# Porsche (997) C2S or C4S?????????



## jog (Oct 13, 2003)

I am thinking about buying / leasing a new 911 (997) through my business. 
Firstly I am swayed towards the "S" version but I cant decide on the 2 or 4 wheel drive variant. What are the pros and cons to either model? I think I prefer the C4S but the C2S is suposed to be more of a "drivers" car.

Secondly, spec levels. Are there must haves which should be included within any C2S / C4S purchase. I want Sat Nav, bluetooth and park assist, but what else should go on my list?

Thirdly, I have never leased a car before. I will be signing up to at least two years and 15k miles pa. What are the pros and cons to leasing. Are there any pit falls or particular problems to look out for.

Help and advise on the above appreciated. Merry Xmas.

PS - at the moment I dont plan on getting rid of the RS4, but it may mean the wife gets to drive it more often :roll: 8)


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## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

I know nothing about your query Mark, but....you lucky b*&^Â£!d :roll: :wink: :lol:

Happy Christmas mate - have a good one


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

If you're used to the security of 4 wheel drive, you'll want to go for the C4. I like the looks of the S over the standard model too. In terms of leasing, have a good look - there are loads of companies offering differing terms. Find out what the penalties are for early termination or going over the mileage limits - they can be punative! Enjoy!!!


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## jog (Oct 13, 2003)

NaughTTy said:


> I know nothing about your query Mark, but....you lucky b*&^Â£!d :roll: :wink: :lol:
> 
> Happy Christmas mate - have a good one


Cheers Paul, not 100% but fingers crossed.

Merry Christmas to you and yours too.


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## jog (Oct 13, 2003)

BreTT said:


> If you're used to the security of 4 wheel drive, you'll want to go for the C4. I like the looks of the S over the standard model too. In terms of leasing, have a good look - there are loads of companies offering differing terms. Find out what the penalties are for early termination or going over the mileage limits - they can be punative! Enjoy!!!


Thanks Brett. I have started to look around but not finalised anything yet. The terms of those that I have made enquiries with do vary a bit.
Cheers


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Does this mean your signatures gonna take up two pages instead of one? :?

I'd go for the C2 for what it's worth. I'm assumming you're buying it for fun although I do prefer the S look.


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## jog (Oct 13, 2003)

scoTTy said:


> Does this mean your signatures gonna take up two pages instead of one? :?
> quote]
> 
> A review of my sig is a little overdue I think :wink:


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

Mark,

I can of course assist a little as I've done the same research. (Might be a bit biased though)

You "must" get the "S" in either C2 or C4 guise (but you've already stated that)

Pro's of the C2S when compared to the C4S.

1. It is a better drivers car, there is a reason why this is stated so often and that's because it's true. It feels more involved, responsive, it feels more dynamic also. It is totally different to drive to that of the 4 wheel drive derivative. You really feel like you're driving the car which means you are completely aware of what you're doing and what's happening around you. The 4S feels sedate in comparison. The speed creeps up without you knowing it and although there isn't much difference in performance, strangely you feel the difference due to the dynamics of the car.

2. It's lighter and therefore quicker/faster (only Marginally)

3. It's more cost effective. (List Price is Cheaper)

4. The 2S seems to be a better car when considering re-sale, but it depends what you want really.

5. Cheaper to maintain. Servicing costs etc..

Con's

1. It's narrower.  The C4S looks mint with the extra width at the hips.

2. It's not as good in the wet. This might be right but you really have to be pushing the cars to really notice. There's a Topgear clip where JC states that the C2S is so good and has so much grip they're not even going to make a 4 wheel drive version (albeit he was wrong...again)

And that's about it. They're both great cars.

Spec.

Definite's...

Manual (not Spaztronic )
Metallic Paint. (Get the clear Bra fitted also)
Leather interior
Heated Sports Seats (if I was choosing again I might be tempted to go for the adaptive sports seats this time) DO NOT go comfort leather, or fluffy leather as I like to call it...
Sat Nav (in Glass's guide the resale values include sat nav as standard)
Park assist
Sport Chrono Package Plus (some don't like this but I like the extra functionality)
Sports exhaust system (Did a little sound clip comparing the standard against the Sports exhaust http://www.zen89393.zen.co.uk/Archive/Images/pse.wmv) You get proper chrome dual tips with the PSE also.
Porsche crest embossed on head restraints (looks class)
Possibly TPMS. (Tyre Pressure Monitoring System) I didn't get this but would also consider this next time.


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

C2S lively and a real drivers car. C4S lardy and slow in comparison...4WD adds extra weight and saps power. Front luggage space compromised due to extra drive system to front wheels. I wouldn't say no tho'!

Sports exhaust worthy of consideration, adds a fabulous snarl - worth every penny.

C2S/4S has the nicest rear end on the road - simply gorgeous 










Dave


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

Jac-in-a-Box said:


> C2S lively and a real drivers car. C4S lardy and slow in comparison...4WD adds extra weight and saps power. Front luggage space compromised due to extra drive system to front wheels. I wouldn't say no tho'!
> 
> Sports exhaust worthy of consideration, adds a fabulous snarl - worth every penny.
> 
> ...


Aye up Dave....Ordered one.  Roll on August 2008.


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## Dr_Parmar (May 10, 2002)

Mark, I agree with everything ResB said, I would also add a few points..

1. If you are thinking of getting the in-built telephone... I have it and its not that good, over about 40mph people cant hear you very well. Porsche know of the problem and are "apparently" looking for a solution. It takes a SIM as normal but its apain taking the sim out of your mobile and sticking it in the car, i have a pay as u go sim for the car which i generally use when im making short journeys. U can ge text messages too, but beware, your passenger can also read them on the screen!

2. BOSE i think this is a must now for all porsche's isnt it?

3. CD changer, still 6 disc, as far as i know doesnt read mp3's although the single slot cd player in the dash reads MP3s on the newer 997's

4. TPMS.. i dont think is worth it.

5. Adaptive sports seats are superb!

6. Sunroof, i never went for one and i do kinda regret it, guess its down to personal taste!

7. Steering wheel, multifunction steering wheel, really useful and perhaps safer as well? You can also get it in carbon and aluminium.

As for the C2s vs the C4s.. i've driven both, and i hardly noticed a difference. Yes the latter has 4 wheel drive but the C2 is such a well balanced car anyway i dont really see many scenarios where the extra drive would be of any substantial benefit assuming during normal safe driving. Id use the money saved, go fo a C2 and pile on some more extras!


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Sat Nav is standard on 997's isn't it?


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## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

ResB said:


> Jac-in-a-Box said:
> 
> 
> > C2S lively and a real drivers car. C4S lardy and slow in comparison...4WD adds extra weight and saps power. Front luggage space compromised due to extra drive system to front wheels. I wouldn't say no tho'!
> ...


And about time too Rich! :wink: Pleased for you - and more than a little green with envy 

Dave


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

Widget said:


> Sat Nav is standard on 997's isn't it?


Wasn't when I bought mine. :?


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## V6 TT (Sep 24, 2002)

ResB said:


> Widget said:
> 
> 
> > Sat Nav is standard on 997's isn't it?
> ...


...is now.

As far as BOSE goes, had it in my CaymanS and it was good but found it difficult to jusitify for Â£900!! Then i heard the Â£300 option of the 10 speaker sound upgrade which comes standard in the 'S'...perfect compromise and would never spec the BOSE for that sort of money again, simply not worth it once the sports exhaust is switched on! ;O) Oh yeh, BOSE reduces the rear luggage space behind the seats by half also by raising the rear shelf by 50%.

It was said that Porsche wasn't even going to bother with a C4S on the 997 platform as the C2S just had so much mechanical grip...think they final introduced it to fleece novice wealthy sorts (my boss included!) who just pick it because it costs more than the C2S so it must be better...if you really want to screw it all up put an out dated auto in it.

Don't have any issues with my phone either.

Spec sport seats, no point having the adaptive day to day for the extreme costs.

D

Merry Xmas!


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

V6 TT said:


> ResB said:
> 
> 
> > Widget said:
> ...


Just checked this out. As far as I can see it's not standard. The only option you can select is Sat Nav with Extended module @ Â£1,200 odd squid...

Either way, make sure you get it.


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

> Extended navigation module enabling automatic route recording with reverse route navigation as well as compass/GPS navigation in regions not covered by DVD. Note: Must be in combination with Navigation module from PCM (Equipment code 670)


The extended navigation is an add on to the standard navigation module which is standard.


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## ACE_UK (Apr 10, 2005)

I went for the C2s seemed more agile and not as much cabin noise compared to the 4wd

Although I do love the wider back end on the 4s its gorgeous


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## Sussex_Paul (Aug 1, 2007)

997 C2S - Best car I ever had (until my current one).
Comes standard with PASM above the standard Carrera (at least it did when I had one), and there is DEFINATELY a difference in grunt between the 3.6 and the 3.8 in the S.
Make sure (if it's your cash and not on a lease) that it's in a good colour with a decent spec and you'll have no problem come resale time. Yellow should be reserved for GT3's IMO!!!
I would not recommend Tiptronic-S myself, it's a personal thing, but I never thought it was anything other than an auto box first and foremost. It's certainly not a patch on current DSG type auto's or even the R-Tronic on mine.
I'd also recommend the Sport Chrono Pack (good value too) for the "Sport" button that IMO sharpens things up when you fancy it.
Sport seats are good too, and look better than the standard seats IMO and the Multi-CD is handy.
Other options such as PCCB cost a lot, and I never had a problem with the standard S items.
It really is a great car the 997 and I've come over all envious just thinking of being in your position again!!!!
Hope this helps. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] 
Cheers. 
Paul.


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

Widget said:


> > Extended navigation module enabling automatic route recording with reverse route navigation as well as compass/GPS navigation in regions not covered by DVD. Note: Must be in combination with Navigation module from PCM (Equipment code 670)
> 
> 
> The extended navigation is an add on to the standard navigation module which is standard.


Well I'm sure it used to be an extra Â£300 or 400 quid for the extended module when I ordered mine which was in addition to the Â£1,200 for the standard Sat Nav. The price is now Â£1,200 for the extended, so I think you cannot spec the two independently, it certainly doesn't say that Sat Nav is included in the standard spec when you use the configurator.


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

ResB said:


> Widget said:
> 
> 
> > > Extended navigation module enabling automatic route recording with reverse route navigation as well as compass/GPS navigation in regions not covered by DVD. Note: Must be in combination with Navigation module from PCM (Equipment code 670)
> ...


PCM is standard ie. a colour screen, but you need to specify "...optional CD autochanger, navigation and telephone modules..." so I don't really see the point of it. A good 911 costs more than I thought, I had a play on the configurator and needed to spend about Â£10k on options.

Why does the C4S have wider arches - I know they're to cover the wider track, but do they widen it deliberately, or something to do with the hardware?


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

Thought it was strange that it's now included. I just spec'd the exact same car as mine and it's over Â£3k more expensive (Â£1k of that is the tracker, which is standard but not spe'd on mine)...

It is to accommodate the wider track, to compensate for the 4WD system, just like the Turbo. The C2S and GT3 for instance have the same width.


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## Mayur (Jan 29, 2004)

jog, the debate between the C2S (def recommend the S) vs the C4S has been beaten to death by the likes of me for many a moon. I've come to the conclusion that it really depends on the type of drive you like... the C2S is very much seat of the pants driving especially if you like throwing the back end out etc... for me, white knuckle driving does not float my boat and I love the sure-footedness of the C4S.

The roads around my home in TN are ideal for the C4S. I also drive a fair bit in North Carolina and especially on the Tail of the Dragon (318 bends in 12 miles of gorgeous road). Thats where the difference between the two cars became apparent for me. A couple of months ago a friend with his 2S joined me in my 4S for a couple of days of spirited driving in the Smokies. On severe twisties the 4S felt like it was on rails whilst the 2S was more often than not struggling for grip and the back end would give a bit too easily. Sure in part it may have been a driver related issue but whilst I was happy and quite relaxed driving at speed, my friend was working hard to keep up and trying not to fall off the road! BTW, on slippery and wet roads there is a huge difference between the traction on both cars.

You may be aware that the 4 wheel drive system on the 4S is such that it is primarily driving the rear wheels and the ratio's change when more traction is needed. It's also worth bearing in mind that the 4S has a slightly more enhanced braking system.

As you may by now gather I am biased towards the 4S... it's simply because I love the extra traction and safety as well as how it drives and looks. I'm not a Walter Rohrl and IMO the 4S has saved my neck a couple of times already.

You'll love either car you get... enjoy!

Some pics...


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

Not much more to add, but I'd definitely go for the sports seats if you can. I only spec'd the standard seats and they did give me back ache over a long journey.

Don't be afraid of the C2S - the handling is fantastic and I never in 22k miles wished I had opted for 4 wheel drive (although it wasn't available when I ordered mine).

Multi function steering wheel is great, cruise control is useful for those motorway average speed cameras, heated seats fantastic. I never used the telephone module (too fiddly to get the sim card out and people could never hear me anyway), and although I liked the sports chrono, if I'm honest, I never used it. I did go for Bose - expensive, but when I sold mine, it seemed to be one of those "must have" options.

I think Porsche are (or already have done so?) about to release a long overdue ipod connector for the stereo. I think it's available as a retrofit item.

Lastly, you should be aware that there is a face lift coming up very soon. I saw a face lifted version when I was on holiday earlier in the month in Austria - it's not massively different but should probably impact your decision if you're buying new.


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## Dr_Parmar (May 10, 2002)

Sat Nav isnt standard, its a Â£1200 ish option.

A pdf of the price list is here...

http://www.porsche.com/all/media/pdf/pricelist_911_my08_pcgb.pdf
Facelift is rumoured to come out next year in keeping wih the 3 year cycle which porsche adopts? (Just what i heard on rennteam)

I went on the configurator and spec'd a Targe 4S with all the extras i would like, came to over Â£85K


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## jog (Oct 13, 2003)

WOW Guys, so much info, thanks very much. I was so supprised to receive so much feed back.
The only reasons I want the C4S is the wider rear which I love and the 4x4 system to which I have become accustomed. I need to balance this with a compromise of the extras that I could spec on the cheaper C2S.
I need to be slightly more conservative with the color choice too. No more bright blue or red (i love red cars). The white looks amazing IMO :wink: .

Thanks

Mark


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## blagman (Sep 11, 2006)

You Mint want to hang on a minute as the 998 is due in the UK in June with revised Di engine which will have a little more power but the killer will be sub 250 particulates per whatever :lol: co2 emmisions droping it below the Â£400 a year RFL tax bracket plus new front and rear lights ect. Over night it will hit 997 residuals quiet hard.

John


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

ResB said:


> ...It is to accommodate the wider track, to compensate for the 4WD system, just like the Turbo. The C2S and GT3 for instance have the same width.


Cheers  So have you order a GT3 now 8)

Hmm some facelift info seems to date back to July though, nice vid

blagman - sounds interesting, will they definitely call it 998 though, is it different enough to warrant a new designation? If he's doing a business lease might get a really good deal on an outgoing model too.


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## blagman (Sep 11, 2006)

Yep 998,997,996, should get the to do a small deal on a 997  my local dealer already has 6 months of pre orders for the 998


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

blagman said:


> ...my local dealer already has 6 months of pre orders for the 998


Wow, life is good for Porsche dealers eh?


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

All are fab cars and will thrill and deliver.

When you have specced up your 997 c4s, go drive and then spec up a GT3. Then come back and tell us you still wnat that C4S, :wink:

No bad choices though.


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

Wondermikie said:


> ResB said:
> 
> 
> > ...It is to accommodate the wider track, to compensate for the 4WD system, just like the Turbo. The C2S and GT3 for instance have the same width.
> ...


Yup. Well, my names 1st on the list at my local OPC. No official order as yet as the spec is unknown. August '08 delivery apparently.


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

Nice - is it a cancelled order then, or they specced it themselves? What colour - white?


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

Sorry Jog, Hijacking your thread like this. 



Wondermikie said:


> Nice - is it a cancelled order then, or they specced it themselves? What colour - white?


No, it's the speculated and much talked about MKII GT3 with the DFI engine with a little more horsepower (435BHP), perhaps a few minor changes to the bodywork in line with Porsche's 3 yr cycle. The car itself has not been announced officially by Porsche but it's "highly" likely to happen. There is nothing to order at the moment as the specs of the car are unknown at this stage. However, as soon as the dealers know more I'm sure they will be asking for my deposit.


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

ResB said:


> Sorry Jog, Hijacking your thread like this.


Yep sorry 



ResB said:


> No, it's the speculated and much talked about MKII GT3 with the DFI engine with a little more horsepower (435BHP)


435  sounds awesome, no doubt the car will too [smiley=sweetheart.gif]


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## jog (Oct 13, 2003)

Wondermikie said:


> ResB said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry Jog, Hijacking your thread like this.


Yep sorry 

quote]
No probs


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

http://axisofoversteer.blogspot.com/2007/11/die-luddites-die-997-mkii-with-dsg.html

<<....And it only gets better if you can wait, September will see the rollout of the new Turbo and, most juicy, a GT3 mkII. 
The Turbo...we don't care, but the GT3 will have a 7 speed DSG transmission and a 435hp 3.6L Direct injection, dry sump engine. If you missed your chance to buy a 997 GT3 the first time around, here is your chance to get your deposit in.>>


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

garyc said:


> http://axisofoversteer.blogspot.com/2007/11/die-luddites-die-997-mkii-with-dsg.html
> 
> <<....And it only gets better if you can wait, September will see the rollout of the new Turbo and, most juicy, a GT3 mkII.
> The Turbo...we don't care, but the GT3 will have a 7 speed DSG transmission and a 435hp 3.6L Direct injection, dry sump engine. If you missed your chance to buy a 997 GT3 the first time around, here is your chance to get your deposit in.>>


Yeah, big dilemma. Manual or PDK (DSG for you Audi nuts)...I'm sort of swayed towards the manual as PDK is probably an extra and will cost 10 squillion quid.. :?


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