# crank but no start - RPM sensor



## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

I have a "crank but no start" situation. I replace spark plugs because they are pretty old. I also replaced camshaft position sensor. Still does not start. I am using a blue tooth OBDII product called "MadPower" with the Torque pro android app. I see no fault codes. What I do notice on the Torque pro app is that the Throttle position and coolant temp gages are responding. The Revs remains at 0. The air conditioner code monitor shows a little flunctuation in RPMs and so does the dash gage. I am suspecting a crankshaft position sensor failure. It bit more of a pain to replace. Can anyone explain why I see RPM on the dash but not in the OBDII tool and if I should suspect the crank position sensor.
Thank you


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## outdoor stevie (Nov 24, 2013)

Normally when you are cranking the rev counter should show approx 300revs if not then the sensor should be replaced, can you hear the fuel pump priming up before you are cranking if not then its probably a fuel pump issue under the rear seat drivers side.

Stevie


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

The Rev counter on the climate control, C27, reaches about 130 while the OBDII interface shows 0. I don't recognize the sound of the fuel pump, but smell plenty of fuel after plenty of cranking.
Thanks for the response!


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, What about the rev counter in the dashpod, does that show revs when cranking ? If not replace the sensor
Hoggy.


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Hello Hoggy,
The dashpod rev counter moves to just below 500 while cranking. The OBDII shows 0 revs while cranking. The climate control, C28 (*corrected from C27) goes up to about 140. Other realtime data on OBDII shows ok data; Throttle position fluctuates and coolant temperature is equivalent to my garage temperature.
I was also experiencing a momentary drop in power when accelerating between 3000 and 4000 wth throttle about 3/4 way down.
I wonder if the OBDII is no reading correctly on the revs or if the dash and climate control and dash pod use a different input.
Thanks again outdoor stevie and Hoggy.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, Dashpod rev counter is usually used to check crank posn. sensor.
Hoggy.


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## outdoor stevie (Nov 24, 2013)

Since your rev counter needle is moving when cranking then that's good. You need to check if the fuel pump is priming before cranking it only primes for about 2 seconds when you turn the key to 'on' so you need to listen for it carefully! and you can only do it once every hour you don't get a second chance to hear it build up the pressure, so if your pump is very quiet you will need to remove the base of the rear seat and listen very carefully you should be able to hear it with the seat out, if not then you may have a fuel pump issue.
Have you replaced the fuel filter at all ever?

Stevie


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Stevie,
I had the fuel filter replaced quite a while ago, about 70,000 miles. I have 190,000 miles on this one. I do smell lots of fuel after trying to crank a couple times. I get no spark at all.... I think the blue tooth OBDII scanner might not be working correctly. Going to get an Autel wired one today. 
Thanks!!!
Ed


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

UPDATE:
The new Autel wired diagnostics scanner does report about 230 revs while cranking and not starting. The blue tooth did not report revs. I still smell fuel after about 3 long tries to start. Put car on 2 amp trickle charge until I can work on it again. Will look into a fuel filter replacement anyway, beside smelling fuel. Now that I spent all my extra money on diagnostic tools, I have to wait a few days before buying the new fuel filter. [smiley=bigcry.gif] 
Anything else that this could be and not throw a code? Ignition? Mass Air???
Thanks,
Ed


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Folks,
New fuel filter put in. Still does not start.
"Crank but not start" condition persists.
One thing that I had done recently, was many vacuum hoses were brittle and leaking. Had them replaced in the shop.
Ran great for 2 weeks. Had slight hesitations sometimes between 3,000 and 4,000 rpm with throttle down past 3/4 of the way. Then suddenly one morning about to drive to work, just sputtered briefly and since then not even a hint of a spark happening. 
My OBDII's, both of them, show no codes, show rpm is ok at about 230 while cranking. I replaced the cam position sensor. I also replaced the spark plugs.

Any more ideas and also how to test the ignition system?

thank you very much,
Edward


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

OUTTEA said:


> Any more ideas and also how to test the ignition system? thank you very much, Edward


Hi, Remove fuse 32 for injectors.
Remove a plug, connect it back in coil, earth plug on cam cover/engine somewhere, while spinning engine over plug should spark.
Have you checked Fuses No. 10,32,34 & 43. Have you checked you have fuel at the injectors.
Have you checked the engine control relay J271. No 2 relay under the bonnet.
Hoggy


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Hoggy,

I did check fuses 10,32,34 & 43. They are listed as:
10 - 10A - S-Contact (don't know what S-contact means)
32 - 10A - Engine timing: petrol
34 - 10A - Engine timing: petrol
43 - 10A - Engine timing: petrol

I also checked #28 - 20A Fuel pump
29 - 15A - engine timing: petrol
37 - 20A - engine timing: petrol
all are OK!
I'm alone so doing the spark check will have to wait.
I'm very curious about the J271 No. 2 relay.
I did some research and believe I found this relay. I am not sure how to test it or which of the two relays it is.
They are located in a small plastic box under the hood (bonnet for you?) I took a pic and attached. They are numbered 100 black and 428 gray. Are one of these the J271 No. 2 relay????
The reading I did indicates this could be the problem.
thanks Hoggy for taking your time to reply and read.
Edward


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

With 4 small jars you can lift the fuel rail and crank to check fuel delivery.

Also I'd say remove the fuel pressure regulator and check its gauze's are not completely blocked.

Hoggys spark check is worth doing any neighbour you could borrow to crank while you can look at the plug?

Where are you based maybe a forum member is local to help

or a test you may be able to set up with cable ties in some form to hold some thick cable on the exposed plug thread and connect to ground and then try in the dark so you can look for the spark from the drivers seat looking through the windscreen

With cable you should be able to position the plug to be in line of sight

Looks like left hand drive so ignition switch means sitting inside I guess.


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## LesRSV (Jul 5, 2017)

Hi, if I might chip in here,the two relays shown in your pic the left hand one marked 100 is the SAI pump relay and the right hand one is the j271. oddly the Bentley manual confirms this but shows the relays in the opposite position :?: hope that helps


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

LesRSV said:


> Hi, if I might chip in here,the two relays shown in your pic the left hand one marked 100 is the SAI pump relay and the right hand one is the j271. oddly the Bentley manual confirms this but shows the relays in the opposite position :?: hope that helps


Hi, As above. 
You will need another pair of hands but you should hear/feel relay pull in as Ign switched on.
There is also the recent problem of corroded wires at ECU causing a no start prob, when everything appears O.K. 
Hoggy.


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Hoggy,

The corroded wires on the ECM. Would that be the connections under the windshield wiper where I think the ECM is tucked away at?

I'll be working on this a bit more on Friday and Saturday. Really miss driving my little OUTTEA.

thanks all for all the ideas etc. so far!


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

OUTTEA said:


> Hoggy,
> 
> The corroded wires on the ECM. Would that be the connections under the windshield wiper where I think the ECM is tucked away at?
> 
> ...


Hi, Yes, under the wipers, there have been at least 2 occasions when covering has been stripped back they have found corroded broken cables & the relay J271 has also been another cause.
Hoggy.


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Hoggy said:


> LesRSV said:
> 
> 
> > Hi, if I might chip in here,the two relays shown in your pic the left hand one marked 100 is the SAI pump relay and the right hand one is the j271. oddly the Bentley manual confirms this but shows the relays in the opposite position :?: hope that helps
> ...


I rigged up a test [see pic] for spark. There is no spark. Notice the driver extension in the plug hole. It has the old spark plug slightly screwed in. One of the cranks, I did get what seemed like one cylinder that fired. I have the new J271 relay in place also. We don't have much corrosion issues here in the desert, but I will look into finding the ECU and checking the wires.
thoughts?
thanks!!!
Ed


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

OUTTEA said:


> Hoggy said:
> 
> 
> > LesRSV said:
> ...


Got down into the ECM area to check for corrosion on connectors. Ran out of time tonight.
There is a bracket of some sort on the connector on the right that I have not seen in videos I found. Not sure how to get it out of the way so I can pull the plug on the right. I have not pulled the plug [longer one] on the left yet. 
The plastic tubes connecting the washer fluid broke off on the panel that I had to remove once the wiper arms came off. I think I can rig those tubes up, but what a pain in the arse. LOL See pics of the ECU for comments.
Thanks!
Ed


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Hello Folks,
Any ideas how to disconnect those big cables from the ECU to check for corrosion?
thanks!
Ed


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Ok Folks,
Got to spend a little more time on this situation:
I was able to check the condition of one of two connectors on the ECU (Computer). Really clean on the larger one inside. No sign of corrosion. The other seems to be factory sealed in the way the bracket in integrated. Appears I would have to split some metal welds to re-seat the other connector for inspection.
I was checking the fuseable links [see pic] and noticed that the middle cable has seriously oxidized inside the crimp on fitting. I found some description that show this fuse is for the cooling fan/control module. 
Any more hints tips would be appreciated.
thanks,
Ed


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Hoggy said:


> OUTTEA said:
> 
> 
> > Hoggy,
> ...


Hoggy,

The connector that I was able to pull has a plastic housing covering what appears to be a printed circuit board that has various cables going into it for the connector. Is this the area where you mention "covering has been stripped back"? It does look a bit dirty inside of the cover, but I did not remove it entirely as of yet.

Thanks,
Ed


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## outdoor stevie (Nov 24, 2013)

There has been the odd issue in the past with the cable going to the ECU, you need to strip the covering tape from the cable to examine the wires inside the cable as far down the cable as you can as the moisture gets in under the tape and rots the wire away over a period of time so gently cut and peel it away if one of the wires is rotten it will be fragile and may already be broken which is giving you the issue.

Stevie


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Stevie,

Thanks for the reply on this!
I had been using a blue tooth OBDII and a wired one, neither of which would show any errors. I used a different app [OBD Car Doctor Pro] for the blue tooth and saw the P0321 error in the pending codes. I have not replaced the crankshaft sensor because I would see about 230 reading on the climate control and the RPM on the dash would move a little. I did replace the cam shaft sense [easy one to do] already. I have yet to see any RPM on the OBD tools. So now I am wondering which ghost in the machine is exciting the RPM data. LOL! 
Could be another week until I replace the crank sensor and examine ECU cables, but of course, more feedback is always welcomed!
Cheers,
Ed


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## black9146 (Jul 3, 2014)

Hi, can't really offer anything other than to keep on trying. It's a pain trying to find a fault. But you will get there in the end. Usually something small


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## RQuattro88 (Feb 8, 2018)

Did you try popping your timing belt cover off and make sure the belt looks good?


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

black9146 said:


> Hi, can't really offer anything other than to keep on trying. It's a pain trying to find a fault. But you will get there in the end. Usually something small


thanks! I'm a computer engineer working as a software engineer. Painful and yes, it is usually something small


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

RQuattro88 said:


> Did you try popping your timing belt cover off and make sure the belt looks good?


Thanks! Yes I did in order to replace the cam shaft sensor. Looks to be in great shape yet. I think I have about 50,000 miles on it.


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Here is the latest folks.
I replaced the crankshaft sensor and no change 
I kinds suspected that I would not see a change since I do see the RPM on the dash moving while trying to start.
That was a serious pain to replace and would have been easier with the engine and intake manifold removed.
Back a weekend or two ago, I did the recommended inspection of the ECU wiring. When I put it back together, I have been getting a brief firing, perhaps on a couple cylinders for about 1/2 second. When before I would get not even a pop and just the smell of fuel.
I do here the relay for the fuel system clicking.
Before I had the vacuum hoses replaced, at times I would get this brief firing condition a few times and then I would get it started.

Thoughts?
thanks!!!


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Folks,
Worked another 5 hours on the situation today. Still no luck but more info to digest.
I pull the mass airflow (MAF) sensor and cleaned it. Was really filthy. See pic.
I put the MAF back in and it fired right up for about 2 to 3 seconds and still won't keep running.
I keep get a momentary start but dies.
The other thing I did was just to check the full pressure to the rail and the return pressure.
All I had to do with the supply line was almost remove it and had lots of fuel pressure that would spray. I only slight moved the hose off the metal fitting and was like a spray can. Sorry, I don't have a fancy in line gauge and my OBD somehow does not read fuel pressure.
My check on the return line was interesting. Nothing comes out of it. I put a tube to a collection bottle and nothing while I am trying to start it.
I think my fuel pump must be doing something in order to pressurize the rail, but don't know what to think about the absence of return pressure.

thoughts???
thanks very much!
Ed "who is dying to drive his TT again"


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## Pukmeister (Dec 27, 2017)

I assume you have checked each coil pack in turn for a spark and not just the one coil as pictured ?

Interesting how a MAF clean got it started for a few seconds? Perhaps by cleaning the maf you disturbed a bad connection somewhere, or the ecu told it to add more fuel?.

If you had it running for a few seconds, you must be getting close to the cause of the problem.


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Pukmeister said:


> I assume you have checked each coil pack in turn for a spark and not just the one coil as pictured ?
> 
> Interesting how a MAF clean got it started for a few seconds? Perhaps by cleaning the maf you disturbed a bad connection somewhere, or the ecu told it to add more fuel?.
> 
> If you had it running for a few seconds, you must be getting close to the cause of the problem.


Pukmeister,
thanks very much for pitching in.
I checked only one coil pack for a spark. But at this time, I do get a momentary start, so the spark plugs seem to be working. After the MAF got cleaned, it ran for 3 seconds and sounded good before it died. So I think the coils are working when they are told to do so.
I am wondering about the fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump and the injectors. I loosened the line from the fuel tank and seemed to be under good pressure. It would spray across the engine. I don't have a pressure gauge, but this seems to indicate the fuel pump must be doing something. 
It will now just fire maybe twice a cylinder and then die. It is acting like it is running out of gas, but I just haven't figured this out yet.
thank you sir or ma'am 
Edward


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## Pukmeister (Dec 27, 2017)

Edward, perhaps you have a partially blocked fuel filter that cant keep up with flow demand, or maybe even some water in the fuel from a leaking filler cap? Pressure regulator also sounds quite possible.

It does sound fuel related if it runs and dies.

Let us know what it is when you sort it. Good luck.

Adam


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Pukmeister said:


> Edward, perhaps you have a partially blocked fuel filter that cant keep up with flow demand, or maybe even some water in the fuel from a leaking filler cap? Pressure regulator also sounds quite possible.
> 
> It does sound fuel related if it runs and dies.
> 
> ...


Adam,
Thanks for the reply! I did replace the fuel filter. Wish I could have set my car on its side to do that! I live in the desert here, very dry and keep in the garage, so very little chance of a leaking filler cap.
One experiment I did was to disconnect the return line from the fuel pressure regulator and the crank it. Nothing came out of the line. Not sure what to make of that. I figure with pressure in the rail, then the fuel injectors should be able to let fuel in.
Back about 2 months ago, I had most of the vacuum lines replaced because lots were cracked and broken. It ran good for 2 weeks, but I did notice a drop in power when accelerating with greater than 3/4 throttle between 3200 to 4200 rpm.
Then one morning, just a momentary start, less than a second.

So far I replaced ECU relay, replaced fuel filter, replaced CAM sensor, replaced Crank sensor, cleaned MAF, checked for corroded wires at ECU large cable hook up and checked all the fuses.

I may have to study how the fuel regulator works to see about the test results from no return flow and perhaps get a fuel pressure gauge hooked up.

all the thoughts help!

Thanks,
Edward


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## Pukmeister (Dec 27, 2017)

If all other diagnostic efforts fail, is there any way of putting injectors into jam jars and getting an assistant cranking over to see how fuel is delivered ? I'm wondering if the fuel rail pressure is getting through the injectors but can't think why the fuel spill rail isn't returning any excess petrol. Just trying to think outside the box, I think you need to prove/disprove the fuel delivery from the injectors.

Obviously avoid sparks and ignition sources/naked flames. You dont want a torched car.


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Pukmeister said:


> If all other diagnostic efforts fail, is there any way of putting injectors into jam jars and getting an assistant cranking over to see how fuel is delivered ? I'm wondering if the fuel rail pressure is getting through the injectors but can't think why the fuel spill rail isn't returning any excess petrol. Just trying to think outside the box.
> 
> Obviously avoid sparks and ignition sources/naked flames. You dont want a torched car.


I have heard about using jars for the fuel, but need to see an example how to set it up. 
My thought is what is the proper pressure to make the fuel injectors and the regulator work correctly? Meaning, is my pump just weak?

thanks!
Edward


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## Pukmeister (Dec 27, 2017)

This is the part where the guys with turbo tuning experience can help, sorry but (as a V6 owner with no experience) I'm all out of ideas.


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Pukmeister said:


> This is the part where the guys with turbo tuning experience can help, sorry but (as a V6 owner with no experience) I'm all out of ideas.


Thanks for the words!
This one will be for the books when finally solved!


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## outdoor stevie (Nov 24, 2013)

Some pages from the Bentley manuel here as a resource it's well worth getting have a look and see if it helps!



























Stevie

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

outdoor stevie said:


> Some pages from the Bentley manuel here as a resource it's well worth getting have a look and see if it helps!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WOW! This is good stuff! I'll be going over this in detail and see what I can figure out.
I'll get back with status after I get more time on my car [OUTTEA}
Thanks so very much!!!
Ed


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Folks,
Here is an update. Still no start but interesting findings:
I replaced the fuel pressure regulator (FPR). The part that has the screen on it is cracked and apparently is dislodged 
compared to the new one. Noticed I had no fuel pressure when replacing the FPR.

Then I tried to start quite a few times and then pulled a plug and it was not soaked with fuel.
With more knowledge about the fuel system from the pics above and doing some studies, I pulled the fuel supply line from the metal tube that goes into the rail. A small spurt of fuel came out but then I kept removing the line and nothing more came out. I then propped up the line so to catch any fuel and turned the key on, I hear the relay and a slight click from the fuel pump under the back seat. I leave it for a minute, and then try to start a few times. Still no fuel. I read about an 1/8 of a tank on the gauge.
This is significant. Looks like it is fuel pump time if you all agree....
I don't know how this has been fooling me from troubleshooting before. I smell fuel after 5 or 6 times trying to start, so I think it is flooding. I thought I had fuel pressure when i slightly dislodged the fuel line, but it was probably some air pressure?
My return line had nothing, so I replaced the FPR.
Of course, the fuel pump is the most expense besides my time... 
Recommendations on fuel pump replacement part(s) and procedure? I did find a pretty good youtube someone made, but want to be careful of course.

Thanks!!!
Edward


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

OUTTEA said:


> outdoor stevie said:
> 
> 
> > Some pages from the Bentley manuel here as a resource it's well worth getting have a look and see if it helps!
> ...


All,

Thoughts on buying a new pump? Ones to avoid? Procedures that are best?

Thanks!

Ed


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## Pukmeister (Dec 27, 2017)

Have a forum search here mate, I've noticed a few threads on uprated fuel pumps from turbo owners doing boost mods and upgrades. You are sure to find some good info. I see the terms DW65V mentioned a lot. Maybe replace your fuel filter at the same time.

As an aside, could you remove your fuel filter and temporarily fit a straight pipe in its place then retest the fuel pump in case it is fine? It would be a shame to swap out a good fuel pump just for the sake of a blocked fuel filter.

Sounds like you are pretty close to sorting it out now.


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Pukmeister said:


> Have a forum search here mate, I've noticed a few threads on uprated fuel pumps from turbo owners doing boost mods and upgrades. You are sure to find some good info. I see the terms DW65V mentioned a lot. Maybe replace your fuel filter at the same time.
> 
> As an aside, could you remove your fuel filter and temporarily fit a straight pipe in its place then retest the fuel pump in case it is fine? It would be a shame to swap out a good fuel pump just for the sake of a blocked fuel filter.
> 
> Sounds like you are pretty close to sorting it out now.


Hi Pukmeister,
In this long thread I have caused, way up somewhere, I did replace the filter. At that time, i did not try to test the pump. But at least I got that in. I'll check out the threads you mention on the pumps and the DW65V.
Thanks!!!
Ed


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## outdoor stevie (Nov 24, 2013)

If you cannot hear the fuel pump priming then it is no good, a click is not it priming! if you only have a wee bit of fuel in the tank then that makes the job easier. The normal standard fuel pump is perfectly adequate for the job so just get one of those, it's a straightforward replacement as long as the gas in the tank is low try not to spill any as it will smell for a long time, you may need to pump some fuel out as it is not nice stuff to be working in, take care with the float sensors as they are a double jointed type and need to be folded up carefully in order to remove from the tank hole. There is a large rubber castellated sealing washer which you may need to replace if it is disturbed and won't fit back in its place, take some pictures as you go to help with reassembly.

Stevie


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

outdoor stevie said:


> If you cannot hear the fuel pump priming then it is no good, a click is not it priming! if you only have a wee bit of fuel in the tank then that makes the job easier. The normal standard fuel pump is perfectly adequate for the job so just get one of those, it's a straightforward replacement as long as the gas in the tank is low try not to spill any as it will smell for a long time, you may need to pump some fuel out as it is not nice stuff to be working in, take care with the float sensors as they are a double jointed type and need to be folded up carefully in order to remove from the tank hole. There is a large rubber castellated sealing washer which you may need to replace if it is disturbed and won't fit back in its place, take some pictures as you go to help with reassembly.
> 
> Stevie


Stevie,

Excellent pointers! I for this video quite useful 



.
I did not see exactly how to remove the seat. My tank is at 1/8, so that will help with the job.
Will provide some updates after I order and install.

Thanks!!!

Edward


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Folks,

I'm in trouble with the new fuel pump. The old fuel pump has 2 extra lines on it and a electrical connector.
The new one I bought is a Herko model 381GE. I talked to customer service on the phone before I ordered and they cross-checked my VIN # for the part. Looks like I could put my sending unit on the new one, but I am at quite a loss as what to do with the additional lines that I don't know where and what they do. See pics please. Now I am at a stand still with my fuel pump out.
Here is the new pump:
















Here is the old pump

























Please, what is going on here? What are the mysterious tubes and wire?

thanks!!!!
Edward


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## outdoor stevie (Nov 24, 2013)

Looks fine to me! Remember the TT has two sections to the fuel tank as the propshaft runs down the middle so the tank has a bridge in the middle to accommodate this, the pump balances the fuel between the two sides as you use it up, when I did mine they did not supply the plastic basket which surrounds the pump and I had to disassemble the old basket and remove the pump inside then put the new one inside so you may have to do something similair.

Have you checked the power to the pump since it is out anyway by plugging the electrics in and turning the ignition on and seeing if the pump spins and powers up, also check the electric connector with a meter on the two outside probes and when you switch on you should see power for a brief second or two.

Stevie


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

outdoor stevie said:


> Looks fine to me! Remember the TT has two sections to the fuel tank as the propshaft runs down the middle so the tank has a bridge in the middle to accommodate this, the pump balances the fuel between the two sides as you use it up, when I did mine they did not supply the plastic basket which surrounds the pump and I had to disassemble the old basket and remove the pump inside then put the new one inside so you may have to do something similair.
> 
> Have you checked the power to the pump since it is out anyway by plugging the electrics in and turning the ignition on and seeing if the pump spins and powers up, also check the electric connector with a meter on the two outside probes and when you switch on you should see power for a brief second or two.
> 
> Stevie


Stevie,

I'm glad you answered. I was going to drop off the pump for return this morning.
I'm not sure what exactly you mean by the basket. Maybe the part that touches the bottom of the tank? If so, that part looks removable with 3 release tabs.
The circular part that has the two pressurized lines at the top of the pump body are my concern. Is this part able to come off and put onto my new pump? It does not appear so, but could be possible with this basket removal. I can talk more pics to help us communicate if necessary. I spend $80 on the new pump, while the whole new pump costs $300 to $400.
Thank you!
Ed


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## outdoor stevie (Nov 24, 2013)

By the basket I mean the whites plastic that completely surrounds your pump the old one is sort of yellow stained colour, the pump itself is inside the basket so my idea was to put your new pump inside your old basket which you know fits, the pumps themselves should be identical if they are not then there may be an issue.

The other thing I thought of was perhaps you were supplied with the pump and basket for the front wheel drive version of the TT which I don't think has the two part fuel tank which may mean that the unit is different.

In fact your old basket has all of the clips and connections that your new one may not have and as long as you get the old pump out to fit the new one in then you should be fine, it's plastic and clips together so as long as you are gentle it should be good.

Stevie


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Stevie,
Found out that swapping the basket appears not to let me put in the new pump.
Notice the two pressure lines coming from the top of the pump. One of them is actually in the way of removing the pump from the basket. I broke the pressed on clamp, but to get that line off, I would have to destroy the line.








I did have the basket lose enough to see that the line was in the way. I would have to somehow swap the top of the pump with the top of the new pump. I don't want to destroy the new pump either to see if this works. I did take off the float assembly (sending unit) no prob. I think the new pump if for sure just for the front wheel drive type.
I did take the opportunity to bench test the pump hooked directly to the battery via the 4 male pin socket on the pump. It was really rough sounding and a couple times slowed way down, then sped up. A couple times it stopped spinning. I suspected the connectors to the top of the pump and hooked directly to the top of the pump. Still sounds quite sick, wavering in speed but oddly, did not stop spinning. 
Then in this pic








I "back seat bench tested" (fuel tank sealed of course) to check the electrical system. The pump turned on when it was supposed to when cranking. Still sounded quite pathetic, wavering but did not stop spinning. 
I do not ever recall actually hearing my fuel pump run before when my car was working. I figure the seat muffled the sound and I just was not familiar with the expected noise. Will be when I am through this...
Bench testing the new pump resulted in a much more healthier sounding pump with steady and quiet vibration.
I"m really at a loss as to how easy it should be to swap the pump assembly. Will try to gather the cash for new pump 
Probably won't be until another week, so got time for additional comments.
Very much appreciate all the help folks.
Ed


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

OUTTEA said:


> Stevie,
> Found out that swapping the basket appears not to let me put in the new pump.
> Notice the two pressure lines coming from the top of the pump. One of them is actually in the way of removing the pump from the basket. I broke the pressed on clamp, but to get that line off, I would have to destroy the line.
> View attachment 1
> ...


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## outdoor stevie (Nov 24, 2013)

Might help ya!!




























Keep at it lad! Every thing you do is getting closer to solving the problem.

Stevie

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

outdoor stevie said:


> Might help ya!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stevie,

AWESOME pages of the most coveted manual I desire!!!
Now I understand the secondary fuel pump is pressure driven from the main pump. It gets one of two manifolded pressure lines from the main pump. Don't know if the pressures are designed different, I would suspect so, if all is needed to drive an impeller to circulate the two fuel tanks. This is where a mechanic want to give a swift kick in the arse to the AUDI engineer who made this more complicated then it needed to be. Two floats??? Guess there is a voting algorithm in the ECU or whatever....

I put together a bench test for the old pump








Notice the Black tape is tube intended for secondary pump and red tape is primary supply. The return line is at the top and I had pre-filled it with a quart of fuel.
Ran for 5 minutes, nothing from either line. Filled up return line again, ran five minutes, still nothing out of either line from pump. I even pinched off the secondary supply line and still nothing out of the pump.
I would think this pump is dead. Sure makes some interesting noises wavering up and down in tone as it seems to speed up and slow down. I have a video of this as well if anyone is interested.

The main tank that I pulled the pump from has a few inches of fuel in it. This could be an indication the secondary pump was getting pressure to run back when the fuel pump worked. The image in the book depicts the unique situation where the secondary pump fails and the main tank with the pump goes dry. So I think my secondary must have been working.

So that is where I am at now. Looks like I should save my pennies and order the new and correct pump.
Thoughts are always welcome and deeply appreciated.

Ed


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## outdoor stevie (Nov 24, 2013)

It is a good manual to show how things work it doesn't explain how to take things to bits but really helps sort things out in ones head to understand what is happening.
The bench test is only good to see if the pump is running not to see it pick up fluid I think,that lack of a pressure environment may be stopping yours from sucking up fuel as remember the tank is a sealed environment and the pressure builds up in order to suck fuel out if you see what I mean, but your pump with non constant running sounds like its on the way to the graveyard, keep fiddling and working and I'm sure you'll sort it.

Stevie


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## OUTTEA (Feb 12, 2011)

Folks!

I did not die under my car!
Root cause was the fuel pump. I ordered from www.rockauto.com. $8 shipping and still $30 less than Amazon prime's best price.
This was quite the ordeal and I learned a lot thanks to you all.
Just took me a while to save about $220 for the fuel pump. Been on a really tight budget during this time.

The old pump actually would pump. I figured out the black wire on the pump was the positive lead. I was running backward before during a bench test. LOL! 
Hooked up properly, it would pump, but would not sustain pressure.

Other parts replaced:
Spark Plugs
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Crankshaft Sensor
Camshaft Sensor
Fuel Filter

The manual pics came in really handing in understanding the dual tank system and the little arrows to properly line up the pump when installing.

Running the best it has in a long time!

I really am thankful to you all!
May the Force be with you.

Edward Sadzewicz
TI-19045 501st.com


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## outdoor stevie (Nov 24, 2013)

Hey Ed well done lad! I know it takes a while to fix but it sure is a good feeling when you fix it yourself so great that you kept at it. Where abouts in the world are you as this is a proper global community and everybody wants to help.

All the best

Stevie


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## black9146 (Jul 3, 2014)

Well done Ed, we all knew you would get there in the end


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