# BT Openworld and ADSL 'points'



## snaxo (May 31, 2002)

GRRRRR.

I have an 'engineer installed' BT OpenWorld ADSL service installed in my house - connection socket in 3rd bedroom. Works fine.

I have now bought a Netgear Wirless Modem / Router / Gateway (an extremely slinky piece of kit, gadget fans... ;D ) and so I duly plugged that through a Microfilter downstairs in the front room - where I wanted it placed (I have wireless cards for my Laptop and Desktop). The X-Box will be plugged into it there. DOESN'T WORK !

And why? Well there was me labouring under the assumption that once you had ADSL on your line you should be able to use Microfilters on ANY socket to use it. Apparently not. If you have an 'engineer assist' install it only works at the Master socket. And if you want the Master Socket moved sir it's Â£100.
No Sir you can't just enable other socket's in the house.

Is this true? Can you not just enable other socket's in the house ? Or are they just spinning me a line to get another Â£100?!

   [smiley=rifle.gif]

Damian


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## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

Yeah it's correct Â 

Engineer installations mean that they replace the master socket with a new one that has the filter built in. Out of the new socket is the filtered phone line that goes through the rest of the house and a data socket.

I had the same problem - they terminated the DSL line downstairs but I wanted it upstaires - so I just ran some Cat5 cable up the outside of the house behind the drain pipe, terminated witha RJ11 plug on one end and a new RJ11 wall socket in the computer room.

*edit* Ummm - why not just have the wireless router/modem where the current DSL connection is?? If it's a good wireless product then you'll still get coverage through the house ???


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## snaxo (May 31, 2002)

Thanks Kevin,

The reason for not having the Wireless connection there is because of the X-Box and forthcoming X-Box live service Â ;D. Â The X-Box is going to require a direct ethernet connection into the Router. Â I don't think you can get a Wirless card for an X-box, unfortunately .....!

Re: the cabling you did - sounds like a plan. However if I attempt to do it, I'll cock it up. Me and DIY do not get along...!

Damian


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## phil (May 7, 2002)

You should be able to move the master socket without too much problem. Or alternatively you could reroute on of the phone extensions so that it's connected before the built in microfilter, rather than after. You'll need a filter at the other end if you want to plug a phone in though. This of course assumes that it's the phone that needs the filter rather than the ADSL. I can't remember offhand.

What sort of wireless stuff did you get damian? and how much did it all cost? I'm considering it myself because I'm a bit fed up lugging a cable around the flat to connect my thinkpad. 
I'm looking at getting just a wireless PCI card to put in my router (which is just an old PC) and a PCMCIA card. Also want to pay as little as possible, cos I'm tight.


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## snaxo (May 31, 2002)

Cheers Phil,

>>should be able to move master socket without too much problem

I'm sure but it assumes you have a least a little bit of a clue about what you are doing !

This is what I got....

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products ... _uid=44047

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products ... _uid=27454

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products ... _uid=23667



Cheers,

Damian


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## phil (May 7, 2002)

Cheers damian. The router looks a bit steep, but I already use a PC to do the job (supplied by work). The whole lot seems a lot cheaper than it did a few months ago when I last considered.

Go on. Have a shot at wiring. If you f*** it up you can post here and we'll laugh at you.


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## snaxo (May 31, 2002)

> Cheers damian. The router looks a bit steep, but I already use a PC to do the job (supplied by work). The whole lot seems a lot cheaper than it did a few months ago when I last considered..


It's a good price for this gear - you can pay over Â£200 for this Router from some places. And it's very aesthetically pleasing which us TT owners all warm to of course Â  Â 
Interestinly, if you have a cable modem (generaly supporting PPPoE) rather than a BT USB ADSL Modem (supporting PPPoA) - you can get an equivalent product (Linksys) for another Â£70 cheaper Â :-/ Â Doesn't look as nice though Â ;D



> Go on. Have a shot at wiring. If you f*** it up you can post here and we'll laugh at you


You're all heart mate ! Â [smiley=devil.gif]

Damian


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## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

<ahem>" cable modem (generaly supporting PPPoE)" Cable modems use DHCP, PPPoE is used for DSL in most of the rest of the world, except the UK (unfortunatly) 

Phil - if you already have a PC set up as a gateway with your other machine connected to it then your solution is easy...
get either a USB or PCI wireless NIC for the gateway/router PC and a PCCard NIC for the laptop.
Reconfigure the router PC to also use the wireless NIC on the LAN (configuration wil be dependant on what OS and SW is used on the router PC). Configure both wireless NIC's to ad-hoc mode and you're away!!
easy!

(strange how a flameroom thread turns into one that we see often on the off-topic!!  )


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

BT are not my favourtie people at the moment  !!


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## snaxo (May 31, 2002)

> <ahem>" cable modem (generaly supporting PPPoE)" Cable modems use DHCP, PPPoE is used for DSL in most of the rest of the world, except the UK (unfortunatly) Â


Oh. Fair enough. I may have been 'picking up' on the wrong aspect....from what I was looking at - it seemed that many devices were not compatible with BT Openworld - because that requires PPPoA support. I logically thought therefore that the Cable providers DSL modems were PPPoE compliant....
I didn't realise that PPPoE and DHCP were like technologies? Then I'm no networks person.

DHCP server's allocate IP addresses don't they ? What does PPPoE do exactly ? Isn't it just about establishing a point<>point connection over Ethernet ? (as the name would suggest?) i.e. secure transmission between two defined points? (Would the points not be defined via the DHCP server?)

Anyone awake now...? Sorry Kev don't really know what I'm on about here but slightly interested (as I started it !)

Damian

Damian


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## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

Waaay off topic... but anyway :

To connect to an ISP they need to authenticate you.
To do that they have different ways, depending on the medium used, and the technology the ISP / TelCo want to use.
Obviously for dial up you authenticate with a username/password.
For cable you normally authenticate with the MAC address of the NIC (or gateway). The ISP knows what you're registered MAC address is and when you request an IP address via DHCP it checks your MAC address, and gives you an IP address is it recognises you.
For DSL, PPPoE or PPPoA is used. PPP is indeed Point to Point Protocol, not used for encryption (that's PPTP: Point to Point Tunneling Protocol).
PPP uses a username and Password (actually dial up normally uses PPP as well).
PPPoE = PPP over Ethernet, PPPoA = PPP over ATM - depends on whay equipment the ISP / TelCo use. Most of the world use PPPoE - i.e the authentication is done from an Ethernet end station. Inthe UK we use PPPoA - it's actually (well, sort of)ATM that comes out of the wall socket.
For PPPoE you have a "dumb" DSL modem that converts the DSL signal to ethernet, then you have a PC or a router that has a PPPoE client on it to authenticate.
Because the UK uses PPPoA the modems must be part of the PC (i.e. the USB modem BT give out), there can be no ethernet between the ISP and the PPPoA client.
The router will do the PPPoA authentication before presenting a ethernet connection to your LAN.


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## snaxo (May 31, 2002)

Thanks Kevin.

Off Topic but educational. I work for IBM but as the years have moved on I have become less and less technical. 5 years ago I would have known about all this stuff. Now I spend most of my time worrying about meeting business targets and doing staff reviews / development plans etc ! The technical edge has drfited slowly but surely over the years...

I'm with you on all of this except, don't Cable modems as supplied by NTL,Telewest plug directly into the the ethernet port on PC's?

Damian


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## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

> I'm with you on all of this except, don't Cable modems as supplied by NTL,Telewest plug directly into the the ethernet port on PC's?


yep.
The modem is dumb - no configuration is required for it - it just converts ethernet to the cable signals.
The MAC address of the NIC in your PC is registered with the ISP - the PC does a DHCP client request that goes through the cable modem to the ISP. ISP receives the DHCP request - looks at the MAC address of the card where the request comes from - checks that the MAC address is valid and gives a IP address.


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## snaxo (May 31, 2002)

Ahh..it's all flooding back. Thanks Kevin. ;D

Damian


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