# How do people propose new committee members?



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

It's all a mystery.

Where do we propose new committee people, hear their proposals and vote accordingly?

It's all a bit vague.


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

It's not vague at all. All current members received an email and both this forum and the ttoc members are have global announcements:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=330156


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Nem said:


> It's not vague at all. All current members received an email and both this forum and the ttoc members are have global announcements:
> 
> viewtopic.php?f=1&t=330156


Thanks Nick, not sure I got that email, can you email again please?

Thanks mate,

Rich


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

The email content was just the same as the announcement post.

In other news, topic reply notification email in 2 minutes!!!


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Nick, I saw that link thank you. 

But where on there does it allow for candidate proposals? Where does it allow anyone to propose a plan/manifesto pre-election?

Can you tell me what you plan for next year and do it on a public platform?

Maybe I missed something. If I have then I'm sure others have too. :wink:


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

> All members wishing to stand for a committee position need to send in their proposal of position along with a brief statement with why they wish to stand and any supporting information and include a TTOC members details to second this proposal. This need to be sent via email to [email protected] no later than Friday June 14th to allow all requests to be processed. On Friday June 21st the voting will open on the Members Area to allow all members 7 days to cast their votes. Voting will close at midnight Friday June 28th, the day before the AGM.


As for my thoughts on the next year, I've not yet submitted my intention to stand again. If/when I do it will be posted with any other members wishing to stand and include their proposals on the ttoc members area.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Nem said:


> > All members wishing to stand for a committee position need to send in their proposal of position along with a brief statement with why they wish to stand and any supporting information and include a TTOC members details to second this proposal. This need to be sent via email to [email protected] no later than Friday June 14th to allow all requests to be processed. On Friday June 21st the voting will open on the Members Area to allow all members 7 days to cast their votes. Voting will close at midnight Friday June 28th, the day before the AGM.
> 
> 
> As for my thoughts on the next year, I've not yet submitted my intention to stand again. If/when I do it will be posted with any other members wishing to stand and include their proposals on the ttoc members area.


That's good Nick but how do we all see the manifestos and proposals. I'd like to make a proposal so I need to be clearly informed how I do it. More importantly I want all members to view it. They may not like it but that's what the election is about.

Thanks,

rich


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

There are none yet to see, so I'm a little lost as to what you expect to be able to access now?

If you wish to stand you need to email the committee address with your proposal before the dates above and yours along with any other members standing will be posted up for all members to vote on.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Nem said:


> There are none yet to see, so I'm a little lost as to what you expect to be able to access now?


I would like to see what the candidates are each proposing, including yourself.

How can anyone vote otherwise - online especially?

So where can we see their proposals?


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

I'm not being funny rich but what are you trying to get at? Or what are to trying to trick me into saying?

You can't yet see any proposals as nobody has yet submitted their wish to be a candidate.

What they have they will be collated and on June 21st a thread for each committee position will be posted on the members area showing each candidate and their proposal and will all members to vote on their choice of person for each committee position.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Nem said:


> I'm not being funny rich but what are you trying to get at? Or what are to trying to trick me into saying?
> 
> You can't yet see any proposals as nobody has yet submitted their wish to be a candidate.
> 
> What they have they will be collated and on June 21st a thread for each committee position will be posted on the members area showing each candidate and their proposal and will all members to vote on their choice of person for each committee position.


I'm not trying to trick you or anyone Nick.

Normally people vote for committee members based upon what they propose. Do you understand that?

So, there has to be a vehicle for people to see their choices. Simple huh?

Equally there needs to be a very public thread inviting candidates. I can't see it and I'm on here a lot, so who else can?


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Are you missing the point that the process has yet to start ? Why would it be on here? The process will take place on our site

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Wallsendmag said:


> Are you missing the point that the process has yet to start ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


No. but when does it start? The day before the election?


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Wallsendmag said:


> Are you missing the point that the process has yet to start ? Why would it be on here? The process will take place on our site
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


If you want me to take the argument on to the forum that hides everything then I can!


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## Bartsimpsonhead (Aug 14, 2011)

I was wondering about the election process too.

Not being a regular reader of the TTOC site I'm afraid I'll miss any announcement on how to propose motions, who's standing and on what ticket, and how and when to vote. Hopefully they'll be an email direct to members or notifications on the TTF as to how and when these things will happen in enough time for members to submit motions, discuss, lobby and vote...


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

rustyintegrale said:


> Wallsendmag said:
> 
> 
> > Are you missing the point that the process has yet to start ? Why would it be on here? The process will take place on our site
> ...


We lets hope you can keep any future posts on the TTOC forum civil and not start threatening to knock members teeth out as you did yesterday


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

YELLOW_TT said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> > Wallsendmag said:
> ...


As you well know (if you've read the thread) I have made an apology and deleted the post. I have also made a private apology to Andrew requesting that he too removes reference to the post. He is currently refusing to do so until after the AGM. Why he has set that particular deadline is open to interpretation.

For your information Wallsendmag and I have always had 'difficulties' and his behaviour - particularly during the revolt earlier this year leaves much to be desired. Whenever I ask a 'difficult' question he goes out of his way to be obtuse and actually avoid the question. It was partly this obstructive attitude that led to my post yesterday. That coupled with my own bad mood I'm afraid.

Having said that I acknowledge that it was a stupid and childish thing to do. We all make mistakes and I am big enough to accept responsibility for them.

It's just a shame that some of those elected to act as representatives of the TT community do not have the balls to do the same.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

I've had a look on the TTOC site for a post somewhere explaining exactly how the voting process is to work but have struggled to find one. It may be it was all sent out in an e-mail but they can be easy to miss (or get blocked by spam filters) so it wouldn't do any harm to spell it out there in an easy to find sticky post.

Rick, my understanding of the process is as follows;

Nominations for each post need to be submitted by 21st June by e-mail. The nominee must obviously be a TTOC member and must be seconded by a TTOC member. Membership numbers for both should be provided. Together with that nomination you include a written proposal - basically your chance to pitch to the members and ask for their vote. That's limited to a certain number of words. I must confess I don't remember what was decided on so perhaps Nick can update you on that. A poll thread will then be opened on the TTOC site (one for each committee position) and the candidates' proposals will be posted on that thread for the consideration of the members. You won't know who else is standing until then (unless they want to declare it). The Club needs people to stand because they want to do the job - not as tactical candidates just to try and block someone else's election. The poll thread will stay open for an agreed period (I think it is a week but may be two - again Nick can confirm the details) during which we can all engage in debate on the thread with regards to the different candidate's proposals, and question the candidates regarding them. Each member will get one vote per poll. An automatic system is in place to ensure each member only votes once for each position, nor can members create multiple accounts. At the close of the poll the election is decided.

It's as simple as that.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Mark Davies said:


> It's as simple as that.


Thank you for that Mark. 

Now that the process has been clearly explained I agree, it really is as simple as that.

If Nick or someone else can fill-in the bits you don't know then that will make everything crystal clear.

Rich


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

I haven't received an email either, Nick.

So far the information about the voting process for anyone standing for a committee post is a bit hidden in the _EvenTT13, All the Details_ thread, which is on, both, TTF and TTOC members' area

*Committee Elections and Voting:*

This year all voting is to be conducted online via the TTOC Members Area. So it is imperative that as a member of the TTOC you need to be registered there to be able to cast your votes. Please visit http://www.ttoc.co.uk/members to sign up if you have not done so already. Registration here is free for all TTOC members but is unfortunately not done automatically on joining the Club.

All members wishing to stand for a committee position need to send in their proposal of position along with a brief statement with why they wish to stand and any supporting information and include a TTOC members details to second this proposal. This need to be sent via email to [email protected] no later than Friday June 14th to allow all requests to be processed. On Friday June 21st the voting will open on the Members Area to allow all members 7 days to cast their votes. Voting will close at midnight Friday June 28th, the day before the AGM.

The AGM will consist of the committee reports, including financial review, for the last year, the official announcement of the committee members voted in for 2013/2014, introduction and ideas for the coming year from the new committee, along with an open question and answer session.

If you are not able to attend the AGM you are of course welcome to email any matters you wish to raise to [email protected] for inclusion in the Q&A session.

Any major decisions arising from the evenings discussions will then be posted on the Members Area following the evenTT weekend to allow the whole membership the opportunity to discuss and vote upon before any action is taken.


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

I am sorry Rich but someone being obtuse and you being in a bad mood that has nothing to do with that person or the forum is no excuse for making threatening posts 
Didn't have the best of days myself yesterday next time i have a bad day would you recommend me coming or the TTF and have a go at someone to make myself better :?:


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

YELLOW_TT said:


> I am sorry Rich but someone being obtuse and you being in a bad mood that has nothing to do with that person or the forum is no excuse for making threatening posts
> Didn't have the best of days myself yesterday next time i have a bad day would you recommend me coming or the TTF and have a go at someone to make myself better :?:


Andy I agree. Which is why I accept responsibility for my actions and why I have apologised. I was not trying to make an excuse (I do not claim there is one) but I was trying to explain the background that led to it.

Once again I accept and acknowledge that I did wrong and I am sorry.


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## Ikon66 (Sep 12, 2003)

YELLOW_TT said:


> I am sorry Rich but someone being obtuse and you being in a bad mood that has nothing to do with that person or the forum is no excuse for making threatening posts
> Didn't have the best of days myself yesterday next time i have a bad day would you recommend me coming or the TTF and have a go at someone to make myself better :?:


seems to work for some members :roll: :wink:


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

rustyintegrale said:


> YELLOW_TT said:
> 
> 
> > I am sorry Rich but someone being obtuse and you being in a bad mood that has nothing to do with that person or the forum is no excuse for making threatening posts
> ...


You insult me, you insult my wife , you say sorry, how many times have you done this ? I'm sorry if you can't see why I can't let it go but this isn't the first or tenth time and I'm sure it won't be the last.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

A3DFU said:


> I haven't received an email either, Nick.
> 
> So far the information about the voting process for anyone standing for a committee post is a bit hidden in the _EvenTT13, All the Details_ thread, which is on, both, TTF and TTOC members' area
> 
> ...


Have a look in your spam folder the email is titled "EvenTT13 - All the Details" sent out 14th May


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Wallsendmag said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> > YELLOW_TT said:
> ...


And you spout unbelievable bullshit.

Where have I insulted you? Where have I insulted your wife? What's she got to do with any of it?

Regardless of anything, if you have an historical issue with me then deal with it privately. I have held an olive branch out to you so many times and you choose to ignore it every time.

For god's sake Andrew you really are attempting to make a mountain out of a molehill and you know it.


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## phil3012 (Jul 25, 2008)

I didn't think I'd received an e-mail about EvenTT13 (had seen it on the forums though) but on searching my inbox just now, it did find one and other about the competition.

Was there maybe a delay which resulting in it arriving late and people have missed it in their inboxes?

I tend to have hundreds of unread mails, so things that arrive more than a day or so after sending get missed.


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## Bartsimpsonhead (Aug 14, 2011)

Wallsendmag said:


> Have a look in your spam folder the email is titled "EvenTT13 - All the Details" sent out 14th May


Ahh, yes, there it is - tucked away at the end. I got a bit bored of the bits above it that didn't interest me and stopped reading before getting to it. Isn't something as important to the membership as voting on the committee not worthy of its own email?
I wonder how many others have missed it and will miss voting in the coming election...


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## MonTheFish (Jul 6, 2005)

rustyintegrale said:


> YELLOW_TT said:
> 
> 
> > I am sorry Rich but someone being obtuse and you being in a bad mood that has nothing to do with that person or the forum is no excuse for making threatening posts
> ...





rustyintegrale said:


> Where's MonTheFish?
> 
> You've been pretty harsh about me and we've never met. Let's meet.
> 
> I mean it. I want to deal with you.


So I'm guessing I had posted something pretty insulting to deserve this one then?


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

MonTheFish said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> > YELLOW_TT said:
> ...


Yes.


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## MonTheFish (Jul 6, 2005)

Well I'm glad it's eating you away inside. Couldn't happen to a nicer bloke in my opinion.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

MonTheFish said:


> Well I'm glad it's eating you away inside. Couldn't happen to a nicer block in my opinion.


It isn't at all. Nice to see you've finally learnt to type.


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## Ikon66 (Sep 12, 2003)

Lets not let this thread degenerate please!!


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Ikon66 said:


> Lets not let this thread degenerate please!!


Has it?

Did I miss some intelligent posting?


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Wallsendmag said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't received an email either, Nick.
> ...


Thanks Andrew, I already have. It's not in my spam folder and not in the bin either. The only email I received from the club on that day was about the Audi Driving Competition.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

MonTheFish said:


> Well I'm glad it's eating you away inside. Couldn't happen to a nicer bloke in my opinion.


Pillock.

You think you can get away with that by editing your glaring error.

That's the difference between you and I. I do it properly.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> Wallsendmag said:
> 
> 
> > Have a look in your spam folder the email is titled "EvenTT13 - All the Details" sent out 14th May
> ...


have to agree with this completely!!! as i would not be attending evenTT13 i just deleted that mail, not realising it had hidden within it all about the voting for the AGM........how silly of me not to have known it was in there somewhere


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Silly boy indeed :wink:


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

A3DFU said:


> Silly boy indeed :wink:


never know if guy on the handles that sorts out memberships might actually respond to my request of when my membership renewal is due.


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## Bartsimpsonhead (Aug 14, 2011)

Well, now membership is upto 900 members (according to the announcement on the TTOC Facebook page) I hope some sort of additional voting information is emailed out/posted on the TTOC/TTF/Facebook websites in a clear and straightforward manner - not buried at the bottom of another message. Anything less and the committee would be failing in its duty in notifying ALL the membership on the voting process/choices. And that wouldn't be constitutional, would it?

Though Douglas Adams got it just about right  
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/elections?page=1


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

Can I ask when exactly the decision was taken to go to electronic voting? I don't remember seeing this announcement before the EvenTT13 e-mail went out.

I have some doubts about how this will work based on what usually happens eg. A vote is called for a vacant committee post and no-one puts themselves forward or no-one gets a clear decision so another person is nominated. Someone who cares enough to turn up for the AGM and is likely to keep turning up to meetings. All this remote nomination and voting just all seems a bit... Virtual. It seems like you could end up with a committee who haven't met each other, who may even never actually meet. It just all seems a bit too much change too fast.

I'll wait and see what actually happens with the voting.

And then, of course, you get the question - "what's the point of an AGM if all the voting has already been carried out?" It just seems a total waste of club money to have an AGM where absolutely NOTHING can be changed because it's all already been voted on.

Or have I missed something?


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

What you've missed - like the vast majority of the membership in the past - is the AGM. In previous years we've rarely had more than a couple of dozen people attend. Plain and simple we are a club spread all over the UK and beyond and it simply isn't practical for most to get to a meeting. We've had postal voting offered before now but last year only a single vote was cast that way. Bottom line, the club has been extremely undemocratic, run by a committee of volunteers who more or less rubber-stamped their own appointment.

It was felt it was time to try and get the membership more involved in the running of their club.


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

Mark Davies said:


> What you've missed - like the vast majority of the membership in the past - is the AGM. In previous years we've rarely had more than a couple of dozen people attend. Plain and simple we are a club spread all over the UK and beyond and it simply isn't practical for most to get to a meeting. We've had postal voting offered before now but last year only a single vote was cast that way. Bottom line, the club has been extremely undemocratic, run by a committee of volunteers who more or less rubber-stamped their own appointment.
> 
> It was felt it was time to try and get the membership more involved in the running of their club.


That's fine. What I'm asking is when was the decision taken to go to e-voting and, given that the votes will be cast before the AGM, what is the purpose of the AGM as anything to discuss will have been discussed and it's entirely possible that new committee members could have been voted into place and not be at the AGM.

The whole purpose of any meeting is to allow active members to participate. I accept that you want to make it more inclusive and democratic, but what is being proposed is an e-vote with an expensive announcement ceremony. What's the point of going to an AGM where the actual committee may not be present because they could have been proposed and voted into place a week beforehand, but no-one will know?

I think this is very important because it looks to me like the current committee have been bounced into having a "democratic" election that, in reality, makes a mockery of democracy because it's not been properly thought through.

That's why I want to know when this decision was taken and I would like to see the meeting minutes discussing why the current options were selected.

It looks very much to me like the current committee are DESPERATE to get a democratic mandate and have set the system up in a hurry and like most things that are done in a rush, this all looks a bit.... Not quite thought through properly?


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

wja96 said:


> Mark Davies said:
> 
> 
> > What you've missed - like the vast majority of the membership in the past - is the AGM. In previous years we've rarely had more than a couple of dozen people attend. Plain and simple we are a club spread all over the UK and beyond and it simply isn't practical for most to get to a meeting. We've had postal voting offered before now but last year only a single vote was cast that way. Bottom line, the club has been extremely undemocratic, run by a committee of volunteers who more or less rubber-stamped their own appointment.
> ...


There was call for an Extraordinary General Meeting back in March this year for various reasons that are well documented on here and on the TTOC forum. After much debate and to save putting the organisation of EvenTT13 in jeopardy, it was agreed to postpone any proposition of a replacement committee until the AGM.

However you're right in your estimation of the situation - hence my original post. I cannot see how anyone can vote without knowing who the candidates are and more importantly what they hope to bring to the running of the club. Mark has tried to explain the process but there are still grey areas which he was hoping would be cleared up by Nick or other members of the committee.

Straightforward communication of a message has never been a TTOC strong point and it would appear that even when something as important as this is communicated, it is buried within notification of something else.

I'm not sure what can be done about this as we are at a very late stage in the game. However there is no excuse. The AGM has always been at this time of year and we have known since March that a new voting system will be put in place so those not attending the AGM can still exercise their right to vote.

I'm afraid it is wholly up to the committee to answer the question, and to clearly explain how the vehicle put in place to deliver what was agreed in March will work.


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