# Nurburgring Report!!!



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Well, as promised i'm writing a brief report on how the M5 & myself faired at Nurburgring.

The bottom line is that the car was beyond belief & performed far better than expected & my expectations were high to start with.

Journey to Nurburg was fun with some very high speed sections through Germany & touching speeds of close to 180MPH. Had a small moment when one of our party (in a 996 GT3) decided to lose his front splitter at 176MPH & i was 4 car lengths behind him . Luckily the splitter flew right & passed all of us with no damage but swerving at 176MPH makes for some missed heart beats.

We arrived at our hotel on Wednesday afternoon so decided to check in, freshen up & kill a couple of hours before the Ring opened at 5ish. We popped down to Manthey Racing to find a new splitter for the GT3 & sat in their reception were a Silver Carrera GT & a White GT3RS. Got the splitter then back to the hotel to fit it correctly.

Arrived at the track just before opening time & luckily it was quiet so managed 3 dry laps with the aim of better understanding the M5's abilities & dynamics. Kept the car in P400 & max DSC for pretty much all track time over the 4 days. She is plenty able to throw her ar$e out quite quickly even with max DSC, however it does become quite predictable & very easy to recover with a slight flick of the wheel. What was surprising is that the car did require driver input once the tail was more than a couple of feet out as the DSC did not appear to recover any drift larger than a few inches, although i'm sure the DSC actually made all recoveries somewhat easier. This dod give rise to plenty of giggles during track time.

Thursday & Fridays weather was not kind & almost all laps on these days were either damp, wet or pi$$ing down so i was really able to work on my lines round the track & get to grips with the M5's wet weather handling. Again she performed beautifully & the few slightly scary moments were easily recovered. The bad weather had given rise to almost carnage on the track with every lap i did witnessing between 2 & 4 crashes which is quite some crashing. I don't think their were any major injuries all week, however the low-loader & local body shop was kept busy all week & the track closed quite a few times for vehicle recovery. Most of the offs i'd guess were purely driver error in the bad weather (not listing what cars went off for obvious reasons).

On the Friday afternoon it started to dry up & i decided to try a few quicker laps (still only in P400 with DSC on) but as i'd had some tuition 1st thing on Friday i thought i'd try out what i'd learnt & take the racing lines i'd been shown & use the M5's dynamics to better use. The difference was almost night & day & given learning to drive my car & understanding her performance/handling characteristics were the sole aim of this trip, i acheived exactly what i set out to do. I once again had a few moments due to pushing harder but nothing to scare me & all was simple to recover. The most amusing was the entry to a fast sweeping right hander, coming off a sharp left then right which was damp, where i applied the power a fraction too early & too strongly & as i'd finished telling my passenger we were understeering slightly, the whole car went into a fast drift of about 45 degrees with all 4 wheels drifting but again i manged to flick her back & everything was once again composed (this was a huge giggle moment).

I can only state again that the car was simply awesome & it's no surprise they use M5's as the Ring Taxis & i was even lucky enough to get a passenger Ring Taxi lap which proved beyond doubt that i could only ever get to 50% of the M5's abilities if i'm lucky.

Only bothered to get a few photos as i was busy driving & i managed 24 laps this trip bringing mt Ring total to 36. I'll defo be going back & i'm hopeful i'll be their again within the next 8 weeks.

Still not taken photos of my car, but she's filthy right now & after her clean this afternoon if the rain stops, i'll try to upload a few.


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## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

Nice report Paul - sounds like you had a blast :mrgreen:

Must have been scary having a splitter flying past at that speed - did it just rip off with the wind flow of 176mph :? 

Did you do any full laps with full bhp (whatever that is with DMS involved :roll: ) or did you stick to 400 all the time?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

NaughTTy said:


> Nice report Paul - sounds like you had a blast :mrgreen:
> 
> Must have been scary having a splitter flying past at that speed - did it just rip off with the wind flow of 176mph :?
> 
> Did you do any full laps with full bhp (whatever that is with DMS involved :roll: ) or did you stick to 400 all the time?


Was very scary. The Splitter appeared to not have been fitted properly & was possibly only connected to the GT3 by 4 studs so was never likely to stay on at those speeds. The new Manthey Racing one was fitted later that day & took some drilling  to get a good fit. We had the GT3 up on bricks to fit the new splitter 

I did apply Max Power a couple of times, mainly on the start/finish straight but was too nervous to deploy nutty mode for a full lap. With the DMS re-map, even P400 mode is putting out close to 450 horses so that was plenty & i felt 548BHP was too much & too scary for a mainly damp-very wet track.


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

This was'nt you was it :wink:


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

This was one of the best 'ring trips I've been on. The list of cars in our group helped :

Boxster S
Boxster S
M5
RS4 (B5)
RS4 (B5)
RS6
S3
S3
S4 (B6)
911 GT3

So with a nice group of cars (plus all the exotica in the car park) it was gonna be good. I had the instruction on Thursday lunch time and the instructor suggested that since my track knowledge was good but my drivcing technique could be improved this is what we mainly worked on. It totally changed the way I drive it. When he drove me around it was amazing how much quicker he was but so in control. He has been teaching there for 12 years and does know every cm of the place but it was enlightening to see a proper driver doing it justice.

He tweaked some of my lines and adjusted the turn in points on many bends by a few metres here and there. Some of these worked so well as the odd metre meant you missed a certain bump that meant you could carry more speed more safely. He really made the weekend for me as I could then go out and practise what he'd taught.

I safely achieved my goal of 100 laps (actually 105 now) so I've now completed over 99% of them :roll: :lol: I now feel more likely to safely complete future ones than I did before. I was pushing the car before and now I'm driving it within it's limits and can explore mine better.

It was a trechorous weekend with crashes all over. The one iffy one was a biker I saw being attended to. I was informed it was a fatality but have since heard he's still a hanging on. :?

It really is car Mecca.
Apart from the counless M5, M3, 911 cars there was also Lambo Gallardo, Lambo Diablo, Fezza 355, Fezza 360 not be mention all the Evo's, Scoobies, Corvettes, etc etc

I really do love that place. Last September I thought I'd had all the enjoyment I could get and that the risks weren't worth going back. I'm now very much back in love.

Roll on the next one.


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## gcp (Aug 8, 2002)

Nice write up Pauls, whens the next one ?

Was the weather as bad as last September ?


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## The Silver Surfer (May 14, 2002)

Good write up & interesting reading, Mr. C.


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

Sounds like you guys had an excellent time. But with the weather how it was. I'm glad i bottled it


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> This was one of the best 'ring trips I've been on. The list of cars in our group helped :
> 
> Boxster S
> Boxster S
> ...


And the bright yellow Carrera GT, silver Carrera GT & bright yellow Ferrari F40 & plenty of GT2's, GT3's & 2 GT3 RS's.

As for the weather, it was not as bad as September as the rain was more on & off, but out of my 24 laps this trip, probably only around 4 very totally dry, perhaps 6 in mildly moist conditions & the rest ranged from damp to very wet.


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

Sounds like you guys had fun. Glad you made it home incident free and with smiles on your faces.



W7 PMC said:


> ....... And the bright yellow Carrera GT .......


I came across one of these yesterday which in-turn was playing with a tricked up Fezza 355. The Porsche was f'in quick. He nailed it past some cars and I was behind him on my R1, nothing between us really from 60 upto some other unmentionable speed.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

I only took 5 photo's on my camera on the whole trip and 3 of them were about how much beer you can get in a boxster!

This one's probably worth posting though. 8)

Ring Pic (large so posted as a link)


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

genocidalduck said:


> Sounds like you guys had an excellent time. But with the weather how it was. I'm glad i bottled it


There was a German guy there in a black 180 TTC. He did countless laps. That makes his 180TT faster around the 'ring than you. :lol:


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## stephengreen (May 6, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> I only took 5 photo's on my camera on the whole trip and 3 of them were about how much beer you can get in a boxster!
> 
> This one's probably worth posting though. 8)
> 
> Ring Pic (large so posted as a link)


Scotty. is that a WHITE M3 csl in the background???????


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

stephengreen said:


> Scotty. is that a WHITE M3 csl in the background???????


SG, the car isn't white, it is the usual CSL grey and has folia applied to it. Two of these CSL's(see second pic) are seen at the ring quit eoften as they are owned by the same company(Allfolia, I think?). Brakes are cool too, apparantly straight off a race Porsche. 

Pic one

Pic two


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Shame we can't specify our number plates like the Swedes. :?


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## Gaz225 (Feb 11, 2006)

Great reports on the ring and brill pics 8) 8)

I'd love too have a go but i'd be scared incase i put it into a barrier, if i did go round i'd probably drive slow enough to drive miss daisy :lol: :lol:


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> I only took 5 photo's on my camera on the whole trip and 3 of them were about how much beer you can get in a boxster!
> 
> Ring Pic (large so posted as a link)


Could be handy, a question I've pondered many-a-time :wink:

Care to share? 

Nice write up s from the two Pauls...I've got to go!

Dave


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

Just got back myself, a day early. Lost third gear after 3 laps, ho hum.

Hired a 320d which is the most disappointing car I've ever driven, what a pile of shite. It did provide for a little amusement around the Ring and was not bad today around Spa either :twisted:

All in all, a bit of a disaster, but got back in one piece.


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

scoTTy said:


> genocidalduck said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like you guys had an excellent time. But with the weather how it was. I'm glad i bottled it
> ...


Gawd Dammit....The shame. I should have gone. But i had an excuse, i couldnt get out of work


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> stephengreen said:
> 
> 
> > Scotty. is that a WHITE M3 csl in the background???????
> ...


Yep, that's both of the cars. They looked awesome, however the laps i encountered them on track, they were not pushing very hard but the weather was not good so perhaps they were learning their lines.

The cars did look far more white than grey though Kev, but no idea what colour BMW call it.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Carlos - sorry to hear of your problems. Maybe you should have done to ringracing to hire one of their track prepped cars.

Dave - the Boxster easily swalled 6 square cases of beer plus some food items. I'll try and get the pics up later although they're a bit dark due to being on the lower level of the carpark


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Carl,

Sorry to hear about your Scooby problems. At least you got back safe & sound.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> The cars did look far more white than grey though Kev, but no idea what colour BMW call it.


Paul, I think you have misunderstood - 'Folia' is a type of wrapping (Plastic/Vinyl laminate), so the cars are CSL grey underneath, with white wrapping all over.

A chap in the main forum HERE has done it to his black TT.

It's becoming quite common in Europe, as it only costs about 1000 euros to do, and can be ripped off when you get bored with it.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > The cars did look far more white than grey though Kev, but no idea what colour BMW call it.
> ...


Understand now. The cars did look stunning though & the decals kinda set them off. The one with the different coloured wing mirrors looked the best.


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

Got back late last night having thrown in the towel 24 hours early: there's only so much standing water on track and motorway you can take :?

It was an excellent trip however, very disappointing and frustrating on 2 fronts. Sadly, 2 of the cars from our 4 car group are making their way back to blighty on the back of a low loader: Carl's gearbox has a bag o' nails in it and Ben's (S1 Elise) newly built 220 bhp engine went pop  Also the weather was "scheiÃŸe"

Managed a total of 15 laps: 6 of which were in the wet. Despite the frustration of the weather, it did provide opportunity to learn the circuit with lilttle traffic. Tooling around in the wet I witnessed crash, after crash after crash. The biker you refer to was hit by another car following a crash of his own. The prevalent gossip pointed towards another fatality. 
Whilst some of these crashes appeared to be result of lack of talent, most of them appeared to be because of overly aggressive driving. Is it me or is the on-track behaviour getting worse every year?

One one lap, I overtook an M5 on the way out of Bergwerk and then about 10 secs later got held up by a CTR. On the run into Klostertal (left hander) the CTR indicated right, I turned into the corner (for those of you who know it, it is a 4th gear entry, confidence dab on the brakes at anything between 80-120mph depending on talent). A milisecond after turning in and setting my line, I glanced into the rear view mirror and was surprised to see....no M5!
Where had it gone? In my peripheral vision I caught the M5's bonnet on my inside lurching forwards. Instinctively I straightened the wheel then instantly recorrected; I would have been into the barrier otherwise.

I looked across and was rather surprised to see the TOP of the M5's dashboard....(not easy when your head is 3 feet off the ground BTW) 
* M5 CUP* (and I have no problem shaming you publicly by revealing your numberplate) was on 2 wheels having anhiliated the kerb at 90mph with nowhere to go. Idiot :x

Despite the weather, it was still a great trip, further enlightened by having Sabine Schmitz serve us Warsteiner and fillet steak every night 

On the car front, despie having spent the entire first day chelping that I was so much slower than had I had the Evo, I am very pleased with the VXR and in the end, feel:
a) Quicker than I did in the Evo and..
b) A far more rewarding, smoother and more raw driving expeience.

Those of us with working cars enjoyed a trackday at Spa on Tuesday which again, despite being SOAKING wet, was great fun: the tarmac surface was substantially grippier than the ring, it's an awe-inspiring circuit and I for one will be going back as soon as I can this summer. Preferably when it's dry :roll:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Stu-Oxfordshire said:


> Got back late last night having thrown in the towel 24 hours early: there's only so much standing water on track and motorway you can take :?
> 
> It was an excellent trip however, very disappointing and frustrating on 2 fronts. Sadly, 2 of the cars from our 4 car group are making their way back to blighty on the back of a low loader: Carl's gearbox has a bag o' nails in it and Ben's (S1 Elise) newly built 220 bhp engine went pop  Also the weather was "scheiÃŸe"
> 
> ...


Stu,

That particular M5 was also their whilst we were in attendance as i recognise the plate. IIRC the driver was ageing somewhat, being in his late 50's & if i'm not confusing the car, he does have oodles of Ring experience & brought along a nutty Track Supra with the M5 being the towing car (did it have a tow-bar). Not condoning any bad driving but if it's the same fella then he's a compitent Ring Veteran.

Also you forgot to point out that it was an E39 M5 you almost tangled with, not an E60. A totally different class of responsible driver own the E60 :wink: as many E39's are now owned by hooligans :lol:

Glad you got back OK & sorry about the weather as it sounds like it didn't change after we left. Agree with the carnage, it's a real eye opener & very scary but it does keep drivers with a touch of common sense, on the straight & narrow. Pleased to hear the VX went well, I had a feeling it would & i like you had the same experience with rewarding driving as the M5 felt so much more involving than the RS6.


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> Stu-Oxfordshire said:
> 
> 
> > Got back late last night having thrown in the towel 24 hours early: there's only so much standing water on track and motorway you can take :?
> ...


Fair point, but I don't care less whether it had been Hans Stuck (spelling?) behind the wheel; it still does not excuse that type of behaviour....does it?


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

If it was Hans Stuck you could forgive the driving. Hard to do it properly if your neck can't move.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Stu-Oxfordshire said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Stu-Oxfordshire said:
> ...


True & I do agree, however having had a Ring Taxi lap, they don't stop or move for anyone & if you're in their way then they'd pretty much bully you to move very quickly or even as happened twice, overtake on the right hand side. I know they really do know what they're doing & probably are aware of the dangers, but with a white M5 storming up behind a novice, the outcome could be scary.

No excuse for what you experienced, but their are many who drive The Ring & believe they own the racing line.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

When they do this sort of thing all you can do is look on in admiration  8)


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## dubbers (Jul 30, 2005)

Here's a link to a few photo's I took at the weekend at the Ring. I'm guessing the red VXR belongs to Stu-Oxfordshire. If you want the full 8MP versions, send a PM.

Gotta say there were a few nutters at the weekend. For scare value there was a bloke+family in an english registered black Mazda 6. :? Must have thought he was a touring car with the amount of kerb he was taking - Very lucky not to have been bitten and spat out into the arnco.

Also saw/heard some p"ssed off sales rep, hammering a german registered new shape diesel passat into submission. The engine & tyres were screaming at every corner! 

http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i33/omlettebrothers/Nurburgring May 27-29 2006/


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

dubbers said:


> Also saw/heard some p"ssed off sales rep, hammering a german registered new shape diesel passat into submission. The engine & tyres were screaming at every corner!
> 
> http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i33/omlettebrothers/Nurburgring May 27-29 2006/


Cheers Dubbers! Yes the red VXR is me....top pics BTW. I have PM's you to ask for the hi-res ones.

Yes I saw the TDi Passat - he was ragging the arse off it - he came past me into Schwedenkreuz at well over 120mph (Which was the speed I was doing) and nearly binned it at aremberg. We caught him up at Bergwerk, overtook him and didn;t see it again but I saw it in the paddock afterwards and the cars was on it's knees :lol:

I am trying to work out where you took these pictures? I am wondering whether this is the final left hander at Hatzenbach however I usually run wide to the exit kerb on that corner and the slip angle on the steering wheel indicates I am trying to keep the car on the left on the exit of the apex for the next corner.....is it the first left hander at Adenaur-Forst? Is it Kallenhard?


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Nice pics.

It looks nice and dry but a lot busier than we had it. How were the queues?


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## dubbers (Jul 30, 2005)

Stu-Oxfordshire said:


> I am trying to work out where you took these pictures?


According to my map it was at Wehrseifen, about the 9km mark just leading into the Adenau/Breidscheid bridge section.

Weather was quite good on Sunday afternoon, a lot drier than Saturday!

Ed


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

dubbers said:


> Stu-Oxfordshire said:
> 
> 
> > I am trying to work out where you took these pictures?
> ...


Ah yes, Wehrseifen makes sense.....braking in a straight line from miss-hit-miss, late corner entry to the left hander then keep it left on the exit (which is where you took the pics) to get on the power early through the next right hander, which then takes you down to Breidscheid. I thought I had the lines there pretty good (it certainly felt like it) but a couple of these pics show a slightly early entry....hmmm something to work on for next time!



Scotty said:


> It looks nice and dry but a lot busier than we had it. How were the queues?


Not bad at all mate...didn't have to queue once to get off the track, esp as they had they mobile barrier in operation where if you are doing another lap you can go straight through - it really seemed to ease the flow of traffic.

That said, there was more cars there than I have ever seen before....both the immediate paddock and the newly gravelled car park opposite were full and there were cars parked on the side of the road for a good 300 metres on the road up to nurburg as well as similar distance on the feeder road off to the right which takes you towards Adenau.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Stu-Oxfordshire said:


> Not bad at all mate...didn't have to queue once to get off the track, esp as they had they mobile barrier in operation where if you are doing another lap you can go straight through - it really seemed to ease the flow of traffic.
> 
> That said, there was more cars there than I have ever seen before....both the immediate paddock and the newly gravelled car park opposite were full and there were cars parked on the side of the road for a good 300 metres on the road up to nurburg as well as similar distance on the feeder road off to the right which takes you towards Adenau.


We had the barrier but it was hardly used. As long as you can get off and cool down that's the main thing. I think they should restrict the car park to at least ticket holders if not something more severe.


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