# Help! Noise after cam belt installed (with video)



## jhyde692 (Jun 19, 2018)

Having issues with my 2001 TT 1.8 Quattro 6 speed with 65k miles. Does anyone know what the rattle coming from the timing belt area could be in this video? It started after I changed the timing belt, water pump, idler pulley and hydraulic tensioner. All OEM parts / Hepu water pump /Conti belt. I replaced the tensioner pulley and hydraulic tensioner a second time, and I still get the noise. In the video, the engine is running WITHOUT the accessory belt attached, so it can't be a bad accessory tensioner, alternator, etc. it's also not the timing belt covers. Otherwise engine runs perfectly and timing marks are aligned.

The only thing I can think to do is to replace the water pump again. HELP!!!!


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

Have to say I can't quite hear anything highly unusual

I can hear the tappety injectors but that's normal

Could be my setup and headphones not picking it up in your video


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## spuddy333 (Nov 17, 2015)

hi,your noise seems similar to mine, if you raise rpm slightly does it go as mine did ,if so have you cleaned oil pick up pipe/sump ?
basically mine was blocked,,once all ultrasonically cleaned all ran nice and quiet,most people just change pick up pipe as cheap part,, pics attached


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## Nik74 (May 26, 2018)

Hi,
I had the same noise at idle when my timing belt was changed a couple of weeks ago.
My mechanic pointed it out to me when he brought my car home.
Took it back to his workshop & fitted a complete new kit and now all good.
Never got to the bottom of what was causing it, he refitted the timing belt 3 times & in the end replaced the lot.
Put it down to a bad tensioner or pump.
I'll be getting my oil pick up replaced as safety measure now after reading this.


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## jhyde692 (Jun 19, 2018)

Thanks for the help everyone. I live in the USA and couldn't get any respoense on the Audi forums based here. Really appreciate it!

In response to the post about replacing the entire kit - I was having the same thought. I'm planning to buy a gates kit, including a new belt, pump, tensioners, etc and I'm really hopeful it takes care of the noise. The fact that it worked for you makes me feel a lot better about it. I'll report back once I redo the job (I'm dreading having to remove that motor mount for the third time!)

As for the pickup screen, thanks for the pictures. I just bought the car, so I don't know the history. The engine has a new sump, but I think it was replaced by the last owner to repair an oil leak, not because of any sludge issues. But, you would hope they would have at least checked the oil pickup screen while they had it off!


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## spuddy333 (Nov 17, 2015)

does the noise fade as you increase rpm slighty,say from tickover to about 1100rpm? is so more likely oil pressure due to blocked strainer, but like i said that was my issue,but good luck


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## TT Grant (Apr 24, 2018)

I had the same issue....same noises...

1-The rattle noise is the injectors tapping away.

2-The whirring noise with a low pitched whine, that also has a little knock sound in it too - this is the belt tensioner doing it's thing & is also perfectly normal.
I don't think you have an issue, it's just the noise it makes.
It has probably become noticeable because you are listening for noises, AND the new belt & tensioner is more taught & will echo noises more.

Mondeo diesels were prone to this noise too - & it was a lot louder.

I think all is fine.

If you notice a rumbling noise some time in future, this will be water pump bearings, but you will get plenty of warning as it get louder, & can get it done at your leisure.
For now, you do not have water pump issues I'm sure.

Grant B


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## jhyde692 (Jun 19, 2018)

TT Grant said:


> I had the same issue....same noises...
> 
> 1-The rattle noise is the injectors tapping away.
> 
> ...


Thanks Grant. I would normally agree, but the whirring sounds coming from the cam belt area is loud and very noticeable (louder than it sounds in the video). It was also not there with the old belt/parts. It is so loud that my wife asked me about it, and she is oblivious to unusual sounds. I'm still inclined to replace all the parts with a different brand, even though it will end up costing me double. I may give it some more time to see if it gets better - maybe the belt needs to loosen up a bit. Appreciate the advice.


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## jhyde692 (Jun 19, 2018)

spuddy333 said:


> does the noise fade as you increase rpm slighty,say from tickover to about 1100rpm? is so more likely oil pressure due to blocked strainer, but like i said that was my issue,but good luck


Thanks... I'll check that out. Pretty sure it goes away with revs.


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## spuddy333 (Nov 17, 2015)

let me know your findings as that was my issue


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## drone (Sep 24, 2014)

Tensioning pulley has a washer between it and the engine block as a distance piece, looks like it's been installed there as a mechanics afterthought. It hasn't and it's meant to be there, if it isn't there then it's possible the pulley will be trying to pull the belt toward the engine block and it may be possible that the belt is overlapping the inner edge on all the other pulleys causing some resonance. I can't say it will, just it may be possible.
Just a thought.
If not, the only noises that I've ever managed to generate were by refitting the two lower cambelt guards incorrectly; they must be installed like tiles on a roof so that any fluid poured on them runs down the outside.
Just as a precaution, it may be worth checking the camshaft positioning sensor fastening bolts are secure.
Finally you mention that the auxiliary drive belt isn't fitted, was the ribbed belt pulley/vibration damper installed or not?
If not try it with the damper on.


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## jhyde692 (Jun 19, 2018)

drone said:


> Tensioning pulley has a washer between it and the engine block as a distance piece, looks like it's been installed there as a mechanics afterthought. It hasn't and it's meant to be there, if it isn't there then it's possible the pulley will be trying to pull the belt toward the engine block and it may be possible that the belt is overlapping the inner edge on all the other pulleys causing some resonance. I can't say it will, just it may be possible.
> Just a thought.
> If not, the only noises that I've ever managed to generate were by refitting the two lower cambelt guards incorrectly; they must be installed like tiles on a roof so that any fluid poured on them runs down the outside.
> Just as a precaution, it may be worth checking the camshaft positioning sensor fastening bolts are secure.
> ...


Thanks for the post.

Yes, the washer is there. I remember explicitly checking both times I installed the pulley - in fact, I spent an hour looking for it after dropping it!

As for the cam belt covers, I am also almost certain that they are installed correctly, although I'm not 100% sure. I've done a few of these timing belt jobs on similar Audi/VW engines (A4, Passat, etc.), and I admit the covers have caused issues for me in the past. Your note got me thinking - Before I tear this apart for the third time, I think I will remove the lower covers completely and see if the noise is still there. The noise is loudest when the engine is hot, so I will need to drive it a bit (I'm not crazy about driving the car without the covers in place, but I'm sure it will be OK for a short trip).

I will definitely check the cam positioning sensor bolts.

Yes, the accessory belt was not installed. When you say the ribbed belt pulley/vibration damper, is that the same as the harmonic balancer crank pulley bolted on the crankshaft with four bolts? Looks like this (see picture)? It was attached in the video. Would a crack in the pulley cause a noise?

I'm digging into this over the weekend. I'll let you guys know what happens. I really appreciate all the support and advice!


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## jhyde692 (Jun 19, 2018)

I found another guy who had the exact same issue on the same motor (1.8T) after replacing his timing belt. His video is linked below (again, not my car, but it shows the exact same issue). Check out the comments with the video. He replaced the tensioner, pulley, and water pump but the noise persisted. Finally he replaced the belt and the noise went away. My hunch is my belt is too tight, causing a bearing somewhere in the timing system to make noise. The guy in the video replaced a Gates belt with a Conti belt to fix his issue. I am going to try replacing my Conti belt with a Gates belt and see what happens. (After checking the covers, as pointed out in an earlier post).

Thoughts?

VIDEO OF CAR WITH SIMILAR ISSUE


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## spuddy333 (Nov 17, 2015)

hi again the noise is as you describe worse once engine is warmed,, sadly same symptons as i had,,, 
would realy suggest you drop the sump and look at oil feed and state of sump,, my tt only had 88k on it with loads of history,,
i know its your choice but its a cheap easy check ,and either rectify or look further into it if your pick up is clean as per my pics above


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## jhyde692 (Jun 19, 2018)

spuddy333 said:


> hi again the noise is as you describe worse once engine is warmed,, sadly same symptons as i had,,,
> would realy suggest you drop the sump and look at oil feed and state of sump,, my tt only had 88k on it with loads of history,,
> i know its your choice but its a cheap easy check ,and either rectify or look further into it if your pick up is clean as per my pics above


Definitely on my list. I even ordered a new pickup tube today. I've got a few more jobs to do on it before the car is up and running (wheel bearings, tie rod ends, and axles to name a few). I'm planning to drop the sump as well. Even if it has nothing to do with the noise, I agree it's important to check.


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## spuddy333 (Nov 17, 2015)

let me know your findings,goodluck


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

jhyde692 said:


> I found another guy who had the exact same issue on the same motor (1.8T) after replacing his timing belt. His video is linked below (again, not my car, but it shows the exact same issue). Check out the comments with the video. He replaced the tensioner, pulley, and water pump but the noise persisted. Finally he replaced the belt and the noise went away. My hunch is my belt is too tight, causing a bearing somewhere in the timing system to make noise. The guy in the video replaced a Gates belt with a Conti belt to fix his issue. I am going to try replacing my Conti belt with a Gates belt and see what happens. (After checking the covers, as pointed out in an earlier post).
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> VIDEO OF CAR WITH SIMILAR ISSUE


if you think the belt is too tight wind back in the damper and release the grenade pin again?


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## jhyde692 (Jun 19, 2018)

StuartDB said:


> jhyde692 said:
> 
> 
> > if you think the belt is too tight wind back in the damper and release the grenade pin again?


I actually tried that already, but I still get the noise. I don't think that it rules out the belt being too tight, though, considering the noise doesn't start until the engine has been running a while. By the time it starts making noise, the damper will have already re-tensioned the belt. But, I guess I could try winding it back at the point it starts making the noise (and try not to burn myself). I'll give that a try before swapping the Conti belt I have fitted for a Gates (OEM on this car). Fingers crossed!


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## drone (Sep 24, 2014)

Your first post didn't mention that the sound didn't appear until the engine had warmed up, it tends to focus my mind on the water pump or rather on the thermostat. If you have extremely good hearing (I don't) it may be the noise the water makes as it starts passing through the stat as it begins to open (or close), especially if there is still some air in the system. When I changed the stat on my coupe I drilled a small hole in the thermostat flange (2mm or so I don't remember now though it may have been 1.5mm) the hole is positioned at the top of the corresponding hole in the block ensuring quick and complete evacuation of any air in the system. 
BTW, that picture is of the pulley I referred to. If it's cracked god knows if it'll make a noise.
What I'd do if I were you is rather than driving the car with the guards off, get a very long piece of metal or carbon rod , at least 18" to 2 feet, Screwdriver with a plastic handle is what I use, then use it as a makeshift stethoscope to pinpoint the noise more accurately. Place the point of the driver against the potential noise source and the other end in your ear canal, the noises may scare the sh1t out of you but is a damn sight more accurate than the mk1 human ear. If you have the car securely up on ramps or stands then you can look (or hear) from both under the engine as well as above. This little tool is also good for detecting sounds in pumps, alternators, fans, wheel bearings, gearbox bearings etc etc
Incidentally, no bad intended to your wife, but they tend to be hypercritical and sometimes misleading as witnesses.


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## jhyde692 (Jun 19, 2018)

Thanks Drone. Appreciate the thoughtful post. I've used a mechanic's stethoscope to try pinning down the source of the noise, but it just seems to be coming from "everywhere" in the timing area (its slightly louder on the top end than underneath). I haven't had much luck getting the probe on the water pump with that damn engine mount in the way. I'm also nervous about sticking a metal probe into those spinning parts, if you know what I mean. But given your suspicions about the water pump, I'll try again. IMO it's got to be either the water pump or the belt - these are the only two components I haven't changed for a second time.

Also, if you suspect trapped air, do you know the proper bleeding procedure for the cooling system on this car? On my Passat V6 there is a small hole in one of the heater core pipes, and my A4 2.0 FSI there's a bleeder screw on A coolant pipe that runs across the top of the engine. Does this engine have one?


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, I can't see how trapped air could cause the noise.
No special procedure to vent air from cooling system, fill slowly & squeeze any hoses you can get to help remove any air.
Run up to temperature, leave to cool, remove reservoir cap & top up, run engine again for few minutes in case any air still there. Repeat if you think necessary, replace reservoir cap, check level again after a run.
Hoggy.


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## spuddy333 (Nov 17, 2015)

hmmm,have you not dropped the sump yet lol :roll:


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## jhyde692 (Jun 19, 2018)

Quick update - I pulled everything apart again and pulled off the old (new) Conti belt and replaced it with a Gates OEM belt (Made in UK!). When lining up the two belts to transfer the timing marks, I noticed that the Gates belt is a fraction of a mm thinner than the Conti belt, if that means anything. I also checked the water pump, and it seems fine - it turned smoothly with no noise when I spun it by hand (it's a Hepu pump, which is made in Germany and supposed to be good quality). The tensioner pulley and hydraulic tensioner also seem fine.

BUT when I went to torque down the engine mount that has to come off to get to the belt, I stripped one of the bolts going into the bracket that bolts on to the block. It's an aluminum part that calls for a high torque value using new stretch bolts. 
And, sure enough, on that final 1/4 "stretch" turn, it just spun. I just ordered a new bracket and bolts ($150 / £113). If that weren't enough, I have to pull the belt and tensioner off AGAIN to get it out of the car. UGHHHH!

Spuddy333 - I promise... I will definitely be dropping the sump - you've convinced me!  
But, I'm almost 100% certain the noise is coming from the timing belt area. You can hear it get louder when you pull back the top cover. Also, the noise didn't start until I replaced the belt.


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## spuddy333 (Nov 17, 2015)

mi
lol ,no worries but mine didnt start untill i had the car serviced lol,, and your noise is exact same as mine, i was told once engine its warm and car idles you hear it ,but as i said if you increase revs slightly it goes as oil pressure builts and takes up slack on timing chain tensioner,you loose oil pressure on idle due to lack of flow due to blocked strainer
,,im just curious no pressure lol
as its an easy check and wouldnt want you chasing something that isnt the fault ,, but im on a learning curve too,ive only had my tt since xmas ,and its a love hate thing lol


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

I always use engine flush on 4000 mile oil changes to try and keep the crud from the oil pickup, but as this sump on my TT has been re-threaded I may get a new pickup, pump, chain and sump for next oil change.


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## jhyde692 (Jun 19, 2018)

spuddy333 said:


> mi
> lol ,no worries but mine didnt start untill i had the car serviced lol,, and your noise is exact same as mine, i was told once engine its warm and car idles you hear it ,but as i said if you increase revs slightly it goes as oil pressure builts and takes up slack on timing chain tensioner,you loose oil pressure on idle due to lack of flow due to blocked strainer
> ,,im just curious no pressure lol
> as its an easy check and wouldnt want you chasing something that isnt the fault ,, but im on a learning curve too,ive only had my tt since xmas ,and its a love hate thing lol


No worries! I just bought this car, and I've had a concern about sludging all along, despite the low miles (about 65K miles, which is really low for a 2001). It looks like the car's been serviced fairly regularly based on the CarFax report, but not as often as I would have done it, and it's pretty clear they used conventional oil. As soon as I got the car home, I ran a liquiMoly flush through it and then changed the oil with a high quality synthetic 5W-40. There was a bit of crud at the bottom of the drain pan. That tells me there may be more crud in the sump, so even if it has nothing to do with the noise (which I concede may be possible), I plan to check the pickup screen very soon.


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## jhyde692 (Jun 19, 2018)

StuartDB said:


> I always use engine flush on 4000 mile oil changes to try and keep the crud from the oil pickup, but as this sump on my TT has been re-threaded I may get a new pickup, pump, chain and sump for next oil change.


Good thing dropping the sump on these cars is pretty easy. My friend had a car with the same engine in a different car (Passat or A4, I can't remember), and he had to work around a sway bar and frame cross member.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

yeah I had a quick look and even though the lower engine cover is missing the sump bolts look clean and tidy, a new sump is about £40 so maybe for about £100 peace of mind with new oil circulation components.


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## jhyde692 (Jun 19, 2018)

Quick update - the gates belt did the trick. After replacing the slightly thicker Conti belt with an OEM Gates belt, the noise is gone. Hooray! Now on to the wheel bearings...
Thanks for all the support and help everyone!


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## DeepGoat90 (Jun 23, 2018)

Glad to see this resolved! In your opinion do you believe the noise is causing any harm other than being annoying? If the belt is too tight I'd imagine premature wear on some components would be suspected but maybe the noise would resolve itself after a few k miles. Maybe time will tell for me. It's not obnoxiously loud but is there everyday.


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## jhyde692 (Jun 19, 2018)

DeepGoat90 said:


> Glad to see this resolved! In your opinion do you believe the noise is causing any harm other than being annoying? If the belt is too tight I'd imagine premature wear on some components would be suspected but maybe the noise would resolve itself after a few k miles. Maybe time will tell for me. It's not obnoxiously loud but is there everyday.


Thanks. I'd say it was definitely cause for concern. Whenever you have a noise like that, especially from a vital system, I don't believe it can be ignored. The video didn't do the noise justice - it was really loud, especially when it the car was parked in my garage. But, your situation may be different. If it comes and goes, or if it seems to be getting better over time, then you may be ok.


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## stchris356 (Mar 23, 2021)

I know it's an old post but I'm getting exactly the same noise since replacing my timing belt with a full Gates kit, including the water pump, tensioner and pulley.
It definitely wasn't there before changing the belt, engine runs sweet, It's just the noise, I was thinking vibration damper until a stumbled upon this post whilst searching for clues?

I've had the covers off again and all looks well, the plunger is extended by about 6mm.
The one thing I did notice, as I've fitted many timing belts is it was incredibly tight to get on and I was concerned by how tight the belt was, but since the engine has run there now appears to be some slack as the tensioner shaft has now extended.

Ant thought would be greatly received?????


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## Charmadize (Jul 14, 2019)

I sounds a bit like a loose cam shaft, perhaps a worn bearing?
When changing the belt, how did you fix and hold the camshaft sprockets?


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## jhyde692 (Jun 19, 2018)

@stchris356 - I was the OP of this thread ... I feel you pain! The only suggestion I have is to make sure the Gates belt you are using is stamped with "Made in Great Britain". I believe Gates also produces this belt in Mexico. Otherwise, I would just bite the bullet and go with an OEM belt. In my case, the ContiTech belt I originally used was just slightly too thick, making everything too tight, leading to the noise. Are the pulleys/rollers/tensioner all INA? I suppose it is possible one might be bad out of the box (water pump too). Good luck!


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## stchris356 (Mar 23, 2021)

Charmadize said:


> I sounds a bit like a loose cam shaft, perhaps a worn bearing?
> When changing the belt, how did you fix and hold the camshaft sprockets?


Thanks for the reply, once timed using the crankshaft both I think I might have moved the cam pulley once by a fraction, pretty sure that wouldn't have caused any problems.


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## stchris356 (Mar 23, 2021)

jhyde692 said:


> @stchris356 - I was the OP of this thread ... I feel you pain! The only suggestion I have is to make sure the Gates belt you are using is stamped with "Made in Great Britain". I believe Gates also produces this belt in Mexico. Otherwise, I would just bite the bullet and go with an OEM belt. In my case, the ContiTech belt I originally used was just slightly too thick, making everything too tight, leading to the noise. Are the pulleys/rollers/tensioner all INA? I suppose it is possible one might be bad out of the box (water pump too). Good luck!


Thank you for the reply, I've checked the readings off the belt to confirm it's the correct one and all appears to match up, but it was incredibly tight to fit, I think the next step is to purchase a genuine Audi part, although I'm not sure who makes it??

Fingers crossed!


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## macadamy (Mar 3, 2017)

stchris356 said:


> I know it's an old post but I'm getting exactly the same noise since replacing my timing belt with a full Gates kit, including the water pump, tensioner and pulley.
> It definitely wasn't there before changing the belt, engine runs sweet, It's just the noise, I was thinking vibration damper until a stumbled upon this post whilst searching for clues?
> 
> I've had the covers off again and all looks well, the plunger is extended by about 6mm.
> ...


 When I did mine, I got the wrong kit. The only difference is as per the attached. My belt slapped around as it was loose.

Matt


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## jhyde692 (Jun 19, 2018)

stchris356 said:


> jhyde692 said:
> 
> 
> > @stchris356 - I was the OP of this thread ... I feel you pain! The only suggestion I have is to make sure the Gates belt you are using is stamped with "Made in Great Britain". I believe Gates also produces this belt in Mexico. Otherwise, I would just bite the bullet and go with an OEM belt. In my case, the ContiTech belt I originally used was just slightly too thick, making everything too tight, leading to the noise. Are the pulleys/rollers/tensioner all INA? I suppose it is possible one might be bad out of the box (water pump too). Good luck!
> ...


My memory is a little fuzzy, but when I researched who manufactures the OEM belt I landed on Gates. That said, just because you have a Gates belt doesn't mean it's the exact same as the OEM version. I've learned that lesson too many times! Hope you get it sorted!


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## silverbug (Jan 1, 2020)

I did the cam belt just over a year ago now , just after buying my TT.
I used a Gates kit too , and have had no problems, but did chicken-out somewhat and use a Genuine water pump rather than the Gates item in the kit.
When I was researching which brand to buy, many of the Genuine VAG kits available on eBay UK appeared to contain cam belts marked Gates , so I was reassured that a Gates kit should be OK.
The belts are very tight to fit on these models and the fitting guide that I followed (from the Audiworld website and also in the Knowledge Base on here) makes this quite clear.
It took me several attempts to get the belt onto the lower crank sprocket.


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## jhyde692 (Jun 19, 2018)

stchris356 said:


> jhyde692 said:
> 
> 
> > @stchris356 - I was the OP of this thread ... I feel you pain! The only suggestion I have is to make sure the Gates belt you are using is stamped with "Made in Great Britain". I believe Gates also produces this belt in Mexico. Otherwise, I would just bite the bullet and go with an OEM belt. In my case, the ContiTech belt I originally used was just slightly too thick, making everything too tight, leading to the noise. Are the pulleys/rollers/tensioner all INA? I suppose it is possible one might be bad out of the box (water pump too). Good luck!
> ...


I found the factory repair manual chapter on the engine, which includes the "official" process for a timing belt job. (The Audi factory manual - Not the Bently version). I don't think I am allowed to post it here, but if you want to see it, just send me a PM.


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