# George Best



## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

George Best may you rest in peace,

Such a tragic waste of life and talent, lost to alcoholism


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## TTotal (Aug 12, 2002)

:?

http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... sc&start=0


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## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

What a waste of a valuable donated organ.

Yes he was a great player in his hey day, but certainly he was not a role model in his later life.

However I do remember (with a smile) the classic Wogan interview when he was pi$$ed.


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## DW225 (Jun 22, 2005)

Hell of a quote though......

_*"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."*_

Dave 8)


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## vernan (May 27, 2002)

Oooh look, someone who played football's died. I expect Tony Blair will make a statement and we'll have a national two-minute silence.


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## r1 (Oct 31, 2002)




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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

Personally i find it really tragic, and if it takes someone famous to die to get the government to take a more serious look at this problem,

I have had first hand experience of this and it's not pleasant watching someone slowly destroy themselves and everyone around them.

Tony


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## r1 (Oct 31, 2002)

BAMTT said:


> Personally i find it really tragic, and if it takes someone famous to die to get the government to take a more serious look at this problem,


Not really tragic. He absolutely loved his lifestyle and when given a 2nd chance he fucked up again.

Even the government can't be blamed for it.
:?


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## TTotal (Aug 12, 2002)

BAMTT said:


> Personally i find it really tragic, and if it takes someone famous to die to get the government to take a more serious look at this problem,
> 
> I have had first hand experience of this and it's not pleasant watching someone slowly destroy themselves and everyone around them.
> 
> Tony


You have 1st hand experience?

I have the disease.....

Its a matter of personal choice whether you drink or not.

I chose to stop as I couldnt control it and I didnt want to hurt all the people around me , it is very easy to choose the alternative and the cowards way out but it takes all of your loved ones and you with it.

But the plus side for me is I have a TT instead of Â£1000 per month down the toilet and poor health.

I just hope that millions have seen how foolish he has been.


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## g-boy (Jun 3, 2005)

fucking hell people.

this guy single handedly made a generation of people happier every weekend. not many people, including everyone on thos message board can say that. he is a genius and a legend who will not be forgotten.

a dad has lost a son, and a son has lost a dad. i know what that is like.

he chose to do what he wanted with his life but he will be remebered as a role model for children everywhere who, with or without money, can make something magic of their lives.

he was in many ways, a prototype. look at how footballers are cared for now. people like giggs and beckham have learned and profited because of george best.

he may have made mistakes in his life but his contribution far far outweighs those mistakes.

George Best. THE best. A legend.


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## TTej (Sep 10, 2003)

may he rest in peace.

The irony in that the day a legend dies the government open bars for 24hours....

somethings not right


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## UlsTTer (Apr 28, 2005)

Whether George Best wasted his life or not, he was still the greatest footballer the UK has ever produced, I was fortunate to watch him play for Northern Ireland and Fulham on a few occassions.

alcoholism is an illness, and thats what Besty had .. an illness .. no more - no less. As G boy says he was a legend, he brought joy to millions all over the world, its a sad sad day for football and the world.

Georgie Boy - Simply the BEST !!!!


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## L8_0RGY (Sep 12, 2003)

vernan said:


> Oooh look, someone who played football's died. I expect Tony Blair will make a statement and we'll have a national two-minute silence.


Ahem...



> A minute's silence will be held before all Premiership and Football League games this weekend following the death of George Best


http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid ... e+for+Best

This is such a tragic waste like many others have said, but only of a liver. How there can be such extensive media coverage about a wife beating alcoholic who once played some good football for a few years (literally) is beyong me.

I am not a sadistic person, but good riddance - you squandered your skill, and life on alcohol and never recovered. As one journalist wrote today, 'the only opponent who ever beat Best was alcohol'.

May this be an example to those few who possess similar skills (Rooney, Gazza etc).


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## UlsTTer (Apr 28, 2005)

SO is it a waste of a lung to give one to a smoker that continues smoking?
Is it a waste to give a potential suicidal person resusitation?
Where does one draw the line ???

I know where you are coming from but for Gods sake, have a bit of human sympathy for the mans family if you can't for Besty himself !!!


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## TTotal (Aug 12, 2002)

UlsTTer said:


> SO is it a waste of a lung to give one to a smoker that continues smoking?
> 
> YES ...obviously, sick of seeing these wheezing wasters with a *** in their hand and an oxygen mask in the other :x
> 
> ...


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

A distinct lack of humanity in here 

I wouldn't defend his abuses in life or the excessive media coverage devoted to him, but he did have a charisma, wit and talent for the sport that's somewhat lacking in todays current crop of footy "stars"

I'll miss him

Dave


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## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

UlsTTer said:


> I know where you are coming from but for Gods sake, have a bit of human sympathy for the mans family if you can't for Besty himself !!!


What, so his family will be reading this will they? Good, cos the bloke was a cock who took the p1ss and deprived somebody more worthy of an organ that could have done some good instead of filtering his alcohol ridden p1ss!!

Yeah he played football and? Did he do good for humanity? - No. Did he contribute some miracle cure? - No. Will the world be a worse place without him? - No.

Sorry, but to raise the bloke to God like status really does my head in. He was an alcoholic, wife beating sportsman. Nothing more and nothing less. If you want to applaud that sort of human behaviour then there's more wrong with you than us people that are really quite glad he's passed!


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

> But the plus side for me is I have a TT instead of Â£1000 per month down the toilet and poor health.


Bloody hell, John? Â£1000 a month on booze? What the feck were you drinking? Veuve Cliquot Grande Dame? :wink:


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## TTotal (Aug 12, 2002)

jampott said:


> > But the plus side for me is I have a TT instead of Â£1000 per month down the toilet and poor health.
> 
> 
> Bloody hell, John? Â£1000 a month on booze? What the feck were you drinking? Veuve Cliquot Grande Dame? :wink:


No Tim

Lunchtime was 4 pints Stella
After work was 4 pints Stella
Couple of 3 finger whiskies before Dinner
Bottle wine with dinner
Couple more 3 finger whiskies after

Do the math.

Add on top of that 2 packs of **** , totals today about Â£40 per day = Â£1200 per month (That was 3 years ago so todays prices will be more)

Not boasting, just proud to say I kicked it, we are all capable of making choices. As you know drinking large amounts regularly means you need more and more to get the kick. Never got hangovers either...


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## jandrews (Feb 21, 2005)

UlsTTer said:


> SO is it a waste of a lung to give one to a smoker that continues smoking?
> Is it a waste to give a potential suicidal person resusitation?
> Where does one draw the line ???
> 
> I know where you are coming from but for Gods sake, have a bit of human sympathy for the mans family if you can't for Besty himself !!!


Sorry I have to agree with the previous posts.

I have sympathy for his friends and family, and any families who have had to deal with this problem in the past and going forward.

But the guy WAS a hero....but hasnt been for many years, he put himself and others through a lot of pain, with no thought other than for himself. He was an alcoholic, a wife beater and the 2nd half of his life has been a JOKE

I think it is an outrage that he was given a second chance and carried on, and you mention smokers, and suicide victims...

If you smoke now, you know it causes disease and it could kill you. Maybe you are aloud benefit of the doubt, or at least the same healthcare as everyone else. But only once....if you get new lungs and carry on smoking, no more healthcare for you...

If you are a drinker, get given a new liver, and you continue to drink, well then you deserve everything you get.

And drug addicts, go to rehab, kick the habit, and stop...but if you carry on....Then you should be left to get on with it, with no help from anyone.

At least when celebrities do it, they have to pay for their rehab themselves. But they are not using up valuable organs that others would be able to put to much better use.

And if you try to commit suicide, to leave your problems to be looked after by friends and relatives becuase you are too much of coward to deal with them yourself...you get patched up once, but thats it. After all if you want to die.....we may as well let you go. If you are selfish enough to try it once, and have no thought for the others around you, its a guarantee that you will do it again. Yes you could say that the people you leave behind will be affected for the rest of their lives. But it will be worse the second, third otr fourth time round.

Enough of this glorifying OLD heroes that have given nothing to anyone for the past ten years.

Goodbye and good ridance I say


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## r1 (Oct 31, 2002)

TTotal said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > > But the plus side for me is I have a TT instead of Â£1000 per month down the toilet and poor health.
> ...


Blimey.

Feel free to tell me to bugger off here as it's absolutely none of my business....

.....did you not get the afternoon hangovers kicking in? If I have 4 pints of stella at lunch (very very rarely), I feel awful by the time I go home...tired...dehydrated...headachey....and I certainly couldn't face drinking again once home. Was it ever like that with you?


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## TTotal (Aug 12, 2002)

Er no, never had a hangover at all at any time, probably because I was never sober.

And it certainly did not stop me starting later :?

So tell me to mind my own business....

Why dont you quit now before it is too late?

:wink:


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

jandrews said:


> Enough of this glorifying OLD heroes that have given nothing to anyone for the past ten years.
> 
> Goodbye and good ridance I say


Harsh in the extreme i would say!

We all need our heroes albeit fallen ones, regardless of what he did in his personal life the man brought great pleasure to a lot of people and someone with that much natural talent comes along once in a generation if your lucky.

RIP Georgie.

people are too bloody self-righteous on here!


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## TTotal (Aug 12, 2002)

digimeisTTer said:


> people are too bloody self-righteous on here!


and thats a bit harsh too Andy :? Come on we are all allowed an opinon mate


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## r1 (Oct 31, 2002)

TTotal said:


> Er no, never had a hangover at all at any time, probably because I was never sober.
> 
> And it certainly did not stop me starting later :?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the insight. 

The reason I wouldn't consider stopping is that I don't see it as being a 'before it's too late' situation. I'm fortunate enough to choose whether I have a drink or not. If I wasn't then I'd have to consider not drinking all together.


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## TTotal (Aug 12, 2002)

r1 said:


> TTotal said:
> 
> 
> > Er no, never had a hangover at all at any time, probably because I was never sober.
> ...


Mate, I certainly didnt want to come over "holier than thou" , sorry if it appears that way. My comment was very tongue in cheek, it was MY weekness and for those of you that can enjoy an odd drink I envy you all.

Cheers


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

TTotal said:


> r1 said:
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> 
> > TTotal said:
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Bloody reformed drinkers  Actually TTotal just think how many drinkers envy you for being able to stop. I have a mate that has a drink problem. Even though he doesnt see it... But when he has to drink every bit of booze that is in his house before he stops. IMO he has a problem. It's like he has a bag of toffees that after the first few they become to moorish and you have to eat the whole lot once youve started. Thats what hes like with drink. Buys a case of beer once hes started he has to drink the whole case before he goes to bed.


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## TTotal (Aug 12, 2002)

Thats exactly what happens.

When I was married I used to hide a lot of booze all over the place :? There was no stopping until it all went ...

I DO hope that some one listens and heads my warning thats all. I'll shut up now.


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## r1 (Oct 31, 2002)

TTotal said:


> r1 said:
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> > TTotal said:
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No probs - you didn't come over like that at all.

There was a classic post on pistonheads the other week where someone wanted to cut down boozing. Someone suggested using the 'CAGE' technique to judge them, 3 or more 'yes's and you need to worry:

C- Cut down- have you tried to cut down your drinking lately 
A- Annoyed- Are you or other people annoyed with how much you drink? 
G- Guilty- Do you feel guilty about the amount you drink? 
E- Eye-opener- do you drink first thing in the morning.

And the repsonse was:


> C - Not yet
> A - Yes
> G - Yes
> N - No
> ...


 :lol: :lol:


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## TTotal (Aug 12, 2002)

Quote:

C - Not yet 
A - Yes 
G - Yes 
N - No

LOFL! :lol: He must have been pissed. :roll:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

I'd have switched to a nice vodka... :lol:


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## jandrews (Feb 21, 2005)

TTotal said:


> digimeisTTer said:
> 
> 
> > people are too bloody self-righteous on here!
> ...


How do you mean harsh...

I accepted that he WAS a hero....and that he bought happiness to many peoples lives.

BUT...and its a big BUT.

That was 30 years ago.....he played football...didn't cure cancer, or invent the light bulb.....yes he was the greatest footballer we've had so far...But that doesnt excuse the fact that he wasted his life and the love of his family in the past 30 years. Alcohol abuse and wife-beating are not the sort of qualities that I would like my kids to look up to if they were football fanatics.

So good riddance to the enormous drain on the heatlh system, he who had no repsect for those trying to save his life, and the many others who lost out becuase he was taking up valueable time of doctors, nurses and the resources available to the others who needed help more and those who would have appreciated it more.

I would feel the same if this was a sibling or parent......and glorifying the man for past accomplishments (and no offence sports fans but he was a footballer and thats it) is in my opinion just goes to show how ignorant some people are.


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

jandrews said:


> TTotal said:
> 
> 
> > digimeisTTer said:
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To some people he may have well cured cancer......I think of the people that he brought happiness to on a Saturday after noon. He gave people their escape from their day to day life. Do i exagerate. You make think so, but to passionate sports fans he was nothing short of a god. Yes after his footballing days he abused himself but like i said on another thread. He doesnt blame anyone and knows the blame rested with him. The guy had a drink problem that he could not kick. Was it his fault for being to weak to give it up. Maybe. But as football is some peoples escape from the normal crap of day to day life, drink was his which sadly cost him his death. As for the media attention he got...Do you think he has asked for people to follow him around just so they could grab a photo of him drinking.

As for a drain on the health system. I hope you don't have medical problems because i would sure hate you to drain my contribution to the Health system. :x What do you think he paid his taxes for ( A damn site more than any of us have paid ). His right to be cared for and treated regardless of if its self inflicted or not.

As for ignorance your demostrating your own by thinking that people should all be straight and not get into these problems. F   k that life is not that rosy.


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## jandrews (Feb 21, 2005)

Duckie

Thats not what I said at all...I totally understand that people get into these problems, but it is not the fault of society or anyoneone else once they have had help with the problem ths first time round.

Also, I may have confused things slightly, but I meant he was a drain on the system in the fact that he had taken a liver which a child or someone may have used...

Yes he is entitled to the use of the health system as you have correctly stated, this is what he has paid his taxes for....

But this doesnt excuse the fact that he continually endangered his own heatlh, only to be patched up again by a health system already stretched to the limit with very sick people who seriously want to get better.

And you have to bear in mind I am only voicing my opinion and I rightly accept that everyone else has theirs.

Jon


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

He never blamed society or anyone else.......He had always said that blame laid at his own door. Yes he didnt take notice of the warnings that were told to him even after the liver transplant. referring back to his doctor telling him that one more drink will kill you. But he was suffering from a illness that he was mentally to weak to kick. For that he had blamed himself. Some people have the will while others don't. Not everyone is the same. unfortunatly he was one of those that didn't have the will. As the the liver do you know for sure that it cold have been used in someone else. If there was a child that had needed it regardless of his Status the child would have got it. Human parts arnt like meat at a store where you can put them in a freezer and take them out when you need them.

It's a sad end to someone that was once a Great! and will hopefully be remembered for the good rather than his bad.


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## g-boy (Jun 3, 2005)

genocidalduck said:


> jandrews said:
> 
> 
> > TTotal said:
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spot on pal, what people have to remember is that celebrity and fame reap massive amounts of money yes, but they also reap equal amounts of pressures and temptations that many normal folk, jandrews exempt, simply can't deal with properly.

when you grow up you aren't taught how to deal with masses amounts of money, adulation and free time. it may seem like an ideal life but it can have awful consequences.

remeber Tony Adams, Paul Merson, Gazza, Maradona and countless others that came AFTER Besty. George was THE first. Nobody (like an Alex Ferguson) put an arm round him and told him how he should conduct himslef because simply, nobody knew what the consequences would be. George was the first real pop star. The Beatles and the Rolling Stones also had their moments and it amazes me how they didnt go the way of Georgie.

Today the stars have endless amounts of support and guidance. This came BECAUSE of George Best and his tribulations.

George has, in his own way, saved football's greatest stars, none of whom have ever come close to his genius.


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## jandrews (Feb 21, 2005)

g-boy said:


> genocidalduck said:
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> 
> > jandrews said:
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Don't talk such utter tripe G-Boy

There were plenty of celebrities and rich people before Best with drink and drug problems, and there will always be people with drink and drug problems after Best.

And the problem is not just to do with guidance.... he knew back then that he had started down a destructive path, and he had the ability to change his ways. For years he has been told to stop drinking but all to no avail. He ignored all the warnings from friends, family and doctors and this cost him his life, and I have no sympathy for him...and as I have said before, if this was someone close to me I would feel the same, be it friends or family.

All to often people try to blame money or fame or the celebrity factor...thatâ€™s rubbish. I know plenty of people living in 4 or 5 million pound homes with very flash cars and more money than they will possibly ever need, they have had money for a while and donâ€™t take drugs, or have a raging alcohol problem. So please donâ€™t play the money pressure card because that just doesnâ€™t cut it.

I don't doubt for one second that I would change if I were thrust into a life where money wasnâ€™t an object...but if you are taking the view that this gives some excuse.... I suppose you think the king of Chavs - Mike Carrol - is also excused for his actions.

Grow up, live in the real world, and know that you excusing this sort of behavior, be it past or present means that it will continue


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

> All to often people try to blame money or fame or the celebrity factor...thatâ€™s rubbish. I know plenty of people living in 4 or 5 million pound homes with very flash cars and more money than they will possibly ever need, they have had money for a while and donâ€™t take drugs, or have a raging alcohol problem. So please donâ€™t play the money pressure card because that just doesnâ€™t cut it.


FFS Best never blamed money fame etc etc blah blah blah on his drink problem........He was a addict pure and simple he knows he was....Have you ever suffered from addiction problems Jon. Because if you did you might understand the beast abit more than just belching out your opinion.

Now for the last time.......Best never blames his celebrity on drinking!


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## TTotal (Aug 12, 2002)

Will someone please give me a money problem ? Then I will find out whether its true......


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

TTotal said:


> Will someone please give me a money problem ? Then I will find out whether its true......


Now that would be a nice problem to have


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## jandrews (Feb 21, 2005)

genocidalduck said:


> > All to often people try to blame money or fame or the celebrity factor...thatâ€™s rubbish. I know plenty of people living in 4 or 5 million pound homes with very flash cars and more money than they will possibly ever need, they have had money for a while and donâ€™t take drugs, or have a raging alcohol problem. So please donâ€™t play the money pressure card because that just doesnâ€™t cut it.
> 
> 
> FFS Best never blamed money fame etc etc blah blah blah on his drink problem........He was a addict pure and simple he knows he was....Have you ever suffered from addiction problems Jon. Because if you did you might understand the beast abit more than just belching out your opinion.
> ...


If you read my post correctly, you would see that I actually was saying that celebrity is often used as an excuse......someone else commented that money was the thing that caused the probelm.

I agree with you, it was an addiction that he had.....and I agree that it is not an easy thing to shake off. But if you have actually been reading my posts on this subject...you would understand that my point the whole time is that glorifying this man, when he hasnt played football for almost 30 years, and has in fact been known more for the fact that he has squandered his life, money and a new organ, and been repeatedly involved in wife beating stiories.....is a joke.

Plain and simple

And no, I have never had an addiction....but i know many who have had, I dont pity any of them....i kow I'm taking a very black and white view, but thats my view and my opinion....


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

And you have the press to thank for making him famous for his drinking...I will remember him frm all the videos ive seen off him playing football......He may have been stupid in his personal life but he was a genius on the pitch....Just a shame he stopped his career short.

As for you having no sympathy for people that suther from addiction, obviously that is up to you, but it's easy to get hooked but bloody hard to let go off. I have sympathy for these people. Do you really think that the majority of them want to live there life like that.


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## TTotal (Aug 12, 2002)

genocidalduck said:


> As for you having no sympathy for people that suther from addiction, obviously that is up to you, *but it's easy to get hooked *but bloody hard to let go off. I have sympathy for these people. Do you really think that the majority of them want to live there life like that.


I assure you that in my case it was way too easy, but for others it is much harder to get addicted.

The majority? I would say ALL of us who are addicted do not want to be stuck with such a problem :?

PS quit or not we are still addicts - I dare not stray, not a drop ever or I will be off again.


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

TTotal said:


> genocidalduck said:
> 
> 
> > As for you having no sympathy for people that suther from addiction, obviously that is up to you, *but it's easy to get hooked *but bloody hard to let go off. I have sympathy for these people. Do you really think that the majority of them want to live there life like that.
> ...


I can relate but with a different kind of substance....But ive been good for 3 years


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## jandrews (Feb 21, 2005)

TTotal said:


> genocidalduck said:
> 
> 
> > As for you having no sympathy for people that suther from addiction, obviously that is up to you, *but it's easy to get hooked *but bloody hard to let go off. I have sympathy for these people. Do you really think that the majority of them want to live there life like that.
> ...


Now I can totally appreciate where TTotal is coming from and commend him highly for his honestly........


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## TTotal (Aug 12, 2002)

Cheers, last ciggy when the TT arrived on October 3rd 2002 5.35pm and last drink July 30th 2002 3.00 pm.

Dry and squeeky me :lol:


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

jandrews said:


> But if you have actually been reading my posts on this subject...you would understand that my point the whole time is that *glorifying* this man, when he hasnt played football for almost 30 years, and has in fact been known more for the fact that he has squandered his life, money and a new organ, and been repeatedly involved in wife beating stiories.....is a joke.


Your posts clearly reflect your character and anyone that says "goodbye & good riddance" to somebody who has recently died (unless they were a murderer/rapist etc.) clearly has no compassion for fellow man.

No one was glorifying his excess' merely paying respect to an exceptional talent in their particular profession, it has bugger all to do with his personal life - GET IT?


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

digimeisTTer said:


> jandrews said:
> 
> 
> > But if you have actually been reading my posts on this subject...you would understand that my point the whole time is that *glorifying* this man, when he hasnt played football for almost 30 years, and has in fact been known more for the fact that he has squandered his life, money and a new organ, and been repeatedly involved in wife beating stiories.....is a joke.
> ...


Now thats what i should have said in the first place.

Nice post!


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## jandrews (Feb 21, 2005)

No I dont get it, the guy WASTED the last 20 years of his life on booze...........period...now do YOU get where i am coming from....

He gave nothing, and took, the love, care and resources....and these were all wasted on him....

That is what I'm saying


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

jandrews said:


> No I dont get it, the guy WASTED the last 20 years of his life on booze...........period...now do YOU get where i am coming from....


Unfortunately i think we all do :roll:


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## g-boy (Jun 3, 2005)

jandrews said:


> g-boy said:
> 
> 
> > genocidalduck said:
> ...


mate, if the world was full of people like you then we'd all be alcoholic.

any bets you'd actually prefer to have alcoholics locked up in prison or given capital punishment?

would you mete out the same punishment to mentally disabled people?

alcoholism is essentially a mental problem. in order to give up drinking you have to win the battle in your head. it is fundamentally much easier to disregard and ingnore mental weakness or disability because in truth, it frightens a lot of people who have never had such problems.

you're attitude is that "if i'm not an alcoholic then why should anyone else be?"

absolute narrow-minded bullcrap.

the only way to beat alcoholism is with unconditional support not your attitude that would have George Best locked in a room cold turkey.

George Best was the pinnacle of fame in an era of unprecedented celebrity. Yet Best was paradoxically shy. He was also unprepared for such attention. The 'rich' people you know may well be wealthy but they have a life of routine and privacy. Best did not have these things.

Consequently, George Best's drinking problem probably involved depression. The populist, easy attidue that you convey makes those with periodical mental problems feel as though they are somehow not normal or even unliked. society is a patchwork of all sorts of people. some are enormously gifted but everyone has flaws. only society can help people with mental illness.

the truth is that a LOT of people suffer mental problems, some minor some not. some that include drug use (alcohol included) and some that don't. these people are closer to you that you think, one day it might be you. i tell you, in that situation you'd want support from those around you.

i'm not excusing George Best, i'm explaining what drove his alcoholism and mental illness. George Best may have seemed happy on the outside but self-destruction is often not a conscious effort, it lies in the sub-conscious, where most people's problems lay.

i think that _you_ should live in the real world and realise that denying alcoholism or ostracizing people with mental problems is a horribly naive and imature attitude.


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