# RS4 B5 and RS4 B7. what are the differences?



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Hi Guys,

Having a radical rethink motor wise...

We have BMW 330Ci, BMW 540i Touring, TTR...

I miss my Nothelle S2 Avant. 320bhp of pure REAL 4WD

My wife now hates her 330Ci after poor performance in the snow.

I like the V8 of the 540. Correction, I love it!

We both love the TTR.

What car should we go for to replace the two BMWs?

Cheers

rich


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

The B5 is "special". The B7 is more comfortable and handles better. A tweaked B5 will outgun a B7 in a straight line.

Really depends if you want something iconic or something "safe" but quick...


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

clived said:


> The B5 is "special". The B7 is more comfortable and handles better. A tweaked B5 will outgun a B7 in a straight line.
> 
> Really depends if you want something iconic or something "safe" but quick...


Well I'd want the former but my wife would like the latter... :lol:

So what are the differences? Is there anywhere online that I can find out and what would I expect to pay for a decent car say with 60k and up to 5 years old?

Cheers Clive

Rich


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

rustyintegrale said:


> clived said:
> 
> 
> > The B5 is "special". The B7 is more comfortable and handles better. A tweaked B5 will outgun a B7 in a straight line.
> ...


Over the years, I've toyed with the idea of getting a B5 RS4 - but as they're getting on, finding one with < 60k on it seems increasingly difficult. Most I saw (and this was a couple of years ago) were around the 100,000k mark.

And I would have thought RS246 would be your best source of info.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Owned a b5, quite often drive a B7. I'd take a B7 anyday. Handle/grip/steer/brake far better, ride better, engine noise better, drivetrain smoother. Doesnt have torque of b5, but it's not exactly limp, and top end zing more than compensates.

B5 was good car, B7 a great Audi. (but i still cant abide that grill)

B7s now from around at £25K at auction and from £30K at dealers. B5s plentiful and cheap. Many modded, on rs246 as clive says. Poss big bills on high milers b5s, esp. modified cars.


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## RK07 (Jul 31, 2007)

I agree with Gary. B7 RS4 is head and shoulders above the B5 and I have extensive experience of both. I took one up from Aberdeen to the north coast and used three tanks of fuel getting to know it a bit better and there are very few cars (of a four door saloon/avant status) that compare to the B7. In fact I've shared many a conversation with friends and customers suggesting they pick up a used RS4 instead of a new S5!


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

So which has the V8 and is it naturally aspirated? Is the B7 just a newer model with the new grille? If so I'd rather go B5. I hate the kebab Audi look...

Still confused. :roll:

Cheers

rich


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

B5 was a 2.7 V6 Twin Turbo. B7 was a 4.2 NA V8.

I think.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

B5 - arguably the more stylish:










B7


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Mmmmm. Like the B7 for the V8 but prefer the style of the B5.

Mebbe a B7 but with all that chintz and nonsense up front blacked out... 8)

cheers

rich


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Right just been on Pistonheads and the B7 is way beyond my budget.

There are some nice B5s on there and £15/16/17k is kinda where I'm looking. That's a lot of car for the money but if it's anything like my S2 Avant there's also a lot of money to be spent maintaining it. Cars like that and of that vintage tend to start wearing expensive parts and have owners that scrimp on maintenance...

I think this might take some time to develop somehow... :roll:

cheers

rich


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## jbell (May 15, 2006)

One of these

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/890011.htm
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/864545.htm
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/843947.htm


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Rich, in 2 1/2 years of B5 ownership, I spent more than I paid for the car on mods and fixing the thing. Obviously you may choose to be less, erm, generous to the car, but be aware that nothing is cheap on a B5 (and not on a B7 either - but that's out of the equation now).


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

jbell said:


> One of these
> 
> http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/890011.htm
> http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/864545.htm
> http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/843947.htm


I like number 1 and 3 but just shown wifey...

"I don't want an estate car..." :?

Bugger.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

rustyintegrale said:


> Right just been on Pistonheads and the B7 is way beyond my budget.
> 
> There are some nice B5s on there and £15/16/17k is kinda where I'm looking. That's a lot of car for the money but if it's anything like my S2 Avant there's also a lot of money to be spent maintaining it. Cars like that and of that vintage tend to start wearing expensive parts and have owners that scrimp on maintenance...
> 
> ...


How about a B7 S4?

Or an e46 M3cs (rather than CSL) ?

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/847106.htm


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

clived said:


> Rich, in 2 1/2 years of B5 ownership, I spent more than I paid for the car on mods and fixing the thing. Obviously you may choose to be less, erm, generous to the car, but be aware that nothing is cheap on a B5 (and not on a B7 either - but that's out of the equation now).


Mmmmmmmm...

So what you're saying is...










And my wife is giving me the flicky Vs..










I think I'll go to the pub... :roll:

Cheers

rich


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## p1tse (Sep 20, 2004)

rustyintegrale said:


> jbell said:
> 
> 
> > One of these
> ...


those are s4's and not rs4, but still very nice


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

garyc said:


> How about a B7 S4?
> 
> Or an e46 M3cs (rather than CSL) ?
> 
> http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/847106.htm


Hi Gary,

Okay, first she wants 4WD, then a boot capable of taking two large suitcases, then economy, then speed :roll: , then looks and lastly, street cred (okay I added that, I'm not driving a pram :wink: )

I want it to be Audi because I want APS to look after it.

Simple brief, yes?!

cheers

rich


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

B7 - S4?

C5 - S6?


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Kell said:


> B7 - S4?
> 
> C5 - S6?


Mate, I'm dealing with the fairer sex. Black - white? :lol:

cheers

Rich


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

I'm not saying don't do it Rich - I'm just saying go in with your eyes open to the potential costs, which are a league above TT ownership, that's for sure. But purchase prices are low, so maybe that mitigates it for you?


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## davidkoulakis (Jul 21, 2008)

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/793314.htm

this is exactly what you need, more power than both the RS4's ! Boot is so big I actually fit in it with the boot shut with ample space. Lots of street cred yet subtle (debadged) [except for the sound!] On cruise control @70mph it gives 30mpg

plus with a warranty, no hidden costs !

what more could you ask for !


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

More power - but not quicker.

Some cred, sure, but not the cred, certainly in the Audi community anyway, of a B5 RS4.

Absolutely more of a barge handling-wise than either RS4.

Almost certain to have damper problems at some point.

Don't get me wrong, I like the RS6 (a lot!) - but I don't think it offers Rich a solution that the RS4 doesn't. Does it really have more luggage space than a B5 (which of course would be an Avant).

What the RS6 does have is more rear leg room!


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## RK07 (Jul 31, 2007)

clived said:


> Rich, in 2 1/2 years of B5 ownership, I spent more than I paid for the car on mods and fixing the thing. Obviously you may choose to be less, erm, generous to the car, but be aware that nothing is cheap on a B5 (and not on a B7 either - but that's out of the equation now).


Just to back this up I replaced an engine for a customer on a B5 RS4 at a cost of £16k  To be fair its the only one I've known of but would strongly recommend not owning one without a warranty. TBH that advice goes for any car of that ilk


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## RK07 (Jul 31, 2007)

clived said:


> More power - but not quicker.
> 
> Some cred, sure, but not the cred, certainly in the Audi community anyway, of a B5 RS4.
> 
> ...


And just to disagree (!) the RS6 (4.2) is a better car than the B5 RS4 but again just my opinion. Agree with the damper issue though. Better to be eyes wide open on any of these types of motor.


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## RK07 (Jul 31, 2007)

In my order;

1) RS6 5.2 V10
2) B7 RS4 4.2 V8
3) RS6 4.2 V8
4) S8 5.2 V10 (I've listed this above the B5 RS4 purely as its uber cool - would be the other way round if based on performance)
5) B5 RS4 2.7 
6) S6 5.2 V10
7) S5 4.2 V8 Tip
8) S5 4.2 V8 Man (just don't click with this gearbox)

Any of these motors need a warranty. I've not included the RS2 or the S2 because I've not been fortunate enough to drive them although I have heard that the RS2 is the most driver focused of them all.

Whateve you do get a Shell points card :lol:


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Thanks for all the advice guys... 

Clive, I know what you mean about running costs. My old S2 Avant was a Nothelle model and comparable in spec to an RS2. In fact I drove an RS2 that I guy I know had on his forecourt and he took mine out. Both of us preferred mine. It was a well-sorted car but as you say, costs for maintenance were sometimes astronomical... 

But I didn't know APS then did I? I reckon Ed and the boys would do me a fair deal on servicing and maintenance and Ed used to have a B5 himself I think.

It's all a bit pie-in-the-sky now because Louise doesn't want to drive an estate. Basically we'd be moving down from 3 to 2 cars, so the TT plus another. I've always argued that we need a load lugger and since we've had the BMW 540 Touring she's come round to my way of thinking, but she just feels the Audi estates are bigger than her 330. I can't quite see why and the driving experience will be a lot more secure in inclement weather. That, afterall is the whole reason for considering the 4WD Audis.

Arguments against them are fuel economy and running costs. Where the BM is a tad thirsty, it has proven ultra reliable and I do nothing other than get a local specialist to service it. Plus the engine is superb...

Cheers

rich


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

davidkoulakis said:


> http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/793314.htm
> 
> this is exactly what you need, more power than both the RS4's ! Boot is so big I actually fit in it with the boot shut with ample space. Lots of street cred yet subtle (debadged) [except for the sound!] On cruise control @70mph it gives 30mpg
> 
> ...


I like it - a bit of a Q-car. I'm not sure she will though... :?


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

Unless she screams the BM in all the gears, surely a 3.0 Tdi A4 Quattro would be ideal in either saloon or avant guise. Specced up they can look very nice, the engine is a peach and in most circumstances is little slower than most cars that you have been talking about as well as offering, relatively, good fuel economy. Also, for your budget, you would be looking at something a lot newer than a B5!


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Audi S6? 5.2l V10?


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

RK07 said:


> And just to disagree (!) the RS6 (4.2) is a better car than the B5 RS4 but again just my opinion. Agree with the damper issue though. Better to be eyes wide open on any of these types of motor.


I wasn't really saying that one is better than the other - they are two different for that  I was just pointing out that all the stated apparent "advantages" of the 6 might not really be what Rich is looking for.

Rich, if you think the BMW is thirsty, how does it compare to the RS4? On average, I was getting about 19.6mpg - and that was on a 130 mile round trip commute, that was 90% motorway. But you can probably guess my average throttle opening


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

RK07 said:


> In my order;
> 
> 1) RS6 5.2 V10
> 2) B7 RS4 4.2 V8
> ...


Now draw a line through those unavailable at the £15K. £16K, £17K budget... :wink:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Kell said:


> Audi S6? 5.2l V10?


Again, over stated budget of £15-£17K by some margin BUT actually alot of car for £25K.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

garyc said:


> Kell said:
> 
> 
> > Audi S6? 5.2l V10?
> ...


By the third page I'd forgotten about budget, but I agree. When I think we paid over that for our Beemer just over a year ago...


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## RK07 (Jul 31, 2007)

clived said:


> RK07 said:
> 
> 
> > And just to disagree (!) the RS6 (4.2) is a better car than the B5 RS4 but again just my opinion. Agree with the damper issue though. Better to be eyes wide open on any of these types of motor.
> ...


Very true


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## RK07 (Jul 31, 2007)

garyc said:


> RK07 said:
> 
> 
> > In my order;
> ...


It wouldn't be an internet forum if someone did not ignore half of the posts within the thread... :lol:


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

RK07 said:


> It wouldn't be an internet forum if someone did not ignore half of the posts within the thread... :lol:


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nice retort :wink:

cheers

Rich


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## elrao (Apr 19, 2005)

Rich

My wife didn't want an estate either, which is why we got the S3 Sportback as opposed to an A4. She had a loan car for a while, which was a Passat estate and she got on fine with it and is now wishing we had bought an A4! Hence why I am looking at B7 RS4s v the new S4 myself (new S4 is about £34k for a 3.0l V6 supercharged) as a possible change in 6 months or so.

Does she drive the 540 touring often to know she doesn't want an estate, or is it just the looks?


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

elrao said:


> Rich
> 
> My wife didn't want an estate either, which is why we got the S3 Sportback as opposed to an A4. She had a loan car for a while, which was a Passat estate and she got on fine with it and is now wishing we had bought an A4! Hence why I am looking at B7 RS4s v the new S4 myself (new S4 is about £34k for a 3.0l V6 supercharged) as a possible change in 6 months or so.
> 
> Does she drive the 540 touring often to know she doesn't want an estate, or is it just the looks?


She drives the 540 a lot, certainly recently. It's the workhorse and she's been helping her Mum move house. She has a 330Ci at the moment and I think her 'problem' is the fact that the 'estate' shouts yummy mummy and she's not! :lol:

Basically the 330Ci has to go for poor economy, crap handling in snow and ice and also because she hates the interior. She'd like something that is automatic, can take at least two large suitcases and is reasonably economical especially on motorway runs. She's not too bothered about performance as long as it's no slouch (I am though :wink: ) I then suggested we move to two cars by getting her an estate so we still have the lugging ability. That way we'd sell the 540 and the 330Ci, save one lot of tax, insurance and servicing costs. By moving to Audi APS would get the maintenance work and we'd save a bit more.

Oh and she wants heated seats too. Loves those! :roll:

Cheers

rich


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