# Clutch Change - Haynes Versus BWS TT



## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Okay so I decided to do a bit more of my clutch..

But I have a quandary...

The Haynes manual splits the transfer box from the gearbox, after draining gear oil.

BWS TT removes subframe and the steering rack from the subframe and removes the gearbox transfer box and fluids at the same time.

My concern is weight, undoing the deadly 4 steering rack bolts, replacing the sub frame bolts (again) versus new gear oil (I bought redline last time)

I think the gearbox and transfer box together are about 80kg ?

I know he's a YouTube star but he does point at a complete bodge on an Audi QS where he bypassed the PS cooling pipe... so I guess he must know better?


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## darylw357 (May 21, 2019)

In that video he uses a fancy transmission scissor jack, I don't think you could manipulate the gearbox by hand like in a Saxo or something.

The other cost to splitting the transfer box off is the super special Audi o-rings/gasket, I recall seeing the price here and it was disgusting for what they are.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

So essentially should I follow the Haynes method? I have no fear of undoing the subframe as lowered when fitting downpipe, but the issue will be the amount of people who snap steering rack bolts and the additional weight involved when manipulating the gearbox and transmission together.


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## hubcap61 (Feb 25, 2020)

I have one these trolley jack adapters, useful piece of kit.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402789560890 ... Sw-OVgdBTb
Makes life a bit easier.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Is this the gasket?


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

Why would you remove the transfer box if you don't need to, buy a gearbox jack or cradle thing and get stuck in, it's a dog of a job to do on the floor anyway but a lot easier with the correct tools.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

This was my point, the Haynes manual states splitting transfer box, bws did it by removing subframe and steering rack.

What way does Bentley suggest?

Changing using bws will cost 60 in bolts and 40 for the trolly jack cradle

Removing transfer will cost new gear oil and a couple of bolts, plus gasket.

This is why I asked the question


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## CaptRon (Mar 4, 2011)

I remember reading a post where someone had such a hard time re-installing this gearbox that he ended up splitting the transfer case and it went is as a breeze. That's why I elected to remove it when I removed mine, even tho I have a transmission jack, I prefer to spend a little more money than fighting with this heavy thing.

I wanted to change the oil anyway, that's the most expensive part.

The part numbers for the seals are:
N0282222
N90483701
02M409203
The first two were $2.00 USD and $7.00 USD but the third one was about $18.00 USD

The four bolts part number: N90990202 at $1.55 USD


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Thanks you're a star...

I'll do that...


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

I have to remove my decat pipe in any case for the MOT, and I wonder whether the transfer box needs to be entirely removed. Or just undone.. I'll have a look at ASN... BWS didn't look particularly happy and said its a 6 hour job (and he's pretty experienced), I wouldn't be surprised if 2.5 hours were trying to get the input shaft out and back in without damage.. also I won't be able to draw a trolly jack with cradle and gearbox out under the car, I would need to lower and drag it out... but somehow try and lift it back onto the cradle.

I just need to get the parts now, I put off buying them to first remove the clutch etc, but I just don't have the motivation without a commitment..

I am aiming for what appears to be a common upgrade

LUK dual mass, and the cover
Sachs Paddle Clutch and release bearing

This is nothing to do with any preference or research, just what I have seen other people use... I am not scared of trying a single mass flywheel, but just but sure if there is really a benefit apart from maybe price? People say it is lighter so quicker to accelerate, but surely it'll also impact engine braking too.. ?


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## CaptRon (Mar 4, 2011)

I'm sure you'll have to remove the transfer case because the shaft that goes into the gearbox will be in the way when you'll want to remove the gearbox. Don't forget to look at the Clutch Replacement in the Forum Knowledge base. Make sure you have all the tools, especially the ¼ drive 6mm hex socket with al long extension to remove the hidden bolt inside the transfer case and a 10mm multipoint socket (if your socket set is 6 sided) to disconnect the prop shaft.

I circled the three seals in this picture.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Thanks that's great, I have some long Allen sockets and long 10mm sockets used for the bumper removal and golf tdi actuator, including double square (or whatever) I expect the main challenge with it being removed and refitted is with the transfer box it's essentially an L shape.

I'll get this off at the weekend...


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Has anyone removed the nearside drive shaft flange to help with removal of the transmission? It keeps fouling on the power steering high pressure pipe? I could probably undo it from the chassis but that'll just give it a little more give..

If I was to remove the bolt, I assume I can just pull that out the gearbox? Or are there circlips and washers and seals etc?

Thanks


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## mk1chopper (Jan 14, 2021)

My drive shaft was fixed to the gearbox by 6 (or was it 8. ) allen bolts and it wasn't that hard to remove the drive shaft if that will give you more room, hub nut or bolt (2 types of drive shaft) should be replaced when refitted, Allen bolts can be reused.


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## silkman (Jul 29, 2004)

As our cars are 20 year old or more, any clutch job should include a rear main seal IMO :roll:

Even if its not leaking, it will soon. With the transmission out, the rear main seal adds maybe 5 minutes in labour and £20 in parts.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

mk1chopper said:


> My drive shaft was fixed to the gearbox by 6 (or was it 8. ) allen bolts and it wasn't that hard to remove the drive shaft if that will give you more room, hub nut or bolt (2 types of drive shaft) should be replaced when refitted, Allen bolts can be reused.


Both my driveshafts are already removed, I am talking about the flange held on by 1 allen bolt, I cannot move the engine forwards enough for the flange to not interfere with the power steering pipes bolted to the chassis.

This is what I am talking about removing.... just the flange, remember there's no mount on the transmission now to withdraw it.










Thanks... Silkman - I will look to change the main seal etc...


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## mk1chopper (Jan 14, 2021)

Apologies. didn't read your question properly. Have you read the guide in the knowledge base, that appears to suggest moving the power steering pipes out the way or disconnecting if your concerned about their condition. Fair play to you for taking this job on, from reading the guide its not a job I'd want to attempt.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

It's not that brave really, I need to do lots of other things at the same time which will be easier with the gearbox and transfer box out the way, like retro fit QS / V6 battery wiring to relocate the battery in the boot.. take the manifold off to port match it with my hybrid k04, remove the turbo to take the off the actuator and remove the 5psi spring so it is 10psi..

The Haynes manual does suggest on front wheel drive, you "might" remove one of them.. I'll try and move the PS pipes a bit more out of the way. The PS pipes are a bit ropey on this, it's another annoying thing about not keeping my S3 for parts as I had replaced the high pressure PS pipes on that.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Well I got the transmission off... not looking forward to re-fitting it.... but I have lots of other stuff to do, now I have good access.

I removed the high pressure PS pipe halfway through and manipulated the cooler pipe out the way. Then you sort of draw it back a few inches then sideways and let it sort of roll off. Onto the playmats / workshop floor tiles I had piled up.

Then I spent about 2 hours looking for a 12mm spine roll, tried Halfords and homebase then found one in my 'pile of tools' / toolbox 










I reckon it's about 65kg... I might just be really weak


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## darylw357 (May 21, 2019)

Clutch aint worn down to the rivets plenty of life left in it


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Yeah, I saw it didn't seem too worn. I am wondering why it was slipping so much. 35psi? It did start slipping when
the weather got cold...
but has never slipped before?

The dual mass flywheel is interesting, it is essentially a normal flywheel with about 10-15 degrees of elasticity. Impress that is why it was slipping, I should get it off tomorrow ask will see if that was causing the issues. Need to try and get some of the area cleaned a bit now, as so many nova to do.

1. Need to remove turbo to get the actuator off and manifold off to port match AET oversized hotside.
2. Remove 5psi spring from turbo smart actuator -leavibg 10psi spring. 
3. Make spacer for downpipe, from old ebay downpipe (probably need neec10mm studs

4. Fit new steering rack boot

5. Find solution for rear battery location (have v6 cables) have seat and carpet out the way

That's the starting point


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Well I am definitely past the point of no return  only thing left to remove is the Chinafold.

Gunk still works quite well... my biggest fear is something getting into the box.. I still only spend a few hours a week on it.

Just working my way through 'This Is Us'on prime, a tear Heeley for sure.

Decided for clutch solution - a popular performance solution

Luk dmf
Luk pressure plate / cover
Sachs 4 paddle / puck 
Sachs release bearing / slave cylinder.


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## darylw357 (May 21, 2019)

I find this degreaser works well and is cheap https://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense- ... 5ltr/88668

Are you going to modify the gearbox selector fork(s) ?


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Not changing the gearbox or anything internal, might change to short shifter?

I have ordered the turbo smart actuator collar tool, from previous research it should have a 10psi and a 5psi springs in.. I am surprised that that becomes 15 (even though I know how to add up ) does that mean 15 1psi springs is 15psi? It just feels like it should be more complicated than that...

I'm also floating over the replacement of the output shaft seal (I think so)..I fear it is fine now and the replacement will leak. I reckon I'll manage to get the manifold off with the extra space, as it was only fitted a couple of years ago. 
I'm going to cut up my old downpipe to make a spacer, to move the flexi from the prop-shaft.

What I'm unsure about is finding a decent hot side to manifold gasket. I know Bill was fitting these gasket-less by machining them. I tried (and failed) to make a gasket previously, but the bump was not on both sides so maybe it is essentially gasketless already?

Or is there some titanium paste or something?


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

I will be replacing my hotside to manifold gasket in a couple of weeks. The gasket that came with the downpipe is leaking (thick gasket material type).
I've ordered one of the thin steel type and plan to put a thin smear of exhaust sealant on it.
I'm looking at trying this stuff https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164694033086 ... Sw3qVgInio


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Yeah my problem is the hot side to manifold port is widened on the AET hybrid so is actually wider than the gasket, and after I have matched the Chinafold with the turbo the gasket will overhang them both by about 3mm all the way around. ( I will try and get a picture)

The silver foil covered cardboard gaskets never work, it's a shame they still supply them with ebay downpipes. It won't leak with a metal one. I don't think silicon exhaust paste that high up will do anything, in not sure what temperature it is usable for?

Firegum and similar will tolerate up to about 350°c, when the EGT will often exceed 900°c

I have seen this product, although it is classed as grout so I'm not sure if it will be gas tight.


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

The stuff in the link is 1200 degree c


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Sorry, I didn't see the ebay link.. that's certainly worth a shot. I did break a metal gasket on the manifold to turbo gasket, I think it had a little nick, from being too close to a bolt; which tore the metal.

There is also quite a few JB Weld 'liquid metal' type compounds.


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

I'm going to attempt to replace the manifold to turbo gasket as well as i think that's leaking slightly as well.
Is it best to attack these bolts when hot or cold?


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

I hate those e14 bolts and have never managed to remove all 3 on both attempts 2 out and the same closest to engine and pointing to drivers side just rounded, broke bergen tools.

But the advice is run the engine hot, whip off charge pipe thresh attack them. On the Chinafold I just use 3 17mm hex bolts.

Note some of those nasty bolts are e12. It might have just been my tools...


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

So changed the turbo smart actuator to 10psi earlier by removing the 5psi spring, if I ever get as far as re-running the fun. It should be much easier to control the boost giving me 80% PID range instead of 40-45% where 40% is anywhere between 32psi and off the limit and round the corner - based entirely on the time you were over 2800rpm.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Hoping to have removed the last part before cleaning, 
painting, modifying and refitting bits..

This is the bit I'm hoping will make the difference between the rated 380bhp ~300g/s and the max 260-265g/s I currently seem to hit a wall at... you can see the AET VT262-C hotside is widened quite a bit. So I'm going to have to grind this out to match it - biggest issue is decent gasket, which will fit it.

I'm not looking for more boost pressure that's no way the issue, I need to get rid of the air quicker.


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

You're going to have to flat that manifold joint face to have any hope of getting it to seal, looks a bit rough.


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

Have you considered making a gasket, exhaust gasket material is easy to find.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

> You're going to have to flat that manifold joint face to have any hope of getting it to seal, looks a bit rough


Do you mean if I want to run gasket-less? I have been running with this manifold and stock gasket with no leaks for years.. even with the widened hotside, so the gasket bump would not have been in contact with both turbo and manifold.

@delta4 I tried before but it was a nightmare, I was thinking about using a dremmel to cut two stock gaskets, and make a sandwich


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

Maybe it's flatter than it looks in the pic, and as you're worried about it sealing it wouldn't hurt


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

My problem with the sealing will be that after widening the collector diameter by 6mm the stock gasket will not have the bump anymore.

The collector face still has a light texture, and is imprinted with the gasket.. so I wonder if this actually helps with the sealing..

_I finished my previous message a little early_

I'm considering trimming a couple of metal gaskets to port match the 46mm diameter current hybrid hotside, and post collector port to match on the manifold. I'm not sure what to put into the sandwich, just a smear of the 1200°c compound you highlighted earlier maybe?

40-46mm is like 15% increase in diameter.
It sounds and looks like a lot more.

Current ~126.5mm2 versus enlarged ~144.5mm2 (~15%)

Current 330bhp (265g/s) versus predicted /AET rated) 380bhp (305g/s) is also about 15% different


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

Why two gaskets when you should only need one ? i can see that being problem waiting to happen.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

I was thinking about trying to seal it. I have some new Dremel cutting discs coming tomorrow so will try and make a custom gasket again.

My thought about 2 gaskets pressed together was to try and make a bump to help seal it..

Anyway decided on a sachs kit with DMF and 6 paddle clutch.. was trying to avoid 500 quid odd, then today logged in to buy it.. and they have 20% off.


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

So what do other's do in this situation regarding the gasket, have you considered using copper it's most probably easier to work with.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

I know Bill goes gasket less.

I have made a stock gasket 46mm but its wiped out 'the bump'

I was pointed to a exhaust silicon, which is good to 1200° I found a grout which is heat and pressure resistant too..

To go gasket-less I think the surfaces need to be perfectly smooth and machined flat. I think if I try a sealant it might be better 'keyed'.

I'm not sure of the copper melting point ~1085°C, my worry is - will it tear?


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

Online research suggests that it's a good idea.
While steel or other hard metals may appear more durable, copper is an ideal material for your custom-made exhaust gasket. Its unique properties allow it to create a tighter seal that conforms to any surface and reduce excess movement. It is durable to withstand high levels of wear and it resists corrosion.

I would use copper for the above reasons.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Yeah, I will look into that, I can keep my gasket as a template for whatever. Bought some 0.5mm copper sheet..


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

Just my opinion but copper might get too soft at turbo temps.
I tested that 1200deg c stuff the other day and it bonds well. A thin smear between 2 gaskets and none on the flange mating surfaces might be the best option. Just nipped and then torqued up 24 h later.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

I think true copper melting point is 1085 Deg.C but does that mean it is jelly at 800?


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

Using copper for exhaust gaskets has been done for decades, i was reading a article about CG's written by a company called stephens gaskets, based in the west midlands they do bespoke stuff as well it's got to worth a call to seek some advice at the very least.


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

StuartDB said:


> I think true copper melting point is 1085 Deg.C but does that mean it is jelly at 800?


It will get softer as the temp approaches it's melting point.
What would you expect for max EGT?


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

I have intervention at 920° but before I took it off the road, it was rarely over 850°.


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

At them temps IF copper softens it could lose the torque on the bolts. Copper may be ok for non turbo at lower temps.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

So fitted flywheel, paddle clutch and pressure plate.

Took off the release bearing and slave and I think I should change the seal.. I assume this is the one silkman meant?


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

It's worth doing whilst your at it.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

I'm in that place where I ordered one for a skoda visa a VW part and o2m, but am scared the Erling one was £20 from GSF but I got one for £7 from ebay. :/


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Can someone please help me a bit with part numbers for the transfer box.

I have the three seals numbers (thanks CAPTRON ) _one of those seems to be the same number as pick up pipe_..



> The part numbers for the seals are:
> N0282222
> N90483701
> 02M409203
> ...


But what about the long thin bolt down the centre of the drive shaft..?

Also, with all the moving about of propshaft, the seal / bush on the propshaft end looks a bit tatty. Any ideas? I will get a photo at the weekend.

I should be in a position to put the manifold and turbo back on at the weekend. That'll also allow fluids  it already sounds more that a couple of minutes


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## CaptRon (Mar 4, 2011)

I double checked with my bill from Audi and the numbers are correct. I know they fit because I installed them just a few weeks ago. It's not uncommon for Audi VW to cross-reference some parts.

As for the center bolt in the right drive shaft flange the maintenance manual doesn't recommend to replace it as it's only torqued to 25Nm., however it's recommended to replace the four bolts that secure the bevel box to the gearbox, Part Nbr. N90990202

The Bentley manual say that if the prop shaft seal is damage you may have to replace the whole shaft. Maybe someone has found an alternative. Is it's too badly damage I would try to put some kind of sealing grease before re-assembly.

I've also replace the main shaft seal... not easy to get out. I ended up drilling two small holes in it ( being careful not to damage the surrounding area ) screw in two wood screws and use a small puller.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Okay thanks, so the little long bolt, doesn't need changing, the "sort of" seal on the end of the prop shaft, could just be cleaned up with some red grease on reassembly. 
I did similar to change the seal, drilled a hole and pulled it out with a screw and pliers. And used the slave cylinder to press the new one in.
I am wondering whether I should fit the shim kit at the same time.


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## darylw357 (May 21, 2019)

Saw this today on the track prep facebook page, looks like a good solution for your manifold.








https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/ ... ire-rings/


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Edited- to remove a chat about Chinafolds.

So this is a sealing ring there is no way I would be able to position that right, getting the gasket in the right place is difficult enough, and I have blown out a metal gasket from the turbo. I think that would be smashed and hitting the firewall in 5 miles.. this is 35psi and a huge amount of back pressure.

If you tried to fit the manifold to the turbo on a bench (to get the sealing ring in position, you'll really struggle to get the manifold tightened to the head, as the coolant return will be in the way, and that can only be fitted before the turbo is fitted, as the bango cannot back out far enough (I found that out the hard way, after fitting a turbo with a bent crush washer)

Edit.. oh I see.. they are in a groove. Interesting.. but too late for me.


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## darylw357 (May 21, 2019)

StuartDB said:


> Edit.. oh I see.. they are in a groove. Interesting.. but too late for me.


What solution have you gone with ?


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Just a filed down metal gasket, and I will try 1200°C gasket sealant. I am a touch worried that it is quite thin.. I bought a replacement one and it is almost the right size. It has an overhang of about 1mm for about 15mm.

It didn't leak before when the gasket was the same size as stock, and the chinafold was stock K04 size. And Bill runs then gasket-less


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Ideas for a homemade grommet.. I have cut a hole in the passenger footwell for my battery cables to boot... it is about 1.8 inch by 1 inch, which is the widest point where the cables are bound together and protected for the outside world.

Obviously, I don't want the battery cables to get worn, or even worse shortout on the metal bodywork. I can use my Dremel to smooth and even out the edges, but really I want a rectangular grommet which also needs cutting to push wires through (to try and keep water resistant, or use sealant)

I was thinking about the door seal type of thing. Unless someone sells grommets, where I just need to make the hole fit.


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

Screen trim https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223869980329 ... Sw9fZeKW4h


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

Not cheap but the ideal size maybe https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/se ... ring-m-sgs


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Thanks the second item is ideal.. but quite expensive.. I can't help but feel they'll be an auto part which is only 5 quid like the generic one for 30 quid.

There's a drain grommet about 3 inches left to this v particular hole, which I started to remove to see.. but I think it is linked to a drain near the ECU....

Maybe someone has a firewall ekta diagram?

Is a 2 inch black rubber circle with two angled holes.. I'll get a couple of pics tomorrow


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

So this is behind the fire protection fabric, on the transmission side of the firewall down below the silver clutch hydraulic pipe, stop point / connector thing.

The rubber thing feels like it's connected to the scuttle, as a drip tray?

The rough drilled hole is through into the footwell and an example of the size needed to fit through the hard plastic protective trunking on the V6 battery cables.

Any thoughts?


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

Was it not possible to use a hole cutter ? it would be easier to find a blanking grommet that fits.


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## David C (Apr 15, 2013)

StuartDB said:


> So this is behind the fire protection fabric, on the transmission side of the firewall down below the silver clutch hydraulic pipe, stop point / connector thing.


Think that will be the A/C condensation drain.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Thanks DavidC that sounds reasonable.. I'll see if I can find one..

Delta, yeah - I thought about that after... the initial holes were just 'how thick is this, is it double layer and where is it going?'

I do have a set of hole cutters.. but I just don't have any oblong ones


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

after 40 minutes of trying to fit my turbo back on with the extra long downpipe studs (for a 1cm spacer), I gave up and have removed the studs and will instead first fit the turbo then screw them back in with some new lock-tight through the downpipe->gasket->spacer->gasket->hotside using the stud removal tool. it was always a bit awkward - but doable but yesterday I could only get the turbo into the right place if the downpipe was loosely fitted, but that didn't give the ability to twist it enough to get the oil feed pipe attached.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

How on earth are these only £11.99

After trying to use my existing hole cutter, it just scratched the footwell plate. Now I think 30mm is not quite big enough.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Slowly slowly catch the monkey


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Blimey, well... I started it for the 1st time in 13 months this afternoon. I think I need to get a wider gauge negative lead. But the important test is that it works okay using the V6 battery lead. It was certainly humming for quite a while, whilst the oil was recirculating and it took a while to get to stay running. Throttle body definitely needs calibration (it idles fine, revs perfectly well if increasing has reasonably, but starts to stall if accelerating quicker, I don't have the AEM controller connected at the moment, so that might - have some iffy default mode. But the 20 minutes today, at least mean I can refit - carpet, seat and glove box.

My annoyance is I don't have and clutch pedal pressure. I spent an hour or two a few weeks ago to get enough pressure to operate the clutch with my foot. I hope its not related to the removal of that reducer in the bleed piece. 

Since the clutch was the main reason, to take the car off the road last year - I will be a bit gutted if I have to take it all off again  


Here you can see stock against the negative lead I fitted. (Mines thinner)










I will try and upload the video later, as the forum doesn't allow videos.


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

👏 about time you pulled your finger out


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

I used a large syringe last week to pull the oil through when i fitted the new master cylinder. Got a good pedal straight away and then pumped it and pulled some more through, did this about 3 times and it was done.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Yeah I pumped the pedal about 100 times bleeding everytime I got some pressure. I didn't have these problems with the s3 even when the slave was leaking... I will check fluid levels (coolant, oil, ps) and get the other bits back in the car. 
I just joined the negative lead straight onto the spare wheel threaded bit in the middle of the boot space with a couple of rusty nuts. I was concerned with things like dash pod and doors being open when battery connected. But obviously had to have to boot open, but dashpod is fine.

Just so lazy whey it comes to anything which doesn't include TV or walking the dogs..  and I never walk with anyone else, or I might reluctantly for a bit, then change my route to be free.. 


The petrol is like 14 months old..

But now it has a battery connected I can at least reset the map to something with no boost and decent lambda ready for MOT. I have a new laptop and have only tested the programs on a bench setup.. but until I know everything is okay I cannot hand my old laptop down / across to my wife.


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## infid3l.uk (Feb 21, 2015)

gearbox and t box is not 80kg no way


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Hmmm what do you think it weighs ? 

Gearbox, transfer box and fluids ?


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

davebowk said:


> I used a large syringe last week to pull the oil through when i fitted the new master cylinder. Got a good pedal straight away and then pumped it and pulled some more through, did this about 3 times and it was done.


I'm going to try this through the bleeder nipple I do wonder whether pumping the pedal even after a gravity bleed, was just sucking from the least resistance and maybe half air and half fluid from the pipes instead of brake fluid reservoir.


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## infid3l.uk (Feb 21, 2015)

StuartDB said:


> Hmmm what do you think it weighs ?
> 
> Gearbox, transfer box and fluids ?


well we do gearboxes at work a lot and most of them i can lift up to move them with considerable ease, obv use a jack stand for actual fitting, btw i always remove the T box 1st


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Yeah I think it's 50kg transmission only, I assume that includes the bellhousing.
.crazy aged 18 I used to be able to carry around 50kg on a bar bell, but had to drag that transmission around in a tesco delivery crate aged 51 
.I expect the transfer box is another 15kg

So ~68kg { transmission, transfer, fluid), rather than 80kg my mistake. Still damn heavy to manipulate laying in the floor 









I Was Able to Weigh these 020 o2o 02A o2a 02M o2m...


I know this topic comes up every so often and I happened to have the three transmissions sitting in the garage while I was bored. Using my cheapy bathroom scale that I use to get rough estimates of shipping large parts this is what I came up with: 020=68lb 02A=85lb 02M=112lb




www.vwvortex.com


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Used a syringe and a long boost tube, to draw it through. Clutch is unnervingly light.... but has held itself so far. I know its not slipping as I cannot go forwards or backwards yet   rear brakes are seized on.. they'll be fine..

Got an annoying blow from either -

1. Manifold - head (doubt it)
2. Manifold- turbo (maybe as i made the gasket
3. turbo - downpipe (probably as it has a 10mm flange and 2 gaskets)

It's running and starting a bit rough at the moment, I'll sort that out first. Maybe fuel as is 14 months old. 

Will do a throttle body calibration, did it yesterday - when testing software was working on new laptop. But engine was still warm.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

So I have been casually diagnosed by my GP with 'pseudo dementia' it means you forget stuff through stress and / or depression..

But Monday night I was considering the most efficient way for me to identify the exhaust leak and resolve it (eg why use ramps if i will need to remove drivers wheel etc) depending on where its coming from ref 1-3 above (previous post).. then I remembered something I might have forgotten to remember to do. 

Just got back walking the dogs before bedtime, and remembered I wanted to calibrate the throttle body.. I thought the car needed to be cold and untouched but the VCP tool / rosstech says the engine needs to be between 5°c and 95°c so I started the car and went to check the thing I forgot to remember to do...

A bit embarrassing but, accidents happen  (it's slap bang in the middle of the photo, obviously wasn't before, i hid it out of damaging reach doing the )


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

They don't work in that position lol


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Okay so went for a light cruise around the block, the clutch is so ridiculously light and biting point so high and rough / juddering, and it slips with the same juddering when accelerating up past about 2500rpm - it's the sort of juddering you get with a misfire (eg physical) I know these paddle clutches are supposed to be bed in, but that cannot be this, it's undriveable - I am sure the clutch plate is round the right way and I definitely fit the DMF and clutch cover correctly. I'm putting the car on axle stands tomorrow after backing up onto ramps at the rear, to get an idea on the start-up blow. But I reckon this is going to have to come back off again  

Any ideas, I did remove the little restrictor from the slave cylinder bleed valve but I cannot believe its that...

I'm going to contact the seller..

This is the kit I got...



https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SACHS-DUAL-MASS-FLYWHEEL-AND-PADDLE-CLUTCH-KIT-FOR-AUDI-HATCHBACK-S3-8L1-/26425168947




And got a necessary Lidl special


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Oh this sounds normal?









Sachs clutch to bed in or not to bed in that's the question?


Hi Just got my s3 clutch done (ouch) what I want to know is does it need bedding in? i asked the specialist who is jabbasport and the said it doesn't need bedding at all if anything a slight thrashing to bed in. i have read many threads on here that state it needs keeping off turbo and being...




www.audi-sport.net





Quite a few comments about needs bedding in, and will judder for a while..


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

Stick some miles on it with plenty of gear changes it should settle down, you don't want take that box back off only to find that nothing is wrong.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Yeah thanks, I think I will do that. Some people on that ASN thread, said they were still getting juddering after hundreds of miles. I have literally only driven about a mile. I can reverse up ramps without it slipping 

Rather annoyingly I still have the ABS cutting in if a slow light braking into corners, I changed the ABS sensor on that side, so I wonder if the hub ABS ring is the issue.. There had not been any errors stored, about the sensor I just assumed, it's readings were inaccurate.


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

It maybe the sensor itself or the wires for it.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Yeah, I changed the wheel speed sensor on that side. I will give it another scan. Once it's on axle stands I will try running it in gear. Might be worth doing that to try and get the clutch bedded in leaving it running for 20 minutes or similar.


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

The only way to bed in the clutch is on the road or dyno, use the gears to slow down it'll speed up the process.


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## gedu (Sep 2, 2021)

bedding clutch in is like bedding brake pads in... it needs reasonable load to bed in.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Well I know why my manifold is blowing..

The picture is upside down, it's the top of the downpipe hitting the bottom of the chinafold manifold, because I fit the 10mm flange / spacer. I started blindly smearing silicon to look for where it might be blowing..

The chinafold has a cut out for the downpipe, but the flange pushes it past that.


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

You've got a bit of work to do then, well a lot of work is it a manifold off job ?


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

I'll try and grind a bit off the downpipe first, and maybe a bit on the underside of the underside of the manifold, it's only a couple of mm.. I should get enough room undoing and manipulating the downpipe.


You can see there's gaps everywhere because of this.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

So I sorted out the downpipe fouling on the chinafold after the addition of the 10mm flange which comfortably moves the downpipe clear of the propshaft.. its much easier than trying to adjust engine mounts, engine angles etc. 

Just ground a few mm off the top triangle, I still get a slight turbo -> manifold blow on start up which disappears when warm, it's always done that. 
























I have some time tomorrow, so I might mount my battery properly and then see if the clutch is just trying to bed in, or is faulty / incorrectly fitted. I still have my light braking and turning issue, which is annoying as I hoped replacing the wheel speed sensor would fix it, but I think it's corrosion on the hub ring / cage..

I might get replacement hubs and bearings.. :/


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

So I am going to try and loosen the bell housing by a couple of mm, if something is the wrong size it might be highlighted by the biting point going half way down the travel and actually have some restriction on the pedal. Obviously I cannot try and drive it like that


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

I'm a bit lost/forgotten what the clutch issues is ? have you tried bleeding the clutch again ( may have asked that before ) and is the biting point low down ( near the floor )


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

No... biting point is at the very top of the travel, and it slips really easily, I cannot go over 2400 rpm, there is zero feedback from the pedal, it is the lightest clutch i have ever felt. 
It goes into gear really easily, no notching.

I did remove the restrictor from the t-piece bleed nipple, that's maybe why the pedal is so light. I can bleed it again, but the pedal has remained the same, since bleeding it the first time; usually if the clutch needs bleeding they'll be slack at the top.


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## Charmadize (Jul 14, 2019)

On the clutch, have you replaced the plate recently Stuart? I’m going to guess that the release bearing isn’t seated properly. Either that, or you could have the wrong friction plate?

I wouldn’t think it is anything to do with how you have bled it, that would just make it spongy and it would grind and problematic when changing gears.


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

I think your going to have remove the box to sort this issue out.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Charmadize said:


> On the clutch, have you replaced the plate recently Stuart? I’m going to guess that the release bearing isn’t seated properly. Either that, or you could have the wrong friction plate?
> 
> I wouldn’t think it is anything to do with how you have bled it, that would just make it spongy and it would grind and problematic when changing gears.


It's this clutch, the slave cylinder and release bearing are one unit in 02M gearboxes. And it's bolted in position so it cannot be that...











I want to have a look whilst it's together to see if the slave is already pressed against the spring tines, there is no sensation in the pedal travel, you know when you press the clutch and there's a section of resistance in the travel, usually halfway down the travel. Its as if that has already happened.

I wonder if there's an observation hole I can put a little camera into.


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## Charmadize (Jul 14, 2019)

Yeah, it does seem like the release bearing is pressing against the release plate already. Can you hear it whirring when the engine is running? You might need to hold your ear to a block of wood to the bellhousing. Might not work.

I think there is an inspection hole on the top near the gear linkages, but I’d need someone else here to confirm it. You might only have access to the flywheel and timing marks rather than the release bearing.


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## Charmadize (Jul 14, 2019)

Just another thought…. You don’t think that maybe your master cylinder piston might be jammed in? So the peddle only moves it right at the end.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

The pedal only works if there's pressure in the circuit, anything iffy makes the pedal drop to the floor, even though it's so crazy light it has always (since bleeding the clutch) held the position and same (lack of) tension.

When you say 'right at the end' ? It is right at the top.... EG with the engine in neutral, I can set the rpm at 2000 rpm, press the clutch maybe 1 inch down from top.. so way above the brake pedal.. put into gear and not start moving until I lift the pedal back up that inch.

I will take a look for the observation hole, I think I recall seeing one when I was cleaning it... thanks


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

I think that needs to come off again.
Are you sure that paddle clutch plate isn't offset slightly? Would only need a few mm to cause this.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

So most likely the clutch plate is around the wrong way?


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

It could be a possibility, you could ask the supplier to check one.


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

I gather that stuart mean's he has fitted it the wrong way around, regardless the end result is the same something is stopping the friction plate from being clamped properly and there is only one way to sort that out.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

My issue is, if there's something I can do to test / check movement whilst it's together.. I don't want to just flip it round put it back together and discover it is the same and instead one of the parts and take it apart again. 

Obviously, I won't need to put it entirely back together after changing it. And it's the biting point at the top of the pedal that concerns me, as that means that pressure plate is partially actuated - how does that relate to the paddle clutch. 

This is a long read...









NEW Sachs clutch is slipping!


Hi All This is really worrying. S3Alex has been very helpful but is also flummoxed by this. Any ideas gratefully recieved. Car: '06 A3 170 TDi remapped to 205 BHP and about 320 torques. It's done 86K. Original (I beleive) clutch started to slip when I gave it welly in gears 4-6. It got more...




www.audi-sport.net


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

Extreme but some bloke on a ford forum with a similar issue drilled a hole in the bell housing big enough to put a camera in to see if thrust bearing was engaged when it should not be, kinda pointless to me as it won't fix the issue, get the box off if the clutch plate is back to front then that's all it can be if not it leaves the pressure plate which i can't see, thrust bearing not backing off completely ? i did read the asn thread interesting and confirms that you can only sort this by removing the box and possibly ditching the paddle clutch and pressure plate.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Okay, so sitting on my driveway choosing 1st or reverse with handbrake fully up the car still reverses and goes forward without slipping?

Even in second the engine slows down and still tries to puli the car without slipping at all? 

This is crazy....


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Delta4 said:


> Extreme but some bloke on a ford forum with a similar issue drilled a hole in the bell housing big enough to put a camera in to see if thrust bearing was engaged when it should not be, kinda pointless to me as it won't fix the issue, get the box off if the clutch plate is back to front then that's all it can be if not it leaves the pressure plate which i can't see, thrust bearing not backing off completely ? i did read the asn thread interesting and confirms that you can only sort this by removing the box and possibly ditching the paddle clutch and pressure plate.


I was considering this...


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

New regulator sorted out the charging issue.

12.45 engine off 14.55 engine on..


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

StuartDB said:


> New regulator sorted out the charging issue.
> 
> 12.45 engine off 14.55 engine on..


That's one job that can be ticked off the list


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

If you get the paddle clutch plate off you can check it with a straight edge to see if there is an offset. Mark it first so if there is you won't put it back the same way.


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## Charmadize (Jul 14, 2019)

Sorry Stuart, you are right, it is not the master cylinder as that would give the opposite symptoms, catching at the bottom of the travel.

So, I know you don’t want to, but I think you have to take it apart again. Either the release bearing is not seated correctly or it could be the friction plate is round the wrong way. As it is new, it would grip enough to work, but the release bearing will probably be spinning all the time and will break down quite quickly.

It obviously isn’t right, but like you, I can’t think what else it would be.


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