# Initial M5 Report !! Now With Photos



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

I've only driven about 90miles so far but thought i'd post a brief report on my initial findings as i'll post a more detailed report when i get back from the Ring.

The car is very raw compared to anything i've owned & i have been spoilt having spent 18mths with the RS6 as the driving technique for an M5 is like night & day in comparison to the RS6. Prior to owning this one, i'd only previously driven an M5 a few miles with a Dealer Rep sat beside me, so i did not push on in any way but just playing with this one she is showing just how on the ball you have to be when driving her.

Already had a handful of fishtailing in 3rd & 4th & pulling away in damp conditions is just evil as the arse wants to break away at almost every opportunity. This is in the most hardcore settings which are perhaps not really designed for damp conditions.

No car has ever brought this kind of smile to my face & i just giggle every time i bury the loud pedal & the noise from the V10 is just so right.

It does feel faster than the RS6 even when she was at full tune, however i know this is not quite the case. The SMGIII box is very different & will take some getting used to but the car pulls & pulls even in the higher gears so i don't need to constantly be down shifting to make progress. One other thing i just love about the SMGIII is when you downshift, the throttle gets a little blip which really is fun round town.

Summary, this car feels so much more like a true performance car in almost every area, handling, noise, performance & traction, but i have a very very large learning curve to tackle as she does bite back & until i know where these bite points are & just how clever the driving aids are I will be taking things fairly easy.

The car is just awesome in every respect & i'm so so glad i made the move.

As said, i'll post a far more detailed report in a couple of weeks when i get back from The Ring & i'll try to grab some photos early next week, as the weather is $hite at the moment (where did summer go??)

Piccies:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showth ... post773297


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

Congrats Paul, looking forward to seeing it on the Ring trip.

Didn't expect you to come here and say the RS6 was better :wink: Do envy the oversteer :twisted:

Maybe you should have ordered this version I saw this morning at Oulton Park


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

omen666 said:


> Congrats Paul, looking forward to seeing it on the Ring trip.
> 
> Didn't expect you to come here and say the RS6 was better :wink: Do envy the oversteer :twisted:
> 
> Maybe you should have ordered this version I saw this morning at Oulton Park


Couldn't live with a white car.

It's ironic, as the RS6 was on paper a little quicker but should be equal after the DMS work, however what i can say without reservation is that the RS6 is far easier to drive, throw around, control & push hard in. Much the same as the 5th Gear RS4 vs M3 CS head to head. The RS is effortless, however the M is more fun & more demanding. Not sure which i'd classify as more rewarding, but if giggles are any measure then the M5 wins hands down as i could not stop laughing this morning & if i'd meant to keep flicking her ar$e out i'd have almost looked like i knew what was doing.

Will be good to get your opinion in a couple of weeks, as i've had that 4mth gap between my RS6 & the M5, so i'd welcome your thoughts being a current RS6 owner.


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

Look forward to it enjoy!

Mind you do you think you'll have finished the Owner's Manual in 2 weeks? Can imagine its pretty big with all the tricks it can do.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

omen666 said:


> Look forward to it enjoy!
> 
> Mind you do you think you'll have finished the Owner's Manual in 2 weeks? Can imagine its pretty big with all the tricks it can do.


You must be joking, it's the size of the feckin bible.

Plus point is that 90% of the functions are the same as the 535d so i'd pretty much got to grips with that after 4 months ownership :lol:

Just need to learn the M specific stuff which is very techincal & fairly comprehensive. JC was right that getting the car set-up correctly is a bit of a hardship, but practice will make perfect & that M button on the steering wheel does exactly what it says on the tin & the car starts breathing fire as soon as the button is pressed :twisted:


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Is this going to be your every day car Paul? I know you have the A4 as well...but do you also have a 3rd car?

Will you use it for trips to London?

I always wanted an M5 but what puts me off is the fuel economy as it will be my only car.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

I can't wait for the morning "start your engines" at the 'ring hotel :

[1] V8 - rumble rumble
[2] V8 with turbos - rumble rumble
[3] V10 - best engine in the world - "can anyone here a diesel?"

:wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

vlastan said:


> Is this going to be your every day car Paul? I know you have the A4 as well...but do you also have a 3rd car?
> 
> Will you use it for trips to London?
> 
> I always wanted an M5 but what puts me off is the fuel economy as it will be my only car.


V,

The M5 will be my everyday car & i will be using it for the odd drive down to London, but i don't expect my annual mileage to be more than 10K. The fuel bills will hurt, but no more so than the RS6 & where i will save is i have no intention of spending Â£14K on modifying the M5 (DMS re-map is all i'm doing) & the servicing costs/intervals are far better than the RS6, being around every 15-18K miles & only slightly more than a 530i petrol to service & finally being rear wheel drive i'll be chewing up rear tyres on the M5 at the same rate i was chewing up 4 tyres on the RS6, so that's a saving of Â£500 every 5000 miles.

We'll be using the A4 Cab for shopping, family stuff & as the run-about but the M5 will be used for some longer family journeys, playing, track days & business.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> I can't wait for the morning "start your engines" at the 'ring hotel :
> 
> [1] V8 - rumble rumble
> [2] V8 with turbos - rumble rumble
> ...


Don't forget the Porker (think it's a GT3), V6 bi-turbo RS4 & the other interesting motors.

What do you mean "can anyone hear a diesel"? 

IIRC, their were a couple of M mule cars in the hotel next door when we were their in September last year, one was the M6 Coupe & the other was an M6 Cabriolet (worst disguised mules i've ever seen with gaffa tape over the M wing slats a badges :lol: )


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

I love the M5.

White is coming back though. I remember a few years ago white would be the last colour I'd ever buy a car in. Now I find myself looking at white sportscars and wanting them. I think white is going to become fashionable again over the next couple of years.

Mind you, I do drive a Subaru.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Carlos said:


> I love the M5.
> 
> White is coming back though. I remember a few years ago white would be the last colour I'd ever buy a car in. Now I find myself looking at white sportscars and wanting them. I think white is going to become fashionable again over the next couple of years.
> 
> Mind you, I do drive a Subaru.


Cheers Carl,

I tend to agree with you & seeing that white 997 GT3 on the other thread, i can see white becoming very fashionable, however on a Sports Saloon i think white is just too much as their is so much metal & therefore it's kinda overpowering.

http://forums.e60.net/index.php?act=Att ... t&id=23741


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> What do you mean "can anyone hear a diesel"?
> 
> IIRC, their were a couple of M mule cars in the hotel next door when we were their in September last year, one was the M6 Coupe & the other was an M6 Cabriolet (worst disguised mules i've ever seen with gaffa tape over the M wing slats a badges :lol: )


I've yet to hear it in real life but both Fifth Gear and Top Gear commented how it sounded for the first fews seconds on startup.....same sort of thing with the TT actually. Only joking about it though - I wanna hear how it sounds at full chat 

There's were one or two M cars around 8)


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > What do you mean "can anyone hear a diesel"?
> ...


I'll let you into a little secret if you promise not to tell a sole, the reports are pretty much correct & it was a bit of a shock when i fired her up this morning. It does only last a few seconds & of course when the car is cold & i have no idea why, but the best non-technical explanation is that she needs to clear her throat :lol: as no word of a lie, once you blip the throttle that slight clatter has gone. You'll love the automatic throttle blip when changing down a gear. 8)


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> vlastan said:
> 
> 
> > Is this going to be your every day car Paul? I know you have the A4 as well...but do you also have a 3rd car?
> ...


Only 10k miles? So OK not that many. I am doing over 12k and I expect to have even more from autumn.

The combined fuel consumption is just 19.1 mpg...was the RS6 worse than this?


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> I'll let you into a little secret if you promise not to tell a sole, the reports are pretty much correct & it was a bit of a shock when i fired her up this morning.


OK I won't tell anyone. However I think the national TV programs and the fact this is the internet may perhaps means a couple of people know already.

Your secret's safe with me. :roll:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

vlastan said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > vlastan said:
> ...


It was about the same. The highest figures quoted & i can't recall what they call this (extra-urban or something) are 27.1mpg although i can't see that somehow. Don't forget that i can switch the car into a sudo calm cruising mode & cut the power back to P400 being 400BHP so that combined with a very light right foot should give fairly resonable cruising MPG's which will be in the main what business trips consist of.

So this would make the car slightly better MPG wise than the RS6, but given it's a far more modern engine & conforms to EU4 then i'd expect that, however when pushing on i doubt very much that it will be any better or worse than thew RS6. The DMS re-map on Wednesday will improve the MPG by a couple as well.


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## stephengreen (May 6, 2002)

Brave bloke going to the ring before your entirely use to the car, be careful [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Have you posted pictures yet ...cant find any  
Still getting used to my M3 at the moment it's a relief sometimes to get back into the A4 which is so much easier to drive, the M3 needs your full attention and is SOOO much faster than a TT so i can only imagine what another 160 bhp would mean....Probably beyond me at my age to be honest [smiley=bigcry.gif] Mind you I'd love the opportunity to find out!


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

Looking forward to seeing the piccies.

I wish I could have gone to the Ring at the same time as you guys at the end of the month, but the opportunity to do the Ring and Spa back to back was too good..


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Rob - I'm hopeing to do Spa and Ring back to back in October if you fancy a repeat of your May trip :wink:


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> Rob - I'm hopeing to do Spa and Ring back to back in October if you fancy a repeat of your May trip :wink:


If it's Monday 16th October at Spa, I'm there 

I wsn't sure whether to book Tuesday as well - let me know what your plans are

Cheers
Rob


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

That's the one. I should know whether I'm going or not by the end of next week.

I'll let you know. :wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

stephengreen said:


> Brave bloke going to the ring before your entirely use to the car, be careful [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Have you posted pictures yet ...cant find any
> Still getting used to my M3 at the moment it's a relief sometimes to get back into the A4 which is so much easier to drive, the M3 needs your full attention and is SOOO much faster than a TT so i can only imagine what another 160 bhp would mean....Probably beyond me at my age to be honest [smiley=bigcry.gif] Mind you I'd love the opportunity to find out!


Will be 200bhp on Wednesday after DMS have fetled her :wink:

I will certainly take care & am considering taking some tuition whilst their. I've no intention of bringing the car back on a trailer & i'll openly admit that i'm far from being proficient in driving this car & don't expect to be for some time so i'll not be pushing at The Ring (far from it).

Not taken any piccies yet as the Summer up Noooth has gone for the moment. I'll be trying to take some photos this week & will post a link here.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> stephengreen said:
> 
> 
> > Brave bloke going to the ring before your entirely use to the car, be careful [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Have you posted pictures yet ...cant find any
> ...


Why don't you let Sabrina (Or Sabina) drive your M5? She knows how to handle them safely! :wink:


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## Marque (Jun 4, 2003)

Sabine I do believe


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

Not sure if Sabine will be around, but the Ring Taxi M5's aren't running whilst we are there 

Would have been great to experience the M5 in the hands of a good driver, but never mind I'll just have to go out with Paul :wink: :lol:

(Don't take the bait Paul, ignore it!)


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

omen666 said:


> Not sure if Sabine will be around, but the Ring Taxi M5's aren't running whilst we are there
> 
> Would have been great to experience the M5 in the hands of a good driver, but never mind I'll just have to go out with Paul :wink: :lol:
> 
> (Don't take the bait Paul, ignore it!)


No worries mate. I think anyone who's owned an M5 for even a day longer than me could handle one better, they really are tricky little beasts. Been playing around with the M Button settings today but i'm going to have to fine tune next week when i'm in safer surroundings than UK roads.

I'd love to have a go with Sabine (in more ways than one :wink: ) but i'd not want her throwing my car round like she does with the Taxi. I'd need new tyres, pads & discs after just one lap :twisted:


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

Absolutely.

Looking foward to pouring over your car, will be bringing my camera for some action shots.

Stop talking about oversteer, its getting annoying as I can't have some!


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## ObiWan (Sep 25, 2005)

> No worries mate. I think anyone who's owned an M5 for even a day longer than me could handle one better, they really are tricky little beasts. Been playing around with the M Button settings today but i'm going to have to fine tune next week when i'm in safer surroundings than UK roads.
> 
> I'd love to have a go with Sabine (in more ways than one :wink: ) but i'd not want her throwing my car round like she does with the Taxi. I'd need new tyres, pads & discs after just one lap :twisted:


As you predicted I found only two M5's to check out at the weekend but loads of M6's. Never got time to test drive any though.

Sounds like you are having some serious fun. What is it like in the wet?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

ObiWan said:


> > No worries mate. I think anyone who's owned an M5 for even a day longer than me could handle one better, they really are tricky little beasts. Been playing around with the M Button settings today but i'm going to have to fine tune next week when i'm in safer surroundings than UK roads.
> >
> > I'd love to have a go with Sabine (in more ways than one :wink: ) but i'd not want her throwing my car round like she does with the Taxi. I'd need new tyres, pads & discs after just one lap :twisted:
> 
> ...


As this is not the Flame Room, i'll just say very very interesting & a little bit scary.

The 3 DSC (traction control) settings are full-on, a tiny bit on but not on enough that you don't shit yourself or full off which is just for people with some kind of sick death wish. With DSC full on the car will still drift & fish-tail happily, with the almost off setting it will only step in to correct if the car thinks you're about to die (that's too late for my current experience levels :lol: ) & the other is just wrong.

You can only engage the 6th level of gearbox ferrocity (nutter bonkers mode) if you have DSC fully switched off  :twisted:

The drive (forgeting it's a 4 door family saloon) is the closest i've felt to driving an F1 car although i've never actually driven an F1 car :lol: & i've been out in small track/sports cars, but this feels i.e dynamics, engine, throttle response, noise, traction & gearbox (so love the throttle blips on downshift) more akin to a sports car than anything i've ever driven or even pax'd in. I know it would not actually out handle Exiges & the like, but behind the wheel you really feel like you're driving a 100% sports car.


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> ...i've been out in small track/sports cars, but this feels i.e dynamics, engine, throttle response, noise, traction & gearbox (so love the throttle blips on downshift) more akin to a sports car than anything i've ever driven or even pax'd in. I know it would not actually out handle Exiges & the like, but behind the wheel you really feel like you're driving a 100% sports car.


Funny that... When I drive my Exige on track, I know it won't actually outsprint 4 door saloons like M5's, but when I pass them it really feels like it :wink:

On a serious note, do you have any concerns re BMW's warranty with the DMS remap? DMS do a map that takes the CSL to 372bhp and removes the delimiter, but I've heard stories of clutch slip issues with SMG II (which also does downshift blips, btw) and wouldn't want to face problems in the event of having to make a claim.

Cheers
Rob


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Don't worry about it. I remember him saying that modding was behind him after the RS6.

He won't be doing all that again! :roll:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

b3ves said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > ...i've been out in small track/sports cars, but this feels i.e dynamics, engine, throttle response, noise, traction & gearbox (so love the throttle blips on downshift) more akin to a sports car than anything i've ever driven or even pax'd in. I know it would not actually out handle Exiges & the like, but behind the wheel you really feel like you're driving a 100% sports car.
> ...


Rob, i've got no worries as the M5 has SMG III which by all accounts is stronger (& 20% quicker) than the previous incarnations & much the same as with my 535d, i've heard no horror stories as yet about DMS work on M5's & given their own MD's car is an E60 M5 (was a 535d) they have bench tested fully on that car with parrameters much higher than i'll be getting.

Going back to my quote, perhaps i should have said Sports Saloon & to quantify, the closest overall driving experience (ignoring the shape) i've had to driving the M5 was driving a 360 Challenge Stradale, the drive is that involving (to me) & i've driven many 996 Turbos & the M5 feels more sports car like. My longer experiences have been with bigger performance saloons such as the S8 & of course the RS6 with a couple of TT's & other stuff thrown in, but none of these cars feel anywhere close to as well set up or as suited as the M5 does & none as close to the excitment levels.

Also note that it really is only the small go-kart like cars that have the ability to shine on track, as even in the RS6 i was able to match & pass exotic performance cars such as Lambos & Ferraris & keep up with many 996 Turbos (driver experience matched).

Ideally i would love to have both sorts of cars but i for some reason see the comprimise as a better scenario for now as i can only get a pass out for a low number of track events. If i could get to say 10+ a year then perhaps i'd re-consider & an M3 CSL & Exige would be about as perfect a balance as i could get.


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## ObiWan (Sep 25, 2005)

Not sure my nerves or local roads are ready for this level of excitement, not just yet anyway 

I will need a much longer breaking in time than you are obviously allowing yourself if I make the leap. How normal, if its not to dumb a question, can it be for everyday driving?

Sue would also be using mine at times and I have obvious concerns with her only using it occassionally if its bite cannot be subdued?

Barry


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

ObiWan said:


> Not sure my nerves or local roads are ready for this level of excitement, not just yet anyway
> 
> I will need a much longer breaking in time than you are obviously allowing yourself if I make the leap. How normal, if its not to dumb a question, can it be for everyday driving?
> 
> ...


Barry,

The car can quite easily be tamed, but it just begs you to switch to higher performance settings & go a bit crazy, as that's what the car was designed for.

You can keep the power pegged back to 400 as that's the start-up default & you can keep the SMG set to the 1st level (least aggresive) the DSC (traction control) set to maximum & the EDC (suspension etc.) set to comfort & the car will be very usable & in D/S mode it will act & drive a bit like a semi-automatic although it's a bit clunky, takes longer to change gear & will be in 7th gear before you reach 40MPH, but it works & is acceptable as a daily drive. However this is not what the car is really set-up for & my wife has already said that although she was scared of the RS6, she's terrified of the M5.


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## ObiWan (Sep 25, 2005)

Thanks for the advice Paul, I will show this to Sue tonight.

We are setting up a couple of test drives over the next couple of weeks, delayed because I am travelling with work a lot at the moment, and your reports are definately wetting my appetite so keep posting  .

Sue prefers the RS4 because of the four wheel drive and where we live it gets pretty bad in winter. (If we get the M5 will probably keep the TT for the worst of the conditions anyway, plus Sue has her own TT). I read your comments re the RS6 and the M5 but did you test drive the new RS4 and is there any comparison?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

ObiWan said:


> Thanks for the advice Paul, I will show this to Sue tonight.
> 
> We are setting up a couple of test drives over the next couple of weeks, delayed because I am travelling with work a lot at the moment, and your reports are definately wetting my appetite so keep posting  .
> 
> Sue prefers the RS4 because of the four wheel drive and where we live it gets pretty bad in winter. (If we get the M5 will probably keep the TT for the worst of the conditions anyway, plus Sue has her own TT). I read your comments re the RS6 and the M5 but did you test drive the new RS4 and is there any comparison?


Barry,

I've driven a new RS4 & whilst they are cracking cars the 2 are not that alike to drive. The new RS4 is very similar in many ways to the RS6 although of course not quite as fast, that being it's very point & squirt.

I don't see myself as anything better than a fairly good driver, however the RS's are so easy to drive very quickly & so very safe, but that also means they don't come across as involving or driver focussed (if that makes sense). The M5 is more akin to a Ferrari or Porsche in it's driver involvement, handling & set-up, that being sports car 1st & foremost & practical 4 door saloon 2nd, the RS's are both this in equal measures.

I have no doubt i could get round the Ring is no lesser time driving the M5 than i could the RS6, but & it's a big but the M5 would be more fun by huge multiples & i'd feel more rewarded at the end of it, being i did the lap & not the car. I think the posted times show an M5 has got round quicker than an RS6 (by about 10secs IIRC), but remember my RS6 was over 100BHP more powerful than a standard RS6 & the handling had been improved greatly with a Sportec/H&R set-up.

It's much the same as the 5th Gear M3 CS vs RS4 test they did a couple of weeks ago in which the RS4 did win but it was easy to win in the RS4 & the M3 was not far behind & was far more fun. Add a better gearbox an extra 200BHP (& a little more weight) & their you have the M5.


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## ObiWan (Sep 25, 2005)

Paul,

Makes complete sense and listening to you definately helps my own thinking greatly.

Nothing to do now but get the test drives done and negotiate with Sue how much driving she might want to do?

Thanks

Barry


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> b3ves said:
> 
> 
> > W7 PMC said:
> ...


Paul, you might want to check out some of the reports from the E60 M5 board of BM3W:


> _
> debating whether to finally join the party...seems i can't not do really...
> 
> i can pick one up at list so availiability is fine...but it seems there are quite a few gremlins.
> ...





> _
> Just joined the forum due to the number of faults that I have had with my M5..... I have had a bad judder when pulling away cold since day 1!!!! Have had flywheel and clutch changed x2 new gearbox fitted and is now back in dealers again due to same problems. Seems that this is not a isolated
> _





> _
> picked mine up today..
> 
> judders very slightly on take off...says transmission fault!!!
> ...





> _
> Been told mine needs yet another clutch and flywheel ................. is there a fault with the new M5?
> _


_
_
I'd be very surprised if BMW were to honour warranty claims for issues such as this on chipped cars.... :?


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

No wonder it was slower than the Maser around the track. It needed a pitstop to change the flywheel half way round... :wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

b3ves said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > b3ves said:
> ...


Rob,

The reports are based on very low numbers & to date most seem to be US based problems (serves them right as the car is sooo cheap over their) as the settings are quite different on US M5's. I've heard of the problem in the UK (called transmission slam) on a few E60's but not specific to M5's & most problems are on the early cars with dated software. Newer software versions all but eliminate this problem in all but the most extreme cases & i certainly don't have any problems with the transmission on my car to date & bear in mind it has the most recent software installed so i should not see any problems.

All SMG boxes are notchy when cold, hence why the SMG servo powers up for around 10secs when you unlock the doors, but once warm & as you already know, they are peachy & I had no problems with mine & it was pushed quite hard at times & with close to 50BHP extra power.

If mine does develop problems then it will be replaced under warranty by the dealer so i'm not overly concerned & having been out in the Ring Taxi this time, i could not push my car to within 50% of how hard those M5's are worked.

Pretty much all cars have some gremlins & i'm sure M5's are no different to RS6's, RS4's, TT's other E60's etc. as all these cars & many others have a raft of known problems that sometimes show up on cars but this never seems to affect every car with perhaps the exception of coil packs & dropping windows 

Time will tell but i'm not worried & have heard from far more happy owners than unhappy owners.

Have fun & watch out as the weather at Nurburgring has led to many crashes over the last few days.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Piccies:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showth ... post773297


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> b3ves said:
> 
> 
> > W7 PMC said:
> ...


Paul, I'm sorry to resurrect this thread, but your post just now re M5 engine reminded me to check on what you had to say. Frankly I'm still bewildered at how you confidently expect BMW to honour any warranty claim for gearbox, clutch or flywheel when you've chipped it? :?

Re the comments about US cars and issues not affecting M5's, the posts were on the E60 M5 section of bm3w.co.uk, not some US board :?

Re the Ring Taxi M5's, I doubt very much as to whether they've been down to DMS for a remap 

Rob


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

The Ring Taxi's are driven by very good drivers....they don't need remaps

And if the gb gives out BMW aren't going to quibble. The brand value of the 'Ring Franchise' will dictate any VM will maintain their cars at any cost. Just think how many discs and pads they go through.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

b3ves said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > b3ves said:
> ...


Rob,

I've actually now investigated this more & was not intending to raise the topic again. However i've yet to hear of any DMS re-map causing any specific SMG problems, but have heard of a few standard cars boxes going pop, so therefore you know my answer as i can't see BMW making a huge deal if mine or any other DMS fettled M5 went pop given it's a known factor on standard cars (i know of one standard US M5 on it's 3rd gearbox) & therefore highly unlikely that BMW will try to investigate or wriggle out of the problem. The problem is still more specific to US M5's as their SMG & engine ECU's are mapped differently to UK cars & I only know of about 3 in the UK (could be more of course).

You also know full well that Audi Honoured all warranty claims on my RS6, including a full brand new gearbox at a cost of around Â£14K & that car was blatantly modified to such a degree it took them an extra day to put the car back together due to non standard Intercoolers, engine & gearbox oil coolers & all the relevant piping & Sportec carbon fibre ducting, let alone the full Milltek & ecu re-map.

Why should BMW be any different when dealing with a known issue on standard cars???


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> You also know full well that Audi Honoured all warranty claims on my RS6, including a full brand new gearbox at a cost of around Â£14K & that car was blatantly modified to such a degree it took them an extra day to put the car back together due to non standard Intercoolers, engine & gearbox oil coolers & all the relevant piping & Sportec carbon fibre ducting, let alone the full Milltek & ecu re-map.


You must have been cacking it a bit surely? You were a lucky boy, sure you appreciate that...


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> Why should BMW be any different when dealing with a known issue on standard cars???


Because (so I'm told) they have a strict policy when it comes to warranty claims on modified cars. That's what I picked up from a thread on the M3 board when someone posted about putting a DMS remap on a CSL.

If it was me, I'd post on bm3w to get some opinions


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

And now BMW have put a Â£250 excess on M car warranties is it worth it?

Better spend the remap money on driver training and use that to get true performance gains....especially as you can take those gains on to your next car


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

omen666 said:


> And now BMW have put a Â£250 excess on M car warranties is it worth it?


I'm pretty certain that it only applies to extended warranties, but regardless I don't personally think it's worth the risk.


> Better spend the remap money on driver training and use that to get true performance gains....especially as you can take those gains on to your next car


Wise words


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

I am told there was a Blue M5 Ring Taxi for 1 day only in May 2006


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

omen666 said:


> I am told there was a Blue M5 Ring Taxi for 1 day only in May 2006


ROFL, geddit now :lol:


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

omen666 said:


> Better spend the remap money on driver training and use that to get true performance gains....especially as you can take those gains on to your next car


Is that the approach you tend to take? :roll: :wink:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

b3ves said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Why should BMW be any different when dealing with a known issue on standard cars???
> ...


I have heard exactly the same from a BMW tech about modded BMWs , so I would be very cautious Paul. You were very lucky last time...and Audi treated you very well. BMW might not be so benevolent.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Carlos said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > You also know full well that Audi Honoured all warranty claims on my RS6, including a full brand new gearbox at a cost of around Â£14K & that car was blatantly modified to such a degree it took them an extra day to put the car back together due to non standard Intercoolers, engine & gearbox oil coolers & all the relevant piping & Sportec carbon fibre ducting, let alone the full Milltek & ecu re-map.
> ...


OK, maybe a tiny weeny bit :wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

b3ves said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Why should BMW be any different when dealing with a known issue on standard cars???
> ...


Rob,

I appreciate your concern, but you pays your money & you takes your gamble. According to DMS & Autocar, their are now about 35+ DMS M5's in the UK & i've yet to here of a problem. This modification scenario applies to any modern car with mods but it does not & will not stop the thousands of owners out their modifying their cars.

Aslo note that the SMG in an M5 is version 3 & the CSL only has version 2. This biggest changes are strength due to CSL & standard M3 SMG failures & responsiveness, as the SMG3 is 20% quicker & about 40% stronger that SMG2 & about the same multiple again to SMG1 so i'm not overly worried.

Cars will always fail but as the DMS map is invisible according to both DMS & the couple of BMW technicians i've asked & the fact SMG3 is stronger than SMG2, i'm not going to lose any sleep & am confident BMW will honour any problems i have. Also note that if the shit did hit the fan, i'd have DMS back in a flash to wipe their mapping at no charge (they've agreed to this as part of their service).


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

omen666 said:


> And now BMW have put a Â£250 excess on M car warranties is it worth it?
> 
> Better spend the remap money on driver training and use that to get true performance gains....especially as you can take those gains on to your next car


Not applicable to my M car.

You already know the DMS map is in place so i can hardly divert the money given it's been spent.

Driver training already on it. Did a 1 day course 2 weeks ago & another coming up later this year, plus did the same session as you at Nurburgring with Stefan (perhaps i got his name wrong), so i'm on the case. Also got instruction as Spa in October. 8)


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

omen666 said:


> I am told there was a Blue M5 Ring Taxi for 1 day only in May 2006


Actually 6 days if you include the crossing back & the 4 days before i managed to find time to wash the car.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

...I see the M6 pipped the M5 at the 0-100-0 test in this weeks Autocar. :wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> ...I see the M6 pipped the M5 at the 0-100-0 test in this weeks Autocar. :wink:


Yeah, but they don't look quite as good & cost Â£20K more :wink:


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## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

clived said:


> omen666 said:
> 
> 
> > Better spend the remap money on driver training and use that to get true performance gains....especially as you can take those gains on to your next car
> ...


Tis now Clive :wink:


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

omen666 said:


> I am told there was a Blue M5 Ring Taxi for 1 day only in May 2006


Just found a snap of it parked up:









:roll:


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

Don't go giving him ideas :lol:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> omen666 said:
> 
> 
> > I am told there was a Blue M5 Ring Taxi for 1 day only in May 2006
> ...


Excellent :lol: ,

Although to be totally correct, the Ring Taxi & in fact many European M5's (continent) don't have the M-rear Spoiler, but that's just splitting hairs.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> Driver training already on it. Did a 1 day course 2 weeks ago & another coming up later this year, plus did the same session as you at Nurburgring with Stefan (perhaps i got his name wrong), so i'm on the case. Also got instruction as Spa in October. 8)


Keep going like that and you'll be able to keep up with 390bhp S4's. :wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Driver training already on it. Did a 1 day course 2 weeks ago & another coming up later this year, plus did the same session as you at Nurburgring with Stefan (perhaps i got his name wrong), so i'm on the case. Also got instruction as Spa in October. 8)
> ...


No problem 

Once i've learnt how to keep the bloody car in a straight line, i'll have a go plus get another 60 Ring laps under my belt :wink: .

The learning curve is coming along nicely & i'm enjoying the car more & more. You defo coming to Spa & Ring in October now?? That thread on TDH has gone a little quiet.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> The learning curve is coming along nicely











:roll:


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > The learning curve is coming along nicely
> ...


ROFLMAO :lol:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > The learning curve is coming along nicely
> ...


Quality :lol:


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