# Inside the dashpod...



## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

Just thought you'd like to see inside the dashpod... this is off WesTTy's car - he has kindly lent it to me to see if I can fix....

This a 2001 model, and differes substantially from the A3 one I previous dismantled.. in fact it is a lot lot simpler although there are some obvious similarities (for comparative pics see here)

note the two 'balanced-coil' motors for the fuel and temp gauges at the top, left of these is the sounder for the various alarms, and then the two items with labels on are the stepper motors for the rev counter and speedo. To the right of the grey connector are the two microcontrollers which are more sophisticated ones than in the 1999 A3 dash, hence the significant reduction in components (i suspect). The two big many-legged chips at the bottom on each side are the drivers for the time/date and odometer displays...while the one to the top left is the immobilizer control chip


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

so which bit is broken? :lol:

seriously thanks for the pic and insight the rebels need your input to help fight the dark side of the force that is the Audi empire!

Look forward to your update if you can find a remedy!


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

well something that has already come out of the investigation...

look here and tell me what you see


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

some more pics.....

WesTTy, you might want to look away at this point.... 

Front of pod with dials removed...










close up of stepper motor for speedo/rev and dual-coil guage for fuel/temp










which just proves theres niothing that can't be replaced with some ingenuity and a supplier.... (ok, we haven't got the latter...yet)


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

"And the next step is a completely reconfigurable instrument that the driver can adapt to his own personal taste"

Thats a lot like the unit AmD are producing...in a smaller scale, a configurable monitoring display.


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

Italian electrics! ..... no wonder the dashpods fail!


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

Chip_iTT said:


> well something that has already come out of the investigation...
> 
> look here and tell me what you see


What *looks* to be configured display on the DIS?


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## NormStrm (Sep 6, 2003)

Chip_iTT said:


> well something that has already come out of the investigation...
> 
> look here and tell me what you see


http://www.magnetimarelli.com/news/pnews7.htm



> Magneti Marelli instrument cluster for Audi TT (November 1999)
> 
> At the end of the development activity, launched in 1996 and successfully completed in 1998, Magneti Marelli started, a few months ago, the production of the instrument cluster for the TT Audi model, one of the key vehicles of the German manufacturer of which Magneti Marelli is sole supplier.
> 
> ...


Pity you can't just download the schematic :wink:

Excellent progress and you've only had it 24 hr's [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Norman


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## westty (Jan 3, 2004)

keep up the good work Chip_iTT. Scary


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

Well I have emailed Magnetti to see if they would be willing to help, such as source parts I can't identify a suppliers for.

If anyone has access to a supply of AMP connectors, part #964824 or the matching cable connector.... would be helpful...


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## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

Chip_iTT said:


> Well I have emailed Magnetti to see if they would be willing to help, such as source parts I can't identify a suppliers for.
> 
> If anyone has access to a supply of AMP connectors, part #964824 or the matching cable connector.... would be helpful...


Hi Irving,

Is that an old AMP part number? I just plugged ('scuse the pun!) it into the AMP website and came up with nothing - not even an obsolete reference :?


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

was that the tyco site u tried?

no, its the part # of the connector on the dashpod... want to make up an umbilical to allow me to plug the pod into the car and probe it.

Also want to make up a box to connect the pod to my bench power supply with some switches and stuff to duplicate some aspects of the car... like ignition switch (line 30 to line 15), the various switch inputs (door switches, brake pad warning link, etc.) and sense inputs (fuel sender, temp sensor, light dimmer - using variable resistors, etc.)

For the record:

I have part #s, data sheets and suppliers for the following items:
- voltage regulator
- solidstate relay
- CAN controllers (2 different ones on the board)
- LCD drivers
- 16bit microcontrollers (2 different ones on the board)
- other misc chips

I haven't got source or data sheets for (and prob never will):
- Megamos imobilizer chip 
- a MagnetiMarelli chip, probably a proprietary logic array
- DIS display driver chip (unlabelled)

I have worked out circuitry for:
- power supply/voltage regulation
- lamp dimming
- most of the straight forward indicators
- CAN interface

I haven't started on looking at software yet, hope to determine if the micros are FLASH programmed and can be read by a programmer in-situ (and if so, where I can get one at no cost!)

Any and all help appreciated...


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## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

Yep it was the Tyco site - but I also did a google and came up with nothing.

I'll have a chat with my old colleagues (PCB manufacturers) and see if they can find them.


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## Jo Sharp (May 7, 2004)

You can usually find AMP connectors at either Farnell or RSonline

www.farnell.com

or

http://rswww.com


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## LeTTs Roll (Jun 22, 2004)

A flurry of posts have links to the UK TT Forum with much anticipation on his findings... fathom the secrets of the dashpod, O intrepid silicon pioneer, and fame and fortune shall be yours!!


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## aidb (Mar 19, 2003)

Excellent work Irving. 

I wonder how Audi UK are going to re-act if you solve the dashpod problem that doesn't exist? :wink:


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

Just a little update...

First a pic of WesTTy's pod plugged into my bench test jig...so much easier when you have the right (well nearly) tools....










I have a pretty good idea now of how the pod power arrangements work, and they are complicated...not going to say too much here but suffice to say there are at least three voltage regulators and some complex circuitry to maintain 13.2volts to some elements of the pod even when the battery goes down to 10v or so... plus at least 4 independent but related lamp dimming circuits to cope with the 36 odd LEDs on the panel, plus all the external lights...

Haven't quite solved WesTTy's prob yet, but feel I'm getting close...


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

Excellent work Irving, 
you mentioned needing to find a supplier of new motors the other day was that an area you thought could have been the cause?


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

looking good Irving!

Scarey  , but good


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Is that Davros' control board you're using for the test rig Irving?


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

lol...it is rather reminiscent of a BBC special-effect circa 1970... this is what the product of an advanced civilisation might look like... from the mind of someone who probably saw the control room at Sellafield in a documentary once...  but it does the job!


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## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

Chip_iTT said:


> lthe control room at Sellafield in a documentary once...  but it does the job!


Dont you mean Chernobal :lol:


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## pas_55 (May 9, 2002)

:wink: More like Springfield :wink:


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## westty (Jan 3, 2004)

Keep up the good work Irvine, i see you've some Schematics on the bench, are Magnetti being helpful?


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

westty said:


> Keep up the good work Irvine, i see you've some Schematics on the bench, are Magnetti being helpful?


Nope not heard nothing from them 

I just managed to download data on a good many of the chips... thats one of the voltage regulator devices...


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

Wak said:


> Excellent work Irving,
> you mentioned needing to find a supplier of new motors the other day was that an area you thought could have been the cause?


not of WesTTy's problem, no. But I know of 2 other pods where the fuel and temp gauges have failed... although looking at the motor I'd be surprised if they actually did fail - there's nothing to go wrong as such - 2 coils of wire, a magnet and a spring. Each motor plugs into the board via a 3pin connector and I suspect that condensation can cause a film on the connector pins that in time causes a high contact resistance and unbalances the circuit...

WesTTy's problem is with the lamp driver circuitry not powering up any of the dimmed lamps (all the non-dimmed ones are fine). Since this affects all dimmed lamps on and off the board and they are driven independently I am working my way back to find the common cause... but as his needles didn't move either this suggests a power supply problem... but all his voltage regulators are working OK as far as I can tell.... so bit of a puzzle....


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

> .... so bit of a puzzle....


I find it easiest to start with the corners, then the edges.....

Sorry 

coat time....


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## westty (Jan 3, 2004)

Chip_iTT said:


> Wak said:
> 
> 
> > WesTTy's problem is with the lamp driver circuitry not powering up any of the dimmed lamps (all the non-dimmed ones are fine). Since this affects all dimmed lamps on and off the board and they are driven independently I am working my way back to find the common cause... but as his needles didn't move either this suggests a power supply problem... but all his voltage regulators are working OK as far as I can tell.... so bit of a puzzle....


Reading this reminded me of a thread a bit back where Joegods pod had the same symptoms, and it turned out to be a poorly seated fuse ,now i swear i tried and retried the fuses with no luck ,it could'nt be a dodgy fuseboard Irvine could it? I'll have to check it out!
My pod also had no DIS display though it did light up :?


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

Did you ever work at Bletchley Park in a previous existence Chip?


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## Jo Sharp (May 7, 2004)

If the voltage regs are OK, could it be faulty decoupling capacitors on the regulator output rails?


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Jo Sharp said:


> _If the_ voltage regs are OK, it might be the faulty decoupling capacitors on the regulator output rails, _Captain? It's going to take me a while to take down the warp core though..._


And there's me thinking ScoTTy was the engineer aboard the Starship Enterprise :wink:


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

Jo Sharp said:


> If the voltage regs are OK, could it be faulty decoupling capacitors on the regulator output rails?


Wish it were that simple Jo. The backlights for the two small displays are controlled by a transistor which PWM the power to control the brightness. The base of this is directly connected to an output pin on one of the microcontrollers and is permanently low... which could be cos the chip has died (although other pins are high) or something is dragging it down (but 1kohms to +5v pulls it up and the lights come on!, so its not a 'hard' low and according to the spec of the chip it should be able to pull this down OK).. all of which suggests the pin is floating or tristate which suggests the CPU is not doing its thing because the program isn't running (but other things do seem to work and other lights flash). However the main dash lights which come on when the sidelights are put on don't (although the 'lights on' indicator does work) and these are also brightness controlled... but not by the same pin.. Indeed all four lamp circuits appear to have separate PWM drives from the CPU but I have only identified the display one so far. While I am learning a lot, I have a sneaky feeling that the microcontroller isn't playing the game and this isn't going to be a fixable fault.


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## Jazzedout (May 8, 2002)

Chip_iTT said:


> Jo Sharp said:
> 
> 
> > If the voltage regs are OK, could it be faulty decoupling capacitors on the regulator output rails?
> ...


Nutts, this is probably a transcript from Star Trek No. 3754!  

On a more serious note, keep up the good work Chip_iTT! :wink:


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

update...

WesTTy's pod proved intractable and i'll have to admit defeat for now on that one - I know whats wrong and where, just no way to fix easily.

However I know and have documented most of the key pod circuitry (which i am not going to share just yet for obvious reasons) and have updated my pod test box to allow me to drive speedo and rev counter (can do 160mph and 7k rpm at my desk!) and handle most other functions... I also now know, amongst other stuff:

How the door switch turns the displays on,
What data goes out across the CANBus when the lights are turned on
How the lighting circuits work
How the fuel and temp gauges are driven....
How the standby and ignition power circuits and associated regulators work

what I didn't have time to figure/try... whether the microcontrollers can be reprogrammed (or even 'read'), and whether it is possible to bypass the immobiliser circuit for test purposes (and no I am not going to divulge here what I do know about it)

WesTTy's pod is in the process of winging its way back to him (or will be shortly if my wife has managed to get to the PO)

Anyone else prepared to lend a (faulty) pod - or even a good one - to continue the process?


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## Suzaroo (May 9, 2005)

Chip_iTT said:


> some more pics.....
> 
> WesTTy, you might want to look away at this point....
> 
> ...


1. Is there anyway to get these parts for the dashpod??
My speedo is sticks.. it stays on 0mph when driving.
Some water may have got inside..
2. Also how is the alarm controlled?
eg: how do you disconect the alarm to stop the indicators from flashing?
answers on these question would be appreciated..
regards


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## Sim (Mar 7, 2003)

Suzaroo said:


> Chip_iTT said:
> 
> 
> > some more pics.....
> ...


I _think_ you control the alarm through Vagcom and therefore you need to speak to someone that has this or pop down to your local dealer. I could, however, be totally wrong. Wak will know...


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## Suzaroo (May 9, 2005)

Sim said:


> I _think_ you control the alarm through Vagcom and therefore you need to speak to someone that has this or pop down to your local dealer. I could, however, be totally wrong. Wak will know...


Ive got the VAGcom lead to connect to the car on the way to me... i just need to stop the flashing indicators on the alarm - untill i can replace the Dashpod and airbag ECU..


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

Suzaroo said:


> 1. Is there anyway to get these parts for the dashpod??
> My speedo is sticks.. it stays on 0mph when driving.
> Some water may have got inside..
> 2. Also how is the alarm controlled?
> ...


1. We don't have a supplier for these yet, despite ongoing investigations...It is extremely unlikely that its sticking due to water ingress... as they are sealed units. More likely there is a problem with the speedo sensor on the output shaft of the gearbox or its wiring. As a first test, you can use vagcom or the climate control display to determine if there is an output.

2. I don't think there is any way from VAGCom to stop the indicators flashing... if this is due to a faulty airbag ECU then this is because the crash signal has been activated. AFAIK this cannot be disabled by VAGCom and can only be reset by replacing the Airbag ECU.


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## Suzaroo (May 9, 2005)

Chip_iTT said:


> It is extremely unlikely that its sticking due to water ingress... as they are sealed units. More likely there is a problem with the speedo sensor on the output shaft of the gearbox or its wiring. As a first test, you can use vagcom or the climate control display to determine if there is an output..


Im new to this... how is it possible to get to the sensor or wiring for the speedo? :? 


Chip_iTT said:


> 2. I don't think there is any way from VAGCom to stop the indicators flashing... if this is due to a faulty airbag ECU then this is because the crash signal has been activated. AFAIK this cannot be disabled by VAGCom and can only be reset by replacing the Airbag ECU.


I think/thought it was the alarm triggering because the indicators flash for a while faster than the hazards do - but there is not a audible alarm sounding. Eventually the indicators do stop flashing. :?


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

Suzaroo said:


> Im new to this... how is it possible to get to the sensor or wiring for the speedo? :?


With difficulty... as a start look at http://www.wak-tt.com/tt/climatecontcodes.htm, code # 17 vehicle speed... if this gives sensible results then the sensor is OK... if not then its broken or the wiring is faulty... poss corroded connectors due to water ingress (knowing the history of your car IIRC)


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## Suzaroo (May 9, 2005)

ok cheers ill check it out... :wink:


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