# TTOC and this forum.



## les

I was chatting to a fellow member of the TTOC and a regular poster on here and the conversation turned to the membership and just what you get for your £30 annual membership fee. Now don't get me wrong I am happy to pay the membership fee as I have for the past 3 years. However what I find a bit hard to swallow is that there are a lot of members on here who are not members of the TTOC. They pay nothing but get a lot out of it. I know a lot of sites where if you are not a paying member of the body you can' read on their forum or if you can read you certainly can't post on it. I also wonder has anybody ever worked out what the percentage on non TTOC members are on here? :?

So for your £30 annual fee what do you get that a non TTOC member gets on here.? I can think of but 3 things. The magazine ((great magazine it is too) which consists of just 4 issues at a cost of £7-50p each. We get voting rights at the annual general meeting and you can become a committee member if you are voted in. Now I have to say unless I am missing something that don't add up to a right lot.  
More examples of what non TTOC peeps on her get. They get to go on cruises and meets, can take advantages of group buys, they can ask questions and get help. They can buy and sell items in fact they get everything a paying member gets apart from the above.

I wonder should this forum only be open to paying members of the TTOC and if I recall right (forgive me if I am wrong) some of our membership fee goes towards the running and upkeep for this forum? So what do you recon am I being a bit too touchy over this and it all fair?

Over to you.


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## triplefan

Unbelievable post.....................

If you check the web address, this site is the ********, not the TTOC-Forum

You don't like it, you know where not to come, and this reminds me why I haven't joined the TTOC


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## Guest

Unbelievable cheek! It's fine if you want to pay for it, but i certainly don't feel this forum warrants a fee!


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## sTTranger

your post in the mk1 forum is locked, it didnt even occur to me until i just read your post that my membership had run out last month, and to be honest Im really finding it hard to find a reason to sign up again :?

I didnt know that this website and the ttoc were one and the same.


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## TTQ2K2

Les, relax and have a pint.


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## stevebeechTA

I must admit i did wonder this myself, purley to raise fund for the ttoc and for the for sale part but then i herd that the forum and ttoc were separate entities but now become one. I am not that fussed realy to be honest, i do got a ttoc sticker for mi car  and you forgot one thing a ttoc avatar thing :lol:


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## mrgoodcat

Hi Les, to be honest mate I thought the magazine, badges etc was worth the £30 quid, some non members post useful info on the forum so it is a two way thing. However, I've not been on here very long so I'm probably not qualified to comment.


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## Hoggy

Hi, As has been said the TTF & TTOC are totally seperate  suprising I know, but that how it has been. None of the TTOC subs contribute to the TTF. IMO the TTF is worth more than the TTOC. This has been well discussed in the past & did lead to other Forums, but they didn't survive. I would be willing to pay for the TTF.
Hoggy.


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## scoTTy32

les said:


> I
> 
> So for your £30 annual fee what do you get that a non TTOC member gets on here.? I can think of but 3 things. The magazine ((great magazine it is too) which consists of just 4 issues at a cost of £7-50p each. We get voting rights at the annual general meeting and you can become a committee member if you are voted in. Now I have to say unless I am missing something that don't add up to a right lot.


You are right, it doesn't and that's why I let my membership lapse. Got my last post on a similar subject locked by Nem for daring to criticise the TTOC btw!


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## Matchu

mrgoodcat said:


> Hi Les, to be honest mate I thought the magazine, badges etc was worth the £30 quid, some non members post useful info on the forum so it is a two way thing.


Agreed.


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## rustyintegrale

I hear what you're saying Les but the TTF is separate from the TTOC. There is an affiliation between the two but that is it as far as I know... :wink:

Cheers

rich


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## T3RBO

I can somewhat see your point Les but the forum and club only got brought together fully last December, and in my opinion the club wouldn't be so popular if it wasn't for the forum so tough one to call

Due to my location it's only the magazine I really get out of it, but I am happy to pay money to have the privilege to say I'm a TT owners club member and display the logo with pride


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## TTQ2K2

Les, just a quick reminder of what you TTOC membership dues get you...
*Membership



Anyone can join the TTOC by buying a pack from our online shop.

Along with your membership pack, which has your first copy of absoluTTe, you'll receive window stickers and business cards to pass on to others owners, along with your individually named and numbered membership card. This card entitles you to a host of member discounts from TT parts and accessory suppliers. And, on the subject of savings, you'll also receive our current range of vouchers, entitling you to various one-off deals from our partners. Click here for a list of current savings.

On the social scene, you get discounted entry to our National Event, which sees hundreds of TTs from around the country get together to enjoy a day out, with track events, Audi and TT supplier presence, competitions, raffles and giveaways. If once a year isn't quite enough for you, our regional reps get together for smaller gatherings throughout the year. Not only are we a great social club, but that social circle will bring you access to a wealth of TT knowledge.

Buy a membership pack. Click here

Click to expand...

*Everyone pays the same fee for TT forum access. Zero, Zip, Nada. If you feel you've overpaid, perhaps you should resign.

cheers.


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## dooka

I'm not a TTOC member, also I no longer have a TT, but I feel that I give input to this forum, my knowledge and experience on subjects posted..

I see your point to an extent, but as stated, this the ********, and Not TTOC Forum..

Maybe I shoiuld start charging every time I answer a question for someone, or give out advice..


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## TT_Tesh

I think its equal. Its up to you if you join the TTOC and want to actually contribute finacially but others may simply contribute technical help. Yes there are some ppl who just come on to sell and contribute nothing but that's life.

I think if we want to make the TTOC popular perhaps introduce a greater incentive to join like discounts to selected partners or access to certain parts of the site.

Frankly I love being part of the TTOC and even if I got nothing I would be a member because I get lots of help and have met fantastic ppl here and for 30 pounds its well worth it.

Cheers


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## les

TTQ2K2 said:


> Les, just a quick reminder of what you TTOC membership dues get you...
> *Membership
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone can join the TTOC by buying a pack from our online shop.
> 
> Along with your membership pack, which has your first copy of absoluTTe, you'll receive window stickers and business cards to pass on to others owners, along with your individually named and numbered membership card. This card entitles you to a host of member discounts from TT parts and accessory suppliers. And, on the subject of savings, you'll also receive our current range of vouchers, entitling you to various one-off deals from our partners. Click here for a list of current savings.
> 
> On the social scene, you get discounted entry to our National Event, which sees hundreds of TTs from around the country get together to enjoy a day out, with track events, Audi and TT supplier presence, competitions, raffles and giveaways. If once a year isn't quite enough for you, our regional reps get together for smaller gatherings throughout the year. Not only are we a great social club, but that social circle will bring you access to a wealth of TT knowledge.
> 
> Buy a membership pack. Click here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Everyone pays the same fee for TT forum access. Zero, Zip, Nada. If you feel you've overpaid, perhaps you should resign.
> 
> cheers.


 I think you should read what I wrote properly not what you appeared to have thought I wrote :roll:


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## TTitan

the Status Quo is good == I feel the magazine & the ability to support the annual national event with my annual dues is value for the money.

The forum is good as is -- an international brotherhood & sisterhood of TT owners or other interested parties. no fee please.

I thank those who volunteer for the sometimes thank-less jobs on the TTOC committee -- respect to you.

Jim


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## rustyintegrale

To be fair to the TTOC, apart from the magazine (which is miles better than it used to be just 2 years ago), they organise the National event once a year (a big undertaking) and already offer discounts from various suppliers, a range of merchandising (not to my taste but might be to yours) and support to owners in other ways.

But it's an individual choice. If you go to a lot of TTOC meets, use TTOC endorsed suppliers and like wearing TTOC branded clothing then it's a winner because of the savings on offer.

If you don't, then don't join. The TTF is free and to my mind an invaluable resource that I use every single day. 

Cheers

rich


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## Wallsendmag

The TTF and the TTOC work together but are totally seperate. We do not contribute towards the running of this forum and the forum doesn't contribute towards club funds. The membership fees haven't gone up for a while now and to be honest after paying for absoluTTe they don't leave us with an awful lot to play with. The club offers discounts to it's members which we are adding to all the time only this week another deal has been arranged all the details can be see on the TTOC site. Last year was a very rough year for the club and we are just starting to stand on our feet again the clothing range has just been revamped and we have already announced the venue for evenTT 10. For an all volunteer workforce I don't think we do too bad , obviously if you disagree make your thoughts known and we'll try to address them.


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## TT_Tesh

Ill soon be purchasing some TTOC merch soon. Trying to get my gf to like the forum as she always asks about it!

Love it and if there is any TT about I always look for the proud TTOC badge !


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## rustyintegrale

wallsendmag said:


> Last year was a very rough year for the club and we are just starting to stand on our feet


And all credit to you guys for turning it around. 

For one reason or another I was privy to what you all took on, so now I can tell everyone - you were a lot braver than me. 

Cheers

Rich


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## les

Ermm nobody enjoys the TTOC and this forum more than me and i'm not bemoaning paying £30 a year for the privilege. I also think the mag is great as I have stated. I am simply asking others views on this forum, membership of the TTOC and what people thought and get out of it. I do wish people wouldn't read into things not there or try and twist what I have said. I also think those who know me know I am very active on here and have done a group buy and am also very active on the TTOC as a member. I have have contributed to the magazine with articles, arranged meets and cruises so please do me a favour :roll:


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## triplefan

Les, your quotes

"However what I find a bit hard to swallow is that there are a lot of members on here who are not members of the TTOC"

"They pay nothing but get a lot out of it. I know a lot of sites where if you are not a paying member of the body you can' read on their forum or if you can read you certainly can't post on it"

"They get to go on cruises and meets, can take advantages of group buys, they can ask questions and get help. They can buy and sell items in fact they get everything a paying member gets apart from the above."

Followed by......................"I wonder should this forum only be open to paying members of the TTOC"

How can we not assume that you think this forum (which is nothing to do with the TTOC) should only be available to paying members of the TTOC?

Stop accusing people of not reading correctly what you wrote, be a man, admit you made a mistake and apologise, .


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## Mark Davies

wallsendmag said:


> The club offers discounts to it's members which we are adding to all the time only this week another deal has been arranged all the details can be see on the TTOC site.


Yes, but then I noticed this week one of those suppliers offering that discount to all *forum* members, publishing a discount code on this site that anybody could use. So it seems you even get the discounts without being a member.

I don't think Les was for a moment suggesting people should be charged to use the forum - but in typical forum fashion people will jump all over him for something they thought he said. I think the point is, with it being possible to get virtually everything that club membership offers simply by being on this forum the TTOC really needs to take care that they are actually giving something value added for the membership. If all you are really getting for your £30 membership is 4 copies of the magazine (which you can buy from the TTOC site for £3 each - less than half the price) then it's no surprise that quite a few people are saying, "Why bother?". Should we really be relying on people spending their money just for the kudos of having the badge? And then, once you've got the badge, why renew at all?

The Forum and the TTOC may be separate entities but there's no doubting they are intrinsically inter-twined now - almost to the point that there's very little distinction. I don't think the Forum should be changed in any way but I do think Les has a very pertinent point and the TTOC needs to look at what it's really offering that can't be had just by being on the Forum. And Les shouldn't be criticised for that - he's paid his membership year after year and his commitment to the club therefore isn't in question. He's making the point for the sake of the club he's a member of. We all want to see the club grow and prosper, but if the members it attracts don't keep up with their membership for lack of anything they haven't already got then the club won't survive.

Will it?


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## freegeek

OK, so they are separate entities, so I would then ask two separate questions, one are you happy to pay for membership to the TTOC, and would you be willing to pay for a subscription to the Forun to help with its upkeep.

For me its yes to the first, as I feel that I will be into the TT for the long term.

For the second, well I expect that the TT furum makes money for its owners out of the users (through advetising)???, so on one level I would say no, however it does provide a valuable service so is worth something and has a value. Introducing a fee would probably keep some of the tw*ts off the forum, but I believe would also enevitably end up killing it. So I think the forum should not have a fee.


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## cyberface

the MR2 forum i used to use had the forums open, but the technical forums were locked unless you paid £5 a year! which seemed like a good deal to me


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## les

Mark Davies said:


> wallsendmag said:
> 
> 
> 
> The club offers discounts to it's members which we are adding to all the time only this week another deal has been arranged all the details can be see on the TTOC site.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but then I noticed this week one of our regular suppliers offering that discount to all *forum* members, publishing a discount code on the site that anybody could use. So it seems you even get the discounts without being a member.
> 
> I don't think Les was for a moment suggesting people should be charged to use the forum - but in typical forum fashion people will jump all over him for something they thought he said. I think the point is, with it being possible to get virtually everything that club membership offers simply by being on this forum the TTOC really needs to take care that they are actually giving something value added for the membership. If all you are really getting for your £30 membership is 4 copies of the magazine (which you can buy from the TTOC site for £3 each - less than half the price) then it's no surprise that quite a few people are saying, "Why bother?". Should we really be relying on people spending their money just for the kudos of having the badge? And then, once you've got the badge, why renew at all?
> 
> The Forum and the TTOC may be separate entities but there's no doubting they are intrinsically inter-twined now - almost to the point that there's very little distinction. I don't think the Forum should be changed in any way but I do think Les has a very pertinent point and the TTOC needs to look at what it's really offering that can't be had just by being on the Forum. And Les shouldn't be criticised for that - he's paid his membership year after year and his commitment to the club therefore isn't in question. He's making the point for the sake of the club he's a member of. We all want to see the club grow and prosper, but if the members it attracts don't keep up with their membership for lack of anything they haven't already got then the club won't survive.
> 
> Will it?
Click to expand...

 Thanks Mark my sentiments exactly.


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## les

triplefan said:


> Les, your quotes
> 
> "However what I find a bit hard to swallow is that there are a lot of members on here who are not members of the TTOC"
> 
> "They pay nothing but get a lot out of it. I know a lot of sites where if you are not a paying member of the body you can' read on their forum or if you can read you certainly can't post on it"
> 
> "They get to go on cruises and meets, can take advantages of group buys, they can ask questions and get help. They can buy and sell items in fact they get everything a paying member gets apart from the above."
> 
> Followed by......................"I wonder should this forum only be open to paying members of the TTOC"
> 
> How can we not assume that you think this forum (which is nothing to do with the TTOC) should only be available to paying members of the TTOC?
> 
> Stop accusing people of not reading correctly what you wrote, be a man, admit you made a mistake and apologise, .


 "I wonder should this forum only be open to paying members of the TTOC and if I recall right (forgive me if I am wrong) some of our membership fee goes towards the running and upkeep for this forum?" That was aimed more as a question and you missed off ( forgive me if I am wrong) If anybody should apologise it should be you Quoting me out of context there. This was meant as a debate. I have no intention to apologising to your with your attitude as above. Your being mischievous with your post and Mark has summed what I was getting at very well.

I do apologise thought for not been sure how this forum and the TTOC relate to each other and I am glad that's cleared up. I notice this is sub forum is about the TTOC at least I am a member :wink:


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## TTCool

Well Les, I paid my £30 because I thought it was the decent thing to do. The whole combined 'club' as it were seems good value to me. I'm not a person who takes advantage of 'owt for nowt'.

Joe


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## les

TTCool said:


> Well Les, I paid my £30 because I thought it was the decent thing to do. The whole combined 'club' as it were seems good value to me. I'm not a person who takes advantage of 'owt for nowt'.
> 
> Joe


 Of course your not Joe and I agree I also think its the decent thing to do but I doubt those who decide not to join the TTOC would agree with us :wink:


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## Mark Davies

TTCool said:


> Well Les, I paid my £30 because I thought it was the decent thing to do. The whole combined 'club' as it were seems good value to me. I'm not a person who takes advantage of 'owt for nowt'.


And there are plenty of us who have, but I don't think that's a commercial strategy on which the club can rely on going forward.

Wallsendmag made the point that at the moment the membership fees barely cover the costs of producing the magazine. That is perhaps an issue that needs to be addressed. We should be examining two things:

1) How many members who buy a first year membership fail to renew after that?
2) How many regular contributers to the Forum and regular attendees at meets are not TTOC members?

If these are in significant numbers then we need to ask why? We need to find out how we can persuade more people to contribute.

I think we will find that the ******** is perversely in competition with the TTOC, because it is providing a perfectly servicable alternative all on its own - for free. The ******** virtually *is* the TTOC in everything but name.

The solution is not to start charging for the Forum nor to insist you have to be a TTOC member to use it. The solution is for the TTOC to set itself apart and provide something _tangible_ that is exclusive and can only be had from being a member. Discounts are all well and good, but it does the club a dis-service when those agreeing to provide members with a discount (Forge in this case) go on to just offer the same to everybody anyway.


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## Love_iTT

rustyintegrale said:


> To be fair to the TTOC, apart from the magazine (which is miles better than it used to be just 2 years ago...


Cheers Rich, much appreciated, that's made me feel so much better! That's made me feel that for about 18 months, working to god knows what time in the mornings, organising the print and all the other 'stuff' (that you especially know what goes on in producing artwork and print) and all for totally free of charge from my point - all so worthwhile. Free of charge because I wanted to contribute something to the TTOC. I know I'm not the best designer in the world - far from it - but at least I managed to get something out to the punters while other designers wanted paying for doing it. This freed up cash for other things the TTOC could do.

Anyway, I guess I now know for sure from your comments that my time producing absolutte was a complete and utter waste of time then. Cheers mate.

Graham


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## TTCool

Mark Davies said:


> TTCool said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well Les, I paid my £30 because I thought it was the decent thing to do. The whole combined 'club' as it were seems good value to me. I'm not a person who takes advantage of 'owt for nowt'.
> 
> 
> 
> And there are plenty of us who have, but I don't think that's a commercial strategy on which the club can rely on going forward.
> 
> Wallsendmag made the point that at the moment the membership fees barely cover the costs of producing the magazine. That is perhaps an issue that needs to be addressed. We should be examining two things:
> 
> 1) How many members who buy a first year membership fail to renew after that?
> 2) How many regular contributers to the Forum and regular attendees at meets are not TTOC members?
> 
> If these are in significant numbers then we need to ask why? We need to find out how we can persuade more people to contribute.
> 
> I think we will find that the ******** is perversely in competition with the TTOC, because it is providing a perfectly servicable alternative all on its own - for free. The ******** virtually *is* the TTOC in everything but name.
> 
> The solution is not to start charging for the Forum nor to insist you have to be a TTOC member to use it. The solution is for the TTOC to set itself apart and provide something _tangible_ that is exclusive and can only be had from being a member. Discounts are all well and good, but it does the club a dis-service when those agreeing to provide members with a discount (Forge in this case) go on to just offer the same to everybody anyway.
Click to expand...

'Owt for Nowt' it is then.

Joe


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## Mark Davies

TTCool said:


> 'Owt for Nowt' it is then.
> 
> Joe


Joe, just what is the point you are trying to make with that? Seriously, please elaborate.


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## silveraudi225

This post is hilarious


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## TTCool

Mark Davies said:


> TTCool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 'Owt for Nowt' it is then.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> 
> Joe, just what is the point you are trying to make with that? Seriously, please elaborate.
Click to expand...

The point, so far as I'm concerned, is that I expect to pay for something I receive regardless of the ins and outs of the organisation.

Joe


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## les

Mark Davies said:


> TTCool said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well Les, I paid my £30 because I thought it was the decent thing to do. The whole combined 'club' as it were seems good value to me. I'm not a person who takes advantage of 'owt for nowt'.
> 
> 
> 
> And there are plenty of us who have, but I don't think that's a commercial strategy on which the club can rely on going forward.
> 
> Wallsendmag made the point that at the moment the membership fees barely cover the costs of producing the magazine. That is perhaps an issue that needs to be addressed. We should be examining two things:
> 
> 1) How many members who buy a first year membership fail to renew after that?
> 2) How many regular contributers to the Forum and regular attendees at meets are not TTOC members?
> 
> If these are in significant numbers then we need to ask why? We need to find out how we can persuade more people to contribute.
> 
> I think we will find that the ******** is perversely in competition with the TTOC, because it is providing a perfectly servicable alternative all on its own - for free. The ******** virtually *is* the TTOC in everything but name.
> 
> The solution is not to start charging for the Forum nor to insist you have to be a TTOC member to use it. The solution is for the TTOC to set itself apart and provide something _tangible_ that is exclusive and can only be had from being a member. Discounts are all well and good, but it does the club a dis-service when those agreeing to provide members with a discount (Forge in this case) go on to just offer the same to everybody anyway.
Click to expand...

What a great post Mark and I fully endorse all you have said. You have put it so much better than I ever could (I failed GCE English   ) Instead of running in tandem with this forum the TTOC is in a way in competition to a certain degree IMO except there is little competition when one is free. Sure some will join here and then via here will join the TTOC. Maybe we could have some figures as to how many on here are TTOC members and as you say ask why aren't they members of the TTOC. Is it the fee after all or is the TTOC not attractive as it is to them? Does the TTOC not offer VFM to them? I see lots of non TTOC members at meets, cruises and taking full advantage of SOME of the things the TTOC has to offer without having to pay towards it. I will continue to pay my subs and support the TTOC because its the right thing to do IMO. I will continue to do whatever I can to help the TTOC but I do think there needs to be some serious thinking if finances are so tight when they really shouldn't be at all.


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## les

matt9238 said:


> This post is hilarious


It would be as a non TTOC member now wouldn't it :wink:


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## tony_rigby_uk

Ok first up...... let me say i do understand where les is coming from.. and do think no ill intentions were made.. As for marks summing up that rather does explain the situation.. On the flip side of the coin i think that the TTOC owes alot to the TTF with regard to getting new members.. Therefore i do belive a charge would be detrimental to both the TTOC & TTF..

on the subject of the membership fees for TT.. I think personally it is a preference.. Yes if you do sit and work out the advantages then there is little in my opinion... And i hate to say this but i think the TTF has more chance of making a TTF mag and TTF badges than the TTOC does for making a forum.. But thats besides the point.. Think the main thing to note is what do you actually say to new members to get them to communicate.. I personally think it's the TTF.. Therefore i think the TTOC calling cards we are given to give new members are a little lost on directing people to the TTOC website... yes there is a small link to the TTF on the left... But surly this isn't enough.. communication is the key to getting new members and that's via the TTF once there here and active you can then get TTOC membership.... Perhaps this should be looked at on the next batch of calling cards.... Perhaps... Maybe the TTF can have a tap at the top directing to the TTOC direct without losing the interface or opening a new window... i know this will probably be frowned upon but all i'm thinking of is the flow of people/traffic...

In my opinion all i have to do is look at my favourtes and history of my web browser... It's all TTF and very little if any TTOC.. As said think the TTOC relies more on the TTF than the TTF relies on the TTOC....

Another point is around discounts... I know that group buys that are organised are also available to TTF members.. Granted this is unusual compared to other clubs as usually it's membership card dependant when you get to the shops.. But how do the TTOC communicate their group buys... Using the TTF.. Usually the companies involved in the group buys are also on here... (for example awesome gti) meaning the blueflame offer was to everyone...TTF or TTOC... Which does beg the question whats the advantages of membership..

As for events... Some of the best are TTF organised and not TTOC.. Just look at the italy trip.. Has the TTOC done anything like that? Using a commercial marketing thinking and offering cheaper prices for members than non members... Meaning you'd pay to join the club as it's cheaper to do that than pay the non member price.. Therefore boosting member numbers...

i'm an active member on the TTF and TTOC and still wouldn't like to think that a TTOC member wouldn't let me join a cruise if i wasn't a TTOC member... As this would punish the club... I do think all this is give and take/swings and roundabouts... My only comment is the relationship between the 2 could possibly benefit from strengthening on both sides.. As for the TTOC what else can they offer? think it's a case of stuck between a rock and a hardplace...


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## shell

I'll fully admit to being a non paying member.....probably due to not owning a TT personally although Shell does......but I hope I make up for it by help & advice that I give other users whether they are paying members or not, but seeing as this isnt the official TTOC site it shouldnt matter how I contribute really!!!

I'll also admit that I had no idea that the TTOC had a separate forum/website as I though this was it- just done a search and found it anyway!!! 

Lee


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## Mark Davies

TTCool said:


> The point, so far as I'm concerned, is that I expect to pay for something I receive regardless of the ins and outs of the organisation.


Which is good enough for you, and me and for Les. But I think you're missing the point. The TTOC is struggling, financially - so unless the 3 of us are prepared to stand all the costs between us then perhaps we ought to be thinking about sorting it out. Don't you think?

We can all clap ourselves on the back and say how wonderfully altruistic we are but it will have done none of us any good when the club has disappeared down the pan for lack of members and funds. You seem to be knocking us through some misguided perception that we're complaining about not getting value for money. No - we are not. You're sort of missing the salient point - like you, *we renew our membership anyway*. What we are doing is pointing out a possible reason why the TTOC does not have as many paying members as perhaps it could have. We are not complaining - we're trying to open a debate so the club can find a way to move on and grow.

The simple fact of the matter is that there are over 20,000 registered users of ******** but less than 2000 paying members of TTOC - considerably less, I imagine. So why are all these users of the Forum not joining the club and how can we better encourage them to do so? Well, I think the answer is blatantly obvious - all the people who don't join the TTOC look at what they already get from the Forum and think, "Well, what's the point?"

Because ******** is already a fully functioning TT owners club in itself (indeed, is a vital and intrinsic part of the operation of TTOC, but open to all) then actual TTOC memberships needs to offer something more. I think it seems fairly obvious, really.


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## TTCool

Mark, don't use one word where two will do :lol: I'm happy about my position. If you want to exercise your entrepreneurial expertise, please do so. I have nothing more to say on this matter, hopefully.

Joe


----------



## dzTT

tony_rigby_uk said:


> Ok first up...... let me say i do understand where les is coming from.. and do think no ill intentions were made.. As for marks summing up that rather does explain the situation.. On the flip side of the coin i think that the TTOC owes alot to the TTF with regard to getting new members.. Therefore i do belive a charge would be detrimental to both the TTOC & TTF..
> 
> on the subject of the membership fees for TT.. I think personally it is a preference.. Yes if you do sit and work out the advantages then there is little in my opinion... And i hate to say this but i think the TTF has more chance of making a TTF mag and TTF badges than the TTOC does for making a forum.. But thats besides the point.. Think the main thing to note is what do you actually say to new members to get them to communicate.. I personally think it's the TTF.. Therefore i think the TTOC calling cards we are given to give new members are a little lost on directing people to the TTOC website... yes there is a small link to the TTF on the left... But surly this isn't enough.. communication is the key to getting new members and that's via the TTF once there here and active you can then get TTOC membership.... Perhaps this should be looked at on the next batch of calling cards.... Perhaps... Maybe the TTF can have a tap at the top directing to the TTOC direct without losing the interface or opening a new window... i know this will probably be frowned upon but all i'm thinking of is the flow of people/traffic...
> 
> In my opinion all i have to do is look at my favourtes and history of my web browser... It's all TTF and very little if any TTOC.. As said think the TTOC relies more on the TTF than the TTF relies on the TTOC....
> 
> Another point is around discounts... I know that group buys that are organised are also available to TTF members.. Granted this is unusual compared to other clubs as usually it's membership card dependant when you get to the shops.. But how do the TTOC communicate their group buys... Using the TTF.. Usually the companies involved in the group buys are also on here... (for example awesome gti) meaning the blueflame offer was to everyone...TTF or TTOC... Which does beg the question whats the advantages of membership..
> 
> As for events... Some of the best are TTF organised and not TTOC.. Just look at the italy trip.. Has the TTOC done anything like that? Using a commercial marketing thinking and offering cheaper prices for members than non members... Meaning you'd pay to join the club as it's cheaper to do that than pay the non member price.. Therefore boosting member numbers...
> 
> i'm an active member on the TTF and TTOC and still wouldn't like to think that a TTOC member wouldn't let me join a cruise if i wasn't a TTOC member... As this would punish the club... I do think all this is give and take/swings and roundabouts... My only comment is the relationship between the 2 could possibly benefit from strengthening on both sides.. As for the TTOC what else can they offer? think it's a case of stuck between a rock and a hardplace...


well said. i agree with pretty much everythin there.
i know the TTOC have the discounts from places but none are close enough to me to be of any use. as for meets im happy to pay for going to these. the only thing id really get out of being in the TTOC would be the magazine and the badge....saying that i may still join the TTOC in the near future


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## les

For those who don't know then this is the TTOC web site.
http://www.ttoc.co.uk/website/

Now apart from bits and bobs about the mag and merchandise there's not a lot else really. I hardly ever go on it and I would guess many of the TTOC members don't either. Of course you would be forgiven for preferring to go on here given the wealth of information, news, help and group buys etc etc. before they changed it I did a few posts on there but was guided to here as I was told there is little activity and is it any wonder. This "sub" forum is called the TT Owners club and yet it hardly is as its a free for all available to members and non members a like. You can't post on the TTOC web site anymore and its more page to inform people of the TTOC.


----------



## Hev

I think it all boils down to how much value YOU put on the club.

I've been part of the TT Forum for nearly 5 years and The TTOC for a slightly less period of time and I value both very highly.

Firstly, Can I just point out that some members of TTOC do not actually use the TT Forum  ....I have had people turn up to a meet and they DID NOT find out about it via TT Forum.

As has already been clarified, the TT Forum has never had any financial contribution from TTOC and vice versa. Jae (TT Forum) started the forum when he was a TT owner and the forum evolved from that point....I cannot put my hand-on-heart and say exactly what the money situation with the forum is, all I know is that Jae heavily relies on advertisers. Some of those advertisers decide to offer discounts to forum users and that is their business. As for the TTOC, similar suppliers (after all, the TT is a common theme) offer discounts to TTOC members - again that is their prerogative. I know of one supplier in particular that will request your TTOC membership number and have it validated in order for you to receive TTOC discount. You surely cannot hold the club responsible for exactly what discounts are offered to TTOC members and TT Forum users?

I agree that when it comes to meets, both TT Forum and TTOC members benefit. I would never dream of turning someone away from a meet just because they did not have TTOC membership. But I will actively encourage all attending to join the TTOC....some people I've been banging over the head for a significant period of time  (sa|nt will testify to that!).

Maybe the way forward from this discussion is asking the question 'What would make the TTOC value for money for you?'. If you pay for 3 years up front, it costs you £20 per year.....(£25 per year if you do each year at a time), what do you want for your money? In my book, the magazine on its own is worth that! Each issue has loads of useful information and as an added bonus, when I open it, I love to see people I know and can can friends (how many glossy mags can do that for you? ) (btw, Graham, if you are still reading this, I think you did a fantastic job as designer for the magazine! - you set the standard and now it continues to grow )



dzTT said:


> as for meets im happy to pay for going to these. the only thing id really get out of being in the TTOC would be the magazine and the badge....saying that i may still join the TTOC in the near future


Just you wait until the next meet :twisted: 

Les ~ I cannot help but notice that you have posted a link in Off Topic to this thread......was that really necessary? It may not have been intentional, but I have taken that that, this whole thread and your posting in the North West Rep one as taking a big wooden spoon and stirring. I apologise if that is not how it was intended.

Hev x


----------



## TT_Tesh

If marketing and publishing costs are high then drop me a pm as I know lots of people who could offer lower prices.

Always worth a shot.

Agree that the TTOC needs to offer a tangible product to differenciate it self to the TTF.

New members will ensure a future but we should never forget the effort the comittee put into and have put into it in the past!


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## jammyd

We could offer you TTOC only meets? if we did we would be offering you the opportuity to come to arranged outings with all the proper precautions taken and requirements covered. But if we do this, the TTOC would be called "elitist" and we would get a hounding from people. It is also worth nothing that if we did this, and we complied with all the regulations set out by the MSA, as soon as a non member turns up these guidelines would be blown out of the water.


----------



## les

Hev said:


> Les ~ I cannot help but notice that you have posted a link in Off Topic to this thread......was that really necessary? It may not have been intentional, but I have taken that that, this whole thread and your posting in the North West Rep one as taking a big wooden spoon and stirring. I apologise if that is not how it was intended.
> 
> Hev x


 Hev... not intended in the slightest. I posted that in other forums as many TTOC members who would want to contribute would miss it as many do not visit here as much as other forums. I wasn't exactly sure what forum to post it in as either as I also wanted non TTOC members to have their say and many of them I thought wouldn't visit the TTOC forum. Please explain what you mean by "and your posting in the North West rep" and its relationship to this thread. Are you in anyway suggesting my posts on that are in some way stirring things I do hope not as I would resent such an accusation. I apologize if I have that wrong but welcome your explanation. Thanks.


----------



## dzTT

:lol: cant wait hev :wink:

i have a question mite be obvious but i would like to kno anyway...is everything associated with the TTOC (i.e. the website, the magazine etc) done by members of the TTOC or do third parties have involvement in this?


----------



## Wallsendmag

dzTT said:


> :lol: cant wait hev :wink:
> 
> i have a question mite be obvious but i would like to kno anyway...is everything associated with the TTOC (i.e. the website, the magazine etc) done by members of the TTOC or do third parties have involvement in this?


The site is maintained and the mag is written and edited by ourselves. But we have to pay for a designer ( Graham your mags were great don't listen to anyone who says otherwise.) and obviously for them to be printed. We also print our own membership cards.


----------



## Hev

les said:


> Hev... not intended in the slightest. I posted that in other forums as many TTOC members who would want to contribute would miss it as many do not visit here as much as other forums. I wasn't exactly sure what forum to post it in as either as I also wanted non TTOC members to have their say and many of them I thought wouldn't visit the TTOC forum.


Fair enough - the thread title does not really give any indication as to the content and the content itself is just a link - to me that looked like you are trying to 'trick' (and I use that word only because I can't think of a more suitable expression) people into viewing the thread and gaining maximum exposure. I suppose that this is the problem with the written word...what is intended by the writer is not always read by the reader :?



les said:


> Please explain what you mean by "and your posting in the North West rep" and its relationship to this thread. Are you in anyway suggesting my posts on that are in some way stirring things I do hope not as I would resent such an accusation. I apologize if I have that wrong but welcome your explanation. Thanks.


Both these threads have started in a rather short space of time (I know you did not start the other one) but again I think what has been taken by me as a reader is that you are seriously down-heartened by the TTOC - even though that is not obviously how it was meant. The tone of both conversations just made me wonder what is underlying. I personally feel that you are 'having a go' at the TTOC in both threads, hence my referencing to the North West rep thread.

I apologise if what I have said has offended you but I am merely voicing how this has all read to me. I guess this is the problem with the written word.

Hev x


----------



## les

Hev said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hev... not intended in the slightest. I posted that in other forums as many TTOC members who would want to contribute would miss it as many do not visit here as much as other forums. I wasn't exactly sure what forum to post it in as either as I also wanted non TTOC members to have their say and many of them I thought wouldn't visit the TTOC forum.
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough - the thread title does not really give any indication as to the content and the content itself is just a link - to me that looked like you are trying to 'trick' (and I use that word only because I can't think of a more suitable expression) people into viewing the thread and gaining maximum exposure. I suppose that this is the problem with the written word...what is intended by the writer is not always read by the reader :?
> 
> 
> 
> les said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please explain what you mean by "and your posting in the North West rep" and its relationship to this thread. Are you in anyway suggesting my posts on that are in some way stirring things I do hope not as I would resent such an accusation. I apologize if I have that wrong but welcome your explanation. Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Both these threads have started in a rather short space of time (I know you did not start the other one) but again I think what has been taken by me as a reader is that you are seriously down-heartened by the TTOC - even though that is not obviously how it was meant. The tone of both conversations just made me wonder what is underlying. I personally feel that you are 'having a go' at the TTOC in both threads, hence my referencing to the North West rep thread.
> 
> I apologise if what I have said has offended you but I am merely voicing how this has all read to me. I guess this is the problem with the written word.
> 
> Hev x
Click to expand...

I agree Hev the written word can be interpreted quite differently than the author meant it.

Firstly nice to know you read the threads relating to other areas not just your own Hev and I guess you are well informed about the debate regarding the lack of an active NW rep esp being a rep yourself. Secondly I don't know what I have said in that thread that would bring you to the conclusion that I MAY in some way be stirring things up. :? I think you will find things have been stirring for a hell of a long time regarding that issue and as a very active member of the NW region I have voiced my concern as have others. I am sure you will also know I have done some of the things an active rep would do in the absence of one to try and help out. I have posted in what I believe is a constructive way (you may believe differently) and yes I have asked questions few of which have been answered. I will be quite honest with you and as I have said on that thread and others I am sick of the NW rep debate but I have to say that's because it gone on for far too long as Nem has stated in his post on here, I assume you have also read that. This is all off topic however so forgive me for answering and therefore helping to take it away from the subject. I hope that helps clear that up but if not I suggest all post regarding that topic are posted on there as I am sure as a rep yourself your views will be appreciated.
Thanks.


----------



## TTQ2K2

les said:


> TTQ2K2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Les, just a quick reminder of what you TTOC membership dues get you...
> *Membership
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone can join the TTOC by buying a pack from our online shop.
> 
> Along with your membership pack, which has your first copy of absoluTTe, you'll receive window stickers and business cards to pass on to others owners, along with your individually named and numbered membership card. This card entitles you to a host of member discounts from TT parts and accessory suppliers. And, on the subject of savings, you'll also receive our current range of vouchers, entitling you to various one-off deals from our partners. Click here for a list of current savings.
> 
> On the social scene, you get discounted entry to our National Event, which sees hundreds of TTs from around the country get together to enjoy a day out, with track events, Audi and TT supplier presence, competitions, raffles and giveaways. If once a year isn't quite enough for you, our regional reps get together for smaller gatherings throughout the year. Not only are we a great social club, but that social circle will bring you access to a wealth of TT knowledge.
> 
> Buy a membership pack. Click here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Everyone pays the same fee for TT forum access. Zero, Zip, Nada. If you feel you've overpaid, perhaps you should resign.
> 
> cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should read what I wrote properly not what you appeared to have thought I wrote :roll:
Click to expand...

I read very carefully what you wrote as did the others. You words were clear. Critics did not take them out of context. In summary: 1. You're happy to pay TTOC dues but feel you're not getting your money's worth. 2., non-TTOC members/TTF members enjoy same basic benefits as TTOC members. 3. That's unfair and TTF should be a TTOC members-only benefit.

This forum's motto is true because of the support from TTOC and TTF memberships. Your whining [smiley=bigcry.gif] is an embarassment to both TTOC membership and TTF membership. You owe all an apology for your pettiness. Grow a pair, apologize, and let's all get on with keeping this fourm the greatest TT resource in the world. 
cheers.


----------



## John-H

Love_iTT said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair to the TTOC, apart from the magazine (which is miles better than it used to be just 2 years ago...
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers Rich, much appreciated, that's made me feel so much better! That's made me feel that for about 18 months, working to god knows what time in the mornings, organising the print and all the other 'stuff' (that you especially know what goes on in producing artwork and print) and all for totally free of charge from my point - all so worthwhile. Free of charge because I wanted to contribute something to the TTOC. I know I'm not the best designer in the world - far from it - but at least I managed to get something out to the punters while other designers wanted paying for doing it. This freed up cash for other things the TTOC could do.
> 
> Anyway, I guess I now know for sure from your comments that my time producing absolutte was a complete and utter waste of time then. Cheers mate.
> 
> Graham
Click to expand...

Graham,

Don't ever think that. You made the magazine the high quality, multiple award winning, glossy publication that it is - it's down to you and your unpaid but much appreciated efforts (and the rest of the team of course!) that it gained its reputation as the best car club magazine going - there was and is nothing to touch it. The Porche magazine which is the only comparable one is full of adverts and has little content in comparison. All the others I know tend to be photocopied black and white A4 sheets stapled together. It was down to you that we got it so good. More recently we've had to bite the bullet and pay for design because after your sterling effort, nobody else was prepared to do it for free as you did for such a long time and for which we all owe you a debt of gratitide. 

The fact that we are now paying for design has indeed created an extra financial cost for the club but we have always had to pay for printing and distribution. We can and are now comfortably paying our way. Basically club membership pays for producing the magazine and what's left over goes into organising and sorting everything else. We had to scale back expenditure this year for TT09 but we still produced a gold award winning event and other things put in place like the changes to the club shop merchandising should help further.

The TTOC and the TTF are as one - as it says on the stickie - that's not to say that we are financially connected at all - no money passes between us - but we do work symbiotically in each others interests. The TTOC organise events and use the TT Forum for day to day communication to members in that respect. The TT Forum benefits from being closely associated with the club which no other TT forum is. We are intertwined - many TTOC members are forum moderators and help with the day to day runing of the forum - it's wrong to view each as entirely separate entities.

Some may say that they are only on the TT Forum - well that is because it's a forum! The TTOC website is not a forum and although we could have set it up as such - indeed we have a private committee administration forum on there and it would have been simple enough to extend its forum facilities to everyone, we instead saw the value of strength in a joint TTF /TTOC effort rater than division of effort and pointless rivalry. The TTOC website is mainly used for club merchandise and information. The TT Forum is for two way communication - it's a forum.

Now, you can argue that TTF members don't have to pay but receive benefit from TTOC events etc. but of course they don't get the magazine. That's one clear demarcation which they can choose to take up or not as they please. I'd say they were missing out on the most TT targeted publication going and I don't think anyone would argue with that. It's not a rivalry thing it's just an extra benefit you can buy into. It's also true to say that many TTOC members are not TTF members - so again for many there is only the TTOC.

I'd like to think that further demarcation would be a clear and positive reason to join the TTOC and conribute for a worthwhile benefit - nothing negative - only positive - in addition to what you get with the TTF. There is the recently expanded merchandise of course. But perhaps there is a point in mentioning TTOC discounts that TTF members also obtain and how this may lose TTOC member exclusive benefit. Perhaps other club benefits such as information should be expanded and only available to TTOC members,although personally I like to be free with information. So in such respects perhaps we could take this debate forward.

Just to underline the point - this is not a rivalry. TT Forum members are welcome to join and contribute to the TTOC for the aditional and any future member benefits referred to above and the benefits of having the club exist, such as events, are freely available to any TTF member to attend.


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

Well Ton'y's back... first up... Hev...



Hev said:


> Both these threads have started in a rather short space of time (I know you did not start the other one) but again I think what has been taken by me as a reader is that you are seriously down-heartened by the TTOC - even though that is not obviously how it was meant. The tone of both conversations just made me wonder what is underlying. I personally feel that you are 'having a go' at the TTOC in both threads, hence my referencing to the North West rep thread.


Granted these problems are probably a little interlinked... perhaps it wouldn't be such a issue if we had information relating to the TTOC and what future plans ect are directly from a Decorated member or representative... such as NW rep... seems like the only time the issue is addressed is when someone gets abit annoyed and puts up a post... i did one myself a couple of months ago.,.. and it got left and strangly john, then steve brought it up this time... would like to know your opinion on this though... do you think that the TTOC has embraced the influx of NW members over the past 12months or do you think they have burried there head in the sand becaue of "Who" the rep is??? and in doing so leaving the NW to their own devices... who i must say we've all pulled together and got events going... some of the best might i add.. I just think it's wrong how a NW rep is named with contact details on the back of absoluTTe who we all know full well will not be responding to or pointing those potential members in the direction of the people who are actually running the NW meets... Surly you can see how thats abit of a kick in the teeth every time the mag comes out !!! afterall ifthere are members who are not on the forum then there contact would be with the rep via e-mail would it not?? think we've all resigned to the fact that the rep is not displaying the interests of the NW members and therefore those members cannot join the members who are on the forum and are activly organising meets... therefore the TTOC is giving even less back to them...(AND IF YOU SAY YOU'D NOT BE ANNOYED AT THE SITUATION AND FEEL THAT THE CLUB HAS COMMUNICATED THE ISSUE WITH WHY THERE IS NO ACTIVE NW REP THEN PLEASE FEEL FREE TO JUSTIFY THAT)

Secondly to john.. hope you don't mind as i've pulled the snippets that re-iterate what i said earlier...



John-H said:


> The TTOC organise events and use the TT Forum for day to day communication to members in that respect. The TT Forum benefits from being closely associated with the club which no other TT forum is. We are intertwined
> 
> Some may say that they are only on the TT Forum - well that is because it's a forum! The TTOC website is mainly used for club merchandise and information. The TT Forum is for two way communication - it's a forum.
> 
> It's also true to say that many TTOC members are not TTF members - so again for many there is only the TTOC.


If this is the case then surly the TTOC calling cards should have reference to the TTF since this is where communication is occouring most of the time... i do feel that it would be more advantageous as new owners would be here as from just looking at the TTOC website on it's own in it's entirety it does seem rather... unsocial.. which we all know isn't the case it's just communications.. like you said are on the TTF...

This isn't about having a pop at the TTOC... not at all.. yes the NW situation is frustrating for members... and probably does leave a bee in the bonnet... but i think when read with that aside alot of the comments i raised in my first post were all focusing around "HOW" the TTOC could get more members... the trip idea was a good one if the trip was being organised by the TTOC... the same way as the EvenTT's are more for non members than they are for members... in this day and age you want people to think... well if i join and go on a trip and event i've recovered the costs of membership (as yes some people won't just throw there money at the TTOC when they have a perfectly good TTF)

I hope my point of making the TTOC more desirable has come across.. as at the end of the day i'm a member at want the club the thrive.... it'd be also nice to have a NW representative who could take the NW MEMBERS COMMETS made AT MEETS, doll the good ideas abit and REPRESENT them to the TTOC OFFICIALS in the correct mannor... at the end of the day some ideas will be bad, but a single good idea could generate more members and this creative way of thinking should be encouraged after all doesn't the TTOC pride it'self on WORKING FOR IT'S MEMBERS....

hope this message is recived in the form it's intended...in no means a pop at the club, or it's methods, just some suggestions in boosting membership.... think the issue is we (NW) don't have a rep who can suggest them to the TTOC officals after being discussed locally with members....(SO IN THAT SENSE YES HEV THEY ARE LINKED !!!)


----------



## rustyintegrale

Love_iTT said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair to the TTOC, apart from the magazine (which is miles better than it used to be just 2 years ago...
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers Rich, much appreciated, that's made me feel so much better! That's made me feel that for about 18 months, working to god knows what time in the mornings, organising the print and all the other 'stuff' (that you especially know what goes on in producing artwork and print) and all for totally free of charge from my point - all so worthwhile. Free of charge because I wanted to contribute something to the TTOC. I know I'm not the best designer in the world - far from it - but at least I managed to get something out to the punters while other designers wanted paying for doing it. This freed up cash for other things the TTOC could do.
> 
> Anyway, I guess I now know for sure from your comments that my time producing absolutte was a complete and utter waste of time then. Cheers mate.
> 
> Graham
Click to expand...

Graham, just to be clear. The magazine is a lot more than just it's design and my comments were directed more at the content, the quality of the writing and the improvement in the photography more than anything else.

Yes the design has been modernised and there is nothing wrong with that. Times change and design in every area has to move on too. You did a fine job while you were looking after putting the magazine together and please remember I have first-hand experience of working for a committee who like to have an input into everything - even though they might not possess the skills and knowledge to do so. I'm sure it was a tough environment for you to work in and the end result is - as you say - long hours and burning the candle at both ends in order to meet a deadline.

For the record, your efforts were and are much appreciated, as indeed all the efforts put in by those who volunteer their time for free. As far as I am aware, the magazine is now professionally produced anyway which only goes to demonstrate just how much work is involved.

Cheers

rich


----------



## les

TTQ2K2 said:


> [
> 
> This forum's motto is true because of the support from TTOC and TTF memberships. Your whining [smiley=bigcry.gif] is an embarassment to both TTOC membership and TTF membership. You owe all an apology for your pettiness. Grow a pair, apologize, and let's all get on with keeping this fourm the greatest TT resource in the world.
> cheers.


Wrong wrong wrong!. 
I am happy to pay the fees but the club could be better. I am stating an opinion supported by many as people have contributed here and elsewhere you think its whining that's your problem. If you think the truth is embarrassing then that's not so unusual and I am sorry if you are embarrassed not a view I have seen expressed by anybody else here. Again if you think it's petty I am sorry for you, I do a lot as a lay member to help the TTOC as well as paying my yearly dues. Sorry i'm not going to be goaded by irrational thinking, poor conclusions sheer bad manners and poor summing up. I think your just trying to get this thread locked. BTW here's an idea why don't you join the TTOC and do something constructive seeing as you live so far away buddy?


----------



## John-H

tony_rigby_uk said:


> ...
> 
> 
> John-H said:
> 
> 
> 
> The TTOC organise events and use the TT Forum for day to day communication to members in that respect. The TT Forum benefits from being closely associated with the club which no other TT forum is. We are intertwined
> 
> Some may say that they are only on the TT Forum - well that is because it's a forum! The TTOC website is mainly used for club merchandise and information. The TT Forum is for two way communication - it's a forum.
> 
> It's also true to say that many TTOC members are not TTF members - so again for many there is only the TTOC.
> 
> 
> 
> If this is the case then surly the TTOC calling cards should have reference to the TTF since this is where communication is occouring most of the time... i do feel that it would be more advantageous as new owners would be here as from just looking at the TTOC website on it's own in it's entirety it does seem rather... unsocial.. which we all know isn't the case it's just communications.. like you said are on the TTF...
Click to expand...

Hi Tony,

The cards did used to have the TT Forum on them but the last lot we had printed, which was before my time when the TTF and TTOC were not so close, don't have it on. We still have a lot of these cards to use up. We need to design a new card and one with a bit of white space to write on.



tony_rigby_uk said:


> ...This isn't about having a pop at the TTOC... not at all.. yes the NW situation is frustrating for members... and probably does leave a bee in the bonnet... but i think when read with that aside alot of the comments i raised in my first post were all focusing around "HOW" the TTOC could get more members... the trip idea was a good one if the trip was being organised by the TTOC... the same way as the EvenTT's are more for non members than they are for members... in this day and age you want people to think... well if i join and go on a trip and event i've recovered the costs of membership (as yes some people won't just throw there money at the TTOC when they have a perfectly good TTF)
> 
> I hope my point of making the TTOC more desirable has come across.. as at the end of the day i'm a member at want the club the thrive.... it'd be also nice to have a NW representative who could take the NW MEMBERS COMMETS made AT MEETS, doll the good ideas abit and REPRESENT them to the TTOC OFFICIALS in the correct mannor... at the end of the day some ideas will be bad, but a single good idea could generate more members and this creative way of thinking should be encouraged after all doesn't the TTOC pride it'self on WORKING FOR IT'S MEMBERS....
> 
> hope this message is recived in the form it's intended...in no means a pop at the club, or it's methods, just some suggestions in boosting membership.... think the issue is we (NW) don't have a rep who can suggest them to the TTOC officals after being discussed locally with members....(SO IN THAT SENSE YES HEV THEY ARE LINKED !!!)


I know you weren't having a pop as it were and are just trying to improve things. There are some improvements that need to be made to our website, one of which is linking to TTF and in the FAQ section for How Tos etc. Partly that's my fault but with the magazine workload I've been struggling to find time. I know Nick has been working hard on the shop etc. too and one problem when you get focussed on an issue is losing site of some other issues. Hopefully with the magazine out of the way as of yesterday (ish!) then I'll have some time to sort one or two things. Nick's working on it too.

We've managed quite well at organising events in the NW with great efforts from the likes of Les, Mark Davies and others who have stood in. There has been a problem and it will be resolved but we had to be a little sensitive and it's not the sort of thing that can be fully aired in public out of respect for the individuals concerned so bear with us a little longer.



rustyintegrale said:


> Love_iTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair to the TTOC, apart from the magazine (which is miles better than it used to be just 2 years ago...
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers Rich, much appreciated, that's made me feel so much better! That's made me feel that for about 18 months, working to god knows what time in the mornings, organising the print and all the other 'stuff' (that you especially know what goes on in producing artwork and print) and all for totally free of charge from my point - all so worthwhile. Free of charge because I wanted to contribute something to the TTOC. I know I'm not the best designer in the world - far from it - but at least I managed to get something out to the punters while other designers wanted paying for doing it. This freed up cash for other things the TTOC could do.
> 
> Anyway, I guess I now know for sure from your comments that my time producing absolutte was a complete and utter waste of time then. Cheers mate.
> 
> Graham
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Graham, just to be clear. The magazine is a lot more than just it's design and my comments were directed more at the content, the quality of the writing and the improvement in the photography more than anything else.
> 
> Yes the design has been modernised and there is nothing wrong with that. Times change and design in every area has to move on too. You did a fine job while you were looking after putting the magazine together and please remember I have first-hand experience of working for a committee who like to have an input into everything - even though they might not possess the skills and knowledge to do so. I'm sure it was a tough environment for you to work in and the end result is - as you say - long hours and burning the candle at both ends in order to meet a deadline.
> 
> For the record, your efforts were and are much appreciated, as indeed all the efforts put in by those who volunteer their time for free. As far as I am aware, the magazine is now professionally produced anyway which only goes to demonstrate just how much work is involved.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> rich
Click to expand...

Hi Rich,

It's only the design and printing side that's professional - by that I mean paid for. Editing, proof reading, writing - that's all still voluntier work which I coordinate and it does take up the evenings I can tell you. There's a little subing done by the designer at the design stage but it's in close colaboration with me. I'm really the only person that interfaces with the designer day to day and it does work well. He someties may interface directly with an advertiser or other individual as the need arises but there really is no problem for him having to deal with contradictory inputs.


----------



## Hark

No, they shouldn't be linked.

I would argue that I one of the most active memebers (sad I know  ) and I would never have ended up on here if I had to pay.

I think it would put off new members in a quite devastating way.

Just to add fuel on the fire (sorry mods), who is the NW rep? I've attended 2 of their meets now and presumed it was John/Les/Mark etc?


----------



## les

Hark said:


> No, they shouldn't be linked.
> 
> I would argue that I one of the most active memebers (sad I know  ) and I would never have ended up on here if I had to pay.
> 
> I think it would put off new members in a quite devastating way.
> 
> Just to add fuel on the fire (sorry mods), who is the NW rep? I've attended 2 of their meets now and presumed it was John/Les/Mark etc?


Hi Hark,
We have not had an active NW rep for 2.1/2 years however the official NW rep is Dave G as is stated in the rear of each issue of Absolutte. Hope that helps clear up any confusion but its understandable given the circumstances.

Cheers.


----------



## TTCool

Thank God you came along John(-H). I'm now even more happy with my £30 contribution. I made the benign remark to the effect that I was happy with my lot, only to be turned over and sent down.

The first paragraph alone from the main protagonist would have been a sufficient reply to my post. As it is, it unfolded into an oversized ego trip IMO.

I for one will be looking forward to the next issue of AbsoluTTe and along with being able to help other TTF members and receive help from other TTF members makes my monetary contribution to the overall community worthwhile. So far as I'm concerned there is enougfh merit in the magazine alone to justify the the cost of membership.

Thank you to all concerned in producing AbsoluTTe and please don't lose faith in the combined efforts of the TTOC and the TTF.

Joe


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

TTCool said:


> Thank God you came along John(-H). I'm now even more happy with my £30 contribution. I made the benign remark to the effect that I was happy with my lot, only to be turned over and sent down.
> 
> The first paragraph alone from the main protagonist would have been a sufficient reply to my post. As it is, it unfolded into an oversized ego trip IMO.
> 
> I for one will be looking forward to the next issue of AbsoluTTe and along with being able to help other TTF members and receive help from other TTF members makes my monetary contribution to the overall community worthwhile. So far as I'm concerned there is enougfh merit in the magazine alone to justify the the cost of membership.
> 
> Thank you to all concerned in producing AbsoluTTe and please don't lose faith in the combined efforts of the TTOC and the TTF.
> 
> Joe


Save ya self a fortune and buy them at £3 each from the TTOC shop and not pay the £7.50 it costs for each mag as membership... Think that more so is the point..... that's a saving of £4.50 per issue... is it me or does that just not add up... Yes the mag is fantastic and is "free" to members, but if the TTOC is offering nothing but a mag... then it seems cheaper and easier to buy from the TTOC shop and save some money.,.. Think the point being made is there is a discrepency... so let me do some maths for you...

Member
If membership is £30 and you recive 4 Issues of Absolute and pay say £10 for entery to the national event... thats £40 a year...

NON Member
None member buys 4 issues of Absolutte at £3 and say 50p postage and have to pay £15 for the National event then thats £29 a year....

so ask yourself who's getting a better deal....it's not that theTTOC club is poor... most members have active reps, who support them, and get the low down on the latest TT affairs... in the NW situation you get a mag and Naff all else... so doing abit of maths you can save ya self some money and not have to having anything to do with the Pally Pally oh we can't get rid of the NW rep attitude...

In truth all the situation is doing is driving the NW members away... I mean really should the views of members be ignored in such a way? if you look in the latest issue of absoluTTe.. there are a few event's... and let me explain these for you...

1) the EvenTT09 (great day organised by the TTOC)
2) the Isle of man (which if you look in the caption at the left "Mark Davies" wrote this element someone who has voice his views regaring the NW rep.
3) Lets go Fly a kite, Organised by "Gill" AKA seasurfer again a regular NW goer who has to travell from cumbria to be apart of our socila gatherings.. who's on the pics, Syd, Mattb, Les, (all of which have voice concerns over the NW position..
4) Awesome Rolling road day... Arranged by John, AKA P7 TTJ who started the NW rep discussion this time round.. he looked after the morning stint and I took care of the afternoon session.. also collated the results for the article for John H to write up..
5) Another NW contribution was the How To V6 Brakes i wrote for this issue...

Then you flick to the bag page and see DavidG as the NW rep... So when you consider who's actually put the input into the latest issue of absolutte... (and to be honest i don't need to read about it I was there for most of it!!!) and thats just one issue of absolutte, we've had many more over the past 12months !!!

so all those people who are slating us for bringing this up... and are obviously apart of the Up DavidG's Arse syndrome (ys it must be a medical condition i it's clouding your judgement to not see the effect that this is having) i'd like you al to answer one simple question..... and here it is !!!

_Do you think that the NW members who are doing alot, for the club, and organising events that are being featured in AbsoluTTe are being treated *fairly* when all they are asking for is a *NW rep*?? and in many respects been *ignored* by the TTOC regarding this matter for *12months*.._?????????

If you do think thats fair treatment then obviously the TTOC only looks after members who are close Friends of the people higher up, and not the members doing the leg work... on another note what would have been in absolutte this issue if the NW members hadn't done so much... ???? i'll look forward to hearing that..


----------



## jammyd

Right I am getting really sick of this money aspect... let me put a few things clear...

Magazine does not cost £7.50 per member... the price you see on the TTOC shop is about right, but I am reviewing this currently...

for example you go to a meet. the flags we put up do not grow on trees... they cost money. A lot of money to be exact... the post holders for the flags cost money, the gazebo which is falling apart slightly costs money.

Having the shop costs money, posting the membership packs, doing the card designs, doing the card printing it all costs money...

Yes its annoying that some of the member benefits seem to be given to non TTOC members, but that's life... you do not see the TTF getting specific discounts with Audi on parts and servicing. these are things which we try to work on and as always we look out for further opportunity to make money.

As an organisation we do not make any profit. any money we do make gets put back in to the club. if we get to a posistion where we can do something spectacular for free then we will do it, but it would be for members only.


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

jammyd said:


> you do not see the TTF getting specific discounts with Audi on parts and servicing.


I didn't know the TTOC did??? I've always paid full price at audi bolton. :? another sign of poor communication to members... so how do you go about aquiring this discount???... hmmm on the subject perhaps here's another idea get audi to look favourably on TTOC members requiring dashpods (not saying free but discount)... this will boost membership don't ya think as people again will say the membership cost vs the benefits of saving money would be worth wild....(again another idea !!)

on another note (even though i think i know the answer from you jammy) but....



tony_rigby_uk said:


> _Do you think that the NW members who are doing alot, for the club, and organising events that are being featured in AbsoluTTe are being treated *fairly* when all they are asking for is a *NW rep*?? and in many respects been *ignored* by the TTOC regarding this matter for *12months*.._?????????
> 
> what would have been in absolutte this issue if the NW members hadn't done so much... ???? i'll look forward to hearing that..


it's a simple question isn't it? and a pretty fair one?


----------



## Trev TT

Thanks Jammy, having read most of this thread this morning, and started writing a reply, I return to see the thread either straying from the point, or me not getting the point, now u have reiterated the point ill add my post. apologises for the long windedness.

Interesting reading through the whole thread that has been growing for a few days, as ya get a lot of views either way and ya feelings can be compiled fully before writing something. I think members need to remember this when posting in the heat of the moment. I am a NW member and know Les a little, I know him more from his posts on here though, I feel his general feelings are always to make OUR TT enthusiasm grow from strength to strength and he had no ill feelings towards either the TTOC or the TTF. 
As a member of the TTF I joined late year, when Appreciation for the TT grew to a point where I finally thought I was able to afford to have one.
So I joined the TTF when I started looking for my Car. Through the forum I found piston heads and also searched other ads and finally found my car in Feb. I have used this forum since then to maintain my interest in my car with regards to all the techy post's and the organised meets (when I can make it) and the other day to day things that ya can read when ya get a spare few mins TT related and not.
After I bought my TT I wanted to join the TTOC because I wanted to be apart of an OWNERS Club. I wear the badge on my car with pride which I hope tells other TT owners who are fortunate enough to drive a fantastic car, but maybe its just another car to them. That it's a "GREAT" car and this person (me) is proud to be lucky enough to own one. The subs, are worth the badge alone, the mag is fantastic, and a very enjoyable read, and its nice to see people ( and myself for that matter) printed in the pages.
The question here is are they one and the same, but only a few people actually pay for it! 
Well firstly, there are of course allot of hidden costs with running a club which many of us probably forget about, so looking at what u get for your money isn't realy a factor, as if it were a business, it would have gone bust long ago. So subs help the TTOC run, as well as giving a few bits back in the form of some discounts and a magazine.
The TTF also costs money to run, and this fortunately is paid for via the advertising revenue it generates. So members are lucky enough to get this for free. 
However you could look at it another way, as soon as you buy into one of the group buys, you are paying the premium of the garage who will have built his advertising costs into his prices. So avid moding TTF members are still paying towards the forums running costs.
The TTOC is for owners/enthusiasts of a TT's. Members of the TTF are anyone who may take an interest be it for a single visit/post, to the members of the TTOC.
The two while being separate entities run very well in my opinion along side each other. You really cannot charge people to be members of a forum, as site traffic would die, and ultimately kill the site In fact the only good reason I can think of to charge, would be to kill off the spammers. 
Personally I get everything I want from both communities, and having a limited amount of time for this means I'm maybe not aware of any underlying issues, that more committed members are. If there are financial issue with the TTOC, then more members would solve this, and probably bring down the overall cost of membership. Perhaps the next group buy should be to recruit another 250 members. To get a discount.
Lol sorry im just babbling now, and voicing to many of my thoughts, which in summery are my thoughts, and do not reflect any grievance towards any other member, I am trying to make a positive post, and apologise if anyone reads this differently. 
PS I wonder If the TTOC would have won as many top awards at the Audi drivers event, if the TTF were not as closely affiliated with it!


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

Great post Trev, and do agree to many points.. However this isn't a thread for trying to bring down the TTOC by the members who are giving constructive chritisism (and in many resects many posts are only hinting towards the club upping it's drive to attract new members)... obviously though if some well established members are beggining to ask questions is it any wonder new people (who will probably have more questions) are not joining?

again like myself you are another prime example of someone who found TTF before TTOC... and it did take me a while to join the TTOC as there wasn't any suggestion of this from a NW rep... also i think the reason this has all come about BECAUSE we don't have a rep... at the end of the day these questions would be voiced through the NW rep.. in the TTOC private area, as suggestions and taken in good faith... I am in complete agreement that the TTF remains free... but i'm surprised this hasn't been noticed before... as when the TTF went down for a week i was lost... although if the TTOC went down i don't think i'd even realise... the most important entity is the TTF in my opinion... and if the TTOC are so blind that they couldn't see that there was a gap in the NW from a rep position who could discuss such matters with members on local meets, and possibly tell NW members to shut up thats a stupid comment, or communicate them forward as ideas then i think thats a poor state of affairs... after all as my post highlights the NW are very active... so why is it so difficult to give them a rep??? ever other region has one???


----------



## jammyd

tony_rigby_uk said:


> jammyd said:
> 
> 
> 
> you do not see the TTF getting specific discounts with Audi on parts and servicing.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know the TTOC did??? I've always paid full price at audi bolton. :? another sign of poor communication to members... so how do you go about aquiring this discount???... hmmm on the subject perhaps here's another idea get audi to look favourably on TTOC members requiring dashpods (not saying free but discount)... this will boost membership don't ya think as people again will say the membership cost vs the benefits of saving money would be worth wild....(again another idea !!)
Click to expand...

Audi Bolton do not offer such benefits, but we have offers from Audi Manchester offering a deal and we are hoping to have maybe one or 2 more signed up in the near future... I would not say it was a case of poor communication at all, maybe more of you not looking at the discounts page on the TTOC!



tony_rigby_uk said:


> Do you think that the NW members who are doing alot, for the club, and organising events that are being featured in AbsoluTTe are being treated fairly when all they are asking for is a NW rep?? and in many respects been ignored by the TTOC regarding this matter for 12months..?????????
> 
> what would have been in absolutte this issue if the NW members hadn't done so much... ???? i'll look forward to hearing that..


You know my opinion on this and we have discussed it at length before... I would not say you are ignored... if you look at it you have the Editor/Sub-Editor/Treasurer and Rep Sec all regularly coming to the NW meets, mainly as the first 3 live in the area. I would also like to think that since I have been on committee with the TTOC that I have worked towards sorting out the Rep situation and have constantly kept everyone up to date with the information I had.


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

jammyd said:


> Audi Bolton do not offer such benefits, but we have offers from Audi Manchester offering a deal and we are hoping to have maybe one or 2 more signed up in the near future... I would not say it was a case of poor communication at all, maybe more of you not looking at the discounts page on the TTOC!


I'm assuming you mean here http://www.ttoc.co.uk/website/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3910 sorry yes you are right.. but thats where it get confussing.. as in another post from John H he said that this place (TTF) was used for communication so is it any wonder i've missed it... But granted i hold my hands up and i have.. and this does state what i've been saying all along about encouraging membership due to the savings....("you'll cover the cost of membership comfortbly with the discount you'll recive on a service at APS") so appologise for this error on my part.... Although i do think it maywell should be a little easier to find somehow.maybe a link on here to that page somewhere.. as i've been here a year and never found it  but yes this was what i was encouraging so a few more will be great.... oh and Try warrington audi for me if theres no joy from bolton. :wink: EDIT: well done for this Jammy http://www.********.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=157900 thanks for taking comments on board 



jammyd said:


> You know my opinion on this and we have discussed it at length before... I would not say you are ignored... if you look at it you have the Editor/Sub-Editor/Treasurer and Rep Sec all regularly coming to the NW meets, mainly as the first 3 live in the area. I would also like to think that since I have been on committee with the TTOC that I have worked towards sorting out the Rep situation and have constantly kept everyone up to date with the information I had.


Perhaps not ignored by yourselves... but you must recall this has been going on for far too long, and it "could" be viewed as were being told it'll get sorted then nothing happens for months... maybe a little ignorant wouldn't you say?? I know in no way paul have you ever been unreasonable.. and i know for a fact you've been pushing the issue for us and i don thank you for that... 
but surly you must see that when other areas (Kent) as in this post http://www.********.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=153581&hilit=+New+Rep get a new rep because paul has actioned the fact the current rep wasn't performing (or had a tt for that matter anymore!!) and the NW are pushing for the same (a rep that will represent us) we do feel a little ignored, left out, not valued, or that the TTOC is failing us. since nothing happens..I mean how difficult is it really???.. I know there is issues ect... and i am aware of some... but this is a volentary post and not elected.. if someone isn't doing their job then they should be removed... especially after a period of 2.5 years .... i think everyone must see that somethings a miss andas far as NW members are concerned with what has happened to other reps.. the only reason we haven't had the matter progressed is because of who the rep is... who went to his wedding and who is pally with him.... for me there is no other explanation and personal friendships should be put aside after all the TTOC shouldn't be a who knows who.. and should be who does what !!

I know you've now set a deadline for this to be sorted and thanks for that... hopefully it'll be a new start with a a rep (be it existing or new) that will actually represent it's NW members..


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

just on another note whilst i've been on the TTOC website....
On the Past events section: http://www.ttoc.co.uk/website/viewforum.php?f=31 the last event was "Galway Trip 15/08/2008"  now think we all know this is far from the truth... and when you click on it to read about the event all the pictures are broken  Not having a go (as i'm sure someone has picked up that it looks like the TTOC hasn't had an event for over 12months) but surly that doesn't look like an attractive proposition for new members does it???

If it has been missed by the TTOC then i'm glad i've spotted it as it looks abit out of date if we've done nohing since then as we all know thats not true...


----------



## TTCool

tony_rigby_uk said:


> TTCool said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank God you came along John(-H). I'm now even more happy with my £30 contribution. I made the benign remark to the effect that I was happy with my lot, only to be turned over and sent down.
> 
> The first paragraph alone from the main protagonist would have been a sufficient reply to my post. As it is, it unfolded into an oversized ego trip IMO.
> 
> I for one will be looking forward to the next issue of AbsoluTTe and along with being able to help other TTF members and receive help from other TTF members makes my monetary contribution to the overall community worthwhile. So far as I'm concerned there is enougfh merit in the magazine alone to justify the the cost of membership.
> 
> Thank you to all concerned in producing AbsoluTTe and please don't lose faith in the combined efforts of the TTOC and the TTF.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> 
> Save ya self a fortune and buy them at £3 each from the TTOC shop and not pay the £7.50 it costs for each mag as membership... Think that more so is the point..... that's a saving of £4.50 per issue... is it me or does that just not add up... Yes the mag is fantastic and is "free" to members, but if the TTOC is offering nothing but a mag... then it seems cheaper and easier to buy from the TTOC shop and save some money.,.. Think the point being made is there is a discrepency... so let me do some maths for you...
> 
> Member
> If membership is £30 and you recive 4 Issues of Absolute and pay say £10 for entery to the national event... thats £40 a year...
> 
> NON Member
> None member buys 4 issues of Absolutte at £3 and say 50p postage and have to pay £15 for the National event then thats £29 a year....
> 
> so ask yourself who's getting a better deal....it's not that theTTOC club is poor... most members have active reps, who support them, and get the low down on the latest TT affairs... in the NW situation you get a mag and Naff all else... so doing abit of maths you can save ya self some money and not have to having anything to do with the Pally Pally oh we can't get rid of the NW rep attitude...
> 
> In truth all the situation is doing is driving the NW members away... I mean really should the views of members be ignored in such a way? if you look in the latest issue of absoluTTe.. there are a few event's... and let me explain these for you...
> 
> 1) the EvenTT09 (great day organised by the TTOC)
> 2) the Isle of man (which if you look in the caption at the left "Mark Davies" wrote this element someone who has voice his views regaring the NW rep.
> 3) Lets go Fly a kite, Organised by "Gill" AKA seasurfer again a regular NW goer who has to travell from cumbria to be apart of our socila gatherings.. who's on the pics, Syd, Mattb, Les, (all of which have voice concerns over the NW position..
> 4) Awesome Rolling road day... Arranged by John, AKA P7 TTJ who started the NW rep discussion this time round.. he looked after the morning stint and I took care of the afternoon session.. also collated the results for the article for John H to write up..
> 5) Another NW contribution was the How To V6 Brakes i wrote for this issue...
> 
> Then you flick to the bag page and see DavidG as the NW rep... So when you consider who's actually put the input into the latest issue of absolutte... (and to be honest i don't need to read about it I was there for most of it!!!) and thats just one issue of absolutte, we've had many more over the past 12months !!!
> 
> so all those people who are slating us for bringing this up... and are obviously apart of the Up DavidG's Arse syndrome (ys it must be a medical condition i it's clouding your judgement to not see the effect that this is having) i'd like you al to answer one simple question..... and here it is !!!
> 
> _Do you think that the NW members who are doing alot, for the club, and organising events that are being featured in AbsoluTTe are being treated *fairly* when all they are asking for is a *NW rep*?? and in many respects been *ignored* by the TTOC regarding this matter for *12months*.._?????????
> 
> If you do think thats fair treatment then obviously the TTOC only looks after members who are close Friends of the people higher up, and not the members doing the leg work... on another note what would have been in absolutte this issue if the NW members hadn't done so much... ???? i'll look forward to hearing that..
Click to expand...

Tony, I can only speak for myself and I'm not interested in saving money. There's no need to work out the worth of membership on my behalf. I personally don't care, so long as I'm happy, that's all that matters to me. If you personally and other people have helped both the TTOC and the TTF, I have already expressed my warm friendly feelings of gratitude. I have organised drives outside my area a few times and very succsessful they were too. I could complain that my local NE representative hasn't done much in the way of long distance challenging drives but I haven't. I know my place :lol:.

So far as the NW representative is concerned, it's not my concern really, except that I naturally like things to run smoothly in all areas. Why doesn't the existing NW representative simply do the decent thing and resign his position if he's no longer interested? From what you write it's the people of the NW who deserve praise and the opportunity to be released from this apparent rock and a hard place concerning the representative DavidG.

I can't recall my ever getting involved in the NW representative problem. I am not slating you or anyone else for bringing up your concerns. I am definately not up Davidg's arse or up the arse of anyone else. I can't for the life of me understand why you apperar to be saying I have taken sides. You have got your wires crossed if you think I'm in favour of prolonging discourse or are interested in this bickering contest.

Can't you not take the simple view regarding that which I have already written, which is I have no objections to paying a fee and I appreciate everybodys' positive input concerning both the TTOC and the TTF?

Joe


----------



## TTQ2K2

les said:


> TTQ2K2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> This forum's motto is true because of the support from TTOC and TTF memberships. Your whining [smiley=bigcry.gif] is an embarassment to both TTOC membership and TTF membership. You owe all an apology for your pettiness. Grow a pair, apologize, and let's all get on with keeping this fourm the greatest TT resource in the world.
> cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong wrong wrong!.
> I am happy to pay the fees but the club could be better. I am stating an opinion supported by many as people have contributed here and elsewhere you think its whining that's your problem. If you think the truth is embarrassing then that's not so unusual and I am sorry if you are embarrassed not a view I have seen expressed by anybody else here. Again if you think it's petty I am sorry for you, I do a lot as a lay member to help the TTOC as well as paying my yearly dues. Sorry i'm not going to be goaded by irrational thinking, poor conclusions sheer bad manners and poor summing up. I think your just trying to get this thread locked. BTW here's an idea why don't you join the TTOC and do something constructive seeing as you live so far away buddy?
Click to expand...

OK buddy, I'll join. As for my first constructive act, I'll again ask you be constructive and apologize for your continued whining/pettiness. 
cheers

cheers


----------



## les

TTQ2K2 said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TTQ2K2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> This forum's motto is true because of the support from TTOC and TTF memberships. Your whining [smiley=bigcry.gif] is an embarassment to both TTOC membership and TTF membership. You owe all an apology for your pettiness. Grow a pair, apologize, and let's all get on with keeping this fourm the greatest TT resource in the world.
> cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong wrong wrong!.
> I am happy to pay the fees but the club could be better. I am stating an opinion supported by many as people have contributed here and elsewhere you think its whining that's your problem. If you think the truth is embarrassing then that's not so unusual and I am sorry if you are embarrassed not a view I have seen expressed by anybody else here. Again if you think it's petty I am sorry for you, I do a lot as a lay member to help the TTOC as well as paying my yearly dues. Sorry i'm not going to be goaded by irrational thinking, poor conclusions sheer bad manners and poor summing up. I think your just trying to get this thread locked. BTW here's an idea why don't you join the TTOC and do something constructive seeing as you live so far away buddy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK buddy, I'll join. As for my first constructive act, I'll again ask you be constructive and apologize for your continued whining/pettiness.
> cheers
> 
> cheers
Click to expand...

 I am entitled to my opinion and will voice it whenever. Now how about you stop the personal insults and attack on me then? I made the original post which many have contributed to, not only contributed to but if you have read them all many have agreed and supported what I am saying. You don't so what you are entitled to your opinion as much as the next man now get over it and move on. I repeat I have nothing to apologise to anybody about. BTW well done for considering joining the TTOC that at least that is the correct thing to do. :wink:


----------



## TTQ2K2

TTQ2K2 said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TTQ2K2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> This forum's motto is true because of the support from TTOC and TTF memberships. Your whining [smiley=bigcry.gif] is an embarassment to both TTOC membership and TTF membership. You owe all an apology for your pettiness. Grow a pair, apologize, and let's all get on with keeping this fourm the greatest TT resource in the world.
> cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong wrong wrong!.
> I am happy to pay the fees but the club could be better. I am stating an opinion supported by many as people have contributed here and elsewhere you think its whining that's your problem. If you think the truth is embarrassing then that's not so unusual and I am sorry if you are embarrassed not a view I have seen expressed by anybody else here. Again if you think it's petty I am sorry for you, I do a lot as a lay member to help the TTOC as well as paying my yearly dues. Sorry i'm not going to be goaded by irrational thinking, poor conclusions sheer bad manners and poor summing up. I think your just trying to get this thread locked. BTW here's an idea why don't you join the TTOC and do something constructive seeing as you live so far away buddy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK buddy, I'll join. As for my first constructive act, I'll again ask you be constructive and apologize for your continued whining/pettiness.
> cheers
> 
> cheers
Click to expand...

Done. TTOC order number 3991.
cheers.


----------



## phodge

Get a grip people!! :roll:

We haven't had a rep in the Thames Valley area since NaughTTy resigned 2 years ago, and we don't see it as a problem.

I organise a meet once a month, and we normally have 1 or 2 new members at each one. We have a couple of committee members who come along when they can, and that keeps us in touch with what we need to know.

But mainly we just get on with doing our own thing, and enjoying our TTs. We don't feel hard done by, or ignored by the club.

And, for the record, I am a paid up member of TTOC. I find that I save more on my insurance each year by being an 'owners club member' than the membership costs me. I appreciate the 'free' magazines that I receive - Graham, Kell and the old crew did a fantastic job, and John, Dani and the new team are continuing in the same way.

Stop complaining and start enjoying!


----------



## les

TTQ2K2 said:


> Done. TTOC order number 3991.
> cheers.


 Welcome to the TTOC 
BTW make sure you get them to put the TTOC banner under your avatar/ name top right of each post on here to let all know you are a member.


----------



## les

phodge said:


> Get a grip people!! :roll:
> 
> We haven't had a rep in the Thames Valley area since NaughTTy resigned 2 years ago, and we don't see it as a problem.
> 
> I organise a meet once a month, and we normally have 1 or 2 new members at each one. We have a couple of committee members who come along when they can, and that keeps us in touch with what we need to know.
> 
> But mainly we just get on with doing our own thing, and enjoying our TTs. We don't feel hard done by, or ignored by the club.
> 
> And, for the record, I am a paid up member of TTOC. I find that I save more on my insurance each year by being an 'owners club member' than the membership costs me. I appreciate the 'free' magazines that I receive - Graham, Kell and the old crew did a fantastic job, and John, Dani and the new team are continuing in the same way.
> 
> Stop complaining and start enjoying!


 Did you know that a regional rep is responsible for more than just organising meets and cruises? I hear Paul (the reps coordinator redscouse) has a list of duties and responsibilities an area rep takes on. I haven't seen it myself but I understand its more than the above. Maybe worth you asking to find out more and what if anything your area maybe missing out on by not having an area rep that's if your in the least bit interested (no offence meant by that)


----------



## audimad

matt9238 said:


> This post is hilarious


 I think so too, why can't we all just get along?


----------



## mighTy Tee

les said:


> phodge said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get a grip people!! :roll:
> 
> We haven't had a rep in the Thames Valley area since NaughTTy resigned 2 years ago, and we don't see it as a problem.
> 
> I organise a meet once a month, and we normally have 1 or 2 new members at each one. We have a couple of committee members who come along when they can, and that keeps us in touch with what we need to know.
> 
> But mainly we just get on with doing our own thing, and enjoying our TTs. We don't feel hard done by, or ignored by the club.
> 
> And, for the record, I am a paid up member of TTOC. I find that I save more on my insurance each year by being an 'owners club member' than the membership costs me. I appreciate the 'free' magazines that I receive - Graham, Kell and the old crew did a fantastic job, and John, Dani and the new team are continuing in the same way.
> 
> Stop complaining and start enjoying!
> 
> 
> 
> Did you know that a regional rep is responsible for more than just organising meets and cruises? I hear Paul (the reps coordinator redscouse) has a list of duties and responsibilities an area rep takes on. I haven't seen it myself but I understand its more than the above. Maybe worth you asking to find out more and what if anything your area maybe missing out on by not having an area rep that's if your in the least bit interested (no offence meant by that)
Click to expand...

I fully agree with Penny.

As for your comments Les, as regional South Coast Rep, I endeavour to promote the TTOC with the limited time and resource that I have. I resigned from that post about 18 months ago and hoped someone would take up the good work. However as no-one was willing to come forward, I took the post on again about 3 months ago. I have said that if someone comes along who wants to take on the role and is able to give better service to the TTOC in my region I would happily step aside.

I read with interest your comments about your regional rep, and I cant help thinking that maybe that rep is holding on to his post because no-one is willing to take up his mantle? Maybe your regional members should approach the rep and TTOC committee and offer a new face (you?) for the rep position?


----------



## TTQ2K2

Les wrote:


> I am entitled to my opinion and will voice it whenever. Now how about you stop the personal insults and attack on me then? I made the original post which many have contributed to, not only contributed to but if you have read them all many have agreed and supported what I am saying. You don't so what you are entitled to your opinion as much as the next man now get over it and move on. I repeat I have nothing to apologise to anybody about. BTW well done for considering joining the TTOC that at least that is the correct thing to do. Les.


Yes, you are entitled to your opinion my fellow ttoc member and I have read all of them. Including the first several replies that were not in support of your post. I still maintain that as a minimum you owe an apology to all TTF non-TToc members for the following insult in your original post:


> ...However what I find a bit hard to swallow is that there are a lot of members on here who are not members of the TTOC. *They pay nothing but get a lot out of it*. ...


 Intentionally or not, you implied we were moochers and free-loaders. Taking but not giving. The forum is filled with good technical and non-technical advice, recommendations and suggestions given by non-TTOC members

The assumptions in the OP regarding TTF and TTOC were wrong. They led to the above insult. I regret that you feel that my asking you to take responsiblility for your words is somehow a personal attack on you. I withdraw the whining, pettiness, and man-up statements. But the words above were yours, are in context, and you must take responsibility for them. It's your turn to do the correct thing.

cheers


----------



## silveraudi225

THIS THREAD NEEDS TO BE LOCKED


----------



## Redscouse

matt9238 said:


> THIS THREAD NEEDS TO BE LOCKED


I dont think it does buddy

People are entitled to their opinion, and until it gets ugly it will stay open 

Paul


----------



## les

matt9238 said:


> THIS THREAD NEEDS TO BE LOCKED


 and the reason being?..Free speech maybe? Lots of good questions answers and further questions have been raised so whats wrong with that? Also you know what they say if you dint like something don't read it. Lots of people are having their say and why shouldn't they? No need to shout BTW we can all read and hear what you are saying. Some people may want to get this locked for their own agenda. We have different views and opinions and even agreements. I suggest if you don't like this thread then don't read it it really is as simple as that.


----------



## phodge

Redscouse, are you able to publish a list of an area reps responsibilties?

I have considered being a rep a number of times over the last two years and would be interested in what is expected of one.


----------



## les

mighTy Tee said:


> As for your comments Les, as regional South Coast Rep, I endeavour to promote the TTOC with the limited time and resource that I have. I resigned from that post about 18 months ago and hoped someone would take up the good work. However as no-one was willing to come forward, I took the post on again about 3 months ago. I have said that if someone comes along who wants to take on the role and is able to give better service to the TTOC in my region I would happily step aside.
> 
> Not sure why you felt the need to say that as thats simply not an issue at all and in no way resembles the situation with the NW rep. Good on you for doing what you can to further the TTOC and do what you are able until somebody comes along to give it more time as you imply. I don't think you would get an argument from anybody here on your input as a rep. Your also a regular contributer here and I am sure you do what you are able within your time constraints.
> 
> I read with interest your comments about your regional rep, and I cant help thinking that maybe that rep is holding on to his post because no-one is willing to take up his mantle? Maybe your regional members should approach the rep and TTOC committee and offer a new face (you?) for the rep position?


If you have read all the posts not just my posts but from others within the NW region you will find most the answers to your questions. We have a rep who's inactive and has been so for 2.1/2 years so to all intensive purposes we don't have one and havent for a long time now. Personally I am sick of the whole debate, it's been done to death. The Chairman of the TTOC agrees the committee have failed (despite promises) to sort the situation out however Nem as stated it will be during this coming week. The fact is for most things (not all) we have managed quite well without a rep this as been stated by me, Tony Rigby and Mark Davis amongst others in posts on the thread. This topic is not about the NW rep however so I would suggest anybody wanting to add their 2 pence worth ( which they are more than welcome to do) they use the thread created by Steve Collier. Thanks.


----------



## les

phodge said:


> Redscouse, are you able to publish a list of an area reps responsibilties?
> 
> I have considered being a rep a number of times over the last two years and would be interested in what is expected of one.


 Hi phodge may I sugest you PM Paul (aka redscouse) with your request as he may not read your post on here.


----------



## les

TTQ2K2 said:


> Yes, you are entitled to your opinion my fellow ttoc member and I have read all of them. Including the first several replies that were not in support of your post. I still maintain that as a minimum you owe an apology to all TTF non-TToc members for the following insult in your original post:
> 
> So some dont support what I said like you fine thats called democarcy and free speach I never for once expected all to agree with me that would be very nieve indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...However what I find a bit hard to swallow is that there are a lot of members on here who are not members of the TTOC. *They pay nothing but get a lot out of it*. ...
> 
> 
> 
> Intentionally or not, you implied we were moochers and free-loaders. Taking but not giving. The forum is filled with good technical and non-technical advice, recommendations and suggestions given by non-TTOC members.
> 
> Its it not true the members on here who are not members of the TTOC do in fact enjoy many of the benefits of the TTOC then? Do these none TTOC members pay anything towards the upkeep of the TTOC while enjoying some of the very benefits the TTOC members are helping to support by being members and paying their subs? I do find it a bit hard to swallow as I know many do. I make no apology for that but I am sorry if you felt in some way embarrassed or attacked by my thoughts and feelings as above. The above is what I was saying and I stand by it, some will agree (mainly TTOC members) some will disagree (mainly non TTOC members) That' life. Now if I had attacked any individual wrongly then I would apologize but I am sorry I don't see it that way at all and in fact I have a lot of support for what I have said. I note you haven't challenged Mark Davies for instance esp as I did say he put it exactly into context and so much better than I could. Mark understood what I was saying. Also Tony Ridgy who's been far more direct and challenging than I have but I will forgive you that and. :wink:
> 
> The assumptions in the OP regarding TTF and TTOC were wrong. They led to the above insult. I regret that you feel that my asking you to take responsibility for your words is somehow a personal attack on you. I withdraw the whining, pettiness, and man-up statements. But the words above were yours, are in context, and you must take responsibility for them. It's your turn to do the correct thing.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

 I have done the "correct thing" IMO as you say by explaining as above, you either accept it or you don't. We can agree to disagree we can even agree on some points but I have never once got personal or reverted to attacks on an individual who voiced his or her opinions opposite to mine and that includes you. I have nothing further to say on the matter as far as I am concerned all I have said has been in good faith and much have been nothing more than questions some of which have been answered some not. I have no intention to carry on squabbling with you as it serves no purpose at all so I will end my part here.

Thanks.

Les. Fellow TTOC member for 3.1/2 years.


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

FFS... everyone makes there comments but frget to answer my question... :twisted:


----------



## les

tony_rigby_uk said:


> FFS... everyone makes there comments but frget to answer my question... :twisted:


 Shudup! vee ask zee questions, for you tony zee var is over. [smiley=rifle.gif]


----------



## Mark Davies

A lot said today! Pity it got side-tracked with issues about reps which perhaps should be kept to their own thread.

There seem to be entrenched views. For instance, there are those who say, "I love the TTOC and am very happy to pay my money. I think those people who volunteer their services are great and we shouldn't be moaning".

I don't disagree with you - I feel exactly the same. However, it strikes me that the TTOC survives solely on that sentiment and very little else. As a business model, relying on goodwill and charity is rarely a succesful, progressive strategy.

I started thinking about this when my membership renewal came round and I thought to myself, "What am I actually getting for this?" My conclusion was, well actually, very little. Basically, the magazine. But then, I can buy the magazine for £3 an issue, which is cheaper. I get the opportunity to go to the AGM and vote. But then, I couldn't get to the AGM this year and as nobody sent me a postal ballot form didn't get to vote or exercise any rights of a club member. So essentially, all I'm actually doing is making a monetary contribution to support the club. I'll hasten to add, I gladly paid my fees, for exactly that reason.

So let's make my position clear. *I'm not complaining.*

However, the TTOC and ******** have developed into a structure that really isn't workable. It's like a country club, with health club, gym, golf course and professional trainers and instructors which charges for membership and relies on that income to stay in business but which is completely open for absolutely anybody to come wandering in and use the facilities completely free of charge. _Some_ people would still pay out of loyalty to the club, _some_ people would still pay out of a sense of obligation - but _many_ people simply wouldn't spend a penny and make the most of it. What is certain, absolutely _*nobody*_ would ever dream of setting up a club like that.

Nobody has set the TTOC and ******** up like that - nor if we were starting from scratch from today would it be done like that - but that's what it has evolved into and that's what we've got. It has inherant problems - as I have said, there really isn't a great deal of incentive to join the club other than for those who just like to 'belong' - people like me, and you. But are there enough people like us for the club to survive? I worry that there may not be.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that the ******** should change, that it should be for members only or that there should be charge for it. It's absolutely brilliant as it is and shouldn't be touched. I'm not suggesting for a moment that the TTOC committe are not doing a good job - far from it they're all working very hard for no reward whatsoever and deserve nothing but praise.

However, I will come back to the point - 20,000 registered forum users and only 2000 paying TTOC members. That's a hell of a lot of potential club income not being tapped into. What a club we _could_ be!

I think we need to be asking those people who drive TTs, who use this forum but aren't members of the TTOC, well - why not? And what could convince you to join? I think we need to be creative and think of what *new* benefits we can think of that will persuade people to take that extra step from TT ownership and active forum use to becoming TTOC members, because clearly at the moment the simple sense of 'belonging' isn't enough for one hell of a lot of people.

I'll be putting my mind to that question to see if I can come up with something. If we all did I'm sure we'll come up some great ideas - and hopefully help this club grow from strength to strength.


----------



## Nem

I was certainly right when I said "you lot can kick up a fuss faster than I can read it" only a day back 

Firstly, this is possibly one of the most usefull posts the TTOC section has seen in quite a while. Usefull as we're actually getting a large amount of ideas and thoughts from a range of people.

Quick breakdown of a membership:

Magazine costs are currently about £3000 per issue for design and print, which works out at £3 per copy per issue.

In a 1 year membership you recieve 5 issues, one with your joining pack and the next 4 over the year. So £15 for magazines so far. Add on the 90p postage for the 4 issues, and £1.50 for the postage of the membership pack in the first place we're up to £20.10. Add £1 for window stickers, £4 for the car badge, and £3 for a personalised membership card and we're at £28.10 already.

At that I've not added anything on for the printing of lables on every envelope posted, or the lables themselves or the envelopes. Or the 10 flyers in every membership pack and their printing costs, or the letter which sometimes is included with the magazine and that paper and printing.

Or come to that matter the gazebos of flags and banners which we use at events, and the list goes on... I know we get some help from advertising in the magazine, but we are talking hundreds and not thousands a a figure. The only area we actually make money is on the club merchandise which is put straight back to use buying things to keep the club running. As with events, they are run to cover their costs to the point we can afford to organise them.

Anyway, that is a very rough breakdown of what you physically pay for with a membership. But I know that isn't the point Les was getting at when starting this thread, but it has been asked but others as it has progressed and I felt the need to explain.

The other half of the "worth" of a membership is about what extra that membership will provide you. Our biggest problem here is knowledge and the information and communication which the TT Forum provides it's members. This is something we cannot rival, and more to the point we have no need to rival. The question about TTF members to TTOC members isn't really something to compare, I've no figures but I do wonder how many of the 20000 TTF members ever come back more than once, any more than a "I've got this problem" and they get an answer and never come back. They will never be a TTOC members as they have no desire to be involved. Thats not to say there are people on the forum who are not members who could be. Which comes back to the original point about what extra do you get for being a club member?

Discounts and group buys are always a problem, we do have TTOC only discounts but a lot of suppliers are happier to have a bigger audience to entertain. Also al ot of suppliers will simply give discount by being told they are an "owners club" member, OR a "forum member" and it doesn't matter which, it's more hassle for them to have to clarify it than to just give the discount so it becomes a problem to secure these sort of deals exclusivly for the TTOC. We are aproaching dealers for this sort of thing tho, we already have one or two main dealers who are working with us, and a few more in discussions. We also have an exclusive deal with Audi UK Merchandise which will be finalised very shortly which will be TTOC specific.

Events are another area where we could take the chance to have a member and non member price. We always do this with the national evenTT so you will save a few pounds being a member there. The problem again is that events like going to italy etc etc if they are run by the TTOC are again run to cover their costs and not to make money. There are people who would start jumping up and down if non members were paying more money simply as they are not a member, there are others who would think it perfectly normal of course and they would probably be right, but it's still an issue. Plus with the way this last year has gone the club hasn't been in a position to put something like this on.

Having said all of that I hope you can see that we are trying to improve, we have some very dedicated people in place in both the committee and rep positions. The NW excluded, but I said I will sort this and I will keep my word. I'm going to go back through this thread and pick out the useful ideas and see what I can do with them. So I'll welcome and more comments on how we could improve the experience as a TTOC member both from a members view and a non members stance.


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

Mark Davies said:


> However, I will come back to the point - 20,000 registered forum users and only 2000 paying TTOC members. That's a hell of a lot of potential club income not being tapped into. What a club we _could_ be!
> 
> I think we need to be asking those people who drive TTs, who use this forum but aren't members of the TTOC, well - why not? And what could convince you to join? I think we need to be creative and think of what *new* benefits we can think of that will persuade people to take that extra step from TT ownership and active forum use to becoming TTOC members, because clearly at the moment the simple sense of 'belonging' isn't enough for one hell of a lot of people.
> 
> I'll be putting my mind to that question to see if I can come up with something. If we all did I'm sure we'll come up some great ideas - and hopefully help this club grow from strength to strength.


Isn't that what this thread is about  ... and i think "mattb" reiterated the point on the other post regarding a NW rep... we have no rep so why renew... that'd be point 1) on the list....

1) Active TTOC reps who are encouraging members of the TTF to become a part of the TTOC by doing meets and flexing what assets the TTOC have to make these people who come to meets but are TTF members feel like they are missing out on something, be it offers, mag's, merchandise, whatever the club has to offer.... if you don't know and not aware of the perks (if any) then why would you join..

and as i've said before i'm a member and want the club to prosper this post is about ways of doing that... yes the rep issue is high on my adgenda, as this has been gone on far too long and i have a serious fear that it may well cause NW people to not renem.. i could be selfish and say well it won't really affect the NW people as i know it won't we'll still d the same... but i'm a proud member of the club and WANT it to thrive... oh and just spent £80+ on merchandise alone today via the TTOC shop.... supporting the club....

Oh and New As chairman I think your about the only person who has seen the true intentions of what the responses from many were trying to achive... Ideas to make the club grow.. and thanks for that !!


----------



## Mark Davies

Nem,

Thanks for the response, and again the point isn't to question whether the £30 is value for money. I don't say that for your sake as I'm sure you get the point - it's more to stay off the inevitable posts that will come along those lines and distract the discussion needlessly from the pertinent point. Frankly, I'd be happy to pay more - and I think we ought to consider that possibility if it is necessary to provide new benefits.

Of course there aren't 20,000 active members on the forum, but it is an indication of the potential interest (how many TTs are there on UK roads, I wonder?). But the numbers you state regarding the magazines are interesting. I presume if you are printing only 1000 copies of each issue then there are in fact less than 1000 paying members - only about half of what I'd thought there might be.

I think we could do better and as I've explained I think the main thing that is holding us back is that the Forum is so good and acts so well as a club in its own right (it is after all effectively the life-blood of TTOC) that it inevitably becomes difficult to convince people to join up to the TTOC. I think we need to get our marketing heads on, get imaginative and see if we can come up with some ideas to make TTOC more attractive as an _addition_ to ********.

Perhaps we could take a look at what other car clubs offer and see if there are any ideas we could borrow.


----------



## Nem

The TTOC hovers around the 500 member number, and has done for about 4 or 5 years. It seems pretty steady and we are actually at one of the highest points currently from recent years.

We've thought before about having a "members only" section of the TT forum, but then in addition to all of the other forum sections we can never find anything to put in there which would command payment. So that ide has always been left as a non-starter.

There are a huge number of TT's on the road, discussions and idea of how to approach them or make them aware of the TTOC have been taking place since the birth of the club and other than the forum, the car flyers and general word of mouth we never get much further. Advertising in even something like Audi Driver magazine costs more than we make in a year from our own advertising revenue so we simply can't afford to take that route. A huge amount of main Audi dealers have been approached and even they shy away from putting our flyers on the stand or offer them to their customers.

As I've posted above, any idea will be considered


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

Has anyone though of seeing if a couple of the sponsers would... give new tt's that show up at there premesis the nod to where we are... it doesn't have to be a flyer o anything just word of mouth by them... I know awesome GTI now have the pages of absolutte from the rolling road day displayed on their waiting room wall... which i think is a nice touch both ways... for them and us..... perhaps more ideas like that... ya know possibly a Group fitting day on a particular product could make the mags that are sat in these waiting rooms ect... i know awesome do have a few editions of absolutte in there waiting room but not sure if this is members who have dropped them off once read or they actually get a copy but thats another idea..


----------



## Nem

We've tried leaving coppies of the mags in places like that, and they go missing after a very short time. It was even tested once by leaving two coppies of an issue in a Audi main dealer, and they were both missing after 3 days when we went back to check :?

The people who advertise in the magazine always get some coppies to display the same as you mention about Awesome and their article in the mag.

Please don't think I'm just knocking ideas, but we really have tried a good number of things already


----------



## les

Hi Nem and good to get the responses you have posted, thank you.
I am not going to whinge etc (I wasn't in the first instance anyway) and in fact I applaud what you and the committee have and are doing with limited resources. 
Regarding leaving mags at dealers, yes I agree that don't work (tried that myself) However what about A5 flyer's? surely we could leave a small batch at dealers and of course our sponsors and at the bottom there could be a part to fill in requesting membership with the TTOC address on to send your check or whatever (paypal for instance) and a link to the TTOC webs site along with other information on the club. This would be far cheaper than leaving mags and even more informative about the benefits of becoming a member of the TTOC IMO. Now these could go to every regional rep and perhaps there could be a space on it for the reps telephone number if the prospective member wanted to find out more and speak to somebody like the rep. ( see I told you there is more to being a rep than organising meets lol) If every rep visited their local Audi dealer and the dealer put them in the waiting area of their show room we would get to a lot more people into the club with such flyers. I have done this for a non car related club in the past and it worked bringing in many new members ( all pre Internet all be it) 
Finally I am sorry if this threads given you an almighty headache, it most certainly wasn't my intention and I think you know me better than that anyway and know I only have the interest of the club at heart. I am also glad this thread has given you a few ideas which you say you are going to explore, that's great. Ideas for the club should not just come from the committee and reps but from the ordinary members who may well have some expertize to tap into with ideas and suggestions as I am sure you will agree and are in fact taking on board.

Cheers.


----------



## Nem

Thanks Les. Just to answer that idea also, we bought (about 3 years back) a load of clear perspex flyer holders and sent two to every rep along with a huge stock of the flyers. The flyers were 1/3 A4 size ones so larger than the cards we currently have. Again these were left in dealers, with permission, and we even put details on the back of the holders for them to contact us when they ran out of flyers. We never had any calls and I don't think any of them are still in the dealers, the one I took to Nottingham Audi was gone after about 3 months.

I'm happy to try this again tho, it's not a huge cost so I'll look into this as a possibility particularly as we now have a couple of dealers who are trying to work with us.

Also with the general questions about the cards we hand out and the details on them, we are going to redesign them very soon. We have almost run out of the current ones, but with fund as they have been this year we couldn't just bin them and make new ones. They will have a clear link on them to both the TTOC and the ********, and also will have white space on the back for the rep, or member, handing them out to put their contact details on them.


----------



## Mark Davies

I don't think the problem is one of publicity. Are there really any registered Forum users who are not aware of the existence of TTOC?

Certainly there is a potential un-tapped market of TT owners who are aware of neither ******** or TTOC - I'd owned my car for 3 years before I was aware of either. So, yes that is something we could look at. However, I think before we spend effort sorting that issue we'd do best to address why people who _already_ are aware of TTOC still don't feel inclined to join up. Otherwise we'd probably just go to all the effort of a publicity campaign simply to recruit new users for the Forum. That in itself is no bad thing, but it doesn't bring funds into the club.

I'd love the hear the views of those here who haven't joined the club. Do they just find the idea of joining a car club a bit naff and so nothing would persuade them to do it? Or is it as I suspect and they have looked at it and thought it's not really offering anything that they haven't already got?

I think more people would join if it gave them something tangible and exclusive that was clearly worth the fee. If for instance there were attractive events or trips that were open to members only. Or if there were discounts offered that were more widely available and more readily useable. For instance, most of the discounts currently on offer are very geographically specific and are not necessarily things that people would regularly buy. Handy for some but certainly not for everybody. I've been well aware of what discounts are available for a good two years now but have never been able to make use of any of them.

Just as an example, something that may be more useful would be a discount deal with a major national tyre supplier - something that we all need to buy at some point and that would be available to us all wherever we happen to be. A 10% discount on tyres would save me enough money every year to more than justify the membership fee.

Or, this year's trip to the Isle of Man - it was an excellent weekend away! Make it an annual event (hopefully with negotiated group discounts for the ferry and hotel) and exclusive to TTOC members. Being able to get on a trip like that may be enough to persuade some.

Just a couple of thoughts I had today, and I'm sure we could come up with more.


----------



## Redscouse

Mark,

I'd just like to say i like your idea above about the tyres. This would benefit us all and i can see why non members would then want to sign up.

Good shout and i think if nobody picks this idea up in the committee, i will push this forward and see what i can do (if you dont mind of course)

Nice one Mark 

Paul


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## audimad

I contacted Chris Knott today for an insurance quote and told them i am a member of the TTOC and they replied "which one". They said there are two, the TTOC and the TT Forum. I am confused. :?


----------



## les

audimad said:


> I contacted Chris Knott today for an insurance quote and told them i am a member of the TTOC and they replied "which one". They said there are two, the TTOC and the TT Forum. I am confused. :?


Tell them both. TT Forum is here TTOC is the club of which you are also a member unlike the majority who are TT Forum members. :?


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## Hoggy

audimad said:


> I contacted Chris Knott today for an insurance quote and told them i am a member of the TTOC and they replied "which one". They said there are two, the TTOC and the TT Forum. I am confused. :?


Hi, IMO this is the problem, even the sponsers don't know the difference, unless of course the discount between the TTF & the TTOC is different. (I doubt it).
Hoggy.


----------



## Nem

Hoggy said:


> audimad said:
> 
> 
> 
> I contacted Chris Knott today for an insurance quote and told them i am a member of the TTOC and they replied "which one". They said there are two, the TTOC and the TT Forum. I am confused. :?
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, IMO this is the problem, even the sponsers don't know the difference, unless of course the discount between the TTF & the TTOC is different. (I doubt it).
> Hoggy.
Click to expand...

This is exactly the problem I outlined in an above post. :?

The main issue with making trips or events TTOC only for members of the club is numbers. We've found that to make some of the trips we have organised in the past viable we've had to invite everybody as there are not enough TTOC members to make it exclusive. Not a great situation I know as exclusive events would certainly be a draw on people, and to be honest something which I will look at again to see if it would be possible. Also with the number of other trips abroad currently being planned by forum members the market is slightly flooded  Not that it's a bad think, as it benefits all of us, but to then try another event on top of those specific for TTOC members I don't think we'd make the numbers work.


----------



## audimad

Hoggy said:


> audimad said:
> 
> 
> 
> I contacted Chris Knott today for an insurance quote and told them i am a member of the TTOC and they replied "which one". They said there are two, the TTOC and the TT Forum. I am confused. :?
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, IMO this is the problem, even the sponsers don't know the difference, unless of course the discount between the TTF & the TTOC is different. (I doubt it).
> Hoggy.
Click to expand...

 I was told the discount was the same for the TTOC and the TT Forum. I explained that the TTOC was the the only owners club and the forum was web based. So paid up members of the TTOC can get a discount from Chris Knott and so can non paying members of the TT forum. At no point though was i asked for any proof of membership. Maybe Chris Knott insurance should only give discount to paid up members of the TTOC and you have to provide your membership details, number, expiry date, etc.


----------



## Hoggy

*Audimad wrote*_...I was told the discount was the same for the TTOC and the TT Forum_
Oh dear, I wonder why some TTF members don't sign up to TTOC.
Hoggy.


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## Wallsendmag

Talking from my own point of view i.e not a committee member, I joined the club for other reasons. While discounts are nice like Joe I don't mind paying my £25 membership fee for a sense of belonging. As a committee member I don't mind paying myself to drive thousands of miles every year to attend meeting . Ask not what your club can do for you , ask what you can do for your club.(with apologies to John F Kennedy)


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## les

Hoggy said:


> *Audimad wrote*_...I was told the discount was the same for the TTOC and the TT Forum_
> Oh dear, I wonder why some TTF members don't sign up to TTOC.
> Hoggy.


 Exactly and Just one of the reasons I stared this thread :?


----------



## John-H

Well, I first thought that it cost money I could spend elsewhere and didn't join but then when I wanted to get some oil I worked out that the amount I'd save on the Opie Oils discount paid for the club membership - so I joined. At that time I think it was a TTOC discount only.

Then I went to my first meet organised by Davidg: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57609 , then it was one of Dani's Beehive runs and after that I was hooked 

It's an obvious avenue to attract members - offer them a discount that effectively pays for membership. But then what really hooked me long term was meeting some really nice people that liked driving cars too. So there's a thing - we all need to really nice and friendly to attract members and not put them off :wink:  :roll:


----------



## les

John-H said:


> Well, I first thought that it cost money I could spend elsewhere and didn't join but then when I wanted to get some oil I worked out that the amount I'd save on the Opie Oils discount paid for the club membership - so I joined. At that time I think it was a TTOC discount only.
> 
> Then I went to my first meet organised by Davidg: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57609 , then it was one of Dani's Beehive runs and after that I was hooked
> 
> It's an obvious avenue to attract members - offer them a discount that effectively pays for membership. But then what really hooked me long term was meeting some really nice people that liked driving cars too. So there's a thing - we all need to really nice and friendly to attract members and not put them off :wink:  :roll:


Not many of the names on there are still about John but I guess its hardly surprising given how long ago that was. Doesn't time fly when you are enjoying yourself :wink:


----------



## Hev

John-H said:


> Well, I first thought that it cost money I could spend elsewhere and didn't join but then when I wanted to get some oil I worked out that the amount I'd save on the Opie Oils discount paid for the club membership - so I joined. At that time I think it was a TTOC discount only.
> 
> Then I went to my first meet organised by Davidg: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57609 , then it was one of Dani's Beehive runs and after that I was hooked
> 
> It's an obvious avenue to attract members - offer them a discount that effectively pays for membership. But then what really hooked me long term was meeting some really nice people that liked driving cars too. So there's a thing - we all need to really nice and friendly to attract members and not put them off :wink:  :roll:


OMG!!!! I remember that meet........we got sooooooooooooooooooo soaked!

Hev x


----------



## Wallsendmag

Hev said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I first thought that it cost money I could spend elsewhere and didn't join but then when I wanted to get some oil I worked out that the amount I'd save on the Opie Oils discount paid for the club membership - so I joined. At that time I think it was a TTOC discount only.
> 
> Then I went to my first meet organised by Davidg: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57609 , then it was one of Dani's Beehive runs and after that I was hooked
> 
> It's an obvious avenue to attract members - offer them a discount that effectively pays for membership. But then what really hooked me long term was meeting some really nice people that liked driving cars too. So there's a thing - we all need to really nice and friendly to attract members and not put them off :wink:  :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> OMG!!!! I remember that meet........we got sooooooooooooooooooo soaked!
> 
> Hev x
Click to expand...

A common theme to TTOC meets


----------



## Hev

wallsendmag said:


> A common theme to TTOC meets











You'd know all about that eh?!

Hev x


----------



## John-H

Hev said:


> wallsendmag said:
> 
> 
> 
> A common theme to TTOC meets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'd know all about that eh?!
> 
> Hev x
Click to expand...

You tease :lol:


----------



## Mark Davies

John-H said:


> But then what really hooked me long term was meeting some really nice people that liked driving cars too. So there's a thing - we all need to really nice and friendly to attract members and not put them off :wink:  :roll:


Of course, *BUT* you don't need to be a TTOC member to go to the meets.

I don't know. Perhaps there's a natural saturation point and we're only ever going to run at the 500 member mark, and people will come and go as they buy and sell their TTs. Maybe everyone who is ever going to be a TTOC member already has. It's interesting to see that the thread asking non-members why they haven't joined hasn't really attracted too much response, so there doesn't seem to be a bunch of undecided people who have been thinking 'if only there was something else then I'd join'.

My concerns were voiced because I know the club's finances are very tight, which was evident from the downsizing of this year's evenTT, so I was pondering whether there was something hindering the expansion of the club and preventing growth of income. I think I've made my theory clear, but maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. That said, there's certainly no harm in always trying to come up with new ideas to make the club as attractive as it could possibly be.

In the meantime, perhaps we should consider raising the membership fees. What has been clear is that there are few people who are worried about their fee being strict value for money. It seems that predominantly we see our fee more as a voluntary contribution to the club's running costs as much as anything else. I know I'd be happy to pay more and the feeling I've had from responses here is that most others would too. So, if it makes us more comfortable financially, why not put it up to £40?


----------



## Wallsendmag

Mark Davies said:


> My concerns were voiced because I know the club's finances are very tight, which was evident from the downsizing of this year's evenTT, so I was pondering whether there was something hindering the expansion of the club and preventing growth of income. I think I've made my theory clear, but maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. That said, there's certainly no harm in always trying to come up with new ideas to make the club as attractive as it could possibly be.


The main reason for downsizing this years evenTT was he ridiculous loss made by last years event. [smiley=bigcry.gif] . To be honest we are in the best financial state at the minute since I joined the committee and I don't have to worry about getting paid for the postage and such like any more. 
ps posting your new membership card in the morning :wink:


----------



## rustyintegrale

Hi Guys,

I've been reading this thread with interest and as someone whose subscription has just run out I'm probably a good example of the 'punter' you might want to renew. :wink:

Mark, I really don't think an increase in subscription fees is the way to go to build the membership. Okay it might fill the coffers but for how long? If it puts people off from renewing then slowly that additional income will dwindle away. Why not keep the 'base' sub. as it is now and ask for a volunteer donation if the new subscriber feels that he'd like to give more? Or how about offering tiered membership so the more you pay the more privileges you get - like reserved parking at TTOC meets or preferential rooms at the AGM - that kind of thing. Basic level membership could also receive AbsoluTTe by PDF only thereby saving print costs.

But none of this addresses the core reasons why people aren't joining in the numbers you'd like.

I agree that the 'benefits' that TTOC membership brings have been belittled by the fact that virtually anyone can ask for the same. But what else is stopping them?

I have a few ideas, but no proof to back them up. Just some gut feelings...

*1 The Club has in image problem.*
Whereas the TTF is a vibrant place filled with a real mix of people, I suspect that the Club is perceived to be full of 'old skool' enthusiasts more interested in authenticity than modding for example.

*2 The Club committee is a 'secret society'.*
The TTF is perceived as open because it's a free forum whereas the Club seems to make decisions about Club interests behind closed doors and then just 'announces' what it is doing.

*3 The AGM is not open to the 'voice' of the membership.*
Am I right in thinking we were supposed to get voting opportunities even if we didn't attend the AGM? I don't recall seeing how that panned out. Plus it's only this year that the 'constitution' seems to have been publicised and adhered to.

*4 The TTOC committee does not take part in day-to-day conversation.*
With a few exceptions the committee does not seem to be present day-to-day on the forum. Like it or not the TTF is the hub for everything TT and that is where we all congregate. It's also the place to gauge opinions.

*5 The TTOC is out of touch with the needs of today's TT owner.*
For pretty much the reason given above, I'm not sure the Club meets the needs of the bulk of the ownership. It just appears to cater for the traditionalist.

Guys, these are only thoughts - I might be completely wrong but if it causes discussion amongst those that just 'won't join' then maybe you'll get some answers. I hope so. 

Good luck with it.

cheers

rich


----------



## Wallsendmag

rustyintegrale said:


> *1 The Club has in image problem.*
> Whereas the TTF is a vibrant place filled with a real mix of people, I suspect that the Club is perceived to be full of 'old skool' enthusiasts more interested in authenticity than modding for example.Yellow,Redscouse Nem and CamV6s car's are fairly heavily modified
> 
> *2 The Club committee is a 'secret society'.*
> The TTF is perceived as open because it's a free forum whereas the Club seems to make decisions about Club interests behind closed doors and then just 'announces' what it is doing.This is more of a timing thing
> 
> *3 The AGM is not open to the 'voice' of the membership.*
> Am I right in thinking we were supposed to get voting opportunities even if we didn't attend the AGM? I don't recall seeing how that panned out. Plus it's only this year that the 'constitution' seems to have been publicised and adhered to.Don't tell me you missed that email, it was sent out by Mervyn well before the date of the AGM
> 
> *4 The TTOC committee does not take part in day-to-day conversation.*
> With a few exceptions the committee does not seem to be present day-to-day on the forum. Like it or not the TTF is the hub for everything TT and that is where we all congregate. It's also the place to gauge opinions.Yellow the two Pauls ,Dani, John ,Nick and myself are on here most of the time
> 
> *5 The TTOC is out of touch with the needs of today's TT owner.*
> For pretty much the reason given above, I'm not sure the Club meets the needs of the bulk of the ownership. It just appears to cater for the traditionalist.The two Pauls are just out of nappys I would of said we cover a broad spectrum
> 
> Guys, these are only thoughts - I might be completely wrong but if it causes discussion amongst those that just 'won't join' then maybe you'll get some answers. I hope so.
> 
> Good luck with it.
> 
> cheers
> 
> rich


----------



## Mark Davies

I didn't get an e-mail for proxy voting at the AGM either. I think something must have gone wrong there.


----------



## rustyintegrale

wallsendmag said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> 
> *1 The Club has in image problem.*
> Whereas the TTF is a vibrant place filled with a real mix of people, I suspect that the Club is perceived to be full of 'old skool' enthusiasts more interested in authenticity than modding for example.Yellow,Redscouse Nem and CamV6s car's are fairly heavily modified
> 
> *2 The Club committee is a 'secret society'.*
> The TTF is perceived as open because it's a free forum whereas the Club seems to make decisions about Club interests behind closed doors and then just 'announces' what it is doing.This is more of a timing thing
> 
> *3 The AGM is not open to the 'voice' of the membership.*
> Am I right in thinking we were supposed to get voting opportunities even if we didn't attend the AGM? I don't recall seeing how that panned out. Plus it's only this year that the 'constitution' seems to have been publicised and adhered to.Don't tell me you missed that email, it was sent out by Mervyn well before the date of the AGM
> 
> *4 The TTOC committee does not take part in day-to-day conversation.*
> With a few exceptions the committee does not seem to be present day-to-day on the forum. Like it or not the TTF is the hub for everything TT and that is where we all congregate. It's also the place to gauge opinions.Yellow the two Pauls ,Dani, John ,Nick and myself are on here most of the time
> 
> *5 The TTOC is out of touch with the needs of today's TT owner.*
> For pretty much the reason given above, I'm not sure the Club meets the needs of the bulk of the ownership. It just appears to cater for the traditionalist.The two Pauls are just out of nappys I would of said we cover a broad spectrum
> 
> Guys, these are only thoughts - I might be completely wrong but if it causes discussion amongst those that just 'won't join' then maybe you'll get some answers. I hope so.
> 
> Good luck with it.
> 
> cheers
> 
> rich
Click to expand...

You might know that, I may know that. But if the membership doesn't it makes no odds.

Like I said, it's 'perception'. Some people think McDonald's is quality food. :lol:


----------



## Wallsendmag

rustyintegrale said:


> Some people think McDonald's is quality food. :lol:


Sorry I don't see your point :roll:


----------



## jammyd

rustyintegrale said:


> *1 The Club has in image problem.*
> Whereas the TTF is a vibrant place filled with a real mix of people, I suspect that the Club is perceived to be full of 'old skool' enthusiasts more interested in authenticity than modding for example.
> 
> *2 The Club committee is a 'secret society'.*
> The TTF is perceived as open because it's a free forum whereas the Club seems to make decisions about Club interests behind closed doors and then just 'announces' what it is doing.
> 
> *3 The AGM is not open to the 'voice' of the membership.*
> Am I right in thinking we were supposed to get voting opportunities even if we didn't attend the AGM? I don't recall seeing how that panned out. Plus it's only this year that the 'constitution' seems to have been publicised and adhered to.
> 
> *4 The TTOC committee does not take part in day-to-day conversation.*
> With a few exceptions the committee does not seem to be present day-to-day on the forum. Like it or not the TTF is the hub for everything TT and that is where we all congregate. It's also the place to gauge opinions.
> 
> *5 The TTOC is out of touch with the needs of today's TT owner.*
> For pretty much the reason given above, I'm not sure the Club meets the needs of the bulk of the ownership. It just appears to cater for the traditionalist.


Hi Rich thanks for you comments they will be taken on board, in response though

*1 The Club has in image problem.*
I would hope that now we have some new blood running through the club that this is not the perception which is going to continue to be held by people. Myself and Redscouse have both brought a new flavour to the club, and as active forum members would hope that people could approach us more and more. As for not modding... Well Nem and Redscouse have 2 very nicely modded cars and are always looking for ways to further the modifications on their cars.

*2 The Club committee is a 'secret society'.*
Again I would hope with the changes which have come about over the last 12 months it would be considered a lot less of a secret club than it was. We want to allow people to have opinions and discussions and yes some of the follow up stuff is done behind closed doors but this is the case with any society and business. We will be striving to be more transparent if thats what is wanted by people.

*3 The AGM is not open to the 'voice' of the membership.*
As a person who was not a member of the Committee before the AGM, I can say that I recieved a copy of the agenda and options on voting where it was possible to vote. I do agree that this did not amount to much, but that was down to the agenda at the time. as for the AGM itself, I can assure you we had some lively debate with at least 30 members there to make decisions for us, and no decisions were made by the committee alone.

I think the fact the constitution was published and readable prior to the AGM was a good step forward, and as mentioned before this attitude of openness can only benefit the club

*4 The TTOC committee does not take part in day-to-day conversation.*
I think you are wrong on this, The committee I would hope are seen to be active. if you look at number of posts etc we have the highest ever poster ( Yellow_TT) next is one of the top ten ( Wallsendmag ) then John-H and Dani I am also up these as a person who posts lot... most of it is rubbish but I am there 

*5 The TTOC is out of touch with the needs of today's TT owner.*
I again would disagree with you on this as mentioned with all the above...

I am not doing anything but putting my opinion over, remember I have only been on the committee 6 months and am yet to learn the ways of the force... oh hold on thats from a movie :roll: ...

What I am trying to say is I hope all those things will either disappear or not be an issue at all in the coming months


----------



## Matchu

For what it is worth, I had no preconceptions about the members of the TTOC or those that run it, I am "new" here and have no idea of the history etc. I have met a few of the NW chaps including the two Pauls at an Awesome GTI event a few months back....and had a good day...even though I was in a Polo...and no.....don't ask!

Anyway. I have signed up with the TTOC as I wanted to be a part of the club, e.g. coming along to the meets etc (if fate will allow..) and I was happy to pay the subs knowing things need to be paid for e.g. the magazines etc... I was not put off by any concerns about the club before joining..but then again I suppose I could have felt more compelled to join....i.e. felt there were more on offer by joining...

Anyway..oddly I feel a little like I'm intruding on someone elses "debate"...but actually it probably needs a few others with a fresh pair of eyes to make a few observations :wink:


----------



## rustyintegrale

wallsendmag said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some people think McDonald's is quality food. :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I don't see your point :roll:
Click to expand...

It's quite simple really. It doesn't matter how good you are or what you offer that you think will appeal. If people 'perceive' you as 'not delivering' what they expect then you won't win them over.

McDonalds offer pretty poor quality food but people think it's okay. Their marketing caters for the lowest common denominator and above. Do you see what I mean?

Guys, I'm not suggesting or implying that you are doing anything wrong. What you have to understand is that you are totally in touch with the Club day-to-day. For most members their only interaction with the TTOC is when they renew or by bumping into people at the National EvenTT or other TTOC attended events. So what you do and offer is often a mystery.

By contrast the TTF encourages interaction every day and people 'get to know' people and see who they can interact with or not. Either way they feel informed.

Cheers

rich


----------



## les

Matchu said:


> For what it is worth, I had no preconceptions about the members of the TTOC or those that run it, I am "new" here and have no idea of the history etc. I have met a few of the NW chaps including the two Pauls at an Awesome GTI event a few months back....and had a good day...even though I was in a Polo...and no.....don't ask!
> 
> Anyway. I have signed up with the TTOC as I wanted to be a part of the club, e.g. coming along to the meets etc (if fate will allow..) and I was happy to pay the subs knowing things need to be paid for e.g. the magazines etc... I was not put off by any concerns about the club before joining..but then again I suppose I could have felt more compelled to join....i.e. felt there were more on offer by joining...
> 
> Anyway..oddly I feel a little like I'm intruding on someone elses "debate"...but actually it probably needs a few others with a fresh pair of eyes to make a few observations :wink:


 Hi Matchu not sure if we have met before or not, perhaps you will be at the meet tomorrow night? (see the events forum) Anyway you will be very welcome to join us of course. Now get the TTOC logo under your name/avatar top left after each post so we know your one of us :wink:


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

HMM and Spurs's car was featured in absolutte this month and it is about as modded as you can get :lol: :lol:

I hear what everyone is saying here... but i think my point about the website and the events may have been missed...
8if you go to past events on the TTOC website http://www.ttoc.co.uk/website/viewforum.php?f=31 acording to that the last event was "Galway Trip 15/08/2008" if i knew nothing o the TTOC or the TTF, then i'd probably think the club had stopped organising events with that.... i know i mentioned this before and i do hope someone's onto it...but it isn't exactly a good image for new members who are trying to see the events we've done before signing up...


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

Matchu said:


> For what it is worth, I had no preconceptions about the members of the TTOC or those that run it, I am "new" here and have no idea of the history etc. I have met a few of the NW chaps including the two Pauls at an Awesome GTI event a few months back....and had a good day...even though I was in a Polo...and no.....don't ask!
> 
> Anyway. I have signed up with the TTOC as I wanted to be a part of the club, e.g. coming along to the meets etc (if fate will allow..) and I was happy to pay the subs knowing things need to be paid for e.g. the magazines etc... I was not put off by any concerns about the club before joining..but then again I suppose I could have felt more compelled to join....i.e. felt there were more on offer by joining...
> 
> Anyway..oddly I feel a little like I'm intruding on someone elses "debate"...but actually it probably needs a few others with a fresh pair of eyes to make a few observations :wink:


think i remember you... hadn't you ordered a TT but not got it yet??? or something like that.. your right it was a great day !!


----------



## rustyintegrale

Matchu said:


> I feel a little like I'm intruding on someone elses "debate"...but actually it probably needs a few others with a fresh pair of eyes to make a few observations :wink:


If anything you are exactly who should be listened to.  Thanks for the honesty.


----------



## les

rustyintegrale said:


> For most members their only interaction with the TTOC is when they renew or by bumping into people at the National EvenTT or other TTOC attended events. So what you do and offer is often a mystery.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> rich


 Hmmm. what are these "OTHER" TTOC (exclusive) events of which you talk? :roll: All the events I have attended have included non TTOC members as far as I am aware that includes the IOM trip and Event 2009. :?


----------



## Matchu

les said:


> Matchu said:
> 
> 
> 
> For what it is worth, I had no preconceptions about the members of the TTOC or those that run it, I am "new" here and have no idea of the history etc. I have met a few of the NW chaps including the two Pauls at an Awesome GTI event a few months back....and had a good day...even though I was in a Polo...and no.....don't ask!
> 
> Anyway. I have signed up with the TTOC as I wanted to be a part of the club, e.g. coming along to the meets etc (if fate will allow..) and I was happy to pay the subs knowing things need to be paid for e.g. the magazines etc... I was not put off by any concerns about the club before joining..but then again I suppose I could have felt more compelled to join....i.e. felt there were more on offer by joining...
> 
> Anyway..oddly I feel a little like I'm intruding on someone elses "debate"...but actually it probably needs a few others with a fresh pair of eyes to make a few observations :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Matchu not sure if we have met before or not, perhaps you will be at the meet tomorrow night? (see the events forum) Anyway you will be very welcome to join us of course. Now get the TTOC logo under your name/avatar top left after each post so we know your one of us :wink:
Click to expand...

Hi chap...not sure how to put the TTOC upder my avatar..I kinda thought that was an admin thingy! Ahh well... As for tomorrow, I was planning to attend but am unsure as I've been sent to London for meetings tommorrow [smiley=bigcry.gif] so It will depend on when I get back...but either way I'm sure I'll catch you at a meeting soon


----------



## les

Matchu said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matchu said:
> 
> 
> 
> For what it is worth, I had no preconceptions about the members of the TTOC or those that run it, I am "new" here and have no idea of the history etc. I have met a few of the NW chaps including the two Pauls at an Awesome GTI event a few months back....and had a good day...even though I was in a Polo...and no.....don't ask!
> 
> Anyway. I have signed up with the TTOC as I wanted to be a part of the club, e.g. coming along to the meets etc (if fate will allow..) and I was happy to pay the subs knowing things need to be paid for e.g. the magazines etc... I was not put off by any concerns about the club before joining..but then again I suppose I could have felt more compelled to join....i.e. felt there were more on offer by joining...
> 
> Anyway..oddly I feel a little like I'm intruding on someone elses "debate"...but actually it probably needs a few others with a fresh pair of eyes to make a few observations :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Matchu not sure if we have met before or not, perhaps you will be at the meet tomorrow night? (see the events forum) Anyway you will be very welcome to join us of course. Now get the TTOC logo under your name/avatar top left after each post so we know your one of us :wink:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hi chap...not sure how to put the TTOC upder my avatar..I kinda thought that was an admin thingy! Ahh well... As for tomorrow, I was planning to attend but am unsure as I've been sent to London for meetings tommorrow [smiley=bigcry.gif] so It will depend on when I get back...but either way I'm sure I'll catch you at a meeting soon
Click to expand...

 I think one of the mods can sort the TTOC logo out for you just give one a shout/PM on here. If not they will know a man who can.


----------



## Wallsendmag

Ask Nem and it shall be done.
ps whats wrong with Mcdonalds great food and so reasonably priced.


----------



## jammyd

wallsendmag said:


> Ask Nem and it shall be done.
> ps whats wrong with Mcdonalds great food and so reasonably priced.


plus with cashbackkings.... oh sorry OT :lol:


----------



## rustyintegrale

jammyd said:


> wallsendmag said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ask Nem and it shall be done.
> ps whats wrong with Mcdonalds great food and so reasonably priced.
> 
> 
> 
> plus with cashbackkings.... oh sorry OT :lol:
Click to expand...

BurgerKing is better. Rustyburgers are the best... 8)


----------



## John-H

I wouldn't touch the bergers at either :lol:



Mark Davies said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> 
> But then what really hooked me long term was meeting some really nice people that liked driving cars too. So there's a thing - we all need to really nice and friendly to attract members and not put them off :wink:  :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, *BUT* you don't need to be a TTOC member to go to the meets.
> 
> I don't know. Perhaps there's a natural saturation point and we're only ever going to run at the 500 member mark, and people will come and go as they buy and sell their TTs. Maybe everyone who is ever going to be a TTOC member already has. It's interesting to see that the thread asking non-members why they haven't joined hasn't really attracted too much response, so there doesn't seem to be a bunch of undecided people who have been thinking 'if only there was something else then I'd join'.
> 
> My concerns were voiced because I know the club's finances are very tight, which was evident from the downsizing of this year's evenTT, so I was pondering whether there was something hindering the expansion of the club and preventing growth of income. I think I've made my theory clear, but maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. That said, there's certainly no harm in always trying to come up with new ideas to make the club as attractive as it could possibly be.
> 
> In the meantime, perhaps we should consider raising the membership fees. What has been clear is that there are few people who are worried about their fee being strict value for money. It seems that predominantly we see our fee more as a voluntary contribution to the club's running costs as much as anything else. I know I'd be happy to pay more and the feeling I've had from responses here is that most others would too. So, if it makes us more comfortable financially, why not put it up to £40?
Click to expand...

We can always do with good thinkers Mark. :wink: Keep at it! We did take a few actions to restore the finances which seem to have paid off - e.g. no costly track hire at TT09 (not enough people bought into it at Rockingham to recover the cost), not using expensive storage facilities for club equipment, reducing magazine printing and design costs and now introducing new shop merchandise and consequent reduction in the administration burden - so financially things have improved and as the shop picks up things shoulf improve further financially.

We could increase the amount of advertising in the magazine like most other glossy magazines. There was even a thought about selling the magazine on the high street, as we'd undoubtedly sell some but we want to keep the magazine exclusively for club members, which I think is appreciated, as is keeping the advertisements down to a few that add value to the TT owning experience without squeezing out good article content - despite the fact that a magazine completely full of adverts would possibly match the club membership income - but there would be nothing to read then ! :roll: - It would make my life easier though :lol:

New club merchandise items is one that could well be a win win situation and new ideas about that woud be appreciated too.

But.... they are all ways of increasing income and not necessarily membership. The magazine and the items in the club shop have the obvious potential advantage of being exclusive members only benefits - so they are capable of attracting more membership, which in turn brings more income and a bigger margin left over when running costs are paid.

It's both really isn't it? - more members and more money making ideas which give benefits which in turn attract more members. etc. etc. I wonder if it can all be worked out on a spreadsheet? :roll:


----------



## Wallsendmag

In-N-Out when I'm on the west coast bit far for a drive through from here though
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-N-Out_Burger


----------



## les

We won't TTOC mugs and not the kind with two legs like me :lol:


----------



## Hoggy

Hi, Whether this means anything or not, I may be just rambling, but I have been a paid up member of the the XROC for 25 years.
As obviously there are alot less XRs on the road than TTs, but there are 370 paid up members of the XROC, only 30% or so use the XR forum. The XROC subs are £20 per year with 4 issues of the colour half A4 magazine,nowhere near as plush or with the content of Absolutte. There are plenty of meets, (around middle England) organised by local reps & all voluntary, but the XROC still survives after 27 years. 
IMO the difference is dedication, for alot of Forum users the TT is just another car, where as the XR is an obssesion. Perhaps that is the secret of a successful surviving club, owners have to think the TT is something really special & only those will join the TTOC. If the TTOC has less than 500 members now,how many will it have in 20 years time.
Hoggy.


----------



## Wallsendmag

les said:


> We won't TTOC mugs and not the kind with two legs like me :lol:


We want them too and as soon as we find any where we don't have to lay out an arm and a leg to buy them in first we'll have them. You wouldn't believe how much they are, the only way we thought of doing it was as a group buy. Honestly les we have looked at everything you wouldn't believe the time we put in to trying to run this club.


----------



## Mark Davies

Hoggy said:


> If the TTOC has less than 500 members now,how many will it have in 20 years time.
> Hoggy.


Actually I think this is a situation that can only improve.

There's no denying that there's loads of TT owners who have just bought what they think is a pretty car. They will keep it for 2 or 3 years and then buy something else. That's why nobody ever waves when they pass another TT. But the MK1 is getting on now and we're beginning to enter a phase where the people who own them are buying them because they are truly enthusiastic about the car.

I wonder how many members there were of the MG Owners Club in 1978? Probably a lot less than now. Our car just needs to mature and become the classic that we all knew it was was going to be. _Then_ the TTOC will probably gain in popularity.


----------



## les

wallsendmag said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> 
> We won't TTOC mugs and not the kind with two legs like me :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> We want them too and as soon as we find any where we don't have to lay out an arm and a leg to buy them in first we'll have them. You wouldn't believe how much they are, the only way we thought of doing it was as a group buy. Honestly les we have looked at everything you wouldn't believe the time we put in to trying to run this club.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about things that cost in the region of say 5 or 6 pounds something that you could be bought by one of your children for your birthday or Christmas etc. £30 plus things are fine but pens mugs and maybe ties and the like would sell in volume IMO and help swell the coffers.


----------



## Wallsendmag

les said:


> wallsendmag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> les said:
> 
> 
> 
> We won't TTOC mugs and not the kind with two legs like me :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> We want them too and as soon as we find any where we don't have to lay out an arm and a leg to buy them in first we'll have them. You wouldn't believe how much they are, the only way we thought of doing it was as a group buy. Honestly les we have looked at everything you wouldn't believe the time we put in to trying to run this club.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was thinking about things that cost in the region of say 5 or 6 pounds something that you could be bought by one of your children for your birthday or Christmas etc. £30 plus things are fine but pens mugs and maybe ties and the like would sell in volume IMO and help swell the coffers.
Click to expand...

Honestly Les we have looked at it, with mininum orders , storage and postage we couldn't hope to make any money out of it and it would tie up a considerable amount of money, something that until very recently was owed in vast numbers to several committee members. When we looked at the new clothing range we looked at all sorts of things. I'm not kidding you Les ,when you are desperate to get the funds in you look at everything. As a group buy it may be possible if everyone pays up front but even then you are going to be talking about 100+ mugs and a lot of work for not a lot of reward. 
To be honest Les it is starting to look as if you have some kind of agenda , I hope I am wrong but you have upset a lot of very hardworking people in the last couple of days. If the posts don't reflect what you mean please take longer to compose them before you rip the club apart.


----------



## Hoggy

Mark Davies said:


> Our car just needs to mature and become the classic that we all knew it was was going to be. _Then_ the TTOC will probably gain in popularity.


Hi Mark, I do hope so. 

Hoggy.


----------



## John-H

Let's keep this thread a *"Brain storming"* thread for ideas now - whereby we throw in suggestions and nobody takes a pop at anybody's ideas :wink: - otherwise people will be put off suggesteing them! At the end we go through the thread and make a list of ALL ideas and afterwards weed out the ones that won't work and hopefully at the end of the process will have some good ones to try 

So, rules of brainstorming: (1) All ideas are allowed (2) Nobody criticises ideas at this stage. Off we go....

Here's one: Post an appeal for anyone on TTF who can help with reducing minimum orders or tooling charges or holding stock, for the cheap end merchandising like pens or mugs, badges etc. Perhaps someone in the trade may be able to help us out?

Another: Have a quarterly competition to win in the magazine and publicised on the website with a worthwhile prize.

Another: Appeal for proof readers for the magazine as we are running out.


----------



## Wallsendmag

MUGS
PENS 
Notepads
Mouse mats
pint glases 
cufflinks
badges
callenders
Ties
Watches
Credit Cards


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

John-H said:


> as the shop picks up things shoulf improve further financially.
> 
> New club merchandise items is one that could well be a win win situation and new ideas about that woud be appreciated too.


I know The shop is great... and with all the awfull weather i'll hopefully have my TTOC umberella and winter jacket soon 

I did post a few suggestion (2 namely) that i'd imagine are quite cheap to produce relativly to some of the other stuff. but that was on the merchandise page http://www.********.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=154810&start=15



wallsendmag said:


> To be honest Les it is starting to look as if you have some kind of agenda , I hope I am wrong but you have upset a lot of very hardworking people in the last couple of days. If the posts don't reflect what you mean please take longer to compose them before you rip the club apart.


to be honest i've not seen anything in les's posts thats not in TTOC favour :? could understand the TTF getting abit tetchy about the "pay" issue.. but thats not the point he was getting at...and to be honest Mark's post was identical origionally just more diplomaticly worded... I think if anything my posts could have been taken the wrong way more than les's the only difference being was i set out my intensions a the start...

and hate to say this... YET AGAIN !!! but i know if must be frustraiting Commity members to read all these ideas that have clearly been looked at in great detail...and then having to relay that on here to questioning members.. I'll even admit it's piss me off no end and completely get where "Nem", and "Wallsendmag" are coming from with the short... "trust me it's been looked at posts"..... but personally guys i i view is as this problem has been made by yourselves for the sole reason of... Yes you guessed it... "Chain of Command"....In my opinion a discussion like this should be done in a set way to save everyone's time..

1) The issues should be raised with the local rep.. who will answer to the best of his knowledge and seek guidance if required to feed back from teh commity at the next meet.
2) The idea;s that the rep can instantly take off the table (the ones that have been looked at can be done so... after all the rep is the representative of the locality who has raised the issue)
3) The good ideas get taken forward by the rep for the commity.. feedback can be given to the members by the rep at the next local meet...
4) Everyone gets a better club with the commity only having to respond to one representative of one Area... Also if other Area's are thinking the same sort of ideas then surly it's a winner..

I can understand and would not expect the commity seniors to have to answer every single members whim... thats not practicle to be gauge any feedback from the 15 reps if a discussion like this came up... than to do it for every individual member... Plus on forums the message could be lost so as a face to face with a rep who's looking after those members interests surly it'd be easier for you guys???

I know i know... tony moaning about the rep again... belive me i'm as sick of it as you guys are of hearing it... but surly thats what a rep should be doing and that makes this whole discussion go away and be address formaly to the commity.... where's the issue???? oh yeah that's it NW doesn't have a rep :roll:

and on another note... has anyone got anything about my preivious post the other day??


tony_rigby_uk said:


> just on another note whilst i've been on the TTOC website....
> On the Past events section: http://www.ttoc.co.uk/website/viewforum.php?f=31 the last event was "Galway Trip 15/08/2008"  now think we all know this is far from the truth... and when you click on it to read about the event all the pictures are broken  Not having a go (as i'm sure someone has picked up that it looks like the TTOC hasn't had an event for over 12months) but surly that doesn't look like an attractive proposition for new members does it???
> 
> If it has been missed by the TTOC then i'm glad i've spotted it as it looks abit out of date if we've done nohing since then as we all know thats not true...


Think that's a slight issue alos.... i wouldn't feel comfortable partingwith my cash if the website looked like nothing had been done in over a year,,,, It's fine if ya on the TTF but for any other newbie'ss (like someone who's bought a car with a TTOC badge on and wanting to see what it's all about... then i think we are sending the wrong message)

Think i'll shut up and let this die now... GOOD LUCK TO ALL WHO CONTINUE THIS THREAD... 8)


----------



## Nem

Tony, just to answer your concerns over the content of the TTOC site with regard the past events write ups, and also linked to the the upcoming event calendar. It's something we know is not up to scratch and we're looking at how best to manage this going forward from here. Paul is still working on the final details of a list of standard tasks for the reps to go by and updating this section with a brief update of any meet is part of it. As is making a note on the calendar of any upcoming meet, even if it's just a link to a thread on here where it can be discussed.

Cheers.


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

Nem said:


> Tony, just to answer your concerns over the content of the TTOC site with regard the past events write ups, and also linked to the the upcoming event calendar. It's something we know is not up to scratch and we're looking at how best to manage this going forward from here. Paul is still working on the final details of a list of standard tasks for the reps to go by and updating this section with a brief update of any meet is part of it. As is making a note on the calendar of any upcoming meet, even if it's just a link to a thread on here where it can be discussed.
> 
> Cheers.


Excellent Nem, i did ask if someone had spotted the event's section but nobody jumped out and said YES... as for the standard tasks fro the reps... yes again.. that in reality completely supports what i've said... you guys answering all the ideas that have been looked at before isn't productive... and a situation like this with people (be it it's own local members) would probably throw alot of the ideas out before it gets to you..... problem with forums is people can just post up whats in there mind without really thinking logistics ect.... where as being sat round a table with a rep who can list the ideas and send them off to you is much more productive and structured and would probably get better ideas as they can be bounced around and reallyn thought about before they get to this level.


----------



## John-H

Your idea is "delegation" then Tony - I'll add it to the list :wink:


----------



## les

I wrote a reply to Andrew ( wallsend) last night but just before I completed it my server went down and did come back on till this morning which may have been a good thing for both of us seeing as I am being accused of ripping this club apart. People will make suggestions in an effort to help the club to bring in "much needed funds" many will have been considered before so what. However how is the membership to know that and there are more people in the TTOC who maybe able to help sourcing items like mugs, stationery, pens etc than just committee members. How do the committee know we don't have members who have jobs or work in industries that have to buy similar items in and maybe able to get very good deals for the club on such? If you don't ask you will never know. Like John suggests this should be used a brain storming thread with nothing discounted until it's been considered and those members shouldnt be either discouraged from making/suggesting them esp from committee members. If nothing else this thread has started dialog and debate with members with many suggestions coming forward for the good of the club as a whole so why discourage it and why should it only be committee members who have ideas to help.


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

John-H said:


> Your idea is "delegation" then Tony - I'll add it to the list :wink:


Don't forget the two idea's for the shop also :wink: think a proper tax disk holder with the TTOC logo on the top (which is where the dealer you bought it from logo is) think those would sell better than the alloy onces... and it's the sort of gift granny can buy for christmas :lol:


----------



## Redscouse

Tony, the two items you have suggested we will look into. Its quite hard with Merchandise for the shop as things for the the shop were bought years and years ago, in bulk, and we still have boxes and boxes of them sitting in Committee garages and lofts. I agree with you in terms of what you have suggested, i think they will add something slightly different to the shop and should generate funds..... but again we need to look into it as things like these need bulk buying in 200 - 250 items sometimes, and we need to make sure we are going to sell 250 numberplate surrounds, otherwise these big items are gonna be sitting around when the MK4 TT is launched :lol: :wink:

Cheers

Paul


----------



## John-H

The vinyl tax disc holders may sell well too - I'd get one  . If we appeal to forum members to see if they can help with an easy production route - low tooling cost low minimum order etc. then things like this may be easier.


----------



## KammyTT

Redscouse said:


> Tony, the two items you have suggested we will look into. Its quite hard with Merchandise for the shop as things for the the shop were bought years and years ago, in bulk, and we still have boxes and boxes of them sitting in Committee garages and lofts. I agree with you in terms of what you have suggested, i think they will add something slightly different to the shop and should generate funds..... but again we need to look into it as things like these need bulk buying in 200 - 250 items sometimes, and we need to make sure we are going to sell 250 numberplate surrounds, otherwise these big items are gonna be sitting around when the MK4 TT is launched :lol: :wink:
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Paul


id def be interested in a numberplate surround as i dont do badges 

paul you got skype???


----------



## les

John-H said:


> The vinyl tax disc holders may sell well too - I'd get one  . If we appeal to forum members to see if they can help with an easy production route - low tooling cost low minimum order etc. then things like this may be easier.


 Sensible John and glad you agree :wink: You ever know one or two of the members on here might just work in such industry and maybe able to help with reduced numbers and even reduced cost to the club but if you don't ask you might never know. Worth poutting a shout in the next issue of Absolutte.  Oppps there I go making suggestions again :roll:


----------



## KammyTT

les... ever thought of becoming a comitee member :roll:

think you would be perfect :wink:


----------



## Wallsendmag

KammyTT said:


> les... ever thought of becoming a comitee member :roll:
> 
> think you would be perfect :wink:


He can be membership sec anyone know how Z4s run ?


----------



## KammyTT

is that a tyre andy??

why you being soooo moody lately???? you WILL be back in the premieship eventually


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

wallsendmag said:


> KammyTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> les... ever thought of becoming a comitee member :roll:
> 
> think you would be perfect :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> He can be membership sec anyone know how Z4s run ?
Click to expand...

Shite their BMW's.... not as tail end happy as the Z3 so see less of them in ditches but still would rather have the quottro...
thinking of jumping ship then??


----------



## Wallsendmag

Just sick at the moment in more ways than one , I need a change.


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

wallsendmag said:


> Just sick at the moment in more ways than one , I need a change.


Thats ashame... apart from being a newcastle fan i thought ya was an alright bloke :lol:


----------



## Redscouse

Kammy yes i have skype, and me and we can have virtual sex......

redscousett

:lol: :lol:


----------



## KammyTT

Redscouse said:


> Kammy yes i have skype, and me and we can have virtual sex......
> 
> redscousett
> 
> :lol: :lol:


 i charge a fee! £1.00 a min......... but i am good though :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

:lol: :lol: :lol: TTOC and this FORUM???? it lets Kammy & Redscouce do the doggy dance and bash giblets in cyber space.... until ofcourse they get skype up and running :lol: :lol: :lol: (not suggesting in anyway that this is not acceptable behaviour... your sexual prefence is enitrtely your own business :lol: :lol: :lol: don't forget to lube !!!!!!! :lol: :lol:


----------



## KammyTT

tony_rigby_uk said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: TTOC and this FORUM???? it lets Kammy & Redscouce do the doggy dance and bash giblets in cyber space.... until ofcourse they get skype up and running :lol: :lol: :lol: (not suggesting in anyway that this is not acceptable behaviour... your sexual prefence is enitrtely your own business :lol: :lol: :lol: don't forget to lube !!!!!!! :lol: :lol:


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## John-H

I hope there's not a shop product suggestion in the offing - and before you oblige the answer's a definite no thank you! :roll: There are limits to a brainstorm session you know! :wink:


----------



## CamV6

les said:


> wallsendmag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> les said:
> 
> 
> 
> We won't TTOC mugs and not the kind with two legs like me :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> We want them too and as soon as we find any where we don't have to lay out an arm and a leg to buy them in first we'll have them. You wouldn't believe how much they are, the only way we thought of doing it was as a group buy. Honestly les we have looked at everything you wouldn't believe the time we put in to trying to run this club.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was thinking about things that cost in the region of say 5 or 6 pounds something that you could be bought by one of your children for your birthday or Christmas etc. £30 plus things are fine but pens mugs and maybe ties and the like would sell in volume IMO and help swell the coffers.
Click to expand...

Well, experience from the last committee tells us that such items dont actually sell as well as you might think

Also, to get pens, mugs etc etc that are of any quality and are worth having is NOT cheap and wont necessarily be cheap for the member. Take for example a Parker 25 biro pen. Would be perfect, classic design, in brushed alu finish, and can be engraved/embossed etc etc whatever we want.

The final product will be a good few quid more expensive that the non-personalised item, for a number of reasons. I've looked into it.

Infact the club would do better to get less expensive plastic biros printed and give them away for free with each membership pack!

We cannot order a large amount to get better unit prices because we do not have the cash flow to hold a lot of stock, especially stock of relatively high individual unit value. As an example I wanted to revive to watch we used to offer, BUT its just not an option to buy in stock at quantity where each piece costs (ball park) £65 to the club in the first place, and then sell one a month, if we are lucky!

As for the club having an identity crisis, we dont. We know who and what we are. Some folk may wish we were something else that what we are and so the true crisis is the conflict between what we are and what that individual thinks we OUGHT to be.

The club is open to young and old, we love the modders and the slammers and we love the traditionalists too.

BUT we are a small club trying to cater for a small UK wide membershio of c. 500 people, in a market place that is actually very small to begin with.

TT owners make up a very small percentage of the population, and of those TT owners, only very very few think that they might not be total saddos if they went on a TT forum, and an even smaller percentage would then be motivated enough to join a club. You simply cant apply normal business prinicples to this situation. The dynamics are totally different.

Look we do our best, we really really appreciate new ideas and suggestions (after all, why wouldnt we appreciate a suggestion? Just cos a suggestion has been considered before or whatever, it doesnt make the suggestion invalid or unwanted and we take it in the spirit its meant - i.e. helpful intention), this committee is is always on the forum and anyone who wishes to hear from us can also PM any of us.

Bear in mind, the forum and the TTOC are totally independent from one another in every way possible. The fact that the two entities associate with one another doesnt necessarily mean we have to be omni-present as a committee. We are members here like everyone else and appear on the boards like all other TTF users.

Specific interest clubs like ours are not intended to be and indeed by their very nature can never be pefect, slick, glossy yoof cluture organisations with a massive following, and so the cloth has to be cut to fit.

I've no idea how many times we can say, we are an amatuer club, run by people in their spare time when professional & family commitments permit. We do our best with what we have, we make no prift from it all all and we try to provide an enjoyable little community, with hopefully a few nice fringe benefits.

Make of us what you will, but the easiest thing in the world is to pick holes and come up with 'ideas'. The reality of it, and indeed the attainable reasults are a different story.

Oh, and Rusty, dont worry you arent a member we are concerned about renewing :wink: :lol:


----------



## rustyintegrale

CamV6 said:


> Well, experience from the last committee tells us that such items dont actually sell as well as you might think
> 
> Also, to get pens, mugs etc etc that are of any quality and are worth having is NOT cheap and wont necessarily be cheap for the member. Take for example a Parker 25 biro pen. Would be perfect, classic design, in brushed alu finish, and can be engraved/embossed etc etc whatever we want.
> 
> The final product will be a good few quid more expensive that the non-personalised item, for a number of reasons. I've looked into it.
> 
> Infact the club would do better to get less expensive plastic biros printed and give them away for free with each membership pack!
> 
> We cannot order a large amount to get better unit prices because we do not have the cash flow to hold a lot of stock, especially stock of relatively high individual unit value. As an example I wanted to revive to watch we used to offer, BUT its just not an option to buy in stock at quantity where each piece costs (ball park) £65 to the club in the first place, and then sell one a month, if we are lucky!
> 
> As for the club having an identity crisis, we dont. We know who and what we are. Some folk may wish we were something else that what we are and so the true crisis is the conflict between what we are and what that individual thinks we OUGHT to be.
> 
> The club is open to young and old, we love the modders and the slammers and we love the traditionalists too.
> 
> BUT we are a small club trying to cater for a small UK wide membershio of c. 500 people, in a market place that is actually very small to begin with.
> 
> TT owners make up a very small percentage of the population, and of those TT owners, only very very few think that they might not be total saddos if they went on a TT forum, and an even smaller percentage would then be motivated enough to join a club. You simply cant apply normal business prinicples to this situation. The dynamics are totally different.
> 
> Look we do our best, we really really appreciate new ideas and suggestions (after all, why wouldnt we appreciate a suggestion? Just cos a suggestion has been considered before or whatever, it doesnt make the suggestion invalid or unwanted and we take it in the spirit its meant - i.e. helpful intention), this committee is is always on the forum and anyone who wishes to hear from us can also PM any of us.
> 
> Bear in mind, the forum and the TTOC are totally independent from one another in every way possible. The fact that the two entities associate with one another doesnt necessarily mean we have to be omni-present as a committee. We are members here like everyone else and appear on the boards like all other TTF users.
> 
> Specific interest clubs like ours are not intended to be and indeed by their very nature can never be pefect, slick, glossy yoof cluture organisations with a massive following, and so the cloth has to be cut to fit.
> 
> I've no idea how many times we can say, we are an amatuer club, run by people in their spare time when professional & family commitments permit. We do our best with what we have, we make no prift from it all all and we try to provide an enjoyable little community, with hopefully a few nice fringe benefits.
> 
> Make of us what you will, but the easiest thing in the world is to pick holes and come up with 'ideas'. The reality of it, and indeed the attainable reasults are a different story.
> 
> Oh, and Rusty, dont worry you arent a member we are concerned about renewing :wink: :lol:


Okay Cam, you obviously know best. I presume that's why the request for ideas was made. I really can't see what is to be gained by pleading poverty, asking how the club MIGHT attract more members and then asking what else can be done for the benefit of members, if you then just dismiss it all outright as 'wrong' because you personally disagree with it. :-|

As I clearly stated (in order to avoid this kind of response) my feelings were only gut feelings with no research to back it up. Of course, it's entirely up to the committee what they choose to do with any input from members, but this kind of response doesn't actually encourage contribution does it?

And for the record, I'll say again that I believe the committee as a whole is doing a good job in difficult circumstances. And ignoring any personal differences between you and I - that includes you.

Cheers

Rich


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

seems like not everyone on the TTOC commity is singing the same christmas carol :? chairman, editor and a few others are saying yeah lets have a brain storm session.. and others are saying oh lets just not bother.... :roll: confussed... oh yes... :?

as i've said before this isn't the best way to bring idea's forward.. but the NW hasn't got a "active" rep.. therefore everyone's getting there say in without it being disscussed first by a rep... i'm sure if something like this was posted in a region that had a rep thats where they'd be reffered to... so can't blame the NW for communicating in the only way available.... but.......

in honestly... screw it... it just not worth it... leave everying including the NW rep situation as it is...i for one just can't be assed with it anymore... :roll:


----------



## Mark Davies

Tony, I know the rep issue is important to you but I don't think it is at the heart of everything. You've said much about how us having no rep in a manner dis-enfranchises us from the club and the committee, and I understand where you are coming from. However, this is the IT age. We have the internet and a discussion forum - and that means decisions don't have to be made by a handful on a committe, and all the work does not have to be done by those individuals. With this forum we can all discuss these issues, we can all contribute - we can all be committee members for a day. We aren't really all that out of touch.

Cam, I think Rich's response comes because you seem to be on the defensive. Please - nobody is criticising the committee or the efforts you put in - not for one moment. We all know you do this as volunteers in your own time and put in a great deal of effort. We are greatful. This thread has not come about because we are not happy with what we get. It does not come about because we don't think we are getting value for money. Quite to the contrary, every member who has expressed an opinion has said they are very happy.

It comes about for just one reason - some of us (who have recently been organising meets) have come to recognise that the Forum pretty much operates as a club in its own right, with people coming along to those meets and no distinction at all between TTOC members and non-members. In other words we've realised that you simply don't need to be a TTOC member to play a fully active part in the TTOC. That has come about by default not design and is simply due to the way the TTOC utilises (and relies on) the Forum to do all its business. Now, while it is so inclusive and thereby encourages greater participation it is no bad thing _except_ it must surely be a disincentive for people to pay money to join the TTOC.

The TTOC is good. The Forum is good. It is merely the relationship between the two and how they interact that is cause for worry for some of us. Hence, the title of this thread.

Please, don't misunderstand the point we are making and don't get all on the defensive. We are more than happy with the work you are doing - so there is no need to defend it. All we are trying to do is highlight and resolve this single issue - all with a view of trying to encourage more people to join the TTOC - specifically those who may already be taking part in TTOC related activities and so can't see the point of spending the money on membership. That is if indeed there are such people about. Maybe there aren't.


----------



## les

OK the committee have looked at pen, mugs, watches and the like and found them to be so expensive or so little income would be gained in purchaing such items plus tying up club funds. I assume by that you have tried all the usual suppliers of such and have arrived at that conclusion after a little maths. However we have 500 members here some of which MAY work in such industries supplying big corporations with such items. Maybe there is a procurement manger or two in the club any one of which MAY be able to provide such items in small quantities and at a price to make it worth while buying them in. I get the impression that the committee is unwilling to ask the membership or involve them in anyway taking all the respoinsibilities for such on their shoulders. Maybe there aren't such members able to help in the way outlined above but how do you know? Have you ever asked? Easy enough to do with a lists of help required placed in Absolutte. Why not think out the box and ask ordinary members for assistance if you don't ask you will never know. Same goes for stationary and anything else the club may have to buy in. 
Reagarding the NW rep. I agree with Mark we don't need one to arrange a meet thats quite obvious but if thats all a rep is for then we do very well without one. However I believe the post is much more than somebody arranging meets and cruises. I understand there is now some form of job description for reps. I have asked if we the members of the TTOC could see it without a reply. If I am wrong and there is no such thing then I think there should be. IMO some of the minor day to day running of the TTOC could be deligated to regional reps but if you think not fine carry on as like Mark and Rust says we agree the committee is going a good job. I also believe John H has the right idea regarding a brain storm and so what if only say 1 in 10 of ideas put forward are potential goers. Please don't isolate the membership from any problems the TTOC may have but seek their assistance and views you just night be surprised what you get back.


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

[smiley=zzz.gif]


----------



## CamV6

Maybe I didnt express myself well enough, so let me clarify

1. Yes, we definately want to hear and consider any ideas anyone may have, and they are genuinely appreciated. Please keep them coming

2. The club isnt pleading poverty at all. Indeed thanks to the hard work efforts of the new committee we are in a sound financial state now whereas the club could easily have folded at one point. The point I was making was that a club of our size isnt awash with spare funds which can be tied up in stock.

3. The committee is and would be more than happy for any of the membership to offer to help out and take up certain tasks. I think possibly as a hang-over from the past, people dont realise that we as a committee see ourselves as members who choose to take on a role to keep the club running and as such we see ourselves as members first and committee second.

Therefore, If anyone does want to assist the club and do certain things, then please, you are very very welcome indeed and we would gladly accept the help of anothr pair of hands, and welcome someone who would take on a specific task. That is what an owners club like ours is all about. Its exists and thrives only via the involvement and good-will of its members (as I hve said before elsewhere in the past)

Please understand, if I explain something, its is just that, an explanation. I simply wanted to put people in the picture. If by answering and providing info I am read as being on the defensive, then I apologise. I wasnt aiming or intending to be defensive, the intent on my opart was to be open and explain. It sometimes feels as if we cant win here. People ask and say stuff - if we dont respond, we are accused of being aloof - if we do respond and explain stuff we get accused of shooting ideas down or being defensivwe when we arent, we are just having a discussion.

C'mon guys, this is getting all quite un-necessary now, and dare I say it rather unfair. We work hard, we do our best and we hope to please people. Its not always possible to please everyone all the time but we try our best as volunteers. If what the club does doesnt meet with approval, then please make suggestions and perhaps even offer to help, you'd be surprised at the positive response the club would have I'm sure!

One last thing, I dont think I was saying anyone weas 'wrong' I was ust explaining why certain things havent/arent/cant be done.

Think about it, no-one in their right mind invites comment just so that the comment can be shot down!?

Hope that clears things up. Can we all try and be on the same side now?


----------



## les

CamV6 said:


> Hope that clears things up. Can we all try and be on the same side now?


 It clears up some thing and BTW Cam we ARE already on the same side and always have been.


----------



## CamV6

les said:


> CamV6 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hope that clears things up. Can we all try and be on the same side now?
> 
> 
> 
> It clears up some thing and BTW Cam we ARE already on the same side and always have been.
Click to expand...

Thanks Les, appreciated. BTW, I really like the idea of canvassing for help in the Mag from peoplewho might be in helpful industries. John, can we do a little peice in the next issue maybe?

Mark, yes you are right about the non-TTOC members on the TTF being involved in TTOC stuff, but its so hard to exclude people. I myself became a member as a person who'd hung around TTOC event for ages and then finally realised what the TTOC was about and joined up. Had I not been welcome as a non-member I probably would never have joined. Excluding non-mebmers from meets could be seen as elitist, and could alientate or put off potential members.

One thing we could do more of is setting up TTOC only GBs. Paul (redscouse) may well be announcing something soon. Again the problem is national coverage. For example, I know of a good wheel refurbisher who will offer a TTOC discount and we've discussed it at length but the prob is, it would only be of use to a people in a limited area and this would pee people off say, in Manchester, and I cant vouch for other refurbishers in other areas cos I've not used them.

However, if anyone would like to set up a TTOC GB, then please do it!


----------



## Mark Davies

Cam, there's _nothing wrong _with the way the TTOC is run and the Forum is fantastic. I don't propose either of them should be changed at all. I certainly don't think we should have TTOC exclusive meets - that's not the way to get new members.

What it is all about (the ONLY thing it is about) is the relationship between the two - how they interact and are intertwined to the point that *there's no practical difference between being a fully paid up TTOC member and being a registered Forum member, for free*. I simply speculate that that has to be a disinsentive for some to joining the TTOC. I don't think either should be changed but simply suggest that to win over those Forum-only members the TTOC needs to look at adding something extra that is of tangible benefit that isn't available simply by being on the Forum - because at the moment _every_ practical benefit of being a TTOC member seems to be available to Forum members too. It only came about because I saw Forge offering their discount code openly on the Forum and that got me thinking.

I'm not talking about radical changes - just about finding _one_ simple, attractive, tangible new benefit for members that _would_ be exclusive to members only and would be available nationally to all members - in just the way that the current benefits aren't.


----------



## CamV6

Mark Davies said:


> Cam, there's _nothing wrong _with the way the TTOC is run and the Forum is fantastic. I don't propose either of them should be changed at all. I certainly don't think we should have TTOC exclusive meets - that's not the way to get new members.
> 
> What it is all about (the ONLY thing it is about) is the relationship between the two - how they interact and are intertwined to the point that *there's no practical difference between being a fully paid up TTOC member and being a registered Forum member, for free*. I simply speculate that that has to be a disinsentive for some to joining the TTOC. I don't think either should be changed but simply suggest that to win over those Forum-only members the TTOC needs to look at adding something extra that is of tangible benefit that isn't available simply by being on the Forum - because at the moment _every_ practical benefit of being a TTOC member seems to be available to Forum members too.
> 
> I'm not talking about radical changes - just about finding _one_ simple, attractive, tangible new benefit for members that _would_ be exclusive to members only and would be available nationally to all members - in just the way that the current benefits aren't.


I take your point, but, any suggestions?


----------



## les

When I set up my group buy I thought I was setting it up for TTOC members turns out it was a group buy for TTF members. In fact exclusively for TTF members given that it appears all TTOC members are TTF members anyway. I have an idea that had I had know differently at the time I would have tried to put in place. For instance with my GB on Blueflame exhausts with both Awesome and the TTshop, I could have said to both OK for every exhaust order via the GB I would like you to donate £10 to the TTOC. Now if that meant putting £10 on top of each bought on the GB fine the members on here would have been getting a bloody good deal with a tenner more anyway. I worked bloody hard to set that group buy up and had to negotiate between both Awesome and the TTshop to come to a common agreement with regards to prices and the deal in question. In all honestly I don't think an extra tenner would have made a blind bit of difference to members given the overhaul cost of such items and the massive savings on the GB. In fact I think many would have been happy to know the TTOC was getting something out of it. I don't see why GBs in future can't be negotiated and set up along similar lines with the help of the company supplying. Maybe not £10 each time that would depend on the cost of future items offered for sale on GBs. If for some good reason my idea above is a no goer fine it's just a suggestion. I am not aware such has ever been considered and at least some of non TTOC members on here will be contributing something towards the club and may even encourage them to join in the long run.

I would also like to add that due to this thread many more members of both the TTOC and the TTF now know just what the relationship is between the two. I also know at least 2 more members have joined the TTOC as a direct result of this thread and maybe more.


----------



## CamV6

Nice idea, thankyou.

Will bear this in mind


----------



## les

CamV6 said:


> Nice idea, thankyou.
> 
> Will bear this in mind


 I thought you might like that one :wink:


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## jammyd

Les I think thats a great idea... spot on


----------



## les

jammyd said:


> Les I think thats a great idea... spot on


 Thanks, I do have them from time to time. 9 out of 10 might be bummers but the odd gem does flash up now and again :lol:


----------



## rustyintegrale

CamV6 said:


> Hope that clears things up. Can we all try and be on the same side now?


As has already been said, we are on the same side Cam :wink:

Now if you'd like to extend that to an interwebby handshake between us personally to let bygones be bygones, then I'm sure that'll help too. We can do the real thing when we next bump in to each other. 

Whaddya think? :roll:

Cheers

rich


----------



## Mark Davies

CamV6 said:


> I take your point, but, any suggestions?


Well I did already suggest a discount deal with a national tyre retailer. Tyres are something we all buy at some point and if we go for a big national like Kwik Fit (which if I'm right isn't a franchise operation but run nationally) then wherever we are we've all got a branch nearby.

I think the prospect of 10% off a set of tyres every year would pretty much convince everyone to join up. BUT, it should be arranged so that the discount is only available on production of a valid TTOC membership card.


----------



## CamV6

Mark Davies said:


> CamV6 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I take your point, but, any suggestions?
> 
> 
> 
> Well I did already suggest a discount deal with a national tyre retailer. Tyres are something we all buy at some point and if we go for a big national like Kwik Fit (which if I'm right isn't a franchise operation but run nationally) then wherever we are we've all got a branch nearby.
> 
> I think the prospect of 10% off a set of tyres every year would pretty much convince everyone to join up. BUT, it should be arranged so that the discount is only available on production of a valid TTOC membership card.
Click to expand...

Well........... :wink:

Naah, I'll let Redscouse update as and when there is any news :wink:


----------



## rustyintegrale

Mark Davies said:


> CamV6 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I take your point, but, any suggestions?
> 
> 
> 
> Well I did already suggest a discount deal with a national tyre retailer. Tyres are something we all buy at some point and if we go for a big national like Kwik Fit (which if I'm right isn't a franchise operation but run nationally) then wherever we are we've all got a branch nearby.
> 
> I think the prospect of 10% off a set of tyres every year would pretty much convince everyone to join up. BUT, it should be arranged so that the discount is only available on production of a valid TTOC membership card.
Click to expand...

Problem is who'd want to trust Kwik Fit with their car? How about doing something with Camskill (who many of us use anyway) because you get cheap tyres plus you can choose who fits them... :wink:

http://www.camskill.co.uk/index.php

Cheers

rich


----------



## CamV6

rustyintegrale said:


> CamV6 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hope that clears things up. Can we all try and be on the same side now?
> 
> 
> 
> As has already been said, we are on the same side Cam :wink:
> 
> Now if you'd like to extend that to an interwebby handshake between us personally to let bygones be bygones, then I'm sure that'll help too. We can do the real thing when we next bump in to each other.
> 
> Whaddya think? :roll:
> 
> Cheers
> 
> rich
Click to expand...

I try not to think, it gets me into trouble [smiley=book2.gif]


----------



## audimad

If you want a good deal on tyres try http://www.blackcircles.co.uk


----------



## rustyintegrale

CamV6 said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CamV6 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hope that clears things up. Can we all try and be on the same side now?
> 
> 
> 
> As has already been said, we are on the same side Cam :wink:
> 
> Now if you'd like to extend that to an interwebby handshake between us personally to let bygones be bygones, then I'm sure that'll help too. We can do the real thing when we next bump in to each other.
> 
> Whaddya think? :roll:
> 
> Cheers
> 
> rich
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I try not to think, it gets me into trouble [smiley=book2.gif]
Click to expand...

We have _something_ in common then... :lol:


----------



## CamV6

BTW Rust, I think u need to see this, quick!

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=158339


----------



## rustyintegrale

CamV6 said:


> BTW Rust, I think u need to see this, quick!
> 
> viewtopic.php?f=15&t=158339


Nah, he offered them to me but I have silver carbon kneepads and custom door panels.

Thanks for the heads up though...


----------



## John-H

Well I'm glad things tend to work out in the end


----------



## rustyintegrale

John-H said:


> Well I'm glad things tend to work out in the end


Respect to you John. :wink:


----------



## John-H

rustyintegrale said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I'm glad things tend to work out in the end
> 
> 
> 
> Respect to you John. :wink:
Click to expand...

Well thank you kind sir


----------



## rustyintegrale

John-H said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John-H said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I'm glad things tend to work out in the end
> 
> 
> 
> Respect to you John. :wink:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well thank you kind sir
Click to expand...

Stand for the Chair next year... :wink:


----------



## Redscouse

Les, i know i havent announced anything about a Regional Reps role and jobs, but i will be doing very soon. I already have a list of what i expect from each Rep, and i have had this since ive been in place as Rep Sec. Bare with me and very very VERY soon, you will see some posts in this section that you can refer to mate.... trust me...... im a red :wink:

As for GB's, ive actually got a few discussions on the go with a few National companies, so leave it with me, these things take time, but ill announce something in this section if a deal is struck with anybody in due course

Paul


----------



## DDcrash

I ordered a mug from http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/fish4mugs-tees and it was good quality. Might be worth getting in touch with him. It might be worth doing a TTF / TTOC one and flog it on the TTF


----------



## Wallsendmag

DDcrash said:


> I ordered a mug from http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/fish4mugs-tees and it was good quality. Might be worth getting in touch with him. It might be worth doing a TTF / TTOC one and flog it on the TTF


You see thats the problem, they work out at nearly £9 and the club wouldn't make anything to cover the time spent on the orders.


----------



## les

DDcrash said:


> I ordered a mug from http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/fish4mugs-tees and it was good quality. Might be worth getting in touch with him. It might be worth doing a TTF / TTOC one and flog it on the TTF


 £8-48p inc P&P not bad and I would assume he's making money on them and selling plenty.


----------



## John-H

How much would a TTOC / TTF member be prepared to splash out on a mug?


----------



## A3DFU

John-H said:


> How much would a TTOC / TTF member be prepared to splash out on a mug?


Or a watch?


----------



## les

John-H said:


> How much would a TTOC / TTF member be prepared to splash out on a mug?


Anybody ever asked John? I know now you are :wink:


----------



## les

OK I didnt spend much time on this but look here.
http://www.mugsandmats.co.uk/mugs-promotional.html

I spoke to a guy at the company who gave me the following information and prices.
Mugs come in packs of 72 but you can order as many or as few as you wish. I enquired about 10oz standard mugs printed.
72 mugs would cost each £2.79p plus VAT ( order more and they are cheaper still, less and they are a little more) 
So 72 mugs printed with whatever you wish in as many colour tones would be £200.88p plus vat 15% = £30.13p plus P&P inc of vat = £9-18p. To the club that works out at £340.19p ~ by 72mugs = £3-34p each to the club all in if my sums are right. Like I said I didn't spend much time as I just did a quick Google and made one phone call to get the prices above. I think the club could make a nice little profit buying mugs in at that price.
Hope the above is of some help.


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

WOW GREAT SITE LES!!!!!!!!!!

Tax Disk Holder Shield (TDH02)
http://www.mugsandmats.co.uk/car-bits.html at the bottom of the page. if it's got 3 colours it's 98p for a order of 250... if it's only 2 colours.. which i think black background... Red.... and Silver (the ttoc badge) is 84p each which is £210 for 250... now there's some profit to be made.... what you flog em for £2.00???,£2.50?? £3.00 giving a return of £500, £625 or £750... some good money there for the club... think i'd happily pay £3.00 for one... as the Alloy 0nes annoy the hell out of me and are about £20....


----------



## les

Looks good Tony and I am sure they would sell in quantity for not much outlay and a good return for the outlay. Like I said just 2 mins on Google and a quick phone call is all it took to find them. There may even be cheaper places out there who knows?


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

les said:


> Looks good Tony and I am sure they would sell in quantity for not much outlay and a good return for the outlay.


good return....  ya'd double ya money... and thats if you only sell 250 at £2....


----------



## CamV6

Ok, we'll do it Les, if you can store 250 mugs for us & send them out?


----------



## les

CamV6 said:


> Ok, we'll do it Les, if you can store 250 mugs for us & send them out?


 Why so negative and 250? where did you get that figure from cam? :?


----------



## CamV6

Firstly, not negative at all. Just practical issue of storgae space

Secondly, 250 is the no. of mugs mentioned by Tony above. I've only skim read the foregoing so apologoes if i misunderstood anything. will look better later


----------



## les

CamV6 said:


> Firstly, not negative at all. Just practical issue of storgae space
> 
> Secondly, 250 is the no. of mugs mentioned by Tony above. I've only skim read the foregoing so apologoes if i misunderstood anything. will look better later


OK i'm confused so could you please answer the following to clear up my confusion?
1/ Where do you store the merchandise now?
2/ Is there a problem storing merchandise?
3/ I have never seen any post asking for help storing anything relating to merchandise on here or in the TTOC mag.
4/ I assumed (maybe wrongly) it was the merchandise secretary (or whatever the title) to arrange postage and storage of merchandise if not who's job is it and is help required doing it?
5/ I can find no reference in Tony's post to mugs at 250 only tax disc's at 250. How much space would they take up do you think? 
6/ I think you have missed read the post cam. I stated 72 as an example (2 being a box full and no other reason) I also stated you can buy as many or as few as you wish. However the more you buy the cheaper per mug.
7/ John H stated could we treat this as a brain storming thread and that exactly what I was trying to do but to add to it I gave one example as to what mugs could be bought in for at a reasonable price which wouldn't mean £9 a mug as stated above in a previous post. 
8/ I thought I was being helpful as I am sure Tony was.

Thanks.


----------



## John-H

Les,

I think everyone's trying to be helpful but we are drifting into details which I'm going to be guilty of now....

You worked out £3-34p each to the club delivered in a big box of 72 mugs costing £340.19. OK, presuming we had £340.19 to spare (either risk capital or 72 signed up in a group buy etc) then there would be cost of packing and postage. Do we know how much that will be? If it was a 15oz mug (425g) and we add a little on for packaging weight, say taking it up to 500g - 2nd class packet Royal mail costs £1.85 (251-500g), or £2.14 first class with up to £39 compensation), so the break even point, not taking into account breakages, packaging materials or cost of labeling (or our time which is free) = £5.19 each.

If we say each mug purchased donates £2 to the club, then that's £7.19 each
If we say sell a mug for £10 then that would donate £4.81 to the club etc.

Let's see what the survey comes out at: * Vote Here! * and from that we may be able to pitch a realistic price.

Cheers,
John [smiley=cheers.gif]


----------



## John-H

The tax disc holders in a three colour print would cost 75p each for a 250 off order costing the club £187.50 capital. Postage would just be a stamp and envelope and I think the margins might well be better on these. The only thing we don't know is how many we'd sell.


----------



## Nem

The mugs and basic tax disc holders are definitely something to look at.

I was looking a while back at the items offered in the PistonHeads site shop, so again mugs, lanyards, etc etc and found a supplier who could offer all of the items we were looking at, but again setup costs and minimum orders were a bit preventative.

So we'll have another look at that site, cheers


----------



## les

John-H said:


> Les,
> 
> I think everyone's trying to be helpful but we are drifting into details which I'm going to be guilty of now....
> 
> You worked out £3-34p each to the club delivered in a big box of 72 mugs costing £340.19. OK, presuming we had £340.19 to spare (either risk capital or 72 signed up in a group buy etc) then there would be cost of packing and postage. Do we know how much that will be? If it was a 15oz mug (425g) and we add a little on for packaging weight, say taking it up to 500g - 2nd class packet Royal mail costs £1.85 (251-500g), or £2.14 first class with up to £39 compensation), so the break even point, not taking into account breakages, packaging materials or cost of labeling (or our time which is free) = £5.19 each.
> 
> If we say each mug purchased donates £2 to the club, then that's £7.19 each
> If we say sell a mug for £10 then that would donate £4.81 to the club etc.
> 
> Let's see what the survey comes out at: * Vote Here! * and from that we may be able to pitch a realistic price.
> 
> Cheers,
> John [smiley=cheers.gif]


Andrew stated Quote "You see thats the problem, they work out at nearly £9 and the club wouldn't make anything to cover the time spent on the orders." That was in relation to somebody selling mugs on eBay as I understand him not to the club buying and selling mugs on..

I thought people wanted details that is putting meat on the bones John :? ( IME most people do). I gave that as an example, I also stated I spent 2 mins on Google and there maybe cheaper and better deals out there to be had. I know others clubs sell mugs and bought one myself not so long ago for £9. However they could be offered at TTOC events and cruises around the country getting over the postage. BTW I was told the mugs are 10oz mugs as standard so not 100% if that is the dry weight and what more packaging would add to the weight but I wouldn't have thought 50%. If an outlay of £300 is too much and will tie up too much club funds fine. How much do the £99 jackets tie up or the fleeces, tops and the like and how much space to they take up? A box of 72 mugs wouldn't take up so much space surely but I await the answers to my question to cam. I am not sure a vote on here would be accurate or even representative of what people would pay for a mug either but worth a go What about Tony's idea of tax discs which you appear to believe is a good option judging by previous posts?

Cheers.

Les


----------



## les

John-H said:


> The tax disc holders in a three colour print would cost 75p each for a 250 off order costing the club £187.50 capital. Postage would just be a stamp and envelope and I think the margins might well be better on these. The only thing we don't know is how many we'd sell.


 Of course you don't know how many you will sell how could you in fact how could you about any merchandise such as jackets at £99 and other much more expensive items than mugs and tax disc holders surely not a big sellers. :?

Cheers

Les.


----------



## les

Nem said:


> The mugs and basic tax disc holders are definitely something to look at.
> 
> I was looking a while back at the items offered in the PistonHeads site shop, so again mugs, lanyards, etc etc and found a supplier who could offer all of the items we were looking at, but again setup costs and minimum orders were a bit preventative.
> 
> So we'll have another look at that site, cheers


Yep mugs on there are £5-50p each with postage and vat. £9-40p Sounds about right.


----------



## CamV6

the jackets etc are ordered from the supplier piece by piece


----------



## John-H

Yes it would be best if we could find someone who was willing to handle orders packaging and delivery, one by one like the clothing in our shop, so we don't need to hold stock but simply pass on the order and we don't need to tie up capital.

Tooling may be a charge we'd have to bear but some places might spread that into the cost of future business with us.

A box of mugs and a box of tax disc holders is not a huge amount to store in itself. Just to put you in the picture Les, we used to hold stock of all the club items like flags and merchandise in a paid for storage facility but we took all the stuff out to save costs and have since been storing the stuff ourselves. I've got a spare bedroom full of stuff. Volunteer stock holders would be another idea 

Perhaps we could negotiate a smaller minimum order based on a business model of sustained future orders? We would need some for shows as Les mentioned.


----------



## les

John-H said:


> Yes it would be best if we could find someone who was willing to handle orders packaging and delivery, one by one like the clothing in our shop, so we don't need to hold stock but simply pass on the order and we don't need to tie up capital.
> 
> Tooling may be a charge we'd have to bear but some places might spread that into the cost of future business with us.
> 
> A box of mugs and a box of tax disc holders is not a huge amount to store in itself. Just to put you in the picture Les, we used to hold stock of all the club items like flags and merchandise in a paid for storage facility but we took all the stuff out to save costs and have since been storing the stuff ourselves. I've got a spare bedroom full of stuff. Volunteer stock holders would be another idea
> 
> Perhaps we could negotiate a smaller minimum order based on a business model of sustained future orders? We would need some for shows as Les mentioned.


 All sensible stuff John and thank you for the reply much appreciated.

Cheers. 

Les.


----------



## Bladerider

les said:


> I was chatting to a fellow member of the TTOC and a regular poster on here and the conversation turned to the membership and just what you get for your £30 annual membership fee. Now don't get me wrong I am happy to pay the membership fee as I have for the past 3 years. However what I find a bit hard to swallow is that there are a lot of members on here who are not members of the TTOC. They pay nothing but get a lot out of it. I know a lot of sites where if you are not a paying member of the body you can' read on their forum or if you can read you certainly can't post on it. I also wonder has anybody ever worked out what the percentage on non TTOC members are on here? :?
> 
> So for your £30 annual fee what do you get that a non TTOC member gets on here.? I can think of but 3 things. The magazine ((great magazine it is too) which consists of just 4 issues at a cost of £7-50p each. We get voting rights at the annual general meeting and you can become a committee member if you are voted in. Now I have to say unless I am missing something that don't add up to a right lot.
> More examples of what non TTOC peeps on her get. They get to go on cruises and meets, can take advantages of group buys, they can ask questions and get help. They can buy and sell items in fact they get everything a paying member gets apart from the above.
> 
> I wonder should this forum only be open to paying members of the TTOC and if I recall right (forgive me if I am wrong) some of our membership fee goes towards the running and upkeep for this forum? So what do you recon am I being a bit too touchy over this and it all fair?
> 
> Over to you.


Aha !!

This explains so very much !!!

You missed out on one other key benefit of being a paid member that you seem to use all the time without even thinking about it.....

A self deluded moral high ground on which you seem to enjoy looking down on people !!

I wish I had found this post earlier - it just backs up the many years of forum experience I have which was telling me in the other thread that you're a world class stroker !!

Doesn't look like too many people on here want you or agree with you fella, maybe its time to start up Les'slonelyheartsclubfroum.com !!!

 

Be well (are you red and sweaty yet ??)

[email protected]


----------



## les

Bladerider said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was chatting to a fellow member of the TTOC and a regular poster on here and the conversation turned to the membership and just what you get for your £30 annual membership fee. Now don't get me wrong I am happy to pay the membership fee as I have for the past 3 years. However what I find a bit hard to swallow is that there are a lot of members on here who are not members of the TTOC. They pay nothing but get a lot out of it. I know a lot of sites where if you are not a paying member of the body you can' read on their forum or if you can read you certainly can't post on it. I also wonder has anybody ever worked out what the percentage on non TTOC members are on here? :?
> 
> So for your £30 annual fee what do you get that a non TTOC member gets on here.? I can think of but 3 things. The magazine ((great magazine it is too) which consists of just 4 issues at a cost of £7-50p each. We get voting rights at the annual general meeting and you can become a committee member if you are voted in. Now I have to say unless I am missing something that don't add up to a right lot.
> More examples of what non TTOC peeps on her get. They get to go on cruises and meets, can take advantages of group buys, they can ask questions and get help. They can buy and sell items in fact they get everything a paying member gets apart from the above.
> 
> I wonder should this forum only be open to paying members of the TTOC and if I recall right (forgive me if I am wrong) some of our membership fee goes towards the running and upkeep for this forum? So what do you recon am I being a bit too touchy over this and it all fair?
> 
> Over to you.
> 
> 
> 
> Aha !!
> 
> This explains so very much !!!
> 
> You missed out on one other key benefit of being a paid member that you seem to use all the time without even thinking about it.....
> 
> A self deluded moral high ground on which you seem to enjoy looking down on people !!
> 
> I wish I had found this post earlier - it just backs up the many years of forum experience I have which was telling me in the other thread that you're a world class stroker !!
> 
> Doesn't look like too many people on here want you or agree with you fella, maybe its time to start up Les'slonelyheartsclubfroum.com !!!
> 
> 
> 
> Be well (are you red and sweaty yet ??)
> 
> [email protected]
Click to expand...

 Thanks for you honest views, BTW what have you done for this club as I am struggling to find anything? If nothing else I am glad to have provided you with much needed humour your a class act and just the kind of person the TTOC needs as a member so why not stop being a free loader and join hey


----------



## Bladerider

Theres two thing Les, which are about you personally in part and also about the forum and this topic, as i do try to answer topics as well.

I have been an active member of the Skyline GTR Register since 2001, I watched that club split for various reasons and then the club that broke away - skylineowners - split a second time. All because the members felt there was a bias towards the GTR, the GTS and lower model owners were looked down upon - I myself felt that it began as the GTR club and was rightfully biased towards the GTR but certainly never looked down on owners of the "lower models" simply that they were kind of acting like someone who was already defensive because they couldn't afford or didn't own a GTR.

Now whether I was right or wrong, the club and its forum were right or wrong and whether the people affected were correct to hold that belief is irrelevent, it was a strong enough movement that with a little pushing from certain parties the club split, and in my opinion became poorer as a result.

I can see similar trends in what you have said and what is being posted on here. You came across incredibly condescending on the other thread and highly defensive of the TT - I can respect that to a degree as its the TTF and did qualify my remarks in my original post - and indeed your whole demeanour online when I am reading it comes across as aloof and very much like you feel you are better than me despite knowing nothing about me purely because of your avatar. "I" am not the point however. The point is how I "feel" and perceive this interaction. And my honest opinion is that you do yourself and this club no favours.

I have been pretty blunt to you because I spend alot of my time battering trolls and idiots into submission on other forums for their obvious ploys, and general disruptive behaviour. But occasionally I get off on the wrong foot with someone who is genuine and has perhaps just worded their first few posts poorly or I misunderstood what they said. I make a point of apologising quickly and repairing any damage I did. The difference was that when I found this happening with you (in reverse roles for a change it seemed lol) that it was pretty obvious that no matter what I said you were not going to back down and seemed to be spoiling for a fight. Hence why I bowed out of the other discussion as this is not my home and I respect that I am the newbie here and it was not my place to wade in too heavily.

What is the point of all this ??

Well its pretty simple.

This topic, your demeanour and so on is very unwelcoming to new users of this site. Alot of the other people I have read on here seem pretty well balanced, but it only takes a few with the same attitude as you that will result in a split occuring like it did on GTR and that is always a shame. Posting up that you feel this place should be for paid up members only will only have a single inescapable result....that a new forum will start that isn't paid membership cliquey club only, and the membership of that club like the proportion of paid vs unpaid members here will greatly outnumber the TTOC and as a result you guys will be poorer for it.

I personally dont think anyone should be looking to become a member of a car club purely for what financial benefits they get out of it. Starting from that perspective is the wrong one imho. If I own a car that I identify with strongly enough then i will pay a membership subscription to be part of that club whether it means I get 10% off at halfords or half price round the world fares with BA. The point is that you should identify with the car and its owners enough to want to join, the benefits are just a perk as a BONUS of membership, not its raison d'etre.

I agree with what some have said on this thread about transparency of the committee and having more interaction between the club and the forum, this is exactly the same on GTR Register but you will always find that the forum is the buzzing heart of affairs as its what was evolved out of initial club culture in the first place. I dont think there should be a them and us attitude, it should simply be that TTOC members have a few more priveleges, have a cameraderie and be satisfied that they have put their money in to ensure the long term welfare of the club and website they want to be part of - not that they are subsidising it for others.

James.


----------



## les

Yawnnnn. [smiley=baby.gif] Fully paid up member of the TTOC here 3 years plus membership, brought people into the TTOC and active within the NW group and beyond, arranging group buys, meets and cruises to mention just a few. So remind everybody just what you have done? I'm not going to read through your long winded post I quite simply got bored after the first paragraph and I can't be bothered to read the rest. Have a go by all means but why don't you put your money where your mouth is and join the TTOC. I know its me who stopping you right. :roll: Am not going to continue answering your personal attacks on me as there's little to be gained and it will just bore the people on here. So your long winded posts just been a waste of time apart from giving a few people the odd laugh. I am sure you can find better use of your time than to snipe at me but then again perhaps not. :-*


----------



## Bladerider

I have lots of spare time.

You wouldn't know this but I have spent a large portion of the year in hospital and nerely died three times, hence why I cant work much at the mo.

You should read the reply, it is meant genuinely and you might learn something. I would add that I should thank you for your post for pretty much underlining everything I wrote which you say you haven't read.

I dont need to put my money where my mouth is here, I have already done that plenty in the drift and modifeid car scene........have you heard of Time Attack ?? or EDC ?? GTBattle or Modified Live ?? or ever been to Santa Pod and watched the drift demos, or been to a DWYB day ???

Im not here to compare, but i suspect I have done a fair share for the car world in genral.

J.


----------



## CamV6

Bladerider said:


> I personally dont think anyone should be looking to become a member of a car club purely for what financial benefits they get out of it. Starting from that perspective is the wrong one imho. If I own a car that I identify with strongly enough then i will pay a membership subscription to be part of that club whether it means I get 10% off at halfords or half price round the world fares with BA. The point is that you should identify with the car and its owners enough to want to join, the benefits are just a perk as a BONUS of membership, not its raison d'etre.
> 
> James.


Well said and quite right.

Les, I'm not going to answer your questions from before. Frankly I find the enquiries OTT and offensive.

I'll tell you what, and I'm serious here, if you reckon you'd do better, I'll stand down as Merch Sec and you can take over. Either agree or stop being so offensive to me and the rest of us who do this for no gain, and just for the love of it. Frankly you take all the joy out of doing something for the greater good.

I want and encourage help, helpful suggestions and ideas. What I wont put up with us a witch-hunt (no that isnt rhyming slang!)


----------



## les

CamV6 said:


> Bladerider said:
> 
> 
> 
> I personally dont think anyone should be looking to become a member of a car club purely for what financial benefits they get out of it. Starting from that perspective is the wrong one imho. If I own a car that I identify with strongly enough then i will pay a membership subscription to be part of that club whether it means I get 10% off at halfords or half price round the world fares with BA. The point is that you should identify with the car and its owners enough to want to join, the benefits are just a perk as a BONUS of membership, not its raison d'etre.
> 
> James.
> 
> 
> 
> Well said and quite right.
> 
> Les, I'm not going to answer your questions from before. Frankly I find the enquiries OTT and offensive.
> 
> I'll tell you what, and I'm serious here, if you reckon you'd do better, I'll stand doen as Merch Sec and you can take over. Either agree or stop being so offensive to me and the rest of us who do this for no gain, and just for the love of it. Frankly you take all the joy out of doing something for the greater good.
> 
> I want and encourage help, helpful suggestions and ideas. What I wont put up with us a witch-hunt (no that isnt rhyming slang!)
Click to expand...

Sorry you feel that way Cam however nobody is suggesting your not doing a good job in fact nobody is suggesting any of the committee is doing anything other than a good job. I simply asked some honest and straight forward questions. You talked about ordering, storing and the posting 250 mugs and got the wrong end of the stick as I never mentioned so many as you know. We all make mistakes and if you found my questions following your asking me about storage and postage and the like I am sorry about that as well. That's what can happen when somebody miss reads a post and replies after getting it wrong.

I think you will find as an ordinary fully paid up member of the TTOC I have done more than my fair share of helping others both on here and within the TTOC in more ways than one and yes even committee member's. Some of my suggestions have resulted in further exploration into them with the possibility of adopting a few as a number will testify. However seeing you feel so strongly there is no need for you to offer to resign. I will offer to you directly my resignation and I promise to keep away from all things TTOC related. I don't think I can be fairer than that and think in the circumstances its the honourable thing to do. That's one thorn in your side removed. Sorry to leave this way but I am sure you will understand its for the good of the club and committee who can carry on with the job in hand. If you send me details of where to send my membership card I will send it and anything else to them forthwith.
Thanks.

Les.


----------



## CamV6

do what you want Les, I couldnt care less I'm that TTeed off at the moment.

How dare you ask about my personal life and circumstances. If I say I dont have storage space then I dont have it FFS.

Now grow up


----------



## Bladerider

les said:


> Boo hoo Boo hoo,
> 
> Woe is me, woe is me !!
> 
> You dont luvs me so I'll resign and do it publicly to ensure maximum nobility and kudos !!
> 
> Les.


Haha !!

Thats the funniest thing I have read in a long time.



CamV6 said:


> Grow up


^^^

What he said !!

Seriously Les, you need to realise that you have the ability to learn and change rather than just sulk and be petulant.

I bet you're an OK bloke in person.

J.


----------



## les

CamV6 said:


> How dare you ask about my personal life and circumstances. If I say I dont have storage space then I dont have it FFS.
> 
> Now grow up


 Hey I asked you about what? I can't see anywhere in any of my posts that I asked any such thing personal or otherwise? I was not referring to you but the club (the royal where do you store them not you personally ) as to where the items are stored at the moment I didn't for one moment think you stored them yourself nor was enquiring about your "personal life or circumstances":? Anyway you I would be grateful if you could reply to my question where I should send my membership card as requested or get somebody on the committee to reply on your behalf. The sooner this is done and dusted the better for the TTOC as a whole as I have no wish to carry this on for the reasons already given.

Thanks.

Les.


----------



## rustyintegrale

:roll:


----------



## KammyTT

jeez, what a load of crap!

grow up the lot of ya! :wink:


----------



## tony_rigby_uk

First up "Bladerider" for a guy who joined up 4 days ago you clearly have a big mouth and aren't appreciative of the origins of all this...and all that just after 8days of joining the TTF.... Now when i was last looking this topic became a idea arena... quite simply your post was bang out of line with regard to les... think you should have a good look at how active this guy has been in arranging NW events, group buys, ect.... and i think the frustrations of les do come across badly on some occasions but not since page #1 where mark reworded it in a format that showed it wasn't an attack on this club......

Think seriously you need to have been on the forum for longer than 8 days to judge someone... and in your case you haven't done that and yet still gone after les... which makes me think are you really a newbie... or someone who's set up an account to have a pop at les.... hmmm who could that be i wonder :roll:


----------



## Bladerider

tony_rigby_uk said:


> First up "Bladerider" for a guy who joined up 4 days ago you clearly have a big mouth and aren't appreciative of the origins of all this...and all that just after 8days of joining the TTF.... Now when i was last looking this topic became a idea arena... quite simply your post was bang out of line with regard to les... think you should have a good look at how active this guy has been in arranging NW events, group buys, ect.... and i think the frustrations of les do come across badly on some occasions but not since page #1 where mark reworded it in a format that showed it wasn't an attack on this club......
> 
> Think seriously you need to have been on the forum for longer than 8 days to judge someone... and in your case you haven't done that and yet still gone after les... which makes me think are you really a newbie... or someone who's set up an account to have a pop at les.... hmmm who could that be i wonder :roll:


Sorry fella,

Google or just simply reading my posts will tell you precisely who I am. I am on plenty of forums, always with this username and whilst I agree that I do have an opinion that some may interpret as a "big mouth" as you so kindly put it, I certainly was not the person who stirred up trouble on this or the other thread where les decided he would do some noobie bashing.

Unfortunately I may be a noob on here and have made reference to the fact, but I am certainly not a noob on car forums and don't see why i should have to totally forgo my opinion just because i havent been here as long as some. I feel i have been pretty respectful of the environment here and made numerous allowances for the fact I am in your house, rather than the other way round. I would also point out that I dont need to have been around for 8 days to recognise when someone is being overly agressive, abusive, condescending and troublesome. Certainly it seems some other senior members agree with my inadequate newb opinion.

While I may not have been around here long I have been round the block a few times and wonder did you actually read my longer post Tony or are you just sticking up for your mate ?? I can understand you coming to the defense of a fellow member which is fine, but at least take the time to read what others write before going off on one.

Cheers,

J.


----------



## audimad

Why does the club need mugs anyway, there are plenty in the TTOC already. :lol:


----------



## Bladerider

Am I allowed to laugh at that ??

Or do I need to be here longer first ??

:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Redscouse

I think you both need to step back and chill.

In regards to what the thread was started about in the first place, as a few people have mentioned, we have taken on ideas of a few people and seeing what we can do about them. This thread has gone off-track a few times, but lets keep it focused on what it was posted for and about.

[smiley=smash.gif]


----------



## Bladerider

I had a quick scan but forgive me if Im looking in the wrong place,

One of the most popular things the GTR Register do is a yearly calender. People suggest cars or send in pictures of their own cars for inclusion and then its printed up and offered for sale. Now perhaps as an extra incentive members cars only should be considered for the calender and perhaps they get an extra discount for purchasing.

I guess one of the key things would be a two tier level of discounts. You want to encourage people to join TTF and stay here so they could benefit from a certain level of discount on items, group buys and so on, and then you should further incentivise people making that jump from Forum member to Club member, and they should perhaps be given a little bit extra where possible.

As i said, personally I dont join a club for financial reasons its just a bonus to get stuff when you do, but i can see a case for increasing membership and therefore what the club can acheive and afford to do in the future. My annoyance with les means I have not read this entire thread but simple things like larger avatars and sigs for members all mean that regular forum users can see a distinction even with regular forum life and perhaps want to be part of that. You could go a stage further given that the sales side of any forum is usually one of the key benefits all users make use of, and perhaps limit non members to a single sale thread at a time, TTOC members could have no such restrictions.

Just a couple of ideas.

J.


----------



## Matt B

Bladerider
All I will say is you have got Les completely wrong. He is a very active member of the NW group, he is never too busy to help new members with advice and or making them feel right at home on their first meets or whatever.
Les' posts bear the hallmarks of frustration with the owners club and the fact that there has been a rather protracted situation where our "club" has left us to our own devices in terms of organising gatherings etc, but only too willing to fill its magazine with stuff we have done without a rep. And yet, when we have asked (reasonably) about the situation we have been fobbed off (several times).
You accused Les of not reading your words but you are missing out on a "back story" that goes back over two years and jumping to the wrong conclusions.


----------



## John-H

Well having read the last two pages I'm quite shocked at how a thread supposed to be generating ideas and having sensible discussions about the club has degenerated into petty bickering and personal insults - which I would like to remind people are against forum rules and can get you banned off here - but that's a side issue. Has anyone stopped to think how this looks to anyone reading it? Has anyone stopped to consider the bigger picture? It appears no*TT* (hint). Well could you all do so now please as I've a good mind to hack off the last two pointless pages of personal abuse into the flame room and you can carry on there if you like! In fact, if you want to have an agument do it by PM. Now calm down and stop being so reactionary. Good grief :roll: Show us you have the club's best interests at heart, can rise above this and get on! One or two appologies would help too :!:


----------



## les

Sorry for my part in this even if my motives are honourable, I only ever had the club at heart and don't recall giving any abuse personal or otherwise but if I have then sorry it wasn't meant so. At least I have done the decent thing and resigned from the TTOC. I guess at least I was a member to be able to resign :lol: Sorry no offence meant or intended to anybody.

Thanks for the support I have been given now and in the past and for listening. I agree with John time to move on for the benefit of the TTOC and TTF.

Les.


----------



## CamV6

les said:


> At least I have done the decent thing and resigned from the TTOC.
> Les.


How does that work out?

What in this scenario requires a reasonable person to "resign" from his membership to the club?

I got TT'ed off with you, and spoke my mind. End of story.

John, you are right, it doesnt reflect well at all and I apologise for the poor PR.

Les, for what it's worth, I was wholly very annoyed with you (let it go now tho!) and I'll genuinely apologise to you for not rising above it and just keeping my gob shut and refusing to get involved. I felt you were being very unfair indeed and reacted and shouldnt have.

Right, can we move on now.

Personally I happen to think mugs are a bit cheesy.

Also, I'd be very interested to know (if anyone has a view) would you guys rather buy solely TTOC branded stuff, or would you appreciate the option of buying clothing or whatever with just a 'TT' mark?

I hope this wont sound disloyal to the club, but personally I'm more likely to but 'TT' items. What do we all think?


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## bigsyd

i am absolutely fed up to the back teeth of all this, all that was being asked was a rep for the NW and i come home from working 12hrs to this.... Les forget it all m8 its not worth the time and energy, lets just carry on as we was, we do not need a rep, let the keyboard warriors have there moment of grandeur, and ignore it all, TTOC it was good while it lasted


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## Redscouse

Syd, this thread was not started due to the NW Rep situation, it was something different

Paul


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## Bladerider

Well,

If I have jumped to the wrong conclusion then I am sorry. As i said in another post I am fairly passionate but reasonable as well and if Les is anything like me then I can see how it would be easy to arrive at the wrong end of the stick.

Hope this helps dissipate any anymosity from my end.

J.


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## kmpowell

Ok guys - I think this thread has run its cause in this environment. Nothing but bad feeling is being generated, which is not what the TTF is about.

We would prefer it if the discussion was continued (if it is to continue) away from the forum.

Thanks
Kevin


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