# Brembo 17z feedback



## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Currently i`m running brembo gt junior calipers which is good enough for 270hp,but soon my car will have more than 400hp so i thought to upgrade my calipers with brembo 17z and adapters for 334x32mm V6 brake discs which already has been order it.
I would like to know if anyone else have similar setup and how is it?,thanks.


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## Beunhaas (May 14, 2014)

Hi,

Dont have them myself but did a hell of a lot reading when i had the intention to upgrade from the current setup to the 6 pot, and the bigger pistons on the 17z will give even more pedal travel than the 18z that are more than powerfull enough.

If i remember right the 18z on 334mm will fit most 17" wheels so there is simply no advantage of the 17z over 18z

Btw Energy = 0,5 times mass times speed squared. Even with 1000hp the brakes are still dissipating the same energy with equal weight. My 2ct


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Because of the size 18z calipers don`t fit 17 wheels;i know 17z have bigger pistons:Brembo 6 pot 17Z - pistons 34/36/38 = 3060mm2 and Brembo 6 pot 18Z - pistons 30/34/38 = 2750mm2 .
I did a lot of reading as well,the opinions are different;anyway,looks like these calipers needs proper bleeding to work well.
I can live with slightly more pedal travel.


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## Beunhaas (May 14, 2014)

hang your idols said:


> Because of the size 18z calipers don`t fit 17 wheels;i know 17z have bigger pistons:Brembo 6 pot 17Z - pistons 34/36/38 = 3060mm2 and Brembo 6 pot 18Z - pistons 30/34/38 = 2750mm2 .
> I did a lot of reading as well,the opinions are different;anyway,looks like these calipers needs proper bleeding to work well.
> I can live with slightly more pedal travel.


No no no my friend. The 18z is on Porsches fitted on a bigger rotor (350mm). Thats the reason why they need 18" min on Porsches with original rotor. You fit it on a smaller rotor so they do fit in 17" wheels. [smiley=book2.gif]


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

I agree, because of the standard rotor 350mm they don`t fit 17 wheels,but the far us i know,18z calipers are bigger than 17z(doesn`t matter they have smaller pistons),so again,they don`t fit 17 wheels.
Anyway,it`s to late,the order for 17z has been placed


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## Beunhaas (May 14, 2014)

hang your idols said:


> I agree, because of the standard rotor 350mm they don`t fit 17 wheels,but the far us i know,18z calipers are bigger than 17z(doesn`t matter they have smaller pistons),so again,they don`t fit 17 wheels.
> Anyway,it`s to late,the order for 17z has been placed


Hahaha no worries, 17z will smack your face through the window after proper bleeding


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

My wife will be very happy :lol:


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## conlechi (May 6, 2006)

I have looked at the 6 pots as well and was put off by the reported excessive pedal travel :? I look forward to hearing how you get on with them


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

hang your idols said:


> Currently i`m running brembo gt junior calipers which is good enough for 270hp,but soon my car will have more than 400hp so i thought to upgrade my calipers with brembo 17z and adapters for 334x32mm V6 brake discs which already has been order it.
> I would like to know if anyone else have similar setup and how is it?,thanks.


You have a list as long as your arm of mods in your signature, but you don't say what compound pads you are running in your calipers? You might want to look at them before splurging out on more unsprung weight. Cheaper too.

VT


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

I have DS2500,MOTUL RBF 600 and braided brake lines;like i`ve said are good enough for 270hp and even more,but not for more than 400hp(with my setup i should see 420-430hp).

PS.-anyone have 18z or similar?


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

hang your idols said:


> good enough for 270hp and even more,but not for more than 400hp.


You do realise that the braking force required is only dependent on the weight of the car and the speed it's travelling when you apply the brakes, don't you? Bhp isn't a factor.

The main reason for 'upgrading' calipers (apart from weight saving) is to improve cooling so that the brakes don't fade with repeated hard use. If your current system doesn't have that problem then they're absolutely fine, regardless of the bhp you expect to have. In fact, if you didn't have fade problems with the OEM brakes, then they'd be fine with 400bhp+ too.


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

With all the respect,i`m not interested in theories,i just want a feedback from people ho have BBK  
If BBK it`s so useless how some of you trying to suggest,then why powerful cars have them? It`s not all about cooling,whick is very important btw,but the force applied to brakes as well.

Anyway,like i`ve said,the kit has been order it,i should have them in the next 2-3 days,so it`s too late for theories


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

Your DS2500's are fairly close to the bottom of the performance food chain, plenty of better stopping pads further up, but it's too late now by the sounds of it. What m/c are you fitting?

VT


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

I know DS2500 are not the best,but they are ok for fast road,they do the job;what is m/c?


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

hang your idols said:


> It`s not all about cooling,whick is very important btw,but the force applied to brakes as well


Not really. Braking is about dissipating energy - and where do you think all that energy goes? It's turned into heat, so the best brakes are the ones that can dump heat in the most efficient way (that's why disc brakes outperform drum brakes - nothing to do with clamping pressures, just that discs are much better at cooling).

I know it's counter intuitive, and it's simpler to think of braking performance just in terms of how hard they press the pads onto the discs, but it's much more complex than that.

Still, time for theories is over...


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

Lets put this another way, braking from 100mph to 30mph in a 270bhp car, is exactly the same as braking from 100mph to 30mph in a 400bhp car. This isn't theory, this is fact.

SO

How do you use the car?

If it's on track then maybe your higher power means you'll be faster at the end of the straights so you'll need more stopping power?

If it's on the road, i doubt you'll be driving flat out non-stop, so your speeds entering corners are going to be the same regardless of your power?

Anyway, as said it's a bit late if you've already purchased a new set-up. VT was asking what Master Cylinder are you running with the setup, presumably the new calipers are going to stretch the capacity on the OEM one?


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Actually, as you're going to be changing your brakes anyway, this would be a good opportunity to get some real data (instead of theories) on stopping distances. You could find a quiet road where you could measure stopping distance from a fixed speed before and after the upgrade to confirm how much of an improvement they are, then post the results here.


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

Beunhaas said:


> 17z will smack your face through the window after proper bleeding


True, but so will the stock calipers, good and fresh fluid, steel braided lines, but most importantly good pad and tire compounds. I can lock all 4 brakes with ease at 30 mph in my car (although easier with the front due to the horribly unbalanced factory bias) with the stock calipers, and that's with supper grippy 315mm wide race slicks.



Von Twinzig said:


> but you don't say what compound pads you are running in your calipers? You might want to look at them
> VT


Truth! People underestimate the importance of pad compound to braking performance. Most don't know that it's the biggest and easiest improvement you can make to your brakes -- not caliper size, number of pots, but pad compounds.



Spandex said:


> You do realise that the braking force required is only dependent on the weight of the car and the speed it's travelling when you apply the brakes, don't you? Bhp isn't a factor.
> 
> The main reason for 'upgrading' calipers (apart from weight saving) is to improve cooling so that the brakes don't fade with repeated hard use. If your current system doesn't have that problem then they're absolutely fine, regardless of the bhp you expect to have. In fact, if you didn't have fade problems with the OEM brakes, then they'd be fine with 400bhp+ too.


Some more truth! The real clear advantage to "BBK" are unsprung weight reduction, better cooling, and better distribution of force applied on the pads. Stopping distance isn't necessarily improved unless pad size and swept area is changed, or leverage is altered (pad distance to center of the hub).

Where I'm getting at is people often confuse braking mods for the tuning scene to braking mods for all out performance. The tuning scene has to incorporate visual appeal to everything, which is not necessarily what performance dictates. Mitsubishi fitted large red Brembo front calipers to the all the normal CT9a Evo trims... but guess what, the track-dedicated RS model came with smaller Mitsu front calipers with less pots and no ABS. Why? Because the smaller calipers housed much better pad swept area with increased mechanical leverage. For example, with what I have gathered with the TT (AWD 225 brakes with vented rear discs), the components that need improving the most are:

1) The bias. The stock bias is super conservative and the rear is not doing enough compared to the front. That's why I sometime use a staggered pad compound setup to increase the mechanical work achieved in the rear. The fisrst brake mod in my list is to increase the rear caliper leverage by spacing them away from the center of the hub while using larger diameter 2-piece light rotors.

2) Booster reserve volume. The reserve for the brake assist in the TT is small (look at the R32 booster volume for a similar platform and weight). Depleting the booster of stored vacuum is really easy with this car. Due to space restrictions on US-spec cars, there is not much that can be done, so in my car I added an auxilary vacuum reservoir to add a liter of capacity to the standard system. IMO much more important than looking at the shiniest caliper with the biggest number of pots.

It's easy to get caught up in trends and do popular mods without knowing or thinking why we're doing them. Master cylinder and booster size, system fluid capacity, and mechanical leverage are what can make a big difference in clamping force, yet number of pots and caliper size are what the "scene" spend thousands on "upgrading". Something to think about!


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

Amen to that ^^^^

To quote KarlD "Tickbox tuning".


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## firediamonduk (Dec 24, 2013)

I have often wondered why people bother with spending £1000k plus on big red Brembo's when the factory brakes seem perfectly acceptable to me.

I understand if it is a track car because i imagine the stock brakes overheat quickly but for fast road i dont see the need other than as above tickbox modding

I drive hard and fast often on the road (yet to have a go at a track day) and when some penis drives out in front of me without looking the wheels still lock when i stamp on the stop pedal so surely all that is achieved by bigger brakes is even earlier locking? I have plenty of confidence in my brakes, although as MadMax says they are a bit front bias but then sticking a massive set of Brembos on the front and then not upgrading the rear (which im sure lots of people do) is surely making that even worse?

And as Nick and others have pointed out stopping from 100 is the same regardless if you have 100bhp or 1000bhp and unless you are on a track with some long striaghts then your speed isnt really going to be much different.

I am genuinely interested in the advantages of fitting bigger brakes beyond the aesthetic aspect...?


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

firediamonduk said:


> I am genuinely interested in the advantages of fitting bigger brakes beyond the aesthetic aspect...?


Massive unsprung weight savings - 3kg per corner is easy to achieve, which will help with suspension responsiveness hugely! (Combine that with lighter wheels (Rotational weight) and you could save 10kg a corner!).


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## Garth (Feb 7, 2012)

And just to add, on my first TT, I fitted porsche Brembos (and not the shitty rear calipers some people fit to the front of Vw/Audi)and the difference in real world braking was so small, it wasn't worth it. they felt a little better and looked cooler, but the car didn't slow down any faster!

On my current TT, with new oem discs and pads and better fluid, the brakes are just as good. I recently replaced all four tyres (Hankook Ventus S1 Evo 2) to replace the budget Haida tyres that were on it and they made MUCH more of a difference to braking than the Brembos made to the last car on Falken Fk452 tyres.

To sum up, I won't be fitting bigger brakes to this TT at all.

http://gogetfunding.com/aba-for-ben/


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## Garth (Feb 7, 2012)

Forgot to mention, I have no flexi pipes on the rear at all right now. It's new Kunifer hard lines right up to the calipers and this gives a bigger improvement to pedal feel than braided steel pipes. It is however, completely impractical as you can't remove the caliper Easily! 
It's a temporary measure when I replaced the corroded mild steel pipes and the original flexi joints were past it. Once I get some new braided lines for the car, I'll fit them if and when I need to remove the calipers, but for now there's no need.

http://gogetfunding.com/aba-for-ben/


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## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

firediamonduk said:


> I am genuinely interested in the advantages of fitting bigger brakes beyond the aesthetic aspect...?


The lower weight and increased rigidity of monoblock calipers offer obvious benefits over the sliding 2 piece OEM calipers. The OEM calipers can clamp the pads "unsquarely" and lead to pad taper or odd wearing problems. The rigidity shows up in pedal modulation and consistency of feel. That said, you can get by with good pads and fluids unless you are on a tight technical course that is rough on brakes/tires in general.


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Ok guys,looks like nobody have BBK,but everybody have theories;i will report myself how is in real world to have BBK.

I didn`t said what are my intention with my car,but to be clear,i will use it occasionally for drag,track and rally,but in the same time to be a street car for daily using(i will not take my rear seats to be lighter :lol: ).
Obviously i`m using and i will use good braking fluids,pads(this time i need something better than DS2500,perhaps Pagid RS, Carbotech, Carbone Lorraine or Endless) and tyres.
Who said OEM brakes are good enough,o dear, i can`t stop laughing :lol: ,is because they never had real brakes.

Anyway,looks like on this forum to have Brembo GT junior and hybrid turbo is the mother of God;i`m in the devil side,big turbo,stroker,big brakes and later one meth kit(without water)  .

Garth,i don`t remember from your old TT thread you had Porsche BBK;can you please show me?,thanks.


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## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

hang your idols said:


> i will use it occasionally for drag,track and rally........
> 
> Who said OEM brakes are good enough,o dear, i can`t stop laughing :lol: ,is because they never had real brakes.


Those of us who actually track our cars, unlike you, who just said you will one day......and I've had Porsche calipers on my car and went back to stock for a track day a few months ago. So maybe you shouldn't assume what others have and haven't done compared to what you haven't done.


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

There's two types of people on here, those who like the show and the numbers... and those that like the performance and real world stats, who abuse their car on track. It's up to you who you listen to. :?

As said, pad choice makes a massive difference, i've had no issues with fade, braking from 140mph into a chicane on track, with OEM calipers and Mintex M1144's (And these are supposed to be 'entry level' performance pads) and decent fresh racing fluid. Anyone with an equal setup who experiences fade on the road, quite frankly should have their license taken away as it's a long long way from safe to drive that fast on a public road.


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

CollecTTor said:


> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> > i will use it occasionally for drag,track and rally........
> ...


You have no idea what i did or i will do and i don`t like to explain myself,lets`t why i didn`t said at the beginning what are my intentions;i don`t like to much talking,if i want to hear stories,i`m going to the pub :lol:

I`ve asked a simple question,no answer,but to much talking.


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

NickG said:


> There's two types of people on here, those who like the show and the numbers... and those that like the performance and real world stats, who abuse their car on track. It's up to you who you listen to. :?
> 
> As said, pad choice makes a massive difference, i've had no issues with fade, braking from 140mph into a chicane on track, with OEM calipers and Mintex M1144's (And these are supposed to be 'entry level' performance pads) and decent fresh racing fluid. Anyone with an equal setup who experiences fade on the road, quite frankly should have their license taken away as it's a long long way from safe to drive that fast on a public road.


Nick,maybe for you it`s good enough(talking about brakes),but what is good for you,it`s not good for others 

Ok,i don`t ask anything anymore(i opened this thread only for FEEDBACK) ,it`s clear it`s waste of time coz actually nobody have BBK beside theories(which i didn`t ask for them,nor to justify what i`m doing with my money).

Like i`ve said before,i will report how is actually to have this brakes;beside that, for me this subject is closed


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

hang your idols said:


> Who said OEM brakes are good enough,o dear, i can`t stop laughing :lol: ,is because they never had real brakes.


Maybe saying that the visual appearance is also important to you would have been a better argument. You needed experience and people with actual experience on what real braking needs are gave their inputs, but it seems that it was not what you wanted to hear. My TT is as hardcore as you're going to find on these TT forums, and is modded for only one purpose, go fast around a track (I have enough mods to buy two more TT). You think that I would advocate for better pads, and other braking mods if there was substantially more to gain from the generic BBK? You can laugh all you want but if the stock hardware (with real pads, and fluid) is adequate for my use, I'd be shocked if the use you intend to have with yours require more.

Like mentioned before, you will get better pedal feel, travel consistency, weight reduction, and even wear from a well thought out BB upgrade (one that includes consideration to brake bias and reaction from the ABS system). However, discarding helpful and sound advice by several members that have been operating their TT in actual conditions that put brakes to the test isn't smart. Good luck!


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## Garth (Feb 7, 2012)

hang your idols said:


> Garth,i don`t remember from your old TT thread you had Porsche BBK;can you please show me?,thanks.


I'm using tapacrap, so not sure if this link will work: page 55 onwards I think on the Web version... 
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=262876&start=825










http://gogetfunding.com/aba-for-ben/


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

Garth said:


> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> > Garth,i don`t remember from your old TT thread you had Porsche BBK;can you please show me?,thanks.
> ...


Good read that! Where they the 986 non-s calipers on standard 312mm discs?

If so that's the setup I was looking at to aid unsprung weight reduction!


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## Garth (Feb 7, 2012)

They were yes. The feel was nicer, but overall i'd say there wasn't a big enough jump to be worthwhile.I certainly didn't notice any difference as a result of lower weight.

http://gogetfunding.com/aba-for-ben/


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

Garth said:


> They were yes. The feel was nicer, but overall i'd say there wasn't a big enough jump to be worthwhile.I certainly didn't notice any difference as a result of lower weight.
> 
> http://gogetfunding.com/aba-for-ben/


Yeah that's a fair enough comment for the road, I wouldn't bother either, the OEM setup with decent pads is brilliant!

Every kg counts for the track though, so these are supposed to save 6kg in total! Should be easier to cool too, along with a better feel as you say.


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## Beunhaas (May 14, 2014)

hang your idols said:


> NickG said:
> 
> 
> > There's two types of people on here, those who like the show and the numbers... and those that like the performance and real world stats, who abuse their car on track. It's up to you who you listen to. :?
> ...


Definitely right. 330mm front 300mm rear isnt bbk. Its all about that 4 mm on the 334mm.
Personally adding 300mm to the rear made more difference in stopping power than upping the fronts like max also mentioned


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

hang your idols said:


> Like i`ve said before,i will report how is actually to have this brakes;beside that, for me this subject is closed


I definitely think you should do this. But it needs before and after stopping distance measurements from some set speeds (or maybe there's a phone app that measures deceleration, I've not checked), not subjective stuff about how they feel. Will you be able to do this?


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

hang your idols said:


> Nick,maybe for you it`s good enough(talking about brakes),but what is good for you,it`s not good for others
> 
> Ok,i don`t ask anything anymore(i opened this thread only for FEEDBACK) ,it`s clear it`s waste of time coz actually nobody have BBK beside theories(which i didn`t ask for them,nor to justify what i`m doing with my money).
> 
> Like i`ve said before,i will report how is actually to have this brakes;beside that, for me this subject is closed


That's fine, but in truth this thread was a complete waste of time and space. You asked for feedback on 30th Nov and despite the comments back questioning your thinking, two days later you pulled the trigger. Clearly your mind was already made up and you only posted to try a garner support for your case, and when it wasn't forthcoming you got upset and stomped off. It's like folk who scour the papers looking for adverts of high end goods to justify their purchase after the event to give them some kind of comfort that their decision was the right one. Daft, but it's a free (ish) world and you have the right to waste your money as much as the next guy. :?

VT


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Spandex said:


> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> > Like i`ve said before,i will report how is actually to have this brakes;beside that, for me this subject is closed
> ...


I agree with you;unfortunately i have 225/45/17 winter tires and i`m planning to swap the brakes in the spring when i will fit 235/40/18 summer tires,so in this case the comparison will be irrelevant.


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Von Twinzig said:


> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> > Nick,maybe for you it`s good enough(talking about brakes),but what is good for you,it`s not good for others
> ...


VT,everything in this life can be complicated or easy;i asked a simple question,feedback,not to question my judgement ,or anything else.
I didn`t get upset in this case coz i don`t need support for how i`m spending my money,that it`s childish :lol:

PS.-yep,was/is complete waste of time and spice this threat,i never know till now i need the permission for other forum members to have BBK;it`s good coz i didn`t post other things which i did with my car and engine,ho knows what could happen :lol:


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Beunhaas said:


> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> > NickG said:
> ...


 :lol: 
I will pretend i don`t see the irony from your post,only the funny part  
It`s not only about de size of the discs,but the size of the caliper pistons :wink:


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Garth said:


> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> > Garth,i don`t remember from your old TT thread you had Porsche BBK;can you please show me?,thanks.
> ...


Thanks Garth.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

hang your idols said:


> I agree with you;unfortunately i have 225/45/17 winter tires and i`m planning to swap the brakes in the spring when i will fit 235/40/18 summer tires,so in this case the comparison will be irrelevant.


Then I don't think you'll be able to give much feedback about the brakes actual performance at all, as I would expect the change of tyres to have a significantly bigger effect than any change in brakes could.

It's a shame, but for every single bbk thread on this forum (and it's a popular mod) I've never seen anyone bother to actually measure the performance differences, if any. It's odd because for every other performance mod people will regularly compare before and after VCDS logs at the very least, if they can't get on the rollers, but for brakes you just get a load of subjective comments about how they "slam you through the windscreen" (which to me sounds more like a lack of modulation than an increase in stopping power, but whatever) with nothing to back up the claims. I sometimes think our American cousins focus too much on data when it comes to how a car drives, but in this case I think we're letting the side down by refusing to measure anything at all.


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## Beunhaas (May 14, 2014)

Spandex said:


> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with you;unfortunately i have 225/45/17 winter tires and i`m planning to swap the brakes in the spring when i will fit 235/40/18 summer tires,so in this case the comparison will be irrelevant.
> ...


I agree with tests to show the stopping distance but its pretty hard to do it under exactly the same conditions. For example weather, bedding the pads, tire wear etc


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Beunhaas said:


> I agree with tests to show the stopping distance but its pretty hard to do it under exactly the same conditions. For example weather, bedding the pads, tire wear etc


You're right that a completely scientific comparison which isolates only the caliper change is all but impossible, but just about everyone who has had a bbk fitted on here has come back immediately to gush about the massive improvements. I'd like to see data to back up those observations at least.

Tyre wear and weather won't be an issue though, as long as the before and after tests are done on the same day.


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

Was going to say the same, often people will upgrade to a better pad too, so it's difficult to know what provides the better performance enhancement. :?

That being said, i'll do a test using my current M1144's and then repeat for my next pad and see what difference it makes!


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## Beunhaas (May 14, 2014)

Spandex said:


> Beunhaas said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with tests to show the stopping distance but its pretty hard to do it under exactly the same conditions. For example weather, bedding the pads, tire wear etc
> ...


I was indeed thinking about doing it on same day only problem is bedding the pads in one day requires a nice one day Road trip but deffinately possible. Maybe if someone likes to make it real sientific they could use a hub dyno if there is enough inertia in that


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

A very brief search showed the following app which has a brake testing function:

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/ct-spee ... 65530?mt=8

There are bound to be others, and Android ones too. The accelerometers in modern smart phones should be accurate enough to give reasonable braking distance measurements.

To be honest, my motivation isn't to identify which component has improved braking performance (as you and others have said, this would probably be too difficult), it's really to see if the improvements are remotely meaningful at all. My suspicion is that *any *changes you make to the brakes will have only a very minor effect on stopping distances, unlikely to be noticeable without measurements. Sure, on the track every tenth counts and even minor improvements are worth investing in, but for real world driving I suspect a change in tyres would be a much wiser investment.


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## Garth (Feb 7, 2012)

I personally think this is a very interesting read on the subject of big brake kits for street cars:
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/brake ... e-upgrade/

Having said everything I and others have already said, if anyone just wants to fit a BBK, then do it. They do look cool and usually do have advantages. I just wouldn't fit one expecting huge increases in breaking performance on the road. I think using the money for better tyres is a much better option. If I had masses of spare cash though, I'd get a BBK.

http://gogetfunding.com/aba-for-ben/


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Spandex said:


> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with you;unfortunately i have 225/45/17 winter tires and i`m planning to swap the brakes in the spring when i will fit 235/40/18 summer tires,so in this case the comparison will be irrelevant.
> ...


I agree again with you;other thing which i forgot to mention,i will use better pads than DS2500 which i have now,so again,will be less relevant.

Anyway,comparing OEM brakes with standard brake pads with LCR brembo with DS2500,motul rbf 600 and braided brake lines,it`s night and day difference.


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Garth said:


> I personally think this is a very interesting read on the subject of big brake kits for street cars:
> http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/brake ... e-upgrade/
> 
> Having said everything I and others have already said, if anyone just wants to fit a BBK, then do it. They do look cool and usually do have advantages. I just wouldn't fit one expecting huge increases in breaking performance on the road. I think using the money for better tyres is a much better option. If I had masses of spare cash though, I'd get a BBK.
> ...


+1 sir! 

Talking about tires,they are very important,are the first contact between car and the ground;i`ve seen to many people spending a lot of money in their cars,but buying chinese tires :lol:


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## Garth (Feb 7, 2012)

hang your idols said:


> Talking about tires,they are very important,are the first contact between car and the ground;i`ve seen to many people spending a lot of money in their cars,but buying chinese tires :lol:


I read a thread on here recently where someone (who shall rename nameless) had fitted massive 6 pot brakes, but still had cheap Chinese ditchfinder tyres. I guarantee stopping distances will be greater than OEM brakes with decent tyres...


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Today the calipers arrived,they are massive!


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## infidel.uk (Feb 21, 2015)

Now look at the size of your servo/master cylinder, lol

good luck !


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

infidel.uk said:


> Now look at the size of your servo/master cylinder, lol
> 
> good luck !


The s/m it`s small :lol: ;thanks!


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

Von Twinzig said:


> Your DS2500's are fairly close to the bottom of the performance food chain, plenty of better stopping pads further up, but it's too late now by the sounds of it. *What m/c are you fitting?*
> 
> VT


As I said back here. 8)

VT


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## Beunhaas (May 14, 2014)

As far as i know there isnt an OEM master cylinder and servo that fits the tt without a lot of hassle but who knows :lol:


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Von Twinzig said:


> Von Twinzig said:
> 
> 
> > Your DS2500's are fairly close to the bottom of the performance food chain, plenty of better stopping pads further up, but it's too late now by the sounds of it. *What m/c are you fitting?*
> ...


I didn`t know what is m/c in that time  ;most probably i will try with the standard one.


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## Garth (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm lazy, so I've copied the following from another source :

the larger diameter master cylinder means it pushes more fluid per unit travel on the pedal, i.e. if you had a 3/4" and pushed the pedal down 1 cm you would displace an amout of fluid, If you had a 1" and pushed down an 1 cm you would displace more fluid.

In layman's terms, the bigger and more pistons on your calipers, the more fluid is required to push them. With a pair of big 6 pots, you need much more fluid than oem single piston calipers. That means you have to push further on the brake pedal. 
You may find that although your new 6 pots stop you really well, but I personally couldn't live with that feeling of having to move the pedal a mile before any braking happens!

http://gogetfunding.com/aba-for-ben/


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## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...l-Review-Eurowise-O2M-clutch-cylinder-upgrade


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## Beunhaas (May 14, 2014)

CollecTTor said:


> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...l-Review-Eurowise-O2M-clutch-cylinder-upgrade


Yeah nice a bigger clutch cylinder. Thought the OP is doing his brakes but i think i missed something [smiley=freak.gif]


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## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

Beunhaas said:


> CollecTTor said:
> 
> 
> > http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...l-Review-Eurowise-O2M-clutch-cylinder-upgrade
> ...


My apologies, I didn't even click the link. I thought the person who started that thread installer a Tilton M/C. Back to searching for the correct thread.....


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## Beunhaas (May 14, 2014)

CollecTTor said:


> Beunhaas said:
> 
> 
> > CollecTTor said:
> ...


Hahaha no problems. I can remember vaguely some guy here in Holland who fitted a vw transporter master cylinder with Porsche cayenne servo for his bbk. Lets see if i can find a link of that. (But also not p&p)

Edit- it was fitted to a tt mk1 ofcourse


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## pinotattt (Oct 5, 2007)

I've gone from the Brembo 4 pot Gt Junior off Cupra R to the 17Z and brake travel is identical :wink:


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## Beunhaas (May 14, 2014)

pinotattt said:


> I've gone from the Brembo 4 pot Gt Junior off Cupra R to the 17Z and brake travel is identical :wink:


Physically imposible. You probably had air in the brembo junior set and bleeded the 17z verry good.


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## David C (Apr 15, 2013)

Has anyone got the actual piston sizes to workout the new verses old or original piston volume in the caliper?

Having more pistons doesn't automatically mean more volume.


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

LCR Brembo vs Porsche Cayenne Brembo 17z


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

Wow, look at all that added unsprung weight. Brilliant.


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## pinotattt (Oct 5, 2007)

Beunhaas said:


> pinotattt said:
> 
> 
> > I've gone from the Brembo 4 pot Gt Junior off Cupra R to the 17Z and brake travel is identical :wink:
> ...


Travel is the same, if the 4 pot needed bleeding it would have had a spongy pedal which wasn't the case and different :wink:


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

NickG said:


> Wow, look at all that added unsprung weight. Brilliant.


Wow,so impressive unnecessary comment ,brilliant! :lol: 
Just for the record,by hand looks similar weight,coz OEM adapters are heavy,so all together LCR brembo with adaptors vs porsche brembo with adaptors have similar weight;obviously the brake discs will be heavier,but LCR discs are heavier then standard discs too :lol:


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## Beunhaas (May 14, 2014)

hang your idols said:


> NickG said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, look at all that added unsprung weight. Brilliant.
> ...


If you could weight every part that comes of and goes on and post it here that would be interesting.


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

I will do that including feedback,but we have to wait till spring when i will change the brakes;right now i`m focused to finish with the engine and i need some more parts from USA(supertech valves and springs).


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

hang your idols said:


> right now i`m focused to finish with the engine and i need some more parts from USA(supertech valves and springs).


OT, but why not go to Rosten stuff that is on your side of the pond and equally as good with friendlier pricing? :wink:


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Madmax199 said:


> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> > right now i`m focused to finish with the engine and i need some more parts from USA(supertech valves and springs).
> ...


i have to search for rosten stuff,i didn`t think about them...,all the stuff from my engine has been bought from USA.

PS.-i have not found anything from rosten,looks like they have standard parts for 1,8??!


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

hang your idols said:


> Madmax199 said:
> 
> 
> > hang your idols said:
> ...


No, Rosten does performance valvetrain components. For example their valve spring set for the 1.8T is linked below (I like them because there is no need for extra shims, and stock retainers work):
http://rosten-performance.com/products/ ... springset/


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## Beunhaas (May 14, 2014)

With those springs alone what rpm could you run safe?


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

Beunhaas said:


> With those springs alone what rpm could you run safe?


I have been revving to 7,500 rpm for a couple of years on the stock drivetrain -- with these springs *and a set of exhaust valves*, I would run to 8.5-9k rpm with confidence.


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## Beunhaas (May 14, 2014)

Madmax199 said:


> Beunhaas said:
> 
> 
> > With those springs alone what rpm could you run safe?
> ...


Always liked how the rev tacho flies out of the scale on evos. Now that would be fun in a tt :lol:


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Madmax199 said:


> Beunhaas said:
> 
> 
> > With those springs alone what rpm could you run safe?
> ...


I thought that springs are standard,their website it`s poor in explanations;what about exhaust valves,this one are good?

http://rosten-performance.com/products/ ... td-size-3/

I was looking to this supertech valves,what do you think?Did you changed your springs and valves?

http://www.performancebyie.com/supertec ... e-set-1-8t


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

You are right the website is not the best, they make solid products however. The spring set I linked (dual inner/outer exhaust, single intake) is a performance set.

http://rosten-performance.com/products/ ... springset/

Best bet is to call them on the valves, that way you are sure to get the right ones. Intake valves are fine, it's the exhaust ones that need upgrading.


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Yes,i know the exhaust valves i need to replace;thanks Max.


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

I`ve emailed Rosten and their replay: Yes they have much stronger solid valve stem so much stronger than the standard hollow stem.
That it`s good to know,but the price for the shipment it`s crazy,140 euro,which is more expansive if i buy from the States  ,but all together it`s still cheaper.


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Ok guys,i forgot about this topic,sorry for delay,so this is my feedback:

Before:-brembo LCR,pagid brake discs,ferodo ds2500 brake pads,motul rbf 600 brake fluid,kumho ku39 225/45/17 tyres

Now:-brembo 17z,ebc brake discs,yellowstuff brake pads,motuul rbf 660,dunlop sport maxx rt 235/40/18

First,there is a very slight increase pedal travel,nothing noticeable;i don`t feel any difference between those 2 when braking speeds up to 80mph,but...there is a BIG difference in stopping power when the car it`s driven very fast,100mph, 120mph and so on.

In both cases when i abuse the brakes(fast road driving) it`s coming smoke from the pads,but they don`t fade.

It`s worth it?In my opinion yes if you have a high power car,i would say till 300hp brembo lcr with good brake pads it`s good enough,but if have 400-500hp it`s well worth it a BBK;it`s nothing scientific,i didn`t measure the brake distance,it`s based on my impression.


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## Buckyboy109 (9 mo ago)

Madmax199 said:


> True, but so will the stock calipers, good and fresh fluid, steel braided lines, but most importantly good pad and tire compounds. I can lock all 4 brakes with ease at 30 mph in my car (although easier with the front due to the horribly unbalanced factory bias) with the stock calipers, and that's with supper grippy 315mm wide race slicks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How did you do this? Very interested as this extremely logical and should be very effective


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