# Heart said TT, Head decided on new A3!



## Calibos (Mar 28, 2004)

Well I've decided against a TT. The head won out over the heart after seeing both the new a3 and TT in the dealers today.

I'll be trading in my old '98 1.6 a3 sport for either a 2.0FSI or 2.0TDI with the following

Ambition(sport)
Cream leather
Brilliant black
Sunroof+ESP
Armrest
Parabolas 17in

Which engine should I go for though? I had a short test drive in the 2.0TDI and by faysus it has some kick. How does it compare to the 2.0FSI keeping in mind that I've only ever had petrols and my 1.6 is the biggest engined car I've driven up till now. Can someone explain all this low range torque malarky etc and how it compares to the torque and aceeleration of a FSI etc. I know it wont feel or sound as smooth as a petrol. I only do about 4000(mostly urban) miles a year so assuming I keep the car 5 years for the life of the finance, I wont save on fuel, the premium I pay for the engine. The dealer said residuals were much better on the 2.0 TDI over the 2.0 FSI. I mean if I get 2 grand more come trade in its worth the coarser engine but if where only talking making at most 1000 extra come trade in, but I sacrafice performance and smoothness, then I'd prefer the cheaper FSI.

I see all bar 1 here have gone for the TDI but are all you lot motorway long distance commuters in which case a TDI makes perfect sense???


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

I think the bottom line is whether you like to rev engines to get the most out of them.

Performance of the petrol and diesel are very similar overall. Where the TDI wins out is the low end torque, as you mention.

Bhp is a product of torque and revs. I can't remember the conversion factor, but essentially multiplying torque with the revs at which this is provided gives you bhp.

As a diesel engine has more torque earlier in the rev range, it provides more power than the FSI sooner - if you drew a graph, the TDI will look for like Table Top mountain than a ski jump runway. However, where a petrol engine revs to in excess of 6500 rpm, the diesel only goes to about 4500rpm. This means you have to change up earlier, losing that advantage over the petrol because of the higher gearing - power at the wheels is reduced.

That's why, from a standing start, there will be hardly anything in it between the petrol and the diesel.

Where the diesel performs better is in in-gear acceration - i.e. real world driving. Although acceleration isn't that different from a petrol engine if each car is in the right gear and revs for that engine, the diesel will perform better as you do not have to waste time changing gear (both down and then up) as you get the same pick up using a much higher gear in the TDI. Essentially, if you used the TDI to it's full potential everytime, you could probably make do with gears 2,4 and 6 because of this.

Therefore, the diesel wins out in economy, because the same power is being provided at lower revs; and flexibility, because you do not need to change down as often to get good acceleration.

In terms of noise, the FSI is much much quiter when idling and driving at lower revs around town. But it does get quite a bit noisier at motorway speeds where 6th is not quite as tall as for the TDI, so then things are more even.

I think the TDI sounds fantastic when revved, and does sound more like a sports petrol than a diesel. Even at idle, rather than noisy, it just sounds very strong and potent.

Even with only a couple of k a year, I would go for a TDI. Residuals will be much better - surprisingly, high mileage affects TDI residuals pretty badly. And you'll probably only need to fill the tank up every 6 weeks!


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## delarge (Nov 3, 2003)

i can't see there being that much diffrence between the two come trade in time compared to the difference between cost now .

I love my Tdi but my mileage is considerably higher than yours .

Go for the FSI , its just a touch quicker and a tad quieter .

D


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## Calibos (Mar 28, 2004)

Thanks guys. Typically around town I change up around 3000 anyway and on the motorway later but I suppose thats only cause I have to to get the most out of the 1.6. TDI does sound like the one for me. I think your right about the engine noise karsci! the 2.0tdi defo sounded different to my 1.6 petrol at idle and I actually did say to myself that it sounded muscley rather than annoying. The dealer said he sold a tdi a4 for a 3000+ premuim over the equivalent petrol he had. He said he had three or four guys very interested in the tdi but no-one for the other car. Petrol prices are creeping up in Ireland again so it looks like the tdi is the clever choice as well as it suiting my driving style better. While I love the feeling of torque and acceleration I'm less inclined to want to have to rev the car that high(which I would in a petrol, yes) to find it so the tdi with oodles of low down torque sounds like just the ticket.

Cheers guys, you've helped me make my mind up!


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## Calibos (Mar 28, 2004)

Ordered today!

Heres the Irish spec Including my extras....I wonder how it differs from UK spec??

2.0 TDI

Standard:

ABS braking
Active front head restraints
Adjustable safety steering column
AUDI concert stereo & CD player 8 speakers, 140watt output
Bag Hook is luggage compartment
Body coloured door handles & bumpers
Easy Entry front seats
Electric door mirrors
Electric windows with comfort operation
Electronic brake distribution (EBD)
Emergency brake assist
First aid kit
Five 3-point seat belts
Five head restraints
Fully zinc galvanized body
Headlight adjustment
Heat insulating tinted glass
Height adjustable front seats
Remote central locking
Servotronic speed sensitive power steering
Side impact protection
Six airbags including Sideguard
Soft touch tailgate release
Space saver spare wheel
Split folding rear seat backrest
Tailored carpet mats
Traction control (ASR)
Transponder immobiliser
Two cup holders in center console
Warning triangle

Ambition(sport) specific extras:

17â€ Alloy wheels with 225/45 tyres
Decorative Inlays (highly polished)
Drivers Information System
Outside temperature display
Aluminium sill inserts
Front fog Lights
Matrix seat upholstery
Rear window sunscreen
Sports 3 spoke leather steering wheel *
Sports suspension
Sports seats

My extras:

Brilliant Black(not an extra per say but I saved â‚¬700 by getting my favourite colour!)
Sunroof & ESP package (don't ask my why esp comes with the sunroof pack!?!?...though I'm not complaining  )
17in Parabolas instead of the stander sport pack wheels
Two-Tone leather interior. Side and back bolsters are black and inside area of seat and back is charcoal grey. Doors and dash are black and charcoal grey two tone as well.

I'm not worried about cd changers because I'll probably get my Iriver 120 portable HDD player wired up.

OMG, I cannot wait 10 weeks!! I want it.......NOW!!!!


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## h5djr (Mar 7, 2004)

Hi Calibos

I know exactly how you feel. I ordered a new 2.0 TDI SE with a DSG gearbox and the quoted build week is week 24 - 7 June 2004. Seems ages away. The only comfort is that I already have an A3 1.8T Sport and I shall just have to keep driving that until June!

You'll appreciate it even more when you final get it.

Regards

Dave R


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## Calibos (Mar 28, 2004)

Hi Dave,

I was told mine should be week 21, keeping in mind though that I'm in the Rep. of Ireland which is probably a different queue?? I only ordered it yesterday! The Salesman was on the phone to someone trying to get the order in ahead of an Irish price increase or so he said (Bet he says that to every prospective customer!). I figured it was a ploy to get me to order straight away before I changed my mind. He needn't have worried, I was ordering as soon as I could anyway  He was definately talking to someone on the other end of the line  and he said he was owed favours from this guy! He wrote down week 21 on the documentation for me but as I was going also said delivery could/would?? be 10 weeks... but hopefully sooner. Week 21 would be mid May though if week 24 is 7th June?? Is an Irish build week the same calendar week as a UK build week I wonder?? I'll be tickled pink if I get it that quickly!!

Like you, I can take comfort in driving my current A3 till then. Its only a 1.6 Sport though. The dealer can't wait to get his hands on it. Its a '98 sport with armrest and sunroof in pearlescant blue with only 23000 miles on it. Mint except for two little trolley dents and a scratch on the bonnet from a roof tile blown off in the wind. He didn't believe me when I told him the mileage and said gimme the keys so I can see this for myself! He said it was a very very desirable car and he already has 4 or 5 people in mind who will be fighting over it. I was still expecting a higher trade in value though!! Maybe thats why he pushed the order up the queue. He said I should get the car at the same time as people who ordered late January! ie He wants to take my car of my hands as quickly as he can before the buyers he reckons he has for it go elsewhere. He took it for a test drive himself and when he got back he said he didn't realise the extra weight of the new model 1.6 made such a differance. "jaysus these old 1.6's have some poke compared to the new one". As I was leaving he told me to take good care of the car and that he couldn't wait to get his hands on it. He must smell the profit from it already. I suppose I could have sold it privately but tbh I didn't want the hassle! :roll: 

BTW did you test drive the 2.0 TDI?? How does it compare to the petrol 1.8T. That was 150hp wasn't it?? The biggest engined car I've had has been my current 1.6 A3 (Insurance up till now has been a joke). I only had a short test drive myself but even that clinched it for me when I was pushed back into my seat!!

Regards

Keith


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## h5djr (Mar 7, 2004)

Hi Keith

The build week is the same for both of us as it is the actual build week at the factory in Germany. I've have been told that mine may be earlier but at the moment I'm working on the worst case senario. There are also 3 weeks to add to the build week for delivery to the dealer.

Yes I have had a test drive in the 2.0 TDI both manual and DSG and also a 2.0 FSI. As both my existing 1.8T and the FSI have 150 bhp I thought the FSI would be close in performance but it's no where near. Its OK in top speed but acceleration through the gears was hopeless when compared to the 1.8T. It's the turbo that seems to make the difference and gives masses of low speed torque. The 30-50 mph and 50-70 mph figures according to road tests are very close been the TDI and the 1.8T and they felt very close in actual driving as well.

It was because the TDI felt so close to the 1.8T and the fact that it's available with the DSG gearbox that I decided on the TDI. It will be my 5th A3, all the others having been 1.8Ts and I have owned cars for the last 38 years and it will be my very first diesel.

I'm sure I will not be dissapointed - same performance, DSG and better fuel consumption. Let me know what you think of yours when you get it.

Regards

Dave R


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## Dangeroix (Feb 26, 2004)

Hiya Calibos!

Nice car, just interested - why didn't you opt for the Bose upgrade?

Also, those "Easy Entry front seats" should be renamed to "Difficult Entry \ Exit front seats" - They are the only poorly designed thing in the entire car! (IMHO)

David!


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## Calibos (Mar 28, 2004)

Hi David,

I didn't go for it because of conflicting opinions about it in the A3, the cost (â‚¬600 extra in Ireland) and the fact that I have Zero respect for their Home-Consumer products.

I added Pioneer headunit and 12 disc changer I already had (nearly 10yo at this stage) to my current A3 but never felt the need to upgrade or add to the standard speakers etc so I suppose 8 or 10 speakers as standard and the fairly decent concert II Headunit in the new A3 will be a great improvement over what I was used to anyway.

Tis funny that I never got into ICE in a big way seeing as its also 'boys toys' cause I've got a projector based Home-Cinema system at home. You'd think I'd be wanting subs and dvd,lcd headunits etc etc in the car too  

As for the seats, obviously I'll have to what till I get the car to judge the day to day practicality of them but I remember on the demo saying to myself, "oh thats nice, the backs tilt and the seat slides forward rather than the whole seat tilting upwards and the head rest scuffing the sun shade thingy." Was never an issue when I did the seat for somebody but if there was someone getting in or out the other side, the seat would invariably get heaved forward and almost go through the windscreen!!

Keith


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