# 3.2 VR6 Timing Chain Problems



## edwardjames (May 24, 2016)

Hi Guys,

Nice to be on your forum.

I wonder if anybody can help me:

I am actually a part time car trader and recently bought a 3.2 Quattro from auction which has the dreaded chain problem and runs very badly indeed.

We have tried most of the low cost remedies like oil flush and chain and new tensioner but to no avail.

So unlike most traders who tend to fill the engine full of Lucas and bang it back through the auction, I always try to repair if I can as I am a big boy and try to accept my mistakes and responsibilities!!

Anyway rant over and here is where I could do with some help: I have managed to buy a chain kit and I have a mechanic who is prepared to do the job, however he and I are finding it virtually impossible to find a cam pin kit (or camshaft alignment plate) for the VR6 engine (loads for the V6!) I have tried all the standard suppliers plus ebay, but cant find anything anywhere. The only one I can find is from an American company called ECS Tuning who will ship to the UK but its going to take time. Does anybody know if its possible to get hold of one in the UK?

Also any advice on chain replacement would be very welcomed and If it helps I would be happy to document the process we are going to attempt and post back on the forum.

Like I say any help at all would be welcome.

Thanks,

James


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## conlechi (May 6, 2006)

Page 139 of this thread might be of help  
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=178598&p=2555794&hilit=timing+chain#p2555794


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Good luck with the overhaul..he will not want to do it again..it's a PITA. depending on clutch wear..is it worth putting a new unit in..maybe, but £400 is a chunk..DMF is even more..

I will answer questions if I can but I'm working in Kaz and 4 hour time difference.
Steve


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## rusTTy_racer (Sep 7, 2015)

If it's the camshaft locking plate tool you need use TPS and ask for a ST10068A. You get a pair so should be alright if you ever get a W12!

Where about are you chap?

Don't be fooled this will cost, big time... but if done correctly can ease a sale for you. My worry as Steve says above is if it's chucked back together then you may still have many un-resolved issues and by then you won't want to take it back apart again. :?


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

The cam plates are too expensive for what they are.
If you are at TDC the slots in the end of the cams are offset and WILL allow a 3mm shim to be inserted, if cams not at TDC a plate wont fit in.
Steve


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## edwardjames (May 24, 2016)

Hi Guys,

First of all thanks for your replies and advice.

Luckily its a DSG which seems to be behaving which we will also service during the process, so thankfully no need for the extra expense of the clutch!!

Thanks for the info re the cam lock and due to the oem number given I have managed to find one on Ebay for just over £30.

Here's the link if anybody's interested:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BGS-Tools-Cam ... SwpDdVSOfl

Also thanks for the info on the post about this process being done plus parts needed. I have already bought most so just going to price up with TPS for the others.

I will keep you all posted as to my progress and post some pics if I get chance (or can work out how  )

James


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## matt31 (Apr 4, 2011)

You can have issues with dual mass flywheel, even if DSG. I replaced mine 3 years ago, with dual clutch. DMF is about 800£, and only available at Audi workshop. I probably have replaced dual clutch unnecessarily, but checked before by a specialist that said it had to be replaced...


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## vanp (Feb 16, 2014)

I had mine sorted by an independent just over a year ago and it's been pretty spot on since then! The chain values in VCDS haven't budged since and I have no running problems to speak of - it's really nice to just enjoy the car afterwards knowing that once it's done you can practically re-tag the engine as bullet proof and enjoy thousands more miles of care-free motoring (until the rest of the TT falls apart :lol: )

That being said, it wasn't cheap though, cost £1400 in total, which included every fluid and filter on the car being changed at the same time.

I opted not to replace the DMF or clutch at that point as the total cost was just too much and mechanic said it seemed fine, but it's been good as gold and I haven't had any issues in that area, the engine and gearbox having done about 105k miles in total now.

Worth checking what the symptoms of DMF failure on the DSG are, anyone know? I'd imagine the clutch will manifest itself in much the same way as a normal clutch, slipping? I've read that the clutch packs should last the lifetime of the car though.. a little like the timing chains were supposed to :roll:


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

DSG clutch has 9 friction plates and should last a long time compared to a single plate, but if a car is abused who knows the condition of the friction plates and steels..
I run a 15 friction plate setup as i surpassed the ability of the OEM clutchpack but i do run OEM DMF without issue.
Steve


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## rusTTy_racer (Sep 7, 2015)

DMF's do fail and not a smart move to re-fit a knackered one. Check for the amount of rotation once off, too much free movement and it's time to replace. If you have any clanking during a quick get away or if reversing this can help diagnose it.

Many of the bolts are stretch bolts (flywheel & subframe) and should not be re-used also oil seals and rubber gaskets will be hard now and not worth the risk. Check the alternator pulley freewheel too as these fail. Replacing the chains only (guess you know there are 2) and not the sprockets will only give you half the result. I am sure you think we are all old ladies here but trust me if you cock up you will have to strip it down again and that can be another 10 hours labour on the bill.

A good one is an epic drive and this engine with a DSG is an excellent combo. Hope it works out for you.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Check the condition of the intermediate sprocket as i have had to replace mine in the past as the chains have been done twice on my mota. Check hydraulic tensioner for good operation and it has to be submerged in a tub of oil and plunger operated to remove entrained air. DMF bolts are stretch style and need replacing. There is a thrust bearing that sits in the end of the crankshaft which needs checking for freedom of the race and i have replaned mine also due to resistance in freewheel.

As said this is an involved process and is a PITA.
Steve


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## edwardjames (May 24, 2016)

Hi Guys,

Just to update you as promised:

I managed to get the pin kit from a German supplier for about £25 and it was delivered very quickly.

Let me know if you need the info about the supplier.

My Mechanic has removed the sub frame and dropped the whole engine and gearbox so the motor is now out and stripped.

DMF looks ok with little play but the chains are well stretched and the cogs on the intermediate sprocket are worn and missing a couple of teeth so will be replaced.

One thing we do need a little help with is the variable valve or cam phasers as one seemed solid when the engine was first stripped but then has started to move now the oil is draining and the other seems to have quite a lot of movement.

I am adding a couple of images and as you can see, I don't think this engine has been serviced for a long time (even though the book was stamped)

Can anyone tell me what sort of movement we should expect? we plan to run a few cleaning cycles through the engine plus a couple of oil changes to try and clean everything up.

By the way, my guy managed to get the whole engine out within 5 hours which I thought was quite impressive!!


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## Jez xbx (Oct 24, 2014)

Fair play to ya for taking it on!
There is a for sale section on here so might be worth advertising once done?
I'm eternally hopeful of karma!


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

See my build thread mentioned earlier and from page 9 of this link for adjuster info..
http://www.r32oc.com/TT32.pdf

The adjusters are spring loaded and move the same amount..when building back up the adjusters need to be clocked and the chain then fitted onto the clocked adjusters.
Steve


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## edwardjames (May 24, 2016)

Hi Steve,

Thanks very much for your reply and information.

Can you explain a little more about what you mean by the adjusters being clocked when replaced?

Also as I mentioned we have far more movement on the inlet side adjuster which appears to be sloppy compared to the other. I this normal?

Let me know.

Thanks,

James


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

edwardjames said:


> Hi Steve,
> 
> Thanks very much for your reply and information.
> 
> ...


Before the chains are laid on the adjusters, turning the adjusters against the spring pre-loads the adjuster ready for operation.
The adjusters should work the same as each other when rotated by hand, if they don't then there is an issue. These adjusters move 3 or 4 teeth rotation by hand whilst the centre section of the adjuster stays fixed. The adjusters are cam specific and can't be swapped over.
Steve


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## edwardjames (May 24, 2016)

Hi Guys,

Once again thanks for all the help!!

Just a quick update: It seems that the reason we had the difference in resistance between the two adjusters is that the exhaust side had been removed and replaced whereas the inlet was still in situe. when we removed the inlet side it also became a little sloppy obviously because of lack of oil pressure.

I will keep you posted as to our progress!!

Regards,

James


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## gogs (Dec 22, 2010)

V6RUL said:


> edwardjames said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Steve,
> ...


Steve,

Is there a way of knowing these adjusters have not been preloaded?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Once the chains are removed from the adjusters the teeth will move to a non pre-load position.
Steve


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## gogs (Dec 22, 2010)

Ah ok so if this job was already done on a car would the car car run if they were in the wrong position ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

gogs said:


> Ah ok so if this job was already done on a car would the car car run if they were in the wrong position ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't know..it would be a painful disassembly to go through if it didn't run or ran badly.
Steve


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## gogs (Dec 22, 2010)

Indeed, it runs fine tbh, I just wondered if it would be noticeable if it hadn't been done

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## edwardjames (May 24, 2016)

Hi all,

Just a quick update and a little more advice if possible:

Car all done and back together, engine running fine with no flat spots (phew) but if the car is started from cold it won't fire on the first turn of the key? second time and then when warm it starts fine? The only thing I have noticed is that you can only hear the fuel pump kick in for 1/2 a second on the first attempt and then it seems to run for a couple of seconds on successful starts? 
I read that there is a small non-return valve that can get clogged on the fuel system and this allows fuel pressure to drop when cold and therefore impedes starting?
Any advice is welcome!
Also the gearbox seems to be very slightly hesitant to engage when in traffic or from start but that may be that I haven't driven a dsg before. otherwise it changes briskly on the paddles and seems to work well.
We haven't given the gearbox a service yet, so could this be the problem?

if somebody could tell me how to post images I will try and get a few to you of the progress

Once again, Thanks!!


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

edwardjames said:


> if somebody could tell me how to post images I will try and get a few to you of the progress
> Once again, Thanks!!


Hi, Click the "upload attachment" button on each reply & upload from your PC.
Hoggy.


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