# Tyres and why is the Michelin 4S so over-hyped?



## Emanuel29 (Oct 28, 2019)

Went from Pirelli P-Zero to Michelin Pilot Super Sport 4S because everybody recommends them.
My honest opinion?

They are absolutely s**t

I've also tried Yokohama Advan's, which were less noisy than both Michelin and Pirelli but even less performance than the Pilot SS4S but nothing to complain because they cost way less than both Pirelli and MS.

Are you people just recommending these Michelin because they last a little bit longer?

What other tyres have you guys tried and are recommending?

Have you ever tried the P-Zero from Pirelli? How do they feel against Michelin's?

Next time, I am going to try the Cup 2 tyres too, if not even those are close to Pirelli in dry conditions, then, I am not getting scammed again by them, ever, lol.


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## leopard (May 1, 2015)

Depends what car they're fitted to. I've never recommended them for the tt or any Michelin come to think of it.

If you want an all round great tyre for the tt look no further than Goodyear Eagles. They have always been consistent from the mk1 through to mk3 and you get the added bonus of decent rim protection too.


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## Mark Pred (Feb 1, 2017)

They're excellent, end of. I have them on my TTS. Wet and dry handling is fantastic, grip is great, wear very slowly and fuel consumption good too. These are opinions shared by many, which is why we rate them so highly for the TT :roll: So, why don't you actually tell us all what you don't like about them [smiley=bomb.gif]


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## langlord (Mar 21, 2010)

I would agree they have more road noise over the pzero.

I have found performance in all conditions to be very good.

Cant comment on ware rates as I have only put 2,000 miles on them to date.


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## ross_t_boss (Feb 28, 2017)

Because you can pull stats like this on them, it's the best performance "daily driver" tyre going before running track/semi-slicks, wear at a reasonable rate and has good and predictable behaviour...









Outstanding in the wet too. As per Mark, they are the go-to tyre for many a driving enthusiast, which is nothing to do with "hype" but comes from experience.

If road noise and price are your only qualifiers, then they are not to the tyre for you. But if that's the case I have no idea why you'd go with a CUP2 as that is borderline semi-slick, the PS4S will piss all over it in damp & cold conditions but be left behind once the CUPs get up to temperature.

I'd say things to be aware of - they are quite a soft side-wall, road noise is above average (but not excessive), and they might scare your passengers as to how capable they are - especially in the wet. Running alot more camber really helps with the soft sidewall, also run pressures a bit higher. Tend to have mine around 35F/32R HOT.

Are you sure you you didn't get the PS4? It's a less capable tyre, although available in 17" and surprisingly good, I have them on my RS2. What exactly is the issue, because most people will give you experience.


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## JoshB (Sep 27, 2019)

I'll be keeping an eye on this.
Mine has the Yoko Advan's on which are OK. I'm pretty sure the rears are the originals as they're starting to crack between the tread (not bad for 45k). They're jumpy when cold but not bad warmed up.

Personally I was looking at the Vredestien Ultrac Vorti. I had these on a MK7 VW Golf GTi and they were leaps above the Bridgestones they replaced.


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## leopard (May 1, 2015)

ross_t_boss said:


> Because you can pull stats like this on them, it's the best performance "daily driver" tyre going before running track/semi-slicks, wear at a reasonable rate and has good and predictable behaviour...


Meh, that's sweet fcuk all.
A jet can pull 9g and it don't need tyres [smiley=jester.gif]


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## Emanuel29 (Oct 28, 2019)

I had the Michelin Pilot Super Sport 4S, not the old ones so yeah, I am talking about the right tyres.
What I am telling you is that they are just normal tyres with maybe a little bit more wet traction and NOTHING else.
Once I put them on, the first thing I've noticed is the car is not even half as sharp as it used to with the Pirellis. handling-wise
They are boring tyres, greatly overpriced which I've consumed in less than 15K kilometers and I am not complaining about the wear as my car is staged and has almost 500NM of torque.
To all of you who got the Michelin because they read that they are good and maybe feel like, please, but please, go with the Pirelli P-Zero's one time. You will not spend a penny on Michelin anymore and will know what I am talking about. It is just another car with the Pirelli's and Michelin can get nowhere near handling-wise.

Someone asked why I need the Cup 2 tyres, I want to try them out because my car will lose traction even in the fourth gear under WOT and I feel like they are my last chance to eliminate the wheelspin under WOT. Yeah, it happened with all of them, one thing I noticed was that Pirelli were getting hot much more faster than the Michelin and the Yokohama's. Again, Yokohama for that price is a freaking good tyre and I am not complaining, I don't think there's a less noisy tyre on the market right now than the Advans.


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## ross_t_boss (Feb 28, 2017)

Emanuel29 said:


> my car will lose traction even in the fourth gear under WOT and I feel like they are my last chance to eliminate the wheelspin under WOT.


If you can' get traction until 4th gear, that is not normal! Stop changing your tyres and start with the Haldex maybe! I can't even get the tyres to spin in 2nd gear with 750NM.


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## Emanuel29 (Oct 28, 2019)

ross_t_boss said:


> Emanuel29 said:
> 
> 
> > my car will lose traction even in the fourth gear under WOT and I feel like they are my last chance to eliminate the wheelspin under WOT.
> ...


I am living on an island where the streets are very bad, tree roots coming out of the asphalt I guess that it is an intervention from the engine which I can't find to disable in OBD. Or the map is done bad (which I highly doubt) or maybe it is that I got just the ECU staged and not the TCU? You made me curious though, what should I keep an eye on other than the Haldex? The haldex oil has been changed few weeks ago and they didn't say anything about it...

By the way, maybe I said it wrong:
If I kickdown in S or D from 6th to 4th, 4th to 3th, 3th to 2nd I will get the wheelspin and by wheelspin, I don't really hear the wheels spinning because the system intervenes before them spinning but I see the yellow light. On ESC Sport or OFF I don't have that...
But, if I do manual and WOT in any gear without kickdown there's 0 wheelspin.


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## kevin#34 (Jan 8, 2019)

are the P-zero you are talking about the R01 (oem tire), or the P-zero new??



Emanuel29 said:


> I had the Michelin Pilot Super Sport 4S, not the old ones so yeah, I am talking about the right tyres.
> What I am telling you is that they are just normal tyres with maybe a little bit more wet traction and NOTHING else.
> Once I put them on, the first thing I've noticed is the car is not even half as sharp as it used to with the Pirellis. handling-wise
> They are boring tyres, greatly overpriced which I've consumed in less than 15K kilometers and I am not complaining about the wear as my car is staged and has almost 500NM of torque.
> ...


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## Emanuel29 (Oct 28, 2019)

kevin#34 said:


> are the P-zero you are talking about the R01 (oem tire), or the P-zero new??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know they fit me those in Germany I suppose they were R01, I didn't even look as those were my first tyres and I was sure that the handling is because of the car but no, they were the ones impacting in a great way the handling. Have found it later, when I switched to Michelin and other tyres.


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## ross_t_boss (Feb 28, 2017)

Emanuel29 said:


> By the way, maybe I said it wrong:
> If I kickdown in S or D from 6th to 4th, 4th to 3th, 3th to 2nd I will get the wheelspin and by wheelspin, I don't really hear the wheels spinning because the system intervenes before them spinning but I see the yellow light. On ESC Sport or OFF I don't have that...
> But, if I do manual and WOT in any gear without kickdown there's 0 wheelspin.


That makes alot more sense, I find the traction control is overly sensitive, after remapping it is even worse. It doesn't take much difference in wheel speed for it to kick in. I sometimes feel what feels like slight boost cuts or misfiring in 3/4 gear and start wondering what is broken... not enough usually to even get the light flashing. Then realise I haven't put ESP into Sport, press it and floor it = problem solved.

When I take logs it's really common to see maybe 5-10% difference in the wheel speed traces (that's just "slip angle" in the tyre and 5-15% is where best traction is found, differs between tyres - I have been told the PS4S is about 7% for example). A tyre being pushed will have some slip and the issue is, with increased power (and open diffs) it's not unusual to unload one tyre and it spin up a few mph - more exaggerated of course on poor and bumpy surfaces - and you really feel the power cut with it remapped. So I'd sum up that the problem is, on limits of traction, the TCS is too aggressive and cuts power 'for your safety' - Sport on the other hand allows it and I wish it could be set to default!

Suspension can be set up for compliance over bumps too, not that I'd go softer than stock but if local roads are like rally stages that is something to consider if you go after-market. If you have magride you might find it better in comfort or Auto; my Individual setting is 'Dynamic' everything except suspension, which retains 'Comfort'.

Getting back to tyres, many of these top-tier are within a few % of each other when you see the 'G' limits and lap times. But each will have different 'slip angle' characteristics, so TCS may actually play better with some tyres that let go more suddenly. Where as a more 'passive' tyre that slips gradually and doesn't give up as much grip is my preference for a road tyre - much easier to feel the limits as it slips without giving up grip - my thoughts would be the PS4S is more inclined this way, and might be why you don't like it but others rave about it. Tyres do start to become a personal thing, and driving conditions and style can influence your preference of one tyre than another. When pushing it, your confidence is the biggest factor, it's no use having the "best" tyre according to some internet test if you don't have confidence in how it feels when pushing it.


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## Emanuel29 (Oct 28, 2019)

ross_t_boss said:


> Emanuel29 said:
> 
> 
> > By the way, maybe I said it wrong:
> ...


You are totally right. Individual, everything Dynamic - Traction to Auto - Suspension to Comfort always as I do have the mag-ride. Is it just me or just the suspension being softer makes the car feel much more faster than in Dynamic? Or it really is? Even in LC I use Individual or Comfort. When it rains, I use Auto when driving hard because comfort has scaried me two times. Never happens in Auto or Individual with those settings, though.

Edit: and yeah about the tyres, might be personal preference but if you didn't I'd recommend switching to P-Zero's just one time and see the handling. It is another car for me. While, the others manufacturers just seem all the same, one better in wet (but not exaggerated better), one less noisy and so on but with the PZ it is just next level.


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## Hugo rugged (Mar 31, 2020)

Hi Emanuel

I think you will be wasting your money on cup 2 just for road use, over the year's I've done loads of track day's cars and bikes, cup 2 are brilliant on track but on the road you can never get enough heat in then to feel the benefits unless you use your car mainly for track and you need a tyre to drive there, do the track and drive home again, save your money, as for the p zero's I don't like then especially in the wet I've had the front wash out several time's and aqua plain at high speeds, which I've never had ps4s so I can't wait to get back to the Michelins

Russell


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## Mark Pred (Feb 1, 2017)

ross_t_boss said:


> Because you can pull stats like this on them, it's the best performance "daily driver" tyre going before running track/semi-slicks, wear at a reasonable rate and has good and predictable behaviour...
> 
> 
> Outstanding in the wet too. As per Mark, they are the go-to tyre for many a driving enthusiast, which is nothing to do with "hype" but comes from experience.
> ...


Excellent post 8) Clearly you know your onions. Thank you


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## Emanuel29 (Oct 28, 2019)

Hugo rugged said:


> Hi Emanuel
> 
> I think you will be wasting your money on cup 2 just for road use, over the year's I've done loads of track day's cars and bikes, cup 2 are brilliant on track but on the road you can never get enough heat in then to feel the benefits unless you use your car mainly for track and you need a tyre to drive there, do the track and drive home again, save your money, as for the p zero's I don't like then especially in the wet I've had the front wash out several time's and aqua plain at high speeds, which I've never had ps4s so I can't wait to get back to the Michelins
> 
> Russell


Thank you for the review.
Out of all the tyres you've tried, which are the ones to get hot the fastest?

As for the waterplaning, it's weird because I've never had one using the Pirellis on 255/30/20

Edit: never had one as for passing without noticing


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## kevin#34 (Jan 8, 2019)

as for the waterplaning, with huge water on the road, there is no tire that doesn't suffer from it at speed.. especially when they are 200 or more in size..


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