# tt to s4



## stenning (Jun 7, 2003)

i am thinking of changing my tt for a nearly new s4, can anyone what i should look for, additions etc and what kind of price i will be likely to pay.

does anyone think the pending new rs4 will effect prices?

any info on essential mods would be great.

thanks


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

I assume that like with all old models the price will come down once the new one is out.
Never-the-less, I have driven an S4 over a year ago for half a day and even though I'm still saying that I love my TT and that I will never change, I must admit that the S4 is *the best Audi *I've driven to date!! 
If you like the car you've driven, go for it  
There will always be new models out.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Nice move - I wish I'd done the same and gone to a S4 cab - oh well


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

The RS4 wont effect prices of the S4 as they are only making 500 apparently. However there is a new shape S4 out, which would have some impact on the older shape S4's


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## stenning (Jun 7, 2003)

thanks, do you know when the new shape was introduced?

cheers


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## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

Best car in this league is the BMW M3.....


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## stenning (Jun 7, 2003)

can i ask why you say that?


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## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

Well I take it your looking for a four seater performance car.

The BMW M3 is known to be the best in class.

I would be looking in the BMW garage not the Audi:

Better customer service
Better looking car - Audi is bland and looks like your grandad should be driving it
Better performance.

Basically a much better car.


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

stenning said:


> thanks, do you know when the new shape was introduced?
> 
> cheers


Late summer 2004


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

A3DFU said:


> stenning said:
> 
> 
> > thanks, do you know when the new shape was introduced?
> ...


I thought it came out earlier in the year......I'm probably wrong

I'd have a S4 over a M3 anyday


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

genocidalduck said:


> I'd have a S4 over a M3 anyday


I agree completely


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

I think the A4 DTM looks better than the S4........Shame its slower

http://www.fast-autos.net/audi/a4dtmed2.html


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## GW1970 (Jul 4, 2005)

sico said:


> Well I take it your looking for a four seater performance car.
> 
> The BMW M3 is known to be the best in class.
> 
> ...


I would say the BMW is bland and they're everywhere - another face in the crowd. For me Audi exudes class.


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## ScottishAMM (Apr 4, 2005)

The M3 is great ....... if you're a chav ..... or a footballer's wife ........ or selling drugs ........ or live in Billericay ......... I think you get the idea.


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## jwball (Jan 18, 2004)

The RS4 wipes the floor with the M3.
It will be a runaway class leader when released.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

sico said:


> Well I take it your looking for a four seater performance car.
> 
> The BMW M3 is known to be the best in class.
> 
> ...


The best you'll get with a standard M3 over an S4 is it handles slightly better in dry high speed situations & is probably a little lighter, that's about it really. Common as muck (every fcuker has one) & so many are given out as company cars. The S4 will always be a little more exclusive, but if commonality is your bag then a standard M3 is the way to go.

Just want to point out though that i do really like the M3, in both standard & CSL guise, just not a car i'd throw my Â£40K at.


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## Skippy_225TTR (Jun 28, 2005)

Id have to go with the M3 if I had the choice. Agree that it has an Essex boy/Drug dealer image but I think it looks spot on.

Would be nice to see what the new one is going to look like.


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## vernan (May 27, 2002)

I made that switch, and would thoroughly recommend it - the S4 is a different car from the TT in every way. Don't believe that the new model has affected used values for the B6 - it's the same car to all intents and purposes. Also don't believe that it's a "good buy", whether B6 or B7. It's very thirsty, especially around town, it depreciates like a b******, and running costs are very high too.

The RS4, delayed again, is a step forward but also a lot more money. And no avant announced yet. It's Porsche money, and which would you rather have? There's still no firm announcement whether it will be a limited production.

So, try one for at least a day. I haven't regretted the move for a second, but an S4 isn't the obvious choice.

Oh, and it's totally different to the M3. Top Gear found the S4 a fair bit quicker round their track in a back to back test, but it's no sportscar. I would say that the M3 is.


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

BMW drivers = Sheep.
Understated class ie; Audi
Incapable of independent thought ie; BMW.


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## Wojtek (Jan 16, 2005)

ScottishAMM said:


> The M3 is great ....... if you're a chav ..... or a footballer's wife ........ or selling drugs ........ or live in Billericay ......... I think you get the idea.


In the Netherlands the same people drive bmw  .


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

genocidalduck said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> > stenning said:
> ...


You're all wrong. The new shape wasn't introduced until early THIS year.

Dealers stopped taking orders around Oct last year, and I picked up my brand new, unregistered S4 at the end of Oct. It was already in the dealer system and specced up.

The B6 (my shape) was made for a couple of years, and the corporate grill and redesigned rear end (B7) didn't come in until 2005.


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## nolive (Aug 5, 2004)

when BMW will launch his new M3 and M4 derivative with their big V8, I feel for S4 and even RS4 owners 

having said that, it won't happen till end next year/early 2007 so you've got plenty of time to enjoy the exclusivity of your forthcoming S4, if you decide to go for it :wink:

and it's a french guy relocated in Essex surrounded by boyz racers who is saying that


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

I have a mate with an M3, and I know which noise I prefer. Even in standard trim, the V8 rumble is better than the raspy M3 engine, IMHO... but I guess it depends what floats your boat.

If I was after a ragtop, I'd consider the M3 over the S4. I wouldn't consider the saloon version of either, I don't think... but in Avant trim, there really isn't anything to compete with (let alone beat) the S4 at that pricepoint, so it was a no-brainer really.

Of course its a compromise. If I didn't need 5 seats plus luggage / dog capacity, I wouldn't be driving an S4... its as simple as that. But I do, and its the best thing out there that meets these needs.

As has been said, if you can cope with the thirsty engine and high depreciation, go for it...


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## x4att (May 7, 2002)

The M3 is a far superior car to the S4 in every department. Handling, power, driving position.
The only let down is the interior; even the new RS4 will struggle to be a better car than the M3 (read autocars review). I know we all love Audiâ€™s on here but the S4 vs. the M3 is a no brainer.
Every head to head review by every magazine, motor journalist etc, is in favour of the M3, the S4 just does not give enough feedback and response.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

x4att said:


> The M3 is a far superior car to the S4 in every department. Handling, power, driving position.
> The only let down is the interior; even the new RS4 will struggle to be a better car than the M3 (read autocars review). I know we all love Audi's on here but the S4 vs. the M3 is a no brainer.
> Every head to head review by every magazine, motor journalist etc, is in favour of the M3, the S4 just does not give enough feedback and response.


Untrue. Top Gear lapped them around their test track in a back-to-back test. Sure, they loved the arse-out action of the RWD car, but the Audi was significantly quicker...

If you want something brutal and lary, the M3 is a fine choice. But if you want to get from A-B quicker (not just FEEL quicker) then the S4 wins. And when it gets greasy / wet, it leaves the BMW far behind.


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## vernan (May 27, 2002)

and you don't look like an estate agent.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

vernan said:


> and you don't look like an estate agent.


They mostly drive Minis, anyway... :lol:


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## x4att (May 7, 2002)

Still have to disagree, topgear have the S4 as the same lap time as a 911 turbo, so that rules that out LOL.
Look at the times for the Ring, a much better test of a cars A-B performance.
The M3 is some 10 seconds faster, dont get me wrong the S4 is a fine luxury cruiser, but it is not a sports GT like the M3.
As to the estate agent comments, its not the cars fault if it attracts a certain stereotype, one could say the TT is hair dressers cars, but I have had two and I donâ€™t cut hair for a living ;-)


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## Gworks (Jan 20, 2003)

I've driven the new B7 S4, the E46 M3 and M3 CSL. I can safely say without fail, that IMO, the S4 was a better drive, and more luxurious then the M3. However, the CSL, now thats another story. I would have that car over most cars anyday of the week. Pure class, handling and speed GOD car! Luvin every second I had that car, and wud trade all in for it!!! 8)

Glen.


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## x4att (May 7, 2002)

Still have to disagree, topgear have the S4 as the same lap time as a 911 turbo, so that rules that out LOL.
Look at the times for the Ring, a much better test of a cars A-B performance.
The M3 is some 10 seconds faster, dont get me wrong the S4 is a fine luxury cruiser, but it is not a sports GT like the M3.
As to the estate agent comments, its not the cars fault if it attracts a certain stereotype, one could say the TT is hair dressers cars, but I have had two and I donâ€™t cut hair for a living ;-)


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

jampott said:


> genocidalduck said:
> 
> 
> > A3DFU said:
> ...


That's what i ment earlier in the year, meaning the current year that we are in


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

x4att said:


> Look at the times for the Ring, a much better test of a cars A-B performance.
> The M3 is some 10 seconds faster, dont get me wrong the S4 is a fine luxury cruiser, but it is not a sports GT like the M3.


Agreed.

Now tell me how many drivers could get the lap time in an M3? A lot more could get closer to the S4 time.

The M3 is a more thrilling drive but the S4 is more able in all conditions. If I was happy with a coupe and lived somewhere that was always dry and I was a professional driver then maybe the M3.

Otherwise the S4 will get there faster everytime, in more comfort, with a better interior and with a far superiour sound.

p.s. If it was a no brainer then I wonder why so many people have bought S4s? We must all be idiots. Either that or we have a more open view of whats out there.


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## taffy (Oct 6, 2005)

jampott said:


> x4att said:
> 
> 
> > The M3 is a far superior car to the S4 in every department. Handling, power, driving position.
> ...


Absolute tripe! There is a very good reason why the M3 is regarded as the best drivers car and that is becuasue quite simply nothing comes close. I have had an S4, a TT chipped to 270 and in comparison they are dire to drive, awful damping and totally numb steering. yes, they have great grip but how many actually get to the point where that extra grip shows, i bet not even 1%. S4's are not exclusive and neither are they desirable, the depreciation on them is pityful and they're only made in smaller numbers because quite simply Audi know that they can't compete and would lose millions if they tried. This thread is laughable, how many of you have actually driven an M3 back to back with an S4, if you'd done so you'd be agreeing with me!


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

taffy said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > x4att said:
> ...


I've driven both. I'm happy with my choice - and as I'm chuffed to bits that I can carry 3 passengers and 2 dogs as quickly as M3 drivers can carry 3 passengers...

I also tried the 330d when looking for a fast estate car. Regardless of how the engine performed, the interior was dire. Designed in the early 90's by the look of it, and barely updated since. The only good thing to say was it was bland enough to be able to live with - but overall, the interior of ALL of my last 3 cars (350z included) was a much much nicer prospect than the monstrosity in the BMW.


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## geewceeTT (Aug 7, 2005)

taffy said:


> This thread is laughable, how many of you have actually driven an M3 back to back with an S4, if you'd done so you'd be agreeing with me!


You signed up to this board just to slag the S4?
Every chav/ned in my area drives an M3. That makes the marque less desirable to me. I wouldnt think twice about which to pick if I was offered either the S4 or the M3. And it dont have a beemer badge on it!


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## vernan (May 27, 2002)

It's so nice when someone comes along to tell you what to think. I really appreciate it.

I must sell my S4 immediately and buy an M3, because clearly I've been deluded in the past.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

You gotta love people who are only happy if everyone agrees with their view. :-*


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## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

geewceeTT said:


> taffy said:
> 
> 
> > This thread is laughable, how many of you have actually driven an M3 back to back with an S4, if you'd done so you'd be agreeing with me!
> ...


Interesting, thats the kind of predudice I get from people reference the TT.

Sounds like the M3 would be a good replacement then....

P.S I dont think he is "slagging of the S4" at all, he is just saying the M3 is better, which according to every magazine and road test I have ever read is true. But then again they could all be wrong?


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## GW1970 (Jul 4, 2005)

It's not that the M3 is a bad car ,far from it, that is apart from image/style.
The tag you would 'associate' with a BMW M3 is very different to an Audi. Probably wrong to do that but that how it is...


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

These threads make me laugh.

Was not that long ago that some fcuking muppet on here was preaching on that the M3 was better than an RS6. Of course it is :lol:

Anyhow, the fact of the matter is that no-one can define that one car is any better than another. The M3 has its virtues & the S4 has perhaps different virtues. If i was shelling out Â£35-40K on a car, my money would go to the S4, as i prefer the Audi Marque & for everyday rapid driving i think the S4 is the better all-round car.

If i was more track orientated & could stretch to a CSL, then that would sway me back to a Bimmer.

Each to their own. The M3 is defo not better than the S4, but perhaps the S4 is not better than the M3, just slightly different cars for slightly different purpose.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Exactamundo!!

People choose cars on what's better for them and that's simply all that counts.

How could a M3 be "better" for me when I want 4 doors, a decent interior, a smoother ride, all year round safe use, etc etc etc

If the M3 is better for you then go buy one. <shrug>


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## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

scoTTy said:


> Exactamundo!!
> 
> People choose cars on what's better for them and that's simply all that counts.
> 
> ...


I completley agree, just as a Robin Reliant would be better for a couple of OAPs than a S4.


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## taffy (Oct 6, 2005)

sico said:


> geewceeTT said:
> 
> 
> > taffy said:
> ...


Exactly, some people are awfully touchy! I just find it amazing that you guys can say it's a chav's car,mine cost Â£48,000, how many chavs do you know with that sort of money.

The Audi is a good car but IT IS NOT A DRIVER'S CAR and in comparison to the M3 is not as fast, not as rewarding to drive fast, not as much fun and the ride is crashy rather than sporty, they're famous for their poor fidgety ride, ask any decent journalist and they'll confirm that as being the biggest drawback.

The only reason I posted here was because quite frankly I thought it was amazing that on a TT forum of all places you guys could all slag off M3 driver's as being chav's, common and above all being stereotypical BMW drivers. I drove both the S4 & M3 back to back and even tracked both on the same day and there is no comparison whatsoever, for me the M3 was the only choice as driving pleasure is more important to me than 4 doors and taking the dog for a jaunt.

My wife has an Audi, I have had 3 in my time including an RS6 and no I did not come on here just to have a go, just amazed how biased you guys are when I doubt any of you have any real understanding of what makes a decent drivers car or indeed of M3's.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

I think you're arguing with yourself.

I don't think anyone is claiming the S4 to be more of a drivers car. I don't actually think there's as much biased opinion as you think there is.

"the M3 was the only choice as driving pleasure is more important than 4 doors and taking the dog for a jaunt." 
Great. All you have to do now is realise and appreciate that your key choices in buying a car don't have to be the same for everyone.

You seem to be stuck with the mindset that the car that's the best drivers car, is the "best" car. There's a bit more to choosing a car than that. If there wasn't then we'd all be in Caterham's, Elise's etc etc.

p.s. "Chav" is not simply about money but it's quite funny that you was the one to bring money into it the conversation. :roll: :wink:

p.p.s I agree with Top Gear on their comparison : M3 for one lap of a track. S4 for the rest of the time.


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

taffy said:


> sico said:
> 
> 
> > geewceeTT said:
> ...


 :lol: :lol: Abit of snobbery ...........I actually know alot of Chavs with that sort of money.Chav doesnt mean poor. Also know alot of Chavs that own M3's ( My cousin being one :roll: )

I honestly prefer the S4 having driven both. As its quick but doesnt shout.....Look at me look at me!

Other problem with Chavs is like there fashion sense.....They have no imagination. So when it comes to buying a car they can't see past BMW as its always been a sort after car esp the M3 and it fits there image of being loud and brash. Have to feel sorry for those enthusiasts that buy the car on its merits.


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

I think it's a matter of taste and preference? :? 
M3-S4 I know which car I would (will??) buy


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## vernan (May 27, 2002)

taffy said:


> I doubt any of you have any real understanding of what makes a decent drivers car or indeed of M3's.


Not only








but









And you wonder why BMW drivers have a certain reputation.

Put on your Oakley sunglasses and back to your mock Georgian estate house and ready cooked meals with with you.


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## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

We were debating about which was the better car and then you get "the M3 is a chavs car"

To me this means that you S4 guys have no other arguments and have lowered to calling a car names or associating it with something bad. This would mean you have run out of any reasonable arguments.

Very poor, very poor.......


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

taffy said:


> sico said:
> 
> 
> > geewceeTT said:
> ...


Well PISS OFF then.

You come onto an Audi based Forum & preach that the M3 is a better car than the S4. Who are you to judge?? That's fine if that's your bag, but your point is that you prefer the M3 to the S4 & you're entitled to your opinion. Sprint & top end figures for both cars are not that different & in real world would be exactly the same.

The biggest difference is that most people i know (certainly not all) who drive M3's consider themselves to be driving gods because they drive a semi-fast car (usually a company car), this of course is not the case, but if they want to drive around in a fairly high powered vehicle like they own the road then so be it, but pleeeease don't try to preach that it's a better car, when the only factual point is that you prefer the M3.

Final point is that most (again not all) people on here are fairly rounded when it comes to cars. They've owned other marques & models & are not Audi biased, they also attend a variety of motoring events & track their cars, so i think we're as well placed as you to decide what I/WE consider to be a good drivers car & if your opinion is not the same then that again is perfectly OK.

Ps. How the fcuk did you spec a standard M3 up to Â£48,000??? If it aint a CSL then you've been had or like me enjoy depreciation :lol: :lol:


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## vernan (May 27, 2002)

Sico mate, do you really think that you are going to get an objective comparison of the qualities of cars on an internet forum populated by anoraks and timewasters like you and me, especially when owners and aspirant owners are involved?

Of course a discussion like this is going to degenerate into name calling. Of course truisms picked up from Top Gear or Autocar are going to be quoted and disputed. Of course I'm an expert on M3s because I test drove one when buying the S4. Of course our friend is an expert on S4s because he drove them "back to back".

:?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

sico said:


> We were debating about which was the better car and then you get "the M3 is a chavs car"
> 
> To me this means that you S4 guys have no other arguments and have lowered to calling a car names or associating it with something bad. This would mean you have run out of any reasonable arguments.
> 
> Very poor, very poor.......


I think he meant Chavs/Neds with a few bob or a generous company car scheme :lol: :lol:


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## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

vernan said:


> Sico mate, do you really think that you are going to get an objective comparison of the qualities of cars on an internet forum populated by anoraks and timewasters like you and me, especially when owners and aspirant owners are involved?
> 
> Of course a discussion like this is going to degenerate into name calling. Of course truisms picked up from Top Gear or Autocar are going to be quoted and disputed. Of course I'm an expert on M3s because I test drove one when buying the S4. Of course our friend is an expert on S4s because he drove them "back to back".
> 
> :?


Fair point.

Its a shame that people have even started posting "P*ss off", I guess they dont have many board room meetings.

(pobably get a post now saying "actually im a director of a multi national blah blah)


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

I'm still waiting for someone to show me an M3 which can fit 2 dalmatians in the back, as well as 3 passengers and the driver.

Or an M3 that can take a proper load to the tip, or transport large items of furniture.

Or, as I did last night, PROPERLY help me move a mate from Watford down to the Isle of Dogs. Can you fit a 32" widescreen telly, Ikea desk, office chair, duvet and pillows, Ikea bedside cabinet and table, wardrobe full of clothes and other assorted tat into an M3?

Thought not. So the M3 isn't necessarily "better" is it? 

Anyway, taffy - we're doing Santa Pod in a week's time. Top Gear proved that the S4 is quicker round a track. Fancy a head to head on a drag strip to test your standing 1/4 times against my family estate car? :lol:

Of course we won't have a use for our superior grip, but any old fool can get a BMW to go quickly in a straight line. You up for it? 8)


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## taffy (Oct 6, 2005)

Quite sad that some of you guys feel you need to resort to telling me to "Piss off" and the like, this is a car we're on about and it's quite amusing seeing ou guys get so defensive, quite pathetic in reality.

All I'm saying is that if you want to transport your dog, widescreen tv or need 4 doors then fine, the S4 is the car for the job, but this thread was comparing the S4 to an M3, and in any other area other than practicality it is quite simply not as good, 0-60 and top speeds have nothing to do with it and neither does a straight drag race, the M3 is ALL about the drive whilst the S4 is all about the practicality side of providing a car that can do all things, ultimately that is a compromise on the driving abilities, FACT and that is why the M3 in terms of driving abilities and that is what i'm referring to, is 2nd best, FACT!

And, i yesterday got cut up by some chav in an MTM S3, all brands attract this type when the cars get cheap enough.

Yes, i'd be happy to come to Santa Pod, email me with details


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

sico said:


> vernan said:
> 
> 
> > Sico mate, do you really think that you are going to get an objective comparison of the qualities of cars on an internet forum populated by anoraks and timewasters like you and me, especially when owners and aspirant owners are involved?
> ...


Actually, no i'm not a director of a multi national, just a small self started consultancy that provides a little bit of pocket money, but thanks for your interest :lol: :lol: :lol:

It's not a shame at all. Like many, i'm sick & tired of people spouting on about how car X is better than car Y & even more so when an individual crawls over form another forum to start an arguement. I think they call them trolls. If you see fit to defend such actions then that's perfectly OK, but don't expect everyone to stand by your decision.

I've never trolled over t0 the M3 forums, M5 forums or AMG forums to state how amazing the RS6 is & how it would cane every car that anyone on that forum owns. How childish is that. I will defend my choice over here with valid points, but cars exist that are better & faster than mine for a purpose.

Tim quite rightly pointed out many times on this thread that an M3 would be useless for his car requirements, yet the instigator still sees fit to state that the M3 is better than the S4. I've also agreed that on most tracks an M3 would have the edge over an S4, but i'm fairly sure Audi did not design the S4 to be a track day vehicle & in fact BMW launched the CSL for such a purpose.

At the end of the day it's horses for courses :lol: everyone is entitled to their opinion, however it's a little childish to come over to an Audi board to make & then ram such a point home.

End of story :lol:


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

You guys are all, clearly, off your rockers. My E320 Estate is THE best driver's car with ME being the driver. Any serious journalist would tell you so. If they don't, they are clearly rubbish at their jobs.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

taffy said:


> Quite sad that some of you guys feel you need to resort to telling me to "Piss off" and the like, this is a car we're on about and it's quite amusing seeing ou guys get so defensive, quite pathetic in reality.
> 
> All I'm saying is that if you want to transport your dog, widescreen tv or need 4 doors then fine, the S4 is the car for the job, but this thread was comparing the S4 to an M3, and in any other area other than practicality it is quite simply not as good, 0-60 and top speeds have nothing to do with it and neither does a straight drag race, the M3 is ALL about the drive whilst the S4 is all about the practicality side of providing a car that can do all things, ultimately that is a compromise on the driving abilities, FACT and that is why the M3 in terms of driving abilities and that is what i'm referring to, is 2nd best, FACT!
> 
> ...


My "Piss off" response brought about by boredom. This kinda thing probably happens a couple of times a month & gets very tedious :?

Car choices are personal choices & come about with many factors of which being a drivers car is one (probably not high on most peoples list though) along with budget, performance, security, depreciation :lol: & many others. That then does not give you or anyone the skill to state that one car is any better than another, especially on an Audi board. It comes down to taste as most have agreed with. I like milky sweet coffee, you perhaps prefer yours black. I like white bread, you may prefer wholemeal. Is wholemeal bread better because it's got healthier properties??

My point is simple, you like the M3 over the S4 & others would agree with you, however in all but one or perhaps 2 areas, it can't ever be described as a better car than the S4 & the same logic applies in reverse.

No-one is slagging off the M3, they're are just stating their opinion & perception of the brand, model & owners.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

taffy said:


> Quite sad that some of you guys feel you need to resort to telling me to "Piss off" and the like, this is a car we're on about and it's quite amusing seeing ou guys get so defensive, quite pathetic in reality.
> 
> All I'm saying is that if you want to transport your dog, widescreen tv or need 4 doors then fine, the S4 is the car for the job, but this thread was comparing the S4 to an M3, and in any other area other than practicality it is quite simply not as good, 0-60 and top speeds have nothing to do with it and neither does a straight drag race, the M3 is ALL about the drive whilst the S4 is all about the practicality side of providing a car that can do all things, ultimately that is a compromise on the driving abilities, FACT and that is why the M3 in terms of driving abilities and that is what i'm referring to, is 2nd best, FACT!
> 
> ...


But the M3 isn't even CLOSE to the likes of an Elise, Exige, Caterham or other go-kart for balls-out track fun - so comparing the merits of what you consider the M3 does best is rather pointless. The M3 is a compromise for other reasons, just as the S4 is.

EVERY car is a compromise. The Elise, Exige, Caterham etc are ropey motorway cars, and offer bugger-all in the way of practicality.

Which is why you can't tell me your car is "better" than mine. You can tell me its a better driver's car, if you REALLY want to play automotive top trumps, but mine offers anywhere between 95% and 105% of your speed and pace (depending who you listen to), 200% of your image IMHO (which some people class as important) so I can live what you consider to be a poorer "drive" from the S4.

When I lived in Cardiff, Charlotte Church's ex boyfriend regularly used to try and race anything on the road in his mustard coloured M3 ragtop. He looked like (and was) a complete bell-end. I've never seen anyone remotely approaching those depths of awfulness driving an S4 (with the exception of some of the Kneesworth crew :lol: ) and its fair to say the M3 does get tarred with that image.

Anyway, my car is the most gorgeous shade of blue, and sometimes that's all that matters to me, ergo it must be better than yours. QED.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

PS all the details for the Santa Pod meet are in the Events section...


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

Oh, and I forgot to mention, my Dad can have your Dad anytime. Name the time and place. :lol:


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## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

:? Am I reading this right - I think someone may have slipped up? :wink:


taffy said:


> ...... and that is why the M3 in terms of driving abilities and that is what i'm referring to, is 2nd best, FACT!.......


BTW - As a bit of an outsider (there's no way I could even think about affording either of these cars unless very old versions), I would be very happy if someone gave me either of them :wink:

I've driven both an S4 (thanks to JampoTT - I will try harder next time :lol: ) and an (old) M3 - both obviously have _oodles_ of power. The M3 I drove in the wet and I can honestly say I am nowhere near a good enough driver to have exploited even half of it's full potential. The surefooted S4 on the other hand............well, who knows :wink:

On a track I've no doubt the an M3 driver would have a more exhilarating experience (I wouldn't know, I've never tried).....but, in the real world on real roads with real speed limits, who _really_ cares about a fraction of a second quicker (or not) on the road apart from spouting "my c*ck's bigger than yours" on internet forums or down the pub:?


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## s3_lurker (May 6, 2002)

"BTW - As a bit of an outsider (there's no way I could even think about affording either of these cars unless very old versions)"]

No THAT old for Â£26K!!

http://www.fontain.co.uk/vehicle-details.asp?ID=55577


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

BreTT said:


> Oh, and I forgot to mention, my Dad can have your Dad anytime. Name the time and place. :lol:


No he can't, so feck off :lol: :lol: :wink:


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

I sure this is a very important and emotive subject to some people on this thread, but for goodness sake, we are talking about two vehicles that the majority of the time, will be stuck in a traffic jam, going nowhere fast.

It is about personal opinion and YOUR requirements of a vehicle. "Serious journalists" are paid to write articles, that is their job. Their text is THEIR OPINION of a vehicle and human nature dictates that if they agree with YOUR OPINION of a vehicle, you will side with them. Otherwise, they don't know what they are talking about.

Some of you clearly think M3's are the bee's knees. Good for you. Others think the S4 is the better car, whoo hoo. My personal OPINION for what it is worth, is that I'd take an E55 estate before either of these cars everytime. Guess what, I like Mercs and anyone else that does is ok by me. The rest of you can just "piss off" :wink:


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## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

s3_lurker said:


> "BTW - As a bit of an outsider (there's no way I could even think about affording either of these cars unless very old versions)"]
> 
> No THAT old for Â£26K!!
> 
> http://www.fontain.co.uk/vehicle-details.asp?ID=55577


Nope - Still Waaaaay out of my league


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

BreTT said:


> I sure this is a very important and emotive subject to some people on this thread, but for goodness sake, we are talking about two vehicles that the majority of the time, will be stuck in a traffic jam, going nowhere fast.
> 
> It is about personal opinion and YOUR requirements of a vehicle. "Serious journalists" are paid to write articles, that is their job. Their text is THEIR OPINION of a vehicle and human nature dictates that if they agree with YOUR OPINION of a vehicle, you will side with them. Otherwise, they don't know what they are talking about.
> 
> Some of you clearly think M3's are the bee's knees. Good for you. Others think the S4 is the better car, whoo hoo. My personal OPINION for what it is worth, is that I'd take an E55 estate before either of these cars everytime. Guess what, I like Mercs and anyone else that does is ok by me. The rest of you can just "piss off" :wink:


No he can't, so feck off :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

P.S. I can't wait for the "My girlfriend/wife/significant other is better than your girlfriend/wife/significant other" thread. I'll be especially interested in the test drive section. :roll:


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## GW1970 (Jul 4, 2005)

BreTT said:


> Some of you clearly think M3's are the bee's knees. Good for you. Others think the S4 is the better car, whoo hoo. My personal OPINION for what it is worth, is that I'd take an E55 estate before either of these cars everytime. Guess what, I like Mercs and anyone else that does is ok by me. The rest of you can just "piss off" :wink:


Mercs... , most I see in salubrious Surrey have their pointy star thingy on the bonnet twisted off!!


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

GW1970 said:


> BreTT said:
> 
> 
> > Some of you clearly think M3's are the bee's knees. Good for you. Others think the S4 is the better car, whoo hoo. My personal OPINION for what it is worth, is that I'd take an E55 estate before either of these cars everytime. Guess what, I like Mercs and anyone else that does is ok by me. The rest of you can just "piss off" :wink:
> ...


Disgruntled owners trying to hide their marque... :lol:


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

jampott said:


> GW1970 said:
> 
> 
> > BreTT said:
> ...


Surrey - the new Essex.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

BreTT said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > GW1970 said:
> ...


You ain't nobody if you don't live in Herts! :roll:


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## taffy (Oct 6, 2005)

> Actually, no i'm not a director of a multi national, just a small self started consultancy that provides a little bit of pocket money, but thanks for your interest :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> It's not a shame at all. Like many, i'm sick & tired of people spouting on about how car X is better than car Y & even more so when an individual crawls over form another forum to start an arguement. I think they call them trolls. If you see fit to defend such actions then that's perfectly OK, but don't expect everyone to stand by your decision.
> 
> ...


Firstly, i haven't been trolling, i've been here for a while whilst considering a replacement for the wife and secondly, i only posted because of the comments over M3 drivers being chav's, footballers,n being common as muck etc etc...what a f***ing pathetic comment to make because you decide to drive a car that is not an AUDI, i am entitled to my opinions as you guys are and I will express them when w***ers like that make idiotic, uninformed comments in a serious thread. Leave it at that

*[Moderator edit]
You're acting like a troll and now you're breaching rules by swearing. If you're not willing to post constructively and within the rules then it won't be tolerated.

Scotty

[/Moderator edit]*


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

> i've been here for a while whilst considering a replacement for the wife


Does the wife know you are looking to replace her? :-*

Have you tried counselling or marriage guidance first? :lol:


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

jampott said:


> > i've been here for a while whilst considering a replacement for the wife
> 
> 
> Does the wife know you are looking to replace her? :-*
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Something for your dogs tim with the coming winter months










Must just be here in sunny Essex that M3's are driven by mainly Chav's.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

taffy said:


> Actually, no i'm not a director of a multi national, just a small self started consultancy that provides a little bit of pocket money, but thanks for your interest :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> It's not a shame at all. Like many, i'm sick & tired of people spouting on about how car X is better than car Y & even more so when an individual crawls over form another forum to start an arguement. I think they call them trolls. If you see fit to defend such actions then that's perfectly OK, but don't expect everyone to stand by your decision.
> 
> ...


Firstly, i haven't been trolling, i've been here for a while whilst considering a replacement for the wife and secondly, i only posted because of the comments over M3 drivers being chav's, footballers,n being common as muck etc etc...what a f***ing pathetic comment to make because you decide to drive a car that is not an AUDI, i am entitled to my opinions as you guys are and I will express them when w***ers like that make idiotic, uninformed comments in a serious thread. Leave it at that[/quote]

You obviously see fit to carry this debate on so my final points will be these. M3's are common as muck when compared to S4's that's a hard & fast fact. Secondly, i did not call them chav wagons, only made a point after someone else called them vehicles for chavs that any chavs that do own an M3 must have a few quid or a good company car policy & lastly you are totally entitled to your opinion as is everyone else on here. Perhaps it was not what you meant that caused the retaliation, but more the manner in which you posted, that & it being obvious you had not posted on this forum before, thus justifying the possible troll comment.

At the foot of my last post, i stated that everyone is entitled to their opinion, its just that many don't like it rammed down their throat. You were not the only one doing this to be fair.

Matter i guess can now be closed.


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## GW1970 (Jul 4, 2005)

Doesn't a lot of this argument come down to image - rather than actual stats on the two cars. IMO the M3 is the car a chav would aspire to, which I don't think you could say about an Audi.


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## geewceeTT (Aug 7, 2005)

taffy said:


> ... i am entitled to my opinions as you guys are and I will express them when w***ers like that make idiotic, uninformed comments in a serious thread. Leave it at that


Its a chavs car mate - deal with it.


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## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

Do a google on "Audi TT Chavs"

think you guys should be quite! :lol:

I love my TT but people are always saying "Hair dressers car" etc etc

So I wouldnt make remarks about any other cars in this way. Stick to solid arguments not name calling.

Any car that stands out will have some assocaition! and anyone that does not will be called a "reps car".


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

sico said:


> Do a google on "Audi TT Chavs"
> 
> think you guys should be quite! :lol:


Should be quite what? Quiet pleased? Quite unhappy? Quite quiet? :wink:


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## Camsan (Oct 6, 2005)

Im sorry to be a "troll" and butt into to this discussion. But I would like to voice my opinion and being as I have owned (S4 B6) and do own (E46 M3 Cab) these cars so I think I may be a little bit more qualified to throw my"Burberry" Handbag around.

Anyway all said BOTH cars are outstanding for very different reasons

M3 for Performance. Occasion (I get alot more attention from the opposite sex with the M3), dry weather handling and grip, Wet weather thrills, :wink: the "evil" noise AND (this may upset a few) the Interior cabin space which is much better (unbelievably).

S4 for Sheer bloody linear Grunt and performance, The Heavenly V8 rumble, Wet weather handling (and faith in the handling), The ability to be able to leave the house when there are " Icy patches ", The Recaro's, The Quality of materials, and one of the Ultimate Q cars ever IMHO.

There are more reasons still for both but u could keep picking tit 4 tat all day.

The reason I changed my S4 to a M3 cab was the fact that my S4 spent most of its time in my local Dealership for small minor faults waiting about for back order parts. The service from AUDI CS and the dealership didnt help either. The M3 came about because of the glorious weather we had over this summer and to be honest can anyone think of a better 40k 4 seater cab for the money? (please dont say the S4 it's not a Drivers car its a Cruiser.)

The fact is you cannot compare either of these cars in reality unless you compare the 2 like for like cabs and unfortunately to my dismay the M3 is IMHO the better of the 2.

I mean be serious how can you compare a coupe to an estate really? as I think was mentioned before Its horses for courses. And if your lucky enough to own either or both of these vehicles then just enjoy your own choice and please respect others. I mean face it, it could be worse u could all be driving Jap Crap!!!

oh by the way im not a Drug dealer, Chav etc etc I just appreciate nice cars.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Camsan said:


> Im sorry to be a "troll" and butt into to this discussion. But I would like to voice my opinion and being as I have owned (S4 B6) and do own (E46 M3 Cab) these cars so I think I may be a little bit more qualified to throw my"Burberry" Handbag around.
> 
> Anyway all said BOTH cars are outstanding for very different reasons
> 
> ...


Good 1st post & agreed.

Might actually agree with you in all but interior space. Can't see how an M3 Coupe can be viewed as having more interior space than an S4 Saloon or Avant. Do agree on the Cab as well. If it was for me, i'd take an M3 cab over an S4 cab (just), but would take an S4 Saloon over an M3 Coupe. Now for the missus (family) i'd take the S4 cab as having lived with one for a few days, i feel it's a better/safer prospect to carry my family around for some open top motoring.


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## L7 (Aug 27, 2004)

Now is anyone going to help stenning make his mind up whether to buy one or not :roll: I think he may be [smiley=zzz.gif]


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## Camsan (Oct 6, 2005)

I agree totally about an S4 saloon over M3 coupe I have to that was the Choice I made. But I was sorely tempted to try and buy my brothers old CSL i just couldnt live with the spine breaking arse numbing seats over long distance which I do most weeks.

Anyway as to the original post TT to S4!!

GO FOR IT!!

The S4 for me was a truly outstanding car (more than can be said for my dealer service and Audi CS) and I DO miss mine and sometimes wonder especially as winter is coming should I have?? Im sure its a thought I will always have.

Too me it seems like a Natural Progression from a TT to an S4 there really isnt anything totally outstanding in between them. The S3 is not available nearly new and its too similar to the TT anyway so unless u want a more "sensible" Audi the S4 IS the way to go.

And (sorry to keep rattling on) take advantage of the monster depriciation its one hell of a motor for not that much money.


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Camsan said:


> Im sorry to be a "troll" and butt into to this discussion. But I would like to voice my opinion and being as I have owned (S4 B6) and do own (E46 M3 Cab) these cars so I think I may be a little bit more qualified to throw my"Burberry" Handbag around.
> 
> Anyway all said BOTH cars are outstanding for very different reasons
> 
> ...


Fair comment on all accounts me thinks


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

*Moderator hat on*
Please can we get/keep this thread back on topic and refrain from swearing.

Failure to do so will result in the thread being locked and/or further action.

I have no intention of going through the thread again to edit swearing out because people can't read the rules. :x


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## taffy (Oct 6, 2005)

Apologies guys, didn't mean to preach, just kind of amazed at some of the comments flying about and felt the need to express my opinion somewhat!

Best put my burberry cap back on get back to the mock tudor, i have a big game in Billericay tomorrow! :lol:


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## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

taffy said:


> Apologies guys, didn't mean to preach, just kind of amazed at some of the comments flying about and felt the need to express my opinion somewhat!
> 
> Best put my burberry cap back on get back to the mock tudor, i have a big game in Billericay tomorrow! :lol:


Good on you - if nothing else, to acknowledge that there are other opinions out there. No one will bother about you preaching your opinion PROVIDED you keep your mind open. I'm sure they will too.


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## ScottishAMM (Apr 4, 2005)

From his username can I assume that "Taffy" is Welsh.
Oh dear, a welsh chav, who has now admitted to living in Billericay and drives an M3. You really must be the height of style and elegance and I truly belive that you shouldn't feel bad. All of us here are really pleased for you especially the fact that you paid the same money (a big boast of wealth by yourself) for your "Von Dutch" mobile when you could have had a proper sportscar. You have completely embarassed yourself going on about price and how the M3 is a true performance car when we all know its really a 330D sport with a few more chavvy sideskirts on it. 
Oh and P.S. if you've just signed on here to peddle drugs then we're not interested either - even the dealers in Scotland have more taste than to drive an M3.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

ScottishAMM said:


> From his username can I assume that "Taffy" is Welsh.
> Oh dear, a welsh chav, who has now admitted to living in Billericay and drives an M3. You really must be the height of style and elegance and I truly belive that you shouldn't feel bad. All of us here are really pleased for you especially the fact that you paid the same money (a big boast of wealth by yourself) for your "Von Dutch" mobile when you could have had a proper sportscar. You have completely embarassed yourself going on about price and how the M3 is a true performance car when we all know its really a 330D sport with a few more chavvy sideskirts on it.
> Oh and P.S. if you've just signed on here to peddle drugs then we're not interested either - even the dealers in Scotland have more taste than to drive an M3.


That's a bit harsh isn't it? :?


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## ScottishAMM (Apr 4, 2005)

Maybe a bit harsh but who does he think he is? First impressions and all that - let's face it the boy didn't do himself any favours.


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

ScottishAMM said:


> Maybe a bit harsh but who does he think he is? First impressions and all that - let's face it the boy didn't do himself any favours.


Maybe you'd like to re-read the rules on personal attacks? I'd say implying that someone is a drug dealer would count as a breach.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

ScottishAMM said:


> Maybe a bit harsh but who does he think he is? First impressions and all that - let's face it the boy didn't do himself any favours.


It doesn't really matter who he thinks he is. He already apologised...


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## ScottishAMM (Apr 4, 2005)

I only said "if" and was stated tongue in cheek. My apologies if you though that I had seriously stated he sold drugs (which I didn't). Maybe you should have a look at some of the other favourable posts towards Mr Taffy.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jampott said:


> vernan said:
> 
> 
> > and you don't look like an estate agent.
> ...


agree. you look like a hotelier instead. :wink:


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## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

I cant beleive some of the comments that are posted on this site recently.

Im embarassed to own an Audi with other owners posting these kind of racist non diverse comments.

If any outsiders read this post and did asscoaite the comments with image of the make then im sure they would be buying a BMW.

By slating BMWs and making these kind of comments its clear that SOME owners are contridicting themselves.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jampott said:


> I'm still waiting for someone to show me an M3 which can fit 2 dalmatians in the back, as well as 3 passengers and the driver.


Oh, I could fit two dalmations in the boot of an M3. No problem. :twisted:

As another who has run both BMWs and Audis over the last few years (OK mki S4 and RS4 - but I am currently in market for new A4 avant class and have driven many) - the A4 avant is not exactly renowned for rear passenger space. Less rear leg and underseat foot room than a 3 series coupe or saloon or touring (all have same wheelbase) as I recall from the ones I have run...so 4 people in an A4 are really not as comfy than 4 in an e46 - any variant, coupe included. That's in my experience.

Luggage space? again the A4 (nor 3 series) are not exactly load luggers.

But, hey if you want space, get a Volvo. Or hire a white van if you wanna move or go to the dump.

What we really want is the balance, dynamics and driving poistion of the 3 series, but with Audi build, and interior design.

Faster on road or track? Ha. Ha. both are very quick (truly fast in the right hands). One is nicer to drive at the edge of its considerable capabilities than the other. I doubt many owners of either could get near the testers/racers lap times.

4 wheel drive and a V8 (vs a 6 pot rwd screamer)? OK, but with that weighty V8 lump out ahead, it feels like one is driving a 911 in reverse at high speed and wants to understeer everywhere and lean on its front tyres when really going for it. It's weight distribution is always going to be it's achillies heel. Never so the M3.

Id say M3 for driving and if you like dealer service quality, S4 for the overall ownership (excluding Audi dealer service quality).

'Exclusivity'? Image? Chav, drug dealer, rep, doctor, child molester, Mr Sophisticated? Hotelier? Estate Agent? IT contractor? You are all having a laugh. Who gives a t*ss? These are volume cars. Brand image? That can be what you want it to be. It's all about perception, which is highly personal and subjective.

We are lucky to have the choice. 'Better' is alway going to be the car that one chose


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

garyc said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > I'm still waiting for someone to show me an M3 which can fit 2 dalmatians in the back, as well as 3 passengers and the driver.
> ...


Yeah that's probably quite true.

I was trying to explain to a mate the other day that "No, I won't beat you into Central London by several hours, just cos I'm driving an S4..."

At the end of the day, my terminal speed on the UK roads is generally around 85mph. I'll get up to it a bit quicker than your average car, but in the real world, this will save me perhaps 3 or 4 seconds on an otherwise uninterrupted 100 mile motorway cruise. Hardly ground breaking, and certainly not worth the Â£xk premium in itself! 

I was also trying to explain that 370~bhp in my S4 isn't a HUGE amount of difference to (say) 270bhp in a TT. The cars are similar weight, and although my power to weight is greater, I'll still have to work quite hard to show any difference on the road. Sure I can pull away from a mapped TT, but I still have the potential to be caught napping, found in the wrong gear or otherwise "embarrassed" by the lower powered car, because the real world difference SOUNDS a lot, but actually isn't. If I only drive my car at 80%, and don't wring its neck, I've got the equivalent of "less than 300bhp" but in a heavier car.

Sometimes my saving grace is the fact that I've got such a broad torque band. I can afford that fraction of a second late onto the throttle because I'll gain it by not having to change gear more than twice up to that 85mph, at which point I can go from 3rd to 6th and decide whether or not I've "won"... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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