# Audi RS4 vs S4 vs whatever



## jampott

I know there is a specific RSx board, but this is a comparison discussion of other marques...  I know some of you have owned 1 or both and I'm looking for a bit of input.

I *may* decide in the next few weeks to ditch the Zed in favour of something more "practical" - key requirements are 4 seats, enough space for 2 dogs, a price that isn't astronomical, plenty of "oomph", some prestige, a bit of rarity / exclusivity and something that, despite its size, is fun to drive...

The latter tends to rule out a 4x4 like X5 / Rangie etc, and TBH thats not really "me" either, I don't think. I have a 4WD for mud plugging already... :lol:

So thoughts turn to a used RS4 or nearly new S4 or maybe something else you could recommend?

RS4 firstly - they are all about 3 or 4 years old now, and the majority are in the 25-60k miles bracket.

Big enough for 2 Dalmatians in the back?
Reliable enough for 15-20k a year?
Expensive to run / insure?
A sound "investment", or will they lose money hand-over-fist

S4 - I'd probably be looking at something a bit newer, and probably slightly more expensive, though I'd be aiming to keep the cost to change quite low, and hence spend well under Â£40k if I can...

Big enough for 2 Dalmatians in the back?
Expensive to run / insure?
etc. etc.

Or what else is there..

There is a *chance* I can pick up a 9 month old ex lease Bimmer for "cost" - subject to negotiation with work - but this would really be the outside choice for me, as not only would I need to pull some strings, I still don't really see BMW as "me"...

No scooby wagons, nothing mundane, no Jaguar estates...


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## raven

Surely Tim you don't want to go back to Audi? Although if you have dogs I can't see any alternative... Forget the dogs and I would go for the previous generation M5.


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## jonno

Tim
I have some days of S4 (Avant) experience.
I'd say the avant (which I think looks better than the saloon) will of course have more than enough room for the dogs and other stuff but with no real performance sacrifice.
The RS4 is arguably going to take more of a hit when the new version comes out (but when?) although purchase price is probably much of a muchness

I did find the petrol costs a *bit* high - with some spirited driving I struggled to get 15mpg out of it over several days.  
All offset by the fantastic noise of the v8 (I was banned by the mrs from parking it too near the house as it woke up the baby.

I suppose there might be potentially lower fuel costs on the RS tho, and cheaper tuning for the blown lump, but insurance will probably be similar -IG19/20.

Either way, what a tough decision :roll:


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## jampott

raven said:


> Surely Tim you don't want to go back to Audi? Although if you have dogs I can't see any alternative... Forget the dogs and I would go for the previous generation M5.


As much as the TT had/has its faults, and as badly as Audi treated me as a customer (or rather the things they missed to make ownership "special") there really isn't an alternative in the "executive dog wagon" stakes...

Sure, Audi have their faults, but I'm also not blinkered in such a way as to cut my nose off to spite my face... 

As it is looking more and more like I'm going to move house before Xmas, I'll need to transport the dogs on a pretty regular basis a distance of about 120 miles (a couple of times a month) which rules out trying to squeeze them into something silly...


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## garyc

http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/viewtopic.php?t=21747&highlight=rs4

Refers to Mki S4 and RS4 which is still a v good car and my mate just picked up a 4 year old 1 owner 45Kmiles example for Â£12K    Stonking good value - esp once you have been to MTM and upped the anti to 320hp. Reasonable economy at 25mpg.

The latest S4 is likley to soften in value seeing as a face lift Guppy job is imminent.


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## R6B TT

These guys usually have a few RS4s and S4 Avant in stock, they have just sold a Kim Collins tuned MTM RS4 and also an MTM tuned Audi Allroad - which may give you another option, bigger than the S4 / RS4.

http://www.fontain.co.uk/stocklist.asp

There's a nice looking A4 Avant 3 litre Quattro in too.


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## jampott

R6B TT said:


> These guys usually have a few RS4s and S4 Avant in stock, they have just sold a Kim Collins tuned MTM RS4 and also an MTM tuned Audi Allroad - which may give you another option, bigger than the S4 / RS4.
> 
> http://www.fontain.co.uk/stocklist.asp
> 
> There's a nice looking A4 Avant 3 litre Quattro in too.


Aye - I've had a look on there already... plus the AMD website, where they are selling a mildly uprated (530bhp!) RS4 

Call me weird, but I don't really fancy black or silver, or even Goodwood green. I'd like Imola, Nogaro or Misano


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## R6B TT

Nip over to RS246.com and see if Andiroo wants to sell his Noggy Blue RS4. You may have to take the Nitrous tanks out of the back to make room for the dogs though, but IIRC he was 550BHP plus without the Nitrous so it should move you around ok


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## Steve_Mc

jampott said:


> RS4 firstly - they are all about 3 or 4 years old now, and the majority are in the 25-60k miles bracket.
> 
> Big enough for 2 Dalmatians in the back?
> Reliable enough for 15-20k a year?
> Expensive to run / insure?
> A sound "investment", or will they lose money hand-over-fist


Boot definitely big enough for the hounds.

Yes reliable - but try and pick one up with warranty (plenty of owners extend the warranty) if you're worried.

Drinks fuel at about 22mpg combined. But as the fuel tank is only 65 litres IIRC then the range is only around 300 miles (200 if you cane it). Insurance is bizarrely very cheap. My renewal this year only Â£550. Consumables - big service at 40k (cambelt change) costing about Â£1k and clutches seem to last around 50k miles (not covered by warranty, about Â£1.5k tops).

Investment? Hmmm, tough one this. New RS4 next year may hit residuals, but then the B5 RS4 was limited to 400 units, the new one probably won't be (a la RS6). Given that the limited edition RS2 still holds good values there is a case to be made for the B5 holding on to its value. I reckon I've lost about 10% in the past year.


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## jampott

Steve_Mc said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> RS4 firstly - they are all about 3 or 4 years old now, and the majority are in the 25-60k miles bracket.
> 
> Big enough for 2 Dalmatians in the back?
> Reliable enough for 15-20k a year?
> Expensive to run / insure?
> A sound "investment", or will they lose money hand-over-fist
> 
> 
> 
> Boot definitely big enough for the hounds.
> 
> Yes reliable - but try and pick one up with warranty (plenty of owners extend the warranty) if you're worried.
> 
> Drinks fuel at about 22mpg combined. But as the fuel tank is only 65 litres IIRC then the range is only around 300 miles (200 if you cane it). Insurance is bizarrely very cheap. My renewal this year only Â£550. Consumables - big service at 40k (cambelt change) costing about Â£1k and clutches seem to last around 50k miles (not covered by warranty, about Â£1.5k tops).
> 
> Investment? Hmmm, tough one this. New RS4 next year may hit residuals, but then the B5 RS4 was limited to 400 units, the new one probably won't be (a la RS6). Given that the limited edition RS2 still holds good values there is a case to be made for the B5 holding on to its value. I reckon I've lost about 10% in the past year.
Click to expand...

If the boot is big enough and the insurance costs low enough, then its a very tempting change. I should get a fair price for the Zed.

Not overly concerned about the "range", as I won't be doing much daily driving - fuel economy is as I'd expect from a large car - the Zed does about 26mpg combined, so not a HUGE difference in the wallet...

The biggest question is "will it depreciate like a dog" and it sounds like maybe it won't...

What are the cool "options" to be looking out for, and is there a categoric "list" of options vs standard equipment anywhere? (So I can read through the ads and find out what it has/hasn't)

Is the SatNav / TV etc any good?


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## coupe-sport

Do Audi still replace the wheels on the RS4 ?? - Remember Bushy changing his quite often when they buckled.


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## jampott

coupe-sport said:


> Do Audi still replace the wheels on the RS4 ?? - Remember Bushy changing his quite often when they buckled.


Oh James, RS4 wheels are so "yesterday" 

I'll probably need a nice set of Sportecs


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## Steve_Mc

There's a copy of the brochure on rs246.com here. Not sure if you need to register to see it, hopefully you can. Most desirable options seem to be SatNav+ (head unit with screen and TV, as opposed to SatNav which is just the DIS arrows etc) and sunroof.

Re wheels, the soft wheels carry a lifetime replacement guarantee (there will be an insert in the service / warranty book to signify this). There was also an option to swap them for harder wheels (same style) FOC but which carry no guarantee. You can check the difference by looking at the part number (under the centre cap), soft wheels part number ends with a "T", hard wheels "AE".

There is a 10% chance I may make the OM meet in a few weeks if you want a nosy around and a drive. However it's still unlikely I'll make it so in the meantime fire away with any other questions. I'm also sure GaryC can chip in a few words of wisdom.


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## jampott

Steve_Mc said:


> There's a copy of the brochure on rs246.com here. Not sure if you need to register to see it, hopefully you can. Most desirable options seem to be SatNav+ (head unit with screen and TV, as opposed to SatNav which is just the DIS arrows etc) and sunroof.
> 
> Re wheels, the soft wheels carry a lifetime replacement guarantee (there will be an insert in the service / warranty book to signify this). There was also an option to swap them for harder wheels (same style) FOC but which carry no guarantee. You can check the difference by looking at the part number (under the centre cap), soft wheels part number ends with a "T", hard wheels "AE".
> 
> There is a 10% chance I may make the OM meet in a few weeks if you want a nosy around and a drive. However it's still unlikely I'll make it so in the meantime fire away with any other questions. I'm also sure GaryC can chip in a few words of wisdom.


Thanks for the advice, Steve...

My main concerns have already been addressed - the only issues for me are:

1) I'll effectively be trading a 1yr old car for something 3+ years old. However you look at it, that's the way it is...

2) Depreciation (unknown, but not likely to be a problem)

3) Running costs (sound "reasonable" so far (vs other performance cars))

4) Interior space (I think you've addressed this already!)

I'm also a little tentative about approaching my insurers. Since getting the Z, I've gone from 3 to 6 points, and been involved in an accident which has yet to be fully resolved, so am currently looking at 0 years NCB.

Still very tempted to go for it - the only other reasonable solution for me would be to trade my Landie for a cheapish Estate car, yet keep the Z - but this makes no sense to me whatsoever, as I basically do ZERO mileage during the week, and certainly going forward, will mainly be doing weekend mileage with the dogs etc - the Z would barely get driven, so I'd have Â£25k worth of metal depreciating away in my new garage / car port.

*sigh*

Don't really want to get rid of the Z, which is why I'm looking at the more "fun" end of the estate market...

But I'm 95% convinced I should bow to the inevitable. I've always liked the RS4, but they've never been affordable (for me) until now.


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## KevinST

Tim, I had an A4 estate as a company car some time ago (1.9TDi, not an (R)S4 though  ).
The boot was big enough for our GSD and greyhound... but was a bit tight TBH. Depends on how tight a space your 2 will be happy travelling in.

For our 2, the A4 boot is a bit small hence we went for the BMW 5 series.


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## kmpowell

Sorry Tim, im not sure how you can contemplate going back to an Audi untill the CS starts to get better and the dealers attitudes change! :?

If it were me, my money would go on a 6-12 month old Black or Dark Grey 330D Touring, then chuck a grand at a few tuning gooodies. Carlos, GCP, GaryC etc etc etc all have had nothing but GOOD reports all round. Descreet power, economy and practicality for the doggies/kids etc. Best of all, becasue it is descreet, you don't have to worry about 'Envy stripes' too much.


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## r1

You're forgetting that Timmy can't see himself being a 'bimmer' man however, Nissans are fine. :roll:


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## R6B TT

Tim
Get over to RS246 NOW! There is a great looking Noggy RS4 with MTM Stage 3 for 32995, buy it before I do!


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## jampott

R6B TT said:


> Tim
> Get over to RS246 NOW! There is a great looking Noggy RS4 with MTM Stage 3 for 32995, buy it before I do!


I can't buy until I sell 

Unless he takes part-ex...


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## kingcutter

kmpowell said:


> Sorry Tim, im not sure how you can contemplate going back to an Audi untill the CS starts to get better and the dealers attitudes change! :?
> 
> If it were me, my money would go on a 6-12 month old Black or Dark Grey 330D Touring, then chuck a grand at a few tuning gooodies. Carlos, GCP, GaryC etc etc etc all have had nothing but GOOD reports all round. Descreet power, economy and practicality for the doggies/kids etc. Best of all, becasue it is descreet, you don't have to worry about 'Envy stripes' too much.


you may want to check your spelling from time to time before slagging anyone else off or being more discreet.


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## r1

off


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## garyc

jampott said:


> Steve_Mc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> RS4 firstly - they are all about 3 or 4 years old now, and the majority are in the 25-60k miles bracket.
> 
> Big enough for 2 Dalmatians in the back?
> Reliable enough for 15-20k a year?
> Expensive to run / insure?
> A sound "investment", or will they lose money hand-over-fist
> 
> 
> 
> Boot definitely big enough for the hounds.
> 
> Yes reliable - but try and pick one up with warranty (plenty of owners extend the warranty) if you're worried.
> 
> Drinks fuel at about 22mpg combined. But as the fuel tank is only 65 litres IIRC then the range is only around 300 miles (200 if you cane it). Insurance is bizarrely very cheap. My renewal this year only Â£550. Consumables - big service at 40k (cambelt change) costing about Â£1k and clutches seem to last around 50k miles (not covered by warranty, about Â£1.5k tops).
> 
> Investment? Hmmm, tough one this. New RS4 next year may hit residuals, but then the B5 RS4 was limited to 400 units, the new one probably won't be (a la RS6). Given that the limited edition RS2 still holds good values there is a case to be made for the B5 holding on to its value. I reckon I've lost about 10% in the past year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the boot is big enough and the insurance costs low enough, then its a very tempting change. I should get a fair price for the Zed.
> 
> Not overly concerned about the "range", as I won't be doing much daily driving - fuel economy is as I'd expect from a large car - the Zed does about 26mpg combined, so not a HUGE difference in the wallet...
> 
> The biggest question is "will it depreciate like a dog" and it sounds like maybe it won't...
> 
> What are the cool "options" to be looking out for, and is there a categoric "list" of options vs standard equipment anywhere? (So I can read through the ads and find out what it has/hasn't)
> 
> Is the SatNav / TV etc any good?
Click to expand...

Trust me, the range_ will_ piss you off at some point. After 180 miles have passed; that bloody light is on again; it is late and you don't know where nearest gas station is - then you will rue the lack of range as you crawl along at 40 mph with all the cars you previously passed, re-passing you. I never oce saw 300 miles from a tank in my 15K miles with the car. One's bottle starts going at 200 miles and panic 'we're marooned' sets in.

Why do you think I sold it relatively quickly? (OK there was an M3 waiting for me :wink: ) Every time I went from Bristol to Bracknell - a short trip 95 miles each way, I would have to stop on the way home for more gas. 

I do the same trip nigh-on 3 times with a tank these days in greater comfort. Journey times have not increased either. Plus I receive great dealer service and can carry more kit if I need to. BUT I drive a wnker brand. :wink:

ps The Sat Nav TV is OK but hardly a deal clincher. But the stock Bose sounds worse than in the TT. ie dreadful, boxy, compressed and with zero bass.


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## Steve_Mc

garyc said:


> Trust me, the range_ will_ piss you off at some point. After 180 miles have passed; that bloody light is on again; it is late and you don't know where nearest gas station is - then you will rue the lack of range as you crawl along at 40 mph with all the cars you previously passed, re-passing you. I never oce saw 300 miles from a tank in my 15K miles with the car. One's bottle starts going at 200 miles and panic 'we're marooned' sets in.


I average about 300 miles on a fill, so I guess I must be a smoother (read _better_ :wink: ) driver. The tank is 62 litres, which is 16.38gallons. Even at 20mpg that's 327 miles per tank.

Number jousting aside, I think Gary you'd be the first to agree that the RS and the 330D are very different animals. The bimmer is the high-miler workhorse, the RS is the short squirt sprinter. You have 45 litres extra boot space, better CS and a better stereo. But let's face it, even with a TB it's not quite up to the job in the performance stakes. Worthy opponents in the fun estate sector, but different tools for different jobs.


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## jampott

Tell you what... I'll arrange a test drive if I can.

The biggest issue buying an RS4 is I either need to sell my (only) comfy car before buying, OR do part-ex - and because of its age, the RS4 will probably start to fall off the Audi Main Dealer "approved used car" stock shortly...

The S4 Avant or a 330d then start to get appealing on the "ease of transaction".

The 330d is quite a good option, really - and I'd be dull to dismiss it out of hand. Hey, I can always get a proper sports car again next year


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## jampott

BTW, Gary, WTF is a "gas station"? Does this thing run on Propane or something? :lol:


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## garyc

OR: if you want fast, powerful, capacious, big road presence, long range AND thirsty machine, how about a used one of these:










Don't know about two dogs but you could carry a cow in the back:










Plus it apparently tunes very well from a barely adequate 300hp 550 ft lbs/750nm torque to a more acceptable 390 hp and 630 ft lbs/850nm torque - say 6 secs to 60 - in a bungalow 

Â£50K new, but i reckon you could find a year old one around the dealers for about Â£35K ish. All have 3 year warranty. :idea:


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## jampott

garyc said:


> OR: if you want fast, powerful, capacious, big road presence, long range AND thirsty machine, how about a used one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know about two dogs but you could carry a cow in the back:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus it apparently tunes very well from a barely adequate 300hp 550 ft lbs/750nm torque to a more acceptable 390 hp and 630 ft lbs/850nm torque - say 6 secs to 60 - in a bungalow
> 
> Â£50K new, but i reckon you could find a year old one around the dealers for about Â£35K ish. All have 3 year warranty. :idea:


Its funny you mention those, Gary - I looked at the VW site but was put off by the "new" price for the W10 or whatever it was that I wanted. TBH I really like them - more than the Cayenne (despite the badge) - but I hadn't considered a used one. Perhaps I should 

The only problem is, I don't have a cow, man...


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## garyc

jampott said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> 
> OR: if you want fast, powerful, capacious, big road presence, long range AND thirsty machine, how about a used one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know about two dogs but you could carry a cow in the back:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus it apparently tunes very well from a barely adequate 300hp 550 ft lbs/750nm torque to a more acceptable 390 hp and 630 ft lbs/850nm torque - say 6 secs to 60 - in a bungalow
> 
> Â£50K new, but i reckon you could find a year old one around the dealers for about Â£35K ish. All have 3 year warranty. :idea:
Click to expand...

Its funny you mention those, Gary - I looked at the VW site but was put off by the "new" price for the W10 or whatever it was that I wanted. TBH I really like them - more than the Cayenne (despite the badge) - but I hadn't considered a used one. Perhaps I should 

*The only problem is, I don't have a cow, man...[/*quote]

Sooooo tempting. :wink:


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## ag

Had you thought about an S6 Avant or an E55 AMG Estate? Or even a 2.7T Allroad? Two Dalmations in the back of a 3 Series or A4 Avant looks a bit tight to me and if you ever carry people in the back make sure that their legs bend in about three positions!


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## Carlos

Well I had a tuned 330d, and even though it was the best car I've owned, I would still go for the RS4.

If you don't care about economy IMO there is no choice to make. Well you could consider a C32 AMG estate...same space I would think and prices in the low to mid 30s I think. RS4 is a landmark car I think and everyone should aim to own one at some point.

Nice choice you have though!


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## jampott

I don't think a "Merc" is me, either...

I actually popped into Cardiff Audi today, to see what they had...

I know you are all going to fall around laughing at this point (and piss yourselves for the next few hours at my expense) but I actually rather liked the new A3 Sportback, and think (honestly!) it would suit my needs 

(the 3.2 V6 non-DSG version, obviously, and specced up to the nines of course...)

But it seems to offer an interior that is a direct bastardisation between the old S3 and the TT - definately bits of both. Enough room for rear passengers, and a boot which didn't seem smaller than the equivalent A4... *lol*

Ho hum.

I had some good news about my house price though, so may end up upping the budget slightly - but considering I reckon I could almost swap the Z directly car for car with a brand new Sportback, that's pretty good going


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## Kell

Actually the A3 is something I've been quite surprised by. Not seen one in the flesh, but you'd certainly get a new car for less than that price of a SH RS4. Not sure where Gary's mate got his from, but all the ones I've seen have been Â£30k +.

The 3.2 manual A3 looks tempting and the money you save could be used to 'tweak' it. Given that it should benefit from all the work done on the R32.

The downside is, that the RS4 is iconic, not sure that the A3 will be in the same way. I also suspect that you'd lose more buying a new A3 and then selling it as a SH buy in a year/two years than you would buying an RS4 as most of its major depreciation has already happened.

Don't know what I'd do in your position, but I think I'd probably go for a newer S4 Avant - ie new shape. Bigger than the RS4 in terms of rear seat passenger space - couldn't beleive the lack of legroom in the back of Thorney's. When he was driving it, I doub't you'd have got anyone in the back - even a kid. Still under warranty. Still has almost the kudos of the RS4.

Tough decision, but a nice one.


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## garyc

Kell said:


> Actually the A3 is something I've been quite surprised by. Not seen one in the flesh, but you'd certainly get a new car for less than that price of a SH RS4. Not sure where Gary's mate got his from, but all the ones I've seen have been Â£30k +.
> 
> 'twas an S4 mk1 not RS4
> 
> The 3.2 manual A3 looks tempting and the money you save could be used to 'tweak' it. Given that it should benefit from all the work done on the R32.
> 
> The downside is, that the RS4 is iconic, not sure that the A3 will be in the same way. I also suspect that you'd lose more buying a new A3 and then selling it as a SH buy in a year/two years than you would buying an RS4 as most of its major depreciation has already happened.
> 
> Don't know what I'd do in your position, but I think I'd probably go for a newer S4 Avant - ie new shape. Bigger than the RS4 in terms of rear seat passenger space - couldn't beleive the lack of legroom in the back of Thorney's. When he was driving it, I doub't you'd have got anyone in the back - even a kid. Still under warranty. Still has almost the kudos of the RS4.
> 
> ..and now all the kudos of MUFC behind it
> 
> Tough decision, but a nice one.


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## Kell

garyc said:


> Kell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually the A3 is something I've been quite surprised by. Not seen one in the flesh, but you'd certainly get a new car for less than that price of a SH RS4. Not sure where Gary's mate got his from, but all the ones I've seen have been Â£30k +.
> 
> 'twas an S4 mk1 not RS4
> 
> The 3.2 manual A3 looks tempting and the money you save could be used to 'tweak' it. Given that it should benefit from all the work done on the R32.
> 
> The downside is, that the RS4 is iconic, not sure that the A3 will be in the same way. I also suspect that you'd lose more buying a new A3 and then selling it as a SH buy in a year/two years than you would buying an RS4 as most of its major depreciation has already happened.
> 
> Don't know what I'd do in your position, but I think I'd probably go for a newer S4 Avant - ie new shape. Bigger than the RS4 in terms of rear seat passenger space - couldn't beleive the lack of legroom in the back of Thorney's. When he was driving it, I doub't you'd have got anyone in the back - even a kid. Still under warranty. Still has almost the kudos of the RS4.
> 
> ..and now all the kudos of MUFC behind it
> 
> Tough decision, but a nice one.
Click to expand...

Apologies for not reading your post correctly.


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## chowy

Have you thought about an Alpina B3S (300 bhp). I drove one and it was fantastic!! I drove the new S4 not long after it and must say that I preferred the Alpina!!

Not many around, so you may not finding a used one easily but if you do, they temd to be a bargain as the new owner always takes the initial depreciation hit!!


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## Carlos

Tim do you need to carry owt else at the same time as the dogs? If not, surely any hatch will do as you can fold the rear seats...much bigger choice if you are not limiting yourself to estates...


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## b3ves

Carlos said:


> RS4 is a landmark car I think and everyone should aim to own one at some point.


Well put sir - my thoughts exactly and after much reflection I'm hoping that point is very soon 

Anyone want a 4000 mile R32?


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## garyc

b3ves said:


> Carlos said:
> 
> 
> 
> RS4 is a landmark car I think and everyone should aim to own one at some point.
> 
> 
> 
> Well put sir - my thoughts exactly and after much reflection I'm hoping that point is very soon
> 
> Anyone want a 4000 mile R32?
Click to expand...

RS2 was the true landmark car for Audi.


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## sonicmonkey

jampott said:


> I don't think a "Merc" is me, either...
> 
> I actually popped into Cardiff Audi today, to see what they had...
> 
> I know you are all going to fall around laughing at this point (and piss yourselves for the next few hours at my expense) but I actually rather liked the new A3 Sportback, and think (honestly!) it would suit my needs
> 
> (the 3.2 V6 non-DSG version, obviously, and specced up to the nines of course...)
> 
> But it seems to offer an interior that is a direct bastardisation between the old S3 and the TT - definately bits of both. Enough room for rear passengers, and a boot which didn't seem smaller than the equivalent A4... *lol*
> 
> Ho hum.
> 
> I had some good news about my house price though, so may end up upping the budget slightly - but considering I reckon I could almost swap the Z directly car for car with a brand new Sportback, that's pretty good going


I was in Audi yesterday, once I'd stopped gut laughing at them _trying _to charge me Â£260 for changing the spark plugs I gave the sportback a good old once over :wink: .

I personally think they're a spot on good looking motor. I wasn't convinced when I saw the pic's in Auto Express but in the flesh it's quite an imposing car. With it being such a new motor I can't see Audi wanting to negotiate on the elevated sales prices tho...


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## PaulS

Carlos said:


> Tim do you need to carry owt else at the same time as the dogs? If not, surely any hatch will do as you can fold the rear seats...much bigger choice if you are not limiting yourself to estates...


If you only need the rear space for the dogs, why not just keep the Landie and upgrade to a 4 seater coupe (or 4 door) sports car? I've kept my 405TD estate as my runabout car - has absolutely no street cred but is comfortable and economical on long runs. Zero depreciation and no trade in losses. And then when I get back in the Monaro - much more fun as it's such a huge contrast! Is it the lack of 4 seats in the Z that is making you consider a new car - you need to carry occasional passengers in the back?

A3 sportback just looks too run of the mill to me and does not stand out from the crown enough to warrant being a cherished car. I don't like the new front grille either.

Secondhand S4 avant would be my choice if you really want an estate.


----------



## jampott

PaulS said:


> Carlos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tim do you need to carry owt else at the same time as the dogs? If not, surely any hatch will do as you can fold the rear seats...much bigger choice if you are not limiting yourself to estates...
> 
> 
> 
> If you only need the rear space for the dogs, why not just keep the Landie and upgrade to a coupe (or 4 door) sports car? I've kept my 405TD estate as my runabout car - has absolutely no street cred but is comfortable and economical on long runs. And then when I get back in the Monaro - much more fun as it's such a huge contrast! Is it the lack of 4 seats in the Z that is making you consider a new car?
Click to expand...

No...

I'm supposed to be moving house, and this means I have to bring the dogs with me (they are currently living with my live-in dog-sitter in Cardiff)

As I'll no longer have a dog sitter, I'll need to take them with me when I travel back to the Midlands (likely to be every other weekend) which I can't do in the landrover...

Can't fit the dogs in the Z, can't take the landrover long trips, so need to sort something


----------



## Kell

To get two dalmations in it and be comfortablefor any length of time, It's going to need to be a tall car. People carrier, SUV, 4x4 all fit the bill, but you might (and it is just a might) that a normal estate car isn't fair on the dogs.

I can see you in a Citroen C8 actually Tim...

My uncle has one as his dog transporter. They have two Irish Wolfhounds. Big even for Irish Wolfhounds. And while their old Xantia Estate carried them, they had to lie down in it and couldn't physically sit up. In the end, to be fair to the dogs they bought a bigger car. Well, van actually.

It absolutely stinks though.


----------



## jampott

Kell said:


> To get two dalmations in it and be comfortablefor any length of time, It's going to need to be a tall car. People carrier, SUV, 4x4 all fit the bill, but you might (and it is just a might) that a normal estate car isn't fair on the dogs.
> 
> I can see you in a Citroen C8 actually Tim...
> 
> My uncle has one as his dog transporter. They have two Irish Wolfhounds. Big even for Irish Wolfhounds. And while their old Xantia Estate carried them, they had to lie down in it and couldn't physically sit up. In the end, to be fair to the dogs they bought a bigger car. Well, van actually.
> 
> It absolutely stinks though.


They lie down when travelling... actually its the one time they DO behave themselves


----------



## Kell

Ignore all of the above then.


----------



## PaulS

jampott said:


> They lie down when travelling... actually its the one time they DO behave themselves


Who's going to do most of the driving, the dogs or you? :roll:

Get your self a cheap diesel estate for the dogs - I'm sure they won't notice the difference - you can get a good Xantia or 405 for under Â£1000 (with aircon :wink: ) and you can use it to transport all your junk when you move house. Then you can spend virtually all of the money from the Z (or more) on something special.

I guess the only catch is whether you will be able to suffer 'the shame' of driving around in an estate, now and again :roll:


----------



## garyc

PaulS said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> They lie down when travelling... actually its the one time they DO behave themselves
> 
> 
> 
> Who's going to do most of the driving, the dogs or you? :roll:
> 
> Get your self a cheap diesel estate for the dogs - I'm sure they won't notice the difference - you can get a good Xantia or 405 for under Â£1000 (with aircon :wink: ) and you can use it to transport all your junk when you move house. Then you can spend virtually all of the money from the Z (or more) on something special.
> 
> I guess the only catch is whether you will be able to suffer 'the shame' of driving around in an estate, now and again :roll:
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more.


----------



## jampott

garyc said:


> PaulS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> They lie down when travelling... actually its the one time they DO behave themselves
> 
> 
> 
> Who's going to do most of the driving, the dogs or you? :roll:
> 
> Get your self a cheap diesel estate for the dogs - I'm sure they won't notice the difference - you can get a good Xantia or 405 for under Â£1000 (with aircon :wink: ) and you can use it to transport all your junk when you move house. Then you can spend virtually all of the money from the Z (or more) on something special.
> 
> I guess the only catch is whether you will be able to suffer 'the shame' of driving around in an estate, now and again :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Couldn't agree more.
Click to expand...

Me too.... EXCEPT!! The house I'm buying is within walking distance of work, in the same way my flat is at the moment. This means the ONLY driving I'm likely to be doing is in the "ESTATE"... so even if I got an old banger one, I'd still have a Zed and a Landrover (both of which I love) neither of which would EVER get driven...

Seems pointless to buy a "shed" to cart the dogs around in, and never drive anything else. I may as well sell the Z (and maybe the Landy too) - in which case, I've the money to spend on a nicer estate...

*shrug*

Just had some relatively good news. Might be close to settling the damage claim from my March Nova incident. Thought I was renewing with 0 NCB in December (ouch) but it looks like I may have 3 years afterall, which removes some of my insurance worries!


----------



## garyc

:idea: How does Â£10K for a 99 A6Q 2.7T Tip Avant sound? That's a lot of car for the money. It's basically the S4 mki running gear (detuned to 250 hp) in the A6 avant body. Not that many around - they attracted older more cautious drivers and therefore tended not to be caned too much either.

You will probably find a 50K miles example for that money, and it will have another 100K miles motoring for your money and the ability to lug some loads as required - or cruise more quietly than the Z. Relatively anonymous too.. :idea:


----------



## jampott

I'm considering an older R plate-ish S4 too... or maybe even an RS2. Neither should lose much more...


----------



## R6B TT

Tim
I saw a very nice 2001 Y S4 Avant at Croft Motors yesterday - 29K miles, priced at 19995. Dark blue metallic with Black leather interior.


----------



## Kell

Kell said:


> Don't know what I'd do in your position, but I think I'd probably go for a newer S4 Avant - ie new shape. Bigger than the RS4 in terms of rear seat passenger space - couldn't beleive the lack of legroom in the back of Thorney's. When he was driving it, I doub't you'd have got anyone in the back - even a kid. Still under warranty. Still has almost the kudos of the RS4.
> 
> Tough decision, but a nice one.


Just remember to have a look at the rear seat space if you do go for an older (pre Y reg) A4.

Mate of mine dismissed it out of hand and he only has an 18 month old kid and not boys to have to lug around on family outings.


----------



## jampott

Kell said:


> Kell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know what I'd do in your position, but I think I'd probably go for a newer S4 Avant - ie new shape. Bigger than the RS4 in terms of rear seat passenger space - couldn't beleive the lack of legroom in the back of Thorney's. When he was driving it, I doub't you'd have got anyone in the back - even a kid. Still under warranty. Still has almost the kudos of the RS4.
> 
> Tough decision, but a nice one.
> 
> 
> 
> Just remember to have a look at the rear seat space if you do go for an older (pre Y reg) A4.
> 
> Mate of mine dismissed it out of hand and he only has an 18 month old kid and not boys to have to lug around on family outings.
Click to expand...

Ta Kell 

Car stuff on hold while I sort out my bloody house at the moment, which I was hoping to have sorted alread this week!


----------



## scoTTy

Kell said:


> Just remember to have a look at the rear seat space if you do go for an older (pre Y reg) A4.
> 
> Mate of mine dismissed it out of hand and he only has an 18 month old kid and not boys to have to lug around on family outings.


It not exactly limo size space on the new A4 either. We don't need the rear space but I was surprised about it. I recently managed to squeeze two bikers in the back in all their leathers but it was quite tight. At least they didn't get thrown around the car!


----------



## Kell

Are the Avants any longer at all? Looked at one in Amersham some weeks back (standard, not S4) and it was certainly better than the old A4.

Not a popular choice, but the Passat has tonnes of room in the rear. Actually a comfortable place for an adult to be.

W8 Passat Tim? Or V6 4Motion take your fancy?


----------



## jampott

Kell said:


> Are the Avants any longer at all? Looked at one in Amersham some weeks back (standard, not S4) and it was certainly better than the old A4.
> 
> Not a popular choice, but the Passat has tonnes of room in the rear. Actually a comfortable place for an adult to be.
> 
> W8 Passat Tim? Or V6 4Motion take your fancy?


I was looking at something with more than adequate performance. S4 / RS4 etc. Several hundred BHP is a requirement


----------



## garyc

scoTTy said:


> Kell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just remember to have a look at the rear seat space if you do go for an older (pre Y reg) A4.
> 
> Mate of mine dismissed it out of hand and he only has an 18 month old kid and not boys to have to lug around on family outings.
> 
> 
> 
> It not exactly limo size space on the new A4 either. We don't need the rear space but I was surprised about it. I recently managed to squeeze two bikers in the back in all their leathers but it was quite tight. At least they didn't get thrown around the car!
Click to expand...

More leg room (or more precisely foot and knee room) in back of 3 series and a mki or ii A4. Loads in an A6.


----------



## R6B TT

jampott said:


> Kell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are the Avants any longer at all? Looked at one in Amersham some weeks back (standard, not S4) and it was certainly better than the old A4.
> 
> Not a popular choice, but the Passat has tonnes of room in the rear. Actually a comfortable place for an adult to be.
> 
> W8 Passat Tim? Or V6 4Motion take your fancy?
> 
> 
> 
> I was looking at something with more than adequate performance. S4 / RS4 etc. Several hundred BHP is a requirement
Click to expand...

W8 4 Motion has 275BHP. Theres a 300 mile Nov 2003 one at Motorworld of Kidlington (Oxford) for 22K


----------



## Kell

not sure I understand the following...



> More leg room (or more precisely foot and knee room) in back of 3 series and a mki or ii A4. Loads in an A6.


Did you mean

More leg room (or more precisely foot and knee room) in back of 3 series *than* a mki or ii A4. Loads in an A6.

?


----------



## scoTTy

Kell said:


> Are the Avants any longer at all?


Rear head room is a little bigger in the avant but that's the only difference.


----------



## digimeisTTer

How about a T5 Estate :lol: :lol: [smiley=policeman.gif]

Is that my coat then? 8)


----------



## ag

And aren't you forgetting the SAAB 95 AERO HOT Estate?


----------



## garyc

Kell said:


> not sure I understand the following...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More leg room (or more precisely foot and knee room) in back of 3 series and a mki or ii A4. Loads in an A6.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you mean
> 
> More leg room (or more precisely foot and knee room) in back of 3 series *than* a mki or ii A4. Loads in an A6.
> 
> ?
Click to expand...

Yes.


----------



## jampott

ag said:


> And aren't you forgetting the SAAB 95 AERO HOT Estate?


Mmmmm could be a possibility, but...

Gonna see if I can test drive a 330d this weekend now. It has 200+bhp and is tuneable. Comes in under budget, will save me in car insurance, and save me a packet in servicing (free) and fuel costs (40mpg)...

Audi have completely shot themselves in the foot, as per usual... and are likely to miss out on almost Â£60k of customers money over the next month or so as a result. To$$ers.


----------



## PaulS

jampott said:


> ag said:
> 
> 
> 
> And aren't you forgetting the SAAB 95 AERO HOT Estate?
> 
> 
> 
> Mmmmm could be a possibility, but...
> 
> Gonna see if I can test drive a 330d this weekend now. It has 200+bhp and is tuneable. Comes in under budget, will save me in car insurance, and save me a packet in servicing (free) and fuel costs 40mpg
Click to expand...

JampoTT in a BMW :lol: after all the things you said about BMWs and their drivers :roll: Eat your hat time :wink:

(yes I know a 330D is a sensible car for such circumstances  )


----------



## jampott

PaulS said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ag said:
> 
> 
> 
> And aren't you forgetting the SAAB 95 AERO HOT Estate?
> 
> 
> 
> Mmmmm could be a possibility, but...
> 
> Gonna see if I can test drive a 330d this weekend now. It has 200+bhp and is tuneable. Comes in under budget, will save me in car insurance, and save me a packet in servicing (free) and fuel costs 40mpg
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JampoTT in a BMW :lol: after all the things you said about BMWs and their drivers :roll: Eat your hat time :wink:
> 
> (yes I know a 330D is a sensible choice in such circumstances  )
Click to expand...

Stop it. I'm already traumatised.

Biggest problem is all my workmates (well, 90% of them) get seriously cheap BMW deals as the company is owned by BMW. As a contractor, I don't...


----------



## Kell

Can't you get one of them to use thier dicount for you?

They buy the car at a huge discount, you buy it from them at huge discount + Â£1,000. Everybody's happy?


----------



## jampott

Kell said:


> Can't you get one of them to use thier dicount for you?
> 
> They buy the car at a huge discount, you buy it from them at huge discount + Â£1,000. Everybody's happy?


I don't think so... I'm trying to find out. They sell off the 9 month old cars at cost, too


----------



## PaulS

jampott said:


> Stop it. I'm already traumatised


Ahh how your motoring 'needs' change with time - to suit work and the family. Now you need a four seater, an estate, and a DIESEL (!)

Jeez, you'll be towing a caravan next  :wink: :wink:


----------



## Steve_Mc

330D? And there was me thinking you were in the market for a performance motor....

:wink: :wink: :wink:     :lol: :evil: :evil:


----------



## PaulS

FWIW, I considered a 330D coupe (and a petrol) a while back, before I opted for the Monaro.

Whilst the 330D undoubtedly offers a great blend of performance and economy, it just wasnâ€™t that different, and did not live up to my requirement of something â€˜specialâ€™ for the weekend - I wanted a road burner and the Monaro certainly delivers in this respect :evil: I think GaryC suggested that a 330D would not fit the bill, for me. Still, I suppose if you do get one, you will have plenty of other owners to wave at, on the road :wink:

It sounds like you want to have your cake, _and_ eat it. The way I see it - if you really must have an estate with a considerable amount of HP, youâ€™re going to have to bite your lip (again) and buy an S4 Avant or secondhand RS4.

I still maintain that buying a second cheaper diesel estate (or a banger as you put it!) for dog carrying duties, is a solution. I regularly maintain my 405 to a high standard, I keep it looking smart, and it has cost me virtually nothing over 3 years and 30k miles.

So sell that farmyard contraption, and the coupe with only 2 seats, and get your self a proper 4 seater performance car


----------



## Steve_Mc

On the performance estate tip, I see that one of my local independents is selling a Pininfarini converted 456 GT Touring. Link here.



















Only Â£200k (but cheaper than the Carrera GT they're flogging for Â£370k  )


----------



## jam

The Sultan of Brunei had 3 of those made I think!


----------



## garyc

PaulS said:


> FWIW, I considered a 330D coupe (and a petrol) a while back, before I opted for the Monaro.
> 
> Whilst the 330D undoubtedly offers a great blend of performance and economy, it just wasnâ€™t that different, and did not live up to my requirement of something â€˜specialâ€™ for the weekend - I wanted a road burner and the Monaro certainly delivers in this respect :evil: I think GaryC suggested that a 330D would not fit the bill, for me. Still, I suppose if you do get one, you will have plenty of other owners to wave at, on the road :wink:
> 
> It sounds like you want to have your cake, _and_ eat it. The way I see it - if you really must have an estate with a considerable amount of HP, youâ€™re going to have to bite your lip (again) and buy an S4 Avant or secondhand RS4.
> 
> I still maintain that buying a second cheaper diesel estate (or a banger as you put it!) for dog carrying duties, is a solution. I regularly maintain my 405 to a high standard, I keep it looking smart, and it has cost me virtually nothing over 3 years and 30k miles.
> 
> So sell that farmyard contraption, and the coupe with only 2 seats, and get your self a proper 4 seater performance car


As one of the first RS4 owners and a current high mileage 330D driver, i think I am qualified to state categorically that the 330d _when tuned_ is every bit as good as the RS4 for 8/10ths driving - which is most of the time for me. All out of course it's slower, but with the same mid range torque (a little more actually) it doesn't always feel it - ergo most of time it's A-OK out there doing it's stuff. Plus it has far more comfortable seats, and infinitely superior stereo, bettering steering, goes twice as far on the same amount of fuel, and has an image problem. :twisted: It will more than hold it's own against most sub 300hp cars. Believe you me an RS4 (like the M3s I keep pissing off) will have to work a lot harder than our I Irish forum friend would like to believe, to well and truely lose a hard driven TB'd 330D. Ask Carlos who is on record as seriously harrassing a P1 with his 330D at Goodwood(?).

The RS4 is a great car. But so is the 330D T for the motoring you allude to.

BUT you do need the TB. You are still welcome to try mine. You should probably get both...and a little shopping car. :wink:


----------



## Steve_Mc

I believe every word you say about the 330D plus TB Gary, don't worry :wink: I also know that you've owned both an RS4 and an M3 before so you're probably the best person on here by miles to comment on them [smiley=thumbsup.gif] My earlier comments were totally in jest, good to see you rising above them 

Your comment on 80% of the time the 330 will be sufficient is very valid. I have been very quick to defend the RS4 against your criticisms, but I feel you have maybe missed the one fault that I find. The peak power is 380bhp BUT is at 6,100 revs. The dyno plot for a standard car also shows the power staying at 380 all the way from 6,100 to the 7,000 redline. This is taken from Audi Driver mag.










Now this in most circumstances is a "good thing", and on straight line blasts this will be the best weapon in my armoury. However around town (or around corners  ) is a different story - it's not that you have to keep it on the boil constantly in a VTEC type way, it's just to make a * real* and *noticable *difference at everyday speeds you need the revs high (4k minimum) and the turbos spooled. Fine if you like that sort of thing, but if not driven hard then the RS4 does perform in a rather more pedestrian manner, and the likes of the 330 will hold their own.

I'm off to Goodwood in a couple of weeks hopefully - up against some serious metal (rumoured to include 360CS and a Carrera GT), so will be returning tail firmly between legs and accepting all abuse you wish to throw in my direction :wink:


----------



## jgoodman00

Steve_Mc said:


> On the performance estate tip, I see that one of my local independents is selling a Pininfarini converted 456 GT Touring. Link here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only Â£200k (but cheaper than the Carrera GT they're flogging for Â£370k  )


It looks bad enough from the outside, & that is before I noticed the green interior...


----------



## jampott

I drove the BMW at the weekend - albeit a slightly older model, and with an Auto box... but to be honest, it really left me cold.

Head says get something sensible, or an old banger Estate car...

Heart says find a dealer willing to do a proper deal on an S4 Avant, fit the new Pioneer satnav, waste another Â£1600 at AMD and ignore my ISA for the year


----------



## jampott

and to add fuel to the fire...

Checking round BRAND NEW stock, I can find a reasonably well specced S4 Avant, unregistered, delivery miles, BOSE, 6CD etc etc in the colour I want for.... erm Â£37k.


----------



## scoTTy

Sounds like a few grand saving. 

I don't think you (I don't mean specifically YOU but anyone) can really justify an S4 from with the brain. The costs don't really weigh up BUT if you want that sound and power delivery etc etc then you don't have to justify it.


----------



## jampott

scoTTy said:


> Sounds like a few grand saving.
> 
> I don't think you (I don't mean specifically YOU but anyone) can really justify an S4 from with the brain. The costs don't really weigh up BUT if you want that sound and power delivery etc etc then you don't have to justify it.


you'd be surprised what I can justify in my little world, Paul 

Seriously - a specced up 330d (end of life) Touring is about Â£37k, and thats with not quite ALL the boxes ticked...

But the S4 Avant is the same money...

What's a guy to do?

BMW has economy and hideability, but a truly dreadful cabin, a new model in the pipeline and an image I'm still not 100% comfortable with.

The S4 is uneconomical, but a far better car in all other areas (dealer network aside...)


----------



## scoTTy

Woo hoo !!

Sounds justified to me.


----------



## jampott

scoTTy said:


> Woo hoo !!
> 
> Sounds justified to me.


kmp is trying to talk me into a Merc AMG Estate 

oh heck, I can see myself driving a Noggy blue S4 before the month is out...

*chuckle*

Anyone want a cheap Z?


----------



## kmpowell

Click Here


----------



## jampott

Do you not think its a bit grey inside, Kev?


----------



## scavenger

jampott said:


> Anyone want a cheap Z?


Err no..!!

But for once I actually listened to someone (that's you Tim) so am making business changes which should free up a tidy sum a month. Being bored with the TT (but still achingly in love with it every time I look at it) I am getting bored with it so some different wheels are on the cards for next year.

I agree on the dislike of the 3 series cabin. I always feel cramped in them. I do like the A4 cabin. I find it spacious and well laid out. Audi reliability has been an issue with me and the TT, and residual value is a consideration with the new model coming out (but I guess not for a minted chap like yerself :wink: )

Paul's S4 does it for me every time I hear it. Also it's a Q car. They are very understated (which is a consideration for an idiot like me but maybe not for you).

Personally I would take a look at a DB7 for that money, but then again I am stupid [smiley=dunce2.gif]

It's a hatch back right, so take the parcel shelf out and the dogs can jump in the back


----------



## ag

Vek, Have you seen the price of the Merc on their finance Â£52k? What are you thinking? When Tim said AMG I was thinking more a used E55 Truck. Â£20k should see a 60k miler on his drive with enough room for kids, dogs and the truck loads of money necessary for the enevitable speeding fines 350BHP brings. And when it is old and knackered you can just stick a diesel badge on it and sell it to an antiques dealer. Purrfect.


----------



## PaulS

jampott said:


> I drove the BMW at the weekend - albeit a slightly older model, and with an Auto box... but to be honest, it really left me cold.
> Head says get something sensible, or an old banger Estate car...


----------



## PaulS

jampott said:


> I drove the BMW at the weekend - albeit a slightly older model, and with an Auto box... but to be honest, it really left me cold.
> Head says get something sensible, or an old banger Estate car...


Since when has 'doing the sensible thing' been the sensible thing to do? You know you'll always regret it :wink:

You can't beat a V8. Against all advice, I bought the Monaro, and am loving every minute of it! Then again, I do have the 'old banger' diesel (wheres Lord V :roll: ) to fall back on when economics dictate :roll:



scavanger said:


> Personally I would take a look at a DB7 for that money, but then again I am stupid


Very sensible idea  :wink:


----------



## jampott

scavenger said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone want a cheap Z?
> 
> 
> 
> Err no..!!
> 
> But for once I actually listened to someone (that's you Tim) so am making business changes which should free up a tidy sum a month. Being bored with the TT (but still achingly in love with it every time I look at it) I am getting bored with it so some different wheels are on the cards for next year.
> 
> I agree on the dislike of the 3 series cabin. I always feel cramped in them. I do like the A4 cabin. I find it spacious and well laid out. Audi reliability has been an issue with me and the TT, and residual value is a consideration with the new model coming out (but I guess not for a minted chap like yerself :wink: )
> 
> Paul's S4 does it for me every time I hear it. Also it's a Q car. They are very understated (which is a consideration for an idiot like me but maybe not for you).
> 
> Personally I would take a look at a DB7 for that money, but then again I am stupid [smiley=dunce2.gif]
> 
> It's a hatch back right, so take the parcel shelf out and the dogs can jump in the back
Click to expand...

Nice one P 

So what changes you got planned business-wise? Drop me an IM...

I like the Q-ness of the S4. But in Nogaro blue, I don't think its TOO shy


----------



## gcp

jampott said:


> I drove the BMW at the weekend - albeit a slightly older model, and with an Auto box... but to be honest, it really left me cold.
> 
> Head says get something sensible, or an old banger Estate car...
> 
> Heart says find a dealer willing to do a proper deal on an S4 Avant, fit the new Pioneer satnav, waste another Â£1600 at AMD and ignore my ISA for the year


Auto-box is completely different drive, esp with the 184 bhp engine.

Just bought a Passat estate for the missus, 1.8 20V, 1998, 1 owner, VWSH for Â£3K.

I fell out of love with Audi CS, another new one was a definate no no for me.


----------



## scoTTy

Sometimes I think mines a bit bling with all the shiny bits against the red but other times I think it's really stealthy. :?

Here's a 1.8T S-line and my S4. It's stealthy enough for me although the plate gives a (not so) subtle hint to those who know their cars.

http://www.********.co.uk/gallery/scotty/ringpic_sline_sml.jpg


----------



## jampott

scoTTy said:


> Sometimes I think mines a bit bling with all the shiny bits against the red but other times I think it's really stealthy. :?
> 
> Here's a 1.8T S-line and my S4. It's stealthy enough for me although the plate gives a (not so) subtle hint to those who know their cars.
> 
> http://www.********.co.uk/gallery/scotty/ringpic_sline_sml.jpg


Its the same car with a different tax disc and wingmirrors


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## garyc

gcp said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> I drove the BMW at the weekend - albeit a slightly older model, and with an Auto box... but to be honest, it really left me cold.
> 
> Head says get something sensible, or an old banger Estate car...
> 
> Heart says find a dealer willing to do a proper deal on an S4 Avant, fit the new Pioneer satnav, waste another Â£1600 at AMD and ignore my ISA for the year
> 
> 
> 
> Auto-box is completely different drive, esp with the 184 bhp engine.
> 
> Just bought a Passat estate for the missus, 1.8 20V, 1998, 1 owner, VWSH for Â£3K.
> 
> I fell out of love with Audi CS, another new one was a definate no no for me.
Click to expand...

I think carlos had an auto 185hp before the proper one, and would concur.

No matter: I am sure that a 350z with 10% less power, non-sports suspension and a slush box might leave one cold also. :wink:

Buying a late/new S4 when there is a new (albeit pug ugly) version just around the corner, is hardly sensible. Discounts given now will instantly be swallowed by the drop in residuals as the new model ships. Dealers tend to have this both figured in and factored out.

But hey, you only live once - damn the 20K miles min Â£10K+ depreciation that comes with S4 ownership - Do it!


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## jampott

garyc said:


> gcp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> I drove the BMW at the weekend - albeit a slightly older model, and with an Auto box... but to be honest, it really left me cold.
> 
> Head says get something sensible, or an old banger Estate car...
> 
> Heart says find a dealer willing to do a proper deal on an S4 Avant, fit the new Pioneer satnav, waste another Â£1600 at AMD and ignore my ISA for the year
> 
> 
> 
> Auto-box is completely different drive, esp with the 184 bhp engine.
> 
> Just bought a Passat estate for the missus, 1.8 20V, 1998, 1 owner, VWSH for Â£3K.
> 
> I fell out of love with Audi CS, another new one was a definate no no for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think carlos had an auto 185hp before the proper one, and would concur.
> 
> No matter: I am sure that a 350z with 10% less power, non-sports suspension and a slush box might leave one cold also. :wink:
> 
> Buying a late/new S4 when there is a new (albeit pug ugly) version just around the corner, is hardly sensible. Discounts given now will instantly be swallowed by the drop in residuals as the new model ships. Dealers tend to have this both figured in and factored out.
> 
> But hey, you only live once - damn the 20K miles min Â£10K+ depreciation that comes with S4 ownership - Do it!
Click to expand...

But but but... the BMW cabin was the biggest turn off for me. Horrid black cubes, nasty fisherprice dashboard and a general aura that didn't suit.

As much as I bored of the "stylishness" of the TT interior, there is no doubt that it feels quality and is, at least, modern. That BMW interior is dated. Designed in the early 90's, it shows I'm afraid... the Nissan interior, whilst it uses cheaper plastics, is a much nicer place to be...

I don't think the S4 is that sensible a purchase, but not to worry  I need an estate, and the higher depreciation costs and fuel bills of the S4 greatly outweigh any cost saving of going BMW. I can't see a Merc auto fitting the bill either...

Pah. Lets see what sort of deal they can do. If I feel I'm getting a "good 'un" I'll be fine... I need to drive something I enjoy, and 65k miles in the last ~3 years has taught me that much at least. Whilst my mileage is cutting down a bit, I need to keep the same level of enjoyment...


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## chowy

Try this Alpina B3S with 300 bhp
Autocar has given great reviews of this estate and EVO magazine recorded the a better lap time round the Bedford West track!!

I test drove one along side the M3 and must say that it was a tough call!!

PS second pic is the saloon as I couldn't find a front shot of the Estate


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## jampott

Nice, but how much is it?!


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## chowy

jampott said:


> Nice, but how much is it?!


Starts at around Â£38-39K and you know about the extras!

go to www.alpinabmw.co.uk

Sytners are the sole importers of Alpinas in the UK.

If you can find a used one then you'll get a bargain but they are made in very limited numbers!

There are also good discounts to be had on new ones as I was offered a Â£42K specced car for Â£38K. There was also a Â£49K specced sallon that was going for Â£42K!

Go for a test drive and you will be impressed!!


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## paulb

Alpinas define steep depreciation... Fantastic machines though


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## PaulS

jampott said:


> I need to drive something I enjoy, and 65k miles in the last ~3 years has taught me that much at least. Whilst my mileage is cutting down a bit, I need to keep the same level of enjoyment...


Similar situation for me - although my daily commute is just 6 miles now - rather than the 70 I used to do, in and out of London  It just ain't worth firing up a 5.7 V8 for the trip, so I'm happy with the Pug as a second car for commuting. And when i do go out in the Monaro - well pleased I bought a V8 :wink: so go for one [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

If you get the Avant, may be we could get that other marques/v8(?) meet underway at Bedford on the 30th :wink:

http://fastrakdays.com/site/eview.php?e=20


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## garyc

chowy said:


> Try this Alpina B3S with 300 bhp
> Autocar has given great reviews of this estate and EVO magazine recorded the a better lap time round the Bedford West track!!
> 
> I test drove one along side the M3 and must say that it was a tough call!!
> 
> PS second pic is the saloon as I couldn't find a front shot of the Estate


Shame about the dated Fisher Price interior. Tim prefers MFI. :wink:


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## scoTTy

PaulS said:


> If you get the Avant, may be we could get that other marques/v8(?) meet underway at Bedford on the 30th :wink:
> 
> looks like it's full
> 
> http://fastrakdays.com/site/eview.php?e=20


It says 9 places left on that page. :roll:

I'm thinking of doing Silverstone GP instead a couple of weeks later as I've only ever done that in a Caterham in the rain.

Regarding BMW interiors : the last two beemers I've been in have trim around the cabin that looks like (and I believe is) black plastic with a weave pattern in it to make it look (a bit) like carbon fibre.

Apologies to anyone reading who may have this but it's plain horrid and looks exceedingly cheap.


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## jampott

scoTTy said:


> PaulS said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you get the Avant, may be we could get that other marques/v8(?) meet underway at Bedford on the 30th :wink:
> 
> looks like it's full
> 
> http://fastrakdays.com/site/eview.php?e=20
> 
> 
> 
> It says 9 places left on that page. :roll:
> 
> I'm thinking of doing Silverstone GP instead a couple of weeks later as I've only ever done that in a Caterham in the rain.
> 
> Regarding BMW interiors : the last two beemers I've been in have trim around the cabine that looks like (and I believe is) black plastic with a weave pattern in it to make it look (a bit) like carbon fibre.
> 
> Apologies to anyone reading who may have this but it's plain horrid and looks exceedingly cheap.
Click to expand...

Yeah thats the "black cube" interior. Sorry, but its not for me...


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## kmpowell

ag said:


> Vek, Have you seen the price of the Merc on their finance Â£52k? What are you thinking? When Tim said AMG I was thinking more a used E55 Truck. Â£20k should see a 60k miler on his drive with enough room for kids, dogs and the truck loads of money necessary for the enevitable speeding fines 350BHP brings. And when it is old and knackered you can just stick a diesel badge on it and sell it to an antiques dealer. Purrfect.


Im not suggesting Tim takes out the finance package! The car is Â£39k wihout the finance, 350+bhp, Q car looks, and luxurious! Screw the Audi, when you can have a car like that backed up by a superb dealer network.


----------



## gcp

jampott said:


> scoTTy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaulS said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you get the Avant, may be we could get that other marques/v8(?) meet underway at Bedford on the 30th :wink:
> 
> looks like it's full
> 
> http://fastrakdays.com/site/eview.php?e=20
> 
> 
> 
> It says 9 places left on that page. :roll:
> 
> I'm thinking of doing Silverstone GP instead a couple of weeks later as I've only ever done that in a Caterham in the rain.
> 
> Regarding BMW interiors : the last two beemers I've been in have trim around the cabine that looks like (and I believe is) black plastic with a weave pattern in it to make it look (a bit) like carbon fibre.
> 
> Apologies to anyone reading who may have this but it's plain horrid and looks exceedingly cheap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah thats the "black cube" interior. Sorry, but its not for me...
Click to expand...

Â£180 gets it changed to titanium.


----------



## scoTTy

Sounds like it would be money well spent.


----------



## chowy

I agree about some of the interior trim in BMW's are a bit cheap looking especially in some of the lower spec cars.

You can always get Carbon interior which looks quality!

This was fitted to a CSL but is available for std. E46 cars too


















AC Schnitzer also make caron trim in silver or black that looks fantastic!


----------



## garyc

PaulS said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> I need to drive something I enjoy, and 65k miles in the last ~3 years has taught me that much at least. Whilst my mileage is cutting down a bit, I need to keep the same level of enjoyment...
> 
> 
> 
> Similar situation for me - although my daily commute is just 6 miles now - rather than the 70 I used to do, in and out of London  It just ain't worth firing up a 5.7 V8 for the trip, so I'm happy with the Pug as a second car for commuting. And when i do go out in the Monaro - well pleased I bought a V8 :wink: so go for one [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
> 
> If you get the Avant, may be we could get that other marques/v8(?) meet underway at Bedford on the 30th :wink:
> 
> http://fastrakdays.com/site/eview.php?e=20
Click to expand...

Like he's really going to take a brand new car and horse it around the track...


----------



## PaulS

garyc said:


> Like he's really going to take a brand new car and horse it around the track...


 :roll:

No sense of adventure then? :wink:


----------



## ag

So, Tim, is the S4 Avant a definate? Good choice, build quality wise, the A4 range is in a different league to the TT (Better that is).


----------



## jampott

ag said:


> So, Tim, is the S4 Avant a definate? Good choice, build quality wise, the A4 range is in a different league to the TT (Better that is).


I hope so... just doing the sums at the moment, and concerned that applying for a different (and higher) car finance while my mortgage is going through isn't perhaps the most sensible thing to do....

But yeah, I hope so


----------



## jonno

jampott said:


> ... just doing the sums at the moment, and concerned that applying for a different (and higher) car finance while my mortgage is going through isn't perhaps the most sensible thing to do....
> But yeah, I hope so


...credit scoring aside, if you can get a lower secured rate (and have enough equity) it can make good sense.


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## HighTT

[No message]


----------



## HighTT

jampott said:


> ag said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, Tim, is the S4 Avant a definate? Good choice, build quality wise, the A4 range is in a different league to the TT (Better that is).
> 
> 
> 
> I hope so...
> 
> But yeah, I hope so
Click to expand...

So when you get your nice new clean expensive S4 Avant do you really want to let slobbery, hair dropping dogs with sharp claws in the back :!: :?: :!: :?:

And also I don't see the point in paying out for fast transport, for dogs.
(they are not allowed on trackdays :wink: )

My dog is really clever, or maybe stupid; when I say 'Car' , it runs to the rear of my sluggish boring estate car (which then gets driven gently for the dog's sake) ..... it never goes near the rear of my TT Coupe, into
which it could lie down comfortably.


----------



## R6B TT

HighTT said:


> So when you get your nice new clean expensive S4 Avant do you really want to let slobbery, hair dropping dogs with sharp claws in the back :!: :?: :!: :?:


That was his old gf the new one is much better :wink:


----------



## garyc

R6B TT said:


> HighTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when you get your nice new clean expensive S4 Avant do you really want to let slobbery, hair dropping dogs with sharp claws in the back :!: :?: :!: :?:
> 
> 
> 
> That was his old gf the new one is much better :wink:
Click to expand...

I was going to say no need to bring Lisa into it. 

ps no offence BG. :-*


----------

