# uprated side mount intercoolers some figs and pics



## alun (Aug 2, 2010)

i decided to upgrade my intercoolers and rather than the normal large front mount that everyone goes for, i wanted to keep the side mounts , so i took the plunge and bought some of the ebay uprated side mounts, there cheap so i wasn't expecting much,
on first inspection, they look good, the welds are good and there about an inch fatter than the standard ones, internally the core has wider gaps running through it.

fitting was basically ...

remove front bumper
remove front lights
remove ic shrouds
left ic has two 10 mm bolts holding the top on and one on the bottom
right ic is pretty much the same but the bolts are in different places
remove boost hoses
both ic's drop out the bottom with a bit of wiggling.

and then the fun starts..
being larger the new ic's are a bit of a tight fit to get back in and a lot more wiggling is needed, they do fit though, the brackets on the left ic was very off so needs bending. and the brackets on the right ic needs 2 new screws as the original ones don't fit the new ic.
refit everything and its done.

the old versus the new....



and the thickness....



i ran some measuring blocks before and after fitting (same day, roughly same temp, same road etc etc)... mainly looking at coolant temps, intake temps, boost and gs. did a few hard pulls and a bit of tickover at the lights.

the results... top graph is engine coolant temps, bottom graph is intake temps. light blue original ic. dark blue is new ic.



I'm fairly happy with that.


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## anthony_839 (Apr 9, 2013)

nice logging, i was looking at getting some of these instead of fmic 
do you know what the increased power out put is likely to be?


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

Thats a nice upgrade, thanks for sharing


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## Converted2VW (Feb 13, 2011)

Thanks for sharing. IC is definitely a nice upgrade. Decreased heat soak makes for nice constant engine power

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 1781cc (Jan 25, 2015)

linky linky to the seller please?


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## anthony_839 (Apr 9, 2013)

found them for £150

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-TT-1-8T- ... 51c058882a


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## infidel.uk (Feb 21, 2015)

how many £'s per horse then ?

id love to see just how much gain a car might achieve by replacing old for new with these . :?

b.t.w the welding looks ghastly in places!


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## ian222 (May 4, 2007)

Don't think you will find they add anything only keep everything running better on hot days especially. Even a fmic doesn't add much if anything but does a better job at keeping things cooler.


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## fatal8446 (Aug 15, 2013)

Just ordered a set of these along with a host of other goodies, pics will follow. Good to see they make a difference.


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## matzo (Oct 1, 2014)

Interested in this as can't see why people block their main rad with a fmic tbh...could it be that these only show an improvement over std as the original were old and not performing as they should ?


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

matzo said:


> Interested in this as can't see why people block their main rad with a fmic tbh...could it be that these only show an improvement over std as the original were old and not performing as they should ?


One of the 3 main factors with any kind of air-to-air heat exchangers is surface area (all else being equal). Although a more efficient way to go about it, side-mounted intercoolers are limited by their physical locations. You can only go so much bigger over the standard ones due to the lack of space on the side of the bumper. Once that real estate limitation is reached, the only way to achieve more surface area (which translates into more charge cooling coefficient) is to go in the front where finding space for a larger physical core is much easier.

So, SMICs are great since they don't affect the cooling efficiency of the radiator by blocking airflow to it (airflow being another of 3 main factors in efficiency of air-to-air heat exchangers). However, if for some reason their efficiency is exceeded and they can no longer offer acceptable delta T for the conditions, a FMIC becomes the only logical way to get an improvement (although a compromise that effects coolant temperature).

I am a big proponent of not blocking the radiator, way too often you see people that don't have the thermal need for a FMIC go this route just to be "cool". In my opinion, the coolant system in the TT is not very efficient and hurting it with considerably reducing airflow to the radiator is just as bad as having inefficient SMICs. When I used water injection's chemical cooling properties as a supplement, I ran SMICs in my car (I even went as far as deleting one of them to reduce pressure drop and improve response), and later in my progression went to air-to-liquid intercooling instead of a FMIC. It wasn't until a racing class change forbidding the use of chemical cooling and air-to-liquid intercooling that I reluctantly went with a FMIC. It does the job with air charge cooling, but the car required major upgrade to the coolant and oil systems to keep up with the blockage in airfllow (upgraded radiator, external oil cooler, hood vent, etc.).

A good SMIC upgrade like TyrolSport or HPA is plenty for 99% of the people in this forum (including some BT setup). I takes a car with extreme charge cooling needs to warrant the negatives of sticking a wall in front of our already-struggling radiator.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

I'm for the Fmic :mrgreen:


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

Not to worry it'll be winter soon then you'll have more cold air than you can shake a stick at :lol: joking aside a small improvement is better than nothing.


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## matzo (Oct 1, 2014)

Yes I wasn't intending to be critical of the op, I think updated smic make sense for most ! Fmic, loosing the use of the aliens and blocking the rad, seem too much of a compromise on what Audi intended...a quick search online shows the same items pictured branded as direnza but priced at £200. Personally the tyrolsport items look much better finished. But each to their own budget !!


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## peartcart12 (May 24, 2015)

Hi Alun, nice job m8,, how long did it take to do,,,, cheers


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## alun (Aug 2, 2010)

peartcart12 said:


> Hi Alun, nice job m8,, how long did it take to do,,,, cheers


tough one to answer depends how quick you can take a front bumper off... mines custom so comes off in about 10 mins and how easy your boost pipes come off.



matzo said:


> Interested in this as can't see why people block their main rad with a fmic tbh...could it be that these only show an improvement over std as the original were old and not performing as they should ?


these are thicker so a larger area than the standard, but the amount of crap that came out of my old ones when i took them off,.... a good clean and refitting would have been an improvement.



anthony_839 said:


> nice logging, i was looking at getting some of these instead of fmic
> do you know what the increased power out put is likely to be?


on the day of back to back testing, i saw no noticable gains in gs by adding these. i did however see a small boost increase at the manifold, the main difference will be on hot days or long runs, where heat soak is an issue, these seam to cool more consitantly lower and stay lower after a long run. i was roughly 6-8 degrees cooler on these across my runs over the standard ic's. so i could in theory run a litle more fuel and timing to produce more power without increasing temps.


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## alun (Aug 2, 2010)

infidel.uk said:


> how many £'s per horse then ?
> 
> id love to see just how much gain a car might achieve by replacing old for new with these . :?
> 
> b.t.w the welding looks ghastly in places!


im not a welder... what would i know.... :lol: :lol:

as far as price.. this is the seller..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351119378474?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

they sell for 150 which is a decent price for such an easy mod (in my opinion) the same seller puts them on auction now and again too.......

now it took me 3 weeks to win an auction at the price i wanted, but i got mine for £52 (8 quid delivery)


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Your very lucky to have won them for that price 

Good for you and they do look well built.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I wish someone would install a WMI kit alongside OEM SMICs so we could gauge the results I'm guessing people would not bother installing an uprated IC if the results were positive which I'm sure they would be.

Alum don't think I'm dissing you for one minute mate good work.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

It's quite pricey for Wmi and then fitting wiring up although if I were keeping mine I would have done a hybrid dp Wmi forge rods and a few other bits and pieces but sadly not.

anyone else?.

Sandy


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

jamman said:


> I wish someone would install a WMI kit alongside OEM SMICs so we could gauge the results I'm guessing people would not bother installing an uprated IC if the results were positive which I'm sure they would be.
> 
> Alum don't think I'm dissing you for one minute mate good work.


I ran WMI with dual OEM SMIC's, and a single SMIC at some point. Let me see what I can find in some old threads for you (any logs and data from that long ago is likely gone with the amount of fiddling I do).


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

^^^ This is an old post of mine on another forum answering someone inquiring about the use of water injection on the standard hardware. At the time this was posted, I was mid way through my water injection progress on the TT and was still running a single stock SMIC and water injection. The graph at the bottom showed what result were achieved with the factory SMICs with the help of water injection.



Madmax199 said:


> Water injection is great way to boost your engine's performance safely. There are many companies nowadays selling kits but anyone who has been using water injection long enough will tell you that the 3 big names in the game are #1 Aquamist, #2 Labonte and #3 Snow.
> I choose to run a Labonte Kit because of the incredible support that [email protected] Labonte provides, right here in the US. Richard L @ Aquamist is also a good help but they are based in Europe. I'd rather support the US business but I have to admit that Aquamist product is the nicest of the 3. Snow is also popular but does not provide the kind of support the other 2 main players do.
> 
> Water injection works two ways. One it removes heat by vaporization allowing to run higher boost levels without injesting lava. The second attribute to water injection is the octane boost that effectively raise the knock/detonation threshold. So basically water injection will allow you to push the agressiveness of the car's tune without blowing it up since water/meth does not in itself increase the power.
> ...


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## alun (Aug 2, 2010)

Sandy said:


> Your very lucky to have won them for that price
> .


exactly what i thought.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

alun said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > Your very lucky to have won them for that price
> ...


Having loads patience when biding I guess


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Nothing wrong with uprated smic's

Daz


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## alun (Aug 2, 2010)

DazWaite said:


> Nothing wrong with uprated smic's
> 
> Daz


im not totaly convinced i could squeeze these into the front wings of the TT though... [smiley=book2.gif]


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

DazWaite said:


> Nothing wrong with uprated smic's
> 
> Daz


Is that one of those crazy twin engine mods?.


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## alun (Aug 2, 2010)

im guessing its a rear engined golf.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

No idea why someone would do that when there's nothing wrong wth it being in the front :?


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

Sandy said:


> No idea why someone would do that when there's nothing wrong wth it being in the front :?


In the example of that picture, you have a rear mounted engine. The more pipe length to the intercoolers, the less efficient they will function (air traveling further loosing cooling), not to mention you have to accommodate room for piping


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

anthony_839 said:


> nice logging, i was looking at getting some of these instead of fmic
> do you know what the increased power out put is likely to be?


Erm. You realize the only "increase" in power from upgrading intercoolers is that it allows you to run more boost? They will not give you any power whatsoever unless you get a tune or up your boost via tuning or a mbc.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > No idea why someone would do that when there's nothing wrong wth it being in the front :?
> ...


Very true as the cold air takes a lot longer to travel to the rear :?

some people do a twin engined motor so I assumed this must be one of them.


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

The scoops for air flow are mounted where the rear windows were and FYI the engine is from a V10 Gallardo that is much the same as the R8 V10 but with the two snails lol

Daz


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> Erm. You realize the only "increase" in power from upgrading intercoolers is that it allows you to run more boost? They will not give you any power whatsoever unless you get a tune or up your boost via tuning or a mbc.


Not entirely true! Colder air is denser (packing more molecules per volume) and with more air, the ECU will call for more fuel and you get more power (squishing more with a bigger bang). Ever wondered why your car feels much more crisp in the winter? Well, it does for the same reason that reduced-IAT at the inlet manifold will allow for a bump in power (providing that the cooler upgrade is actually having a meaningful effect on measured IAT).

Another thing most people don't realize is that the ECU have many maps that references IAT, coolant temperature etc. Don't be surprised to see the ECU up-tune itself with lower IAT (does the same with coolant temperature as well). Get a decent improvement in your temperature air delta with a better IC, and you will see higher sustained timing advance, and less tendency for timing corrections with all else equal.

The common problem is that 90% of the cookie cutter IC "upgrades" offer marginal improvement (if any) at actual charge cooling. Most of them are just better heat sinks and can withstand heak soaking for longer periods -- they don't significantly lower the charge temperature. Get a decently sized Garret core (e.g. their 500-up HP cores), place its entire surface area in clean airflow and you will see your dynamic temperature delta under WOT barely rise above ambient - do this on the rollers and you will undoubtedly get a bump in power from an IC upgrade.


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## DazWaite (Dec 4, 2012)

Hi Max....hope all is well over the other side of the Atlantic Highway dude....one of my buddies moved from here to Rochester.....he's on Instagram "sheetmetalidiot" and is now married and living the dream...

Gonz makes us laugh sometimes....well most of the time.....keeps us entertained.....he needs to learn that it's not always about the "boost".....he's addicted to it !!! I think he might blow his head off soon.....

Daz


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

Madmax199 said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > Erm. You realize the only "increase" in power from upgrading intercoolers is that it allows you to run more boost? They will not give you any power whatsoever unless you get a tune or up your boost via tuning or a mbc.
> ...


I stand corrected! It was my understanding that the ECU can adjust to lower intake air temps but not to correlate to any real significant power? I know that when you upgrade your coolant system, especially the radiator, it does significantly help from a thread I read upon a few months back on fourtitude! 


DazWaite said:


> Gonz makes us laugh sometimes....well most of the time.....keeps us entertained.....he needs to learn that it's not always about the "boost".....he's addicted to it !!! I think he might blow his head off soon.....


 Someone's gotta keep these forums alive :lol: 
And haha I'm getting there man I swear [smiley=bomb.gif]. Hopefully it's my head first before the engine.


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## alun (Aug 2, 2010)

madmax. you sound like youve done some research personally on this type of thing. have you ever logged any runs with and without the ic shrouds?

my new front bumper has much bigger holes in the front where the scoops used to attach, so now they dont attach, and just sit behind the bumper hanging about ( probably not very efficiently ) i was thinking of taking them off and directing my front dams up into the wings towards the ic's.

any thoughts?

so basicaly running without shrouds but directing the air from the front into the wings (fenDoors)


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

alun said:


> madmax. you sound like youve done some research personally on this type of thing. have you ever logged any runs with and without the ic shrouds?
> 
> my new front bumper has much bigger holes in the front where the scoops used to attach, so now they dont attach, and just sit behind the bumper hanging about ( probably not very efficiently ) i was thinking of taking them off and directing my front dams up into the wings towards the ic's.
> 
> ...


Yes, I would take the shrouds off and create air routing from the front. Another thing that I tested to make a substantial difference was to open up the area behind the SMICs. By doing this, you'll allow air that makes it to the cores to flow past them much easier (much less restriction).


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## alun (Aug 2, 2010)

ok, shouds are going. and i'll create something to direct air up and into. when you say open up the area behind, do you mean the wheel well? or cut wings ?


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

alun said:


> ok, shouds are going. and i'll create something to direct air up and into. when you say open up the area behind, do you mean the wheel well? or cut wings ?


Pretty sure he means start hacking away the wall behind the intercoolers, this is a separate wall from the very outside chassis if I remember correctly, whether you'll be compromising structural integrity or not is probably something I wouldn't risk personally


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> alun said:
> 
> 
> > ok, shouds are going. and i'll create something to direct air up and into. when you say open up the area behind, do you mean the wheel well? or cut wings ?
> ...


No, I'm not asking to hack anything structural. There is a louvered section of the plastic splash guard in the wheel well, just get a knife or a rotary cutter and cut the louvered sections open. Audi added the louvers to the splash guard to help with flow through the factory side-mounted coolers, but there is a lot of room for improvement. Kinda like a Wak box mod for slash guards... :lol:

Cut open in that rectangular louvered portion of the gard in the pic below. The more you open it, the better ambient airflow will through the cores, and the more efficiently they will perform


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## 1781cc (Jan 25, 2015)

Madmax199 said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > alun said:
> ...


hmmm, this has got me thinking about removing the arch liners entirely!


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

Madmax199 said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > alun said:
> ...


Okay gotcha, should have just said to open up the wheel liner in the first place Max :wink: :lol: 
That seems viable, however I don't think it'll be a popular mod lol


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## alun (Aug 2, 2010)

will the back of the intercooler not get covered in dirt/mud etc from the wheels?


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

For a car that sees track dutie I don't see why not. The liners come to a good chunk of weight if all 4 are removed, and the arches are well sealed on these cars.


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

alun said:


> will the back of the intercooler not get covered in dirt/mud etc from the wheels?


They will be fine!


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

alun said:


> will the back of the intercooler not get covered in dirt/mud etc from the wheels?


Like I mentioned, this is not a popular mod because it's meant for performance cars willing to sacrifice form for functionality. Good luck explaining to your potential buyer 2 years from now how the wheel arches were thrown away because "weight reduction bro" :lol: 
All jokes aside, it's not a mod for the general masses. For track cars, definitely. Especially if you already have a gutted interior there's no going back now!

Now speaking of scoops, for those of us with FMICs, would it not be ideal to create some scoops where the old intercoolers sat and direct airflow behind the FMIC to the radiator? I could see it being possible, or would it be better (for performance at least) to seal up the openings for less wind resistance at high speeds?


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## CollecTTor (Jan 17, 2014)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> Like I mentioned, this is not a popular mod because it's meant for performance cars willing to sacrifice form for functionality. Good luck explaining to your potential buyer 2 years from now how the wheel arches were thrown away because "weight reduction bro" :lol:


Who says you have to throw them away when you remove them? :lol:


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

CollecTTor said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > Like I mentioned, this is not a popular mod because it's meant for performance cars willing to sacrifice form for functionality. Good luck explaining to your potential buyer 2 years from now how the wheel arches were thrown away because "weight reduction bro" :lol:
> ...


A least someone sees things the same way I do. Lol

And if you're modding/cutting the lovered section only (which is what is needed), it's not different as a mod then cutting holes in an airbox. Something that seems high in popularity in the UK forum at least.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

Never throw away anything as you never know when it'll be needed Gonz :?


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

CollecTTor said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > Like I mentioned, this is not a popular mod because it's meant for performance cars willing to sacrifice form for functionality. Good luck explaining to your potential buyer 2 years from now how the wheel arches were thrown away because "weight reduction bro" :lol:
> ...


I've heard Gonzys mum is always clearing up after him :wink:


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

It was said for the sake of the joke guys, you should see my storage area... 
More so a comment about how the wheel arches will be worthless after you cut them to prospective/clueless buyers.



jamman said:


> CollecTTor said:
> 
> 
> > Gonzalo1495 said:
> ...


I heard Jamman's mom tends to help too whenever she's over at my house as well :wink:


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## alun (Aug 2, 2010)

mom jokes.... :lol: have i woke up back in the 80's

i might press some bigger vents into my wheel arch liners, not sure yet. as for the front scoops. i removed them and im busy dreaming up some new ones . pics may follow.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

alun said:


> mom jokes.... :lol: have i woke up back in thew 80's
> 
> i might press some bigger vents into my wheel arch liners, not sure yet. as for the front scoops. i removed them and im busy dreaming up some new ones . pics may follow.


70's for some :lol: although I remember this in the 90's

Sad huh?.


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## alun (Aug 2, 2010)

Sandy said:


> alun said:
> 
> 
> > mom jokes.... :lol: have i woke up back in thew 80's
> ...


i was only a baby in the 70's.


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## Sandy (May 5, 2014)

alun said:


> Sandy said:
> 
> 
> > alun said:
> ...


So was I but talking about the other guy :roll: :lol:


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## Mr_Smith (Jul 24, 2014)

What was the conclusion to this? Are the eBay SMICs worth doing? Or just get a FMIC? Cheers


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## alun (Aug 2, 2010)

tough question. for a definitive answer, you would need back to back testing of a fmic vs an uprated smic vs original smic, which i don't have.

i have posted the uprated smic figs vs the standard , so make your own mind up. i would say for the price its worth uprating the side mounts. (especially for the price i paid) and its very little work.


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

1781cc said:


> hmmm, this has got me thinking about removing the arch liners entirely!


Mine are long gone.

VT


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