# How can a 270bhp TT beat an m3 if an RS6 cant?



## M3sly (Aug 26, 2005)

As an m3 owner i just thought id share a few facts, in light of 'silly' claims that TT's stand a chance against an m3. An RS6 is no quicker than an m3 so unless your TT's can take out rs6's (which i doubt) just a little info....

RS6 Saloon times (regular 450HP):

http://www.einszweidrei.de/audi/rs62002-1.htm

Test in sport auto 9/2002 
Gewicht 1908 kg 
0 - 80 km/h 3,6 s 
0 - 100 km/h 4,9 s 
0 - 120 km/h 6,7 s 
0 - 130 km/h - s 
0 - 140 km/h 9,1 s 
0 - 160 km/h 11,3 s 
0 - 180 km/h 15,0 s 
0 - 200 km/h 18,7 s

RS6 Avant plus times (RS6 plus has 480 HP...30 more HP than the normal RS6's do):

http://www.einszweidrei.de/audi/rs6plus2004-2.htm

Test in sport auto 07/2004 
Gewicht 1984 kg 
0 - 80 km/h 3,6 s 
0 - 100 km/h 4,9 s 
0 - 120 km/h 6,7 s 
0 - 130 km/h - s 
0 - 140 km/h 8,6 s 
0 - 160 km/h 10,7 s 
0 - 180 km/h 14,0 s 
0 - 200 km/h 17,8 s

http://www.einszweidrei.de/audi/rs6plus2004-1.htm

Test in ams 12/2004 
Gewicht 1991 kg 
0 - 80 km/h 3,2 s 
0 - 100 km/h 4,6 s 
0 - 120 km/h 6,3 s 
0 - 130 km/h 7,3 s 
0 - 140 km/h 8,3 s 
0 - 160 km/h 10,5 s 
0 - 180 km/h 14,2 s 
0 - 200 km/h 18,0 s

Here's a 500HP, tuned RS6:

http://www.einszweidrei.de/audi/rs6wimmer2002-1.htm

Test in sport auto 12/2002 
Gewicht 1976 kg 
0 - 80 km/h 3,5 s 
0 - 100 km/h 4,7 s 
0 - 120 km/h 6,5 s 
0 - 140 km/h 8,7 s 
0 - 160 km/h 10,7 s 
0 - 180 km/h 14,3 s 
0 - 200 km/h 17,6 s

OK, so 0-200km/h (124mph) we have a few cars to get sample times from. I get:

18.7 RS6 saloon
17.8 RS6 (480HP)
18.0 RS6 (480HP)
17.6 RS6 (500HP)

That's an average of 18.025 secs for the 0-124 mph sprint (from a stop) for the RS6's....one of them identical in HP to the normal RS6's, two of them with 30 more HP than the normal RS6's, and one of them with 50 more HP than the normal RS6's!

Here are some M3's tested by the same mags at the same place, etc:

M3 times:

http://www.einszweidrei.de/bmw/m32003-2.htm

Test in ams 1/2003 
Gewicht 1570 kg 
0 - 80 km/h 3,5 s 
0 - 100 km/h 4,8 s 
0 - 120 km/h 6,5 s 
0 - 140 km/h 8,5 s 
0 - 160 km/h 10,9 s 
0 - 180 km/h 13,7 s 
0 - 200 km/h 16,8 s

http://www.einszweidrei.de/bmw/m3e462005-1.htm

Test in sport auto 01/2005 
Gewicht 1565 kg 
0 - 80 km/h 3,5 s 
0 - 100 km/h 4,8 s 
0 - 120 km/h 6,6 s 
0 - 130 km/h - s 
0 - 140 km/h 8,6 s 
0 - 160 km/h 11,0 s 
0 - 180 km/h 13,9 s 
0 - 200 km/h 17,6 s

http://www.einszweidrei.de/bmw/m32003-1.htm

Test in sport auto 3/2003 
Gewicht 1578 kg 
0 - 80 km/h 3,7 s 
0 - 100 km/h 5,0 s 
0 - 120 km/h 6,7 s 
0 - 140 km/h 8,6 s 
0 - 160 km/h 11,4 s 
0 - 180 km/h 13,8 s 
0 - 200 km/h 17,9 s

http://www.einszweidrei.de/bmw/m32002-1.htm

Test in sport auto 12/2002 
Gewicht 1559 kg 
0 - 80 km/h 4,0 s 
0 - 100 km/h 5,2 s 
0 - 120 km/h 7,1 s 
0 - 140 km/h 9,0 s 
0 - 160 km/h 11,6 s 
0 - 180 km/h 14,8 s 
0 - 200 km/h 18,6 s

16.8
17.6
17.9
18.6

Avg = 17.725 seconds.

So on average, stock M3's are faster 0-124 from a stop than RS6's & RS6 +'s.

-Average stock M3, 0-124 mph: 17.725
-Average RS6, 0-124 mph (3 of the cars making 480 or more hp): 18.025

A difference of 0.3 seconds in favour of the M3.

*Now...to break it down even more, here are the times from 100 - 200 kph (62-124 mph) for both cars. This will show which car pulls harder at speed (from a roll):

RS6's:
13.8
12.9
13.4
12.9

Average RS6, 62-124 mph (100-20kph): 13.25 seconds

M3's:
12.0
12.8
12.9
13.4

Average M3, 62-124 mph (100-200 kph): 12.775 seconds

A difference of 0.475 seconds.

*This shows how much stronger the average stock M3 is from a roll then even modified RS6's.

AND.....here are some videos:

First video:

http://x400.putfile.com/videos/c5-17711153310.mpg

Two more videos. Totally different cars and drivers than in the first video:

M3 as camera car: http://x400.putfile.com/videos/c3-17711035827.avi
RS6 as camera car: http://x400.putfile.com/videos/a9-17711202622.avi


----------



## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Got any figures for the TT? :lol:


----------



## Wak (May 6, 2002)

if we go on Red while you wait for Green..... :wink:


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

What a lovely other marques thread 

Thing is, in the real world, side by side at Santa Pod, my 535d is only 0.1s slower to 1/4 mile than an SMG M3. Probably not what the "performance figures" would tell you. In the real world, where cars aren't being abused by professional test drivers, in ideal conditions, with next to no fluids onboard, surprising things can happen.... and then be repeated, or not, next time you try.


----------



## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Why has this been moved? Its a TT topic, as denoted by the letters "TT" in the feckin' title!

Jesus wept...


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

M3 Sly - are you free on Sept 4th - http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... hp?t=45642 - be interesting to try out your theories on modded RS6's.


----------



## robertroe (Jun 30, 2005)

Wow 0-124kmph is 0.3 seconds faster in an M3 than a RS6! Thats light years 

Thanks for the extensive post but dont think anyone really thinks that a TT could beat an M3 in a straight race with same driver etc... weren't people last night just saying that the did happen to beat one particular M3 in one particular set of circumstances?


----------



## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

I've seen a S4 piss all over a M3 round a track. Cant remember what program it was on but even though the M3 was quicker in a straight line the S4 was 2 seconds quicker round the track


----------



## M3sly (Aug 26, 2005)

Its not really theory though, its more fact.


----------



## M3sly (Aug 26, 2005)

genocidalduck said:


> I've seen a S4 piss all over a M3 round a track. Cant remember what program it was on but even though the M3 was quicker in a straight line the S4 was 2 seconds quicker round the track


Prolly right mate. Bet it was Topgear or something that is usually fixed. Your bound to get the odd random outcome, but if you look at most magazine tests etc an m3 is nearly always a fair bit quicker than an s4 around any given track.


----------



## Wak (May 6, 2002)

Aww come on guys, this was a good one for the main forum, good old TT m3 debate?

never had other similar ones moved before!? put it back.


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

Nope, still can't see any TT *content* in the post....

So, you coming to Santa Pod M3?


----------



## sonicmonkey (Mar 20, 2004)

M3 vs TT? Different breed of cars.(*)

You'd have to mod the bollox off a TT to try and keep up with a *standard* M3 and even then, with the right driver behind the wheel you would have a challenge and a half on your hands.

Some of the delusional arguments beggar belief and frankly I find them reduandant. It would be so much quicker (and safer _possibily_ ) to whip 'em and compare.

(*) Just to make super duper clear - the TT stands no chance IMO.


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

M3sly said:


> As an m3 owner i just thought id share a few facts, in light of 'silly' claims that TT's stand a chance against an m3. An RS6 is no quicker than an m3 so unless your TT's can take out rs6's (which i doubt) just a little info....
> 
> RS6 Saloon times (regular 450HP):
> 
> ...


Taken me a while to post as i had to wait until i stopped laughing. If you're dispelling the TT faster than M3 claims, due to the M3 having 100BHP more, then i guess that fact an RS6 has 115BHP more than the M3 kinda kills your point.

You post making a point to rebute claims from certain TT owners that their car may perhaps be quicker in real world experiences than an M3 & ridicule this claim by stating that an M3 is quicker than an RS6. :lol: :lol: The only situation where an M3 can take the edge against an RS6, would be on a track (overall lap-times) & that would be limited to a CSL being very well driven. All point to point drag times are quicker in an RS6 than any M3.

To factualise a little, i've never had an M3 come close to matching the performance of my car, either modded or back when she was stock. The power gain is too great & the torque difference is huge in favour of the RS6. The tests you're quoting!! what makes them any better that TopGear, Autocar or What Car?? Fact is on paper & according to the respective manufacturers, the RS6 is almost a whole second quicker to 60 & about 1.5 seconds quicker to 100. The RS6 weights quoted on the test you show are about 100KG too heavy, as a standrad saloon is about 1830KG.

This kind of debate does make me laugh, but if the only way to prove you're wrong is to humiliate you, then please come down to Santa Pod, as per Clive's invitation & see how silly you look. (please please please)


----------



## M3sly (Aug 26, 2005)

> Taken me a while to post as i had to wait until i stopped laughing. If you're dispelling the TT faster than M3 claims, due to the M3 having 100BHP more, then i guess that fact an RS6 has 115BHP more than the M3 kinda kills your point.
> 
> You post making a point to rebute claims from certain TT owners that their car may perhaps be quicker in real world experiences than an M3 & ridicule this claim by stating that an M3 is quicker than an RS6. :lol: :lol: The only situation where an M3 can take the edge against an RS6, would be on a track (overall lap-times) & that would be limited to a CSL being very well driven. All point to point drag times are quicker in an RS6 than any M3.
> 
> ...


Ok, so ive provided you with much PROVEN data from a number of unbiased sources that proves you wrong, so then you turn around and laugh at this and have nothing to back up your arguement besides 'i think its quicker so it is gag'. Find me a few full acceleration runs that prove otherwise please....

The RS6 is a nice car but a heavy pig. It loses its 100bhp advantage through its 4wd system, auto box and weight, so that doesnt kill my arguement one bit. Also, it has to be the slowest 450bhp car in existence. If you care to compare it to say the equivelant e55 amg or something then this would tear up both an m3 and an RS6. Granted in a 1/4 mile race the launch of an rs6 off the line would be difficult to pull back in an m3 but once rolling an m3 is quicker period. You need to learn a little about cars mate :wink:


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

M3sly said:


> You need to learn a little about cars mate :wink:


So you'll be coming to Santa Pod to teach us that lesson then? :wink:

P.S. Hope you don't mind but I've tidied up your post as you didn't seem to have the hang of the quotation system, just to make it easier to follow.


----------



## raven (May 7, 2002)

Excellent. These sorts of posts are the Forum at its best! Sounds like you both agree though that whilst the RS6 is quicker in a straight line, the M3 will beat it around a track.

On a general note though, who gives a shit? Both cars are seriously nice bits of kit, albeit very different pieces of kit.

Out of interest (and I really do mean that, cos I don't care either way other than I am just interested), how does a 997 Carrera S do at these sorts of track events? :?:


----------



## dee (Jun 3, 2005)

clived said:


> M3sly said:
> 
> 
> > You need to learn a little about cars mate :wink:
> ...


Clive leave him alone... obviously his dad wont let him take the car further than the MacD's in the Hight Street.... :lol: he's probably not even old enough to drive, he's just got a few max powers in the bedroom with pages stuck together :roll:


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

M3sly said:


> > Taken me a while to post as i had to wait until i stopped laughing. If you're dispelling the TT faster than M3 claims, due to the M3 having 100BHP more, then i guess that fact an RS6 has 115BHP more than the M3 kinda kills your point.
> >
> > You post making a point to rebute claims from certain TT owners that their car may perhaps be quicker in real world experiences than an M3 & ridicule this claim by stating that an M3 is quicker than an RS6. :lol: :lol: The only situation where an M3 can take the edge against an RS6, would be on a track (overall lap-times) & that would be limited to a CSL being very well driven. All point to point drag times are quicker in an RS6 than any M3.
> >
> ...


You're so full of shit newbie.

Try a google search & you'll find that the RS6 out performs an E55 in virtually every test available.

I'll side by side any test with your car (assuming you even have an M3 :lol: ) anytime. As invited, come along to Santa Pod & we'll even try a rolling start if you think that gives you an outside chance.

The side by side comparison you give is laughable & as i've been side by side with many a more powerful & exotic car than a Bimmer M3, my argument is based on fact. In gear & standing start acceleration is far superior in a standard RS6 that an M3.

As stated in my previous thread, an M3 CSL would defo have the edge time wise round any track, but again in real world the difference is more marginal. Against a standard M3, it's only a possible driver advantage that would win on a track but real world & in gear sprints, the RS6 would cane an M3 & i've proved this on more than one occasion.

Their are quite a few track biased track cars that could smother an RS6 as regards track times, but they would certainly not be so keen at a sprint off.

You're more than welcome to quote one article in one magazine, but before you play at knowing about cars, try checking other articles (many of them) & you'll find that you're talking bollocks.

Please come along to Santa Pod or even better come over to The Ring in a couple of weeks & put your money where your mouth is. I'll gladly take you on as i have on track with other M3's & many better performing motors.


----------



## nutts (May 8, 2002)

I think the old airfield and timing equipment would work well :roll:

Get Rob along with his CSL, Clive in his TT, Paul along in his RS6 and M3Sly. Should be a good day out


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

nutts said:


> I think the old airfield and timing equipment would work well :roll:
> 
> Get Rob along with his CSL, Clive in his TT, Paul along in his RS6 and M3Sly. Should be a good day out


I'm salivating at the thought


----------



## M3sly (Aug 26, 2005)

> You're so full of shit newbie.
> 
> Try a google search & you'll find that the RS6 out performs an E55 in virtually every test available.
> 
> ...


 :lol: If you think that you will even keep up with an e55 amg then you are in a dream world. I have seen so many road tests that prove otherwise but cant be bothered to find them. RS6's trap about 106-7mph in the 1/4 mile as does an m3. E55 amg's trap about 117-118mph which, seeing as you find these claims hard to believe, is ALOT. Basically any supercharged amg will drop an m3 and rs6 no probs. If you dont believe me, try it- preferably with a driver that is trying. If you want me to find you more proof then i will, as unlike you i have data AND VIDEOS to back my claims up, which you obviously dont. I appreciate Clives offer by the way (cheers clive) and i will consider it.

_[edit]
I've inserted quotes for easy reading.

M3SLY - it's not difficult to click the 'quote' button. :?

//Scotty
[/edit]_


----------



## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

M3sly said:


> I appreciate Clives offer by the way (cheers clive) and i will consider it.


Thats a no then :roll: 

I've driven both cars, admitably the M3 was old shape Beemer, but i would still have the RS6 if it wasnt for the price tag and the fact for that money i could get a true sports car rather than a saloon it would be the car for me.

Oh BTW my lil TT would chew both you guys up and spit yas out. I'd laugh at your lack of speed, Handling and driving ability!

Dont bother asking me to Santa Pod i tihnk my grannies goldfish will be dieing about that time and i wont be able to make it  :wink:


----------



## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

Stig's times! thought i'd add the TT V6. That episode the S4 and M3 were done on the same day.......The TT was done in a blizzard, thats why its time is abit down :lol: :lol: :lol:

38 Audi S4 1.30.9 
39 Porsche 911 turbo 1.31.0 
40 Vauxhall VX 220 turbo 1.31.3 
41 Honda NSX Type R 1.31.6 
42 Mazda RX8 1.31.8 
43 Nissan 350Z 1.31.8 
44 BMW M3 1.31.8 
45 Ford Focus RS 1.32.2 
46 Lotus Esprit V8 1.32.5 
47 Audi TT V6 1.32.7


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Yes, yes, yes. :roll: But who has the largest cock?


----------



## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

garyc said:


> Yes, yes, yes. :roll: But who has the largest cock?


That would be me..........But sorry im homophobic so i aint gunna show ya


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

M3sly said:


> I appreciate Clives offer by the way (cheers clive) and i will consider it.


Come along - it'll be a good day.  Drop me an IM if you need more details.


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

M3sly said:


> > You're so full of shit newbie.
> >
> > Try a google search & you'll find that the RS6 out performs an E55 in virtually every test available.
> >
> ...


Well you obviously read different articles to me. As i said, do a Google & you'll find many side by side tests between the E55 & RS6 & you'll find that in most their is very little between them. Some favour the E55 but most favour the RS6 altough the margin is very narrow.

It's laughable that you still think an M3 will pull the same 1/4mile as an RS6. Look at the manufacturers stats, the RS6 would walk it & against an E55 it would be very close & i believe reaction times would play the biggest part. Again, look at the manufacturers own data.

Perhaps as your initial thread was to dismiss the claim that a TT beat an M3 is backfiring, as you may well have seen an E55 beat an RS6 on a drag strip & i bet many have seen the opposite, I don't doubt that you've seen an E55 beat an RS6, but then it appears that a TT has beaten an M3. It's all a little fruitless really, as i have real world experience at events such as VMAX where my lowly little RS6 crushed some far healthier competition that M3's & E55's. Like i said, my experiences are factual, not reported as perhaps yours appear to be.

Come along to the Ring in a couple of weeks or better still to Santa Pod & you'll no doubt be eating at least some of your words. Will be at least 2 TT's their that will crush an M3 all day & even my RS6 will have to push hard. You could even get pipped by a diesel.

Now you're entitled to your opinion & you're welcome to it, as i am to my opinion. So lets call it a draw & if you fancy a head to head then just ask.


----------



## aidb (Mar 19, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> my lowly little RS6


  :lol: :wink:


----------



## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

I lapped Castle Combe in my TT quicker than a guy in his M3. Does this mean my TT was the faster car? At that time and place I managed to make it go faster but on a motorway etc it'd have been different.

There are always these odd things that happen.

I was once sitting at a roundabout after flying down the M11 with an M3 (me being in my S4). We'd both been pushing on. He was in the inside lane and I was in the outside lane. A smart car got us both from the middle lane!

Does that mean a smart car is faster than an M3 and a Stage 3 S4? It did on that occasion! :lol:


----------



## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

I am wondering whether "M3sly" and "111R" are brothers :roll:


----------



## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

nutts said:


> I think the old airfield and timing equipment would work well :roll:
> 
> Get Rob along with his CSL, Clive in his TT, Paul along in his RS6 and M3Sly. Should be a good day out


can i come too?


----------



## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

I'd love to go to Santa Pod on Sunday (especially as I now have the CSL on its rightful super-sticky Michelin Cup tyres) but it looks like domestic stuff will preclude it.

If someone is happy to organise an airfield dragstrip against the clock, I'd definitely be up for that.


----------



## Dr_Parmar (May 10, 2002)

Mine's bigger than yours?!! booring!

But if u want some fun, I'll bring the porker to santa pod as well, we can have some fun, Mr M3 man!

But im not racing the beast :-*


----------



## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Doc - What spec is your Porker?


----------



## Dr_Parmar (May 10, 2002)

hiya scotty,

you mean as in optional equipment?


----------



## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> I'll gladly take you on as i have on track with other M3's & many better performing motors.


I was under the impression that racing wasn't allowed on track days :roll: :wink:


----------



## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

No Doc - I mean Carrera2, 4, etc


----------



## Dr_Parmar (May 10, 2002)

ooh hehe,

she is a plain ole humble Carrera 2


----------



## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

OK so 0-62 in 5.0secs

The M3 is 5.2secs.

I was just wondering how close it would be if he turned up. :wink:


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Carlos said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > I'll gladly take you on as i have on track with other M3's & many better performing motors.
> ...


Carlos,

I was indicating at the last VMAX i attended. Although it's more about max terminal speed than handling, you do run side by side from the start point, drag run down to the 1st bend which is 180 degrees, then up the long runway. Had many cars run alongside, but only 1 managed to hit the long runway ahead of me & that was a mental RUF which also won the day with a terminal of 196MPH.


----------



## Dr_Parmar (May 10, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> OK so 0-62 in 5.0secs
> 
> The M3 is 5.2secs.
> 
> I was just wondering how close it would be if he turned up. :wink:


Not much in it thou, obviously my super quick lightning response time will help a great deal :roll:


----------



## BreTT (Oct 30, 2002)

I've got an idea - give me a head start down the track and I'll video the race through the open tailgate. To make it a little more interesting, I could chuck debris out the boot and the racers can see how their cars really handle.

garyc does have a point though, what we REALLY want to know is who has the biggest dick.


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

BreTT said:


> garyc does have a point though, what we REALLY want to know is who has the biggest dick.


Shall we vote based on the posturing, preening and strutting? :idea:


----------



## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Wheel size isn't a bad start. :wink:

But then it simply turns in to a game of Top Trumps!


----------



## nutts (May 8, 2002)

caney said:


> nutts said:
> 
> 
> > I think the old airfield and timing equipment would work well :roll:
> ...


Well as the "track" wouldn't have bends, it might suit you :wink:  but then again... isn't Nitrous cheating 

The more the merrier I say!!


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

nutts said:


> caney said:
> 
> 
> > nutts said:
> ...


ROFL. :lol: Of course the non bendy track will still be a driving challenge :wink:


----------

