# Apple ease of use



## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Apple products, frustrating aren't they?

My step sister's was bought an iPod for a present - great. She's now cool. Being of the age that views computers as just a thing to get to Facebook she called for me to help her install iTunes. It had to be iTunes.

Install... "But I don't want QuickTime!".
"You've got to, Apple insist"

Plug in...
"No! Don't wipe it"

She had spent the whole previous day at her Dad's setting up her music on his computer. She was now at her Mum's with her own laptop and wanted to put on all the rest of her music. Ah of course, Apple's legendary ease of use. Poor lass now has to get a USB drive and go back to her Dad's and copy all that music so she can get it onto her iPod. I await the fun of not being able to move it because Apple's ease of use has DRM protected all the music so she can't transfer it.

Happy days.


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## BLinky (Jul 3, 2009)

you dont have to use Itunes you know.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

BLinky said:


> you dont have to use Itunes you know.


Shhhhh... You'll ruin his rant.


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## davelincs (Jan 1, 2010)

Spandex said:


> BLinky said:
> 
> 
> > you dont have to use Itunes you know.
> ...


 :lol: :lol:


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## richieshore (May 17, 2010)

If you took the music from CD's then it wont be DRM'd, also you can add music from any iTunes to an iPod and you can also copy the music from an iPod onto a pc and then into iTunes with no need for memory sticks. :wink:


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

I know I can do all this, but then I'm semi-computer literate. And this is exactly my point. Apple keeps getting lauded as being producers of great software that any retard can use. This is simply not true. My average consumer here would not have the first idea how to side-load things into the iPod, or that other software was allowed (even if told you don't have to use iTunes).


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Dash said:


> great software that any retard can use.


I think you might be confusing "ease of use" with "working miracles".


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

That could be a new marketing slogan "Apple , built for retards"


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Spandex said:


> Dash said:
> 
> 
> > great software that any retard can use.
> ...


But it shouldn't be. There is no reason to make things so complicated. Everybody does it, but I'm not entirely sure why.

First lets clarify, I don't actually mean retard, I mean somebody who hasn't any interest or much exposure to computers.

I was thinking this the other day as I installed some software on my computer. I only knew where to find it because I know the perverse way computers work. For those of you with Windows, how big is your start menu? How many sub-menus do you have, and how full are these with things that you will never click?

The only way forward is Linux I tell you - just now if everybody would port their software for me :?


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Dash said:


> But it shouldn't be. There is no reason to make things so complicated. Everybody does it, but I'm not entirely sure why.
> 
> First lets clarify, I don't actually mean retard, I mean somebody who hasn't any interest or much exposure to computers.
> 
> ...


It's unfortunate that Apple have to lock their iPods to a single computer (I'm sure they'd be over the moon if they didn't have to) but it doesn't affect ease of use for most the time you're using the iPod. If my mum wanted an MP3 player, I know I could leave her with an iPod and she'd just figure it out eventually. Even if I had to say to her beforehand "you can only use it with one machine", I'd still class that as a pretty minimal set of instructions needed to use a gadget like that.

As for Linux, you've lost me there. It is widely accepted as the least user-friendly OS you can put on your computer (and I speak from many years of personal experience). Even my Linux-evangelist friends admit that if there's one area it loses out on, it's ease of use. I'm no lover of Windows, but even that's better than Linux.


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## richieshore (May 17, 2010)

I can't stand Linux, just seemed like a slightly shitter, more confusing windows 95 to me! I have a small netbook running a very stripped out version of windows that I've given to my girlfriend and the start menu only has 1 page with about 3 menus! 

Mac is the only way to go! Everything is so simple, I spent about 20 minutes not long after getting mine trying to work out how to uninstall a program only to find out that I just had to put it in the bin!


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## ScoobyTT (Aug 24, 2009)

Spandex said:


> It's unfortunate that Apple have to lock their iPods to a single computer (I'm sure they'd be over the moon if they didn't have to) but it doesn't affect ease of use for most the time you're using the iPod. If my mum wanted an MP3 player, I know I could leave her with an iPod and she'd just figure it out eventually.


Unfortunate? It's fucking stupid. Why lock it at all? It's a bigger pain in the jacksy than Sony's DRM which royally pissed people off.

Eventually? What happened to:
1) plug in device, open folder when prompted
2) Drag music onto it
3) Happy days!
?

Apple's reputation for ease of use is a complete myth. I've lost count of the number of Appletards who wind up complaining within earshot about what a pain in the arse their "easy to use" brick is or how doing something or other cocked it all up to they had to reconfigure the whole thing from scratch again. And yet still, like abused people they overlook that they're getting regularly done over because of the "good times" and because they're "cool" because of their ownership of said product. :roll: I've given up helping people who bring their iShit to me because I'm "techy" therefore I can make it work for them. Sorry, but if it's so easy, figure it out, or vote with your feet and buy something on more considered factors than "it's shiny and everyone else has got one". :lol:

And now Apple are in bed with News Corp. it's just another reason to give them a miss. 
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/15 ... crackdown/


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## richieshore (May 17, 2010)

It's easy to unlock iTunes so you can use full functionality on every computer in a household, although I'm sure that if you're just copying music across (yeah you have to use iTunes) that you can just drag it across regardless of computer?

Maybe I'm just lucky but I've never had a single problem with any apple product and have 2 iPods, am on my 2nd iPhone, a MacBook, iMac and mac mini. Everyone is as good as it was on the day of purchase. For that reason I'll never buy anything but apple again!


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

ScoobyTT said:


> Unfortunate? It's fucking stupid. Why lock it at all?


Because the record labels insist on stupid things like this and Apple are one of the few MP3 player manufacturers who also run a music store, so they have to keep labels happy (ish). Did you actually think Apple chose to lock their player to one computer, or chose to apply DRM?? :?


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

7Digital happily supply me with DRM-free music.

Apple products wouldn't be a problem for most people on this forum, but then nor would any other product. The fact we're on a forum instantly increases our computer literacy a few notches.

I've had a couple of Mac related issues recently. Most relevant - my partner's parents trying to copy some music onto a USB stick from somebody's Macbook (no iTunes/DRM issues here, user was wise enough not to pay the Apple tax on the MP3 player, just has the Mac for work). The instructions were simple - put stick in computer, find stick icon next to other computer drive icons; find music folder and drag everything across. It took them the best part of an hour to figure this all out - nobody could help them because it just didn't follow the conventions of other computers (i.e. Windows, as that's all everybody else knew, apart from the owner of said laptop who was on the other side of the world at the time).

For reasons like this I recommend people buy what they are used to. The Mac vs Windows debate is null and void if you have any experience in either platform. If you're a new comer to computers then you can pay attention the the debate (Mac's are expensive but "easier to use", Windows is cheaper and most of the world seem to get on fine with it).

But it does highlight that they are not especially easy to use, and definitely not as easy to use as they should be (still not saying Windows is easy to use to a newbie though).

I'll defend the Linux statement too. I gave another one of my step-sisters a computer running Ubuntu (arguably one of the more user-friendly Linux distributions) and set her off. This worked seamlessly with her iPod and her camera, she could do all the things that she wanted to and I never had her asking for help. She's now gone to uni with a MacBook Pro (sold to her cheap by a friend who couldn't be arsed with keep having to remember "obscure" Apple way of doing things when he was used to Windows) - I've had nothing but call after call asking how to do things. Not that I can help, I haven't got the first clue on where things are stashed on a Mac. I can muddle by in-front of one ok, but not from memory. She lands up having to ask one of the tech-support kids (we're all doomed).

Things should be obvious no matter the OS. I put it to you that from a new-comers point of view, Ubuntu is the closest to that (assuming that you it's come pre-installed, and we're not talking about the realistic point of software isn't prevalent for it (we could say the same about Apple)).

As it now happens, I have the original step-sister chatting to me online asking me why iTunes doesn't work. "my ipod won't let me download anything on to it "

Time to start wildly stabbing in the dark.


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## richieshore (May 17, 2010)

Dash said:


> I've had a couple of Mac related issues recently. Most relevant - my partner's parents trying to copy some music onto a USB stick from somebody's Macbook (no iTunes/DRM issues here, user was wise enough not to pay the Apple tax on the MP3 player, just has the Mac for work). The instructions were simple - put stick in computer, find stick icon next to other computer drive icons; find music folder and drag everything across. It took them the best part of an hour to figure this all out - nobody could help them because it just didn't follow the conventions of other computers (i.e. Windows, as that's all everybody else knew, apart from the owner of said laptop who was on the other side of the world at the time).


They must be really simple, the process is exactly the same as windows only my computer is called finder. :lol: Could they not work out how to go on the internet either because it wasn't called internet explorer? :lol: :lol:


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## ScoobyTT (Aug 24, 2009)

Spandex said:


> ScoobyTT said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunate? It's fucking stupid. Why lock it at all?
> ...


All you've done is shift the bogeyman from one corporation to another. Still, it's not like Apple have a history of wanting to bind people to their products, services, store. From proprietary connectors to software that installs extra crap you don't want, it's unheard of for Apple to try and tie you down. :roll: Hell they even want a slice of your news subscription payments now.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

bro inlaw loves and only ever uses mac due to the graphics side......me i'm a windows man through and through.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

ScoobyTT said:


> All you've done is shift the bogeyman from one corporation to another.


Errr. Yes. I've shifted it to the corporations who are actually to blame. How on earth can you have an issue with that??



ScoobyTT said:


> Hell they even want a slice of your news subscription payments now.


It's almost like they're trying to make money out of their customers or something. Pretty obnoxious behaviour for a company, I know.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Nobody likes money grabbers and monopolistic tendencies. Which is why everybody hates Microsoft. The same ill feeling is beginning to appear for the new kids on the block.

Or perhaps people just don't like success stories.


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## BLinky (Jul 3, 2009)

Dash said:


> Nobody likes money grabbers and monopolistic tendencies. Which is why everybody hates Microsoft. The same ill feeling is beginning to appear for the new kids on the block.
> 
> Or perhaps people just don't like success stories.


you idiot... which do you think is better value for money? the M$ route or the apple route....


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

What's value for money got to do with people's dislike of monopolies?

In answer to your question, I'd say Microsoft products offer better value for money compared with Apple. They both do roughly the same thing, yet Microsoft's OEM distribution channels keep the price down.


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## ScoobyTT (Aug 24, 2009)

Is the right answer! Microsoft is far better value for money.



Spandex said:


> ScoobyTT said:
> 
> 
> > Hell they even want a slice of your news subscription payments now.
> ...


You miss the point. Apple's behaviour is like, say, Microsoft taking a slice of profits from independent software vendors who produce software that runs on Windows. The world would be a worse place if that had happened. And the world is, and will be a worse place for Apple.

I suppose you'd use the same money making argument for Bechtel's behaviour in Bolivia too. :roll:

I hold particular contempt for Apple's latest iPad commercial - "multi-tasking" is now a selling point. Cock-suckers. :lol:


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

ScoobyTT said:


> You miss the point. Apple's behaviour is like, say, Microsoft taking a slice of profits from independent software vendors who produce software that runs on Windows.


No, it's like Microsoft taking a slice of profits from app developers making software for Windows Phone. Which they are. Exactly the same percentage as Apple do. And Android. And Blackberry.



ScoobyTT said:


> I hold particular contempt for Apple's latest iPad commercial - "multi-tasking" is now a selling point. Cock-suckers. :lol:


How dare they not deliver everything that everyone wants all at once!! How dare they advertise things as and when they _do_ deliver them!! Cock suckers!!!! Get a grip...


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

The multi-tasking point is that all Smartphones were multitasking by definition. Then Apple came along with a Smartphone that missed the fundamental definition. Marketing things that simply aren't the case gets on my nerves. Just like "Unlimited data" (500mb fair use policy applies). It's just marketing crap. And I hate that (a) people are too dumb to see through it, (b) companies are cocks enough to exploit the general stupid masses.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Dash said:


> The multi-tasking point is that all Smartphones were multitasking by definition. Then Apple came along with a Smartphone that missed the fundamental definition. Marketing things that simply aren't the case gets on my nerves. Just like "Unlimited data" (500mb fair use policy applies). It's just marketing crap. And I hate that (a) people are too dumb to see through it, (b) companies are cocks enough to exploit the general stupid masses.


I'm not sure I get your point... All phones are technically multitasking (yes, I could still receive calls half-way though a game of snake on my Nokia 5110) but the definition of smartphone multitasking applied by pretty much everyone is that non-resident apps should be able to run in the background. Apple didn't allow this with earlier versions of the iPhone and iPad s/w, but they do now and are advertising that fact. Microsoft advertised the same thing with Windows Mobile... Was that wrong of them too?


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Windows Phone et all serialise the state of the "app", it does not continue the process space on the device.

I suppose technically the devices are going to be capable of maintaining processes, but if that feature is not available should it be sold as one? I don't see the difference between this restriction and a feature phone. I've been running Java "apps" on feature phones for years.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Dash said:


> Windows Phone et all serialise the state of the "app", it does not continue the process space on the device.
> 
> I suppose technically the devices are going to be capable of maintaining processes, but if that feature is not available should it be sold as one? I don't see the difference between this restriction and a feature phone. I've been running Java "apps" on feature phones for years.


I'm not really up to date on what WinMo does, but Apple don't _just_ serialise the state of the app in all cases. For example, a Pandora app can continue playing music in the background while you use other apps. Navigation apps can keep updating your position and give directions. It's not 'free for all' multitasking, but it's more than just saving the state of an app and allowing a few notifications through.

I still don't understand why Scooby is so incensed by them advertising it.

<Edit> I've had a read around and as far as I can tell, WinMo did do true multitasking. Maybe you're thinking of Windows Phone 7?


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Aye, Win Phone won't allow you to multi-task (again apart from staple pre-supplied things). Win Mo did. I've got a very old WinMo device which is great for this purpose.


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## ScoobyTT (Aug 24, 2009)

Spandex said:


> ScoobyTT said:
> 
> 
> > You miss the point. Apple's behaviour is like, say, Microsoft taking a slice of profits from independent software vendors who produce software that runs on Windows.
> ...


No, it's like Microsoft taking a slice of the money you pay for goods you buy online if you bought them using IE. Read the news on an iPad and Jobs gets a cut. What you use the device for has got precisely fuck-all to do with Apple.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

ScoobyTT said:


> Spandex said:
> 
> 
> > ScoobyTT said:
> ...


You're just choosing stupid, inaccurate analogies that make it sound worse than it is. There really is no reasoning with you when it comes to Apple.


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## davelincs (Jan 1, 2010)

the original question Apple ease of use, the answer is yes,its very easy to use


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## BLinky (Jul 3, 2009)

I like to cut mine before I use an apple, thou sometimes if I'm walking I'll just use it as is.


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## Fictorious (Sep 15, 2009)

ScoobyTT said:


> No, it's like Microsoft taking a slice of the money you pay for goods you buy online if you bought them using IE. Read the news on an iPad and Jobs gets a cut. What you use the device for has got precisely fuck-all to do with Apple.


Just like when you buy a computer from Dell Microsoft take a slice of your money for providing you with a service (windows 7). The absolute bastards.


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## BLinky (Jul 3, 2009)

time for fedora! ^^ oh wait it's absolute crap for entertainment.


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## ScoobyTT (Aug 24, 2009)

Fictorious said:


> Just like when you buy a computer from Dell Microsoft take a slice of your money for providing you with a service (windows 7). The absolute bastards.


No it's nothing like that you eejit :roll: If you're paying for content provided by a newspaper, Apple aren't providing you with any service.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

The original question wasn't ease of use, it was a statement that it falls short of the claim.


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## ScoobyTT (Aug 24, 2009)

Ok, so do we blame the marketing men or the reality distortion field? (These are not the proprietary connectors you're looking for)


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

My partner has a company iPhone. It was always running flat so I suggested she bought a couple of chargers to scatter at strategic locations. So she went ahead and bought a couple of Apple chargers.

Buzzt. Wrong. It didn't work. It coughed up an error saying this charging device was not supported and bailed. She finally figured out that she could fool her phone by plugging it in when it was off and it would happily charge up. Go figure.

I on the other hand don't really suffer from flat batteries as there is always a standard USB connector kicking about that I can pinch for 20 minutes of juice. Just another example of Apple's ease-of-use.


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## BLinky (Jul 3, 2009)

all phones run low after long use, nevermind a heavy smart phone. too bad you can't carry a spare battery or get one replaced without handing over the phone with a stack of dosh.^^ go Apple! go idiots!


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

ScoobyTT said:


> Fictorious said:
> 
> 
> > Just like when you buy a computer from Dell Microsoft take a slice of your money for providing you with a service (windows 7). The absolute bastards.
> ...


Errr... They're providing the mechanism to access the new issues and the trusted, single payment system for paying for them. Come on Scooby... If you think their cut is too large for the service they're providing, then that's up to you, but let's not pretend they're not providing anything.

Oh, and if android and windows phone get big subscription newspaper apps on their stores, they'll be taking a cut of each issue too.


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## BLinky (Jul 3, 2009)

Spandex said:


> ScoobyTT said:
> 
> 
> > Fictorious said:
> ...


thank god they all have browsers for people who know how to tap on a bookmark^^.


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## Rustytt (Mar 24, 2009)

I've built computers for years. It's easy, they're like Lego & provided you research what you want, you can build a high end system for about 40% of what you would pay over the counter. In fact I'm typing on this beast:









!tb, blu ray, 4 gig, win7 media centre, it's done away with half a dozen boxes under the telly. 

Any the point is I know what I'm doing & I wouldn't touch Apple with a bargepole. MS are monopolistic, good at buggy, leaky software, make the worst browser in the world, having killed off one of the best ones & drag their feet in all sorts of ways, but with a little knowledge & a willingness to roll up your sleeves, you'll get far more bang for your back than you ever could with Apple.

Apple stuff is way overpriced, like usuriously so, their attitude is highly controlling, from crappy Itunes to proprietory connectors to sealed batteries & locked down phones. There's no Apple in my life & there never will be, not until they play fair with customers & start treating them like grown ups.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Just had another fun one. My other step-sister was back from uni, and decided she wanted to send me a 1GB file. Bluetooth she exclaims. Er, no, that'll take forever (2 hours it guessed at). I said just connect to the NAS and dump the file onto it like everybody else does.

Could we figure out how to browse the network? No. A little Googling later we found the functionality buried in a menu. Tapped in the SMB path, and watched it promptly time out. Burnt it to disc in the end.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Rustytt said:


> I'In fact I'm typing on this beast:


You're right. It's a beast. :lol:


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## Rustytt (Mar 24, 2009)

Ha ha! That was a bit pompous of me!

It is pretty good though  )


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