# Tossers



## jampott

[smiley=end.gif]


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## scoTTy

I don't think it's quite that bad! :roll:


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## vlastan

Great job Paul. Well done.

I am sure you feel proud of yourself that you resolved the complain to everybody's satisfaction by removing the right of free speech.

And as Wak have explained to you before, referring things to Jae is so immature. You are unable to make decisions for yourself and although, you try to stop the rest of us from expressing our views, you just delegate responsibility to Jae, who in my view he is not bothered about issues like this so much.


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## genocidalduck

Change the record!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its a picture for crying out loud, i know i'd rather look at that picture than here you go on about the joys of fudge packing! so who are you to moan that its offensive when you talk about S### like that. Hypocrit comes to mind!


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## vlastan

As I said before, different things offend different people. And you have to accept it this as we are all different humans with different backgrounds and ideas. Something that upsets you, may be normal to me and I may even like it. Why don't you accept that we are all diverse people?


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## genocidalduck

well the picture is funny to me so why dont you accept it


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## vlastan

genocidalduck said:


> well the picture is funny to me so why dont you accept it


 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Same as it was funny to me to talk about other things...but I was chased away like a bad wolf lurking at the sheep of the village. :wink:


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## mighTy Tee

genocidalduck said:


> well the picture is funny to me so why dont you accept it


So you think a picture of some old woman obviously gesturing "F**K YOU" is suitable for family forum?

And then we have another example of wrong forum: I know this is the wrong place....


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## jdn

mighTy Tee said:


> So you think a picture of some old woman obviously gesturing "F**K YOU" is suitable for family forum?


Or a forum many view at work - and such a picture may be hard to explain.

I wonder if the moderators know each other too well to have the gumption to force a change? Hence deferral to Jae. What is clear is that if it was a non-moderator the avatar would have been pulled.

Suprised DIRY hasn't offered a view - he comes across as a decent sensible moderator who appreicates the opinion of forum folk and does his best to help out where he can.


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## scoTTy

jdn said:


> I wonder if the moderators know each other too well to have the gumption to force a change? Hence deferral to Jae. What is clear is that if it was a non-moderator the avatar would have been pulled.
> 
> Suprised DIRY hasn't offered a view - he comes across as a decent sensible moderator who appreicates the opinion of forum folk and does his best to help out where he can.


I don't give a toss whether a poster is a mod or not. I try to mod fairly across the board. It's quite offensive that you think I am biased like that. :?



vlastan said:


> Great job Paul. Well done.
> 
> I am sure you feel proud of yourself that you resolved the complain to everybody's satisfaction by removing the right of free speech.
> 
> And as Wak have explained to you before, referring things to Jae is so immature. You are unable to make decisions for yourself and although, you try to stop the rest of us from expressing our views, you just delegate responsibility to Jae, who in my view he is not bothered about issues like this so much.


As was pointed out in the thread I've better things to do with my time than keep removing swear words. I said what would happen if swear words were entered again and they were. There's no surprise that I then kept my word. Perhaps if people played by the rules rather than having a pop at moderators for simply emforcing them this forum would run along easier. I'm not sure why some people think it's part of the game to waste mods time and bait them when all we are is normal users who have been asked by jae to enforce the rules.

As to being proud of removing a thread I don't even understand where you're coming from. Nothing would make me happier than to never have to moderate anything as that would be people are acting within the rules.

With regards this thing about referring to Jae maybe you missed what I posted earlier.

The moderators can not change any signatures.

One minute I'm accused of sideing with Kev and being biased because he's a moderator and then when I put this to the ONLY person who can decide whether to do anything about it then apparently I'm unable to make decisions.

It just proves you can't keep everyone happy all the time.

p.s. It's funny that coz I try to do something I get the grief. I guess everyone would prefer no rules and no mods. :?

p.p.s. Ultimately this is Jae's forum. He owns it, operates it, sets the rules and has the responsibility of it's contents. If you're unhappy with that then there's not a lot a mere moderator can do about it.


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## jdn

Not intended to offend but that is the way it comes across.

Have you notified KMPowell of this thread and that people find his avatar offensive? Given that he has not replied to the thread he either does not know or does not care. Surely 'passing on to Jae' would also warrant his notification?

As a moderator, what are your views on the Avatar? Do you agree it is potentially offensive and innappropriate? If so, then why not state the fact that as a moderator you agree with a few forum members and advocate its removal - either by KMPowell or Jae.

I get the impression KMPowell deliberately chose the avatar to provoke - as is his want sometimes, and fair enough. But if a few forum folk complain that they view it as innapropriate it would be nice to know where other moderators stand on the issue, and what they are doing about it.

If you agree it is innappropriate then perhaps a quite word in KMPowells ear could save all this bother..

:?

PS. I think there is more debate surrounding the principle rather than the actual image - let's face it, it could be a lot worse. However, as a work user of the forum it is not an ideal avatar.


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## jonah

I don't know why your all giving Scotty a hard time :? He wasn't the one who moved the thread and he's done all he can by refering it to Jae.
How many of you have actually E-mailed Jae about this issue :? If it bothered you all that much that is the course of action you should of taken instead of causing all this friction.
We all know Kev likes to push the bounderies somestimes just to get a reaction or to stir things up and that's just Kev.

Jonah


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## scoTTy

In answer to your questions :

Yes Kev is aware of it.

I'm not sure whether it could be classed as offensive to the majority or not. I'm sure one or two will be offended but if anything posted that could potentially be offensive to one or two was banned then the site wouldn't have a lot of content. This thought came up after the Pope thread which Kev actually removed himself but Jae said it should have been left. As I say I'm not sure. It doesn't offend me but as I said in the other thread it seems to offend a few people hence I escalated it. If I did nothing then I'd be accused of siding with Kev (oh! I have anyway) and if I escalted it I could be accused of not making a decision (oh! guess what!)

You ask what moderators are doing about it. I've posted very clearly what I'm doing about it. It doesn't any other mod is though.

I'm also surprised why this has all come up now when the sig pic has been there for ages. One could almost think that someone saw an opportunity to have a pop at Kev and did so. It also seems since I'm the only mod to stick my head above the parapit I'm the one taking the flack.

As I've said it's been sent to Jae. I've personally spent enough on this thread and the other repeating myself so I hope I'll be able to leave it alone until we have some sort of judgement from the only person who can decide on it.


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## vlastan

> The moderators can not change any signatures.


But this is not what we are asking for.

I would expect you to know the process by now of dealing with offending avatars/signatures that don't meet the forum guidelines. But as you don't seem to remember I will outline them to you once again.

In the past a lot of avatars and signatures that failed the forum guidelines, had to be changed or deleted. Not a single one required Jae's help. Normally a forum member raises a complain (just in case the moderators didn't realise that something was not appropriate) then the moderator will send an IM to the offending people advising them that their avatars or signatures do not obey the forum rules and that it has to be changed. The offender will then normally change it.

So there is a process that worked in the past several times without Jae's help. Why isn't this process working here too?

Examples like this clearly demonstrate your inability to deal fairly with all complaints and comments and provide evidence of favouritism between the selected few moderators.


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## scoTTy

You are talking utter rubbish. The fact that Kev is aware of this and doesn't intend to change his sig does not imply I am dealing with any one unfairly. You are out of order to even suggest it when as you know I am absolutely powerless to do anything about it.

Your definition of "evidence" is 100% flawed. You are spouting garbage and since I believe it's for other motives I won't reply to this any longer and will leave it to other mods.


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## vlastan

I have no other motives! This is a genuine complaint that has been supported with more people and not just from me.

I just hope that if someone fails the avatar/signature guidelines in the future, you won't haunt them for this.


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## clived

vlastan said:


> The moderators can not change any signatures.
> 
> 
> 
> But this is not what we are asking for.
> 
> I would expect you to know the process by now of dealing with offending avatars/signatures that don't meet the forum guidelines. But as you don't seem to remember I will outline them to you once again.
> 
> In the past a lot of avatars and signatures that failed the forum guidelines, had to be changed or deleted. Not a single one required Jae's help. Normally a forum member raises a complain (just in case the moderators didn't realise that something was not appropriate) then the moderator will send an IM to the offending people advising them that their avatars or signatures do not obey the forum rules and that it has to be changed. The offender will then normally change it.
> 
> So there is a process that worked in the past several times without Jae's help. Why isn't this process working here too?
> 
> Examples like this clearly demonstrate your inability to deal fairly with all complaints and comments and provide evidence of favouritism between the selected few moderators.
Click to expand...

Nick, it only works if the member changes their avatar themselves... given everything ScoTTy has told you about what he's done so far, is it not 100% obvious that this hasn't happened? How you can take Kev's decision not to change his sig as evidence of "favouritism" is beyond me. There is NOTHING that any moderator can do here - mods cannot change the sigs of other members. ScoTTy has raised the issue up to Jae for him to make a decision and take action if he feels the need. What else would you have any moderator do in this situation that would not, to you, indicate favouritism?


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## Dont I Recognise You

jdn said:


> .......Suprised DIRY hasn't offered a view.........


Thank you 

I haven't got involved in this, 'cos Scotty has been doing / has done all that can be done at moderator level


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## jampott

Clive,

Can you not politely ask Kevin to change his avatar, which some people find offensive?

Personally, the picture itself doesn't offend me, but I *do* find the fact that there IS obvious favouritism offensive. If anyone else had that avatar, they'd be asked to remove it. My words on here are often censored, but other people's aren't...


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## saint

Does not offend me either - but as said already KMP knows what he is doing and knows that his choice of avatar would provoke this sort of reaction. He constantly just seems to want to stir things up - again nothing wrong with that - but it he is a mod afterall.

If I were the other mods I'd quickly remove all toys from his room and lock him in until teatime.


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## clived

jampott said:


> Clive,
> 
> Can you not politely ask Kevin to change his avatar, which some people find offensive?
> 
> Personally, the picture itself doesn't offend me, but I *do* find the fact that there IS obvious favouritism offensive. If anyone else had that avatar, they'd be asked to remove it. My words on here are often censored, but other people's aren't...


Tim, I thought it was pretty clear that it's been suggested, he doesn't want to, and so it's been referred to Jae?

As for editing of words, I'd say you're probably one of a group of people more likely to include a "swear word" in a post outside of the flame room, so maybe that's why you feel your posts are edited often? Of course, if you find other posts with unacceptable words in, and you don't think that it's too ironic for you to do  drop a mod an IM. Posts only get modded when they get noticed


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## vlastan

As I said earlier on, Jae is not interested in this.

He posted today about the server update in this room but he didn't reply to this thread.

It is a real shame that Kevin doesn't care about what we think. And if nobody can do anything about it, then if I use a more "interesting" avatar in the future, please don't come after me. :wink:


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## clived

So if you think Jae is the problem, why are you giving the moderators such a hard time?


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## vlastan

I didn't say that Jae is the problem.

Scotty likes to refer any difficult problems to Jae and I have been telling him that this isn't working as Jae has other things in his mind.

Although, I do understand that this is a difficult situation as Kevin is a moderator and doesn't care about anything, which is not appropriate for a moderator.

So lets say it was me that I was displaying an offending avatar and I didn't want to change it...what would you do to make me change it?


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## Dont I Recognise You

V - a little unfair to single out Scotty there, I feel.

Ultimately, as has been pointed out inumerous times, the moderators are here to help enforce the rules which Jae has put in place, and which we ALL agreed to when we joined up.

That means that when something happens that is not covered by the rule set, we are not in a position to arbitarily decide what to do.

And there are some things (as you know), which, even if they DO break any rules, only Jae or the poster can do anything about.

Ultimately, it's Jae's site - and what he says, goes.

Which is why he is the ultimate place to go to if you (or anyone else) has a gripe with the way things are run.


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## clived

vlastan said:


> Scotty likes to refer any difficult problems to Jae and I have been telling him that this isn't working as Jae has other things in his mind.
> 
> ...
> 
> So lets say it was me that I was displaying an offending avatar and I didn't want to change it...what would you do to make me change it?


If there is an issue that a moderator is powerless to change, what would you suggest they do Nick, other than refer it the one person who can do anything? You seem to be forgetting that mods are working as Jae's "agents" if you like. If it's not clear to us what should be done, we're obliged to ask him. If he choses not to do anything, given it's his site, owner and operated, that's entirely his perogative. And if you, or I, or anyone doesn't like it, it really is tough.

There wouldn't be anyting a moderator could do to *make* you change it. But then, it's not a problem I've had - in the few situations that someone has complained to me about someone's avatar, and having discussed it with other mods I've asked them to change it, they have.


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## jampott

clived said:


> vlastan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Scotty likes to refer any difficult problems to Jae and I have been telling him that this isn't working as Jae has other things in his mind.
> 
> ...
> 
> So lets say it was me that I was displaying an offending avatar and I didn't want to change it...what would you do to make me change it?
> 
> 
> 
> If there is an issue that a moderator is powerless to change, what would you suggest they do Nick, other than refer it the one person who can do anything? You seem to be forgetting that mods are working as Jae's "agents" if you like. If it's not clear to us what should be done, we're obliged to ask him. If he choses not to do anything, given it's his site, owner and operated, that's entirely his perogative. And if you, or I, or anyone doesn't like it, it really is tough.
> 
> There wouldn't be anyting a moderator could do to *make* you change it. But then, it's not a problem I've had - in the few situations that someone has complained to me about someone's avatar, and having discussed it with other mods I've asked them to change it, they have.
Click to expand...

Yet Kevin won't. That speaks volumes. :?


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## garyc

You know that irritating f**ker at work,and there always is one, who uses impeccable logic and a thorough understanding of process to make a wholly irritating and unecessary nuisance of himself, just to make some silly point? Don't you just want to reach out and cuff the punctilious little twat, regardless of right and wrong? But you know it will only play into his hands....










As a moderator I wouldnt even give these arses 'the voice of reason' on this issue. It is neither amusing, interesting or salient to anything or anyone apart from the vocal few on here.


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## saint

yeah but no but yeah but no but yeah but no but...

could you repeat that please


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## Kell

I must admit that I don't find it offensive, but given that numerous people have expressed reasons why they think it is, then Kevin should be made to remove it or be banned.

However, no one should be having a go at any of the mods in this instance. If ScoTTy has asked Kev to change it and he won't then as he says there's nothing he can do about it other than refer it to Jae.

Those that find it offensive - have you tried PMing either Kev or Jae?

At the end of the day, this site is free to use and is mostly moderated by unpaid volunteers/pressgangees and if you're not happy with it, then you can always vote with your feet.

I know it seems unfair that other people have been asked to remove their sig pics and/or avatars and they've done it, yet Kev won't. All you can do is wait for Jae to get back in touch and make a decision. Until then, I think it's only fair that you leave the mods out of it.

Perhaps it outlines the need for for more rules in this instance. ie if five or more people complain about the same thing, then something HAS to be done about it.


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## jonah

Kell said:


> Perhaps it outlines the need for for more rules in this instance. ie if five or more people complain about the same thing, then something HAS to be done about it.


Vlastan would have a life ban in that case :wink:


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## jdn

Kell said:


> I must admit that I don't find it offensive, but given that numerous people have expressed reasons why they think it is, then Kevin should be made to remove it or be banned.
> 
> At the end of the day, this site is free to use and is mostly moderated by unpaid volunteers/pressgangees and if you're not happy with it, then you can always vote with your feet.


*Agree with the above, but think of it this way..*

You are a new TT owner, and have found a forum, sign up, and ask a question..



Newbie1 said:


> Hello to all in the land of TT,
> Can anyone help me?
> I have a 2001 225 sitting in my workshop that I cannot use (this is a crime) because it keeps overheating!
> I have done the normal fault finding and replaced the temp sender switch,
> also I had the water pump replaced as I have been told that they cause problems, but it still gets toooo hot!
> 
> It only seems to overheat when driving, not when in traffic or if you leave it to idle for as long as you like, the radiator cooling fans come on at the correct time.
> Could this be a false reading on the dash pod?
> 
> If anyone can help that would be great.
> 
> Cheers, Mark.


and you receive the following reply from a moderator of the site:



DIRY said:


> welcome aboard
> 
> Driving with the aircon in Auto, Econ or off?


complete with a picture of a nice TT.

*OR*



Newbie2 said:


> recently brought the TT armrst from 'the tt shop' and Im not impressed with it at all!
> Ive got black leather interior and the black on the armrest is totally different!
> Also - its qiute low down which makes it bit ineffective as an armrest...
> And on top of that.The armrest tends to be at a bit of a downward angle which makes it even lower...
> 
> I love the design and think it looks great! but it needs a bit more work...
> After all.. it is Â£200...


and you receive the following reply from a moderator of the site..



KMPowell said:


> The following 2 places will give you a full refund on your armrest and dispatch you a suitable replacement item:
> 
> www.imalazygitdriver.co.uk
> www.pipeandslippers.com
> 
> Armrests indeed!


complete with a picture of an old lady giving the universal gesture for F*** Y**

Which would you prefer?

Which is the most appropriate behaviour for a site moderator? - assumed to be a respected advocate of the forum.

PS. I have PM'd Jae - no reply yet.


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## digimeisTTer




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## justtin

jdn said:


> KMPowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> The following 2 places will give you a full refund on your armrest and dispatch you a suitable replacement item:
> 
> www.imalazygitdriver.co.uk
> www.pipeandslippers.com
> 
> Armrests indeed!
Click to expand...

Entirely predictable from him..... his standard responce to several posts about armrests..... [smiley=zzz.gif]


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## jdn

justtin said:


> jdn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KMPowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> The following 2 places will give you a full refund on your armrest and dispatch you a suitable replacement item:
> 
> www.imalazygitdriver.co.uk
> www.pipeandslippers.com
> 
> Armrests indeed!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Entirely predictable from him..... his standard responce to several posts about armrests..... [smiley=zzz.gif]
Click to expand...

Agreed. But if you are new to the forum and are not aware of this then it is not particularly welcoming or helpful.

Storm in a teacup - probably so.


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## Private Prozac

My 2p's worth:

I really can't see the issue here and I think V had an off day, saw the pic and thought 'I'll cause a scene about this'!

FFS, as previously mentioned, it's been there for weeks so why mention it now? Also, why start a thread about it and not go through the more polite route of pm'ing KMP or Jae?

Also, don't go on about it causing a problem at work. If you shouldn't be surfing the Forum at work then what's going to stick out more: a small avatar or a bloody great 30Mb pic of a TT that we've seen a few of recently?

V - You try and provoke with your comments and get banter/riddiculed in the thread. Why go to such an extreme for some poxy pic of a granny with her finger up?

It's not a 'Family Forum'. It's a Forum about the Audi TT in case you hadn't noticed and those that own one are adults. If you sit round the PC with your wife, kids, dogs and cats then you've got a bloody sad 'family' life.

Grow up the lot of ya and act like the adults you're supposed to be. There are worse and bigger things in life to get het up about than this!


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## justtin

auditt260bhp said:


> It's a Forum about the Audi TT in case you hadn't noticed and those that own one are adults.


So may be childish other marque owners should be banned.....

:wink:


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## genocidalduck

auditt260bhp said:


> My 2p's worth:
> 
> I really can't see the issue here and I think V had an off day, saw the pic and thought 'I'll cause a scene about this'!
> 
> FFS, as previously mentioned, it's been there for weeks so why mention it now? Also, why start a thread about it and not go through the more polite route of pm'ing KMP or Jae?
> 
> Also, don't go on about it causing a problem at work. If you shouldn't be surfing the Forum at work then what's going to stick out more: a small avatar or a bloody great 30Mb pic of a TT that we've seen a few of recently?
> 
> V - You try and provoke with your comments and get banter/riddiculed in the thread. Why go to such an extreme for some poxy pic of a granny with her finger up?
> 
> It's not a 'Family Forum'. It's a Forum about the Audi TT in case you hadn't noticed and those that own one are adults. If you sit round the PC with your wife, kids, dogs and cats then you've got a bloody sad 'family' life.
> 
> Grow up the lot of ya and act like the adults you're supposed to be. There are worse and bigger things in life to get het up about than this!


I totally agree!


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## saint

^

Family - inother words anyone can view this site - there are no 18+ warnings. SO...... kids can view it regardless of whether they own a TT or not. The implications are far wider than just KMPs avatar - but most of the points here are viewed that KMP is a mod and should atleast be trying to stay on the straight and narrow.

The avatar has not been here for weeks.

The Flame Room is for all the filth in this place - or atleast should be.... not proliferated throughout all postings.

Love

Sa|nt

(Age 15 3/4)


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## vlastan

> V - You try and provoke with your comments and get banter/riddiculed in the thread. Why go to such an extreme for some poxy pic of a granny with her finger up?


Why do you address this to me? Other's don't like it either. Why don't you respect this?

In the initial thread two or three people said that they were planning to start this thread as well. It just happened to be me that I started it.

As far as I can see nothing happened out of it yet and as expected Jae didn't comment, nor did Kevin.


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## vlastan

Finally...he changed it!!! That took him a while.


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## mighTy Tee

vlastan said:


> V - You try and provoke with your comments and get banter/riddiculed in the thread. Why go to such an extreme for some poxy pic of a granny with her finger up?
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you address this to me? Other's don't like it either. Why don't you respect this?
> 
> In the initial thread two or three people said that they were planning to start this thread as well. It just happened to be me that I started it.
> 
> As far as I can see nothing happened out of it yet and as expected Jae didn't comment, nor did Kevin.
Click to expand...

On this occassion Nick is 100% right

Maybe the reason niether Jae or Kev have responded is because they are mates :?


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## mighTy Tee

Hey Nick - KMP has finally changed his avatar. Maybe Jae did have a quiet word in his ear?


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## saint

mighTy Tee said:


> Hey Nick - KMP has finally changed his avatar. Maybe Jae did have a quiet word in his ear?


Echo echo echo echo (fade to silence)


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## vlastan

mighTy Tee said:


> Hey Nick - KMP has finally changed his avatar. Maybe Jae did have a quiet word in his ear?


I think he had no option really! He wanted to post the pics of his new car and the only way to do this was to change the avatar. So more or less he was forced. :lol:


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