# 2009 2.0 TDI Roadster - Roof Control Module Revision-B Relay Problems



## bobbobb (Dec 24, 2008)

hi back again been a while since I had a tt but got a roadster again last week and roof been fine up till now but gust of wind hit it when coming up , stopped short by about a inch so did the lock close manually just the inch wouldn't go up or down, still doesn't so I scanned with vcds and can you help with the results. (ive read the article but don't think it applies to this of I might be to thick so can you please help

Wednesday,10,July,2019,14:53:05:32264
VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3

Address 26: Auto Roof Labels: 8J7-959-255.lbl
Control Module Part Number: *8J7 959 255 B*
Component and/or Version: 256 VSG TT H14 0110
Software Coding:
Work Shop Code: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 3E792021696C949
1 Fault Found:

01997 - Convertible Top Locking Motor (V223)
011 - Open Circuit
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101011
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 3
 Mileage: 84002 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2019.08.09


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

You might try manually opening/closing the top with the ignition on the first position (accessory, not with the engine running). Sometimes this fakes out the Controller since this will trigger all the contact switches in the correct sequence. Do a full cycle; open and close. Don't forget to close the hydraulic pump release valve when you're done.

Then start the engine (as a precaution to prevent a low voltage fault) and see if you can open/close it normally.

If that doesn't work, and since you have a VCDS, you might run an Adaptation to clear the faults and get everything back in sync. There's a possibility when the wind caught the roof, it nudged one of the flaps. In which case the Adaptation should take care of the problem.

Follow the link below and look for the link under the *DIY R&R for the Flap Servos* towards the bottom of the post -

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1813258

SSP391 is also worth a read as it fully explains the chain of events the roof goes through and the corresponding codes and related parts -

View attachment SSP 391 Audi TT Roadster.pdf


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## bobbobb (Dec 24, 2008)

thanks for that info at the min I cant get the screwdriver to slot into the release screw cant be that difficult but been on for half hour just wont hit the slot ?


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

Best if you use the OEM screwdriver in the tool kit. It's hard to see through the little access slot in the carpet, but there's a rubber grommet on the release valve screw that makes it impossible to get to with a wide blade screw driver.


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## bobbobb (Dec 24, 2008)

well here 2 half days of trying.

first couldn't get the screwdriver in tried couple hours to do that so took lots of camera shots and no screw down the hole , 
so stripped carpets out and took off the top cover and yes found the screw and slot the pump was not in correct position and few screws missing from top (so someone been in before) so released screw turned ignition to first click released top locking by hand wrench bearing in mind mine was closed, moved roof through cycle but flaps did not go down and did this twice then tightened screw back up and tried,

no joy still same fault

01997 - Convertible Top Locking Motor (V223) 
011 - Open Circuit
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101011
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 3
Mileage: 84002 km

I cant find any codes on ross tech here or audi forum to help me with this, I think motor must be knackered,

unless anyone knows how ?

cheers bob


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

The top lock motor V223, is a 'dumb' motor, meaning as long as it has power, it will run continuously if the spline shaft is removed first. The only thing that lets the computer know to stop applying power are the contact switches which are engaged when the latches engage or retract. The fact it's a 'dumb' motor also means is there is no requirement for an Adaption if you remove or replace it.

First - have you attempted to clear the 011 - Open Circuit fault?

When I was having problems with my convertible top, I found that with the spline shaft removed, and the top in the halfway open position, I could apply power with the E137 switch (center console) and the motor would run. I was doing this in an attempt to align the motor spline with the latch spline since they had become misaligned when the spline shaft was removed. If you want to try and see if the motor is still good, this may work.

The other option is to simply remove the motor (it comes out easily enough) and put 12-V straight off the battery with some spare wire. At least this way you can determine if the motor is actually bad or not.

If the motor is actually dead (doesn't run when you apply power) you can open up the case and check the brushes and commutator. It was observed in Audi TT door lock motors that carbon can build-up on the commutator can create enough resistance that it can stop the motor from working. A little Scotch-brite sometimes take care of this. If, when you open up the motor, it smells burned, you may have a fried or broken wire in which case it's toast.

From my research in this and other forums, I have not come across a failed V223 top lock motor, so this is a first. I would be happy to help you through this if you want to put the time and effort into it. I know this isn't everyone's cup of tea, so the other option is to just latch the top and take it into an Audi service center and see what they come up with. If you decide to get into the motor, please take some pictures and post whatever you find.


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

Here's another post that might help with the motor removal -

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 9#p9181319

This one will help explain the data in your VCDS screen shots - (scroll down to the bottom of the page when you get there)

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &start=105


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## bobbobb (Dec 24, 2008)

thanks for the offer and I still need help heres a update

yes tried to clear the code kept coming back as soon as i touched the release button stayed clear until i touched it,
so took motor off (mine has bracket) wired it up to a battery and it works ?

so put it back and no change so disconected it and while still in place and codes just keep coming up the same clear again as soon as I try centre console button comes back even if connected or not. ran meas block the look the same as before,
tried also moving roof up and down to reset and made no difference, 
just a point as mine got stuck while nearly up when I lower my roof the flaps do not go down if there supposed to ?


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

I'm not really sure what would cause the fault message if the switch and motor are actually okay. Only other thing I can recommend is to R&R the flap servos followed by an Adaption. It could be since they're indirectly related the computer 'thinks' the motor is the problem.

_"A gust of wind hit it when coming up."_ This often results the top getting pushed against one of the flaps and can knock them out slightly of position. I've read where this happens when the wind breaker is up and the flap gets caught between the roof and wind breaker. While this may not break anything, it can either trap the flap or in the case of a wind gust, push the top against it resulting in a bad or unexpected signal and the system shuts everything down to protect the components from a collision.

This was my initial thought until I saw your motor fault. But an R&R for the flaps can't hurt, and usually solves 99% of the roof issues. If the motor is good, you've nothing to lose by trying.


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## bobbobb (Dec 24, 2008)

will this still work if I put the roof down the flaps are still up and not sure what I do after that as nothing will move with the switch as it says unable to use soft top


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

The "Unable" message is to prevent a collision between the roof frame and flaps.

This is why I still suspect the flap motors; when the wind catches the top and hits the flaps, it can force the servo resulting in a bad reading to the computer. As you can see in the measurement blocks, there's an expected value (if you mouse over them, a little bubble will appear with those values). If the computer sees a value outside that range (even for a brief moment), the top will stop working. Why? Because it 'thinks' the flaps are in the way because it no longer 'knows' where they are.

To put it another way...the servo is like a dimmer switch in your living room. Dial it up for bright (100%), down for dim (1%). The servo works the same way. The computer 'knows the operating range from the initial Adapation from the factory, let's say '0-100' for the sake of argument. But when it gets bumped by the top and the servo registers 105, the computer no longer 'knows' where the servo really is and shuts down everything down.

So....open your top, pop off the ball joints on the flaps, get the flaps up and secure the ball joints so they're out of the way. Remove and perform the R&R on the servo motors. As long as the flaps are up, you can still close and latch the top manually without any harm. Take the servos into your workshop shop and do the R&R.

Then once you have them cleaned up and back together, open the top, reinstall the servos and run the Adaptation. If this doesn't do it, then there's something more going and it's beyond my knowledge. But you've nothing to lose doing the R&R and Adaptation.

.


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## bobbobb (Dec 24, 2008)

well finally got round to servicing the flap motors , there was good build up of grease on the connections and reinstalled them

trouble is cant run the adaptation as the same as before

codes are the same they clear as before so as soon as I touch the switch says error and unable . ive tried with the roof down flaps are up and ran vagcom but main switch still wont do anything except throw up the error. even took motor back off tested again works fine both ways clockwise and anticlockwise so im stuck

anymore advice (thinking of buying a motor anyway !

ps don't have many spare days so sorry for taking so much time (still working seven days a week )


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

I would try this -

Turn the key to the accessory position (don't start the car) and manually open and close the roof. Be sure to use the crank arm to latch the top when you're done so all the switches have been energized so they don't trigger additional faults. Once done, insert the spline shaft and shut off the ignition. The top should now be closed and everything ready for the Adaptation.

Now start the car. It's only running to keep the battery up so the voltage doesn't drop. Start up the VCDS, and run an Auto Scan. Save the file (just for your own records) and then clear all the DTCs.

Now try to run the Roof Adaptation. Once it's running, pull the roof switch up. The roof should start to open just a little and then stop. Release the switch, wait a few seconds and pull it up again. The top should start to open and then stop again. Repeat this process over and over until you have opened and closed the top through it's complete cycle. This whole procedure is not about the motor or the switches, it's simply so the Controller "learns" the max/min values of the cleaned up servo potentiometer.

If this still doesn't work, then you'll need to look at the data blocks circled below and verify the values, they should be somewhere between 42 to 184 NOTE: When you're in the data block, mouse over these two windows (inside the dashed line) and a bubble will appear with the expected values. The data bubble only appears when you mouse over it. If the values in the window are out of the expected range shown in the data bubble, there may be something wrong with the servo that cleaning didn't solve.


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## John949 (Apr 12, 2017)

Although it could be the flaps, the fault showing is to do with the latch so I would check that out first. When you try the adaption (i.e. stepping the roof in small increments) does the latch motor run? Do the latch claws move? I can't remember which measuring blocks you have to look at but somewhere you should be able to find the latch microswitch status and see what it thinks is going on.

Ona friend's Mk1 I had to fit a small spacer to the microswitch as it is not adjustable. Don't know about the Mk 2 but the info should be in the knowledge base.

To verify that the flaps are OK look at blocks 8 & 9, while running the adaption. These show the current flap position potentiometer reading and also the thresholds. Obviously the position reading should go below the open threshold when the flaps are open and below the closed threshold when it is closed. If it does then the flaps should not be the problem.


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

So we know that the motor works, "_...took motor off (mine has bracket) wired it up to a battery and it works._". I would have expected the forward switches to have registered a fault if the latches are not working properly.

The reason I'm a bit suspect of the flap, is the low value [ 39.0 ] shown in Block 8 for G587. It would be interesting to see the expected value in the pop-up bubble. Plus we're not seeing an _02000 - Switch Position: Implausible Signal_ fault from the E137 switch (Center Console) which is good since that means the Control Module has not locked it out which is typical when you get a roof fault.

There was a report from another Forum member who had cleaned his servos, and when the top wouldn't work, he opened them both up again and discovered he had bent the little "fingers" on the potentiometer gear. It's worth a second look inside just to make sure they're okay.

*Question* - With the top closed, the motor in place and the spline shaft removed, will the motor run if you operate the Convertible Top button?


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

I found these pictures of the roof motor and latching mechanism, listed on eBay as P/N 8J7 871 401 B.

You can see the contact switch -F294- that's located on the back side of the motor mount. This will give you a better idea of what the motor is doing when actuated. I also included some pictures of the latch and striker plates. Not the best pictures, but you can make out the location of the contact switches.


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

I got lucky and found these...wanted to post them before the link is lost.


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## bobbobb (Dec 24, 2008)

well another half a day spent still not getting anywhere heres the latest scan after the flaps were cleaned.

still cant do the adaptation even if it I had too as the moment I touch the roof button fault reappears.

took whole mechanism off toady to see those switches and all seem fine in correct positions

the roof motor doesn't even try to work no matter what I do and don't even get power to it when roof button worked

ive tried another motor which is fine and still the same tried my motor on another car and fine too

at a loss no time left going to put it all back together again before it rains


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

The values look a lot better before and after, so it seems the servos definitely needed a clean.

In both scans your voltage looked okay, so I think we can rule that out.

You've also tested the motor in both directions, so we can check that box too.

Can you run an auto scan and post your findings? I'm curious what faults are being reported now.

Also, did you clear all DTCs before you ran the Adapation?

Have you had either the entire center console or just console cover removed? There was a report of a spoiler failing to work after the owner had it in for a shifter service. Turned out the wiring harness got pinched between the console and a clip. Just wondering if the E137 switch or wires are defective.

.


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

If you want to test if the contact switches for the roof latches and motor are working, you should be able to monitor them in Group 001, Block 1.

With the ignition on, pull the spline shaft and with the crank arm tool inserted, monitor Group 001, Block 1, Convertible Top Status values, noting the last three digits as you latch and unlatch the top. This should cycle all three switches from 1 to 0 or 0 to 1. If one of these digits doesn't change it may indicate a bad switch.

Keep in mind F295 is two switches in series (highlighted in red).


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## bobbobb (Dec 24, 2008)

Update swapped whole roof mech including motor - wasn't that! Changed roof switch - wasn't that!

Opened up roof module, tested all the contacts etc but someone been in there before. One was very suspect under power!

Swapped Roof Module with a M8 his was revision D mine was B and it worked without Adaptation or anything. Happy boy.

Turns out revision B modules were revised because of this built in relay problem.

Notice the missing pieces of the two relays in this picture -


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

bobbobb said:


> turns out revision B modules were revised because of this built in relay problem.


Do you have anything to document that comment? Like a TSB perhaps? Would be a nice addition to the Knowledge Base list of TSBs.


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## bobbobb (Dec 24, 2008)

just what the guy at TPS said dealears were always asking for them years ago , think they are onto revision E now


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