# The art of overtaking is dying



## HeroicBroccoli (Jan 19, 2015)

Driving back from Aberdeen today, following a lovely old Roman road, completely flat and completely straight, the rain had stopped and the sun was shining.

Unfortunately, there was two coal/waste lorries at the front of the queue doing 40mph along this road (a 60mph with two lanes divided by white lines) and a queue of 5 cars behind them.

So I followed these people along at 40 through the valleys for 3 miles, then this huge long stretch appears, I tap my Satnav and I can see it's another 16 miles to my turning and the road just seems to go on and on and on, with nothing coming the other way.

I think to myself; "great, everyone can nip around these lorries and we will all be on our way".

I keep thinking this for one mile, two miles, three miles, we see our first car coming the other way, four miles, five miles, still straight and satnav is saying that there still another 10 miles to my turning so I just drop a gear on the DSG and power past all five cars and the two lorries and off I go.

As soon as I do that the car who was infront of me (car 5 in the queue) does the same but that's it.

WHY DO YOU NO OVERTAKE!


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## Ben5029 (Sep 26, 2014)

You're starting to see this more and more on the roads it's like people are scared to overtake. I think a lot of people have lost the ability to judge distances of oncoming vehicles / bends and if the gap is suitable to overtake in. Obviously this doesn't apply in your case as the road was ideal for it.

Mind you do still see a few idiots who just use blind luck to overtake.


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## Otley (May 15, 2013)

Totally agree, some people just don't get it, they'll sit so close to the back of the wagon in that situation they can't see the straight road in front. If they dropped back a touch and positioned themselves correctly they'd have a decent view. [smiley=bomb.gif] 
Cautionary tale though...
Similar situation, agricultural tractor and trailer up front, 6 cars following close behind, none willing to overtake. My chum saw the opportunity to pass them all in one leap on his Ducati 998R. He got to the middle of the trailer when the farmer decided (without looking or indicating) to turn right into his gated field entrance, gate closed so he would be totally blocking the road utill he had got out to open the gate! Police report said my chum was only going at 36mph at the point of impact. Flight in the North East Air Ambulance, multiple broken bones and a few less body parts than he set off with that day! [smiley=bigcry.gif] 
It might look like an easy nip past but PLEASE make sure, there's a whole heap of pain if it goes t1ts up. :!:


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

I think this is part of the reason people can be reluctant to overtake. No matter how careful you are, and how many factors you think you've taken into account, even on roads that you know like the back of your hand, you can never completely predict the behaviour of other drivers.

I know people who never overtake and will just sit behind a slow vehicle. Although I would be looking for an opportunity to get past them in that situation, I can't really criticise them for making a choice that they feel most comfortable with.


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## Otley (May 15, 2013)

I suppose you're right, if they don't feel comfortable overtaking. In a situation like that, if the driver doesn't want to overtake and can see there's a queue building up behind, surely it would be safer to pull in and let those who are willing to take a punt do so. They've only one vehicle to pass then, reducing the risk.


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## Ben5029 (Sep 26, 2014)

I understand that people don't always want to overtake but they could be courteous to other road users and leave room for you to overtake them and then the lorry etc.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, Alot of these low powered Eco friendly cars probably don't have enough power to overtake. :lol: 
Hoggy.


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## cherie (Oct 23, 2014)

I completely understand people who don't overtake. Their car just might not have the oomph needed to do so safely. I'm happy to sit back and follow slowly if need be, watching my mpg rise in the process. :lol:

At the other end of the spectrum are the idiots who overtake when shouldn't; the ones who overtake everyone in sight, eespecially when it's not safe or even legal to do so. They're the ones that really make my blood boil, putting everyone else at risk just to get to thier destination a minute or two earlier.


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## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

They don't even teach you how to overtake, because it's not in the stupid driving test. I still say motorcycle training should be compulsory. Learn observation, road position and thinking ahead like your life depends on it.


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## Livia329 (Jan 24, 2015)

I rarely over take, especially in the car. More so on the bike. I've only recently had cars with a decent amount of power, so that affected things too.

But I've also had many close calls due to people other side of the road overtaking when they shouldn't and almost hitting me head on at 60+ and that'd hurt... For the sake of getting past one car. Puts me off bothering. I just end up asking myself am I really in that much of a rush? The answer is usually no. If other people want to, that's fine, I'll open up the gap for them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TomBorehamUK (Feb 2, 2014)

Pugwash69 said:


> They don't even teach you how to overtake, because it's not in the stupid driving test. I still say motorcycle training should be compulsory. Learn observation, road position and thinking ahead like your life depends on it.


Not sure if it was purely my instructor, but overtaking was a lesson in itself when I was learning, as apparently failing to overtake in your test could be deemed "lack of progression" for example when being stuck behind someone doing 30 on a NSL road.


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## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

My instructor told me how to overtake in his car once, but it was a rare example on the way back from a lesson. Certainly taking my test around Kings Lynn there was no opportunity to do it.


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

Pugwash69 said:


> My instructor told me how to overtake in his car once, but it was a rare example on the way back from a lesson. Certainly taking my test around Kings Lynn there was no opportunity to do it.


I did the Met Police bikesafe day a few years ago. All about riding defensively, road positioning, visibility and safety in the morning, then in the afternoon out (following mostly) a cop on a fully marked BMW, and it was all about making progress. Really sharpened my observation skills and awareness, Don't think he missed one opportunity to overtake (but safely). Improved my car skills as well.


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## HeroicBroccoli (Jan 19, 2015)

It's not the no one was overtaking that bothers me, I get that some people are more nervous/don't know how/can't in their car, but either pulling over when you've been doing this for miles or at the very least leaving a gap when you can see the car behind you is looking to overtake, instead of all driving nose to tail.

I've ridden bikes before so I'm pretty comfortable with driving/riding defensively, it's not about the rush for me, it's about enjoying the drive, enjoying the road, enjoying the view, which is hard to do in a queue


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## Ben5029 (Sep 26, 2014)

Pugwash69 said:


> They don't even teach you how to overtake, because it's not in the stupid driving test. I still say motorcycle training should be compulsory. Learn observation, road position and thinking ahead like your life depends on it.


This, I couldn't agree more.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Pulling over is a bit pointless unless you're the car/lorry at the front that's causing the queue - your space will just be filled by someone else and the overall speed won't change.

But leaving reasonable gaps is just common courtesy I think. Unfortunately most people just don't think that far ahead, and a small minority actually develop a mentality that if they're not overtaking, no one else should - these are the people who see a car at the back pull out to overtake and instantly accelerate to close whatever gap was there to begin with because they feel that you're doing something wrong and they want to teach you a (potentially lethal) lesson.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Spandex said:


> Pulling over is a bit pointless unless you're the car/lorry at the front that's causing the queue - your space will just be filled by someone else and the overall speed won't change.
> 
> But leaving reasonable gaps is just common courtesy I think. Unfortunately most people just don't think that far ahead, and a small minority actually develop a mentality that if they're not overtaking, no one else should - these are the people who see a car at the back pull out to overtake and instantly accelerate to close whatever gap was there to begin with because they feel that you're doing something wrong and they want to teach you a (potentially lethal) lesson.


I was just about to say the same thing about leaving gaps and that strange gap closing mentality of thou shall not pass.

There are too many crocodiles forming behind slow vehicles with no gaps effectively making one long slow moving vehicle.

It's refreshing to see signs in Scotland down single track roads instructing drivers to allow overtaking. It's annoying being stuck behind a slow moving vehicle watching multiple opportunities for them to have pulled over a bit to allow you to pass, being ignored, yet they manage to keep left for oncoming vehicles obviously.


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

then you get the brainacs who overtake a lorry on the motorway in the pissing rain, then just sit, ACTUALLY SIT in the spray terrified to go further. [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I do a lot of non TT miles

I overtake and drive quickly in my TT all the time.

In Ola's car I drive slowly and don't bother overtaking as the car bores me and is gutless.

In the works van I drive normally get overtaken pretty often and I'm nearly always behind them or in view of them at the next roundabout.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

I think an increase in the amount of downgrades from 60 mph to 50 mph limits has increased the membership of the 40 mph club for two reasons: (1) People who would have driven previously at 50 mph in a 60 mph now drive at 40 mph slowing everybody down and causing more congestion. (2) Some who would previously have overtaken at 60 mph now think there's not enough time to overtake the crocodile without breaking the lower limit and join in.


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## HeroicBroccoli (Jan 19, 2015)

John-H said:


> I think an increase in the amount of downgrades from 60 mph to 50 mph limits has increased the membership of the 40 mph club for two reasons: (1) People who would have driven previously at 50 mph in a 60 mph now drive at 40 mph slowing everybody down and causing more congestion. (2) Some who would previously have overtaken at 60 mph now think there's not enough time to overtake the crocodile without breaking the lower limit and join in.


Don't even start on this, where I live there is a long stretch of country road which does 60mph, 50mph, 40mph then 30mph, followed by 5 miles of 40 before reverting back to 60mph.

For some reason, nearly everyone, seems to do 40mph through the whole lot regardless or being 20/10mph under or 10mph over the speed limit, drives me crazy.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

I used to think people just used 40mph as their default 'I don't know what the speed limit is' speed, but around here they still all slow down for the 30mph speed cameras then speed back up to 40mph afterwards, so they must know. They must just REALLY like 40mph...


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

It's the 40 mph club. I recon they are in league with other annoying groups e.g. the, "I'm turning right in three miles so I'll hog the right lane now", group, not to mention the middle lane motorway hoggers and the uninterruptible fog light brigade. I also recon they have a funny handshake and do unspeakable things with warning triangles in the evening.


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## HeroicBroccoli (Jan 19, 2015)

John-H said:


> It's the 40 mph club. I recon they are in league with other annoying groups e.g. the, "I'm turning right in three miles so I'll hog the right lane now", group, not to mention the middle lane motorway hoggers and the uninterruptible fog light brigade. I also recon they have a funny handshake and do unspeakable things with warning triangles in the evening.


Middle lane hoggers can be so much fun, overtake in the right hand lane, indicate, go left to the left hand lane, slowy decrease speed until you're behind them, then indicate and go right and overtake, repeat until they realise you're doing circles around them, plus no real danger involved


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

HeroicBroccoli said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> > It's the 40 mph club. I recon they are in league with other annoying groups e.g. the, "I'm turning right in three miles so I'll hog the right lane now", group, not to mention the middle lane motorway hoggers and the uninterruptible fog light brigade. I also recon they have a funny handshake and do unspeakable things with warning triangles in the evening.
> ...


I once did that to a man in a Trilby hat - oblivious! :lol:


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## Otley (May 15, 2013)

John-H said:


> HeroicBroccoli said:
> 
> 
> > John-H said:
> ...


Was there a particular reason we needed to know you were wearing a Trilby? :lol:


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## 1781cc (Jan 25, 2015)

There is a road near me that is the same, people bunch up and I wondered for ages why nobody bothered to overtake, then a car flew past me and about 4 others as well as the truck holding us all up... off he went, except, I saw a few seconds later a copper by the side of the road with a speed gun! oops

Sometimes if don't know the road well enough speed-trap wise I don't bother.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Otley said:


> ...
> Was there a particular reason we needed to know you were wearing a Trilby? :lol:


Ooh! There's always one waiting to pounce :lol:


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

The A3 leading into / out of London between Richmond Park & Chessington is a great example of where they have screwed it up with a lower limit.

It used to be NSL (proper dual carriageway, Central barrier, 3 lanes each way) and people going slow stayed in inside lane, those a bit faster in the middle, and if you wanted to overtake / go at 70 (ish) as NSL, you used the outside lane.
Few years ago they stuck a 50 limit on it, now you are stuck at 45 if you're lucky as everyone is sitting at the same speed in all lanes.

To make it worse, they have taken some speed cameras out (after they were burnt out) and many numpties, doing 45 still jump on the brakes as they see the lines on the road, even though they are below 50 and the cameras are no longer there.
Slows it down even more.


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## Trackdaybob (Jan 30, 2015)

Problem with a lot of people is nowadays the comfort default speed is 40 mph for whatever reason.
Lot and lots of people are falling for the good old government 'speed kills' propaganda hence lots of headlight flashing when you overtake them :lol: 
I don't actually mind people who don't overtake as long as they leave room for you to should you want. 
Only had my TT a week now but it's great being able to overtake again. I don't overtake in my van very often. Those I do overtake in my van should be ashamed of themselves though :lol:


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## ades tt 180 (Jun 19, 2011)

Did you know that the speed limit for a hgv on a single lane road is 40 mph regardless of higher speed limit signs.


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## Trackdaybob (Jan 30, 2015)

ades tt 180 said:


> Did you know that the speed limit for a hgv on a single lane road is 40 mph regardless of higher speed limit signs.


Yes.
And did you know that on the A9, they're currently trying a 50mph limit for HGV's to alleviate the tailbacks?


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

TomBorehamUK said:


> Pugwash69 said:
> 
> 
> > They don't even teach you how to overtake, because it's not in the stupid driving test. I still say motorcycle training should be compulsory. Learn observation, road position and thinking ahead like your life depends on it.
> ...


 +1


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## pas_55 (May 9, 2002)

Also,roundabouts people seem to have forgotten how they work ie who has right of way


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## Jcb. (Aug 21, 2011)

Agreed RE: judging distance. All too often you sit forever waiting to join a roundabout waiting for one or two particular drivers to emerge at the front of the queue.

Output may have something to do with it, but then only this morning I safely overtook 3 cars and a lorry with about 30 seconds to spare until the next oncoming car (40mph HGV on NSL road) and I only drive 75ps Fabia diesel. Likely every car I overtook had more power, yet still all sat there when I had made the pass.

I personally think there is a strong defeatist attitude evident on roads nowadays. You either find people driving so passively they are barely paying attention, or you get people who are driving incredibly aggressively, almost in anger or frustration. Rarely do you find the middle ground of a driver happy to make decent progress when safe. Our road laws and system don't really promote using one's own initiative.


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## clewb (Aug 8, 2014)

John-H said:


> I think an increase in the amount of downgrades from 60 mph to 50 mph limits has increased the membership of the 40 mph club for two reasons: (1) People who would have driven previously at 50 mph in a 60 mph now drive at 40 mph slowing everybody down and causing more congestion. (2) Some who would previously have overtaken at 60 mph now think there's not enough time to overtake the crocodile without breaking the lower limit and join in.


Have to admit if I'm going to pass someone I don't worry about speed limit too much a safe pass is more important.


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## Trackdaybob (Jan 30, 2015)

clewb said:


> Have to admit if I'm going to pass someone I don't worry about speed limit too much a safe pass is more important.


Same here. Out, pass, in again, as quick as I can. Then get back down to a decent legal(ish) speed :wink:


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## stillchillin (Oct 29, 2009)

Ben5029 said:


> I understand that people don't always want to overtake but they could be courteous to other road users and leave room for you to overtake them and then the lorry etc.


Totally agree with this comment...


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Very true.


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## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

Overtaking on a bike is very different and more about judging what the car drivers are going to do.

On one road between Thrapston and Peterborough there's a dead straight section with curves both ends. I came up on a queue of 5 or 6 cars following a truck and overtook the lot of them. I will never understand why none of the cars were doing this.

On the A15 around Peterborough towards Werrington once I was doing *some* mph when I came upon a car, very gradually overtaking another car. It was like when you see trucks racing trucks, so I stupidly went inbetween them. Oops! Made me laugh at the time though.

On a ride back from Spalding one day I caught up with a queue of cars following a tractor. A common thing here. Coming the opposite way was another tractor with a queue of cars behind it. I had time to overtake my side's queue complete with plenty of room because the opposite side was also going so slowly.

Some of these things you could do in a car but people just don't!


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