# Rear seat delete practicalities



## reeceturner3 (Sep 8, 2011)

I've been considering doing a rear seat delete for a while now, but i always have in the back of my mind "what if i need them"
I wanted peoples opinions on how often you actually use them, obviously each person's answer will be different due to their personal circumstance, for example, age, partner having another car, having kids, using it as a daily or not and just plain old billy no mates :roll:

So how often do you find yourself squeezing someone into the back, even if it's just one person, when was the last time you had the mrs in the car and ended up having to pick your brother up and give him a lift home (that's my what if i need them situation) and on the flip side, people who have done a seat delete, how often have you had to rethink a day out because of not having the extra seats in the back, or have 2 friends you want to go somewhere with but you've only got one seat.

As i said everyone's situation will be different, but I just wanted peoples opinions on 'do you REALLY need them'

Oh and my mrs thinks it's the worst idea in the world, and thinks a seat delete is a stupid idea... :x haha


----------



## eje007 (Apr 19, 2013)

I'm only 22, therefore no kids to speak of. However, I love my delete wouldn't change it back for the world. To be honest, I never even tried to squeeze anyone in the backseat when I still had it.


----------



## Sean-f (May 5, 2013)

TT only car we have at the moment, the wife usually has a four seat car and I have always has a 2 seater I can not remember the last time we carried passengers we don't have kids so thats not a issue if you, think about how often to you carry more than one extra person with you???


----------



## reeceturner3 (Sep 8, 2011)

I honestly believe after doing the build and seeing it all completed I probably wouldn't regret it, as you said i think i'd fall in love with it, but i'm just trying to weigh up the passenger situation, it's quite a big step to take because it's not a 5 minute job to put the seats back in that's all.

I'm 21 myself and find that when i go for a skate i tend to be mr taxi, i have actually managed to fill all the seats on a few occasions, dad in the front, older and younger brother in the back, this was my driving position :lol:


----------



## reeceturner3 (Sep 8, 2011)

Sean-f said:


> TT only car we have at the moment, the wife usually has a four seat car and I have always has a 2 seater I can not remember the last time we carried passengers we don't have kids so thats not a issue if you, think about how often to you carry more than one extra person with you???


I don't have kids so that's not an issue, it's mainly just the mrs or my mates, unfortunately she doesn't drive and the mates i see regularly don't either, just out of interest do you have a QS or did you do the delete yourself?

EDIT: just read your sig, seen it's a 225, have you done a seat delete or do you just not use the back bench at all?


----------



## TTQ2K2 (Jun 25, 2009)

I see no real benefit for taking them out. Fold them down and you've got "delete." Fold them up and you can take your brothers/da on a short trip.

Plus, given the serious front weight bias the TT has, remove those seats and you only make it worse.

I've carried a lot of stuff in the back of mine and never once thought it would have been beneficial to have them out.

cheers


----------



## Sean-f (May 5, 2013)

reeceturner3 said:


> Sean-f said:
> 
> 
> > TT only car we have at the moment, the wife usually has a four seat car and I have always has a 2 seater I can not remember the last time we carried passengers we don't have kids so thats not a issue if you, think about how often to you carry more than one extra person with you???
> ...


We have not had the car long but have not used the rear seat at all and can not remember the last time we have ever used them in previous cars, if we are going out in a group it usually involves a drink or two so we use cabs, I really don't think anyone would thank you for a lift in the back of a TT maybe only for a short journey and if its a short trip tell them to get a cab :lol: :lol:


----------



## reeceturner3 (Sep 8, 2011)

TTQ2K2 said:


> I see no real benefit for taking them out. Fold them down and you've got "delete." Fold them up and you can take your brothers/da on a short trip.
> 
> Plus, given the serious front weight bias the TT has, remove those seats and you only make it worse.
> 
> ...


I think mainly for me it's cosmetic, well, i suppose that's the only reason you'd remove them really.

And i should have mentioned the delete would include a boot build, not a chavtastic halfords special, nothing OTT, something like this but minus the amps, looks a little too much for my liking, but i have really taken a liking to the positioning of those subs, just want something nice and clean looking... if i was going to do it that is :roll:

Plus surely that would add 'some' weight back to the rear with the new MDF and subs etc..?


----------



## reeceturner3 (Sep 8, 2011)

> We have not had the car long but have not used the rear seat at all and can not remember the last time we have ever used them in previous cars, if we are going out in a group it usually involves a drink or two so we use cabs, I really don't think anyone would thank you for a lift in the back of a TT maybe only for a short journey and if its a short trip tell them to get a cab :lol: :lol:


Ahh okay, i'm kind of swaying towards getting rid now 8) actually thinking about how often i give people lifts to how often i could look in the back and see a nice clean seat delete... I think the seat delete wins on that one  although i am still a little on the fence :roll:


----------



## TTQ2K2 (Jun 25, 2009)

The only draw back to that setup is the noise. The TT hatch area does a great job of producing unwanted drone, distortion, hum, and other unwanted noises. Ask anyone that has an aftermarket exhaust.

Also, massive woofers may look neat-o, or cool, or dope, or rad, or whatever adjective the kids use today, but when it is just noise beause of the lousy accoustics that is the TT hatch area, there's just not enough "rad" to make it ok. Before you know it, you're advertising in the Mart to get rid of woofers plus equipment and hoping to recoup some quid to buy another set of rear seats.

But, as always: your TT, your quid, your decision.

cheers.


----------



## reeceturner3 (Sep 8, 2011)

TTQ2K2 said:


> The only draw back to that setup is the noise. The TT hatch area does a great job of producing unwanted drone, distortion, hum, and other unwanted noises. Ask anyone that has an aftermarket exhaust.
> 
> Also, massive woofers may look neat-o, or cool, or dope, or rad, or whatever adjective the kids use today, but when it is just noise beause of the lousy accoustics that is the TT hatch area, there's just not enough "rad" to make it ok. Before you know it, you're advertising in the Mart to get rid of woofers plus equipment and hoping to recoup some quid to buy another set of rear seats.
> 
> ...


Hmmr you make a good point, on that forum i grabbed those pictures off there was mention of the acoustics with the positioning of the subs, also what you said about the "hatch area" with unwanted noise, maybe a rethink is in order, but i am glad to get your side on the seat delete as that's what the thread is all about 

An aftermarket exhaust will be added to the TT at some point, ideally I could do with seeing one in the flesh, then i could take into account how it changes the acoustics of the cab, also how it feels and looks to have the rear seats gone.


----------



## TTQ2K2 (Jun 25, 2009)

Find a QS owner with an aftermarket exhaust and buy them a pint in return for a "spirited" ride. That should give you a good idea of the change in noise level.

cheers.


----------



## lotuselanplus2s (Jun 18, 2012)

I have toddler twins hence use the rear seats on probably 30% of journeys.

However the real reason I would never do a seat delete is that 70% of journeys are work related hence I've got a laptop etc with me. With a seat delete everyone can see your 'stuff' the whole time (petrol station / parked etc). I've had 2 previous cars broken into for stuff in the boot (toerags were watching everyone go into Tesco's car park and move stuff into the boot).

Also if you put a bag in the boot and later hit the brakes then with a seat delete it'll end up hitting you in the back of the head or going through the window.

IMHO looks great but doesn't work in the real world unless you NEVER carry anything in the car.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9790 using Tapatalk


----------



## Paulj100 (Mar 24, 2009)

Never used the back seats so doing it gave me much more boot space and looks cool 8)


----------



## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

The what seats now?


----------



## darylbenfield (Jun 29, 2011)

Get it done!


----------



## stuptt225 (Dec 15, 2010)

The only time i ever used my back seats was when i was transporting my ex and my daughter (ex in back, daughter in the front of course :lol: ) and my ex actually encouraged me to do the rear seat delete because of it as she thought the back seat area is so uncomfortable! In my opinion the car is better without the rear seats for both look and weight saving and although the exhaust is more prominent in sound i dont think thats a bad thing on a sports car!


----------



## Paulj100 (Mar 24, 2009)

stuptt225 said:


> The only time i ever used my back seats was when i was transporting my ex and my daughter (ex in back, daughter in the front of course :lol: ) and my ex actually encouraged me to do the rear seat delete because of it as she thought the back seat area is so uncomfortable! In my opinion the car is better without the rear seats for both look and weight saving and although the exhaust is more prominent in sound i dont think thats a bad thing on a sports car!


Just do it! You won't regret it 8) mines totally reversible so if you ever won't to change it back to rear seats you can.

Paul


----------



## reeceturner3 (Sep 8, 2011)

lotuselanplus2s said:


> I have toddler twins hence use the rear seats on probably 30% of journeys.
> 
> However the real reason I would never do a seat delete is that 70% of journeys are work related hence I've got a laptop etc with me. With a seat delete everyone can see your 'stuff' the whole time (petrol station / parked etc). I've had 2 previous cars broken into for stuff in the boot (toerags were watching everyone go into Tesco's car park and move stuff into the boot).
> 
> ...


First off sorry to hear about your break ins, it does seem people use them mostly for children, also I do always have my bag and boots in the car for work, plus my skateboard, I did wonder about how stuff in the boot area would act when driving around but is that what people use the cargo net for? If I was going to do this I think personally I wouldn't feel comfortable how on show my belongings are, so I would probably have the windows tinted, dark on the boot and legal on the sides :razz:

Actually one thing I have noticed is some people have a 'dipped' section towards the front of the car where the rear bench was, which looks like it's for putting your bag etc in, is that a standard QS setup or is that someone thinking outside the box?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## reeceturner3 (Sep 8, 2011)

stuptt225 said:


> The only time i ever used my back seats was when i was transporting my ex and my daughter (ex in back, daughter in the front of course :lol: ) and my ex actually encouraged me to do the rear seat delete because of it as she thought the back seat area is so uncomfortable! In my opinion the car is better without the rear seats for both look and weight saving and although the exhaust is more prominent in sound i dont think thats a bad thing on a sports car!


Haha yes of course ex in the back  there are clearly pros and cons to doing the delete. I know how uncomfortable the seats are, when I first wet to view the car my dad had to do the test drive which meant in had to get into the back, I spend the whole test drive lying down and have straddling the center console!

Does it give the car a better feel to it, not driving wise, I mean when you get into it, like it's a nice environment if you get what I mean, also I assume most people do the delete then invest in some pole positions? Or do you find the front seats don't look out of place?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Neb (Oct 25, 2007)

I would just do the delete. Personally, in the 4 or 5 years I've owned the car I've only had people in the back seat a handful of times and it was super uncomfortable for everyone.

You can get away with things sliding around if you get the netting that goes on the floor (attaches to the metal flaps) and the QS strut bar netting so that's really not a good reason not to get one done.

Personally I just think it comes down to looks, does the RSD provide any real benefit? Not really, maybe the strut bar helps with rigidity.. but it looks pretty!


----------



## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

My delete :

Subwoofer comes out in seconds (never has though) and a car fridge fits alongside on days out


----------



## boost22 (May 22, 2013)

reeceturner3 said:


> TTQ2K2 said:
> 
> 
> > I see no real benefit for taking them out. Fold them down and you've got "delete." Fold them up and you can take your brothers/da on a short trip.
> ...


this looks amazing... mate you gonna rattle your lights off


----------



## Gone (May 5, 2009)

You can address the acoustics to some extent by fitting sound deadening around the area, provided you do a proper job and take out all the low frequencies. There's a a thread on here from 2009/2010, may even be in the Mk1 knowledge base. You're probably looking at 2 weekends and £200.

Perhaps you can make a secret compartment in the floor to hide the odd valuables.


----------



## 225jay (Aug 11, 2013)

liking the look of this , think mine will be coming out  bank holiday project :lol: 
j


----------



## luscombe (Jan 16, 2011)

I have found the rear seats useful when we collect our grandchildren. In my opinion the car looks better with the rear seats. I very much doubt that anyone could honestly feel the difference in handling after removing the rear seats. Many Porsches and Ferraris have been sold with small rear seats and they seem to handle quite well despite the enormous weight disadvantage. THIS 'DELETE OPTION' is just a con-job by the manufacturers. Take out usefull (and costly) equipment and then charge you more for the privilage. The spare wheel delete is the biggest joke. How cool would you look standing by the side of the road in the Penines in January, with a flat tyre and an empty spare wheel well?? Bloody stupid and impractical modern fashion!! But I suppose you only have to watch Top Gear to realise that for many cars have become expensive toys (OR PENIS EXTENTIONS) rather than practical transport. Why not take out the passenger seat as well? Or maybe the heavy full size fuel tank and replace it with a two gallon 'sprint' tank so that you could experience the enhanced handling and shave 0.1 seconds off the 0-60 time?


----------



## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

So - seat deletes - not for grumpy old granddads then :lol:


----------



## TTQ2K2 (Jun 25, 2009)

mullum said:


> So - seat deletes - not for grumpy old granddads then :lol:


LOL, seems that way. :wink:


----------



## Cornwall (Apr 8, 2013)

From one grumpy old granddad to another I'm with you on that....I agree, I quite like mine with the seats if I need more room I drop the seats, what's wrong with that.

But then it would be boring if we all did the same thing. Every one to themselves...seems too much like hard work. If I removed mine I would need to have the windows tinted to stop people prying into the expensive stuff I carry in the boot, which is more cost, and invites the local natives to come nosing around.

Guys you carry on, my V6 is fast enough, my heart and eyesight wouldn't cope with more speed and sloppy handling or whatever.

Have a good one

Tone


----------



## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

I would've though that with the deteriorating hearing of old age, the louder speakers might help - especially when tuning into The Archers on the wireless :lol:


----------



## boost22 (May 22, 2013)

Gone Ape said:


> You can address the acoustics to some extent by fitting sound deadening around the area, provided you do a proper job and take out all the low frequencies. There's a a thread on here from 2009/2010, may even be in the Mk1 knowledge base. You're probably looking at 2 weekends and £200.
> 
> Perhaps you can make a secret compartment in the floor to hide the odd valuables.


thanks gone ape... whats the £200 for the material?... also how would he change the light bulb...


----------



## Cornwall (Apr 8, 2013)

Hi Mullum,

In most circumstances I would agree the bigger the speakers you get the farm yard effects more clearly but with those they'll blow the batteries in my hearing aids and when it comes to the music on the BBC Light Stations the beats affect the pulsing of the heart pace maker.

It will come to you guys in time.

My apologies "stuptt225" for posting seeming less comments on your thread. Mind you I do like the adaptations not a bad bit of timber work there but what are those "Pioneer Rectangle Shaped Boxes" in the floor those are neat laptops.


----------



## luscombe (Jan 16, 2011)

Would that be grumpy old Grandads like Stirling Moss and Jackie Stewart?


----------



## Gohie (Mar 17, 2013)

alij100 said:


> Never used the back seats so doing it gave me much more boot space and looks cool 8)


How do you the rear seats to go flat?

Take the bases out?


----------



## Paulj100 (Mar 24, 2009)

Gohie said:


> alij100 said:
> 
> 
> > Never used the back seats so doing it gave me much more boot space and looks cool 8)
> ...


Yes just pull the base seat out and the back folds down completely flat. What I did do was when the base seat was out I put an old blanket across the floor plan so that the back section when laid flat does not mark the leather. Doing it this way I can very simply put the back seat in again if I need to.

Paul


----------



## Gohie (Mar 17, 2013)

Where did you get the bar from?


----------



## boost22 (May 22, 2013)

owww cheaper option :-D


----------



## Paulj100 (Mar 24, 2009)

Gohie said:


> Where did you get the bar from?


eBay. All you need is a 50mm aluminium bar and just sprayed it phantom black very easy and only cost £12.

Paul


----------



## boost22 (May 22, 2013)

alij how does it bolt in...


----------



## Trouble4 (Oct 4, 2012)

really only need 8"/10" sub and one at that......(still looking at 2  ) and they can fit where the first aid and cd changer are

if you want..... Myself looking for 1 in first aid and one almost where seat latch is in rear left or right side......

going for quality of sound though focal front.........


----------



## boost22 (May 22, 2013)

I was asking about the bar matey lol not the huge speakers


----------



## Trouble4 (Oct 4, 2012)

boost22 said:


> I was asking about the bar matey lol not the huge speakers


like the bar great for pole dancing :lol: just kidding .........

do like it for from strength ......... as well


----------



## boost22 (May 22, 2013)

whanab said:


> boost22 said:
> 
> 
> > I was asking about the bar matey lol not the huge speakers
> ...


ill get the girl friend to try it :wink:

maybe good fro strenth for the shit handling :roll:


----------



## Trouble4 (Oct 4, 2012)

boost22 said:


> whanab said:
> 
> 
> > boost22 said:
> ...


who said she ever had to land 

keep her in the air for a while............ 8)


----------



## boost22 (May 22, 2013)

hahaha ill keep her up in the air


----------



## Chris Woods (May 12, 2013)

alij100 said:


> Gohie said:
> 
> 
> > Where did you get the bar from?
> ...


Would love to know how you fitted this ?


----------



## booree (Aug 22, 2011)

Chris Woods said:


> alij100 said:
> 
> 
> > Gohie said:
> ...


Me too


----------



## Paulj100 (Mar 24, 2009)

Ok my way to fit a rear seat delete bar the finished result is an exact replica to the original. First buy an aluminium tube off eBay around £12 it cost me get a slightly longer tube than needed and needs to be 50mm tubing. With the back seats pushed down you have 2 bolts sticking out each side these are needed for the bar to fit on measure the gap between the washer at the back of the bolt to the other side of the car giving you the length of the bar needed I then just reduced the lengh by 2mm. I also bought 2 large 50mm metal washers these were glued/bonded onto the end of the tubing. On one end a slot was cut about 3mm wide and 8mm deep down to the hole in the washer. The rear seat delete aluminium surrounds ( I can get for £80 a pair these retail at £135 a pair at Audi ) slide the surrounds onto the bar then the end with the uncut washer was pushed into one side of the bolt and the cut end was dropped over the other side, having cut the slot the same width as the bolt it fitted perfect and held firm then finally slide the large ring surrounds to each end covering all the fixture points job done you are left with a rear seat delete bar that is an exact copy of the original and total cost was under £100. Sprayed my bar phantom black to give it that OM look.

Sorry don't have any pics and hope it made sense.

Paul


----------



## Chris Woods (May 12, 2013)

Cheers for that , understood perfectly! Off to eBay I go!


----------



## nilrem (Sep 9, 2011)

For those thinking of doing the delete and may have missed my ad in the for sale section.

I'm selling a brand new pair of genuine QS rear strut bar surrounds cheap.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=375114&p=2822394

Cheers


----------



## eje007 (Apr 19, 2013)

I haven't completely finished up yet, but I removed the seats completely and installed two 10' subs and have hid the amp under the floor board as well... Not quite satisfied with it yet, really like the aluminum bar that Paul has so I might be looking into that!! I enclosed both subs as well or else the bass would've just ran through the frame... How do you guys like it?


----------



## joeplease (Dec 8, 2012)

alij100 said:


> Ok my way to fit a rear seat delete bar the finished result is an exact replica to the original. First buy an aluminium tube off eBay around £12 it cost me get a slightly longer tube than needed and needs to be 50mm tubing. With the back seats pushed down you have 2 bolts sticking out each side these are needed for the bar to fit on measure the gap between the washer at the back of the bolt to the other side of the car giving you the length of the bar needed I then just reduced the lengh by 2mm. I also bought 2 large 50mm metal washers these were glued/bonded onto the end of the tubing. On one end a slot was cut about 3mm wide and 8mm deep down to the hole in the washer. The rear seat delete aluminium surrounds ( I can get for £80 a pair these retail at £135 a pair at Audi ) slide the surrounds onto the bar then the end with the uncut washer was pushed into one side of the bolt and the cut end was dropped over the other side, having cut the slot the same width as the bolt it fitted perfect and held firm then finally slide the large ring surrounds to each end covering all the fixture points job done you are left with a rear seat delete bar that is an exact copy of the original and total cost was under £100. Sprayed my bar phantom black to give it that OM look.
> 
> Sorry don't have any pics and hope it made sense.
> 
> Paul


so its just one of the ends that you cut the slot into ?


----------



## Paulj100 (Mar 24, 2009)

joeplease said:


> alij100 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok my way to fit a rear seat delete bar the finished result is an exact replica to the original. First buy an aluminium tube off eBay around £12 it cost me get a slightly longer tube than needed and needs to be 50mm tubing. With the back seats pushed down you have 2 bolts sticking out each side these are needed for the bar to fit on measure the gap between the washer at the back of the bolt to the other side of the car giving you the length of the bar needed I then just reduced the lengh by 2mm. I also bought 2 large 50mm metal washers these were glued/bonded onto the end of the tubing. On one end a slot was cut about 3mm wide and 8mm deep down to the hole in the washer. The rear seat delete aluminium surrounds ( I can get for £80 a pair these retail at £135 a pair at Audi ) slide the surrounds onto the bar then the end with the uncut washer was pushed into one side of the bolt and the cut end was dropped over the other side, having cut the slot the same width as the bolt it fitted perfect and held firm then finally slide the large ring surrounds to each end covering all the fixture points job done you are left with a rear seat delete bar that is an exact copy of the original and total cost was under £100. Sprayed my bar phantom black to give it that OM look.
> ...


Yes I did just one end but you could do both and just slot both ends down. You won't see the slots once fitted as the surround rings cover them up.

Paul


----------



## joeplease (Dec 8, 2012)

alij100 said:


> joeplease said:
> 
> 
> > alij100 said:
> ...


 nice one man, also another question. I've heard you can use the aircon vent rings instead of the qs rear bar surrounds, any idea if this is correct?


----------



## Kyle18uk (Jul 3, 2012)

I just called Audi to order a QS partition net, they wanted £394!!!! Just for the net! Think I'll get the sewing machine out and make one!


----------



## Paulj100 (Mar 24, 2009)

Not sure about the air vent surrounds I can get the rear seat rings or the rings that fit at the base of roadster rear bar loops for £70 plus postage direct from Audi.

As for the netting it is very expensive I've heard of some one buying old seat belts as they can be cut and stitched together to create a very similar look or another way is to buy the netting that racing cars have fitted In there windows these are smaller squares but many company will make them to the size you require.

Paul


----------



## neil_audiTT (Sep 1, 2010)

I toyed with the idea of a delete, But i have occasionally (normally town emergencies!) used the back seats.

Plus, it's quite noisy with them out as i've got a decat milltek system. You'd be surprised how much noise seats stop!


----------



## Paulj100 (Mar 24, 2009)

neil_audiTT said:


> I toyed with the idea of a delete, But i have occasionally (normally town emergencies!) used the back seats.
> 
> Plus, it's quite noisy with them out as i've got a decat milltek system. You'd be surprised how much noise seats stop!


Can't say I've noticed and difference in sound levels but then I just have the standard exhaust system plus with my rear seat delete I still have the back fitted just layed flat though.

Paul


----------



## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

If the seats are still there, it's not really a seat delete - is it ? (Surely)


----------



## boost22 (May 22, 2013)

mullum said:


> If the seats are still there, it's not really a seat delete - is it ? (Surely)


saves all the hastle tho


----------



## Paulj100 (Mar 24, 2009)

Lol very true but I this way I can simply lift the bar out and pull the seat back up in seconds if I need to so best of both words plus with the seat flat I can see my pole positions sooo much better  :wink:


----------



## neil_audiTT (Sep 1, 2010)

alij100 said:


> neil_audiTT said:
> 
> 
> > I toyed with the idea of a delete, But i have occasionally (normally town emergencies!) used the back seats.
> ...


Yeah mine's quite alot louder than standard. lol. It's fine with windows up and everything in place. Not intrusive at all. But lower the seats and it does resonate through the cabin abit! - Sounds awesome, but would probably blag after being in it for a long time.


----------



## darylbenfield (Jun 29, 2011)

My seat delete. Love it without the rear seats in!

(old pic)


----------



## Volcom (Apr 24, 2014)

Been thinking about doing this but can people tell me what they about the net if doing this DIY? I mean do you make it? If so at the bottom and top what have you done or does some place make that at a good price. Would love to know


----------



## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Volcom said:


> Been thinking about doing this but can people tell me what they about the net if doing this DIY? I mean do you make it? If so at the bottom and top what have you done or does some place make that at a good price. Would love to know


You can make the net from old seat belts


----------



## Volcom (Apr 24, 2014)

Yep I was thinking that too. Would be good to get some good photo of the net and how it fits at the bottom.


----------



## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

Very rarely we need to get two passengers somewhere. We either take both 2-seaters or rope the boy to take them in his Suzuki Alto.


----------

