# Ideal First Track Car? Elisr of Modded TT?



## elrao (Apr 19, 2005)

What would people buy with an £8k budget for a track car? It is to be used soley for track use, bought between 3 or 4 of us (hence the budget) for track days and the like.

My mate is saying Lotus Elise (seems everyone uses these), but I am wading in with a modded TT. 260+ bhp, coilies, defcons, arbs and uprated brakes. Strip a load of weight out of the interior etc.

What do people think, anything else to consider? Ideally something that won't depreciate too much either!


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

Elise is good, but expensive to repair. Perhaps a 1.9 205GTI or perhaps one with an Mi16 engine.


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## elrao (Apr 19, 2005)

Are Elises expensive? My mates are banging on about them as they think they are cheap to run / repair etc. Anyone know any prices for common parts to do a comparisson?


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

elrao said:


> Are Elises expensive? My mates are banging on about them as they think they are cheap to run / repair etc. Anyone know any prices for common parts to do a comparisson?


Okay, I was thinking in relation to the 205. I suppose it depends your definition of expensive is...On another note I personnally wouldn't car share...but that is just me.  Good luck in your quest.


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## garvin (May 7, 2002)

Search around and get a Caterham 7. Even with lowly power they make a great track day only car, easily modded and repaired.


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## malc8148 (Nov 6, 2008)

£3000........Pulsar GTI-R.......325bph 4wd..............NO CONTEST!
I did,nothing to touch it!
Malc


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## SimonQS (Jul 21, 2008)

LOTUS

Lots
Of
Trouble
Usually
Serious

:wink:


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## prt225TT (May 7, 2007)

Bike engined caterham type car... might aswell go balls to the walls with 16k rpm of R1 engine hurtling you around!


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## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

This is exactly my circumstance.
I have both, the TTS for "normal driving" and the Elise R for the track and whenever I feel like taking it out.
So my advise to you is to go for the Elise, yes they can be tempramental (spelling) but they are great fun and you can also mod it too if thats your bag. for me 190bhp in a go-gart is more than enough and to date I have had no problems, although mine is only 3 years old with less than 20k on the clock. Older models may give more trouble but if you get one with good service history then should be ok.
You should join a lotus forum and ask plenty of questions
here is a few

www.seloc.org
www.scottishelises.com
www.octane.ie (there is a lotus section on this site)


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## p1tse (Sep 20, 2004)

out of interest where will you be taking it and/or what will you be doing with it?

i would go for a lighter, simpler car i.e. not audi tt
the pug 205 are great and you'll find some track ready already, i.e. roll cage, harnesses, coilovers, brakes, wheels etc.


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## mobbster (Mar 5, 2005)

Hi
One thing Malc8148
A pulsar :roll: one of the most unrealible engines know to man [smiley=bigcry.gif] most of the gearbox and engine internals might aswell have been made from chocolate :lol: 
Go light say westfield with a 16v 2.0ltr vauxhall engine as out of the GTE.
Loads of cars but as mentioned 205's are good and a great platform to start with.
Cheers


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## Daveintheuk (Oct 18, 2008)

Vauxhall VXR220 turbo?

Quicker than an elise. (0-60)

Made by lotus but with cheaper vauxhall parts with a GM engine.

And of course theres always the turbo to play about with! More modable. 

Of course when your down the pub telling everyone about your track car 'I've got a vauxhall' is'nt gonna cut the mustard!

Great car for the track if you can look past the badge.


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## malc8148 (Nov 6, 2008)

mobbster said:


> Hi
> One thing Malc8148
> A pulsar :roll: one of the most unrealible engines know to man [smiley=bigcry.gif] most of the gearbox and engine internals might aswell have been made from chocolate :lol:
> Go light say westfield with a 16v 2.0ltr vauxhall engine as out of the GTE.
> ...


Hi,
I have to say that I speak as I find and Ive had a GTI-R for 3 yrs and tracked it all over the place and it only ever let me down once and that was when it blew a top hose!!!!
It would blow most cars away with its poke and 4wd.......I must say though that I had a caterham HPC with th cosworth engine and 0-60 in 4.9 seconds and that was better,but as you say ..no weight.
I thought we were taking about something cheap and quick,if so the GTI-R is the one ,Providing ,you get a good one that has been modded right .
Malc


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## elrao (Apr 19, 2005)

Cheers for all the comments guys. Will take a look about and see what it out there.


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## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

elrao said:


> What would people buy with an £8k budget for a track car? It is to be used soley for track use,


Does it have to be road legal?


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## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

Daveintheuk said:


> Vauxhall VXR220 turbo?
> 
> Quicker than an elise. (0-60)
> 
> ...


The vxr220 has an extra 30bhp over the elise R and only manages a 0-60 time of .7 sec quicker, overall the elise would get round the track quicker. Without sounding like a badge snob I would rather have the lotus.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Of the two you listed, I defo take a Lotus. Lighter weight means you need less power to enjoy yourself - and you'll learn a lot more about driving in the process.

Many people on here that have started off tracking their TT eventually got rid of it for something lighter and/or more driver focussed. I think the TT is a nice road car that's OK on the track. Others are nice track cars that are OK on the road.


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## elrao (Apr 19, 2005)

HighTT said:


> elrao said:
> 
> 
> > What would people buy with an £8k budget for a track car? It is to be used soley for track use,
> ...


Not necessarily ... but obviously we'd need to buy a trailer if it wasn't and make sure we had at least one car with a towing hook!


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## Daveintheuk (Oct 18, 2008)

sniper-sam said:


> The vxr220 has an extra 30bhp over the elise R and only manages a 0-60 time of .7 sec quicker, overall the elise would get round the track quicker. Without sounding like a badge snob I would rather have the lotus.


Agreed, I'd take the lotus to. But the vxr is still a worthy car.

Around a track there's nothing in it as demonstrated by Tiff:






But the lotus wins my vote for looks and kudus alone.

But surly the VX would be cheaper to repair and easier to Mod?


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

And our old friend Thorney has lots of nice things for the VX in his new business

www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk

He'd probably be able to help you find a nice one too


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## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

Just in terms of TT v Elise; a well sorted and highly developed race TT recently lapped Silverstone GP circuit in 2'12" as posted on this forum by the owner/supplier/tuner.

A Honda engined road going Elise on road legal tyres (I've been round Silverstone as a passenger in it) lapped the same circuit in 2'14".
There's a video of the Lotus lap with telemetry here:-


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## sniper-sam (Jan 23, 2007)

Daveintheuk said:


> sniper-sam said:
> 
> 
> > The vxr220 has an extra 30bhp over the elise R and only manages a 0-60 time of .7 sec quicker, overall the elise would get round the track quicker. Without sounding like a badge snob I would rather have the lotus.
> ...


I'm not so sure about it being cheaper to repair but dont quote me. without watching the video again I thought that the the R just pipped the 220 at the line during that "experiment" which I think is pretty awesome when you think the 220 is turbo engine and 30bhp more, but I guess turbo lag may come in to it?
Sorry to sidetrack this thread abit, its just i'm quite passionate about my little lottie :lol:


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

HighTT said:


> Just in terms of TT v Elise; a well sorted and highly developed race TT recently lapped Silverstone GP circuit in 2'12" as posted on this forum by the owner/supplier/tuner.
> 
> A Honda engined road going Elise on road legal tyres (I've been round Silverstone as a passenger in it) lapped the same circuit in 2'14".
> There's a video of the Lotus lap with telemetry here:-


This isn't meant to be mickey taking, but what was the point yoiu were trying to make?

That a TT CAN do it, but only if you spend mega bucks - whereas a Lotus will do it out of the box OR that the TT is the better option because in this instance it was quicker?

I'm thinking hte first one, but wasn't sure if that's what you meant.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Caterham would be my choice. Relatively easy to service maintain compared to Elise (which is still a sweet handling and braking car - but any chassi work will be costly given it's construction).

VXR - longer wheelbase and easier to drive than Elise (OK easier to recover at the limit). I drove non turbo one before several time at JPs, and was quicker than I was in the Elise. But not Exige.

Track driving is more about handling and brakes than power, hence lightweight is always king. As is RWD if you really want to finesse your car handling skills and extract max satisfaction through carrying max speed through the corners, rather than chip-tune hurtling down the straights. Light weight is also far easier on brakes and tyres consumables costs.

TT - too much work needed to make it handle and brake under track conditions.

Pumped up Pulsar? Ha ha - i dont care how many bhp. Any of the track specials would skin it for thrills, pace and running costs.


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## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

Kell said:


> HighTT said:
> 
> 
> > Just in terms of TT v Elise; a well sorted and highly developed race TT recently lapped Silverstone GP circuit in 2'12" as posted on this forum by the owner/supplier/tuner.
> ...


The OP was suggesting a TT, his mate was suggesting an Elise :-

_"My mate is saying Lotus Elise (seems everyone uses these), but I am wading in with a modded TT. 260+ bhp, coilies, defcons, arbs and uprated brakes. Strip a load of weight out of the interior etc."_

and bearing in mind that there is a *modest budget*, I was making the point that *£ for £* the Elise would be quicker around the track and by inferrence more fun than a TT.


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## drjam (Apr 7, 2006)

Of the two you mention I'd definitely go for the Elise over the TT as a track car.

If you prang it, the Elise can be expensive because the front and rear fibreglass panels are all-in-one and are costly. But then if you prang a TT at high speed I doubt that'd be a cheap repair either. Plus you'd find the Elise cheaper on tyre, brake and other wear because it's so much lighter (and an £8K budget will be buying you one of the older, series 1 models which are the lightest, around £760kg or so). And it's simpler, so no electronic gadgetry to go wrong. Engine on the older ones is rover k-series, so again pretty cheap and simple. And at the age of car you'd be buying, most of the usual niggles will probably have been sorted out long ago (and chances are you'd find better/upgraded parts would be fitted by now). You'll need to spend some money on driver training to get the most out of it, but then that would add to the enjoyment anyway.

Having said all that, if it is _literally _for track-only, if it was me I'd probably be looking at this as a chance to drive something even more hardcore, so a Caterham or the like as someone's already suggested.


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## mobbster (Mar 5, 2005)

Hi
Before you look at my sig and say im bias :roll: 
If you look around you could get an Evo 7/8 with 30k on the clock full service history for around 8k
Most would be pushing 300 plus horse's and with the rear seats stripped out would be around 1200kgs.
That would give you a car that hits the 60 in just over 4 secs and can be thrown in to a bend 20/30mph faster than almost any car on the planet and unless your a real numb nuts you can make it out the other end but you would be a little side ways on the exit :wink: 
Would make a good track day or sprint car.
Good strong std engine,gear box but would just need to uprate brake pads.
Only another thought bud,
Cheers


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## elrao (Apr 19, 2005)

Cheers guys. I would not have bought another TT and modded it, it was only as T-T was selling his (with all the kit for c.£10k) that I even considered it. Have spent far too much on my own TT!

There is a repaired (cat-C) Elise on PH for £5k, and some 'normal' ones for around the £6,500 - £7k mark. Caterhams seem to start from about £1k higher than the Elise.

Will mention the Evo too, although I think my mates will be put off by the same reasons they didn't want a TT.


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## mobbster (Mar 5, 2005)

elrao
Only a small point :wink: 
My mate went on a track day about 2 months ago, he has some quick motor bikes like MV f4 so he is not to excited by going in cars as in his words they are all "to slow".
He went in the following DB9,360 Challenge,Caterham,Lambo Gallado,Tvr Tuscan & Mitsi Evo 340 
Through out the day talking to different people they kept asking have you been in the Evo yet "no thats my last drive of the day he would reply thinking they were on "drugs"  
I will leave it to you to decide which he was blown away with :wink: 130k 360 Vs 30k jap crap :roll: 
I will be honest and say i went on one of these days and went to the track day in a M3 and was not impressed with the lambo's but a nice looking chick in big furry boots took me out in a 300 horse scoobie STI and i was gob smacked  
Cheers


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## Rhod_TT (May 7, 2002)

A 205 would do nicely:


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## sir_dave (Mar 25, 2008)

I've done a few laps of the 'ring :wink: and a couple of tracks days .... so heres my opinions on an £8k track only car.

RWD
Elise - yes, great car straight out the box, will be reliable if looked after, when it blows up put a CTR engine in it.
Caterham/Westfield - designed as a track car, no further info needed really
VX220 - heavier engine has a detrimental affect on the handling compared to an Elise. £8k wont buy you a turbo.
968 - may be cheap/grubby at this price, but wonderful balance. 
E36 M3 - used as ring cars very often, theres a reason for this, wonderful engine, uprated suspenion/brakes and they fly

FWD
205 (inc. Mi16) - considerably cheaper (ie £2k), will break, but immense fun & very capable for 'beginners'
172/182 Cup/Trophy, etc - cheaper, immense fun, easy to drive fast & very capable for 'beginners'
Mk2 Golf Gti - as above but with reliability as well

4WD
Evo - awesome pace, tuneability, very easy to drive fast, perhaps not enough of a challenge?
Scooby - as above, but say hello to understeer

VXRs are not in the budget, pulsar's arent want i call a nicer handler & suffer from weak transmissions, a TT, whilst a lovely road car is too heavy and too lifeless to be a track only car. If you want some other suggestions register on http://www.northloop.co.uk and read about some of the projects on there


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

Just a note on the Scoob you can dial the understeer out with revised geometry settings, i have with mine


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## SimonQS (Jul 21, 2008)

sir_dave said:


> E36 M3 - used as ring cars very often, theres a reason for this, wonderful engine, uprated suspenion/brakes and they fly


Nurberg ring school use Alfa 75s - You would pick up an excellent one of these for a couple of grand easy.


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