# Sharia Law in the UK?



## Silver Shadow (Aug 29, 2005)

*Should our Muslim Communities be allowed to practice Sharia Law in the UK?*​
Yes. It is an essential part of their beliefs.34.29%No. They should be dealt with under British Legistlation.6795.71%


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## Silver Shadow (Aug 29, 2005)

An ICM opinion poll indictes 4 out of 10 British Muslims want Sharia Law introduced into parts of the country, a survey reveals today.

The most startling finding is the high level of support for applying Sharia Law in "predominantly Muslim" areas of Britain.

Sharia law is "the path that must be followed by a Muslim.

In the West, it is most famous for its penal code: the prescribed punishments for sexual offences, which include stoning; for theft, which include amputation; and for apostasy, for which the punishment is death.


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## zedman (Jan 31, 2005)

i'd like to know where they did this survey, the Quran says that a muslim should follow the laws of the land in which they reside and if they cannot do that then to find somewhere where they can, so i got no idea why so many muslims would support this, thats a crazy statistic.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Religion is crazy - so how can sense be made from something that is fundamentally bonkers?


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Any one within the UK should be subject to UK law. What ever this 'law' is has no place here.

Iâ€™m sure Iâ€™m going to get grief for this so flame suit on. If you live here you should follow our rules. If you have a job that requires a uniform you should have to wear it regardless of whatever religion you follow - if you donâ€™t like it tough, donâ€™t take the job in the first place. If you attend a UK school you should take part in Christian religious education as set down by law.

Its only integration if you integrate to OUR culture.

Iâ€™m not a religious person, but I wouldnâ€™t take beer of porn mags to a Muslim country, ie id respect their rules - other people should do the same with our rules else Iâ€™ll be on a plane with a six pack, a couple of copies of playboy and a box of tissues for clean up - see how you like it.


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

You should live by the laws and customes of the country you are living in and if you cannot then find some where you can to live


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

You should live by the law and respect their customs - not live by the customs.


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

saint said:


> You should live by the law and respect their customs - not live by the customs.


Thats what i ment to say


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## NIIK_TT (May 7, 2002)

What a stupid question!


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## The Silver Surfer (May 14, 2002)

You forgot to include the third option.


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2006)

The Silver Surfer said:


> You forgot to include the third option.


which is send them all back to where they came from if they have a problem with our UK laws :lol:

anyway, i saw this on the front of the Guardian (i think) about 2 weeks ago. I get so angry with these things, i have to keep quiet :?

most of them can't even speak English, cant work, ruin our inner cities, contribute zilch to the economy, claim benefits, and the extreme ones let off bombs in London.....


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

AndyRoo_TT said:


> The Silver Surfer said:
> 
> 
> > You forgot to include the third option.
> ...


Yes i can imagine people like the Spanish and French think the same way as us when it comes to our ex-pats living over their...They do the same thing all move to the same area open up English pubs/cafes etc. Dont bother to learn the lingo and act as though they still live in Peckham :roll:


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2006)

genocidalduck said:


> Yes i can imagine people like the Spanish and French think the same way as us when it comes to our ex-pats living over their...They do the same thing all move to the same area open up English pubs/cafes etc. Dont bother to learn the lingo and act as though they still live in Peckham :roll:


at least they have a job! plus they only think they're still in Peckam cuz the only customers they have are people on holiday from Peckam

who goes on holiday to visit a British pub?!!? i mean - whats the point?! :lol:


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

AndyRoo_TT said:


> genocidalduck said:
> 
> 
> > Yes i can imagine people like the Spanish and French think the same way as us when it comes to our ex-pats living over their...They do the same thing all move to the same area open up English pubs/cafes etc. Dont bother to learn the lingo and act as though they still live in Peckham :roll:
> ...


I think you will find most Muslims over here work. People from India, Pakistan etc are some of the most hard working people in this country. And alot of time put us natives to shame.


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## DGW131 (Feb 20, 2005)

Any one within the UK should be subject to UK law. it is as simple as that


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## The Silver Surfer (May 14, 2002)

AndyRoo_TT said:


> The Silver Surfer said:
> 
> 
> > You forgot to include the third option.
> ...


NO!!!

That's is certainly NOT what I had in mind!!

If someone is not happy to abide by the laws in the country they have chosen to live in, then they are free to move to a country where they can practice Sharia Law, or whatever other law they wish to practice. End of!!


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2006)

genocidalduck said:


> I think you will find most Muslims over here work. People from India, Pakistan etc are some of the most hard working people in this country. And alot of time put us natives to shame.


2 word that sound like: dull - mit

just because stacking shelves in Asda is 'hard work', or sweeping the road, does that mean that my job is harder because im sat at a desk?? i think not


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

AndyRoo_TT said:


> genocidalduck said:
> 
> 
> > I think you will find most Muslims over here work. People from India, Pakistan etc are some of the most hard working people in this country. And alot of time put us natives to shame.
> ...


I'm talking about hours they put in...That is also a pathetic stereotype. I can think of many Muslims in very important jobs...Ie Think how many Muslim Doctors we have in this country. Also believe it or not shelf stackers are just as important. Alot of people that ocme over with no trained skills will do the jobs that the rest of us do not like doing because we are snobby and believe it is beneath us. Where do you think we would be without these immagrants that do the jobs we hate.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

AndyRoo_TT said:


> genocidalduck said:
> 
> 
> > I think you will find most Muslims over here work. People from India, Pakistan etc are some of the most hard working people in this country. And alot of time put us natives to shame.
> ...


Maybe he means running a corner shop... :roll:


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2006)

genocidalduck said:


> Also believe it or not shelf stackers are just as important. Alot of people that ocme over with no trained skills will do the jobs that the rest of us do not like doing because we are snobby and believe it is beneath us.


and you're missing the most important point: the money is cr*p so none of us 'right minded' people will do it (well after leaving school anyway!!)

so yes, i am 'above' a shelf-stacker on Â£5/hour believe it or not. Does it need an argument? Does it mean im snobby? - NO

/rant


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

AndyRoo_TT said:


> genocidalduck said:
> 
> 
> > Also believe it or not shelf stackers are just as important. Alot of people that ocme over with no trained skills will do the jobs that the rest of us do not like doing because we are snobby and believe it is beneath us.
> ...


Hence why i said they are just as important.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Hey, they can practice whatever stupid law (or should it be lore? :wink: ) they wish - as long as they are prepared to face the full consequences and weight of the law for any transgressions of their host nation's legislation ie The Law of The Land.

Something makes me think that 'the Survey' sample might not be fully representative - they probably just asked 10 people sympathetic to their cause, and ignored the wider population of law-abiding peace-loving Muslims. :roll:

"But you gotta have faith..."


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## zedman (Jan 31, 2005)

AndyRoo_TT said:


> most of them can't even speak English, cant work, ruin our inner cities, contribute zilch to the economy, claim benefits, and the extreme ones let off bombs in London.....


well i'm one of them so why dont u come and meet me, see what I do for a living and maybe you can expand your narrow mind, and i suppose you've actually met most of us to make that comment?

as for being shelf stackers as long as someones working and not scrounging then why do you have to laugh at them for it? i've met people who are pretty thick that know


AndyRoo_TT said:


> most of them can't even speak English, cant work, ruin our inner cities, contribute zilch to the economy, claim benefits, and the extreme ones let off bombs in London.....


 is a load of bullshit so how thick must you be to actually think ur right?


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

zedman said:


> AndyRoo_TT said:
> 
> 
> > most of them can't even speak English, cant work, ruin our inner cities, contribute zilch to the economy, claim benefits, and the extreme ones let off bombs in London.....
> ...


Maybe he's based that assumption on your grammar.


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## sonicmonkey (Mar 20, 2004)

AndyRoo_TT said:


> genocidalduck said:
> 
> 
> > I think you will find most Muslims over here work. People from India, Pakistan etc are some of the most hard working people in this country. And alot of time put us natives to shame.
> ...


What a [email protected] :lol: I could compare education/career paths/salary with you to prove we don't all stack shelves and scrounge but you'd have to be a Class A [email protected] if you really believed that is all "us lot" do, as I don't know you I'll give you the benefit of the doubt .


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## zedman (Jan 31, 2005)

ronin said:


> zedman said:
> 
> 
> > AndyRoo_TT said:
> ...


happy now?


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## Silver Shadow (Aug 29, 2005)

NIIK_TT said:


> What a stupid question!


Why? :?:

Stupid because the answer is obvious and doesnt require a debate?

(Or were you just being rude! :roll: )


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## chip (Dec 24, 2002)

well, I just cast my "No" vote and the latest poll result shows 48-1,......


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## Ria_saini (Jan 6, 2006)

firstly i think this thread should be closed, as it is a very thin line between expressing your views and being racist.

secondly, yes possibly the majority of people who first came to the country may have swept floors, been taxi drivers etc... but lets be fair most of them have worked hard to bring themselves to a certain standard. and i do respect them regardless of what jobs they do. i do believe they should stick to UK law if they reside in the UK, but saying that they should be sent back is rude. 
my family have worked hard to get were they are and now all my siblings as in my brother and my sister are all qualified solictors and in time to come i will be too. so if you do hvae rude opinions about othr races i think you should keep them to yourself. because im sure some asian maybe muslim people could say mean things about some other people. no races mentioned!!


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Ria_saini said:


> firstly i think this thread should be closed, as it is a very thin line between expressing your views and being racist.
> 
> secondly, yes possibly the majority of people who first came to the country may have swept floors, been taxi drivers etc... but lets be fair most of them have worked hard to bring themselves to a certain standard. and i do respect them regardless of what jobs they do. i do believe they should stick to UK law if they reside in the UK, but saying that they should be sent back is rude.
> my family have worked hard to get were they are and now all my siblings as in my brother and my sister are all qualified solictors and in time to come i will be too. so if you do hvae rude opinions about othr races i think you should keep them to yourself. because im sure some asian maybe muslim people could say mean things about some other people. no races mentioned!!


Firstly, this thread shouldn't be closed. Racism isn't rife on this forum, but it does seem that, at times, a majority of us ARE anti-PC. Simply suggesting this thread be closed is one thing, but once again, having dismissed the right for someone else to have an opinion, you go ahead and state your own.

Congratulations on the acheivements of your family.

It doesn't change the fact that there has been intense immigration into this country, often by people with very different (and opposite) beliefs to the incumbent citizens, which has lead to a great deal of trouble. This isn't a recent thing by any means - the UK has been "settled" countless times during its history, and most so-called "natives" are a real hotch-potch of nationalities, but that's a completely different matter.

The point is, though, that just because you and your family (and others on here - it is, afterall, the forum for a relatively expensive car) have settled in, and adopted a neutral or positive outlook, it certainly isn't a fair assumption to suggest that every other immigrant (1st generation, or even descendents) has done so - in fact the portions of the media would often have us believe that "good" settlers like you and your family are actually the minority.

The picture being painted, and the facts self-evident from visiting various parts of the UK is that immigrants of ALL nationalities are often reluctant (or simply unable) to blend in and adopt the local laws, and respect the national customs. Surveys such as the one THIS PARTICULAR thread is about just hammers this view home...

It is undeniably racist to adopt a view which assumes that every black, asian, white etc will behave according to a stereotype. It is NOT racist to discuss the facts and hold a view which isn't necessarily overly politically correct.

This country is a melting pot, but (by and large) I believe that everyone should speak English as their first language, be taught in English at their schools, and be free to celebrate Christian religious festivals without fearing they will upset their Islamic, Hindi, Sikh etc "neighbours" (Birmingham City Council has a lot to answer for!).

It isn't racist to be utterly shocked to learn that English isn't the primary language in many inner city schools. It isn't racist to be deeply troubled by the fact that white teachers are being forced out of some schools because they aren't considered appropriate. It isn't racist to laugh at the totally stupid PC-brigade who insist on renaming things like "Blackboards" or stopping people singing "Baa Baa Black Sheep"...

Nor is it racist to suggest that, if people don't wish to belong to this society, that they should get out (or be sent out) to somewhere where they CAN "belong", and not to simply allow them to change the culture of the country to meet their own.

I've said it before on this very forum. We (Brits) actively laugh and deride the usual "Brits Abroad" stereotype - the thicko, "new-money" brigade who have decamped to the Costa del Sol, and have made parts of it a typically British environment. The type who won't learn the local language, and who just talk louder and slower to be understood. They're in the wrong, and are making no effort to "fit in".

So to suggest that immigrants to the UK should ALSO "fit in" is certainly not racist. It equally applies to emmigrants...

As someone has pointed out, and as I've said on this forum before, if I go to a foregin country on holiday, I try to obey the local customs. I try to respect what I see, and the rules on dress, alcohol etc. Actually living in a foreign country should be an extension of this.

Racist? Nah. British, and (usually) proud.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

I went looking for my words from a couple of years ago...

Not difficult to find "racism" debates on here, if you are familar with the Search function. :lol:

http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... m&start=10

As I remembered:



> I was having a little think about "emmigration" the other day... and wondering how I'd feel if I moved to another country. Actually, I sort of already have. I'm an Englishman living in Wales...
> 
> But seriously... the usual stereotype of Brits living abroad is often those who emmigrate to places like Spain. They create their own "little Britain" with British pubs, British grub and make little or no effort to blend in with the "locals". My point is, these people are often looked on with some degree of "ridicule", yet anyone who chooses to do the same in Britain is somehow revered. This double-standard is somewhat amusing...
> 
> I can't actually decide whether, if I chose to emmigrate, I would choose to fit in and BE a citizen of XYZ (and hence choose somewhere based on its culture being similar to the one I wish to follow myself) - or whether I'd still want to be a "Brit Abroad" with my ketchup, my ham, eggs and chips and my copy of The Sun tucked into my jeans.. I guess if I chose the former, I'd expect the citizens to meet me part way and applaud my efforts to integrate myself in their culture. If I chose the latter, I don't think I could expect (and certainly wouldn't get) any respect. Do you think I could expect to change the education system? Do you think I could have them pass separate laws that allowed me to do XYZ or allowed me NOT to do XYZ simply because I don't follow their religion? Do you think I could force the government to pay for state education for my children in the language and culture of MY choosing? No - I don't think many other cultures would stand for that, to be honest.....


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Nice reply Tim and I think I agree with all the points you made.

We have gone PC mad and I for one think enough is enough. This country is not racist and I donâ€™t think we have issues with discrimination towards any minority group â€" if anything; itâ€™s the reverse thatâ€™s true where you get active recruitment of minorities which in itself is descrimertive as the best person for the post should get the job. Not the person whose colour or religious persuasion fits the PC tick box to meet some PC correct %.

Christmas is a tradition celebrated by these islands for hundreds of years Iâ€™m now told we can no longer call it Christmas as we may offend one religious group or another. If you stop Christmas we should also stop the celebration of all the other religious festivals for the non Christians groups like Muslims and Jews etc. However I donâ€™t want it or any other festival stop I want to be able to continue to celebrate my traditions

I also donâ€™t see why immigration is necessary any longer and we have no need to continue to allow immigrants of all colours, creeds and religions enter these islands. We currently have a massive amount of unemployment in this country and we have a duty to retrain/educate those people to meet the requirements of its employers before we allow economic migrates into the country and continue to allow these people to live of the state.

Weâ€™ve banned Christmas, jokes that refer to race, colour nationality, satirical cartoon are also banned for fear of upsetting one group or another what next?


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Toshiba said:


> Nice reply Tim and I think I agree with all the points you made.
> 
> We have gone PC mad and I for one think enough is enough. This country is not racist and I donâ€™t think we have issues with discrimination towards any minority group â€" if anything; itâ€™s the reverse thatâ€™s true where you get active recruitment of minorities which in itself is descrimertive as the best person for the post should get the job. Not the person whose colour or religious persuasion fits the PC tick box to meet some PC correct %.
> 
> ...


At least I read earlier today that a certain Police force's "positive discrimination policy" has been deemed "inappropriate" because its actually illegal.

To swell the numbers of "minorities" (women, as well as different racial or religious groups) they turned down the applications for many perfectly well qualified white men.

They're now having to re examine these previously "binned" applications, the applicants having been ignored on purely racial / sexual or religious grounds...

I think we've won Christmas back, over the last couple of years, and I'm certainly not against such things as Ramadan, Passover etc. I'm not really anti-religion either, despite not believing in anything in particular.

What I can't abide is people jumping on the "racism" or "PC" bandwagon when there is no justification, particularly by proxy. When cultures and religious are SO diverse, there are bound to be areas of disagreement and downright conflict - but claiming to be oppressed or victimised is just plain wrong.

You should go and see Avenue Q:

http://www.soundtracklyrics.net/song-ly ... racist.htm


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## scott28tt (Jul 30, 2002)

jampott said:


> This country is a melting pot, but (by and large) I believe that everyone should speak English as their first language, be taught in English at their schools, and be free to celebrate Christian religious festivals without fearing they will upset their Islamic, Hindi, Sikh etc "neighbours" (Birmingham City Council has a lot to answer for!).
> 
> It isn't racist to be utterly shocked to learn that English isn't the primary language in many inner city schools. It isn't racist to be deeply troubled by the fact that white teachers are being forced out of some schools because they aren't considered appropriate. It isn't racist to laugh at the totally stupid PC-brigade who insist on renaming things like "Blackboards" or stopping people singing "Baa Baa Black Sheep"...
> 
> Nor is it racist to suggest that, if people don't wish to belong to this society, that they should get out (or be sent out) to somewhere where they CAN "belong", and not to simply allow them to change the culture of the country to meet their own.


Here here, well said that man.


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## John C (Jul 5, 2002)

AndyRoo_TT said:


> The Silver Surfer said:
> 
> 
> > You forgot to include the third option.
> ...


don't tell me..... I bet 'they' don't even have blonde hair and blue eyes?

How can we create a master race in these conditions?

I know, let's start by invading Poland and see where it goes from there.

:roll: sheesh


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Looks like I am the only 'Yes' voter then, whilst everyone else jerks each other off about how tolerant they are, how we all hate PC, how all jobs of work are valid contributions, blah, blah, blah...

Tell us something new please.

..........._that should get 'em going_


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

where did that come from?


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## zedman (Jan 31, 2005)

how can anyone say that this......

''most of them can't even speak English, cant work, ruin our inner cities, contribute zilch to the economy, claim benefits, and the extreme ones let off bombs in London.....'' is not racist?

When people justify these opinions by going on about how so called 'positive racism' is terrible it makes me wonder why they don't tackle their local MP about it, or go lobby the govt or council or something? Why take it out on the minority? Why not think even for a second that alot of minorities might actually agree and don't like being patronised when they apply for a job.

Personally I think the whole PC thing went way too far years ago but that does not mean that its the ethnic minority's that have created it, or that every time someone posts a narrow minded comment like the one above that everyone should jump to their defence saying the world is too PC now. It might well be but comments like the above have no justification, at all. If they do then lets see some statistics.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Not agreeing or disagree with the comments he made as they are unqualified i.e. no reason/s has/have been given as to why he thinks this.

I think it is true that a % of the population can not speak English (including people from Newcastle ) - no idea what it is.
Iâ€™ve no idea what 'they' whoever they are, are contribute as i donâ€™t know who 'they' are to start with.
Iâ€™m sure 'they' do claim benefits whoever they are.

They have left off bombs in London - they been terrorist from both NI and religious idiots.


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

Ria_saini said:


> firstly i think this thread should be closed, as it is a very thin line between expressing your views and being racist.
> 
> secondly, yes possibly the majority of people who first came to the country may have swept floors, been taxi drivers etc... !!


Whats bloody wrong with cabbies :x Apart from we talk crap and time our crap conversations on the time it takes to get a passenger from A to B we are fecking great


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2006)

very good points jampott, toshiba

I may have sounded racist, but it wasnt intentional: it was my view from what I see with my own eyes, not what I hear from the media, and to have someone come here into _*my*_ country and tell _*me*_ I cant express this view is disgusting. full stop...


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

AndyRoo_TT said:


> very good points jampott, toshiba
> 
> I may have sounded racist, but it wasnt intentional: it was my view from what I see with my own eyes, not what I hear from the media, and to have someone come here into _*my*_ country and tell _*me*_ I cant express this view is disgusting. full stop...


I would change the word "most" to "many", however... (in your original comment). The latter is a statement of fact, the former does have undertones...


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

im not sure they are racist comments

racism
â€¢ noun 1 the belief that there are characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to each race. 2 discrimination against or antagonism towards other races. 
â€" DERIVATIVES racist noun & adjective.

you didnt discrimination as you said THEM ALL :lol:


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## L7 (Aug 27, 2004)

jampott said:


> Firstly, this thread shouldn't be closed. Racism isn't rife on this forum, but it does seem that, at times, a majority of us ARE anti-PC. Simply suggesting this thread be closed is one thing, but once again, having dismissed the right for someone else to have an opinion, you go ahead and state your own.
> 
> Congratulations on the acheivements of your family.
> 
> ...


Spot on, well said.

Andykangaroo I take it your pretty young then yeah ?

Oh and I vote no, get on with our law or get out it's their choice simple as really.


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2006)

L7 said:


> Andykangaroo I take it your pretty young then yeah ?


why, are you being age-ist?


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## Ria_saini (Jan 6, 2006)

AndyRoo_TT said:


> very good points jampott, toshiba
> 
> I* may have sounded racist*, but it wasnt intentional: it was my view from what I see with my own eyes, not what I hear from the media, and to have someone come here into _*my*_* country and tell me I cant express this view is disgusting*. full stop...


see its comments like that, that are racist. how dare you say people who have come into your country. as you seem to be so british and so PC, your not very diplomatic. in fact i just think your point blank rude and soon i have no doubt you will become a NAZI!!

FULL STOP AS YOU SAID DICK!


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## Ria_saini (Jan 6, 2006)

AndyRoo_TT said:


> The Silver Surfer said:
> 
> 
> > You forgot to include the third option.


which is send them all back to where they came from if they have a problem with our UK laws :lol:

YES FOR YOUR TINY BRAIN THIS WOULD BE SOOO FUNNY. LETS ALL LAUGHT :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2006)

next she'll be marching round London with billboards.. :roll:

:lol:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Ria_saini said:


> AndyRoo_TT said:
> 
> 
> > The Silver Surfer said:
> ...


So if I emmigrated to a largely Islamic country and demanded they repeal their laws or views on alcohol, the treatment of women, the treatment of animals etc - do you think my views would be heard? Do you think if I burned the flag of that country that I'd be treated fairly?

Or do you think it might be suggested, politely, that I ought to settle in a country which closer matched my own views?


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## Ria_saini (Jan 6, 2006)

I am not muslim and i dont condone their actions, all i am saying is remember some people have come from countrys which are completly different from here and arnt accustomed to the westernised ways, and hvae different cultures. i dont agree with bombings etc, in fact i was working at canary wharf at the time and was scared out of my wits. all i am saying is be wise with your words as it will hurt some people and dont be so judjemental and up on your high horse. thats it


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## zedman (Jan 31, 2005)

AndyRoo_TT said:


> very good points jampott, toshiba
> 
> I may have sounded racist, but it wasnt intentional: it was my view from what I see with my own eyes, not what I hear from the media, and to have someone come here into _*my*_ country and tell _*me*_ I cant express this view is disgusting. full stop...


i dont remember anyone saying you *couldn't* express this view, i just think your view is a load of narrow minded crap based on nothing more than your narrow minded thoughts. Anyway i do have a question though, when you say it's 'my country' what exactly do you mean? As a someone who was born here, has mostly english friends, pays all my taxes, employs a lot of people from various backgrounds, lived here forever and don't really have any desire to go back to where my parents are from does that mean it's not my country at all then?


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Ria_saini said:


> I am not muslim and i dont condone their actions, all i am saying is remember some people have come from countrys which are completly different from here and arnt accustomed to the westernised ways, and hvae different cultures. i dont agree with bombings etc, in fact i was working at canary wharf at the time and was scared out of my wits. all i am saying is be wise with your words as it will hurt some people and dont be so judjemental and up on your high horse. thats it


I didn't suggest you were Muslim - it just happens to be perhaps the most "contraversial" religion in the UK at the moment, what with everything going on - which is why I used it to draw examples.

I do appreciate that some people come from countries that are different from here. You have to ask yourself "Why do they come?" though... If they come because they want to live in the UK, then they should be prepared to make the effort to blend in with the existing culture - or at the very least, not be outwardly opposed to it. If they come simply because the UK has a good healthcare system and a very benefit-friendly Welfare State system, and wish only to take advantage of these "benefits", whilst setting up a mini version of their own country, to the exclusion of everything else around them, I think questions have to be asked.

As you've already pointed out, neither you nor your family are like that. As I've already said, "Congratulations..." but you must concede that this isn't always the case. It would be "racist" to label every immigrant in the same way, and suggest that NONE of them bother to fit in, and that ALL of them are potential suicide bombers - of that I'll be perfectly clear - but it certainly isn't racist (and is, indeed truthful) to suggest that this does happen. You only have to look at some of the immigrant areas of Birmingham, London etc to see what *can* happen.

There should be no place in the UK for immigrants who oppose the laws and values of the current incumbent citizens. To suggest otherwise is to invite conflict. I don't think ANYBODY (with the exception of the obvious extreme elements) wants that to happen...

In the midst of all this "theory", you cannot underestimate the power of human nature. We're naturally suspicious of things we don't understand, and naturally protective of ourselves and our environment. This isn't racism. With tension running higher than usual at the moment, it is a natural reaction to be overprotective and overly suspicious of those we perceive to represent a "threat". In light of the 9/11 and 7/7 attacks, the "Western" world has learnt that the "enemy" lies within. The "enemy" is a religious one, which we never thought could cause so much damage - so the natural reaction is to look DOUBLY hard at our countrymen / coworkers / colleagues and even friends, with a tendency towards increased suspicion. Of course this verges on what some might think to be "racism" - it is bound to - but I think the natural reaction of a country under attack is to do its best to protect itself as best it can.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Ria_saini said:


> AndyRoo_TT said:
> 
> 
> > very good points jampott, toshiba
> ...


This is personal attack and very Intelligently put :x


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2006)

jampott: ever thought about becoming a politician?


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

zedman said:


> AndyRoo_TT said:
> 
> 
> > very good points jampott, toshiba
> ...


When *I* say "my country", I refer to the country to which I think I belong.

For you, this is undoubtedly the UK. You consider yourself British and have no ties with the country of your parents' origin.

For others? Who knows... if they have ties to their own culture, and wish to hold this above the culture of the country they (or their parents) have settled in, to the extent that they wish to follow their own "law", teach their own "language" as the primary one in schools, and (jokes aside) support the football team / cricket team of their original "homeland", perhaps their "country" isn't Britain.

I lived in a foreign country. Wales. I still saw myself as English, but was happily prepared to take the flak for it from my Welsh friends. All good banter, but in another context, it was "racism". I wasn't prepared to learn Welsh, wasn't prepared to pledge allegiance to the Welsh rugby team and certainly wasn't prepared to tell anyone who asked that I was from Wales... and for that, I had to accept the (usually lighthearted) consequences.


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## zedman (Jan 31, 2005)

jampott said:


> I lived in a foreign country. Wales. I still saw myself as English, but was happily prepared to take the flak for it from my Welsh friends. All good banter, but in another context, it was "racism". I wasn't prepared to learn Welsh, wasn't prepared to pledge allegiance to the Welsh rugby team and certainly wasn't prepared to tell anyone who asked that I was from Wales... and for that, I had to accept the (usually lighthearted) consequences.


i see ur point but I don't think some of the comments that have been made by a various forum member are in any way lighthearted, infact they seemed to me to be some very serious contempt and hatred in what he said. Everyone can take the joke about running a corner shop etc but some things go * way* too far and are definately not lighthearted


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

This has gone way off topic.

If I correctly summarise some people are saying that anyone should be able to come to this country, choose the rules and laws they wish to follow, still call themselves a native of the original country and support the culture of that country and its teams/sports etc while reaping the rewards and benefits of living in this country?

Iâ€™m going to ask some very simple questions - whereâ€™s the integration, whereâ€™s the nationalism and in the event of an international crisis/war who side are you (generic term) on?

To say the least I am worried about the path we are taking as this could turn out to be an utter nightmare like Bosnia with areas based on religion or some other demographic.

PC has gone too far, thats the top and bottom of it all. People need to respect our culture and our ways as we would when theirs vistiing a foreign country (i exclude spain from this list :lol: ).


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## zedman (Jan 31, 2005)

Toshiba said:


> If I correctly summarise some people are saying that anyone should be able to come to this country, choose the rules and laws they wish to follow, still call themselves a native of the original country and support the culture of that country and its teams/sports etc while reaping the rewards and benefits of living in this country?


I've certainly not been saying that and neither has Ria in my opinion (but i don't know what her opinions are), if u read back i'm annoyed as some very narrow minded comments were made and everyone jumps to his defence saying oh no we musn't be too PC!! As a matter of fact I happen to think all people coming to this country should be prepared to follow the laws of this country or not bother making the journey, simple as that. And as long as an immigrant works hard,doesn't take money that they are not entitled to and respects the laws of their host country then why does it matter what team they support? It's not a bad thing to be proud of where you're from, and it certainly doesn't mean that you hate your host country does it?

And whoever does have the view quoted from Toshiba will you please make yourself known.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Toshiba said:


> This has gone way off topic.
> 
> If I correctly summarise some people are saying that anyone should be able to come to this country, choose the rules and laws they wish to follow, still call themselves a native of the original country and support the culture of that country and its teams/sports etc while reaping the rewards and benefits of living in this country?
> 
> ...


From personal, if lighthearted, experiences of living in Wales, where I made no effort to be "Welsh" (quite the opposite!) I still think the same basic premise is true, for foreign immigrants in general.

I experienced some discrimination, some occasional open hostility, but the majority of the time I was tolerated and accepted, despite obvious attempts to rile the sheep-shaggers by parading round in an English rugby shirt at every opportunity 

The difference being? I was happy to accept that a certain amount of hostility was going to be the end result, and despite being in the minority, I didn't think I was being oppressed in any way, and any discrimination was the primary result of my lack of any attempt to fit in. I was refused entry to a particular night club on a number of occasions for not being able to speak Welsh. Was I angered into burning the Welsh flag and demanding my views be heard? Nah... as an outsider, you just need to respect and understand that there is the potential you'll be treated differently, if you openly oppose the culture of the native citizens...

Even so, the most common attitude was one of tolerance - which is how I perceive the attitude of the UK in general to the majority of immigrants, regardless of colour, creed or religion. Like I said, we're probably more suspicious at the moment, but can we be blamed for that?!


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

jampott said:


> Toshiba said:
> 
> 
> > This has gone way off topic.
> ...


In short, "put up or shut up" is what I'm trying to say.

Accept that, if you wish to simply make a mini version of your homeland, and impose your own law (what this thread was initially about) you WILL be opposed, even by usually tacit members of the native country. Their opposition isn't racism, simply the protection of their OWN laws and culture.

Whilst stoning people or chopping their hands off is a perfectly acceptable form of punishment in some countries, this simply isn't the way we do things here, and any movement to change this by ANY part of the population, be they muslim, facist, socialist, female, homosexual, green or even bright pink with purple spots will be met with opposition... and this opposition isn't racism, simply the opposition to the introduction of laws which have no place here. The fact that they are the laws of X, Y or Z culture does not automatically mean that culture is being discriminated against.


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## zedman (Jan 31, 2005)

Jampott I don't know who you're stressing at. I'm a muslim and I don't think Sharia law has any place in Britain, of all the muslims I know only maybe 10% would agree with that Sharia law should be introduced, of those 10% i can't think of any that would actually be arsed to go out and campaign for it so if you think there's some secret underground movement that wants Sharia Law then I don't know where ur getting it from. I don't for a second believe the 4 out of 10 statistic was conducted across muslims as a whole, so can everyone stop presuming that anyone islamic wants to make a 'mini version of our homeland'...


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

Im waiting for my papers to come through for immigration to Canada.

It takes 3 years and this is for a family with a reasonable amount of cash, the correct background, good jobs (My wife is a Nurse Practitioner so a priority 1 job for Canada) etc etc..

They dont just let anyone in. Then when immigrants do arrive, everyone else knows they must be bringing something to the country as otherwise, they wouldnt be there, this ensures that immigrants are welcomed and embraced into the community. Each town of a reasonable size actually has a named new immigrant officer (usually part time or vuluntary) who helps you settle. Cities have proper Organisations to do this.

The whole country is made up, mostly, of immigrants so theres none of this blanket 'bloody immigrants' crap.

When I get there I have to behave for 2 years as a permenant resident before I can apply for citizenship. 5 years in total!!!

When I can, I shall do so as much as im proud of being British.

Why? Because if im going to live in someone elses country i think its only fair for me to embrace their culture. If I dont like that culture and their laws, then why go there in the first place?

Having toured Canada 3 times Ive found that people of every colour and creed are proud to be Canadian with 'x' origin rather than here immigrants seem to say, on the whole (im generalising of course) 'im from 'x' and I live in Britain' I guess the reason is because they are welcomed as Canadians whereas here, we do not do that and subsequently I guess people hang onto being from 'x' as they never really feel like they come from Britain. I dunno, Im just guessing how they feel.

I mean if I arrive in Canada and no one wants to know us ill probably look for other recent Brit immigrants to hang out with, and if we all do that dont we become 'them' the immigrants who make a litttle Britain in someone elses country and dont mix??

And for the record, I couldnt give a monkeys what colour people are or what religion they are from. People are people, some are arseholes and some arent. Simple as that.

Im white by the way, well, bluey pink, I live in Yorkshire.


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## NIIK_TT (May 7, 2002)

Something that I have noticed is that regarding 'Asian' religions those that come from a Hindu or Sikh background tend to be more adaptable to British customs to the point that they take on British names e.g. Harvinder aka Harry or Ravinder aka Ricky.

Hindu and Sikhs tend to also indulge in popular past times like drinking ( maybe excessively at times ) and football (see how many asian supporters in England games are Sikh or Hindu). Something else I have noticed is that muslims in the UK tend to form their own socio groups and dont venture out of them. They remain fustrated, angry and despondent and this can develop into extremism.

While I have stereotyped considerably there are always some individuals from whatever background that break their stereotype for better or worst. Some of them exist on this forum as well - gladly for the better.


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## Ria_saini (Jan 6, 2006)

Nik is your porsche for sale, if so is it a 911 996, as i am looking for one with the GT3 kit. how much and what year and milage is it. could you PM me your spec, thanks


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

zedman said:


> Jampott I don't know who you're stressing at. I'm a muslim and I don't think Sharia law has any place in Britain, of all the muslims I know only maybe 10% would agree with that Sharia law should be introduced, of those 10% i can't think of any that would actually be arsed to go out and campaign for it so if you think there's some secret underground movement that wants Sharia Law then I don't know where ur getting it from. I don't for a second believe the 4 out of 10 statistic was conducted across muslims as a whole, so can everyone stop presuming that anyone islamic wants to make a 'mini version of our homeland'...


Zed, ol' fella - I'm not "stressing" at anyone. Just indulging in a little "airing of my views", and as this is a forum, its not a bad place to do so.

I do find it a trifle "racist" that those of us posting in this thread are, by the fact that we have an opinion, obviously "racist" ourselves - nor do I think it right that a person should join in to say "this thread should be locked", then decide to wade in with a view (one law for them, one for everyone else?)

There IS some movement which want Sharia Law. The survey on which this thread is based kinda proves that. Either that, or it proves that a certain portion of the muslim community are prepared to SAY they want it, for whatever reason (incitement to racism?!) 

This movement is NOT "underground" - they're living and breathing here in the UK, and have an open voice in the media, it seems.

The 10% that YOU think would agree that Sharia Law should be introduced... are THEY an underground movement? No - they're normal people who simply have that view.

Nobody is presuming that all muslims want to create a mini version of their homeland. Go ahead and quote where I've stated otherwise. I'm suggesting that SOME do, and this is obvious without listening to the bias of the media. I can show you areas where English isn't the first language, and campaigns are in motion for other languages to be taught as the primary ones in school. To extrapolate this to suggest that ALL muslims act this way is obviously nonsense - and this sort of generalisation is at the very heart of racism itself.

My point is simply this. If you go to live in another land and make NO effort to harmonise, or (in extreme cases) go out of your way to put forward counter views, and are in the minority, you have to expect to be treated with disdain, discrimination and oppression.

As the other thread I dredged up was plain to state - I applaud the fact that various religious groups and races can teach their principles and cultures to keep their history alive, despite being in a foreign land. We (as a land, and as a race) owe an awful lot of our own culture / diet / skills to those gleaned from immigrants past and present. Our national dish is a curry, FFS, and I don't see this as a bad thing - its something that has developed entirely as a result of the harmonisation of 2 different cultures / diets. However, an attempt to FORCE different laws / views on the majority by the minority is simply not acceptable. There is a huge difference between, say, teaching your children Islamic tradition and its beliefs, the language, the background and the culture as a part of their general upbringing, versus forcing the local schools to adopt this as the curriculum.


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