# quattro in the snow?



## toonmal (Aug 17, 2010)

well, we've been zapped with the snow today..my present car has 18"ers, and after last winter, found it wasn't too keen on the snow!!
Getting 19"ers on my new car, so i know it will be worse. However, I've ordered the quattro..do you quattro owners find that the 4wd helps or not..will be interested with your comments ...


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## conneem (Nov 4, 2006)

Tyres are a huge help


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## BLinky (Jul 3, 2009)

4wd = 2X 2wd

4wd on summer rubber 70X worst than 2wd on snow rubber

4wd on snow rubber = 2X 2wd on snow rubber.


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## DarthTTs (Oct 5, 2010)

BLinky said:


> 4wd = 2X 2wd
> 
> 4wd on summer rubber 70X worst than 2wd on snow rubber
> 
> 4wd on snow rubber = 2X 2wd on snow rubber.


I don't get your math!


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## BLinky (Jul 3, 2009)

basically you can think of quattro as having twice the grip most of the time as non quattro.

However on snow 2wd with snow tires fitted to the drive wheels will still be far superior to quattro fitted summer tires.


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## mikef4uk (Jan 15, 2006)

My TTS was exceptional last winter both with acceleration and slowing down due to all 4 wheels slowing down with engine braking and it was on 19's

Funniest thing I did was I start work at 07:00 so the roads are quiet, one snowy/icey morning I gave it the full launch control from the lights, we had all kinds of flashing traction lights and popping/banging from the exhaust, but forward motion was very impressive, at a guess the 0-60 time ws probably up by around 2 secs...........that's all!!!


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## BLinky (Jul 3, 2009)

I start work at 5, and unfortunately some other people do too, I can't for the life of me understand why they feel the need to drive at 10% speed sitting in the middle of both lanes and would not pull over to let normal human beings past.


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## wallstreet (Oct 19, 2009)

1. Use search read the topics relating to Winter Tyres 
2. Use YouTube watch winter vs summer vs all season tyres
3. Make up your mind

Without good tyres or temp correct tyres you stopping distances change. Quattro is great and better than 2wd & rwd, but best with winter rubber.


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## wallstreet (Oct 19, 2009)

mikef4uk said:


> My TTS was exceptional last winter both with acceleration and slowing down due to all 4 wheels slowing down with engine braking and it was on 19's
> 
> Funniest thing I did was I start work at 07:00 so the roads are quiet, one snowy/icey morning I gave it the full launch control from the lights, we had all kinds of flashing traction lights and popping/banging from the exhaust, but forward motion was very impressive, at a guess the 0-60 time ws probably up by around 2 secs...........that's all!!!


When it's safe switch it off see what happens!


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

Basically if there is no grip on the road surface for a 2WD car there is no grip for a 4WD car. You only get more grip by having better (winter or all-season) rubber. Winter tyres improve acelleration, cornering and braking. Apart from the cost, there really is no downside to fitting winter tyres when it's cold.


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## mikef4uk (Jan 15, 2006)

wja96 said:


> Basically if there is no grip on the road surface for a 2WD car there is no grip for a 4WD car. You only get more grip by having better (winter or all-season) rubber. Winter tyres improve acelleration, cornering and braking. Apart from the cost, there really is no downside to fitting winter tyres when it's cold.


That's interesting, my road is uphill, the only car from our close that got to the top of the hill (and quite easily) was mine, my neighbours could'nt get their cars out for about 5 days


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

very true

I had a mk1 TT and was the only person to get off my road v the 2wd cars.

So ofcourse there is more grip with 4WD,

more drive out of slipppy corners also.

it's the stopping which is an issue if it's icy.


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## talk-torque (Apr 30, 2008)

mrdemon said:


> very true
> 
> I had a mk1 TT and was the only person to get off my road v the 2wd cars.
> 
> ...


Plus, as you are always telling us, the other factor, (besides 2/4 wheel drive and tyres) the driver. A lot of idiots don't seem to realise the need for touchy-feely throttle and brakes when there is a lack of grip.

EVO put a big Jag on winter tyres against an Evo Mitsi on summer tyres and the Jag was vastly superior, especially when braking. http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/24852 ... ested.html


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## wallstreet (Oct 19, 2009)

mrdemon said:


> very true
> 
> I had a mk1 TT and was the only person to get off my road v the 2wd cars.
> 
> ...


Not with winter tyres.

I even went on a snow & ice course, fun & learnt about the safety issues. It's not Siberian here but a simple use of the 7C rule.

Last year a few TT guys on here had ice based accidents. Which is why they are switching to winters. The cost is one off. For the alloys, but for me they last longer oddly than summer tyres.


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

mikef4uk said:


> That's interesting, my road is uphill, the only car from our close that got to the top of the hill (and quite easily) was mine, my neighbours could'nt get their cars out for about 5 days


Did you attempt to drive any of their cars as well though? What you are saying is that you were able to find grip, so it must have been there.


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## conneem (Nov 4, 2006)

I think some people are mixing up grip vs traction.

4wd will definitely give you more traction but once you get going there will be little difference in stopping distance and turning ability between 4wd and 2wd with the same rubber.

2wd with winter rubber is supprisingly good at getting going in snow/ice due to thta fact it has the engine over the driven wheels and can therefore get good traction.


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

I part ex my TTmk1 for a BMW the same time it was bad, I could not get the BMW off my drive 2mm snow. [smiley=argue.gif]

grip/traction it's all the same to me, means you can either use your car or in the case of owning a BMW not being able to use it.

As I stated stopping is the issue.

But the 4WD also helps you in the bends v 2wd becasue the Haldex will find you grip on some of the wheels :-0.

Of cousre snow tyres are going to be great in the Snow lol.

But I live in the middle of the UK and we have never seen bad snow, it's blue skys and sunny here :wink: 
last year again we had little or no snow.

So it depends where you live v the cost of snow tyres and another set of wheels.
Again if it's to bad I stay in, but that has never happened, I am always shocked what I see on the news and some times wish we got snow here


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## davida-p (Apr 13, 2010)

I live down on the south coast and Feb we had a quite a lot of snow. I would like to add how well my 2.0 fwd handled in the white stuff...but I can't. Infact I nearly crashed it twice and got stuck on the m23 for 6 hours during one night. The only positive thing I can say about the 2.0 fwd, is that the temperature in the cabin was a constant 20 deg and my feet were well toastie. The radio was a comfort telling me not to venture out and my one chocolate bar did manage to go the distance. For extra comfort I had the mrs with me whom I had to shield in front of the car while she did No1's. Quick tip there, try not to eat yellow snow.
I got the car back in one piece and vowed to get a quattro as my next one. I didn't but at least it blends in with the snow now.


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## talk-torque (Apr 30, 2008)

^^ LOL :lol: Nice tale!


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## mikef4uk (Jan 15, 2006)

wja96 said:


> mikef4uk said:
> 
> 
> > That's interesting, my road is uphill, the only car from our close that got to the top of the hill (and quite easily) was mine, my neighbours could'nt get their cars out for about 5 days
> ...


No they think i'm a car theif :lol: :lol:

I also have a Golf mk5 GT TDI, I could'nt get that off my path never mind up the hill 

My son's still managed the hill though, but there again they do own an EVO and a scooby, i'm thinking there is a common denominator here :?


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## mikef4uk (Jan 15, 2006)

conneem said:


> 4wd will definitely give you more traction but once you get going there will be little difference in stopping distance and turning ability between 4wd and 2wd with the same rubber.


I would disagree with this point as well, with front or rear wheel drive only the engine brake is also only applied to those two wheels, RWD will have the arse end fish tailing all over the place every time you lift off the accelerator
FWD can also be a pain but one of the amazing things I found out with the quattro about 10 years ago was just how damm stable it is when using just the engine braking, I agree that once you start using the brakes properly in those conditions 4WD will stop in around the same time as 2WD


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Fine in theory but haldex isn't permanent 4 wheel drive, simply at best you have twice as much grip as a 2wd car but 2x0=0


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## Survey S2000 (Jul 28, 2009)

Driving in the snow is not about how much traction you can get exiting a corner. Unless your ice racing. And then your only going to crash at a higher speed. :lol:

Grip going round the corner is the more important. The only way i can think to improve that is winter tyres or a boot full of sand.

Its also worth considering driving ability, ie. being smooth and controled the level of input to the tires.

4WD has engine breaking and friction from the drive train. This may improve the off throttle stablilty.

4WD will however improve traction which allows the car to pull off better from a stand still(very useful) and acceralating once rolling(not that good in the snow as you dont want to drive fast away).


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

Quattro will improve traction when accelerating (and the 4. gen Haldex works very good here), but will not improve your braking abilities in the same way. The only thing that will improve your means of stopping when you have to (traction when braking) is the correct type of tires (= winter tires).

Quattro wil in worst cases only help you to get even more stuck or chrash at higher speeds, if used without understanding that you stopping abilities is no better than if you had a 2wd car.... :wink:


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## conneem (Nov 4, 2006)

mrdemon said:


> I part ex my TTmk1 for a BMW the same time it was bad, I could not get the BMW off my drive 2mm snow. [smiley=argue.gif]
> 
> grip/traction it's all the same to me, means you can either use your car or in the case of owning a BMW not being able to use it.
> 
> ...


Grip and traction are different. The BMW was no good because the rear wheels could not get traction because of little weight on the rear and presumably summer tyres.

Winter tyres are not only for snow. The rubber compund in summer tyres starts to harden and freeze below 7oC and that is where winter rubber overtakes them in performance. But over 7oC their performance deteriorates very quickly 

Also I have read that the Haldex disengages the clutch to the rear when braking or when the accelerator is released. I'm not sure if this has been changed on the Gen IV but on previous Gen's you needed an aftermarket controller in race mode to get the rear wheels to engine brake


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## mikef4uk (Jan 15, 2006)

Obviously from the replies here Audi have made a major f*&k up over the years with their ''quattro'' it sounds as if we have all wasted our well earned money and would be better off with a 2WD car.

I'll remember that the next time I am in the market for a new car [smiley=book2.gif]


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

mikef4uk said:


> Obviously from the replies here Audi have made a major f*&k up over the years with their ''quattro'' it sounds as if we have all wasted our well earned money and would be better off with a 2WD car.
> 
> I'll remember that the next time I am in the market for a new car [smiley=book2.gif]


If you drive with your head and learn how to use a quattro properly, it is way better than a 2wd in the snow regarding getting where you need to in a safe way :wink:

I love driving past 2wd cars that are stuck in the snow - but I also laugh of the 4wd cars that I pass when they have ended up in the ditch after going too fast :wink:


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## Survey S2000 (Jul 28, 2009)

mikef4uk said:


> Obviously from the replies here Audi have made a major f*&k up over the years with their ''quattro'' it sounds as if we have all wasted our well earned money and would be better off with a 2WD car.
> 
> I'll remember that the next time I am in the market for a new car [smiley=book2.gif]


You cant break the rules of physics. I dont think Audi believe that either.

Wait until is nice and damp out there and get early on the gas out of corners.... thats what quatto is about. :lol: :lol:


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

The difference in snow ,between 2WD and 4WD will be minimal with Summer tyres.
With Winter tyres fitted, it is more complicated, as a lot depends on the 4WD system and electronic aids that are fitted.
A 2WD fitted with winter tyres will run rings around a 4WD with Summer tyres any day.
I can remember looking at the times in the wet between the TT,TTS and TT RS in Sportauto,the standard 2WD TT is by far the fastest, which is quite surprising.
If it's icy, or there's loads of snow, just stay at home if you have Summer tyres fitted.


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## nvc (May 1, 2010)

do not brake too hard on ice for your guys on winter tyres. and watch out for cab behind.

( my experience from last year, got hit from hehind, lucky no damage)


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## mikef4uk (Jan 15, 2006)

jaybyme said:


> The difference in snow ,between 2WD and 4WD will be minimal with Summer tyres.


Thats absolutely correct, Audi have got it all wrong with their 'quattro' phylosophy, it's obviously little more than an expensive marketing ploy and has no advantages full stop and by the replies here many disadvantages over good ole' 2WD, next time, no, make that 'if' I ever get stuck in the snow this year I will flag a normal 2WD car down and see if he will tow my expensive POS 'quattro' out of trouble :roll: :roll:


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## wallstreet (Oct 19, 2009)

mikef4uk said:


> jaybyme said:
> 
> 
> > The difference in snow ,between 2WD and 4WD will be minimal with Summer tyres.
> ...


LMAO :twisted:


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## jamiekip (Nov 12, 2006)

What a load of bolloxs this thread is!

Quattro on summer rubber will give you more traction to get going. So you won't be the one stuck causing a tail back causing all the other people with 2wd to get stuck and then shower you with snow balls!
It will not however help you stop any better.
This thread implies to me that people expect 4wd to perform miracles in winter. It's only benefit is maintaining forward motion and it manages that very well. It actually saved my bacon a few years ago driving up to Tignes in the mother of all snow dumps. Coaches going to the resorts, hire cars etc were all getting stuck. My faithful S3 (haldex gen 2) managed to get me through the carnage and deliver me safely. If however I'd had to turn round and head back down I'd have become very worried!!!

Bottom line is, the summer rubber we have here is not suitable for winter.
If you have to go out in it Quattro will get you going... But when it comes to a corner or stopping Quattro will not help and you need to treat the conditions with the same respect as you would in any other car!


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## steeve (Jul 8, 2010)

You might be able to get going, and keep going with 4WD, but cornering and braking are just the same for evrybody with normal tyres.


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

jamiekip said:


> What a load of bolloxs this thread is!
> 
> Quattro on summer rubber will give you more traction to get going. So you won't be the one stuck causing a tail back causing all the other people with 2wd to get stuck and then shower you with snow balls!
> It will not however help you stop any better.
> ...


Jamie talks sense.

Im surprised at the amount of people who cannot figure out simple physics, 4wd only helps going forward.

now go fit some winter tyres, or leave the TT at home!


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## toonmal (Aug 17, 2010)

This has been interesting  However, I live in rural Northumberland, and after the snow we've had the past couple of days, I don't think I'll be able to find my car, never mind drive it :lol: :lol:


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

I start at 5 next week so I'll let you know :wink:


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## wallstreet (Oct 19, 2009)

You boys enjoying the fluffy stuff??

25 November 2010 Last updated at 18:12 GMT Share this pageFacebookTwitterShareEmailPrint
Heavy early snow grips parts of UK amid fresh warnings

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The earliest widespread snowfall for 17 years has gripped many parts of the UK.

Up to 15cm (6in) settled in northern Scotland and north-east England, with icy roads making driving hazardous.

The Met Office issued heavy snow warnings for large parts of Scotland and parts of north-east and eastern England, Wales, Yorkshire and Humber, and the East Midlands.

Forecasters said the cold spell could last a fortnight, with snow reaching England's southern counties next week.

Temperatures are expected to drop to -5C in some areas over the next few days, far lower than those normally experienced in November.

It is unlikely to rise much above 2C-5C by day, remaining lower in the more exposed, rural areas.

Breakdown surge
Northern and eastern parts of the UK are expected to bear the brunt of the wintry conditions.

Chris Fawkes, from the BBC Weather Centre, said 5-13cm (2-5in) of snow were expected in low-lying areas later, but places like the North York Moors, which were particularly exposed to the north-east wind, could see falls of up to 20cm.

"Winter has arrived early this year," he said. "This cold snap is probably going to last the best part of a fortnight."

He said many central parts of the UK would be dry and sunny by day, but cold and icy by night, and snow was likely to hit southern counties of England next week.

Chris Millns sent in this picture of Castleton in Derbyshire
Some 15cm (6in) of snow fell overnight in Aberdeenshire, 12cm (5in) in the Scottish Borders and 10cm (4in) in Durham. Problems with snow and ice were also reported in Northern Ireland, Wales and south-west England.

Motorists were urged to exercise caution on the roads as temperatures plunged.

The AA reported a surge in breakdowns and said people should be particularly wary of treacherous black ice on Thursday evening.

The rescue service said there had been 9,100 call-outs by 1500 GMT, and it expected that figure to rise to 14,000 by the end of the day.

Spokesman Gavin Hill-Smith said call-outs were up around 50% compared to average November levels, with some 1,000 an hour. Parts of Tyneside and Yorkshire were even higher, he added.

"Black ice is far more treacherous than snow, people have to keep speeds right down this evening, particularly if travelling in more rural areas," he said.

Rock salt sales
He advised people to stick to main roads wherever possible, and to override their sat-navs when necessary.

Some councils have already said they would not be gritting as many roads this year to save money.

But Councillor Richard Kemp, from the Local Government Association, said: "We've got more [grit] in stock at the moment than we've ever had before. We've got more on order. It is now a question of when we can get those orders through."

Local authorities were criticised last year for running short of salt stocks for treating the roads
Across Scotland, the worst affected areas are Grampian, East Lothian and the Borders, with the snow forecast to spread to the rest of the country by the weekend. More than 120 schools were affected in Aberdeenshire.

Grampian Police say road conditions throughout the region are treacherous and are urging motorists not to travel unless it is absolutely necessary.

Police said all roads in the Grampian region had snow and ice, and closed roads included the B974, the A939 at the Lecht ski centre, the A93 at Cairnwell, and the B976 Crathie to Gairnside.

Aberdeenshire Council said gritters, snowploughs and diggers have been out clearing the roads.

The BBC's James Cook, in Aberdeenshire, said the Scottish government had been stockpiling grit to avoid last year's problems when supplies ran out.

North Yorkshire woke up to a blanket of snow on Thursday morning, and 10 schools in the county have closed.

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A spokesman for North Yorkshire County Council said all major roads were open, including the A169 Pickering to Whitby road, which had been badly affected.

The A170 at Sutton Bank was particularly affected by snow, as was the B1249 at Staxton Bank near Scarborough, and the A165 Reighton bypass was partially blocked.

In Cornwall, lorries and coaches have been getting stuck on some roads, with accidents and delays reported on the A30.

Highways staff have been pre-treating 25 roads across the county with salt ahead of more snow and ice forecast for the next few days.

The highest parts of County Durham and Northumberland have seen 15cm (6in) of snow, and there have been reports of accidents and smaller roads not being gritted.

A car overturned on the A1 southbound in Gateshead, and in County Durham one lane of the A1 northbound was blocked between Carrville and Chester-le-Street because of a jack-knifed lorry.

Nearly 40 schools across north-east England have closed as well as a handful in rural parts of north Yorkshire.

The wintry weather forced Durham Tees Valley airport to close for part of the morning, but by 1300 GMT it had reopened.

Rail services have been unaffected, the Association of Train Operating Companies said.

The prospect of continued snow has sparked a surge in rock salt sales of 1,600%, according to DIY chain B&Q.

Wellington boots were also flying off the shelves, it said.

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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Blizzard here again at least another 3-4 inches have come down tonight


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

jamiekip said:


> What a load of bolloxs this thread is!
> 
> Quattro on summer rubber will give you more traction to get going. So you won't be the one stuck causing a tail back causing all the other people with 2wd to get stuck and then shower you with snow balls!
> It will not however help you stop any better.
> ...


Very well said :wink:


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## BLinky (Jul 3, 2009)

1st review of Snow in N.Yorkshire tonight. 2 inches in the 1st hour.

235/35/19 Vredestein Wintrac xtreme.

on FRESH!! SOFT!!! SNOW!! it's like driving on sand. cornering is fine, slowing down is fine. (Checked using 2 lane roundabouts).

Emergency braking method: 60mph (yes I was confident enough to drive @ normal speeds mostly) skillessly slamming on the stop pedal - skid skid skid skid ABS kick back. skid more skid more skid skid, light a ***, skid skid. but still mildly steerable.

Emergency braking method: 60mph, same road though now with the tracks I just made  . firm and gentle on the brakes pressure as needed. skid skid ABS stop.

acceleration: DSG launch control full power: spin, turbo pop, spin ESP crying, back drift out of line, cry.
acceleration: Non launch control full power: spin, spin spin, this is hopeless, kill self.
acceleration: Non launch control gradual power: spin, spin, speeding up.... spin, 3rd... 60mph.

Hill start, 10% hill. no problem.

hope that helps.

P.S. great tips, just assume there's no room for braking if you're taking a bend, always make sure to down the speed enough before you enter.


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## dbm (Apr 17, 2008)

jaybyme said:


> The difference in snow ,between 2WD and 4WD will be minimal with Summer tyres.


Er, no. 4wd is vastly better than RWD, though FWD and skinny tires can give you a run for your money.

I've never gotten stuck in a quattro, where as my wife's Leon got stuck last year in the snow.

Cheers,
Dan


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## sixdoublesix (Nov 3, 2009)

Agree that some posts are utter crap and in my MK1 TT it never had problems in the snow and turning up at work when everyone else couldn't. If you think the Quattro won't or don't do anything then I find that strange that you can't feel what's happening around your car as you drive it, ESP, TC etc are good on 2wd and quattro but it's the getting away bit and there's more wheels working so more traction and that's where quattro makes a difference. Driving around is something different. You can climb a mountain with just 2 arms but if you use both your legs and arms together you go quicker, more grip and safer! (ancient Chinese proverb)

Here's a good video that's snow related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-hHWSQh ... ata_player

The only wonder I have is now I have the DSG, how good is it in snow? or is it best to do the usual and stick it in manual?

Now im not saying go fast in the snow but you often find it's the slow drivers that cause the accidents (...aaaaand one can of worms emptied into the thread)


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

4WD with Summer tyres might help you get moving in light snow, compared to F2WD, so like I said a minimal difference
Just fit Winter tyres,then F2wd or 4WD you won't have any problems.


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## mikef4uk (Jan 15, 2006)

sixdoublesix said:


> Agree that some posts are utter crap and in my MK1 TT it never had problems in the snow and turning up at work when everyone else couldn't. If you think the Quattro won't or don't do anything then I find that strange that you can't feel what's happening around your car as you drive it, ESP, TC etc are good on 2wd and quattro but it's the getting away bit and there's more wheels working so more traction and that's where quattro makes a difference. Driving around is something different. You can climb a mountain with just 2 arms but if you use both your legs and arms together you go quicker, more grip and safer! (ancient Chinese proverb)
> 
> Here's a good video that's snow related
> 
> ...


DSG is ok in the snow, I was the only person to get out of our road and one of the few into work last year.

I agree with some of the other views here, quattro certainly wont help the steering, or will it? after all it certainly has the ability to direct some of the power away from the fronts.............

But slowing down using just the engine braking I found it much more composed than a 2WD car, I am aware that it can disengage once the brakes are applied and steering input must have a similar effect,

My son has a Golf mk2 that we built between us, TT engine and 6 speed quattro box plus rear haldex conversion to a syncro rear suspension system, it runs around 300hp
The Haldex is controlled electronically via a unit that locks the haldex in % to 100% in 10% steps giving a 50% split of power between the front and rear, this is what he uses at Santa Pod to get the car off the line switching the car back into 2WD once it gets to 80/90mph, but leave it locked and anything over about 90 degrees of steering wheel input results in the car stopping dead and jacking a corner up in the air as front and rear turning circles fight against each other............


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

of course 4WD helps in the corners the ESP will find a wheel which has traction.


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## wallstreet (Oct 19, 2009)

BLinky said:


> 1st review of Snow in N.Yorkshire tonight. 2 inches in the 1st hour.
> 
> 235/35/19 Vredestein Wintrac xtreme.
> 
> ...


Remember if you emergency Stop don't be afraid to Kick Hard down something the ice & snow training I did a year ago taught. Steer only slightly as you find you will move a lot.

Enjoy!

It's a winter wonderland here, last night it was -5. It will get warmer after two days to 2/3C!


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

last night it was -5

it was here also.


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## wallstreet (Oct 19, 2009)

mrdemon said:


> last night it was -5
> 
> it was here also.


MrD I saw your TT on YouTube vs TTShop, I think a winter snow version would be great to teach control. I learnt a lot on avoiding objects, like the trainers foot. He was mad & asked us to drive as close to it through an ice turn!! I never lost grip once!

A few years ago the course was cancelled as a driver actually rammed the guys foot!


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## Spooks (Jul 24, 2010)

When I spotted the snow out of the window this morning I was out first thing to see how the Quattro performed. I had a FWD Mk2 last year it was hopeless. I had to use the wife's Mini (that was hopeless as well). Anyway I found the steepest snow covered hill on the Lincoln Alps, it went straight up no problem. So I stopped on it I thought this will stuff it, but no it pulled away without any fuss. So the £18.000 it cost to change was worth it. 
Different story on the way down though ABS ESP what ever! virtually no engine braking good job Jethro wasn't out in his Tractor, it took forever to stop. It was incredibly slippy though the sheep were having trouble standing up, didn't try it myself I was in my PJ's.  
It says in the handbook to turn off the ESP in deep snow,  what difference will the depth make? unless you are pushing it along with the front. Whether you are riding over the top or the tyres have cut through to the road surface or the ice. Slippy is slippy so why turn off the ESP? 
Anyway the important fact is it works for me, far better than the FWD. The only problem it could be death by over confidence you have to keep reminding yourself of the physics thing.

Has anyone got any used winter wheels and tyres for sale?


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## dbm (Apr 17, 2008)

Spooks said:


> It says in the handbook to turn off the ESP in deep snow,  what difference will the depth make? unless you are pushing it along with the front. Whether you are riding over the top or the tyres have cut through to the road surface or the ice. Slippy is slippy so why turn off the ESP?


The best way to stop in deep snow is to 'plow' - the snow build up in front of your tires and stops you. To do this the wheel needs to be stopped (I.e. not revolving) where as ABS tries to keep your wheels turning.

Cheers,
Dan


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

Spooks - if the snow is so deep or it is so slippery that you strugle to take of (even with quattro), it might help to turn off the ESP/ASR. But when you get going I would absolutely turn the ESP on again :wink:


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## BLinky (Jul 3, 2009)

comes back on at 40 doesn't it?


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

BLinky said:


> comes back on at 40 doesn't it?


Only if you just have turned off the ASR. If you turn off the ESP as well (hold the ESP/ASR button inn for some 3-5 sec), it will stay off.


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## 12snowy (Dec 4, 2009)

conneem said:


> Tyres are a huge help


Fantastic review of Winter v All Season and Summer tyres.


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## Matchu (Jul 19, 2009)

As Jamie has said really...

Quattro helps for getting going...but you need Winter tyres to really help you stop!

Last year with summer tyres my car easily outperformed most cars on the road in there ability to get going etc...but for braking it was just as bad as everyone else and I nearly had a few accidents and frankly considered myself lucky...

This year I am having winter tyres, as frankly it will be safer and the only downside is cost. My winter tyres (Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3's) are being fitted on Monday.


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## Spooks (Jul 24, 2010)

Arne said:


> Spooks - if the snow is so deep or it is so slippery that you strugle to take of (even with quattro), it might help to turn off the ESP/ASR. But when you get going I would absolutely turn the ESP on again :wink:


Thanks for that will do.


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## Spooks (Jul 24, 2010)

Matchu said:


> As Jamie has said really...
> 
> Quattro helps for getting going...but you need Winter tyres to really help you stop!
> 
> ...


Hope you don't mind me asking, how much are the winter tyres costing with the usual fitting and balancing charge. What are they going to charge you to put the summer tyres back on? I just know if I had them fitted that would be the last snow this area would see until they were worn out of course. Still fancy some though, perhaps on cheap wheels, can you get cheap wheels? :?


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## Matchu (Jul 19, 2009)

Spooks said:


> Matchu said:
> 
> 
> > As Jamie has said really...
> ...


£260 a tyre...as for putting the summer tyres back on....tbh I've not asked. I'd expect that I'd be putting the summer tyres back on come March.


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

I get 2 to 3 winters out of a set of Winter tyres,obviously it depends on your mileage,but If you have a spare set of wheels,you save money in the long run.
I've had Mich Alpine 3's and to be honest they are not as good as Dunlops,Pirelli,or Conti winter tyres,Hankook,Nokian and Vredestein have been tested to be better in snow than the Michelins at a lot lower costs.
The new Alpine 4's are much better than the 3's


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## Matchu (Jul 19, 2009)

Indeed...I'll be going for the Alpine 4's once available in my size.


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

have a look at what's on the market and what they cost,as not always the most expensive are the best.
I have Pirelli Zotto on my daily runner at the moment,and they are far better than the alpine 3's i had fitted before.


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## Matchu (Jul 19, 2009)

Indeed...but the UK is rather poor at stocking Winter tyres...and in my size the choice was rather small! Still they will suffice for now.


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## BLinky (Jul 3, 2009)

don't forget you dont need a high speed rating, i doubt many of us will need more than a H for our winters.


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## jamiekip (Nov 12, 2006)

Matchu - where have you sourced your winter tyres? I'm struggling to get hold of anything!


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## Matchu (Jul 19, 2009)

jamiekip said:


> Matchu - where have you sourced your winter tyres? I'm struggling to get hold of anything!


I feel your pain! Was a bloody nightmare to be honest. Sourced mine eventually from Event Tyres....though Kwik Fit had some for £417 each :lol:

Other than that "out of stock" has been the message...followed by "we'll have stock by the summer".....pathetic really.


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

mytyres, seem to have winter tyres in stock,although I bet I can get them cheaper in Germany.
If I set up a warehouse in th UK next year,I might look into stocking some new Winter tyres.


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## martinbanshee (May 24, 2010)

We've got a good bit of snow in Aberdeen at the moment and my TT Quattro gets me about fine, just have to take it easy. 
I've got a Corsa work van that's FWD and has skinny tyres that does ok but not nearly as good as the TT. 
Last year I had a 4x4 jeep that was good in the snow but on steep slopes it struggled to get up and more importantly stop all because of its 2200kg weight, 4x4 and 1400 kg works much better.
You've got to learn to drive differently in snow, couple that with 4x4 and it make life easier.


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

Just dug out an old sportauto magazine with a test comparing different 4wd cars in the snow.
Only one other car that is on the same tyre as the TT RS, and that's a insignia VXR.
They say, the Audi is good for experienced drivers as the rear end is very lively,
The Opel however is easier to drive,and surprisingly slightly quicker.
TT RS, 0-100 km/h = 8.2 secs, 100-0km/h = 109.9m,lap time 4:28.4 ( Lap 4.7 km)
OPC, 0-100 km/h = 8.3 secs, 0-100km/h = 106m,lap time 4:27.6.
Tyres fitted, Dunlop Winter Sport 3D
A Golf R was also tested fitted with Conti 810 S
0-100 km/h = 9.5 sec,100-0km/h = 123m,lap time 4:41.5.
The slow lap time is due to the ESP keep cutting in,as it can't be fully switched off like the TT RS.
VW where disappointed with the results,and wanted to do their own 
Other cars tested were 
BM X6 M , 0-100 km/h = 8.9 secs,100-0 km/h = 104.8m, Lap time = 4:30.1, tyres Goodyear Ultra Grip
GTR, 0-100 km/h = 9.2 secs, 100-0 Km/h = 104.1, Laptime = 4:36.5 , tyres Bridgestone Blizzak
Panamera S, 0-100km/h = 8.1 secs.100-0 km/h = 109 m. Lap time = 4:28.9 , tyres Pirelli Sotto

Some interesting results there.


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

A light weight TT 2.0T quattro would probabely have done even better than the TT RS under those conditions (as long as you can turn the ESP fully off) - also regarding lap times, since power is not important when traction is so reduced. Weight alone might be more important than power/weight ratio for the overall performance under those conditions.

And most important is who has the best winter tires :wink:


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

doubt it, I drove home late last night -9.5 on ice,

a 2wd car would have taken twice the time to get home, 
4WD is faster on the snow no question in my eyes.


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## Racoonman (Dec 7, 2009)

I was visiting my sister last night and the road down to her house is VERY steep.
It was covered in snow and was unshure if i would get back up the hill..
Ihave the quattro with 19`wheels.
Well i tell you i was very impressed,car slowed down as wheels started to loose grip
but it constantly climbed up the hill no problem.


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## sixdoublesix (Nov 3, 2009)

Racoonman said:
 

> I was visiting my sister last night and the road down to her house is VERY steep.
> It was covered in snow and was unshure if i would get back up the hill..
> Ihave the quattro with 19`wheels.
> Well i tell you i was very impressed,car slowed down as wheels started to loose grip
> but it constantly climbed up the hill no problem.


I always have that problem when I visit your sisters :wink:

on a serios note, agree that it does slow down a bit but the traction works a treat to stop the wheel spin. Havent had any snow this way yet but really wanting to see how the DSG copes with selecting gears in Auto. will post back once I have had a play


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## BLinky (Jul 3, 2009)

Racoonman said:


> I was visiting my sister last night and the road down to her house is VERY steep.
> It was covered in snow and was unshure if i would get back up the hill..
> Ihave the quattro with 19`wheels.
> Well i tell you i was very impressed,car slowed down as wheels started to loose grip
> but it constantly climbed up the hill no problem.


I get that when i visit your sister too.

ffs i can't get out of the house because people are stuck outside gg.


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## Racoonman (Dec 7, 2009)

sixdoublesix said:


> Racoonman said:
> 
> 
> > I was visiting my sister last night and the road down to her house is VERY steep.
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## jamiekip (Nov 12, 2006)

Matchu said:


> jamiekip said:
> 
> 
> > Matchu - where have you sourced your winter tyres? I'm struggling to get hold of anything!
> ...


Thanks for that.
Have you managed to try the Pilot alpin's in snow and ice yet?


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## Matchu (Jul 19, 2009)

jamiekip said:


> Matchu said:
> 
> 
> > jamiekip said:
> ...


Not yet chap. Will let you know how I get on over the next week....


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## BLinky (Jul 3, 2009)

£417 each..


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## jamiekip (Nov 12, 2006)

I've gone the Michelin alpin PA3's too. Mainly due to availability and price. 245/40 18 @ £206 each... Which was the cheapest premium tyre available. They don't appear to be the best in snow, but as these will be on in dry, wet, ice and snow they strike a good compromise. Let's face it, they'll be a lot better than the Michelin PS3 that are on the car now!
Typical though... They get fitted Friday after the wheel are painted... But we've had about 8 inches of snow this afternoon!!!


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## martinbanshee (May 24, 2010)

sixdoublesix said:


> Racoonman said:
> 
> 
> > I was visiting my sister last night and the road down to her house is VERY steep.
> ...


The DSG works just fine in snow, I haven't had the need to manual override it.


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## BlackRS (Mar 9, 2010)

BLinky said:


> £417 each..


I ordered a set of Nokian WR G2 winters from mytyres (by phone) on Saturday morning at the cost of £132 each. Just checked the website this evening and they're now £232!!

Don't you just love capitalism?


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

mrdemon said:


> doubt it, I drove home late last night -9.5 on ice,
> 
> a 2wd car would have taken twice the time to get home,
> 4WD is faster on the snow no question in my eyes.


If that was aimed at my post I did say "A light weight TT 2.0T *quattro* would probabely have done even better than the TT RS...." :wink:


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

Arne said:


> A light weight TT 2.0T quattro would probabely have done even better than the TT RS under those conditions (as long as you can turn the ESP fully off) - also regarding lap times, since power is not important when traction is so reduced. Weight alone might be more important than power/weight ratio for the overall performance under those conditions.
> 
> And most important is who has the best winter tires :wink:


t
the VXR is nearly 400kg heavier than the TT RS but faster on the same tyre,so the weight argument doesn't work
How the FWD TT would compare to the RS would be interesting, as it's been tested faster than the RS on a wet lap .


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## jamiekip (Nov 12, 2006)

jaybyme said:


> Arne said:
> 
> 
> > A light weight TT 2.0T quattro would probabely have done even better than the TT RS under those conditions (as long as you can turn the ESP fully off) - also regarding lap times, since power is not important when traction is so reduced. Weight alone might be more important than power/weight ratio for the overall performance under those conditions.
> ...


In the snow... it wouldn't stand a chance if both were on the same tyres...
I've watched cars trying to get along the road near me and it's had me in stitches... why do people think revs are the answer when they start to slip :lol:


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

jaybyme said:


> Arne said:
> 
> 
> > A light weight TT 2.0T quattro would probabely have done even better than the TT RS under those conditions (as long as you can turn the ESP fully off) - also regarding lap times, since power is not important when traction is so reduced. Weight alone might be more important than power/weight ratio for the overall performance under those conditions.
> ...


There are more things than just the weight that is different between a VXR and a TT-RS. And if you don't think weight is important for lap times on snow (as it is on dry), I think you need to do some re-thinking :wink:

But power is not important as long as you are unable to use the power you have. So sharing the same driveline (TT Quattro/ TT RS), same tires, brakes not important, power not important, ESP off etc - the major differens affecting handling on snow between the TT and TT RS would be the weight, and that should be interesting to see.


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

I got defeated by the snow today.

All 4 tyres were spinning and it took 3 people pushing on the back to get me out.

Quattro didnt even get me going, but to be fair there was a good 12'' all around the car. Once I was clear of the foot of snow, it coped well though.


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## FreddieC (Oct 14, 2009)

I keep getting stuck all the time in my TTS dsg, people keep having to dig me out.

Any tips apart from buying winter tyres?


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

FreddieC said:


> Any tips apart from buying winter tyres?


Why not buying winter tyres? It's the best thing you can do!

Otherwise do everybody a favour and don't drive!


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

I'm just posting the figures as tested in Sportauto
Both the TT RS and VXR were fitted with exactly the same tyres,and the VXR done a faster lap


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## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

How do you find out if your tyres are winter, summer or both?


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## corradoman (Sep 11, 2010)

Wev`e just got our first bit of snow in north wales :lol: and its only a dusting, First time out in the quattro and not the best on michelin sports :lol: But it did what it is supposed to do with light thottle response! Nice bit of sideways action though  Good fun, The mrs has just gone off to work in it moaning that its not as good as her old Mitsubishi shogun pinin :roll: What do they expect!! she wants rid now :lol:


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

FreddieC said:


> I keep getting stuck all the time in my TTS dsg, people keep having to dig me out.
> 
> Any tips apart from buying winter tyres?


This is what winter tires would do for you:


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

sniper-sam said:


> How do you find out if your tyres are winter, summer or both?


Best way is to check the manufacturer's web-site.

Winter tyres will have a M+S marking (but as noted elsewhere, this doesn't mean a great deal these days). A snow flake on a mountain emblem indicates it's snow capable.


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## conneem (Nov 4, 2006)

Dash said:


> sniper-sam said:
> 
> 
> > How do you find out if your tyres are winter, summer or both?
> ...


You can't really go by the M+S any more as plenty of all seasons have that on them now. Proper new winter rubber will have the snow flake (maybe with the M+S on it also)


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## cheechy (Nov 8, 2006)

Its been widely reported that you cannot now get your hands on winter rubber. People seem to have taken the warnings on board this year but unfortunately if you haven't already got then you can basically forget about it this year unless your lucky enough to find some somewhere (and be prepared to pay!)


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## jamiekip (Nov 12, 2006)

http://www.mytyres.co.uk/

Still have stock in TT fitments for 17", 18" and 19"


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## David_1 (Sep 7, 2010)

http://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk still have stock for the Pirellis in 225/50 R17. I used them last year for my Continental WinterContact TS 830s and was very happy with their service.

Several European countries require winter tyres to be fitted in November, so stock levels are low around this time of year.


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## cheechy (Nov 8, 2006)

Yup looks like they have stock but have you seen the prices


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## BlackRS (Mar 9, 2010)

jamiekip said:


> http://www.mytyres.co.uk/
> 
> Still have stock in TT fitments for 17", 18" and 19"


I've attempted to order tyres from them twice in the last fortnight and it it hasn't happened on both occasions.

First go was for a set of Dunlops which after waiting a week, turned out to be not in stock, with no more expected.

Second attempt was on Sat, ordered a set of Nokians at £132 each, phoned today to see what was happening and lo and behold, can't find any record of your order sir. In the meantime the tyres have gone up to £240. Smells fishy to me, no?

Won't be trying a third time.

You've been warned...


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## Smeds (Oct 28, 2009)

I bought my Marangonis a couple of weeks ago and had them fitted on Saturday, have just been out and WOW! what a difference in the snow and ice, an investment for sure.


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## steem21 (Jun 27, 2009)

I was a bit worried about ordering from mytyres for that exact reason BlackRS. I read on a few reviews that if the tyre is not in stock, they take their time to tell you this. I was lucky though and ordered my Nokians last Thursday at the price of £128 each and they arrived today. The only way I could tell they had it in stock and processed was the courier tracking information saying they picked up the shipment! I think its very poor the way they have dealt with you... :evil:


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## cheechy (Nov 8, 2006)

steem21 said:


> I was a bit worried about ordering from mytyres for that exact reason BlackRS. I read on a few reviews that if the tyre is not in stock, they take their time to tell you this. I was lucky though and ordered my Nokians last Thursday at the price of £128 each and they arrived today. The only way I could tell they had it in stock and processed was the courier tracking information saying they picked up the shipment! I think its very poor the way they have dealt with you... :evil:


I've had that exact issue before with Mytyres - they sent out tyres I hadn't ordered and didn't say anything. When I did they offered me a discount and expected me to just take that and were surprised when I said no!

I evetually got my money back but I was still out of pocket in the end.


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## phil3012 (Jul 25, 2008)

Right I'm confused...

I thought that quattro (the haldex version specifically) simply directed power to the wheels that needed it most.

Thus on a 2WD drive car you only ever have power to two wheels.

quattro will direct power to the wheels that need it most, thus if the front wheels are spinning, power would be directed to the rear wheels which assuming they weren't spinning would get you moving.

Of course if all four wheel are spinning you're stuck, but provided you can get grip traction to either the front or rear wheels, quattro will keep you going.

Yes winter tyres will give you more traction than summer tyres and certain driving techniques are better than others, but like for like a 4WD drive is more likely to get moving than a 2WD car.


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## csi_basel (May 11, 2006)

Just changed to winter wheels this morning and the difference is immense. On the summer wheels the steering had become ridiculously light and I had the ABS coming on too! The car now feels a lot more planted on the road.

Seen a lot of mobile igloos..why not take 5 mins more and clear all the snow away.

Anyway glad to get the winters on, this is the first time I've been caught out. Next year, its mid November :wink:


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## wallstreet (Oct 19, 2009)

I had my winters on towards October mid, simple rule of thumb: 7C or below weather so stick on winters. That means before November.  But I did have to go to the UK to buy Conti TS830s. Geneva ran out! As did France.


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## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

Why would anyone think a 4wd had more grip? It has four tyres just like any other car however, the distbibution of the power means it is more efficient in making use of the grip it has. However if you brake then it has the same amount as any other car.

So conclusion is you can pull away and turn corners faster which means your going faster than a 2wd car but you have the same breaking ability as the 2wd car. = crash......

The answer is snow tyres....


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## BLinky (Jul 3, 2009)

sico said:


> Why would anyone think a 4wd had more grip? It has four tyres just like any other car however, the distbibution of the power means it is more efficient in making use of the grip it has. However if you brake then it has the same amount as any other car.
> 
> So conclusion is you can pull away and turn corners faster which means your going faster than a 2wd car but you have the same breaking ability as the 2wd car. = crash......
> 
> The answer is snow tyres....


controlled engine braking helps.


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## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

sico said:


> Why would anyone think a 4wd had more grip?


Because it does, or what would be the point?


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

BLinky said:


> [controlled engine braking helps.


Absolutely, I find this gives the most stability if you feel things starting to go a little waaaayhay.

Still, engine braking with Quattro doesn't help any more than with FWD as the Haldex coupling to the rear would be disengaged, if I understand things correctly.


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## wkhkelvin (May 27, 2009)

BLinky said:


> controlled engine braking helps.


Better than winter tires?


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## conneem (Nov 4, 2006)

sniper-sam said:


> sico said:
> 
> 
> > Why would anyone think a 4wd had more grip?
> ...


It gives more traction not grip 

4wd can also be useful to steer round the rear of the car using power though.


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## conneem (Nov 4, 2006)

BLinky said:


> controlled engine braking helps.


I'm not sure on Gen4 Haldex but the previous versions released the clutch to the rear axel when you took your foot off the accelerator pedal, so any useful engine braking advantage was only got with the use of a race controller


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## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

conneem said:


> sniper-sam said:
> 
> 
> > sico said:
> ...


But surely better traction is in turn going to give you better grip.
Example would be 2 front wheels spinning mean no traction and also no grip?


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## SAJ77 (Nov 16, 2008)

conneem said:


> It gives more traction not grip


Whats the difference between Traction and Grip? :? The definition of the words are the pretty much the same :?


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## boogle (Oct 9, 2010)

sniper-sam said:


> But surely better traction is in turn going to give you better grip.
> Example would be 2 front wheels spinning mean no traction and also no grip?


Traction
"This is the degree that a car is able to transfer power onto the track surface for forward momentum."

Grip
"The amount of traction a car has at any given point, affecting how easy it is for the driver to keep control through corners."

http://www.f1technical.net/glossary/g?s ... 2534237d56

- With 2 wheel drive the amount of grip is halved when accelerating, and to a smaller degree, when cornering.

- With 4 wheel drive the amount of traction is as high as it can be.

- In terms of braking the amount of wheels with power is irrelevant since both types of car have 4 wheel braking.

The only way to increase traction where it counts (cornering and braking) is to use winter tyres. 4 wheel drive with summer tyres simply enables you to get into trouble more easily.


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## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

With 2 wheel drive the amount of grip is halved when accelerating, and to a smaller degree, when cornering.

So that statement disproved sico's theory of 4wd cars not having more grip, which was exactly what I was trying to say only not as technical :lol:


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## conneem (Nov 4, 2006)

sniper-sam said:


> *With 2 wheel drive the amount of grip is halved when accelerating, and to a smaller degree, when cornering.*
> 
> So that statement disproved sico's theory of 4wd cars not having more grip, which was exactly what I was trying to say only not as technical :lol:


That bit highlighted is not from the F1tech website.

The term grip is generally used for describing lateral traction, where on slippery surfaces your lateral traction is what is important and where 4wd will not help other than allowing you to steer the rear of the car with power.



> Grip is a term describing the total cornering envelope of a race car by the friction component of the tire, the mass of the machine and the downforce generated.


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## conneem (Nov 4, 2006)

Here you go, an old Car & Diver test.

FWD wth winter tyres vs 4wd with all seasons (not summer) tyres 

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/ar ... n_-feature

Conclusions


> So What's the Bottom Line?
> 
> Four-wheel drive helps get cars going. When it comes time to brake or change direction on low-traction surfaces, the extra mass of the driveline becomes more of a detriment. Folks who live in hilly places that get snow may need the climbing capability of four-wheel drive. If it snows a lot in those hilly places, they should probably invest in winter tires, too. Even flat-landers who happen to have steep driveways may wish to consider a four-wheel-driver.
> 
> Almost everyone else will most likely be better served by using winter tires. Acceleration takes longer, but in an emergency, the handling behavior and improved lateral grip of two-wheel drive and winter tires -- in the slippery stuff -- are the safer bets.


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## BLinky (Jul 3, 2009)

concludion = get 4wd with winter tyres 

p.s. rally driving is fun. also why do woman in 4x4s give you evils as you overtake them?


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## conneem (Nov 4, 2006)

BLinky said:


> concludion = get 4wd with winter tyres
> 
> p.s. rally driving is fun. also why do woman in 4x4s give you evils as you overtake them?


I know someone who gets funny looks too, in his orange Exige with winter tyres as he kicks up 10feet high sprays of snow while passing wheel spinning soft roaders with summer rubber :lol:


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

conneem said:


> I know someone who gets funny looks too, in his orange Exige with winter tyres as he kicks up 10feet high sprays of snow while passing wheel spinning soft roaders with summer rubber :lol:


Wonderful :lol: :lol: :lol:

Got any pics?


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## BLinky (Jul 3, 2009)

has any1 also encouraged people behind to brake hard so all the thick snow on their roof they hadn't been bothered to clear land and cover their windscreen. I have a mate who does that and he thinks it's funny, he's a naughty boy.


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## cheechy (Nov 8, 2006)

Had fun earlier this evening. Have to say I don't have winter rubber on but decided to take the S down the shops to get some stuff as we've been snowed in since the weekend (east coast of Scotland!)

I did almost get stuck at one point in the supermarket car park - I had to rock back and forwards for a bit to get out but I suspect without the quattro I would almost definately been stuck. The back wheels were cutting in when I had to reverse to rock the car. On the fresh white stuff the car went fine.

The biggest problem I came across though was - surprise surprise - ground clearance!

As an aside as the shelves were bsaically free of almost all milk I'm looking forward to my fresh goats milk and activa milk (its good for cholesterol levels you know!) :lol: :lol:


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## mikef4uk (Jan 15, 2006)

cheechy said:


> The biggest problem I came across though was - surprise surprise - ground clearance!
> 
> :lol: :lol:


Yes!, That can be an issue, I didn't like the rubbing noises from underneath either, maybe all the ''quattro'' non owners that seem to think 4WD is pointless are right...........after all their cars are usually higher off the ground :lol: :lol:


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## wallstreet (Oct 19, 2009)

The V6 Cheese graters act like snow ploughs under the car.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

BLinky said:


> has any1 also encouraged people behind to brake hard so all the thick snow on their roof they hadn't been bothered to clear land and cover their windscreen. I have a mate who does that and he thinks it's funny, he's a naughty boy.


That is naughty - but I must confess I've had similar thoughts. I just wouldn't want to run the risk of somebody not stopping and colliding with me.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

.


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## jamiekip (Nov 12, 2006)

You must be driving a different car to me Tosh.
Down by the gear stick their is a button with ESP on it. Push it and the car WILL be allowed to have s bit of slip, hold it for 5 seconds or do and you can have some great fun! I find the gen 4 haldex very entertaining in these conditions


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

.


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

it's like driving a RWD car atm, had loads of tail out over steering fun on my road.
I was very supprised how RWD it felt.

I don't think Tosh knows how to turn ESP off [smiley=gossip.gif]


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

Been reading this and now feel the need to comment...I have a MK1 TTR Q180 which I use as my daily driver. I simply fit std (not Winter) tyres at end of each year - I do between 800 to 1k miles per week so tyres always worn by October each year. Car performs perfectly well in snow...no issues.

All the snow from last year and this year has been no bother...I did spin once last year driving across snow pile doing 40mph (that was simply me being silly) on the motorway...I managed to wrestle car to standstill...using low gearing / engine braking and ABS...worked just fine though I won't speed in that scenario again.

No doubt Winter tyres would be useful however am OK for now...the problem is not neccessarily you having a moment...it is others who may have a moment and crash in to you that worries me during these snow periods...it is scary out there!

Safe motoring to all...I want to see ya'all here in the Spring...and in one piece.


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## Smeds (Oct 28, 2009)

996cab said:


> Been reading this and now feel the need to comment...I have a MK1 TTR Q180 which I use as my daily driver. I simply fit std (not Winter) tyres at end of each year - I do between 800 to 1k miles per week so tyres always worn by October each year. Car performs perfectly well in snow...no issues.
> 
> All the snow from last year and this year has been no bother...I did spin once last year driving across snow pile doing 40mph (that was simply me being silly) on the motorway...I managed to wrestle car to standstill...using low gearing / engine braking and ABS...worked just fine though I won't speed in that scenario again.
> 
> ...


I have the same car as you and have never had anything other than regular, mid priced tyres. Used to have an MR2 that I never had trouble with in the snow and ice, but this year winter tyres just felt like the right thing to do. They will last me a minimum of two years and when the temp goes above 7 or so degrees they'll come off, in the long run it won't cost me much extra. I've been blown away by the tyre's performance and I'm converted.


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## jamiekip (Nov 12, 2006)

Toshiba said:


> You have winter tyres though, makes a massive difference.
> if you want to doughnut it, its very easy. but getting moving up an icy hill is not that good from a standstill.


The only went on today mate, managed 60 miles on them so far that's all (mainly motorway too).
I was referencing my experiences from the rest of this snow ridden week. To be fair I think it's coped well on summer tyres and in the right place has proved to be great fun. Impressed with sport ESP setting as well. Offers just enough fun before intervening in my view!

With regards the winter tyre in my view on the limited time I was on snow covered roads today they offer easily 4 times the traction. On a country lane near me I did a full on drag launch. 5k rpm, esp off, drop the clutch and see what happens...
... Initial spin and then it finds more and more grip to the point it pulled quickly. Up to 40 mph jumped on the brakes.... Again ABS initially kicked in, then the tyre find grip and the ABS intervenes far less. Again, it stopped quickly and safely.

On clear roads they do feel different to 'summer' tyres. A little softer and looser. Took a little getting used to but when traffic and road conditions permitted it was clear you could lean on them safely. I guess it's just the fact winter rubber is designed to 'flex' more.

Will try and do some vids


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## steem21 (Jun 27, 2009)

I had my 18" nokians put on this morning and what a revelation! Very confidence inspiring. Just cuts through slush and finds the grip. On my 19" yesterday, I was very nervous about braking on the slush. Once the roads had thawed a bit, I noticed I was kicking up a lot of spray and it was less phased by deeper pools of water on the road. If u can get them at reasonable prices, do it!


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## CraigW (Mar 19, 2009)

steem21 said:


> I had my 18" nokians put on this morning and what a revelation! Very confidence inspiring. Just cuts through slush and finds the grip. On my 19" yesterday, I was very nervous about braking on the slush. Once the roads had thawed a bit, I noticed I was kicking up a lot of spray and it was less phased by deeper pools of water on the road. If u can get them at reasonable prices, do it!


Where did you get your tyres from mate?


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## steem21 (Jun 27, 2009)

Mytyres online. I ordered last week. Price then: £128. Now: £200!!! I got them fitted to secondhand wheels at Glasgow Audi - the guy did it for free!


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

here's a video posted by someone which shows it's very unlikely the TT will get stuck in the snow once winter tyres are fitted.


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## mikef4uk (Jan 15, 2006)

£800 for winter tyres + secondhand wheels for about 3 weeks use sounds around the same money as a Revo and an anti roll bar upgrade, I know which I will get more pleasure from


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## jamiekip (Nov 12, 2006)

Only if your car's still in one piece


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## wallstreet (Oct 19, 2009)

jaybyme said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD7kg3Mhphw
> here's a video posted by someone which shows it's very unlikely the TT will get stuck in the snow once winter tyres are fitted.


Wish I had a place soo open to do that!! The roads are now icy and sloppy here but no loss of traction with my winter contis ts830s.


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## jamiekip (Nov 12, 2006)

My snow set up...


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## wallstreet (Oct 19, 2009)

Through the spyhole! A winter wonderland










The rear garden is deep in snow










My driveway into the Bunker level parking



















Easy up or down on ts830 Contis










iPhone pics in the snow quality nit the best!!

Braking was perfect even on hardened snow & ice, grip was available throughout the drive and a pleasure.

I once accelerated fast in an off the road parking lot and got the rear out, for a short time and then the blue haldex kicked in and powered the rear back to the straight line from
A slide like a rwd would!!


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

bloody hell ! you live on a steep hill Jamie :lol: 
Them Mich's are gripping well


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## conneem (Nov 4, 2006)

mikef4uk said:


> £800 for winter tyres + secondhand wheels for about 3 weeks use sounds around the same money as a Revo and an anti roll bar upgrade, I know which I will get more pleasure from


Winter tyres begin to overtake summers in performance as the temperature drops below 7oC, not just on snow/ice


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## sixdoublesix (Nov 3, 2009)

Had our first bit of snow last night and first chance to check out the MK2 DSG V6 in the snow, works perfectly... a few flickers of the ESP but other than that no problems and on new 19s summer tyres. then took the MK1 225 out and still as good, feels less stable on the MK roundabouts but compared to other cars on the road it "yellow snowed" all over them!


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## MXS (May 10, 2010)

jamiekip said:


> Only if your car's still in one piece


Only if you have the one car :wink:


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## MXS (May 10, 2010)

sixdoublesix said:


> Had our first bit of snow last night and first chance to check out the MK2 DSG V6 in the snow, works perfectly... a few flickers of the ESP but other than that no problems and on new 19s summer tyres. then took the MK1 225 out and still as good, feels less stable on the MK roundabouts but compared to other cars on the road it "yellow snowed" all over them!


My V6 is still on 19" summers, and I have had no problems driving around, but I am careful not to get too complacent


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

I bet anyone that tries Winter tyres for the first time this year,will never ever drive in the Winter with Summer tyres again


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## jamiekip (Nov 12, 2006)

jaybyme said:


> I bet anyone that tries Winter tyres for the first time this year,will never ever drive in the Winter with Summer tyres again


Yep... They're a revelation to me. Can't recommend them enough!


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## David_1 (Sep 7, 2010)

jamiekip said:


> jaybyme said:
> 
> 
> > I bet anyone that tries Winter tyres for the first time this year,will never ever drive in the Winter with Summer tyres again
> ...


Absolutely, it's like night & day; you feel much more benefit with winter tyres than with Quattro & summer tyres.

There's been quite a few posts from people saying 'I've been fine on [unspecified] summer tyres'; whilst I don't doubt it, there can be a huge range in performance using summer tyres in the winter, ranging from average to abysmal. Directional tyres like the Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 with a V-shaped tread have no ability whatsoever to grip on snow or cut through ice; they just spin uselessly.








WIth those on last winter I found the slightest incline would defeat the car; on the plus side you get to meet some interesting passers by when you keep having to ask for a push.


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## sixdoublesix (Nov 3, 2009)

MXS said:


> sixdoublesix said:
> 
> 
> > Had our first bit of snow last night and first chance to check out the MK2 DSG V6 in the snow, works perfectly... a few flickers of the ESP but other than that no problems and on new 19s summer tyres. then took the MK1 225 out and still as good, feels less stable on the MK roundabouts but compared to other cars on the road it "yellow snowed" all over them!
> ...


+1

Thats the thing with a TT, Quattro, ESP, ASR and ABS really do give a false sense of security and make you get a bit cocky but every so often the TT will just remind you to be aware, especially when it gives you that quick twitch!


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## BLinky (Jul 3, 2009)

don't forget to take into account some of the comments are a bit subjective to road conditions, speed and what the poster considers good or bad. simply saying there was some slightly cold water and I'm fine and the car is fine and therefore something's good could mean i was driving in the straight line down the A1 which was completely clear if not a little moist at 40mph and i didn't speed up slow down or anything and the car was fine and therefore doesn't really mean anything. Simply saying going up W hill on X wheels Y drive and Z rubber doesn't mean anything until you tell us if the hill is covered in snow, snow with ice underneath ,slush with ice underneath, thick snow X inches deep, grit, or whatever and at whatever speed or whether you had to stop at times or whatever. would be helpful if some of the posts were more detailed.


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

I would consider the car to be good in the snow,when you can still do 60 mph on the motorway in 10cm of snow.
Obviously leaving a good 100 meters plus between cars.
Try that with Summer tyres and you would be mad !
I love watching Sky news, and a Lord so and so ?,is advising the government what to do to solve the disruption caused by cold weather in the UK .
His answer,"stay at home,if you do go out,make sure you have a warm blanket,food,and a shovel in the car !!.LMFHO 
How much money is being wasted in the UK on crap like this ?
How much money is being lost by businesses,and schools closing because of a few inches of snow ?
I wish they would do something about it, as it's bloody embarrassing being English and living abroad,every time Winter comes around.


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## sixdoublesix (Nov 3, 2009)

Yep I heard a good one the other day that said "Dont go out unless you have to" - yep because I love walking to streets or driving about for no reason..

other one was "Drivers warned to be careful of the frozen ice on the roads!" ... really? thats like saying "a Fireman's job is to put out burning flames!"


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## steeve (Jul 8, 2010)

Doesnt help any when you need to stop quickly. Just the same as every one else. As I found out with my two day old car when presented with a white van man reversing blindly towards me. Oh shit I thought.


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

I'm back in Germany at the moment and I now know why everyone in Germany has winter tyres. They don't grit anything. I drove from the Hoek of Holland to Dresden and I averaged 51mph. Most 3-lane Autobahns were down to one lane in each direction and almost everywhere was running with 60-80km/h limits. Then the last 15km from the Autobahn to my hotel were genuinely nerve-wracking. There was snow drifting across the single carriageway road and you couldn't see where the road ended and the snow-filled ditch began. I knew it was there though because I've driven the road frequently and I've seen dozens of cars being pulled out of these passive tank-traps by horses or old Zetor tractors.

Without snow tyres I doubt I would have made it to be honest. In deep snow (like the hotel car park) I was a passenger most of the time. The car hopped, twitched and fish-tailed it's way about as one wheel found grip and the car twitched forward then another one found grip somewhere else and the car lurched off in that direction. ESP switched on kept the car in a straight line, ASR & ESP off caused the car to perform lazy J-turns all by itself. It was quite entertaining as long as nothing else was in the car park with me. And thanks to the roadhawks I can watch it all again, including the truly sphincter clenching 80mph aquaplane when I hit a DEEP pool of water at the bottom of an Autobahn 'valley'.

So in terms of what contributes to MY safety I'd say Winter tyres - 60%, Quattro - 30%, driver skills - 10% (I need to get some low co-efficient of grip driving training like WallStreet has had).


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## wallstreet (Oct 19, 2009)

wja96 said:


> I'm back in Germany at the moment and I now know why everyone in Germany has winter tyres. They don't grit anything. I drove from the Hoek of Holland to Dresden and I averaged 51mph. Most 3-lane Autobahns were down to one lane in each direction and almost everywhere was running with 60-80km/h limits. Then the last 15km from the Autobahn to my hotel were genuinely nerve-wracking. There was snow drifting across the single carriageway road and you couldn't see where the road ended and the snow-filled ditch began. I knew it was there though because I've driven the road frequently and I've seen dozens of cars being pulled out of these passive tank-traps by horses or old Zetor tractors.
> 
> Without snow tyres I doubt I would have made it to be honest. In deep snow (like the hotel car park) I was a passenger most of the time. The car hopped, twitched and fish-tailed it's way about as one wheel found grip and the car twitched forward then another one found grip somewhere else and the car lurched off in that direction. ESP switched on kept the car in a straight line, ASR & ESP off caused the car to perform lazy J-turns all by itself. It was quite entertaining as long as nothing else was in the car park with me. And thanks to the roadhawks I can watch it all again, including the truly sphincter clenching 80mph aquaplane when I hit a DEEP pool of water at the bottom of an Autobahn 'valley'.
> 
> So in terms of what contributes to MY safety I'd say Winter tyres - 60%, Quattro - 30%, driver skills - 10% (I need to get some low co-efficient of grip driving training like WallStreet has had).


Excellent write up, driver skills were tweaked by the training in the snow. I now know how to avoid cars, people without having to feel stressed, the practice perfects it. You need to not feed the wheel. Next empty car park drive 30, 40, 50 kph & try to miss an imaginary object by going around it. It's possible by braking & steering out. But steering ever so slightly!


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Perhaps you should start a thread detailing what you learnt.


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## touchwood1 (Mar 9, 2010)

I concur with all these replies, AWD is OK, but snow tyres are the answer. As soon as you brake, you have no wheel drive. So your AWD TT will go up that hill, but can you safely get down the other side?


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

Possibly worth noting that since last Monday, winter tyres are a legal requirement in Germany if there is ice or snow on the ground.


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## wallstreet (Oct 19, 2009)

Dash said:


> Perhaps you should start a thread detailing what you learnt.


Done mate, but practice in reality somewhere safe is the best thing. The 3 videos I found give an idea of some of the learning points in the course I took.

http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=187895&sid=0977cf69e6c08fb41aedc9ec755c50c8


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