# jealousy of cars



## maryanne1986 (Apr 8, 2013)

anyone come into contact with people who seem to be jealous of the cars you own?

reason i ask is because a few people seem to have a permanent chip on their shoulder since i bought the car, constant negativity and bitterness... not my fault if they choose to invest in other things in the place of buying a nice car :/
i realise some people cannot afford to buy nice cars because of commitments and children, but why be bitter??

does anyone else have experience with this or are the people i know just a bunch of jealous cretins 

dosnt have to be a TT just curious :x [smiley=argue.gif] [smiley=argue.gif] [smiley=argue.gif] :evil:


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

The Mk1 TT is a sub-£5k car now. Most people who own a car have spent more than that on it, so I doubt there is any jealousy there.

It's a common theme on car forums though. Someone cut me up? Jealous. Someone wouldn't let me out of the junction? Jealous. Someone keyed my car? Jealous. To be honest, I think it's just people putting a positive slant on a negative situation. Someone says something bad about you or the car you love and your subconscious gives you a little ego boost by interpreting it as jealousy.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Spandex said:


> The Mk1 TT is a sub-£5k car now. Most people who own a car have spent more than that on it, so I doubt there is any jealousy there.
> 
> It's a common theme on car forums though. Someone cut me up? Jealous. Someone wouldn't let me out of the junction? Jealous. Someone keyed my car? Jealous. To be honest, I think it's just people putting a positive slant on a negative situation. Someone says something bad about you or the car you love and your subconscious gives you a little ego boost by interpreting it as jealousy.


i agree spandy somewhat bud, but to a lot of people the perception of someone having a tt mk1 or 2 is that they must be well off still. for instance when i had mine i could not drive it to a clients house for a site visit as i never won a single contract. however i turn up in the passat and have a fair chance of getting it. we know it is now a cheap car to buy and yet joe bloggs that doesn't or hasn't owned a good quality car in their life still have that perception. of course accidents happen in life and scrotes are scrotes no matter where they live in life. i have seen half decent looking cars damaged in a street when all other household cars got left alone.......so it probably is a little bit of both i think.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Gazzer said:


> i agree spandy somewhat bud, but to a lot of people the perception of someone having a tt mk1 or 2 is that they must be well off still. for instance when i had mine i could not drive it to a clients house for a site visit as i never won a single contract. however i turn up in the passat and have a fair chance of getting it. we know it is now a cheap car to buy and yet joe bloggs that doesn't or hasn't owned a good quality car in their life still have that perception. of course accidents happen in life and scrotes are scrotes no matter where they live in life. i have seen half decent looking cars damaged in a street when all other household cars got left alone.......so it probably is a little bit of both i think.


And I've seen knackered old cars get keyed while decent ones are ignored.

To be honest, the usual reason people with expensive things get slated (lets pretend people think the TT is expensive) is because there's a perception that they're showing off and that they think they're superior to other people, so the natural reaction is to try to bring them down a peg or two. It's annoyance (possibly not justified), rather than jealousy.

The way the OP has commented in other threads, I wouldn't be surprised if she's given people the impression that she thinks her car is better than others and this has rubbed them up the wrong way.


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## t'mill (Jul 31, 2012)

People who aren't into cars think TT's are very expensive. I have a p/plate on mine and 2 people have thought it was brand new. Which means they must think it was easily over 20k. Others have guessed the value of mine at 10k. It cost me under 4. Folk defo do they they're posher than they actually are.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Ok another side to it from my point of view, I only ever really felt comfy driving the TT when I was attending meets as it is an iconic car the I didn't think was my style maybe. However the mx5 I love driving for many reasons and also feel at home in 
(Shabby round the edges like me) :lol:


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

My point is that it has nothing to do with the car. It doesn't matter what people think its worth. If the driver Is the sort of person who compares their car to other peoples and judges other people based on what they drive, then people will pick up on that and react. This reaction may get interpreted as jealousy, but I imagine that's rarely the reason.


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## J•RED (Feb 10, 2013)

I was talking to an elderly gent the other day and he mentioned that my car must of set me back 30-40K! He nearly kicked the bucket when I said "Nooo, more like 5" :lol:


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

J•RED said:


> I was talking to an elderly gent the other day and he mentioned that my car must of set me back 30-40K! He nearly kicked the bucket when I said "Nooo, more like 5" :lol:


exactly!!!! it is the perception that it is still an expensive looking car.


Spandex said:


> My point is that it has nothing to do with the car. It doesn't matter what people think its worth. If the driver Is the sort of person who compares their car to other peoples and judges other people based on what they drive, then people will pick up on that and react. This reaction may get interpreted as jealousy, but I imagine that's rarely the reason.


i do think at times you are blinkered spandy to life for us mere mortals on a day to day basis. you made a comment about the op that she is the sort of person that thinks her car is better than everyone elses basically. (ok maybe not word for word terminology) do we not all think what we have created in our own little worlds is the best? be it children cars home decorating etc. think you went a bit black and white on that score bud......life is full of grey's too am afraid.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Gazzer said:


> i do think at times you are blinkered spandy to life for us mere mortals on a day to day basis. you made a comment about the op that she is the sort of person that thinks her car is better than everyone elses basically. (ok maybe not word for word terminology) do we not all think what we have created in our own little worlds is the best? be it children cars home decorating etc. think you went a bit black and white on that score bud......life is full of grey's too am afraid.


I know what I said about the OP. I explained it was based on other things they've said on here. If I've got that impression based on a few posts, then it's quite possible other people have got a similar impression based on conversations they may have had. I'm not saying they're an arsehole, I'm just saying if they act a little bit cocky, or a bit too superior regarding their car, then people will want to put them in their place and it won't have anything to do with jealousy.

I don't think what I've 'created in my own little world' is the best at all. I have no desire for it to be either. I certainly don't want to compare it to everyone else to decide if it's any good or not.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Spandex said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > i do think at times you are blinkered spandy to life for us mere mortals on a day to day basis. you made a comment about the op that she is the sort of person that thinks her car is better than everyone elses basically. (ok maybe not word for word terminology) do we not all think what we have created in our own little worlds is the best? be it children cars home decorating etc. think you went a bit black and white on that score bud......life is full of grey's too am afraid.
> ...


i didn't mention areshole, so wonder why you have tbh as that is quite a derogitory comment to make about a woman no matter how old or young i feel. she is 26......of course she is cocky ya nugget. jees were you never young once and full of life or were you born this boring m8 lol. lighten up and try too have some humanity at times.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Gazzer said:


> i didn't mention areshole, so wonder why you have tbh as that is quite a derogitory comment to make about a woman no matter how old or young i feel. she is 26......of course she is cocky ya nugget. jees were you never young once and full of life or were you born this boring m8 lol. lighten up and try too have some humanity at times.


Only someone with a grasp of the English language as tenuous as yours could misconstrue "I'm not saying they're an arsehole" as being a derogatory comment. Did you just pick out the word "arsehole" and ignore everything around it? Whilst randomly missing out 80% of the words may be an excellent time-saving technique when reading, it does make it a little difficult for you to understand what everyone else is on about.

Yes Gaz, I was young once. I was probably cocky when I was young. This probably rubbed a few people up the wrong way and they probably had little digs at me. I probably thought, "they're just jealous" (because that's what a cocky person would think).

No Gaz, I wasn't born this boring. Years of having to repeatedly explain simple things to people like you has made me this way. Thanks a bunch.


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## maryanne1986 (Apr 8, 2013)

To be honest spandex I have been watching this thread unfold over the last few days and to say I have rubbed people up the wrong way or seemed cocky, especially after me going through 27 pages of posts since I joined this site I think maybe it Is being misinterpreted as im really just a confident young women with nothing to lose. I am extremely proud of my car your right and yes I want to show it off because I love it, I have spent money on getting it to a standard im happy with and no offence but you have no idea how hard I have had to work to get it and be able to afford to run it. I have come on this forum to potentially make new friends and interact with people over the same love. our TTs and posting this thread was not intended to rub people's faces in it and say my TT is better than yours because it Is far from that, if it was the best why would I bother spending money on it?

This thread was posted to just question and evaluate whether people have come into contact with others who have been jealous of their cars, as the people (OFF THE FORUM) who have been jealous of my car are those who are bitter and twisted and get a sick kick over dumbing down and conveying negativity onto people when they have nice things. That is all I have posted this for, it's nice to see some have replied and understood what I mean. So im sorry if you think im cocky, because its confidence and I'm sorry that you think the OP needs knocking down a peg or two&#8230; because in all honesty I don't think I do. I am just a woman who is proud to own her FIRST TT and wants to share it with the rest of you. 
You seem to be the only person in my life who has a problem with the way I come across on forums and i have been on a fair few as when i checked previous posts I have been somewhat positive, happy and engaged since joining even when wrong I have admitted defeat over something. So let's put an end to this because it is getting silly!

If you don't like my attitude don't read my threads or posts, add me as a foe so it saves problems 
But really spandex I have no problem with you and don't know why you have with me 
I don't know if you get some sick pleasure out of slamming keys on a keyboard slandering young women on car forums but I am not the one who now looks like an idiot. I am simply a girl enjoying her car, showing it off like the rest of us and i probably will for the remainder of my time in ownership of a TT

thanks


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## J•RED (Feb 10, 2013)

Well said Maryanne, keep up the good work with that TT of yours


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

I havent said what you can and can't do, I have simply offered an explanation for the behaviour that you perceived as jealousy (I'm talking about off this forum, as I assumed that's what you were referring to in your post). I'm not saying they're in the right to behave the way they do any more than I'm saying you're in the wrong. You admit that you want to show off your car (again, I don't care if you do) so all I'm saying is that how people react to that isn't necessarily driven by jealousy.

Ive not actually 'slandered' you on here and I don't have any problem with you. I'm just disagreeing with your original post, that's all.


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## oceans7 (Oct 20, 2009)

Having been to swansea in the past, I know that people there consider others are doing well if they own more than one shoe. So turning up in a TT would be on a par to steering the QE2 into your local park pond.


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## WozzaTT (Jan 15, 2006)

oceans7 said:


> Having been to swansea in the past, I know that people there consider others are doing well if they own more than one shoe. So turning up in a TT would be on a par to steering the QE2 into your local park pond.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## maryanne1986 (Apr 8, 2013)

WozzaTT said:


> oceans7 said:
> 
> 
> > Having been to swansea in the past, I know that people there consider others are doing well if they own more than one shoe. So turning up in a TT would be on a par to steering the QE2 into your local park pond.
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Spandex said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > i didn't mention areshole, so wonder why you have tbh as that is quite a derogitory comment to make about a woman no matter how old or young i feel. she is 26......of course she is cocky ya nugget. jees were you never young once and full of life or were you born this boring m8 lol. lighten up and try too have some humanity at times.
> ...


maybe if you spoke the same language as the rest of us you woul or could understand what people are saying and where they are coming from ya wally. (totally ignoring your remarks about my english as it's old news)


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

maryanne1986 said:


> To be honest spandex I have been watching this thread unfold over the last few days and to say I have rubbed people up the wrong way or seemed cocky, especially after me going through 27 pages of posts since I joined this site I think maybe it Is being misinterpreted as im really just a confident young women with nothing to lose. I am extremely proud of my car your right and yes I want to show it off because I love it, I have spent money on getting it to a standard im happy with and no offence but you have no idea how hard I have had to work to get it and be able to afford to run it. I have come on this forum to potentially make new friends and interact with people over the same love. our TTs and posting this thread was not intended to rub people's faces in it and say my TT is better than yours because it Is far from that, if it was the best why would I bother spending money on it?
> 
> This thread was posted to just question and evaluate whether people have come into contact with others who have been jealous of their cars, as the people (OFF THE FORUM) who have been jealous of my car are those who are bitter and twisted and get a sick kick over dumbing down and conveying negativity onto people when they have nice things. That is all I have posted this for, it's nice to see some have replied and understood what I mean. So im sorry if you think im cocky, because its confidence and I'm sorry that you think the OP needs knocking down a peg or two&#8230; because in all honesty I don't think I do. I am just a woman who is proud to own her FIRST TT and wants to share it with the rest of you.
> You seem to be the only person in my life who has a problem with the way I come across on forums and i have been on a fair few as when i checked previous posts I have been somewhat positive, happy and engaged since joining even when wrong I have admitted defeat over something. So let's put an end to this because it is getting silly!
> ...


hey wd kiddo for having your say, and just keep being you ok!!!! ignore grumpy old farts like me and spandy that moan or HAVE to point out peoples faults. xx


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## cheechy (Nov 8, 2006)

In the last few weeks for some odd reason I have indeed experienced the universal "w*****" gesture commonly used by those who find it hard to express their true feelings on the road. I've not had that a lot with the other TTs I've owned for some reason.....

I have to admit I do like to boot the car from time to time when overtaking (its probably one of the few pleasures I get on my daily commute :lol: ) and can see that sometimes this may surprise people I'm going past as the car is fairly rapid and loud on full tap.

Quite honestly I think people may think I'm either doing some osrt of dangerous maneouvre (which I dont do) or more likely I'm showing off. Whilst there may well be some truth in that subconciously I'm doing it as I enjoy it.

Simply put some people have the mentality that if you own or use certain cars then you're showing off - therefore you are a complete tit. I'm not sure there's an awful lot you can do about it aside from try to ignore!


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## NoMark (Jul 6, 2011)

cheechy said:


> In the last few weeks for some odd reason I have indeed experienced the universal "w*****" gesture commonly used by those who find it hard to express their true feelings on the road. I've not had that a lot with the other TTs I've owned for some reason.....
> 
> I have to admit I do like to boot the car from time to time when overtaking (its probably one of the few pleasures I get on my daily commute :lol: ) and can see that sometimes this may surprise people I'm going past as the car is fairly rapid and loud on full tap.
> 
> ...


Very well put.


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## smc2402 (Mar 17, 2009)

Moody ! Well, we can't all like each other, or what we have, or want, or perceive. Mind you, that'd make things as dull as a dull thing, and we could become the Stepford Clones !


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

maryanne1986 said:


> To be honest spandex I have been watching this thread unfold over the last few days and to say I have rubbed people up the wrong way or seemed cocky, especially after me going through 27 pages of posts since I joined this site I think maybe it Is being misinterpreted as im really just a confident young women with nothing to lose. I am extremely proud of my car your right and yes I want to show it off because I love it, I have spent money on getting it to a standard im happy with and no offence but you have no idea how hard I have had to work to get it and be able to afford to run it. I have come on this forum to potentially make new friends and interact with people over the same love. our TTs and posting this thread was not intended to rub people's faces in it and say my TT is better than yours because it Is far from that, if it was the best why would I bother spending money on it?
> 
> This thread was posted to just question and evaluate whether people have come into contact with others who have been jealous of their cars, as the people (OFF THE FORUM) who have been jealous of my car are those who are bitter and twisted and get a sick kick over dumbing down and conveying negativity onto people when they have nice things. That is all I have posted this for, it's nice to see some have replied and understood what I mean. So im sorry if you think im cocky, because its confidence and I'm sorry that you think the OP needs knocking down a peg or two&#8230; because in all honesty I don't think I do. I am just a woman who is proud to own her FIRST TT and wants to share it with the rest of you.





maryanne1986 said:


> *You seem to be the only person in my life* who has a problem with the way I come across on forums and i have been on a fair few as when i checked previous posts I have been somewhat positive, happy and engaged since joining even when wrong I have admitted defeat over something. So let's put an end to this because it is getting silly!
> 
> If you don't like my attitude don't read my threads or posts, add me as a foe so it saves problems
> But really spandex I have no problem with you and don't know why you have with me
> I don't know if you get some sick pleasure out of slamming keys on a keyboard slandering young women on car forums but I am not the one who now looks like an idiot. I am simply a girl enjoying her car, showing it off like the rest of us and i probably will for the remainder of my time in ownership of a TT thanks


 Please Smurfette, would you like to expand on this comment? 




smc2402 said:


> Moody ! Well, we can't all like each other, or what we have, or want, or perceive. Mind you, that'd make things as dull as a dull thing, and we could become the Stepford Clones !


I think they do? :roll: 
Smurfette has a penchant for the blue. And Spandy is the right colour! :lol:


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

Just to wind the Smurfette up even further. I've actually experienced the opposite.
When I turned up for work in a brand new _(well two year old- which is brand new for me)_ Vauxhall GSI (Don't laugh and yes they are c%@p in comparison-sorry Hoggy but it's true  ) I heard several comments from the staff and peers re 'showing off' etc 
Worst part was, I wasn't.
I actually cycled to work most days but only took the car in five or six times a year when I had to.

But since I've had the TT all I get are stares, and then questions, about the power, handling, and whether I moonlight in another job cutting hair? :lol:


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Skeee said:


> Just to wind the Smurfette up even further. I've actually experienced the opposite.
> When I turned up for work in a brand new _(well two year old- which is brand new for me)_ Vauxhall GSI (Don't laugh and yes they are c%@p in comparison-sorry Hoggy but it's true  ) I heard several comments from the staff and peers re 'showing off' etc
> Worst part was, I wasn't.
> I actually cycled to work most days but only took the car in five or six times a year when I had to.
> ...


the thought of Skeeezer in little lycra cycling kit on a peddler is not a good thought :lol: :lol:


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

Gazzer said:


> Skeee said:
> 
> 
> > Just to wind the Smurfette up even further. I've actually experienced the opposite.
> ...


Pics on way! :lol:


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

i dont know / think it is jealousy but some people certainly resent me and my car !!!!!!!!!! i have no idea why, because i really am the nicest person, best at my job and drive the best car,, so it is not my fault :roll:


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## jacobmwatson (Apr 25, 2013)

roddy said:


> i dont know / think it is jealousy but some people certainly resent me and my car !!!!!!!!!! i have no idea why, because i really am the nicest person, best at my job and drive the best car,, so it is not my fault :roll:


same here :mrgreen:


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## Matt225FFA (May 7, 2013)

Since buying my TT all I've gotten from my 'peers' (mates and colleagues) is jovial hairdresser jokes (maybe jealousy, or just an opportunity taken) followed by the questions on speed and handling etc, and a few compliments on the paint.
I was expecting to get flamed a bit with the TT's (undeserved in my opinion) reputation but not by everyone. I got called a hairdresser by a colleague who drives his girlfriends vauxhall corsa! REDICULOUS!
Any who, I think some people are jealous, some people are mean for the sake of it, some people think taking the piss is a socially acceptable funny thing to do.
I also think sod em all I have an awesome car which I love and couldn't care what their opinion on it is. They haven't got to drive it after all.


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

Matt225FFA said:


> Since buying my TT all I've gotten from my 'peers' (mates and colleagues) is jovial hairdresser jokes (maybe jealousy, or just an opportunity taken) followed by the questions on speed and handling etc, and a few compliments on the paint.
> I was expecting to get flamed a bit with the TT's (undeserved in my opinion) reputation but not by everyone. I got called a hairdresser by a colleague who drives his girlfriends vauxhall corsa! REDICULOUS!
> Any who, I think some people are jealous, some people are mean for the sake of it, some people think taking the piss is a socially acceptable funny thing to do.
> I also think sod em all I have an awesome car which I love and couldn't care what their opinion on it is. They haven't got to drive it after all.


Same here, a few of the guys at work made the hairdresser jokes, etc, but like water off a duck's back. Funny though the one who went on about it the most was quick to ask if we were going in my car when we had a business trip together, and he drives a Zafira....

Trouble is plenty of people are just jealous of anything decent anyone else owns. I could probably get any car I wanted, as in a very good job, mortgage paid off when I was in early 40's, etc, slowly buying more property to rent out as better long term than pension (IMO) and a overheard a neighbour the other day saying how lucky I was. Funny really, he's confusing luck with hard work, that's why I'm the first one out in the mornings in my road and either the last one back (most others work locally so are out 8:30-17:45 or so) & I spend 80 or so nights a year in Europe, US or Asia...

Funny really how the harder I work the luckier I get. :mrgreen:


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

Shug750S said:


> Same here, a few of the guys at work made the hairdresser jokes, etc, but like water off a duck's back. Funny though the one who went on about it the most was quick to ask if we were going in my car when we had a business trip together, and he drives a Zafira....
> Trouble is plenty of people are just jealous of anything decent anyone else owns. I could probably get any car I wanted, as in a very good job, mortgage paid off when I was in early 40's, etc, slowly buying more property to rent out as better long term than pension (IMO) and a overheard a neighbour the other day saying how lucky I was. Funny really, he's confusing luck with hard work, that's why I'm the first one out in the mornings in my road and either the last one back (most others work locally so are out 8:30-17:45 or so) & I spend 80 or so nights a year in Europe, US or Asia...
> Funny really how the harder I work the luckier I get. :mrgreen:



Well, aren't you lucky! 

Not every one measures fortune in monetary terms.
Although FWIW, I believe you create your own luck!


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## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

I've seen all sorts of reaction to me on the road or arriving somewhere on it. The vehicle you drive/ride is assumed to reflect your income, social standing and people react to match. We had the police visit our home once because they had a tip-off we were drug dealers, you know, nice flash cars, security cameras, big dog.

The only public comments I've had about the TT since owning it has been from elderly ladies who want to come home with me. I guess I aged badly.  Mates still say "Hair dresser's car" but I reminded one that he drove a Volvo 760 like my dad had.


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

Pugwash69 said:


> I've seen all sorts of reaction to me on the road or arriving somewhere on it. The vehicle you drive/ride is assumed to reflect your income, social standing and people react to match. We had the police visit our home once because they had a tip-off we were drug dealers, you know, nice flash cars, security cameras, big dog.
> 
> The only public comments I've had about the TT since owning it has been from elderly ladies who want to come home with me. I guess I aged badly.  Mates still say "Hair dresser's car" but I reminded one that he drove a Volvo 760 like my dad had.


   nice one, reminds me of a mini cab who took me to the airport once, turned up in a brand new top end S class merc. He lived on the worst estate in the area and parked it every night outside his flat. No one ever touched it, they all thought he was a drug dealer or gangster and were scared shitless...


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## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

We had a police officer with a warrant visit. I thought she had the wrong address. Apparently they were tipped off about skunk!










I don't think they'll make that mistake again.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Shug750S said:


> Matt225FFA said:
> 
> 
> > Since buying my TT all I've gotten from my 'peers' (mates and colleagues) is jovial hairdresser jokes (maybe jealousy, or just an opportunity taken) followed by the questions on speed and handling etc, and a few compliments on the paint.
> ...


Fair shout shug on the success and hard work to get the financial gains it has brought you in life. I am also an out the door by seven at latest and most days it's 12-14 hours if you count quotes done at home. Very few of us live to work not work to live folks around these days.....so well done you.


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

There is no doubt in my mind that people in Britain are pretty funny about cars.

In the US, a nice car is a good thing. In the UK people warn you not to show off or be gauche with a flash car.

I have had far more negative envious remarks over Porsches than any of the other cars I've owned. People don't like Porkers (isn't that he worse slang-name ever for a great car?) and they don't like people who have them.

The problem with something like the Gallardo is people have an opinion on it. OK, you are entitled to have an opinion, but I have to listen and nod, smile and be gracious because if I didn't I'd be a cock, right?

I know the fuel economy is bad. That's why I'm putting another £130 worth in.

I know I can't go more than 70 in the UK but it would be wrong to point out I do 35% of my business in Germany where I can go as fast as the traffic will allow on some bits of road.

And I'm sorry I'm not a celebrity and that I kept you waiting 2 or 3 minutes to take my picture for nothing when it turned out I wasn't worth putting on your Facebook page, so you just photographed the car instead.

And yet.... It's a Gallardo, so I'll put up with anything because, at least until next August, it's all mine.


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## Callum-TT (Jun 3, 2013)

Well I honestly couldn't care less what people think about me.

When I get back to my 5 bed detached house and see my 13 reg Sportage, wife's 206cc and my TT convertible any snarky comments go out the window 

I have worked too long and hard to get where I am for morons to get to me


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