# Transfer case oil seal



## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

Heyho!
Just pulled the undertray to have a look what was causing my squeaky drive belt, and give the car a good once over anyway.
I thought it was damaged pulley grooves somewhere but it turns out it's the freewheel pulley on the alternator...that's for another day...
I found a rather unpleasant looking leak at the rear of the engine, right at the propshaft coupler on the transfer box. 
It's leaking and throwing oil everywhere, including a dash a cross the exhaust downpipe (pictured)
Sooo...how big a job is this going to be?
Is this subframe off stuff or is there some miraculous way I can drag it back and get to the seal without being under there for days? :lol:
Any advice very welcome folks, 
Stay safe!


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

This comes up as Radial oil seal 09A409400, anyone had any experience at all replacing this thing?


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## macadamy (Mar 3, 2017)

Are you sure it's not running down from the rocker cover gasket? It can run down the back of the engine. And it goes everywhere.
Deffo worth a check.

Matt


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

Already sorted all oil leaks above, that's why I was pretty annoyed to find this today!
Rocker gasket and cct+half moon all done no leaks, turbo hot side silicone pipe replaced no leaks (old one was porous) top of the engine is pretty clean, it's definitely coming from this thing. 
There's a lot on vwvortex about r32s suffering from this, and how to change in situe, although I think most resort to removing the entire transfer box and replacing the seal on a bench.
I'm trying to work out what's better, buy all the seals and tackle it or buy a second hand one and hope it doesn't leak...


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## darylw357 (May 21, 2019)

I wish you better luck than I've had in stopping belt squeeks. New belt, tensioner, alternator clutch pulley and there is still a noise until the car is proper hot :?


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

Looking at the drawing it should just be prop shaft off, remove retaining nut, pull out coupling flange and then you should have good access to pop the seal out and replace.
A 2 or 3 leg puller might be needed if it's tight.


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

Cheers daryl, I'll keep you all posted if that cures that issue!

Thanks dave, I thought that's what it looked like, a few posts on vw said they needed a puller, which took half the bearing out and ended up a royal mess with grinding out the old race and replacing the bearing as well as the seal...
Im hoping by looking at this the flange should slide out and let me at the seal without ruining anything else, I've never attempted this so that's why it's question central while I prepare!
I'll buy a small puller and hopefully get it up there in situe, daft question, to get at this will I have to drop the subframe?


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

GMTTmk1 said:


> Cheers daryl, I'll keep you all posted if that cures that issue!
> 
> to get at this will I have to drop the subframe?


No idea, but if it's not in the way and there is room to get a puller in then no. 
You shouldn't have problems with pulling half the bearing out unless it's a totally shagged collapsed bearing.


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

Good call, I've read conflicting info it's a taper bearing and will separate and need renewed, but if it's not damaged I can't see how putting back together carefully would damage it.
The only thing I'm digging into is how tight the nut is (9) when replacing it (or if it matters overly) as the drawing says there's an adjustment washer underneath, and if there's any set value or if I'll get away with just making it 'tight'
Uncharted territory for me but I'm not leaving it leaking so I guess I'll find out!


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## outdoor stevie (Nov 24, 2013)

I think the main issue will be getting to the area you require as it will be tight with the exhaust in the way might be worth a look from underneath to see if you have the clearance to get the prop off and access to the bit you need!

Stevie


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

Thanks Stevie, my picture I uploaded was from underneath, the car is on ramps outside while I wait for my Corteco seal to arrive...
Couldn't justify a trip to the dealer during lockdown for the genuine part so when it arrives I hope it's the right bit!
I'll climb under tommorow and see if I can get access to undo the prop, dogbone is easy and see if I can rock the engine forward enough to undo the nut and pull the flange.
If not then it's subframe drop time and a pile of new bolts will need ordered for the steering rack and frame itself, assuming they come out with no dramas that is :roll:


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## auspicious_character (Sep 4, 2016)

I'd say you'll get it without dropping the subframe bit I do think you're going to have to drop the exhaust out as the prop runs above and there's no space to get it.
Fortunately TT Quattro exhausts are easy to whip off, easiest way i found is to undo all the mounts instead of fighting the rubbers.


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

Just had another good look underneath there to see how I would go about this and discovered there's more going on...
Halfway up the car there's a shield over the prop.
Under this shield is a joint for the prop that effectively acts as a UJ. 
There's oil and grease splattered out from underneath the heatshield. 
Meaning the UJ has blown too...
The good news is they seem to go for about £30 on ebay, should I fit one of these second hand hand shafts and pray it doesn't do the same, or has anyone refurbed these joints before?
Bentley tells you nothing apart 'buy a new one'
I dread to think what Audi would charge for that!
Side note, no way is that accessible without pulling the subframe, this is going to be a mare...


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## Ganja47 (Oct 18, 2018)

Myself and others have fitted new drive shafts from these guys https://www.jandrcvjoints.co.uk/audi-tt ... shafts-509

Good quality and brand new, no point looking for 2nd hand ones.
No need to drop subframe to fit these

Ps: sorry, just ignore me, talking about different shafts here


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## auspicious_character (Sep 4, 2016)

I've still got the prop from TT v1 haldex delete kicking about if you need one?
Yeah, second layer heat shields need to come off.


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

Thanks lads, I think I'll take you up on that if that's ok, I'll definitely need a new/used one as the more I look the worse this looksl!
I've been digging about looking for a how-to on removing it but I can't find anything definitive, how did you get yours out, and did you remove the exhaust completely?
To drop this section at the front would mean subframe down slightly, the dreaded turbo downpipe bolts and probably a new downpipe just to access it this way, unless I fight to unbolt it, remove the bolts at the back and drag it back, is that how it's done without getting tore into everything?


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

Have a look at youtube (sarah n tuned) she had trouble getting her shaft in.


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

:lol:
I've came to the conclusion I'll need to replace the prop as a whole unit, if I just buy the forward section (or rear) with the centre bearing attached, it will not be balanced to the other section and probably cause mayhem.
So it's went from budging it out the way to replace a leaking seal to a full rip out...at least I should get access to the ar5e0le that started it all a bit easier if that's the case!
If I'm replacing the entire prop, does anyone know the easiest way to do this?


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## auspicious_character (Sep 4, 2016)

Just remove it at the diff and the box.
Then drop the centre out.
I'll dig mine out for you and photograph it on weds.

Exhaust off first though.
Remember to buy more of those stupid heat shield clips.a


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## auspicious_character (Sep 4, 2016)

Audi TT propshaft.
Complete with weights.
Both sides are weighted though.


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

auspicious_character I tried to message you but I don't know if it went through, I got sorted from one of the lads nearby, I should have one in a few days, hope you didn't go through a lot of effort digging yours out sorry bud!
I'm going to get fired in tommorow and try and remove the old one, so the game plan is:
Exhaust off from the centre clamp back via mounts
Centre heatshield down
Unbolt rear coupling from diff
Unbolt front coupling from transfer case
Unbolt centre bearing and withdraw prop from case backward
Only thing I'm not sure of is will the front coupler foul on the subframe drawing it back?


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## auspicious_character (Sep 4, 2016)

I'd leave the front bit on the box for now but then I also fail to see a seal on the propshaft that could throw crap anywhere.
It's mostly solid and hollow.

I'd assess the plan until the seal has been replaced.


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

Nicked this off the Internet, it's a post about an R32 with the same issue as mine.
The centre joint is filled with driveshaft grease, and can blow out the same as cv boot.
It looks like mine has done the same, the rubber boot on the centre has blown and is throwing kack all over the underside.
Looks like it'll need pulled anyway one way or another!


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

Starting this job today, just about to head out, quick question.
Does anyone know the torque value for the output flange nut on the back of the transfer case to prop?
There is nothing online anywhere about it.
(No.9) on the drawing in page 1
I found something for a later model A3 that said it was 420NM! Can anyone help?
Thanks!


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

I've called off for now until I find an answer to this, emailed Audi to see if they know/are willing to tell me :lol: 
I know this flange sits against a bearing and will be tight to the point it runs true but isn't crushing the race, I just need the value to at least give it a chance of not disintegrating 3 months down the line and I'm in worse place than I started!
I'll update as I can, if anyone knows the value give me a shout though!


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

According to this thread, not a tt but it is a VW transfer output to prop shaft it's 350Nm
scroll down near the bottom for this -Tripod transfer box-propshaft flange centre nut: 350Nm https://www.clubgti.com/forums/index.php?threads/vw-torque-wrench-settings-thread.239902/


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

davebowk said:


> According to this thread, not a tt but it is a VW transfer output to prop shaft it's 350Nm
> scroll down near the bottom for this -Tripod transfer box-propshaft flange centre nut: 350Nm https://www.clubgti.com/forums/index.php?threads/vw-torque-wrench-settings-thread.239902/


Thanks very much!
That might just do the job, I didn't see that thread in all my digging!
It ties into what I found about the A3 (different platform but similar setup)
Looks like in this range is right anyway so I'm happy enough with that!

Not got a torque wrench that goes anywhere near that though, but I did find this...
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/0402152 ... gK7bfD_BwE


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

You will need a 4 foot scaffold tube to get that torque


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

I think I've settled on cranking it up to 350NM, and after a bit of digging it turns out the bugger is preloading the bearings inside the case, hence the mental torque values!
Two options...

I have a plan involving scaffold tube (acquired a bit a while back) that torque indicator and using the jack on the end of it (in gear with drivers through the brake rotors)

Or I could set the impact wrench to its middle setting (400Nm) and give it a good old fashioned rattle and be done with it...

I hate not being accurate but I don't want to start shearing splines or cracking gears in there...


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## TheBlueStingray (Jun 9, 2015)

I believe this is what you're looking for:

https://workshop-manuals.com/audi/t..._for_drive_flange_(left)_replacing/page_6931/

According to the next page, 350 Nm is correct.

This thread has gotten me a bit worried seeing the R32 you posted a picture off, as I seem to remember to have seen a similar oil patch underneath mine. Thought it was just old cavity wax, so that will need to be investigated now that I have the exhaust including downpipe off anyway. Think I will try to just replace the boot on mine instead of putting a used prop shaft in, as that will probably be ready to go soon as well.

I found this in my search of the new parts:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/joint/1j0598331/

A bit worrying that the boot in the pictures already looks to be deteriorating, but maybe it's just something on the surface.
Although it says no longer available, the boot, high temp grease and gasket should still be available on their own. 
I will try ordering the parts if it turns out mine needs doing. Part numbers can be found here:

http://autofans.info/audi/katalog.p...yp=229&dir_name=R&hg_ug=521&bildtafel2=521010


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

TheBlueStingray thank you very much for the info there!
It's a deep, dark rabbit hole this repair!
I ended up paying for an hour on Audi erWin to sniff out the specs they say for this and I found this that says it's 475Nm!!!
It's to do with the preload on the taper bearings inside the case, but the above value is for new bearings and crush spacer as far as I can tell...
All I want is the daft oil seal!
350nm+ will break my strong bar, it's only a 1/2''! [smiley=bigcry.gif] 
Dug around a few forums from Dodge to Land Rover and they said they just nip them around 150NM with threadlock and grease with no issues, but nowhere does it say a factory value as high as Audi!
Really want to cure this leak so I'll be going for it one way or another, might try renting a torque wrench but this is all going to happen on a driveway.
Swear words at the ready... 
As for the propshaft sorry for the worry I've caused! :lol: 
Just saw a big black splat leaking from above the heatshield, I didn't know the prop had that joint in it at the time, but it looked like CV grease, should be easy enough to repair that but I just want to drop it, fix this horrid thing and bolt her back up, and get driving! (After lockdown of course)


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

To be fair i also found that people just tighten them up and to be honest that is what i would do.
I'm a maintenance engineer and if i put 450Nm preload on a taper bearing (or any type of bearing) it would be locked up solid.
They must mean 450Nm on the crush washer to obtain the correct bearing clearance.
Just do it tight with the original crush washer and clearances should be correct and use stud lock if it makes you happier.


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

Thanks pal, I think that's what I'll do :lol: 
I've not come across this type of job before (flanges on gearboxes) and it's easy to overthink it until it's descended into brain damage! 
I'm from maintenance too so I'm confident about doing it, it was just the spec was putting me off bigtime.
I've got some threadlock too so I'll give it a touch of that on rebuild.
Thanks for the help once again, I'll get some pics up when I get into it [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

darylw357 said:


> I wish you better luck than I've had in stopping belt squeeks. New belt, tensioner, alternator clutch pulley and there is still a noise until the car is proper hot :?


No more squeaking!
Looks like the alternator pulley was causing it right enough, all good now!
What I did notice when I was swapping it out was the old belt had left a thin layer of broken ribs deep in the pulley grooves, mostly on the power steering pulley but some on the crank and cam too.
Maybe if that wasn't removed the belt could slip across the rubberised surface before it heats up and grabs again? I cleaned all the pulleys and fitted the new belt and it's been silent, maybe worth a check?


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## darylw357 (May 21, 2019)

GMTTmk1 said:


> darylw357 said:
> 
> 
> > I wish you better luck than I've had in stopping belt squeeks. New belt, tensioner, alternator clutch pulley and there is still a noise until the car is proper hot :?
> ...


That's good news !

I took my aux belt back off and started up the engine to make sure it wasn't the cambelt, luckily not, but whilst I was down there I sprayed some brake cleaner on the pulleys and gave the a/c clutch a good wiggle. I think this has solved it with mine, either the a/c clutch is wearing out or there was some crud stuck within the clutch plate. Fingers crossed it remains quiet.


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

Update!
Upon closer inspection there was no way I could get to the seal with the subframe still in place, so I've bought all the bolts from Vagbolts to drop it completely and open up the space.
While I'm in there I've decided to go for the 3'' pipewerx downpipe! My excuse to the good lady was (I'm in there anyway, and the old one could go at any moment...) :lol: 
Got all the nuts off at the top after an overnight soaking, going to try and remove the downpipe in one piece on stands (no recip saw so I'm hoping that's doable!)
And while it's out of the way completely I'll tackle the seal that started the whole saga...
Wish me luck! 8)


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

GMTTmk1 said:


> Update!
> Upon closer inspection there was no way I could get to the seal with the subframe still in place, so I've bought all the bolts from Vagbolts to drop it completely and open up the space.
> While I'm in there I've decided to go for the 3'' pipewerx downpipe! My excuse to the good lady was (I'm in there anyway, and the old one could go at any moment...) :lol:
> Got all the nuts off at the top after an overnight soaking, going to try and remove the downpipe in one piece on stands (no recip saw so I'm hoping that's doable!)
> ...


No chance of getting the old downpipe out with just dropping the subframe. I tried yesterday. Even with some cutting i still had to remove the offside drive shaft.
It might come out if you drop the steering rack a couple of inches by unbolting the clamp in the car footwell. I couldn't do this as the car was too near the wall and i couldn't open the door enough to be able to work on it.


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## silkman (Jul 29, 2004)

If I understand correctly, you're replacing the center bearing in the middle driveshaft (cardan shaft)? I've had this job done as bearing was noisy and it was a subframe out and an exhaust out job. I also remember that the Audi bearing part was mega expensive, found a matching SKF bearing part but had to buy just the boot from audi for about 35eur as the SKF boot didnt match... :?


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

Thanks for the replies lads, I'm going to tackle the removal tomorrow, the new one isn't here yet but I want to get to this seal and get that replaced!
I'm a bit weary of unbolting the steering rack from the wheel pinion, just incase I throw it way out and can't get it back again!
If I need to cut it that's fine, I think it's blowing a little bit anyway so it's probably scrap, all will be revealed tomorrow...

Silkman yes it's the cardan shaft (every days a school day, I didn't know it was called that)
It's not noisy it's just thrown a disturbing amount of grease all over the underside, but upon closer inspection the boot isn't ripped at all, no damage on the outside whatsoever...
It looks like it's got too hot at some stage and the grease has overheated and seeped through the gaps in the CV and mating flanges.
I don't know whether I should disturb it or just keep an eye on it, I was planning on opening it up and topping up the grease with some CV2 and nipping it back together but I'm not familiar with greasing propshafts and I may just clean it and hope the new sports cat doesn't get as hot as the OEM pipework and prolongs it's life from now on. Do you have any extra info on the replacement bearing?
If this is anything to go by there may be a mass of these preparing to go bad!
Watched a vid from BWS the other day and I spotted the TT he was working on had the exact same grease splatter above the cardan UJ...


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## silkman (Jul 29, 2004)

There are two things to break in the cardan shaft (actually 3):
https://audi.7zap.com/en/rdw/audi+tt+tt ... -521010/#6

Numbers in the diagram above
#12 The CV boot and joint; this comes as a replacement kit from Audi at about 250eur, you will see in the diagram that the joint assembly is not available separately but I discovered its SKF VKJA8001, its the same part used in the inner rear half axles. But the boot in the SKF kit wont work in the axle, for this you need #6 in the diagram (or reuse the old one). The cardan shaft boot only from Audi should be about 40 so not too bad. (and you keep the skf boot for your rear half axle)

If you plan to refurbish it, our cars dont have greese fittings so you need to remove the boot and pack it with grease. But how it lost the original grease if the boot is ok? :?

or
#17 the intermediate bearing. This was fine in my car so was left alone.

and also check
#4 flexible disc, this may crack. Also expensive from Audi but aftermarket parts exist (eg febi) for around 50


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

Thanks Silkman, that should be stickied somewhere, great info!

I think as the CV is directly above the 'Y' join of the two cat pipes it's managed to get too hot and liquidised the grease in there, which spat out at high speed through the metal ring where the boot clamps on, unless there's a gasket in there too?...

Update!
Disasters! :lol:

Prepped the subframe for removal with a good scoosh of penetrant last night, should have freed things off a little...

First bolt on the lower ball joint (marked all three for refit to keep alignment) snapped.
Removed both drop links, found a blown boot on one, two new ones ordered.

My main concern is a broken bolt in the steering rack (3.5 removed no bother!!)
I've got away with drilling a pilot hole and shelling out the stud until I can break it apart with a tap and chase the threads clear.
Not convinced this time though.
I've run a tap down the insert and got a thread formed again but it's a little loose fitting compared to the other 3.
Will I get away with a good dab of thread lock on the new bolt or should I helicoil this to be safe?


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

Anyone had anything similar?
I've managed to freehand drill it out pretty straight and put a new thread down it but I'm thinking of fitting a helicoil (it doesn't look as if there's enough sleeve to drill out for a locksert, or should I not tempt fate and just blast it in thread lock when I refit it?
Just trying to weigh up options here, I don't want to have to replace the rack because of one sh1tty bolt! :lol:


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## silkman (Jul 29, 2004)

If the bolt is tight when refitting I see no reason for a helicoil...


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

I was thinking that, it's a full thread I've managed to retap it's just a bit slack compared to the others. Looked like the same galvanic corrosion that fused the dogbone to the subframe.
I'll only find out when I refit the subframe...


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

Success!!
After she fought tooth and nail to try and make me give up all is finally (almost) well!
After a small tally of disasters...

2x new drop links
2x new bottom ball joints
2x new track rod ends (on the way)

A stripped steering rack bolt (sorted, thread lock and torqued to spec, drilling did the trick! 8) )
A stripped dogbone mount bolt (not sorted yet...) Might have to helicoil this, the 90 degree stretch value stripped it but I stopped as soon as I felt it go, I might get off with thread lock but I've not removed it since, I have however paint marked it to see if it even moves, if it doesn't I might just leave it alone!)

I had a crisis when I saw a massive pool of coolant about 5 minutes after I first started her, turns out I forgot to tighten the coolant cap  
Resulting in a flood of coolant from the overflow going everywhere...
Turbo outlet hose popped off slightly on the motorway during the maiden voyage and made me think I'd ruined something irreplaceable...

Propshaft flange ended up a doddle, buzzed the nut off and used a 3 legged puller to whip it off.
(NOTE) for anyone attempting this, standard downpipe must be removed, I couldn't see any way of getting to this without removing the transfer box entirely, bit after I used a recip saw and pulled the downpipe out completely there was plenty of room. With a pipewerx 3'' it actually becomes accessible without removing the downpipe or case assembly!

Apart from all the farce I did plenty of rust prevention and treatment, not the most beautiful job I've seen on here but 10x better than it was!
Pulled some engine bay trim and subframe for painting, and tidied up the arches, I can't believe how much crap was behind the liners!
Some idiot has jacked her up by the sills at somepoint, buckling them and blocking the forward drains, causing it to become a massive sh1t trap.
I'm going to try and kill the rust and repaint the damaged areas but I'll make another post for that...
(If it goes tits up I'll buy new sills, worth a shot!)

The difference in power even without a map with the sports cat is wild, up around 4-6k revs it pulls like I've never felt before, can't wait to keep chipping away at supporting mods before I get her mapped!

As always massive thanks to the forum and everyone who helped me out, honestly couldn't have managed it without you guys! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Here's some photos from the saga...


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

Good job.

I did read somewhere that the dogbone bolts are not stretch bolts so are not quarter turned. So i just tightened them tight enough for M8 bolts.


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## silkman (Jul 29, 2004)

Yes I was looking into this myself, only the 4 subframe bolts are torqued to 100Nm +1/4 turn.

















Dogbone bolts
The two that go in the subframe 25Nm (the ones on the thick part of the dogbone)
The other two 50Nm

I had found somewhere a full set of TT service manuals (for free) but cant find the link. They are 30 PDFs.


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

That might explain why the toys came out the pram when I used the torque spec I thought was right...
I was under the impression all the mount bolts are the stretch type?
I was running by this from a post a few years ago, stating two different values depending on gearbox code, I was sure mine was an 02J...
See pics attached.

I think I'll end up helicoiling the damaged thread next time I remove it, seems solid for now, it did seem strange using TTY value fasteners into an aluminium alloy gearbox.

Does that mean I don't have to renew them next time as long as they're in good condition?
There's £10 saved on the next removal, I love this forum!


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

You might get away with running a tap down the hole and fitting a longer bolt. Sure there is some room for more thread further in.

25Nm is the torque for 8.8 grade bolts so replace with normal bolts if you feel you need to. I used normal 8.8 bolts i had to replace mine as one had sheared.


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## silkman (Jul 29, 2004)

GMttmk1, you have PM.


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## darylw357 (May 21, 2019)

Great work! There is something very satisfying about just cleaning and painting.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Jesus.... what are Audi playing out.... the same page tells someone to replace a dogbone mount on O2J identical to O2M with 2 entirely different rules...

It's simply embarrassing....

Let's face it... if it feels pretty tight... and can't get tighter without breaking... then stop turning it.


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## GMTTmk1 (Oct 8, 2018)

Thanks lads!
It is satisfying giving everything a good clean and seeing the rust convertor doing it's thing, especially on the PAS lines, I'd much rather sort them now than leave it and have it blow at some very inconvenient time...
I've bought some longer bolts so when the track rod ends arrive and I've got some time I'll get it back up and get this bolt sorted, thanks for the replies on how to tackle the bugger!
I'm with you Stuartdb, I wish I'd stopped turning it when I did the initial value, I actually though to myself 'I bet this will strip' going for the 90 degree and tada... :lol:


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