# DSG Surging



## arod (Nov 20, 2012)

First of all, I have had the 04 V6 DSG for 3 and a half years now. I bought it with 50k miles on it and now it is up to 90k. I was planning on doing the scheduled maintenance for the DSG oil change and purchased the equipment to accomplish it, but unfortunately haven't had a chance to get around to it.

Now onto the problem i have been experiencing for the past couple of months. I began noticing a surging while driving where the RPM would oscillate up and down by 300-500 RPM for approximately 5-10 seconds. It was as if the clutch was being slipped temporarily over and over again. I average a couple of episodes per 15 minute drive (usually happens after the car gets warmed up a bit). The problem has been becoming more frequent the longer I continue to neglect it.

I have scanned my car with the VAG Com cable and came up with the following fault:
17100 - Transmission Input Speed Sensor (G182): Implausible Signal
P0716 - 000 - - - Intermittent

I also logged the transmission input speed block when the problem occurred. I have the results in an excel spreadsheet on another computer which i dont have access to currently. It basically just showed the input speed go from a steady 3000 rpm to 128 in one iteration, which clearly indicates that the sensor is reporting faulty data for some unknown reason.

I have done a ton of research on this issue and it seems a bit rare to only get this fault. The common problem I have read about usually involves a second fault with the clutch oil temperature monitoring sensor along with some flashing PRNDS on the dash (which i have never seen with my car).

I just wanted to post this to see if anyone else has experienced this exact issue. One member (35mphspeedlimit) seems to have had the same exact problem as me, but since i am a new member I am unable to message him to see how he got it resolved. It seems that my best bet is to take off the mechatronics unit and send it to ecutesting to be refurbed. I am wondering if there is anything to look for after I have pulled the unit that would save me from having to ship it off to ecutesting.

The mechatronics unit seems to be a black art, but has anyone on this forum tried to troubleshoot the mechatronics unit themselves?


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## koresample (Oct 20, 2012)

I have an '04 3.2 W/DSG and 63k miles. Had exactly the same problems, same codes. first replaced the input speed sensor/clutch temp sensor (both on the same board) and did a DSG service. The problem was still there so we replaced the Mechatronic and it has been perfect since. I tried to find a refurb'd mech first but nothing was available. Had to order the one I got in from Germany and wait 2 weeks. The OEM part number is not even offered anymore (at least for a NA TT, not sure about a UK version) and the replacement one was $1875 Canadian. Seems to be the public wallet flogging you have to take with most DSG's unfortunately. On the plus side; shifts are super fast and Sport mode shifts 1000 rpm higher now (6k instead of 5k).

Good luck!


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## Tritium (Apr 25, 2011)

arod said:


> First of all, I have had the 04 V6 DSG for 3 and a half years now. I bought it with 50k miles on it and now it is up to 90k. I was planning on doing the scheduled maintenance for the DSG oil change and purchased the equipment to accomplish it, but unfortunately haven't had a chance to get around to it.
> 
> Now onto the problem i have been experiencing for the past couple of months. I began noticing a surging while driving where the RPM would oscillate up and down by 300-500 RPM for approximately 5-10 seconds. It was as if the clutch was being slipped temporarily over and over again. I average a couple of episodes per 15 minute drive (usually happens after the car gets warmed up a bit). The problem has been becoming more frequent the longer I continue to neglect it.
> 
> ...


Ive PM'd 35speedlimit on your behalf so I hope he will check the thread and reply if he's able to help.
As you say the mechatronic unit seems a black art! A number of members including 'gogs' have had there's replaced. Steve (v6RUL) may be able to help.

Also if you havnt already, find a good independent Audi garage to do the work for you. There's a thread on the forum:
http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=49 worth checking for one near you.

best of luck, let me know here if i can help more ( tho' limited experience of DSG like most!)

BTW Creating a thread asking a specific person to answer may help

Brian


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## gogs (Dec 22, 2010)

I had my unit repaired by ECU testing, price from Audi for a new unit was terrifying !


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Awesome GTi seem to keep a few reconditioned/tested units on the shelf, which i believe are service exchange for approx £650. They will fit as well at additional cost..i think thats correct.
You have limited choices when you get a mecha fault up.
Disconnect battery for a minute or two, but this may just delay the inevitable.
Disconnect the connector on the mecha unit and attempt to clean the pins as there may be some corrosion.
Send to a recommended repairer.

I have recently replaced my unit with a new one, even though the existing was working, as i wanted to return to 100% peace of mind.
Steve


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## 35mphspeedlimit (Sep 25, 2010)

Evening arod (and thanks for the nudge tritium as whilst I do check the Mark 1 Forum from time to time I sometimes miss posts like this).

It is at times like this that all the frustrations (not to mention expense) that I faced last year come flooding back and it makes my blood boil that genuine Audi owners get fleeced for repairs year after year on a product that in the USA is now covered under warranty for 10 years! I very much regret arod that your symptoms and fault code (yes, just the one) are identical to the problem I had and which many others have also faced. Strangely enough I didn't notice the "pulsing" of the revs until almost the end. I too had no PRNDS fault which is why I firstly elected to try a gearbox oil change (£200 wasted) before realised that the problem was far more severe! My initial symptoms were a jumpy gearbox, particularly when moving from 1st into 2nd, especially on an incline and when the engine was hot. The problem gradually became more frequent (initailly once a fortnight and eventually two or three times a day) and progressively more violent and prolonged in nature.

The G182 input sensor is situated on the outside of the mechatronic box but there is no point in replacing it as it almost certainly won't fix the problem! Even on my small Island the local Indy had had previous experience in this regard and immediately informed me that my only option was to send to ECU Testing or replace. He also had another Audi (an A3 3.2V6) awaiting repairs at the same time. In many cases ECU Testing can fix for about £350 but in my case they quoted £900 and cited a knackered circuit box in addition to the input speed sensor. Given the cost of replacement (circa £2,300 - £2,500 fitted and with oil change) it still represented the cheaper solution and so we progressed on this basis. As you may already know the removal of the Mechatronic Unit is not easy and it has a pair of feet that are extremely fragile and, if damaged, the Unit cannot be refitted to the car. In my case the repairs were undertaken but the Unit returned with a broken foot and could not be fitted. The good news for me (if there was any) was that my Indy replaced the Unit for a new one so I git a brand new replacement for just under £2,000. Of course a fair proportion of the cost is in removing and replacing the Unit.

Given your circumstances I can only recommend that you start with ECU Testing and get a good Indy to remove the Unit for you. From what I can remember a new Unit alone costs circa £1,850. Good luck and let us know how you get on!


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## arod (Nov 20, 2012)

Sorry for the long delay before adding my thanks. All your inputs are definitely appreciated in resolving this.

Due to my current location (in the US), it is very difficult to find reputable (non-dealer) workshops to work on my car. As a result, I ended up attempting the removal myself. First of all, the official Audi Service Manual procedure is not good enough to remove the unit. I ended up having to drain the coolant to move some of the hoses at the radiator out of my way. I also had to remove the starter bolts to push the starter mount slightly out of the way. Part of the wheel well liner also needs to be removed so you can remove the oil pump cover and view the control arm as you are pulling the mechatronics unit out. Even after accomplishing all of this, I still needed about an extra inch to full remove the unit without damaging the control arm.

I removed both of the pendulum support bolts and placed a car jack towards the rear of the transmission and pushed it slightly forward. I also bent the refrigerant line at the bottom of the radiator slightly since it was in the way. Finally, I was able to get this damn unit out of my car!






























http://imgur.com/zzJr9

 is a link to more pictures I took during the removal process.

I am at the point where I am trying to decide if I want to attempt to fix the unit myself or send off to ecutesting for repair. Seeing as I live in the US and it is the Christmas/New Years holidays, I imagine it will take several weeks before I would even get it back.

I found this thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=252722 on these forums where it shows the DSG ECu exposed with some sort of potting/conformal coating on the electronics. I am still unable to send messages to individual users and would greatly appreciate it if someone could forward the following questions to Grahamstt on my behalf:

*- How did you remove the ECU cover? It appears to be glued on in some way.
- Have you ever repaired one of these units? If so, what was your method of removing the potting compound to gain access to the circuit board? 
- Also, assuming you are able to get the compound off and identify the culprit of the problem (e.g. cold solder joint for the input speed sensor), what type of material did you use to cover it back up with a similar potting material again?
*
Again, thanks for everyones input. I will update the thread as it continues to progress.


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## gogs (Dec 22, 2010)

Hi Arod,

I've sent your post on to Graham by PM

I had my unit repaired at ECU Testing as its a big job, I would not tackle thus in case it went terribly wrong!

Hopefully he will get back to you mate

Best of luck

Gordon


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Fingers crossed for ya.
Steve


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## gar1.s (Mar 11, 2010)

I had the same problems you described. 
I sent mine to ecu testing but it was returned with no fault found. 
I ended up getting a new one fitted.

Just a heads up mate, good luck


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## Marco34 (Apr 5, 2009)

At least these units are repairable these days. I wouldn't fancy handing over £1,800 for something that really shouldn't fail.


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## arod (Nov 20, 2012)

gar1.s said:


> I had the same problems you described.
> I sent mine to ecu testing but it was returned with no fault found.
> I ended up getting a new one fitted.
> 
> Just a heads up mate, good luck


Did you also try replacing the speed sensor prior to refitting a new unit? Also, what did you do with the old unit that was replaced?


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## arod (Nov 20, 2012)

Just to give you guys an update...

I ended up sending the mechatronics unit off to ECU Testing via FedEx. Shipping such a delicate item was quite fun, but thankfully I receive a huge discount for shipping. I received a call last week from ECU Testing. One of the engineers informed me that they had found the problem and needed my approval before attempting to repair it.

I asked him exactly what the problem was and he told me that one of the wires going into the unit had a flakey connection (presumably that white ribbon cable looking thing at the bottom center of the unit). Anyways, they have repaired it and I am scheduled to receive the unit today. I will take a closer look at it and see if I can't tell what exactly was repaired.

I will hopefully have this back on my car in the next couple of days and be driving the TT again! I will keep you posted on the results of the installation.


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## DazaHunter (Jan 9, 2013)

Hi Arod,they are exactly the same codes and symptons my v6 has been diagnosed with,the ecu is with ecu testing being repaired today,how long are they going to take with your unit?


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## arod (Nov 20, 2012)

I am halfway through the installation right now. ECU testing took 3-4 working days to receive, repair, and ship it back to me.


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## arod (Nov 20, 2012)

Final update: I managed to get the mechatronics unit installed in the car. I only had two stumbling blocks while installing everything back to original.

- There was little room to put the unit back in (I knew this would be the case from when I removed it). Again, I placed a jack under the rear of the transmission and was able to push it back far enough to provide room. This is where I noticed the retaining tabs for the G182 temperature sender wire were broken during removal.Luckily, I don't believe they are very important in the scheme of things.
- The tubular cross member installation took a couple of hours. I don't know if my car is different from other V6's, but reinstalling this is like a Chinese jigsaw puzzle.

With everything back together, I refilled the transmission with a custom built VAS6262 equivalent with parts/tubing from the local hardware store. I could post pictures of it in a couple of days for anyone interested. It cost about $15 to build.

Then, I refilled with the coolant I had removed during mechatronic removal. I started the car up and took it on a long ride (~30 mins) with no problems! I also drove to work today and there were no transmission issues. I am relieved to say that I believe the problem has finally been fixed! Finally enjoying the TT again.


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## nhaynes (Jan 12, 2014)

hi Arod,
My wife's V6 3.2L TT started with exactly symptoms: surging around 200-500rpm in light load during warm up and the same fault codes: 18148 clutch temp control and 17100 input turbine/speed sensor. We've lived with this for a little over a year but now the car mis-selects gears so really does need attention. We now also have more fault codes: 18149 clutch pressure adaption at limit and 17085 faulty control unit. We've already had the DSG re-adapted so I'm now considering getting the mechatronics unit out and sending it to ECU testing for repair.

My question is: Is your DSG still running sweet after your repair? I'd really appreciate your reply.

Thanks.


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## triplefan (Sep 3, 2008)

nhaynes said:


> hi Arod


Arod has only made 7 posts, all on this thread with the last one 2 years ago, I would strongly suggest unless you PM him he wont see this, if you have no PM facility I would be happy to do it for you


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## arod2 (Apr 26, 2020)

nhaynes said:


> hi Arod,
> My wife's V6 3.2L TT started with exactly symptoms: surging around 200-500rpm in light load during warm up and the same fault codes: 18148 clutch temp control and 17100 input turbine/speed sensor. We've lived with this for a little over a year but now the car mis-selects gears so really does need attention. We now also have more fault codes: 18149 clutch pressure adaption at limit and 17085 faulty control unit. We've already had the DSG re-adapted so I'm now considering getting the mechatronics unit out and sending it to ECU testing for repair.
> 
> My question is: Is your DSG still running sweet after your repair? I'd really appreciate your reply.
> ...


I hate to resurrect such an old thread. However, better late than never I suppose. I still own the TT and the DSG has been rock solid ever since I had the mechatronix unit repaired (7+ years). Going on 145k miles now.


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## Jam13 (Jan 14, 2018)

Glad to hear that your car has been behaving for all these years


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