# M5 Touring (and 5 series revamp)



## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default ... ryId=15689

Not bad actually. Still a bimmer, but its a better prospect than the saloon (for my money) and good for 200mph apparently. :lol:


----------



## Johnnywb (May 31, 2006)

They should have done it years ago. They lost of lot of sales to Merc and even Volvo because of the lack of a rapid estate in the range. Glad they've seen sense at last!

Hope there's a belt in the back for the dog tho, because otherwise he ain't have gonna be all over the shop if you put your foot down!


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=15689
> 
> Not bad actually. Still a bimmer, but its a better prospect than the saloon (for my money) and good for 200mph apparently. :lol:


Nice article on it in this weeks Auto Express. I've never been an Estate/Avant/Touring fan & much prefer Saloons (Audi & BMW), but their are many who are dog carrying fans.

On the Estate vs Saloon debate, i do think that opting for the load lugger is by far the more stealth option if that's your thing, as you do see plenty of A4, A6 & 5 Series Saloons (loads in fact), but very few in Estate form so a very stealthy choice if that's your bag.

It's a tad slower than the saloon (of course) & has been on the BMW drawing board for over 12mths. Not sure how well it will do as the market must be more limited than the M5 Saloon & M6 but i'm sure they'll sell a few. It's also got Air Self Levelling suspension so not much fun round a track :lol:

TBH if an estate was my bag, i'd probably save the Â£15K & jump back to Audi with a B7 RS4 Avant, i just think as a performance Estate the RS4 looks that bit more agressive than the M5 Touring, pkus for a load lugger, the range in the M5 is pitiful so unless the tank is bigger in the M5 Touring, it will make a shite touring tool 

The Lane departure feature should turn things round. BMW drivers will HAVE to indicate when changing lanes otherwise they'll have a vibrating steering wheel to deal with (how sweet) 

The 16 speaker 825watt stereo sounds interesting. That's 5 speakers more than the Saloon (or is it 3).

Ps. Only good for 200MPH if you have the limiter removed of course so i can see a line of Tourings lining up at DMS as we speak :wink: :lol:


----------



## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

A few? They'll sell tons.

Look at the RS6 - by how many times did the avant outsell the saloon? 10, 15, 20? I've seen loads of RS6 Avants but only ever come across one saloon (yours).

I've always been firmly in the estate camp. However, I did look inside the boot of a 5 series saloon in a BMW dealer recently. It's massive. Huge. It did make me rethink my usual automatic "estate please" reaction.


----------



## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

Carlos said:


> A few? They'll sell tons.
> 
> Look at the RS6 - by how many times did the avant outsell the saloon? 10, 15, 20? I've seen loads of RS6 Avants but only ever come across one saloon (yours).
> 
> I've always been firmly in the estate camp. However, I did look inside the boot of a 5 series saloon in a BMW dealer recently. It's massive. Huge. It did make me rethink my usual automatic "estate please" reaction.


This may be true for Audi as they make good looking estates, but Beemers look far nicer in saloon guise AFAIC...

Incidentally Paul, did your RS6 have 'the beast' as a metal badge on the boot? If it did, I saw it just before xmas....

H


----------



## jdn (Aug 26, 2002)

Still has that same awful rear valance that ruins the M5.

Improve that and it would look much better.


----------



## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

jdn said:


> Still has that same awful rear valance that ruins the M5.
> 
> Improve that and it would look much better.


It complements the dodgy 80's style zorsts well though 

H


----------



## Tubbs (Feb 14, 2004)

Shame the touring is missing the roof rails.... Think they would make it look even better!!


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Carlos said:


> A few? They'll sell tons.
> 
> Look at the RS6 - by how many times did the avant outsell the saloon? 10, 15, 20? I've seen loads of RS6 Avants but only ever come across one saloon (yours).
> 
> I've always been firmly in the estate camp. However, I did look inside the boot of a 5 series saloon in a BMW dealer recently. It's massive. Huge. It did make me rethink my usual automatic "estate please" reaction.


Carl, me thinks you're slightly dillusional. They WON'T sell tons as the market for Â£70K estates is hardly a huge market & Audi did not sell tons of RS6's although the Avant outsold the Saloon 3:1 (production stats confirm this). The balance then swayed as the final production run was the RS6+ which only came in Avant form.

I'd be surprised if the M5 will go the same way. Audi's RS heritage was Avant, but M5's heritage is saloons. They did launch an M5 Touring in the E34 (i think) but the production was halted due to woeful sales figures. Oddly enough BMW did the same with the early M3 model, when they launched a Touring & Saloon version, but for M3's the Coupe & rag-top were the prefered option so again both were dropped.

I can however see BMW getting a jump on Audi for those who feel the B7 RS4 just aint large enough or powerful enough, as the new RS6 still has not been confirmed by Audi so BMW may get 6mths advantage.


----------



## Kell (May 28, 2002)

I do think that more people like Audi RS Estates because, if anything, it's the purer choice given that the RS2 and original RS4 were only available in 'Avant' form.

Personally I think that Estates on the whole look better than their Saloon counterparts, and would much rather have the M5 Touring than the Saloon. Plus, as others have mentioned, it appears at first glance to be the stealthier approach as most people wouldn't expect an Estate car to outdrag them at the lights or pull away from them on B roads.

The only thing I don't like about the M5 is that rear valance. It all seems a bit 'Halfords'. :?


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Kell said:


> I do think that more people like Audi RS Estates because, if anything, it's the purer choice given that the RS2 and original RS4 were only available in 'Avant' form.
> 
> Personally I think that Estates on the whole look better than their Saloon counterparts, and would much rather have the M5 Touring than the Saloon. Plus, as others have mentioned, it appears at first glance to be the stealthier approach as most people wouldn't expect an Estate car to outdrag them at the lights or pull away from them on B roads.
> 
> The only thing I don't like about the M5 is that rear valance. It all seems a bit 'Halfords'. :?


Totally agree with the exception of looks. Estates to me should be about function. If you need to lug a load of crap to the tip every week or have dogs or perhaps a musician or carry stock etc. then they make sense. To me looks are sacrificed for function as the lines on any estate are sacrificed for space as often (RS4 & RS6 for example) the estate provides slightly less cabin space, but a huge laod space. Not sure what you mean about the rear valance unless the Touring is different to the Saloon? it looks good with the quad pipes & less in your face than the M-Sport variant. It's also their for practical reasons for keeping the arse planted at very high speeds. The puny little boot spoiler wouldn't fo much to keep the back end connected with the road at 180+MPH.


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

I think Carl means tons in a relative term. Although it is a very heavy car so selling two could constitute 'tons'.

The point is that Audi RSx have primarily been estates from conception, and this is the unique 180mph dog thing that Audi have positioned so well in. i don't know the numbers but I have certainly seen more RS6 avants than saloons, and it is a safe bet to assmue that despite launching RS4 saloon first, the Avant will prove to be more popular.

BMW entering the fray is good for competition and I think the sales balance on new registrations will start to favour the M5 Touring.

It seems also likely from reports that BMW will come out with a new M3 Touring and saloon over the next couple of years, which will be great competition for the RS4.

I'd still think that the 335d/535d M sport Tourings are better and cheaper propositions for load luggers. Especially with a 335hp remap. The economy and more importantly ultimate range of the M5 and RS4/6 are pathetic - unless refuelling every 200 miles turns you on.

With BMW taking up residence in the hi performance estate sector, Audi will need the A5 coupe to perform well in the 4 seater sports coupe sector, where BMW has done so well.


----------



## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Now BMW need a decent sports car to take on the R8. The M6 is nice, but isn't it. They should be shoehorning the V10 into a 2 seater, mid-enginged "beast". :wink:


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> Now BMW need a decent sports car to take on the R8. The M6 is nice, but isn't it. They should be shoehorning the V10 into a 2 seater, mid-enginged "beast". :wink:


Agree 100%. The R8 is i think Audi's 1st attempt at a mid-engined car (excluding of course the companies they've bought), so perhaps BMW may have a go. The M6 is more your Aston, Maser market (may have missed a couple out) so agree it aint R8 land although tis an option as they're in the same price bracket.

I feel both Audi & BMW know where their strengths lie & for Audi it's Quattro, crazy fast Avants, cute coupes & sensible motors, for BMW it's RWD (ulitmate driving machine) Exec rep & mgmt transport (3 & 5 Series) & again the snesible motors, although according to the press they have also benchmarked the soft-roader market with the X5. For many years the 3 Series has been the benchmark for the small-medium car market & the 5 Series the benchmark for the Mid-Size. Can't decided who has the jump in performance stakes as regards S/RS for Audi & M for BMW. I'd say it's a tie & down to tastes really.


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Agree. I think BMW are already working on a Z9 or M1 sucessor, according to a few photoshops in Car etc.

BMW coupes are OK: 6 series, 3 series C and Z4C

They got burned on the Z8, but they must be eyeing the R8 and 997 space. I dont know how attractive that is commercially. M6 not setting world on fire. Thing is do they need a flagship exercise like Audi covet with R8? I can see the marketing power of the R8 for Audi.

Like you said they both are talented marketing companies and know their stuff.


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Hannibal said:


> Carlos said:
> 
> 
> > A few? They'll sell tons.
> ...


Andy, i totally agree so i'm not a huge fan of Bimmer wagons & feel Audi do it slightly better.

As for my old RS6, it did NOT have "The Beast" as a metal badge on the boot. I did have something along those lines as a tag line on the Number Plates however the W8PMC came off before she was sold so that never made it to the new owner either.

The guy i sold it to lives in London so unlikely it was my old RS6.


----------



## jdn (Aug 26, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> .... *Not sure what you mean about the rear valance* unless the Touring is different to the Saloon? it looks good with the quad pipes & less in your face than the M-Sport variant...


Here is a clue:

http://www.********.co.uk/gallery/jdnpics/bmvalance.jpg

Awful.


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jdn said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > .... *Not sure what you mean about the rear valance* unless the Touring is different to the Saloon? it looks good with the quad pipes & less in your face than the M-Sport variant...
> ...


Each to their own i guess. I like it very much although perhaps it does look a little more out of place on the Touring than the Saloon, but hey ho it's a styling cue i like. Is it the whole rear end you don't like as per your very stylish arrows?? or just the lower zorst section & rear splitter?

I think it suits the back of the car perfectly & as already said, it's their for a very good reason. Even more so perhaps on the Touring as their is no roof spoiler to speak of.

To make the point, BMW have only 4 external styling cues to distinguish the M5 (Touring or Saloon) from other E60 M-Sports models. The front valance as the M5 does not have front fog lamps, the front wing grilles with M5 emblem, the rear valance to take & show-off the quad pipes & aid needed downforce & the oval wing mirrors. Unlike the RS, they have not flared the arches & altered the body or made the car look that much meaner (perhaps a good or bad thing depending on your tastes).


----------



## Wolfsburger (Oct 21, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> Estates to me should be about function.


They`re about flexibility to me. Some estates look better than the saloons they`re based on IMHO. This includes the present 5 series, the present A4/6 and the present E-Class.


----------



## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> I think it suits the back of the car perfectly & as already said, it's their for a very good reason. Even more so perhaps on the Touring as their is no roof spoiler to speak of.


Estates are normally less needy of spoilers as the extended roof catches the air coming down after it goes over the screen. This is why Volvo used them to great effect in the BTCC.

That valance just doesn't work on the touring. :?


----------



## Kell (May 28, 2002)

That was exactly the bit I meant.

It may well serve a purpose, but it still cheapens the look of the car - to me anyway.

I actually like the styling of the current 5-series, but do feel that the quad pipes and the valance look very aftermarket.


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Kell said:


> That was exactly the bit I meant.
> 
> It may well serve a purpose, but it still cheapens the look of the car - to me anyway.
> 
> I actually like the styling of the current 5-series, but do feel that the quad pipes and the valance look very aftermarket.


Would look a bit weedy with a Reliant Robin pee shooter tailpipe 

I do know what you mean though. I love the look but i guess it's down to personal taste. I'm sure they could have got away with 2 large ovals aka RS4 & 6, however the S4's now have quad pipes & that new Alfa Coupe thing has quads, plus some of the end of life previous Jag XKR (i'm sure their's others).


----------



## jdn (Aug 26, 2002)

The pipes themselves are fine.

It is the 'flaps' above them and the way the centre section dives under the car that makes it look 'stuck on' and a bit of an afterthought IMO.

Front, sides, roof and rear window are fine.


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jdn said:


> The pipes themselves are fine.
> 
> It is the 'flaps' above them and the way the centre section dives under the car that makes it look 'stuck on' and a bit of an afterthought IMO.
> 
> Front, sides, roof and rear window are fine.


I can see that. The centre section although it does dive under the rear of the car somewhat, is actually a large hole more commonly known as a functional diffuser. It does perhaps look slightly OTT but is form & function 1st & not their to add any perceived style. Tend to slightly agree about the overhang above the pipes, but i love the look.


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

How to do quad pipes on an estate:



















Nice.


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

The AMG looks far more Halfords than the M5. The S6 looks nice though.


----------



## jdn (Aug 26, 2002)

Audi have it right.

Many cars have a diffuser of sorts - for all the real good it does on the road - but manage to do a much better job than the M5.


----------



## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

At the risk of going on, somewhat, the diffuser on the R8 looks lush - even better for not having exhausts in it


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jdn said:


> Audi have it right.
> 
> Many cars have a diffuser of sorts - for all the real good it does on the road - but manage to do a much better job than the M5.


I'm so glad you don't like it & i guess it's the only reason you've not bought an M5 :lol:

It tickles me how folk (including i guess myself sometimes) like to air their dislikes about a car, especially when someone else who owns one passes comment. That is what i love about this forum :lol: . Their are things I don't like about the M5, but they're far out weighed by the things i do like & if the only thing wrong with the M5 (Saloon or Touring) is that the rear diffuser & exhaust surrounds don't look as sweet as they could, then i'm sure the BMW & more especially the Engineers at M Sport will sleep easy in their beds tonight & not fear that the very long standing M Sport Heritage has been sacrificed by the newer M5's.

I like it, you don't. Sounds fair enough to me.


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> At the risk of going on, somewhat, the diffuser on the R8 looks lush - even better for not having exhausts in it


Tim,

You'll here no arguement from me on how lush the R8 looks full stop. Can't wait to see one in the flesh & i'm sure some will no doubt pick fault with many of the design cues at some point (even you perhaps once you have one) 8)


----------



## jdn (Aug 26, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> jdn said:
> 
> 
> > Audi have it right.
> ...


I can't afford one.

I like _most_ of it...


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jdn said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > jdn said:
> ...


Me to 8)


----------



## Kell (May 28, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> It tickles me how folk (including i guess myself sometimes) like to air their dislikes about a car, especially when someone else who owns one passes comment. That is what i love about this forum :lol:


It's not _too_ bad though eh Paul? If the only thing that people can say they dislike about your car is the rear 'bumper'.

I can understand all the arguments about form v function, it just seems odd to me that the rest of the car works and that it's only the rear that looks out of place.

Perhaps they gave that bit to the student on work placement. :?

Like others have said though, It's not the reason that I haven't bought one. That comes down to cash.


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Kell said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > It tickles me how folk (including i guess myself sometimes) like to air their dislikes about a car, especially when someone else who owns one passes comment. That is what i love about this forum :lol:
> ...


I was just in a playful mood yesterday :lol: . I'll revert back to sensible & moody today :wink:

We all know the M5 is far from perfect, but show me a perfect car for any amount of cash?? I can live with people not liking her rear end, as said it won't keep the designers or engineers awake at night 8)


----------

