# Think you got bad luck, try spending 12k..



## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

If you think you had a bad run with your car then wait till you hear this story.

I must have the worst luck known to any Audi.. sorry car..owner in the world. I bought a TT over a year ago and only covered 1500 miles in the space of that year. The reason being due the engine failing about 2 weeks after purchasing so i decided to go through and get a engine rebuild at the cost of £3200 at some indi in Birmingham. The car was sat at the indi for several months with more and more bad news being revealed to me along the way just bringing the costs up to something that started off at £1200 up to the final figure of £3200. However, they did a very bad job and the engine failed catastrophically so i did my research and did the right thing and called Awesome GTI. Awesome who took my car in and started work on the engine replacement from Awesome GTI's own staff, John's car along with his turbo i believe. I spent around 4k on the engine replacement by awesome along with a few extras such as FK Highsport Coilovers, 42 Draft design induction kit and a forge 008 recirculation valve. Also included in that price was some mechanical work such as track rod ends, GEO setup, trailing arms etc so the car was mechanically sweet all ready for its MOT next week. Awesome GTI have been brilliant with me, giving me time to save up large sum of money in order to pay for the car over the 6 months or so it has been there.

Within 4 days of having the car back, the turbo blown. I wasnt driving the car hard or anything but John from awesome sent my Turbo off for rebuilding and got it all fitted back for me yesterday. During testing, there seems to be another problem with oil in cylinder 3. After having a conversation with John, the car can now go either way. Fixed under warantee for the engine alone (head gasket, valve dropped etc) or i will be charged for whatever other reason to why it has failed (previous revo remap, oil starvation, driver error etc)

Awesome GTI have given me 6 months warrantee on the engine and 1 year warantee on the workmanship and any other component that was replaced, such the new fan control (as mine didnt work) and other things such as oil pump as an example.

I know however at the time, the car never overheated, the fans kicked in fine, coolant level was fine and there was no signs of this happening. Basically the turbo went bang whilst coming off a slip road joining a dual carriage way (lots of white smoke everywhere) whilst on a 500 mile return journey. The car was happily sat in 6th gear cruising at 60-70mph to conserve fuel for a majority of them miles.

Whilst i wait to hear back from Awesome GTI, whats the worst case scenario that i could be facing. I havent been able to sleep or think or function since hearing the news especially with spending close to 12k to date on a 2000 plate Audi TT 1.8t 225 with 145k on the clock.

John from Awesome GTI has by far given the best customer relationship i have encountered in my life. We have a history of emails/phone calls that go back about 6 months now and he has always gone that extra mile to get things done for me. He is a top bloke and i'm glad i dealt with him during my on going experience with Awesome to see what can be done about this matter.

However, the car is worth nothing in relation to what i've spent so far, so i really want to know just how bad this could be and what costs i could be facing as i have completely ran out of money paying for the 2 rebuilds and the purchase of the car in the first place. I am willing to sell everything i own to get my car back as its my pride and joy. I've only driven the thing for a total of maybe 20 days since ownership.

I mean i could get a phone from Awesome GTI saying something along the lines that the headgasket went, or the valves dropped, cylinder head has cracked in which then it should be covered under warantee and everything will be good again, in my world.

But if its something i just cant afford, then look out for parts in the for sale section as i will be selling what i can before scraping the car and leaving the Audi community 12k down with nothing to show for it [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## merlin c (Jan 25, 2012)

WOW! That is a horror story, don't know if I would have stuck with her that long but you never know, you've spent so much now that I can see why you feel reluctant to give up on her but sometimes you have to step back and say enough is enough. I hope its warranty work and she's back cruising soon. Fingers crossed for you... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I remember this car from when you first got it and the PMs we exchanged it's a heartbreaking chain of events you have had to endure.

I do think in this case you will be covered by Awesomes warranty so wait to see what John says I know him and he's a good bloke.


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## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

Fingers crossed for you buddy. that is a horrific chain of events :-(

Like Muntpig I remember when you first got it and what a disaster it was :-(

Charlie


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

feel really sorry for you m8, as james says above.


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## olibb (Dec 16, 2011)

That's very bad news. :twisted: how come the first company didn't foot the bill?


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## KammyTT (Jun 28, 2006)

olibb said:


> That's very bad news. :twisted: how come the first company didn't foot the bill?


My thoughts exactly! Surely they should?

Im sure you have tried though.

Really gutted for you! I fel like crying when my clutch went and cost me 1k at audi 3 months after buying mine so i have no idea what u must be feeling


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## TT SMITHY (Jan 18, 2011)

Really feel for you well done for sticking it out this long ! iv been caught out with
some pretty hefty bills nothing like yours though its a horrible feeling
when you know something major has gone your heart sinks to your stomach 

For me the TT is a bit of a love hate thing honestly worst car iv ever
had for reliability !! ..... but i just love the car

there was a study some one at work mentioned that TT was rated 3rd
worst car for reliability and break downs

by the sounds of it there has been some second rate work you have paid enough
hopefully your covered by warranty good luck with it mate


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Hey Saz, it's not just you that has been having sleepless night's. I have no idea at the minute what has happened but we will be getting to the bottom of it as soon as we can.

Thank you for your first post, it is a very honest account of where and what we have been up to, mark my words whatever the outcome it will be a honest and truthful account of exactly what is wrong with the car and the fact that i have already personally paid out just over £400 of my own money to replace the turbo i am sure is testament to that.

Just remember the engine itself was not one that was provided by Awesome, it was the one i sold from my own car that i broke for parts earlier on in the year. My own personal opinion is just one of disbelief! After everything that you had gone through previously and the amount of in depth conversations we had prior to working in your car to make sure it was a complete engine that was replaced with the questionable wiring loom too, i have no idea why an extremely well serviced 80 something k motor could do what it has done.

When the car 1st came back to us the pipes where removed from the turbo and there was an amount of oil in them, the turbo itself had slight play in the shaft so it was removed and sent away to our re conditioners who on bringing the turbo back to us just said it needed new seals and a bearing. I paid for it. We got the turbo back and fitted it back to the car, all sorted no issues and no sign's of anything untoward till we started it up.

The car sounded fine (no rattles, knocks or bangs) but there was a slight missfire and the car was just smoking. Still not a problem as this is quite common for it to take a while to clear but it didn't. On further inspection we have found that there is oil in number 3 cylinder. I am just waiting to get the cylinder head off, hopefully by the end of today to find out what has happened.

The car had been here for a long time after the engine work was carried out and had a lot more work done, each time requiring a road test. The car always drove great, no smoke, no hesitations and no fault codes!Just as perfect as it was when removed from my car. How after Saz has had the car back for 4 days we have ended up with all these problems God only knows.

Once we have the cylinder head off it will be very apparent where the failure is and what has caused it.

I will update the post as soon as i know some more,


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

A few other things worth mentioning was when the car 1st came to us before my engine was fitted we inspected the old engine to find out what the issue was with it. The failure was down to a conrod shell had come out from number 1 piston and caused the piston to travel so far up the bore it was contacting the cylinder head, the crank was also damaged beyond repair.

On completion of the engine swap on it's road test the car appeared to be overboosting, obviously this was checked and it was found the boost gauge in the car was reading incorrectly and only doing about 20psi, very safe for one of these.

Just wanted to show that we didn't just jump in blind and swap the motor without trying to get an understanding of what when wrong in the 1st place,


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## Saffy (Oct 28, 2008)

Feel for you mate, I also had to get an engine rebuild after my big bearing collapsed this year and had the turbo rebuilt the year before.
I also use Awesome who I have got to know very well over the years of my tt ownership and can honestly say I would not trust anyone else with my car and I travel down from Glasgow, they are very courteous and have always helped me out where ever possible and always honest to boot. My tt is a 2001 and I went through the same thoughts whether to break her up or get her repaired but am glad I did the latter the only downside they are costing me a small fortune in irn-bru :grin: lol. Stick with it and wait and see what they come back with in the knowledge your car is in the best of hands and they will bend over backwards to help wherever they can.


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## Saffy (Oct 28, 2008)

Forgot to say can you not sue the other indi, I am sure if you need a report on their bad work John would be able to get you one


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## hooley (Dec 30, 2008)

I spent £14k on a dog 

Literally a pooch. Was very ill, but all better now
Not really helping you much other than it might make you feel a little better knowing that I got nothing out of this and I can not even sell the dog to recoup some of the money.

I can recommend you a good Vet if you want though... :lol: :lol:

J


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

An unfortunate series of events indeed. I'm sure John will get to the bottom of it for you - as you say, very good on looking after customers. You'll get there in the end and it will be reliable I'm sure.


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## Brendanb86 (Feb 12, 2011)

Fair play to you for persevering with it, I would have given up after the first engine rebuild I think! Hope it all gets sorted with no or very little expense.



hooley said:


> I spent £14k on a dog
> 
> Literally a pooch. Was very ill, but all better now
> Not really helping you much other than it might make you feel a little better knowing that I got nothing out of this and I can not even sell the dog to recoup some of the money.
> ...


I can recommend a good pet insurance company!


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## olibb (Dec 16, 2011)

Brendanb86 said:


> Fair play to you for persevering with it, I would have given up after the first engine rebuild I think! Hope it all gets sorted with no or very little expense.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

WOW, thats terrible new..

It's amazing to see how some of these cars get very little punishment and fail in spectacular fashion, where as others are abused and should have blown up years ago..(mine being one of the latter)

Very good chaps at awesome, They know my motor inside out, and whilst she has survived everything i throw at her. the work that goes into the car from the awesome staff is second to none.. my car admitantly always seems to be a pain to work on, But they always get it sorted for me...

Shocked about Johns engine, seemed to be good runner when it was in his car...

Good luck with it... and rest assured your in safe hands !!


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## Hark (Aug 23, 2007)

Can't you sue the first company?

Awful lot of money gone in to your poor car.


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

It is not pretty, basically there has not been any kind of failure as such and something has happened to cause cylinder number 3 to melt by detonation / pinking. Basically something has happened to make the engine run lean and melt this cylinder! We now have to determine exactly what the cause of this is. I have an engine specialist who is coming over to inspect the damage, hopefully tomorrow to determine what will be needed to repair it.

Everything is still a little bit up in the air at the minute and hopefully we will be able to come up with a conclusion very soon.

Here are the pics as soon as the head came off with no damage,










And the cylinder block, note the piston that has meted along the top edge,










A lot of things to be checking next, mainly on the fuel side, make sure the pump is ok and delivering the right pressure, fuel filter flow not restricted, no air leaks (manifold, gasket, hoses to the manifold etc) injectors (more than likely sent away to be flow tested) and i am sure quite a few other things too, mapping is another thing that we will need to look in to. We have been informed that it is Revo so as far as i am concerned with the amount of vehicles we have put it on i can not see this to be an issue at all, Revo is a very good product on the TT as many of you can verify,

I will post more when there is some more information,


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

I'm shocked, reason being is i took the head off a 180tt yesterday with suspected headgasket damage as it was down on 2 cylinders to be presented with this!

See any similarities...

Huge amount of Knock, and a melted piston....


















Now I think that either the knock sensor has failed or the injector bunged up.. I removed the ECU as well and am going to pull the map off it tonight to see whether it's had the fuelling adjusted for the extra boost.

Out of interest was the engine the same as the one removed from the other car ie where the engine codes the same from your car into the Op's?


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

I have never known a knock sensor to fail apart from R32's where they become to sensitive. Although it's job is to prevent what has failed here. But never say never and dismiss anything. I do agree that an injector seems to be the most likely cause at this minute in time,

The engine in the car originally was a 210 APX i believe and the replacement was a 225 BAM,


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

That doesn't look very good at all but hopefully the matter will be resolved. As for the engine, the original engine was a APX and the transplant engine was a BAM. I was told that there should be no difference in terms of engine so the BAM will fit straight in.

I'm sure once John has the engine specialist to overlook the engine, we will know more which may help you with yours too.


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## kazinak (Mar 23, 2010)

any plans to sell it any time soon


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## cr4igj tt (May 9, 2012)

I am absolutely astonished..... frightens the life out of me that kind of thing !!!!!!!!


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

I don't really want to sell the car, too much time, money and effort has gone into it, its my pride and joy


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## Hark (Aug 23, 2007)

sazismail said:


> I don't really want to sell the car, too much time, money and effort has gone into it, its my pride and joy


Ye but TTs are two a penny on auto trader. You could have bought two more for the cost of the rebuilds so far.


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

That is true, but when you have a passion for something, and when youbspent as much as I have on a car, its pointless giving up now as I will never get the money back.


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## kazinak (Mar 23, 2010)

Hark said:


> sazismail said:
> 
> 
> > I don't really want to sell the car, too much time, money and effort has gone into it, its my pride and joy
> ...


+1 
And if I remember correct he paid around £3000 and is just shows what you can get for that price

Send from my Android using Tapatalk 2


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## 1sttt (Nov 6, 2011)

No you won't get your money back mate but you will be rid of what to me would be a big thorn in the side.
I would not put any more money in to this car. You have to learn to say enough is enough. As others have said you could have brought two cars for the costofyour repairs .


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

Cylinder 3 is the closest to the turbo and has the shortest runner as well, if any cylinder is going to get huge back pressure it'll be cylinder 3 and the fact the piston melt on the exhaust side in both cases seems to suggest the heat from the exhaust possibly contributed . Bad fuelling, over timing as cf's higher than 12, possibly no knock detection, spikey map, bad lambda sensor all I guess can add up to ping and melting pistons, fact it's on no.3 I suggest was just compounded by exhaust back pressure.


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

s3tt said:


> Cylinder 3 is the closest to the turbo and has the shortest runner as well, if any cylinder is going to get huge back pressure it'll be cylinder 3 and the fact the piston melt on the exhaust side in both cases seems to suggest the heat from the exhaust possibly contributed . Bad fuelling, over timing as cf's higher than 12, possibly no knock detection, spikey map, bad lambda sensor all I guess can add up to ping and melting pistons, fact it's on no.3 I suggest was just compounded by exhaust back pressure.


This could be the case, as the turbo did go out with a bang and lots of white smoke came out the exhaust. Personally i think the turbo failure could of caused the problem on cylinder 3 as there is no other explanation to why all the other components are fine and working correctly.


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

kazinak said:


> Hark said:
> 
> 
> > sazismail said:
> ...


Thats right, i did pay around 3k for the car, this was in the top 10 cheapest TT's around at the time of purchase and that just shows what you can get for that money. To be honest with you, i much rather spend the extra and have a solid car with everything at piece of mind without thinking about the previous history of the car. Its not just the engine that has been replaced, i also spent a lot of money looking over these issues too through Awesome GTI:

Front wishbone bushes replaced

Rear trailing arms replaced

Both inner tie arms replaced

Various faults in ABS system + ESP - sorted

Xenon light level sensors

GEO (4 wheel alignment)

Awesome Supplied and fitted FK Highsport coil over suspension

Polished rocker cover, charge pipe and oil cap,

Awesome Supplied and fitted Forge 008 dv

Awesome Supplied and fitted the 42 Draft design Induction kit

and the list goes on..

Its such a silly idea to give up on the car when i'm so close to achieving what i want and that is a mechanically sound Audi TT.

Once that is out the way, i will be able to enjoy a car i and awesome have been so involved and patient with and that to me is something worth perusing without just giving up on it all together and put all the hard work to waste especially on Awesome's side.


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## Taylortony (Feb 10, 2012)

I hope you get there soon, totally agree, you are so far into it now you should enjoy it, hopefully you will end up with a reliable car that will last you a good while into the future.


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## GroverUK (Dec 2, 2010)

Absolutely gutted for you mate. Im not joking that when i read your post i felt a bit sick so what you must feel like i have no idea. I really hope it gets sorted for you without you having to spend any more money.
I really dont agree with people saying get rid. I really dont see what that achieves. It wouldn't give you back the money you have spent on it and you would have to spend even more on a new car anyway, whats the guarantee that the new car is any better. 
When you spend that kind of money fixing your car you assume that when its done then its going to be a good reliable car afterwards for a reasonable amount of time and you think "job done lets put that behind us". You dont think sell it!

I really hope this comes to a happy outcome for you!


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

sazismail said:


> s3tt said:
> 
> 
> > Cylinder 3 is the closest to the turbo and has the shortest runner as well, if any cylinder is going to get huge back pressure it'll be cylinder 3 and the fact the piston melt on the exhaust side in both cases seems to suggest the heat from the exhaust possibly contributed . Bad fuelling, over timing as cf's higher than 12, possibly no knock detection, spikey map, bad lambda sensor all I guess can add up to ping and melting pistons, fact it's on no.3 I suggest was just compounded by exhaust back pressure.
> ...


If it helps I'll happily donate a set of pistons and rods if needed, obviously used but in good condition.

To be honest a blown turbo isn't going to cause that, there's been some serious heat build up in there!


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

s3tt said:


> sazismail said:
> 
> 
> > s3tt said:
> ...


Thats very generous of you, i will let John come back with the outcome as it could be under warantee through Awesome, especially if the injectors were clogged, valve has dropped or anything engine related as i have 6 months warantee on the engine. With no signs of failure anywhere else in terms of components, it looks like it could be swaying to be repaired under warantee. But until then, just got to hold on tight and hope that no other costs are involved, if needed, then John will be the best person to speak to about any donations if not covered under warantee. Your very kind!


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

GroverUK said:


> Absolutely gutted for you mate. Im not joking that when i read your post i felt a bit sick so what you must feel like i have no idea. I really hope it gets sorted for you without you having to spend any more money.
> I really dont agree with people saying get rid. I really dont see what that achieves. It wouldn't give you back the money you have spent on it and you would have to spend even more on a new car anyway, whats the guarantee that the new car is any better.
> When you spend that kind of money fixing your car you assume that when its done then its going to be a good reliable car afterwards for a reasonable amount of time and you think "job done lets put that behind us". You dont think sell it!
> 
> I really hope this comes to a happy outcome for you!


Thats the whole idea with the amount of money that has gone into this build. Its not a car i want to keep for a few months but a car i want to keep as long as i can. There has been a lot of history between myself and the car and it will be something i would love to keep for life, even in years to come, something to just keep in my garage as there is no way i would ever recoup even half of what i spent on the car so far. Thank you for your messages, hopefully you will get to see me at some of the TT owners club meets, i was looking forward to going to ATIP this weekend, but this looks like its going to be a miss. I would like to eventually put the names to faces of people who have been giving me advice and wishing me the best through the past year of ownership. For a car that has only covered 2500 miles in a year, it hasn't even seen a car show or meet throughout its life, so it will be nice to actually get out there and show off the finished result i have in mind.


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## st3v3 (Apr 9, 2007)

In one sentence-A labour of love...


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

st3v3 said:


> In one sentence-A labour of love...


Without a doubt and I hope it has a happy ending mate


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

Thank you very much for all the comments. Its hard to explain in writing but i have a love for this car and i'm not going to just let it go. Awesome have played a huge part in getting to the stage we are at now and i'm not going to just turn all the hard work to nothing. Even Audi will think i'm mad for the commitment and dedication i have towards this car but when its someone's pride and joy and when you have a vision in your head that you want to accomplish, theirs only one way to get there and that is to keep on going. I'm the kind of idiot that will be outside cleaning his car every morning and night whether its raining, snowing or hailing making the neighbours think i have some serious car obsession issues :lol:


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## TT SMITHY (Jan 18, 2011)

hooley said:


> I spent £14k on a dog
> 
> I can not even sell the dog to recoup some of the money.
> 
> J


You could always take him down the local Kebab house they may give you a few quid
for him 

Labour of love yeah had my front roll bar fitted today and noticed 
another power steering leak 2nd one in 6 months i absolutely love it ! :x 
:lol:


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## Taylortony (Feb 10, 2012)

£14 k on a dog? As in a four legged mutt? Blimey, which one of you is barking is hard to decide.....

Only joking, I can understand it, I know from another forum of some peeps that fed a stray dog in the Maldives that was friendly, after their holiday they missed the mutt, and the following years holiday looked for him and actually found him near the end of their hols looking the worse for wear, they had him flown back, 6 months quarantine and lots of vets bills later they have a friend for life and they never regretted spending a penny of the thousands it cost.


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## narbett (Jul 20, 2010)

What bad luck


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

Hopefully today, there will be more of a insight to what happened to cause this as there is no apparant component failure. I am glad that I am in good hands though with Awesome dealing with the matter. So its just a matter of waiting to see what the outcome is, its such a shame as I'm missing this lovely weather that only seems to come when my cars off the road


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

Well I stripped my engine today. Water pump was in a million pieces, what was left had melted as well and temp sensor was completely goosed! Likely hood in my case was the water pump broke, engine over heated and causing engine to get too hot, probably caused piston to melt and detonation to occur cause of the sill high temps. It had probably been driven like than for ages! Cambelt was changed by Audi 10k ago but I guess the water pump wasn't done .

Hope they get to the bottom of your issues.


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## hooley (Dec 30, 2008)

Taylortony said:


> £14 k on a dog? As in a four legged mutt? Blimey, which one of you is barking is hard to decide....


Definately me. 
Mutt is fast asleep snoring. Doesn't know she had a 1% chance of survival. 
But survived. Hope your car has better odds.

J

Posted from my iPlop...


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

Very catestrophic failure there.. was at awesome yesterday and had a butchers at the engine. enough to make you CRY [smiley=bigcry.gif]

couple of things following some comments. AND THESE ARE JUST MY THOUGHTS so don't go easy on me... :?

Firstly don't belive the turbo blow did this. The head is perfectly intact, and the likelyhood of something from the turbo heading down the charge pipes and making it's way into the cylinder without damaging a valve is very unlikely. Perhaps the turbo overboosted but then thats a ECU issue (or N75 explained in the P.S)

In addition on another motor i had a similar thing where the spark plug broke off and did a similal thing. but it did manage to mangle a valve on it's way. so not very likely in that case either,(but the damage was identical)

It could be a failed oil spray jet for that piston. could have blocked up.. here are bits floating about n VWvortex regarding these jets. Maybe even a slight bend on a rod if a misfire has occoured, causing it to catch the jet. (Although you can hear this, and there a video on youtube.. very distinct noise)

Moving on to the bigger picture though this is the 3rd engine the motor has gone through.  I would imagine each time the knock sensor from the donner engine has been used so 3 differen't knock sensors have been in. so would rule that out. You really need to be looking at what hasn't been changed on the car during these rebuilds. [smiley=book2.gif] as i can't belive you've had 3 duff engines... more likely another issue with the car.... :?

Map would be the first port of call.. REVO is a great map.. I run it and mine is turned right up.. (boost 9, timming 7) so assuming you have mods that are recommended with such levels it "should" be fine. Unless it's a old revo map which i cannot comment on. are you 100% sure it's a REVO????

If you suspect it's a custom map, maybe fueling had been mapped for a different fueling, could be a 4bar FPR map, some custom mappers map to 4bar pressure, if you reduce it to 3bar in theory you have some adaptation for the ECU to correct this, but maybe not enough if duty cycle has been changed. could be something to explain the reoccurance of engine failures.

Injectors are another suspect, again very doubtful as in the wider picture it could well have had 3 sets of injectors. could be a coincidence and it is a isolated failure to that engine (hense the flow testing some suggested)

Weakness in the fuel pump, maybe hitting lean conditions on full boost. your looking at 3bar at 0pressure (or 4bar) and then 1bar of fuel per 1bar of pressure. running 2bar you should be getting 5bar or 6bar of fuel pressure. perhaps clogged filter or dying pump has caused this. It could explain the failure with all engines.

Also i belive the APX engines don't have the secondary lamber probe. and the Bam does, hense it can pull back the engine when it detects a discrepency. usually this is heat related and will restrict and pull back when temps rise.. (i noticed this very quickly when the water meth ran out at castle combe and temps rose, the car felt as if it became slugish) Obviously there is nothing you can do about this as your wiring loom won't allow it, and plenty of APX engines survive fine.

so that's where you are. alot of possabilities but it's very hard to look back and find a cause if it's not obvious now, the inability to log the car and check everything out has gone because the damage has been done !! [smiley=bigcry.gif]

Hope that Helps. I've included a P.S below, which i'm hoping someone will comment on, I only know what i've been told by people who have tried it... :?

:?: P.S i noticed you had a upgraded N75 (brown one) whats the reason for this?? I heard that these created awful boost spikes and even kicked the cars into limp mode, Big syd had one on the QS for a week and removed it due to this issue. perhaps the APX engine also cannont throw the car into limp???? not sure on this one though !!!!!  i just know it's a part i steered well clear of and replaced with a new standard one on my own car. :?

in theory if the above is correct then the N75 may have overboosted the tubo, and leaned the car out, in turn the lack of a secondary sensor meant the car could not regulate the temp cased by the lean and ended up with huge heat..in effect melting a piston.

[smiley=book2.gif] The biggest thing to NOTE is the BAM engine had alot more safety features built in than the APX to protect the car. a bad map on a APX is obviously alot worse than a bad map on a BAM.. even though you have a BAM engine your running APX loom and ECU hense your still restricted on the engine safety side.... [smiley=bomb.gif]

Now time to Discuss, [smiley=gossip.gif]


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> Very catestrophic failure there.. was at awesome yesterday and had a butchers at the engine. enough to make you CRY [smiley=bigcry.gif]
> 
> couple of things following some comments. AND THESE ARE JUST MY THOUGHTS so don't go easy on me... :?
> 
> ...


Hope that Helps. I've included a P.S below, which i'm hoping someone will comment on, I only know what i've been told by people who have tried it... :?

:?: P.S i noticed you had a upgraded N75 (brown one) whats the reason for this?? I heard that these created awful boost spikes and even kicked the cars into limp mode, Big syd had one on the QS for a week and removed it due to this issue. perhaps the APX engine also cannot throw the car into limp???? not sure on this one though !!!!!  i just know it's a part i steered well clear of and replaced with a new standard one on my own car. :?

in theory if the above is correct then the N75 may have overboosted the tubo, and leaned the car out, in turn the lack of a secondary sensor meant the car could not regulate the temp cased by the lean and ended up with huge heat..in effect melting a piston.

*As for the N75 valve, i have no idea what this is, i know roughly what its function is and where it is located but this came from the engine transplant as my original one was not brown i believe, so this was installed by awesome gti. I could be wrong but i was under the assumption that everything that shoudlnt be/broken on the car will be replaced.

So i just let Awesome deal with the case choosing what needed to be replaced and what didnt so this included N75 valve and fuel pump and anything they came across that needed changing. I'm sure they know what they are doing so i didnt question what individual parts got replaced as i had access and paid for anything required basically in Johns car.

The original message from John quotes "I was basically going to give you everything from under the bonnet off my car to get you on the road (including the pas pump) and keep everything off your car that is removed. If you need the loom that wasn't included but i will if it needs to be."

I dont even think the engine specialist that is coming over will be able to determine what went wrong, because there are no deciding factors to where awesome can point there finger at a particular part within the engine bay and say it was down to that. (unless this n75 valve had some say in the matter) I believe the team at awesome would of been able to diagnose such a failure if it was down to a particular component

I would like to say that oil levels in the car are checked every morning before i set off and then again later on in the day along with coolant etc as i was advised by John to just check these from time to time but i was over cautious and checked these 2 to 3 times a day. The car has also never increased in engine temperature even when this happened.

Hopefully though, it will get sorted out through Awesome and we can get to the bottom of this. RIght now at this stage though, there seems to be no explanation especially with everything else in the car appearing to be perfectly fine.

*


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

We can all question and requestion what it comes down to is are Awesome going to do the work
under the warranty that the important bit at the end of the day.


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

so the first rebuild was for no other reason than you fancied a rebuild?? and not down to a failure??

well i'm glad you know it's revo. and at stage #1 you should have no issues at all... just so you know and i am aware you probably would have been in the same situation regardless but just because you have a BAM loom to match the BAM engine, doesn't mean the APX ECU monitors the things the BAM ECU does.. as said wouldn't have stopped this from occouring.

I'm a regular at awesome and wouldn't trust anyone else with my car.. i can't for 1second imagine this being a issue with fitment or johns origional engine. hence i was looking elsewhere that is origional.

lets just hope it wasn't a "REVO" map by their lemiwinks software http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=192036&hilit=+Own+Map tjhis allowed people to change settings and map their own car... as seen on the thread, not great if you get it wrong... but if your heading back to stock you should be ok.. I know awesome no longer do REVO. but perhaps if it is a revo map a SPS switch would identify it and let you know if it is a reputable REVO map, or the prevous owner who's mapped it via REVO's Lemmiwinks...(if the switch doesn't read the REVO)

just to Clarify when i was talking about heat i wasn't refering to water temp on your dash.. i was talking cylinder temp, due to the friction of a unlubricated piston. (hence it melted) also the oil level will have not have a bearing on a blocked sprayer.. as the level and spray will be fine on all other cylinders..except the one that blocked. It's evidnent that the cylinder got HOT.. how it got hot is thequestion...

Your a braver man than me... i couldn't trust the car now... not unless i knew exactly what had gone wrong... Hope you get it back and enjoy it.. i know i'd always have a niggle when i put my right foot down !!


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

tony_rigby_uk said:



> so the first rebuild was for no other reason than you fancied a rebuild?? and not down to a failure??
> 
> *Pretty much yeah, it wasnt running perfect anyway as thats why i got the car cheap, and with it having no MOT or TAX, i knew it needed work, but i liked a challenge and to be honest with you, i like to have a rebuild done to any car i buy just so i know its been done and i can vouch for its history. Every car i've owned had a rebuild within a month of owning it, regardless of condition as i like to get that out of the way for my own piece of mind. *
> 
> ...


*
So much money and time has gone into the car, so to me, its one hell of a project, i just hope that i will be able to soon enjoy the outcomes of the car, i dont even drive my cars hard at all, i just enjoy the comfort of driving and the potential of the car of which in time will come bit by bit*


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## ViperOneZero (Sep 4, 2008)

Have you asked the local priest to look in to the matter?

In my younger days I went through 2 clutches and 3 gearboxes in 6 months.. I know the feeling of financial hardship when it comes to cars!

best of luck with the future of this TT


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## SonyVaio (Jul 25, 2012)

I have seen 2 x Volvo T5's with exact same type of damage.

In the case of Volvo's they had the same hybrid turbo upgrade by the same garage and were supplied custom maps to go with it. One engine had a motronic 4.4 and the other engine an ME7 ECU a bit like the difference for an APX and BAM I guess? Anyway the Volvo with the ME7 had better self diagnosics built in and on full boost it dumped the custom map and reverted to an inbuilt safe map. Unfortunately the 4.4 didn't have the inbuilt safety and the damage was exact same as is shown in this thread. The ME7 car did suffer damage but it was fixable.

Basically the map itself was very badly written and the car was running too lean and caused the failure. If anyone is interested here is a link to the epic storey - LINKY!

Pictures are on page 3.


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## GroverUK (Dec 2, 2010)

You say your 100% sure its a revo map as "thats what the previous owner told you". Is there any way of pluging the car in and pulling the map up to make sure it was definitely revo. In my experience people lie! After reading the volvo story (which took a while, could'nt you have found a smaller font mate :wink: ) a bad custom map would certainly answer a few questions!


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

GroverUK said:


> You say your 100% sure its a revo map as "thats what the previous owner told you". Is there any way of pluging the car in and pulling the map up to make sure it was definitely revo. In my experience people lie! After reading the volvo story (which took a while, could'nt you have found a smaller font mate :wink: ) a bad custom map would certainly answer a few questions!


The car was purchased from the user 'denimblue225' He had R8 reps in silver, some of you may dealt with him before or evenknow the owner. .I private messaged the owner about the car a year ago and he told me it was a revo stage one map , that is all I know.


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

*John mentioned that in the end he also gave me his wiring loom so it wasnt running through the old APX wiring loom but the new BAM wiring loom*.

So if the Bam wiring loom was fitted to you your car was the ECU changed as well? As the original APX ecu wouldn't be fully compatible with the BAM loom.


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

s3tt said:


> *John mentioned that in the end he also gave me his wiring loom so it wasnt running through the old APX wiring loom but the new BAM wiring loom*.
> 
> So if the Bam wiring loom was fitted to you your car was the ECU changed as well? As the original APX ecu wouldn't be fully compatible with the BAM loom.


I don't think Awesome used the BAM ecu with the build as I was told that there was no difference in terms of ecu as mine would be compatible.


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

You said

*John mentioned that in the end he also gave me his wiring loom so it wasnt running through the old APX wiring loom but the new BAM wiring loom*

So this implies they fitted the BAM loom but ran your old APX ecu.. This I guarentee is not compatible. Even if they changed the all the sensors your old ECU doesn't have EGT or wideband and will not work properly. I suggest you get confirmation of this as if that's the case I think it may be the route of your issue.. I doubt very much though they would have done this but it's worth checking.....


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

s3tt said:


> You said
> 
> *John mentioned that in the end he also gave me his wiring loom so it wasnt running through the old APX wiring loom but the new BAM wiring loom*
> 
> So this implies they fitted the BAM loom but ran your old APX ecu.. This I guarentee is not compatible. Even if they changed the all the sensors your old ECU doesn't have EGT or wideband and will not work properly. I suggest you get confirmation of this as if that's the case I think it may be the route of your issue.. I doubt very much though they would have done this but it's worth checking.....


I dont think that the ecu was changed as i believe John sold this seperate to the engine. I was never made aware that there was any differences in ecu's and i only learned that there was different engine codes for the TT each with their own slight differences.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

you said:
Pretty much yeah, it wasnt running perfect anyway as thats why i got the car cheap, and with it having no MOT or TAX, i knew it needed work, but i liked a challenge and to be honest with you, i like to have a rebuild done to any car i buy just so i know its been done and i can vouch for its history. Every car i've owned had a rebuild within a month of owning it, regardless of condition as i like to get that out of the way for my own piece of mind.

you have a rebuild done to every vehicle within a month or so on all cars...........so then you know to look out for a proper rebuild company not cowboys as it appears you have used.........sorry if i am critical, but its how it appears you have just picked a number from the phone book and oh they will do


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

Definately worth asking what was fitted..


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## ragnar (Oct 1, 2011)

Gazzer said:


> you said:
> Pretty much yeah, it wasnt running perfect anyway as thats why i got the car cheap, and with it having no MOT or TAX, i knew it needed work, but i liked a challenge and to be honest with you, i like to have a rebuild done to any car i buy just so i know its been done and i can vouch for its history. Every car i've owned had a rebuild within a month of owning it, regardless of condition as i like to get that out of the way for my own piece of mind.
> 
> you have a rebuild done to every vehicle within a month or so on all cars...........so then you know to look out for a proper rebuild company not cowboys as it appears you have used.........sorry if i am critical, but its how it appears you have just picked a number from the phone book and oh they will do


 :? 
I have to admit that this went through my mind as well. If you have had an engine re-build on several cars in the past, one would think you have found a reliable firm to do it; or, if you've just moved to the area, at least have picked up some experience regarding what to look for in an engine re-build business? Like Gazzer, I don't want to come across as critical, and I'm really sorry you've had so much trouble with your TT. But how did you choose the engine rebuilder that you first went to?


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

ragnar said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > you said:
> ...


The first engine rebuilder was found through ebay, i admit i did not do any research on the garage and just went for it because it was the cheapest option as i was limited to funds.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

lol..........sorry m8 but limited to funds and then post a topic on spending 12k? i cannot see any logic in your thought process at all in how you were going about this. it is almost as if you were bumbaling along blindly, and if after you say you have done this with every car, then sorry m8ee but you deserved to have your wallet raped by the brum bunch.


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## GroverUK (Dec 2, 2010)

Give the lad a break! To me its kind of missing the point now. It just seems so sad that we now live in a age where you cant hand over your hard earned cash for a service and expect it to be done. Im well aware that this is the case now, but its the unscrupulous bastards that will happily rip off honest hard working people that should be under fire here!


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

Gazzer said:


> lol..........sorry m8 but limited to funds and then post a topic on spending 12k? i cannot see any logic in your thought process at all in how you were going about this. it is almost as if you were bumbaling along blindly, and if after you say you have done this with every car, then sorry m8ee but you deserved to have your wallet raped by the brum bunch.


limited funds as i just spent all my money on buying the car outright, i just didnt have another few thousand spare but still managed to pay for the £3200 rebuild first time. I was a student at the time i bought the car, and now its got to the point where i will throw at it what i ever it needs regardless of cost to get where i want to be.


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## TT SMITHY (Jan 18, 2011)

personally when it comes to any rebuild there noway you should skimp on anything
i would never take anywhere without at least some sort of recommendation 
for a bottom end rebuild TSR performance sell blocks on exchange 1.9 to 2.0
with forged rods and pistons and if they fit this for you come with unlimited
milage 12 month warranty that shows how confident they are in there work


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## ades tt 180 (Jun 19, 2011)

Take no notice of the critics....whats the latest with the motor?...do you know if youve got to pay to get it fixed yet?


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

sazismail said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > lol..........sorry m8 but limited to funds and then post a topic on spending 12k? i cannot see any logic in your thought process at all in how you were going about this. it is almost as if you were bumbaling along blindly, and if after you say you have done this with every car, then sorry m8ee but you deserved to have your wallet raped by the brum bunch.
> ...


sorry m8, it was bad of me to be so sarcastic in the misfortune you find yourself with this car, it was just how you put it that made me think why why why..........plenty of guys on here have first hand knowledge on how to get over these problems and john at awesome is a good guy so i am sure you are in good hands in that regard.


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## TT SMITHY (Jan 18, 2011)

ades tt 180 said:


> Take no notice of the critics....whats the latest with the motor?...do you know if youve got to pay to get it fixed yet?


Hang on a sec take no notice ? doesnt look like he has spending 12k not personal digs at him
but maybe people can learn from this i do feel sorry for him and fair play to him sticking it
out until he gets it right with his motor hopefully he wont have to pay any more money out
shocking bad luck


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## ades tt 180 (Jun 19, 2011)

TT SMITHY said:


> ades tt 180 said:
> 
> 
> > Take no notice of the critics....whats the latest with the motor?...do you know if youve got to pay to get it fixed yet?
> ...


Critisising the bloke aint gonna get his car fixed or get his money back...


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

I believe were going off topic here a little bit, the fact i spent 12k on a car is not really the concern but whether i will get the car back and whether it will be fixed under warantee. As Awesome could not find any immediate faults, with any of the componenets nor have an explanation to what happened, i'm just hoping that it will get fixed, ecu compatibility is checked, and the knock sensor is checked in terms of having the right one. As a BAM one wouldnt work with a APX one. Hopefully they will be able to get to the bottom of this failure but until the start of this week, i wouldnt know where were at.


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## boo:) (Jul 31, 2012)

this thread is
1.scary
2.heart breaking
3.scary again 

hope everything gets sorted


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## TT SMITHY (Jan 18, 2011)

sazismail said:


> I believe were going off topic here a little bit, the fact i spent 12k on a car is not really the concern but whether i will get the car back and whether it will be fixed under warantee. As Awesome could not find any immediate faults, with any of the componenets nor have an explanation to what happened, i'm just hoping that it will get fixed, ecu compatibility is checked, and the knock sensor is checked in terms of having the right one. As a BAM one wouldnt work with a APX one. Hopefully they will be able to get to the bottom of this failure but until the start of this week, i wouldnt know where were at.


Strange hope you will find the answer i wonder what sort of checks are done when fitting an engine
is it install the engine turn the key trip round the block yep it works or if they do some logging runs 
to see if every thing is as it should be ie fueling etc....


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

TT SMITHY said:


> sazismail said:
> 
> 
> > I believe were going off topic here a little bit, the fact i spent 12k on a car is not really the concern but whether i will get the car back and whether it will be fixed under warantee. As Awesome could not find any immediate faults, with any of the componenets nor have an explanation to what happened, i'm just hoping that it will get fixed, ecu compatibility is checked, and the knock sensor is checked in terms of having the right one. As a BAM one wouldnt work with a APX one. Hopefully they will be able to get to the bottom of this failure but until the start of this week, i wouldnt know where were at.
> ...


I can't believe they wouldn't have have done some logging before the car was handed back.

A look at vagcom before , during and after a run will very quickly tell you if everything is ok. Checking Boost, timing, knock control and Lamda will instantly tell you if you have an issue, along with any fault codes. These would be very apparent if you had any incompatibilty issues fitting a BAM to an APX.

But you need to know what to look for! Something simple like seeing 0 Cf's on a log/run doesn't necissarily tell you anything but it could mean there is genuine no timing pull or you have the wrong sensors and the ECu isn't detecting knock! one is good (ie not harmful) for the engine the other is catastrophically bad...


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## GroverUK (Dec 2, 2010)

God help anyone browsing this forum because there thinking of buying a tt. They'll come across this thread and think, Sod it im buying a micra! :lol:


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

GroverUK said:


> God help anyone browsing this forum because there thinking of buying a tt. They'll come across this thread and think, Sod it im buying a micra! :lol:


I'm thinking of selling the TT and getting a Micra instead


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## missile (Jul 18, 2011)

sazismail said:


> GroverUK said:
> 
> 
> > God help anyone browsing this forum because there thinking of buying a tt. They'll come across this thread and think, Sod it im buying a micra! :lol:
> ...


If I owned a micra, I would look forward to it breaking down :?


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

Sorry to hear of your bad luck...

That damage has almost 100% been caused by continued detonation in that cylinder.....questions that need to be asked I believe are the following...

1. Was the damage already in existance before the engine was fitted?
2. Is the BAM loom definately directly compatible with an APX ECU?
3. Since when was the TT APX engine 210bhp?
4. What injectors were used with the engine? Were they or have they been flowchecked since?>
5. What checks/logs were done after the engine had been replaced?
6. What MAF was used? APX or BAM - there is a difference.

Good luck in getting it sorted.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

The S3 engine was 210 , was it one of those that was used?


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

S3 was an APY

APX ecu is not compatible with BAM loom, knock sensors are different on BAM . APX is narrow band , BAM is wideband.

I hope that the BAM loom and sensors weren't run on the APX ecu. You might get away with running the passenger side loom providing the knock sensors of the APX were run. But running the BAM drivers side loom and with it the wideband probe is definitely not good. Wrong knock sensors and wideband on the wrong ecu is a recipe for............ [smiley=bigcry.gif]

Running a few logs and looking at the error codes it would through up would tell you immediately it's not right.


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## Dalett (Aug 10, 2012)

Not being funny saz but seems you're playing the sympathy card. Every time i see you and your mates you thrash the living hell outta all of your cars and have poor maintenance on them. Read all 6 pages and i do feel for you but try looking after it more :roll:


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Dalett said:


> Not being funny saz but seems you're playing the sympathy card. Every time i see you and your mates you thrash the living hell outta all of your cars and have poor maintenance on them. Read all 6 pages and i do feel for you but try looking after it more :roll:


What's the word..... oh yes PRICK !

I would say [email protected] but it would get pulled


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

jamman said:


> Dalett said:
> 
> 
> > Not being funny saz but seems you're playing the sympathy card. Every time i see you and your mates you thrash the living hell outta all of your cars and have poor maintenance on them. Read all 6 pages and i do feel for you but try looking after it more :roll:
> ...


Thats no way to welcome a newbie !!! obviously they know each other.. lets be honest you always have to have bedding in time.. mines just coming to the end of her latest bedding in period and is going to the rollers soon. (prior to power house) so perhaps Ragging the hell out of a car, before it's bedded in it's new components is always a risk.. 1) you may have bought a dodgy part and pop 2) the ECU needs to monitor and learn from the readings it's getting again..


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## dbbloke (Jan 30, 2012)

Wow nightmare indeed. I know the feeling too well. Good luck in the future.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > Dalett said:
> ...


In that will the OP will confirm the bloke is a prick as well :wink: (confirmed)


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

Dalett said:


> Not being funny saz but seems you're playing the sympathy card. Every time i see you and your mates you thrash the living hell outta all of your cars and have poor maintenance on them. Read all 6 pages and i do feel for you but try looking after it more :roll:


Dale, i havent ever thrashed the TT to be fair, always drive that slow around. 1. There's no need to drive a car like that first. 2nd. With all the new components, you have to wear it in for the first 1000 miles or so.

I agree that my old car, 106 GTI, i used to thrash that about all the time, but things have changed since getting the TT and i do look after it a lot. If you have read the 6 pages within this thread, then you will notice that the failure could be down to something i had no control over.


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

Not being funny saz but seems you're playing the sympathy card. Every time i see you and your mates you thrash the living hell outta all of your cars and have poor maintenance on them. Read all 6 pages and i do feel for you but try looking after it more :roll:

What's the word..... oh yes PRICK !

I would say [email protected] but it would get pulled

Thats no way to welcome a newbie !!! obviously they know each other..

In that cwill the OP will confirm the bloke is a prick as well :wink:[/quote][/quote]

Just so you know, this is the guy that used to own that brown saxo with the plush interior on hydros which later got resprayed in a grey colour, usually winning most, featured in fast car and several other magazines. I will however say that this guy has been banned from a lot of forums, facebook groups etc for his arrogance. I dont really know this guy that well, but i know of him. However, this thread was purely created for advice and help from others, so lets try not to get off topic and back to the matter.


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

dbbloke said:


> Wow nightmare indeed. I know the feeling too well. Good luck in the future.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


Thank you very much, hopefully things will go smoothly for me once this matter is resolved.


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

L33JSA said:


> Sorry to hear of your bad luck...
> 
> That damage has almost 100% been caused by continued detonation in that cylinder.....questions that need to be asked I believe are the following...
> 
> ...


Thank you


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## Dalett (Aug 10, 2012)

Jamman congratulations on being a grade a prick, bet you feel well big being an internet warrior [smiley=argue.gif] :roll: :lol: 
Why pussy foot around licking peoples arses, the truth is iv seen and so have many people thrash that car over and over. I hope you do get it sorted and i know about throwing several thousands into a car myself, but once its done nobody can take that hard work away. All the best just goes to show there are morons on every forum [smiley=book2.gif]


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## SonyVaio (Jul 25, 2012)

Popcorn at the ready, front row seat and now just waiting on the action! :roll:


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## wireless (Jan 24, 2012)

Shhhhhhitee

Feel so sorry for you like omgosh !!!!!!!!!!!


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I think Sazs comments about young Dales history says it all really so no comeback needed :wink: :lol: :lol:

Hope it gets sorted soon Saz


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## Dalett (Aug 10, 2012)

Multi featured show car, 2011 i cleaned up every show including at vag shows
Dont worry id be jealous too, i mean have you seen your tt :lol: :lol: 
Peace out :roll:


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## Stueyturn (Jun 29, 2011)

Dalett said:


> Multi featured show car, 2011 i cleaned up every show including at vag shows
> Dont worry id be jealous too, i mean have you seen your tt :lol: :lol:
> Peace out :roll:


Is there really any need? I don't see what your motives are for being on here other than trying to ridicule the OP and other members.


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## wireless (Jan 24, 2012)

Dalett said:


> Multi featured show car, 2011 i cleaned up every show including at vag shows
> Dont worry id be jealous too, i mean have you seen your tt :lol: :lol:
> Peace out :roll:


Lol looks like Jamman you are a twat after all as you cannot seem to keep your nose out of anything but saying that, dale leave the other poor chap be mate, he's had enough to deal with without being slated!.


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

Dalett said:


> Multi featured show car, 2011 i cleaned up every show including at vag shows
> Dont worry id be jealous too, i mean have you seen your tt :lol: :lol:
> Peace out :roll:


Which Vag shows???? I didn't see a saxo at any vag shows last year :?


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Well this thread seems to be going all over the place, there are some well put together posts that come up with some very valid points which i will do my best to answer.

As for the amount of money Saz has spent, i've been there before and you spend a large amount of money on a car thinking it's going to be great only for something else to happen that again you think i'll just get this done and all will be ok only to have something else major go wrong and then you are at the point of no going back cause you feel all that money would have just been wasted. Hindsight eh, if only we could see what was a little further down the line!I am sure most of us would be a little better off.



L33JSA said:


> Sorry to hear of your bad luck...
> 
> That damage has almost 100% been caused by continued detonation in that cylinder.....questions that need to be asked I believe are the following...
> 
> ...





s3tt said:


> S3 was an APY
> 
> APX ecu is not compatible with BAM loom, knock sensors are different on BAM . APX is narrow band , BAM is wideband.
> 
> ...


There is no doubt it is a big mess with this car from start to finish! We ended up with a car that has had a lot of issues. No problem nothing we haven't seen and dealt with many times before! Now we are in a place where this car has gone through 3 engines. 1st one, god only knows why this one failed and what the cause was. 2nd one, newly rebuilt engine. We checked and it had spat a shell out taking the crank with it. No sign of detonation on any of the cylinders but as it did next to no miles that is not surprising. 3rd one, my engine 80k, very well serviced with oil pick up replaced as soon as i get the car at 70k. This engine was only removed from my car as i broke it, car was mint.

Sorry if i am repeating myself,

Before we carried out the engine swap we checked to see why it had failed in the 1st place as you would expect. Obvious mechanical failure.

Next step BAM engine in to APX car. The car retained the APX ECU. With the loom Saz had mentioned was suspect i said i he could have the one off my car. On fitting the engine the tech inspected the original loom to find it was only the coil pack wiring that was looking suspect and a couple of other bits, so they were cut out of the loom and spliced in to the existing one. We retained the BAM injectors out of my car as they are compatible. The differences in the BAM and the APX are the Lambdas, the BAM has an EGT (exhaust gas temp) sensor and VVT. Saz's car ran his lambdas. EGT sensor and VVT just disconnected still using the APX MAF. As we have done on quite a few cars with no issues.

After fitting and running it up the fans weren't working due to a faulty fan controller, obviously this could have been an issue that had caused a problem with the previous engines failing. The car was road tested, no fault codes present. I am unsure what logs where carried out afterwards but i know the boost was checked.

The amount of things that can cause this kind of failure is very long,
Missfire started and the continued to be driven,
Loss of fuel pressure,
Air leak,
Poor quality fuel if the timing had been set for high octane,
Blocked injector,
To name just a few.
At this minute in time all i can determine is that something has caused detonation in cylinder 3.

This is what i have to categorically find out!

If there is any doubt there is no doubt i will get this put right at my cost (not Awesomes) for Saz! If it is categorically with no doubt something that was unforeseen and something we had no control over then i will not be paying for it!

I will not make any assumptions as to what has gone wrong, we have to find out the exact cause! After all when the car goes back together if we haven't determined the cause we would only end up having the exact same problem again and there is NO WAY i am going through this again!

I am currently waiting on our engine re builders to inspect the engine to see if it can be repaired. Jim is going to check the mapping to see if there is anything that is untoward. Fuel pressure test (although if ok at the time doesn't mean if the car has been run for an amount of time that the pressure couldn't drop off then) and then the injectors will be sent away to be flow tested.

Thank you to the person who has offered a set of pistons and rods, you might be getting a call. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

as always any questions are welcome and i'll update as soon as have some more information.


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## TT SMITHY (Jan 18, 2011)

Nice post john i dont know the affect of the bam cylinder head on an apx would of been an
issue ? im sure the cams have differnt part numbers ,

There was a BT build where a bam engine i think used AGU cams and caused a running
issue like a miss fire and down on power so visa versa could of been a problem bam to apx
cylinder head

I know the AGU cams have the same part number as an APX also so may have the
same affect of bam to apx causing a problem ?...


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

AwesomeJohn said:


> Well this thread seems to be going all over the place, there are some well put together posts that come up with some very valid points which i will do my best to answer.
> 
> As for the amount of money Saz has spent, i've been there before and you spend a large amount of money on a car thinking it's going to be great only for something else to happen that again you think i'll just get this done and all will be ok only to have something else major go wrong and then you are at the point of no going back cause you feel all that money would have just been wasted. Hindsight eh, if only we could see what was a little further down the line!I am sure most of us would be a little better off.
> 
> ...


Can I ask which knock sensors you used? BAm or APX?


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

TT SMITHY said:


> Nice post john i dont know the affect of the bam cylinder head on an apx would of been an
> issue ? im sure the cams have differnt part numbers ,
> 
> There was a BT build where a bam engine i think used AGU cams and caused a running
> ...


Thanks, it's only a slight differance in the cam profile, they all time up the same, we have run AGU cams in a BAM before when we have done big port heads.



> Can I ask which knock sensors you used? BAm or APX?


The APX ones had to be used,


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## oceans7 (Oct 20, 2009)

I was just about to give up reading this post at page four then had the genius idea of skipping to page 6 and hey fxxking presto a flamin we did agogo :lol: Sorry to hear about your car mate, even if you did (allegedly) give it a good thrashing, you won't be the first or the last, just shetty bad luck for you really. Other newbie dude who's flaming with Jamman, not really a necessary comment about the way this guy drives, John at awesome, well, the only word for the way he has dealt with this is Awesome, so that's fitting.


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## TT SMITHY (Jan 18, 2011)

John from what i read the profile is similar but the keying on the end is 4 degrees off, so sensor will read correct but timing slightly out apparently ??, but this is only what i caught on another thread about these cams....

oh well just a thought  really hope you get to the bottom of this


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## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

TT SMITHY said:


> John from what i read the profile is similar but the keying on the end is 4 degrees off, so sensor will read correct but timing slightly out apparently ??, but this is only what i caught on another thread about these cams....
> 
> oh well just a thought  really hope you get to the bottom of this


That will be cam timing though not spark timing. FItting the wrong Camsensor, IE running a APX on BAM or vice versa will give you a cam/crank incorrect correlation error in the DTC's.


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

AwesomeJohn said:


> We retained the BAM injectors out of my car as they are compatible.


Would it be presumptious to think that you probably used your fuel pressure reg too?



AwesomeJohn said:


> I am unsure what logs where carried out afterwards but i know the boost was checked.


Can I ask why as a matter of course when you carry out an engine replacement, especially on a car that's had a known troublesome history do you not do some proper post-installation checks/logs such as oil pressure, air/fuel, timing. You've got ideal facilities there to do it on your rollers too. Surely by spending half an hour on there logging could save a whole load of potential issues later on? Simply checking the boost isnt going to tell you much! Had this been done it may have possibly avoided what has happened? Surely when a customer books their car in with you for an engine change they should be able to drive away from there after it has been done knowing that the car has been thoroughly checked over (as far as humanly possible) and diagnostic checks have been done to ensure that the car is running as perfect as possible and certainly not in danger of going pop due to detonation amongst other things!

Do you agree with me that I wouldn't of thought that you could possibly 100% say for certain that the engine was absolutely perfect internally before it was fitted to Sazi's car? That detonation damage could possibly have started when it was fitted to your car? I'll be honest - I'm not sure how you will ever be able to prove or disprove this statement 'If it is categorically with no doubt something that was unforeseen and something we had no control over....' Was a compression or leakdown test done on the engine prior to fitting?

Had the engine failed in the same way as the old engine did then perhaps you could say that it was something to do with the car or an ancillary attached to the car that was at fault - but not when its a totally unrelated failure, again proper diagnostics after the engine has been fitted should bring such issues to light.

Hope you get to the bottom of the failure but if I was Sazi I would expect no less than for yourself/Awesome to resolve it between yourselves at no cost to him, I can't see how any of this could be anything to do with something he'd done....unless of course he disconnected the wastegate pipe and ran unregulated boost pressure!!!


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

L33JSA said:


> AwesomeJohn said:
> 
> 
> > We retained the BAM injectors out of my car as they are compatible.
> ...


I can see how you have come to a lot of the assumptions you have made regarding the engine that was fitted. What we haven't mentioned is the amount of time we actually had the vehicle after the motor was fitted. Nearly 4 months!. While Saz was getting himself straight he wanted us to carry on with a lot of extra work on the car which required a lot of road testing at a number of different points. While in our possession we actually went through over £40 worth of fuel. The car was also driven in and our of the workshop every day and run round the block when the battery started to struggle starting. The car was run a lot!Therefore this car was driven by ourselves far more that any other car we have pretty much ever carried any work out on. I am sure that had there been any issues the would have definitely showed up in this time.

Each and every car we look at slightly differently, we try to take in to account each vehicles problems and history. In Saz's case as mentioned in previous posts we determined that the failure was down to a component failure in the engine, we also found the fans not working. Two problems which are very likely to cause the problems that Saz /this TT had. We were also only advised to supply and fit the engine, not to identify and faults or issues. We took it on ourselves to investigate things a little further. Saz, due to funds and cost did not want to spend any extra funds on carrying out any investigative work.



> Can I ask why as a matter of course when you carry out an engine replacement, especially on a car that's had a known troublesome history do you not do some proper post-installation checks/logs such as oil pressure, air/fuel, timing. You've got ideal facilities there to do it on your rollers too. Surely by spending half an hour on there logging could save a whole load of potential issues later on? Simply checking the boost isnt going to tell you much! Had this been done it may have possibly avoided what has happened?Surely when a customer books their car in with you for an engine change they should be able to drive away from there after it has been done knowing that the car has been thoroughly checked over (as far as humanly possible) and diagnostic checks have been done to ensure that the car is running as perfect as possible and certainly not in danger of going pop due to detonation amongst other things!


As you have mentioned we do have all the facilities to check everything and if there were any indications of an issue at the time the engine was fitted absolutely we would have done this. When the motor is fitted and the new oil goes in you start the engine, wait the few seconds for the oil light to go out, run it up make sure it get's up to temperature and the fans cut in and out as they should, check the fault codes, check all the levels again and then out for a road test. Car comes back check for fault codes check levels and if there is nothing untoward you know the car is ready. In the case of this car when it was on it's test the boost gauge fitted to the car showed over 30PSI! Obviously alarm bells are ringing so we fitted on of our gauges and the car was actually running 20 - 21PSI, so it was actually just a case of a faulty gauge. With the car doing everything as it should then we wouldn't see any need to carry out any further checks.



> Hope you get to the bottom of the failure but if I was Sazi I would expect no less than for yourself/Awesome to resolve it between yourselves at no cost to him, I can't see how any of this could be anything to do with something he'd done....unless of course he disconnected the wastegate pipe and ran unregulated boost pressure!!!


So do i and the same as most people think because we have carried out a large repair on a vehicle and someone has spent a lot of money with us that we should carry out any repairs free of charge for the foreseeable future regardless of what the issue is. I do agree it is a bit of a mission to try and find out exactly what the failure is down to but like i've mentioned before "if there is any doubt there is no doubt" i will get this motor put right for Saz. After i receive ill the information back from all our investigations we will be making an informed decision of were the blame lies and what the conclusion will be,


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## antcole (Apr 4, 2009)

Not wanting to detract from the subject, but i thought id try and lift the mood a little...

Must be the season for melted pistons.....


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

It'll go again that one, no problem! :?


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## antcole (Apr 4, 2009)

AwesomeJohn said:


> It'll go again that one, no problem! :?


I thought the same John, a decent welder will have it tip top in no time..... :lol:

I hope all goes well with your investigation, machines and women are two of the most mysterious things in our universe....


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

Thanks for your reply John - whilst I agree with the most part of what you have said above.......its still niggling me the lack of actual proper live testing of the car after the engine was fitted - especially after you'd had it for 4months.



AwesomeJohn said:


> .....which required a lot of road testing at a number of different points. While in our possession we actually went through over £40 worth of fuel. The car was also driven in and our of the workshop every day and run round the block when the battery started to struggle starting. The car was run a lot!Therefore this car was driven by ourselves far more that any other car we have pretty much ever carried any work out on. I am sure that had there been any issues the would have definitely showed up in this time.


So you say that the car was ran alot, round the block, in and out out of the workshop etc. Was it ever put under proper, and I'm sure you know what I mean by proper.....proper load. You can potter round the block, leave it idling, or drive the car up and down the bypass by your premises as much as you like driving normally and the car will never really be put under much proper load - I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that its when the car is under prolonged load @ WOT that this type of damage is more likely to occur. Plus its nigh on impossible to know that anything is wrong unless you're finely tuned to the sound of detonation etc.

Can you absolutely hand on heart say here that whilst the car was in your/Awesome's possession the car was ran and properly tested with other equipment where applicable (i.e. additional wideband equipment) at full load in 4th gear or higher and during WOT/full load the car was not running lean, timing was within acceptable parameters and intake temperatures were not excessive - I was going to mention EGT but this would be hard to monitor compared to the rest??

I think its a fairly safe bet that you can't - although I'm quite happy to be proved wrong.

What I'm getting at is that lack of proper testing has possibly led to Sazi being in this situation with his engine. Not everyone is like you & me and is aware of how an engine works especially turboed ones that rely heavily on things like fuelling to be more or less perfect etc - I'm sure if you'd had the conversation with him and said 'listen for x amount we can run the car up on the rollers and ensure that it is fuelling correctly etc etc' I'm almost certain that he wouldnt have refused. Its a win win situation all round - you know the car is running perfectly under all conditions so will be happier when it leaves your possession, he gets peace of mind plus a nice printout to frame and put above his bed and show his mates in the pub, you get some extra money/profit for more services and possibly even further work if something untowards shows up?


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

L33JSA said:


> Thanks for your reply John - whilst I agree with the most part of what you have said above.......its still niggling me the lack of actual proper live testing of the car after the engine was fitted - especially after you'd had it for 4months.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To be honest with you, all I asked for is a remap through awesome at no extra cost to make sure that everything is running right and compatible with the work completed ensuring it is running at its best. I was hoping that this would be done as part of the work as it covers awesome behalf knowing what remap the car is running plus it allows them to fine tune the car to its optimised settings and deal with any errors that may of occurred. John told me that the remap I had wouldn't cause any problems for the car but if I wanted anything extra doing then it would cost another £480. This was later reduced to £300 but still as john said mine wouldn't have an effect on it, I couldn't justify paying the extra £300 for any sort of remap. I was quite happy to stay with mine and put £300 towards something worthwhile such as the coilovers i got.

As for testing, I don't think the car was put under any proper load if it was taken round the block a few times. These tests would never represent what the car would operate like if it was on a track.

Even on picking the car up I probably took it up to 50mph and that was only a quick 5 minute test without putting the car under any strain whatsoever. However even under strain the car would of held up considering the work that i have had done.

With the turbo going so quick I can imagine that the car wasn't put under any strain tests. A rolling road test for example would reveal any problems with the car I would of imagine, making sure its pushing out the torque its supposed to be producing along with the bhp. It would also reveal any other issues such as fueling how the car would hold up in terms of temperature at speed etc. I would of thought that although the car wouldn't be remapped without additional charges, these test would of been part of standard work procedures before letting a car with its history leave Awesome.

However I chose awesome gti for their reputation, I looked at other companies such as backdraft motorsport etc but I have every faith that john and his team will be able to get to the bottom of this and resolve the matter for me. I hope that they see what has happened here wasn't down to anything I did myself too and that with the warantee i have on the engine along with the workmanship of Awesome, i should be covered.

Even if it was down to another component awesome did not deal with, it should not come to my attention that i will be responsible for that because technically i had access to everything under johns hood which is what we agreed on so if under any additional tests that awesome should of carried out on the engine, then these parts may of failed and be replaced with the working one from Johns car at no extra cost.

I drove the car sensibly and never hit redline especially with knowing a lot these components are new. This could of been a lot worst if I was on a track where things could of been a lot worst than what happened here and that is because the car would of been under a lot more strain. However, i believe that if i was to attend a track day, the car should of lasted the 15 minutes or so i would have been out there without any real issues, unless down to driver error.


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

If someone told me they had a revo, and wanted to swich to APR i would also tell them that they are mad to pay for no difference.. can't really blame them for that. however now it seems like you were only "told" it was revo, and have no knowledge of if it is actually being a revo. i'm sure if awesome still did revo they'd be able to tell you for sure. but due to encription they can only see APR after parting ways with revo.. they can only go by what you have told them... which is it's got a revo map, a map that masses of people run and are very happy with...

has anyone thought the previous owner could have put boost and timming at setting 9, which your car would certainly not be able to cope with.. The engine was great in johns motor, hense in my mind the damage has been caused after the change. Regardless of you being told the cambelt has been changed when you buy the car you get it changed. it's the same with a map. how can you be sure it's safe.. the likelyhood is judging by the number of engines that it isn't..

I can see it now... "awesome rebuilt my engine again and put a APR map on, Now my car feels so slow" :roll: Think that will be the likely route.. and then at least we know the map was far too aggressive for the car..


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> If someone told me they had a revo, and wanted to swich to APR i would also tell them that they are mad to pay for no difference.. can't really blame them for that. however now it seems like you were only "told" it was revo, and have no knowledge of if it is actually being a revo. i'm sure if awesome still did revo they'd be able to tell you for sure. but due to encription they can only see APR after parting ways with revo.. they can only go by what you have told them... which is it's got a revo map, a map that masses of people run and are very happy with...
> 
> has anyone thought the previous owner could have put boost and timming at setting 9, which your car would certainly not be able to cope with.. The engine was great in johns motor, hense in my mind the damage has been caused after the change. Regardless of you being told the cambelt has been changed when you buy the car you get it changed. it's the same with a map. how can you be sure it's safe.. the likelyhood is judging by the number of engines that it isn't..
> *
> ...


*

I wouldnt know to be fair, because i haven't pushed the car hard enough to notice any difference. The car was only back with me for less than a week before it went wrong. I was still running the new parts in. Secondly, i have already asked John to put the car back to stock bhp. So no remap.. hardly going to be complaining about it feeling slow. [\b]*


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

Still not sure whats going on with this, havent heard from lately. Last update was that they were still waiting for the Audi specialist to come over and inspect the damage. However, upon talking to many people, it seems that this detonation was down to incompatibility issues. The BAM engine certainly has its differences to the APX, regardless of how similar they may be. The sensors, wiring loom, knock sensors etc all play a important part in the running of the car and everyone i've spoken to has told me that the setup i had was doomed for failure. It was just a matter of time.


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

So a supposed VAG tuning garage is waiting for an Audi specialist to come and tell them why an engine they fitted melted........ :roll: :roll:

Surely Awesome should be capable of carrying out the tests/diagnostics themselves - there isnt exactly much that would cause that type of damage!!


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

sazismail said:


> To be honest with you, all I asked for is a remap through awesome at no extra cost to make sure that everything is running right and compatible with the work completed ensuring it is running at its best. I was hoping that this would be done as part of the work as it covers awesome behalf knowing what remap the car is running plus it allows them to fine tune the car to its optimised settings and deal with any errors that may of occurred.


I've seen the way Awesome map some of their cars they have in - the car never moves from the car park, this is hardly reassuring either to know that the car hasnt even been logged after the MAP has been loaded- I don't know how they can possibly do this and walk away from the car safe in the knowledge that the engine wont melt next time the owner holds it on WOT.



tony_rigby_uk said:


> has anyone thought the previous owner could have put boost and timming at setting 9, which your car would certainly not be able to cope with.. The engine was great in johns motor, hense in my mind the damage has been caused after the change. Regardless of you being told the cambelt has been changed when you buy the car you get it changed. it's the same with a map. how can you be sure it's safe.. the likelyhood is judging by the number of engines that it isn't..


Which is exactly my point - this is what could have happened but if the car hasnt been properly tested then no-one is to know what settings are being ran.I don't understand how any garage can just replace an engine, run it round the block a few times and claim that it's running perfectly - especially when they have access to a rolling road. In Sazi's defense he asked for the MAP to be changed which in his mind gives him peace of mind, John (the expert) then advised him that he didnt need to have it changed - so why should Sazi believe any different??

The engines have all failed through different reasons - only one has melted remember.


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

L33JSA said:


> Thanks for your reply John - whilst I agree with the most part of what you have said above.......its still niggling me the lack of actual proper live testing of the car after the engine was fitted - especially after you'd had it for 4months.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry for the late reply, i have had a couple of days off sick and some catching up to do on this thread!

The same as any job like this, the proof is in the pudding and after it was done i was told to take it for a drive and i made sure it drove spot on and performed as expected, i never speed! :wink: but it got drove properly. Nothing more embarrassing than having a hose pop off as soon as the customer drives it well so i thought! I am aware of detonation and what pinking sounds and feels like.



> Can you absolutely hand on heart say here that whilst the car was in your/Awesome's possession the car was ran and properly tested with other equipment where applicable (i.e. additional wideband equipment) at full load in 4th gear or higher and during WOT/full load the car was not running lean, timing was within acceptable parameters and intake temperatures were not excessive - I was going to mention EGT but this would be hard to monitor compared to the rest??
> 
> I think its a fairly safe bet that you can't - although I'm quite happy to be proved wrong.


This is a yes and no answer really. For a car running a standard ECU running it WOT with a wide band lambda is a bit excessive. I do not deny in this case it could have highlighted a possible issue. Standard ECU with everything connected running no fault codes after numerous road tests it doesn't warrant in my eyes any further investigation. But yes more could always be done, it's just a case of where you draw the line.



> What I'm getting at is that lack of proper testing has possibly led to Sazi being in this situation with his engine. Not everyone is like you & me and is aware of how an engine works especially turboed ones that rely heavily on things like fuelling to be more or less perfect etc - I'm sure if you'd had the conversation with him and said 'listen for x amount we can run the car up on the rollers and ensure that it is fuelling correctly etc etc' I'm almost certain that he wouldnt have refused. Its a win win situation all round - you know the car is running perfectly under all conditions so will be happier when it leaves your possession, he gets peace of mind plus a nice printout to frame and put above his bed and show his mates in the pub, you get some extra money/profit for more services and possibly even further work if something untowards shows up?


We were instructed to keep the price down as much as possible! This did not affect the work that was carried out however, doing additional rolling road work etc was a definite no no, Wish i had a crystal ball, would have turned out cheap in the long run.

There is nothing to say and it would be very hard to prove if the fuel pressure was to drop off when the pump got hot say after 30 minutes of driving or so. We could have done more testing yes but it is near on impossible to cover every single possibility,



> To be honest with you, all I asked for is a remap through awesome at no extra cost


Like i said you get what you pay for, i offered you a substantial discount which you didn't take me up on and Saz there is never any warranty for any vehicle that goes on track, not even a brand new TTRS. A lot of what is put down are assumptions and what if and should of's which are only highlighted due to there being an issue. All the other cars and there have been a few have all been repaired in the same way with, obviously there has been some issues but never before have i had one go as badly wrong as this one! I never saw any of these questions coming then, how ever they should have if there was any poor procedure to the way we finish our work off.

Trust me there is NO AUDI SPECIALIST coming to inspect the engine, however we do have a specialist engine builder / engineering shop who does some work for us. I am waiting for him to come over for his advise on the bore to see if it will go again, if it needs a rebore and some oversize pistons or it gets thrown away and we start again! Audi specialist, lol, thanks Saz,

With regards to the vehicle "not being tested properly" these cars have a very intelligent diagnostics system and it is more than capable of picking up / highlighting any issues that would come up on a fairly standard stage 1 car. I do agree if it was something more extreme running say Emerald or DTA a lot of further testing would have been needed to confirm tthe car was running safely,

With the mapping as Saz has mentioned in his previous posts he believed he was running Revo Stage 1, definately no need to question the quality of the mapping there as it is on hundreds of cars and is a generic file not custom. We have since found that it is not Revo and i have someone looking at it to see if it is something that could have caused a problem.

Like i mentioned if there is any doubt there is no doubt i will get this put right for Saz,


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

AwesomeJohn said:


> With the mapping as Saz has mentioned in his previous posts he believed he was running Revo Stage 1, definately no need to question the quality of the mapping there as it is on hundreds of cars and is a generic file not custom. We have since found that it is not Revo and i have someone looking at it to see if it is something that could have caused a problem.


As i suspected. sounds more like this is going to be a poor map issue than anything else.. would be interesting to see who's. maybe CC. bet in hindsight you wish you'd have taken the discounted APR offer !!


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> As i suspected. sounds more like this is going to be a poor map issue than anything else.. would be interesting to see who's. maybe CC. bet in hindsight you wish you'd have taken the discounted APR offer !!


A poor map would be easily found out by logging the car Tony.


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

jamman said:


> tony_rigby_uk said:
> 
> 
> > As i suspected. sounds more like this is going to be a poor map issue than anything else.. would be interesting to see who's. maybe CC. bet in hindsight you wish you'd have taken the discounted APR offer !!
> ...


Tony, it certainly is a possibility and James you are most definitely correct. Had we believed there was any need to carry out further logging of the car and if it showed any indications that it was a problem we would have,


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> ....bet in hindsight you wish you'd have taken the discounted APR offer !!


.....why would he when John told him he'd be wasting his money?? He's taken advice from Awesome on this. Perhaps John needed to properly verify the MAP thats actually on the ECU before giving advice out to customers?



AwesomeJohn said:


> Tony, it certainly is a possibility and James you are most definitely correct. Had we believed there was any need to carry out further logging of the car and if it showed any indications that it was a problem we would have,


If it was that bad a MAP why didnt it melt the other engine?

Have you checked the old injectors? Are they standard? Have you checked his old fuel pressure reg - is it a 3BAR or 4BAR?

Enlighten me.....at what point do you decide that a car you've just replaced an engine in requires 'further logging' out of interest?? When you get a fault code come up - but then if you knew the fault causing the code would you just rectify it, clear the codes and carry on, or I know.....why don't you leave it until the engine melts....even after the turbo blew - you still didnt think it was a good enough reason to log the engine properly. Does it really take the engine melting before you decide to do diagnostics on it? Have you thought that perhaps the new turbo you fitted perhaps might have been giving better airflow since you replaced it? Would you fit a GT28 to a car and not properly log it?

You know yourself John than under normal running conditions certain fault codes wouldnt show - especially on an APX engined car that is only narrowband with no EGT measurements and wont tell you anything useful under full load/full boost conditions.

I'll give you an example of this....my TT is (or was APX based). I'd done a good few thousand miles in it, never ever had any fault codes come up yet I suspected the more I drove it something wasnt right with the car/MAP. It wasnt until I properly logged it using both VAGCOM and my wideband kit that I found that between 3000-5000rpm the car was massively overfueling (9.6AFR to be precise) with IDCs of over 100%. Now the car ran fine in normal everyday usage, and had been doing in the old owners hands too. My point is that I would never have found what was happening had I not properly logged it - there's no way in the world you can tell a car is running absolutely perfect without logging it properly - at the end of the day thats why diagnostics equipment is available to the automotive industry.


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

L33JSA said:


> If it was that bad a MAP why didnt it melt the other engine?


That is a good question. If you take the cynical point of view it would be easy to suggest that the most convenient thing to blame is the one part that awesome did not change :? :?


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Matt B said:


> L33JSA said:
> 
> 
> > If it was that bad a MAP why didn't it melt the other engine?
> ...


I'll just clear this one up before i go in to L33JSA's last post,

As mentioned in previous posts. The engine we swapped was supposedly a full recon that failed with next to no miles on it as it spat one of the main bearings out,

Also the head was removed and there was no sign of detention on the piston crowns,


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

> tony_rigby_uk wrote:....bet in hindsight you wish you'd have taken the discounted APR offer !!
> 
> .....why would he when John told him he'd be wasting his money?? He's taken advice from Awesome on this. Perhaps John needed to properly verify the MAP thats actually on the ECU before giving advice out to customers?


We can only go off the information given especially as i work on the desk not in the workshop. If someone tells me that they have Revo software on their car i have no reason what so ever to question this. If someone tells me it's mapped but i've no idea what it is then alarm bells start ringing. If anyone who told me that they had Revo on there car asked me to change there map for something different i would always tell them they are wasting their money as i don't believe they would ever get any benefit.

"Have you checked the old injectors? Are they standard? Have you checked his old fuel pressure reg - is it a 3BAR or 4BAR?"

The car came to us with standard injectors and the original 3bar FPR.

"Enlighten me.....at what point do you decide that a car you've just replaced an engine in requires 'further logging' out of interest?? When you get a fault code come up - but then if you knew the fault causing the code would you just rectify it, clear the codes and carry on, or I know.....why don't you leave it until the engine melts....even after the turbo blew - you still didnt think it was a good enough reason to log the engine properly. Does it really take the engine melting before you decide to do diagnostics on it? Have you thought that perhaps the new turbo you fitted perhaps might have been giving better airflow since you replaced it? Would you fit a GT28 to a car and not properly log it?"

Read and remember the information in my previous posts as i have done with yours, if you can't remember go back through the thread and jog your memory.



> As you have mentioned we do have all the facilities to check everything and if there were any indications of an issue at the time the engine was fitted absolutely we would have done this. When the motor is fitted and the new oil goes in you start the engine, wait the few seconds for the oil light to go out, run it up make sure it get's up to temperature and the fans cut in and out as they should, check the fault codes, check all the levels again and then out for a road test. Car comes back check for fault codes check levels and if there is nothing untoward you know the car is ready. In the case of this car when it was on it's test the boost gauge fitted to the car showed over 30PSI! Obviously alarm bells are ringing so we fitted on of our gauges and the car was actually running 20 - 21PSI, so it was actually just a case of a faulty gauge. With the car doing everything as it should then we wouldn't see any need to carry out any further checks.





> Sorry for the late reply, i have had a couple of days off sick and some catching up to do on this thread!
> 
> The same as any job like this, the proof is in the pudding and after it was done i was told to take it for a drive and i made sure it drove spot on and performed as expected, i never speed! :wink: but it got drove properly. Nothing more embarrassing than having a hose pop off as soon as the customer drives it well so i thought! I am aware of detonation and what pinking sounds and feels like.
> 
> ...


I do appreciate that the way we have gone about the repair might not be the same as you would work on your own vehicle. All the questions, should have done this and should have done the other and what if and why didn't you? Isn't going to get us to the bottom of what the problem is! I do understand why the questions are asked and that is why i have taken the time answer them.

I want to get to the bottom of this more than anyone!

I have contacted Saz last night to let him know what we are going to do.

We are going to repair the car and get it running again. Once this is done we will then run the car on the rolling road till we find out what the problem is. Once we know 100% what caused the failure we will then determine who is responsible for paying for the repair.

And before you say, yes i know in hindsight it would have been better to insist that Saz had paid the extra to have this done in the 1st place. But unfortunately we were working to a budget and even took Saz's old engine as part payment for the repair,

Sorry if i have come across a bit stroppy in this post but it is taking up a lot of out of my already busy working day and it is starting to frustrate me going over questions i have already answered.

I will update the post once i know some more,


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

AwesomeJohn said:


> .....and if there is nothing untoward you know the car is ready.


Well....clearly it was far from ready!!



AwesomeJohn said:


> I have contacted Saz last night to let him know what we are going to do.
> 
> We are going to repair the car and get it running again. Once this is done we will then run the car on the rolling road till we find out what the problem is. Once we know 100% what caused the failure we will then determine who is responsible for paying for the repair.


If I was the customer I very much doubt I'd be at all happy with that decision I'm afraid.

After spending £12k on a car that isn't worth anywhere near that you're now about to put him in the situation where you're going to build up a substantial parts and labour bill - probably exceeding £1,500+ with the possibility that he might have to foot it dependant upon your findings once it's all back together again.

I'll be perfectly frank here, he's got to trust you in your findings - and its pretty obvious Awesome will be doing everything possible to cover their backs and to try to avoid having to foot the cost of the repair.

You need to be telling him BEFORE you do the work who is going to be responsible for paying the bill not after, because lets face it if you tell him its going to cost him £1500+ and that he's going to have to pay it he may choose to either cut his losses or take it somewhere else to get the work done or at the very least give it to someone else for a second opinion.

In basic terms - he gave his car to a supposed trusted tuning firm to change an engine (plus whatever other work) He trusted that this firm would complete the work satisfactorily and that he would have the car back running 100% perfect. He got the car back and 500 miles later its melted.......I wonder what the legal stance on this would be.


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## greyhound (Oct 27, 2011)

Been following this thread since day one, I didnt really have anything to say, but I totally agree with L33JSA,



L33JSA said:


> AwesomeJohn said:
> 
> 
> > .....and if there is nothing untoward you know the car is ready.
> ...


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## Saffy (Oct 28, 2008)

Why don't you guys wait and see what the outcome is before hammering in to John. 
They are a trusted and well liked company and that does not happen overnight.
Stop putting the cart before the horse and let them get to the bottom of it instead of wasting there time with negative posts


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

"Well....clearly it was far from ready!!"

Again, hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Ok, i'll put it bluntly!

We were only paid to supply and fit and engine. Not carry out any kind of diagnostics and determine what the failure was down to in the 1st place. We inspected that off our own back even though we were only given a very tight budget. With regards to £12k it is shocking i know but only (approx without digging the invoice out) £2200 - £2300 was for the supply and fit of the engine,

It is also irrelevant what you any anyone else thinks about the way i am going about this. The only person who actually matters here is Saz and i am sure he appreciates you fighting his corner for him.

"I'll be perfectly frank here, he's got to trust you in your findings - and its pretty obvious Awesome will be doing everything possible to cover their backs and to try to avoid having to foot the cost of the repair"

You obviously don't hold a very high opinion of us and don't trust any garage. If we have to put a vehicle right because we have made a mistake then that's fine we'll put it right! We are not going to pay for anything that is not our fault. Saz and myself have had a lot of dealings over the previous months and we built up a relationship of trust before the car was even delivered to us! Saz has been very fair and honest in all his posts as i believe i have and i do not see him reasoning or supporting the majority of your comments,

If Saz has a problem or want's to take it legal then that's his prerogative. In 500 miles anything can happen so why is it automatically presumed we have done something wrong. I can see the only way now to find out exactly what the problem is to have the car running again. I know you are looking to be the hero and trying to trip me up and make me make a mistake in front of everyone and try to pressure me in to rolling over and just get it sorted with no quibble. All that aside i will go about everything in a fair and unbiased way. I am on everyone's side and i will do what is right and fair for everyone regardless.

Also as if i would be charging him for a full up rebuild again, you really must think we are you after hoarding as much cash as possible. If it did come down to Saz having to pay it would be under a massively discounted labour rate and parts at cost,


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

AwesomeJohn said:


> We were only paid to supply and fit and engine. Not carry out any kind of diagnostics and determine what the failure was down to in the 1st place.


This is irrelevant since the failure of this engine was for different reasons.



AwesomeJohn said:


> You obviously don't hold a very high opinion of us and don't trust any garage. If we have to put a vehicle right because we have made a mistake then that's fine we'll put it right! We are not going to pay for anything that is not our fault. Saz and myself have had a lot of dealings over the previous months and we built up a relationship of trust before the car was even delivered to us! Saz has been very fair and honest in all his posts as i believe i have and i do not see him reasoning or supporting the majority of your comments


Correct, I dont. I've heard alot of horror stories over the years that supports this opinion and my lack of trust. Indeed, and why should you pay when its not your fault. But at the moment the cars in pieces and you havent categorically been able to prove why it actually went wrong. No, you can't see him doing that - but trust me on this, that doesnt mean he doesnt support them. :wink: By his own admission he doesnt properly understand the working of a turbo'd engine.



AwesomeJohn said:


> I know you are looking to be the hero and trying to trip me up and make me make a mistake in front of everyone and try to pressure me in to rolling over and just get it sorted with no quibble. All that aside i will go about everything in a fair and unbiased way. I am on everyone's side and i will do what is right and fair for everyone regardless.


Not trying to be the hero at all - just simply making people aware of the things that could have contributed to the failure of the engine and how next time it could perhaps be avoided. As you previously said questions are bound to be asked - which is exactly all I'm doing.....questioning you and the company you are representing about the way you go about your work, as well as putting possible reasons forward as to why it happened - 10 heads are better than one when it comes to problem solving. Not trying to catch you out either at all especially if you have nothing to hide - but lets be honest you could be feeding Sazi with any old bullsh*t - I would hope that this isnt the case however. I'm just as intreguied as you, Sazi and anyone else who's reading this as to what caused the failure, Who knows, off the back of this.....next time you replace an engine for a customer you may now consider doing proper diagnostics on the car before it goes back out again, it may even get you extra work, it would almost certainly give the customer peace of mind that the job has been completed to a satisfactory standard as there is proof of this - especially if like Sazi he's not as clued up as others. Remember.....prevention is better than cure...



AwesomeJohn said:


> Also as if i would be charging him for a full up rebuild again, you really must think we are you after hoarding as much cash as possible. If it did come down to Saz having to pay it would be under a massively discounted labour rate and parts at cost,


Well until you've just mentioned this.....why would I or anyone else think otherwise!!?? Thats very generous of you though I'm sure the gesture will be appreciated by Sazi.


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

L33JSA said:


> AwesomeJohn said:
> 
> 
> > We were only paid to supply and fit and engine. Not carry out any kind of diagnostics and determine what the failure was down to in the 1st place.
> ...


Good point, but seriously i do what i can to help people out when ever i can, did Saz tell you about whe he came to collect the car? 

I've told Saz, look i hope it is found to be something that we've done wrong and he doesn't have to pay a penny. But just cause i feel bad for him i can't just get it sorted without getting to the bottom of the problem 1st. That is why i have said we need to have the car running again. Obviously i will let Saz know the cost 1st in case it is down to something like the fuel pressure dropping off after the pump gets hot or something.

I have been as honest and open as i could be, that won't change when we find out the cause,


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## NoMark (Jul 6, 2011)

Having followed this thread from the start, as well as seeing what was happening to it when Saz first bought the car, I'd like to add my two penneth, for what it's worth.

It seems to me that Awesome (John) are doing everything they can to help Saz as much as possible.

John has said on numerous occasions that, if they find that the problem is related to their work, it will be sorted at no cost to Saz. I don't believe they can be much fairer than that really.

All this squabbling isn't helping anyone, least of all Saz. I think the best thing to do now is to wait and see what the outcome of the investigation is and look for a solution acceptable to all parties involved.

Good luck to Saz, I hope this is sorted as quickly as is humanly possible.

Mark.


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## tricklexxx (Oct 21, 2010)

NoMark said:


> Having followed this thread from the start, as well as seeing what was happening to it when Saz first bought the car, I'd like to add my two penneth, for what it's worth.
> 
> It seems to me that Awesome (John) are doing everything they can to help Saz as much as possible.
> 
> ...


+1 John appears to be going about things in a dignified and systematic way from what can be made out only reading the thread. I have no doubt that Awesome will get to the bottom of the situation and resolve things as required.

There seems to be suggestion that Awesome may have 'missed' something which is an acceptable consideration but equally Saz could have been up to anything in 500 miles - who knows? Not that I'm doubting Saz but I (and presumably most others commenting) don't know him from Adam (and I don't mean Adam_TT! :lol: ).

Safe to say we all hope it gets resolved quickly and in the fairest way possible - for both parties!


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

I messaged L33JSA regarding the input through all of this thanking for the support and advice as i dont even know L33JSA. I agreed that there is a lot of unknown factors to why this has failed but as i have mentioned to L33JSA, i said all we can do is sit back and wait to see what the outcome/findings are. John and i have built up a very good relationship over the course of the past 6 months and i would like to keep things this way.

In an email to John, i quote, "Thank you for the excellent after service so far, most garages in the past wouldnt want anything to do with the customer if something goes wrong"

I'm just waiting to see what the outcome is because at this stage, it seems like no one can truly put the fault down to any particular thing. John's idea of rebuilding the car up and running tests will reflect what exactly happened.

Their are still a few niggles here and there, such as John mentioned that they checked the boost pressure due to it being excessive but the in car gauge was found to be at fault. This was before i collected the car.

However though, in a later email received off John after the car went back to Awesome, i got told:

"The map on the car was not encrypted so we could extract the file to have it analysed by another tuner. He has come back to us saying "it is very lean at the top end , also too much advance and the boost pressure has been turned up way to high"

which gets me to question was the gauge really at fault back then, or was this the time to properly diagnose it at the time they realised this before handing the car back to me as in my eyes, the latter statement contradicts the original statement. From what i can tell, Awesome are saying they thought the boost was too high back then but blamed my gauge for incorrect representation, but now Awesome are saying that the boost was too high which may of contributed towards the detonation.

I'm not having a go at John or anything, because he has been of great help so far in terms of the after service, and he isn't the mechanic within Awesome. This could be a positive thing for John as he wasnt the one that made that decision, and was only passed on this information. It was the mechanics within Awesome saying one thing and then contradicting it with another, putting the liability on them (if the boost was at blame) and not Johns pockets but all we can do is wait to see what they find in the end.

Its hard to make any judgement because John is right, without rebuilding the engine, and logging findings etc, it wont become clear to what has happened till that is complete.


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

Think it's a little more blured than that Lee.

all things aside this was a engine from Johns TT, who he sold to Saz as a favour because of the horror situation he was in. then it was down to awesome for fitting.. as said the first failure was deemed a bad rebuld. so therefore you would assume the ecu is running perfectly, especially since it is a well trusted map (which it now no longer turns out to be) awesome have tried to keep costs right down on the job. and most wouldn't be able to source a engine for much less than he was charged for it fitted (check the going rate on e-bay)

if you take a step back and see that john sold the engine to saz and then awesome fitted it. it's alot stickier. awesome have done countless rebuilds on cars, some even members off here.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but if i'm honest i don't think i'd personally have paid for all the diagnostics either. especially since it's a stage #1 with a revo. with as you say a unreleated failure to the previous 2 engines.

In some respects it would be like my engine snapping a cambelt. and then getting it replaced by midland VW or TTshop, then 500miles later bending the rod in it.. i couldn't blame the garage who fitted the engine as i knew the map and the set up was aggessive. but the issue here is saz didn't know about it. and didn't give the correct info to awesome. which would have affected the recommendation to diagnostics.

awesome have always been great with me, even when things haven't gone to plan, and it doesn't feel nice when it happens, but the blow has always been softened by the way John and the whole team at awesome have been with me..

I know my engine will be in there for a swap.. i've heard it for 2years now, from everyone on this forum. but the decission and advise to me has always been sound. and I like saz has passed on the additional expense and ran the risk...

Saz has done it with Diagnostics to keep it cheap
I've done it with Rods because i'm a numpty !!!!!

John is a top bloke, and i've seen him be more than reasonable on many occasions, including my own..


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

sazismail said:


> "The map on the car was not encrypted so we could extract the file to have it analysed by another tuner. He has come back to us saying "it is very lean at the top end , also too much advance and the boost pressure has been turned up way to high"


Too lean on a map.. usually injectors max out before the map gets lean :? too much timming advance, did warn that that could be a issue, you may have had a chance if it was top notch fuel all the time. as for boost, well wouldn't worry too much on that... i hit very high boost and don't melt pistons..

sounds like the map is crap, and probably with it being unecripted been writted by the last owner. or downloaded off the net..and put on.. crap way to find out though.. alt


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Thank you for the support too, it is very hard to keep a post like this balanced and i only want whats absolutely right and fair to be the outcome. Even though it is very unfair for any of us to have to be in this situation in the 1st place.

Saz, what you have said is bang on mate, it does contradict itself. That's why i really feel the need to get the car running as their can be no mistake in diagnosing the fault then.

I am not upset at all by you seeking advise from anyone and he has fought the corner very well for you coming up with a lot of very valid points and stressing me right out in the mean time! :lol: I must admit the fuel pressure reg one had me running from my desk to the workshop to check! :lol:


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

Tony.....sorry, but you've got some learning to do mate...



tony_rigby_uk said:


> Too lean on a map.. usually injectors max out before the map gets lean


The MAP tells the injectors how long to open for, if the MAP doesnt tell the injectors to open for long enough for the air thats being supplied then the MAP is considered to be lean.



tony_rigby_uk said:


> as for boost, well wouldn't worry too much on that... i hit very high boost and don't melt pistons..


Thats because your MAP is requesting the right amount of fuel/timing for that high boost because its mapped for it and its ready for it. Plus you are on a wideband car so more room for error if things do go slightly wrong it will automatically compensate for it to a certain degree. You can't just run for example 3BAR boost pressure and expect the car run and perform fine. Too much boost/air, not enough fuel = lean=melted engine.



tony_rigby_uk said:


> and probably with it being unecripted been writted by the last owner. or downloaded off the net..and put on


That's a bit presumptious isnt it, lots of companies don't encrypt their maps. Doesnt make them any worse or better than the companies that do - just means the ones that do are attempting to protect their intellectual property.

Sazi - Out of interest.....any idea how long ago the owner had ran that MAP for previously before you purchased the car?


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

AwesomeJohn said:


> I am not upset at all by you seeking advise from anyone and he has fought the corner very well for you coming up with a lot of very valid points and stressing me right out in the mean time! :lol: I must admit the fuel pressure reg one had me running from my desk to the workshop to check! :lol:


LOL......I'll keep my thinking cap on then.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

There will be a rut in the floor between your desk and the workshop before this concludes I'm sure..... :wink:


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

L33JSA said:


> Tony.....sorry, but you've got some learning to do mate...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All i can do really about the MAP is to ask the previous TT owner that had the car. It was bought off a member on here so hopefully he still checks the site from time to time or recieve email notifications. He told me it was a stage one revo remap so it would be nice to know exactly who did it for him and where.


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

AwesomeJohn said:


> On fitting the engine the tech inspected the original loom to find it was only the coil pack wiring that was looking suspect and a couple of other bits, so they were cut out of the loom and spliced in to the existing one.


John - just out of curiosity.......what parts of the the loom where actually used if you dont mind me asking other than the coilpack wiring. Only reason I ask is because you mention this earlier on in the thread..



AwesomeJohn said:


> Saz's car ran his lambdas. EGT sensor and VVT just disconnected still using the APX MAF


I presume you mean only one lambda as the APX only has the one.But to me this sounds like you used a fair chunk of your loom if you incorporated the EGT & VVT wiring also unless you are just refering to the sensors just being left in place?


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

No Problem 



L33JSA said:


> AwesomeJohn said:
> 
> 
> > On fitting the engine the tech inspected the original loom to find it was only the coil pack wiring that was looking suspect and a couple of other bits, so they were cut out of the loom and spliced in to the existing one.
> ...


Yes, just one Lambda, my mistake. I was just referring to the sensors being left in place on the engine


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

L33JSA said:


> That's a bit presumptious isnt it, lots of companies don't encrypt their maps. Doesnt make them any worse or better than the companies that do - just means the ones that do are attempting to protect their intellectual property.


Not Presumptious at all, obviously if the map is as bad as the feedback that has been given, then yes it could be a very good well used company, but think there'd be a few more horror stories along the same lines on this forum if that was the case.. seems that the map is crap, been explored and proven crap. so after eliminating the lack of other tt's on this forum having the map. it must be very rare !! hense could be downloaded... and in this case it does make it worse than the other companies... it's a lean map with max timming and high boost.... so WORSE than others :roll:


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Well we'll definitely find out once it's back up and running!


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> L33JSA said:
> 
> 
> > That's a bit presumptious isnt it, lots of companies don't encrypt their maps. Doesnt make them any worse or better than the companies that do - just means the ones that do are attempting to protect their intellectual property.
> ...


Tony - you've completely and utterly missed the point I was making, to the point of not making much sense yourself!!

1. We dont know what MAP it is or indeed who wrote it, this being the case how do we know or not know that there arent other TT or 1.8T owners running it.

2. Yes, according to Awesome's techy the map appears to be crap - not disputing that in the slightest.

3. The general point I was making based on your last post was that just because a MAP isnt encrypted doesnt make it a bad poor MAP. In this instance yes it maybe crap but thats not absolutely nothing at all to do with the encryption.

4. You need to learn the MAP of your keyboard better so you don't make as many spelling & grammar mistakes!!! :roll:



AwesomeJohn said:


> Well we'll definitely find out once it's back up and running!


Playing complete devils advocate here.......but for arguements sake what if when you get the car back up and running, get it on the rollers, get it hooked upto the diagnostics equipment, run it up, put it under load etc and everything seems fine, no excessive timing pull, reasonable fuelling etc......where would you go from there apportioning the blame/cost?

Also, when you stripped down the previous engine to check why it had failed was there any indication of severe detonation in cyl 3?


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## Saffy (Oct 28, 2008)

Lee again I have to respond to your what if's, why can't you just wait and see what the outcome is.

I doubt Awesome have a crystal ball to answer your what if's so give them a chance. 
I am just as curious as probably most forum members are who are following this thread so please stop sounding like a broken record. 
You sound like the type of person who would go to a doctor with a pain and rather than wait for results of any tests would start with your what if's I have cancer, what if my leg falls off etc etc etc
So please be patient and be patient like Saz is rather than jump the gun.


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Saffy said:


> Lee again I have to respond to your what if's, why can't you just wait and see what the outcome is.
> 
> I doubt Awesome have a crystal ball to answer your what if's so give them a chance.
> I am just as curious as probably most forum members are who are following this thread so please stop sounding like a broken record.
> ...


I wish i had one of those crystal ball's!



> Playing complete devils advocate here.......but for arguements sake what if when you get the car back up and running, get it on the rollers, get it hooked upto the diagnostics equipment, run it up, put it under load etc and everything seems fine, no excessive timing pull, reasonable fuelling etc......where would you go from there apportioning the blame/cost?
> 
> Also, when you stripped down the previous engine to check why it had failed was there any indication of severe detonation in cyl 3?


Think i mentioned previously no detonation in cylinder 3,

As for the what if scenario i don't care as i wont be working here anymore! :lol: Seriously, i just can't see that happening! If it did though that just opens up a whole another world of what if's and scenarios. I can only say we'll have to cross that bridge should it ever come to it! [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

Saffy said:


> Lee again I have to respond to your what if's, why can't you just wait and see what the outcome is.


If you havent noticed you are on a public car forum, it's where people DISCUSS and TALK about car related subjects because that is what they are interested in.

Hence I am interested in (and no doubt others are) what would happen should the MAP turn out to be not as bad as suspected and this wasn't the cause of the failure. No doubt this would have crossed John's mind at some point.

He doesnt have to respond if he doesnt want to, just as you don't have to but since this is a DISCUSSION then I would imagine he probably will.

Nothing wrong with having an action plan should things not work out - I take it you have never diagnosed technical issues before?



Saffy said:


> I doubt Awesome have a crystal ball to answer your what if's so give them a chance.


I know for a fact they haven't because if they had then this situation probably wouldnt of ever arisen!



Saffy said:


> ....sounding like a broken record.


Please show me where I have previously asked this question before?



Saffy said:


> You sound like the type of person who would go to a doctor with a pain and rather than wait for results of any tests would start with your what if's I have cancer, what if my leg falls off etc etc etc
> So please be patient and be patient like Saz is rather than jump the gun.


Not quite sure thats a good example really and not particularly relevant, any pain, lump or other medical condition where people have to go in for tests I'm sure gets the average person thinking of the 'what ifs'.

Not jumping any guns - like I said earlier, absolutely nothing wrong with planning ahead and thinking about your next move - its called preparation.

...and back on topic...


----------



## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

AwesomeJohn said:


> I wish i had one of those crystal ball's!


Me too, I wouldnt have fitted the dodgy N75 valve to my car that led to the demise of my conrod! lol



AwesomeJohn said:


> Think i mentioned previously no detonation in cylinder 3


Interesting.



AwesomeJohn said:


> As for the what if scenario i don't care as i wont be working here anymore!


Surely things haven't got that bad in this thread!! :lol: :lol:


----------



## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

> AwesomeJohn wrote:As for the what if scenario i don't care as i wont be working here anymore!
> 
> Surely things haven't got that bad in this thread!! :lol: :lol:


Not yet but if anything goes wrong with it again it will do!


----------



## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

I would still like to know.

How many miles on previous engine before it chucked a rod - with no apparent detonation on cylinder 3.

How many miles on Johns engine with a significant amount of detonation on cylinder 3.

MAP is getting the blame but same map for both engines yet different symptoms.

Tell me he only did 10 miles on the previous engine and I will shut up :lol:


----------



## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Matt B said:


> I would still like to know.
> 
> How many miles on previous engine before it chucked a rod - with no apparent detonation on cylinder 3.
> 
> ...


As far as i'm aware he didn't even get a chance to run it in as it was apparently a full rebuild. We took the head and the sump off the old motor and found no issues with the crowns of the piston and a shell out of one of the con rods,

The question that really wants answering was what happened to the very 1st motor??????

No the map is not getting the blame but it is suspect and that is why we need the car running again to find out properly.

Cheers John


----------



## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

AwesomeJohn said:


> Matt B said:
> 
> 
> > I would still like to know.
> ...


Hi John
In all honesty If I was Saz I wouldnt want that MAP anywhere near my shiny new rebuilt engine. 
I am in the process of having my car rebuilt as a 2L large port and you wouldnt get me testing out a suspect map on it !!


----------



## SonyVaio (Jul 25, 2012)

I have been watching this thread with great interest from the start, I hope the exact source of the problem is found soon enough. This thread has been a rollercoaster with some great information, emotion, passion and also educational at the same time.

I posted a link to a Volvo story back on page 4 and for those that have looked at the linked story may well see what looks like striking similarities to the effects on the engine in that story to this one (pictures on page 3 of the linked thread). In the Volvo story the damage was categorically caused by a bad map which caused the engine to run lean and cause the detonation of cylinder 3.

Concern:

My concern at the moment is your planning on sticking the engine back together again without actually knowing the cause of the failure? I can appreciate that it can become a bit of a catch 22 in that your not 100% so putting it back together again and logging failure may be the only way. Putting an engine back together just to see it fail is absolutely bonkers to me? I know you don't actually want it to fail and hope to stop any damage from happening but when these things go they go pretty quick? Then even if you do catch any failure early then what about the wear damage that is going to have been done upto this point? Are you going to re-strip and check just be sure??

I'm also guessing that the engine is repairable then?? If it is repairable does it now require to be re-bored?

The part that really concerns me though is your going to replace parts and spend all the time, effort and parts required to get the car back to A1 condition only to run it and 'HOPE' you can then catch the engine or fault before ending up in the exact same position again?? Thus perhaps requiring an even further re-build??

If it does fail again and is actually down to the map does poor Saz end up with repair bill 2 and 3!?? (2 being the current rebuild about to happen and 3 being the future rebuild that may be required).

I am intrigued as to the source of the problem and I feel for Saz with the epic tale of multiple failures. I would 100% be contacting the previous owner (details off V5 form if needs be) and finding out EXACTLY where, when and by who done the previous map. If it was a company that has applied an appaulingly poor map then there may be recompense through small claims court for their involvement in causing the detremental demise of 2 engines and 3 rebuilds.

My recommendation would be to re-build the car and put a 100% standard map on it prior to running. Once the car shows no signs under full logging and diagnostic then apply the current map back to the car and then very gently run the car getting faster and harder until you either log something or indeed the car runs prefectly fine. At least by going straight back to a 100% standard map you are giving the engine/rebuild the best chance possible. Of course with a standard map and a half fooked FPR that is dropping pressure may be perfectly fine - may only be with ANY remap on there that a duff FPR may be making the difference that turns out to be detrimental?


----------



## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

L33JSA said:


> Tony - you've completely and utterly missed the point I was making, to the point of not making much sense yourself!!
> 
> No i think you missed the point.. in fact i said:-
> 
> ...


----------



## ragnar (Oct 1, 2011)

L33JSA said:


> tony_rigby_uk said:
> 
> 
> > L33JSA said:
> ...


Can I ask why you spell MAP with capital letters? Are the three letters an abbreviation? Or does each letter stand for something?

Just curious.


----------



## SRPII (Jun 1, 2009)

I reckon Saz would see his car back twice as quickly if people just let John get in with it...

May well be a public forum open to discussion, but the way many of the posts are put across require John to make response to defend the past, present and future actions of both himself and Awesome. FFS just let the guy sort the issue. If anyone thinks they can do better I'm sure John would welcome you up at Awesome putting it right. Other than the two people that know the facts of the situation, I'm sorry, the rest of this post is a long list of questions and speculative BS.


----------



## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Sorry, i'd better clear things up about the repair.

The motor can be repaired however it is going to have to be a rebuilt bottom end. New shells, rings and all the other usual suspects, the block will be completely stripped cleaned and repaired. The machine shop will hone the bore as far as it needs to remove the damage, after this they then measure it to ensure it is still in tolerance if not it will either be lined or rebored.

When the car goes back together trust me if will be a cotton glove affair. The car will need to be run in before it can go through any kind of pain on a rolling road. As the remap isn't encrypted we can take a copy of it and use a stock file to get us all up and running. We could carry out all out tests and if we find everything to be bang on with no issues i think it would be safe to say it was the map.

Everyone is right that the car should have a stock file on when it all goes back together,


----------



## TT SMITHY (Jan 18, 2011)

SRPII said:


> I reckon Saz would see his car back twice as quickly if people just let John get in with it...
> .


Have i missed something or is half the forum standing around awesomes work shop
asking john questions stopping him from working ? :lol:

im sure johns priority is to "answer" our questions before working on saz,s car :roll:


----------



## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

SRPII said:


> I reckon Saz would see his car back twice as quickly if people just let John get in with it...
> 
> May well be a public forum open to discussion, but the way many of the posts are put across require John to make response to defend the past, present and future actions of both himself and Awesome. FFS just let the guy sort the issue. If anyone thinks they can do better I'm sure John would welcome you up at Awesome putting it right. Other than the two people that know the facts of the situation, I'm sorry, the rest of this post is a long list of questions and speculative BS.


Thank you for your support and honestly i don't mind and enjoy adding to a post and clearing peoples questions up. It is very frustrating when the conversation starts to go around in circles etc.

This forum is actually really good to work and spend time on as unlike a lot of other forums people do know how to communicate on here and express themselves in a way that isn't completely irrational and generally willing to listen to all points of view. Even if they do want to fire 100's of questions back!

If this was another forum the thread would have been pulled on day one due to 50 people joining in on full attack mode, after someones head!

In my eyes this is mainly a really good thread, there is some [email protected] in there but i feel it still has a lot a interesting points, information and with some really good points of view. After all, everyone here quite clearly wants the best for Saz, as do we!


----------



## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Pics would help with the updates..I will start it off..
















I'm not sure which is Saz's.
Steve


----------



## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> On another note, it's common Knowledge you don't rate awesome as a garage, so therefore no post can be taken as inpartial on your side. that's your view and fair enough... but you perhaps you should be honest and open about that fact to the people who are reading your posts,


If as you say it's common knowledge then why would I need to do that, but since you mentioned it you must of missed this&#8230;



AwesomeJohn said:


> You obviously don't hold a very high opinion of us and don't trust any garage.


&#8230;where I responded quite openly and honestly with&#8230;



L33JSA said:


> Correct, I don't. I've heard alot of horror stories over the years that supports this opinion and my lack of trust.


On the flip side it's common knowledge that you have spent a considerable amount of time and money with Awesome over the past few years and in the words of a couple of members on here&#8230;words which I totally agree with 'Tony should bring his head out from Awesome's arse for some air' - perhaps you are too blinkered to see other possibilities.

I'm not responding to the rest of your post due to it not making much sense at all, you lost me after the first couple of sentences I'm afraid and seemed to repeat yourself that much I got dizzy. Perhaps you can explain it better in person if we see each other at a meet.



SRPII said:


> I reckon Saz would see his car back twice as quickly if people just let John get in with it...


I doubt that it would considering its with their engine builders..



SRPII said:


> If anyone thinks they can do better I'm sure John would welcome you up at Awesome putting it right.


I'll await the offer.....

But in the meantime, if its helps Saz with this...



AwesomeJohn said:


> the block will be completely stripped cleaned and repaired. The machine shop will hone the bore as far as it needs to remove the damage, after this they then measure it to ensure it is still in tolerance if not it will either be lined or rebored.


I've got a spare APX block and 3 good used pistons and rods that I'm sure we could come to some agreement on (I've even got 4 brand new OE pistons and 4 82.5mm pistons up for grabs if he fancies an upgrade whilst its in pieces - cloud, silver lining an all that!)


----------



## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

Me and john have agreed on the plan of action and any costs that may incur if liability was down to me.

The idea of a photo related thread may be of great informational use to people such as myself and others that are following this thread, but with the amount going on already at awesome, this may not be feasible. There is a lot of valid points made by people on here and the help from awesome and other fellow members have been exceptional. Its nice to see everyone take the time out to give their input and by the looks of things, i dont think John has slept over the past month as when he's not at work at awesome, he's on here replying to the many questions.

I think once the car is back we'll all have to get together at some agreed place and drinks will have to be on me due to the contribution, support and advice of many throughout this thread.. i think John could do with a drink or two :lol:



V6RUL said:


> Pics would help with the updates..I will start it off..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The blue TT in the second picture is mine. But if the wheels of that one in the first pic accidentally found themselves on my car i wouldn't mind 

Thank you everyone so far for the help i have received, i didn't expect this kind of support but this is what makes the ttforum different to any other one i've been a part of


----------



## poor1 (Dec 28, 2011)

Absolute madness spending all that money on a car which would not be worth more than about £3000. The Mk1 TT is a beautiful little car with great performance, but there comes a point where you have to be sensible and cut your loses.

Before I started visiting this forum I was under the impression that Audi produced good reliable cars, or is it that the TT is a one off and susceptible, but am beginning to believe that is not the case, because there are some real horror stories.


----------



## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

The TT in the first pic is mine and the wheels are a marmite thing, but cheers.
Steve


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

There's some good points being made on this thread I hope it stays as positive and doesn't degenerate.

People need to remember whilst Lee can be "very" straight to the point he also knows his stuff along with a few others on here.

I also think John has handled this *very *well I KNOW other tuners would simply get this thread pulled and deal with it behind closed doors he hasn't he has pretty much responded to every question so good on him.

Cheers

James

PS John where's my coilpacks and spacers :lol: :lol:


----------



## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

jamman said:


> Lee can be "very" straight to the point


Whatever gives you that idea mate..... :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## ragnar (Oct 1, 2011)

Lee,

can you reply to my post on page 11 about your use of "MAP"? Thanks.


----------



## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

ragnar said:


> Lee,
> 
> can you reply to my post on page 11 about your use of "MAP"? Thanks.


Certainly mate..



ragnar said:


> Can I ask why you spell MAP with capital letters? Are the three letters an abbreviation? Or does each letter stand for something?
> 
> Just curious.


It doesnt actually stand for anything where an ECU map is concerned,infact I'll be honest I've got no idea why I decided to repeatedly spell it in capitals.....however in a different context MAP does stand for Manifold Absolute Pressure which is measured via a MAP sensor that the ECU uses to tell it the pressure of the intake system.


----------



## ragnar (Oct 1, 2011)

L33JSA said:


> ragnar said:
> 
> 
> > Lee,
> ...


So, "MAP" is different to "map". Using "MAP" was incorrect and confusing.

It just seemed a bit rich, you lecturing Tony about his spelling and grammar, when you *also* use the word *"of"* rather than the word *"have"*, as in; 


> "L33JSA wrote:
> "If as you say it's common knowledge then why would I need to do that, but since you mentioned it you must of missed this&#8230;"[endquote]
> 
> I suggest you stick to engines.


----------



## corradoman (Sep 11, 2010)

ragnar said:


> L33JSA said:
> 
> 
> > ragnar said:
> ...


who cares how he spelt it :lol: :?


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

@Ragnar It's almost like you are trying to pick a fight/flaming mate can we get back OT and not let this thread degenerate further it's not needed or welcome on a thread/subject that is quite important.


----------



## corradoman (Sep 11, 2010)

jamman im not picking a fight mate just find it funny people moaning about spelling mistakes


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

corradoman said:


> jamman im not picking a fight mate just find it funny people moaning about spelling mistakes


I know I was talking to Ragnar read the post buddy 

P.S. I lurv picking people up on spelling


----------



## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

ragnar said:


> L33JSA said:
> 
> 
> > ragnar said:
> ...


What an insightful contribution to this thread. I think you should have waited for a thread entitled " I have spent 12K on english lessons and I need someone to patronise me!".

In case you hadnt realised we all know each other as we all from the same part of the country, Tony would be the first to admit his spelling is not the best. I mean look at every other post about his car and he still refers to the timing settings on his car as "timming". In this case it wasnt really about spelling, or grammar, more to do with the fact that when you are discussing some of the more technical aspects of car tuning, you need to choose your words more carefully. Despite Lee using the word "of" instead of the word "have" - there would be no-one reading this who had any trouble deciphering the meaning. Besides, we live up North and we all talk like that anyway.


----------



## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

It may be that I'm liable to pay for the repairs as the map may be at fault here so any donations to [email protected] would be very much appreciated via PayPal. A pound each would cover it from all the views on this thread haha :lol:


----------



## ChallonaTTer (Dec 28, 2011)

[smiley=mexicanwave.gif]


----------



## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

sazismail said:


> It may be that I'm liable to pay for the repairs as the map may be at fault here so any donations to [email protected] would be very much appreciated via PayPal. A pound each would cover it from all the views on this thread haha :lol:


I will donate a pound! Hell I will give you two


----------



## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

Matt B said:


> sazismail said:
> 
> 
> > It may be that I'm liable to pay for the repairs as the map may be at fault here so any donations to [email protected] would be very much appreciated via PayPal. A pound each would cover it from all the views on this thread haha :lol:
> ...


Thank you! Every little helps


----------



## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

ragnar said:


> So, "MAP" is different to "map". Using "MAP" was incorrect and confusing


Let's be honest - a MAP or map, is the same thing whether it's in capitals or not. Similarly you are ragnar or RAGNAR.....hardly confusing especially if you know what you are talking about - which if 'MAP' confused you then clearly you dont - in which case its probably best you don't contribute to this thread anymore.



ragnar said:


> It just seemed a bit rich, you lecturing Tony about his spelling and grammar, when you *also* use the word *"of"* rather than the word *"have"*, as in;


Ragnar or RAGNAR......you do actually amuse me somewhat. Thanks for giving me some entertainment when I got in tonight. I'll be completely honest and upfront here as I always am.....yes I made quite a school boy error with my grammar using 'of' instead of 'have', for which I apologise,infact I'm kicking myself for making that mistake as it annoys the crap out of me when someone else does it. I'm quite impressed actually that considering you're from Costa Blanca, Spain you actually picked up on it......so 10/10 for observation for you mate!



ragnar said:


> I suggest you stick to engines.


It's quite clear that you are aware that I know my 'onions' where engines are concerned, thanks for the roundabout compliment,much appreciated. That being the case, and if that is indeed the only area you wish to pick fault with my knowledge and if you haven't got anything more useful to bring to the table with regards to this discussion (other than grammar) then I suggest you refrain from commenting. Let's be frank here - I can't see you offering any suggestions as to how the issue may have arisen.

If you were confused by 3 capital letters and the incorrect use of 'of/have' then you'll no doubt have been completely dumbfounded by the following new words from Mr Rigby&#8230;

Unecripted
provention
suspision
fortuntly
bolame
occours
Presumptiou
Timming
hense
blured
rebuld
unreleated
aggessive
decission
writted



sazimail said:


> It may be that I'm liable to pay for the repairs as the map may be at fault here so any donations to [email protected] would be very much appreciated via PayPal. A pound each would cover it from all the views on this thread haha


I'll see Matt's £2&#8230;.and raise you another £2&#8230;. Haha


----------



## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Heck..........sazi i think you made a big cunt of a mistake......but i'll donate a tenner to the cause to help a fellow forum member out that on open forum says i woopsied up and need help guys if poss. pick someone to gather the goods and i will forward the bucks to them freely.


----------



## s3tt (Jul 10, 2012)

May I ask what issues there are with the map that caused the failure, and for you to say its the map at fault?

There are more than enough protection systems in place on the me7 ecu that this detonation/ melting shouldn't occur!

Unless all the protection maps where FF'd out , which I think would be incredible then I'm very surprised that the detonation couldn't be heard because to do that damage your going to hear knock/pinking... And if the map was so bad that there was so much timing in that the ecu couldn't pull enough then that would/should have got picked up on a test logging run


----------



## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

Yawn... As said previously.. Couldn't give a crap about spelling.. Mr Anthony Rigby MCIOB Bsc(Hons) NEBOSH with the first year MSc obviously would suggest i'm not doing too badly on the education front.. Spelling is something that I've always been shot at.. And like I said previously blame the board for not having built in spell check..

P.S my degree isn't in English language that's the missuses forte.


----------



## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

s3tt said:


> May I ask what issues there are with the map that caused the failure, and for you to say its the map at fault?
> 
> There are more than enough protection systems in place on the me7 ecu that this detonation/ melting shouldn't occur!
> 
> Unless all the protection maps where FF'd out , which I think would be incredible then I'm very surprised that the detonation couldn't be heard because to do that damage your going to hear knock/pinking... And if the map was so bad that there was so much timing in that the ecu couldn't pull enough then that would/should have got picked up on a test logging run


I'm not saying that the map is at fault yet, that is still to be determined, but as everything seems fine in terms of components, its leaning towards that way.

This is what John said to me, _The map on the car was not encrypted so we could extract the file to have it analysed by another tuner. He has come back to us saying "it is very lean at the top end , also too much advance and the boost pressure has been turned up way to high (IMO)"

Obviously all those things mentioned are quite a toxic combination and could cause the failure we have seen with your car!

But still this doesn't set in stone exactly what exactly caused the problem. The only way I can see us definitely coming up with a definite cause is to have the engine repaired and the car running so we can spend an amount of time what could cause the car to run lean enough to cause the failure. I know not an ideal situation at the moment but the only way we can move forward. Obviously once we can do this we will be able to apportion the blame to a specific fault. Once that is clear we know who would be liable to foot the bill for the repair, whether it be Awesome, me or yourself._

However, until the engine is rebuilt back up, its hard to say where the fault lies until the car is properly logged.

All we can do is wait for John and the team at Awesome carry on with the bottom end rebuild and to then log the car using the stock map and see if any issues arises. This is the only way to see if the map was the issue or if there is more to it than that.


----------



## UK225 (May 12, 2002)

Hi Sazi,

If the file has already been extracted I would happily review it for you, if you want an honest bare bones truth of the calibration.

Just PM me for my email & ask Awesome to send the file to me.

Regards
Morgan


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

UK225 said:


> Hi Sazi,
> 
> If the file has already been extracted I would happily review it for you, if you want an honest bare bones truth of the calibration.
> 
> ...


There's an offer you can't refuse


----------



## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

UK225 said:


> Hi Sazi,
> 
> If the file has already been extracted I would happily review it for you, if you want an honest bare bones truth of the calibration.
> 
> ...


Get it done......can't beat a second opinion!!


----------



## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

UK225 said:


> Hi Sazi,
> 
> If the file has already been extracted I would happily review it for you, if you want an honest bare bones truth of the calibration.
> 
> ...


Thanks Morgan,

I would be happy for you to view the map, i will contact you Monday to get this arranged 8)


----------



## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

AwesomeJohn said:


> UK225 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Sazi,
> ...


Well i guess that's been sorted then  Another member off here would also like to have a look at the file if that's possible John. If you could arrange to send this to me Monday then i can sort it out with him too.

Many thanks.


----------



## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

UK225 said:


> Hi Sazi,
> 
> If the file has already been extracted I would happily review it for you, if you want an honest bare bones truth of the calibration.
> 
> ...


Any News on the Review of the Map? Very Kind Offer Morgan, think we are all awaiting to hear your opinion of it !


----------



## Saffy (Oct 28, 2008)

Not yet, I am at awesome just now


----------



## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

Saffy said:


> Not yet, I am at awesome just now


Are you ever away???

Ak them if my 2.0l coil packs are in??? They never phoned me to let me know !! :roll:


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Has contact from John today coilpacks aren't in yet 2 weeks maybe.

Why all the excitement about the map as I said pages ago a bad map would be highlighted very quickly by properly logging the car.


----------



## Saffy (Oct 28, 2008)

Tony they are not in yet a couple of weeks yet


----------



## Saffy (Oct 28, 2008)

They are on a very slow boat from the US probably been held up in the hurricane :grin:


----------



## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

jamman said:


> Why all the excitement about the map as I said pages ago a bad map would be highlighted very quickly by properly logging the car.


Ditto think i also pointed to the map on the first page... but hey ho... :roll:


----------



## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Great excuse that one Saffy, delayed cause of a hurricane!That's it now that's the official excuse :lol:

I have been in contact with Morgan and he will have the results for us by late tomorrow! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


----------



## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

Saffy said:


> They are on a very slow boat from the US probably been held up in the hurricane :grin:


Sounds like the same shipping company are responsible for the delay. My 42 draft design intake system that i asked awesome to order took about 2 months to arrive from the states :lol:


----------



## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

That's right Saz it is but that time i believe it was just a tropical storm! :lol:


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > Why all the excitement about the map as I said pages ago a bad map would be highlighted very quickly by properly logging the car.
> ...


You are completely missing the point of my post Tony :lol: :roll:

I'm asking why peeps (ie you lol) are getting SO excited accusing the map when surely if proper logging was done this would have highlighted any map problems well before the damage to the engine shown in the pictures happened, but hey ho.... :roll:


----------



## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

jamman said:


> tony_rigby_uk said:
> 
> 
> > jamman said:
> ...


Yes that is correct, proper logging would have determined if the mapping was suitable and safe for the car and in hindsight regardless of what the extra time and costs involved were i should have insisted on it.

With Saz, telling us the mapping was Revo and with there being a strict budget on the job. Us inspecting the old engine and there being no signs of detention apparent plus the amount we drove the car there was nothing to indicate to us that there was an issue. Only once the car has come back with a melted piston we questioned what was on it only to find it was not what we were led to believe it was. Hopefully Morgan will confirm weather it was safe or not.

If it is found to be safe we will carry on as we are doing and get the car rebuilt with a standard file to determine what the issue has been. On speaking with Saz we are aiming to have this completed in the early part of October.

I'll take pictures and add them as we go along if people are interested?


----------



## SonyVaio (Jul 25, 2012)

> I'll take pictures and add them as we go along if people are interested?


Very much interested. A complete rebuilt by pictures would be fantastic.


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Always interested John on the understanding nothing gets in the way of you packing my little ol box


----------



## ades tt 180 (Jun 19, 2011)

ive been following this with interest and i'm wondering...if the map is bad..surely it would've had the same effect on the previous engine??..that one failed because it threw a big end shell which even i know has nothing to do with fuelling or timing...it has been stripped and no signs of melting at all.. :? i'm intrigued as to what caused the damage though..


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## SonyVaio (Jul 25, 2012)

ades tt 180 said:


> ive been following this with interest and i'm wondering...if the map is bad..surely it would've had the same effect on the previous engine??..


The problem with the previous engine is that it had done next to no mileage - to quote John.



AwesomeJohn said:


> As mentioned in previous posts. The engine we swapped was supposedly a full recon that failed with next to no miles on it as it spat one of the main bearings out,


I'm just guessing here but perhaps there was just too little mileage on the previous engine and not been under enough load to cause detonation/damage. Well I say that but it did spit a main bearing straight after a rebuild.

As AwesomeJohn alluded to in a previous post, what was the cause of the failure and what was the damage to the 'Original' engine? Surely this could be found out from the previous re-builder/owner???


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

SonyVaio said:


> > I'll take pictures and add them as we go along if people are interested?
> 
> 
> Very much interested. A complete rebuilt by pictures would be fantastic.


I would be interested in a photo related rebuild too  Be nice to see the amount of work that has gone into it and to educate myself in whats involved too.


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## Matzu (Feb 1, 2012)

sazi, does donaters get their name on your TT? 

Edit: Hopefully You get your TT back on road soon! I'm following You'r lead with a smaller amount tho, so far I've spent around 7000€ to My TT mostly for repairs... always have bought better pieces tho so upgrades just keep coming!


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

Matzu said:


> sazi, does donaters get their name on your TT?
> 
> Edit: Hopefully You get your TT back on road soon! I'm following You'r lead with a smaller amount tho, so far I've spent around 7000€ to My TT mostly for repairs... always have bought better pieces tho so upgrades just keep coming!


It's not a bad idea, I may have to get something made up to go nto the boot to all those that have donated to show my appreciation ;-
It would be nice to have it back on the road soon, I'm off on holiday next week for 3 weeks to Dubai and then coming back to a working car again.


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

Anyone from this thread going trax, Im getting a lift from my friend today and hopefully will be able to put some faces to names. Will be nice to see those that has helped me so far


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

pics?


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

Had no feedback as of yet so not sure they have started the rebuild yet. I'm guessing john will put pics up when he has the time as I'm sure he has a lot going on right now


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## SonyVaio (Jul 25, 2012)

Any update or pics?

:?


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

SonyVaio said:


> Any update or pics?
> 
> :?


I've emailed John last week but had no reply as of yet


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## SonyVaio (Jul 25, 2012)

sazismail said:


> I've emailed John last week but had no reply as of yet


No worries, thanks for the update anyway. Hope we (you) get something soon.

I also take it you have no rough completion date for the re-build?


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## glslang (Dec 5, 2009)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> Any News on the Review of the Map? Very Kind Offer Morgan, think we are all awaiting to hear your opinion of it !


Would be interested in knowing too (out of curiosity really)...


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

SonyVaio said:


> sazismail said:
> 
> 
> > I've emailed John last week but had no reply as of yet
> ...


Rough completion time for the rebuild is first week of October so still a while yet.


----------



## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

SonyVaio said:


> sazismail said:
> 
> 
> > I've emailed John last week but had no reply as of yet
> ...


John reckons it will take them till the first week of October to complete the rebuild so that's when it will be roughly be ready.

The only thing I know is that on Facebook on the awesome gti's Page, the blue tt in the background of the white r8 undergoing the apr remap... That's mine


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## SonyVaio (Jul 25, 2012)

Pics Pics Pics!!

I thought we were going to get a stage by stage rebuild via pics with updates.

Not long now to completion date, I hope you get the ability to just enjoy the car this time round. Also what is the answer to the question above - what was the outcome of the map being looked at independantly?


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

SonyVaio said:


> Pics Pics Pics!!
> 
> I thought we were going to get a stage by stage rebuild via pics with updates.
> 
> Not long now to completion date, I hope you get the ability to just enjoy the car this time round. Also what is the answer to the question above - what was the outcome of the map being looked at independantly?


I've emailed John asking about an update to whats going on. Hopefully i will get a reply by Monday. With regards to the independent analysis of the map, still a solid statement to whether or not its the cause to the failure of the engine is still to be determined. It was said that it may of contributed to it but still not put to blame for complete failure of the engine.

I am hoping to get some feedback after they have ran tests on the car to see whether the previous map was at fault and where the blame lies.

Until then, we just have to wait and see. The only pic i have seen was when awesome gti posted some pics of the audi r8 thats undergoing a APR remap. Mine is the blue TT in the background of one of the pics


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## RDH (Sep 7, 2012)

I'm sorry, am I right in thinking you've spent £12,000 on a 2000 Audi TT?


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

RDH said:


> I'm sorry, am I right in thinking you've spent £12,000 on a 2000 Audi TT?


Ive spent more than tripple that Id guess :wink:


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## RDH (Sep 7, 2012)

Thats insane, I'd of thrown the towel in alot sooner personally! Hopefully it is worth it all when you get it back.


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

RDH said:


> I'm sorry, am I right in thinking you've spent £12,000 on a 2000 Audi TT?


Minus the car itself I've spent roughly 9k on a 2000 plate Audi TT mostly in repairs. Obviously not in .one go but one problem led to another and the costs climbed. It's safe to say that I won't be seeing half that amount back if I decide to sell up, but i guess I have fallen in love with the TT and already knew that its something I have to finish. I havent really had chance to enjoy the car as I've only done 2000 miles since ownership this time last year but hopefully it will be all worthwhile in the end


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Right, work is full steam ahead on getting this car back on the road,

I will be adding pictures as we go along,

Motor out and ready for work,









Most of the motor stripped, just ready for the crank and pistons to come out,


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

The damaged bore,









The damaged piston!(Yes that is the con rod you can see through the hole)









Well this is by far the most melted piston i have ever seen. It has melted so much it actually has marked the con rod! My advise when the misfire starts don't keep your foot in!

The block is off to the machine shop later on this afternoon and i'll post up some more pics when it comes back!


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## TT SMITHY (Jan 18, 2011)

Woo that piston is properly fried !


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## SonyVaio (Jul 25, 2012)

Ouch baby - very OUCH!

Nice to see the build is well under way, keep the updates coming - all very interesting.


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Ok the block is back and looking very lovely indeed 



















It'll be a few more days before i have some more info, just waiting for the shells and rings now.


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## SonyVaio (Jul 25, 2012)

SWEET!

Thanks for the update John, kee them coming.


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Nearly all that parts here, just waiting for some thrust washers because we ended up getting sent the wrong ones!

Block on the stand, ready for work.



















Crank










Box of bits


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Fascinating insight guys. I hope it turns out well Saz.


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## SonyVaio (Jul 25, 2012)

How is the patient doing??


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

It's doing ok, just had a set of shells come in wrong so i'm just waiting on a new set before we can crack on some more. The crank is in it now and some of the ancillaries have been fitted too.










Hopefully i'll have a bit more done towards the end of the week,


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

Bloody hell I thought my build was slow :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I know, I know its all about keeping costs down :wink:


----------



## TT_Guy (Jan 9, 2011)

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I hope it gets sorted soon. God knows you have waited long enough. Good luck.

Neil


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

This is coming along nicely, luckily in the mean time I bought an Audi A4 on Mercedes Amg wheels lowered all round till thisbis finished... Then the A4 will be up for sale


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## SonyVaio (Jul 25, 2012)

Is this thing not back on the road yet?? 

Just wanting to see the final outcome but I supose you can't rush a proper job.

I do look forward to seeing the finished article.


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

SonyVaio said:


> Is this thing not back on the road yet??
> 
> Just wanting to see the final outcome but I supose you can't rush a proper job.
> 
> I do look forward to seeing the finished article.


It's not back on the road yet no, but I did say to them to take their time and run everything in properly ready for collection. I rather wait and hopefully have the most looked into TT on the planet or another rebuild that won't have the gurantee of this one


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## Hjtt (Oct 19, 2012)

sazismail said:


> This is coming along nicely, luckily in the mean time I bought an Audi A4 on Mercedes Amg wheels lowered all round till thisbis finished... Then the A4 will be up for sale


the a4 is looking good m8


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Just trying to free up some time now to get the motor refitted. Hopefully one day next week it'll be back up and running.





































Getting there slowly 8)


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

8)


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## carsmad43 (Dec 4, 2008)

Wow just read the thread and like some of the other guys it turned my stomach . Think I'd be seeing a solicitor regarding the Indy as the rebuild should be under warranty 'm8 [smiley=argue.gif] And I would have sold it on or broke it for parts , I admire your perseverance m8 and all the best with it


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## Audiphil (Oct 23, 2012)

John, hope all goes well you are clearly placing a lot of time and thought into getting this sorted.

Phil


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Audiphil said:


> John, hope all goes well you are clearly placing a lot of time and thought into getting this sorted.
> 
> Phil


Thanks Phil,

Cheers John


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Managed to get quite a few hours on the beast yesterday. Motor is mounted in there but definitely in need of a bit more TLC.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

8) getting there.
Steve


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Yes, it's starting to look like a car again. We're not full stem ahead with this as Saz is only wanting to collect it in early January. At least we'll have plenty of time to run it in and make 100% sure everything is perfect


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

AwesomeJohn said:


> Yes, it's starting to look like a car again. We're not full stem ahead with this as Saz is only wanting to collect it in early January. At least we'll have plenty of time to run it in and make 100% sure everything is perfect


I am missing the car loads but I know patience is the key. I would love to have it back next week or so but the last thing I want is for awesome to rush it for finishing before they close for Christmas. A month or so will be sufficient I believe for awesome to run the engine in and maybe even to put it on the rollers to rule out any issues. Also while the car is their I have a few things I would like to add which makes it ideal as its not very local to me 

Hopefully this car will be at a few shows next year as it didn't make it to any yet so I have a lot planned over the next few months including new wheels, vinyl wrap and some interior work doing.

John has been a tremondous help and hopefully over the next few months we will be able to progress with the car a lot more once this is out the way.


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## Audiphil (Oct 23, 2012)

Saz, won't you have fun once its ready, it's a nice run back from Manc to Derbyshire.

Phil

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

Audiphil said:


> Saz, won't you have fun once its ready, it's a nice run back from Manc to Derbyshire.
> 
> Phil
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Haha it is a nice drive, it all depends on whether theirs traffic or not, last time I fetched the car, it was raining, rush hour and a nightmare on the way back


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## Audiphil (Oct 23, 2012)

hi Saz, hope the mods go,we'll, try for collection on a Saturday when you can clear the M60 traffic, keep us posted on the car and all the best

Phil

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

sazismail said:


> Haha it is a nice drive, it all depends on whether theirs traffic or not, last time I fetched the car, it was raining, rush hour and a nightmare on the way back


The car's a nice drive too.

I was stuck on the M25 two weeks ago Friday lunchtime (one hour to do eight miles pass Gatwick) and even when it started raining and I had to put the roof up it was still a nice place to be!


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

Thank you very much for all the support and comments. I will have to collect on a saturday anyway as i'm working monday to friday.

I may be getting a few little extra's whilst it there. Breaking my audi A4 this weekend to raise some extra cash.

Anyone know of a good place to get my car MOT'd as during its stay at awesome, it has ran out. Will have to book it in for somewhere close to awesome gti so that i can legally drive the car there to get it tested. It shouldnt fail as it has only done about 800 miles or so since its last MOT.


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## Audiphil (Oct 23, 2012)

Hi Saz,

May be worth asking awesome to recommend local garage if not I use Davyhulme Mot centre on Lostock road several times previously who is fair and open Saturdays 2 minutes from M60 junction 9, but gets busy so be worth booking.

Good look

Phil

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## gvij (Jan 27, 2011)

This thread is complete madness imho. If it was me Id be 
1. remapping to standard Audi map, I dont trust that any tuner can do a better job than Audi with their research and development budget as well as protection of their reputation with reliability.
2 getting an engine out of a car I heard running preferably, change the belt tensioners and water pump.
3 paying someone 500 quid to bolt it in.
4 job done!

To each their own I suppose.


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## Audiphil (Oct 23, 2012)

Saz, any news on the car?

Phil

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

Audiphil said:



> Saz, any news on the car?
> 
> Phil
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The car is still undergoing work, it should hopefully all be ready for collection first week of January, gives them time to run the engine in, run tests etc to make sure its running perfectly especially with the new apr remap I've opted for too... Also gives me time to save up enough money to cover the costs as it looks like liability is down to me


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

sazismail said:


> Also gives me time to save up enough money to cover the costs as it looks like liability is down to me


That is very surprising. I thought Awesome might have sorted you out here


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

sazismail said:


> Also gives me time to save up enough money to cover the costs as it looks like liability is down to me


Out of interest how can 'blame' be apportioned already since what Awesome stated earlier in the thread has not happened yet.....

_'The only way I can see us definitely coming up with a definite cause is to have the engine repaired and the car running so we can spend an amount of time what could cause the car to run lean enough to cause the failure.'_

Can I ask what exactly they have told you was the cause of the failure?


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## mab (Sep 2, 2002)

And what of the independent review of the map...?


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

L33JSA said:


> sazismail said:
> 
> 
> > Also gives me time to save up enough money to cover the costs as it looks like liability is down to me
> ...


This is correct. The conversation i had with Saz was that after seeing the piston it was looking like it had been driven hard while it was missfiring to the point where he had blown if up and with the stock map on there i find it highly unlikely that we will find anything wrong with it. Just my opinion and we will find out soon enough as it it looking like the car will be drivable by this weekend.



mab said:


> And what of the independent review of the map...?


Just that the map wasn't particularity safe and that in certain circumstances it could have been dangerous although there was not one specific thing that could be identified as being a major issue.


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

AwesomeJohn said:


> This is correct. The conversation i had with Saz was that after seeing the piston it was looking like it had been driven hard while it was missfiring to the point where he had blown if up and with the stock map on there i find it highly unlikely that we will find anything wrong with it. Just my opinion and we will find out soon enough as it it looking like the car will be drivable by this weekend.


Presumably though.....you returned his car to him in this state of 'misfiring'.I'm not sure I agree with what you are saying here as Saz may not have realised that the car was misfiring. The engine may not actually of been audibly misfiring despite the state of the piston. I've been in cars in the past that have had pistons and liners fail and unless you are tuned in to what detonation sounds like you have no idea there's anything wrong until you have smoke pouring out the back.



AwesomeJohn said:



> Just that the map wasn't particularity safe and that in certain circumstances it could have been dangerous although there was not one specific thing that could be identified as being a major issue.


This to me leaves a definite air of 'doubt' about the whole thing and infact if the damage already existed to a certain point when the engine was fitted. I do recall you saying earlier on in the thread what would happen if there was indeed any doubt.


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

You presume wrong. And considering there was even sign's of the rod starting to melt and it had got so hot that the dipstick tube had started to melt there is 100% no doubt that this car has started to run very poorly for quite a noticeable amount of time before it got to the point where it was undriveable.

I thought i had already posted this pic but i've just looked back through the thread and couldn't find it.









That stands about what i said about if any doubt. However it will not cover the car being driven to destruction and negligence is no excuse.


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

AwesomeJohn said:


> You presume wrong. And considering there was even sign's of the rod starting to melt and it had got so hot that the dipstick tube had started to melt there is 100% no doubt that this car has started to run very poorly for quite a noticeable amount of time before it got to the point where it was undriveable.
> 
> I thought i had already posted this pic but i've just looked back through the thread and couldn't find it.
> 
> ...


John,
I haven't re read the whole thread, this has been going on for a few months so excuse me if I got it wrong but didn't this failure happen a few days after awesome had fitted a new engine etc. How would someone drive a car to destruction in a few days - surely that would require a complete and utter lack of mechanical sympathy, bouncing of the limiter etc with no oil in the car. Isn't it more likely that something failed?

I am not trying to wind you up here, just keen to know how this could happen, god knows I am paranoid enough with all my bloody gauges to watch.


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Ok, there is the final straw!Can't keep going over and over this any more. Time for the truth!

The car left here running mint with no issues after a number of checks and road tests including me driving it,

Saz took the car and did a few hundred miles in it with no problems!

What he failed to tell you was that one night when he was a bit skint he went and chucked a fiver's worth of cheap fuel in then proceeded to race one of his friends flat out at 140 - 150mph (obviously on a private race track). When the car started to show signs of poor running he kept his foot in and kept going till it stopped! Saz didn't know i knew this until now. It's a small world sometimes. You abuse any car enough you can kill it, even if it's brand new!

It gives me a clear explanation of how the car could run lean and melt a piston.

Anyone remember this Ferrari video.





I really didn't want this to come out (and am still thinking i shouldn't be posting this as i am writing it) and wanted to keep it private and make it quite clear on this thread that we will always do what is best and right by our customers and at the same time we will not be taken for a ride. Unfortunately this huge issue has not been able to kept private as it is here for all to see on a public forum.

[smiley=gossip.gif]


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Well that's put the cat amongst the pidgeons


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Well i thought it might James :?

Oh, and just to add this still doesn't change that if there is anything highlighted when the car is finally up and running that would have done the same damage we wouldn't cover it cause we will! I just can't see it to be honest.

This is the car now,








Just need to know if it still has any MOT left on it so we can drive it?


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## NoMark (Jul 6, 2011)

AwesomeJohn said:


> Ok, there is the final straw!Can't keep going over and over this any more. Time for the truth!
> 
> The car left here running mint with no issues after a number of checks and road tests including me driving it,
> 
> ...


Bloody hell John!

If that's true, and I have no reason to doubt what you are saying, that does indeed shed a whole new light on the subject.

I admire the fact that you've kept this to yourself for so long, after all, Awesome's reputation has been called into question here and to not tell people the whole story could have had big consequences for your company.

Looking at the state of the piston, I feel even the most mechanically unsympathetic amongst us would have to have known something was wrong for that much damage to occur.

I hope you and Saz are able to come to a mutually acceptable result.

Mark.


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Thanks Mark,

Myself and Saz have been getting on very well and since i found out the whole story i didn't let on to him i knew. Like the other post says it's still not 100% that is the case and this is why i have always said to Saz we need to wait and see what the score is once the car is back together but don't be surprised if nothing comes to light.



> Awesome's reputation has been called into question here and to not tell people the whole story could have had big consequences for your company.


This is why i have let it all out rather than go back over it all again.


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

AwesomeJohn said:


> What he failed to tell you was that one night when he was a bit skint he went and chucked a fiver's worth of cheap fuel in then proceeded to race one of his friends flat out at 140 - 150mph (obviously on a private race track). When the car started to show signs of poor running he kept his foot in and kept going till it stopped! Saz didn't know i knew this until now. It's a small world sometimes. You abuse any car enough you can kill it, even if it's brand new!
> 
> It gives me a clear explanation of how the car could run lean and melt a piston.


....and on that note I'm out.

Saz.........I can quite honestly say you are a 100% prize bellend, after all the help, advice etc that I've given you on here, me and others sticking up for you and you couldn't even be open & honest with what happened. You deserve every last penny of those £12k bills plus whatever Awesome are about to throw at you. :roll: :roll: My sympathy is over.

John - Just as I've been honest with Saz, I'm going to be honest with you too. Apologies for all the s*** that's gone on in the thread - clearly I had no idea of the full story as you did. Peace out!


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## TT225C (Nov 14, 2012)

sazismail said:


> Thank you very much for all the support and comments. I will have to collect on a saturday anyway as i'm working monday to friday.
> 
> I may be getting a few little extra's whilst it there. Breaking my audi A4 this weekend to raise some extra cash.
> 
> Anyone know of a good place to get my car MOT'd as during its stay at awesome, it has ran out. Will have to book it in for somewhere close to awesome gti so that i can legally drive the car there to get it tested. It shouldnt fail as it has only done about 800 miles or so since its last MOT.


To answer your question John, MOTs out.

Reading through this post its unbelievable why someone did what they did. And im glad its come out because some comments made before can easily ruin a business. Well done John for biting the bullet!


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

AwesomeJohn said:


> Ok, there is the final straw!Can't keep going over and over this any more. Time for the truth!
> 
> The car left here running mint with no issues after a number of checks and road tests including me driving it,
> 
> ...


Ok, well that would certainly come under total lack of mechanical sympathy. Maybe the OP should have just told everyone from the outset that they screwed their own car 

The story finally makes some sense though.


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## Audiphil (Oct 23, 2012)

John,

Throughout this thread you have received some harsh comments and throughout this time played fair and retained your integrity.

Saz, if you were responsible for the damage, why did allow John's business reputation to be put into question on this forum?


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## Garth (Feb 7, 2012)

This reminds me of one of my good friend's Nova when I was about 20. I fitted a new engine for him because his blew up. A few weeks later, he was back for a new one as his had developed a hole the size of a tennis ball in the bottom end! The way he drove, there was not even a mention of who was at fault- we both knew it. I fitted a third (and bigger) engine for him and he ran it in to the ground :-(


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## Garth (Feb 7, 2012)

sazismail said:


> Dalett said:
> 
> 
> > Not being funny saz but seems you're playing the sympathy card. Every time i see you and your mates you thrash the living hell outta all of your cars and have poor maintenance on them. Read all 6 pages and i do feel for you but try looking after it more :roll:
> ...


:roll:


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## GroverUK (Dec 2, 2010)

Well I can honestly say I didn't see that coming. Its like that lost tv series, went on far too long with a curve ball thrown it at the end. Just hope it dosnt turn into a witch hunt now. :?


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## Jay-225 (Mar 7, 2012)

Was the knock sensor not working on the car? was the ecu mapped to only run on 99ron fuel ? i can't see how only putting in £5 of 95ron? would cause so much damage when there are sensors in place to stop such things happening unless of course they were not doing what they are suppose to...

I pretty much alway run on 99ron but was out one night with friends and was very low on fuel and the only thing i could put in was normal 95 so banged in £20, then drove the car very very hard and didn't have any problems at all apart from it feeling a little flat so don't understand how saz's would explode from doing the same type of thing :?

Will admit that saz's car history doesn't sound too promising :roll:


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## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

You need to treat an engine rebuilt like a new engine I would think, gently until the parts have bedded-in. It's a scaled-up version of running the skin off new tyres. A good engine will get better with age.


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## kazinak (Mar 23, 2010)

AwesomeJohn said:


> What he failed to tell you was that one night when he was a bit skint he went and chucked a fiver's worth of cheap fuel in then proceeded to race one of his friends flat out at 140 - 150mph (obviously on a private race track)


He had no money on fuel, but he could afford to pay for the private race track...

Sounds like true story 

Btw, since when the Fiat can do 150mph?

Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2


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## Greddyl30pjg (Dec 31, 2009)

Well...if the donations didnt stop at the mention of the 3 weeks Dubai..or the new A4, i imagine that they have now!! :lol:

Excuse me for asking, i dont want to stoke the fire, i'm genuinely curious. The engine that went in wasnt a rebuilt one right? 80k, well serviced? Should it go pop whilst giving at a bit of stick with 95ron juice??

Understand if it hadnt been ran in. Also understand that a mapped car may be more sensitive to lower quality fuel, is this one of the main contributing factors? In summary, s*** map, poor fuel... and some abuse (much more abuse than a quick squirt ...)????

Hats off to Awesome.


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

cars gone in for an mot, hopefully tests will be able to begin upon return.


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## sazismail (Aug 7, 2011)

I didn't even read the comments before and the information of me racing someone at 140-150 is ridiculous, care to share who was the idiot i was racing because not only would we be putting lives at risk, the car has just had a new rebuild, i know it needs running in for the first 100 miles or so. Not only does it sound outrageous but it also sounds like someone out there passing on information to awesome gti falsely. It certainly not something i would of bragged about on facebook or anything because i dont want my license taken off me. I have never been on a race track may i add in any car, this is still something i wouldnt try in the car.

I would also like to mention that I have the paperwork from the AA stating my location of when the car was picked up and this is still probably in the glove box of the TT. You couldn't even get to 50 without writing the car off, it was recovered on a public road and just coming onto the A38 from Hilton to Burton on trent for anyone with geographical knowledge.

The cheap fuel maybe as the locally we have a sainsbury's and morrisons for choice, we live in a small town. The A4 was bought on finance as i required it for work and without a car, i wouldnt be able to pay for the repairs, and its nothing special, its a 1996 diesel auto, to keep costs down. The trip to dubai was to visit my father who lives out there as he was not in the best health. Not a holiday, but regardless, he's my dad.

But more to the point, I am not an idiot, the car has never even been on the limiter as with any car, as this will damage it. The fact the car has a turbo means i always let it warm up and cool down as advised.

I dont know where this information has come from but it now makes me look like a c**t because everyone has been so helpful. There's nothing about it publically because i know i didn't write anything like that. However, just maybe, someone faked it, i'm a graphic design expert may i add, and its not difficult to fake for example a conversion between two people.... just a thought.

The picture people are getting now is probably that i am some t**t living down some rough ends who doesn't deserve a TT. I am a educated individual with a masters degree who is as passionate about his TT as much as everyone else on here.

I have been working 9am to 5pm iny my day job, followed by a 6pm to 2am night shift in a warehouse to pay for the repairs this time, i am hugely passionate about the car and wouldn't be giving everything i got to put it back on the road. I initially took out a loan to pay for the first repair, which was through my mum, i have literally given it everything to keep this car on the road where every one else has been against me and said cut my losses and sell the car. That's enthusiasm and dedication. I am not going to get even half what i spent on the car if i sold it, i know that, you all know that.

The relationship me and john have has been great and i will continue to use awesome regardless. All i wanted is for my car back with the help and advise of this forum.

I


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

It's your money Saz and you spend how you wish, got sod all to do with anyone else on here, I dare say a few of us have other expensive vices so I wouldn't worry about any negative comments from the odd one or two who should know better.


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## cam69 (Dec 22, 2011)

How is the car now its back ? I can relate to having the car of the road for such a long time for a engine rebuild i could not wait to get mine back.


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