# New A8



## vlastan

I had the pleasure to drive the 4l TDI quattro in Germany for 3 hours. It had most of the toys except TV and keyless go.

This car may have only 270bhp but the torque is that matters. It is 478 lb/ft and if you study the figures you can see that it can do the same acceleration as the V6 TT. The air suspension is perfect and the double glazing meant that you never noticed the diesel engine or the fact that you drive at 130 mph!! Simply awesome car, and my current favourite one.

It was fitted with winter tyres so driving on the top of the Black forest with snow didn't cause any issues. Simply the best limousine in the market! And a perfect engine.


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## paulb

> Simply the best limousine in the market!


I'm sure it is superb, but have you driven an S class?


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## Dotti

Yeah and so it should be at 61k over here


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## vlastan

> I'm sure it is superb, but have you driven an S class?


I see your point. But the S320CDi is a lot slower than the diesel V8 A8. Perhaps I had to make clear that I was impressed a lot more by the diesel engine as well as the A8. Only the V10 Touareg engine can outrun Audi's A8 diesel one.

Abi, the price for the A8 diesel is actually Â£57k.


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## W7 PMC

> I had the pleasure to drive the 4l TDI quattro in Germany for 3 hours. It had most of the toys except TV and keyless go.
> 
> This car may have only 270bhp but the torque is that matters. It is 478 lb/ft and if you study the figures you can see that it can do the same acceleration as the V6 TT. The air suspension is perfect and the double glazing meant that you never noticed the diesel engine or the fact that you drive at 130 mph!! Simply awesome car, and my current favourite one.
> 
> It was fitted with winter tyres so driving on the top of the Black forest with snow didn't cause any issues. Simply the best limousine in the market! And a perfect engine.


How nice. After all that crap whilst arguing with me a few months back on the virtues of the A8 / S8, its now V's favourite car.


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## Dotti

: !


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## W7 PMC

> Only the V10 Touareg engine can outrun Audi's A8 diesel one.


& the V8 4.2 A8, plus the S8 (obviously) & the W12 A8 could wup all of them. ;D


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## Carlos

> & the V8 4.2 A8, plus the S8 (obviously) & the W12 A8 could wup all of them. ;D


Yeh, but given the choice we'd all go for the latest model, wouldn't we?  :


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## coupe-sport

Superb engine .. the diesel version


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## vlastan

> Yeh, but given the choice we'd all go for the latest model, wouldn't we? Â  :


Absolutely!


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## vlastan

> Superb engine .. the diesel version Â


Who needs expensive petrol when diesel is faster and cheaper?


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## W7 PMC

> Yeh, but given the choice we'd all go for the latest model, wouldn't we? Â  :


If all of us is the same as 1 of us, then you're totally correct  ;D


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## W7 PMC

> Who needs expensive petrol when diesel is faster and cheaper? Â


Oh dear, oh dear.

Not sure where you get your information from, but where exactly is Diesel cheaper & how is it faster??

Round these parts, diesel is a couple of pence dearer than unleaded & the diesel is not faster than the 4.2 petrol A8.

Fact: A8 4.0 TDI costs Â£57630 & has a 0-60 of 6.7 secs. Fact: Petrol equivalent 4.2 costs Â£55055 & has a 0-60 time of 6.3 secs.

As for consumption, the TDI is a combined of 28.8 mpg & the 4.2 petrol a combined 23.5 mpg (hardly a nipple hardening difference) & as the TDI is Â£2500 more expensive & diesel is on average, 2p per litre more expensive, you'd have to be running inter-galactic mileages to make up any initial loss in buying the TDI over the petrol ;D

I think i rest my case in an adequate manner  ;D

Ps. I do really like the new A8 (both petrol & diesel) & will be looking closely at the W12 when its fully available over here, but as with my current S8, i'd only invest in a slightly used model, as i'm sure the price will drop like a rock in its 1st year.


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## damo

0-60 is almost meaningless as a true indicator of a car's performance - especially when big saloons are being discussed. How often do you see them dragged from the lights?! When you're moving e.g. 30-100 is where it matters (or the feeling of instant, effortless thrust, i.e. torque), and although I hate smelly clanky diesels I'm sure the diesel would perform well here.


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## scoTTy

Paul,

Run away. You're getting lured in again. Save yourself while you still can.

Join me with my _attempted_ *** new years resolution : "there's no point trying to convince someone who 'knows better'". 

*** I don't think it will last very long :


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## W7 PMC

> Paul,
> 
> Run away. You're getting lured in again. Save yourself while you still can.
> 
> Join me with my _attempted_ *** new years resolution : "there's no point trying to convince someone who 'knows better'". Â
> 
> *** I don't think it will last very long Â :


*LOL* Excellent post ;D


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## W7 PMC

> 0-60 is almost meaningless as a true indicator of a car's performance - especially when big saloons are being discussed. How often do you see them dragged from the lights?! When you're moving e.g. 30-100 is where it matters (or the feeling of instant, effortless thrust, i.e. torque), and although I hate smelly clanky diesels I'm sure the diesel would perform well here.


I'm always playing the drag game off the lights  . Thats one of the main reasons i like my S8 so much. You get some spotty little oik in any manner of hot hatches, giving it maximum revs at the lights, then i floor my beast & see them cursing in my rear view mirror, as they try & work out what just happened. How many big saloons do you know that will hit 60 in about 5.5secs? Its great fun.

I can't be bothered to check the other performance times for the TDI vs Petrol A8, but i'm sure there aint that much in it. My point was that for the extra money you'd pay for the TDI, plus the extra pennies at the pump, you're not gaining any real advantage (even performance), by chossing the TDI over the petrol.

Ps. How nice does the V8 petrol sound at full clatter ;D


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## vlastan

> Oh dear, oh dear.
> 
> Not sure where you get your information from, but where exactly is Diesel cheaper & how is it faster??
> 
> Round these parts, diesel is a couple of pence dearer than unleaded & the diesel is not faster than the 4.2 petrol A8.
> 
> Fact: A8 4.0 TDI costs Â£57630 & has a 0-60 of 6.7 secs. Fact: Petrol equivalent 4.2 costs Â£55055 & has a 0-60 time of 6.3 secs.
> 
> As for consumption, the TDI is a combined of 28.8 mpg & the 4.2 petrol a combined 23.5 mpg (hardly a nipple hardening difference) & as the TDI is Â£2500 more expensive & diesel is on average, 2p per litre more expensive, you'd have to be running inter-galactic mileages to make up any initial loss in buying the TDI over the petrol ;D
> 
> I think i rest my case in an adequate manner  ;D
> 
> Ps. I do really like the new A8 (both petrol & diesel) & will be looking closely at the W12 when its fully available over here, but as with my current S8, i'd only invest in a slightly used model, as i'm sure the price will drop like a rock in its 1st year.


Paul,

Have a read at Autocar 16th December issue. The V8 TDi did 0-60 in 6.4s. In another test autocar did the 0-60 with the 4.2 petrol at 6.6 seconds! So the TDi wins.

Diesel is one or two pence more expensive per litre than the 95 Ron fuel. But you wouldn't dare using 95 Ron fuel in a 4.2 litre engine as you wouldn't be doing 0-60 in 6.6s but a lot slower. So you have to compare the standard diesel with the Optimax fuel, which means that Optimax will be 2-3 pence more expensive.

I agree that the TDi costs more (about Â£2.5k more) but the depreciation is 6% better after 3 years. So this breaks even.

I can assure you that the V8 TDi has no diesel clatter.

I think I rest my case in an adequate manner too!  ;D


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## W7 PMC

> Paul,
> 
> Have a read at Autocar 16th December issue. The V8 TDi did 0-60 in 6.4s. In another test autocar did the 0-60 with the 4.2 petrol at 6.6 seconds! So the TDi wins.
> 
> Diesel is one or two pence more expensive per litre than the 95 Ron fuel. But you wouldn't dare using 95 Ron fuel in a 4.2 litre engine as you wouldn't be doing 0-60 in 6.6s but a lot slower. So you have to compare the standard diesel with the Optimax fuel, which means that Optimax will be 2-3 pence more expensive.
> 
> I agree that the TDi costs more (about Â£2.5k more) but the depreciation is 6% better after 3 years. So this breaks even.
> 
> I can assure you that the V8 TDi has no diesel clatter.
> 
> I think I rest my case in an adequate manner too! Â  ;D


Of course you don't ;D I was quoting Audi's own performance figures which for accuracy, is the correct route. No idea how you can back to back different tests from a car rag. The tests would have been on different dates & different drivers. I think for continuity purposes, using Audi's own figures would make sense.

As for depreciation, neither of the cars is established enough to give accurate depreciation figures, especially the TDI. It may well have a slightly lower depreciation, but Â£ for Â£ it still aint winning when everything is taken into account.

Oh & for the record, the RON differences to a normally aspirated engine are almost non existent. Check out the TT V6, it recommends 91-95RON, yet the 1.8 Turbo suggests that 98RON is better. In the Turbo manual, it actually states that 98 is recommended & if you use 95RON, you may see some performance reduction. No such mention in my manual or that of the new model A8 petrol. I can personally confirm that in the 4.2 litre V8, there is no performance difference by using Optimax, so once again, the fuel argument stays in my court. Diesel is more expensive than normal unleaded.

In an A8, you would not hear any engine noise anyway, due to the double glazing & existing excellent sound proofing ;D


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## vlastan

> Of course you don't


 

Fine. At least this time your present your arguments in a good human way, without shouting abuse to me, which is great.

I saw an S8 in the German dealer. The price was 59k Euros and it was 14 months old with 17k kms on the clock. It was fully loaded! I believe this sounds very similar to your spec and price as well?

They had lots of TTs and A8s for sale. The 4l petrol with only 27k miles and two years old was for sale for only 30k euros!!!! Very cheap cars when used. And this is why it makes sense getting one in the second hand market and never pay the full price for a new one.

Who knows, maybe in two years time I may be getting a 4l A8 diesel in the second hand market for 25k! 

Have you seen how the MMI widescreen pops out of the wood dashboard when you press a button? Very cool stuff! Other innovative features were keyless entry and identification of your fingure print to start the engine, adaptive cruise control, illumination of the corners when turning, pressure and temperature control of all tyres including the spare in the boot, cool box that can work at -15 to +10C (why do you need to chill the champagne at -15C??)


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## W7 PMC

> Â
> 
> Fine. At least this time your present your arguments in a good human way, without shouting abuse to me, which is great.
> 
> I saw an S8 in the German dealer. The price was 59k Euros and it was 14 months old with 17k kms on the clock. It was fully loaded! I believe this sounds very similar to your spec and price as well?
> 
> They had lots of TTs and A8s for sale. The 4l petrol with only 27k miles and two years old was for sale for only 30k euros!!!! Very cheap cars when used. And this is why it makes sense getting one in the second hand market and never pay the full price for a new one.
> 
> Who knows, maybe in two years time I may be getting a 4l A8 diesel in the second hand market for 25k! Â
> 
> Have you seen how the MMI widescreen pops out of the wood dashboard when you press a button? Very cool stuff! Other innovative features were keyless entry and identification of your fingure print to start the engine, adaptive cruise control, illumination of the corners when turning, pressure and temperature control of all tyres including the spare in the boot, cool box that can work at -15 to +10C (why do you need to chill the champagne at -15C??)


Does that mean i won the arguement then?? ;D

They are a cracking motor & represent great value secondhand. The S8 you mention does sound about the same price & age (very slightly older) as my S8. Mine is what Audi refer to as the Aniversary spec with the 20" wheels & a couple of other goodies, plus mine is in Avus with Red leather & Control pack (just like your TT) but without the red steering wheel.

That MMI screen is also the TV, DVD & Sat Nav in the higher Spec new model A8's. The loan car had these & it was pretty groovy. The car i had did not have fingerprint recognition (but my iPAQ does ). I intend to have 2 additional screens fitted in the back of the front seat head restraints plus DVD player & PS2 installed, once she has been to AMD for her performance mods 8) ;D

Mine does have the tyre pressure sensors / warning, but no idea if that covers the spare wheel & mine does not have a coolbox (or at least i aint found one). Glove box is air conditioned though ;D The loan car did have the weird headlamp feature, but i really could not notice any difference over regular Xenons ??? The Radar cruise control is very cool though. You can pretty much drive the whole length of a motorway without touching the throttle, the car slows itself down from the cruise speed, once it encounters traffic ahead


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## paulb

Come on guys this is a bit amicable. Nick, Paul said you were a plonker. Fight! Fight! Fight! Oh and red steering wheels are very bad taste...


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## nutts

Said the man with 2 Vauxhalls  ;D

Anyway, when can I have a go in your rollerskate? : ;D



> ... bad taste...


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## vlastan

> Come on guys this is a bit amicable. Nick, Paul said you were a plonker. Fight! Fight! Fight! Oh and red steering wheels are very bad taste...


But Paul is so tiny next to me...I could cause him so much damage...so I let him go this time! Why do you think Scotty asked him to run?


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## W7 PMC

> But Paul is so tiny next to me...I could cause him so much damage...so I let him go this time! Why do you think Scotty asked him to run? Â


You wish ;D

The only damage you could cause me would be to my ears & my street credibilitiy  ;D


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## Carlos

> Of course you don't ;D I was quoting Audi's own performance figures which for accuracy, is the correct route.


Nope, I've read this again and again, and still I can't see past the irony. Masterful :


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## Dotti

Anyone for an after eight mint ;D...left overs from christmas ... oh and I have some fresh pop corn and a nice seat to spectate this thread from where I am sitting  ;D


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## garyc

I'm with V on this one. I'd take the diesel over the petrol A8 any day. Â For the same reason that most prefer the 320cdi S class over the S class 320i petrol equivelent.

Approx 50% more torque in the 4.0tdi than a 4.2 A8 (forgetting the S8 for one second, although it is still more peaky than the 4.2??), but at less than half the revs will make it quicker in most real road situations. Â Far more economical in real driving too, since the greater torque allows more acclelerative power on lighter throttle openings. Â If one drives everywhere within 2000rpm of the red line (which you would need to do in the petrol just to keep up) then you may have an edge in the petrol - but not much more - and petrol economy will suffer more.

Just as the 330d is quicker than the 330i most times, most speeds. With a Tuning Box every time. 8)

I know this to be true as does a growing number of 330i, 530i, 540i, TT, and puzzeled Impreza drivers out there.


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## W7 PMC

> I'm with V on this one. I'd take the diesel over the petrol A8 any day. Â For the same reason that most prefer the 320cdi S class over the S class 320i petrol equivelent.
> 
> Approx 50% more torque in the 4.0tdi than a 4.2 A8 (forgetting the S8 for one second, although it is still more peaky than the 4.2??), but at less than half the revs will make it quicker in most real road situations. Â Far more economical in real driving too, since the greater torque allows more acclelerative power on lighter throttle openings. Â If one drives everywhere within 2000rpm of the red line (which you would need to do in the petrol just to keep up) then you may have an edge in the petrol - but not much more - and petrol economy will suffer more.
> 
> Just as the 330d is quicker than the 330i most times, most speeds. With a Tuning Box every time. 8)
> 
> I know this to be true as does a growing number of 330i, 530i, 540i, TT, and puzzeled Impreza drivers out there.


Cheers Gary

This aint fair now as its 2 against 1. At school they used to call this bullying.  ;D 

I have no further points to argue, other that diesel smells worse than petrol ;D

Not sure about the revs scenario, as my motor only redlines at 7000rpm & in sports mode the gear changes take place at about 6900 when at full throttle, so all the power is well & truly available. Gonna win this arguement once & for all when the power in my car is increased & tops the 400bhp mark ;D

My factual arguement only un-confirmed V's points that when taking performance, extra cost of diesel over unleaded & the initial Â£2500 additional cost, that the TDI was not really better than the petrol. It is defo on a par with its petrol drinking brother & if you prefer the certain advantages of the TDI, then thats the 1 to buy. My only point was that on paper the TDI is not better value than the petrol, only perhaps on a par. ;D

Plus diesel owners have to wear silly hand condoms when filling up to avoid spillages & splashback   (now i've worked out why V likes them )


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## W7 PMC

> Nope, I've read this again and again, and still I can't see past the irony. Â Masterful Â :


What irony  ;D


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## phil

> Plus diesel owners have to waer silly hand condoms when filling up to avoid spillages & splashback


I've never bothered :-/


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## garyc

> Cheers Gary
> 
> This aint fair now as its 2 against 1. At school they used to call this bullying.  ;D
> 
> I have no further points to argue, other that diesel smells worse than petrol ;D
> 
> Not sure about the revs scenario, as my motor only redlines at 7000rpm & in sports mode the gear changes take place at about 6900 when at full throttle, so all the power is well & truly available. Gonna win this arguement once & for all when the power in my car is increased & tops the 400bhp mark ;D
> 
> My factual arguement only un-confirmed V's points that when taking performance, extra cost of diesel over unleaded & the initial Â£2500 additional cost, that the TDI was not really better than the petrol. It is defo on a par with its petrol drinking brother & if you prefer the certain advantages of the TDI, then thats the 1 to buy. My only point was that on paper the TDI is not better value than the petrol, only perhaps on a par. ;D
> 
> Plus diesel owners have to wear silly hand condoms when filling up to avoid spillages & splashback   (now i've worked out why V likes them )


I keep one XXL right hand cotten-lined gardening glove (for easy entry   ) stuffed inside fuel flap for such occasions. But i know how to spoil myself. Which is nice. 

For Europe, where diesel has price advantages over petrol, the running benefits are greater still.

In UK, better diesel Exec car residuals will probably more than offset initial premiums.

It's all down to personal preferences. Lugging or revving? Plus lighter petrol units do also offer some weight and therefore handling/balance advantages.

I hear that the V8 tdi with 270hp is every bit as quick as the V10 300hp unit as it is lighter.

A 350hp tuned 4.0 TDI, with associated torque increases would be an interesting proposition.

Vlastan wrote a good assessment BTW.


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## GRANNY

Anyone else have a sense of De-ja-vue.

I agree with paul, ( reason ) cos he lives near me. ;D ;D


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## coupe-sport

> Anyone else have a sense of De-ja-vue.


no... just a smell of diesel


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## vlastan

A diesel can run on this agriculture fuel as well (very cheape) and with cooking oil as well!! 

Try to run an S8 with any of the above and see what happens! ;D

When I buy a diesel I will buy a piece of land in Suffolk so that I can qualify to have the agriculture diesel in stock! ;D


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## coupe-sport

are you talking about Bio diesel ? - the red diesel on farms etc is illegal to use on the road...


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## GRANNY

V man
Would claim Greek immunity.
And get away with it. ;D ;D


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## vlastan

> are you talking about Bio diesel ? - the red diesel on farms etc is illegal to use on the road...


I though that red diesel is illegal to use on the road because you don't pay so much tax on it, not because it is not environmentaly friendly.

After all...Suffolk is so full of farms, so it wouldn't make much difference. ;D


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## scoTTy

[slightly off topic]
This months Top Gear magazine has a three page buyers guide on A8 4.2 quattros.

"Its very fast, luxurious and you can buy one for less than a new Mondeo"
[/slightly off topic]


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## garyc

> [slightly off topic]
> This months Top Gear magazine has a three page buyers guide on A8 4.2 quattros.
> 
> "Its very fast, luxurious and you can buy one for less than a new Mondeo"
> [/slightly off topic]


Yep, and as we all agreed (and Paul knows well), that is a lot of car for the money and hardly old-fashioned, even though a newer model is now available.


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