# Ownership strategies for high mileage driving



## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

Just about to start a new job, and am considering driving instead of using the train, as I currently spend an absolute fortune on travel (circa Â£11k per year).

So, the commute would consist of 900 miles per week, or roughly 43,000 miles per year. I can therefore claim approx Â£11,000 expenses (I am director of a company). Currently I claim the full amount on the train, which coincidentally is also Â£11,000.

So, the big question is, can I run a car for 43,000 miles for significantly less than Â£11,000? If I'm going to spend 3-4 hours per day in it, it's got to be a very nice place to sit. Clearly we're talking diesel, since even at 40mpg the fuel cost alone will be Â£4400.

Insurance costs, and one service per year can be offset, since I'd own a car anyway. It occurs to me that I might need to own 2/3 cars a year in order to avoid putting silly mileages on a single vehicle. I have a 12 month contract, so we only need to consider a single year.

No idea how (or if) I can make this work, but your thoughts are welcome.


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

Carl,

First thoughts (may or may not be helpful but the intention is good)

If you will be having 3 - 4 hours per day commute time per day - if you're driving you can't be doing any work.

If you're on a train, you could be doing some work on a laptop, and possibly cutting down your hours in the office.

Will you have to travel every day, or could you work from home 1 or 2 days per week ?

I work from home 1 - 2 days per week now when I'm not travelling internationally. If I go into the office, I try to fix meetings for 10 or later - I'll be on my lappy at home from 8am, then travel in when the traffic has settled after 9.

I think the big question here is not what is cheapest, but what is most productive for you.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Â£11k on train travel ,wouldn't catch me spending a penny 8) :lol:
On the other hand for all the inside info on how to get the best value in train travel PM me :wink:


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## davidg (Sep 14, 2002)

wallsendmag said:


> Â£11k on train travel ,wouldn't catch me spending a penny 8) :lol:
> On the other hand for all the inside info on how to get the best value in train travel PM me :wink:


Well somone has to fund your new TT :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:


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## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

I can't be arsed doing the maths, but whatever car you buy will plummet in value if it's got 43k on after 12 months.

As I see it you have 3 basic options....

1. Buy the car you want, and run it into the ground and decide you're going to lose it's purchase price.

2. buy an 11k car and after a year, whatever it sells for, regard as profit.

3. Get a decent discount then keep changing your car every couple of months when it has a few k on the clock and hope a private sale will mean you haven't lost too much (the most risky IYAM)

HTH

H


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

I'd stick to the train ,free WiFi and we need to get that $180 million from somewhere :wink:


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## Nando (Feb 5, 2004)

Carlos said:


> If I'm going to spend 3-4 hours per day


I would be too tired to concentrate on the diving after a day in the office, especially for 2hrs each way.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

Move house
Move your office
Buy a Smart for the commute and a TT to mod and play out in.


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## Teehee (May 22, 2005)

Hi Carlos

Last year I commuted from my house near Sherwood Forest to Birmingham everyday. A couple of minor roads then M1, A42, M42, M6 etc.

The car I used would suprise you as it was a Peugeot 106. However, due to my job at the time I regulary got to play with Audi vehicles but at the time I really enjoyed the (very simplistic) nature of the car. 50,000 miles in one year, cheap to run and a great way to unwind after a hectic day.

I'm not saying that a 106 is the way to go - besides you can't have mine as my wife passed her driving test on Thursday (  ) and I run an Audi now - but the point I'm trying to make is that sometimes it helps to think outside the box. I used to find it quite amusing to watch the stereotypical high mileage drivers in the Fords, BMWs etc tailgating each other as I plodded along (but keeping up with them - twas the M6 afterall!).

I love the interior of an Audi - second to none in my opinion - and if it is an upmarket vehicle that you go for then I'd consider either an A4 or A6 diesel. In my opinion the Tip is better than the Multi if you want auto but then you'll also add quattro to the package - if you don't need than then you're looking at a heavier car with an impact on the fuel usage.

Hope this helps


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

A cheapish BMW M5 that the owner has already taken the almighty initial hit on?


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> A cheapish BMW M5 that the owner has already taken the almighty initial hit on?


Nice idea, but I'd want one that hasn't been ragged to within an inch of its life on track :wink:


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## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

kmpowell said:


> A cheapish BMW M5 that the owner has already taken the almighty initial hit on?


PMSL

I do fairly high miles, but the 106 is a definate no no in my book (although the theory works) mainly due to another theory....

....if you're doing that much milage, its mainly motorway....I see about 3-4 accidents/week on my 80m/day commute on the motorways (but have been fortunate not to be in any, although there have been a few near-misses)....if I was in an accident on the motorway, I would not want to be in a 106.....

I know the risk is pretty small, but I personally wouldn't want to take it, so I take Mr Depreciations hit instead.

H


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

I have to be in the office 40 hours per week. Working from home is not an option. Also I have no desire to move.

I'm coming to the conclusion that its not going to be economically viable unless I buy a series of cheap cars, put a few miles on one then sell it. One after the other.


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## Teehee (May 22, 2005)

Morning H

I too wouldn't recommend the 106 for two reasons; 1, after 50,000 miles in a year you get quite attached to it and therefore its unrealistically priced  , and secondly, the only reason I did it was because we had recently purchased out first house and needed to the money for work we had planned, and also for the work that we did not have planned!

My point was that it doesn't have to be a Mondeo, BMW, Audi etc - could be something individual and I felt this aspect of the 106 to be theraputic. I am quitely confident that I was the only person in the UK doing a 150 mile daily comute in a 106  and that is what made it bearable.

Personally, I would be looking at investigating the train route/cost deeper as although my job did not allow for work during the times I was driving, I would assume that a director would be abe to use that time well.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> A cheapish BMW M5 that the owner has already taken the almighty initial hit on?


Not me, the initial owner was Halliwell Jones & they did take a Â£16K hit by the time i bought it :lol: :wink: The current owner is happy 

I'm not facing a mighty hit as i stand right now given prices have hardened slightly. I'll still take a hit but only relative to being 6mths older & having an extra 14K miles. Had 2 dealers offer me well over Â£50K but not quite enough yet to entice me to sell.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Carl,

M5 is defo not a car condusive with high miles (you knew that already :wink: )


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## Rhod_TT (May 7, 2002)

3 years ago I bought a 1995 Volvo 850 (2.5) Auto estate for 3k. Did about 100miles a day for my commute for about a year. It was a nice comfy (safe  ) place to be and hasn't missed a beat since I bought it with 130k on the clock (it's now at 186kmiles). Worth about Â£1k now I'd say (hardly any of the loss is attributed to the milage) but theres lots of high milage ones around which means they just go and go. Servicing cost me about Â£300 in a year most of which was for a cambelt change - oil service and plugs was an easy DIY job. If I was doing it again, I'd try and find a diesel one since the 23mpg wasn't so useful. But it means the TT didn't get the miles and so suffer in value more so.

If I was in your position, I'd probably go through about 2-3 cars a year so spreading the milage around. But I guess the real decision is whether you try and stick to nearly new cars or ancient old ones (6yrs+). Personally I'd probably go with the old ones (less risk if the car turns out to be a lemon).

If you buy a nearly new car with under 5kmiles on the clock, then run it for 6months (so it'll be at 30kmiles) what will it's value be then? It will still be under a year old and have 2 years warranty for the next purchaser so that takes some of their risk away. But it's the depreciation over those 6 months that could be the killer.

Get friendly with a local second hand car dealer


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## TJS (May 6, 2002)

Another possibility is to purchase a 2 or 3 year old ex company diesel car from auction. Run it for 6 months and sell privately, you may break even in terms of capital value.

At auction a high mileage company car has to be a better bet than a low mileage "private" entry which has usaully been repossessed by a finance company. Serviced and maintained without question, lots of stress free motorway miles.

I did this in the early 80s when stoney broke with a series of auctioned ex Norwich Union cars, 4 x Peugeot 305 diesel estates, never had a problem with them and all sold well privately.


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

900 miles a week is a lot of time to be spending in a car, so if you must, you'd better find a car with as many toys and as much comfort as possible, and it's got to be reliable so I'd go for something as new as possible considering the mileage you'll be doing. I don't know your opinions on French cars or if the badge matters (as it does to some on here :wink: :lol: ) how about a 6-8 month old Peugeot 407 they're cheap to buy, full of toys, give good economy and performance, and easy to sell on afterwards.

Buy the car you really want and have a runabout too has been my strategy I bought a fully loaded 405 td estate a few years back (as a 'temporary' car before the TT arrived) it's been so good i've still got it. Infact having it has helped me keep the Monaro :wink:


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## ADB (May 7, 2002)

wallsendmag said:


> I'd stick to the train ,free WiFi and we need to get that $180 million from somewhere :wink:


Free WiFi? What train operator is that with?


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

ADB said:


> wallsendmag said:
> 
> 
> > I'd stick to the train ,free WiFi and we need to get that $180 million from somewhere :wink:
> ...


GNER 8) well I thought for Â£11k it must be first class travel


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## gcp (Aug 8, 2002)

Do you have a bike license ?, might cut down on the time considerably.

If not multiple cheaper (<7k) cars, run 2 or 3 in a year, stick to good sellers, plenty of passat/leon/mondeo/focus diesels around that sort of price.


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

wallsendmag said:


> ADB said:
> 
> 
> > wallsendmag said:
> ...


Yep, GNER first class. It's very good but very expensive. It would be Â£8k per year if I could stomach giving them that much cash in one go...


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

For that much of a saving Carl - I'd be tempted to stump up upfront.

You'd save almost as much as I pay for my annual ticket - and for that extra cash, you could buy yourself something quite nice. Whether that's help with running your own car (and modding it) or buying/leasimg something decent.


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

I'd be looking to move closer to work or look for another job if it were me, seems over 30% of your day is spent travelling :?

Mate of mine used to travel for similar times, distances and when you actually worked out what he got payed for his total working day inc travelling he could of taken a 30% drop in salary and have a better family enviroment :?


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## GW1970 (Jul 4, 2005)

With that kind of mileage I would go for a well depreciated Prestiged badged barge, that can run you up and down the m-ways with ease.

Also you don't have to worry about depreciation.


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

Carlos said:


> So, the big question is, can I run a car for 43,000 miles for significantly less than Â£11,000? If I'm going to spend 3-4 hours per day in it, it's got to be a very nice place to sit. Clearly we're talking diesel, since even at 40mpg the fuel cost alone will be Â£4400.


Hi Carlos,

In answer to your question, Yes..!!

We can car share :roll:

I drive from Peterborough down to Essex 4 days a week, a round trip of 200 miles/day. Journey time is 80 minutes in the morning (leaving at 5:40am) and about 100 minutes coming home, say leaving about 6:00pm. If you have to be in the office 40 hours/week, if you can start at 7am you can leave at 3pm and be home for 4:30pm. If you leave Pâ€™boro at 7am you will need to add at least another 30 minutes on the journey as the A14 to Cambridge is pants.

You will probably find the commute door to door takes less time in the car than on the train (if you're London bound) unless you are 5 minutes from the station at either end of the journey.

I bought a 2 year old Focus for Â£7k, admittedly not a nice place to sit but as a motorway slogger it's fine. I get 500 miles out of Â£45 of diesel, so Â£90/week. As it's Motorway miles only I have upped the service interval to 20,000 miles. Assuming I get 3 years out of this car it will have cost Â£4000 fuel + Â£2333 depreciation + Â£300 servicing + Â£120 tax + Â£200 insurance + Â£240 tyres + Â£160 AA cover per year = Â£7360.

This assumes I get nothing back for it after 3 years and throw it away and buy another cheap hack; another Focus/Mondeo TDCi.

Downside is bad weather and accidents.

So on your budget of Â£11k, I recon you will be Â£3.5k better off.

Cheers

Pete


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## thejepster (Mar 29, 2005)

Carl, I presume a company car/lease scheme is not an option - I do a 250 mile round trip into the office, and for me, the econonics were highly stacked in the company car direction. The fixed price of the fuel benefit/car tax means I can do as many miles as I need, at no extra cost, and the convenience if anything ever goes wrong means I am no longer worried if the car breaks down/accident etc as a replacement vehicle will be with me immediately and the company picks up the cost.

As an example, the BIK tax for a fully expensed 320d M sport is ~ Â£276 per month for a 40% tax payer. You may have to tailor a quote to cover your high miles, but even so, that is a cheap car to run.

If you're sinking Â£11k of your own money into whatever form of transport, you may as well sink Â£6k into a company car and invest the rest.

Rich


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

Mate, how are you going to get home when you've been out on the razzle?

Also, what is the frequency per week, that you NEED to be home by a certain time eg: Parents evening at your daughter's school etc etc....this is where this means of travel will hurt you the most.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

thejepster said:


> Carl, I presume a company car/lease scheme is not an option - I do a 250 mile round trip into the office, and for me, the econonics were highly stacked in the company car direction. The fixed price of the fuel benefit/car tax means I can do as many miles as I need, at no extra cost, and the convenience if anything ever goes wrong means I am no longer worried if the car breaks down/accident etc as a replacement vehicle will be with me immediately and the company picks up the cost.
> 
> As an example, the BIK tax for a fully expensed 320d M sport is ~ Â£276 per month for a 40% tax payer. You may have to tailor a quote to cover your high miles, but even so, that is a cheap car to run.
> 
> ...


Agree.

Carl is a director of the company so I assume he can generate his own company car. If so I'd see little logic in not running his own company car at that mileage rate. Although I'd consider either moving closer to work or at least staying a few nights each week.

4 hours a day in a car before doing any work, is a lot of time wasted. But if you are going to waste it, you may as well sit in something you wnat to be in.

My 330cd invoice value Â£35K under co car scheme costs me net Â£370 cash per month with fuel card, after all allowances, and including tax at 40% level. So it can be done.

Either that or you just get a Â£10K A4/Golf etc 2.0 tdi, and run it to 200K miles, which it will do easily on low duty cycle motorway miles, forgetting all about the value. Every time you change cars you run the risk of getting that big costly breakdown. It only needs to happen once to blow your disposible car strategy.

Whatever you get - it needs a decent stereo. :wink:


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

Thing is, if I stump the cash up front I can get it down to Â£8k anyway, so stumping the cash up for an Â£8k car doesn't really save anything.

We are settled where we are, and all happy, so no inclination to move. Also I don't want to spend nights away from the family. I also need to be in the office between the hours of 830 and 1730 (investment bank, not flexible).

Car share would do it, but only if you worked exactly the same hours, in the same place. So scavenger, if you happen to work in Canary Wharf, lets talk


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Carlos said:


> wallsendmag said:
> 
> 
> > ADB said:
> ...


Annual season ticket ? what about the direct debit scheme 25 % up front then four 19% (roughly) payments two months apart :idea: plus you get to join our Time loyalty scheme (if you haven't already) cracking ideas :wink:


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

Our? Our? You don't work for that useless bunch of d1cks do you?


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Duty Manager Newcastle Travel centre


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

ps thanks for the front third of the car 8)


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

Carlos said:


> Car share would do it, but only if you worked exactly the same hours, in the same place. So scavenger, if you happen to work in Canary Wharf, lets talk


Ah shame, Canary Wharf is too far in for me plus the wrong hours.

And 5 days a week, makes me shudder just thinking about that :roll: :wink:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Carlos said:


> Thing is, if I stump the cash up front I can get it down to Â£8k anyway, so stumping the cash up for an Â£8k car doesn't really save anything.
> 
> We are settled where we are, and all happy, so no inclination to move. Also I don't want to spend nights away from the family. I also need to be in the office between the hours of 830 and 1730 (investment bank, not flexible).
> 
> Car share would do it, but only if you worked exactly the same hours, in the same place. So scavenger, if you happen to work in Canary Wharf, lets talk


Well they must be paying you very well Carl.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Do you/would you ride a motorbike?

Even if you don't, for 11k, you could do an intensive course, pass your test and buy all the kit (bike included). After the first year, you would be quids in. Plus, you'd cut down your journey times.

Of course, the downside is the danger as well as being cold and/or wet upon arrival.


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

Kell said:


> Do you/would you ride a motorbike?
> 
> Of course, the downside is the danger as well as being cold and/or wet upon arrival.


Being a biker and driving the route Carlos would take it would not be something I would recommend.

I have done it a couple of times on a bike but myopic, sleepy car drivers at 6/7am really is no fun.

And you would get fed up of filling the bloody thing up..!! Neither my R1 nor my Bandit get me to work and back on a full tank. :roll:


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

That surprises me actually - I thought bikes were so frugal that you could go on for days.

Not even a tourer?


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## NIIK_TT (May 7, 2002)

A possible car could be a Golf Mk3 diesel automatic. Cost about a grand and a bit and would have little depreciation left.

My mum has one and its a very smooth drive for the price. Ofcourse a decent stereo is a must.


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## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

Kell said:


> That surprises me actually - I thought bikes were so frugal that you could go on for days.
> 
> Not even a tourer?


The GS 'Adventure' has a massive tank range....but isn't designed for 'filtering'!!!

H


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

Carlos said:


> Just about to start a new job, and am considering driving instead of using the train, as I currently spend an absolute fortune on travel (circa Â£11k per year).


I'd say accept it as the inevitable penalty given the following:

1. Living in a lovely house like yours would cost you WAY more than Â£11K per year extra if you moved closer to work

2. Moving to a job closer to home would no doubt put a large dent in your wallet

3. Whilst costly, your existing travel arrangements are relatively convenient given the significant mileage involved. There are people taking much shorter train journeys that take far longer.

4. Commuting by car might save you a little money, but would suck by comparison. Getting stuck in a traffic jam on the A1 in the pi$$ing down with rain after a long slog in the office will soon lose its novelty compared to entertaining yourself in your 1st class rail seat. Ditto the stress when you're stuck in traffic on the way in. I've been driving 56 miles to Wales from Bristol at least one night each week and by the time I arrive, I'm invariably miserable as sin. Conversely, when I take the train I read a book, catch up on some work, plan the next day, listen to /watch my iPod and emerge relatively sane.

Rob


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

b3ves said:


> Carlos said:
> 
> 
> > Just about to start a new job, and am considering driving instead of using the train, as I currently spend an absolute fortune on travel (circa Â£11k per year).
> ...


That sort of travelling schedule could dent far more than your wallet. Time is the most valuable thing that we all have. Especially time with family and loved ones. That sort of travelling schedule has far more implications than the cost of a second hand diesel Golf. Or the depn on a new Audi.

Like i said, I hope they are apying very very well.

Good luck on the commute.


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

I have been doing a similar commute for the past 6 years.

You get used to it, and as Rob says, sitting on the train is nice (free wi-fi on our services).

Driving is off the agenda. What a waste of a 5 page thread :roll:


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## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

Carlos said:


> Driving is off the agenda. What a waste of a 5 page thread :roll:


Not really, this is what I should be doing.....but have opted for the Osterich technique and put a post it in fromt of the odometer...

H


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

Carlos said:


> I have been doing a similar commute for the past 6 years.
> 
> You get used to it, and as Rob says, sitting on the train is nice (free wi-fi on our services).
> 
> Driving is off the agenda. What a waste of a 5 page thread :roll:


I'm glad you said that. 'Fing timewaster


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

aye :roll: ........and anyone know how is Paul getting on with the M5 Lady Beast ("it's a 'she' you know") replacement? :wink:


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

garyc said:


> aye :roll: ........and anyone know how is Paul getting on with the M5 Lady Beast ("it's a 'she' you know") replacement? :wink:


Damn, I forgot to sell my shares in Shell!


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> aye :roll: ........and anyone know how is Paul getting on with the M5 Lady Beast ("it's a 'she' you know") replacement? :wink:


So far not alot happening. Private buyers are hard to attract i guess this close to Xmas. I've had 4 firm offers North of Â£50K but not quite far enough North. The funniest was from BMW Central Purchasing who fancied buying the car for stock  .

Anyhow, when she does go i'll either opt for a 330D/CD or Equiv Audi (used of course) & still up to but no higher than Â£20K.

I can't be arsed to push the M5 sale too hard being so close to Xmas, so will carry on as before & wait to see what happens.

Got a track day at Donnington on the 29th Dec & that's a track i've been dying to drive (no pun intended) so hope to keep hold of her until then.

Thanks to everyone who contributed on the Suggestion threads & once she goes i know down to 2 Marques/models what i'll be replacng her with.


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

Donington is a fantastic track and generally quite good for big, powerful cars. You'll go well there.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Carlos said:


> Donington is a fantastic track and generally quite good for big, powerful cars. You'll go well there.


I'm hoping so.

On your situation Carl, i think the train is by far the best option. Doing those kind of daily miles with British Roads & traffic snarls the way they are, even driving s Bentley you'd fairly soon get pi$$ed off with the commute. I assume the East Coast Mainline runs fairly punctual??

I'd certainly take the train option if it were me.


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

Carlos said:


> Driving is off the agenda. What a waste of a 5 page thread :roll:


Assuming getting to Canary Wharf would take an additional 30 minutes from the M25 (guess), you would certainly be looking at >2 hours each way without traffic issues.

Must be taking you the best part of that from home to work anyway, but you still get the comfort and a relatively stress free journey.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

So I can rely on you to help fund my next car then


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

And if you want your season ticket issued properly come to Newcastle we would be more than happy to take Â£8k from you 8)


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

I used to drive 1.5 hours each way in and out of Canary Wharf in a Â£40K Porsche. Its a lot of time to be stuck in traffic, albeit in a nice car. I don't do it anymore and I don't miss it :wink:

So Paul - what car will you be getting after your next one?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

PaulS said:


> I used to drive 1.5 hours each way in and out of Canary Wharf in a Â£40K Porsche. Its a lot of time to be stuck in traffic, albeit in a nice car. I don't do it anymore and I don't miss it :wink:
> 
> So Paul - what car will you be getting after your next one?


997 Turbo me hopes 8)


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> PaulS said:
> 
> 
> > I used to drive 1.5 hours each way in and out of Canary Wharf in a Â£40K Porsche. Its a lot of time to be stuck in traffic, albeit in a nice car. I don't do it anymore and I don't miss it :wink:
> ...


Cool. Isn't it nice when a plan comes together :wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

PaulS said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > PaulS said:
> ...


Long way off yet Paul. Got the M5 to sell yet


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