# Intake Valve Cleaning with Dry Ice - (VW 2.0 TSI)



## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

I've seen quite a few videos on chemical cleaning and walnut blasting, but this is the first one I found using dry ice. Personally, this would be my preferred method as there's no residue. Using chemicals and brushes is just a huge mess. Walnut shells require a vacuum cleaner to evacuate the used shell media.

These before and after shots pretty much tell the story. The challenge will be finding someone in your area that offers dry-ice blasting. *Video here.*









*Dry Ice Blasting*

Dry-ice blasting is a form of carbon dioxide cleaning, where dry ice, the solid form of carbon dioxide, is accelerated in a pressurized air stream and directed at a surface in order to clean it. The method is similar to other forms of media blasting such as sand blasting, plastic bead blasting, or soda blasting in that it cleans surfaces using a media accelerated in a pressurized air stream, but dry-ice blasting uses dry ice as the blasting medium. Dry-ice blasting is nonabrasive, non-conductive, nonflammable, and non-toxic.

Compared to other media blasting methods, dry-ice blasting does not create secondary waste or chemical residues as dry ice sublimates, or converts back to a gaseous state, when it hits the surface that is being cleaned. Dry-ice blasting does not require clean-up of a blasting medium. The waste products, which includes just the dislodged media, can be swept up, vacuumed or washed away depending on the containment.


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## delmar.atlas (Dec 9, 2021)

I've seen this process alot on the older Porches and Ferrari. Alot of show cars use this method from the undercarriage to the engine bay. However I have never seen it done inside an engine. It would be very interesting to get that process done as like you have mentioned before, it doesn't leave any residual debris.


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## delmar.atlas (Dec 9, 2021)

delmar.atlas said:


> I've seen this process alot on the older Porches and Ferrari. Alot of show cars use this method from the undercarriage to the engine bay. However I have never seen it done inside an engine. It would be very interesting to get that process done as like you have mentioned before, it doesn't leave any residual debris.


Thank you for the video. It's an easy opener .


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

No worries. I really don't like the new Forum format method for embedding videos as you can't control the size like you can with still images. 
By using the hyperlink function you can avoid the clutter. If you're unfamiliar with how to create a hyperlink click *here.*


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## Iceblue (Jul 20, 2018)

Where does the carbon gunk go as there is no media to evacuate or prevent it from shooting out all over the place. I presume all over the person operating the tool. They should have shown a before and after of the bloke covered in black gunk lol


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## Kenway (Jul 19, 2021)

Looks amazing!


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## french (Oct 7, 2018)

I used to work as a Tanker driver for BOC delivering nitrogen gas, in a confined area it displaces all oxygen causes severe to the bone frost bite. If applied to steel, aluminium, Iron etc for 10 minutes or more can make it shatter like glass if accidently struck to hard...The user would really know what they are doing to use this stuff, not just a case of a quick run through & off you go...


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

@ *French* - This isn't delivered as CO2 gas, it's crushed dry ice particles. Dry ice typically comes in the form of pellets which are made in a pelletizer (left). The pellets are then poured into a hopper (right) which it's then crushed and blown out under air pressure.


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## french (Oct 7, 2018)

I see SP, I would like to know approx cost opposed to Walnut basting in UK?


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## FNChaos (Nov 30, 2016)

The crushed CO2 pellets are used the same way as you would use any sandbaster medium.
Rather than use sand, plastic beads or walnut shells, you use small CO2 'ice' pellets that are propelled forcefully against the surface to be cleaned.

Once the pellets thaw they turn to CO2 gas which dissipates leaving no residue.


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## FNChaos (Nov 30, 2016)

french said:


> I used to work as a Tanker driver for BOC delivering nitrogen gas, in a confined area it displaces all oxygen causes severe to the bone frost bite.


Want to talk about cold, I used to use dewars full of liquid nitrogen to pre-chill superconductive magnets to a point were we could just start to add liquid helium without it all boiling off.
In fact, liquid nitrogen is so warm in comparison to liquid helium that we would use the nitrogen to melt / remove _'ice_' (in this case ice being frozen oxygen, etc).


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

@ *French* - Most of the labor cost is getting the intake manifold off and back on the vehicle. I would guess prices would start somewhere around 250-Euro. Call around, I'm sure there are a few shops that can do it. Also, try the Search feature for "walnut blasting" as I believe several members have had it done.

@ *FNChaos* - Now that's some serious cold!


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## FNChaos (Nov 30, 2016)

SwissJetPilot said:


> @ *FNChaos* - Now that's some serious cold!


-452.11 Fahrenheit (-270 C). Just 4.2 degrees kelvin above absolute zero.
If you're bored, look up Liquid Helium4 (aka superfluid helium) It has zero viscosity ?!..
It will pour right thru any container. Wild stuff


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## darrylmg (Oct 16, 2021)

It says that with dry ice, hoovering is still required to get the blasted stuff out:
"The waste products, which includes just the dislodged media, can be swept up, vacuumed or washed away depending on the containment."

Unless they leave any carbon deposits that have managed to get inside, to be burnt?


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## Flashy (Nov 8, 2019)

What's the simplest way of checking if your car needs it? I do have a boroscope


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## delmar.atlas (Dec 9, 2021)

Flashy said:


> What's the simplest way of checking if your car needs it? I do have a boroscope



I need one for future inspection, too bad I'm across the pond.


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

@ *darryimg* - I would imagine anything that's getting blasted is being obliterated and forced out under the blast pressure, so I doubt there's anything left in there. But sure, all that mess is going somewhere! But for a valve clean, there's not THAT much carbon build up, I could guess maybe a table spoon or less in total volume per port. Walnut media has to be vacuumed since you don't want any of the particles to remain in the port or blasted all over engine bay or the garage.

@ *Flashy *- From the various YouTube and other Forums I've seen/read, anything over 50,000 km will most likely need it for sure. According to the Humble Mechanic's *YouTube* channel, carbon deposits can start to accumulate around 10,000 miles as seen below on this 2019 Golf R. As for borescope access, see if there's anything on the manifold that can be easily removed that would accommodate a borescope inspection of the intake valves. You would have thought the boffins at VAG might have considered an inspection point for at least one port, but no. Otherwise I believe the manifold will have to come off for inspection.








@ *demlar.atlas* - You can pick a cheap borescope like this one from Amazon for less than $30. It connects to a Smartphone or laptop. I have one and for the price, it gets the job done.


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## Flashy (Nov 8, 2019)

Ah, mines on 88k now so probably needs it. I'll check out if there's anything local.


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## wsantos (Sep 7, 2020)

Very interesting thread, thanks SJP!

Found this garage that offers the service near Sunderland for a price comparison


https://www.performance-centre.co.uk/intake-valve-cleaning



£90 per cylinder

"The process of cleaning the ports and valves is not simple and some engine dissasembly must be carried out, great care needs to be taken not to damage the cylinder head or the valves themselves. The valves and ports are cleaned with various chemicals and then media blasted and cleaned using a neutralising agent. We require the car for 1 full day to strip down the intake and clean the valves and ports. All gaskets are also replaced as necessary. 

The price is per cylinder, additional costs may be incurred based on make, model and engine version and does not include the cost of replacement gaskets." 

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## EsnTT (May 27, 2019)

Ratarossa has recently put up a video of this process on one of his Ferrari projects. Needs very specialised kit so I would imagine it isn't cheap.


*Dry Ice Blasting*


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## Barr_end (Oct 19, 2016)

This is interesting, I've seen videos as other stated on the underside of car for cleaning but never inside.
I would like to try this on mine, after having it walnut blasted at 95k and now over 130k
I bet there is a fair bit even with use of decent spec oil, meth injection, catch can/PVC delete/vent.


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

It would be interesting to find out if there are mobile dry ice services that could perform this at the location of your choice. This would save you a lot of money by doing the grunt labor of getting the manifold off to expose the ports and putting it all back together when the blasting is done. Just turn the crank to position the valves as he goes along and you're good to go. It will probably take him more time to set up his equipment that it will to blast the valves.


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## wsantos (Sep 7, 2020)

Barr_end said:


> This is interesting, I've seen videos as other stated on the underside of car for cleaning but never inside.
> I would like to try this on mine, after having it walnut blasted at 95k and now over 130k
> I bet there is a fair bit even with use of decent spec oil, meth injection, catch can/PVC delete/vent.


I'll do a carbon cleaning with hydrogen this weekend and looking into having the intakes blasted later on. How much did you pay for the service and did the intakes really needed blasting the second time round?

Thanks 

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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

@ *wsantos* - With hydrogen? Seriously? Have them take pictures before and after to prove it did anything. Most of these types of chemical cleanings are nothing but scams. The carbon has to be physically removed (with hand tools or media blasting) in order to do this properly. There are literally dozens of YouTube videos proving that chemical treatments, including HHO, alone are useless.


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## wsantos (Sep 7, 2020)

I'm booked in to have Stage 3 cleaning done by this company






It is well recommended as a preventative maintenance service but I understand that it won't clean the intake valves which will need to be blasted later.

The process involving hydrogen lasts about 1 hour but the whole cycle then takes about a week of driving to finish cleaning up the system. 

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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

_It is well recommended as a preventative maintenance service... _By whom? The company that makes the machine or the TV presenter who's getting paid to advertise it?

_...but I understand that it won't clean the intake valves which will need to be blasted later_. So why bother? Seems like a massive waste of money.

..._the whole cycle then takes about a week of driving to finish cleaning up the system_ ....And what's magically going to happen while you're driving around? Oh, you mean the fuel injector cleaner they dumped in your tank? Uh huh. 

Did you listen to him? "_...carbon deposits are the root cause of 90% of all engine component failures_." followed by " ..._[this method] can sometimes rectify damage already done_."..I'm calling BS on both those claims. What a load of .

Sorry, but IMHO this sounds like nothing but snake oil out of a fancy machine promoted by a race car celebrity for people who have no clue how their fuel system or engine actually works. Good luck!


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## Wolvez (Jun 22, 2018)

OMG! That will do more harm to your engine. You don't want hard carbon to break free and hit the turbine wheel of the turbo. The automotive industry is full of snake oil. Carbon remover was invented very long time ago. 



https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLppkgAfZ1SDKacUMrYFZGA3yfOEA00MCe


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

+1 *Wolvez* - _You don't want hard carbon to break free and hit the turbine wheel _

Or accumulate in the CAT on its the way out the exhaust.


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

Mine were looked at around 70K and the mech said they were in good shape, a little carbon but nowhere near what he has seen on others, about the only thing that's gone right for me with mine lol


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## Wolvez (Jun 22, 2018)

Rufflesj said:


> Mine were looked at around 70K and the mech said they were in good shape, a little carbon but nowhere near what he has seen on others, about the only thing that's gone right for me with mine lol


Can you still see the metal at the tip of your exhaust pipe or is completely covered by carbon? Cleaning the intake valve only makes the engine idle more smoother. No noticeable increase in power. Removing carbon buildup at the exhaust makes huge increase in power.


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## wsantos (Sep 7, 2020)

@SwissJetPilot I get what you're saying and I appreciate your concern. But there are tons of positive reviews out there and the negative ones are basically people reporting no difference after the treatment.

Here's an example of the many reputable tuning specialists that also offer the hydrogen carbon cleaning service. Check out their testimonial





HydroFlow Engine Cleaning - TMS


Thorney Motorsport has been in the business of tuning cars for over 20 years and its fair to say we have seen our share of 'snake oil' products to emerge promising all kinds of performance gains. Oil additives, spurious petrol claims, engine flush treatments, pretty much all of them are there to...




www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk





If the hydrogen cleaning caused any issues I'm pretty they would have ruined the business model by now. 

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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

Well let us know how it goes.  Curious if your mileage and/or performance changes after it's done.


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## wsantos (Sep 7, 2020)

SwissJetPilot said:


> Well let us know how it goes.  Curious if your mileage and/or performance changes after it's done.


I will do. 

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## Wolvez (Jun 22, 2018)

wsantos said:


> But there are tons of positive reviews out there and the negative ones are basically people reporting no difference after the treatment.


Seafoam also have tons of positive review. Expert's opinion are paid and sponsored. Try soaking an old spark plug if it will remove the carbon buildup.


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## TT'sRevenge (Feb 28, 2021)

Problem with this dry ice business is the machine is too expensive for most shops to have. It's hard enough to find shops that do walnut blasting around here, dry ice machine is basically out of the question.

Even the popular VAG Technic on YT, well-known for doing lots of big jobs and engine-out stuff, looked into it and said the machine is too expensive. They stuck with walnut blasting--cheap and effective.


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## andym5250 (11 mo ago)

I recently used a company that uses Hydroflow. Personally, i noticed that the car was more responsive and my MPG almost doubled! The carbon must of been caked on!

TTS 2008 2.0 petrol manual 139,000 

Not paperwork stating its ever been cleaned


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## Wolvez (Jun 22, 2018)

TT'sRevenge said:


> Problem with this dry ice business is the machine is too expensive for most shops to have. It's hard enough to find shops that do walnut blasting around here, dry ice machine is basically out of the question.
> 
> Even the popular VAG Technic on YT, well-known for doing lots of big jobs and engine-out stuff, looked into it and said the machine is too expensive. They stuck with walnut blasting--cheap and effective.


Water based carbon remover is cheaper and more effective. Machine shop, heavy equipment and aviation industry are using this for so long. I used this on my intake valve. Without any exaggeration it make it look good as new. 

TURCO 9045-6 and Piston Kleen

Patent: 


US2466632A - Carbon remover and metal surface cleaning composition - Google Patents


*
Don't believe me just watch.* Set the brightness to max to see the carbon buildup.


https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLppkgAfZ1SDKacUMrYFZGA3yfOEA00MCe


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## wsantos (Sep 7, 2020)

andym5250 said:


> I recently used a company that uses Hydroflow. Personally, i noticed that the car was more responsive and my MPG almost doubled! The carbon must of been caked on!
> 
> TTS 2008 2.0 petrol manual 139,000
> 
> Not paperwork stating its ever been cleaned


I'm glad the "snake oil" worked for you  I'm getting some of it on Friday!

What mpg were you getting before? 

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## wsantos (Sep 7, 2020)

SwissJetPilot said:


> Well let us know how it goes.  Curious if your mileage and/or performance changes after it's done.


So had the hydrogen carbon engine cleaning done today. Took the car for a drive on the motorway and around town and WOW! It's such a nice surprise when what was already a fun car to drive can get even better! Car feels a lot more refined and about 15% more powerful. The best way I can describe the difference: it's equivalent to moving from a stock running cheap petrol to a remapped running Vpower.

Hope this makes sense. For the price, improvement in performance and time it takes, I'd be more than happy to recommend it. I'll report back on fuel economy.
















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## FNChaos (Nov 30, 2016)

Which laws of physics were violated to enable this magic?


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## wsantos (Sep 7, 2020)

FNChaos said:


> Which laws of physics were violated to enable this magic?


No laws of physics have been harmed during this engine clean. Bent at most only. 

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