# Drink driving thread



## L8_0RGY

NaughTTy said:


> Errm - dare we ask why you won't be able to drive it (or have a I missed something recently)? :?


No you haven't! I debated about whether to post something about this or not and decided not to as I'm severely p'd off with myself over this incident.

Basically I went out on Friday night and at 00:05am I got pulled over by the Pigs who arrested me under suspicion of drink driving.

I had gone out 1 mile from where my flat is yet I stupidly decided to drive there.

I was breathalysed back at the station and had a reading of 61. The limit is 35.

They kindly kept me in a cell for 5 hours until 05:15am and booked a court date for yesterday - the only Valentines present I received - and I have been banned for 18 months which can be reduced to 14 months if I take a 'rehabilitation' course plus Â£400 fine + costs.

Therefore it's not worth keeping the car for 14 months as it is not only going to depreciate but the insurance will be sky high as well when I can start driving again in April 2007.

Like I said, a stupid judgement on my part and I have had to pay a severe price for it.


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## ctgilles

Wow  Really laying down the law there :? Still a bit over the top considering circumstances 

Beautiful car btw, worth every penny!


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## jampott

L8_0RGY said:


> NaughTTy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Errm - dare we ask why you won't be able to drive it (or have a I missed something recently)? :?
> 
> 
> 
> No you haven't! I debated about whether to post something about this or not and decided not to as I'm severely p'd off with myself over this incident.
> 
> Basically I went out on Friday night and at 00:05am I got pulled over by the Pigs who arrested me under suspicion of drink driving.
> 
> I had gone out 1 mile from where my flat is yet I stupidly decided to drive there.
> 
> I was breathalysed back at the station and had a reading of 61. The limit is 35.
> 
> They kindly kept me in a cell for 5 hours until 05:15am and booked a court date for yesterday - the only Valentines present I received - and I have been banned for 18 months which can be reduced to 14 months if I take a 'rehabilitation' course plus Â£400 fine + costs.
> 
> Therefore it's not worth keeping the car for 14 months as it is not only going to depreciate but the insurance will be sky high as well when I can start driving again in April 2007.
> 
> Like I said, a stupid judgement on my part and I have had to pay a severe price for it.
Click to expand...

A foolish act, but hats off for admitting in public. I'm sure there are many of us who have placed themselves in similarly stupid situations, but have had the "benefit" of not being caught, so there would be a certain amount of hypocrisy to "judge" you...

I hope you'll continue to hang around. It may help speed those 14 months away quicker.

Despite the error of judgement, I feel for you fella... :?


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## mighTy Tee

jampott said:


> A foolish act, but hats off for admitting in public. I'm sure there are many of us who have placed themselves in similarly stupid situations, but have had the "benefit" of not being caught, so there would be a certain amount of hypocrisy to "judge" you...
> 
> I hope you'll continue to hang around. It may help speed those 14 months away quicker.
> 
> Despite the error of judgement, I feel for you fella... :?


Nicely said Tim, also feel for you.


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## L8_0RGY

Thanks guys, like my father said - after 11pm the majority of drivers have probably got a drink or two inside of them, its just down to who the Pigs stop that evening.

Of course I'll stick around, you don't get rid of me that easily.

Now will someone buy my damn car otherwise it could so easily tempt me back into it and it is one temptation I don't need :x .


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## saint

The few pints then a drive is a silly move - what always worries me is the morning/afternoon after the night before.


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## NaughTTy

mighTy Tee said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> A foolish act, but hats off for admitting in public. I'm sure there are many of us who have placed themselves in similarly stupid situations, but have had the "benefit" of not being caught, so there would be a certain amount of hypocrisy to "judge" you...
> 
> I hope you'll continue to hang around. It may help speed those 14 months away quicker.
> 
> Despite the error of judgement, I feel for you fella... :?
> 
> 
> 
> Nicely said Tim, also feel for you.
Click to expand...

Agreed - very well put Tim.

L8 - Sorry to have bought up the subject mate - I thought it would be something like that :? Maybe a MkII when you're back on the road?


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## L8_0RGY

NaughTTy said:


> mighTy Tee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> A foolish act, but hats off for admitting in public. I'm sure there are many of us who have placed themselves in similarly stupid situations, but have had the "benefit" of not being caught, so there would be a certain amount of hypocrisy to "judge" you...
> 
> I hope you'll continue to hang around. It may help speed those 14 months away quicker.
> 
> Despite the error of judgement, I feel for you fella... :?
> 
> 
> 
> Nicely said Tim, also feel for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed - very well put Tim.
> 
> L8 - Sorry to have bought up the subject mate - I thought it would be something like that :? Maybe a MkII when you're back on the road?
Click to expand...

No probs, who knows what I'll get in 14 months time, I need sell this car first and then see what the insurance is going to be like on any car before I think of purchasing it.

I was thinking of getting a Mazza after the TT - I think I can put those thoughts on the back burner for a good few years now.


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## pas_55

Sorry for you mate! Hope the time flies!!


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## Dotti

Rupert you silly silly boy  . Bet you could kick yourself. My thoughts are with you even though it was a foolish act you comitted.


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## ronin

Hope things workout, given your line of work are you still going to be able to do your job?


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## L8_0RGY

ronin said:


> Hope things workout, given your line of work are you still going to be able to do your job?


It's proving to be rather hard and this is only the first full day of the ban!! :lol:

There are so many things I need to do that involve using a car and without it there are lots of aspects to my job that I can't fulfil, it's lucky I still have my job as the next 14 months are going to be extremely hard. This was all explained to the Judge but they took no notice at all.

I would approach a dealer but it's rather embarassing given whats happened. I went to Maranello's in Egham in December as there was a Massa there I liked and at that time the TT was only a week old and had 50 miles on it, if they had done a part ex I could've paid the balance in cash but instead they (deliberately) offered a ridiculous part ex price of Â£21,000 and asked me to "think about it". I think they thought I was a timewaster as they didn't even bother looking at the TT.

I guess in the next couple of weeks I will explore other avenues with regards to the sale as it's such a high spec that I would've thought it would shift easily.

Thanks for the concern everyone!


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## Kell

L8_0RGY said:


> DXN said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best you can do is approach the dealer and see if they will have it back. You will take a hit on it but not as much as selling privately.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds intriguing.
> 
> How is that?? The dealer has to make a profit on it where as an individual is an end user. If this is the case I'll do it but I can't imagine I'd get more from them.
Click to expand...

It's worth investigating, if only for the peace of mind that you won't get shafted (in terms of bounced bankers' drafts).

I do feel for you, but hopefully you will have learned your lesson from this about drink driving.

Sorry for the thread hijack too - you might want to post a 'clean' thread and start again.


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## W7 PMC

I tried to resist, but couldn't so i'm drawn to drop in my 2 pence worth.

I unlike others on here don't feel the slightest bit for you. It's a fcuking stupid & selfish thing you did & i for one think 18 Months is not long enough. You will no doubt learn your lesson from this & thank god the only person to suffer is the culprit & you didn't injure of kill some poor individual. The only slight caveat is your honesty which i'm sure goes some way to show your remourse.

As for being singled out, i don't have massive respect for the police these days, but they have to have reasonable grounds to pull you over no matter what time of the day or night, so you being twice the legal limit i guess your driving must have interested them in some way, even though you probably thought you were driving perfectly. If you only had less than 1 mile to travel, for god sake man either walk or get a cab.

The reasoning behind me being drawn to post is that i was very nearly killed by a drunk driver when i was 15 & that to$$er decided to drive off without a care in the world, so i have zero tolerance for drink driving full stop. He was alot more than twice the legal limit, but drink driving is drink driving, whether it's twice the limit or 5 times the limit. He got banned for 18 months & fined Â£250 & i faced him in court when he was sentenced (not a day i'll forget in a hurry) He should have been tried for attempted murder as far as i'm concerned.

This is not a personal attack as i'd say the same thing to my best friend or a family member if they did the same, although i'd probably slap them sufficiently as well.


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## L8_0RGY

Kell said:


> L8_0RGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DXN said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best you can do is approach the dealer and see if they will have it back. You will take a hit on it but not as much as selling privately.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds intriguing.
> 
> How is that?? The dealer has to make a profit on it where as an individual is an end user. If this is the case I'll do it but I can't imagine I'd get more from them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's worth investigating, if only for the peace of mind that you won't get shafted (in terms of bounced bankers' drafts).
> 
> I do feel for you, but hopefully you will have learned your lesson from this about drink driving.
> 
> Sorry for the thread hijack too - you might want to post a 'clean' thread and start again.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the PM Kell, my thoughts exactly on all three points you've raised here.

Could one of the mods please seperate all of the messages and post them in Off Topic.


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## nutts

Obviously, you can edit your first post and change the title... :roll:


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## genocidalduck

L8 orgy i thought i would put my 2p worth in aswell....But this is a strange one. Due to my job i pick up alot of people that have to use cabs as there main form off transport after being banned for drink driving. The worrying thing is none of them show any remorse and not even embarressed about admitting it. Actually makes me abit mad. They know they have made a mistake which luckily wasnt a costly one in respect to people losing there lives. So hats off to you for realising you was wrong and holding your hands up to it and from what i know of you from your posts you are a decent bloke. However! This is the reason why there are cabs firms. For a sake of a fiver fare, you have instead cost yourself a 14 month ban and Â£400 fine. Not to mention your insurance costs when you get your license back. Thats without the fact you could have caused someone serious harm. Do i feel sorry for you? No, not at all. As i wouldnt feel sorry for anyone that got done for the same thing including family etc. For a simple lack of judgement was it worth what you have lost.

There is also my brother in laws brother. He worked in the city had a 6 figure salary nice house wife kids etc. The guy had it made. Stupid twat did a similier thing left the pub in his company car to drive home a few miles. Crashed into a car on a T junction. Obviously lost his license. But he also lost his job then his home because he couldnt get another job that paid so well. His wife then left him. Now he rents a one bedroom house in Chafford Hundred has no friends has become a complete hermit. When i was a kid i used to see him in Armani suits rolex watch etc. The guy always looked immaculate now he just looks like a tramp. All for a silly lapse in judgement and the thought it wouldnt happen to him.


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## garyc

Ouch! A momentary lapse of reason - that's what alchohol can do. At nearly twice the legal limit with Â£400 and 14 months , I'd say that you got off very lightly and should actually be thankful for the lenience of the court.

Luckily you didn't have an accident or injure any third party.

Sounds like you are taking it on the chin and will learn your lesson.

It could in a way be quite liberating - sell you car and watch everyone elses depreciate - no motoring bills or warranty issues - have to get mates to run you around.

Although you will have to listen to a few more turgid 'cabby pearls of wisdom' than you would otherwise normally do....

Hope your work is not too affected.


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## garyc

genocidalduck said:


> L8 orgy i thought i would put my 2p worth in aswell....But this is a strange one. Due to my job i pick up alot of people that have to use cabs as there main form off transport after being banned for drink driving. The worrying thing is none of them show any remorse and not even embarressed about admitting it. Actually makes me abit mad. They know they have made a mistake which luckily wasnt a costly one in respect to people losing there lives. So hats off to you for realising you was wrong and holding your hands up to it and from what i know of you from your posts you are a decent bloke. However! This is the reason why there are cabs firms. For a sake of a fiver fare, you have instead cost yourself a 14 month ban and Â£400 fine. Not to mention your insurance costs when you get your license back. Thats without the fact you could have caused someone serious harm. Do i feel sorry for you? No, not at all. As i wouldnt feel sorry for anyone that got done for the same thing including family etc. For a simple lack of judgement was it worth what you have lost.
> 
> There is also my brother in laws brother. He worked in the city had a 6 figure salary nice house wife kids etc. The guy had it made. Stupid twat did a similier thing left the pub in his company car to drive home a few miles. Crashed into a car on a T junction. Obviously lost his license. But he also lost his job then his home because he couldnt get another job that paid so well. His wife then left him. Now he rents a one bedroom house in Chafford Hundred has no friends has become a complete hermit. When i was a kid i used to see him in Armani suits rolex watch etc. The guy always looked immaculate now he just looks like a tramp. All for a silly lapse in judgement and the thought it wouldnt happen to him.


You even sound like a cabby. :roll:


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## raven

L8_0RGY said:


> NaughTTy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Errm - dare we ask why you won't be able to drive it (or have a I missed something recently)? :?
> 
> 
> 
> No you haven't! I debated about whether to post something about this or not and decided not to as I'm severely p'd off with myself over this incident.
> 
> Basically I went out on Friday night and at 00:05am I got pulled over by the Pigs who arrested me under suspicion of drink driving.
> 
> I had gone out 1 mile from where my flat is yet I stupidly decided to drive there.
> 
> I was breathalysed back at the station and had a reading of 61. The limit is 35.
> 
> They kindly kept me in a cell for 5 hours until 05:15am and booked a court date for yesterday - the only Valentines present I received - and I have been banned for 18 months which can be reduced to 14 months if I take a 'rehabilitation' course plus Â£400 fine + costs.
> 
> Therefore it's not worth keeping the car for 14 months as it is not only going to depreciate but the insurance will be sky high as well when I can start driving again in April 2007.
> 
> Like I said, a stupid judgement on my part and I have had to pay a severe price for it.
Click to expand...

How many times did you drive home over the limit and not get caught? :?

No excuse and I have no sympathy for you whatsoever. However, at least you're honest enough to admit it and also admit that you were an idiot - as an obvious car enthusiast you must be gutted to sell your new car.


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## scoTTy

I thought I was gonna be a lone voice on this thread until I saw W7 PMC's.

I also have no sympathy. I'm sure this wasn't the one and only time you've ever driven whilst over the limit (apologies if I'm wrong with that assumption) but it's just the first time you've been caught.

Your comment about "after 11pm the majority of drivers have probably got a drink or two inside of them, its just down to who the Pigs stop that evening" seems like you're trying to say you was just unlucky. Well I think the rest of the population was lucky. It's absolute bollocks that the majority of drivers at that time have had a drink. Does it make you feel less isolated thinking that?

100% glad you're off the road. No sympathy at all for drunk drivers.

Fair play for coming forward and being honest but you deserve everything you've got.


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## Loz180

Wow!

Sorry to hear of your situation. I know the last thing you need is a lecture so just know that I was in court yesterday and nearly lost my licence for totting up. They gave me four weeks to come back with representation and letter from employer etc... seemed like they wanted me to have a better shot at pleading eceptional hardship. I was grateful. I would have lost it all.

I drove away from court with my heart in my mouth and first phone call (when I stopped the car!) was to a specialist. I can only imagine how hard it must have been to walk out of the court knowing that driving was "game over" for you.

No matter how stupid it was, I can appreciate your pain and think in your account you show a mature attitude towards your situtation. Never mind the Ifs and buts, get it behind you and cope as best you can. Tomorrow is another day. The main thing is, everyone lived through it and more than just yourself might learn from it.

Amen


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## kmpowell

W7 PMC said:


> I tried to resist, but couldn't so i'm drawn to drop in my 2 pence worth.
> 
> I unlike others on here don't feel the slightest bit for you. It's a fcuking stupid & selfish thing you did & i for one think 18 Months is not long enough. You will no doubt learn your lesson from this & thank god the only person to suffer is the culprit & you didn't injure of kill some poor individual. The only slight caveat is your honesty which i'm sure goes some way to show your remourse.
> 
> As for being singled out, i don't have massive respect for the police these days, but they have to have reasonable grounds to pull you over no matter what time of the day or night, so you being twice the legal limit i guess your driving must have interested them in some way, even though you probably thought you were driving perfectly. If you only had less than 1 mile to travel, for god sake man either walk or get a cab.
> 
> The reasoning behind me being drawn to post is that i was very nearly killed by a drunk driver when i was 15 & that to$$er decided to drive off without a care in the world, so i have zero tolerance for drink driving full stop. He was alot more than twice the legal limit, but drink driving is drink driving, whether it's twice the limit or 5 times the limit. He got banned for 18 months & fined Â£250 & i faced him in court when he was sentenced (not a day i'll forget in a hurry) He should have been tried for attempted murder as far as i'm concerned.
> 
> This is not a personal attack as i'd say the same thing to my best friend or a family member if they did the same, although i'd probably slap them sufficiently as well.





scoTTy said:


> I thought I was gonna be a lone voice on this thread until I saw W7 PMC's.
> 
> I also have no sympathy. I'm sure this wasn't the one and only time you've ever driven whilst over the limit (apologies if I'm wrong with that assumption) but it's just the first time you've been caught.
> 
> Your comment about "after 11pm the majority of drivers have probably got a drink or two inside of them, its just down to who the Pigs stop that evening" seems like you're trying to say you was just unlucky. Well I think the rest of the population was lucky. It's absolute bollocks that the majority of drivers at that time have had a drink. Does it make you feel less isolated thinking that?
> 
> 100% glad you're off the road. No sympathy at all for drunk drivers.
> 
> Fair play for coming forward and being honest but you deserve everything you've got.


Nothing extra I wish to add apart from I agree 101% with the above.


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## r1

Yup, zero sympathy from here too.

You've made it public, rather foolishly in my opinion, but that is utterly irrelevant.

Hopefully it's prevented you from causing an inevitable accident, even it if just for 14 months.

Sorry for the attack, but I'm another person who's seen the direct result of a drink driver ruining a family because he was too selfish to walk/cab/bus.


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## mighTy Tee

kmpowell said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> 
> I tried to resist, but couldn't so i'm drawn to drop in my 2 pence worth.
> 
> I unlike others on here don't feel the slightest bit for you. It's a fcuking stupid & selfish thing you did & i for one think 18 Months is not long enough. You will no doubt learn your lesson from this & thank god the only person to suffer is the culprit & you didn't injure of kill some poor individual. The only slight caveat is your honesty which i'm sure goes some way to show your remourse.
> 
> As for being singled out, i don't have massive respect for the police these days, but they have to have reasonable grounds to pull you over no matter what time of the day or night, so you being twice the legal limit i guess your driving must have interested them in some way, even though you probably thought you were driving perfectly. If you only had less than 1 mile to travel, for god sake man either walk or get a cab.
> 
> The reasoning behind me being drawn to post is that i was very nearly killed by a drunk driver when i was 15 & that to$$er decided to drive off without a care in the world, so i have zero tolerance for drink driving full stop. He was alot more than twice the legal limit, but drink driving is drink driving, whether it's twice the limit or 5 times the limit. He got banned for 18 months & fined Â£250 & i faced him in court when he was sentenced (not a day i'll forget in a hurry) He should have been tried for attempted murder as far as i'm concerned.
> 
> This is not a personal attack as i'd say the same thing to my best friend or a family member if they did the same, although i'd probably slap them sufficiently as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> scoTTy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I was gonna be a lone voice on this thread until I saw W7 PMC's.
> 
> I also have no sympathy. I'm sure this wasn't the one and only time you've ever driven whilst over the limit (apologies if I'm wrong with that assumption) but it's just the first time you've been caught.
> 
> Your comment about "after 11pm the majority of drivers have probably got a drink or two inside of them, its just down to who the Pigs stop that evening" seems like you're trying to say you was just unlucky. Well I think the rest of the population was lucky. It's absolute bollocks that the majority of drivers at that time have had a drink. Does it make you feel less isolated thinking that?
> 
> 100% glad you're off the road. No sympathy at all for drunk drivers.
> 
> Fair play for coming forward and being honest but you deserve everything you've got.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing extra I wish to add apart from I agree 101% with the above.
Click to expand...

I am not sticking up for L8 ORGY, but all three of you guys drive hard and fast.

I am no saint and it is not for me to preach, but excessive/irresponsible speed is just as dangerous, and if things go wrong it probably has far greater consequences when you round the fast blind corner to find the unexpected.

I dont disagree with L8's ban, like I wouldn't disagree with a charge of death by dangerous driving leading to a prison term, however it is human nature to have sympathy and in L8's case (I have not met the bloke) his apparent genuine remorse did draw my sympathy.

All IMO of course.


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## NIIK_TT

I have heard a statistic that if you drive very tired you end up having the concentration of a drunk driver. How many people have had accidents that have killed people because they didnt have full concentration due to tiredness? Surely those that do this are just as iresponsibile as a drunk driver and I wonder how many critical people here have driven that extra few miles on a long journey while feeling excessively tired?

I am sorry to hear whats happened. We ALL make lapses in judgement - some worst then others. As long as one learns from it thats what matters.


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## scoTTy

mighTy Tee said:


> I am not sticking up for L8 ORGY, but all three of you guys drive hard and fast.
> 
> I am no saint and it is not for me to preach, but excessive/irresponsible speed is just as dangerous, and if things go wrong it probably has far greater consequences when you round the fast blind corner to find the unexpected.
> 
> I dont disagree with L8's ban, like I wouldn't disagree with a charge of death by dangerous driving leading to a prison term, however it is human nature to have sympathy and in L8's case (I have not met the bloke) his apparent genuine remorse did draw my sympathy.
> 
> All IMO of course.


You are of course entitled to your opinion but you shouldn't assume that people drive as you suggest. I'm not sure I even drive "hard". The Drivetrain training does give you an insight into faster driving but it's stated many times about the highway code and how you must be able to stop in the distance you can see infront of you. Therefore since I don't go round blind corners fast, I assume you agree that perhaps I'm not actually as bad as a drunk driver.

On public roads, there can be a time and place when you can exploite the power of your car. There NEVER is a time for a drunk to take to the road.

I'd agree that "excessive/irresponsible speed" can be "just as dangerous" but that's where it comes down to the individual. You can't tarnish everyone with the same brush. i.e. a 16 year old who has done 85mph on one stretch of road can't be compared with a police driver doing the same speed on another selected piece of road.

Drunks on the road are wrong regardless of the excuse.


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## L8_0RGY

NIIK_TT said:


> I have heard a statistic that if you drive very tired you end up having the concentration of a drunk driver. How many people have had accidents that have killed people because they didnt have full concentration due to tiredness? Surely those that do this are just as iresponsibile as a drunk driver and I wonder how many critical people here have driven that extra few miles on a long journey while feeling excessively tired?
> 
> I am sorry to hear whats happened. We ALL make lapses in judgement - some worst then others. As long as one learns from it thats what matters.


Thanks Nik and Mighty.

Various people on here - who I haven't met - have said I am a fool, I am stupid etc etc. This I can take as really nothing can hurt as much as this ban so feel free to call me all the f'ing names you want to, I really don't give a shit, as previously admitted this was a stupid act but I bet that you've had a drink or two in your life and driven afterwards. Don't tell me that you haven't as when you go out for a meal with the missus (or Mr) do you drink soft drinks? Do you meet friends at pubs? How do you get to those pubs?

For whoever it was who said I was stupid to admit it may I point out that I only stated what had happened when asked by another member why I was selling the car.

Would you admit it if the same thing had happened to you?

It may calm your conscience - those who have had to say their 2pence of slagging off - to know that I haven't touched a drop of alcohol since, and don't plan to for a long long time. If this is what alcohol can do to your life then I don't want to be a part of it.


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## L8_0RGY

nutts said:


> Obviously, you can edit your first post and change the title... :roll:


I can't change the title as the first post is by NaughTTy.


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## scoTTy

L8_0RGY said:


> ...but I bet that you've had a drink or two in your life and driven afterwards. Don't tell me that you haven't as when you go out for a meal with the missus (or Mr) do you drink soft drinks? Do you meet friends at pubs? How do you get to those pubs?


It sounds like we live in very different worlds. The most I've ever had (if with a meal and I'm going to be there some time) is 1 pint of beer if I'm driving. I went to a car meet last night and ate there. I arrived at 19:00 and left at 23:00. I drank diet coke all night. It seems that previous to this incident this wouldn't have crossed your mind. I'm glad it does now.

Are you actually suggesting that "a drink or two" put you nearly twice over the limit. Was you drinking pints .... of vodka ?


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## mighTy Tee

scoTTy said:


> You are of course entitled to your opinion but you shouldn't assume that people drive as you suggest. I'm not sure I even drive "hard". The Drivetrain training does give you an insight into faster driving but it's stated many times about the highway code and how you must be able to stop in the distance you can see infront of you. Therefore since I don't go round blind corners fast, I assume you agree that perhaps I'm not actually as bad as a drunk driver.
> 
> On public roads, there can be a time and place when you can exploite the power of your car. There NEVER is a time for a drunk to take to the road.
> 
> I'd agree that "excessive/irresponsible speed" can be "just as dangerous" but that's where it comes down to the individual. You can't tarnish everyone with the same brush. i.e. a 16 year old who has done 85mph on one stretch of road can't be compared with a police driver doing the same speed on another selected piece of road.
> 
> Drunks on the road are wrong regardless of the excuse.


Paul, * I agree a drunk driver has no place on the road.* However what I was trying to say is we all drive fast cars, we probably drive them at speeds greater than the speed limit and we all (including Police Drivers) are human and prone to errors of judgement at those speeds resulting in "excessive/irresponsible speed" from which the consequences are likely to be serious injury or fatality to ourselves or others.

If one of you 3 guys have the misfortune to have a speed related incident, would you reject any sympathy given from this forum, or appreciated the kind thoughts and help from fellow members?

(I was going to add a "group hug" Emoticon, but the nearest is "cheers" which is most inappropriate for this discussion)


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## BAMTT

Feel for you L8 if it was a one off, my best mate did the same over 10 years ago, and it eventually changed his life for the better


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## sonicmonkey

Hats off to you for coming clean but I really can't sympathise with _anybody_ caught for drink driving (so not a personal attack fella).

I've had first hand experience of the results of drink driving, I had to be cut out of the car on xmas eve a few years ago after some [email protected] decided to have a couple and t-bone me at a junction. I was royally knackered for a good few months.

I believe you shouldn't be allowed to drive even if you've had just one. I know there has to be a definable limit but find it strange that somebody who is at 34 micrograms is considered "safe" and another person who has had just a sip more and is at 35.5 micrograms is considered dangerous.


----------



## digimeisTTer

For a start i think the title of this thread should be changed, very harsh indeed IMO.

I don't condone drink driving in any shape or form and although i have little sympathy, L8 has been very honest and held his hands up, he's not the first and certainly won't be the last and without doubt this will teach him a lesson.

I'll admit in my teens i drove whilst over the limit and I look back with a degree of horror, I was exteremely fortunate not to have had an accident.

So i'm not going to jump on the "holier than thou" bandwagon.


----------



## BreTT

Let's not forget that all pints are not created equal. For example, a pint of Stella, whilst reassuringly expensive, contains 3 units of alcohol and depending on your stature, what you've had to eat etc, could be enough to put you over the limit :?


----------



## jampott

W7 PMC said:


> I tried to resist, but couldn't so i'm drawn to drop in my 2 pence worth.
> 
> I unlike others on here don't feel the slightest bit for you. It's a fcuking stupid & selfish thing you did & i for one think 18 Months is not long enough. You will no doubt learn your lesson from this & thank god the only person to suffer is the culprit & you didn't injure of kill some poor individual. The only slight caveat is your honesty which i'm sure goes some way to show your remourse.
> 
> As for being singled out, i don't have massive respect for the police these days, but they have to have reasonable grounds to pull you over no matter what time of the day or night, so you being twice the legal limit i guess your driving must have interested them in some way, even though you probably thought you were driving perfectly. If you only had less than 1 mile to travel, for god sake man either walk or get a cab.
> 
> The reasoning behind me being drawn to post is that i was very nearly killed by a drunk driver when i was 15 & that to$$er decided to drive off without a care in the world, so i have zero tolerance for drink driving full stop. He was alot more than twice the legal limit, but drink driving is drink driving, whether it's twice the limit or 5 times the limit. He got banned for 18 months & fined Â£250 & i faced him in court when he was sentenced (not a day i'll forget in a hurry) He should have been tried for attempted murder as far as i'm concerned.
> 
> This is not a personal attack as i'd say the same thing to my best friend or a family member if they did the same, although i'd probably slap them sufficiently as well.


Paul, having seen the way you drive on the public roads, perhaps you'd care to explain how deliberate reckless driving is any better than drink driving?

Certainly not a personal attack directed at anyone - but I fail to see the logic in condemning one type of dangerous stupidity, yet finding the other perfectly acceptable. Both are deliberate, avoidable and have potentially grave consequences.

I'm fully prepared to admit that I take occasional risks on the road, relying on my judgement at speed, and the knowledge that I have a fairly decent chasis under me, offering decent traction and sufficient trickery to save my ass at times... I'll also admit that I have driven whilst extremely tired, yet carried on driving longer than I should without taking a break. I've also (once, and once only) driven whilst over the limit. As someone else has already pointed out, ALL THREE of these things are dangerous, and ALL THREE involve situations where the driver has a choice.

Only "drink driving" is singled out with quite such gravity, however - probably because the police can't measure "tiredness", or don't witness reckless (but sober) driving.

Anyone suggesting that L8 was an "accident waiting to happen" should seriously consider their own driving style and technique before commenting on others. Let him without sin cast the first stone.


----------



## L8_0RGY

scoTTy said:


> L8_0RGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...but I bet that you've had a drink or two in your life and driven afterwards. Don't tell me that you haven't as when you go out for a meal with the missus (or Mr) do you drink soft drinks? Do you meet friends at pubs? How do you get to those pubs?
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like we live in very different worlds. The most I've ever had (if with a meal and I'm going to be there some time) is 1 pint of beer if I'm driving. I went to a car meet last night and ate there. I arrived at 19:00 and left at 23:00. I drank diet coke all night. It seems that previous to this incident this wouldn't have crossed your mind. I'm glad it does now.
> 
> Are you actually suggesting that "a drink or two" put you nearly twice over the limit. Was you drinking pints .... of vodka ?
Click to expand...

Ha ha, your wit is killing me.

Who knows if we live in different worlds, I am 24 and have been driving for 5 years - 2 years on a company car, and three years in a TT, I had a clean licence and three years NCB from the three years I had been insuring 'myself'. I have a house in the country as well as a flat in London so this ban is extra hard for me as I used to spend about 1/2 my week in the country, now with this ban imposed I can't - there, that's my world.

FYI, I wasn't drinking vodka no. I was going to state what I was drinking but whats the point? Are you the jury?


----------



## scoTTy

I not a jury. I'm simply responding to your post which said hasn't everyone had a drink or two. To me (perhaps wrongly) you seemed to be alligning yourself with those who had where as to get to your level it would have taken more.

You took a decision to drink whilst DRUNK. Not just after two pints. I don't condone any drink driving but it's not like you just slipped over the limit.

4 pints ? 6 pints?

You don't have to answer (you don't even have to read my posts) but I am interested in how much alcohol was required to get to that level of blood count.

The different worlds comment was on the wastly different opinions we have on what's acceptable. I got/get the impression that in your worldyou perceive that the majority of people on the road at 11pm. From the world I live in it's not the case at all.


----------



## DXN

L8

Are you going to keep the golf cart (AKA Bugsy car) ?


----------



## kmpowell

L8_0RGY said:


> but I bet that you've had a drink or two in your life and driven afterwards.


Never. Not once in my 28 years on this planet have i EVER had more than 1 bottle (330ml normally) beer and driven.

I may be a lot of things, but a drink driver i am not. If I am ever in a position where I have to drive, I will drink soft drinks. Or if I am eating I may have a bottle of beer.

Socially after work, family ocassions, any kind of occasion where I know I have to drive, one bottle of beer maybe, but the vast majority of the time I will not drink. Full Stop.

This is quite an interesting thread and I really am amazed at some peoples sympathy!

A question for you... would the sympathy still be there if L8 had mowed over a mother with her child innocently crossing the road, whilst he was twice the legal limit?

:?


----------



## NIIK_TT

Kmpowell - Having a single 330ml bottle of strong beer can put u over the drink drive limit! Factors like weight, height and metabolism also determine whether that strong 330ml of beer takes you over the limit.

Therefore quantity of drink should not be used as an indicator of whether you are legal or not to drive!!


----------



## jampott

Kev - of course not. But then there wouldn't be if he was driving stupidly (around a roundabout in Newport?) :roll: and lost it there either.

I guess we'll never get a proper understanding of how many avoidable accidents were due to drink, and how many to people driving like twats, or driving tired, but I'm sure all are pretty equal on the grand scheme of things.


----------



## jonah

kmpowell said:


> L8_0RGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> but I bet that you've had a drink or two in your life and driven afterwards.
> 
> 
> 
> Never. Not once in my 28 years on this planet have i EVER had more than 1 bottle (330ml normally) beer and driven.
> 
> I may be a lot of things, but a drink driver i am not. If I am ever in a position where I have to drive, I will drink soft drinks. Or if I am eating I may have a bottle of beer.
> 
> Socially after work, family ocassions, any kind of occasion where I know I have to drive, one bottle of beer maybe, but the vast majority of the time I will not drink. Full Stop.
> 
> This is quite an interesting thread and I really am amazed at some peoples sympathy!
> 
> A question for you... would the sympathy still be there if L8 had mowed over a mother with her child innocently crossing the road, whilst he was twice the legal limit?
> 
> :?
Click to expand...

What about the morning after the night before :? I'm sure everyone here has done this :? The anual meet last yr for one there was a few who would of been over the limit me included 

I do feel for you and it was a stupid mistake which you are paying dearly for.

I agree with what Tim says 100%


----------



## kmpowell

jonah said:


> kmpowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L8_0RGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> but I bet that you've had a drink or two in your life and driven afterwards.
> 
> 
> 
> Never. Not once in my 28 years on this planet have i EVER had more than 1 bottle (330ml normally) beer and driven.
> 
> I may be a lot of things, but a drink driver i am not. If I am ever in a position where I have to drive, I will drink soft drinks. Or if I am eating I may have a bottle of beer.
> 
> Socially after work, family ocassions, any kind of occasion where I know I have to drive, one bottle of beer maybe, but the vast majority of the time I will not drink. Full Stop.
> 
> This is quite an interesting thread and I really am amazed at some peoples sympathy!
> 
> A question for you... would the sympathy still be there if L8 had mowed over a mother with her child innocently crossing the road, whilst he was twice the legal limit?
> 
> :?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about the morning after the night before :? I'm sure everyone here has done this, and i may be wrong that you've even stated here you've had a hangover after a night out and driven, correct me if I'm wrong!
Click to expand...

Ok I will correct you. I always wait untill the alcohol would have passed through my body. A witness to this will be Head_Ed. If i go out in cardiff with him, some mates, and I kip at his drum, i'll always wait untill mid- late afternoon before I drive home. Even if it means hanging round doing nothing.


----------



## jonah

I edited my earlier post KMP 

What you have to remember is it was alpse of judgement for which he is paying for.

I would be intrested in when you think the alcholhol has passed through your body though :? just how much alcholhol you think you can have before yoru over the limit :? 
I would without doubt say everyone here who drinks has been over the limit at one point in thier lives not knowingly though.

Jonah


----------



## scoTTy

jonah said:


> I would without doubt say everyone here who drinks has been over the limit at one point in thier lives not knowingly though.
> 
> Jonah


I doubt it but even if true then this is surely different from knowingly driving when pissed. We're not talking about being 1mg over the limit here.


----------



## L8_0RGY

NIIK_TT said:


> Kmpowell - Having a single 330ml bottle of strong beer can put u over the drink drive limit! Factors like weight, height and metabolism also determine whether that strong 330ml of beer takes you over the limit.
> 
> Therefore quantity of drink should not be used as an indicator of whether you are legal or not to drive!!


Correct, try having a strong Dutch beer at lunch before you've had anything to eat. There is a Dutch mussel and beer bar near my office and after 1/2 pint of one of their specials without any food inside you feel as if you've just drunk a few pints.

DXN - yeah the 'Noddy' car is at home but it hasn't been working for ages, we were given it by the owner of Metrocab (the London taxi maker) and soon after it stopped working. I have phoned him several times trying to get one of his engineers to come and fix it as it won't charge - it's 100% electric - but despite his promises we haven't had either a call back.

Oh and for the record, No I don't go out, get pissed, and drive regularly, hence the text in my first post about it being a lapse of concentration.


----------



## jonah

scoTTy said:


> jonah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would without doubt say everyone here who drinks has been over the limit at one point in thier lives not knowingly though.
> 
> Jonah
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt it but even if true then this is surely different from knowingly driving when pissed. We're not talking about being 1mg over the limit here.
Click to expand...

I accept that but over the limit is over the limit, had he of been 1mg over and killed someone the penalty would of been far greater :?


----------



## W7 PMC

jampott said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> 
> I tried to resist, but couldn't so i'm drawn to drop in my 2 pence worth.
> 
> I unlike others on here don't feel the slightest bit for you. It's a fcuking stupid & selfish thing you did & i for one think 18 Months is not long enough. You will no doubt learn your lesson from this & thank god the only person to suffer is the culprit & you didn't injure of kill some poor individual. The only slight caveat is your honesty which i'm sure goes some way to show your remourse.
> 
> As for being singled out, i don't have massive respect for the police these days, but they have to have reasonable grounds to pull you over no matter what time of the day or night, so you being twice the legal limit i guess your driving must have interested them in some way, even though you probably thought you were driving perfectly. If you only had less than 1 mile to travel, for god sake man either walk or get a cab.
> 
> The reasoning behind me being drawn to post is that i was very nearly killed by a drunk driver when i was 15 & that to$$er decided to drive off without a care in the world, so i have zero tolerance for drink driving full stop. He was alot more than twice the legal limit, but drink driving is drink driving, whether it's twice the limit or 5 times the limit. He got banned for 18 months & fined Â£250 & i faced him in court when he was sentenced (not a day i'll forget in a hurry) He should have been tried for attempted murder as far as i'm concerned.
> 
> This is not a personal attack as i'd say the same thing to my best friend or a family member if they did the same, although i'd probably slap them sufficiently as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Paul, having seen the way you drive on the public roads, perhaps you'd care to explain how deliberate reckless driving is any better than drink driving?
> 
> Certainly not a personal attack directed at anyone - but I fail to see the logic in condemning one type of dangerous stupidity, yet finding the other perfectly acceptable. Both are deliberate, avoidable and have potentially grave consequences.
> 
> I'm fully prepared to admit that I take occasional risks on the road, relying on my judgement at speed, and the knowledge that I have a fairly decent chasis under me, offering decent traction and sufficient trickery to save my ass at times... I'll also admit that I have driven whilst extremely tired, yet carried on driving longer than I should without taking a break. I've also (once, and once only) driven whilst over the limit. As someone else has already pointed out, ALL THREE of these things are dangerous, and ALL THREE involve situations where the driver has a choice.
> 
> Only "drink driving" is singled out with quite such gravity, however - probably because the police can't measure "tiredness", or don't witness reckless (but sober) driving.
> 
> Anyone suggesting that L8 was an "accident waiting to happen" should seriously consider their own driving style and technique before commenting on others. Let him without sin cast the first stone.
Click to expand...

Tim,

We're gonna have to wildly disagree on this one. I've been known to plant the throttle in my car once or twice, but hardly in dangerous situations therefore not reckless & only if the situation is suitable such as a clear motorway etc. certainly not a built up area or at night etc. I don't cut people up or force them off the road & i doubt i ever will. I do sometimes get agrivated at other drivers & that has sometimes lead to me firing past them on the motorway when they finally move over, but again it's hardly reckless & the key point is at all times on the public roads, i'm far from the cars limits & i'd like to think far from my own.

I've never even been close to over the limit & will stop for a break roughly every 2 hours on a longer drive. So i'll state again, the odd moment of joy on the road when fairly safe - safe is hardly the same thing. L8 has no idea how his judegement is impaired when at twice the legal limit, i know my judgement at 90 or even 100MPH on a motorway.

The fianl point is that one is a motoring offence (speeding) & the other a criminal offence. End of. Plus the obvious social stigma for drink driving is a little worse than gaining 3 points for doing 36 in a 30.


----------



## W7 PMC

jampott said:


> Kev - of course not. But then there wouldn't be if he was driving stupidly (around a roundabout in Newport?) :roll: and lost it there either.
> 
> I guess we'll never get a proper understanding of how many avoidable accidents were due to drink, and how many to people driving like twats, or driving tired, but I'm sure all are pretty equal on the grand scheme of things.


I'd hazard an educated guess Tim, that far more people are affected by death or injury due to drink driving, rather than speeding or driving tired (would include drugs in the drink total).

Going back to my point, i'm perhaps OTT with my hate for drink driving, but i feel i have every right due to almost losing my life to one in 1985. You make a choice & every mile driven while under the influence is a dangerous mile, I like most do not speed or hoon everywhere i drive, in fact any speeding has really been focused on a track.


----------



## Sim

NIIK_TT said:


> Kmpowell - Having a single 330ml bottle of strong beer can put u over the drink drive limit! Factors like weight, height and metabolism also determine whether that strong 330ml of beer takes you over the limit.
> 
> Therefore quantity of drink should not be used as an indicator of whether you are legal or not to drive!!


*Rubbish! *Yes other factors do come in to play but unless Kev is less than 1ft tall and under a stone I think he will be okay :roll:

Alcohol is normally measured in "units" of 10 mg of alcohol. The 33 cl bottles of "designer lagers" are usually between 5% and 5.5% ABV, meaning that each contains almost *two units*.

The rate of absorption of alcohol into the bloodstream is unpredictable and depends on a number of factors such as the level of hydration, the type of alcoholic drink consumed and whether food is eaten at the same time. As a broad rule of thumb, the alcohol in a drink is fully absorbed about an hour after the drink is finished.

The rate at which alcohol is metabolised and removed from the bloodstream is rather more predictable, and averages out at one unit per hour, starting one hour after the first drink is finished. However, the capacity of the body to metabolise alcohol is finite, and is limited to about 16-20 units per day. If you consistently drink around or above this level, you will probably never be below the limit - and you also need to consider seriously whether you have a drink problem!.

Immediately before driving, *men should consume no more than 4 units*, women no more than 3. This applies to people of average weight (around 12-13 st for men, 9-10 st for women). If you are particularly small, these figures should be reduced accordingly. But if you are particularly big, it is no guarantee that they can be increased. The figures are lower for women not only because they are usually lighter than men, but also because their metabolism is different.

If you drink more than this, it will not guarantee that you will exceed 80 mg, as the rate of absorption of alcohol is so unpredictable. But even with one unit more you will be running a tangible risk. The above figures are the maximum you can consume without any significant risk of exceeding the legal limit, and also without resulting in any significant increase in accident risk.


----------



## Kell

Personally - I think most of the comments on here are borderline personal attacks.

That aside, while YOU may not have ever in your life done anything wrong whilst driving, most of us can't claim to be so holy.

It does make me laugh that people say "I only speed when I think it's safe to do so" - it doesn't matter. If it's illegal to do so, what you think is irrelevant. And didn't you get banned from driving for speeding Paul (Clarkson)?

L8 made an error of judgement for which he is now paying the price. He has been brave enough to publically admit it - knowing full well the kicking he would take on here.

No, you're right, if he'd ploughed down someone then we would all be saying what an idiot, but he didn't. This time. Hopefully he'll learn and will never even contemplate it again.

For the record - somethng I learned at school and have never forgotten is that your body will get rid of one unit of alcohol per hour - after an initial hour while it processes the alcohol. SO if you knecked a pint in one go and it was ordinary strength lager (2 units) if would take you a total of three hours to have no alcohol in your system. HEnce why a lot of people who wouldn't dream of 'drink driving' get caught out the following morning as all the alcohol hasn't gone out of their system.

Also for the record, I've admitted this before too, but I got stopped by the police for speeding (when I was 17) and I might have been over the limit (but bordeline) as I'd had three cans of lager earlier that night. Point is, they couldn't get the breathaliser to work, but it scared me so much, I've never even considered it again. Lesson learned and no harm done.

I consider myself lucky - in much the same way as Rupert should.

And also, also for the record: two friends of mine were knocked over by a hit and run drunk driver. They knew who he was, knew he'd been drinking all night and knew that he'd done it on purpose - yet he still wasn't convicted. Both are still affected by it and one had a very promising career as a racing driver cut short.

So any accusations that I only believe what I believe is because I don't understand what it's like are unfounded.


----------



## BAMTT

Sim said:


> NIIK_TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kmpowell - Having a single 330ml bottle of strong beer can put u over the drink drive limit! Factors like weight, height and metabolism also determine whether that strong 330ml of beer takes you over the limit.
> 
> Therefore quantity of drink should not be used as an indicator of whether you are legal or not to drive!!
> 
> 
> 
> *Rubbish! *Yes other factors do come in to play but unless Kev is less than 1ft tall and under a stone I think he will be okay :roll:
> 
> Alcohol is normally measured in "units" of 10 mg of alcohol. The 33 cl bottles of "designer lagers" are usually between 5% and 5.5% ABV, meaning that each contains almost *two units*.
> 
> The rate of absorption of alcohol into the bloodstream is unpredictable and depends on a number of factors such as the level of hydration, the type of alcoholic drink consumed and whether food is eaten at the same time. As a broad rule of thumb, the alcohol in a drink is fully absorbed about an hour after the drink is finished.
> 
> The rate at which alcohol is metabolised and removed from the bloodstream is rather more predictable, and averages out at one unit per hour, starting one hour after the first drink is finished. However, the capacity of the body to metabolise alcohol is finite, and is limited to about 16-20 units per day. If you consistently drink around or above this level, you will probably never be below the limit - and you also need to consider seriously whether you have a drink problem!.
> 
> Immediately before driving, *men should consume no more than 4 units*, women no more than 3. This applies to people of average weight (around 12-13 st for men, 9-10 st for women). If you are particularly small, these figures should be reduced accordingly. But if you are particularly big, it is no guarantee that they can be increased. The figures are lower for women not only because they are usually lighter than men, but also because their metabolism is different.
> 
> If you drink more than this, it will not guarantee that you will exceed 80 mg, as the rate of absorption of alcohol is so unpredictable. But even with one unit more you will be running a tangible risk. The above figures are the maximum you can consume without any significant risk of exceeding the legal limit, and also without resulting in any significant increase in accident risk.
Click to expand...

How about a 150ml glass of wine ?


----------



## Kell

BAMTT said:


> How about a 150ml glass of wine ?


As far as I remember from the same school lecture I mentioned above. one single measure of spirits or small glass of wine is one unit of alcohol.

Which is why stronger drinks come in smaller measures.


----------



## Sim

Kell said:


> BAMTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about a 150ml glass of wine ?
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I remember from the same school lecture I mentioned above. one single measure of spirits or small glass of wine is one unit of alcohol.
> 
> Which is why stronger drinks come in smaller measures.
Click to expand...

German wines have an ABV as low as 8%, and many pubs and restaurants serve wine in 175 ml or even 225 ml glasses, rather than 125 ml. A 175 ml glass of wine of 12% ABV, which is fairly typical, represents two units.

Most 25ml spirits are 0.9 - 1 unit. A pint of regular cider is 2.8 units


----------



## jampott

W7 PMC said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kev - of course not. But then there wouldn't be if he was driving stupidly (around a roundabout in Newport?) :roll: and lost it there either.
> 
> I guess we'll never get a proper understanding of how many avoidable accidents were due to drink, and how many to people driving like twats, or driving tired, but I'm sure all are pretty equal on the grand scheme of things.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd hazard an educated guess Tim, that far more people are affected by death or injury due to drink driving, rather than speeding or driving tired (would include drugs in the drink total).
> 
> Going back to my point, i'm perhaps OTT with my hate for drink driving, but i feel i have every right due to almost losing my life to one in 1985. You make a choice & every mile driven while under the influence is a dangerous mile, I like most do not speed or hoon everywhere i drive, in fact any speeding has really been focused on a track.
Click to expand...

I'd be interested in the statistics, but I would suggest that drink deaths are a much smaller proportion of the total than you seem to think.

Just as you don't hoon or speed EVERYWHERE, neither do most drink drivers.


----------



## Kell

Sim said:


> Kell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BAMTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about a 150ml glass of wine ?
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I remember from the same school lecture I mentioned above. one single measure of spirits or small glass of wine is one unit of alcohol.
> 
> Which is why stronger drinks come in smaller measures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> German wines have an ABV as low as 8%, and many pubs and restaurants serve wine in 175 ml or even 225 ml glasses, rather than 125 ml. A 175 ml glass of wine of 12% ABV, which is fairly typical, represents two units.
> 
> Most 25ml spirits are 0.9 - 1 unit. A pint of regular cider is 2.8 units
Click to expand...

Unfortuantley, this is where the confusion arises. :?

If you THINK you're only having one unit of alcohol when you're actually having two, it doesn't make the consequences any less dangerous - only the intent.

Best to have none - which, I think, is the point that NIIK_TT was trying to make.


----------



## Sim

jampott said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kev - of course not. But then there wouldn't be if he was driving stupidly (around a roundabout in Newport?) :roll: and lost it there either.
> 
> I guess we'll never get a proper understanding of how many avoidable accidents were due to drink, and how many to people driving like twats, or driving tired, but I'm sure all are pretty equal on the grand scheme of things.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd hazard an educated guess Tim, that far more people are affected by death or injury due to drink driving, rather than speeding or driving tired (would include drugs in the drink total).
> 
> Going back to my point, i'm perhaps OTT with my hate for drink driving, but i feel i have every right due to almost losing my life to one in 1985. You make a choice & every mile driven while under the influence is a dangerous mile, I like most do not speed or hoon everywhere i drive, in fact any speeding has really been focused on a track.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'd be interested in the statistics, but I would suggest that drink deaths are a much smaller proportion of the total than you seem to think.
> 
> Just as you don't hoon or speed EVERYWHERE, neither do most drink drivers.
Click to expand...

In 2003 (the latest year for which we have definite statistics), 2170 people were killed or seriously injured in drink related accidents.


----------



## Sim

Kell said:


> Sim said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BAMTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about a 150ml glass of wine ?
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I remember from the same school lecture I mentioned above. one single measure of spirits or small glass of wine is one unit of alcohol.
> 
> Which is why stronger drinks come in smaller measures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> German wines have an ABV as low as 8%, and many pubs and restaurants serve wine in 175 ml or even 225 ml glasses, rather than 125 ml. A 175 ml glass of wine of 12% ABV, which is fairly typical, represents two units.
> 
> Most 25ml spirits are 0.9 - 1 unit. A pint of regular cider is 2.8 units
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortuantley, this is where the confusion arises. :?
> 
> If you THINK you're only having one unit of alcohol when you're actually having two, it doesn't make the consequences any less dangerous - only the intent.
> 
> Best to have none - which, I think, is the point that NIIK_TT was trying to make.
Click to expand...

No, the point he was making was


> Kmpowell - Having a single 330ml bottle of strong beer can put u over the drink drive limit!


Not sure where he gets his beer from but I would not mind a drop :wink:


----------



## jampott

Sim said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kev - of course not. But then there wouldn't be if he was driving stupidly (around a roundabout in Newport?) :roll: and lost it there either.
> 
> I guess we'll never get a proper understanding of how many avoidable accidents were due to drink, and how many to people driving like twats, or driving tired, but I'm sure all are pretty equal on the grand scheme of things.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd hazard an educated guess Tim, that far more people are affected by death or injury due to drink driving, rather than speeding or driving tired (would include drugs in the drink total).
> 
> Going back to my point, i'm perhaps OTT with my hate for drink driving, but i feel i have every right due to almost losing my life to one in 1985. You make a choice & every mile driven while under the influence is a dangerous mile, I like most do not speed or hoon everywhere i drive, in fact any speeding has really been focused on a track.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'd be interested in the statistics, but I would suggest that drink deaths are a much smaller proportion of the total than you seem to think.
> 
> Just as you don't hoon or speed EVERYWHERE, neither do most drink drivers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In 2003 (the latest year for which we have definite statistics), 2170 people were killed or seriously injured in drink related accidents.
Click to expand...

And how many killed / seriously injured IN TOTAL that year?


----------



## W7 PMC

Kell said:


> Personally - I think most of the comments on here are borderline personal attacks.
> 
> That aside, while YOU may not have ever in your life done anything wrong whilst driving, most of us can't claim to be so holy.
> 
> It does make me laugh that people say "I only speed when I think it's safe to do so" - it doesn't matter. If it's illegal to do so, what you think is irrelevant. And didn't you get banned from driving for speeding Paul (Clarkson)?
> 
> L8 made an error of judgement for which he is now paying the price. He has been brave enough to publically admit it - knowing full well the kicking he would take on here.
> 
> No, you're right, if he'd ploughed down someone then we would all be saying what an idiot, but he didn't. This time. Hopefully he'll learn and will never even contemplate it again.
> 
> For the record - somethng I learned at school and have never forgotten is that your body will get rid of one unit of alcohol per hour - after an initial hour while it processes the alcohol. SO if you knecked a pint in one go and it was ordinary strength lager (2 units) if would take you a total of three hours to have no alcohol in your system. HEnce why a lot of people who wouldn't dream of 'drink driving' get caught out the following morning as all the alcohol hasn't gone out of their system.
> 
> Also for the record, I've admitted this before too, but I got stopped by the police for speeding (when I was 17) and I might have been over the limit (but bordeline) as I'd had three cans of lager earlier that night. Point is, they couldn't get the breathaliser to work, but it scared me so much, I've never even considered it again. Lesson learned and no harm done.
> 
> I consider myself lucky - in much the same way as Rupert should.
> 
> And also, also for the record: two friends of mine were knocked over by a hit and run drunk driver. They knew who he was, knew he'd been drinking all night and knew that he'd done it on purpose - yet he still wasn't convicted. Both are still affected by it and one had a very promising career as a racing driver cut short.
> 
> So any accusations that I only believe what I believe is because I don't understand what it's like are unfounded.


Slightly over the top i think.

I've never been banned for speeding, never been banned for any offence. When i was much much younger, i certainly was guilty of speeding a little more than i should have, but all offences back then were 35 in a 30, 46 in a 40 & got an 84 on the motorway, so hardly a dangerous speed demon am i.

As for "i only speed when it's safe to do so" that's totally out of context, assuming i always drive very fast unless it's not safe to do so which is crap. I like many others have risen over a speed limit or 2 over the years, but i'd be happy to state this is far from a regular activity & only when the conditions are applicable. Hence why i've had a clean license for the last 7 years & only picked up an SP30 before Xmas for doing 35 in a 30 (country road). I should have got 3 when i was hooning with others on here at Portmeirion a few years back, but more for luck i didn't, but again these were hardly dangerous speeds.

Drink Driving is dangerous full stop. Speeding is not dangerous full stop. Speeding is dangerous if applied in the wrong conditions, or by an in-experienced driver or in bad weather. Speeding as an entity does not kill people.


----------



## head_ed

Such as double white lines/rain/5 car over taking/brow of a hill :roll:


----------



## Sim

jampott said:


> Sim said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kev - of course not. But then there wouldn't be if he was driving stupidly (around a roundabout in Newport?) :roll: and lost it there either.
> 
> I guess we'll never get a proper understanding of how many avoidable accidents were due to drink, and how many to people driving like twats, or driving tired, but I'm sure all are pretty equal on the grand scheme of things.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd hazard an educated guess Tim, that far more people are affected by death or injury due to drink driving, rather than speeding or driving tired (would include drugs in the drink total).
> 
> Going back to my point, i'm perhaps OTT with my hate for drink driving, but i feel i have every right due to almost losing my life to one in 1985. You make a choice & every mile driven while under the influence is a dangerous mile, I like most do not speed or hoon everywhere i drive, in fact any speeding has really been focused on a track.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'd be interested in the statistics, but I would suggest that drink deaths are a much smaller proportion of the total than you seem to think.
> 
> Just as you don't hoon or speed EVERYWHERE, neither do most drink drivers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In 2003 (the latest year for which we have definite statistics), 2170 people were killed or seriously injured in drink related accidents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And how many killed / seriously injured IN TOTAL that year?
Click to expand...

According to Department for Transport figures the overall number of reported road casualties in 2003 were 290,607. This is a 4% reduction on the figures for 2002. 3,508 people were killed (this does not include seriously injured - so not much help for a comparision), a 2% increase on the previous year.


----------



## jampott

> Drink Driving is dangerous full stop. Speeding is not dangerous full stop. Speeding is dangerous if applied in the wrong conditions, or by an in-experienced driver or in bad weather. Speeding as an entity does not kill people.


Drink Driving isn't dangerous FULL STOP. Its obviously much more of a risk to yourself and other road users, but calling it "dangerous" is a generalisation, especially if you try and claim that speeding ISN'T dangerous FULL STOP.

Speeding, as an entity, DOES kill people. Misjudging your speed going into a bend or approaching an obstacle can result in death. The famous speeding ads on telly tell us that a child hit at "x" speed has a far worse prognosis than a child hit at "y". The only difference there is the SPEED.

The fact that people are able to drive whilst over the limit, yet manage not to hit anything is exactly the same as someone who deliberately exceeds the speed limit, and likewise doesn't cause an accident...

The difference being, if you speed, drive dangerously and DON'T cause an accident, you'll get hit with a fine and a few points. If you drink and drive, and similarly DON'T cause an accident, the penalty will be the same as if you did, and will be pretty severe.

Seeing as the repercussions of both speeding and drink-driving can be largely similar, is this necessarily right?


----------



## jampott

head_ed said:


> Such as double white lines/rain/5 car over taking/brow of a hill :roll:


Amazing, isn't it...

Perhaps if you're audacious enough, and laugh about it enough afterwards, it can't have been dangerous... :lol:


----------



## jampott

Sim said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sim said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kev - of course not. But then there wouldn't be if he was driving stupidly (around a roundabout in Newport?) :roll: and lost it there either.
> 
> I guess we'll never get a proper understanding of how many avoidable accidents were due to drink, and how many to people driving like twats, or driving tired, but I'm sure all are pretty equal on the grand scheme of things.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd hazard an educated guess Tim, that far more people are affected by death or injury due to drink driving, rather than speeding or driving tired (would include drugs in the drink total).
> 
> Going back to my point, i'm perhaps OTT with my hate for drink driving, but i feel i have every right due to almost losing my life to one in 1985. You make a choice & every mile driven while under the influence is a dangerous mile, I like most do not speed or hoon everywhere i drive, in fact any speeding has really been focused on a track.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'd be interested in the statistics, but I would suggest that drink deaths are a much smaller proportion of the total than you seem to think.
> 
> Just as you don't hoon or speed EVERYWHERE, neither do most drink drivers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In 2003 (the latest year for which we have definite statistics), 2170 people were killed or seriously injured in drink related accidents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And how many killed / seriously injured IN TOTAL that year?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to Department for Transport figures the overall number of reported road casualties in 2003 were 290,607. This is a 4% reduction on the figures for 2002. 3,508 people were killed (this does not include seriously injured - so not much help for a comparision), a 2% increase on the previous year.
Click to expand...

So, drink related deaths and serious injuries currently run at under 1% of the total.


----------



## DGW131

w7pmc
r1
scoTTy
kmpowell

way way OTT :x my 2p


----------



## jdn

An interesting thread.

Firstly, repsect to admitting this on a public forum. That does need guts, and may hopefully be a bit cathartic for you.

I think this does demonstrate the added emotive element to drunk driving. It is interesting how this thread has provoked such debate and criticism, yet the following quote over in the flame room has not...



V6 TT said:


> Thanks, it's got 2,600 on it and being severly thrashed, it's just so addictive - 171mph in the book but I'm sure I read 182mph off the speedo the other day! (only car that's fancied a play was an RS6 Avant but bit of a bugger being limited to that magic 155 I rekon - all in good fun though  )


Driving while drunk and driving at 182mph on a public road are both equally stupid, dangerous and likely to kill in my opinion. Those that claim a clear road, good conditions etc. are deluding themselves as to how quickly trouble would arrive at such speeds.

If V6 TT had been caught, would - or should - he deserve the same punishment as L8_Orgy?


----------



## jampott

jdn said:


> An interesting thread.
> 
> Firstly, repsect to admitting this on a public forum. That does need guts, and may hopefully be a bit cathartic for you.
> 
> I think this does demonstrate the added emotive element to drunk driving. It is interesting how this thread has provoked such debate and criticism, yet the following quote over in the flame room has not...
> 
> 
> 
> V6 TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, it's got 2,600 on it and being severly thrashed, it's just so addictive - 171mph in the book but I'm sure I read 182mph off the speedo the other day! (only car that's fancied a play was an RS6 Avant but bit of a bugger being limited to that magic 155 I rekon - all in good fun though  )
> 
> 
> 
> Driving while drunk and driving at 182mph on a public road are both equally stupid, dangerous and likely to kill in my opinion. Those that claim a clear road, good conditions etc. are deluding themselves as to how quickly trouble would arrive at such speeds.
> 
> If V6 TT had been caught, would - or should - he deserve the same punishment as L8_Orgy?
Click to expand...

See my point earlier. Crimes and punishments...

Fact is, most of us aren't in a position to criticise speeders, as we do it ourselves. The best we can manage is criticism of "racers" - and even that we're bored of saying...

Drunk driving isn't a subject that has come up, involving another forum member, so hasn't had the same sort of airplay I guess.


----------



## L8_0RGY

JDN - the reason no one has decided to attack V6 TT is that their all busy over here putting forward their attacks on me.

171mph is quite a speed to get up to but who are we to talk, we buy expensive and fast cars for a reason and Dean (i think his name is) would have to take the consequences if he was caught the same way I had to.


----------



## Kell

W7 PMC said:


> Slightly over the top i think.
> 
> I've never been banned for speeding, never been banned for any offence. When i was much much younger, i certainly was guilty of speeding a little more than i should have, but all offences back then were 35 in a 30, 46 in a 40 & got an 84 on the motorway, so hardly a dangerous speed demon am i.
> 
> As for "i only speed when it's safe to do so" that's totally out of context, assuming i always drive very fast unless it's not safe to do so which is crap. I like many others have risen over a speed limit or 2 over the years, but i'd be happy to state this is far from a regular activity & only when the conditions are applicable. Hence why i've had a clean license for the last 7 years & only picked up an SP30 before Xmas for doing 35 in a 30 (country road). I should have got 3 when i was hooning with others on here at Portmeirion a few years back, but more for luck i didn't, but again these were hardly dangerous speeds.
> 
> Drink Driving is dangerous full stop. Speeding is not dangerous full stop. Speeding is dangerous if applied in the wrong conditions, or by an in-experienced driver or in bad weather. Speeding as an entity does not kill people.


I owe you an apology then Paul - I thought I'd read somewhere that you'd either been banned or had totted up enough points so that your next points would have meant you were banned on two occasions. Must be someone else.

And by the comment "I only speed when it's safe to do so" I didn't mean that you (or anyone else as this wasn't directed at one person in particular that you ALWAYS speed when you think it's safe. It's just that why should you (again a collective term) speed when you think it's safe to do so despite the fact that someone has already said it's illegal?

Don't get me wrong - I regularlay drive at 90 on the motorways, but don't speed through town. That's MY definition of safe, but it isn't currently the government's. So, I can't very well shake my head at people that do a ton on the motorway just because it's more illegal than my illegalness.

Now I know drink driving impairs your ability to react - and also makes you more likely to do something stupid in the first place. But I'd bet that there are hundreds, if not thousands of people who drive while over the limit every day and nothing untoward happens. So saying Drink Driving is dangerous full stop is probably not true. It's certainly more dangerous than driving sober, however.

I'm not saying that I agree with what he did (I don;t) - nor that all instances of speeding are dangerous (they're not) - just that sometimes you have to let people learn from their mistakes and be thankful it wasn't worse.

And the first offence you noted above is the one they're trying to crack down on most - the old at 35 mph twice as many children will die in an impact than at 30mph. :?

So Rupert was twice the legal limit and was more likely to cause a crash. You were 5mph over the legal limit and twice as likely to kill a pedestrian had you hit them. Six of one...half a dozen of the other.


----------



## L8_0RGY

Kell said:


> So Rupert was twice the legal limit and was more likely to cause a crash. You were 5mph over the legal limit and twice as likely to kill a pedestrian had you hit them. Six of one...half a dozen of the other.


True, but for claritys sake, twice the limit is 70, I was 61.

No doubt this will ensue another 3 pages of bickering but just wanted to clarify this.

You should've seen the bloke before me in Court whose reading was 135, had no insurance, no driving licence, no MOT AND had crashed into another car.

I think that case really IS something to get wound up about.


----------



## jampott

L8_0RGY said:


> Kell said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Rupert was twice the legal limit and was more likely to cause a crash. You were 5mph over the legal limit and twice as likely to kill a pedestrian had you hit them. Six of one...half a dozen of the other.
> 
> 
> 
> True, but for claritys sake, twice the limit is 70, I was 61.
> 
> No doubt this will ensue another 3 pages of bickering but just wanted to clarify this.
> 
> You should've seen the bloke before me in Court whose reading was 135, had no insurance, no driving licence, no MOT AND had crashed into another car.
> 
> I think that case really IS something to get wound up about.
Click to expand...

If I was him, I'd plead that I was too pissed to be rational, and therefore a plea of temporary insanity must be heard!

Having said that, what can they take away from him, except his freedom?


----------



## scoTTy

DGW131 said:


> w7pmc
> r1
> scoTTy
> kmpowell
> 
> way way OTT :x my 2p


You're entitled to your opinion as we are to ours. I disagree with yours in the same way you disagree with mine. It's a forum. It happens.

I hope that no one of this forum in future ever loses anyone to a dangerous driver or a drink driver.

If they do I hope they'll consider the responses made in this forum and consider that the "yeah that's ok" attitude makes it appear ok and therefore doesn't apply the stigma that I personally hope will convince all current drink drivers that it is not the way to go forward. It's only be the country at large agreeing that it's socially unacceptable will we actually move forward.


----------



## W7 PMC

Kell said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Slightly over the top i think.
> 
> I've never been banned for speeding, never been banned for any offence. When i was much much younger, i certainly was guilty of speeding a little more than i should have, but all offences back then were 35 in a 30, 46 in a 40 & got an 84 on the motorway, so hardly a dangerous speed demon am i.
> 
> As for "i only speed when it's safe to do so" that's totally out of context, assuming i always drive very fast unless it's not safe to do so which is crap. I like many others have risen over a speed limit or 2 over the years, but i'd be happy to state this is far from a regular activity & only when the conditions are applicable. Hence why i've had a clean license for the last 7 years & only picked up an SP30 before Xmas for doing 35 in a 30 (country road). I should have got 3 when i was hooning with others on here at Portmeirion a few years back, but more for luck i didn't, but again these were hardly dangerous speeds.
> 
> Drink Driving is dangerous full stop. Speeding is not dangerous full stop. Speeding is dangerous if applied in the wrong conditions, or by an in-experienced driver or in bad weather. Speeding as an entity does not kill people.
> 
> 
> 
> I owe you an apology then Paul - I thought I'd read somewhere that you'd either been banned or had totted up enough points so that your next points would have meant you were banned on two occasions. Must be someone else.
> 
> And by the comment "I only speed when it's safe to do so" I didn't mean that you (or anyone else as this wasn't directed at one person in particular that you ALWAYS speed when you think it's safe. It's just that why should you (again a collective term) speed when you think it's safe to do so despite the fact that someone has already said it's illegal?
> 
> Don't get me wrong - I regularlay drive at 90 on the motorways, but don't speed through town. That's MY definition of safe, but it isn't currently the government's. So, I can't very well shake my head at people that do a ton on the motorway just because it's more illegal than my illegalness.
> 
> Now I know drink driving impairs your ability to react - and also makes you more likely to do something stupid in the first place. But I'd bet that there are hundreds, if not thousands of people who drive while over the limit every day and nothing untoward happens. So saying Drink Driving is dangerous full stop is probably not true. It's certainly more dangerous than driving sober, however.
> 
> I'm not saying that I agree with what he did (I don;t) - nor that all instances of speeding are dangerous (they're not) - just that sometimes you have to let people learn from their mistakes and be thankful it wasn't worse.
> 
> And the first offence you noted above is the one they're trying to crack down on most - the old at 35 mph twice as many children will die in an impact than at 30mph. :?
> 
> So Rupert was twice the legal limit and was more likely to cause a crash. You were 5mph over the legal limit and twice as likely to kill a pedestrian had you hit them. Six of one...half a dozen of the other.
Click to expand...

No need for an apology, as you're correct that i did many many years ago attend court for totting up due to speeding tickets, but avoided a ban due to the circumstances, however you thought i'd been banned which i hadn't. I'm not defending my actions back then, but certainly would laugh at anyone who compares what i did to drink driving, but anyone is entitled to their opinion. I won't go into detail, but all those speedings were sp's & none in built up areas, they were motorway & a couple in roadworks (same day) when cameras 1st started appearing, plus i was in my early 20's & a little niave at the time.

Also the government campaign states at 40 you're twice as likely to kill than at 30, no mention in their campaign of 35.

However, everyone is right that speeding is not clever & is an offence, however i think if we take a random poll of those who have ever broken the speed limit & those who have ever driven under the influence, i know where i'd be putting my money.

Perhaps 100% have broken the speed limit & single digits as to those who drink & drive.


----------



## jampott

> Perhaps 100% have broken the speed limit & single digits as to those who drink & drive.


But the fact that we all do it doesn't make it "right", any more than it making Drink Driving any "worse"...


----------



## genocidalduck

jampott said:


> Perhaps 100% have broken the speed limit & single digits as to those who drink & drive.
> 
> 
> 
> But the fact that we all do it doesn't make it "right", any more than it making Drink Driving any "worse"...
Click to expand...

But then someone who has broken the speed limit by a few mph are less likely to mount kerbs and drift onto the wrong side of the road. Compared to someone that has had as little as a couple of pints. Who is travelling within the speed limit.


----------



## jampott

genocidalduck said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps 100% have broken the speed limit & single digits as to those who drink & drive.
> 
> 
> 
> But the fact that we all do it doesn't make it "right", any more than it making Drink Driving any "worse"...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But then someone who has broken the speed limit by a few mph are less likely to mount kerbs and drift onto the wrong side of the road. Compared to someone that has had as little as a couple of pints. Who is travelling within the speed limit.
Click to expand...

Someone who is tired will do precisely those things, though...

But my point was, speeding is obviously acceptable to Paul, partly because he thinks everyone has done it... and that drink driving must be wrong because NOBODY does it.

They're both wrong, and their "wrongness" has nothing to do with the numbers of people who do them.

They also both contribute towards accidents and increase the amount of danger on the roads.

I don't understand how someone can blatantly ignore the rules of the road that suit HIM/HER, yet be so heartfelt about other rules and their application to others.


----------



## genocidalduck

jampott said:


> genocidalduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps 100% have broken the speed limit & single digits as to those who drink & drive.
> 
> 
> 
> But the fact that we all do it doesn't make it "right", any more than it making Drink Driving any "worse"...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But then someone who has broken the speed limit by a few mph are less likely to mount kerbs and drift onto the wrong side of the road. Compared to someone that has had as little as a couple of pints. Who is travelling within the speed limit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Someone who is tired will do precisely those things, though...
> 
> But my point was, speeding is obviously acceptable to Paul, partly because he thinks everyone has done it... and that drink driving must be wrong because NOBODY does it.
> 
> They're both wrong, and their "wrongness" has nothing to do with the numbers of people who do them.
> 
> They also both contribute towards accidents and increase the amount of danger on the roads.
> 
> I don't understand how someone can blatantly ignore the rules of the road that suit HIM/HER, yet be so heartfelt about other rules and their application to others.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure about people that are tired....Granted on a motorway a tired person is as dangerous as a drunk driver. Esp at night with not so many cars on the road. But around town i would say that drink driving is by far more dangerous. My thinking is a tired driver around town has more things going on to keep his attention. However i admit i am just speculating as ive never had more than a pint and drove in the same day.


----------



## W7 PMC

jampott said:


> head_ed said:
> 
> 
> 
> Such as double white lines/rain/5 car over taking/brow of a hill :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing, isn't it...
> 
> Perhaps if you're audacious enough, and laugh about it enough afterwards, it can't have been dangerous... :lol:
Click to expand...

That's amusing. Now who's being hollier than though. I've never said i'm the worlds best or most perfect driver, but i'm not a drink driver & never will be, so don't for a moment compare the 2.

It's like comparing a burgler & a rapist (not saying L8 is a rapist). Both wrong, both illegal, but the 2nd is a little further down the un-accpetable behaviour road than the 1st.

Like i said before, i don't give a fcuk how many of you think that speeding is just as bad as drink driving, if you beleive that then drink yourselves stupid & cull a few people into the bargain.

Moral high ground or not, i gave my opinion based on my opinion & experiences & as far as i'm concerned i'm satisfied with that.

L8 will pay his price & i fully expect him to learn his lesson, but it's laughable how we almost all speed at some point & yet we now equate ourselves to drink drivers (well some of you do anyhow).


----------



## W7 PMC

jampott said:


> Perhaps 100% have broken the speed limit & single digits as to those who drink & drive.
> 
> 
> 
> But the fact that we all do it doesn't make it "right", any more than it making Drink Driving any "worse"...
Click to expand...

That's bollox. I have NEVER said speeding is "right" or think it's very clever, but my point stands that probably 100% of drivers have at some point broken the speed limit but the same percentage i feel does not apply to drink driving.


----------



## W7 PMC

jampott said:


> genocidalduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps 100% have broken the speed limit & single digits as to those who drink & drive.
> 
> 
> 
> But the fact that we all do it doesn't make it "right", any more than it making Drink Driving any "worse"...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But then someone who has broken the speed limit by a few mph are less likely to mount kerbs and drift onto the wrong side of the road. Compared to someone that has had as little as a couple of pints. Who is travelling within the speed limit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Someone who is tired will do precisely those things, though...
> 
> But my point was, speeding is obviously acceptable to Paul, partly because he thinks everyone has done it... and that drink driving must be wrong because NOBODY does it.
> 
> They're both wrong, and their "wrongness" has nothing to do with the numbers of people who do them.
> 
> They also both contribute towards accidents and increase the amount of danger on the roads.
> 
> I don't understand how someone can blatantly ignore the rules of the road that suit HIM/HER, yet be so heartfelt about other rules and their application to others.
Click to expand...

Tim, please read back through all my posts & quote exactly where i've said speeding is right or acceptable?? I have said i've done it & the majority of the driving population have done it at some point, however i've not said it's acceptable. If you honestly believe the 2 offences are totally equal, then fair enough, you've either done it yourself so can justify it to yourself or you have never been affected directly by the consequences.


----------



## mighTy Tee

genocidalduck said:


> I'm not so sure about people that are tired....Granted on a motorway a tired person is as dangerous as a drunk driver.


Good example - I flew overnight back from a business trip in Africa 12 days ago. Because of a major problem at the office (only 4 people work in my office), I got home, had a wash and a shave and set off to work (5 miles).

En-route I drove through a red light on a pedestrian crossing! The only thing I can say is the crossing had been cleared and I was concentrating on the pedestrians not the lights. BUT if I had not been tired I would not have made that mistake.

Believe me that mistake has really shaken me, and I would say now in hindsight I was a danger on the road in the same way as a drunk driver or a speeding driver is. Oh and my speed at the time 25mph.


----------



## thejepster

genocidalduck said:


> I'm not so sure about people that are tired....Granted on a motorway a tired person is as dangerous as a drunk driver. Esp at night with not so many cars on the road. But around town i would say that drink driving is by far more dangerous. My thinking is a tired driver around town has more things going on to keep his attention. However i admit i am just speculating as ive never had more than a pint and drove in the same day.


Unfortunately in town, there will also be more things that the tired driver will miss, more pedestrians and things that aren't as predictable... Loughborough Unidid a study that showed tired drivers were just as impaired as a driver over the drink-drive limit and only 20% of accidents were on monotonous roads... something to bear in mind when doing a long shift in the taxi.... :?


----------



## genocidalduck

thejepster said:


> genocidalduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not so sure about people that are tired....Granted on a motorway a tired person is as dangerous as a drunk driver. Esp at night with not so many cars on the road. But around town i would say that drink driving is by far more dangerous. My thinking is a tired driver around town has more things going on to keep his attention. However i admit i am just speculating as ive never had more than a pint and drove in the same day.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately in town, there will also be more things that the tired driver will miss, more pedestrians and things that aren't as predictable... Loughborough Unidid a study that showed tired drivers were just as impaired as a driver over the drink-drive limit and only 20% of accidents were on monotonous roads... something to bear in mind when doing a long shift in the taxi.... :?
Click to expand...

I stand corrected.....Touch wood despite being tired on occasion whilst working ive done around a million miles( Majority around town) without a accident. I used to find (as these days i dont drive as much and tend to be in the office) that if i was tired around town i was fine. Not a problem but as soon as i got on the motorway my eyes suddenly became heavy.


----------



## thejepster

genocidalduck said:


> I stand corrected.....Touch wood despite being tired on occasion whilst working ive done around a million miles( Majority around town) without a accident. I used to find (as these days i dont drive as much and tend to be in the office) that if i was tired around town i was fine. Not a problem but as soon as i got on the motorway my eyes suddenly became heavy.


Touch wood indeed... and I hope it stays that way for you!


----------



## r1

Interesting thread this one.

Seems to be two camps - people like myself (in a suprising minority) who see L8s actions as reprehensible and the vast majority who see it almost the same as speeding.

I can't accept that drinking & driving at 75% over the limit can be considered in the same light as someone speeding for many reasons. An obvious and overwhelming one is the following:

If you happen to be speeding, and lets face it most of us do, and you drive into a higher risk area i.e. village, town, busy road, crossroads, area of poor visibility etc etc etc you can slow down within a matter of seconds. You are then within the laws definiton of 'safe and controlled'.

You cannot take any preventative action if you're driving pissed.

SO it really doesn't wash to start drawing comparisons to speeders. I hope that no-one here is put in the situation where personal circumstances change their mind. :?


----------



## Kell

r1 said:


> Interesting thread this one.
> 
> Seems to be two camps - people like myself (in a suprising minority) who see L8s actions as reprehensible and the vast majority who see it almost the same as speeding.
> 
> I can't accept that drinking & driving at 75% over the limit can be considered in the same light as someone speeding for many reasons. An obvious and overwhelming one is the following:
> 
> If you happen to be speeding, and lets face it most of us do, and you drive into a higher risk area i.e. village, town, busy road, crossroads, area of poor visibility etc etc etc you can slow down within a matter of seconds. You are then within the laws definiton of 'safe and controlled'.
> 
> You cannot take any preventative action if you're driving pissed.
> 
> SO it really doesn't wash to start drawing comparisons to speeders. I hope that no-one here is put in the situation where personal circumstances change their mind. :?


I know where you're coming from with regard to the fact that you can slow down - but that's not the issue.

Innapropriate use of speed is probably the cause of more accidents than drink driving - but that's probably just because I reckon more people do it. Not sure how it would compare in terms of a precentage of people that do it.

At the end of the day, all I was trying to say to Rupert was that I do feel for him - but I still think he deserves what he got. I donpt think I ever said otherwise - though it may come across as that.

I just hope that he learns a lesson from it.


----------



## dee

DGW131 said:


> w7pmc
> r1
> scoTTy
> kmpowell
> 
> way way OTT :x my 2p


ditto!

speeding kills - just because it is socially more acceptable that drunk driving doesnt give you the right to be hollier than thou. Claim you dont speed and I'm happy to follow you around with a video camera - shouldnt take more than a couple of hours.... :roll:

r1 & similar - sorry for your loss, but I'm sure there are a hell of a lot more people who have lost loved ones due to speeding.
I have lost non smoking friends to cancer of the throat/lungs from secondary inhalation - just because smoking isnt illegal doesnt mean its okay.

Jampott
Kell

100% well said, well rounded arguments!

L8 - in no way condone what you did, it is wrong to drink and drive - Its a shame you had to learn the hard way, glad no one was hurt and I'm sorry for your predicament..


----------



## scoTTy

dee said:


> DGW131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> w7pmc
> r1
> scoTTy
> kmpowell
> 
> way way OTT :x my 2p
> 
> 
> 
> ditto!
> 
> speeding kills - just because it is socially more acceptable that drunk driving doesnt give you the right to be hollier than thou. Claim you dont speed and I'm happy to follow you around with a video camera - shouldnt take more than a couple of hours.... :roll:
Click to expand...

Who's claimed they don't speed? Who's claiming to be hollier than thou? You can follow me with a camera for as long as you like and you won't catch me speeding....until I make a sober and considered decision on when and where to do it. It won't be in a 20/30/40 etc limit.

I'm amazed that people don't see the difference between making a sober considered judgement compared to driving down the road whilst pissed.

Speeding's not legal and if caught then you take the wrap. Fine. It seems all those throwing stones at the few of us who haven't offered sympathy are the holier than though ones. Not only do you not drink and drive (as in the vast majority of car drivers) but you never ever speed ! I'm sure you wouldn't be having a pop at those of us that admit that on occasions we do as that would make you just a bit of a hypocrite.

I'm still amazed how many people don't seem to view drink driving as a heinous crime.


----------



## scoTTy

p.s. I have no probs with us all having different opinions but any one who thinks my comments are "way way OTT", could they please quote them as I can't see any.


----------



## dee

scoTTy said:


> I'm still amazed how many people don't seem to view drink driving as a heinous crime.


can you quote anyone saying its okay to drink drive :roll: :?


----------



## scoTTy

No but then again that's not what I said. You seem very good today at posting what you thought that I wrote rather than what I actually did write. Putting your spin on my comments won't help this thread :roll:


----------



## dee

scoTTy said:


> You seem very good today at posting what you thought that I wrote rather than what I actually did write. Putting your spin on my comments won't help this thread :roll:


 :?: care to explain :?:


----------



## Loz180

I'm not in any camp, nor camp in any way :lol:

I just feel sorry for the bloke. never met him but seen is posts on here so feel I can relate to him.

If he had mown down the mother of two kids who was walking home with a bag of chips from her late shift at the factory, I'd feel more sorry for him as he'd have even more anguish to deal with.

Feeling sorry for him is not saying, "I don't care that you did wrong" its - for my part - just saying that, "hey, none of us are perfect and I am sorry you've had a bad experience".

Of course I hope he learns from it but I don't honestly think that really needs saying.

L8, I feel for you, mate. Just keep on living and learning and life will be what you make it.

I think thats my 2p spent now. :?


----------



## jdn

scoTTy said:


> dee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DGW131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> w7pmc
> r1
> scoTTy
> kmpowell
> 
> way way OTT :x my 2p
> 
> 
> 
> ditto!
> 
> speeding kills - just because it is socially more acceptable that drunk driving doesnt give you the right to be hollier than thou. Claim you dont speed and I'm happy to follow you around with a video camera - shouldnt take more than a couple of hours.... :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who's claimed they don't speed? Who's claiming to be hollier than thou? You can follow me with a camera for as long as you like and you won't catch me speeding....until I make a sober and considered decision on when and where to do it. It won't be in a 20/30/40 etc limit.
> 
> I'm amazed that people don't see the difference between making a sober considered judgement compared to driving down the road whilst pissed.
> 
> Speeding's not legal and if caught then you take the wrap. Fine. It seems all those throwing stones at the few of us who haven't offered sympathy are the holier than though ones. Not only do you not drink and drive (as in the vast majority of car drivers) but you never ever speed ! I'm sure you wouldn't be having a pop at those of us that admit that on occasions we do as that would make you just a bit of a hypocrite.
> 
> I'm still amazed how many people don't seem to view drink driving as a heinous crime.
Click to expand...

I'm in the heinous crime camp.

I just also beleive that driving at ludicrous speeds on public roads is also a heinous crime.

Easier to define 'pissed' than 'ludicrous speed' I suppose, but anything over 100mph is plain stupid, and over 150mph is moronic, particularly when justified as 'safe' given the setting. No more 'safe' than 'a couple of beers'.


----------



## W7 PMC

dee said:


> DGW131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> w7pmc
> r1
> scoTTy
> kmpowell
> 
> way way OTT :x my 2p
> 
> 
> 
> ditto!
> 
> speeding kills - just because it is socially more acceptable that drunk driving doesnt give you the right to be hollier than thou. Claim you dont speed and I'm happy to follow you around with a video camera - shouldnt take more than a couple of hours.... :roll:
> 
> r1 & similar - sorry for your loss, but I'm sure there are a hell of a lot more people who have lost loved ones due to speeding.
> I have lost non smoking friends to cancer of the throat/lungs from secondary inhalation - just because smoking isnt illegal doesnt mean its okay.
> 
> Jampott
> Kell
> 
> 100% well said, well rounded arguments!
> 
> L8 - in no way condone what you did, it is wrong to drink and drive - Its a shame you had to learn the hard way, glad no one was hurt and I'm sorry for your predicament..
Click to expand...

I think you'll find it's just that you agree with them, not others.

All have made their point & all are entitled. I don't agree with you, but that neither makes me more right or you more wrong, just different.

The Law fortunatley sides with me (& others) that Drink Driving is far more serious an offence than speeding, so whether people on here don't agree with it/me/us that is of no interest. The law is not severe enough, but that again is only my opinion.


----------



## Leg

Its not even up for discussion. The guys remorse isnt a good thing, its the least he can do. He wouldnt have been remorsful if he had got home without being caught would he!

The fact that he hasnt run anyone over and killed them is PURE LUCK as is every drink driver who gets away with it or just gets pulled over. The difference between someone who is pissed and kills and someone who is pissed and doesnt is purely chance.

I dont even have a pint and drive.

Ill tell you why.

Not because of the bans, not the fines, not even the stigma of drink driving we have these days because of very effective marketing campaigns.

You like a drink, cant be arsed to get a cab or walk. Previous 5 times nothing happened but tonights the night gentlemen.

You're driving home pissed enough to be double the limit, you lose control, you plough into a woman and 2 kids walking up the street.

Turns out to be your own wife and kids.

Try imagining that as you look at your car and STILL getting in and driving. Makes a difference when its your family and not some blank faces you dont know eh!

And anyone who says speeding is as dangerous as being pissed behind the wheel is talking bollocks. If so, how come you dont get banned for 40 in a 30 eh? Or 85 on the motorway?

If you are going for a drink and you can afford to run a TT you can afford a cab, get a cab, plan ahead. Run my family over and a bans the least of your worries.

In my opinion of course.



Right im off for a pint now, wheres the car keys, oops no re read the post and, taaaxi!


----------



## scoTTy

Well said Leg.



dee said:


> scoTTy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You seem very good today at posting what you thought that I wrote rather than what I actually did write. Putting your spin on my comments won't help this thread :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> :?: care to explain :?:
Click to expand...

Sure. Just take a look at my comment and your response.



dee said:


> scoTTy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still amazed how many people don't seem to view drink driving as a heinous crime.
> 
> 
> 
> can you quote anyone saying its okay to drink drive :roll: :?
Click to expand...

Not what I said at all. :roll:


----------



## IanWest

scoTTy said:


> dee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DGW131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> w7pmc
> r1
> scoTTy
> kmpowell
> 
> way way OTT :x my 2p
> 
> 
> 
> ditto!
> 
> Who's claimed they don't speed? Who's claiming to be hollier than thou? You can follow me with a camera for as long as you like and you won't catch me speeding....until I make a sober and considered decision on when and where to do it. It won't be in a 20/30/40 etc limit.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I was taking a back seat until then. You have never sped in a 20/30/40 limit- do me a favour! Reims 2002?!! Through every village. Or doesn't France count? Sorry, make a point but don't ruin all credibility with that sort of statement.

For the record, I think that he got what he deserved but get off the soapbox please.


----------



## scoTTy

Some one else who knows better. 8)

I said "I don't" not "I never have."

Why don't we just agree that I'm the worst person in the world. Far worse than any drunk driver then we can all move on.

Everyone happy now? :roll:

It's quite funny that people seem to feel more strongly about my views/comments than someone driving whilst pissed. :lol:

Whatever :-*


----------



## genocidalduck

Maybe someone should lobby parliment to let drink dirvers off and ban speeders for 14 months. :roll: . But like i said before you dont see speeding drivers unless they are doing stupid speeds or are site at driving mounting kerbs and drifting onto the wrong side of the road. But you do see pissed drivers doing those things at less than the speed limit.


----------



## Leg

> For the record, I think that he got what he deserved but get off the soapbox please.


lmao what r u on about. He posted that he was a prick and drove when pissed and expected sympathy cos (boo hoo) hes so sorry. How many times had the prat got away with it? What was gonna stop him? The 'pigs' as he so elequently calls them? Killing someones son/daughter/wife/kids/father/mother? A visit from the fairies?

Oh no, he was gonna go home, wake up the next morning and say 'well I do declare, what I did last night was out of order and Ill never do it again'

Was he fuck.

He posted.

He put the soapbox there for people to climb on.

THATS what a forum is ffs, a soapbox.

Bloody liberals.

Ooh Leg posted a nasty again, buy some tissues already. lol.


----------



## Loz180

Leg, you are a card.

Folks. lets not fall out over someones silly mistake and subsequent misfortune. He is not claiming to be a saint, he's gonna do his bird like a good con. the screws are gonna instill ritual rapes and beatings. Now can we all go to bed knowing everything is right with the world :?

Surely nobody came here just to fall out with other members?

The holier than thou brigade have said their peace. let their future conduct speak its authenticity.

The "liberal" flip floppers have said their bit. Likewise lets see of they turn into micheal ryan when its their mother or child who is hit by some pisshead in a stolen xr3i.

less speculation, more good fun TT bhanter, please.  :-*


----------



## nutts

I want to be clever and write something witty and/or inciteful, but I can't :?

So fwiw, it took a huge dose of guts for L8 to post up and face what he must have known would come.

And yes, if he had mown someone... anyone down, I don't think we would have seen him again.

The problem with drink is that it makes you drunk :roll: and when drunk, you lose control of your normal self. How many people would say "I'll never drink and drive"? Then go out in their car, drink with the FULL intention of getting taxi home... but for some strange and inexplicable reason you find yourself thinking "Hang-on, it's only a mile or so" or "but I've only had a couple of pints" or "what could happen... it's 11.30pm". How many of those people when sober wouldn't even entertain those thoughts of driving when drinking? That's the problem with alcohol... unlike speeding. Speeding is down to the driver to make that choice... he hasn't got any drink or drugs in his system to dull that morality... when speeding the driver is 100% to blame.

fwiw imho there should be a zero limit of alcohol when driving.

Also, as a discussion point... if driving at 150 is SO much worse than driink driving... why would the 150 speeding offence get media attention when L8's driving ban wouldn't?


----------



## saint

> So fwiw, it took a huge dose of guts for L8 to post up and face what he must have known would come.


Said that exact same thing to Brett this afternoon - brave indeed - and on a Friday too!!


----------



## nutts

saint said:


> So fwiw, it took a huge dose of guts for L8 to post up and face what he must have known would come.
> 
> 
> 
> Said that exact same thing to Brett this afternoon - brave indeed - and on a Friday too!!
Click to expand...

Either that or he was still pissed :lol:


----------



## saint

Silly man to take such a risk - but alcohol does that to people.

"misfortune" no - "mistake" yes.

"good for you for being open about it" - praise where praise is due.... and here that is not.

Leg - don't f*cking swear this is not the Flame Room.

L8 - I wish I had a bit of extra cahs to buy the car :? that's two on here I'd want to buy if I could afford.


----------



## dj c225

Loz180 said:


> I'm not in any camp, nor camp in any way :lol:
> 
> I just feel sorry for the bloke. never met him but seen is posts on here so feel I can relate to him.
> 
> If he had mown down the mother of two kids who was walking home with a bag of chips from her late shift at the factory, I'd feel more sorry for him as he'd have even more anguish to deal with.
> 
> Feeling sorry for him is not saying, "I don't care that you did wrong" its - for my part - just saying that, "hey, none of us are perfect and I am sorry you've had a bad experience".
> 
> Of course I hope he learns from it but I don't honestly think that really needs saying.
> 
> L8, I feel for you, mate. Just keep on living and learning and life will be what you make it.
> 
> I think thats my 2p spent now. :?


Got to agree with the above, this man always makes sense. 

L8, sorry to hear about the ban, seems like a lengthy one, a mate got done for drink driving and got 12 months or 8 months if he done the course. Seems a bit drastic.

I hope you are able to manage, do you have a gf that drives?


----------



## Leg

saint said:


> Leg - don't f*cking swear this is not the Flame Room.


Sorry Mum. :roll:


----------



## L8_0RGY

Leg said:


> For the record, I think that he got what he deserved but get off the soapbox please.
> 
> 
> 
> lmao what r u on about. He posted that he was a prick and drove when pissed and expected sympathy cos (boo hoo) hes so sorry. How many times had the prat got away with it? What was gonna stop him? The 'pigs' as he so elequently calls them? Killing someones son/daughter/wife/kids/father/mother? A visit from the fairies?
> 
> Oh no, he was gonna go home, wake up the next morning and say 'well I do declare, what I did last night was out of order and Ill never do it again'
> 
> Was he fuck.
> 
> He posted.
> 
> He put the soapbox there for people to climb on.
> 
> THATS what a forum is ffs, a soapbox.
> 
> Bloody liberals.
> 
> Ooh Leg posted a nasty again, buy some tissues already. lol.
Click to expand...

This post is the one that really staggers me out of the several pages that I've read. I frankly can't believe people are still posting about this. It happened a week ago, you've posted your thoughts and as a Ian West so wisely said - get off the soapbox.

You've all had your monies worth and these opinions are now personal attacks.

As I previously said I really don't care if some user on here calls me a 'prick' or asks how many times I've done it before - this was the first and only time. I don't know you and judging from your two faced responses I'm glad I don't. You ask if I'd be willing to sell parts from the TT in a normal manner and when you get the response from this you decide to slag me off. Is this how you normally treat people?

I didn't expect sympathy when I posted this, if you remember the original post was an ad for the car. I really don't care if I don't get sympathy on here as it's not what I came for and this is just an internet forum where a lot of us are faceless people, only known by our usernames and previous posts. Those who do know me have offered their help and kind thoughts.

Well done to you not having a drink ever in your life, if only we could be as holy as thou - i though have a social life and did used to drink.

Everyone else that I have mentioned this to outside of this forum has shown the reaction that seems to be the norm that the majority of users on here have and I just knew there would be the radicals who had to get their flame in.



saint said:



> L8 - I wish I had a bit of extra cahs to buy the car that's two on here I'd want to buy if I could afford.


Thanks, I wish you did to :wink:



djc225 said:


> do you have a gf that drives


I do but she hasn't driven over her before, (she's American) and am not that keen to let her behind the wheel! :roll: She's asked several times since the event but I'd rather sell it.

I've had a couple of people offer to drive me around which is great but puts them out a bit so we'll just see how the time passes


----------



## IanWest

scoTTy said:


> Some one else who knows better. 8)
> 
> I said "I don't" not "I never have."
> 
> Why don't we just agree that I'm the worst person in the world. Far worse than any drunk driver then we can all move on.
> 
> Everyone happy now? :roll:
> 
> It's quite funny that people seem to feel more strongly about my views/comments than someone driving whilst pissed. :lol:
> 
> Whatever :-*


Mature and reasoned response there! Very impressed :wink: 
Shouldn't you have added "Minger" and "loser" after the whatever to have made it authentic?!!
But anyway back to Reims!!


----------



## Teehee

Firstly, apologies for adding to this post. FWIW I believe that L8 was wrong and he has been dealt with by the courts of the land. He lives with his punishment. End of.

My point of posting is not because of the drink driving aspect but because of the need to refer to the Police as 'Pigs'. The same resource who dealt with you possibly got sent to an RTC after dealing with the process that your incident created. I have a friend who was in the Specials and due to him attending an RTC which was littered with bodies he has suffered mental illness. Should this person (who was a volunteer) be labelled as Pig. I know you never started this term but in my opinion you are as bad as the originater for continuing the term.

I don't wish to moan but its my pet hate, along with skateboarders 

On a personal note, a few years ago I made a huge mistake (although very different circumstances) and had my 15 minutes of fame then. I will not discuss the details on a public forum because I have moved on. I lost everything - car, flat, my dream job and my family. In just under three years, I have two houses (one is a lovely little cottage), two cars, a beautiful wife and two mischievious labradors  All of this has been achieved through nothing but hard work and sheer determination to succeed. I hope that you, L8, can build your own path to new successes.

Regards

Teehee.


----------



## IanWest

Leg said:


> For the record, I think that he got what he deserved but get off the soapbox please.
> 
> 
> 
> lmao what r u on about.
> He posted.
> 
> He put the soapbox there for people to climb on.
> 
> THATS what a forum is ffs, a soapbox.
> 
> Bloody liberals.
> 
> Ooh Leg posted a nasty again, buy some tissues already. lol.
Click to expand...

I always find an argument is better won when you stick to facts, "that's all that I am on about"


----------



## Leg

Lol well for one I hadnt realised it was the same person, I posted the one about your parts on a seperate occasion, interest withdrawn. I didnt really pay attention to who had posted that other thread and it doesnt mention drink driving.

And for two, if you dont want people to get on the 'soapbox' which is what these forums are, then dont post about getting a drink drive ban. What did you expect? If you dont want discussion dont share your news with us.

You see my point is that you post 'I got caught drink driving and im really sorry' and some people are sympathetic.

If you had posted 'I got caught drink driving cos I was pissed and I ran someone over and killed them' how much sympathy do you think you would have got? If you had posted 'I got caught drink driving cos I was pissed and I hit <<insert forum members name>> 's car which was parked at the side of the road while he was in bed' exactly HOW MUCH sympathy do you think you would have got?

And my point is this - the difference between what happened to you and those 2 scenarios is pure luck.

I find it hard to be sympathetic towards you because of that and when I see people being sympathetic to you I think, I bet they wouldnt be if they were on the receiving end of a drink driver hitting their precious TT one night.

It wasnt an accident, YOU made the decision to get in the car, no one forced you. Your not thick, thats clear and you werent coerced.

Oh and funniest of all you somehow make the jump from not drink driving to not drinking at all. Does this tell us all something about your attitude towards drink driving? Probably not tbh, just a coincidence, but you do wonder.

You see I never drink and drive, because its damned dangerous, because I like my car too much, because I dont want to lose my job and subsequently house and to avoid it all you have to do is plan ahead.

However, once the cars tucked away believe me, i drink, far too much tbh but then again, its hard to smash my car up or kill anyone or even smash one of this lots TT up when im walking back from the pub, in a cab or staggering from the couch to bed.

And why you think someone who doesnt drink and drive is holy I dont know. I thought I was just not breaking the law and risking peoples lives by getting pissed and driving?

Oh I didnt call you a 'prick', I called you a 'prat'.


----------



## Leg

IanWest said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the record, I think that he got what he deserved but get off the soapbox please.
> 
> 
> 
> lmao what r u on about.
> He posted.
> 
> He put the soapbox there for people to climb on.
> 
> THATS what a forum is ffs, a soapbox.
> 
> Bloody liberals.
> 
> Ooh Leg posted a nasty again, buy some tissues already. lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I always find an argument is better won when you stick to facts, "that's all that I am on about"
Click to expand...

I quoted the soapbox comment, what are you on about get off the soapbox? It was him who invited us onto it and chose the subject for debate now hes had enough, thats not how forums work.


----------



## scoTTy

:lol: 
Where did this come from ?


> Well done to you not having a drink ever in your life, if only we could be as holy as thou - i though have a social life and did used to drink.


It sounds like you mix social life with drink with driving.

Maybe that's where we differ. I don't have to drink to have a social life (1 week in 3 I don't drink as I'm oncall plus I didn't drink for one month at the start of the year) but the rest of the time I do. However it wouldn't cross my mind to consider driving after having a drink. Not even for 1sec. Not even if I couldn't get a cab and it was pissing down. Never. But I still have a social life (admittedly more restricted since have the kiddy)

I'm certainly not even close to being "holy". I simply don't mix drinking and driving. That's all.


----------



## Kell

I'm not sure if I made myself absolutely clear in my earlier posts.

I never for one second equated driving after 10 pints with straying a little over the speed limit. My argument centered more about the fact that the more you drink, the slower your reactions and the more you speed the less time you have to react to a situation.

Of course other factors come into it, but if you can't see the logic there, then so be it. It's an argument that I'll never get you to see my side of.

One thing that did strike me last night though was this:

Would you feel more guilty because you'd killed/injured someone as a result of drink driving or excessive use of speed? There may be more social stigma attached to the former, but both involve breakign the law and taking a risk that you've judged to be worth it.

And don't get me wrong, there are no excuses for drink driving. But then there aren't really any excuses for excessive speed (and yet I do it). If Dean's post about doing 171mph on the M4 is true, then to me that's certainly no better than being almost twice the legal limit for alcohol. If anything it's worse as it's more than double the legal speed limit.


----------



## Leg

Its all about degrees.

If someone gets done for 80mph on the motorway I would be very sympathetic as thats pretty much the norm. 35 in a 30, again, shit happens.

If this guy had been a couple of points over, I would be sympathetic, maybe he made a mistake and thought 2 pints would be ok, could easily happen.

But if someone got done for 120, 130, 140, 150 etc on the motorway I would think he was a prat and he wouldnt get any sympathy. Same goes with someone this far over the limit, thats a skinful, not a couple at teatime after work and oops I made a mistake.

Mind u i dont touch any cos I would lose my job instantly but that doesnt make me an angel, Im just not prepared to risk the consequences.


----------



## Jac-in-a-Box

Kell said:


> Would you feel more guilty because you'd killed/injured someone as a result of drink driving or excessive use of speed? There may be more social stigma attached to the former, but both involve breakign the law and taking a risk that you've judged to be worth it.


The way things are going just now, there will soon be as much stigma attached to speeding as there is to drink-driving currently.

If you choose to do either the consequence's can be horrific.



Kell said:


> And don't get me wrong, there are no excuses for drink driving. But then there aren't really any excuses for excessive speed (and yet I do it)....


Agreed. We all speed when we consider there to be "little risk" or when when we think circumstances will allow us to. 
None-the-less the risk is there. The end result of choosing to accept that risk and you've made a misjudgement...?

While I don't in anyway condone DD, I do admire L8 ORGY for standing up and admitting he made a mistake, I think that takes considerable courage.
Perhaps his story should be a wake up call for those who might be tempted.

Jackie x


----------



## Dotti

2298 viewings so far


----------



## L8_0RGY

Teehee said:


> Firstly, apologies for adding to this post. FWIW I believe that L8 was wrong and he has been dealt with by the courts of the land. He lives with his punishment. End of.
> 
> My point of posting is not because of the drink driving aspect but because of the need to refer to the Police as 'Pigs'. The same resource who dealt with you possibly got sent to an RTC after dealing with the process that your incident created. I have a friend who was in the Specials and due to him attending an RTC which was littered with bodies he has suffered mental illness. Should this person (who was a volunteer) be labelled as Pig. I know you never started this term but in my opinion you are as bad as the originater for continuing the term.
> 
> I don't wish to moan but its my pet hate, along with skateboarders
> 
> On a personal note, a few years ago I made a huge mistake (although very different circumstances) and had my 15 minutes of fame then. I will not discuss the details on a public forum because I have moved on. I lost everything - car, flat, my dream job and my family. In just under three years, I have two houses (one is a lovely little cottage), two cars, a beautiful wife and two mischievious labradors  All of this has been achieved through nothing but hard work and sheer determination to succeed. I hope that you, L8, can build your own path to new successes.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Teehee.


Apologies if you don't agree with my terminology but the way they treated me was out of order, I have other reasons to be annoyed with the Force as when I have had solid proof in the past that someone commited a crime against me (i will not divulge) they did NOTHING whatsoever, even though a friend and I had compiled all the evidence for them.


----------



## L8_0RGY

Leg said:


> Oh and funniest of all you somehow make the jump from not drink driving to not drinking at all. Does this tell us all something about your attitude towards drink driving? Probably not tbh, just a coincidence, but you do wonder.


I actually agree with part of your post which has suprised me!

Again, why I feel the need to explain my life away on here I don't know, but as previously explained after the incident that happened I really don't feel like drinking - you may think what you like, some may call it remorse, some may call it something else but to me the thought of an alcoholic beverage really doesn't appeal to me anymore.

A coincidence you say - not a coincidence, but a result of an action I am not proud of that has been displayed previously.


----------



## Leg

L8_0RGY said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and funniest of all you somehow make the jump from not drink driving to not drinking at all. Does this tell us all something about your attitude towards drink driving? Probably not tbh, just a coincidence, but you do wonder.
> 
> 
> 
> I actually agree with part of your post which has suprised me!
> 
> Again, why I feel the need to explain my life away on here I don't know, but as previously explained after the incident that happened I really don't feel like drinking - you may think what you like, some may call it remorse, some may call it something else but to me the thought of an alcoholic beverage really doesn't appeal to me anymore.
> 
> A coincidence you say - not a coincidence, but a result of an action I am not proud of that has been displayed previously.
Click to expand...

I didnt say that was a coincidence that you didnt want a drink after the incident. I never even mentioned that.

Look that admin lads gonna lock this no doubt, hes locking all the other threads that you and I have posted in so I guess this will be also soon. U drank, u drove, uve lost ure license, u posted on here, that invites comments, I have a real issue with drink drivers for reasons I havent gone into as they are personal, i saw sympathy which you only got because you didnt kill anyone or hit a forum members TT and that annoyed me. There u go. Simple as.

If you and your mate Dc whatever his name is dont like that and u wanna call me a prick for that then fair dos, if I didnt want a response I shouldnt have posted. Actually I couldnt care less and would rather state my point of view as u invited us all to do.

Thats me on the subject.


----------



## dj c225

Leg said:


> If you and your mate Dc whatever his name is dont like that and u wanna call me a prick for that then fair dos, if I didnt want a response I shouldnt have posted. Actually I couldnt care less and would rather state my point of view as u invited us all to do.
> 
> Thats me on the subject.


Alright Peg,

I generally think your a pr1ck.


----------



## Hev

Guys, this is getting a bit out of control now 

Now that everybody has thrown their toys out of the pram, can we put them all back in again and play nicely :?










Hev x :?


----------



## saint

Makes a pleasant change for me though


----------



## Sim

saint said:


> Makes a pleasant change for me though


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:


----------



## stephengreen

So now that we've sorted who's a drunk driver, those with compassion, and those without..i take it nobody wants the car then :roll:


----------



## Hev

saint said:


> Makes a pleasant change for me though


Your toys were confiscated :roll: :wink:

Hev x


----------



## L8_0RGY

stephengreen said:


> So now that we've sorted who's a drunk driver, those with compassion, and those without..i take it nobody wants the car then :roll:


 :lol:

That must the first post you've made thats actually made me laugh.

On the contrary, I've got two pm's of members saying they're interested but nothing (obviously) concrete yet.


----------



## nutts

Whilst this is a serious subject... everyone needs to take care that they don't stray into personal attacks. To do so, would render this thread closed.


----------



## Leg

See everyone at the various meets hopefully, especially the summer one, should be fun.

Cant wait.


----------



## nutts

Leg said:


> See everyone at the various meets hopefully, especially the summer one, should be fun.
> 
> Cant wait.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## saint

Bum Fights - woooohoooo


----------



## johnnyboy

I'm not showing my a*se in public


----------



## mikett225

Leg said:


> Lol well for one I hadnt realised it was the same person, I posted the one about your parts on a seperate occasion, interest withdrawn. I didnt really pay attention to who had posted that other thread and it doesnt mention drink driving.
> 
> And for two, if you dont want people to get on the 'soapbox' which is what these forums are, then dont post about getting a drink drive ban. What did you expect? If you dont want discussion dont share your news with us.
> 
> You see my point is that you post 'I got caught drink driving and im really sorry' and some people are sympathetic.
> 
> If you had posted 'I got caught drink driving cos I was pissed and I ran someone over and killed them' how much sympathy do you think you would have got? If you had posted 'I got caught drink driving cos I was pissed and I hit <<insert forum members name>> 's car which was parked at the side of the road while he was in bed' exactly HOW MUCH sympathy do you think you would have got?
> 
> And my point is this - the difference between what happened to you and those 2 scenarios is pure luck.
> 
> I find it hard to be sympathetic towards you because of that and when I see people being sympathetic to you I think, I bet they wouldnt be if they were on the receiving end of a drink driver hitting their precious TT one night.
> 
> It wasnt an accident, YOU made the decision to get in the car, no one forced you. Your not thick, thats clear and you werent coerced.
> 
> Oh and funniest of all you somehow make the jump from not drink driving to not drinking at all. Does this tell us all something about your attitude towards drink driving? Probably not tbh, just a coincidence, but you do wonder.
> 
> You see I never drink and drive, because its damned dangerous, because I like my car too much, because I dont want to lose my job and subsequently house and to avoid it all you have to do is plan ahead.
> 
> However, once the cars tucked away believe me, i drink, far too much tbh but then again, its hard to smash my car up or kill anyone or even smash one of this lots TT up when im walking back from the pub, in a cab or staggering from the couch to bed.
> 
> And why you think someone who doesnt drink and drive is holy I dont know. I thought I was just not breaking the law and risking peoples lives by getting pissed and driving?
> 
> Oh I didnt call you a 'prick', I called you a 'prat'.


Maybe you can't smash one of this lots TT, but what if you were coming back from the pub, a little bit worse for wear and weaved off the pavement and into the road and one of this lot, in their TT, ran you over. Would it be their fault, probably not, but the driver, be it a TT driver or whomever would be blamed even if they were within the speed limit etc. Also I'm sure the driver of the car would be traumatised by the accident, maybe so badly they would never drive again. No one is perfect, I've staggered back from the pub on many a happy occasion, I've even done a couple of 8 mile drunken hikes through the countryside when I was younger and who would expect a drunken twat, me, to be in the middle of the road in the middle of no where, not I. I know I've been foolish in the past, and will continue to be probably, but L8 has done the big thing and stood up and been counted. We probably all speed from time to time, it's a gamble we take with the police and with other road users. If the accident is fatal, the end result is the same, someone has lost a loved one. I think some of the replies would be better suited to the flame room.

Oh and I think drunk drivers deserve their ban, it's when they continue to DD after their license is back or just not even wait for their license, that's what is really silly, they can't see that they have a problem and need some help, with a big stick!


----------



## stephengreen

As far as i can tell, the original post, wasn't an attempt to court sympathy. but rather in response to a question as to why they were selling their car. And, given that they had been asked, took the opportunity to admit that they had been stupid. But of course certain members couldn't resist the temptation to show what complete arseholes they are by by posting a response as if it were. They are of course entitled to their opinion, but perhaps would have not come across as such complete twats, if they had started a new thread, in the flame room, on the subject in general.


----------



## Leg

I really dont want to kick things off in here again so hopefully this is more gently stated than my previous posts on the matter.

I was getting a bit hacked off with this as I had wrongly got the impression that the majority felt that drink driving was either ok or that it deserved sympathy but Ive just re read the entire thread and realised that there are many, many voices who feel like I do.

We all have different experiences, my experiences of drink drivers has been quite bad due to one particular incident which endangered my family, although we were lucky. I havent really got an issue with the fella that got banned tbh, even after the bickering (I give as good as I get and thats fair enough) I dont know him and my experiences guarantees I respond as I have, to anyone in that position. I suppose im dissapointed that 61 points when 35 is the limit gets any sympathy at all.

And as the first post saying they have no sympathy says, I also would and do tell friends and family the same thing. Coincidence maybe, but my brother came up yesterday to a birthday party for my 8 year old son. Some adults were here from our family and some wine was out for the non drivers. I saw him knock back 2 decent size glasses of 13.5% wine and when he went for a third I said he shouldnt have anymore. No doubt we will be talking again by the end of the week but suffice to say he left in a huff. I genuinely cant understand why he thinks its alright, especially when he knows what we have experienced.

Whats worse is he drives an Elise 111 which ive driven and wouldnt like to drive with any booze in me at all its so touchy.

Anyway, whats done is done, owning and driving a car, nevermind a nice car like a TT is a priveledge and, like a gun isnt dangerous until its picked up by a human, neither is a car until its driven dangerously whether thats due to excessive booze, excessive speed or anything else. *A little over any limit can be an accident or misjudgement, double or nearly double any limit, be it drink, speed or anything else, isnt IMO.*

The only thing I will say in L8 0RGY's favour is im picking up a new V6TT at the end of next week and as far as punishments of a material sense are concerned, I cant think of much worse (except losing your home) than losing a nice new car you have looked forward to for sometime.

Ive said it already but that really is all I can say as im already re iterating either what I have said or what other people have said. We dont all agree, imagine how boring forums would be if we did.

Cheers

Leg


----------



## jampott

I've been off the forum since Friday, and I come back to find this thread has raged on...

I read through it all again (yawn) and wish to underline my own position, as I think I might have been the first to comment originally... :roll:

I'm not in favour of drink driving. Simple as that. I think people who do it regularly should be strung up by the balls, as they pose a serious danger to themselves as well as to others.

I'm prepared to admit, however, that it is possible for someone to make a mistake, to admit it, and to take the punishment. Nobody was hurt, and although that might just be down to luck, it *IS* still a fact.

I also find it VERY hard to reconcile the difference between regular drink drivers and regular, hardcore speeders. For me, there is very little difference between getting into a car having comsumed more than you should, and putting your foot down and doing silly speeds. Both require a deliberate judgement from the driver, and both require a line to be crossed with FULL knowledge of the consequences.

Despite what some people are saying, speed IS as dangerous as drink driving. Even 35 in a 30 (which some people apparently condone) is deadly and seriously reduces the risk of a pedestrian surviving.

So why are we (as a forum) so strongly critical of a person who takes to the road with excess alcohol, yet apparently condone (or at least don't slate) those who brag about racing at speed, topping 150mph, overtaking in unsafe situations, causing other cars to swerve, spin, brake heavily. Whatever...

In fairness, L8 only posted when prompted. I don't think he came looking for sympathy, and could have expected the extreme and differing responses his admission has garnered.

I also think some people on here are far too quick to condemn. Whilst they may not be guilty of the same crime, they ARE guilty of acts for which the end result is just as deadly, and for which there is just as much risk involved. If these people wish to think that I condone drink driving, just because I compare it to speeding, they should read my comments again. By comparing the end result, the statistics on drink related deaths and the mindset of the people who do one or the other (or both) you can see that they aren't actually that far removed - but if you THINK they are, you're making a mistake.

The stigma attached to drink driving far outweighs that of speeding - but some of the incidents reported on here, or witnessed by me or, indeed, carried out by me are every bit as dangerous. Excessive speed on the UK's roads, regardless of whether YOU think it is safe, certainly is NOT, and whether you like it or not, there IS a direct comparison with drink driving.

At twice the drink drive limit, you are FIFTY TIMES more likely to be involved in a fatal collision. But I wonder how much more likely you are to be involved in a fatal collision if you're speeding or extremely tired?


----------



## scoTTy

jampott said:


> The stigma attached to drink driving far outweighs that of speeding - but some of the incidents reported on here, or witnessed by me or, indeed, carried out by me are every bit as dangerous. Excessive speed on the UK's roads, regardless of whether YOU think it is safe, certainly is NOT, and whether you like it or not, there IS a direct comparison with drink driving.


Can we add pulling out in front of coaches to that list? :wink:


----------



## jampott

scoTTy said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> The stigma attached to drink driving far outweighs that of speeding - but some of the incidents reported on here, or witnessed by me or, indeed, carried out by me are every bit as dangerous. Excessive speed on the UK's roads, regardless of whether YOU think it is safe, certainly is NOT, and whether you like it or not, there IS a direct comparison with drink driving.
> 
> 
> 
> Can we add pulling out in front of coaches to that list? :wink:
Click to expand...

Sure. It was bloody dangerous, and a total misjudgement on my part. I didn't deliberately try and get my Z nearly totalled by a large coach, but that was almost the end result...

In hindsight, BECAUSE nothing bad happened, its become rather tongue in cheek, but I've been more careful pulling out since


----------



## jdn

jampott said:


> I also find it VERY hard to reconcile the difference between regular drink drivers and regular, hardcore speeders. For me, there is very little difference between getting into a car having comsumed more than you should, and putting your foot down and doing silly speeds. Both require a deliberate judgement from the driver, and both require a line to be crossed with FULL knowledge of the consequences.
> 
> Despite what some people are saying, speed IS as dangerous as drink driving. Even 35 in a 30 (which some people apparently condone) is deadly and seriously reduces the risk of a pedestrian surviving.
> 
> So why are we (as a forum) so strongly critical of a person who takes to the road with excess alcohol, yet apparently condone (or at least don't slate) those who brag about racing at speed, topping 150mph, overtaking in unsafe situations, causing other cars to swerve, spin, brake heavily. Whatever...


I entirely agree, and am also puzzled by this paradox. One person is flayed for their *confession*, and yet another who *boasts* about doing 182mph on public roads is not....

Both are equally stupid IMHO.


----------



## W7 PMC

However it's viewed Tim, drink driving is far more dangerous than speeding, taking hardcore speeding away from that.

The government stastic is that you're 35 times more likely to have a crash when driving at twice the legal UK alcohol limit. Now please state me the same fact about speeding???

Am i 35 times more likely to have a car crash when doing 35 in a 30, or 50 in a 40 or 85 on the motorway?? if i did have a crash, the higher the speed, the bigger the risk of injury or fatality, but i'm not more likely to have an accident in the 1st place, assuming i/we use a little common sense as regards road/weather & traffic conditions.

Again, i'm not saying speeding at any level is clever or legal, but the statistics pseak for themselves.


----------



## jampott

W7 PMC said:


> However it's viewed Tim, drink driving is far more dangerous than speeding, taking hardcore speeding away from that.
> 
> The government stastic is that you're 35 times more likely to have a crash when driving at twice the legal UK alcohol limit. Now please state me the same fact about speeding???
> 
> Am i 35 times more likely to have a car crash when doing 35 in a 30, or 50 in a 40 or 85 on the motorway?? if i did have a crash, the higher the speed, the bigger the risk of injury or fatality, but i'm not more likely to have an accident in the 1st place, assuming i/we use a little common sense as regards road/weather & traffic conditions.
> 
> Again, i'm not saying speeding at any level is clever or legal, but the statistics pseak for themselves.


But we AREN'T taking hardcore speeding away from that... why should we, just because it doesn't suit your argument... :roll:

Are you 35 times more likely to have a FATAL crash when speeding? I've no idea - but until I'm shown statistics that prove otherwise, my assumption is that speed is a direct or indirect cause in such a large number of (fatal) accidents that it DOES become as dangerous as drink driving.

To put it another way, an accident is probably MORE likely to be the result of speeding or (sober) dangerous / reckless driving than as a result of alcohol - so someone driving like a [email protected] is MORE likely to be the cause damage than a drunk driver...

...and yes, I know this is because more people speed / drive recklessly than drive whilst drunk... but that doesn't change the statistics.

Not every speeder crashes. Not every drunk driver crashes. Not every crash involving a drunk driver (or, indeed, a speeder) is directly their fault....

But the fact remains, driving on the UK's roads with utter disregard for everyone else (be that because you are PISSED OFF YOUR TITS or simply DRIVING LIKE A TWAT) is dangerous. I'm not suggesting that drink driving is a good thing NOR that speeding is a heinous crime - just trying to understand why you can be so hard against one, yet obviously inclined towards the other.

Of course I can't find quotes where you suggest speeding is "good" or where you condone doing it. All I can suggest is you have a little think about how you've ever driven, how many times you've gone over 60mph in a 30mph zone, how many times over 100mph in a 60/70mph zone, how many times you've made a blind overtake, or taken any other risk. These things are YOUR (sober) choice at the time you do them. They are dangerous, regardless of your perception of the weather, traffic and driving conditions, because often you don't have enough information to judge what else is around you. This is no different from drink driving. You say the latter is "always dangerous" when actually it isn't. No more so than speeding or driving recklessly.

Perhaps if, in your formative years, your "close shave" had been with a speeding driver, who was racing one of his mates, but was stone cold sober, or was a the result of a badly judged manouvre by a police car, who judged the risks "acceptable" to speed, you may well be arguing from a completely different standpoint, or at least have a slightly less black and white view of drink driving...


----------



## garyc

Does the new TT come with Special Brew-sized cup holders?


----------



## W7 PMC

jampott said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> 
> However it's viewed Tim, drink driving is far more dangerous than speeding, taking hardcore speeding away from that.
> 
> The government stastic is that you're 35 times more likely to have a crash when driving at twice the legal UK alcohol limit. Now please state me the same fact about speeding???
> 
> Am i 35 times more likely to have a car crash when doing 35 in a 30, or 50 in a 40 or 85 on the motorway?? if i did have a crash, the higher the speed, the bigger the risk of injury or fatality, but i'm not more likely to have an accident in the 1st place, assuming i/we use a little common sense as regards road/weather & traffic conditions.
> 
> Again, i'm not saying speeding at any level is clever or legal, but the statistics pseak for themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> But we AREN'T taking hardcore speeding away from that... why should we, just because it doesn't suit your argument... :roll:
> 
> Are you 35 times more likely to have a FATAL crash when speeding? I've no idea - but until I'm shown statistics that prove otherwise, my assumption is that speed is a direct or indirect cause in such a large number of (fatal) accidents that it DOES become as dangerous as drink driving.
> 
> To put it another way, an accident is probably MORE likely to be the result of speeding or (sober) dangerous / reckless driving than as a result of alcohol - so someone driving like a [email protected] is MORE likely to be the cause damage than a drunk driver...
> 
> ...and yes, I know this is because more people speed / drive recklessly than drive whilst drunk... but that doesn't change the statistics.
> 
> Not every speeder crashes. Not every drunk driver crashes. Not every crash involving a drunk driver (or, indeed, a speeder) is directly their fault....
> 
> But the fact remains, driving on the UK's roads with utter disregard for everyone else (be that because you are PISSED OFF YOUR TITS or simply DRIVING LIKE A TWAT) is dangerous. I'm not suggesting that drink driving is a good thing NOR that speeding is a heinous crime - just trying to understand why you can be so hard against one, yet obviously inclined towards the other.
> 
> Of course I can't find quotes where you suggest speeding is "good" or where you condone doing it. All I can suggest is you have a little think about how you've ever driven, how many times you've gone over 60mph in a 30mph zone, how many times over 100mph in a 60/70mph zone, how many times you've made a blind overtake, or taken any other risk. These things are YOUR (sober) choice at the time you do them. They are dangerous, regardless of your perception of the weather, traffic and driving conditions, because often you don't have enough information to judge what else is around you. This is no different from drink driving. You say the latter is "always dangerous" when actually it isn't. No more so than speeding or driving recklessly.
> 
> Perhaps if, in your formative years, your "close shave" had been with a speeding driver, who was racing one of his mates, but was stone cold sober, or was a the result of a badly judged manouvre by a police car, who judged the risks "acceptable" to speed, you may well be arguing from a completely different standpoint, or at least have a slightly less black and white view of drink driving...
Click to expand...

Tim, you mis-understood my comment about hardcore speeders. It was nothing to do with what suits me or my driving, more around joyriders, youths, complete fcukwits & the like.

I've trawled high & low for statistics & the only ones on speeding relate to fatal vs non-fatal.

You're trying to now re-distingiush speeding & how can that be done?? The statistics for drink driving are fact, 35 times more likely to crash at twice the drink driving limits. Driving at 40 in a 30 by a fairly compitent driver is never going to amount to 35 times more likely to crash. Driving at 100 in a 30 i would say does pose more than a multiple of 35 threat, but which one is speeding??? they both are.

Niether of us can claim to be blameless when it comes to speed limits & i for sure have pulled off a couple of dumbass moves on the road in my time, but i'm talking factual information & a multiple of 35 is quite some margin over safe, where the same logic applied to speeding (depending on levels) would unlikely bring the same likely multiple.

You'll possibly also find that the more hardcore speeding in many cases can again result from other factors such as drink, drugs, being chased by the law etc. We hear about these cases all the time.

But i still stand by my point that being twice the legal limit means your 35 times more likely to crash & that marginal speeding would not pose the same threat.

As said before, it's fortunate that the law also feels drink driving is a far more serious offence than speeding, even though i don't think they go far enough.

The other arguement is concious decisions which i think you brought up. If i walk into a pub/bar & have say 3 pints, i then make a concious decision to drive home (only me to blame). On the other hand i whilst listening to my favourite tune in the car, stray a few mph over the limit. Now which one is the more concious decision?? Of course if i plant the loud pedal on the motorway & cruise on up to 150MPH, that's concious, but their is a difference. 90+% of people have broken a/the speed limit at some point in their lives, but only a very few decide on a regular basis to drive like a total t*at, perhaps the same numbers as for drink driving, i don't know but i truly beleive that if more accidents are attributable speeding, then that's because more people do it, not because the chances of an accident are the same.


----------



## Sim

jampott said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> 
> However it's viewed Tim, drink driving is far more dangerous than speeding, taking hardcore speeding away from that.
> 
> The government stastic is that you're 35 times more likely to have a crash when driving at twice the legal UK alcohol limit. Now please state me the same fact about speeding???
> 
> Am i 35 times more likely to have a car crash when doing 35 in a 30, or 50 in a 40 or 85 on the motorway?? if i did have a crash, the higher the speed, the bigger the risk of injury or fatality, but i'm not more likely to have an accident in the 1st place, assuming i/we use a little common sense as regards road/weather & traffic conditions.
> 
> Again, i'm not saying speeding at any level is clever or legal, but the statistics pseak for themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> But we AREN'T taking hardcore speeding away from that... why should we, just because it doesn't suit your argument... :roll:
> 
> Are you 35 times more likely to have a FATAL crash when speeding? I've no idea - but until I'm shown statistics that prove otherwise, my assumption is that speed is a direct or indirect cause in such a large number of (fatal) accidents that it DOES become as dangerous as drink driving.
> 
> To put it another way, an accident is probably MORE likely to be the result of speeding or (sober) dangerous / reckless driving than as a result of alcohol - so someone driving like a [email protected] is MORE likely to be the cause damage than a drunk driver...
> 
> ...and yes, I know this is because more people speed / drive recklessly than drive whilst drunk... but that doesn't change the statistics.
> 
> Not every speeder crashes. Not every drunk driver crashes. Not every crash involving a drunk driver (or, indeed, a speeder) is directly their fault....
> 
> But the fact remains, driving on the UK's roads with utter disregard for everyone else (be that because you are PISSED OFF YOUR TITS or simply DRIVING LIKE A TWAT) is dangerous. I'm not suggesting that drink driving is a good thing NOR that speeding is a heinous crime - just trying to understand why you can be so hard against one, yet obviously inclined towards the other.
> 
> Of course I can't find quotes where you suggest speeding is "good" or where you condone doing it. All I can suggest is you have a little think about how you've ever driven, how many times you've gone over 60mph in a 30mph zone, how many times over 100mph in a 60/70mph zone, how many times you've made a blind overtake, or taken any other risk. These things are YOUR (sober) choice at the time you do them. They are dangerous, regardless of your perception of the weather, traffic and driving conditions, because often you don't have enough information to judge what else is around you. This is no different from drink driving. You say the latter is "always dangerous" when actually it isn't. No more so than speeding or driving recklessly.
> 
> Perhaps if, in your formative years, your "close shave" had been with a speeding driver, who was racing one of his mates, but was stone cold sober, or was a the result of a badly judged manouvre by a police car, who judged the risks "acceptable" to speed, you may well be arguing from a completely different standpoint, or at least have a slightly less black and white view of drink driving...
Click to expand...

Whilst I agree, I must point out that when people have been caught speeding on this forum others don't tend to say unlucky. There have been a number of times where people have asked for advice on the ways of getting out of speeding ticket penalties and others have said that if you were speeding you need to face the consequences.

Both are potentially dangerous and therefore both have penalties because Government has deemed these actions as unacceptable.

Thus for me this is an open and shut case, a law has been broken and a penalty has been imposed. It does not warrant sympathy or condemnation and Rupert has not asked for either of these. Just my 2p worth.


----------



## ferino

garyc said:


> Does the new TT come with Special Brew-sized cup holders?


 :lol: :lol: :lol: Glad someone has lightend up this thread its all getting a bit much !!!!

Chill out everyone.


----------



## DGW131

ferino said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does the new TT come with Special Brew-sized cup holders?
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: Glad someone has lightend up this thread its all getting a bit much !!!!
> 
> Chill out everyone.
Click to expand...

Hey.......... you are on a discussion forum


----------



## jampott

Sim said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> 
> However it's viewed Tim, drink driving is far more dangerous than speeding, taking hardcore speeding away from that.
> 
> The government stastic is that you're 35 times more likely to have a crash when driving at twice the legal UK alcohol limit. Now please state me the same fact about speeding???
> 
> Am i 35 times more likely to have a car crash when doing 35 in a 30, or 50 in a 40 or 85 on the motorway?? if i did have a crash, the higher the speed, the bigger the risk of injury or fatality, but i'm not more likely to have an accident in the 1st place, assuming i/we use a little common sense as regards road/weather & traffic conditions.
> 
> Again, i'm not saying speeding at any level is clever or legal, but the statistics pseak for themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> But we AREN'T taking hardcore speeding away from that... why should we, just because it doesn't suit your argument... :roll:
> 
> Are you 35 times more likely to have a FATAL crash when speeding? I've no idea - but until I'm shown statistics that prove otherwise, my assumption is that speed is a direct or indirect cause in such a large number of (fatal) accidents that it DOES become as dangerous as drink driving.
> 
> To put it another way, an accident is probably MORE likely to be the result of speeding or (sober) dangerous / reckless driving than as a result of alcohol - so someone driving like a [email protected] is MORE likely to be the cause damage than a drunk driver...
> 
> ...and yes, I know this is because more people speed / drive recklessly than drive whilst drunk... but that doesn't change the statistics.
> 
> Not every speeder crashes. Not every drunk driver crashes. Not every crash involving a drunk driver (or, indeed, a speeder) is directly their fault....
> 
> But the fact remains, driving on the UK's roads with utter disregard for everyone else (be that because you are PISSED OFF YOUR TITS or simply DRIVING LIKE A TWAT) is dangerous. I'm not suggesting that drink driving is a good thing NOR that speeding is a heinous crime - just trying to understand why you can be so hard against one, yet obviously inclined towards the other.
> 
> Of course I can't find quotes where you suggest speeding is "good" or where you condone doing it. All I can suggest is you have a little think about how you've ever driven, how many times you've gone over 60mph in a 30mph zone, how many times over 100mph in a 60/70mph zone, how many times you've made a blind overtake, or taken any other risk. These things are YOUR (sober) choice at the time you do them. They are dangerous, regardless of your perception of the weather, traffic and driving conditions, because often you don't have enough information to judge what else is around you. This is no different from drink driving. You say the latter is "always dangerous" when actually it isn't. No more so than speeding or driving recklessly.
> 
> Perhaps if, in your formative years, your "close shave" had been with a speeding driver, who was racing one of his mates, but was stone cold sober, or was a the result of a badly judged manouvre by a police car, who judged the risks "acceptable" to speed, you may well be arguing from a completely different standpoint, or at least have a slightly less black and white view of drink driving...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whilst I agree, I must point out that when people have been caught speeding on this forum others don't tend to say unlucky. There have been a number of times where people have asked for advice on the ways of getting out of speeding ticket penalties and others have said that if you were speeding you need to face the consequences.
> 
> Both are potentially dangerous and therefore both have penalties because Government has deemed these actions as unacceptable.
> 
> Thus for me this is an open and shut case, a law has been broken and a penalty has been imposed. It does not warrant sympathy or condemnation and Rupert has not asked for either of these. Just my 2p worth.
Click to expand...

I do partly agree - if people are CAUGHT then often they're told to bite the bullet and take it like a man.

But if people brag about racing someone, driving recklessly, baiting someone ELSE into making a mistake, exceeding the speed limit by 30+mph, they aren't given the same condemnation.

In particular, people "guilty" of the above acts are often the ones doing the condemning.

Of course those people who have never driven in a reckless or deliberately aggressive manner on the public roads - they can say what the hell they like on the matter. I just find it hard to believe some people who are guilty of endangering themselves (and Joe Public) in ways that THEY find acceptable, are so quick to condemn others who break the law in other ways.

Like I said, this isn't (for me) even a discussion on what is right or wrong. It's a simple matter of hypocrisy.


----------



## W7 PMC

jdn said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also find it VERY hard to reconcile the difference between regular drink drivers and regular, hardcore speeders. For me, there is very little difference between getting into a car having comsumed more than you should, and putting your foot down and doing silly speeds. Both require a deliberate judgement from the driver, and both require a line to be crossed with FULL knowledge of the consequences.
> 
> Despite what some people are saying, speed IS as dangerous as drink driving. Even 35 in a 30 (which some people apparently condone) is deadly and seriously reduces the risk of a pedestrian surviving.
> 
> So why are we (as a forum) so strongly critical of a person who takes to the road with excess alcohol, yet apparently condone (or at least don't slate) those who brag about racing at speed, topping 150mph, overtaking in unsafe situations, causing other cars to swerve, spin, brake heavily. Whatever...
> 
> 
> 
> I entirely agree, and am also puzzled by this paradox. One person is flayed for their *confession*, and yet another who *boasts* about doing 182mph on public roads is not....
> 
> Both are equally stupid IMHO.
Click to expand...

Tim, the key point is that one is less likely to cause an accident. This is what i said above. We know the faster a car is travelling, the more likely a fatal outcome to any pedestrain struck, however my point was about having an accident, not the outcome of an accident.

Ps. Who was doing 182MPH on a public road??


----------



## scoTTy

Sim said:


> It does not warrant sympathy or condemnation and Rupert has not asked for either of these.


Since when did anyone on an internet forum have to be invited for an opinion? :roll: :wink:


----------



## V6 TT

W7 PMC said:


> Ps. Who was doing 182MPH on a public road??


. . . that'll be me then - once, early hours, straight 3 lane empty M-way, clear conditions, to see where my Â£52k went and to see if it does what it says on the tin, it did better than expected and in no time at all, nuff said.

Dean


----------



## garyc

V6 TT said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ps. Who was doing 182MPH on a public road??
> 
> 
> 
> . . . that'll be me then - once, early hours, straight 3 lane empty M-way, clear conditions, to see where my Â£52k went and to see if it does what it says on the tin, it did better than expected and in no time at all, nuff said.
> 
> Dean
Click to expand...

So the speedo is inaccurate then.. :wink:


----------



## garyc

DGW131 said:


> ferino said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> garyc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does the new TT come with Special Brew-sized cup holders?
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: Glad someone has lightend up this thread its all getting a bit much !!!!
> 
> Chill out everyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey.......... you are on a discussion forum
Click to expand...

Hey..... YOU are on a discussion forum too. :wink:


----------



## jampott

W7 PMC said:


> jdn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also find it VERY hard to reconcile the difference between regular drink drivers and regular, hardcore speeders. For me, there is very little difference between getting into a car having comsumed more than you should, and putting your foot down and doing silly speeds. Both require a deliberate judgement from the driver, and both require a line to be crossed with FULL knowledge of the consequences.
> 
> Despite what some people are saying, speed IS as dangerous as drink driving. Even 35 in a 30 (which some people apparently condone) is deadly and seriously reduces the risk of a pedestrian surviving.
> 
> So why are we (as a forum) so strongly critical of a person who takes to the road with excess alcohol, yet apparently condone (or at least don't slate) those who brag about racing at speed, topping 150mph, overtaking in unsafe situations, causing other cars to swerve, spin, brake heavily. Whatever...
> 
> 
> 
> I entirely agree, and am also puzzled by this paradox. One person is flayed for their *confession*, and yet another who *boasts* about doing 182mph on public roads is not....
> 
> Both are equally stupid IMHO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tim, the key point is that one is less likely to cause an accident. This is what i said above. We know the faster a car is travelling, the more likely a fatal outcome to any pedestrain struck, however my point was about having an accident, not the outcome of an accident.
> 
> Ps. Who was doing 182MPH on a public road??
Click to expand...

Is one less likely to cause an accident? Maybe so, but its unproven. I don't have any statistics for the number of miles driven by drunks versus the number of collisions, to compare against figures I ALSO don't have, for the number of miles "sped", versus the number of collisions caused by speeders.

A lot depends on how widespread the former actually is. Certainly it is less so than 30 years ago, but is it more prevalent than you assume?


----------



## Leg

V6 TT said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ps. Who was doing 182MPH on a public road??
> 
> 
> 
> . . . that'll be me then - once, early hours, straight 3 lane empty M-way, clear conditions, to see where my Â£52k went and to see if it does what it says on the tin, it did better than expected and in no time at all, nuff said.
> 
> Dean
Click to expand...

groan u did that on purpose didnt u.....go on then ill rise to it

Ure as bad as the drink drive guy. No, worse, he was at least ashamed of himself.

Im sure your a nice guy and all, as im sure is Rupert (parents huh :wink: ) but cmon, no one surely thinks this is ok?

May as well join a Scooby forum at this rate :roll:


----------



## garyc

At least he wasn't racing to the pub for last orders...


----------



## Leg

garyc said:


> At least he wasn't racing to the pub for last orders...


There arent any last orders anymore are there?


----------



## thejepster

Leg said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> 
> At least he wasn't racing to the pub for last orders...
> 
> 
> 
> There arent any last orders anymore are there?
Click to expand...

Of course there are.... only they're not at 10.50pm like they used to be!


----------



## Loz180

SPeed is best saved for the Race Track.

Some of you will have heard me mention my young friend James (24) who has now sold his M3 smg conv. and is running around in an Â£800 Merc C180 while he looks for the perfect toy car. 911 GT3s are too plain for him, Turbos are a possible, Noble and Diabolo have cropped up. Yesterday he rang me and said the best thing I've heard in years!

"Where did you learn to drive fast? Which race School would you recomend???"

Made me laugh at first because he wouldn't listen when I recomended "Roadcraft" to first know when and where to use the speed. but eventually he accepeted that the cars he wants are best kept for the track and shouldn't be driven like a [email protected] on the roads. I felt a little better for maybe getting him to think twice before becoming part of a mangled wreckage....

buys will be boys but speed belongs on the track.

maybe for all cars over 150bhp per tonne you should have to do a RoSPA test. might reduce insuance premiums and casualties..


----------



## jdn

V6 TT said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ps. Who was doing 182MPH on a public road??
> 
> 
> 
> . . . that'll be me then - once, early hours, straight 3 lane empty M-way, clear conditions, to see where my Â£52k went and to see if it does what it says on the tin, it did better than expected and in no time at all, nuff said.
> 
> Dean
Click to expand...

Seeing as you mentioned the price...

Would it have still been value for money if you had lost control and killed someone?

Stop deluding yourself it was 'safe'. Would L8-Orgy have received less grief it the pub was 'just down the road' on a 'quiet day' with no traffic??


----------



## scoTTy

jdn said:


> Would L8-Orgy have received less grief it the pub was 'just down the road' on a 'quiet day' with no traffic??


No. :wink:


----------



## raven

What Dean did in his Cayman S (whilst daft IMO) is totally legal in Germany. I do not know any country where driving whilst drunk is legal. :roll:


----------



## jampott

raven said:


> What Dean did in his Cayman S (whilst daft IMO) is totally legal in Germany. I do not know any country where driving whilst drunk is legal. :roll:


Stoning is legal in some countries too... :roll:

The fact of the matter is, it only takes 1 person not to be expecting some complete pillock to be caning it down the motorway at 180mph, for complete carnage to ensue. In Germany, those speeds are to be expected.

Personally, I'd make it law to go those speeds under certain circumstances in this country. I think it'd lead to far less frustration on the roads if there was somewhere people could open things up and go for it 

It also used to be legal (until 1966, I think) to drink drive in the UK... :roll:


----------



## Leg

raven said:


> What Dean did in his Cayman S (whilst daft IMO) is totally legal in Germany. I do not know any country where driving whilst drunk is legal. :roll:


Its legal on certain designated stretches of Motorway. Not all, and certainly not off Motorway. I assume, dont know but it seems obvious, that these stretches are straight, have more lanes etc

Its legal (indeed part of the legal system) to hang people in sports stadiums in Iran. Not sure I would subscribe to it here though.


----------



## raven

Jeez - Germany is a bit closer to the UK - both culturally, geographically and economy-wise. Both the UK and Germany are part of the European Union as well. Citing what happens in Iran is ridiculous.

*Inappropriate* speeding is what is dangerous. Not speeding per se.


----------



## Leg

I totally agree with you on your point regarding the speeding being daft.

All I was doing was picking up on Jampotts stoning comment tbh, made me think middle east (and life of brian 'Jehovah!' :lol: ).

There are loads of differences between German and French law to ours (radar detectors for example) some good, some bad.

I wonder what German and French laws on drink driving are? Anyone know?


----------



## raven

I believe both are stricter than ours.


----------



## Leg

raven said:


> I believe both are stricter than ours.


Probably knowing the Germans, cant vouch for the French although I once drove right up to the Eiffel Tower (as near as you can get) and they didnt appear to be obeying any laws whatsoever that day


----------



## Kell

raven said:


> What Dean did in his Cayman S (whilst daft IMO) is totally legal in Germany. I do not know any country where driving whilst drunk is legal. :roll:


Though I've never been to Germany, I believe the derestricted bits are only those bits where there are no on or off ramps.

ie no one suddenly joining at 30 mph when you're doing 180 - and no one braking and trying to get off either.


----------



## scoTTy

Most of the sections I've driven are like that but I've definately been on sections with ramps. I remember as I caught a 911 Turbo at 150mph and I thought, being destricted, I'd be able to go past him. Instead he turned off.


----------



## W7 PMC

scoTTy said:


> Most of the sections I've driven are like that but I've definately been on sections with ramps. I remember as I caught a 911 Turbo at 150mph and I thought, being destricted, I'd be able to go past him. Instead he turned off.


Perhaps it was not a de-restricted section. You bad [email protected], you must have been speeding you monster. Go straight to jail & don't collect Â£200 & consider yourself lucky with that. :lol: :lol:


----------



## scoTTy

It was derestricted. It was actually about 5/6 lanes wide with the long slip road etc. :wink:

At least I didn't try that sorta speed approaching a border crossing! :-*


----------



## Guest

why do pubs still have car parks??!? - surely its asking for trouble? Why not make existing car parks into beer gardens - no place to park the car, therefore less drunk drivers


----------



## Leg

AndyRoo_TT said:


> why do pubs still have car parks??!? - surely its asking for trouble? Why not make existing car parks into beer gardens - no place to park the car, therefore less drunk drivers


Most pubs (as against bars etc) serve food now, been to the pub loads of times with the family and driven. One near us has a ball pool climbing frame thing too. Just drink Coke.


----------



## scoTTy

AndyRoo_TT said:


> why do pubs still have car parks??!?


Simple. Because it's not compulsory to drink alcohol when you drive to a pub. I'm often the nominated driver so why the hell shouldn't I have somewhere to put the car?


----------



## Leg

creeping towards 20 pages..........


----------



## YELLOW_TT

Leg said:


> creeping towards 20 pages..........


Well here's another one to help it on its way


----------



## John C

V6 TT said:


> nuff said.
> 
> Dean


Promise?


----------



## V6 TT

jacTT225 said:


> V6 TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> nuff said.
> 
> Dean
> 
> 
> 
> Promise?
Click to expand...

 . . . promise (184mph last night  )


----------



## John C

V6 TT said:


> jacTT225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> V6 TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> nuff said.
> 
> Dean
> 
> 
> 
> Promise?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . . . promise (184mph last night  )
Click to expand...

Ok too subtle a point, you missed it, never mind......... we live in hope...


----------



## jdn

V6 TT said:


> jacTT225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> V6 TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> nuff said.
> 
> Dean
> 
> 
> 
> Promise?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . . . promise (184mph last night  )
Click to expand...

You are winding us all up I assume.

:?


----------



## vlastan

jdn said:


> V6 TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jacTT225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> V6 TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> nuff said.
> 
> Dean
> 
> 
> 
> Promise?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . . . promise (184mph last night  )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are winding us all up I assume.
> 
> :?
Click to expand...

Of course he is. Top speed of the Cayman S is 171mph as I found out recently in a test drive.


----------



## Dotti

V!


----------



## Dotti

V!


----------



## Toshiba

hes back????


----------



## Dotti

V!


----------



## Sim

vlastan said:


> jdn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> V6 TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jacTT225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> V6 TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> nuff said.
> 
> Dean
> 
> 
> 
> Promise?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . . . promise (184mph last night  )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are winding us all up I assume.
> 
> :?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course he is. Top speed of the Cayman S is 171mph as I found out recently in a test drive.
Click to expand...

Alright V are you trying to get your [smiley=crowngrin.gif] back whilst Jampott is in NY? :wink:


----------



## Dotti

:lol:


----------



## V6 TT

jacTT225 said:


> V6 TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jacTT225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> V6 TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> nuff said.
> 
> Dean
> 
> 
> 
> Promise?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . . . promise (184mph last night  )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok too subtle a point, you missed it, never mind......... we live in hope...
Click to expand...

. . . ditto . . . and I should give a fuck what you (or others) say or feel because? Classic! :lol:


----------



## jdn

So if the first time was to see if your car 'does what is says on the tin', why do it again?


----------



## V6 TT

jdn said:


> So if the first time was to see if your car 'does what is says on the tin', why do it again?


. . . because I can . . . this is just way too easy, come on! :lol:

I'll never do it again, sorry Dad. There's a reason why your views are in the minority on such a huge *car enthusiasts *forum, I'll let you figure it out, I really can't be bothered . . .


----------



## genocidalduck

V6 TT said:


> jdn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if the first time was to see if your car 'does what is says on the tin', why do it again?
> 
> 
> 
> . . . because I can . . . this is just way too easy, come on! :lol:
> 
> I'll never do it again, sorry Dad. There's a reason why your views are in the minority on such a huge *car enthusiasts *forum, I'll let you figure it out, I really can't be bothered . . .
Click to expand...

Just being curious. Why have you had your old V6 TT plate put on your flat 6 Cayman?


----------



## DGW131

Dotti said:


> V!


so what.................... he is a forum member


----------



## V6 TT

genocidalduck said:


> Just being curious. Why have you had your old V6 TT plate put on your flat 6 Cayman?


. . . why not? It's a private plate and hate the new ones.

Dean


----------



## John C

V6 TT said:


> . . . ditto . . . and I should give a fuck what you (or others) say or feel because? Classic! :lol:


You shouldn't, I certainly don't, like I said I just live in, perhaps false, hope.

PS F word in off topic? tisk tisk tisk :wink:


----------



## TTotal

What was this thread about again?

Oh yes.

Zero limit = no confusion.


----------



## W7 PMC

Dotti said:


> V!


It's not V. Someone every now & again takes his identity to get on peoples t1ts. Me thinks i know who it is, but it's a little sad really.


----------



## jdn

V6 TT said:


> jdn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if the first time was to see if your car 'does what is says on the tin', why do it again?
> 
> 
> 
> . . . because I can . . . this is just way too easy, come on! :lol:
> 
> I'll never do it again, sorry Dad. There's a reason why your views are in the minority on such a huge *car enthusiasts *forum, I'll let you figure it out, I really can't be bothered . . .
Click to expand...

Most car enthusiasts are not stupid or immature enough to beleive driving at 180mph on public roads is safe or sensible. I guess there are exceptions.

I sincerely hope you are caught and banned before you kill someone - or yourself for that matter. :x

As for the minority view - I am not so sure, hence the Flame Room poll.


----------



## V6 TT

jdn said:


> V6 TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jdn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if the first time was to see if your car 'does what is says on the tin', why do it again?
> 
> 
> 
> . . . because I can . . . this is just way too easy, come on! :lol:
> 
> I'll never do it again, sorry Dad. There's a reason why your views are in the minority on such a huge *car enthusiasts *forum, I'll let you figure it out, I really can't be bothered . . .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most car enthusiasts are not stupid or immature enough to beleive driving at 180mph on public roads is safe or sensible. I guess there are exceptions.
> 
> I sincerely hope you are caught and banned before you kill someone - or yourself for that matter. :x
> 
> As for the minority view - I am not so sure, hence the Flame Room poll.
Click to expand...

. . . over we go then, I'll enjoy this - you ready?


----------



## Leg

V6 TT said:


> jdn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> V6 TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jdn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if the first time was to see if your car 'does what is says on the tin', why do it again?
> 
> 
> 
> . . . because I can . . . this is just way too easy, come on! :lol:
> 
> I'll never do it again, sorry Dad. There's a reason why your views are in the minority on such a huge *car enthusiasts *forum, I'll let you figure it out, I really can't be bothered . . .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most car enthusiasts are not stupid or immature enough to beleive driving at 180mph on public roads is safe or sensible. I guess there are exceptions.
> 
> I sincerely hope you are caught and banned before you kill someone - or yourself for that matter. :x
> 
> As for the minority view - I am not so sure, hence the Flame Room poll.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . . . over we go then, I'll enjoy this - you ready?
Click to expand...

theres an 'i' missing from your reg plate m8


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## vagman

Hi Orgy,

I'm not often here thesedays, and I have only just read about recent misfortune. 

Bad luck, mate.


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## scoTTy

vagman said:


> Bad luck, mate.


Luck? :roll: :lol:


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## V6 TT

Leg said:


> theres an 'i' missing from your reg plate m8


. . . give me your address and I'll come round and show you the digit that's actually missing if you like maybe? :lol: :wink: . . . you've grown on me, I kinda like you!


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## Leg

V6 TT said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> 
> theres an 'i' missing from your reg plate m8
> 
> 
> 
> . . . give me your address and I'll come round and show you the digit that's actually missing if you like maybe? :lol: :wink: . . . you've grown on me, I kinda like you!
Click to expand...

Err as sexually overt as that sounds.......if u like, so long as u dont mean George Michael style showing of 'digits'? I dont do public toilets. :lol:


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## DGW131

As this not run its course now :?:


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## Silver Shadow

DGW131 said:


> As this not run its course now :?:


Oh yes... its enough to drive you to drink!!! :roll: :roll: [smiley=stop.gif]


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## DGW131

Silver Shadow said:


> DGW131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As this not run its course now :?:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yes... its enough to drive you to drink!!! :roll: :roll: [smiley=stop.gif]
Click to expand...

 :lol: :wink: .................


----------

