# Urgent News for Laser Jammer Users!!



## 55JWB (May 7, 2002)

Big heads up Boys n Girls......

_December 2004

A friend of mine who has been using a jammer for over 4 years got arrested this week. (Dec 04)

Here is the story of what happened.

At 6 am a police car and a low loader turned up outside his home. He was arrested and the car was loaded on to the low loader. He was taken to the local police station, his car was taken to the police vehicle inspection unit. The jammer was tested to see if it jammed, as you can expect it did. The jammer was removed, 50min job.

In the mean time my friend was questioned and then was charged with "perverting the course of justice". The worrying part is this. He had been seen in one county by a laser camera van that could not get his speed. A few months later he had been seen in another county by a separate safety camera van again it could not get his speed.

This then sparked the event at 6 am .... How you ask..

It has turned out, after speaking to several contacts in the police force, they have had the camera equipment software modified to photograph any vehicle that throw up an error, any error. When the video is checked at the camera units base and an error is reported the event is logged as a warning flag on the PNC database (police database).

When another camera van operator takes his video back to base to check over, if he discovers an error he will check on the PNC database to see if there are any warning flags on that vehicle.

If there are no flags on the PNC for that car then one is added. If the PNC has a flag on it saying they have had a problem in the past they will investigate further. This was the case for my friend and the guy in Northampton

To make matters worse my friend was not speeding on both occasions.

As I have said he was charged and then bailed to reappear. I let you know the outcome in late January.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have had a chance today to talk to several police forces and the DoT and they can confirm this is what they have all been doing. It is because the DoT wanted to know just how many jammers were in use in the UK. The belief is that there are over a million jammers fitted to cars in the UK. I think this figure is a little high but you never know.

This work has been conducted to gather data prior to the proposed application for a ban in January 2005. If the ban goes through its expected to take effect within 6 months.

The ban will cover, Radar Detectors and Laser jammers. GPS will be safe as they have no intention to ban them._

More Here

Its just not right!!


----------



## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

This was warned about at the AMD RR day ages ago. Quite scary that a little device can get you in deep trouble and get you a record that could affect your career and live ahead.

Most employers ask whether you have any offences apart from motoring ones. Perverting the court of justice is not one that they'd look kindly on.

Passive detection for me. :?


----------



## DXN (May 18, 2002)

Can they be set by GPS to be aware of the speed limit on a set area and only be used/activated if you are in excess of that set speed.

ie GPS tell the detector the position of the car and therefor the speed limit and the car tells the dector the speed of the car. Jammer active if speed is > limit (or is that a too perfect world)


----------



## Parrot of Doom (Dec 18, 2004)

The best advice is to remove the jammer when it has been triggered by a scamera van, and wait a few weeks. If you can easily remove it after each journey, thats all the better.


----------



## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

Parrot of Doom said:


> The best advice is to remove the jammer when it has been triggered by a scamera van, and wait a few weeks. If you can easily remove it after each journey, thats all the better.


The police making good use of their resources again.

Must involve collecting money from us!

Shame they dont spend time catching real criminals - oh hang on they cant get money from them!


----------



## Domh (Nov 12, 2004)

Jammers have always been illegal - Radar Detectors used to be, currently not, maybe soon to be again!

Apparently an auto garage door opener has the same signal as a radar/laser jammer though - u could always say its one of those instead!


----------



## speed_67 (Feb 19, 2004)

If the chap wasn't actually speeding, how can he have been perverting the course of justice?

Is it merely the ownership of one of these devices causing the charge? If not I'd go down with all guns blazing, asking the police what speed they actually thought I was doing etc. :x :x :x


----------



## 55JWB (May 7, 2002)

It was his mate saying he was not speeding, more on the link implies that the safety camera partnership had seen him pass them blatantly speeding 16 times!! 

Its not OK to speed, equally in my book though its not OK to bash the motorist all the time. we are soft targets for the revenue generating civil cervants! :x


----------



## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

seems to me that you need either a switch to disable the jammer when you are travelling at legal speeds, or a speed related switch to enable it only if overdoing it a bit... not that I condone speeding in any way... but on a completely empty motorway at 1am....


----------



## MikeyB (Sep 30, 2004)

Am I right in saying that an electric garage door opener acts as a jammer but is legal if you are using it legit?

We have an electric garage gate at work, and I have the option of fitting a device to open it when I get close. This would also act as a jammer though?


----------



## teucer2000 (May 14, 2002)

Surely the whole point of a jammer is to avoid being caught when you are speeding....ergo, you are obviously attempting to pervert the course of justice.


----------



## MikeyB (Sep 30, 2004)

No. The whole point of a gate opener is to open electric gates. Unfortunatley  it acts as a laser jammer.....

How would this one stand up in court?


----------



## 55JWB (May 7, 2002)

teucer2000 said:


> Surely the whole point of a jammer is to avoid being caught when you are speeding....ergo, you are obviously attempting to pervert the course of justice.


In some cases you may be right, however I was in a flow of traffic all travelling at the same speed on a two lane section of road. I was zapped doing 37 mph, if I had managed to jam the initial 'lock' very easily adjusted my speed I would have avoided Â£60 and 3 points and 3 years of increased insurance premiums :x I would have one for just that purpose.

Not to blatantly travel a crazy speeds, endangering myself and others.


----------



## Wak (May 6, 2002)

Chip_iTT said:


> seems to me that you need either a switch to disable the jammer when you are travelling at legal speeds, or a speed related switch to enable it only if overdoing it a bit... not that I condone speeding in any way... but on a completely empty motorway at 1am....


Next project request..........

you know the 2 speed limit warning buzzers in the Dash/DIS ........

Can they trigger a 12v output for me? please?


----------



## teucer2000 (May 14, 2002)

> Not to blatantly travel a crazy speeds, endangering myself and others.


Trouble is, how can the police differentiate between someone who generally is law abiding and those who might use the jammer to escape being caught consistently breaking the speed limit?


----------



## Wak (May 6, 2002)

The other point being if you are doing 40 in a 60 and jam a laser van....are you perverting the course of justice?

or was there no justice to be served? :roll:


----------



## Wak (May 6, 2002)

the cases mentioned seemed to imply serial offenders ie they were known to evade a number of times.

Surely they were taking the piss and although a chance indiscretion can be be considered acceptable and you are careful next time in the area, driving like you are invincible deserves a slap.. :?


----------



## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

no Wak... al internal signals... BUT here are two ideas...

1/ there are two 'buffered' speedo outputs on the dash which pulse at the road speed - 1Hz = 1mph, 160Hz=160mph.... it would be easy to devise a frequency measuring device that would switch a relay on at a given speed (encoded on 8 dip switches 0 - 255, or 2 banks of 4 for two signals in 10mph steps 0 - 15 e.g. 9 - 159mph)

2/ A wired gps receiver using the NMEA protocol has a standard 'sentence' $GPRMC which includes current speed. It would be easy to read this in a microcontroller and switch relays accordingly. Only a cheap gps mouse needed as this 'sentence' is the only mandated output of any NMEA compatible device.

The former is easier but needs wiring into car, the second is slightly more complex and is completely standalone


----------



## Wak (May 6, 2002)

Chip_iTT said:


> 2/ A wired gps receiver using the NMEA protocol has a standard 'sentence' $GPRMC which includes current speed. It would be easy to read this in a microcontroller and switch relays accordingly. Only a cheap gps mouse needed as this 'sentence' is the only mandated output of any NMEA compatible device.
> 
> The former is easier but needs wiring into car, the second is slightly more complex and is completely standalone


this I already have available to me vis a serial port.... just need a small PC to read the signal and operate a relay at my preset speed level.

I'll have it done by this after noon! :roll: :lol:


----------



## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

Who needs a PC... I can do that in 11 components ....

PIC Microcontroller
crystal resonator
100mA 5v regulator
mini relay
8w DIP switch
2 signal diode
3 capacitors
1 resistor

 in a matchbox

<Â£10 of bits...


----------



## Wak (May 6, 2002)

hmmmmph......

nobody like a smartarse! :lol:

well...we do....but I'll say it anyway....
:wink: :lol:


----------



## PaulRS3 (May 7, 2002)

thanks to 55JWB for the heads up, whilst i only have a GPS geodesy, ive mirrored the warning to tyresmoke users too.


----------



## tactile (Dec 3, 2004)

I think anything illegal you use should not go unpunished ,you are breaking the law !!!


----------



## Wak (May 6, 2002)

tactile said:


> I think anything illegal you use should not go unpunished ,you are breaking the law !!!


says he who never goes above 30 in a 30, or 70 on the motorway! :lol:

so if using a car legally but traversing the road limits illegally and breaking the law is ok, does that mean its ok to use a legal garage door opener that may interfere with something else?

If you come back and say you have never broken the speed limits .... I wont believe you until I've spoken to your entire family and friends! :lol:

(I know the solution is the GDO should be on a push/on switch so its only on when you press a button near home... but thats just a technicality.)


----------



## dj c225 (Nov 3, 2004)

I dont use a jammer at present, but use my GPS Satnav with loaded pois to warn of speed cameras and i use a Radar scanner (Snooper).

The Snooper is great, warns of all types including lasers and active cameras and cameras on buses... if the ban goes through and radars are banned i will be very sad along with many others..


----------



## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

As I understand it only ACTIVE devices will be banned...i.e. those that actually emit a jamming signal or interfere with the speed measurement in some way.. passive devices such as GPS or radar signal alerts will still be OK and anyway they can't be detected externally...

on the subject of active devices...while illegal it would seem that the detection of these is only when the laser range finder detects an interference and returns an error.... presumably if they were fitted in such a way that they could be removed easily it would be hard to get a prosecution unless you were actually stopped with one installed... as the ban is on operating not owning...

Ideally you would want a solution that doesnt cause an error but fools the laser range finder into calculating a lower speed... tricky tho


----------



## Parrot of Doom (Dec 18, 2004)

Its just another revenue earner. We're all well aware of the fact that speeding at 100mph down a motorway or dual carriageway doesn't cause accidents.

I tell you, we (the public) will only be pushed so far, and then mayhem will break out. You can already see the signs, radar/laser jammers, gatso destruction, over-signed roads 'fixed', veggie oil in your diesel (my fave in my last car heh heh heh).

The police are losing respect and authority across the board.


----------



## dj c225 (Nov 3, 2004)

One thing i dont like about Police in this country, they treat you with no respect at all, even when your not at fault. This really makes me mad :evil:


----------



## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

Parrot of Doom said:


> *We're all well aware of the fact that speeding at 100mph down a motorway or dual carriageway doesn't cause accidents.*


Well I'm not sure I'd agree 100% with that... like all things 'it depends'.... certainly those speeds on an open road in good conditions and no traffic is a different issue to poor light/wet road/coming up on a junction with joining traffic who have no idea of your approach speed....

fact - higher speeds = less time to react to incidents... its not speed that is dangerous per se, its the ability of the driver to handle it... which is why I feel the emphasis should be on better driver training and awareness instead of trying to regulate everyone to some outdated idea of whats safe... if the legislation on tailgating and keeping ones distance was rigidly enforced there would be far fewer accidents at *any* speed, but since thats hard to do and/or prove, speeding is the soft option...

how would you (collectively) feel about legislation that said on the motorway you can do, say, 120mph, but only if your car is fitted with automatic distance/speed management that cannot be overridden once it determines the traffic density ahead exceeds some given level


----------



## MacBuff (Aug 11, 2004)

MikeyB said:


> No. The whole point of a gate opener is to open electric gates. Unfortunatley  it acts as a laser jammer.....
> 
> How would this one stand up in court?


Looking at the 'Configurator' on the Audi website you can get a garage door opener fitted as standard equipment. Would these act as laser jammers, and if so are Audi themselves up for the high jump for offering these.?

John


----------



## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

I think the two issues that would have to be considered are:

1/ output power... a door opener with 10m range would need only one low-power laser diode not 4 or more high-power units as found in a jammer...

2/ modulation... a door opener would detect a query signal from the door and respond with a short burst of data to verify identity before the door is opened... not a huge burst of random data lasting a second or more...

if your device did both of the above and could be shown only to be able to do that an expert witness could probably argue in your favour... but don't quote me on this....


----------



## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Wak said:


> The other point being if you are doing 40 in a 60 and jam a laser van....are you perverting the course of justice?
> 
> or was there no justice to be served? :roll:


You forget something!! How is the police capable to verify that you were doing 40mph in a 60mph area if they couldn't read your speed??

Of course 40 and 60 is a huge difference and nobody normally drives so much below the speed limits. But i you were doing 55 instead of the limit of 60 how would the police know this? Or how would you prove this to the court?

All they know is that your car has a device fitted which after inspection is illegal.

On another note. Something else that you mentioned before. I thought your (and others) jammers, emmits a jamming signal only once and with a beeping sound to you, that will allow you to slow down and on the second reading will allow the camera to read your speed. Is this correct? Or only some jammers do this?


----------



## Domh (Nov 12, 2004)

If you have a garage door opener fitted, surely you only operate it when you are in front of the garage door, not travelling down a motorway!

I think they may have issues with you operating it then!


----------



## Wak (May 6, 2002)

vlastan said:


> Wak said:
> 
> 
> > All they know is that your car has a device fitted which after inspection is illegal.
> ...


yes you are correct, Check out http://www.lt450.co.uk/default2.htm

It just starts to get very grey again as it was with radar detectors until it was proven in court they only detect and not interpret.

the GDO does what it says on the tin and claims if it doesnt get a signal from your coded laser from your garage door it shuts down, it says this specifically in the manual, to allow speed reading.

The law would have to go straight to the jugular and look at the supply of any laser device on this frequency. the LRC100 had no other purpose than jamming.

for example... Is there a law against a motorist owning a laser gun and using it to read speeds on vehicles in front of him? i.e. Could he own a laser emmitting device that although not specifically a jammer could interfere with a beam coming at him from in front. :?


----------



## 55JWB (May 7, 2002)

Wak said:


> vlastan said:
> 
> 
> > Wak said:
> ...


There was a rumour that the active cruise controll on the Nissan Primera had the same result... It uses a laser type beam to keep a distance from the car in front, not sure how the other active cruise devices work???


----------



## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

Wak said:


> ....
> the GDO does what it says on the tin and claims if it doesnt get a signal from your coded laser from your garage door it shuts down, it says this specifically in the manual, to allow speed reading.
> 
> The law would have to go straight to the jugular and look at the supply of any laser device on this frequency. the LRC100 had no other purpose than jamming.
> ...


IIRC, all LED laser devices in the infrared operate on or around 908nM... there are many devices which would do this... would carrying the remote control for a TV be illegal for instance? The law could not disallow devices per se it would have to be quite specific about the purpose of the deivce as fitted and its operation. You will note that the prosecutions so far are for perverting the course of justice... not for the carrying or using of a device... they could make the use illegal but would be much harder to make the fitting or carrying one illegal unless very specific about the device... also all legal garage door openers meeting DTI specs would not normally prevent a laser range finder from working given sufficient signal acquisition time (5 secs+ say).

And there is no law (as yet) about active speed/distance measuring devices - most will use infrared for cost and to avoid MPT licence regualtion issues required for radio devices, so anyn law banning jammers will have to be careful not to regulate against safety equipment based on similar techniques...

but knowing the way this government have been slipshod about drafting legislation to date....


----------

