# Is DSG(s-tronic) worth it?



## sw1 (Apr 8, 2006)

Hi,

I'm debating whether to give with DSG when I eventually order my 2.0 TT.

It woul dbe great to have some feedback, everyone I know that own's car's with DSG say it gets annoying after a while, these owned a 3.2 TT, Audi A3 S-line and a Golf GTi MK V.

I always go with manual but I was thinking of making the change this time.


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## Iceman (Jul 3, 2004)

sw1 said:


> I always go with manual but I was thinking of making the change this time.


Don't do it, go manual.
S-Tronic (DSG) is just a fancy autobox. :wink:

Hans.


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## sw1 (Apr 8, 2006)

thats what I thought, I do like the idea of the short shift manual stick as an option though, that look snazzy, used to have one on my old 325 sport convertible.


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

You should drive a DSG-equipped car and try it for yourself. But give it a good long testdrive (like a weekend) to give yourself time to get used to it.

Is it like an auto?

Yup, but without the annoying flatspots and delays in power delivery, and with the option of semi-manual shifts with perfect timing! It'll be my first auto ... I tried it in a friends A3 and liked it. Then tried it in a TT (mk1) and was hooked.


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## squiggel (May 16, 2006)

Yes it is...

It will be my first ever automatic, because it is faster and more efficient than manual, and if you want to go manual you can, you just dont have to operate the clutch yourself... Seems to be a step change from what has come before to me, and there no longer seems to be any point in working those left leg muscles...

Theres only one way to find out for sure if it's for you though, and thats try it..


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

Bag of crock, go manual


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## sw1 (Apr 8, 2006)

cheers for your comments guys,

Main reason I was thinking about it was due to them lovely stop start drives on the M4 I occasionally get.

Do you notice any lag with DSG or the boxes changes up to early?

Think I will go and test drive one when they are in the show rooms.

Won't be ordering till early next year as I have to buy a new house first


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## Johnnywb (May 31, 2006)

One thing many guys on another audi forum have commented on (audi-sport.net) is that when it's in manual mode, it isn't a true manual. I.e. If you put it in manual and then rev it hard, it will still change up for you. It won't let you hold a gear near the rev limiter apparently, which some say can be very annoying. Just worth bearing in mind.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

Test drive a current V6DSG, same box, same engine.


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## cuTTsy (Jan 31, 2003)

Leg said:


> Test drive a current V6DSG, same box, same engine.


sw1 is looking at the 2.0T so not quite the same.

I will be ordering s-tronic this will be my third car with the DSG box.
On my 3.2 i had lots of problems with the gear box in and out of the dealers about 6 times and eventually had the gearbox changed.

Having said that I think it is excellent when it works well, which it did when the box was finally changed. It can not be compaired to an traditional automatic, the changes are quicker and smoother than a manual and you can also use the paddles if you want to change gear yourself. On the 3.2 it blips down through the geras when you break (makes a great sound)

Like some have suggested you need to drive it for yourself, so if you are going for the 2.0T go and get a test drive in an A3 2.0T with DSG.

Also don't forget it has Launch Control!!


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## cuTTsy (Jan 31, 2003)

Leg said:


> Test drive a current V6DSG, same box, same engine.


sw1 is looking at the 2.0T so not quite the same.

I will be ordering s-tronic this will be my third car with the DSG box.
On my 3.2 i had lots of problems with the gear box in and out of the dealers about 6 times and eventually had the gearbox changed.

Having said that I think it is excellent when it works well, which it did when the box was finally changed. It can not be compaired to an traditional automatic, the changes are quicker and smoother than a manual and you can also use the paddles if you want to change gear yourself. On the 3.2 it blips down through the geras when you break (makes a great sound)

Like some have suggested you need to drive it for yourself, so if you are going for the 2.0T go and get a test drive in an A3 2.0T with DSG.

Also don't forget it has Launch Control!!


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

sw1 said:


> thats what I thought, I do like the idea of the short shift manual stick as an option though, that look snazzy, used to have one on my old 325 sport convertible.


Go drive DSG - you'll then wonder if you'll ever go back to manual!
And no it's not an auto!!!


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## Iceman (Jul 3, 2004)

saint said:


> And no it's not an auto!!!


There is nothing manual about it, not even when it's in manual mode.

Hans.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

saint said:


> sw1 said:
> 
> 
> > thats what I thought, I do like the idea of the short shift manual stick as an option though, that look snazzy, used to have one on my old 325 sport convertible.
> ...


I did, horrible, drove TT Shops orange beasty last week too and my first comment was 'f&^k me that gearbox is awful, ill have one when im old and got arthritis'.

Worth debating though, hasnt been discussed at any length yet and until everyone agrees one way or the other I wont be able to relax :lol:


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## der_horst (Apr 29, 2006)

Iceman said:


> There is nothing manual about it, not even when it's in manual mode.


always a question of what's manual and what's automatic.

"they say it's a fully automatic rifle, but in fact you have to pull this little trigger here for it to work"

btw: what's the 'launch control' the dsg offers?


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## Iceman (Jul 3, 2004)

der_horst said:


> btw: what's the 'launch control' the dsg offers?


You need to switch off ESP put your foot on the brake put the trottle to the floor the ECU will gif the engine 3000-4000 rpm's.
Then if you keep the trottle to the floor and release quickly the brake it will launch it self true the gears redlining it al the way till the moment you release the trottle or hit the brakes.

Hans.


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## der_horst (Apr 29, 2006)

and that's an official feature? the bmw m3 had this as well, but there you had to enable it by a wierd combination of things to do that were not described in the manual. and they also recorded the number of these starts as they would decline warranty for some parts if you had made more than 10 of these.


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## Iceman (Jul 3, 2004)

der_horst said:


> and that's an official feature?


Yes it is. :wink:

Hans.


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## sw1 (Apr 8, 2006)

Thanks for the replies guys, good to see some constructive comments on the subjects and the opinions between TT oweners who hvae had and have DSG.


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## Johnwx (Oct 31, 2004)

The only true way is an extended test drive.
In truth I think it depends on the sort of driving you do day in day out.
If you live in the south of the uk where its motorway stop start and around town then stick it in 'D' mode and forget about it left leg feels better.
If you manage to get out of traffic and want a spirited drive then S mode of paddles.

IF IF IF you live where there is no traffic or you have your own estate/ test circut or the north of UK :wink: then I would consider 6 speed man box.
But in modern day crap$ville this is generally not the case, so maybe DSG is a reasonable compromise


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## cuTTsy (Jan 31, 2003)

Johnwx said:


> so maybe DSG is a reasonable compromise


I really feel it is not a compromise.
If dsg was invented before manual there would not be manual. It changes gear quicker than a manual/driver can and yet still gives you the choice to change gear if you want. The best of both worlds.


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## galwaytt (May 15, 2003)

Iceman...you need to rtfm...the DSG is not an auto box. It is a traditional mechanical gearbox ('manual' if you like...), with a computer controlled change. It is mechanically connected to the wheels by a multiplate clutch system (2 in the case of DSG), so offers 'manual' levels of engine braking and even better than 'manual' acceleration response.

An 'automatic', on the other hand - the 'traditional' type, even a tiptronic one, is a brakeband device with a fluid flywheel connection between engine and wheels - hence the reduced engine braking and the 'lag' on acceleration as the torque convertor absorbs the input energy from the engine......

I've done 10k in a Tiptronic Passat and 15k in 11 weeks in a DSG Golf (this year so far...) - both diesel, btw, and the DSG equipped Golf, even with a lower output engine, was streets ahead of the Tiptronic - and that in itself was good too. Sharper acceleration, much better lift-off throttle behaviour, and a seamless gearchange..........the fact that it used LESS diesel than even a previous manual one, is just the icing on the cake.

As someone else said - if DSG was invented first, manuals wouldn't even have evolved at all.......... it really is that good.

And, when it comes to resale, I think you'll find the DSG car will hold it's value better down the line.........as well as being easier to sell.......lot's of city types value it.

I just value it for .........it's brilliance, and simplicity.

...of course, it's all been done before y'know.....the Wilson Preselecta gearbox is not dissimilar...............


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

Galway, ok its not an 'automatic' in the traditional sense from a technology and engineering point of view but it changes gears, on its own, when it knows you need the next gear. Thats in EVERY mode, including supposed 'manual'.

Sounds pretty bl00dy automatic to me!

There are always going to be 2 camps on this, some will love the DSG and others, like me, will hate the damn thing. I prefer more direct control myself, its the meglomaniac in me! Oh and the 3rd camp, those who dont give a toss.

Its a pointless argument and a waste of bytes. If you like it buy it, if you dont, dont. Once everyones made that choice they can stfu and enjoy the car.


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## pbarlow003 (Aug 11, 2005)

It only changes up a gear in "Manual" mode if you hit the rev limiter, which can't be a bad thing?

It only changes down in manual mode if the revs drop to the point where it would stall, roughly 600 rpm.

Its good for the drive to work, stick it in D and just pootle along in a queue of traffic :?


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

pbarlow003 said:


> It only changes up a gear in "Manual" mode if you hit the rev limiter, which can't be a bad thing?
> 
> It only changes down in manual mode if the revs drop to the point where it would stall, roughly 600 rpm.
> 
> Its good for the drive to work, stick it in D and just pootle along in a queue of traffic :?


Unless you use the paddles ... in which case you have a "manual" (ie human driver deciding when to change gear) "automatic" (ie no use of clutch) gear change.

Which sounds like the best of both worlds to me ...


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## pbarlow003 (Aug 11, 2005)

Exactly! What I was meaning was, for those people who say you can't hold a gear with a lot of revs, it'll only change if you actually hit the rev limiter, which to me is no worse than in a normal manual where you would change before then anyway!


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Iceman said:


> saint said:
> 
> 
> > And no it's not an auto!!!
> ...


Wait..... but but but I press a paddle or move a stick and things happen.


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## Johnwx (Oct 31, 2004)

cuTTsy said:


> Johnwx said:
> 
> 
> > so maybe DSG is a reasonable compromise
> ...


The only inprovement that I would like to see is a button in Man mode that prevents the software from changing up/down at min/max revs.
There are times on backroads/circuits etc when you are mid corner and wish the car to stay in the gear/revs its in, however if you increase revs by a few the DSG changes gear destabilising the car mid corner.
Hence my comment 'conprimise' most of us do not drive this way 95% of the time. BUT it would be nice to be able to use Full Man mode on the odd 5% of the time.
I have done 27K miles with my DSG and for my everyday driving it wins hands down. But that does not mean to say that the DSG box is not a comprimise, or at least the controlling software! :wink:


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## aguess (Mar 21, 2004)

i hated the DSG. IMO if you like and want an auto then you'll love the DSG as it'll give you the best of both worlds, but if you like the total control of a manual then you'll hate the DSG.

I'm curently driving an M3 with the SMG gearbox and although i'm finding it better than the DSG, I'm still in much the same opinion about it and would prefer a manual. Company car though and beggers can't be choosers.

What I hated about the DSG didn't really manifest itself while I was test driving. It was only after a lot more miles that it started to annoy me and ultimately pushed me to sell my TT.


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

aguess said:


> I'm curently driving an M3 with the SMG gearbox and although i'm finding it better than the DSG, I'm still in much the same opinion about it and would prefer a manual. Company car though and beggers can't be choosers.


Not really a bad company car though !!!!


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

I think it depends entirely on where you're going to be driving it.

I think we'd benefit from an 'auto' on my wife's drive to work, but the autos I've driven have all been poo.

I've only driven the DSG very briefly at the annual meet last year and liked it well enough there, but that was for a total of 38 seconds. :roll:

I'd get an extented test drive of the DSG mated to a 2.0T engine if you can - that may mean a Golf or an A3 and see how they work together.


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## harco (Jun 16, 2002)

I've been driving with DSG for a couple of years now. Sometimes I absolutely love it, occasionally I think I'd prefer a manual. I'm trying to keep an open mind. The new TT is beckoning and I need to decide.

I've virtually stopped using the DSG in manual. Probably because it rarely seems worth it. I didn't think this would happen bu the sensation of gear chaning feels very different to a normal manual box, even taking account of the fact that you don't have to press a clutch. The kind of natural flowing gear changes that feel so good when you're driving a manual well don't seem to happen for me with the DSG in manual. There's something about a clutch that seems to put you in touch with the engine. Flicking a switch (or stick) just doesn't do that.

On the other hand when I'm in the mood for a really good blast at high speed on nice twisty roads it can be great to just let the gearbox do all the work and let me concentrate on getting round those bends. Fast! As a previously confirmed manual driver I never thought I'd say that but with the 3.2's sport mode soundtrack, throttle blips included, it can easily become a brilliant driving experience.

My next car will probably be a manual. But I'm not sure. And if I do get one I bet I'll quickly become nostalgic about the relaxed clutchless cruising, the wonderful put your foot down and forget about everything but balancing the car round bends feeling, and the easy traffic jam smoothness that DSG delivers so effortlessly.

Plus, I shouldn't forget the need to consider my arthritis.

I'd also be interested to know from Aguess why the Beemer box is better.


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## aguess (Mar 21, 2004)

harco said:


> I'd also be interested to know from Aguess why the Beemer box is better.


it's hard to put my finger on it. like you say, driving fast in sports mode was always excellent in the TT and changing up gears using the manual paddles was also very smooth and quite a delight.

where i had problems with the TT 3.2 DSG was when i wanted to just drive normally. i found that it didn't select the right gear and often left me hanging in limbo for just a bit too long (1-2 seconds in no gear) at junctions and roundabouts regardless of being in manual (unless i changed down very early) or D. S was another matter, but i didn't want to be in nutter mode for the rest of my driving life 

The BMW with it's little buttons to make gear change more or less aggresive (seperate settings for D and paddles and S mode on top of that) allows me to drive much more confidently when i'm just pootling around. So far I've not had it let me down in the middle of a roundabout, i've never had that feeling of putting my foot down and not having power delivered to me. When I flick a paddle to shift down it hasn't preselected an up gear so it (the SMG) actually changes down rather than me having to wait for the DSG to deslect the upper gear and the select the down gear.

The TT 3.2 DSG obviously didn't suite my driving style whereas the SMG seems to (it's based much more around a manual i.e. it will roll backwards and if using paddles you do need to momentarily lift otherwise you get quite a lurch). From reading the forums and heavily discussing this in the past it does seem that it is very much a case of personal preference, so this is obviosuly all in my opinion 

There are other things like it has a bigger number display, i've not had it fail on me (DSG kept doing odd things like not changing out of first gear, so driving down a road i'd have to stop and restart the engine to reset it) and probably some other complaints that i had about it but can't remember any more. Dare I say it in this forum, I now actually prefer BMW's, the way I'm treated by the dealer, i'm loving the rear wheel drive set-up, and looking specifically at this forum, the way audi are treating loyal customers with some real rip off prices for the new TT - partially the reason why i've dropped back to see what the new one is like as i'd love to get another 2 seater (roadster this time) but i'm more and more tempted towards the Z4 but i may just buy an old stag 

regards,
alex


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

aguess said:


> The BMW with it's little buttons to make gear change more or less aggresive (seperate settings for D and paddles and S mode on top of that) allows me to drive much more confidently when i'm just pootling around. So far I've not had it let me down in the middle of a roundabout, i've never had that feeling of putting my foot down and not having power delivered to me. When I flick a paddle to shift down it hasn't preselected an up gear so it (the SMG) actually changes down rather than me having to wait for the DSG to deslect the upper gear and the select the down gear.
> 
> regards,
> alex


Spot on. That's exactly what I thought after driving the DSG and the Z4 3.0i auto back-to-back. D in the DSG seems to be half asleep most of the time, and does not react to the driver's need to suddenly pick up the pace unless you stamp on the throttle. The S mode is much better, but then you may not want it to hold onto the gear until the red line all the time.

Standard mode on the Beemer seemed to be a perfect balance between the two DSG modes, and reacted much more smoothly between driving normally and then suddenly wanting that additionally bit of acceleration. It meant I found it far more predictable also. With the DSG, I could not tell what it would do next - change down one gear or two, or at all.

So, I've gone with the manual and am pocketing the sizeable difference.


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## thebears (Jan 14, 2006)

Just to add my few pennies worth. :lol:

I have the DSG to a re-mapped engine and can say I would not change to a manual again. I read on here all those comments in 'D' that lazy, sluggish now pick up when coming of a roundabout etc bit i ask those manual drivers? if you roll up to a roundabout in say 4th and put your foot down what happens.....Nothing much i suspect as the engine revs are low and you have to manually change gear to get the revs up and get the car to move. Well in a DSG the changes are so much quicker than someone in a manual. Thats why the DSG cars are normally quicker on the 0-60's that the manual ones.

Its all about driving and learning how the DSG works, pull out a junction just touching the pedal and it'll change gear at 2,000rpm every time. Half press the throttle and it'll be 4,000 rpm floor it and it will hit the red line every time.

As for the manual changing gear at the red line and holding it in the corner in the gear, well i think your in the wrong gear then  , brake down, change down and power out if you need to hold the gear why would you be at the red line for when you exit the bend, surley you want to be able to push the pedel and go.

As its been debated before, its all personal prefrence, driving style, roads, commute, traffic and the rest.

Go test drive them both (or variants) but it will take you a while to learn how the DSG works. Oh and mine with the remap never seams to be slow and waiting anymore.


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## funky_chilli (Sep 14, 2006)

to bring an old thread back to life,
for those with a DSG, erm S-tronic, is the car as easy to mod as a manual one is? for example, i drive a CVT MINI cooper and it's transmission is crap, if i had to choose another MINI again it would definately have a manual in it - just coz it feels better to drive and because it makes the car so much easier to mod as the CVT thing can't handle over a certain bhp and lots of ppl worry that mods will cause the thing to slip. whatever

now i'm looking at a TT, the same question comes to mind. ok i know the dsg/s-tronic in this car is much more advanced but if i want to mod the car, ie re-map, exhuast, bigger turbo/intercooler etc will the transmission be a hindrence? or will it happily mod just like the manual?

i would love a manual car, but ultimately i drive in a lot of traffic and so an auto of some type would be better for me. however, i want the power and the noise when i go out and have some fun  hope u guys get what i mean.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

I drive in a lot of traffic but im not AN OLD MAN and my legs still work so I have a manual and have the added bonus of being able to drive the car properly when im hammering it.


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## funky_chilli (Sep 14, 2006)

fair point  and it's cheaper too....

i was talking to my gf (who can't drive manual) abt getting the manual and she said, ooh then i can learn in it!

maybe i'll pay the extra for the s-tronic instead :lol:


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## vanos (Aug 25, 2006)

funky_chilli said:


> fair point  and it's cheaper too....
> 
> i was talking to my gf (who can't drive manual) abt getting the manual and she said, ooh then i can learn in it!
> 
> maybe i'll pay the extra for the s-tronic instead :lol:


  I know I would..


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

The other annoying thing about D is when your doing say 80 on your private runway and floor it , the DSG go's down to 4th and screams its tits of till you lift, when all you really need is fifth and a helping of torque,

The other thing is say you are doing 40 it will be in 6th, again floor it and it does take a little while to go down and serve up the torque

tbh i find myself using manual quite a bit at the mo maybe it will wear off,


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## Johnnywb (May 31, 2006)

I test drove an A3 2.0T for half an hour and didn't like it at all, i just didn't feel like i had control over what the gearbox was doing, like i'd change down wiht the paddles to use some engine braking approaching a roundabout, only for it to change back up again. Got a long test of a 3.2 S-Tronic TT next weekend so we'll see how that goes, but it's manual for me at the moment.


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## croskemj (Dec 21, 2005)

I love manual cars but having tried a DSG car it seems to be pretty responsive and I am led to believe previously by audi that the s-tronic gearboxes are meant to change in 0.1sec - a little bit faster than me!


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## funky_chilli (Sep 14, 2006)

what abt the sound? does a modded dsg/s-tronic sound as good as a modded manual? like with exhuast etc??  sound is very important to me haha


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## der_horst (Apr 29, 2006)

Johnnywb said:


> i'd change down wiht the paddles to use some engine braking approaching a roundabout, only for it to change back up again.


i thought the dsg was supposed to change only when necessary, i.e. you reach the red line or are about to stall the engine? at least that's what i expect it to be, otherwise they should call it automatic :?


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## harco (Jun 16, 2002)

:idea: I've just looked at these posts again and all the thoughts I had a few years ago about whether I should get DSG or not came flooding back. It made me remember that what tipped the balance for me was someone on this forum suggesting that when I went for a test drive I should try to drive it like a manual. That tip made a huge difference.

The first time I test drove a DSG box I didn't like it. That was before the suggestion on here. The next time it was like a different car. And I thought it was a fantastic driving experience. I haven't really changed my opinion since. I've had very few of the problems other people mention and those I have had have been easy to overcome by really minor changes to my driving style.

Having said that I'm not from the camp that says you either love DSG or you hate it. I love it sometimes and not others.

I love manual boxes too. But not always. Manual is great but it's not perfect. Arthritis, football injuries, partners and occasional lapses of judgement can create less than perfect manual gear changes. The brain is a bit like a computer I suppose. And some people's bodies, if they're anything like mine, work like they were built in a Peugot factory.

Bloody hell I'll be writing Zen and the Art of Gear Changing next!


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## AidenL (Nov 29, 2006)

No definitive conclusion here then ! 

I need a test drive of the DSG it seems


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## Philr (Oct 10, 2006)

I am also unsure what to go for. The S Tronic looks interesting but the occaisional hesitancy issue concerns me.

If it only shows up under certain circumstances then a test drive may not show it - or I suppose its full potential.

I assume it takes a while to get used to, and is it 'easy' to swop between Stronic and manual cars?


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

I drive both car's, manual as s-tronic, so does my wife.
It's very easy.

Also if you never drove a automat, you will now it in 2 minutes how to use your left foot.

The hesitancy issue , was indeed in the early mk1's, but the newer types with DSG have new software. I never noticed it.

But it's better if you don't take a testdrive with a DSG-model.......because it will cost you extra money when you are going to order your new car.
Once you felt it, you just wanne have it.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

I haven't had any problems with the box hesitating and my my wife loves the S-Tronic .It is so much easier in stop start traffic and if you want a manual just push the stick to the left and change gear yourself.


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## AidenL (Nov 29, 2006)

Living here in Ireland, its hard to find one of each car to test drive 

From my point of view, I don't like in an urban area, its pretty much in the sticks, and the roads are clear the majority of the time.

Would it be fair to say that you guys who prefer DSG live pretty much in heavily urbanised areas? I guess what I'm asking is, do you prefer DSG for the ease of progress it gives you in stop start traffic, or for any perceived performance gains while going for a blast on an open road?


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

No, i bought the DSG because it's big fun changing gear's that fast an simple as DSG.
There is no system who can do it faster.
It's a pitty you can't test it over there in ireland, because than you would understand.
Just ask a VW dealer for a testdrive in a golf GTI with DSG or any other DSG car.


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## Speed Racer (May 21, 2006)

As far as hesitancy, Audi engineers have made assumptions in that operators understand certain driving dynamics when using DSG. The system is designed to interpret your inputs. For example, if you lift (throttle) it anticpates that you may want to downshift so it prepares for that. Downshifts need to be made off throttle for quickness/smoothness. If you are still using throttle during downshifting, the DSG hasn't prepared for the shift and will do it more sluggishly. Same as a standard gearbox in that you don't keep throttle applied when you engage the clutch and downshift. As for upshifts, the DSG system anticipates those too by throttle position and acceleration so it pre-selects the next gear. While still under load, the shifts are ultra quick and precise.

It's not for everyone. It you don't understand how all this correlates, and have certain mechanical mental blocks that keeps this from becoming intuitive, then stick with other transmission types. But if you want better control during aggressive driving, or just want to perform Michael Schumacher imitations, then this box is for you. The DSG's real advantage is shifting under load, shifting during corners (short shifting to keep building revs when the corner is too tight to hold the gear with the throttle planted), and downshifting while hard braking. None of the preceeding can be done by a manual transmission with the accuracy, precision, and consistency of DSG...especially shifting during corners, which upsets handling on traditional manual boxes. DSG saves gas too!


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Speed Racer said:


> As far as hesitancy, Audi engineers have made assumptions in that operators understand certain driving dynamics when using DSG. The system is designed to interpret your inputs. For example, if you lift (throttle) it anticpates that you may want to downshift so it prepares for that. Downshifts need to be made off throttle for quickness/smoothness. If you are still using throttle during downshifting, the DSG hasn't prepared for the shift and will do it more sluggishly. Same as a standard gearbox in that you don't keep throttle applied when you engage the clutch and downshift. As for upshifts, the DSG system anticipates those too by throttle position and acceleration so it pre-selects the next gear. While still under load, the shifts are ultra quick and precise.
> 
> It's not for everyone. It you don't understand how all this correlates, and have certain mechanical mental blocks that keeps this from becoming intuitive, then stick with other transmission types. But if you want better control during aggressive driving, or just want to perform Michael Schumacher imitations, then this box is for you. The DSG's real advantage is shifting under load, shifting during corners (short shifting to keep building revs when the corner is too tight to hold the gear with the throttle planted), and downshifting while hard braking. None of the preceeding can be done by a manual transmission with the accuracy, precision, and consistency of DSG...especially shifting during corners, which upsets handling on traditional manual boxes. DSG saves gas too!


couldn't say it better. my english is too bad, so i didn't try to go in technical details, but you gave the best answere what's DSG al's abouth, thx


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## AidenL (Nov 29, 2006)

Rebel said:


> No, i bought the DSG because it's big fun changing gear's that fast an simple as DSG.
> There is no system who can do it faster.
> It's a pitty you can't test it over there in ireland, because than you would understand.
> Just ask a VW dealer for a testdrive in a golf GTI with DSG or any other DSG car.


I was thinking a Golf GTi drive might give me a taste alright


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## AidenL (Nov 29, 2006)

Speed Racer said:


> As far as hesitancy, Audi engineers have made assumptions in that operators understand certain driving dynamics when using DSG. The system is designed to interpret your inputs. For example, if you lift (throttle) it anticpates that you may want to downshift so it prepares for that. Downshifts need to be made off throttle for quickness/smoothness. If you are still using throttle during downshifting, the DSG hasn't prepared for the shift and will do it more sluggishly. Same as a standard gearbox in that you don't keep throttle applied when you engage the clutch and downshift. As for upshifts, the DSG system anticipates those too by throttle position and acceleration so it pre-selects the next gear. While still under load, the shifts are ultra quick and precise.
> 
> It's not for everyone. It you don't understand how all this correlates, and have certain mechanical mental blocks that keeps this from becoming intuitive, then stick with other transmission types. But if you want better control during aggressive driving, or just want to perform Michael Schumacher imitations, then this box is for you. The DSG's real advantage is shifting under load, shifting during corners (short shifting to keep building revs when the corner is too tight to hold the gear with the throttle planted), and downshifting while hard braking. None of the preceeding can be done by a manual transmission with the accuracy, precision, and consistency of DSG...especially shifting during corners, which upsets handling on traditional manual boxes. DSG saves gas too!


Thats a great explanation actually, thank you 

So regarding upchanging on corners, due to the seamlessness of the changes, theres actually no handling instability generated, nor unsettling of the car, while changing mid-corner while under full or steady part-throttle?

It seems like a great system taking this into account.

I did read about slight hesitancy while taking off from junctions / roundabouts - has this been alleviated by new software upgraedes did someone mention?


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## vagman (Sep 6, 2002)

Speed Racer said:


> As far as hesitancy, Audi engineers have made assumptions in that operators understand certain driving dynamics when using DSG. The system is designed to interpret your inputs. For example, if you lift (throttle) it anticpates that you may want to downshift so it prepares for that. Downshifts need to be made off throttle for quickness/smoothness. If you are still using throttle during downshifting, the DSG hasn't prepared for the shift and will do it more sluggishly. Same as a standard gearbox in that you don't keep throttle applied when you engage the clutch and downshift. As for upshifts, the DSG system anticipates those too by throttle position and acceleration so it pre-selects the next gear. While still under load, the shifts are ultra quick and precise.
> 
> It's not for everyone. It you don't understand how all this correlates, and have certain mechanical mental blocks that keeps this from becoming intuitive, then stick with other transmission types. But if you want better control during aggressive driving, or just want to perform Michael Schumacher imitations, then this box is for you. The DSG's real advantage is shifting under load, shifting during corners (short shifting to keep building revs when the corner is too tight to hold the gear with the throttle planted), and downshifting while hard braking. None of the preceeding can be done by a manual transmission with the accuracy, precision, and consistency of DSG...especially shifting during corners, which upsets handling on traditional manual boxes. DSG saves gas too!


Probably the best summary of DSG that I have read. 

I've had two TTs and an A3SB with DSG and couldn't imagine ever wanting to drive a manual again.


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## markrbooth (Sep 25, 2006)

AidenL said:


> I did read about slight hesitancy while taking off from junctions / roundabouts - has this been alleviated by new software upgraedes did someone mention?


On a 2006 Mk V Golf Gti DSG, not in my opinion. You sometimes feel embarrassed when you go for a quick gap on a roundabout and force someone to brake but I couldn't fault it otherwise. Oh except standard D mode shifting up mid corner making you go too fast only to have to downshift exiting a corner. But D mode is basically just a very smooth normal auto box... imo.


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## AidenL (Nov 29, 2006)

markrbooth said:


> AidenL said:
> 
> 
> > I did read about slight hesitancy while taking off from junctions / roundabouts - has this been alleviated by new software upgraedes did someone mention?
> ...


Hmm, that hesitation would put me off going for it - I guess in some ways that sluggishness on take off is potentially dangerous? :?


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## DonaldC (May 7, 2002)

Some roundabouts and junctions will always present a problem in heavy traffic - all you need to do is pop it into 'S' mode which is easy and quick to do and you'll be okay and when you've cleared the junction pop it back into 'D' mode for comfort. I find it easy, fast and intuitive! No problems.

DSG is amazing!

Cheers
donald


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## 04DTT (Apr 7, 2006)

AidenL, i am based in ireland and have driven the TT both with and without Stronic and for me the Stronic is the better option. You get the best of both worlds, full auto for the traffic clogged roads (M50  )and full manual control for backroad blasts. I also took a Stronic TT around mondello racing circuit. The gearbox down shifted when when braking into the corners and using the s mode the gearbox didnt change up until you hit the redline.The steering wheel paddles are also very easy to use. I ordered it on my TT which i am picking up on Friday. For what it is worth, according to my salesman about 50% of their TT orders are for Stronic equipped TT's.

Regards,

04DTT


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## AidenL (Nov 29, 2006)

04DTT said:


> AidenL, i am based in ireland and have driven the TT both with and without Stronic and for me the Stronic is the better option. You get the best of both worlds, full auto for the traffic clogged roads (M50  )and full manual control for backroad blasts. I also took a Stronic TT around mondello racing circuit. The gearbox down shifted when when braking into the corners and using the s mode the gearbox didnt change up until you hit the redline.The steering wheel paddles are also very easy to use. I ordered it on my TT which i am picking up on Friday. For what it is worth, according to my salesman about 50% of their TT orders are for Stronic equipped TT's.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 04DTT


Thanks for that  You in Dublin I presume? Where are you buying if you don't mind me asking - I took a look in Park Motors last week on my way through town


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## AidenL (Nov 29, 2006)

DonaldC said:


> Some roundabouts and junctions will always present a problem in heavy traffic - all you need to do is pop it into 'S' mode which is easy and quick to do and you'll be okay and when you've cleared the junction pop it back into 'D' mode for comfort. I find it easy, fast and intuitive! No problems.
> 
> DSG is amazing!
> 
> ...


Just press the S button? 

Celtic will put up a good showing Donald, as usual  Re: your New Year PS comment !


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## 04DTT (Apr 7, 2006)

Based in Ennis, Co Clare but i bought the car in Grange Motors, Deansgrange, Co Dublin. Excellent dealership to deal with. Bought my current TT of them 2 years ago as well. They have a different attitude to the dealers down my neck of the woods. They are grateful for the business not look some Audi dealers i can think of. Would highly recommend them. Ask for Simon.

Quite a few Irish owners on this forum. We should all meet up sometime.

Regards,

04dtt


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## AidenL (Nov 29, 2006)

04DTT said:


> Based in Ennis, Co Clare but i bought the car in Grange Motors, Deansgrange, Co Dublin. Excellent dealership to deal with. Bought my current TT of them 2 years ago as well. They have a different attitude to the dealers down my neck of the woods. They are grateful for the business not look some Audi dealers i can think of. Would highly recommend them. Ask for Simon.
> 
> Quite a few Irish owners on this forum. We should all meet up sometime.
> 
> ...


I'm gonna shop around a bit, I may well give your man a call 

A meet / run would be good - nice roads through the Burren, up towards Mayo, a weekend run would be good


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## Steev (Dec 28, 2006)

Apologies if this has been mentioned, I have read the thread but may have missed it.

Is the DSG drivable on an Automatic driving license? I was under the impression it was pretty much an auto, but it seems there is a bit more to it than that?


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## cuTTsy (Jan 31, 2003)

I had one of the first DSG TT's and we now have a 2.0T A3 with S-tronic.

The TT had problems and eventually had the gearbox replaced and yes it was hesitant at times, but the latest version of DSG doesn't hesitate like the older one.

It is fantastic and I would recommend it every time.


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## Calibos (Mar 28, 2004)

04DTT said:


> Based in Ennis, Co Clare but i bought the car in Grange Motors, Deansgrange, Co Dublin. Excellent dealership to deal with. Bought my current TT of them 2 years ago as well. They have a different attitude to the dealers down my neck of the woods. They are grateful for the business not look some Audi dealers i can think of. Would highly recommend them. Ask for Simon.
> 
> Quite a few Irish owners on this forum. We should all meet up sometime.
> 
> ...


Can back up everything 04dtt said about Grange. Got my 04 A3 from them in....eh 04  and ordered a TT from them in October. My salesman was Jim Carey. So now you have two names to drop AidenL.

So you're getting your car on Friday 04dtt? When did you order in Grange. I ordered on 25th October and was initially told I would deffo have the car first week in January. Last time I checked though my build week had moved to week 5 (Week beginning 29th Jan) so delivery would then probably be second or third week of February. Just wondering whether you ordered before or after me.

On a sidenote theres another guy that comes into our newsagents who I chat with about cars. He got his GTI at the same time as I got my A3. He was in the other day and didn't see my A3 outside and jokingly asked whether I had sold it. "As a matter of fact", I said, "I am. I'm getting a new TT". "Your joking", says he, "So am I. I pick up my Condor 2.0T next week! I fell in love with the colour at the TT launch in the Four Seasons". "Your Joking!" says I, "I went to the launch too!"

Missed each other by about 5 minutes.

He's ordered from Fosters though God love 'im.

We'll all deffo have to go to an Irish TTOC meet sometime. Guess I'll have to join the TTOC first though! 

Oh and just so this post isn't totally off topic.....I *haven't* ordered S-Tronic 

And AidenL, just speeced up a car on the audi.ie site according to your spec list.....

â‚¬72,000!!!!

Feck me!!

Isn't Irish Road Tax for a 3 litre going up to â‚¬1500 a year now? And insurance on a 3.2!!

You must be minted!


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## welllam (Dec 28, 2006)

Choosing between DSG and manual really depends on how much control do you want to have when you are driving. There are things DSG cannot do, such as double clutching, heel and toe etc. DSG is good when you want to drive simply fast without using your other hand and foot. If you want fun and full control of your car, manual is the way to go.

I think the debate is whether you are lazy enough to bother changing gears with a clutch.


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## 04DTT (Apr 7, 2006)

Hi Calibos,

Initially placed a provisional order when the TT was launched in Berlin for delivery in Jan 07. Confirmed and specced up my car on the day of the TT launch at the Four Seasons in Dublin (28th September). My car is in Ireland currently undergoing PDI. As far as i know it will be the first TT out of Grange in 2007! The car i am getting is the 2.0TFSI S tronic in Silver with Magma extended leather, extended Aluminium pack, Heated seats, Bose, i pod integration, Bluetooth phone prep, M/F steering wheel, cruise contol and 18" turbine alloys. I also have a miltek quad exhaust on order which will be fitted on the 13th Jan.

Have to organise that meet when we all get our TT's!!

Regards,

04dtt


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## AidenL (Nov 29, 2006)

Calibos said:


> 04DTT said:
> 
> 
> > Based in Ennis, Co Clare but i bought the car in Grange Motors, Deansgrange, Co Dublin. Excellent dealership to deal with. Bought my current TT of them 2 years ago as well. They have a different attitude to the dealers down my neck of the woods. They are grateful for the business not look some Audi dealers i can think of. Would highly recommend them. Ask for Simon.
> ...


  I'd say it will be well into the seventies alright - I was thinking of a Z4 M beforehand 

I'll get in touch with Grange this week, see what delivery is like 

I think the new tax thing is coming alright, but not straight away, ist 1300 at the mo anyway


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## TTRTWO (Dec 9, 2006)

An interesting thread.

There is no right answer to this one. I am buying a manual TTR as a fun car which will see little urban use. If I lived in a city then I would probably choose differently.

I am a bit concerned about the comments on gear shifts mid corner as I was always taught not to change gear with any appreciable steering lock on. Ditto the comment on roundabouts. My daily driver (an A8 with tiptronic) is great at fast easy starts but only really falls down (apart from changing gear mid corner if I don't balance the throttle) when exiting T junctions in a hurry. I will select about a third/half throttle so as not to slide over the road and then full throttle once straightened up but by then the box has gone up to 2nd whereas in a manual car I would still be in 1st to get a faster getaway; does S Tronic do this?


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## pbarlow003 (Aug 11, 2005)

If you are in "manual" mode in STronic, it won't change unless you tell it to (unless you drop the revs to about 600 i.e. coming to a stop, or hit the rev limiter on the way up  )


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## AidenL (Nov 29, 2006)

Whats the essential advantage over a good Tiptronic style automatic gearbox though aside from the speed of manual changes? :?


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## pbarlow003 (Aug 11, 2005)

I had a DSG TT for a year and it was fine, but i doubt i'd buy another one, although its hard to put my finger on exactly why.

I've only very briefly driven a multitronic, i think it was in a 2.0T A4 cabriolet, and the gear changes felt very sluggish compared to the DSG. As far as i know, the multitronic doesn't allow a true "manual" mode, so would still change gears when it felt necessary, the DSG will only change when it has to, i.e. at 600 revs when stopping, or when you bounce it off the rev limiter, it will (sensibly) change up.

One thing i will say, if you're not a great driver (I'm definitely not!!!) you'll probably go faster with a STronic than a manual, but if you are fairly skilled, you'd probably miss the extra input of changing gears manually.

Just in my opinion though!!
Paul


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## Speed Racer (May 21, 2006)

AidenL said:


> Whats the essential advantage over a good Tiptronic style automatic gearbox though aside from the speed of manual changes? :?


DSG won't absorb power output like a slushbox. It's a sequential manual transmission for all practical purpose. Autos transmit less power to the wheels than manual boxes, which is one reason gearheads prefer manuals (prior to DSG).

Here's some info:

http://www.audiclubna.org/content/view/43/115/


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## AidenL (Nov 29, 2006)

Speed Racer said:


> AidenL said:
> 
> 
> > Whats the essential advantage over a good Tiptronic style automatic gearbox though aside from the speed of manual changes? :?
> ...


Thanks for that , good reading there


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

AidenL said:


> Whats the essential advantage over a good Tiptronic style automatic gearbox though aside from the speed of manual changes? :?


There are only really two bad things on an automatic 'box -

- Speed of changes (enough said already)
- The torque converter

A conventional auto gearbox still makes it feel like the engine and the wheels are slightly detached from one another - although all modern 'boxes can lock the torque converter in every gear, there is still a moment of "slushi-ness" whilst changing gear and until the transmission locks-up.

The steptronic on the BMW 335i and 335d is newly updated, and probably the best auto 'box you can get. The Merc 7G-tronic is pretty good too. Both of these 'boxes lock up as quickly as possible once the change is made, and have decent manual modes. All other auto 'boxes are 

You should get S-tronic


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## vagman (Sep 6, 2002)

Wondermikie said:


> The steptronic on the BMW 335i and 335d is newly updated, and probably the best auto 'box you can get. The Merc 7G-tronic is pretty good too. Both of these 'boxes lock up as quickly as possible once the change is made, and have decent manual modes. All other auto 'boxes are
> 
> You should get S-tronic


I take it that you are not trying to say that the BMW auto is better than S-Tronic. :?

As far as the Merc 7G is concerned, I owned a SLK350 with 7G and whilst it was good for an automatic, it was not a patch on S-Tronic, not by a long way.


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

vagman said:


> I take it that you are not trying to say that the BMW auto is better than S-Tronic. :?
> 
> As far as the Merc 7G is concerned, I owned a SLK350 with 7G and whilst it was good for an automatic, it was not a patch on S-Tronic, not by a long way.


No way :lol: Just saying that they are the best conventional autoboxes, S-tronic rules


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## emc3 (Jan 9, 2007)

And what about gas and brake consumption S-tronic vs manual?

1. Do you really experienced less gas consumption?
The mechanic of my Audi dealer told me that is need more gas!

2. And about brake consumption?
3. And brake distances? Are longer?

4. And if you drive down hills and mountains?
5. And if you go in a road with many turns?
6. And with snow?
7. And what about the need, I read here, to stop and restart the car in same situation about 1st gear?
8. And what about cruise-control and S-Tronic? In emergency situation maybe difficult or impossible to stop the car?

Thanks!


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

I think the answers to your question is simple.

First of all the S-tronic do use a little less gas than a manual transmission.

And when you use the "manual" function on the S-tronic it works more or less excactly the same way as a manual transmision would do - except it shifts quicker.....and you don't have to operate a clutch.

Wich should answere most of your questions 8)

But the one thing you can't do is push down the cluch to disangage when losing grip downhill in snow or ice.

But offcourse - you can push the stick to neutral in stead....I would think :?


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## emc3 (Jan 9, 2007)

Arne said:


> I think the answers to your question is simple.
> 
> First of all the S-tronic do use a little less gas than a manual transmission.
> 
> ...


Really does it use less gas?
Also in S mode?

And about all the other questions?

- About... DSG kept doing odd things like not changing out of first gear, so driving down a road i'd have to stop and restart the engine to reset it!?!

What does it mean?

- And about brake consumption? 
- And brake distances? Are longer? 
- And if you drive down hills and mountains? 
- And what about cruise-control and S-Tronic? In emergency situation maybe difficult or impossible to stop the car?


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## fsm (Dec 17, 2003)

emc3 said:


> Really does it use less gas?
> Also in S mode?
> 
> - About... DSG kept doing odd things like not changing out of first gear, so driving down a road i'd have to stop and restart the engine to reset it!?!


"S" mode, you're going to use more petrol (gas) because you're going to be ragging the arse off the engine. 

The DSG problem which you describe was exactly the same problem I had with my DSG. However, I took it to the dealer and they said they'd see if there was a software upgrade. I don't know if it worked because I bought a QS that very same day. There are plenty forum members who say there is no such thing as a software upgrade for the DSG, but others do.


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

emc3 said:


> Arne said:
> 
> 
> > I think the answers to your question is simple.
> ...


The fuelconsumption is always depending on the way you drive. With S-tronic you have different modes you can select. Automatic is the one that give you the lowest fuel consumtion for "normal" driving - and less than what you can manage with a manual transmision.

When put in "manual" it's all up to you - how you drive and when you choose to shift gears.

In sport mode - it's just that. It is ment for sporty driving and NOT for low fuel consumtion. Just the same as for you to choose to shift late (rev high) with a manual transmission.

So I am a little confused by your questions? What kind of answeres are you looking for? Is't all this plain obvious?

I think Audi has sorted out the initial trouble they had with the "old" DSG. Thats probabely why they renamned it to S-tronic 8)

- The brake consumption will be the same, because it will use the engine to slow down the car in the same way as manual (DSG / S-tronic is NOT an automatic gearbox in traditional way).
- No reasons for why brake distances should be any longer.
- Downhill and mountains it will work the same way as a manual gearbox if you choose "manual" settings if you need the engine brake (and I am not 100% shure, but I also think it will brake with the engine in automatic mode as well).
- As soon as you touch the brake the cruise-control is disangaged (excactly the same that happens when you take your foot off the accelerator in a manual driven car).


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## Speed Racer (May 21, 2006)

The reason DSG uses less gas is becuase power is not interupted during acceleration (no matter normal or hard driving). It's the disruption of power and reapplication of power during the shift sequence that consumes more gas.

As for another benefit of DSG not already stated, you can't overrev the motor. A guy from my home town recently missed an upshift in his manual 225 and completey blew the motor (to the tune of about $6000 out-of-pocket) when it massively overrev'd.

And yet another benefit not previously stated is that you can't overrev the motor during downshifts under hard deceleration/braking. The system knows if a downshift would cause an overrev so it won't perform the shift. Which means you can be liberal on the left paddle while downshifting so the point of the downshift is optimized. This in affect will reduce stopping distances and allow later braking and an easier transition to power.

People that think the only difference between the two boxes is that DSG is for people too lazy to shift manually are retarded.

Bottomline is that DSG is for serious gearheads that want to reduce lap times, or simply have better control of the car during aggressive driving. If manual transmissions offered more or better control, they would still be in use in F1...which they're not.


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

It is a very good reason for why they use some kind of "DSG" transmisions in many different races - inkluding F1.

And the reasons for why it is not used in more or less every kind of car racing, is that it is not allowed - because of the benefits it gives.... :wink:


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## KevtoTTy (Aug 24, 2004)

Speed Racer said:


> The reason DSG uses less gas is becuase power is not interupted during acceleration (no matter normal or hard driving). It's the disruption of power and reapplication of power during the shift sequence that consumes more gas.
> 
> As for another benefit of DSG not already stated, you can't overrev the motor. A guy from my home town recently missed an upshift in his manual 225 and completey blew the motor (to the tune of about $6000 out-of-pocket) when it massively overrev'd.
> 
> ...


.....basically what Speed Racer said........ DSG rocks!


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## emc3 (Jan 9, 2007)

Many many thanks for your kind replies.

You're all great!

And what about parking with S-Tronic?
When you need only little motion?


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## Johnnywb (May 31, 2006)

I tried it on the 3.2 i test drove and i liked it, but i didn't like the fact that even in manual mode, it will still change up by the redline automatically. Generally this is fine, but sometimes i found it annoying if i was holding off a gear change for a couple fo seconds for a corner or something.

The other thing that annoyed me was in my view, the + and - on the stick were the wrong way round, my instinct is to pull back to change up and push forward to change down, but it's the wrong way round? Not a huge problem, just irritating!


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## Speed Racer (May 21, 2006)

Johnnywb said:


> I tried it on the 3.2 i test drove and i liked it, but i didn't like the fact that even in manual mode, it will still change up by the redline automatically. Generally this is fine, but sometimes i found it annoying if i was holding off a gear change for a couple fo seconds for a corner or something.


I would think most people would prefer a rev limiter instead of the auto upshift, but manual cars don't have a rev limiter either, and overreving a manual box can have disastrous results to the box and/or motor. Ultimately you have to feel where the power is and use your right foot to keep it from hitting the rev that signals the shift, and I've yet to get into a situation that had me wanting to hold the revs at redline. In fact, at redline, the power curves aren't at their peak, so I can't see what the point in that is. Again though, a rev limiter would be nice as it would signal the need to shift. Also a bright LED to signal you're within 500 rpm of the auto upshift would do the trick also. But unlike a manual shifter, even if the DSG box upshifted unexpectedly during a corner it wouldn't upset the balance of the car (like an upshift in a manual does in a corner due to the sudden interruption of power).

What were you doing at redline in a new car anyway? Redlining a new car, whether I owned it or not, is something I wouldn't do.


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## Speed Racer (May 21, 2006)

Johnnywb said:


> The other thing that annoyed me was in my view, the + and - on the stick were the wrong way round, my instinct is to pull back to change up and push forward to change down, but it's the wrong way round? Not a huge problem, just irritating!


BMW use to be this way on their Steptronic autos a few years ago. Now they are reversed to what you like. I guess no one can decide which is best. I agree that it should be the other way around, but I never use it anyway unless I'm at a healthy steering lock with the paddles hard to locate.


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## Bryn (Feb 12, 2004)

Strangely I never thought in a million years I would agree with anything Speedracer said but on this occasion I do - STronic is brilliant [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## emc3 (Jan 9, 2007)

And what about parking with S-Tronic? 
When you need only little motion?


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## Speed Racer (May 21, 2006)

emc3 said:


> And what about parking with S-Tronic?
> When you need only little motion?


As soon as you put it in Drive or Reverse, it'll start to roll as soon as you lift the brake (like an auto box). There's no hesitation...it doesn't wait for throttle input to begin motion. You do have to wait a millisecond after putting it into D or R before kicking in the throttle. Same with an auto really though.

It's an interesting debate about the perceived hesitation on aggressive start offs (like jumping out in front of traffic). When you release the brake and hit the throttle there's a very slight hesitation while the clutch does its thing. Same would apply to a manual as you're disengaging the clutch. Only difference is that you're on the gas and you develop a feel for when it bites, so no real awkward perceived feeling. In actuality your other senses are helping, such as sound. If you couldn't hear, you would lose the sense of what your manual car needed as you dumped the clutch. Feel doesn't get you there alone. With DSG, you don't need extra senses, just drop the throttle pedal and it goes...consistently...every time. I haven't experiemented, but I'm wondering if you held the handbrake slightly (or kept pressure on the footbrake) and put a little load on the motor if it would lessen the hesitation when you simultaneously release the brake and depress the throttle?


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## emc3 (Jan 9, 2007)

...so no problems in parking...

No problem to jump and crash the car in fornt of you...


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## Speed Racer (May 21, 2006)

emc3 said:


> ...so no problems in parking...
> 
> No problem to jump and crash the car in fornt of you...


I haven't had any issues in 7,000 miles (very aggressive use and multiple trips to the Nurburgring). I love it. I wouldn't buy a TT without it, or Quattro for that fact. It's a shame you can't yet get DSG on the A4 or S4. I can kinda understand the A4 as it's marketed predominantly to non-agressive driver types, but the S4 needs it!


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## emc3 (Jan 9, 2007)

For A4 it depends for the position of the engine.

But next generation of DSG will fit also for that position of engine.

I think of having read something about that.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

I can't see myself going back to a manual its just so easy ,and then when you want it to bw quick WOOSH. I tend to flick it down a gear with the paddles approaching a roundabout though just so I know where I am.


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## Philr (Oct 10, 2006)

do the paddles work in manual mode only, I presume so?


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Philr said:


> do the paddles work in manual mode only, I presume so?


No they work in all modes, in D it switches back to D after about 13 seconds (roughly).


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## Philr (Oct 10, 2006)

This option is (I think) the only deciding issue I am mulling over, the fact that the paddles can make a difference as you describe is a big advantage - it should overcome some of the potential shortcomings that are occasionally described.

I think I need a months test drive before finally deciding!


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## T3 (Sep 24, 2006)

not sure what was wrong with metioning that ferrari uses a very similar system but anyway... On that point, the reality is that double clutch systems and E gear type systems are the future of transmission. I've said this before and made the comparison to any other previous development, that was 10 or 20 years ago said to be " not pure" and " took away the direct control"... I mean, thats exacly what they said about power steering 20 odd years ago.. Point is, Audi is leading the way sort of.Porsche is about to lauch a similar system, along with BM, lexus, to name a few. Sure theres more..

Its a progression. An advance, moving forward... Argue as you like. Things like mag ride and Stronic will be common in 10 years, and the "purists" who say manual is still better and more involving will be no more right or wrong than the purists 20 years ago talking about power steering.


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## TTRTWO (Dec 9, 2006)

T3 said:


> not sure what was wrong with metioning that ferrari uses a very similar system but anyway... On that point, the reality is that double clutch systems and E gear type systems are the future of transmission. I've said this before and made the comparison to any other previous development, that was 10 or 20 years ago said to be " not pure" and " took away the direct control"... I mean, thats exacly what they said about power steering 20 odd years ago.. Point is, Audi is leading the way sort of.Porsche is about to lauch a similar system, along with BM, lexus, to name a few. Sure theres more..
> 
> Its a progression. An advance, moving forward... Argue as you like. Things like mag ride and Stronic will be common in 10 years, and the "purists" who say manual is still better and more involving will be no more right or wrong than the purists 20 years ago talking about power steering.


You are right. DSG is not for me now but in 5-10 years time I expect all powerful cars to be geared this way.

MR I am taking as I have experienced ABC on Mercs and PASM on Porkies and they are outstanding. I know that they both work differently to MR but the point is that for sports cars, adaptive suspension of some form is the way forward.


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## Philr (Oct 10, 2006)

http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... highlight=


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## emc3 (Jan 9, 2007)

That makes me think again if to order it or not!

Other questions:

1. if I am in D, can I change in S (or vice versa), also if I am moving at whatever speed slow or fast?

2. can I go in D or S and correct manually istantly just tipping the paddles?

3. start smootly, slow speed, is a problem with S-Tronic?

4. starting on uphill or downhill? And with snow?

5. sometimes I see written ECU, what is it?


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

emc3 said:


> That makes me think again if to order it or not!
> 
> Other questions:
> 
> ...


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## emc3 (Jan 9, 2007)

Rebel said:


> emc3 said:
> 
> 
> > That makes me think again if to order it or not!
> ...


Many thanks!

And what about http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... highlight=


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## Philr (Oct 10, 2006)

Why does S Tronic make a big difference in CO2 emissions on the 3.2 but no difference on the 2.0 T?


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## emc3 (Jan 9, 2007)

I have ordered yesterday my TT!

2.0 TFSI with S tronic.

I have only a great doubt.

Will be more difficult to park the car?

How will I be able to do all that minimal movement usally we do modulating clutch?

Is it possible to do little minimal movement and modulation without the clutch?

And up or down an hill?


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## loic (Nov 14, 2006)

emc3 said:


> Will be more difficult to park the car?
> 
> How will I be able to do all that minimal movement usally we do modulating clutch?
> 
> ...


Modulate your speed using the brake pedal - the car will 'creep' when in 'D' at tickover...


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## emc3 (Jan 9, 2007)

loic said:


> emc3 said:
> 
> 
> > Will be more difficult to park the car?
> ...


When you use the brake pedal parking, do you use both feet, one for brake one for accelerator?
Only parking two feet.

Or do you use only one foot?

Thank you!


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## loic (Nov 14, 2006)

emc3 said:


> When you use the brake pedal parking, do you use both feet, one for brake one for accelerator?
> Only parking two feet.
> 
> Or do you use only one foot?
> ...


Just use your right foot if letting the car move on tickover in 'D'.

Brake with your left foot if you need to apply more gas.

If you've only ever driven cars with manual transmission, it'll seem strange at first but you'll very soon get used to it.


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## emc3 (Jan 9, 2007)

Many thanks!

I hope to learn.

I will receive my car in 60/80 days.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

loic said:


> emc3 said:
> 
> 
> > When you use the brake pedal parking, do you use both feet, one for brake one for accelerator?
> ...


I dont think the fly by wire throttle in a TT will let you left foot brake


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## loic (Nov 14, 2006)

wallsendmag said:


> I dont think the fly by wire throttle in a TT will let you left foot brake


It'll be fine at parking speeds - it just cuts the throttle inputs, right?

Shouldn't be too tricky to balance throttle and brake at these speeds??


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## emc3 (Jan 9, 2007)

So do you think is it possible parking using right and left feet?


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## loic (Nov 14, 2006)

emc3 said:


> So do you think is it possible parking using right and left feet?


I'll let you know on Friday :wink:

It certainly works fine with an A4 Tiptronic......


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## emc3 (Jan 9, 2007)

loic said:


> emc3 said:
> 
> 
> > So do you think is it possible parking using right and left feet?
> ...


Thank you very much!

See you on Friday!


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

You can't do "heel-toe" in the MK2... :?

When you push the brake , the throttle won't response.....
Like wallsendmag said, drive by wire won't aloow this on the TT


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## QuackingPlums (Mar 10, 2004)

Rebel said:


> You can't do "heel-toe" in the MK2... :?


Why would you need to in an S-Tronic car, other than maybe because you're used to doing the movement with your feet? 
With the smooth power delivery between gears (not to mention lack of clutch pedal!) there's no need to blip the throttle between changes whilst simultaneously applying the brakes!


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## emc3 (Jan 9, 2007)

QuackingPlums said:


> Rebel said:
> 
> 
> > You can't do "heel-toe" in the MK2... :?
> ...


Maybe could be usefull when you park?


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## emc3 (Jan 9, 2007)

loic said:


> emc3 said:
> 
> 
> > So do you think is it possible parking using right and left feet?
> ...


Hi!

Could you tried it?


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## loic (Nov 14, 2006)

emc3 said:


> loic said:
> 
> 
> > emc3 said:
> ...


It works perfectly for parking, I haven't tried low-speed manouevres on a hill yet. On tickover the car has enough 'creep' to make parking easy using the brake alone.


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## emc3 (Jan 9, 2007)

Thank you!

Very well!!!


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