# DOUBT : FRONT WHEEL DRIVE OR QUATTRO? HELP



## Foiel (May 8, 2002)

Hi folks ...

i need a as many opinions as possible ... i know that the TT's " quattro system " is not permanent therefore my question is ... " i'm guessing that on a dry road with good stability i can't even feel the difference between my old ( yeah.. if you didn't know.. well.. take a look at the topic called " an old roof has ... etc etc.. ) 180 front wheel and a quattro ? how does " quattro " distributes the power normally ? is it worth it ? can you tell the difference compared to a front wheel drive ? does the haldex system give problems ?

PLEASE HELP ME IN THIS HARD DECISION ..

I ALREADY KNOW YOU'LL BE WONDERFUL AS USUAL .. THANKS IN ADVANCE FROM The only one iTTalian member on this forum 8)


----------



## Wak (May 6, 2002)

You had my opinion, you must drive one, when you floor off the lights, a quattro will pull...its much easier to get the esp to kick in on a FWD and the way esp kicks in is relatively harsh.


----------



## Foiel (May 8, 2002)

Thanks again Wak !  

when is raining can you feel that's a quattro or it just handles like a fron wheel drive ? i don't understand how the haldex works ... it just kicks in when the front wheels have no contact right ?? from my experience with my " old " TT there aren't so many moments that front wheels slip .. unless you always drive like Michael Schumacher.. my point is : can you really feel is a " quattro " or the haldex thing , since is not permanent , it's just a crappy marketing useless stuff ? or it might be the best traction system .. ?

sorry but i want to evaluate very well .. i'm pretty ignorant about traction system ...

thanks ! grazie !


----------



## scottm (May 7, 2002)

My opinion, and answering all your questions in no particular order...

You can definitely feel the 4WD 'dig in' when pulling away sharply, very little wheelspin when pulling away in the Traffic Light Grand Prix ;D So yes it does definitely do something.

Downside though is that it can 'bog down' very easily at low revs, you have to remember to keep the revs high and slip the clutch a bit to make the most of the traction. I think the V6 TT, with stronger low-rev torque, might fare better in this respect?

It's also very useful when pulling out of side roads... my previous car was a FWD Golf GTI. The front inner wheel used to spin ridiculously when trying to pull out sharply into traffic. The TT doesn't suffer so much from that, although I can't say how much of that is the 4WD and how much is just a better overall chassis set up!

But you are correct that once on the move, on a dry road, you won't notice the difference, the TT Quattro will be just like a FWD car. But that's the whole point... you get the fuel benefits of a 2-wheel drive car when you don't need 4WD, with the 4WD cutting in when required.

As for how the TT's quattro system works. It uses a Haldex clutch, which connects the back wheels to the front. Its operation is entirely automatic (ie controlled by the car, not you). It is normally disengaged, with no power going to the back wheels. When the front wheels slip, up to 50% of the power is transferred to the rear wheels (so note the TT can never be entirely rear-wheel drive). This is supposed to happen quickly but smoothly. (also note the Haldex 'quattro' system on the TT is the same as the system on the A3 but very different from the 4WD systems on the A4, A6 and A8).

Some people claim they can feel it cutting in, personally I can't tell the exact moment it starts doing its thing, but then maybe I just don't know what to look/listen/feel for. But I think it is useful, and not just a useless marketing thing.

I seem to recall a few isolated issues with early Haldex systems, but generally it seems to be very reliable, from what I've heard. Make sure you have the oil and filter changes done on time (oil every 20000 miles, filter every 40000).


----------



## scottm (May 7, 2002)

Sigh, the "A8)" in my previous post was supposed to say "A8 )" - but yabb thought it was a smiley...


----------



## Wak (May 6, 2002)

I cant describe it, a track day really makes your appreciate how sure footed it is, only way to really get to know your car.

I drove a fwd and quattro back to back (sorry Sundeep) and would definitely not want to go back to fwd after a TTQ, its not maketing gimmick it really makes a huge difference.

http://www.haldextraction.com/

plus a bit of video on this page is the closest to getting some experience without driving it.
http://www.wak-tt.com/ccombe2003/ccombe2003.htm


----------



## MichaelJP (Aug 13, 2003)

I'd get the quattro.

Had a really enjoyable blast over the Snake Pass Sheffield->Glossop yesterday in the pouring rain - lots of standing water on the road and streams running across.

4WD gives you that secure feel that is difficult to quantify. You need to try it in poor conditions.

I was also grateful for the handling balance of the TT in the wet. Journalists always rave about oversteer but when you're cornering on a wet road with lorries coming the other way you can't afford even a couple of inches inaccuracy of line.

- Michael


----------



## SaulTTR (Apr 30, 2003)

Quattro definately, it feels so sure footed even in the rain,you get a hell of a lot traction wet/dry makes me feel very safe, especially in those instances when you pull out of a junction and don't realise how quick the car behind you is going you can just squeeze the loud pedal and be confident you're not just going to sit there. ;D


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

In the right hands a quattro is no quicker than identical FWD at the track, although the ham-fisted may be quicker in quattro.

Various tests (I had one on A4s with and with out Quattro, but can't find it) have demonstrated that quattro generates no more lateral cornering G than fwd (I know Torsen is slightly different).

Where quattro really pays dividends in traction on poor road surfaces and in slippery conditions, where it's advantages and secure-feeling offset the weight disadvantages compared to fwd.

I agree with al the other comments and would choose the quattro option personally having run a number of Audis both fwd and Q.

There is also the Audi thing. Quattro is part of the brand association for it's performance cars.

As you say, smooth drivers on dry roads may not notice the difference unless low speed uphill hairpins feature their your routes.


----------



## ttimp (Jul 9, 2003)

Be nice if there was a light that came on when the Haldex / Q kicked in.


----------



## HumphreyF (Nov 7, 2003)

> It's also very useful when pulling out of side roads... my previous car was a FWD Golf GTI. Â The front inner wheel used to spin ridiculously when trying to pull out sharply into traffic. Â The TT doesn't suffer so much from that, although I can't say how much of that is the 4WD and how much is just a better overall chassis set up!


Its the same chassis as a Golf.


----------



## HumphreyF (Nov 7, 2003)

> Be nice if there was a light that came on when the Haldex / Q kicked in.


Why?


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> Its the same chassis as a Golf.


Different suspension mountings, track, tyres and geometry though.


----------



## scottm (May 7, 2002)

>> it's the same chassis as a Golf

Yes, they are the same size and have some common parts, shared also with the (old) A3 and Skoda Octavia. However, each model has many unique parts; springs/dampers differ, the aerodynamics and weight distribution of the body will affect it, and so on.

>> why [have a light]

Because it would be interesting for petrolheads to look at and know what their car is doing  There is an ESP / traction control light, so why not a 4WD light too?


----------



## HumphreyF (Nov 7, 2003)

> Because it would be interesting for petrolheads to look at and know what their car is doing  Â There is an ESP / traction control light, so why not a 4WD light too?


Yes I've always found those lights fascinating too. At the point your car has the least traction - the dash encourages you to look away from the road. Inspiring use of technology.

Perhaps the dash should have a series of lights that also come on when passing schools and during overtaking to let us know what our cars are doing :-/


----------



## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

I suppose you could have a torque gauge like the Skylines have showing how much torque is going to the rear, but have to concur with Sebastian that at the times when its happening, you'll probably want to be concentrating Â  - entertainment for passengers and children i suppose Â


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

I agree with seb, you should not need lights and gauges to let you know what the car is doing. They are just a distraction from the road ahead and the world outside.

What's wrong with the seat of your pants?


----------



## ttimp (Jul 9, 2003)

> Why?


Just so's you know something was happening!
I can feel it when the stupid ESP kicks in and the light is a nice confirmation. Would like to see a similar thing when the Haldex is actually earning it's money.


----------



## ttimp (Jul 9, 2003)

> What's wrong with the seat of your pants?


Getting a bit shiny, sorry.


----------



## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

> Its the same chassis as a Golf.


It's not. It's based upon the same design but IIRC it only shares 30% of the same components.


----------



## WeegieTT (Nov 1, 2002)

> It's not. It's based upon the same design but IIRC it only shares 30% of the same components.


I've often wondered about this when people quote the "same as a golf" thing. Surely for cars nowadays there's no traditional chassis, and the thing that decides the stiffness of a car is the body as much as the floorpan. If the suspension geometry and susp. components are also different, then what is common that would affect the driving performance?


----------



## SBJ (Jun 29, 2002)

As a FWD owner I'd like to defend it... briefly 


> In the right hands a quattro is no quicker than identical FWD at the track, although the ham-fisted may be quicker in quattro.


Last year at Oulton Park, in the wet, I was passing some of the Quattro boys 8), but for everyday use on these uneven British roads, FWD is sometimes hard work with 180bhp even with traction control as the fronts tend to spin a bit.

Quattro is good in the wet, but no real advantage in the dry, and a 180bhp FWD is a lot lighter than a Quattro ;D 
All my opinion of course.

SBJ


----------



## Foiel (May 8, 2002)

TT is a wonderful car with wonderful owners 

Thank you so much folks for your extremely usefull opinions .. everything already printed out !

thanks again ! grazie ancora !


----------



## Foiel (May 8, 2002)

hi folks.. i don't understand one thing .. when the quattro system kicks in is there a light on the dashpod or not ? quattro system comes on when a tyre slips ... so i guess i'll see the ESP/ASR light on .. right ? ??? ???

it's kind of a mistery how it works to me.. it seems that comes on too late because it waits a tyre slipping and you can already be out of the road in a pond ! ???

the haldex web site is not very clear about how it works  :-/ :'(


----------



## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

There is no indication on the dash of Haldex activity. You have to use the seat of your pants to detect it.

The ESP comes into play (and lights the dash icon) when it thinks that the steering wheel and pedal inputs do not match the actual wheel rotations and cars cornering (it has a Yaw sensor).

Some people believe ESP lets you push the car harder but from my experience and from the idea and design behind it, it simply manages the more acute changes in direction etc.

i.e. If your smooth and sideways it lets you off. If you are ragged it comes into play.


----------

