# Supercharge my Lotus or sell it?



## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

I would normally post this on a Lotus board, but I'd like to get the perspective of non-Lotus owners as they may be a little more objective.

I bought my normally aspirated Exige new in April '05, when it had what I considered to be the 'perfect' spec for me (colour, spec, options) at a discounted price of Â£31.5K. Since then various more powerful Exige models have been released, using supercharged versions of the same Toyota engine. The 220hp 'S' models cost around Â£6K more with an equivalent spec & 240hp models cost more than Â£14K more, albeit with better suspension (that I have since added). Lotus Sport are now offering the 240 supercharger conversion for n/a cars for around Â£10K.

At the same time, German and Swiss aftermarket tuners have been jumping onto the same bandwagon, albeit using a different (they would argue better) supercharger/intercooler combo that provides a higher output (~260bhp) and takes up less space, without obscuring the limited rear view. Conversions are TUV approved and cost around â‚¬10K (a little under Â£7K) and road tests against the Exige 220 show a 0-60 of 4.2 versus 4.6 and 0-100 of 9.5 versus 11.2.

Meanwhile, the existing engine conversion business for older style Elise models (those with Rover K series power) has really flourished, with a whopping 300hp available via either supercharged 2.0 Honda VTEC or big-turbo VAG 1.8T linked to 6 speed gearboxes from the respective manufacturers. These cars have a much better power to weight ratio than any of the supercharged Toyota-engined cars, but the conversion cost is around Â£13K without the donor car (Â£11K for a late model S1) and probably the best part of Â£6K on wheels/tyres, suspension, brakes, seats, etc. The same Honda & Audi conversions can also be had without the supercharger / bigger turbo, offering 250 and 220hp respectively for Â£3K less.

I want more power and the question is, what should I go for:

a) Sell my Exige for Â£23K and buy a used Exige S with 220hp for Â£34K - Â£10K spend, plus probably another Â£2K for adjustable suspension
b) Spend Â£7K on my Exige and get an aftermarket 260hp conversion - Â£7K spend
c) Spend Â£10K on my Exige and get Lotus to take it to 240hp - Â£10K spend
d) Sell my Exige for Â£23K, buy a 2000 S1 for Â£11K, spend Â£19K on it to take it to 300hp - Â£7K spend
e) Sell my Exige for Â£23K, buy a 2000 S1 for Â£11K, spend Â£16K on it to take it to 220/250hp- Â£4K spend

Thoughts welcomed on these 5 options.

Cheers
Rob


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## 225sTTeve (Jan 13, 2006)

I know this may not be in the forefront of your mind now as your objective is more power, but, what about other factors.

In terms of hassle / convenience, option 1 to buy the 'Genuine' Exige sounds like a neater package. Also I suspect this would have the highest residuals.

The other options are IMO are similar with different degrees of involvement.

Will the Exige S have any other improvements and will it be on a newer reg plate?

If you go for either option 2 or 3 then either way meets your need but option 3 will give you an older car for the same money.

For me it would be option 1 as this would give you all your power, the newest car, the highest residuals (I hope) and hey....... its a new car and we all love getting a new car


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Rob - They all sound like incredible amounts to spend on a car. The cost to value ratio is huge. I guess it all comes down to how much you fun you'll get out of the extra expense.

Biased view - mod your own car and then sell it to me in about 18 months time. Of course you know you don't ever get your money back on mods


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

225sTTeve said:


> I know this may not be in the forefront of your mind now as your objective is more power, but, what about other factors.
> 
> In terms of hassle / convenience, option 1 to buy the 'Genuine' Exige sounds like a neater package. Also I suspect this would have the highest residuals.
> 
> ...


Cheers. I have updated to say that Â£34K would only buy a used Exige S (new price Â£38K), whereas mine has been mine since new.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Rob,

Given the problems you've had to date with the car, i'd (IMHO) either go for the Lotus Upgrade, thus retaining some Warranty leverage or sell your current Exige & buy a newer more powerful version, again retaining warranty.

So A or C


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

Flog yours now and wait for one to come up that has already been done. In the meantime, use your Trophy for any trackdays over the winter.


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## TTwiggy (Jul 20, 2004)

how about selling your car and buying a VX220 Turbo? I'd guess that a turbo engine would be more modable, and you'd probably make money in the deal as the Vauxhall prices are very low for what you get. If this is a car that's mainly for track use, then IMHO badge snobbery shouldn't be a factor.


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## PhilJ (Sep 2, 2002)

Hi Rob

I canâ€™t really give you an unbiased view, but having put a Honda engine + S/C in my car, Iâ€™ll give you my two pence worth.

For outright performance, an early Elise with Audi or Honda power is the way to go. You have more potential for BHP and you have a far better power to weight ratio, as the car is lighter to start with.

However, with any significant engine conversion, there are always question marks over reliability and resale. So far the Honda and Audi conversions are proving reliable, but I still think there is more chance of niggling issues affecting a converted car than a factory car. If you have easy access to one of the recognised tuners, then no big deal, but if not, this could be a real pain.

Resale is a difficult one. Lotus has a habit of releasing new models that undermine the values of their existing models â€" look at whatâ€™s happened to the 240r. However, the market for converted and heavily modified cars is always more restricted. I think you can make arguments either way regarding residuals, but there does seem to be a healthy demand for Elises with Audi or Honda engines (provided the conversions are done by respected companies).

I had my car converted in April. Iâ€™ve done about 3000 miles so far, with about one third on track. I am still struggling to get used to it. I hadnâ€™t appreciated how difficult it is to get the best out of a significantly more powerful car on track. Itâ€™s bloody good fun though. The car is also far better to drive on road.

Swapping your car and Â£10k of your money, doesnâ€™t make the extra 30 to 40 bhp or so offered by a Exige S or 240r seem that good value. Are Exige Sâ€™s or 240r, Â£10k quicker than your car?

Knowing what I do now, I would go for an S1, or a short-tail roofed S2 (like a 135r), with a N/A Honda. This would be around 70 to 80 bhp down on what I have now, but on track I reckon it wouldnâ€™t be that far behind a 240r, if at all. It then leaves huge tuning potential for little additional outlay. It also provides a more manageable step up performance wise.

It will be interesting to see how next seasons LOT Racing Series develops. There will be loads of different Elise / Exige derivatives competing, so it should be possible to draw some conclusions as to which offer the best performance and reliability.

Out of your options, and assuming you have easy access to a tuner, I would go option d, but without the S/C, which would save you Â£4k ish. You can then add the S/C at a later, and this doesnâ€™t work out that much more expensive than doing it all at the same time.

Value for money wise, Carlos is bang on. Sell yours now, and wait for a nice converted car to come along. I am sure you could negotiate with the main tuners for some kind of aftermarket warranty, if the car is out of warranty. If you are intent on a factory car, I would go for a 240 cup.

Cheers

Phil


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Option c.

Is it a factory or dealer upgrade? I assume factory, in which case you Â£7K probably gets you a few additional value adds not available to the aftermarket:

- sort any outstanding snags with car
- latest version SW/firmwares etc
- shake down test and set up (might they tweak chassis to latest S settings too?)
- the benefit of the overall factory experirnce curve effect with the car and all of it's evolutions.

What about just getting an R400/R500?


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Option c was a 10k outlay. I assume the second option c was, in fact, option d - which was a 7k outlay.


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

Kell said:


> Option c was a 10k outlay. I assume the second option c was, in fact, option d - which was a 7k outlay.


Oops - yes, option d is the Â£7K outlay to change to a highly modified S1. I've also added option e for lower state of tune Honda/Audi conversions, per PhilJ

Keep 'em coming

Cheers
Rob


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> Option c.
> 
> Is it a factory or dealer upgrade? I assume factory, in which case you Â£7K probably gets you a few additional value adds not available to the aftermarket:
> 
> ...


Option c is from the manufacturer's own aftermarket tuning arm, but the value adds still apply.

I'm not hardcore enough for a Caterfield, but if I were, the R500 would be at the top of my list.



W7 PMC said:


> Rob,
> 
> Given the problems you've had to date with the car, i'd (IMHO) either go for the Lotus Upgrade, thus retaining some Warranty leverage or sell your current Exige & buy a newer more powerful version, again retaining warranty.
> 
> So A or C


That's ironic coming from the guy who had his SMG rebuilt under warranty despite having a DMS upgrade 

I've only had one problem, which was a (standard) valve breaking. It was replaced under warranty and the car remains under warranty until the end of April 2007.

Part of me likes the idea of having 'my' Exige (only 18 months old, remember) outperforming the newer factory cars. People expect an S or Cup cars to go faster than the n/a Exige.



PhilJ said:


> If you are intent on a factory car, I would go for a 240 cup.


I don't have enough cash to get a 240R or 240 Cup 

Cheers
Rob


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

I love irony.

In Spa i thought you were fairly dead set on the VAG225 Upgrade as Â£forÂ£ it gave huge performance gains & of course with a little nip, tuck & map here & there you'd be looking at 270/280 without much trouble or cost.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)




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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> I love irony.


We know. It's just a shame that you can't bring yourself to love the same bit of irony for more than a couple of monthsy.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Carlos said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > I love irony.
> ...


Ah a fellow Bl'adder fan Mr 'los:

Blackadder: Baldrick, have you no idea what irony is? 
Baldrick: Yes, it's like goldy and bronzy.... only it's made out of iron...?!?!


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## justtin (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> Rob,
> 
> Given the problems you've had to date with the car,


What kind of problems have these been?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Carlos said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > I love irony.
> ...


Certainly more than a couple of months (not much mind) :wink:

As the saying goes, "a change is as good as a rest".


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## CH_Peter (May 16, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> Carlos said:
> 
> 
> > W7 PMC said:
> ...


Not for your wallet. :wink:


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

W7 PMC said:


> Carlos said:
> 
> 
> > W7 PMC said:
> ...


You must be very well rested :wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

wallsendmag said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Carlos said:
> ...


It aint that bad.

Others have changed more frequently than me. The M5 is only my 3rd car since April 2004 so only 3 cars in 2yrs & 8mths.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

W7 PMC said:


> wallsendmag said:
> 
> 
> > W7 PMC said:
> ...


The new TT is my third car since .....March 99


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> In Spa i thought you were fairly dead set on the VAG225 Upgrade as Â£forÂ£ it gave huge performance gains & of course with a little nip, tuck & map here & there you'd be looking at 270/280 without much trouble or cost.


I was, right up until the developer of the VAG kit for Rover K series engined cars took a look at a Toyota engined car and decided it was too much trouble 

If it was available, it would still be my first choice because the 1.8T engine is far more tuneable than the Toyota VVTLi.


justtin said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Rob,
> ...





b3ves said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Given the problems you've had to date with the car....
> ...


Generally I would say that the car has been extremely reliable, exceeding my expectations. However, because of the problem I had with the valve, it meant that I couldn't take it Spa (where I last met Paul) and at that point I was more than a little p'd off.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

b3ves said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > In Spa i thought you were fairly dead set on the VAG225 Upgrade as Â£forÂ£ it gave huge performance gains & of course with a little nip, tuck & map here & there you'd be looking at 270/280 without much trouble or cost.
> ...


I can understand that.

Sorry if i mislead anyone. Still the Clio was mucho fun & possibly slightly more comfortable for the Euro cross country.

So the VAG 1.8T is not now an option??


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> So the VAG 1.8T is not now an option??


Sadly not. He had a good look at a Toyota-engined car and came back saying that there were so many differences with wiring, mounts, etc. that it would be uneconomical to develop at this time


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

Rob:

NA Honda-powered S1: *294 bhp/tonne*
Std Exige S2: *210 bhp/tonne *
Exige S2 260bhp: *302 bhp/tonne*

GT2 *321 bhp/tonne*
Noble M12 GTO *324 bhp/tonne*

What you want from your car: 
- Home-to-track-back-to-home functionality
- Low on consumables
- Premiership level dynamics...

.....you have this already.

What you don't have, is the power to keep up with more well-endowed cars after you've caught 'em up in the corners :roll: . 
A supercharger will give you this, and you will still have outlayed significantly less than a 240 Cup and have a quicker car (esp with the Nitrons and so forth), 
This counts for even great value IMO, especially as this is:
a) A car you know and..
b) A car you want to keep (ie: the only thing missing is more power)

So, as discussed on the blower last night, Â£7K on a TUV-approved supercharger upgrade is a complete no-brainer, go for it [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## TJS (May 6, 2002)

Keep the car and add a Bermani supercharger kit ... job done.

I notice Lotus are doing their favourite trick of dipping their marketing toe in the water via the latest uprated Cadena GT limited edition which will no doubt become standard spec in 6 months time.

The option packs on new 220S cars are currently subject to big discounts ... you can knock c.Â£2k of the usual "list" price.

TJS


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## PhilJ (Sep 2, 2002)

Hi Rob

Not sure if you have seen this, looks pricey, but a nice spec.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/117862.htm

The ForceFed conversion for Toyota Engined Elise / Exige looks really good value for the performance offered.

Cheers
Phil


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

PhilJ said:


> Hi Rob
> 
> Not sure if you have seen this, looks pricey, but a nice spec.
> 
> ...


Yeah, saw that on PH following on from the SELOC thread where everyone said it was expensive. If I were still looking for an S1 I would seriously consider it as an alternative to buying a donor car, although I was flirting with the idea of an Audi conversion having driven one recently.

Right now I'm hoping to keep my Exige and go down the ForceFed route and will be going out for a Pax lap in the Weltmeister demonstrator with Phil Bennett of BTCC fame at Silverstone this Sunday.

Will let you know how I get on.

Cheers
Rob


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

b3ves said:


> PhilJ said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Rob
> ...


That's a nice bit of kit for sale on PH. I wonder whether I'd have been interested buying it when I was in the market for the VXR? 25K is a LOT to spend on an S1 is it not?


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

Stu-Oxfordshire said:


> b3ves said:
> 
> 
> > PhilJ said:
> ...


That's what put me off in the end, i.e. the idea of having to spend Â£13K on an engine conversion + another Â£3-5K on brakes, suspension, seats, etc. on a car that's only worth Â£11K to begin with.


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