# HAZARD SWITCH FLASHER UNIT FIX - HOW TO



## John-H

*HAZARD SWITCH FLASHER UNIT FIX - HOW TO*

My indicators stopped working coming home tonight and I had to flash the indicators manually... then it started working again! Fortunately I'd seen an excellent post recently. Feeling inspired by XTR's excellent pictures of his switch internals http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... 943#809943, I decided to take the unit apart to clean the relay contacts.

*Radio and switch removal*

First you need to take out the radio and then the switch. Follow this guide to remove and replace the flasher switch module: *Flasher Removal*

I found that my radio was difficult to remove with the Audi OEM keys. (Wak has a picture with the part number: *Radio Keys*)

Inserting the keys sounded like they were scratching around without doing much. I have two sets and I did find that inserting two sets at once helped as it fills up the slots and is more solid. I found that the metal in the radio clip supports was bent. I straightened them with pliars and now the radio comes out easily with one set of keys.

*Repair procedure:*

Once you have the switch out you need to mark the top of each part with a felt pen or similar in order to get it together correctly. Carefully prise off the red cap and push out the locking bar:










Then prise up the sides of the case just under the locking bar and pull the connector. The PCB should slide out but don't force it as the LED stem will catch on things! You can see and guide it having removed the button.










There are two springs to catch so be careful not to loose them










There are two contacts for the hazard lights and one set of contacts for the indicators. The indicator contacts are shown here:










They were burnt and pitted and had welded themselves together at some stage. What happens is that the sparking causes oxides and carbon to build up and raise the contact resistance. The increased resistance causes heat and more arcing which eventually welds the contacts together. It needs to be prised apart if welded and cleaned.

A little piece of fine glass paper (not wet+dry as that's conductive) slipped between the contacts and rubbed backwards and forwards, whilst applying a little manual closing pressure, usually cleans up such contact nicely. Unfortunately there's not much room to do that. What I did manage was to poke a fine Jewlers screwdriver in between the contacts in order to scrape them clean and get back to shiney metal.

Make sure you don't bend the contacts. If you press the magnetic actuator down, the contact should close slightly before the actuator reaches its stop - that way you ensure some contact force when it closes. Make sure the contact opens with sufficient gap however. If the contacts were eaten away or you bent them too far open, the force will have lessened and you'll get poor resistance. Too small a gap and they may arc and not break contact properly. You probably won't need to clean the hazard contacts as they won't have been used much. In fact, they can be used as a guide to assess the correct contact gap and closing pressure of the cleaned and refurbished contacts 

Give all three contact sets a spray of contact cleaner such as this Servisol Super 10. This will lubricate and keep the contact resistance low - it's remarkable stuff. You can get it from Maplins etc.










The cleaned contacts will hopefully last for a long time but it depends how badly eaten way they are. The best option would be to replace the relay. Here's a possibility but I have not checked the size - it may be too big as the Audi ones are small. It's a changeover relay but the second pole is unused in this application. (Unfortunately it's now no longer stocked at Farnell)









http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/ ... SKU=176587

*Note:* Audi's supplier has revised the switch design. It's fit and function identical but just slightly different internals. It'll be the relays becoming obsolete that's driven this change.

Still, same principals apply but the contacts are difficult to get to as the relays are shrouded. Here are the data sheets for those two relays:

G8N-1
G8NW-2

The first one is for the single pole changeover - the smaller one of the two and the one that flashes the indicators.

With these, and as you've got nothing to loose, you can try cutting away the plastic case of the relay - it's only a thin protective cover. If you cut around the top (file off the edges) you should be able to pull the lid off as it where and see inside. Don't cut too deep for fear of damaging the coil. Then do the side edges (bending the sides down and breaking away) and you'll expose the insides, which should look similar in principal to the original open frame design. If you have a soldering iron you will find it easier with the relay removed from the PCB.

Clean up the contacts in the same way as with the original.

Alternatively you could buy a new relay from Omron or a distributor. I tried Farnell and RS components and they don't stock them but there are other suppliers. Omron may provide a free sample to an enquiry if you're lucky http://omronauto.com/.

Unfortunately the PCB has also been revised to accomodate the new relays, so you can't easily simply replace old relays with the later types without modifying the PCB - and I'm not sure if there's overall room.

*Reassembly:*

Getting it back together is a little tricky. You need to take the sliding button apart further. Some careful prising is needed. Make sure you mark orientation of the parts. Then assemble the springs in their holes and locate them onto the pegs of the slide and click it together with the PCB assembly.










Next carefully slide the PCB assembly into the body making sure the PCB slots into the guides inside the body. It should lock into place. You can slide the locking bar back in at this stage.

You can now replace the round piece of the button slide. Make sure the single tag for the red cap is on the label side of the switch body (highlighted).










Now you can snap the red button back on and replace the unit in the car. I'm pleased to report mine works fine now 

N.B. Apparently there have been some cases of the indicator stalk being faulty and causing a similar problem. Differences between left and right indication with one being faulty and the other not would tend to indicate ( :roll: ) the stalk was at fault.

If your flasher unit is beyond repair the Audi part number is P/N 8N0 941 509


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## Wak

nice write up..... John.

I always wondered if it was contacts wearing or the relays being close that one magnetised the other.

Problem solved....


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## KenTT

Nice one again John, didn't have to get to cold and dirty on this one :lol: .


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## YELLOW_TT

Gtear write up John get it added to the FAQ at the top of page one m8


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## SeYaSeEe

*you're unbeleiveably good at this ..

nice write up ..  *


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## JayGemson

Great write-up John. Re-assuring to know this sort of detail is available if I ever have this problem with my TT. This is such a fantastic forum!


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## chrisdawson83

Excellent write up. However it has not worked for me, my indicators dont work at all but my hazards do, what does anyone suggest this could be??


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## John-H

What are the symptoms? Can you hear the relay clicking with the indicators? Do the lights come on with the indiicator stalk?

If the lights come on but they don't flash (no clicking) I'd suggest your contacts may be welded together or don't separate far enough when the relay is not energised.

If the relay goes click but the lights don't flash, I think you may have bent the contacts too far apart, so they don't actually meet when the relay is energised.

Other faults may be something else like fuses, blown bulbs, bad connections, or even the flasher circuit board or relay failed etc.


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## chrisdawson83

Thanks for the reply it flashes once but I cant hear a click after that if i flash them manually they work? Will i need to buy a replacedment unit? I have been told they cost Â£27 is this the correct symtom in your opinion??


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## John-H

With just the ignition on, push the indicator stalk up but not so much that the lever clunks into the fully on position - but enough to turn on the indicators (this is just to achieve quietness :wink: )

Listen to the indicator flasher. If it makes one click so the lights lit up briefly then go out (in the normal period) but then they don't light up again anymore, so you have to manually flash them by hand - then I'd think the oscillator has stopped oscillating. Possibly a component was damaged. You could check any dodgey looking solder joints but you might just have to get a replacement if you can't see what's wrong or dont have the repair equipment. Sorry :?

I'm not sure about the price. I'll check later.


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## Jibberingloon

I have just done this fix and it works 

Saved me buying a new unit 

Took about 30 mins to take the unit out and then clean the conectors and replace.

BE WARNED

You need special key to remove the Head Unit, so a quick pop to the dealership and ask the nice Service Man to remove it. 

Good luck


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## les

OK job done but how the feck do you get the radio removal keys to release from the radio.  I have put a bit of force in trying to remove/pull them out but dont want to be too heavy handed.  Do I just give em a hard Yank I dont want to break anything


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## Wak




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## les

Wak said:


>


Thanks again Wak. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] That is the bit missing from John Hs write up. I will insist he amends it :lol:


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## Jibberingloon

Well i fixed mine to save myself Â£35 from the stealers!

about 3 weeks later it broke...... so ended up buying a new one!

Anyway

Hope yours works for longeer!
:?


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## les

Jibberingloon said:


> Well i fixed mine to save myself Â£35 from the stealers!
> 
> about 3 weeks later it broke...... so ended up buying a new one!
> 
> Anyway
> 
> Hope yours works for longeer!
> :?


Well I bought a new one cos if it hadnt have worked and I knackered it trying to repair it I would have been with no indicators at all and I dont have a 2nd car  Total cost inc the radio keys ( why do we need 4?) Â£38-81 inc VAT. The amazing thing is I went into work this am to discover I won the Grand national sweep  .. winnings Â£40 :roll: Paid for my new flasher and radio removal tools. :-*


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## simonj

chrisdawson83 said:


> Thanks for the reply it flashes once but I cant hear a click after that if i flash them manually they work? Will i need to buy a replacedment unit? I have been told they cost Â£27 is this the correct symtom in your opinion??


This has just happened today on my car, the indicators flash once, then click very quickly about 3 times then nothing but the hazards work fine do you think I need a new relay or will be able to clean up the old one?


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## John-H

simonj said:


> chrisdawson83 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply it flashes once but I cant hear a click after that if i flash them manually they work? Will i need to buy a replacedment unit? I have been told they cost Â£27 is this the correct symtom in your opinion??
> 
> 
> 
> This has just happened today on my car, the indicators flash once, then click very quickly about 3 times then nothing but the hazards work fine do you think I need a new relay or will be able to clean up the old one?
Click to expand...

Depends on your skills, dexterity and luck. You need to try and get the contacts smooth again and file off the burn and pitting. It's small though. The contact cleaner will help too and also help blast away any loose bits. You also need to get the contact gap right as explained.

Mine are still working fine. It's got to be worth a go providing you don't mind repeating the excercise to fit a new one if it doesn't work.


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## acmurray

Very helpful write up John.
I thought I might share a discovery I made with you all.

Basically after about 3 weeks of manually flashing my blinkers and fruitlessly hunting for a set of radio keys I had one of my rare brainwaves. 
I was looking at the picture of the good and bad radio keys, you know the one on Wak's site that you have a link for. Anyway I was thinking about all the possible ways I could get my hands on a set, and then it hit me, why not just make them.
So I printed out the picture of the keys and cut out the shape of the keys. I then got some prit-stick and stuck the template on the lid of a dog food tin and cut around the template with a pair of good scissors. 
It turns out that if you print the image it is exactly the same size of the keys in real life, I know this as the keys worked perfectly.
A coke can would also probably work although you may have to double up the metal as it is thinner.
I hope this might be of use to someone.


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## sethinlondon

Hi there,
I'm having a simlilar problem with my hazards working fine, but the indicator, not. Having had a read of this, sounds like I need to go out and get a flasher unit (don't fancy taking the old one to pieces). Can someone let me know where I can get one please? Also, someone mentioned a broken oscillator - is this seperate to the flasher unit, and if so - how would I know whether I need an oscillator or a flasher unit?
Thanks in advance,Seth


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## les

sethinlondon said:


> Hi there,
> I'm having a simlilar problem with my hazards working fine, but the indicator, not. Having had a read of this, sounds like I need to go out and get a flasher unit (don't fancy taking the old one to pieces). Can someone let me know where I can get one please? Also, someone mentioned a broken oscillator - is this seperate to the flasher unit, and if so - how would I know whether I need an oscillator or a flasher unit?
> Thanks in advance,Seth


From an Audi dealer about Â£28


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## John-H

acmurray said:


> Very helpful write up John.
> I thought I might share a discovery I made with you all.
> 
> Basically after about 3 weeks of manually flashing my blinkers and fruitlessly hunting for a set of radio keys I had one of my rare brainwaves.
> I was looking at the picture of the good and bad radio keys, you know the one on Wak's site that you have a link for. Anyway I was thinking about all the possible ways I could get my hands on a set, and then it hit me, why not just make them.
> So I printed out the picture of the keys and cut out the shape of the keys. I then got some prit-stick and stuck the template on the lid of a dog food tin and cut around the template with a pair of good scissors.
> It turns out that if you print the image it is exactly the same size of the keys in real life, I know this as the keys worked perfectly.
> A coke can would also probably work although you may have to double up the metal as it is thinner.
> I hope this might be of use to someone.


What if you don't have a dog and don't drink Coke? Come on Mr Murray that's not very helpful  :lol: .

No - excellent idea I mean  . The thicker the better though. I found two of the standard Audi keys fit together in one slot and engage better.



sethinlondon said:


> Hi there,
> I'm having a simlilar problem with my hazards working fine, but the indicator, not. Having had a read of this, sounds like I need to go out and get a flasher unit (don't fancy taking the old one to pieces). Can someone let me know where I can get one please? Also, someone mentioned a broken oscillator - is this seperate to the flasher unit, and if so - how would I know whether I need an oscillator or a flasher unit?
> Thanks in advance,Seth


The oscillator referred to is inside the Hazard flasher unit and drives the relay on and off - so if that's gone you still need to fix or replace the same thing.


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## rik-e

just followed the brill DIY but when i got the hazard unit open i was faced with this:

















it looks totally different to the one in the DIY and i couldn't find anywhere at all that had fused together/needed cleaning. it may have been in the 2 black covers which i couldn't remove 

looks like im going to the nearest stealers which is a 20min drive or so from me :x


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## John-H

Ah yes they seem to have revised the design. It'll be fit and function identical but just slightly different internals. It'll be the relays becoming obsolete that's driven this change.

Still, same principals apply but the contacts are difficult to get to. Here are the data sheets for those two relays:

http://omronauto.com/PDF/G8N-1d_data.pdf
http://omronauto.com/PDF/G8NW-2e_data.pdf

The first one is for the single pole changeover - the smaller one of the two and the one that flashes the indicators.

As you've got nothing to loose you can try cutting away the plastic case of the relay - it's only a thin protective cover. If you cut around the top (file off the edges) you should be able to pull the lid off as it where and see inside. Don't cut too deep for fear of damaging the coil. Then do the side edges (bending the sides down and breaking away) and you'll expose the insides which should look similar in principal to the original open frame design. If you have a soldering iron you might find it easier with the relay removed from the PCB.

Clean up the contacts in the same way as with the original.

Alternatively you could buy a new relay from Omron or a distributor. I tried Farnell and RS components and they don't stock it but there are others. Omron may provide a free sample to an enquiry if you're lucky http://omronauto.com/.

Anyway, thanks for the update - I'll update the How To with your information  .


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## rik-e

John-H said:


> Ah yes they seem to have revised the design. It'll be fit and function identical but just slightly different internals. It'll be the relays becoming obsolete that's driven this change.
> 
> Still, same principals apply but the contacts are difficult to get to. Here are the data sheets for those two relays:
> 
> http://omronauto.com/PDF/G8N-1d_data.pdf
> http://omronauto.com/PDF/G8NW-2e_data.pdf
> 
> The first one is for the single pole changeover - the smaller one of the two and the one that flashes the indicators.
> 
> As you've got nothing to loose you can try cutting away the plastic case of the relay - it's only a thin protective cover. If you cut around the top (file off the edges) you should be able to pull the lid off as it where and see inside. Don't cut too deep for fear of damaging the coil. Then do the side edges (bending the sides down and breaking away) and you'll expose the insides which should look similar in principal to the original open frame design. If you have a soldering iron you might find it easier with the relay removed from the PCB.
> 
> Clean up the contacts in the same way as with the original.
> 
> Alternatively you could buy a new relay from Omron or a distributor. I tried Farnell and RS components and they don't stock it but there are others. Omron may provide a free sample to an enquiry if you're lucky http://omronauto.com/.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for the update - I'll update the How To with your information  .


WOW, how do you know all this stuff lol.

I ended up ordering a whole new unit from vag parts for Â£27. will try wen i remove the one in the pics.

Thanks for the info.


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## acmurray

acmurray said:


> Very helpful write up John.
> I thought I might share a discovery I made with you all.
> 
> Basically after about 3 weeks of manually flashing my blinkers and fruitlessly hunting for a set of radio keys I had one of my rare brainwaves.
> I was looking at the picture of the good and bad radio keys, you know the one on Wak's site that you have a link for. Anyway I was thinking about all the possible ways I could get my hands on a set, and then it hit me, why not just make them.
> So I printed out the picture of the good keys and cut out the shape of the keys. I then got some prit-stick and stuck the template on the lid of a dog food tin and cut around the template with a pair of good scissors.
> It turns out that if you print the image it is exactly the same size of the keys in real life, I know this as the keys worked perfectly.
> A coke can would also probably work although you may have to double up the metal as it is thinner.
> I hope this might be of use to someone.


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## WAGITS

The same indicator issue came up with my car this morning. The indicators will sometimes work, left or right, then while they are operating, it will like double up in speed (clicks and flashes), then stop all together, or slow down. So from this post am I to presume that the hazard warning switch controls the indicators. If not, where could I find the indicator control box or as I know it, flasher can.


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## mhinson

Great directions!

I've just replaced my flasher with a brand new one (£35) but I still have the same problem as I had before. I.e. my left winkie is OK but my right one flashes at double-speed. All bulbs & fuses are OK though.

Has anyone else had the same problem? If so, any tips would be great.

Cheers,

M


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## John-H

I've not had an indicator bulb blow on the TT, so I can't confirm this precisely but it's common for a blown bulb to cause the flasher unit to flash at twice speed on most cars. This is achieved by measuring the current and if it's below the expected load current the flash rate is increased.

Have you checked the side repeaters on the wing as well as the more obvious front and back lights?

If they all appear to flash then other possibilities are; a poor connection that's adding resistance and reducing the current to a particular bulb(check bulb brightness), the wrong wattage bulb haveing been fitted or where a bulb has gone high resistance (check bulb brightness), someone having replaced an incandescent bulb with an LED version without a load resistor, or where the load resistor has become detached.


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## Wak

mhinson said:


> Great directions!
> 
> I've just replaced my flasher with a brand new one (£35) but I still have the same problem as I had before. I.e. my left winkie is OK but my right one flashes at double-speed. All bulbs & fuses are OK though.
> 
> Has anyone else had the same problem? If so, any tips would be great.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> M


Check the back ones again, there are two bulbs for the indicators in each cluster, if one blows then it may still appear that side is working but you need both bulbs operational!


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## mhinson

Ahaaaahh! Thank you Wak for this...you are quite right. Didn't notice at first but I've replaced the bulb and all is AOK. The Stealers even gave me a full refund on the flasher unit I'd bought a few days back.


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## stokedkid

My indicators and hazard's work fine, however, when Im driving I sometimes hear an intermittant clicking from dash (sounds like a relay cliking behind the hazard warning switch) is this the same problem you think?


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## mhinson

If it's coming from behind the dash at the location of the Hazard Switch then it'll definately be the flasher. Sounds like it could be on it's way out but unless it's 'really' annoying I wouldn't bother paying the £35 for a replacement.


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## look at them tt's

this is the only prob i have had with an otherwise brill car!!!

just wondered were about behind the stereo is the unit situated?!? if there is a pic out there that would be brillent or jus a quick guide as to were abouts it is?


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## John-H

It's in the link at the start: Flasher removal


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## tony_rigby_uk

would the flasher unit be responsible for one side of the lights on the hazard not flashing or flashing intermitantly? they work fine on turning either way. but when the alarm is armed or the hazards switched on only the right hand side (drivers side) O/S flash. The left side, Passanger side, N/S flash occasionally but not in sequence with the drivers side...

your guidence would be appreciated.

tony


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## bangon

Radio removal tool - I had the same problem with the hazard switch flasher unit p/n BND 941 509 A, slow deterioration then indicator failure even though the hazard lights still worked.
To remove the radio without the audi tool I bought a two piece jigsaw blade from the hardware store for a couple of dollars.
These worked straight out of the packet without any filing or modification, the ones I used were stehle S118A/2 large fitting for aeg, bosch, dewalt jigsaws.


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## Guest

Hi all.

I've done some searches and can't seem to find a definitive answer to this. I've installed a raft of nice bright LEDs on the back and, predictably, the indicators flash too quickly and I get bulb blown warnings every time I press the brakes when the lights are also on. Neither of these are a massive pain, but if they're easily fixable, I'd like to fix them.

Auto Bulbs Direct sells replacement relays that can cure the fast-indicator flash problem, but it doesn't look to me like they will be compatible with the hazard warning switch. They have confirmed that resistor kits get very hot and I don't want to go down that route, so can someone confirm if these LED-specific relays can be plug-and-play installed to the hazard warning switch. By plug-and-play, I mean no soldering required.

Regards,

Doug


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## John-H

tony_rigby_uk said:


> would the flasher unit be responsible for one side of the lights on the hazard not flashing or flashing intermitantly? they work fine on turning either way. but when the alarm is armed or the hazards switched on only the right hand side (drivers side) O/S flash. The left side, Passanger side, N/S flash occasionally but not in sequence with the drivers side...
> 
> your guidence would be appreciated.
> 
> tony


Hi Tony,

Sorry, I've only just seen your post  . I presume you've fixed this by now. It does (did?) sound like the hazard part of the flasher switch or the wiring to it. Both wires to left and right indicators come in here and the two pole relay connects power to both sides when flashing. The indicators have a separate single pole relay in the unit but the power comes out on a wire to the indicator turn switch which connects to either of the two wires to left or right indicators.



Doug Short said:


> Hi all.
> 
> I've done some searches and can't seem to find a definitive answer to this. I've installed a raft of nice bright LEDs on the back and, predictably, the indicators flash too quickly and I get bulb blown warnings every time I press the brakes when the lights are also on. Neither of these are a massive pain, but if they're easily fixable, I'd like to fix them.
> 
> Auto Bulbs Direct sells replacement relays that can cure the fast-indicator flash problem, but it doesn't look to me like they will be compatible with the hazard warning switch. They have confirmed that resistor kits get very hot and I don't want to go down that route, so can someone confirm if these LED-specific relays can be plug-and-play installed to the hazard warning switch. By plug-and-play, I mean no soldering required.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Doug


You need load resistors to fool the system. I'm not sure if a "plug and play" converter exists. Most I've heard use a resistor. One even used a fan assisted heatsink which is adding far too much complexity and unreliability. The 21W fillament bulbs seem attractive in comparison :?


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## tony_rigby_uk

John-H said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> Sorry, I've only just seen your post  . I presume you've fixed this by now. It does (did?) sound like the hazard part of the flasher switch or the wiring to it. Both wires to left and right indicators come in here and the two pole relay connects power to both sides when flashing. The indicators have a separate single pole relay in the unit but the power comes out on a wire to the indicator turn switch which connects to either of the two wires to left or right indicators.


No not at all John, just left it for the time being :roll: It isn't affecting driving signaling... just onle one side flashes on the hazord.... i'm actually getting used to it now... when i approach my car and unlock it... it's winking at me :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## markymarktt

hi john thanks for posting this on he i have just do it great post and its working now this was doing me head in saved me money lol hanks :lol:


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## Rad TT

bangon said:


> Radio removal tool - I had the same problem with the hazard switch flasher unit p/n BND 941 509 A, slow deterioration then indicator failure even though the hazard lights still worked.
> To remove the radio without the audi tool I bought a two piece jigsaw blade from the hardware store for a couple of dollars.
> These worked straight out of the packet without any filing or modification, the ones I used were stehle S118A/2 large fitting for aeg, bosch, dewalt jigsaws.


Yeh got to second this, worked a charm, got two old jig saw blades, just filed them down a bit to make them a bit sharper and bingo, straight in and out popped the radio, cheers for the advice 8)


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## tonyabacus

Hi John
Just had to use this fix after the indicators/flashers started plating up, thanks for a great write up it was very easy as you said apart from getting into the contacts to clean them with sandpaper.

So as not to bend contacts I used a paper clip that I flattened the end on to make a tiny scraper, very thin so got in without any damage and then used a small strip of cabinet paper to give them a final rub, and finally some contact cleaner.

Job took about 30 minutes from start to finish, and saved me some cash as it seems to have sorted the problem.

Good tip and thanks again.


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## John-H

tonyabacus said:


> Hi John
> Just had to use this fix after the indicators/flashers started plating up, thanks for a great write up it was very easy as you said apart from getting into the contacts to clean them with sandpaper.
> 
> So as not to bend contacts I used a paper clip that I flattened the end on to make a tiny scraper, very thin so got in without any damage and then used a small strip of cabinet paper to give them a final rub, and finally some contact cleaner.
> 
> Job took about 30 minutes from start to finish, and saved me some cash as it seems to have sorted the problem.
> 
> Good tip and thanks again.


Well done Tony! Your reward is the satisfaction of it too


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## (T)errible(T)urk

Hi guys,

I have the same problem with my indicators, hazard lights ok but I only hear the ''click'' when I move the indicator stalk up or down half way( not when I push it all the way down or up) i have cleaned the flasher but still not much improvment...do you think I should replace the stalk or flasher.....


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## John-H

Do the indicator lights and tell tale extinguish when you push the stalk all the way up - but indicators work OK when you push the stalk half way up? That could be a faulty switch then. I have a non cruise version going spare if you want it.


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## (T)errible(T)urk

John-H said:


> Do the indicator lights and tell tale extinguish when you push the stalk all the way up - but indicators work OK when you push the stalk half way up? That could be a faulty switch then. I have a non cruise version going spare if you want it.


 I mean it is hard to explain but indicator light dont work on the dash and when I hold the stalk on the half way up or down I hear the click but again it does not work consistenly... I can but that non cuise stalk from u I want to be sure it is the stalk not the flasher... how can I rectify the fault?


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## (T)errible(T)urk

John-H said:


> Do the indicator lights and tell tale extinguish when you push the stalk all the way up - but indicators work OK when you push the stalk half way up? That could be a faulty switch then. I have a non cruise version going spare if you want it.


 Does anyone know the part number for TT flasher?


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## PAULPIERIDES

Hi Everyone,

My indicators have started playing up over the last week. The indicators work fine for the 1st 5 mins of driving then they stop flashing and there is no clicking from the relay behind the hazard switch. The LED indicator arrows on the dashboard just remain lit up. When checking the lights around the car they just remain permanently lit up.

The only way around this is to re-start the car then they work fine again for 5 mins...
Reading through the posts it sounds like the flasher unit is on its way out??? what do you think? should i try John H fix or just get a new unit for £35.

Cheers
Paul


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## John-H

PAULPIERIDES said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> My indicators have started playing up over the last week. The indicators work fine for the 1st 5 mins of driving then they stop flashing and there is no clicking from the relay behind the hazard switch. The LED indicator arrows on the dashboard just remain lit up. When checking the lights around the car they just remain permanently lit up.
> 
> The only way around this is to re-start the car then they work fine again for 5 mins...
> Reading through the posts it sounds like the flasher unit is on its way out??? what do you think? should i try John H fix or just get a new unit for £35.
> 
> Cheers
> Paul


I would normally say have a go but if you are sure about this five minutes of working then they get stuck thing - and that cycling the ignition on and off fixes it every time for another five minutes and that this is repeatable and not just the odd occasion...... then it sounds more like the drive electronics is keeping the relay turned on when it gets warm rather than the relay contacts micro welding themselves together (which would be more random). In that case it may not be easy to fix so a replacement would be a better bet.


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## ap123ap

My flasher has developed a fault this morning. As someone else has experienced, the hazards work fine but the indicators do not flash. going to try to give the dash a whack as i have a 7" screen installed and dont really fancy removal...

...so just to confirm, if whacking it doesnt work is the problem the relay behind the hazard? Still a little confused as the hazards are working fine.

Thanks in advance!


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## markypoo

The relay is in the hazard switch so either try the repair or change the hazard switch, giving mine a whack worked for me and has lasted a while now :?


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## ap123ap

markypoo said:


> The relay is in the hazard switch so either try the repair or change the hazard switch, giving mine a whack worked for me and has lasted a while now :?


just went out and gave the dash a whack above the hazard switch and it worked a treat! thanks for the speedy response mate and thanks john for the fantastic write up!


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## Automan

*Careful with the Jigsaw blades mine got stuck!!*

Use the non-saw ends and insert them in the slots angled slightly outwards - you'll be able to feel the resistance of the sprung catches, then straighten them up as you slide them in; the head unit will pop out when you hit the sweet spot............or alternatively save yourself the (potential) grief and buy a set of Audi's tools!

By the way; my pair of indicator contacts were so fried that only one remained - still enough for the indicators to flash about 7 times before stopping!

Does anyone know if you can buy the flasher unit online? Audi Glasgow have been crap in the past and I can't be bothered with the inevitable hassle every time I need to order a part from them.



bangon said:


> Radio removal tool - I had the same problem with the hazard switch flasher unit p/n BND 941 509 A, slow deterioration then indicator failure even though the hazard lights still worked.
> To remove the radio without the audi tool I bought a two piece jigsaw blade from the hardware store for a couple of dollars.
> These worked straight out of the packet without any filing or modification, the ones I used were stehle S118A/2 large fitting for aeg, bosch, dewalt jigsaws.


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## pinky

Thank you for this brilliant write up  
Iv never touched anything electrical like this before and even I managed it...and it works!
When I was cleaning in between the contacts I somehow pushed the gap open too much and the indicators stopped working....even manually...but after a bit of fiddling I got the gap to close a little and they work perfect now.
Audi wanted £42 plus vat for the new part.
So thanks again 

Hi Five.


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## pinky

ap123ap said:


> My flasher has developed a fault this morning. As someone else has experienced, the hazards work fine but the indicators do not flash. going to try to give the dash a whack as i have a 7" screen installed and dont really fancy removal...
> 
> ...so just to confirm, if whacking it doesnt work is the problem the relay behind the hazard? Still a little confused as the hazards are working fine.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


The hazard and the indicators are in the same relay box...they just have different contacts.


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## SeedyAre

Hi,

Sorry for posting on a thread thats not been used in over 8months, but my problem is related to this so hopefully someone will be able to help.

I followed the steps here on replacing the blinker, but on the step "pull down the hinge piece of plastic until it unsnaps" I seem to have unhooked one end of the plastic.

I've managed to replace the hazard blinker but now can't push the hinged plastic back into place to stop the hazard, heated seat switches etc from pushing back when being pressed, Any suggestions? Anyone had any experiences? I've sat for about 25mins trying to find an area to hook it back into and can't.

Please help!

(First post, G/F bought a MK1 a few days ago and this was gone already it seemed.. :x )

EDIT: I went back out and have managed to snap the plastic back into place, but it is still unhooked on the right hand side which means that when you push the heated set switch for the drivers seat, the button goes into the dashboard. Any help is much appreciated, thank you.


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## John-H

I hope nothing has broken. I'm afraid I can't really help. I think it's a case of having a close look at the mechanics and work out what's going on. Perhaps a small mirror might help to see what holds it together. Compare one end with the other. Also make sure your switches are fully forward when trying to secure the locking piece.


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## SeedyAre

Thanks John-H

Before I saw your post, I went back out and have managed to snap the plastic back into place, but it is still unhooked on the right hand side which means that when you push the heated set switch for the drivers seat, the button goes into the dashboard.

Good idea about a mirror, maybe one of those dentist mirrors! 

The other thing I found impossible was getting the pull-down piece of plastic in pictures 1-3 of the step by step tutorial I liked to in my past post. At the minute i've left it off, but I may have another go when there's more light.


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## ralfy

John-H said:


> Then prise up the sides of the case just under the locking bar and pull the connector. The PCB should slide out but don't force it as the LED stem will catch on things! You can see and guide it having removed the button.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two springs to catch so be careful not to loose them


I know its been a few years since this thread was started, but I need to fix my flasher unit and a couple of the images in the how-to are no longer showing up. Are they still available somewhere?


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## 35mphspeedlimit

ralfy said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then prise up the sides of the case just under the locking bar and pull the connector. The PCB should slide out but don't force it as the LED stem will catch on things! You can see and guide it having removed the button.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two springs to catch so be careful not to loose them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know its been a few years since this thread was started, but I need to fix my flasher unit and a couple of the images in the how-to are no longer showing up. Are they still available somewhere?
Click to expand...

Try this link if you are looking to replace:

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format ... 1926669321

Took my mechanic about 2 minutes to change over the switch!


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## muxgt

35mphspeedlimit said:


> ralfy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John-H said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then prise up the sides of the case just under the locking bar and pull the connector. The PCB should slide out but don't force it as the LED stem will catch on things! You can see and guide it having removed the button.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two springs to catch so be careful not to loose them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know its been a few years since this thread was started, but I need to fix my flasher unit and a couple of the images in the how-to are no longer showing up. Are they still available somewhere?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try this link if you are looking to replace:
> 
> http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format ... 1926669321
> 
> Took my mechanic about 2 minutes to change over the switch!
Click to expand...

all [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif] 
for that link


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## ralfy

35mphspeedlimit said:


> Try this link if you are looking to replace:
> 
> http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format ... 1926669321
> 
> Took my mechanic about 2 minutes to change over the switch!


Thanks, but I have seen that already. Not looking to replace, I want to try and fix first, hence the need for the missing pics.


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## ralfy

I removed my flasher unit on Saturday and after taking it apart, putting it back together, re-installing and removing about half a dozen times, finally managed to get the indicators working correctly (at least for the time being). The problem I had was getting the contact gap right. A few times I put it back in the car and the indicators didn't even work because I had made the gap too wide. Another time the hazard lights stayed on all time (not sure how this happened as I hadn't even touched those contacts).

Anyway I thought it might help if I uploaded a few of the pics I took during the process.

Here is a pic of the radio removal tools I used. They are the cheap and nasty ones that I bought ages ago for my Mk4 Golf. First time removal was a bit hit and miss (I had them in the wrong way round), but once I examined the springs I could see where the tool was supposed to fit and that made subsequent removal very easy.










The following 2 images show the spring on the side of the head unit. The second is a zoomed in pic and if you look closely you can see the hook at the top of the tool (circled in red in the pic above) positioned at the base of the spring. When both tools are in this position you just move both tools outward to push in the springs and pull the head unit out.



















Locking bar removal.










Here is a pic of the flasher unit opened up.










And a pic with the single indicator contact highlighted - this is the contact to clean.










Overall I found the removal and dismantling of the unit very easy - it was getting the gap right which was a bit hit an miss.

Many thanks to John for the original how-to and for re-uploading the missing pics.


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## John-H

Good on you for trying and succeeding with the fix! It always helps to get another angle on a picture. I don't know where my original uploads went - good job I didn't throw the originals away.

It helps when setting the contact gap to press the steel plate home, that's pulled in by the coil, and check to see that the contact closes and bends only very slightly. Too much much and it may not open and to little and it may not contact properly. Compare the contact pressure to the other good relay as a guide


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## Phil tun

Thanks John for the detailed information. I visited my local volkswagen dealer who used their keys to remove the audi concert CD player for me free of charge. I then followed your advice and brilliant pictures and took everything apart, cleaned the contacts, set the gaps and then put everything back together again. Maybe its just good luck but my indicators worked perfectly first time and due to the clear instructions it only took me about an hour or so to complete the task. Once again cheers John.
Phil.


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## Skeee

Thanks.

I followed this thread last September. It took a few attempts at getting the relay leaf spacing correct. Still working fine since then, so thanks.


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## nathmk1tt

Thanks you for this this is the second thread I've read and both times
The souloution has been the answer  so this has made me decide to 
Become a member after recently buying my mk1 Tt coupe 225 

My relay switch was a little different to one pictured but after reading 
The update I managed to scrape/slice the plastic covering my relay and 
Cleaned the switches and refit working first time (for now  ) lol

Cheers guys 
Newbie NaTh


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## maTTTerhorn

John-H said:


> *HAZARD SWITCH FLASHER UNIT FIX - HOW TO*
> 
> My indicators stopped working coming home tonight and I had to flash the indicators manually... then it started working again! Fortunately I'd seen an excellent post recently. Feeling inspired by XTR's excellent pictures of his switch internals http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... 943#809943, I decided to take the unit apart to clean the relay contacts.
> 
> *Radio and switch removal*
> 
> First you need to take out the radio and then the switch. Follow this guide to remove and replace the flasher switch module: *Flasher Removal*
> 
> I found that my radio was difficult to remove with the Audi OEM keys. (Wak has a picture with the part number: *Radio Keys*)
> 
> Inserting the keys sounded like they were scratching around without doing much. I have two sets and I did find that inserting two sets at once helped as it fills up the slots and is more solid. I found that the metal in the radio clip supports was bent. I straightened them with pliars and now the radio comes out easily with one set of keys.
> *Repair procedure:*
> 
> Once you have the switch out you need to mark the top of each part with a felt pen or similar in order to get it together correctly. Carefully prise off the red cap and push out the locking bar:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then prise up the sides of the case just under the locking bar and pull the connector. The PCB should slide out but don't force it as the LED stem will catch on things! You can see and guide it having removed the button.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two springs to catch so be careful not to loose them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two contacts for the hazard lights and one set of contacts for the indicators. The indicator contacts are shown here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were burnt and pitted and had welded themselves together at some stage. What happens is that the sparking causes oxides and carbon to build up and raise the contact resistance. The increased resistance causes heat and more arcing which eventually welds the contacts together. It needs to be prised apart if welded and cleaned.
> 
> A little piece of fine glass paper (not wet+dry as that's conductive) slipped between the contacts and rubbed backwards and forwards, whilst applying a little manual closing pressure, usually cleans up such contact nicely. Unfortunately there's not much room to do that. What I did manage was to poke a fine Jewlers screwdriver in between the contacts in order to scrape them clean and get back to shiney metal.
> 
> Make sure you don't bend the contacts. If you press the magnetic actuator down, the contact should close slightly before the actuator reaches its stop - that way you ensure some contact force when it closes. Make sure the contact opens with sufficient gap however. If the contacts were eaten away or you bent them too far open, the force will have lessened and you'll get poor resistance. Too small a gap and they may arc and not break contact properly. You probably won't need to clean the hazard contacts as they won't have been used much. In fact, they can be used as a guide to assess the correct contact gap and closing pressure of the cleaned and refurbished contacts
> 
> Give all three contact sets a spray of contact cleaner such as this Servisol Super 10. This will lubricate and keep the contact resistance low - it's remarkable stuff. You can get it from Maplins etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The cleaned contacts will hopefully last for a long time but it depends how badly eaten way they are. The best option would be to replace the relay. Here's a possibility but I have not checked the size - it may be too big as the Audi ones are small. It's a changeover relay but the second pole is unused in this application. (Unfortunately it's now no longer stocked at Farnell)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/ ... SKU=176587
> 
> *Note:* Audi's supplier has revised the switch design. It's fit and function identical but just slightly different internals. It'll be the relays becoming obsolete that's driven this change.
> 
> Still, same principals apply but the contacts are difficult to get to as the relays are shrouded. Here are the data sheets for those two relays:
> 
> http://omronauto.com/PDF/G8N-1d_data.pdf
> http://omronauto.com/PDF/G8NW-2e_data.pdf
> 
> The first one is for the single pole changeover - the smaller one of the two and the one that flashes the indicators.
> 
> With these, and as you've got nothing to loose, you can try cutting away the plastic case of the relay - it's only a thin protective cover. If you cut around the top (file off the edges) you should be able to pull the lid off as it where and see inside. Don't cut too deep for fear of damaging the coil. Then do the side edges (bending the sides down and breaking away) and you'll expose the insides, which should look similar in principal to the original open frame design. If you have a soldering iron you will find it easier with the relay removed from the PCB.
> 
> Clean up the contacts in the same way as with the original.
> 
> Alternatively you could buy a new relay from Omron or a distributor. I tried Farnell and RS components and they don't stock them but there are other suppliers. Omron may provide a free sample to an enquiry if you're lucky http://omronauto.com/.
> 
> Unfortunately the PCB has also been revised to accomodate the new relays, so you can't easily simply replace old relays with the later types without modifying the PCB - and I'm not sure if there's overall room.
> 
> *Reassembly:*
> 
> Getting it back together is a little tricky. You need to take the sliding button apart further. Some careful prising is needed. Make sure you mark orientation of the parts. Then assemble the springs in their holes and locate them onto the pegs of the slide and click it together with the PCB assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next carefully slide the PCB assembly into the body making sure the PCB slots into the guides inside the body. It should lock into place. You can slide the locking bar back in at this stage.
> 
> You can now replace the round piece of the button slide. Make sure the single tag for the red cap is on the label side of the switch body (highlighted).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you can snap the red button back on and replace the unit in the car. I'm pleased to report mine works fine now
> 
> N.B. Apparently there have been some cases of the indicator stalk being faulty and causing a similar problem. Differences between left and right indication with one being faulty and the other not would tend to indicate ( :roll: ) the stalk was at fault.
> 
> If your flasher unit is beyond repair the Audi part number is P/N 8N0 941 509


thanks for this thread JOHN-H, live in s france and indicators played up .. not that locals use them!!!! did all as use said and hey presto they work after blinking now and then!!! saved me at least 200 euros. will check out all your other help. MATTTERHORN.


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## maTTTerhorn

John-H, sorry may have sent message incorrect! this thread worked for me after I got local Audi dealer to remove radio at no charge!!! found it was very easy to repair my indicators after a long long while not working!!! as locals do not use them at all!!! and happy as saved an audi fortune here in S France!!!. and feel a little safer on the road....  Mattterhorn


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## John-H

Excellent


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## jakon316

Mine went this week hazards working fine no indicators working took the flasher unit apart and I had the newer version so cracked open the little black component boxes and now the indicators work fine but now the hazards don't work? Guessing I fixed the indicator 1 and broke the hazard 1 in the process? Only problem is I don't know which 1 is which!??


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## jakon316




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## NaughTTy

Huge thanks to John (and other contributors) for this how to. Managed to get my indicators working (first time, amazingly!)by following this guide. Main problem I had was prising the top off the switch unit in order to re-assemble. All done in some spare minutes I had between jobs at my desk this morning. Lucky we have a lab downstairs with magnifying units, tweezers and contact cleaner 

Will probably source another flasher unit from somewhere just in case this one fails but happy it's working for now. Thanks John


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## Stealth69

Awesome write up John-h and thanks to the others for their input too..... Had to sort mine this morning and now works a charm... Thank you


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## stillchillin

Thanks to the help of this guide I've just fixed my "Indicators on the blink" the only thing I would add to it is that my problem was the gap being to large . The moving contact butts up against a tiny piece of rubber which appears to set the gap , I prized mine out from its recess just a tiny bit which made the gap the same as the one on the hazard contacts , all working perfectly now..  ..I had first tried contact cleaner etc to no avail ....


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## John-H

Well done that man


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## mullum

Not so well done this man though...
Funny enough, I tried to fix mine today too. Well, here's what happened ..
Radio out, hazard switch out, took it apart - could not make head nor tail of the thing :-/
Despite reading this how to I couldn't work out what was what and what should look like what ??? I couldn't see any evidence of burning or welding - so I gave up and put it back. At which point the bracket that secures the buttons dropped slightly. This meant that all of the buttons (hazard, ESP, seat heaters) would push back into the dash when pressed.
Triangles off, glovebox off, ashtray off, centre console off - bracket pushed back into place. Buttons secured.
Put the whole lot back together again. Several hours of a lovely day wasted and I've still got dodgy indicators :-(
And all this has happened after testing LEDs in the rear indicators ????
I actually have a spare set of rear clusters so I tried with those and so I know it's not the bulbs or the units themselves.
I think my only option now is to buy a new hazard switch (£45), because no indicators just isn't cool ! Funny how something like this can put your car off the road !

The part number on my switch ended in "A" which I believe has been superseded.

(My indicator stalk is only 9 months old as I had cruise control fitted recently).


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## stillchillin

Sorry to hear about your experience today...I know the problem seeing the points..only way I could see was with a torch or bright sunlight and a magnifying glass , I am an old git though !


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## John-H

An eyeglass is good - or essential depending on your eyes. You should only need the radio out to access the switch retainer. My S3 is similar and keeps failing but a thump to the console cues it for another few months. It's the lazy cure :wink:


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## Skeee

mullum said:


> ....... hazard switch out, took it apart - could not make head nor tail of the thing :-/
> Despite reading this how to I couldn't work out what was what and what should look like what ??? I couldn't see any evidence of burning or welding - so I gave up and put it back.


First identify which of the two relays is the indicators and not the hazards.
Mine weren't exposed (like the Mercedes set up) but each encapsulated in a black plastic box.
If you're careful, then just the switch base can be plugged in without the switch cover/case assembly, then when you select hazards put the end of a small insulated screwdriver on each of the two black relay boxes to feel which is operating. 
Use a scalpel or very sharp penknife and cut just the top 'lid' off the other plastic (indicator) relay box.
If all looks good then cut a strip of emery (sandpaper) approx 2mm wide and an inch or two long and carefully drag it either side of the leaf spring/relay contact a few times.
Then cut a piece of paper same side and dab some meths/contact cleaner on it and do the same.
If that fails to revive the relay, use a small flatblade screwdriver to bend the leaf one way or the other until the indicator works equally both ways.
If that fails try again.
If that fails :- http://www.germanautopartsdirect.co.uk/ ... r0&x=0&y=0


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## mullum

Thanks for going to all that trouble to help me out, much appreciated.
Honestly though I didn't fancy removing it again just to to be confounded again - so I've bought a replacement switch from eBay (that germanautoparts place is more expensive and I hate the way they add the vat at the end - including adding vat onto postage which is another pet hate). 
I just hope the new relay fixes the issue - but I'll be nervous about testing indicator LEDs after forking out £45 !
Perhaps you might like to have a go at refurbing my old relay ? :lol:


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## mullum

New switch/relay arrived (£45 eBay). 5 minute job to swap them over. Now working properly. New one has the "B" part number instead of the "A" at the end. Still reluctant to test any more LEDs though - if they're going to damage the relay :-/


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## John-H

Seems unlikely to damage the relay with lower current. Perhaps the relay contacts were on their way out anyway? Try connecting your LED lamp to 12V with a bit of wire and look for a spark as you dab the wire on, then do the same with an incandescent bulb and compare :wink:


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## mullum

Cheers John.
I need to buy a 12v battery actually - so I can bench test LEDs etc. I'm thinking of one of those big batteries that go in big torches. But would something like this do the same job ? http://bit.ly/1is1rNo
Actually I think the relay WAS on its way out - but after testing the LEDs it was kaput !


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## John-H

Your link just goes to an Android eBay app for me but if the battery is good enough to maintain 12V under load then it should be good to test with


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## Hoggy

Hi, That battery is used for very low current drain items, so will have a very very short life testing LEDs that will have same current drain as filament bulbs. 
Hoggy.


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## Lollypop86

The garage fixed mine  don't trust myself to do something like this properly!

J
Xx


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## mullum

Hoggy said:


> Hi, That battery is used for very low current drain items, so will have a very very short life testing LEDs that will have same current drain as filament bulbs.
> Hoggy.


I'll start a thread elsewhere John, cheers.


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## EnthusiastOwned

Hey guys,

I think I have a similar problem.

My indicators work fine, as does my hazard, however after using the indicators I can hear a relay behind the centre console spazzing out. Clicking quickly and randomly. My lights aren't flashing though - as far as I can tell.

Does this sound like a sticking relay which can be fixed by this guide?


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## John-H

EnthusiastOwned said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I think I have a similar problem.
> 
> My indicators work fine, as does my hazard, however after using the indicators I can hear a relay behind the centre console spazzing out. Clicking quickly and randomly. My lights aren't flashing though - as far as I can tell.
> 
> Does this sound like a sticking relay which can be fixed by this guide?


That sounds more like a bad contact and that could be your indicator stem switch. Try moving the stem slightly when they are on to see if you can induce it. Also is it one side only?


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## EnthusiastOwned

John-H said:


> EnthusiastOwned said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> I think I have a similar problem.
> 
> My indicators work fine, as does my hazard, however after using the indicators I can hear a relay behind the centre console spazzing out. Clicking quickly and randomly. My lights aren't flashing though - as far as I can tell.
> 
> Does this sound like a sticking relay which can be fixed by this guide?
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds more like a bad contact and that could be your indicator stem switch. Try moving the stem slightly when they are on to see if you can induce it. Also is it one side only?
Click to expand...

Ahh, so you think it could be the stalk?

Thinking about it, the passenger side indicator might be the only side which does it. I've just done 200 miles and it hasn't done it once though. I'll have to play around with it.


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## fishchicken

Just followed this and rectified my broken indicators. Thank you, great guide


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## bobclive22

Did mine about a year ago and they are still OK, mine had the small relay, used 600 grade wet & dry.


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## Cipo

I might have similar problem but not sure if I have to replace the unit.
The hazard works ok and all night bulbs are ok. The indicator lights go on once and stay on all the time, no flashing.
Previously the problem was random alternating time when everything was working ok. No suddenly both sides have the same problem: basically lost the blinking capability (hazard blinks and works ok though).
Should I replace the unit ?
Found one new on ebay for 44.85GBP, is it a right price ?
THX
CIPO


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## Hoggy

Hi, 2 relays in the Hazard switch so repair or replace, up to you.
Hoggy.


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## John-H

Try giving it a whack with your knuckles. That may free off the relay contacts if you are lucky but it will probably do it again until you clean them up.


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## Cipo

I will first give it a try cleaning it, I am comfortable with PCB and electronics but the issue seems more related to removing the radio (or building the right keys)  Any idea where can I find a "blue print" of the keys ?
Also any suggestions where t buy the unit in case I will need to replace it ?
THX


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## John-H

First post on thread has link to keys with part numbers. You can order them from Audi and the switch too.


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## Rarebit7

Hi,

For making keys I have always used this template and an old AA card:

http://www.eurodrivers.ca/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1982&stc=1&d=1175480034

Worked every time


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## Cipo

GREAT ! thx


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## Cipo

John-H said:


> Try giving it a whack with your knuckles. That may free off the relay contacts if you are lucky but it will probably do it again until you clean them up.


  WOAH !!! I whack it and now it works !  It was clearly stuck.
I am sure I am just buying time but at least I am not in a rush anymore.
Actually I can't even find the slots to remove the radio !

Thx alot JOHN !!!


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## Lollypop86

I'm tackling my stalk on the weekend, Skeee gave me the bits to do it with......already had the relay replaced once urgh 

J
xx


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## Tone

Did this repair today and it works thanks, saved me £50 or so, just before I go on holiday.


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## tommatt90

Mine looked different to the picture. Sprayed with contact cleaner and it now works


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## old225chap

Eventually got to the take it apart bit (cannot see how everyone says it easy.. removed locking bar fine but could NOT prise the end off without breaking the 2 small bars of plastic that the locking bar works against..... ) to discover mine looks like the picture above - no contacts to clean. So how did you clean it ???????????????? The contacts are inside the sealed units. Do you think you`ve just been lucky? Mine is marked 8NO 941 509 *B* by the way. So I`d suggest if yours is a B...just buying a new switch to save wasting time. £52 !! That's more than my Toyotas cost me in 5 years!!! :lol:


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## John-H

You missed the bit where it says:



John-H said:


> Note: Audi's supplier has revised the switch design. It's fit and function identical but just slightly different internals. It'll be the relays becoming obsolete that's driven this change.
> 
> Still, same principals apply but the contacts are difficult to get to as the relays are shrouded. Here are the data sheets for those two relays:
> 
> G8N-1
> G8NW-2
> 
> The first one is for the single pole changeover - the smaller one of the two and the one that flashes the indicators.
> 
> With these, and as you've got nothing to loose, you can try cutting away the plastic case of the relay - it's only a thin protective cover. If you cut around the top (file off the edges) you should be able to pull the lid off as it where and see inside. Don't cut too deep for fear of damaging the coil. Then do the side edges (bending the sides down and breaking away) and you'll expose the insides, which should look similar in principal to the original open frame design. If you have a soldering iron you will find it easier with the relay removed from the PCB.


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## tommatt90

Ahh never saw that!


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## bobclive22

Mine was the micro, did it about 9 months ago and its still OK,


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## miknix

Thank you a lot for this great guide! It allowed me to repair my own relay:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1422650

By the way, you guys could just replace all your blinker lamps with LEDs. LEDs have a very low inductance which don't create sparks in the relay when it's switched. Even if the relay has already a bit of carbon build up, replacing with LEDs should allow it to operate for many more years.


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## John-H

miknix said:


> Thank you a lot for this great guide! It allowed me to repair my own relay:
> viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1422650
> 
> By the way, you guys could just replace all your blinker lamps with LEDs. LEDs have a very low inductance which don't create sparks in the relay when it's switched. Even if the relay has already a bit of carbon build up, replacing with LEDs should allow it to operate for many more years.


That's a thought but there will be a problem with the bulb failure detection. If less current is drawn, e.g. if one of the two rear left (or right) bulbs fail, then the indicators will flash at double speed. That's only a small drop in current detected.

You'd need to get LED bulbs with extra resistors that draw the same current which defeats the object somewhat and gets hot.

I had thought of bridging the relay contacts with a capacitor or snubber network to absorb the spark energy but didn't bother in the end given how infrequently it fails.


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## miknix

Most automotive LED lamps I see nowadays already come with resistors in there - they call it "LED lamp anti-error OBD" or something like that. The resistors in the LEDs don't increase inductance that much, nothing compared to an incandescent bulb. But yes, they do increase power consumption compared to a LED without those resistors, but still better than using incandescent bulbs and should prevent creating those damn sparks in the relays 8)

Otherwise, it isn't that hard to hack the hazard light module to use solid-state relays and a 555 timer, there is plenty of room inside the module! Any takers? 



John-H said:


> miknix said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you a lot for this great guide! It allowed me to repair my own relay:
> viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1422650
> 
> By the way, you guys could just replace all your blinker lamps with LEDs. LEDs have a very low inductance which don't create sparks in the relay when it's switched. Even if the relay has already a bit of carbon build up, replacing with LEDs should allow it to operate for many more years.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a thought but there will be a problem with the bulb failure detection. If less current is drawn, e.g. if one of the two rear left (or right) bulbs fail, then the indicators will flash at double speed. That's only a small drop in current detected.
> 
> You'd need to get LED bulbs with extra resistors that draw the same current which defeats the object somewhat and gets hot.
> 
> I had thought of bridging the relay contacts with a capacitor or snubber network to absorb the spark energy but didn't bother in the end given how infrequently it fails.
Click to expand...


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## John-H

Incandescent lamps are not inductive but mainly resistive. They do have a cold inrush current though. I just measured a 21W (12V x 1.75A so 6.8A) indicator lamp at 0.5 ohms cold, which works out to 24A and 288W! So obviously they heat up rapidly and increase resistance to their rated operating condition.

You get side light LED bulbs sold as not triggering a bulb failure alarm but the current detection threshold is often very low. The courtesy light I know for a fact is prevented from triggering by as little as a 500 ohm resistor (24mA <0.5W).

Testing the indicator lamps shows that the removal of one bulb, so reducing the load from 42W at the rear to 21W does however trigger the double rate flash warning. So that test seems to indicate (excuse the pun) that you need a high wattage replacement in order not to trigger the double rate flash.

It's a legal or at least a standards requirement to indicate the failure of an indicator bulb in this way - so the threshold must be a good few watts over 21W, possibly 30W, which in turn means an LED replacements must be a high power (>>15W) consumption in order not to trigger.

You could certainly replace the relay with a solid state switch but integrating it might be tricky in the space. The oscillator is already there so you'd just need the relay coil drive to feed the mosfet gate or transistor base of a replacement but it may need to be floating design. It's a single pole relay but you have the complication of the hazards double pole wired across and the routing of the indicator stalk which triggers operation. I'd need to check the wiring diagram to see if it would be easy.


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## SPECSMAN

old225chap said:


> Eventually got to the take it apart bit (cannot see how everyone says it easy.. removed locking bar fine but could NOT prise the end off without breaking the 2 small bars of plastic that the locking bar works against..... ) to discover mine looks like the picture above - no contacts to clean. So how did you clean it ???????????????? The contacts are inside the sealed units. Do you think you`ve just been lucky? Mine is marked 8NO 941 509 *B* by the way. So I`d suggest if yours is a B...just buying a new switch to save wasting time. £52 !! That's more than my Toyotas cost me in 5 years!!! :lol:


Had similar problems myself, but got over it, albeit accidentally!

When the unit was apart, there were two dissimilar sized sealed black units; I used some nylon jawed pliers (an optical tool we use) to try to gently remove the cover "box". The cover was quite brittle and broke up. I then cleaned up the contacts as described.

TOP TIP! (I sound like Ed China!) the circuit board can be plugged back in to test it rather that reassembling all the fiddly bits to find our it hasn't worked. (you can't operate the hazards though).

On my car, the smaller of the components was the indicator relay.

My car is 1999, but I do not know if it has ever been replaced.

Hope this helps someone; my sincere thanks to the op; you have saved me the considerable cost of a new unit.

Specsman [smiley=toff.gif]


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## Sluggy

Great thread, thanks John-H for creating this as you saved me £68 from the stealers for a new unit, and thanks to everyone who contributed on this thread with further info - made it simple to understand even for a novice like myself!

I thought my story might encourage other people like myself take the plunge and give this a go, because £68 for a very simple part is taking the Micky, IMO.

On investigation of my hazard switch I found it was the newer version (with the 2 black boxes hiding the relays) and as identified here already the smaller of the two boxes contains the indicator relay so I gently scraped away at the side of the top edge with a sharp knife until I had removed enough plastic to expose the cavity underneath, then with the back of the knife blade (very thin blade) I carefully prised under the plastic and started to snap the black plastic off the relay to expose the contacts.

I did not have any abrasive material which would fit between that tiny contact gap, so at first I tried a thorough blowing of the unit (yes, my technical ability does include blowing on stuff, banging on stuff and scratching my head) and got a thin piece of paper between the contacts in an attempt to remove any foreign bodies. I reconnected the switch without re-assembling it in order to test it out and my indicators worked again! I was very tempted to hurriedly stuff my stereo back in place and rub my hands together in celebration of a job done well, but something told me to test it out a little - in fact after about 5 mins when re-tested the indicators were once again not blinking and as I had the switch open, I could see the relay was not moving.

So began the hunt for the elusive can of contact cleaner that the other half had kindly *tidied* along with most of my tools, But I couldn't find the stuff anywhere. In the end I used a little WD40 sprayed onto the contact itself and the top and bottom of the moving 'arm' which I then followed with a tiny strip of soft paper in the hope of absorbing any excess WD40. I passed several strips of paper through and around the contacts until I felt sure there was just a thin application and no 'pools', I was also hoping the very gentle abrasive action of paper rubbing may remove fine oxidation with the help of the WD40. During this process I had also managed to increase the contact gap ever so slightly by bending the metal just above it just a tiny bit - this would have to be corrected later on I found.

Another refit and nothing had happened, started to consider calling the stealer after all but I had come this far so I pressed on. Having the switch open and plugged in made it very easy to remove a few times and play with the contact gap width (yes I did remove the switch before touching anything on the board) and after a few attempts suddenly my indicators sprang back into life after a few hesitant and mis-timed blinks, and has since worked flawlessly!

I hope this might encourage anyone who like myself might be reluctant to start stripping down PCB components, the relay itself is a fairly simple mechanical component and if you can source the part would be a simple solder job to replace, however if you are terrible at soldering like me then just consider the fact that this failure is simply due to some tiny moving parts which are no longer moving - just free them up!

Thanks again to the OP and contributors, excellent work gentlemen!


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## John-H

We'll done. I've fixed mine twice now. I find the smallest jeweller's flat bladed screwdriver scraped across the contract faces cleans them up smooth and shiny.


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## acorn550

Yes OK mine has stopped flashing but does come on - and stay on. 
Found a replacement new Omron G8N-1 component on fleabay in Poland. £3.47 +p&p. Arrived in 4 days, took 5 minutes to desolder and resolder the new component to the PC board. Reassembled, into car and heh presto - job done and it works!!

Update: Price now increased to £5.47ea + £4.90P+P !!


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## John-H

Well done


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## ryanmtt

Great write up, I successfully got my indicators working again following this guide

Cheers


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## John-H

Excellent


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## ryanmtt

Yes thankyou John you're write ups are always spot on 8)


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## StuartDB

grrr I feel like such a newbie buying one for £45


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## Dieseljuice

Hi - Just fixed my daughters Mk1 TT faulty relay.
Can I add my tip for removing "hard to remove" radio that refuses to come out using the release tools.

I used a Prep Euro Filling Knife I had bought from Toolstation (google Prep Euro Filling Knife Set), the smallest one is just the right size to go round the radio freeing it from old age attachment to the dash surround.

I find the main issue is attachment at the side and so I pushed the filling knife in one side and used the release tool to edge the radio out a little, then same for the other side and after that radio came out easily.

Hope this helps someone.


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## John-H

Thanks for the suggestion


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## razputin1

My switch has just gone. A replacement seems to be £85+ :-( I hope this fix still repairs my switch in a 2004 TT


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