# Police



## v_double_e (Aug 11, 2010)

Hi guys, do we have any police officers in here?
I was given a non endorsable £60 fine on the weekend for not having my "Registration mark not display correct format" OFFENCE CODE A348 (which i googled and couldnt find). On the ticket its self there are a number of errors for example the TITLE is missing, The vehicle regisration number looks like an M instead on an N, he ticked NO passengers when i had a passenger (also took there details down) and my seating capacity is written down as 5.
Should i request for a court hearing and say that the ticket is unreliable or just cough up for the fine?


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

What's actually wrong with your registration number? Anything?


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## v_double_e (Aug 11, 2010)

brittan said:


> What's actually wrong with your registration number? Anything?


I spaced it incorrectly :roll:


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## maersk (Feb 1, 2004)

All of the 'discrepancies' can be accounted for under slippage.

Are you a victim of no postcode of plate supplier or have you an illegal plate for another reason? eg spacing?

Aha, spacing. Quite commonly picked up now due to ANPR


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

The minor errors made on the ticket are irrelevant to the offence in question and contrary to popular a myth a tick in the wrong box does not in itself render a ticket unenforceable. The above question is the relevant one; is your number plate incorrect? If it is you've committed the offence so man-up and pay the fine (and get the plate changed, of course).


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

Mark Davies said:


> The above question is the relevant one; is your number plate incorrect? If it is you've committed the offence so man-up and pay the fine (and get the plate changed, of course).


Hence the question and you've stolen my punch line. :lol:


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## v_double_e (Aug 11, 2010)

Mark Davies said:


> The minor errors made on the ticket are irrelevant to the offence in question and contrary to popular a myth a tick in the wrong box does not in itself render a ticket unenforceable. The above question is the relevant one; is your number plate incorrect? If it is you've committed the offence so man-up and pay the fine (and get the plate changed, of course).


hmmmmm Ill pay up but ill think about changing the plates


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## Vanguard (Jun 13, 2011)

Another classic case of don't they have anything better to do than nick people for this

Its not like the plate was unreadable, or that if you had been photographed by a camera they couldn't have read the plate

For Gods sake, you maybe just moved one character from the left or the right of the plate, its so petty compared to what real crime is going on in this country on a daily basis. I don't have a private plate myself but I'd defend the right of someone to have a bit of fun with one as long as its still completely readable and characters aren't made to look like other characters

I find most traffic Police not only stupid (would be doing real Police work if they had any intelligence) but condescending in the main as well, and they wonder why the general public don't like them


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## T3RBO (Dec 9, 2003)

v_double_e said:


> hmmmmm Ill pay up but ill think about changing the plates


Be careful because if they catch you again you could lose the right to the plate :wink:



Vanguard said:


> and they wonder why the general public don't like them


By 'general public' you mean those that have been caught out doing something illegal :lol:


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Vanguard said:


> Another classic case of don't they have anything better to do than nick people for this
> 
> Its not like the plate was unreadable, or that if you had been photographed by a camera they couldn't have read the plate
> 
> ...


I've addressed these tired old arguments so many times now I'm not going to go into it all at length, but I will point out that we're the only country in Europe where it's even possible to get your own plates made up and mess about with their appearance, yet somehow people here treat that like it's some sort of inherant human right. It's not - it's just a bit of frivolous bollocks.

It's long past the time we all grew up and got over it. It's just a bloody car registration plate.


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## Groodles (Apr 20, 2011)

Mark Davies said:


> Vanguard said:
> 
> 
> > Another classic case of don't they have anything better to do than nick people for this
> ...


+1


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## stumardy (Oct 25, 2009)

Groodles said:


> Mark Davies said:
> 
> 
> > Vanguard said:
> ...


Yeah bloody chavs changing their plates thinking it looks cool. Looks GAY more like! and everyone else can see how much of an ARSE you are! :lol:


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## STTink (Jun 28, 2011)

Hi Mark.
Just a quick question.

I own a plate, well, it's on a cert until i can afford a new car to put it on.
My question is this.

The registration of the plate is BF57 CAR.
Is it illegal to put an oversized black fixing at the foot of the F? For obvious reasons. 
Thanks in advance.


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## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

STTink said:


> Hi Mark.
> Just a quick question.
> 
> I own a plate, well, it's on a cert until i can afford a new car to put it on.
> ...


Yes it is in the respect that you are attempting to visually alter the appearance of the character.

I got tugged the other day for exactly the same thing as the OP, fortunately I got away with it (this time)  when I was in the police one of the top cops at the station had a mis-spaced numberplate 

Charlie


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## antcole (Apr 4, 2009)

STTink said:


> Hi Mark.
> Just a quick question.
> 
> I own a plate, well, it's on a cert until i can afford a new car to put it on.
> ...


Well its got to be readable by ANPR stuff.... you could try it and go through an airport car park barrier to see but im reckoning its gonna get confused and read it as an E rather than an F.... maybe


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## MXS (May 10, 2010)

Private plates....... It would probably be easier to change your name by deed poll to match your car registration :roll:


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## STTink (Jun 28, 2011)

Bugger.

Might have to be a smaller fixing. :lol: 
I think there's points for both sides of the argument, it's just a shame the DVLA up the price of some of these plates obviously 
knowing what some individuals may do with them. I doubt they hiked the price of my plate up simply because it ended in CAR.


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## antcole (Apr 4, 2009)

DVLA are robbing thieving barstools....

They sell your details to anyone who wants them for a couple of quid and when theres a reasonable plate available.... it sky rockets.... arrrfur daleys the lot of em.


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## STTink (Jun 28, 2011)

antcole said:


> DVLA are robbing thieving barstools....
> 
> They sell your details to anyone who wants them for a couple of quid and when theres a reasonable plate available.... it sky rockets.... arrrfur daleys the lot of em.


Ah well, might have to buy a Fiat 500 and buy LE60 CAR to go on it.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Vanguard said:


> Another classic case of don't they have anything better to do than nick people for this
> 
> Its not like the plate was unreadable, or that if you had been photographed by a camera they couldn't have read the plate
> 
> ...


well vanguard what a dumb responce this is! if the cops rozzers old bill whatever peeps like to call them wern't wasting time with dumb motoring offenses that we know are wrong or arresting yobs on a week end. they would have time to do the work they trained for in their career. as a forum we are lucky to have mark & charlie for a bit of info on legal matters if we cross those bridges. wow gazz being polite & intelligent for once...make this a stickie


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

Simple fix to this, if you cant get a plate that says what you want without stupid bolts, screws spacing etc then dont bother, its illegal, you know it is yet you complain when your caught.....


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## STTink (Jun 28, 2011)

I see where you're coming from with this Danny but I also see DVLA auctioning off plates at extraordinary prices which if they were legally spaced wouldn't really have the same impact. Do these buyers get special dispensation? I doubt it. Maybe they should stop selling monkeys for other people's backs.


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

STTink said:


> I see where you're coming from with this Danny but I also see DVLA auctioning off plates at extraordinary prices which if they were legally spaced wouldn't really have the same impact. Do these buyers get special dispensation? I doubt it. Maybe they should stop selling monkeys for other people's backs.


the DVLA sell legal plates, yes they know what they are doing but its still people buying a load of numbers and letters and making them say what they want, DVLA arnt selling illegal plates/reg marks


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## T3RBO (Dec 9, 2003)

I think the DVLA needs some defending here...

Yes they sell plates that only work when illegally spaced etc for a higher premium, but once you get caught a few times you lose the right to that plate, the DVLA gets it back and they can sell it on again


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## Redscouse (Sep 30, 2008)

Just abide by the law and stop trying to make the plate something its not!

If you get caught, which you have, pay the fine and change the plates. If you dont and you get caught again, then your a fool :roll:

*Steps off Soapbox*

Paul


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## YoungOldUn (Apr 12, 2011)

T3RBO said:


> I think the DVLA needs some defending here...
> 
> Yes they sell plates that only work when illegally spaced etc for a higher premium, but once you get caught a few times you lose the right to that plate, the DVLA gets it back and they can sell it on again


A bit like selling homing pidgeons then :lol:


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## STTink (Jun 28, 2011)

T3RBO said:


> I think the DVLA needs some defending here...
> 
> Yes they sell plates that only work when illegally spaced etc for a higher premium, but once you get caught a few times you lose the right to that plate, the DVLA gets it back and they can sell it on again


If I'm ever in trouble I seriously don't want you to defend me.  :x


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

T3RBO said:


> once you get caught a few times you lose the right to that plate, the DVLA gets it back and they can sell it on again


Making yet more money :?


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## T3RBO (Dec 9, 2003)

Think my sarcasm was lost on a few there :lol:


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## STTink (Jun 28, 2011)

Think i'll sell my plate back to DVLA.
Oh no, I can't.

Or maybe put it on Ebay to lose some money instead. :?


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## phil3012 (Jul 25, 2008)

I've seen this topic come up time and time again on other fourms. The issue isn't just ANPR but the fact the number plate has been made up illegally.

If you get a legitimate plate made up you have to prove your right to display that registration number and a genuine plate is indicated by the BS mark and the supplier details.

When you get a show plate made but there is no proof necessarily needed. You could potentially get any plate made up including cloning one from an identical car. You can imagine what you could try and get away with if you did this...

As well as ANPR a show plate is more likely to not be the genuine registration mark of that vehicle.

By pulling a car with show plates, may just find someone who is yet to commit a crime.

The odd plate does look amuzing with the spacing/letters changed. 99% though just look rubbish...


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## STTink (Jun 28, 2011)

How someone gets away with this I dont know. :roll:

http://www.********.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=219127


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## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

One of the main reasons for the ANPR check stations is not to "pick on motorists" but actually it is a clever way to catch "scrotes" as those who do not have insurance, MOT's, tax etc are statistically much more likely to be criminals (potentially with outstanding warrants etc)  it is basically a criminal filtering system which is relatively cheap yet effective 

On the flipside it does inevitably pick up numberplate offences. When I got tugged the officer even winked at me and said "it's not exactly the biggest offence" to which I could only sigh with relief and thank my lucky stars he wasn't going to fine me 

Charlie


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

ANPR won't have a problem recognising letters pushed over to the other side, or even extra spacing as in the above link.

ANPR won't check to see if you have the garage name and BS number on it.

ANPR will have problems if the font is sufficiently different from the standard.

ANPR will have problems if extra bolts are used to modify what the characters appear as.


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## v_double_e (Aug 11, 2010)

I have decided to pay the fine.... only because the dog ate half my ticket! [smiley=policeman.gif] [smiley=rifle.gif]


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## Gyorgy (Jan 13, 2011)

I don't like dumb technology. I don't like ANPR which can't read a clear font. I don't like when it's set up to fine people for overstaying an empty carpark by half an hour, or going through a bus lane as opposed to a width restriction at 3am in the morning.

I don't like traffic lights which sit for minutes on red at otherwise empty junctions.

Technology should make our lives easier - not lead to another layer of regulations resulting from it being too stupid to replicate the commonsense of the human being it attempts to replace. And it is sad if the police have to spend time in effect servicing the needs of automatic machinery.

Rant over.


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## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

v_double_e said:


> I have decided to pay the fine.... only because the dog ate half my ticket! [smiley=policeman.gif] [smiley=rifle.gif]


So you were actually considering not paying the fine?? that would not have ended well for you I suspect.

Charlie


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Gyorgy said:


> Technology should make our lives easier - not lead to another layer of regulations resulting from it being too stupid to replicate the commonsense of the human being it attempts to replace. And it is sad if the police have to spend time in effect servicing the needs of automatic machinery.
> 
> Rant over.


ANPR does make life easier. It makes it possible for a single camera to compare hundreds of numberplates to information held on a number of databases in the time it would take a person to do just a handful. It is therefore a very effective tool at fighting crime and is most extensively used for detecting the most serious of crimes. If you don't know how it is used and what for (and I assure you if you're not a police officer then you don't) then perhaps you should reserve judgement.

And again, what we seem to be ranting on about here is all rather trivial. Everywhere else in Europe and throughout most of the rest of the world you buy your car registration plate directly from the government. You get no choice about what you get, you can't change it, you can't transfer it and it sticks with the vehicle all its life. You just have a bog-standard plate that means nothing and still pay for the privilage. You don't hear all those people whining and moaning about it; not even the French and they're the bolshiest nation on earth! No, quite typically we're given all kinds of concessions, freedoms and privilages which we instantly assume to be a right and then start taking the piss and demanding even more.

Instead of this pathetic moaning about civil liberites we should consider ourselves fortunate that we're even allowed to use obsolete and out of date numbers at all, that we're allowed to transfer them from vehicle to vehicle at all, that we can buy a number of our choice rather than just be stuck with what we're given. Nobody else can! All that's asked from us is that when are childish desires are indulged that we simple display our official vehicle identifier mark in the proper fashion. That's all. Honestly, this is a nation that won two world wars yet we're incessantly blubbing about bollocks like this. For fuck's sake it's just a car registration plate - man-up and get over it!

My rant over.


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Mark Davies said:


> For christ sake this is a nation that won two world wars yet we're incessantly blubbing about bollocks like this. For fuck's sake it's just a car registration plate - man-up and get over it!


You upset Mark? :wink: :roll:


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## skitty (Apr 1, 2011)

Well said mark, I agree, just have a normal number plate, what difference does it all make?? Big fuss over nothing, buy one which is right for you or just don't bother, having a "extra" bolt put in to make the letter look different to what it is supposed to be is dam right fucking stupid and you get what you deserve IMO .


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

That's Mk 2 owners for you :wink:


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## leenx (Feb 8, 2010)

Gyorgy said:


> I don't like dumb technology. I don't like ANPR which can't read a clear font. I don't like when it's set up to fine people for overstaying an empty carpark by half an hour, or going through a bus lane as opposed to a width restriction at 3am in the morning.
> 
> I don't like traffic lights which sit for minutes on red at otherwise empty junctions.
> 
> ...


Completely agree +1


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## YoungOldUn (Apr 12, 2011)

Mark Davies said:


> For fuck's sake it's just a car registration plate - man-up and get over it!


Totally agree, anything which gets the uninsured drivers off the road has to be good in my eyes.


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## maersk (Feb 1, 2004)

One of your Paveways would be good.......................................


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## TT51 (Feb 28, 2009)

Believe me ANPR is used in a lot more applications than just on traffic cars, petrol stations etc. I used to install it a couple of years ago :wink:


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

YoungOldUn said:


> Mark Davies said:
> 
> 
> > For fuck's sake it's just a car registration plate - man-up and get over it!
> ...


+1


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## ViperOneZero (Sep 4, 2008)

my local tescos use ANPR to enforce parking...


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## EviL Ras (May 29, 2011)

Wow! this topic is getting heated!

In America, my mate had to change their plate when they moved state. they asked for the one they wanted and got it. As long as no-one else in that state has it, the number/name is yours.

I dont bother with spacing. just bought the reg that matched my name! much easier! EV11 RAS!


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## neil97rs (Jul 7, 2011)

Vanguard said:


> Another classic case of don't they have anything better to do than nick people for this
> 
> Its not like the plate was unreadable, or that if you had been photographed by a camera they couldn't have read the plate
> 
> ...


I know im new here but yes im a cop however im not a traffic officer.

Its not so much about nothing better to do its more along the lines of preventing and detecting crime. There are now hundreds of ANPR cameras set up all over the country. A numberplate that has incorrect spacing cannot be read by them.

If your car gets stolen its added to a list if it triggers a camera it sets of a marker and alerts nearby officers. Hopefully in an effort to recover your car before it gets broken into lots of little pieces or put in a container bound for some far east country.
However in your case that wouldnt work and then you could complain about how poor the poilce are and the fact they never found your stolen car [smiley=bigcry.gif] .
Its simple really though if its incorrect pay the fine and change it if you dont change it expect to get more fines. But dont moan about the fact you got caught.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

To be honest, I wouldn't bother trying to justify it... Even if the cameras have no problem reading the plate, people know when they buy the thing that they're going to break the law by mis-spacing it so only a simpleton would then complain when they got caught.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Yes, but this forum, along with our road network is bursting with simpletons...


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## Redscouse (Sep 30, 2008)

Dash said:


> Yes, but this forum, along with our road network is bursting with simpletons...


 :lol: :lol:

Your not wrong there 

Paul


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2011)

Redscouse said:


> Dash said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, but this forum, along with our road network is bursting with simpletons...
> ...


*You're

:lol:


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## Redscouse (Sep 30, 2008)

:lol: :lol:

Feck off Luke you.... you....

Simpleton?

Paul


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## v_double_e (Aug 11, 2010)

neil97rs said:


> Vanguard said:
> 
> 
> > Another classic case of don't they have anything better to do than nick people for this
> ...


This is incorrect i have been to the airport and plenty of state of the art car parks living in london and ANPR cameras can read my plates fine!


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Pretty please stop moaning you are hurting my ears :lol: :lol:


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

v_double_e said:


> This is incorrect i have been to the airport and plenty of state of the art car parks living in london and ANPR cameras can read my plates fine!


Another common post that simply displays ignorance - the old "If one ANPR camera can read my number plate then they all can". How do you know that? Ever set up an ANPR camera and tried to use one? No? So you're just making that up then, aren't you?

The facts are that ANPR can be very reliable in certain circumstances - for instance where the camera can be permanently placed at number plate level, almost directly infront of the car and where the car is going to be within a couple of yards and reliably positioned. Recognise those conditions? Yes, exactly what you get with the cameras at the entrance to a car park!

However, set the camera higher (such as on a lampost or motorway gantry where it can't be tampered with by vandals) and they don't work as well. Make it a temporary installation, such as a van or police car parked at the side of the road and it takes an age to get working and even then it is far from faultless.

It would be nice if people just realised they don't know everything and every now and then before commenting on a particular subject just listened to the people who do know something about it. I know about ANPR and I can assure you it *is* important that your number plates are correctly displayed for the many ANPR systems around the country to be effective. I can assure you it's a very effective tool for catching serious criminals. And I can assure you it's not being used just to persecute 'innocent' motorists and the number plate regulations are not being enforced just to piss you off.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

mark in responce to your last post and it isnt me being criticle i must add. however if the mobile anpr camera technology doesnt work well enough for current use why is it used.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

gazzer1964 said:


> mark in responce to your last post and it isnt me being criticle i must add. however if the mobile anpr camera technology doesnt work well enough for current use why is it used.


Simple maths. It may still misread maybe 1 in 10 number plates, but if it can check 100 registrations in the time it would take me to check 1 (and it can) then even discounting the 10 false readings it's still getting through 90 times as many cars as I can.

So, it may not be perfect but it's still a very powerful tool. But of course, its imperfections are its weakness. If you are a criminal you can exploit this weakness by simply mis-displaying your number plate, just like everybody else who thinks it's their human right to dick about with their car's official identifier. Then you can go about your criminal business not being the least bit worried about ANPR, as your car effectively becomes invisible. Therefore, the simple, common practice of pissing about with registration plates for nothing but vanity is effectively aiding and abetting serious organised crime and terrorism. It provides a cover for these people to move around undetected. That is why it is important to make sure all number plates are legal and really there ought to be zero tolerance of illegal plates.

Frankly the arguments for it are compelling, so given that I'd suggest that British motorists are let off very lightly when it's quite possible to drive around with an illegal plate for months or even years before you get pulled.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

We really need a like button


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## v_double_e (Aug 11, 2010)

Mark Davies said:


> gazzer1964 said:
> 
> 
> > mark in responce to your last post and it isnt me being criticle i must add. however if the mobile anpr camera technology doesnt work well enough for current use why is it used.
> ...


My number plates read fine on the traffic officers ANPR he used his "EYES" to see what was wrong an even more powerfull tool they should use more often.


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## burns (Jun 2, 2009)

Thing is, discounting the ANPR argument, think of what would happen if (God forbid) you were the victim of a hit and run where the registration plates had been altered due to spacing/bolts, causing the VRM to show something slightly different?

Consider the example of STTink's - BF57 CAR. (Sorry to single you out - it's just convenient for this because we've all seen your comment above). He wants to add a bolt so that it would look like BE57 CAR. In the heat of the moment (aftermath of a collision) someone gets a fleeting glance at the perpetrator of the hit and run, and reports the vehicle as having a number plate which reads "something like Best Car" or a partial VRM ("it started with BE and had CAR at the end," etc, etc). So the police go hunting for that vehicle, which would appear to have an E, rather than an F, in the VRM, so they are looking for the wrong one.

Nasty hit-and-run man potentially goes free, all for a misplaced bolt.

If it doesn't work legally, don't use it. Simples.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

v_double_e said:


> My number plates read fine on the traffic officers ANPR he used his "EYES" to see what was wrong an even more powerfull tool they should use more often.


You are coming across as a bit actually A LOT of a dick plain SAD

Don't even bother answering Mark think you are wasting your breath on this _"gentleman"_


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## STTink (Jun 28, 2011)

burns said:


> Thing is, discounting the ANPR argument, think of what would happen if (God forbid) you were the victim of a hit and run where the registration plates had been altered due to spacing/bolts, causing the VRM to show something slightly different?
> 
> Consider the example of STTink's - BF57 CAR. (Sorry to single you out - it's just convenient for this because we've all seen your comment above). He wants to add a bolt so that it would look like BE57 CAR. In the heat of the moment (aftermath of a collision) someone gets a fleeting glance at the perpetrator of the hit and run, and reports the vehicle as having a number plate which reads "something like Best Car" or a partial VRM ("it started with BE and had CAR at the end," etc, etc). So the police go hunting for that vehicle, which would appear to have an E, rather than an F, in the VRM, so they are looking for the wrong one.
> 
> ...


What's this? A witch hunt? Why me? Kiddin' :wink: :lol:

Good point. Now look at it this way.
I live about 8 miles from here and oddly, i drove past the where the incident happened the other day.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13839312

Now. Let's say for arguments sake it was my car that hit this young lad and killed him. Someone spots my car and catches the plate as saying BE57 CAR on a silver Porsche.
Are you telling me that it would be harder work to track me down with this plate-










-as opposed to some random number? For arguments sake KN57 NMF.
Even Frank Drebin from Police Squad would have been knocking on my door within a few hours.
I see both sides of the argument. I see the good ANPR does, just watching Traffic Cops on BBC1 has shown what a useful tool it is to law enforcement. It would be less of a waste if when they caught someone some punishment with teeth was dished out. But that's another point, so i'll try not to distract from this one.
In my case, i wasn't wanting to stick a roll of black electrical tape on the plate, I wasn't wanting to space all the letters as I wanted, i just wanted to add a legal black fixing which has a 12mm head on a little strategically.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Mark Davies said:


> gazzer1964 said:
> 
> 
> > mark in responce to your last post and it isnt me being criticle i must add. however if the mobile anpr camera technology doesnt work well enough for current use why is it used.
> ...


point made and understood.......lets get some more in that case on every major road high street and car park.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Although I'd be happy if they resulted in an instant ban, I quite like illegal plates. Like many modifications, they allow me to make sweeping judgements about the owner of the car, without ever having to meet them. For example:

Illegal 'vanity' plate = Complete twat.
Dangerously tinted windows = Complete twat.
Fog lights on = Complete twat.

They might as well have it painted down the side of their car.


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## YoungOldUn (Apr 12, 2011)

Spandex said:


> Although I'd be happy if they resulted in an instant ban, I quite like illegal plates. Like many modifications, they allow me to make sweeping judgements about the owner of the car, without ever having to meet them. For example:
> 
> Illegal 'vanity' plate = Complete twat.
> Dangerously tinted windows = Complete twat.
> ...


 :lol: :lol:


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

v_double_e said:


> My number plates read fine on the traffic officers ANPR he used his "EYES" to see what was wrong an even more powerfull tool they should use more often.


I will answer it though.

Of course an officer's eyes are a better tool at recognising number plates, even if butchered. However (partly as a result of the incessant complaining of the 'innocent British motorist' who thinks we should have better things to do) there are hardly any dedicated traffic officers left, and therefore very few pairs of eyes out there. I can tell you that at any given time there are probably five times as many ANPR cameras in operation in Manchester than there are traffic officers on duty. Given that each camera can check through and record details of hundreds more cars than a single officer and the comparison and suggestion that what we ought to be doing is using our eyes instead is just bloody ridiculous. In fact, put every police officer on duty on dedicated patrols just checking number plates and we still wouldn't get close. That's how powerful and important it is.


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## burns (Jun 2, 2009)

STTink said:


> burns said:
> 
> 
> > Thing is, discounting the ANPR argument, think of what would happen if (God forbid) you were the victim of a hit and run where the registration plates had been altered due to spacing/bolts, causing the VRM to show something slightly different?
> ...


Your point is that it's easy to see that it's just a fixing and doesn't alter the appearance of the VRM. If that's the case, why put the bolt there in the first place? Your intention in putting the bolt there is to create the impression that it says "Best Car". If the bolt doesn't do what you wanted, why have it there?

Yes, it's quite obvious in that front-on, standing-still picture you have posted. Now let's add some real-life conditions. The collision occurs not at a stand-still, but with movement involved. The perpetrator leaves the scene, hoping to evade detection. The car is therefore moving, potentially erratically. Your witness is unlikely to be standing so that they have a decent head-on view of the VRM, so they get a fleeting glance from a funny angle. Add to that some weather conditions: dark, poor lighting, or overcast and rainy, and you have a recipe for disaster.

In short, your perfect head-on shot of the number plate becomes something that's seen fleetingly, at an angle, after the shock of an incident, in weather conditions which may obscure it somewhat, as may other traffic, buildings, road features, etc, etc.

So yes, whilst it's at a stand-still, from that distance, it looks obvious that it's a bolt. But in real-life conditions it *might* not. And there's the rub. No-one is saying that it's not obvious that it's an F rather than an E, but that when it actually counts, it *might* not work and it might cause confusion.

And to add in the "is it a Porsche, is it a TT" scenario, well not all witnesses know their cars, nor do all of them have time to be able to see anything other than whether it was dark or light coloured. So adding a potential wrong make and model might not make a difference.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

for me........i would say double the amount of police on the front line! triple the value of the fines given out for drink driving reckless driving and all associated offenses. the twats on the Saturday night pie pint and a punch up brigade......first offense £300 second offense £500 plus a months ban from town and so on. when i worked for a swiss company it was refreshing to see a town center inhabited by normal folks not afraid to go out and no drunken jobs. back to planet GB and all of it's bleeding heart liberals.


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