# BMW 320 sport plus version



## pars_andy (Dec 10, 2009)

Hi,

I know this is probably blasphemous but I'm considering trading my mk 2 petrol stronic Quattro. It's purely for cost reasons and right now it feels like a very tough decision to make. I'm slightly tempted by the 320d because of the running costs. I've seen one which is about 6 month old and well specced. The question I have is, am i going to completely hate it moving from the TT?
I can cope with the drop in speed as I drove the diesel TT for a few days and was happy enough with it. I'm just worried that the Beamer is gonna roll like all over the shop.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Get one with MSport suspension and non run flats.

It will handle better than the TT.


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## RockKramer (Feb 15, 2012)

I can't remember a BMW ever being critised for having too much roll, even without MSport Suspension... I'd have the MSport and non run flats and as Kell says, will handle better than TT.


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## pars_andy (Dec 10, 2009)

The one I'm looking at is the sports plus version although it's the saloon rather than coupe. I'm sure it has m sport suspension but it also has run flats. Since cost cutting is the aim, I'd keep the run flats until they need replaced and then swap. Cheers for the honest advice though guys. I'm going to test drive on Sunday so maybe I'll be feeling a bit less traumatised then. 
I absolutely love my car and everything about it makes me feel great. The cabin is an amazing place to be and I love the s tronic as well. Keeping it past warranty worries me a little though.


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## Super Josh (May 29, 2009)

What costs are you trying to save? Have you sat down and worked out the difference between the two cars to see how much you'll save and whether it is worth the change?

SJ


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## RockKramer (Feb 15, 2012)

You may not find running on run flats a big issue. So many people speak out against them but I wouldn't be surprised if a good %age is 'rumour and hearsay' rather than actual experience. Yes they were royally criticised when first introduced but BMW haven't exactly struggled to sell run flat shod cars. A work colleague had one and the firm ride was fine. TT's are no magic carpet after all... And of course you'll be able to change them out at some point.
Keeping the TT past warranty worries you??? You had troubles or worries about the STronic? Extended warranty not an option? Of course none of that matters as you're changing on costs grounds. Let us know your thoughts after your test drive.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

RockKramer said:


> You may not find running on run flats a big issue. So many people speak out against them but I wouldn't be surprised if a good %age is 'rumour and hearsay' rather than actual experience. Yes they were royally criticised when first introduced but BMW haven't exactly struggled to sell run flat shod cars. A work colleague had one and the firm ride was fine. TT's are no magic carpet after all... And of course you'll be able to change them out at some point.
> Keeping the TT past warranty worries you??? You had troubles or worries about the STronic? Extended warranty not an option? Of course none of that matters as you're changing on costs grounds. Let us know your thoughts after your test drive.


Whilst there's a lot of 'rumour and hearsay' surrounding the handling differences with runflats (mainly from people who've not owned a BMW fitted with them), there's a lot of truth in what's being said too. I found the difference to be very obvious on the two cars I changed tyres on, and I'm no racing driver. That being said, if they have nothing to compare it to, I don't think the OP will have any massive issues with the handling of the 320 on runflats and as has been said, it should be better than the TT. It will just be a nice bonus when they change to non-runflats later on and improve the handling even more.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

I speak from personal experience - both the BMW and our Mini had run flats when we bought them.

I would physically wince and prepare myself for a huge shudder when passengering in someone else's car on a road I knew to be problematic in my 5. the road by my old house being a prime example. It had three huge speed bumps which I would slow to less than 5 mph in in the Beemer. Mate of mine picked me up and drove over one at about 20mph in an A4 S-line (itself cricised for having concrete suspension) with no problems. The 5 would have had a hernia at that speed.

When I swapped out the summer run flat for winter non-run flats, it transformed the 'comfort' of the car.

Similarly, when I did the same on our Mini convertible last year, it virtually eradicated scuttle shake and made the car a much nicer place to be.

I have heard however, that early fives weren't engineered to work with RF tyres and the combination of tghem and the RF didn't really work. Later BM suspension systems were designed to complement RF tyres and so aren't so much of a problem. I can only speak as I find, and I find RF tyres to be a right royal pain in the arse.

I've also been left stranded with RF tyres on two occasions because you can only drive 50 miles at 50 mph before the tyre distintegrates. Which is fine if you're less than 50 miles from a tyre place. And it's not 8pm on a Sunday evening, for example.


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## pars_andy (Dec 10, 2009)

Hi. Thanks for all the responses. The money saving issue is a complicated one. I'm planning on doing a social work degree through distance learning. I need to fund it myself and in early 2015 I need to spend 5 - 6 months on placement and I will receive no income for that period. As it stands I would finish off my current loan in mid 2015. 
Im already saving aggressively but it wont be enough. I reckon that if I changed to the BMW I would save just over £100 a month. This is partly through a reduction in servicing costs, tyre costs (I have 19" tyres at the moment), road tax and fuel. The majority of that £100 however will be down to reducing my monthly loan payments. Although my finance would then be extended to 2017 and long term, I probably wont save the 'price to change' it would achieve my goal of getting the money I need in my savings at the time I need it. 
Added to that, my mileage is currently very low (7.5k a year) but there are potential changes at work which might lead to this almost doubling, so fuel savings might rise above the negligible if I switch to a diesel. 
However...last night I realised that I am now ahead of the depreciation curve for my car so changing in 1-2 years time might actually allow me to save more than changing now (so long as what cars figures are accurate). 
Now that the boring stuff is out of the way, it essentially boils down to whether or not I like the BMW. I have a test drive booked for today at 4:30pm and I'll report back on how I get on. The 18" run flats would definitely be coming off at tyre change time. For cost and performance reasons. As I've mentioned though, I have 19" wheels on my TT at the moment and it's anything but smooth, so I'm sure I could live with the run flats for a short time!


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

If you want to save money, then surely owning any decent modern car doesn't make much sense. Just buy a sub-£1000 beater and spend bugger all on insurance and running costs till you're in a position to drive something nicer (and I use the word 'nicer' in the loosest possible term, as there are plenty of cheap bangers I'd personally get more enjoyment from driving than a 320d).


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## pars_andy (Dec 10, 2009)

I suppose it's about compromise really. It's about having the best car I can afford whilst doing the course.


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## pars_andy (Dec 10, 2009)

Rock Kramer...I realise I didn't answer your question regarding the s tronic. I've had no concerns at all with my gearbox. It's never missed a beat. I remember reading a number of threads a while back about its unreliability though. And a failed Mechatronic unit apparently costs around 5k. 
I guess I'm just a bit worried about keeping this car 5-6 years for that reason.


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## pars_andy (Dec 10, 2009)

Just back. I won't be buying a 320d


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

What was wrong with it?


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## MP (Feb 22, 2008)

I've gone from a TT with standard suspension to a 318d M Sport due to growing family and regret it due to the ride / run-flats. I've had the car for 18 months, will probably put up with it for another year then swap it for something more comfortable. That said, on the motorway, you can't fault it.

But more to the point, don't buy a BMW at the moment until they sort out the problem of them getting nicked without the keys, like Adebyor's X6...


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

MP said:


> But more to the point, don't buy a BMW at the moment until they sort out the problem of them getting nicked without the keys, like Adebyor's X6...


I think the problems that have been in the press recently are only related to cars with 'comfort access' and as far as I can tell the issues are the same with any manufacturer - it's just that the highest profile cases have been BMWs.


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## pars_andy (Dec 10, 2009)

Ok. I'll try and share my thoughts from my test drive. I should start by saying that I'm not a motoring journalist and haven't had an enormous amount of experience with different cars but here goes..I'm sure there won't be too many surprises.

Firstly, I asked to test drive a 320d sport plus coupe as I thought this would be closest to the car I was thinking of buying from the other dealer. The other dealer is 200 miles away so I had to make do. After driving off in the coupe it was apparent that something was very wrong and we quickly realised that the run flats had actually run flat. The dealer guided me back to the showroom and found me a 1 year old 320d m-sport saloon to try.

First the good points. 
-I loved the chunky steering wheel. It felt good in the hand and i massively preferred it to the slimmer s-line one I have in the TT. 
-It had decent low end pull. There was a bit of a grunt to the engine and it felt powerful particularly in the lower gears. 
-I liked the balance of the car when cornering. I've never driven a rear wheel drive before but the car certainly felt different. I don't know how to explain it but it felt like it was pivoting around me rather than the front of the car dragging me around. Good stuff! And definitely no roll. 
-The ride was a good bit more refined. Obviously not in the coupe with the flat 19" tyres... But the 18" saloon felt a fair bit smoother than my TT.

Next the bad.
-It didn't feel as exciting to drive as my current car. It's obviously not as quick and I love the stronic on my TT. The ride height is a bit higher in the BMW and it didn't feel as sporty. 
-Gear shifts weren't great. There was a bit too much travel in the gear stick and it felt a bit murky. 
-Grip wasn't great. I guess some people might view this as a positive I suppose and I might grow to like it, but with my short experience with the car I'll put it in the bad category. To explain, the roads were greasy and I went relatively tight into a roundabout with moderate speed. The back end slid out and the traction control kicked it. I've attacked tighter turns with more speed in my Quattro and its gripped all the way round without the traction control flashing. Don't get me wrong, the BMW still went where I was pointing and I didn't feel it was out of control at any point but it surprised me how easily this happened. I definitely wonder what this would do to the rear tyres if it happened regularly. 
-Externally, it looked ordinary. Not bad by any means but ordinary. I know that's a cliched thing for a TT driver to say, but I'm sure most owners have fallen in love with the looks of their car at some point. 
-Internally....It was awful imho. Despite being full leather the cabin just seemed dull and bland. The coupe was slightly better as it had sat nav but it was still miles and miles behind the TT. The instrument cluster was flat and lifeless. It wasn't actually all that clear either. Worst of all though...there was bits everywhere. There seemed to be about 10 switches under the radio and just buttons everywhere. It was as if BMW just couldn't cope with wasted space. A small 1cm gap above the glove compartment??? Let's shove a couple of cheap plastic cup holders there. There was nothing intuitive about it and I would need to study the manual to find out what anything does. Just poor design in general. By comparison, the TT interior is clean, elegant and stunning. 
-Finally, the sound system was terrible. I have Bose on my mk 2 with an aftermarket head unit and sonically it's behind my previous mk1. Compared to the Beamer though, it's stunning. The BMW had 6 tiny speakers which were totally lifeless. It may not seem like a biggie to some people but it's important to me. I know I could always install some aftermarket speakers but if my motivation is to cut costs this isn't going to help.

So that's it in a nutshell. The BMW isnt a bad car by any means. And it's true to say that if I had more experience of the BMW than the TT, I might have focussed more on where the TT lags. The bottom line is though, I prefer what I've got at the moment. I will need to change my car at some point before my 6 month placement in 2015... in order to turn the equity into cash. However, as I'm now clearing my finance off quicker than my current car is depreciating, it actually makes financial sense to keep my TT for the next 1-2 years.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

pars_andy said:


> Ok. I'll try and share my thoughts from my test drive. I should start by saying that I'm not a motoring journalist and haven't had an enormous amount of experience with different cars but here goes..I'm sure there won't be too many surprises.
> 
> ...


There are motoring journalists who've written shorter reviews than that... :wink:

I think the runflats might have been the cause of the lack of grip at the rear, although you do have to apply the power a bit differently with rwd to get the most out of it. I found with my mk1 TT I could just throw it into a corner without really thinking about it, but with rwd I got used to thinking ahead more, setting the car up for a corner, rather than relying on the car to sort it out. My 996 had no traction/stability control and I'd never get the back end stepping out unexpectedly.


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## pars_andy (Dec 10, 2009)

Haha. Yeah I realised I was going on a bit whilst I was typing. Can I ask what you currently drive? And would you go for a 320d over the TT?


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## Hark (Aug 23, 2007)

I must admit I'm shocked. Lol -_-

A Quattro equipped TT gripped better around a greasy island?

And your Bose optional extra in the TT with upgraded headunit was not as good as a standard base spec 6 speaker BMW setup. A top end BMW system will piss all over the mk2 Bose system.

I think you need to think about what you want. The grip in a quattro TT is amazing. Any rwd car will struggle in greasy conditions. I think driving my TT taught me very little about how a quick car handles as conditions affect it so little.


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## pars_andy (Dec 10, 2009)

Haha. After the test drive, I'm now clear what I want. I want to keep my current car for another couple of years. 
I just don't think I was prepared for how awful the sound was in the BMW. The Bose in my mark 2 is nothing to write home about in my opinion. And it pales in comparison to the Bose I had in my mark 1. The car I was thinking about buying only had the standard speakers though so it's a fair comparison for me. I wasn't trying to compare the best specced 3 series to the best specced TT. I was just comparing my car to the one I was thinking about buying.


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## Hark (Aug 23, 2007)

If you kept looking mate you'd find one with the better systems. The 10 speaker system I had in my Z4M was pretty decent.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

pars_andy said:


> Haha. Yeah I realised I was going on a bit whilst I was typing. Can I ask what you currently drive? And would you go for a 320d over the TT?


I changed my Porsche for a VW Touareg. I decided chugging around in comfort was more fun than ratting around in a missile. Plus, I've always wanted a 4x4.

Not sure which I'd choose (although I've not driven a mk2 TT so this is based on what I've read rather than experience). I like BMWs generally and I actually prefer the interior of the 3-series to the mk2 TT but I think the exterior of the TT is better looking. If the 3-series was well spec'ed (pro nav, etc), I think I'd go for that - I like rwd cars (not in a drifting round corners way - just the extra control they give you) and I just think the BMW would be a more accomplished car. I'm willing to sacrifice image for that.


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## pars_andy (Dec 10, 2009)

Cheers. The 3 series I was looking at is incredibly well spec'ed. It has the full professional media package, dab radio, awful speakers ;-), folding mirrors, auto headlights and rain sensors, rear parking sensors, servotronic steering, privacy glass and heated seats. 
The mk2 is a much better car to drive than the obscenely heavy unmodded mk1. I had a mk1 for 7 years and I couldn't believe the difference in the mk2 so maybe your opinion might be different if you'd given that a go. I'm surprised you prefer the 3 series interior though. it really was the thing I liked least about the car. 
Anyway...thanks for all the feedback. If things change at work resulting in a large mileage increase, I will need to change my car soon and the 3 series might well be the best option. If my mileage stays low, I will change in 1-2 years time.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Horses for courses really.

IMHO, there's no nicer place to be than inside an Audi. They just 'do' interiors so well.

But when it came down to change time for us, we had a different set of circumstances (everyone does). We had our TT and an A4 Avant. And wanted an bigger estate car. The only way to do that was to sell the TT (as it was worth more) and buy a big estate. As I was selling our quick car, I wanted the Estate to have some pace. Originally looked at 3.0d A6s but they were a couple of grand too much to work for us.

So we then looked at the Bimmer. While *my* ownership experience has been a let down in terms of reliabilty, I would say that like for like, the BMW is a far better drive than the equivalent Audi. And this is probably the case across the range - it certainly seems to be the opinion of most of the motoring press.

Of course it takes a bit of getting used to going to any other car from the security of 4WD, but that won't take long to learn. I'm sure that on the same roundabout, in a front-wheel drive car, you'd have understeered instead.

I think you're probably doing the right thing by keeping the car you know - rather than taking on something realtively new. If you wanted to save money, then I think like Spandex said, you'd be better off with something a lot cheaper.


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## pars_andy (Dec 10, 2009)

Yeah...I don't have any practicality issues other than cost really. I'm definitely keeping the TT for now. 2015 is the crunch time for me financially and that's still a fair bit away. Seeing as the worst of the depreciation is behind me, I'll be better off hanging on until closer to that date before changing.
I'll also be better informed regarding how much cash I need to free up at that time and will buy accordingly. I might even get a 1k banger just to get me through the 6 months without pay. 
I'm glad I've been through this process though. It's really renewed my appreciation of my current car. Even gave it a good clean and wax yesterday.


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## MP (Feb 22, 2008)

pars_andy said:


> Yeah...I don't have any practicality issues other than cost really. I'm definitely keeping the TT for now. 2015 is the crunch time for me financially and that's still a fair bit away. Seeing as the worst of the depreciation is behind me, I'll be better off hanging on until closer to that date before changing.
> I'll also be better informed regarding how much cash I need to free up at that time and will buy accordingly. I might even get a 1k banger just to get me through the 6 months without pay.
> I'm glad I've been through this process though. It's really renewed my appreciation of my current car. Even gave it a good clean and wax yesterday.


Good decision!


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