# Nicked for my number plate!



## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

Travelling up the M3 this afternoon, to pick my son up from school, I was pulled over and given a FPN due to my number plate being 'illegal'.

Out came the plastic ruler and he proceeded to measure the numbers, letters and spacing.

Now all this is really getting to me. We have people getting shot on our streets and numerous other crimes on the increase and yet the Police would rather spend the resources targeting my poxy number plate. It's not in italics and is easily read by speed camera, (as proven a couple of months ago!!), but to them, it's worth 15 minutes of their time!

I questioned the officer on whether he had anything better to do with his time, when people are getting killed on our streets, and his reply was an absolute disgrace, "Well, I'm not going out onto the streets to get shot".

I got a 30 quid fine, (no points for this), and he said that I could either replace with correct plates or face the possibility of getting pulled again.

Ablazened across the bonnet of his car were the words, 'Working for a safer community'. I guess the community will sleep easy tonight knowing that justice has been served on my number plate!!


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## kingcutter (Aug 1, 2003)

i am waiting for a lady officer to pull me


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## vagman (Sep 6, 2002)

> i am waiting for a lady officer to pull me


Preferably, quite a few times in rapid succession.  

With regards to the Police, they really should examine what their priorities are and what they should be. It's little wonder violent crime is escalating, when half the plods are employed in anti-motorist tactics.  [smiley=stop.gif] [smiley=stop.gif]


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## Wolfsburger (Oct 21, 2002)

............Or you could just change your plate and stop dripping!

Personally, I think plates that are altered in an attempt to be different are very naff.

To be honest, your tactic of asking the copper if he had anything else better to do was stupid, he`s a traffic copper so traffic is his job! There are other people to try to catch killers on the street.

Just change it and stop moaning.


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## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

Out of interest, in what way was your plate illegal??


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

OK Devil's Advocate hat on here:

fiddling around with the spaces on number plates is illegal. (also a little sad but however..... )

Don't you think that the police know that you know the spacing was illegal? They do and it probably irritates them and may be seen as taking the piss. I am sure they have other things to do (after all they get Â£60 for speeder ) but you are sticking 2 fingers up at the law by knowingly having illegal spacing.

That is the law and you were breaking it. You knew this when you had the plate made. Pay the price. Sorry. :'(

If you don't like it, don't do it, or lobby to get the law changed but don't blame the police for being petty. They only enforce the law. Blame Parliament.

On a more general note, I'm not sure of the reasoning behind the law of the letter(!) but I presume it has something to with serious crime and a little old lady being able to recall a number plate as key to solving a serious crime.....spaces and screws could confuse.

Oh, and finally, not aimed at you auditt260bhp, I wonder how many of the self righteous people on the "Dealer Drove My Car at 100mph" Thread, who were up in arms about a dealer driving their car at illegal speeds, would expect a dealer to road test a car with illegally spaced plate?


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## jhaig (Sep 8, 2003)

Sorry I am afraid I am with Wolfsburger and garyc here!!

Most certainly not a personal swipe here but you where pulled on the M3m, which does suggest he might be a traffic cop!! Numberpates, cars, M3 hmmmmm this is all sounding quite like a traffic offence 

Also you could ask him why he wasn't out catching people shooting each other - however as he was responsible for patroling the M3!!!!!!!!!! and not inner Liverpool I think he was fairly justified in pulling you over


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## sno (Jul 2, 2003)

Sorry have to disagree with a ouple of you especially garyc.

Spacing and screws confuse !!! isn't easier to remember a 'word' or a 'name' rather than 'blah, blah, number, number, blah, blah, blah.... I bloody well think so and so would any old dear at 70 with bad eyesight..

As far as the law is concerened, yes it was broken, yes it is an offence and yes it is petty... the UK police force and GATSO implementation companies like to shove in our faces haw well technicaly advanced they are... you think? well there is software been available for eh.... years, that can quite easily read and identify thousands of different fonts, spacing not an issue... so with all the millions of pounds of 'our' money being spent on these systems you would think it would be more advanced than they say it is.

I prefer to see my money (whish is being spent on the Traffic Dept of our Police forces) going to better use, like reducing drink driving, people with no insurance, MOT or liciense. Then I would say that they are doing a fine job of cleaning up our roads...

Number plate letters and spacing offences.... GET A GRIP

Mark... (oops Chris)


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> Sorry have to disagree with a ouple of you especially garyc.
> 
> Spacing and screws confuse !!! isn't easier to remember a 'word' or a 'name' rather than 'blah, blah, number, number, blah, blah, blah.... I bloody well think so and so would any old dear at 70 with bad eyesight..
> 
> ...


Old lady - "Now was the muggers' car 44 or AA, was it an S or a 5, ws it a G or a twat with a black screw and a C". Get the point?

It was speculation on my part as to the reason for illegality, apart from persecuting a few individuals who flout the law. Seemed logical and I am sure that consitency and uniformity of letters across the plate is key in the reasoning behind law. Maybe you know better.....share it with us.

Number plate fonts and spacing GET A LIFE SADDOS


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## sno (Jul 2, 2003)

ooooooooooooh... touched a nerve did I gaz...?

Anyway, I do see your point but lets be honest, I would rather my well earned money that gets mauld by our government went to better use...

And im sure most peopl would not be able to tell, from 30 feet if it was a 'G' or 'C with a screw' anyway...........

Saddos???? someoen isn't having a good day...

[smiley=smoking.gif]


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## itextt (May 4, 2003)

I don't agree with it but the law is the law, you broke it and you know you were, so stop moaning.


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## CH_Peter (May 16, 2002)

You were breaking the law. : Accept that this guy was doing his job - undoubtedly as a traffic police officer. If you agree with the law or not is your opinion. However, there is no grey area for the police. The law is laid down and they enforce it. When the law changes so that you can fiddle with letters to make it look 'cool' (and please note, a number plate is never going to be 'cool') and make it easy to remember because your mental faculties don't stretch to remembering a few numerals and letters, then you will have every right to protest. Yes, it is a small offence, and yes, agreed, it is irritating. But it is right.

A friend of mine works in the Met, and used to be 'on the beat'. One of his favourites was to check for illegal plates and fake or out-of-date tax discs. I lost count of the number of stolen or ringed cars he picked up just by using this. Had your car been stolen, and he pulled it and run a check on it, how grateful would you be now?

I am not looking to offend with this post, but feel that people who witter about getting speeding fines (and yes, I've had my share) getting pulled for their tinted windows or number plates, should have had the foresight to realise what they were doing was illegal (however 'minor' the offence might seem), and they could be nicked for it. Why the hell are you complaining about it? Bottom line: You knew you were doing wrong, did it anyway, and got nicked.

Pete

PS No, I'm not a copper.


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## UK225 (May 12, 2002)

Sorry to hear your news m8 

Cant say I agree with most peoples reaction to this, ok he was a traffic cop, everyday I am on the motorway I see vehicles with bits of trim, exhuasts about to fall of, defective brake lights etc etc

Plod would do better to nick these people as at the end of the day an incorrectly spaced number plate aint gonna cause an accident.

Oh & by the way a m8 of mine was a traffic officer, he said to me if it was just a change in spacing ( like mine) & it was not taking the piss in trying to make say a l & a 3 look like B, didnt have italics, & no dodgy spaced screws he would let it go as they have better things to do :-*


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2003)

You guys just don't get it do you.

There is no relationship between law, justice or morality.

Dont try to think there is any connection between them at all !


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## UK225 (May 12, 2002)

Surely if you break the law & get caught you will then have to face justice in the courts, seems like a relashonship to me :


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

> You guys just don't get it do you.
> 
> There is no relationship between law, justice or morality.
> 
> Dont try to think there is any connection between them at all !


well said that man!

there are some people who believe EVERY arrest is warranted, then there are those who are just getting out after spending a lot of their own time in prison fighting the courts, going through appeals only to be found innocent, but hey lets not mention that.


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2003)

Did someone say the police are there to enforce the law and they're just doing their job. Where do you live? When did you last try to get the police to do something about a real crime? The police enforce those bits of the law that are easiest and most profitable for them to enforce, i.e.basically motorists and soft targets. I read that the latest money raising trick is to ticket school kids who are playing truant. This should be the business of the school not the police, but they can see a nice little low risk earner when they see one.

The government are making money selling plates that they know are going to be mis-spaced so it's no surprise that this happens. If the police don't like it they should lobby the government to stop selling these plates. But of course they won't because they're making money and the government's making money so everyone's happy - except the motorist who is regarded as a bottomless pit for taxation and fines. They can push it so far but I think eventually there's going to be a rebellion. The police should remember that they police by consent. If they lose the support of the law-abiding middle classes then their job will become impossible. Â

It's sad that that some people on this BB are too stupid to even recognise when they're being fleeced.


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

> > The government are making money selling plates that they know are going to be mis-spaced so it's no surprise that this happens.


agreed, go through the back of any Autotrader and you will find numerous ads selling private plates with enticing mis-spelt registrations ( K4TEY, could be KATEY ) surely these should then be pulled from the magazine as actively encouraging people to alter the plate.still there though arent they..........


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## CH_Peter (May 16, 2002)

Sorry, but whatever issues you have with policing I still say:

Bottom line: You knew you were doing wrong, did it anyway, and got nicked. I think you need to let it lie.

It's not hurting anyone, but the number plates are, under law, required to be set out a certain way. You can't complain if you are stopped when you do not comply and knew in advance!

I would also add that it was not a sensible comment to ask the officer if he had nothing better do to. A bit of humility and the promise to rectify might have saved you the fine. You never know.

I find the police have been unable to help me and my family on several occasions. I also have any number of issues with speed cameras, speed limits and speeding policies in general (cameras are money making machines that I HATE WITH A PASSION, when placed outside of known accident black spots). Both sets of grandparents have been robbed, with the police unable to find culprits or stolen goods. But if you do wrong and know and get caught, then, regardless of how insignificant you think your crime is, don't witter about it.

Pete


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Just a thought, from a purely logical point of view - I guess the officer could have asked you if you had nothing better to do than create a plate you knew to be illegal, meaning the police had to divert resources from more life-saving oriented tasks?

Personally, although I wouldn't do it, I agree that if a plate is clearly readable both my man and machine, then what's the problem? (Actually, I know what the problem is - it's about helping the police work out what partially remembered plates are using the rules that correct spacing brings, if there has been a crime, but from a speeding or parking point of view...)

I don't agree with the arguments on this thread that "surely a word is easier to remember than random letters and numbers". If you put a word in to the DVLA computer, you're not going to get a match are you?

Clive


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## SaulTTR (Apr 30, 2003)

Fair enough the no. plates slightly illegal, so is mine (k 2AUL) but it is clearly readable and i'm not doing any harm so go and pull someone who is 5 times the legal drink drive limit and get of my case you jobsworth


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## EKZ225 (May 16, 2003)

Some of the views on this make me lol as if you are all cleaner than clean yeh right,
The bit I dont understand is the Â£30 how does this get the plate changed, when he could have issued a 
document to rectify in 7days this has to be stamped 
at a approved mot station to say the plates are now legal and returned to the police, job done.
Could the Â£30 be revenue if so then its an injustise !!
and some on here take a deep look at yourselfs before preaching.
Reguards,
Phill


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## jgoodman00 (May 6, 2002)

> I agree that if a plate is clearly readable both my man and machine, then what's the problem?


I guess most organisations & businesses have standards to which they adhere. They could do things differently, but it complicates the issue. I therefore think it is right to have a single spacing, & single font. It leaves fewer grey areas.

Regarding people without insurance etc, I cannot help but think the police would rather catch these, but the police-force is a business, & people (stereotyping badly here) who drive without insurance etc, are not generally going to pay there fines. However, people who drive round in TT's with fancy fonts or funny character spacing are likely to pay up. It makes business sense to go after this type & person, & just do the bare minimum with more serious crime.

At the end of the day, I am confident most police people are just like you & I, & find the same things annoying. However, they are not making the decisions, they are merely being told what to do by higher powers obsessed with statistics, which dont actually give a fair representation of society.


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## sno (Jul 2, 2003)

KNOW YOUR RIGHTS.....
(in Scotland anyway)

By Law if you are stopped for say a bald tyre, faulty light etc etc... the Police can prosecute you on the spot... unless you know the law...

If you ask for the ' Vehicle Rectification Act 1997' they MUST give you a HORT1 and a VRA certificate. This allows you to get the offending article fixed in 7 days.

But, If you don't know the law, then the Police DO NOT have to tell you about it.
It's pretty strange.

Also,
If you are driving on an unlit country road and the Police are behind you with light flashing, then you do not have to stop until you are in a lit, habitted area.
I tried it once, well within my rights as the Police man informed me, but after 7 miles he was not impressed...

Mark ( oh no I'm not)


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

Sorry - I have to agree: You broke the law and you got nicked. Surely that's the gamble you take? Personal plates have always seemed a bit strange to me but that's just personal opinion and I don't begrudge people having them - It's a free country. Agreeing with the law is one thing - Abiding by it is another. I hate paying tax but I don't have any choice, so I pay it. I think that all of us on here have at some time broken the law by speeding - If you get nicked then you can't moan about it. Why is this number plate thing any different? You're not going to tell me that someone with a personalised plate which doesn't conform has no idea that it isn't legal.

If there's a plate where the numbers spell something meaningful simply by being written normally then I can see why someone would be aggreived by getting done for it, but you see a lot of PP's with crafty positioning of black/yellow screw caps, L's with the bottom's shopped off, letters with bits missing. That's the sort of stuff which is a red flag to a bored copper.

Whether coppers should be doing something better is immaterial really. If they nab you and you've broken the law what do you expect them to do - Let you off?

Obviously a very emotive subject, given that many cars I see on here have PP's,a lthough most of them look pretty straight to me.


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## Sim (Mar 7, 2003)

Ok my views:

One it is illegal and you knew that so it should not be a surprise when you get pulled.

Secondly, through the focus upon minor crimes quite often major crimes are resolved (see the I got my car back thread).



> I read that the latest money raising trick is to ticket school kids who are playing truant. This should be the business of the school not the police, but they can see a nice little low risk earner when they see one.


There is a correlation between school truancy drug use and youth offending. Now whilst I do not agree that fines are going to solve this problem you can see why it becomes a police matter. Since the introduction of youth offending teams the police are involved through these multi-agency partnerships.



> The bit I donâ€™t understand is the Â£30 how does this get the plate changed,


It does not and I take onboard your point. However, it does go someway towards paying for the officers time or would you prefer this to be paid for by the tax payer?

Finally, I don't know how many times I have seen members of this forum demand punitive justice as someone has damaged their goods. Research overwhelming illustrates that this does not work and more constructive measures are needed - a touch of hypocrisy?


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## jhaig (Sep 8, 2003)

Only a few weeks ago we are calling for the necks of the people who nicked TT badges and scratched our babies

http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/YaBB.pl?board=WebTTForum;action=display;num=1064763915;start=

But as soon as we are a little bit in the wrong oh no we shouldn't get punished - get a grip boys - it is illegal even if it doesn't seem to matter - as Sim said if it wasn't for a copper pulling over an illegal plate he would have never got his car back - think how grateful you'd be if you had lost your plate

Soz - got my two pence in earlier but decided to insert a pound for more fun :


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## andytt (Sep 25, 2002)

I got nabbed for the same thing, ilegally spaced lettering.

You see all these Gary boys farting about with neon lights under their cars, plates in itallics

and then.... then!!!!... you get all these f-ers who f about with f-ing foglights on ALL F-IN DAY!!

IT'S NOT F-IN FOGGY .... AND ALTHOUGH IT'S ILLEGAL... DO YOU SEE PLOD DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT!!! nooooo!oo!ooo!

Â£30 - thats a night out and food and a taxi at the local Students Uinon for Christs sake!


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

> IT'S NOT FUKIN FOGGY YOU BELL-END.... AND ALTHOUGH IT'S ILLEGAL... DO YOU SEE PLOD DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT!!! nooooo!oo!ooo!
> 
> FUCKIN WIDE-O'S!


too busy stopping all those with dodgy plates  ;D


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## X-UFO (Jun 9, 2003)

Why oh why do people on here say things like....

My rear view mirror is misted up - someone replies - take it back to the Stealer, demand they pay for an eye test in case your vision is now impaired since this, get them to replace the whole front of the car blah blah blah.......

Also, stopped by the Police? Get them to give you an XYZ certificate and they should also by law 1234 dated 1867 be able to show you that they have brushed their teeth before going on duty. If they fail to do this you can just drive off law 5678 dated 1832.

Both of these things (with a Stealer and with the PLODS) will get their backs up straight away and you'll end up with the PLODS taking an even better look at your car to find something wrong.

Just have a little note in your pocket pre-written and hand it to them.

The note should say............

'It's a fair cop, society is to blame'


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## EKZ225 (May 16, 2003)

SIM WROTE
It does not and I take onboard your point. However, it does go someway towards paying for the officers time or would you prefer this to be paid for by the tax payer?

Yes thats what I pay taxes for not to provide hotel rooms for asylum seekers,if fines road fund licence fees were spent onthe roads wee'd have the best roads in the world
Sim if you think the Â£30 pound goes towards his salary
dream on !!
Phill


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## Dubcat (Jun 10, 2002)

> Yes thats what I pay taxes for not to provide hotel rooms for asylum seekers,


See 'wife swop' thread in flame room.


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

You knowingly broke the law, therefore you deserve the fine. You might not see it as time well spent by the police, but I do (and I pay taxes too).

If the police target the so-called "minor offenders" like yourself, this permeates through society, creating a sense of lawfulness. Another example is clamping down on offences like dropping litter, sleeping on the street etc etc. If you can't get away with minor offences, you're less likely to commit more serious offences. This approach was proven to work in New York under Guilani.


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## Sim (Mar 7, 2003)

> Another example is clamping down on offences like dropping litter, sleeping on the street etc etc. If you can't get away with minor offences, you're less likely to commit more serious offences. This approach was proven to work in New York under Guilani.


Broken windows theory!



> not to provide hotel rooms for asylum seekers


I cannot believe some of the simplistic and small-minded comments that are thrown around this forum at times.


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## Sim (Mar 7, 2003)

Can we watch the language on here.

cheers


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2003)

Just pay the f-ing Â£30 and everyone stop harping on about it. Christ.


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## SaulTTR (Apr 30, 2003)

Flame room anybody? ;D


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

> Broken windows theory!


 ???


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## jgoodman00 (May 6, 2002)

> Another example is clamping down on offences like dropping litter, sleeping on the street etc etc.


I agree 100% with that sentiment. I would make it a compulsory 15yr sentence for driving without insurance as well. Instead of building more houses, I would build more jails. Then actually clamp down on the law, & lock all the scum away for a very long time...


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## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

> Can we watch the language on here.
> 
> cheers


Agreed.


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## Sim (Mar 7, 2003)

Broken Windows theory is debatable, James Q. Wilson and George Kelling developed the `broken windows' thesis to explain the signaling function of neighborhood characteristics. This thesis suggests that the following sequence of events can be expected in deteriorating neighborhoods. Evidence of decay (accumulated trash, broken windows, deteriorated building exteriors) remains in the neighborhood for a reasonably long period of time. People who live and work in the area feel more vulnerable and begin to withdraw. They become less willing to intervene to maintain public order (for example, to attempt to break up groups of rowdy teens loitering on street corners) or to address physical signs of deterioration.

Therefore by focusing upon minor crimes and keeping the streets clean and tidy it is argued this will instil a stronger sense of law and order.


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

AndyTT: Can I ask how you KNOW for sure that those using Fog Lights during the day, or with blue neon all over the car are not getting stopped and fined? It seems that this is your assumption. If you've got figures to support your point of view can you post them please? (Not sarcastic - Truly would be interested if figures exist in the public domain on this stuff).

The daylight fog brigade and the boy racers who bomb around with all sorts of toot peppering a biscuit tin on wheels passing for a car irritate the pants off of me but I am equally irritated by those who reckon that they have some god given right to muck about with number plate letters and not get stopped for it, when they know it's wrong. No doubt some of this stuff appears (and is) petty but it's legislation and it is supposed to cover every eventuality (clearly it appears not to in most cases but that's another thread...). They can't make exceptions can they?

Uncomfortable as it may seem, the question for anyone stopped with a "dodgy" plate has to be:

Is the plate legal?

The question simply has to be answered with a yes or a no. There is no grey area in the eyes of the law. If no, then don't expect leniency or sympathy as the last person you're going to get that from is a cozzer. You can fudge the argument as much as you like and whine about common sense etc. (which, I agree, does appear to be missing from so many situations these days) but the only thing that matters to a cozzer is that you broke the law and that he is within his rights (whether you agree with them or not) to issue a penalty. it takes a certain sort of person to want to work for the Police (I'll leave the description of them up to you!) but generally they're people who are pretty inflexible when applying the law.

Even if someone doesn't know they're breaking the law, ignorance can't be taken as an excuse. For my money, most people who muck about with their plates are fully aware that it's not legal but assume that it's a "soft" offence and that they should therefore get off.

I'm not whiter than white and pure as snow - Far from it - But I'm smart enough to know that the less "grey area" bits and pieces you have on your car, the more chance there is that a cozzer will pay little or no attention to you. That's just how I like it!


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

> Broken Windows theory is debatable, James Q. Wilson and George Kelling developed the `broken windows' thesis to explain the signaling function of neighborhood characteristics. This thesis suggests that the following sequence of events can be expected in deteriorating neighborhoods. Evidence of decay (accumulated trash, broken windows, deteriorated building exteriors) remains in the neighborhood for a reasonably long period of time. People who live and work in the area feel more vulnerable and begin to withdraw. They become less willing to intervene to maintain public order (for example, to attempt to break up groups of rowdy teens loitering on street corners) or to address physical signs of deterioration.
> 
> Therefore by focusing upon minor crimes and keeping the streets clean and tidy it is argued this will instil a stronger sense of law and order.


Excellent. Agree entirely.


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## jgoodman00 (May 6, 2002)

Convengo 100% con ese sentimiento. Le harÃ­a una oraciÃ³n obligatoria 1Ã¿r para conducir sin seguro tambiÃ©n. En vez de construir mÃ¡s casas, construirÃ­a mÃ¡s cÃ¡rceles. Entonces afiance con abrazadera realmente abajo en la ley, y trabe toda la espuma lejos por un tiempo muy largo

Which translated into english is:
I am suitable 100% with that feeling. 1Ã¿r would do an oration to him obligatory to also lead without insurance. Instead of constructing more houses, it would construct more jails. Then it strengthens really down with clip in the law, and far unites all the foam by a very long time

Lol...


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2003)

Sim wrote that "there is a correlation between school truancy drug use and youth offending". This may be true but it is illogical to deduce from this that, if you crack down on truancy, drug use and youth offending will also decrease. They are what are called cofactors, not cause and effect. Unsurprisingly, the way to eliminate drug use is to crack down on drug pushers, not targetting truants, and I repeat that the reason the police are doing the latter is that it's a soft option and brings in money. Targetting drug pushers is hard work and dangerous. It could be financially profitable, though, if the police used their powers to confiscate property which has been gained by criminal activity.

Someone mentioned Giuliani in New York. I used to live in NY and I don't ever remember the police being too bothered about vehicle number plates. The cops there are a hard bunch of b******* who are not afraid of tackling the real villains. I admit that they do have the advantage over our cops in that if they shoot someone who's trying to shoot them they don't get criminal charges pressed against them.


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## mrfish (May 8, 2002)

Most of the serious offenders such as drivers without insurance, tax or carrying stolen goods that the police catch are initially pulled in for minor offences such as number plates or lights.

If I had my way the police would pull over everyone without correct lighting, plates etc and check their documentation, alcohol levels etc. I believe this would make the roads much safer as people would soon realise that the law is not negotiable and needs to be adhered to.

As for asking the policeman why he's not out catching criminals, that's probably not the best way to endear yourself to the officer and seems unwise to me.

Andrew


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

> Someone mentioned Giuliani in New York. I used to live in NY and I don't ever remember the police being too bothered about vehicle number plates.


How would you know? Did you have an illegal plate? The fact that you don't remember doesn't in any way imply that they didn't, or indeed still don't. I'm not _aware_ of them being "bothered" about it in the UK, but it would appear they are - hence this thread. Anyway, the point here is about the minor offences that people like you think do not matter. They do. They create (what Sim referred to as the broken window theory) an environment where people don't want to live, and allow crime to pay.

This doesn't mean you let the drug pushers go - you chase them as well. The point most people are making on this thread is that by clamping down on minor offences _as well_ as the big offences you help bring the overall crime rate down, and consequently people's quality of life.


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2003)

The technology is available to allow the police to check on a vehicle's insurance using their in-car link to the PNC. They just haven't set up the database yet. Maybe this should be a priority since it's estimated that 1 in 20 cars is uninsured. When it comes to stopping cars I'd be happier if they stopped cars/trucks that pour out pollution - like almost every diesel. I'm not too bothered about the number plate. Â

BTW Raven, you're the guy missing the point. The point is that time spent pursuing mis-spaced number plates and the like is time that can't be spent trying to catch real criminals. Pick the bones out of that. The point about NY is that the place was made safe by targetting VIOLENT crime, and it was done in a fairly brutal manner. But I can assure you it had a fairly dramatic effect. I was pulled up once in NY for making an illegal turn. The guy gave me a hard time for about 5 minutes and then just said "Get lost kid". It's a different attitude. Â Â


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## Sim (Mar 7, 2003)

> Sim wrote that "there is a correlation between school truancy drug use and youth offending". This may be true but it is illogical to deduce from this that, if you crack down on truancy, drug use and youth offending will also decrease. They are what are called cofactors, not cause and effect.


Agree to some extent that is why I used the word 'correlation' and not 'causation'. Nevertheless, young people who miss school are more at risk of becoming involved in offending and drug use, but the relationship between the two is complex.

Moreover, in terms of your suggested foci on drug dealers and the confiscation of assets is an interesting one. The main problem is, however, that more often than not policing drug markets is at a street level and given the socio-economic conditions of many estates within the UK there are many more dealers to fill the shoes of those caught. Whilst I am not suggesting that we should abandon this all together, more emphasis needs to be placed upon global drug markets. A bumper crop of opiates in Afghanistan this year is simply going to amplify this problem. Recent research for the Home Office illustrates how a kg of heroin can be purchase for Â£500 (when bought in bulk) and sold for Â£35,000 on the streets in the UK. With this kind of money involved it is unsurprising to see the market flourish.

Have we gone off topic?


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## jgoodman00 (May 6, 2002)

> I'm not too bothered about the number plate. Â Â Â


Until a loved one is involved in a hit & run, & when witnesses are asked what the number plate was, all they can say is 'It was in a strange font so I cant be sure'...


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

This is an offence similar to speeding! You do it altough you know it is illegal.

But by having a NIP arriving at your home doesn't do much.

Punishment is not what we need, but education. So in the case of speeding I want the police officer to stop me and give me a lecture instead.

And I would expect the same for the number plate. If you had a lecture about what makes this illegal and you understood it, then you are happy to change your plate and then educate others about your "crime".

But I think that auditt260bhp, blew it when he told them if they had anything better to do! This was VERY bad!! They call the cards and you must show remorse and be apologetic. Accept what they have to tell you and say sorry! This way the plod has a sense of achievement that he educated you and he may not issue the FPN.

It is not all about fines fines fines!! Education is more important and can have better long benefits.

So I do not disagree that this was indeed illegal, but I do disagree with the fact that a fine had to be issued.


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2003)

Yeah we have gone off topic, but it's more interesting than illegal number plates - some people around here seem to think it should be a capital offence.

The interesting thing about the poppy crop in Afghanistan is that after the Yanks had bombed the Taliban into submission they made a concerted attempt to get rid of the crops. They did this by offering to pay farmers to destroy their fields. When the farmers who didn't grow poppies realised this they also decided to grow poppies to get the money for destroying them. The result was a bumper crop of course - particularly when the Yanks (and Brits) decided that they couldn't afford to pay the farmers because there were too many. It just shows that these are complicated problems.

Still think the emphasis should be on serious crime.


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

> BTW Raven, you're the guy missing the point. The point is that time spent pursuing mis-spaced number plates and the like is time that can't be spent trying to catch real criminals. Pick the bones out of that. The point about NY is that the place was made safe by targetting VIOLENT crime, and it was done in a fairly brutal manner. But I can assure you it had a fairly dramatic effect. I was pulled up once in NY for making an illegal turn. The guy gave me a hard time for about 5 minutes and then just said "Get lost kid". It's a different attitude. Â Â Â Â


I will happily "pick the bones" out of what you have just said. We are talking about a traffic cop. One of his core responsibilities is to stop drivers breaking the law. He saw someone with an illegal number plate, ie someone breaking the law, and he stopped and fined them. Period (as they might say in NY ). The fact that you were stopped for performing an illegal u-turn is the same thing, and ironically proves _my_ point. So he didn't fine you. The guy who started this post probably wouldn't have been fined if he hadn't got all clever with the copper and questioned his priorities. I wonder what you said to the NYPD guy? I suspect you apologised, and maybe thought twice about doing it in future.

Oh and by the way, they didnt' just target violent crime in NY. As I said earlier, they targetted ALL crime. From dropping litter and u-turns (as you found out) to shooting someone dead.


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

I agree with most of the people on here - you knowingly did something that is illegal, take your punishment.

What has struck me over the past few months though, is how many people on here want "offenders" hung, drawn and quartered for scratching their car, or removing some badges, but when they are nicked for some motoring offence, get on their high horses with shouts of "no fair, it's all because I am driving a TT"...you have no more right to get away with breaking the law than anyone else.

The law of the land applies to all of us, whether we think the law "is an ass" or not.


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## Sim (Mar 7, 2003)

Exactly!


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## jhaig (Sep 8, 2003)

Theres an echo in here somewhere Â ;D

But point well reput Brett  - I have to support Raven and Vlastan - those of you not doing this will find this thread could get very very long Â  - Also and more importantly BECAUSE THEY ARE RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Matthew (Oct 6, 2003)

Anyway - Change of topic - Raven: How are you finding the V6?


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2003)

They're only right from the most extremely simplistic point of view, Jonners - that is mis-spaced number plates are indeed illegal. The trouble is if the police begin sticking to the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law we're all going to be on the wrong side of it. When that happens the police have lost the support of the public and their job is impossible. You guys will all be bleating when you get fined for 33mph on a dual carriageway somewhere.


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## tunner (Aug 9, 2002)

I look forward to being stopped and fined.

I read a bit in a motoring mag last week saying there would be a crack down by police on illegal spacing. Next moth there will be a crack down on something else.

Funny how I bought my plate from a Government agency that makes a fortune from selling private plates and auctions the 'best' of regularly!


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## scott28tt (Jul 30, 2002)

> Funny how I bought my plate from a Government agency that makes a fortune from selling private plates and auctions the 'best' of regularly!


What's 'funny' about that?

Surely you are only buying the reg no from the DVLA, then it's when you get the physical plates made up you make them legal/illegal :-/


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2003)

Interesting varience in points of view re plod. It seems a pity that they do use motorists as an easy target and I can assure you this is not on directions from above its because they can!!
Someone made the point that if the little offences are prosecuted it creates an atmosphere of lawfullness in society. Really, well when was the last time you saw a copper pull over a car full of yobs throwing their macdonalds out the window or anything similar.NEVER is when.Face up to the fact that the reasonable motorist is an easy target who wont give plod a hard time so who do you expect them to persecute?Us or some gun toting grug dealer?


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

Gone away a little off topic but a village a few miles from me has four pubs in it, one of them is mainly used by kids and when I say kids, I mean kids. As I walked past the window a few weeks ago I peered in and couldn't believe my eyes, there was one lad who could not have been more than 10 years old smoking and had a drink in his hand (Don't know what the drink was mind you). The local police know about this pub because the local village people have complained to them about it and what have the police done - absolutely nothing. As far as I know they haven't even been to visit them let alone sort them out.

Graham


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## CH_Peter (May 16, 2002)

Thought I was done with this thread, but it is an interesting point about the "letter of the law" and the "spirit of the law". This is possibly what our differences of opinion come down to.

I know several police officers, retired and otherwise who would, I think, say they followed more the "spirit" than the "letter" of the law. However, by asking any copper "Haven't you got anything better to do?", you are bound to push him to follow the letter of the law, not offer you any generosity of spirit.

Secondly, people seem to be somewhat objectionable on the point of the copper not tackling "real criminals" and "real crime" - and that this was waste of time. This guy is assigned to traffic duty, and you are committing a traffic offence. It is is job to enforce the law - and you he might well have been pulling you over just to ask you to change the spacing before your ill-advised comments - and it is _you_ who has diverted him from perhaps stopping other more serious offences. If he pulls you for a routine check and notices a problem, no matter how small, it should be actioned by him appropriately - your flippant comment has probably made him think that the fine is appropriate in this case! I also agree with other posts, in which it is stated that tackling the smaller offences persuades people not to commit larger ones and instills a sense of 'lawfulness'.

My 1.5p worth.

Pete

PS Nice to see AndyTT's post bringing the student's intellectual opinion to the thread. Think a few turns at the debating society to hone your discussion skills might be in order.


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## jhaig (Sep 8, 2003)

Guys this is a great debate - I get the feeling we may be chasing our tails a little here - oh well at least we got enough time to read the number plate on our rear end then ;D

CHPeter I am with you I completely agree with your point ........... I suggest manditory studnet debating lessons


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

My number plate is less than a year old and it is already falling apart! The sticky bit comes off the plastic and it has created some bubbles. Will I be stopped next? ;D


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> Until a loved one is involved in a hit & run, & when witnesses are asked what the number plate was, all they can say is 'It was in a strange font so I cant be sure'...


A point mon ami.


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## neilp (May 7, 2002)

Let's not forget that the DVLA retain 'ownership' of the plate and can withdraw it from you at anytime for mis-use, I'd rather not take the risk.


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2003)

A final thought on this thread. Opinion seems to be divided between the majority, who think that the law is the law and if you break it you should expect to pay, and the minority who think that the police should have better things to do. Most people, it seems, don't see the problem with one arm of the state selling plates that encourage mis-spacing, and another arm of the state fining you for doing so. Also, some people seem to think that there is some deep philosophy here, that by prosecuting minor crimes all crime will somehow be reduced.

I personally don't have special number plate. I've just got the X reg 3 digit plate I was issued with. It is extremely difficult to remember and that's why I like it. I don't want a special reg for the simple reason that it would be easy to remember - I can't understand the opinion voiced here that you're more likely to get away with a crime if you have an illegal plate. There's a Lexus around where I live that has the plate Mr BEAN. That is very easy to remember It's actually M18 EAN, I think, with various screws etc. The point is that a person can remember this, but the speed cameras have great difficulty processing it. And that's the fundamental point. This is not about law and order. It's about maximising revenue from cameras, and that's what really hacks me off about it.


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

> A final thought on this thread. Opinion seems to be divided between the majority, who think that the law is the law and if you Â break it you should expect to pay, and the minority who think that the police should have better things to do. Most people, it seems, don't see the problem with one arm of the state selling plates that encourage mis-spacing, and another arm of the state fining you for doing so. Also, some people seem to think that there is some deep philosophy here, that by prosecuting minor crimes all crime will somehow be reduced.
> 
> I personally don't have special number plate. I've just got the X reg 3 digit plate I was issued with. It is extremely difficult to remember and that's why I like it. I don't want a special reg for the simple reason that it would be easy to remember - I can't understand the opinion voiced here that you're more likely to get away with a crime if you have an illegal plate. There's a Lexus around where I live that has the plate Mr BEAN. That is very easy to remember It's actually M18 EAN, I think, with various screws etc. The point is that a person can remember this, but the speed cameras have great difficulty processing it. And that's the fundamental point. This is not about law and order. It's about maximising revenue from cameras, and that's what really hacks me off about it. Â Â Â Â Â


A final response to your final thought...  I don't quite understand your problem with the DVLA selling plates that encourage you to break the law. Do you have a problem with the Dept of Transport building roads that encourage you to drive fast and break the speed limit? Or allowing pubs to have car parks which possibly encourage you to drink and drive? Of course it's a money making scam that they sell plates that look like something else if they are rearranged, and more fool those people who buy the things.

You do have a point about it probably being related to maximising revenue from cameras. But why should the law abiding citizens have their plates clocked for the congestion charge whilst others evade the charge due to their illegal plate? Should the officer just turn a blind eye?

We all hate the speed cameras / revenue generating culture we live in, but that is not the argument here. Forget the fine, it's not the issue either. The point is that by clamping down on ALL crime, quality of life improves for everyone.


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## L8_0RGY (Sep 12, 2003)

> Travelling up the M3 this afternoon, to pick my son up from school, I was pulled over and given a FPN due to my number plate being 'illegal'.
> 
> Out came the plastic ruler and he proceeded to measure the numbers, letters and spacing.
> 
> ...


I more than sympathise with you - i have an illegally spaced number (my username) and was pulled over by the pigs in April on the M4 not for the illegally spaced numberplate but for going into an empty bus lane and overtaking two cars going 40mph in a 60mph.

And guess what...they've summonsed me to go to court for this! The hearing was yesterday but they've adjourned it.

The officer did mention to me "_do you realise you have an illegally spaced numberplate_" The answer was yes, i'm suprised they don't want to take me to court for that as well!!

Do the police really have nothing better to do than pull over innocent motorists who commit these non-offences???


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

> ...and was pulled over by the pigs in April on the M4 not for the illegally spaced numberplate but for going into an empty bus lane and overtaking two cars going 40mph in a 60mph.
> 
> ...
> 
> Do the police really have nothing better to do than pull over innocent motorists who commit these non-offences???


So _we_ are back to deciding what is an offence and what isn't? It was only minor so it doesn't count? Â :-/

Ok, if _we_ now have the power to decide, I pronounce you GUILTY!!! (by your own admission above).


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## L8_0RGY (Sep 12, 2003)

> So _we_ are back to deciding what is an offence and what isn't? It was only minor so it doesn't count? Â :-/
> 
> Ok, if _we_ now have the power to decide, I pronounce you GUILTY!!! (by your own admission above).


Brett, i'm not saying i'm not guilty. I've pleaded Guilty in the Summons i sent to the Court, what i'm saying is it's going to cost about Â£5,000 to take me to court to fine Â£80 for driving in a bus lane which i was in for all of 20-30 seconds.

Yes i knew it was against the law and would have reluctantly handed over the Â£80 if he'd have produced an FPT but he didn't and six months later they want to take me to court to do what they could've done with one sheet of paper sent to my home or given to me then and there.

At the same time, why didn't Mr PC pull over the two lanes of cars doing 40mph on a motorway? I thought that was against the law. I know this would be impossible to do as you can't pull over 4 cars but if you have a car behind on the motorway and you are in the outside lane (fast lane) and they are trying to overtake you you pull over and let them.

Sorry to rant on about this, i'm just quite worked up about it!


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## sno (Jul 2, 2003)

BUS LANES - DOUBLE RED LINES etc etc etc......

In Scotland we have the Bus lanes and we also have Double Red lines.........

I have NEVER seen any publication on either
so how do you know it's an offence for driving on them or parking on them, are we meant to have ESP.... 
Our cars may but we bloody well don't.....

Mark....


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## L8_0RGY (Sep 12, 2003)

> BUS LANES - DOUBLE RED LINES etc etc etc......
> 
> In Scotland we have the Bus lanes and we also have Double Red lines.........
> 
> ...


Another quite funny one is my father found his driving licence from about 1960 and on it were 3 points and a fine for - wait for it - parking on a zebra crossing - yes it is a silly thing to do but three points for that!!

Of course the points have been wiped off now but how silly can you get?


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

> Another quite funny one is my father found his driving licence from about 1960 and on it were 3 points and a fine for - wait for it - parking on a zebra crossing - yes it is a silly thing to do but three points for that!!
> 
> Of course the points have been wiped off now but how silly can you get?


Blimey. I resisted replying to your last post, but this one I just cannot ignore. Has it occurred to you why it is illegal to park on a zebra crossing? Let me try and explain: If a car is parked on a zebra crossing, then they cannot see someone starting to cross the crossing. They have to overtake the parked car which potentially puts the life of the pedestrian at risk. You may laugh at the silly pedestrian crossing the road, but imagine it was your child and perhaps it becomes a bit clearer.

The law is the law. If you break it, expect the consequences. Don't try and distinguish between a minor offence (or non-offence as you put it) and a serious offence. They are all offences. It is not a copper's job to differentiate between offences (although many do let you off with a few words - wisely IMO) but to uphold the law.


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## L8_0RGY (Sep 12, 2003)

> Blimey. I resisted replying to your last post, but this one I just cannot ignore. Has it occurred to you why it is illegal to park on a zebra crossing? Let me try and explain: If a car is parked on a zebra crossing, then they cannot see someone starting to cross the crossing. They have to overtake the parked car which potentially puts the life of the pedestrian at risk. You may laugh at the silly pedestrian crossing the road, but imagine it was your child and perhaps it becomes a bit clearer.


Thanks for your post, yeah i realise it's a stupid place to park but those were the 60's i suppose (i wasn't born for another 21 years), so you can maybe see where i get it from - i have inherited minor motor offences!


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

> have inherited minor motor offences!


*lol* - that would be a good defence in court - "its in my Genes" ;D


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## CH_Peter (May 16, 2002)

> "one arm of the state selling plates that encourage mis-spacing, and another arm of the state fining you for doing so"


I don't see how they are encouraging you to mis-space them. Is it just because they read more easily to the dimwitted, unable to make the leap between 'P3 TER' and 'PETER'? No-one is encouraging you to space them illegally. You make that choice.



> "going into an empty bus lane and overtaking two cars going 40mph in a 60mph"


Agree, seems excessive to take you to court. Bet you will think twice before doing it again, though.

Minimum speed on motorway is either 30 or 40 , I think (could be wrong), so no offence committed, although can be frustrating to other drivers. If this was motorway, a conscientious officer might have pulled them and advised them to drive with more consideration to other motorists. However, there is no other legal minimum speed, unless specifically marked by a blue minimum speed limit sign - IIRC. Will happily be corrected.

Pete


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

> Brett, i'm not saying i'm not guilty. I've pleaded Guilty in the Summons i sent to the Court, what i'm saying is it's going to cost about Â£5,000 to take me to court to fine Â£80 for driving in a bus lane which i was in for all of 20-30 seconds.
> ...
> At the same time, why didn't Mr PC pull over the two lanes of cars doing 40mph on a motorway? I thought that was against the law. I know this would be impossible to do as you can't pull over 4 cars but if you have a car behind on the motorway and you are in the outside lane (fast lane) and they are trying to overtake you you pull over and let them.


Agreed, waste of money to take you to court. I don't know, however, whether they have any specific guidelines/rules which mandate a court appearance, or even if you were simply being made an example of.

On your second point, how is he supposed to pull you and the two other guys over at the same time?


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## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

Amazing how this thread just evolves over time.. not a bad thing though as the discussions have been great and points well made (well, most of them Â  )
The highway code is available on-line ay http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk


> Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined, given penalty points on your license or be disqualified from driving. In the most serious cases you may be sent to prison. Such rules are identified by the use of the words MUST / MUST NOT.


In a discussion I had with BigJon a year or so ago, I was asked how often I buy a copy of the highway code... errr, still got the copy from when I passed my exam 18 years ago ?? I didn't really think I needed to keep myself upto date with the contents. Wrong - the highway code contains the laws for driving - it changes, and unless we read the highway code regularly, we won't know what the laws are Â :-/

So, in answer to 
parking on zebra crossings: http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/18.shtml#167
Bus lanes: http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/11.shtml#120 and http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/22.shtml#215

Couldn't find a minimum speed onthe motorway though... I suspect there isn't one or every driver on the M25 would be breaking the law Â


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## L8_0RGY (Sep 12, 2003)

> Agreed, waste of money to take you to court. I don't know, however, whether they have any specific guidelines/rules which mandate a court appearance, or even if you were simply being made an example of.
> 
> On your second point, how is he supposed to pull you and the two other guys over at the same time?


They could be making an example of me, but who is going to find out that i've been taken to court, it's not like i'm a celebrity or something??!!

As i mentioned in the point you refer to, it would be impossible to pull 4 drivers over.

40mph on an empty M4 on a Saturday morning is TOO slow but there is nothing you can do it about. I use the M4 at least 4 times a week for commuting and so know that stretch of road better than the back of my hand but the law is the law and if they want to waste their money and time taking me to court then there is nothing i can do but grin n bare it.

I certainly will not be using the damn bus lane again although nearly every week i see cars driving - not overtaking - in it but that's Sod's Law.


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2003)

In December using a mobile phone (without a hands-free kit) while driving will become illegal. This has been illegal on the continent for years and it's long overdue here. Thousands of accidents have been caused by this. If you see an erratically driven car then 10 to 1 the driver will have a phone clamped to his/her ear 'ole. I'll be very interested to see if the pigs bother to enforce it, because it's going to involve them in a lot more hassle than measuring a number plate. I guess they probably won't bother.


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## L8_0RGY (Sep 12, 2003)

> In December using a mobile phone (without a hands-free kit) while driving will become illegal. This has been illegal on the continent for years and it's long overdue here. Thousands of accidents have been caused by this. If you see an erratically driven car then 10 to 1 the driver will have a phone clamped to his/her ear 'ole. I'll be very interested to see if the pigs bother to enforce it, because it's going to involve them in a lot more hassle than measuring a number plate. I guess they probably won't bother. Â Â Â


It's funny you should mention this as it reminds me of one of those "Traffic Cops" shows i saw a couple of weeks ago where the BBC were following the Sheffield police around (i think) and a young officer was on his way home but pulled over a driver because he was using his phone.

Turned out the driver was on a provisional driver and didn't either have L plates on or a person to supervise him.

Maybe the police will crack down on phones.


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## Sim (Mar 7, 2003)

> Brett, i'm not saying i'm not guilty. I've pleaded Guilty in the Summons i sent to the Court, what i'm saying is it's going to cost about Â£5,000 to take me to court to fine Â£80 for driving in a bus lane which i was in for all of 20-30 seconds


So driving in a bus lane is okay? Minor crime undertaking in a bus lane?

Would it be still a minor crime if you had caused a major accident? Perhaps a fatal accident involving a bus, would it be still a minor crime?

We have rules and regulations so that our roads are safe - Am I missing something?


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## itextt (May 4, 2003)

Undertaking on a motorway [smiley=stop.gif] and in a bus lane, could be in for a months ban


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## L8_0RGY (Sep 12, 2003)

> So driving in a bus lane is okay? Minor crime undertaking in a bus lane?
> 
> Would it be still a minor crime if you had caused a major accident? Perhaps a fatal accident involving a bus, would it be still a minor crime?
> 
> We have rules and regulations so that our roads are safe - Am I missing something?


It wasn't undertaking, there are three lanes on the m4 eastbound - the outside and middle lane are the normal lanes, and the 3rd lane is to the right of the other two. Therefore is not undertaking but overtaking


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## L8_0RGY (Sep 12, 2003)

> Undertaking on a motorway Â [smiley=stop.gif] and in a bus lane, could be in for a months ban


Please read my last post, there was no one in the bus lane and only two cars each in the other two lanes as far as i could see.

How is this dangerous driving when the bus lane is empty and there are only two cars in the other lanes??


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2003)

It's often very difficult to avoid undertaking sometimes when basically all the lanes are full and the inner lanes are moving faster than the outer. So I guess the old code needs updating. In any case what do you do when some prat decides to drive for miles in the outside lane and won't pull over. It happens every day on the Watford bypass. And I undertake every day. I was watching a guy in a silver Supra the other day literally scything his way down a chokka M4 using every lane possible and it occurred to me that it was a very efficient use of road space - provided he doesn't crash of course.


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## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

Part 242 of the highway code:


> Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.


Note, there's no "MUST /MUST NOT" in the words that indicate law... so I guess technically it's OK to "keep up with the traffic in your lane" even if the next car in your lane is a coupe of miles up the road 
Now, being done for dangerous driving in these conditions is probably another thing altogether :-/


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

Changing tack slightly (if I may)....

2 usual things that are immediately swapped (illegally ) on any given sports bike are the number plate (if only to be made smaller) and the exhaust(s).

When we (ok - hands up) do it, we do so, knowing full well what the possible consequences are.

So - before I blather too much - quick show of hands for how many people would be agreeved if they were pulled over because their exhaust was too loud?

Please note - I am of the group that says 'If I get caught, I'll put my hands up and try to talk my way out of it by being polite and nice'.
I know that what I'm doing is breaking the law, but I'm not going to let that stop me.

Which isn't to say I have the same view about all laws!


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## zarniwoop (May 14, 2002)

> It's often very difficult to avoid undertaking sometimes when basically all the lanes are full and the inner lanes are moving faster than the outer. So I guess the old code needs updating. In any case what do you do when some prat decides to drive for miles in the outside lane and won't pull over. It happens every day on the Watford bypass. And I undertake every day. I was watching a guy in a silver Supra the other day literally scything his way down a chokka M4 using every lane possible and it occurred to me that it was a very efficient use of road space - provided he doesn't crash of course. Â


Passing on the left is not the same as undertaking. There is a big difference! Undertaking involves a lane change to the left, passing, then lane change to the right.
Undertaking is simply passing the traffic to the right, eg in multi lane traffic queues.


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## Wolverine (Dec 22, 2002)

> I got a 30 quid fine, (no points for this), and he said that I could either replace with correct plates or face the possibility of getting pulled again.


Good.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

If anyone wants to or can really be arsed, you can change the law via the lobby or the ballot box. It's up to you- just don't grizzle or moan about it being fair by your interptretation about what's reasonable and just and what isn't. The law is as exact as it can be until it's changed. And change is in our hands.

Do something if you really feel agrieved, or shut up.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

> If anyone Â wants to or can really be arsed, you can change the law via the lobby or the ballot box. Â It's up to you- just don't grizzle or moan about it being fair by your interptretation about what's reasonable and just and what isn't. Â The law is as exact as it can be until it's changed. And change is in our hands.
> 
> Do something if you really feel agrieved, or shut up.


Do you think that it is so easy to change a law? : And even if it was, then I am sure there would be people opposing the change, because they believe it is fine! :-/


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

> Do you think that it is so easy to change a law? Â : And even if it was, then I am sure there would be people opposing the change, because they believe it is fine! Â :-/


And do you think harping on about doing something illegal and then moaning at being caught for it will acheive anything? :

If you don't wanna get nicked, don't break the law.


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## X-UFO (Jun 9, 2003)

If a driver is caught driving under the infuence of drugs (e.g. cannabis) could they also be stopped by the police for being ILLEGALLY SPACED?

;D


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

> And do you think harping on about doing something illegal and then moaning at being caught for it will acheive anything? :
> 
> If you don't wanna get nicked, don't break the law.


Fine...but this doesn't actually answers my question. :-/


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

I didn't think you wanted an answer as it appears to be a rhetorical question.

If you want an answer then it's :

No, it's not easy. Â :


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Correct answer!

So Gary's point is not valid!


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

So just because something is hard to do you shouldn't try? :-/


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

It is not just hard...it is almost impossible for us.

There are very few cases where an individual campaign managed to change a law.


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

So you think there is only 1 person, an individual, who would like to see this law changed?


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Clive,

An individual campaign!

Not an individual person!


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

Interesting thread....

From what I remember having worked on AudiTT260bhp's car....we had a discussion on plates and I'm fairly sure I said "you are more likely to get pulled for yours than mine"

Although the spacing was correct, the font was not the legal typeface...it wasnt silly italics but still wasnt the expected legal font and certainly no less readable than the legal font.

however, those that know my plate the font is legal the spacing is not but I have no silly dots or change characteristics Â to alter letters.

I believe that it will be ok and have had my car looked at a few times up close, even last saturday on our way home from Scotland a traffic officer looked around the car and chatted to us about the group.

There is some logic in saying that W4 KTT is no less readable than W4K TT and the boys in blue will turn a blind eye because its a stupid argument to persue regardless of the law on spacing. And I fully appreciate I am more at risk than those following the letter (no pun) of the law!

The change in fonts and italics and dots/dashes is a whole new dimension which carries with it a much higher risk in my opinion.

All in all I do feel there is some merit in saying the plate in question didnt deserve a pull although questioning the cops was a bad move.

I would rather they look into the recent theft from my driveway rather than pulling over number plate offenders.

Unfortunately minor traffic offences will gain more revenue whereas my theft crime will only cost! Â :-/


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## S-Line (May 6, 2002)

Sorry W4k TT have to disagree with you on your last post.

We have the same font as yours (legal) with your facing (not legal) and have been fined by two different police forces in the last 12 months.

If in life you break the law you must except the punishment.


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## r1 (Oct 31, 2002)

Well I got pulled two months ago for a dodgy plate (on the bike tho not the car) and got the Â£30 fine and considered myself lucky really. They ignored the race can and blacked out visor both of which carry a similar fine. It jsut goes to prove that the police can use their discretion sometimes and I for one have always ridden around with the knowledge that a pull was just round the corner as the plate is so blatantly illegal.

As they say - stop the whinging.


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## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

Blimey, I go away for 6 days and when I return the thread's got a whopping 11 pages to trawl through!

Anyway, some of you need to get off your high horses a bit. My gripe wasn't the fact that I've got a Â£30 fine for the numberplate, but more that his time could have been put to better use.

And, before you all start up again, my question about the use of his time was put to him _after_ he had issued the ticket!!

Here's the plate:










No illegal spaces, no dots or bolts. Just a difference to a legal font.

So before some of you get out of your cars and go jumping on my back: I appreciate the plate isn't legal and accept the consequence, I have paid the fine and again accept this but my original post stated that my gripe was that resources could be put to better use than on the above plate.

Whether you agree with that sentiment or not is up to you but don't tell me to 'stop dripping' or call me a 'whinger' when you obviously haven't the intelligence to decipher the main theme in the first place!!!


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## Wolfsburger (Oct 21, 2002)

> Anyway, some of you need to get off your high horses a bit. My gripe wasn't the fact that I've got a Â£30 fine for the numberplate, but more that his time could have been put to better use.
> 
> And, before you all start up again, my question about the use of his time was put to him _after_ he had issued the ticket!!


But he was a traffic copper (on the M3) attending to a traffic offence! You accept that your plate isn`t legal, why can`t you accept that he WAS doing his job! :

Now, stop dripping and get it changed, it looks like it should be on a Nova anyway (are you sure it hasn`t got "You`ve Just Been Nova Taken" on it somewhere)


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2003)

Looking at the plate it wouldn't occur to me that it was illegal. It's pretty sad to get nicked for that. I would guess that the speed cameras wouldn't have any trouble with it either.

I read in the paper the other day that there has been a surge in the numbers of speed cameras vandalised (I wonder why). A popular method is necklacing where a tyre is put over it and set alight. Excellent idea. So the police are now spending money installing CCTV cameras to watch the speed cameras. They say it's cost effective because ecah camer costs abot Â£30k - or Â£60k for the digital ones. It's a funny old world. They're more worried about crime against their cameras than they are about crime against people.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

> but my original post stated that my gripe was that resources could be put to better use than on the above plate.


so does this mean you will change your plates so that the police can get on with more productive things rather than having to pull you over? ???


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## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

> (are you sure it hasn`t got "You`ve Just Been Nova Taken" on it somewhere)


No, it's got a bloody great sticker saying, 'Haven't you got anything else better to do?'.


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

> Sorry W4k TT have to disagree with you on your last post.
> 
> We have the same font as yours (legal) with your facing (not legal) and have been fined by two different police forces in the last 12 months.
> 
> If in life you break the law you must except the punishment.


Can I ask if you were pulled over for the plates or another offence?

It is after all only an opinion, I know its not legally spaced, mearly question the logic in maintaining legal fonts and minimum spacing does not change the legibility of the plate hence is less likely to be questioned.

I can only assume I have been very lucky with having dealt with only police who are impressed with the car not to pick on my plate spacing. 
At no time was I being pulled for anything, just happenned to be around police i.e. approached in petrol stations by passing officers just to chat about cars.

I am curious if in your case you were being pulled over and the plate bacame an additional point to add to their reasoning for pulling you.
:-/


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