# More Power- Con Rod Questions



## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

Hi Guys, well exciting times ahead for me as in the next 6-7 weeks i plan to up the power on my already 277bhp to 320-330 bhp, i plan to do this with a relentless v4 manifold, BBT K04 hybrid K418T turbo and a snow performance water/meth injection system, and then Wak will bring it all together with his magic  but i realise this will put a strain on the con rods, i have the 225 apx engine which i do believe have the forged rods, so the things i would like to find out are,,, what is a safe (as safe can be when your modding) bhp figure to aim for, the turbo i am buying has potential for 365bhp, also if i have forged con rods what would be an upgrade from them and finally for now  how much would an indie garage roughly charge to do a con rod swap or roughly how many hours to do a job like that , big thanks


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Got my rods from CTSturbo dude.....

Don't forget that you want rifle-drilled

Mine were part numbered IERHVA1-RD

Daz


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## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

DazWaite said:


> Got my rods from CTSturbo dude.....
> 
> Don't forget that you want rifle-drilled
> 
> ...


Ok thanks, nice one Daz, i will check those out, did you just have the con rods done or was it part of an engine build


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

I completely rebuilt my engine dude.....

Daz


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## cam69 (Dec 22, 2011)

It would be a good idea to have h beam rods but if your staying on stock rods then wak will keep the torque down in the midrange and give you a nice smooth power delivery. It's big boost spikes at low rpm that bent these rods. But fit rods if you want to get the best midrange torque out of your setup.


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## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

.................................................................................................


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

You don't need a hybrid to hit 320bhp... lol


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## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

OEM rods are not forged.


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## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

cam69 said:


> It would be a good idea to have h beam rods but if your staying on stock rods then wak will keep the torque down in the midrange and give you a nice smooth power delivery. It's big boost spikes at low rpm that bent these rods. But fit rods if you want to get the best midrange torque out of your setup.


 Hi Cam, i plan to run standard rods at first, then when i get bored of the new power as you do  i will then get rods done and then crank the turbo up, i will look into the h beam rods cheers


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## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

TTVince said:


> I would say your man Wak is the guy to talk to on this subject.
> But from the research I've done on the APX code. Is it's good for 340bhp on its standard crank rods & pins. What you need to achieve that is a larger turbo and slightly larger injectors.
> As I understand it the APX was a group B rally motor and all 800 or so we're dumped into the first 225 TT.
> When I've finished modding mine and my cold has fecked off, I shall take it to Wak for a 280bhp map. That's keeping it safe I recon.
> ...


Hi Vince, 340hp sounds good, so 320 should be safe-ish, your luv your Wak remap


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## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> You don't need a hybrid to hit 320bhp... lol


Hi Gonzalo, you do if you want to go further in the near future


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## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

CollecTTor said:


> OEM rods are not forged.


Are you sure,,, is this right :? :?


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## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

............................................................................


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

The standard rods bend easy lol....

Whilst people go on about high bhp figures it means nothing.....

What you want is torque and these standard rods don't like torque over 300lbs/ft

I'd rather have 300bhp with 400lbs/ft torque than 400bhp with 300lbs/ft torque !!!

Daz


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

peartcart12 said:


> TTVince said:
> 
> 
> > I would say your man Wak is the guy to talk to on this subject.
> ...


More than safe if you're running WMI pal! (provided you have fail safes for the WMI).


peartcart12 said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > You don't need a hybrid to hit 320bhp... lol
> ...


You didn't mention this from the get go :wink: 
What is your ultimate realistic goal then? You could hit high numbers with the K04, and if you end up doing the rods, you could crank up the boost on the K04 to a lot more. (Although 30ish psi is really where it starts to loose efficiency). In which case you would need to go hybrid for more.


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

DazWaite said:


> The standard rods bend easy lol....
> 
> Whilst people go on about high bhp figures it means nothing.....
> 
> ...


Erm where did you get that 300lb/ft of torque figure? Many TT's here are running into the low 300's, including mine. 
They have been shown to bust in the mid 300's. That gives you room to play with imo.

Yes torque is nice, but having money in my wallet is nicer, and I'd rather extract the most out of the stock motor than rebuild it for 60 more lb/ft of torque lol


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> You don't need a hybrid to hit 320bhp... lol


I havnt seen anyone over here hit a reliable and good graph 320bhp with a standard turbo in all the RR days etc so what is the problem with the UK cars/guys especially as we have 99 ron fuel? I dont see anyyone of the large tuners offering 300+bhp maps either, revo, apr, wak. unicorn etc?


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> Erm where did you get that 300lb/ft of torque figure?


Tried and tested lol


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## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

DazWaite said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > Erm where did you get that 300lb/ft of torque figure?
> ...


Brought a lump to my throat that did :lol:


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

Danny1 said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > You don't need a hybrid to hit 320bhp... lol
> ...


Mis information? Fear? Can't really say as I'm not from there or know the mentality or culture surrounding car modding in the UK. It's been done here in the states a few times. Tons of threads on it etc. etc.

I've addressed the large "tuner" argument before too. If you even want to call them tuners, these companies push base files off the shelf for money, people eat them up for some reason. It is ALWAYS better to get a custom remap by an experienced tuner in your platform or learn how to modify your tune yourself.

These companies can not push out high hp tunes for the sole reason that you are swimming in dangerous water once you start heading towards the mid 300's, they can not be held accountable for some idiot not setting up their WMI kit right, or using the wrong nozzles (this is vital), or running out of wmi etc. etc. They would have law suits left and right. 
Once you start nearing that threshold, you are maximizing the stock setups efficiency to the high 90 percentiles, this leaves very little headroom for error. You absolutely have to know what you're doing to take your car up to that point imo.

Another reason is it takes a lot of money, man hours, and many test cars to test these tunes, especially once you start trying to achieve maximum efficiency. It would cost these companies so much money to do R&D on a 340bhp tune that doesn't destroy your rods they would loose so much money in the process.

Not to mention the market for such a tune would be very small, people get scared if you tell them, "here's a high hp tune, that will run your car near it's limits. Pushing roughly 30psi". Yeah not many average Joe's are going to jump on that. Some people daily these cars too.

Always remember, companies like Revo, APR, etc. are a business first, and "tuners" second. If they're not making money from it, they're not going to put in the time to develop it.


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

DazWaite said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > Erm where did you get that 300lb/ft of torque figure?
> ...


What tune were your running? Sounds like a case of too much initial boost lol.


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

I also know that the standard gearbox will do 168mph at 7200rpm too lol.....

Shifting the torque curve to the left is no good for the standard Tt gearbox and shifting it to the right is no good for the rods imo....

i was tempted to fit the A3tdi Quattro box but don't think the lay-shafts would be up to high rpms, I went through a few diesel boxes on the escort s1 and s2 back in the days lol...

Daz


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## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

Shot peening..gimme that ol time religion


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

DazWaite said:


> I also know that the standard gearbox will do 168mph at 7200rpm too lol.....
> 
> Shifting the torque curve to the left is no good for the standard Tt gearbox and shifting it to the right is no good for the rods imo....
> 
> ...


Sounds about right, most tunes raise the rev limiter to 7200rpm for that reason 

I myself can't tell you how it's done, I'm not a tuner. Whether he achieves his power numbers via boost control or curve movement I can't say. I'm just telling you first hand I'm pushing over 300 lb/ft and haven't had any problems.


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## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

3TT3 said:


> Shot peening..gimme that ol time religion


 :? :? :? :? :?


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## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

I just mean shot peening has been used for many years, on conrods especially to toughen them up


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

3TT3 said:


> I just mean shot peening has been used for many years, on conrods especially to toughen them up


no more boxing lessons for the kids.....I'm gonna shot peen them


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## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

DazWaite said:


> 3TT3 said:
> 
> 
> > I just mean shot peening has been used for many years, on conrods especially to toughen them up
> ...


do you mean Shot peening is a cold working process used to produce a compressive residual stress layer and modify mechanical properties of metals. It entails impacting a surface with shot (round metallic, glass, or ceramic particles) with force sufficient to create plastic deformation. :lol:


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## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

Just looked at some con rods and there not that expensive really, but the damage is going to be from the garage, anyone any idea roughly how long to swap con rods over,, cheers


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## cam69 (Dec 22, 2011)

It's a big job buddy if your going to change rods then it will be worth doing all bearings new piston rings and give the bores a light hone. And if the heads off and millage is high maybe new vice stem seals.so basically engine out and stripped and rebuilt. I'm sure you could just do rods but if it was me I would do it all while it's apart for peace of mind also if you get rods make sure there riffle drilled so you get good pin oiling standard rods are riffle drilled most aftermarket ones are not.


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> You don't need a hybrid to hit 320bhp... lol


Can someone explain what BHP is? For the love of baby Jesus I can't get a grip with how this widely used figure in the UK is found and calculated. Is it flywheel HP, crank HP, wheel HP? I highly tdoubt that it is Wheel HP because the figures wouldn't be what they are. So if it is crank or flywheel HP how is drivetrain loss calculated from a free rolling drum or roller resistance figure. Is that calculation standardized? What standard is used? Someone please help me with my confusion



Danny1 said:


> I havnt seen anyone over here hit a reliable and good graph 320bhp with a standard turbo in all the RR days etc so what is the problem with the UK cars/guys especially as we have 99 ron fuel? I dont see anyyone of the large tuners offering 300+bhp maps either, revo, apr, wak. unicorn etc?


Standard turbo RR figures with a weak standard clutch that was starting to spin at full load in high gears. This was done with standard inlet manifold, standard exhaust manifold, standard turbo inlet pipe, generic stage 1 tune with some adaptation channels tweaks. So I think it is safe to say that even more is possible on the standard turbo with all these parts upgraded and some good tuning. It's not easy and require some knowledge on how to make power, but definitely possible.


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## cam69 (Dec 22, 2011)

Madmax199 said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > You don't need a hybrid to hit 320bhp... lol
> ...


In the UK most people go by flywheel power no wheel power.


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

peartcart12 said:


> Hi Guys, well exciting times ahead for me as in the next 6-7 weeks i plan to up the power on my already 277bhp to 320-330 bhp, i plan to do this with a relentless v4 manifold, BBT K04 hybrid K418T turbo and a snow performance water/meth injection system, and then Wak will bring it all together with his magic  but i realise this will put a strain on the con rods, i have the 225 apx engine which i do believe have the forged rods, so the things i would like to find out are,,, what is a safe (as safe can be when your modding) bhp figure to aim for, the turbo i am buying has potential for 365bhp, also if i have forged con rods what would be an upgrade from them and finally for now  how much would an indie garage roughly charge to do a con rod swap or roughly how many hours to do a job like that , big thanks


Don't sell yourself short and get some upgraded connecting rods. The OEM ones (all of them) are not up to the task. The rods are at the foundation for everything you will be doing from that point on, so build a solid base. I recommend Pauter rods, but Rosten for budget, or IE for fanboyism. All of them will do the job and raise your bottom-end failure threshold tenfold. The other bells and whistles (coating, riffle drilling etc.) are nice, but not necessarily needed unless you're going for HP records (save the extra cash for something useful).

With a hybrid, rods, and a competent tuner, you can make some serious power. Just make sure the tuner isn't limiting you by being overly cautious... you have rods now.


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## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

TTVince said:


> peartcart12 said:
> 
> 
> > CollecTTor said:
> ...


No, I'm not wrong. All 1.8T rods are powder sintered metal. If they were OEM forged, why would upgrading to forged make any sense? :roll: I work for an OEM manufacturer, I'm very familiar with visual appearance of rods from benchmarking other OEMs. Yes, the crank is forged on most 1.8Ts, easily verified from casting/forging parting lines. Pins are pins, if you want piece of mind there upgrade to tool steel pins.

Max, good luck on the BHP . :mrgreen:


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

cam69 said:


> In the UK most people go by flywheel power no wheel power.


So, how is drivetrain loss calculated if a RR is essentially measuring wheel HP? Any universal standard to calculate drivetrain loss in a TT? And why use flywheel HP when Wheel HP that is actually used in the real world to move the car is already available. Excuse all the questions, I'm just trying to grasp the logic behind the concept...


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## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

Hi Madmax, how many hours for a garage to swap the rods cheers


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## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

Madmax199 said:


> The other bells and whistles (coating, riffle drilling etc.) are nice, but not necessarily needed unless you're going for HP records (save the extra cash for something useful).


While I agree they aren't necessary, I'm changed my mind on the rifle drilling. For the small increase in price on the set of rods, I"m going to add it to my Pauter rods that aren't in use right now. On two different motors that came apart at ~50K miles of use, the piston pins fall right through the small end of the rod when held vertically and released. The runout measures very small, but I think it's a result of removing this OEM feature. Granted, this was at 2-3X OEM power levels, but something to think about if you plan on keeping the car/engine setup for 100K+ miles after rod install.


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

CollecTTor said:


> No, I'm not wrong. All 1.8T rods are powder sintered metal. If they were OEM forged, why would upgrading to forged make any sense? :roll: I work for an OEM manufacturer, I'm very familiar with visual appearance of rods from benchmarking other OEMs. Yes, the crank is forged on most 1.8Ts, easily verified from casting/forging parting lines. Pins are pins, if you want piece of mind there upgrade to tool steel pins.
> 
> Max, good luck on the BHP . :mrgreen:


Yeah Adam, some deep-rooted misconceptions over there. I'm sure you'll find someone on that board to argue rod composition with the engineer that worked for several car manufacturers (although I really would'nt count Hyundai in the resume and start with Honda :mrgreen: ).


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## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

peartcart12 said:


> Hi Madmax, how many hours for a garage to swap the rods cheers


Depends on how comfortable you are with getting that deep in a motor. "Simple" way is to leave the block in the car, remove head, remove rods, replace, reinstall. The "correct" way is to remove the block, rehone the cylinders, and rering it. Cowboys in the US have replaced pistons as they came out with original rings and been fine, I think Max did this? But to properly hone, you're going to have to remove the crank, which means block out of the car, which IMO, it's easier to remove the engine and trans as one to accomplish as the TT bay is more shrink wrapped around the engine than the Mk4 cars. As for a time estimate, it can be done the correct way in a weekend if you're diligent, have all the parts and tools you need, don't break anything, etc.


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## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

Madmax199 said:


> Yeah Adam, some deep-rooted misconceptions over there. I'm sure you'll find someone on that board to argue rod composition with the engineer that worked for several car manufacturers (although I really would'nt count Hyundai in the resume and start with Honda :mrgreen: ).


As for this discussion, would you feel the same if I told you they got rods from the same supplier? :lol: Hyundai's latest recall is a joke, as it was prompted by NHTSA as a "safety" issue. Spinning a rod bearing "could" kill someone!


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

This thread is getting good. I like it


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## cam69 (Dec 22, 2011)

Madmax199 said:


> cam69 said:
> 
> 
> > In the UK most people go by flywheel power no wheel power.
> ...


I'm not sure max the best person to answer that would be wak he knows a fair bit about dynos how they work Diffrent types etc I just put my car on one look the other way and hope for the best ;-)


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

peartcart12 said:


> Hi Madmax, how many hours for a garage to swap the rods cheers


Not sure, really depends on the garage experience with 1.8t. Many places that specializes on Vag cars will charge a flat rate for the Job (at least here in the US). Try to find one of these places.

When I did mine, we were on the RR pushing the timing map on E85. As soon as we hit 360 AWTQ, we started hearing light noise. I thought it was something loose in the bay after so many pulls. Added, 2 more degrees of timing, power still went up, EGT still went down, but the noise got louder. We knew instantly that we had bent a rod. Same night, it took a few hours at that shop to drop some forged upgraded rods they had on the shelves. I bent the rods around 7 pm, car was done before midnight for me to go home.

PS: that's with just two cowboys working, the shop owner, and I...


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## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

CollecTTor said:


> peartcart12 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Madmax, how many hours for a garage to swap the rods cheers
> ...


Hell no :lol: no way would i even know where to start,,,, garage job, thats why i just needed to know how many hours for a straight swap of con rods and nothing else


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## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

peartcart12 said:


> CollecTTor said:
> 
> 
> > peartcart12 said:
> ...


It takes more time and money, but if you can and want, the best way is to buy another motor and take your time building it. Then it's just a motor swap, easily done in one day, and then you have an OEM motor to fall back on in the future if you have issues, but most people don't have this luxury.


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## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

Depends on how comfortable you are with getting that deep in a motor. "Simple" way is to leave the block in the car, remove head, remove rods, replace, reinstall. The "correct" way is to remove the block, rehone the cylinders, and rering it. Cowboys in the US have replaced pistons as they came out with original rings and been fine, I think Max did this? But to properly hone, you're going to have to remove the crank, which means block out of the car, which IMO, it's easier to remove the engine and trans as one to accomplish as the TT bay is more shrink wrapped around the engine than the Mk4 cars. As for a time estimate, it can be done the correct way in a weekend if you're diligent, have all the parts and tools you need, don't break anything, etc
Hell no :lol: no way would i even know where to start,,,, garage job, thats why i just needed to know how many hours for a straight swap of con rods and nothing else 

It takes more time and money, but if you can and want, the best way is to buy another motor and take your time building it. Then it's just a motor swap, easily done in one day, and then you have an OEM motor to fall back on in the future if you have issues, but most people don't have this luxury.[/quote][/quote]
[smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif] all i want to know is roughly how many hours to change con rods [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

peartcart12 said:


> all i want to know is roughly how many hours to change con rods [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]


Shop bill time? No idea, I'm a cowboy and don't pay for what I can do myself. Call some local shops, they'll quote you right up.


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

CollecTTor said:


> Madmax199 said:
> 
> 
> > The other bells and whistles (coating, riffle drilling etc.) are nice, but not necessarily needed unless you're going for HP records (save the extra cash for something useful).
> ...


That's the thing, riffle drilling wasn't popular as a service back in the day. We have so many 1.8t motors with them at decent power levels, and mileage to say that they are not a necessity. My car for example, 5 years with the rods, tons of abuse (I am ashamed of how many WOT pulls are on this car at lambda nearing 1..... OOPS), and it is still going strong. Would I have added riffle drilling if doing the rods now? Yes, but mostly for the feel good effect, but I don't put them in the must-do category. If you're building a 700- up motor, like you usually do, it's a different story though. Many things must be upgraded, not just the rods.

The coatings, I believe we discussed before. Pointless in most cases. But some people swear by them and you can't blame them. Will I recommend coating on rods for a hybrid setup? Not really. Just like riffle drilling, I'd say put the extra cash towards something else... like a good water injection system.

As far as the proper procedure to do the rods, you are correct. Pulling the motor, re-honing, re-ringing is the ideal method. But I followed the heard here and went the drop-in way. There is a school of thought that honing is only needed if the rings are being changed. With someone like Ed telling me (after hundreds of rod job under his belt) it's hard to not follow the experience. He could have easily said to leave the car and make more money with a full bottom end refresh, espacially knowing that I compete in racing, but advise to just drop the rods. He assured me that he did this countless time on the road when racing his 1,000 whp beast to finish a drag weekend. Hard to argue his kind of real life 1.8T experience, so I didn't push the issue.


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## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

CollecTTor said:


> peartcart12 said:
> 
> 
> > all i want to know is roughly how many hours to change con rods [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]
> ...


so how many hours would it take you cheers


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

Madmax199 said:


> peartcart12 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Madmax, how many hours for a garage to swap the rods cheers
> ...


Power was still increasing even with a bent rod?


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## cam69 (Dec 22, 2011)

I always thought that riffle drilling would be a good idea in a road car as it will spend most it's time at low rpm so surely the oil pressure is lower meaning not as much oil will get there as it will be the piston oil squirters that is the only source of oil for the small ends? Do the oil squirters supply enough at low rpm?


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

Peartcart12, most regular shop use a book as a reference to how many hours to charge for that kind of job. A shop with experience with the 1.8t should not charge more than 5 hours for a drop-in. That's why I said to find a shop familiar with that job, they will likely charge a flat rate for the job so you don't get rapped by the hour for them to figure things out. Maybe give Bill (Badger5) a ring or a visit?


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## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

Madmax199 said:


> Peartcart12, most regular shop use a book as a reference to how many hours to charge for that kind of job. A shop with experience with the 1.8t should not charge more than 5 hours for a drop-in. That's why I said to find a shop familiar with that job, they will likely charge a flat rate for the job so you don't get rapped by the hour for them to figure things out. Maybe give Bill (Badger5) a ring or a visit?


Ok Cheers Madmax,, 5-6 hours is not to bad for labour costs mmmmmmmmmm


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> Power was still increasing even with a bent rod?


Yes! That's where the danger is, if you don't know, it could easily be ignored... and next thing is a window in the block.


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

Madmax199 said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > Power was still increasing even with a bent rod?
> ...


Wow that is scary as hell to even imagine. What are the tell tale signs of a bend rod then besides the noise you described? Would you have a very erratic idle or something of that nature? Extra vibration?


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> Madmax199 said:
> 
> 
> > Gonzalo1495 said:
> ...


Nope, just a faint clacking noise. No cel, no vibration. A loud car can easily cover that. They bend gradually with larger TQ figure than they can take. I bet most snapped rods are the result of ignored bent rods and added abused.


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## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

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## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

Not going to quote you Max, but yes coatings are a gimmick IMO, and reringing isn't necessary if the same piston/rings are going back in, no damage to the bores, no excessive wear (oval'ing) from high mileage, etc. Like I said, I've just seen how loose the pins are at 50K miles on one 1.8 setup and one 2.0 setup, and I like to keep the motors together for 100K miles as a goal. The squirters open at 36-42psi, so they should be open almost all the time if any load is on the motor. Another factor here is how many oil holes are on the small end of the rods in question, some have one at pure vertical, some have two offset from vertical. Also, because the rifle'ed oil hole isn't constantly aligned with the crank oil passage, you don't maintain "pressure" up to the small end/piston pin. The oil is "pulled" up to the small end by the crank snatching the rod downwards. Without the constant pressure, how much will this help in the bronze bushing on the small end wearing? Tough to say.


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## cam69 (Dec 22, 2011)

Bam/apx the same crank both forged they have the same part number.


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## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

TTVince said:


> No. Your wrong there mate. The APX has a forged crank uprated pins and rods.
> And only one other 1.8t has a forged crank. So not all 1.8t engines are forged cranks.
> Oh and it's not the BAM code that's defo cast crank!!


I didn't say the APX didn't have a forged crank, and I didn't say all 1.8t's are forged. Reread what I posted. All the transverse 1.8T's in the states have forged cranks. Longitudinal early cars didn't (AEB). Later longitudinal cars were forged (AWM?). In the US, AWD, AWW, and AWP, the three most common flavors of 1.8T Mk4 cars have forged cranks. APH is a Bettle motor, and I think it had cast, but never had my hands on one. We don't get BAM in the states either, but I assume similar to AMU and BEA, the TT225 motors that came over. Do you have pics of the APX internals? I can easily tell the difference of what you seem certain of. As for your claim of "uprated," you need to be more specific. 20mm pins vs 19mm pins isn't really "uprated" as I've run 19mm pins on drop in rods to 500chp with no issues. So is uprated bigger or different construction?


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## cam69 (Dec 22, 2011)




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## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

TTVince said:


> No. Your wrong there mate. The APX has a forged crank uprated pins and rods.
> And only one other 1.8t has a forged crank. So not all 1.8t engines are forged cranks.
> Oh and it's not the BAM code that's defo cast crank!!


Lmao !!!!

Daz


----------



## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

AGU? AMK? BFV? ARY? AWT?

Lol......


----------



## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

so are the rods forged or not on the apx, i cant see that chart


----------



## cam69 (Dec 22, 2011)

Rods are not forged apx/bam are the same. Apx/bam pistons are forged though not sure about other engine codes.


----------



## cam69 (Dec 22, 2011)

there you apx/bam rods are the same part number.


----------



## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

peartcart12 said:


> so are the rods forged or not on the apx, i cant see that chart


The rods are made with cocoa powder and hot milk then they are shot peened with sugar !!!!!

So no they are not forged


----------



## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

cam69 said:


> Rods are not forged apx/bam are the same. Apx/bam pistons are forged though not sure about other engine codes.


Hi Cam....

The AGU has forged Mahle pistons and 20mm wrist pins....

The crank is forged too..

Daz


----------



## cam69 (Dec 22, 2011)

DazWaite said:


> peartcart12 said:
> 
> 
> > so are the rods forged or not on the apx, i cant see that chart
> ...


I was under the impression they were made from paper water and flour.


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

.........................................................................


----------



## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

APX rods are the same part number as AGU ones...

Yes your crank is forged......

[smiley=drummer.gif]

There's nothing special about the APX Engine you can achieve more power using a mk4 golf/a3 8l AGU engine with k04 hardware......

Daz


----------



## cam69 (Dec 22, 2011)

TTVince said:


> cam69 said:
> 
> 
> > DazWaite said:
> ...


Yes your apx has a forged crank and forged pistons but rods are the Same as bam unless you have changed them and they are not forged but yes they do have bigger wrist pins to the other engine codes with less power.


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

......................................................


----------



## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

TTVince said:


> The APX has forged crank uprated rods and pins.
> End of.
> That I'm certain of. So you can post up all you like about part codes etc etc.
> My APX has a forged crank!!
> ...


There's absolutely nothing uprated about the internals of the APX engine - 20mm pins just like the later BAM engine and crap rods just like the BAM engine (my banana shaped APX rod @ stage 1 is testament to this and the many others out there).... and the same forged crank as the BAM engine.

Posting up part numbers is the correct way of proving the above point - if they were uprated or different in anyway then the part numbers would be different between engines....which quite clearly they are not because they are no different.

In your words 'end of'


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Chucks spade to Vince to dig out of big hole.......................


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

.............................................................


----------



## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Calm down Vince lol

I was mentioning that an AGU engine no matter what car it's in is a good base engine for upgrading as its nearly identical to the 225 APX/BAM bottom end.....the main benefits of the AGU is the bigger Valves and inlet ports allowing a bit more flow...

If I was to build an another 1.8t engine again I'd start with an AGU engine and uprate everything...

The AGU is cheap to buy and for all those that want to drop rods in situ then I'd recommend that they build one of these engines up first because ideally you need the crank journals spotless so a good polish is needed imo

Daz


----------



## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

TTVince said:


> Lol. All those boy racers who think they can out perform a TT driven by someone who's has a Will to die.
> Quattro was built to go round a corner faster than most things.
> Yep A-B in a strait line your Mk4 golfs will be faster. But on the twisty hill climbs down hill up dale. They've got no fecking chance.
> Quite literally I can go into the corner faster and therefore come out faster.


How this is in the slightest bit relevant to the original post is beyond me? :roll:



> What I'm I going to be capable of at 260bhp to the road and 280 at the fly.


Not alot is the answer to that. An extra 14bhp at the wheels is going to net you absolutely zilch at the traffic light grand prix when compared to a car with 246bhp at the wheels sat next to you. You need at least an extra 40-50bhp to make a noticable difference on the road and even then you'll probably only gain around a couple of car lengths once actually rolling.


----------



## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

DazWaite said:


> ....the main benefits of the AGU is the bigger Valves and inlet ports allowing a bit more flow...


Valves aren't any bigger - they are the same size across the 1.8T range...it's just the ports are larger.


----------



## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

I stand corrected lol.....

We've missed your input Lee !!

Daz


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

TTVince said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > Chucks spade to Vince to dig out of big hole.......................
> ...


"Will to die.........."

Do yourself a favour and grow up a little, what a really stupid thing to say, prize prat.


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Chuck "stupid ass" spade at Vince.......


----------



## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

DazWaite said:


> Calm down Vince lol
> 
> I was mentioning that an AGU engine no matter what car it's in is a good base engine for upgrading as its nearly identical to the 225 APX/BAM bottom end.....the main benefits of the AGU is the bigger Valves and inlet ports allowing a bit more flow...
> 
> ...


Hi Daz, interesting as i was thinking of doing an uprated engine build as a back burnner hobby, seems like evrything would be an upgrade to what we seem to have, inmtresting you say about the agu engine with the bigger ports, would this be a direct swap for a apx engine or would further mods be need to fit, cheers


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## cam69 (Dec 22, 2011)

Why does this guy keep going on about golf's I'm completely lost I think he maybe to ;-)


----------



## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

[smiley=dizzy2.gif]


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

...................................................


----------



## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

Looks like its time for another round of these


----------



## Trouble4 (Oct 4, 2012)

Have seen many being along these lines when upgrading...................

JE-PVA JE 1.8T 20V STROKER PISTON SETS: 83 mm 8: 5: 1CR / 2.0L 92.8 mm 
with Thermal Barrier Crown Tuff Skirt and JE Tool Steel Wrist Pins

IESKVA8B IE OIL PUMP DRIVE GEAR FOR 2.0L STROKER CONVERSION USING FSI CRANKSHAFT

CAL-5M1644H CALICO COATED ACL RACE MAIN BEARING SET FOR VW/AUDI 4 CYLINDER

ARP-204-3901 ARP 1.8T HEAD BOLT KIT 10MM

IERTVA1 IE TUSCAN 144X20 RODS 1.8T, FSI, 16V, EARLY 8V AUDI VW ******** rifled is standard

also CTSturbo has a kit that has made many very happy:

http://www.ctsturbo.com/cart/products/CTS_TURBO_MK1_AUDI_TT225Q_1_8T_TURBO_KIT-251-1.html

We sell this as well for them 8)

Lots and Lots of choices............. [smiley=book2.gif]


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

L33JSA said:


> TTVince said:
> 
> 
> > The APX has forged crank uprated rods and pins.
> ...


Unless someone had replaced your rods with Forge ones they'll be the same as these AJQ,APX,BAM. End of.


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## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

So in conclusion, APX=BAM=AMU=BEA=AGU with AGU having the big port head like an AEB, OEM rods are poop in all of them, Vince wants to outrun Golf's, and Whan the North American pusher man is here to push his wares.


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## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

...................................................


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## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

TTVince said:


> I'm not a track boy. I'm just a little crazy sometimes on sweeping two lane B roads, where Balls count. If you don't have big Balls and all you do is race on a track. Then yes end of!
> 
> The End xx


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## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

Trouble4 said:


> Have seen many being along these lines when upgrading...................
> 
> JE-PVA JE 1.8T 20V STROKER PISTON SETS: 83 mm 8: 5: 1CR / 2.0L 92.8 mm
> with Thermal Barrier Crown Tuff Skirt and JE Tool Steel Wrist Pins
> ...


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## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

................................................................


----------



## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

TTVince said:


> I'm not a track boy. I'm just a little crazy sometimes on sweeping two lane B roads, where Balls count. If you don't have big Balls and all you do is race on a track. Then yes end of!
> 
> The End xx


Oh boy, this place will not stop amazing me. The place where you need "Big Balls for two lane B roads" and don't need any if "all you do is race on track". I almost spilled my drink laughing so hard... where do you even find the "big Balls" to post garbage like that... you're my new hero. Someone please give this guy a reality TV show! :lol:


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

TTVince said:


> Trouble4 said:
> 
> 
> > Have seen many being along these lines when upgrading...................
> ...


pictures :mrgreen:

with a Hybrid an all the rest you must be rapping the tarmac with your rubber no?.


----------



## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

TTVince said:


> I may well have a will to die. But I'm not stupid. Stupidity dictates an £800 spend to get bullet resistant rods.


I'll tell you what stupidity does seem to dictate...



TTVince said:


> Just because it happens to come in a kit don't mean you can't apply common sense and shop around.
> 
> Miltek 3 inch T back £1000


Didn't shop around here then??



TTVince said:


> Race stainless
> Manifold purchased
> From Germany. £700


Or here....I thought you said you only wanted 280bhp?



TTVince said:


> Hybrid fitted with smoother
> Bearings too. £600


Smoother bearings....that is an absolute belter.....did you polish them yourself?



TTVince said:


> Home made induction
> Kit. Consists of two 6 inch
> Pipes navigated from sump protection plate to
> Pipercross cone filter and one
> ...


This will have netted you the grand total of zero bhp and a lighter wallet which probably will have made more difference to the performance of your car.



TTVince said:


> Anyone can go fast in a strait line.


*straight - but it seems not anyone can spell!



TTVince said:


> Me. I like shagging.


Do you do this on B roads too?? I bet you go bareback too don't you.....you massive balled lad you!!

Priceless thread.....so glad to be back!!


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

...........................................................


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

..................................................


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

TTVince said:


> Need to get all my windows licked


Hey Vince this is what you meant?

Daz :roll:


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

TTVince said:


> Strange.
> 174 at the road in Jan pre mods.
> 246 now. Mmmm weird that.
> Must of missed sumat.


Yeh....I reckon you were missing something....especially pre Mods. 174bhp at the wheels on a standard 225.....I reckon you were missing around 15 horses or so.

Now with 246bhp at the wheels which equates to around 270ish at flywheel you are at roughly stage 1 power...perhaps a couple of bhp over which to be honest you could have just got with a decent map on an otherwise standard car.

So you've spent just shy of £4000 on mods that weren't necessary to get you to the power level you're at......now that is definitely stupid....and what you're missing now is a fat wedge of cash in your back pocket!


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

My made 198 whp standard and 252whp on the rollers when I first mapped mine to the so called stage1 many years ago

Daz


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## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

............................................................


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

I'm made up I've got an APX TT.

make your mind up fella from the north shy of lies :-*

with that kind of money you'd be running at least 320hp or give me half of that money and I'll get 315hp from a k04 Hybrid a few extras and a decent remap


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## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

Erm,,,,,can i have my thread back now please :lol: so got a price for doing the con rod swap from local indie. he said it was a 10 hour job at £1000 plus vat plus new cam belt as he would not fit old one even thou its only done 8000 miles, anyway another £350 wow seems expensive but necessary, but price is heafty  i will shop around for better price


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

peartcart12 said:


> Erm,,,,,can i have my thread back now please :lol: so got a price for doing the con rod swap from local indie. he said it was a 10 hour job at £1000 plus vat plus new cam belt as he would not fit old one even thou its only done 8000 miles, anyway another £350 wow seems expensive but necessary, but price is heafty  i will shop around for better price


wtf  that's not cheap peartcart12 
what would some of the pros on here charge?.
you may as well get the racing cam belt?. or isn't it necessary.


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

.......................................................................


----------



## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

Sandy said:


> peartcart12 said:
> 
> 
> > Erm,,,,,can i have my thread back now please :lol: so got a price for doing the con rod swap from local indie. he said it was a 10 hour job at £1000 plus vat plus new cam belt as he would not fit old one even thou its only done 8000 miles, anyway another £350 wow seems expensive but necessary, but price is heafty  i will shop around for better price
> ...


Hi Sandy, yeah made me gulp, yep i will put the job out for tender, i would of thought it would be a nice cash in hand job for someone  so i will listen to any good offers out there


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

CollecTTor said:


> So in conclusion, APX=BAM=AMU=BEA=AGU with AGU having the big port head like an AEB, OEM rods are poop in all of them, Vince wants to outrun Golf's, and Whan the North American pusher man is here to push his wares.


I sincerely enjoy your posts man :lol: :lol:


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

...........................................................................


----------



## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

TTVince said:


> peartcart12 said:
> 
> 
> > Erm,,,,,can i have my thread back now please :lol: so got a price for doing the con rod swap from local indie. he said it was a 10 hour job at £1000 plus vat plus new cam belt as he would not fit old one even thou its only done 8000 miles, anyway another £350 wow seems expensive but necessary, but price is heafty  i will shop around for better price
> ...





TTVince said:


> peartcart12 said:
> 
> 
> > Erm,,,,,can i have my thread back now please :lol: so got a price for doing the con rod swap from local indie. he said it was a 10 hour job at £1000 plus vat plus new cam belt as he would not fit old one even thou its only done 8000 miles, anyway another £350 wow seems expensive but necessary, but price is heafty  i will shop around for better price
> ...


Hi Vince, £800 thats a bit better, but i am looking for a mechanic to do it in his spare time, then i dont have to pay all the garage over heads, do you need a ramp to do this job :? :?


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

TTVince said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > I'm made up I've got an APX TT.
> ...


You posted that you made it all up owning an APX TT ?.

If you had all those mods then you'd be shy of around 300+ running under the hood?.

I've done a lot of reading and not just the tt forum but the ASN audi - sport.net too and people are running k04 hybrid rs6 wheel upgrade with around 320bhp without the use of forge rods.
They do use bigger injectors, 3inch down pipe and cat back fmic 3inch turbo tip and not much more.


----------



## Beunhaas (May 14, 2014)

Im thinking about changing rods on my BAM engine myself on the drive :lol:

Running 340 hp and 430 NM on stock rods but want to try the full potential of the TFSI K04

Is it only rod and piston out. Old piston + old rings on new rod with new bearings and back in? Or should i change rings too?

And does somebody have a list of parts needed for the job?

Thanks


----------



## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

Beunhaas said:


> Im thinking about changing rods on my BAM engine myself on the drive :lol:
> 
> Running 340 hp and 430 NM on stock rods but want to try the full potential of the TFSI K04
> 
> ...


Wow niceeee. Could have achieved that without the TFSI K04 but still impressive numbers.

The nice thing though, is once you do the rods, you will raised the threshold significantly, and can run much more boost :wink:


----------



## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

Beunhaas said:


> Im thinking about changing rods on my BAM engine myself on the drive :lol:
> 
> Running 340 hp and 430 NM on stock rods but want to try the full potential of the TFSI K04
> 
> ...


Hi Beunhaas, you will need uprated rod bolts from arp


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Beunhaas said:


> Im thinking about changing rods on my BAM engine myself on the drive :lol:
> 
> Running 340 hp and 430 NM on stock rods but want to try the full potential of the TFSI K04
> 
> ...


You can try do it on the drive way :lol: it's a big job and not just the rods and pistons as t -belt oil pump and the crank have to come out :? pistons and rings can remain but rods and pins should be replaced :wink: along with a new t belt.


----------



## Beunhaas (May 14, 2014)

Do you guys think this list is complete for a rod change? [smiley=book2.gif]

IE 144X20 Hbeam + arp2000 bolts
Big end bearings
Head bolts
V belt
Timing belt
Hydraulic damper
Tensioning roll
Waterpump
Headgasket
Sump sealant

should i replace the piston pin?


----------



## Beunhaas (May 14, 2014)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> Beunhaas said:
> 
> 
> > Im thinking about changing rods on my BAM engine myself on the drive :lol:
> ...


Yeah want to run 2 bar boost like the Golf R S3 guys


----------



## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

You can run 2 bar on these cars too :wink:


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

peartcart12 said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > peartcart12 said:
> ...


If they are ready to pull the engine out then I guess you can't argue the price as it's easier with engine out to get to the t belt so less haste trying to rip your hands apart :lol:


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> You can run 2 bar on these cars too :wink:


of what chocolate :lol:


----------



## infidel.uk (Feb 21, 2015)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> You can run 2 bar on these cars too :wink:


this sounds right, because when wak pressure tested my car, it was tested upto 2 bar, as was the oem dump valve replacement he supplied. :?


----------



## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

Sandy said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > You can run 2 bar on these cars too :wink:
> ...


The boostalicious kind 8)


----------



## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> CollecTTor said:
> 
> 
> > So in conclusion, APX=BAM=AMU=BEA=AGU with AGU having the big port head like an AEB, OEM rods are poop in all of them, Vince wants to outrun Golf's, and Whan the North American pusher man is here to push his wares.
> ...


Good, some people don't like the truth.


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > Gonzalo1495 said:
> ...


Can't believe they actually did one but yummy :lol:


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

........................................................................


----------



## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

TTVince said:


> I've even noticed a slight increase in power from my recent oil cooler upgrade using an 18 element rad with a fail safe thermostat.


No, no you haven't. Placebo.


----------



## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

Hi Vince, i asked if you needed a ramp to swap con rods, not how many ramps your garage has :lol: its not top trumps :lol:


----------



## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Done mine on a drive lol

Daz


----------



## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

DazWaite said:


> Done mine on a drive lol
> 
> Daz


do you want to do mine on your drive :lol:


----------



## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

And this is how it looked after 2 days


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

TTVince said:


> 174 at the road in Jan pre mods.
> 246 now. Mmmm weird that.
> Must of missed sumat.
> 
> ...


You typed it above Vince boy hence me thinking your talking out tour bottom but hmm I'm thinking


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

............................................................................


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

DazWaite said:


> Done mine on a drive lol
> 
> Daz


You would wouldn't yah :lol:

I don't like the cheap tow rope tho


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

.............................................................................


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

peartcart12 said:


> DazWaite said:
> 
> 
> > Done mine on a drive lol
> ...


It's worth it :lol:


----------



## Trouble4 (Oct 4, 2012)

TTVince said:


> Trouble4 said:
> 
> 
> > Have seen many being along these lines when upgrading...................
> ...


Just have seen some posts........

Have all this stuff lots more ..

this is my Daily Driver.........

Just want the person who started the thread to know what others are using/doing and am glad others have made suggestions as well .......

saw post about getting with your tune tech which is WAK ..Please ask work with him..he knows what he is doing

Bottom line is FIRST decide what you really want !!!!!  

Myself; my car Keeping forever as we sell everything on this car and more........ and that is why there is such an investment
 it did start out as just fun and now it is just Crazy Fun....  :lol:  8)

Enjoy


----------



## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Sandy said:


> I don't like the cheap tow rope tho


Your missus bought it last year for me to tie her up one night lol.....


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

DazWaite said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > I don't like the cheap tow rope tho
> ...


kinky blaskeet :lol:


----------



## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

peartcart12 said:


> do you want to do mine on your drive :lol:


How about we organise a group meet with all mechanically skilled members bringing their tools etc and we do it in an Audi car park?

I'd be up for that lol


----------



## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

DazWaite said:


> peartcart12 said:
> 
> 
> > do you want to do mine on your drive :lol:
> ...


 :lol: :lol:


----------



## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

TTVince said:


> CollecTTor said:
> 
> 
> > TTVince said:
> ...


I think you haven't. Stating "Fact!" doesn't make it so. :wink: If you're not mapped, you're not making enough boost to have heat issues. A "cooler" engine CAN make more power, doesn't mean yours is. In reality, you installed a lot of stuff and want to believe it's now better. "Fact!" is you have no proof.


----------



## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

TTVince said:


> P.S. If you come up behind THZ1270 on a B road and flash your lights to let him know your game. Then we shall see just how big your balls really are.
> Lol lol lol.


Sounds like you go dogging at the weekend....



Daz


----------



## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

Personally,

I couldnt do that kind of mod.It just wouldnt feel right to me.

I mean if doing anything that deep into the engine and considering the cost (and the age of the other bits on mine).
I'd have to go full rebuild, balance ,get rid of the carbon line at the top of the cylinders get rid of flash marks and so on.
A full rebuild and then work outwards.
Knowing me thatd take 2-3 months..I wouldnt be able to leave the cyl head alone either  8)


----------



## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

3TT3 said:


> Personally,
> 
> I couldnt do that kind of mod.It just wouldnt feel right to me.
> 
> ...


Hi 3tt3, yeah i think engine rebuild is the way to go really


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

peartcart12 said:


> 3TT3 said:
> 
> 
> > Personally,
> ...


Buy a second engine and use that as the building block 

btw there was an engine on ebay for two weeks £75 collection would have been an ideal donor :wink:


----------



## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

Sandy said:


> peartcart12 said:
> 
> 
> > 3TT3 said:
> ...


Hi Sandy, thats the plan i think, then there is no pressure to get it done quick


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

peartcart12 said:


> Buy a second engine and use that as the building block
> 
> btw there was an engine on ebay for two weeks £75 collection would have been an ideal donor :wink:


Hi Sandy, thats the plan i think, then there is no pressure to get it done quick [/quote]see if you can find that cheap engine as I'd happily pay 75 quid and then get that forged out if I were doing the mods :mrgreen:


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

.............................................................................


----------



## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

DazWaite said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > Erm where did you get that 300lb/ft of torque figure?
> ...


+1;the same here!
With 300lb/ft torque it`s all ready in the rod lottery.


----------



## Beunhaas (May 14, 2014)

DazWaite said:


> Done mine on a drive lol
> 
> Daz


Hi Daz,

Did you pull the engine from the front or top?

Dropping it from bottom on 2 post lift should be easiest i guess?


----------



## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Beunhaas said:


> Hi Daz,
> 
> Did you pull the engine from the front or top?
> 
> Dropping it from bottom on 2 post lift should be easiest i guess?


From the top dude.....left all the rad pack, air con etc in situ


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

.........................................................................


----------



## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Let it go Vince.........

  

Daz


----------



## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

TTVince said:


> My local garage are into track racing.
> They use a Nisan micra.
> The rules are simple.
> Only mods are air filter.
> ...


Of course they have Vincent!!! :roll:


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I'm waiting for a forum user to own up to starting Vincent's account as a joke such is the stream of constant rib tickling total
bollocks coming from the member.

Either that or Vincent isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.......


----------



## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Vince,are you real? :lol:


----------



## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

jamman said:


> I'm waiting for a forum user to own up to starting Vincent's account as a joke such is the stream of constant rib tickling total
> bollocks coming from the member.
> 
> Either that or Vincent isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.......


Me thinks it might be the 2nd one :wink:


----------



## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

jamman said:


> I'm waiting for a forum user to own up to starting Vincent's account as a joke such is the stream of constant rib tickling total
> bollocks coming from the member.
> 
> Either that or Vincent isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.......


Welcome to the Forum Vince !!!!

You have passed the 1st part of your Forum induction

The next stage involves showing us your family tree going back at least 200 years...

Is anyone in your family called Gonzalo?????

Daz


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

DazWaite said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > I'm waiting for a forum user to own up to starting Vincent's account as a joke such is the stream of constant rib tickling total
> ...


Now that'd below the belt Daz  not even Gonz talks this much poop ffs me thinks it's 20bhp [smiley=book2.gif] 
I know someone who had a micra 1 litre turbo using a renault 5 gt turbo unit and that made 167bhp confirmed but 208 with just holes in the bonnet and an air filter VINCEY boy get real buddy we know your bored just making up the crap to give people something to yap about :lol:


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

jamman said:


> I'm waiting for a forum user to own up to starting Vincent's account as a joke such is the stream of constant rib tickling total
> bollocks coming from the member.
> 
> Either that or Vincent isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.......


very blunt indeed James :?


----------



## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Okay Sandy that was a bit below the Belt and I do apologise to Gonz in advance.... 

Daz


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

DazWaite said:


> Okay Sandy that was a bit below the Belt and I do apologise to Gonz in advance....
> 
> Daz


Good one 

You did well dragging the engine out from the top mate. we used to do this back in the 90's with a rope and a two by four :lol:


----------



## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

TTVince said:


> My local garage are into track racing.
> They use a Nisan micra.
> The rules are simple.
> Only mods are air filter.
> ...


You're not very good at this quoting thing, and that's great and all what your garage got out of another car, but that has nothing to do with you thinking holes in your hood and and oil cooler added power. :lol: It is entertaining watching you come back for more and more, yet you keep saying more ridiculous things every time.

And taking the engine out the top?  Take the front off, leave power steering and AC connected, remove power steering pump from accessory bracket along with AC compressor, swing it all to the side with the radiator support, and you can roll the engine and trans out as one unit, no hoist required. But there's many ways to get the job done.


----------



## Trouble4 (Oct 4, 2012)

Thanks Vince you have either come up to or down to me level have been lonely at whatever level I am at

I get as much respect as you do now so that is better for me.......... colder is better.....

Have to say this is the best forum on the web.... 

my tree is English Scottish Irish a bit of ish......

The holes in the hood ? have to see May look good ?


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

..............................................................................


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

You must have a very boring life if that is the case :lol: :lol:

I'm always intrigued when you get a poster that lets just say isn't quite all there or to put it another way has a slight misfire and it ain't no coil pack problem this fault is so obviously in the ECU :wink:


----------



## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

TTVince said:


> I shall hold my hands up. I shall come clean.
> It's all been pure bollocks.
> Apart from the big balls.
> My balls are defo very big. And I don't play golf.
> ...


Ahh but it may come back to bite you.
Remember the story of:
The little dutch boy who cried "woof" when he teabagged the ****.


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Don't "edit" as it shows a lack of wit and repartee :wink:

I wouldn't rely too heavily on Wak mapping your car :wink:

Just saying


----------



## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

Sandy said:


> DazWaite said:
> 
> 
> > Okay Sandy that was a bit below the Belt and I do apologise to Gonz in advance....
> ...


 :lol:


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

My mate Gonzy can lift a BAM out with just one arm :wink:


----------



## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

jamman said:


> My mate Gonzy can lift a BAM out with just one arm :wink:


Only if there's a smoking hot chick underneath it :lol:


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

She's waiting for you......

She wants you to lick her pit.....


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

..................................................................


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

My thoughts or your thoughts ? :roll:

Its all about edukation (or lack of it) :wink:


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

..................................................................


----------



## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

TTVince said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > My thoughts or your thoughts ? :roll:
> ...


That is flecking disgusting   :lol: :lol:


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

.............................................................


----------



## tt180mk1quattro (Oct 30, 2014)

a little late but









could not resist :mrgreen:


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

TTVince said:


> My I Q exceeds most. 137.


You hide it very very well.

I'm always somewhat amused when people feel the need to state how intelligent they are, what's the point ?

Maybe a sign of insecurity, low self esteem I've no idea.

James

O Levels 
Maths
English Lit
English Lang
Biology 
Physics
Geography
Eng Drawing
C.S.
French

A Levels
Maths
Physics 
Biology
English


----------



## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

jamman said:


> TTVince said:
> 
> 
> > My I Q exceeds most. 137.
> ...


Over here, O is what we give little kids in kindergarten through 3rd grade their scores. O for Outstanding.
A ofc is for Average!

Glad to see you did so well in your education growing up little James :-* 
I'm more so surprised you remember back 50 years to your schooling and what scores you got! Then again, you did get a lot of "Outstandings" :lol:


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Sad thing Gonzybaby is I do remember my grades as well :lol:


----------



## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

erm i only asked about con rods and 13 pages in there is about 6 posts on con rods :lol: talk about being hijacked , at least dick turpin wore a mask :lol: but i have loved every single post, not only is this site highly informative it is also highly entertaining :lol: hey vince make sure you stick around as your highly amusing :lol:


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

.....................................................


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

...........


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

.........


----------



## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

Brags about IQ, can't work a forum quote function properly, and types like a moron AND has a car inferiority complex, yet still thinks he's owning the forum. IQ = capability, not actual performance.


----------



## Trouble4 (Oct 4, 2012)

What is going on?? Education and no common sense equals 
Inconsistency in ones thought process 
just when I thought I was getting out of the cellar 
lOL .... Oh well life goes on ..

Be safe on the roads out there...


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

TTVince said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > TTVince said:
> ...


Edited three times and still not funny.....

Maybe I've touched a nerve with the low self esteem comment :wink:

See me - Must try harder.


----------



## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

Will you guys just shut up and kiss already? Jeez :roll:


----------



## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

Dobermans, Balls, Dogging, Chocolate and the return of Lee... well this thread has been a read! :lol:


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

TTVince said:


> Right I'm off to work. It's been fun.
> 
> Sent from my 18volt cordless drill using tapacrap


McDonald's litter collection ? [smiley=gossip.gif]


----------



## blues1143 (Oct 26, 2014)

DazWaite said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > Erm where did you get that 300lb/ft of torque figure?
> ...


That picture actually made me chuckle... Feel your pain


----------



## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

blues1143 said:


> DazWaite said:
> 
> 
> > Gonzalo1495 said:
> ...


I laughed too at the fact he couldn't find a reliable tuner to avoid that in the first place


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

................................................


----------



## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

TTVince said:


> I go to McDonalds every day to collect the stickers off the cups and get my free coffee.
> I think the litter man is on minimum wage £6.50ph, thankfully I'm self employed and can earn that in under 10mins.
> 
> Income. None of your business.
> ...


So rich, you get free crap coffee. Let me guess, you have a 50cm wang, bench press a ton, and only date supermodels too, right? Hint: TALK IS CHEAP.



Gonzalo1495 said:


> I laughed too at the fact he couldn't find a reliable tuner to avoid that in the first place


Because ME7.5 tuners grow on trees here in the states? [smiley=book2.gif]


----------



## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

> So rich, you get free crap coffee. Let me guess, you have a 50cm wang, bench press a ton, and only date supermodels too, right? Hint: TALK IS CHEAP.


You're confused, that's actually my stat book, although its 50cm...AROUND. :wink:

To add to that i also run a 4.15second 40-yrd dash and have never dropped a target :wink:



> Because ME7.5 tuners grow on trees here in the states?


Got to love a bit of state-side support against Gonz's ludicrous claims. :lol: :roll:

Jokes, love you really Gonz...


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

...........................................................................


----------



## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

TTVince said:


> Income. None of your business.
> Disposable income 100% of total income *lol lol lol. *
> 
> Yes I get free crap, bench press a ton, and only date supermodels too.
> *Lol lol lol. *


A fourth "lol" would have really driven the point home.


----------



## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

Lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol and lolly lol lol lol


----------



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Im told Vincent is actually the star of one of those "bums on benefits" programs.

He's the one wearing his baseball cap back to front and dreaming of what might have been if he had been given a chance.

Alas poor Vincent I knew him well......

Cast and catch a Vincent everytime


----------



## blues1143 (Oct 26, 2014)

NickG said:


> > You're confused, that's actually my stat book, although its 50cm...AROUND. :wink:


Great American Pie Reference there...


----------



## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

blues1143 said:


> NickG said:
> 
> 
> > > You're confused, that's actually my stat book, although its 50cm...AROUND. :wink:
> ...


----------



## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

CollecTTor said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > I laughed too at the fact he couldn't find a reliable tuner to avoid that in the first place
> ...


Can't you just let me troll these guys in peace? :lol:

Yes there are a shortage everywhere, just more so a jab at the modding culture over there. Everything is safe to a fault imo.


----------



## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

peartcart12 said:


> Hi Guys, well exciting times ahead for me as in the next 6-7 weeks i plan to up the power on my already 277bhp to 320-330 bhp, i plan to do this with a relentless v4 manifold, BBT K04 hybrid K418T turbo and a snow performance water/meth injection system, and then Wak will bring it all together with his magic  but i realise this will put a strain on the con rods, i have the 225 apx engine which i do believe have the forged rods, so the things i would like to find out are,,, what is a safe (as safe can be when your modding) bhp figure to aim for, the turbo i am buying has potential for 365bhp, also if i have forged con rods what would be an upgrade from them and finally for now  how much would an indie garage roughly charge to do a con rod swap or roughly how many hours to do a job like that , big thanks


- No engine comes with Forged rods but everything else is, pistons are forged and made by Mahle (good for 400-450HP), crank is forged and good for 800HP, rods bend at 300ft/lb as mentioned.

- With a K418T WMI FMIC V4 mani advanced timing and boost you're looking at more like 350+HP and similar torque so you will absolutely need rods.


----------



## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

Seems I must have magical rods since mine are handling torque over 300 ft/lbs no problem and hard launches. :roll:


----------



## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

[/quote]
No engine comes with Forged rods but everything else is, pistons are forged and made by Mahle (good for 400-450HP), crank is forged and good for 800HP, rods bend at 300ft/lb as mentioned.

- With a K418T WMI FMIC V4 mani advanced timing and boost you're looking at more like 350+HP and similar torque so you will absolutely need rods.[/quote]
Hi M8 thanks for the reply,Bloody Audi, why forge everything else and not the rods  cost a bloody fortune to get just the rods done


----------



## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> Seems I must have magical rods since mine are handling torque over 300 ft/lbs no problem and hard launches. :roll:


Most probably you don`t have 300ft/lbs torque,but you love to believe it and you lunch like a grandmother :lol:


----------



## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> Seems I must have magical rods since mine are handling torque over 300 ft/lbs no problem and hard launches. :roll:


So where's your dyno? It's not so much how much torque, it's WHERE you make it. The further up in the rpm's, the less likely you are to break one. That's why they all delay boost onset with their custom tunes, not done often in the US. Yes, I know Gonzo has files for this, but it's a compromise and makes your car slower. I made 280 wtq with a K03S on my GTI for over 100K miles, well over 300lbft at the crank with many many many drag launches, and never broke one either, and it spools sooner than the K04's. That doesn't mean I wasn't close to the limits.


----------



## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

CollecTTor said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > Seems I must have magical rods since mine are handling torque over 300 ft/lbs no problem and hard launches. :roll:
> ...


I know this 20v, I am explaining it to these guys who don't understand that what breaks their rods is not the "300 ft/lb" threshold they think exists but how soon they are making it because they don't have tuners who are familiar with that.

My point at the end of the day is that it can be done. They just don't bother figuring out how, and pass that false information onto new owners which bugs me. Many MANY car groups are moving forward with modding. It seems we are digressing over time. [smiley=bomb.gif]


----------



## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

hang your idols said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > Seems I must have magical rods since mine are handling torque over 300 ft/lbs no problem and hard launches. :roll:
> ...


http://tunedbygts.com/s2amu
Or you guys have no idea what you're doing :roll: 
lmfao

And I'm running more boost and timing than the base file, so I'm past those figures as well by a small margin.


----------



## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

But that states 285bhp and 300ftlbs?! That's nothing revolutionary at all?


----------



## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

And their stage 3 tune requires a hybrid turbo? So now I'm really struggling to see your point Gonz?


----------



## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

NickG said:


> But that states 285bhp and 300ftlbs?! That's nothing revolutionary at all?


But supposedly 300 ft/lbs of torque bends your rods nick!?!?! :lol:

I didn't claim it was revolutionary, I'm simply linking him to a tuner that can safely tune 300 ft/lbs of torque as a point. Let's not get overly excited here bud lol.


----------



## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

It's not a case of 301 and fix your rods, no one has said that, it's common knowledge that it's a close figure and that's an aggressive map only makes that worse! Wak is running 400 odd as far as I'm aware on standard rods, because his delivery is smooth... It's possible, more than possible, but if you want to be safe you buy forged rods.


----------



## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Good old generic map you have then Gonzalo?

Used a lot of rollers in my time and most of them you had to press a switch at 2000rpm to activate the brake but if I pressed it at 1500rpm I'd easily see an extra 30bhp and 30lbs respectively....

You might have 300lbs but wheres it peaking at rpm wise?.....I like my peak to be anywhere between 4500-5000...

And to achieve this its border line bend territory.....my current map was on the car for quite a while without no probs whatsoever.....I then modified my hg intercooler kit by using a bigger core.....I then fitted a like for like turbo in October last year....all still running well.....then one cold morning after 10mins driving....pulling out of a junction I floored it and boom the rods bent....you can tell by the ticking noise you get when the Pistons hit the oil squirters on stroke.....

You'll be surprised how many 1.8t's they are still running with bent rods.....

Car still ran fine but the power was slightly down and the tapping noise was what sounds like the injectors...

Could have just sold it but decided to rebuild it at a cost of £2500 in parts alone....

I'm now happy with the way it goes now and I've eliminated the main failure point...

Daz


----------



## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

TT Tom TT said:


> rods bend at 300ft/lb as mentioned.
> 
> - With a K418T WMI FMIC V4 mani advanced timing and boost you're looking at more like 350+HP and similar torque so you will absolutely need rods.





NickG said:


> It's not a case of 301 and fix your rods, no one has said that, it's common knowledge that it's a close figure and that's an aggressive map only makes that worse! Wak is running 400 odd as far as I'm aware on standard rods, because his delivery is smooth... It's possible, more than possible, but if you want to be safe you buy forged rods.


Clearly you are not reading the same thread I am. 
I understand your point, you are not understanding what I'm addressing. People claiming rods are in danger at 300 ft/lbs exactly like this guy mentioned. This is where I jumped in to show him he is wrong, and then linked him to a "off the shelf" tune :roll: that runs 300 ft/lbs.

If you want to waste your money and buy rods to hit figures you can hit with the K04 then so be it. I don't plan on passing 400hp so I'm not interested in rebuilding the engine.



DazWaite said:


> Good old generic map you have then Gonzalo?
> 
> Used a lot of rollers in my time and most of them you had to press a switch at 2000rpm to activate the brake but if I pressed it at 1500rpm I'd easily see an extra 30bhp and 30lbs respectively....
> 
> ...


You do understand that in order to max out the K04, you need A map right? Clearly you do! Ofc you do! You talk as if you already know.

You need a base file, GTS imo provides the best off the shelf tunes, Gonzo specializes in the 1.8T engine, dude has spent 1000s of hours on the vw forums, and he's tuned as many cars. Show me any off the shelf tune that offers 300 ft/lbs of torque, can supply anti lag and launch control, and gives the best balance between power and safety? Answer: You can't.

I'm also not running a "generic map", seeing as I've adapted it myself, it is not the same as any Stage 2 GTS map out there, all the adaptations have been personally adjusted to my vehicle to hit desired marks, A/F, timing, etc. etc.

Do not be fooled either, I hit 24 psi very early in the RPM range, around the 4.5k like you mentioned.

The distinction between this map will also be massive once I finish the build with a manual boost controller and water meth, I plan to run as much boost as possible within a safe limit away from engine knocking and not exceeding 350 ft/lbs of torque at any given point.

I'm just going to leave it at that, until I wrap up the build and get some dynos, it's all here say anyways, just as much so as you guys claiming rods bend at 300 ft/lbs, my turbo will explode if I run 28 psi, and so on. :roll:


----------



## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Get some dyno's then Gonz !!!!

Not just some Dodgy Maf figures put on Ms Excel lol......

I wonder how long your little K04 shaft will last with its little tiny journal bearing lol

I hope you change your oil feed line regular dude cos it doesn't take much for them to partially clog up and cause the above...

Daz


----------



## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> Do not be fooled either, I hit 24 psi very early in the RPM range, around the 4.5k like you mentioned


But where is your torque peaking at?

Daz


----------



## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

DazWaite said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > Do not be fooled either, I hit 24 psi very early in the RPM range, around the 4.5k like you mentioned
> ...


Can't tell you, since I haven't gotten around to dyno-ing it bud.

So when I give you factual information towards maxing out the K04, your best comeback is warning me of basic maintenance issues? Lol. The argument is strong with this one.

Have fun with your $6,000 TT that you've spent $5,000 on to make 350bhp lmfao.


----------



## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

UK TT forum entertainment at its best! First a deranged individual pulling everyone's leg about all sort of crazy things -- then people that will never know what power is required to bend rods, arguing with someone that still doesn't know what power he's making but swears that his rods are indestructible (over an imaginary threshold) ... LMFAO, I love this place.


----------



## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

If I believe hard enough they may just become indestructible! LOL


----------



## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

peartcart12 said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> > No engine comes with Forged rods but everything else is, pistons are forged and made by Mahle (good for 400-450HP), crank is forged and good for 800HP, rods bend at 300ft/lb as mentioned.
> ...


It's expensive but has to be done. No point in doing all your mods and then a piston leaving its house to go out for a party with its good friend 'bonnet'.

I've got to do it myself too, I'm applying the same mods you are, currently buying them one bit at a time until I have everything and then getting everything done at once and having it all mapped too, I would advise you to do something similar for labour cost effectiveness !

Get the rods and unleash the FULL potential with a HARSH map with NO WORRIES and PIECE OF MIND :mrgreen:


----------



## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

"I passed the rod of power to myself"









_In a way, Gonzoism behaves like a fiction short story. An author desires the reader to feel a certain effect and uses the story to achieve the desired feelings. (Thompson did indeed trip acid and other drugs while in Las Vegas. He based Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas upon his acid trip adventure with Oscar Acosta. But he warped the truth in order to attain his goal of describing the "American Dream" to the reader.) Thompson believed that this approach advocated a certain truth that was otherwise difficult to achieve._

Yeh its late here :lol:


----------



## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

:lol:

You may not know the limits of this platform, but you sure are funny 3TT3 :-*


----------



## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

R-tech are 1.8T 20V specialists, they do this stuff day in and day out along with V6 R32 engine tuning and 2.0TFSI tuning. These guys are the 1.8T 20V gurus, I have phoned them myself to discuss rods with Niki Gower and he said that they do not go above 300ft/lb as rods DO typically leave the blocks above this threshold, here's the excerpt from R-tech:



> R-TECH PERFORMANCE TiV™ LIVE CUSTOM HYBRID TUNING REMAPPING SERVICE ONLY £390
> 
> R-Tech Performance can provide the very BEST and the most highly developed BBT K300 tuning methods your setup, we offer a full LIVE bespoke dyno calibration mapping session which can be set unique to how you want the setup, we can provide a nice linear progressive power delivery which should be rod safe, we can offer a kick ass aggressive method to eat up the 1/4 mile track, or a balance of both worlds which would be perfect for track days. If you want 1/4 mile fun and track day fun then we can provide the hybrid mapping with map switching up to 5 maps and/or gear dependent boost mapping.
> 
> ...


If there's anyone I'm going to believe it's R-tech, they will not put a car over 300 ft/lb of torque on stock rods for a good reason.


----------



## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

I have never heard of R-Tech, probably because they're not doing anything revolutionary with the 1.8T are they? lol..

I'm just going to copy this post again and leave it here, if you really think a business is going to help you extract the most out of your set up without worrying about liabilities and flat out idiots messing and wrecking their car then I'm glad they didn't put you over 300 ft/lbs :lol:



Gonzalo1495 said:


> Danny1 said:
> 
> 
> > Gonzalo1495 said:
> ...


Edit: I love how they end it with "epic results". That's all I'm going to say on that lmfao


----------



## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> I have never heard of R-Tech, probably because they're not doing anything revolutionary with the 1.8T are they? lol..


_______________________

"R-Tech tuned 1.8T 20vs won the fastest in class at the VAG ¼ mile sprint shows 2010-2011-2012-2013 and to aim to have the fastest car in class 2014 with some running sub 10s ¼ miles like the the 800hp+ HTA GT3582 Dubshack Mk4 4wd Golf 20v which we tuned in 2013 and now runs 10.5s. http://www.dubshackracing.co.uk/

The fastest 1.8T 20v Golf mk4 by far. 800bhp without NOS!!!! There's maybe another 100HP to add if we were to use NOS"

_______________________

Taken from "http://r-techperformance.co.uk/vag/1-8t-20v-tuning-info-golf-audi-seat-skoda/"


----------



## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

TT Tom TT said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > I have never heard of R-Tech, probably because they're not doing anything revolutionary with the 1.8T are they? lol..
> ...


Not to be the bearer of bad news but 10's and 800 bhp is nothing compared to what the top privateers and shop cars are running around here in the US. Collector would be the perfect guy to say how far behind in time they must be, but you'd have to seriously go back in time to when builders in the US were still running 10's and 800 BHP was big news.


----------



## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

Madmax199 said:


> Not to be the bearer of bad news but 10's and 800 bhp is nothing compared to what the top privateers and shop cars are running around here in the US. Collector would be the perfect guy to say how far behind in time they must be, but you'd have to seriously go back in time to when builders in the US were still running 10's and 800 BHP was big news.


... On 1.8T 20V's?


----------



## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

TT Tom TT said:


> Madmax199 said:
> 
> 
> > Not to be the bearer of bad news but 10's and 800 bhp is nothing compared to what the top privateers and shop cars are running around here in the US. Collector would be the perfect guy to say how far behind in time they must be, but you'd have to seriously go back in time to when builders in the US were still running 10's and 800 BHP was big news.
> ...


Yes!


----------



## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

Madmax199 said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> > Madmax199 said:
> ...


Source?


----------



## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

TT Tom TT said:


> Source?


According to ED, which is the shop local to me, they were doing numbers similar to R-Tech numbers circa 2006. The shop's name is Force Fed Engineering. You can go research Ed's car Evolution (BTW, he's not the only or top player in the US). 





Mike's P's car (also local to me) around 2013
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... -the-world


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> > Gonzalo1495 said:
> ...


That is bull shit Gonzo and you believe it :lol: ;there is no prof for that power,only tuner claims :lol:

This is my dyno,my tuner done 12-13 dyno runs till every thing was fine;he told me it`s to much torque for the rods,but i accept it because i was planning in the near future the change rods,another turbo,etc.
Unfortunately after i used a few times lunch control and no lift shift,maybe it was a spike in the first gear and i bend badly a rod and the result engine destroyed.


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## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

[/quote]
It's expensive but has to be done. No point in doing all your mods and then a piston leaving its house to go out for a party with its good friend 'bonnet'.

I've got to do it myself too, I'm applying the same mods you are, currently buying them one bit at a time until I have everything and then getting everything done at once and having it all mapped too, I would advise you to do something similar for labour cost effectiveness !

Get the rods and unleash the FULL potential with a HARSH map with NO WORRIES and PIECE OF MIND ::[/quote]
Hi Tom, your spot on with everything you say m8, my head is all over the place with what to do next, my relentless v4 manifold turned up yesterday, just waiting on my bbt turbo to be built, i was then going to get wmi and put it all on with a Wak remap,which would of cost about £600-700 but now with the con rod issue and the expense of just fitting new rods i now plan on building a 2.0 engine, i could just get the rods done but my tt has 90,000 on clock so something else could give up the ghost, and what with winter looming i am thinking that i dont really need all this extra power from the mani/bbt/wmi at the moment, so that seems like a waste of money especially as i should have my new engine built before next summer, So thats the plan, i think :lol:


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

3TT3 said:


> "I passed the rod of power to myself"
> 
> 
> _In a way, Gonzoism behaves like a fiction short story. An author desires the reader to feel a certain effect and uses the story to achieve the desired feelings. (Thompson did indeed trip acid and other drugs while in Las Vegas. He based Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas upon his acid trip adventure with Oscar Acosta. But he warped the truth in order to attain his goal of describing the "American Dream" to the reader.) Thompson believed that this approach advocated a certain truth that was otherwise difficult to achieve._
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol:

This guy is nuts!!! Love it though. And love the constant enthusiasm to write ludicrously long posts!


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## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

Hi, here are some very good stats taken from a very good source,,,,,,,,,,,,Here's some facts pertaining to high performance applications of these engines:

All 1.8T TTs have a forged crank and pistons.

Yes, all TTs, right down to the FWD have forged internals (minus the rods). The stock crank has yet to break from a high HP applicatoin, same with the pistons; they are made by Mahle and have withstood over 700 bhp. The part prone to failure is the rods, which is discussed below.

Rods in 1.8T TTs vary in size, but some 180 and 225 models have the same rods.

The ATC engine, used in model year 2000 TTs, uses 20mm wrist pin rods, which makes its internals identical (strength wise) to those used in both 225 motors. However, in 2001, Audi started using the AWP motor which does in fact have weaker 19mm rods. The rods shouldn't be trusted for applications above roughly 300 ft-lbs of torque.


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

hang your idols said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > http://tunedbygts.com/s2amu
> ...


How is it bullshit? Lmao. I've logged my torque on VCDS and have exceeded the 404nm. Many other people run this tune as well, I think it's more of a case of you wanting to believe it's bullshit :lol:

Also, your "tuner" failed to tame the torque, you can clearly see it starts skyrocketing at 2000rpm and peaks at 3500 rpm. "Lunch control" had nothing to do with your rods snapping, just a bad tune and a reckless driver.

Again, as far as rods go, I've said it before, rods depend on the tune you're running. There is no set number for when they go, it depends how much torque you're making and how soon in the power band. Had boost been lowered or delayed in the beginning of the power band you might have had a different story to tell.


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Ok,you are smart,know everything(but you are not a tuner,just a guy which take measurements with VCDS),other people and tuners are stupid and don`t know a shit;right? :lol: 
We are living in different planets,not only continents :lol: 
Have a nice weekend,you are very funny person :lol:

PS.-which channel you can measure torque?,the far us i know,only on diesel cars it`s possible and maximum it`s for 400nm?
PS 2-if i`m reckless,you are a grandmother,which is worst? :lol:
PS3-any real proof for that power and torque claimed from your tuner?,or only logs with VCDS?


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

hang your idols said:


> Ok,you are smart,know everything(but you are not a tuner,just a guy which take measurements with VCDS),other people and tuners are stupid and don`t know a shit;right? :lol:
> We are living in different planets,not only continents :lol:
> Have a nice weekend,you are very funny person :lol:
> 
> PS.-which channel you can measure torque?,the far us i know,only on diesel cars it`s possible and maximum it`s for 400nm?


I didn't claim to be smart, I am just pointing out the obvious, your tune had way to much torque early on, that is what caused your rods to go. 
I also didn't claim to be a tuner, but if you want to be on the complete other end of the spectrum and take everything anyone ever tells you for gospel from the all mighty rod gods then so be it :lol:

Block 1*20 measures torque, in nm. The maximum the ecu can predict is 404nm like I mentioned. 
You can also calculate a butt dyno with VCDS as well, these are all ecu 'guesses' though and not 100% on point

I still find it funny people who don't even know how to use VCDS are going to tell me I'm full of shit. Hilarious.


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Ok,i will check myself channel 20,thanks;the other thinks i don`t comment,it`s getting to childish :lol:
PS.-i didn`t told you are full of shit,the other things are :lol:


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

hang your idols said:


> Ok,i will check myself channel 20,thanks;the other thinks i don`t comment,it`s getting to childish :lol:


I forgot the 1, like I just edited. It's block 120


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

OK mate


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Gonz....it was only a few months ago you was thinking of replacing your N249 with an mbc lol..

Any forum member can look at your not so long ago posts/topics just to see how much you actually "know the 20v" as you like to make out....

You go on about GTS tuning being the best.....but it was only a few months ago you was looking into Revo and Uni?

How can this be?

Daz


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

DazWaite said:


> Gonz....it was only a few months ago you was thinking of replacing your N249 with an mbc lol..
> 
> Any forum member can look at your not so long ago posts/topics just to see how much you actually "know the 20v" as you like to make out....
> 
> ...


I never said replacing, I said running in parallel. I even linked you to an article explaining the differences since it was clear you didn't understand what you were talking about, but you never replied surprisingly :roll:

I've had this tune since March of this year bud, that's more than a "few months" ago :roll:

Let's keep this objective, I know you're trying hard but you're not stating facts. Let's also focus on the argument and not slander since it's a sign you've run out of gibberish to post lol


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Wasn't that post but something to do with your N249 and a split hose.....

But now you mention it....Do you still think you can get more boost by running an mbc in parallel with N75?

Daz


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I think Max's statement to Gomz earlier about walking the walk before talking the talk was quite apt.

We can all read a few old threads and suddenly become experts.


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Sounds about right James.....

the forge splitter one was the best lol.....

Daz


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

DazWaite said:


> Wasn't that post but something to do with your N249 and a split hose.....
> 
> But now you mention it....Do you still think you can get more boost by running an mbc in parallel with N75?
> 
> Daz


The point of a MBC is not to run more boost, it's to set a cap to deal with boost spikes and all that. If you run a MBC alone like you mentioned, and you try to run a lot of boost, you're gonna have a bad time. 
Go look up that thread bud, I posted a very good thread that will enlighten you on MBCs and the 3 different ways to run them 



jamman said:


> I think Max's statement to Gomz earlier about walking the walk before talking the talk was quite apt.
> 
> We can all read a few old threads and suddenly become experts.


You're right, that's why I'm no longer discussing maxing out the K04 until I do it myself. Doesn't mean I don't know anything about MBCs and the tune I'm currently running tho :-*
Let's try to understand what you post before you hit that submit button champ


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> DazWaite said:
> 
> 
> > Gonzalo1495 said:
> ...


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

No offence to anyone, I just have to post this because it made me chuckle so hard...


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

NickG said:


> No offence to anyone, I just have to post this because it made me chuckle so hard...


Epic :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

You're right Nick.......

Daz


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## TTVince (Jan 22, 2015)

............


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

DazWaite said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > DazWaite said:
> ...


" it's to set a cap to deal with boost spikes and all that. If you run a MBC alone like you mentioned, and you try to run a lot of boost, you're gonna have a bad time. "
You clearly did not read the thread I listed. Anyone can paint an argument in their favor. Like I said, the point of running a mbc in parallel is to set a cap for boost spikes. 








http://www.audiworld.com/forums/s4-rs4- ... p-1526679/
I urge you to take a read at how these work :roll:


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

NickG said:


> No offence to anyone, I just have to post this because it made me chuckle so hard...


That is classic


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Gonz.......I know what parallel is.....I'm running mine in parallel lol.


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

DazWaite said:


> Gonz.......I know what parallel is.....I'm running mine in parallel lol.


You then wrote this:


DazWaite said:


> That wouldn't be in parallel then dude.....
> 
> Daz


After the quote you pulled from that thread.
So either you have no idea what you're talking about... or you have no idea what you're talking about. lol
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1113793&p=6283041&hilit=+parallel#p6283041

I'm just gonna leave it at this* bud, clearly you've got some [smiley=book2.gif] to do, and I've spent more than enough time keyboard warrior-ing lol.


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> ,Keep in mind you won't be able to squeeze much out of it without running WMI and at that point you should also consider upping your boost with a MBC run in parallel with the N75 (for a more natural powerband).


You put this hypocritical post lol....

i was merely stating that you can't raise the boost level with an mbc in parallel to N75...

Ive worked in the motorsport industry for over 20 years Gonz and members that know me will tell you that your shitting on the wrong chessboard lol....

Daz


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Gonzy do you want to borrow my spade for that hole you're in.


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

DazWaite said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > ,Keep in mind you won't be able to squeeze much out of it without running WMI and at that point you should also consider upping your boost with a MBC run in parallel with the N75 (for a more natural powerband).
> ...


It's how you worded your post bruh, first you say it's not parallel, then you say it is. My post has not changed from when it was posted in that thread to where it was quoted by you in this one. So what gives? :roll: That's my point lol.


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

jamman said:


> Gonzy do you want to borrow my spade for that hole you're in.


Throw some hot UK girls and some beer in here and I'll be good


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

I've not deleted or edited any posts so go figure that one out lol....


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

DazWaite said:


> I've not deleted or edited any posts so go figure that one out lol....


You're not understanding.
When I posted that the first time in the older thread, you stated "That's not running in parallel dude"
In this thread you stated it was. 
Someone who claims to know what running a mbc in parallel is would not have contradicted themselves. [smiley=bomb.gif] That has been my point.

And with that, I'll toss the shovel over to you Daz. Give me a hand outta here Jamman :lol:


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Whatever Gonz.........

You've obviously got yer head up your own Arse or even someone else's......

Daz


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

I agree you can run 300 or maybe more but its the torque that bends the weak standard rods, about 320lb ft is near the top end.


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## cam69 (Dec 22, 2011)

My boost is capped low down you can see this from my dyno graph please excuse the slightly lean afr it has been logged since many times and does not run lean :-/


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

cam69 said:


> My boost is capped low down you can see this from my dyno graph please excuse the slightly lean afr it has been logged since many times and does not run lean :-/


Better safe than sorry


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Hi Cam.....where does it show your afr running slightly lean dude? Looking at the plot it's very similar to mine but mine starts running richer going from lambda 1(0.998) down to 0.785 at around 6500rpm...

Daz


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## cam69 (Dec 22, 2011)

It shows it being slighty above 0.8 but when logged with me7 logger actual and request are spot on and runs around 0.78 at top end.


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

DazWaite said:


> Hi Cam.....where does it show your afr running slightly lean dude? Looking at the plot it's very similar to mine but mine starts running richer going from lambda 1(0.998) down to 0.785 at around 6500rpm...
> Daz


Looking at his graph, it seems that his lambda dropped down to 0.8 initially (which is OK but not great for best performance on a car on pump gas), then started swelling up closer to 0.83/0.84 as the rev went up (it should be the opposite where there is small gradual taper towards redline for safety).

So if I'm reading the graph properly, I believe his statement is accurate about having a lean spot. A bit off topic, but an observation I have been making with the tuning phylosophy in the 1.8t community is that tuners and companies tend to go leaner than needed with the fuel curve. It is not unusual to see 0.80 lamda (or more) sustained while on boost. This is very weird for pump gas where running a bit richer would afford more boost and timing as thefatter fuel curve acts as a cooling agent against high Cyl pressure, EGT and knock. I am guessing that the practice of running lean just got copied around and nobody (as a tuner or company) never really cared to change the culture.

0.78 slightly tapering to 0.75 is the most I'd ever venture to do while on-boost on pump gas. Personally, I would even go a tick fatter than that so I can run a healthy boost and timing curve without having timing corrections stepping in to ruin the party. Can anyone explain why the 1.8t tuning community is so set on setting such lean on-boost AFR?


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## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

Because leaner is meaner!


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## cam69 (Dec 22, 2011)

Madmax199 said:


> DazWaite said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Cam.....where does it show your afr running slightly lean dude? Looking at the plot it's very similar to mine but mine starts running richer going from lambda 1(0.998) down to 0.785 at around 6500rpm...
> ...


Hi max it only did this on the dyno when it's logged the actual and requested always stay just below 0.8 and they got there data through obd2 port.engine is a bam so wideband lambda. Is there any reason it would have done this on a dyno but on the road it's fine?


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

CollecTTor said:


> Because leaner is meaner!


Yes, meaner in the sense that it will add stress to intenal components and promote them failing and breaking! On E85 you can shoot for lambda for best TQ which is at 0.82-0.84 (in theory it should be 0.85 but running there never produced more power than 0.83 just more heat... at least my observation with the 1.8t). For pump gas ideal AFR is way richer... too bad the 1.8t "tuners" don't realize or care to make the proper adjustments.


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

cam69 said:


> Madmax199 said:
> 
> 
> > DazWaite said:
> ...


Did they use an external sensor (maybe a tailpipe sniffer)? If an external sensor was used you might not get the exact same as your factory sensor.

Another thing I would see being a factor possibly is load. If the load placed on the rollers is very high compared to say the piece of flat land people usually use for logging purposes, then the AFR curve might be referencing diferent cells (not every tune is mapped for the same AFR in every load cells).

PS: O2 sensors are cusumables too, over time they loose their accuracy and such. So don't put too much into it if you're logging acceptable AFR with the OBD in the car


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## cam69 (Dec 22, 2011)

Madmax199 said:


> cam69 said:
> 
> 
> > Madmax199 said:
> ...


Ok thanks for that it was checked through the obd2 port. Lambda Is genuine and only 1 year old it always loggs fine for afr so I'm not to worried just interested to know why it went lean. Wak did also say the loading of the dyno could effect it.


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## chisharpe (May 27, 2017)

[smiley=freak.gif]


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## Gtturbo (Jan 7, 2017)

1.8t are perfectly fine at 0.82/0.8 lambda at redline.

If you want to add fuel in for say when car is beaten on more than 1-2 pulls aka track. 
Then use the EGT tables to lower lambda request and change the egt threshold to suit.

Then if your scared of knock, use the knock tables for fuelling.

If your not using egt, iat, coolant, knock dependant tables correctly.... I have to ask if you're aware it's 2018? and if you understand how well the motronic can control when you pay the time to use the functions correctly rather than the common lazy tuner style FFing/255ing/zeroing or oneing off tables inside these which can be used so well


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## Gtturbo (Jan 7, 2017)

hang your idols said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > hang your idols said:
> ...


Everyone picked on this guy.

Yet failed to read no lift shift/launch control.

At 400nm/295lbft it's barely rod breaking.

Rods bend for a few reasons
Tuner put no lift shit/ spank control on. Owner abuses no lift shit / spank control often showing off.

Tuner lets it knock and correct throughout rev range.
Tuner makes it peak boost over 1.5bar
Tuner raises Rev limit too much.

Cylinder pressure and revs breaks rods remember this.


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## Trouble4 (Oct 4, 2012)

All I know you all have been paying to much for your products let us give you a quote is all I ask 

[email protected]

everything USPS Priority International Mail/Post

Looking at DHL as well

in the past have sold many BT builds in UK

or PM on Here you can see My join date


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## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

Trouble4 said:


> All I know you all have been paying to much for your products let us give you a quote is all I ask
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> ...


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