# 3.2 Running Problem - Please help!



## MarkTTS (Feb 19, 2011)

Hello All,

I was wondering if you guys could help me get to the bottom of a problem I've had for years. My car is a 2004 3.2 V6 TT.

In short the problem being is occasionally on cold starts, or short journey's then a re-start the engine runs like box a spanners. It miss-fires and often cuts out, if you try and drive it it will kangaroo and sounds awful. However I will never get this problem starting if the engine is warm and the only way to remedy the problem is to hold the revs at 3-4 thousand for around 10mins until the engine is warm, then it will idle and drive fine.

This only use to happen very occasionally but now its happening more and more frequently.

VCDS only brings up the following, engine miss-fire and nothing else to help diagnosis the problem:

Chassis Type: 8N - Audi TT
Scan: 01,02,03,08,15,17,22,35,37,45,55,56,76,77

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 022-906-032-BMX.LBL
Controller: 022 906 032 DP
Component: MOTRONIC ME7.1.1G 0006
Coding: 0000133
Shop #: WSC 00137
7 Faults Found:
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
16689 - Cylinder 5: Misfire Detected
P0305 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
16687 - Cylinder 3: Misfire Detected
P0303 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
16690 - Cylinder 6: Misfire Detected
P0306 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
16685 - Cylinder 1: Misfire Detected
P0301 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
16686 - Cylinder 2: Misfire Detected
P0302 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
16688 - Cylinder 4: Misfire Detected
P0304 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 0000

A short video of its happening here:

http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i15/m ... 813733.mp4

I have just had all 6 coil packs changed free under the re-call so I now know that's not the problem.

I've had many garages look at it over the years, and because it doesn't bring up a code on VCDS specifically its never been figured out. One garage seemed to think it could be the engine chain and tensioner has stretched due to being too tight so needs a new set. But am reluctant to spend £700-900 on changing that without it being certain or more opinions based on that.

Your help, thoughts and opinions would be much appreciated.

Many thanks,

Mark


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## matt31 (Apr 4, 2011)

Hi,

You should look at the chains correction on 208 and 209 groups, measure groups on engine calculator with VCDS, third field. If correction angle is below -5, you will have to replace the chains and tensioner.


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## MarkTTS (Feb 19, 2011)

Excellent, thanks for the suggestion. Could you walk me through it a little more if you don't mind? I have only used VCDS once and that was simply clicking the scan for error codes button.


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## matt31 (Apr 4, 2011)

You click on "Select control module", then select "01-Engine"

Click on "Measure blocks", and enter groups 208 and 209. You will have to look at the third field for each group.

Regards,

Mat


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## MarkTTS (Feb 19, 2011)

I'll do that now Matt, cheers. That engine running or only ignition do you know?


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Are you saying once warm the car runs 100% power no issues at all ?


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## MarkTTS (Feb 19, 2011)

That ok or does that mean cam chain replacement?


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## MarkTTS (Feb 19, 2011)

VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.0
Friday, 27 April 2012, 16:49:44:0
Control Module Part Number: 022 906 032 DP
Component and/or Version: MOTRONIC ME7.1.1G 0006
Software Coding: 0000133
Work Shop Code: WSC 00137
5 Faults Found:
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
16685 - Cylinder 1: Misfire Detected
P0301 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
16687 - Cylinder 3: Misfire Detected
P0303 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
16690 - Cylinder 6: Misfire Detected
P0306 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
*17748 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Incor. Correlation*
P1340 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

New engine code today, any help? What does that mean, any help to the problem?


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## MarkTTS (Feb 19, 2011)

jamman said:


> Are you saying once warm the car runs 100% power no issues at all ?


If the car is already warm or had a drive I will never get the problem. It could start and run fine, but if you switch off and re-start the car without giving it a proper run around it will run like dog shit next time you start it. Also like I said, randomly if the engine is cold it can also have starting issues.

When the car is warm and the miss-firing problem has gone away there seems to be no noticeable loss of power


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Have a read through this

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.ph ... 340/004928

Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) faulty ?
Engine Speed Sensor (G28) faulty ?

Have you had any work done on the engine at all ?


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## MarkTTS (Feb 19, 2011)

Nope, other than normal servicing and the coil-packs changed the car has had no work or engine work done on it. The cars had this problem for years, now its getting worse I want to sort the problem.

So if the C/F is -5 does that mean the Chain chain and or tensioner is fine? Could it have slipped a tooth and yet the problem be intermittent? If it had slipped a tooth would it still have the -5 C/F?

Suggested next steps? Replace both cam sensors and speed sensor?

Reading up on this problem over the internet and this problem doesn't ever seem to come from a single issues loads of different ones which makes it hard to trace! I can't afford to be replacing things trail & error really.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, Could be as simple as faulty coolant temperature sensor, sending wrong info to ECU., ie, telling ECU engine is colder or hotter than it actually is, giving wrong fuel/air mixture.
Replace coolant sensor,cheap & easy.
Hoggy.


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## gogs (Dec 22, 2010)

I had a similar problem last year where if the car was hot/ warm it took ages to start, once going it was fine however once stopped it would struggle to get going, I had an engine light on and it showed up on the scan as an intermittent fault with the temp sender, I replaced this and it has been spot on since, although I did not have any of the other faults showing up on your scan, the part is inexpensive to buy and relatively easy to fit, there is a how to on the forum somewhere, it may be worth a shot


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## iktank (Aug 20, 2011)

I had same prob as posted earlier - on mine it was a stretched timing chain in conjunction with the electronic tensioner valves
Not cheap fix on mine unfortunatly


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I just don't see it being the coolant sensor with that last fault code I do think the above post is the more likely result I'm afraid mate 

Hope I'm wrong


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## MarkTTS (Feb 19, 2011)

iktank said:


> I had same prob as posted earlier - on mine it was a stretched timing chain in conjunction with the electronic tensioner valves
> Not cheap fix on mine unfortunatly


Can I be rude and ask how much it cost for you to get it done? Did you have any more signs or symptoms that pointed to this, how did you know it needed doing?

Yeah its not the coolant sensor, I did the A/C display test and the temp on the gauge ran the same as the display.

Is there any more checks I can do myself people to narrow down what this could be? Is it not worth replacing the cam or speed sensor before I go with the big work?

Thanks for all your help and suggestions so far guys


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## matt31 (Apr 4, 2011)

Hi,

-5 and -5 are limit values. And the camshaft sensor seems to say that you have an issue between the low and high engine (don't know if these are the correct words in English). 
Theory : the fact that it happens only when cold can mean that when hot, there is a dilatation of the different parts that allows the engine to work properly. When cold, there is a lag between the crank shaft and the cam shaft that brings miss fires on all the cylinders.

IMHO, you'll unfortunatelly have to replace chains and tensioner. See a good mechanic instead of Audi to perform the job, as the main part of the cost will be the labour.


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## matt31 (Apr 4, 2011)

.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi 3.2 Mark, The coolant temp sensor has 2 outputs, 1 feeds the gauge the other feeds the ECU, & its that output that could cause the hot/cold starting/running probs. Cheap & easy to replace.
Hoggy.


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## MarkTTS (Feb 19, 2011)

Hoggy said:


> Hi 3.2 Mark, The coolant temp sensor has 2 outputs, 1 feeds the gauge the other feeds the ECU, & its that output that could cause the hot/cold starting/running probs. Cheap & easy to replace.
> Hoggy.


Hi Hoggy,

Just wanted to clarify. I've done the following:






I was under the impression that the A/C display feed used the feed from the ECU and the cluster gauges used the other feed. By comparing them and if you are getting the same temp there is nothing wrong with the sensor? Correct?

Cheers


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi 3.2 Mark, 49c on CC can confirm whether its the Dashpod gauge or thermostat thats faulty, but the other output feeds the ECU & can cause the probs you have. It may be the stretched chains, but cheap & easy to replace temp sensor,just in case.
Hoggy.


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## Russ 182 (Jan 31, 2009)

Id do as Hoggy says and replace the coolant temp sensor first. About £30 from Audi for a replacemement. You'll need a bottle of G12 coolant as well as youll loose a little when replacing the sensor.


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## verecocha (Apr 14, 2010)

Had the same fault, codes and everything not 5 months ago. Has the tensioner etc changed and problem remained. Changed the temp sensor and she's been a beaut ever since. Change the temp sensor as I'd almost put money on it being that.
V


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## iktank (Aug 20, 2011)

Below is the link to my troubles

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=270820

It intermittantly when cold runs like a pig, it would not tick over steadily almost cuts out revs bouncing between 1500 and almost stalling

I first had the Camshaft adjustment valves N205 and N318 replaced, which if fixed the fault would have been cheaper than changing the timing chain and tensioner

So proceded to have the Timing Chain replaced complete with tensioner, errors still there Audi UK then recommended changing the sprocket as well

I lost the plot and this was was carried out foc, so if you do go down the rout of having the timing chain replaced change the sprocket as well.
I have listed in my other post noted above the retail prices of the parts that I had replaced I ended up only paying 30% of the materials costs

I can ask the garage for a copy of the error code print outs for you?

I had tried my temp sensor as first course of action but did not cure my problem


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## MarkTTS (Feb 19, 2011)

Thanks for all these comments guys all really helpful 

Ok well seems silly not to spend £30 or so on the coolant sensor before I go with the chains... Even though I think that is what the problem is.

Can the sensor be bought online? Or is it an Audi only part? Is it a DIY job, and if so can someone direct me to a "how do" link?

Thanks


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## MarkTTS (Feb 19, 2011)

iktank said:


> Below is the link to my troubles
> 
> viewtopic.php?f=2&t=270820
> 
> ...


Thanks. Can I ask how you managed to get it all done FOC? How much extra would it be to get the sprocket done do you know?

If you don't mind getting the codes that would be a big help, as much information to check I'm doing the right thing and not wasting money Seems like a good idea!


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## iktank (Aug 20, 2011)

Sorry reading through sound like I had all the work done FOC only the 3rd attempt, if you change a chain should always change sprocket that goes with it
Ended up paying £2000 which included refurb of my BBS RSII alloys
I would expect the timing chain, tensioner and sprockets to cost around £1400 its a full days labour (and some), but would have the 2 electronic valves replaced as well
Ring Awesome to get a quote

Sorry to derpress you - Im still crying but ma TT is runging as sweet as can be [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

It does make me think that there are to many gizmos and sensors fitted to our V6ers and not enough specific info if it starts to go pear shaped, but when she runs well all is foregiven.
Steve


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## cowboybebop (May 20, 2009)

Hi

Im having exactly the same issues as you on my 3.2

Ever since i bought it 3 years ago its caused problems.

I had all 6 coilpacks, new plugs and replaced the temp sender, but still it mis-fires, only odd occasions though

So far i have found out, it seems as if its maybe a flooding issue, for example when the car is started from cold its fine, however if i turn it off then start the engine again it seems as if it mis-fires, but it does clear after about 5 mins plus there is a smell of petrol, but again its an intermittent problem.
Let me know how you get on

Its a shame they are a lovely sounding car, but just so many problems with them

Shane


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## MarkTTS (Feb 19, 2011)

Hi Shane,

Thanks for the message. I'm going to replace the temp sensor today. What error codes are you getting?

I never get the smell of petrol when mine runs crappy, which makes me think its not a flooding issue. Every garage I have spoken to say the fact the have the "17748 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Incor. Correlation" code its almost certain that its the cam chain stretch problem.

Have had quotes ranging from £1000 to £3200! All dependant on what parts I replace, such as the sprockets makes things a lot more expensive. If no joy from the temp sensor today I need a long hard think what I want to do with the car.

Trouble is nothing for the money can touch it, hate the idea of spending more and getting less. However I get my thrills from my motorbike these days so maybe its about time to get a "sensible" car :?


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## cowboybebop (May 20, 2009)

The error code i got on all 3 occasions... was

Mis-firing on all 6 cylinders

That was from the AA, Audi and an independent garage


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## iktank (Aug 20, 2011)

I have asked the Audi dealer who did my car for a copy of the error code print outs I should get them today, once recieved I will post for you.

The list below is all the parts that I had replaced - excessive but was so fed up told them just get it sorted.
I only ended up paying 30% of the cost of the parts
. The costs next to the parts listed below is the full retail cost.

Investigate fault causing intermittant misfire & car cutting out at idle. Carried out tests.
Replaced timing chains, adjusters, sensors and sprocket as required, fault rectified
- LABOUR 1.00 £1140
- V021 103 051 C 011822/0IL SEAL 1.00 £43.55 EACH 
- V021 109 467 TENSIONER 1.00 £27.90 EACH 
- V021 109 469 GUIDE PIECE 1.00 £4.09 EACH 
- V021 109 569 SPROCKET 1.00 £36.57 EACH 
- V021 121 119 A SEALING WASHER 1.00 £3.41 EACH
- V021 253 115 GASKET 1.00 £2.49 EACH
- V022 103 483 E GASKET 1.00 £17.33 EACH
- V022 103 484 F 011469/GASKET 6.00 £4.83 EACH 
- V022 109 087 J ADJUSTER 1.00 £288.27 EACH
- V022 109 088 M ADJUSTER 1.00 £288.27 EACH 
- V022 121 011 XXP WATER PUMP 1.00 £50.00 EACH 
- V022 121 119 A SEALING WASHER 1.00 £2.88 EACH
- V022 121 119 A 011822/SEALING WASHER 1.00 £2.88 EACH 
- V022 133 237 C GASKET 1.00 £19.68 EACH
- V022 133 237 C 011822/GASKET 1.00 £19.68 EACH 
- V03H 109 465 CHAIN 1.00 £43.82 EACH
- V03H 109 503 CHAIN 1.00 £43.82 EACH
- V03H 109 507 TENSIONER 1.00 £27.90 EACH 
- V066 109 210 AA TIMINGCASE 1.00 £523.94 EACH 
- V066 109 509 A TENSIONER 1.00 £13.62 EACH 
- V066 109 513 A RAIL 1.00 £10.57 EACH 
- V066 109 514 A RAIl 1.00 £10.57 EACH 
- V066 109 570 SPROCKET 1.00 £12.03 EACH 
- V066 906 455 F VALVE 1.00 £142.32 EACH 
- V066 906 455 H VALVE 1.00 £142.89 EACH 
- VAWI 188 001 02 011824/SEAL PASTE 1.00 £42.47 EACH
- YO 176 404 A2 SEALANT 1.00 £17.40 EACH 
- YO 176 501 A1 011822/SEALANT 1.00 £14.69 EACH 
- VG 012 A8G Ml COOLANT G12++ 2.00 £8.25 EACH 
- VG 012 A8G Ml COOLANT G12++ 1.00 £8.25 EACH
- VN 013 827 1 011822/SEAL RING 1.00 £0.78 EACH 
- VN 104 883 02 011822/BOLT IIEX.HD.W 2.00 £1.41 EACH 
- VN 900 411 02 011824/0-RING 1.00 £0.78 EACH 
- VN 906 650 01 FLYWHEEL BOLT 10.00 £2.15 EACH


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## MarkTTS (Feb 19, 2011)

wow that is expensive 

If you could list up your error codes that would be amazing, thank you so much for yours and everyone's help.

Replaced the Temp Sensor, new coolant, cleaned out filter and airbox, cleaned MAF and did a throttle body reset.

Still not fixed. [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## iktank (Aug 20, 2011)

Error codes as advised by stealers

17748 P1340 001
Camshaft position / crankshaft position sensor incorrect assignment
Sporadic

17755 P1347 001
Bank 2 camshaft position / crankshaft position sensor wrong assinment

soz took so long to get these - hope u get urs sorted

Tank


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## laidbackrosco (Mar 2, 2011)

Hi 3.2mark.

It seems I'm having the same issues as you with my baby.
The only difference is the misfires are only on cylinders 3, 5 &6.

I was wondering, did you find a fix for this problem?


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## laidbackrosco (Mar 2, 2011)

Hi all. 
Just a small update which could hopefully be helpful. 
Had all my plugs & 2 coilpacks changed & this has sorted out my misfire problem.
Indy has, however, advised that the camshaft/crankshaft speed sensor warning is 
probably caused by the timing chain stretching.

I'm gonna run her for a while to see if the code comes back & will update later.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

laidbackrosco said:


> Hi all.
> Just a small update which could hopefully be helpful.
> Had all my plugs & 2 coilpacks changed & this has sorted out my misfire problem.
> Indy has, however, advised that the camshaft/crankshaft speed sensor warning is
> ...


Give the plugs and connections a clean on the right hand side of the block near the oil filler.
I had an issue with a dodgy connection, which gave an intermitant crank/camshaft related fault.
Steve


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## laidbackrosco (Mar 2, 2011)

Cheers Steve. I'll give it a try


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## miniman (Feb 4, 2007)

Haven't been on the forum for while but I have a similar problem. The car always starts first time and runs perfectly. If you switch off before the temp gauge has passed say 60 degrees on restart runs rough until temperature passes the 60 Degree mark. Strangely you don't even need to start the engine to get these symptoms. Put key in ignition turn to get dash lights on and turn off . Then start engine, misfires until 60 degrees reached then perfect. Any ideas? Obviously turning on the ignition activates something. E.g auto advance?? Which fails to reset when you turn the ignition off.


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## verecocha (Apr 14, 2010)

miniman said:


> Haven't been on the forum for while but I have a similar problem. The car always starts first time and runs perfectly. If you switch off before the temp gauge has passed say 60 degrees on restart runs rough until temperature passes the 60 Degree mark. Strangely you don't even need to start the engine to get these symptoms. Put key in ignition turn to get dash lights on and turn off . Then start engine, misfires until 60 degrees reached then perfect. Any ideas? Obviously turning on the ignition activates something. E.g auto advance?? Which fails to reset when you turn the ignition off.


There are at least three threads at the moment detailing the exact same problem with 9 users or so with the exact same issue. Audi will tell you its a stretched cam chain, I had mine changed under warranty and suffer the same issues over winter. I can't see how the car would run fine when at temp if it was the cam chain. Surely it simply wouldn't work at all if it was stretched? I've not seen the idea of cleaning the connections on the right hand side so I'll try that. But I'd advise not going and having an expensive fix undertaken when Audi Dont actually investigate the problem but refer to a memo sent out that somewhat describes the issue and advises only a cam belt change at a huge expense.


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## miniman (Feb 4, 2007)

Thanks for the advice. I concur with your views on the chain. The car runs perfectly as long as I don't switch it off until the temp has reached bout 60 degrees which seems to be the critical issue. So as you say this is more obvious in the winter. In the summer this happens within a short distance or time. In my opinion the temp link is key. Maybe it's just the oil temp of the engine helps to release something.


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## verecocha (Apr 14, 2010)

I can't help but think the same.Never have the issue in the warm weather as she warms up quick.And I haven't had the issue in weeks as I've just made sure she hits temp on the first trip,then all is absolutely fine. I'm no mechanic but it just seems to be too wider issue to be a cam chain that is said to be ridiculously reliable. There are too many people with the same issue that is resolved simply via temperature.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

There are 2 maps in the ECU..
one for cold start and one for hot start.
Im not sure what the switch over point is but if there are a few varibles that allow the switch over to take place and one of the vaiables isnt ready then maybe this could be the issue.
Steve


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## miniman (Feb 4, 2007)

Interesting. But the symptoms are the same in hot and cold weather it's just the length of time it takes the car to reach the magic temperature about 60-65 degrees. Once the car reaches that temperature you can switch it off and restart without any problems at all. So not sure how chain stretch is relevant. Plus I'm intrigued that you don't even have to start the engine. Just turning the ignition on and off creates the same conditions. The car drives like a dream apart from that.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Don't discount the start maps.
Steve


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## miniman (Feb 4, 2007)

Sorry Steve I wasn't discounting your comments. How can I check for an error in the start maps? Or get it corrected. What could have changed it ? Any ideas welcome


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

A number of stuff can cause issues but the symptoms will be over fuelling and timing.
Probably a sensor causing the symptom.
Maybe WAK is the fountain of knowledge.
Steve


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## verecocha (Apr 14, 2010)

The maps are another good shout Steve. Wouldn't know where to begin looking at those. For now I'll check your said connectors, see if that helps.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Im pretty sure that the Vee doesnt pull timing like the 1.8s so that would lead me to think that maybe overfuelling and slow lambda response could be a possible.
Steve


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## antcole (Apr 4, 2009)

I read a similar post on another forum, possibly on the VW R32 forum, about rough running and intermittent starting problems.
It turned out to be one of the camshaft position sensors had worked loose and although by just a little, it was as simple as that.
Its just my two pence worth, and may be of no use but i thought it was worth a mention.

To me it does sound like a position sensor problem, not forgetting the crank position sensor also.
To get that many missfire codes suggests that the ECU is being fed wrong information and is going crazy trying to deal with it.
The crank position sensor can cause all kinds of problems when its faulty, and even completely prevent the engine from starting.

Hope you get some sort of resolution mate, this is a good one as faults go....


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## miniman (Feb 4, 2007)

You're definitely in the right area I think!!! Are the crank position sensors easy to get to and change on the TT?


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Here are the camshaft sensor connections on the right hand side of the head..








Steve


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## miniman (Feb 4, 2007)

Thanks Steve that's a great clear photo, what's the difference in the red and black one.?

Ian


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

miniman said:


> Thanks Steve that's a great clear photo, what's the difference in the red and black one.?
> 
> Ian


Ones red and ones black.. :lol: 
Black operates intake and red operates exhaust.
Steve


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## verecocha (Apr 14, 2010)

Perfect pic, is it an easy operation to get to that point? If so I'll do it tomorrow and post results.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Bendy neck and a torch.
Steve


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## verecocha (Apr 14, 2010)

V6RUL said:


> Bendy neck and a torch.
> Steve


Ace, not have to remove much. PT so little oversized. May have to steal a child for a day. Don't tell anyone though.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

verecocha said:


> V6RUL said:
> 
> 
> > Bendy neck and a torch.
> ...


Bear in mind that I don't have a battery box, OEM induction box or inlet plenum to get round.
Steve


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## laidbackrosco (Mar 2, 2011)

Just a quick update...
Problem has just returned with my v6. This issue is definitely temperature related as it has occurred both times during the winter months.
Its currently in at my local Indy for checks. The start/run maps have been checked and signals from both cam & crank sensors are checking out ok. 
Lucky for me there is a r32 in at the moment with exactly the same issue so they are going to have a look at that first & advise me once that is done(approx 5 hrs labour £££)
He did say that there is a (sprocket) bearing on the cam chain that relies on oil pressure to switch over. I think it was the ones shown in v6rul's pic above. This sounds more like the problem to me as the oil viscosity will change due to temperature. A flush through with lower viscosity oil was suggested.

I'll keep updating for future info. Hopefully this might help others


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

The solenoids affect timing..make sure they are still working.
There are maps that switch depending if the engine is cold or when it's hot.
Steve


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## laidbackrosco (Mar 2, 2011)

Reply to TheLamb225:

Pm me your email. I'm not allowed to pm as I haven't been active enough on the forum.
Cheers


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## Cornwall (Apr 8, 2013)

Hi Guys
Sorry to jump in on this thread, but thanks to "Eadon" who spotted the thread I started today about "one For The Technicians Among You...Please" and highlighted this thread.

I have the same problem...run it for 5 mins and the following day runs all lumpy and revs surge up and down, dog rough idle, but after kangarooing down the road for 10 mins its fine. Following day its fine but this only happens when you start it but don't get it to temp fully.

This has only happened 3/4 times in the last 10 months but recently I left it a few days and it happened again even tho' it had run perfectly the previous day.

Coil packs have been changed, coolant sensor has been changed but there is mention of the crankshaft sensor. It would seem that some of us have the same problem and it just manifests it differently. I don't believe its cam chain stretch but I'm willing to try camshaft sensors.

Did anyone get to the bottom of this.

Did anyone get to


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## Tritium (Apr 25, 2011)

I can't say its the definitive answer, but a friend had similar issues with his v6. Had all sorts of rather expensive work done to it including timing chains and cam adjusters to no avail. In the end it turned out to be a poor quality temperature sender that had been done by a garage ( saying it was a genuine OEM part) as part of a service.

The upshot? Check the engine water temperature sender - yours may be faulty. Get a scan with VCDS done to see what codes pop up as well. Don't fall into the trap my mate did!

Hope this helps.

[EDIT: just read your own thread and the fact that you used a green audi sender. FWTW i would still think temperature, coilpacks or oxygen sensors before you go too wild on crank sensor. In reverse logic. Have a look at the Ross tech site and look at any crank related codes to look for if thats your gut feeling.

Brian


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## Cornwall (Apr 8, 2013)

Brian,

I would like to think that it is the coolant sender unit, but it was replaced 9k miles ago in November last year. OEM from Audi Plymouth.

But I suspect I may have to try another. One thing I have noticed is the large cooling fan is not working at all, the air-con one does in fact it runs on sometimes when its hot and I switch off. I don't suppose that will be linked, I know, I'm clutching at straws here.

But I really appreciate your comments guys. I'll get there in the end.


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## blue3.2 (Mar 20, 2014)

has anyone ever gotten to the end of this problem?
It seems very specific and is not a 'normal' misfire.

Turn the ignition on with a cold car - start the car - car runs perfectly
Turn the ignition on with a hot car - start the car - car runs perfectly
Turn the ignition on with a car that did not previously run up to temp - start the car - car misfires heavily.
Turn the ignition on with a cold car - Turn the ignition on a second time - start the car - car misfires heavily.

I have had my car scanned with vagcom and the cam chain is within the tolerances listed.

From a few google searches this seems to be quite widespread, with people pointing fingers to the camchain.
However, there are several reports of people having the cam chain changed, and the problem still being present.

It would be great to know if anyone has ever fixed it!

look forward to hearing some positive answers... ( I hope!)

Cheers.


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## blue3.2 (Mar 20, 2014)

spoke to my mechanic today and he has found that the camshaft position sensor gives a reading when the engine is running smoothly, but when then engine is miss firing it is not giving a reading at all.

this has been replaced today... So I guess I will find out in the morning.

fingers crossed!


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Good luck.
It seems there are quite a few sensors on the TT that can cause issues.
Stev


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## Cornwall (Apr 8, 2013)

Hi "blue32"

did the camshaft position sensor solve your problem. If so which one did you replace the black or red.

Mine hasn't misbehaved for a while, which points me to something like this, a sensor breaking down occasionally or when put under a cold stop start situation.


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## Cornwall (Apr 8, 2013)

Finally bit the bullet today, when for no apparent reason when I started it this morning it ran lumpy again.

As I was dropping the wife's car in for MOT, I asked if I could spend 5 mins on their diagnostic to see what codes might have been hiding that my code reader didn't register.

True to form we stuck it on and nothing registered, and of course its running sweet as a nut now its warm. Anyway later on I went back with the present Mrs Wife to pick her car up, and as I came out to come home it started running lumpy and the young mechanic heard it, ran for the reader and plugged it in, and sure enough there it was "camshaft sensor" and mis-fire on 6 pots.

When he checked the sensor, the screw that holds it in was loose and it was hanging out virtually. Covered in carbon etc he cleaned it up, put back in cleared all codes now we'll wait and see.

The thing that's been bugging me is, every 1500- 2000 miles it would throw an EML. (P0420 High Emissions Bank 1), but there would be no effect on the way the car was running, it could happen on the motorway or around town. I'd clear it and all was fine. I put it down to a dodgy Lambda Sensor.!! Obviously related but I was looking in the wrong dept. It pays to have VAG COM or Lites to do the job properly. Its time to invest.


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## chivvyp (Jun 20, 2014)

blue3.2 said:


> Turn the ignition on with a cold car - start the car - car runs perfectly
> Turn the ignition on with a hot car - start the car - car runs perfectly
> Turn the ignition on with a car that did not previously run up to temp - start the car - car misfires heavily.
> Turn the ignition on with a cold car - Turn the ignition on a second time - start the car - car misfires heavily.


I've got exactly the same issue on my 05 3.2. Fault codes have diagnosed a stretched timing chain.

Can any of the previous posters report on how their issue was fixed in the end?

Pete


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

probably replace timing chains.
Steve


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## chivvyp (Jun 20, 2014)

Yeah, it would just be nice to get some confirmation that this will actually fix the problem before I lay out £2k. :?

Pete


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## chivvyp (Jun 20, 2014)

I ran the vcds test on blocks 208 and 209

Seems to be within tolerances -3.0 and -4.0 so I guess the chain isn't stretched.

pete


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## Veneeringman (Aug 19, 2014)

Didn't you say something in an earlier post about fault codes indicating a stretched timing chain ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## F0X1E (Oct 10, 2014)

I'm a complete noob here but trying to do some research before my first TT purchase and read about this earlier....viewtopic.php?f=2&t=224222&p=2073422#p2073422

I just thought I would try a little input on a fix that could be simple. Sorry if I'm way out of my depth.


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## chivvyp (Jun 20, 2014)

Veneeringman said:


> Didn't you say something in an earlier post about fault codes indicating a stretched timing chain ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's what I was told but the figures above seem to indicate that that isn't the case.

Regards

Pete


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## chivvyp (Jun 20, 2014)

F0X1E said:


> I'm a complete noob here but trying to do some research before my first TT purchase and read about this earlier....viewtopic.php?f=2&t=224222&p=2073422#p2073422
> 
> I just thought I would try a little input on a fix that could be simple. Sorry if I'm way out of my depth.


Thanks, I don't think that the symptoms described in the post are the same as I have (I only have an issue with a restart after the engine has been switched off before getting up to temp - no matter how long the delay) but I'll certainly give the ball a wiggle at the weekend.

Pete


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## F0X1E (Oct 10, 2014)

chivvyp said:


> F0X1E said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a complete noob here but trying to do some research before my first TT purchase and read about this earlier....viewtopic.php?f=2&t=224222&p=2073422#p2073422
> ...


I usually get the missus to check mine... :wink:


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## chivvyp (Jun 20, 2014)

Just had as quick look at it in my lunchbreak.

It's moving quite freely although it does need a bit of pressure.

Pete


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## boro89 (May 26, 2018)

Hi guys

Appreciate this is an old thread - but my 3.2 is having pretty much exactly the same issue. The car felt a bit sluggish the week beforehand, and then on the first cold day of year we had the start issue. Sounded absolutely terrible, but once it warmed up she was back to her old self!

Ran the codes and it spat out the below:

16687 - Cylinder 3: Misfire Detected
P0303 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
16690 - Cylinder 6: Misfire Detected
P0306 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
16685 - Cylinder 1: Misfire Detected
P0301 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

Did anyone get to a point where they cracked what it was? I think after reading this thread i'll start with the coolant temp sensor and see if that has any impact? I'm sh*tting myself that it is chain tension [smiley=bomb.gif]

Any help at all would be brilliant!

Thanks


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## David C (Apr 15, 2013)

boro89 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Appreciate this is an old thread - but my 3.2 is having pretty much exactly the same issue. The car felt a bit sluggish the week beforehand, and then on the first cold day of year we had the start issue. Sounded absolutely terrible, but once it warmed up she was back to her old self!
> 
> ...


Starting with basics:
When were the spark plugs last replaced?


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## chivvyp (Jun 20, 2014)

Have you had a new battery recently?


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