# Audi Concert



## dan_saviola (Aug 2, 2011)

Hi everyone,

Just bought my Audi TT and it already had the Bose speakers and Audi Concert head unit.

The sound is not great, as I'm sure you all know. Is this actually better than the standard sound system that comes factory spec?? Will improving the head unit result in better quality through the Bose speakers?

Also, I'm using the Ipod connection in my glovebox. Will changing the headunit mean I can get track Id display on the radio screen?

Many thanks.


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## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

Varying opinions on the quality of the BOSE system. Changing your head unit will certainly improve the amplification and sound quality. If you swap your factory head unit for an aftermarket one, the factory iPod connection will become useless. However, many aftermarket units have built in, and much better, iPod integration.


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## dan_saviola (Aug 2, 2011)

Thanks for that. Incredibly, the standard sound system on my Mini Cooper was A LOT better than the upgrade on the TT?!


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

I've had two TTs and an A3 from the Audi stable. I loved my TTS and adore my RS. Sorry to say as far as ICE goes, "shite" doesn't even come close :?


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## Anakin (Apr 19, 2011)

I have the Concert and Bose too. And I dont think it's very good either, I'm having a Alpine Nav unit fitted on tuesday, I'll see how that improves the sound. Probably end up going back to my audio guy in a couple of months for some speakers and a decent sub fitted. The DynAudio system in my Rocco R was better, but even that wasnet too good.


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## MXS (May 10, 2010)

After market HU will improve the sound quality :wink:


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## dan_saviola (Aug 2, 2011)

MXS said:


> After market HU will improve the sound quality :wink:


A lot better?


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## MXS (May 10, 2010)

dan_saviola said:


> MXS said:
> 
> 
> > After market HU will improve the sound quality :wink:
> ...


Yes!... improves the sound quality, and volume no end.


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

dan_saviola said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Just bought my Audi TT and it already had the Bose speakers and Audi Concert head unit.
> 
> The sound is not great, as I'm sure you all know. Is this actually better than the standard sound system that comes factory spec?? Will improving the head unit result in better quality through the Bose speakers?


Congratulations!

About the audio, just being curious: what is it that people don't like about the concert radio-cd player?
Mine has the concert plus 9 speaker configuration (not Bose, but with the digital sound processor in the back) and for standard factory equipment, I think it's quite OK. I'm not saying that there isn't room for improvement, because there is. My standards aren't low, I've spend more than 5000 euros on my home stereo, only high end equipment... So tell me what's missing?


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## dan_saviola (Aug 2, 2011)

TT-driver said:


> dan_saviola said:
> 
> 
> > Hi everyone,
> ...


The mid-high is fine, if a little "tinny". However, there's little bass or depth to the bottom end, even with bass maxed and mid and highs turned down slightly. Not impressive for an upgrade, as I said, the Mini's was a lot better.

Am I right in thinking the Concert stereo is the upgrade and that Symphony is the base model? So a better stereo should improve the sound through the bose speakers?


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

If I remember correctly, the Symphony has a CD changer, the Concert hasn't.

So you're lacking in the bass department. As far as I'm aware Audi should be able to code the amplifier for a diesel car. Then it will produce more base to compensate for the noise of the diesel engine.

I did find that the bass got deeper by dampening the door cards. Vibrations mask the deeper frequencies. But it won't get you more bass. My improvements so far were more focussed on the high frequencies, which I didn't find sparkling enough. For the low end I simply dampened the door cards by putting pieces of rubber between the card and the metal of the door itself and I added a 10.000uF capacitor close the the amp in the back. The latter didn't make much difference though. I think the bass is a bit more punchy now.


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## faz786 (Aug 5, 2011)

so how much do these Concert radio's fetch if you were to sell?


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## hope88 (Mar 25, 2011)

TT-driver said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> About the audio, just being curious: what is it that people don't like about the concert radio-cd player?
> Mine has the concert plus 9 speaker configuration (not Bose, but with the digital sound processor in the back) and for standard factory equipment, I think it's quite OK. I'm not saying that there isn't room for improvement, because there is. My standards aren't low, I've spend more than 5000 euros on my home stereo, only high end equipment... So tell me what's missing?


Curious here too...while I have to admit the "base" stereo doesn't sound too good (I had a 2011 base model A3 for a day) I don't have any problems with the upgraded BOSE system on my TT. In fact, I can say the low end is even better than the B&O on my A6 courtesy car.

Sure, aftermarket might sound better etc but I won't say that the BOSE system on the TT is horrible!


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## Jonessey (Jul 20, 2011)

If you look on EBay there are always systems on sale

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-2011- ... _500wt_922

This is one. But I have seen them for cheaper

Hope this helps


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

Concert and Symphony are the base unit, just that Symphony has a built-in changer.

The Navigation High unit (RNS-E) is a different unit and many claim it's better.

Bass is a very subjective thing. Many people have hearing damage they are completely unaware of and require lower frequencies to be boosted. As you get older, your hearing naturally degrades, faster if you regularly listen to high amplitudes of noise or work in a noisy environment without hearing protection.

At the age of 45 I take protecting my hearing very seriously and I have Audiographs that show my hearing is supposedly average for someone of my age according to the text books.

BOSE is an acquired taste in my opinion. I you listen to it in isolation, depending on the source music, it can sound anaemic but actually it's all there. You can hear each instrument or mixed track. You can feel timpani, literally if you listen to Kodo. But I can understand how it wouldn't appeal to people who visit clubs where the bass is often a visceral thing these days.

A subwoofer, in my opinion, should be noticeable only when it's not there.

I have live recordings of concerts I was actually present at, and BOSE was a pretty good reproduction in my opinion.

All that said, I had mine all pulled out and replaced with something I like better!


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## dan_saviola (Aug 2, 2011)

wja96 said:


> Concert and Symphony are the base unit, just that Symphony has a built-in changer.
> 
> The Navigation High unit (RNS-E) is a different unit and many claim it's better.
> 
> ...


True, but if comparing to another car sound system (like me with the Mini's I just sold), then a comparrison is really easy to make. For me, the Bose upgrade on a sports car should be better than the base model on a Mini. Some have said it's because the Minis are meant to be "more fun" but I disagree.


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

As I say, I think some systems are really in your face. The BOSE on the TT isn't. It's a source of great wonder to me that almost no-one (including myself) really listens to the ICE on a test-drive. It's a very important feature for most folks, but very few really give it a thorough trial on a test drive.

I think you know what you have to do!


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

wja96 said:


> As I say, I think some systems are really in your face. The BOSE on the TT isn't. It's a source of great wonder to me that almost no-one (including myself) really listens to the ICE on a test-drive. It's a very important feature for most folks, but very few really give it a thorough trial on a test drive.


I did listen to the radio briefly during the test drive. Conclusion: enough bass but not clean enough, mids and treble lack clarity and transparency. But good enough for ICE and quite easy to improve. The dealer said Bose wouldn't do much better. I guess it's biggest contribution is active noise compensation and perhaps slightly better speakers. I doubt it if the added subwoofer will add an octave.

First remark regarding the audio my dad made when I took him for a spin: lots of bass in this car.

I must say that when the engine is not running and at low volume levels distortion seems quite high. That does improve somewhat when the engine is running. Probably battery voltage is too low for the system to run properly.
If changing the HU is enough to improve the quality, then the speakers and the J525 amp in the back aren't that bad after all... Perhaps the Concert can be improved internally too... That I still need to find out.


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## MXS (May 10, 2010)

TT-driver said:


> Perhaps the Concert can be improved internally too... That I still need to find out.


The chip in the Concert is shite, cheapest option is an aftermarket replacement HU.


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

Could you be more specific: which chip is shite?


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

TT-driver said:


> Could you be more specific: which chip is shite?


The shite chip, obviously. 

I presume he means the amplification circuitry. I probably is a single chip these days.

I'm just looking at a new Kenwood DNX9480BT to replace the DNX7240BT I currently have. The main benefit is a better screen and significantly better satnav, including integration with EcoRoute HD. If you've not seen EcoRoute HD it's an OBDC box with Bluetooth that shows all the stuff you usually have liquid TT for, just on your Garmin satnav screen. It's just something else that the RNS-E can't do.


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## hope88 (Mar 25, 2011)

Well as a comparison I actually prefer my Q7 and TT BOSE compared to the B&o in the A6. At first I thought that it is the "low end" setup of the B&O as they come as standard on A6s but I was wrong...

Sure the pop up speakers looks and sounds good (good clarity, low distortion across wide volume range) but it seriously lacks the feeling of bass. Sometimes I am a little dissapointed in considering this is almost a £6k option!

Saying that, another letdown is that the MMI setup can't handle random tracks that well...


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

hope88 said:


> Saying that, another letdown is that the MMI setup can't handle random tracks that well...


Tell me about it! Turn that wheel FASTER! I have about 3000 tracks on my iPhone and navigating that is horrific. I almost dread getting into my Allroad after the TT. Touchscreen is so much easier.


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

wja96 said:


> TT-driver said:
> 
> 
> > Could you be more specific: which chip is shite?
> ...


In the 9 speaker set-up the amplification is taken care off by the amp in the back, not the concert radio itself. If changing the HU for instance by the RNS Audi sat-nav model and the sound quality improves, then yes it's the HU that makes the difference, but not the amp in the HU. Or would it be the pre-amp that can be improved, or is the MP3 to Wav converter crappy or the FM radio or the DA converter for the CD player? I'm pretty sure the concert radio is not built around just 1 chip.

Sometimes it's possible to improve sound quality by just replacing or adding a few parts. I guess no-one took a concert radio apart yet to see what's inside? It's a shame that they're a bit too expensive to just grab one from e-bay and start investigating.


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## muTTley (Mar 15, 2004)

TT-driver said:


> Sometimes it's possible to improve sound quality by just replacing or adding a few parts. I guess no-one took a concert radio apart yet to see what's inside? It's a shame that they're a bit too expensive to just grab one from e-bay and start investigating.


capacitors are a prime example - spending a few quid on some decent capacitors rather than the lowest quote chinese knock-offs can transform some equipment. rebuilt sky boxes and pvrs with upgraded components and switching power supplies have been well reviewed, though i'm not sure that the audi head unit is of sufficient quality to merit messing with it - better to buy a decent after market model.

btw is there any info on this new kenwood DNX9480BT - i can't find anything? typo for the 9280?


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

muTTley said:


> TT-driver said:
> 
> 
> > btw is there any info on this new kenwood DNX9480BT - i can't find anything? typo for the 9280?


Sorry, yes.

http://www.kenwood-electronics.co.uk/pr ... DNX9280BT/


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

muTTley said:


> capacitors are a prime example - spending a few quid on some decent capacitors rather than the lowest quote chinese knock-offs can transform some equipment. rebuilt sky boxes and pvrs with upgraded components and switching power supplies have been well reviewed, though i'm not sure that the audi head unit is of sufficient quality to merit messing with it - better to buy a decent after market model.


That's exactly the type of tweaking I have in mind. Integrated circuits usually aren't that bad and beefing up the power supply may help too, especially because the wire between the battery and the radio is quite long.

Changing unit is no option for me. To risky for theft. And I like the original looks. For me tweaking is the way forward.


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## muTTley (Mar 15, 2004)

this might be an interesting project - i'm not a big fan of the oblong aftermarket units in the more curved tt dash panel so if you go ahead then please keep the forum updated.

if it was home hi-fi i'd be looking at maybe audyn or audionote capacitors (copper or tin) - the silver mica might be more neutral for a car enviroment, but expensive. you might need to experiment or research on the best option to compensate for the noise/frequency absorbtion in the cabin. as you say a beefier power supply would be a good idea too and i'd look at the dac chip.

tbh i suspect that the susbstitution of any decent components would improve things no end. the dashpod debacle showed that electronics are not audi's strong point - god knows what horrible cheap rubbish is in the head unit...


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

The Concert HU is produced by Blaupunkt in Portugal. That doesn't guarantee anything, but at least I suspect it doesn't contain the cheapest electrolytic capacitors with Chinese chemical waste in them. But there may be a huge lack of electrolytic capacitors causing lack of dynamics. (batteries are slow when it comes to dynamics, so that needs to be compensated.)

And whatever electrolytic capacitor might be in there, may also be in series in the signal path. :x

Cooling might be an issue too. Hot components can introduce distortion. Enough to investigate, even before considering changing ICs. It's just that I need at least a detailed high resolution picture from the circuit board before making any kind of judgement. And since my Concert was recently replaced under warranty because of the CD-Error, I'm reluctant of breaking the warranty seal that is attached to it very soon. In case it goes TTs up again I want to be able to claim another one.


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## brad_TTS (Feb 3, 2010)

hope88 said:


> Well as a comparison I actually prefer my Q7 and TT BOSE compared to the B&o in the A6. At first I thought that it is the "low end" setup of the B&O as they come as standard on A6s but I was wrong...
> 
> Sure the pop up speakers looks and sounds good (good clarity, low distortion across wide volume range) but it seriously lacks the feeling of bass. Sometimes I am a little dissapointed in considering this is almost a £6k option!
> 
> Saying that, another letdown is that the MMI setup can't handle random tracks that well...


Interesting you rate the BOSE over the B&O, i have BOSE in the TTS and whilst i think its ok, it is definately way below par compared to other manufacturers systems.

I had an A5 courtesy car a few months back (while the TTS was having the BOSE amp replaced) and it had B&O system in it. Had that car for a week and IMHO it killed the BOSE system hands down in every range.
You could just keep turning it up and up and the sound was amazingly clear, even my passengers commented how good they thought it was.


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## muTTley (Mar 15, 2004)

TT-driver said:


> Cooling might be an issue too...


good point - i'm assuming the unit is passively cooled ie no dedicated air feed, so even a small power increase might result in a serious temperature spike.

might best not to use the beeswax/paper type capacitors just in case 

i'm quite serious about my home hi-fi and i've never rated the audi head units at all, but i'd always found the mk 1 TTs too noisey to bother trying to improve the sound. my new TTS is definitely a more refined animal, much quieter in terms of engine and road noise so i'll be doing some research on a replacement HU. at the moment wja96's kenwood suggestion looks pretty good.

pity they didn't give you the old, bust concert to play with...


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

So I opened up the Concert radio today. Top is easily removable, two screws and carefully peel it off. Bottom (there where the larger (non smd) components are soldered) cannot be removed without removing God knows what and two screws. So that could only be bend open a bit. I saw at least 6 electrolytic capacitors which seemed coupling capacitors to me. At least they were way to small to play a role in the power supply. 2 of them close to the AM/FM receiver, so probably 'the end' of the radio part, 4 of them close together with some other circuitry not too far from the power amp. Perhaps the pre-amp stage, 4 channels. 
And they were all very tiny. Couldn't even read the capacity.

I managed to bypass each of them a small Wima MKS4 capacitor. There was just enough space between the housing and the circuit board. It's not the best bypass capacitor but at least it is one and it fits. The better ones would never fit. Putting in proper capacitors? Forget it.

Power supply is buffered by 3300uF capacitors, one for the power amp, one for the rest. That is not too bad. Especially since the power amp isn't used in mine. It uses the 5 way amp in the back instead. I could increase the size of the capacitor but there was no room for tying one somewhere without drilling two holes and using a tie-rap. So I decided to leave as is, for now at least. Mounted the HU back in the car and it did not need the code 

So what's the result? Well it's a bit too soon to tell. Those Wimas do need some time to loosen up some how. I have experienced that before when using them. Usually takes a couple of hours playing time. But obviously I did play with the radio and CD for an hour or so and it does seem that the detailing in the sound got better. As expected not more bass but a bit more brightness and openness (in the treble area) for sure. That also helps opening up the rear speakers a bit, which is good as they always sound like they are behind curtains.

Worth it? Well the less than 2 euros on parts + 1 hour of my time, yes I suppose so. Will it be sufficient in order not to have to replace the HU? It depends on what you expect from in car entertainment.

The speaker grills do hold back a significant part of the sound and the way the speakers are mounted in the front doors is rubbish too. Way to far back, bad for mid freqencies. It's now clear to me why the Bose system has speakers higher up in the doors. 
If anything special occurs again regarding the Concert audio, I'll put it in this topic again.


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## dan_saviola (Aug 2, 2011)

I only have the Audi Concert base MMI unit. It would be good to get something to has track name text whilst improving the sound.

Anyone think it's worth the money and ruining the factory finish look?


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