# Handling in the snow and ice



## Macca1969 (Jan 13, 2018)

Hi I'm picking up my brand new, first ever TT sport on Thursday. I've gone for the 1.8 litre petrol. What do you all think about the handling? I'm particularly interested what you think about how it handles in the ice and snow conditions that are coming our way this week.


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## scott65742 (Dec 31, 2017)

It's pretty solid in the snow, would obviously be better with winter tyres but clearly better than a 2 wheel drive car (for those with Quattro) and a lot better than rear wheel drive. I've never found it wanting in the grip department.


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## redfour (Oct 14, 2016)

Macca1969, I've owned my 1.8 TFSI for over a year now and in any icy/snowy conditions it's been fine. Although front wheel drive, it's been a remarkably controlled and a pretty well balanced car. I haven't swapped out for winter tyres either - I just take things a little easier (and have to defrost door seals . While being labeled a 'coupe / sports blah, blah etc', the TT 3S is a surprisingly versatile day-to-day runner, no matter what the conditions.

But... I reckon Quattro brings a whole new element to winter driving - skip to 5.08 mins - 




Good luck with the pick up and I hope you enjoy.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, Drive to the conditions & any car will be fine. Even quattro won't stop any quicker in snow & ice.
Don't damage those new alloys Macca. :lol: :wink: 
What time you collecting her, I might have time to visit Audi Neyland. 
Hoggy.


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## Macca1969 (Jan 13, 2018)

Thanks for the replies. I am by no means a fast driver and tend to be very cautious of others on the road. I certainly dont intend to drive it hard or to the limits. I want to enjoy the car and not hold on for dear life to see what it can do. I'm known as a bit of a slow driver so don't want to change that. Hoggy hi, I'm picking it up from Martin at 10am.


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## carrock (Mar 17, 2011)

Handling in the snow and ice has more to do with tyres.

A 2wd car with winter tyres is far better than a Quattro on summer tyres in snowy or ice conditions

Currently my TTS Quattro has full winter tyres fitted and is simply outstanding in all conditions.

My octavia VRS work car has Michelin cross climates fitted all year round and has good traction year round.

Any car with " summer " tyres fitted is rubbish in the snow, Quattro or not.

Worst possible option is RWD with summer tyres


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Macca1969 said:


> Hoggy hi, I'm picking it up from Martin at 10am.


Hi, I'll try to get there by 1020, otherwise, I'll wait for the photos 8) 
Hoggy.


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## Pugliese (Aug 4, 2010)

Mine is Quattro on summer tyres.

As Hoggy said, drive to the conditions. Drove back from Rye to Hastings last night around 11pm in blizzard conditions and the car temp showing -4C. Gritters had been out but with little effect. Averaged probably 20mph and kept a good 100m from the car in front. A 66 BMW plate in front that I was tracking lost it on a corner at around 18mph, bounced off the opposite curb and did a 180. The TT was fine. There are a couple of steep hills running into Hastings where there were cars pulled over hazards on, as they could not get up. Again the TT sailed up not missing a beat. I also tried some controlled slides by braking excessively, sure it slipped, but a little gentle acceleration and turn into the skid and it corrected like a dream.

So yes winter tyres make a big difference but keep the speed down and even in really treacherous conditions the Quattro performs


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## jhoneyman (Aug 8, 2012)

carrock said:


> A 2wd car with winter tyres is far better than a Quattro on summer tyres in snowy or ice conditions


Have to 100% disagree here


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## Edinburra (Aug 19, 2016)

jhoneyman said:


> carrock said:
> 
> 
> > A 2wd car with winter tyres is far better than a Quattro on summer tyres in snowy or ice conditions
> ...


Could you expand your answer with documented proof, please?


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## jhoneyman (Aug 8, 2012)

Edinburra said:


> jhoneyman said:
> 
> 
> > carrock said:
> ...


What do you want stats and analytical results?
The statement is ridiculous - Many factors affect car performance in snow and ice.
The main factor being the actual vehicle.


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## Omychron (Sep 9, 2016)

jhoneyman said:


> carrock said:
> 
> 
> > A 2wd car with winter tyres is far better than a Quattro on summer tyres in snowy or ice conditions
> ...


Disagree all you want, he's right.

And the main factor is tires, more so than a 4WD system, ESP,... Nothing beats grip.


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## Edinburra (Aug 19, 2016)

What do you want stats and analytical results?
The statement is ridiculous - Many factors affect car performance in snow and ice.
The main factor being the actual vehicle.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Yes, Sats and analytical results will suffice, thank you


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## jhoneyman (Aug 8, 2012)

Edinburra said:


> What do you want stats and analytical results?
> The statement is ridiculous - Many factors affect car performance in snow and ice.
> The main factor being the actual vehicle.


[/quote][/quote]

Yes, Sats and analytical results will suffice, thank you[/quote]

Gathering that now


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## ChadW (May 2, 2003)

Also it helps to ensure the drive select has Quattro in auto mode, mine was in dynamic at the start of the winter and sure it made a difference to rear traction. Put it into Auto and since it feels more sure footed like my older TTs.

Btw my old Mk2 V6 was fantastic in the snow for traction cause it was a lot heavier I guess.


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## Pugliese (Aug 4, 2010)

ChadW said:


> Also it helps to ensure the drive select has Quattro in auto mode, mine was in dynamic at the start of the winter and sure it made a difference to rear traction. Put it into Auto and since it feels more sure footed like my older TTs.
> 
> .


Interesting, last night I had it in Dynamic to make sure you got the max distribution of 50% to the rear, but now thinking about it, auto would do the same if needed, but with 60% of the car's weight over the front, it makes more sense to have a bit more drive to the front that auto mode should achieve


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## ChadW (May 2, 2003)

Pugliese said:


> ChadW said:
> 
> 
> > Also it helps to ensure the drive select has Quattro in auto mode, mine was in dynamic at the start of the winter and sure it made a difference to rear traction. Put it into Auto and since it feels more sure footed like my older TTs.
> ...


Yep it would kick out at the back more just like my old crappy BMW 320d did. Was quite gutted with it then realised it might be worth changing the drive select settings.


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## forthay (Feb 23, 2014)

I thought the general rule was Quattro helps you get going and winter tyres help stopping but regardless either must be beneficial. TT certainly managed to get the wife safely to work this morning in treacherous conditions (unfortunately she didn't have the option of a duvet day).


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## antmanbTT (Jan 8, 2018)

I've had the mk2 TT 2.0 TFSI in 2010 fwd and now have the mk3 TTS Quattro. Both with "normal" non winter tyres.

The TTS is performing much better in the snow and ice than the standard TT did. There's a patch on the road outside my house that goes like an ice rink in this weather and the TT never managed well over it - ABS going mad, little grip with the tyres. I've not even noticed it with the TTS .

Similarly my driveway is on a slight incline and the TT used to struggle to get up especially if I was driving over old compacted tracts. The TTS again has no issues whatsoever so far.

Quattro for the win.


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## ross_t_boss (Feb 28, 2017)

ChadW said:


> Yep it would kick out at the back more just like my old crappy BMW 320d did.


Keep Dynamic mode for empty roundabouts and car parks then 

That's interesting to note, these extreme conditions are always good to suss out how the electronics "work". If the back is kicking out, what is TCS (not) doing? Or is ESP in Sport for Dynamic?

Re: winter tyres 2WD vs Summer AWD... AWD summer will have a small advantage in a very limited set of scenario's (e.g. drive axle is stuck!); and may be more stable on rutted roads or icy patches holding constant speed (avoids situations where only 1 tyre is putting power down). All summers are not made equal, whatever's on my wife's Golf R is surprisingly good in cold and icy conditions compared to the MPSS on my TTRS.

But for the most part 2WD + winters is hands down the better option. With significantly higher coefficient of grip available, you'll stop and turn much quicker, less prone to get stuck on gradients. Most of the avoiding action' scenarios require these attributes. Generally the car is more sure footed as you won't be spending so much time hitting limits of grip. That's physics, doesn't need proving.

Of course the holy grail is AWD + Winters, ground clearance becomes a problem though when it gets a bit deep!


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## ChadW (May 2, 2003)

ross_t_boss said:


> ChadW said:
> 
> 
> > Yep it would kick out at the back more just like my old crappy BMW 320d did.
> ...


Haha yep it was only doing it when starting off at some lights on slope on an untreated road btw not whilst driving.


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## Edinburra (Aug 19, 2016)

Of course the holy grail is AWD + Winters, ground clearance becomes a problem though when it gets a bit deep![/quote]

Wholly agree, best combination.


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## Gren (Jul 25, 2002)

ChadW said:


> Yep it would kick out at the back more just like my old crappy BMW 320d did. Was quite gutted with it then realised it might be worth changing the drive select settings.


Mine did that this morning when exiting a roundabout. Luckily doing around 15 mph. Fronts lost a bit of grip, torque to the back....oops. Probably only stepped out a foot or so but felt like miles.

Never thought of taking it out of dynamic!


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## Pugliese (Aug 4, 2010)

Gren said:


> ChadW said:
> 
> 
> > Yep it would kick out at the back more just like my old crappy BMW 320d did. Was quite gutted with it then realised it might be worth changing the drive select settings.
> ...


This therefore begs the question, that even with 'spirited' driving in the dry, is it not better on most occasions to have the quattro system set to auto rather than dynamic?


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## Mr TTS (Dec 23, 2017)

jhoneyman said:


> carrock said:
> 
> 
> > A 2wd car with winter tyres is far better than a Quattro on summer tyres in snowy or ice conditions
> ...


A FWD with winters tyres will beast an AWD with summers. I see guys in the big 4x4s driving like cocks as soon as the snows comes out. Blasting along in the snow covered outside lane on the motorway etc. As soon as something unexpected comes along they are headed for a world of pain.

Ive been driving my wife Golf GTD with winters on for the last few days. This thing is unstoppable, the more snow there is the more grip it has. Last night I went up a hill that nobody else could get up. There were loads of cars abandoned at the bottom including range rovers etc. The Golf wheels slipped a bit but pretty much just went straight up, probably to the shock of people watching.

Winters also have a degree of grip on ice. My road gets icy all the time. Really bad like an ice rink. The car will find grip even when its almost impossible to walk on. I dont know how they do it, its like witchcraft.

A TT with quattro is a decent winter steer, even on summer tyres but its not even close to any car wearing proper winter rubber.


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## Number86 (Oct 20, 2017)

They mostly have a much softer rubber compound and sidewalls. Not so great for ultimate high speed grip, but great in freezing conditions. Think how rubber reacts if you chuck it in your freezer. It loses a lot of its flexible properties.


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## Pugliese (Aug 4, 2010)

Number86 said:


> They mostly have a much softer rubber compound and sidewalls. Not so great for ultimate high speed grip, but great in freezing conditions. Think how rubber reacts if you chuck it in your freezer. It loses a lot of its flexible properties.


Very true. This morning the tyre temp on the fronts was -5C and normally by the time I get to work in 10mins they are up to 20C. This morning they only made it to 5C


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## Omychron (Sep 9, 2016)

Mr TTS said:


> A FWD with winters tyres will beast an AWD with summers. I see guys in the big 4x4s driving like cocks as soon as the snows comes out. Blasting along in the snow covered outside lane on the motorway etc. As soon as something unexpected comes along they are headed for a world of pain.
> 
> Ive been driving my wife Golf GTD with winters on for the last few days. This thing is unstoppable, the more snow there is the more grip it has. Last night I went up a hill that nobody else could get up. There were loads of cars abandoned at the bottom including range rovers etc. The Golf wheels slipped a bit but pretty much just went straight up, probably to the shock of people watching.
> 
> ...


Agreed!
Funny how many people will hail 4WD as if snow is now no longer a factor! Same thing goes for "modern intelligent traction control" or "a well balanced chassis".
None of those things matter if you're driving frozen solid summer tires. :roll:


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## psglas (Dec 16, 2016)

This provides some good evidence. It's all about the tyres.


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## archieatkins (Dec 9, 2017)

I have been thinking about fitting winter tyre's to mine, does anyone else do this? if so do you have spare alloys in your garage and replace the whole wheel or just the tyre's fitted to your normal wheels?


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## ChadW (May 2, 2003)

psglas said:


> This provides some good evidence. It's all about the tyres.


Yep quattro or not I had to take it really steady this morning on some untreated roads. Low profile Bridgestone summer tyres were not great.


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## GoodThunder (Jul 19, 2016)

Mr TTS said:


> Ive been driving my wife Golf GTD with winters on for the last few days. This thing is unstoppable


 Are you sure those were winter ones? :lol:


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## forthay (Feb 23, 2014)

archieatkins said:


> I have been thinking about fitting winter tyre's to mine, does anyone else do this? if so do you have spare alloys in your garage and replace the whole wheel or just the tyre's fitted to your normal wheels?


Yup, done it since my Mark II days. In fact it's the same alloys and tyres from the mark II.

In the summer I run with 20" alloys + summers tyres. In the winter it's down to 18" alloys and winter tyres.

I keep whatever isn't on the car in the garage.

I used to just change the tyres but some said it could ruin them. How, I don't know.

18" alloys are genuine Audi and purchased off ebay.


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## AngelaT (Feb 10, 2018)

Very interesting to hear everyone's thoughts. This is my second TT Quattro and probably my last  Before then I drove a Range Rover Sport. I took great delight yesterday morning when my neighbour that laughs at me in my TT came down in his Range Rover slipped at the corner. Thought he took the corner a bit to fast just missed the drystone **** . Me in my little TT was ok , well until I came to the big drift across the road . Just took it slow so all was ok. Will be glad when the snow does go away though. 
Angela


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

It's All wheel DRIVE, both types have four wheel breaking... so unless you are trying to get to 60 faster in the snow :roll: 
Difference will be when you lose traction on the front.


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## Mark Pred (Feb 1, 2017)

Omychron said:


> jhoneyman said:
> 
> 
> > carrock said:
> ...


Yes, he is right. I parked up my TTS on Friday after nipping out at lunch time and nearly binning it during a blizzard. Traction is OK and grip better than most cars, but even the Quattro isn't going to give you bags of grip on summer tyres. So rather than drive 50 miles at 25mph, I took one of the work's vans for the drive home. All our vans and trucks are fitted with winter tyres and the level of grip on snow, ice and very cold (wet) roads is night and day better than my TTS on summer rubber. Fact.

Must say, it was great fun passing all sorts of 4x4's that were struggling in the snow on Friday. Little did they know :lol:


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## BlueMagic (Feb 14, 2015)

My TTRS had fairly good traction in the snow but stopping was another issue altogether. Summer tyres are shit in the snow, no matter how many wheels are driven, summer tyres won't touch winters in the snow or even come close.


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## tt3600 (Apr 8, 2006)

I have Bridgestones S001.

Hard acceleration on the RS had me fish tailing and braking is scarily poor in the cold weather (had to brake hard due to someone switching lanes to left when indicating right ABS working overtime!).

Wet traction is surprisingly poor as well under hard acceleration in first.

I'm surprised that wet transaction was so much better on my MK2 RS.

I'm blaming this all on the tyres.

I know they are summer tires BUT these appear much worse for me than the last generation RE50, which l was satisfied with.


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## psglas (Dec 16, 2016)

One other thing about snow and ice handling. The TT has the haldex 4WD system which is arguable inferior to the torsen diff on the RS4 and other larger Audi's. You really need 4wd, winter tyres and a haldex diff.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/wvmekv7/


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