# Dash - Dials and Illumination???



## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

Hi all,

Had a blown fuse the other day for the lights. So I replaced this, while I was there I went through all the fuses making sure they were all ok, which they were.

Since then my dash cluster - none of the dials move upon ignition on or starting/driving, odometer is not lit up and there is no illumination across the whole cluster.

I do however had the EPC, EML, Handbrake and battery lights up ( when ignitions on ) and also central info LED lights up, the central brake warning symbol appear as normal, (need new pads).

Whats gone wrong, does anyone know. I get a few things coming from vagcom too.

18058 - Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from instrument cluster
01582 - Signal for Coolant Temperature 30-00 - Open or Short to B+
01370 - Alarm triggered by Interior Monitoring
35-00 - -
01570 - Turn-Off Delay: Terminal 15
29-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
01134 - Alarm Horn (H12)
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

After another sweep of codes after clearing them all I get

18057 - Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from ABS Controller
P1649 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
plus above but no 18058 error

I know the alarm horn does not work, supposedly battery or something.

But I cannot understand why i know have no illumination, gauges or odometer?

Any help would be greatly appreciated 

I also have access to VAGCOM and VAG Tacho if needed.

Thanks all 
Si


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

If this happened after you pulled the fuses then you have to suspect this.
Re -check every fuse that you disturbed, is indeed ok and back in the correct place?
There are gaps in the fuse box.
If they are all ok _*** (see Edit below) _ then have a read about the instruments test in Vagcom Section 17.
You can test all the gauges, dials, lights and needles.

Can you post up the Vagcom Soft Coding of Control Module 17?

Edit- unless these faults are old, ie did you have an ABS fail before, if not then have a third check of the fuse locations.


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

Skeee said:


> If this happened after you pulled the fuses then you have to suspect this.
> Re -check every fuse that you disturbed, is indeed ok and back in the correct place?
> There are gaps in the fuse box.
> If they are all ok _*** (see Edit below) _ then have a read about the instruments test in Vagcom Section 17.
> ...


Re-checked all fuses today with a multimeter on ohms, each and every one is fine.

I did a test of the instruments (17) everything but the needle dash illumination one was ok (cannot remember the full name)

Actually, looking at a vagcom print out I did a few days ago it shows 18057.

I had the below too;

17545 - Fuel Trim: Bank 1 (Add): System too Rich P1137 - 35-00 - -
17705 - Pressure Drop between Turbo and Throttle Valve (check D.V.!) P1297 - 35-00 - -

Which resulted me to look at my breather pipes and to find they were non existent underneath insulation tape, (previous owner!) I fitted new breather pipes today. Then I notice no dash illumination & gauges etc.

From pulling the fuses to check and fitting the new hoses, car had not moved or had been started?

How do you mean "Can you post up the Vagcom Soft Coding of Control Module 17?"

Thanks Skeee


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

Hi Si,
it seems too coincidental that all was fine (except the turbo-hose code) but after removing fuses you have a major ABS and Dashpod fault. If it was just one then perhaps it could be a random failure but both seems unlikely. But not impossible.
Code 01206 according to Ross Tech:- http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/01206 is the wiring to the Dashpod/Ign. Perhaps if you have a damaged loom and disturbed it when you repaired the hose?

If all the fuses have been put back securely and in the right place then you have a Dashpod wiring and ABS ECU failure.
Both are comms failures so would imply a poor connection, or no power to both units. 
_Forget the Alarm Horn code for now, as you say the internal battery has likely died. However don't leave it too long as they leak. Loads of info re this on the forum._
It's worth a check of the two ABS fuses on top of the battery are sound and haven't corroded/burnt. However I would suspect this could be a broken/exposed wire that's common to both systems.









Next go into Vagcom,
select control module
17- Instruments.
clear any faults.
And also have a look at your soft coding.
The Soft Coding will also be posted up on the basic scan, ie

Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8Nx-920-xxx-17.LBL
Controller: 8N2 920 980 A
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. M73 D14
Coding: 05444
Shop #: WSC 00408
TRUZZZ8Nxxxxxxxx4 AUZ5Zxxxxxxx9
No fault code found. 

The 05444 Soft Coding determines how the dashpod works, ie when you want the needles/dials backlights etc to come on.
The WSC (workshop code) is who last replaced the dashpod, 01236 seems to be the original factory code. _Mine was replaced_.
Also note the ABS failure code might come back as soon as you start or drive as it does a self test at 5mph-ish.
If the 18057 ABS fault does return then have a look at the big ABS plug and check it isn't corroded inside.
It has the big slide off collar. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=321391&p=2524288&hilit=J104#p2524288


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

I will have to do another vagcom scan later on when the missus gets home.

I had the abs error before changing fuses, the light would sometime come on and then disappear at times?

Its just really weird how it would stop. My mechanic friend thinks I had the ignition on when removing the fuses, I can't remember.


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

Keep a record of all the scans as if they are intermittent it may help later.
If the fault had occurred before I would check the big ABS J104, plug and the fuses on top of the battery for corrosion burning etc before you start ripping out cable looms.


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

Attached is the latest vag com scan.

Si


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

Instruments 17 soft coding

Address 17 -------------------------------------------------------
Controller: 8N2 920 950
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. M73 D02
Coding: 05444
Shop #: WSC 00000
TRUZZZ8N321006606 AUZ5Z0A7030013


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

You may wish to edit out your VIN and Engine No as this is a public forum.
However your coding is fine as it is the same as mine which is- All dash lights off, ie pointers and back light off, until the side lights are switched on.
Who ever replaced your dashpod didn't enter a Work Shop Code (WSC) so unlikely a dealer.
Re the ABS I would suspect yours is original (WSC 01236) and is the older type 1999-2003 Continental Teves Mk20 which can be repaired by companies like "BBA Reman" etc *if* it is the ABS ECU and not a wiring issue.


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

Skeee said:


> You may wish to edit out your VIN and Engine No as this is a public forum.
> However your coding is fine as it is the same as mine which is- All dash lights off, ie pointers and back light off, until the side lights are switched on.
> Who ever replaced your dashpod didn't enter a Work Shop Code (WSC) so unlikely a dealer.
> Re the ABS I would suspect yours is original (WSC 01236) and is the older type 1999-2003 Continental Teves Mk20 which can be repaired by companies like "BBA Reman" etc if it is the ABS ECU and not a wiring issue.


Amended..

Its not picking up the abs fault since last night, being driven and today.

Same old 17705 error!!

Just done a throttle body alignment.

Would you think I need to recode my dash cluster if I took the fuse out for it with the ignition on?

Baring in mind, immob is fine etc.

Si?


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

It's still got it's Soft Coding so that part of the memory is intact. However pulling a fuse with it live may have done some harm or may not. TBH I don't know.
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/01336
According to Ross Tech the 01336 code is a poor connection/broken wire, 01570 isn't listed but I found one reference (from google? :roll: ) that mentioned the ignition switch for that. _Terminal 15 appears to be switched 12v with ignition_
You could be really unlucky and have three loose plugs or broken/corroded wires however I would think it more likely it is a common earth or connector with all these three lines.

I'm not too familiar with the Instruments (17) Measuring Blocks, but it may be obvious if you have a look as suggested by Ross Tech.
Re the DV code, if the pipe is now ok then test the DV, it's just a diaphragm.


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

I was thinking that, I also checked the mileage output to through vagcom and that was correct, plus keys and immob works so its still coded in.

I really think i've shorted something by pulling the fuse out whilst ignition is on, or done some permament damage. I didnt think I pulled it out with ignition on, but I may of as I was testing the lights and fuses the same time.

Si


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

Just to add aswell

Illumination for the following also do not work since the fault has occurred

Heated seats buttons, esp button, petrol cap button, interior sensor button, boot button, wing mirror switch, interior door locking button and the light switch cluster.

I just took it for a slightly feirce 2 min drive around the block, I come back and park up, and the lights of above and the dash all flickered on for a second, i really mean 1 second.

Then sitting here while typing this they did it again. I am thinking a loose wire for this somewhere.

Si

ps. just done it a few more times, gone through the engine bay wriggling wires to see if they come back on, with the help of the missus sat in the car, but nothing after wriggling wires, still flickering


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

Today I have had the dash cluster out, checked the fuse box and checked the engine bay for loose or damaged wires.

Everything looks fine.

Im at a nuts end... It just all wants to flicker at me!


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## groove65 (Mar 17, 2013)

Def a loose or corroded connector there - maybe behind fuse box connectors. Worth looking at with magnifying glass and good torch, even in daylight. TBH this happens all the time when you disturb connections that have probably been untouched for years.


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

groove65 said:


> Def a loose or corroded connector there - maybe behind fuse box connectors. Worth looking at with magnifying glass and good torch, even in daylight. TBH this happens all the time when you disturb connections that have probably been untouched for years.


I gave them all a good wiggle with the ignition on so that if it was they would light up, but nothing...

I keep thinking there must be a loose connection, but then I am also thinking that the cluster has given up?


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## groove65 (Mar 17, 2013)

When I worked as IBM field engineer we would always go back to 'what was last thing i did before this happened' in troubleshooting. Over 90% of the time it was that last activity that caused the present fault - especially on maint jobs where we were disturbing connections that hadn't been touched in a long while. Might be worth a spray of contact cleaner with the fuses out and reseat all fuses again


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

groove65 said:


> When I worked as IBM field engineer we would always go back to 'what was last thing i did before this happened' in troubleshooting. Over 90% of the time it was that last activity that caused the present fault - especially on maint jobs where we were disturbing connections that hadn't been touched in a long while. Might be worth a spray of contact cleaner with the fuses out and reseat all fuses again


Will get some tomorrow and do that too.

Cheers


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

TT-Si said:


> groove65 said:
> 
> 
> > When I worked as IBM field engineer we would always go back to 'what was last thing i did before this happened' in troubleshooting. Over 90% of the time it was that last activity that caused the present fault - especially on maint jobs where we were disturbing connections that hadn't been touched in a long while. Might be worth a spray of contact cleaner with the fuses out and reseat all fuses again
> ...


Make sure the battery is disconnected if you do this and let the cleaner dry thoroughly before reconnecting.

Also make sure the doors are closed before disconnecting/reconnecting the battery as that can harm the dashpod.


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

Skeee said:


> TT-Si said:
> 
> 
> > groove65 said:
> ...


Will do


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

Curiously though, If i was to take the fuse out to check the terminals, how would I go about this, to see if there is current etc?

I have a multimeter, and was able to test the fuses when they were plugged in using the ohms setting.


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

You can test the fuses when they are removed using Ohms (Continuity) but if you check a fuse whilst it is plugged in to a circuit you will be measuring the other way too. (Google "_Parallel Paths_")

If you do a voltage check on the fuse holder it is better to pull the fuses before power is applied ie with ign off.
Also note several fuses are live with ign off as they are fed directly from the battery, known as Terminal 30.

If you do a current (Amps) check *(DON'T)* then as soon as you connect the second test lead of the meter you will be "_making the circuit_" but without the protection of a fuse so may cause damage to the meter or the circuit.

The best and safest way to check this would be to completely remove the battery and do a resistance check (Ohms) from the supply side of the fuse holder direct to the battery supply/positive lead. Use a secure connection, in the fuse box, something like a spade connector same size as the fuse spade end connected to a flylead for the meter. Then leave it all connected whilst the other person investigates the wiring loom and see if the resistance changes.

Fuses 12,~15 and fuses 38~42 are all fed from a live busbar, or Terminal 30. Fuse 11 is fed from the ign.


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

Rightyo,

I have checked all the fuses again and the contacts, I have used electrical contact cleaner and allowed it to dry out. But still nothing.

Is there a relay or central fuse elsewhere that controls the dash cluster and illumination of the switches on dash and wing mirror switch?

Thanks again
Simon


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

From the handbook,
Fuse 11 (switched from ign) Instrument cluster, auto headlamp range, DSG selector control

The rest of the list are permanent live and fed from the same busbar
Fuse 12 OBD (vagcom etc) & Telephone
Fuse 13 Brake lights 
Fuse 14 Interior lights, reading lights & Central locking.
Fuse 15 Instrument cluster, auto gearbox & DSG
Fuse 38 Central locking.
Fuse 39 Hazard lights
Fuse 40 Horn
Fuse 41 Cigarette lighter
Fuse 42 Seat Heating.

My thinking is that if it were a common supply then everything on that list would flicker also.
However looking at the list if yours is manual, would you notice?


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

There are some relays *(I think are*) under the dash, where some Modders take a switched supply for adding more puddle lights.
For pic viewtopic.php?f=2&t=323706&p=2538650&hilit=relays#p2538650
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=148223&p=1630841&hilit=interior+lights+puddle+pic#p1630841
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=320831&hilit=interior+lights+puddle


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

Hi,

Cars a manual... As far as i can tell there is current going to fuse 11.

This is nuts!


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

Skeee said:


> From the handbook,
> Fuse 11 (*switched from ign*) Instrument cluster, auto headlamp range, DSG selector control *
> The rest of the list are permanent live and fed from the same busbar*
> Fuse 12 OBD (vagcom etc) & Telephone
> ...


*  EDIT,- the statements in bold above ie switched or permanent live are my interpretation from the free online wiring diagram * If someone with a Bentley manual can corroborate or dispute this then all the better. The fuse numbers are from my 2005 225 Roadster Audi Handbook.


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

Skeee said:


> From the handbook,
> The rest of the list are permanent live and fed from the same busbar
> Fuse 12 OBD (vagcom etc) & Telephone
> Fuse 13 Brake lights
> ...


All of the above work and do not flicker? Hazards went nuts the other day on tuesday, wouldnt turn off, they eventually did.


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

TT-Si said:


> ....................Hazards went nuts the other day on tuesday, wouldnt turn off, they eventually did.


That's most likely a separate issue.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74756&p=2523906&hilit=flasher+fix#p2523906


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

Re the Cluster, have you contacted 'Cluster Repairs' or any of the other Cluster Repair specialist to see if they've heard of this?
They may just insist you send it for a test but it may be worth an e-mail or phone call?
After all they will have to cure the problem so should have an idea if it could be the cluster or most likely an external wiring issue.

If you do contact them, have all the fault history including the VagCom scans with you.


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

Skeee said:


> Re the Cluster, have you contacted 'Cluster Repairs' or any of the other Cluster Repair specialist to see if they've heard of this?
> They may just insist you send it for a test but it may be worth an e-mail or phone call?
> After all they will have to cure the problem so should have an idea if it could be the cluster or most likely an external wiring issue.
> 
> If you do contact them, have all the fault history including the VagCom scans with you.


Spoken to BBA-Remain;

They said the fuel gauge fault is common, which I know. But they have not heard of the other faults to be cause of the dash cluster pod, they have said that they would be happy to investigate the possibility of repair and should it be the cluster and they are unable to repair it they will refund it.

However I have the feeling I will pay for it and send it off for them to just fix the fuel gauge.

:-/


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## groove65 (Mar 17, 2013)

Skeee said:


> TT-Si said:
> 
> 
> > groove65 said:
> ...


Now thats a good tip !! i didnt know that one - does it affect the C/Locking ? had an old Vauxhall carlton once that locked me out of it when i went to the boot to get some MAP manuals to answer a support call from an engineer. keys in ignition... had to break in to the damn thing. luckily it was a company car !


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## groove65 (Mar 17, 2013)

just a thought, wonder if it could be a voltage regulator issue if its affecting a lot of circuits at once?


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

TT-Si said:


> Spoken to BBA-Remain; They said the fuel gauge fault is common, which I know. But they have not heard of the other faults to be cause of the dash cluster pod, they have said that they would be happy to investigate the possibility of repair and should it be the cluster and they are unable to repair it they will refund it.
> However I have the feeling I will pay for it and send it off for them to just fix the fuel gauge.
> :-/


Have you tried the others, eg Cluster Repairs?


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

groove65 said:


> just a thought, wonder if it could be a voltage regulator issue if its affecting a lot of circuits at once?


If it was voltage reg then I would expect a Terminal 30 flag (OP had a Terminal 15 flag-which is switched live- Terminal 30 is constant live) I would also think he'd have dash and ignition issues and other more serious symptoms, not just lighting.

Also re the door, several have reported Dashpod issues re this. Do a Forum search for Dashpod/Door/Open.
Also read Len's post (LPL) regards the Airbag fault because the battery died in situ! Forum Search for Airbag/65535.
_If you worked for IBM then a 65535 flag on a 16bit Databus should ring alarm bells._


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

Just wondering if there is a "Lighting Module" on the TT?


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

Just had another scroll through the wiring diagrams _(am learning loads here  -it's almost like being back at work  )_ there doesn't appear to be a _'lighting module'_ as such however most of the external lighting, and a control for the internal lights goes through the headlamp rotary switch and the internal lighting goes through the CCU (Comfort Control Module or Central Locking ECU)
As you had an issue with loss of '_terminal 15_' (switched live) then I'd be more inclined towards the relays under/behind the dash rather than the rotary lighting switch as the rotary switch is permanently live fed from terminal 30. 
It might be worth scrolling through the Central Locking Measuring Blocks in vagcom, whilst operating all the switches and microswitches, doors, locks, boot internal lights etc.

Is it worth disconnecting the interior light unit also:-
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=326463


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

The relay I am looking at is #2, according to autodata Ignition Aux Circuits Relay, maybe as its items that come on with the ignition?

I did do a central locking measuring block test, and all worked correctly?

Si


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

Spoke to cluster repairs and a few others that fix the dash clusters and none of them have any recollection on this happening due to the cluster and have no clue on to what the problem could be. :-(


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

TT-Si said:


> The relay I am looking at is #2, according to autodata Ignition Aux Circuits Relay, maybe as its items that come on with the ignition?
> I did do a central locking measuring block test, and all worked correctly? Si


 Is this relay working positively then? Or is it intermittent?


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

Skeee said:


> TT-Si said:
> 
> 
> > The relay I am looking at is #2, according to autodata Ignition Aux Circuits Relay, maybe as its items that come on with the ignition?
> ...


I need to check the relay, how can I go about that Skeee?


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

Usually relays either burn/stick shut or stick open if the coil has broken (gone open circuit)
A quick test (but not always conclusive) is to feel if the case clicks when it's operated. When the lights are switched on then off.

As yours is intermittent, it might be an idea with lights on, to gently tap it with the end of a small screwdriver to see if that makes the lights go out. I wouldn't do that test too often though as you don't want to worsen the situation.

If you have an identical relay you can compare continuity checks using a multimeter on the Ohms range.
If the relay has a diagram on the top or underneath then it may be easy to work out the contacts configuration.

I just found this off you tube- although I would prob use croc clips or spade connectors to connect the relay and then again tap it to see if it is loose internally. 




This looks more helpful and I prefer the idea of using a 9v battery. http://www.backinblackgp.com/Relays.htm


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

Skeee said:


> Usually relays either burn/stick shut or stick open if the coil has broken (gone open circuit)
> A quick test (but not always conclusive) is to feel if the case clicks when it's operated. When the lights are switched on then off.
> 
> As yours is intermittent, it might be an idea with lights on, to gently tap it with the end of a small screwdriver to see if that makes the lights go out. I wouldn't do that test too often though as you don't want to worsen the situation.
> ...


Will do this over the weekend!


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

Oddly, Cluster Repairs came back to me again today...

*I wrote in email originally.*

-----
Hi,

I have a Audi TT 8N - 2001. I have the fuel gauge reading incorrectly.... Or was anyway.

Now I get nothing, no gauges work, illumination does not work, odometer does not light up or display. The central display works along with the normal lighted icons (handbrake, EML, indicators etc.)

I am also not getting any illumination on any of the central console switches only when pressed and no illumination on the Light switch or the wing mirror switch.

I am wondering if you have any recollection of this problem before and being a fault of the dashpod?

Regards
Simon
----

*Their reply today was*

----
Hi,

This is a common fault with these types of instrument cluster and yes we can repair the unit backed with a 24 month warranty. Cost of repairing the instrument cluster is £99 to £139 plus VAT with the return carriage inc. Repair time is 1/3 days.

Please call us if you need further advice.

Cluster Repairs UK team.
-----

Now none of the other companies have come across this problem as a whole and not been at fault of the dash pod. However these guys are saying its common...

I'm thinking they are out for the quick quid...


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## TT-Si (Sep 2, 2012)

Remapped the TT today and also did the Secondary Air Pump delete, sounded like an aeroplane on startup... Now its so much better, pulls right through the gears powerfully and smoothly.

Dash is getting sent off next week to get sorted and then Ill have a sweet TT


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