# Small MPV which one? Honda FR-V - GOT it



## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

OK I need something cheap.. with 6 seats, options so far;
Toyota corolla verso
Mazda5

any others? I didnt like VW torag or Zafira.


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## The Silver Surfer (May 14, 2002)

Have had experience of a Corolla Verso and it was......err...very versatile!! :lol:

Seriously though, IIRC all the rear seats fold into the floor, ala Zafira. The build quailty was good and with it being a Toyota, it should be ultra reliable. And IMO, it's not bad looking for a people carrier.

The new Mazda 5 certainly looks nice, of course haven't seen it 'in the flesh' yet.

Have you looked at the Honda FRV?

The Seat Altea is a very good looking 'family car' but I don't think it's available as a six seater.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

poss worth waiting for....?










or the Honda FRV CTDi 2.2


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

FRV, never seen that one.... just looked it up...weird 3 seats in front... will haev to go look at it in person i think.....

garyc what is the pic? worth waiting for..what is it? ford?

Any places to get any of these cheaper than a dealer!? cant see any on ebay.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Ford SAV. Just confirmed for production.

http://carreviewsonline.auto123.com/en/info/prototype/view.spy?artid=43910&make=Ford

I have seen a few FRVs and they look OK on road. FRV is available now. One of the car mags runs one on long term fleet and rate it well, except for economy with 2.0 petrol. The excellant 2.2 cdti diesel would be an obvious powerplant and is probably quicker than the petrol too.


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

thanks for the link.

Had a look at the Mazda5, very plastic interior which explains hwy its cheap. No leather seat option either, although leather is actually easier to clean than material? well i think it is as stuff usually wipes off better.

cant wait for the Ford too far off, i need something now.

So will have to look at Honda as that looks about right , but will have to see if interior better then Mazda !


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## Multiprocess (Aug 9, 2004)

garyc said:


> poss worth waiting for....?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

well i test drove the Honda FR-V 2.2 Deisel and I have to say i was pleasantly surprised by its handling and engine, the ride was just right, its doesnt feel that much wider and wasnt too bad when floored. the engine was quiet too.

the design is perfect inside with its weird 3 x 3 seats, kinda weird to drive with 3 in front but it worked but only slightly wider.

cant fault it really? anyway else driven one


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## che6mw (Nov 13, 2003)

don't think you'll be able to fault either the Honda or Toyota you mention.

I was in a similar situation trying to decide between the Corolla and the Civic.

Settled on the Corolla in the end. Love the styling. Love the build quality. Will hopefully love the reliability too.

And the 2.0 litre diesel is very punchy and has good speed for motorway miles too.

My local dealership also made me feel very special when deciding on what to go for. Ok, it's all a nonsense because they just want a sale - but it made a refreshing change from the cold reception at my local Audi dealership and frankly i'd rather give money to those who work for it! I must have cost Toyota at least Â£1.54 in coffee.

<--- When this little trouble monkey over here gets brothers and sisters I'll trade it up for the Verso without a second thought.


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

yes i went for FR-V
Mazda5 was too plastic inside and no leather option, sliding doors were good though I liked that.

FR-V drove like a civic and just felt better all round, leather and privacy glass etc... was a better deal in the end for what we wanted it for anyway. we dont plan to use 6 seats that often but will be very useful when we do. Kids also love drivin up front esp 10 yr olds
The eco package of 5 yrs free servicing is good too including parts and labour which is always transferable on sale.


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

We have a VW Touran (7 seat) 2.0 TDi 140. Personally I think its great, and having driven the Honda FRV, Corolla Verso and Grand scenic it stood head and shoulders above. If you generally need only 5 seats (otherwise FRV is only choice) then take a look. Better residuals than either Honda or Toyota (diesel I drove was very sluggish in comparison), good engine, good quality inside if a little bland looking. As an all-rounder it is a great car, I can't praise it highly enough.

We also got close to Â£2k off list price.


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Carlos said:


> We have a VW Touran (7 seat) 2.0 TDi 140. Personally I think its great, and having driven the Honda FRV, Corolla Verso and Grand scenic it stood head and shoulders above. If you generally need only 5 seats (otherwise FRV is only choice) then take a look. Better residuals than either Honda or Toyota (diesel I drove was very sluggish in comparison), good engine, good quality inside if a little bland looking. As an all-rounder it is a great car, I can't praise it highly enough.
> 
> We also got close to Â£2k off list price.


Snap  In 2004 we went for the DSG sport model, with full leather, met paint & reverse parking sensors...

With the 5 kids it works well for long journeys (generally), but the Euro trip (arrived back yesterday) was 2650 miles and we may well be swopping it for something larger... Galaxy/Sharan sized very shortly. I reckon I'll actually miss it


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

residulas from what i saw were excellent on FRV cos of the 5 yrs free servicing on them.

I hated the VW, was too big for me and too ugly ! but like you said for 5 kids it would be good.


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## Wolfsburger (Oct 21, 2002)

jonhaff said:


> I hated the VW, was too big for me


Strange, the FRV looks physically bigger than the VW :?


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jonhaff said:


> residulas from what i saw were excellent on FRV cos of the 5 yrs free servicing on them.
> 
> I hated the VW, was too big for me and too ugly ! but like you said for 5 kids it would be good.


I'd have thought that Honda residuals are generally better than VW ones?


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## markh (May 6, 2002)

What's the seat options (folding) in the Honda ?

How many fold flat, can be removed ??


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

Main problem for me with the Honda was the width - much wider than the Corolla - just a function of the 3 seats up front I guess, but one of the reasons I discounted it was problems in car parks with the width.


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

garyc said:


> jonhaff said:
> 
> 
> > residulas from what i saw were excellent on FRV cos of the 5 yrs free servicing on them.
> ...


thats what i was told too


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

all the back seats fold down flat.
the middle front folds down to form a large arm rest.

As for its width, its not that much wider at all? parking is no problem....
excluding mirrors:
Mazda5 is 1755
FRV is 1810
Verso 1770
Fiat multipla 1870

So FRV is only approx 5cm wider which isnt that much?!


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

I think that there is often confusion with widths - do they include door mirrors or not. My observation was that the Honda is *miles* wider than the Toyota (metaphorically). IMO It must be a lot wider, how else have they fitted in the extra seat? Incidentally Honda's own website quotes the width as 2113mm...

Whatever the width difference, cars have been getting wider and parking spaces narrower, so 5cm (if that is all it is) does make a difference to me, particularly given my wife's track record in car parks :wink: Its what turned me off the car, as its configuration makes it more suitable for our needs than the Touran.

And on the residual front, I am no fan of these percentages, give me real monetary numbers any day, but according to whatcar.com, The Touran TDI SE holds 61% of its value against 58% for the Honda TDI Sport after three years. Spec wise you'd need to compare the Touran SE against the Honda Sport model (alloys and cruise control standard on these levels). Nothing in it residual-wise but we managed to get Â£1800 off list buying it through a VW dealer's fleet arm. Honda is also two insurance groups higher than the Touran (11 vs 9). See, I did me 'omework 

Horses for courses. 

Oh, the Touran's glovebox is air conditioned too, always set to cold regardless of main temperature setting, keeps drinks nice and chilled. 

Bloody ugly car, I have to admit. For what it does and what its aimed at, it fulfills its goals better than anything else I have owned (would still swap for my old 330d though).


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

I'm following this with interest. My parents are about to come back from Dubai (to retire) and are looking at cars. Their choices have changed significantly over the past six months or so, especially as fuel prices are soaring. They arrive tomorrow night and we'll be test driving for the next week or so. I wouldn't have even considered the FR-V (as I didn't know of it), but we will be taking a look.


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## The Silver Surfer (May 14, 2002)

BreTT said:


> I'm following this with interest. My parents are about to come back from Dubai (to retire) and are looking at cars. Their choices have changed significantly over the past six months.......


Where have I seen that before, Brett!!! :lol: :wink:


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

Hey Brett, of course if they are _real_ enthusiasts they will go for a petrol car over diesel :wink:


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

2113 was with mirrors (i did say the comparision was exc mirrors) but like you said some specs are hard to tell on some .

for comparision an X5 is 2180 incl mirrors which only a little more! and you cant seat 6 in an X5 either

Still IMO we are talking 20-25 ish cms which really isnt that much.
On the inside i admit it does feel wider but thats the open space feeling.

anyway id say it was worth a check and if you think it fits your lifestyle then add it to the list to test


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

Well worth a check I agree.

Corolla Verso was biggest disappointment, I was geared up to want one. Dreadful visibility out the rear windows for the little ones (I guess its the price you pay for the "good" looks - best looking 6/7 seater by miles IMO) and the diesel engine was shocking, very underpowered compared to the VW/Honda.

Renault grand scenic...don't even go there if you value build integrity. We had a 1 hour test drive booked and took it back after 5 minutes.


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

if you are going for the big one i still dont think you can beat the Grand Voyager.
But our family isnt quite that big yet !


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

Carlos said:


> Hey Brett, of course if they are _real_ enthusiasts they will go for a petrol car over diesel :wink:


Which I have.... :wink:


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

The Silver Surfer said:


> BreTT said:
> 
> 
> > I'm following this with interest. My parents are about to come back from Dubai (to retire) and are looking at cars. Their choices have changed significantly over the past six months.......
> ...


All I can say is that they are changing their minds rapidly with the cost of fuel rising so much - even more than I did when I was looking! :wink:


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

Carlos said:


> Well worth a check I agree.
> 
> Corolla Verso was biggest disappointment, I was geared up to want one. Dreadful visibility out the rear windows for the little ones (I guess its the price you pay for the "good" looks - best looking 6/7 seater by miles IMO) and the diesel engine was shocking, very underpowered compared to the VW/Honda.


Out of interest, did you look at the Advensis Verso (or whatever it is called)? Any thoughts if you did?


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

Didn't know there was one! Honestly didn't know it existed, and struggling to see the point, the Corolla Verso appears to compete directly with the Touran/FRV so I can't see where it fits in as its not a "proper" full time 7 seater.


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

jonhaff said:


> if you are going for the big one i still dont think you can beat the Grand Voyager.
> But our family isnt quite that big yet !


You can't have driven one then. Admittedly if you need the space and don't travel too far it is acceptable. Otherwise a Grand Espace if you really need the space or a Sharan/Galaxy/Alhambra if you don't. The voyager is poorly built out of poor materials. It wouldn't see which way a European people carrier went on any road and is only really comfortable for those in the front not on the bench seat.

The Voyager has an image ot of all proportion with its abilities.

Just my thoughts, but having driven both extensively back to back I feel my point of view is valid.


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## Wolfsburger (Oct 21, 2002)

ag said:


> The Voyager has an image out of all proportion with its abilities.


Plus, Tony B.liar has one, no car could hope to recover from that image problem :lol:


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## che6mw (Nov 13, 2003)

BreTT said:


> All I can say is that they are changing their minds rapidly with the cost of fuel rising so much - even more than I did when I was looking! :wink:


Out of interest how many miles are they planning on doing? If you actually broke down the cost of car ownership then fuel costs are minute compared to other considerations, particularly depreciation.

I mean fuel costs may be a consideration if they are covering thousands of miles a year and drive something with a V8 in it - but really, i'd have thought initial purchase price and depreciation would be of more concern to them ????


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

che6mw said:


> BreTT said:
> 
> 
> > All I can say is that they are changing their minds rapidly with the cost of fuel rising so much - even more than I did when I was looking! :wink:
> ...


Especially as diesel cars usually carry a % premium over their petrol equivalents, meaning something akin to 35k miles is needed just to break even.


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

Absolutley and I agree totally. Just bear in mind though, that they are golf addicts (part of the reason they are coming back here). They fully intend to visit every golf course in Scotland and beyond. Also, my sister lives in the south of England and their other grandchild lives in Derby, so I suspect many miles are on the agenda. They intend to keep the car at least 5-6 years, so maybe diesel makes sense in their case. Maybe.....


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## che6mw (Nov 13, 2003)

BreTT said:


> .... so maybe diesel makes sense in their case. Maybe.....


Possibly. Am not knocking diesel. I don't honestly believe I'd ever consider buying a car with a normally-aspirated petrol engine again this side of a 996, M3 or Gallardo.

But I was curious to see what their justification of diesel over petrol was. Perhaps the miles thing does swing it towards diesel. I suppose it depends on how fast you want to get there and how much fun you want on the way. I got the 2 litre diesel because the low down torque makes for great around-town driving.

I suspect my folks with their dinky little 1.4 litre Honda Jazz achieve a similar fuel economy to me though.


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

Buy new - diesel
Buy used - petrol

The old "you have to do the miles to justify buying diesel" is not true IMO when buying new. Look at the 3 year residuals (real world) of comparable petrol and diesel cars that are the same model, particularly family cars and small execs. The finance guy I use to buy new cars through (he who sorted me out the substantial discount) told me to choose the diesel Touran over the petrol purely on grounds of residual.

If buying used, definitely go for petrol as you'll save a fortune. See prices of used 330i/330d Beemers for an example of this. I think the S class Merc would be another example, but Brett would be able to confirm.


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

Another advantage of diesel though is the "laid back" style of delivery. My gf would never use the revs on a petrol engine and so makes better progress in a diesel. In our case it is an A4 so the alternative petrol engine was the 2.0 litre FSi, which is more gutless and uninteresting to drive than any motor alledgedly producing 150BHP has a right to be. The bigger the car, the more the benefit of a diesel's torque come into play.


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

from more of the Ford SAV pictures I think you totally lose any luggage space. Looks nice but not so sure about the 2 seats in the boot.
At least FRV gives u boot space.

FRV drove well very firm ride not at all floaty or sea sick type feeling.


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

It may be a small factor, but I hate having to stop and fill up... the range of a diesel is a factor for me 

My Touran gives me between 490 & 520 miles to a full tank  Although I have had 570 from a full tank once


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

jonhaff said:


> Looks nice but not so sure about the 2 seats in the boot.
> At least FRV gives u boot space.


Key USP for the FRV - if you need 6 seats + boot then you have to go for this or a full size MPV (or Multipla, but...). Our requirements were for 4/5 seats plus big boot, with occasional 7 seats for local transport of kids friends etc (so no big boot requirement). So far in 5 months we have used the rear-most seats twice and they have really saved the day.


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

another quote for you.....
"Despite its seating layout, the FR-V is in fact a tad narrower than cars like the Ford Focus C-MAX and is exactly the same width of as a Renault Scenic, itself hardly a bloater. Honda make great play of the fact that with a short overall length, the car is easy to park and indeed it is, the wheel at each corner design giving it a beautifully tight turning circle. Handling doesnt feel quite as composed as some of the better cars in this class, the stiff chassis and short wheelbase having a tough time resolving high-frequency bumps and jolts from the road surface. The brakes and six-speed manual gearchange are up to the usual Honda standard (read excellent). 
"


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

Well after all that, my Mum and step-father bought Toyota Avensis Tourer 2.2 T-Spirit!


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## galwaytt (May 15, 2003)

ag said:


> Another advantage of diesel though is the "laid back" style of delivery. My gf would never use the revs on a petrol engine and so makes better progress in a diesel.


....good point, and one that's often missed. How many times have we sat in 'non-petrolheads' cars, as passengers, and inwardly groaned at the upchange rpms, etc......? They all think they're driving Wolesley 15/50's or something........ there is a lot to be said for high torque/longstroke motors, and diesel lends itself particularly well to that.

Consider, a friend of mine has alway driven diesels, and in 1999, got to changing car again, and decided to buy petrol 'for a change'. He bought a Honda Accord V-tec. 3 years later, he trades for a 3-series diesel, and he's now 'cured' of petrol engines. He could not 'get' all the frothing that people have about the Honda v-tec engines, he found it gutless. But I know why.......I once passengered 250miles with him in it, and I swear he never went above 2500rpm............the bloody v-tec system was permanently 'unemployed'.....no wonder he hated it.

I think too that with traffic, cameras etc, the nature of the diesel driving experience is actually better suited to the majority of drivers.....commuters, who only have cars as transport. Mild, forgiving, easy, doesn't matter what gear they're in. They probably wouldn't even notice the mpg benefit.........

These reasons of flexibility etc, are why I'm looking for a diesel coupe at the moment (see Alfa GT thread), and as you can know, it's all about torque..........swift progress can be made, as you 3xxd owners all know..........


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

well picked it up today.... and still impressed with it....
had 6 adults in it and they all were very surprised how comfortable and roomy it was.

was told there are only about 700 in UK , so that make this more exclusive than the TT !!!  for an MPV that it !


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

jonhaff said:


> well picked it up today.... and still impressed with it....
> had 6 adults in it and they all were very surprised how comfortable and roomy it was.
> 
> was told there are only about 700 in UK , so that make this more exclusive than the TT !!!  for an MPV that it !


Seen a few on the roads recently. Looks a good car. Would consider it as a replacement for the wife's car when it comes time to change in about 18 months or so.


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