# My poor f*cking car. Thank you Hitchin Audi



## jampott

You're probably aware of the hassle I had getting my car booked in for some warranty work. Involved hassle with Audi CS and still they've had it for weeks...

I was looking forward to getting it back today - they even called to ask whether it was remapped, as they were doing some software updates and needed confirmation. I was just waiting for the "come and get it, sir" phone call...

...which didn't happen.

I got a different phone call instead. In which they admitted some twat has damaged my car. Reversed into it with a truck, apparently.

So be warned. If you leave your car with an Audi dealer, there is a good chance this might happen:










Don't worry, though. I've been assured it'll be repaired to "Audi Standards" by the apologetic Service Manager. I've already politely informed her that "Audi Standards" simply won't do. They are woeful.

I'm more angry than upset. Perhaps its their "Thank you" for me grassing them up to Audi CS about their ridiculous waiting times. Perhaps its just "one of those things"... I don't care. Audi are going to pay for this one, and if they think this can be sorted by returning me a crash-damaged car, complete with a shrug and an apology, they've obviously never dealt with me before.

Serious questions - what do you think they should offer by way of compensation? Should I go directly to Audi CS, or at least give the dealer chance to put it right?

On the plus side, I'm quite proud that I only used the word "fuck" once during the entire conversation, and NOT AT ALL in the email I've followed it up with... :lol:


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## LakesTTer

Can't offer anything in the way of advice, but you can use me (and probably others) after my ECU and turbo episode, if you're planning to cite any more examples of Audi efficiency.

Tough break mate. [smiley=furious3.gif]


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## kmpowell

Words fail me they really do!

Elements of Audi NEVER cease to amaze me anymore, but just when you think things can't get worse, something like this happens.

That CERTAINLY isn't just 'reversing into a truck' damage! The rip in the bumper shows it was reversed with speed, and then instead of eased out gently, IMO dragged back across/out again at speed! That is a substantial rip in plastic that is supposed to bend and take 'bumps'!

My opinion: Take them to the fucking cleaners, sell the car, and then do what you should have done originally...... walk!


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## jampott

LakesTTer said:


> Can't offer anything in the way of advice, but you can use me (and probably others) after my ECU and turbo episode, if you're planning to cite any more examples of Audi efficiency.
> 
> Tough break mate. [smiley=furious3.gif]


Thanks fella. Unfortunately no further examples are needed. Audi Dealer Network is quite the most woeful and shoddy bunch of c u n t s I've ever had the misfortune of dealing with... and I've enough ammunition from personal experience to beat them over the head with already...


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## L7

For fucks sake what the hell are they playing at [smiley=freak.gif]

How in fucks name does one manage that when ones supposed to be "taking care" of a customers car.

I would'nt blame you if you throw the towel in with Audi after this latest fuck up, i would tell them to keep the car and pay you what it's cost you so far plus 10%


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## LakesTTer

jampott said:


> LakesTTer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't offer anything in the way of advice, but you can use me (and probably others) after my ECU and turbo episode, if you're planning to cite any more examples of Audi efficiency.
> 
> Tough break mate. [smiley=furious3.gif]
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks fella. Unfortunately no further examples are needed. Audi Dealer Network is quite the most woeful and shoddy bunch of c u n t s I've ever had the misfortune of dealing with... and I've enough ammunition from personal experience to beat them over the head with already...
Click to expand...

Make sure you beat them well, that damage is fuckin' outrageous.


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## Loz180

How long have you had the car? could you go for an 05 replacement? Start their and work down to a loan car of RS6 plus quality or better. Ask for Â£1000 in comp for the loss in value a "crash damaged" car will incurr. I would be quite ruthless in the most polite way. Question is, what do you WANT from them?

I'd start by adding 25% onto that and going from there... Good luck.

Ps. I used to know a guy who was good with explosives... Now I can't think why that would be relevant ..... :twisted:

You could always send Ryan round to house sit for them while they do the work :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## jampott

kmpowell said:


> Words fail me they really do!
> 
> Elements of Audi NEVER cease to amaze me anymore, but just when you think things can't get worse, something like this happens.
> 
> That CERTAINLY isn't just 'reversing into a truck' damage! The rip in the bumper shows it was reversed with speed, and then instead of eased out gently, IMO dragged back across/out again at speed! That is a substantial rip in plastic that is supposed to bend and take 'bumps'!
> 
> My opinion: Take them to the fucking cleaners, sell the car, and then do what you should have done originally...... walk!


Unfortunately, selling the car isn't an option. Its depreciated quite a chunk since I drove it off the forecourt. Of course it'll level out to be what I expected eventually, but right now selling would be financial suicide. I wish they'd written it off, though. My GAP insurance would make me very happy indeed...

According to them, it was reversed into by another vehicle (a truck). But for me, its a moot point how the damage was caused... it was in THEIR care, and now its bashed. My experience tarnished after 5k miles.


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## Dotti

Jampott ....make them replace you with a new motor if your having warranty work on it already and now this accident thanks to the dealer :x !.

Go on go and demand for a new car . At least this way you aim high :wink:


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## jampott

I'd so like to take the fucking mods off and give them the keys back.

I've written a stern but fair email response, saying I want it back repaired to MY standards...:



> Not a pretty sight. I cannot believe this can happen to my pride and joy whilst under your care. The car is barely 5k miles old, and already the ownership experience is tarnished.
> 
> Not enough that you've been waiting on parts for weeks, now this happens.
> 
> Please be aware, I do NOT want the car repaired to "Audi Standards", as I fear the standard of Audi Customer Service is woefully low. I want it repaired to MY standards. Furthermore, I expect to be fully compensated. I don't think it is enough to be offered a "crash damaged car", complete with a shrug and an apology. I will leave you to be the judge of how much you value your customers, and how much you think the me driving a "repaired" car, PLUS the hassle of not having it for another week (after you've already had it for several weeks already...). Not forgetting the fact that, come resale, accident damaged / repaired cars are still "obvious", regardless of how good the repair is - and are certainly worth less to the potential buyer. Would you buy a car that had been crashed for the same price as a pristine example?
> 
> I know this wasn't directly the fault of you, or probably not even an employee of Audi, but I don't particularly care. The car was left with you in good faith and your obligation is to return it to me in the same condition I left it with you, except with the faults fixed.
> 
> You are probably aware I had to involve Audi CS in the FIRST PLACE, simply to get my car booked into the dealership within a reasonable time. (you were quoting 4 weeks, not your claimed 10 working days). Of all the customer cars in your dealership today, I expect this was the LAST one you'd want damaged. You can rest assured I'll be in touch with Audi CS again if I feel this isn't been handled properly and to my satisfaction.


We'll see what their response is.

Can anyone give examples of situations like this in the past? What has the dealer done to sort the matter out?


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## jampott

Not up to my usual standard, but I'm usually not FUCKING LIVID when writing emails...


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## clived

Tim, if the car was parked around the back of Hitchin Audi it probably *was* an Audi employee that was driving the truck. So it's 100% their fault. Which, it being Hitchin Audi, does not surprise me at all.

I'd want:

a) A S4 or better delivered to me first thing for the duration
b) A free major service, to be taken at a dealership of my choice
c) A "sorry" gift from Audi CS - free Audi Driving Experience perhaps?

Or cash to the equivalent thereof.

Feel for you on this one Tim...


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## Jazzedout

Jambott, go after them!!!! :evil: :evil:

As I can see, luckily nothing happened to the exhaust, as I imagine it would be a real mess for them to replace a non-Audi part (it is a Milltek, isn't it?) If it is only the bumper and rear light it really is no big deal for resale value if the metal surface in the corner is damaged and needs filling etc. then it is a bigger issue. :? 
I really hope this gets sorted for you!


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## Boba FeTT

Sorry to hear and see that. Audi is pure joke. I would ask for compensation.

When my car was written off (a limited edition 206 GT, which I loved, and still do) I sued Peugeot for loss of earnings due to work comittments. I booked in for minor work but when returned I had no car. :evil: During a road test after work was done the car was hit by a lorry, and was peugeot's fault as it was the lorrys right of way. 

In return I got the money for the car plus extra to by a TT! 

Just make them cough up!


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## digimeisTTer

Hmm, I've had experience of this from the other end, long story but i was working for Renault when this guy came in to pick up his car (an old Renault 16) which had just had Â£2k of work including new gearbox, & some major suspension work(we all thought he was mad) but it was a few years ago.

Anyways the guy was standing in front of me settling up when our valeter attempted to move a V6 Renault 30 auto.

lots of revving from an the V6, the cars were all parallel parked opposite each other, unfortunately the punters R16 was sideways on in front of the R30 and the other cars opposite.

BANG! I look up and the valeter who's nickname very appropriately was "muppet" had launched this R30 into side of the R16 (bending it in half) and smashed it into the front of 3 other motors including 2 brand spanking R25 V6's.

Hey ho i had to tear up the guys invoice in front of him and spent the next 4 weeks sorting out insurance, loan cars and compo'

Basically Tim it was an accident, at least they admitted (obviously no choice) but providing they do, as Nutts suggested provide something appropriate for your inconvenience and they repair it to perfection, there's not much else you can expect.

sympathise tho' :?

(edited loads due to poor typing)


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## dj c225

Just read through your post and the email.

Really feel for you mate.

Hope you manage to get it sorted. Remember keep your cool, I know its hard.

Dealers make me mad :evil:


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## ronin

Silly c u n t s, how you only managed fuck once is beyond me.


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## t7

Tim what a nightmare :x

What I'd go for :

1. A loan vehicle of your choice for the duration - S4 cab for a couple of weeks? RS6?

2. Repair to the highest possible standard. They will know if their body shop is up to it or whether they need to send it to someone else. Tell them not to bother ringing you until it is done perfectly.

3. Demand compensation in cash for the value you estimate crash repairs have reduced your cars value. I'd say at least Â£2K - maybe more. Of course if you dont sell for a while the delta between "perfect" and "repaired" reduces but so what - you should be able to sell tomorrow without financial loss.

L


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## jampott

Cheers guys...

I like the idea of a decent loan car, but unfortunately an S4 cab isn't going to cut the mustard, and next week I'm flying off to Mexico - so as much as I'd like to take a fairly decent set of wheels off their hands, the only thing they could offer that I could make use of is an RS6 Avant. And even then it'd get dumped at Gatwick...

I want material compensation for the reduction in the value of my car, but this is kind of hard to assess.

I'll see what tomorrow brings.


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## Nando

jampoTT - what a wounder. Can't believe the amount of damage - punctured bumper!

When will dealers realise that they are playing with people's pride and joy?

They get to use/trash demonstrator cars all day and then don't change their mind-mode when they get into an 'owned' car. I realise your car wasn't being driven at the time but there appears to be an element of carelessness.

Fucking infuriating.

All the best. I am sure Audi are going to regret mucking you around :wink:


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## A3DFU

jampott said:


> You're probably aware of the hassle I had getting my car booked in for some warranty work. Involved hassle with Audi CS and still they've had it for weeks...
> 
> I was looking forward to getting it back today - they even called to ask whether it was remapped, as they were doing some software updates and needed confirmation. I was just waiting for the "come and get it, sir" phone call...
> 
> ...which didn't happen.
> 
> I got a different phone call instead. In which they admitted some twat has damaged my car. Reversed into it with a truck, apparently.
> 
> So be warned. If you leave your car with an Audi dealer, there is a good chance this might happen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry, though. I've been assured it'll be repaired to "Audi Standards" by the apologetic Service Manager. I've already politely informed her that "Audi Standards" simply won't do. They are woeful.
> 
> I'm more angry than upset. Perhaps its their "Thank you" for me grassing them up to Audi CS about their ridiculous waiting times. Perhaps its just "one of those things"... I don't care. Audi are going to pay for this one, and if they think this can be sorted by returning me a crash-damaged car, complete with a shrug and an apology, they've obviously never dealt with me before.
> 
> Serious questions - what do you think they should offer by way of compensation? Should I go directly to Audi CS, or at least give the dealer chance to put it right?
> 
> On the plus side, I'm quite proud that I only used the word "fuck" once during the entire conversation, and NOT AT ALL in the email I've followed it up with... :lol:


B*%%$y hell, Tim.

I am shocked and very soory to hear this (only now). I fully understand your anger and frust and, quite frankly, who'd blame you to have blown your top!!!!!!!!!! I'm sure that I would have!!!!!!!!!!!

Reflecting on it a few hours later though, I would suggest that you give the dealer a chance before going to Audi CS. My experience is that being calm usually gets better results than trying to hit anyone over the head, however difficult it may be.
Good luck and I hope that all will be fine in the end!!!


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## digimeisTTer

t7 said:


> Tim what a nightmare :x
> 
> What I'd go for :
> 
> 3. Demand compensation in cash for the value you estimate crash repairs have reduced your cars value. I'd say at least Â£2K - maybe more.


Sorry i'm far from impressed with Audi at the mo' but you have to be reasonable, where does Â£2k come from?

It can be repaired.


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## clived

digimeisTTer said:


> ...as Nutts suggested...


(Slightly off topic, but Mark hasn't posted on this thread....)


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## scavenger

Ouch, a bit of T-cut and a little elbow grease and it will be fine :wink:

Firstly, sorry.

It sucks, your pissed, the dealer is pissed, but at the end of the day accidents happen and it will have to be repaired - dont get me wrong, I would be equally as pissed as you are I am just trying to be realistic.

Personally I would ask for a car of "equivalent" standard, where-ever they have to source one from, and the car returned to showroom condition, which is obviously how it was when you delivered it to them. If they cannot deliver an equivalent car to you, and seeing as you are going away and dont need one, they can chauffer(sp) you where you need to go in the short term and limo you to the airport. On your return from Mexico they can limo you (+ guests) home where your pristinely repaired car will be awaiting your inspection.

You have to be clear in your own mind exactly what you want from this and convey that to Audi CS/dealers. Personally speaking, I would want ZERO disruption/loss of earnings, a perfectly repaired vehicle and Audi to exceed my expectations in dealing with this unfortunate incident. Realistically, I dont think they can offer any more than that, can they?


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## Karcsi

My God, Hitchin do it again. That is a real tear jerker.

They scratched mine a couple of months into ownership, repainted it, and then got some twat to polish it with a rag they must have found on the floor somewhere. Swirls all over the place.

Good luck with getting something out of them. Their attitude has always seemed to be that they don't give a fuck; which obviously they don't looking at the considerable damage to your car.

Why do people take jobs where they have to respect other people's property when they have no intention of doing so?! If I borrow something from someone I like to give it back in a BETTER condition than I was given it. What the fuck is wrong with these morons? Have they no pride in what they do?


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## garyc

digimeisTTer said:


> Hmm, I've had experience of this from the other end, long story but i was working for Renault when this guy came in to pick up his car (an old Renault 16) which had just had Â£2k of work including new gearbox, & some major suspension work(we all thought he was mad) but it was a few years ago.
> 
> Anyways the guy was standing in front of me settling up when our valeter attempted to move a V6 Renault 30 auto.
> 
> lots of revving from an the V6, the cars were all parallel parked opposite each other, unfortunately the punters R16 was sideways on in front of the R30 and the other cars opposite.
> 
> BANG! I look up and the valeter who's nickname very appropriately was "muppet" had launched this R30 into side of the R16 (bending it in half) and smashed it into the front of 3 other motors including 2 brand spanking R25 V6's.
> 
> Hey ho i had to tear up the guys invoice in front of him and spent the next 4 weeks sorting out insurance, loan cars and compo'
> 
> Basically Tim it was an accident, at least they admitted (obviously no choice) but providing they do, as Nutts suggested provide something appropriate for your inconvenience and they repair it to perfection, there's not much else you can expect.
> 
> sympathise tho' :?
> 
> (edited loads due to poor typing)


Concur with Digi - an accident. One of those things. Try not to get too upset about it - it's only a car. An estate car at that (just imagine if it had been a posh coupe :wink: )

AUK CS have always been good to me - got a Harvey Nichols Xmas hamper when my original S4 was late in dhipping - but you will have to deal with Hitchin (who bought my RS4 BTW) whp will most likely treat it as an 'unfortunate accident' and act as they would with any insured losses.

I am sure you will not let them Fuk you over and that you will receive the requisite toadying, bowing, scraping etc from Hitchin management. I would not anticipate any ex-gratia payment for percieved loss of value though. It looks like damge is confined to OS rear light cluster and rear apron/bumper unit only, but not to surrounding panels. This is good news since once these are replaced the car will be 'as good as new'.

The stress might take a few hours off your life though Tim - and it just isnt worth it for an estate car. Accidents will happen.

It's nice morning with a holiday weekend ahead. Relax and enjoy. Let me buy you a nice chilled virtual pouilly fuse to enjoy with you loved one later.... [smiley=cheers.gif]

ps those Karma lessons I have been attending really do seem to work........


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## mighTy Tee

Tim - sorry to see what Hitchin have done to your motor.

I know if I was Audi, there is one person on this forum who I wouldn't want this to happen to, and it just so happens to be you. Give 'em hell

Make sure they change that bumper - otherwise some smart ar$e may decide it is a simple repair repair job and fill it to save money. :?


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## jonah

Sorry to hear this Tim, One concilation might be that it looks like its just bumper and rearlight damage from the pic, If this is the case you may never know it happened Hopefully!

Jonah


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## L8_0RGY

OMFG 

That is some serious damage - and from an official Audi dealer as well.

I am almost at a loss for words.

I would do a thorough inspection of your car when you get it back and see if you can get some freebies thrown in.

A letter to Mr Rose perhaps?


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## digimeisTTer

clived said:


> digimeisTTer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...as Nutts suggested...
> 
> 
> 
> (Slightly off topic, but Mark hasn't posted on this thread....)
Click to expand...

Err sorry Clive, as you suggested


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## beastty

That's outrageous, really feel for you Tim.

On a personal note a bit worried about taking BeasTTy there for her first service, unfortunately I'm committed as I have a 50% off letter from them.

I did have a similar incident in my Mondeo a few years back.

Having had an altercation with a bollard (front offside wing) I took the car in to the Ford dealer to get a quote. Parking was a very tight and I kept having to move the car back and forth to let other through. With my recent experience with aforementioned bollard I was a taking things very carefully and slowly.

Anyway the service manager says, 'here let me move it, I'm used to this place'. So in he gets and reverses, at some speed, down the entry road. I'm standing there thinking 'this guys good' and then 'he'll stop soon cos he's getting very close to those cars behind him' and then CRASH. The big Muppet but a sizeable dent in the rear off side wing of the car.

I was just glad I had a friend as a witness as nobody would have believed me otherwise.

It was difficult to argue that the damage would have an affect on the value of the car and I settled for apologies and a repair.

Bob


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## CapTT

This is an absolute blood boiler Tim , I can imagine just how mad you feel . You are one unlucky Audi customer for sure . However after showing this to my mate who owns a body shop this morning we both agree with Mr.Powell this was not damaged by a truck reversing into it. From the photo the consensus of opinion seems to be that it was actually your car that was reversed into something and scraped along probably something made of bricks and mortar , but without closer examination this can`t be determined exactly of course , and there is that sharp object that pierced the rear bumper ?. However my mate says its an easy repair and as garyc says you will probably never know it ever happened , apart from that burning rage in your brain , and its only cosmetic damage after all . So just take your revenge on Hitchin Audi and don`t worry about the car . How about using the freedom of information act to get access from them to the insurance paperwork for this incident and any security camera footage ?. Its all bound to help you as leverage to exact reparations from them . And who knows what they are covering up ?. The Mexico trip was bloody well planned though !. Have a good holiday and return refreshed to a (hopefully) pristine motor .


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## paulb

Ask them to respray the car a decent colour for free :lol:

I have to say that a proper repair shouldn't detract from the value of the car and won't be listed on HPI if they are repairing it. It had no impact on the value of my TT when I sold it (Audi residuals are bad enough these days anyway).

Anyway, enjoy your hols and relax...


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## Kell

I can certainly imagine why you'd be angry Tim - especially given your reservations about coming back to Audi in the first place.

I don't totally agree with the comments about 'it's only a car'. While you may have that attitude once it's sold, right now it's your pride and joy. Had this been an isolated incident (ie not on top of the hassle you've had getting it bookedin in the first place), perhaps you would be more chilled. But it isn't. So I can totally understand your frustration.

Perhaps, there's another body shop you'd rather take it to to ensure the work gets done properly and to your satisfaction rather than letting Hitchin sort it.

Lastly, why not ring around a couple of other dealers and ask them how much you'd get for the car right now in pristine condition and how much they'd offer if you told them it had been involved in a shunt.

It's unlikely, but you may be able to get them to give you difference - or the difference in Audi vouchers.

Gutted for you though. :?


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## W7 PMC

Only just spotted that thread.

Feel for you buddy. Go after them with all you have. Audi will cough up if pushed hard enough as i found out after numerous battles with dealer & Audi CS with my 2nd TT.

One thing they will defo pay up for & a good reason to have finance on the car (assuming you have it on finance) is to make them repay you the actual cash you'll have paid out in finance over the time yours has been off the road. Include all such dealer time etc. & then divide by your monthly payment.

Good luck.


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## raven

This is unbelievable. Really feel for you mate - what an absolute nightmare. However, in my experience, you are going to get nowhere demanding compensation from them and it's just not worth you getting stressed about trying to do so. Your car will be totally as good as new when it's repaired and there will be absolutely no impact on resale value IMO. I think you are justified in getting yourself a decent loan car in the meantime, but beyond that you just have to accept that it was an accident and that shite happens.


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## The Silver Surfer

Sorry to hear about the damage to your car, Tim. It looks like a really nasty one.  Accidents do happen, unfortunately they are more likely to happen at a f*****g Audi Dealership!!!!! :evil: :twisted:

Did they manage to do the work your car originally went in for?

Hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction.

Regards


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## vlastan

Once a guy next to me had parked a 911 in a public car park to the UGC cinema in Ipswich (you know this place Tim). We were talking about our cars and the prospect of damage in public car parks and said, that if you can afford to pay 30-40-50k on a car, you can afford to repair a damage worth a few hudrend pounds.

In this case the damage will be fixed by others, so you are not out of pocket.

The only worry could be, what is the damage behind the bumper. The sharp object that penetrated the bumper, could have done more extensive damage that you may think. So you will have to see for yourself when the remove the bumper to make sure they do it right.


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## pas_55

:wink: Ah Hitchin Audi would'nt piss in their ear if their brain was on fire.Oh and they do not have their on body shop either


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## jampott

vlastan said:


> Once a guy next to me had parked a 911 in a public car park to the UGC cinema in Ipswich (you know this place Tim). We were talking about our cars and the prospect of damage in public car parks and said, that if you can afford to pay 30-40-50k on a car, you can afford to repair a damage worth a few hudrend pounds.
> 
> In this case the damage will be fixed by others, so you are not out of pocket.
> 
> The only worry could be, what is the damage behind the bumper. The sharp object that penetrated the bumper, could have done more extensive damage that you may think. So you will have to see for yourself when the remove the bumper to make sure they do it right.


Sorry Nick, I don't agree. I don't think I can afford to shell out hundreds of pounds to repair damage unnecessarily. Although it is being sorted out for me, I WILL be out of pocket, as the car will be worth less to a potential buyer. Repairs are always visible.

Crux of the matter appears to be who actually did the damage (and how it was caused)

Looking at it again, there does appear to be too much scraping (combined with that big puncture) to APPEAR to be a reversing accident - but I have to rely on what they are telling me.

Needless to say, I've demanded the full details of the 3rd party, including the details of the vehicle they were driving and the company it was registered to. I also need to know whether or not the person is an employee of Audi, as this has a huge bearing on the matter.

If I parked in a multi-storey carpark and the car got damaged, I'd obviously persue the driver NOT the carpark. I know Audi ultimately should have a greater degree of responsibility for my car than (say) an NCP would, but I do agree that (unless they were negligent in where they parked it) then my gripe really is with the driver of the other vehicle (if, indeed, there is one...) However - if this driver is an employee of Audi, they don't have a leg to stand on, and I will persue this with as much force as I can muster.

When the handbrake on my TT failed, it rolled downhill into a concrete pillar and was damaged in a similar place. This included scraping, scratches and a damaged rear cluster. No puncturing of the bumper and no ripping, so this has obviously been done with some force and a sharp object.

I wonder if they have any CCTV of the area?

I'm just waiting on a phonecall from the dealer. I need to know (now) whether or not they can fix it before my holiday - and if not, what they intend to do about this piece of shit A6. I'm not paying a penny to park it at Gatwick.

Hitchin have gone cool on this today, saying they'd pass my comments onto the 3rd party instead of taking them onboard themselves - thereby making matters worse already. If they don't reverse this in the phonecall I'm expeecting, I'll be straight onto Audi CS.


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## jonhaff

I know Audi St Albans scratched and dented quite a few too , they had so little room it was madness everytime you went down there.

Its a good job they are now closed and no longer here.


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## vlastan

If the damage is visible then you have grounds to argue that your car is now worth less. But if not, then all is fine.

Make this clear to them before they start the repair and sign an agreement so you have some evidence.


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## Wallsendmag

Dont you have to leave your details if you have an accident ? Have you been informed of the persons details ? I know haow you feel when mine was getting repaired they did more harm than good nothing on this scale though :?


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## jampott

wallsendmag said:


> Dont you have to leave your details if you have an accident ? Have you been informed of the persons details ? I know haow you feel when mine was getting repaired they did more harm than good nothing on this scale though :?


Oddly, they didn't provide me with the details of the 3rd party. Which is why I have demanded them.


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## garvin

Hitchin Audi ................ that's my nearest Audi dealer .................. which is why my car always goes to Bedford Audi ................ nuff said!


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## A3DFU

jampott said:


> Hitchin have gone cool on this today, saying they'd pass my comments onto the 3rd party instead of taking them onboard themselves - thereby making matters worse already. If they don't reverse this in the phonecall I'm expeecting, I'll be straight onto Audi CS.


If I were you, Tim, I wouldn't wait for Hitchin to reverse on this!! I would pass on Hitchin's comments to Audi CS straight away!!
This is an awful thing that happend to your car and they should have the decency to accept the blame as your car was in their posession at the time the damage was done. Full stop. No _ifs_ and _buts_!!!!!!!


----------



## clived

OT: Bedford Audi - any good? Slightly closer to me than Wayside in my Hitchin avoidance plan.


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## V6 TT

Holy shit Tim! Just found this...what a bunch of wankers - if yours can get hit imagine what care they've got for the lesser of the range!?

A new rear bumper and light required or does it start to effect the panel next to it? If it's replaceables it will be like new but if not then, well kick ass and take names!

Dean


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## garvin

clived said:


> OT: Bedford Audi - any good? Slightly closer to me than Wayside in my Hitchin avoidance plan.


OT : Bedford Audi have looked after my TTs for well over three years. Apart from having some trouble once in diagnosing a broken wire in a loom (admittedly an odd fault and difficult to diagnose) they have always looked after my cars and have never damaged them in any way - always returned ***** and span inside and out.

BOT : Third party ............. a dealer acting as some sort of broker with a 'third party' ............ yeah, right!!


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## pas_55

I for one have no idea about Bedford.However HR.Owen are opening up(an Audi dealers) in Hatfield soon.


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## jampott

pas_55 said:


> I for one have no idea about Bedford.However HR.Owen are opening up(an Audi dealers) in Hatfield soon.


Perhaps taking over the Porsche site which will be vacated later this year? New Porsche dealership currently under construction on the Business Park...


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## pas_55

:wink: Thats the one.I know some of the staff who are going there top blokes


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## DXN

Never gasped out load in disbelief before but I did just now when the thread pic opened to show that picture!. Sorry to see that Tim, I'm gutted for you.


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## Mayur

clived said:


> OT: Bedford Audi - any good? Slightly closer to me than Wayside in my Hitchin avoidance plan.


Bedford Audi are really very good. I could not praise them highly enough... I know its rare for an Audi dealer/ i suggest you talk to Phil the service manager and tell him about the troubles you've had and feel free to mention me. He knows me and he has looked after me well in the past.

BTW, my experience of HR Owen was not very nice.


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## t7

digimeisTTer said:


> t7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tim what a nightmare :x
> 
> What I'd go for :
> 
> 3. Demand compensation in cash for the value you estimate crash repairs have reduced your cars value. I'd say at least Â£2K - maybe more.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry i'm far from impressed with Audi at the mo' but you have to be reasonable, where does Â£2k come from?
> 
> It can be repaired.
Click to expand...

Clearly the Â£2K is an opening number for negotiations, but in the same situation my negotiations with the dealer would go as follows:

* I should be able to sell my car with zero financial impact to me as a result of this incident.
* When I sell my car it would likely be fully inspected by the purchaser (high value, prestige model). 
* The repair whilst invisible to "the average punter" would come to light under inspection and therefore I'd have no choice but to mention it up front. 
* If I was buying a prestige car of that value I'd want a pretty significant discount to incentivise me to buy this car vs a pristine non-repaired one. A significant discount is not Â£200 - think about it - how much cheaper would it need to be to tempt you? Thats why I reckon asking for a four figure sum is not unreasonable. Unless they can guarantee an "undetectable" repair.

Prob not worth the effort of going to court but would have thought it was a reasonable debate to take.

And of course if I pranged my car I'd have to take the chance that the repair would not be spotted but I don't see why Tim should have to take that risk when it wasn't his fault.

L


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## Dont I Recognise You

just catching up in here and came across this 

No extra advice to give you Tim, but felt I had to post up a 'gutted for you  ' reply.


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## Jazzedout

Any news on this Jambott?


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## jampott

Not yet... its been a long Bank Holiday weekend in the UK, and the last call I made was late on Thursday.

At this point, I still don't know how long it will take parts to arrive and when it can actually get fixed - but that's pretty much a moot point as far as I am concerned, as I'm flying on Friday AM for a 2 week break.

Hitchin Audi provided me with the details of the 3rd party, and have confirmed he isn't employed by Audi, but runs his own flatbed delivery / recovery business. I have contact numbers, but phoning up and screaming down the phone at 4am won't make things any better, so I'm taking the pragmatic view.

Under the circumstances, Audi are doing what could be expected. I have to see it from their point of view and, whilst they haven't even tried to tell me this, I do understand it probably wasn't their fault - in the same way you can't blame the council if someone crashes into your parked car on the street, or the NCP if someone crashes into it in a car park.

Having occured whilst in their "care" and on their premises, they've taken the lead in getting it fixed - but in hindsight, now I have the 3rd party details and know he isn't "Audi", I can't really blame them, can I?

I'm never quite sure whose insurance my car is under when at a dealer, and have a feeling the situation changes if I'm provided with a courtesy car (does it?) - but either way, its been dealt with 100% by the 3rd party's insurance company and repair can start this week.

I've now been without the car for a day or so short of 4 weeks - and I'm resigned to it being another 3 weeks before I'm back behind the wheel again. Something tells me 360bhp will never have felt so good.


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## garyc

Still never buying another Audi? :wink:

ps be mindful about the 3rd party's insurance cover - many policies only cover third parties to extent of the Road Traffic Act stipulations ie not for accidents occuring off the public highway or on private property.

Hitchin will still have to have mandatory public liability insurance and have a legal duty of care for cars entrusted to them - they probably top up with extended cover over and above legal requirement for such incidents.

It's the shag n hassle that you don't need. :x

Still 2 weeks in the sun....... 8)


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## Toshiba

I think this must be a SOP for all Audi dealers. My cars been damaged this week at west London Audi. The annoying part is the must have known they'd damaged my car, but did they bother telling me? No did they hell. Instead they wait for me to find it (a scratch on the rear bumper) and then say sorry sir - not sure how that happened - well I do, its coz you donâ€™t give a shit. Customer service - my arse.


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## brayboy

Sorry to hear about your bad news.

I had damage done to my car whilst in the care of an audi garage, and it took me ages before the car bas back to a standard that i was satisfied with, in all it had four trips to the paint shop to have the whole side resprayed.

After the third trip i phoned audi cs and they told me that it was a dealer problem and they couldnâ€™t help me as they are only there for manufacturing problems and also warranty work. to summarise, I donâ€™t think Audi cs will be of any help.

Hope you get it sorted.

Regarding the compensation, I had a letter from the service manager giving me money off my next service.

Dave Bray


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## Loz180

Think I am going to trade my TT for a Trabant. At least you get what you fucking pay for :?


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## vlastan

Loz180 said:


> Think I am going to trade my TT for a Trabant. At least you get what you fucking pay for :?


They don't make them any longer. :wink:


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## Loz180

vlastan said:


> Loz180 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Think I am going to trade my TT for a Trabant. At least you get what you fucking pay for :?
> 
> 
> 
> They don't make them any longer. :wink:
Click to expand...

But second hand they are still bargains and the customer service is nil. which is still better than Hitchin audi who are well sub zero!!

Next! 8)


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## A3DFU

Loz180 said:


> vlastan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loz180 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Think I am going to trade my TT for a Trabant. At least you get what you fucking pay for :?
> 
> 
> 
> They don't make them any longer. :wink:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But second hand they are still bargains and the customer service is nil. which is still better than Hitchin audi who are well sub zero!!
> 
> Next! 8)
Click to expand...

Plus, you can always compost the Trabbies when you've done with them: all card board and wood


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## dj c225

Is there any progress on this issue? or is jampott away in Mexico.


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## Loz180

dj c225 said:


> Is there any progress on this issue? or is jampott away in Mexico.


Progress is not a term Audi CS recognise, mate... :roll:


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## dj c225

Loz180 said:


> dj c225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any progress on this issue? or is jampott away in Mexico.
> 
> 
> 
> Progress is not a term Audi CS recognise, mate... :roll:
Click to expand...

DISAGREE!!!

Tomorrow once my car is returned to me, I will post a story in the TT section about how Audi have helped me out, this will suprise many!


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## Loz180

dj c225 said:


> Loz180 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dj c225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any progress on this issue? or is jampott away in Mexico.
> 
> 
> 
> Progress is not a term Audi CS recognise, mate... :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> DISAGREE!!!
> 
> Tomorrow once my car is returned to me, I will post a story in the TT section about how Audi have helped me out, this will suprise many!
Click to expand...

The fact that it will surprise many kinda detracts from your point a little I think... But I wait with baited breath... (altoids anyone?) :roll:


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## A3DFU

dj c225 said:


> Loz180 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dj c225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any progress on this issue? or is jampott away in Mexico.
> 
> 
> 
> Progress is not a term Audi CS recognise, mate... :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> DISAGREE!!!
Click to expand...

Agreed  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## dj c225

A3DFU said:


> dj c225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loz180 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dj c225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any progress on this issue? or is jampott away in Mexico.
> 
> 
> 
> Progress is not a term Audi CS recognise, mate... :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> DISAGREE!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Click to expand...

why are you agreeing? reasons


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## A3DFU

dj c225 said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dj c225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loz180 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dj c225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any progress on this issue? or is jampott away in Mexico.
> 
> 
> 
> Progress is not a term Audi CS recognise, mate... :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> DISAGREE!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why are you agreeing? reasons
Click to expand...

I agree with you that Audi CS do a lot of good things like:
replace fuel sender FOC on hubby's A6 when his car was out of warranty,
paying for a new dashpod on my car when mine was already out of warranty.
And that's only two examples where they been very, very good


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## Dubcat

I really hope you rip them a new one. I'm sick of Audi.. they make some lovely cars (yours is probably one of my all time favourite cars) but all the shit you get with it has made me question whether ill ever buy another audi again.

They delivered my brand new car with scratches on it.. since then they have changed 3 of my wheels. 2 had manufacturing faults and one was scratched by the dealer - who tried to claim it cuoldn't have been them since there are no kerbs on their forecourt.. muppet. Now i've got rust on the roof rack strip... when will it ever stop? I will definitely sell my car around the time it runs out of warranty because im scared my dash pod might go or some other expensive to replace part...

Normally I wouldn't even bother to make such a post but i'm really upset about the situation. I love my TT - it's an AWESOME car. I'd love to be able to keep it for 20 years or more because i honestly believe ill never get bored of its looks or the way it drives.. unfortunately the dealers (along with quality issues) have ensured i ain't got the bottle to hold on to it.

Like i said.. good luck getting it sorted. Please share what happens - some of us might learn a thing or two about how to deal with companies when in your situation.

Dub.


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## dj c225

A3DFU said:


> dj c225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dj c225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loz180 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dj c225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any progress on this issue? or is jampott away in Mexico.
> 
> 
> 
> Progress is not a term Audi CS recognise, mate... :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> DISAGREE!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why are you agreeing? reasons
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with you that Audi CS do a lot of good things like:
> replace fuel sender FOC on hubby's A6 when his car was out of warranty,
> paying for a new dashpod on my car when mine was already out of warranty.
> And that's only two examples where they been very, very good
Click to expand...

Dani,

Pretty good result! 

Will post mine soon, just haven't got the car back yet


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## A3DFU

dj c225 said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dj c225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dj c225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loz180 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dj c225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any progress on this issue? or is jampott away in Mexico.
> 
> 
> 
> Progress is not a term Audi CS recognise, mate... :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> DISAGREE!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why are you agreeing? reasons
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with you that Audi CS do a lot of good things like:
> replace fuel sender FOC on hubby's A6 when his car was out of warranty,
> paying for a new dashpod on my car when mine was already out of warranty.
> And that's only two examples where they been very, very good
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dani,
> 
> Pretty good result!
> 
> Will post mine soon, just haven't got the car back yet
Click to expand...

I'm intrigued what your story will be like, DJ, and I hope you'll get your car back soo


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## dj c225

Dani, result posted in tt-section


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## A3DFU

dj c225 said:


> Dani, result posted in tt-section


Will go and check


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## pas_55

dj c225 said:


> Is there any progress on this issue? or is jampott away in Mexico.


Hitchin Audi are using the car as a courtesy car so I guess he's still away :wink: :wink:


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## dj c225

pas_55 said:


> dj c225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any progress on this issue? or is jampott away in Mexico.
> 
> 
> 
> Hitchin Audi are using the car as a courtesy car so I guess he's still away :wink: :wink:
Click to expand...

 :lol:


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## jampott

Collected it yesterday, and I'm in despair...

1 - paint match is awful. Bumper very matt, bodywork very shiny...
2 - not all damage repaired - they've either not bothered to fix or failed to notice a series of scratches just above the replaced tail light
3 - the rear 12v socket they were supposed to fix won't power up
4 - the smaller section of the 60:40 seat wouldn't clip into place - had to fetch a mechanic to adjust it
5 - at speeds above 65mph the car now whistles, rather like an old fashioned kettle crossed with someone blowing over a milk bottle. I'm positive its not induction related, as it doesn't vary with engine load, RPM or throttle position - its the same whether accelerating or coasting - so I suspect its a dodgy seal somewhere, or a piece of loose engine trim causing reverberation. I tested it out on my long (private) drive and the noise is still there at 120mph.

Extremely unprofessional job, I'm sorry to say.

At least 2 or 3 different people have done work on the car, and all must have walked away thinking "yeah, that's a job well done..." - which is a SERIOUS misjudgement.

"Audi standards" my arse.

Snotty email sent to the Service Manager (she wasn't there when I collected it) and a phonecall to Audi CS is my next task.

The only plus - the throttle does feel better now that new software is on... The combination of Milltek and induction kit had increased both power and torque, but I felt it needed something to crisp it up a little. Whatever they've done is an improvement and it feels sharper - although how much of that is because I've spent 7 weeks without it, driving a 1.9 diesel instead, and have spent 2 weeks not driving ANYTHING at all, remains to be seen.

Overall, though, I'm gutted. How can a bodyshop not even NOTICE a patch of damage which is easily visible - and how on earth can mechanics walk away from a car having supposedly fixed something, yet leave it obviously not working (and with a new bit broken as well).


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## KevtoTTy

He's alive!!!!

Welcome home mate.

Looks like Audi just can't do bodywork repairs well these days.

Hope CS can help sort things out to your satisfaction.

Kev


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## jampott

Scratches easily visible... and quite a few of them.


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## davidg

That is bad


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## dj c225

Sorry to hear this.

Welcome back.

Guess Monday morning will be a busy one for you, take it easy and remember not to scream at anyone, just wont make a difference.

Good luck.
Tj


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## jampott

dj c225 said:


> Sorry to hear this.
> 
> Welcome back.
> 
> Guess Monday morning will be a busy one for you, take it easy and remember not to scream at anyone, just wont make a difference.
> 
> Good luck.
> Tj


I'm not the screaming type - isn't that obvious from my forum postings?  8)


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## dj c225

jampott said:


> dj c225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to hear this.
> 
> Welcome back.
> 
> Guess Monday morning will be a busy one for you, take it easy and remember not to scream at anyone, just wont make a difference.
> 
> Good luck.
> Tj
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not the screaming type - isn't that obvious from my forum postings?  8)
Click to expand...

Fair dos, nor am I usually, but when someone hurts my posessions i.e. girlfriend, car, business or flat, I tend to get pretty pissed off, especially if they keep calling me "sir" or giving standardised answers :evil:


----------



## Boba FeTT

dj c225 said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dj c225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to hear this.
> 
> Welcome back.
> 
> Guess Monday morning will be a busy one for you, take it easy and remember not to scream at anyone, just wont make a difference.
> 
> Good luck.
> Tj
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not the screaming type - isn't that obvious from my forum postings?  8)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fair dos, nor am I usually, but when someone hurts my posessions i.e. girlfriend, car, business or flat, I tend to get pretty pissed off, especially if they keep calling me "sir" or giving standardised answers :evil:
Click to expand...

So your girlfriend is a posession :lol: When ever we go into work the security guard always greets us with, how are you sir. Drives everyone mad!


----------



## dj c225

Theres one thing using sir politely.

But when they are blatently taking the piss and using it in an aggressive manner, then it becomes annoying.

As for the GF being a posession, you know what i mean


----------



## Loz180

Sorry to hear they let you down again, Jampott.

Hope you find a solution through Audi CS. Otherwise I guess you'll be looking for an E55 AMG Brabus ( 202mph ) I guess. Not that the CS at Merc is anything to write home about... :?

What about a cayenne. Porkie CS is pretty good. at JCT Brooklands anyway. and there are GREAT Ex Porkie specialists to look after you at less than Â£70 per hour Labour...


----------



## jampott

Loz180 said:


> Sorry to hear they let you down again, Jampott.
> 
> Hope you find a solution through Audi CS. Otherwise I guess you'll be looking for an E55 AMG Brabus ( 202mph ) I guess. Not that the CS at Merc is anything to write home about... :?
> 
> What about a cayenne. Porkie CS is pretty good. at JCT Brooklands anyway. and there are GREAT Ex Porkie specialists to look after you at less than Â£70 per hour Labour...


CS tell me to give the dealer another chance, so that's whats happening. I've been offered an A8 to tool around with for a bit. Lovely though I'm sure it is, its bugger all use to someone who needs to transport 2 lively Dalmatians... 

I'm just amazed that, despite having a "can-do" attitude (the Service Manager has actually been helpful, flexible and pretty good) the actual finished product is so poor. Someone, somewhere needed to take responsibility and NOTICE the car wasn't fixed before attempting to give it back to me. When you deal with a bodyshop directly, you learn to accept the need to send it back - but in this case, with Audi handling it for me, there is NO excuse for the car to be returned in such a state...


----------



## Kell

That's shocking...

It was bad enough when I picked up the TT after it had been repaired and noticed that the spoiler they quoted (and charged) the insurance company to remove and fit a new one still had the chip in it that happened before I crashed it.

Now that's attention to detail. Noticing that my old spoiler had a chip in it, removing it, replacing it with a new part and then putting a chip in exactly the same place.

That's what must have happened, I mean they wouldn't have just not done it would they... :roll:


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## Private Prozac

I'd fucking hand it back and ask for a cheque for full value or a new car.

You'll never look at it in the same way and there will always be bits that niggle you now.

Tell them to go and take the twin pipes and shove it up their arses!


----------



## jampott

auditt260bhp said:


> I'd fucking hand it back and ask for a cheque for full value or a new car.
> 
> You'll never look at it in the same way and there will always be bits that niggle you now.
> 
> Tell them to go and take the twin pipes and shove it up their arses!


Sod that! I'm happy for them to shove the CAR up their arse. I'll keep the Milltek, thanks!

My last 3 (actually, 4!) cars have been damaged and repaired (to varying degrees) but it didn't really knock the shine off them, so I'm not *that* bothered providing I get it back fixed PROPERLY...

Seriously, I don't have that sort of option. Luckily (for them) the damage wasn't caused by Audi, and although my car was under their care, it is the 3rd party insurance picking up the tab - whilst I wouldn't accept anything less than Audi taking complete control, I guess they do so out of courtesy not legal obligation. I can't prove they were negligent in where my car was left, and have no reason to believe it was anything other than an unfortunate accident which (in the short term) is nearly as much of a nightmare for them as for me.

What I can't understand is why, having talked the talk, they aren't walking the walk. I can't understand how they thought I'd accept it back in such a state, so either their Quality Control checks are fucking useless or they haven't even had the common courtesy to check things were OK before returning it. They've had more than 3 weeks to fix the damage, so why *I* have to point out the defects is a complete mystery. To think a customer would accept that work would be arrogant and a serious misjudgement. If, on the other hand, they simply haven't noticed... well that's just plain fucking ignorant.


----------



## L7

WTF these bodyshops are playing at i don't know, audi approved means nothing in terms of quality as.................

No 1. Allroad rear quarter panel and bumper damaged + cracked light lens.

Result....... when collecting the car quality control manager say's lovely finish sir isn't it ?

Me: wait a second and i'll tell you...actually NO

Him: what's wrong

Me: oh lets see i've been looking at it for less than a minute can you not spot it

Him: more intense looking er no........

well to cut a bloody long story short they had

1. resprayed rear bumper met black same colour as rest of car when it should have the matt black finish same as the roof/wheel arches/front bumper.
2. rear light cluster totally different honeycomb pattern to other side.

3. really crap finish on the actual bodywork repair, i could see the line where it went from metal to filler !!

And the *Quality control manager* couldn't spot fuck all of it until i went around with him pointing each bit out to him with him then saying ohhhh yeahhh i see it now you mention it [smiley=bomb.gif]

quite frankly stevie wonder would have been more use.

So Jampott if i were you i would do some research and find the best bodyshop money can buy and make them keep paying until your 100% because there are places out there that repair the Top Marques and rebuild old astons etc and they seem to be able to pull it off.


----------



## pas_55

:wink: Who did the work?Last year after I hit a deer I phoned Hitchin to find a local Audi approved body shop,guess what they did not know one I had to phone Milton Keynes to get a phone number!!


----------



## Kell

pas_55 said:


> :wink: Who did the work?Last year after I hit a dear I phoned Hitchin to find a local Audi approved body shop,guess what they did not know one I had to phone Milton Keynes to get a phone number!!


Was it an old dear?


----------



## Jazzedout

Kell said:


> pas_55 said:
> 
> 
> 
> :wink: Who did the work?Last year after I hit a dear I phoned Hitchin to find a local Audi approved body shop,guess what they did not know one I had to phone Milton Keynes to get a phone number!!
> 
> 
> 
> Was it an old dear?
Click to expand...


----------



## Loz180

bloody hell. its only a car.

[Loz lights the blue touch paper and stands well back....] :twisted:


----------

