# TTOC



## robokn (Feb 21, 2006)

Wouldn't it be nice if someone's first post was not then jumped on to join the TTOC, like it was thE most important thing to sort out as soon as you mention TT


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## ttrev21 (Jan 30, 2009)

Wahaay this could be a fun one.........just going to get my pop corn ready


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Funny I was just thinking that the other day, we get very few new members from this channel so whats the point ? I honestly think it makes us look needy .


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I'd have thought you get plenty of new members from here Andy but maybe it's the way the club is perceived.

On a separate note I was very impressed with some of the Newcastle fans actually applauding Manchester City today showed a bit of class.

"Why not join the TTOC and then spend the whole year wondering why did I bother ....." :wink:


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

jamman said:


> I'd have thought you get plenty of new members from here Andy but maybe it's the way the club is perceived.


Everyone including a couple of committee members think that but it's just not true.



> "Why not join the TTOC and then spend the whole year wondering why did I bother ....." :wink


I'm starting to wonder myself, why pay when you can get everything for free :?


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## IC_HOTT (May 29, 2010)

ive always been confused as to the difference between the forum and being a TTOC member.
What I'm trying to say is that I joined the TTOC to support the ******** from which I have had some brilliant advice and support but clearly they are not really anything to do with each other :?

. . . perhaps they should be more one and the same thing, and as such perhaps eg free members get 'basic' entry to post and PM after 100 posts etc etc , £10 gets things earlier, premium membership gets - whatever . . . . 8)


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

grasmere said:


> . . . perhaps they should be more one and the same thing


Unfortunately with the forum being run as a business for proffit and the club being run by volunteers as a non proffit organisation that can never happen.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Nem said:


> grasmere said:
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> 
> > . . . perhaps they should be more one and the same thing
> ...


Thank god for that


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## IC_HOTT (May 29, 2010)

Nem said:


> grasmere said:
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> 
> > . . . perhaps they should be more one and the same thing
> ...


then the confusion will always exist so perhaps the forum should not be 'home to the TTOC' but 100% separate entities?


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## paul4281 (Jan 25, 2010)

Nem said:


> Unfortunately with the forum being run as a business for proffit and the club being run by volunteers as a non proffit organisation that can never happen.


It costs nothing to join the TTF, which I did first to find out about the car & then I decided to join the TTOC after I had bought my car.

Sent from paul4281's iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

grasmere said:


> Nem said:
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> 
> > grasmere said:
> ...


If that means we see less of the "Join the TTOC" propaganda I'm all for it because there is obviously some confusion amongst new forum members thinking that the forum is the TTOC and visa versa.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Nem said:


> grasmere said:
> 
> 
> > . . . perhaps they should be more one and the same thing
> ...


There was a period a few years ago when the association between the TTOC and the TTF was declared as being closer. This followed confusion amongst TTF users (like yourself 'grasmere') over the relationship between the two 'clubs'. This is the reason for the 'Home to the TTOC' banner you see on the forum pages.

The TTF has recently been run as a commercial enterprise but it raises funding by charging sponsors and advertisers for the right to promote services and products to TTF subscribers.

On the other hand the TTOC raise funding by selling memberships to their club.

Nick's comment that the forum is being run "as a business for prof(f)it" is a little harsh and that certainly was not the motivation when it was conceived. The simple fact is that as popularity has increased so businesses have seen the opportunity to advertise to a small but targetted audience. Who would honestly blame the owners of the forum for exploiting that to their own advantage by making money from it? Somebody has to pay for server time and for maintaining the system and by taking advertisers it has allowed the service to remain free to members.

By contrast the TTOC relies mainly on annual memberships. In order to generate memberships the TTOC tries to offer services that are unavailable elsewhere or at a discount for members. It also organises the annual event and numerous other meetings throughout the year. As Nick says, it is run by volunteers. These are generally elected annually by the membership of the TTOC only. TTF members have no say in the running or funding of the TTOC unless they are also members of the TTOC.

The problem for the TTOC is that discounts or membership 'privileges' are often available to TTF subscribers anyway or simply for the asking by individuals. This of course undermines one of the reasons for TTOC membership.

Without membership fees coming in the TTOC will not survive so it seems sensible for the club to target new subscribers to the TTF (who are most likely to be new TT owners too). These are the most likely people to join apart from those who are existing members who feel loyalty to the club or who benefit in some way from membership.

This is the crux of the problem. In these financially difficult times everyone is seeking value for money and cutting back expense where it is unnecessary. The problem the TTOC has is convincing members and non-members that the membership fee is necessary and that TT ownership can be considerably enhanced by being part of the club.

Opinions on the club's ability to do that are wide, varied and well-documented on this forum.

I cannot really understand the club stance that it must be a 'non-profitable' organisation. What is so offensive about making a profit? That money can be ploughed back into the club for the benefit of the club. Profits could be used to provide a bigger and better National Event for example.

One reason given by members for renewing their club membership is the club magazine. Compared to offerings by some other clubs, AbsoluTTe is a quality production but it costs a lot to produce. The TTOCs answer to that is to provide an online version. Whilst that might bring a wider readership does it actually provide an increase in membership or as a club do you think you might be undermining one of the strongest reasons for joining? I'd be curious to know but I suspect it has had a detrimental effect. Why pay for something if you can obtain it free? We live in a digital age and no matter how you feel morally about 'stealing' digital content, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone on here who has not downloaded something illegally.

Another problem with the TTOC is communication. I spend a great deal of time on the forum but with the exception of John-H I rarely see TTOC committee members regularly starting TT related threads or having a presence in a purely contributory way. There is no doubt that some like Nick, Danni and John love the TT but it seems to me that the forum is used as a promotional soundboard by the TTOC and that seems to be Rob's point.

Moving on...

Latterly we have witnessed a certain amount of public 'bitching' amongst the TTOC committee...

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=274555

This cannot be good for the image of the club and is a clear sign that all is not well within it. As the TTOC has it's own closed forum for discussion amongst the committee members (how many people know that?) then there is already a vehicle for all of the hierarchy to discuss differences in private. The question has to be then, "Why discuss it on an open forum?"

And what of committee members who rarely seem to appear on the TTF? How are TTF subscribers supposed to 'get to know' these people?

In conclusion I am only guessing that all is not well within the TTOC. It is up to the committee members to decide how well or unwell the club is.

The sad fact is that without membership the club has no lifeblood. In order to get the membership the club must talk to the punters. But in order to talk, the club must have something to say.


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## Gizmo68 (Feb 26, 2012)

robokn said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if someone's first post was not then jumped on to join the TTOC, like it was thE most important thing to sort out as soon as you mention TT


Glad I am not the only one thinking this. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Pointless 'copy and paste' welcomes are just that as well - pointless, by all means welcome the member, but if they have asked a question in their thread then FFS answer it!

It would IMO be much better if the resident welcome troll actually welcomed the member properly, he could then have a non pushy link in his signature to join the TTOC rather than:



Look I can copy and paste... so give me some money said:


> Welcome don't forget to join the TTOC http://www.TTOC.co.uk


Which TBH would (and indeed does) put me off wanting to be a part of something so pushy.


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## Phil_RS (Mar 2, 2010)

Having recently joined TTOC I sort of agree with some of the comments above. However, it was pretty clear to me that TTOC and The TT Forum were two separate things but with a strong link between them which seemed like a sensible solution as it means the one forum should be much stronger rather than two forums.

Having said that, I don't understand why there are three different forums that a TTOC member could post in:

1. The general TT Forum pages;
2. The TTOC forum pages on the TT forum; and 
3. The Member support area on the TTOC website

I can see the point in 1 and 2 but surely not many people use 3 which must be a waste of resources?


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

The idea of being "Not for Profit "is that we plough any profits back into events . This years evenTT12 has reduced entry fees because we have some money available.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Wallsendmag said:


> The idea of being "Not for Profit "is that we plough any profits back into events . This years evenTT12 has reduced entry fees because we have some money available.


So it IS profit making then. What you are doing is reducing the profit to zero for tax purposes by re-investing. That is not the impression I got from what Nick was saying. If that is so then are you doing all you can commercially to run the club like a business? How is the club marketed for example?


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Not my area sorry ,but I'm sure someone will be along soon.


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## TTMBTT (Jul 22, 2010)

Wallsendmag said:


> Not my area sorry ,but I'm sure someone will be along soon.


Following this thread, interested, and still waiting!!!!!!


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## Phil_RS (Mar 2, 2010)

rustyintegrale said:


> Wallsendmag said:
> 
> 
> > The idea of being "Not for Profit "is that we plough any profits back into events . This years evenTT12 has reduced entry fees because we have some money available.
> ...


There is clearly a difference between not-for-profit and a business.

The club is not-for-profit on the basis that it is effectively mutual trading (i.e. members putting in money to be spent on the members) and with excess funds, which I would consider to be different from profit, being reinvested in the club on those same members.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Phil_RS said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> > Wallsendmag said:
> ...


Yeah okay, that is fine. I'm just trying to establish if there are excess funds be it profit or not. Then what is done with it. I'm not trying to start some kind of financial investigation, I'm just trying to see if there are ways that these excess monies might be put to better use to generate more income from memberships.

I'm no accountant!


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## Phil_RS (Mar 2, 2010)

I'm not an accountant but work for an accountany firm and have come across other mutual funds/memberships and generally all the money is just ploughed back in to what ever is required.

Clearly can't comment on how the excess funds are used by the TTOC, but I would imagine this is up to the committee (who are voted in?) and so long as they are used for the benefit of the club, can be put towards anything from ongoing running costs, reducing fees for events, advertising etc.

I guess your question though really needs to be answered by someone who knows if there is say a marketing budget spent on advertising etc.

Appreciate my previous comment was a bit abrupt but not intended to be!


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Phil_RS said:


> Appreciate my previous comment was a bit abrupt but not intended to be!


Not at all!

I'm not really interested in what the committee does with the money. Like you say, the members are voted in and it is then up to them what they do with the funds.

This whole discussion is more about what positive steps can be taken to raise the profile of the club and thus build membership. The money aspect only came about because I was interested in the reasoning for the TTOC not wishing to 'make a profit'. I think we may have got the motive for that question misconstrued!


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## slg (May 6, 2005)

Why not join the TTOC then & therefore have a voice as a member?


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

slg said:


> Why not join the TTOC then & therefore have a voice as a member?


I am an ex-member and for a short period, an ex-committee member so I have had my turn at trying to effect changes from within the club.

Let's just say it didn't work out and the problems back then were very much what the problems are now.


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

rustyintegrale said:


> slg said:
> 
> 
> > Why not join the TTOC then & therefore have a voice as a member?
> ...


What problems :?: if you are not a member and have not been for a number of years how would you know of any problems with in the TTOC at the moment :?:


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

YELLOW_TT said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> > slg said:
> ...


I wouldn't. But since you're here now perhaps you would enlighten us. Or just confirm that there aren't any and everything is hunky dory.


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## Phil_RS (Mar 2, 2010)

rustyintegrale said:


> Phil_RS said:
> 
> 
> > Appreciate my previous comment was a bit abrupt but not intended to be!
> ...


Agreed - It's difficult to know how money can be put to good use to build the membership base as a lot of marketing, google ads etc seem pretty expensive and very difficult to determine if it is that that actually contributed to a member joining.

Wold be interested now to hear from someone in the know on what is currently being done, if anything?


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

rustyintegrale said:


> ]Why not join the TTOC then & therefore have a voice as a member?
> 
> I am an ex-member and for a short period, an ex-committee member so I have had my turn at trying to effect changes from within the club.
> 
> Let's just say it didn't work out and the problems back then were very much what the problems are now.


What problems :?: if you are not a member and have not been for a number of years how would you know of any problems with in the TTOC at the moment :?:

I wouldn't. But since you're here now perhaps you would enlighten us. Or just confirm that there aren't any and everything is hunky dory.[/quote]

I can and am happy to confirm they there are no problems with the TTOC have not been for a long long time and everything is hunky dory


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

YELLOW_TT said:


> I can and am happy to confirm they there are no problems with the TTOC have not been for a long long time and everything is hunky dory


Hurrah!

Well in that case I have a marketing suggestion for you. Get that quote printed on a T shirt for every committee member and wear them at every event the TTOC attends. It will do wonders for members' confidence. :wink:

You could even make a sig strip out of it to really get the message across.


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## robokn (Feb 21, 2006)

All very off topic as my original post was why as soon as someone posts generally within a few posts it was join the TTOC. Nothing to do with the state of the club or any problems I believe there is a separate forum section for that. So perhaps that the committee could perhaps make a decision ref this or can I ask people to join my hockey club as we are always looking for new players male or female and the don't need to own a TT


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

rustyintegrale said:


> YELLOW_TT said:
> 
> 
> > I can and am happy to confirm they there are no problems with the TTOC have not been for a long long time and everything is hunky dory
> ...


My last word on the matter if you have so many great and helpful idears join and bring them with you if you are not willing to do that then leave the club to the members to run and enjoy


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

robokn said:


> All very off topic as my original post was why as soon as someone posts generally within a few posts it was join the TTOC. Nothing to do with the state of the club or any problems I believe there is a separate forum section for that. So perhaps that the committee could perhaps make a decision ref this or can I ask people to join my hockey club as we are always looking for new players male or female and the don't need to own a TT


Go on then Where do I sign ? 10.5 100m :wink:


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Wallsendmag said:


> robokn said:
> 
> 
> > All very off topic as my original post was why as soon as someone posts generally within a few posts it was join the TTOC. Nothing to do with the state of the club or any problems I believe there is a separate forum section for that. So perhaps that the committee could perhaps make a decision ref this or can I ask people to join my hockey club as we are always looking for new players male or female and the don't need to own a TT
> ...


I think I could make a good goalie so I am in


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## robokn (Feb 21, 2006)

Andy (Yellow)
That's fine but there is a section for the club and constant promotion on every newbies post looks like its being pushed down there throat

Other Andy bit far for you as we train and play three times a week good times still capable lol


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## robokn (Feb 21, 2006)

Andy there is a shortage of defenders not goalies perhaps you two could share a lift of bum on the trains


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## Gizmo68 (Feb 26, 2012)

robokn said:


> Nothing to do with the state of the club or any problems I believe there is a separate forum section for that. So perhaps that the committee could perhaps make a decision ref this


+1 the way the TTOC is run financially has nothing to do with non members, ALL club committee's I have been involved in are 'non profit' that's to say they certainly make money from membership and events run, but that money is ploughed back into the club.
Most venues will charge to use there site, if enough members do not commit to going to the event then the club has to either cancel the event or agree to sub it, without a bank balance then there is no choice but to cancel.

Being a stubborn person (according to SWMBO  ) I have certainly been put off joining the TTOC due to the way it is rammed down forum members throats, I mean "don't *forget *to join the TTOC"

I certainly didn't _forget_ to join something that is not even part of what I joined (the forum)


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

YELLOW_TT said:


> My last word on the matter if you have so many great and helpful idears join and bring them with you if you are not willing to do that then leave the club to the members to run and enjoy


Andy, that is exactly what I have done in the past. However I got frustrated by the unwillingness to make change (so no change there then). If that situation should ever differ I'd be more than willing to try again.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Ok some good points made. The obvious point of commonality is that everyone who comes on here is interested in the TT and other things related to TTs. So we have a forum which Jae started and a club that Russel started and then Mark re-started and the two have run along together over 12 years sharing resources and enthusiasm and helping each other out.

There is a point to this and that's one in strength of numbers. Keeping the whole thing together becomes a "great attractor" for others who want to share our interest in TTs. It would not help either club or forum for us all to go our separate ways for example, as that would diminish all concerned and fragment what is recognised as a great community of people who share a common passion for their cars. That's why we are all inter-related and support each other and why some don't realise the two are separate - but then again we aren't are we.

The forum is a commercial website and the TTOC's profit is ploughed back into the club for its members - clearly the forum earns money from advertising but provides a free facility to members. The TTOC also earns money from advertising but the TTOC's main funding comes from its membership for which we offer various benefits such as, dare I say, an award winning magazine that I've been proud to help with and some fantastic organised events, merchandise and discounts etc.

As a forum member you do not have to partake in the extra benefits of the club and can just use the free facility that the forum provides but if you want to take up the extra benefits of the club you are welcome to. That can be from attending the odd event to becoming a member. I don't see anything wrong with telling new members this - it's likely the first time they will have heard it. We are all here to help each other out - it's a community - long may it continue to be so


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

robokn said:


> All very off topic as my original post was why as soon as someone posts generally within a few posts it was join the TTOC.


I have to say Rob that I do think you have a point to some degree, in that it is slightly aggressive to have "join the ttoc" on every newbies first post. I'm not sure I can see any particulate downside but after reading the comments on this thread it certainly needs thinking about.

I will say tho that this is not something the club committee has asked asked reps or members to do, it's not a tactic we have put in place but simply people who are enthusiastic for the club trying to help promote it on our behalf.

I will raise it for discussion at the next committee meeting, we have just in the last couple of weeks taken on a marketing secretary to join the committee, a position we've had vacant for a long time and is an area I'm hoping we can now start to improve on.

Nick


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## phope (Mar 26, 2006)

The club is not run on a not for profit basis (in that none of the money received from club activities is taken out of the club), but in the last two financial years (club financial year runs from 1st April to 31st March each year), the club has earned more than it has spent...I don't call it profit - I call it a club surplus or a club deficit

*Remember, it's not the club's money...it belongs to the members* - none of the committee or reps take any money for their time, other than for expenses incurred for things like stamps, envelopes, etc or where they have paid for something out of their own pocket, then reclaimed it from the club monies

For arguments sake, if the TTOC were to wind itself up today, and split all the cash held in the bank account equally between all members, regardless of whether they are a premium member or a web member, they'd get about £10 each so lets be clear here....this is not a massive money making scam!

The club accounts for 2011/2012 are ready in a draft form, and I have just sent Dani the first batch of records asking her to audit - I'll get the second batch prepared later this week

In 2010/2011, the club had a surplus of £1649. In 2011/2012, the surplus, in draft form anyway, is a bit higher - plan is to have the club financial summary ready to present to members at the AGM at EvenTT12, then publish it in an upcoming issue of AbsoluTTe

Having a little bit of money in the club bank account gives the committee more flexibility to support reps holding events - you can see evidence of that flexibility in things like the club committing itself last year to booking discounted track time at Audi Driver International where we had to pay £800 for the slots up front, and then run the risk of not selling them on to members. Another recent example (today in fact) is giving reps money from club funds to pay for a trophy for their event (Bedford Autodrome event in case you are wondering)

Things like the Audi Driver International track sessions were very popular with club members, and I'm sure we'll repeat that again this year

That contrasts sharply with some previous years and under previous committee members, when the club spent more than it had earned (sometimes a lot more), and it has taken the club a long time to recover financially from the aftermath of holding large events at places like Donnington and Rockingham


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## robokn (Feb 21, 2006)

Peter, et Al,
This was never mean't to be a TTOC beating post!

All I asked was perhaps a little restraint from members who are keen to recruit people into a very good club, I have NO issue about the club whatsoever and if it makes a few bob that is spent on events and self publicity I see no issue in that at all, it needs money to survive and when I attended the AGM a few years ago there was complete transparency about the fiancees and as Peter has just posted that remains.

The club is a good one and serves the members well, I just thought that give the people a moments grace before diving in there, I am really sorry it has fallen into this it was never my intention.

Sorry peeps,


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

one thing i will say in the clubs defence, every time a charity i am undertaking on here the club has donated........more than i can say for the TTF that is making money for profit and donates sod all to anything on here.


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## Duffy (Feb 9, 2011)

Robokn,

Your orginal post raised a valid point which from reading this thread as you have said has just turned into a "have a go at the TTOC".

Everyone has a choice to make in either joining the TTOC or not......same as I have a choice on whether to click on the "date Thai girls" banner or be redirected to open an account with Bank of Scotland on the TTF.

Valid point....pity it was hijacked


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

This is a discussion which is close to my heart as one of the original Committee members.

I'm quite pragmatic in my approach to most things, so I'll try and keep emotion out of this.

As others have stated, the club is not a not-for-profit organisation in the sense that we aim to spend exactly what we earn every year. What was meant by that is that no Committee member can seek to profit from their association with the club. Whether that be financially - or in other ways like free gifts.

Some may remember that I was given signed copies of a TT related book that I wanted for myself. As Editor of the magazine, I gave them away as a prize and had to buy my own copy at a later date.

Which brings me on to part two. For the 10+ years I've been a member of TTF, I've seen it grow from something quite amateur to a very useful and informative place to visit. I've seen attempts to set up rival forums - some with more success than others - but more often than not, this is the first port of call for anyone searching for TT Clubs online.

I actually have no problems with Jae making money from the forum, but in the time I was a Committee member, it was quite clear that our objectives were very different to Jae's. Absolutely everything we did was for the good of the club and its members. (Almost) Everyone volunteered for committee work with the knowledge that it would be time consuming and unpaid. Whereas forum admins and helpers volunteered their time and the forum reaped the profits.

Again, not a problem, just different viewpoints. My biggest bugbear (and this is MY view not a current or even past Committee view) was that I'm a writer by trade and edited the magazine and wrote content for free. Most offers of design 'help' were for it to be paid. My second bugbear was that as a Committee member, anything I posted on here was taken a Club standpoint so I effectively lost my voice on here. Any pisstaking was seen as a vicious attack from a *Committee* member rather than just a bit of pisstaking by a *forum * member.

It is possibly this difference that helped cement the relationship with Audi UK so that they turn up and support TTOC events and allow us exclusive access to content and events. I know it was certain that Audi couldn't have closer links to the TTF because, by nature of forums, a lot of what is said on here is negative. And if they did have closer links, it would have to be moderated so heavy handedly, it would no longer be fun.

For these reasons, In an ideal world the two would be separate, but going back to point one, I think the TTF will continue to be the number one source of information for TT owners as it's so immediate. But its interests are more self-centred than altruistic.

And as forums go (any type of forum) this is a good one. It's moderated lightly enough for you to know that there are moderators, but not heavily enough so it's oppressive. It's a very active forum (even if well over half the official member list has only made 1 post).

So going right back to the original point, I see nothing wrong with introducing TTF members to the TTOC. But maybe it could be done a little more subtly.

(NB - I've not been a committee member for 5+ years so my observations may not be accurate. And they remain my personal views and not those of the current, past or future TTOC Committee.)


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## Phil_RS (Mar 2, 2010)

Shame that the TTOC couldnt take over the forum when it changed hands (although not saying it is run poorly or anything at present) but would have been great bring the forum under the TTOC? Was this considered?


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Phil_RS said:


> Shame that the TTOC couldnt take over the forum when it changed hands (although not saying it is run poorly or anything at present) but would have been great bring the forum under the TTOC? Was this considered?


Jae offered to sell it to the TTOC several years ago when I was on the committee, but given that he wanted 125k for it back then, I doubt the TTOC coffers would have covered it. :wink:


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## paul4281 (Jan 25, 2010)

Maybe the TTOC should add a non-members section to the members support area? & spend some money on web promotion to make it more visual to search engines?

Sent from paul4281's iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

_If_ the TTOC owned this site there really wouldn't be any issues - this would quite clearly be the official forum of the TTOC and only members would access it, which wouldn't necessarily be a good thing. But as it happens, because of the way things have developed historically, it isn't owned by the TTOC and probably never will be as they won't be able to afford to buy it. However, it makes no sense for the TTOC to try and start their own forum because, as we've seen with other attempts, a rival forum is likely to fail. Why? Beacuse this one is so well supported, it could hardly be bettered.

So sensibly the TTOC have adopted this forum and work closely with it. Pretty much most of the regional business is organised through it and all TTOC business is predominantly promoted here. It's fair to say you'd know precious little about what's going on in the club if you were not here. Effectively this is the forum of the TTOC. However, it's open to non-members - and time and again (about every 6 months in my experience) a discussion on that exact issue raises its head. Why become a member when you can get most everything here anyway?

Well, you don't get _everything_. You don't get the magazine and while it's perfectly possible to turn up to regular regional meetings and go on the locally organised cruises without being a TTOC member there are still plenty of the larger national events that do require a membership to attend. EvenTT is an obvious example but also if you want to put your car on the TTOC stands at shows like Stanford Hall or Audis In The Park (which usually means free or reduced price entry) then obviously you have to be a club member. For me those are enough on their own to justify joining.

I don't have a problem that non-members can get involved in a limited amount of what goes on in the TTOC. That at least gets them in touch with the club and very often it's enough to encourage them to join. That's all good news for the health of the club. But likewise I don't see any issue with the TTOC promoting itself here. It's all about working together and give-and-take for the benefit of all. And frankly, when else would be better to let people know about the existence of the TTOC and let them know they are most welcome to join and get involved than when they first post one here saying hello and that they've just bought their TT?

If some people have felt it was rammed down their throats a bit then perhaps the invitation (because it is only an invitation) could be phrased differently, but I just wonder if people aren't being just a bit over-sensitive about it. All responders are saying is, "Welcome to the forum. There is a TT Owners Club and here is were you can get details on joining if you fancy it". In principle I see nothing wrong with that at all.


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## robokn (Feb 21, 2006)

But thats now how it is :-| :-|

BACK ON TRACK AS THIS HAS F'ALL TO DO WITH THE RUNNING OF THE TTOC :evil:

"Don't forget to join the TTOC" is normally how it is phrased.

I really don't give a hoot about the TTOC and meetings as I have been before and never really gained anything my personal view!

This was never about the TTOC and the way it's run for a profit not for a profit, web based, magazine online media again I don't give a hoot.

The post was asking for it not to be be rammed down peoples throats on their first post, nothing else

Perhaps I shouldn't have said anything :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## Phil_RS (Mar 2, 2010)

Kell said:


> Phil_RS said:
> 
> 
> > Shame that the TTOC couldnt take over the forum when it changed hands (although not saying it is run poorly or anything at present) but would have been great bring the forum under the TTOC? Was this considered?
> ...


Wow! OK, I can see why that's not going to happen!


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

robokn said:


> But thats now how it is :-| :-|
> 
> BACK ON TRACK AS THIS HAS F'ALL TO DO WITH THE RUNNING OF THE TTOC :evil:
> 
> ...


Rob i do agree that at times it is rammed down the throat on first post and as said by Mark......worded differently could be a better way to try and introduce new blood to the club. just my opinion for what it means :?


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

I think that this is a simple question to answer. I am as much at fault as anyone else to be honest, in the earlier days of me owning a TT - probably about 2003 onwards, I would quite often say those famous words to someone new to the forum "...and your first mod should be to join the TTOC" and at that time I would probably not had anything official to do with the TTOC. It was more of a standard strap line to say that you can also get a little more from joining the TTOC that just being a member of this forum.

There was nothing in it, it was just a bit of friendly advice that if I didn't mention it then someone else would and not necessarily someone from the TTOC Committee. I would agree that if it was the case that this was always said by someone from the TTOC Committee (and maybe it is these days, I don't know) then that would be a little over the top but I guess at the end of the day it is up to the first time poster to decide to join or not if the invitation is suggested.

I would compare it to something like if I joined the Jaguar forum (and this is only an example by the way) and someone suggested for me to join the Jaguars owners club then I would look into it and see if it was for me or not - if not then I wouldn't join - simples. I very much doubt that I would take offense that someone should suggest this - in fact I would have thought it was helpful.

However, times change and if this is causing offense to some people then perhaps it should be stopped, but I think it is a sad day when someone suggests something that could be beneficial is now stopped. Hey ho. 

Graham


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## robokn (Feb 21, 2006)

I think it it was better worded then perhaps there would be no offence taken, happy to have this locked now as I think it went off track, back on track, and I think the message may have got across


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## T3RBO (Dec 9, 2003)

Maybe I have missed recent events, threads and comments as not been on here for a few months due to personal issues (and not looked in the welcome section for ages), but as previous prime offender of welcoming new members for many years, that was before I was a committee member and a moderator, just a long standing TTOC member, I believe my 'welcome' was always polite, friendly, non pushy and I most certainly answered posted questions if I could.

Am I wrong, have things changed?



T3RBO said:


> Welcome to the forum
> 
> For events, discounts and other benefits including a fantastic quarterly magazine, have a look at joining
> the TT Owners Club.
> ...


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

welcome back Rob, missed you ya owld tosser xxx


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

T3RBO said:


> Maybe I have missed recent events, threads and comments as not been on here for a few months due to personal issues (and not looked in the welcome section for ages), but as previous prime offender of welcoming new members for many years, that was before I was a committee member and a moderator, just a long standing TTOC member, I believe my 'welcome' was always polite, friendly, non pushy and I most certainly answered posted questions if I could.
> 
> Am I wrong, have things changed?


Hi Robb and welcome back. I wondered what happened to you!

I think there was concern by some people that recent 'welcomes' could be perceived as 'selling opportunities' rather than the genuine greetings you had been giving. I don't think that accusation would be levelled at you.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Hi Rob


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

robokn said:


> "Don't forget to join the TTOC" is normally how it is phrased.
> 
> I really don't give a hoot about the TTOC and meetings as I have been before and never really gained anything my personal view!


But surely the posts aren't aimed at you, so once you know what it is, don't read it ;-)


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## robokn (Feb 21, 2006)

If it was only that easy clive :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

dont know what all the fuss is about :roll: :roll:


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## YoungOldUn (Apr 12, 2011)

Well Gaz once again you made me laugh, this time at your signature strip. Please don't join the PC crowd :lol:


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

YoungOldUn said:


> Well Gaz once again you made me laugh, this time at your signature strip. Please don't join the PC crowd :lol:


had too James it just sat staring at me and begging me to do it lol........hope all is well in house James?


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