# Grangemouth closure



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Bit of a shock, but ineos offered to invest to save the plant....employees not prepared to budge on pay freeze & end of final salary pensions. 800 out of work so far and all petrol has stopped being refined. Want some of our petrol Rodders? Or u gonna convert to LPG lol. Isn't funny I know, but why could the union not have seen this coming and advised members to accept the offer.


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

I doubt it will actually permanently close. It's not like the demand for petrochemicals is going down at the moment.

Well I hope it doesn't :?


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

I did suspect they would say they were closing it when it came to the impasse. I see now the union have offered to accept the deal to save the plant.


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

John-H said:


> I did suspect they would say they were closing it when it came to the impasse. I see now the union have offered to accept the deal to save the plant.


Yea, union and ineos have to the customary penis waving before serious practical negotiations.


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## Nyxx (May 1, 2012)

It was losing 10 million a month. Perhaps having a pay freeze for 2 years and no final pay pension was not asking to much to keep the plant going.
Now they have no income and no pension.


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Nyxx said:


> It was losing 10 million a month. Perhaps having a pay freeze for 2 years and no final pay pension was not asking to much to keep the plant going.
> Now they have no income and no pension.


I Think the union accepted all terms, like they always would. Now they are calling down ineos for "holding it's workers to ransom" how hypocritical! A union telling a company off for using ransom tactics, I nearly spat my cornflakes out!

you would think still having a job in this current financial mess we are in would be incentive enough. Thing is I bet most workers would have taken a pay freeze to save their jobs anyway, I know I would.

What disgust me the most is when shit like this is happening to most people the numpties running the country bleating garbage like "we are all in this together" are getting huge pay RISES. :x


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## CWM3 (Mar 4, 2012)

I have been through disputes like this, stood by the brazier, earning feck all, reaIsing I have been sold out, the only losers are the ill guided,misinformed workforce. They are just pawns in a class war.

The top bods in Ineos and Unite will still have plenty of cheer around their Christmas trees this year.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Unions were arses back in the 80's and even bigger now they losing favor with the country....glad to see common sense has prevailed and it's now cap in hand to agree with ineos package.


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

[smiley=mexicanwave.gif] [smiley=mexicanwave.gif] _Just heard the news on the telly._


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## CWM3 (Mar 4, 2012)

Unite and Alex Salmond are now scrubbing their tongues to get the stench of shite off, having had to go licking Jim Ratcliffes ass, who basically played a harder hand they they ever dreamed of, would not have looked good for a yes vote with nearly 10% of Scotlands manufacturing industry going pop.

Yet again further proof that governments do not run countries, corporations do.


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

I doubt he will get a yes vote, contrary to what most people south of the border believe Scotland in general doesn't want independence from the union. It's just the people that do tend to make more noise.


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

brian1978 said:


> I doubt he will get a yes vote, contrary to what most people south of the border believe Scotland in general doesn't want independence from the union. It's just the people that do tend to make more noise.


Maybe they will give the English a vote as well. Recall Quebec wanted similar in Canada. On the day Quebec voted No, and rest of Canada (in a mock with no weight) voted Yes... Put a stop to them wanting independence for ever.

Bet would be similar outcome here... :mrgreen:


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Shug750S said:


> brian1978 said:
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> ...


This shitty don't let the door hit you on the way out stinks m8, i hear it a lot from small minded English people its a typical arrogant attitude.

Would Scotland be better off independent? It's difficult to say, in the short term probably as we produce more money per head than anyone else in the UK, but longer term both sides would suffer in my opinion.

I doubt it would be like that, most people with 1/2 a brain know the UK is stronger as a unit. But I don't expect you to see that.


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

brian1978 said:


> Shug750S said:
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Jesus, calm down. As an Englishman who lays uni fees for my kids, prescription charges, and recently read that Scotland pays less tax than it gets from central government, can you blame me?

Your lot started all this independence stuff, not me, I believe in the UK, but would happily go with independence for London, as a tax subsidiser for the rest of the country.

And I do get it, so why so damn hostile? [smiley=bigcry.gif]

By the way, love the small minded, arrogant, comments. Thanks m8, sounds like you could start a fight in an empty room


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

Shug750S said:


> ............................. sounds like you could start a fight in an empty room


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Does anyone know the words to "Auld lang syne"?


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Shug750S said:


> Jesus, calm down. As an Englishman who lays uni fees for my kids, prescription charges, and recently read that Scotland pays less tax than it gets from central government, can you blame me?


I can only blame you for being ignorant to this situation, I hear this a lot.....

Firstly our prescriptions are pre paid NOT FREE, they are paid out of Scotland's budget, we like England are given a budget from Westminster, NOT England. We use that cash to pay for services. It's not like the English subsidise Scotland, I hear and read drivel like that regularly. England could pre pay prescription charges but choose not to. Same for tuition fees. It's your budget it's how you choose how to spend it.

As for Scotland paying less tax than it receives, technically yes. But....so does England and Wales and NI. The money comes from the budget deficit. Scotland receives about £3.1k per head and the rest of the UK under the same calculations receives about 2k.

BUT!, these figures ignore the North Sea oil, which is not normally considered part of Scotland's contribution. If this were challenged and assigned based on geography, then Scotland would be actualy contributing more income to the UK Government than it spends.

Scotlands population also pay more tax per head than the rest of the UK.

2011/12 Scotland contributed £56.9 billion in tax revenue, which is equivalent to £10,700 per person, compared to £9,000 per person for the UK as a whole;- since 1980/81 Scotland has contributed £222 billion more in tax revenues than if it had just matched the per capita contributions of the UK

So this rubbish that I frequently hear about " English money subsidising Scotland" is simply not true.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Don't know that verse - is that before or after you link hands?


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

John-H said:


> Don't know that verse - is that before or after you link hands?


The reason Scots don't know the words to auld Lang syne is because the only time we hear it is about midnight on the 31st December and we are all too pished to remember what our last drink was, never mind the lyrics to a song :wink: [smiley=cheers.gif]


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

"As for Scotland paying less tax than it receives, technically yes. But....so does England and Wales and NI. The money comes from the budget deficit. Scotland receives about £3.1k per head and the rest of the UK under the same calculations receives about 2k."

So, less tax paid and more money per head. Technically or not I was right.

Still think it would be funny if everyone voted though. Be careful what you wish for.

Sorry m8 but didn't like the insults flying around, so as I seem to gave hit a nerve I'll back off.


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Shug750S said:


> "As for Scotland paying less tax than it receives, technically yes. But....so does England and Wales and NI. The money comes from the budget deficit. Scotland receives about £3.1k per head and the rest of the UK under the same calculations receives about 2k."
> 
> So, less tax paid and more money per head. Technically or not I was right.
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> ...


Insults? Because I called you small minded, I apologise. Perhaps ignorant would have been a more accurate description.

Like I said factor in north sea oil, which Scotland geographically owns 85-95% of and we contribute more than we receive, even taking into account budget deficit.

Be careful what *you* wish for. :wink:

Like I said I prefer the union, but if we did become independent I think for the foreseeable future we would be fine. Would you?


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

Throw a dog a bone....

Keep it coming, I can soak it up all day

Still can't understand why so keen to start insults though

Off to get some shut eye now, early flight to Madrid in the morning.

Night Night.


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Shug750S said:


> Throw a dog a bone....
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> Keep it coming, I can soak it up all day
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You started it :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

brian1978 said:


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Whoa, not sure there, thought I responded to your post.

All insults were one way, but what do I care.

[smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif] So be it then, all my fault [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Shug750S said:


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Ok whatever, but you were the one suggesting you would like an off the record vote for the English just to show us how much we are not wanted. :roll:

I see this bitter tripe on internet forums and news story comments all the time. It's pretty sad really.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Great to see another of my threads drops to bitching levels again


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## CWM3 (Mar 4, 2012)

brian1978 said:


> You started it :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Hey Mr Scotland, check your history books, the bloody Germans started it, and anyone who has watched historical documentary programmes like Fawlty Towers will know that one immediately.


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

CWM3 said:


> brian1978 said:
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> > You started it :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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The Germans started a debate between me and shug?

Never mind Bazil Fawlty, you should read the post :lol: :wink:


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## CWM3 (Mar 4, 2012)

brian1978 said:


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Oh dear humour is not your strong point is it?


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