# Quattro Possibly Saved My Life!!



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

On my drive back to Lancashire from London yesterday, i encountered many sections of the journey where the rain was unbelievable & was sure glad to have the benefit of Quattro compared to just RWD.

One section in particular on the M6 Toll, the standing water & rain on the motorway was torrent like & although i'd slowed down to under 50MPH, i hit a section where the water was standing at possibly a couple of inches & the car straight away lost all traction & was out of shape by a good few degrees. In that split second, i was convinced the car was going to spin totally out of control, but thank god everything gathered itself together & i/the car retained a totally straight road position & all was well.

When i say out of shape, if you imagine driving straight is the 06:00 on a clock face, the loss of traction caused the car to be facing between 04:50 & 05:55, so a position i thought was beyond control.

To compund this, only about 1mile further along the M6 Toll, a 5 Series Touring had obviously met the same fait but with considerably worse results, as it had gone off the tarmac to the left, hit the arnco off the hard shoulder & ripped both the offside doors clean off his car. Looks like he was OK as a Police RR was attending to the scene & the driver appeared to be in the back of the patrol car, however his car is most certainly a write-off.

Will never thankfully know if this save was totally down to the Quattro system etc. but i'm sure glad i didn't meet the same scenario in the M5, as i feel the reuslt could/would have been alot worse.


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## J55TTC (Apr 25, 2005)

Sounds like a really frightening moment.

Glad all is OK.


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## steveh (Jan 14, 2004)

I had a similar experience on Thursday. Driving home from Truro on Thursday on the A38 I hit a patch of torrential rain - it was so heavy that you could literally only see about 40 feet ahead and there was lots of standing water. I had several buttock clenching moments when the steering went very light and, at the same time, the back end of the Jag stepped slightly to one side and this was at around 40mph (probably less but I wasn't looking at the speedo). At this point I suddenly became aware of a large white object rapidly filling my mirrors as a 'Thrifty' rental van came hairing up behind me. I let him past and watched him disappear into the distance. I really expected him to go off the road at any second or to find him buried in the Armco a few miles up the road.

Anyway, as this was all happening all I could think about was how much I missed quattro.


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## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

Glad to hear you got through it safely Paul. Was the ESP on or off?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

NaughTTy said:


> Glad to hear you got through it safely Paul. Was the ESP on or off?


Cheers. ESP was fully on as no doubt that played its part.

I'll save driving with it off until i can try it out properly on the track.


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

Obviously driving too fast for the conditions then :?


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

jonah said:


> Obviously driving to fast for the conditions then :?


Driving to where? I'm not sure I've been there...


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> jonah said:
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> > Obviously driving to fast for the conditions then :?
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Smart arse :wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jonah said:


> Obviously driving too fast for the conditions then :?


Were you behind me?? Guess you must have been to judge i was driving too fast for the conditions :? .

It had been raining hard but was not raining at the point i hit the torrent of water, however the spray on the motorway led to me not being able to identify the torrent of water from the general surface water due to the spray decreasing visibilty.

I was at worst cruising at a judged safe speed & a handful of vehicles were/had been passing me, hence the spray decreasing my visibilty briefly. You'll know that the last thing you do when hitting standing water or when aquaplaning is hit the brakes so i'm happy that my judgement of the conditions were fine.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Big tyres do not like standing water. 255 section tyres will plane. A white van on 185s would probably not.

ESP or electronic systems will pay a bigger part than quattro in those types of incidents.

If you are aquaplaning generally all four wheels are off the road surface, so I dont think quattro will make much difference at all, whereas the clever individual wheel braking and ecu retardation of ESP will act far more effectively to reign in your speed and get things straight.

Unless you are thinking that only the 2 driven wheels on an FWD or RWD would aquaplane if they hit standing water.

If you lost it in standing water and had a big shunt, i think you would find that the Police might say you were driving too fast for the conditions, especially if there were severe weather reports and standing water warnings out, as there were this week.

Glad you were OK tho. Take it easy.


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> if you imagine driving straight is the 06:00 on a clock face


Were you reversing? :wink:

I reckon 99 people out of 100 would of said 12 o'clock. That would of saved me twisting my head in all sorts of positions to work out what position you got yourself into :lol:


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## V6 TT (Sep 24, 2002)

...scary moment for sure! My old CaymanS failed miserably in similar cicumstances back in March, not much fun spinning numerous times hitting the armco on every revolution I can tell thee!! Ultra low profie wide ass tyres, RWD and deep standing water don't mix apparently, me new Porker stays in the garage when it hacks it dow these days, lesson learnt.

Take care

D


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

We drove back from Calais yesterday and it was without doubt the worst condtions that I have ever driven in . Average speed back from Ashford to Wallsend 45mph :?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> Big tyres do not like standing water. 255 section tyres will plane. A white van on 185s would probably not.
> 
> ESP or electronic systems will pay a bigger part than quattro in those types of incidents.
> 
> ...


Gary, that's a good point & being non mechanical i don't know exactly what assisted in gathering the car together & i hope my input helped, i just feel in the M5 the outcome would have been very different. The reason i feel Quattro must have played a big part is just how the car snapped back into shape with no real drama or a counter drift, so all 4 wheels had lost traction, some input on the wheel from me (plus other electronic stuff no doubt), then all of a sudden the front gripped & thus pulled the rear back into line with no drama. I was of course $hitting myself at the time 

As for the police, it's a tricky one as the limited visibilty was due to spray & with a good few cars passing me with the same limited visibility, i feel if i was not carrying some pace, they could/would have ploughed into the back of me. I'm comfortable i'd slowed more than enough for the conditions but had no idea i was about to drive through a river


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Widget said:


> W7 PMC said:
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> > if you imagine driving straight is the 06:00 on a clock face
> ...


I did think that, but thought the timings i used better described the full angle of the car


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

love you stories


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## sandhua1978 (Sep 11, 2006)

Scary thought was yday after reading this story and coming down the M1 yday evening about to join the m25, saw the exactly the same thing happen to a pick up truck. I was in the middle lane when it happenend... luckily looked like he did no damage and most following managed to avoid though it did set the old ticker racing when you see the car at a 45 degrees angle next to you!

Was scary viewing in the rear view mirror as you could see most where having to slam breaks on...


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> garyc said:
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> 
> > Big tyres do not like standing water. 255 section tyres will plane. A white van on 185s would probably not.
> ...


Main thing is you lived to tell Paul. Not aimed at you, but I do worry when I sense too many folks complacency that 4WD is a universal panacea for wet road driving hazzards. "thaks god for quattro etc"

I am quite happy to be in an FWD rental Passat with soft suspension skinny tyres and ESP on days like these.

Loads of standing water about - drains can't cope - so take it easy out there. Fortunately our cars to cosset and take good care of us with their various safety systems. But caution is still best safety device.

Just off up M4 in a monsoon.... :roll:


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> jonah said:
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> > Obviously driving too fast for the conditions then :?
> ...


I don't have to be behind you to know that you were driving too fast for the conditions, the fact that you lost control of the car due to excessive water says you were :? 
And as you say the spray on the motorway led you not to being able to read the road conditions also says you were driving to fast :roll:

Just because you were driving slower than others isn't an excuse.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

caney said:


> love you stories


Love you too Caney. :-*



jonah said:


> I don't have to be behind you to know that you were driving too fast for the conditions, the fact that you lost control of the car due to excessive water says you were :?
> And as you say the spray on the motorway led you not to being able to read the road conditions also says you were driving to fast :roll:
> 
> Just because you were driving slower than others isn't an excuse.


...and the 'blindingly sanctimonious' award goes to....


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

....I think Paul's point was that we all have our driving "OMG!!!" moments, and that was one of his.


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> caney said:
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> 
> > love you stories
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Not really just a fact, but I'm sure he wont be selling his car because he can't drive it in the wet


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

jonah said:


> kmpowell said:
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Not fact, just moral provocation. Standing water is not a constant, and netiher are different cars' performance, tyres and aerodynamics.

How do you know what caused the car to twitch and lose it? What's to say other cars that went though the standing water without trouble weren't going the same speed as Paul?

To say a car is "going too fast for the condidtions" is just bollocks. Weather conditions can change quickly and standing water can appear all of a sudden - we've all been there.


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> jonah said:
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> > kmpowell said:
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Quote:How do you know what caused the car to twitch and lose it? What's to say other cars that went though the standing water without trouble weren't going the same speed as Paul?

What difference does that make :?

Quote:To say a car is "going too fast for the condidtions" is just bollocks. Weather conditions can change quickly and standing water can appear all of a sudden - we've all been there

lol well normally only after very heavy rain :roll: and it appears even quicker if you are driving too fast for the conditions :?

Lets not get this out of proportion and yes we've all be there but to try and justify that speed wasn't an issue is pure bollocks!


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## 225sTTeve (Jan 13, 2006)

W7 PMC said:


> i feel if i was not carrying some pace, they could/would have ploughed into the back of me.


Had exactly the same thought when driving through France at Christmas across the Pont De Normandie - 160 foot above the river with wind and rain coming in at all angles. I really couldn't see more than a few feet in front of me and thought if I slow down any more somebody will rear end me for sure.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

225sTTeve said:


> W7 PMC said:
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> > i feel if i was not carrying some pace, they could/would have ploughed into the back of me.
> ...


It was bad enough last week in sunshine


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

wallsendmag said:


> 225sTTeve said:
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Dirty French :lol:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jonah said:


> kmpowell said:
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Hardly want this to turn into a battle, but i doubt my speed made any real difference as the result would likely have happened at 30/40/50/60 or 70MPG, although at the much lower speeds i'm bound to have been rear ended.

I'd hit standing water on other sections of my journey & just had the steering go a little light but nothing scary or testing. This particluar section/moment took me by surprise & no doubt the same applied to other drivers going faster than me. I was on an uphill section & the visability dropped very quickly as the cars in-front of me hit the standing water that most (including myself) had not seen. If i'd just slammed on my brakes as soon as i realised what was just ahead, i'd have surely ended up in the metalwork.

Not trying to defend myself by saying i was driving perfectly at any point preceding & during this, however i had judged the conditions up to that point & the reason fro posting in the 1st place was my delight at the way the car handled this situation & the combination of Quattro & the other electronic gizmos no doubt payed a huge part in me not coming a cropper, as per the 5 Series Touring.

That said, how can anyone say I was going too fast without being on the same stretch of road at the same time & behind me. If i'd caused this or thought my speed was a major factor, i'd be the 1st to admit it, however i don't think my speed made any difference to what/why this happened.


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

Which tyres does the RS4 have ? I must admit i keep going back to GSD3's as IMO their wet weather and in particular standing water performance is outstanding, even if they do give a little away in the dry, also handy for me as i have no TC


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## GW1970 (Jul 4, 2005)

W7 PMC said:


> jonah said:
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> > kmpowell said:
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I beg to differ - Speed is a factor. Tyres can cope with standing water better at low speeds than at higher speeds. There are lots of other factors too - tyre width, wear, pressure, how the water sits, amount of water, driver input or lack of etc


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## Molehall (Jan 8, 2003)

GW1970 said:


> W7 PMC said:
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I used to be a flying instructor. My flying mentor used to say that,

"The superior pilot uses his superior knowledge to avoid getting into situations where he needs to use his superior skills".

Does this apply to driving?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

GW1970 said:


> W7 PMC said:
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Very true & i never said in general speed would not be a factor, just in this situation, unless i'd been doing 10MPH on the M6 Toll. Cars were approaching me at well over 70MPH, the decision to maintain a sensible speed for the perceived conditions (up to the point of the standing water) was probably the right thing to do.

Either way i just love the debates on this forum.

Tyres are Pirelli P-Zero Rossos & are almost brand new & the tyre pressures are spot on.


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

kmpowell said:


> caney said:
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lol where's a "r" when you need one!


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Paul,

I was reading this month's Car magazine last night. It may give you a deja vu if you read it.

One of the editorial columns (J. Walton?) describes a similar incident to yours, except that he was in a GT3 with his 11 year old daughter in car, and that they ended up upside down in the trees having left the M way after hitting standing water. Saved by the GT3 roll cage.

It would have been easy to go on about the GT3 running cup tyres not best suited to streaming conditions etc, but upshot is that is happened suddenly and without warning.

And it can happen to anyone running a sporty car with big summer tyres. They just do not like standing water.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> Paul,
> 
> I was reading this month's Car magazine last night. It may give you a deja vu if you read it.
> 
> ...


Do Audi do a roll cage for the RS4 

You just never know what's around the corner. Agree Cup tyres would be a tad tricky through torrents of water & the back end on a GT3 must go very light in such conditions, but so glad for any/all safety devices that can save us.


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## aidb (Mar 19, 2003)

I remember that Jeremy Clarkson told of a similar experience on Top Gear a while ago. (Hit standing water on a road.) He said Quattro saved HIM that day.

Anyone else remember this? 

Glad you were okay Paul.


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## Molehall (Jan 8, 2003)

aidb said:


> I remember that Jeremy Clarkson told of a similar experience on Top Gear a while ago. (Hit standing water on a road.) He said Quattro saved HIM that day.
> 
> Anyone else remember this?
> 
> Glad you were okay Paul.


Jeremy Clarkson is one of the few drivers that actually needs Quattro.


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## DXN (May 18, 2002)

not quite as glamourous, but heading home yesterday from work minding my own buisness (in the rain) hit some water tracking across the road at a top of a hill (therefor blind to me) and the car went VERY sideways and very suddenly. The dash lit up and a bit of reaction steering and on I went. Not Quattro but the ESP sytem is what I think done the buisness for me.


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