# National Service.



## GRANNY (Jun 18, 2002)

I was just wondering what people would think about the return of National Service. Personally i think it would be a good thing,in other countries it is compulsary to do 2 years. I reckon it would teach alot of people some sense of values,and also right from wrong. Granted some youngsters a great people but would it do them any harm, I think not.What age should it be from? 17/19, or 18/20. or older.


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## TSCN (May 23, 2006)

Being 19 I must disagree completely 

Silly idea....

No way.....

Wait untill I'm over the age for conscription and I just might change my mind :roll:


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## Johnnywb (May 31, 2006)

I think it would be a great idea. I'm 22 and would be only too happy to do it. IMO i think if it were introduced, people should do it when they finish full time education, so at either 16 or 18 or when you finish University, but people going to Uni would have the choice to do it at 18 as well.

I did five years in the combined cadet force which tought me a lot of things, especially repect and responsibility, both for yourself and for others, which sadly seems to be lacking in the youth of today. (jesus i sound old).

Whilst i've decided against a regular military career now, i'm still considering joining the TA because of the skills i think the military gives you.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

If you've watched Bad Lads Army and seen the difference it can make to those guys then I think it would only be a good thing for everyone to do it.

However things seem to be going the other way. In Sweden until just a few years ago then still had "lumpen" but they've also now stopped it.


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

The only thing that worries me is that chavs would be taught how to use arms effectively :?


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

Introduce it post - University / college (ie age 21/22), to be completed before age of 30.

Any graduate who goes in and does (say) 2 years has their student debt written off.

1. That removes the fees disincentive for school leavers without Â£30k in their piggy bank from going ot Uni.

2. Therefore uni attendance continues to increase and we all get more cleverer.

3. But the country doesn't get flooded with "know-nothing-about-life" media studies graduates, 'cos then they go do their Nat Service and learn about real life. And how to kill people in far away places (usually whilst dodging American bullets).

4. Any non-Uni grad with an approved skill (eg plumber, electrician, etc) can opt out of Nat Service, or, if they go in, they get the Â£30k as additional payment. This is to encourage the non-violents to get a real-life useful skill.

5. Any illegal immigrants just do 2 years Nat Serv. In the country they came from. It's a one-way ticket though.

6. Any asylum seeker ditto. Their application is processed whilst they're away, so most won't need to come back.

I should *definitely* go into politics. Obvious vote winner.


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## Wolfsburger (Oct 21, 2002)

It`s a bad idea. Here`s why.....

If you hadn`t already noticed the British Forces are pretty busy at the moment playing at being Blair`s International Police Force. I`m sure they have neither the resources or the inclination to train a bunch of nobbers for a two year engagement. I`m sure they also wouldn`t want to have to rely on a conscript when things get sticky in some far away place.

It shouldn`t be left to the Forces to do the dirty work for society, proper parenting and policing (ideally supported by the Government, fat chance) should be all that`s needed to sort these people out.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2006)

Wolfsburger said:


> It`s a bad idea. Here`s why.....
> 
> If you hadn`t already noticed the British Forces are pretty busy at the moment playing at being Blair`s International Police Force. I`m sure they have neither the resources or the inclination to train a bunch of nobbers for a two year engagement. I`m sure they also wouldn`t want to have to rely on a conscript when things get sticky in some far away place.
> 
> It shouldn`t be left to the Forces to do the dirty work for society, proper parenting and policing (ideally supported by the Government, fat chance) should be all that`s needed to sort these people out.


proper parenting can only get you so far with the youth of today. they dont have an effect on them when they go "hang out" with their mates.

I think its a good idea and will straighten out most chav's in todays society. Also teaches them respect for others above them (instead of showing off infront of their mates all through school) etc, responsability (looking after their shiny shoes, tidy bed, folded+ironed clothes etc) the list is endless.

TTonyTT - you'll get my vote :wink:


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

I dont agree National Service should be brought back so it's compulsery. However i think we should work on a 3 strike and your signed up way. Any young offenders from the ages off 16 to 18 get 3 chances. If they commit 3 crimes then they are put striaght into the army for 2 years. No appealing.


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

It all depends on if the country still needs to rely on conscription to supply "canon fodder". I hope not.

Kids are no different now to how they've always been. Any perceived drop in their ability to interact with society as a whole is due to poor role models and ineffective parenting. This in itsself is not new. Those parents that don't know how to raise their children were probably themselves raised by people with the same lack of skills.

Money can paper over the cracks, but improved parenting skills would really make a difference and stop the cycle.

Boot camps don't solve anything, and what would you do with those that have children, surely even a Chav mother has the right to raise her own children! However badly.

At the end of the day only education really makes a difference to your ability to make choices.


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## Wolfsburger (Oct 21, 2002)

AndyRoo_TT said:


> Also teaches them respect for others above them (instead of showing off infront of their mates all through school) etc, responsability (looking after their shiny shoes, tidy bed, folded+ironed clothes etc) the list is endless.


These are jobs for parents aren`t they?


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## Johnnywb (May 31, 2006)

I wouldn't be surprised to see something come back in. Has anyone else noticed the increase in ads for Army careers on the TV? The British military is so depleted now due to cut backs, many argue that we would be unable to fight a war on two fronts. If you look at the current situation most of our 'Spearhead" forces (Royal Marines, Paras, Air Assault Brigades) Are overstretched and the Government are relying more and more on the Terretorials and Reservists. Some form of National Service would be an easy way to boost numbers, and i bet a reasonable percentage would stay on in military service as a career.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2006)

Wolfsburger said:


> AndyRoo_TT said:
> 
> 
> > Also teaches them respect for others above them (instead of showing off infront of their mates all through school) etc, responsability (looking after their shiny shoes, tidy bed, folded+ironed clothes etc) the list is endless.
> ...


you'd think so wouldnt you. Obviously not all parents are model parents and cant do this as children dont come with manuals.


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## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

I believe that National Service should be compulsory for "youths" who have got into trouble. Most of these a good lads who lack direction (ref to ITV Bad Lads) so if a Magistrate could order 2 years National Service without a criminal record, then most youths would be brought back into line.


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## thebears (Jan 14, 2006)

genocidalduck said:


> I dont agree National Service should be brought back so it's compulsery. However i think we should work on a 3 strike and your signed up way. Any young offenders from the ages off 16 to 18 get 3 chances. If they commit 3 crimes then they are put striaght into the army for 2 years. No appealing.


Or issued an ASBO = Straight in, do not pass go, do not collect Â£200 :lol:


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## Wolfsburger (Oct 21, 2002)

AndyRoo_TT said:


> Obviously not all parents are model parents and cant do this as children dont come with manuals.


Agreed, but the Forces shouldn`t pick up the responsibility to educate these people just because their parents are too lazy or too stupid to do it themselves.

As I said before, the Forces are pretty busy at the moment.


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

thebears said:


> genocidalduck said:
> 
> 
> > I dont agree National Service should be brought back so it's compulsery. However i think we should work on a 3 strike and your signed up way. Any young offenders from the ages off 16 to 18 get 3 chances. If they commit 3 crimes then they are put striaght into the army for 2 years. No appealing.
> ...


 :lol: Rather than a anti-social order. Get sent to the army for re-education. Thats a good i dea.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2006)

Wolfsburger said:


> AndyRoo_TT said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously not all parents are model parents and cant do this as children dont come with manuals.
> ...


better than leaving them to roam the streets: mugging, stealing, carjacking, joy riding - general chav day-to-day things :?



Wolfsburger said:


> As I said before, the Forces are pretty busy at the moment.


doesnt look like it judging by the amount of adverts on the TV - looks like they cant get enough!


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## Wolfsburger (Oct 21, 2002)

AndyRoo_TT said:


> better than leaving them to roam the streets: mugging, stealing, carjacking, joy riding - general chav day-to-day things :?


It`s not the Forces job to stamp this sort of behaviour out. If you watch the news, you`ll see that Afghanistan and Iraq are still a hive of activity for our Forces. They really are busy.


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## Nath (May 17, 2006)

Wolfsburger said:


> It`s not the Forces job to stamp this sort of behaviour out. If you watch the news, you`ll see that Afghanistan and Iraq are still a hive of activity for our Forces. They really are busy.


Not forgetting they will probably be peacekeeping in Israel soon!!!


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## Wolfsburger (Oct 21, 2002)

Nath said:


> Not forgetting they will probably be peacekeeping in Israel soon!!!


I don`t think even that butt-hole Blair is stupid enough to send them there.........is he?


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## thebears (Jan 14, 2006)

genocidalduck said:


> thebears said:
> 
> 
> > genocidalduck said:
> ...


Gets my vote [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## Lisa. (May 7, 2002)

My 13 year old is in the Army Cadets and he defo gets a rough time. He goes on weekend camps every other month, eats rations and has to sleep on concrete floors. They get them up in the middle of the night to do parade, send them back to sleep and get them up again 30mins later to do hikes through the woods in the rain. They walk miles up hill with full packs on their backs. They get shouted at constantly, the discipline is very strict. I think it's meant to put them off going into the army ( thank god!)

It's a love/hate thing with him he goes to Cadets twice a week for 2 hours. It's taken him 9months to move to the first rank, which he acheived last night.

There are many things he is made to do at cadets ,which he has no choice about, but ask him to empty the dishwasher and he still complains.

Teenagers huh, don't know they're born.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Lisa. said:


> My 13 year old is in the Army Cadets and he defo gets a rough time. He goes on weekend camps every other month, eats rations and has to sleep on concrete floors. They get them up in the middle of the night to do parade, send them back to sleep and get them up again 30mins later to do hikes through the woods in the rain. They walk miles up hill with full packs on their backs. They get shouted at constantly, the discipline is very strict. I think it's meant to put them off going into the army ( thank god!)
> 
> It's a love/hate thing with him he goes to Cadets twice a week for 2 hours. It's taken him 9months to move to the first rank, which he acheived last night.
> 
> ...


Are you sure it's not a borstal that he attends?


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Wolfsburger said:


> Nath said:
> 
> 
> > Not forgetting they will probably be peacekeeping in Israel soon!!!
> ...


It'll be safer than Iraq...


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## fastasflip (May 13, 2003)

I doubt if the regular Army would want a bunch of conscripts turning up. Every British Squaddie is a volenteer thats why we have the Best Army in the World if somewhat depleted these days :?

Take a look at the Americans, Coke snortting trigger happy F**kwits. Fly over toxteth and they get a medal


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## il padrino (Apr 6, 2006)

I'm not an anarchist, tree-hugger, chav or pacifist, but there is no way in the world I would ever want to complete National Service, or join one of the armed forces.

It just isn't for me, I really could not stand being barked at for `x` number of hours per day by some random middle aged bloke who's sole purpose in life would appear to be to make my life a misery. But, more to the point, at any given moment you get sent to the latest warzone of choice on a politicians whim, under some thinly veiled excuse about a "war on terror".

I have a great deal of respect for those in our country and communities that do choose to sign up, and do enjoy their jobs, the cameraderie, and are willing to sacrifice their lives for their perception of `the greater good`, but I just feel that forcing people to do something will never bring the best out of them, and ultimately dilute what is an exceptional group of people who believe in what they are doing.

Each to his/her own.


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## Wolfsburger (Oct 21, 2002)

il padrino said:


> It just isn't for me, I really could not stand being barked at for `x` number of hours per day by some random middle aged bloke who's sole purpose in life would appear to be to make my life a misery.


This is part of the problem, the Army really isn`t like the dross that gets shown on TV such as Bad Lads Army, Soldier Soldier etc etc.


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## Nath (May 17, 2006)

Wolfsburger said:


> This is part of the problem, the Army really isn`t like the dross that gets shown on TV such as Bad Lads Army, Soldier Soldier etc etc.


I agree with Wolfsburger it is completely different from how it is portrayed in these programmes!


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## TTwiggy (Jul 20, 2004)

It's refreshing to see, that as this forum often adopts a standpoint somewhere to the right of Atilla the Hun, that there's little support for this idea.

The military don't want national service, the military can't afford national service, and for every 10 kids it 'straightens out' there will be one who is left permanently affected by it for the worse - and the worse case scenario of this is another Hungerford.

also, I reckon that quite a few of the mods and rockers who rioted in the fifties would have completed national service...


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

I'm not really sure if it's National Service that seems like a good idea or merely a return to 'old-fashioned' values.

The two seem linked, but are possibly not really connected. There were far more other factors at play than just national service. Sene of identity and national pride were still strong. People on the whole had less, so appreciated more.

Those of you that think ASBO kids should be forced into it have obviously never been out in a 'garrison town' - you'd soon change your minds if you had.

Army training is great. Makes young men incredibly fit and ready to fight with numerous weapons or bare-handed. Great in the war arena - not so good in a nightclub in Colchester.

Surely the last thing you want is to take people of an already violent nature and train them to be even more so. I like the idea of it in theory, but the reality is that it probably wouldn't solve a great deal.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

Intelligence testing prior to getting a breeding license, thats the future that is! Dont meet the intelligence requirement levels......spay em.

Imagine how good our society would be in 5 generations!

Mind you, who would empty the bins and cut your hair?

I guess we would invent robots to do it tho.

Hmm yeah lets try that!


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

Kell said:


> Army training is great. Makes young men incredibly fit and ready to fight with numerous weapons or bare-handed. Great in the war arena - not so good in a nightclub in Colchester.
> 
> Surely the last thing you want is to take people of an already violent nature and train them to be even more so. I like the idea of it in theory, but the reality is that it probably wouldn't solve a great deal.


I don't think army training is focused on making people more violent.

The training is focused on getting people to react in disciplined ways under conditions of high stress and danger. Sometimes that reaction has to be an aggressive one, sometimes it does not. The training enforces respect, which becomes second nature over time. That's respect for commanding officers, for each other, and for the self. Respect for rules too.

The training stresses the importance of team over self.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

I don't know when this was abolished in the UK, but in Greece it is still compulsory and this is what happens.

Everybody tries to avoid it. It take 1 to 2 years out of your life doing nothing.

A lot of Greeks have left home because of it. They go to study abroad and never get back as they are wanted for the service. They can get arrested if found. So all the bright brains have left Greece in such a way and then they don't want to go back and get in trouble.

There is a lot more I can say as I know better than any of you here what the national service is really about. Thank God that I have completed my duty and managed to do a 3 hour medical examination and got exempt.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

vlastan said:


> I don't know when this was abolished in the UK, but in Greece it is still compulsory and this is what happens.
> 
> Everybody tries to avoid it. It take 1 to 2 years out of your life doing nothing.
> 
> ...


were u exempt or did u complete ure duty?


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Leg said:


> vlastan said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know when this was abolished in the UK, but in Greece it is still compulsory and this is what happens.
> ...


My duty was to attend the training camp for medical examination and admittance to the navy base. But following some medical examination I was told that I don't need to do a 2 year navy service, was handed a certificate that says that I don't need to serve in the navy or any other force and I am free to carry on my regular life. All legal stuff.

A lot of my friends here in England that haven't completed their military service, they can't even go back home. They are only allowed amnesty during elections.


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