# Knocking Sound - Steering Rack?



## JB89

Morning all,

One month into TT ownership and already starting to have some unfortunate issues [smiley=bigcry.gif]

Perhaps the most annoying, I have a grinding / knocking sound coming from what sounds like the front of the car, mostly when reversing or turning sharp.

I took it to a local inde and had the following work carried out;

"Supply and fit new nearside front and offside front upper suspension mounts and bearings.
Supply and fit new offside front anti-roll bar link (original anti roll bar link upper ball joint protective rubber gaiter split)"

Unfortunately the knocking noise is still there, the garage has suggested that the next thing to try / eliminate is the steering rack - but they cannot guarantee this is the fault and the work is non-refundable (as was the above work) if it doesn't rectify it.

He said the costs are four figures+ so it's certainly not something I want to get done if there isn't a guarantee that it will fix it.

Is there any way I can be sure it's the rack, or can anyone else offer advice on what else it could be?

My DIY skills are lacking to say the least so my option is only a garage rather than attempting repairs myself!

Also getting intermittent warnings lights on the dash :roll: Ordered a diagnostic tool which will hopefully arrive tomorrow and another thread will be posted !


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## BillTheButcher

Not what you want from a new car. [smiley=bigcry.gif]

I picked up an 8J TTRS last weekend and there's a slight knocking sound at parking speeds. I found these clips when I was searching yesterday. Does yours sound anything like this?


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## JB89

Certainly not what I needed !

Yes mate, I'd say it's near identical to that. However, if I just sit in the car stationery and turn the wheel as they are I get very little sound, I only really get the problem if I'm moving at slower speeds too.


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## BillTheButcher

JB89 said:


> Certainly not what I needed !
> 
> Yes mate, I'd say it's near identical to that. However, if I just sit in the car stationery and turn the wheel as they are I get very little sound, I only really get the problem if I'm moving at slower speeds too.


Hmmm.

When I first heard (and panic-Googled) it I thought it was suspension bushes but my car doesn't seem old enough or have enough miles on it to have worn bushes. Then I found those clips which are exactly what I can hear.

I won't be out in mine again until the weekend. I'll see if it does it when stationary as well as at low speeds.


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## JB89

Cheers mate, let us know what you find!

For now I'll just turn the stereo up.. :lol:


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## AndreiV93

BillTheButcher said:


> Not what you want from a new car. [smiley=bigcry.gif]
> 
> I picked up an 8J TTRS last weekend and there's a slight knocking sound at parking speeds. I found these clips when I was searching yesterday. Does yours sound anything like this?


That first video is mine; 
Still haven't had a chance to get it properly looked at yet, but just had a full service and MOT at Audi last week and they haven't picked it up. Top mounts and bearings will be the first to look at; like JB89's mechanic said, it's better to do the cheaper fixes first before going for the super expensive rack fix and doesn't fix the problem.


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## AndreiV93

JB89 said:


> Cheers mate, let us know what you find!
> 
> For now I'll just turn the stereo up.. :lol:


the noise does tend to go away and come back :lol: thinking about it, I haven't heard it in quite a while, and I drive my TT daily.


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## mickee92

BillTheButcher said:


> Not what you want from a new car. [smiley=bigcry.gif]
> 
> I picked up an 8J TTRS last weekend and there's a slight knocking sound at parking speeds. I found these clips when I was searching yesterday. Does yours sound anything like this?


I have the exact same problem.

Before I recently had my 30mm lowering springs fitted I only noticed it slightly and when reversing at low speeds and turning.

Now I've had the springs fitted its much louder and when stopped like in the videos and do lock to lock slowly it makes the exact sound. Was thinking steering rack myself but ill be taking it in this Saturday for a better Idea.


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## BillTheButcher

Please keep us updated.  I'll report back when I drive it again at the weekend.


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## AndreiV93

mickee92 said:


> I have the exact same problem.
> 
> Before I recently had my 30mm lowering springs fitted I only noticed it slightly and when reversing at low speeds and turning.
> 
> Now I've had the springs fitted its much louder and when stopped like in the videos and do lock to lock slowly it makes the exact sound. Was thinking steering rack myself but ill be taking it in this Saturday for a better Idea.


The fact that it is louder once the lowering springs have been fitted really points towards the top mounts and bearings I think. But am no expert! Let us know what you find out!


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## mickee92

AndreiV93 said:


> mickee92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have the exact same problem.
> 
> Before I recently had my 30mm lowering springs fitted I only noticed it slightly and when reversing at low speeds and turning.
> 
> Now I've had the springs fitted its much louder and when stopped like in the videos and do lock to lock slowly it makes the exact sound. Was thinking steering rack myself but ill be taking it in this Saturday for a better Idea.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that it is louder once the lowering springs have been fitted really points towards the top mounts and bearings I think. But am no expert! Let us know what you find out!
Click to expand...

I had the mounts and bearings replaced whilst putting the springs on and I would expect them to creak more than anything?


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## JB89

Hmm yeah had my mounts and bearings replaced too.

Admittedly, at first it seemed slightly quieter once they'd been replaced, but back to it's usual level of sound now!

Just hoping it's not the rack!


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## Barr_end

I'd advice anyone with a knock/grind at the front checking your subframe for signs first!!

Well known fault on VAG platform, stretch bolts in the frame stretch overtime allowing the frame/wishbone rear housing to shift and move around. Bloke at work had horrid noises from his 8P S3.

Quick and cheaper would be trying brand new bolts for frame & rack.

I fitted a tyrol subframe locking kit on my TTS and this has stiffened the front end with other suspension additions, however fast forward 9 months, due to not buying new rack bolts and when fitting, we ended up dropping the entire frame not just loosing, to do the rear dog bone bush.
I had a creak becoming louder and louder from just on sharpest lock at very low speeds, that the ended up at any steering input under 20mph and on big bumps like rolling up a drop curb.

Dropped the frame just this month when fitted uprated clutch so took this opportunity to fit all new bolts throughout.
Noise is gone completely.

I'd highly recommend for £50 worth of bolts you can easily replace yourself before even thinking about £1000+ rack replacement.


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## grantlack

Barr_end said:


> I'd advice anyone with a knock/grind at the front checking your subframe for signs first!!


was coming to post the same. the subframe collar kits are a frequently-applied fix. definitely worth a new set of bolts while you're already down there.


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## CrimsonTT

I had the knocking sound when I first bought my TT, it would happen over bumps, whilst driving and moving steering wheel. Later found that the top mount on my near side was duff. Got it replaced and no more knocking sound.


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## mickee92

Well I had my car in and on the lift and nothing obvious. Not the steering rack than god!!

Checked all bolts to see if any where loose but all seem ok.

Now I have had new top mounts and bearings on when the springs were put on so maybe they could be making a creaking noise? More prominent when stationary and going lock to lock and slightly when manoeuvring even when not turning the wheel and going up kerbs.

These subframe collar kits might be the next addition as there's nothing else that is visibly wrong. Is there a part number for them or where to get?


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## grantlack

mickee92 said:


> These subframe collar kits might be the next addition as there's nothing else that is visibly wrong. Is there a part number for them or where to get?


TyrolSport sells them machined from brass, and 034 motorsports sells them in stainless. The brass may be a better choice than stainless steel in regards to metallic interaction with the aluminium subframe. Galvanic corrosion is no good.


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## AndreiV93

mickee92 said:


> Well I had my car in and on the lift and nothing obvious. Not the steering rack than god!!
> 
> Checked all bolts to see if any where loose but all seem ok.
> 
> Now I have had new top mounts and bearings on when the springs were put on so maybe they could be making a creaking noise? More prominent when stationary and going lock to lock and slightly when manoeuvring even when not turning the wheel and going up kerbs.
> 
> These subframe collar kits might be the next addition as there's nothing else that is visibly wrong. Is there a part number for them or where to get?


Glad to hear it's not the rack! I think that would be the first thing Audi would replace :lol:


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## JB89

Agreed! Good news it's not the rack.

Possibly a stupid question, what diagnostics do you do to confirm it's not the rack? More intrigued as to why the local inde I used couldn't confirm for sure whether it is the rack or not!

If someone tries the subframe fix before I get round to doing it please let us know how it goes!


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## BillTheButcher

BillTheButcher said:


> I'll report back when I drive it again at the weekend.


Mine does it at low speeds as well as when stationary. It's booked in to be looked at this weekend.


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## mickee92

Not sure what the diagnosis was to rule out steering rack but the car doesn't:

Drift in any direction
No loose feeling in the steering
Steering doesn't pull
No vibration in steering

Some common signs I suppose ^^ which could make sense if there is a knock when turning.

The indie who does the work is genuine and unlike some who would see ££££ and not rule out the rack.
The knock obviously got worse with the car lowered some obviously more load = bigger knock. Also the knock is also apparent when im going up a slight curb. 
Ideally would be nice to have someone with the same fault (which there seems to be a few of) have theres solved as its not nice spending money to narrow down to eventually fixing the cause.


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## Barr_end

mickee92 said:


> Well I had my car in and on the lift and nothing obvious. Not the steering rack than god!!
> 
> Checked all bolts to see if any where loose but all seem ok.
> 
> Now I have had new top mounts and bearings on when the springs were put on so maybe they could be making a creaking noise? More prominent when stationary and going lock to lock and slightly when manoeuvring even when not turning the wheel and going up kerbs.
> 
> These subframe collar kits might be the next addition as there's nothing else that is visibly wrong. Is there a part number for them or where to get?


Bolts won't appear to be loose, but they are a 1 use only stretch bolt to a torque plus 90 degrees.
As I wrote before, highly recommend changing these! They stretch over time and will allow the frame to move.
Should be x6 main frame bolts (m12? with 18mm heads), 4 in the rack, 4 in the wishbone bush (m10? with 16mm heads) and if you wanted x4 (m8, 13mm head) antiroll bar bush brackets. All of those (minus the ARB bolts) cost me sub £50 from TPS trade account, if you're worried about spending money that may not fix the issue but I can't see it being much else with what you've replaced.
If you reread my previous post mine was exactly the same, even with the kit but when I hadn't replaced everyone of the bolts mentioned above. More noticeable at low speeds and drop curbs.
If you wanted a subframe locking kit, I personally went Tyrol as the above mentioned issues and seen how well designed they were first hand. I ordered direct from them: http://www.tyrolsport.com/suspension/ch ... 2-audi-tt/


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## mickee92

Barr_end said:


> Bolts won't appear to be loose, but they are a 1 use only stretch bolt to a torque plus 90 degrees.
> As I wrote before, highly recommend changing these! They stretch over time and will allow the frame to move.
> Should be x6 main frame bolts (m12? with 18mm heads), 4 in the rack, 4 in the wishbone bush (m10? with 16mm heads) and if you wanted x4 (m8, 13mm head) antiroll bar bush brackets. All of those (minus the ARB bolts) cost me sub £50 from TPS trade account, if you're worried about spending money that may not fix the issue but I can't see it being much else with what you've replaced.
> If you reread my previous post mine was exactly the same, even with the kit but when I hadn't replaced everyone of the bolts mentioned above. More noticeable at low speeds and drop curbs.
> If you wanted a subframe locking kit, I personally went Tyrol as the above mentioned issues and seen how well designed they were first hand. I ordered direct from them: http://www.tyrolsport.com/suspension/ch ... 2-audi-tt/


Sorry I just looked straight at the link for the kit and saw £170+ for it and was reluctant to get that straight away. £50ish for the bolts etc will be worth it then as I've had the front subframe off 3-5times recently for work on the centre prop, manifolds and other stuff. Cheers.


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## Vanu

my steering wheel is having some knock to it, only when it's cold. The steering wheel is traveling like, in steps or something, can't describe it, but it feels as it's not smooth at all, . The motion itself is like turning the rack-wheel of a catapult, in clicks, it pushes back:










I think it might be the steering rack motor as I already changed the cable loom. Could it be something in the drivetrain itself? Or the steering column? After about 15 minutes of driving it goes away. A video of the problem:


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## Roller Skate

grantlack said:


> mickee92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These subframe collar kits might be the next addition as there's nothing else that is visibly wrong. Is there a part number for them or where to get?
> 
> 
> 
> TyrolSport sells them machined from brass, and 034 motorsports sells them in stainless. The brass may be a better choice than stainless steel in regards to metallic interaction with the aluminium subframe. Galvanic corrosion is no good.
Click to expand...

Correct.

The problem with steering knocks is there's a lot of moving parts in the steering chain. I'd be looking at bush wear first.


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## BillTheButcher

Roller Skate said:


> grantlack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mickee92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These subframe collar kits might be the next addition as there's nothing else that is visibly wrong. Is there a part number for them or where to get?
> 
> 
> 
> TyrolSport sells them machined from brass, and 034 motorsports sells them in stainless. The brass may be a better choice than stainless steel in regards to metallic interaction with the aluminium subframe. Galvanic corrosion is no good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Correct.
> 
> The problem with steering knocks is there's a lot of moving parts in the steering chain. *I'd be looking at bush wear first*.
Click to expand...

I believe this is where the investigation will start with mine. There was a note in the service report from January this year that said the rear ARB bushes were slightly split but it wasn't serious enough to warrant an advisory note on the MOT done in July. If this is the case the dealer has agreed to foot the bill since worn bushes are classed as wear and tear and as such won't be covered by the warranty.


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## Barr_end

mickee92 said:


> Sorry I just looked straight at the link for the kit and saw £170+ for it and was reluctant to get that straight away. £50ish for the bolts etc will be worth it then as I've had the front subframe off 3-5times recently for work on the centre prop, manifolds and other stuff. Cheers.


Bloody hell no wonder you have noise if those bolts have been reused that many times! Lucky none have sheared heads off with that amount of use haha :lol: 
What torques have you been redoing them to?
Most definitely get yourself some fresh ones if you know the frame now isn't going to come off for a while and I bet the noise will be silenced.


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## BillTheButcher

BillTheButcher said:


> BillTheButcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll report back when I drive it again at the weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> Mine does it at low speeds as well as when stationary. It's booked in to be looked at this weekend.
Click to expand...

I picked my car up from the garage this morning. They could hear the noise that I mentioned but they couldn't find anything that needed replacing or fixing. It's definitely not the steering rack. Their best guess is that it's slightly worn ARB bushes but not worn enough to justify replacing them. Their advice is to keep an eye (and ear) on it and go back to them if it gets any worse.

I'm glad that there's nothing seriously wrong but it's also frustrating that there's nothing that can be fixed.


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## andys_tts

Thanks for the update. Mine does this when reversing. Drives fine otherwise.


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## Barr_end

BillTheButcher said:


> BillTheButcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BillTheButcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll report back when I drive it again at the weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> Mine does it at low speeds as well as when stationary. It's booked in to be looked at this weekend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I picked my car up from the garage this morning. They could hear the noise that I mentioned but they couldn't find anything that needed replacing or fixing. It's definitely not the steering rack. Their best guess is that it's slightly worn ARB bushes but not worn enough to justify replacing them. Their advice is to keep an eye (and ear) on it and go back to them if it gets any worse.
> 
> I'm glad that there's nothing seriously wrong but it's also frustrating that there's nothing that can be fixed.
Click to expand...




andys_tts said:


> Thanks for the update. Mine does this when reversing. Drives fine otherwise.


Last time I'm going to try typing it :lol: 
*Subframe bolts!*
It's well known and documented about the stretch of these bolts across the vag cars, allowing the subframe to move (sometimes fractionally - sometimes a lot) causing creaking that can stay as that or worsen to knocking.
For the sake of undoing and torqueing 6 or 10 or 14 bolts (subframe + rack + ARB) at around £50 its massively worth trying at the very least.
But as I have wrote in this thread, I have had the exact same issue and it has been solved.


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## BillTheButcher

I'm glad yours was sorted but, as I said, they didn't find anything wrong on mine. They checked the rack and the ARB with the car on the ramp. If the subframe bolt issue is well-known and documented then they will have known about it.


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## Barr_end

BillTheButcher said:


> I'm glad yours was sorted but, as I said, they didn't find anything wrong on mine. They checked the rack and the ARB with the car on the ramp. If the subframe bolt issue is well-known and documented then they will have known about it.


Only so many times you can bang your head against a brick wall :lol: 
Believing that any mechanic knows everything to do with any car seems madness to me. 
Even specialist garages won't know everything, even if they are massively knowledgeable firm, which your personal mechanic/garage probably is, the will still be a fault they've never seen or had to research.

You can't find a fault with a stretched stretch bolt, It won't have any appearance or be "untorqued" (which what is the torque figure, when its spec'd XXX ft-lbs + 90 degree turn..) Unless you're bothering to take it out and check the TPI count and/or shank length, very very accurately. If they had of done that (which obviously you wouldn't with the cost of the bolts or without the knowledge about the issue) they would definitely know that they'd need to replace the one use only stretch bolt.

You seem desperate for a fix with your previous reply, which I'm not surprised with as its massive irritating, yet aren't willing to take any advice, when its been proven to work.

This is only using VW, not audi, vag, etc... Plenty of information amongst loads of threads:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=vw+su ... fW8gegy6BI

https://www.google.co.uk/search?rls=com ... Hbo2O67-90

Please just use some of the links on the 1st pages of that search, you'll see what I'm talking a.bout, maybe you won't make a comment, questioning other peoples knowledge who might actually know something..
There's shit loads more, as blokes S3 at work before I even had purchased TT was exactly the same. Well his creak turned into clunking. But he's anal, he researched it so much, with a little of my help. There's so much information on this issue.

2 positive results, on 2 cars with that issue. But continue listening to the noise if that's what you'd prefer than trying a £50 and 30 minutes of your own time solution, with a ratchet and torque wrench.


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## calletso

Does anyone have a part number list for the sub frame bolts that require changing? I have this noise and after changing the drop links / top mounts and the car not having any advisories on the MOT last week - It must be this that is the cause.

Is it a simple driveway job with the car on axel stands and a breaker bar and torque wrench?

Thanks


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## BillTheButcher

Barr_end said:


> BillTheButcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad yours was sorted but, as I said, they didn't find anything wrong on mine. They checked the rack and the ARB with the car on the ramp. If the subframe bolt issue is well-known and documented then they will have known about it.
> 
> 
> 
> Only so many times you can bang your head against a brick wall :lol:
> Believing that any mechanic knows everything to do with any car seems madness to me.
> Even specialist garages won't know everything, even if they are massively knowledgeable firm, which your personal mechanic/garage probably is, the will still be a fault they've never seen or had to research.
Click to expand...

Where did I say that I believe any mechanic knows everything to do with any car? The garage that I took it to is a VAG specialist; the owner's daily driver is an 8J TTRS. I believe that he would know about this issue (and if it's what's wrong with my car) since, as you've demonstrated, it's well-known and well-documented. It's not my personal garage. I've never been there before. It's local to where I bought the car.



Barr_end said:


> You seem desperate for a fix with your previous reply, which I'm not surprised with as its massive irritating, yet aren't willing to take any advice, when its been proven to work.


Obviously I'd like to get it sorted but I'm not desperate: it's a mildly-irritating sound. Why do you think I'm unwilling to take advice? I'm more than willing to listen to what anyone has to say about this issue.



Barr_end said:


> This is only using VW, not audi, vag, etc... Plenty of information amongst loads of threads:
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=vw+su ... fW8gegy6BI
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/search?rls=com ... Hbo2O67-90
> 
> Please just use some of the links on the 1st pages of that search, you'll see what I'm talking a.bout, maybe you won't make a comment, questioning other peoples knowledge who might actually know something..


Why the attitude? I'm not questioning your or anyone else's knowledge about this. I'm just saying that maybe what you're suggesting isn't what's wrong with my car. It doesn't really sound like any of the clips on those pages.



Barr_end said:


> There's shit loads more, as blokes S3 at work before I even had purchased TT was exactly the same. Well his creak turned into clunking. But he's anal, he researched it so much, with a little of my help. There's so much information on this issue.
> 
> 2 positive results, on 2 cars with that issue. But continue listening to the noise if that's what you'd prefer than trying a £50 and 30 minutes of your own time solution, with a ratchet and torque wrench.


Again, why the attitude?


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## mickee92

BillTheButcher said:


> I'm glad yours was sorted but, as I said, they didn't find anything wrong on mine. They checked the rack and the ARB with the car on the ramp. If the subframe bolt issue is well-known and documented then they will have known about it.


I will be doing what barr_end has suggested as to be fair I've had my subframe off and on quite a bit this year with exhaust/manifolds & centre prop faults so could well explain the knock for me.

Now the videos you shared are the exact same sound I'm hearin when doing the same stationary turning. I've had it looked at and checked over with and nothing to be too obvious.

For the £50 or so to replace the subframe bolts etc then Its no biggy and I will be getting my transmission mount replaced which will need the frame dropped again so I will replace the bolts.

If nobody else sorts this out before me then I will pop back in January when the work has been done.

Hopefully Barr_end is right so he can get a very reluctant thank you :lol: :wink:


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## BillTheButcher

mickee92 said:


> Hopefully Barr_end is right so he can get a very reluctant thank you :lol: :wink:


:lol:

It won't be a reluctant thank you at all. I appreciate his and everyone else's advice.


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## calletso

Is anyone able to confirm this is the correct part number for the sub frame bolts and I just need 2 of them?

N-908-235-01

Thanks

ETA: Where can I get these from as nearest Audi dealer is 55 miles from me?


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## Barr_end

BillTheButcher said:


> Where did I say that I believe any mechanic knows everything to do with any car? The garage that I took it to is a VAG specialist; the owner's daily driver is an 8J TTRS. I believe that he would know about this issue (and if it's what's wrong with my car) since, as you've demonstrated, it's well-known and well-documented. It's not my personal garage. I've never been there before. It's local to where I bought the car.
> 
> Obviously I'd like to get it sorted but I'm not desperate: it's a mildly-irritating sound. Why do you think I'm unwilling to take advice? I'm more than willing to listen to what anyone has to say about this issue.
> 
> Why the attitude? I'm not questioning your or anyone else's knowledge about this. I'm just saying that maybe what you're suggesting isn't what's wrong with my car. It doesn't really sound like any of the clips on those pages.
> 
> Again, why the attitude?


With how you wrote the reply, I believed you was questioning my knowledge as you were acting as if it wasn't documented or known, and clearly I've dealt with the issue not once, but twice. And with the amount of times of typing and seemingly no-one wanting to listen and try, I assumed people would much rather just live with it.

I have Dyslexia so I can read things wrong, so if you weren't questioning or having the attitude I interrupted it to my replies, then I apologise, if you found my reply conflicting or insulting.
The sound clips linked in this thread I find are poor, I can barely hear them on the laptop and sound odd on my phone.
Personally I'd ignore those as an aid in finding your car.

The 2 main causes of any front end creaking/clunking will be topmounts or subframe, IF it is not the rack as those are the main 3 known 'weak' points on this year of vag cars. I'd start with the cheaper options - bolts then mounts purely down to cost and likeliness of what's causing the issue.

Hence my insistency that one of you guys with the issue would take the chance on the subframe bolts as I think you'd be pleasantly surprised that it will probably fix the irritating noise.


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## Barr_end

calletso said:


> Is anyone able to confirm this is the correct part number for the sub frame bolts and I just need 2 of them?
> 
> N-908-235-01
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ETA: Where can I get these from as nearest Audi dealer is 55 miles from me?


I missed this, I'll see if I can ring TPS up and get a copy of my invoice to confirm numbers:
They'll be x2 bolts for the rear of the frame which are different, then x4 bolts for the rest.
x8 bolts for the rack and rear wishbone houses.
TPS would be a good place to get them if there is one any closer.


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## calletso

That would be great; if I know the part numbers I can get them ordered and fitted this weekend. Think I would have to get them delivered to me however!

Thanks


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## BillTheButcher

Barr_end said:


> BillTheButcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where did I say that I believe any mechanic knows everything to do with any car? The garage that I took it to is a VAG specialist; the owner's daily driver is an 8J TTRS. I believe that he would know about this issue (and if it's what's wrong with my car) since, as you've demonstrated, it's well-known and well-documented. It's not my personal garage. I've never been there before. It's local to where I bought the car.
> 
> Obviously I'd like to get it sorted but I'm not desperate: it's a mildly-irritating sound. Why do you think I'm unwilling to take advice? I'm more than willing to listen to what anyone has to say about this issue.
> 
> Why the attitude? I'm not questioning your or anyone else's knowledge about this. I'm just saying that maybe what you're suggesting isn't what's wrong with my car. It doesn't really sound like any of the clips on those pages.
> 
> Again, why the attitude?
> 
> 
> 
> With how you wrote the reply, I believed you was questioning my knowledge as you were acting as if it wasn't documented or known, and clearly I've dealt with the issue not once, but twice. And with the amount of times of typing and seemingly no-one wanting to listen and try, I assumed people would much rather just live with it.
> 
> I have Dyslexia so I can read things wrong, so if you weren't questioning or having the attitude I interrupted it to my replies, then I apologise, if you found my reply conflicting or insulting.
> The sound clips linked in this thread I find are poor, I can barely hear them on the laptop and sound odd on my phone.
> Personally I'd ignore those as an aid in finding your car.
> 
> The 2 main causes of any front end creaking/clunking will be topmounts or subframe, IF it is not the rack as those are the main 3 known 'weak' points on this year of vag cars. I'd start with the cheaper options - bolts then mounts purely down to cost and likeliness of what's causing the issue.
> 
> Hence my insistency that one of you guys with the issue would take the chance on the subframe bolts as I think you'd be pleasantly surprised that it will probably fix the irritating noise.
Click to expand...

[smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## Menzo

Hi everyone, I also have this knocking problem when I turn the steering wheel at stop. I changed the steering rack and the knocking is still there so I'm also interested by the bolt reference. Thanks


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## Barr_end

calletso said:


> That would be great; if I know the part numbers I can get them ordered and fitted this weekend. Think I would have to get them delivered to me however!
> 
> Thanks


TPS were very unhelpful this time around, they still have my receipt and haven't processed my refund over the 3 weeks they have had them!
Also were not willing to send me a photocopy or pfd in an email of that either! :evil: 
I'll give it a google and see what I can try and find for you.


----------



## tttony

This is a good on-line resource for Audi part numbers.

http://www.oemepc.com/audi


----------



## Menzo

Barr_end said:


> calletso said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is anyone able to confirm this is the correct part number for the sub frame bolts and I just need 2 of them?
> 
> N-908-235-01
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ETA: Where can I get these from as nearest Audi dealer is 55 miles from me?
> 
> 
> 
> I missed this, I'll see if I can ring TPS up and get a copy of my invoice to confirm numbers:
> They'll be x2 bolts for the rear of the frame which are different, then x4 bolts for the rest.
> x8 bolts for the rack and rear wishbone houses.
> TPS would be a good place to get them if there is one any closer.
Click to expand...

Hi Barr_end, Can you tell me if the bolts to change are these ? Thank you.


----------



## Barr_end

Menzo said:


> Barr_end said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> calletso said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is anyone able to confirm this is the correct part number for the sub frame bolts and I just need 2 of them?
> 
> N-908-235-01
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ETA: Where can I get these from as nearest Audi dealer is 55 miles from me?
> 
> 
> 
> I missed this, I'll see if I can ring TPS up and get a copy of my invoice to confirm numbers:
> They'll be x2 bolts for the rear of the frame which are different, then x4 bolts for the rest.
> x8 bolts for the rack and rear wishbone houses.
> TPS would be a good place to get them if there is one any closer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hi Barr_end, Can you tell me if the bolts to change are these ? Thank you.
Click to expand...

1-2-8 are the main frame bolts on the TT, those are the ones main main frame bolts, however inbetween 2-8 which are also important! Same size as 3-4 the rack bolts. So you want x8 of the bolt spec'd for 3 or 4 as they are the same. 1-2-8 I think are all different lengths so you need those, and whilst there you may aswell do the 'sway bar' ones.
Mine did not have position 7, so unsure what car that picture is from.
I'll try and get a picture of mine in some daylight


----------



## Menzo

Barr_end said:


> Menzo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Barr_end, Can you tell me if the bolts to change are these ? Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1-2-8 are the main frame bolts on the TT, those are the ones main main frame bolts, however inbetween 2-8 which are also important! Same size as 3-4 the rack bolts. So you want x8 of the bolt spec'd for 3 or 4 as they are the same. 1-2-8 I think are all different lengths so you need those, and whilst there you may aswell do the 'sway bar' ones.
> Mine did not have position 7, so unsure what car that picture is from.
> I'll try and get a picture of mine in some daylight
Click to expand...

This one is a TT subframe.
How many bolts have you changed on your ?


----------



## Barr_end

Menzo said:


> This one is a TT subframe.
> How many bolts have you changed on your ?


That's a lot closer to it yes. I've copied the image and highlighted all the bolts I replaced, each circle means a single bolt. Also the colour code is the bolts I believe are the same. Highlighted ones that appear they aren't there, those are on the wishbone bush cradle.
So...
-* Yellow* is x8 bolts - Which are all 16mm heads and same length, for both the steering rack and additionally the smaller bolts for the rear wishbone cradle.
- *Green* is x4 ARB block bolts - 13mm heads, short m8 bolts. 
- *Blue* x4 main subframe bolts - These are 18mm heads that are fully threaded stretch bolts. Believe these maybe the same lengths as I think I had x4 of one part number on the invoice (which I should be getting back soon)
-*Red* is x2 main subframe bolts - that look like stretch bolts, have a small amount of shank, then shank length chances diameter multiple times before reaching the thread on the end.









Funnily enough after a long drive and back to the new forest misses car is making an awful clunk/knock and slight creaking. I will get a video and upload it for you all to see if this sounds like your issue. (mine was only creaking, most likely due to locking kit not allowing the frame to move/knock)
I'll be getting my bolts/invoice back from TPS and sorting hers, so I will update how I get on.


----------



## calletso

Got around to changing the main subframe bolts last weekend. (Red ones in the diagram) I also installed spacer shims between the subframe and body (a vw TSB fix for this problem on other shared platform vehicles).

Unfortunately this has made no difference, still get the same noises from the steering and a clunking when coming of the drive in the morning... Checked other sub frame bolts were tight.

So far I have changed the drop links, both strut top mounts and bearings and now the sub frame bolts. Nothing was picked up on MOT testing as it went through with no adviseries, no play in the steering/ ball joints / bushes.

Running out of ideas!


----------



## BillTheButcher

Thanks for the update. Mine has been a lot quieter the last couple of times I've used it. :?:


----------



## Barr_end

calletso said:


> Got around to changing the main subframe bolts last weekend. (Red ones in the diagram) I also installed spacer shims between the subframe and body (a vw TSB fix for this problem on other shared platform vehicles).
> 
> Unfortunately this has made no difference, still get the same noises from the steering and a clunking when coming of the drive in the morning... Checked other sub frame bolts were tight.
> 
> So far I have changed the drop links, both strut top mounts and bearings and now the sub frame bolts. Nothing was picked up on MOT testing as it went through with no adviseries, no play in the steering/ ball joints / bushes.
> 
> Running out of ideas!


Would definitely recommend trying the ones highlighted in yellow and blue! Well to be honest ALL of the bolts related to the frame. (those red are by far the most expensive too! £8ish each! Rest a couple of quid if memory serves me)

The yellow ones, were the ones I did not replace when I fitted the subframe locking kit to my car and 9 months down the line I had the noise come up. I replaced x2 of the blue bolts again (x2 blue, x2 red have stainless replacements in the kit which don't stretch), but this time I replaced the yellow and green too.
Noise is completely silenced.


----------



## Menzo

Barr_end said:


> Menzo said:
> 
> 
> 
> This one is a TT subframe.
> How many bolts have you changed on your ?
> 
> 
> 
> That's a lot closer to it yes. I've copied the image and highlighted all the bolts I replaced, each circle means a single bolt. Also the colour code is the bolts I believe are the same. Highlighted ones that appear they aren't there, those are on the wishbone bush cradle.
> So...
> -* Yellow* is x8 bolts - Which are all 16mm heads and same length, for both the steering rack and additionally the smaller bolts for the rear wishbone cradle.
> - *Green* is x4 ARB block bolts - 13mm heads, short m8 bolts.
> - *Blue* x4 main subframe bolts - These are 18mm heads that are fully threaded stretch bolts. Believe these maybe the same lengths as I think I had x4 of one part number on the invoice (which I should be getting back soon)
> -*Red* is x2 main subframe bolts - that look like stretch bolts, have a small amount of shank, then shank length chances diameter multiple times before reaching the thread on the end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funnily enough after a long drive and back to the new forest misses car is making an awful clunk/knock and slight creaking. I will get a video and upload it for you all to see if this sounds like your issue. (mine was only creaking, most likely due to locking kit not allowing the frame to move/knock)
> I'll be getting my bolts/invoice back from TPS and sorting hers, so I will update how I get on.
Click to expand...

Where do you buy all the bolts ? Thanks.


----------



## Menzo

calletso said:


> Got around to changing the main subframe bolts last weekend. (Red ones in the diagram) I also installed spacer shims between the subframe and body (a vw TSB fix for this problem on other shared platform vehicles).
> 
> Unfortunately this has made no difference, still get the same noises from the steering and a clunking when coming of the drive in the morning... Checked other sub frame bolts were tight.
> 
> So far I have changed the drop links, both strut top mounts and bearings and now the sub frame bolts. Nothing was picked up on MOT testing as it went through with no adviseries, no play in the steering/ ball joints / bushes.
> 
> Running out of ideas!


Hi, Did you change any other bolts after the 2 of the subframe ? Thanks.


----------



## Barr_end

Menzo said:


> Barr_end said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be getting my bolts/invoice back from *TPS* and sorting hers, so I will update how I get on.
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you buy all the bolts ? Thanks.
Click to expand...

  Sorry just had to! TPS or your local dealer is best place.

Been back to TPS and ordered all the bolts for my misses TT,
Will update with part numbers when I dig it out at home and remember which ones are the bolts!


----------



## Menzo

Barr_end said:


> Sorry just had to! TPS or your local dealer is best place.
> 
> Been back to TPS and ordered all the bolts for my misses TT,
> Will update with part numbers when I dig it out at home and remember which ones are the bolts!


I thought I would go to my Audi dealer, but why replace the stock bolts with other stock ones ? Thanks


----------



## Menzo

Someone else changed the bolts on the subframe ?


----------



## mickee92

Menzo said:


> Someone else changed the bolts on the subframe ?


I will be in January when I get my engine mounts replaced as the subframe will be dropped again.

If nobody comes back before me with feedback then I will in January.


----------



## Menzo

mickee92 said:


> Menzo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Someone else changed the bolts on the subframe ?
> 
> 
> 
> I will be in January when I get my engine mounts replaced as the subframe will be dropped again.
> 
> If nobody comes back before me with feedback then I will in January.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I appreciate that. Do you have that knocking problem when you turn the steering too ?


----------



## mickee92

Yeah exactly like the ones im the videos at the start of the theead.

I've had my subframe off a few times this year and only started since then so seems the most logical solution which we shall see.


----------



## calletso

Menzo said:


> calletso said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got around to changing the main subframe bolts last weekend. (Red ones in the diagram) I also installed spacer shims between the subframe and body (a vw TSB fix for this problem on other shared platform vehicles).
> 
> Unfortunately this has made no difference, still get the same noises from the steering and a clunking when coming of the drive in the morning... Checked other sub frame bolts were tight.
> 
> So far I have changed the drop links, both strut top mounts and bearings and now the sub frame bolts. Nothing was picked up on MOT testing as it went through with no adviseries, no play in the steering/ ball joints / bushes.
> 
> Running out of ideas!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, Did you change any other bolts after the 2 of the subframe ? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Hi - no I only changed the large 115mm subframe ones (red in diagram)

I did check the torque and nip up 4 others whilst under there (ones you get to through the wishbone and the ones near the wishbone bush)

When the weather is better I will get back under and check all bolts, or maybe just buy the full set and replace them if the part numbers get posted on here.


----------



## cw955

I've had a knocking for a while - even passed MOT a couple of times! - so decided to try and sort it:
Step 1 - replaced drop links both sides - No improvement
Step 2 - replaced strut top mounts and bearings both sides - No improvement (however discovered a garage which had replaced a broken spring a few years ago had replaced the offside mount in the wrong orientation!!)
Step 3 - had a mate who works at an Audi dealer look at it. Engine off, ignition lock off, rock the steering wheel side to side. This resulted in a distinctly audible clonk/knock and if I placed my hand on the N/S steering rack boot I could definitely feel movement. He commented that the N/S was more likely to fail as it is a longer rod so has more leverage on it. The farm track I live up hasn't helped!
It appears that a new rack is around £500 [smiley=bigcry.gif] and you need a subframe alignment tool (£20 from Amazon) looks like I'm going to be busy over Christmas.


----------



## JB89

Is it a similar noise to that posted in the video in this thread?

If so sounds like it's worth trying the bolts before steering rack!

Not got round to doing mine either, perhaps over the Xmas period but more likely early next year now.


----------



## mickee92

Yeah likewise it will be in January when I get round to replacing them too.

I definitely wont be replacing anything to do with the steering rack before trying the bolts!! :lol: [smiley=bomb.gif]


----------



## Menzo

cw955 said:


> I've had a knocking for a while - even passed MOT a couple of times! - so decided to try and sort it:
> Step 1 - replaced drop links both sides - No improvement
> Step 2 - replaced strut top mounts and bearings both sides - No improvement (however discovered a garage which had replaced a broken spring a few years ago had replaced the offside mount in the wrong orientation!!)
> Step 3 - had a mate who works at an Audi dealer look at it. Engine off, ignition lock off, rock the steering wheel side to side. This resulted in a distinctly audible clonk/knock and if I placed my hand on the N/S steering rack boot I could definitely feel movement. He commented that the N/S was more likely to fail as it is a longer rod so has more leverage on it. The farm track I live up hasn't helped!
> It appears that a new rack is around £500 [smiley=bigcry.gif] and you need a subframe alignment tool (£20 from Amazon) looks like I'm going to be busy over Christmas.


I changed the steering rack on my TT and the knocking is still there.

I make a video, saying me if the knocking is the same on your TTs: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZxJaqE ... e=youtu.be
(Thank you all for your answers  )


----------



## Menzo

mickee92 said:


> Yeah likewise it will be in January when I get round to replacing them too.
> 
> I definitely wont be replacing anything to do with the steering rack before trying the bolts!! :lol: [smiley=bomb.gif]


Are you going to buy bolts at your Audi dealer ? I'm asking you because I don't understand why replace the OEM bolts with other OEM bolts unless the bolts have a manufacturing defect that makes them too fragile . Thank you
(merry christmas to all)


----------



## mickee92

Menzo said:


> mickee92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah likewise it will be in January when I get round to replacing them too.
> 
> I definitely wont be replacing anything to do with the steering rack before trying the bolts!! :lol: [smiley=bomb.gif]
> 
> 
> 
> Are you going to buy bolts at your Audi dealer ? I'm asking you because I don't understand why replace the OEM bolts with other OEM bolts unless the bolts have a manufacturing defect that makes them too fragile . Thank you
> (merry christmas to all)
Click to expand...

Was relying on Barr_end to come back with his invoice for all the bolts required but I'll probably just do that and go to audi as long as their not a fortune from them.

Earlier in the thread Barr_end explained that the subframe bolts are a one use only... would kind of make sense if their stretch bolts and make even more sense as I've had my subframe dropped multiple times this year.

You could try the locking kit as recommended below.



Barr_end said:


> Bolts won't appear to be loose, but they are a 1 use only stretch bolt to a torque plus 90 degrees.
> As I wrote before, highly recommend changing these! They stretch over time and will allow the frame to move.
> Should be x6 main frame bolts (m12? with 18mm heads), 4 in the rack, 4 in the wishbone bush (m10? with 16mm heads) and if you wanted x4 (m8, 13mm head) antiroll bar bush brackets. All of those (minus the ARB bolts) cost me sub £50 from TPS trade account, if you're worried about spending money that may not fix the issue but I can't see it being much else with what you've replaced.
> If you reread my previous post mine was exactly the same, even with the kit but when I hadn't replaced everyone of the bolts mentioned above. More noticeable at low speeds and drop curbs.
> If you wanted a subframe locking kit, I personally went Tyrol as the above mentioned issues and seen how well designed they were first hand. I ordered direct from them: http://www.tyrolsport.com/suspension/ch ... 2-audi-tt/


----------



## Menzo

mickee92 said:


> Was relying on Barr_end to come back with his invoice for all the bolts required but I'll probably just do that and go to audi as long as their not a fortune from them.
> 
> Earlier in the thread Barr_end explained that the subframe bolts are a one use only... would kind of make sense if their stretch bolts and make even more sense as I've had my subframe dropped multiple times this year.
> 
> You could try the locking kit as recommended below.
> 
> 
> 
> Barr_end said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bolts won't appear to be loose, but they are a 1 use only stretch bolt to a torque plus 90 degrees.
> As I wrote before, highly recommend changing these! They stretch over time and will allow the frame to move.
> Should be x6 main frame bolts (m12? with 18mm heads), 4 in the rack, 4 in the wishbone bush (m10? with 16mm heads) and if you wanted x4 (m8, 13mm head) antiroll bar bush brackets. All of those (minus the ARB bolts) cost me sub £50 from TPS trade account, if you're worried about spending money that may not fix the issue but I can't see it being much else with what you've replaced.
> If you reread my previous post mine was exactly the same, even with the kit but when I hadn't replaced everyone of the bolts mentioned above. More noticeable at low speeds and drop curbs.
> If you wanted a subframe locking kit, I personally went Tyrol as the above mentioned issues and seen how well designed they were first hand. I ordered direct from them: http://www.tyrolsport.com/suspension/ch ... 2-audi-tt/
Click to expand...

Ok, now I understand. I will order the locking kit and keep you informed. Thanks for your help.


----------



## Barr_end

I WILL UPDATE WITH PART NUMBERS! :roll: 
Apologies anyone still waiting on my details on part numbers for those who haven't done as I did and get on the phone/email and hunted them down.
I haven't serviced or replaced the bolts on the misses car, over the Christmas period and have not pulled the box down with the invoice in it. Additionally with a memory like a siv, I also manage not to remember once I reread this thread by the time I've worked throughout the day and got home.


----------



## mickee92

Barr_end said:


> I WILL UPDATE WITH PART NUMBERS! :roll:
> Apologies anyone still waiting on my details on part numbers for those who haven't done as I did and get on the phone/email and hunted them down.
> I haven't serviced or replaced the bolts on the misses car, over the Christmas period and have not pulled the box down with the invoice in it. Additionally with a memory like a siv, I also manage not to remember once I reread this thread by the time I've worked throughout the day and got home.


OI!! You need to stop forgetting about us and this damn invoice! Were more important than your work and personal life :lol:

If you have valuable knowledge you're not allowed to have a life, you stay on here helping some of us helpless lazy sods 

Jokes aside would be brill if you get a chance real soon as mine will be going In within the next few days and I'd love to prove you right! As well the torque settings for the subframe bolts would be great also... might be pushing my luck haha


----------



## Menzo

Hi, I went to my Audi dealer to order the subframe bolts. These are the bolts references and dimensions:

* Subframe bolts:* N10694701 - M12x1,5x115x90
* Anti roll bar bolts:* N10773401 - M8x55
* Steering rack bolts* N10560702 - M10x70


----------



## mickee92

Menzo said:


> Hi, I went to my Audi dealer to order the subframe bolts. These are the bolts references and dimensions:
> 
> * Subframe bolts:* N10694701 - M12x1,5x115x90
> * Anti roll bar bolts:* N10773401 - M8x55
> * Steering rack bolts* N10560702 - M10x70


Good man!

I've replaced the majority of them apart from the main subframe bolts in red...

Was TPS who gave me porsche ones instead so I'll need the main subframe ones (red) and may as well go for the steering rack bolts next time.

I still have a knock but not as bad since replacing the Arb ones and x6 of the frame ones. I reckon the main subframe ones will definitely solve the knock.

Cheers for the part numbers.


----------



## Vanu

I've bought the 4 Passat bolts to change the subframe ones with them (the red ones). As I'm thinking of doing the work myself - should the suspension be in the air or can it be done with the car sitting on its wheels?


----------



## JB89

Hi Vanu,

Did you get round to replacing them, any luck?

Seem to of had nothing but problems with my TT so this was put to the back of the list, but looking to get it done now!

Cheers.


----------



## SwissJetPilot

There's a couple of TSBs that might be related to this problem. Knocking sounds in vehicles are tricky as they can be in one place, but sound like there's somewhere else.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1687994

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1688209


----------



## TTThings

Hi all.. first post in what seems like a great forum.

This thread has made very interesting and helpful reading.

I have what I think is a very similar issue to that described here, but there are a couple of caveats:

- Its intermittent... doesn't happen all the time but seems more noticeable when the car is warm. The very recent warmer weather has lead me to think that its not about the engine necessarily being warm from having been run for a while, but just the general ambient temperature. In the cooler mornings, and in the wet, I don't notice the issue (at least as much).
- Its not just under steering... when I'm parking mine in the evenings the noise can be heard just in a straight line.
- the speed at which the sound is observed is generally very low, although the tyre noise on my S Line might just be concealing something at higher speeds.

I know an earlier poster on here suggested that their issue seems to come and go. Mine is definitely there and more obvious lately.

Its booked into Audi next week, I have an early slot (long wait times) so just hoping I can replicate the problem there and then.

Although its a 13 plate, My car has only 16k on the clock, I would have hoped that these issues wouldn't spring up just yet.

Thoughts of course welcome - I'll take note of the advice on this forum particularly in relation to subframe bolts, but just wondered if anyone had further suggestions given that my issue appears not to be solely related to steering when stationary.

Cheers!


----------



## Menzo

Hi everyone, I finally changed the subframe screws and installed a bushing kit as advised by Barr_end and since then no more knocking. Fortunately I did'nt listen to my Audi dealer who wanted to make me replace the steering rack (2200€ :-* Many thanks to Barr_end [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


----------



## Barr_end

TTThings said:


> Hi all.. first post in what seems like a great forum.
> 
> This thread has made very interesting and helpful reading.
> 
> I have what I think is a very similar issue to that described here, but there are a couple of caveats:
> 
> - Its intermittent... doesn't happen all the time but seems more noticeable when the car is warm. The very recent warmer weather has lead me to think that its not about the engine necessarily being warm from having been run for a while, but just the general ambient temperature. In the cooler mornings, and in the wet, I don't notice the issue (at least as much).
> - Its not just under steering... when I'm parking mine in the evenings the noise can be heard just in a straight line.
> - the speed at which the sound is observed is generally very low, although the tyre noise on my S Line might just be concealing something at higher speeds.
> 
> I know an earlier poster on here suggested that their issue seems to come and go. Mine is definitely there and more obvious lately.
> 
> Its booked into Audi next week, I have an early slot (long wait times) so just hoping I can replicate the problem there and then.
> 
> Although its a 13 plate, My car has only 16k on the clock, I would have hoped that these issues wouldn't spring up just yet.
> 
> Thoughts of course welcome - I'll take note of the advice on this forum particularly in relation to subframe bolts, but just wondered if anyone had further suggestions given that my issue appears not to be solely related to steering when stationary.
> 
> Cheers!


As the subframe holes are oversized in terms of m8 or m10 bolt with a 2-3mm larger hole, the frame doesn't just move with steering, it can move in any direction. Bloke at works S3 8p (same frame, rack, bolts and torque settings) used to clong when he gave it a boot full or broke sharply.
Mine also used to increase with the frequency and loudness of the noise once pulling home from driving back from work, rather than when leaving the drive to go to work in the morning, once the entire car has warmed up.
It isn't a case of being mileage or age related, the bolts do stretched. As people are probably bored of me writing for the minimum effort and cost to replace, doing all the bolts is where I'd start than looking for other suggestions.
I honestly wouldn't bother taking it to Audi to try and get to the bottom of the issue. If you haven't done already.



Menzo said:


> Hi everyone, I finally changed the subframe screws and installed a bushing kit as advised by Barr_end and since then no more knocking. Fortunately I did'nt listen to my Audi dealer who wanted to make me replace the steering rack (2200€ :-* Many thanks to Barr_end [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


Now that's what I want to hear 8) 
I'm glad you've managed to save yourself a serious amount of money! How nice is it to have a nice silent car now? 
Not that many would agree, but all those repeated responses to this thread were well worth it if I was able to help someone out. You're more than welcome man.


----------



## Blix

Hello. I've scanned through this thread (and a few others) but can't see the torque settings for the sub frame. Does anyone have them or can point me towards them. I've also googled but can only find mk1 settings.
Also for the control arms too if poss. or just a complete list of mk2 torques as I'm taking much of the front apart too.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Blix

Don't worry. I found the torque settings on another forum.


----------



## 911F

A few questions if you dont mind:

Are these bolts the same for a 2013 1.8 TFSi? My wifes car has started developing these clunking noises.

I also have similar noises in my MK1 3.2 - are the bolts the same?

Finally - would you mind sharing the Torque Settings?

Many thanks


----------



## pdk42

Blix said:


> Don't worry. I found the torque settings on another forum.


And the torque settings are.....?


----------



## mickee92

Blix said:


> Don't worry. I found the torque settings on another forum.


Paha Cast off I'm on board :lol:


----------



## Daniels

I have had the subframe ECS kit (subframe bolt kit) fitted and the noise is still there. What bushes did you replace to resolve the knocking?


----------



## Barr_end

Daniels said:


> I have had the subframe ECS kit (subframe bolt kit) fitted and the noise is still there. What bushes did you replace to resolve the knocking?


This kit isn't really up to the job and only replaces x2 of the subframe bolts which all need replacing as anyone of those could be causing the noise.


----------



## Daniels

Ah I see. So worth trying all of them. I have had a look but is the only place to get them direct from audi? Do you know the part numbers needed? Assuming the two in that kit are okay. Everything else has been done as well, so this was my last resort regarding the noise. Thanks for the help!


----------



## 911F

Anyone?



911F said:


> A few questions if you dont mind:
> 
> Are these bolts the same for a 2013 1.8 TFSi? My wifes car has started developing these clunking noises.
> 
> I also have similar noises in my MK1 3.2 - are the bolts the same?
> 
> Finally - would you mind sharing the Torque Settings?
> 
> Many thanks


----------



## 911F

Also, does the undertray have to come off to change/tighten the bolts?

Many thanks


----------



## Venom

Did anyone know what the Torque settings are for the bolts on the Subframe?


----------



## SwissJetPilot

Torque values for most of the TT can be found in here. It's a large file so I split it up and posted it for download in four sections.

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1844165


----------



## jonnyfRS

Hi all,

Sorry to dig up an old thread...

I have a 2019 TT RS - Recently started with exactly the same issues described through this topic

The car is currently with Main Dealer, and they have replaced the top mounts but this has not resolved the issue - (Similar to others have described, hollow knocking noise whilst rolling at low speeds, intermittent how bad it is depending on nothing in particular, also will creak and groan dry steering lock to lock, again not every single time and sometimes worse than others.)

My question is regarding changing the subframe bolts, with this being a 3 month old car, and a MK3 will there be difference in the subframe, the bolts needed, any extra ones to consider etc.?

I did mention the info on this thread to the Main Dealer, but they just took note, they never said they would act on this, and currently are at a loss with how to fix the issue.

Any help appreciated!


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## french

It sounds like a broken spring when they catch as you turn it...does it knock when going over bumps, or it just when turning the steering wheel?
In the clip the car is stood still so I am guessing spring catching .TBH my 1st thought was top mount bearings but you have both had them replaced?
It doesn't really sound like sub-frame creak but who knows unless your actualy stood next to the car its hard to tell.
Humour me here please, even though you have had the bearings replaced would you try this please.
get some one turn the Steering wheel & while they do that you put your hand on top of the plastic above the top mount strut, you are trying to feel any vibration throught the strut. If you can it points to either top bearing( possibly not seated prperly ?) or a broken split spring catching. Good Luck...whatever you do if you get it fixed dont just dissapear, let people here know the out come so it helps other people in the future.


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## jonnyfRS

french said:


> It sounds like a broken spring when they catch as you turn it...does it knock when going over bumps, or it just when turning the steering wheel?
> In the clip the car is stood still so I am guessing spring catching .TBH my 1st thought was top mount bearings but you have both had them replaced?
> It doesn't really sound like sub-frame creak but who knows unless your actualy stood next to the car its hard to tell.
> Humour me here please, even though you have had the bearings replaced would you try this please.
> get some one turn the Steering wheel & while they do that you put your hand on top of the plastic above the top mount strut, you are trying to feel any vibration throught the strut. If you can it points to either top bearing( possibly not seated prperly ?) or a broken split spring catching. Good Luck...whatever you do if you get it fixed dont just dissapear, let people here know the out come so it helps other people in the future.


Thanks for taking time to respond. to answer some of your points...

The car is still with Audi, where it has been since Tuesday last week, they have been through everything they explain checking springs, top mounts all the links and have not found anything they can see to be a problem, i cant see this being an issue with the springs as this is one of the first things they have checked..

After reading through all 6 pages of this thread, reading the issues others have noted, i feel that the subframe bolts are the likely culprit. The noise is intermittent, maybe sometime i could argue it is more prominent when the cars been driven for some time. Sometimes it will be very loud creaking and knocking whilst stationary turning the wheel lock to lock, then later on it may not do this at all, then other times it is noticeable when crawling at less than 10 mph there is no consistency to the noise no rhythm etc it seems almost completely random but happens more often than not. I feel this is described similarly from others in this thread.

Heres a video for reference when it was very noticeable


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## A-Rod

Sorry to be reviving an old thread, but I guess this is an example of using search in the internet archives.

I have a 2007 TT Roadster and have recently developed the same issue most people have posted here. The small knocking noise when turning the steering wheel slightly left or right (doesn't make any noise when you turn the wheel further left or further right) - I'd say slightly left or slightly right and it goes like: tak, tak, tak, tak.

I've read through all the pages here and looks like I'll be ordering subframe bolts, along with top mounts and strut brace breaings. Let us see how this goes.


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## F3rnando

My TT has the same problem, subframe bolts and top mounts swapped it behaved excellent (no noise) for 2/3 months and then came back. 
Next month I'm instaling front and rear suspension from Bilstein, and the drop links ...the only thing im not replacing is the springs.

In my opinion i think that....we will never going to know what causes the noise. :?


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## Hadaak

https://www.amazon.com/STEELMAN-06600-C ... =8-2-fkmr0


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## Tditt

I know it's an old thread but its helped me a lot. Thanks Barr_end. I got all the bolts for £18.00 delivered from Deutscheparts.co.uk. It might save someone a few quid in future instead of getting them from TPS or Audi👍


*Shipping Method*
Select Shipping Method - Royal Mail 48

ItemsQtyPriceN10694701 x1 New genuine part - discounts available on multiples
SKU: N106947015£6.00N10773401 x1 New genuine part - discounts available on multiples
SKU: N107734015£6.00N10560702 x1 New genuine part - discounts available on multiples
SKU: N105607025£6.00Subtotal£18.00 Shipping & Handling£0.00 *Grand Total (Excl.Tax)**£15.00* VAT£3.00 *Grand Total (Incl.Tax)**£18.00* 


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## Barr_end

Tditt said:


> I know it's an old thread but its helped me a lot. Thanks Barr_end. I got all the bolts for £18.00 delivered from Deutscheparts.co.uk. It might save someone a few quid in future instead of getting them from TPS or Audi👍
> 
> 
> *Shipping Method*
> Select Shipping Method - Royal Mail 48
> 
> 
> ItemsQtyPriceN10694701 x1 New genuine part - discounts available on multiples
> SKU: N106947015£6.00N10773401 x1 New genuine part - discounts available on multiples
> SKU: N107734015£6.00N10560702 x1 New genuine part - discounts available on multiples
> SKU: N105607025£6.00Subtotal£18.00Shipping & Handling£0.00*Grand Total (Excl.Tax)**£15.00*VAT£3.00*Grand Total (Incl.Tax)**£18.00*


Unfortunately... Looks like you may of grabbed some incorrect bolts & quantities on that order from a different poster within the thread.
I never found my Invoice from TPS and never posted any part numbers because of this.
If you check my reply in this thread earlier on shown below:



Barr_end said:


> That's a lot closer to it yes. I've copied the image and highlighted all the bolts I replaced, each circle means a single bolt. Also the colour code is the bolts I believe are the same. Highlighted ones that appear they aren't there, those are on the wishbone bush cradle.
> So...
> -* Yellow* is x8 bolts - Which are all 16mm heads and same length, for both the steering rack and additionally the smaller bolts for the rear wishbone cradle.
> 
> *Green* is x4 ARB block bolts - 13mm heads, short m8 bolts.
> *Blue* x4 main subframe bolts - These are 18mm heads that are fully threaded stretch bolts. Believe these maybe the same lengths as I think I had x4 of one part number on the invoice (which I should be getting back soon)
> -*Red* is x2 main subframe bolts - that look like stretch bolts, have a small amount of shank, then shank length chances diameter multiple times before reaching the thread on the end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funnily enough after a long drive and back to the new forest misses car is making an awful clunk/knock and slight creaking. I will get a video and upload it for you all to see if this sounds like your issue. (mine was only creaking, most likely due to locking kit not allowing the frame to move/knock)
> I'll be getting my bolts/invoice back from TPS and sorting hers, so I will update how I get on.


However the better response/image I have for this in another thread made about clunking noises:



Barr_end said:


> As it seems people are struggling with this still need it written/shown before going off and being able to fully sort it and get an order in with the stealers...
> So I have made just that, for those who need it.
> 
> I spent an age trying to find a diagram showing the full lower suspension and subframe set up on the front, includes, not only the main central subframe, but the side consoles which run up to the chassis legs, but also the rear wishbone consoles. No idea why google images didn't have a photo of the full thing, accessible seconds, google knows everything right :roll:
> So now I have *ALL* of the bolts highlighted and their roles known.
> 
> I don't have the invoice with the part numbers in front of me however some of those numbers are present from the above and you don't need them to order the bolts from the dealers, I've done it x3 times personally and mates have to.
> 
> So the diagram...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *RED - Main bolts, these are all the same diameter/head size, but all have varying lengths, so different part numbers and are the largest bolts used to hold the frame AND the wishbone consoles to the body/chassis of the car.
> ORANGE - These bolt the wishbone consoles onto the frame, these NEED to be replaced too, along with the REDS at a minimum to stop your frame movement (these are the same bolt - length/diameter part number as the BLUES)
> BLUE - Steering rack bolts
> GREEN - Anti-roll bar bolts
> PINK - front wishbone bolts ( same diameter/head size as the REDS)*
> 
> As I've put before, just replacing one of these bolts is almost pointless, I do have a trade account, but they aren't massively different on price with bolts, if I remember rightly. These cost me sub £50 for ALL the bolts, this is a no brainer in my opinion.
> 
> Especially as the very first time I dropped the frame myself when I fitted, my coilovers, Tyrol subframe locking kit & Superpro antilift kit and poly bushes the ORANGE bolt was on back order to my local TPS and I said don't worry it'll be fine, few weeks later my frame started creeking. Adding fresh bolts in the locations I hadn't replaced rid the noise.
> Then when my clutch was replaced, frame was dropped and I replaced every bolt highlighted and again after many miles on a stiffer than stock car I have had no issues with these noises.


*Now from a quick research online I will use some part numbers below.
DO NOT just order these without checking. I purely wanted to try add some extra information to make it slightly easier.
Please cross check these with your vehicle/REG

RED - 
x4 N10694701 M12 x1.5 x115x90
x2 WHT001914 M12 x1.5 x115-B (believe these are the bolts with slimmed shanks - replace with solid shank bolt)
ORANGE - 
x4 N10560702 M10 x70mm
BLUE - 
x4 N10560702 M10 x70mm
GREEN - 
x4 N10706301 M8 x55mm
PINK - 
x2 N10141003 M12 x1.5 x110mm*


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## jj_tt

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but hoping someone may have some advice. My 2008 Mk2 has the steering noise/creak/knock exactly as described at the beginning of this thread. It doesn't make the noise in really cold weather, or if car has been stood for some days. More noticeable while stationary and at parking speeds but I'm sure it's doing it while driving, but road noise drowns it out. The car drives fine otherwise, nothing picked up on MOT's. I thought I'd try by replacing all the subframe, steering rack and roll bar bolts as recommended. While removing the bolts none were loose and there was no visible sign of movement of the subframe. Having replaced all the bolts I still have the noise. Part of me is thinking I just live with it, it's been like it for 2 years and hasn't got worse. But it's frustrating I can't identify the source of the noise. Does anyone have any ideas what else to look at. Top mounts? Track rod ends? I obviously want to avoid the cost of replacing the steering rack if it's not going to fix the issue.

Thanks


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## Barr_end

jj_tt said:


> Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but hoping someone may have some advice. My 2008 Mk2 has the steering noise/creak/knock exactly as described at the beginning of this thread. It doesn't make the noise in really cold weather, or if car has been stood for some days. More noticeable while stationary and at parking speeds but I'm sure it's doing it while driving, but road noise drowns it out. The car drives fine otherwise, nothing picked up on MOT's. I thought I'd try by replacing all the subframe, steering rack and roll bar bolts as recommended. While removing the bolts none were loose and there was no visible sign of movement of the subframe. Having replaced all the bolts I still have the noise. Part of me is thinking I just live with it, it's been like it for 2 years and hasn't got worse. But it's frustrating I can't identify the source of the noise. Does anyone have any ideas what else to look at. Top mounts? Track rod ends? I obviously want to avoid the cost of replacing the steering rack if it's not going to fix the issue.
> 
> Thanks


Topmounts is the most likely culprit of this noise..
This is usually the first item most replace when playing parts darts to try and rid this noise.
Usually giving every moving part of the front suspension a real good visual inspection and pry about should help you see if there is anything that could be due replacement whilst doing the top mounts.

Then frame bolts is the next step in playing parts darts as it's more than possible this is the noise if it's still present after the mounts have been fitted and is a cheap/easy solution.
Any of the moving components up front, bushes, balljoints, drop links COULD result in this noise, but these would usually have much more noticeable failure characteristics


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## jj_tt

Barr_end said:


> Topmounts is the most likely culprit of this noise..
> This is usually the first item most replace when playing parts darts to try and rid this noise.
> Usually giving every moving part of the front suspension a real good visual inspection and pry about should help you see if there is anything that could be due replacement whilst doing the top mounts.
> 
> Then frame bolts is the next step in playing parts darts as it's more than possible this is the noise if it's still present after the mounts have been fitted and is a cheap/easy solution.
> Any of the moving components up front, bushes, balljoints, drop links COULD result in this noise, but these would usually have much more noticeable failure characteristics


Thanks Barr_end, I'll try the top mounts. I have had a look at this thread and seems like a weekend job








How to - Mk2 3.2 Front Top Strut Replacement


Hi all, So after many months I have tracked the source of an ongoing steering creaking problem to the top strut mounts - I assume the bearings. Have bought the full replacement kits so ready to go. In anticipation of the bottom of the assembly being an absolute betch to hammer off, I have...




www.ttforum.co.uk





I had a good look at bushes while swapping out the frame bolts and no obvious signs of wear on them.


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