# Acronyms/Americanism(!)



## sonicmonkey (Mar 20, 2004)

SUV's/MPV's/Rims?? F**k off....Silly imported words.

For example, reading Car magazine and it describes the new Land Rover Discovery as an SUV arrrrgggghhhhhhh!!!!! WHY? It's been a fecking "four wheel drive" since the beginning of time......

I blame MTV's cribs.....bastards.


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## ray (Jul 1, 2004)

Yes... it's a sad sad world that we live in.

Had to read some GSM spec the other for work. Now try that for full of acronyms...

R.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Yes, let's use the full English denomination for _everything_.....am, pm, ps, DNA, GBH, RSPCA, TNT, *GSM*, WWW. :roll:

FFS :wink:


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## paulatt (Oct 28, 2002)

Its just like SMS language - incomprehensible.


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

paulatt said:


> Its just like SMS language - incomprehensible.


to anyone over the age of 13


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

S'funny how those flaming against acronyms have all, without exception, used other acronyms that _they_ understand and use, in their body text. :roll:

Check: MTV, GSM and SMS. Not acronyms? :wink: :roll:


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

If a company launched a new product/standard/protocol etc, and they called it say "FHR" without any reason, they just needed a short name, would that still constitute an acronym? Don't suppose it would.

If everyone did this then we'd have to stop bleating about acronyms as there wouldn't be any. Unless you wanted to abbreviate FHR to F.

No?


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Carlos said:


> If a company launched a new product/standard/protocol etc, and they called it say "FHR" without any reason, they just needed a short name, would that still constitute an acronym? Don't suppose it would.
> 
> If everyone did this then we'd have to stop bleating about acronyms as there wouldn't be any. Unless you wanted to abbreviate FHR to F.
> 
> No?


N.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

garyc said:


> S'funny how those flaming against acronyms have all, without exception, used other acronyms that _they_ understand and use, in their body text. :roll:
> 
> Check: MTV, GSM and SMS. Not acronyms? :wink: :roll:


Even better, is the line from his sig:



> TTC 225, Milltek MKII, Tarox Discs/EBC Green Stuff


TTC is obviously OK? MK for Mark? EBC probably stands for something too...

Fucking hypocrite (FH) :lol:


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

I thought for a minute you were going to attempt to find a meaning for FHR when there isn't one.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Carlos said:


> I thought for a minute you were going to attempt to find a meaning for FHR when there isn't one.


http://www.fhr.org.za/

 :lol:


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## MacBuff (Aug 11, 2004)

garyc said:


> Yes, let's use the full English denomination for _everything_.....am, pm, ps, DNA, GBH, RSPCA, TNT, *GSM*, WWW. :roll:
> 
> FFS :wink:


And 'TT' 

John


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## sonicmonkey (Mar 20, 2004)

Subject line wasn't the best I could/should have chosen. Should really read acronyms/americanism....

Was objecting to the use of terms such as SUV's/MPV's to describe four wheel drive and fecking vans.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

sonicmonkey said:


> Subject line wasn't the best I could/should have chosen. Should really read acronyms/americanism....
> 
> Was objecting to the use of terms such as SUV's/MPV's to describe four wheel drive and fecking vans.


Well why didn't you say so then? Pah...


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

cos you would have missed out on all the fun? 

Suburban Utility Ve-hickle.
Is that something to let you dig a variety of tunnels under a town?


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## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

garyc said:


> S'funny how those flaming against acronyms have all, without exception, used other acronyms that _they_ understand and use, in their body text. :roll:


DIRY hasn't done 

H


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## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

Hannibal said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > S'funny how those flaming against acronyms have all, without exception, used other acronyms that _they_ understand and use, in their body text. :roll:
> ...


Oh feck, it must be contagious...I've started doing it now too.....

H


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Hannibal said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > S'funny how those flaming against acronyms have all, without exception, used other acronyms that _they_ understand and use, in their body text. :roll:
> ...


Great irony H, DIRY itself being an acronym and all that. :wink:


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

does that count by the way? 

and did you notice that I did use the B one there either? 

MPV - Multi Purpose Vehicle. Show me one that isn't multi-purpose :?: (ok, with literally 1 or 2 exceptions).

Or is it Multi Person? (same question applies tho)


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## MacBuff (Aug 11, 2004)

Don't I Recognise You? said:


> ..
> MPV - Multi Purpose Vehicle. Show me one that isn't multi-purpose :?: ..


Show me one that floats 

John


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## StuarTT (May 7, 2002)

SUV = Sports Utility Vehicle, although I'm yet to see one that is truly sporty. [smiley=smash.gif]


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## jam (May 8, 2002)

sonicmonkey said:


> SUV's/MPV's/Rims?? F**k off....Silly imported words.


I didn't think 'rim' was an acronym

I thought it was just a slang word for wheel?

Am I wrong?


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## sonicmonkey (Mar 20, 2004)

jam said:


> sonicmonkey said:
> 
> 
> > SUV's/MPV's/Rims?? F**k off....Silly imported words.
> ...


Nope you're not wrong!

As I mentioned in a previous post the subject line should read acronym/*americanism*.....(will try changing it now!)


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Awesome.


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

garyc said:


> Awesome.


Dude


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

garyc said:


> Awesome.


gas station. :lol:


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

sonicmonkey said:


> jam said:
> 
> 
> > sonicmonkey said:
> ...


In fact thats not right either. the base language is latin and greek which i believe may use the Z its been bastardised over time and we now use S however you cant say its american to use Z cos in fact its actually more english than english now is.

Look it up !!


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> Yes, let's use the full English denomination for _everything_.....am, pm
> FFS :wink:


Go on then Gary, give us the "full English" on those two 

C


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > Awesome.
> ...


That's post number 2 from you which has actually caused me to laugh out loud!


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

clived said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, let's use the full English denomination for _everything_.....am, pm
> ...


Full Latin.

ante meridiem
poste meridiem

:wink:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

kmpowell said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > garyc said:
> ...


Only 2? From almost 10,000? That's a fucking shame that is...


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

[pedant mode on]*just like to point out that none of the examples given are acronyms.*[/pedant mode off]

An acronym is a word that is pronounced as such but is formed by the initial letters of each word. Like Laser and Nato.

And I'd have thought Gary would have picked up on that. :roll:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Kell said:


> [pedant mode on]*just like to point out that none of the examples given are acronyms.*[/pedant mode off]
> 
> An acronym is a word that is pronounced as such but is formed by the initial letters of each word. Like Laser and Nato.
> 
> And I'd have thought Gary would have picked up on that. :roll:


It's a "word" formed from the initial letters of other words.

Nothing in the definition about actually pronouncing it as such, as far as I know...

Hence "TLA" is an acronym - in fact its a self-describing acronym.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jampott said:


> Kell said:
> 
> 
> > [pedant mode on]*just like to point out that none of the examples given are acronyms.*[/pedant mode off]
> ...


Absolutely correct. I'd have thought Kell would have know that. :roll:

The recent discovery of 'lead in his pencil' may be affecting his confidence levels. :wink:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

garyc said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > Kell said:
> ...


Tsk tsk... bloody dads to be, eh? [smiley=knife.gif]


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

My original post came from listening to Will Self argue the case in point - and I'd rather agree with him than either of you two.

However, my dictionary defines it as follows.

acronym. a word usu pronounced as such, formed from the initial letters of other words eg Ernie, Laser, Nato

the Cambridge dictionary:

Definition
acronym [Show phonetics]
noun [C]
an abbreviation consisting of the first letters of each word in the name of something, pronounced as a word:
AIDS is an acronym for 'Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome'.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Kell said:


> My original post came from listening to Will Self argue the case in point - and I'd rather agree with him than either of you two.
> 
> However, my dictionary defines it as follows.
> 
> ...


"usu" = usually?

I'd pronounce GSM as Gee-Ess-Emm, wouldn't you? :lol:

The OED is my own reference for "TLA" being a self-describing acronym - so they obviously believe that either:

a) pronounciation isn't a key part of something being an acronym or,
b) pronouncing TLA as TEE-ELL-AY is sufficient.

Ergo SUV, MPV are all acronyms.

QED. (that's quite a cool bit of irony)


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## Steve_Mc (May 6, 2002)

I'm with Kell I'm afraid. GSM is clearly three letters and is pronounced as such. If it was pronounced as a word it would be "gism" (no chortling at the back there). Acronym describes shortening of inital letters to form a _word_, such as Nabisco (National Biscuit Company), NATO etc. The shortening of initial letters to a number of letters not pronounced as a word I'd have to call an abbreviation.

But what do I know, I got a C in English Language O-level [smiley=dunce2.gif]


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Still not agreeing with you. The fact that GSM is pronounced Jee-ess-emm doesn't make it a word as the the letters are not promounced any differently than they would be if they had a comma between them. IF anything, to make it an acronym you'd probably need it to be GloSyM - although that's shit, it's what I would call an acronym.

In the examples above, you're not promouncing a word, you're spelling it out. Off the top of my (bald) head, I can't think of any words that are pronounced in exactly the same way as the letters that make them. There are, obviously words that sound like letters: Bee, Sea, aye, jay, em, oh, pea, queue, etc, but that's not the same thing.

It's my belief that TLA is a misnomer as it's not what I would call an acronym.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Steve_Mc said:


> I'm with Kell I'm afraid. GSM is clearly three letters and is pronounced as such. If it was pronounced as a word it would be "gism" (no chortling at the back there). Acronym describes shortening of inital letters to form a _word_, such as Nabisco (National Biscuit Company), NATO etc. The shortening of initial letters to a number of letters not pronounced as a word I'd have to call an abbreviation.
> 
> But what do I know, I got a C in English Language O-level [smiley=dunce2.gif]


I hear what you are saying, but Nabsico isn't the "initial letters" is it? :lol:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Kell said:


> Still not agreeing with you. The fact that GSM is pronounced Jee-ess-emm doesn't make it a word as the the letters are not promounced any differently than they would be if they had a comma between them. IF anything, to make it an acronym you'd probably need it to be GloSyM - although that's shit, it's what I would call an acronym.
> 
> In the examples above, you're not promouncing a word, you're spelling it out. Off the top of my (bald) head, I can't think of any words that are pronounced in exactly the same way as the letters that make them. There are, obviously words that sound like letters: Bee, Sea, aye, jay, em, oh, pea, queue, etc, but that's not the same thing.
> 
> It's my belief that TLA is a misnomer as it's not what I would call an acronym.


I don't make the rules, fella... tell that to the OED!!


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Well my concise Oxford Dictionary doesn't have TLA I'm afraid - but it does have TLC and TLS. And describes both as abbreviations.


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## Steve_Mc (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> Steve_Mc said:
> 
> 
> > I'm with Kell I'm afraid. GSM is clearly three letters and is pronounced as such. If it was pronounced as a word it would be "gism" (no chortling at the back there). Acronym describes shortening of inital letters to form a _word_, such as Nabisco (National Biscuit Company), NATO etc. The shortening of initial letters to a number of letters not pronounced as a word I'd have to call an abbreviation.
> ...


Errr yes they are. In true pedant mode the word Nabisco is made up of the intial letter*s* of all three words. I also looked up TLA in the OED and it doesn't exist?


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Steve_Mc said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > Steve_Mc said:
> ...


www.askoxford.com


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## Steve_Mc (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> Steve_Mc said:
> 
> 
> > jampott said:
> ...


Not the OED is it Tim me old mucker...(I have the OED on my desktop through my Bloomberg terminal.....)


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Kell said:


> My original post came from listening to Will Self argue the case in point - and I'd rather agree with him than either of you two.
> 
> However, my dictionary defines it as follows.
> 
> ...


You conveniently chose two dictionaries that mention 'pronounciation' but completely ignored the term 'formed' in the Cambridge. :roll:

Websters, on the other hand, _only_ refer to acronyms in context of 'forming' words with the first letters of several:

One entry found for acronym.

Main Entry: acÂ·roÂ·nym 
Pronunciation: 'a-kr&-"nim
Function: noun
Etymology: acr- + -onym
: a word (as NATO, radar, or snafu) *formed* from the initial letter or letters of each of the successive parts or major parts of a compound term; *also : an abbreviation* (as FBI) formed from initial letters : INITIALISM
- acÂ·roÂ·nymÂ·ic /"a-kr&-'ni-mik/ adjective
- acÂ·roÂ·nymÂ·iÂ·calÂ·ly /-mi-k(&-)lE/ adverb

So could Kell and Steve M tell us how to pronounce FBI? As it seems to be an acronym.  No. you do *not* pronounce it 'fuck off smart arse.'


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## Steve_Mc (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> Kell said:
> 
> 
> > My original post came from listening to Will Self argue the case in point - and I'd rather agree with him than either of you two.
> ...


From the OED;



> acronym ("&[email protected]). orig. U.S. [f. acr(o- + -onym
> after homonym.]
> A word formed from the initial letters of other words. Hence
> as v. trans., to convert into an acronym (chiefly pass. and
> ...


Note it says a *word* formed, and what with TLA, FBI, SUV, GSM etc not being in the OED at all, I would say that they are therefore *not words* and thus not acronyms. They are not abbreviations either, as strictly speaking an abbreviation needs a full stop after each letter e.g. F.B.I, so as the Chambers rightly points out, the correct term is initialism. Once again from the OED:



> initialism (In"[email protected]). [f. initial n. + -ism.]
> The use of initials; a significative group of initial letters.
> Now spec. a group of initial letters used as an abbreviation
> for a name or expression, each letter or part being pronounced
> separately (contrasted with acronym).


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Taking pedantry to higher levels. Respect. 

Kell, what are we going to do? Usurped at the high alter of pedantry. 

..and he's not even English.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

I'm just pleased as it seems I might have won one of our discussions for once.

GO STE-EVE, GO STE-EVE.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Er, jolly well done Kell. I just knew you were capable. You dark horse you. :wink:

Such moments count.

Hurrah etc.

[smiley=mexicanwave.gif]


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