# Tale of a Repenting Sinner.



## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

So..... dashing to work one morning; got done by a Gatso van; unexpected as my speedster days are over ( :roll: ) and I was moving in a pack of congested traffic. Ho Hum.

I opted for the speed awareness course, to avoid the points and the cost was cheaper than the fine :? .

So I thought I'd take the lecture; nod in agreement then zoom back home having not believed a word. I don't need it. After all, I'm the best driver I know!

What I didn't expect was to actually be changed by the course;    I have modified my driving style and here is why.

The course is four hours, but I can condense what opened my eyes, down to two minutes for you, by reading this.

Example 1

A driver travelling in a car at 30mph, sees the hazard; hits the anchors and stops with 1mm to spare = Happy days.

Same situation 35mph; the car is still travelling at 18mph when it hits the hazard/child/lorry/OAP

At 40mph; it increases to 26mph, as it hits the hazard.

Example 2

Similar to above, on the motorway; car travelling at 70mph, brakes and stops with 1mm gap = Happy days

At 80mph, the obstacle is hit at 39mph

At 100mph it's hit at 71mph!!! Christ!

Even allowing for a bit of hyperbole; that is bloody alarming (of course we have never done 100mph, have we?!)

I travelled to the hotel where the course was conducted, at my usual 80mph, I came back at 70mph. For the above reason and two others (all expressed on the course) The extra 10mph will only save six seconds per mile, and cost more fuel.

This is what I gained from the course, others may have learned what I already knew and practice.

I genuinely believe that a similar course to this should be mandatory for all new drivers; no one wants to kill anyone, do they?

Specsman 8) (older and wiser)


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## HOGG (Mar 30, 2018)

Sounds like the time I took the Drink Awareness course.....

I came out knowing how to drink and drive! :-|


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## SC0TTRS (Oct 23, 2016)

SPECSMAN said:


> So..... dashing to work one morning; got done by a Gatso van


A law breaker!, 'GUARDS, SEIZE HIM!".

Not that I've been on speed awareness  but I've always lead to believe they were a load of old tosh and an easy way to not have points on your licence. :wink:


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## paradigital (Jun 26, 2018)

SPECSMAN said:


> Example 2
> 
> Similar to above, on the motorway; car travelling at 70mph, brakes and stops with 1mm gap = Happy days
> 
> ...


Based on mathematics formed from the outdated "figures" plucked from the highway code no doubt. No one is driving around in a Ford Anglia or Pop Plus.

Sure, you "might" still hit said object/hazard at an increased road speed, but the likelyhood is that unless the hazard presents itself out of nowhere, without any reaction time available, then you wouldn't have been 1mm from the object at the speed limit.

Not that I'm advocating speeding, I just dislike the way we twist terrible outdated statistics as facts.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

SC0TTRS said:


> SPECSMAN said:
> 
> 
> > So..... dashing to work one morning; got done by a Gatso van
> ...


I thought that, but following my correction in the hands of the Todeslagerfuhrer, I now see things differently. :lol:

btw. nothing easy about four hours in the classroom!
8)


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

paradigital said:


> SPECSMAN said:
> 
> 
> > Example 2
> ...


I think you miss the point.

Your TT; driven by you, will stop at a given point. The Fords Anglia on its drum brakes, driven by a 90 year old; at a later point, obviously.

The figures quoted are for the same car and driver.

Most people on the course thought that the car at 35mph would be travelling at 5mph at impact. 
The fact that it is much faster is a mathematical fact.

I would love someone like Top Gear/Grand Tour to run this test for real. If anyone knows of anything on YouTube, I would be obliged.

I'm not stupid, they also quoted that in a car travelling at 30 mph, the distance travelled is nine metres, just for the reaction time. I bet I could stop as well in that distance.

Specsman 8)


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## GARAGE HERMIT (Mar 7, 2015)

SPECSMAN, you will of course be driving at 70mph and not 80mph in 6 month's time, right,,


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## PlasticMac (Apr 25, 2017)

Just like SPECSMAN, I got caught and choose to attend an Speed Awareness Course. That was a few years ago now, but it really did change my awareness of speed, limit signs, and clues like lamp post spacing, and other signage. That change has been lasting. That word "Awareness" is the key. No matter how you drive, you'll drive better if you are aware of what's around you, traffic, surface, and, yes, speed limits.
Points don't always mean prizes! Mac.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

GARAGE HERMIT said:


> SPECSMAN, you will of course be driving at 70mph and not 80mph in 6 month's time, right,,


I would like to think so Garage. It is habit that I sit at 80mph when the road is clear, this being the speed where hopefully the police ignore you, in their unmarked Beemers.

A minute saved on my commute is nothing; anyway, on "my" section of motorway, on a weekday, the possibility of doing 70 is a far away dream.

I have never been interested in straight line speed, acceleration is my vice.. Then you get done for road racing/dangerous driving I suppose; but at least a real copper has to see you doing this, like the old days.

8)


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

PlasticMac said:


> Just like SPECSMAN, I got caught and choose to attend an Speed Awareness Course. That was a few years ago now, but it really did change my awareness of speed, limit signs, and clues like lamp post spacing, and other signage. That change has been lasting. That word "Awareness" is the key. No matter how you drive, you'll drive better if you are aware of what's around you, traffic, surface, and, yes, speed limits.
> Points don't always mean prizes! Mac.


Yes, I didn't get all the questions correct for differing speeds for given vehicles (within national speed limit restrictions).

But the best thing I learned is..........

Speed limits are only advisory, unless surrounded by a red circle!       

No more slowing down for advisory speeds on bends! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

8)


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## Horlixx (Aug 13, 2017)

SPECSMAN said:


> Yes, I didn't get all the questions correct for differing speeds for given vehicles (within national speed limit restrictions).
> 
> But the best thing I learned is..........
> 
> ...


Wait untill you notice some of those newer "speed limit" signs actually have a sneaky black border and not a red one, that'll really blow your mind...


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

For our older forum members.....

If you see grey signs, with no script, on the motorway..... you're going the wrong way.


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## PlasticMac (Apr 25, 2017)

Very Droll, and Very Ageist! Were you going the wrong way when you noticed this esoteric detail? Mac.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

PlasticMac said:


> Very Droll, and Very Ageist! Were you going the wrong way when you noticed this esoteric detail? Mac.


Hahaha!

I can't be ageist; I'm 55 next month!

That little quip was told by one of the "lecturers" on the course. No one knew what the grey signs were; "good" was his reply!

8)


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## PlasticMac (Apr 25, 2017)

A mere whipper snapper then! A TT will enable you to retain your youth (maybe not your sanity & wealth though) for many years to come! Mac.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

Birth certificate says 55 in August; my ears and back say 70! [smiley=bomb.gif]

8)


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

The case could also be that if you were doing 25 in a 40 mph limit and braked for the hazard you stopped with 1 mm to spare. Whereas if you were travelling at the speed limit - smash!
There's no firm rules, its all about reducing the odds of an accident - within reason.

As an aside, if a Ford Anglia had the brakes and tyres of a modem day car you could do an emergency stop a heck of a lot quicker. Unfortunately you would have also been thrown through the windscreen as they didn't have seat belts. :lol:


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

ZephyR2 said:


> The case could also be that if you were doing 25 in a 40 mph limit and braked for the hazard you stopped with 1 mm to spare. Whereas if you were travelling at the speed limit - smash!
> There's no firm rules, its all about reducing the odds of an accident - within reason.
> 
> As an aside, if a Ford Anglia had the brakes and tyres of a modem day car you could do an emergency stop a heck of a lot quicker. Unfortunately you would have also been thrown through the windscreen as they didn't have seat belts. :lol:


Interesting points.

We can all think of stupid speed limits.....some too high and some too low. I live on a lane that is only eight feet wide, with passing places. The law says that because there are no street lights or signs, on a single carriageway 60mph is the speed allowed! only a fool would go that fast (and some do try!)

Likewise, on another local highway, 20+ feet wide, having well spaced houses, set well back, has been reduced (in stages) from 60mph down to 30; I hate that road, its like standing still. Of course if you do thirty, everyone wants to get past, further increasing the danger to everyone.

Both bad in my opinion and the law needs upgrading in this respect.

A lightweight Anglia, with perhaps the brakes from a Fiesta would stop on a Tanner (ask your Granddad) Well, at least the chassis would; the bodywork, the occupants testicles; mammaries and other loosely fixed items would carry on.

Modern cars are better if you want to survive; although I'm not sure I want a 20 year old airbag going off; it would be like being teabagged by Cliff Richard. Eugh!

Perhaps that's the real reason I've slowed down!?

8)


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

I did a speed awareness course 5 years ago.

What a waste of a morning, apart from the fact my licence stayed clean. Delivered by a santamonious old git who was just preaching that speed kills.

At one point he put a slide up and asked what speed we would be driving at. It was an urban road with streetlights and no other signs. Everyone said 30 except for me, I said 25 and slowing. 
He asked me why and I said because of the police van parked with two wheels on the pavement way ahead so obviously something going on. He looked at the slide and admitted he'd never seen the police van before...

Maybe because I have always ridden bikes I assume everyone is trying to knock me off.

We need less speed cameras and more cops with common sense to stop bad drivers, middle lane hoggers, and similar. Doing 85 on am empty motorway in the middle of the night isn't dangerous. It's all about driving to the conditions and being aware of what's going on around you. Cameras are just money earners for government.


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## j8keith (Jun 26, 2009)

Shug750S said:


> I did a speed awareness course 5 years ago.
> 
> What a waste of a morning, apart from the fact my licence stayed clean. Delivered by a santamonious old git who was just preaching that speed kills.
> 
> ...


The comment about the Police van--- absolutely priceless :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

Shug750S said:


> I did a speed awareness course 5 years ago.
> 
> What a waste of a morning, apart from the fact my licence stayed clean. Delivered by a santamonious old git who was just preaching that speed kills.
> 
> ...


Can't dispute a word of that!

As I already said, I yearn for the good old days, when a copper could decide what was unsafe; these days you could be drifting past a speed camera, with your @rse out the window, so long as you don't exceed the limit.

I have never been tempted to ride a motorcycle, relatives and people I knew have lost their lives; but I always make way for motorcyclists, for instance, on the motorway, when they make their own lane between 2 and 3 in traffic - The drivers that try and close the gap (usually of a BMW disposition) really boil my pi$$.

Police officers cost cash, speed cameras make cash, so I wont be holding my breath for a return to sanity.

8)


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## Stiff (Jun 15, 2015)

Some very good points raised by a few in this thread. 
I've always been under the impression that the speed limits, or rather, the _motorway_ speed limit is a bit antiquated for modern vehicles. If I remember rightly, a trial limit was brought in after an AC Cobra was seen doing over 100mph in the 60's and then it was made permanent in '67.
As mentioned, this was in the days of Anglia's, Pops, Mk1 Escorts/Cortinas, Viva's etc where most of these cars couldn't even _reach_ the speed limit and had very poor tyres/brakes/handling etc. Pretty much every car nowadays (except my works van) can easily surpass this limit and the majority are equipped with ABS, PAB, PS, discs all round, crumple zones, airbags - the list goes on - so there is a *massive* difference in the cars capabilities and safety from those of half a century ago.
However, I guess that raising the limits would more than likely raise the idiocy of some people and accidents would indeed be more prolific with even more serious consequences. 
It looks like the awareness course may change my mind somewhat like it has some of you guys as I'll be booked on one in a few weeks. Either that speed camera wasn't calibrated properly or my asthmatic works van was going downhill with back-wind.
I only wish Mrs Stiff could go on it instead as every time she gets behind the wheel it's like she's playing Gran Turismo 4 whilst being chased by zombies.


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

Been on one myself, it made me aware of the facts you presented but has changed my driving. Where's the line at the end of the day? You could significantly decrease the braking distance if you were driving at 25mph instead of 30mph... who decided 30mph is the 'correct' speed? As mentioned there's so much more to it then just the speed, that it's just down to chance in reality. I don't personally speed in 30mph zones, especially now that I have cruise control, but I won't sit here and say driving at 35mph is unsafe.

Take this to a motorway, and I'll happily do 80mph+ in theory and won't have anyone tell me this is unsafe in today's vehicles on today's roads. The chances of coming across a stationary object and not seeing it until the last minute should be 0% if you're paying attention on a motorway and any incidents will themselves be travelling in the same direction and give you more time to react.

Just my two cents, like I say, in built up areas I think 30mph is safe, but they lost me when lecturing about motorways, complete garbage.


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

Shug750S said:


> I did a speed awareness course 5 years ago.
> 
> What a waste of a morning, apart from the fact my licence stayed clean. Delivered by a santamonious old git who was just preaching that speed kills.
> 
> ...


I should have just quited you here!! Spot on IMO.

As a fellow biker I totally agree, being vulnerable certainly helps with your driving style, carrying that over to the car with me has helped improve my vision and awareness no end.

Maybe they should make a motorcycle licence mandatory before a car license?! That way everyone would learn to observe and anticipate in an environment where if they don't, they get hurt and cause little damage to others, before being allowed loose on a 2-ton weapon.
Tongue in cheek of course, but I bet it would make a difference.


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

They also need to start educating pedestrians not to randomly step into the road, not to cross the road when on the phone etc.

All these stats about stopping distance, but I would guess majority of people hit in 30 zones is because they stepped from the pavement into the road without due care. How many people are run over on the pavement, very few? On my speed awareness course they had no stats at all about why the accidents occurred, just about the speed. If people didn't step into the road without looking I guess the numbers would reduce dramatically. Then no longer relavent if 30 or 20 mph..

Basically they are dealing with the effect, not the root cause.


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## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

Shug750S said:


> They also need to start educating pedestrians not to randomly step into the road, not to cross the road when on the phone etc.
> 
> All these stats about stopping distance, but I would guess majority of people hit in 30 zones is because they stepped from the pavement into the road without due care. How many people are run over on the pavement, very few? On my speed awareness course they had no stats at all about why the accidents occurred, just about the speed. If people didn't step into the road without looking I guess the numbers would reduce dramatically. Then no longer relavent if 30 or 20 mph..
> 
> Basically they are dealing with the effect, not the root cause.


Another good point, we should be running the country!

What happened to the green cross code? If little Johnny wasn't in the road in the first place, there would be no accident.

Tragically, I do have close experience of this, in the 50's when my dad was a young man, a little girl, being chased by her brother ran from behind a parked car; the wheel went over her head. Dad was completely blameless and this was confirmed at the inquest but it ruined his life, it always haunted him... and I would suspect it didn't do her brother much good either. Roads are for cars, kids should be told.

And don't get me started on effing horses! "Horses were here first!". B*LL*CKS! Half a ton of meat with the brain of a dog on a modern highway. Ridiculous.

Specsman 8)


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## j8keith (Jun 26, 2009)

They also need to start educating pedestrians not to randomly step into the road, not to cross the road when on the phone etc.

I totally concur with the above, every time I drive into town I encounter some "grey cell deficient individual" either on the phone or texting who walks off the pavement across the road without looking. [smiley=bomb.gif]


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