# Buying a Dog - updated Bought a Dog & few pics added



## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

I know there are other dog owners on the forum, and although I've been doing some research you may have some useful tips for me as a first time buyer.

We've been to see the pups at the breeders with the Mum, and a neighbour has another pup from the same breeder and sire which they are very happy with.

The breeder is Kennel Club accreditted, and has 2 bitches who she has one litter a year each from. Mum is 4 years old and this is her second litter I think, maybe third. She will have one more and then retire.

It's a Golden Retriever, and whilst you can't get the hips checked until they are 12 months old the father has a score of 9 and the mother 7 - which seems very good.

Anything else I should check - also any views on dogs vs bitches. There is a Dog puppy available, but the in-laws always had bitches (should have checked that out before marrying the daughter! :? )

The Breeder seems very thorough - the pups are being tattooed and chipped today so it will come complete with mods! Â£600 which seems quite a lot but ok, I'm no expert and the Breeders are probably in a Cartel anyway.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

TBH, it sounds like you've done your homework pretty well. Certainly from a buying perspective, but also start on:

Find out what food the dog is getting, but consider switching to Iams as soon as you can. Certainly switch away from Pedigree Chum or any other "wet" food...

Dog should also come with brief "insurance" which I think is free when the dog is KC regged - but arrange Pet insurance WITHOUT DELAY.

Have a think about your routine, how you are going to (carry on) house training the pup? Are you gonna allow it on the furniture? Are you gonna even allow it upstairs? All things you need to know NOW, and put into practise right away. Puppy might look cute cuddled on the sofa, but I guarantee it won't look quite so cute 4 years from now in the same position!

I have a dog and a bitch. Parents always had dogs. I'd probably get a bitch, given the choice again - but it is unneutered bitches that cause the most damage to lawns. Which is another question in itself - are you going to neuter, or put up with controlling the natural instincts of the dog / bitch instead.

Are you going to use any recognised training method for behaviour? (like clicker training) or take the dog to "dog school" to learn (with the dog) how to handle it best? or take your chances 

Enjoy it though - a very enjoyable experience. I worked out my dogs are costing me about Â£1000+ a month at the moment but I wouldn't part with them for anything


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

jampott said:


> Â£1000+ a month


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## ColDiTT (Sep 6, 2003)

Rob

Our retriever had a very long and happy life he lived until he was 15 or 16, as a pup we had him checked out by a vet who diagnosed hip dysplasia so he always walked with a bit of a waddle, a bit like me really. The vets report could have put us off as the condition was worse than normal but throughout his life it never seemed to bother him much. It was in the last few years when a bit of arthritis set in around the hip joints it slowed him down a bit.

Golden Retrievers are generally a very healthy breed and as long as they are fed and exercised correctly should live long, healthy and happy lives. 
Like most breeds, they are subject to some genetic disorders, and for some of these, health schemes organised jointly by the Kennel Club and the British Veterinary Association are in operation.

*HIP DYSPLASIA*
Golden Retrievers are subject to hip dysplasia, and a BVA/KC scheme is in operation to assess the degree of hip dysplasia a dog has. Dogs are X-rayed, and the plates are scored by a panel of specialists. This only needs to be done once in the dogs life, and it is recommended that the dog is at least 12 months of age before assessment. Each hip is assessed independently and a score is given for each hip (i.e. 8-9 = 17) Some people will quote the combined score (17), some the score for each side (8-9). The best score you can get is 0-0 (very very rare) and the worst is 53-53 (also very very rare). The average score for the breed is a cumulative score of just under 20.

*ELBOW DYSPLASIA*
This is a very new scheme that has recently been introduced and you may find some breeders have had their breeding stock checked and some not. This entails X-raying the dogs elbows, and submitting the plates to a panel of specialists for assessment. A score is given for each elbow from 0 to 3, 0 being completely clear, and 3 being badly affected.

*EYE PROBLEMS*
There are various conditions that Goldens are susceptible to, some very serious such as Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA) and Hereditary Cataract (HC). Both these conditions are sight affecting and no animal having these conditions should be bred from. There are some conditions which are not sight affecting which are also included in the test, i.e. Multifocal Retinal Dysplasia (MRD) and Post Polar Cataract (PPC).

Enjoy your dog Rob, it really is true, a dog is a mans best friend, even when you come back from the pub as p1ssed as a fart, stinking of **** theyâ€™ll be really pleased to see youâ€¦.. unlike some :wink:


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

Widget said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > Â£1000+ a month


Tim's working away during the week at the mo so they are probably having to stay at the Cardiff Hilton for Dogs 

Tim, thanks - they are on IAMS at the moment so we'll continue with that as that's what the breeder recommends.

She supplies a Clicker training booklet and there are Training courses around, but one suggestion she had which would work well is to get a Trainer to come to you - that way the whole family learn the same things so we will be consistent. Maybe back that up with a class too but the little chap is only 6 weeks old so won't be allowed out for a while yet. Retrievers are gentle natured so I don't anticipate too many problems with a dog, they moult less and as you point out don't ruin the grass.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

great news on the Iams!!

Sounds like you have it all sorted.

My dogs sre still at home, but I only see them weekends. My house now "belongs" to a mate rent free which Means the dogs get looked after. Without them I could have sold or rented the house out as I'm renting in Hatfield too. Â£1000+ represents the cost of keeping the Cardiff house running solely for their use!!


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## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

You could always consider rescuing a dog?? If you're after a specific breed then there are specific breed rescue homes.
Advantages are that you don't have to go through the toilet training stages, or (usually) the chewing-everything-I-can-with-these-new-teeth-of-mine stage.

However, there's always a risk that you'll adopt a dog with problems... however the 3 that we've had have all been great.


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

We haven't been able to see the Dad as he has gone on a sh*gging trip to Australia, but we have seen a photo but we know one of his other offspring from our dog's mothers daughters first litter.

Sounds a bit Alan Clark-ish really - having mother and daughter!


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

KevinST said:


> You could always consider rescuing a dog?? If you're after a specific breed then there are specific breed rescue homes.
> Advantages are that you don't have to go through the toilet training stages, or (usually) the chewing-everything-I-can-with-these-new-teeth-of-mine stage.
> 
> However, there's always a risk that you'll adopt a dog with problems... however the 3 that we've had have all been great.


Kevin - thanks, we had thought about a rescue retriever, but was put off by two things - 
1) we have 2 kids aged 8 & 12 so the risk albeit slight of behavioural problems was one thing. 
2) I checked a couple of rescue places and basically if you worked they wouldn't let you have one. Wife does 9 - 12 at the school 5 mins away and has cleared it with the Head that she can nip back at break to let the little feller out, we also have good neighbours who will help too - but that isn't good enough apparently.

The idea of rescuing did have appeal to us. It'll be nice for the boys to learn how to rear a puppy though.


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## Pammy (Nov 10, 2003)

If you're thinking of a Goldie - here's a really good stasrting point:

http://www.goldenretrievers.co.uk/

There is no problem with not seeing the dad - that is very common - especially in well bred litters - it means the breeder has selected the best stud to complement her bitches lines and produce healthy pups of good temperament.

Opinion varies considerably on the "best" food to feed your dog - wet food is generally considered not to be the most suited but many dried foods are also weak. Look for a complete premium dry food. Nutro has a very good reputation as does Psalters, Purina, James Wellbeloved - buts it's about what suits your dog. Some use human grade products, Nutro and Psalters, and have no additives - something sadly Iams cannot claim. Many dogs are hyper on Iams - mine included! You should however be guided by the breeder on what to feed the puppy anyway - it's not wise to change a pups diet unless you have real good resaon to do so.

tbh Â£600 for a well bred Goldie sounds very reasonable indeed. If you have seen other puppies from the same mother and see how they've grown and what their temperament is - that is a very good guide.

KC registration is not a guarantee that you have a reputable breeder. Any tom dick or harry can register their litter as lonog as the parents are also KC reg'd. There are some limitations - but it does not guarantee good practices are being adhered to.

it is worth contacting your local bred club secretary to see if they have heard of and can recommend your breeder. They are a very reiable font of knowledge and can prevent you from making a costly mistake - in emotional as well as financial terms. Look here for yours:
http://www.goldenretrievers.co.uk/mclubs/

Sorry this is a long reply and it's not intended as a lecture at all - you seem to have done your homework and are keen to do the right thing. It's so easy where puppies are concerned to let your heart rule - when it really needs to be your head if your heart is to win out long term.

hth


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## kctt (Nov 10, 2002)

sounds like you're all set! 
a puppy................. :lol: good luck . 
Resuce dogs can be very hard work but in my knowledge but any dog can get a behaviour issue. 
Best of luck...................  ..............you are brave....a  puppy


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Dogs are usually easier to manage in behavioural terms in a family unit because of a dogs natural pack tendancy to test/push the 'alpha male could I be it?' tendency, and also a greater propensity to fight with other dogs, if not castrated.

_edit: the above para. could be describing how the Portugese authorities may usfully manage some of the hooligan England supporters going their way in the forthcomng Euro 2004 tournament. :wink:_

Bitches in my experience are far more compliant and easier to train to your way of doing things. Although my last bitch - weimaraner - was a real handful, but that is more a triat of the breed. Retrievers are reknowned for being easy dogs to keep.

If you have a chance, do check out the disposition of the puppy's parents, and speak to any owners of the previous litter by the breedng pair to see how their puppies are behaving at home and amongst people.

Finally, and this to me is the key to happying dog-keeping (on both sides), plan your training program starting day one you get the dog to it's new home. An obedient dog that knows it's place, tends to be a happy and secure animal. Also it is then a pleasure for you to keep and for other people to have around.

Enjoy.


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## gg (Oct 29, 2002)

i have read these posts with great interest ... and sadness. My 12 year Golden Retriever died on Sunday. She stopped eating and I think she had decided her time had come. I took her to the vet on sunday evening - i can honestly say it was the hardest thing i have ever done. Still havent got over it. 
They are a fantastic breed and your Â£600 investment will be repaid 1000 times over. One day, I know I will have another one...


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

Thanks Pammy - I've contacted the local puppy secretary, I'm sure she is known and above board but always worth checking.

The Breeder is now concerned about whether a dog rather than a bitch would be more difficult as my wife was talking about wanting a bitch .... so my eldest son has gone to bed upset. Ho hum we'll see what happens ..


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

gg said:


> i have read these posts with great interest ... and sadness. My 12 year Golden Retriever died on Sunday. She stopped eating and I think she had decided her time had come. I took her to the vet on sunday evening - i can honestly say it was the hardest thing i have ever done. Still havent got over it.
> They are a fantastic breed and your Â£600 investment will be repaid 1000 times over. One day, I know I will have another one...


GG, sorry to hear this. The in-laws had a Golden who passed away a few years ago and she is still sadly missed. Now my kids are older (8 & 12) the timing seems right, and with the summer holidays approaching it seems like an ideal time. If the Breeder decides we can have him - she knows of a bitch available from the same sire with another breeder which she's keen we go to see I think as she thinks a bitch may be easier than a dog. With a Tyrolean Mountain Dog 3 doors away and a Goldie dog 4 doors the other way, a bitch may be harder than a dog at least twice a year! I think that Golden's have such a good nature though that dog or bitch they should be pretty amiable.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Tim,

Why bitches do more damage to the lawn?

Rob,

If you get a bitch and she stays without surgery, get ready for blood all over your house. I haven't done my bitch, but we bought a special pair of pants to contain the leakage. At least she is only in season once a year, so not so bad.

GG,

Very sad, but it does happen as the dogs only live very short lives compared to ours. So you may consider having another puppy straight away to help you a bit.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

vlastan said:


> Tim,
> 
> Why bitches do more damage to the lawn?
> 
> ...


V,

i'm told a different mix of hormones and stuff in their urine is a lot more harmful to the lawn.

Anyone care to correct me if I'm wrong?


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## Pammy (Nov 10, 2003)

The ph of the bitches urine is sightly diff so you get more staining - there are products you can add to their food to balance it. However, this can and does happen with boys too - it's more noticable with bitches as they always squat in an open space - boys will -also be big girls blouses - I have one just so!! but also go up against things - I'm sure I don't need to say any more!!

As for blood all over the house with a bitch - not necessarily so. All bitches are different - some do indeed make a mess - some are just very very clean and some have what are called dry seasons - it's the luck of the draw I'm afraid. The mother will be a guide - but not a guarantee.

The only other thing I would say is that Goldies are a very popular breed and a well bred one is a joy. Being so popular does make them tempting to unscrupulous breeders and that's where you end up wtih health and temperament problems so it is well worth while checking out any breeder before parting with money - and pref before seeing puppies. One look into those eyes and it's hard to walk away!! The fact this breeder has only used hip scored parents - and they are OK scores - bodes well. I would ask to see the certificate of the hip score though - just to be sure - it's easy to say it's been done when it might not have!!

hth


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

I don't have experience from male dogs, but my bitch definetely burns my lawn where she urines daily.

I have found in a pet shop some natural tablets that help neutralise the effect. It works well, but I have to remember to give her half a tablet a day.


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

ROFLMAO at this thread - sorry guys but Vlastan and his 'betch' :lol: ........


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

^Abi^ said:


> ROFLMAO at this thread - sorry guys but Vlastan and his 'betch' :lol: ........


yes, it is utterly hilarious - people discussing responsible dog ownership, whilst using words like "bitch" and "dog" to mean what they were intended to mean.


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

:roll:


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

vlastan said:


> I don't have experience from male dogs, but my bitch definetely burns my lawn where she urines daily.
> 
> I have found in a pet shop some natural tablets that help neutralise the effect. It works well, but I have to remember to give her half a tablet a day.


V
I've just been talking to the breeder - she recommends Bicarbonate of Soda in their drinking water to reduce the brown patches


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

R6B TT said:


> vlastan said:
> 
> 
> > I don't have experience from male dogs, but my bitch definetely burns my lawn where she urines daily.
> ...


I'll have to try that. My bitch is cover in brown patches...


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Those are liver spots Tim - been 'grooming' the local old folks home again?

As for the dog v bitch argument, we had a Black lab dog and he was the softest, stupidest thing you've ever seen.

When he died we had two Cocker Spaniel bitches and they were far more temperamental than he ever was, but like Gary says, that's more a trait of the breed than a male V female argument - Weimeraners are possibly one of the best looking breeds around, but like a lot of pedigree breeds are very highlystrung if you're not careful - they are also very keen to be top dog (even bitches) and unless you're very strong willed will easily overrule you on a regular basis. So either Gary's assertiveness on this forum is all an act, or like the rest of us, he's a big softy when it comes to pets.

Having worked on NCDL (Dog's Trust) and been to several of their rehoming centres, I can sympathise with their policies. While it may seem unfair that they won't give a dog to a 'working family', their concerns are with the wellbeing of the dogs and not your feelings. The last thing they want to do is subject a dog to more neglect (not saying this would be true in your case Rob, but you know what I'm saying). They do, however, normally have a 'history' of the dog so whether a dog could be left on its own without pining should all be documented and they would never let that dog go to a home where it was a possibility.

All in all, it seems like you've done your homework well and that you know what to look out for.

However, like everyone else says, as pack animals they need to know their place from day one. Don't let their cuteness tempt you into allowing the puppy to do things you wouldn't want a full grown dog doing - as it will be almost impossible to stop it happening later on.

Best of luck.

I just wish we could have a dog, but the hurs we both work mean that unless we had an outside kennel, it would be just too unfair on the dog.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Kell,

sorry, my comment was a joke. Helen is a brown (liver) spotted Dalmatian 

Loki (the dog) is aptly named - its the Norse God of Mischief  (brown spotted too - the dog, not the God!)


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

I figured that Tim, it was a lame attempt at humour after you saying that your bitch had brown spots.

I shall refrain from attempting humour in the future. :wink:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Having had a few of the larger breeds and a couple of mongrels, next time I get a dog (not for a few years yet) it'll be a Border Terrier. Cheeky chaps. :wink:


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

R6B TT said:


> vlastan said:
> 
> 
> > I don't have experience from male dogs, but my bitch definetely burns my lawn where she urines daily.
> ...


That's interesting.

But the next question would be, how much of it? Taking into account that she is only 5.5kgs in weight, she is tiny and can get upset stomach easily. Did he advise you on how much you dilute on what amount of water?

I think that very soon I will have to put new seeds to recover the lost lawn due to her. Not a huge problem as she is a lovely little doggy, but if I can avoid it, it will be good.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Alternatively, Nick, just stop the little bitch from pissing on your lawn in the first place!!


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

vlastan said:


> R6B TT said:
> 
> 
> > vlastan said:
> ...


V,
I'll find out how much she uses on Saturday when I visit the breeder again.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jampott said:


> R6B TT said:
> 
> 
> > vlastan said:
> ...


It's bad to upset the Ph balance in a dog's body. :? Just take it to piss elsewhere - like your neighbours lawn :wink:


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## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

You could try to train the dog only to wee in a certain place in the garden... didn't work for us though with either dog :roll:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

KevinST said:


> You could try to train the dog only to wee in a certain place in the garden... didn't work for us though with either dog :roll:


worked for me!*

*if by "train" you mean "put up a fence to keep them on the patio"


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

Thanks to all for the advice and encouragement. The deal is done and Honeybury Casanova (Jamie to his friends) will be joining us on thursday of this week!

Now, to get on with dogproofing the House and Garden. Does anyone have any bright ideas on how I can get a 6' x 6' fence panel into a TT as I think I need some new ones!

Oh, and would anyone like to see a piccy of the little feller - if so I'll try and get some hosted


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## kctt (Nov 10, 2002)

R6B TT said:


> Thanks to all for the advice and encouragement. The deal is done and Honeybury Casanova (Jamie to his friends) will be joining us on thursday of this week!
> 
> Now, to get on with dogproofing the House and Garden. Does anyone have any bright ideas on how I can get a 6' x 6' fence panel into a TT as I think I need some new ones!
> 
> Oh, and would anyone like to see a piccy of the little feller - if so I'll try and get some hosted


yes...........I am a girl afterall  (will promise (myself) not to swoon)
good luck with the fence, and if you need an chewing anti spray try tea tree in water (inappropriate chewing that is ) way cheaper than stuff you can buy and it works.........good luck


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

OK - this is the first time I've tried this, hope they don't come out too huge:


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

You've got a little chubby good looker to look after now mate. Well done.


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## t7 (Nov 2, 2002)

[smiley=sweetheart.gif]

Rob - please don't ever let my kids see him.... I'll never hear the last of it!

Now of course *I'll *be making any excuse to stop by :roll:

L


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

You'll be welcome Lou - just give us a week or two to settle him down.

See - told you I was going to see a man about a dog and that was why I couldn't make the TTOC Committee meeting today :-*


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

Awwww your puppy is soooooooo cute, I could cuddle it . What have you named it?


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

He likes cuddles! The breeder had named him Jamie, and since we haven't thought of anything better yet we'll probably stick with that!

He was the first to be born, and when the breeder called the Vet (at 4:30 am) to tell them things had started, Jamie was the vet on call - so it's kind of memorable.


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## XXMetal (Jan 20, 2004)

He is adorable.

<Cough Cough Manly voice> ...Er yes very nice


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## kctt (Nov 10, 2002)

*faint*......................looks again.......*swoon* [smiley=sweetheart.gif] [smiley=wings.gif]
having a dog that likes cuddles is great  -great stress buster - he'll be settled in no time, what a fab little fella.


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

They don't stay like that for very long  wait till he starts chewing everything and pissing on your carpet :wink:  
He does look adourable though


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

Jonah, well if he turns out like his Dad I'll have no complaints - will post a pic later

Re the carpets - yep I'm off to Costco for a bulk supply of Kitchen Rolls!

If he's like his half brother who lives around the corner he'll be clean in 3-4 weeks though.[/img]


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## ColDiTT (Sep 6, 2003)

He looks really cute Rob  Enjoy the little chappie 8) Next meeting at yours then :wink:


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## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

R6B TT said:


> Jonah, well if he turns out like his Dad I'll have no complaints - will post a pic later
> 
> Re the carpets - yep I'm off to Costco for a bulk supply of Kitchen Rolls!
> 
> If he's like his half brother who lives around the corner he'll be clean in 3-4 weeks though.[/img]


Don't forget the PooPoo Scoop :wink:


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> I worked out my dogs are costing me about Â£1000+ a month at the moment but I wouldn't part with them for anything


Good god man even my wife doesn't cost me that much.


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## L8_0RGY (Sep 12, 2003)

Jampo - what a cute looking dog - nice choice 

Â£1000 a month!!! How?


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

L8_0RGY said:


> Jampo - what a cute looking dog - nice choice
> 
> Â£1000 a month!!! How?


L8 - my dog not Jampotts - he's got Dalmations. Read the thread and you'll see how he gets to Â£1000 per month - because he's working away from home he has a mate who is living rent free but doggy minding


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## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

Rob,

Just incase of any "accidents" on carpet etc, get a bottle of "Simple Solution" - most pet shops / pet supermarkets sell it.

It's amazing stuff for getting unwanted poo / sick / urine stains and smells out of carpets.


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## dimitt (Apr 21, 2004)

Gorgeous pup mate.... congratulations on the new addition to the family..


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## uppTTnorth (Jul 5, 2003)

Me and Mr Smith (Chocolate Labrador now 17wks) have just this evening passed in puppy class, so what does he do when we come home after being good all evening, pee in the bloody kitchen, dogs dont you just love em !!!!
I would put a pic but in hopeless, lets just says hes lovely


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## marksovereign (Sep 20, 2003)

gg said:


> i have read these posts with great interest ... and sadness. My 12 year Golden Retriever died on Sunday. She stopped eating and I think she had decided her time had come. I took her to the vet on sunday evening - i can honestly say it was the hardest thing i have ever done. Still havent got over it.
> They are a fantastic breed and your Â£600 investment will be repaid 1000 times over. One day, I know I will have another one...


GG , im so sorry to hear of your loss, I had a similar situation with our 14 year old Retreiver Bitch 2 years ago - It takes a lot of courage to make that phone call, but youve got to be strong for them. It does get better I cried buckets becuase she was my mate and the love was unconditional ..... (shit i'm filling up here)

Anyway, what im trying to say I sent 2 nights after we lost her on the phone/net to the local Retreiver groups and couldnt get one fpr love nor money. Eventually I was pointed in the direction of Reteriver Rescue and I phoned them the next day - theyd just had an 11 mth old Male in who'd been neglected - I wasnt sure because I really wanted another bitch but we went to see him anyway ........... He came back with us. Hes absolutely gorgeous and 2 years later the sloghtly nervous dog we brought back is happy confident and gorgeous and probably even softer than the bitch. Moral of the story is it doesnt really matter whether dog or bitch theyre a great breed, and I like to think our last one would have approved of us rescuing her replacement.

R6 youve made a great choice enjoy...

Mark


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

Picking him up at 6:30pm tomorrow .... it's worse than a new baby as they are mobile and you know when they are coming! We took his ... well I don't know what the relationship is, same Dad but Daughter of Jamie's Mums pup out yesterday, he's 4 months and very well behaved. I've been make his bed a Cardboard box first of all as he will chew it - I've raided Sainsbury and got a Greene King IPA, Sainsbury's Brandy and Teachers whisky - will this make him an alcoholic or just me ?


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