# TT_CS 225 Coupe - Down to 1260 Kg



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi,

I am down at around 1380 Kg (225 Coupe) now (unladen) ~ 8L fuel, no driver, all normal fluids inc washer bottle full - I have removed a little more since I last weighed it hence my 'around' comment.

The rear ride height in particular is 'off-road' spec due to the weight loss and with the remaining weight loss plans I should get to about 1335 Kg (Although 1300 Kg is the target but difficult to see how to get there and still be Ok for sensible road use) for a road / track day car with most of it's interior retained / air con / all glass - some of which will be unsprung weight loss so the remainder won't all effect the ride height

I think I have little option but coilovers, but the rear spring / rate is my main consideration, the front coil over is no problem as the McPherson coil overs use std ground cylindrical springs - so anything sensible is possible rate / length, but the rear uses the non cylindrical (hyperboloiodal) type springs....

I am also looking at how I can modify the rear lower arms (lower spring platform) to try and make the std non coilover springs height adjustable if no immediate option is available.

Any real data gratefully received as I have searched for just about every option I can think of on here

Cheers


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

So inline with the rest of things currently being done I am working on the rear battery placement / layout.



Nothing really fixed in place properly but it looks like it will package OK



No totally decided on battery spec but my initial plan is to leave the battery in the front (but disconnected) whilst I trial a lighter weight alternative in the rear - and assuming I make the wiring such that I can switch between batteries then I can revert back to the standard battery if the rear battery isn't man enough - Then revise the spec and try again - winter / lights / heated seats / HRW etc...

Obviously once proven out then the front battery and associated clutter will be removed.

Anyone know the route the QS / V6 battery cable takes? Is it in the car / underneath - there is a grommet hole in the spare wheel well floor - but it might be blocked with fuel tank etc and not have a clear route back to the engine bay - I will have a poke around

Cheers


----------



## brushwood69 (Dec 17, 2012)

Hi,

I'm at 1340 on a weigh bridge before rear ballast removal. But this is no back seat, carpets, radio etc and dedicated for sprint and hillclimb in road going class so noisey! But have to keep most of trim. Don't think you will get anywhere near 1300 with a full strip!

Regards Brushwood


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi Brushwood,

Do you have any photos of your car, the interior etc... Interested to see what you have done

Have you fitted a smaller steering wheel, if you have is it is it a simple resistor in the connector to prevent the airbag light.

Yes as I say 1300 kg is just a target - gotta aim high (or low in this case) 

Cheers


----------



## brushwood69 (Dec 17, 2012)

I might have some interior ones will have a look. Currently car in for roll cage and front h&r arb only fitted rear first off but endded up with large lift off oversteer  just not that good for competing. i have fitted a small 310mm i think omp steering wheel which comes with resistor kit to fit just be careful of the steering angle sensor as getting this wrong will throw an esp error. I had to have my esp fully overrideable as it was dragging brakes into certain corners mainly uphill hairpins. Mine should be 1320kg now with rear balast gone. Aiming to strip behind dash and behind door trims next.

Regards


----------



## c4z (Aug 15, 2011)

I would imagine there's some pretty heavy sound deadening in the sides/door?
Don't forget to take the badges off :lol:


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi Brushwood,

When you say you have had your ESP fully override-able - how is that done?, Is the Haldex operation effected by it? Who does the modification?

Roll cage - that will put quite a few kg back in!  Just rear or full?

Yes some interior photos would be good

Cheers


----------



## UR_TT (Nov 8, 2008)

Hi,

CornerWeighted with me in the driverseat. This is with 40l of fuel and 106kgs driver
Puts it at an empty weight of around 1246kgs (no fuel, no driver but with rear rollcage) So its doable.










Loads of pics in my buildthread, link below, but I wouldnt go as hardcore as I did for a daily driver.

For the rear ride height I have an adjuster "screw" for the rear springs sits between spring and car att the bottom of the spring. Sorry dont know the correct english word for it.

Good luck with your build! Will be followed.

//U


----------



## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

UR_TT said:


> Hi,
> 
> CornerWeighted with me in the driverseat. This is with 40l of fuel and 106kgs driver
> Puts it at an empty weight of around 1246kgs (no fuel, no driver but with rear rollcage) So its doable.
> ...


I was going to direct you to this chaps thread, very interesting read and you can see how he has saved so much weight! I'll be getting a heat gun out soon enough to remove the soundproofing, can't believe how much that all weighed!!


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi //UR,

Yes I have seen your build (or deconstruction!) 

Looking good, I can see you have spent some time getting to where you are,

I won't go as far as polycarbonate windows or taking the AC out / heater out,

Was there much that you were able to take out from the front of the car, I see you moved the battery to the rear but was there much else from the engine bay or in the front?

Cheers


----------



## UR_TT (Nov 8, 2008)

TT_CS said:


> Hi //UR,
> 
> Yes I have seen your build (or deconstruction!)
> 
> ...


If you aren´t going to part with the AC there isn´t much savings in the front to be had. AC isn´t just the compressor, add the dryfilter and the front mounted cooler and all the hoses for it. Easiest the biggest weight I removed from the front end. And I still have the blower package inplace, you will have all the comforts except cooling on a hot day. I live i Sweden and I´m guessing you somewhere in the UK. How offent do we actually need it? ;-)
Only thing I can think of apart from the AC is a real CF bonnet, front fenders and maybe a smaller container for "windscreen cleaning fluid" sorry again I dont know the name for it in English. But all of the above are costly weight savings. And the of course lighter wheels, brake setup but again will need some invesment.

If I known then what I know now I wouldn´t have transferred the battery to the rear. Lightweight odessy battery in the orginal placement is (without doing the math on this) probably a bigger weight saver than moving it to the rear. But in the case of weight distrubution it is the right thing to do. That extra thick and long cable do have some weight to it.

Enough of my ramblings, hopefully You will reach your target and maybe you will find something that I have overlooked! That would be great, I do need to find some kgs in the front aswell.

Regards,
//U


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi //U,

Just had a look back through your build thread and TD, it brought back some memories, it is 10 years ago now I was at Anderstorp and Mantorp in 2003 and a little visit to Gothenburg if I remember correctly - time flies!

We don't need AC in the UK because it's hot!  We need it to demist the windows when its always raining - just looking outside now - it's raining... [smiley=bigcry.gif]

Did you weigh your Competition wheels, I think you said they were 10 kg, I am thinking of getting these to replace my 18" RS4's which I think are around 13.5 kg. There are lighter wheels - Neuspeed & Rota are a couple I have looked at or OZ have versions below 8 kg but not cheap. I think the TT competition wheel is a good compromise as they can be bought relatively cheap / are OEM and forged.

Sorry one more question, how much weight did you save removing the original front door cards?

Thanks again


----------



## UR_TT (Nov 8, 2008)

TT_CS said:


> Hi //U,
> 
> Just had a look back through your build thread and TD, it brought back some memories, it is 10 years ago now I was at Anderstorp and Mantorp in 2003 and a little visit to Gothenburg if I remember correctly - time flies!
> 
> ...


 8) So you have visited my hometown and the biggest tracks in my area, what racing leauge/team? 
And if you remeber Gothenburg is called "little London" not beacause of the way it looks but onhand of the similar weather. Heater and blower are intact in my car and never had any fogging problems. 

Got a link for you,
http://wheelweights.net/
Download the Wheel weight list, a great source for info, and frankly the most comprehensive one I have found anywhere.
I got the Comps on the same reason you mentioned, lightest on a budget and forged, decision was made with help from above list.

Doorcards arent any real weightsaving if you arent going to part with the comforts of electric windows, speakers and cables. Remowed the sounddeading int the doors maybe 1kg of bitumen for both doors. But stay tuned to my thread, will be an update on this fairly soon.

Have a splendid weekend Sir,

//U


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Thanks for the link - I haven't seen that before, very useful.

It was actually 2002 not 2003 it was ETCC in Anderstorp, I think it was the first year of 2.0L ETCC, ETCC didn't last long as it was still in transition between Super Touring as it used to be in 2000 BTCC and STW, STCC etc and the WTCC as it is now.

During the race weekend when we were in Anderstorp I have a foggy memory of driving what seemed to be deeper and deeper into the forest and then from nowhere there was a huge log cabin night club, it was bizzare this club full of people drinking, dancing just in the middle of nowhere - random...

Mantorp visit was for testing, one of the local drivers also tested the car, 'Flash' - you probably heard of him :lol:

And the fact that sometime was also spent in Goteborg - I am sure you can guess the make of car :mrgreen:

Have a good weekend also

Cheers


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

So just a brief history of how I got to the weight that I am currently at whilst I consider what next:

Those of you familiar with UR_TT's thread will know this is a well trodden path but it's not the first car I have stripped out:

So step one was to expose it's inner self:



The rats nest in the passenger foot well is the rear speaker and bose amp wiring loom which was removed at the same time as the bitumen sound deadening pads were removed, removed sounds more trivial than actually scraping them off and cleaning which took the best part of a day...



Initially I nearly reinstalled the rear speakers as it is clear that they provide more of the LF content but got used to it quite quickly, I might still replace the fronts with something a little more capable as it's use a daily means that the head unit is still required.

The area under the rear seat delete: my rear seat delete is a bit more ghetto than the norm on here, as it is literally just that at the moment.

The basic plan is to remove certain parts of trim / sound deadening etc, but do it in a progressive way so that if one particular 'delete' is a step too far as far as noise or functionality - then I reinstate the previous delete and progress elsewhere.



This is directly after a bit of heat gun and scraper action



And cleaned up a tad, the 'brown' areas are where the bitumen panels overlap the seam sealer and it is not so easy to remove from these areas 



The carpets etc went back down after this, but if I do end up removing the carpet in the future the OEM electorcoat is close enough colour wise to the silver to just leave it as it is IMO.

Also the other reason for doing this is to make myself more familiar with the stuff under the skin to see what can be removed without any obvious loss of functionality.

I have been quite suprised by how little sound deadening bitumen and other insulation there is, the main carpet is obviously moulded with a thick layer of foam insulation but the truth is there is little else inside to remove in terms of sound insulation.

If the bitumen removal had been a problem I would just have replaced it with Dynamat or something similar but I like old cars and this car is positively cutting edge compared to my old MG and insane Classic Mini project, so I was quite confident it would be acceptable.

I have had this car more than 2 years and driven it 35000 miles in that time as a daily, nearly doubling the mileage I bought it with, the truth is they are a lot of car for the money now but you just have to accept that maintenance will not always be cheap. The cost to own this car in those 2 years is still less than the depreciation on the new Mini Cooper D we bought over the same 2 year period - i.e. if it was worth nothing now (some might argue what I am doing will achieve just that ;p ) - If it all goes wrong - it pretty well owes me nothing in my mind, but no plans to part with my project just yet

Cheers


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi NickG,

Not sure what you mean by how much was saved by removing the 'sound proofing' and getting your heat gun out, by heat gun I assume you mean the bitumen panels, to be honest the weight saved by these is much less than I expected, I think UR_TT mentioned 9 - 10 kg and so far I am some way below that figure - possibly around half that figure. It is possible that this varied over the life of the TT as to where they were and how thick they were but I removed much more weight from my Classic Mini from similar weight saving.

I have been carrying out some work which required removing the main moulded carpet section from the floorpan, I ran out of daylight hours and needed to get (what is my daily driver) up and running ready for tomorrow so had to leave the carpet out before I put the car back together ready for tomorrow, having done a quick lap of my surrounding area I can confirm with little room for error that the main moulded carpet is the main source of noise insulation on the 8N TT, particularly the isolation of engine noise. I will run like this all week and see how big the loss of sound insulation is - I haven't weighed the main carpet section to see how much weight it has saved but I will see if I can live with it visually and as far as noise levels versus the amount of weight actually saved are concerned it feels fast but I suspect that most of this is noise level related.

Cheers


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

OK as mentioned I had to strip a lot of the interior out in order to do a few jobs

Just taken it off the corner weight scales and to all intents it's 1350 Kg in this condition + a few more bits removed.

So just to get an idea of what weight can be achieved without losing things like AC, EW, CL, Stereo etc I decided to take the rest of the 'non functional' items, i.e. trim, carpet, but without effecting the standard switch gear, so here is what's still in:

Door cards and all associated switch gear (Didn't want to run without EW for this 'exercise')
Main dashboard and switchgear / heater controls etc
Std heated seats
Back on to my RS4 reps with winter tyres - so added some weight here
All AC / Heater / blowers
Headlining and 'A' pillar trims
All boot / door seals
All std wiring
Radio / front speakers / Bose amp
Tailgate trim (looked like I would break it trying to get it off so left alone)
Handbrake cover / trim
Foot rest
Door step trims
Standard battery up front
Standard air bag steering wheel

Summary of whats gone:

Carpet (11 kg!) - This is why it forms the main part of the NVH / Sound insulation
Boot liner / fibreboard
Spare wheel & tools
Rear seats
All 'side' trim (except front door cards)
Glovebox 
Centre console (switches temporarily cable tied)
All bitumen NVH (except for under rear seat - still not done this bit)
Front strut brace - (Interesting results - will try on and off again to confirm)

So if the following is done:

Fat fives (9.8 kg instead of 13.5 kg for the RS4's) = 1350 - 14.5 = 1335 Kg
OZ Ultraleggera (17 x 8 ) 7.7 Kg / wheel (assuming no tyre weight saving) = 1350 - 23 = 1327 Kg

Conservatively could get to 10 Kg per seat with runners, I weighed my seats at 23 Kg but I have seen 27 Kg quoted, so say another 26 Kg saved

1327 - 26 = 1301 Kg

Aftermarket exhaust / rear system

I have seen 21 kg quoted for the rear silencer which seems insanely heavy and I know I can conservatively get to 10 - 11 Kg for a bespoke rear box/s so:

1301 - 10 = 1291 Kg

Lighter weight battery 1291 - 2 = 1289 Kg

None air bag steering wheel 1289 - 2 = 1287 Kg

This is with AC, stereo, all electrics, std calipers and no attempt to try and lighten any parts

25 Kg added will put what looks like a standard interior back in and take me to 1312 Kg, so I need another 12 Kg ish of fettling elsewhere to hit 1300 Kg to get what looks like a std car with bucket seats / AC / Stereo.

At 1467 Kg I am at 153 Bhp/Tonne - Std car 225 Hp at standard weight
At 1350 Kg I am at 167 Bhp/Tonne - equivalent of 244 Hp remap at standard weight
At 1300 Kg I am at 173 Bhp/Tonne - equivalent of 254 Hp remap at standard weight
At 1300 Kg I am at 192 Bhp/Tonne - with a 250 Hp remap

Identical to a	911 / 964 RS America at 191 Bhp / Tonne but still shy of my 911 / 964 RS target of 210 Bhp / tonne

As they say, need to get out more

Cheers


----------



## brushwood69 (Dec 17, 2012)

Hi,

Only just saw your comment about esp! The guys that sort our my car rk engineering managed to a stealth switch in the coin box by light switch which disables the esp fully. Not sure how but made a hell of a difference over the soft off via the esp button.

Yep rear half cage and the rk guys are making this in house to comply with msa regs. They have just removed the rear ballast 19kg and will relocate battery to boot to compensate.

Are you looking for speed and competing or just street use?

Bw


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi Bw,

I am / have been using this as my daily for the last two years, although I don't have to I plan to carry on doing this

Initially I want to try sprints as Curborough is close by so I plan to go along to suitable events, I am definitely not into trailering a car around so it will always be driven to any events.

I haven't looked into the various categories at Club level, so no idea what is allowed for say production car categories or what ends up placing you in an inappropriate category like Sports Libre, all I plan to do will be reversible so initially just some track time irrespective of category, then maybe make sure the car ends up in a class that suits it in terms of modifications / competitivity.

Cheers


----------



## UR_TT (Nov 8, 2008)

Awesome progress CS! You are so much faster than what I managed, good job.

On the Bitumen, as u say there might be diffrences between build years, what year is yours? Mines a 2000.02.

Have you gotten to all the bitumen? On top of the rear wheelwells and below the rearligths, footwells up under the dash underneath that white clothy looking thing and finally under the dash just just where the windscreen and the interior meets. Or at least that what I found on mine, or have you already gotten to it? See below pic on places I had hard to find.










Dont keep us waiting, we need pics!  8)

Keep up the good work,

//U


----------



## brushwood69 (Dec 17, 2012)

Looking at the regs for your region you will end up in the over 2000cc which is calculated by the cc x 1.4 for a turbo. This is a pain because you will end up with gt3s audi rs4 and all sort of Subaru and evo. In my region sw we have class a3 which is upto 2500cc which keeps me out of porsche and evo territory with my main competition being a 350bhp a3 Quattro a jcw mini and a sunbeam lotus and all of us are within tenths.

In road going class all you can do is engine mods, must have mot, tax etc you can replace seats and remove carpet that's about it. I have got away with removing the rear seats by saying the tt is a QS!!!

Regards bw


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi UR_TT,

Yes I found all the areas you show (thank you) except for those on the front bulkhead as I haven't removed anything from behind the dash / front bulkhead area yet....

Did you remove the dash rail / frame tube thing at any point? There seems to be a fixing behind the steering column that I can't see and I can't find anyone else mad enough likely to have took it out at some point 

A picture tells a thousand words and all that...



OK so the ICE install got a bit out of hand... ICE is the wrong word as I am pretty well the opposite as I just tend to listen to the radio or Ipod but certainly no boom box.

In my quest to save weight but not to the extent I have no radio at all, the plan is;

1.) Remove The BOSE Amp and bracket
2.) Remove CD changer (already done)
3.) Remove Centre speaker (Won't work with the aftermarket HU anyway?)
4.) Change the head unit to a mechless radio / media player
5.) Remove all wiring associated with Amp and CD changer - hence the carnage
6.) Decide what to do with rear speakers - currently removed - not sure yet

1.) Weighs 1.530 Kg
2.) Weighs 1.930 Kg
3.) weighs 0.134 Kg
4.) weighs 1.444 Kg
5.) weighs 1.506 Kg
6.) weighs 1.664 Kg

Total = 8.2 Kg!!!

What I am in the process of putting back In:

1.) Pioneer Mechless / Media HU - 0.834 Kg - Includes cage, aerial adaptor, Facia infills and wiring adaptor loom
2.) Add some wiring for rear speakers (estimate 0.2 Kg - using lightweight aerospace / mil spec wire) in case I decide I want them (Will be on a seperate plug so I can remove sub loom if unused.)

Weight saving = 7.2 Kg

The rats nest that has essentially taken 2 days to remove, all stripped right back to the fuse box and earth points - took a while;



I am glad I did as it was just 1.5 kg of ballast otherwise with no cost other than my time. (And a few broken trim clips which need to be glued back on...)

Also started to look at what else can be removed or lightened whilst everything is stripped out.

OK it's a start but not much,

Bracket which goes from what I call dash tube / frame to bulkhead (seems redundant as the tube is so stiff anyway) But the lightening begins

Before:



After:



Just a few grams here and there but it's all adding up

My current estimate, based on:

Bucket seats
No rear seats
what looks like a full interior trim
Fat five alloys
Lighter weight battery
Full AC and heater
No space saver tyre

Comes in around 1311 Kg so a bit more to find to get to 1300 Kg

Cheers


----------



## UR_TT (Nov 8, 2008)

TT_CS said:


> Hi UR_TT,
> Yes I found all the areas you show (thank you) except for those on the front bulkhead as I haven't removed anything from behind the dash / front bulkhead area yet....
> 
> Did you remove the dash rail / frame tube thing at any point? There seems to be a fixing behind the steering column that I can't see and I can't find anyone else mad enough likely to have took it out at some point
> ...


I found my last bits just under that black cover on top of the bulkhead. Yes I remowed that black one aswell.

Sorry cant help you on the tube, didnt remowe it, but I did find some info sketches, hope it helps!


















Keep it up, you are spreading good inspiration! I feel a small itch comming on, I may have to tear my car down again in the hunt form grams and kilos! [smiley=crowngrin.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

//U


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Thanks UR,

That helps, I think I just needed to remove the wiper scuttle panel cover, it probably saved me from removing a lot more than I should have during an ICE install 

But still chipping away at saving weight:

This is the seat I intend on fitting to save weight and be more suitable for track / sprint use.



The main objective is weight saving, it has a carbon fibre 'frame'



It needs a little bit of attention, but that is fine as I will get it recovered in leather / alcantara if it proves comfortable over the next few weeks / months. I don't like the bold white lettering for a road car as it's a bit 'obvious' and retrimming will lose that.

The QS uses Pole Position Recaros with the ABE system, which basically seems to be use of bucket seats with inertia reel seat belts

Here is a side view of my seat:



Does anyone know if it significantly different to that of a PP QS seat?

Here is what I think is a genuine QS (Sorry if it's anyones off here) 


The inner seat anchor seems to just bolt to the seat runner and it doesn't go through the slot that would be used for a harness?

One other useful detail of the seat I have is that the lateral head support is removable - so it isn't so bad when used on the road



This just bolts to the rear of the seat when you want sprint or a track day

Cheers


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Just found a photo of what I mean:

These are 'ABE PP's fitted to an NSX:



You can see that the lower side slots are much bigger and the inner seat belt anchor goes through the the slot.

Does ABE on a TT just mean that the inner female socket bolts to the seat frame?

Cheers


----------



## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

A few pics of my genuine qS pols fitted to yellow I swapped the side mounts for some alloy Recaro ones but the belt and buckle mount the same


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Thanks Yellow_TT for replying,

Do you have any images of how the inner 'buckle' mounts to the seat side frame - is it a threaded boss on the side mount or a plain hole with a nut-bolt / bushes through it.

Cheers


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

It's not difficult to see how these mechless head units are so light:



However in the photo the black lead you can see is a USB output to the rear of the head unit that I have added because I can't bear having wires everywhere coming out of the dash area such as when you have a sat nav connected, so...

I have 'belled out' the wiring of the front mounted USB connection of the HU and soldered what is essentially a cut down USB extension lead coming out via the rear, the plan is to feed this under the centre console and will come out near the handbrake SO I can attach an Ipod here.

I have added a grommet to pass through the HU chassis and a few bits of Raychem heat shrink to act as strain relief as the wires are soldered directly to the PCB so need a little protection.



Whilst modifying the HU I decided to save a few more grams and added some swaged lightening holes which means I am down to 750 grams total now for the HU and supporting items.



No doubt a little OTT / OCD but it becomes a little obsessive trying to save weight.

And as it finished (well before I covered the swaged holes with ally tape) :



The three swaged holes did make a useful handle like a bowling ball

The weight loss goes on, the car is still in pieces while I look at what else can be removed / modified to save a little more weight, a photo from the other day while I pondered...



Cheers


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Have been chipping away at the weight saving and have now got to 1360 Kg with what looks like a full standard interior except for the rear seat delete.

I have been stripping pretty well every part of the car's interior out and weighing each part and deciding where to delete stuff and where to try and lighten standard parts.

The doors were an area that I hadn't looked at previously as I am having to work outside at the moment and with how changeable the weather is it easy to get caught in a rain shower with all of the window mech removed from the door.

The door regulator / EW mechanism is also a structural part of the door:

I forgot to take a picture of the complete door after removing the door card, but here is an Internet image



This is my door with everything removed so I can see better where to try and save a few grammes, you can see the remnants of the glue which held the 'bitumen' sound deadening:



Little more than a door skin with a little bit of frame.

Once the regulator was out I could see where things could be lightened, the standard centre of the regulator, with motor removed:



And with the start of some weight saving / swaged holes:



As before you are limited which holes can be swaged depending on the surrounding shape.

Due to time and weather constraints I made a bit of progress but really needed to get the glass back in before a deluge ensued, I will no doubt re-visit the doors when the weather is less threatening.

A few other brackets:

'body controller' bracket:



One of dash brackets:



The foot rest frame:



I know on there own they look like very little gain but about 3-4 weeks ago I was 1350 Kg with most of the interior removed i.e. all rear trim panels, carpet, sill trim, boot trim and floor covering board, 'parcel shelf' etc.

I have now reinstated all of these trim items, have std heated seats, steering wheel, RS4 reps and I am at 1360 Kg.

Another intended replacement item to save weight is the steering wheel (not included in this current quoted weight);



It's 335mm O.D. so marginally smaller than std but it weighs just 504 grammes, once I have decided how to mount it, whether I use a QR or not I will change over and save in the region of 3 kg depending on the weight of the adapter.

Cheers


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

So I needed to get it on the cornerweight scales again just to confirm where I am - 1326 Kg (2925 lbs) as weighed

I keep a spreadsheet of the changes made since the last time it was weighed but dropping it on the scales removes any doubt



As you can see I am spending more time saving weight than cleaning it at the moment

The ride height is off road spec but not quite as bad as shown in the photo, the car has just been lowered onto the cornerweight scales so hasn't settled, the scales aren't properly levelled as I am just interested in the overall weight and not accurate actual corner weights. The scales have just been calibrated.

So the spec as it stands is:

Heated leather recaro airbag seats
AC still fitted
Replica 18" wheels with winter tyres
All interior still fitted except for rear seats - most of interior has been lightened 
Aliens deleted
Nearly empty of fuel
Washer bottle full
Standard battery
Tool kit in polystyrene tray in spare wheel well
Lightweight mechless HU with OEM 6 speakers system
No parcel shelf
Carbon fibre steering wheel
Space saver removed
Standard exhaust system

I think I am at the point where most of the easy items to delete or lighten are done

Battery is next:



This will save around 4 kg on top of what's been found so far

Sub 1300 kg (2867 lbs) looks easy whilst still retain pretty standard appearance

The next steps are getting a little more expensive:

OZ Alleggretta
Recaro PP
Lightweight exhaust silencer / system
T45 Tubular subframes - bespoke - Need to buy some spare subframes to see what can be done
Adjustable platform springs to compensate for the weight loss effect on ride height
Tempted to remove and weigh the AC components just to see what it comes to

Cheers


----------



## CR51GYR-TT240 (Mar 30, 2013)

Getting there mate, could try removing all unnecessary tabs and locating fixings that are spot welded in.

Headlining, all plastics in the bay, air vent rings pull out, knee supports bars are very heavy, center tunnel. Loads can keep going lol.


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi CR51GYR-TT240,

The thread listing said you had replied to the post, but somehow your post is not visible?

Cheers


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi CR51GYR-TT240,

For some bizzare reason your post didn't show in my thread, but looking at posts you have made in your profile it is visble there?

You wrote:

_Getting there mate, could try removing all unnecessary tabs and locating fixings that are spot welded in.

Headlining, all plastics in the bay, air vent rings pull out, knee supports bars are very heavy, center tunnel. Loads can keep going lol.
_

Yes I have removed about 5 kg of unused tabs and fixings so far :- from the floor / interior mainly associated wit the rear seat delete, Bose amp mounts other superfluous brackets in the boot area, but still looking.

Yes all plastic / unecessary covers in the engine bay are already gone and included in this weight (Battery surround plastic is still fitted though)

Headliner is staying as I want it to look like it has a complete interior except for the rear seat delete, also the wiring / switchgear associated with the headliner would be a pain to mount without them rattling like mad / looking a mess.

The knee supports (Ally triangles) have already been lightened (They are 1.9 kg in total as standard) - I want them to be fitted though, again to make it look like a standard interior.

If I were to gut the interior that I have and the stereo / speakers / tool holder etc, but keep things like door cards, headliner AC, I could take out another 28 kg and get to under 1300 kg but I want to do it with a complete looking interior

Cheers


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

So this is what your car will look like if you take 140 kg out and don't sort the springs out...



Springs are ordered as are Eibach adjustable height platforms for the rear

Discussions regarding a custom lightweight turbo back exhaust system are well progressed now, so hopefully will be fitted in the next few weeks and should save 10 - 12 kg depending on how it works out.

Then it is seats, wheels and fit the battery that I already have to get well below my 1300 kg target and retain the interior

Cheers


----------



## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

TT_CS said:


> So this is what your car will look like if you take 140 kg out and don't sort the springs out...
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers


Jesus christ!! i thought these were Quattro not 4x4!! Thats almost Chelsea Tractor high!!!

Great work though mate, i've bookmarked this for when i begin weight saving (Well i say begin... a/c system and SAI pump have already gone in preparation!)


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Cheers mate,

Do you by any chance have means to weigh the AC stuff you have taken out? Say the pump, plumbing, rad (evaporator)?

Cheers


----------



## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

TT_CS said:


> Cheers mate,
> 
> Do you by any chance have means to weigh the AC stuff you have taken out? Say the pump, plumbing, rad (evaporator)?
> 
> Cheers


Crap, i would have done if i'd have known last week, but we done a dump run and they were some of the victims.

Obviously pump is the biggest weight saving, that has to be 5-7kgs though i would have said. The pipework and bit probably another 2-3 kgs and maybe another 4-5kg for the radiator!

Sorry i cant be more precise than that bud, but i'm guessing a minimum saving of 10kg for mine!


----------



## mstew (Mar 17, 2012)

Fit an LSD and get rid of the quattro  100kg saving right there! :lol:

Honestly though, depending on budget, try looking into carbon fibre half shafts and prop shafts. Just needs some good machining and appropriate strength epoxy (NOT KIDDING!)

I am really liking this thread though, a lot of commitment here, keep up the good work 8)

Mark


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi Mark,

I have worked with race cars that have carbon prop shafts (I think it was over £4000 back in 2003!)

Never seen driveshafts / halfshafts in carbon though do you have a specific example / vehicle you can point me to? As far as I know F1 is still steel (300M maraging steel) - from memory they were £3000 a pair around the same time for a tin top.

So I think I will leave them until I have run out of options 

Cheers


----------



## mstew (Mar 17, 2012)

Just from doing formula student to be honest 8) Lightweight application, CF tubes can be specified easily and aren't too expensive now. We used these guys http://www.tri-cast.co.uk/ and used 45,45 weave.

Just have to calculate torque values (for thicknesses/ layers) to eliminate torque steer per length and achieve a tolerable amount of twist.

It's really quite simple and I'm sure you could do some trials on some 2nd hand front shafts. I remember seeing someone made sets for some old chevvys or something when I was looking into them. Had a decent weight saving too IIRC!

Mark


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

I'd be very nervous about developing DIY driveshafts or propshafts as having seen the aftermath of a propshaft failure

The ones I have used are from CTG:

http://www.ctgltd.com/product/aftermarket-propshafts

When they developed the one I used about 10 years ago it took a few iterations before they stopped failing on the test rig.

I think the one they make for the Caterham is about £1000 so pretty good value, but the TT is quite a bit longer and 2 piece, not seen anyone provide driveshafts though...

I forgot to post is the mods to the dash support triangles, basically I milled pockets in the rear face of the supports so that the 'styling' surface is as standard:



The knee pads fit the same as before



Once fitted to the car with the knee pads attached there is only a very small area visible where the back of the supports have been pocketed out.

When you start to strip out the car and weigh the various bits these supports stood out as subjectively feeling very heavy for the function they provide but I wanted to keep them as part of the interior as they are part of what makes the TT interior IMO

Not getting much else done as the weather is pretty grim with rain most days and having to currently work outside

Cheers


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

So My Eibach rear springs and adjustable platforms are in the UK now so I should get them in the next few days, so I have made a start on some adjustable length rear lateral links to adjust the camber / track width.

They are made from T45 tube and S514 plate (S514 is essentially T45 in sheet / plate form)



The ends of the T45 tubes are 'fish mouthed' and drilled to allow 'rose' welding - both done to increase the effective weld area

I want to keep them as light and as stiff as possible, it's not clear to see yet but the 'outer' end of the lateral link is bolted / ring dowelled to the lateral link meaning that neither the shank of the through bolt nor the root of the thread of the through bolt is the minimum section thickness in the assembled link.



The through bolt is 12.9 / EN24 Spec



Next to the lateral links you can see the S514 outer end part way through being folded up and fabricated, this will have an EN14 bush welded in to it which is a properly toleranced fit, they will not be on car adjustable, the outer end is removable and the overall length is altered using spacers



This shows the outer removable part of the link before it was folded into its near final shape as shown above

I will hopefully trial fit them this week along with the Eibach springs before I send them off to get Kephos lightweight coated, this is a thin durable coating which has the main benefit of allowing proper crack checking during the service life of the part, powder / epoxy type coatings do not allow this.

Cheers


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

So the adjustable rear lateral links are done, there not coated yet but I have a bit more to do first - establish the length required within a likely range of ride heights and add the headlight leveling bracket (if nece)

The outer end (the 'U' section) of the standard OEM link feels especially flimsy but I am not so sure this is a big problem as the main load direction is axial for the link, but the replacements in S514 feel much more rigid.



You can see the 'fish mouthing' and the 'rose' welds more clearly here



As this still has to function as a road car I am still using the OEM metallastic bushes, never had good experience with poly bushes either





This is end fixing, it is not 'on car' adjustable, slower to set up but stiff and lighter



I will use 0.6 - 1.2mm shims / washers initially and then depending on the final thickness of the required spacer get a single one turned up.



The Eibach springs are being rate tested today, so I should be able to try these out in the next few weeks





Cheers


----------



## outdoor stevie (Nov 24, 2013)

Air con compressor a very nice 6.2kgn









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Thanks for the weight info as I had tried to find the weight for the pump, AC will still be the last thing I take out, but more for demisting than the cool air provision.

You don't happen to have the weights for the other parts of the AC system by any chance 

Thanks again


----------



## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

Love those rear tiebars - proper well thought out idea with quality engineering to match. Fair play.


----------



## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

outdoor stevie said:


> Air con compressor a very nice 6.2kgn
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats awesome! I guessed at 5-7kg by hand!


----------



## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

L33JSA said:


> Love those rear tiebars - proper well thought out idea with quality engineering to match. Fair play.


+1


----------



## outdoor stevie (Nov 24, 2013)

No I don't have the weights of the rest of the ac system only the comp as I haven't thrown it out yet, even without the ac you will still get hot and cold air to demist the car if that's what you are wondering about, love your attention to detail and a great thread.

Stevie


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Thanks for the comments guys,

I have a few more plans which I think will just about get me to 1300 kg without changing the seats or the heavy rep wheels.

Outdoor stevie,

Every car I have ever owned and the TT is no exception has demisted quite a lot more rapidly with AC than without, I have tried a few times in very heavy rain to run with the ECON button ON and the side windows especially steadily mist up, hit the AC and cleared in seconds. Sadly rain being such a regular occurrence in the UK I don't plan to be without AC any time soon.

Now maybe if I were just knocking on the door of 1200 Kg and needed to find 10 Kg I'd wave it goodbye but I will assume that is a bridge too far just yet 

Cheers


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Been a little busy with my other projects - Turbo install on my little Mini see below  but back on the TT for the time being



So finally I have broken the 1300kg barrier! 1299kg to be precise.

I was at 1380 Kg when I started this thread in Nov 2013

I have been chipping away at a few thing but it is mainly thanks to Mr Alleggerita HLT - OZ



They are individually tagged at 7.255 Kg





They are made using OZ's HLT process "High Light Technology" which seems to be a low pressure casting / flow forming process which allows the stiffness of the wheels made to approach that of a forged wheel but still remain relatively lightweight.



I also did quite a lot of research into tyres and specifically tyres which still perform well but again at a sensible weight which has resulted in a total fitted unit weight of 16.48 Kg



Compared to the units I took off at 23.56 Kg !



Which is a total saving of just over 28 Kg or 63 lbs

Even just fitting them to the car the weight difference feels ridiculous, the RS4's required the use of both hands and a knee to support them whilst trying to fit the wheel bolts but the new units are easily offered up with one hand to line it up with the hub while the other hand fits the bolts.

Still running them in at the moment but the car does feel more free to accelerate but it could just as easily be wishful thinking.

With the lightweight battery and replacing the seats I should get to about 1250 Kg with a full interior, AC, Stereo with 6 speakers, tool kit etc but then it starts to get a bit tricky to make any significant steps

Cheers


----------



## fixitagaintomoz (Apr 26, 2013)

That is bloody good going!

I wonder how long those rear tie bars will take to set up?! Worth it once its done though.

very impressive weight loss whilst retaining the charm of the TT interior. I imagine it will go like muck off a shovel! Keep up the good work!

I probably missed it, but what's the aim BHP wise, as your heading for a very good bhp/tonne figure


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Cheers,

Yes it's currently at about 173 bhp / tonne (Assuming 225 Hp which it may or may not be)

When I started it was 1467 Kg and 153 bhp / tonne

I don't really have a Hp target yet but 210 bhp / tonne is my emotional target - the same as a 964 RS, for no particular logical reason - This would mean I would need 265 Hp and get to 1256 Kg which is pretty straight forward to attain.

If I leave the engine standard and still get to 1256 Kg target it will be 179 bhp / tonne

Cheers


----------



## fixitagaintomoz (Apr 26, 2013)

Hmmm...with mine at around 290bhp and around 1450kg im running circa 200bhp per tonne...But if i got down to 1300kg id be 223bhp per tonne.... might need to do some stripping out myself!


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Don't forget weight saving helps acceleration, braking and cornering

Plus I am getting about 41 MPG on a daily motorway commute (measured not DIS figure)

470 miles is my current best from a full tank, 100 mile per day journey

So it's exhaust / DP, seats (already got them) and battery next just not sure what order

1250 Kg here we come for my daily drive

Cheers


----------



## fixitagaintomoz (Apr 26, 2013)

TT_CS said:


> Don't forget weight saving helps acceleration, braking and cornering
> 
> Plus I am getting about 41 MPG on a daily motorway commute (measured not DIS figure)
> 
> ...


wowsa! I would love those MPG figures!!!

In real terms though how noisy is it now for the daily commute?


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

I guess noise levels / refinement is such an individual thing

I specifically made the changes incrementally in an attempt to not end up with something I hated...

My first step was the rear seat delete which definitely increased noise levels as far as road noise / 'ambient' noise levels go but I haven't replaced it with anything and only plan to fit a piece of carpet over the rear seat area so I don't expect that to change much from what it is now.

Then I removed all the bitumen from the floor which didn't make a massive difference but any stones thrown up etc now sound more 'tinny' than before.

Removing the bitumen from the doors is something I wouldn't recommend as it only saves about 200 - 300g per door but you will lose the solid thud it used to make when closing and it will sound like a panel van when you shut the door - I removed and then replaced this bitumen.

I ran for a while without any interior, no carpet / interior side panels (still had door and roof panels), the carpet is very heavy and does a good job of reducing the engine / turbo noises - so you immediately think something is wrong with the engine as you now hear a lot of noises you didn't before, I only did this as I was lightening the interior panels themselves and removing any brackets of wiring I didn't need.

If you want to go hard core full interior strip the good thing about that is the fact that if isn't there it can't rattle or squeak, if you lighten things / remove padding trim you will have to spend some time locating and fixing any newly introduced rattles etc - as they will be there - another good reason for doing stuff incrementally.

But it's not just the fact that you have removed sound deadening / insulation material the removal of a significant amount of mass will cause certain brackets / panels to 'ring' / vibrate that didn't before because the resonant frequencies of certain bits change.

In summary I am quite happy with what I now have as a daily driver but you will have to track down and remedy rattles / buzzes as it is this that bothers me far more than any change in overall noise levels, by making the changes incrementally I think I have got used to the steady change in noise and don't notice it but if something 'buzzes' I have to find and fix it

HTH


----------



## fixitagaintomoz (Apr 26, 2013)

TT_CS said:


> I guess noise levels / refinement is such an individual thing
> 
> I specifically made the changes incrementally in an attempt to not end up with something I hated...
> 
> ...


Thanks for that comprehensive write up!

i noticed that without my rear seats there was a lot more ambient noise, which did bug me slightly, but i got over it. must admit thouh putting them back in did sound so much nicer!

in regards to the door cards bitumen thats a good call on keeping it, there's something quite satisfactory about the soft thud of a TT door closing.

would you say the floor bitumen made a good weight saving? as i plan on changing my carpet from grey to black, so while it is out i could remove it if the noise increase isnt too noticable.

i suppose the real easy weight saving on the interior is seat delete then light weight front seats. shame ive just bought my porsche seats, they arent much lighter than standard, DOH! but i love the look so they are going in, for now.

Anyway, keep up the good work, its coming along nicely!


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi the door bitumen is on the inside of the door skin not the door cards, 2 strips IIRC

The floor bitumen was less than 6 kg in total, some might say not worth it but it was just my time so no down side in my opinion - out of interest not sure if the QS has the same bitumen or less than a std TT?

I have purchased new Recaro ABE PP's but they won't go in until I am done messing with weight saving in the car as I don't want them scratched / torn. They are less than 10 kg with mountings so about 13 kg saved per seat, 26 kg total. My carbon fibre seat was more like 6 kg but just not as comfortable as the PP's as a daily driver.

I removed all bracketry associated with the rear seats as well and it came to just over 23 kg saved and I will put about 300 grams of carpet back in to tidy it up.

I honestly think that a full 'balls to the wall' no interior / AC / Wheel arch liners / and a few other secret bits could get very close to 1200 Kg from my calculations, the important bit is remembering that every 100 gram counts, now if you went to the trouble of dipping the shell 1200 kg should be relatively straight forward

Cheers


----------



## fixitagaintomoz (Apr 26, 2013)

Yeah i knew about the doors- i just wrote it wrong before.

I didnt realise the rear seats were so heavy, think theyll be coming back out! So rear ballast at 16kg, rear seats at 23kg, spare wheel and tools, cd changer,ive got to be looking at being under 1400 soon 

Thanks again for the info, you seem to have documented your work very well!


----------



## Ciano91 (Dec 17, 2013)

Class build 8)


----------



## brushwood69 (Dec 17, 2012)

I got rid of my back box! 21kg










Only raised the DB from 88 to 91! at .5m and 4000rpm

Loudish but not anything to get plod interested and lower than any trackday limit. This will get tided up with a new stainless item over the winter just need a single valance which is odd for a 225 to want one! or build a racing diffuser.


----------



## Brown (Sep 28, 2014)

how does the car feel to drive with all that weight gone, is it more chuckable ? more fun to drive ?


----------



## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

I would like to see the backbox on scales as im pretty sure it cant be as heavy as 20kg..maybe 12 or 13..
Steve


----------



## Si77 (Oct 9, 2014)

Excellent thread, just planning my next project and getting loads of inspiration!


----------



## crono35 (Dec 27, 2013)

I weighed the box when it was removed by the muffler shop and I remember it being around 27 lbs (with the tips removed).

Unfortunately with the TT it's a lot easier to remove weight from the back than the front, further upsetting the weight balance. All the easy stuff (muffler delete, spare wheel, corner ballast) is back there. Can't remove much from the front without affecting usability.


----------



## crono35 (Dec 27, 2013)

TT_CS said:


> Hi Mark,
> 
> I have worked with race cars that have carbon prop shafts (I think it was over £4000 back in 2003!)
> 
> ...


Just an FYI... this isn't for a TT, but when I had a 3000gt, CFDS could be had for relatively cheap.

http://www.3sx.com/store/comersus_viewI ... roduct=644

$1310 for a full 1-piece carbon driveshaft.

Also along that line, they made a 300m output shaft for that car as well. I always am regretful when I think about how easy and cheap it is to get a vr4 into the 600-700 WHP range.


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

So it's 2015...

I am down to 1260kg

To summarise, The latest changes in order are;

The OZ wheels
x2 Recaro ABE Pole Position seats
And chipped away at a number of parts which have been lightened

I still have what essentially looks like a full interior, carpet, door cards, all trim side panels, boot trim, folding boot floor liner board, EW, AC etc... But I still haven't covered over the rear seat delete area so that is still bare paint.

I want to be sub 1250kg with what looks like a std interior with PP's and rear seat delete, which should be straight forward as I still have a totally standard exhaust manifold and system.

I have owned it 4 years now and added 50,000 miles, no plans on swapping to anything else, just continuing the diet 

Cheers


----------



## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

I'm down to 1240kg with another couple to come out this weekend when I dump off the sliding runners and side mounts for these 3 piece Sparco jobbies.










My target was 1200kg, but that last bit is going to be tough and made up of lots of little parts as I'm keeping the aircon.

Good luck with the weight saving after all it's free HP. Great that it still looks largely stock. Mine doesn't 

VT


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Yeah the desire to keep all of the interior and trim + AC is adding up to close on 40kg to mine so 1200kg should be doable with a car that's all stripped out.

As you can see I am doing 12 - 13,000 miles a year in it so want to keep it a little bit user friendly, that's the reason I have held off on the exhaust weight saving as I don't want it to boom on the Motorway, most of the other changes I can reverse if there too noisy but shelling out £100's on a new DP / system and not liking it will be an expensive exercise.

Cheers


----------



## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

Your're right, for what you are doing you need to retain some comfort. Mine's bordering on requiring ear plugs for reasonable length journeys and that's with a quiet exhaust (these things are quiet even when most if the silencing gas been removed).

The one thing that will be staying is the a/c. Running on track in the winter with misting up windows or summer at 35 deg is worth carrying the extra weight, so that last 40kg is going to take some work. Plastic windows sometime this year methinks.

I suspect there's a chunk of weight to come out of the loom, so taking the dash out will likely be my next move.

Fun innit! BTW that's the only time you'll hear me use that word :lol:

VT


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

R.I.P.

Succumbed to injuries on the M6 delivered by a Slovakian registered Artic - sadly no more, no doubt being broken up as we speak...

Sadly my lightweight TT plans ended along with it

I am seemingly out of here and have lightweight VAG plans elsewhere

All the best

Cheers


----------



## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

Nightmare!!! Really sorry to hear that dude, was enjoying your updates and planning to use a lot of them on my project! Thanks for your input and all the best! 8)


----------



## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

Wow, that sucks. I came here to check on your progress since you stopped posting on your other thread. Sad to hear that your plans for a lightweight TT are over. [smiley=bigcry.gif]

Good luck with whatever you're playing with now!


----------



## Trig (Jun 7, 2013)

Meh, only just found this thread as I dont come on here much, looking for threads on lightening as I find the TT rather front heavy then find a rather terminal end to the car


----------



## TT_CS (Nov 2, 2013)

Long time since I've been on here......

However back in the TT fold, albeit not as I originally planned:



Quattro, S-line, S Tronic, Nano grey, Tech pack, 1335 kg....

First day with it and loving it so far

Don't expect I'll start stripping stuff out of this any time soon...

Cheers


----------



## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

Beautiful car, enjoy!


----------

