# Handling TTRS vs TTRS plus vs BMW M235i



## Redhatch (Nov 1, 2016)

TTRS vs TTRS plus Vs M235i handling

Hi all. I'm brand new to the forum so go easy on me
I am thinking of changing my current BMW m235i auto for a TTRS or TTRSplus. Couple of reasons but the main one being I really miss having a manual gearbox.
My question is to anyone who owns a TTRS and has decent (not 30 min test drive) experience driving an m235i or similar sporty beemers or M cars.
How much difference do anti roll bars and geo set up/alignment make to the RS's handling and will I ever be able to modify it to a stage where it feels as nimble and well balanced as the Beemer? And is there any difference (other than power) between the RS and RS plus? Steering maybe?
I drove a TTRS about a year ago and liked it. Then drove a TTRS plus yesterday and loved the engine, manual shift, and the interior but really didn't like the handling or steering. When cornering It just felt heavy and cumbersome compared to the Beemer. It didn't have the nimble eagerness on turn-in that I take for granted in the Beemer. Curable? Or am I always going to miss the 235s handling?!
Many thanks in advance


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

Redhatch said:


> Or am I always going to miss the 235s handling?!


this... I think. I mean... if the thought already crossed your mind....

Although I just own a 10 year old humble 2.0 TT I do feel that Audi's just aren't very exciting to drive. In terms of handling even my MX-5 (also rear wheel drive :wink: ) is more fun.

The other day I read a road test of the new TT RS.... comments: perhaps too perfect and slightly boring. And while the stopwatch may decide the TT is the winner, it's the feeling that counts.

You can tweak any car no end, but you won't turn a TT in a rear wheel drive car, with all pros and cons that come with it.

So why do I own the TT then? I wanted the looks of a TT, the maintenance costs of a Golf and the boring soothing drive of an Audi after a long day at the office. I didn't need any thrills during my daily commute.

Time for a weekend of test driving and to listen to what your heart has to say. Good luck.


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## qooqiiu (Oct 12, 2007)

Differences between the RS and the plus:

The main points the Plus has carbon wing mirrors and carbon bits under the bonnet. Sports exhaust and a slight power hike over the regular RS. Both can be mapped to 390-410.

I had an M3 before the RS for a very short time. I also have access to a 420d cab and recently had a 130 for a couple of weeks. 
So although no experience of the 235i - BMW interiors and steering feel I can comment on.

There is a purity to the BMW steering that you get from it only doing the steering that's undeniable.

The RS steering is quite heavy and has not a lot of feel. This i don't really mind as for me it is a blunt axe. It demolishes country lanes and makes me a traffic light champion. It looks superb! the interior especially with buckets is a lovely place to be. I would say magnetic ride is a must unless you are planning to fit some kind of aftermarket suspension set up. When not activated the car has too much roll for my liking. Even when it's engaged to does roll more than I'd like when really chucking it round corners. I am contemplating fitting the 034 mototsports antiroll bar for some roll elimination.

Only down side for me is the mpg. 25 is what I get and that hurts a little. I'd imagine the 235i would get low to mid 30's quite regularly?

Oh and it's just a matter of time before they go up in price. Surely... :lol:


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## Redhatch (Nov 1, 2016)

TT-driver said:


> Redhatch said:
> 
> 
> > Or am I always going to miss the 235s handling?!
> ...


Great reply, thank you. I feared that might be the case. shame because there was a lot to like about the RS.


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

It's a great handling car - mine has Bilstein coils, adjustable arb's and a performance haldex and it is very quick through bends and the engine is just glorious - but it won't handle like a BMW - never. But if you learn to drive it (that's not being patronising I just mean learn what it can and can't do) you will have a very fast road car


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## Templar (Mar 9, 2012)

A combination of most of the previous post...the TTRS will never steer as well as your 235 for several reasons and the main ones being the quattro system and fairly numb steering. But with some careful suspension modifications and geometry settings and learning to drive it which would be in a different way to a rear wheel drive car and you'll be surprised how well and enjoyable you make progress on challenging roads, they can cover ground extremely quickly . Also worth remembering that they are very usable in winter conditions too.


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## BMTTS (Jan 29, 2016)

I used to own a 330i, 335i then the M3 V8 & have driven a M135i so can't give you exact answers but what I can say is you can't beat the way a beemer feels end of  It was such a pity the M135i was so,so ugly LOL. I now have a TTS & am happy with my choice for the most part but you will notice with the the Audis that the build quality is disappointing & has a poor standard level of equipment, little things like the cruise control-crap! doesn't hold its speed down a hill like the beemers did 10 years ago! I also have to mention mechanically, Audis in general don't have that perfect feeling of a BMW either.

Having said that, I still fell in love with mine & given all that isn't perfect they still have an x-factor worth investing in.  Oh and Quattro, yeah, its a feel killer but full throttle pull outs never get boring


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

Redhatch said:


> Great reply, thank you. I feared that might be the case. shame because there was a lot to like about the RS.


You're welcome


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## Templar (Mar 9, 2012)

BMTTS said:


> I used to own a 330i, 335i then the M3 V8 & have driven a M135i so can't give you exact answers but what I can say is you can't beat the way a beemer feels end of  It was such a pity the M135i was so,so ugly LOL. I now have a TTS & am happy with my choice for the most part but you will notice with the the Audis that the build quality is disappointing & has a poor standard level of equipment, little things like the cruise control-crap! doesn't hold its speed down a hill like the beemers did 10 years ago! I also have to mention mechanically, Audis in general don't have that perfect feeling of a BMW either.
> 
> Having said that, I still fell in love with mine & given all that isn't perfect they still have an x-factor worth investing in.  Oh and Quattro, yeah, its a feel killer but full throttle pull outs never get boring


I had two BMW E34's some years ago a 330 CI and M3 great cars and I like the interiors but and this is a big but the later 3 series and especially the couple of 1 series that my wife had owned I found the interiors really dull and quite plastic feeling. The run flat tyres and a slight fidgety ride also left a lot to be desired I thought.
For me as a good all rounder the TT especially the TTRS is a tough one to beat and like you say full throttle pull out in all weathers never bored me either.


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## Stealth69 (Jun 25, 2012)

Can't beat the way a beemer feels? are you joking? they are numb pieces of over engineered, over priced bore wagons! the interior is sparse, not a great place to be and it's all a bit dull unless you drive sideways everywhere, they have zero soul or character and just fall short of an inspiring fun to be in car! The only one that made my balls tingle was my Z3M and that was just because it was very small and over powered LOL

I've had the Z3M, M5's, E36 M3 and E46 M3, 1 series piece of wank...... all do the same thing, they are quick ish cars, but the power is incredibly linear, there's no drama and no fun!

All the German big boy brands are the same, they all try and be super refined etc etc and then they try and be sporty whilst retaining the comforts of the old farts or those that want a comfy ride and have only bought the big boy car for the badge.... willy waving rights.

If you want something nimble and fun then you need to look elsewhere my friend, I have my TT for the daily commute and it serves it's purpose, good looking motor, comfy and reliable, it's not going to break any speed records or upset any other cars, although the constant hairdressing and gay boy jibes do wear a thin at times.

If you want something great fun to drive then you have to go Japanese it's that simple, quick, nimble, character 

Get a TTS TT and a jap missile for fun, it's a good combo


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## aquazi (Dec 24, 2014)

I'd have to disagree with the above.... i think for a fun daily (maybe not the fastest point to point) then the M235/240 would get my vote.

I'm sorely tempted to getting one.... if only the backside wasnt as ugly!!

As a daily A to B car the RS probably is quicker in the real world... but the steering is numb and there is no kick in the backside torque surge. Also there is no armrest and overall driver comfort would be better in the BMW.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## qooqiiu (Oct 12, 2007)

aquazi said:


> there is no kick in the backside torque surge.. Also there is no arm rest.


Wrong on both counts there.


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## ldhxvs (Aug 18, 2016)

Both are lovely cars, the TTRS has a better instrument cluster and steering wheel in my opinion. The m235i has a lot more badges saying its an M car, even though it strictly isn't. The m235i is really fun to drive being rwd especially in snow. The TTRS grips really well and although you can make it go sideways its not usually with intent. The TTRS is only 2.5 litre whereas the m235i is a nice 3.0. The m235i is a massive improvement in looks over the 1 series which has become even more fugly. I could be wrong but I don't think the TTRS has fake engine sounds pumped into the cabin where as the m235i does. Both have costly extras, with the beemer you'll have to add indicators to your order as they don't come standard.


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## aquazi (Dec 24, 2014)

qooqiiu said:


> aquazi said:
> 
> 
> > there is no kick in the backside torque surge.. Also there is no arm rest.
> ...


On the Rs If you count that stupid pad on the handbreak which is on the wrong side for RHD drive cars then yeah it has one..... but its non functional.....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## qooqiiu (Oct 12, 2007)

ldhxvs said:


> The m235i is really fun to drive being rwd especially in snow.


Not being able to go up an incline and frequently sliding Into the kerb are not what I'd call fun. :?


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## Stealth69 (Jun 25, 2012)

qooqiiu said:


> ldhxvs said:
> 
> 
> > The m235i is really fun to drive being rwd especially in snow.
> ...


LMFAO!!!! exactly!! BMW's are the worst for snow, the cars become useless which is amazing really given the country of origin


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## BCS Nige (May 11, 2013)

Having had BM's all my life first one back in 84 (323i Alpina) right the way through to today... I always felt that whilst tune-able they felt like they were trying to kill me :? - We have M135i's and 235i's in weekly and they are fun cars to drive especially with the JB4 installed and our full turbo back systems, but once you get over that it just doesn't engage you.
My RS on the other hand is just sublime and what I like to call the best kept secret in the industry...
Out of the box power is more than adequate - or if possible throw a down pipe on and even a tuning box such as the Racechip and it becomes epic all with the sure footedness of 4wd to support you when you run out of talent. But more than that it's just a great place to be - you hunker down into it (forgive me...) like a fighter pilot - the car feels like it's wrapped around you.. (the BM feels like your climbing on top of it) then drop the wheel into your lap, grab that big gear knob which has to be pushed in firmly to engage, like it's trying to warn you beforehand, that this is a serious drivers car and begin, and notice the heads turn as people look and stare at what there brain is telling them is just another of the most popular coupe's out there - that is until they realise that it's not - it looks slightly different, sounds different - oh and the drivers got a great big grin on his face.
Until you get home pull it into the garage and look back not once but twice and remind yourself how lucky you are to own one.


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## qooqiiu (Oct 12, 2007)

This man likes his RS.


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## corradoman (Sep 11, 2010)

BCS Nige said:


> Having had BM's all my life first one back in 84 (323i Alpina) right the way through to today... I always felt that whilst tune-able they felt like they were trying to kill me :? - We have M135i's and 235i's in weekly and they are fun cars to drive especially with the JB4 installed and our full turbo back systems, but once you get over that it just doesn't engage you.
> My RS on the other hand is just sublime and what I like to call the best kept secret in the industry...
> Out of the box power is more than adequate - or if possible throw a down pipe on and even a tuning box such as the Racechip and it becomes epic all with the sure footedness of 4wd to support you when you run out of talent. But more than that it's just a great place to be - you hunker down into it (forgive me...) like a fighter pilot - the car feels like it's wrapped around you.. (the BM feels like your climbing on top of it) then drop the wheel into your lap, grab that big gear knob which has to be pushed in firmly to engage, like it's trying to warn you beforehand, that this is a serious drivers car and begin, and notice the heads turn as people look and stare at what there brain is telling them is just another of the most popular coupe's out there - that is until they realise that it's not - it looks slightly different, sounds different - oh and the drivers got a great big grin on his face.
> Until you get home pull it into the garage and look back not once but twice and remind yourself how lucky you are to own one.


Written with passion [smiley=dude.gif]


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

BCS Nige said:


> Having had BM's all my life first one back in 84 (323i Alpina) right the way through to today... I always felt that whilst tune-able they felt like they were trying to kill me :? - We have M135i's and 235i's in weekly and they are fun cars to drive especially with the JB4 installed and our full turbo back systems, but once you get over that it just doesn't engage you.
> My RS on the other hand is just sublime and what I like to call the best kept secret in the industry...
> Out of the box power is more than adequate - or if possible throw a down pipe on and even a tuning box such as the Racechip and it becomes epic all with the sure footedness of 4wd to support you when you run out of talent. But more than that it's just a great place to be - you hunker down into it (forgive me...) like a fighter pilot - the car feels like it's wrapped around you.. (the BM feels like your climbing on top of it) then drop the wheel into your lap, grab that big gear knob which has to be pushed in firmly to engage, like it's trying to warn you beforehand, that this is a serious drivers car and begin, and notice the heads turn as people look and stare at what there brain is telling them is just another of the most popular coupe's out there - that is until they realise that it's not - it looks slightly different, sounds different - oh and the drivers got a great big grin on his face.
> Until you get home pull it into the garage and look back not once but twice and remind yourself how lucky you are to own one.


You do get a lot of looks in the RS - my mates have said that when they have been out with me. Maybe it's the noise or the sepang


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## TTaRSe (Aug 24, 2014)

I have had my RS for just over 2 years and 35K miles now so to be honest I can't really remember clearly what it was like before modification and the lowest BMW I have driven for any time is the M3, my experience is mostly with Porsche cars.

My car runs on MSS fully adjustable suspension - probably the best £1k (fitted) I have ever spent.
This kit enables me to set the car up to all but eliminate body movement and understeer. Steering is not the last word in feel (compared with a 911) but it is nicely weighted.
The limit of grip on Michelin Supersports is just silly.

I also run RS6 rear brakes and track pads also modified OEM fronts with trackpads and RBF660 fluid so brakes are beyond adequate.

Had to giggle at the comment on not having any torque - the easy stage 1 500lb/ft is quite a lot actually in a 1450kg car.
My car is S-tronic which is ideal for a daily driver but also real fun once you get used to the paddles.

Without being critical of the BM the TTRS has one of the most exciting drivetrains around (See Chris Harris in last TG) if you do a few mods to the brakes and suspension it is *very* quick cross country.
I do a lot of weekend runs with fellow enthusiasts and a well set up RS can stay with the likes of 991 GT3s and Ferrari F430s but you can still do the school run or the dump run in it.

As BCS pointed out above it's probably the most underrated performance car around today.


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## Redhatch (Nov 1, 2016)

TTaRSe said:


> I have had my RS for just over 2 years and 35K miles now so to be honest I can't really remember clearly what it was like before modification and the lowest BMW I have driven for any time is the M3, my experience is mostly with Porsche cars.
> 
> My car runs on MSS fully adjustable suspension - probably the best £1k (fitted) I have ever spent.
> This kit enables me to set the car up to all but eliminate body movement and understeer. Steering is not the last word in feel (compared with a 911) but it is nicely weighted.
> ...


Oh I don't doubt how quick and capable it will be cross country but just because something can keep up with Ferrari 458 doesn't necessarily mean the drives having fun. It's how the car makes you feel that's important to me. I love the power train but then I also love the power train in the BMW. It's whether or not I can get the chassis to feel as nimble and playful as the beemers does. I looked for Chris Harris reviews on the MK2TTRS and all I can find are his twitter spoutings which suggest he HATES it! Quotes such as 'everything you hate about a car company rolled into one package' 'sure, its fast in the rain but then so is a Swan, only the Swan understeers less' etc etc

I must admit I am still tempted to take a punt on it. I know there's lots to like, I'm just scared I'm going to be frustrated with the nose heaviness and regret the change.


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## TTaRSe (Aug 24, 2014)

Redhatch said:


> TTaRSe said:
> 
> 
> > I have had my RS for just over 2 years and 35K miles now so to be honest I can't really remember clearly what it was like before modification and the lowest BMW I have driven for any time is the M3, my experience is mostly with Porsche cars.
> ...


If by playful you mean easily induced oversteer and a loose rear end you are unlikely to be able to achieve that.
If you want to achieve neutral balance then that is possible with some suspension tuning.
Out of the box the car is a bit dissapointing in terms of handling but that is easily improved, the potential in the car is huge but a TTRS will never be a drift car.


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## Stealth69 (Jun 25, 2012)

Just go and buy a MK3 Focus RS..... problem solved  AWD for safety, rapid around a track, Drift button for shits and giggles and cheap for a new car.


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## BCS Nige (May 11, 2013)

Redhatch - what's the spec on your 235i
Cheers
nige


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## TTaRSe (Aug 24, 2014)

Stealth69 said:


> Just go and buy a MK3 Focus RS..... problem solved  AWD for safety, rapid around a track, Drift button for shits and giggles and cheap for a new car.


Could be a good shout there, or if its feel and handling above all else nothing beats a 2.7 litre Cayman.


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## Stealth69 (Jun 25, 2012)

TTaRSe said:


> Stealth69 said:
> 
> 
> > Just go and buy a MK3 Focus RS..... problem solved  AWD for safety, rapid around a track, Drift button for shits and giggles and cheap for a new car.
> ...


if it's feeling and handling above all else get an Exige


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## ldhxvs (Aug 18, 2016)

qooqiiu said:


> ldhxvs said:
> 
> 
> > The m235i is really fun to drive being rwd especially in snow.
> ...





Stealth69 said:


> LMFAO!!!! exactly!! BMW's are the worst for snow, the cars become useless which is amazing really given the country of origin


They are not that bad, if you got winter tyres and know how to drive a rwd car in snow. Yes they are a challenge compared to fwd, but they are fun


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## ldhxvs (Aug 18, 2016)

Stealth69 said:


> Just go and buy a MK3 Focus RS..... problem solved  AWD for safety, rapid around a track, Drift button for shits and giggles and cheap for a new car.


Very nice car, and fun too. Pretty cheap on parts and fixing them. Shame about the boy racer reputation.


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## drjam (Apr 7, 2006)

Stealth69 said:


> LMFAO!!!! exactly!! BMW's are the worst for snow, the cars become useless which is amazing really given the country of origin


The country of origin enforces winter tyre usage though (which makes much more of a difference than how many or which wheels are attached to the engine).


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## Stealth69 (Jun 25, 2012)

Good point well made, which means changing the tyres every year to make the car useful.

Sorry just not a Beemer fan..... have tried so many times to like them but meh!

The RS focus does have a boy racer stigma attached to it, awesome motor tho and it could be worse, could have the Subaru chav boy stigma lol


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## Redhatch (Nov 1, 2016)

BCS Nige said:


> Redhatch - what's the spec on your 235i
> Cheers
> nige


64 plate mineral grey, black leather, auto, comfort pack, sun pack, vis pack, business navigation, heated seats, adaptive suspension, reverse camera, Mperformance front splitter, black grills and boot spoiler


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## Redhatch (Nov 1, 2016)

Stealth69 said:


> Just go and buy a MK3 Focus RS..... problem solved  AWD for safety, rapid around a track, Drift button for shits and giggles and cheap for a new car.


Funnily enough this was the other car I was considering. Trying to get a decent test drive though is near impossible. I fear the engine maybe a let down. I know I know, I want everything'


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## k9l3 (Jan 5, 2014)

Bmw will always be more drivers car audi looks the part and is more special i think modern bmw have lost it i only like the 4 coupe apart from the back i actually really like the cla amg . 4wd will feel more special then a 2 series surely


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## leopard (May 1, 2015)

The best driver's car BMW make at the moment is the M2,the handling is sublime the only thing that isn't as good as the RS is the cockpit which @ BCS Nige rightly pointed out is superb and possibly the build quality.

The things that do let any mk2 tt down imo is the Sat nav,the heated seats which are under powered,handling feel and the boredom factor...Also it seems like Audi dealers are just getting worse for customer service although that might be academic now the latest cars are approaching 3yrs old.

If I was the OP, I'd take a look at the M140i which has the same 
handling characteristics as the m240i,unlike the older *35i series which were different between the one and two series,cheaper too....


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## Redhatch (Nov 1, 2016)

leopard said:


> The best driver's car BMW make at the moment is the M2,the handling is sublime the only thing that isn't as good as the RS is the cockpit which @ BCS Nige rightly pointed out is superb and possibly the build quality.
> 
> The things that do let any mk2 tt down imo is the Sat nav,the heated seats which are under powered,handling feel and the boredom factor...Also it seems like Audi dealers are just getting worse for customer service although that might be academic now the latest cars are approaching 3yrs old.
> 
> ...


I'd have an M2 in a heart beat. The only problem being I really want a manual gearbox in my next car and the pedals in Bmws are off set massively to the right which gives an old man like me back ache


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