# TTOC splitting away?



## smiarmstrong (Dec 5, 2015)

Did anyone else get that e-mail about TTOC splitting away from TT Forum ?

Does the forum have plans to establish an owners club of it's own, as the forum owners comment about contacting it's legal team regarding removing TTOC flags was interesting to say the least.

Interested to see where this goes because the TTOC forum isn't upto much.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, Yes Email received & posted on TTOC web site & TTOC FB forum.
Can't see the point of another Owners Club as most meetings etc are organised through the TT Forum anyway. 
Hoggy.


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## Bartsimpsonhead (Aug 14, 2011)

I obviously haven't received the letter as I'm not a member (Edit: but I have now [smiley=deal2.gif] ), but an interesting development - and something I suspected they'd do for a while now.


Nem - from the thread "The site seems much quieter now" 18/01/16 said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > (To John-H) You're such a trouble maker but the speaker of truth and justice.
> ...


I'm figuring the Forum would continue to function exactly as it has always done - provide help and information to everyone free of charge, be a place people can exchange ideas and socialise and arrange attendance for events, and will continue to be used by TTOC-members and non-members alike.

If the OC want to disassociate themselves from the Forum then they're free to do so - they are 'exclusive' not 'inclusive' after all. 
And as it's completely their choice to split, with the Committee thinking it's their best course of action for the future of the Club, then good luck to them.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Well I just one my pie in the sky one million pound bet on who would post :roll:


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## Bartsimpsonhead (Aug 14, 2011)

jamman said:


> Well I just one my pie in the sky one million pound bet on who would post :roll:


Yeh, it's kinda predictable Hoggy would post - the big know-it-all seems to have an opinion on everything...

...oh, wait.. no... what?.. 

:wink:


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> Yeh, it's kinda predictable Hoggy would post - the big know-it-all seems to have an opinion on everything...
> ...oh, wait.. no... what?..  :wink:


Hi, [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=dude.gif]

Hoggy.


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

Never seen a single benefit of TTOC anyway, the forum is where the info/help is, I dont feel I have missed out having never been a member of TTOC .


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > Well I just one my pie in the sky one million pound bet on who would post :roll:
> ...


one ! ! ! wtf spelling James you dumb asssssssssss......


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

So they've finally gone and done it. What was the straw that broke the camel's back?

I presume we'll see no orange names then?


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## Sweetz (Sep 17, 2015)

Forgive me for my lack of knowledge on this but what was the difference between here on TTOC?

Was there some link at one stage between the two...?


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## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

Sweetz said:


> Forgive me for my lack of knowledge on this but what was the difference between here on TTOC?
> 
> Was there some link at one stage between the two...?


In summary:

Here is part of a multi-million pound/dollar company making money by advertising etc

The TTOC is a group of enthusiasts working for the TT enthusiast.

However the bs politics between the 2 entities, especially since JAE sold the TTF to a multinational has caused a lot of friction between a number of individuals.


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## Audiphil (Oct 23, 2012)

I enjoy both the forum and the TTOC it's a shame it's come to this.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Bartsimpsonhead (Aug 14, 2011)

mighTy Tee said:


> In summary:
> 
> Here is part of a multi-million pound/dollar company making money by advertising etc


True that. Vertical Scope own and run 600+ websites covering everything from automotive, sports, pets, technology, health, etc, and their list of car sites is pretty extensive - http://www.verticalscope.com/automotive/site-list.html

Of course the money they make off the advertising from all of these sites means they can run this website for free to us TT enthusiasts. It's their business, for them to make money off, they have staff and offices and costs to cover (just as many, many other businesses do), so making money is a good thing. And it doesn't cost us 1¢ to use it.
They also seem open to the idea of putting some money in to buying advertising materials (i.e., flags, etc) for events, which obviously goes to promote the site further, and maybe stumping up the odd stand booking fee* as Forum members increasingly want to attend events as a group without shelling out to join the Club. 
*I could be wrong on that.

I'm kinda hoping that along with complying with the TTOC's request to removal their logo from the top-right corner VS might spend some time revamping this site a little - maybe start with updating the information in the 'ABOUT TTF' page so more people know exactly what the TTF is and who ownes it. It'd save this kinda confusion (at the moment is still says it's owned by iCandi which is TTF founder Jae Taylor's company in Germany).



mighty Tee said:


> The TTOC is a group of enthusiasts working for the TT enthusiast.


Yep, no doubt the OC is run by enthusiasts who want to run events and things their way, with their own website and twice yearly magazine, for which they charge people £25 to become a member (£20 p/a renewal). Currently about 1000? members. I used to be one (for three years), but they put the yearly membership prices up (from £15 to £25) - I became an ex-member.



mighty Tee said:


> However the bs politics between the 2 entities, especially since JAE sold the TTF to a multinational has caused a lot of friction between a number of individuals.


True that too! Though having now read the TTOC letter I find it, er, 'surprising' that the Club thought they had any chance of success demanding VS (a BIG company!) remove Forum Admins/Mods/Rep who they thought were against them, and that 'we' (the normal Forum users who demand it) should stop organising ourselves in groups at events (since we're excluded from the Club's stand.)
Do they expect us to go to events and just wander around like lonely cattle? Nope, that's not for me - I want to meet up with other enthusiasts and be free to choose who I do it with.

With the rise of the many TT/Audi groups on social media (some of which I've heard were set up by people fed-up of the in-fighting on here) who are organising their own events this demand for Forum members to stop organising their own groups seems a moot point - people will just organise themselves other ways with other groups on other media and off of the TTOC/Forum sites and out of eithers control. (Which isn't a bad thing, and people should have the freedom to do what they want.)

But if the TTOC want to go and do their own thing then good luck to them. I'm sure things will change for both sites - hopefully both can find their (common) audience and thrive.

But as far as I've seen on here and on other sites there's been very little discussion about the TTOC leaving the Forum - are people just not that bothered? Is it too early in the 'car season' for people to notice, or care? Are people generally apathetic as to who organises their Club/Forum/Group, as long as they don't have to do much and it just 'works'?
Discuss&#8230;


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## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

Bart - Strangely I had expected you to reply, however I am surprised by your reply, a well thought out and mature, considered reply. Thank you.

Having been on the TT scene for around 13 years I have seen changes and attempted changes (not many will remember TT-quattro.com attempt to overthrow the TTF) come and go, but the common factors throughout the time (with the exception of a wobble in 2003) have been the TTF and TTOC. Unfortunately the TTF has been the more dominant, more so (IMO) because it is a profit motivated organisation.

There are rights and wrongs on both sides:

(a) the long term apathy by the owners of the TTF which goes back before VS but you highlight below shows that VS don't care about us



Bartsimpsonhead said:


> ....... VS might spend some time revamping this site a little - maybe start with updating the information in the 'ABOUT TTF' page so more people know exactly what the TTF is and who ownes it. It'd save this kinda confusion (at the moment is still says it's owned by iCandi which is TTF founder Jae Taylor's company in Germany).


(b) the long term apathy of TTOC members (this is not a criticism of individuals) which means only 2 chairmen in 13 years (IMO - the constitution should not allow a term of more than x years)

(c) the ongoing politics and hostility between personalities

I am sure though that the same general BS politics exist in other clubs like TVR, MG etc

As a long term TTOC and TTF member, I have taken sides more so with the other side to you, but in reality I have pulled back from the TT ownership experience, partly because I cant be arsed with the above politics, partly because the demographics of TT ownership have changed and partly because my life has moved on.


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## Mr Funk (Apr 27, 2014)

I don't get involved in any of this, seen it happen to other forums (Vzi and, in a different way, CGTi) and people seem to forget that this is all just a hobby at the end of the day and not the end of the world.
Car clubs are a strange old business (been heavily involved as a member, founder and ran one for a long time).

Are the Forum owners the same people that bought Vzi as well?


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Ordinarily you'd think the two factions would be stronger together but in this instance we have a clash of personalities who have 'history'. There have been a number of attempts to broker a resolution but largely they have come to nothing because of an apparent unwillingness to submit to requests or reach a compromise.

Some people have questioned the need for a Club magazine such as AbsoluTTe, produced by the TTOC. Well in my opinion you have to liken it to checking the options list when ordering a new car. For some it is a vehicle for a more complete membership, whilst for others it is a waste of money and largely irrelevant. I don't think the bleating from either camp will change that.

But I suppose the cost of producing that magazine is one of the largest expenses carried by the TTOC. That cost along with the other marketing tools used by the TTOC has to be covered by the membership fee.

So those believing the magazine to be a waste of resources have cited the expense of producing it as one reason for not joining. The TTOC - to it's credit, has tried to allay that and answer it's critics by offering a tiered membership - again like an options checklist. I don't know how successful that choice has been in building membership but from what I can gather, TTOC membership currently stands at around 1000 members.

I have no doubt that the internal bickering has damaged membership, yet that same bickering has been going on here too. I have no idea if the TTF has been similarly affected in terms of membership but one thing is clear - being free to access has been enormously beneficial in building it to be 'the world's greatest TT resource'. Plus it isn't encumbered by the geographical limitations that the TTOC seems to be.

There seems to also be a lot of mention of apathy within the ranks. To those I say, "Are you really surprised?!"

As a longer term member here and a previous member (sometime on the committee) I can see why. Long-term owners are frustrated, angry, disappointed, sad and let-down. New users come on here and are confused by the two clubs. For a long time the TTF has been proclaimed as being 'Home to the TTOC' yet it isn't. The TTOC is a different club with it's own identity and it's own forum that is closed to everyone except members. Consequently it isn't as busy as this one - there's only so much 1000 members can talk about!

For what it's worth, in my opinion both forums need to up their game. The TTF looks old-fashioned and is blighted by (necessary) adverts plonked randomly within the content. The TTOC by contrast looks more modern but stifles it's popularity by insisting on a paid membership.

The TTOC is missing a trick in my book. If they made their forum open to free membership then I should imagine they may get more visitors. It is up to them to then convert those visitors into paying members at whatever level. At least this way new blood would be able to see what benefits the TTOC offers - at the moment they see none.

The TTF has a huge advantage in numbers. But the format is tired and not fluid enough. It needs modernising and I should imagine that would take some time. Plus it requires investment from the owners so probably a whole raft of hoops to go through.

By contrast the TTOC is relatively lean and small. It has the functionality in place and on the face of it could pull this separation off. But they need a fundamental change of constitution and a willingness to accept change. I'm not 100% confident that they're prepared to do that.


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## Hark (Aug 23, 2007)

Sold my TT 6 years ago and still the TTF / TTOC civil war rages on. As much as I like some of the members involved on both sides (and have helped me out years ago) people need a reality check about what they're arguing about. Life really is to short to care about stuff like this.


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## shao_khan (May 7, 2002)

Reading all this takes me back to the Audi-sport.net breakup that led to the formation of Tyresmoke.net and audisport going into corporate ownership.

I've been round a couple of years now, I think I sit firmly in the apathetic camp as i've seen this all before and I'm sure we'll see it again.

Its just a shame people can't get on


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