# Mods to assist a stage 1 remap (no negative guff)



## Flashy (Nov 8, 2019)

I know there are lots of opinions on this  
I have a pipercross panel filter in the oem airbox. Is it worth getting an enclosed airbox with a built in cold air feed? One thing I don't like about the oem airbox is how open to the hot engine bay that the scoop/intake pipe is. 
Surely it won't hurt, and may help the car run to the best of it's abilities? Plus the oem filter dimensions are quite small.


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

You dont need anything more than what you have for stage 1 you dont even "need" the panel filter. If you want a filter get a large cone filter and dont get bogged down on hot air in the engine bay, every high power car runs them, so its a myth obviously.


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## Flashy (Nov 8, 2019)

I'm looking at a cone filter that has twice the surface area of the panel filter, it is also in an enclosed air box with a caf from the front foglight area. Surely that has to be beneficial compared to the oem set up.


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

Flashy said:


> I'm looking at a cone filter that has twice the surface area of the panel filter, it is also in an enclosed air box with a caf from the front foglight area. Surely that has to be beneficial compared to the oem set up.


Yeah but wont be noticeable other than noise couple of hp either way doesnt do anything. You will just gain the looks and sound, just be careful with enclosed ones sometimes they restrict airflow more than standard box even like the BMC filters for eg alot bought them for the mk1 tt and then found they got worse figures from them even with the cold air feed. The cheapest branded cone filter for these is like the ram air one and decent power cars have ran them with success anything with a large cone will do for you.


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

Searching for someone to say what you want to hear won't make a difference....


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## FNChaos (Nov 30, 2016)

Rufflesj said:


> Searching for someone to say what you hear won't make a difference....


Here you go... https://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html


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## Flashy (Nov 8, 2019)

As expected. So why do the tuners tend to recommend a panel filter upgrade when remapping for stage 1?


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## FNChaos (Nov 30, 2016)

Flashy said:


> As expected. So why do the tuners tend to recommend a panel filter upgrade when remapping for stage 1?


*Money*. :lol:

Cut from a previous post:

More flow means nothing unless you can make use of the additional amount of air provided by the increased flow.

Maximum horsepower is achieved by extracting as much energy as you can out of your fuel. In order to extract the maximum amount of energy you need to burn fuel completely without waste.
In order to burn fuel completely you need to provide the exact number of oxygen molecules required to match up with the given quantity of available fuel ( the amount differs depending on the fuel type)

Adding more oxygen beyond that point does not improve combustion or increase power. For a gasoline engine the optimum ratio of fuel to air is ~ 1 part gas to 14.7 parts air (aka. stoichiometric air-fuel ratio).

The maximum amount of this stoichiometic air/fuel mix that can be used is determined by 1.) your engine's displacement, 2.) the amount of compression applied, and 3.) the number of exchanges over a given time period. All that said, if your existing intake system can meet this demand, replacing it with the most nonrestrictive filter in the world won't make a bit of difference.

Now If you have (heavily) modified you engine to the point where air is a limiting factor, a well designed induction kit makes sense as it will allow you to burn more fuel, but installing an induction kit as a first mod on an otherwise stock motor just screams 'poser'. An audible announcement to the world that you've spent good money on a device that provides no benefit other than noise (when that money could've been spent actually making your car faster / better) all at the expense of less filtration and ease of maintenance.

There is a reason Stage2+ tuned cars require an upgraded HPFP. At Stage2+ fuel, not air is still the limiting factor.

As far as a 'cold air feed' is concerned, the OEM setup draws air from the grill of your car, an enclosed box won't improve on that (but a poorly designed exposed cone filter can make things worse). On a turbo motor you'd be better served by upgrading your intercooler where the air is cooled post-compression where it actually makes a difference.


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## Flashy (Nov 8, 2019)

So nobody seems to be a fan of induction kits on a turbo car but many still buy them.  
Made sense to have a good induction kit on my NA car as it aided throttle response. 
Ok, next step mods then. I'm hoping to reduce wheel hop and improve traction, I'm guessing the dog mount insert and WALK will be my best option. Probably save my money on the induction kit and get the suspension sorted.


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## FNChaos (Nov 30, 2016)

Flashy said:


> So nobody seems to be a fan of induction kits on a turbo car but many still buy them.


People spent money all the time on things that make no difference. Whether it is 'weight-loss pills or motor oil additives, people buy into the hype / hope that for only a few $$ you'll instantly benefit with no effort.
Even if you could demonstrate horsepower gains (above the margin of error) with an induction kit, if you were to divide the number of 'horses' gained by the cost of the kit you'd find it is one of the most costly / least effective mods you can buy.



Flashy said:


> Made sense to have a good induction kit on my NA car as it aided throttle response.


Yes, as discussed before, air velocity was important as it was the mechanism used to draw fuel from your carburetor (aka the venturi effect) and airflow through your intake manifold was carefully controlled to ensured each cylinder got the same amount of air/ fuel...but direct fuel injection engines don't rely on the airflow to draw fuel into the combustion chamber there is little benefit to 'streamlining' that airflow (on a turbo motor, there is no benefit since air has to flow through the turbo and the turbo relies on exhaust, not intake air velocity to draw air into your intake).


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## Flashy (Nov 8, 2019)

Does anyone have any positive changes that can be made to create the best possible stage 1 car? It seems nothing can be done to improve the car to it's best abilities


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

FNChaos said:


> Rufflesj said:
> 
> 
> > Searching for someone to say what you hear won't make a difference....
> ...


Not with you, I agree and also know they aren't worth it, a load of noise is all he'll get but he keeps on until someone agrees with him so as to justify it.

Flashy's next post: ''Now that I've told you all 100 times a day I've got a stage one tune, should I wipe my arse with my other hand, for more performance?''

I'd be more worried about the arse dropping out of my engine after raising it by 60hp


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## Flashy (Nov 8, 2019)

Wow, on your way.

I give up on this place, I thought it was supposed to be an enthusiast forum. Obviously got that wrong.


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## FNChaos (Nov 30, 2016)

Flashy said:


> Does anyone have any positive changes that can be made to create the best possible stage 1 car? It seems nothing can be done to improve the car to it's best abilities


Well, the first question is, what do you dislike about your current setup? And two, what would you consider a "positive" change (vs just a chance for the sake of change)?

There are several 'build' threads on the forum, and members like Barr_end, MT-V6 and IPG3.6 have running threads on mods, maintenance and improvements that can be made.

As for me, here is a list of things that I have done to my 2012 TTS, (some more beneficial than others)...

*Engine*
Unitronics Stage2 ECU tune 
Unitronics Stage2 TCU (DSG) tune 
42 Draft Designs 3" SS downpipe / sport cat / resonator
034 Motorsports upper / lower dogbone inserts 
BFI Stage1 engine / transmission mounts
GFB diverter valve
HPFP stud kit
Red Rev 'E' coil packs (Eldor)
NGK BKR8EIX spark plugs (1 stage cooler)
Billeted oil filter and DSG filter housings

*Suspension*
Conti Summer / Michelin winter performance tires
Lightweight Mk3 OEM forged rims 
H&R 10mm spacers
RAD forged wheel bolts
Vogland lowered sport springs (w/ Magride)
034 Motorsports track density strut mounts / bushings
034 Motorsports strut tower reinforcement plates
H&R rear antiroll bar
034 Motorsports adjustable droplinks
SuperPro Antilift kit 
SuperPro control arm bushing kit

*Brakes*
Hawk HP5.0 Performance brake pads and Motul 600 fluid. 
Slotted rotors 
SS brake lines
Performance caliper bushing kit

*Interior*
P3 multi-gauge
Paddle extensions
Garmin back-up camera 
Siruis Satellite radio (via RNS-e)
Odyssey fully sealed (non-spillable) AGM battery w/ CTEK quick disconnect at grill

*Exterior*
AudiSport TT-RS side skirts
Complete front end / rockers / door cups & edges wrapped with clear Xpel protection film
Tinted windows
Switchable bi-color LED foglights
Tinted tail lights
LED taillight bulb upgrade

*Extras*
Custom fit Indoor car cover
Flat stopper tire cradles
Battery jump pack
US Jack scissor jack
And of course, 'Go fast' stickers (tastefully applied  )...


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## carlsicesilverTT (Jun 30, 2016)

Rufflesj said:


> FNChaos said:
> 
> 
> > Rufflesj said:
> ...


No need for this rubbish talk, the guy spent a lot of money on his car, his car can handle the extra power no problem, give the guy credit for going for the tune. His car is a flying machine now.

A ram air or adapted REVO cone air filter will offer improved throttle response, extra 5hp and will allow engine to breathe better. Cone filter will also give engine a more sporty sound.


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

No need for this rubbish talk, the guy spent a lot of money on his car, his car can handle the extra power no problem, give the guy credit for going for the tune. His car is a flying machine now.

A ram air or adapted REVO cone air filter will offer improved throttle response, extra 5hp and will allow engine to breathe better. Cone filter will also give engine a more sporty sound.[/quote]

Even better than standard TTS by any chance? :lol: You haven't a clue, cone filter will add 5hp, straight out of Max Power :lol:


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## Flashy (Nov 8, 2019)

Not interested in your pathetic attempt to derail this thread, suggest you keep your comments to yourself.


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## hakanbeyci (Dec 23, 2019)

hi all
excuse for my English
I follow the forum but this is my first post

what is your max MAF readings with oem air filter
my 2009 tts stage 1 and max MAF reading is 237 g/s
for stage 2 this value will be low
peak airflow should be roughly 0.8 times your horsepower
so for stage 2 MAF reading will be change by tuning?
Does the cold air intake increase the values more?


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## carlsicesilverTT (Jun 30, 2016)

Have a full read of this flash down to bottom of page, it may be possible to retrofit this system for the TT, the mounting is designed for the golf.

A similar air filter to the revo should also give improved driving experience.

https://www.onlyrevo.com/product-detail ... ake-system


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

Carly will wipe it for you, if he ever gets his nose out of the way :lol: :lol:


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## repsol (May 1, 2015)

Flashy said:


> Not interested in your pathetic attempt to derail this thread, suggest you keep your comments to yourself.


Have you not yet realised that this forum mainly circulates around a select bunch, your lucky to get an answer.


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## FNChaos (Nov 30, 2016)

hakanbeyci said:


> what is your max MAF readings with oem air filter
> my 2009 tts stage 1 and max MAF reading is 237 g/s
> for stage 2 this value will be low
> peak airflow should be roughly 0.8 times your horsepower
> so for stage 2 MAF reading will be change by tuning?


Your MAF does not control airflow. It simply reports the amount measured. 
The amount of air needed is controlled by your ECU with your MAF providing the feedback.

So yes, if your tuned motor requires more air, more air will be allowed to flow and your MAF reading will increase accordingly



hakanbeyci said:


> Does the cold air intake increase the values more?


No, a cold air intake will not increase the amount of airflow over that which is requested. If it did you would have no control over your fuel trim. Having access to more airflow than requested achieves nothing.

In theory, the benefit of a cold air intake is cold air is denser air and denser air contains more oxygen in a given volume. More oxygen allows you to burn more fuel. Burning more fuel produces more power...

If you could provide a source of air that was significantly colder that the air from your OEM setup there 'might' be a slight improvement in horsepower... The problem is, you aren't going to find a colder source of air than that coming from front your grill, and your OEM airbox already pulls from there...


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## Flashy (Nov 8, 2019)

repsol said:


> Flashy said:
> 
> 
> > Not interested in your pathetic attempt to derail this thread, suggest you keep your comments to yourself.
> ...


No different to most forums these days, a few decent and helpful posters, some that are negative, and the odd tool.


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## Barr_end (Oct 19, 2016)

hakanbeyci said:


> hi all
> excuse for my English
> I follow the forum but this is my first post
> 
> ...


Times by .8 is a rule well used on the TFSI platform, but has been stated this doesn't apply for a TTS due to using a larger 80mm maf housing.
I believe my peak figure is around 266 g/s and my car makes 378hp / 409ftlbs at 'stage 2+'
Math doesn't remotely work out.


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## Romani44 (Jun 14, 2018)

In my opinion a set of the highest quality tyres you can afford. Putting down as much of the power you have available possible is where you will notice the most difference, especially in cornering and from launch/1st and 2nd gear pulls.

Michelin Pilot Sport 4 or Pilot Sport 4 S if you can afford the latter.


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## Flashy (Nov 8, 2019)

Got some F1 asy 5s on and they are doing a decent job. Checked the spark plugs last night to see what had been put in for the service just before I bought the car, pleased to see some Denso Vk22 iridium. 
I think you are right about getting the power down, will look at ways to improve grip.


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## Romani44 (Jun 14, 2018)

I've been toying with the idea of a stage 1 for ages. Car is almost on 97k now but still feels solid. The only thing I worry about is the clutch.

And I reckon if I stage 1 it I will be having to get a new clutch even sooner which takes the cost up a lot.


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## Flashy (Nov 8, 2019)

Best mod I've done.


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## carlsicesilverTT (Jun 30, 2016)

Me too, don't fall for the scare mongering.

As long as not flooring it constantly in low revs in 5th and 6th gear will last at least 50K miles.


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## chriscapon (Feb 13, 2013)

FNChaos said:


> Flashy said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone have any positive changes that can be made to create the best possible stage 1 car? It seems nothing can be done to improve the car to it's best abilities
> ...


Interested to see what the RS sideskirts look like? I assumed the TTS were the same. Also how did you get the LED tail lights? Are they just bulbs as I thought the brake and sidesides worked off the same bulb, just putting a higher current through to brighten them up on braking


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## FNChaos (Nov 30, 2016)

chriscapon said:


> Interested to see what the RS sideskirts look like? I assumed the TTS were the same. Also how did you get the LED tail lights? Are they just bulbs as I thought the brake and sidesides worked off the same bulb, just putting a higher current through to brighten them up on braking


Currently my TTS is garaged & covered, but here are some pics (not mine) to give you an idea.


















Both cut from: https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/vie...=5944042&hilit=Audi+Sport+side+skirt#p5944042

IIRC, the p/n for the AudiSport side skirts is 8J00716859AX if your interested.

As far as the tail lights, I should have said reverse / back-up lights as those are the only bulbs in the tail light I changed to LEDs.. I got them (and my switchable bi-color fog lights) from a company called deAutoLED


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## Romani44 (Jun 14, 2018)

carlsicesilverTT said:


> Me too, don't fall for the scare mongering.
> 
> As long as not flooring it constantly in low revs in 5th and 6th gear will last at least 50K miles.


I worry because I think I am possibly on the original clutch.....or at least one with 50k on it already. I will be selling the car in approx 6 months or so. So not sure if I want to be lumbered with the cost of the clutch, only to sell it shortly after.


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## carlsicesilverTT (Jun 30, 2016)

Pmsl ha, clutch will last close to 200k not 50k. You said you have close to 100k miles on car, if you got it tuned to around 270 you wouldn't need a new clutch until at least 150k if you drive like most people and not like a lunatic!


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

carlsicesilverTT said:


> Pmsl ha, clutch will last close to 200k not 50k. You said you have close to 100k miles on car, if you got it tuned to around 270 you wouldn't need a new clutch until at least 150k if you drive like most people and not like a lunatic!


You really do spout some clueless shyte, I suppose you're the authority on how long pieces of string are also? :roll:


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## Flashy (Nov 8, 2019)

Mine was remapped on 78k, clutch is fine. If you're looking to sell in the next 6 months then I wouldn't bother.


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## HOGG (Mar 30, 2018)

Rufflesj said:


> You really do spout some clueless shyte, I suppose you're the authority on how long pieces of string are also? :roll:


No, that would be me. Are you buying or selling the piece of string?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Flashy (Nov 8, 2019)

HOGG said:


> Rufflesj said:
> 
> 
> > You really do spout some clueless shyte, I suppose you're the authority on how long pieces of string are also? :roll:
> ...


Neither, just making friends again.


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## FNChaos (Nov 30, 2016)

Romani44 said:


> I've been toying with the idea of a stage 1 for ages. Car is almost on 97k now but still feels solid. The only thing I worry about is the clutch.
> 
> And I reckon if I stage 1 it I will be having to get a new clutch even sooner which takes the cost up a lot.


If you are planning to sell in 6 months, why bother with Stage1? You won't get your money back, and there is a good chance you'll actually reduce the desirability / selling price of the car.

Also, you can't use mileage to determine clutch life. Clutch life is determined by how hard it is used (and abused)


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

HOGG said:


> Rufflesj said:
> 
> 
> > You really do spout some clueless shyte, I suppose you're the authority on how long pieces of string are also? :roll:
> ...


I have no clue what you're on about.......


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

FNChaos said:


> Romani44 said:
> 
> 
> > I've been toying with the idea of a stage 1 for ages. Car is almost on 97k now but still feels solid. The only thing I worry about is the clutch.
> ...


Exactly, Carly seems to invent his own component timeframes and proceed to lead the blind whilst he himself is navigating around with a white stick and a golden retriever :lol:


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## Romani44 (Jun 14, 2018)

FNChaos said:


> Romani44 said:
> 
> 
> > I've been toying with the idea of a stage 1 for ages. Car is almost on 97k now but still feels solid. The only thing I worry about is the clutch.
> ...


Desirability was another reason. I realise most people don't buy a car which they think has been abused. Thanks got the information Chaos.


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## carlsicesilverTT (Jun 30, 2016)

Yep, that's why I didn't get a TTS as more chance of it been abused


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

carlsicesilverTT said:


> Yep, that's why I didn't get a TTS as more chance of it been abused


 :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## Romani44 (Jun 14, 2018)

I was also reading that in doing a stage 1 you likely increase intake temperatures. Allegedly to a temperature at the limit of what is manageable?

If that is correct then my understanding is an intercooler would be something to consider pairing with the tune.


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## carlsicesilverTT (Jun 30, 2016)

Romani44 said:


> I will be completely honest, Desirability doesn't come into play with regards your car as it isnt of any value, a remap will infact attract more interest for a car of yours in terms of age and value.
> 
> I'm not saying a remap doesn't reduce the longevity of parts on the car, however, for most people they do it with intention of selling car in 2/3 years time. That is 3 years of more fun driving and then when it comes to selling, either take map off or sell as is, wont make any difference to how much you get for the car.
> 
> ...


I will be completely honest, Desirability doesn't come into play with regards your car as it isnt of any value, a remap will infact attract more interest for a car of yours in terms of age and value

I'm not saying a remap doesn't reduce the longevity of parts on the car, however, for most people they do it with intention of selling car in 2/3 years time. That is 3 years of more fun driving and then when it comes to selling, either take map off or sell as is, wont make any difference to how much you get for the car.

p.s not heard of intercooler or any parts in fact that need changing after a map, I changed coil packs and spark plugs, thats it, a routine service.

You obviously have decided to sell car in 6 months so a stage 1 tune is pointless, therefore you will come up with all the non existent reasons under the sun to convince yourself you haven't missed out on tuning your car up.

This forum should be about advice on how to install modifications and how to fix faults and new parts not all this rubbish talk. No wonder so many people have left this forum over the years.


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## Flashy (Nov 8, 2019)

Yep, not many enthusiasts interested in modding on here. Shame really.


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## FNChaos (Nov 30, 2016)

carlsicesilverTT said:


> This forum should be about advice on how to install modifications and how to fix faults and new parts not all this rubbish talk. No wonder so many people have left this forum over the years.





Flashy said:


> Yep, not many enthusiasts interested in modding on here. Shame really.


There are plenty of mods that can be done and this forum has tons of info if you look. However, blindly bolting on 'ricer' crap does not make one an enthusiast.

Simple solution. Rather than take and complain, enroll in a few automotive courses (and maybe a few physics and engineering courses while you are at it), buy some books on performance tuning, start doing all of your own maintenance and repairs, then come back with real world experience (not internet lore) and help others.


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## Flashy (Nov 8, 2019)

It's about sharing knowledge and experience, preferably without dissing every mod someone is asking about. I have plenty of car modding experience, just not with this car or it's platform. Something positive would be nice.


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

carlsicesilverTT said:


> I didn't get a TTS as I couldn't afford one


Fixed that for you :lol:


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

FNChaos said:


> carlsicesilverTT said:
> 
> 
> > This forum should be about advice on how to install modifications and how to fix faults and new parts not all this rubbish talk. No wonder so many people have left this forum over the years.
> ...


+1


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## Barr_end (Oct 19, 2016)

Rufflesj said:


> FNChaos said:
> 
> 
> > carlsicesilverTT said:
> ...


There's 2, 25+ page build threads that certainly throw enough mods and information around to give you more than a basic understanding of TT's :lol:


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## Flashy (Nov 8, 2019)

Yep, I've been reading through them. Useful.


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