# 30 secs wait or a life? You decide...



## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

There's very little in the world that really gets me annoyed.... but I'm sorry, I've got to have a rant....

Some of you will know that apart from my TT the other main hobby of mine (ok ignoring the PC, the wife, the kids, and the home electronics projects, etc...) is my bike. A proper bicycle... the pedal powered variety. Now I'm no nancy fair weather cyclist, I'll cycle in anything... and I usually cycle in town rather than take the car, especially to work. I average around 150 miles/week on the bike. Now no pisstaking please, this is a serious issue. Tonight was one of the worst experiences I have had in several years of biking... and I nearly ended up under the wheels of some pratt's car on at least 3 occasions, which is more than the whole of last year.

The ignorance of basic road usage, and the stupidity of some drivers, especially on a night like tonight (pissing down and windy) beggars belief...

1/ Pulling into bus lane, despite it being illegal, no signals - "Sorry mate, didn't see you" :... despite the reflective jacket and the 2 x 25w halogen spot headlamps and the high intensity flashing white LEDs this is just basic failure to use mirrors - I'm sorry, I didn't realise the extra 1kg of battery I carry is just to keep me fitter!

2/ Driving straight on in a turn left only lane, undertaking and then squeezing between me and the parked car (in the bus lane :-/) 

3/ Turning left with no signals from a right hand lane, about 10ft in front of me 

4/ Crossing lights at red... (and before anyone else says it, yes I know some cyclists do, but I don't OK) 

5/ Buses that overtake just before a bus stop, despite knowing they have to pull in and stop almost immediately. 

6/ Pulling into the green zone at lights reserved for bikes (the pratt actually touched my rear wheel! - bloody Merc drivers, think they own the road, generalisation I know, but does seem to be the case...followed by BMW 3series owners) 

7/ Failing to give adequate room or waiting til safe to overtake... the highway code says you should give 3' clearance and 6' in windy conditions or on hills. It won't hurt to wait, you'll only save 10 seconds and I'll be back in front at the next set of lights anyway since I average 17+mph in London as against 8mph for cars... :

I'm sorry to say that at least one of these culprits was one of us... a TTR reg X585***... you came very close to having a handlebar-end shaped scratch all the way down the offside... and I would have been upset 'cos it wasn't the cars fault, it was the pratt behind the wheel.

I think most drivers, especially those that have never ridden a modern bike properly, fail to realise how quick a bike can be... 30-37km/h is not unreasonable on a flat bit and I can get to 50km/h downhill... but bikes DONT stop on a sixpence, even with discs it takes 20ft or so from normal cycling pace. And from a standing start at the lights, the power to weight ratio of a bike means that usually I'm away before the car has moved (OK above 10mph the car has a certain advantage).

So, all I ask is that next time you are out in your pride and joy, watch out for bikes, give them some respect and some clearance... especially in poor weather. You never know, they might be a TT owner too...


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

I suggest that you ride a static bicycle in the gym only. It is safer and will keep you fit and sane in the same time.

You can't change other people driving behaviour. Cars and bicycles are not happy together, unless there are dedicated cycle lanes.

So be safe and use your car or the public transport and exercise at home or cycle away from the town.


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

buzzzz... wrong answer... and for the record...
a) there are cycle lanes on most of the route... just most drivers seem oblivious of themm...

b) in Holland, Belgium and Germany where I have cycled extensively cars and bikes do co-exist happily and drivers do moderate their driving style... cos touch a bike and its a major issue....

anyway, have u used the tube in London recently.... give me a break


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

But this the UK. And as you have experienced people do not respect you in the London roads.

I only see a bicyle as a mean of entertainment and good exercise and not as a commuting medium in the busy London streets, that are full with deadly cars.

Have you ever though how much pollution you inhale when you cycle and you need clean air?

Is it worth it being overan by a car and suffer serious injury, permanent disability or even death?

Use the public transport to stay healthy and alive/uninjured.


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## UK225 (May 12, 2002)

Sorry to hear of your unpleasent journey Irving 

It has to be said though some cyclists are a hazard to drivers :-/

I am sure I read somewhere that if a bicycle & car hit each other now in the UK that it is automatically the drivers fault in the eyes of the law.

If its not in existance now it was something they were going to make law IIRC :-/


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

> Have you ever though how much pollution you inhale when you cycle and you need clean air?


15% weight for weight of what you'll inhale sitting in your car in the traffic jam as it happens, plus the added exercise will get the toxins out of my blood in an hour compared to the 5 it'll take yours...


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

> Sorry to hear of your unpleasent journey Irving Â


Thanks



> It has to be said though some cyclists are a hazard to drivers Â :-/


A small minority... and since when has a 20kg bike been a hazard to a driver cocooned in a tonne of steel?



> I am sure I read somewhere that if a bicycle & car hit each other now in the UK that it is automatically the drivers fault in the eyes of the law.
> 
> If its not in existance now it was something they were going to make law IIRC Â :-/


Somehting like that... in a recent civil court case, backed by one of the cycling organisations, a driver who had been convicted of pulling into a bus lane and knocking a cyclist off his bike (for which he got a Â£100 fine and 3 points) Â was ordered to pay Â£50,000 compensation. Â It is said he was refused insurance when it came up for renewal.....


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

> 15% weight for weight of what you'll inhale sitting in your car in the traffic jam as it happens, plus the added exercise will get the toxins out of my blood in an hour compared to the 5 it'll take yours...


When you cycle you inhale quicker than when you are at rest in your car and you are listening to the radio.

Also cars have a recirculate button, which I use quite a lot. Have you ever used it before?

But for central London the car is not an option anyway especially during rush hour. So you should consider public transport instead.


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

IrvingTT :- Sorry to hear about your journey home . It sounds like you had a lucky escape. It must have scared you and I hope you have safer journeys in the future .


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

> When you cycle you inhale quicker than when you are at rest in your car and you are listening to the radio.
> 
> Also cars have a recirculate button, which I use quite a lot. Have you ever used it before?
> 
> But for central London the car is not an option anyway especially during rush hour. So you should consider public transport instead.


My figures come from research done by the CTC for TfL... and have you used public transport in London recently? Its a joke... it wont be long before it'll be cheaper to use the car again


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

> IrvingTT :- Â Sorry to hear about your journey home Â . Â It sounds like you had a lucky escape. Â It must have scared you and I hope you have safer journeys in the future Â . Â


Thanks Abi...

Nooo, scary is doing flat out in the TT and someone pulling into your lane! This is not scary, just bloody annoying that some people can be so pig ignorant and stupid...

I think the next change to the driving test, now they've brought in theory, and car maintenance, should be to experience driving from other user's perspectives... including riding a bike.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

> My figures come from research done by the CTC for TfL... and have you used public transport in London recently? Â Its a joke... it wont be long before it'll be cheaper to use the car again


Well, read the research again and tell us this. What was the difference to the car driver, when the re-circulate button was operated?

I do not using public transport daily in London, but I use it from time to time. The tube is a lot better than the East Anglian trains coming to Liverpool Street station!


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## scott28tt (Jul 30, 2002)

Aaah, Lord V, the voice of reason again I see : 

Having been knocked clean off my racer by a car when I was 18, I have every sympathy with you Irving. I ended up with a broken thumb and wrist, the racer needed throwing in the nearest skip :-/

I'd like to think I'm very considerate of cyclists, but the number of car drivers all over the country who aren't is shocking.

The roads are for all of us to use and share, whatever we ride/drive.


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

I am glad there are some here who at least see the point of the original post , and thanks.

So, let me pose another... why do so many of these drivers only seem to have one answer....

You'd think, after politely (and I do mean politely) pointing out the error of their ways, most NORMAL people would say sorry, or at least appear embarrassed, wouldn't you? My experience is that the vast majority answer something of the form of "You wanna watch me get out and thump you, you ******." What is this sudden move to use violence as the only form of communication? Have we become a nation of mindless thugs all of a sudden? Or is it that the frustration of sitting in traffic going nowhere fast just shows up the futility of their lives and they are upset that someone like me can overcome this? (end of philosophical bit)

I am seriously thinking of replacing the bike pump (rarely used now I have reinforced tyres) with a length of steel piping... a) for protection and b) to vent MY frustrations on their poxy little rust buckets (ONLY JOKING... )


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

As a bike rider (proper one with an engine) I can only sympathise. IMO all car drivers should have compulsory CBT training to get both an understanding of what it is like to ride a bike and learn what observation is.

Myopic car drivers piss me off intensly.


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

Thanks (and I'll forgive 'proper one'  )


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## teucer2000 (May 14, 2002)

From the other viewpoint, cyclists don't do themselves any favours when a large number of them seem to think traffic lights are for cars only, one way lanes don't apply to them, pedestrians shouldn't be on the pavement they are riding on and that the idea of having lights on during the night is for wimps


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

> I am glad there are some here who at least see the point of the original post , and thanks.
> 
> So, let me pose another... why do so many of these drivers only seem to have one answer....
> 
> ...


Yes, you are right, a lot of people completely change into aggresive thugs once they get behind a wheel. The car takes the form of an shield, behind which drivers think they are invincible and can get away with any sort of behavior.

However, cyclists have their considerable faults too. The way most of them ignore traffic lights is unbelievable. And if you confront them about it, it is always met with the same sort of response IrvingTT received from the car drivers - ie "F*ck off".

Last night I was nearly hit by a cyclist. I was pulling out from a side road having been given way by a car in the stationary traffic. A cyclist was undertaking the queue of cars, and was going too fast to stop. Had she hit me, I don't know who would have been to blame, but there was little I could have done to avoid it. I know cyclists want to keep their momentum up, but sometimes this is at the risk of hitting cars and pedestrians. If they are going to cycle, they should accept that they will have to slow down occasionally - perhaps the average speed IrvingTT mentioned is too fast considering their poor braking ability, especially in the wet.

I do think however that our roads (especially in London) are poorly designed considering the number of bikes that use them. There should be considerably more cycle lanes, and bridges / tunnels at roundabouts. It would sort out a lot of traffic problems if more people used their bikes, and would probably go some way to cure the obesity problem that apparently is growing ever bigger.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Apparently, it is the power of the big over the small. I feel the same frustration with lorries. They are bigger than my TT and they use the size to their advantage. Overataking all the time creating tailbacks, they don't indicate etc.

Similar situation exists between cycles and cars. It is the small one that has to pay more attention as it will suffer the most damage in an accident.

This is human nature, I am afraid. The bigger you are, the more power you have.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

I think you would be in the wrong Raven.

The fact that one cars stops for you does not mean that

a) a cyclist could be coming up on the inside (perfectly legally too)
or 
b) a motorbike could be coming up on the outside.

I sympathise totally with you Irving given that for four years I also cycled 20 miles a day into and out of London. The only reason I don't now, is that because I've moved it would now mean a 60 mile a day commute.

Cars drivers are ignorant of cyclists, but like the Honda Jazz advert we all hate each other. It's very much a two-way thing - I learned pretty early on to ride as if you own the road and think as if you're invisible.

By that I mean claim your own bit of road and try to ensure that you're not squeezed into a position where people won't see you. But always assume that no one knows you're there.

Of course, as I'm sure you know, you can't predict everything that people are going to try. The worst culprits I found were pedestrians - especially those getting onto or off of those Routemaster busses.

I had someone jump off with a pull along suitcase right in front of me at the lights and I had someone run out from the kerb and try to catch the bus at the lights.

Much as I love those busses as a symbol of London, the fact that people can jump on and off whnever they feel like it - instead of just at bus stops makes them very dangerous.


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## raven (May 7, 2002)

> I think you would be in the wrong Raven.
> 
> The fact that one cars stops for you does not mean that
> 
> ...


I didn't know that it was legal for cyclists to undertake, but okay, if that is the case, when I pulled out into the road, the cyclist was nowhere near me. It was only because I stopped to make sure no motorbikes were overtaking the car that had let me out that she approached me at that silly pace. What's more, there was a red light the other side of me, so she would have had to stop anyway.


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

> ...if you confront them about it, it is always met with the same sort of response IrvingTT received from the car drivers - ie "F*ck off".


I can cope with that... but I was talking about (and have experienced) drivers who actually advocate physical violence as a means of addressing the situation...



> I learned pretty early on to ride as if you own the road and think as if you're invisible


Yes, I agree...think like you are a car, ride a minimum of 2ft out from the kerb and make exaggerated movements to ensure the guy behind is clear about what you plan to do... and even then you get pratts hooting you despite the fact they can't go more than a further 50yds before running into the back of the queue in front (white transit vans are good at this).

The other thing that annoys is the way that some drivers after overtaking you to gain that 50yds end up waiting in a queue and deliberately pull into the kerb to stop you going past. One guy the other day was so intent on making sure I couldn't go past on the inside he actually hit and mounted the kerb.



> The worst culprits I found were pedestrians - especially those getting onto or off of those Routemaster busses.


Yes, again I agree they are dangerous... and completely oblivious to the damage they can sustain... and in Central London, around Leicester Sq and Oxford Street the number of people who just cross the road without even looking behind them... I now have a really LOUD airhorn...makes 'em jump!


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> Thanks
> 
> A small minority... and since when has a 20kg bike been a hazard to a driver cocooned in a tonne of steel?


In Amsterdam, more pedestrians are now injured and killed each year by cycles than by cars and trams.

However I do think cyclists should be afforded more consideration by some motorists and vice versa. I see so many bikes with no or poor lighting and in darK apparell tearing in out out of city traffic as I do of course poorly driven and illuminated cars. Both are culpable.

My real interst is your 150 miles a week : 30 miles a day in an uraban situation. That's a lot of time in the saddle. Impressed.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

> My real interst is your 150 miles a week : Â 30 miles a day in an uraban situation. Â That's a lot of time in the saddle. Â Impressed.


And then you arrive in the office all sweaty and smelly!! : Not very good for public relations. ;D


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> And then you arrive in the office all sweaty and smelly!! : Not very good for public relations. Â ;D


All the cylists here are asked to change out of the ****-erotic lycra shorts etc, shower and change at work before commencing with their duties.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

That's what I love about MTBing - the clothes are so much baggier.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

..and in leather.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Leather? On a Moutain Bike - are you serious?

Or just a masochist?

I can't really imagine peddling to work in a gimp suit.


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

> And then you arrive in the office all sweaty and smelly!! : Not very good for public relations. Â ;D


Not heard of showers then V ???


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

> All the cylists here are asked to change out of the ****-erotic lycra shorts etc, shower and change at work before commencing with their duties.


lol...the girls here love my shorts


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> Leather? Â On a Moutain Bike - are you serious?
> 
> Or just a masochist?
> 
> I can't really imagine peddling to work in a gimp suit.


Thought MTBing meant motorbiking not moutain biking.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Nope. And I thought I was going to get a double whammy and correct your spelling mistake and then saw that, cleverly, you'd copied the way I spelled it in my quote above.


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

> lol...the girls here love my shorts


Or any good looking male in nice tight cycling shorts come to think of it  ;D


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> Nope. And I thought I was going to get a double whammy and correct your spelling mistake and then saw that, cleverly, you'd copied the way I spelled it in my quote above.


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## ColwynC (Sep 8, 2003)

> As a bike rider (proper one with an engine) I can only sympathise. IMO all car drivers should have compulsory CBT training to get both an understanding of what it is like to ride a bike and learn what observation is.
> 
> Myopic car drivers piss me off intensly.


Did my full bike test (motor bike not proficiency )about 8 years ago but actually never bought a bike. However, it did change my car driving habits tremendously as I realised just how vulnerable you are and just how stupid some car drivers are when wrapped up in the insulated warmth of their motors. I now give a lot more room to bikes and allow them space to pass without squeezing them into oncoming cars. They will be gone in seconds anyway. We all need to use the roads so why not show each other the courtesy we deserve as it will make little or no difference to the journey time anyway. ;D


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

> Or any good looking male in nice tight cycling shorts come to think of it Â  ;D


lol.... Abi you can come and ogle mine any time you like


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## uppTTnorth (Jul 5, 2003)

Kick the car mate, if im out cycling with my grandaughter , it works for me, im more interested in her and my safety , than some idiots door, ohhh it doesnt work with hgv`s , just pull up .


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

wow, wish I'd seen this thread earlier!

got to say - been there.

used to (many years ago!) do the cycle commute - 15 miles each way (and with hills... )

gave that up, mainly cos it was uphill on the way home 
But can def vouch for the way cars treat you 

Things are a bit better on a 'proper'  bike - one that can leave a car for dust (yes - even a TT) with the slightest twitch of the wrist.
Doesn't stop car drivers trying to kill you at any opportunity.

Like to think it's made my driving much better tho.

Def agree - EVERYONE should be forced to spend some time on a bike / m'bike before being given a car license.

Tho perhaps lorry drivers might argue that we should spend time driving one of them too....


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## SteveS (Oct 20, 2003)

No authority, but I've got both a car and a motorbike licence and theres a pushbike in the garage that comes out in decent weather, I've also driven a 7.5 ton truck in the past (no HGV needed, think removals lorry size with a single rear axle, although to be honest I'm amazed you can be let loose in one of these on a car licence).

IME all these modes of transport have their good drivers/riders and their bad ones but on balance I think cars have the highest proportion of pilots who have absolutely no clue about other road users. All the other types instil in you a sense of either vulnerability or how much damage you can do and you drive/ride more sensibly with this in mind.

NB. Skip and "muckaway" lorry drivers are excluded from this, they're nutters to be avoided like the plague in all situations .


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

> lol.... Abi you can come and ogle mine any time you like Â


pfff OMG ;D, I have felt a hot flush all over me now ;D


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

That's not a hot flush. :-*


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

[smiley=vampire.gif] BEWARE GUYS! ;D


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## racer (Feb 3, 2003)

Before this thread goes down hill!! 
I'm with you 100% Irving, I'm a keen MTB'er and am quite lucky that there are lots of tracks in my part of Nottinghamshire. Sorry to hear about the muppet drivers that have been out to kill you.  I avoid riding on the any roads for the reasons you've stated. I used to cycle to work years ago and had to cross an M62 junction near Bradford and nearly got wasted everyday, it was very scarey. Bicycles and cars doing 50 mph, changing lanes, just don't mix.  I gave it up and caught the bus instead which wasn't very pleasant but at least I knew I would get home in one piece.
I've also got a motor bike which is safer as it can get you out of trouble much easier but I don't ride it much because of the risks. 
Anyway, on the positve side of cycling I'm going to be out and about in Sherwood Forest tomorrow morning on my MTB and can't wait. ;D


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

> Before this thread goes down hill!!


But, but, but, it's a TT forum thang for most of the threads to go 'off topic' or 'down hill' ;D


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## racer (Feb 3, 2003)

This one has done quite well to survive for 5 pages without going off on one.  ;D


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

How was offroading in the Forest then, racer? Didnt get out on bike this weekend as was sorting electrics on wife's Saab (turn headlights on, engine stops! bit of a pain on m/way)


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## racer (Feb 3, 2003)

It was great apart from crashing into my mate and falling off. ;D :-[
This is how it happened.....
We'd just climbed a hill and I thought he was behind me, I slowed down, took a drink from my bottle and looked over my right shoulder, I couldn't see him so looked further round behind me, as I did this I drifted to the left and crashed into him. He managed to stay on two wheels but I fell off into some grass so no damage was done. : It was a true Keystone cops moment. ;D 
BTW I fell off last week trying to bunny hop over a slippery log, I think I need more practice...... :

Another reason why I don't ride on the road anymore.


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

Will you be cycling the same route at the same time tomorrow Irving? .


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

To you Mountain Bikers - give this young fella a piece of advice...

http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/Ya ... 1074470441


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

> Will you be cycling the same route at the same time tomorrow Irving? Â . Â


Yep  i did this morning... nice today, and getting lighter in mornings now as well, makes it all the better. Not too much wind, no rain, usual traffic all standing still... 13 miles, 47minutes  nice burn


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

> Yep  i did this morning... nice today, and getting lighter in mornings now as well, makes it all the better. Not too much wind, no rain, usual traffic all standing still... 13 miles, 47minutes  nice burn


Glad you got in safely . Keep an eye out for that drive you came across the other day and give 'em an earful ;D


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

That's pretty good.

My route to work was almost exactly 10 miles and I was trying to beat 30 minutes. Best I got was 31:30 with an average speed of 18.96 and a maximum of 25.1.

Not bad considering the only hills on this part of my journey were uphill.

Shame I can't do the journey anymore.


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

I hope you guys all wear helmets?


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Every time.

Been knocked off my bike too many times to even consider NOT wearing one.


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

Out of interest do Halfords do a good female range of helmets for women?


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

No idea.

Look for the kitemark - or do you want an incredible Hulk one?


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

Abi, I always wear a helmet... just got a new one from Halfords - MET branded and most helmets are unisex these days.

Kell, i used to ride to Paddington every day and that was exactly 10miles... best I ever did was 27min 10sec

My current route to work is slightly downhill overall (70m drop, which means its uphill coming home, hence the extra minute average on the return times) but has 7 climbs in total, 3 of which are classified as moderately strenuous by CTC standards... have a 24 speeder and for most of the ride I use the big chainwheel and 8/7/6 on cassette, and/or 2nd chainwheel and 7/6/5/4 but on these 3 climbs I need to use 1st & 6/5/4 although depends on how tired I feel... best I managed so far is 46:45... goal is sub-45 probably by Spring (the warmer weather will help some)


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

I would imagine that about as many Mountain Bikes actually go up mountains as do 4*4 SUVs actually go off road. Maybe some marketing wag will create a SUBs niche for pushbikes.


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## Chip_iTT (Nov 14, 2003)

the term Mountain Bike is badly misused... my bike has straight handlebars and a shortish wheel base so is often called an MTB... actually its a hybrid... short enuf wheel base to be used offroad (and is) but long enuf to be reasonably comfortable on the road... and I'll hazard a guess that most bikes sold as MTBs are actually hybrids - which is arguably the equivalent of an SUB ;D

I did consider buying a proper road bike but couldn't justify the expense....


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Well mine have been all over the English country side as well as a fair bit of Scotland and Wales.


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

For you MTB fans - Forge do some lovely alloy products for them as well

http://www.forge-mtb.com/

James.


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

I love cycling. I'm not a regular commuter rider but I go out on the bike about once a week, sometimes more when the weather is better. I prefer exploring the countryside via byways and paths rather than road cycling. I'll usually go out for 3 or 4 hours, take a different route most times and always have my OS map with me Â 

My first 'mountain bike' was a cheap steel framed one (can't remember the name) but a few years ago I bought a Aluminium framed Giant 18sp bike with front fork suspension. I've added some handle bar extensions, a suspension seat and some other bits and bobs. The lighter frame is a huge bonus as it's much easier to heave the bike over gates and obsticals.

The only city cycling I've done was in Amsterdam (watch out for those tramlines) and Copenhagen where the hire bikes had brakes that are operated by reversing the direction of the pedals ..... SCARY! Â  Â


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

My first MTB was when I was 17 and a present. A raleigh Maverick that I was misold. I was told that you only needed the same amount of clearance that you have on a road bike.

Not so, the first time I mis-timed a bunny hop up a step and the front wheel caught I realised the bike was probably too big for me.

I sold that and got a Saracen Tuff-Trax with bio-pace gears* - this was in the era when Saracen sold good bikes rather than the that you get in Halfords.

* Oval chainset - anyone remember these?

I lent this to a mate and it was stolen from his shed. He felt really bad as the insurance company only gave him Â£150 for it. To make up for it, he then sold me the first of my P7s for a stupid price (and gave me the insurance money).

Kept that for lots of years, then decided it was gettign too old and what I really wanted was a FS bike which would allow me to strip down the old one and rebuild it as a fast commuter bike.

Four years later, it's had nothing done to it. :


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

> Copenhagen where the hire bikes had brakes that are operated by reversing the direction of the pedals ..... SCARY! Â  Â


Very common when I was little in Greece. Also very clever as you don't need to spend money for all the extra brake pads and wires that normally snap. I believe that this system doesn't need any maintenance and last for ever.


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