# 159 mph police officer let-off



## jonno (May 7, 2002)

What is it about the UK justice system that makes it OK to do 159mph if you're a PC not answering an emergency call, yet others who depend on a license for work get done for 10% over the limit.... :evil:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shro ... 559173.stm


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Hmmmn. It's OK because he's a good driver.

Fucking nonsense. What about if I was 'familiarising myself with my new car'?


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## Boba FeTT (Jan 29, 2005)

his "creme de la creme" of police drivers!


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

So if we get a racing license and get more advanced driving training, will it be OK to do this speed too?

What is this shit about him been trained with firearms has to do with this case?

In fact familiarising with a new car that way is extremely dangerous as you don't know how the car can do at this speed.


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## Loz180 (Sep 20, 2004)

One rule for us, another for them. But then they do risk their lives in the pursuit of our saftey.

They do have a responsibility far greater than we could possibly fathom, being on the outside. It must be one of the hardest jobs in the world, being a copper orin the armed services. They get paid to put themselves in harms way. TO be frank, if the get let off driving fast in a safe situation (under test conditions, presumably?) then is it really so bad?

I'd rather they knew how to handle the 160mph car than didn't :?

...again.. I don't expect this to be a popular view...


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

> One rule for us, another for them. But then they do risk their lives in the pursuit of our saftey.
> 
> They do have a responsibility far greater than we could possibly fathom, being on the outside. It must be one of the hardest jobs in the world, being a copper orin the armed services. They get paid to put themselves in harms way. TO be frank, if the get let off driving fast in a safe situation (under test conditions, presumably?) then is it really so bad?
> 
> I'd rather they knew how to handle the 160mph car than didn't


Agree.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Problem is, if it is "safe" for him to do that ON THE PUBLIC HIGHWAY, then ultimately there is no such thing as a Speed Limit.

If he wanted to test how that particular car handled at speed, he should have taken it on a private test track, or on the Autobahn or whatever.

If it isn't safe for ME to travel over 100mph, why is it safe for a copper? Setting aside the fact he is a well trained and observant driver - NOTHING can account for Joe Public, aged 75. Not being able to judge the speed of Mr 159mph, wandering into the fast lane would have resulted in an unholy mess - and no amount of being "creme de la creme" would have prevented that.

If normal drivers aren't expecting an unmarked car to be doing those speeds (unlike, say, Germany) they aren't safe NO MATTER WHO IS DRIVING.

Or they are. In which case, the speed limit needs to be increased or removed.


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## jonno (May 7, 2002)

Well so far only Loz is straying into the "its ok, he's a trained plod camp"
I'd expected 100% support from you lot ! :wink:

Was this actually a police car? What did he get with our hard-earned tax revenues that would do 160? Can they not afford to evaluate them on track days/private roads?

Can you imagine the cost to the tax-payer (us) if he'd killed someone?
Notwithstanding the fact your loved-one was killed in the process of "the creme de la creme PC" "evaluating" his new motor.
Total hypocrisy


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

IIRC it was a Vectra - 159mph 

surely the case should have been thrown out as a tissue of lies :lol:


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Sorry Loz, James.

Without it being just a knee-jerk reaction and me saying one rule for them and another for us, I did think about this before I posted.

Yes, I'm all in favour of them learning how to handle their cars properly, but a public road is not the place to do it. As far as I'm concerned not only should they know better, they should be setting an example.

Or, conversely, anyone with a similar ability should also be allowed to drive at that speed. Like Tim says, it's either safe or it isn't.

Or perhaps your top speed should be goverened by your driving test results. If you get 100%, then you're allowed to go 100% of your car's speed, whereas those that got 50% can only go 70mph. :roll:


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

If he had been off duty he would of been banned the fact he was on duty makes all the difference IMO, Police are trained in pursuit driving on the highways to gain the experience needed to do the job they do, there's no tracks or private roads or simulators that can give you the same situations they are likely to come up against in real life. The problem is with the Mercia force that brought the prosocution in the first place.
Would you rather he was banned which would of meant im not being able to continue doing his job and the loss of his fire arms liecence :? good coppers are hard enough to come by as it is.
Jonah


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## jonno (May 7, 2002)

digimeisTTer said:


> IIRC it was a Vectra - 159mph
> 
> surely the case should have been thrown out as a tissue of lies :lol:


I'm scared at the thought of someone being in a vectra @159mph.... eek!


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

jonno said:


> digimeisTTer said:
> 
> 
> > IIRC it was a Vectra - 159mph
> ...


Very dangerous indeed driving such a shit car flat out.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

jonah said:


> If he had been off duty he would of been banned the fact he was on duty makes all the difference IMO, Police are trained in pursuit driving on the highways to gain the experience needed to do the job they do, there's no tracks or private roads or simulators that can give you the same situations they are likely to come up against in real life. The problem is with the Mercia force that brought the prosocution in the first place.
> Would you rather he was banned which would of meant im not being able to continue doing his job and the loss of his fire arms liecence :? good coppers are hard enough to come by as it is.
> Jonah


This was NOT a training exercise. He was just joy riding.


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## fastasflip (May 13, 2003)

Talk about waste of public money, why are the police who reported the driver and the CPS even bringing this case to court. It would be interesting to know how much it all costed the tax payer. Surley if the PC's Superviser would have asked him he would have given the same answer as he did to the Jury saving Â£1000s.

The police do a six week advanced driving course which is taken sometime after they have already completed a 3 week standard course which involves some response driving. On the advanced courses these speeds are reach on a regular basis. Presuming this bobby was on duty and in a job car you can't expect him to bimble round for 8hrs in a new car before being involved in a high speed pursuit only to find at 150mph his car handles like a bad tempered camel.

Good luck to the lad it's good to see British Justice does work now and again


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## Nimbus (Sep 20, 2002)

Loz180 said:


> One rule for us, another for them. But then they do risk their lives in the pursuit of our saftey.


Actually, from the stats relating to unneccesary deaths caused by police pursuits, its mostly *our* lives they risk..

Never mind the 159mph charge, what about the 120mph in a 60 zone, and 60 in a 30... :evil: how was that 'familiarising' himself with the car ?

Just reminds me of every time you see one of these 'police chase' programs on TV, with a PC hurtling round housing estates at 60+ to stop a moped or similiar insignificant crime... Is it really worth the risk !


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Police in Kent decided to strip away the sirens from most of their police cars that are not driven by advanced drivers. Only the best trained drivers will be allowed to drive the siren equipped cars at high speed.

This is because they cause so many accidents.


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## chip (Dec 24, 2002)

So it seems the rally drivers they nicked (2/3 years ago?) for speeding doesn't qualify under the "creme de la creme" category,..


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## CapTT (Mar 2, 2003)

The law is the law and should be applied fairly to everybody regardless of class or profession. End of story. He should have been banned like everybody else would be.

I can`t see what the CPS were trying to achieve here ?. This is another PR cock-up big style. Making the police seem even stupider than they already are. Firstly this PC shopped himself using evidence from his own in-car camera etc.. Then the CPS called his mates as witnesses in the case for the prosecution and of course they backed him up. The judge was probably in the same lodge anyway so why waste taxpayers money in a futile load of bollocks ?. Perhaps he is being paid by Vauxhall as a desperate measure to promote the vectra ?.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shro ... 559173.stm


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## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

chip said:


> So it seems the rally drivers they nicked (2/3 years ago?) for speeding doesn't qualify under the "creme de la creme" category,..


But thats different, they were (in the case of the WRC drivers championship contenders) exceptionally drivers with exceptionally good reflexes, drivng cars designed with exceptional performance, exceptionally good brakes, and exceptionally good handling.

By comparison, some months back I nearly had a head on with a "creme de la creme" driver cornering far to fast and crossing over into my oncoming path. This was in a 30 area and there was no blues and twos.


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## TTotal (Aug 12, 2002)

Just imagine the costs ( as mentioned before ) that have built up as.........

Pc Mark Milton, 38, from Telford, Shropshire, was recorded by the patrol car's video camera on the M54 in *2003*, Ludlow Magistrates' Court heard.

Two years of costs ? ? ? ?

My one hour with a barrister cost me Â£950 during my divorce hearing .....


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

> My one hour with a barrister cost me Â£950 during my divorce hearing .....


Why didn't I study law?


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## CapTT (Mar 2, 2003)

vlastan said:


> > My one hour with a barrister cost me Â£950 during my divorce hearing .....
> 
> 
> Why didn't I study law?


Do they have law in Greece ?.

Thought it was just a system of quantative bribes ?.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

CapTT said:


> vlastan said:
> 
> 
> > > My one hour with a barrister cost me Â£950 during my divorce hearing .....
> ...


All my university education was done in the UK. So I couldn't have studied law in the UK

Don't forget that Greece invented Democracy in this planet. So I am sure that between bribes there is law as well. :wink:


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

just heard this on the 'proper' news. 159 in a 70 is bad, but 84 in a 30 is just ridiculous.


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## muTTley (Mar 15, 2004)

the rospa people seem to be saying it's inherently dangerous for any car to be doing that speed on a road. this is plainly nonsense given it was a car built for performance, driven by a professional and in the early hours. from experience i know that bit of road will be disserted - the only thaing at risk may have been a badger. and anyway they do it in germany - it's not like a car will spontaneaously explode if you go over a hundred.

live in the real world - we might be grateful one day that a policeman can get to us quickly for whatever reason.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

muTTley said:


> the rospa people seem to be saying it's inherently dangerous for any car to be doing that speed on a road. this is plainly nonsense given it was a car built for performance, driven by a professional and in the early hours. from experience i know that bit of road will be disserted - the only thaing at risk may have been a badger. and anyway they do it in germany - it's not like a car will spontaneaously explode if you go over a hundred.
> 
> live in the real world - we might be grateful one day that a policeman can get to us quickly for whatever reason.


Sorry, but a deserted road is still a road. You cannot possibly "know" that a piece of road will be deserted, and to assume so is foolhardy at those speeds.

They do it in Germany. But not just on any old road (84 in a 30mph?!) but on the out of town Autobahns. Not only that, other road users in Germany can reasonably EXPECT someone to trundle along at 150mph+ whereas in this country you don't.

I'm not doubting the perception and skill of the driver. I'm simply saying that Joe Public has a right NOT to expect this on his/her road, and could easily cause an accident because of this...


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## GlendaBabe (Feb 10, 2005)

vlastan said:


> What is this shit about him been trained with firearms has to do with this case?


Has to be firearmed trained as well so as to be able to shoot out the tyres of the illegal vehicle with the criminally spaced number plate letters whilst he knee steers his own vehicle at 159 mph such high skills are so hard to achieve bit like John Wayne shooting indians from horseback!!! He should be banned and locked up like any of us would have been no difference in my opion. 
Girly rant over now thank you ! [smiley=gorgeous.gif]


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## muTTley (Mar 15, 2004)

i'm simply saying that what the copper did was not the most dangerous thing to have happened on that road all day and that the actual risk, as opposed to the potential risk, was negligable.

if the guy needed high speed practice in a new car then that was probably the best place to do it - though i don't agree with speeding in 30 zones at all.

i occasionally find myself driving late over shap on the m6 with not only a deserted carriage way on my side, but the opposite side as well. while i don't stick to 70 in those circumstances, i certainly don't red line it. i think it's fair that you drive according to the conditions.

and drivers should be aware at all times, looking for hazards etc. expect the unexpected...


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Kell said:


> just heard this on the 'proper' news. 159 in a 70 is bad, but 84 in a 30 is just ridiculous.


Hear, hear. Speedin on the clear motorway is one thing, illegal but generally the safest (relative term) place to do it if 'duty calls.'

84mph in a 30mph, presuming it is a built up area, is just plain reckless and inexcusable, no matter what the training and skill levels involved. At that speed ther is zero margin of safety and a massive risk to public safety no matter what time of day. The majority of accidents happen in built up areas at <30mph.

I mean what if I had been driving back from a lock-in at my local, half-cut, pootling along at 25mph, when Gungadin in his hot Vectra understeers out of nowhere at a +60mph speed delta? :wink:


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

If this is being judged on a professional basis and he is considered the creme de la creme, and it's ok for him to practice on public roads, then by the same logic it's ok for me and my mates to practice shooting in the streets, after all, that's where most fighting gets done.
There is no argument here I'm afraid, he broke the law and he should be setting an example. If there was any doubt about his ability and the performance of the car, then it should be tested in a sterile environment He could NEVER legislate for a milk float popping out of a side road or a cow which has got out of it's field, there are just too many variables.


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## Scott2k21 (Nov 11, 2004)

Kell said:


> Or perhaps your top speed should be goverened by your driving test results. If you get 100%, then you're allowed to go 100% of your car's speed, whereas those that got 50% can only go 70mph. :roll:


so what about a person who passes with flying colours and drives a korean piece of tat that maxes out at 70mph  :roll: :wink:

.....anyway back on flame.....its not the first ocifer to be let off and probably wont be the last unfortunately :x


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

Who was responsble for the vehicle? The officer concerned.
Was the speed it was going illegal on UK roads? Yes.
Had these speeds previously been authorised on this occasion by a competant authority? No.
Would I have been banned for doing the same speed? Yes.
The guy was just flooring it for the fun of it with no respect for the public or his own safety. If the CPS and his colleagues thought it should go to court, how did he get away with it?


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## fastasflip (May 13, 2003)

So judging by most of the posts on here I can only assume that most are against police speeding full stop. Or is it different if they are racing to a car on it's roof with the driver trapped who is just about to fry?

Plod would still be driving to the same standard as he was in the incident reported. Possibly putting innocent lives at risk.

If he was off duty using his own vehcile,throw the book at him as contrary to popular belief often does. Last year plod on own bike 125mph on the M56, do not pass go, do not collect Â£200 go straight to jail, no job no pension, thanks for coming

On duty, can't see a problem


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

fastasflip said:


> So judging by most of the posts on here I can only assume that most are against police speeding full stop. Or is it different if they are racing to a car on it's roof with the driver trapped who is just about to fry?
> 
> Plod would still be driving to the same standard as he was in the incident reported. Possibly putting innocent lives at risk.
> 
> ...


The police don't attend road accidents at 159mph in an unmarked car.


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## fastasflip (May 13, 2003)

Don't they?


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

fastasflip said:


> Don't they?


No.


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## colshieboy (May 23, 2005)

For the record...the only time you can travel at high speed in a non emergency situation is whilst doing your advanced driving course or possibly "familiarisation" as in this case but I don't know the full details.

I'm not an advanced police driver but as a TT owner and a motorcyclist, IF I err and get caught, I'll just have to take my medicine like everyone else. For the wider public's information, if you are caught speeding on duty in Scotland, you have to justify it or face 3 points and a fine. It makes you wonder if it's worth the potential hassle of trying to get to someone quickly when you could face penalties and an increase in your private car insurance. Health and Safety, European Directives and everything else....the world's going mad. I've been in the police for nearly 28 years and I was asked to go on a 4 hour course on "Manual Handling"....no not prisoners under arrest, how to pick up a box without doing my back in.......PS If you get done for any offence off duty you also face a potential misconduct hearing with another fine, reprimand or reduction in rank. Drink Driving results in dismissal and an appeal will fail. Give the guy a break.....a 70mph speed limit on a motorway in the middle of the night is nonsense. As for the H&S spokesman!!!!!....100mph is dangerous...what crap!!


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

LakesTTer said:


> He could NEVER legislate for a milk float popping out of a side road or a cow which has got out of it's field


Bit of a milk obsession there LakesTTer?

mmmmm Bitty :wink:


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## stgeorgex997 (Feb 25, 2004)

jampott said:


> fastasflip said:
> 
> 
> > Don't they?
> ...


They can, nothing to stop them, Tim


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

Carlos said:


> LakesTTer said:
> 
> 
> > He could NEVER legislate for a milk float popping out of a side road or a cow which has got out of it's field
> ...


 :lol: :lol: I like milk but it's got to be chilled, not warm with nipple hair.


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## TTotal (Aug 12, 2002)

Off topic methinks !


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## LakesTTer (Jan 19, 2005)

Sorry, but I didn't lead it in this direction. Coppers speeding.........................................tch, what can you do??


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