# Employment Lawyer Needed, on firday i got Binned! (UPDATED!)



## TTej (Sep 10, 2003)

Ok now i did not get fired for being on this forum but on friday my directors were listening into a call i had made to my girlfriend in which i said "I think in the new year i am going to look for a new job" she replied "good luck".

About 10 minutes later i was pulled into the office and both directors started asking me quite agressively what i wanted from life etc, I couldnt work out where this was going as that afternoon they had fired a new guy so i thought it ws about his departure.

They then told me They had heard this call as they were listening in and said that the 'trust' was gone and how they felt they couldnt truse me etc..
I was really surprised by this and when they asked me "what shall we do" i replied "i honestly dont know"

They said well we want you to leave, today, right now! We'll pay your notice period and grudgingly your holiday pay.

Well my question is do i have a case??

I have never ever recieved any warning, verbal or written and achieved all targets that were set.

Now im a few weeks away from Xmas, no job, No Bonus and no nothing. If anyone can either give me any advice or know of any good employment lawyers i really need your help guys.

well im off to Citizens Advice now.

Cheers for reading this far.


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## QuackingPlums (Mar 10, 2004)

Wow! That's wrong on so many levels! Were you aware that they were listening in on your call? I assume not, or else you wouldn't have said what you did. In that case, I'd definitely argue that your privacy had been infringed if they were listening in on a private call - that's a lawsuit in itself.

On top of that, if you haven't actually contravened any rules that may be construed as misconduct, which again, it doesn't sound like you have, then what grounds do they have for sacking you? It certainly doesn't sound like they've made you "redundant" properly...

At the very least, don't sign anything and "settle" for a LARGE statutory payout... :x


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Jesus Christ!!   

What are these guys? Because you said you will be looking for another job they can't just treat you like this.

You certainly need legal representation here as this is unheard. I also suggest that you go and talk to these directors and ask for your job back.


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

Citizens advice bureau is a good move. They shouldn't really be listening in to calls and using the info in this way. Their motivation i.e. a breakdown of trust IS a good reason to sack you, but has to be based on something a little more substantial than this. I would think their motivation for reducing numbers is financial rather than trust related. Either way, if it goes to tribunal you will win. The award will be based on your salary and what efforts you have made to find alternative employment or get your job back.

Good luck.


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

They were listening in on your call and now *they* say the trust is gone!?


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## garvin (May 7, 2002)

TTej said:


> Well my question is do i have a case??


You most certainly do. Reading between the lines it sounds like the company may be in a spot of trouble (just fired the new guy) and they are looking for the cheap way to offload people.

Do you have a formal disciplinary procedure at work cos it sounds like it hasn't been followed in the slightest!

Good luck at the CAB, I'm sure they will advise you to take it to a tribunal. Are you a member of a union? Even if you are not, unions have been known to take up the case of non-union members in such situations so if you have a union at work it may well be worth contacting them.


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

Defo tibunal time, instant dismissal can only be applied for gross misconduct which covers a variety of offences, however not an innocent remark that's been overheard.

Make sure they give you written notice of termination and ensure that they give reasons. If it states GM ask them to clarify it.

Good luck.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

TTej - if you want I can put you in touch with the Lawyer I used. Very good and very feisty.

Got a positive result for me too.

Can't do it at the moment as I don't have my phone or any of the other stuff with me, but can send you a PM tomorrow.

AFAIK, they're within their rights to listen to/read anything you say or write while at work, but this seems like a cop-out to me.

Fortunately for me, there were a lot of us in the same boat - so it kept the legal fees down. Had there not been six of us, the bill would have been over Â£5,000, as it was, split between us all and with our company's compulsory Â£250 contribution, it came to about Â£500. But it got me another Â£4,000 so it was worthwhile. :?

Really sorry to hear your news.


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## Pammy (Nov 10, 2003)

you might find this useful. The first thing you need is to work out how long you've worked for them. If it's less than 12 months - they prob have you over a barrel  but if not - then go for whatever you can get!


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

shoot fella :evil:

I'd give em hell - BUT.....

And this isn't a cop out, just some info.
Bear in mind what your next prospective employer might think if they find out you are suing for unfair dismisal.
No idea how bad the 'old boys' network is in your line of work....

Vengence is great - as long as it doesn't cost too much.... :evil:

Really gutted for you tho :evil: :evil: :evil:


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## jimfew (Mar 5, 2004)

Hi TTej,

The correct path is to go for an industrial tribunal first. They are limited to payments up to Â£50k but you can then apply through a civil action for damages. This can be expensive.

No-one is allowed to listen in to other private conversations without either permission (did you sign anything or is it written into your T's and C's?) or court order (as with the secret services and police). I never allow it any of my Companies.

To be sacked for indicating you might look for another job is both crass stupidity on their part and not acceptable as a reason for dismissal. If I did this, I would probably not have any staff. Everyone is allowed to plan for the future without intimidation and we all have off days.

One problem though, they are not required to give you your job back, so money is all you are chasing.

Good luck with both the tribunal and the job hunt.

Jim.


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## beastty (May 7, 2002)

thats bloody outragous.

I've sent your orginal post to my sis in law who is an employment lawyer. I'll let you know what she comes back with.

hang in there

Bob


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## bobdabuilda (May 19, 2003)

Can I ask what it is that you do /did for a living?? This may have a bearing on what advice people give on here.....If you worked for 14Int then you don't have a cats chance but if its dixons or the like then its a diff matter :?


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

jimfew said:


> Hi TTej,
> 
> The correct path is to go for an industrial tribunal first. They are limited to payments up to Â£50k but you can then apply through a civil action for damages. This can be expensive.
> 
> ...


It's funny actually - as I was told (by my lawyer) almost the exact opposite of that.

If it goes to a hearing, they can overturn their decision to sack you, and then you don't get anything out of it other than your job back. It's a game the companies sometimes play to then get you to resign. OF course you can counter that with irreconcileable differences etc.

The thing that I learned about all of this is that however morally wrong they are, they need to be very legally wrong to make it worthwhile pursuing.

TO me, this sounds like not only unfair, but illegal, dismissal. Much like my own case. However, don't be fooled into thinking that automatically entitles you to a huge payout. Companies can (and do) drag their heels so that you have no option but to take their money and run.


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

Firstly i wouldn't contact your ex employers until you have spoken to a solicitor, the first consoltation is free and they will advise you if you have a case or not, my personal view is you do but which direction you decide to take is up to you and can be a long drawn out process.
WHat line of work are you in?

Two ways you could go! Ideal way would be to get you solicitor to write a letter to your ex employers, stating the law and how they have breached it and what course of action you are taking. Also a meeting should be arranged with your ex employers and your self, taking a witness prefferably your solicitor with you to see if they have had time to reconcider the action they took. Hopfully they would of seen sense and either make you an award of cash or your old job back, i doubt you'll get your job back though, and would you really want it back :?

I would try and steer clear of a Tribunual as these can take years, ACAS would be a another route i would look at in your situation. ACAS is there for the employer and your self without any bias and wont cost you anything. However if your ex employer refuses this will go in your favour further down the road if it ever got to a tribunal.


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## zipper (Sep 23, 2003)

TTej,

have an excellent employment lawyer if your still looking. he's based in central london. will let you know his details if you're still looking.

sorry, can't offer any advice on your situ myself but it sounds like they are v.desperate to get rid of staff.


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## chip (Dec 24, 2002)

From the limited knowledge I learnt from our Employment law course, based on your info., it does looks suspect as dismissals can only occurs after the employer has followed a set process e.g. verbal warning, written warning (with witness), probation period to assess your progress etc.. There are exceptional situations for instant dismissals, but I doubt a passing conversation of you planning your future falls under this category.

My best mate's missus is a HR Director who specialise in employment/ redundancy & tribunal issues. (She's also my HR Director too, slight conflict of interest sometimes... :roll: ). If you need to speak to her, drop me a PM and i'll pass her tel. no. to you.

As stated before, ACAS is very useful too, they will send a representative along as your witness (if you do meet up with your former employer) if you don't want to put a work colleague under the spotlight. Phone number 0207 396 5100 (always saved in my mobile in case of sticky situation! :wink: )

Note. Tribunals is the last resort, and the case can take years to happen!

Forgot to add, most cases settle out of court way before the tribunal actually tales place.


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## Mol (Oct 10, 2004)

I believe that in October the law regarding the procedures for dismissing employees changed, in their favour for a change!

Going from memory it lays down fairly strict procedures that employers must follow in order to dismiss an employee and if they cannot demonstrate that they have followed them they are knackered. Seems fairly safe to say that yours have not followed these. I think it was an article in The Times that I read about it, may be worth having a look at The Times on-line.

CAB and a bloody good Solicitor are my suggestions. Best of luck mate, rubbish time of year for this to happen, don't let the bastar*s get you down.


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## TTej (Sep 10, 2003)

And who says this forum has become useless.

THANKS guys for all your info, as you can guess i dont have regular internet access but i am talking to you all from the local Library!

Well i spoke to CAB yesterday unfortuantly i have only been there 11 months so i dont have as many rights as i would have a month down the line. That said she said i might havea case of Wrongful Dismissal.

I called one of the Directors (the one who is spear heading this) on his mobile so he couldnt record it and asked for the companies Disiplinary process, he called back and said he would send it.

Today i have it infront of me with a letter stating

"following a number of verbal warning regarding your lack of performance we agree to let you go on Friday and confirm we will pay your one weeks notice period plus any holiday due"

Three things here, the reason for dismissal has changed, and also i know have have had a 'number' of warnings! and lack of performance in 11 months to bring them in over 30K :?

Well i am off to CAB now with all my letters and contracts and i will see what kind of case i have.

Oh those who asked, i worked for a firm of Headhunters, my speciality was Finance and Private Equity.

BTW if anyone is after a armrest with cup holder see for sale.

Thanks again for all who replied and the PM's.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Even verbal warnings and any performance issues must be written down and signed by yourself as well. If they don't have this, there is no proof.


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

I would strongly recomend you seek advice from a solicitor, although the CAB do a good job its run mainly by volenteers and some knowledge of this sort situation might not be enough. From your last post i would say the only thing you might get would be an increase in notice payment and this would be the route i would take, normally 3 months notice payment as you have only ben there 11 months. :? 
Any one can be got rid of, its how much it costs is the question :? Do not call your employer again simply write a letter and keep copies sending them recorded delivery, this way they can't say they've not recieved them ect. I would ask through a solicitor to see copies of the warning you have recieved and take their advice
I doubt however they will do anything and they know that a Tribunal will take a min of 2yrs even to be heard .
Jonah


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

You will probably find the fact that you have only been there for 11 months is critical. They have binned you before you get to 12 months and hence have any real comeback. It will take a good solicitor to check your contract and the terms and conditions to get you much I'd have thought :x It will at most be the value of salary lost in comparison with if they did follow the company's procedure. Most contracts allow you to be dumped at any point up to 12 months for no reason except if you are pregnant or the reason is racist or sexist or handicapist.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

ag said:


> You will probably find the fact that you have only been there for 11 months is critical. They have binned you before you get to 12 months and hence have any real comeback. It will take a good solicitor to check your contract and the terms and conditions to get you much I'd have thought :x It will at most be the value of salary lost in comparison with if they did follow the company's procedure. Most contracts allow you to be dumped at any point up to 12 months for no reason except if you are pregnant or the reason is racist or sexist or handicapist.


I thought that this was 6 months and not 12.


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## shelley (Nov 22, 2004)

It's definitely 12 months. They said so on Coronation Street.


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

Minimum time for normal employment rights is 12 months. A well worded contract will allow an employer not to use the disciplinary procedure to get rid during this time, although the notice period remains.

Ttej I'm really sorry for you, but in this instance their biggest fault is probably giving you a crap reason for releasing you. They could probably have just pulled you into the office and said that you will be leaving at the end of your notice period. As your notice is probably 1 month and they did this at the 11 month mark this was probably a calculated move on their part to downsize. It is a shame they couldn't be more honest about their motivation.

But, I'm no lawyer, so I could be wrong. Good luck because you have been treated poorly.


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## Gworks (Jan 20, 2003)

Sorry to hear about this TTej.  Ba$tards they are, absolute Ba$tards!!! I was fairly sure most co's had a 6months probationary scheme, I could be wrong though! :? Either way, continue in seeking advise and hopefully in the end, your solicitor will find a loophole in the contract to take further action. I hope you get them in the end matey. Here's hoping for ya! :wink: 
Glen.


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## L8_0RGY (Sep 12, 2003)

OMG 

I am shocked and sorry to hear this.

I'd suggest having a look on the net for employment lawyers if Kell's line is too expensive.


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## TTej (Sep 10, 2003)

Kam has put me in touch with a local guy, hes in wimbledon, well i have to send him everything, i managed to get all the past invoices that i had put through the business so that shoud hopefully overcome the 'lack of performance' claim, apart from that we will just have to see, the lawyer said he would have a look at everything and if there is a good case take it on a no win no fee basis, lets see what happens, keep your fingers crossed for me.

Thanks again lads.


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

will do fella - best of


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## TTej (Sep 10, 2003)

Just thought id update you guys to whats happened.

On saturday got my P45 through. I also recieved my paycheck, got my notice period, my holiday and surprise surprise...... My commission with a couple of hundred extra!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cant belive it, looks like ill call off the lawers on monday but all seems good again.

Thanks for all your help, i really mean that you guys have been a GREAT.

It looks like a merry xmas after all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Well yes, you will have food this Christmas, but what happens after that? I guess you will job hunting my January?


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## Dubcat (Jun 10, 2002)

I'm glad it's worked out for you mate 

My wife is just off to become a recruitment consultant (first day tomorrow). I've always had a particularly poor impression of this industry, further reinforced by the actions of your directors. I will tell her to be very very careful.

Dubcat.


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