# Why are people ordering a MK2 now?!?



## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

I've seen people posting about their specs and orders etc, but I'm sorry, I just can't work this one out!?!

The 3.2 being used is the old ridicuolously heavy block taken straight out the old TT, and the 2.0T is FWD only and poverty spec.

So..... with Audi replacing the current 3.2 with the newer 3.2 in a few months time, and they are releasing the Quattro 2.0T, along with some other far superior engine/power varients early next year.....

Why on earth would you spend Â£30k on one of these 'early' cars, unless all you want to do is say to people "I've got one of them new MK2 TT's".

Genuine question this, 'cos it's got me beat!

:?


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

it's all abouth passion and emotion my dear friend

we are the rebel's, and you will get your necks crack around when we passed by on the street



hey don't make a fuzzy off it, it's just a car, not a marriage. after two years there will be a second choice with more engines to choose.
But i need a car as soon as possible, i sold my old MK1 for big money, and i can't wait any longer, that's why :wink:


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## Rico2006 (Apr 9, 2006)

My reasons for (probably) buying a 2.0T no Quattro, 200hp, FWD - as you put it 'poverty spec' :? :

This is good enough for me - personally I am buying the car for myself not for the next owner

26-27k is more than enough to spend on a car in my opinion 
(cost is not and issue - its just a choice to limit my spend on a car to <30k)

Quattro - sounds lovely - will it radically affect everyday driving? - probably not a massive amount

'Proper' sports cars are meant to be rear wheel drive (apparently) - but these will fishtail if you are not measured with the throttle on slippy roads - FWD will spin like crazy if you boot it in the wet - same principal - use less throttle.

I haven't, of course, driven a TT2 and never driven a 4-wheel drive coupe so my comments are my 'feeling' at the moment.

This may change when I drive the 2.0T & 3.2Q

But going back to my original comments, for some, a basic spec with a great interior and, lets remember, a reasonable amount of performance will be fine thanks

It will be good to see clarkson thrash one around a track to test its performance/handling beyond its everyday limits for sheer entertainment, and contradict himself by visibly having great fun but slagging it at the same time :lol:

Its just the final waiting now - everyones gagging for the demo TT2's to be available at the dealerships.


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## John C (Jul 5, 2002)

Kev - Exactly - I will wait for 265bhp Quattro chip to 300 and enjoy my Mk1 in the mean time.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Fair point - but some (like me) have had their names down on a car for over a year and we had no idea what would appear at the end of it.

20T FWD - just not a TT for me, but thats just me and good luck to those that want one for whatever reason. (pls lets not go 20T vs 3.2 again)

3.2 im sure it will be replaced at some point but its the only real option from lauch. Also we have no idea WHEN the newer top of the range model will appear unless you know for sure? if you do pls share.

Could i cancel - guess so, but id still have to buy another car and then moving to another new car (TT) inside 12months is madness even for me. If i didnt get a TT whats around - 40k for a cayman is too much, M3 - not really, Z4 - two seats, 350z two seats and old hat, crossfire no thanks, focus ST or Astra VXR, dont want a hot hatch.

So i get a 3.2 for 18months then move onto something else maybe?! If i like it i may even stick with it. Always going to be another, better spec'd or more powerfull model just around the corner - this is how car companies tempt you back time after time.


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

I have two main reasons to buy a TT now, being the first because my current car is nearly three years old and I need to replace it and second because I loved the new TT and won't be happy with any other car at this moment (and I have considered a lot of options).

About the spec, I don't want quattro on my car. I will have it when I buy a big saloon, but while I have a small hatchback or coupe I will have either FWD or RWD. I don't like the heavy 3.2 V6 engine wither, as as you say, it is basically the same engine of the old TT, is quite old, is expensive to run and doesn't provide the levels of power and torque that I would expect.

About the poor spec, I'm happy to spend money on options, so I have added everything that I fancied including S-tronic, Xenons, MR, full + ext. leather and etc... I buy the car for my own enjoyment first and for resale second, so I don't mind.

And after all, there's the nice feeling of having a car that is going to be quite exclusive at least for a few months.


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

I've ordered my TT2, am happy to order it and will be happy to drive it. Why? Why would I buy this one, when a new improved lighter faster shinier version is out next year?

Because - whatever you buy, from cars to toothpaste - there's always going to be something better, sometime in the future. It's what marketing departments do.

So what. Live today. If you wait for tomorrow ... well, sometimes it doesn't come.

And do I care that a new version will be 6% faster because the engine will be 8% lighter, and they'll squeeze 10% more BHP out of it? No, I don't care at all. Will I ever get within 6% (or whatever) of my cars top performance? I doubt it. Will I ever sit back and say "if only I had an extra 6%?" I doubt it.

But everyone's in a different decision place. If you have a mk1 that you're happy with, then fine, keep it, why change - prove the marketing department wrong (again). Why change if you're happy with what you've got?

But if you don't (I don't), then what do you buy if you want a car "like" a TT? Do you buy a mk1, or a mk2? Not a difficult decision, that one!

Right now, I have the opportunity to buy a car just for fun. Â£50k was too much to spend just for fun. So, with Â£30k, the choice becomes:
Elise - no, not comfortable enough for longer journeys
2nd hand TVR - no, I want to complete long (and short) journeys
350Z - actually, tempting, but I do like Audis.
BMW - no. Because it's a BMW. And don't call me blinkered.
2nd hand 996 - no, I want "my" car, not someone else's reject.
Brera - have you tried Alfa dealerships? I have. Once was enough.
DB9 - no, picked the wrong numbers last Saturday.
Focus ST - I've done the hot hatch thingy.
Classic something - ditto.
Impreza - no, got a Subaru in the family fleet already.

So, it was a TT2 or nothing. And spending Â£30k on nothing would not really have been a great idea. Because next year, I've heard that there's a great new nothing scheduled for release ...


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

What newer 3.2 is this, Kev? Considering my appears to only coming to me in February next year, I might as well chuck in the order and put a deposit down on a new 3.2 or a 2.0TQ.


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## Iceman (Jul 3, 2004)

Karcsi said:


> What newer 3.2 is this, Kev? Considering my appears to only coming to me in February next year, I might as well chuck in the order and put a deposit down on a new 3.2 or a 2.0TQ.


The old 3.2 VR6 have 250 hp and 320 Nm of torque and the new 3.2 FSI VR6 have also 250 hp but 330 Nm of torque.

Hans.


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

So basically no difference. Humpf. I beginning to think, stuff this TT ownership nonsense and get a nearly new Z4 or save up for a 997. Hell, for 2 grand more than I would pay for the TT I can get a 6 month old Z4 M Roadster!


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

Karcsi said:


> So basically no difference. Humpf. I beginning to think, stuff this TT ownership nonsense and get a nearly new Z4 or save up for a 997. Hell, for 2 grand more than I would pay for the TT I can get a 6 month old Z4 M Roadster!


Yes, maybe. But that's still *NOT* a good reason for buying a 6 month old Z4 M Roadster :wink:


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## bw64402 (Jul 30, 2006)

Karcsi said:


> So basically no difference. Humpf. I beginning to think, stuff this TT ownership nonsense and get a nearly new Z4 or save up for a 997. Hell, for 2 grand more than I would pay for the TT I can get a 6 month old Z4 M Roadster!


I'm going for the 2.0T, so for my money i can't think of any other car i'd rather have. If however i had Â£35k+ i'd definately go for a 997 (maybe not a Z4 though!).


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## LazyT (Apr 13, 2006)

Iceman said:


> Karcsi said:
> 
> 
> > The old 3.2 VR6 have 250 hp and 320 Nm of torque and the new 3.2 FSI VR6 have also 250 hp but 330 Nm of torque.


Yes, but the question is how long will Audi wait to replace the current V6 and how much lighter will the new V6 be than the old one?


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## Bryn (Feb 12, 2004)

I'm getting one because:
a. I can
b. The pop up spoiler - it's well neat


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

4 grand more gets me a 2.7 Cayman. 7 grand more, a 6 month old Cayman S.

I am starting to think with my head, and that's saying Â£35k for a TT is silly. I should wait another 6-9 months and buy a Cayman S or something similar.

I was ordering the TT on the assumption it will not depreciate much over the course of the 12 months, and then I'd be ready to trade up for a Porsche. However, I see no car is safe from depreciation - not even cars like the Z4 M and Cayman S. And considering Audi seem to be planning to feck around with the range over the course of the next year, including producing 70,000 of them a year, that does not bode well for residuals even during the first year.

I think I'm doing a really good job talking myself out of the TT.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

its not though - you have to add another 5k of options on the caymen to get a half good spec. (both models)


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

Karcsi said:


> 4 grand more gets me a 2.7 Cayman. 7 grand more, a 6 month old Cayman S.


I remember that thought process well ...

The REAL comparison with the 3.2Q TT2 is with a CaymanS, which, when specced similarly, costs close enough to Â£50k. That's a hefty increase.

I'd "put my name down" (letter of interest/intent only, no money needed to change hands!) when the Cayman was originally announced in the press, before all the specs and prices had been released. Once I got the details, and worked out that it was going to be Â£50k (the press at the time were talking about cÂ£35k), I decided to keep my money in my pocket for another day. That day should - finally - arrive sometime in October


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Karcsi said:


> I think I'm doing a really good job talking myself out of the TT.


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## squiggel (May 16, 2006)

Shouldnt feed a troll, but what the heck...

I'm getting one cause I want one, and it's going to be a damn good experience when it comes 8)


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## bw64402 (Jul 30, 2006)

The problem with all of this is you can keep adding more to the spec and the price creeps without you realising.

I started off with a simple 2.0T, Silver and larger wheels.

Then upgraded to 18" Turbines and added S Tronic.

Today i've added IPOD, Multi-function wheel & Rear parking sensors.

Now debating on whether to upgrade to 19" RS4 and/or BOSE.

Its never ending!!! I'll be able to afford a 6 month old Ferrari 599 soon :wink:

Like others have stated, we'll all enjoy our cars when they get here, its the wait that's causing me [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

Funny Kev - I was under the impression this was a TT Forum - and you ask why people are ordering a Mk2 ?

The Mk1 was and is an iconic vehicle.

Personally, I had mentally decided to wait for a 2.0 Q with 260 plus BHP - then I had the opportunity to see the new car and decided not to wait. I didn't fancy the 3.2 for fuel and 'old' reasons, and the 2.0T is getting good enough write ups in the Golf GTi to hopefully keep me happy and entertained.

I also believe that 90% of Mk 1 owners bought the car because they wanted a TT, not because it had Quattro. If a 2.0T with Quattro and 260+ was available now - yes, I'd buy it. But on the information I have from the TT Product Manager for the UK, we won't see a 2.0 TQ until mid 2008. If you have some different facts, please let us know.

I'm miffed about an extra grand for Xenons - so with Leather / Alcantara as standard, apart from the 17 alloys what else is 'poverty spec' about the 2.0. I don't recall the VX being a feast of luxury ?


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

bw64402 said:


> The problem with all of this is you can keep adding more to the spec and the price creeps without you realising.
> 
> I started off with a simple 2.0T, Silver and larger wheels.
> 
> ...


Just upgrade to the full-fat version and be happy, you know you really don't want it skimmed :wink:


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## bw64402 (Jul 30, 2006)

TTonyTT said:


> Just upgrade to the full-fat version and be happy, you know you really don't want it skimmed :wink:


mmmm, Â£400 extra for the 19" wheels and Â£475 for BOSE. Thats only Â£875 - Bargain. A further amendment to my order? (i think i'll sleep on it).


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

bw64402 said:


> TTonyTT said:
> 
> 
> > Just upgrade to the full-fat version and be happy, you know you really don't want it skimmed :wink:
> ...


I was thinking more of a V6 engine, 4WD, full leather interior, heated seats ... :wink:


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

TTonyTT said:


> The REAL comparison with the 3.2Q TT2 is with a CaymanS, which, when specced similarly, costs close enough to Â£50k. That's a hefty increase.


The 6 month old ones for Â£42k were about Â£50k new. I certainly wouldn't buy new.


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

Rebel said:


> Karcsi said:
> 
> 
> > I think I'm doing a really good job talking myself out of the TT.


Perhaps you didn't understand my post. Thinking is what people with brains do. But I shouldn't expect you'd understand. :roll:


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

Karcsi said:


> Rebel said:
> 
> 
> > Karcsi said:
> ...


 :lol: :lol:

[smiley=argue.gif]

:wink:


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

thought it was only 400 extra on the V6 1200 on the 20T


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Karscsi so you think (with your brains) that you turn you back on the TT.
And i thought (with my brains) that you betther could wait.

But hey, all the people are canceling and get nervous breakdowns here.
We don't talk abouth the beauty off the TT and all the options, how they look ( for example does a car without the alu-optic pack also have aluminium in the center console see picture)
But we only talk abouth orders which can't be confirm by dealers and canceling and complaining etc..

Let's just all relax, and talk abouth other stuff.

And my friend if you realy got that much brains, you wouldn't drive a TT 8)


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

bw64402 said:


> The problem with all of this is you can keep adding more to the spec and the price creeps without you realising.
> 
> I started off with a simple 2.0T, Silver and larger wheels.
> 
> ...


How long are you planning to keep the car for ? And which of your options do you REALLY want ?

The Audi wheel upgrade prices on the 2.0T are frankly ridiculous, hence Steve (TT-Law) and I are investigating Group buy deals for 18 / 19 new style RS4s


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## ChinsVXR (Apr 14, 2006)

kmpowell said:


> I've seen people posting about their specs and orders etc, but I'm sorry, I just can't work this one out!?!
> 
> The 3.2 being used is the old ridicuolously heavy block taken straight out the old TT, and the 2.0T is FWD only and poverty spec.
> 
> ...


You raise an interesting point, but your integrity fails with the cars youve owned.

Why would anyone thats likes cars and wants to comment on what people are buying now admit to owning a MK1 TT.

The MK1 TT was only produced for people after style not substance? Sure the MKII might not appeal to the hairdressers, housewifes and IT nerds that the MK1 did, but thats its appeal, whichever engine.

IMHO, MK1 owners need to look at their past before questioning peoples purchases now.

Stunned that a MK1 owner asks these questions. I'm buying one because its not a MK1, good enough?

Jonathan


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

Rebel said:


> And my friend if you realy got that much brains, you wouldn't drive a TT 8)


I don't drive a TT. I've driven a 170bhp diesel A3 for the last 3 years, because I do have the brains. 8)

Perhaps you have a higher threshold than most of us for being p1ssed about with - then again, you get your car in 4 weeks or so, so have hardly any cause for complaint. But I cannot see why any of us should tolerate Audi taking 6 months to get TT production fully up and running, such that all options are available to all customers. This should be a very embarassing situation for Audi to have to be in, but somehow they don't seem to give a damn.


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Karcsi, my wife also drives a A3 2.0 fsi Ambition , so she got also brains than?

I don't think by canceling your order, you make people awake by Audi AG. 
The car, will be succesful trust me. The production will be twice as much each year as on the MK1. And if you take a good look at the car, it's much betther than the MK1 , not only better looking, but better driving etc.

There are so many pre orders from each country last months, and so many dealer car's which must be made. that it will take a little more time as usual. 
Did you never ordered a "new model" ? It's quit usual too wait a little longer.
But did you know that my father must wait more than 10 months for his Q7? And he did order it when the car was introduced by the dealer.
So what are you complaining?

Some people want all the options and want it tomorrow..
I also wanted maybe the S-line package, but i didn't waited for it.

Just hang in there and stop complaining

Can please any body give me info abouth the aluminium optic pack with the pictures i posted? Thx


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

Rebel said:


> Karcsi, my wife also drives a A3 2.0 fsi Ambition , so she got also brains than?


An FSI? Brains? :lol: Plus, she married you.



Rebel said:


> I don't think by canceling your order, you make people awake by Audi AG.
> The car, will be succesful trust me. The production will be twice as much each year as on the MK1. And if you take a good look at the car, it's much betther than the MK1 , not only better looking, but better driving etc.
> 
> There are so many pre orders from each country last months, and so many dealer car's which must be made. that it will take a little more time as usual.
> ...


I completely agree - the MK2 is far superior to the Mk1, other than not quite being a design icon. But who cares about that.

In my eyes, Audi are a useless bunch of fools. OK, your father has to wait 10 months for the Q7. Isn't that simply demand led rather than the lack of options? In our case, Audi seem to have the capacity to build you and me a TT with a month or so, but as long it is with their choice of options.

They have had perhaps a year to plan the first 6 months of production with suppliers. Why on earth are there unpredictable delays to options? They did try to manage expectations by highlighting those options that would be delayed in the brochure. Unfortunately, that only works if your information is accurate. Audi were far from that, with options that were not highlighted as delayed being delayed.



Rebel said:


> Just hang in there and stop complaining


Are you telling me to shut up? :roll:


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## squiggel (May 16, 2006)

Karcsi said:


> They have had perhaps a year to plan the first 6 months of production with suppliers. Why on earth are there unpredictable delays to options? They did try to manage expectations by highlighting those options that would be delayed in the brochure. Unfortunately, that only works if your information is accurate. Audi were far from that, with options that were not highlighted as delayed being delayed.


and options that were going to delayed arriving on time..

Agree with all that. The mismanagement of options has soured the purchasing process for a lot of Audi's keenest customers, who have had the car on order pretty much on trust, based on their faith in Audi.


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

No i never gonna say to "shut up"
Maybe Tosh will :wink:

But Karcsi, i never heard complains abouth Audi when everybody ordered his MK1 ?

I ordered once a A4 when he just came out, and there was also a longer wainting list as usual.
But those day's were there less options on the list. Later on these options were added wih the years.
But now Audi brings a brand new model, almost completely with all the options that are possible.
I can understand that this can bring problems. And that some people must wait longer.

I can assure you that by the time it's summer 2007, every car with all options can be delivered in 2 months.
These are just new model problems, and i have read somewhere that the production is just at half power now.

You can do twoo things, buy a dealercar, which is already build, or choose a car with the options you want and enjoy your A3 till than 8)

And if you cancel the car and will go for a Porsche you regret that, because on the "Porsche-forum" they are all "my D*ck is bigger than yours" 
And i don't think you like that ;-)


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## bw64402 (Jul 30, 2006)

Toshiba said:


> thought it was only 400 extra on the V6 1200 on the 20T


Correct Tosh. I'd already planned on spending Â£1250 on the turbines, hence the RS4's are only Â£400 more. Still Â£1,650 in total and thats a lot of money. Especially when the POLL i did a week ago shows no difference in opinion between Turbines / RS4's and Bi-Colours.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

ok, that explains that then

Rebel,

That pack is std on UK cars i believe - unless its delayed :roll:


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Toshiba said:


> ok, that explains that then
> 
> Rebel,
> 
> That pack is std on UK cars i believe - unless its delayed :roll:


Lucky you, i did have to pay for it :?


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

Rebel said:


> No i never gonna say to "shut up"
> Maybe Tosh will :wink:
> 
> But Karcsi, i never heard complains abouth Audi when everybody ordered his MK1 ?
> ...


Cheers Rob. I've been Porsche mad since the age of 5 - especially the 911 (1992 964 Turbo S 3.3 in Torquise being my favourite). So, owning one is my ultimate aim.

I ordered the A3 in June 2003 - a week perhaps after it came on to the market in the UK. There were absolutely no problems with options. A few additional ones were added about 6 months later - folding mirrors / non smoking pack, but that's it.

With the TT, the delayed options are not ones Audi could exclude from the first 6 months - they would look stupid omitting half the alloys and MR. Looks like they prefer to look stupid in not being able to tell a customer when they should expect their car, or that it will be in 6 months time because of just one component being delayed.

I don't know whether there were similar problems with the Mk1. I doubt it, as the options list was very short.


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

Karcsi said:


> Cheers Rob. I've been Porsche mad since the age of 5 - especially the 911 (1992 964 Turbo S 3.3 in Torquise being my favourite). So, owning one is my ultimate aim.


Then you probably know about this place ...

http://www.camtune.com/

Friendly, helpful and non-pressured when I went to have a look ...


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## Johnnywb (May 31, 2006)

I've ordered a mk2 now because i need to change my car. Well i needed to change it in September, but it'll have to hang on until Jan, or Feb as my dealer is telling me now. It's all getting a little bit frustrating, had i known i wouldn't have got the car until Feb it would have ruled the TT out for me, not really sure how much longer i'm going to hold on for TBH. its all getting a bit silly now with stealers having no idea what's going on re options and build dates. Might have to go and have a look at the Z4 coupe and the Brera again.


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

TTonyTT said:


> Karcsi said:
> 
> 
> > Cheers Rob. I've been Porsche mad since the age of 5 - especially the 911 (1992 964 Turbo S 3.3 in Torquise being my favourite). So, owning one is my ultimate aim.
> ...


Thanks. Yep, know of them. Are you trying to convince me to cancel, so you are the only one with deep sea blue and ice blue leather?


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

Karcsi said:


> Are you trying to convince me to cancel, so you are the only one with deep sea blue and ice blue leather?


I've got residual values to think of ... :wink:

You're not really going to cancel are you? Not really, really. Imagine how you'd feel, walking out of the dealership after saying "no, cancel it. I really don't want it now". You know you want it ...

Despite the sig pics (which I keep meaning to change), I ended up ordering a full light-grey interior. Leather, headlining, carpet. I'm now beginning to think that was a brave choice ... particularly the carpet ... but I'll see it for real in a few weeks *hopefully* ... so it's too late to change now


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## CH_Peter (May 16, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> I've seen people posting about their specs and orders etc, but I'm sorry, I just can't work this one out!?!
> 
> The 3.2 being used is the old ridicuolously heavy block taken straight out the old TT, and the 2.0T is FWD only and poverty spec.
> 
> ...


Yours, I believe? :wink:


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

R6B TT said:


> I don't recall the VX being a feast of luxury ?


Dear oh dear, I never even started to compare the two. They are two different cars for two different markets, you are comparing chalk with cheese.



R6B TT said:


> Funny Kev - I was under the impression this was a TT Forum - and you ask why people are ordering a Mk2 ?


You have completely missed my point (or are intentionally choosing to ignore my point)! I'm not asking why people have ordered a TT, Iâ€™m asking why *now*, with what is publicly known to be round the corner.

Anyway..... plenty of good answers here, and for most I understand if you *need* the car now, but for everybody else I still don't understand the thought process.

It is clear that Audi rushed the MK2's launch and have settled for second best engines, simply to make sure sales are strong against the competition (who have bought out better models to compete with the MK1 TT). So round the corner (not that far away), we have a lighter 3.2 (that will transform the cars dynamics), a more powerful Quattro 2.0, and then a whole host of other engine&power combinations that are going to be 'better'. So.... when the replacements come out in what reality is a VERY short time, your cars will automatically be worth less.

For fun I went onto the Audi website and specced up both a 2.0T and a 3.2 with spec that is standard on the current MK1 and also a few 'nice to haves' e.g. Ipod connection, etc, and the prices staggered me (well over Â£30k easily!)! Now, when you come to upgrade or sell on, do you think the dealer is not going to consider your engine in the price?! If he is offered a older 3.2 or newer 3.2 he has more sales pitch on the new one, so your car is automatically worth less to them.

Ok, so those of you who plan to keep the car for years won't mind about this, but what I still donâ€™t understand is the following:

Given the current delivery wait and open public knowledge that the engines are going to superseded VERY soon and better models will be launched, why would you spend this huge amount of money on the new TT right *now*?

:?

p.s. Peter, no wooden spoon needed, it's a genuine question.


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## CH_Peter (May 16, 2002)

kmpowell said:


> p.s. Peter, no wooden spoon needed, it's a genuine question.


I think you answer your own question above anyway: some people just need the new stuff _now_. I'm with you, it's not the logical decision. Those choosing the Mk2 now do so with their heart, not their head.


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

hahahaha !!!

the 180 hp fwd was the car with the best "return"-price on the dutch market. It was even so the car which has most been build and sold from all the TT's.
and "very" soon will the new engines not be there , like you say.

Probaly you just one of the MK1 drivers which aren't please with the new model. But one thing is sure, i'm glad i've sold mine last year, beacause the MK1 will go down fast now.

After two years when we sell the MK2 it will be the first on the second hand market, and there alway's will be people for it.

So all your points are just wishfull thinking 8)


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

kmpowell said:


> [I'm not asking why people have ordered a TT, Iâ€™m asking why *now*, with what is publicly known to be round the corner.


When is round the corner - 3 months, 6 month 12 months 18months?
What is it? 250 or 300bhp, FSI, Turbo?

THis engine is only been in the MKI for about 2-3years so its hardly old.

Where are the details on this engine or is it like icemans 2.5 one?

Not sure its true about the drop in price - look at the MKI when the 190s came out 180s didnt take a drop, nor when the 240 can out did the 225s take a drop.

MKII wont really hit the second hand market for 12-18months. you may get a few which will be over priced, but not many.

Again all IMO, and would like to here your views.


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

kmpowell said:


> Given the current delivery wait and open public knowledge that the engines are going to superseded VERY soon and better models will be launched, why would you spend this huge amount of money on the new TT right *now*?


I think you WAY over state the situation. How "open" is this public knowledge? I feel a very small percentage of people interested in buying the TT know of a more powerful 2.0T coming along (it's an assumption rather than knowledge), let alone a revised 3.2. How soon is VERY soon? Isn't it mid-late 2007 for the 2.0TQ at the earliest and God knows when for the 3.2, which there has been no news about other than the engine apparently exists?

I don't deny that you ask a very relevant question. But rather than using emotive adjectives in order to question our decision process, give some facts please so that we can add some logic to that process.


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

kmpowell said:


> R6B TT said:
> 
> 
> > I don't recall the VX being a feast of luxury ?
> ...


Kev, the VX comparison was based around your comment that the 2.0 was 'poverty spec' - it has quite a high spec IMO, and at 24K I guess is probably not far off what the new cost of a VX.

On the engines front - I tend to agree with your V6 comment, as I said thats why I've ordered a 2.0T rather than a V6. Steve got a lease quote on the 3.2 and 2.0 and both were predicting the same retained value after 4 years - but the 3.2 is 4 - 5K more.

I hope that I'll be a happy 'early adopter' along with the V6 folk.

On the new models - I'd suggest that a 260 Quattro would probably slot in around the same price point as the current 3.2, and a higher performance model will cost more. So I'm not too worried - residual is predicted as over 60% for the 2.0 over 3 years


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

Toshiba said:


> Not sure its true about the drop in price - look at the MKI when the 190s came out 180s didnt take a drop, nor when the 240 can out did the 225s take a drop.


I doubt it too. I cannot imagine more than a handul of anal people, such as myself, going into a dealership and asking: but is that the new 3.2 with 330NM torque and FSI technology? And interms of new 2.0, again only a small percentage of people would change their minds and go for a 2.0TQ rather than a V6 - if you want a V6 you will get a V6, if you don't you won't. I would therefore think the effects on current model prices will be minimal. Add in long delivery times compared to an readily available second hand model, then perhaps there is no effect at all.


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

kmpowell said:


> R6B TT said:
> 
> 
> > I don't recall the VX being a feast of luxury ?
> ...


Kev, the VX comparison was based around your comment that the 2.0 was 'poverty spec' - it has quite a high spec IMO, and at 24K I guess is probably not far off what the new cost of a VX.

On the engines front - I tend to agree with your V6 comment, as I said thats why I've ordered a 2.0T rather than a V6. Steve got a lease quote on the 3.2 and 2.0 and both were predicting the same retained value after 4 years - but the 3.2 is 4 - 5K more.

I hope that I'll be a happy 'early adopter' along with the V6 folk.

On the new models - I'd suggest that a 260 Quattro would probably slot in around the same price point as the current 3.2, and a higher performance model will cost more. So I'm not too worried - residual is predicted as over 60% for the 2.0 over 3 years


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Karcsi said:


> bla bla bla....*anal people*, such as myself....


Please help out with this Karcsi ??? My english is not that good, i'm dutch :? 8)


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Ok, firstly I know as much as you do about these proposed engines, so I am not trying to be cryptic or secretive. I am going on knowledge and discussion that is freely availbale on the internet in various places e.g AudiWorld, Tyresmoke, and various car 'news' (some foreign) websites, etc etc

What is largly known is that in less than 6 months time, Audi will announce dates for the replacement 3.2 and a new 2.0T Quattro, with both these engines likely to be available in the 2nd Qtr of 2007.

What is more speculative is the 'other' engine combinations that will be launched. But reading between the lines, I am guessing that the new engines and powertrains are being brought in because they will be used on the more powerful models, and need to be tested and various combinations tried. These are likely to be either TTS, STT, RSTT or RSTT.

Now bearing in mind the time scales here (we are talking early 2007), it is not that far away, and if I were looking to buy a MK2 TT i would be asking for some confirmation from Audi on what they propose to do. There is A LOT of money at stake here for early adopters.

All IMO of course.


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

Rebel said:


> Karcsi said:
> 
> 
> > bla bla bla....*anal people*, such as myself....
> ...


Being so fussy / thorough that it's unnatural. Yes, that's me.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Rob, Â£24 is starting price for the 2.0T is just that, a 'starting' price. As I found earlier on the config, by the time you have added Xenons, Cruise, and all the 'essentials', you have cracked Â£30k with ease! Certainly not GVFM in my book, especially with the 'other' models coming soon.

If I were a betting man, I would guess that when these 'other' models are brought out, Audi will drop the price of the current cars, becasue there is no way a top of the range TT can be priced in the same structure as the current cars, because they will end up more than the Cayman at the current rate!


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

kmpowell said:


> Now bearing in mind the time scales here (we are talking early 2007), it is not that far away, and if I were looking to buy a MK2 TT i would be asking for some confirmation from Audi on what they propose to do. There is A LOT of money at stake here for early adopters.
> 
> All IMO of course.


Yes, I agree they have a duty of care to say if they already have fixed plans to, effectively, discontinue an engine so soon after most people will receive their cars - although, they'd argue it's just a natural progression / upgrade. :roll:


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Karcsi said:


> And interms of new 2.0, again only a small percentage of people would change their minds and go for a 2.0TQ rather than a V6


Agree - but i think i lot of people would drop the current 20T FWD in favor of the the 20TQ.

So can someone post a like to the info with regards the newer engine - im interest to read about it. I like to know everything


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

As the one in the new passat (3.2, that is).

http://www.australvolkswagen.com.au/showroom_passat.htm

And loads here:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=passat+3.2+fsi&spell=1

But a non-FSI versus FSI comparison would be nice.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Ok the first link

The power is the same 184kw (250bhp) @6300rpm on the TT 6250 on the passat
Nm is 320 on the TT (which is wrong - it will be 330Nm) and 330Nm on the passat

I must be missing the point.

:?


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

FSI and better torque profile. But whether it is better overall than the non-FSI 3.2, I have no idea.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Toshiba said:


> So can someone post a like to the info with regards the newer engine - im interest to read about it. I like to know everything


Here's some typical internet stuff on it all (this is from March this year, so the news of 'other models' has been around for ages):



> When the car goes on sale in the 2nd half of the year, it will be offered with two engines, the 2.0 TFSI (front wheel drive) and the 3.2 V6 quattro. Latter the range will get more engines including a base 2.0 FSI (Europe) with 150 hp, an upgraded 2.0 TFSI with 225 hp, 3.6 V6 FSI with approximately 280 hp (it will replace the 3.2 V6 FSI), plus two diesel power plants, the 2.0 TDI and the 3.0 V6 TDI producing 170 and 233 hp respectively. Rumours have it that the TTC may even get the 2007 S3 engine and a new 3.6 TFSI punching out more than 360 hp.


http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2006_03_05 ... chive.html


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

Toshiba said:


> Ok the first link
> 
> The power is the same 184kw (250bhp) @6300rpm on the TT 6250 on the passat
> Nm is 320 on the TT (which is wrong - it will be 330Nm) and 330Nm on the passat
> ...


I'm not sure that you are missing the point at all. It all depends on what "the point" is. :?

For me, the point is that rumour, speculation and what-ifs will always exist. It is the unknown. Undefined. We know that something will change in the line-up, at some point in the future. Inevitably, Audi will release a "better" car. Better in some ways that will be relevant to our decision on "buy now or later", and better in some other ways that are not relevant. But we don't know the details. Audi themselves probably don't know the details right now.

We make many decisions without perfect information. From the inane (is it going to rain, do I need to take a coat today) to the slightly more significant (do I spend Â£30k today, or wait until some time in the future to spend perhaps Â£33k).

The confusion you point out is exactly "the point" for me. I've made my decision knowing that I don't know some future facts. I don't care about what may happen. Before it happens, I do know that I'll have enjoyed driving my heavy-engined old-style V6 for at least 9 months. That's a lot of smiles.

Or, put more concisely ... this is all bollocks - if you want the car , then buy it. If you want to worry about what might happen in the future, well - make sure you've always got your coat with you.

:? [smiley=juggle.gif]


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

kmpowell said:


> an upgraded 2.0 TFSI with 225 hp.........3.6 V6 FSI with approximately 280 hp


so a 225 hp Quatro will do the trick? hahaha, you are funny, the car will be heavier, and the advantage will be nothing than.

so what's more?

Hans said the 3.6 engine won't fit in the MK2..?

are these the models which are around the corner? were everyone is waiting for?


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Rebel said:


> kmpowell said:
> 
> 
> > an upgraded 2.0 TFSI with 225 hp.........3.6 V6 FSI with approximately 280 hp
> ...


Thanks for quoting as me saying that, but unfortunately if you read my post properly, you will see I said that it was 'typical' (meaning what is in circulation) internet chat and speculation.

As I said earlier, I have no more idea than you what specific engines are 'round the coner', but I do know that there are some and they are very imminent.

As for 'Hans', well my opinion of him is widely known, and I take the rubbish he posts with a pinch of salt.

Oh BTW, heres some more chat about the possible engines: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2718132


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

kmpowell said:


> What is largly known is that in less than 6 months time, Audi will announce dates for the replacement 3.2 and a new 2.0T Quattro, with both these engines likely to be available in the 2nd Qtr of 2007.
> 
> All IMO of course.


I have an email from Audi saying no 2.0 TQ until mid-2008.

We're all working off imperfect information but the reviews on the Mk2 seem very good.

I've not gone overboard on extras, as you are correct they do ramp the price up - just some things I consider nice to have ( and some of which are now coming off due to lead times :evil: ). Personally - I don't like Cruise, the 9 speaker 140 watt new stereo should be good enough so no Bose. I'm still debating Xenons, a grand is a lot of money and I'm not sure how much of it you'd see back come resale


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

> When the car goes on sale in the 2nd half of the year, it will be offered with two engines, the 2.0 TFSI (front wheel drive) and the 3.2 V6 quattro. Latter the range will get more engines including a base 2.0 FSI (Europe) with 150 hp, an upgraded 2.0 TFSI with 225 hp, 3.6 V6 FSI with approximately 280 hp (*it will replace the 3.2 V6 FSI*), plus two diesel power plants, the 2.0 TDI and the 3.0 V6 TDI producing 170 and 233 hp respectively. Rumours have it that the TTC may even get the 2007 S3 engine and a new 3.6 TFSI punching out more than 360 hp.


Bit in bold - what does that mean? Audi start with non-FSI, switch to FSI, and then replace it with a 3.6? Wierd.

The question is, is the FSI version that much better than the current 3.2, and so imminant that it would be worth holding back our orders for a few months? However, we don't know how much better the FSI version is (as no-one seems to have performed the obvious comparison test) and we have no idea when it will happen.

On the point of weight, I really doubt they could shave much off the weight of the 3.2. Isn't it already all aluminium? So, a few kgs maximum if they make the cylinder walls thinner still.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

kmpowell said:


> As for 'Hans', well my opinion of him is widely known, and I take the rubbish he posts with a pinch of salt.


lol, :wink:

Im not going to change my order - i was just wanting to know. 20T no quattro is just not for me. I want the V6, The growl of the extra 2 cylinders, the twin pipes, the ability to put my footdown in the wet and move forward. I dont worry about fuel costs i have a fuel card. I dont think the 3.2 will lose more than the 20T - look at the history. 18T does not hold its money as well as the V6 so my cash is safe IMO - Again not that it matters to me as it a company car (well i've opted out and am using my car allowance to pay for it).

I could always chip it and it would prob be at 270bhpish


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Karcsi said:


> On the point of weight, I really doubt they could shave much off the weight of the 3.2. Isn't it already all aluminium? So, a few kgs maximum if they make the cylinder walls thinner still.


But the car is designed around the weight of the 3.2 and the 52:48 balance. maybe a few keys would make it 50/50 but so what? its hardly front heavy like the MKI.


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

Toshiba said:


> Karcsi said:
> 
> 
> > On the point of weight, I really doubt they could shave much off the weight of the 3.2. Isn't it already all aluminium? So, a few kgs maximum if they make the cylinder walls thinner still.
> ...


Isn't it 58:42? It's not as good as 52:48, surely?


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

is it - best read it again.

*goes looking for the artical*


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

kmpowell said:


> As for 'Hans', well my opinion of him is widely known, and I take the rubbish he posts with a pinch of salt.


That's easy to say. 
Iceman is one of the people who keep the MK2 forum and threads alive and kicking with his pictures and other stuff.

But i'm glad that you are now the man who knews all the in and outs, so keep posting, surpise us.

What's that strange thing some english people have, that they don't like foreigners? 
You did askes a question in the start off this thread, we gave you the answere, but you still think that we are some stupids because we don't wait till , maybe'....someday....somewere in the next year... there will be a faster engine........don't now wat the price will be.....etc etc...

I admit i'm a stupid. And i find the MK2 each day more and more atractive, and you can't make me happy with another car. 
I'm a audi man and will be audi man. And i want the TT as fast as it can be. Hell yess, i'm glad i'm stupid. In this world too many people make often choices with their head and too less with there heart.


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

Toshiba said:


> is it - best read it again.
> 
> *goes looking for the artical*


I think it was reported incorrectly in one/two of the reviews. But it is 58:42, unfortunately.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=new+audi+tt+weight+balance+58&btnG=Search&meta=


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Toshiba said:


> 18T does not hold its money as well as the V6 so my cash is safe IMO -


Tosh than this is only in the UK.
In the Auto Motor und Sport was a test abouth "second hand TT's" with result that the 180 hp was the best choice too buy , also they say that the 1.8 was the car which hold its money more than the other models.

i can asure you that a QS for example will hold less his money as a standard 1.8...

I bought my 1.8 for 43000 euro in July 2000
My dealer sold it for me in december 2005 for 26000 euro
I didn't buy a car instead, only the gentleman's agreetment if a buy a new car, i will go to the same dealer again, which i did.
i did get 9% bonus from the totall price, because he don't have to take a car in.

so please tell us your story abouth the prices from the QS ?

And abouth iceman..... also to you,..... you can laugh abouth it, but he alway's keep surprising us with new things, and often he is the first with news. not nice to do :?


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## Bryn (Feb 12, 2004)

TTonyTT said:


> Or, put more concisely ... this is all bollocks - if you want the car , then buy it. If you want to worry about what might happen in the future, well - make sure you've always got your coat with you


Well said that man - by far the most sensible comment in the entire thread


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

Bryn said:


> TTonyTT said:
> 
> 
> > Or, put more concisely ... this is all bollocks - if you want the car , then buy it. If you want to worry about what might happen in the future, well - make sure you've always got your coat with you
> ...


 8) Thank you.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Rebel said:


> I can asure you that a QS for example will hold less his money as a standard 1.8...
> 
> so please tell us your story abouth the prices from the QS ?


The qS is worth more than a 18T 225 with the same miles/year - what can i say.

Audi TT CoupÃ© 
1.8 T quattro (225ps) 2d 2005/55 
Insurance Group 18 (get a quote) 
Average mileage: 10,000 miles 
Cost New ('05) Â£ 27917 
Franchised Dealer Â£ 22505 
Independent Dealer Â£ 21730 
Private Good Â£ 20370 
Private Poor Â£ 17460 
Part Exchange Â£ 18820

68%

Audi TT CoupÃ© 
1.8 T quattro Sport (240ps) 2d 2005/55 
Insurance Group 19 (get a quote) 
Average mileage: 10,000 miles 
Cost New ('05) Â£ 29337 
Franchised Dealer Â£ 23955 
Independent Dealer Â£ 23130 
Private Good Â£ 21680 
Private Poor Â£ 18585 
Part Exchange Â£ 20030

68%

:roll:


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

standard 1.8T ....180 hp.... i said :wink:

Because the 2.0 TFSI will be the same i think....


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Quattro or FWD?

Audi TT CoupÃ© 
1.8 T (180ps) 2d 2005/55 
Insurance Group 17 (get a quote) 
Average mileage: 10,000 miles 
Cost New ('05) Â£ 21267 
Franchised Dealer Â£ 18270 
Independent Dealer Â£ 17640 
Private Good Â£ 16535 
Private Poor Â£ 14175 
Part Exchange Â£ 15075

70%

Audi TT CoupÃ© 
1.8 T quattro (180ps) 2d (6) 2005/55 
Insurance Group 18 (get a quote) 
Average mileage: 10,000 miles 
Cost New ('05) Â£ 25667 
Franchised Dealer Â£ 21055 
Independent Dealer Â£ 20330 
Private Good Â£ 19055 
Private Poor Â£ 16335 
Part Exchange Â£ 17605

69%


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Toshiba said:


> Quattro or FWD?


Tosh ....

The 180 FWD was the best sold TT from the whole range 
Maybe not in the UK, but audi did build the most off this version

So again i say, this 1.8 FWD is the car which is the best on the second hand market. And i don't say that, but just look on sites where the car's are in germany or the netherlands. they get the most money back for the car comparised to the other TT-models

why don't you believe me :? 
It's realy the truth


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## ChinsVXR (Apr 14, 2006)

One of the things people miss when talking about the 2.0T and 4wd is emmisions.

The new TT will make it onto many peoples company car list due to the high residuals and low lease rates, at least for the first couple of years.

The 2.0T with FWD has emmision lower than the Golf GTI and Focus ST. It will cost a 40% tax payer Â£200-220 a month depending on spec (about the same as a GTI with a nice spec). When you add quattro to this car emmisions jump. This could cost the individuals an extra Â£75 a month.

Not much for loaded individuals such as Tosh, but too rich for some others 

The TT also appeals to a wide range of people who unlike the petrol heads on here will not care about quattro. You can buy A3's with 2.0T engine in both fwd and quattro. The fwd easily outsells the quattro.

I think that due to these factors, the 2.0T will be the most popular in the range. I also think it will hold its money better and finance quotes seem to bear that out. The only danger to the 2.0T is if Audi bring in another poverty spec 150bhp type version, but that to me doesnt sit with the cars sporting pretence.

Some of these factors have influenced me, but if they had released a 2.0T with 220bhp at launch, i would probably of bought that model. If it was a 265bhp 2.0T, for certain.

I also think that the 3.2 is a reasonably safe bet until they do release a higher powered 2.0T or V6 and by that time most people will have depreciated their cars enough to not worry. The time it seems to take Audi to announce a new engine and then deliver the first cars appears to be long. They announce a new engine, its then available for ordering a few months in the future and then it takes another couple of months for the first cars to arrive.

All IMHO 8)

Jonathan


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

You are in a different market - its not that i do or dont believe you. the UK (which is the biggest seller for the TT) doesnt always follow europe as you well know :wink:


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Thank you ChinsVXR.....you are right


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

Could people start backing up their claims: more FWD A3 2.0T sold than quattro; more 180 FWD sold than any other version.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

It doesnt really matter if they can or cant - just because everyone else is doesnt mean we all have to follow. UK market is not like Europe.

I'm 100% happy with the top of the range old front heavy quattro V6 that will be worth nothing once they launch the new 800bhp 3.6FSI twin turbo 100mpg engine the day after i get mine.

Plus i need the quattro to get me round the bends as im sat in the back of my limo smoking a pipe with a flat cap blocking my view of the road. The less than higher perfomance engine will help reduce the number of people i knock over as they will be easly able to side step me as i crawl towards them..

O and im not loaded, I have to work like everyone else does.


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

Toshiba said:


> O and im not loaded


That's because you explode most nights!


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

I need to stay off the eggs.

[smiley=toilet.gif]


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

Toshiba said:


> I'm 100% happy with the top of the range old front heavy quattro V6 that will be worth nothing once they launch the new 800bhp 3.6FSI twin turbo 100mpg engine the day after i get mine.


 [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## ChinsVXR (Apr 14, 2006)

Toshiba said:


> It doesnt really matter if they can or cant - just because everyone else is doesnt mean we all have to follow. UK market is not like Europe.
> 
> I'm 100% happy with the top of the range old front heavy quattro V6 that will be worth nothing once they launch the new 800bhp 3.6FSI twin turbo 100mpg engine the day after i get mine.
> 
> ...


Glad your at peace with yourself


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## Karcsi (Mar 6, 2003)

ChinsVXR said:


> Toshiba said:
> 
> 
> > It doesnt really matter if they can or cant - just because everyone else is doesnt mean we all have to follow. UK market is not like Europe.
> ...


Apart from exploding most nights, according to Dotti.


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