# Big Turbo - Yes Please!



## Wak (May 6, 2002)

There's a lot of Big Turbo talk at the moment and many observations being thrown about so figured I should write my own thoughts. 
Many may not know me or Morgan(UK225) but those that do will understand that perfection is always our aim and we do come from a background of trying to push the envelope ourselves.

We are owners and enthusiasts that have been through many of the issues others have come across, and some self inflicted issues through trying to push the hardware beyond its limits.

We've tried to get our own kit developed, we've helped some develop their kits and we've mapped many from stock, Hybrids to many Big Turbo kitted cars, we've been at the sharp end of hardware issues and driven and felt the profile of quite a few 1.8T turbo configurations.

We've experienced enough to have some pointers to success and we both also drive our cars daily so aiming for a daily driver that's reliable has always been the target for any mapping we have been involved with.
After having personally driven 2 turbos to death by driving them harder then specified, having gone down the cheaper paths and experienced varied levels of work from various sources We've gained enough experiences to make some informed opinions.
Cast Manifolds do crack, even uprated ones from the best recommendations which have had perfect EGT management can crack as can tubular designs specially some from ebay.

Somethings are core to spending your money wisely and this is to target a "reliable" setup for a 1.8t for the masses. although it will also work with the hard core that want the most and have a 2nd car to rely on but to target the best initial investment and getting something that could be your daily driver is were these key parts come in.

The best upgrade Turbo IMO is a GT2860RS or GT2868HTA for a Stock 1.8T where you are not going to push the boundaries of the head. 
Good advice says do rods and pistons going above 350, however I believe a healthy 210/225/240 based engine will be fine for the GT2860RS, the HTA is pushing it further and at at the boundaries where Rods should be considered.

At the outset you need a healthy well maintained engine and some complimentary mods:-
1. FMIC
2. A Catback Exhaust
3. uprated clutch
4. Good Maintenance history - ideally get an oil pressure check done as well to "hopefully" confirm a sound base.

With the above in place the following are what you should have as part of a BT build:-
1.Additional fuel pump
2.Bigger Injectors 
3.Turbo of choice

This is a recommendation to consider for the core of a BT build because this is where you can fall foul of many issues and I really like good strong designs which think about future maintenance as well as assembly.

http://www.tsr-performance.com has been quietly working on VAG vehicles for many years and they have an excellent manifold and dp solution and they can accommodate custom fabrications in house and quality engine upgrades as well around any install being considered.

I like designs that are well thought out and this has been the best by a long long way its nicely overengineered which in the original traditions of German cars is refreshing, its a 1.8T Manifold and DP solution which has been track tested as well as road tested with zero issues.

They do an external wastegate solution but this setup is for internally wastegated T25 based Turbos, so
GT2860,2868,2871's will fit for sure as could a few others space dependant and TSR could get the design modified for anything unusual within reason.

The kit is made up of the following...
3", 3 Piece Downpipe and cat section 
Vband top, and mid DP joint to allow for ease of installation and maintenance, the split design means you can work with this lot without removing the subframe.

























EGT and Lambda Bungs in the top section









100cell sports cat section - test pipe optional









Manifold - 3mm 321 grade stainless steel. All flanges are lazer cut and the welds are back purged - external gate optional

















If you look at this engine shot and the pics above, look at the bolt access, there is so much space to make fitting
and maintenance easier. 

















The Lambda in this position is easily maintainable.









3" DP is tight but clearance is fine. (additional heat shielding is installed behind existing shielding.)

























Here is a neat adapter plate for the Turbo to V-Band which means ease of maintenance and assembly for the future.
Release the V-band to get the DP out and access to all adapter bolts is much simpler.
Also if you had an unusual turbo configuration a short Vband adapter to flange is all that needs to be fabricated to adapt this setup









The Actuator is my own request to keep it turbo mounted so has been modified for the angles.
Turbo Outlet is virtually OEM positioned









Stock look is achieved by this design.









custom 3" tip finishes up the configuration which TSR can fabricate for specific needs.









Apart from bling there is no shouting out loud.









Good design does cost but from the experiences we've had, the initial outlay is easily paid for by not having to revisit things.

So on the first leg with a sensible turbo you'll get 330-360 still with excellent mid-range torque, try going bigger and you end up in the battle against lag vs available rpm, vs capacity vs engine modifications vs costs.

If you want to venture down the BT path give Rob at http://www.tsr-performance.com a call to get a package created but this solution works nicely and with the right supporting upgrades and mapping it should be a reliable solution.


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## Diveratt (Aug 31, 2009)

Thanks Wak now I know where to go when my turbo goes pop  glad to see it fits in under the GTT brace.


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## Rich196 (Mar 31, 2011)

Good write up Wak, don't get me tempted.
But........ what kind of price are we looking at to get this setup up and running. Just a guide price!
and how long will an average mileage engine with good service history last with standard internals on a big turbo setup?


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## neilc (Aug 8, 2011)

Nice write up. I suppose the only thing I havent had changed is my clutch but rest assured if it does go then an uprated one would be fitted.

I totally agree that the 350 BHP ish area is the most effective as it keeps an OE feel just with significantly more power and I hope long term reliability.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

TSR brings back some very good memories for me from my Mk1 Cabrio tuning days.

I'm aware the new/current owners of the company are working hard and striving to
put this company back where it belongs and I wish them well.

The quality of the kit speaks for itself as does uglies sorry Waks write up.

What is the cost of the kit including fitting please I ask
as it the only bit of info missing.

Looking on it from my viewpoint (350 kit) yes it costs money but the enjoyment I
get is simply priceless.


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

Now that seems a sensible waste of money :lol: 
Actually it all sounds very good, professional and reasonable without bottom end strengthening required. Proven and reliable would be what 95% of us would plum for I would guess without going into silly money and the issues we have often read about. Well done Wak great write up and of much interest for the majority of us.


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## E3 YOB (Mar 2, 2010)

Mugs game :lol:


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## ViperOneZero (Sep 4, 2008)

And fully achievable by a competent mechanic with a tool box.. Ie if we were to get the parts, then mapping would be the only issue.

once a definitive component list is sorted then self procurement is the way ahead .


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## NoMark (Jul 6, 2011)

Those photo's are pure automotive porn. The quality of the workmanship is there for all to see.

Just wish I had the pennies to get it done [smiley=bigcry.gif] One day, one day! 

Mark.


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

I hate threads like this that make me want to do more to my car!

Great write up Wak, certainly looks like the way to go if/when my K04's taken its last breath!


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

TTsline02 said:


> I hate threads like this that make me want to do more to my car!
> 
> Great write up Wak, certainly looks like the way to go if/when my K04's taken its last breath!


Last time I heard your turbo Matt it sounded a bit wheezy to me. Prevention is better than cure. Now get it done.


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## ViperOneZero (Sep 4, 2008)

les said:


> TTsline02 said:
> 
> 
> > I hate threads like this that make me want to do more to my car!
> ...


my clutch is slipping. any recommendations :lol: :lol:

only joking


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## holliett (Sep 17, 2010)

I'm loving these threads recently, it's makin me more eager to get mine done!


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

GunnerGibson said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> > TTsline02 said:
> ...


 :lol: :lol:


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

GunnerGibson said:


> And fully achievable by a competent mechanic with a tool box.. Ie if we were to get the parts, then mapping would be the only issue.
> 
> once a definitive component list is sorted then self procurement is the way ahead .


I hear and agree with you Gibbo BUT the throwaway line "mapping would be the only issue" would come back and bite you financially big time.

Call any good tuner (vagcheck, tt shop, awesome) and ask them for a quote to bespoke map a self made BT car from scratch, you might get a little bit of a shock


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## TTsline02 (Dec 9, 2008)

leave Les alone, he loves his MK1 diesel!


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## ViperOneZero (Sep 4, 2008)

If the tuner has tuned a car in a similar guise then I cannot see why it would require any more than a couple of hours on the rollers for tweaking.

I'd factor in £500 for a mapping session.


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

BT's upgrades are a minefield but like wheels the stage of going to 19" wheels from 18" is nice and works fine, try 20" and its a whole new world of pain.

Take a sensible approach at the next level of BT upgrade and you can get a excellent upgrade which most will love and live with happily.

Go for a sensible upgrade turbo, get a good company with a clever solution like TSR to bolt on the rest and you'll end up with a circa 350 bhp which is immensely fun and driveable and well suited to a 1.8t.

Cost you are best asking TSR to quote as there isnt always a one size fits all kit but TSR do have a good knowledge of what works and will be able to create a great solution.

If you want to embark on higher gains and higher pressure turbo's then they can help there as well but thats when you get into definite engine modifications and capacity considerations to try and keep it good for the road and track.


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

Hi Wak, 
I have some recent experience of when BT's go bad. I am not that bothered that the turbo needed replacing as its a hazard of the territory but the difficulty me and Lee experienced getting it out was a nightmare. In the end we took the entire engine out. Anyone embarking on this route should always have maintenance and access in mind, as not everyone is fortunate enough to have a friend like Lee with their own garage lol.
Anyway, I personally love my Big turbo TT  just a pity we fixed it two weeks two late for the North South RR or I might have got to meet you.

Matt


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## Diveratt (Aug 31, 2009)

Don't worry Matt I'm sure there will be another one next year.


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

Diveratt said:


> Don't worry Matt I'm sure there will be another one next year.


Lets hope so 

Got a feeling the way my car is running it will beat my only other dyno run of 357. Butt dyno tells me so lol


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Matt B said:


> Diveratt said:
> 
> 
> > Don't worry Matt I'm sure there will be another one next year.
> ...


ditto


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## Diveratt (Aug 31, 2009)

V6RUL said:


> Matt B said:
> 
> 
> > Diveratt said:
> ...


Steve chances are you are still going to running in


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

TTsline02 said:


> leave Les alone, he loves his MK1 diesel!


Wait till I get you within my clutches anyway OEM clutches and my car don't sound like a diesel :wink:

I would be more than happy with a car that gave me around 350bhp with lots of torque providing it was reliable and lasted the course with non of those (what some would call mega :roll "teething problems" as some people refer to them as. :wink:


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## joehirth (Oct 12, 2011)

Well said Wak, I think there are always hidden costs involved with BT conversions that people don't factor in. There are so many things to go wrong (as experienced first hand) that said I don't think I would go back the smiles it puts on your face is just worth anything, especially showing up cars which aren't expecting it .


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

joehirth said:


> the smiles it puts on your face is just worth anything, especially showing up cars which aren't expecting it .


Got it in one :wink:


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## bigsyd (Jul 9, 2008)

TTsline02 said:


> I hate threads like this that make me want to do more to my car!
> 
> Great write up Wak, certainly looks like the way to go if/when my K04's taken its last breath!










I feel the force is weak in this young Jedi

To all the "doubters" and what "iffers" you are a fooking long time dead and a minuscule time alive...just do it [smiley=dude.gif] [smiley=dude.gif] [smiley=dude.gif] 
Power under your right foot rocks my world and seems to make me forget my aches and pains
I will get my coat


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## Pensive666 (Jun 18, 2011)

Please Stop. I am not allowed to anything of the sort until I have paid the car off, and that is currently going to be at least two years.

Pictures of curly shiny metal things are just teasing me further. I do protest. [smiley=bigcry.gif]

Personally I quite like the idea of anything which can run on the standard internals, as soon as you pull the guts out, you're in replacement car territory (for me).

I'm hoping that within two years I will have:

1) uprated the brakes (as they need doing, so they shall be beasted)
2) worn out the exhaust (as it needs doing, so it shall be beasted)
3) worn out the shocks ( as it needs doing, so it shall be beasted)
4) Worn out the ARBs and bushings! ( as it needs doing, so it shall be beasted)

:mrgreen:

all of which basically cover most of the essential parts. Chances of killing the springs are low, but there's always ebay...they'll have to come out if I do the shocks anyway.

Hopefully by then I'll have a boring megadiesel daily car, and i can then run the TT as a weekend beast, remove the spare, back seats etc, and stick a 350 turbo in it for shits and giggles, with most of the surrounding requirements already-prepped.

But this is all a pipedream.......


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

The exhausts never wear out get you hacksaw out and lend it a hand :wink:


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

anyone got any figures for performance of the 350 BT cars? 0-60 0-100 1/4 mile? and not made up ones or because you think it might hit 60 in 3s


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Danny1 said:


> anyone got any figures for performance of the 350 BT cars? 0-60 0-100 1/4 mile? and not made up ones or because you think it might hit 60 in 3s


Danny do any of those figures really matter in the real world I don't know why people obsess over them surely it's how the car drives and trust me it drives quick :wink: very I class myself as a sensible driver but I have to keep telling myself off and making myself slow down because on boost they are soooooo much fun

I've done 2 0-60 runs (blame Steve Caney he said the best technique was not to do them. red rag to a bull etc etc)

First run I missed a gear change and kangaroed down the road

Second run was 4.6s which isn't half bad for a fat bloke in a heavy ragtop.


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## neilc (Aug 8, 2011)

James is spot on , a 350 BT feels mighty. I reckon 0-60 4.5 and 0-100 in 10 ish. Certainly feels quicker than my previous RS4 V8 and that was quick !


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

neilc said:


> James is spot on , a 350 BT feels mighty. I reckon 0-60 4.5 and 0-100 in 10 ish. Certainly feels quicker than my previous RS4 V8 and that was quick !


What boost are you running Neil?


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Matt B said:


> neilc said:
> 
> 
> > James is spot on , a 350 BT feels mighty. I reckon 0-60 4.5 and 0-100 in 10 ish. Certainly feels quicker than my previous RS4 V8 and that was quick !
> ...


He has got the same kit as mine Matt (-decat) so will be the same bud.

NOTE TO NEIL
Dont do logging runs for the northern monkey hanger they never end :wink:


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## AmpTThill (Sep 18, 2011)

Great info wak. I was told about atp's gt28rs eliminator kit that uses stock mani & dp for 350 bhp.

Anyone use this kit or is it the enemy? I would go for BT but would mean changing my profile pic...


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

AmpTThill said:


> Great info wak. I was told about atp's gt28rs eliminator kit that uses stock mani & dp for 350 bhp.
> 
> Anyone use this kit or is it the enemy? I would go for BT but would mean changing my profile pic...


Just don't see a standard manifold doing 350 myself but hey I might be wrong (Im not often)


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

AmpTThill said:


> Great info wak. I was told about atp's gt28rs eliminator kit that uses stock mani & dp for 350 bhp.
> 
> Anyone use this kit or is it the enemy? I would go for BT but would mean changing my profile pic...


Look for username John D who has been running one at about 320 for a couple of years


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

jamman said:


> Matt B said:
> 
> 
> > neilc said:
> ...


He may have a proper mans boost gauge though  so I may get some proper info


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## AmpTThill (Sep 18, 2011)

Yeah the stock manifold was my concern too. Had a mate with a 2871r on an s3, he went custom manifold and it cracked in the 1st week. Guess it's all about buying proven quality.


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## kazinak (Mar 23, 2010)

jamman said:


> AmpTThill said:
> 
> 
> > Great info wak. I was told about atp's gt28rs eliminator kit that uses stock mani & dp for 350 bhp.
> ...


300-320 max with stock manifold and dp, i've read on american forum about it , the kit cost just over a grand back there , which sound quite reasonable


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Matt B said:


> He may have a proper mans boost gauge though  so I may get some proper info


Here I was thinking I was your logging biatch.

I'm so hurt.

Logged today using Vag Com was the same but you prob don't care about me any more [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## neilc (Aug 8, 2011)

jamman said:


> Matt B said:
> 
> 
> > neilc said:
> ...


HA HA , Thanks James , logging what logging :lol:


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

jamman said:


> Matt B said:
> 
> 
> > He may have a proper mans boost gauge though  so I may get some proper info
> ...


LMAO Ure still my logging biatch 

I just need to know what your real boost is lol. Vagcom cant tell you as the MAP sensor is maxxed out by about 1.5 bar


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## Pensive666 (Jun 18, 2011)

My logs own all your logs


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## ViperOneZero (Sep 4, 2008)

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-164&Category_Code=VVWTK

I think that is the cheapest you are going to get decent reliable power.. unless someone reverse engineers the kit over here :mrgreen:


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## turbo87 (Aug 3, 2009)

Good to see that there are a few "of the shelf" big turbo kits now. This one looks well thought out. If I were to go big turbo again I would be spoilt for choice.

Wak it was about time you pushed the boat out for a big turbo kit, I could see it coming with yout R&D. This kit looks good!


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Is a nice bit of kit Gibbo but you will be sitting there wishing you had changed the manifold within about 10
minutes because it will be strangling the system to the tune of anywhere upto 50 bhp.

I think if you are going to go stage 1 BT (310-350) you have to change the manifold because it makes no sense not to.


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## turbo87 (Aug 3, 2009)

jamman said:


> Is a nice bit of kit Gibbo but you will be sitting there wishing you had changed the manifold within about 10
> minutes because it will be strangling the system to the tune of anywhere upto 50 bhp.
> 
> I think if you are going to go stage 1 BT (310-350) you have to change the manifold because it makes no sense not to.


I agree with you, its tried and tested the manifold plays a key role along with how the engine breathes.

For example look what Bill demonstrated with the K04 hybrid using stock and aftermarket manifolds. In order for that turbo to acheive the power figures rated by the companies that hybrid the turbos aftermarket manifolds are a must and the same applies to "big turbos"


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## stevebeechTA (May 16, 2009)

excellent write up WAK Thanks, this certainly does seem a feasible route to go, I have a 180 quattro, would the same principles apply, although I do realise the bhp would not be so great, what would the end result be? does anyone know. And before any one says, I do not want a 225 and then do it, it would be a case of doing it to what I have got.


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## AmpTThill (Sep 18, 2011)

I think there's a market for an off the shelf kit - turbo + manifold that fits to existing dp and retains the stock look.

I'd buy that for 350 bhp.


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## R80RTT (Feb 5, 2011)

turbo87 said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > Is a nice bit of kit Gibbo but you will be sitting there wishing you had changed the manifold within about 10
> ...


I ve finally had my downpipe sorted and its made a hugh difference already....


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

R80RTT said:


> turbo87 said:
> 
> 
> > jamman said:
> ...


Lets see, on the strip...  
Steve


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Only strip Richard likes is in canal street,Manchester :lol:

Richard what's a "hugh difference" ? :-*


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## ViperOneZero (Sep 4, 2008)

jamman said:


> Only strip Richard likes is in canal street,Manchester :lol:
> 
> Richard what's a "hugh difference" ? :-*


Brother of Hugh Janus


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

turbo87 said:


> Good to see that there are a few "of the shelf" big turbo kits now. This one looks well thought out. If I were to go big turbo again I would be spoilt for choice.
> 
> Wak it was about time you pushed the boat out for a big turbo kit, I could see it coming with yout R&D. This kit looks good!


Waddya mean about time,  I've been running a homegrown BT kit for 5 odd years from 330-380 bhp, my point on this post is I've done it the hard way and the wrong way and the bad ways so its painful and stressing.

Between the TSR bits and the ancilliaries we could have a very nice suite of bits but its only an enthusiast that will be willing to spend more than their cars worth to make its appeal last longer.



AmpTThill said:


> I think there's a market for an off the shelf kit - turbo + manifold that fits to existing dp and retains the stock look.
> 
> I'd buy that for 350 bhp.


Been there done that and made a respectable 396 on the last rollers but lets face facts by my rekoning and mapping 380 is what I believe it was really putting out. ( Had Liquid on when it was measured and Liquid gave 379bhp, I prefer to believe it based on the Boost pressure I know she's running)

I've proven a "slightly" modified oem downpipe can flow enough for the high powers but it doesnt breath well for spool, ( last rolling road was on the oem DP ) 
Having just changed over to TSR's setup, back to back, same mapping and actuator crack pressure I'm getting the same top end on airflow ( Liquid) that I got on the rollers but my midrange and spool is much quicker with the manifold and DP. Where I had mapped surge out it was back again and Ive had to map it out again.

Just to be clear in why the top end boost hasnt changed....... I do have a known leak above 1.5 bar to address and top end is being regulated down by this so for sure so for now I can only speculate that this manifold and DP will improve the entire rev range not just the gains Ive seen. Investing in the quality here stands you in good shape for further engine mods and bigger flowing turbos if thats a step for the future but I've learnt the bolt to oem manifolds and downpipes is a restrictive path to take and a false economy.

Your effectively slapping a V8 engine in and using an induction and exhaust from a Nissan Micra..... Make the Turbo inlet and outlet the best it can be so you can exploit the maximum designed capability from the turbo of choice and not be restricted elsewhere.

Plus this also satisfies the preference for an oem looking engine bay setup some of us love!


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Interesting thread Wak! 

How long have you been running this set-up? Tim Stiles is a name from long ago that I remember from Golf GTi days. TSR and GTi Engineering were always trying to outdo each other and I seem to remember TSR lost out eventually.

I'd be interested to hear your opinion about the suitability of my car for a similar upgrade. You are well aware of the history with my turbo (since you diagnosed the crazy map the car was running) but amazingly it's still performing well. But what about the general health/mileage of my car (83k now)?

A ball-park cost estimate would be useful (PM if you prefer), I won't bother TSR for a price because it is out of the question for me to do this anytime soon. I'm just thinking of the future when my stock turbo finally gives up the ghost. Of course the sensible route would be to do it before it goes bang and if funds become available and I still have the car then all this seems like a quality and reliable upgrade - something we're all forced to take seriously in times of austerity!

Cheers mate,

Rich


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## Brendanb86 (Feb 12, 2011)

Welcome to The TT Forum - It *makes* you spend money....


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## holliett (Sep 17, 2010)

Brendanb86 said:


> Welcome to The TT Forum - It *makes* you spend money....


+1!


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

jamman said:


> Is a nice bit of kit Gibbo but you will be sitting there wishing you had changed the manifold within about 10
> minutes because it will be strangling the system to the tune of anywhere upto 50 bhp.
> 
> I think if you are going to go stage 1 BT (310-350) you have to change the manifold because it makes no sense not to.


New high performance engine, GT2871r w/56 trim, APR stage 3+ tuned . . . but no one wanted to change the intake manifold! APR's 3+ didn't have an intake manifold (had a heavily engineered exhaust manifold, but no IM mod). They came up with one later, but they said they couldn't keep cars running when their new IM was installed. They gave up . . . and then eventually stopped offering the 225 stage 3+ tuning because it was too expensive (worked well, just no one was buying it, except me I suppose).

So, my race shop is reluctant to do anything with the IM because of APR's experience. From your quote and this thread, it seems my performance is severely limited because of the stock IM. Any suggestions? You may just say leave it alone given my car runs well and in my perception is as fast and accelerating as anything I've ever had. But . . . I've never just left anything alone.  Thanks!


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## Diveratt (Aug 31, 2009)

Hi Vrroom, when you look at the sixe of the pipe work on the stock manifold it's easy yo see why the a tubular setup breaths better the BT boys have the issues do different flange setup to so there is no other real option for then. It would be interesting to to find out where APR were having IM problems as in surprised that they could not get the car to run, it may be that the problem is cracks & failures as I know some of the OEM & after mart cast manifolds suffer.

Looking at the TSR manifold that Wak posted details of it is fabricated tubular manifold so the issues are a bit different but even they are not immune from cracking. They are not so far away from me so I may pay them a visit in the new year. But from past experiance I know that once you start down the road of chasing extra power projects grow arms and legs and you need deep pockets  tempting though.

PS are your vented wings OSIR? And do they vent anything or are they just cosmetic.


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

Diveratt said:


> PS are your vented wings OSIR? And do they vent anything or are they just cosmetic.


Hi Diveratt! Yes, they are OSIR. And the vents are real in that they open up to the fender . . . and there is part of the engine area that opens up to the fender as well. Whether they actually do anything effective though I'm sure is open to speculation. I suppose they do allow more air to flow across the intercooler/s. They were designed to emulate the original concept car prototype and are meant to vent the air flowing across the side-mounted OEM intercoolers. But . . . I now have a center-mounted intercooler; however, the rest of the engine area does open to the fenders about a third of the way back. I suppose if one wanted to vent the dammed-up back of the engine area that could be opened up too. For me, I got them because I liked the look . . . and I liked the idea of returning that portion of the car back to the original concept design . . . plus I wanted to distinguish that area of the TT from its Volkswagon roots with the company's cross-model stock side signal.


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## Diveratt (Aug 31, 2009)

thought they were its a nice look the full OSIR carbon bonnet etc is a bit OTT but the wings look good.

I did some under bonnet temp logs the other day and I was getting around 40C, 20C around the air filter but that has a heat shield and a monster cold air feed, the air temp was about 12C so there is still a lot of heat getting to the air filter. Extra vents will always help


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

Diveratt said:


> thought they were its a nice look the full OSIR carbon bonnet etc is a bit OTT but the wings look good


Thanks Diveratt!


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## Vrroom (Oct 8, 2011)

Diveratt said:


> Hi Vrroom, when you look at the sixe of the pipe work on the stock manifold it's easy yo see why the a tubular setup breaths better the BT boys have the issues do different flange setup to so there is no other real option for then. It would be interesting to to find out where APR were having IM problems as in surprised that they could not get the car to run, it may be that the problem is cracks & failures as I know some of the OEM & after mart cast manifolds suffer.
> 
> Looking at the TSR manifold that Wak posted details of it is fabricated tubular manifold so the issues are a bit different but even they are not immune from cracking. They are not so far away from me so I may pay them a visit in the new year. But from past experiance I know that once you start down the road of chasing extra power projects grow arms and legs and you need deep pockets  tempting though.
> 
> PS are your vented wings OSIR? And do they vent anything or are they just cosmetic.


So . . . what intake manifold should I consider everyone? The SEM seems to be popular. Will that add some value? Will it work with my configuration? Is there any reason why it shouldn't? I've now got this bug to get a new intake manifold. I'm not proficient enough or confident enough to do this myself . . . so I'd buy it, and take it in to my Audi dealer (who are a great bunch of guys, very helpful, and bend over backwards to help me with my car . . . they're all tuners themselves).


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## maurinho (Jan 19, 2013)

hello, i love what you do did with your tt, i have the exact same tt year and everything and I am about to make the plunge into going big turbo. I was recommended to doing an eliminator kit with the gt2871r and rods, injectors, intake manifold, etc. With these turbos being not so large, is it possible I can still daily drive it? Thank you for your time and love your build!


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## Shinigami (Feb 21, 2013)

Why shouldn't you be able to drive it daily? It's just a bigger turbo and you won't take off on acceleration :roll:


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

maurinho said:


> hello, i love what you do did with your tt, i have the exact same tt year and everything and I am about to make the plunge into going big turbo. I was recommended to doing an eliminator kit with the gt2871r and rods, injectors, intake manifold, etc. With these turbos being not so large, is it possible I can still daily drive it? Thank you for your time and love your build!


If I had to buy another turbo I would try a GTX2867 as the closest rival to my hybrid GT2868HTA. I wouldnt go to a GT2860RS again and I believe a GT2871R will be just that bit more laggy that I wouldnt enjoy midrange any more.

you are looking at around 300ftlbs midrange 3500-4500 boost to avoid surge and then more power/ torq after 4500 rpm In my opinion with a GT2871 , the torque comes in a bit earlier 3200 with a slightly smaller turbo.

it may seem trivial and a few 100 rpm improvement but mines a daily driver and for me the 1.8T's puff has an optimal turbo and a balanced delivery that a GT2871 is just that bit over the wrong side of even though up top it could be more exciting.

Maybe some 1.8T GT2871 owners can add their opinion! .


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

Wak, are you not a fan of the efr range of turbo's.....they seem to offer quite a lot for the money


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

2871r on an eliminator - no thanks mate.
I ran 2871r on full t25 manifold 1.8 and now 2.0 turbo so I have plenty of experience.
If you are going 2l then great but on 1.8 then I would look elsewhere
If I was you I would only think gtx 2867r with a proper manifold and dp like the tsr one. Eliminator is not good for performance at all and strangles the turbo


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## Grahamstt (Jul 22, 2008)

Matt
How does the Owens HTA 2868 compare to the GTX 2867.
On paper they are almost the same but does the extra work as a hybrid give the Owens one the edge?
I ask about the BW Efrs because they seem to be an easier installation and offer good spool - and come with the turbine housing which helps in the cost department.
I already have my exhaust man which is T25

Cheers


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## L33JSA (Jun 30, 2010)

If I didnt already have a turbo I'd most definitely be going with a HTA one.....heard nothing but positive reviews about them


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

Grahamstt said:


> Wak, are you not a fan of the efr range of turbo's.....they seem to offer quite a lot for the money


Its not about being a fan but can only offer advice from personal experience, they may be fine turbos but either need to try one or need to be mapping one to say what I think.


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... ight=2867r


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