# ABT remapping questions



## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

I am writing for a friend here.
He has a regular 2.0 Quattro TT S-tronic and wants to do ABT tuning. The HP increase is 86HP leading to TTS engine power basically.
https://www.abt-sportsline.de/en/tuning ... 91!39A6BC4\
or
https://www.abt-sportsline.de/en/tuning ... abt-power/

He is concerned that this much power increase will require better & stronger brakes!!
*Question 1: *Is there any difference in terms of size and performance or specifications between TT and TTS brakes (discs and calipers and all)???

*Question 2:* Does this level of remapping require a better breaking system or he can use the factory fitted brakes effectively?


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Yes, much is upgraded on the TTS from the engines internals and turbo to the brakes...


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

Toshiba said:


> Yes, much is upgraded on the TTS from the engines internals and turbo to the brakes...


Is there a way to compare the size of the breaks on TT Quattro and TTS?

If you were to remap a TTS with +80hp doesn't that entail that you need to upgrade the brakes on the TTS too?

(What Im trying to ask is: Do the brakes also need to be upgraded if the 80hp remapping is being done?)


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## cliveju (Jun 27, 2018)

Bigger brakes or uprated pads will come into their own on the track. For road use, standard brakes will carry on doing their job. How much does this tune-up cost out of interest?


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

cliveju said:


> Bigger brakes or uprated pads will come into their own on the track. For road use, standard brakes will carry on doing their job. How much does this tune-up cost out of interest?


Around 2.640eur was the ABT price. (price includes the taxes, install fee and TÜV certification).


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## Steve2017TTS (Aug 2, 2017)

captainhero17 said:


> cliveju said:
> 
> 
> > Bigger brakes or uprated pads will come into their own on the track. For road use, standard brakes will carry on doing their job. How much does this tune-up cost out of interest?
> ...


What does the upgrade entail - that sounds quite expensive for a remap!


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

Steve2017TTS said:


> captainhero17 said:
> 
> 
> > cliveju said:
> ...


*Quote from the ABT description*: "2,0 TFSI 169 kW (230 HP), 370 Nm to approx. 228 kW (310 HP), 440 Nm
consisting of: ABT-ECU (AEC), bracket set, cable harness and mounting kit

In this technology, the ABT Power Software is used in an additional engine control unit, the ABT Engine Control (AEC). Thus, ABT ensures the high standard in performance increase also in new developments and increasing high-tech in vehicles.

Your advantage: The serial engine control unit remains untouched and the vehicle is completely diagnosable. And when it comes to the quality of AEC, the high standards of the VW Group apply.
Article number: 8S0120310CHHC/1"

From what I understand they give you a brand new ECU unit and you can keep the stock one for when you want to re sell it probably


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## WL80 (Jul 10, 2018)

Sounds quite steep. At such increase (+35%, most of it coming from extra charge I guess) and for money they ask, I'd expect some intercooler improvement.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

captainhero17 said:


> Toshiba said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, much is upgraded on the TTS from the engines internals and turbo to the brakes...
> ...


Audi/VW use the parts bin for everything to minimise cost, if it was a case of 'changing the pads' only they would. They change the brakes to bigger ones for a reason and not because you 'might' track it. Yes,if I was upgrading a TTS to RS power I'd be putting on RS size brakes/discs.

But to answer the other question, if I was upgrading the brakes I'd go to RS ones on the base model too. They look better and why not go for the better ones if you are doing it...


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## phazer (Apr 2, 2018)

WL80 said:


> Sounds quite steep. At such increase (+35%, most of it coming from extra charge I guess) and for money they ask, I'd expect some intercooler improvement.


You're basically paying for a whole new piggy back ECU. For some reason ABT don't remap they prefer the modify signals afterwards approach which bumps up the cost and they also offer warranty so you're paying for that also - this bit makes it more attractive if losing all drivetrain warranty is a concern, but you do pay for it.


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## BauhauTTS (Jan 8, 2017)

That's a lot more expensive than a JB1 or JB4 piggyback, and presumably less flexible. It's a lot more than an APR flash which is available with warranty for ~$1000 IIRC, both of which provide about the same improvement. Is the TUV certification something that you must have where you are?


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

BauhauTTS said:


> That's a lot more expensive than a JB1 or JB4 piggyback, and presumably less flexible. It's a lot more than an APR flash which is available with warranty for ~$1000 IIRC, both of which provide about the same improvement. Is the TUV certification something that you must have where you are?


The ABT remaping is not for me per se. Its for my friend who is very bad with English language. :lol: 
But I guess TÜV is important and its not like you can refuse that since its included in the price. Its only 80eur so out of all expenses its not the one you would complain about the most


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

Not really the part of the thread topic but I dont mind a good discussion anytime. I want to give my 2cents:  
1. Yes, to me too this is a bit expensive.

2. WL80 yes the intercooler is included if needed in differnet packages. The TTS and TTRS have a similar ECU ABT upgrading package that includes a new intercooler. (I guess they need one more than regular TT because their package is +130hp instead of 80Hp one). Im sure ABT knows what its doing. Its not going to let your car get broken down. Mainly because they have their warranty and are compliant with VW/Audi warranty too. So it doesnt pay off to stip you for few extra EUR and then have to pay for a brand new engine if yours blows up because they needed to put better intercooler. :lol: (thats my take on it)

3. Why ABT and not a 3rd party tuner or someones garage? *From my friends perspective and I quote*: 
"_Yes the price is a bit of a premium. But ABT is a well known VW and Audi tuner house that offers for their price: warranty, doesn't clash with existing VW/Audi warranty. Secondly, I saw some bad experiences with "3rd party tuners". Also once you want to re-sell the car, very few people like to buy the "tuned up version" of a car. Most often because they fear that the current owner went to some kids garage and let him tweak the car on his mother Toshiba laptop (no pun intended Toshiba user :lol. It puts their mind at ease that the ABT is associated with Audi. It helps." _ end quote.

To be honest on the last thing. I've been almost 2 years member (mostly watching threads and just recently decided to make a profile). But every now and then I see a thread: Re-mapping gone wrong, engine light is on, strange sound from the engine, gear missing, unsettling while idle...
All the OP's admitted that they went to do remapping either DIY or some shotty place. I kinda understand my friend that he wishes to avoid this frustration. I understand that there are some good "house tuners' but when the s#£& hits the fan Id prefer to be able to put a face and a name on the lawsuit or customer complaint if something happens. Someone that wants to keep their reputation good and has much to lose.

Thats just my opinion.


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

Ok to summarise. 
The ABT 80hp remapping wouldn't necessarily require a better braking system if you are planing to use it on the streets. The factory brakes can handle it for daily street use. While on the tracks its a different story.

Which is good news for my friend since the brake replacement system (full replacement) ABT brake disc 370 mm x 35 mm is abysmally expensive. Something around of 7000 Eur.


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## zooks (Sep 15, 2017)

captainhero17 said:


> Ok to summarise.
> The factory brakes can handle it for daily street use. While on the tracks its a different story.


Definately. A bit off topic but I was shocked at how fast the normal TT brakes faded on the track. I know the standard setup is chosen by Audi as a comprimise of pad life/dust/noise/performance but still pretty poor for a sports coupe.


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

zooks said:


> captainhero17 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok to summarise.
> ...


I belive you. I think that Audi never saw TT as a "sports car" (more of a GT car). Both standard TT and TTS are mean to be quick but not so much "track ready". Otherwise the TTRS would be bit redundant. The only time Audi saw TT as a genuine sports car is with TTRS. (especially the latest one since the old TTRS Mk2 specs are Mk3 TTS numbers). Hence the sub par brakes for track use.

To be honest what car is fitted with sport brakes and track ready for little over 30.000£ starting price? (maybe Honda Civic Type R). Any other car i suppose will feel the strain after a good day on the track.


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## zooks (Sep 15, 2017)

captainhero17 said:


> To be honest what car is fitted with sport brakes and track ready for little over 30.000£ starting price? (maybe Honda Civic Type R). Any other car i suppose will feel the strain after a good day on the track.


Not even a day. Mine were overheating and seriously fading after 2 laps of Castle Combe :roll:


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

zooks said:


> Not even a day. Mine were overheating and seriously fading after 2 laps of Castle Combe :roll:


That is suspiciously quick and if true very disappointing. :lol: :? 
Are you talking about your TT or some other cars?

A car shouldn't overheat after 2 laps. Thats aint normal.


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## zooks (Sep 15, 2017)

captainhero17 said:


> zooks said:
> 
> 
> > Not even a day. Mine were overheating and seriously fading after 2 laps of Castle Combe :roll:
> ...


Nope,

2 'spirited' laps of Combe and you could feel things getting a little spongy. If i'd carried on braking that hard I would have had no brakes by lap 3/4 courtesy of boiling brake fluid.
In fairness some of that was my fault as it was my first few track laps so I was probably overbraking the car. It got better once i'd calmed down and trusted the grip more (which is amazing until the tyres cry enough!).

I have not had any issues with brakes or tyres on the road.


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

zooks said:


> captainhero17 said:
> 
> 
> > zooks said:
> ...


There is a very nice video showing the 200kmh-0kmh braking in TTRS and RS3 with standard brakes and some other brand.
I couldn't believe what happened after few braking attempts. (and remember this is TTRS and RS3. Cant imagine how this would go on TTS or god forbid regular TT)


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## Shaninnik (Sep 17, 2016)

I felt need to change brakes only after I did revo stage 2. Stage 1 (around +80hp) was ok with factory brakes. With stage 2 it felt like car accelerates faster than brakes so I changed front brakes to 4pot brembo set from Renault Megane RS with 340mm Golf Clubsport brake discs. It was much, much better.

I think your friend will be ok with ABT and factory brakes.


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

Shaninnik said:


> I felt need to change brakes only after I did revo stage 2. Stage 1 (around +80hp) was ok with factory brakes. With stage 2 it felt like car accelerates faster than brakes so I changed front brakes to 4pot brembo set from Renault Megane RS with 340mm Golf Clubsport brake discs. It was much, much better.
> 
> I think your friend will be ok with ABT and factory brakes.


Its crazy with ABT they offer some brake improvements for 6000eur! It must be an entire system and even then it still very expensive.
I googled a set of new discs and calipres from Brembo and the discs cost around 110eur each and calipers 100 or 120eur each.


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## Number86 (Oct 20, 2017)

The tts has some pretty chunky front brakes and discs are ventilated front and rear. I can't speak for the base or rs though. But these still aren't set up for track use from the factory. It's not sold as a track car, even the rs. It's why carbon ceramics are an option on a lot of performance cars. Complete waste of time on a road only car though.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

I disagree, I love my carbon brakes on the R8 - I don't need to worry about cleaning the wheels.  
The real value is less weight, but carbon brakes also need to be hot to work well. 
I'd also say its a misconception that carbon brakes will last for ever on the track - I can tell you from experience they won't and don't.

I know they don't and a guy that I was on the track with had to replace his, his wallet really knew about it...


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

Number86 said:


> The tts has some pretty chunky front brakes and discs are ventilated front and rear. I can't speak for the base or rs though. But these still aren't set up for track use from the factory. It's not sold as a track car, even the rs. It's why carbon ceramics are an option on a lot of performance cars. Complete waste of time on a road only car though.


I supose that base TT (at least the 2.0) is also ventilating the brakes at least from the front. Id imagine that those side wents bellow the light aren't just for ascetics. :lol:

But Im shocked that you think that TTRS is not ready for a race track. (I believe you) However do you know of someone who took the TTRS on the track and had some problems with the brakes?  



Number86 said:


> The tts has some pretty chunky front brakes and discs are ventilated front and rear. I can't speak for the base or rs though. But these still aren't set up for track use from the factory. It's not sold as a track car, even the rs. It's why carbon ceramics are an option on a lot of performance cars. Complete waste of time on a road only car though.


Id imagine they are very expensive to replace. I wonder if there is any benefit to ceramic brakes besides weight reduction? Both on the street and track.

But on the side note I am shocked how cheap Brembo discs and pads are in Italy.

Does changing brake discs and pads (Brembo) have any benefit or you must go for the full brake system modification? Is making the car brake better as easy as having better discs and pads?


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## Omychron (Sep 9, 2016)

captainhero17 said:


> But on the side note I am shocked how cheap Brembo discs and pads are in Italy.
> 
> Does changing brake discs and pads (Brembo) have any benefit or you must go for the full brake system modification? Is making the car brake better as easy as having better discs and pads?


I replaced brake pads by Brembo ones on the TT I used to have. Also replaced pads to the EBC Redstuff.
Don't expect any major improvements as long as you don't upgrade the brake system.


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