# Valve cleaning FSI engines



## Yesj (Nov 12, 2014)

Anyone over here cleaned there valves? I've done it a couple weeks ago. The engine is much smoother when stationair. They recommend it after each 25.000 to 40.000 miles. I did it after 56.000miles.

I did the cleaning with a chemical. Over here costs are around €130 / 100GBP

Maybe make this a stickie?










In the above pictures you can see the carbon build up on the intake valves and intake port of a Seat Leon Cupra 2.0 TFSI 240 Stage 2 + with 72,000 miles. This carbon build up is up to 2mm thick in places and is a common problem for modern direct injection engines and stems from the crank case ventilation system redirecting oil vapours through the inlet manifold to be burnt up. Previous engines with port or inlet injection (such as the 1.8T 20V) did not suffer with this problem as fuel was mixed with the air prior to flowing over the intake valves and therefore the fuel washed any carbon deposits away. As ever, vehicle manufacturers are trying to increase efficeincy and are choosing direct injection (where fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber) over port injection for their engines. All of the Volkswagen / Audi / Seat / Skoda FSI or TSI engines are direct injection and suffer from carbon build up. In the picture below you can also see how direct injection works and the fuel spray from the injector completely misses the intake valve.

*How are the valves and ports cleaned?*

The process of cleaning the ports and valves is fairly straight forward, yet great care needs to be taken not to cause any further damage to the head of the engine or the valves themselves. The valves and ports are cleaned with various chemicals and then media blasted. We require the car for 1 full day to strip down the intake and clean the valves and ports on a 2.0 TFSI engine. All gaskets are also replaced as they are single use only.

*
How do I know if my valves need cleaning and what difference will it make?*

Carbon build up is a natural occurance on direct injection engines and there is pretty much no way of stopping it. Sophisticated catch cans and alternative oils are said to help prevent the build up but will not stop it completely. Generally speaking an engine with only 20,000 miles on the clock will have a sufficient build up of carbon, so we recommend having your intake valves checked at these intervals. Constant misfires, lack of responsiveness and poor fuel economy can also be related and cured by having this service carried out. If you leave the carbon to build up then these problems can only worsen and possibly cause major damage if a sizable carbon pellet falls into the cylinder.

Once the service is complete your engine will feel more responsive, smoother and more powerful. A cleaner intake port will reduce turbulent air flow and therefore your engine can make more power with less effort. It is ideal to combine carbon cleaning with a More-BHP remap to further increase results. On the dyno graph below you can see the improvements in engine performance:










Even though, peak power is exactly the same, there are surprisingly large increases in torque between 1,500 and 5,000 RPM. Peak torque has increased by 31NM and there are increases of up to 40NM at 2,500 RPM. The increases can also be felt on the road as the car pulls a lot harder before the main turbo surge and is less jerky to drive at very low speeds around town. Remember, this is a car with 72,000 miles on the clock, if your car has done a higher mileage and has never had the valves cleaned before, you may see bigger increases than this.

Audi 4.2 FSI V8 RS4 carbon valve cleaning

One of the most affected engines is the 4.2 FSI V8 found in the Audi RS4. Reports have circulated that owners have been loosing up to 30BHP alone just from a build up of carbon on the intake valves and ports! For a dedicated performance vehicle this is a serious problem that Audi are failing to address. We have now completed a full carbon clean of the intake valves on our very own Audi RS4 B7 4.2FSI V8.

*source*: http://www.more-bhp.com/20tfsi_42fsi_rs ... aning.html


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

would this be an issue for the 2.5tfsi after a while also?


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## Yesj (Nov 12, 2014)

Never googled it. But it's direct injected right?

Father of a mate has the new S1. He said the new 2.0TFSI engine in the S1 has extra little injectors above the valves, so the gasoline keeps it clean.
I dont think the 2.5 has those. But lets do some research


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

powerplay said:


> would this be an issue for the 2.5tfsi after a while also?


Probably as it's direct injection only.

VAG seem to be moving to direct and indirect (port) injection engines like the 1.8 and the newer version of the E888 engine in the S3, Mk3 TTS etc. 
On those engines the indirect injection system only comes into play under part load conditions when the aim is to reduce consumption and emissions. Since the direct injection part of the system is always operational it's not clear whether or not any significant reduction in carbon build up on the valves would result.


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## Gas TT (Feb 21, 2014)

I have an 8 month old TFSI TT, having heard various concerns of carbon build up I was toying with the idea of using expensive fuel like Shell Nitro plus to help with this.

However after reading this, am I right in thinking that it would be pointless as far as my engine is concerned as the problem is the fact that no fuel goes over the inlet valves so the quality of fuel used will have no impact on this issue?


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## Gas TT (Feb 21, 2014)

.......meant to say mine's a 1.8 - not sure if that makes it inherently better or worse than the 2.0?

All device welcome - thanks


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## Yesj (Nov 12, 2014)

Indeed.
Just clean it between each 25K to 40K miles


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## Warranty_Void (Aug 12, 2014)

Where did you have it done and how much did it cost?


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## Gas TT (Feb 21, 2014)

As this appears to such a prevalent problem caused by the inherent design, it begs the question why Audi don't schedule a top end clean every couple of years as a standard service item or as a minimum an "extra service item" like the change of brake fluid or cam belts etc?

Incidentally this seems quite industry wide - a work colleague bought a used Pug RCZ with under 20k on the clock and he has just had to have the head removed etc due to carbon build up - fortunately it was covered by warranty but car was off the road for 4 weeks!

This strikes me as yet another item to add to the long list where "progress" has hit the driver both in terms of reliability and cost.

Others which spring to mind are:

DPF
DMF
Cam belts
multiplexed wiring buses etc


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## Yesj (Nov 12, 2014)

Warranty_Void said:


> Where did you have it done and how much did it cost?


I did in in my home town in the Netherlands. Over here there much more garage's who clean fsi engines. 
Did it at tuningparts.nl for €130. 100BGP

Some shops over here:

- Hans Sloot (lochem)
- Vagtechniek (Nuenen)
- Garage Out (Amstelveen?)
- Celtemp (Ridderkerk)
- Tuningparts (zoetermeer)
- xtmotorsport (poeldijk)


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## Ben5029 (Sep 26, 2014)

R56 Mini Cooper S owner s have been having the same problem for a while now and they tend to favour a process called a walnut shell decoke. Had it done on my Cooper S last year and have to say it made a real difference to running/performance.


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## Templar (Mar 9, 2012)

Gas TT said:


> I have an 8 month old TFSI TT, having heard various concerns of carbon build up I was toying with the idea of using expensive fuel like Shell Nitro plus to help with this.
> 
> However after reading this, am I right in thinking that it would be pointless as far as my engine is concerned as the problem is the fact that no fuel goes over the inlet valves so the quality of fuel used will have no impact on this issue?


As mentioned earlier it's the recirculated oil vapours that is sticking to the inlet valves on entry to the cylinder. As no fuel vapours pass over the inlet valves and is directly injected into the cylinder (TFSI in our case) the results are as above.
Plenty of reason to justify using the recommended oil at each service and preferably earlier than specified. The extended service intervals can be bad for your engine if you do not regularly drive lots of miles.
It has been suggested before now that if you drive lots of short journeys or light footed on the throttle then a weekly run where you keep the revs over 3k for a min of 15 mins will promote self cleaning.
Will see if I can dig this info back out again.


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## Templar (Mar 9, 2012)

Similar to the OP , here is the original article on carbon build up. Towards the end it describes the self clean mode. Quite an interesting read.

http://www.torquecars.co.uk/audi/2-0-tfsi-tuning


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## Stolberg (Oct 4, 2013)

Is there a 'how to' anywhere on this forum..? It would be great if you could DIY.


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## Yesj (Nov 12, 2014)

Stolberg said:


> Is there a 'how to' anywhere on this forum..? It would be great if you could DIY.


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## noTTyet (Feb 20, 2014)

What about the BG products service system for cleaning the carbon deposits?


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## Billybobbooth (Jul 5, 2017)

I know this is an old thread but as i work for bmw and have acsess to free walnut blaster and safe on bmws (would well recomend it, as well as having the inlet manifold cleaned or replaced especially on diesels.) Im doing all the service work on my car and tempted as i have a free weekend doing my car but is there any reason why you cant walnut blast an audi engine?
Fairly safe and easy if you know what your doing and as long as all the valves shut after if there is any in the cylinders or intake it just burns off.


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## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

I think you can perfectly walnut blast the carbon off, provided you take before and after pictures and post them here


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## SCW (Jun 22, 2017)

Yep, plenty of people on TFSI tuning Facebook section have done this and generally seems to have good results.

It's something I plan to do when mine gets a bit older and a few more miles on it, so let us all know how it goes.


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