# Winter Whheels and tyres



## Edinburra (Aug 19, 2016)

Any tips on this matter, I've a 2.0 S line quattro coming in Nov and am wondering what to do? :?:


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

Only clue as to where you are is Edinburra, but maybe depends on weather forecast as this year would you have needed them, based on poorer performance unless < 10 degrees.


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## cheechy (Nov 8, 2006)

A few years back I picked up a 2nd hand set of 18" mk2 speedlines.

I've now had them refurbed twice and also now onto 3rd TT and original Vredestein wintrac extremes on them. Been on my mk2 TTS, TTRS and now mk3 TTS. All fit fine.

So my setup is: Summer OEM 19" TTS rims with Yokos, changes wheels to 18s and Vredestein for Winter.

Oh - I work in Edinburgh


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## no name (Feb 16, 2014)

I wouldn't even bother unless live in the highlands


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## Edinburra (Aug 19, 2016)




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## Edinburra (Aug 19, 2016)

Thanks Cheechy.


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## forthay (Feb 23, 2014)

I picked up a set of 18" S-Line Mk2 alloys and put ContiWinterContact™ TS 850 a couple of years ago when I had a Mk2. The good news was I'll be able to use the same on my Mk3 This year. I noticed the difference straight away and wouldn't be without them during the colder months in Edinburgh. Highly recommended.


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## drmrfi (May 27, 2012)

Winter compound tyres are recommended when temperature of the road drops below +5 degrees.
To use summer tyres below zero temperatures one has to be extremely skilled, careful or stupid


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## Edinburra (Aug 19, 2016)

drmrfi said:


> Winter compound tyres are recommended when temperature of the road drops below +5 degrees.
> To use summer tyres below zero temperatures one has to be extremely skilled, careful or stupid


 My thoughts entirely.


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## noname (Aug 20, 2015)

I would add, few degrees in more are ok but winter tyres are only for the cold season!
depends from you city temperatures or if you go very often in places with extrem conditions.

You can try all season tyres if your temperatures are acceptable, not the best choice for a sport car if you race, but at least them help in many situations better than normal tyres of course, and you can use them all year.


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## sherry13 (Oct 8, 2013)

I'd like to see clearer messages from the car industry backed up by relevant statistics about the safety benefits of Winter rubber. At the moment, it looks to be more of a marketing thing than a real benefit. That's no criticism of anyone here, but the industry needs to make more of a case, as at the moment it looks like a gimmick - like buying protection insurance you'd never need to use.

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## drmrfi (May 27, 2012)

sherry13 said:


> At the moment, it looks to be more of a marketing thing than a real benefit. That's no criticism of anyone here, but the industry needs to make more of a case, as at the moment it looks like a gimmick


I don´t know what you´ve been reading, but winter tyres are no gimmick.
There´s plenty of information about winter tires available.
With quick Googling I found these videos, they provide no hard data, but give a demonstrative idea of differences between summer vs. winter tyres in same conditions.


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## sherry13 (Oct 8, 2013)

"No hard data".

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## drmrfi (May 27, 2012)

The data is there, if you are prepared to look for it.
Or are you expecting that somebody serves it to you on a silver plate?


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## sherry13 (Oct 8, 2013)

So how's your Monday morning going?

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## Edinburra (Aug 19, 2016)

For me, there are two points that make winter tyres an essential.
1) It's not the number of wheels that are driven that matter it's the number that GRIP that matters. 
2) Braking distances are significantly less with winter tyres in adverse winter conditions. 
I am fully aware that there are other points but these are the ones that do it for me.


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## GrantTTS (Mar 18, 2016)

I can only give real world experience using winter tyres on my last three cars, Mercedes and BMW (excess of 250bhp rwd).

Although living in the South East, in winter the authorities are not as prepared as more northerly areas and up until a couple of years ago had a daily commute 40 miles each way cross country they provided confidence that normal tyres did not. My road has an uphill bend with a T junction at the top on the incline requiring a stop and start, my neighbours and I have been stuck many times in front wheel drive cars requiring a push or spade to get moving again, winter tyres I nor my wife have been stuck at the junction. With my Mercedes my wife being a district nurse used to request to use it rather than her Mini as it got places in bad weather she could not reliably access. 
I think the real interesting thing with winter tyres is the confidence they give in poor conditions not just snow and ice but lower temperatures in the wet too. I can not say when they were providing benefit over summer tyres in cold conditions as they are transparent in operation but the fact that I never got stranded and never had the back end swap with the front etc probably says it all. I would suggest that until you have tried them don't ignore them. I would have a set of winter wheels and tyres right now for the TTS if I was using it as a daily drive.


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## sherry13 (Oct 8, 2013)

GrantTTS said:


> I can only give real world experience using winter tyres on my last three cars, Mercedes and BMW (excess of 250bhp rwd).
> 
> Although living in the South East, in winter the authorities are not as prepared as more northerly areas and up until a couple of years ago had a daily commute 40 miles each way cross country they provided confidence that normal tyres did not. My road has an uphill bend with a T junction at the top on the incline requiring a stop and start, my neighbours and I have been stuck many times in front wheel drive cars requiring a push or spade to get moving again, winter tyres I nor my wife have been stuck at the junction. With my Mercedes my wife being a district nurse used to request to use it rather than her Mini as it got places in bad weather she could not reliably access.
> I think the real interesting thing with winter tyres is the confidence they give in poor conditions not just snow and ice but lower temperatures in the wet too. I can not say when they were providing benefit over summer tyres in cold conditions as they are transparent in operation but the fact that I never got stranded and never had the back end swap with the front etc probably says it all. I would suggest that until you have tried them don't ignore them. I would have a set of winter wheels and tyres right now for the TTS if I was using it as a daily drive.


Thank you, this is very informative - much more so than the YouTube videos, which I had already seen (and discounted on the basis that the first is an actual advert, and the second breaks YouTube rules by not mentioning the clear partnership the producers would have had with Continental. It's amazing how marketing people can serve up their spin on a plate to the lazy and the gullible).

Your post answers it because it's "real world" - I am not interested in how a manufacturer says its own rubber does in Sweden but essentially what I need to know is if they are relevant for England. This is the info that seems inconsistent (even people in the YT comments section were accusing the videos of lying about the tyre's benefits). I was especially interested in your comments on confidence because even with Quattro, I don't feel too confident in pouring rain and my front wheel drive mark2 was hopeless in snow.

If there are real safety benefits for driving on them in this particular country, then it's certainly something I would consider (have been considering) - but it's a big investment of money and resources (and space!) - which is why there needs to be third-party endorsement like this and more analysis and information about how they can help in our typical Winters.

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## GrantTTS (Mar 18, 2016)

If you are worried about the investment. There are a couple of commercial mitigations. Your normal tyre life is extended because the wear is shared across two sets, I found winters seemed to last well after typically three winters I would have several mm left (typically around 5mm). For my car I always had/have separate wheels of matching style in 1 inch smaller diameter giving a taller sidewall so changing was a matter of minutes and I have bags and a wheel rack on the wall in the garage. Taller sidewalls are more tolerant of pot holes, can honestly say I don't think i have had to have a winter wheel repaired. When I changed cars always had buyers eager to buy so maximised return and funds rolled into the next car's set. As an aside Insurance companies are not allowed to charge a premium or amendment fees for installing/removing winter wheels and tyres.


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## sherry13 (Oct 8, 2013)

Edinburra said:


> For me there are two points that make winter tyres an essential.
> 1) It's not the number of wheels that are driven that matter it's the number that GRIP that matters.
> 2) Braking distances are significantly less with winter tyres in adverse winter conditions.
> I am fully aware that there are other point but these are the ones that do it for me.


Interesting - have you decided what to do? No doubt your dealer will give you a quote for some but I am sure you can get them cheaper elsewhere, not that you need anyone telling you that. I am inching closer to doing it, but also need to know more about what they do in terms of noise, fuel performance and "sportiness" and also to research all-year options. It's all a bit vague and there is lots of brand preference going on out there.

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## sherry13 (Oct 8, 2013)

GrantTTS said:


> If you are worried about the investment. There are a couple of commercial mitigations. Your normal tyre life is extended because the wear is shared across two sets, I found winters seemed to last well after typically three winters I would have several mm left (typically around 5mm). For my car I always had/have separate wheels of matching style in 1 inch smaller diameter giving a taller sidewall so changing was a matter of minutes and I have bags and a wheel rack on the wall in the garage. Taller sidewalls are more tolerant of pot holes, can honestly say I don't think i have had to have a winter wheel repaired. When I changed cars always had buyers eager to buy so maximised return and funds rolled into the next car's set. As an aside Insurance companies are not allowed to charge a premium or amendment fees for installing/removing winter wheels and tyres.


Thanks - some great points there, especially on the economies of owning a second set and the installation/removal non-costs. And I love the idea of having a garage, but that's a luxury in these parts. Storage is a real barrier to doing this / I really need to move!

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## drmrfi (May 27, 2012)

sherry13 said:


> Thank you, this is very informative - much more so than the YouTube videos, which I had already seen (and discounted on the basis that the first is an actual advert, and the second breaks YouTube rules by not mentioning the clear partnership the producers would have had with Continental. It's amazing how marketing people can serve up their spin on a plate to the lazy and the gullible).


Please don´t dismiss these videos being just marketing crap.
Snow and cold wet slippery roads are not that different in Sweden, Germany or Britain.
I selected these videos just to those who do not have first hand experience on winter tyres to get the general idea.
Like I said earlier, search engine is your friend if you want more detailed and independed information and data.

But sitting behind the keyboard is not going to get anybody much wiser on this subject.
To really appreciate the benefits of winter tyres they need to be driven and experienced.

I´ve got nearly 30 winters experience on different winter tyres and believe me, they are no TV Shop gimmick.


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## R_TTS (Mar 16, 2016)

Winter tyres are definitely no gimmick, and are of course mandatory in many parts of northern Europe. I personally don't see the need for them in Southern England though. I appreciate some posters on this thread are from more northerly climates.


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## Edinburra (Aug 19, 2016)

sherry13 said:


> Edinburra said:
> 
> 
> > For me there are two points that make winter tyres an essential.
> ...


I will be buying a set of winters c/w wheels probably 225/ 17R 50. Now where do I get the best deal? I'd like to use Goodyear tyres whatever.


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## drmrfi (May 27, 2012)

Edinburra said:


> I will be buying a set of winters c/w wheels probably 225/ 17R 50. Now where do I get the best deal? I'd like to use Goodyear tyres whatever.


You should get a complete set of original Audi wheels and set of winter tyres delivered for around £700-800 from German eBay.
Search eBay.de, for example "audi tt 8s winter 17".


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## Soundside (Aug 1, 2016)

I'm planning on buying the Nokian Autobahn winter tires 245/35/19 to go with the stock rims. We get a lot of snow and ice here in Sweden. A bit hesitant to the wide track tires though but I don't want to buy new wheels for the winter. Would it be ok during really snowy and icy days with 245's?


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## sherry13 (Oct 8, 2013)

Quite a discussion on brands here: 
viewtopic.php?t=1167785
And here:
viewtopic.php?t=1124137

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## Soundside (Aug 1, 2016)

sherry13 said:


> Quite a discussion on brands here:
> viewtopic.php?t=1167785
> And here:
> viewtopic.php?t=1124137
> ...


Thanks! 8)


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## drmrfi (May 27, 2012)

Soundside said:


> I'm planning on buying the Nokian Autobahn winter tires 245/35/19 to go with the stock rims. We get a lot of snow and ice here in Sweden. A bit hesitant to the wide track tires though but I don't want to buy new wheels for the winter. Would it be ok during really snowy and icy days with 245's?


My wife´s TT has 245/35-19 Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 -tyres fitted on original 9x19 wheels for winter.
No problem based on last winter´s experience.

As you are based in Sweden, I´d recommend you to look into Scandinavian / Nordic spec of winter tyres (friction or studded, whichever you prefer).
European spec winter (friction) tyres are pretty useless in Scandinavian winter.


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## Soundside (Aug 1, 2016)

drmrfi said:


> Soundside said:
> 
> 
> > I'm planning on buying the Nokian Autobahn winter tires 245/35/19 to go with the stock rims. We get a lot of snow and ice here in Sweden. A bit hesitant to the wide track tires though but I don't want to buy new wheels for the winter. Would it be ok during really snowy and icy days with 245's?
> ...


Thanks, great info! I thought the Nokian autobahn tires was proper winter tites for Nordic winters, plus that they can handle more speed. I'll probanly go with friction since there's mostly wet asphalt anyway.


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## Edinburra (Aug 19, 2016)

drmrfi said:


> Edinburra said:
> 
> 
> > I will be buying a set of winters c/w wheels probably 225/ 17R 50. Now where do I get the best deal? I'd like to use Goodyear tyres whatever.
> ...


Thanks for the heads up I'll try eBay when the time comes.


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## drmrfi (May 27, 2012)

Soundside said:


> Thanks, great info! I thought the Nokian autobahn tires was proper winter tites for Nordic winters, plus that they can handle more speed. I'll probanly go with friction since there's mostly wet asphalt anyway.


Nokian WR (Autobahn) series are optimised for central European winter (cold wet roads and high speed driving).
They are bad / even dangerous in real winter conditions (snow and ice).

If lowish speed rating (170 km/h) is not an issue for you, your best studless choice is Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2, which is a multiple test winner in Nordic winter.


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## sherry13 (Oct 8, 2013)

Well that clears it up.

Winter tyres are an absolute must, apart from the ones that are unsafe and dangerous in winter weather. And they happen to sound like the ones that would be ideal for UK winters and the TT.

My concern remains; what is the ideal compromise for a sporty car (and as Toshiba has said, one that depreciates 35% in the first year) in UK winters?

Do people really want to put fugly performance-limiting Nordic-busting rubber on a sporty car for 6 months of the year when they've deliberately bought a car for its performance?

I'm a fan of the idea of winter wheels and improved safety (who isn't on the latter?) but aside from YouTube commercials, there isn't a massive amount of data on which to get for this particular climate.

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## Jonny_C (Jul 24, 2013)

sherry13 said:


> Do people really want to put fugly performance-limiting Nordic-busting rubber on a sporty car for 6 months of the year when they've deliberately bought a car for its performance?
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Well, consider it this way;

On my old FWD Mk2, on good quality Dunlops with 6mm of tread & cold (5/6 deg), wet roads, I was spinning up wheels and torque-steering all over the place on even moderate throttle out of roundabouts in 2nd or 3rd.

Same temp, same road wetness, but with Dunlop winter tyres; full throttle, no traction lights, little torque steer.

So now I can use the performance of my car which was previously limited by the tyres.


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## Edinburra (Aug 19, 2016)

Jonny_C said:


> sherry13 said:
> 
> 
> > Do people really want to put fugly performance-limiting Nordic-busting rubber on a sporty car for 6 months of the year when they've deliberately bought a car for its performance?
> ...


Good post, sums up the why of winter boots.


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## sherry13 (Oct 8, 2013)

Interesting. Perhaps a concise way of putting all this is that for the UK, the tyres you mention (Dunlop and equivalents) would be ideal for our average Winter conditions as a genuine safety measure. Meanwhile, if it's a blizzard out there - just don't drive in it.

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## steve_collier21 (Apr 13, 2011)

Can I ask a supplementary? What is it that makes some rims suitable for winter use?

Here in Norway this is a topical question for me right now. I've had a Mk3 since May 2015ish. It only came with one set of 19" rims but a set of winter tyres. I used these last winter but I would rather have an extra set of rims (as most people in these parts do). I'm not sure whether to get some reasonably priced rims or go for expensive OEM rims. And I am not sure whay some websites have rims marked suitable for winter use. Any comments on rims would be appreciated.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

I've only bought one set of winters, and that was for my MK1. I looked at some tyre reviews and picked the ones that performed best in the wet and dry, instead of the ones that perform well in the ice and snow, as winters in the south of England are usually either cold and dry or warm and wet.

It was the Nokian WR G2 or something like that. Even though they weren't the best bad-weather, they were still M+S tyres and the difference they made in ice and snow was staggering. Snow the car was happy to drive about with ESP off (as it can be) and full throttle, great fun. On the roads there just wasn't any fuss. Compacted snow/ice was probably the biggest improvement. Black shiny ice it still slipped around a bit on, but I was happily going round corners that people were abandoning and turning around for.

After owning them I am a _big_ fan of winter boots. That said, last winter I didn't put them on as it just simply didn't get cold enough. Whilst mornings were often down to 5°C, by the middle of the day we were often around double figures, and the winter tyres were noticeably less perfomant at these temperatures. The two days that it was icy on the untreated roads I frequent I really missed them but it was just a couple of days, and I just drove extra paranoid.

If you drive on treated roads, there probably isn't that much use in the south, but if like me you do a lot of lane driving then they are a god-send. And your morning commute becomes really quick on the really bad snowy days as nobody else dares go into the lanes and you have free run.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

steve_collier21 said:


> Can I ask a supplementary? What is it that makes some rims suitable for winter use?
> 
> Here in Norway this is a topical question for me right now. I've had a Mk3 since May 2015ish. It only came with one set of 19" rims but a set of winter tyres. I used these last winter but I would rather have an extra set of rims (as most people in these parts do). I'm not sure whether to get some reasonably priced rims or go for expensive OEM rims. And I am not sure whay some websites have rims marked suitable for winter use. Any comments on rims would be appreciated.


Traditional thinking is as skinny as possible, skinny tyres put more pressure on a smaller surface area and have more chance of digging in. Also you probably don't want low-profile as you have a higher tendency to play pin-ball with curbs when they're covered in snow. I'm toying with the idea of getting a set for my MK2 RS, and Audi recommend 18x8 for those, which is as big as wheels got in the summer on the mK1


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## Jonny_C (Jul 24, 2013)

Dash said:


> steve_collier21 said:
> 
> 
> > Can I ask a supplementary? What is it that makes some rims suitable for winter use?
> ...


I found a set of OEM 18s on eBay to match the 18s on my MK2, so had same (245/40) winters as summers, on the basis I wanted traction / grip in wet/cold, with ability to get around if I had to in snow (i.e. snowed while I was at work). Smaller diameter / skinnier is all good in theory when snow guaranteed, but on a cold, wet UK road, maybe not.

Fortunate that I can now use the 18s to replace 19s on my TTS in depths of winter - may only put on for Dec/Jan/Feb


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## steve_collier21 (Apr 13, 2011)

I should have made myself a bit clearer: I wondered if there was something about the metal, coating or materials that made a rim more suitable for winter.

The demo Mk3 I bought came with one set of OEM 19" rims 8S0601025F and two sets of tyres. On German ebay these are listed as winter rims. In practice, before and after every winter I have to change over the set of tyres, get them rebalanced, etc. I'd rather have two sets of rims, like most people do here.

Driving wise, I was wary of having the same 19" summer and winter but I have no complaints about the winter ones.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Probably best to avoid sharply cut wheels, such as the diamond faced ones. There is so much salt and other horrible stuff getting coated over them, they get a lot of abuse. Likewise, I'd assume steel wheels weren't the best idea either. Keep the pattern simple to it's easy to wash out crap and maybe not go for an open style allow and reduce the amount of stuff entering into hub area.


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## sherry13 (Oct 8, 2013)

Saw an ad for one of these at the always-glamorous Welcome Break near Watford. Anyone any experience of them, or thoughts, as I need (at least one) tyre replacing. 









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## Edinburra (Aug 19, 2016)

For those who want further proof of the prowess of winter rubber have a look at Auto Express in their section on Accessories and Tyres. They would appear to me to carry out exhaustive tests on tyres both winter and summer that have taken differing climates into consideration.


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## sherry13 (Oct 8, 2013)

I'm interested in any experience of the cross-over all-season as per advert above or similar. The idea of owning 8 bloody tyres and storing 4 for half a year in this very changeable weather (UK) doesn't appeal and no-where to store tyres.

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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Have you seen this review on the cross-climate?
http://www.evo.co.uk/features/15600/mic ... ason-tyres

Looks like a pretty good winter tyre for the UK, but according to the article only go up to 17" which won't do my MK2 :/


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## Jonny_C (Jul 24, 2013)

Suspect that at present, the cross-climate tyres are a little bit too much of a compromise for "performance" cars. Every review I've seen for various makes suggests not as good as summer tyres in warm, dry, not as good as winter tyres in cold, wet.

Probably OK for a 1.6 Focus for doodling about in, or if you absolutely don't mind not having the "best" tyre on for stopping / turning.

So a compromise whichever way. IMHO they need further development before good for higher power TTs.


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## sherry13 (Oct 8, 2013)

Dash said:


> Have you seen this review on the cross-climate?
> http://www.evo.co.uk/features/15600/mic ... ason-tyres
> 
> Looks like a pretty good winter tyre for the UK, but according to the article only go up to 17" which won't do my MK2 :/


Definitely an interesting piece, they seem to like the tyre and other similar ones. For me it's the only option - nowhere to store tyres and the weather is so changeable, especially well into Spring, that's when the all-seasons would come into their own.

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## KevC (Jul 12, 2016)

sherry13 said:


> nowhere to store tyres


ATS have a tyre hotel. For something like £30 they'll look after your other tyres for the winter and vice versa.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Jonny_C said:


> Suspect that at present, the cross-climate tyres are a little bit too much of a compromise for "performance" cars. Every review I've seen for various makes suggests not as good as summer tyres in warm, dry, not as good as winter tyres in cold, wet.
> 
> Probably OK for a 1.6 Focus for doodling about in, or if you absolutely don't mind not having the "best" tyre on for stopping / turning.
> 
> So a compromise whichever way. IMHO they need further development before good for higher power TTs.


But that's the catch with UK Winters, sometimes there is snow, but mostly it's about 2°C and dry. Or -5°C and covered in ice. You don't need full-blown alpine tested snow tyres, you need something that's not going to fall apart in the snow but also perform in the dry at temperatures that summer tyres harden to plastic.

That's my annoyance with the tyre comparison tests, they don't do the same comparisons at differing temperatures.

My hunch is that you'll be better off in the dry with a Cross-Climate at freezing temperatures than a summer tyre.


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## carrock (Mar 17, 2011)

Dash said:


> Have you seen this review on the cross-climate?
> http://www.evo.co.uk/features/15600/mic ... ason-tyres
> 
> Looks like a pretty good winter tyre for the UK, but according to the article only go up to 17" which won't do my MK2 :/


They do 225/40/18


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## no name (Feb 16, 2014)

I decided to try out some Uniroyals.


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