# APR Stage III 2.5T FSI Development Thread



## jonnyc

Hey,

So I thought while I keep my build thread up to date, I should really post in here too for all info that is related to the new 2.5T FSI APR Stage III kit.. As a lot of info on my build is just specific to my car.. I suppose it keeps all the Stage III stuff in one place too..

(mods, not sure if you want to merge some of these threads?)

So here goes..

First of all, here are some pictures of the CAD drawings..

As you can see, everything has been thought of, all dimensions of the engine bay measured using a robotic arm to create a CAD model of the space available to best design te components, not only for ease of fitment, but also best performance!










































The manifold, intake pipe and exhaust downturn will all be cast using the highest quality Inconel for fantastic longevity..

At the moment im not sure what the plans are for the exhaust post downturn, but I expect a single 3" pipe..

From that, there are rapid Prototype SLA moulds manufactured for test fitment to the engine.. This phase is to be sure that all parts designed fit and will work in the way that they are intended in the CAD phase..

Here you can see the SLA's of the Manifold and Turbo charger..


















































These parts are about to be test fitted, any changes that need to be made can be referenced from this test fit before the parts go to casting..

And here is a picture of the first rapid cast Inconel manifold!!










To be honest it's not a long time until the final parts will be installed on the car and testing will begin..

At every stage I will keep this thread updated for reference and hopefully give some insight into the development process that APR are employing with this kit.. I for one, have been extremely impressed with the quality of the work seen so far and can't wait to see more!!

Until soon..


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## suffeks

is it me or do i remember reading in some post you saying revo is better than apr when they released their australian chip? 

they are redoing software for the CEPB i am waiting for months now! i am hoping its more refined and not so torq'y


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## TTRS_500

suffeks said:


> is it me or do i remember reading in some post you saying revo is better than apr when they released their australian chip?
> 
> they are redoing software for the CEPB i am waiting for months now! i am hoping its more refined and not so torq'y


why are they redoing the software?


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## R5T

XXX


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## jonnyc

R5T said:


> Hello Johnny, you are the man.
> 
> The top 5 pictures are the ones i really looked forward to. :wink:
> 
> btw, can this turbo kit be installed without pulling the engine. ?


Cool aren't they!!.. And please find answer to that last question in my following post..


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## jonnyc

*Update..*

Got around to the test fit of the SLA pieces today.. Everything seems good which means things should start happening fairly quickly now!!..

Firstly, a comparisson photo.. OEM Manifold/Turbo vs. APR Stage III Manifold/Turbo


















Next up.. You can see just how tight things are with the stock turbo..










Interestingly, the new manifold and turbo, although far more capable, seem to be almost no larger in size, and there seems to be plenty of room to spare.. (I think this means BIGGER turbo APR) hehe..










And now.. Just some more pics.. Will look so cool once all the final parts are installed!!!


























Thats about it for now.. Next up, the OEM turbo will be re installed while parts get cast..

Once all the parts are ready, then the car will be back in, to have the first real prototypes installed, and shortly after.. Ill get to see how she goes with the new hardware and software installed!!

Can't wait!!!!


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## R5T

XXX


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## suffeks

TTRS_500 said:


> why are they redoing the software?


that original i think was done by australia division, now that they have their own car in house in the USA, they want a 2nd go at it, i think they said it will be more refined which is good, i dont want the feeling of power dropping off at redline in exchange for all the torq down low, but we will see

it should be out this month, the soft is already done, the car is now used for making the stage3, however the stage1 software isn't released because they are finalizing hardware for dealers so they can port flash the new secure ecu's, including the B8 S4, once dealers get the hardware the chip for CEPB will be out


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## TTRS_500

suffeks said:


> TTRS_500 said:
> 
> 
> 
> why are they redoing the software?
> 
> 
> 
> that original i think was done by australia division, now that they have their own car in house in the USA, they want a 2nd go at it, i think they said it will be more refined which is good, i dont want the feeling of power dropping off at redline in exchange for all the torq down low, but we will see
> 
> it should be out this month, the soft is already done, the car is now used for making the stage3, however the stage1 software isn't released because they are finalizing hardware for dealers so they can port flash the new secure ecu's, including the B8 S4, once dealers get the hardware the chip for CEPB will be out
Click to expand...

port flash on the tricky new ecu's sounds good!


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## jonnyc

R5T said:


> It's really engineering of the finest to get it fit into the small space behind the engine when you look at it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if the OEM airtube will fit right on there. ?
> Would be nice for a stealthy look.


That's the plan.. The stock intake will be compatible with the Stage III kit also.. Perfect for those who like an OEM look.. But with the extra punch!!..


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## jonnyc

Just a few more pics..

Manifold being worked on the CNC..










Some more SLA parts..










And it's starting to look like its coming together now!!..


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
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## R5T

XXX


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## LEO-RS

APR hardware so APR software Jonny?

revo vs APR discussions at the dinner table, has your missus divorced you yet :lol:

Good stuff though, nice to see you take another path, Im sure this kit will be top notch and provide incredible acceleration figures. Will it be ready by the MLR event which is in 2mths time, are things moving quickly? Weight coming out too or is that a gradual process?

Looks very interesting indeed, very cleverly designed to be able to utilise the stock downpipe and intake. How about the feed and return lines? Glad that its US based too, the tuning market there being a hell of a lot cheaper than the tuning market in rip off Europe.

Can see APR shifting a few of these units, Im in the US in June, wonder if they'll have a kit for me to buy and bring back home in my suitcase


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## Mule

You just SO gotta make them turn it around like I said it should be.

They have to learn by VW motorsport the kit they made for the 24H Golf on the Nurburgring.

Otherwise you woul end up with a damn hot intake pipe on long runs and the exhaust bend to the vband looks like a bottleneck to.

http://www.eurocarnews.com/media/pictor ... 1/6004.jpg


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## jonnyc

The calibration controls the EGT's ..

As much as you think the kit should be redesigned I really believe its going to be just fine as it is, I don't see any issue..

As far as the downturn goes, that has been designed using CFD software and I can assure its no bottle neck what so ever!!


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## R5T

XXX


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## Mule

Have they prepared EGT sensor mounting hole?



jonnyc said:


> The calibration controls the EGT's ..
> 
> As much as you think the kit should be redesigned I really believe its going to be just fine as it is, I don't see any issue..
> 
> As far as the downturn goes, that has been designed using CFD software and I can assure its no bottle neck what so ever!!


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## jonnyc

Mule said:


> Have they prepared EGT sensor mounting hole?


Of course.. The OEM EGT sensor will be retained.

All of the calibration will be such that everything runs as it does with the OEM system.. Some changes will be made but of course, the safety factor will be there and I have total confidence that the kit will be 100% reliable and FAST..



R5T said:


> The turbo could be turned 180º bringing the cold side close to the airbox.
> 
> This is still the ideal way to do it IMHO.


Realistically this would make very very little difference at all in terms of performance advantage.. Lets think, the ONLY benefit of redesigning the whole turbo and boost system on the car would be to save a few degrees of radiant heat from the exhaust manifold washing over the intake pipe..

Agreed, for an out and out race car, yeah, why not turn everything around. But for me, well, ill just ceramic coat the intake pipe if thats required, and that will probably run cooler than it would with a 180 degree spun turbo and no treatment.. Plus, with the high flow cast inconel manifold, the radiant heat will be greatly reduced not only due to the material being used but the fact that the EGT's will be SO much lower..

One of the many massive plus points of this kit will be that the engine bay will look basically stock when its installed.. Fitment will be for both RHD and LHD cars with the same kit.. The kit will be compatible with the OEM intake plus the OEM turbo discharge pipe and therefore intercooler too..

Customers will be able to upgrade their cars to full stage 2+ spec (Map/Intake/Exhaust/Intercooler) and then buy the Stage III kit and not loose any of the previous purchases.. That has to be the best way of doing things for certain.. I don't like buying things twice, and neither do most people..

-----------

As for a little update..

I should have some more pics up very soon of the final test fit of all the SLA pieces together on the car.. Apparently it looks fantastic!  Ill get them up as soon as I have them online!


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## jonnyc

*Update..*

Ok guys.. Some more pics to take a look over..

Pretty much all of the SLA pieces installed, including some nice images of the SLA oil hard lines, all OEM quality for best performance and reliability!


















And check this out.. Nice 3.5" v-band divorced waste gate downturn.. All build up in CAD and flow tested using CFD software!!..










Now all of the fitment has been checked with the SLA pieces the parts will all now go to be cast for the first two prototype kits to be installed.. One on the APR US car and the other on mine!! Feel pretty lucky if I'm honest to be getting my hands on this so early!!

Its really feeling its getting close now.. And I'm getting EXCITTEEEEDDDD!!

For all others out there.. This is how it SHOULD be done


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## mrdemon

And I'm getting EXCITTEEEEDDDD

Have you got a new GF based at APR giving you blow jobs or some thing.


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## jonnyc

mrdemon said:


> And I'm getting EXCITTEEEEDDDD
> 
> Have you got a new GF based at APR giving you blow jobs or some thing.


Im surprised you know what one of those is David.. Never mind being able to spell it


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## jonnyc

*Update..*

Hey all..

Ok, so things are moving forwards pretty nicely now! Nice big update with a load of pretty pictures..

Probably easiest if I take it step by step as there are quite a few pieces that have suddenly popped up!

First of all, and one of my favourite pieces so far!!

*Cast Inconel turbo downturn*

Featuring 3.5" V-Band connection to the down pipe, and a divorced wastegate design.. All designed using CFD, so it works too!!


































Just check out the flow inside of that thing!!.. Such a nice little piece of engineering!!..

Moving onto the..

*3.5 to twin 2.5" V-Band Downpipes*

The design principal is pretty cool.. The design means that this down pipe will mate up to the stock cat back exhaust system, meaning that it would be possible to retain the stock Audi exhaust system for stealth! Or.. install a nice APR RSC exhaust system!..










You can see the large diameter 3.5" V-Band in this pic which then nicely forms into twin 2.5" diameter pipe work to mate up to the stock twins that run down the length of the car..

And now a few pics of the development of the downpipe as it was built up..


































And now all welded up with the flex-joints in place..


















For the eagle eyed out there.. You will notice that the two Lambda sensors are situated very close together.. This is due to the first pre-cat being deleted with this turbo kit.. Obviously then relying on the two cats further downstream for emissions.. Or a full cat delete like ill be going for!!

And last up..

*Cast Aluminium Turbo Intake pipe*

Again, first designed in CAD, produced in rapid prototype and now finally cast up..










As with the downpipe design, the turbo intake pipe will allow for fitment with the stock Audi TTRS Intake system.. Meaning that ALL aftermarket intake systems will work with this kit..

The design is beautiful, again all flow tested using CFD software, making the transition from 3" at the intake entry, to the 4" turbo inlet..

Just another cheeky pic too..










Ok, so thats about it for now.. Getting very close! And everything so far is way surpassing my expectations! This is going to be goooood! Can't wait to have my first drive of the car and see/feel/hear what this will all add up to..

I think you'll all agree that the engineering and work that has gone into all of this stuff is pretty stunning!!..

Until soon..

Jc


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## mrdemon

very nice stuff.


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## Mule

So now becausae APR makes it, then 3½" exhaust is fine???  The 3" could EASILY make 700+ hp.....

Splitting into 2x2½" as I kept posting again and again.....

Why wont some people just sit down and listen....they might actually learn something......


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## jonnyc

This is not a 3.5" exhaust system though is it?.. It reduces down to 3" single further downstream, around the middle of the car.. Which is what I maintained was enough.. 3.5" exhaust system still not required. Extra noise and nothing else until your pushing 35psi and running over 750hp..


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## Fissues

Posted by Arin of APR over at QWTT2

So we've given a little preview of our development progress thus far. We have a lot of power left on the table, and as more of our production hardware and software becomes ready, we'll keep bumping up the power and torque.

On our TTRS beta car, we're running a beta APR stage 3 turbocharger system. Essentially at this stage we have the cast turbo inlet, turbocharger, inconel turbo manifold, turbo hotside down turn, turbo compressor outlet hose, beta coolant and oil lines, a beta downpipe which will be heavily modified for efficiency in the future, and no production heat shields.

We used the stock intake, stock intercooler, stock internals, stock clutch, stock head, stock cams, stock fuel pump and stock injectors. We were able to crank out 517 whp and 500 wtq (ft-lbs) on this setup, and it's spooling very quickly already. To give an idea of spool, we're past 300 wtq by 3000 rpm's and 400 wtq by 3200 RPM's. Torque just keeps climbing and we've already pushed 550 wtq out of the setup but did not have time to gather all of the data before the conference. Essentially, with all of these stock restrictive and limiting components, the system is spooling quickly and making gobs of power already with more room to go once more parts are installed.

The great Audi engines are back and we're loving every moment of it!


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## Mule

NOw thats nice


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## caney

So thats roughly 580bhp at the crank? From what i've seen and read from other tuners 480bhp is about the max on the stock fuel pump so how are you able to do this?
Steve


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## LEO-RS

517 @ wheels would be just over 600bhp at fly with a realistic 15% loss.

Certainly seems like 650-700 will be possible though going on those early figures.


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## caney

Mitchy said:


> 517 @ wheels would be just over 600bhp at fly with a realistic 15% loss.
> 
> Certainly seems like 650-700 will be possible though going on those early figures.


on stock fuel pump and injectors?


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## jonnyc

Not bad hey.. Can't wait to try on my car! Can only imagine with my Forge Intercooler and ITG intake along with fuel system what this kit will be capable of..

750hp here we come!! Woooo


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## Mule

The funny part is....I said fuel could go on beyond 500.....everybody laughed.....

Now APR proves it can be done....I am LMFAO!!


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## jonnyc

If I could be at all bothered to waste my Sunday afternoon to find the time that I stated that the stock fuel system is no good for over 500hp on a OEM style turbo.. BUT with a high flow manifold and turbo in my opinion there would most probably be a lot more head room because of increased efficiency then I would have simply replied with that to your last post..

Plenty of people so far have proven that the stock fuel system will struggle to pass 500hp on an OEM style turbo (unless you can tell me differently) and APR have proven my prediction to be totally accurate in regards to a high flow manifold/turbo effectively increasing head room in the fuelling..

So great, I'll give myself a gold star too shall I?..


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## jonnyc

*Update..*

Ok guys, so some more info here..

First up, another picture of the SLA parts all together.. (not for any other reason apart from they look cool)










And now for the real cool stuff!!..










And to quote..

_We used the stock intake, stock intercooler, stock internals, stock clutch, stock head, stock cams, stock fuel pump and stock injectors. We were able to crank out 517 whp and 500 wtq (ft-lbs) on this setup, and it's spooling very quickly already. To give an idea of spool, we're past 300 wtq by 3000 rpm's and 400 wtq by 3200 RPM's. Torque just keeps climbing and we've already pushed 550 wtq out of the setup but did not have time to gather all of the data before the conference. Essentially, with all of these stock restrictive and limiting components, the system is spooling quickly and making gobs of power already with more room to go once more parts are installed_

Looks pretty good to me!..

All I'm thinking is that a good intercooler and intake is going to be worth around 30WHP on this set up.. So straight away thats up to 550WHP!!!..

Then once the high flow fuel pump and injectors are installed, this is going to raise the potential of the kit even further!!..

THEN! Just imagine if someone had a flowed head, larger capacity engine and forged internals.. Hmmm... 

To say I'm looking forward to the next few months of development is an understatement!!..

Enjoy!


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## caney

What clutch you using johnny?


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## jonnyc

Stock at the moment mate.. Will be for a little while until I can have one made..

To be honest I'm hoping that now the car is in the US some of the companies over there will start releasing some kits! Like the idea of a mini Twin to be honest..


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## andy3.6tt

jonnyc said:


> Stock at the moment mate.. Will be for a little while until I can have one made..
> 
> To be honest I'm hoping that now the car is in the US some of the companies over there will start releasing some kits! Like the idea of a mini Twin to be honest..


Jonnyc do you not like the idea of the sachs racing clutch ?


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## jonnyc

andy3.6tt said:


> Jonnyc do you not like the idea of the sachs racing clutch ?


Not really.. I want a SMF and for what I'm wanting to do I'm not sure a single plate will be able to cope either.. At the moment Sachs only produce a cover and plate for the stock DMF.. Better than stock but I don't want to buy things twice..


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## andy3.6tt

Hey Jonny,
Terry at 20-20 vision will make a custom one piece flywheel for a very reasonable price, just need to specify what weight you need etc.


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## jonnyc




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## LEO-RS

Interesting clip there Jonny, what are your thoughts?

Cant wait to see the vids when finished. I'm sure they will hit the dragstrips soon enough.

Are you ready for MLR event? 3wks today, cutting it fine?


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## jonnyc

It looks fast to me.. Considering stock cats in place along with stock intake, stock cooler and two up.. Personally, I think its pretty cool that APR have made a video during the development process! Its going to be a lot faster come release but its nice that they can show us all what progress is being made..

Its certainly going to be cutting it fine.. Maybe some all nighters will be in order! :lol:

Can't wait to make a video of my own and really see what it will do..


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## mrdemon

I timed the 100 to 200 km/h, it was disapointing. about 8 seconds in that vid ? and that car has 560Bhp ish !!
Also loads of lag 

my car does 8.3 I would guess Mitchy's is faster than 8 with DSG.


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## jonnyc

I say big respect for APR sticking a video up of the car way before its finished!!.. Anyone jumping to conclusions at this stage regarding performance times and figures is really missing the point of that video..


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## LEO-RS

I guess next step is exhaust, intake and intercooler, max it out and then up the boost when a fuelling solution comes along. They are going about it the right way with testing the OEM hardware first.

Jonny, I cant see you being ready for 30-130  Fingers crossed though.


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## jamman

jonnyc said:


> I say big respect for APR sticking a video up of the car way before its finished!!.. Anyone jumping to conclusions at this stage regarding performance times and figures is really missing the point of that video..


I would think they did it for a laugh Jonny knowing all the nerds will be getting their stopwatches out :roll: :lol:


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## V6RUL

jamman said:


> jonnyc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I say big respect for APR sticking a video up of the car way before its finished!!.. Anyone jumping to conclusions at this stage regarding performance times and figures is really missing the point of that video..
> 
> 
> 
> I would think they did it for a laugh Jonny knowing all the nerds will be getting their stopwatches out :roll: :lol:
Click to expand...

oops.. :roll:


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## jamman

V6RUL said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jonnyc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I say big respect for APR sticking a video up of the car way before its finished!!.. Anyone jumping to conclusions at this stage regarding performance times and figures is really missing the point of that video..
> 
> 
> 
> I would think they did it for a laugh Jonny knowing all the nerds will be getting their stopwatches out :roll: :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> oops.. :roll:
Click to expand...


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## mrdemon

forget the times, it's stupid to do a vid of a unfinised car showing that much lag.

put's people right off.
I don't get why they would show it, it's not fast either.

ALso what fuel are they running for 560BHp, you have to watch APR with 104 octain results etc.

I am sure/hope it will be good, but we said than last year at GTi about Jonny's 500BHp car.

daft move to do the vid imo, I am still waiting for the 6 APR TTRS owners to post up some results :lol:


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## jamman

mrdemon said:


> forget the times, it's stupid to do a vid of a unfinised car showing that much lag.
> 
> put's people right off.
> I don't get why they would show it, it's not fast either.
> 
> ALso what fuel are they running for 560BHp, you have to watch APR with 104 octain results etc.
> 
> I am sure/hope it will be good, but we said than last year at GTi about Jonny's 500BHp car.
> 
> daft move to do the vid imo, I am still waiting for the 6 APR TTRS owners to post up some results :lol:


Make your mind up, I'm sure some nerd was banging on about the times a few posts ago :roll:

Oh it was you sorry :lol:


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## LEO-RS

mrdemon said:


> forget the times, it's stupid to do a vid of a unfinised car showing that much lag.
> 
> put's people right off.
> I don't get why they would show it, it's not fast either.
> 
> ALso what fuel are they running for 560BHp, you have to watch APR with 104 octain results etc.
> 
> I am sure/hope it will be good, but we said than last year at GTi about Jonny's 500BHp car.
> 
> daft move to do the vid imo, I am still waiting for the 6 APR TTRS owners to post up some results :lol:


610bhp x 0.85% (15% loss) = 518whp. Sure, it doesn't look like 600bhp but it's a half finished product at the moment. Perhaps that is 517bhp rather than 517whp and its just been charted wrong? Who knows, who cares, it's not important at this early stage as Im sure when it gets the hardware all bolted in and the fuelling spot on, it will be silly silly quick. Would hope for a mid 10 1/4m and if anyone can extract the best out of a manual car, I think Jonny would be number 1 choice.

If I could get 500bhp+ with stock exhaust, intercooler and intake, then I'm definitely interested too, Keep the info coming Jonny, there are a lot of people watching, I'm sure these kits will fly off their shelves  So glad APR and all this hardware is US based and not rip off Europe based, much more cost effective


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## mrdemon

yes I am sure a few people timed it, and then thought WTF.

then replayed it and saw the massive lag,

then retimed it and though mmmm what a silly move.


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## jamman

OMG I'm agreeing with Mitchy good post


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## jonnyc

What massive lag?? Lol.. Are you talking about the start of the video where he's quite obviously just rolling into the throttle??.. Jesus..

Mitchy summed it up.. Just calm down and take the video for what it's intended..


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## Mule

It better be significantly faster than that to make sense.

0-200 should be under 10 seconds....and 30-130mph should be single digit.

And we need to see numbers based on normal fuel. Current output of the GTX3076R would be around 550 crank hp on a 2.5L engine with normal estimated correction factor. Around 425 on the wheels. I dont see much more than late 400's in that video...maybe 470.

Looking forward to follow the development and I could easily be a customer as well.

Now map switching would be nice to have on top.


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## jamiekip

Mule said:


> Now map switching would be nice to have on top.


Ohhh.. now that's a nice feature :roll: :lol:


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## Mule

I think they had that feature via the Cruise Control button....


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## jonnyc

Mule said:


> I think they had that feature via the Cruise Control button....


There is something A LOT cooler than that coming soon.. But yes, map switching they have had for a while too.. Instant on the fly using stock controls, almost push to pass really..


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## Mule

A lot more clever than Revo 

HAHAHAHAHAHHAA


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## jamiekip

Mule said:


> A lot more clever than Revo
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHHAA


You're like a dog chasing your own tail


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## Mule

No....more like chasing this sort of tail...


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## jonnyc

Better get earning some more cash then dude..


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## Mule

People talk heyyy 

Yes....Earning is easy....customer paying is more difficult....



jonnyc said:


> Better get earning some more cash then dude..


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## Mule

I am off the APR kit....Something very nice is on its way that I would want instead!

A lot better.


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## mrdemon

Mule said:


> I am off the APR kit....Something very nice is on its way that I would want instead!
> 
> A lot better.


yes a 911 lol


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## Mule

Nope 

Something that are almost ready and has better design overall!

Looking forward to the release. Very excited!


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## conneem

Mule said:


> Nope
> 
> Something that are almost ready and has better design overall!


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## Mule

Almost but not entirely.... 

I have promised not to say anything, but it will put the APR kit to shame and make delivery much more efficient...


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## LEO-RS

Mule said:


> Almost but not entirely....
> 
> I have promised not to say anything, but it will put the APR kit to shame and make delivery much more efficient...


Euro/UK or US based?

Euro prices for us in the UK anyway seem to be priced very high so Im quite looking forward to the APR kit being released, it should be competitively priced coming from the US.


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## Mule

UK based....


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## jonnyc

Lol.. Mule, all I can think of when I see your posts is..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO23WBji ... ata_player


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## phope




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## R5T

XXX


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## jonnyc

Hey guys,

Sorry for the lack of updates in here as of late!

Ok, so parts are being installed for the final fit next week, and the car will be loaded with the map that has been in development on the US TTRS and adapted for UK 99 Octane fuel..

As the US car made 517WHP running pretty much 100% stock hardware (bar the turbo kit) Im expecting some pretty cool numbers but of course, until the fueling upgrades are available that will remain the limit..

I may run some meth through it and see what it will do but for now im just looking forward to getting into the car and seeing how it feels with the APR Stage III kit installed!

Hopefully more to shout about next week, when all being well, I will have my first drive!!


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## phope

Can't wait to see and hear this


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## jaybyme

Will you be setting the car up on a dyno Jonny, and posting charts ?


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## LEO-RS

I take it you're not ready for the 30-130 event on Sunday?


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## jonnyc

phope said:


> Can't wait to see and hear this


Your telling me!! Lol.. Cannot wait at all..



jaybyme said:


> Will you be setting the car up on a dyno Jonny, and posting charts ?


Yes, the car will be ran on the in house APR UK dyno but I doubt ill bother posting anything up until the fuel upgrades are here.. Not far away now but until then the car will be fuel limited..

Still, like I said, I'm intrigued to see the difference with aftermarket cooler, intake and exhaust etc will make when complimented by the APR Stage III kit.. Add on top the engine work I have had done and once the fuel upgrades are here then im expecting some pretty outstanding figures!!



Mitchy said:


> I take it you're not ready for the 30-130 event on Sunday?


Unfortunately not mate no.. The car just won't be ready in time.. And I don't want to go there with a 80% car and give anyone the opportunity to talk crap about how it should be faster when I have said a million times it's not actually the finished kit yet..

I'll be there in the APR Golf R which is running Stage 2+ and see how I get along with that.. I'm expecting it to be the fastest 2.0T car comfortably..


----------



## jonnyc

Parts are here in the UK and will be installed next week.. 

Just some pics really (rude not to) .. The quality of the parts when you have them in your hands is just stunning!!

*Turbo Manifold*


























*Turbo Intake Pipe*


































*Exhaust Downturn*


























*Garrett GTX Turbo*


----------



## pablos

Great thread Jonny. I saw Keith on Saturday up at Awesome and he is pretty excited about this project. Looking forward to seeing some videos when it's complete. 8)


----------



## Mule

Any updates??


----------



## jamiekip

He's busy


----------



## Mule

I know 

Racing tomorrow at Paul Ricard for JMW.

But since he could post this, I thought he was bored....

http://vagoc.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=10795


----------



## R5T

XXX


----------



## Mule

Its in a 458 italia


----------



## jonnyc

Update..

So the car is at APR UK, being stripped down for the APR Stage III install, very exciting stuff!

As APR UK now have their very own MAHA dyno on site, I'm looking forward to seeing some numbers from the car within the next 7 days all going well!..

This is very much a first step of trying the turbo kit, on 100% stock fuel system and literally just the bolt on parts added complimented by BETA Stage III software..

The engine/performance hardware spec will be as follows..

APR BETA Stage III Software
APR Stage III Turbo Kit
Scorpion Titanium Race Exhaust
ITG Carbon Race Intake System
Forge Intercooler
OEM Injectors
OEM High Pressure Fuel Pump
OEM In-Tank Fuel System

With a far more OEM spec the APR US car made some pretty impressive numbers so I'm looking forward to seeing how things improve with the additional hardware..

Plan is to test most probably 4 different turbo configurations over the next 6 weeks prior to GTI International by which time all being well the APR updated High Pressure Fuel Pump and High Flow Injectors will also be installed on the car meaning that we can then make some proper power!!.. Which will represent much more what the Production Stage III kit will be capable of..

Over the next week I'll be posting tons of pictures of the install step-by-step and hopefully some dyno figures by the end of next week!!..

Cheers, JC


----------



## R5T

XXX


----------



## bigsyd

Hi jonny, hope you are well, me and a forum member will also be going to the new APR unit in a few weeks for a custome stage 3 on a car(mk1) and also using the RR is the MAHA dyno on site considered as one of the better dynos for true figures


----------



## jbomb

So a few questions from a noob lol

Is this kit designed to be something you can bolt on, have a map change and away you go..... then if you wanted to sell the car, unbolt put a standard map back on and it's back to standard?

I guess officially no figures have been released yet but how much would this stage 3 kit cost retail for a regular customer, we talking 5k, 8k.....?

Also I suppose us s tronic boys arn't able to have this due to the limits of the s tronic box?


----------



## SuperRS

bigsyd said:


> Hi jonny, hope you are well, me and a forum member will also be going to the new APR unit in a few weeks for a custome stage 3 on a car(mk1) and also using the RR is the MAHA dyno on site considered as one of the better dynos for true figures


Its the Dyno VW UK use to certify newly introduced vehicles!


----------



## jonnyc

@Jbomb - Answers below

Is this kit designed to be something you can bolt on, have a map change and away you go..... then if you wanted to sell the car, unbolt put a standard map back on and it's back to standard?

Yep, basically a bolt on kit, so it's no more involved than swapping a OEM turbo for an OEM replacement.. I think some people get a little scared off but the whole idea of this kit specifically is that it fits perfectly, and works with the OEM exhaust/intercooler/intake. Which is great news for those who want to either build mods gradually or maintain an OEM look to the engine bay..

I guess officially no figures have been released yet but how much would this stage 3 kit cost retail for a regular customer, we talking 5k, 8k.....?

Somewhere around there yes I recon

Also I suppose us s tronic boys arn't able to have this due to the limits of the s tronic box?

The new TTRS S-Tronic 'box is being developed also by APR for software and the kit will work brilliantly.. No concern for torque limits I wouldn't say..

Hope that helps


----------



## jonnyc

SuperRS said:


> bigsyd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi jonny, hope you are well, me and a forum member will also be going to the new APR unit in a few weeks for a custome stage 3 on a car(mk1) and also using the RR is the MAHA dyno on site considered as one of the better dynos for true figures
> 
> 
> 
> Its the Dyno VW UK use to certify newly introduced vehicles!
Click to expand...

This Dyno is actually an Ex VW dyno and yes, it's full OBD and very accurate indeed..


----------



## jbomb

jonnyc said:


> @Jbomb - Answers below
> 
> Is this kit designed to be something you can bolt on, have a map change and away you go..... then if you wanted to sell the car, unbolt put a standard map back on and it's back to standard?
> 
> Yep, basically a bolt on kit, so it's no more involved than swapping a OEM turbo for an OEM replacement.. I think some people get a little scared off but the whole idea of this kit specifically is that it fits perfectly, and works with the OEM exhaust/intercooler/intake. Which is great news for those who want to either build mods gradually or maintain an OEM look to the engine bay..
> 
> I guess officially no figures have been released yet but how much would this stage 3 kit cost retail for a regular customer, we talking 5k, 8k.....?
> 
> Somewhere around there yes I recon
> 
> Also I suppose us s tronic boys arn't able to have this due to the limits of the s tronic box?
> 
> The new TTRS S-Tronic 'box is being developed also by APR for software and the kit will work brilliantly.. No concern for torque limits I wouldn't say..
> 
> Hope that helps


That does help thank you for that Johnny. Tbh the power increase versus the cost Seems pretty reasonable to me, especially as you would have to buy something fairly outrageous in standard form to match the RS with ths kit installed!


----------



## Mule

I wish holiday weeks was this long.....

Any news!?



jonnyc said:


> Parts are here in the UK and will be installed next week..
> 
> Just some pics really (rude not to) .. The quality of the parts when you have them in your hands is just stunning!!


----------



## drrawle

Mule said:


> I wish holiday weeks was this long.....
> 
> Any news!?


Can't someone just ban this guy?


----------



## Mule

Have I offended you in any way???



drrawle said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish holiday weeks was this long.....
> 
> Any news!?
> 
> 
> 
> Can't someone just ban this guy?
Click to expand...


----------



## jamman

drrawle said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish holiday weeks was this long.....
> 
> Any news!?
> 
> 
> 
> Can't someone just ban this guy?
Click to expand...

He can't help himself mate has some real jealousy/stalking issues with the OP best bet is to put him in your foe list then you don't see his posts unless someone quotes them :wink:


----------



## jonnyc

Away at the moment guys.. Car will be up and running early next week for sure though!!.. Good stuff!!

Here's some pics from the other day when I dropped by APR

Stock turbo out the way!










Ready for new exhaust!










Hybrid OEM turbo










Together with the new APR Stage III turbo










And some more pics..


























That's about it!

More info and pics next week and hopefully a dyno plot and some videos too!!


----------



## Mule

Thx  Looking good!


----------



## jamman

Looking forward to seeing "that" exhaust on looks almost a work of art


----------



## McKenzie

Cracking looking turbo and seems every angle has been looked at here with no short-cuts. Very interested in some results!


----------



## caney

make sure they clean those grubby finger marks off the intake pipe :lol:


----------



## jonnyc

And a little update..

(Excuse the poor quality of the pictures)


















Little notes on what the guys have been upto over the last few days with my car..

EGT probe bung was added to the exhaust manifold, as the US cars run without an EGT sensor. The production manifold will include this, and I guess you can just choose to use it or not depending on the spec of your car.

Some modification required to the cast intake pipe for RHD fitment. The changes are being noted and the production kit will be for LHD & RHD (same kit)

Exhaust downpipe is being measured up for welding this afternoon, and will be done tomorrow

All parts should be installed Thursday and then the car will be on the dyno all day Friday!


----------



## robokn

Hi Jonny Any news??


----------



## R5T

XXX


----------



## jonnyc

robokn said:


> Hi Jonny Any news??


Pretty much all done now.. Exhaust downpipe just needs a little work to fit being a one off and then should be on the Dyno Monday/Tuesday. APR lot are at Brands this weekend with the VW Cup / DTM so that's just taken a couple of days too..

All gone well though and can't wait for early next week!!



R5T said:


> No engine drop. :wink:


???


----------



## jbomb

Johnny, I have been sat here for a few days waiting to hear all about your latest developments and nothing!  
Please give us some details lol


----------



## jonnyc

jbomb said:


> Johnny, I have been sat here for a few days waiting to hear all about your latest developments and nothing!
> Please give us some details lol


Decent update tomorrow evening and then, should be driving the car Saturday all being well.. 

It's all going to plan just these things take a little time


----------



## jbomb

jonnyc said:


> jbomb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Johnny, I have been sat here for a few days waiting to hear all about your latest developments and nothing!
> Please give us some details lol
> 
> 
> 
> Decent update tomorrow evening and then, should be driving the car Saturday all being well..
> 
> It's all going to plan just these things take a little time
Click to expand...

I know mate I'm only pulling your leg. Hope it all goes well and most importantly you enjoy it 8)


----------



## jonnyc

*Big update!!*

So the guys at APR and Scorpion have been busy to get the car into the latest state, almost ready to go now!! Very exciting times!!

Heres the process of what the guys have been upto over the last few days of development.. The car throwing some new problems into the mix but things working out ok!

Some shots of the parts again, manifold/turbo etc...








































And some comparisson shots of the OEM turbo again, really quite a major difference in size there!

OEM










APR Stage III










And together..

















One of the first major obstacles to overcome was the fact that the US Spec TTRS is NOT equipped with an EGT (exhaust gas temperature) sensor, so that needed to be added to the APR manifold.. (the design has now been changed to add this for fitment for ALL cars without issue)

EGT probe










EGT bung in the OEM turbo










APR Stage III turbo system complete with EGT probe modification


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


















Ok, so now the engine is stripped down and ready for the new APR Stage III turbo hardware.. (pics do the talking here)










The parts were then installed, which got us to this stage..










And with the prop in..










Next up was a fitment issue with the turbo intake pipe. Again this is a US (LHD) vs (RHD) fitment issue, the PCV re-route block was fouling badly on the brake master cylinder and required some fairly fundamental changes.


































Again, this is due to (LHD) vs (RHD) and again, the designs have been changed to suit, so that fitment will be for both LHD and RHD with the same kit.. At the end of the day, this is what its all about in the development phase!

The intake pipe was modified and now the PCV will simply vent to atmosphere on my car, no issue.. And personally i'd rather oil vapour wasn't being routed back into the engine really..

You can see how the clearance is no longer an issue now..










And a really nice job they made of it too.. Nice smooth flow!


















This illustrates how little space there is all around the turbo install..










Andy also had to make up a compressor discharge pipe, this is silicone for now but is being made from Aluminium hard pipe for GTI, and then being upgraded again for the APR Stage III cast aluminum production spec pipe once that is ready..


















Next up was to sort out the downpipe. 3.5" off the cast inconel turbo downturn into a reducing cone to a 3" turbo back bespoke Scorpion Titanium race exhaust..

Equipment out










New bend and cone










And the next few show the process of building the downpipe and getting the thing to fit in such a tiny space!










































Almost there!










Master welder at Scorpion working some Tig magic!










Welds are just awesome!!










And the finished product (will be ceramic coated along with plenty of other parts soon)










And all on the car.. Really not a lot of room up there at all!! (I know its not tight yet  )


































And then finally the guys installed the bespoke Titanium valved exhaust system!! Absolutely work of art!! And looks incredible on the car..


















































Money shot!










Andy @ APR was working mega late last night to get things bolted up.. Turbo discharge pipe, all of the oil and water, boost pipes, vacuum reference lines, heat-shields, and the car all back together, which finally resulted in...

http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o304 ... tstart.mp4

SHES ALIVE!!!!

Today Andy is working on the little bits and bobs that need sorting out, putting the car 100% back together, race geo set up and then after a few miles on the road later to get things up to temperature, all being well, the car will be tuned on the dyno tomorrow and we all get to see some numbers!!

Absolutely awesome job by the guys at APR so far, can't express how happy I am with their commitment to this and doing whatever it takes to make it right!

Ps..

Some further developments too.. CNC race engine mounts being made as we speak, and should be ready and on the car along with the single mass twin disk race clutch in time for GTI International..

Along with LOADS of other work being done.. Its going to be a big ask to get things done and ready for the show but im really positive that things are coming together now!

Tomorrow ill post during the day and update with how things are progressing!


----------



## jonnyc

Hey guys,

Ok, so today was pretty good!! Not quite the outcome that I wanted if im honest but this is development!

Ok, so arrived, fired the car up and OH MY GOD! It sounds literally amazing, im totally in love with it.. Extremely crisp, and high pitched, just sounds HARD.. Difficult to explain, but for those that will be at GTI you will probably agree with what I think too.. (RobJ came along and looked suitably disapproving) lol..

So, took the car out for its first drive to check that everything was all ok, any leaks, boost, oil and water connections all good and generally first impressions!

First impressions were great, the turbo spools mid to low 2k rpm mark, which is pretty incredible, and the car pulls like crazy to redline, I mean, it hits the limiter HARD.. This is going to be fast!

So took the car back, Andy got it up in the air to check everything out and all seems perfect..

We then moved onto the dyno to take some logs and start on the tuning..

All going well, and making some brilliant progress but literally too much to do..

Keith asked if I wanted to take the car home and run it around for a bit but I took the decision to let them keep it for another week and get it properly dialed in..

The bugger of the day was that unfortunately the APR dyno couldn't get a reading for the power, and we have no idea why.. It would read up to 4500rpm but nothing after.. So all I know is that it was reading over 400hp by 4500rpm but then god knows what afterwards! My guess is probably low to mid 500's based on how fast it was pulling through 5th gear (wheel spin in 4th)

So a shame that I have no figure as yet, but I got to drive it, the exhaust sounds killer and the car is extremely smooth, driveable and fast!.. I mean, it spools with no difference in feeling to the OEM turbo but will probably make 100hp+ MORE already!

Another very interesting point was despite the heat (29 degrees in the dyno room) peak intake temps were 50 degrees C .. Quite remarkable considering! This already shows the difference in efficiency over the stock turbo.. More to come, much more!!!

So, some pictures and videos..

Exhaust has already turned a nice colour too with a bit of heat through it 


















And heres a little video of a run.. Check out the titanium exhaust glowing and throwing some nice flames at the end!! Shame the noise is NOTHING like as nice on the video as in reality..

http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o304 ... 1strun.mp4

So, more by the end of next week!!


----------



## phope

Nice sound


----------



## jonnyc

Just a little video..

http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o304 ... onglow.mp4

Everything went great on the dyno lastnight.. Making 489hp @ 6200rpm (dyno wouldnt read properly above that) but looking at the plot, it seems 525hp so far is a good guess.. And thats on 100% stock fuel system and V-Power ONLY.. NO Meth, no water.. Just pump fuel!!

Lots more to come.. Cant wait!!


----------



## R5T

XXX


----------



## Mule

Wondering if thats a limit thats hardcoded in the ECU??

Same powerlevels as on the Loba/Owen unit so pushing the same amount of air through the engine....

Some tuners have overcome this. Maybe worth investigating into....?

Rothe has made 550hp on a TTRS. Currently going through TÜV approval.


----------



## R5T

XXX


----------



## jonnyc

Mule said:


> Wondering if thats a limit thats hardcoded in the ECU??
> 
> Same powerlevels as on the Loba/Owen unit so pushing the same amount of air through the engine....
> 
> Some tuners have overcome this. Maybe worth investigating into....?
> 
> Rothe has made 550hp on a TTRS. Currently going through TÜV approval.


Did you read what I wrote in that post? Lol.. Clearly not


----------



## Mule

Yes I did....But dynos react to change in the "run"....

Thats why it would cut and let go....



jonnyc said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wondering if thats a limit thats hardcoded in the ECU??
> 
> Same powerlevels as on the Loba/Owen unit so pushing the same amount of air through the engine....
> 
> Some tuners have overcome this. Maybe worth investigating into....?
> 
> Rothe has made 550hp on a TTRS. Currently going through TÜV approval.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you read what I wrote in that post? Lol.. Clearly not
Click to expand...


----------



## robokn

Do you have the car back now?


----------



## Mule

Any updates??


----------



## jonnyc

Racing at Le Mans this weekend.. Back Monday and will get an update after I've had some sleep!!


----------



## conneem




----------



## robokn

I thought it was all done and dusted :?


----------



## jonnyc

It is.. I'm just not thinking about it too much right now that's all


----------



## bigsyd

jonnyc mate....comming out for a pint this weekend....jonnyc sorry bit busy....Racing at Le Mans this weekend.. 8) 8) 8) :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 8) 8) 8)


----------



## jbomb

Well I'll be at home trying to move up the leader board on GT Academy!

.... That's almost the same hahaha (I wish)


----------



## robokn

I had a similar conversation with my friend Dean Staff Phot at EVO, what you doing for Gti Well this weekend I am in Le Mans then Morocco with Mclaren so should be back in time.....GIT


----------



## wimper

Cracking build Johny. That exhaust is a work of art!

Oh and Tommy K says hello...


----------



## jonnyc

Ok heres a few little videos..

First of all, Scorpion Titanium Exhaust.. Valve closed to start with, and then open.. (I have to say that the sound really doesn't come across on the video but gives an idea)

http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o304 ... onRace.mp4

And now.. Something just for fun!

http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o304 ... WOTBOX.mp4



Lots more to come throughout the day, here at APR testing the car, getting there.. And I have to say, up to now, running 100% stock fuel system, and ONLY V-Power, the car is really really fast.. A LOT faster than with the hybrid turbo..

Just for an idea, its holding 27psi to 7400rpm.. This thing is going to be crazy fast once its done!!


----------



## robokn

When will it be done, this week end ??

Looking forward to seeing it on the strip


----------



## jonnyc

Going to be a late one tonight but yes, if everything goes as it should the car will be there from tomorrow running the prototype APR Stage III kit with a GTX3071R on 100% stock fuel system, Scorpion Titanium exhaust, ITG carbon intake and Forge intercooler..

The spec right now is no where near where it will be when the production kit is released, and its a shame that the fuel upgrades weren't here in time, but I have taken the decision to run the car if at all possible..

Really it will be a showcase of stock fuel system vs. stock fuel system in terms of performance against the Hybrid cars, and hopefully demonstrating how much can be gained from efficiency alone! Looking forward to it..


----------



## Mule

Do you switch cars with Jason so the driver advantage is taken out of the equation??


----------



## jonnyc

Lol.. No!


----------



## Mule

Then it wont be a true comparison 

A good driver is worth .5 sec at least....it means a lot on the 1/4M. 



jonnyc said:


> Lol.. No!


----------



## SuperRS

Mule said:


> Then it wont be a true comparison
> 
> A good driver is worth .5 sec at least....it means a lot on the 1/4M.
> 
> 
> 
> jonnyc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol.. No!
Click to expand...

why not?

the driver has stayed the same throughout tuning?


----------



## jonnyc

SuperRS said:


> why not?
> 
> the driver has stayed the same throughout tuning?


Because now its getting close to me running the car he needs to think of a way to rubbish whatever I'm doing.. I'm totally ignoring it lol..


----------



## mrdemon

Really looking forward to the finished stage 3 kit with fuel mods.

Cost and the right BHP could see me doing a DSG car.

When are prices going to be released ?


----------



## jonnyc

mrdemon said:


> Really looking forward to the finished stage 3 kit with fuel mods.
> 
> Cost and the right BHP could see me doing a DSG car.
> 
> When are prices going to be released ?


I would expect after the kit is developed and everyone is happy with it. Keith will be at GTI International all weekend so could be worth having a conversation about that specifically as I have no idea on the commercial stuff..


----------



## [email protected]

Dave/JC,
PM or email me when you have some numbers on the cost.

thx.


----------



## jonnyc

Ok guys..

So I think most of us know that GTI International yesterday unfortunately was cut short due to a really quite serious incident on the strip, with a car driving through a small crowd of people! Never good to hear and pretty scary! Thankfully everyone was taken to hospital and I'm really hoping along with everyone else that they will be making a full recovery!

This is how my weekend went!!

The week leading unto GTI had been a pretty big push to get everything somewhere near ready for the show, we had got to a point where by the car was running but experiencing some boost related issues when running the pressure that we wanted, for the power! The TTRS runs two 3bar map sensors, one pre throttle body and one post.. Once the actual boost exceeds this point, the car is sent straight into limp mode.. APR worked like crazy to get this sorted as we knew once it was, the car would be FAST!..

The Saturday was all about testing, I ran a few times on the strip to gather data, all the time having people in the car, no launch, simply just gathering data, logs and to see if everything was working as it should!  (I was getting a few funny looks doing this on the strip but oh well).. By the end of Saturday we made a little breakthrough, and working furiously through the night, the guys at APR got the car back where now it was doing what we wanted.. Time for a little more tuning, and turning things up!!

Sunday we ran a couple more logging runs (I'm sure people watching must have wandered what the hell I was up to!!) and we were at the point were we were all pretty happy with how the car was running.. All ready now for a proper full attack run.. Everything was looking good and then the incident took place, closing the strip, and taking away the opportunity to do so..

The thing is that when that happened it put everything into perspective and really, running a time was the last thing on my mind, more the safety and well being of the poor spectators involved, wishing that everyone was ok!!..

I did however have a chance when leaving the show later on, having an empty runway, to film a short video.. This gives some kind of idea how the car us running now! Enjoy...

http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o304 ... Inters.mp4

Just a quick run down of the specs as of this video..

APR Stage III prototype kit
GTX3071R (totally maxed out and too small, bigger on the way)
Scorpion Titanium turbo back
ITG Carbon Intake
Forge Intercooler

The plan is to get back to Bruntinghtorpe hopefully Tuesday and run some V-box times, were all itching to know what it will actually do now!! Hopefully ill be posting up tomorrow with some decent results 

The plan after that is for further work to take place, getting the car closer to the final spec production kit.. This thing is going to be insane when its finished!!


----------



## Rosso TT

Hi jonnyc, nice threads you got here, read both end to end and good luck on your quest for more power.
Got few questions: do the APR crew replace the two 3 bar map sensors with bigger ones or they just get rid of the limp mode code?
That means you're running 2+ bar of boost then.
That about maf flow? Are you maxing it out or still good for more?
That sort of air flow are you at?
Cheers
Ross.


----------



## jonnyc

The MAP sensors stay the same, no hardware changes just software trickery! The APR guys sorted it out pretty quickly considering what amount of things had to be looked at.. And yes, 2bar boost on a TTRS engine is good news! As the video shows! Its awesome.. 

No MAF on the TTRS, just the two sensors.. The turbo is totally maxed out now, so were going bigger again and seeing how that works


----------



## Mech33

Thanks for sharing the details of all your progress, jonnyc! I have a US-spec TT-RS and am anxiously awaiting APR's official Stage 3 release.

So are you a co-developer with APR to fine-tune the hardware to support Euro-spec cars, or how did you come to have beta APR hardware on your car?!

I assume APR is also hard at work on tweaking their kit for cars here in the US, but updates have been infrequent...


----------



## jonnyc

APR are certainly making some brilliant progress with the car. Since GTI International last weekend the car is already running stronger and more drivable.. I'll have the car again tomorrow for a few days to evaluate and then back to APR for some more work!

Can't say enough how happy I have been with the whole APR experience, refreshing and totally professional!

The Stage III TTRS kit will be something else when it's released thats for sure.. Can't wait!


----------



## jonnyc

Making some NICE numbers now..

http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o304 ... TRSBBQ.mp4


----------



## Mech33

jonnyc said:


> APR are certainly making some brilliant progress with the car. Since GTI International last weekend the car is already running stronger and more drivable.. I'll have the car again tomorrow for a few days to evaluate and then back to APR for some more work!
> 
> Can't say enough how happy I have been with the whole APR experience, refreshing and totally professional!
> 
> The Stage III TTRS kit will be something else when it's released thats for sure.. Can't wait!


Awesome. What turbo did they put on that thing this time?


----------



## Mech33

Any updates??


----------



## Mech33

What happened johnny, did you blow up the car??


----------



## bigsyd

It's all gone a bit quiet in here


----------



## SuperRS

Its making even more power now than when jonny last posted :twisted:

Im sure jonny will be along soon with a nice update for you guys


----------



## Mech33

Where are the updates??


----------



## jonnyc

Coming up soon.. Hopefully something major after this weekend where I'm planning on running the car at Santa Pod!.. Aiming for a sub 11 second 1/4 mile time.. Let's see! Just more work being completed at the mo so hopefully ready in time..

Jc


----------



## Mech33

jonnyc said:


> Coming up soon.. Hopefully something major after this weekend where I'm planning on running the car at Santa Pod!.. Aiming for a sub 11 second 1/4 mile time.. Let's see! Just more work being completed at the mo so hopefully ready in time..
> 
> Jc


Thanks. What additional work are you completing on the car? Did APR swap turbo models on yours yet?


----------



## caney

jonnyc said:


> Coming up soon.. Hopefully something major after this weekend where I'm planning on running the car at Santa Pod!.. Aiming for a sub 11 second 1/4 mile time.. Let's see! Just more work being completed at the mo so hopefully ready in time..
> 
> Jc


I'm going mate just to see your runs! Can you please do them all in the morning as the mrs wants me home for 1 pm lol


----------



## jonnyc

Planning to be morning only yep. God, pressure is mounting!! Better do a decent time (still not 100% there yet)


----------



## Mech33

Any updates johnny?


----------



## Mule

The car caugt fire not long ago....maybe thats why no updates is posted!


----------



## V6RUL

More info required..
Steve


----------



## jonnyc

Mule said:


> The car caugt fire not long ago....maybe thats why no updates is posted!


That was 6 months ago, nice and up to date with your gossip I see.

Hose came free from one of the AEM nozzles and sprayed meth all over the turbo, was fun!! Quickly extinguished though, no harm done.. AEM sorted the issue too!!


----------



## V6RUL

It's nice to see that the mis-information is old news.
Has there been any progress Jonny..
Steve


----------



## jonnyc

In terms of updates, next step is being made in the coming months.. Pretty cool stuff too!!

Car is running awesome, and new parts (non engine related) coming next week too.. Race spec gearbox prep, diff, clutch, seat frames, wheels/tyres, exhaust .. Lots more fun on the way!!


----------



## robokn

What caused the fire???


----------



## jonnyc

robokn said:


> What caused the fire???





jonnyc said:


> Hose came free from one of the AEM nozzles and sprayed meth all over the turbo, was fun!! Quickly extinguished though, no harm done.. AEM sorted the issue too!!


----------



## robokn

Sorry my bad I would have shat myself


----------



## jonnyc

Spiced things up a bit haha..

Oh, and I can confirm a 50/50 meth mix ignites lol..


----------



## Matt B

I have an aem water meth system, do you mind telling me how it failed and how it was fixed. Could do without an engine fire


----------



## jonnyc

Matt B said:


> I have an aem water meth system, do you mind telling me how it failed and how it was fixed. Could do without an engine fire


Faulty nozzle, been perfect since it was replaced


----------



## jamman

Glad it's coming together JC and the fool sorry mule is still jealous :lol:


----------



## robokn

I don't think he is jealous just asking questions TBH


----------



## jamman

robokn said:


> I don't think he is jealous just asking questions TBH


Hey Rob everyone is allowed an opinion yours is that he isn't mine is that he is, VERY


----------



## Matt B

jonnyc said:


> Matt B said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have an aem water meth system, do you mind telling me how it failed and how it was fixed. Could do without an engine fire
> 
> 
> 
> Faulty nozzle, been perfect since it was replaced
Click to expand...

Jonny
Have you added a solenoid or are you relying on the check valve?

Matt


----------



## jonnyc

Matt B said:


> jonnyc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matt B said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have an aem water meth system, do you mind telling me how it failed and how it was fixed. Could do without an engine fire
> 
> 
> 
> Faulty nozzle, been perfect since it was replaced
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jonny
> Have you added a solenoid or are you relying on the check valve?
> 
> Matt
Click to expand...

Just the standard AEM system, so whatever is included in that


----------



## jonnyc

Mule said:


> The car caugt fire not long ago....maybe thats why no updates is posted!





robokn said:


> I don't think he is jealous just asking questions TBH


Yeah, that read just like a question Rob haha!! :roll:


----------



## robokn

Fair one that's not a question


----------



## jonnyc

Hey..

Just wanted to bring this thread up to date with the latest developments too..

------

After testing, some changes have been made to the manifold to improve many factors, spool, boost control, top end power and over all flow.. Should make an increase in HP and TQ all round plus even further reduce spool times, boost recovery and, well.. It looks pretty damn cool!!


















So, changes from the 4 bolt T3 flange to a much nicer looking (and flowing) 3" V-Band connection which will be then mated to a Garrett GTX3076R turbo, complete with .86AR Tial SS exhaust housing, again improving flow, and reducing weight..










Then for boost control, going away from the internal wastegate turbo, and utilising the Tial 38mm V-Band WG..










This new kit should also be lighter too, which is only a good thing!

Pretty excited to get this lot on my car now and see what difference it makes! We have TONS of data now, so any small differences will be easy to measure, and im confident there should be some marked improvements in the areas noted above..

And another teaser.. Looks SOOOO good


----------



## Demessiah

I love this car, must be an inspiration to many.

Cant wait to see your car and Jasons go head to head once they are both done 8) 8)


----------



## jonnyc

Lol.. Seen as how they will end up mechanically identical in every single way.. It should be a pretty close race! Haha


----------



## SuperRS

I cant wait to see the car in action vs 650hp GTRs and hybrid turbo 911 turbos :twisted:


----------



## jonnyc

Forgone conclusion but will be fun..


----------



## Simon H

SuperRS said:


> I cant wait to see the car in action vs 650hp GTRs and hybrid turbo 911 turbos :twisted:


Jason,
Do you think/know, it will be that good, in terms of straightline performance ?, regards, SIMON.


----------



## robokn

Jonny seems to be rumours about a blown engine, any truth behind this at all??


----------



## SuperRS

Simon H said:


> SuperRS said:
> 
> 
> 
> I cant wait to see the car in action vs 650hp GTRs and hybrid turbo 911 turbos :twisted:
> 
> 
> 
> Jason,
> Do you think/know, it will be that good, in terms of straightline performance ?, regards, SIMON.
Click to expand...

On paper, our cars should comfortably pull on them from 100mph.


----------



## jonnyc

robokn said:


> Jonny seems to be rumours about a blown engine, any truth behind this at all??


What do you think??

Here's what I posted in my car build thread just two days ago..



jonnyc said:


> Ok, so after a barrage of false rumors being spread about my car AGAIN, who blew it up, and what state its in, delivery issues from Audi lol.. All of which are just laughable.. Heres the facts!!
> 
> As far as I know I had the first ever 2.5TFSI built to race spec, with forged rods, pistons, flowed head, bla bla bla.. And while the car was off the road this time around & the gearbox out for race prep etc the decision was made to have the engine taken out and inspected for wear.. As, lets be honest, this is the right thing to do..
> 
> The condition of the pistons, bores, bearings, head, etc etc etc.. All looked at for piece of mind.. And while it was apart, I couldn't resist making some changes.. So basically i've gone and told Tim @ Race Developments to go wild.. The engine will now be an out and out no holds barred build.. All of which should allow for safety in the future when chasing some crazy HP!!.. Basically matching the engine build of Jasons TTRS, also built by Tim..


I've been getting PM's and texts all over the place from people telling me the same thing.. Whoever it is spreading the rumours seriously needs to grow up! It's absolutely pathetic


----------



## jamman

I wonder which donkey would be that sad ?


----------



## jonnyc

jamman said:


> I wonder which donkey would be that sad ?


I know who it is.. Of course it's him too but others are adding fuel to the fire now lol


----------



## mattchaps

jonnyc said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder which donkey would be that sad ?
> 
> 
> 
> I know who it is.. Of course it's him too but others are adding fuel to the fire now lol
Click to expand...

LMAO! Don't let it get to you JC, whoever it is just doesn't want to "believe" the truth...

All I know is I'm on the waiting list for Stage III


----------



## robokn

Ok but I didn't hear it from said person to be fair to him, Not going to name names but it wasn't who you think it is


----------



## jamman

All this cloak and dagger stuff is hilarious, get a life people.


----------



## SuperRS

Why is that those who are big enough to talk in the shadows arent big enough to come out in the open???


----------



## jonnyc

Because they're pussies and enjoy talking shit about people they don't ever intend to talk to in the real world..

Haters gonna hate ..


----------



## bigsyd

> those who are big enough to talk in the shadows arent big enough to come out in the open


 Ohhh i like that 8)


----------



## robokn

.............................................


----------



## SuperRS

robokn said:


> jonnyc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because they're pussies and enjoy talking shit about people they don't ever intend to talk to in the real world/quote]
> 
> What just like the APR employees personally attack other tuners / people on other forums, VAGOC, FB VAG Tuning group
> 
> Don't seem like the most professional people I certainly wouldn't go to a tuner that calls people "Tossers" in public, but hey ho each to their own, as for talking to people that is the whole idea behind a forum to talk using magic without the need to actually meet someone and talk to them
Click to expand...

1. Where's the relevance?
2. Why would you bring up something that some mysterious person has told you, when that said person then asks not to mentioned. It might be worthwhile asking why this person doesn't want their name associated to this rumour!
3. I've noticed you aren't a fan of jonny/apr and that's fine, but why drag this up here when it's been discussed on vagtuning already, and you could have asked him directly on vagtuning?

As for tuner wars, every tuner participates to think otherwise is naive. That's the inevitable outcome when companies compete against another. Welcome to the real world


----------



## robokn

......................................


----------



## SuperRS

I could posts up a few example. But it tends to be a case of people only seeing what they wish to see.

Even by those who claim to know that JC doesn't pay for his mods, I would argue the fact that you are months on end without your 45k car, is payment more than enought itself. Either way jonny already has said he pays for his mods so why should we want to or even care to disbelieve the guy?


----------



## robokn

....................................


----------



## kevtga

robokn said:


> I know for a fact he didn't pay for the exhaust and that was 2.5k, just to clarify


So what and who really cares (apart from you and a few others it seems) I wish I didn't have to pay anything car related actually I wish I didn't have to pay for anything in general it would be great so who is more the fool people who pay or people who don't ?? This is ment to be an adult car forum not some kiddies play ground


----------



## bigsyd

If you can get it for free do it and fook the rest :twisted:


----------



## wja96

bigsyd said:


> If you can get it for free do it and fook the rest :twisted:


That's as may be, the line that I don't want to see crossed is the one where we get an advertisement thread under the guise of a build thread.

I don't care if someone gets a freebie. I do want to know it was a freebie so I can make an informed decision about how credible the reviews are.


----------



## jonnyc

Pathetic..


----------



## jamman

Damm what have I missed ?

A load of full stops by the look of it...........................................


----------



## robokn

Not worth the hassle TBH you can't win against APR and it's followers

They know best


----------



## wja96

OK, if I'm pathetic (and I don't see why you feel the need to insult me) then answer one question.

Has you car suffered damage to the engine while at APR that is sufficiently bad to warrant or require a new engine that has resulted in your car being laid up at Tanner's Drive waiting for Audi to deliver a new engine?

A simple yes or no will resolve this once and for all. I'm not on any other forums, so I've not been spreading any rumours but I seem to recall there was a post on these forums from someone who had visited Tanners Drive that reported your car was waiting for a new engine from Audi.


----------



## jamman

Away we go again 

I fail to understand why

a) anybody should/would be interested

and

b) why it matters it's a development car things go right things go wrong it's the nature of the beast.

I just don't understand all the hate, it baffles me.


----------



## robokn

'cause is everything is viewed thru rose tinted glasses and that is not the case, no haters just people who ask for the truth, I fully understand the hassle a new BT build brings BUT this one is posted as no issues when that is not really the truth


----------



## jonnyc

wja96 said:


> OK, if I'm pathetic (and I don't see why you feel the need to insult me) then answer one question.
> 
> Has you car suffered damage to the engine while at APR that is sufficiently bad to warrant or require a new engine that has resulted in your car being laid up at Tanner's Drive waiting for Audi to deliver a new engine?
> 
> A simple yes or no will resolve this once and for all. I'm not on any other forums, so I've not been spreading any rumours but I seem to recall there was a post on these forums from someone who had visited Tanners Drive that reported your car was waiting for a new engine from Audi.


NO!!!!!!!!!

How many times

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO


----------



## jonnyc

The reason I said "pathetic" is that I have explained exactly what's gone on in detail and certain people seem to just be ignoring that and instead believing 'friends' or 'someone' or 'a mate' or 'a guy I know' with little snippets of info, letting their minds run away, fabricating a story and then accusing me of lying?!..

Tell me how that's fair?!!.. And how I'm expected not to get pissed off by it?.. It ruins my thread, detracts for people who are actually interested and makes you lot look like jealous children!

I've explained exactly what and why.. Believe me or not, but please it's just a joke now that I'm effectively getting harassed by certain members who seem to think they know a lot more than they do..

So, I'll revert back to my original statement..

Pathetic


----------



## SuperRS

Jealousy and haters.

As for the rumours, probably the same asshole who spread around that my car apparently had a hole in the side of the gearbox, then a hole in the block. And probably the same person who claimed that Andrews freshly APR remapped car made poor numbers at a dyno day, which he never even attended.

Haters gonna hate, rob you being friends with the forge guys should know this very well....


----------



## wja96

You do have to say that APR's dyno never seems to be available and they do rather build up hopes and expectations that generally fail to be met.

Other companies tend to release stuff once it's completed and tested which may be APR's masterstroke because they can always claim their development product will be better.

Anyway, I'm glad your car definitely hasn't had a new engine JonnyC.


----------



## SuperRS

What hopes and expectations have not been met?????


----------



## wja96

You can't be serious surely?

How many times has JonnyC's car not made it to the rollers?

I've yet to see a RR printout for any APR RS and the one printout that was available was mysteriously pulled by the car's owner.


----------



## SuperRS

No are you serious. You are part of a select few who will try and twist anything into a negative.

I've seen Loba hybrid TTRS back to back with apr stage 3 TTRS on the dyno, seen the graphs layed over one another, you just aren't privvy to that info for obvious reasons. If you were there on the day you would have seen the results.

APR will release dyno sheets for stage 3 once development is finished.

As for a stage 1 owner pulling his own dyno sheets off the web, that's the owners prerogative. He just seemingly wanted to post up the results himself rather than others do it for him and got upset.

Plenty of APR stage 1 and stage 2 dyno sheets on the Internet otherwise.

Aren't you two getting bored of this now surely?


----------



## jonnyc

wja96 said:


> How many times has JonnyC's car not made it to the rollers?


My car has probably done about 1000+ miles on the APR dyno.. What part of that isn't making it to the rollers?!!..

Find a new hobby


----------



## Mule

At least our cars didnt explode due to bad mapping and bad hardware....


----------



## SuperRS

Mule said:


> At least our cars didnt explode due to bad mapping and bad hardware....


Yes u are right, that Revo RT500 didn't exactly go to plan


----------



## jonnyc

Von, feel free to start another thread with actual hard proof, seems you have some solid info to make such claims..

Until then, get out of spamming my threads. AGAIN!!

Thanks


----------



## Mule

APR blew up the revised engine of Jonny's as well.

Lying in bits at the engine builder....couldnt control boost. Thats why its been delayed for so long.

Crankshaft, rods and Audi spare parts are delayed.


----------



## jamman

Mule said:


> At least our cars didnt explode due to bad mapping and bad hardware....


Real playground stuff :roll:

You just know Eeyore has been itching to get his little fingers going the boy just can't help himself.

Still gives him a break from [email protected] :wink:


----------



## Mule

I dont need to prove anything Jonny...

And not spamming your thread. For that SuperRS does a good job.

But I guess when advertising for APR its not spam....when dealing with facts, its spam.

I have good inside contact at APR. They tell me everything...

Because of the explosion, APR changed the manifold for better boost control.



jonnyc said:


> Von, feel free to start another thread with actual hard proof, seems you have some solid info to make such claims..
> 
> Until then, get out of spamming my threads. AGAIN!!
> 
> Thanks


----------



## jonnyc

Hilarious stuff..


----------



## Mule

I dont know about that....I think its sad.

Not good when engines die....but good work for Racedevelopments!


----------



## Tim Radley

The only thing Jonny has blown up is his date for tonight :lol:


----------



## Tim Radley

It is true the engine is undergoing some modifications.

Jonny wanted to up the performance and after much discussion we decided that this meant looking for better response. My view is you need torque for that so i've decided to make some drastic modifications to the cylinder head.

Now we all know the engines that give the best low down torque are old style V8's with 2-valves so i'm converting the head from 4-valves per cylinder to 2-valves per cylinder.

I've attached a photo of the work in progress. Its a huge job so please don't laugh just yet, i can assue you then its done it will look awesome.


----------



## Samuelmartin

jonnyc said:


> --


As a complete noob to all this stuff I have found this thread incredibly informative and interesting to read. Unfortunately its got a rather tiresome read towards the end when It appears to have turned into a jealousy fuelled rumour mill bitching sesh. Id rather leave that sort of shit to the guys on saxo forums talking about whos got the biggest exhaust tip.

This is genuinely how I want this story to end, with you climbing into an awesome car.


----------



## wja96

Has anyone got an APR dyno plot to back up any of these claims?


----------



## Mule

Nope....



wja96 said:


> Has anyone got an APR dyno plot to back up any of these claims?


----------



## jamman

Sighhhhh, all this bitterness and jealousy can't be good for you. 

Looking forward to see how the modded head performs.


----------



## wja96

jamman said:


> Sighhhhh, all this bitterness and jealousy can't be good for you.
> 
> Looking forward to see how the modded head performs.


Do you mean bitterness and envy? I really don't envy anyone. And I'm not bitter. I think Mule has lost the plot fractionally. Someone's definitely being economical with the actualite though as JonnyC says his engine didn't blow up and Mule and several others say it did. I say put up or shut up.

JonnyC has absolutely stated that, in the time his car has been with APR the engine has not blown up. I have accepted that. What I find hard to accept is APR claiming x-hundred bhp for this and y-hundred bhp for that and all the time the dyno won't give a proper reading or it was occupied by an R8 or the only man who could operate it was in a marketing meeting or somesuch.

It would be much easier to understand why JonnyC is chasing torque if we could see a dyno plot. APR apparently already have a car running in excess of 600bhp in Alabama, so it would be interesting to see how the JonnyC build compares to that. Instead of which we get pictures of manifolds and exhausts and heads. That's all great, but eventually, if you want to encourage discussion, you have to provide something of substance to discuss, otherwise what's the point of the thread?


----------



## jamman

Bitterness, envy, jealousy, hate call it what you will some of the posts on the thread (many deleted by the mods) smell very strongly of all four.

You get pictures of manifolds, exhausts and heads precisely because this is a development thread but some people on this forum seem determined to try and hound the OP with their constant slating and attacks which in my view makes him more defensive and far more unlikely to respond to questions etc.

All this I have a spy/contact/secret fecking squirrel at APR what's that all about GROW UP :lol:

To me and many others this very sad behavior hampers what is at the end of the day is an interesting thread.


----------



## jonnyc

Where have I claimed any specific HP output? I don't believe I have..

The only things I have posted are comparison data of 100-200kph times from my car, vs a Loba 500+ which made 495hp .. My car was a full 1.5 seconds faster in that test, back to back. Make of that what you will..

There's really no requirement for me to post numbers yet or in fact ever! This is a thread following the development of the kit and my personal experiences along the way. Once I'm happy, and the hardware is complete and finalised I'll post numbers from my car, but lets be honest, even then people will have something to say.

I have various dyno plots, plenty of people have seen numbers on the dyno. Same day, 5 mins later overlaid against a Loba 500+ TTRS with Meth .. Making 100's of HP/TQ over that particular car, with almost identical spool.. Those who know, know.. Those who don't just seem to make crap up! It's hilarious!

All these engine rumours do make me giggle, I'm not going to even attempt to prove otherwise now, it's all got so ridiculous that its clear theres really nothing I could do which wouldn't be brought into question. So why bother..

I don't need to prove anything, If you don't like, don't believe or don't care, don't read the thread.. Simple


----------



## [email protected]

SInce this is my brand and I am ultimately responsible for everything regarding APR in the UK and Europe, I feel like I need to post and address some of this....

However, I've learned that no good can from arguing with some people and that some people really do take things to an extreme level that is very far from reality, so what's the point in even addressing them?

That being said, I am more than happy to answer any real and legitimate questions.

I do like that our upcoming Stage III is such an exciting project that it creates such debate and conspiracy theories. Must mean we are on to something.

I will say that one of the reasons we haven't shown the power JC's car makes in a dyno graph is because it is not indicative of what the final product will be so its just not good marketing for posterity sake to post our development numbers. If I show you a 688BHP dyno graph, that's what most people will latch on to and more than likely be disappointed when the Stage III is released at much lower power numbers.

JC's car has run in several different states of tune from 500bhp to well over 650bhp throughout this process.

The APR Stage III in the States is more consistently at 550bhp on a conservative tune with standard intake, intercooler and the USA's 93 OCT which is comparable to the UK's 97 Octane.

We are updating the kit to include an external waste gate in order to regain limp mode protection as the standard Garrett Honeywell internally gated GTX3071R exhaust housing won't evacuate the exhaust gasses over the exhaust wheel satisfactorily and allows boost to be built up to 1.3 bar with the internal waste gate wide open.

The main point of this exercise with JC's car is to verify and collect data regarding the longevity and ultimate capabilities of the Stage III hardware we have are testing. JC's car has seen calibrations with boost pressure ranging from 1.3 bar to 2.1 bar at rpm's as high as 7400. The more extreme side of this scale will never be seen in the production Stage III release.

JC's car and even Jason's car will be closer to a Stage IV when they are released back to them permanently and we will be able to release a production Stage III around that same time due to the other 3 or so TTRS' around the world testing our Stage III product without built engines and just about every mod you can find for these engines like JC's and Jason's.

Cheers!


----------



## [email protected]

JC's Boost....


----------



## [email protected]

You could say the GTX3071R is maxed out on JC's car.....


----------



## [email protected]

Which produces these kinds of exhaust gas temperatures...nothing crazy but a touch higher than a release worthy product would see but its good testing to see how the Stage III hardware and other standard bits on the car hold up.


----------



## [email protected]

A nice example of how the secondary fueling surface (hardware protection lambda) keeps the EGT's sustainable....

Lambda gets as rich as .77 towards the end of the run.


----------



## jonnyc

Now if only you had Loba 500+ turbo data too.. That would make for an interesting boost overlay graph lol.. :wink:


----------



## [email protected]

jonnyc said:


> Now if only you had Loba 500+ turbo data too.. That would make for an interesting boost overlay graph lol.. :wink:


I posted loba graphs in a different forum. I'll do a comparison the next time I feel like spending hours in excel.


----------



## [email protected]

And here is the actual Timing Angle we achieved with Race Gas...AND Yeah, that's 24 degrees advance at red line. :twisted: If you think that means JC's car is making a lot of power on Race Gas, that's because it is.










And here is Timing Correction for Knock.....










The spikes to 5 degrees of correction you see would be eliminated in a production version of this calibration but its ok for our uses during R&D.


----------



## [email protected]

and the Actual Timing Angle for Pump Gas.......

Needs a little bit of work before its ready for release but 13-15 degrees advance on Pump Gas on a turbo this size is pretty nice.










And here is Correction for Knock on Pump Gas. You can see the areas that need a little bit of adjustment to be considered worthy of public consumption but not bad for a R&D calibration.


----------



## jonnyc

Funny how all the haters have nothing to say now..


----------



## LEO-RS

So 688bhp it is on race gas then Keith :wink:

Those plots do look the dogs danglies, 2 bar at 6000 still and 1.7 at red line, just need to get the thing to perform on the road now.

Good efforts


----------



## [email protected]

I didn't do the best job of taking notes about the logs regarding IAT's but from the best I can tell, this is Intake Air Temperatures on the road with the small amount of Water Meth we sometimes use on JC's car turned on...










And this is a back to back run with the Water Meth turned off...


----------



## Tim Radley

jonnyc said:


> Funny how all the haters have nothing to say now..


Yes i do. I hate you.
Those are from an etcha-sketch, my brother had one when he was 4.
When do we get to see the photos of the 15 blown engines? :lol:


----------



## vwcheung

Keith you are talking another language lol! Great work though hope to see Jonny's & Jason's car in the next few months!

@vwcheung
www.aquaeight.com
www.thinknoodles.com


----------



## [email protected]

And now on to fueling....

Here is the Actual Low Pressure Fuel from JC's car...


----------



## Anakin

I'd love a passenger ride some time


----------



## [email protected]

And High Pressure Fuel Requested vs Actual.....The reason for the spikes over Requested is because there are a couple of different ways to get the ECU to ask for more High Pressure Fuel and as this is a R&D Calibration, the Calibration Engineers went with the easiest way to get the results they needed for testing. A production calibration would not look like this as Requested Fuel Pressure would be set in the ECU to what the car is actually making.


----------



## jonnyc

[email protected] said:


> And High Pressure Fuel Requested vs Actual.....The reason for the spikes over Requested is because there are a couple of different ways to get the ECU to ask for more High Pressure Fuel and as this is a R&D Calibration, the Calibration Engineers went with the easiest way to get the results they needed for testing. A production calibration would not look like this as Requested Fuel Pressure would be set in the ECU to what the car is actually making.


Kind of proves my point about a hybrid turbo car NOT requiring an uprated fuel pump too..

Got to love data rather than ... [smiley=gossip.gif] [smiley=book2.gif]


----------



## [email protected]

And for my last graph of the day, I thought I would give you a sneak peek of the upcoming comparison I plan to do....

Here is the difference in the amount of Injector On Time required to provide a Lambda of .79 - .81 at the same high pressure fuel pump request for both a Loba Hybrid and the APR R&D Stage III. When you need that much more fuel to make the same lambda, you are obviously adding in a bunch more air. :wink:


----------



## V6RUL

Good posts Keith, pity they weren't put up earlier, to quell the disbelievers.
Some good info to work with and shows the potential of the setup.

Ps I was running a Tial 44 which wasn't man enough to exhaust boost and went to a Turbosmart 45mm which has sorted the issue. Just a heads up.
Steve


----------



## [email protected]

V6RUL said:


> Good posts Keith, pity they weren't put up earlier, to quell the disbelievers.
> Some good info to work with and shows the potential of the setup.
> 
> Ps I was running a Tial 44 which wasn't man enough to exhaust boost and went to a Turbosmart 45mm which has sorted the issue. Just a heads up.
> Steve


Sometimes its more fun just to sit back and smile to yourself while those who talk rubbish talk their rubbish knowing you have all of the evidence you need to make them look foolish just sitting there in your back pocket..... 

Hopefully some of them will learn patience and choose to keep their mouths closed in the future until they have all of the facts. :roll:

Thanks for the tip about the waste gate. We shall see soon enough.

Cheers!


----------



## kevtga

[email protected] said:


> V6RUL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good posts Keith, pity they weren't put up earlier, to quell the disbelievers.
> Some good info to work with and shows the potential of the setup.
> 
> Ps I was running a Tial 44 which wasn't man enough to exhaust boost and went to a Turbosmart 45mm which has sorted the issue. Just a heads up.
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes its more fun just to sit back and smile to yourself while those who talk rubbish talk their rubbish knowing you have all of the evidence you need to make them look foolish just sitting there in your back pocket.....
> 
> Hopefully some of them will learn patience and choose to keep their mouths closed in the future until they have all of the facts. :roll:
> 
> Thanks for the tip about the waste gate. We shall see soon enough.
> 
> Cheers!
Click to expand...

Well done Keith  that's priceless  will look forward to ordering a stage 3 when they are ready, all ready spoke to Evan about a group buy with a few others on here ;-)


----------



## hugy

Harmony at last


----------



## jonnyc




----------



## moncler1

Good job Loba refuse to sell me a fuel pump then.


----------



## jonnyc

^^^ ?????... Thought you had a Loba Turbo though Rob..? :/


----------



## moncler1

That's true enough, but I didn't realise there were restrictions as to where I could take my car after the Loba unit was fitted.

It's their perogative of course to only sell stuff to who they want to. No biggie.


----------



## LEO-RS

£1000 saved Rob, they've done you a favour.

Jonny, are you still running stock fuelling? Supporting 650hp no problems? Same pump and injectors as standard or have I missed the post about the fuelling upgrade?


----------



## moncler1

FM, we agree.


----------



## [email protected]

Mitchy said:


> £1000 saved Rob, they've done you a favour.
> 
> Jonny, are you still running stock fuelling? Supporting 650hp no problems? Same pump and injectors as standard or have I missed the post about the fuelling upgrade?


The fueling system is completely standard.


----------



## jonnyc

Mitchy said:


> Jonny, are you still running stock fuelling? Supporting 650hp no problems? Same pump and injectors as standard or have I missed the post about the fuelling upgrade?


This graph below tells you all you need to know about the fuel system.. Both cars are running 100% stock fuel systems. Yet Revo, MRC and others say they are out of fuel..


----------



## Mule

You said so yourself mate.....

When you were in the Revo stables.... I was the one that said otherwise!

Since its Robs car and it does 465hp without WMI, then according to the graphs (fuel and Lambda) then no more than 560hp is achieved.

Which is the max on the GTX3071R and as I have stated previously, then its in line with what Garrett themselves are flowing on the turbo. That also corresponds to the WG dutycycle.

So I havent seen anything here that says "MORE THAN 600HP".....

So I am glad that Keith posted this. In fact, its perfect!


----------



## Rosso TT

So, i presume this data if off a GTX3071R T3 flanged and 0.82 A/R correct?


----------



## [email protected]

Mule said:


> You said so yourself mate.....
> 
> When you were in the Revo stables.... I was the one that said otherwise!
> 
> Since its Robs car and it does 465hp without WMI, then according to the graphs (fuel and Lambda) then no more than 560hp is achieved.
> 
> Which is the max on the GTX3071R and as I have stated previously, then its in line with what Garrett themselves are flowing on the turbo. That also corresponds to the WG dutycycle.
> 
> So I havent seen anything here that says "MORE THAN 600HP".....
> 
> So I am glad that Keith posted this. In fact, its perfect!


You know nothing about how this works apparently. How much power difference does 11 more degrees of advance timing make, you think?

Also, Garrett has never put a GTX3071R on an Audi 2.5T engine with a successful calibration to operate it so they have no clue how much power it would make.

But hey, the internet says so and since the only value you can bring to this discussion is regurgitated information from websites, I guess it suits your purposes. I might pay attention to something you say if you had any actual experience but you are one who just talks out his ass for entertainment aiding the decline of the EU further into lazy self entitlement while somebody is paying you to do a job you don't do.


----------



## jamman

Be warned I can hear Eeyores toys coming out the cot all the way over here in Norfolk. :lol:



wja96 said:


> I think Mule has lost the plot fractionally.


You don't say :wink: :lol:


----------



## LEO-RS

Keith, just looking through some VCDS logs I done donkeys ago, cant remember which tune but below shows..

revs/IAT/Speed/Lambda-ACT/Lambda-Req/Fuel Px-Act/Fuel Px-Req/Boost-Act/Boost-Req/OAT










Paying particular attention to Fuel Px Act, it's giving 120+bar of fuel delivery in 4th gear, requested slightly lower, how does a 650hp car run off standard pump and standard injectors with less fuel pressure request than a car with 250hp less? Genuine question, just interested?

Also Keith, you will know more than anyone else, but what are the TTRS's fuel limits, if you've run 650, were you at max fuel delivery or was there more to go? The standard goodies are only running at 50% efficiency out the box? Its unusual for a car to double its horsepower and not have any issues with standard fuelling, so what's the secrets, if indeed there are any?

Not sure I've heard MRC complain about fuel, when I enquired about S3 hybrid, there was definitely no mention of a fuelling upgrade required but hey ho, I dont know how things have moved on since then.

TTS have just released a very interesting graph, 520bhp, no WMI, was that this magic intercooler of Forge's or the extra fuel they were so desperately needing, or a combination of both? I wish TTS would give us their thoughts on the forums but I know they wont.

edited for typos


----------



## jonnyc

Mule said:


> So I havent seen anything here that says "MORE THAN 600HP".....
> 
> So I am glad that Keith posted this. In fact, its perfect!


Enough said.. You don't have a clue :lol:



Rosso TT said:


> So, i presume this data if off a GTX3071R T3 flanged and 0.82 A/R correct?


Yep, along with the APR Stage 3 manifold & hardware etc.. The new EWG manifold design and turbo spec should see some good gains all round too, interested to see the results myself..

-----

Hey Keith,

Why don't you install a GTX5533R on my car? Garrett says 1100-1800hp.. I'd be happy with that??


----------



## jamman

Mitchy, I'm sure Dave would mate they just have no time at the moment due to work load and manpower.


----------



## moncler1

The internet has cheapened experience, or maybe that's just a reflection of society.

Anyway, here's a pic. (NOT found on the net, actually taken by a friend. Good isn't it).


----------



## LEO-RS

jamman said:


> Mitchy, I'm sure Dave would mate they just have no time at the moment due to work load and manpower.


Yeah I know, it's unfortunate as that green machine has a lot of history and the owners undoubtedly a lot of knowledge to share. Way of the world though, everyone is running around mad these days. I guess they try to keep out of the swinging handbag sessions and bitching that goes on too which is I suppose is a smart move.


----------



## moncler1

Agree again, completely. I think they look better keeping out of it.

They have always been very helpful and open with me and done great work on the car, and I'm sure they are no different to all their other customers, or even people who are considering work on their car. And it's always nice when at their place to see the development on the green car.


----------



## LEO-RS

[email protected] said:


> You know nothing about how this works apparently. How much power difference does 11 more degrees of advance timing make, you think?


Keith, I have used standard 99 fuel at the drag strip and usually trap around 119-122mph.
I then used NF race octane booster and started trapping 122-123 consistantly
I then used Torco accelerator fuel additive and was trapping 122-124mph.

Many people have said octane boosters do not work but in my experience having used them 3-4x now, there is a definite and noticeable improvement. Even without a map adaptation so the answer obviously lies with the advance of timing. If my terminals are increasing by 2mph through timing advance alone on an unadapted learning ecu then I suspect there are very good gains to be made for proper race fuel on a properly setup tune. At 120mph terminals Im estimating my car at 425bhp, at 124mph terminals Im genuinely in the belief that there is 450bhp there. The difference is not placebo, its definitely apparent. Octane boosters on this engine definitely do work.

Anyway, doesnt answer your question but I would be interested to know the answer. If it's dry, ill be heading to the drag strip on Sunday for the last event of the season, have some NF race to put in and will try and log this through VCDS to see how much additional advance the additive is giving me.


----------



## LEO-RS

Twice in one day Rob.

Behave yourself :lol: :wink:


----------



## jamman

@moncler1 What a great picture reminds me of my ex.

Sorry OP back OT :wink:


----------



## Mule

Enough to make the engine go pop apparently.....

Since the turbo cant flow no more, then advance timing kills the engine. 



[email protected] said:


> You know nothing about how this works apparently. How much power difference does 11 more degrees of advance timing make, you think?


----------



## Mule

Revo altered the map for the Loba turbo with lower boost and the HPFP from Loba and the IC from Forge helped achieve those numbers running no WMI.

So they are now seeing what I told could be done from the beginning using the proper hardware. A good IC means the world for this car and can work wonders. Thats why the THS is seeing 2-6C above ambient at WOT for me.

Now I am just waiting for the Revo map to be installed on my car written specifically for the Loba.



Mitchy said:


> TTS have just released a very interesting graph, 520bhp, no WMI, was that this magic intercooler of Forge's or the extra fuel they were so desperately needing, or a combination of both? I wish TTS would give us their thoughts on the forums but I know they wont.
> 
> edited for typos


----------



## jamman

Is the needle stuck on the record, here we go again the fool just can't help himself.

I'm sure we are due a rant on some massive contract he's just completed. :roll:


----------



## jonnyc

Mule said:


> Enough to make the engine go pop apparently.....
> 
> Since the turbo cant flow no more, then advance timing kills the engine.
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected] said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know nothing about how this works apparently. How much power difference does 11 more degrees of advance timing make, you think?
Click to expand...

LOL!! Priceless... :roll:


----------



## Tim Radley

[email protected] said:


> You know nothing about how this works apparently. How much power difference does 11 more degrees of advance timing make, you think?


Hahahaha. I just did a search on the mitsubishi forum and apparently 2 degrees makes about 5bhp more. LMAO. Funny my evo gained 54bhp with 2 degrees more advance on pump. Run it on proper race fuel you can get 10 degrees more and an extra 140bhp. Anyway, back to internet tuning :?


----------



## SuperRS

THS on Chris car gets well over 25 degrees ambient at WOT


----------



## Mule

Logs??



SuperRS said:


> THS on Chris car gets well over 25 degrees ambient at WOT


----------



## jonnyc

SuperRS said:


> THS on Chris car gets well over 25 degrees ambient at WOT


Impossible.. Surely that would contradict what Mule has stated?


----------



## Demessiah

Mule said:


> the THS is seeing 2-6C above ambient at WOT for me.


Logs??


----------



## [email protected]

Mitchy said:


> Keith, just looking through some VCDS logs I done donkeys ago, cant remember which tune but below shows..
> 
> revs/IAT/Speed/Lambda-ACT/Lambda-Req/Fuel Px-Act/Fuel Px-Req/Boost-Act/Boost-Req/OAT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paying particular attention to Fuel Px Act, it's giving 120+bar of fuel delivery in 4th gear, requested slightly lower, how does a 650hp car run off standard pump and standard injectors with less fuel pressure request than a car with 250hp less? Genuine question, just interested?
> 
> Also Keith, you will know more than anyone else, but what are the TTRS's fuel limits, if you've run 650, were you at max fuel delivery or was there more to go? The standard goodies are only running at 50% efficiency out the box? Its unusual for a car to double its horsepower and not have any issues with standard fuelling, so what's the secrets, if indeed there are any?
> 
> Not sure I've heard MRC complain about fuel, when I enquired about S3 hybrid, there was definitely no mention of a fuelling upgrade required but hey ho, I dont know how things have moved on since then.
> 
> TTS have just released a very interesting graph, 520bhp, no WMI, was that this magic intercooler of Forge's or the extra fuel they were so desperately needing, or a combination of both? I wish TTS would give us their thoughts on the forums but I know they wont.
> 
> edited for typos


Hey there, to clarify, is your question "why does JC's car run at the same or lower high pressure fuel pump pressure as my car?"

I just wanted to make sure that's what you mean before I answer.

Cheers!


----------



## V6RUL

Demessiah said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> 
> the THS is seeing 2-6C above ambient at WOT for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Logs??
Click to expand...

Very difficult to believe as i run 6C above ambient, off boost, based on DIS vs boost pipe temp sensor
Steve


----------



## [email protected]

Tim Radley said:


> [email protected] said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know nothing about how this works apparently. How much power difference does 11 more degrees of advance timing make, you think?
> 
> 
> 
> Hahahaha. I just did a search on the mitsubishi forum and apparently 2 degrees makes about 5bhp more. LMAO. Funny my evo gained 54bhp with 2 degrees more advance on pump. Run it on proper race fuel you can get 10 degrees more and an extra 140bhp. Anyway, back to internet tuning :?
Click to expand...

We put race gas in without tuning and lost 60bhp. I'm sure that's impossible though. [smiley=bomb.gif]


----------



## Tim Radley

[email protected] said:


> We put race gas in without tuning and lost 60bhp. I'm sure that's impossible though. [smiley=bomb.gif]


Wikipedia it


----------



## jonnyc

Tim Radley said:


> [email protected] said:
> 
> 
> 
> We put race gas in without tuning and lost 60bhp. I'm sure that's impossible though. [smiley=bomb.gif]
> 
> 
> 
> Wikipedia it
Click to expand...

 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## LEO-RS

[email protected] said:


> Mitchy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keith, just looking through some VCDS logs I done donkeys ago, cant remember which tune but below shows..
> 
> revs/IAT/Speed/Lambda-ACT/Lambda-Req/Fuel Px-Act/Fuel Px-Req/Boost-Act/Boost-Req/OAT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paying particular attention to Fuel Px Act, it's giving 120+bar of fuel delivery in 4th gear, requested slightly lower, how does a 650hp car run off standard pump and standard injectors with less fuel pressure request than a car with 250hp less? Genuine question, just interested?
> 
> Also Keith, you will know more than anyone else, but what are the TTRS's fuel limits, if you've run 650, were you at max fuel delivery or was there more to go? The standard goodies are only running at 50% efficiency out the box? Its unusual for a car to double its horsepower and not have any issues with standard fuelling, so what's the secrets, if indeed there are any?
> 
> Not sure I've heard MRC complain about fuel, when I enquired about S3 hybrid, there was definitely no mention of a fuelling upgrade required but hey ho, I dont know how things have moved on since then.
> 
> TTS have just released a very interesting graph, 520bhp, no WMI, was that this magic intercooler of Forge's or the extra fuel they were so desperately needing, or a combination of both? I wish TTS would give us their thoughts on the forums but I know they wont.
> 
> edited for typos
> 
> 
> 
> Hey there, to clarify, is your question "why does JC's car run at the same or lower high pressure fuel pump pressure as my car?"
> 
> I just wanted to make sure that's what you mean before I answer.
> 
> Cheers!
Click to expand...

Indeed it is Keith


----------



## [email protected]

Mitchy said:


> [email protected] said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mitchy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keith, just looking through some VCDS logs I done donkeys ago, cant remember which tune but below shows..
> 
> revs/IAT/Speed/Lambda-ACT/Lambda-Req/Fuel Px-Act/Fuel Px-Req/Boost-Act/Boost-Req/OAT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paying particular attention to Fuel Px Act, it's giving 120+bar of fuel delivery in 4th gear, requested slightly lower, how does a 650hp car run off standard pump and standard injectors with less fuel pressure request than a car with 250hp less? Genuine question, just interested?
> 
> Also Keith, you will know more than anyone else, but what are the TTRS's fuel limits, if you've run 650, were you at max fuel delivery or was there more to go? The standard goodies are only running at 50% efficiency out the box? Its unusual for a car to double its horsepower and not have any issues with standard fuelling, so what's the secrets, if indeed there are any?
> 
> Not sure I've heard MRC complain about fuel, when I enquired about S3 hybrid, there was definitely no mention of a fuelling upgrade required but hey ho, I dont know how things have moved on since then.
> 
> TTS have just released a very interesting graph, 520bhp, no WMI, was that this magic intercooler of Forge's or the extra fuel they were so desperately needing, or a combination of both? I wish TTS would give us their thoughts on the forums but I know they wont.
> 
> edited for typos
> 
> 
> 
> Hey there, to clarify, is your question "why does JC's car run at the same or lower high pressure fuel pump pressure as my car?"
> 
> I just wanted to make sure that's what you mean before I answer.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed it is Keith
Click to expand...

Ok, cool.

The amount of pressure generated by the HPFP in to the fuel rail doesn't determine how much fuel is being sprayed by the injectors in to the combustion chamber.

Injector On Time is the amount of time the injector stays open and sprays fuel into the cylinder.

For example only, lets say that for every millisecond of injector on time, the injector sprays 100cc of fuel.

So, your car might have a Rail Pressure of 120 bar and on time of 5ms or 500cc of fuel being sprayed each time.

JC's car might have a Rail Pressure of 120 bar and on time of 7ms or 700cc of fuel being sprayed each time.

You can lower the amount of on time required by increasing the Rail Pressure to say 150 bar. Now that same 1ms of on time might equal 120cc of fuel.

If the HPFP can't keep up, when the injectors open, the Rail Pressure will fall dramatically.

In the case of the 2.5T, Rail Pressure won't drop at around 120 bar unless you keep the injectors open for more 8ms each cycle.

This all means that there is plenty of room in the OEM fueling system to support big power.

The reason JC's car and your car run similar Rail Pressures is because he is seeing more Injector On Time and therefore spraying fuel into the cylinder for longer periods of time than you are to support his extra power.

Our testing has shown that until you get above 8ms and Rail Pressure falls to below 90 bar, you won't have a need for an upgraded fueling system, either HPFP or injectors.

There are also some tricks a calibrator can do to get even more fuel from the OEM system. If you increase Rail Pressure you will no doubt reduce On Time. So, if you are 8ms at 120 bar, you can ask for 130 bar and reduce the Injector On Time.

A couple of problems present itself though when you are running the OEM fueling system to this extreme capacity.

Above circa 8.5ms of On Time, the fuel starts to hit the piston on its way up and droplets form resulting in misfires from an improperly atomized and mixed combustion chamber.

The OEM fuel system and most specifically the HPFP were not designed nor intended to run at pressures above 120 bar so you risk damage to the fuel system. I'm not saying you can't but it needs to be tested.

Now, what you saw on JC's logs of his Rail Pressure was not very clear to understand because we are requesting lower than we are achieving. The reason for this, is because its a R&D calibration to test operation and it was easier to ask for more than OEM fuel pressure in a different way than by increasing the requested pressure map. So I imagine that has created some confusion and APR will/has never released a production calibration that works like that.

And another caveat is that you don't care about Injector On Time during peak torque. On Time can go as high as 11 or 12 and not create any problems because the engine is moving at slower speeds and therefore doesn't suffer the problem of droplets forming on the piston like at 5500 rpm's plus where the engine is moving much more quickly.

Does this answer your question?


----------



## LEO-RS

Yes, perfect sense Keith, thanks for the explanation. Spanner in the works was caused by the revo/loba situation. One wonders why they didn't they just increase injector duty time.


----------



## Demessiah

It must just be revo then, MRC didnt mention any problems with fuel supply.


----------



## jonnyc

Demessiah said:


> It must just be revo then, MRC didnt mention any problems with fuel supply.


Wouldn't be the first time they have attempted to fix software shortcomings with hardware solutions.. Saying that, MRC made less HP than Revo did when tuning the same Loba 500+ turbo on Morpheous' car.. So whatever that means.

At the end of the day, whoever you might be, you make your choice, and if you're happy, thats all that matters


----------



## Demessiah

Not sure if its the same car or not but MRC showed me some plots of a loba they did.

Got it upto 500 but pulled it back to 480 as they said it would spend alot of time on the track. They say that I should be good for 500 with no fueling changes as mine will be mainly a road car.

Not sure if mine is a rebranded loba but the graphs were almost identical upto 4500rpm where they reduced my torque because of excessive heat.


----------



## LEO-RS

Morpheus car was running Wagner cooler and initially the car was struggling with the loba, MRC couldnt even get 450 from the car. They then fitted the THS, a new intake and mods to the intake manifold and supposedly cracked 500+ ps far surpassing revo's figures. This is without WMI, he didn't have it fitted. I know you have suggested its a 475 max turbo but both MRC and revo have now reportedly made 500+ (no meth)

It's ashame Morpheus keeps off the forums too.


----------



## Demessiah

sounds like the same car then, and MRCs rollers seem a bit tighter than the others by me.


----------



## jonnyc

Mitchy said:


> Morpheus car was running Wagner cooler and initially the car was struggling with the loba, MRC couldnt even get 450 from the car. They then fitted the THS, a new intake and mods to the intake manifold and supposedly cracked 500+ ps far surpassing revo's figures. This is without WMI, he didn't have it fitted. I know you have suggested its a 475 max turbo but both MRC and revo have now reportedly made 500+ (no meth)
> 
> It's ashame Morpheus keeps off the forums too.


Hang on.. I thought Revo made 520hp without Meth?..

See my point?.. :wink:


----------



## Demessiah

500 on MRCs rollers would probably be 520 on someone like awesomes rollers


----------



## Mule

Revo did pass 520hp on the Loba with the new Forge IC and HPFP.

At least they have proven it by showing dyno sheets. Unlike others....

The only I would like for the car to be taken to another dyno to get the numbers verified.

So your'e wrong again Jonny......


----------



## LEO-RS

Demessiah said:


> 500 on MRCs rollers probably could be 520 on someone like awesomes rollers


MRC use PS figures, not bhp. To be fair, I've found them to be pretty much spot on. Neither conservative or wild, I expected around 420-425bhp from my S2 and that's what they showed. (433ps for me = 427, I quote 425)

The plot if Morpheus car I remember seeing was 503ps which is actually less than 500bhp.

Jonny, good point. To be fair, after Keith's post, it proves that the loba hpfp is a red herring, completely pointless. Any additional gains may be down to this new forge cooler and of course a cheeky bit of meth or if no meth, octane/race fuel or just perhaps a happy dyno. As you said, it's the delta figure rather than the absolute on the TTS graph.


----------



## jamman

Mule said:


> So your'e wrong again Jonny......


Wrong again Jonny...... :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## [email protected]

Mitchy said:


> Yes, perfect sense Keith, thanks for the explanation. Spanner in the works was caused by the revo/loba situation. One wonders why they didn't they just increase injector duty time.


I really don't understand how that goes down between companies. Maybe they decided to conspire to sell HPFP's? lol

I know other independent calibrators who have worked with the hybrid on TTRS' and universally I am told the turbo runs out before the fueling does and intake air temperatures along with the necessity to reduce timing to avoid knock are the problems in making more power.

When we data logged a hybrid here on Revo 989 the turbo was flat out the entire time and there was still plenty of fuel left.


----------



## jonnyc

Demessiah said:


> 500 on MRCs rollers probably could be 520 on someone like awesomes rollers


Im not disputing figures, as thats a whole can of worms there and I'd rather that this thread is kept on topic really.

I will however happily believe 1/4 mile times and speed trap data from Santa Pod and/or side by side video's.. Other than than, dynos (unless used for back to back testing) delta, or same day back to back runs, really don't mean anything to me..



Mule said:


> So your'e wrong again Jonny......


Might have guessed that lol.. I suppose that means you're right, again!!.. Wooo, i'm happy for you Von


----------



## [email protected]

jonnyc said:


> Demessiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 500 on MRCs rollers probably could be 520 on someone like awesomes rollers
> 
> 
> 
> Im not disputing figures, as thats a whole can of worms there and I'd rather that this thread is kept on topic really.
> 
> I will however happily believe 1/4 mile times and speed trap data from Santa Pod and/or side by side video's.. Other than than, dynos (unless used for back to back testing) delta, or same day back to back runs, really don't mean anything to me..
> 
> 
> 
> Mule said:
> 
> 
> 
> So your'e wrong again Jonny......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Might have guessed that lol.. I suppose that means you're right, again!!.. Wooo, i'm happy for you Von
Click to expand...

Something else everyone needs to consider is that TTRS' dyno terribly due to the intake air temp problem. These cars perform loads better in clean air than they do on a dyno.

Which means, once we have intercoolers that perform on the dyno as well as they do on the street, reported numbers are going to go up but the cars will still perform the same in acceleration measurements.


----------



## Mule

Really????????????????????


----------



## jaybyme

That's true enough Keith, I can't get my car to go above +25c ambient no matter what I do,most of the time it's hard to get it above +20c


----------



## Tim Radley

What power did you see at Revo Jonny? I can't remember now it was a year ago and i can't be arsed to search back through all the posts. Was it on hybrid then or stock turbo?


----------



## jonnyc

Tim Radley said:


> What power did you see at Revo Jonny? I can't remember now it was a year ago and i can't be arsed to search back through all the posts. Was it on hybrid then or stock turbo?


489bhp without meth on the Owens Hrybrid, shortly before it melted 3 pistons, trashed the head and scored the shit out of the block..


----------



## Dayer2910

I love this thread...all very amusing, from a laymans point of view, APR seem very professional but flogging a dead horse with certain forum members.

When I get the time my car will get the APR map without a doubt....


----------



## Tim Radley

jonnyc said:


> 489bhp without meth on the Owens Hrybrid, shortly before it melted 3 pistons, trashed the head and scored the shit out of the block..


Yes i remember that just wasn't sure if you ran it with them again after the motor was rebuilt or what spec it was when you did dyno next.


----------



## jonnyc

As soon as it was ran in and seemed as if the problems were resolved and everything 'seemed' safe I requested that Revo load the original stock Audi file and promptly got in touch with an alternative tuner!..

I did however then run an APR file on the car with the hybrid but never got any numbers, felt pretty quick though.. Still, no comparison from the hybrid to Stage III hardware in my experience..


----------



## talk-torque

Dayer2910 said:


> I love this thread...all very amusing, from a laymans point of view, APR seem very professional but flogging a dead horse with certain forum members.
> 
> When I get the time my car will get the APR map without a doubt....


Surely you mean a dead donkey? :wink:

Seriously, the interesting tech makes it worth putting up with the side show, which in itself is quite amusing!


----------



## Mule

Email??



Demessiah said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> 
> the THS is seeing 2-6C above ambient at WOT for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Logs??
Click to expand...


----------



## ved789

Really informative thread Gents.
Learning a sh1t lot about the fueling.


----------



## ved789

jonnyc said:


> Tim Radley said:
> 
> 
> 
> What power did you see at Revo Jonny? I can't remember now it was a year ago and i can't be arsed to search back through all the posts. Was it on hybrid then or stock turbo?
> 
> 
> 
> 489bhp without meth on the Owens Hrybrid, shortly before it melted 3 pistons, trashed the head and scored the shit out of the block..
Click to expand...

JC ; What boost and timing advance were you running when this happened ? Genuinely interested. Thanks


----------



## Mule

Nice Austin Healey head there.....  



Tim Radley said:


> It is true the engine is undergoing some modifications.
> 
> Jonny wanted to up the performance and after much discussion we decided that this meant looking for better response. My view is you need torque for that so i've decided to make some drastic modifications to the cylinder head.
> 
> Now we all know the engines that give the best low down torque are old style V8's with 2-valves so i'm converting the head from 4-valves per cylinder to 2-valves per cylinder.
> 
> I've attached a photo of the work in progress. Its a huge job so please don't laugh just yet, i can assue you then its done it will look awesome.


----------



## Demessiah

Mule said:


> Email??
> 
> 
> 
> Demessiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mule said:
> 
> 
> 
> the THS is seeing 2-6C above ambient at WOT for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Logs??
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

PM sent


----------



## LEO-RS

jonnyc said:


> I will however happily believe 1/4 mile times and speed trap data from Santa Pod and/or side by side video's..


Now now Jonny, for the first 3yrs of your TTRS ownership you quoted figures from a disused runway with 2 cones apparently set 402m apart with a stop watch for a timing aid :wink:

Any official dragstrip timeslip from 1 of the 4 UK venues count for me, (Like it did for you when you quoted times from York raceway) We do not all live in the south of England so have to make do with what is available to us. You could say Crail offers an unfair advantage because its quieter and colder but Santapod is warmer and stickier so launching is a lot easier, swings and roundabouts, either way, a timeslip is a timeslip and you're still in 2nd place Mr Cocker :wink:


----------



## Mule

Since its not a race engine, you will have the lead some time yet....

I wonder if APR should do the GTX3076R and turn down the boost and keep timing within values that are set to last and not create a meltdown...

A good healthy 550 TRUE HP would be good for the car, and APR should focus on drivetrain upgrades like driveshafts.

Instead of pushing very hard boost, then keep lower boost longer and get the HP desired by rotating more RPM's.

It can easily spin to 8000 and that would mean a lot to top end performance if the map of the turbo matches.


----------



## jonnyc

Mitchy said:


> Now now Jonny, for the first 3yrs of your TTRS ownership you quoted figures from a disused runway with 2 cones apparently set 402m apart with a stop watch for a timing aid :wink:
> 
> Any official dragstrip timeslip from 1 of the 4 UK venues count for me, (Like it did for you when you quoted times from York raceway) We do not all live in the south of England so have to make do with what is available to us. You could say Crail offers an unfair advantage because its quieter and colder but Santapod is warmer and stickier so launching is a lot easier, swings and roundabouts, either way, a timeslip is a timeslip and you're still in 2nd place Mr Cocker :wink:


I seriously meant nothing by that.. Lol.. Chill..


----------



## jonnyc

Mule said:


> Since its not a race engine, you will have the lead some time yet....


Meaning?



Mule said:


> I wonder if APR should do the GTX3076R and turn down the boost and keep timing within values that are set to last and not create a meltdown...


Meltdown? So what did exactly happen?.. Im intrigued.. And why the delay you speak of.. I'd love you to get some specific details written down (mainly for our amusement)



Mule said:


> A good healthy 550 TRUE HP would be good for the car, and APR should focus on drivetrain upgrades like driveshafts


Why? Do they often break?..



Mule said:


> Instead of pushing very hard boost, then keep lower boost longer and get the HP desired by rotating more RPM's. It can easily spin to 8000 and that would mean a lot to top end performance if the map of the turbo matches.


Where did you read that?.. Or maybe someone with 'inside knowledge' told you? :lol: This honestly just shows how much you know..

The head profile, ports, valves, springs, retainers, rockers are all IDENTICAL to the 2.0TFSI head.. Of which its well known anything over 7400rpm will likely cause issues.. Are you still trying to convince people its half a VAG V10? lol..

And so it goes on haha..


----------



## neilc

First time I have ever read this thread and its a great read Jonny  I met Rob at TTS a few days ago and had a good look round his red Loba 500 TTRS and that's a beast. He mentioned yours so thought I would read from start to finish.

Nice work


----------



## jamman

Opps wrong again :wink:


----------



## jonnyc

neilc said:


> First time I have ever read this thread and its a great read Jonny  I met Rob at TTS a few days ago and had a good look round his red Loba 500 TTRS and that's a beast. He mentioned yours so thought I would read from start to finish.
> 
> Nice work


Cool thanks.. 



jamman said:


>


Maybe this should just be my standard response to his idiotic statements??.. Although, it would invariably just end up as a thread full of pictures of said Donkey..


----------



## LEO-RS

Von, did you get hold of any further info about that 10sec loba DSG? I would have thought there would be a few kicking around by now? Seems to be a few RS3's about with a hybrid?


----------



## jonnyc

Mitchy said:


> Von, did you get hold of any further info about that 10sec loba DSG? I would have thought there would be a few kicking around by now? Seems to be a few RS3's about with a hybrid?


 This should be good..


----------



## SuperRS

8000rpm on a stock engine lol, better have some valvetrain on order with Audi, it will be needed


----------



## jaybyme

Haven't there been a few RS3's with propshaft issues


----------



## Mule

At least two have reported snapped shafts...



jaybyme said:


> Haven't there been a few RS3's with propshaft issues


----------



## Mule

Nope....the RS4 B7 spins easily to 8250....The 5 Cyl can do the same.

I broke the gearbox doing a downshift and it went off the scale like a rocket before I could slam the clutch.

Nothing happened to the engine, but the gearbox died in 1st gear.



SuperRS said:


> 8000rpm on a stock engine lol, better have some valvetrain on order with Audi, it will be needed


----------



## Mule

Hi Craig.

I have actually forgotten all about it...Havent asked tbh about updated times.



Mitchy said:


> Von, did you get hold of any further info about that 10sec loba DSG? I would have thought there would be a few kicking around by now? Seems to be a few RS3's about with a hybrid?


----------



## mad chemist

Mule said:


> Nope....the RS4 B7 spins easily to 8250....The 5 Cyl can do the same.
> 
> I broke the gearbox doing a downshift and it went off the scale like a rocket before I could slam the clutch.
> 
> Nothing happened to the engine, but the gearbox died in 1st gear.
> 
> 
> 
> SuperRS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 8000rpm on a stock engine lol, better have some valvetrain on order with Audi, it will be needed
Click to expand...

Looks like the Audi Quattro Concept has a reline rated at 8,000 rpm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Vo ... gines#CEPA


----------



## SuperRS

Mule said:


> Nope....the RS4 B7 spins easily to 8250....The 5 Cyl can do the same.
> 
> I broke the gearbox doing a downshift and it went off the scale like a rocket before I could slam the clutch.
> 
> Nothing happened to the engine, but the gearbox died in 1st gear.
> 
> 
> 
> SuperRS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 8000rpm on a stock engine lol, better have some valvetrain on order with Audi, it will be needed
Click to expand...

Rs4 is a completely different beast though. Yours broke a gearbox engine fine, and mine under the same conditions bent valves but the gearbox remained fine!


----------



## Mule

Same engine, and I bet the 408HP comes from the higher RPM.

It has the same torque curve, so maybe running slightly higher boost as well.



mad chemist said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope....the RS4 B7 spins easily to 8250....The 5 Cyl can do the same.
> 
> I broke the gearbox doing a downshift and it went off the scale like a rocket before I could slam the clutch.
> 
> Nothing happened to the engine, but the gearbox died in 1st gear.
> 
> 
> 
> SuperRS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 8000rpm on a stock engine lol, better have some valvetrain on order with Audi, it will be needed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looks like the Audi Quattro Concept has a reline rated at 8,000 rpm:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Vo ... gines#CEPA
Click to expand...


----------



## jonnyc

Categorically the stock valve-train in the TTRS head CAN NOT handle 8000rpm .. Never mind 'easily'

Are you honestly basing this claim on the following?



Mule said:


> Nope....the RS4 B7 spins easily to 8250....The 5 Cyl can do the same.
> 
> I broke the gearbox doing a downshift and it went off the scale like a rocket before I could slam the clutch.
> 
> Nothing happened to the engine, but the gearbox died in 1st


Or are you now claiming 8250rpm?! Lol. It gets better and better!!!


----------



## Mule

http://vagoc.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=12201


----------



## jonnyc

Ahh, a random link to an unrelated issue.. Brilliant


----------



## moncler1

But it does show how technically in depth Vagoc goes with very helpful answers to others problems.. Great forum


----------



## Mule

I thought your memory served you well....

But I guess the racegas got to you before age did....



jonnyc said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> 
> A good healthy 550 TRUE HP would be good for the car, and APR should focus on drivetrain upgrades like driveshafts
> 
> 
> 
> Why? Do they often break?..
Click to expand...


----------



## jamman

This is all getting a little sad and very tiresome ruining an otherwise interesting thread well done Eeyore you've achieved your aim :roll:

[email protected]·er (w ng k r). n. Chiefly British Vulgar Slang. 1. A person who masturbates. 2. A detestable person


----------



## jonnyc

Mule said:


> I thought your memory served you well....
> 
> But I guess the racegas got to you before age did....


Jason broke a prop, I havent.. Or driveshafts, or any drivetrain parts actually.. I presume this is the start of a new rumour?



jamman said:


> This is all getting a little sad and very tiresome ruining an otherwise interesting thread well done Eeyore you've achieved your aim :roll:
> 
> [email protected]·er (w ng k r). n. Chiefly British Vulgar Slang. 1. A person who masturbates. 2. A detestable person


Shame the mods aren't prepared to take action..

I'd urge anyone to look at Mules 'posts' list on his personal profile and count how many are not related in some way to me.. STALKERRRR lol


----------



## Mule

Your calling the victim card again?

Thought you could defend yourself?

Maybe not.....


----------



## jonnyc

Mule said:


> Your calling the victim card again?
> 
> Thought you could defend yourself?
> 
> Maybe not.....


Not at all.. I have absolutely no reason at all to defend myself. Your just a parasite, annoying.. Nothing more.


----------



## jamman

jonnyc said:


> I'd urge anyone to look at Mules 'posts' list on his personal profile and count how many are not related in some way to me.. STALKERRRR lol


Not forgeting the countless abusive ones that have been deleted by the mods/admin.

It's obvious to anyone reading this thread that this "gentleman" has issues quite what the answer is I'm not sure.


----------



## Mule

I have learned a lesson today....

Dont argue with stupid people...they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!



jonnyc said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your calling the victim card again?
> 
> Thought you could defend yourself?
> 
> Maybe not.....
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all.. I have absolutely no reason at all to defend myself. Your just a parasite, annoying.. Nothing more.
Click to expand...


----------



## jonnyc

Brilliant!! So, now you can leave me alone! Result


----------



## jonnyc

Also, any danger that one of the mods can (yet again) clean my thread up of Mules posts? Would be nice to keep it that way from now on too


----------



## robokn

Would mean perhaps deleting the post as it has become a sponsorship post for APR who I believe are not forum
Sponsors as interesting as it may be

Sent from my iPhone using Magic


----------



## jonnyc

Hi Rob


----------



## SuperRS

Rob what exactly is your problem?

I just dont get it....


----------



## Mule

He's just tired of APR fanboys like 99% of the forum is....


----------



## jonnyc

Are you his bitch or something? Maybe let Rob speak for himself..


----------



## jamman

If you don't like the content dont read it, surely it is *that* simple.

This is getting pathetic too petty for words, seems a couple of people on here cant help themselves whenever the OP posts they are straight on it, grow up and get over yourselves.

Jealousy is all it's about this thread stinks of it especialy when you remember the rather abusive comments made by mule that have already been deleted.


----------



## Mule

No...

I see Rob as a man with integrity and very honest.

I always consider his posts very serious and constructive. Maybe you could learn from that?



jonnyc said:


> Are you his bitch or something? Maybe let Rob speak for himself..


----------



## jonnyc

You're simply on a mission to disrupt anything that I do on this forum.. The same was the case on VAGOC (until you were banned) and Facebook too.. You chase me around like a love sick teenager.. Stop it

Are there any moderators on this forum??..


----------



## Mule

Why are you always crying for help to the mods in here when you cant stand up for yourself?

You have very limited knowledge and when pushed, you cry for help instead of explaining things to the mere mortals.

Its not the 1st time and probably not the last...

You came in here to promote APR. Nothing else....no technical info regarding your project, but a lot of bullshit and promoting.

Pissing on all other sponsors.



jonnyc said:


> You're simply on a mission to disrupt anything that I do on this forum.. The same was the case on VAGOC (until you were banned) and Facebook too.. You chase me around like a love sick teenager.. Stop it
> 
> Are there any moderators on this forum??..


----------



## SuperRS

Mule said:


> No...
> 
> I see Rob as a man with integrity and very honest.
> 
> I always consider his posts very serious and constructive. Maybe you could learn from that?
> 
> 
> 
> jonnyc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you his bitch or something? Maybe let Rob speak for himself..
Click to expand...

He must post those serious and constructive comments in other threads. Maybe he could make some here


----------



## jamman

Mule said:


> .no technical info regarding your project


 :roll: :lol: :lol:

Oh dear


----------



## Mule

And both VAGoc and facebook was a lost cause...

You were a moderator on VAGoc and a lot of people left duu the the onesided promotion.

Facebook is moderated by APR fanboys, so ofcourse people that are seeing through all the crap, gets very unpopular.

A lot has left there too....a very good group, until a major tuner arrived.

All the interesting very technical people left and it was nothing but promotion once again.

Do we see the same tendency here? Oh yes we do....You leave a trail of nothing but sad stories, hearsay and no proof.

You havent done ONE unique thing to the TTRS by yourself.

On your behalf I am glad that APR stepped in and saved your ass. Doing that they have gotten themselves quite unpopular.



jonnyc said:


> You're simply on a mission to disrupt anything that I do on this forum.. The same was the case on VAGOC (until you were banned) and Facebook too.. You chase me around like a love sick teenager.. Stop it
> 
> Are there any moderators on this forum??..


----------



## jamman

Restraining order ?

Medication ?

The Vet ?


----------



## Ikon66

again I'm at a loss, we've been here before it just keeps going around in circles, i thought I leave this kind of stuff when I leave school for the night :lol:


----------



## SuperRS

Mule said:


> And both VAGoc and facebook was a lost cause...
> 
> You were a moderator on VAGoc and a lot of people left duu the the onesided promotion.
> 
> *Facebook is moderated* by APR fanboys, so ofcourse people that are seeing through all the crap, gets very unpopular.
> 
> A lot has left there too....a very good group, until a major tuner arrived.
> 
> All the interesting very technical people left and it was nothing but promotion once again.
> 
> Do we see the same tendency here? Oh yes we do....You leave a trail of nothing but sad stories, hearsay and no proof.
> 
> You havent done ONE unique thing to the TTRS by yourself.
> 
> On your behalf I am glad that APR stepped in and saved your ass. Doing that they have gotten themselves quite unpopular.
> 
> 
> 
> jonnyc said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're simply on a mission to disrupt anything that I do on this forum.. The same was the case on VAGOC (until you were banned) and Facebook too.. You chase me around like a love sick teenager.. Stop it
> 
> Are there any moderators on this forum??..
Click to expand...

My Facebook VAG Tuning group is not moderated.

Mule, its easy to knit pick and bash. If you can do a better job, go out there, do it, and prove people wrong. Its easy to talk from the sidelines whilst doing nothing themselves....


----------



## jamman

Ikon66 said:


> again I'm at a loss, we've been here before it just keeps going around in circles, i thought I leave this kind of stuff when I leave school for the night :lol:


Classic school quote coming up.................. He started it. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Always the same person.

Sort it out please Paul (for the third time) :wink:


----------



## Mule

I am talking about the group Jason started.....

You must have another group then.


----------



## jonnyc

I love how serious this all is lol.. It's pretty simple. Mule/Von/Brian has simply got a problem with me, nothing new.. But it's just really quite annoying when trying to maintain a constructive build thread that some find quite interesting to read..

I really don't see what the problem is here. If you don't like it, don't read it. Instead, he just spams away


----------



## Mule

Well. Constructive criticism is hard, when you dont have the knowledge to answer the questions.

Thats why you find it annoying.

Loba, MRC and a lot of others left the group when you entered and APR began their marketing campaign.

Like everywhere else on the forums.

So calm the fook down, and begin to build your car instead of having others to do it and pay it for you.

I havent seen one thing that has Jonny Cocker written on it here. But I see a lot with APR written ALL OVER it.....

Free adverstising is nice, but depending on the deliveryboy, it can backfire.

We are here because people want to see what THEY can do to a car....not what APR and others can do. That they can read on the websites of the companys....


----------



## kevtga

^^


----------



## jonnyc

SuperRS said:


> Mule, its easy to knit pick and bash. If you can do a better job, go out there, do it, and prove people wrong. Its easy to talk from the sidelines whilst doing nothing themselves....


Very good point actually there..

In actual fact, the most dramatic and interesting thing he's done with his TTRS is crash it at the Nurburgring lol..

Although that bird shit weld job on his compressor outlet pipe was rather spectacular!

Anyways, back that crash around the Nurburgring.. Actually the same track that he personally challenged me to 'race him for pinks' around.. PMSL.. Yep, you heard it.. This old, over weight bloke with zero racing experience is prepared to put his car on the line.. Talk about delusional!

I mean, the poor guy would probably kill himself!!.. I can imagine it now, the big old balding oaf turning green whilst missing gears & watching me disappear into the distance, eventually resulting in another nasty crash!!..

BUT.. At least his intake temps would have only been 2-6 degrees above ambient.. 

-----

Disclaimer..

All of the above is based on actual fact, all of which can be backed up with data.

... Apart from the last bit, that's clearly bollocks


----------



## Mule

Well Jonny.

Shit happens when you race. Nothing to cry about and thats what happens when pushing.

Regarding my compressor outlet pipe....at least we have done it ourselves. But what you saw was the raw pipe and nothing like the finished one. The guy that welded it, has actually done a superior job.

He has done a lot of racing cars by the way.

And the race for pinks is still up if you want. I dont care if I lose or crash. Thats just a part of it.

So stick it where your mouth is, and come along....if you dare.

I dont care if I am overweight and old compared to you....usually experience beats courage by a mile. And you need more than 600 laps of the Nordschleife to get where I am.

So lets race Cocker.....! Dare or disappear!



jonnyc said:


> SuperRS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mule, its easy to knit pick and bash. If you can do a better job, go out there, do it, and prove people wrong. Its easy to talk from the sidelines whilst doing nothing themselves....
> 
> 
> 
> Very good point actually there..
> 
> In actual fact, the most dramatic and interesting thing he's done with his TTRS is crash it at the Nurburgring lol..
> 
> Although that bird shit weld job on his compressor outlet pipe was rather spectacular!
> 
> Anyways, back that crash around the Nurburgring.. Actually the same track that he personally challenged me to 'race him for pinks' around.. PMSL.. Yep, you heard it.. This old, over weight bloke with zero racing experience is prepared to put his car on the line.. Talk about delusional!
> 
> I mean, the poor guy would probably kill himself!!.. I can imagine it now, the big old balding oaf turning green whilst missing gears & watching me disappear into the distance, eventually resulting in another nasty crash!!..
> 
> BUT.. At least his intake temps would have only been 2-6 degrees above ambient..
> 
> -----
> 
> Disclaimer..
> 
> All of the above is based on actual fact, all of which can be backed up with data.
> 
> ... Apart from the last bit, that's clearly bollocks
Click to expand...


----------



## jamman

Oh dear this is getting embarrassing :roll:


----------



## jonnyc

Mule said:


> So stick it where your mouth is


As much as I appreciate your offer I don't think my girlfriend would approve. And more to the point, that's just not my 'thing' .. Different strokes for different folks tho dude, I'm not judging..


----------



## Mule

Kentucky Fried Cocker???? 8)


----------



## neilc

Getting back to the point of the build thread Jonny , can I ask what suspension setup you are using as I seem to have missed that. I was talking to another TTRS owner and they had Bilstein Ps coilovers but removed quickly because they found them to stiff.

If you did say 5-6 trackdays a year like I do but still wanted goodish road comfort it is hard to get the compromise right.

P.s Just to comment on Mule's thoughts about build threads. I too have shipped my cars off to tuners to see my vision become reality because not everyone has the ability or equipment to do it themselves. And surely that's why the tuners are there to build your project for you and advise. Now I take my hat off to people who can do it themselves but this should not detract from others who want a tuner to do the work.


----------



## Mech33

[email protected] said:


> That being said, I am more than happy to answer any real and legitimate questions.


Hi Keith, thanks for all the great plots! Love the data. Regarding the kit, is the plan to release it with a new, larger intercooler, or just use the stock one?

Could you post more official pictures of the kit parts?  Thanks!


----------



## Mule

I use the PSS10 from Bilstein and find it to soft.

I want stiffer fronts since it bottoms out on the Nordschleife. They run soft front to combat understeer on the OEM geometry settings.



neilc said:


> Getting back to the point of the build thread Jonny , can I ask what suspension setup you are using as I seem to have missed that. I was talking to another TTRS owner and they had Bilstein Ps coilovers but removed quickly because they found them to stiff.
> 
> If you did say 5-6 trackdays a year like I do but still wanted goodish road comfort it is hard to get the compromise right.
> 
> P.s Just to comment on Mule's thoughts about build threads. I too have shipped my cars off to tuners to see my vision become reality because not everyone has the ability or equipment to do it themselves. And surely that's why the tuners are there to build your project for you and advise. Now I take my hat off to people who can do it themselves but this should not detract from others who want a tuner to do the work.


----------



## jamman

Like I said Neil, Mule is all over this thread like a rash :wink:


----------



## jonnyc

I'll just let him answer all the questions for me too now seen as how he knows so much about my car..


----------



## jonnyc

Ok.. So after two and a bit pages of idiocy I thought it would be nice to get this thread back on track..

Here are all of the logs posted by Keith @ APR on my car.. Great info, if anyone would like to ask questions feel free and ill be happy to explain more in detail..

I'm actually surprised no one asked much about them the first time around so here they are all in one place..

- - - - - - - - -

JC's Boost....










You could say the GTX3071R is maxed out on JC's car.....










Which produces these kinds of exhaust gas temperatures...nothing crazy but a touch higher than a release worthy product would see but its good testing to see how the Stage III hardware and other standard bits on the car hold up.










A nice example of how the secondary fueling surface (hardware protection lambda) keeps the EGT's sustainable....

Lambda gets as rich as .77 towards the end of the run.










And here is the actual Timing Angle we achieved with Race Gas...AND Yeah, that's 24 degrees advance at red line. :twisted: If you think that means JC's car is making a lot of power on Race Gas, that's because it is.










And here is Timing Correction for Knock.....










The spikes to 5 degrees of correction you see would be eliminated in a production version of this calibration but its ok for our uses during R&D.

And the Actual Timing Angle for Pump Gas.......

Needs a little bit of work before its ready for release but 13-15 degrees advance on Pump Gas on a turbo this size is pretty nice.










And here is Correction for Knock on Pump Gas. You can see the areas that need a little bit of adjustment to be considered worthy of public consumption but not bad for a R&D calibration.










I didn't do the best job of taking notes about the logs regarding IAT's but from the best I can tell, this is Intake Air Temperatures on the road with the small amount of Water Meth we sometimes use on JC's car turned on...










And this is a back to back run with the Water Meth turned off...










And now on to fueling....

Here is the Actual Low Pressure Fuel from JC's car...










And High Pressure Fuel Requested vs Actual.....The reason for the spikes over Requested is because there are a couple of different ways to get the ECU to ask for more High Pressure Fuel and as this is a R&D Calibration, the Calibration Engineers went with the easiest way to get the results they needed for testing. A production calibration would not look like this as Requested Fuel Pressure would be set in the ECU to what the car is actually making.










And for my last graph of the day, I thought I would give you a sneak peek of the upcoming comparison I plan to do....

Here is the difference in the amount of Injector On Time required to provide a Lambda of .79 - .81 at the same high pressure fuel pump request for both a Loba Hybrid and the APR R&D Stage III. When you need that much more fuel to make the same lambda, you are obviously adding in a bunch more air. :wink:










- - - - - - - - -

Hopefully this car mark the thread getting back on track!

Enjoy!


----------



## neilc

Sorry Jonny but are you running the Bilstein setup then :?:


----------



## jonnyc

neilc said:


> Sorry Jonny but are you running the Bilstein setup then :?:


Sorry mate no.. I have the AST/VWR race set up on mine.. Still developing it, made some recent changes which helped with both normal and track driving.. There is more info on my car build thread, pics etc..


----------



## neilc

jonnyc said:


> neilc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Jonny but are you running the Bilstein setup then :?:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry mate no.. I have the AST/VWR race set up on mine.. Still developing it, made some recent changes which helped with both normal and track driving.. There is more info on my car build thread, pics etc..
Click to expand...

Cheers Jonny , I will check it out


----------



## Mech33

You guys have any newer hardware pictures of the APR stuff, or any updates in general?


----------



## jonnyc

Mech33 said:


> You guys have any newer hardware pictures of the APR stuff, or any updates in general?


New parts on the way from the US as we speak.. Pics coming soon!! Can't wait myself.. Late Christmas present I think! Haha..


----------



## Mech33

jonnyc said:


> Mech33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You guys have any newer hardware pictures of the APR stuff, or any updates in general?
> 
> 
> 
> New parts on the way from the US as we speak.. Pics coming soon!! Can't wait myself.. Late Christmas present I think! Haha..
Click to expand...

Sounds like fun! Please snap some pics for us when it all arrives.


----------



## jonnyc

Ok so a pretty exciting update then!!

Here are some more detailed pictures and a reasonably detailed explaination of all of the new revised parts for the APR Stage III TTRS turbo kit.

As you know, along the way there have been some big developments made. The project has moved on such a long way in the last 8 months and these latest results of all the hard work really are pretty stunning!!

So, lets get started!

*Exhaust manifold*

So, you might remember the first kit featured a conventional T3 4-bolt flange style exhaust manifold. Made from cast high grade inconel. This has now been replaced in preference for a full V-Band externate wastegate design. This not only saves weight over the V1 manifold, but also allows for a far greater range of turbo's to be installed.

The V2 manifold has been package protected for turbo's able to flow up to around 1000bhp. Should make for some pretty serious cars out there in the future!

Another key benefit with moving to the external wastegate is safety. The wastegate port on an internal wastegate Garrett turbo is too small to flow enough exhaust gas from the 2.5TFSI to reduce boost significantly enough to place the car into reduced boost limp mode (around 5psi) Something that APR obviously wanted to retain, as a part of the OEM safety features in the ECU.

Here are some comparison shots to show the differences of the V1 to V2 manifold..

_Old vs New_

From the top you'll notice that the runners have been slightly re designed, this is for optimal flow to the external wastegate port.


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And from the underneath comparison picture its pretty plain to see the differences. The new revised manifold featuring a V-Band connections for the turbo housing, and wastegate.


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A couple of general shots of the new manifold.


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This next pic clearly shows the new exhaust gas temperature bung which is now featured as part of the design. Some cars run the EGT probe, and some don't. If your car happens to run without, you would simply block off this port with the supplied fitting.


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And the new V-Band connections in detail..


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Super smooth high quality casting surfaces on the inside of the manifold mean uninterrupted flow.


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And a picture finally of the collector design, pretty special, and the quality of the casting is second to none!!


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*Turbo*

The first turbo installed on my car was the Garrett GTX3071R Internal wastegate turbo. This showed great spool (2.1bar at 3400rpm) but lacked a little at the top end, only being able to hold 1.7bar to the 7400rpm redline.

This is enough for well over 600bhp, but for this to be achieved the turbo was having to be pushed pretty hard, in fact, totally flat out.

The next turbo on the list to try in conjunction with the new kit is the GTX3076R along with the Tial Stainless Steel exhaust housing. This not only again saves weight due to the Tial exhaust housing, but should allow lower boost to yield similar power levels, with less exhaust gas temperature and similar levels of spool and great transient response due to the billet wheel.

Some pics..


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This pic shows nicely the new Tial SS exhaust housing. Much smaller and lighter than the 4-bolt T-3 exhaust housing yet flows more. Got to love the V-Band too!!


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*Wastegate*

With the kit now using an external wastegate, the natural choice was to go again with Tial. Absolutely the best out there available today!

This specific gate is the Tial MV-S 38MM. With the new V-Band design in testing tial proved this wastegate to flow more than their old 44mm gate! Super light, and looks pretty cool too 


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*Exhaust Downturn*

Again another new part. Due to the Tial SS exhaust housing again using V-Band connections and the move away from internal wastegate, the downturn needed to be redesigned.

This is a very simple 76MM cast inconel downturn which will then be connected to a V-Band downpipe to mate to either the stock twin pipe exhaust system or the 76MM APR (and others) cat back system.


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*Wastegate pipe & Exhaust downpipe*

No pics of these as yet, as they will have to be made on my car, and a jig built for the production pieces to be manufactured from.

The plan is to be able to spec your kit with either an atmospheric dump pipe (to fire the wastegate gasses straight out to atmosphere) or a recirculating wastegate pipe that will route the wastegate pipe back into the downpipe to keep things a little quieter..

Guess which ill be going for? 

*Compressor Inlet Hose*

Again a little more work has been done to revise and perfect this part, mainly in terms of RHD/LHD fitment. The PCV breather has been moved to the opposite side of the pipe to make way for the brake booster on RHD cars, this now means that the kit is 100% compatible with LHD & RHD cars.


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*Exhaust heat Jacket*

To retain the temperature of the exhaust manifold collector and turbo exhaust housing APR include a super high quality custom designed heat jacket.


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*Compressor outlet hose*

The final production silicone hose is now complete, super high quality high temp silicone.


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*Oil and water lines*

All part of the kit, top quality connectors and hoses


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And thats about it for now!!!

I think you'll agree that the new kit looks absolutely stunning. The quality when its in your hands is just incredible and its a total credit to everyone involved how this has turned out!

Can't wait until next weekend when the kit will be getting installed on my car, and in the mean time, ask as many questions as you like and ill try to answer the best I can 

Cheers

Jonny


----------



## neilc

Whats the anticipated end result then Jonny and will it be ready for the 30-130 event ?


----------



## jonnyc

Im only speaking on behalf of myself here but I expect to see well over 600hp on pump fuel only.. Then add 100+ to that when using race fuel and race fuel map.

The car should definitely be ready for 30-130.. LOADS to do, but i'm pretty keen for that to be its first proper run out in anger..


----------



## neilc

So I guess that would make it the most powerful TTRS in the UK then. What will the torque curve be like though , surely a bit peakier than it is now.


----------



## jonnyc

I think it's had that crown for a long time mate  haha..

Curve will be nice, and will all depend on turbo of course, the production Stage III kit will be designed around use on a stock engine and with daily driving in mind.. There are 5 other cars out there around the world with this kit testing. Mine is the only one with a built engine, so far.. Ey Pov?


----------



## SuperRS

Haha, guess what I dream about every night now lmao


----------



## neilc

SuperRS said:


> Haha, guess what I dream about every night now lmao










:lol: :wink:


----------



## jonnyc

HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!


----------



## SuperRS

Looool you dick Neil!


----------



## neilc

SuperRS said:


> Looool you dick Neil!


Lol , sorry couldn't resist :wink:


----------



## kevtga

Looking good jonny (the turbo kit lol )


----------



## ved789

Respect !!!
Kit looks the part.


----------



## jonnyc

Hey all..

Was at APR yesterday checking out the developments. Good news that my car will be started on Friday, fully built during the weekend, some exhaust work done on Monday/Tuesday then start mapping Wednesday.. CANT WAIT!!!

While I was there I messed around a bit and took a few more pics of the kit! Just looks incredible..

Kit (kind of built up)


















And a close up of the new EGT bung with sensor installed.. Very neat and OEM










Expect that Monday ill probably not be able to resist going for a nose so safe to say ill be posting another big update on the progress of the build then!

Jc


----------



## brittan

Obviously an illusion but the air side of that turbo just looks too big to fit! Easy to see why the exhaust manifold needs a partial overcoat though; that TIP is very close.

The quality of the parts is also clear and I look forward to more pics and info of the build - and of course what the final outcome is. 8)

Where will the discharge from the external waste gate end up? Back into the downpipe or do you have a noisier intention for that?


----------



## jonnyc

Agreed, in the pic it all looks VERY close but in fact there is a ton of room.. By the looks of it, and having a quick measure up, I think a turbo up to a GTX4202R would fit, thats capable of flowing well over 1000bhp.. Another beauty of the V-Band kit, means that literally, swap turbo's, new map, and away you go.. All of the other hardware stays the same..

There is a heatshield that runs between the manifold and the TIP too..

The WG will have two options I believe.. Being dumped back into the downpipe (post the inconel down turn pictured) or to atmosphere, down onto the ground. Ill be going with mine out of the bonnet..


----------



## SuperRS

Haha can't wait to see that!


----------



## sTTranger

wow, I dont come on here much anymore, im shocked to see that your car is not yet complete 

Well each to there own and best of luck, sounds like its guna be a beast


----------



## jonnyc

Right then... Here we GO!










Loads of pics to come tomorrow


----------



## olly12

Bout bloody time too Jonny!!!
Looking forward to these remaining posts!! 
Good luck!!


----------



## jonnyc

*Update*

Hey all..

Ok, so a pretty cool day today, with lots of progress made on the car, things are coming together pretty quickly now!

The car has been worked on first of all, with the wiring all being neatened up and the routing made extra tidy (looks a mess from the factory) and most importantly the bay prepped ready for the engine install.

The car is now off the ramp and rolling which is good to see again!!










And then onto the turbo kit being mounted to the engine..

The plan is to build up the engine and gearbox as one unit with all ancillaries to install in one go into the now prepped bay of the car. This is how its looking so far today..

WG port and turbo exhaust housing..










WG bolted up..


























Nice shot of the GTX3076R










And with the cast alloy intake pipe installed










Also a couple of nice detail shots of the APR Stage III specific Oil and Water lines


















So thats the progress so far with the car build. In theory the engine should be in tomorrow all being well, and who knows, even its first fire up!!

Updates to follow as soon as I have any more news


----------



## robokn

Looking good best of luck

Sent from my iPhone using Magic


----------



## phope

8)


----------



## V6RUL

Ok I will applaud you on the speed of progress but PTFE tape is deffo not acceptable and should be changed for something that can withstand heat..heat resistant thread lock type stuff.
Steve


----------



## SuperRS

V6RUL said:


> Ok I will applaud you on the speed of progress but PTFE tape is deffo not acceptable and should be changed for something that can withstand heat..heat resistant thread lock type stuff.
> Steve


If its a water line it will be fine.


----------



## bigsyd

I know steve v6 had all his hot parts specially coated to help with heat,is this not needed m8


----------



## jonnyc

Just a few progress pics..


----------



## jonnyc

bigsyd said:


> I know steve v6 had all his hot parts specially coated to help with heat,is this not needed m8


Not to say it wouldn't help but the gains will be smaller on the cast inconel parts..

I'd like to test it down the line.. Before and after


----------



## LEO-RS

Jonny, was the turbo exit pipe redesigned or does that mate up to the stock intercooler intake position, hard to make out? Just a normal silicone pipe to mate the turbo to intercooler pipework?

What do APR do with the hardware that was on your car, i.e the old T4 flanged manifold and turbo you were running before. If that isn't going into production does it just get scrapped as part of development or are they selling this kit too?

Looking good tho, the long wait nearly over


----------



## jonnyc




----------



## brittan

It fits! 
There's a lot of hoses though; looks like a snake's wedding!


----------



## jonnyc

Another cool close-up..

The quality of the parts really has blown me away!!


----------



## jonnyc

Starting to look like a car again


----------



## jonnyc

*Update..*

Ok, so went over to APR today with my mate, for him to collect his lovely APR Stage III Supercharged R8 V8.. Impressive car for sure!!

White I was there I managed to get a few more shots of the latest progress with the car, all looks fantastic! APR have done a brilliant job putting the car back together.. Rather frustratingly STILL finding bodges from a previous experience, but im pretty confident that the car is now 100% free of its past and can move on from now!!

Nice to see the car back in one piece pretty much! 










And some of the engine installed in the car..




























The engine bay looks fantastic, a lot of wiring has been neatened up, a huge parts list was compiled of parts to replace to get everything pretty much brand new. Its going to pretty much be a brand new car again once I get it back!

A few close-up detail shots.. It fits!! 




























Almost looks like my car again!! 










So thats about it for now..

Remaining jobs are as follows..

* Car gets transported tomorrow to exhaust shop
* Dowpipe to be fabricated
* Screamer pipe to be fabricated
* Back to APR for final assembly
* First fire up
* Running in
* Final mapping

Then..

* Go and break some hearts


----------



## jonnyc

*Update..*

Hey all..

So, some more progress has been made on the build!

The car was delivered to AKS Tuning to have the Downpipe and Waste Gate pipe made up. Both parts are being fabricated by Alex @ AKS and the quality looks absolutely top draw stuff! All T316 back-purged stainless steel..

Heres a good shot of the under side of the car as it stands










Hardware parts arrived..










And a start has been made on the downpipe..



















The Wastegate pipe will be started Monday all being well.. The plan with this is to run it down to the ground, atmospheric to start with. Based on how it sounds, it'll either get routed back into the downpipe, or if I definitely love it as much as I think I will, out of the bonnet it goes!! 

Hopefully some more pics of the progress Monday, but its coming along now! Not far to go!! Wooo..

Big thanks to Alex, looks to be doing a great job!


----------



## jonnyc

*Update..*

A load of progress has been made, Alex @ AKS has now completed the work on the downpipe and wastegate pipe..

Beautiful work I think you'll agree!




























And both parts completed sat together ready for install..










------

The car is now built up with all mechanical parts pretty much. It'll be transported back to APR UK for the final button up tomorrow evening, then Friday, mapping and all being well I should be able to take it home for the weekend to stick some miles on it!

VERY excited now.. All coming together!


----------



## jonnyc

Update..

Ok, so the car is now back at APR and tonight the final build will take place. Fluids, spanner check, alignment, etc etc etc.. And then fired up for the first time too if all goes to plan! 

Some more pics from today (sent over to me earlier)

Downpipe installed, with heat jacket too, nice and tidy!!


















And the wastegate back on, with the dump tube installed..










And finally some shots from underneath


















So close now..


----------



## igotone

Awesome. I can't wait to hear how this performs. 8)


----------



## brittan

[smiley=thumbsup.gif]

But that dump tube is going in the wrong direction . . . . . :wink:


----------



## jonnyc

brittan said:


> [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
> 
> But that dump tube is going in the wrong direction . . . . . :wink:


There is method in this madness don't worry lol.. It'll be rectified VERY soon


----------



## robokn

Is it running yet?? and what does it sound like?


----------



## jonnyc

robokn said:


> Is it running yet?? and what does it sound like?


Not yet.. It'll only run on boost come Saturday so ill have to wait until then to see how the screamer sounds.. I pretty much know how it'll be though.. Something like..

RHGRHGHAAAAAAARRRHHHHHHH - fu*King - WWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRHHHH


----------



## jonnyc

She's alive  ...

Sound is INCREDIBLE .. Running in process about to start now, f*cking YES!!!!


----------



## jonnyc

*Update*

Ok so finally had a chance to get online and get a decent update of the car up!.. So here goes!

So I arrived at APR just in time to see the final parts being installed, almost ready for the first start up!


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Once everything was ready, the car was fired up for the first time.. For those who are wondering, the long cranking time before it fires is intentional, to build proper oil pressure before the engine actually fires up to avoid damage.

http://s123.beta.photobucket.com/user/j ... 0.mp4.html

Sounded pretty sweet straight away!!

We then completed two full heat cycles, allowing the car on idle to come fully up to temp, then turning off and allowing to cool fully..

So then on the third fire up, we could give it a few revs and see how it sounded! Turns out, TOTALLY different to before, the new manifold design and turbo exhaust housing really allow you to hear the turbo whistle! Sounds incredible in person, very much like the TT Lambos when driving around slowly..

http://s123.beta.photobucket.com/user/j ... a.mp4.html

Then.. It was time to put some miles on the car.. The plan was simple, 5-10 mins medium load to bed the rings in and and general check of the car, all gears felt brilliant, and the shifts are like butter now with the new Superfinished gearbox internals!!!... And then, running a low boost file in the car, give it some stick, logging to check all is ok!!..

All went great, and considering just 1.3 bar peak boost the car feels FAST.. Like, 4th gear wheel spin in the wet fast!..

I then took the car back home from APR, to stick some more miles on and complete the running in process.. Felt nice to be back in the car!!


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So, then back the next morning with a total of 160 miles on the new engine, all fluids were changed, engine oil & coolant and gearbox oil too.. Now we were ready to see what it can do!

This video is at 1.3 bar boost, around 9 degrees advance at the top end, the engine is literally just cruising here but thought it would be cool to get a video of the sound.. I would approximate around 500hp with this map..

http://s123.beta.photobucket.com/user/j ... e.mp4.html

The noise is pretty disgustingly loud haha.. But its fun I suppose!

So... Then it was time to get it clean and get a few shots!

(I posted this pic as I know it'll wind some people up) lol..


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Then... It was time to have some fun! 


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Thats about it for now.. No figures are being talked about yet, but lets just say, its properly quick..


----------



## jonnyc

*Update..*

Hey all, ok so some more pics and thoughts along with some new additions to the car!

First up, I decided to change the exhaust around a bit.. Opting for the APR RSC cat back, mated to a custom downpipe and wastegate re-route by AKS tuning, who did a great job!

So, heres the pics..

Loaded the car up with the new parts at APR UK and headed off to AKS tuning..










Parts out










Car up on the ramp










And a quick shot of the existing downpipe and screamer set up..










Scorpion off the car.. So so light!!



















APR RSC rear box..










As I didn't want it to be 'normal' I has AKS delete the middle box too..










Some awesome welding work..










So this is the new cat-back essentially..










Which left this gap..










Time to fabricate a front pipe, and change the existing downpipe to suit the 76mm system..










And the new system installed on the car





































So the exhaust was installed, and so it was time to change around the existing screamer pipe set up.. Think I must have got a bit old since I had my Golf, the sound was just insane.. So wastegate pipe was to be re-routed back into the downpipe..

Screamer off the car










Parts to be used..










Flexi with little V-Band welded










Plus the bend










So then, back onto the car to be measured up again..



















Then the final piece was fabricated, this would be welded to the downpipe..










And the finished downpipe..










Ready to be installed..










And all back on the car! Perfect fit.. Very neat!!










So that was about it!!.. Time to see how it sounds!

84578824-4457-4CD6-AFC0-8569D4C83F38-644-0000003977C7BB9A_zps29b848f9.mp4 Video by jonnnny28 | Photobucket

Overall, very very happy.. The sound is obviously very different to before, quieter all around, but the car feels and sounds great in my opinion.. And only 8kg increase too, which I was pretty surprised about!!

Next up, something that I've been wanting to try for a little while now! Solid bushings for the shift mechanism..

Parts..










Before










After










Feels really nice, and compliments the solid bushings I have in the cable ends too, the shift is even more solid now.. Pretty happy with this cheap mod!

And last up.. Time for the latest VWR intake to be installed on my car.. So a trip over to ITG for them to do the work!!

Pretty big filter housing!!










Before










After










Sounds a little louder now, but happy with it.. Nice to have the latest kit on the car, should flow a little more, and every little helps!!!!

Oh, and just for fun.. A comparison between two Stage 3 TTRS's.. One running APR RSC and the other Scorpion Titanium!

Enjoy!!

http://s123.photobucket.com/user/jonnnn ... a.mp4.html


----------



## brittan

Some neat work on that exhaust and sounds the part too!

I am though disappointed with the dump pipe - was looking forward to how the RS looked when fitted with a fire snorting chimney. 

The solid bushed for the shift mechanisms are interesting; I didn't realise there were rubber bushes in there. 
Are they commercially available or are those one-offs that mean I have to commandeer a friends lathe?

Videos of how it goes soon?


----------



## Mech33

2 weeks later, any updates?


----------



## tt3600

OMG the noise


----------



## kevtga

How's the car going jonny


----------



## jonnyc

kevtga said:


> How's the car going jonny


Little hold up with the clutch not holding now.. Waiting for Helix to pull their finger out

Otherwise, I'm staying quiet for a reason. Sick of the bullshit flying around so until something remarkable happens and I can post 5 different ways of proving everything don't expect many updates from me..


----------



## TootRS

jonnyc said:


> kevtga said:
> 
> 
> 
> How's the car going jonny
> 
> 
> 
> Little hold up with the clutch not holding now.. Waiting for Helix to pull their finger out
> 
> Otherwise, I'm staying quiet for a reason. Sick of the bullshit flying around so until something remarkable happens and I can post 5 different ways of proving everything don't expect many updates from me..
Click to expand...

Understandable, but Ciprian and Von don't come on here do they?


----------



## kevtga

jonnyc said:


> kevtga said:
> 
> 
> 
> How's the car going jonny
> 
> 
> 
> Little hold up with the clutch not holding now.. Waiting for Helix to pull their finger out
> 
> Otherwise, I'm staying quiet for a reason. Sick of the bullshit flying around so until something remarkable happens and I can post 5 different ways of proving everything don't expect many updates from me..
Click to expand...

I have been working away for a while jonny so not heard anything or any bullshit just interested as you well know it will be the next step for my car ;-)


----------



## jonnyc

Hey all, quick little update!

So, I know its been a bit of a while since I last posted, this has been mainly due to the idiot trolls that like to try and ruin the fun whilst sat at their desk..

Its nice to have this view again!!! 



We have spent the last few months perfecting many points, including the software, all of which has now come together and the car is just superb!!

I have had the car back around 5 days now and in that time stuck around 500 miles on it, all running perfectly well.. And, its pretty quick too!

A few cheeky pics..





And chillin' with his mate 



For those that are wondering, the difference is almost comical between the two! haha.. Can't beat the noise of the Merc though! 

Importantly however, the car is now running sweet with its current set up!

Heres a few quick points of info..

* APR Stage 3 Turbo Kit
* GTX3076R
* 1.95bar boost peak @ 3150rpm
* 1.78bar boost @ 7250rpm
* Pump fuel only
* 100% stock fuel system

And this is what that looks like..

(pull from 2nd gear 4500rpm to 6th gear 5750rpm)

APRTTRSStage3On-Board_zps8ab856f7.mp4 Video by jonnnny28 | Photobucket

The clutch seems to be holding just fine for now (don't ask me how)

Next step is to install a prototype APR HPFP, GTX3576R turbo and of course mapping to suit, were hoping to see another 75-100hp once these steps are taken, which will nicely bump the cars performance!!

More info once I have something!

Also, ill get a GoPro speedo video too, this thing really does fly now!

Cheers

Jc


----------



## robokn

Looked and Sounded pretty awesome last friday


----------



## jonnyc

Let me know if you're in the area again Rob and ill take you for a ride out 8)


----------



## robokn

Around Peterbourogh this week end, thanks for the offer


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## Mech33

Thanks for the update! So given the HPFP addition and the swap to a GTX3576R, I take that APR is still experimenting with the kit? Once they lock down the specs, I assume it will then be a long while of extended testing. The "July 1st" that APR UK threw out on their Facebook page seems pretty unlikely given that.


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## jaybyme

I would imagine the stage 3 kit would use the standard fuel pump as it seems like it's fine with 580 ps or so.


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## SuperRS

Turbo will be the gtx3076 as 550-600hp is the aim for stage 3.

Jonny will be running stage 4 with a gtx35 as his engines already built for it.


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## jonnyc

Little taster..

1st gear roll-on in the Stage III TTRS..

Pump fuel only, GTX3076R, 100% stock fuel system, STOCK clutch..

http://s123.photobucket.com/user/jonnnn ... 3.mp4.html

* Engine light due to 2nd lambda sensor being shit


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## Mech33

jonnyc said:


> Little taster..
> 
> 1st gear roll-on in the Stage III TTRS..
> 
> Pump fuel only, GTX3076R, 100% stock fuel system, STOCK clutch..
> 
> http://s123.photobucket.com/user/jonnnn ... 3.mp4.html
> 
> * Engine light due to 2nd lambda sensor being shit


Thanks for the post!! That looks like fun... is the above comment about the GTX3076R being the official Stage 3 turbo correct, and that your swap to the larger GTX3576R is just for more work specific to your car (or beyond stage 3)?


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## jonnyc

Final spec on the kit has not yet been decided so at this point im not sure mate.. Apparently the GTX3576R performs very well, with almost exactly the same spool yet makes huge gains further up top, lets see!


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## hugy

I'd love to see your car close up Jonny. 8) 
Is your roof painted or is it a wrap?


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## jonnyc

Roof / mirrors / door handles / splitter / rear hatch / rear spoiler are all left body colour (phantom black)


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## hugy

jonnyc said:


> Roof / mirrors / door handles / splitter / rear hatch / rear spoiler are all left body colour (phantom black)


Oh I see,
I forgot the car is originally black.
It looks great


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## [email protected]

It is a shame about the closed doors development though understandable as the thread is a little tidier and focused on the engineering aspects that nerds like me prefer/enjoy.

Will keep holding off the LOBA S3 upgrade to see what the APR S3 does when released in due course.

JC, thx for the updates and keep the education going - selfishly, that is my only interest.

Good to note the stock HPFP and clutch are holding well on pump fuel. On the clutch, am at 52k miles and also holding well, after 500 plus laps on track.

Looking forward to APR S3 release date...

WB


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## jaybyme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 9DXcRUTeJA
Wolfs Racings stage 3 APR at the Tuner GP Hockenheim .
213 km/h on the short start/finish straight is seriously quick !
Going by Sportauto magazine, the R8 V10+ hits 205 km/h
Aventador 219 km/h


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## jonnyc

Update

Hey all,

Sorry for the lack of posts recently. Got pretty bored of all the forum BS if im honest and just haven't bothered with any forum for a long while..

Anyways, here is a good little update really, bring everything back up to speed and show you all where the cars currently at!

So, since the last post I made the car has gone through some fairly significant changes..

New turbo, coated manifold and final production pieces now installed.. The turbo is a GTX3576R, makes full boost around 3600rpm and the drivability is pretty incredible considering the capabilities of the turbo!!

All of the new final production parts..



Fresh new GTX3576R



And the exhaust side, nicely Ceramic coated



Money shot!



Full Stage III installation on the engine.. Looks kinda nice! 



It was also time for a clutch.. Went with a twin plate paddle clutch from Helix. Revs like a bike now, engagement is nice, and the pedal feel is 20% heavier than stock.. When its out, its out!!!!



Engine came out to be built up, just nicer that way.. Not necessary but the idea is that the car doesn't now need to come apart again so it was a final build, make sure that everything is absolutely perfect as things have been on and off the car so many times now..

Almost there..



Engine back in the car



Installed, on the car..



So, thats the car all built back in one piece!!

Today the guys from APR are on the dyno making final calibrations, and gathering numbers also.. Should be interesting to see what it comes out with!!!

Bare in mind that this dyno plot is taken from a 100% stock engined Stage III TTRS with 104 octane.. All of my engine mods should see a nice increase!



Lastnight I took a trip over to APR to drive the car and also get a few videos.. Enjoy!!

A little tour with some revs..

http://s123.photobucket.com/user/jonnnn ... 3.mp4.html

OEM ECU Launch Control, the sound is INSANE! Adjustable RPM, and builds decent levels of boost too!!

http://s123.photobucket.com/user/jonnnn ... 5.mp4.html

Video to give you an idea of the normal drive note.. Sounds beautiful in person with my custom RSC exhaust!

http://s123.photobucket.com/user/jonnnn ... 2.mp4.html

And a little first gear pull!

http://s123.photobucket.com/user/jonnnn ... d.mp4.html

Tomorrow, were having a play at Bruntingthorpe, 2 miles of run way, plenty of video equipment and that trusty old V-Box.. Tomorrow is the day!! Woooohooooo

-----------

Oh, and finally.. I got another toy too  Cool to see them together finally..





Lots of plans for the GTR.. Follow its progress and build on Instagram and Twitter @JCR_GTR


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## mattchaps

Good to see you back Jonny.

Tomorrow should be a very good day indeed!


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## jamman

Looks pants JC :wink: :mrgreen:


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## ved789

Looking good JC .... Can't wait for the videos from tomorrow. Will def be a blast.

Sent from my Boosted iPhone


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## jonnyc

Just a really quick post guys as im off out tonight but today went really well at Bruntingthorpe.. Here are the meaty facts!!

Stage III TTRS / Manual / V-Power ONLY / Michelin SuperSport 245/40/18

0-30mph - 1.1 seconds
0-60mph - 2.8 seconds
0-100mph - 6.1 seconds
30-130mph - 8.7 seconds
62-124mph (100-200kph) - 5.8 seconds
1/4 Mile - 10.70 @ 136.0mph

All runs recorded, and verfied with GoPro footage and V-Box data.. Videos and a much more in depth post hopefully tomorrow!!

Basically.. Nice to finally prove it all! Buzing.. Amazing job by everyone at APR.. And of course, myself.. For driving it haha

Thanks!! Enjoy..


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## jonnyc

Hey all..

Ok, so some videos as promised!!

First of all.. This is vs my Stage1 Gen2 GTR (600hp)

This was 60 - 190mph in the TTRS!

http://s123.photobucket.com/user/jonnnn ... b.mp4.html

0-155mph run

http://s123.photobucket.com/user/jonnnn ... 8.mp4.html

60-170mph run

http://s123.photobucket.com/user/jonnnn ... 7.mp4.html

Enjoy!!


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## powerplay

This has been a long time coming together, but come together it has!! Incredible results, guessing it meets - if not exceeds - all expectation


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## caney

powerplay said:


> This has been a long time coming together, but come together it has!! Incredible results, guessing it meets - if not exceeds - all expectation


Get a 500 bhp capable turbo fitted to yours and you wont be too far behind :wink:


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## igotone

That 0-150 run is damned impressive! Just curious as to whether you think you'd be quicker with an s-tronic box? Whilst the gear changes in the vid are pretty rapid - don't you get max power before the red line?


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## jimojameso

Awesom car jonny. Loved the videos. Saw apr linked them from you on facebook


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## jaybyme

igotone said:


> That 0-150 run is damned impressive! Just curious as to whether you think you'd be quicker with an s-tronic box? Whilst the gear changes in the vid are pretty rapid - don't you get max power before the red line?


Not sure if JC will agree as he changes gear like a machine anyway,but if the software is setup right, the stronic should be quicker ?
The difficulty is getting the stronic software matched to the power of the engine.
More will be revealed soon


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## TondyRSuzuka

Jonnys waiting game is over, whilst Jay's begins!

........ :roll:


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## Joerek

Waiting for some vbox times of your stronic car Jaybyme  And really curious how it drives differently in ordinary driving, also at low revs / driving in D.


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## jaybyme

Don't get me wrong,JC's car will always have more power,and with him at the wheel,very quick,but an off the shelf stage III stronic should be quicker than a more powerful stage III+ manual.According to Keith, my car was quicker last night running full power,but there are problems that have to be sorted . Once the software is finished,and matched to the stronic it will be interesting to see what times the car can do
I would like to see anyone match JC's times in a manual ?


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## jaybyme

Joerek said:


> Waiting for some vbox times of your stronic car Jaybyme  And really curious how it drives differently in ordinary driving, also at low revs / driving in D.


After driving the car for a few miles,I knew straight away that it wouldn't like being in 7th gear at below 2000 rpm.
The question is whether the oem software will adapt ?
I put the car in D and drove slowly and it changed into 7th as normal at 70 km/h,the engine had no power if you accelerated,and it kicked down to 4th.
Later in the day I accelerated slowly and it changed up to 7th at 100 km/h,so maybe it does react to torque levels.
Not sure but we will test over a few months,and decide what's best


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## suffeks

just program the dsg never to drop below ~2250rpm... sounds easy enough?


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## powerplay

Don't like the sound of the loss of low down power personally.

I'm sure with revs over 3k the huge power and torque increase is great and racing on a track compared to stock or StageI/II would be amazing, but when the car is also your daily runner I personally wouldn't want to lose the driveability and instant shove you normally have at lower revs.

Sure you can compensate by using lower gears and keeping the revs higher, I guess that's the price you have to pay with a bigger turbo - probably nowhere near as fuel efficient tho when just commuting around town!


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## jaybyme

you can poodle along below 2000 rpm with the Stage III stronic,but it will automatically kick down if you try to accelerate.
The standard car would hold a high gear unless you wanted to accelerate fast
Early days yet though.APR are still perfecting the map
I'll do fuel economy runs etc once we have the car finished,as it is my daily driver


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## SuperRS

I'd imagine fuel economy would improve by quite a margin especially on manual cars as at motorway cruising speed you are off boost whilst OEM turbo at 80mph in a manual was always on boost rev range.

DanGB's big turbo 2.0tfsi would give 43mpg on a motorway cruise whilst my stick turbo 2.0tfsi running behind him would return 34mpg for example.


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## jaybyme

true,even at 100 mph,the stage III stronic won't be on boost


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## LEO-RS

Jay, I'm not sure how you were taught to drive but for me, if I want to go quickly, I'm flat out mate, full down on the pedal and in as low a gear as possible.

I do not understand all this on off boost stuff that you're talking about. For part throttle applications you're just cruising, not going flat out. S tronic will always kick down into lower gear. Talk of sub 3000 performance is crazy, who drives a car in this range? For sure, it's not going to have the pick up of a standard car below 3000 but that's surely irrelevant if going flat out as you're constantly in the 5000+ regions.

You European drivers are a strange bunch :lol:

In the words of the great Colin McRae, if in doubt, go flat out, talk of fuel economy and 7th gear 1500rpm lol, thought for a minute we were discussing 500hp+ performance cars here not 100mpg turbo diesels. I think you should give your car to me, ill drive it how it should be driven :wink:


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## jaybyme

Mitchy,
I don't want to go quickly all the time,if I'm doing 400 miles on the Autobahn,the car also has to cruise in a high gear.
It's still an everyday road car,so it should be able to drive without problems in D mode.
Also it wouldn't make sense to fit a kit to the stronic,and then have to tell owners that you can't use D mode below 60-70 mph ? 
If it's programmed to stay in gear until above 2000 rpm or so,then it will drive pretty much like the standard car,but just stay in lower gears longer.
Don't forget 2000 rpm in 7th is 70 mph and the standard car will change into 7th at under 50 mph,which is absolutely pointless with the stage III,and possibly dangerous.
Once I've lived with the car for a couple of months,we can workout what I want and sort out the software.
To be honest, I'm just wondering how you drive,are you constantly flat out,and never use 4th,5th,6th,7th ?
Even you must get stuck in never ending traffic going at 60 mph,or do you leave it in 3rd for 50 miles or so ?


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## SuperRS

I think what Mitchy is saying is that if he's cruising at 2000rpm in 7th gear, and he decides he needs to increase his speed, he's going to go down a few gears to do so rather than attempt a WOT from a low rpm in a high gear.


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## jaybyme

yes agreed,but just to accelerate from 50-70 mph,or 70-90 mph in normal traffic,you would just accelerate,not change down.
From my limited time with the car,even with slow acceleration from 50 mph the car would have a delayed kickdown,as it wouldn't have the torque needed.
It's all speculation at the moment,there's some weird oem software in this ECU,so it could be that D mode just adapts and the car can be driven as normal.
Well not normal,as it's like a bloody rocket when it takes off.


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## SuperRS

I personally always change down in those scenarios, maybe a gear or two at most if its just gradual acceleration I was after. I don't like to labour the engine


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## Adam M

Are you JCR who just registered on the GTR forum?


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## SuperRS

Lol


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## jaybyme

Well the finished product.

Picked the car up last night,everything seems to be working well now.
Car drives perfectly well from 2000 rpm,and like a rocket from 3000 rpm.
Best get back to Germany asap before I lose my license in the UK :lol: 
No idea of power figures as the dyno was fully booked till Tuesday.


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## jamman

Looks great but you telling me they didn't have time to take it on the rollers that's plain strange.

Enjoy the drive.


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## jaybyme

The car was running with new software late Thursday night,so if a space was free on the dyno yesterday morning,then APR would have tested it.
Sadly the first available slot is Tuesday,and as I want to get back to Germany,there's no chance of putting it on the same dyno as JC's


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## powerplay

Great to see!  Was it a load up-n-go or did they have to do any work with the ECU mapping? How's the S-tronic handling the different power/torque curve and shifting under load at varying rpm?


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## suffeks

i'm curious about your vmax on zzzz autobahn, so far the most i hit was 308kph on stg1, i hope you can break 322 or 200mph


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## jaybyme

The stronic was a lot more complicated to do than the manual,so different software had to be made for the dsg.
Going by the few miles I've done so far,everything seems good.Gear changes have been modified to suit the power delivery,I think launch has been raised to 4000 rpm,and 7th is available in S mode.
I'll drive the car for a few weeks,then we can see if any improvements are needed
The car has actually already done a 1000 miles on stage III,and I'll be doing another 500 tomorrow.
Stage III will get it's first taste of 102 octane tomorrow afternoon  
Might wait till I've put a new set of tyres on the car before I try a top speed run,but who knows 300 km/h will come up very quickly now-


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## jonnyc

*Update*

First of all here is the post that APR released after the Bruntingthorpe event.. (some cool pics and good info in there)

-----------

APR Stage III - Continued testing, Acceleration Data, Dynos and Videos!

Last week APR's Calibration Engineers Visited the UK for final verification of our production Stage III Turbocharger System on standard European fuel grades, S-Tronic compatibility testing as well as further testing on modified engines. The results proved successful and we ended the weekend on a high note with acceleration testing and races at the famous Bruntingthorpe Airfield.










Several magazines were present during the event and covered 4 of our customer's vehicles. 3 of the vehicles are 6MTs running various clutch setups, including the Sachs clutch solution we offer on our site in Wolf Power's vehicle (our Swiss importer). The final vehicle was an S-Tronic from Germany with an unmodified gear box. All vehicles were on pump fuel.










Each vehicle was at various levels of modification. Wolf Power's vehicle is very similar to own as far as engine components are concerned. The engine is unmodified other than our recommended and required hardware and is running on the stock bottom end and stock head. Our intercooler was not available when the vehicle was built so they are running an alternative setup. This is the same full interior "street class" vehicle that competed and won at the Tuner GP at Hockenheim this past summer.










Jonny Cocker's TT RS is fully built from top to bottom with many custom components. He has many build threads throughout the internet detailing many of the modifications he's made, some of which are still on the car today, while others were removed. The engine's internals are strengthened and the head was built to Race Developments UK's specifications. All major components required or recommended by APR are utilized on his vehicle, with the exception of the clutch, a Modified APR exhaust, and different intercooler as our unit was not available when the vehicle was built.

Initially Jonny's engine modifications did not show a positive improvement running our standard APR Stage III Turbocharger System software. As we've seen with other vehicles and platforms, head porting typically does not show an improvement, and may even show a loss without specific tuning, even after which it may still result in a loss over stock. APR's calibration engineers spent time on his vehicle and were able to increase ignition advance enough so to create a very positive increase in power, later dyno confirmed after the acceleration tests.

Jonny's positive results have further advanced our own APR TT RS in house cylinder head porting program. With the proof of concept successful, we've begun the initial stages of developing a setup similar to what we offer on other platforms. For those unfamiliar, please visit our Cylinder Head Porting Product Page.










Installing an APR badge is serious stuff!

On the S-Tronic front we're still deep into development. The car's very fast on the street, makes excellent peak power, but is currently neutered in the low to midrange with torque clipped. Development will continue on this platform and when complete, we'll have support for the S-Tronic models at full power output.

The final vehicle at the event was running a preproduction APR Stage III Turbocharger system running our development internally gated T3, GTX3071R turbo.

*Now for the fun stuff!*

The vehicles preformed great and both Jonny's and Wolf Power's cars were able to beat our own 30-130 and other acceleration testing. Using our newly developed Launch Control, Jonny was able to shift his way into some serious performance figures. Here's a run down how his car preformed:

0-30 MPH: 1.1 sec
0-60 MPH: 2.8 sec
0-100 MPH: 6.1 sec
60-120 MPH: 5.2 sec
62-124 MPH: 5.7 sec
100-200 KPH: 5.8 sec
60-130 MPH: 6.82 sec
30-130 MPH: 8.75 sec
10.7 @ 136 MPH ¼ mile (p-box only, not a certified track).

For those unfamiliar with Jonny Cocker, he's a professional driver for Drayson Racing. Jonny's capable of shifting faster than anyone I've seen before and you can clearly see this in the chart below given the lack of any real step between shift (which appears on all other test vehicles). To get a better idea of what "Fast" is, take a look at his youtube videos:

The first video is a poorly filmed race between his own Nissan GTR with ECU Remap and exhaust modifications.






Both vehicles were on straight pump fuel and no other fuel helpers. Jonny runs 245 Michelin PSS's on his TT RS. He estimates weight savings at 88 KG (Just shy of 200 lbs), through exhaust, intake, wheels, brakes, suspension and seat modifications, but he's never officially weighed the car to find the differences with the APR kit, intercooler, and other changes in place. The estimated vehicle "diet" was negated by carrying a passenger in the car for all video and acceleration tests based on everyone's best estimates.

*For your further viewing pleasure, here are three more videos:*

Jonny Cocker's TT RS - Launch Control - 0-155 MPH.

Jonny Cocker's TT RS - PVW Teaser Video

Jonny Cocker's TT RS - 60-170 MPH

Jonny drove Wolf Power's TT RS collecting acceleration data. However, for this vehicle Jonny did not flat shift, as it was not his own vehicle. As you can see in the data below, the shift times suffered greatly, but were still better than our own results produced in the Hot and Humid Alabama Summery south!

60-120 MPH: 6.7 sec
62-124 MPH: 7.2 sec
100-200 KPH: 7.2 sec
60-130 MPH: 8.70 sec
30-130 MPH: 10.6 sec

This graph displays 30-130 Acceleration times from Jonny's car, Wolf Power's car, and our own published advertising data for both 93 and 100 octane. Notice, Jonny's time dips at the beginning, which was because this run was generated during a lunch, but still proved to be his fastest result of the day.










Jonny's vehicle's power was later confirmed on a dynapack dyno, with SAE correction, to be producing ~580 WHP (front wheel only) and ~560 AWHP with the front and rear wheels both connected.

Here are the raw dyno graphs with all runs.

*Front Wheel Drive Mode*










*All Wheel Drive Mode*










Jonny is scheduled to hit Santa Pod Raceway this weekend to collect more personal data on his vehicle. If the event goes well, we'll update everyone with the results!

Thank you everyone. If you have any questions, please ask and I'll do my best to answer or source more data should I not have an answer.

Thank you and Enjoy!

-----------

Since then i've had some fantastic feedback and also kept highly amused by the comments about my car apparently being an S-Tronic! The GTR not trying, and all of the other interesting conspiracy theories!! Suppose ill take that as a compliment 

Just for fun APR did an overlay of the other Stage III S-Tronic car VS. My own Manual in a 3-4 shift! These are the results..



Also, managed to get the V-Box 30-130 run from my car only.. Pretty quick but more to come!!



Moving on.. A few of you may have known by following my other threads here and there plus my instagram @cocker_jonny you will have seen that I made it over to Santa Pod at the weekend for the cars first drag event since the latest parts were installed..

Spec was identical to the Bruntingthorpe day.. So, Pump fuel / Michelin Pilot SuperSports / Full weight other than front seats and other noted parts and the good old APR Stage III kit!!

Here's a walk around of the car on the day while we wait in the que..

http://s123.photobucket.com/user/jonnnn ... a.mp4.html

The day was pretty poor.. First run was at 4PM!!! And after that the track was so slick it was untrue.. Still, we managed to get 4 runs in which looked like this..



As you can see the first 3 runs the 60' time is pretty horrible..

Still managing the best of the day and the first ever TTRS in the 10's in the 1/4 mile with a ... *10.94 @ 131.68 MPH* :rock:

And the video of that particular run!

http://s123.photobucket.com/user/jonnnn ... 1.mp4.html

I was then tipped off to try the right lane as apparently it had been prepped a little more after my 3rd run. And ended up cutting a 'reasonable' 60' in the 1.6 range, unfortunately I went on to miss 3rd gear blowing any chance of a decent time and that was the day over..

Studying the times im pretty confident of a 10.5/6 1/4 mile time in the car with zero changes.. Remember, this is still pump fuel ONLY. No meth, no tricks, all at a proper FIA sanctioned Drag Strip.

Im planning to return to Santa Pod on Friday this week for another go! The car will be exactly the same but this time the track will hopefully be a lot better as its a more exclusive day. With better prep!

A 1.5X 60' should see a comfortable 10.5X 1/4 mile time, thats the aim anyways!!

After that, who knows!! 

Ill update on Friday once the results are in


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## jaybyme

lets hope for good weather Jonny.
It's been raining all week in Germany,which has spoilt my fun on the Autobahns.,better weather forecasted,so fingers crossed


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## jonnyc

Unfortunately snapped prop bolts put an end to proceedings at Pod yesterday.. Shame!!

The OEM prop is a weak point even on stock cars during heavy launches. My car is 4 years old now and I've launched it 2-300 times, maybe more!! Amazed it lasted so long really haha..



















Car is being fixed today and I'll be back out at pod ASAP!!


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## jaybyme

Quick video of my Stage III Stronic





Please remember this is not an out an out attempt at a fast time,this is on the drive home with the car loaded and sadly slightly up hill due to traffic.


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## Joerek

Great, seems like 100-200 is about 6 seconds, which is fast 

Does it feels significantly faster compared to stage2? Or marginally?


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## jaybyme

no,it feels much faster than a stage II,as it goes into warp drive after 3000 rpm  
I would say it's a bigger jump than standard to stage II


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## jonnyc

Stage 3 feels a HUGE amount faster than Stage 2 .. My car is making 230hp more than a Stage 2 car, that's enough to notice lol


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## jaybyme

did you get a nice set of new bolts JC ?
wondering if I should try to get some before something snaps ?


----------



## jonnyc

I have some on the way.. Until then I'm not launching again.. Probably be fine but not worth the risk.. I'd say yes, it can't hurt having the stronger hardware in there!!


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## jaybyme

I see RS Worx have a nice set online, where you getting yours ?


----------



## Audi TT RS PLUS

Where do you buy these stronger prop bolts? Jonny, how much do you know about APR LC, is that just with Stage 3 or can they put LC also for example to Stage 2? :roll:
You have a very fast TT! :wink:


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## suffeks

bump

this thread reminds me of the days when we were young and beautiful 

whats happening everybody!? i miss my mk2 ttrs [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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