# RIP Maggie Thatcher



## SteviedTT (Apr 10, 2009)

One of the best PM's this country has ever had IMO


----------



## Andy75 (Nov 13, 2012)

SteviedTT said:


> One of the best PM's this country has ever had IMO


+1. Fairwell Iron Lady.


----------



## bigsyd (Jul 9, 2008)

She puts all the limp wrist tossers in government to shame... Rip


----------



## ttjay (Apr 18, 2007)

HOW DARE YOU RIP FFS

I will lose no sleep over this. 
Try living for a year on strike, wouldn't happen in this day.
Big up the Miners


----------



## OeTT (Nov 10, 2007)

She certainly divided opinion. Personally I thought some of her ideas were ok but poorly executed.I have to admire the way she dealt with France & Germany though. I would rather have her than Cameron and certainly more than Milliband and his band of tw*ts. Ballsup isn't fit to run a tuck shop, let alone an economy.
+ 1 to the RIP


----------



## Demessiah (Jan 27, 2009)

Dont like living for a year on strike then dont strike.... simples!

Thatcher was a god. End of!

The country needs more like her, we need to sort out the unions and benefit scrounging wastemen crippling this country :twisted: 8)

RIP


----------



## maryanne1986 (Apr 8, 2013)

She took away milk for primary school children!!!!!!
and replaced it with squash and biscuits .... good and bad 

RIP Maggie, try to make more friends up there than you did down here, you peed enough people off lol


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

maryanne1986 said:


> try to make more friends up there than you did down here, you peed enough people off lol


Actually I saw Princess Diana had tweeted "Nope. She's not here."
https://twitter.com/DianaInHeaven

Reminded me of Frankie Boyle on Mock the Week a while ago, when they were discussing the news that it was estimated Thatchers state funeral would cost us £3 million:


> For 3 million you could give everyone in Scotland a shovel, and we could dig a hole so deep we could hand her over to Satan in person


----------



## ttjay (Apr 18, 2007)

> Dont like living for a year on strike then dont strike.... simples!


You complete [email protected], you obviously have no idea what she did to the Industry.

Agree on the scroungers though


----------



## maryanne1986 (Apr 8, 2013)

Spandex said:


> maryanne1986 said:
> 
> 
> > try to make more friends up there than you did down here, you pissed enough people off lol
> ...


Frankie Boyle not one to hold back haha


----------



## ChrisF (Jan 29, 2013)

Elivs Costello said it all a long while back
http://is.gd/oFHmyK


----------



## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

In a democracy all leaders will have a similar number of followers and detractors. In the short term, leaders are judged at the ballet box with a small number of "swing voters" deciding their fate. In the longer term, historians will look on the effect of their policies and the manner of their enactment, in short, their legacy. Thatcher will be judged less harshly by the historians than anyone that followed.


----------



## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Over 30 years after she first came to power I'm still tackling the aftermath of the destruction she wrought on the communities of our industrial cities.

Complain about the benefit dependancy culture? She created it by destroying the traditional industries those communities were built on and then creating sink estates by forcing councils to sell off their housing stock so that they had no option but to reserve what was left for the poorest and most disadvantaged. Go to the other end of the scale and complain about the unfettered, greedy bankers who brought our country to its knees? Yes, her fault too by deregulating the financial sector allowing the stock-broker set that now dominates the Tory front benches to pile up their fortunes at the nation's expense.

As a result of her war to destroy the working classes the rich have got richer while the rest of us have paid for it and today we have one of the most unequal socities in the western world. Think you're better off? You're not. Today the vast majority of us pay a greater proportion of our income in tax than we did in 1979 - and who are the ones who don't? That's right - the richest amongst us. She led the fight-back of the privilaged elite to re-take control of our country for their own benefit and the victory was complete when New Labour capitulated and abandoned any genuine socialist ideals. A hundred years of progress hard won since the oppression and exploitation of the Victorian mills destroyed in a decade, never to be recovered. Consequently today we have millions struggling to survive on low paid, part time work relying on debt to get by in an economy that produces very little. As a contrast, the Germans who retained their manufacturing industries, still have the strongest economy in Europe.

All of this is her lasting legacy.

Rest in peace? Bollocks. Burn in hell.


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

RIP Maggie

A strong leader who made good and bad choices along the way but don't they all ?

I always remember drinking in a local pub as a young man listening to this "gentleman" slagging her off non stop until one of his mates asked him if he had bought his own council house he went a bit quiet then.

She looked after the services which my family were all involved with so for me she was ok.


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Mark Davies said:


> Over 30 years after she first came to power I'm still tackling the aftermath of the destruction she wrought on the communities of our industrial cities.
> 
> Complain about the benefit dependancy culture? She created it by destroying the traditional industries those communities were built on and then creating sink estates by forcing councils to sell off their housing stock so that they had no option but to reserve what was left for the poorest and most disadvantaged. Go to the other end of the scale and complain about the unfettered, greedy bankers who brought our country to its knees? Yes, her fault too by deregulating the financial sector allowing the stock-broker set that now dominates the Tory front benches to pile up their fortunes at the nation's expense.
> 
> ...


A tad harsh Mark, but very right I think also. The only thing she did correct was taking back the Falklands.


----------



## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Mark Davies said:


> Over 30 years after she first came to power I'm still tackling the aftermath of the destruction she wrought on the communities of our industrial cities.
> 
> Complain about the benefit dependancy culture? She created it by destroying the traditional industries those communities were built on and then creating sink estates by forcing councils to sell off their housing stock so that they had no option but to reserve what was left for the poorest and most disadvantaged. Go to the other end of the scale and complain about the unfettered, greedy bankers who brought our country to its knees? Yes, her fault too by deregulating the financial sector allowing the stock-broker set that now dominates the Tory front benches to pile up their fortunes at the nation's expense.
> 
> ...


i think you summed her and her legacy just about perfectly Mark


----------



## boyabouttown (Mar 3, 2013)

Demessiah said:


> Dont like living for a year on strike then dont strike....
> 
> RIP


didn't do the scabs much good in the end.


----------



## boyabouttown (Mar 3, 2013)

Demessiah said:


> Thatcher was a god. End of!
> 
> RIP


decimating whole communities is not my idea of a god.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

Well said Mark. She divided in life and ger legacy continues to divide in death. I will never forget the way she insisted that the wounded soldiers of the falklands , all of whom were sat in wheelchairs, should be put to the back of the church for the rememberance service, as she didnt want them seen. Industry gone; the organisations who today make the largest profits privatised; houses meant to ensure everyone could have a home, sold off and the vast majority of them now in the hands of private landlords. She was that popular after 11 years that her own party stabbed her in the back and wheeled her through the door. She was an egotist of the highest standing that ruined relationships and our countries standing across Europe and paved the way for the division we experience today. She turned policemen against the working the working man who paid their wages; battoning them into submission and devistating communities. I personally hope that she burns in hell whose fires I hope are fuelled by the ample coal that still sits in the ground.


----------



## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Growing up in an ex pit village with a retired miner in the household you can guess my views on the bitch , not only that but you want someone to blame for the current state of the railways in this country .Two for the price of one .


----------



## rich2891 (Feb 10, 2013)

She certainly divided opinion but definitely had more backbone than this current crock of 5h1t !
RIP
Richard


----------



## Hilly10 (Feb 4, 2004)

SteviedTT said:


> One of the best PM's this country has ever had IMO


+1

I just loved it when she busted them bolshy unions  

Farewell iron lady sweet dreams


----------



## ttjay (Apr 18, 2007)

> Demessiah wrote:
> Dont like living for a year on strike then dont strike....
> 
> RIP
> ...


TOO TRUE, WELL SAID THAT MAN


----------



## ChrisF (Jan 29, 2013)

YELLOW_TT said:


> Mark Davies said:
> 
> 
> > Over 30 years after she first came to power I'm still tackling the aftermath of the destruction she wrought on the communities of our industrial cities.
> ...


+100


----------



## barton TT (Nov 13, 2004)

Hilly10 said:


> SteviedTT said:
> 
> 
> > One of the best PM's this country has ever had IMO
> ...


+2 Top lady always had my vote.


----------



## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

Hilly10 said:


> SteviedTT said:
> 
> 
> > One of the best PM's this country has ever had IMO
> ...


 * +1*
Certainly 'the' best most courageous leader in my lifetime.
One of the few politicians who makes you feel proud to be British!

Courageous in scrapping the grossly unfair unworkable Rates system; the Community Charge wasn't perfect but was a long awaited bold step in the correct direction. Also very courageous after the cowardly _(it was planted months previously)_ Brighton Bomb, having actually driven past the Grand that morning it was a frightening sight! 
Maggie put Britain on the Map and stood firm in not joining the Euro unless we got a fair deal! _(very glad about that one!)_
The list goes on.


----------



## ttjay (Apr 18, 2007)

To all the worshippers - Think yourselves very lucky you didn't work in any of the Industries she Destroyed!
:twisted: :evil:


----------



## Nyxx (May 1, 2012)

Wow you guys have really strong views on the Iron Lady [smiley=gossip.gif]

Hate or love her just like these replies here, that woman or bitch as some of you call her had more back bone than all of them in any party we have at the moment.

When you talk about the miners are you talking about mining or the unions? Two very different things.


----------



## davelincs (Jan 1, 2010)

YELLOW_TT said:


> Mark Davies said:
> 
> 
> > Over 30 years after she first came to power I'm still tackling the aftermath of the destruction she wrought on the communities of our industrial cities.
> ...


Good riddance, hope she never rests in peace, if anyone screwed this country up she did


----------



## YoungOldUn (Apr 12, 2011)

R.I.P.

The best prime minister since Churchill during WW2.


----------



## ChrisF (Jan 29, 2013)

[smiley=dude.gif]


davelincs said:


> YELLOW_TT said:
> 
> 
> > Mark Davies said:
> ...


----------



## davek9 (May 7, 2002)

Mark Davies said:


> Over 30 years after she first came to power I'm still tackling the aftermath of the destruction she wrought on the communities of our industrial cities.
> 
> Complain about the benefit dependancy culture? She created it by destroying the traditional industries those communities were built on and then creating sink estates by forcing councils to sell off their housing stock so that they had no option but to reserve what was left for the poorest and most disadvantaged. Go to the other end of the scale and complain about the unfettered, greedy bankers who brought our country to its knees? Yes, her fault too by deregulating the financial sector allowing the stock-broker set that now dominates the Tory front benches to pile up their fortunes at the nation's expense.
> 
> ...


Thank goodness i'm not the only one who thinks this way. After watching the news tonight i thought i was the only one in the Country who thought this way about her especially after watching Cameron telling me how great she was and how much the country will be mourning her passing.
I wonder how many people who are praising the woman actually lived through her systematic destruction of many regions and industries of the UK. 
Reading through this thread she continues as in life to divide opinion far more than any politician in history.


----------



## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

ttjay said:


> To all the worshippers - Think yourselves very lucky you didn't work in any of the Industries she Destroyed!
> :twisted: :evil:


Boo-hoo


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

She would have sorted the TTOC committee out :wink:


----------



## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

She was the right person at the right time. She inherited a country being held to ransom by the unions (the winter of discontent 78/79) where hardly a day went by without some major leviathan of a company being affected by a strike. Inflation was running in double figures, we had shortages of everything, Petrol, Sugar, Toilet Rolls etc, whilst the dead werent buried and our rubbish was sat in the street uncollected. The country was a mess and most of it caused by weak government and the all too powerful unions. Things had to change.

As a result we may have lost many major loss making traditional industries and the all powerful unions were brought back in check and she promoted free enterprise. Nearly every small company in existence today is in existence today because of the opportunity provided back in the 1980's when UK plc was brought back from the brink.

Yes she made some mistakes (who doesnt make mistakes) but she was the greatest Prime Minister of my life time and long may she rest in peace.


----------



## ttjay (Apr 18, 2007)

Rust in Peace


----------



## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

So I assume (as you are from South Wales) you would prefer a job for life down the pit, with lungs full of coal dust and the back breaking labour intensive work, getting back to your tenanted home covered in grime and requiring a daily bath, and bearly being able to afford your tatty Morris Marina or Austin Allegro?

Or I assume you now have a good job which can afford (over the years) several nice spec prestige cars and pay for your own home etc?

Life aint perfect (and it never will be) but there are opportunities for small business today which would never have existed in the early 80's. Consequently we now have (according to the BBC last week) 7 social classes in the UK rather than the 3 we had back then.


----------



## maryanne1986 (Apr 8, 2013)

mighTy Tee said:


> So I assume (as you are from South Wales) you would prefer a job for life down the pit, with lungs full of coal dust and the back breaking labour intensive work, getting back to your tenanted home covered in grime and requiring a daily bath, and bearly being able to afford your tatty Morris Marina or Austin Allegro?
> 
> Or I assume you now have a good job which can afford (over the years) several nice spec prestige cars and pay for your own home etc?
> 
> Life aint perfect (and it never will be) but there are opportunities for small business today which would never have existed in the early 80's. Consequently we now have (according to the BBC last week) 7 social classes in the UK rather than the 3 we had back then.


I am from south wales and am for one glad I am not down a pit ... not that I would be cos im a women (but whos knows though?)

She did some things very well, but other things not so well
I for one love the way she empowered women, im a bit of a feminist to be honest and she was a significant figure in feminist political history. as well as those through the different waves of feminism. However I still don't approve of the fact she took milk away from school children and for that ... screw you thatch haha 

RIP


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

mighTy Tee said:


> She was the right person at the right time. She inherited a country being held to ransom by the unions (the winter of discontent 78/79) where hardly a day went by without some major leviathan of a company being affected by a strike. Inflation was running in double figures, we had shortages of everything, Petrol, Sugar, Toilet Rolls etc, whilst the dead werent buried and our rubbish was sat in the street uncollected. The country was a mess and most of it caused by weak government and the all too powerful unions. Things had to change.
> 
> As a result we may have lost many major loss making traditional industries and the all powerful unions were brought back in check and she promoted free enterprise. Nearly every small company in existence today is in existence today because of the opportunity provided back in the 1980's when UK plc was brought back from the brink.
> 
> Yes she made some mistakes (who doesnt make mistakes) but she was the greatest Prime Minister of my life time and long may she rest in peace.


She also inherited a country with virtually no unemployment, which she soon set about changing, creating the situation we find ourselves in today. If you find yourself complaining about a country with generation after generation claiming benefits, you need to look back at who put those first generations out of work.

As for 'major loss making traditional industries', a large number of these industries are doing very well to this day, but in the hands of foreign owners. If you find yourself complaining that Britain no longer manufactures anything and is a nation of service industries, you need to look back at who set us on that path.

And todays banking crisis? It's fairly plain to see that Thatchers 'experiment' in deregulation of the finance industry has played a large part in putting us where we are today.

All the above things are common right wing complaints, yet they continue to put Thatcher up on a pedestal.


----------



## igotone (Mar 10, 2010)

I come from a coal mining family and worked in the mines from leaving school at 15 until I was 22. It was back breaking work in the most primitive conditions you can imagine, so no tears from me on the shutting of pits.

Oh yeah, Maggie..... bigger balls than most men, which she proved with the Falklands Crisis and the Iranian Embassy siege. Remarkable woman!


----------



## ttjay (Apr 18, 2007)

mighTy Tee said:


> So I assume (as you are from South Wales) you would prefer a job for life down the pit, with lungs full of coal dust and the back breaking labour intensive work, getting back to your tenanted home covered in grime and requiring a daily bath, and bearly being able to afford your tatty Morris Marina or Austin Allegro?
> 
> Or I assume you now have a good job which can afford (over the years) several nice spec prestige cars and pay for your own home etc?
> 
> ...


I'm So grateful to my Father and Grandfathers that I am not down the Pit. 
They gave me the best start in life by working their arses off down the Pits so I wouldn't have to. It was hard word and horrendous conditions but there are thousands of people in our areas that would love these jobs in the Industrys that she destroyed.
Is the BBC just trying to say we are not in a recession? What a load of utter crap, how can you base a class structure on the friends you have or what music your into.


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

even now she has the working class arguing on here...........consistant you have to admit lol. she just got power crazy and in the end believed her own hype, i can recall the 80's very well and was never out of work! you could walk around any industrial estate and get a job the same day, alas those industrial estates are mostly dead or filled with small back street sole traders like me scratching a living. as stated, she was great in her prime by taking on the unions and falklands/iranian embassy. then it nose dived.......privatisation, poll tax, deregulation of financials etc etc. how else could a worm like major get in :lol:


----------



## boyabouttown (Mar 3, 2013)

simno44 said:


> ttjay said:
> 
> 
> > To all the worshippers - Think yourselves very lucky you didn't work in any of the Industries she Destroyed!
> ...


i can understand the posts for and against her economic policies and the love or hate for her but to laugh at thousands of peoples lives destroyed is bad form.


----------



## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

maryanne1986 said:


> mighTy Tee said:
> 
> 
> > So I assume (as you are from South Wales) you would prefer a job for life down the pit, with lungs full of coal dust and the back breaking labour intensive work, getting back to your tenanted home covered in grime and requiring a daily bath, and bearly being able to afford your tatty Morris Marina or Austin Allegro?
> ...


 What about the Lactose Intolerant? 
This is just discrimination!


----------



## CWM3 (Mar 4, 2012)

Mark Davies said:


> Over 30 years after she first came to power I'm still tackling the aftermath of the destruction she wrought on the communities of our industrial cities.
> 
> Complain about the benefit dependancy culture? She created it by destroying the traditional industries those communities were built on and then creating sink estates by forcing councils to sell off their housing stock so that they had no option but to reserve what was left for the poorest and most disadvantaged. Go to the other end of the scale and complain about the unfettered, greedy bankers who brought our country to its knees? Yes, her fault too by deregulating the financial sector allowing the stock-broker set that now dominates the Tory front benches to pile up their fortunes at the nation's expense.
> 
> ...


Funny this coming from a copper....bunch of slavish animals that were more than happy to kick any protester/striker/supporter and a nice bit of overtime to go with it as well.....short memory IMO


----------



## ttjay (Apr 18, 2007)

Gazzer, who you calling working class, I've done the BBC test lol


----------



## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

boyabouttown said:


> simno44 said:
> 
> 
> > ttjay said:
> ...


Indeed.. So who is doing that then?


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

blame Rodderick..........as he is on the rigs :roll:


----------



## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

Mines, mines, mines, mines thats all i have have heard all day at work and now on here rofl, maybe thats the answer to this countrys financial problems, lets get them all re opened as it must have been making us £trillions and been such a wonderful job!!!!

As for Mrs Iron, she did good and bad just like all of them it seems to be there job they cannot please everyone?? To chant burn in hell and glad your dead is just crossing the line imo.


----------



## Hilly10 (Feb 4, 2004)

mighTy Tee said:


> She was the right person at the right time. She inherited a country being held to ransom by the unions (the winter of discontent 78/79) where hardly a day went by without some major leviathan of a company being affected by a strike. Inflation was running in double figures, we had shortages of everything, Petrol, Sugar, Toilet Rolls etc, whilst the dead werent buried and our rubbish was sat in the street uncollected. The country was a mess and most of it caused by weak government and the all too powerful unions. Things had to change.
> 
> As a result we may have lost many major loss making traditional industries and the all powerful unions were brought back in check and she promoted free enterprise. Nearly every small company in existence today is in existence today because of the opportunity provided back in the 1980's when UK plc was brought back from the brink.
> 
> Yes she made some mistakes (who doesnt make mistakes) but she was the greatest Prime Minister of my life time and long may she rest in peace.


Well said that man


----------



## boyabouttown (Mar 3, 2013)

[/quote]

Indeed.. So who is doing that then?[/quote]

if boo-hoo is'nt meant to be taken as laughing at them, then i apologise but thats how it read to me.


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Danny1 said:


> Mines, mines, mines, mines thats all i have have heard all day at work and now on here rofl, maybe thats the answer to this countrys financial problems, lets get them all re opened as it must have been making us £trillions and been such a wonderful job!!!!
> 
> As for Mrs Iron, she did good and bad just like all of them it seems to be there job they cannot please everyone?? To chant burn in hell and glad your dead is just crossing the line imo.


+1 well said young man


----------



## Demessiah (Jan 27, 2009)

From what I can see, the only people who have a problem with Thatcher are either commies or wastemen...

If your industry doenst make money then its not an industry its a charity.

Unions had our country broken into pieces. Thatcher took no crap and gave them what they deserve. Same with the Argies and Iranistainians 8)

We need someone like her in power today, someone with some balls! All the 'rights and entitlement' crew need a good dose of reality!


----------



## CWM3 (Mar 4, 2012)

And I give to the country our new leader

Prime Minister Demessiah

TDi boys time to live in fear :mrgreen:


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Demessiah said:


> From what I can see, the only people who have a problem with Thatcher are either commies or wastemen...
> 
> If your industry doenst make money then its not an industry its a charity.
> 
> ...


you get my vote, toodle off to downing street in ya tdi and do a coup on there arses bud


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Demessiah said:


> From what I can see, the only people who have a problem with Thatcher are either commies or wastemen...
> 
> If your industry doenst make money then its not an industry its a charity.
> 
> ...


How old were you when she left office (that was in 1990, to save you looking it up)?


----------



## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Indeed.. So who is doing that then?[/quote]

if boo-hoo is'nt meant to be taken as laughing at them, then i apologise but thats how it read to me.[/quote]

I would be a very cold character indeed if I where to direct such a gesture toward those who did suffer at that period buddy but no. The picture was alight hearted dig towards the fellow that was wining about it all. Nothing sinister.

Personally I don't claim to know much about thatchers motions during her time in politics. 
But what I do know is that her intentions where good and that she played a leading part in placing the country in the position it is currently in as regards to global status.

The role as a PM is surely the same principle as is any managerial role. You simply can't please everyone.

In my opinion in this thread specifically? politics should not have Come into play. Those who don't agree with thatcher have right to speak of course but my advice and request would be that you ignore this topic, find the flame room and begin your own campaign against things that now can't be changed.

As a female representative. And a public figure for our country she will be remembered as the best there has been. There isnt much that will argue against those views.


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Spandex said:


> Demessiah said:
> 
> 
> > From what I can see, the only people who have a problem with Thatcher are either commies or wastemen...
> ...


7 :roll:


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

simno44 said:


> The role as a PM is surely the same principle as is any managerial role. You simply can't please everyone.


I think what upsets a lot of people is that she focused all her efforts on pleasing the rich and spared very little effort on the poor. Out of those two groups, you'd think that the poor would be the ones most in need of help, but her theory was if you worked towards making it easier for the wealthy to make more money, some of that extra money would eventually trickle down to the people at the bottom of the heap, leaving everyone better off. That theory has been shown by history to be flawed.

It's very easy for people who profited from her policies to say "well everyone makes mistakes", but if you were one of the people who's life she unsuccessfully gambled with, I imagine it's a little harder to look back on it and say "oh well".


simno44 said:


> As a female representative. And a public figure for our country she will be remembered as the best there has been. There isnt much that will argue against those views.


As a female representative? Thatcher was famously anti-feminism and anti-equality. I don't think she did anything to advance sexual equality in the UK. As for how she's remembered around the world, she was friends with P.W. Botha (and refered to Mandela and the ANC as "terrorists"), she was friends with Pinochet and she alledgedly sent arms to Saddam Hussein and provided training and technical support to the Khmer Rouge. She didn't shower us in glory...


----------



## OeTT (Nov 10, 2007)

correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't the "power to the workers", we're all equal ideals she fought against also been proven to be crap as well? It's very interesting to see the polorisation of political views. The same people who seem to hold her responsible for industry's ills and feel Scargill and his like were heroes will not doubt those who have currently forgotten the role labour played in dumping us in the shit now.
Whatever colour your Politics, you can't spend what you don't have.


----------



## Demessiah (Jan 27, 2009)

Labour and their communist supporters narrow minded and foolish ideals break the country

Conservative come in and sort out the mess (hurting a few in the progress)

People forget how idiotic Labour can be and give them another chance

Labour then proceed to break the country again

and the process repeats itself over.......

is there anybody out there who seriously doesnt believe this is how the political cycle goes?

Unfortunately the degenerate classes are now starting to outnumber the decent folk in GB so this country has got a hard time ahead of it. [email protected]#ng unions, tramps on benefits and retarded scots shouldnt have the vote. Let the people want the best for the county as a whole make decisions!


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

OeTT said:


> correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't the "power to the workers", we're all equal ideals she fought against also been proven to be crap as well? It's very interesting to see the polorisation of political views. The same people who seem to hold her responsible for industry's ills and feel Scargill and his like were heroes will not doubt those who have currently forgotten the role labour played in dumping us in the shit now.
> Whatever colour your Politics, you can't spend what you don't have.


Scargill was no hero as far as I'm concerned, but just because I don't agree with him doesn't mean I agree with Thatcher. That sort of partisan view of politics doesn't get anyone anywhere. See Demisters posts for example.

New Labour were shaped by Thatchers policies as much as the Conservatives were, and of course they have to shoulder some of the blame - even at a simplistic level, they didn't really try to fix the things she broke, but Thatcher made some radical and groundbreaking changes which, with the benefit of hindsight we now have, it's hard to say were successful

It's easy to say "the industries were disfunctional, so she did us a favour by selling them off", but that seems to be a pretty binary view of things. It's true many of the nationalised industries were crippled by management problems, but to suggest the only possible solution to that is privatisation is madness. Thatcher liked it because it saved her having to fix the real issues, and made her a load of short term cash, but many of those industries are now very profitable (making money for foreign owners) so it seems to me that we would have been in a better position now had we fixed the issues instead of just selling everything off wholesale.


----------



## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

CWM3 said:


> Funny this coming from a copper....bunch of slavish animals that were more than happy to kick any protester/striker/supporter and a nice bit of overtime to go with it as well.....short memory IMO


What an utterly idiotic notion!

Yes, Thatcher implemented the findings of the Edmund Davis report (a review of police pay and conditions actually commissioned by the preceding Labour government). Despite the fact that whoever happened to get elected in 1979 would have done exactly the same Thatcher just happened to be the one there when the pay of police officers was significantly increased, and got the credit for it. Yes, that made her popular amongst the police of the day and she exploited that in due course to use the police as her strong-arm in the war against the unions and in particular the miners. To their shame the police did as she bid them.

But I joined the police a decade after the miner's strike and long after Thatcher had been ousted from power by her own cabinet, disappearing into political obscurity - so what the hell has any of the above got to do with me? Or for that matter any currently serving officers given that virtually every officer serving during the strike has by now retired?

It's got nothing to do with me having a short memory - just your inability to understand the polic service has moved on. It's now the 21st century - had you not heard?


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

"Yes indeed! (Spandex and Mark) as Ben Elton said in the eighties - the time of the Rubik's cube, miners strike and poll tax, the Young Ones decrying Thatcher's Britain!

Thatcher took a stand against demarcation disputes and some of the more dysfunctional practices of the unions - who remembers "I'm alright Jack"? But she was responsible for some of the most socially devisive policies that still scar our country - the miner's dispute being one of the more memorable with an almost paramilitary use of the police.

I still remember turning up to a poll tax protest meeting and being shocked to see that it wasn't just young activists but included people from all walks of life; little old ladies up in arms at the injustice, businessmen outspoken in their condemnation receiving cheers from the diverse gathering. I remember paying my poll tax bill well beyond the deadline using two whole cheque books with each cheque for £1.23, £2.56, £0.70 etc. to make the total, as part of an organised civil protest to make the collection unworkable - and then later receiving a polite letter from the council returning one of my cheques because I'd forgotten to sign it - not summoned to appear in court for non payment as threatened, because the council clerks were obviously sympathetic and playing along. What other government policy was ever so universally condemned and resisted?

When you look back at the Thatcher era you can track the demise of the manufacturing sector and the substitution with the service industry - in a10 year period we had a 40% decline in the manufacturing sector and rise of services for which she was seemingly proud to say something along the lines of 'it doesn't matter if we serve chips or make micro chips'.

The very industries she heralded as a success of privatisation were a con. BT for example was a national joke with Payphones not working, unreliable lines and bureaucracy - then privatised, improved and heralded as a success of Tory policy, and yet that wasn't the reason - it was technology, the microprocessor that improved the reliability of Payphones and digitisation of the exchanges to replace the old electro mechanical Strouger system that improved the industry - nothing to do with privatisation. I know I was there!

You've got the power industry starved of investment because of the lack of a centralised long term strategy and short term greed of profit taking. The National Grid is clearly a collective responsibility and yet we were left with an artificially created "market" where at 6pm every night bidders into this contrived auction are chosen to provide peak power and the unsuccessful, who have had to ramp up their generators in anticipation then have to vent steam - what a waste! The National Grid clearly needs to be nationalised in the country's interests, as does the railways. Never before has a doctrine gone so much in the face of common sense since some of the Catholic Church's rulings against scientific progress in the middle ages and Renaissance periods.

Well she left us with a banking legacy to be proud of :roll:


----------



## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

ttjay said:


> To all the worshippers - Think yourselves very lucky you didn't work in any of the Industries she Destroyed!
> :twisted: :evil:


I think those industries did a great job of destroying them selves!

Rover: strikes for more money because they replaced a wheel wrench with a compressed air gun.
Strikes because a window would not shut in the canteen.
Miners: £450 per week for sweeping the cage out and when asked to multi task bought the whole pit out on strike.


----------



## ttjay (Apr 18, 2007)

jonah said:


> ttjay said:
> 
> 
> > To all the worshippers - Think yourselves very lucky you didn't work in any of the Industries she Destroyed!
> ...


£450pw please show proof of this


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

jonah said:


> ttjay said:
> 
> 
> > To all the worshippers - Think yourselves very lucky you didn't work in any of the Industries she Destroyed!
> ...


errrr i have to put my hand up to this sort of action  i was a young (20's) shop stupid at lucas bryce in gloucester and we would stop the whole factory working due to one non member not being on the section working......right ALL OUT!!!!
down boozer and few games of pool then home. so i completely agree that the unions cripled us in being competetive in the world market.
Edit: that non member played golf with the chairman, so was never going to get laid off


----------



## CWM3 (Mar 4, 2012)

Mark Davies said:


> CWM3 said:
> 
> 
> > Funny this coming from a copper....bunch of slavish animals that were more than happy to kick any protester/striker/supporter and a nice bit of overtime to go with it as well.....short memory IMO
> ...


Hook, line and bite......Yep 21st century, and your profession is no more popular today than it was then, still so far out of touch.
I accept you were not involved, but I was, and its left a bad taste in the mouth.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

mighTy Tee said:


> So I assume (as you are from South Wales) you would prefer a job for life down the pit, with lungs full of coal dust and the back breaking labour intensive work, getting back to your tenanted home covered in grime and requiring a daily bath, and bearly being able to afford your tatty Morris Marina or Austin Allegro?
> 
> Or I assume you now have a good job which can afford (over the years) several nice spec prestige cars and pay for your own home etc?
> 
> Life aint perfect (and it never will be) but there are opportunities for small business today which would never have existed in the early 80's. Consequently we now have (according to the BBC last week) 7 social classes in the UK rather than the 3 we had back then.


Think you ned to understand that there are opinions other than yours chap. Like thatcher you seem to think that because you say it, that it must be true. Half a country hate her; her own party stabbed her in the back; there were riots in the streets; how were small businesses doing on black friday when the value of the pound halved; how many small businesses do you think went under when she put three million were on the dole not buying their wears? Well see you obviously did ok so it must be re rest of us who are all wrong. I personally would tie her to the back of a motor bike next wednesday and drag her through the streets.


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

BrianR said:


> mighTy Tee said:
> 
> 
> > So I assume (as you are from South Wales) you would prefer a job for life down the pit, with lungs full of coal dust and the back breaking labour intensive work, getting back to your tenanted home covered in grime and requiring a daily bath, and bearly being able to afford your tatty Morris Marina or Austin Allegro?
> ...


Naked?


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

Gazzer said:


> jonah said:
> 
> 
> > ttjay said:
> ...


What a complete load of bollocks; without trade unions you would all be working 18 hours a day in the mills mate and dying in your 50's, without the money to fund a doctor or a hospital bed. The tories have never been at the heart of anything that has benefitted the ordinary man, in fact consistently they are at the heart of taking what the ordinary man has away. They are today what they were then and what they will always be. It is the suckers who kiss their arses today and back then that allow them to persist. I only wish that they would get on their bikes the gang of fecking leeches.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

Gazzer said:


> BrianR said:
> 
> 
> > mighTy Tee said:
> ...


ewww no )


----------



## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

CWM3 said:


> I accept you were not involved, but I was, and its left a bad taste in the mouth.


And as a result I'm not allowed to hold a particular view, even if it happens to agree with yours?

I'm a working class lad from a north west mining town whose pits were closed. My wife and I were together in 1985 and her father was a striking miner who never worked down a pit again. My own father never held a regular job again after his factory closed in the recession of the late '80s. I came out of school in that decade too and saw all my hopes and aspirtions crushed with a crumbling economy. I hated Thatcher with a passion, but none of that means the weak and vulnerable in our society don't deserve to be protected and looked after - so none of that in any way should mean I or anyone else shouldn't consider a career in the police.

I understand your prejudices, but we're 30 years on now and it's long past time for blaming one generation for the failings of those who came before and with whom they have no connection whatsoever. It's the worst kind of bigotry.


----------



## CWM3 (Mar 4, 2012)

Wow Mark, talk about putting words in my mouth, did I really say you could not a particular view?

Have it your your way if you really need it that much, but do not misrepresent what someone has said.


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

can i assume you guys won't be sharing a chinese or indian or summat tonight.


----------



## drjam (Apr 7, 2006)

John-H said:


> When you look back at the Thatcher era you can track the demise of the manufacturing sector and the substitution with the service industry - in a10 year period we had a 40% decline in the manufacturing sector and rise of services:


That seems to be a common statement, but a bit simplistic imho and not the partisan issue people make it out to be. Coal mining had been on the decline for decades pre-Thatcher, and manufacturing in absolute value terms of GDP hasn't declined but in relative terms, % of GDP, has (because services grew much faster). And again that has happened pre-Thatcher and beyond, through both colours of government. (And in every western country).
Of course what has declined hugely is employment in manufacturing, because we've gone more into the hi tech stuff, replaced people with robots and so on. The alternative, which people usually avoid and which I doubt any government could have avoided is what labour-intensive manufacturing should and could we have kept, that would successfully compete with China? The same question still holds now, when people say we should manufacture more. More what? The same as Germany perhaps, if we think we can compete in their space. Whatever the solution, we can't just employ people to "make things" unless what they make is competitive in what is now a global market.

Thatcher's failure was how she dealt with this transition, just allowing unemployment to shoot up, with no apparent plan to deal with the social consequences (retraining or whatever), just hoping "market forces" would magically sort it out. 
I grew up in the northwest, so saw the social impacts and am certainly no fan or defender of her legacy, but equally there does seem a good degree of utopian fantasy floating about when people imagine what the UK would have been like had she never existed.


----------



## CWM3 (Mar 4, 2012)

Gazzer said:


> can i assume you guys won't be sharing a chinese or indian or summat tonight.


Only if he brings it to my cell.


----------



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Mark Davies said:


> Rest in peace? Bollocks.


Rust in peace iron lady. :twisted:


----------



## WozzaTT (Jan 15, 2006)

Margaret Thatcher was part of the research team that developed Mr Whippy ice cream. For this we can thank her. If you like Mr Whippy ice cream, of course.


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

drjam said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> > When you look back at the Thatcher era you can track the demise of the manufacturing sector and the substitution with the service industry - in a10 year period we had a 40% decline in the manufacturing sector and rise of services:
> ...


As in everything, there is more detail and I'd agree that technological changes were major influences over industry and indeed it was her lack of care and failure to manage change which made its mark - she encouraged the wrong things with a blind doctrine e.g. market forces as you say. She also took credit for technological improvements as I pointed out and claimed them to be a result of her policy of privitisation. It was her comment about serving chips being equivalent to making microchips which stuck in my mind as an indicator of what she thought other people could do when skilled jobs were lost. Not the German model. She also said _'there's no such thing as society' _and encouraged greed and divide. Who remembers Harry Enfield's 'Look at my wad! Loads of money!' - so many characatures reflecting the result of the Zeitgeist of those in power at the time. Look at the Lawson boon in trippleing of house prices making everyone feel rich but unable to spend it - so much money tied up in inflating the value of property and servicing the resulting debt - money that could have been better invested elsewhere.

Apparently they are going to spend £10 M as a final insult to rub it in.


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

drjam said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> > When you look back at the Thatcher era you can track the demise of the manufacturing sector and the substitution with the service industry - in a10 year period we had a 40% decline in the manufacturing sector and rise of services:
> ...


Thatcher took away any opportunity we might have had to* try to *compete in the changing global market though. I completely agree that some industries would have failed eventually anyway, but through the wholesale destruction of our manufacturing sector she ensured that the potentially successful industries were just as doomed as the potential failures.

We have the benefit of hindsight. We can see which privatised industries are profitable now, so it's not a utopian fantasy to suggest we should have kept them rather than allowing them to fall into foreign ownership. We can also see what happens if you empower banks and remove their regulation.

I don't think Thatcher was evil. I think she completely believed that what she was doing was going to work. The trouble is, the stubbornness, bloodymindedness and unwaivering self-belief that her supporters are so proud of meant that she followed through on those beliefs to the bitter end, no matter who it hurt, no matter how many communities she destroyed. She was always convinced it was ok to do bad things because it would be better in the long run. Now that we know it wasn't better in the long run, she's just left with a legacy of causing pain to large sections of the population.


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

> Any woman who understands the problems of running a home will be nearer to understanding the problems of running a country.
> - Margaret Thatcher





> "No one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions; he had money as well."
> - Margaret Thatcher





> I am extraordinarily patient, provided I get my own way in the end.
> - Margaret Thatcher





> ''She approaches the problem of our country with all the one-dimensional subtlety of a comic strip.'
> - Denis Healey, 1979





> ''She is the Enid Blyton of economics. Nothing must be allowed to spoil her simple plots.'
> - Liberal Democrat peer Lord Holme, 1980





> 'I am thoroughly in favour of Mrs Thatcher's visit to the Falklands. I find a bit of hesitation, though, about her coming back."
> - Lawyer and playwright John Mortimer, 1983


----------



## boyabouttown (Mar 3, 2013)

Demessiah said:


> From what I can see, the only people who have a problem with Thatcher are either commies or wastemen...
> 
> If your industry doenst make money then its not an industry its a charity.
> 
> ...


shouldn't you be at the stadium of light preparing for a relegation battle :mrgreen:


----------



## Demessiah (Jan 27, 2009)

boyabouttown said:


> shouldn't you be at the stadium of light preparing for a relegation battle :mrgreen:


WTF are you on about? Do yourself a favour and put the crackpipe down :evil:


----------



## CWM3 (Mar 4, 2012)

boyabouttown said:


> Demessiah said:
> 
> 
> > From what I can see, the only people who have a problem with Thatcher are either commies or wastemen...
> ...


That final spot will be filled by Stoke, the rest can all stand down and rest easy.


----------



## boyabouttown (Mar 3, 2013)

villa for me


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

WozzaTT said:


> Margaret Thatcher was part of the research team that developed Mr Whippy ice cream. For this we can thank her. If you like Mr Whippy ice cream, of course.


Made from the milk she stole from schoolchildren no doubt


----------



## phope (Mar 26, 2006)

I don't have the link, but posted in Pistonheads apparently



> I love how some posters on here were either not even born in the 70s or were too young to have been aware of the true awfullness that was Great Britain at that time. Yet these people feel able to denounce Mrs Thatcher as roundly as the ex Miners and others who seem to think that they should have been given a job for life, at any cost.
> 
> I was born in 1962, so I remember the 70s and 80s rather well. For those who were not around then, or who have forgotten, let me tell you that the UK was in desperate straites by the time Mr T came to power.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

CWM3 said:


> Wow Mark, talk about putting words in my mouth, did I really say you could not a particular view?
> 
> Have it your your way if you really need it that much, but do not misrepresent what someone has said.


Putting words in your mouth?

"Funny this coming from a copper.. ..short memory IMO"

So, you first express either amusement or incredulity that a police officer might express socialist, anti-Thatcher views. You then make legitimate criticisms of the police involvement in the industrial disputes of the mid-'80s and accuse me of having a 'short memory' - implying I must have somehow forgotten what the police did in order to have the views I have. Or even suggesting I should feel some kind of shame about what was done a decade before I joined the police.Why?

There's absolutely no legitimate reason for making any kind of connection between my political leanings and the fact I choose to serve the public as a police officer - and certainly none for suggesting they are in any way incompatible. If you weren't doing that then what on earth did you think you were doing? Because I can't see how it would be interpreted in any other way.

That I am a police officer is completely irrelevant to the discussion and I resent your prejudiced opinions trying to tar me with some kind of brush that has nothing whatsoever to do with me.

Your comments were out of order and deserved reproach. I'm not 'biting' (often a comment made by people who knew they were out of order trying to pass their indescretion off as a joke) - I'm putting you straight.

But if I've got it wrong why don't you try explaining just exactly what it was you were trying to say?


----------



## CWM3 (Mar 4, 2012)

Obviously even though I did not dispute the fact that of course you are entitled to your own view you still pull the red mist down....obviously if you want to read that much in to it, then do so, no point trying to debate with a brick wall, enjoy your life. :?


----------



## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Peter's repost from Pistonheads pretty much sums up the pro-Thatcher argument that I've been hearing over the last 2 days. Correctly it decries the woeful state of the British economy in the late '70s and uses that for justification of what Thatcher did. It can seem justifiable but it makes one glaring and wholly incorrect presumption - that Thatcher's solution was the *only* solution.

But it was not. Yes, all these problems had to be sorted out someway but there's always more than one way to do anything. The Thatcherite solution was nothing short of brutal. She could not have cared less about the damage wrought to working class communities. In fact she was quite happy for traditional, working-class industries to be obliterated. She wanted a nation run by the financial sector and service industries - a nation of middle-class shopkeepers just like herself. There was a clear belief that Britain could survive as an economy almost entirely by providing financial services to the rest of the world, hence the deregulation of the banks and the Big Bang. We didn't need industry any more and if those communities that had once relied on it were left behind then tough luck. Cities like Liverpool were to be abandoned to 'managed decline'. The only advice people got was to 'get on your bike'. So men from the Yorkshire pit-faces were all supposed to go down to London and become stock-brokers, were they?

Of course we saw in 2008 exactly where the Big Bang led and now know it was economic suicide to abandon manufacturing and think as a nation we could make a living from just holding doors open for people. It was a fundamentally flawed ideology pursued with the zealous vigour of religion.

Yes, the power of the unions - the power of the working masses of this country - had grown to the point of being able to bring down governments. The Tories - the traditional political wing of the privilaged, landed elite - were not only taking on the miners or even just the unions as a whole. They were systematically and quite deliberately destroying the working class. So succesful were they in that goal they even persuaded New Labour to adopt much of that ideology. Remember "We're all middle-class now"? But we're not.

There's a very substantial part of our society that has been left behind and who, over the past 10 years have been systematically demonized by politicians and press alike (both groups highly dominated by privilaged, well-off, middle-class people). We are now told we have sink estates awash with lazy, layabout, benefit-scrounging chavs. We are being told that their poverty is all down to their own inadequacies, because if we become convinced of that then governments can be absolved of any responsibilty for doing anything about it.

But the reality is that these people are where they are because they were abandoned by Thatcher and successive governments since. The industries and employers that were at the heart of their communities were taken away from them and virtually nothing was done to replace those jobs. They were just left to rot.

That's the sorry legacy of Margaret Thatcher, and it's no surprise that her millionaire, stock-broker successor has continued the attack on these people as soon as her party got back into office. The simple fact is as long as their privilage is protected and perpetuated they couldn't give a shit about anyone else. They would keep it all for themselves if they could, but they appreciate they are in a democracy so they give just enough to just enough people to win an election with the minority needed in a first-past-the-post electoral system. Unfortunately there's just enough people as selfish as they are to let them do it.


----------



## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

CWM3 said:


> Obviously even though I did not dispute the fact that of course you are entitled to your own view you still pull the red mist down....obviously if you want to read that much in to it, then do so, no point trying to debate with a brick wall, enjoy your life. :?


Yes, just exactly the response I was expecting. You can't step up to the challenge of justifying your comments or providing another interpretation of what you said that wouldn't attract the offence caused (so presumably there isn't one), but nor are you big enough to apologise for them either.

I didn't accuse you of saying I wasn't allowed to have any particular view - I asked you the question of whether I wasn't allowed to hold my views as an invitation to you to explain or justify your comment.



Mark Davies said:


> And as a result I'm not allowed to hold a particular view, even if it happens to agree with yours?


That I am a police officer is totally irrelevant to my political views and this debate. That you bring it into the debate displays a bigotted prejudism that I find offensive. That's the issue that you're ducking away from. My response isn't 'red mist' - it's in my nauture to stand up and challenge offensive behaviour. It's my vocation after all. It just happens that in this instance that offensive behaviour was directed at me.


----------



## phope (Mar 26, 2006)

I like to get my reading from varied sources and viewpoints, and here's something thought provoking, from the Guardian no less (which can hardly be described as a raving right wing tabloid)



> *Britain without Margaret Thatcher*
> 
> What if Margaret Thatcher had not fought and won the general election in 1979? What would the 80s have been like without the Falklands war, the miners' strike and privatisation? Novelist Philip Hensher imagines a decade of nationalisation, nuclear disarmament and state-run pubs


http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013 ... t-thatcher


----------



## Hilly10 (Feb 4, 2004)

Without her guiding hand this country would have gone bust. She did what no other politician had the balls to do. Get over it. You might not have agreed with her politics but it needed to be done.

The labour solution would have made things worse cower to the unions to get the block vote. No MAGGIE busted the barstewards and good on her. Scargill would have bought this country to its knees if we had let him. Me I would have shot him him on his soap box along with Red Robbo. :x :x


----------



## boyabouttown (Mar 3, 2013)

state run pubs, is that a good or bad thing.


----------



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

phope said:


> I don't have the link, but posted in Pistonheads apparently
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is the crux of it. The country had manufacturing industry run by incompetent idiots who failed to make products that people wanted. Thatcher's answer was to shut it all down.

The legacy of this fundamental inability to manage by the middle class and then Thatcher's policies is a country bereft of industrial strength. They were both arrogant enough to first ignore the actual issues and chose instead to kill it. The end result is a workforce made redundant (they can only make what they're told to make) and whole communities reliant on that manufacturing forgotten about.

On the bright side it's great that we can all get phones, buy stocks and shares and all the other things that Thatcher enabled. But all this stuff is made abroad when it should be made here. We have (had) a brilliant and skilled workforce that is now gone and wasted. It's all very sad.


----------



## phope (Mar 26, 2006)

I disagree that there is no skilled workforce or manufacturing.

Every single day, I deal with millionaires - some 'just' making their first...others making their hundredth or more. Many of these guys (mostly males) have got there simply through hard work, imaginative thinking, financial backing and a desire to set up their own businesses.

Up in this neck of the woods near Aberdeen, much of the wealth these guys generate for themselves and others comes from oil industry engineering or services related to the oil industry - some truly world class engineering which is being exported round the globe to various locations. Aberdeen is now a global hub for the energy industry, with huge amounts of R&D being carried out here.

I could rattle off dozens of names of local companies, whether small, medium or large, that have made their owners hugely wealthy, and have made their skilled engineering employees extremely well paid as well


----------



## drjam (Apr 7, 2006)

rustyintegrale said:


> But all this stuff is made abroad when it should be made here. We have (had) a brilliant and skilled workforce that is now gone and wasted. It's all very sad.


Again, I'm going to disagree here. We're the 7th biggest manufacturing economy in the world, we clearly do still make stuff and with a highly skilled workforce. In fact that's part of the problem, we have manufacturing which is high skill but few people, and lost the sectors which were labour intensive and manual. That's happened almost everywhere as these jobs have gone east, so the presence of Thatcher wasn't the determining factor. What she can be blamed for, and shouldn't have needed hindsight for, is leaving those whose jobs were lost to fend for themselves in such a heartless manner. Her main legacy is in failing to manage and mitigate, and give a toss about, the social impact.

Slightly unrelated, but has come up, is the foreign ownership issue, along with the question of what individual choices people make. For example cars, particularly relevant on a forum where people have chosen to buy a car made by Hungarians (?) for a German company. If jobs are the biggest problem we have (and I think they are) why do people on here give such short shrift to the idea of buying a honda or a nissan or a toyota, given that it would keep people directly and indirectly employed in Swindon, Sunderland or derby? Or a ford, land rover or whatever? How many people specifically look for the tractor mark or union jack logos on stuff at the supermarket, stuff that employs people here, as opposed to just buying whatever is cheapest, then going on about how we don't make anything or benefit scroungers or whatever their political bugbear is? Obviously you haven't much chance of buying a UK made tv, but I do despair at how little effort some people make to buy British. 
Oh and to pre-empt the inevitable "but they're foreign owned" response on the car example, fair enough, but ask yourself how much that matters if they are creating jobs and income here. For example compared to Dyson, which most people would regard as a UK success, but whose labour intensive manufacturing is done abroad? In this day and age ownership doesn't mean local jobs, and personally I would take the jobs as more socially valuable.


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Peter's repost from Pistonheads is blinkered, exaggerated, biassed and erronious. It's the usual political speech/monalogue trite nonsense - start off with a valid point of justification (power cuts) on which we can all agree, exaggerate it out of all proportion (this was only a short period), throw in other items not actually connected at all (technological improvements claimed as political achievement) and hope they stick, shrug off opposing points (mismanaging change - a loveable mistake), repeat until the audience is either fired up or disarmed, stand back and hope for applause. Not worth the cut and paste. It serves only to polarise divide and perpetuate misunderstanding. How can we progress when such crass analysis is entertained?


----------



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

phope said:


> I disagree that there is no skilled workforce or manufacturing.


I didn't say there was no work force or manufacturing. I said that the workforce and manufacturing we were involved in back then had gone.

There will always be niche manufacturers for niche products and sectors. But what we had here was the killing off of whole swathes of industry. Where's the car industry we once had and Germany retains for example?

I agree that the unions were causing whole heaps of trouble but that was because there were no negotiations. In fact we're now in a position where all the good the unions had done is being undone now. Corners are cut everywhere, people are paid as little as possible for the jobs they do and as a result of that they have no pride in their work. Shareholders are all too powerful and the bean counters hold the reins. Bottom line is king and sod the rest.

What happened to the money made by selling off council house stock? It wasn't reinvested in replacement housing that's for sure, so we have a social housing shortage.

The banks have failed in the past few years but we don't see them being closed down. Instead they are given taxpayers money to prop them up. Why was that not afforded to our heavy industry? Not cost effective? Someone has to make things and Germany seems to do alright out of it. Maybe it's because they design and build good products? A ridiculous statement I'm sure... :roll:

Why are nearly all our utilities owned by foreign companies? We are held to ransom. Why are the railways run by so many different companies? The reasoning has always been to open them up to competition but are any routes open to more than one company?

Our infrastructure is crumbling yet we pay billions in tax and have a huge unemployment problem. Cannot the two be worked to cancel each other out?


----------



## phope (Mar 26, 2006)

The original posters description of his/her experiences are as valid as the experience of someone else with a different point of view

I never said I agreed with all that was said, but to dismiss it out of hand as crass and invalid is not appropriate either


----------



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

phope said:


> The original posters description of his/her experiences are as valid as the experience of someone else with a different point of view
> 
> I never said I agreed with all that was said, but to dismiss it out of hand as crass and invalid is not appropriate either


I take it you're referring to the post above mine? :lol:


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

phope said:


> The original posters description of his/her experiences are as valid as the experience of someone else with a different point of view


Not really. If they describe life in the 70's innacurately then their experiences are less valid than someone who describes it accurately. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that doesn't mean peoples opinions can't be questioned and it doesn't mean an opinion can't be wrong (despite the belief some people have that sticking "IMHO" at the end of a sentence means no one can disagree with them).

- 3 day weeks were only in effect for 2 months at the start of 1974.
- The gravediggers strike only affected Liverpool and Tameside in 1979, 4 years after Thatcher took office
- Google images does indeed show piles of rubbish in Leicester Square, althought they are barely 1 storey high, not 4.

Regardless, the entire post was based on the premise that there was only one solution to the problems faced by the country. More than half of the text simply described the post-apocalyptic nightmare of the 70's, in the hope that 'proving' the country was on the brink of colapsing back in to the dark ages is all it takes to justify Thatchers approach to 'fixing' things.


----------



## drjam (Apr 7, 2006)

rustyintegrale said:


> Where's the car industry we once had and Germany retains for example?


 :-? 
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-buyers-guide/cbg-cars-made-in-britain.html
Three quarters of a million people are employed directly in it or in its supply chain.
It's a massive contribution to the economy.
Sure it's not as big as Germany's, sure it's not all "UK owned" (whatever that really means; and if it was, would it keep more people in work? Is ownership more important than employment?). 
But it's just a complete fallacy to say we don't have one.
What manufacturing would you like to see us do that matters to you, if this doesn't?

Most of your other points I completely agree with. 
For sure there are a bunch of other industries in which either they were privatised without producing competition (railways the obvious one, it's not like I arrive at the platform and can choose from three different train operators), were sold off on what turned out to be the cheap (though I guess hindsight is a wonderful thing), were sold off when they could perhaps be considered vital, strategic public goods where governments should retain price and other control (water? maybe parts of the energy business?). The housing bubble has been a disaster - enriching a bunch of people for doing no work other than buying the right place and right time, while making housing unaffordable for those coming later. And so on...


----------



## jbell (May 15, 2006)

Well she is Marmite and always will be.

An interesting little story from the MB forum



> I must just pass a little story on if I may . I have already mentioned on here that the wife and I had a retail business in Cudworth ,a village in the heart of the former South Yorks mining area .
> 
> One morning in the early 2000's, a guy came in, not a regular customer, came to the counter with a few items including a newspaper. On the front page of his paper was a picture of Margaret Thatcher, I cannot recall the subject of the news item. Anyway, this chap passed some small talk with us and tapping the front page of the paper said "best Prime Minister this country ever had, she was!" and picking up his goods, headed for the door. As he went out, he paused, turned and said" and I was a miner, pal !".


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

jbell said:


> Well she is Marmite and always will be.
> 
> An interesting little story from the MB forum
> 
> ...


or maybe a scab!


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

Hilly10 said:


> Without her guiding hand this country would have gone bust. She did what no other politician had the balls to do. Get over it. You might not have agreed with her politics but it needed to be done.
> 
> The labour solution would have made things worse cower to the unions to get the block vote. No MAGGIE busted the barstewards and good on her. Scargill would have bought this country to its knees if we had let him. Me I would have shot him him on his soap box along with Red Robbo. :x :x


I remember rushing my seriously ill 2 yr old daughter to hospital, to be told, sorry we closed the a&e; back in the mbulance on way to another hospital, radio call comes in, no bed; ambuance turned and headed to another hosptial 20 miles away, 5 miles out, radio call, bed filled;ambulance turns and head to another hospital now one hour and 50 miles away from where we originally started. By the time we got there my little girl had died; rushed into a&e worked on and brought back again (thank god). she lay in a drug induced coma for 4 weeks on a ventilator. She was eventually moved to a ward full of adults because there were no beds on the childrens ward; the place resembled a hungarian orphanage. A few years later my daughter started school; she sat in a crumbling classroom sharing a dog eared overused book with three of her class mates, because the school had had its funding cut and couldnt afford to decorate or buy enough of books. 
This country is full of stories like mine, many of them didnt end as well as mine did. So dont tell me that Thatcher was great for this country because what you are really saying is that thatcher was great for you and feck the rest of us, It was people like you and that attitude who allowed her to dismantle rights that had been fought for for over 100 years; she waged war not on unions, but on the men and women who were members of them and anyone else she could feck over (her own country men and women) to the benefit of her capatalist masters. Dont you remember the riots on the streets? Hiding the wounded soldiers in the memorial service: her ministers 'get on your bike view' and find jobs that dont exist? So I have already raised a glass and I will no doubt raise a few more at the passing of that evil bitch - if there is a hell then she is definatley there and long may she roast, soon to be accompanied by the rest of her evil party and hpefully those who selfishly supported her.


----------



## CWM3 (Mar 4, 2012)

Even from the after life people are still losing their jobs over her

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22124015


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

CWM3 said:


> Even from the after life people are still losing their jobs over her
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22124015


kin hell talk about having a death wish...........what a plank of the highest order :?


----------



## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Gazzer said:


> kin hell talk about having a death wish...........what a plank of the highest order :?


Indeed - how dare he have an opinion and voice it! I mean, where the hell did he think he was? In a free-speaking, open democracy in the 21st century? Fool! I'm sure everyone who has expressed anti-Thatcherite sentiments here expects to be sacked as a result. He should have known better.

Okay, his comments cross the lines of taste perhaps but where would we be if everyone who ever said anything crass or controversial lost their livlihood as a result? Yes, he chose to resign but I can be confident he has done so because he was told even before any kind of investigation had been carried out that he was going to be sacked anyway. The police are supposed to be the defenders of freedom and democracy for our society, yet how ironic it is that they treat their staff in such a totalitarian fashion.


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

oh come on Mark, as a serving officer with an upcoming state funeral he must have known what would happen!!! i'm not saying i condone it here..........just what a pratt for ruining his own career by careless tweets.


----------



## drjam (Apr 7, 2006)

Mark Davies said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > kin hell talk about having a death wish...........what a plank of the highest order :?
> ...


Hmmm, if it was just some comment on Thatcher then I'd tend to agree. But I don't know what the rules are on wishing other, currently-living people die soon? I expect that's where he crossed the line. Even if it doesn't count as incitement, it's a bit like me telling the world that I'd like to see the death of the CEO, CFO and divisional director of the company I work for and then being surprised to be told that maybe I'd be better off working elsewhere...


----------



## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

drjam said:


> it's a bit like me telling the world thta I'd like to see the death of the CEO, CFO and divisional director of the company I work for and then being surprised to be told that maybe I'd be better off working elsewhere...


But it's not. You have a direct connection with those people - you work with them. Having expressed you want someone to be dead it can be hard to have an ongoing working relationship with them. Now we don't know exactly what department this officer worked in, and given he's from the Met it is _possible_ he's in direct contact with politicians, but otherwise he's talking about people he has no direct involvement with. He's not bringing the police as an institution into disrepute - what he's voicing is quite clearly his own, personal opinion.

I guess my point is there are people everywhere voicing their opinions on Thatcher, saying they are glad she's dead, having parties in the streets - yet _none_ of them (let's be frank) would expect to get sacked because of it. We are in a political democracy with freedom of speech enshrined in our law - yet the very organisation charged with upholding that very law seeks to censure its own staff and prevent them from exercising their legal, democratic right to hold an opinion and voice it.

If he'd made the same comments to his mates down the local pub with a pint in his hand would you still expect him to get sacked? If so why shouldn't police officers enjoy the same basic human rights as everyone else? But if not then in principle how is what he did do in any way materially different? Fine, on Twitter it reaches a wider audience an is more durable, but at the end of the day it is still someone voicing an opinion in public - as is their democratic right. I've not read anything that suggests he's done it in anything more than a personal capacity - not through a police Twitter account - so what has it got to do with his job?

You can argue that police officers should be impartial - but that's ridiculous. We all have opinions and we all have views - we are human beings - you can't seek to control the way people think. All that is important is that police officers discharge their duties with impartiality. Just because someone has made their views public does not mean they will not carry out their duties properly. All this is about is senior officers being uncomfortable with behaviour of their subordinates that they cannot control and therefore they have always sought to suppress their officers. That's all this is.


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Why say a few words when a thousand will do (joke I think) :wink:

What the policeman said was vile end of and anyone defending it shows very poor judgement in my view.

I always found my too much to say brothers and sisters (Socialist Worker) boring at The Jam/Style Coincil gigs I attended and still do now.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

Mark Davies said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > kin hell talk about having a death wish...........what a plank of the highest order :?
> ...


Yes Mark, and indeed her comments crossed the lines of taste many a time and she didnt give a toss who she upset. I think it is a disgrace that this has happened. Would he have gone had he said something positive about her? So its only negative views we are no longer permitted to have then? Half a nation can despise the woman and they still have a state funeral for her; well ding dong the witch is dead will be playing very loudly in my head at that time and I dont give a toss who knows it.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

jamman said:


> Why say a few words when a thousand will do (joke I think) :wink:
> 
> What the policeman said was vile end of and anyone defending it shows very poor judgement in my view.
> 
> I always found my too much to say brothers and sisters (Socialist Worker) boring at The Jam/Style Coincil gigs I attended and still do now.


Your opinion and you are welcome to it James. Shame that those with opposite views arew called names like 'vile' for having them - it is as though she is still here,and shows poor judgement on your part in my view; she would have loved the fact that people were at eachothers throats, for that was when she was most comfortable.


----------



## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

jamman said:


> What the policeman said was vile end of and anyone defending it shows very poor judgement in my view.


I'm not defending what he said - I'm just defending his right to say it. *A right enshrined within the law of this country* under Article 10 of the European Convention of Human Rights, enacted into UK law by The Human Rights Act 1998.

Why doesn't he get the protection of that law like any other UK citizen?


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

BrianR said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > Why say a few words when a thousand will do (joke I think) :wink:
> ...


It is just that my mate my opinion or rather view that is all. 

I do find some of the things being banded about a bit low/vile.

It's been a standard joke for a long while that most of my old school mates wre very left wing and I wasn't always made for good conversations over many pints especially when you are dealing with someone as pig headed and stubborn as ME :wink:


----------



## CWM3 (Mar 4, 2012)

Now I am confused here, serving police officer or not, he has tweeted his preference to see the current PM, Chancellor and Home Secretary dead. Maybe its throw away, maybe he actually means it, we don't know.
Its passed off as just his own personal opinion.

Guy sits in Robin Hood Airport, and its closed due to snow and he tweets 
"Crap! Robin Hood airport is closed. You've got a week and a bit to get your shit together, otherwise I'm blowing the airport sky high!!"
He is then arrested under Terrorism charges and convicted, after a long battle its overturned.

Seems the Police thought it important to arrest him, when in reality most normal level headed human beings can see its just a joke. In fact I guess it was just his own personal opinion at the time when he was sitting there.

Not quite sure where any of us know where we stand any more, in this slavishly policed PC world.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

jamman said:


> BrianR said:
> 
> 
> > jamman said:
> ...


LOL I was the one playing Billy Bragg records peeing my mates off.


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

CWM3 said:


> Now I am confused here, serving police officer or not, he has tweeted his preference to see the current PM, Chancellor and Home Secretary dead. Maybe its throw away, maybe he actually means it, we don't know.
> Its passed off as just his own personal opinion.
> 
> Guy sits in Robin Hood Airport, and its closed due to snow and he tweets
> ...


Well now if you cannot see the difference, then I have to say I think you are very blinkered indeed. Threatening to blow up an airport and just saying I hope someone dies are poles apart tbh. This officer screwed himself basically, I do wonder how it got out that he was an officer....unless he divulged that info himself maybe.


----------



## igotone (Mar 10, 2010)

Sgt Scott was a fool and a not very bright one by the look of it. It's never been acceptable for coppers to take an active partisan role in politics, and by tweeting the remarks he did he was doing just that, totally forgetting that he would still be a serving office regardless of which party was in power. The police are expected to be neutral in lots of political confrontations including demonstrations and picketing etc., and quite rightly so.

Yet another victim of using the internet and failing to engage brain. :roll:


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

igotone said:


> Sgt Scott was a fool and a not very bright one by the look of it. It's never been acceptable for coppers to take an active partisan role in politics, and by tweeting the remarks he did he was doing just that, totally forgetting that he would still be a serving office regardless of which party was in power. The police are expected to be neutral in lots of political confrontations including demonstrations and picketing etc., and quite rightly so.
> 
> Yet another victim of using the internet and failing to engage brain. :roll:


+1 so very true


----------



## andyTT180 (Mar 19, 2010)

I've not read through this thread fully but I'll tell you something the miners and the mines themselves made their own fate the miners all wanted something for nothing, particularly given that salary wise they earned much more than equivilant heavy industries and all this while the mines haemorrhaged circa 2 billion pounds a year in losses! Thinking of this with a business head on, business which make large losses get closed down.... Simple as!!

I for one think she was the greatest politician of recent times, we need someone like her who's hard, tough and willing to do the right thing!

When I see all these people partying the street I can't help but think what a bunch of hideous scummy scroungers a small percentile of the folk in this country are, if I wanted to party in the street over someone's death I sure as hell couldn't because I work........

On another point people are saying Thatcher was the devil and partying in the street yet there's no parties in the street when a real 'evil' person such as Myra Hindley dies?!? Begs the question really, do you not all think? [smiley=gossip.gif]


----------



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

andyTT180 said:


> I've not read through this thread fully but I'll tell you something the miners and the mines themselves made their own fate the miners all wanted something for nothing, particularly given that salary wise they earned much more than equivilant heavy industries and all this while the mines haemorrhaged circa 2 billion pounds a year in losses! Thinking of this with a business head on, business which make large losses get closed down.... Simple as!!
> 
> I for one think she was the greatest politician of recent times, we need someone like her who's hard, tough and willing to do the right thing!
> 
> ...


Are you old enough to vote?


----------



## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Gazzz,,, it was not all my fault,, ( and i am on a new build gas plant in shetland , not off shore ),
just read throo all the posts here,, quite a slog after a 12 hour shift, but well worth the effort , i dont have much to add as most has been eloquently expressed here already,,,, suffice to say that i hated the bitch,, rot in hell ?, i would not say , hopefully i have a more charitable persuation that what she had.... 
a few comments on some posts tho i cannot resist
falklands ,, she " retook " them for the benefit of the oil companies who will eventually reap the awards of brittish territorial waters,,,,,,,not for the poor mistaken fools who live there
Mark D, as usual ( well mostly :wink: ) has his finger on the pulse of many of societies problems and states the case for anti maggy sentiment most eloquently,,, but despite his assertion that the current police force , and him included, cannot and should not be blamed for the sins of their forefathers, i suspect that they,,and lamentably himself , would behave in a similar manner if called upon / ordered to do so....
quite how any woman nowadays can hold her as any paragon of female equality or any other admirable female trait , is beyond me......
i saw a few recent pictures of her in the press recently,, i am glad to say that she looked dreadfull and seems that the badness within her had taken its toll...
MAGGIE MAGGIE MAGGIE,,,,,, OUT OUT OUT !!!!!!!!!


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

roddy said:


> Gazzz,,, it was not all my fault,, ( and i am on a new build gas plant in shetland , not off shore ),
> just read throo all the posts here,, quite a slog after a 12 hour shift, but well worth the effort , i dont have much to add as most has been eloquently expressed here already,,,, suffice to say that i hated the bitch,, rot in hell ?, i would not say , hopefully i have a more charitable persuation that what she had....
> a few comments on some posts tho i cannot resist
> falklands ,, she " retook " them for the benefit of the oil companies who will eventually reap the awards of brittish territorial waters,,,,,,,not for the poor mistaken fools who live there
> ...


get ya facts straight ya jock, falklands hadn't even had oil exploration done at the conflict point. (whats the food like bud) i did hear that go back 10 plus it was steak steaks steaks mmmmmmm


----------



## andyTT180 (Mar 19, 2010)

rustyintegrale said:


> andyTT180 said:
> 
> 
> > I've not read through this thread fully but I'll tell you something the miners and the mines themselves made their own fate the miners all wanted something for nothing, particularly given that salary wise they earned much more than equivilant heavy industries and all this while the mines haemorrhaged circa 2 billion pounds a year in losses! Thinking of this with a business head on, business which make large losses get closed down.... Simple as!!
> ...


Are you not too old to drive a chav'd up TT with black badges and rotten purple PP's?


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Andy 1 Rich 0


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

jamman said:


> Andy 1 Rich 0


 :lol: :lol: :lol: +1......


----------



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

andyTT180 said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> > andyTT180 said:
> ...


 :lol: :lol: Touche. Probably, yes. :wink:


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

```
[quote="andyTT180"]I've not read through this thread fully but I'll tell you something the miners and the mines themselves made their own fate the miners all wanted something for nothing, particularly given that salary wise they earned much more than equivilant heavy industries and all this while the mines haemorrhaged circa 2 billion pounds a year in losses! Thinking of this with a business head on, business which make large losses get closed down.... Simple as!!
```
Rather than now when we spend billions importing coal



> I for one think she was the greatest politician of recent times, we need someone like her who's hard, tough and willing to do the right thing!


The point is that she only did the right things to benefit herself and her party. Do you know anyone as hated as her? I dont



> When I see all these people partying the street I can't help but think what a bunch of hideous scummy scroungers a small percentile of the folk in this country are, if I wanted to party in the street over someone's death I sure as hell couldn't because I work........


The partoes in Liverpool began when office workers in the city centre finished for the day, instead of going home they partied at the news. So not scummy scroungers at all, rather honest working people with half a brain and politically aware.



> On another point people are saying Thatcher was the devil and partying in the street yet there's no parties in the street when a real 'evil' person such as Myra Hindley dies?!? Begs the question really, do you not all think? [smiley=gossip.gif]


[/quote]

Or it tells you that Thatcher was even less popular than Myra Hindley, which of course she was


----------



## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

mighTy Tee said:


> She was the right person at the right time. She inherited a country being held to ransom by the unions (the winter of discontent 78/79) where hardly a day went by without some major leviathan of a company being affected by a strike. Inflation was running in double figures, we had shortages of everything, Petrol, Sugar, Toilet Rolls etc, whilst the dead werent buried and our rubbish was sat in the street uncollected. The country was a mess and most of it caused by weak government and the all too powerful unions. Things had to change.
> 
> As a result we may have lost many major loss making traditional industries and the all powerful unions were brought back in check and she promoted free enterprise. Nearly every small company in existence today is in existence today because of the opportunity provided back in the 1980's when UK plc was brought back from the brink.
> 
> Yes she made some mistakes (who doesnt make mistakes) but she was the greatest Prime Minister of my life time and long may she rest in peace.


Spot on.

Great Lady.

Made some mistakes but who hasn't. I got on my bike twice, as Tebbitt suggested, once in mid 80's and again in early 90's. Found alternative work, did 3 jobs at one time to survive, but stayed in work and never claimed anything.

We need a leader with balls like her now, not these Tory / Labour politicals from the same schools who haven't got a clue what to do and change minds depending which way the wind was blowing..


----------



## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

Demessiah said:


> From what I can see, the only people who have a problem with Thatcher are either commies or wastemen...
> 
> If your industry doenst make money then its not an industry its a charity.
> 
> ...


And, she got reelected twice, so the majority must have wanted her.
In secret ballots as well, not standing in full view of union commissars and having to raise hands to vote


----------



## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

jamman said:


> Why say a few words when a thousand will do (joke I think) :wink:
> 
> What the policeman said was vile end of and anyone defending it shows very poor judgement in my view.
> 
> I always found my too much to say brothers and sisters (Socialist Worker) boring at The Jam/Style Coincil gigs I attended and still do now.


  socialist worker  now there's another interesting debate...


----------



## andyTT180 (Mar 19, 2010)

> Rather than now when we spend billions importing coal quote]
> 
> Irrelevant our country should act as business, cut the fat (the only business which should be paid for by the tax payer with no return is the NHS).
> 
> ...


Well I was witness to the "parties" in Glasgow and it was all "anti-capitalist" campaigners and people in shellsuits trying to start fights. Politically aware is something which my friend you are most definitely not.



> Or it tells you that Thatcher was even less popular than Myra Hindley, which of course she was quote]


[/quote]

So you agree that a politician done worse for this country than a mass murderer? I think statements like this are pretty pathetic and you should really be ashamed of yourself as a person if you agree with this :x


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

> Well I was witness to the "parties" in Glasgow and it was all "anti-capitalist" campaigners and people in shellsuits trying to start fights. Politically aware is something which my friend you are most definitely not.


You were out there partying yourself then? Sorry let me be clear; Wehn I used the term politically aware I was reffering to th fact that you said 'MT only ever did anything to benefit the country'. That says a lot about your awareness chap and I will leave it at that. I parties, I didnt fight or wear a shell suit or am a politcal activist and neither are most people. They are simply united in their hatred for a monster of the modern times.



> So you agree that a politician done worse for this country than a mass murderer? I think statements like this are pretty pathetic and you should really be ashamed of yourself as a person if you agree with this :x


[/quote]

How many men women and children suffered as a result of her policies? How many suicides? How many wasted lives? How many children lost because the beds didnt exist in hospitals? How many old people dying in the cold being told to wear warmer clothing if they couldnt afford their bills. How many screaming patients die on underfunded hospital ward? Oh yes, she was much worse than Myra Hindley by quite a few levels.The fact you kiss her arse says much about your awareness 'my friend'.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

> And, she got reelected twice, so the majority must have wanted her.
> In secret ballots as well, not standing in full view of union commissars and having to raise hands to vote


[/quote]

Yes, because she had stacked the deck by skewing the voting boundaries, which were changed by labour and which the tories are now trying to change back. Something honest about standin g with your mates and raising your hand, rather than a sneaky triop to a ballot box, saying you will do one thing but doing another. I have no doubt that you benefitted mate and is why you are like some brainless admirer following the politically correct crowd. People on the other side of the fence couldnt care less what the people on your side of the fence think. Ding dong the witch is dead and now on gas mark 7 for about a thousand years.


----------



## Nyxx (May 1, 2012)

My god talk about blinkered vision.

*This is a perfect reason why you should never talk about politics or religion.*


----------



## Nyxx (May 1, 2012)

BrianR said:


> she was much worse than Myra Hindley by quite a few levels.


Speechless.


----------



## andyTT180 (Mar 19, 2010)

I didn't agree with everything she done by a long stretch! It's not even worth continuing a conversation with someone who thinks "she was worse than Myra Hindley by quite a few levels" an absolutely disgusting statement. Putting politics aside I think you should remove and apologise for that frankly awful post, I'm gobsmacked someone would say that!


----------



## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

Nyxx said:


> BrianR said:
> 
> 
> > she was much worse than Myra Hindley by quite a few levels.
> ...


+1


----------



## Hilly10 (Feb 4, 2004)

jonah said:


> Nyxx said:
> 
> 
> > BrianR said:
> ...


With that quote Brian you offend her family deeply. You are way over the bounds of human decency :x :x


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Look at the temperature of this debate. Is it any wonder? Never before has a political leader of this country created such divide in society, due to a complete lack of care in their duty to the people in their charge in managing the changes presided over.

Being in charge of her government for so long meant that she had an enourmous total effect on millins of lives over a sustained period with policy changes that still leave their scars today, both on the country and the lives of its people, some of whom did not survive the change she wrought due to the poverty and despair she plunged them into. Her lack of care for the millions she disadvantaged is stark.

She doubled the divide between rich and poor in her time, tried to hide the increase in unemployment by shifting people onto disability allowance, sold off the council housing stock and made it illegal for councils to spend the money raised on new stock, increased the money tied up in housing and unproductive activity, sold off the family silver with her privitisation policies, encouraged greed and materialism - the list goes on and even today her party on the day of her death introduced a swaythe of changes to disadvantage the poor and advantage the rich, with bedroom taxes and cuts in the top tax rate.

Why are tax payers required by this government to, in effect, pay for an enourmous state funeral for someone whom it is SO widely recognised caused SO much division? She is no Wiston Churchill whom the whole country respected due to surviving WW2. If she had had a quiet family funeral that would have been another matter deserving of respect. Make no mistake, this is a party political funeral and it should be no surprise if half the country show their contempt.


----------



## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

roddy said:


> but despite his assertion that the current police force , and him included, cannot and should not be blamed for the sins of their forefathers, i suspect that they,,and lamentably himself , would behave in a similar manner if called upon / ordered to do so....


It's a really good point. We're in much the same position as the military - you sign up for the job but you don't get the choice of how you are deployed. Our brave soldiers who went to Iraq or who are currently in Afghanistan may not agree with the reason they are there but that's where they have been told to go and they have a job to do.

In similar fashion if I get sent to police a protest I'm there to keep the peace. I may completely agree with the cause being fought for but order still needs to be maintained. I've got to say, I have few difficulties with the idea of 'direct action'. There are many examples in history where positive political change only came about because people brought attention to the cause by breaking the law - the suffragette movement for the womens' vote being a prime example. Therefore I'd have to agree that in the right circumstances breaking the law is a legitimate political strategy. But of course it only works if you get arrested doing it, so I have no problem with making the arrests - it's what the person involved was wanting to achieve in the first place, after all.

The difference with the miners' strike was the manner in which that was done - the almost gleeful enthusiasm for exceptional violence. I'd like to think we have a much different police force now. We are a different generation and like all the rest of society have different attitudes on politics, race, sexual orientation, gender and all other social matters that are very much different now than 30 years ago - including the use of appropriate force by the police. Yes, someone is going to try and make a comparison with the Ian Tomlinson incident, but that was the actions of a single officer and not the ranks of baton wielding or mounted officers charging the lines in something sickly reminiscent of the Peterloo Massacre. They're quite different.

So I wouldn't expect to be ordered to act in the manner they did during that strike. If it ever came to the unlikely event of being ordered to do such a thing would I refuse? Do you know, I think I probably would - but that's not entirely due to making a moral stand. There's already precious little keeping me in the job as it is, so it actually wouldn't be that tough a decision to make. I think it would simply be the last straw that persuaded me to hand in my resignation, but it would be my revulsion of what was done during the miners' strike and the part the police played in that which would make my mind up for me.

And just to address this horror at Brian's suggestion that Thatcher was worse than Hindley the point needs to be reinforced that many dozens if not hundreds of people no doubt took their own lives as a direct result of Thatcher's callous political actions. A 2002 study showed that suicide rates were 20% higher under Thatcher than subsequently under Blair - around 1000 extra deaths. She *knew* she was destroying communities and people's lives. She *knew* the despair that she caused (ever seen Boys From The Black Stuff?). Those who were there to remember it will tell you of the endemic despair that was a plague in the unemployment ravaged towns of the old industrial north. Lives were ruined and lives were lost. Thatcher knew this and at any point she could have halted her onslought - but she didn't because she just didn't care. Okay, unlike Hindley she never killed anyone with her own hands, but then I doubt Hitler ever turned the valves of the gas chambers either yet that doesn't absolve him of guilt, does it? Thatcher wasn't Hitler of course (at least she didn't directly order peoples' executions) but nevertheless she was still directly responsible not only for a great deal of misery but actual loss of life. Brian's credible point is that Thatcher was arguably responsible for far more peoples' deaths than Hindley ever was. It's the people whose blank refusal, through their ideological fanaticism for Thatcherism, to recognise that sad fact who are the ones who deserve outraged responsees - not Brian.

I suspect this 'disgust' being expressed by Thatcher's supporters with the 'bad taste' being displayed is little more than a defensive mechanism. All these people who extoll her because of the benefits they personally enjoyed through her policies are perhaps finally, through seeing the exceptional levels of anger still displayed even 30 years later, coming to appreciate how the good fortune of a few was built on the absolute misery of millions. A touch of guilt? I'd hope so.


----------



## Nyxx (May 1, 2012)

Mark Davies said:


> I suspect this 'disgust' being expressed by Thatcher's supporters with the 'bad taste' being displayed is little more than a defensive mechanism.


What a load of sh!it
I voted Lib/dem last time and before that I voted for good old tony. "Thatcher's supporters" my f00king arse. 
Most here by the looks of it live by " I've voted XXX all my life" ..........BS
I can have an open mind and have no party a legions.

Are we going to call Tony worse than Ian Brady for the troops that where killed because someone does not think it was a lawful "war"

Just how low and twisted do you go?

Like I said before
*This is a perfect reason why you should never talk about politics or religion.*

and am not going to any more, out of here.


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Every political leader or dictator, no matter where, stands to be judged and face praise or opprobrium of the people they affected.






Whilst some did not do things directly some did it their way and will be judged accordingly for good or ill.


----------



## Bung (Jun 13, 2011)

andyTT180 said:


> Thinking of this with a business head on, business which make large losses get closed down.... Simple as!!


Oh you mean business's like banks.... no wait.. Or do you mean a business like the superfast network http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/home/2013/03/failed-superfast-network-propped-taxpayer.html

Clearly you need to think of this with your thinking head on.


----------



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Mark Davies said:


> I suspect this 'disgust' being expressed by Thatcher's supporters with the 'bad taste' being displayed is little more than a defensive mechanism. All these people who extoll her because of the benefits they personally enjoyed through her policies are perhaps finally, through seeing the exceptional levels of anger still displayed even 30 years later, coming to appreciate how the good fortune of a few was built on the absolute misery of millions. A touch of guilt? I'd hope so.


I think there's an element of truth in that. There's no doubt that if you had a bit of spare cash, lived in the south and were born into a middle-class family, you could have benefitted from some of her policies.

I didn't necessarily agree with all she did - Lord knows I bitterly disagree with what the Conservatives continue to do today. And I don't quite see why she deserves such a lavish, public funded funeral. But I think we'd all do well to show a little respect for the fact she is now dead and has a mourning family.

However, what I would like to know is how Mark Thatcher became a 'Sir' and how he made his millions.

According to his sister he's never done a day's work in his life. :roll:


----------



## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Nyxx said:


> Most here by the looks of it live by " I've voted XXX all my life" ..........
> I can have an open mind and have no party a legions.


No, you're just making unsubstantiated presumptions there. Like you I voted LibDem at the last election - disillusioned with a New Labour that did very little to address the issues that the Tories had created and who had moved away from their Socialist ideals. But then my God, haven't the LibDems been a mighty disappointment!



Nyxx said:


> Are we going to call Tony worse than Brady for the troops that where killed because someone does not think it was a lawful "war"


Well why not? I'm not making the argument but I'm at least open-minded enough to recognise that it's a legitimate point of view. Politicians make decisions and those decisions have consequences - those consequences may very well be that people die. Those deaths may be the collateral of a justifiable cause. The bombing of Dresden in itself was perhaps more controversial than the entire Iraq war but by arguing that it helped bring WW2 to a close some will say it was justified. Similar arguments will be made to say Blair was justified in going to war. They are points of view. It's all about motives, and Thatcher's motives were certainly not all-inclusive and about the greater good of everybody, were they? As John says politicians have to stand up and be counted - and Thatcher is certainly no different.

Brain did nothing more than make the simple observation that Thatcher could quite legitimately be considered responsible for more deaths than Hindley and so was arguably worse. Hindley killed 5. If even just 10% of the additional suicides that happened under Thatcher are attributed directly to her political policies then she brought about the deaths of around 100 - but lets be honest it will have been more than that. That is a lot of deaths and in some way do the numbers themselves not counteract the remote nature of Thatchers responsibility as opposed to Hindleys direct culpability? I wonder if Hitler ever actually killed anyone himself but by being responsible for ordering the genocide of an entire race his evil is beyond question.

But what sort of quota of deaths as a consequence of a political ideology are necessary before we decide the politician behind them was evil? Millions? Sure. Tens of thousands? Yeah. Thousands? I think so. Hundreds? Well, that's the question, isn't it?

It's a legitimate question and there's nothing 'twisted' about it. You accuse people of having the closed minds of 'life-long voters' but by just dismissing this issue in those terms rather than addressing the arguments properly are you not actually being close-minded yourself? You are reacting against people even suggesting a British prime minister could be 'evil' - but the truth is there are millions of people in this country who suffered at her hands who will say exactly that. You can't just simply dismiss that amount of anger.


----------



## Bung (Jun 13, 2011)

Nyxx said:


> Like I said before
> *This is a perfect reason why you should never talk about politics or religion.*
> 
> and am not going to any more, out of here.


Yes you're right we should never discuss politics or religion, we should just let them get on with what they've been doing for centuries and say nothing. What a great way to live your life. " yes sir, no sir, whatever you say archbishop"

In all seriousness the key factor being displayed here is people's inability to withstand confrontation. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone's opinions, it's just that when I see people saying things like " vile, disgusting" etc it comes across as you having run out of argument and are clutching at straws. If your initial reaction to something that you do not agree with is primarily based upon emotion then it's almost impossible to be objective, which some of you seem to want to be portrayed as.

Everyone has made valid points about Maggie. From those who gained something from her actions to those who lost a lot. You are both correct. But to dismiss those who lost out is for me much worse. 
Sure, fine don't agree with them, but to make out that people like BrianR are actually lying or deluded in some way is just ridiculous. He has given you good anecdotal evidence of why he believes Thatcher was bad for the country and by extension himself personally and I believe that those who not only lost nothing, but indeed did gain a great deal for themselves due to her decisions should respect that and stop coming across as rather selfish. After all you had it good right? You gained for yourselves through her actions and now she's dead you are expressing outrage because a great deal of people do not agree with you and are voicing their views on her.

It always amazes me that threads can be created when Joe public does something horrific and the lynch mob starts baying for blood and hanging to be brought back and most of you are fine with that, because it's easy and you have no connections to that person. But when someone famous that you may admire for whatever reason comes under criticism you leap to defend them even though your connection to said person is tenuous at best.

The need to thoroughly scrutinize people in positions of power is very important and is the main reason why we consider the country to be in the screwed up state it is. Because people in positions of great power only answer to the few and therein lies the root of the problem.

For me personally I couldn't give a shot about Margeret Thatcher, alive or dead I care nothing for her as a person. As a former leader of this country I hold her in the same contempt that I reserve for all greedy, selfish, arrogant, parasitic,
manipulative, uncaring, vermin that infests this planet, and you'd better believe that there's a lot of them out there.

Yes there were probably selfish and greedy miners and union people about at that time. You just can't separate them from the bankers, politicians etc that we have today. They are one and the same. Same selfish mindset just slightly different circumstances.


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

just read back a few pages and i am astounded by soo much hate and pure evil thoughts written down for all to see. the mines were failing and had become economically non viable as a business (could have been fixed i am sure) due to both sides refusing to find any middle ground. this was across the whole of the uk based big nationals and she took the easy and cost effective route to just sell sell sell. that was clearly the wrong way and it caused major pain to thousands and effected the generations to come.
she also did some things right, and today i own my own home due to her policy and am gratefull as i expect again are thousands of working class folk like myself. it is a state paid funeral.....so the uk tax payers do have a right to protest as it is their money funding it.
but come on.....are we ourselves savages that wish death on people just because we didn't like someones way of doing things?
many hurtfull and as James said VILE comments have been made that i feel are just not on.
i have no allegiance to any party as all of them just lie and blag to get into power with false promises that they cannot live up to.
but for gods sake allow her family to grieve in peace......


----------



## Bung (Jun 13, 2011)

Gazzer said:


> but come on.....are we ourselves savages that wish death on people just because we didn't like someones way of doing things?
> many hurtfull and as James said VILE comments have been made that i feel are just not on.
> 
> but for gods sake allow her family to grieve in peace......


Yes m8 we are savages that wish death on people just because we don't like the way they do things. What planet have you been living on?
Do me a favour and take an hour out of your life to investigate the vile, spiteful, selfish, hurtful things we do to one another on a daily basis and then come back. Being somewhat selective about what upsets you is selfish and hypocritical but also what makes us human unfortunately.

That people who were not affected in a negative way by her can get so worked up about someone that they never knew and who in all likelyhood wouldn't give 2 shits about them says a lot about social conditioning and why we follow leaders who very rarely care for the general populace.

That your intentions are good and genuine I have no doubt. The problem is our selective cynicism which only tends to arise when something affects us personally in a negative way. Other than that, if we are really honest we couldn't give a flying f**k about people that we have little to no connection to.

I personally long for the day when a meteorite hits and most if not all of us are wiped out. I'm sick and tired of all this fake humanity and our obsessions with all the negative sides of our nature.

To go back to the beginning. Yes we are savages-well dressed and somewhat educated but we are far from civilised.


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Bung said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > but come on.....are we ourselves savages that wish death on people just because we didn't like someones way of doing things?
> ...


Bung, i am fortunate enough to live in a country where i don't actually get tortured or beaten for having a view on things that people do not like. i have no selective cynicism and know right from wrong and would be horrified and damm upset if one of my own children posted some of the posts that have gone on in this thread. (look into thine self) is what i was taught and have tried to live by it.....not always but i try.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

Think I am normally quite reasoanble and happy to be worng, but In this instance I make no apology for my words, I have as much respect for her family as she had for the faamilies of the millions who suffered because of her. I personally think that she was vile. Feck her and feck her family, if I had my way I was string up the whole gang of chinless wonders. £millions on a funeral for that cow? I wouldnt spend 1 penny, I would let her rot in the Ritz in her sh#t filled bed. Sorry some of you dont like that, but hey ho thats life isn;t it. Like her Brian isn't for turning.


----------



## Bung (Jun 13, 2011)

Gazzer said:


> Bung said:
> 
> 
> > Gazzer said:
> ...


No you don't but others do. Or have you forgotten honour killings? as one example. Or does that not count if they are not born here? Does that exclude them from being human because they are capable of doing that?
If history teaches us anything it's that one mans right is another mans wrong it all depends on where you stand.

The threads you see pop up on serial killers or sex crimes here, do they invoke savage feelings within you? because from what I've read here if not you then it certainly does to others, so I maintain that yes we are very savage when it suits us. We then usually just look for a reason to justify it.

You can disagree with what's been said about Thatcher and that's fine. What you cannot do is tell someone who has been affected by her in a very negative way how they should feel about it and that's basically what people who are pro Thatcher have been doing.

I just don't get it with all the defence. If you all truly feel that way then you should be equally defensive about anyone and I mean anyone who has died. Otherwise you're just being a hypocrite.( not you personally I'm just generalising here)
The people, including by admission yourself who benefited from her policies should be grateful that they did well from it and also should recognise that a hell of a lot of people didn't. But don't be misguided into believing that she somehow did this for you or for the general populace.

Have some respect for the dead? I say screw the dead- they're dead and respect doesn't matter to them. How about respect for the living? How about respect for the ones who suffered because of her decisions?

Lastly, please don't mistake me for some sort of anti thatcher leftie. I'm pretty much anti everything, especially anti human. The banal crap we argue about like in this thread is encouraged by government and media alike to discourage us from agreeing on stuff that really matters.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

Nyxx said:


> BrianR said:
> 
> 
> > she was much worse than Myra Hindley by quite a few levels.
> ...


Tough. I worked in a hospital at the time and saw the horrors that you can only imagine mate, whilst you were no doubt sipping a pimms on the river thames or having your nose wiped by your mum. Suggest you come into the real world and get down off your fecking pedastal, it must be lonely up there.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

andyTT180 said:


> I didn't agree with everything she done by a long stretch! It's not even worth continuing a conversation with someone who thinks "she was worse than Myra Hindley by quite a few levels" an absolutely disgusting statement. Putting politics aside I think you should remove and apologise for that frankly awful post, I'm gobsmacked someone would say that!


Thats because you view the world through rose tinted glasses. I know little about you and you know nothing about me, but the only disgusting human being in all of this is rotting in a fridge somewhere right now. I stand by every word and will not remove it, so if you dont like it, maybe remove yourself.


----------



## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

John-H said:


>


I preferred the original, even if has the creepiest lyrics of all time!


----------



## Nyxx (May 1, 2012)

BrianR said:


> Nyxx said:
> 
> 
> > BrianR said:
> ...


You want to get personal do you.

Ok I will reply and I will get personal,
"The real world"...
I live in Nottingham, have worked all my life for what I have, a small terrace house and have never come into any money.
As for my mum....
My mum died when I was young, my dad fell to pieces and so did everything else, how dare you...... (Edited out)
I had to work all the hours I could get to get my own house and it's the only house I have ever had, still the same one after 30 years. It took me 25 years to pay of the 15k the house cost me.

"Pimms on the river Thames"....Just how wrong can you get? You (Edited out)


----------



## bigbison (Jul 31, 2007)

what type of dog did she have ?


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Emotions have been running high with this thread as was always going to be the case and a lot of steam has been vented which is understandable and reflects views of people who have personal experience of the time. Whilst everyone has a right to express their views on the subject, things have been getting a little personal towards fellow board members. If anything needs to be respected here it's the rules on refraining from personal attacks on members. If it continues we are going to have to lock the thread which would be a shame so let's keep discussion civil towards one another please.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

> "Pimms on the river Thames"....Just how wrong can you get? You (Edited out)[/quote


]

What do you want me to say? You dont appear to have a flicker of empathy towards those who suffered under her regime. There were millions of tragic stories in her time and most of them as a result of her policies, you and yours were just one of them.

Ever seen a persons with a cancer eating his face, screaming in agony, but not enough money to supply the level of painkiller he needed? I have. Ever seen old people sitting in squalor enduring degrading death as a result of no funds to make things better? I have. Ever seen seriously disabled children die in hospital wards akin to Bulgarian orphanages? I have. Ever seen old people starving themselves to death because they were faced with a choice of eat or heat? I have. Ever seen mentally ill people taken from their hospitals and thrown on the streets under the theme of 'care in the community'? I have.

So whilst your story is tragic, it is just one of millions of stories taking place at that time. Sad, but your story had nothing to do with this topic and I believe was written because you had nothing more valid to say about what we were discussing. Your response to my saying that you sipped Pimms or had your niose wiped was in my opinion way over the top and totally uncalled for; but was akin to the bullying diversionary tactics of Thatcher herself. For the record I counsell people with stories like yours every week, (BTW I dont charge for that either), whose parents died in underfunded hospitals, or from suicide as a result of the pressure of not working, 30 years on and definately linked to this society at that time. I would bet that the vast majority of those outraged at my views contribute nothing of worth to our society; happy to sit on the side lines in their introverted self centred little worlds polishing their cars and their own egos, supporting those who put the most money in their pockets, caring only for those that the press tell them to; no individual thought of their own, sniping away but actually giving nothing to anybody. On that basis, what you and those similar to you think, does not matter one jot to me.

The double standards here which suggest that I shouldn't state my views and the bullying name calling becaue my views are different than yours, are in my opinion uneducated, ill advised, lacking in judgement or knowledge and pretty crass. Pretty typical of another time, when the devil incarnate ruled this land and only one word ruled, hers.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

John-H said:


> Emotions have been running high with this thread as was always going to be the case and a lot of steam has been vented which is understandable and reflects views of people who have personal experience of the time. Whilst everyone has a right to express their views on the subject, things have been getting a little personal towards fellow board members. If anything needs to be respected here it's the rules on refraining from personal attacks on members. If it continues we are going to have to lock the thread which would be a shame so let's keep discussion civil towards one another please.


John, I didnt get personal to anyone until I was reffered to as a 'moron' by those losing the argument.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

> but for gods sake allow her family to grieve in peace......


[/quote]

I am sure they are grieving well Gaz, after all they arent members of the TT forum; you dont think for a minute that they expected the whole country to be falling all over them in sympathy do you mate? No, they knew it would be like this and yet they still agreed to a state type funeral at the expense of the tax payer any way. In the main I believe because they are huge egotists just like old nick their mother. Thatcher herself would be laughing her head off at the uproar she has once again caused and didnt give a toss what normal ordinary people thought. But you are welcome to your view chap as long as I am welcome to mine.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

> With that quote Brian you offend her family deeply. You are way over the bounds of human decency :x :x[/quote


oh I am so sorry I offended your sensibilities Hilly, poor you. I was not aware that carol and mark read this forum? What model do they have Mk1 or Mk2 (regardless unless he has satnav he will deffo get lost in his own back garden).

So, tough Hilly, live with it; I consder your views and few others supporting the thatcher family to be similarly disgusting; lacking in emotional intelligence or the merest of emapthy of the true situation that persisted, uneducated and crass and disrespectful to the millions who suffered as a result of the head of this family. You are welcome to those views though as over the years they have become pretty typical of the ill advised who spew state backed diatribes delivered with intention of allowing them to appear pious and better about themselves.

Look, to stop the need for further wasted typing and time reading: I couldn't give a toss about her chinless jolly hockey stick family who got rich on the backs of the rest of us and a free funeral to boot (at a time when less fortunates without the ability to pay are currently burying their loved ones on cardboard coffins). So dont talk to me about human decency because it doesnt sound like you know the true meaning of that,


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

Bung said:


> andyTT180 said:
> 
> 
> > Thinking of this with a business head on, business which make large losses get closed down.... Simple as!!
> ...


Brilliant response! Remember Thatcher only really became unpopular in the South when the 'poll tax' hit the streets. Only when middle england were impacted did the previous flag waving and thatcher arse kissing stop; only then did they real squealing begin and did her road to oblivion begin. Prior tio this middle England didnt give a toss about anything but itself. Can you imagine the public outcry were we spending millions on something similarly as worthless as Thatchers funeral? Is this an example of our 'all being in this together''? 50% of the nation don't want it, but we are getting it any way, just klike we did under her leadership. Now they are talking about building a memorial to her memory too; no doubt millions will need to be spent policing that too and what does that tell you. Good though to have somewhere to go and actually vent ones hatred. They should build it in the North so we only have to get on our bikes in order that we visit it.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

bigbison said:


> what type of dog did she have ?


A poodle, his name was Dennis.


----------



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Like mother like son.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/apr/11/mark-thatcher

Knobend.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

rustyintegrale said:


> Like mother like son.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/apr/11/mark-thatcher
> 
> Knobend.


Sir knobend I will have you know :lol:


----------



## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

BrianR said:


> bigbison said:
> 
> 
> > what type of dog did she have ?
> ...


I think you will find Dennis was no lap dog and made his money long before MT became PM, and just because he looked like he was sitting on the side line don't think for one minute he wasn't an astute business man in his own right.
It was probably his money that allowed MR to live at the ritz!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

BrianR said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> > Like mother like son.
> ...


That title is an inheritance too... :roll:


----------



## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

The Sun reckons she was a great lady as well.

Tin hat on, Head down, incoming from scousers.....


----------



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Shug750S said:


> The Sun reckons she was a great lady as well.


Only because she had tits...

...even if she tripped up on them most of the time.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

> I think you will find Dennis was no lap dog and made his money long before MT became PM, and just because he looked like he was sitting on the side line don't think for one minute he wasn't an astute business man in his own right.
> It was probably his money that allowed MR to live at the ritz!


His money; of that I have no doubt, but it is hardly fitting to keep referring to her as a grocers daughter when she lived in the Ritz don't you think. I always considered hima poodle because to be frank he always resembled one.


----------



## andyTT180 (Mar 19, 2010)

BrianR said:


> > I think you will find Dennis was no lap dog and made his money long before MT became PM, and just because he looked like he was sitting on the side line don't think for one minute he wasn't an astute business man in his own right.
> > It was probably his money that allowed MR to live at the ritz!
> 
> 
> His money; of that I have no doubt, but it is hardly fitting to keep referring to her as a grocers daughter when she lived in the Ritz don't you think. I always considered hima poodle because to be frank he always resembled one.


She was a grocers daughter though?!? There's a big difference between someone who's born rich and someone who's made themselves rich :roll: Why are you now picking holes in her husband, who had nothing to do with her politics? Seems you're going off topic again :roll:


----------



## Bung (Jun 13, 2011)

andyTT180 said:


> She was a grocers daughter though?!? There's a big difference between someone who's born rich and someone who's made themselves rich :roll: Why are you now picking holes in her husband, who had nothing to do with her politics? Seems you're going off topic again :roll:


Yes and there's a big difference between someone who's made themselves rich and someone who marries someone rich.

Time to put your thinking head back on.


----------



## andyTT180 (Mar 19, 2010)

Bung said:


> andyTT180 said:
> 
> 
> > She was a grocers daughter though?!? There's a big difference between someone who's born rich and someone who's made themselves rich :roll: Why are you now picking holes in her husband, who had nothing to do with her politics? Seems you're going off topic again :roll:
> ...


Yawn given she got herself a scholarship to Oxford, attained a degree and had a decent job as a chemist prior to entering the relms of politics or Dennis Thatcher I think you'll agree she bettered herself :roll:



BrianR said:


> happy to sit on the side lines in their introverted self centred little worlds polishing their cars and their own egos, supporting those who put the most money in their pockets, caring only for those that the press tell them to; no individual thought of their own, sniping away but actually giving nothing to anybody. On that basis, what you and those similar to you think, does not matter one jot to me.


I agree with this! Given that I pay taxes which are far to high I must say, I think I pay my dues and with exception the NHS its not my problem to bother about things such as drug addicts, teenage mothers and first world problems such as the "long term unemployed" who've never had jobs being unable to afford an annual holiday and a new car. I'll give you a laugh; Theres a new social housing development about 6 miles away from the village I live in (built circa 3 years ago), it was built to accomodate homeless people and recovering addicts etc its now a drug den, full of rubbish, burnt out old cars and caravans and no one wants to go anywhere near it. A perfect example of why bother? If people don't want to help themselves then why should anyone else!!! Our "welfare state" helps very few who actually need it ie those who are genuinely unemployed and has encouraged a large group of work shy, lazy people who believe its their given right to have children they can't afford, whilst enjoying all the cigarette's and cheap cider they can carry back from the corner shop... If your point is that "people like me" have no sympathy for these people you're 100% correct.

And before you jump on the band wagon saying that the welfare state works, a friend of mine was unemployed for over a year after being made redundent in 2007 he was getting £60 a week, his credit rating was ruined and he almost lost his house, all because he wasn't deemed "needy" enough because he owned his own home and his wife had a part time job paying little over minium wage!!

While we're on it the bedroom tax is too soft if you're a single person living a 3 bed council house (not a private rental as some many people seem to think it is) then you should be automatically booted out into a 1 bed flat


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

andyTT180 said:


> Bung said:
> 
> 
> > andyTT180 said:
> ...


i have to agree Andy regarding the welfare state, however i don't think it is biased to anyone but certain people know how to play it and get everything they can. my personal belief is that if you have paid into the system for years you should automatically get a better payout if you find lady luck has kicked you in the nads and you are temporarily out of work.

agreed on the bedroom tax being soft, and i would even go further and say that they must even pay for their own moving costs agreed at time of signing the tenancy.


----------



## denTTed (Feb 21, 2007)

ffs


----------



## denTTed (Feb 21, 2007)

Gazzer said:


> i have to agree Andy regarding the welfare state, however i don't think it is biased to anyone but certain people know how to play it and get everything they can. my personal belief is that if you have paid into the system for years you should automatically get a better payout if you find lady luck has kicked you in the nads and you are temporarily out of work.
> 
> agreed on the bedroom tax being soft, and i would even go further and say that they must even pay for their own moving costs agreed at time of signing the tenancy.


 DOn't I know it gaz, I'm entitled to £72 a week, apparently I earned too much before to get anything else. Ok, I'll feed house and keep warm a family of 4 on that shall I?


----------



## Hilly10 (Feb 4, 2004)

BrianR said:


> > With that quote Brian you offend her family deeply. You are way over the bounds of human decency :x :x[/quote
> 
> 
> oh I am so sorry I offended your sensibilities Hilly, poor you. I was not aware that carol and mark read this forum? What model do they have Mk1 or Mk2 (regardless unless he has satnav he will deffo get lost in his own back garden).
> ...


You do not offend me with your remarks say whatever you want. You will never change your mind on this issue and I for one do not give a toss. I lived and worked through the Thatcher years started my own business and have been successful enough to semi retire at 56.But I have done it through shear hard graft, never had one penny or help from the state I have picked myself up when company bankruptcies have took me for thousands. And Brian who do I have to thank for this, the same person Richard Branson thanks the one the only MAGGIE THATCHER.

Have a nice rest of your life. Mod Edit: Personal insult removed. Don't bother to reply, I have done with all your tosh and shall not read any more of this thread, I am going to enjoy my life, I suggest you do the same


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

denTTed said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > i have to agree Andy regarding the welfare state, however i don't think it is biased to anyone but certain people know how to play it and get everything they can. my personal belief is that if you have paid into the system for years you should automatically get a better payout if you find lady luck has kicked you in the nads and you are temporarily out of work.
> ...


hi John, sorry to hear that bud...........CAB give them a bell as they know how to get through or around the system to get what you are really entitled to m8ee.

Brian.......do you recall spandy's post about Roddy's anti establishment boring yawn yawn yawn on and on crap? hate to say it m8, but you are now doing the same over a dead old lady. and you are coming across as bitter and twisted at times m8!! chill winston..........(that is just me being a friend) and observing mucker xxx


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

> And before you jump on the band wagon saying that the welfare state works, a friend of mine was unemployed for over a year after being made redundent in 2007 he was getting £60 a week, his credit rating was ruined and he almost lost his house, all because he wasn't deemed "needy" enough because he owned his own home and his wife had a part time job paying little over minium wage!!
> 
> While we're on it the bedroom tax is too soft if you're a single person living a 3 bed council house (not a private rental as some many people seem to think it is) then you should be automatically booted out into a 1 bed flat


[/quote]

I couldnt agree more and have been there myself. But this has gone rather off topic.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

Shug750S said:


> The Sun reckons she was a great lady as well.
> 
> was that in between tapping the phones of murdered children
> 
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Really I am not here to attack anyone, but I won't become quiet for the sake of the bullyboys and girls (especially silly Hilly) used to getting their own way without even offerring an argument, shouting names and then running away tio hide in their semi retired perfect little worlds when someone stands up to them.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

> Brian.......do you recall spandy's post about Roddy's anti establishment boring yawn yawn yawn on and on crap? hate to say it m8, but you are now doing the same over a dead old lady. and you are coming across as bitter and twisted at times m8!! chill winston..........(that is just me being a friend) and observing mucker xxx


[/quote]

Hi Gazzer. I am wonderring if you have said something to silly hilly? or any of the others calling names? Honestly mate that is your opinion and you are welcome to it. I would counter that by saying that your ongoing middle of the road comments are beginning to sound boring mate, you may want to get off the fence and contribute something other than the peace making routine (and that is just my being a friend to you). I am entitled to respond to abusive name calling mate even if you dont like that. So you do your thing and I will continue to do mine. If thats boring you I suggest you block me and stop reading.


----------



## Bung (Jun 13, 2011)

andyTT180 said:


> Yawn given she got herself a scholarship to Oxford, attained a degree and had a decent job as a chemist prior to entering the relms of politics or Dennis Thatcher I think you'll agree she bettered herself :roll:


Of course I agree that she bettered herself I just wasn't aware that that was what was being argued. And if you're that tired try an early night or two it's great for the brain and you sound like you need it.



Hilly10 said:


> I lived and worked through the Thatcher years started my own business and have been successful enough to semi retire at 56.But I have done it through shear hard graft, never had one penny or help from the state I have picked myself up when company bankruptcies have took me for thousands. And Brian who do I have to thank for this, the same person Richard Branson thanks the one the only MAGGIE THATCHER.


Ridiculous, you have stated yourself that you achieved this through your own efforts without any help from the state, so why you feel the need to give credit to a selfish politician for something that you achieved on your own is beyond me. Take the credit yourself and be pleased with your achievements but to say that you could only have done this because of Margaret Thatcher is mind boggling.


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

BrianR said:


> > Brian.......do you recall spandy's post about Roddy's anti establishment boring yawn yawn yawn on and on crap? hate to say it m8, but you are now doing the same over a dead old lady. and you are coming across as bitter and twisted at times m8!! chill winston..........(that is just me being a friend) and observing mucker xxx


Hi Gazzer. I am wonderring if you have said something to silly hilly? or any of the others calling names? Honestly mate that is your opinion and you are welcome to it. I would counter that by saying that your ongoing middle of the road comments are beginning to sound boring mate, you may want to get off the fence and contribute something other than the peace making routine (and that is just my being a friend to you). I am entitled to respond to abusive name calling mate even if you dont like that. So you do your thing and I will continue to do mine. If thats boring you I suggest you block me and stop reading.[/quote]
Brian m8 why would i block you??? when i have been ott and you tell me so i have had to sit back and gather my thoughts and re look at what i have posted at times (i thank you for that). i have lmao never spoken to Hilly over this thread and i do not sit on the fence..........i disliked maggie for many things and also liked her for many things, but to me it is just wrong to slaughter someones memory with clearly abusive comments about her death. we will have to agree to disagree i am afraid m8 on this one.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

> Brian m8 why would i block you??? when i have been ott and you tell me so i have had to sit back and gather my thoughts and re look at what i have posted at times (i thank you for that). i have lmao never spoken to Hilly over this thread and i do not sit on the fence..........i disliked maggie for many things and also liked her for many things, but to me it is just wrong to slaughter someones memory with clearly abusive comments about her death. we will have to agree to disagree i am afraid m8 on this one.


[/quote]

Trouble is mate that feelings are running high at the moment. Lets look at the facts in just this one conversation:

Hilly comes on and without supporting evidence other than her own sensibilities describes me as disgsuting for my views, then she disappears.
I responded counterring that with some facts and a few words about how I experience Hilly.
Hilly comes on and calls me a whole host of new names 
Understandably on my view, I responded counterring that with a few personal views of my own
Then you come along and tell me I am boring you and shouldnt be going on.

Why am I wrong? What am I supposed to do, sit back and take it because Hilly says so? Becasue she is female (she doesnt sound like some shrinking violet unable to protect herself, on the contrary she sounds a right cow in my opinion. So far, other than spouting that she and Richard Branson did well (stuff everyone else) and adding to that some churlish spoilt brat type abuse before running away again, Hilly has not offered anything to the argument; has not provided one supporting fact other than her own one dimensional experience of personal success and in that she disrespects millions in my view.

Now this is happening more and more often; people with little supporting view, shouting their mouths off in a few unsupported sentences, abusing, name calling etc etc I have never been good with bullies (in my younger days I would generally give them a right pasting) and I am certainly not going to back down from them here mate. So whilst I am grateful for your advice, I will do it my own way.


----------



## andyTT180 (Mar 19, 2010)

> Now this is happening more and more often; people with little supporting view, shouting their mouths off in a few unsupported sentences


Hit the nail on the head really :roll: :roll:


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I'm guessing that someone is drinking :wink:


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

jamman said:


> I'm guessing that someone is drinking :wink:


well if they are I may well join em :lol: .


----------



## Hilly10 (Feb 4, 2004)

Trying to goad me to a slanging match my friend, I am better then that. You are a kind that deserves no respect and I will show you none. There are a lot of people on here who know me and I am confidant that they know what you are, hence why a lot of them have not bothered to post. One thing that intrigues me how to you know I live a very boring life people who surmise are often very wrong  Goodnight sleep tight :wink:


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

jamman said:


> I'm guessing that someone is drinking :wink:


not sure about the drinking bit James............me thinks someone had the mr grumpy pants on


----------



## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

BrianR said:


> Shug750S said:
> 
> 
> > The Sun reckons she was a great lady as well.
> ...


Some really dodgy editing at play here, my non Sun reading friend. You say you are not here to attack anyone, but then change my post in your quote...
But I don't want to get into 'an always the victims' chain. That belongs on football forums, no need to mention 2 biggest and saddest days in football, both involving same fans... The same fans who slashed a couple of my mates in the 80's, but seem to wear victim badges as they are innocent...


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Oh dear :roll: :roll:

Shug don't take this thread down any further than it has sunk already.

You said no need to mention and then do... :roll:

Leave that to the sad football forums which I'm sure you are well aquainted with.


----------



## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

jamman said:


> Oh dear :roll: :roll:
> 
> Shug don't take this thread down any further than it has sunk already.
> 
> ...


Not acquainted with, all some 30 years ago.

Fair point mate, just didn't like the re-editing of my original post.

End.


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Shug750S said:


> Not acquainted with, all some 30 years ago.
> 
> Fair point mate, just didn't like the re-editing of my original post.
> 
> End.


I don't think Brian was deliberately editing it to look like you wrote the additional line. I think he was replying to your two sentences individually but didn't put any additional quote tags in, leaving it looking like you'd written his comment too.


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Simple fact of the mater is opinions are like ar$eholes, everyone has one & they're all different.

The other simple fact is that Maggie & her government delivered many good policies & a few bad ones. If you were affected by the bad ones then your opinion will be vastly different to those who benefited from her good policies.

Personally the way she dealt with spongers, helped those who wanted to help themselves, pushed back the Europeans, applied immigration policy, didn't surrender to the Unions, defenced our nation (Falkland Isles) against the Argies & dealt with the NI crisis was to be admired. That said, the way she handled & stood up the miners (unions), although a brave move was not her best & she did screw up a handful of other issues, but for ME she was strong & the above for ME was to be admired. Her positives more than outweighed her negatives, however (BIG HOWEVER), her negatives didn't really impact ME but her positives did. I'm sure if this were the reverse then my opinion of her would also be the exact opposite.

My caveat is that I'm 42 so was slap bang in the middle of her era, however i was young & therefore believed most of what i saw on TV or read in the papers, so as stated above, this is my opinion & if others share it hey ho, but if they don't then hey ho again


----------



## GPT TT (Mar 18, 2012)

Hate how she is still splitting the country. As soon as I saw the thread title I knew it would end up in a typing brawl.

My old man spent a lot of time away from home policing the Riots. A innocent Policeman and father being attacked and beaten by ex-innocent hard working minors and fathers. Really doesn't make sense.

Small positive was the Falklands. But I don't agree with parties and violent disorder. I dread to see what happens on Wednesday. I pray we don't embarrass ourselves like over the weekend in the North East and Wembely. She's gone now, onwards and upwards.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

Hilly10 said:


> Trying to goad me to a slanging match my friend, I am better then that. You are a kind that deserves no respect and I will show you none. There are a lot of people on here who know me and I am confidant that they know what you are, hence why a lot of them have not bothered to post. One thing that intrigues me how to you know I live a very boring life people who surmise are often very wrong  Goodnight sleep tight :wink:


See I take as I find chum, you sound boring and dull; someone suggested that you are also male in the number of p.ms I have had about you - I told them you can't be male, you sound too much like a whinging, self centerd, selfish, arrogant, dumb blonde tart and so I will treat you like one. Maybe in your semi retiredness you had your hair and nails done today Hilly ready for the funeral? I hope it was a blue rinse in appreciation of yours and Richards idol. See I am not bating you mate, I am patronsising you but you are too stupid to know it :lol: Any way thats it from me to you and unlike you I mean that; ta ta tit head


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

> But I don't want to get into 'an always the victims' chain. That belongs on football forums, no need to mention 2 biggest and saddest days in football, both involving same fans... The same fans who slashed a couple of my mates in the 80's, but seem to wear victim badges as they are innocent...


[/quote]

Shug I didnt have a clue that I edited your mail; in fact mate I dont even know you exist; you and your post mean and meant less than nothing to me. See mate when people mention things like Hillsborough, I don't raise to it. Sorry about your mates, slashings happened everywhere in the 80s and so they should have been more careful. So good luck with it all ,now suggest you go give hilly a big sweaty kiss mate because I couldn;t give a toss - in fact as you have nothing to say that I want to hear, you are now blocked :lol:


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

W7 PMC said:


> Simple fact of the mater is opinions are like ar$eholes, everyone has one & they're all different.
> 
> The other simple fact is that Maggie & her government delivered many good policies & a few bad ones. If you were affected by the bad ones then your opinion will be vastly different to those who benefited from her good policies.
> 
> ...


A balanced view and fairminded to. i respect that!


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

> End.


I don't think Brian was deliberately editing it to look like you wrote the additional line. I think he was replying to your two sentences individually but didn't put any additional quote tags in, leaving it looking like you'd written his comment too.[/quote][/quote]

Thanks Spandex I appreciated the explanation and will take more care in future


----------



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Spandex said:


> I don't think Brian was deliberately editing it to look like you wrote the additional line. I think he was replying to your two sentences individually but didn't put any additional quote tags in, leaving it looking like you'd written his comment too.





BrianR said:


> Thanks Spandex I appreciated the explanation and will take more care in future


I hope I corrected it right Mr B and S.

Brian, nearly all your posts seem to have a problem with quoting previous posts. I don't want to teach you how to suck eggs but just hit the 'Quote' button on a post to reply, then hit 'Return' a couple of times before bashing out your stuff.

Sometimes I get confused over what you're saying and what you're quoting and I'm sure it can lead to you getting your head bitten off for no reason! :lol:


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

rustyintegrale said:


> Spandex said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think Brian was deliberately editing it to look like you wrote the additional line. I think he was replying to your two sentences individually but didn't put any additional quote tags in, leaving it looking like you'd written his comment too.
> ...


Yes thats what I do but even then I often have to go back and edit. It happens mostly when there are two or more quotes involved. Also though, I guess in the heat of cyber battle things get forgotten :lol: . Appreciate the help though chap


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

GPT TT said:


> Hate how she is still splitting the country. As soon as I saw the thread title I knew it would end up in a typing brawl.
> 
> My old man spent a lot of time away from home policing the Riots. A innocent Policeman and father being attacked and beaten by ex-innocent hard working minors and fathers. Really doesn't make sense.
> 
> Small positive was the Falklands. But I don't agree with parties and violent disorder. I dread to see what happens on Wednesday. I pray we don't embarrass ourselves like over the weekend in the North East and Wembely. She's gone now, onwards and upwards.


Definately, she shouldnt be given another thought.


----------



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

BrianR said:


> Appreciate the help though chap
> 
> Nah wooking furrais.
> 
> Do you see my irony... :wink:


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

rustyintegrale said:


> BrianR said:
> 
> 
> > Appreciate the help though chap
> ...


 :lol:


----------



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

BrianR said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> > BrianR said:
> ...


 :wink:


----------



## Ikon66 (Sep 12, 2003)

ok chaps, the thread went a little over the top there but it looks like things are calming down, i hope :?

it was always going to be an emotive topic but please no more personal attacks


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Great to see they are stopping Big Ben as a mark of respect.

Im sure all forces families such as mine will be paying their respects.


----------



## Hilly10 (Feb 4, 2004)

Lets just hope its a peaceful protest during the Funeral, after all, the world will be watching. It will more then likely be the feral scum of this country who will be out, hell bent on causing trouble.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

mod edit - not helping here!!!!!


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

BrianR said:


> mod edit - not helping here!!!!!


Yes well reffering to those who may protest as 'feral scum' isnt useful either and yet you allow that to persist and I note have not edited that. Maybe a little more balance versus what you do and don't permit and who you do and dont permit to say it is in order? Otherwise the whole thing falls down and the editor is simply seen as having another agenda. Good luck with that


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

denTTed said:


> DOn't I know it gaz, I'm entitled to £72 a week, apparently I earned too much before to get anything else. Ok, I'll feed house and keep warm a family of 4 on that shall I?


You have my deepest sympathy chap and I know from personal circumstances what you are experiencing. I hope things change for your as qucikly as possible because the system isnt set up to help those who really want to work, it is too busy trying to find those who dont for that. Loads ofl luck yor way


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

Ikon66 said:


> ok chaps, the thread went a little over the top there but it looks like things are calming down, i hope :?
> 
> it was always going to be an emotive topic but please no more personal attacks


t would appear on the face of things that those initiating the personal attacks seldom appear to experieince any consequences of that. We are all entitled to our views, in fact I encourage that; in this instance it appears to have been fine to think MC was a virtual saint by a few, but was taken particularly badly when an opposite view to that was given. I have looked back and reviewed this strand, some decent debate on either side in a lot of cases, with in-depth self experiential anecdotal evidence, particularly from those anti thatcher and in my opinion beautifully captured by Mark Daviesand some great facts from Spandex too; and a fair bit of similar opinion from those who were pro her in some cases. It fell down because a few who apparently struggled to support their arguments, riled with indignation that someone could despise their hero so much, decided to engage in personal abuse when they didnt like what they were hearing; in my opinion they didnt even read half of what had been written or understand that. they didn't attempt to overcome with fact or even fiction, they simply called names and where then very angry when someone challenged and dared call names back at them. I havent put up with name callers since my infant days and I am not about to start that now - in fact having grown up with three sisters I am pretty adept at it when I need to be. I guess what I am saying is, if the mods want to prevent personal attacks, then where possible they need to stamp on that at the point of origin. I know the mods cant be everywhere all of the time and I dont expect that, I empathise with their position, but when they are here then there should not be any excuse for that persisting. iust my view


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Leave it alone m8, you just look obsessed and ott now. I know you are emotive, but hey come on you are going overboard. Even insisting on posting where no posts are bud :?


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

Gazzer said:


> Leave it alone m8, you just look obsessed and ott now. I know you are emotive, but hey come on you are going overboard. Even insisting on posting where no posts are bud :?


Gaz I am wonderring why you feel the need to do that? I dont feel I have gone overboard I have simply responded to the post of a mod, in a reflective and respectful way. You dont appear to have my best interests at heart mate or you would maybe pm me rather than publicly berating me. Given the comments by the mod and the fact one of my posts was edited I feel it is fair to respond to that (not in the negative way you have in the past when you have been edited). I think this problem has gone on for a while and I have something to say about it; following this strand it felt like a good time. I am not trying to upset anyone and I feel better for having said it, so what is your problem mate; why is it so difficult for you to hear? Like I said a short while ago mate if you arent happy with what I say, then please simply ignore it, or respond against it, but dont lets pretend you are trying to help me bud, because it is obvious that you are not. Like I said above, just my view and I will leave it at that mate. All the best.


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

BrianR said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > Leave it alone m8, you just look obsessed and ott now. I know you are emotive, but hey come on you are going overboard. Even insisting on posting where no posts are bud :?
> ...


Dear Brian, I did pm you on two occasions after I had read your posts and thought (foot me noooooo) why and how could you post that!!!!

After my first attempt you tell me to block you (add as foe) :?

Maybe a subject that is too close to heart, and normal service hasn't resumed bud.


----------



## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

Gaz, You did pm twice but only after doing something similarly public before that. Your view of the situatioon and the things you think about that just represent your view chap. I know my own intentions, whilst you are simply guessing at them (and wrongly). Like I said mate, suggest leaving it as we aren't going to agree on this.


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Sorry Brian, this one would love to drop it and move on....but you have taken it to the next level of hate tbh. Hate to say this but add me to ignore list as I find this topic has taken our friendship ott. Good luck m8 and I mean that but now feck off from any of my posts topics as I feel you are poisoned .


----------



## Hilly10 (Feb 4, 2004)

Why dont the Mods lock this thread. Mod edit: Personal attack removed.


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Hilly10 said:


> Why dont the Mods lock this thread. Mod edit: Personal attack removed.


Sorry Hilly, but shut the feck up and please back off on this one bud. Thanks from me personally big boy


----------



## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Back in your cage gazzer love. XxxX


----------



## Ikon66 (Sep 12, 2003)

think we'll follow suit here and bury this thread


----------

