# Ffth gear: tt vs z4 ... tt wins



## robt (Nov 26, 2006)

http://fifthgear.five.tv/jsp/5gmain.jsp ... ageid=1056

... close, but the better car one out in the end ... looking forward to watching the feature now (as they've kindly released the web page before the program) ...

[edit]looking at a different part of their website, looks like the z4 also wins. Very magnaminous of them I must say. Possibly also a triffle confusing. Hey ho.
http://fifthgear.five.tv/jsp/5gmain.jsp?lnk=400
[/edit]


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## Speed Racer (May 21, 2006)

Z4 won... That's the car they're giving away...


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## jam225 (Jun 24, 2003)

What a load of $hit as usual 

As for that Zippy Butler Henderson [smiley=toilet.gif]


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

Speed Racer said:


> Z4 won...


But only as a track car. And we could all buy a much better track car for Â£30k.

The Audi got their vote as the use-it-everyday road car.

I sat and watched Fifth Gear.  

But only until they'd done the TT / Z4 bit.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

TT better road car Z4 better track car.

Why didnt the race with ESP off?
Since when would a 4wd car win a power slide?
Why didnt he use LC?
Why did audi get tiff?

Still think i made the right choice tho :twisted:


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

Quite like the look of that Z4 8)


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

Dotti said:


> Quite like the look of that Z4 8)


Take your shades off then.


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## FDXmiguel (Oct 22, 2006)

..go back to the mk1 forum where you belong speedracer...you and your silly days of thunder car..


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

TTonyTT said:


> Dotti said:
> 
> 
> > Quite like the look of that Z4 8)
> ...


It's a 8) car :-*


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

FDXmiguel said:


> ..go back to the mk1 forum where you belong speedracer...you and your silly days of thunder car..


Hes not said anything other than what happened.


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## Speed Racer (May 21, 2006)

FDXmiguel said:


> ..go back to the mk1 forum where you belong speedracer...you and your silly days of thunder car..


Is that what you'd ask for if King for a day? Well, you're no King and I'll do what I want. Until then, you can piss off...


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## FDXmiguel (Oct 22, 2006)

> FDXmiguel wrote:
> ..go back to the mk1 forum where you belong speedracer...you and your silly days of thunder car..
> 
> Hes not said anything other than what happened.


No Tosh, he takes pride in this, still think the guy is pissed off because he cannot afford one :lol: and dont say that you can afford a lot more and blah blah I dont see any ferrari owners around here


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## jam225 (Jun 24, 2003)

And you can mind your language, theres a flame room for that sort of stuff :wink:

Yet another example of this forum going downhill


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## robt (Nov 26, 2006)

Shock horror - 4wd didn't power slide as well as rwd. Thought that was the general point of it.

As mentioned by other posters, if you want a Â£30k track day car why go for the z4 when there is other rather more extreme/ fun stuff around for the money.

And if you want a car you can use in real life ... buy the tt. I'm using it in real life so am plenty happy with the tt option.


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## Speed Racer (May 21, 2006)

FDXmiguel said:


> > FDXmiguel wrote:
> > ..go back to the mk1 forum where you belong speedracer...you and your silly days of thunder car..
> >
> > Hes not said anything other than what happened.
> ...


You're a sad little girl. Logic is definitely not your forte.

Stop being so emotional for crying out loud... If you don't like what I have to say, then ignore it. Thought my words were quite mono toned...

Back on subject, good thing the 2.0T wasn't up for the comparo. Would have been trounced without Quattro, and underpowered... :wink:


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## Nick225TT (Oct 13, 2004)

FDXmiguel said:


> > FDXmiguel wrote:
> > ..go back to the mk1 forum where you belong speedracer...you and your silly days of thunder car..
> >
> > Hes not said anything other than what happened.
> ...


Lets keep it about cars rather than whose got the biggest todger


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## mark88 (May 7, 2006)

They did the same test with the RS4 snd M3.....

Honestly, who gives a shit about power sliding. I hazard a guess NO-ONE who buys 4WD TT will be expecting to do any power slides.


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## Speed Racer (May 21, 2006)

Toshiba said:


> FDXmiguel said:
> 
> 
> > ..go back to the mk1 forum where you belong speedracer...you and your silly days of thunder car..
> ...


Sincerely thanks! But I will bring back the quote if you act up again! :wink:


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## koppernob (Nov 19, 2006)

I quite like the look of the Z4, much better than the Z3 which looks so dated now.


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## FDXmiguel (Oct 22, 2006)

> You're a sad little girl. Logic is definitely not your forte.
> 
> Stop being so emotional for crying out loud... If you don't like what I have to say, then ignore it. Thought my words were quite mono toned...


Logic is not my forte? I rest my case. You spend a good part of your day on a forum that refers to a car you dont like and I am the one that lacks logic? I think thats hilarious...the Z4 wining this challenge is just an interpretation as most of us believe and as always your opinion seems to differ because you are in the wrong place.
cheers


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## Speed Racer (May 21, 2006)

FDXmiguel said:


> > You're a sad little girl. Logic is definitely not your forte.
> >
> > Stop being so emotional for crying out loud... If you don't like what I have to say, then ignore it. Thought my words were quite mono toned...
> 
> ...


What I want for Christmas is for you to never reply to anything I ever write. I'll do the same for you. Deal?

This is all just entertainment. It's nothing to be emotional about...seriously.


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## FDXmiguel (Oct 22, 2006)

why do you think I would give you something for christmas. What do you want? more stickers for your car? there still a gap there above the front grille..that car looks bare naked :lol:

Just entertainment. Dont take this personally hehe Promise to take your comments more lightly..


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## snapperpete (Apr 8, 2006)

This isn't a dig at the MK1, but it shows the major leap forward the MK2 has made that it can compete with the likes of the BMW, The MK1 would have been pissed on and thats the reason I didn't buy a MK1 (just a golf in a pretty dress) but am counting down the days to getting my MK2


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## ezzie (Jul 2, 2004)

I think the only thing new from the test is how to switch off ASR and ESP.


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

ezzie said:


> I think the only thing new from the test is how to switch off ASR and ESP.


Yes, well said  :wink:


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## sheila (Oct 7, 2006)

I thought it was poor presentation by 5th Gear, they did nothing really to sell the car on its other refinements just boring round a race track, I agree the only thing I learned was about switching off the ESP, I can't understand why they didn't demonstrate the Mag Ride, the only brief mention it got was right at the begining when Tiff was talking about the spec of the car, he never explained what it was about or demonstrated it on the track!


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

must admit - i didnt know about the two settings.


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## koppernob (Nov 19, 2006)

> must admit - i didnt know about the two settings


What 2 settings I missed the first couple of minutes 'coz my stupid ex rang :evil:


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Toshiba said:


> must admit - i didnt know about the two settings.


ROFL, and you are the button specialist :lol:

"don't touch the ESP/ASR button because it's very dangerous, you could get off the road" .....LOL :wink:


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

I went out for a drive and a play as soon as i saw it.


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

it's in the DIS : ASR OFF
second time: ASR/ESP OFF


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## TTdriver (Sep 2, 2006)

snapperpete said:


> This isn't a dig at the MK1, but it shows the major leap forward the MK2 has made that it can compete with the likes of the BMW, The MK1 would have been pissed on and thats the reason I didn't buy a MK1 (just a golf in a pretty dress) but am counting down the days to getting my MK2


Take it you havent read Auto Express this week then :lol:

And i still havent seen a MK2 on the road, the Mrs has but she wasnt impressed as it was a sh--y blue colour ( her words, ex council see )


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## snapperpete (Apr 8, 2006)

TTdriver said:


> Take it you havent read Auto Express this week then :lol:


Nope...Give us a clue :?


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## sandhua1978 (Sep 11, 2006)

Dotti said:


> Quite like the look of that Z4 8)


Have to agree.. Having owed one previously i know the styling is not to everyones taste, But saw the M version of the Coupe a couple of weeks ago.. certainly made me turn around and have a 2nd look!


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## squiggel (May 16, 2006)

I must be the only one who quite enjoyed the piece, thought it was quite entertaining. Certainly better than the idiots at the cafe table giving the intro...

The guy-who-wasnt-Tiff (dunno his name) gave it to the TT, for all the sensible practical reasons at the end, and Tiff overruled him on the basis of how the z4 behaved on the (dry!) track. But I think the main message was that they are both damn good cars, with somewhat different personalities.

Charging through a flooded Scotland yesterday I reckon I've chosen the right one for me


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## jbell (May 15, 2006)

Didn't say about the launch control on the DSG either so he obviously wasn't using it.


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## Janker (Oct 27, 2006)

I thought there attempts at a power slide were useless, watch slowly and he was just locking up the wheels on purpose - surely the Quattro system should slide better than that? - or is that only if you get the Haldex lock in?

Even the misses said 'what a bunch of muppets they are compared to Top Gear!'


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## markrbooth (Sep 25, 2006)

Janker said:


> I thought there attempts at a power slide were useless, watch slowly and he was just locking up the wheels on purpose - surely the Quattro system should slide better than that? - or is that only if you get the Haldex lock in?
> 
> Even the misses said 'what a bunch of muppets they are compared to Top Gear!'


I managed to get the back end round nicely on a wet roundabout yesterday. It wasn't much, and was all very neutral (ESP/ASG?) but the back was definitely more out than the front 

Admittedly, the damn thing does grip VERY hard in the dry though.


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## mikeyinhk (Jun 5, 2006)

just goes to show, i quite liked the programme, then again i think clarksons a complete plonker, so that puts me off TG.
In terms of the piece, the RWD beamer should be better on a track, lets not get upset! beamers are great cars...if I could get my two kids in for occational trips, i may have chose it!

ps id still give her one....you guys are too fussy!


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## DonaldC (May 7, 2002)

mikeyinhk said:


> just goes to show, i quite liked the programme, then again i think clarksons a complete plonker, so that puts me off TG.
> In terms of the piece, the RWD beamer should be better on a track, lets not get upset! beamers are great cars...if I could get my two kids in for occational trips, i may have chose it!
> 
> ps id still give her one....you guys are too fussy!


...after 3 seconds she would annoy me and I usually last longer (just -before the wise cracks start) than that so she's all yours! :wink:

Z4 is a nice car and it was great watching the cars hit the apexes in the programme last night, but the scripting was poor and there was no substance to the piece.

Squiggel - the other guy was Jason Plato. Drives for Seat (audi connection) in the BTCC and is a very good driver. He's the only good presenter in the show! He should onto better and bigger things - like replacing the Stig when the time is right! :lol:


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## mikeyinhk (Jun 5, 2006)

> after 3 seconds she would annoy me and I usually last longer (just -before the wise cracks start) than that so she's all yours!


..yea but she can't speak with her mouth full!


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## DonaldC (May 7, 2002)

mikeyinhk said:


> > after 3 seconds she would annoy me and I usually last longer (just -before the wise cracks start) than that so she's all yours!
> 
> 
> ..yea but she can't speak with her mouth full!


...that would be a plus point! Anyway a zipper is what she needs! :wink:


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

Putting down, surely...


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Speed Racer said:


> Back on subject, good thing the 2.0T wasn't up for the comparo. Would have been trounced without Quattro, and underpowered... :wink:


Funny you should say that given the following quote from the article:



> The more basic 2.0 litre turbocharged engine is undoubtedly the more sensible choice, but for now the only way to get the Quattro drivetrain is by opting for the excellent V6 motor.


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## koppernob (Nov 19, 2006)

> it's in the DIS : ASR OFF
> second time: ASR/ESP OFF


I must be missing something because I can't find it in the DIS, I have a button on the centre tunnel that turns off the ASR/ESP and that shows the status in the DIS when I use it.

Maybe I should read the manual


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## Speed Racer (May 21, 2006)

sandhua1978 said:


> Dotti said:
> 
> 
> > Quite like the look of that Z4 8)
> ...


The M Coupe is a missile for sure...but the car is such a tiny toy and impractical. A real bitch to get in and out of too. Top Gear recently pushed the Z4 M Roadster around their track and it did very well. As for its road worth, they thought it a bit rough and wouldn't show the real benefit of the old M3 motor until at the track. Don't think I'd want a Z4 M for everyday driving. Same for the Z4 Coupe. Both are dedicated 2 seat sports cars. The Z4 Coupe may be the same price as the new TT 3.2, but the TT isn't trying to be a tiny sports car, but a sport coupe with real world practicality. They're both good at what they do. But only one had Quattro and DSG, and space for luggage.


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## sandhua1978 (Sep 11, 2006)

Probably agree with you.. having owed one for 12months and now having the TT. The audi is the easier to live with on a day to day basis!

Was just making the point that I thought the M version looked very aggressive on the road!


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

koppernob said:


> > it's in the DIS : ASR OFF
> > second time: ASR/ESP OFF
> 
> 
> ...


with the asr/esp on press and keep holding the button. 1st it will say ASR off then about 2secs later it will say on the DIS 'ESP OFF' and its stays on the DIS all the time. then release the button.


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## koppernob (Nov 19, 2006)

> with the asr/esp on press and keep holding the button. 1st it will say ASR off then about 2secs later it will say on the DIS 'ESP OFF' and its stays on the DIS all the time. then release the button.


So if I do that it will be easier for me to lose it on a bend and collect a tree on the way past ? 

Actually I find it quite a novelty for a car to go where I point it and the boot not try and overtake me, must be getting old.

On the way home I have a wicked 100ish degree bend, uphill, camber from kerb to centreon the entrance and centre to kerb on the exit. Best so far is 60mph, no squeal so my bottle goes before the car does, maybe I should do the Audi Driving Experience and get some training.

Coming the other way is a different matter, a Lotus Elise overcooked it last week and re-arranged 10 yards of dry stone wall. 30mph at best, doesn't help with the dead leaves all over the road either. Sure beats getting the train


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

Speed Racer said:


> The Z4 Coupe may be the same price as the new TT 3.2, but the TT isn't trying to be a tiny sports car, but a sport coupe with real world practicality. They're both good at what they do. But only one had Quattro and DSG, and space for luggage.


Perfectly put. I love the look of the Z4 (harks back to classic sports coupes) and the way it handles. But it is not practical if you plan on using it as a normal everyday car. The TT was whole heartedly the right choice for me. The fact that it keeps up with a BMW sports coupe of slightly more power just proves it is really up there with the big boys.

BTW, I'm not sure Plato would have won in the dry if Tiff's age wasn't showing show much in his slow reactions.


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## markrbooth (Sep 25, 2006)

Karcsi said:


> I'm not sure Plato would have won in the dry if Tiff's age wasn't showing show much in his slow reactions.


Yes I noticed that too. Tiff seemed very slow to react second time but still didn't seem to drop back very far. And he definitely wasn't using launch control because the TT seemed to really bog down as he tried to pull away. If he didn't know how to turn off ESP for a track test I doubt he even knew launch control existed.

What ever the results of their test they had to say the Z4 was better because they were giving one away in the competition!


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## Jimbo2 (Nov 30, 2006)

Agreed - it's easier to give away a Z4 Coupe when nobody's buying them! :lol:


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

Mk2 forum is sooooo defensive. Why?


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## markrbooth (Sep 25, 2006)

Leg said:


> Mk2 forum is sooooo defensive. Why?


I wasn't being defensive, just my opinion on the program. But of course people are gong to argue arguments for why they've just spent 30k on a car, wouldn't you.


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

That's quite scandalous though for a supposed independent program - they could more easily / cheaply get hold of a BMW so that's the car that won.

All very marginal, though. But I don't understand this fascination 5th gear have with "going sideways". WTF has that got to do with *any* of the cars they test? Either they are cars meant for the road, so you don't want to go sideways anywhere; or it is a car meant for the track as well, in which case you still don't want to go sideways as that will slow your progress. Absolutely pointless in every shape or form other than being able to fill out the programme.

Tiff didn't say anything about the MR, either. Great review folks! :roll:


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## markrbooth (Sep 25, 2006)

Karcsi said:


> I don't understand this fascination 5th gear have with "going sideways". WTF has that got to do with *any* of the cars they test? Either they are cars meant for the road, so you don't want to go sideways anywhere; or it is a car meant for the track as well, in which case you still don't want to go sideways as that will slow your progress. Absolutely pointless in every shape or form other than being able to fill out the programme.


I've come to learn it's a standard thing with all masculine motoring journalists. They only like rear wheel drive cars so they can light up the rear wheels and get the back end out. Don't get me wrong, it's extremely fun, especially when I'm out with my journo friend testing a car, but you'd never drive your own car like a twat.



Karcsi said:


> Tiff didn't say anything about the MR, either. Great review folks! :roll:


With age, Tiff has become less and less interested in the cars he drives unless they are thoroughbred racing cars. He's an extremely poor journalist IMO and only gets TV work now because of his reputation from his Top Gear days.


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## sandhua1978 (Sep 11, 2006)

Karcsi said:


> All very marginal, though. But I don't understand this fascination 5th gear have with "going sideways". WTF has that got to do with *any* of the cars they test? Either they are cars meant for the road, so you don't want to go sideways anywhere; or it is a car meant for the track as well, in which case you still don't want to go sideways as that will slow your progress. Absolutely pointless in every shape or form other than being able to fill out the programme.


There was also a big difference with the way Tiff and Plato where attacking the corner. It looked as if Tiff was coming into the corner alot faster than Plato did in the Z4. And you can see that on his first attempt where the Z4 didn't do anything at all!


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

As I thought yesterday, the only thing you can do with a 4wd car is do a 4 wheel drift, and that needs more speed (and talent) to get right - espeically on a dry track. Plato's initial efforts were rather feeble.


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## Necroscope (Apr 9, 2006)

Did anyone else think he had it in D and not S, it didnt seem to be reving much :x


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

markrbooth said:


> Karcsi said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand this fascination 5th gear have with "going sideways". WTF has that got to do with *any* of the cars they test? Either they are cars meant for the road, so you don't want to go sideways anywhere; or it is a car meant for the track as well, in which case you still don't want to go sideways as that will slow your progress. Absolutely pointless in every shape or form other than being able to fill out the programme.
> ...


You lot shouldnt be so defensive. :wink:

I think you'll find that sliding a car at rear or neutrally is not the end in itself for chassis assesment during road tests. What it does do is point towards adjustability with throttle and steering and therefore the overall chassis spohistication and finesse. ie how much fun the car is to drive. 
Track is used simply because most modern sporty cars' grip limits are too high too to do this on the road safely.

So they take to the track. Where they can establish how the cars will behave in extremis, but also how they will flow and respond to agressive inputs. (or that could equally be - emergency inputs)

No one likes a nose heavy understeerer, no matter how fast it goes, and Audi are obviously working hard to improve their models dynamics. Hence the TTii reviewing generally very well.

Like it or not the Z4 coupe does have a good chassis - hint of intial understeer, then neutral then tail out is ideal for the enthusiast, even if he/she doesnt have skill, will or balls to 'hang it out'. Not having front wheels driven usually makes for better steering feel.

But the TT isn't doing badly - looking to have more inital understeer, then neutral to understeer, but only keen to get tail out (think tighten line thru corner..) or drift neautrally if provoked by quick lift to adjust nose. Haldex and Torsen doesnt like drift and will shuffle torque F/R to stop it in quite an on/off fashion. Somene mentioned the 5th Gear RS4 drift test -where even a skilled driver like TN struggled to make car flow.

The Z4 doesnt have to do that last bit simply because it has more balance.
That doesnt make TT a loser, just coming at same problem of grip and poise, but from a different direction.

Actually 4WD with a little (but not too much) understeer is probably safer and quick enough for most safe road driving, especially in damp winter conditions and on unknown roads.

That the TT has done so well against BMW's widely recognised chassis expertise engineering skills, is great complement to Audi in raising their game.

So no winners or losers, just extra choice for us consumers.


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## DonaldC (May 7, 2002)

Good post Gary! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## Speed Racer (May 21, 2006)

When motorcycle mags do shoot out comparos...they install the same tire on all the bikes. It levels the playing field. You could take 3 equally prepared TTs with 3 different tire makes and get three different consistent lap times. That's one problem I have with Top Gear. Some cars just come with crap tires (ie, first generation TTs--ContiSports [smiley=thumbsdown.gif]). The new TT in America will get run flats. It's going to get killed in any track test with non-run flat competition.


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## Calibos (Mar 28, 2004)




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