# The TT Forums relationship to the TTOC (Clarification -IMHO)



## Bartsimpsonhead

Ok, by way on an explanation this thread was started in the Events section asking if TT Forum members would like to meet up at an _'Audis in the Park'_ event at Billing Aquadrome on 9th August 2015.

That original thread is here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1019937

After a lot of comments took the thread completely off-track it was decided to split the thread in two.

Here is the second half of that thread explaining how I see the TT Forums relationship with the TTOC, and why it should be free to organise its own events.


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## Nem

### Mod edit: Continued from here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1019937 ###



Bartsimpsonhead said:


> ...as you don't appear to be a member of the TTOC they won't allow you to park on their stand anyway (non-members aren't welcome).


Is it possible just for once for you to not put such a negative spin on everything TTOC related?

"Non-members are not welcome" is not correct.

"Non-members are not entitled" is correct.

You just seem to choose the statement which sounds worse every time.

:/


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## TT Owners Club

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> ToonToon said:
> 
> 
> 
> OOps sorry thought this was a TTOC stand could you please remove me
> 
> 
> 
> Actually ToonToon, as you don't appear to be a member of the TTOC they won't allow you to park on their stand anyway (non-members aren't welcome).
> 
> But if you change your mind then you're free to park with us. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Click to expand...

Having checked our records I can confirm they are a member of the worlds greatest TT Club and like any other member old or new are more than welcome on our stand.


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## Bartsimpsonhead

Nem said:


> Bartsimpsonhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...as you don't appear to be a member of the TTOC they won't allow you to park on their stand anyway (non-members aren't welcome).
> 
> 
> 
> Is it possible just for once for you to not put such a negative spin on everything TTOC related?
> 
> "Non-members are not welcome" is not correct.
> 
> "Non-members are not entitled" is correct.
> 
> You just seem to choose the statement which sounds worse every time.
> 
> :/
Click to expand...

Thanks for the correction - it wasn't meant to sound so negative, just stating that non-members aren't "entitled" to park on the OC pitch.

But then, is it correct for *"ToonToon"*, or to give him his correct name '(Andrew) *Wallsendmag* _(TTOC Membership Secretary)_' to post under an old account of his, say he's going, and then a few minutes later retract that statement? 
One would assume to discourage and discredit my attempt to get Forum members to come together as a group.

When members who've registered on the Forum years ago suddenly pop-up and start posting negative comments my alarm bells start ringing&#8230;
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=53747&p=583492#p583492


ToonToon said:


> Kell said:
> 
> 
> 
> two more added.
> 
> I'll pm everybody with their respective 'victim' tomorrow.
> 
> Just thought though, I'm going to have to tell someone to buy something for me.
> 
> 
> 
> _Can you send it to me instead of wallsendmag_ bit of a balls up on my behalf updating my email address
Click to expand...

The really sad thing is, is this the sort of dishonest behaviour OC members are expected to accept from their elected Committee members?


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## Bartsimpsonhead

TT Owners Club said:


> Bartsimpsonhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ToonToon said:
> 
> 
> 
> OOps sorry thought this was a TTOC stand could you please remove me
> 
> 
> 
> Actually ToonToon, as you don't appear to be a member of the TTOC they won't allow you to park on their stand anyway (non-members aren't welcome).
> 
> But if you change your mind then you're free to park with us. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Having checked our records I can confirm they are a member of the worlds greatest TT Club and like any other member old or new are more than welcome on our stand.
Click to expand...

You have checked? To whom am I addressing behind the cloak of anonymity that is 'TT Owners Club' - Wallsendmag himself?

You say :


TT Owners Club said:


> &#8230; like any other member old or new are more than welcome on our stand.


Does that include old members who's membership's expired? Or just the old ones who continue to pay for the privilege?


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## Nem

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> The really sad thing is, is this the sort of dishonest behaviour OC members are expected to accept from their elected Committee members?


I'll leave that for you to discuss.

However it was perfectly acceptable behaviour for your self appointed TT forum rep.

It's a shame there was never an election or even discussion for members to get involved in that decision and dani was all of a sudden given a title, some members might have had a problem with that choice.


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## Bartsimpsonhead

Nem said:


> Bartsimpsonhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> The really sad thing is, is this the sort of dishonest behaviour OC members are expected to accept from their elected Committee members?
> 
> 
> 
> I'll leave that for you to discuss.
> 
> However it was perfectly acceptable behaviour for your self appointed TT forum rep.
> 
> It's a shame there was never an election or even discussion for members to get involved in that decision and dani was all of a sudden given a title, some members might have had a problem with that choice.
Click to expand...

The thing is, most people don't pay a sum of money to buy-into, or own a little piece of, the Forum as they do the OC.
(*Unless it's to pay for the window sticker/marketplace compensation fund.)

And you seem to be under the illusion the Forum is a 'democracy' - it isn't. It's a business.

A business owned by TyreForums, and like many of their other websites is run to make money from advertising for them. And as they make their running costs/profits out of advertising, is offered to its Forum users for free*.

As such, they (TyreForums) have the right to appoint people to oversee how the Forum is run, and who is appointed to represent it. They (the Admin, Moderators and Reps of the Forum) are not accountable to anyone other than TyreForums. And I think most Forum users are ok with that as long as the Admin, Mods and Reps act in a fare and honest manner when dealing with Forum members, their posts, and their behaviour to each other. As Bill and Ted used to say "_Be most excellent to each other, dudes!"_
And if you're not happy with that then I guess there are other forums you could use.

As the TTOC is paid for by its members, they (the OC membership) are granting you (The Committee and its Reps) a yearly mandate to run the Club in their name, and with their money, so you are therefore accountable to them and expected to run the Club in a fare and honest way. A democratic way would be nice, if not wholly expected too.

Which given Wallsendmags earlier action of posting under an old account not associated with him by the wider Forum community, and then withdrawing his request as he probably had little or no intention of attending anyway, I would say is dishonest, doesn't represent the Club in a fare and honest way, and was done with the sole intention of diswading general Forum members from attending as a group. It does make me wonder actually how many people have more than one account, and post under an alias to rubbish certain threads or bump-up the numbers on others...

As the TTOC, it seems to me you're getting greedy, you want it all, and are prepared to use dirty tricks to get it. 
I like to look at myself in the mirror in the morning with a clear conscience, so I want no part of it.

Which is why I'm undertaking to organise a meeting of those of us who aren't "entitled" to park on the OC's pitch, but who still wish to attend as a social group.

*So - who's in for a little Audis in the Park action..? *

[smiley=mexicanwave.gif]


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## Lollypop86

But people are paying for stickers and access to the marketplace of which is supposed to be going towards a compensation fund......as far as I knew those stickers were still not paid for with the amount that have been sold so how can there be a compensation fund? Does this money go into a paypal or account set up by the forum owners or a personal one? hmm

J
xx


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## Bartsimpsonhead

Sorry Jessica, I'm not sure what you're asking here?


Lollypop86 said:


> But people are paying for stickers and access to the marketplace of which is supposed to be going towards a compensation fund...


As far as I can gather, that's the idea of the stickers/compensation fund - people pay £5 to John, John gets their details (real name, address, email address via PayPal, etc) to confirm they're real people, sends them a TT Forum window sticker, and puts the remainder of the £5 (minus sticker printing costs) into some sort of account. It might remain in a TTF PayPal account, or some other account, you'd have to ask John for details.



Lollypop86 said:


> ...as far as I knew those stickers were still not paid for with the amount that have been sold so how can there be a compensation fund?


Er, not sure what you mean here - do you mean you've been talking to the printers and they've told you the stickers haven't been paid for? Or despite the money being collected the £5 isn't enough to cover the printing and leave enough for the compensation fund?



Lollypop86 said:


> Does this money go into a paypal or account set up by the forum owners or a personal one? hmm


Again, as above, you'd have to ask John.

Personally I think the compensation fund is a great idea, and IIRC some who have been ripped off by rouge sellers have already received compensation. Certainly it helps confirm people are who they say they are - though possibly not the ones with more than one profile 
But remember - people can still gain access to the marketplace without paying into the compensation fund and providing their personal details. To paraphrase the saying... "You pays your money, or you takes your chances..."


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## Lollypop86

my point is your mud slinging can be slung back at you.......just saying word on street is that for the volume of the stickers printed that cost has not been covered by the number of people who have paid for them, you know hearsay and all that 

Did the forum owners set up a paypal then?

J
xx


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## A3DFU

Am I correct in thinking this thread is entitled _Audis in the Park (AitP) with the TT Forum_?


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## jamman

A3DFU said:


> Am I correct in thinking this thread is entitled _Audis in the Park (AitP) with the TT Forum_?


Titled that Dani but never let a title get in the way of a good old fashioned fallout involving the usual suspects, I blame Jess and will discipline(spank) her next time I see her, no charge.


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## Nem

A3DFU said:


> Am I correct in thinking this thread is entitled _Audis in the Park (AitP) with the TT Forum_?


Correct you are.


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## Lollypop86

jamman said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> Am I correct in thinking this thread is entitled _Audis in the Park (AitP) with the TT Forum_?
> 
> 
> 
> Titled that Dani but never let a title get in the way of a good old fashioned fallout involving the usual suspects, I blame Jess and will discipline(spank) her next time I see her, no charge.
Click to expand...

lol is that a promise?

J
xx


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## Bartsimpsonhead

Lollypop86 said:


> my point is your mud slinging can be slung back at you.......just saying word on street is that for the volume of the stickers printed that cost has not been covered by the number of people who have paid for them, you know hearsay and all that
> 
> Did the forum owners set up a paypal then?
> 
> J
> xx


Sorry Jessica - it was never my intention to start 'mud-slinging' at the OC. In fact it was a very sincere desire to assemble a Forum presence at AitP as we are not "entitled" to join the OC stand. I'll be attending anyway, and wished other Forum members to join me in what I know is a fabulous day out.

If ToonToon/Wallsendmag hadn't tried to sabotage the thread, and Nick chip in with his comments, then I'm sure it would've stayed on track and all of this could have been avoided.

Unfortunately, there are elements within the TTOC Committee who still seem to want total control of all events and meetings organised by, and associated with the OC and the Forum. I think they see it as some sort of right that only they can have control over these events and meetings. Otherwise why would they try to sabotage this thread where the Forum has an independent presence at an event?

The continued 'mud-slinging' directed towards John and Dani is pitiful - yes, I understand there has been history between them and the OC Committee in the past (from when they used to be part of the Committee, and Nick was a Forum Mod prior to Jai selling it to TyreForums), but the Committee's continued attempts to discredit them and undermine their positions as Forum Admin and Promoter is sickening. And hasn't gone unnoticed by others. I have received a number of messages from Forum members expressing their disgust with the OC, with one person (who shall remain anonymous) stating _"I was unsure (about joining the TTOC), but now I know I'm definitely NOT going to join." _
So the more the OC act in this petty manner the more they damage their chances of recruiting members.

Re: the stickers - the 'word' I have heard is that all of the initial run of stickers has nearly sold-out, and a new order has been placed for more. Due to Johns association with a sh*t-hot Graphic Designer  and his contacts within the industry, take it from me that the cost of the stickers has now been greatly reduced, and the quality increased. This of course means that more money will be available for the Forum Compensation Fund.
As for the PayPal - you'd have to ask the Forum owners/Admin/John.


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## Bartsimpsonhead

A3DFU said:


> Am I correct in thinking this thread is entitled _Audis in the Park (AitP) with the TT Forum_?


Well, that was the idea!


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## Bartsimpsonhead

jamman said:


> &#8230;I blame Jess and will discipline(spank) her next time I see her, no charge.


Well, if you're looking for a raffle prize to raise money for charity, I can think there'd be a few people interested in this&#8230;


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## Bartsimpsonhead

Nem said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> Am I correct in thinking this thread is entitled _Audis in the Park (AitP) with the TT Forum_?
> 
> 
> 
> Correct you are.
Click to expand...

You're not wrogn


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## Lollypop86

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> Sorry Jessica - it was never my intention to start 'mud-slinging' at the OC.


Yet you quite happily do it on other threads....righto got your card marked along with Les and a couple of others and FYI anyone who wants to "spank" me can tell me to my face infact see you at the rolling road day or even AITP see what you have to say for yourself then 

J
xx


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## jamman

Lollypop86 said:


> Bartsimpsonhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Jessica - it was never my intention to start 'mud-slinging' at the OC.
> 
> 
> 
> Yet you quite happily do it on other threads....righto got your card marked along with Les and a couple of others and FYI anyone who wants to "spank" me can tell me to my face infact see you at the rolling road day or even AITP see what you have to say for yourself then
> 
> J
> xx
Click to expand...

I will spank you and I won't ask permission Jessica :wink:


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## Bartsimpsonhead

Lollypop86 said:


> Bartsimpsonhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Jessica - it was never my intention to start 'mud-slinging' at the OC.
> 
> 
> 
> Yet you quite happily do it on other threads....
Click to expand...

I may have commented on other threads, but the provocation for those comments has come from things other people have said where they have insulted, insinuated, hi-jacked, or run a continued smear campaign against other people. They are the instigators - I am just standing up for myself and what I see as the rights of Forum members to organise ourselves in social activities should we wish to. This sh*t is supposed to be fun!!! But apparently we're not allowed to have fun unless the OC are flying a flag over it. :x

I'm sick and tired of the TTOCs tricks and bully-boy tac-tics, and from the messages I've received so far so are a lot of other people. It seems quit a few people won't be renewing their memberships this year.



Lollypop86 said:


> ...and FYI anyone who wants to "spank" me can tell me to my face infact see you at the rolling road day or even AITP see what you have to say for yourself then


Sorry, it was meant as a joke - that James might raffle you off at the Rolling Road Day. You'll be happy to know you're not my type and I wouldn't touch you with a barge-pole.

I'm not sure who "Les" is (is that their Forum name?), but they sound like a fairly decent sort of person.


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## warrenstuart

Did someone mention spanking 

Anyway back on track who else is going to AITP or is it just the 3 (possibly 4 if sTTacey gets her ass into gear!) of us??

Warren.


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## Bartsimpsonhead

Yes, this post need to be tidied up and got back on track!

Still a while off yet, but if anyone else fancies meeting up for a nice sunny/rainy day out, then please lets know. [smiley=sunny.gif]


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## John-H

I'm sure members are getting fed up with this. Stop causing trouble. Any further personal attacks or attempts to discredit organisers trying to provide event support to forum members will not be tolerated - you have been warned.

The thread has now been split in order to allow the AITP thread to continue here for the purposes of organising a fun event. Please keep on topic.


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## John-H

I've split the thread now so the organising of the AITP event can continue *on topic* on the sticky *here*


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## Wallsendmag

pcmac said:


> I'm coming along on this day, would be great to park up with TTOC if there's space
> 
> 
> 
> Mac


Plenty of room on our stand , put your name down on this thread

viewtopic.php?f=185&t=804217

Don't forget to buy your discounted ticket from the club shop www.ttoc.co.uk/shop


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## Bartsimpsonhead

pcmac said:


> I'm coming along on this day, would be great to park up with TTOC if there's space
> 
> 
> 
> Mac


Hi pcmac, if you want to park on the TTOC stand you will have to first join the TTOC at a new-membership rate of £25 to be entitled to park with them, then buy you 'TTOC Member discounted ticket' from them for a further £5.

But you are welcome to just park with us on the TT Forum stand by buying a ticket direct from AitP (link on the first page) for £8, with AitP donating £1 of that to Great Ormand Street Children's Hospital. (I could be wrong but I don't think the TTOC are donating any money to charity?!?)

It's obviously completely up to you, but if you want to park with the TTF then please let's know...

Cheers.

Tsk-tsk Wallsendmag/ToonToon - you left out the membership cost.


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## Nem

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> ... with AitP donating £1 of that to Great Ormand Street Children's Hospital. (I could be wrong but I don't think the TTOC are donating any money to charity?!?)


As usual, you are wrong.

We are buying tickets direct from Calvin so the exact same is being donated to charity by him for any tickets we buy and resell at our reduced member price.

Not that much will be raised by the TT Forum's contribution judging from todays lack of support from forum members at GTi International.


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## Bartsimpsonhead

Little wonder I'm mistaken, Nick, for as far as I've read you've not stated anywhere any donation is being made to charity. That's bad PR. You should publicise that fact. Like Smashy & Nicey - _"...doing a lot of good work for chiradee mate!"_


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## Nem

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> Little wonder I'm mistaken, Nick, for as far as I've read you've not stated anywhere any donation is being made to charity. You should publicise that fact. Like Smashy & Nicey - _"...doing a lot of good work for chiradee mate!"_


I'm lost, Audis in the Park are making the donation for each ticket they sell, thats not controlled by the TTOC in any way.

So why would we make any announcement?


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## Bartsimpsonhead

Nem said:


> Bartsimpsonhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Little wonder I'm mistaken, Nick, for as far as I've read you've not stated anywhere any donation is being made to charity. You should publicise that fact. Like Smashy & Nicey - _"...doing a lot of good work for chiradee mate!"_
> 
> 
> 
> I'm lost, Audis in the Park are making the donation for each ticket they sell, thats not controlled by the TTOC in any way.
> 
> So why would we make any announcement?
Click to expand...

Er, to let people know that they're helping a children's charity by supporting and attending an event? Give them the ole feel-good factor? Just because it's not something directly organised by the club doesn't mean it's not worthwhile promoting someone else's good deeds. I'd think anything else would be mean spirited.


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## Nem

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> Hi pcmac, if you want to park on the TTOC stand you will have to first join the TTOC at a new-membership rate of £25 to be entitled to park with them, then buy you 'TTOC Member discounted ticket' from them for a further £5.
> 
> But you are welcome to just park with us on the TT Forum stand by buying a ticket direct from AitP (link on the first page) for £8, with AitP donating £1 of that to Great Ormand Street Children's Hospital. (I could be wrong but I don't think the TTOC are donating any money to charity?!?)
> 
> It's obviously completely up to you, but if you want to park with the TTF then please let's know...
> 
> Cheers.


So you were not in fact basically saying that if you buy a ticket direct from AiTP some of that money goes to charity, but if you buy from the TTOC, as far as you knew, no money goes to charity? Because thats how your post reads.

Anyway, you're currently on for a £3 donation so thats something to be positive about.


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## A3DFU

Any donation to a good cause, however big or small, is important


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## Bartsimpsonhead

Nem said:


> Bartsimpsonhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi pcmac, if you want to park on the TTOC stand you will have to first join the TTOC at a new-membership rate of £25 to be entitled to park with them, then buy you 'TTOC Member discounted ticket' from them for a further £5.
> 
> But you are welcome to just park with us on the TT Forum stand by buying a ticket direct from AitP (link on the first page) for £8, with AitP donating £1 of that to Great Ormand Street Children's Hospital. (I could be wrong but I don't think the TTOC are donating any money to charity?!?)
> 
> It's obviously completely up to you, but if you want to park with the TTF then please let's know...
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> So you were not in fact basically saying that if you buy a ticket direct from AiTP some of that money goes to charity, but if you buy from the TTOC, as far as you knew, no money goes to charity? Because thats how your post reads.
> 
> Anyway, you're currently on for a £3 donation so thats something to be positive about.
Click to expand...

Well I, like probably 99% of the OC membership, are not party to whatever arrangement you've come to with Calvin to get discounted tickets - and as you've not promoted that any money is going to charity, I assumed you might have block-bought tickets to resell before Calvin decided to make the donation. 
Again, were I in your position I would have made a point of mentioning the charity as it would have been the right thing to do right from the start. I'd feel bad saying to him _"thanks for the discount Calvin, and good luck raising money, but I'm not going to help promote the charity for you..._ I think my soul would die a little [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## Bartsimpsonhead

Yep, £3 so far - like Tesco _"every little helps!"_


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## Nem

*Will you please stop making assumptions and basically posting false information.*

The TTOC is paying £8 for each ticket, exactly the same as any other person or group buying tickets. We then subsidise them for our paying members and sell them at £5 as a member benefit.

This is getting very, very tiresome, it's almost like you want to be spreading misinformation to make the TTOC look back.

Oh, wait...


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## Bartsimpsonhead

Nem said:


> *Will you please stop making assumptions and basically posting false information.*
> 
> The TTOC is paying £8 for each ticket, exactly the same as any other person or group buying tickets. We then subsidise them for our paying members and sell them at £5 as a member benefit.
> 
> This is getting very, very tiresome, it's almost like you want to be spreading misinformation to make the TTOC look back.
> 
> Oh, wait...


Well some people might not be aware the 'discount' is actually coming out of their own membership fee - giving their money back to them. Thanks for clearing that up.
Misinformation? Like current committee members adding themselves twice to attendee lists for events under different accounts to boost numbers going? Misinformation like then vouching for their second attendee account using a *third* user account? That kind of misinformation?
Whatever way you try to spin it, the truth will always win out.


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## Nem

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> the truth will always win out.


Backed up by photographs of the "huge demand" for TT Forums members wanting their own stands at events it very soon will do. 

Cheers.


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## Bartsimpsonhead

Nem said:


> Bartsimpsonhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> the truth will always win out.
> 
> 
> 
> Backed up by photographs of the "huge demand" for TT Forums members wanting their own stands at events it very soon will do.
> 
> Cheers.
Click to expand...

Size isn't everything Nick - if it makes you happy getting your bigger physical membership out in public then great for you. You must feel proud  I guess it's some compensation for having a tiny, er, members forum. Doesn't get much useage, eh? 

Possibly not many non-TTOC Forum members turn up for events because they've been told for a while now (by members of the TTOC) that they're not allowed to hold/attend events as a group. Which is of course wrong. As you yourself have said 
"


Nem on topic [URL=http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=185&t=804217&start=15 said:


> viewtopic.php?f=185&t=804217&start=15[/URL]":1hasymqa]Problem is that even though the option for forum members to organise their own stands is there, it's been an option for the last 10 years or more, that nobody had done until John piped up booking stands with the plain intention of annoying the TTOC. Nobody else had said they were demanding having stands at these events before hand. So you've got to see that point.


Well, as my OC membership soon expires and I won't be renewing, but I will still be attending events, if other Forum users who aren't 'entitled' to be on OC stands wish to join me in a group that would be great. So *I'm* creating a demand for the Forum booking stands at events, not just John, and not just to wind the TTOC up. Hopefully in time other Forum members will realise they can get together with other like minded souls and meet-up without having to pay £20/25 for the privilege of doing so.



Nem said:


> Anyway, I'm currently in contact with (Forum owners) Vertical Scope asking what they actually want from us and what they actually think our arrangement is between the forum and the club.


Oh btw, how's that going? Have they said you've exclusive rights to organise events? Given your statement above _("...(the right) for forum members to organise their own stands is there...")_ it seems unlikely...

_Shhhh! *whispers*Good job in avoiding defending Committee members from falsifying attendee numbers at events - well dodged. I don't think anyone noticed you sweep that one under the carpet... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]_
The truth will out.


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## Nem

Touched a nerve there did I. Lol


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## Nyxx

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> with AitP donating £1 of that to Great Ormand Street Children's Hospital. (I could be wrong but I don't think the TTOC are donating any money to charity?!?)


nor are you directly AitP is. No more or less so than the TTOC. OR you could say everyone is donating by buying a ticket. TTF is not giving any more money that the TTOC per person. But as a group if you feel that's giving to charity then the TTOC is give a lot more :roll: Just not making a big deal out of it like you.

Why dont you just advertise your events without trying to have a dig at the TTOC, you just cannot help yourself can you.
You just cannot stop waving that axe.  
-----------------------------------

Hope the 3 of you have a good day. 

----------------------------------

At Stanford Hall TTOC members got some cash back from the price of the ticket and a free Audi Key ring. Nice. Makes membership sound cheap as chips.

The forums might not get the traffic this forum does put when it come to events the TTOC members always have great turn outs sun or rain. Stanford Hall was proof of that.
The deal on money back etc is so good we even had one of the members that joined on the day drove off The TTF stand onto the TTOC as the discounts "make membership really good value for money"


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## jamman

Martin you are not doing yourself any favours.

To put it another way when I put TTOC/TTF RR Day 2015 do you know how many people complained over the months it was like that ?

One person.

Please give it a rest mate you strike me as a good bloke but mention TTOC and you go a bit odd.


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## Lollypop86

jamman said:


> Martin you go a bit odd.


*hides in the corner with fingers in ears*

J
xx


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## Bartsimpsonhead

Nick: On the contrary - I couldn't care less how big or little attendance for an event is. I don't need my ego boosting that way. Just the fact I can do it is enough.

Dave: It's great that the OC are helping Calvin donate more money to GOSH. I just wish they'd give him a hand and advertise the fact. The attitude of _'we don't benefit directly from it so won't bother to type 14 words to help advertise it'_ does seem odd to me though. Selfish even.
And I didn't start taking a dig at them - I gave additional information that Andrew/Wallsendmag/ToonToon didn't put, that the poster would have to join the club as well.
Had Wallsendmag not posted/hijacked this thread (again!) I would have explained to pcmac the difference between the two stands, and how much and where he could book depending on his preference. It's his choice.
Well, five cars actually - another one turned up late. We're growing&#8230;

James: Sorry fella, I'm just fed-up of their arrogance thinking they own this forum and the rights to organise events. If I reply to something its to clarify a situation as I see it. I am quite righteous like that. Blame my parents - they taught me not to lie, cheat or steal, and did a good job of it. It's a shame others didn't teach/learn those lessons as well. The youf of today eh?

Jess: Nobody puts baby in the corner&#8230;


----------



## malstt

jamman said:


> Martin you are not doing yourself any favours.
> 
> To put it another way when I put TTOC/TTF RR Day 2015 do you know how many people complained over the months it was like that ?
> 
> One person.
> 
> Please give it a rest mate you strike me as a good bloke but mention TTOC and you go a bit odd.


Can i guess who thee 1 on was ? I bet I can :lol:


----------



## paulw12

I have only recently joined this forum, so don't know who any of you are. I did and still do find it confusing to how the TTOC and this forum are linked. 
I went to TTOC first through google, found there wasn't much forum talk going on ,then found this forum. I don't see myself getting any value out of the £25 membership, so haven't joined as yet..

Although this thread is fantastic :lol: , I can give up watching my native TOWIE now


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## Nem

paulw12 said:


> I went to TTOC first through google, found there wasn't much forum talk going on ,then found this forum. I don't see myself getting any value out of the £25 membership, so haven't joined as yet..


If you've not yet joined the Club you can't really comment on the Members Forum as you've not got access to most of it


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## Bartsimpsonhead

I logged-on the other night for the first time in maybe a week - checked out the new post since I last logged-on - it killed 10 minutes&#8230; [smiley=zzz.gif]


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## Nem

Well, that's 10 minutes you didn't spend on here.


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## Desmodave996

Got to admit when I was looking to join an owners club when getting our TT's, the TTOC website wasn't straight forward on how to join so I didn't bother.

After getting the cars from Norfolk Performance Cars Neil set up two accounts for us free so I had a look and wasn't impressed with the content. The magazine was a nice touch but it would have been better to provide reduced subs to a 'proper mag'.

I'm not overly interested in discounted tickets to events but do like to follow a forum of like minded owners, which is where the TTOC falls down totally and the TTF provides a very good one.

I've always joined official owner clubs of my cars but I was never drawn to the TTOC for some reason.

As for the TTOC / TTF relationship, just draw a line and separate the two instead of the constant complaining. There's plenty of room for both.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Roller Skate

I've always found it odd that the TTOC needs to promote itself through the TTF but feels the need to segregate itself from the forum when it feels fit.

Remember this. "Don't forget to join the TTOC  ". It used to be everywhere, every new member post would find Wallsend or some other TTOC rep reminding everyone to join the TTOC. New members to the TTF were given in my view the false impression that they had to join the TTOC to use the forum. I know i'm not alone in that view either.

Over the years i've watched the TTOC argue its way through its AGM's, everybody wanting it their way, everyone wanting control. Let's be honest here, this is all about TTOC control and its perceived control it thinks it has over the TTF.

As for Nick(Nem), I take it you remember starting your own forum when Jae let this one slide? Shows how faithful you are to this forum. Please don't tell us you did it for the members, you did it for you. More control.

This brings me to Bart Simpsonhead's point. Why shouldn't he be allowed to do his thing without having to go through the TTOC degradation mill?


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## Nem

Oh look, someone else who can't grasp the simple points of this discussion. :roll:

We're not after control, we're after the forum owners sticking to the deal they made with the TTOC.

It's that simple.

Instead of the TTOC being able to organise and run events and being allowed to be an option for people wanting more than just a forum experience, we're quite rapidly being run out of ground by John-H. This is going directly against what the deal we made, but the forum owners don;t have it in them to actually tell us this, and they are simply allowing John to get away with this.

I've been dealing with the forum owners now for over 2 months trying to get answers and apparently a report has been now been complied by one of the forum community support staff which is currently being review by the company managers. This will decide whether the forum owners want to officially break this deal and the TTOC will move away from the TTF altogether, or if John-H will be removed from the forum admin team for letting his personal grievances with the TTOC cause disruption to the agreements we had in place.

I don't actually care which way it goes, would just rather it was sorted out once and for all and people see who/what is actually causing all the problems, because it seems everyone believe the TTOC is at the root of all the issues and those people are wrong.


----------



## Nem

Roller Skate said:


> As for Nick(Nem), I take it you remember starting your own forum when Jae let this one slide? Shows how faithful you are to this forum. Please don't tell us you did it for the members, you did it for you. More control.


Not quite sure the point you're making here. As you say the forum was being totally neglected so I started up a new one, which I then closed to become an admin on here and Chairman of the TTOC.



Roller Skate said:


> This brings me to Bart Simpsonhead's point. Why shouldn't he be allowed to do his thing without having to go through the TTOC degradation mill?


No, you've got that the wrong way round I'm afraid. The TTOC currently can't do anything without going through Simpsonhead's degradation mill.


----------



## Roller Skate

Nem said:


> "Not quite sure the point you're making here. As you say the forum was being totally neglected so I started up a new one, which I then closed to become an admin on here and Chairman of the TTOC."
> 
> *Jae was just worried that you were stealing his members Nick, to be honest, he had nothing to fear, people stick with what they know and what they knew was that the knowledge base was with this site.*
> 
> "No, you've got that the wrong way round I'm afraid. The TTOC currently can't do anything without going through Simpsonhead's degradation mill".
> 
> *Why can't he simply do what he wants to do? This isn't the TTOC, it's the TTF. Personally, if i'd paid the ridiculous amount of money to Jae for this forum i'd make no concession for the TTOC, i'd personally leave it by the roadside. It's caused more arguments on here than anything else since the sites inception.*


As for grasping the simple points of discussion, or more to the point, condescending one liners, i've always found you spurious Nick. What's the matter? The TTF taking away any control you thought you had? The TTF doesn't need the TTOC, I wish they'd hurry up and understand so you can stop leaving your stamp on this forum.


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## Nem

The new forum owners only bought the forum as the TTOC were involved with it, they appreciated the added 'value' that having an owners club attached to it bought. Which only adds to the mystery of why they are letting John eat away at this relationship and go against what was agreed in the first place.

*You still do not get the point.*

It's not control we thought we had or even requested, it was an agreement between the forum owners and the club.


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## Roller Skate

Nem said:


> The new forum owners only bought the forum as the TTOC were involved with it, they appreciated the added 'value' that having an owners club attached to it bought. Which only adds to the mystery of why they are letting John eat away at this relationship and go against what was agreed in the first place.
> 
> *You still do not get the point.*
> 
> It's not control we thought we had or even requested, it was an agreement between the forum owners and the club.


*You still don't get the point.*

The TTF doesn't need the TTOC. I can't remember the last time it added value to the forum.


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## Nem

It doesn't matter if you think it adds value or not, the point is the forum owners think it does.

Either way it seems there is simply no point going round in circles when after I make a post you simply ignore it and come to your own conclusions anyway.

You are either, a) genuinely not understanding the situation, or b) are understanding the situation but choosing to ignore the facts.

Whichever, there is nothing more I can say.


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## Roller Skate

Nem said:


> It doesn't matter if you think it adds value or not, the point is the forum owners think it does.


Maybe the problem is, they won't say they think it doesn't.

FYI, of course i'm going to come to my own conclusion, just remember, you've never let the facts get in the way of anything concerning your own agendas. Let's face it, the TTOC were appeased so that the new owners and Jae could have a smooth transition of a sale. That was the reality of what happened, whether you choose to think otherwise is up to you. The TTOC has been a thorn in the side of this forum ever since.

I can't think of anything better than TTF organised events, without having to join some antiquated and outdated Owners Club, which seems to do nothing more than try to insert it's non existent authority where it seems fit.

People come to this forum for advice or to enjoy the banter and although the demographic has changed over the years, the forums ethos has carried on, even though it's more of a businesslike now, the owners have done a great job in simply letting us all get on with it, without any real changes apart from the stark advertising, but we all understand that this forum has to make them revenue.

So, what I don't understand is why the TTOC feels the need to undermine anything that's done outside its self appointed remit.

Especially with Andrew obviously undermining threads with another profile. Bit "cloak and dagger" don't you think?

The TTOC needs to grow up. You also need to stop saying this isn't about control, because that's exactly what it's about.


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## Lollypop86

Roller Skate said:


> FYI, of course i'm going to come to my own conclusion, just remember, you've never let the facts get in the way of anything concerning your own agendas.* Let's face it, the TTOC were appeased so that the new owners and Jae could have a smooth transition of a sale*. That was the reality of what happened, whether you choose to think otherwise is up to you. The TTOC has been a thorn in the side of this forum ever since.
> 
> I can't think of anything better than TTF organised events, without having to join some antiquated and outdated Owners Club, which seems to do nothing more than try to* insert it's non existent authority where it seems fit*.
> 
> People come to this forum for advice or to enjoy the banter and although the demographic has changed over the years, the forums ethos has carried on, even though it's more of a businesslike now, the owners have done a great job in simply letting *us all get on with it*, without any real changes apart from the stark advertising, but we all understand that this forum has to make them revenue.
> 
> So, what I don't understand is why the TTOC feels the need to undermine anything that's done outside its self appointed remit.
> 
> Especially with Andrew obviously undermining threads with another profile. Bit "cloak and dagger" don't you think?
> 
> The TTOC needs to grow up. You also need to stop saying this isn't about control, because that's exactly what it's about.


Points highlighted. You've been here for all of 5 minutes, interesting how you would appear to think you know information, just another one sucked in, when you know all the facts then come back, till then, I suggest you pipe down.


----------



## Roller Skate

Lollypop86 said:


> Roller Skate said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI, of course i'm going to come to my own conclusion, just remember, you've never let the facts get in the way of anything concerning your own agendas.* Let's face it, the TTOC were appeased so that the new owners and Jae could have a smooth transition of a sale*. That was the reality of what happened, whether you choose to think otherwise is up to you. The TTOC has been a thorn in the side of this forum ever since.
> 
> I can't think of anything better than TTF organised events, without having to join some antiquated and outdated Owners Club, which seems to do nothing more than try to* insert it's non existent authority where it seems fit*.
> 
> People come to this forum for advice or to enjoy the banter and although the demographic has changed over the years, the forums ethos has carried on, even though it's more of a businesslike now, the owners have done a great job in simply letting *us all get on with it*, without any real changes apart from the stark advertising, but we all understand that this forum has to make them revenue.
> 
> So, what I don't understand is why the TTOC feels the need to undermine anything that's done outside its self appointed remit.
> 
> Especially with Andrew obviously undermining threads with another profile. Bit "cloak and dagger" don't you think?
> 
> The TTOC needs to grow up. You also need to stop saying this isn't about control, because that's exactly what it's about.
> 
> 
> 
> Points highlighted. You've been here for all of 5 minutes, interesting how you would appear to think you know information, just another one sucked in, when you know all the facts then come back, till then, I suggest you pipe down.
Click to expand...

Really? 5 minutes? I originally joined in 2003. Have back copies of Absolutte in my loft from the beginning ....onwards to 2009 i think. In good nick they are too.Remember Brooklands, Gaydon, Donington even Rockingnham? No, of course you don't.

How do you think I know all this stuff?

"I suggest you pipe down" Really? I'm seriously hoping marketing isn't your day job. But that's the TTOC all over.


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## Lollypop86

Roller Skate said:


> Really? 5 minutes? I originally joined in 2003. Have back copies of Absolutte in my loft from the beginning ....onwards to 2009 i think. In good nick they are too.Remember Brooklands, Gaydon, Donington even Rockingnham? No, of course you don't.
> 
> How do you think I know all this stuff?
> 
> "I suggest you pipe down" Really? I'm seriously hoping marketing isn't your day job. But that's the TTOC all over.


So why the new profile, got something to hide?  I have copies of all editions of AbsoluTTe.......whats your point?

Your making rather vague accusations, care to grow a back bone and go into detail?


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## Roller Skate

Yes. Mine were delivered on release. :lol:

Nothing vague about the points i've made.

And trust me, you lot don't want me going into detail .... maybe I know far more than you think I do.


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## Lollypop86

Dont worry sweetheart I know a lot more than you think too  Talking is a wonderful way of communication 

And if you cant read your last accusation as vague then you've got issues

J
xx


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## Roller Skate

Lollypop86 said:


> Dont worry sweetheart I know a lot more than you think too  Talking is a wonderful way of communication
> 
> And if you cant read your last accusation as vague then you've got issues
> 
> J
> xx


Give over. I'm still laughing at marketing. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Lollypop86

Do you actually know what I do?


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## Roller Skate

Lollypop86 said:


> Do you actually know what I do?


Tell people to "pipe down" when someone comments on a thread that is opposed to TTOC interference with the TTF?

I don't know, surprise me.


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## Lollypop86

I can tell you to pipe down again if you like? Your just another nomark jumping on the band wagon when you clearly dont know all the facts, your previous responses have clearly identified your lack of knowledge on the whole story as fact.

J
xx


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## Ikon66

I'm locking this as it's just turning into a bitching session. You really don't show yourself in a good light at times Jess


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## John-H

I wasn't going to comment on this thread but since I've been named I should reply.

The reason the TT Forum is supporting events independently of the TTOC is because the club wished to move away from a long standing agreement that events it organised on the TT forum were open to all.

This had been the situation since the start of the forum and club in 2000 and is also in a written agreement from 2010 when the club became more fully integrated with the forum, helping with administration and management in return for receiving a share of advertising revenue. The agreement stated that events should not exclude TT Forum members.

When Jae sold the forum in 2012 it was made clear that the club was not part of the sale.

On behalf of the club committee I contacted the new forum owners Vertical Scope and the committee agreed with them, that nothing would change regarding a working relationship. The new owners have been true to their word and were willing to continue with the existing administration, moderators and even the revenue share deal which remained unchanged and continued.

I later left the committee in 2013 to carry on the TTF administration role, following changes on the TTOC committee when the club decided it would no longer support TT Forum administration. The revenue share was also abandoned and the club moved to distance itself from the forum in what it called a "separation of powers".

In 2014 following concerns from members that they were being excluded from events they had previously attended *here*. I asked the club to clarify its position over events it was organising *here*.

Following this, a TTOC committee vote was held on 30th July 2014 deciding to restrict access to TTOC members only, on club stands at certain events (see club minutes).

This was their choice but the consequence has been the need for the TT Forum to provide independent support for forum members wishing to attend these events. Anyone can organise an event and it is better for the community for it to be done in the name of the TT Forum.

There followed an agreement between the club and forum on event promotion *here*.

If the club now wishes to be the sole official promoter of stands at large events again on the TT Forum and if members agree, it is welcome to do so, providing it again includes non club members on its stands. Until this happens the TT Forum will continue to support its members.


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## Lollypop86

s_robinson91 said:


> Lollypop86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> s_robinson91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks guys, not a member of the owners club yet. So I think I'll put her up on the forum stand.
> 
> 
> 
> According to your sig you are  maybe just need to renew
> 
> J
> xx
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yeah, I forgot I was a member with my mk1, just renewed so will park up on whichever stand has space for me.
Click to expand...

Plenty for you on the TTOC stand, will get the thread updated with your name 

J
xx


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## Bartsimpsonhead

s_robinson91 said:


> Lollypop86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> s_robinson91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks guys, not a member of the owners club yet. So I think I'll put her up on the forum stand.
> 
> 
> 
> According to your sig you are  maybe just need to renew
> 
> J
> xx
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yeah, I forgot I was a member with my mk1, just renewed so will park up on whichever stand has space for me.
Click to expand...

Well, if you decide to park with the TTF you're always more than welcome - I know I'd be livid if someone parking too close on a busy stand ding'd my door!


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## ReTTro fit

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> s_robinson91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lollypop86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> s_robinson91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks guys, not a member of the owners club yet. So I think I'll put her up on the forum stand.
> 
> 
> 
> According to your sig you are  maybe just need to renew
> 
> J
> xx
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yeah, I forgot I was a member with my mk1, just renewed so will park up on whichever stand has space for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, if you decide to park with the TTF you're always more than welcome - I know I'd be livid if someone parking too close on a busy stand ding'd my door!
Click to expand...

Lmfao ! 
Scraping the barrel now lol

On iPhone using Tapacrap


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## Nem

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> Well, if you decide to park with the TTF you're always more than welcome - I know I'd be livid if someone parking too close on a busy stand ding'd my door!


Thankfully knowing Calvin and the TTOC having supported and attended every AITP since it began we have all the space we need, so there is no worry about parking to close to other club members.


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## Bartsimpsonhead

No, not at all - just giving people the option of making their own choices.


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## Nem

I think scraping the barrel was a pretty good summing up.

"Park with the TTOC and risk getting your car damaged" was the message you were giving out.

Give it a rest.


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## Bartsimpsonhead

If you stop hijacking other people threads first - notice I'm not making random posts on the TTOC thread - or should I take a leaf out of the TTOC playbook?


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## Lollypop86

Simply directing members to the correct thread is not hijacking, just pointing them in the right direction to the club stand....for the avoidance of doubt

J
xx


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## Nem

Then just stop.

Stop slagging the TTOC off,

Stop dishing out negativity towards the TTOC,

Stop trying to put people off the TTOC,

Just stop.


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## Bartsimpsonhead

Lollypop86 said:


> Simply directing members to the correct thread is not hijacking, just pointing them in the right direction to the club stand....for the avoidance of doubt
> 
> J
> xx


One post is fair enough - I would probably have mentioned it myself. But multiple posts is un-necessary.


----------



## Bartsimpsonhead

Nem said:


> Then just stop.
> 
> Stop slagging the TTOC off,
> 
> Stop dishing out negativity towards the TTOC,
> 
> Stop trying to put people off the TTOC,
> 
> Just stop.


Quid pro quo Nick - Quid pro quo!


----------



## Lollypop86

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> Lollypop86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Simply directing members to the correct thread is not hijacking, just pointing them in the right direction to the club stand....for the avoidance of doubt
> 
> J
> xx
> 
> 
> 
> One post is fair enough - I would probably have mentioned it myself. But multiple posts is un-necessary.
Click to expand...

As I said simply directing club members to the correct thread 

J
xx


----------



## Bartsimpsonhead

Lollypop86 said:


> Bartsimpsonhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lollypop86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Simply directing members to the correct thread is not hijacking, just pointing them in the right direction to the club stand....for the avoidance of doubt
> 
> J
> xx
> 
> 
> 
> One post is fair enough - I would probably have mentioned it myself. But multiple posts is un-necessary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As I said simply directing club members to the correct thread
> 
> J
> xx
Click to expand...

That's assuming they wish to park there - some may, in which case they're posting here in error and a post to redirect them is fine (which I'd probably highlight anyway); some may not (given recent exchanges and pm's I've received) - in which case they may make an alternative choice. It's down to them&#8230;


----------



## Lollypop86

I will continue to redirect people, had 2 PM's today actually asking where the TTOC thread has been hidden  Just raising awareness or the TTOC event location and giving fellow members reminders to renew if their signature indicates that 

J
xx


----------



## Bartsimpsonhead

Fair enough - but please keep it on track. 
I'd rather you didn't spoil TTF threads and in return you probably don't want TTF members rubbishing yours.


----------



## Lollypop86

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> TTF members


You, you mean 

J
xx


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## Bartsimpsonhead

Me possibly? Roller Skate voiced some criticisms recently, there may be others&#8230;


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## Lollypop86

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> Me possibly? Roller Skate voiced some criticisms recently, there may be others&#8230;


In terms of "hijacking" event threads, it only ever seems to be you. But anywho, looking forward to seeing everyone at AiTP, the TTOC thread is here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=742521

and here

http://www.ttoc.co.uk/members/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1257

J
xx


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## Bartsimpsonhead

Well, if that isn't a thread hijack I don't know what is!! Still, proved my point beautifully :roll:


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## John-H

Enough! There is an agreement between the TTOC and TTF that the TTOC will keep promotion of its private 'members only' events in its exclusive section and not promote them on the main forum events section because they are not open to forum members to attend. The agreement was posted here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=742521

Hijacking TTF event threads with multiple messages and links about the TTOC members only stand constitutes promotion and goes against the agreement. A row has ensued which is a predictable result and does neither the TTF or the TTOC any good. The last thing members want to see are squabbles and arguments as it puts everybody off.

As far as I can see the member being advised was not a TTOC member when he first posted so it was quite understandable for him to post and ask and also to be invited to join the TTF stand. One suggestion that he had a choice if he renewed his TTOC membership may have been reasonable, as would a PM but unfortunately it's now got out of hand - again.

In order to avoid this sort of thing happening in future could members please respect the demarcation and the agreement.


----------

