# Electronic Handbrake



## RB0103 (Mar 9, 2015)

I had never had a car with a push button handbrake before and after 32 years of driving am finding this device is challenging me in all sorts of ways. So here are my concerns for anyone more experienced than me who would be kind enough to assist me.....
I have had my new TT since 1st March, and it is petrol, manual, does not have hold assist, and I am getting used to this new button idea apart from when on a very steep hill in very slow moving traffic.
Is it safe to hold the car temporarily 'on the clutch'? Everyone has told me yes (including the dealership) but I was always taught not to do this as it wears the thrust bearing and springs - do these modern cars have an alternative set up perhaps that allows this sitting in traffic with the clutch partly out and the revs up so you 'balance' the car.
On a steep hill, slow moving, with cars stacked up in front of you, if you pull away then everyone stops, you have to depress the clutch quickly and move your foot from the accelerator to the footbrake, this makes me nervous as when on a steep hill there is that split second when you could roll back because you haven't gained enough speed/momentum to be sure this won't happen, but I assume this is what you have to do in order to get the handbrake back on, because correct me if I am wrong but the car has to be completely still in order for the handbrake to engage.
In the good old days with a lever mechanical brake, you could ease away slowly using the combination of the brake, clutch and accelerator in a slow moving hill situation, this new set up seems to want to be completely still or doing 10mph, unless there is some manual intervention that I haven't sussed out yet, I must admit I am a little worried about trying it in case I do any damage.
I have consulted the dealership a few times and just get told 'oh you'll get used to it' and they have offered to take me for a lesson which I intend to take them up on when I get time, but in the meantime I thought I would pop this post on here just to see if anyone has any advice.
In addition, I have been talking to a lot of friends about this and have discovered so far (not audis) one person who had to call out his manufacturers dealership because the solenoid completely stuck on at a junction, a neighbour who has to 'rock' her car fwds and back to unstick it every day to get her car off the drive, and a taxi driver who parked her car on a hill and when the family were getting out it started to roll down the hill. I myself had a hire car from work last year, and when trying to reverse out of a hilly car park, had to almost wheelspin the car backwards to get it to go backwards after it rolled forwards three times and almost smacked into a stone wall.
My mothers neighbour took their car back to the dealer and swapped it for a manual brake after being totally unable to cope with the button concept, and another friend recently bought a 2nd hand car rather than a new one to avoid having this button system..... meaning there is a whole generation out there who are going to stop buying cars and get the bus.
I'm sure most people cope no problem, and believe me I want to be one of those people, but so far I am breaking into a cold sweat every time I am on a steep hill, because I am terrified of rolling backwards and equally terrified of wrecking the clutch on this magnificent car. 
Any advice would be great thanks.


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## spike (Dec 26, 2013)

I mentioned this to the designer at the london launch, my GF has a electronic handbrake on her astra, and is awful, he said the audi version would be better! seems its not.

My dad changed from his 3rd Honda Jazz to an A1 mainly because of the manual handbrake option at that time.

I guess people just dont like electric handbrakes.

certainly agree on a hill, the astra is a nightmare to get moving, even with hill assist which sometimes works, sometimes holds too long, sometimes doesn't stop you rolling back at all


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## BobDerby (Mar 8, 2015)

Hello there RB0103,

I have the same model TT as you and indeed it does get a little bit of getting use to.
But to answer your question yes you can hold it on the clutch as you can on most manual cars, if you are comfortable doing, this, also you can just apply the electro-handbreak, it won't disengage until you have built up enough revs, so there is no damager of rolling until the vehicle has enough power to move in the direction you want to.

However to give yourself more confidence I would go out late at night, when the roads are quiet find an industrial estate that's got a good gradient or a quiet steep road and just practice doing stop starts and crawling up the hill.
Also I wouldn't worry what other people say about malfunctioning equipment as given a long enough time-line everything breaks


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## patatus (Jun 12, 2006)

Hand break doesn't get off automatically when you accelerate with the manual gear box? With the S-tronic (without hold assist) this is what happens....


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## Jasongren1 (Nov 30, 2014)

I have the manual and the electronic hand break does release automatically


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Electronic handbrakes are spawn of the devil :evil:

They were driven by the brake manufacturers to head off brake parts being obtained from cheaper copy sources to protect their own interests by designing in complexity more difficult to reproduce. They were marketed to manufacturers as an improvement even though they are not as they add unnecessary complexity and lose functionality.

I've used them on hire cars including Audi and think they are awful. Especially if you manage to stall the engine whilst trying to move off and then have to go through the palaver of not being able to start the engine until you press the clutch pedal embarrassment 

I experimented with pressing the button at speed to see what happens - full and immediate rear wheels lock up! Not a clever design. I was doing this safe in a straight line but imagine if your brakes failed and you needed to do this whilst going round a bend :?

What you need is a progressive hand operated lever that gently applies the brakes as required to the extent required. Then it's useful for all sorts of driving occasions and not some sort of inadequate dangerous joke of an emergency brake.

If you are unfortunate enough to have one, holding it on the clutch instead of using the rear brake button will cause premature wear of your clutch plate and release bearing as these items are no different.


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## BobDerby (Mar 8, 2015)

When driving away on a gradient the parking brake auto release function prevents the vehicle from rolling back unintentionally. The braking force of the handbreak is only released when there is enough power at the wheels to make the vehicle move in the desired direction. See pages 66-67 of the 'owners manual.'


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## BumBum_BumBum (Mar 10, 2015)

John-H said:


> I experimented with pressing the button at speed to see what happens - full and immediate rear wheels lock up! Not a clever design. I was doing this safe in a straight line but imagine if your brakes failed and you needed to do this whilst going round a bend :?


Really? I've had an A5 with an electronic brake and now the MK3 and that did not/does not happen with either of them. I can happily push and pull the button at cruise speeds and absolutely nothing will happen. Even while pressing the brake pedal and then trying it at 'high' speed, the handbrake does not engage. Like you, I did some 'experiments' and hoped for the best! I've tested it at low speeds and it will come on at anything below 15km/h which is quite an abrupt stick-it-to-the-road kind of stop so no, the car does not have to be stationary for it to engage as OP stated.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

I first did it at speed - perhaps 30 mph to 40 mph with, I think, a Passat courtesy car which locked the wheels up. I tried it with a new Audi recently, I think an A5 but it may only have been at low speed thinking about it. Still, what are you supposed to do for an emergency brake at speed if it's disabled? It really is a bad idea either way I think :?


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

I've not tried in the Mk3 TT but all the other Audis I've driven with the electric handbrake work like this:

http://www.audi.co.uk/glossary/e/electr ... brake.html

Applying the handbrake on the move by holding the lever up gives an 'emergency stop' at around 70% (I think) of max braking effect.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

brittan said:


> I've not tried in the Mk3 TT but all the other Audis I've driven with the electric handbrake work like this:
> 
> http://www.audi.co.uk/glossary/e/electr ... brake.html
> 
> Applying the handbrake on the move by holding the lever up gives an 'emergency stop' at around 70% (I think) of max braking effect.





> In the event of an emergency braking manoeuvre with the parking brake, the vehicle can be braked considerably more effectively than with a conventional handbrake because the system communicates with the anti-lock braking system (ABS) and electronic brake force distribution (EBD) via the electronic stabilisation programme (ESP).


Interesting, so why are people saying it's disabled? My experience was that it's full on when activated. Either way I still prefer an "analogue" progressive rather than "digital" or non existent handbrake - and in any case; who is going to think to flick a piddling little switch in an emergency? The more robust traditional handbrake lever that works so simply without complication is far more likely to be instinctively reached for. They should have kept the lever and at least made an "analogue" of the original.


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

John-H said:


> Interesting, so why are people saying it's disabled?


Engage handbrake when stationary = pull lever up and let go.
Engage handbrake on the move = pull lever up and hold it there.

Perhaps some are not holding the lever in the up position?


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

brittan said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting, so why are people saying it's disabled?
> ...


If true that just adds to my assertion that the use of the thing in an emergency is entirely unobvious, unintuative and therefore ineffective and a retrograde step regarding safety.


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## SalsredTT (Jan 8, 2011)

Horrid things - like John says, spawn of the devil!

Had my first encounter with one a few weeks ago - needed to move a strange car - backed off car park onto hill with Boss in his Merc right behind me, then realised I couldn't find the sodding handbrake so held it with the clutch for a minute, then booted it to get back up the hill. Lovely taxi driver (owner) says he hates it too, but loves car otherwise!


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## MrsTT (Nov 8, 2014)

We have it on both our Audis and contrary to this thread love it, hill hold on MKIII makes it even better and don't miss the ancient old school handbrake one bit, improved aesthetics and extra space a bonus too. Have no issues on hills and in combination with the stop start traffic queues etc. much better IMHO. Didn't like the loss of a gear stick however when we test drove a MK2 TTS with S-tronic - different strokes for different folks I guess


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

Yes, some awkward aspects to the operation of them.

Consider the Audi one: you have to have the seat belt fastened so that the h/brake will auto release. If you want to move your car on a private, sloping car park or you private, sloping drive would you put on the seat belt? Probably not, so you have to apply the footbrake in order to release the handbrake. Now, in your manual car, you need to do a hill start . . . . . :?


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Yes. Unintuitive. Very poor and dare I say, due to that, inconsiderative of the ergonomics of an emergency situation.


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## MrsTT (Nov 8, 2014)

In all the years I have been driving I have never had a situation where I needed to use the hand brake in an emergency - cant really think of a situation where it would be appropriate?

I am not into hand brake turns so that could be an issue for some I guess, but not something I will miss either.

We have a sloping drive and I have often moved it without the seat belt and a simple tap of the brake releases the electric brake - non issue here too for me.

As to the original posting I think it can take a bit of getting used, but once you get the confidence with the system its pretty good.

Hill starts - typically there is also a 2-3 second delay hold (if you have pressed only the foot brake) giving plenty of time to get the bite and move off.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

I regularly use the handbrake to keep the discs clean and stop them rusting up at the same time as an aid to gently slowing down at an opportune moment. Most braking is done on the front generally and the rear can suffer with rust/pitting/tarnish and give poor friction performance especially if the car is laid up frequently. Handbrake turns would only work if you had decent friction too :wink:


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## RB0103 (Mar 9, 2015)

Thanks everyone, I guess I just need to do more practice and get the garage to take me out in it to see what they say about the steep hill slow moving traffic scenario. I absolutely love the car, and I am adapting fine for most driving situations, but I just want to be sure I am not wrecking the clutch on a steep hill and want reassurance that the way I am using this new technology on a very steep hill in stop start slow traffic is reflecting the manufacturers intention for it. I do think after 32 years of doing something one way, to have to snap out of it and do it differently, is a challenge, and I think it is interesting that manufacturers have chosen this when we have an ageing population and therefore a whole market out there that they are going to lose for the next few years... But that's another story I guess.


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

Soi what happens if you are facing downwards on a hill and you want to reverse up the hill from a standstill?


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## BumBum_BumBum (Mar 10, 2015)

ZephyR2 said:


> Soi what happens if you are facing downwards on a hill and you want to reverse up the hill from a standstill?


Go down to the bottom and turn!


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## RB0103 (Mar 9, 2015)

Doing a normal hill start forwards or backwards is fine, it's the steep hill slow moving traffic scenario that is giving me the challenge - just finding it hard to get used to it and if you are already holding the car on the clutch / biting point as instructed by the dealer, seeing red traffic lights going on ahead and thinking oh, best put the handbrake on, but making sure the car doesn't roll back while your right foot jumps from the accelerator to the footbrake.....just makes me nervous that's all, when you are used to feeling the security of the handbrake we have had for years. I am only talking about very steep hills and slow moving traffic, apart from that I am fine. This hold assist thing, which was not mentioned to me until two weeks after I got the car, ... If there is no known problem of potential roll back, then why does hold assist even exist. Anyway, clearly I need to practice and gets confidence with it, but I do think its a challenging change for us mid life crisis aged people.


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## BumBum_BumBum (Mar 10, 2015)

RB0103 said:


> but making sure the car doesn't roll back while your right foot jumps from the accelerator to the footbrake....


Well that's only a matter of practice and just taking a moment to find the bite with the clutch to hold the car in position while your foot changes over to the brake. If you just slow everything down and allow yourself a few seconds to find the bite every time your right foot has to switch then you won't have any bother. This will also reduce the amount of time you're holding the car on the clutch to a few moments post stopping and pre moving rather than the entire duration of your hill stop - will help to minimise the wear and tear you're worried about.

Of course, I'm only driving 10 years and may well have developed all sorts of bad habits in that time. Your experience will inevitably allow you find a technique that you're comfortable with soon enough.


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## RB0103 (Mar 9, 2015)

Okay so I have read the manual in detail now and been out to find a hill, and I think I know where I have been going wrong. I think there may be some embarrassing long pauses on hills to come and I do think it will take some time before I master the clutch vs 3mph technique but I am sure I will get there. I also need to learn to 'trust' this 'piddling little button' which will also take time and patience. With the button to start it, the button to switch off the annoying stop start, the button for the handbrake.... Any more buttons and it's going to feel like I am driving a play station. Thanks for all the posts anyway, I reckon this is the marmite of the car world, you're going to love it or hate it.


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## Mr R (Mar 1, 2015)

So if you don't have Hill Hold Assist, I'm assuming the handbrake still releases automatically when you drive off (assuming seat belt is on)? Also I'm guessing you still get a 2 second delay when you release the button and take foot off brake before it properly releases...? My A3 works this way without Hill Hold Assist.


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## MrsTT (Nov 8, 2014)

Yes exactly as the A3.

The Hold assist's function is to apply the hand brake when you stop automatically - means you do not have to manually activate the hand brake button each time you stop, pretty seamless and a cheap add on - for a change.


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## Mr R (Mar 1, 2015)

Thanks Mrs TT - as you say for £90 its a bargain since it makes it all a bit more automatic.


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## 35mphspeedlimit (Sep 25, 2010)

MrsTT said:


> Yes exactly as the A3.
> 
> The Hold assist's function is to apply the hand brake when you stop automatically - means you do not have to manually activate the hand brake button each time you stop, pretty seamless and a cheap add on - for a change.


That in many ways is a relief but can you disengage the hold assist function (or does it disengage itself when you are not on a slope?) so that when you stop at a roundabout and spot a gap in traffic you are not left motionless for 2 seconds while the hold assist fulfills its function?


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## jryoung (Feb 8, 2015)

There is no "2 second delay" when you decide to move off. The 2 seconds is the max delay the car will hold if you are a bit slow with the biting point on the clutch. On our Tiguan, the hold assist/EHB combination is excellent and doesn't result in any change in ability to launch into gaps on a roundabout .


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## MrsTT (Nov 8, 2014)

Hold assist = manual hand brake if it makes it easier to think about. You don't need to be on a slope you just need to be at a stand still with your clutch lifted, it then automatically applies, basically in the same situations that you would apply your manual hand brake.

if you did not spec hill hold then you need to flick the switch to enable the electronic hand brake so it can only activate if you decide.

Both start/stop and hill hold have switches to disable if required.

The roundabout scenario - you would probably disable the start/stop function or keep your foot depressed on the clutch ready to pull out into the traffic flow, dipped clutch = nothing applies automatically.

Above applies to manual - not sure how it works with S-tronic, potentially foot on the brake is similar to dipping the clutch in a manual, but guessing?


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## 35mphspeedlimit (Sep 25, 2010)

MrsTT said:


> Hold assist = manual hand brake if it makes it easier to think about. You don't need to be on a slope you just need to be at a stand still with your clutch lifted, it then automatically applies, basically in the same situations that you would apply your manual hand brake.
> 
> if you did not spec hill hold then you need to flick the switch to enable the electronic hand brake so it can only activate if you decide.
> 
> ...


Ah yes, I forgot about start / stop technology too! :roll: I have hill hold and s-tronic so I suspect this new car is just going to take a little getting used to! :lol:


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## Mr R (Mar 1, 2015)

For me, Auto Stop/Start on an automatic just doesn't work. My other car is an auto and the first time it kicked in I was at a roundabout and stopped momentarily, but as I was about to move away the car stopped and then instantly restarted. It was a heart-stopping moment, and now you actually need to be very aware of it and turn off when approaching junctions/roundabouts.


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## MrsTT (Nov 8, 2014)

I disable the start/stop unless I am at traffic lights I too dislike the potential stop when you really need it least. The nice thing about the Audi stop/start, unlike others I have had is that even when stopped/disabled if you re-enable the stop/start it will turn the engine off, quite handy if you thought the lights were just about to change and don't. (once disabled in the mini it would not stop the engine if you turned back on while stationary)


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## SpudZ (Jul 15, 2012)

Light breaking on the s tronic demo I drove didn't infact engage the stop start. However a firm push on the break pedal engaged the stop start function. Try it.


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## 35mphspeedlimit (Sep 25, 2010)

I'm now beginning to wonder if 'hold assist' is a necessity, nice to have or hindrance with s-tronic? Any of you folk got it with the auto box?


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## ChadW (May 2, 2003)

Hmm anyone had this scenario before?

Pull up outside house to reverse into drive. Stop with brakes pedal and engage reverse gear hand brake comes on, car does not move. Have to manually release the electronic brake.

Am I doing something wrong here? Sure sometimes I select reverse and it moves backward without having to manual release the handbrake. Is it because I have the Hold assist currently on also?


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## gogs (Dec 22, 2010)

Only time I've had the hand real engage was when I opened the drivers door to check the distance to the kerb behind the car

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## noname (Aug 20, 2015)

Hold assist works only with seat belt on.
Automatic handbrake will automatically set on when you open the door while you're put from D to R.. It happens to me when I open the door box and I don't close the door, when I pass from P or N to R,the car activate the handbrake..stressful!


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## EvilTed (Feb 5, 2016)

Doesn't the handbrake automatically release when you pull away? I thought that was pretty standard these days.


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## ChadW (May 2, 2003)

Hmm trying to remember if I unbuckle the seatbelt before turning round in the seat. Sure that would turn it on.


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## noname (Aug 20, 2015)

It unlocks itself only with seat belt on.
Also, if you're driving,near to stop the car and pull off the seat belt while you're moving, handbrake will turn on as soon as you stop..


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## ChadW (May 2, 2003)

Cheers mate that solved that puzzle.


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## EvilTed (Feb 5, 2016)

So anyone who drives with their seatbelt on will not be interfered with by the handbrake, that's good.



ChadW said:


> Hmm trying to remember if I unbuckle the seatbelt before turning round in the seat. Sure that would turn it on.


Sounds like you're preparing to drive facing backwards anyway so having the handbrake permanently on might be a good idea.....


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## StevesTTS (May 16, 2015)

I have hill hold assist and thought it was the dogs nuts for a while. However that combined with stop/start interferes with the natural flow of driving and the engine too much. I now never use it and in any event I don't really need it because you cant roll back anyway with the S-tronic box.

You can control start stop with variable pressure but personally I cant stand it and turn it off all the time.


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## j14lal (Sep 23, 2015)

I have the hold assist too and I think its pretty good to have. I am really not technically but its just easy to use. With it on when I break just lift my foot off the break and car won't go anywhere, don't have to keep foot on the break to stop the car moving forward or rolling back. Also when I park up it switches the handbrake on. When I start the car I just walk it in drive or reverse and the car goes, I never touch the hand break.

My car is an stronic. Now, I did have a manual without hold assist for a couple days as a courtesy car whilst mine was getting something fixed. I just never understood it, the manual combined with that electronic hand break and the stop start did my head in! Sometimes it felt like it went on when by itself, other times I would have to flick it up, it was just weird. had a couple instances where I just wanted to drive off but couldn't, it was a major ball ache and I never understood it.

Anyways, if it counts for anything, anyone ordering a new TT, just get the hold assist option its like £90 and makes life easier.


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## jjg (Feb 14, 2010)

Have to say I think the hold assist and start/stop have been well designed and work well with the S-tronic Very intuitive with using different foot pressures.

So far have only got out of the wife's car once without setting the manual hand break&#8230;..


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## ChadW (May 2, 2003)

EvilTed said:


> So anyone who drives with their seatbelt on will not be interfered with by the handbrake, that's good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haha damn right.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

It's legal to not wear the seat belt when driving if "undergoing a manoeuvre that includes reversing". Also if pregnant - unless they have repealed that law since last I looked.

Too complicated by half if you ask me. Give me a proper handbrake and full control and less switches and motors to go wrong and cause confusion :wink:


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## jryoung (Feb 8, 2015)

I have S-Tronic, hold assist as well as the standard start-stop and Electronic handbrake.
You can control when the start-stop takes effect as well as when the hold assist takes effect with the amount of pressure on the brake, and it works really well. I never turn start-stop off. If I want that extra confidence at the pull-away, I just slip the gearbox into sport, which also keeps start-stop from engaging.


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

Does the electronic handbrake work the same when you need to start and reverse up a hill, say out of a parking spot?


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## noname (Aug 20, 2015)

electronic handbrake and hill assist are two different things..plus, there is the hill assist without the button.
-the handbrake as we known, uses only the rear brake and it can be activated manually or automatically in emergency cases (we talked about it posts above)
-the hill assist instead, will enter ONLY with seat belt ON and if we press enough the brake pedal to STOP the car..
the system works KEEPING the pressure on the brake circuit after we released the pedal so hill assist uses front and rear brakes.
in the case of a manoeuvre, will enter the HA and not the handbrake if you have the seat belt.
-last, the hill assist without that optional, if you are in a hill, pressing the brake pedal at half course will let the car going behind before you accelerate but, if you press the pedal until its end, brakes will remain still for few seconds..


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