# Judder, Shudder, Bugger!



## mpaul0055 (Oct 7, 2009)

Ay up folks.

Seem to have a wee problem with the TTS  I think it knows ive put RS bits on it and it hates me for it.. :lol: .

Car seems to judder and feel hesitant under full acceleration. In all gears, but mainly noticeable in 2nd and 3rd. 
It all seemed to start when i got some part worn tyres put on the car. The TT seemed to hate them and traction was appalling, so i went out and bought some Eagle F1 2s, which had only received very positive reviews. It got much better, but always feels a bit sketchy!

I dont think it is the tyres 100% though as it does feel more like restricted air flow in the engine. But that's me completely guessing.

As the car is not standard so i cant be bothered with the hassle of Audi so may take it to Pipewerx to look at, but was wondering if there is something i should be looking at.

Initial thoughts are disconnect maf and change plugs. Should there be anything else?


----------



## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

Are you remapped?

I'd take it back to the tuner first if it is.

If it's DSG then I'd suspect that next.

I wouldn't be shy about taking it back to Audi. It's unlikely that TTRS body parts will cock up the engine.


----------



## mpaul0055 (Oct 7, 2009)

Oh god the DSG mention.. Thats always the one that worries me..

Car is completely standard apart from the bumper and exhaust.

Audi Preston have been appalling and very unhelpful in every way, so i hold no hope with them. Id prefer pipewerx to have a look and then at least go to audi with a bit of knowledge of what is wrong.

Will it be worth checking the plugs and things?


----------



## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

Change spark plugs, I bet it's that.


----------



## Pensive666 (Jun 18, 2011)

Coilpacks? Get a mate with VAGcom to check. Seriously though you have a mk2 and you got part-worns?

Does not compute.


----------



## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

did you replace all 4 tyres?


----------



## hooting_owl (Sep 3, 2008)

is it due a haldex service? my transporter 4-motion had a similar malaise and was cured by a haldex oil/filer change.


----------



## mpaul0055 (Oct 7, 2009)

hooting_owl said:


> is it due a haldex service? my transporter 4-motion had a similar malaise and was cured by a haldex oil/filer change.


The cars only got around 16k miles on it so It shouldnt need one, but I'll add that too the list of possibilities



TTRS_500 said:


> did you replace all 4 tyres?


replaced the front two initially, that's when it all started :? Replaced the tyres within 2 days with the eagles but replaced all 4. So it has been running since then with the same tyres on all 4 corners.

The first two where part worns which I thought would do me will the rears needed replacing but was a shoddy idea.

The garage said that it could damage my diff doing that. I laughed at the time but am starting to shite one now!!



Pensive666 said:


> Coilpacks? Get a mate with VAGcom to check. Seriously though you have a mk2 and you got part-worns?
> 
> Does not compute.


Yeh that's the worrying thing, it shouldnt be getting through those consumables that easy.

Does no one think it could be the maf? Really doesn't feel like the dsg.

To clarify its not a huge jolt, it's a noticeable loss of power in short intervals. Seems to happen a couple of times in each gear when hard accelerating.

Cheers folks


----------



## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

Is your car mapped? Had the same problem twice, if it is juddering and hesitant to accelerate through the rev range it will be spark plugs.


----------



## mpaul0055 (Oct 7, 2009)

Fingers crossed its the plugs. Should I replace all four? If so can I grab them from halfords or do I have to get them from Audi?

I'll be one happy camper if it's an easy fix


----------



## kasandrich (Sep 5, 2011)

Yes replace all 4 and if anyone offers you part worn spark plugs thats not a good idea either :roll:

It makes no difference where you buy the plugs as long as they are the right ones.


----------



## mpaul0055 (Oct 7, 2009)

kasandrich said:


> Yes replace all 4 and if anyone offers you part worn spark plugs thats not a good idea either :roll:
> 
> It makes no difference where you buy the plugs as long as they are the right ones.


Lol, point taken.

Going to nip it down to a friends garage first as he said he would plug his diagnostics into the car.

Out of interest, could part worn tyres knacker a mechanical part in 2 days?


----------



## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

mpaul0055 said:


> Out of interest, could part worn tyres knacker a mechanical part in 2 days?


No.


----------



## mpaul0055 (Oct 7, 2009)

Thought as much, but ever since that mechanic said it would chew through my diffs its been at the back of my mind...

Will let you know what it was.


----------



## mpaul0055 (Oct 7, 2009)

Oil was horribly low.. Im going to hang my head in shame... The car had a service 2 months ago so just didnt think... Crikey!!

Will take her for a spin and see if thats helped... What a nobber i am..

I know TFSi engines sound really tapperty, but starting to worry a bit about how the engines sounding... Ive attached a vid


----------



## TWH (Aug 25, 2010)

I've got the same problem at the moment, it varies as to how bad it is, but there is hestitation under acceleration, normally around 3200rpm, like a little hiccup before giving it all the beans. Sometimes it develops into a full stutter all the way up the rev range, either way it's horrible.

Car's been looked at by audi recovery (audi got all worried when I mentioned what was happening and told me not to drive it and get it recovered immediately) and came up totally clean - no faults logged, nothing. I'm at a loss as to what's going on - the car is a year old, not remapped and has done 5k miles. Recently went in for it's oil service, but other than that nothing's happened to it.

Hoping to get it over to a friend at the weekend who's an audi tech so that I can take him out in it and show him what's going on.


----------



## mpaul0055 (Oct 7, 2009)

Sounds exactly like mine!

Im just about to take mine for a diagnostics check.

One thing that has alarmed me is i have just taken the engine cover off and the screws which hold the coil pack down are not in!!! Seems like someone's been under here before me!!! Would Audi techs do this under a service?

I also asked audi when they where servicing it to check for fault codes, but they reported non.


----------



## mpaul0055 (Oct 7, 2009)

Sorted folks 

Replaced the spark plugs and feels tighter than ever 

One was actually a tiny bit loose so it could of been that, but I'd picked the new plugs up after work so replaced them anyway.

Have you replaced your plugs twh?


----------



## mpaul0055 (Oct 7, 2009)

toot3954 said:


> Is your car mapped? Had the same problem twice, if it is juddering and hesitant to accelerate through the rev range it will be spark plugs.


Spot on toots, cheers fella [smiley=cheers.gif]


----------



## hope88 (Mar 25, 2011)

TWH said:


> I've got the same problem at the moment, it varies as to how bad it is, but there is hestitation under acceleration, normally around 3200rpm, like a little hiccup before giving it all the beans. Sometimes it develops into a full stutter all the way up the rev range, either way it's horrible.
> 
> Car's been looked at by audi recovery (audi got all worried when I mentioned what was happening and told me not to drive it and get it recovered immediately) and came up totally clean - no faults logged, nothing. I'm at a loss as to what's going on - the car is a year old, not remapped and has done 5k miles. Recently went in for it's oil service, but other than that nothing's happened to it.
> 
> Hoping to get it over to a friend at the weekend who's an audi tech so that I can take him out in it and show him what's going on.


Your description is exactly like what I am experiencing now! The revs will drop suddenly around 3.5k revs then shoot up again (hesitation). No faults showing either but booked into Audi next week so let's see how that goes...


----------



## mpaul0055 (Oct 7, 2009)

hope88 said:


> TWH said:
> 
> 
> > I've got the same problem at the moment, it varies as to how bad it is, but there is hestitation under acceleration, normally around 3200rpm, like a little hiccup before giving it all the beans. Sometimes it develops into a full stutter all the way up the rev range, either way it's horrible.
> ...


Have you tried changing your plugs at all? My car showed no error codes either and had the same symptoms.


----------



## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

What did your spark plugs look like when you took them out? Are they fouled and blackened around the firing end?

Mine doesn't have the two screws holding the coil pack connectors in either, I wouldn't worry about that. As long as the coil packs are properly seated you will have no issues.


----------



## mpaul0055 (Oct 7, 2009)

toot3954 said:


> What did your spark plugs look like when you took them out? Are they fouled and blackened around the firing end?
> 
> Mine doesn't have the two screws holding the coil pack connectors in either, I wouldn't worry about that. As long as the coil packs are properly seated you will have no issues.


Good to know about the screws. Was worrying it may of been a sign someones has a problem previously.

Heres a pic of the plugs. They certainly dont look clean, but to be honest im not too sure what they should look like.


----------



## hope88 (Mar 25, 2011)

Well car is off to Audi tomorrow so fingers crossed... if they said nothing is wrong I would enquire about the spark plugs...


----------



## TWH (Aug 25, 2010)

Well mine got really bad again last night - juddering the whole way through 3rd gear acceleration a lot of the time, so got Audi Assistance out again. As usual, no fault codes showing, but this time when I took him for a ride, she mis-behaved perfectly. He said that he's not seen it on the 2.0T before, but a similar thing on the 1.4T he has come across could be either a diaphragm catching in the turbo, or an injector playing up.

So the cars in the shop today and I've got an awful astra 1.4 as a replacement (not impressed but Audi CS just said they promise to keep you mobile and try to match your car - I'll see how a 1.4 astra stacks up against the TTS!). Will let you know what Camberley Audi find - hopefully they can recreate the problem as otherwise I'll get it back in a couple of days and have to keep sending it back to them until they get it to happen! I'll mention the spark plug issues if they say they couldn't find anything, but the diaphragm issue sounds to me like it fits the symptoms better as sometimes it's a brief hiccup, and sometimes stuttering all the way through the revs, so maybe the diaphragm sometimes gets caught momentarily, and sometimes keeps on catching. Who knows, just as long as I get my car back to the way it should be - so frustrating at the moment.


----------



## mpaul0055 (Oct 7, 2009)

Good luck pal.

Really sounds exactly like what was happening to myself. For £40 id replace the plugs straight away. Could save you alot of time without your car etc..

On occasions my car would feel "ok" not terrible, then on other occasional it would just feel rough as a bears arse.

Hope Audi sort it for you, and mention the plugs. Just sounds so similar to my probs..

Good luck man


----------



## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

Picture of mine used plugs after 34k miles:


----------



## mpaul0055 (Oct 7, 2009)

TT-driver said:


> Picture of mine used plugs after 34k miles:


If you have a start-stop city style drive to work would there be a greater carbon build up. Yours do definitely look cleaner than mine.


----------



## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

The coffee with milk brown look of the electrodes is perfect to my eyes. I do mostly out of town driving, no traffic jams. And every now and then I do burn off the carbon by revving the engine at 4000 rpm and above for a couple of minutes. Other than that I'm a very modest driver. New plugs did improve the car.


----------



## audikarlos (Oct 9, 2011)

Hi there,

This is a first post from me, I drive an 08 2.0l tfsi coupe with bluefin remap and pipercross air filter and it used to have the problems with juddering power.
Following advice from a previous thread on this exellent site I replaced the spark plugs with a cooler range and the car is driving better than ever. Woohoo.


----------



## mpaul0055 (Oct 7, 2009)

audikarlos said:


> Hi there,
> 
> This is a first post from me, I drive an 08 2.0l tfsi coupe with bluefin remap and pipercross air filter and it used to have the problems with juddering power.
> Following advice from a previous thread on this exellent site I replaced the spark plugs with a cooler range and the car is driving better than ever. Woohoo.


Glad you got it sorted pal! Nothing like a relatively cheap and easy fix. 



TT-driver said:


> The coffee with milk brown look of the electrodes is perfect to my eyes. I do mostly out of town driving, no traffic jams. And every now and then I do burn off the carbon by revving the engine at 4000 rpm and above for a couple of minutes. Other than that I'm a very modest driver. New plugs did improve the car.


Had another look at my old spark plugs last night and id say they are very similar to yours in colouring. Ill make sure i burn off the carbon every now and then aswell.

Cheers for your help folks! Case Closed [smiley=smash.gif]


----------



## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

audikarlos said:


> Hi there,
> 
> This is a first post from me, I drive an 08 2.0l tfsi coupe with bluefin remap and pipercross air filter and it used to have the problems with juddering power.
> Following advice from a previous thread on this exellent site I replaced the spark plugs with a cooler range and the car is driving better than ever. Woohoo.


Glad you got it sorted. However I'm wondering about the colder aspect of the plugs. Colder means they are less likely to reach the temperature required to burn the carbon deposits off. :?

Colder plugs are only required if the plugs get too hot. In that case the plugs are close to white. I have yet to see those on this forum.

Mind you, the relationship between heat-range and plug 'index' varies per manufacturer. Some higher is hotter, some higher is colder.


----------



## m-a-r-k (Nov 17, 2009)

TT-driver said:


> Picture of mine used plugs after 34k miles:


They look like they have been running too hot to me. You can see it in the colour of the both the electrodes and the metal screw part. Plugs shouldn't be THAT clean, a little carbon is normal.

Get a slightly cooler one in the range - NGK highly recommended.


----------



## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

m-a-r-k said:


> They look like they have been running too hot to me. You can see it in the colour of the both the electrodes and the metal screw part. Plugs shouldn't be THAT clean, a little carbon is normal.
> 
> Get a slightly cooler one in the range - NGK highly recommended.


The plugs came out straight after a motorway journey. That might explain why there is no carbon on the tips. There is no glazing going on, no blistering. So to me they look OK. The brownish colour I recognise from over 20 years of motoring and DIY-ing on cars. Based on that I found that the heat range as such is OK. But still the car did require the occasional burn them clean run. I switched to NGK though: the PFR7S8EG, the latest recommendation of Audi on the TFSI BWA engine. The need for cleaning those is less. And the car starts better too.


----------



## TWH (Aug 25, 2010)

Audi just replaced my plugs - they were Bosch, and the recommendation from Audi Techs in Deutschland was to swap them out for NGK for the stuttering issue I've been experiencing, so definitely sounds like NGK are the way forward. If you say that it also now starts better then it's another sign that the plugs were hopefully the cause of my problems as sometimes she really didn't want to start as you would expect of a new car.


----------



## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

I swapped mine out for the NGK ones mentioned above, solved my issues, so will keep a close eye on how they look after a few thousand miles.


----------



## m-a-r-k (Nov 17, 2009)

NGK PFR7S8EG run 1 step cooler. 1 step cooler solved many a rough running (and running-on) issues in my tuning days. I've had engines that were transformed just going from Bosch to NGK. Wouldn't use any other brand now.


----------



## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanks Mark. Seems Audi and I did the right thing then. My TT never suffered from misfires around 3500 RPM though. Mainly because I don't usually rev my engine that much. It didn't mind doing top speed in Germany though, 160 mph downhill.

The original plugs are Bosch FR 6 KPP 332S plugs.

According to NGK










the PFR7S8EG is indeed one step cooler.

Funnily enough they do seem to reach the self cleaning temperature more often than the hotter plugs. :?

Seems NGK knows there business sparklingly well.


----------



## m-a-r-k (Nov 17, 2009)

I honestly do think those plugs looked like they were running too hot to be honest but I have a diesel now, so... :? 
I'm glad it's sorted. Just goes to show how important a little thing like a tiny change of the size of the electrodes and how far away they are from the barrel of the plug, can make to an engine's performance and feel.


----------



## TT-driver (Sep 14, 2010)

Too hot or not, either way, TFSI engines (and not only those in the TT) are extremely picky on their plugs. That much is becoming very clear.


----------

