# Money Laundering



## Ikon66 (Sep 12, 2003)

I was in the dealers today for the first service on the TTS. Anyway while i was waiting I heard a conversation between a service member of staff and a customer. Their bill came to £516 and she said how would you like to pay, they said cash, to which she replied the most they could take would be £500 in cash in case of money laundering!!!! the rest would have to paid either by card or cheque.

Never heard of this before - just thought I would share :?

Cheers

Paul


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, Thats a new one, I was told £8000 was the limit & retailers where supposed to inform the authoritys if this limit in cash was exceeded..
H.


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## jammyd (Oct 11, 2008)

Personally I will go to the dry cleaners rather than audi if I wanted my money laundered

Come on some one had to say it


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

When there are cashback cards around why would anyone use cash ?


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## Hark (Aug 23, 2007)

Anything under a fiver (bolts/gaskets etc) dealer doesn't accept cards either.

Bit picky :roll:


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## skiwhiz (Feb 17, 2008)

Ikon66 said:


> I was in the dealers today for the first service on the TTS. Anyway while i was waiting I heard a conversation between a service member of staff and a customer. Their bill came to £516 and she said how would you like to pay, they said cash, to which she replied the most they could take would be £500 in cash in case of money laundering!!!! the rest would have to paid either by card or cheque.
> 
> Never heard of this before - just thought I would share :?
> 
> ...


Thought you were going to say they had laundered your money, times must be hard I got a call last week saying they had revised their charges and would I like the air con servicing at the special rate :lol:


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

Can they refuse payment in cash as it is legal tender :?:

I would have asked them to provide legal documentation that states that; but then I can be anal about such things :?

Or I would have given the £500 and thanked them for the £16 discount


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

Any company is required to show due diligence in acertaining that any monies paid to them have been aquired through the proper channels. The reason the government gives is to prevent money laundering, which to a certain extent is correct, however it does mean that some items that were paid for in cash and "forgotten" about never appear on the audited accounts and are therefore not subject to tax! This latter point would be of more concern to the government.

The dealer was quite right to accept a maximum of £500 in cash. Even if you don't want a Credit card then anyone with the ability (stupidity) to carry £500 in cash should at least have a debit card. There will be exceptions, these being old people, drug dealers and pikeys. Apart from Merc dealers, who specialise in the old and Pikeys, the only people visiting most car dealers with that amount of cash will be drug dealers. QED.


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

scavenger said:


> Can they refuse payment in cash as it is legal tender :?:
> 
> I would have asked them to provide legal documentation that states that; but then I can be anal about such things :?
> 
> Or I would have given the £500 and thanked them for the £16 discount


Agreed! And id have made such a song and dance if they said no, that they soon would change their minds! £516 in a audi dealer was probally only to have teh brake pads changed :roll:


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## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

I paid cash for my car, as other on here have done, is that different?


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

Why anyone want to pay cash these days is beyond me, I know some who do pay in large sums just to look flash but I know most companies now don't like to hold large amounts of cash are they are prime targets to get robbed and are limited by insurance to the amount they are allowed on the premises at any one time for that reason.


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## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

I would be pretty sure that Audi insurance company would cover them for large amounts of cash just by the very nature of their business.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Using Sam as an example, let's say someone sells one car privately (for cash) and then goes directly to the dealer to buy another.

Why would you bother yourself to pay the money into your account, wait for it to 'clear' (always puzzled me why cash has to clear) and then go to the dealer and buy the car?

When we sold our last car for cash, we had to go to the bank at a weekend with 5k in cash and pay it in to one of those machines in small bundles. It was the only machine working and there was a massive queue behind us. We were not popular.


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## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

[smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

I used to be a cash happy man, but I used to be a sparky. Many guys in the construction industry will have cash that they wont want to be putting into a bank account if you know what I mean :wink:


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

I don't think HMRC accepts cash any more either for paying tax / duty.

A £500 limit is more for administrative reasons than legislation. Remember the chap in Germany who test drove an A3 Cabrio with the roof down and over 20k euros on the backseat? I assume the dealership was prepared to accept the cash - had it not been spread across several kilometres of autobahn.

However, dealerships should have controls in place to identify proceeds of crime being handed over to them, which is not restricted to cash.


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## 26ash_tt (Jul 16, 2008)

scavenger said:


> Can they refuse payment in cash as it is legal tender :?:
> 
> I would have asked them to provide legal documentation that states that; but then I can be anal about such things :?
> 
> Or I would have given the £500 and thanked them for the £16 discount


yep retailers or whoever etc reserve the right to decide what payment method they except even if it is legal tender


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## Hilly10 (Feb 4, 2004)

Bikerz said:


> I used to be a cash happy man, but I used to be a sparky. Many guys in the construction industry will have cash that they wont want to be putting into a bank account if you know what I mean :wink:


I certainly do not know what you mean


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## was8v (Feb 8, 2009)

Cash is king. I don't accept any other kind of payment when I privately sell my cars, too much hassle and risk. I normally use the cash to pay for the next one.

I hate the idea of a cash less society, it is all going too 1984 with the proliferation of cctv, ID cards and only being able to buy things on card. I don't have anything to hide, I just don't like the idea of "big brother" knowing everything about me.

But I do have amex with 5% cashback  so if I was to buy from a dealer I would probably use that.......


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

Trouble with accepting large cash amounts is you will not be covered by household insurance and whilst you can have the opinion it will never happen to me the risk is always there that you will have your house burgled or get mugged. I think my household insurance covers me for £1500 unless i have a safe where the amount can be specified. Business are no different and whilst some may take the risk alot wont and most would not be covered for a substantial amount in the event of a robbery.
So whilst you think cash is the best denomination you could easily get forged notes just as easily as forged bankers drafts!


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

It's gonna be cash all the way for me from now on. Too many people in the Revenue and the banks are happy to swap information.

How else would the CSA know how much 'room' I have on my credit card? [smiley=argue.gif]

Cheers

rich


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## drjam (Apr 7, 2006)

scavenger said:


> Can they refuse payment in cash as it is legal tender :?:


They can accept or refuse whatever they like. They're not obliged to sell you anything just because you can pay for it.
I doubt that an amount just over £500 really has any money-laundering regulatory issues for them though - more likely just an excuse because they don't want large amounts of cash floating about the office and the hassle of paying it in, accounting for it etc. Much less admin if everything is electronic.


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## 26ash_tt (Jul 16, 2008)

i used to prefer using cash all the time but to be honest i think its just more of a ball ache now just to easy to pay by card.

i wouldn't buy a car from someone who would only accept cash though that'd sound well dodgy :lol:


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Good luck buying a car privatly then!


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Bikerz said:


> Good luck buying a car privatly then!


I think there's a limit for that though. I've paid £14k in cash for a car before and I really didn't like doing it.

As long as you're aware of the banking practises and clearance times for money transfers and bankers drafts, etc. then you should be absolutely fine. It's possible to do plenty of checks on a seller or buyer to ensure that they are legitimate. I've had photocopies of peoples passports and drivers licenses made and ensured the address is genuine (and they live there) before, just to make myself comfortable with a deal.

Most of the frauds that take place using bankers drafts, etc. are down to people assuming they're foolproof and instant. As long as you treat them the same way you'd treat a cheque, you should be fine.


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## QuackingPlums (Mar 10, 2004)

drjam said:


> scavenger said:
> 
> 
> > Can they refuse payment in cash as it is legal tender :?:
> ...


They can only refuse to sell you something if you've offered the £500 in cash up front. Invoicing you upon collection is different to selling you some brake pads. Same applies in a restaurant vs. a self-service cafe.
If they've already serviced your car then a debt has been incurred, at which point valid banknotes do constitute legal tender - I'm not going into the whole definition of "legal tender" again - am pretty sure it'll come up in a search if you look. 
Interestingly, taking a point from above, debit and credit cards do not constitute "legal tender"...

The money laundering thing is completely separate, and a policy set by individual companies. If Audi didn't want cash in sums larger than £500, they should have said so up front. If no agreement was made beforehand, then you are within your rights to settle using "legal tender".


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## lofty (Apr 3, 2007)

You have to be registered with HMRC if you receive large amounts of cash as payment for goods,but I think the limit is about £12k,not sure why the dealer is saying it's for money laundering.As previously mentioned they probably just dont want large amounts of cash in the office,it is also quite expensive to pay cash into a business bank account,much cheaper for them to take money from your debit card.


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## John C (Jul 5, 2002)

For the record...

Legal tender definition btw - nothing to do with the Money Laundering debate...



> Bank of England notes are the only banknotes that are legal tender in England and Wales and are issued for in the amount of £5, £10, £20 and £50. United Kingdom coinage is legal tender, but in limited amounts for coins below £1.
> 
> In the United Kingdom, only coins valued 1 pound Sterling, 2 pounds, and 5 pounds Sterling are legal tender in unlimited amounts throughout the territory of the United Kingdom. In accordance with the Coinage Act 1971, gold sovereigns are also legal tender for any amount. The face values of sovereigns are 50p, £1, £2 and £5; their value in material worth is much higher. The United Kingdom legislation that introduced the 1 pound coin left no United Kingdom-wide legal tender banknote.
> 
> Currently, 20 pence pieces, 25 pence coins and 50 pence pieces are legal tender in amounts up to 10 pounds; 5 pence pieces and 10 pence pieces are legal tender in amounts up to 5 pounds; and 1 penny pieces and 2 pence pieces are legal tender in amounts up to 20 pence.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

I get the impression that Bank of Scotland notes aren't legal tender then? I've always thought they were fine to use in England.


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## QuackingPlums (Mar 10, 2004)

Dash said:


> I get the impression that Bank of Scotland notes aren't legal tender then? I've always thought they were fine to use in England.


They are fine to use where retailers want to accept them, but that's different from what the term "legal tender" implies.
Legal tender on its own still doesn't mean that a retailer must accept them - it only applies when settling a debt, which hasn't been incurred if you're just offering to pay for goods over the counter.

The £1 note was the last note to be "legal tender" throughout England and Scotland.


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Dash said:


> I get the impression that Bank of Scotland notes aren't legal tender then? I've always thought they were fine to use in England.


They are, use them on a weekley basis, but most places give u a funny look like your a pie eating drunk monster :lol:


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Here's something I got from the bloke who at the time was the head of the National Crime Squad's Economic Crime Unit and had pioneered seizures under the Proceeds of Crime Act.

Apparently the gangland criminals' current money laundering method of choice is the ice cream van!

Anybody want to venture a theory of why?


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## pas_55 (May 9, 2002)

Well yeh you ever bought a 99 with a debit/credit card?
See what I mean.


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## SAJ77 (Nov 16, 2008)

Mark Davies said:


> Here's something I got from the bloke who at the time was the head of the National Crime Squad's Economic Crime Unit and had pioneered seizures under the Proceeds of Crime Act.
> 
> Apparently the gangland criminals' current money laundering method of choice is the ice cream van!
> 
> Anybody want to venture a theory of why?


Tanning salons are also another popular choice


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## pas_55 (May 9, 2002)

And amusement arcades too


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

SAJSTER said:


> Mark Davies said:
> 
> 
> > Here's something I got from the bloke who at the time was the head of the National Crime Squad's Economic Crime Unit and had pioneered seizures under the Proceeds of Crime Act.
> ...


Or Limo's


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## John C (Jul 5, 2002)

Dash said:


> I get the impression that Bank of Scotland notes aren't legal tender then? I've always thought they were fine to use in England.


Scottish bank notes (Bank of Scotland, RBS and Clydesdale) are not legal tender anywhere, even Scotland! BUT and a big but (hehe) they are accepted widely. Difference being just law theory not day-to-day practice.

Basically what a Scottish note says is if you bring to the bank it is from they will exchange it for a 'proper' one, i.e. a Bank of England note. Scottish banks need to hold a reserve asset ratio of Bank of England notes (real ones!) in the safe as collateral against the ones they print. And yes they really are held, massive crates with £ms of brown drinking vouchers.

In short Scottish notes are still in existence as both a marketing tool for the Scottish Banks (clearly RBS and HBOS reputation would be in tatters without them <cough>) and also 'because they can'.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

It turns out the reason a 99 is called that is because when the idea was first devised you could sell them for £1 but the ingredients only cost 1p - giving a profit of 99p. Now apparently the best rates you can usually get laundering cash through more 'traditional' channels are about 20% commission. Therefore it works out much more cost effective to just get an ice cream van, go down the wholesalers and buy up the ingredients and just bin them, putting the dirty cash through the ice cream business as sales to look legitimate - but costing you only 1%.

So just watch those little Italian men selling ice creams from a van down your street - just might be Mafia!


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