# What oil for TT-RS



## TTRS Taff (Jun 10, 2009)

Whats the best oil to use for the TT-RS and how often should you check? I have just done 500 miles, so i guess now would be a good time to check?


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## Gordon B (Apr 12, 2008)

There should be a free oil pouch in the boot. That should be enough to begin with.


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## egi (Feb 23, 2009)

Hi, there are basically 2 VW approved oil ratings for the TT, this is to say, VW 502.00 and VW 504.00
*502.00* approved engine oils are there for yearly service intervals.
*504.00* on the other hand, are much better/expensive VW approved engine oils that allows you to have longer service intervals (30,000km or 2 years).

It's up to you to decide.

These are some VW 504.00 approved engine oils: http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-749-vw-50400-oil.aspx
This is the link to VW oil specs: http://www.my-gti.com/7/volkswagen-oils-50400-and-50700

Now the brake fluid's another story but be sure to get *VW 501.14* approved. There are only a few in the market that has this approval because of their low viscosity nature. These are Pentosin LV, and ATE Sl6. (Low viscosity to make full use of ABS and ESP especially in cold climates)


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## eightfoot (Dec 24, 2007)

egi said:


> Hi, there are basically 2 VW approved oil ratings for the TT, this is to say, VW 502.00 and VW 504.00
> *502.00* approved engine oils are there for yearly service intervals.
> *504.00* on the other hand, are much better/expensive VW approved engine oils that allows you to have longer service intervals (30,000km or 2 years).
> 
> ...


think you will find its 504.00 or 507.00 for the tt,could be wrong though,phone the supplying dealer and get a freebee.


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## egi (Feb 23, 2009)

eightfoot said:


> think you will find its 504.00 or 507.00 for the tt,could be wrong though,phone the supplying dealer and get a freebee.


It says in my manual that it's either 502.00 or 504.00 for petrol engines

507.00 is for diesel engines according to this link: http://www.my-gti.com/7/volkswagen-oils-50400-and-50700

Either way, i think the best would be to go for 504.00 which is top of the range and fully synthetic. Our TTs deserve the best oils out there.

To the OP, kindly check your TT-RS Manual just to confirm.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, Audi TT 225 BHP & above should use a spec of 503.01 or later spec 504/507 whether on Fixed or Variable service 
regime. 502 spec should only be used on lower BHP TT..
Not sure about oil for TT RS but Audi RS4 uses 504/507 5w-30 spec so would think should be O.K. for TT RS. 
Check TT RS manual to be sure..
H.


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## Senator (Mar 4, 2009)

Without doubt......Mobil 1 0W-40. ...just make sure you are sitting down when told the price.


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## Alva8193 (Dec 12, 2008)

I use Motul 300v 5w40 its the same oil APR uses on their KONI challenge cars which are beat on like crazy, but just like Larry said make sure your seated when they hand you the bill


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Senator said:


> Without doubt......Mobil 1 0W-40. ...just make sure you are sitting down when told the price.


Hi, In UK Mobil 1 0w-40 is the wrong spec for TT 225 & above... 502/505 is for TT below 225BHP. ie. 150/160. 180/190 BHP.
May not do any harm, but this is what Audi state..
H.


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## TTLeeMk2 (Oct 4, 2006)

I wonder how long the Audi "Long Life" Oil lasts for the TT-RS!


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## Senator (Mar 4, 2009)

Harold said:


> Senator said:
> 
> 
> > Without doubt......Mobil 1 0W-40. ...just make sure you are sitting down when told the price.
> ...


Harold, below is the current Audi bulletin for TT/TTS fluids...worldwide.


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## Senator (Mar 4, 2009)

Alva8193 said:


> I use Motul 300v 5w40 its the same oil APR uses on their KONI challenge cars which are beat on like crazy, but just like Larry said make sure your seated when they hand you the bill


Is that a new spec Alva?....it's not on the current approved list.

Anyone who wants a copy of TSB 17-06-27 Approved Oils......PM me.


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## fuscobal (Jul 19, 2009)

I'm using Motul 300V 5W30 and 40 also but while it's a VW approved oil, it also says on the bottle something like "for highly modified engines, short and long races" !


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## Senator (Mar 4, 2009)

fuscobal said:


> I'm using Motul 300V 5W30 and 40 also but while it's a VW approved oil, it also says on the bottle something like "for highly modified engines, short and long races" !


It's not on the list fuscobal...does it go by anyother Motul name?
PM your email addy and I'll send the TSB pdf


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Did you not get a small 1ltr bottle of oil in a pouch when you picked up the car?
If not, you should poke your dealer to get you one.

I don't recall what brand or the spec i got, but it was silver with a gold top from memory.
Will take a look saturday when i get home if needed.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi Senator, Can't read your scanned in oil list. Can you get it any clearer.
H.


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## Senator (Mar 4, 2009)

Harold said:


> Hi Senator, Can't read your scanned in oil list. Can you get it any clearer.
> H.


Wasn't scanned mate...all digital..if you are serious I would look at your browser installation...in the meantime PM me with your email and i'll send the TSB to you


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## fuscobal (Jul 19, 2009)

It would be this one >

http://www.dbcperformance.com/v/vspfile ... 5521-2.jpg


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## Senator (Mar 4, 2009)

fuscobal said:


> It would be this one >
> 
> http://www.dbcperformance.com/v/vspfile ... 5521-2.jpg


I think that explains it...for legal reasons they don't sanction racing oils per se.


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## Senator (Mar 4, 2009)

Harold said:


> Hi Senator, Can't read your scanned in oil list. Can you get it any clearer.
> H.


 Harold, email sent and....figured it out. Click on the table and you will get a full resolution window.


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## Teutonic_Tamer (Sep 25, 2007)

Senator said:


> Harold said:
> 
> 
> > Senator said:
> ...


NOPE - that is NOT a 'worldwide' spec - it is ONLY for North American Markets. :roll:

You do NOT want to be using 502.00 oils in a TTRS, or indeed in any modern Audi with FSI direct injection. The ONLY oil spec you should be using (anywhere in the world apart from North America) is 504.00.

Furthermore, you do NOT want to be using Mobil oils - because despite what they state on their bottle labels, they are NOT fully synthetic!


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

When I got my car.....The first thing i did was a 280 km/h run and then changed the original oil...

Tested Castrol 10w-60 TWS Motorsports for Castrol here in .dk and the oil temp never came above 118C when 32C ambient temp.

Second time tested the Mobil1 5w-50 and it said 119C but only at 22C ambient temp.

Generally speaking, should the oil temp never go above 120C. If you want to have the engine last for long and all the bearings intact, you should use either of these two...Mobil1 can be used all year round, but Castrol is a lot better in the summer, when above 5 degrees ambient.

I wouldnt use any of the recommended oils, because of the heat in the turbocharger and therefore a lot more wear on the bearings in the turbo and in the engine.


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## sTTranger (Oct 21, 2008)

my engine temp ha never gone above 102


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Either you have a big oilcooler or you never have pushed your car. Engineoil on the TT-RS std. is around 102-104C...



sTTranger said:


> my engine temp ha never gone above 102


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

mine runs at 99 to 100 normal driving.

goes to 104 on a quick blat.


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Keep pushing for 8 mins.....or a 20 km country dash through the moors.....


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

I got a bottle of Castrol from Audi and on a recent trackday temp was 113 MAX, outside temp was 22.


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Are you up for a day at the Nordschleife? To see waht the car is capable of??



996cab said:


> I got a bottle of Castrol from Audi and on a recent trackday temp was 113 MAX, outside temp was 22.


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

Mule said:


> Are you up for a day at the Nordschleife? To see waht the car is capable of??


I could do though that is likely to be in October if I do. I really have to get brakes issues resolved and a map on the car first. Potentially we are looking at Sat 23rd or 30th October...how is your diary for those dates?


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Nothing in the book so far 



996cab said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> > Are you up for a day at the Nordschleife? To see waht the car is capable of??
> ...


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## Teutonic_Tamer (Sep 25, 2007)

Mule said:


> When I got my car.....The first thing i did was a 280 km/h run and then changed the original oil...
> 
> Tested Castrol 10w-60 TWS Motorsports for Castrol here in .dk and the oil temp never came above 118C when 32C ambient temp.
> 
> Second time tested the Mobil1 5w-50 and it said 119C but only at 22C ambient temp.


And . . . . .

Those temperatures are very conservative.

And both those oils are categorically NOT designed nor approved for modern direct injection engines, let alone have any official VW approvals (relevent to the TTRS)!



Mule said:


> Generally speaking, should the oil temp never go above 120C.


That is a very 'uneduacted' statement! Sure, old skool mineral oils wont take to kindly to those kinds of temperatures - but modern quality fully synthetics, particularly those using Group 5 ester base stocks, can massively tollerate much higher temperatures. Indeed, for the ACEA A3 approvals (which form the starting point for VW offical oil standards), they use the HTHS rating, which basically guarantees the oil remains stable at constant temperatures of 150 deg C



Mule said:


> If you want to have the engine last for long and all the bearings intact, you should use either of these two...Mobil1 can be used all year round, but Castrol is a lot better in the summer, when above 5 degrees ambient.


Sorry, but again that is just pure old skool thinking!

Or do you have access to considerably better R&D facilities than those of the worlds third largest car maker. Mobil1 is categorically NOT the 'best' oil for a TTRS, nor indeed any Volkswagen Group car!



Mule said:


> I wouldnt use any of the recommended oils, because of the heat in the turbocharger and therefore a lot more wear on the bearings in the turbo and in the engine.


Again, another old skool biased comment. 'Recommended' oils are the ONLY oils which have been categorically PROVEN to be more than suitable in the TTRS.

If you were to use either of the two oils you state, then you would VOID your warranty . . .


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Nice. You criticise....you say I'm wrong. But you dont give alternatives....

I dont care if they are NOT VW approved. It is NOTHING else than money that makes something approved.

I know what works....and keeps working. Who would benefit from a 5w-30 engine oil giving away after 2 years and your engine is dead?

Yeees you guessed it. The manufacturer. 

What oils do you the specificially recommend then??


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Let me tease you a little bit.....

5w-30 from BP(Castrol)
http://datasheets.bp.com/bpglis/lsdsukf ... 493055.pdf
Viscosity 40C: 69,14 mm2/s 
Viscosity 100C: 11,9 mm2/s

10w-60 From BP(Castrol)
http://datasheets.bp.com/bpglis/lsdsukf ... 10W-60.pdf
Viscosity 40C: 161mm2/s
Viscosity 100C: 24,2 mm2/s

Notice at normal driving, the 5w-30 is below half of the 10w-60 viscosity. In short, it means that the thinner oil wants to run away....while the 10w-60 wants to stay where its needed....Also remember that the turbo, which the engineoil lubricates, is a 1000C hot..........Which oil would you recommend now? Viscosity is a measure of the resistance of a fluid which is being deformed by either shear stress or tensile stress. The higher the Viscosity, the less deformation due to stress. Bare in mind that your car is bumped around all the time....so its vital that your bearings and other moving parts stay away from each other.

So basically, if you are fond of your car....go buy a 5w-40 at least....less is ruining your engine and turbo.

And one of the most important arguments....a lot of bullshit from a salesguy when saying the thinner oil the better. "It lubricates almost instantly in cold weather..." Almost is the keyword here.... Compared to the thicker oils that stay there and dont run of, it lubricates instantly...because its already there. It is not so thin that it runs of key components and needs to be applied once more.


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Lets start with the way that Ferrari tell you what weight of oil should be used, their manual lets you know the "target pressure" @ a given RPM. This is very clever as it takes into account all conditions that their different owners will operate their engines in whilst ensuring that the correct viscosity is in use (eg. people who only take the cars out for leisurely drives through to people who just use the cars on race day).

This can be achieved because of the following relationship: Pressure = viscosity x flow.

Eg. Golden Rule is 10 psi = 10 cst x 1 lpm (per 1000rpm)

As we know the desired Pressure (75psi @ 6000rpm) and the flow is constant due to the positive displacement nature of the oil pump (say 6lpm), the only variable is the viscosity of the oil.

So the viscosity that is required by Ferrari can be calculated as follows: V = 75 / 6 = 12.5 cst. Bear in mind that the desired pressure should be at "normal operating temperature" which could be in the middle of winter on a leisurely drive or on a hot day at the track.

Both of these situations will require different grades of oil to reach the desired pressure because Viscosity of any grade of oil varies with temperature which = ambient air temperature + load (how hard the motor is working). Ferrari are betting that if the oil meets their criteria, it should hopefully be able to protect the hotter parts of the engine as well.

Now before anyone says "outside temperature has nothing to do with it", with a high engine load condition even at a modest 30ºC, the water temperature gauge will show no change but the engine oil can quickly exceed 150ºC. When the ambient temperature exceeds 40ºC, a similar situation can occur even during normal driving conditions."

They prove that there is a direct correlation between ambient air temperature and the average oil temperature measured in the oil pan eg. normal load on a 20c day with an oil pan temp of 110c will go to 128c (roughly) on a 40c day under the same conditions. This is due to the water temperature being kept stable by the thermostat but the oil temperature is left to vary based on the combination of ambient temperature + load.

So what would an ideal oil have to do:

Cold startup at ambient temp - allow the motor to crank over at its rated rpm at the ambient temperature and be thin enough to provide lubrication to the engine once in the oil galleries (should take 2-4 seconds and you should be able to hear the difference in engine noise).

Normal operating temp (will be different for touring compared to towing / sand driving etc) - provide the thickness required to meet the motors oil target pressure through the rpm range at a given ambient air temperature and load. Nissans minimum target pressure is roughly 28psi per 1000rpm for the 3ltr.

Protect the crankshaft bearings at the 'Normal operating temp" - the crankshaft bearing temps are a lot higher than the average oil pan temp - typically around the 125-175c range. The bearings are lubricated by hydrodynamic lubrication which requires a certain oil thickness to overcome the microscopic valleys of the crankshaft and the bearing surface. This thickness needs to be apparent at oil bearing temps (say average 150c). 
*One study that I read on police cars that were having bearing failures using a 10W30 oil after being in service for a while concluded that under "chase" conditions, although the oil was performing above its weight (3.2cst against 2.9cst @ 150c which is standard for that grade of oil) it was not sufficient to prevent failure of the bearing. A similar oil that had better High Shear High Temp specifications was tested for a similar time frame. This oil recorded a thickness of 3.8cst @ 150c (after similar use), the bearings did not exhibit failure or excessive wear with the better High Shear High Temp rating. This shows that even .6 of a cst @ 150c can have dramatic consequences to the bearings.*
*Protect the piston rings and the cylinder walls at the 'Normal operating temp" - the temperature here is even greater (170-300c) and a similar lubrication method is used (hydrodynamic). Although only a minimal oil thickness is required, if it is too thin the lubrication film is broken and rapid wear occurs.*

*Hot startup - be thick enough to leave a small layer of oil covering the valleys of the cylinder wall and piston ring. If the oil you are using is too thin to provide adequate lubrication under heat soak conditions, the starter motor will have a hard time turning the engine over. An Amp metre or a low rpm meter would be able to pick this up - it could also be very obvious without them.
I have read some 10W30 oils used in hot environments have not been able to provide this lubrication layer so again, beware.*

Summary: As you can appreciate, selecting the right oil for all conditions is not possible. Ideally you could select a 0W60 oil to cover all bases but you would probably find that the 0W was not needed for where you live (although great to have if you want to spend the cash) and that the 60 rating provided too much pressure compared to the "target pressure" required for your engine.

Again, this is fine as long as the target pressure is not exceeded but this is hard to achieve if you have chosen the oil for its properties when towing in summer and you are going for a lazy drive. Note that you will still get the same "flow" of oil per 1000rpm until the pressure has reached the oil pumps relief point which could be at 3000rpm instead of 4000rpm with the correct oil for the lazy drive.

To sum it up, monitor the oilpressure and see if it degrades under heavy use. If it doesnt, your oil could be good enough. Does it drop, the oil is to thin.....and the pressure drops in the pump.


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## sTTranger (Oct 21, 2008)

sorry guys aint got a clue what your talking about l :lol:

So which oil is the best


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

sTTranger said:


> sorry guys aint got a clue what your talking about l :lol:
> 
> So which oil is the best


Castrol Edge 5w-30

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_165581

BTW hows the wot box?


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Copy/paste...

One study that I read on police cars that were having *bearing failures using a 10W30 *oil after being in service for a while concluded that under "chase" conditions, *although the oil was performing above its weight *(3.2cst against 2.9cst @ 150c which is standard for that grade of oil) *it was not sufficient to prevent failure of the bearing*. A similar oil that had better High Shear High Temp specifications was tested for a similar time frame. This oil recorded a thickness of 3.8cst @ 150c (after similar use), *the bearings did not exhibit failure or excessive wear with the better High Shear High Temp rating*. This shows that even .6 of a cst @ 150c can have dramatic consequences to the bearings.
*Protect the piston rings and the cylinder walls at the 'Normal operating temp"* - the temperature here is even greater (170-300c) and a similar lubrication method is used (hydrodynamic). *Although only a minimal oil thickness is required, if it is too thin the lubrication film is broken and rapid wear occurs.*



TTRS_500 said:


> sTTranger said:
> 
> 
> > sorry guys aint got a clue what your talking about l :lol:
> ...


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

Fuchs Titan Race Pro S 5w-40

that's prob the best, but I don't get why there are so many oile all braned with VW, or Audi, or BMW etc etc


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Anybody here actually knows what the 505.00 VW std. oil definition says???



> VW 505.00 Passenger car diesel engine oil specification, minimum performance level CCMC PD-2.
> Lists viscosities *SAE 5W-50, 10W-50/60*, 15W-40/50, 20W-40/50 requiring 13% max. evaporation loss and SAE 5W-30/40, 10W-30/40 requiring 15% max. evaporation loss.


For those of you going for the VW 507.00 oil spec.



> VW 507.00 Low SAPS oils suitable for Euro 4 engines and almost all VAG diesel engines from 2000 onwards with extended service intervals, unitary injector pumps and also Pumpe-Düse ("PD") engines. *Excludes V10, R5 engines* and VW Commercial vehicles without fitted DPF (diesel particulate filters)


SO Mr. Wiseguy with the voided warranty!! The ball is in your corner now..... 

Just to piss you off a little more....do your homework TWICE!! [smiley=book2.gif] before engaging in a discussion of things you have little or no knowledge off other than hearsay and a owners manual.


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## mrdemon (Apr 20, 2005)

Audi spec is 504.00 for the TTRS


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## phope (Mar 26, 2006)

Mule said:


> For those of you going for the VW 507.00 oil spec.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The VW 507 spec relates purely to diesel, isn't it? I read that as 507 spec oil not being suitable for V10 diesels and inline 5 cylinder diesels


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

Not entirely.... The TT-RS is Euro4. Depending on emission law, you could be forced to run low sulphur oils...

I just included it, so people could see that the oil needed for the TT-RS is not purely based on what the car needs, but also what the environment predicts.





phope said:


> Mule said:
> 
> 
> > For those of you going for the VW 507.00 oil spec.
> ...


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## phope (Mar 26, 2006)

I thought the RS engine was EU5...certainly was described as such in an Audi configurator to me the other day


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## Mule (Jul 12, 2010)

As soon as the Euro 5 and Euro 6 standards enter into force, Member States must refuse the approval, registration, sale and introduction of vehicles that do not comply with these emission limits. An additional delay of one year is allowed for goods transport vehicles (category N1, classes II and III, and category N2) and vehicles designed to fulfill specific social needs. Time frame:

the Euro 5 standard came into force on 1 September 2009 for the approval of vehicles, and shall apply from 1 January 2011 for the registration and sale of new types of cars; 
the Euro 6 standard will come into force on 1 September 2014 for the approval of vehicles, and from 1 January 2015 for the registration and sale of new types of cars;

The car was approved before 1 sept 2009. Therefore orginally it had to be Euro4. But it seems that it has been upgraded to Euro5 and can be approved according to the new norm.



phope said:


> I thought the RS engine was EU5...certainly was described as such in an Audi configurator to me the other day


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## phope (Mar 26, 2006)

makes sense


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

Mule, you are full of info...got to be worth the trip to the Ring to meet up...hope to make 23rd or 40th October. I will let you know nearer the time which date...my guess is 30th is likely - gives me enough time to plan.


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## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

sTTranger said:


> ...So which oil is the best


I just pick up a bottle from my local Audi dealer, a Castrol Synthetic - though at £16 for a 1ltr bottle, it is suitably expensive!


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

996cab said:


> sTTranger said:
> 
> 
> > ...So which oil is the best
> ...


5w 30 edge I bet if it hasnt been rebranded for audis use


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## iModTTS (Jan 27, 2009)

Red Line is fantastic as well, thats what I use now.


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## sTTranger (Oct 21, 2008)

TTRS_500 said:


> sTTranger said:
> 
> 
> > sorry guys aint got a clue what your talking about l :lol:
> ...


ok thanks

Havent fitted it yet, ed at aps is strongly advising me not to :?


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