# Electric maths and smart meters



## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

The Uk I believe is working on a ban of all ice new car sales by 2040 was it ?
A lot of revenue comes from petrol and diesel fuel sales.
Diesel for home heating is the same thing as wot goes in cars, just a different colour (different price too  )
Smart meters ,electricity are being offered all over the UK,voluntary for now.

They can monitor all sorts of things cough.. even dedicated supply points or "unusual power draws"

Ireland has commited to banning all ice new car sales by 2030
Ireland also gets mucho cash from road fuel sales.
Ireland is introducing compulsory smart electricity meters starting next year "Itll save you money" !

I see a mathematical answer something along the lines of "road vehicle electricity tax has gone up by 1p a KW in this years budget" (at first) 
Ive allways had a suspicious nature


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

So you've worked out that the government has to make a certain amount of money through tax and if one revenue stream ends they'll need to open up another?

I'm pretty sure this is a given, isn't it? Were you hoping we'd suddenly all save a load of tax, whilst miraculously the government managed fine with less money?


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## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

Its not so much that , its the "Hello morons, how are you today"
Electric cars are much cheaper to run.. buy now! We cant understand why sales are so low..wheres your civic responsibility.
_worry not about your govt losing road tax or fuel tax weel screw you later_
Smart meters are amazing.. dont miss out, monitor your consumption 
_we can too..day by day shhh and we can also ensure any consumption commensurate with car charging that isnt monitored thru an officially installed charging point can be detected.. wouldnt want you evading your transport electricity tax.
If such a thing is ever introduced tee hee_
oh btw these smart meters that save you money you have to pay to install them.. ,weve been told its only 5 per month for the first 2 years on the leccy bill..we never had it so good.
Big bubba is watching you.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

You've invented a conspiracy then proudly announced that you've seen right through it.

Electric cars are cheaper to tax and run because the government want us to move away from IC. It's common sense that once electric is the standard power source, the incentives will no longer be needed. The idea is that by adopting early, you get to save money for a few years, that's all. No one is trying to trick us into thinking it will last forever.

Oh, and the smart meters being rolled out at the moment won't be able to identify what is consuming the electricity. They just know how much and when. They could make assumptions, of course, but I suspect it would take more than an assumption to work out whether or not to charge additional tax.

That being said, I accept I may have missed the point you were making - it would be a lot easier to read your posts if you didn't write them like it's a screenplay with multiple characters talking.


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## ashfinlayson (Oct 26, 2013)

This thread seams pointless.. smart meters aren't any cheaper, thats a myth. The only benefit to smart meters is that you have the ability to see what you are using without going outside with your meter box key. vehicle tax for electric cars will eventually be the same as what we're paying for petrol and diesel cars, it's just their way to get folk to move from one fuel to another.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

ashfinlayson said:


> This thread seams pointless.. smart meters aren't any cheaper, thats a myth. The only benefit to smart meters is that you have the ability to see what you are using without going outside with your meter box key.


Well, the difference between smart and dumb meters is that dumb ones know how much energy was consumed between two dates, while smart ones know _when exactly_ the energy was consumed. In theory this could create savings if energy companies use tariffs which vary throughout the day - you could save money if you're able to shift some consumption to cheaper times.

The idea being that the energy companies benefit from less 'peaky' demand, and we benefit from a reduction in our bills. However, energy companies are generally a bunch of crooks, so the reality is more likely to be benefits for them and no reduction in our bills. Unless of course the government forces them, but with a government that's convinced capitalism and competition removes the need for regulation, I wouldn't bet on that.


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> Oh, and the smart meters being rolled out at the moment won't be able to identify what is consuming the electricity. They just know how much and when. They could make assumptions, of course, but I suspect it would take more than an assumption to work out whether or not to charge additional tax.


Smart meters can have a firmware upgrade just like a computer or mobile phone.



> The idea being that the energy companies benefit from less 'peaky' demand, and we benefit from a reduction in our bills.


No Spandex, the power companies will increase the number and cost of tariffs and consumers will pay more not less.

Anyone who had a free car charging point installed should be aware that all data from that charging point is fed back to the installer and then on to the government.

The intention is to control when you use energy and how much, it won`t effect the wealthy but if you have a need to recharge your car in a peak period you will certainly pay heavily for that charge, the Germans though are burning more coal not less to ensure there is adequate base load when required.

Here is our backup power Spandex, gas probably from Russia, hopefully the UK will soon have it`s own fracked gas to use as base load instead of burning the worlds forests.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Someone put 'smart meter' in a thread title and triggered The BobBot... everyone brace yourselves for the spam avalanche.


bobclive22 said:


> Smart meters can have a firmware upgrade just like a computer or mobile phone.


Are they going to download the hardware needed too? :lol: 


bobclive22 said:


> No Spandex, the power companies will increase the number and cost of tariffs and consumers will pay more not less.


Dusted off the old crystal ball, eh? BobBot, just to help out people who may not have read your other posts, perhaps you could preface your statements with "I'm guessing, but I believe that..." so they don't accidentally think you're stating facts.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

I missed this little gem:


bobclive22 said:


> Anyone who had a free car charging point installed should be aware that all data from that charging point is fed back to the installer and then on to the government.


It's not entirely clear what 'free car charging points' you're referring to, but the only free ones I'm aware of are free specifically because they're part of trials, where the data is used for research (which seems pretty logical to me, given that EVs are a fairly new phenomenon and people's charging habits are going to be massively important, given the infrastructure challenges).

So, are you just helpfully telling people who actively signed up to share their data that their data is being shared? Or has Sherlock Bob discovered/invented a conspiracy?


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> Someone put 'smart meter' in a thread title and triggered The BobBot... everyone brace yourselves for the spam avalanche.
> 
> bobclive22 wrote:
> Smart meters can have a firmware upgrade just like a computer or mobile phone.
> ...


*A firmware update *is a software program that can be used to update the firmware in these devices. For example, *a user could download a firmware update for a network router that enhances its capabilities *or fixes an issue. Firmware updates are available from hardware manufacturers.2 Oct 2017

http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/ ... he-uk.html

"Smart meters also offer the possibility for more flexible energy tariffs in the future - such as improved 'time-of-day tariffs' offering cheaper rates at off-peak times to smooth out national energy use through the day."

But the corollary of "offering cheaper rates at off-peak times" *is of course, "offering more expensive rates at peak times"*. That offer is not attractive if you're elderly and need heat when you're cold, or if you're a working family with children that need to be fed and showered before school in the midwinter - peak time.

https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpre ... rt-meters/

Energy bills rise by 37% in three years

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/ ... rices-rise

And it`s all the fault of that nasty CO2


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Lol. Thanks for explaining what a firmware update is! :lol: :lol:


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> I missed this little gem:
> 
> bobclive22 wrote:
> Anyone who had a free car charging point installed should be aware that all data from that charging point is fed back to the installer and then on to the government.
> ...


It appears there is also a grant and yes the householder is informed of the shared data, £500 off the bill probably swung it, it goes to OLEV now, then where or will it be disconnected I don`t think.

*PART C INSTALLER DECLARATION*

I have tested the chargepoint for communication and confirm that it is 
communicating data to allow remote data collection; GPRS / BER
signal strength 
reading...................
I have made the customer aware of the usage data supply requirements;
And that [either] I, or ................................................ will collect data on 
each charging event under the required headings and return it to OLEV in an 
excel file or equivalent every 3 months as set out in Annex E of the scheme 
Guidance.
I have recorded photographic evidence of this 
chargepoint installation. With one photo showing the chargepoint serial number and/or chargepoint ID and another 
the installation site relative to the off street parking.

If the household has smart meter it will have the ability to control when and for how long a charging point will come on line.

http://www.electricnation.org.uk/about/ ... rge-point/

See where it`s going Spandex, it won`t be to the consumers benefit it never is.


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> Lol. Thanks for explaining what a firmware update is! :lol: :lol:


Glad to enlighten you.


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## Graham H (Mar 29, 2015)

Hi I don't understand all. these long words on this post but they came twice to put a smart meter in my house , sorry can't fit it no signal so now what poor old pensioner pays through the nose I expect :wink:  cheers Graham H


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bobclive22 said:


> See where it`s going Spandex, it won`t be to the consumers benefit it never is.


If you'd actually read my earlier post you'll see that I said I wouldn't be surprised if the consumer doesn't actually benefit in the end. Unlike you though, I don't pretend my opinion is a fact. Although it's pretty enlightening about how you see the world in general - as far as you're concerned if you _think_ something will happen, then it's definitely going to happen. The BobBot doesn't have opinions, he has facts.



bobclive22 said:


> Glad to enlighten you.


You'd think after once having the job of managing pushed firmware updates to millions of live consumer devices, where a cock up would make the national news, I'd have known what it was but its always good to get the mindless opinion of a builder on the subject. Thanks again. If I need you to google any other subjects you know nothing about, I'll give you a shout. :wink:


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

And by the way BobBot, unlike you, I ploughed all the way through the agreement you quoted to work out exactly what data collection requirements were involved. Let's run through a few key points:

1. This only applies to people who sign up to this particular government scheme to get a significant portion of the charging point installation costs paid for. They agree to be part of the research, so if you avoid these schemes and just buy your own charge point your charging can't be monitored.

2. The data is only collected for the first 3 years after installation (because this is about research. It doesn't have to carry on forever). After that, no data collection

3. The data has nothing to do with a smart meter and a smart meter isn't required. The OLEV don't prescribe the method by which data must be collected.


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> 2. The data is only collected for the first 3 years after installation (because this is about research. It doesn't have to carry on forever). After that, no data collection
> 
> 3. The data has nothing to do with a smart meter and a smart meter isn't required. The OLEV don't prescribe the method by which data must be collected.


(_It doesn't have to carry on forever_), the NHS were not going to share your heath records with third parties, :lol: :lol: :lol:

_The data has nothing to do with a smart meter and a smart meter isn't required._

If it`s a smart charger it might just be able to talk to a smart meter like a smart washing machine can, :idea:

Do you actually believe once this systems up and running you will be able to charge your car for the same price per KWh as using your washing machine, :? :?

Spandex, you are living in a green world, sorry I meant dream world.

*Will I pay more for energy?*

Energy firms will soon offer new "*time of use" energy deals *although it is likely that traditional tariffs will still remain.

On these tariffs, householders will pay *more for watching television, charging gadgets and running the washing machine during morning and evening "rush hours".*

This is because *smart meters transmit information about when you use most energy to suppliers, giving them the power to increase bills at busy times,* just like paying off-peak and peak time travel.

Time-of-day pricing could save money if you can programme your dishwasher or washing machine to run at night, for instance, or if you have storage heating that is switched on overnight.

But it could *potentially lead to higher prices for essential energy use, such as cooking in the evening.

It has also raised concerns that tariffs will become so confusing that customers will be left unable to compare suppliers to make sure they are on the cheapest deal. 
"If there is no time-of-day pricing, smart meters will do nothing," said Steve Thomas, professor of energy policy at Greenwich University.

"This is the only way to change people's behaviour, especially in low-income households where a higher price per unit of energy will lead them to turn things off."

Ms Maugham said: "There's a really big appetite for time-of-use tariffs; research by UCL shows one in three consumers wants an energy tariff with variable prices.

In the future, washing machines might be programmed to turn on at 6am to be ready in the morning, before the more expensive tariff comes in.

"It doesn't matter if we have more energy tariffs as long as people can clearly understand them," she said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/pers ... icity.html*


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bobclive22 said:


> (_It doesn't have to carry on forever_), the NHS were not going to share your heath records with third parties, :lol: :lol: :lol:


What has that got to do with it? Seriously BobBot, if you think you're being clever, then all I can say is you've set yourself a very low threshold.. just for future reference, merely suggesting that something is possible is not the same as showing that it's likely.



bobclive22 said:


> _The data has nothing to do with a smart meter and a smart meter isn't required._
> 
> If it`s a smart charger it might just be able to talk to a smart meter like a smart washing machine can, :idea:


But we're not talking about possibilities, are we. You posted the info about collecting data as part of the OLEV trial, then said the smart meter would talk to the charger and control when you could charge your car. You didn't mention that none of this was currently true, and you didn't mention that it had nothing to do with the trial.

Incidentally, which smart washing machine can communicate with smart meters? Or is this another classic BobBot lie?



bobclive22 said:


> Do you actually believe once this systems up and running you will be able to charge your car for the same price per KWh as using your washing machine, :? :?


I believe the energy companies won't care what we're using the electricity for, only when we use it. However, we currently pay fuel duty on diesel/petrol, and it's entirely possible that in the future when the technology is ubiquitous, we will have to pay fuel duty on electricity used to power cars. But that is very different from saying that energy companies would be allowed to charge different tariffs for different uses. I honestly believe that could never happen.



bobclive22 said:


> Spandex, you are living in a green world, sorry I meant dream world.


If you're going to try to make jokes, I think you're going to need to get your software updated.



bobclive22 said:


> Energy firms will soon offer new "*time of use" energy deals *although it is likely that traditional tariffs will still remain.
> 
> On these tariffs, householders will pay *more for watching television, charging gadgets and running the washing machine during morning and evening "rush hours".*
> 
> ...


Heh. You're not very bright, are you. That article agrees with me. What they're saying is exactly what I'm saying - that energy companies will charge based on *when* you consume electricity, *not what you use it for*. You read the bit that said "... will pay more for watching television, charging gadgets ..." and thought they meant you'll pay more because of what you're doing, but what they mean is you'll charge more to do *anything* (such as watch tv or charge a gadget) at peak times.


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## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

I honestly hadnt connected (in my head) to the bob /whinge/ smartmeter thread.
perhaps subconciously.

This was more specific to cars and electricity.
Some say :"Well of course we all realise if you buy shite electric cars while theyre still subsidised and appear cheap( pity the renault fluence(flatulence) leccy car buyers) but in the long run , you know theyll cost just a much to run when fully developed ".
Er no nowhere is that stated as end game.. perhaps if you have "nouse" street smarts,np.
Otherwise its all " we are the world " ,go whizzy or twizzy(another renault electric elephant) ,take the kids to school by leccy, you know it makes sense rodney and similar platitudes.

I was more concerned with real world.
We got on the emissions bandwagon too late here .The greens in govt partnership went C02 emissions.. 4 years later 
They copped on that diesels were just as dirty as petrol..in fact worse in many cases.
This is something even moderately intelligent folk would know.. ever seen a smokey diesel car /truck growing up?
Forget about dpf and so on.
Point is , theres a load of people who bought diesels here ,more diesels on the road than petrol in the last 7 years or so.
But now moves are afoot to redress the diesel petrol running cost balance"cos we(govt) fd up"

The diesel home heating oil running cost has been another "thing which dare not speak its name" but it is as many know one of the reasons why folks are encouraged to go paraffin..or even gas home heating.

Worry not the pure electric car is otw... 10 years earlier here.
There is no " we all know what itll cost eventually" govt advertising campaign.. no its all kiddies breathing clean air n so on .. and you the pleb bombarded with cost saving live for now even if its inconvenient rubbish.

Pure electric cars..yes the "countrywide charging stations" can have tax levied on them np.
(fast charging.. 30 minutes.. even then.. how many stations will be needed for a 30 min 90% charge..picture the queues for the next 20 years of development , its ok when only a few weirdos use pure electric..what about when all have to)

Specifically tho the home charging.. is it obvious, no, has it been signalled. no 
Will smartmeters get those "antisocial dumb sheep" who thought they could get cheap electricity for their cars till we gave em a wake up call.. sure they will


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

I'm still struggling to see your point. If someone buys an EV now, they'll benefit from no tax and lower fuel costs, yes? At some point many years from now when EVs are the norm, the tax will go up and potentially so will energy costs, yes? So how have they lost out? By the time costs go up, we'll all have to get on board the EV train anyway, so all that's happened is the early adopters will have enjoyed a few years of cheap motoring while they wait for everyone else to catch up.

So who is the dumb sheep in all this?


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## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

Spandex said:


> I'm still struggling to see your point. If someone buys an EV now, they'll benefit from no tax and lower fuel costs, yes? At some point many years from now when EVs are the norm, the tax will go up and potentially so will energy costs, yes? So how have they lost out? By the time costs go up, we'll all have to get on board the EV train anyway, so all that's happened is the early adopters will have enjoyed a few years of cheap motoring while they wait for everyone else to catch up.
> 
> So who is the dumb sheep in all this?



There is no "smoking gun" incontrovertible evidence of "my point" its just a discussion/debate.
If the salient points arent clear,however they are couched.
Nowt I can do.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

3TT3 said:


> There is no "smoking gun" incontrovertible evidence of "my point" its just a discussion/debate.


Sure, but in order to debate I'd have to understand what you're saying. I can't.

Why is it IC car owners can't just accept the fact that their cars aren't great for the environment and that they aren't going to be around forever? Instead, they get all defensive and feel obliged to attack every ***** in the EV armour they can find. IC cars don't need defending, and IC car owners don't need to justify themselves. But things are changing and sulking about it, trying to find problems, isn't going to make anything better.


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> So who is the dumb sheep in all this?


Renault Zoe is the cheapest electric car you can buy in Britain, from just *£13,995* when the £4,500 PiCG has been deducted.

That attractive price masks one key factor with the Zoe - *you have to lease the battery pack *under a separate arrangement, with prices ranging from *£49 to £110 per month depending on the length of the agreement and annual mileage.*

*RENAULT CLIO HATCHBACK 1.2 16V Expression 5dr £9469 on the road*

I`ll stick with petrol thanks.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bobclive22 said:


> > So who is the dumb sheep in all this?
> 
> 
> Renault Zoe is the cheapest electric car you can buy in Britain, from just *£13,995* when the £4,500 PiCG has been deducted.
> ...


Cool story. Thanks for sharing.


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## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

:lol: 
"Ask me if I care" 
The fluence/ flatulence as I call it leccy car , basically an electric version of my megane with a giant bum(for the batteries).
resale values are down the toilet.
The renault zoe, something like the nissan leaf was recently up as "the great white hope" .
but once you start to read between the lines , its no better.
Zoe solves the range problem!.. at xxx price..NO
Its like I dunno, quoting all mk 1 tt performance figures as the same no matter what one you own.
Smoke and mirrors.
The good zoe is the same as the poor zoe, but for the good batteries you pay a lot extra .
This is a sample of the fun to be had 
http://myrenaultzoe.com/index.php/topic ... ack-costs/


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Ok, being as succinct as possible (without using quotation marks, euphemisms, catchphrases, movie quotes or sayings), what actually is your point?


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

2016 Audi A3 Sportback e-tron

Over a full year, an average of over 70mpg should be achievable from the etron. The cost though is high.

Prices for the Sportback 1.4 turbo petrol with automatic gearbox start from *£22. 980* The e-tron model costs from *£35,930.*

The Kia Optima PHEV is a four-door plug-in hybrid saloon which returned an astonishing *176.6mpg in laboratory fuel tests.*

Actual on the road test shows the MPG is as low as *31.6.*

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/kia/kia ... term-test/


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Are you ok BobBot?


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> Incidentally, which smart washing machine can communicate with smart meters? Or is this another classic BobBot lie?


*Smart Appliances*

Smart appliances will be able to respond to signals from your energy provider to avoid using energy during times of peak demand. This is more complicated than a simple on and off switch. For instance, a smart air conditioner might extend its cycle time slightly to reduce its load on the grid; while not noticeable to you, millions of air conditioners acting the same way could significantly reduce the load on the power grid. Likewise, a smart refrigerator could defer its defrost cycle until off-peak hours, or a smart dishwasher might defer running until off-peak hours.

Of course, these smart appliances will include consumer controls to override the automated controls when needed. If you need to run your dishwasher right away, regardless of the cost of power, you'll be able to do so.

One unique type of smart "appliance" is the plug-in electric vehicle, or PEV. See the PEV Section for information on how PEVs will interact with the Smart Grid.

https://www.smartgrid.gov/the_smart_gri ... _home.html


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Yes BobBot, I understand the concept. What I'm asking is, when you said "it might just be able to talk to a smart meter like a smart washing machine can", which make/model of smart washing machine can talk to smart meters. You'll be able to do that easily, because you weren't lying.

By the way, I was at CES this year and saw a lots of smart appliances, including washing machines - I even saw a fridge with Amazon Echo built in - but I didn't see anything that talked to smart meters to allow the power companies to control when you could use them (or for any other reason, for that matter). That doesn't seem like much of a selling point, and these companies are definitely in the business of selling appliances.


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> Yes BobBot, I understand the concept. What I'm asking is, when you said "it might just be able to talk to a smart meter like a smart washing machine can", which make/model of smart washing machine can talk to smart meters. You'll be able to do that easily, because you weren't lying.


*Smart Appliances*

In your smart home, many of your appliances will be networked together, allowing you to access and operate them through your EMS. An EMS provides the ability to turn on your heater or air conditioner from work when you're about to go home or keep track of the energy use of specific appliances or equipment-like tracking the energy use of your pool pump, or seeing how much energy you saved with your new Energy Star dishwasher.

*Smart appliances will also be able to respond to signals from your energy provider to avoid using energy during times of peak demand. *This is more complicated than a simple on and off switch. For instance, a smart air conditioner might extend its cycle time slightly to reduce its load on the grid; 
Of course, these smart appliances will include consumer controls to override the automated controls when needed. If you need to run your dishwasher right away, *regardless of the cost of power, or charge your EV.* you'll be able to do so.

Spandex _(which make/model of smart washing machine can talk to smart meters)_ probably all of them currently available, it`s called progress or screwing as much cash out of the consumer as possible.

https://www.smartgrid.gov/the_smart_gri ... _home.html

You obviously believe the Gas & Leccy adds :lol: :lol: :lol:






So 11 billion has been spent to help the consumer, you Spandex to save energy. most of us are able to do that without any instruction or a smart meter, :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bobclive22 said:


> Spandex _(which make/model of smart washing machine can talk to smart meters)_ probably all of them currently available, it`s called progress or screwing as much cash out of the consumer as possible.


Lol. So, just to be clear, when you said smart washing machines *can* talk to smart meters, what you actually meant was that you've read some articles about what will be possible in the future, and were too dumb to be able to tell the difference between that and the present.

That's the problem with trying to talk to you about any of this - you just make up a load of bollocks whenever you're not sure about something (which unfortunately is most of the time). You're a liar. You think it's ok to lie because you're sure everything you say will come true eventually, but you're still just a liar.


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> Lol. So, just to be clear, when you said smart washing machines can talk to smart meters, what you actually meant was that you've read some articles about what will be possible in the future, and were too dumb to be able to tell the difference between that and the present.


Do you actually believe smart meters are installed for your benefit,

Utility companies are rapidly deploying wireless-enabled smart meters that connect to Home Area Networks (HANs), which allow them to provide load-control features to the smart appliances. 
Manufacturers are able to bring wirelessly enabled smart appliances quickly to the marketplace by integrating two key building blocks into their products - wireless technology and advanced microcontrollers.

https://www.digikey.com/en/articles/tec ... appliances

Heard of Nest, that uses *zigbee*, so does the *smart meter* and pretty much *all smart appliances.*

ZigBee makes it practical to embed wireless communications into virtually any home/building automation/metering product-from *smart meters *to lighting ballasts to climate controls.

http://www.utilityproducts.com/articles ... ation.html

https://www.engadget.com/2011/01/09/lgs ... dryer-are/

The details of connectivity and interoperability are scarce but we do know that the appliances support both WiFi and ZigBee connectivity in order to communicate with each other, *your in-home smart meter,* and with smartphones when outside of the home. So far, LG has announced four Thinq devices including a vacuum, fridge, oven, and washer and dryer



> you just make up a load of bollocks whenever you're not sure about something (which unfortunately is most of the time). You're a liar.


So you think you are in control, not for long Spandex, but hey You say I am a liar so the above is just crap in your world.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bobclive22 said:


> Heard of Nest, that uses *zigbee*


No it doesn't.


bobclive22 said:


> but hey You say I am a liar so the above is just crap in your world.


See above, chump. :wink:


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> bobclive22 wrote:
> Heard of Nest, that uses zigbee
> 
> No it doesn't.


My mistake, the rest of the post was correct.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bobclive22 said:


> My mistake, the rest of the post was correct.


But this isn't one of your conspiracy theory websites BobBot. Possible =/= probable.

And to be honest, if I was going to listen to predictions and guesswork about the future of technology, I'd ask someone who actually understood the technology. That's not you. Not even close.


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> But this isn't one of your conspiracy theory websites BobBot. Possible =/= probable.
> 
> And to be honest, if I was going to listen to predictions and guesswork about the future of technology, I'd ask someone who actually understood the technology. That's not you. Not even close.


You have a smart meter then, good luck.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bobclive22 said:


> You have a smart meter then, good luck.


What makes you think I've got a smart meter? Ironically, you're not too smart, are you...

Anyway, you've not really explained what you think is going to happen with smart meters and smart appliances yet. Just some vague doom and gloom about things controlling other things and consumers getting screwed, but no actual details. Come on, let's hear the full story. And I don't mean other people's articles about the future - I want you to tell me exactly what is going to happen that's so bad for us.


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> What makes you think I've got a smart meter? Ironically, you're not too smart, are you...


Well have you or is that a secret, I`ll come clean I don`t have one.



> Anyway, you've not really explained what you think is going to happen with smart meters and smart appliances yet. Just some vague doom and gloom about things controlling other things and consumers getting screwed, but no actual details.


https://www.cleanenergynews.co.uk/news/ ... vernment-p
https://www.cleanenergynews.co.uk/news/ ... sreporting

So 31 million electric cars will need only an extra 5 GW, mmmm, by the way having your washing machine, cloths dryer and dish washer on at night when you are asleep is safe.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Are you ignoring my question?


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> Are you ignoring my question?


What do you think is going to happen Spandex other than the cost of power going up and being told when you can use this expensive power and being cut off if you don`t pay and being spied on and being hacked.

If you don`t have a smart meter the price might go up a bit but everything else stays the same.


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> What makes you think I've got a smart meter? Ironically, you're not too smart, are you...


Probably a bit smarter than you mate, I built this some years ago it`s now up for sale again.

http://media.rightmove.co.uk/126k/12570 ... 2_0000.pdf


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bobclive22 said:


> > Are you ignoring my question?
> 
> 
> What do you think is going to happen Spandex other than the cost of power going up and being told when you can use this expensive power and being cut off if you don`t pay and being spied on and being hacked.
> ...


Being cut off if you don't pay? Wow, the future sounds unrecognisable, doesn't it... Crazy times.

What I think is going to happen isn't relevant. I'm asking you what *is* going to happen. I'm not interested in guesswork, optimism, pessimism, whatever. You're the one making claims, so lets hear them and lets see the evidence.



bobclive22 said:


> > What makes you think I've got a smart meter? Ironically, you're not too smart, are you...
> 
> 
> Probably a bit smarter than you mate, I built this some years ago it`s now up for sale again.
> http://media.rightmove.co.uk/126k/12570 ... 2_0000.pdf


Err.. Congratulations? So far you've managed to follow someone elses plans to build a little amp, and follow someone elses plans to build a house. I'm spotting a theme.

Should have built it down south where it would have actually been worth something.


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> Err.. Congratulations? So far you've managed to follow someone elses plans to build a little amp, and follow someone elses plans to build a house. I'm spotting a theme.
> 
> Should have built it down south where it would have actually been worth something.


Well Spandex, the skill is actually building the house, a 10 year old can read the plans, unlike most self builders I can do it all, brickwork, joinery, plumbing, electrics, everything accept the plastering.

May I ask what you have achieved up to the present.


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> What I think is going to happen isn't relevant. I'm asking you what is going to happen. I'm not interested in guesswork, optimism, pessimism, whatever. You're the one making claims, so lets hear them and lets see the evidence.


You will just have to wait and see, good luck. :wink:


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bobclive22 said:


> Well Spandex, the skill is actually building the house


What a coincidence! The bit you decided takes the most skill is the bit you did!

Funnily enough, I'm happy to do bricklaying, joinery, plumbing and electrics. My plastering is terrible. Unlike you though, I just consider those vaguely useful skills, not a sign of any degree of intelligence. Doing them fast takes experience, but they're hardly rocket science are they.


bobclive22 said:


> May I ask what you have achieved up to the present.


Why do you want to know BobBot? Do you feel the need to compare? Isn't that a little needy?


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> Funnily enough, I'm happy to do bricklaying, joinery, plumbing and electrics. My plastering is terrible. Unlike you though, I just consider those vaguely useful skills, not a sign of any degree of intelligence. Doing them fast takes experience, but they're hardly rocket science are they.
> 
> bobclive22 wrote:
> 
> ...


The thing is Spandex, you ridicule others probabley because of your own inadequacies.

Your reply to me on another thread,

1) I prefer the look of bricks on an old house.
b) It might look a bit odd in a terrace if my house in the middle stuck out 100mm compared to the ones either side.
iii) Being mid-terrace in a row of houses *with walls so thin you can hear your neighbours breathing, has it's benefits. I can let them heat my house for me. 
*

It appears Spandex you are still on the bottom rung of the ladder even with all your supposed superior intellect.

Did you build that crummy little extension on the back of your house. :lol:


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bobclive22 said:


> It appears Spandex you are still on the bottom rung of the ladder even with all your supposed superior intellect.
> 
> Did you build that crummy little extension on the back of your house. :lol:


Oh BobBot. You're sounding desperate now. Do you think I'm that easy to wind up? :lol:

You've posted a picture of a circuit board you soldered and an estate agents brochure for a house you built. I honestly can't wait to see what's next. Maybe next time you make a sandwich you're particularly proud of you should take a photo.


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> Oh BobBot. You're sounding desperate now. Do you think I'm that easy to wind up?


No Spandex I am not trying to wind you up just interested in what an intellectual type like yourself has actually achieved in his life so far. It appears in your case not very much.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bobclive22 said:


> > Oh BobBot. You're sounding desperate now. Do you think I'm that easy to wind up?
> 
> 
> No Spandex I am not trying to wind you up just interested in what an intellectual type like yourself has actually achieved in his life so far. It appears in your case not very much.


So when you say 'what you have achieved', what you actually mean is 'what house you bought'? That's a pretty narrow definition of 'achievement'. It's almost as if you've specifically just chosen something that you've done, then decided that's the way of judging someone. Conveniently.

I mean, I could decide that 'achievements' should really mean education, or career. I could point out that you're an uneducated man who has spent his life doing a relatively simple job that pretty much anyone can do without difficulty. A job that would bore me senseless. I could point out that i could buy a much nicer, bigger house if I lived up north, but then I wouldn't be able to work for the companies I've worked for.

But honestly I don't care about our relative achievements. If I think you're an idiot, it's because you've written idiotic things on here, not because of where you live or the job you do. You do seem care about it though, because you're trying to make yourself feel better with some pointless willy-waving competition.

I mean, seriously... an estate agents brochure? That was shameless.


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> I mean, I could decide that 'achievements' should really mean education, or career. I could point out that you're an uneducated man who has spent his life doing a relatively simple job that pretty much anyone can do without difficulty. A job that would bore me senseless. I could point out that i could buy a much nicer, bigger house if I lived up north, but then I wouldn't be able to work for the companies I've worked for.


The thing is Spandex success usually allows one to improve ones standing in life, it appears to me that you have obviously been on the bottom rung of those companies you have worked for otherwise you would surely have moved from the flea pit you at present live in to a more desirable property in a more desirable area.

I may be a fool in your eyes Spandex but I have a very pleasant life, live in a lovely home and want for nothing.
Some people no matter how intellectually superior they believe they are end up at the bottom of the pile, it appears you are one of those people.


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> I mean, seriously... an estate agents brochure? That was shameless.


One has morphed into two Spandex.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bobclive22 said:


> One has morphed into two Spandex.


Yep, that's done it. I am now officially twice as unimpressed.


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## barry_m2 (Jun 29, 2015)

[smiley=argue.gif]

:lol:


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bobclive22 said:


> The thing is Spandex success usually allows one to improve ones standing in life, it appears to me that you have obviously been on the bottom rung of those companies you have worked for otherwise you would surely have moved from the flea pit you at present live in to a more desirable property in a more desirable area.
> 
> I may be a fool in your eyes Spandex but I have a very pleasant life, live in a lovely home and want for nothing.
> Some people no matter how intellectually superior they believe they are end up at the bottom of the pile, it appears you are one of those people.


Now BobBot, I really have to stop you there. That's just not correct at all... There's no 'may' about it - you absolutely *are *a fool in my eyes. :lol:


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> Now BobBot, I really have to stop you there. That's just not correct at all... There's no 'may' about it - you absolutely are a fool in my eyes. :lol:


He who laughs last laughs longest :lol:


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bobclive22 said:


> He who laughs last laughs longest :lol:


I like my odds.


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## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> I like my odds.


When you hit rock bottom the only way is up, the odds are probably not good in your case Spandex.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bobclive22 said:


> When you hit rock bottom the only way is up, the odds are probably not good in your case Spandex.


Damn it! ... He's using the Chewbacca defense!


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