# Possible Tyre Issue!!



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

After finishing my tyres off at Combe the week before last, i'd taken the step of ordering some new rubber & booking my cars in for a new set of 4 this morning at a local tyre place (great service & value by the way).

When they quoted me, they confirmed that Conti had launched a new Sport Contact tyre which was a higher speed rating (good for my driving  ) & slightly better performance compound. I took him at his word & arrived this morning for the fitting.

The new tyres look really good & the new tread pattern looks pretty cool (weird really) & the new Conti's have a much better rim guard for the wheels which give a look of the tyres being even wider (like it needs it).

My problem is that the model name for this tyre is Sport Contact ZR M3 & this was bugging me as i kept wondering how they were allowed to use the M3 name. Decided to see if i could track down this tyre on Black Circles & their it is, but the site states this tyre is specifically designed for the M3, but it also states that the tyre is an Ultra Performance tyre.

Should i worry about this or is it more likely to be marketing bullshit by Conti?? The tyre looks great, is safer due to the much bigger rim guard & assumes better performance than my old Conti Sport Contact2. SHould everything be OK???


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## L7 (Aug 27, 2004)

I would have thought it was fine as we have some tyres on the allroad that actually have allroad written on them (goodyear) but i can't see for any reason on earth why they wouldn't be suitable on another car with the same wheel size and type ie: large estate :?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Got a little spooked & decided to call Continental directly & spoke with their Tech Support who have informed me that the tyre is not load or speed rated for the Audi RS6 :x

So i retract my great service comment on my original post. The tyre i have on is specifically designed for the BMW M3 & Rover ZT-T V8  & is only rated to 150MPH  so as my top speed is over 190MPH & could soon be close to 200MPH, this aint really a good fit.

Been down to the tyre fitters & they reckon the Sport Contact M3 is the only 255/35/19 tyre they do, so i've got to see the owner tomorrow morning. Got my fighting gloves on now :evil: & given i'm driving back home (200 miles) tomorrow evening it had better get sorted. Continental very very helpful, but the bottom line is that the tyres my RS6 are now wearing are not fit for purpose


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

I'm sure Mr Powell would have something to say about this. Aren't teir tyres specifically designed (or recomended) for the S2000 - although in that instance the result is likely to be worse with their already precarious handling.

It seems a shame that they would recomend something unsuitable, but then perhaps they didn't think you would be going past 150mph in your car. Did you mention this when arranging it?



W7 PMC said:


> Got a little spooked & decided to call Continental directly & spoke with their Tech Support who have informed me that the tyre is not load or speed rated for the Audi RS6 :x
> 
> So i retract my great service comment on my original post. The tyre i have on is specifically designed for the BMW M3 & Rover ZT-T V8  & is only rated to 150MPH  so as my top speed is over 190MPH & could soon be close to 200MPH, this aint really a good fit.
> 
> Been down to the tyre fitters & they reckon the Sport Contact M3 is the only 255/35/19 tyre they do, so i've got to see the owner tomorrow morning. Got my fighting gloves on now :evil: & given i'm driving back home (200 miles) tomorrow evening it had better get sorted. Continental very very helpful, but the bottom line is that the tyres my RS6 are now wearing are not fit for purpose


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Kell said:


> I'm sure Mr Powell would have something to say about this. Aren't teir tyres specifically designed (or recomended) for the S2000 - although in that instance the result is likely to be worse with their already precarious handling.
> 
> It seems a shame that they would recomend something unsuitable, but then perhaps they didn't think you would be going past 150mph in your car. Did you mention this when arranging it?
> 
> ...


I don't think i specified that i drive over 150MPH (never know who's listening :wink: ), but the tyres they removed from my car were Conti SportContact2 & were OEM tyres from when the car was built & rated at 96Y which is correct for an RS6 & what i wanted. These new Bimmer M3 tyres are a lower speed & load rating (something to do with max weight on each wheel under load or max speed).

I'm fairly sure they'll sort this out tomorrow. According to Continental, their is only a couple of quid difference between the 2 tyre models. Only problem is if this dealer will be able to source the correct rubber same day.

Ps. The Beast would look stupid with those S2000 skinny girls tyres on :wink: :wink:


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

If I had an RS6 I would be delighted by the "halo effect" caused by it wearing tyres made specifically for a car as good as the M3 :wink:

I haven't got an RS6 though


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

I meant on a race track. Genuinely.

I remember the 'other marques' meet you went to where the RS6 morethan held its own and at speeds in excess of 150mph. Obviously it's not going to happen very often and you should be OK for general use, but I certainly wouldn't be very happy in your situation.



W7 PMC said:


> Kell said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure Mr Powell would have something to say about this. Aren't teir tyres specifically designed (or recomended) for the S2000 - although in that instance the result is likely to be worse with their already precarious handling.
> ...


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## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

Kell said:


> I'm sure Mr Powell would have something to say about this. Aren't teir tyres specifically designed (or recomended) for the S2000 - although in that instance the result is likely to be worse with their already precarious handling.
> 
> It seems a shame that they would recomend something unsuitable, but then perhaps they didn't think you would be going past 150mph in your car. Did you mention this when arranging it?
> 
> ...


They cannot assume that you are not going to drive at speeds
in excess of 150 mph.
I'm sure a number of their customers (including you of course) take their cars to Germany and
drive on the unrestricted Autobahns.


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## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

From an insurance point of view you must have the correct rated tyres.

They can and will refuse to pay out if you have a lower speed rated tyre, even if you are only doing 20mph when the accident happened.


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## dj c225 (Nov 3, 2004)

W7 PMC

Are you sure the tyre is only rated to 150mph?

The E46 M3's claimed topspeed is 155mph (limited) and when i had mine derestricted i was told it was capable of 175mph, though i only ever got to 160 in Spain with some more punch left in her.

Surely its a mistake? :?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

dj c225 said:


> W7 PMC
> 
> Are you sure the tyre is only rated to 150mph?
> 
> ...


Yep, i'm 100% positive & had this confirmed by Continental. The ratings for high speed are Z up to 149MPH or 150MPH depending on who you believe & the Y rating which is speeds up to 186MPH or 189MPH again depending on who you believe.

This does not mean the tyre would explode at speeds over 150MPH, just that its not rated for a higher speed. The Caveat is load which basically applies along with the speed rating, so 175MPH in a straight line would be fine with a Z rated tyre, but if you were to load the tyre i.e high speed cornering etc. then problems would occur.

Their is obviously a grey area regarding tyres & i'm just glad i spoke directly to Conti as sticking with a lower load rated & speed rated tyre is not a good idea.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

What a surprise, its gonna cost me money.

Continental only have 2 of the correct tyres i need in the country, with no more arriving until mid April  so i'm having to switch to the Michelin Pilot Sports, which although meant to better performing & longer lasting, are about Â£40 per unit more expensive 

Its crazy that a tyre manufacturer like Conti can shortfall on supply by so much on what is afterall an OEM tyre on the higher speed 996/997 & RS6's.

Lets hope these new Michelin are as good as i'm hearing they are.


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## chowy (Jul 5, 2004)

If you have the M3 developed Continental tyre, it is available in the following sizes -

225/45/18 front
255/40/18 rear

or

225/40/19 front
255/35/19 rear

These are Continental Sport 1's not 2's

PS Z rating is above 150 mph


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

So does this mean that the ones already fitted are effectively going to cost you nothing? ie you'll get your money back on those and pay an extra Â£160 for the Michelins?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

chowy said:


> If you have the M3 developed Continental tyre, it is available in the following sizes -
> 
> 225/45/18 front
> 255/40/18 rear
> ...


I thought the rears on an M3 were larger than the fronts, so these tyres are not even designed for front of car usage (255/35/19).

According to Continental, their Z rating is 150+MPH & Y rating is 186MPH, with a W rating being 168MPH. According to their technicians, the correct spec for a tyre is based on the next applicable speed rating after the cars quoted top speed, so although the RS6 is limited to 155mph, de-limited its capable of over 180MPH, so the Y rating is applied. If an M3 is capable of 175MPH de-limited then it should really also have a Y rating or at worst a W rating, as the Z is designated too low. It does state 150+ but as a higher rating is available at 168MPH & 187MPH, do the maths.

http://www.blackcircles.com/general/speedrating


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Kell said:


> So does this mean that the ones already fitted are effectively going to cost you nothing? ie you'll get your money back on those and pay an extra Â£160 for the Michelins?


Correct, they will be getting the Michelins in later today & will remove the incorrect Conti tyres & replace with the Michelins & i'll have to pay the difference between them.

Although i did not specify i needed an extral load tyre, i did give them the details of my car & full tyre details of the OEM tyres i already had on their, so they are taking the bulk of the blame & just charging me the difference. I'm sure they'll re-sell the ones they fitted yesterday, as they've now only covered 40 miles & i took it fairly easy so as not to damage them of lose control of the car.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

I was running Mich PS2s at Combe and they are much better IMO that the OEM Conti SC2's that came on it.

When I fit my RS6 wheels I'll be on F1's as although the PS2s are really good I found I had the F1's more confidence inspiring and they fell better in the wet. That said I haven't driven an S4 on F1s yet but I hope they're as good as on the TT.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

I think the Contis are rubbish, TBH...


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

I suppose that's why I pulled away. It was purely down to my choice of rubber! :roll: :wink:

oh yeah and the fact you pulled your knob off !!


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

scoTTy said:


> I suppose that's why I pulled away. It was purely down to my choice of rubber! :roll: :wink:
> 
> oh yeah and the fact you pulled your knob off !!


Your 15bhp advantage, slightly lighter saloon weight, and not being "2-up" were contributary causes as well :lol:


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## IanWest (May 7, 2002)

Paul,
I would confirm the price as it seems they are getting the cost of their cock up out of you. One of our tenants is a tyre dealer and like for like he confirmed that Contis are more than Michelin by about Â£15-Â£20 a tyre on the premium stuff. So you should be getting some moeny back

I have just had 4 put on the Porsche and the price difference was Â£15 more per corner for Contis. If you give me the size, I can get a trade price for you just for a comparable


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

IanWest said:


> Paul,
> I would confirm the price as it seems they are getting the cost of their cock up out of you. One of our tenants is a tyre dealer and like for like he confirmed that Contis are more than Michelin by about Â£15-Â£20 a tyre on the premium stuff. So you should be getting some moeny back
> 
> I have just had 4 put on the Porsche and the price difference was Â£15 more per corner for Contis. If you give me the size, I can get a trade price for you just for a comparable


Think you may be getting figures for a different Michelin & Conti tyre, as everywhere i've looked, the Mich is at least Â£40 more than the Conti per corner.

Size for the Beast are 255/35/R19 & they need to be Y speed rated & a load rating of 96.

http://www.blackcircles.com/general/speedrating

I'll dig a little further just in case, but the average price for the Conti is about Â£240 & The Mich is about Â£280 although i've seen supply only for the Pilot Sport for about Â£240.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

chowy said:


> If you have the M3 developed Continental tyre, it is available in the following sizes -
> 
> 225/45/18 front
> 255/40/18 rear
> ...


Just spotted this site, which states that ZR rating which is the Conti Sport M3 is a MAX speed of 149MPH

http://www.rubberball.co.uk/tyre-size.htm


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## IanWest (May 7, 2002)

Sorry my error, I meant Contis are dearer than Pirellis- I'll shut up!
He is getting a price anyway for you just so that you have an idea.


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## IanWest (May 7, 2002)

Michelins are special order and are Â£245.57 each. Contis are Â£198.57


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

This site could help you with the price difference between makes:
http://www.mytyres.co.uk

For info there seems to be about Â£20 per corner difference between those supplied and the correct Continentals for your car and a furthe Â£10 for Michelins.

The speed rating issue is something rather imprecise nowadays. About ten years ago, when I was still in the industry, very few cars exceeded 150mph. At that time H rated ran to 210kmh, V to 240kmh, Z (also known at the time as V280) to 270kmh (or in some cases 280kmh). Other ratings didn't increase the speed, just the load. So W and Y were simply load ratings within the speed rating of Z rated tyres. Nowadays these have kind of become speed ratings of their own with W upto 270kmh and Y to 300kmh with Z becoming simply a generic term for those tyres exceeding 240kmh (150mph).

Having he correct tyres is essential and currently baffling. On a machine like the RS6 you should only use exactly the same size and load rating as originally supplied and, where possible, a tyre that has been homologated for that vehicle. Recommended fitments can usually be found on the tyre manufacturer's website.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

IanWest said:


> Sorry my error, I meant Contis are dearer than Pirellis- I'll shut up!
> He is getting a price anyway for you just so that you have an idea.


Phew, thought as much. You had me worried their 

Price you're quoting is about right, as the price i've got to replace from the shop that screwed up a little is Â£265 per corner, but includes VAT, fitting, balance & disposal, so in line with online stores etc.


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## IanWest (May 7, 2002)

that is all inclusive but we do get good rates from them. They said that the Michelins are very good and that there is not much difference between them


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

IanWest said:


> that is all inclusive but we do get good rates from them. They said that the Michelins are very good and that there is not much difference between them


Cheers, i'm kinda stuck to stay with the original shop, as it was their screw up in the 1st place & i will be trying to drive the price down a little further :lol:

Will defo bear those prices in mind when it comes time to replace again, which will probably be in about 6 months


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