# Water Pump Replacement Question



## John Stratton (Jun 20, 2010)

I had my Timing Belt kit , tensioner and water pump included replaced 3 years ago , the car has done 5K since this was done.

I know the water pump was definately changed but has now sprung a leak and it is getting worse as each day goes by . It started loosing about a thimble full overnight but has now progressed to about half a tea cup full .

So time to do it again !! I am not sure if the replacement pump fitted was OEM but my question is am I best to pay the extra for a Genuine AUDI kit complete with pump and tensioner . I have been quoted £190 for all the parts at my local AUDI dealer .

Your thoughts please will be appreciated

Many Thanks...........John


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi John, I would use OEM pump etc, but the Hydraulic tensioner is not included in the Audi cambelt kit, which you should replace as well if doing it all & not just the pump.
Hoggy.


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## John Stratton (Jun 20, 2010)

Thanks Hoggy . The Tensioner was in the £190 price as I did request this part as extra to the kit .

I think it will have to be OEM parts , probably about £60 more expensive but as the chap at my dealer say's when I say ' HOW MUCH ' he replies the parts are not made by Micky Mouse !!!! Probably a good quote in some instances !! :lol: :lol:


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## jbell (May 15, 2006)

Make sure the new pump has a metal impellor not plastic


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

jbell said:


> Make sure the new pump has a metal impellor not plastic


Seconded so you will have to go non OEM


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

YELLOW_TT said:


> jbell said:
> 
> 
> > Make sure the new pump has a metal impellor not plastic
> ...


But still VAG range.
Steve


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Just be careful going for the metal impeller pumps, they were an aftermarket pump that used to do a very good job at 1st. I think the supplier changed something in the manufacture of them and the quality of them was drastically reduced! They ended up that bad we had a few that failed (basically started to leak) and now we have gone back to using the plastic impeller pumps.

They have changed the plastic they use in these pumps to be a lot harder wearing and are not something that we experience issues with any more.

As long as you stick to the rule of getting the pump replaced every time the timing belt is done i can not see you having an issue again.

if i was a betting man i would bet that the pump you had replaced a few years ago had a metal impeller?


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi John, The Audi water pump is not metal, but improved plastic, so if you buy OEM it will be plastic, but it shouldn't have the problems the original did. The tensioner in the kit is not the Hydraulic Tensioner, it is a seperate item. 
Hoggy.


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## AwesomeJohn (Apr 25, 2006)

Cheers Hoggy


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## Jay-225 (Mar 7, 2012)

I am pretty sure the price you have been quoted is without the hydraulic tensioner as that alone cost £115 from Audi ! the cambelt kit which is just a belt and bearing is about £120 and the water pump is around £75 if not done on exchange...

You will be a lot better off going to euro car parts and buying the contitech kit with forum discount which will be a hell of a lot cheaper than Audi and you will get all the needed bits...

On the water pump, i thought the latest oem pump were meant to be the best :?


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## poor1 (Dec 28, 2011)

Accepted practice now is an OEM water pump with plastic impeller (NOT) metal.

If the hydraulic tensioner was changed three years ago there should be no need to replace it. but if the tensioner pulley was not replaced it would be advisable to replace that.


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## John Stratton (Jun 20, 2010)

Thanks for your help and advise everybody , really appreciated .

There still seems to be alot of debate around the type of pump to use , metal or plastic impellor .

I will check with AUDI if the Hydraulic Tensioner was included, I thought I made it clear that I wanted the extra Hydraulic Tensioner when speaking to them but would not be surprised if they have not understood my request after reading the reply about the cost for that part alone.

Once the old one is out I will post metal or plastic , OEM or not but it has lasted 3 years and 5K miles so not good.

Thanks Everyone.........John


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## Jay-225 (Mar 7, 2012)

If you need a part number for the hydraulic tensioner when calling Audi it is : *06B 109 477* as said above will be in the region of £115 [smiley=bigcry.gif]

The Contitech stuff is really good, some say its the same as audi use and the complete kit ( all 3 bits ) can be had from euro car parts for £110 for a BAM or £100 if APX... plenty on here have used this option and been very happy 

Just get the waterpump from Audi ..


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

John Stratton said:


> Thanks Hoggy . The Tensioner was in the £190 price as I did request this part as extra to the kit .
> 
> I think it will have to be OEM parts , probably about £60 more expensive but as the chap at my dealer say's when I say ' HOW MUCH ' he replies the parts are not made by Micky Mouse !!!! Probably a good quote in some instances !! :lol: :lol:


if they are not made by micky mouse then why give you a walt disney price !!


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## weebeasttie (Jan 3, 2011)

roddy said:


> John Stratton said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Hoggy . The Tensioner was in the £190 price as I did request this part as extra to the kit .
> ...


Nice one Roddy, like it :lol:


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

There may be some confusion over the "tensioner" as there is a tensioning roller and an oil filled damping tensioner (with idler roller) both of which form the "tensioner" assembly but only the tensioning roller and idler roller are specified by Audi as service items along with the cam belt. The oil filled damper can wear out though, so it's worth replacing if it's not been changed.

I agree with the comments about the water pump. The OEM ones from Audi now are a much better plastic composite which withstands a higher temperature (~ 200° C) and is not known to crack like the original one. The new one is so much better it has led people to question if it's actually anodised aluminium - it's not it's PPS or PolyPhenelineSulfide - a semi-crystalline polymer reinforced composite. It is very hard and rigid and able to take a precise mould impression which is why it looks like a machined part. If you flick it with your finger it rings like it's metal.

Early Audi water pump impellers were made of a softer less stable and less precise plastic called Durethan which at 100° C was operating at near its design temperature limit and became unstable with cracking and coming loose on the shaft which is where the bad reputation came from. This is no longer being used.

Going for a metal impeller now simply runs the risk that the bearings and shaft seals are not as good as OEM Audi. In fact, because the Audi seals and bearings are so good it's not so critical that you change the pump when doing a cam belt any more (providing it's one of the later pumps). If a pump does ever start leaking you'll get early warning of coolant loss - it's not like a roller bearing seizing and causing belt failure, so not such a critical issue for changing like it used to be.


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## John Stratton (Jun 20, 2010)

Thanks all again for your comments and help .

AUDI have now confirmed they had not quoted me for the 06B109477 Damper , they have now quoted £110 for this part .

So all the parts using Genuine AUDI come to roughly £300 .

So I need to make a decision :

1. Just replace the Water Pump with a Genuine AUDI unit , £86 (Car covered 4500K since Belt , Damper , Rollers and pump replaced 3 years ago)

2. Genuine AUDI Water Pump plus Eurocarparts for the Belt Kit including the Damper , circa £185

3. Replace all with Genuine AUDI , £300

Thanks............John


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi John, Decisions, decisions. I would replace the lot with OEM, but let who ever does the job supply the lot.
Who is doing the job ?
Hoggy.


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## John Stratton (Jun 20, 2010)

It will more than likely be a local Indie in Peterborough who I know very well and can trust his work as he is very particular , he has already said to me that he prefers to replace all parts for his own piece of mind . We all know the importance of correct fitment and consequences if the work is not completed correctly. I am mechanically minded and do most other maintenance work myself but do not have enough confidence to do the Cambelt change.

I am not sure what AUDI charge for the complete job but that could still be an option depending on the overall cost difference. I would expect they would give some form of guarantee.

I am leaning towards all OEM parts but like most of us it bugs us the prices they charge.

Decisions , Decisions !!!


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi John, £439 + pump & Hyd tensioner with Audi  , so £500 +..
£420 with TT shop for comparison, inc water pump & hydraulic tensioner.
My thoughts are, if you supply the parts & some thing goes wrong because of poor workmanship, they blame the parts & not their workmanship.
Hoggy.


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## John Stratton (Jun 20, 2010)

Thanks Hoggy .

Would you know if the TT shop use genuine OEM parts as would say thats a reasonable price if they do ?

Thanks....John


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi John, Just checked & they use a Metal water pump & by the write up, they don't know about the improved Audi pump, but of course may be their website is not updated. If you are close give them a ring & ask will they use OEM parts.
I suppose they must have confidence in the parts they use as they must do a few every week.
http://www.thettshop.com/servicing_mk1_4wd.asp
Hoggy.


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## John Stratton (Jun 20, 2010)

Thanks Hoggy .

I have just had a look at the write up and it states that they only use genuine AUDI parts but as you say with a Metal Pump Impellor so this part is probably not OEM unless they do offer a metal option . They also say that they check the Damper Tensioner and recommend replacement if necessary . They seem to be reasonably priced at £420 for the complete job when you consider genuine parts would be £300 to purchase plus the labour charge which I would expect to be greater than £120.

Another option to consider .

PS. Just been outside to check my coolant catcher after being home for 3 hours and all dry but will expect to find half a cup full in the morning as the leak area contracts .

Thanks..........John


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## John Stratton (Jun 20, 2010)

Well in the end I decided after some thorough reading of the process to give it a go myself and completed the job yesterday, I must say I never thought I would do a Timing Belt Change Complete with Water Pump. I decided not to change the Tensioners as they had only covered 4.5k Miles / 3 Years old .

The main Document used for the process was from the ECS website along with the Bentley Manual . I must have read it 50 times !! Turning that key after completion was a little nerve racking although I had turned by hand beforehand to be as confident as possible of the correct timing set .

The reason for doing the Timing Belt was that the water pump fitted only 3 years ago and 4.5K miles sprung a leak .
The failed pump was of a plastic impellor type , it stated made in Germany on the face of the gear wheel but the Aluminium casting stated made in Mexico . It did have the AUDI rings on it but I cannot be sure if it was a Genuine Audi part . It did have some play between the casting and shaft bearing so believe this was the leak area . The new one was also tighter to turn .

The replacement purchased from Audi stated exactly the same markings but made in Hungary but no mention of Mexico on the Aluminium casting. It does have the improved plastic impellor . When purchased I was advised it has a 2 year warranty , pretty poor really !!

Finally thanks for all your help on this post .

John


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Well done for doing it yourself


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## John Stratton (Jun 20, 2010)

Thanks John H .

It really does give a great deal of satisfaction but I have to say that without picking up the required help and information from this forum I would not of had the confidence to give it a go . I think the hardest part was getting the top Timing cover back on !! I think removing the strut bar may have made that task easier.

If anyone is thinking of having a go I would say go for it but read the instructions carefully. ECS Tuning , This Forum How Too and ideally the Bentley Manual.

Thanks.............John


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## poor1 (Dec 28, 2011)

It would be interesting to know which method you used to get the new belt on. With it being so tight, that is the most difficult part of the operation.

Getting the top cover on is awkward, but when the engine is in exactly the right position when being lifted, it slots right in.

I expect you, of course, are an expect as far as water pumps are concerned.


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## warrenstuart (Mar 3, 2010)

John i'm impressed with you mate, top man [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I've downloaded a couple of "how to do it" guides over the time from on here and other VAG forums thinking i may have a go at this when the time arrives (daughters is due next in about 18 months) so i'm keen to know how long it took you and roughly how much do you think you saved in labour charges? (although the satisfaction of doing it yourself is as good as saving the money)
Were there any special tools specific to the job you needed to get before hand?

The last cambelt i did was in 1987 on my Golf! 

Warren.


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## John Stratton (Jun 20, 2010)

The method used to get the Belt on correctly is as follows :

Place Belt on Cam and water pump on the RHS and through Tensioner and Roller on LHS , Compress the Hydraulic Tensioner fully with a 5mm 0.80 pitch threaded bar , nut and washer. Then turn slightly back from TDC , say one tooth of the crank gear. The Belt was then just able to grip on a couple of crank gear teeth. Then turn clockwise whilst holding the belt on the teeth. Make sure the Cam position has not changed from required timing mark on the Gear and Timing case . Mine stayed put but I guess it could move . This then tightens the belt on the RHS as required . You should have 68 belt teeth between the cam and dimple on the crank gear . Tooth one being the one to the right of the cam case timing mark . I felt the old belt for tension before removing to get a feel how tight it should be . Hope this makes sense .

The water pump I fitted was £73 from AUDI and a Gates belt purchased locally £19.

If I had replaced all components with Genuine AUDI including the Hydraulic Tensioner it would have cost £300.
If I had replaced all components , genuine water pump and Contitech Belt kit from Eurocarparts it would have been approximately £185 .

So I guess a saving of £300 plus by DIY. And off course the satisfaction factor .

Time wise I am not the quickest by any means but thorough , I did it over two days and took 10 hours , If I did another one I would say it could be done in half that time .Coolant wise I did buy another bottle just in case but managed to catch nearly every drop . I am not tight   
No special tools required apart from the 5mm threaded bar to compress the Tensioner .
Give it a go Warren , I just made sure I turned over by hand many times before turning that key


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Good job. The method I used to get the belt on was to loosen the tensioner pulley.


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