to be in. It sounds like the software revision is linked to new DSG boxes. Hopefully it can be post-flashed to ours.


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## fivelittlefish (May 15, 2002)

> I'm not sure about the over-torqueying angle to protect the DSG, if that was the case then manual and sport modes would definitely trash it?
> I only experience the hesitation in in drive mode and that is usually because once you are one the move the DSG changes up too early for economy.


I'm just the reporter here - I thought it would be helpful to you all to know what they said.

... and I get hesitation in all modes. But not all the time.


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

Victor's description seems to be on the money for me 

I guess it's the one big difference between DSG and manual.

With a stick, you can go from 6th to 2nd in one go (if you want to).
With DSG, it's busy changing down sequentially and trying to match the correct gear to the speed you are doing (whilst you are busy scrubbing speed off at a get rate of knots).

Then - just when it's happy about which gear you really want, you stamp on the loud pedal :twisted:

For me - I get less hesitation in S mode - possibly because the box never gets above 4th  (less gears to change back down through at rounabouts?)

I tend to leave things all in D if I'm just pootling home / about.
Brake more gently and slightly earlier for roundabouts, and let the box sort itself out by the time I need to hit the gas.

When queing for a gap on the said roundabout, I sit back from it by 3 or 4 feet, and watch for the gap coming.

When going for it a bit - paddles down to 2nd or 3rd on approach 

(as the A4 1.8T discovered this morning :twisted: Any fool can do 65 in a 50. But don't mess with me on a roundabout )


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## magicedd (Feb 10, 2004)

I also have the hesitation when pulling off in D. I tend to use S which does the 1st to 2nd I want all the time, but S keeps it in 2nd too long so I slip it into D just before I'd like it to change to 3rd. That is the only issue I have with the DSG, although I think D is sometimes a bit too conservative and S is a far too brash as you have to drive like a mad thing for it to work as intended.

This is all computer software (which I work in) and it seems that for me a combination of S and D is perfect and it must be possible to set it up that way. However, we get what we are given with no scope to change it.

Surely, if they find faults and bugs though, everyone should be able to call in to Audi for an update, or at least be updated at the next service.


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

Not in anyway knocking your choice of car, but b0110x to having to do this and that before a roundabout etc....
I would just want to get in the car and drive it, not spend months working out how the car wants YOU to drive it, not how you want to drive the car. Sod that.


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## Peres (Feb 26, 2004)

A3DFU said:


> Your description sounds like engine management problem :?


Thanks A3DFU, I'll bear that in mind.

I had the clutches 'tweeked' on monday and DSG oil top up today. Haven't diven in a traffic jam yet so don't know if it's cured. Stansted Audi advised me to let them know how the car is performing. If this hasn't cured it they want to change the box. I'll offer your suggestion before they change the box


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

But Ronin - I did the same thing when I was using a stick to change gears 

Now just let the box do 99% of the work, and use paddles to change at roundabouts etc instead of stirring the box with a mechanism that was first designed - oooohhhh - 50 odd years ago?


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

Don't I Recognise You? said:


> But Ronin - I did the same thing when I was using a stick to change gears
> 
> Now just let the box do 99% of the work, and use paddles to change at roundabouts etc instead of stirring the box with a mechanism that was first designed - oooohhhh - 50 odd years ago?


I must have been lucky with cars then, never had a car where ive had it in reverse and blipped it without it reacting to the throttle increase :wink:


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

I had a chat with the sevice manager of Links Audi today about this problem. He suggests two things: -

*1. This is directed at Steve (TT-Law)* : if they try to change the DSG for a third time then the box is unlikely to be the culprit! Ask your service center to check for other faults.

2. Generally speaking: the DSG gearbox is not like a _"normal" automatic _box. It is designed to simulate a manual gearbox whereby you will experience a certain amount of clutch slippage, especially when doing a hill start. To get round this "problem" keep the car in gear (D) with the hand brake on and revs up. Roll off by releasing the hand brake. Hesitation at _roll-off _ (traffic lights for instance) is normal for the DSG.

Hope this helps answer some questions.


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## TT Law (Sep 6, 2003)

Final UPDATE 'Hopefully'

Well the dealer has now fitted the 3rd DSG and had similar difficulties with it. When doing the calibration it is freezing between 2nd and 3rd gears. They are awaiting a tool from Audi to replace the DSG oil.

After numerous calls to Audi CS and my home dealer (Smith Knight Fay) the car is being replaced. Smith Knight Fay have been excellent throughout.

I have now ordered a stock car with the following Spec:

3.2 Manual Coupe
Elderberry Pearl Paint.
Silver Leather
Silver Control Pack.
6CD
Concert II
Cruise Control
9 Spoke RS TT's.

I decided that I would not go DSG again for obvious reasons. The DSG is a revelation when it work's and I will miss it. Maybe when the technology settles and the new TT arrives I will reconsider.

Steve


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

Wow!   

Is this a major problem do you think?

:?


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

Good result with a brand new car, but I really don't think this is a major issue with the DSG.

BUT!!!!

I had a major cock up with mine the other night coming home from work and it is all back to the delay thing I am many others have talked about before. I really should have known better.

Came up behind a slower car in light traffic and as I was closing, I had my foot off the accelerator coasting up to it, judging a gap in the oncoming traffic, ready to overtake.

I then pulled out, clicked down a gear and gave it a bootful to accelerate round and...........nothing :x

Hung there for the obligatory second or so with me on the wrong side of the road and no power until the bugger decided what to do. The car I was overtaking actually started to pull away again before my car then shot off like a scalded cat!!!

No big danger because there was a fair bit of room for manouver, but it was a bit disconserting to say the least.

Easy fix should have been to come up behind the car, changed down before I pulled out and away you go.

Time for a complaint to the dealers though I think.


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

That's that then...Just sent a snotogram to Audi C.Services.

The more people complain, the more they may listen and bring out a patch for this problem.


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

So you're saying you took your foot of the gas, which means the car must have been slowing (drivetrain and air resistance), so I'm guessing the car pre-selected a lower gear, but maybe just one lower? When the car took off, how many cogs do you think you'd dropped?

Clive


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

bajers said:


> I then pulled out, clicked down a gear and gave it a bootful to accelerate round and...........nothing :x
> 
> Hung there for the obligatory second or so with me on the wrong side of the road and no power
> 
> Time for a complaint to the dealers though I think.


Not meaning to be smug with my manual but that sounds highly dangerous to me! :?


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

TT Law said:


> I have now ordered a stock car with the following Spec:
> 
> 3.2 Manual Coupe
> Elderberry Pearl Paint.
> I decided that I would not go DSG again for obvious reasons.


Brilliant, Steve  
I will get the camera ready for when you'll sho off your new car!!!!


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## V6 TT (Sep 24, 2002)

digimeisTTer said:


> Wow!
> 
> Is this a major problem do you think?
> 
> :?


......."major problem"?! Grow up and just keep pretending/justifying to yourself that your '04 1.8 was the right choice.

FWIW mine (as per 1000's of others) has been as sweet as a nut since last October.......why do you keep insisting on posting on a DSG thread(s) when you don't have one I wonder? :roll: :roll: :roll: Just stick to "how can I make my TT sound like a sports car" thread and I promise I won't come onto it and gloat.......

.......and as far as being "smug" is concerned, there is no one smugger than me when I cruise past a 1.8 TT and listen out for some noise or stir from their engine.......you still purchased the wrong car at the wrong time, get over it! :lol: :wink: :roll: :lol: :wink:


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## vagman (Sep 6, 2002)

Ive done about 4k since getting my 3.2 in March and the DSG has met/exceeded my very high expectations. 

I have not had a single issue, which is in contrast to my first TT (manual, of course) which required new master and slave clutch thingys after only 2 weeks.

It was not a widespread problem (unlike the infamous coil pack failure with 1.8Ts) and judging by this and other Audi forums, neither is DSG a major issue, save for one or two isolated cases. :wink:


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## andya (Jun 17, 2003)

V6 TT said:


> ......."major problem"?! Grow up and just keep pretending/justifying to yourself that your '04 1.8 was the right choice.
> 
> FWIW mine (as per 1000's of others) has been as sweet as a nut since last October.......why do you keep insisting on posting on a DSG thread(s) when you don't have one I wonder? :roll: :roll: :roll: Just stick to "how can I make my TT sound like a sports car" thread and I promise I won't come onto it and gloat.......
> 
> .......and as far as being "smug" is concerned, there is no one smugger than me when I cruise past a 1.8 TT and listen out for some noise or stir from their engine.......you still purchased the wrong car at the wrong time, get over it! :lol: :wink: :roll: :lol: :wink:


here here ;-)


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

I bought the car i wanted! and just cos i haven't got DSG doesn't mean i'm not interested, it was a genuine question! I'm not trying to take the pi$$!

guess i touched a nerve 8)


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

I won't even relay my last 10 days of TT probs since it's too boring (Emission Control issue - Not DSG) but my dealer did bring up something interesting. I am sure many people know anyway, but I didn't.

The DSG box and the engine communicate and adjust according to the way that you drive the car - It is adaptive. This includes the point at which the gears change up and down - Crucial really! The guy at my stealer used to work for a Porsche dealership and apparently their Tiptronic cars have the same system and he went through a rather long and drawn out discussion with Porsche technical dept. to try and sort out a problem for a guy who was experiencing hesitation in overtaking.

The TT is supposed to remember your previous driving style (the last 25-30 minutes of it, anyway) so that the next time you get in the car it responds the same way, however the suspicion is that it may not "remember" for that long and that it resets back to a default setting after a while. Personally I don't use the car every day so for me it may be relevant. If the default is a more economic, dumbed down style the car will take a little while to re-adjust to your more "enthusiastic" driving. My dealer is planning to discuss this with Audi although I wouldn't hold much stock on receiving a call back on it any time soon.

Victor was also on the money for me - My car will be in 6th at 35mph! This means that no matter how fast the DSG box is, and even when it is working perfectly, it has to navigate back through at least 3 gears before it can get where you want it to be for an overtake. I find it easy to fool the DSG - Exactly the way that Clive was saying. For overtakes, if I am in D I will usually blip the paddle to change down.

I have got to the point where recently I have been using the manual setting and I've been a lot more comfortable with it. For me Sport is excellent but it's prone to holding the revs for just too long. D is fine for in town since I'm not racing around and when I get on the open roads the manual is working well for me.

I've had suspicions that my DSG isn't working right but at this time the dealer can find nothing wrong with it, and to be honest when I took the Service guy out for a test drive in it it performed flawlessly (typical!). Most times the car is fine, but on the odd occasion it will freak me out - I just wonder if this is the characteristic and the limit of the box, more than anything else.

I am sure that this thread (and my suspicions) will run and run -We'll have to wait and see.

As for the gloaters - best to leave them be. There's plenty of V6 haters out there - Can't remember who it was recently that was plopping on about "The rot setting in with the V6" and someone else saying that the V6's back end was hit with "the german ugly stick" (uh, yeah a slightly bigger spoiler and an exhaust trim panel....) but they're easy to find. You've got to laugh.

Everyone loves being able to say they made the "right" choice, when it suits them and hindsight is a wonderful thing, but if a coil pack, DV or dash pod goes then suddenly they change their tune. Never had that on my V6 - Does that then make the 180/225 the wrong choice? Of course not.


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## NUM_TT (Apr 5, 2004)

TT Law said:


> Final UPDATE 'Hopefully'
> I have now ordered a stock car with the following Spec:
> 
> 3.2 Manual Coupe
> ...


Can you have the controls pack with silver leather*?

Nice btw will look lovelly. 

*Controls Pack 
Includes steering wheel, gear knob, hand-brake cover, knee bolsters and door pulls in leather to match chosen upholstery. (Not available in Silver or Red).


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## RobbieTT (Sep 6, 2003)

Sorry to be boring, but had my DSG for over 8 months - and it's great. Think I was the second guy on the forum to post about a DSG glitch, towards the end of last year.

Been fine ever since.

The car is fantastic.


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

Kind of hoping the same for mine Robbie...........


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

digimeisTTer said:


> I bought the car i wanted! and just cos i haven't got DSG doesn't mean i'm not interested, it was a genuine question! I'm not trying to take the pi$$!
> 
> guess i touched a nerve 8)


I think that you "touched a nerve" for the simple reason that the people in this thread all appear to be looking to help each other out by sharing experiences and providing useful information to each other, so that we can all be happy with our cars and maybe arm ourselves with the information necessary to decide whether our cars are faulty. You, on the other hand have provided no useful information and haven't furthered the discussion in the slightest - That's really not meant as an inuslt; Just a statement of fact. Personally I just ignored your statement - It seemed a bit dim to me, to be honest - I mean, if the guy has to have his car replaced then for him it's pretty fair to assume that it's a major f****ng problem!

:roll:


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

Matthew said:


> I think that you "touched a nerve" for the simple reason that the people in this thread all appear to be looking to help each other out by sharing experiences and providing useful information to each other, so that we can all be happy with our cars and maybe arm ourselves with the information necessary to decide whether our cars are faulty. You, on the other hand have provided no useful information and haven't furthered the discussion in the slightest - That's really not meant as an inuslt; Just a statement of fact. Personally I just ignored your statement - It seemed a bit dim to me, to be honest - I mean, if the guy has to have his car replaced then for him it's pretty fair to assume that it's a major f****ng problem!
> 
> :roll:


 Fair comment, i'll consider myself truly flamed, i'm not trying to play devil's advocate.

:-|


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

apart from the "dim" bit :wink:


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## TT Law (Sep 6, 2003)

NUM_TT said:


> TT Law said:
> 
> 
> > Final UPDATE 'Hopefully'
> ...


Not now. The car is in the showroom at the dealers and is an 'Audi Exclusive' car.

I will post the pics when I figure out how to reduce the size of the files.

Steve


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

TT Law said:


> 'Audi Exclusive' car.


What's that? :roll:


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## TT Law (Sep 6, 2003)

A3DFU said:


> TT Law said:
> 
> 
> > 'Audi Exclusive' car.
> ...


It is the the exclusive orders processed by Quattro GMBH. It means that the equipment is not contained in the normal price list and is special customer order. The lead time is normally extended from ordering.

TT Shop Dave's car is an exclusive as well. i.e. you cannot order the Baseball seats for a coupe out of the brochure.

Steve


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Thanks, Steve


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## NUM_TT (Apr 5, 2004)

Ah I wondered how you get the more unusual specs like the audi bodykits. I assumed they were aftermarket third party jobs. The dealers don't shout much about the ability to have it any way you like it's a struggle to find out from them what colour you can have for 'free'* this month.

Can't wait to see the pictures of your car personally I can't wait to see my first elderberry in the flesh so to speak. In pictures it looks and sounds like a fun colour.

*free as in the standard charge for paint.


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

clived said:


> So you're saying you took your foot of the gas, which means the car must have been slowing (drivetrain and air resistance), so I'm guessing the car pre-selected a lower gear, but maybe just one lower? When the car took off, how many cogs do you think you'd dropped?
> 
> Clive


Clive,

I really think this is a software issue as the car seemed to have already selected the lower gear, because that is what I had called for on the paddles (just one down).

The problem has been established on the forum before and it is easy to 'drive' around I suppose, but we shouldn't really have to.

The exact problem is that if you are in 'D' or manual, it doesn't matter. If you then take your foot off the gas (you are now coasting say in 5th gear), paddle down to 4th and immediately hit the throttle, you get between a 1 and 2 second delay before you get any power.

If you do it the other way round, i.e keep your foot on a trailing throttle, paddle down and press down further on the gas, no problem, instant power, correct gear and away you go. It's the 'taking your foot off' bit that cocks the car up. It does feel like a software issue to me.

Really though, it is an irration in what is a brilliant car with a brilliant gearbox. Could be dangerous I suppose, but no worse than selecting the wrong gear in a manual or missing a gear. I cannot see myself ever going back to a 'proper' manual now.


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

Matthew said:


> The DSG box and the engine communicate and adjust according to the way that you drive the car - It is adaptive. This includes the point at which the gears change up and down - Crucial really! The guy at my stealer used to work for a Porsche dealership and apparently their Tiptronic cars have the same system and he went through a rather long and drawn out discussion with Porsche technical dept. to try and sort out a problem for a guy who was experiencing hesitation in overtaking.
> 
> The TT is supposed to remember your previous driving style (the last 25-30 minutes of it, anyway) so that the next time you get in the car it responds the same way, however the suspicion is that it may not "remember" for that long and that it resets back to a default setting after a while. Personally I don't use the car every day so for me it may be relevant. If the default is a more economic, dumbed down style the car will take a little while to re-adjust to your more "enthusiastic" driving. My dealer is planning to discuss this with Audi although I wouldn't hold much stock on receiving a call back on it any time soon.
> 
> ...


Spot on Matt.

I have heard of this 'adaptive' thing before, which is another (minor) irration with the car. Because mine is mostly town work and stop/start driving, its changing up far too early (just over 1000rpm) and I am in 6th by 30mph. Causes problems if you want to accelerate quickly as you have to dab down 2 or 3 gears.

If I go for a fast blast, its back to 'normal' and changes up at between 1500-2000 rpm which is far more comfortable, but the bugger soon goes back to it's old ways.

Another software glitch I feel which I have complained about to Audi CS.


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## V6 TT (Sep 24, 2002)

bajers said:


> I have heard of this 'adaptive' thing before, which is another (minor) irration with the car. Because mine is mostly town work and stop/start driving, its changing up far too early (just over 1000rpm) and I am in 6th by 30mph. Causes problems if you want to accelerate quickly as you have to dab down 2 or 3 gears.
> 
> If I go for a fast blast, its back to 'normal' and changes up at between 1500-2000 rpm which is far more comfortable, but the bugger soon goes back to it's old ways.
> 
> Another software glitch I feel which I have complained about to Audi CS.


.......FWIW I don't think it is adaptive at all. It has set routines which are triggered by how you use the throttle just like both instances you have stated above, mine is exactly the same.......you potter along in D and the large capacity 3.2 gets to 6 pretty quick with no fuss and good fuel economy.......you nail the throttle in D and the gears change at a higher rev limit (maybe 6800 revs?) between every gear.......both are as regular as clockwork and I pretty much nail my car down the M4 every morining (and mostly every other situation where possible - slaps wrist!) so you would think that if it was adaptive my car would change at a higher rate of revs when just pottering around in D but it doesn't.

I'm not sure about the taking the foot off the loud pedal milarkey but will try and let you know. Again, FWIW I change up and down in M whilst still depressing the gas pedal which I guess is the beauty of this box and therefore maybe the reason I never get into the delay problem you suggest? Maybe all the testers at development stage drove in a similar manner and hence why the software ended up the way it is?

I have a strange suspicion that even some who have change their boxes out (and if I remember correctly, reported the same issues?) may never be 100% happy as that's just the way the box behaves and maybe their driving style just isn't suited? Lots of but's and maybe's and I guess that will always be the case with new technology!

I do hope all you problems are sorted out quickly guys and if I can be a guinea pig, just let me know!

Cheers

Dean


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## pas_55 (May 9, 2002)

:wink: Could be a job for throttle body reset :wink:


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

V6 TT said:


> bajers said:
> 
> 
> > I have heard of this 'adaptive' thing before, which is another (minor) irration with the car. Because mine is mostly town work and stop/start driving, its changing up far too early (just over 1000rpm) and I am in 6th by 30mph. Causes problems if you want to accelerate quickly as you have to dab down 2 or 3 gears.
> ...


Well, you can only go on what you are told and the technician at Audi I spoke to explained the whole "Adaptive" thing to me. I've read about it on the web somewhere too but i can't find the bally link. Personally I'd rather it wasn't adaptive (i.e. it simply did what I told it to!!) but I guess I have to live with it.


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

Well there's nothing on Bentley about adaptive operation, but it does talk about two alternate 'gear change maps' that are selected on the basis of throttle position (driver demand), current revs and measured engine load (which directly relates to road condition/gradient/air resistance/etc). My understanding reading the (albeit limited) description is that the alternate maps are for rapid acceleration against controlled power (for hills, etc). This certainly ties up with what Matthew says... floor it hard and keep it there & you get one map, gentle/medium revs at lower speeds and you get a more 'lazy' map


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

Off we go on the great DSG debate again then chaps 

I have just had a telephone call from Audi CS as a result of my complaint to them.

Firstly, very politely they denied any knowledge of this problem and would not accept liability that there was an actual fault.

However, they would like me to book the car into the local dealer in order for the dealer to do some tests and for them to fill out a defect report form which is then sent to Germany :?

I mentioned that other people in the TT owners club had similar issues with the DSG and they have asked for anyone who has the same problem to do the same.

They stated that the more people that complain, the sooner it will get resolved at source.

I cannot believe they do not know about this issue.

Anyone who has a DSG TT, please try this and complain. I am sure yours will be the same.

On a nice straight road, in any gear, manual or auto, take your foot off the gas and change down a gear. Immediately after, give it a bootfull of gas and....experience the 1 to 2 second delay before getting power...and then complain!!

On the 'adaptive' thingy...mine has definetly changed from when I first bought it. On the same level of throttle it is changing up earlier. Yes, you can give it a bit more throttle and then it will change up higher up the rev band, but on light throttles, it is not right. I have tried a throttle body reset and this did not make any difference.


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## V6 TT (Sep 24, 2002)

Chip_iTT said:


> This certainly ties up with what Matthew says... floor it hard and keep it there & you get one map, gentle/medium revs at lower speeds and you get a more 'lazy' map


.......shouldn't that be "Dean"? :wink: .......never thought about checking my Bentley disc! :roll: :lol: :roll:


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## aguess (Mar 21, 2004)

bajers said:


> I cannot believe they do not know about this issue.
> 
> Anyone who has a DSG TT, please try this and complain. I am sure yours will be the same.


I made the complaint to hitchin over a month ago and asked them to log it so it was on whatever database it is that will mean other people will see it. The engineer who I took out in my car and demonstrated it to said that their demo did exactly the same and therefore they didn't consider my car to be faulty.

I'm seriously considering trading mine in after starting to find this a real annoyance. My 'To Work' drive is just fine so I start to learn to live with it and then I do something like drive a few hundred miles and it really starts to annoy me again


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## Peres (Feb 26, 2004)

Matthew / Bajers

My V6 DSG is going into the workshop again on Friday - they will keep it until it's resolved. As you may have read from my previous posts i've had all the hesitaion issues and more. Last week Stansted Audi topped up the oil in the DSG gearbox. This hasn't resolved my big complaint; the way the car behaves in a traffic jam. It seems to be very confused. Often lurching forward in a snatchy way when I gently apply the gas.

Anyway here's my point:

Wouldn't it be worth all TTOC DSG people logging all the problems they 'have' or 'have had' with DSG? See how many have the same problem. Maybe there's a pattern.

At least we'd see how many owners have issues with DSG

TTOC senior members over to you. This is what the board's for...:wink:

... a thought


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## maersk (Feb 1, 2004)

Might be useful to include all the A3 DSG out there as well to increase the data set and provide a more reliable sample.
:roll:


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Peres said:


> Wouldn't it be worth all TTOC DSG people logging all the problems they 'have' or 'have had' with DSG? See how many have the same problem. Maybe there's a pattern.


I think this is a very good [smiley=idea.gif] Peres


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

Good idea Peres!!

How do we do it chaps?


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

bajers said:


> How do we do it chaps?


Start a thread on this board _"post you DSG experiences here"_, ask for it to be made sticky and see what happens 8) 
Oh, and sorry I replied ... you only asked the chaps to do so :wink:


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

A3DFU said:


> Oh, and sorry I replied ... you only asked the chaps to do so :wink:


Apologies, didn't realise


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

OK. I'll go out in mine and try what was suggested to get the delay. TO be honest I stil have not managed to pinpoint what causes it exactly - It appears (eemingly) at random so anything I can do to coax it out is going to be good for me.

I will start taking my car to Stansted Audi; They may take my complaints more seriously than my current dealer and if they have DSG failure experience it may help too.

More info later.


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

I agree that we need to collate some answers here....

At the moment tho, we already have (IMO) too many stickies on the front page.

Hmmm. Will see if there is another solution....

PS - will try the hesitation thing today


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## aguess (Mar 21, 2004)

Here's my pet hates which can be cut and pasted into any thread that's started.

1. I hate the DSG's hesitation. To repeat this coast up to a roundabout at about 30 or 40 in 4th (or giveway junction or anywhere) and then change down a gear (or two) and apply throttle and the car doesn't pick up for about at least a second. At which point you've applied a bit more gas wondering why you arn't moving and when it does pick up lurch forward at a rate of knots. This happens in Manual and D mode for me. One of these days it's going to cause an accident as I can't trust what it's going to do. Do I apply power early because there's going to be hesitation - no can't do that because very occasionally it's not there. Do I not go for the gap I was going for, no can't do that because of a sudden power surge as it does pick up.

2. I hate the way that in D it's in 5th gear at 20-25mph and 6th gear at 25-30mph. This is a stupidly high gear to be driving around town in and gives no control.

3. I hate the way that at 6500 revs it changes gear for you even when you are in manual. Let me make that decision. Fine don't break the engine so don't let my revs go higher but if I wanted to change gear I'd do it and you often do it at the wrong point in time and occasionally throw me as the weight of the vehicle seems to shift.

4. I dislike the fact that the paddles are on the steering wheel which often makes it confusing to change gear while going around a bend. They should be on the steering column or have the ability to change up or down on either paddle rather than having to know which one is which.

There are other niggly things but the above covers my real gripes about the DSG and have caused me to think seriously about trading it in.


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## TT Law (Sep 6, 2003)

aguess said:


> There are other niggly things but the above covers my real gripes about the DSG and have caused me to think seriously about trading it in.


I hope that you have considered the current trade in values.

The car they are replacing for me has a current book trade value of Â£24200.  This is from a purchased value of Â£31500 in November 2003.

Steve


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## aguess (Mar 21, 2004)

TT Law said:


> aguess said:
> 
> 
> > There are other niggly things but the above covers my real gripes about the DSG and have caused me to think seriously about trading it in.
> ...


ultimately this is probably what will stop me from doing it. I'm prepared to lose about 2-3k. i haven't had the chance to look properly into trade in or even if my dealer will do me a decent deal for a manual as i've been too busy.


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

WOW!!!!!!! Your new TT looks super, Steve 8) 
(sorry, I prefer it to your "old one" already!!)

BTW, what are you doing with your new alloys?



bajers said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, and sorry I replied ... you only asked the chaps to do so :wink:
> ...


No worries :-*


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

aguess said:


> 1. I hate the DSG's hesitation. To repeat this coast up to a roundabout at about 30 or 40 in 4th (or giveway junction or anywhere) and then change down a gear (or two) and apply throttle and the car doesn't pick up for about at least a second.
> 2. I hate the way that in D it's in 5th gear at 20-25mph and 6th gear at 25-30mph.
> 4. I dislike the fact that the paddles are on the steering wheel which often makes it confusing to change gear while going around a bend. They should be on the steering column


Pretty strong feelings there m8, but I agree with you on points 1,2 and 4. Changing up at 6 1/2 is personally not a problem for me. Not wanting me to ditch the motor by any means.

But...here's my gripes:-

1. Hesitation when changing down. Spot on. I guarantee all you V6'ers will have the same problem if you do this exactly the same. My most serious complaint.

Any gear, manual or D, straight road, motorway, junction, whatever. Take your foot off the throttle, change down, either paddle or stick, (1,2,3 gears it doesn't matter) and then give it some throttle immediately. You will get the 1 to 2 second delay before power comes in. It is more noticeable if you are in a lower gear and changing down a couple of gears expecting fierce acceleration because...it doesn't come and then comes in with a rush!!

2. Changing up far too early. Yep, into 6th by 30 mph on mine at 1000rpm. Not good, bad, bad car.

3. Don't like the paddles on the wheel, but to be honest, I have got used to them now I suppose. What I don't like is the crappy bits of plastic and they should have put the alloy Golf's on!! (Lucky you boys with the French connection. I didn't have my car when the 'group buy' was going on). :?

4. I don't like the gear display on the bottom of the DIS. It should be swapped with the poxy radio display at the top of the screen and then when in manual, just display the gear you are in, with a large red number. Not essential to know what gear you are in because you should drive by how the cars sounds/feels, I know, but it's nice all the same.

5. AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY.....I keep harping on about this, I would never go back to a manual car after this (given a choice). I still love the DSG, but if Audi listen seriously to our complaints, DSG II will be even better


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Audi does listen  I have been told today by a reliable source that a different software for the DSG will come out in the not too distant future!!!!


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## V6 TT (Sep 24, 2002)

.......tell us more you bugger!!


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## aguess (Mar 21, 2004)

bajers said:


> 4. I don't like the gear display on the bottom of the DIS. It should be swapped with the poxy radio display at the top of the screen and then when in manual, just display the gear you are in, with a large red number. Not essential to know what gear you are in because you should drive by how the cars sounds/feels, I know, but it's nice all the same.


yup, that's one of my niggles as well. i never look at the radio.cd info on the DIS so use it to tell me what gear i'm in with BIG numbers rather than a tiny little display that's only just abot the top of the steering column.

also with the hesitation, i agree it can happen in a lot of situations and speeds. the example i gave is (for me) the easiest to describe and reproduce.


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

I may risk being flamed here but............I think that if we're going to get a unified message to Audi on this, it needs to be done right. I have to do some Customer Service (i.e. deal with the public directly) in my job, and by the time people speak to me they have nowhere else to go and have exhausted all other routes, hence I only speak to angry, frustrated and upset people. Once of the things which makes getting something sorted to a customer's full satisfaction so much more difficult is when people get TOO over emotional and start to become rude and offensive, or to try to add weight to one issue with other niggly things they don't like about the same product. I'm NOT for one moment saying that anyone on this thread has acted like that (or not that I have seen) but I think that it's worth saying that if we're to get anything at all from Audi we need to strike a balance between being polite and letting them know that we don't feel the way the box is working is acceptable in a car of that value. We also need to focus on the crux of the matter - That the DSG isn't working the way we feel that it should do, and the way that it obviously does for some happy customers.

Personally I think to start getting into complaints about where the paddles are located is going to cloud the issue - That's not really a fault with the DSG system, and isn't something that we can reasonably expect Audi to change on our cars, right? Similarly I too would love the DIS to show the gear more prominently but I doubt whether that's a particularly simple fix (although I bow to greater knowledge).

Going to Audi as sensible people who simply want a swift and sure resolution to get the box to operate reasonably without any (potentially dangerous) delays is, IMHO, the way to go. The minute we start going at it like the Militant arm of the TTOC we'll probably get less from them. I'm not saying we should allow ourselves to be fobbed off, but it helps to remember that we are dealing with human beings and that if they get too pissed off they'll be less inclined to go out of the way to help us.

Maybe I am being Naive but I guess I'm just asking that for all our sakes people temper their communications with Audi on the issue, stick to the issues with the box, and put forward a professional impression.

Sorry if anyone takes offence at this - It's really not aimed at anyone in particular (although obviously I did quote a couple of people's gripes) - I'm just trying to make sure that we all get a good solution.

For my part, I am going to be able to get out later today and do the "test" that was posted. My biggest issue is that I still can't work out what it is that I do to get the DSG to do weird stuff - Yesterday it was very "snatchy" and then later on it was fine. Of course when I took it to my stealer the car worked perfectly.......So frustrating!


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

Matt and all,

I agree with your comments totally and a big part of my job is customer complaints after they have escalated.

I always work on the logic of talk softly but carry a big stick and most complaints will get resolved that way rather than shouting and clouding issues.

It sounds like with yours, you might have an actual fault with the intermittent snatchiness, which to be fair, I have experienced, but is not really a problem to me.

1. The major issue as far as I am concerned is the hesitation thing when changing down and this is what I would like fixing.

2. The changing up too early is the other issue, but less of a complaint, but I feel should still be included.

The rest, I agree, would only cloud the issue, so I feel we ought to concentrate on the above 2, but welcome any other thoughts/complaints.

What's the best way to do it?

Well, I would initially recommend an e-mail complaint to Audi CS (address off Audi web site) from each of you. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I got a telephone call from them the following day from them and they have asked if I will take the car to the local dealer for them to fill out a defect report, which is then fed back to Germany.

If we all do this, then the more reports they get, the more they will sit up and listen.

Secondly, there just seems to be a few of us here with DSG's complaining. There are a lot more people with V6 cars on this forum which we ought to try to get on board. Maybe a sticky, or starting a specific thread or something. There was a thread on here started by Dean I think listing all the V6 owners. Maybe we could revisit that thread and PM them all asking to check their cars and enlist their support.

Thirdly, I think we should then submit a formal complaint from a senior, senior member of the forum to Audi UK with the authority of the TT owners club.

Finally, I cannot believe that Audi do not know about these issues as Dani has mentioned something about a new software update. If we knew a bit more about this, perhaps this might cure some of the issues.

Any thoughts/comments would be welcome.

Cheers.

Baj.


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## moley (May 14, 2002)

I've been watching this thread with interest - some good sound arguments made.

I've had my V6 DSG for some 5 or 6 weeks now and I'm sure I can relate to the hesitation problem and the occasional snatchiness - both when selecting reverse and in the low forward gears - especially the roundabout approach problem, which I've also been caught out  . So, I guess an e-mail to Audi CS is in order.

The other "issues" of changing up too quickly and the location of the gear display info don't worry me at all.

Moley


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## aguess (Mar 21, 2004)

If no one has any objections then I'll fire off an email today to Audi CS asking about hesitation and early selection of 6th gear.


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

Sounds good. My issues (all, sadly intermittent) have been:

1. Hesitation when pulling away (1-2 seconds then suddenly a massive onset of power as I have over compensated).

2. In D the box changes up to 6th (and 5th) far too early. As others have said, I will be doing 35-40mph and the car is in 6th, with 5th at around 30 mph.

3. Odd bouts of "snatchiness" where the response fromt he car is quite jerky.

4. Delays in putting the car in reverse - i.e. Engage reverse gear and there is a pause while the gearbox find the gear.

5. Occasions where there is an impression of "slippage"; Almost like the feeling you'd get in a traditional manual where the clutch has worn out and you can feel it spinning. Basically this has happened a number of times where I pull away, or the car has just changed gear (up or down) and suddenly no matter how much power you feed in you feel the car going nowhere. Again, by the time the box has responded you end up applying too much power and you get a huge surge foward. The delay here feels longer than the usual one, although that's likely due to the panic setting in! This causes untold problem when overtaking.

Most of these issues seem to appear when in D, but not exclusively. I hope to conduct more tests today to clarify.

M


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## moley (May 14, 2002)

E-mail has been sent to Audi CS. Let's see what happens :?

Moley


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## aguess (Mar 21, 2004)

moley said:


> E-mail has been sent to Audi CS. Let's see what happens :?
> 
> Moley


did you find an email address or do i really have to fill out all that info that they want to capture on the web site?


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## maersk (Feb 1, 2004)

8) 
Why are you lifting off prior to changing down?
Do you lift off when changing up?
The whole idea (I thought) was that you do neither at any time. The loud pedal stays planted. This is how I drive mine and the only time I have an issue is in D at roundabouts where the revs go below 1200 on the overrun when approaching. THEN and only then do I get the delay as the box decides whether to go with the gear selected or to change down and select warp speed out of the roundabout.
This is the issue that requires a software mod I suggest. Allowing the engine revs to fall lower befores disengaging the clutch(es). What is really strange is that from a standstill the clutch appears fully engaged at 1000 rpm so why not disengage at the same point.
OK I answer my own question - parking manoevers, I guess - to avoid full enagement at low roadspeed and impossible parking.


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## aguess (Mar 21, 2004)

maersk said:


> 8)
> Why are you lifting off prior to changing down?


because when i'm approaching a roundabout at 80 mph i don't always wait until the last minute and break hard to take it at 30mph. sometimes (i.e. when i'm not booting it which is quite often) myself, and more often my passengers, like a smoother ride so if i know a roundabout is coming up it's often nicer just to let the engine slow you down. i do this by taking my foot off of the accelerator. then quite often when i've reached the roundabout, i'll see an opening, realise i'm not in the appropriate gear, change down and apply gas.

surely i'm not alone in this set of events ?


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## Peres (Feb 26, 2004)

**Related But Off Topic**

I need your help...

Does anyone get strange clutch/box behaviour in traffic jams. Snatchy with sudden lurches when moving off from a standstill in heavy traffic.

I need a guinea pig (DEAN?) Try the car at standstill. Imagine traffic moves slowly away, foot off brake, gently apply gas - don't let the car go faster that 10 mph, preferably less. Does it snatch?

My car is going in for tests for this problem on Friday :?:

**will move this post to fresh thread if necessary**


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

aguess said:


> maersk said:
> 
> 
> > 8)
> ...


Same here - I don't drive like Sterling Moss on the roads - Prefer not to race upt o every junction and hit the anhors at the last minute.


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## Victor_F (May 6, 2002)

Peres,
I had the exact same problems. A normal but low DSG gearbox oil was at fault. Audi UK are aware of the issue though I'm sure if you ring them they'll deny all knowledge.
My dealer was instructed to add another 0.25 ltrs of DSG oil above the recommended level. They had to heat the oil up and also use a special tool to to do it. To date and touch wood I haven't had any further problems. I just get the normal hesitation now that everyone else gets :?


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

V6 TT said:


> .......tell us more you bugger!!


Must have had a name change :wink:


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## Peres (Feb 26, 2004)

Victor_F said:


> Peres,
> I had the exact same problems. A normal but low DSG gearbox oil was at fault. Audi UK are aware of the issue though I'm sure if you ring them they'll deny all knowledge.
> My dealer was instructed to add another 0.25 ltrs of DSG oil above the recommended level. They had to heat the oil up and also use a special tool to to do it. To date and touch wood I haven't had any further problems. I just get the normal hesitation now that everyone else gets :?


Thanks Victor

I've had the oil top up just over a week ago - snatchy-ness still happening.


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## pas_55 (May 9, 2002)

:wink: Minds been fine since day 1.Display yes should be bigger and on all the time.Should I complain as I feel left out! :wink:


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## moley (May 14, 2002)

aguess said:


> moley said:
> 
> 
> > E-mail has been sent to Audi CS. Let's see what happens :?
> ...


Sorry, e-mail wasn't exactly the right term. Yes, I filled in the registration details first - although I discovered I must have already done this in the past :roll: Then just filled the comments box with the text. I've got an automated e-mail reply saying the request will be processed in the next 48 hours.

Moley


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## aguess (Mar 21, 2004)

aguess said:


> maersk said:
> 
> 
> > 8)
> ...


i'll give another real world example.

driving back to work after lunch today i was following a bus in a 40 zone. it's going about 20 and i don't need my foot on the Gas in third gear to keep pace with it about 20 metres behind so my foot is just resting on the pedal. it stopped at a bus stop - one of those in the road. i saw a gap in the oncoming traffic enough for me to blat around the bus if i was quick about it and accelerated now. so i committed myself and changed down to second to overtake the now stationary bus. big mistake as the car hesitated for about 2 seconds making my whole manoever a bit embaressing and looking like i was a nutter and coming through regardless.


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## Peres (Feb 26, 2004)

aguess said:


> aguess said:
> 
> 
> > maersk said:
> ...


Aguess - you are not alone, good example.


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## Peres (Feb 26, 2004)

V6 TT said:


> Again, FWIW I change up and down in M whilst still depressing the gas pedal which I guess is the beauty of this box and therefore maybe the reason I never get into the delay problem you suggest? Maybe all the testers at development stage drove in a similar manner and hence why the software ended up the way it is?


Dean - I tried this and it works great - but there are times when my foot has to ease off the gas - braking for example - before changing down to overtake etc. and then........................ :? ..................  ..................... :x .......................off we go :wink:


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## steve.br. (Jun 30, 2004)

steve.br. 30/JUNE/04

Have just handed my 3.2 dsg back to audi edin, they are replacing the box after trying to replace only the gear box oil. ADT engineer was not aware of any problems and past the car as being health, before i had taken the car back. Will ask about softwear also, to see if the garage is more clued up than there own, on the road engineer.

Steve.Br.


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## maersk (Feb 1, 2004)

Interesting.
Mine is an A3 TDI and I do not suffer the exact symptoms so there has to be a software difference.
My original post was about lag when changing down in the open road scenario not the roundabout (which I agree with) but in the open road change down there is no problem,.
Check the previous posts.


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## maersk (Feb 1, 2004)

Flame flame ok


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## aguess (Mar 21, 2004)

someone else has also posted on here to say that the DSG in the A3 doesn't change up gear at 6500 revs either so i guess there are software differences between the cars.

i'm guessing the hesitation is because of incorrect pre-selection. for example if in 4th at 30mph then i guess the next gear it's programmed to preselect is 5th (and going on the fact that the gearbox likes to be in 6th by 30mph in D mode I could well believe this). therefore if all of a sudden you force it to go to third then it has to deselect 5th and select 3rd and maybe some other hocus pocus inbetween.

this might also explain why the TDi doesn't experience the same issues as maybe it's programmed to preselect different gears at different speeds due to the nature of the engine (diesel and turbo rather than v6 lump). also maybe the nature of it being diesel and turbo you are used to a slight lag (hesitation) whereas we're used to instant delivery of power.

obviously i have nfi what i'm talking about just putting forward some ideas


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

Sounds fair to me ag.

I'm ringing the dealer tomorrow to take the car in to be looked at.

I can replicate the problem with mine anytime, any gear, any speed, any road, regular as clockwork.

Foot off gas (and yes I do that too to use engine braking , smoother ride etc), change down and immediately apply throttle.....delayyy!!!

I have found though that if you take your foot off the gas, change down and wait a couple of seconds before you apply throttle, it does sort itself out and you will get instant drive as soon as you apply throttle.

So maybe it is part of the mapping thing. But then again, I don't think so because if I am in sixth, foot off gas, change down and instantly apply throttle, I still get the delay.

Surely in this instance, it would have already had 5th engaged because there is nowhere else for it to go so this leads me to think it is still a software problem and should be able to be fixed with a patch!!


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## CamV6 (Oct 26, 2003)

Peres,

I get exactly the same problem. It is so pronounced sometimes that it really can lurch me forward at times.

Just this evening, coming up to a big busy roundabout, engine breaking quite gently down into first at almost a standstill, it really delayed engaging 1st gear, then finally engaged just as I was coming to a stop, and lurched me forward a good few feet. Not good

Still, cars going in for a new box on minday 5th. They say it will take 2 days. Hmmm we shall see....


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

aguess said:


> aguess said:
> 
> 
> > maersk said:
> ...


I put this purely down to driving style - I used to have this problem, as I have stated on many threads, I solved the delay on down change when in low gear/slow speed but not accellerating at the same time as making the down change. Solved. The time lost to not hitting the gas too early over the kickdown delay is almost zero. :?


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## aguess (Mar 21, 2004)

saint said:


> aguess said:
> 
> 
> > aguess said:
> ...


IMO waiting 1 or 2 seconds then applying gas gives the same end results as applying gas and waiting 1 or 2 seconds. this car is advertised as being able to change gear in 0.02 seconds, i shouldn't have to wait 100 times that to get what i need. tbh even i can change gear a hell of a lot faster than that.

i should also point out, incase i've been misunderstood, that it doesn't always happen or affect me and this is one of the major problems because when it does happen it catches you out. if it always happened then i could make allowances for it.

regards,
alex


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## maersk (Feb 1, 2004)

:x
Appears that no matter how you slice it, Audi has got some software wrong here. Developed by Microsoft perhaps? O maybe there are no roundabouts in Germany.
The isue is around the relationship between road speed and engine rpm allowing the clutches to open. It cant make up its mind whether or not you are going to stop so it waits as it does not want to rev its bummocks off in effectively neutral.
Come on Audi, extract the digit. This is a great product that could be outstanding if you alienate Mr William Gates and get some real sofware engineers on board. :wink:


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## Victor_F (May 6, 2002)

I think Audi also need real testers who will drive the car in real conditions to compliment the readouts from all of of their telemetry and recording equipment to detremine and set the characteristics of the car. 
I can't believe that that the motoring journalists didn't experience the delay issues we are experiencing...maybe a bit too much corporate entertainment was thrown their way so much so they didn't notice it!

On an open road the car is fine but in the city and stop start traffic the DSG is cheesing me off. I can't understand the logic bearing in mind the car is supposed be sporty, to have the car in 6th gear by 30mph!
Tonight I was travelling home in Drive mode, I could tell the car was in a leisurely 6th gear but checked by quickly flicking it to manual. 30mph and in 6th. I flicked it back to Drive and then floored it and during the process flicked to manual again to see what gear it jumped down to. It had jumped down to 2nd...more like it but what a waste from having been in 6th. I didn't by the car for economy on this scale :?


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

Victor and others,

Please e-mail a complaint to Audi CS via Audi UK website.

Anyone else done this yet?


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

never said wait one or two secs - just adjust the foot to gas


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## maersk (Feb 1, 2004)

8) 
I have to say that for town driving I leave mine in Sport.


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

My biggest problem is that for me the car doesn't appear to have any particular rhyme or reason to when it will perform it's little "Petit Mal" - This is what made it tough to take the car back to the dealer. I have been trying some of the stuff on here and while I have experienced most of them it's intermittent. I can easily get it to sit in 6th at 30MPH and certainly coasting up to a roundabout and flooring it will bring about the problem but others seem to have even more problems than mine! I'm going to write to Audi tomorrow and see what happens.

This is all incredibly frustrating.


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## aguess (Mar 21, 2004)

bajers said:


> Victor and others,
> 
> Please e-mail a complaint to Audi CS via Audi UK website.
> 
> Anyone else done this yet?


yes. twice infact - didn't get an automated response the first time. it appeared it let me part register so i had to delete my audi cookie and start again.


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

I've got to say that I've been trying to provoke mine for the last couple of days.

I can get the odd delay whilst it sorts itself out at roundabouts - but never more than about half a second.

Although at times I did seem to get a 'dead zone' on the throttle - whereI was increasing pressure on the pedal without anything happening to the revs or speed?

But again, only for about half a second :?

Are any of you guys coming to Brooklands on the Saturday?

Might be worth a bit of a convoy to find a seculded stretch of road for back-to-back DSG comparisions?


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

Don't I Recognise You? said:


> Are any of you guys coming to Brooklands on the Saturday?
> 
> Might be worth a bit of a convoy to find a seculded stretch of road for back-to-back DSG comparisions?


Hopefully, yes and sounds like a good idea.


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Don't I Recognise You? said:


> Are any of you guys coming to Brooklands on the Saturday?


  I'll be there already on Saturday, cleaning my car :roll:


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

Don't I Recognise You? said:


> I've got to say that I've been trying to provoke mine for the last couple of days.
> 
> I can get the odd delay whilst it sorts itself out at roundabouts - but never more than about half a second.
> 
> ...


The lurching, snatching, suddenly speeding up convoy! I can't make Brooklands unfortunately as I would love to compare DSG's. I get that Dead Zone thing a lot and it's about a 1-2 second delay.


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## vagman (Sep 6, 2002)

I can't say I've experienced any problems with DSG, but may I be so bold as to put forward some suggestions.

6th gear @ 30mph : Yes this is true if you drive like a jessie. 
Suggested solution : Give throttle more welly (will change up @ circa 2,500 and you'll be in 3rd @ 30mph)
Use the stick, (change gear when you want) 
Use the paddles (ditto)
Stick it in Sport ( will change @ 5500 revs and you'll still be in 1st @ 30)

Wrong gear at a round-a-bout : Possibly if you've approached it too fast, then slammed on the anchors to slow down.
Suggested solution : Use the stick/paddles (move to your desired gear in an instant plus engine breaking will help reduce your speed) 
Stick it in Sport (as above, but the car does it all for you)

Delayed responses when wanting to accerate : Possibly if you are in D doing 30 then opportunity presents itself to put the foot down.
Suggested solution : Anticipate your chance to floor it and move lever to Sport or utilise tiptronic /paddles to move down a couple of gears.

As for contacting ACS, I would hardly class the issues as a complaint, so don't be surprised if you only get an email back saying "we value your feedback and thenk you for taking the time to contact us"


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## Richard (Apr 25, 2003)

Would agree with your comments Vagman - in fact I often drop into Sport from drive if I want to overtake.

As for the other issues, there were plenty of comments on this last summer when the first demonstrators appeared, so hopefully most of us knew what we were getting into. I doubt that Audi will do much now. Can't say it's been a major problem for me as I use the paddles wherever possible.


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## CamV6 (Oct 26, 2003)

A lot of you are experiencing something quite different to that which fivelittlefish and I complain of I think.

the hesitation i get is when accelerating the car starts to accelerate, then whilst still under power, it hits what feels like a massive massive flat spot and the revs get retarded and then pick up.

No way did any demonstrator behave like that!


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## moley (May 14, 2002)

vagman said:


> As for contacting ACS, I would hardly class the issues as a complaint, so don't be surprised if you only get an email back saying "we value your feedback and thenk you for taking the time to contact us"


I'm sure this will be the case (although the promise of a reply within 48 hours has not materialised). But if there is a "real" problem then at least people are logging it for Audi's info and maybe they can go on to improve the DSG for the future - so I think the feedback to Audi is still valuable.

Moley


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## TT Law (Sep 6, 2003)

CamV6 said:


> A lot of you are experiencing something quite different to that which fivelittlefish and I complain of I think.
> 
> the hesitation i get is when accelerating the car starts to accelerate, then whilst still under power, it hits what feels like a massive massive flat spot and the revs get retarded and then pick up.
> 
> No way did any demonstrator behave like that!


CamV6,

The symptoms you speak of are the ones I had with mine. 3 gearboxes later it still was not fixed.

As you may know with the help of an excellent dealer (Smith Knight Fay Stockport especially Jane and James) I am now driving a brand new 3.2 manual.

Audi seem aware of the issue and a source has told me that new codes and all new software are on the way!

Steve


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## CamV6 (Oct 26, 2003)

I was told by a technician at Audi UK that they had diagnised a software issue and had re-programmed it very recently, although the factory had allegedly been very tight-lipped about when this had been implemented.

Your source says this programming is still to arrive?

What did he say and how reliable a source is it. Please tell, you got me worried. Car is going in for a new box on monday :?

Did your dealer simply replace V6 free of charge or was it more complicated than that?


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

CamV6 said:


> Your source says this programming is still to arrive?
> 
> What did he say and how reliable a source is it. Please tell, you got me worried. Car is going in for a new box on monday :??


Apologies for butting in here, but I believe that I'm Steve's source :roll:

Yes, I have reliable news that new software and codes are on the way, but I don't know the exact date when they will arrive at the dealers. However, from what I was told it could be very soon indeed 

BTW, Steve, this new car of yours looks super [smiley=thumbsup.gif] 
I defo prefer it to the "old" one!!


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## TT Law (Sep 6, 2003)

CamV6 said:


> Did your dealer simply replace V6 free of charge or was it more complicated than that?


Not very complicated really. As I said the dealer is excellant. I only had to make a very small contribution to the deal to cover wear and tear for 11700 miles.

It pays to have a good dealer when you are in discussions with Audi CS.

The part that shocked me the most was the trade in value of my DSG. Â£24200  .

Dani - Thanks for the comments. The manual is great and a bit special with the exclusive paint & trim.

Steve


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## aidb (Mar 19, 2003)

The new car looks brill Steve. 

Any chance of some more pics? (some more interior too) 

Probably best to post as new topic.


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## 3.2TTC (Oct 15, 2003)

CamV6 said:


> A lot of you are experiencing something quite different to that which fivelittlefish and I complain of I think.
> 
> the hesitation i get is when accelerating the car starts to accelerate, then whilst still under power, it hits what feels like a massive massive flat spot and the revs get retarded and then pick up.
> 
> No way did any demonstrator behave like that!


Just seen this post - this is exactly what I am getting and also when pulling away quick but not 'flat out' - like when someone calls you out in front of them.
I can feel the engine being retarded - only picks up above 3000 RPM.

So WTF is going on?


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## fivelittlefish (May 15, 2002)

> Just seen this post - this is exactly what I am getting and also when pulling away quick but not 'flat out' - like when someone calls you out in front of them.
> I can feel the engine being retarded - only picks up above 3000 RPM.
> 
> So WTF is going on?


No one seems to know WTF is going on. The only way to deal with the hesitation is to expect it and drive accordingly - which is what I do now. Catches me out a lot less these days..


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## HardDrive (May 10, 2002)

My V6 has just come back from the dealer as it was hesitating upto 3000 RPM but they couldn't find a fault. They have checked the gearbox oil and done a 'reset' of the gearbox software but that's it. I've only driven it a few miles and it seems OK at the moment.


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## 3.2TTC (Oct 15, 2003)

fivelittlefish said:


> > Just seen this post - this is exactly what I am getting and also when pulling away quick but not 'flat out' - like when someone calls you out in front of them.
> > I can feel the engine being retarded - only picks up above 3000 RPM.
> >
> > So WTF is going on?
> ...


Thing is - after almost 8 months of driving - I am used to the normal hesitation as the gearbox sets to go - but in the last month & a half this new hesitancy is far from normal - and getting used to it means occasionally having to think Reliant Robin power not V6 TT - that takes a bit of doing - especially when it happens only occasionally. Will it....wont it....? not just on pulling from a junction - also when on the go. Not right to just get used to it I think.


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## fivelittlefish (May 15, 2002)

> Not right to just get used to it I think.


I agree, that's why I said 'expect' it, not 'get used to it'

:?


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

Any news on the new software update guys?

I would bet that one of the 'fixes' will be a software rule of a minimum of 1500 -1600 rpm before any upchange to overcome the 30mph in 6th fiasco and this should be dead easy to reprogramme in.

Any thoughts??


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

I too have no idea wtf is going on. I drive in manual all the time now and tend not to have a problem - My issues come when the box does the driving for me. Main hate is the 30 MPH in 6th issue. I still can't get mine to hesitate on demand - It just does it, when I least need it.


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## Peres (Feb 26, 2004)

Matthew said:


> I too have no idea wtf is going on. I drive in manual all the time now and tend not to have a problem - My issues come when the box does the driving for me. Main hate is the 30 MPH in 6th issue. I still can't get mine to hesitate on demand - It just does it, when I least need it.


Same here, manual all the time except traffic jams

No news on software update from my dealer, new gear box on order...


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## CamV6 (Oct 26, 2003)

Well the hesitation I get which includes retarded revs also happens even when using mnual mode.

:?


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## kelvin (Sep 23, 2003)

I am on my second box and both have suffered from all of te characteristics described in this thread. I like others have found ways of working around them. I decided to contact my dealer after looking at the thread again and he gave me a phone number to ring 0800 699888 which I think is customer services. Anyway they said that Technical Support have *today* issued 'fresh information' regarding this issue which has not yet been released to the dealerships. They said I should book my car in and tell the Service Manager to contact Technical Support before carrying out any work on the vehicle. This I have done.

Hope this is useful.


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## 3.2TTC (Oct 15, 2003)

CamV6 said:


> Well the hesitation I get which includes retarded revs also happens even when using mnual mode.
> 
> :?


I get this - intermittantly. I have just run 2 tanks of Optimax through, had the dealer change the MAF, put Millers Octane Plus in to the current tank of Optimax to get 100 Octane, had all the plugs out and reseated them, (closed up the gap a bit on one - though they all seem way bigger 'gapped' than I would have thought).
The result has been - no delay yet!!  [smiley=mexicanwave.gif]

I think it might only be a work around though. The engine still sounds more "throaty" than it did and vibrates more - problem is.... once you start to listen you can 'sense' all soughts of things :?


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## 3.2TTC (Oct 15, 2003)

kelvin said:


> I am on my second box and both have suffered from all of te characteristics described in this thread. I like others have found ways of working around them. I decided to contact my dealer after looking at the thread again and he gave me a phone number to ring 0800 699888 which I think is customer services. Anyway they said that Technical Support have *today* issued 'fresh information' regarding this issue which has not yet been released to the dealerships. They said I should book my car in and tell the Service Manager to contact Technical Support before carrying out any work on the vehicle. This I have done.
> 
> Hope this is useful.


Will do the same I reckon - thanks


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## Peres (Feb 26, 2004)

kelvin said:


> I am on my second box and both have suffered from all of te characteristics described in this thread. I like others have found ways of working around them. I decided to contact my dealer after looking at the thread again and he gave me a phone number to ring 0800 699888 which I think is customer services. Anyway they said that Technical Support have *today* issued 'fresh information' regarding this issue which has not yet been released to the dealerships. They said I should book my car in and tell the Service Manager to contact Technical Support before carrying out any work on the vehicle. This I have done.
> 
> Hope this is useful.


Very useful Kelvin - cheers

Mine's going in for a new box - I've alerted the service manager to your findings. Good on'ya :wink:


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## fivelittlefish (May 15, 2002)

> am on my second box and both have suffered from all of te characteristics described in this thread. I like others have found ways of working around them. I decided to contact my dealer after looking at the thread again and he gave me a phone number to ring 0800 699888 which I think is customer services. Anyway they said that Technical Support have today issued 'fresh information' regarding this issue which has not yet been released to the dealerships. They said I should book my car in and tell the Service Manager to contact Technical Support before carrying out any work on the vehicle. This I have done.


Anyone had any luck with ACS over this? I just phoned them and they denied all knowledge. 
"If the car has a problem then you should take it to the dealer, sir"
"Yes, I've done that, they say there's nothing wrong"
"That may very well be the case sir"
"I'm just trying to find out if there's been an update to my logged hesitation problem"
"I have no information on that sir, your dealer will be able to assist you sir"
"But they've already told me that there's nothing... actually there's no point in me arguing with you is there?"
"No sir"

 
:?


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## Peres (Feb 26, 2004)

fivelittlefish said:


> Anyone had any luck with ACS over this? I just phoned them and they denied all knowledge.


Five, my dealer said the same thing - 'there's no new info...'


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## kelvin (Sep 23, 2003)

My car goes in next Wednesday. When I asked the dealer what Technical Support had said, he was very vague. He said they would be doing a number of tests throughout the day and reporting the results back to Technical Support but at this point in time they did not know what the test were. 
:? 
I will keep you informed.


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## harco (Jun 16, 2002)

I suppose I should touch wood and count my lucky stars but I've had none of these problems in 5000 miles of perfect DSGery. It could just be me refusing to accept reality so I wonder, is there anyone else out there with a faultless DSG box :?:

I've never noticed any hesitation and whenever I put my foot down the car takes off, especially with the kickdown in D which I truly love. My car only seems to change into 6th at about 30 if I'm ambling along accelerating slowly - which is fine and what I want, but if I'm accelerating hard it doesn't - which is what I expect. I'm not sure I've ever done the taking my foot off the gas, coasting and then flooring it thing, so I'm going to try it tomorrow.


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## maersk (Feb 1, 2004)

8) 
Cross figers.
Me too, but it is an A3 DSG TDI.
Cracking gearbox, Gromit!
:roll:


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

Harco,

I am confident they all do this, but will stand corrected. Try it exactly this way to experience your 'first' DSG 'issue'.

Driving along in any gear, D or manual, doesn't matter.

Take your foot off the gas so you are coasting.

Tab down a gear (or 2) on the paddle or stick.

Immediately, put your foot hard on the gas.

Experience a delay of around 1 second (guaranteed).

On the 30mph in 6th thing. Agreed, if you are in D and put your foot down a bit harder, it will change up at 2k rpm, 3krpm or however hard you put your foot down, which is fine and you don't hit the 30mph in 6th.

But, there are times in heavy traffic where you just cannot drive like that and with a light, gentle throttle, it is changing up too early.

It's cheesing me off now, so I am mostly driving around in manual.

Glad to hear you are still happy with the motor, 'cus so am I really. These are just minor gripes 

Cheers.

Baj.


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

bajers said:


> Harco,
> 
> I am confident they all do this, but will stand corrected. Try it exactly this way to experience your 'first' DSG 'issue'.
> 
> ...


I'd agree with that.


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## kelvin (Sep 23, 2003)

Well I have just returned my A2 courtesy car and collected the V6. The dealer says that the technician has been working all day with Technical Support but have found no problem with my car. They have reset the basic settings whatever that means. They say that Technical Support have been trying to find out who at Customer Services told me that there was "Fresh information" regarding this subject but could not find anyone. Technical Support say that prior to my case they were unaware of this issue and noone has passed on complaints to them until today. They have opened a file on the subject and will investigate it if anyone else reports similar problems. So come on everyone get your complaints in to Tech Support.

I am very disapointed but somehow not surprised at this result.

Kelvin


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## fivelittlefish (May 15, 2002)

> Technical Support say that prior to my case they were unaware of this issue and noone has passed on complaints to them until today. They have opened a file on the subject and will investigate it if anyone else reports similar problems. So come on everyone get your complaints in to Tech Support.


Absolute rubbish - I have personally spoken to Tech Support about this issue as has CamV6. They bloody well do know about it.
:evil:


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## harco (Jun 16, 2002)

Bajers - you're right. It's not perfect. Bugger. I tried the coasting malarkey and it turned out exactly as you said - about a second's hesitation.  

  But...and I think it's a big but...it doesn't happen if you kickdown. Not in mine anyway. If you're in D and use the kickdown instead of paddling down a couple of gears it takes off like a rocket whether you've coasted or not. That's why I'd never noticed it before - because when I want a bit of instant bite I always use the kickdown.

What I also discovered tonight was that if you're in 6th at about 30 - 40 mph, take your foot off the gas and coast for a while, quickly paddle down to 4th and then kickdown (rather than just giving it a lot of pedal) it instantly changes down to 2nd and takes off like a screaming rocket. I'm not sure what would happen at higher speeds - I didn't want to try it because the engine wasn't properly warmed up - but I'd be surprised if it didn't respond instantly.

For me, this means that you're right, you can get the car to hesitate momentarily in those specific circumstances. But you don't have to. I realise this may not be perfect if that's the way you would like to drive but fortunately for me it's not a problem I'll ever encounter unless I deliberately try to.

Similarly with the changing up early thing - believe it or not (though I did post saying this a good few months ago) I think the opposite. I think it often holds 5th too long. In fact, I regularly use the paddle to put it into 6th manually because I know I don't need to be in a lower gear - when driving up slight hills for instance when I can see the hill is going to level out before the car feels the need to stop accelerating. I can't see the point of revving the engine higher than it needs to when I know that changing up won't cause it to labour. I know there are times when you want a bit more control from a lower gear than the conditions indicate to the car it needs, but surely that's the beauty of DSG - you take over with manual and change down yourself (or up in my case!). I suppose some sort of programmable parameters might be the answer that keps everyone happy.

Anyway, after all that I'm pleased you're still happy with your black beauty - it certainly looks the business - and like you I've been converted from being a complete manual man to someone who will never happily revert to all that superflous left foot exercise.


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## CamV6 (Oct 26, 2003)

Firstly - Bajers, I know the hesitation you speak of and can make mine do this every time, but that is not the issue I complain of, and neither does five, I believe. The hesitation I get is caused even when only accelerating a little as opposed opposed to hard, can be from rolling or from standstill.

Secondly, Five is absolutely right...........


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

Guys,

Yep, the way round this Harcs is to use kickdown and mine is the same as yours. Instant power if you do it this way, so this delay thing, I have adapted my driving style so it is not really a major issue now.

It sounds like the 30mph in 6th is not common to all cars though if yours holds onto the gears.

Mine was ok for the first couple of weeks from new and then it seemed to 'learn' my driving style (mostly stop/start town work) and started changing up too early. Maybe our day to day usages are different Harco.

There has been discussion on this 'learning' thing before on these threads.

Anyway, Five, the Audi CS thing saying they know nothing about the issues is complete bolloks, because I have e-mailed them and talked to them about it. I have also sent them another e-mail to-day.

Cam, can you explain exactly how to replicate your problem and I will try it mine and let you know. Sorry, but not quite sure what you mean.

I am coming round to the fact that all of these problems may be inherent in all our cars and it's just that we may be driving them differently and expalining them differently on here.

Into perspective though guys. I still think DSG is magical with a capital MMMM... The other peeps with manual cars must think we have bought a right bag of nails, which is not the case (IMHO).

I would still never go back to a manual (by choice) and I actually look forward to going to work in a morning now, just to take the car out.

IMO once again, the 3.2 V6 is a marvellous place to spend time 8)

Cheers chaps.

Baj.


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## CamV6 (Oct 26, 2003)

Bajers, that is exactly the point - I cannot explain exactly how to re-create the prob I complain of. You go to pull away, give it a little gas, sometimes its fine and off you go with the usual power, sometimes give it a little gas, revs go up and car is trying to accelerate buit is being held back by something. You do get some little bit of acceleration, but not commensurate with the amount of throttle being used. Feels like you atre dragging a 10 ton wieght as you accelerate.

Bajers, perhaps you could try and accept that what you experienced is NOT the same as what Five and I suffer from? dont mean to be rude, buit Audi CS do rad these posts (regardless of what thay may say in public) and comments such as yours from people who are actually talking about something different are not helping our cause.


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## fivelittlefish (May 15, 2002)

> ou go to pull away, give it a little gas, sometimes its fine and off you go with the usual power, sometimes give it a little gas, revs go up and car is trying to accelerate buit is being held back by something. You do get some little bit of acceleration, but not commensurate with the amount of throttle being used.


Yep - exactly.

BTW I tried the 'kick down' in D, this morning. ... and got the same hesitation... Revs went up, but the power was being held away from the transmission for the usual 1.5 secs or so.


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## andya (Jun 17, 2003)

fivelittlefish said:


> > ou go to pull away, give it a little gas, sometimes its fine and off you go with the usual power, sometimes give it a little gas, revs go up and car is trying to accelerate buit is being held back by something. You do get some little bit of acceleration, but not commensurate with the amount of throttle being used.
> 
> 
> Yep - exactly.
> ...


Surely this 'hesitation' is the time taken for the box to drop into and select the lower gear needed for acceleration. It may be clever but if you did the same thing in a manual you would have a 'delay' whilst you change down before you could boot the throttle?


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## fivelittlefish (May 15, 2002)

> urely this 'hesitation' is the time taken for the box to drop into and select the lower gear needed for acceleration. It may be clever but if you did the same thing in a manual you would have a 'delay' whilst you change down before you could boot the throttle?


Fine, and I agree - but then why doesn't it do it all the time? It's not the hesitation per se, it's the fact that I don't know when it's going to do it.
:?


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

Met up with Scavenger for a beer last night and did some testing on the way back. I can get it to hesitate on manual but not on demand; Seems to retard the acceleration at lower revs but I don't know what I am doing to get it to act that way.

This is a toughie - It won't misbehave for my dealer so I feel at a loss. In manual I often don't notice the issue but it is there sometimes. It appears that Audi CS are not interested so what do we all do? If there is a software UG ont he way, I wonder if we'd all get to ever hear about it? I can't imagine Audi sending us all letters offering it.

These intermittent/inconsistent issues are the ones which always take longest to sort out.


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## CamV6 (Oct 26, 2003)

no, no, no.

The hesitation I experience is nothing to do with gear selection. The gear is selected, the car is under power and being dragged forward by the front wheels but does not make proper progress. As I say, imagine pulling away whist having a 10 ton wieght tied to back of car.

The gear is selected and car is driving, so gear selection is not my issue. I am not waiting for the DSG to find the gear.........


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

CamV6 said:


> no, no, no.
> 
> The hesitation I experience is nothing to do with gear selection. The gear is selected, the car is under power and being dragged forward by the front wheels but does not make proper progress. As I say, imagine pulling away whist having a 10 ton wieght tied to back of car.
> 
> The gear is selected and car is driving, so gear selection is not my issue. I am not waiting for the DSG to find the gear.........


"No, No, No"! I can almost feel the angst Cam! 

I know what you're getting at though, this is what I meant by the acceleration being retarded. It's like you get with a normal clutch when it's slipping (at least on mine). You put your foot down but the power delivery feels weak. I alsop get this weird gear thing too though. Whatever it is, something in that box or the controller just isn't right.


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## jimfew (Mar 5, 2004)

CamV6 said:


> no, no, no.
> 
> The hesitation I experience is nothing to do with gear selection. The gear is selected, the car is under power and being dragged forward by the front wheels but does not make proper progress. As I say, imagine pulling away whist having a 10 ton wieght tied to back of car.
> 
> The gear is selected and car is driving, so gear selection is not my issue. I am not waiting for the DSG to find the gear.........


Cam,

Can I ask you and the others here, if you have the window down (or roof if its a TTR) can you detect any squeek (the best I can do to describe it is a metallic scraping sound which lasts for 1 second and could be mistaken for a mouse) from the gearbox when you get the "10 ton weight" effect"? You won't hear it with the roof up or windows closed and its better if you are parked next to a wall so that the sound is reflected back to you.

I was getting very very similar problems to you at low revs, now and again it would just not move and even became jerky at slow speeds in heavy traffic. I did have other hesitiation issues as well.

If you don't get any noise then I am sorry to have troubled you.

Jim.


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## johncoote69 (Jul 31, 2004)

don't take any crap from your dealer. Keep a record of visits, time car off the road, any extra cost incurred and take it to the dealer principal. They'll probably do buger all, but you can the ask Customer Services to deal with it on your behalf as you have done all you can.
Just had major probs with a dealer - now all sorted - see my thread. Good luck, and any help i can give, let me know. JC


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## CamV6 (Oct 26, 2003)

jimfew,

yes i do get a bit of that sound when you can hear the gearbox pre-selecting but it is not associated to the lagging prob, and I have never heard them at same time.

Annoyingly the original box never made that sound!!!


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## jimfew (Mar 5, 2004)

CamV6 said:


> jimfew,
> 
> yes i do get a bit of that sound when you can hear the gearbox pre-selecting but it is not associated to the lagging prob, and I have never heard them at same time.
> 
> Annoyingly the original box never made that sound!!!


Hi Cam,

It did not always give me any lag problems and the squeek wasn't always there but it get get louder and the pre-selection of gears and the "10 ton weight" effect got worse as time went by.

I suggest you just keep an ear on it and see if it is getting worse. If you do need to take it back to the dealer, at least you can ask them to look at the gearbox oil carefully when they drain it for signs of wear.

Only a suggestion though!

Jim.


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## bajers (Nov 22, 2003)

CamV6 said:


> Bajers, perhaps you could try and accept that what you experienced is NOT the same as what Five and I suffer from? dont mean to be rude, buit Audi CS do rad these posts (regardless of what thay may say in public) and comments such as yours from people who are actually talking about something different are not helping our cause.


Not sure your problems are different to mine, but fine, I'll keep out of the discussion then.


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## RobbieTT (Sep 6, 2003)

Nooooooo!

Well its been 9 months since I had a DSG hick-up (no gear, flashing DIS). Not missed a beat since. I have no problem with hesitation, as I keep a little throttle on for the 'roundabout moment'. But no element of 'driving around the problem' helped last night.

Normal accel from junction, then it lost nearly all drive. It was if I was riding the clutch. Revs climbed high but with very little power to wheels. Tried everything.

Well miffed - had gearbox problems on my 225 too!

Robbie


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