# MFactory Helical LSD testing and review >>>



## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

I just posted this in the TT forum of vortex, so I thought maybe I should cross post it here too so more people have access to it.

I just received a box from MFACTORY with a set of their front and rear helical LSD to review and test for the community. Let me preface this by saying that I am in no way affiliated with MFactory. I'm always skeptical of new companies entering a market with some big shoes to fill, therefore when I saw a company with better pricing and claims to have comparable/better products than the existing LSDs, there were some doubts. However, you have to keep an open mind and give a "new" product a chance to prove itself. One thing you gotta give to MFactory is some respect for standing behind their products and allowing an independent unbiased testing to be performed. You won't find many companies willingly putting their product out for review when they don't have any control on the outcome.

The LSDs arrived well boxed and protected, initial look over is very promising. No forging imperfection (yes these are forged, not cast). Looks top notch and very well made. So definitely an A+ there!

I was tempted to do both at the same time, but felt that I would be doing the community a disfavor by not installing and doing initial reviewing on them individually. At least that way we can have some gauging of what to expect from each upgrade individually, and those on a budget (we all are) can pick which one to do first to benefit what they're after in their builds/car.

Watch this place for detailed installation pics and description, and short and long term review on the products.




























*FRONT*


















*REAR*


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

I took an afternoon to drop the rear factory open differential and press in the new LSD. I didn't use any press or specialty tools because I didn't plan the job that day, just got bored on Saturday and started doing things. Besides getting an outer rear cover seal and a bearing, this can be done without any specialty tools and basic stuff that you'll find in the average home garage.

*Tools used*

- 17mm hex bolt -- double 17mm nut. This is for drain and fill plug (I welded the final version for myself but the double nutted trick works... put some locktite or epoxy on there if you wish).

- M8 torx for axle bolts

- 13mm socket for diff cover bolts

- Propane torch

- House freezer and oven (wait till the wife goes food shopping)

- large axle sockets to tap bearing and diff out

Pic of the makeshift drain/fill plug tool

















*Install*

- Undo the RH axle bolts

- Drop the outer tie bars end

- Drop the axle

- Press the axle flange by using 2 long 13mm bolts at 180 deg spacing

- Press the diff cover out using the 2 factory 13mm threaded holes

- Cut a slot in the Haldex coupling bushing bracket facing the diff cover. This makes sliding the assembly straight out possible with the casing "in frame".

- Pull the assembly out

- Remove old outer flange seal

- Remove output circlip

- Press OEM diff out on the bench by heating the housing with a blow torch, and it will tap right out

- Same procedure for the bearing

- New bearing and LSD in the freezer for an hour and they both dropped right in the hot housing with a light tap.

- Pack bearing with grease

- Reinstall circlip

- Install new outer seal

- Reinstalling is reverse of removal. Then add new fluid once the side cover is sealed (it's not a bad idea to grease the cover O-ring to allow it to swell back into proper shape while the cover is out).

- The LH outer lateral links ends need to come come out as well to re-engage the axle flange and input after the work done on the other side. If overlooked, you risk damaging the axle and you will have a open rear. So don't skip on checking and fixing this. I simply rabbit-kicked the hub assembly (with lateral links disconnected) until the axle flange was fully seated.

Axle removal (RH)

























Axle flange and shaft out. Press out with long 13mm bolts bolted to contact the casing cover (place something flat as a cushion in between the bolt and cover to protect it). 









Press case cover using two threaded holes in the cover. The other mounting holes are hollow without threads.









Pic of interference on the bushing bracket and how to cut it. 

























Assembly out. 









Stock open vs LSD









Stock diff pressed out









LSD pressed in, new bearing and seal 

























Pics of the LH side after pressing the assembly back in. This must be addressed and not overlooked.


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

3 reserved


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

4 reserved


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## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

Aside from your reservations about the product (pun).. what is it supposed to do for the cost and how much is the cost?.
nb assume everyone knows the principle of a limited slip differential


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

What are they supposed to do for the car? Well, just like any LSD, they will substantially improve grip as well as the overall handling and feel of the car from the additional traction.

As for the price, they're noticeably cheaper than the other offerings (Quaife, Peloquin, etc.). If they survive the abuse and the test of time, this is a bargain. Right now I think they have a sale for $599 per LSD -- this means that if someone were to jump on the sale, you'd get a pair of LSD for the price of the leading brand. You would have to check on their website for normal MSRP and and sales/promotion price.

For example, here is an empirical evidence of the shortcomings of our open diffs. While launching my car just at wastegate pressure, the RH rear wheel which was the one with the least traction got most of the TQ and spun. With a LSD it would be the opposite, the LH wheel would get most of the traction (in proportion with the grip available on each tire on that axle). BTW, the effect of LSDs is even more beneficial in cornering, so it's not just a benefit in longitudinal motion.


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

... And some simplistic general explanations of a few type of differentials.

Standard/open diff 





Clutch type





Gear type Torsen


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

What's up with drive shaft coupling hanging out ? and would it not be more beneficial to fit the lsd to the front end considering the these cars are mainly FWD.


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

Delta4 said:


> What's up with drive shaft coupling hanging out ? and would it not be more beneficial to fit the lsd to the front end considering the these cars are mainly FWD.


I am assuming you are referring to this?


















This is what naturally happens on the LH side when pressing the diff assembly back in (the work is done on the RH side). When fully engaged and the casing cover bolted back on (RH side) the other side tend to slide out. Therefore you have to go on the LH side and get the flange/shaft fully seated again.

Yes, a front LSD IMO would be more beneficial to the platform, but each does different things to help the car overall. However, I'm fitting and testing both front and rear as mentioned and illustrated in the first post. BTW, the "mainly FWD" is something I do not agree with, it's more adapting or intelligent a system than mainly FWD, but that's another topic in itself and would be better discussed/argued in dedicated thread.


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

Part of the process then regarding fitting diffs, the ability to have better traction over a standard set up can only be a good thing even more so at a good price.


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

Got a chance today to give the car some proper trashing (windy and cold around 6c). The initial report is positive and exactly what I expected from my previous experience with AWD cars with rear LSD. You can finally lead with rear based on throttle application, and it has become totally controllable with the go pedal. Yaw angles while cornering are now totally controllable. You want the rear to step out more, give it more gas -- back off gently and it gets back in line without a fuss. The caveat is that, if you're too deliberate, you need some counter steering. I am saying this because I feel that this demands some respect from the novice driver until they learn the dynamics. Make no mistakes, at least at my power level, you can easily create too much rotation on throttle (I can spin it around in circles with the throttle now).

Going straight, I can also apply full throttle in first gear and I have full forward momentum. Before, I needed a healthy dose of throttle modulation in first gear to prevent rear wheel spin. Now the car just takes off with full throttle application, just correct with steering to keep it straight. I believe the "drift" aficionados would love this rear-only LSD. Here is a video of me going through the gears before, at the line you can see what I'm talking about with needing to back off the throttle to get moving. Now I can give all the beans and it kind of takes it with a little tail wiggling. This should help 60' times big time. 





The only non positive I can say is that the car feels noticeably tighter -- as if there is more drivetrain parasitic drag. When you lift off the throttle and let it roll while still in gear, the engine braking seems more pronounced and you can feel it being tighter. I have a feeling that some break-in period is needed before it feels less tight. New bearing was also packed in hard grease (an old habit) and I am also running a more viscous diff fluid at 75w140 vs the standard 75w90. I will report after a while if the car loosen up once broken in.

As for the MFactory rear LSD as a product, so far so good! Everything is as it should, you wouldn't know unless told that it's not the leading Helical LSD performing in the car. :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Pow3rL3ss (Dec 15, 2008)

Madmax199 said:


> Got a chance today to give the car some proper trashing (windy and cold around 6c). The initial report is positive and exactly what I expected from my previous experience with AWD cars with rear LSD. You can finally lead with rear based on throttle application, and it has become totally controllable with the go pedal. Yaw angles while cornering are now totally controllable. You want the rear to step out more, give it more gas -- back off gently and it gets back in line without a fuss. The caveat is that, if you're too deliberate, you need some counter steering. I am saying this because I feel that this demands some respect from the novice driver until they learn the dynamics. Make no mistakes, at least at my power level, you can easily create too much rotation on throttle (I can spin it around in circles with the throttle now).
> 
> Going straight, I can also apply full throttle in first gear and I have full forward momentum. Before, I needed a healthy dose of throttle modulation in first gear to prevent rear wheel spin. Now the car just takes off with full throttle application, just correct with steering to keep it straight. I believe the "drift" aficionados would love this rear-only LSD. Here is a video of me going through the gears before, at the line you can see what I'm talking about with needing to back off the throttle to get moving. Now I can give all the beans and it kind of takes it with a little tail wiggling. This should help 60' times big time.
> 
> ...


Anymore info on this?


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

I don't put a ton of mileage on the car as it's the off season (except for the weekly blast around the neighborhood to keep components moving). However, so far so good! The rear unit felt a bit tight at first, but losened up after a while. Really makes the car easy to be pointed from the rear with throttle application (obviously with a performance Haldex).

The front I haven't installed yet because my gear box need a refresh (backlash out of spec). I don't have the removable side cap to shim it. So I decided to rebuild with taller TDI gears and drop in the front LSD all at once.

I have a bunch of material analysis on the units (including the provided hardware). I will host the pics in a few and post my findings.


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## Pow3rL3ss (Dec 15, 2008)

Madmax199 said:


> I don't put a ton of mileage on the car as it's the off season (except for the weekly blast around the neighborhood to keep components moving). However, so far so good! The rear unit felt a bit tight at first, but losened up after a while. Really makes the car easy to be pointed from the rear with throttle application (obviously with a performance Haldex).
> 
> The front I haven't installed yet because my gear box need a refresh (backlash out of spec). I don't have the removable side cap to shim it. So I decided to rebuild with taller TDI gears and drop in the front LSD all at once.
> 
> I have a bunch of material analysis on the units (including the provided hardware). I will host the pics in a few and post my findings.


Thanks I was looking at going Quaife or Wavetrac, but want to see results of this


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

MFactory LSD metal composition 









For comparison's sake, here is the metal composition of a wavetrack LSD









Bolts material composition 









Thread form on the supplied hardware









Bolts are good at 4140, threads are rolled and run at ~ 32 Rc









Machining process however is not the sharpest

















A cool feature on the front LSD flange is that they are machined with provision for pressed in studs, or to use the machined threads and bolts to attach the diff into ring gear. I like this because with bolts, there is no need for nuts which keep the unit rotational mass lower and lessens the chance of harmonic vibration. The only concern with using bolts vs pressed in studs/nuts is that you have to make sure that the bolts don't back out. Heavy duty thread lock is what most use but I'm going to tack welding mine in place. Never going anywhere! 









All in all, IMO the product is up to par with industry standards. You can't beat it a that price. The provided hardware for the front is not top quality like say some ARP bolts (which I recommend to the normal user). I am going to run the supplied hardware anyway because someone has to put it through some abuse so we know they can hold up. In all honesty though, I would suggest that the end user just gets a stud/nut kit from ARP to have some peace of mind.

I give an A+ on the LSD casing -- and a B on the provided hardware.


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## Pow3rL3ss (Dec 15, 2008)

How's the lsd holding up, anymore news?


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

Pow3rL3ss said:


> How's the lsd holding up, anymore news?


It's holding up great! I actually started the front LSD install last week with a friend of mine (really a two man job without a lift). We got the box out and apart in 2 hours flat, but I didn't like the amount of life left on the clutch, so decided to build another one while in there. So stay tuned for full review of both LSD working together.










Subframe dropped









box split open


























Drilled the factory rivets heads out

















Rivets driven out and ring gear freed up









LSD with ring gear bolted and left in the freezer overnight. Bearings heated in the oven and they dropped right in

















Ring gear bolts welded in so they never back out (overkill but safety is never overdone)

















Timken diff bearing is the same as a Porsche rear wheel bearing. Cheaper and much easier to source than the actual Diff bearings that somehow cost a fortune in comparison for an identical tapered roller bearing









New Clutch

























Box buttoned up


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## Pow3rL3ss (Dec 15, 2008)

Thanks for the update, I look forward to the results


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

Did some proper trashing with the Haldex disabled to test the effect of front LSD by itself as a single variable, and then enabled the Haldex back to get a feel overall with front and rear LSD. With the Haldex disengaged, I can now power out of corners instead of hopelessly spinning and understeering like a pig. When I added the Haldex and AWD back in the mix the car became super tight and neutral around corners. You just point it and it follows and stays on whatever line you pick for it. Really amazing what was missing without the LSDs, they really transformed how the car feels and react ... I really would love for the people that discredit the Haldex AWD to get a feel for the car with a performance Haldex and Limited Slip Differentials. I am really upset I didn't do these before, real game changer and makes the TT on par with EVOs and STis which I previously had experience with. I have a track event this weekend, so I'll be able to add more inputs on what these do in track environment.


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

After taking the car to waterfest and competing, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that this is the best the car has ever been, and most of it is attributed to the LSDs. The handling is totally transformed, from tight car with a hint of terminal understeer, to total beast with massive throttle lift rotation and power oversteer at corner exit. If you didn't know, you'd think that you were driving an tuned ACD EVO with aftermarket 2-way rear LSD. It's that easy to steer with the back instead of the front. Turn-in understeer is completely gone, so you can apex late ... way late... and stand on the throttle as soon as you have it pointed. The car is now officially a true point-and-shoot AWD monster. The LSD really was the missing puzzle piece on this TT handling saga -- if anything, I may set the alignment slightly tighter because 3 other experienced drivers that took the car out all came to a consensus that it's a bit too tail happy... although I personally love it.

The aftermath of all this was 1) Race Prep class win and 2nd place 2) Fastest overall Audi/VW for the 5th time at waterfest 3) Top Pax time for me. Couldn't be more happy with the Mfactory Limited Slip Differentials.





































and beating this thing by nearly 5 sec with a National SCCA champ behind the wheel


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

A glowing recommendation, congrats on the racing success


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## ProjectMick (Sep 29, 2015)

Very positive - just another thing to add to the list although this looks like a bit of a game changer for the car.

Also Max I didn't realise you were so small!! :lol:


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## Pow3rL3ss (Dec 15, 2008)

Thanks for keeping us updated - I'll add to my ever growing list.

Congrats on the racing!


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## tomjol (Dec 17, 2015)

Not sure if I'm pleased about this report or not...it's good, but now I want to spend more money! :lol:

Really, really value your posts Max. Many thanks. I'm a more regular (though not very) poster over on ASN, great to see you popping in there now and then


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## alexgreyhead (Oct 12, 2015)

Hiya Max, I was just looking at diffs and saw this review. Would you recommend these diffs?


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

alexgreyhead said:


> Hiya Max, I was just looking at diffs and saw this review. Would you recommend these diffs?


 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Is that a question that really needs asking?!


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## alexgreyhead (Oct 12, 2015)

Haha, well, no  - cheers! 

Are they holding up ok? Any binding on full lock or other issues now you've had them a while?


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

tomjol said:


> Not sure if I'm pleased about this report or not...it's good, but now I want to spend more money! :lol:
> 
> Really, really value your posts Max. Many thanks. I'm a more regular (though not very) poster over on ASN, great to see you popping in there now and then


Thank you!


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

alexgreyhead said:


> Hiya Max, I was just looking at diffs and saw this review. Would you recommend these diffs?


I love the LSDs for how they transform the car'r handling and traction dynamics. Together they make the car feel more like the typical high performance AWD cars like the EVO or STI. My TT now can be driven exactly like I use to drive my EVO or Subaru. Brake late, way way late ==> toss it deliberately into the corner (hooligan turn in) ==> as soon as the nose it pointed, stand on the throttle with zero regards to anything ==> steer your way out of the corner with amazing bite and traction.

I would definitely recommend them!


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## alexgreyhead (Oct 12, 2015)

Madmax199 said:


> alexgreyhead said:
> 
> 
> > Hiya Max, I was just looking at diffs and saw this review. Would you recommend these diffs?
> ...


This is probably going to be the single-most expensive post I've read on TTForum (since I'm definitely set on getting a pair of these now then) [smiley=bigcry.gif]

Cheers Max


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

alexgreyhead said:


> Haha, well, no  - cheers!
> 
> Are they holding up ok? Any binding on full lock or other issues now you've had them a while?


They're holding up fine so far. I cannot speculate about how they will hold in the future, but so far so good. As you can see in the thread, I upgraded the fluid used, welded the bolts holding the ring gear, and did some metallurgy testing/comparison with one of the leading brand on the market... I would not expect them to last any less time than any other LSD.


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

.


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## alexgreyhead (Oct 12, 2015)

Cool; thank you very much chap


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2013)

alexgreyhead said:


> Cool; thank you very much chap


Do they do a diff for the DSG?


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## alexgreyhead (Oct 12, 2015)

NickG said:


> alexgreyhead said:
> 
> 
> > Cool; thank you very much chap
> ...


I don't know - I was looking at the Wavetrac one; Regal Autosport in Southampton are the UK distributor and they've told me I need the 20-tooth DSG diff for the Mk1 TT's DSG.


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## Pukmeister (Dec 27, 2017)

alexgreyhead said:


> NickG said:
> 
> 
> > alexgreyhead said:
> ...


How many beer tokens ??? :?:


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## alexgreyhead (Oct 12, 2015)

Pukmeister said:


> How many beer tokens ??? :?:


Brace yourself...

.

.

.

£1,300 or so for each diff; fitting around £900 front, £500 rear.

When I'd stopped crying down the phone, they said that if I bought front and rear diffs together they'd knock 15% off the price... [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## MFactory (Jul 7, 2013)

Yes, they are available for the DSG's.

I cannot reply to sales questions directly here though as we are not a sponsor on the forum.


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## alexgreyhead (Oct 12, 2015)

MFactory said:


> Yes, they are available for the DSG's.
> 
> I cannot reply to sales questions directly here though as we are not a sponsor on the forum.


Could you let me know your e-mail address as I'd like to get a price on a pair for Shed, please 

/Alex


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## MFactory (Jul 7, 2013)

alexgreyhead said:


> MFactory said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, they are available for the DSG's.
> ...


You can email us via our website (can't provide sales info in this thread unfortunately)


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## alexgreyhead (Oct 12, 2015)

MFactory said:


> You can email us via our website (can't provide sales info in this thread unfortunately)


Hi MFactory, I _think_ I sent an email through your website, but it all got a bit complicated - I had to create a helpdesk ticket and account to send an enquiry, so hopefully it's come through at the other end...? 

Hope to hear from you soon! 

Alex

Edit: figured it out - I was on the USA website and not MFactory Europe. I've tried again


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## MFactory (Jul 7, 2013)

For those who have been wondering, the 02M Front & Rear's are now available again


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## Bajanfastcat (Jun 14, 2019)

Has anyone tried a plated LSD...


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