# facelift v's pre-facelift



## GilesRamsden (Nov 4, 2008)

What are the difference between the early Mk1 TT's and the facelift Mk1 versions?

Also, what date was the changeover?

I was unaware that there even was a facelift model as to me, they all look the same!


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

Pre face lift cars made before 2002 have 5 bar grills leather gear knobs and some other different bits I can't think of right now. Bulk CD loader in in the rear passanger wing. Some say pre face lift cars are better built and have better quality components/materials and that with post face lift cars they cut costs by using cheaper materials. 
Face lift modles are 2002 on with 3 bars grills and all alloy gear knobs and BAM engines ( I think) althought my 2001 cars got a BAM engine. :? Face lift have other improvments to gear change linkage and other bits and bobs. Bulk CD loader in now in the boot. car is lower ( 20mm I think) than pre face lifts. I am sure somebody will be along shortly to give you more differences.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

There was a good thread on it a few months ago listing most of the differences.

But the obvious differences are the grille, gear-knob, lowered and 18" RSTT alloys as standard.


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## ttsteve (Nov 1, 2007)

les said:


> Pre face lift cars made before 2002 have 5 bar grills leather gear knobs and some other different bits I can't think of right now. Bulk CD loader in in the rear passanger wing. Some say pre face lift cars are better built and have better quality components/materials and that with post face lift cars they cut costs by using cheaper materials.
> Face lift modles are 2002 on with 3 bars grills and all alloy gear knobs and BAM engines ( I think) althought my 2001 cars got a BAM engine. :? Face lift have other improvments to gear change linkage and other bits and bobs. Bulk CD loader in now in the boot. car is lower ( 20mm I think) than pre face lifts. I am sure somebody will be along shortly to give you more differences.


Were all mk1 TTs assembled in the same factory? or, (for example) were facelift models made somewhere else?


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## GilesRamsden (Nov 4, 2008)

Great... thanks!

So if I went for the *facelift *'_standard_' springs, that would be the same as putting on S-line springs on Rach's pre-facelift '00 Mk1 225 effectively?


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## Sublime (Jul 14, 2009)

les said:


> Bulk CD loader in now in the boot.


Mine's a facelifted version, 03, and it has the CD auto-changer in the compartment at the side of the rear seats, with the first aid kit in the opposite one, but it is just on the changeover so probably they were using up parts.


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## Muzza1uk (Jul 14, 2009)

I've got a Feb'04 V6 and the bulk changer is also in the side compartment, it's does have the 3 bar grill though.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

GilesRamsden said:


> Great... thanks!
> 
> So if I went for the *facelift *'_standard_' springs, that would be the same as putting on S-line springs on Rach's pre-facelift '00 Mk1 225 effectively?


yes and there are often s/h sets on the for sale section,its a shame to spend all that money on standard ride hight .,, ( unless you live on a farm !! )


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## swfblade (Apr 24, 2007)

just to throw more confusion, mines a 2002 02 plate, has 5 bar grill, side changer, alloy knob, 18" RS alloys and S-line suspension.


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## swfblade (Apr 24, 2007)

roddy said:


> yes and there are often s/h sets on the for sale section,its a shame to spend all that money on standard ride hight .,, ( unless you live on a farm !! )


Or you don't want to compromise the stock setup. I am going to replace my S-line shox with standard S-line shox when I get round to it. Remember Sline is 20mm lower than non any way.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

bit more confusion, :? :? :? , mine is 03 with all the face lift but single cd unit !!! .   , V.  .


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## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

Also the rear view mirror changed shape, aero wipers and probably some other things too 

Charlie


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## mattyR (Sep 14, 2006)

Golfstrike said:


> Also the rear view mirror changed shape, aero wipers and probably some other things too
> 
> Charlie


Aero wipers came later one....2003 sometime. My Oct 2002 car had the new shape mirror but standard wipers

Matt


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Mines a 52 plate and had all the facelift things bar areo wipers


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## Super Josh (May 29, 2009)

Golfstrike said:


> Also the rear view mirror changed shape, aero wipers and probably some other things too
> 
> Charlie


Is their an advantage to the new shape mirror? Or were Audi commoning up on parts with another car?

Josh


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## TT Ade (Aug 20, 2007)

My 2001 car has the oval mirror, didn't the facelifts have the titanium headlight inserts?


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

swfblade said:


> roddy said:
> 
> 
> > yes and there are often s/h sets on the for sale section,its a shame to spend all that money on standard ride hight .,, ( unless you live on a farm !! )
> ...


but as i am sure you already know,,changing the shox ( shockabsorbers ? ) will not alter the ride hight..... further confusion dpt. mine ,03,old style wipers,tho these could be cheaper option replacements by a prev owner


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## swfblade (Apr 24, 2007)

Sorry should have said shox and springs. (sorry again shox, my shorthand for Shocks) :lol:

Yes, mine's got the Titanium lights, not sure about the rear view. Any pics of the 2 to compare?


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## Sublime (Jul 14, 2009)

Golfstrike said:


> aero wipers and probably some other things too
> 
> Charlie


I think the aero wipers came about on 53 or maybe 04 plate, my facelifted 03 didn't have them, it does now


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## 5UBY (Feb 26, 2009)

> swfblade on Today, 10:28
> just to throw more confusion, mines a 2002 02 plate, has 5 bar grill, side changer, alloy knob, 18" RS alloys and S-line suspension.


Me too!


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## rustybear100 (Sep 22, 2008)

where did you guys get the flat wipers from? Are they just retro fit wipers or the whole arms etc?


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## Sublime (Jul 14, 2009)

rustybear100 said:


> where did you guys get the flat wipers from? Are they just retro fit wipers or the whole arms etc?


You can either go this route, http://www.thettshop.com/oem.asp?cat=20 ... uct=901149, or this one, http://www.wiperblades.co.uk/bosch-ar55 ... =prod-info, it all depends on which you like the look of, both perform the same.


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## smithtt (Nov 11, 2008)

The leather and the steering wheel leathr is a lot mor matt compared to the pre facelift. The rear view mirror is oval onn facelift. The wipers become aero, The bonnet underneath was matted rather than gloss finish. The gearknob was changed to all alloy. The rear spoiler inderside did not have the part number sticker that all recalls had and the blue tint on the mirror were changed to clear glass.


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## rustybear100 (Sep 22, 2008)

Sublime said:


> rustybear100 said:
> 
> 
> > where did you guys get the flat wipers from? Are they just retro fit wipers or the whole arms etc?
> ...


Thanks for that!!!


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## SimonQS (Jul 21, 2008)

Dash said:


> There was a good thread on it a few months ago listing most of the differences.
> 
> But the obvious differences are the grille, gear-knob, lowered and 18" RSTT alloys as standard.


My old 2002 (02) 225 had all of the "face lift" options on it but had a 5 bar grille.


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## k31ron (Jul 9, 2009)

SimonQS said:


> My old 2002 (02) 225 had all of the "face lift" options on it but had a 5 bar grille.


Mine too, 2002 (52) everything bar the grill


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## forest (Mar 17, 2009)

Same again, my 52 plate has all except the 5 bar grill and standard wipers. I think a lot depends what options the original owners specified.


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## ChadW (May 2, 2003)

k31ron said:


> SimonQS said:
> 
> 
> > My old 2002 (02) 225 had all of the "face lift" options on it but had a 5 bar grille.
> ...


Me too, the 3 bar grille came in during Oct 2002.


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

ChadW said:


> k31ron said:
> 
> 
> > SimonQS said:
> ...


 Strange thing is the TT concept cars both ( TTC & TTS it wasnt called the TTR) had 3 bar grills so why they changed them to 5 bar for the production models then back to 3 bar in 2002 is a strange one IMO. :?


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## T3RBO (Dec 9, 2003)

les said:


> Strange thing is the TT concept cars both ( TTC & TTS it wasnt called the TTR) had 3 bar grills so why they changed them to 5 bar for the production models then back to 3 bar in 2002 is a strange one IMO. :?


Audi realised their mistake


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

T3RBO said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> > Strange thing is the TT concept cars both ( TTC & TTS it wasnt called the TTR) had 3 bar grills so why they changed them to 5 bar for the production models then back to 3 bar in 2002 is a strange one IMO. :?
> ...


 Hmm more like a marketing ploy. 5 bar now then when we do the facelift and make the care worse we can fool the sheep with the 3 bar grill into thinking less is more. :wink:


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

smithtt said:


> the blue tint on the mirror were changed to clear glass.


I noticed the other day that mine were clear and others were blue. What's the reason for having blue tints?


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## Bikerz (Aug 23, 2008)

Sublime said:


> rustybear100 said:
> 
> 
> > where did you guys get the flat wipers from? Are they just retro fit wipers or the whole arms etc?
> ...


NOT TRUE!!!

If you get blade to fit the old arms they dont seem to work as well, well in My opion of course (but alot on here will agree)


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Bikerz said:


> NOT TRUE!!!
> 
> If you get blade to fit the old arms they dont seem to work as well, well in My opion of course (but alot on here will agree)


Disagree  Mine are much better than standard old wipers. How much better the new arms for these though, I couldn't say.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

I'm with Bikerz on the wipers question. My transition model had the old wipers and I first tried fitting these with retrofit aero blades. Found they didn't work particularly well, especially at motorway speeds. I think it was because the arms stand so proud of the blades the wind tends to lift them slightly so that they don't always sit flush to the screen. I replaced them with the new OEM arms and blades and these are much better.

We've had this one before but 2002 cars can all tend to be slightly different, as they used up parts from the old bins before moving onto the replacements. My car had pretty much everything except it came with a 5 bar grille and the old wipers but retained the CD changer next to the back seats, which I'm glad of as I think that's a better place for it. Got the alloy gear knob, oval rear view mirror, lowered suspension, 18" RS wheels and titanium light inserts. I've since changed the grille and wipers so the car is indistinguishable from a later face-lift model.


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## Sublime (Jul 14, 2009)

Bikerz said:


> Sublime said:
> 
> 
> > rustybear100 said:
> ...


Actually they do, I borrowed a friends OEM ones that came as standard on a slightly younger TT than mine, i.e., swapping the complete arms, against the correct Bosch retrofit ones from the link I provided, and tested them under different speeds, etc., they sit and perform the same on my 03 TT.


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## ChadW (May 2, 2003)

Must admit the CD Changer move is a totally new one on me, when did Audi do this and where in the boot did it go?


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## j_magic (Sep 22, 2009)

I've read all three pages of this post and now I'm more confused than when I started! I have a 52' plate 225 reg Sept 02 which has some facelift/pre facelift parts.. I have a metal gear knob, oval mirror, blue wing mirror glass, 5 bar grill and 18" RS4 rims. The thing I would like to know is if my car has the facelift suspension so how do I find this out? Also what do facelift and pre-facelift steering wheels look like?


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## swfblade (Apr 24, 2007)

Sounds similar to mine....Steering wheel, early ones had the badge on the bottom. If you dont have one, its a later one.

Suspension, its 25mm lower on the S-Line/later suspension. If your car looks like an offroader, you have older suspension :lol: I believe there is also a mark on the S-Line suspension, like a yellow line or something as well.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2009)

j_magic said:


> Also what do facelift and pre-facelift steering wheels look like?


beat me to that one, mine's got the lovely little s-line strips on the steering wheel.

mine's from back in '99 and i'm pretty sure the wing mirror glass isn't blue, i may be mistaken though.



swfblade said:


> If your car looks like an offroader, you have older suspension...


True dat haha, i really need to sort mine out once everything else is sorted (wishes insurers would hurry up!)


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## Aaronbayor (Sep 11, 2009)

My TT is a X plate but its a facelift version???


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## TT Ade (Aug 20, 2007)

Aaronbayor said:


> My TT is a X plate but its a facelift version???


It will have been modified by a previous owner is the most likely answer.


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## T3RBO (Dec 9, 2003)

Jakalus said:


> j_magic said:
> 
> 
> > Also what do facelift and pre-facelift steering wheels look like?
> ...


I give up how many times I have typed this but here we go again...

The 99 and 00 TT's came with an *Audi Sport badge* on the steering wheel

An S-Line badge is pretty easy to spot as funnily enough it will have the word S LINE written on it


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## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

OOOOH Touchy (accompanied by the handbags gesture) :lol: :lol:

come on Robb you know it's on a loop, we are only a few hours/days away from the next "which is faster post" 

Charlie


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## swfblade (Apr 24, 2007)

Which is faster, my grannie or my toilet flu.... oh you were joking.... :lol:


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2009)

T3RBO said:


> I give up how many times I have typed this but here we go again...
> 
> The 99 and 00 TT's came with an *Audi Sport badge* on the steering wheel
> 
> An S-Line badge is pretty easy to spot as funnily enough it will have the word S LINE written on it


oh dear, i do apologise, seems i'm a tard for not being able to think of another name for the stripes very similar to those you see on s-line cars.....................................................

but ok, 'audi sport badge' it is.


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## BadgerTT (Nov 16, 2019)

As a new TTer I hadn't factored in checking wipers, door mirror colour, rear view mirror shape etc on my 02 but looks like I will have to now to satisfy that previously unknown need to know, as I seem to have a mix of pre and post facelift. I was really just trying to identify what Audi suspension I might have - 5 white(ish) dots on the front springs and three red on the rears I believe from another thread means 'sport' springs so 20mm drop in height but is there any difference in the dampers (currently black with Audi stickers so I am assuming original spec)? How much rear wheel camber should a standard sport set up have as I definitely have some from looking at the stance? Longer term aim is to overhaul the handling a little but just need to see what base I am starting with. No other uprated suspension parts like bushes identified yet, so stock sport seems likely but grateful for any advice.


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

BadgerTT said:


> As a new TTer I hadn't factored in checking wipers, door mirror colour, rear view mirror shape etc on my 02 but looks like I will have to now to satisfy that previously unknown need to know, as I seem to have a mix of pre and post facelift. I was really just trying to identify what Audi suspension I might have - 5 white(ish) dots on the front springs and three red on the rears I believe from another thread means 'sport' springs so 20mm drop in height but is there any difference in the dampers (currently black with Audi stickers so I am assuming original spec)? How much rear wheel camber should a standard sport set up have as I definitely have some from looking at the stance? Longer term aim is to overhaul the handling a little but just need to see what base I am starting with. No other uprated suspension parts like bushes identified yet, so stock sport seems likely but grateful for any advice.


Door mirrors should be body coloured on all TTs the 3 bar grill and aero wipers were not part of the facelift they came later


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## Spliffy (May 3, 2013)

Door mirrors should be body coloured on all TTs the 3 bar grill and aero wipers were not part of the facelift they came later[/quote]
I thought the grill was part of the facelift but not the S line package that predated the facelift ?

Nick


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Spliffy said:


> Door mirrors should be body coloured on all TTs the 3 bar grill and aero wipers were not part of the facelift they came later


I thought the grill was part of the facelift but not the S line package that predated the facelift ?

Nick[/quote]
The facelift was March 2002 3 bar grill came at the end of 2002


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

I know I know it's late on in the evening I am hungry and had too much stella's but to simplify this whole discussion.

pre-facelift = Norfolk tractor / Sunday leftovers
facelift = 155mph sports car / looks longer 'cause it's lower

modified pre-facelift = facelift 
modified facelift = 156mph sports car

just get a facelift to short cut a shed load of pain, and if you are thinking about modifying your TT the first thing you should buy is a WIDEBAND O2 Sensor from a facelift TT as that is the minimum requirement to re-map your car. also you can then use a EGT Sensor to ensure you are not cracking your turbo getting more power out of it.

_When I started overclocking computers it was a dark secretive world of sneakily updating things which had not been locked down in a bios, then a motherboard manufacturer took away the sneakiness and published and encouraged the bits and pieces - you need to consider the facelift of a 225 BAM TT, likewise the AMK / BAM S3 an invitation to "have a go" - forget about the pre-facelift TT (APY) or S3 (APY) to get the most out of it - although they will probably out-live the Facelift versions; as me and my 'elk/type? would have blown them all up  _


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

StuartDB said:


> I know I know it's late on in the evening I am hungry and had too much stella's but to simplify this whole discussion.
> 
> pre-facelift = Norfolk tractor / Sunday leftovers
> facelift = 155mph sports car / looks longer 'cause it's lower
> ...


and later still,,, words of wisdom from Stuart ,,, it is of little importance , certainly not in value, as any TT is worth about as much as a sherbert fountain nowadays , ( unless it is a QS, which is not any better than any proper modified / modernised 225 bam but does still seem to fetch a price ) as any one who has a MK1 and certainly anyone who has a keeper ( as there is no point is selling !! ) will have replaced / modernised / replaced with better anything which was called S line back then ,, unless of course one is to place any importance in having an S badge on the steering wheel , keep the oil strainer clean and enjoy.


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## peter139 (Jan 5, 2012)

what i know

control arm front bushing size
front seat is different, less stitches (only first at 1998 models)
updated switches like the warning switch
updated 2002 cluster (but didn't work either)
some hoses (pcv valve) in the engine bay were made thicker because they were not strong enough.
flat blades were only installed on 3.2 
antiroll bar thickness


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## Arpy (Nov 6, 2017)

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... st#p100180
My go-to page for this question.


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