# TTS - quattro 4. gen Haldex, power distribution?



## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

Have anyone here any idea of the power distribution of the so called 4. generation Haldex in the TTS?

I know it can distribute up to 100% to the rear (or the front) when the tires looses grip, but what is the standard % distribution when driving "normal"?

I have tried some searches both here and other places, but so far without any luck....


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Arne said:


> Have anyone here any idea of the power distribution of the so called 4. generation Haldex in the TTS?
> 
> I know it can distribute up to 100% to the rear (or the front) when the tires looses grip, but what is the standard % distribution when driving "normal"?
> 
> I have tried some searches both here and other places, but so far without any luck....


Haldex 4 is the same as Haldex XWD, and i don't believe it's used on the TTS.
So far i know it will debut on the TT RS.

Hans.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

If its good enough for the bugatti, its good enough for the TT.


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

R5T said:


> Arne said:
> 
> 
> > Have anyone here any idea of the power distribution of the so called 4. generation Haldex in the TTS?
> ...


I know there has been done some new modifications to the Haldex in the TTS (the electric pump, software etc), but it might not be so major mods that they call it the Haldex 4?

The "problem" is to find any reliable information about it....


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

Here is something I found on the German site "Motor talk":

******************
"Hallo an alle, 
habe am Dienstag endlich meinen TTS Coupe in weiÃŸ bestellt.
Seit letzter Woche habe ich 3x mit dem Werk gesprochen, wie denn die Quattro Auslegung wÃ¤re.
Da wurde mir nach kurzer RÃ¼ckfrage gesagt, daÃŸ 60% hinten und 40% vorne der Motorkraft anlÃ¤ge.

Da widersprach ich verdutzt und teilte der Dame mit, daÃŸ doch die Haldexkupplung i.d.R 85% vorne und
15% hinten die Kraftverteilung hÃ¤tte. Hatte ja mal auch einen TT 1 Quattro gehabt.

Nach weinigen Tagen bekam ich einen RÃ¼ckruf und es wÃ¤re wirklich so. Konnte es immer noch nicht glauben
und rief bei einem vom Werk an, mit dem ich seit ca. 6 Jahren tel. Kontakt habe.
Der besorgte nochmals Infos direkt von der techn. Abteilung:

*Also speziell fÃ¼r den TTS wurde die Haldexkupplung komplett neu Ã¼berarbeitet, quasi Haldex 3, und es wÃ¤re
tatsÃ¤chlich umgestellt auf 60% hinten und 40% vorne, analog dem des RS4, den ich z.Z. auch fahre.*

**************

I am not the best in the german language, but what he says is that he has been in contact with Audi Werk (the Audi company - and no dealers) 3 times, and everytime they have told him that the "new reworked quasi Haldex 3" delivers 60% at the rear and 40% at the front, analog to the RS4 (with torsen - my comment), when normal driving. And the last answere was given from the techical department (highlighted above).

He wrote a lot more than this also (regarding other stuff), but he do says that he still can not belive this for 100% - but it has made him very excited about getting the car...

I am not saying that this is correct either, but it would be nice to find out what's the right answere here.... :?


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

Not the 60-40% i can assure you if it's Haldex 3 and i doubt it will have Haldex 4 (XWD)
The Haldex 3 system get fed from the right front driveshaft and "NOT" from a central point like "Torsen Quattro" do and have only one coupling @ the back.
In that case it means it can't get more then 50% of torque @ the rear.

The new Haldex (4) XWD (Saab 9-3 is the first with it) have 2 Haldex couplings.
One coupling @ the front and one coupling @ the back, this make it possible to transfer more power to the rear.

The info i have say the TT RS will be the first Audi to have Haldex 4 XWD.

It's maybe possible but i'm doubt it, that Audi will use Haldex 4 XWD on the TT RS but change the front Haldex Coupling for a Torsen diff to get continuous 60% of the torque to the rear wheels.
I don't see them using two systems together though, because the strength of Haldex 4 XWD are the two couplings.

Hans.


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

That is probabely why this german guy found it a bit hard to believe in as well.

But the "strange" thing is that I have heard "rumors" regarding the same figures from people that usually knows this stuff pretty well... :?


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## der_horst (Apr 29, 2006)

Arne said:


> Here is something I found on the German site "Motor talk":
> 
> ******************
> Da wurde mir nach kurzer RÃ¼ckfrage gesagt, daÃŸ 60% hinten und 40% vorne der Motorkraft anlÃ¤ge.
> **************


that was a funny thread, somewhere in there it is also claimed that the TTS has torsen...
to cut things short: it turned out to be bs, the TTS is not rear-biased and the mods to the haldex are very minor.

my recommendation would be to go to your local dealer and ask the guy on the computer to show you the haldex parts. just compare the part numbers to the ones of the standard TT and you'll know exactly what changed 

sadly audi doesn't tell it's customers much details, but that attitude has a long tradition, they even try to sell all systems as 'quattro', without even pointing out that there are two completely differen systems in use.

the official press release summarizes the haldex changes for the TTS as follows though



> Das HerzstÃ¼ck des quattro-Antriebs, die elektronisch gesteuerte und hydraulisch betÃ¤tigte Lamellenkupplung, arbeitet jetzt dank eines neuen Druckspeichers noch schneller als bisher.


which means that the haldex now has a new pressure accumulator to make it work quicker. that's all.


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## R5T (Apr 24, 2008)

That is the same part that is called HPP (Haldex Performance Part) upgrade unit.
You can put that on the 3.2 and get the same result.

Hans.


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## zoolander1977 (Jul 4, 2008)

hello,

just now I wrote an email to audi germany. I asked them which type of clutch is fitted in the TTS and details about transmission.

IÂ´ll keep you informed

bye
zoolander


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

zoolander1977 said:


> hello,
> 
> just now I wrote an email to audi germany. I asked them which type of clutch is fitted in the TTS and details about transmission.
> 
> ...


Thanks Zoolander,

I appreciate that, even though I do think Hans and der_horst are right :wink:

Looking forward to hear what kind of reply you get.

Regards
Arne


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## bootha2 (Oct 9, 2006)

I believe the existing default setting for the V6 is 85% drive to the front wheels and 15% to the rears. It sends more drive to the rears depending on road/driver inputs.

So unless you are reaking traction, it will not feel too disimilar to a fwd. You just have the confidence of the safetly net that 4wd brings when you push on harder

I assume this default setting is similar for the TTS


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## Jo Sharp (May 7, 2004)

der_horst said:


> > Das HerzstÃ¼ck des quattro-Antriebs, die elektronisch gesteuerte und hydraulisch betÃ¤tigte Lamellenkupplung, arbeitet jetzt dank eines neuen Druckspeichers noch schneller als bisher.
> 
> 
> which means that the haldex now has a new pressure accumulator to make it work quicker. that's all.


Correct, according to the info I have had on the new S3 Haldex which should be the same part: just responds faster to the computer demands.


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## zoolander1977 (Jul 4, 2008)

Arne said:


> zoolander1977 said:
> 
> 
> > hello,
> ...


hello arne,

I got a reply from audi ingolstadt. they wrote me:

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
*german:*

Sehr geehrter Herr xxx,

vielen Dank fuer Ihre E-Mail.

Es ist schoen zu lesen, dass Sie sich sehr auf die Abholung Ihres Audi TTS Roadster in Ingolstadt sehr freuen.

Gerne gehen wir in diesem Zusammenhang auch auf Ihre Anfrage ein:

Der speziell an den Audi TTS angepasste Allradantrieb quattro zeichnet sich durch eine noch kuerzere Reaktionszeit beim Verteilen der Antriebskraefte auf Vorder- und Hinterachse aus. Die Kraftverteilung betraegt bei normalen Umweltbedingungen - auf trockener Strasse - *40 % vorne und 60 % hinten*.

Wenn noetig, kann die Antriebsleistung stufenlos bis zu 100 % auf die vordere oder hintere Achse verteilt werden. Das bedeutet eine weitere Verbesserung fuer Traktion und Fahrdynamik. Aktuell wird beim Audi TTS die *Haldex Kupplung der 4. Generation* verbaut.

Wir hoffen, dass wir Ihre Fragen mit unseren Ausfuehrungen beantworten konnten, und wuenschen Ihnen schon heute einen wunderschoenen und ereignisreichen Tag in Ingolstadt. Gerne sind wir auch weiterhin Ihr Ansprechpartner.

Freundliche Gruesse aus Ingolstadt

i. V. Sandra Neumann i. V. Kathrin Fischer

AUDI AG 
85045 Ingolstadt 
Tel. +49 (0) 800 2834 7378423 
Fax. +49 (0) 800 329 26 2834 
[email protected] 
http://www.audi.com 
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

english:

especially for the TTS they have adapted the quattro system. a shorter reaction for power transmission to the front and rear. the transmission is under normal enviromental conditions - dry street - 40% front and 60% rear.

if its needed the transmission can be shared stepless up to 100% do the front or rear. this means a better traction and drivedynamic for the car. actually in the TTS is the newest generation of *HALDEX 4* build in.

okay, that was the interesting part of the reply.

I hope the email helps for a better understanding?

cheers
zoolander


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## ross2280 (May 11, 2005)

Actually thats pretty interesting info coming from Audi Germany...!!


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## Capercat (Jul 9, 2008)

However I wouldn't take it as gospel, but I sure hope its true


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## der_horst (Apr 29, 2006)

the problem with those info is that you need a certain amount of answers from different people to the same question to get the right picture. in the german forum there are also two official audi mails that confirm that the TTS uses the EA888 engine block but as we know that's not the case.

in the thread quoted by arne it was an audi official as well who confirmed that the TTS uses torsen, like the RS4 does. so unless i see that info in an official press release, which is usually more carefuly prepared by audi, i'll wait for more statistic samples before i believe anything the audi support guys tell 

if that was true their marketing would be a catastrophy, if they fail to mention that a TT for the first time in history was rear-biased. it would also make you wonder why that wasn't mentioned in any review and why the testers kept saying that you really have to work on the TTS to make the back come round even a bit.


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## Jimbo2 (Nov 30, 2006)

der_horst : Couldn't the same be said about most cars with 40:60 distribution?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the TTS was haldex 3 (even modified with a faster clutch) then oversteer wouldn't be possible at all would it..?


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

Zoolander - thanks, that was most interesting and I really wonder what is right. But what you got of an answere actually comply with the information I have gotten in Norway as well (from "Audi officials" here).

der_horst - it is not correct that the thread quoted by me earlier claimed or confirmed that the TTS uses torsen. It said something like the distribution was "an analog" to the RS4 - which is 40:60. It did not say that it was a torsen, so it was not a wrong statment - IF it's correct that the TTS has the 4. gen haldex with 40:60 distribution.... :wink:

edit: look at the powerslide/overstear at the end of this vid: 
http://www.drivers-republic.com/videos/ ... da7#videos

8)


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## der_horst (Apr 29, 2006)

Jimbo2 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the TTS was haldex 3 (even modified with a faster clutch) then oversteer wouldn't be possible at all would it..?


if you are good you can oversteer pretty much everything, it's only a matter if it's easily done with the right foot or if you have to fight for it with other means.

from the TTS tests i've read so far i didn't see anything about changed power distribution, only words about the lower MR. i'm pretty sure, that some of the professional testers would have noticed it, if the TT for the first time changed from front to rear bias. if audi really managed to bypass that by the testers, the first buyers and the marketing department i wonder if they are plain stupid to do so.

if it would be haldex4 i'd also be pretty amazed, looking at the specualtion threads of the TT-RS, where haldex4 is rumoured for some time now. if it was already driving around while big parts of the TT rumour commuity still speculate about it being used in the RS for the first time that would shed an interesting light on them 

so don't get me wrong, i have no problem with the TTS having it, i'd actually be relieved as that's good news for the RS, but keeping small revolutions like those secret sounds very audi-unlike to me and i can't really see any sense in doing so. that's why i'm still reluctant to believe it.


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## der_horst (Apr 29, 2006)

btw, according to the german board the part numbers for haldex4 are starting with 0BR while the old haldex had 02D and 0AV. you'll also need a second multi-disc clutch in the front for haldex4 (which does the magic in those cases where the back should get more than 50% of the power). so if you dont want to wait you can slip under your car and confirm the theory yourself


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## der_horst (Apr 29, 2006)

and another interesting info: in the german board someone claims that this change was not done for the TTS but for the new model year, which means the new 3.2 models will also have haldex4. now the current 3.2 owners seem a bit unhappy about that silent upgrade from audi (if it is for real)


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

It's not correct that the Haldex Generation 4 and Haldex XWD is one and the same. What is correct is that the XWD is an option to the Gen. 4 and will/can be sold as an option within the same platform.

The Gen. 4 was introduced in 2007 and the XWD are to be (has been?) introduced this year.

You can find a lot more information about this here: http://www.haldex-xwd.com/

Chose the "downloads" and read the pdf documents there.

I still have no idea what kind of Haldex system there are in the TTS, but I guess its a "standard" Gen. 4. I tried to have a look under the car, and from the pics I have seen it looks to be the Gen. 4. But I still don't have a clue to what the standard power distribution is.....

I have sent Haldex a few questions though, and if they answere I will post it here.


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## der_horst (Apr 29, 2006)

not sure about the differences either, so far i thought xwd and haldex4 was a different name for the same thing.

but in the meantime i can confirm that the transversal platform as of now uses the haldex4 (don't ask me which haldex4 variant, that info about variants came up after the check was done ). that includes the TTS (from the beginning), the rest of the TTs (this month the switch will be complete for all engine variants) and even the A3. the spare parts catalogue actually is a good source for detail-information


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

der_horst said:


> not sure about the differences either, so far i thought xwd and haldex4 was a different name for the same thing.
> 
> but in the meantime i can confirm that the transversal platform as of now uses the haldex4 (don't ask me which haldex4 variant, that info about variants came up after the check was done ). that includes the TTS (from the beginning), the rest of the TTs (this month the switch will be complete for all engine variants) and even the A3. the spare parts catalogue actually is a good source for detail-information


Good to see I was right about it being the Haldex 4. What that means regarding "standard power distribution" is another thing that still seems "unresolved". But I am looking forward to wintertime to see if "powerslides" (which is very fun in the snow) are easily done and controllable with the Haldex 4....(under controlled conditions offcourse :wink: )


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