# -- Tom's sleeper build --



## TT Tom TT

_______ My MK1 TT Build Results _______

Power - 401.25bhp / 374.68 ft.lbs










Weight - 1320KG










Power to weight - 301.7bhp/tonne
(Stock Audi TT 225 = 144bhp/tonne)

_______________________________________________________________

ENGINE (all work carried out in 2017):

- Forged rifle-drilled connecting rods
- New piston rings
- Cylinder head cross-hatch honed with kerosene
- New big end shell bearings
- Cylinder head skimmed
- Cylinder head cleaned
- New Valve-Stem seals
- New Exhaust Guides (old guides hammered out, new guides hammered in)
- Engine ran in on Miller's running in oil for 1000 miles (varying loads no more than 4K RPM)
- 2.0T coil packs with adapters for improved coil pack reliability

CLUTCH & FLYWHEEL:

- Sachs 4 puck paddle clutch (changed in 2020)
- Sachs slave cylinder (changed in 2020)
- Sachs master cylinder (changed in 2020)
- LUK dual mass flywheel (changed in 2020)
- LUK pressure plate (changed in 2020)

TURBO (all work carried out in 2017):

- AET-380 K04 based hybrid - 7+7 large compressor wheel (Real K16 with 49mm exducer)
- Additional porting and honing done to remove step from turbo outlet to reduce back pressure
- Turbo has had wastegate and throat ported
- Hotside turbo inlet ported to 49mm to match collector of exhaust manifold to promote smooth flow
- Turbosmart re-enforced actuator (14 PSI)

EXHAUST (all work carried out in 2017):

- JBS Cast Manifold (heavy duty, will outlast the car, not like Relentless tubular crap usually used on this platform) ported by JBL Racing, collector area 49mm to match hot-side of turbo inlet
- Collector area diamond surfaced flat to allow gasketless fitment
- 3 inch Down Pipe
- 3 inch De-Cat
- Rest of the exhaust fabricated to 3"

COOLING (all work carried out in 2017):

- HG Motorsport front mounted intercooler
- WMI fluid (50/50) made with de-ionised water and 99.99% pure Methanol
- AEM Water/Methanol Injection installation using screenwash resevoir, controller mounted in glovebox

FUELING:

- Deaschwerks DW65V 265 LPH fuel pump (2019)
- 1000cc Bosch Injectors
- New Mann Fuel filter (2020)

AIR INTAKE:

- MAF Delete (mapped accordingly)
- Badger 5 V2.2 Turbo Intake Pipe
- PRO-RAM extra large air intake with velocity stock to promote smooth laminar flow
- Turbo charge pipe debaffled and then pipe welded in recess to prevent turbulent non-laminar flow
- Cold air feed from front grill to air filter to help provide lower AIT's

SUSPENSION, HANDLING & WHEELS:

- Coilover suspension (renewed October 2020)
- Hunter 4 wheel alignment
- Corner-weighted with slight reverse rake
- Cookbots for front control arm (pre-recall bushes for more precise handling)
- Polybushes throughout

- Powertrak insert (Haldex AWD improvement)
- Lightweight 18" alloys OZ Racing Superleggeras (7.9KG per wheel) these alone are about £2,000
- Rotalla Setula S-Race tyres all round (2020), 255/35/18 rear - 225/40/18 front, friend works at a local Kwik Fit and highly recommended them, can't fault them, puts the power down in all weathers

BRAKES:

- Brembo GT 4-Pot Calipers
- 323mm discs
- EBC Yellowstuff pads
- Rear brakes stock with Brembo pads
- Hub-centric billet Aluminium 10mm spacers with longer bolts to clear front calipers
- ATE Type 200 brake fluid 
- Brakes bled yearly

MAINTENANCE & MISCELLANEOUS:

- Unicorn Motorsport (Stockport) developments custom remap
- ESP delete, pressing the ESP button now FULLY disabled ESP, not partially
- Forge 007P diverter valve
- Spare wheel removal
- Counterweight ballast removal
- N249 delete
- PCV delete, hoses routed to back of car to help prevent PCV smell
- Short shifter
- Mann filters always used where possible
- New Water Pump
- New Timing Belt
- New Turbo Oil Feed
- New Oil Strainer
- New Wheel bearings
- New Gearbox Oil
- New Rear Differential Oil
- New Haldex Oil
- New Brake Fluid
- New Engine Oil every six months
- New Fuel Filter
- New NGK BKR7E spark plugs every service

_______________________________________________________________


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## ProjectMick

Best opening five lines to a build thread I've seen in a while!

Just wondering - did you not get Bills ported manifold with the turbo and TIP? I thought they came as a package together rather than going with the relentless one.


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## TT Tom TT

ProjectMick said:


> Best opening five lines to a build thread I've seen in a while!
> 
> Just wondering - did you not get Bills ported manifold with the turbo and TIP? I thought they came as a package together rather than going with the relentless one.


Thanks !

He wasn't offering the package at the time and I have reason to believe that the V4 will flow better - Around 100 I'd say have been fitted and only 1 has cracked so I'm pretty confident about the reliability too! Should be interesting to see how this set up manages and what I can manage to achieve with a stock looking car.

Truth be told the goal is to hit the magic 300HP/tonne if I do that I shall be happy!


----------



## hang your idols

I would say very optimistic figures power and weight reduction.

400hp from that hybrid with WMI or with out?

Good luck with your build 

PS.-it`s with WMI,maybe if you use only methanol with out water should help chasing big no


----------



## Gonzalo1495

hang your idols said:


> I would say very optimistic figures power and weight reduction.
> 
> 400hp from that hybrid with WMI or with out?
> 
> Good luck with your build
> 
> PS.-it`s with WMI,maybe if you use only methanol with out water should help chasing big no


Absolutely not power wise.
The fact many of you run engines with rods over there and hybrid turbos and aren't breaking the 400bhp (not whp) threshold is simply because of underwhelming tuning.
With WMI, this setup will have no problems hitting that mark. He just needs to run more boost than 19lbs like most of the uk crowd does 
The weight is a different story, keeping a stock looking and hitting 1300kg will be very very hard...


----------



## hang your idols

Gonzo,you are a tuner and i don`t know :lol:

Anyway,it`s not about only the boost,a small turbo if you push it to much you end up having intake hot air and high egt.

Recently a very few people came with this big hp on this small frame turbos(with wmi,how much power with out wmi?);personally i don`t like and trust hybrids if you chase big power,i prefer a good,reliable turbo.

I`m not part of UK crowd,i`m east european,not coz it`s matter for me,but for you looks like it does. :lol:


----------



## Gonzalo1495

hang your idols said:


> Gonzo,you are a tuner and i don`t know :lol:
> 
> Anyway,it`s not about only the boost,a small turbo if you push it to much you end up having intake hot air and high egt.
> 
> Recently a very few people came with this big hp on this small frame turbos(with wmi,how much power with out wmi?);personally i don`t like and trust hybrids if you chase big power,i prefer a good,reliable turbo.
> 
> I`m not part of UK crowd,i`m east european,not coz it`s matter for me,but for you looks like it does. :lol:


Well by the "uk crowd", I am referring to this forum. Since it is hosted and primarily frequented by people from the UK. :wink:

The ideology on this forum is to run really (and I mean really) conservative builds and tunes. I see people who could be pushing that benchmark and way past it, but are instead running really conservative tunes on hybrid turbos with a built engine. Coming from other forums where people with similar setups make nasty amounts of power (400whp and up), it's just strange and a little bit sad to see people not taking these cars to their full potential when they are trying to build them up. And it all stems from misinformation.


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## rocker tt.

If you're going for a Stealth set up where are you going to mount your W/M Container ?? [smiley=gossip.gif]


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## ProjectMick

Washer bottle could be one place. Hopefully the V4 holds out for you as well dude.


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## Mondo

rocker tt. said:


> If you're going for a Stealth set up where are you going to mount your W/M Container ?? [smiley=gossip.gif]


I've got an idea... :wink:


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## ProjectMick

Who put theirs in a laptop bag in the boot? Was that you Mondo?


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## Gonzalo1495

ProjectMick said:


> Washer bottle could be one place. Hopefully the V4 holds out for you as well dude.


This is were I'm planning mine. Built in sensor to detect when mix/fluid is low, and it's completely stealth.


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## Beunhaas

rocker tt. said:


> If you're going for a Stealth set up where are you going to mount your W/M Container ?? [smiley=gossip.gif]


Battery relocation gives you plenty of space to hide the reservoir and pump 8)


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## TT Tom TT

hang your idols said:


> I would say very optimistic figures power and weight reduction.
> 
> 400hp from that hybrid with WMI or with out?
> 
> Good luck with your build
> 
> PS.-it`s with WMI,maybe if you use only methanol with out water should help chasing big no


Cheers for the luck, 410HP would be my dream figure, 370HP is what I'm expecting as an absolute minimum, 390 would make me happy so long as I am able to get my weight down enough to make 300HP/tonne but I would really love to crack 400HP on the dyno and I think with the set-up I will be using it may well happen, but only time will tell (months to wait yet).



Gonzalo1495 said:


> Absolutely not power wise.
> The fact many of you run engines with rods over there and hybrid turbos and aren't breaking the 400bhp (not whp) threshold is simply because of underwhelming tuning.
> With WMI, this setup will have no problems hitting that mark. He just needs to run more boost than 19lbs like most of the uk crowd does
> The weight is a different story, keeping a stock looking and hitting 1300kg will be very very hard...


This is why I'm using Unicorn Developments, they are supposed to push things more than other tuners - they're a good bunch who develop launch control - anti-lag and flat-shift before other tuners as well so they don't just pinch ideas, the only problem is that their rollers are typically very brutal !



rocker tt. said:


> If you're going for a Stealth set up where are you going to mount your W/M Container ?? [smiley=gossip.gif]


I was planning on putting it in the recess where the space-saver spare wheel was underneath the boot liner floor.



ProjectMick said:


> Washer bottle could be one place. Hopefully the V4 holds out for you as well dude.


I hope so too Mick!



ProjectMick said:


> Who put theirs in a laptop bag in the boot? Was that you Mondo?


It was indeed.


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## Gonzalo1495

TT Tom TT said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely not power wise.
> The fact many of you run engines with rods over there and hybrid turbos and aren't breaking the 400bhp (not whp) threshold is simply because of underwhelming tuning.
> With WMI, this setup will have no problems hitting that mark. He just needs to run more boost than 19lbs like most of the uk crowd does
> The weight is a different story, keeping a stock looking and hitting 1300kg will be very very hard...
> 
> 
> 
> This is why I'm using Unicorn Developments, they are supposed to push things more than other tuners - they're a good bunch who develop launch control - anti-lag and flat-shift before other tuners as well so they don't just pinch ideas, the only problem is that their rollers are typically very brutal !
Click to expand...

Never heard of them, but any tuner that can make all of that happen is a good start. I run all of those. Launch Control imo is very important in these cars in order to take full advantage of our awd. What is the rev limiter going to be set to?

And to add to the thread, your build seems well developed and has all the key components. I have no doubt you will hit your target power goal.

As far as weight, without being able to gut the interior, and replacing some oem parts, you may not reach your weight goal. Things like aftermarket wheels, fmic, racing seats, rear seat delete, etc. are all very important pieces to the weight reduction puzzle.


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## TT Tom TT

Gonzalo1495 said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely not power wise.
> The fact many of you run engines with rods over there and hybrid turbos and aren't breaking the 400bhp (not whp) threshold is simply because of underwhelming tuning.
> With WMI, this setup will have no problems hitting that mark. He just needs to run more boost than 19lbs like most of the uk crowd does
> The weight is a different story, keeping a stock looking and hitting 1300kg will be very very hard...
> 
> 
> 
> This is why I'm using Unicorn Developments, they are supposed to push things more than other tuners - they're a good bunch who develop launch control - anti-lag and flat-shift before other tuners as well so they don't just pinch ideas, the only problem is that their rollers are typically very brutal !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never heard of them, but any tuner that can make all of that happen is a good start. I run all of those. Launch Control imo is very important in these cars in order to take full advantage of our awd. What is the rev limiter going to be set to?
> 
> And to add to the thread, your build seems well developed and has all the key components. I have no doubt you will hit your target power goal.
> 
> As far as weight, without being able to gut the interior, and replacing some oem parts, you may not reach your weight goal. Things like aftermarket wheels, fmic, racing seats, rear seat delete, etc. are all very important pieces to the weight reduction puzzle.
Click to expand...

I'm a little bit scared of using launch control as I know it can be hard on the clutch / flywheel / drivetrain but then again by the same token it seems silly not to use it if it's there? I'll have the rev limiter at 7.5k

I hope the build works out well, I will change the wheels out for some light 7.5KG per corner ones, sadly the seats and carpetting are staying on the inside - which I agree - may certainly cause problems. All mods apart from that for weight saving are done / will be done though so it shouldn't be TOOOOOO bad.

V4 Manifold heatwrapped:


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## Gonzalo1495

TT Tom TT said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is why I'm using Unicorn Developments, they are supposed to push things more than other tuners - they're a good bunch who develop launch control - anti-lag and flat-shift before other tuners as well so they don't just pinch ideas, the only problem is that their rollers are typically very brutal !
> 
> 
> 
> Never heard of them, but any tuner that can make all of that happen is a good start. I run all of those. Launch Control imo is very important in these cars in order to take full advantage of our awd. What is the rev limiter going to be set to?
> 
> And to add to the thread, your build seems well developed and has all the key components. I have no doubt you will hit your target power goal.
> 
> As far as weight, without being able to gut the interior, and replacing some oem parts, you may not reach your weight goal. Things like aftermarket wheels, fmic, racing seats, rear seat delete, etc. are all very important pieces to the weight reduction puzzle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm a little bit scared of using launch control as I know it can be hard on the clutch / flywheel / drivetrain but then again by the same token it seems silly not to use it if it's there? I'll have the rev limiter at 7.5k
> 
> I hope the build works out well, I will change the wheels out for some light 7.5KG per corner ones, sadly the seats and carpetting are staying on the inside - which I agree - may certainly cause problems. All mods apart from that for weight saving are done / will be done though so it shouldn't be TOOOOOO bad.
Click to expand...

It depends man. I have well over 50 launches on my car and my clutch is still kicking hard. Not only that, I only do aggressive driving on it 90% of the time and it is still banging. 
Obviously if you are on a stock clutch with 130k miles though be wary that you may need a new one before going crazy, but again that is common sense when modifying any vehicle.

And honestly if you can shed even 150lbs and still keep a stock look I'll be impressed.


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## TT Tom TT

Gonzalo1495 said:


> It depends man. I have well over 50 launches on my car and my clutch is still kicking hard. Not only that, I only do aggressive driving on it 90% of the time and it is still banging.
> Obviously if you are on a stock clutch with 130k miles though be wary that you may need a new one before going crazy, but again that is common sense when modifying any vehicle.
> 
> And honestly if you can shed even 150lbs and still keep a stock look I'll be impressed.


My clutch and flywheel is supposedly good for 400-450 ft/lb and it's only just been bed in and run in (1500 miles on it). Well so far I've done the following for weight saving:

- Superleggeras (24kg)
- Ballast / counterweight delete (17kg)
- Backbox delete (15kg)
- Spare wheel delete including tools (15kg)
- No cats or heavy Audi downpipe (10kg)
- Toe eye and bolts delete (6kg)
- Lightweight Battery PVR 22 Clubsport (6kg)
- Lightweight SMF (6kg)
- First aid kit, warning triangle delete, parcel shelf delete, undertray delete (5kg)
- Grooved drilled discs (4kg)
- N249 delete (1kg)

Sum 113kg of weight-loss, 30kg of that being unsprung rotational mass and 4kg being unsprung bodes well I hope! I also never fill my tank past half-way.

I think what my car will weigh is going to be just as interesting as the power it makes!


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## BadNun

I went out of my way to get the missing bits for my tool kit so it's complete.

Trust me you will be cross if you ever need some plastic tweezers to remove a wheel nut cap or pull a thorn from a lion paw....


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## Madmax199

hang your idols said:


> Anyway,it`s not about only the boost,a small turbo if you push it to much you end up having intake hot air and high egt.
> 
> Recently a very few people came with this big hp on this small frame turbos(with wmi,how much power with out wmi?);personally i don`t like and trust hybrids if you chase big power,i prefer a good,reliable turbo.
> 
> I`m not part of UK crowd,i`m east european,not coz it`s matter for me,but for you looks like it does. :lol:


If it wasn't about boost than we would all be running naturally aspirated engines. Boost is everything!!! :roll:

You take a fixed amount of air flowed by the motor/turbo (airflow in CFM) and making X amount of power, then you compress it 2 times atmospheric pressure, you will get X+1 power. You take that same volume flowed and you compress it 3 times atmospheric pressure, you'll get X+1+1 power. Values are made up, but you get the point. I have never increased boost on a turbo and not made more power as a result (obviously with increased fuel to match). Whenever there is compression, there will be heat generated. This can't be avoided, whether it's 0.5 time, 1 time, 2 times, or 3 times atmospheric pressure, you will generate heat. The solution is (and always has been) to cool the heated air charged, nothing more nothing else! The method or cooling demand may vary depending on how much heat generated through compression... you just need to provide cooling according to the demand.

I have compressed the the air charge on the factory turbo up to 33 psi (did it for years). Was it hot? Yes! Was I able to cool it to usable levels? Yes!!! The result, more power than anyone ever dreamed a standard K04 would make. Was it reliable? Absolutely! Turbo survived 13 years of street duty, 5 racing seasons, countless Dyno runs, etc. My EGT was in check, my AFR was on point... and all that with a timing curve that would make most so called 1.8t tuners shit their pants. I now run a hybrid on my TT, same formula, same result. Power way above the norm, and going strong. Why? The power of BOOST!

I already know the naysayers will say "but you have better fuel in the US". Well, I have done it on lower octane fuel than what's available in tbe UK at the pump. So that's not a valid point. Does it require solid tuning and a built motor? Yes! Do you need knowledge and skills to make it happen? Absolutely, but I am confident that talented tuners and solid builders do exist in Europe... Niki Gower at R-tech, Bill Brockbank at Badger5 are prime examples. You go to these guys with your plans, I know they can make it happen! Sorry for the rant, but this old cookie cutter UK-philosophy with building a TT is getting old. Wake up!


----------



## TT Tom TT

Madmax199 said:


> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway,it`s not about only the boost,a small turbo if you push it to much you end up having intake hot air and high egt.
> 
> Recently a very few people came with this big hp on this small frame turbos(with wmi,how much power with out wmi?);personally i don`t like and trust hybrids if you chase big power,i prefer a good,reliable turbo.
> 
> I`m not part of UK crowd,i`m east european,not coz it`s matter for me,but for you looks like it does. :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> If it wasn't about boost than we would all be running naturally aspirated engines. Boost is everything!!! :roll:
> 
> You take a fixed amount of air flowed by the motor/turbo (airflow in CFM) and making X amount of power, then you compress it 2 times atmospheric pressure, you will get X+1 power. You take that same volume flowed and you compress it 3 times atmospheric pressure, you'll get X+1+1 power. Values are made up, but you get the point. I have never increased boost on a turbo and not made more power as a result (obviously with increased fuel to match). Whenever there is compression, there will be heat generated. This can't be avoided, whether it's 0.5 time, 1 time, 2 times, or 3 times atmospheric pressure, you will generate heat. The solution is (and always has been) to cool the heated air charged, nothing more nothing else! The method or cooling demand may vary depending on how much heat generated through compression... you just need to provide cooling according to the demand.
> 
> I have compressed the the air charge on the factory turbo up to 33 psi (did it for years). Was it hot? Yes! Was I able to cool it to usable levels? Yes!!! The result, more power than anyone ever dreamed a standard K04 would make. Was it reliable? Absolutely! Turbo survived 13 years of street duty, 5 racing seasons, countless Dyno runs, etc. My EGT was in check, my AFR was on point... and all that with a timing curve that would make most so called 1.8t tuners shit their pants. I now run a hybrid on my TT, same formula, same result. Power way above the norm, and going strong. Why? The power of BOOST!
> 
> I already know the naysayers will say "but you have better fuel in the US". Well, I have done it on lower octane fuel than what's available in tbe UK at the pump. So that's not a valid point. Does it require solid tuning and a built motor? Yes! Do you need knowledge and skills to make it happen? Absolutely, but I am confident that talented tuners and solid builders do exist in Europe... Niki Gower at R-tech, Bill Brockbank at Badger5 are prime examples. You go to these guys with your plans, I know they can make it happen! Sorry for the rant, but this old cookie cutter UK-philosophy with building a TT is getting old. Wake up!
Click to expand...

I wouldn't include Niki Gower, I spoke to him at R-tech and he pissed all over me and laughed his cock off when I said people were getting more than 350HP from 1.8T hybrids. This was about 7 months ago when the K418T was the most powerful commercial hybrid available. The guy knows a lot but their tunes seem conservative as well :/


----------



## Gonzalo1495

Madmax199 said:


> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway,it`s not about only the boost,a small turbo if you push it to much you end up having intake hot air and high egt.
> 
> Recently a very few people came with this big hp on this small frame turbos(with wmi,how much power with out wmi?);personally i don`t like and trust hybrids if you chase big power,i prefer a good,reliable turbo.
> 
> I`m not part of UK crowd,i`m east european,not coz it`s matter for me,but for you looks like it does. :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> If it wasn't about boost than we would all be running naturally aspirated engines. Boost is everything!!! :roll:
> 
> You take a fixed amount of air flowed by the motor/turbo (airflow in CFM) and making X amount of power, then you compress it 2 times atmospheric pressure, you will get X+1 power. You take that same volume flowed and you compress it 3 times atmospheric pressure, you'll get X+1+1 power. Values are made up, but you get the point. I have never increased boost on a turbo and not made more power as a result (obviously with increased fuel to match). Whenever there is compression, there will be heat generated. This can't be avoided, whether it's 0.5 time, 1 time, 2 times, or 3 times atmospheric pressure, you will generate heat. The solution is (and always has been) to cool the heated air charged, nothing more nothing else! The method or cooling demand may vary depending on how much heat generated through compression... you just need to provide cooling according to the demand.
> 
> I have compressed the the air charge on the factory turbo up to 33 psi (did it for years). Was it hot? Yes! Was I able to cool it to usable levels? Yes!!! The result, more power than anyone ever dreamed a standard K04 would make. Was it reliable? Absolutely! Turbo survived 13 years of street duty, 5 racing seasons, countless Dyno runs, etc. My EGT was in check, my AFR was on point... and all that with a timing curve that would make most so called 1.8t tuners shit their pants. I now run a hybrid on my TT, same formula, same result. Power way above the norm, and going strong. Why? The power of BOOST!
> 
> I already know the naysayers will say "but you have better fuel in the US". Well, I have done it on lower octane fuel than what's available in tbe UK at the pump. So that's not a valid point. Does it require solid tuning and a built motor? Yes! Do you need knowledge and skills to make it happen? Absolutely, but I am confident that talented tuners and solid builders do exist in Europe... Niki Gower at R-tech, Bill Brockbank at Badger5 are prime examples. You go to these guys with your plans, I know they can make it happen! Sorry for the rant, but this old cookie cutter UK-philosophy with building a TT is getting old. Wake up!
Click to expand...

Preach bro, preach. One day they will catch on lol.

I applaud Tom for taking the time to fully research everything and approach making his TT a monster and without settling for conservative figures or ideologies.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Gonzalo1495 said:


> Madmax199 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway,it`s not about only the boost,a small turbo if you push it to much you end up having intake hot air and high egt.
> 
> Recently a very few people came with this big hp on this small frame turbos(with wmi,how much power with out wmi?);personally i don`t like and trust hybrids if you chase big power,i prefer a good,reliable turbo.
> 
> I`m not part of UK crowd,i`m east european,not coz it`s matter for me,but for you looks like it does. :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> If it wasn't about boost than we would all be running naturally aspirated engines. Boost is everything!!! :roll:
> 
> You take a fixed amount of air flowed by the motor/turbo (airflow in CFM) and making X amount of power, then you compress it 2 times atmospheric pressure, you will get X+1 power. You take that same volume flowed and you compress it 3 times atmospheric pressure, you'll get X+1+1 power. Values are made up, but you get the point. I have never increased boost on a turbo and not made more power as a result (obviously with increased fuel to match). Whenever there is compression, there will be heat generated. This can't be avoided, whether it's 0.5 time, 1 time, 2 times, or 3 times atmospheric pressure, you will generate heat. The solution is (and always has been) to cool the heated air charged, nothing more nothing else! The method or cooling demand may vary depending on how much heat generated through compression... you just need to provide cooling according to the demand.
> 
> I have compressed the the air charge on the factory turbo up to 33 psi (did it for years). Was it hot? Yes! Was I able to cool it to usable levels? Yes!!! The result, more power than anyone ever dreamed a standard K04 would make. Was it reliable? Absolutely! Turbo survived 13 years of street duty, 5 racing seasons, countless Dyno runs, etc. My EGT was in check, my AFR was on point... and all that with a timing curve that would make most so called 1.8t tuners shit their pants. I now run a hybrid on my TT, same formula, same result. Power way above the norm, and going strong. Why? The power of BOOST!
> 
> I already know the naysayers will say "but you have better fuel in the US". Well, I have done it on lower octane fuel than what's available in tbe UK at the pump. So that's not a valid point. Does it require solid tuning and a built motor? Yes! Do you need knowledge and skills to make it happen? Absolutely, but I am confident that talented tuners and solid builders do exist in Europe... Niki Gower at R-tech, Bill Brockbank at Badger5 are prime examples. You go to these guys with your plans, I know they can make it happen! Sorry for the rant, but this old cookie cutter UK-philosophy with building a TT is getting old. Wake up!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Preach bro, preach. One day they will catch on lol.
> 
> I applaud Tom for taking the time to fully research everything and approach making his TT a monster and without settling for conservative figures or ideologies.
Click to expand...

Cheers Gonz, may as well do a job properly and as best as possible, mediocrity is simply not good enough.


----------



## hang your idols

Max,i don`t agree with you boost it`s everything;a smaller turbo at the same boost like a bigger one will flow less and hot air.
K04 it`s a tiny turbo with small housing,even if you put a bigger compressor,because the small housing to the end will be a restrictive turbo.(see the pic gtx2867r vs stock k04 for reference)

So,let`s see the facts:how much power on K04 hybrid with out WMI and regular gas?


----------



## Madmax199

TT Tom TT said:


> I wouldn't include Niki Gower, I spoke to him at R-tech and he pissed all over me and laughed his cock off when I said people were getting more than 350HP from 1.8T hybrids. This was about 7 months ago when the K418T was the most powerful commercial hybrid available. The guy knows a lot but their tunes seem conservative as well :/


That's unfortunate! I have spoken with him before, he definitely has the knowledge to tune it. He must be one of those tuners that look down on small frame turbos and refuse to give them the time of day. Oh well, go see Bill and tell him you want a Madmax like setup, that you know the implications, but don't care.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Madmax199 said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't include Niki Gower, I spoke to him at R-tech and he pissed all over me and laughed his cock off when I said people were getting more than 350HP from 1.8T hybrids. This was about 7 months ago when the K418T was the most powerful commercial hybrid available. The guy knows a lot but their tunes seem conservative as well :/
> 
> 
> 
> That's unfortunate! I have spoken with him before, he definitely has the knowledge to tune it. He must be one of those tuners that look down on small frame turbos and refuse to give them the time of day. Oh well, go see Bill and tell him you want a Madmax like setup, that you know the implications, but don't care.
Click to expand...

I may have to do exactly this, as mentioned I plan on using Unicorn Motor Developments as they're only 30 miles away and have very good reviews in the Audi-scene over here but I have a sneaky suspicion that when I mention it should be minimum 380HP capable they will laugh as well.


----------



## Madmax199

hang your idols said:


> Max,i don`t agree with you boost it`s everything;a smaller turbo at the same boost like a bigger one will flow less and hot air.
> K04 it`s a tiny turbo with small housing,even if you put a bigger compressor,because the small housing to the end will be a restrictive turbo.(see the pic gtx2867r vs stock k04 for reference)
> 
> So,let`s see the facts:how much power on K04 hybrid with out WMI and regular gas?


This reply makes me think you don't have a full grasp on the difference between flow and pressure. We are discussing pressure here, not flow. The max flow rate of a turbo (big or small) is pretty much a constant. How much molecules can be squeezed through that fixed volume flowed will impact the power outcome on a specific turbo (big or small). Comparing two turbos of different flow rate based on pressure is literally like comparing an apple to a watermelon.

Take your GTX2867r for example, its max flow rate is X CFM. Now if you spin it to compress 10 psi, 20 psi, 30 psi, 40 psi (up to maximum usable rpm), the result will be the same: the higher the boost, the higher the power outcome (provided you can supply enough fuel and charge cooling). The formula is consistent to any turbo -- how do you think the homologated rally cars get insane power through stock production turbos with a restrictor plate? They spin it to the moon to max out the pressure, then use water injection to cool down the charge to usable levels.

You want to see numbers on a hybrid and 93 octane pump gas? My local buddy Steve (aka Spartiati) does just that on a Frankenturbo F23. I don't bother with piss fuel anymore when I have liquid gold sold for much cheaper and readily available at the pump. Below are his figures and a dyno video for proof. About 350 WHP/325 WTQ -- since you guys don't deal with power at the wheels, this is roughly 400 BHP and 372 BTQ. Digest that for fact!!!


----------



## ProjectMick

I'm by no means an expert on this subject but it seems (to me) as though many tuners have built up a reputation over time and sometimes wish to protect it (which is reasonable). I think the worry is that if they tune something above the norm and something goes wrong, blame will be put upon them. I think most have the ability but don't see any benefit it going beyond what is deemed safe.

It's a shame in many ways but I guess understandable from a business point of view. One bad episode (whether anything to do it's the tune or not) could be more damaging than it's worth.

Having said this, Bill should be able to get it there or there abouts - after all the guy has built a 400+bhp Lupo as a shopping car for his wife!


----------



## Mondo

Indeed. And it only caught fire the once, on some rollers, so that doesn't count. :wink:

I wonder, does anyone have any experience of him modifying a 1.8T TT perhaps? Surely someone on here has. :?


----------



## ProjectMick

Mondo said:


> Indeed. And it only caught fire the once, on some rollers, so that doesn't count. :wink:
> 
> I wonder, does anyone have any experience of him modifying a 1.8T TT perhaps? Surely someone on here has. :?


That's ok - if it's on the rollers its still in "R+D" - you can blow up what you like!

To be fair though that's kind of my point above - he built that and maintains it but because its operating outside of the usual parameters there is the chance that it could develop an issue. That's just how it is when you push things further.

Only trouble is, if that happens to a customer car rather than his own then it becomes more "complicated".

Don't know of any TTs he has done but I know he works on a lot of other Audi & Seat stuff which presumably would be the same?


----------



## hang your idols

Madmax199 said:


> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> 
> Max,i don`t agree with you boost it`s everything;a smaller turbo at the same boost like a bigger one will flow less and hot air.
> K04 it`s a tiny turbo with small housing,even if you put a bigger compressor,because the small housing to the end will be a restrictive turbo.(see the pic gtx2867r vs stock k04 for reference)
> 
> So,let`s see the facts:how much power on K04 hybrid with out WMI and regular gas?
> 
> 
> 
> This reply makes me think you don't have a full grasp on the difference between flow and pressure. We are discussing pressure here, not flow. The max flow rate of a turbo (big or small) is pretty much a constant. How much molecules can be squeezed through that fixed volume flowed will impact the power outcome on a specific turbo (big or small). Comparing two turbos of different flow rate based on pressure is literally like comparing an apple to a watermelon.
> 
> Take your GTX2867r for example, its max flow rate is X CFM. Now if you spin it to compress 10 psi, 20 psi, 30 psi, 40 psi (up to maximum usable rpm), the result will be the same: the higher the boost, the higher the power outcome (provided you can supply enough fuel and charge cooling). The formula is consistent to any turbo -- how do you think the homologated rally cars get insane power through stock production turbos with a restrictor plate? They spin it to the moon to max out the pressure, then use water injection to cool down the charge to usable levels.
> 
> You want to see numbers on a hybrid and 93 octane pump gas? My local buddy Steve (aka Spartiati) does just that on a Frankenturbo F23. I don't bother with piss fuel anymore when I have liquid gold sold for much cheaper and readily available at the pump. Below are his figures and a dyno video for proof. About 350 WHP/325 WTQ -- since you guys don't deal with power at the wheels, this is roughly 400 BHP and 372 BTQ. Digest that for fact!!!
Click to expand...

Obviously flow and pressure are 2 different things,but they are related;what i was trying to say,a small turbo comparing with a bigger one at the same boost will flow less and hot air.
One problem with the hybrids,coz they have to cut from housing material to fit bigger wheel compressor they crack,they are not reliable, to many failures.
For that money are better options around 

PS.-i don`t believe on this big no from hybrids and it`s not just me  ,but hey,everybody it`s free to do what ever they want with their cars and money,we just talking :wink:


----------



## CHAO5

Good luck with the project Tom, its going to be epic. Got any progress pics mate?


----------



## Madmax199

hang your idols said:


> Obviously flow and pressure are 2 different things,but they are related;what i was trying to say,a small turbo comparing with a bigger one at the same boost will flow less and hot air.
> One problem with the hybrids,coz they have to cut from housing material to fit bigger wheel compressor they crack,they are not reliable, to many failures.
> For that money are better options around
> 
> PS.-i don`t believe on this big no from hybrids and it`s not just me  ,but hey,everybody it`s free to do what ever they want with their cars and money,we just talking :wink:


I mean the obious should be obvious, two turbos with different turbine, compressor, will operate differently at various pressure ratio. In case you didn't know, any turbo pushed to operate outside of the compressor's 65-60 percent efficiency island will generate a lot of heat, it's simple physics. That my friend, has nothing to do with the turbo being as samll as a coin, or the size of the moon. You take the largest GTX series turbo and operate it in the 55% efficiency island and it will spit out hot air. Where most people get lost with how a turbo compressor work, is that they don't realize that 30 psi inside of the "acceptable" 65% efficiency island will make way less power than operating at 45 psi and landing outside of the magic 65% efficiency island (provided enough fuel and cooling is added to match).

I get it that you're a fan of big turbos, but I don't see where the generalization that hybrids or small turbos are "unreliable". The BW KKK frame turbos, that our cars came fitted with, are some of the toughest little bastard you will find. You add better trust bearing, more efficient wheels, thicker shaft diameter with the hybrids based on these turbos, and you have something practically bullet proof... And that is a fact! I have been abusing mine at about 58-59% compressor efficiency island for 3 racing seasons now. When I ran Garrett GT series turbos in my evo, and operating at similar efficiency range, the most I got was two racing seasons before needing a rebuild. So don't get ahead of yourself thinking that the top aftermarket BT are any more reliable than the factory frame turbos (or their hybrid versions). Tell me what BT will consistently, and in mass production, get you the mileage/years of abuse you get out of a standard KKK. Such aftermarket turbo doesn't exist.

Each turbo size has its intended target and use. Small frame turbos will give great spool, nice low end TQ, and response that is usable in all conditions. Large frame turbos will flow a lot, support very big power figures and have a endless top end TQ. It really depends on what the end user is after. Tom has his mind made on what he wants and did his research -- I'm struggling to see your point with BT this and BT that in this specific thread. You asked for proof that a small frame turbo can make the figures mentioned in the thread, proof was provided! Now your on about reliability. The pump gas hybrid example I posted before, has been running a F23 for 5+ years now. He is a friend of mine and is local to me, the car is his daily driver, he drag races it, and races it at the track without missing a beat. What more can anyone want from a hybrid, when it can give you 400 BHP on pump gas for 5 years and counting? I already know your answer .... a BT.


----------



## TT Tom TT

CHAO5 said:


> Good luck with the project Tom, its going to be epic. Got any progress pics mate?


No progress pictures at the moment sadly, everything is going rather glacial.



Madmax199 said:


> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously flow and pressure are 2 different things,but they are related;what i was trying to say,a small turbo comparing with a bigger one at the same boost will flow less and hot air.
> One problem with the hybrids,coz they have to cut from housing material to fit bigger wheel compressor they crack,they are not reliable, to many failures.
> For that money are better options around
> 
> PS.-i don`t believe on this big no from hybrids and it`s not just me  ,but hey,everybody it`s free to do what ever they want with their cars and money,we just talking :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> I mean the obious should be obvious, two turbos with different turbine, compressor, will operate differently at various pressure ratio. In case you didn't know, any turbo pushed to operate outside of the compressor's 65-60 percent efficiency island will generate a lot of heat, it's simple physics. That my friend, has nothing to do with the turbo being as samll as a coin, or the size of the moon. You take the largest GTX series turbo and operate it in the 55% efficiency island and it will spit out hot air. Where most people get lost with how a turbo compressor work, is that they don't realize that 30 psi inside of the "acceptable" 65% efficiency island will make way less power than operating at 45 psi and landing outside of the magic 65% efficiency island (provided enough fuel and cooling is added to match).
> 
> I get it that you're a fan of big turbos, but I don't see where the generalization that hybrids or small turbos are "unreliable". The BW KKK frame turbos, that our cars came fitted with, are some of the toughest little bastard you will find. You add better trust bearing, more efficient wheels, thicker shaft diameter with the hybrids based on these turbos, and you have something practically bullet proof... And that is a fact! I have been abusing mine at about 58-59% compressor efficiency island for 3 racing seasons now. When I ran Garrett GT series turbos in my evo, and operating at similar efficiency range, the most I got was two racing seasons before needing a rebuild. So don't get ahead of yourself thinking that the top aftermarket BT are any more reliable than the factory frame turbos (or their hybrid versions). Tell me what BT will consistently, and in mass production, get you the mileage/years of abuse you get out of a standard KKK. Such aftermarket turbo doesn't exist.
> 
> Each turbo size has its intended target and use. Small frame turbos will give great spool, nice low end TQ, and response that is usable in all conditions. Large frame turbos will flow a lot, support very big power figures and have a endless top end TQ. It really depends on what the end user is after. Tom has his mind made on what he wants and did his research -- I'm struggling to see your point with BT this and BT that in this specific thread. You asked for proof that a small frame turbo can make the figures mentioned in the thread, proof was provided! Now your on about reliability. The pump gas hybrid example I posted before, has been running a F23 for 5+ years now. He is a friend of mine and is local to me, the car is his daily driver, he drag races it, and races it at the track without missing a beat. What more can anyone want from a hybrid, when it can give you 400 BHP on pump gas for 5 years and counting? I already know your answer .... a BT.
Click to expand...

Yup, preach.


----------



## hang your idols

Max,i said the hybrids are not reliable(and the most are not),not the small turbos  .Anyway,you don`t have to convince me,i have a different opinion:hybrids are good to squeeze some more power than OEM,if you chase big power,go big.

Tom,good luck with the final result,hopefully the preaching will help you,don`t forget you are living in the UK where the tuners are conservative(just teasing you) :lol:


----------



## TT Tom TT

hang your idols said:


> Max,i said the hybrids are not reliable(and the most are not),not the small turbos  .Anyway,you don`t have to convince me,i have a different opinion:hybrids are good to squeeze some more power than OEM,if you chase big power,go big.
> 
> Tom,good luck with the final result,hopefully the preaching will help you,don`t forget you are living in the UK where the tuners are conservative(just teasing you) :lol:


Just so you know, AET supply the turbo that I've bought with a 2-year no quibble warranty. So basically they're more than willing for you to put it on your car and shag it for 2 years straight which could easily be 30,000 miles+... There's no silly clauses either like "guarantee doesn't apply if you go over 3k revs" or anything silly like that. They most be confident in the turbo to supply it with such a generous warranty.


----------



## hang your idols

2 years warranty without millage it`s good [smiley=dude.gif]

Do you upgrade the valves and springs,or keep it stock?


----------



## TT Tom TT

hang your idols said:


> 2 years warranty without millage it`s good [smiley=dude.gif]
> 
> Do you upgrade the valves and springs,or keep it stock?


Stock valve-train only renewed 5000 miles ago though so should be all good :mrgreen:...


----------



## Madmax199

hang your idols said:


> Max,i said the hybrids are not reliable(and the most are not),not the small turbos  .Anyway,you don`t have to convince me,i have a different opinion:hybrids are good to squeeze some more power than OEM,if you chase big power,go big.


That's the thing, Tom is not chasing big power, only 400 HP. 400 HP is nothing for a hybrid as proven by my car or the other pump gas example that you demanded as proof. You're not convincing me of anything either, I have seen the numbers "BT" make on this forum, and they're laughable at best. I know my hybrid, and the ones that have been built with a brain are reliable and get the numbers needed... around 500 BHP on mine. Enjoy the laggy life of big turbos my friend, I'll be here enjoying my unreliable hybrid that can't make good power!


----------



## hang your idols

Max,i don`t try to convince anybody of anything,we just share and talking,everybody on their one to the end,but looks like some of you are taking personally :lol:

If this is laggy,then i`m happy with what i have


----------



## Madmax199

Nobody is taking anything personal, I could care less as I make the power that I need in my car. I'm just not falling for the BT is everything BS that many blindly follow in the 1.8t tuning community.

Is the Dyno graph you posted laggy? You tell me... it show 510 NM at 4,755 rpm. I make that at the wheels at 3,500 rpm and 555 NM by 4,500 rpm ON MY CONSERVATIVE TUNE (detuned for longevity on long races). As I said, very laughable in terms of response and overall power (especially when a hybrid can poop all over that) -- but if that's what you're into then it's great!

I reliably make more power down low, mid-range, up top than the pathetic figures you have on your "BT". Stop, because you make hybrids look really good and BT look really bad. If BT means the pathetic figures you posted on that graph, then going BT is pointless. As you said later in the thread, hail the King then, because these BT numbers are anemic.

PS: post edited for typos in the NM conversion figures and some truth on how weak and laughable your BT numbers are. Go kick rocks with your slow ass car. :wink:


----------



## hang your idols

Madmax199 said:


> You tell me... it show 410 NM at 4,755 rpm.


Check the picture again,the yellow line and the yellow no from the right it`s torque,the red line and red no from de left are bhp :lol:

400nm at 3750rpm
450nm at 4000rpm
510nm at 4755rpm 
402.6 bhp at 6445rpm but the turbo it`s keeping the power to the red line which it`s 8200rpm :lol:

I could squeeze more power and torque and push it to higher reverse(8500rpm or a bit more),but i want it as safe it`s possible and reliable ;for a street cat it`s good enough


----------



## Madmax199

hang your idols said:


> Check the picture again,the yellow line and the yellow no from the right it`s torque,the red line and red no from de left are bhp :lol:
> 
> 400nm at 3750rpm
> 450nm at 4000rpm
> 510nm at 4755rpm
> 402.6 bhp at 6445rpm but the turbo it`s keeping the power to the red line which it`s 8200rpm :lol:


Dude we are looking at the same graph. The one you posted has the maximum values listed on the right of the chart, so even if someone one couldn't read a chart, you could go by that. It reads the following for peak values:

P-eng: 402 brake HP ------- 6,445 rpm
P-wheel 308 wheel HP
M-eng 410 NM brake TQ --- 4,755 rpm

We were talking about response and lag. 400 NM (295 TQ) at the engine @ 3,750 rpm, not even at the wheels, is once again laughable (and that's been nice).

BTW, your real HP curve at the wheels (which is a real life representation that accounts for the drivetrain) does drop off up top from 5,600 rpm. BLUE CURVE :roll:

PS: Tom, I apologize for the back and forth banter on your thread, and I'm done responding to this particular nonsense.


----------



## hang your idols

The only thing which i agree with you and this it`s clear non sense when even a dyno sheet you don`t know to read;i will not explain this was a Maha dyno and all the shit,coz it`s waste of time :lol:

Long live the king aka hybrids and mighty Max 

Tom,let`s see your results :wink:


----------



## Gonzalo1495

To add my 2 psi to this discussion. I too don't see the point of Big Turbos on these cars. 
The only, and I mean only, justification IMO is for a drag build where low and mid end rpm range is pretty much thrown out the window.

But frankly, I doubt anyone here is into that, especially in a TT lol. Not that it wouldn't be cool to see, just that it's not a justifiable platform to make a car like that into, there are a multitude of better platforms for that kind of racing.

I personally think this goes back to the stigma of conservative tuning over in the UK. Over here power figures like the ones you posted idols are achieved on hybrid turbos which much better/linear power bands. The only practical use for a big turbo is top end power, and cramming a lot of boost into it at those high rpms (because down low boost is close to non existant until 5krpm, and at that point you have what, 2-2.5k to work with?). So honestly from my own experience and knowledge, I just don't see the point in going big turbo, especially on a tiny 4 cyl engine, and on top of that tuning it to moderate boost levels. A hybrid turbo at high boost levels would compete, all while doing it faster, smoother, cheaper.

The TT is imo an autocross, time attack, track car. Not an airstrip, drag racing car. Sure, with enough work, anything can be achieved now a days and it's cool to see when something like that comes around, but it's usually highly impractical, and I feel in this case it's pretty much the desire to go BT just to say "I'm BT".

Needless to say, it's all personal preference and yada yada. I think the average person or enthusiast buys a car like a TT/EVO/STI/S4 for it's handling and "fun factor" which you really don't get up top in the power band. I like these cars for their agility and "torque-y" nature, how fast they spool up and how there is power (and lots of it) in almost all ranges of rpm. Something you can't really have in a big turbo setup. I'd rather have a proper drag car for top end power and high speed runs.


----------



## TT Tom TT

So I decided to continue in the stealth vain and give my coilovers a treatment of blend-in-black.

Before:










Dis-assembled and sanded:










Painted:










Re-assembled:


----------



## manikm

Urgh 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## rocker tt.

What on earth are you doing?? Stealth coil overs why, who's going to see them?? :roll: :lol: !!


----------



## Gonzalo1495

rocker tt. said:


> What on earth are you doing?? Stealth coil overs why, who's going to see them?? :roll: :lol: !!


He probably wants to race his mechanic for pinks, so obviously when his mechanic has the car up on a lift, he won't be able to see he has some snazzy aftermarket coil overs :lol: :lol:


----------



## TT Tom TT

I don't want them to be visible through the front arches ! This car has to look as stock as possible without it compromising performance too much.


----------



## intott

What sort of paint have you used? Isn't it just going to crack away from the springs?

I also haven't seen a picture or your actual car. Any old ones you'd care the share?


----------



## TT Tom TT

intott said:


> What sort of paint have you used? Isn't it just going to crack away from the springs?
> 
> I also haven't seen a picture or your actual car. Any old ones you'd care the share?


More than likely which is why I was going to use plasti-dip instead. We'll see how it holds up. I don't actually! It's just a fairly stock looking dreary 225 with 18" RS4 9 spokes and the ugly grills with standard valance.


----------



## bdc6570

its look good.. I get why you painted them 8) I'm aiming to follow the same principle looking "stock" but with added up grades 8) .Interesting though my wife did ask why I was taking so much time and effort to clean the inlet manifold and up grade the nest of hoes which no one will ever see..sometime people just don't get it!


----------



## Beunhaas

After a few times of getting them warm, al parts and adjusters are going to 'stick' to eachother due to the paint :lol:


----------



## DC240S

I respect its your car.

However 400bhp and budget coilovers? - I personally feel stage 1 is plenty fast enough (theres always something faster!) and would put the most funds into enabling greater speed into and out of corners and handling/stopping.

DC


----------



## TT Tom TT

Beunhaas said:


> After a few times of getting them warm, al parts and adjusters are going to 'stick' to eachother due to the paint :lol:


Oh crap, let's hope not >_<...


----------



## TT Tom TT

DC240S said:


> I respect its your car.
> 
> However 400bhp and budget coilovers? - I personally feel stage 1 is plenty fast enough (theres always something faster!) and would put the most funds into enabling greater speed into and out of corners and handling/stopping.
> 
> DC


I have no idea what people have against budget coilovers, I know people who have used TA Technix budget coilovers on their drift cars and they are absolutely fine. They're a drastic improvement over the 14 year old shocks that were present on my car, to think they aren't is insanity - not only that but they're all still adjustable too! coilovers don't keep you on the road, tyres do and I plan on going to 255's hence why I got the spacers (with advice from Madmax).


----------



## TT Tom TT

Tyres have arrived! 255/35/18

Coilovers are still looking very good and stealthy too, paint hasn't flaked off and the ride is great! Just waiting for my OZ Superleggera 18's to finish being refurbished and then we can get the tyres fitted balanced and on the car with the wheels and then we can get a proper geometry alignment done!


----------



## 3TT3

Call me a cynic but its a bit MLK "I have a dream" atm.
I too have pos coilovers  but I wouldnt use em as the main pics in my "build thread".. Mines more of a mod thread really :lol: .
I can see where you have certain opinions about more extreme TT mods n who has the best ones (Opinions I mean), but hey if gonna criticise or praise maybe some ,whats happened up to now on yours?, how the lightening has affected things,my engine mods before n after results ,even appearance pics before n after?.
Like the wmi, hows that working out?
Course you may just be waiting to WOW us  . I am too with my respray :lol: but my respray guy actually is damn slow ;(

Its ok tho show us how crap it looks and before figures n stuff.. more WOW factor.


----------



## TT Tom TT

3TT3 said:


> Call me a cynic but its a bit MLK "I have a dream" atm.
> I too have pos coilovers  but I wouldnt use em as the main pics in my "build thread".. Mines more of a mod thread really :lol: .
> I can see where you have certain opinions about more extreme TT mods n who has the best ones (Opinions I mean), but hey if gonna criticise or praise maybe some ,whats happened up to now on yours?, how the lightening has affected things,my engine mods before n after results ,even appearance pics before n after?.
> Like the wmi, hows that working out?
> Course you may just be waiting to WOW us  . I am too with my respray :lol: but my respray guy actually is damn slow ;(
> 
> Its ok tho show us how crap it looks and before figures n stuff.. more WOW factor.


It's going to come together very quickly matey, I expect it to be finished in a couple of months. It's just waiting around for various bits and pieces!


----------



## TT Tom TT

So today:

OZ Racing Superleggeras have been successfully acid-dipped and powder coated in an OEM silver.

They have then been balanced to the new tyres (255/35, special thanks to Madmax for explaining that 255/35's will be fine on an 8J rim otherwise I wouldn't have had the nerve) and fitted.


----------



## Madmax199

Looking good, get ready for the 'spec' gestapo to get all upset and come tell you how it should not functionally work. Job well done Tom for stepping out of that box!


----------



## 3TT3

They look ok too , but its not so much a q of "will they work" ,its more a q of max and min recommended fittings .
I use 245/30/20 on 8j and what you might politely call "budget tyres" .
I had some 225/35/20 sunny tyres on 7.5 j rims , which some tosspot fitter managed to rip some of the rubber around the beading on while removing 
Whats 0.5 cm oversize per side..not a lot ,but Id be less likely to try it on cheaper tyres with a low profile.
Watch out for tyre rubbing at the join between the body and the rear bumper if you go too low.
Whatever works for you.


----------



## NickG

Can I see them at more of an angle?

If they don't bulge too much it makes me wonder if 275 would fit my 9J wheels!!


----------



## Madmax199

NickG said:


> Can I see them at more of an angle?
> 
> If they don't bulge too much it makes me wonder if 275 would fit my 9J wheels!!


I love it when people talk about thing they know nothing about except what they read on the Internet or "spec sheets". Brace yourself for more keyboard experts to come and tell you how the combo doesn't and shouldn't work.

In the real world where actual experience counts, I'll answer that for you Nick: YES it will fit and work very well. I have mounted and raced/competed with more than 20 sets of 275s on 9J wheels. That was my preffered size for circuit racing on the evo (I used 315 for sprints and hillclimbs). I have also ran that size on the TT way back in the days. First I ran the 275 square on all 4 -- then I used them in the back in a staggered setup 315/275 front/back (the stagger was to temporarily masked the understeer until I get the suspension sorted, and it allowed plenty of induced rotation).

PS: I'll find some pics of the sidewall on 275 on 9j for you.


----------



## jamman

That combo doesn't work :wink:


----------



## NickG

Madmax199 said:


> NickG said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can I see them at more of an angle?
> 
> If they don't bulge too much it makes me wonder if 275 would fit my 9J wheels!!
> 
> 
> 
> I love it when people talk about thing they know nothing about except what they read on the Internet or "spec sheets". Brace yourself for more keyboard experts to come and tell you how the combo doesn't and shouldn't work.
> 
> In the real world where actual experience counts, I'll answer that for you Nick: YES it will fit and work very well. I have mounted and raced/competed with more than 20 sets of 275s on 9J wheels. That was my preffered size for circuit racing on the evo (I used 315 for sprints and hillclimbs). I have also ran that size on the TT way back in the days. First I ran the 275 square on all 4 -- then I used them in the back in a staggered setup 315/275 front/back (the stagger was to temporarily masked the understeer until I get the suspension sorted, and it allowed plenty of induced rotation).
> 
> PS: I'll find some pics of the sidewall on 275 on 9j for you.
Click to expand...

If you can, that would be great dude! Gives me an option for the next time tyres need changing!



jamman said:


> That combo doesn't work :wink:


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## ProjectMick

Yup, your wheels will fall off within 100 meters with those tyres on.

OZs look nice on - that style of wheel really suits the TT IMO.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Madmax199 said:


> Looking good, get ready for the 'spec' gestapo to get all upset and come tell you how it should not functionally work. Job well done Tom for stepping out of that box!


All thanks to you matey !



3TT3 said:


> They look ok too , but its not so much a q of "will they work" ,its more a q of max and min recommended fittings .
> I use 245/30/20 on 8j and what you might politely call "budget tyres" .
> I had some 225/35/20 sunny tyres on 7.5 j rims , which some tosspot fitter managed to rip some of the rubber around the beading on while removing
> Whats 0.5 cm oversize per side..not a lot ,but Id be less likely to try it on cheaper tyres with a low profile.
> Watch out for tyre rubbing at the join between the body and the rear bumper if you go too low.
> Whatever works for you.


I had 4 different mechanics all doing the job for me yesterday at 5:30, they put in a team effort to get it all done quickly and they fit the tyres with absolutely no problem at all! It was funny considering most garages were saying that they wouldn't do it and it wouldn't fit etc... They don't even look bent in at all, they look like they belong on the wheel! Crazy. They won't rub on the bumper though mate as 255/35 is the same profile as having 225/40. Car doesn't know the different short of giving more grip and better braking !



NickG said:


> Can I see them at more of an angle?
> 
> If they don't bulge too much it makes me wonder if 275 would fit my 9J wheels!!


I can do soon but I can tell you without a doubt that 275 will be absolutely fine on 9J just through very basic mathematics off of the top of my head... 8J = 255... 255/8 = 33mm per inch approx 9J = 275... 275/9 = Just under 31mm per inch approx so the side-wall is being flexed in less. 33mm per inch seems to be more than fine !

P.S. I found the brake fluid that you recommended to me for a little cheaper: http://www.montgomery-motorsport.co.uk/ ... fluid.html


----------



## TT Tom TT

ProjectMick said:


> Yup, your wheels will fall off within 100 meters with those tyres on.
> 
> OZs look nice on - that style of wheel really suits the TT IMO.


Thanks! I think so too, the intention is rotational weight saving, the fact that they look so nice is purely a bonus :mrgreen:!


----------



## NickG

TT Tom TT said:


> NickG said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can I see them at more of an angle?
> 
> If they don't bulge too much it makes me wonder if 275 would fit my 9J wheels!!
> 
> 
> 
> I can do soon but I can tell you without a doubt that 275 will be absolutely fine on 9J just through very basic mathematics off of the top of my head... 8J = 255... 255/8 = 33mm per inch approx 9J = 275... 275/9 = Just under 31mm per inch approx so the side-wall is being flexed in less. 33mm per inch seems to be more than fine !
> 
> P.S. I found the brake fluid that you recommended to me for a little cheaper: http://www.montgomery-motorsport.co.uk/ ... fluid.html
Click to expand...

Yeah i know in theory, just wanted to see how they look like that really!

Good price on the fluid, like i say, we have a local guy who does it for tenner a bottle!


----------



## Madmax199

jamman said:


> That combo doesn't work :wink:


Lol!


----------



## TT Tom TT

NickG said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NickG said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can I see them at more of an angle?
> 
> If they don't bulge too much it makes me wonder if 275 would fit my 9J wheels!!
> 
> 
> 
> I can do soon but I can tell you without a doubt that 275 will be absolutely fine on 9J just through very basic mathematics off of the top of my head... 8J = 255... 255/8 = 33mm per inch approx 9J = 275... 275/9 = Just under 31mm per inch approx so the side-wall is being flexed in less. 33mm per inch seems to be more than fine !
> 
> P.S. I found the brake fluid that you recommended to me for a little cheaper: http://www.montgomery-motorsport.co.uk/ ... fluid.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah i know in theory, just wanted to see how they look like that really!
> 
> Good price on the fluid, like i say, we have a local guy who does it for tenner a bottle!
Click to expand...

Okay, you win! Haha :mrgreen:...


----------



## 3TT3

its really not that hard to work out for yourself,on moderate fittings 
For tyres with a profile below 50 (and it gets worse as you go lower profile)you should avoid fitting them on wheels whose seating width is below 80% of the tread width .
Aside from tables and the vagaries of wheel diameter .

7.5j=190.5 mm , 80% of a 235 tyre= 188 mm ok .80% of a 245 tyre =196 mm, not ok.
8.0j=203.2 mm , 80% of a 245 tyre= as above so ok .80% of a 255 tyre = 204 mm omg my rim is only 79.something % , the wheels gonna fall off not really  but if you go by 80% rule its out of limits.
80% isnt an ideal fitting either.

Couldnt be arsed workin out 8.5J  but for a 235/35/19 tyre the ideal rim width is supposed to be 8.17 inches (not a common size  ,some oem wheels for that tyre are 8.25J so a compromise 
9.0j= 228.6 mm , 80% of a 265 tyre= 212 mm .80% of a 275 tyre only 220 mm , in fact a 285 tyre would just squeak in under the 80% rule(not that many would fit a 285 on) ,but theres more to it than that, wider tyres greater distance to the sidewalls,profile and wheel diameter . As those things progress the ideal width increases.
Just like for tyres above 50 profile the rim width "need" decreases.


----------



## Gonzalo1495

NickG said:


> Can I see them at more of an angle?
> 
> If they don't bulge too much it makes me wonder if 275 would fit my 9J wheels!!


275 will absolutely fit a 9j wheel. The tire brand plays a marginal difference tbh but it should be a square or close to square setup. 
I know this because I have my wheels and tires in front of me right now in that same size :twisted:


----------



## TT Tom TT

Note to self, these specs for geometry alignment:

Front:
- As much negative camber as your hardware allows (-3.5 deg being the sweet spot on street tyres)

- As much positive caster as possible (+10 deg being the practical limit)

- Zero toe

Rear:
- Rear camber between -1.3 to -1.8 (-1.5 being the sweet spot or meat of the usable range)

- Slight rear toe-in: 0.15 degrees either side


----------



## TT Tom TT

AET-380 has now had the turbine step remove by Badger5 :mrgreen:


----------



## Madmax199

Looking good Tom! Much better than the rough and restricting casting on most hybrids. Any other area massaged? BTW, besides having to make your own gasket, there is room for improvement (the wastegate divider wall can be knocked down and the turbine exit throat can be opened into a bell mouth for better flow).


----------



## TT Tom TT

Madmax199 said:


> Looking good Tom! Much better than the rough and restricting casting on most hybrids. Any other area massaged? BTW, besides having to make your own gasket, there is room for improvement (the wastegate divider wall can be knocked down and the turbine exit throat can be opened into a bell mouth for better flow).


That makes complete sense actually but I've only just had this done and sent back to me so I think I'm going to keep it as such. Why was the waste gate divider implemented max? Over-engineering?

On a side note, I've just got back from the weigh-bridge and the result was very good considering my car looks totally stock besides the wheels. All engine bay plastics present, back seats present and heavy heated front seats present and of course AC radio etc...


----------



## TT Tom TT

Rifle-drilled rods in 'da buildin'...


----------



## TT Tom TT

New braking system collected.


----------



## NickG

Much better option then Boxster rear calipers :lol:


----------



## jamman

NickG said:


> Much better option then Boxster rear calipers :lol:


Nah a man with Tom's experience would never have made that school boy mistake, likely misinformation

:wink:


----------



## StrokerTT32

I am also thinking about this AET K04-380 hybrid turbo. Still cannot decide between this or K04 from TFSI... Hope soon I can see Yours results with this turbo.


----------



## TT Tom TT

SwIeRsZcZ said:


> I am also thinking about this AET K04-380 hybrid turbo. Still cannot decide between this or K04 from TFSI... Hope soon I can see Yours results with this turbo.


Results will indeed be interesting - I can see why you are torn !


----------



## BigTurbo21

Good work Tom...Can't wait to see it finished


----------



## 1781cc

Subscribed - good read so far mate [smiley=dude.gif]


----------



## TT Tom TT

BigTurbo21 said:


> Good work Tom...Can't wait to see it finished





1781cc said:


> Subscribed - good read so far mate [smiley=dude.gif]


Thanks for the kind words ... Build is going to really take shape within the next few weeks.


----------



## rusTTy_racer

Great work fella. Given all the mods how are you dealing with the insurance? I guess it must be kinda crazy given the work you have done! :?


----------



## Gonzalo1495

rusTTy_racer said:


> Great work fella. Given all the mods how are you dealing with the insurance? I guess it must be kinda crazy given the work you have done! :?


I imagine many of us take the same approach we take with the women in our lives "Don't ask, don't tell" :-*


----------



## jamman

Gonzalo1495 said:


> rusTTy_racer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great work fella. Given all the mods how are you dealing with the insurance? I guess it must be kinda crazy given the work you have done! :?
> 
> 
> 
> I imagine many of us take the same approach we take with the women in our lives "Don't ask, don't tell" :-*
Click to expand...

Hope you are all good Gonzy  but 'm quite surprised at that statement

I've always been all mods declared, I'd hate to have a prang and be refused payout because of modifications, for a small sum I have complete cover and peace of mind.


----------



## TT Tom TT

*UPDATE:* Chinafold has been ported and worked, copper gasket has been matched and so has the turbo hotside. The results are amazing and I am starting to question whether this can be called a K04 any more :lol:...

The last two pictures are the machining to the turbo outlet done by Badger 5 too, thought I'd include them for good measure as well...


----------



## infidel.uk

shame he dont do just the chinafold ported, id buy one.


----------



## IPG3.6

the turbo inlet where there's the "hump" in housing.... looking a little thin in that area or is that still enough material to keep it's integrity???

especially when it's going to get effing hot in that area...


----------



## Mondo

ianpgonzaga said:


> ...looking a little thin in that area...


Was thinking that myself... :? The section in the 1st pic does look a little thin. Hey ho, hopefully will be fine.


----------



## TT Tom TT

ianpgonzaga said:


> the turbo inlet where there's the "hump" in housing.... looking a little thin in that area or is that still enough material to keep it's integrity???
> 
> especially when it's going to get effing hot in that area...


There's no difference in the thickness of the inlet area to the outside and the thickness of the inlet area to the bolts. I am confident that it will be fine .

I mean, people are using Relentless V4 manifolds, they're taking there time to crack and they're 3mm of stainless steel... The thinnest point of my turbo flange is 7mm which obviously widens from the flange so I'm quite happy about it's structural integrity.


----------



## Beunhaas

TT Tom TT said:


> ianpgonzaga said:
> 
> 
> 
> the turbo inlet where there's the "hump" in housing.... looking a little thin in that area or is that still enough material to keep it's integrity???
> 
> especially when it's going to get effing hot in that area...
> 
> 
> 
> There's no difference in the thickness of the inlet area to the outside and the thickness of the inlet area to the bolts. I am confident that it will be fine .
> 
> I mean, people are using Relentless V4 manifolds, they're taking there time to crack and they're 3mm of stainless steel... The thinnest point of my turbo flange is 7mm which obviously widens from the flange so I'm quite happy about it's structural integrity.
Click to expand...

The cracking is not all determined by material thickness but more the length of the expanding tube. i dont see any problems in the hotside either. What wallthickness do you think a cast manifold like the chinafold has? Probably less than that 7 mm.

Keep on the progress [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


----------



## TT Tom TT

Beunhaas said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ianpgonzaga said:
> 
> 
> 
> the turbo inlet where there's the "hump" in housing.... looking a little thin in that area or is that still enough material to keep it's integrity???
> 
> especially when it's going to get effing hot in that area...
> 
> 
> 
> There's no difference in the thickness of the inlet area to the outside and the thickness of the inlet area to the bolts. I am confident that it will be fine .
> 
> I mean, people are using Relentless V4 manifolds, they're taking there time to crack and they're 3mm of stainless steel... The thinnest point of my turbo flange is 7mm which obviously widens from the flange so I'm quite happy about it's structural integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The cracking is not all determined by material thickness but more the length of the expanding tube. i dont see any problems in the hotside either. What wallthickness do you think a cast manifold like the chinafold has? Probably less than that 7 mm.
> 
> Keep on the progress [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Click to expand...

True, totally forgot to think about the thickness of the chinafold which will be even thinner yet despite this has the reliability of a tank.

Thanks beun, hopefully finished sooner rather than later.


----------



## TT-Dru

God work Tom [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Quick question for you. Will your downpipe need any fettling to fit the chinafold? 
Reason I ask is I'm giving Bill's kit some serious consideration, but will probably drop the car off with him (along with a boot full of cash!) to supply and fit, but would like to have the dp and decat/sports cat in place. Already have cat-back fitted.


----------



## TT Tom TT

TT-Dru said:


> God work Tom [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
> 
> Quick question for you. Will your downpipe need any fettling to fit the chinafold?
> Reason I ask is I'm giving Bill's kit some serious consideration, but will probably drop the car off with him (along with a boot full of cash!) to supply and fit, but would like to have the dp and decat/sports cat in place. Already have cat-back fitted.


The down pipe fits to the turbo hot-side outlet. The Chinafold fits to the cylinder head and the turbo hot-side inlet so a "regular k04-023 3 inch down pipe" will be fine.


----------



## TT-Dru

TT Tom TT said:


> TT-Dru said:
> 
> 
> 
> God work Tom [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
> 
> Quick question for you. Will your downpipe need any fettling to fit the chinafold?
> Reason I ask is I'm giving Bill's kit some serious consideration, but will probably drop the car off with him (along with a boot full of cash!) to supply and fit, but would like to have the dp and decat/sports cat in place. Already have cat-back fitted.
> 
> 
> 
> The down pipe fits to the turbo hot-side outlet. The Chinafold fits to the cylinder head and the turbo hot-side inlet so a "stock k04-023 3 inch down pipe" will be fine.
Click to expand...

Cheers dude.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Small update: I have used a diamond surfacing plate to smooth the hot-side inlet flange and the manifold collector flange as I have decided to run gasketless.


----------



## Gonzalo1495

Very very nice Tom! My eyes are glued to this one [smiley=book2.gif]


----------



## intott

TT Tom TT said:


> Small update: I have used a diamond surfacing plate to smooth the hot-side inlet flange and the manifold collector flange as I have decided to run gasketless.


Carefull Tom. As well as smooth both mating surfaces need to be flat. When doing by hand you find that more material is removed from the outside edges.

PS looking good mate!


----------



## TT Tom TT

Gonzalo1495 said:


> Very very nice Tom! My eyes are glued to this one [smiley=book2.gif]





intott said:


> Carefull Tom. As well as smooth both mating surfaces need to be flat. When doing by hand you find that more material is removed from the outside edges.
> 
> PS looking good mate!


Fingers crossed that we all get done before Christmas ... I'll make sure to keep a flat finish on it, collector and flange were already very flat but collector has a few uneven casting nicks and knacks


----------



## D13hpd95

TT Tom TT said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very very nice Tom! My eyes are glued to this one [smiley=book2.gif]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> intott said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carefull Tom. As well as smooth both mating surfaces need to be flat. When doing by hand you find that more material is removed from the outside edges.
> 
> PS looking good mate!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fingers crossed that we all get done before Christmas ... I'll make sure to keep a flat finish on it, collector and flange were already very flat but collector has a few uneven casting nicks and knacks
Click to expand...

tom where did you get the china fold manifold from? im trying to find one but can only find it in a deal with a different turbo build......


----------



## 3TT3

Just had a look at pg1 again to see what sort of turbo will be in it. 
That green text doesnt encourage reading  .
A hybrid , for TT purposes is really some form of K04 modded ? .Whats cost like on that ?
I know its part of an overall package,but isolated cost?
Ta


----------



## infidel.uk

D13hpd95 said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very very nice Tom! My eyes are glued to this one [smiley=book2.gif]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> intott said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carefull Tom. As well as smooth both mating surfaces need to be flat. When doing by hand you find that more material is removed from the outside edges.
> 
> PS looking good mate!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fingers crossed that we all get done before Christmas ... I'll make sure to keep a flat finish on it, collector and flange were already very flat but collector has a few uneven casting nicks and knacks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> tom where did you get the china fold manifold from? im trying to find one but can only find it in a deal with a different turbo build......
Click to expand...

i too was wanting a ported chinafold, but since i couldn't locate one, i ended up rebuilding with the oem manifold in place, itll do for a few months until these chinafolds become more readily available.

3TT3 i paid 900 quid for my k04 hybrid , if that helps ?


----------



## TT Tom TT

D13hpd95 said:


> tom where did you get the china fold manifold from? im trying to find one but can only find it in a deal with a different turbo build......


I imported it from China, hence the name. The difficult bit is finding someone who will port them. Bill 'Badger5' Brockbank used to port them but he takes the runners to a knife-edge in the collector area which causes heat spots so I set about finding someone else who would port the Chinafold in a different way. The hard part is finding the person to do the porting, the cost of that porting is more than the cost of the manifold as grinding away at cast material isn't easy and requires carbide burrs which repeatedly die during the process so that's another expense as to why the labour is expensive.

The only way you could get one is buying the turbo kit as a whole as you mentioned.



infidel.uk said:


> i too was wanting a ported chinafold, but since i couldn't locate one, i ended up rebuilding with the oem manifold in place, itll do for a few months until these chinafolds become more readily available.


I don't think they are ever going to be readily available. They've been around now for 5 years and it only happened once (Badger5) for a brief period and as mentioned, I personally think they could be ported a better way than the way he went about doing these (my personal opinion).



3TT3 said:


> Just had a look at pg1 again to see what sort of turbo will be in it.
> *That green text doesnt encourage reading  .*
> _A hybrid , for TT purposes is really some form of K04 modded ? .Whats cost like on that ?_
> I know its part of an overall package,but isolated cost?
> Ta


*I've changed the text colours around, thanks for the feedback 8)!*

_It cost me 1150 for the unit from AET, then an additional 70 pounds to have the hotside outlet machined properly as AET supply it with a lip :-|... Then it was another 40 for the hotside inlet to be perfectly shape-matched (48mm<-->48mm) to the Chinafold's collector._


----------



## TT Tom TT

Does anyone know a good place to get my car corner-weighted from personal experience :lol:?


----------



## D13hpd95

TT Tom TT said:


> D13hpd95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> tom where did you get the china fold manifold from? im trying to find one but can only find it in a deal with a different turbo build......
> 
> 
> 
> I imported it from China, hence the name. The difficult bit is finding someone who will port them. Bill 'Badger5' Brockbank used to port them but he takes the runners to a knife-edge in the collector area which causes heat spots so I set about finding someone else who would port the Chinafold in a different way. The hard part is finding the person to do the porting, the cost of that porting is more than the cost of the manifold as grinding away at cast material isn't easy and requires carbide burrs which repeatedly die during the process so that's another expense as to why the labour is expensive.
> 
> The only way you could get one is buying the turbo kit as a whole as you mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> infidel.uk said:
> 
> 
> 
> i too was wanting a ported chinafold, but since i couldn't locate one, i ended up rebuilding with the oem manifold in place, itll do for a few months until these chinafolds become more readily available.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think they are ever going to be readily available. They've been around now for 5 years and it only happened once (Badger5) for a brief period and as mentioned, I personally think they could be ported a better way than the way he went about doing these (my personal opinion).
> 
> 
> 
> 3TT3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just had a look at pg1 again to see what sort of turbo will be in it.
> *That green text doesnt encourage reading  .*
> _A hybrid , for TT purposes is really some form of K04 modded ? .Whats cost like on that ?_
> I know its part of an overall package,but isolated cost?
> Ta
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I've changed the text colours around, thanks for the feedback 8)!*
> 
> _It cost me 1150 for the unit from AET, then an additional 70 pounds to have the hotside outlet machined properly as AET supply it with a lip :-|... Then it was another 40 for the hotside inlet to be perfectly shape-matched (48mm<-->48mm) to the Chinafold's collector._
Click to expand...

Have you got a link or contact for where you got yours,


----------



## TT Tom TT

Here's all the pictures from the completion of the build, I am currently running the engine in using Miller's specially formulated running in oil which is a harsh mineral oil.

_Bores of engine honed, turbo fitted to 3" down-pipe:_










_Sump and rocker cover chemically cleaned:_










_New oil pump and chain fitted:_










_Rifle-drilled forged H-beam rods fitted with new Gotze plasma-coated piston rings:_










_HG Motorsport stealth intercooler fitted, need to spray the jubilee clips!:_










_Hex-head Haldex Powertrak insert fitted:_










_Brembo GT Junior's with EBC yellow stuff pads and Braided brake lines fitted:_










_High flow fuel pump 265 lph fitted, A35-HV:_










_Turbo and Ported Chinafold before the collector was skimmed flat:_










_Car nearly back together all nice and clean_










_All back together, what FMIC :lol:?_


----------



## Gonzalo1495

10/10. Amazing work, perfect list of mods. Nothing else needs to be said, kudos!


----------



## Fastasaudi

Very nice work... love the stealth approach... 8)

CJ


----------



## watersbluebird

A brilliant read.


----------



## anthony_839

hi mate how you getting on with the haldex insert? 
thanks


----------



## jamman

Good luck with the build everything's looking good so far.


----------



## Beunhaas

Cant wait to see what power its going to make [smiley=dude.gif]

Little off topic, are those pictures shot with a potato or something? Not that i make those super sharp pictures like intott but this... Definitely invest in a good camera when budget allows. Can make pictures from so much more cool things than cars alone


----------



## TT Tom TT

Thanks for the compliments everyone, they're appreciated .

@Anthony, Haldex insert is all good. Rear feels much more planted which is good considering all the weight I've removed from the rear end.

@Beun, I took the photos using the camera on my HTC One M8. I don't actually have my own SLR are equivalent camera sadly. A couple of the pictures weren't the best but they illustrated what was required I suppose :lol:...


----------



## Jay-225

Looking good young Thomas 

Will be watching with interest as will very likely follow suit in the coming year ( Turbo/Rods )... when is it getting mapped ? any plans on wmi ? Fingers crossed that Fuel Pump holds out , keep an eye on the AFR etc ( btw you have a A36-hv ). Is the air filter sticking up to much ? looks like it will be touching the underside of the bonnet... Pictures are'nt to bad and look ok on the laptop, can defiantly see what you need to see


----------



## TT Tom TT

Jay-225 said:


> Looking good young Thomas
> 
> Will be watching with interest as will very likely follow suit in the coming year ( Turbo/Rods )... when is it getting mapped ? any plans on wmi ? Fingers crossed that Fuel Pump holds out , keep an eye on the AFR etc ( btw you have a A36-hv ). Is the air filter sticking up to much ? looks like it will be touching the underside of the bonnet... Pictures are'nt to bad and look ok on the laptop, can defiantly see what you need to see


Should be getting mapped after it's been run-in. It will be mapped utilising dual-port WMI I believe but I'm not yet certain. I know a chemical company which I will be using to get 99.99% Virgin Methanol and de-ionised water. I will be mixing the two by weight and running a 75/25 mix of meth/water (that's the plan any way). My fingers are crossed about the fuel pump too [smiley=bomb.gif] ... The air filter is a small problem, it does indeed rub on the bonnet but I have had this problem with all of my aftermarket filters that I have tried so it's just something I have decided to live with [smiley=bigcry.gif]...


----------



## TT Tom TT

On the plus side, I have got a new MOT with no CAT and no head-lamp washers :










And on the bad side, I have an oil-leak somewhere...


----------



## Matt B

TT Tom TT said:


> Jay-225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking good young Thomas
> 
> Will be watching with interest as will very likely follow suit in the coming year ( Turbo/Rods )... when is it getting mapped ? any plans on wmi ? Fingers crossed that Fuel Pump holds out , keep an eye on the AFR etc ( btw you have a A36-hv ). Is the air filter sticking up to much ? looks like it will be touching the underside of the bonnet... Pictures are'nt to bad and look ok on the laptop, can defiantly see what you need to see
> 
> 
> 
> Should be getting mapped after it's been run-in. It will be mapped utilising dual-port WMI I believe but I'm not yet certain. I know a chemical company which I will be using to get 99.99% Virgin Methanol and de-ionised water. I will be mixing the two by weight and running a 75/25 mix of meth/water (that's the plan any way). My fingers are crossed about the fuel pump too [smiley=bomb.gif] ... The air filter is a small problem, it does indeed rub on the bonnet but I have had this problem with all of my aftermarket filters that I have tried so it's just something I have decided to live with [smiley=bigcry.gif]...
Click to expand...

Why 75/25 ? I can't see why you would want to go more than 50:50. I've been running meth in my TT for more than 5 years and I can't say I've ever needed a stronger mix. If anything I have gone less than 50% meth trying to get a mixture that's less eager to burst into flames.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Matt B said:


> Why 75/25 ? I can't see why you would want to go more than 50:50. I've been running meth in my TT for more than 5 years and I can't say I've ever needed a stronger mix. If anything I have gone less than 50% meth trying to get a mixture that's less eager to burst into flames.


----------



## Matt B

Fair enough but I can't say I've ever needed any more knock suppression even when running an aggressive timing curve.

Just remember the Health and Safety considerations with this stuff.

It's toxic by absorption through the skin
It can destroy the optic nerve 
It's highly flammable.

Once you are down around 40% it's actually harder to ignite. Could buy you a bit of time in an emergency.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Matt B said:


> Fair enough but I can't say I've ever needed any more knock suppression even when running an aggressive timing curve.
> 
> Just remember the Health and Safety considerations with this stuff.
> 
> It's toxic by absorption through the skin
> It can destroy the optic nerve
> It's highly flammable.
> 
> Once you are down around 40% it's actually harder to ignite. Could buy you a bit of time in an emergency.


I intend on mixing my Meth' and water whilst wearings two sets of gloves and a filtration mask in a controlled environment.

Petrol is more flammable than Methanol so I don't intend on treating it any differently than I would petrol. I think someone has mentioned that the flames can be invisible though which is certainly dangerous .


----------



## Matt B

Yeah flames are invisible and meth doesn't smell so you can't tell if you have a leak.

Difference with petrol is that the tank is usually under the car surrounded by a lot of strengthening where most people put the meth tank in the boot and in a rear end situation you could find that tank being ruptured inside the cabin. The choice is yours but if it was me I would want the weakest meth solution I could get away with.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Matt B said:


> Yeah flames are invisible and meth doesn't smell so you can't tell if you have a leak.
> 
> Difference with petrol is that the tank is usually under the car surrounded by a lot of strengthening where most people put the meth tank in the boot and in a rear end situation you could find that tank being ruptured inside the cabin. The choice is yours but if it was me I would want the weakest meth solution I could get away with.


Seems like good advice, I'll stick to 50/50 by weight then? or maybe 40/60?


----------



## rocker tt.

Yeah I would have to agree with Matt B on water/methanol ratio's I have been using 50/50 mix for last 3yrs with no problem's it works as I was advised it would by 3 different tuning firms don't go over 50/50 they all said & I took their advice I mean it's their job building & maintaining high- performance engine's it's in their own interest's to give good advice that's the way I see it. Best of luck with your build.......junior :lol: :lol:


----------



## Beunhaas

Tom, didnt max advice you to run water only?
Only in case of antifreeze 10% meth should be added.


----------



## intott

For what its worth, the snow performance pump states not to use a flammable fluid - water meth at 50/50 is deemed a flammable fluid.


----------



## Gonzalo1495

Beunhaas said:


> Tom, didnt max advice you to run water only?
> Only in case of antifreeze 10% meth should be added.


This is correct

However I think Tom wants to be creative here and try something else like he stated a while back as to his reasoning behind running more methanol versus 50/50 or pure distilled water. More power to him imo


----------



## Beunhaas

Gonzalo1495 said:


> Beunhaas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tom, didnt max advice you to run water only?
> Only in case of antifreeze 10% meth should be added.
> 
> 
> 
> This is correct
> 
> However I think Tom wants to be creative here and try something else like he stated a while back as to his reasoning behind running more methanol versus 50/50 or pure distilled water. More power to him imo
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with being creative, but why would you try to reinvent the wheel while things are already tried and extensively logged [smiley=book2.gif]


----------



## TT Tom TT

I think given all the information available it's much safer to go for 50/50. Not only safeness but the fact that if you go to a tuner who does WMI and say you want to start experimenting with an atypical ratio, the results may not be the greatest. Not due to the ratio but perhaps due to the lack of experience due to people always sticking with 50/50. If I stick with 50/50 then I'm tailoring the ratio to their familiarity.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Decided to check on my manifold today given my car is starting to sound more and more tractor'ish with every run... Figured that the bolts between mani and turbo could be coming loose... They wobbled a smidge but they were tight so wondering if the bolts that were used were perhaps too long. Going to source some shorter wants and swap tomorrow and hope that turns my tractor back into a TT...

If not I'm assuming that something has cracked somewhere from me having the exhaust fixed via ratchet strapping it off of the prop-shaft [smiley=bigcry.gif] 

Please forgive my lack of coolant cover in the first photo! It was off the car :lol:.



















HOT HOT :!:


----------



## 3TT3

It does look warm 
Can you leave it on wastegate crack pressure till its run in a bit or maybe thats high anyway.
Go Go wmi system gadget !
I still have my unused egt gauge and sensor 
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1173826&hilit=+egt+gauge


----------



## TT Tom TT

3TT3 said:


> It does look warm
> Can you leave it on wastegate crack pressure till its run in a bit or maybe thats high anyway.
> Go Go wmi system gadget !
> I still have my unused egt gauge and sensor
> viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1173826&hilit=+egt+gauge


It's on actuator pressure at the mo', actuator is uprated though so it's responsible for up to 10 PSI . I would be interested as to how hot it's running at the moment all things considered. WMI to come before new year I hope .


----------



## IPG3.6

when running in are you still on your old map or are you on the new map bar a dumbed down version?


----------



## TT Tom TT

ianpgonzaga said:


> when running in are you still on your old map or are you on the new map bar a dumbed down version?


Old map with N75 disconnected which I think (possibly incorrectly), that it reverts it to a conservative and fuel-rich map.


----------



## Delta4

TT Tom TT said:


> ianpgonzaga said:
> 
> 
> 
> when running in are you still on your old map or are you on the new map bar a dumbed down version?
> 
> 
> 
> Old map with N75 disconnected which I think (possibly incorrectly), that it reverts it to a conservative and fuel-rich map.
Click to expand...

Is that a wise move running with the n75 disconnected ? so whats controlling the actuator/turbo :?:


----------



## NickG

Delta4 said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ianpgonzaga said:
> 
> 
> 
> when running in are you still on your old map or are you on the new map bar a dumbed down version?
> 
> 
> 
> Old map with N75 disconnected which I think (possibly incorrectly), that it reverts it to a conservative and fuel-rich map.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that a wise move running with the n75 disconnected ? so whats controlling the actuator/turbo :?:
Click to expand...

Very wise, runs on lowest boost possible (Provided it's been electronically disconnected?).


----------



## Delta4

Very wise, runs on lowest boost possible (Provided it's been electronically disconnected?).[/quote]

Thanks nick, your never to old to learn


----------



## TT Tom TT

Delta4 said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ianpgonzaga said:
> 
> 
> 
> when running in are you still on your old map or are you on the new map bar a dumbed down version?
> 
> 
> 
> Old map with N75 disconnected which I think (possibly incorrectly), that it reverts it to a conservative and fuel-rich map.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that a wise move running with the n75 disconnected ? so whats controlling the actuator/turbo :?:
Click to expand...

Actuator is controlling the turbo, I have an uprated actuator so maximum boost is only 10 PSI, I haven't taken it anywhere close to that though.

UPDATE: Today I found why my car sounded like a tractor, I undid the manifold to turbo bolts and found that the bolts used were not stainless steel or any other high-heat resistant compound. As a result the bolts have had their strength SEVERELY weakened from operating outside their temperature ranges. They have heat-stress broken inside the threads so I will need to get the turbo removed and have the holes re-tapped and new stainless bolts put in.

The question I have now, can the turbo be taken off by: Dropping the sub-frame, unbolting and wiggling away the downpipe and then undoing the remaining bolts and unhooking everything?


----------



## 3TT3

TT Tom TT said:


> UPDATE: Today I found why my car sounded like a tractor, I undid the manifold to turbo bolts and found that the bolts used were not stainless steel or any other high-heat resistant compound. As a result the bolts have had their strength SEVERELY weakened from operating outside their temperature ranges. They have heat-stress broken inside the threads so I will need to get the turbo removed and have the holes re-tapped and new stainless bolts put in.
> 
> The question I have now, can the turbo be taken off by: Dropping the sub-frame, unbolting and wiggling away the downpipe and then undoing the remaining bolts and unhooking everything?


Ack what a pia 
You mean all the bolts have sheared off?
I dont suppose the ends of these bolts stick out the other side of the turbo and you can grip em? Probly a v bad idea.
I think you got the housing gas flowed ?. probly best not to stress it 
Removal: must be a how to on here somewhere,Its supposed to be a bit of a btrd .
I think I saw subframe out and downpipe removed totally. Good thing is : no siezed on over time bolts that you cant undo (tryin to look on the bright side) .


----------



## Delta4

You can get that down pipe sitting correctly whilst your at it, having it strapped down may have contributed to the problem you have now.


----------



## IPG3.6

TT Tom TT said:


> The question I have now, can the turbo be taken off by: Dropping the sub-frame, unbolting and wiggling away the downpipe and then undoing the remaining bolts and unhooking everything?


yes do like this as you will need to access those oil drain bolts and easiest way is without subframe to piss you off and block you from installing them LOL


----------



## jamman

Tom ,can you not go back to whoever made the mistake in the first place and ask them to rectify it FOC ?


----------



## TT Tom TT

jamman said:


> Tom ,can you not go back to whoever made the mistake in the first place and ask them to rectify it FOC ?


Well I'm hoping something like that, I was never asked about which type of bolt to use and assumed it would be obvious that a bolt of high working temperature would be required, I.E. Stainless Steel or something along those lines. The bolt was fairly white when it was taken out. I am being told that the bolt doesn't look heat fractured but don't see how this is possible as the bolts that were used have a working maximum temperature of no more than 200oC which as we know isn't going to cut the mustard :?.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Sub-frame off, down-pipe off, prop-shaft off, drive-shaft off, transfer box off

Are all these required to remove the turbo and downpipe?


----------



## NickG

TT Tom TT said:


> Sub-frame off, down-pipe off, prop-shaft off, drive-shaft off, transfer box off
> 
> Are all these required to remove the turbo and downpipe?


Subframe off, downpipe pulled to the side, propshaft can stay, driveshaft can stay... Not sure on transfer box tbh.


----------



## 3TT3

Whats the verdict/new bolts etc?


----------



## TT Tom TT

3TT3 said:


> Whats the verdict/new bolts etc?


Got some Stainless ones now, rest of the exhaust is being fabbed to 3" with stock looking tail-pipes and down-pipe is being moved slightly so that it no longer rubs on the prop shaft


----------



## TT Tom TT

Exhaust is done 3" from turbo outlet to tail pipes, 1x 14" x 3.5" silencer with 3.5" tips (same as stock):

https://vid.me/HoXa


----------



## NickG

Looks smart!

Be sure to get some drive by vids up!


----------



## TT Tom TT

NickG said:


> Looks smart!
> 
> Be sure to get some drive by vids up!


Cheers! I will do at some point, still can't take the engine past 4k at the moment due to it being run in and being on actuator pressure with probably the wrong amount of fuel going in at various points (you already know this though).

Maybe I'll do one from idle to about 3k or so and then when we have meth on-board and it's been mapped and finished with results then I'll do the final video of the sound! I'm just hoping it's not too loud ... If not, no worries, just cut out some straight pipe and add another silencer no big deal but would rather not have to !


----------



## TT Tom TT

Small update:

Final weigh in after removal of A/C and fitted lighter weight 4 pot brakes: 1340kg which includes:
- All engine covers fitted
- Front heavy heated seats in place
- Rear seats in place
- Parcel shelf fitted
- 1/4 tank of fuel
- Full tank of windscreen wiper fluid

I am very, very, very happy with the weight achieved given the fact that these features above are left which make the car look stock under the bonnet / hood and on the inside!

I have also sprayed my stainless steel exhaust matte black so that it is now no longer visible from the rear of the car as you could see the shiny pipes underneath!

I also did the spark plugs today, I've done about 10k miles on BKR7E's at 0.7mm gap and think this may have been a little too long to go without changing them as they look a little corroded?


----------



## jamman

Shouldn't be after 10k Tom should be fine

Can you take closer/better pictures


----------



## Jay-225

jamman said:


> Shouldn't be after 10k Tom should be fine
> 
> Can you take closer/better pictures


Its because they are copper plugs, normally last about 5k from what i hear so 10k is good going :lol:

Tom i am using the iridium version which are a little more expensive but should last 30k ( apparently ! ) they have a 0.75 gap as std but should not be gaped as the tip may be damaged in the process. Car runs perfect with them fitted


----------



## TT Tom TT

jamman said:


> Shouldn't be after 10k Tom should be fine
> 
> Can you take closer/better pictures


It's the best I could manage on my phone, have read that around 5-10k miles is correct service interval for copper NGK's.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Jay-225 said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shouldn't be after 10k Tom should be fine
> 
> Can you take closer/better pictures
> 
> 
> 
> Its because they are cooper plugs, normally last about 5k from what i hear so 10k is good going :lol:
> 
> Tom i am using the iridium version which are a little more expensive but should last 30k ( apparently ! ) they have a 0.75 gap as std but should not be gaped as the tip may be damaged in the process. Car runs perfect with them fitted
Click to expand...

I was going to for longevity but I've read from multiple sources that the Iridium plugs are hype / lies. They're for the convenience of longer service intervals rather than outright performance and if there's one thing that I usually don't like to compromise on, it's performance :evil:!


----------



## 3TT3

All from reading  :
The big advantage of copper is supposed to be better heat transfer away from the centre electrode cos its s much fatter than platinum . Iridium , I dont know ,but I got the impression copper was the best choice .
US 1.8T tuning sites , Ive seen some mention of maybe getting as little as 5k out of the 7e's  , maybe something to do with lower octane fuel?. 8E's ..some I think have tried them , but you dont get good "cool runnings"
Wak , Im pretty sure reckons theyre good for 10k anyway(just like olden times ).. . I havent done 10k on mine so dunno :lol: 
The .7 gap is to allow for the gradual expansion of the gap,as coppers wear a little faster .8 is max recommended gap for a tuned/mapped 1.8T.

The plugs look ok to me ..light/medium brown around ceramics /electrodes .
Yours are v power,(cut in centre electrode), mine are regular flat ones .

Which is best? I dont know .If Id been offered a choice when buying Id have gone for the v power,sounds cooler anyway


----------



## Madmax199

The real difference between copper and iridium is copper is a better conducter for a plug core, so it will always give a better spark and performance. The problem with copper despite its far superior conductivity is that it is not as rugged a metal, so erosion and deformation happens much quicker than some other suitable metals. The other advantage with copper is that it doesn't overheat as quickly as iridium or platinum, so pre-ignition from heat is less likely with a copper plug. That's why many racers tend to only use copper plugs in their high performance engines.

Longevity is where the more exotic material (iridium, platinum, aluminum etc.) come into play. For day to day longevity an iridium plug will last longer but give away some performance. Besides lasting longer, there is zero advantage to using anything but copper plugs. The choice should be determined by the intended use of the car -- all out performance = copper.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Madmax199 said:


> The real difference between copper and iridium is copper is a better conducter for a plug core, so it will always give a better spark and performance. The problem with copper despite its far superior conductivity is that it is not as rugged a metal, so erosion and deformation happens much quicker than some other suitable metals. The other advantage with copper is that it doesn't overheat as quickly as iridium or platinum, so pre-ignition from heat is less likely with a copper plug. That's why many racers tend to only use copper plugs in their high performance engines.
> 
> Longevity is where the more exotic material (iridium, platinum, aluminum etc.) come into play. For day to day longevity an iridium plug will last longer but give away some performance. Besides lasting longer, there is zero advantage to using anything but copper plugs. The choice should be determined by the intended use of the car -- all out performance = copper.


I think this may be the first time I've ever completely nailed a subject without making at least 1 mistake, I must be learning [smiley=book2.gif] ...


----------



## Madmax199

TT Tom TT said:


> Madmax199 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real difference between copper and iridium is copper is a better conducter for a plug core, so it will always give a better spark and performance. The problem with copper despite its far superior conductivity is that it is not as rugged a metal, so erosion and deformation happens much quicker than some other suitable metals. The other advantage with copper is that it doesn't overheat as quickly as iridium or platinum, so pre-ignition from heat is less likely with a copper plug. That's why many racers tend to only use copper plugs in their high performance engines.
> 
> Longevity is where the more exotic material (iridium, platinum, aluminum etc.) come into play. For day to day longevity an iridium plug will last longer but give away some performance. Besides lasting longer, there is zero advantage to using anything but copper plugs. The choice should be determined by the intended use of the car -- all out performance = copper.
> 
> 
> 
> I think this may be the first time I've ever completely nailed a subject without making at least 1 mistake, I must be learning [smiley=book2.gif] ...
Click to expand...

Yeah, even a broken clock is known to be right twice a day! J/K you're learning and have an open mind, that my friend is the winning combination.


----------



## john.dixon63

What are cookbots?


----------



## Madmax199

john.dixon63 said:


> What are cookbots?


Defcons!


----------



## TT Tom TT

So, I've had my head taken off and I'm relieved to say it certainly looks like I had faulty stem seals fitted by the engine reconditioning company. I am dropping it off tomorrow to be reconditioned and to see what can be sorted out regarding some sort of reimbursement.

Feeling optimistic about having a smoke free engine !


----------



## 3TT3

That looks awfull 
but Ive never seen the exhaust ports on mine so I cant judge.


----------



## David C

3TT3 said:


> That looks awfull
> but Ive never seen the exhaust ports on mine so I cant judge.


Looks bad considering it has been rebuilt.
There used to be loads of scams with engine reconditioning, sometimes they got nothing more than a jet wash....!!


----------



## jamman

David C said:


> 3TT3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That looks awfull
> but Ive never seen the exhaust ports on mine so I cant judge.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks bad considering it has been rebuilt.
> There used to be loads of scams with engine reconditioning, sometimes they got nothing more than a jet wash....!!
Click to expand...

This ✔

There still are loads of fools going on ebay doing no research and getting scammed.

Is the same company doing the job this time Tom ?


----------



## TT Tom TT

jamman said:


> David C said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3TT3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That looks awfull
> but Ive never seen the exhaust ports on mine so I cant judge.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks bad considering it has been rebuilt.
> There used to be loads of scams with engine reconditioning, sometimes they got nothing more than a jet wash....!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This ✔
> 
> There still are loads of fools going on ebay doing no research and getting scammed.
> 
> Is the same company doing the job this time Tom ?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback on the stems of the valves, they're certainly a lot wetter than they should be! 6 out of 8 exhaust valve stems are very wet as can be seen. 2 of them looked drying but obviously I couldn't see the back portion so could be leaking down that side on the two that appeared dryish. The funny thing is that the inlet valve stems are totally spanking and dry, could this be worn exhaust guides or just bad valve stem seals on the exhaust valves? I know that Supertechs Valve Stem Seal kit use different materials for the exhaust valve stem seals to the inlet valve stem seals as they experience different conditions...

The same engine company will be doing the work again, yes. I know that the head got a clean and a skim minimum as that was visible because the head was spanking when I got it back 18 months ago. Whether or not they really did the valve stem seals and got a bad batch of FAI ones as claimed is anyone's guess.

At the time all I knew how to do was drive cars so I didn't know what I was looking at, just looked like a big lump of metal to me at the time.

As I've mentioned it's going back and it's going to be pretty obvious now if they don't do what I ask of them. I will be getting my mechanic to check the head over to make sure they've replaced the exhaust guides etc.

Could it be bad exhaust guides instead of the valve stem seals only on the exhaust valves?


----------



## jamman

If your mech is going to check it over and refit that's a great idea and the only way I would personally let them near the head.

One word of warning make sure both parties are fully aware of what you are prepared to pay for and what your not

Good luck mate


----------



## TT Tom TT

jamman said:


> If your mech is going to check it over and refit that's a great idea and the only way I would personally let them near the head.
> 
> One word of warning make sure both parties are fully aware of what you are prepared to pay for and what your not
> 
> Good luck mate


Engine company are doing it gratis and hopefully trying to then make a claim with their supplier FAI which can then go back to me to help me pay for cost of gasket set, stretch bolts and labour of having head removed and re-fitted.

IMPORTANT: I would like everyone to re-read the last post I made above this one because my exhaust valve stems are WET with oil but my inlet valve stems are SPANKING CLEAN AND DRY... So I'm not sure if it's merely the stem seals localised to only the exhaust guides as they have to cope with different conditions or if it's the exhaust guides which would actually make more sense..?


----------



## 3TT3

Hey Tom,
(moved here cos I didnt want to hog the other thread)
I was sort of posting about the 900-950 cos its not that unusual in mapped standard component TT's(Ive read , and been informed),Ideally a bit lower is better but by the time the eg has reached our sensors its already cooler than whats flowing directly out one of the exhaust manifold ports near the cyl head.
That too is gonna be a bit lower than whats right on the valve head as it opens (I think) .
I mean I wouldnt worry about the 880C for 2 reasons (mho) .An occasional 940 /950 on WOT , especially if its just after you close the throttle at 7kish . The exhaust valve surface most likely is gonna be much hotter than that momentarily and even if you do limit your egts to 880 itll still be much hotter than that at the valve,but thas ok.

It is? Well I think the sodium is supposed to melt so it works best(kinda liquid cooling) ,circulating liquid cos of the temp differential , better than solid sodium ..
Like it may be if your egt is only reading 700 for all I know , the valve head area might be 900 and sodium has already melted and started to "liquid cool" the valve.
I mean I dont want to advise you wrong/give a wrong opinion ,but I wouldnt worry about having to get expensive valves just on the basis of sodium melting point and egts going higher than that .
I think I read something from Badger  where his turbo casting started to melt at 1100-1200 :roll: ,many years ago posting no doubt, but he didnt seem worried about valves at all.


----------



## TT Tom TT

3TT3 said:


> Hey Tom,
> (moved here cos I didnt want to hog the other thread)
> I was sort of posting about the 900-950 cos its not that unusual in mapped standard component TT's(Ive read , and been informed),Ideally a bit lower is better but by the time the eg has reached our sensors its already cooler than whats flowing directly out one of the exhaust manifold ports near the cyl head.
> That too is gonna be a bit lower than whats right on the valve head as it opens (I think) .
> I mean I wouldnt worry about the 880C for 2 reasons (mho) .An occasional 940 /950 on WOT , especially if its just after you close the throttle at 7kish . The exhaust valve surface most likely is gonna be much hotter than that momentarily and even if you do limit your egts to 880 itll still be much hotter than that at the valve,but thas ok.
> 
> It is? Well I think the sodium is supposed to melt so it works best(kinda liquid cooling) ,circulating liquid cos of the temp differential , better than solid sodium ..
> Like it may be if your egt is only reading 700 for all I know , the valve head area might be 900 and sodium has already melted and started to "liquid cool" the valve.
> I mean I dont want to advise you wrong/give a wrong opinion ,but I wouldnt worry about having to get expensive valves just on the basis of sodium melting point and egts going higher than that .
> I think I read something from Badger  where his turbo casting started to melt at 1100-1200 :roll: ,many years ago posting no doubt, but he didnt seem worried about valves at all.


Yeah I felt like I was hi-jacking to so thanks for posting here ...

The issue with the Sodium is that it boils at 880oC, when the temp of the valve is over 880oC it turns from being liquid Sodium (which is efficient at dissipating heat up the valve stem and away from the seat area) into Sodium gas which is far less efficient. It also then has the effect of making the valve more vulnerable to burning and generally getting beat up ...

As for EGT's I've read in a few places that EGT's really shouldn't exceed 900 or have reason too! It's very, very hot. I read that 850 is where you want to be for longevity.


----------



## 3TT3

Ahh , I was thinking this 880 was solid to liquid :lol: , still tho I dont see how if egt is limited to 880 , that the valve head temp/sodium would be be cooler than that since the temp differential on the exhaust side decreases down to the sensor .

Aha heres another point , the heat pipe effect, liquid to gas , How could I have forgotten that! [smiley=whip.gif] (probably because I only googled it 3 minutes ago :lol: )

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=247000

Still it doesnt sound so good for guides! 

edit:I kinda thought the 880C couldnt be right as a never exceed tho cos in even then crappiest petrol engine, honda 50 or whatever theres going to be 700/800 C standard on surfaces with combustion temp why fit sodium filled valves at all if theres such a narrow do not exceed range .

These 300 quid valves..are they non sodium? or just like made from higher quality ?.
Like my one diy audi engine rebuild (long time ago) I got new valve guides, and had them inserted by a machine shop , because the original guides were way out of limits (new seals too obviously)..all from audi Brazil cos it was much cheaper.
I dont know the construction of the TT head, but if the guides are integral,is there any chance they are worn (Im too lazy to go back n check if youve done that aspect already) .


----------



## TT Tom TT

3TT3 said:


> Ahh , I was thinking this 880 was solid to liquid :lol: , still tho I dont see how if egt is limited to 880 , that the valve head temp/sodium would be be cooler than that since the temp differential on the exhaust side decreases down to the sensor .
> 
> Aha heres another point , the heat pipe effect, liquid to gas , How could I have forgotten that! [smiley=whip.gif] (probably because I only googled it 3 minutes ago :lol: )
> 
> http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=247000
> 
> Still it doesnt sound so good for guides!
> 
> edit:I kinda thought the 880C couldnt be right as a never exceed tho cos in even then crappiest petrol engine, honda 50 or whatever theres going to be 700/800 C standard on surfaces with combustion temp why fit sodium filled valves at all if theres such a narrow do not exceed range .
> 
> These 300 quid valves..are they non sodium? or just like made from higher quality ?.
> Like my one diy audi engine rebuild (long time ago) I got new valve guides, and had them inserted by a machine shop , because the original guides were way out of limits (new seals too obviously)..all from audi Brazil cos it was much cheaper.
> I dont know the construction of the TT head, but if the guides are integral,is there any chance they are worn (Im too lazy to go back n check if youve done that aspect already) .


You make a good point actually... The advice I was given on keeping EGT's below 900 or ideally around the 850 mark obviously wasn't for this reason but I assumed it was so thanks for picking me up on that ! I imagine the effect it has on the guides must be okay because I don't think Audi would have designed it that way if it paggers them quickly - with that said though I know some people say the guides in the head should be done every 50K so maybe that actually does support what you're saying...

Yes mate my guides are okay but not great, it was my stem seals that were absolutely shot at so that's being rectified now. The 300 quid valves are solid one piece inconel alloy material, I'm not going to bother with them and they may be some famous last words come one months time :lol:!


----------



## Jools TT

TT Tom TT said:


> 3TT3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh , I was thinking this 880 was solid to liquid :lol: , still tho I dont see how if egt is limited to 880 , that the valve head temp/sodium would be be cooler than that since the temp differential on the exhaust side decreases down to the sensor .
> 
> Aha heres another point , the heat pipe effect, liquid to gas , How could I have forgotten that! [smiley=whip.gif] (probably because I only googled it 3 minutes ago :lol: )
> 
> http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=247000
> 
> Still it doesnt sound so good for guides!
> 
> edit:I kinda thought the 880C couldnt be right as a never exceed tho cos in even then crappiest petrol engine, honda 50 or whatever theres going to be 700/800 C standard on surfaces with combustion temp why fit sodium filled valves at all if theres such a narrow do not exceed range .
> 
> These 300 quid valves..are they non sodium? or just like made from higher quality ?.
> Like my one diy audi engine rebuild (long time ago) I got new valve guides, and had them inserted by a machine shop , because the original guides were way out of limits (new seals too obviously)..all from audi Brazil cos it was much cheaper.
> I dont know the construction of the TT head, but if the guides are integral,is there any chance they are worn (Im too lazy to go back n check if youve done that aspect already) .
> 
> 
> 
> You make a good point actually... The advice I was given on keeping EGT's below 900 or ideally around the 850 mark obviously wasn't for this reason but I assumed it was so thanks for picking me up on that ! I imagine the effect it has on the guides must be okay because I don't think Audi would have designed it that way if it paggers them quickly - with that said though I know some people say the guides in the head should be done every 50K so maybe that actually does support what you're saying...
> 
> Yes mate my guides are okay but not great, it was my stem seals that were absolutely shot at so that's being rectified now. The 300 quid valves are solid one piece inconel alloy material, I'm not going to bother with them and they may be some famous last words come one months time :lol:!
Click to expand...

Fit a water meth kit to lower EGT and gain a few ponies too, priced about the same as Inconel valves


----------



## TT Tom TT

The engine head has been rectified, new exhaust valves, head skimmed, cleaned, all 20 valves lapped in, 8 new exhaust guides and 20 new valve stem seals... New cam chain tensioner gasket and gauze has mine had eroded away ...

It will be back on the car on Friday, aligned on the next Monday and mapped on the Thursday / Friday...

Estimated time of car being finished now: 11th-12th May 8)...


----------



## jamman

Fingers crossed for you.


----------



## Beunhaas

Good work, getting there!

But... Didnt you skim the head already once and now again? And was it warped that it needed a skim at all?

I hope detonation wont limit your power :?


----------



## 3TT3

[smiley=thumbsup.gif] we hope .
Is there any running in involved , did they say like a mileage for takin it easy?


----------



## TT Tom TT

jamman said:


> Fingers crossed for you.


Cheers! Me too ...



Beunhaas said:


> Good work, getting there!
> 
> But... Didnt you skim the head already once and now again? And was it warped that it needed a skim at all?
> 
> I hope detonation wont limit your power :?


That's correct yes, it's been skimmed before, combined with new rings my compression is going to be very, very high which could pose a problem but let's see what happens I suppose :?... The head was warped a little, there was a black-spot on the edge between cylinder 2 & 3. Probably from a combination of things...



3TT3 said:


> [smiley=thumbsup.gif] we hope .
> Is there any running in involved , did they say like a mileage for takin it easy?


Rings already were run in, head is just put it on and go... No more running in thankfully.

________________________________

I have spoke to the folks at Unicorn and sent them a detailed spec-sheet along with my aims for the car and what I require to be done. Rick got back to me and he seems to think my power goal of 400+ is "optimistic but possible and the set-up I have will certainly give me the best chance" within reason of course...

He seems happy enough with what he's going to be doing so tuner is on the same wave-length and he's fine with taking the K04-hybrid that I have up to 26 PSI and perhaps beyond if it creates more power without creating exponentially more heat to the point EGT's are crap.


----------



## 3TT3

I think someone posted on it before, but if the comp ratio has gone very high , maybe it can be taken to slighty lower tune (timing boost adjustment ) and bang on some water injection later when cash allows and get it dialled up a bit again?


----------



## TT Tom TT

3TT3 said:


> I think someone posted on it before, but if the comp ratio has gone very high , maybe it can be taken to slighty lower tune (timing boost adjustment ) and bang on some water injection later when cash allows and get it dialled up a bit again?


The tuner is installing the WMI kit and setting it up in conjunction with mapping 8).


----------



## 3TT3

TT Tom TT said:


> 3TT3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think someone posted on it before, but if the comp ratio has gone very high , maybe it can be taken to slighty lower tune (timing boost adjustment ) and bang on some water injection later when cash allows and get it dialled up a bit again?
> 
> 
> 
> The tuner is installing the WMI kit and setting it up in conjunction with mapping 8).
Click to expand...

Ok I missed that  "you there at the back of the class, wake up!" 
Well one good thing then might be , if the compression is higher than standard a little there will still be good pickup if the turbo spools a litle slower .


----------



## TT Tom TT

Lovely clean head re-fitted which as mentioned had all 20 stem seals replaced, 12 inlet valves lapped in, 8 new exhaust valves lapped in and a clean and skim! Cam chain tensioner gasket and gauze as well as all other new gaskets fitted including new stretch bolts of course

Head has been skimmed twice in its life-time @ 1 cut each time for 3/1000's of an inch so it's had 0.14mm cut off so pretty confident my compression won't be sky high (despite having newly worn in rings of course 8))...

Cam-belt and both tensioners done as belt was exhibiting a little bit of wear on the edge.

Started up and there is NO SMOKE! Not even a wisp of steam until engine has been running for five minutes or so so I'm thrilled! Car's going to Unicorn to turn into a weapon on Thursday, Rick estimated a three or four day turn-over so I'll be reclaiming the TT Tuesday / Wednesday I imagine.

The anticipation is killing me and I honestly feel like a kid at Christmas again waiting for this to come together now that I'm on the long-awaited home stretch :mrgreen: [smiley=bomb.gif]!


----------



## Delta4

Good news 8)


----------



## intott

Great news dude.

I'm guessing 339bhp :mrgreen:


----------



## TT Tom TT

Delta4 said:


> Good news 8)


Absolutely 8)



intott said:


> Great news dude.
> 
> I'm guessing 339bhp :mrgreen:


Funny, I was feeling 341 :lol:


----------



## TT Tom TT

-


----------



## Delta4

Have you uprated the clutch along the way tom and what bhp figures are you hoping for at the end of this journey.


----------



## Squadromeo

Delta4 said:


> Have you uprated the clutch along the way tom and what bhp figures are you hoping for at the end of this journey.


Just look at the first posting in this thread


----------



## Delta4

Squadromeo said:


> Delta4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you uprated the clutch along the way tom and what bhp figures are you hoping for at the end of this journey.
> 
> 
> 
> Just look at the first posting in this thread
Click to expand...

Sorted, brain function slows down after a few pints :lol:


----------



## Gonzalo1495

Congrats Tom. Sometimes it pays to come back and do things the right way. Glad you didn't cut corners


----------



## jamman

Gonzalo1495 said:


> Congrats Tom. Sometimes it pays to come back and do things the right way. Glad you didn't cut corners


This...

Exciting times ahead Thomas, enjoy


----------



## TT Tom TT

Had car aligned on Monday, there were Porsche's everywhere at Ninemeister where I had the car set-up, their alignment gear was truly phenomenal - a proper infrared hunter machine with these weird hexagon panels which rotate to check everything truly amazing...

Managed to get the specs to the following, certainly wasn't amazing regarding specs - we maxed out the front ball joints but still didn't get much neg camber... Results were as follows:

Fronts:
Camber -1.2 / -1.23
Toe 0.0 / -0.01
Caster 6.3 / 7.1 (non-adjustable kinda' sucky )

Rear:
Camber -1.68 / - 1.63
Toe 0.07 IN / 0.09 IN

After the alignment the handling felt much better and it just keeps on gripping!

Fancy Porsche's in dry storage - View My Video

My car up on the rig - View My Video

____________________

Tuesday I set about giving the car a good clean, inside, outside, engine bay, boot liners, everywhere!


















____________________

Thursday, today... Car has been dropped off with Rick @ Unicorn today...

Both good and bad news before I even gave him they keys - he's waiting on AEM WMI kits to arrive from overseas... So on the plus side we can see how much power can be made on this hybrid with petrol only which will be interesting...

Then when he gets the kits in I can take it back and he will install the meth kit and then map accordingly for more power so yeah, kinda' interesting to see what will be achieved without meth and then a couple of weeks later WITH!

I suppose it's cool in a way because it's like I'm going to pick my car up on probably Tuesday and it will be very quick and then I get to take it back and experience it all over again post-wmi 8)!

Every cloud...

Roll on Tuesday or perhaps Saturday if I'm lucky.


----------



## 3TT3

Bon chance !
Not even a year yet.. seems longer 

I had a look at the first page (edited)
Stealth wmi? ..is that going to be using the washer bottle and no tb adapter and pump etc hidden.

fingers xed itll do what it says on the tin,or doesnt say on the tin in this case!


----------



## Gonzalo1495

exciting stuff Tom. Shame about the front camber. You should highly consider the MK2 ball joints. Will make the front look a lot more stance nation :wink:

1 question brother, you keep referring to the wmi as a meth kit. Are you planning on running pure meth, or just about?


----------



## Beunhaas

I put my money on 350 hp 440 Nm balls out on wmi

Good luck Tom!


----------



## TT Tom TT

Gonzalo1495 said:


> exciting stuff Tom. Shame about the front camber. You should highly consider the MK2 ball joints. Will make the front look a lot more stance nation :wink:
> 
> 1 question brother, you keep referring to the wmi as a meth kit. Are you planning on running pure meth, or just about?


Definitely something I SHOULD have done before my alignment, I might address it in the future because it's currently a bit of a flaw in my build...

Bad terminology on my part, AEM WMI kit not meth only ...



3TT3 said:


> Bon chance !
> Not even a year yet.. seems longer
> 
> I had a look at the first page (edited)
> Stealth wmi? ..is that going to be using the washer bottle and no tb adapter and pump etc hidden.
> 
> fingers xed itll do what it says on the tin,or doesnt say on the tin in this case!


Haha, I am having the WMI tank in front of my small battery ...

I don't think that it's going to crack 400 on Rick's dyno as I'll explain below but on another dyno run from somewhere else I'd say it's entirely possible 8) (I hope [smiley=bomb.gif])!



Beunhaas said:


> I put my money on 350 hp 440 Nm balls out on wmi
> 
> Good luck Tom!


Rick's dyno is a bit of a heart-breaker - he said whatever it makes on his is usually about 10% less than anyone elses BUT that's not because his is inaccurate, it's because most other people have it calibrated very optimistically... For example, he had an

Audi R8 on his dyno (410BHP stock):










It was 355 on his dyno and he managed to REMAP IT to 401 after an intake clean and fitting an aftermarket exhaust so that gives some kind of perspective on what he calls a heart-breaker dyno...

For this reason I have changed my estimates because of this to avoid giving myself a stroke when I see the low figures:

Petrol:
330bhp 310lb/ft

Meth:
370bhp 345lb/ft

I will definitely do a run on someone else's dyno at some point after Meth has been done in a few weeks or keep my eye out for a special dyno day so I don't have to pay 50 quid for a dyno run or something ridiculous like that!


----------



## 3TT3

Les americans  seem to concentrate on whp dyno readings .I think all dynos are whp? and then the operator factors in their own power loss equation back to the flywheel .
What I mean is ,if the wheel readings are good and pretty much the same on all decent rolling roads , all you need is the whp actual figures , and then you can factor it back yourself,even using the more optimistic transmission loss % of other dyno operators ?


----------



## TT Tom TT

3TT3 said:


> Les americans  seem to concentrate on whp dyno readings .I think all dynos are whp? and then the operator factors in their own power loss equation back to the flywheel .
> What I mean is ,if the wheel readings are good and pretty much the same on all decent rolling roads , all you need is the whp actual figures , and then you can factor it back yourself,even using the more optimistic transmission loss % of other dyno operators ?


You make a great point, didn't think about that funnily enough - I'll ask him for the raw numbers and hopefully he'll remember what they were pre-correction ...


----------



## Beunhaas

Most dyno plots give hp and whp so should be sorted


----------



## hang your idols

I would say they are realistically power figures for your setup,so enjoy the car :wink: ;you can try for peace of mind Badger 5 dyno.


----------



## CALLAKN

Do it annoy you at all the exhaust isn't perfectly alined?!

(love the thread!! just been reading through it. very Interesting)


----------



## 3TT3

It has no relevance to me, but I remember seeing 22% tossed around as a running gear/transmission loss for 1.8t 4wd .
(a) I dont know/remember if that was for 4wd dynos ,I suppose it must have been, cos haldex pulled 2wd runs would be different .
(b) Is torque supposed to be the same? dunno
(c) where did 22% come from? good q .
and? well divide the wheel hp by 78 and multiply by 100 .

If it gives a good engine hp reading, its probably accurate 
If it doesnt its probably way off  .


----------



## TT Tom TT

hang your idols said:


> I would say they are realistically power figures for your setup,so enjoy the car :wink: ;you can try for peace of mind Badger 5 dyno.


We shall see... Eventually :lol:!



CALLAKN said:


> Do it annoy you at all the exhaust isn't perfectly alined?!
> 
> (love the thread!! just been reading through it. very Interesting)


Definitely, the left hand side has dropped down again!



3TT3 said:


> It has no relevance to me, but I remember seeing 22% tossed around as a running gear/transmission loss for 1.8t 4wd .
> (a) I dont know/remember if that was for 4wd dynos ,I suppose it must have been, cos haldex pulled 2wd runs would be different .
> (b) Is torque supposed to be the same? dunno
> (c) where did 22% come from? good q .
> and? well divide the wheel hp by 78 and multiply by 100 .
> 
> If it gives a good engine hp reading, its probably accurate
> If it doesnt its probably way off  .


True, would be easier just to multiply the initial number by 0.78 rather than messing around with a two-step process though.

______________________________________________

UPDATE

Got my car back today with no real changes applied to it :?.

My Bosch EV14 630cc injectors do not fit as they require EV6 --> EV1 adaptors...

Rick told me this on Friday night. He sent me a link to Fuel Performance's website of the correct product, I ordered it special delivery to come first thing Saturday.

The item was not signed for and as a result was delivered Monday, I phoned him today and he said that he got it wrong and he sent me a link to EV1 --> EV6 rather than EV6 --> EV1.

So today I collected my car in no different a state than it was this time last week when I dropped it off, he is going to the Nurburgring tomorrow and returning Monday night so I am dropping it back off next Tuesday and hopefully collecting Friday with the petrol map done *fingers crossed*

So new ETA is now MAY 26TH!


----------



## Delta4

Patients is a virtue


----------



## TT Tom TT

Delta4 said:


> Patients is a virtue


Absolutely, patience is wearing more than thin at the moment - I've paid my dues and waited long enough already :evil: :lol:!


----------



## Jools TT

TT Tom TT said:


> Delta4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Patients is a virtue
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely, patience is wearing more than thin at the moment - I've paid my dues and waited long enough already :evil: :lol:!
Click to expand...

I know the feeling mate , mines getting ready for mapping and wheel alignment and theres always something upsetting the apple cart , mine went for hunter alignment , couldn't do it 'cos outer rear tie bar bush seized , ordered the part , went to take it down and alternator regulator fooks up , still no further forward and RR/Tune for mine is June 6th. just got last bits for my WMI and alternator regulator due tomorrow :roll: 
Good luck and eagerly await your results :mrgreen:


----------



## TT Tom TT

Car dropped off again haha 8)... Funnily enough when I got there a TT was on the ramp. Lucky for me he wasn't holding boost so went off on his way after only 5 minutes which meant they could start on mine ...

Any way, 630cc injectors in all good... They said my MAF was dead, good job I have a big 3.5" new MAF going on any way! The car ran very well for a car with a dead MAF, I couldn't tell and Rick couldn't tell when applying his base-map so I was surprised.

Fingers crossed that I have a good result come Friday!


----------



## intott

3.5? Are the bigger mafs not 3.25id and 3.5od? Will they be mapping for the new maf housing then?

Eagerly awaiting


----------



## TT Tom TT

intott said:


> 3.5? Are the bigger mafs not 3.25id and 3.5od? Will they be mapping for the new maf housing then?
> 
> Eagerly awaiting


Yes, my mistake ^^^. They are mate yes, results for petrol only on Friday [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=book2.gif]!


----------



## TT Tom TT

48 hours to go or less, I can't wait [smiley=bomb.gif].


----------



## jamman

TT Tom TT said:


> 48 hours to go or less, I can't wait [smiley=bomb.gif].


 8)


----------



## intott

Just less than 24 hours now


----------



## TT Tom TT

I picked the car up today, but haven't had time to post as I've been trying to fix it...

These were the conditions the car was mapped with:

- Boost leak present
- Small MAF
- He said my air filter (mushroom with velocity stack) was causing extremely turbulent flow past MAF
- NO METH (Petrol only)
- His dyno is a killer

336.2HP
321.3Ft.lbs

I think considering that's a nice result. Peak power holds all the way until 7.5K but the plots weren't great due to the leak(s). Spool is laggy for this reason at the moment so things are still up in the air sadly... Well, actually - very much so...

In between leaving and getting home the car now develops I'd say no more than maybe 100HP at 5K RPM, didn't want to push it further as it feels as though something is majorly wrong. I checked all my jubilee clips were tight and went around from the TIP, to things that connect to the TIP, to the elbow on the charge pipe and from the charge pipe around the FMIC jubilee clips and then back to the throttle body and everything was extremely tight and secure. I also checked that my manifold to turbo bolts were still tight and I couldn't move them at all so I'm worried as to what on Earth is going on and how my car has dropped 2/3 or perhaps 3/4 of its power from merely cruising home slowly without pushing it until back in my home town 30 miles away...

I guess I'm asking for advice once more? Any ideas ...

P.S. I'll put the graph up tomorrow but it's dark now and I'm going to bed soon so can't be bothered turning the light on / finding my phone to take a snap!

P.P.S He said post meth and boost-leak fix 400bhp or close might be possible and if not it will do it on someone else's dyno all day long... More waiting and more problems ahead, some things never change in TT land I suppose.

G'night folks.


----------



## jamman

Morning Tom.

Sorry to hear this,

Why was the car mapped with a boost leak (why wasn't it traced fixed by tuner)

Air Filter - Turbulent air flow WTF ?????

Get in the car drive it back and let them sort it mate.


----------



## Beunhaas

Not bad results for a hybrid. I totally agree with jamman, seems like they dont like dirty hands.

Maybe weird question but what is the fuzz about doing a bit tuning with this, a bit with that.
Go for a map when car is ready, big maf, wmi, pressure tested etc. I hope you dont have to pay for each session? Or they like it to strap cars on the dyno and unstrap it 5 mins later.

Btw, if you have no full vcds yourself at these modifications levels you are making it yourself uneccesary hard


----------



## hang your idols

I second Jammnan,not a very professional thing to do;a boost leak it`s not a hard thing to check-fix :x


----------



## intott

So they knew you had a boost leak, but remapped it anyway and then sent you on your way and didnt tell you where the leak was coming from? Seems a bit suspect to me.


----------



## jamman

Not really used to people agreeing with me...... :wink:


----------



## TT Tom TT

As mentioned I looked at all the things I listed yesterday and today I swapped my Forge 007P DV for the Bosch 710N and it seems to have helped considerably, I still need to go for a boost leak test at some point.

For all those wandering, Unicorn only do software and dyno - at a push they will swap the injectors out but they don't do anything mechanical. Same as R-tech or anywhere else typically.

I need to get another boost leak test done and track down the leak because I'm assuming it's reasonably significant...

You will see from the graphs below how lazy the spool up is...

THE GREEN LINE - The line that reaches 1.1 Bar on the boost plot is the requested and the line beneath it is what was happening which is why the spool and power delivery feel so slow and the reason why the car is down on power (besides obviously not having meth and smaller MAF / bad turbulent airflow through filter across MAF etc...


----------



## NickG

Not good. If you took it to Rtech for example they wouldn't map it with a boost leak. Lazy service if you ask me, sounds like they are more geared up to offer generic maps without any thought process.


----------



## NickG

Also...










Can handle crash repair and custom fabrication... but can't fix a boost leak??


----------



## sco

Tom why not save yourself a bunch of heartache and worry and take it to Wak to get it checked and mapped properly?

Simon.


----------



## TT Tom TT

NickG said:


> Also...
> 
> 
> 
> Can handle crash repair and custom fabrication... but can't fix a boost leak??


Well, I don't really know what I can do now - they definitely don't fix boost leaks, he told me they don't have a compressor... Not really sure what I can do now as Lowndes Street Garage where I had a boost leak test done 3 months ago cured all leaks but could only pressurise the system from post-charge-pipe onwards so some of the system hasn't been checked.

I don't know anywhere that will check the whole system without nailing my hat on and wanting 100+ pounds... Does anyone know anywhere that will do a good job because Unicorn won't do it, this was what Rick said:

_______________________

Hi Tom,

For the Car to loose boost it's either not making it, or it's making it and loosing it. Easiest and most common thing to check is a l leak. This can be hosing or the DV..

If there is no leak, then it must not be generating the boost. Typical reasons are wastegate stuck open, exhaust blockage, inlet blockage.

Nothing has changed since you brought the car apart from software. So if you were to disconnect the N75 it should drive exactly the same as it did while it was on the base map. Clearly it doesn't, so it's time to go hunting for the hardware issue!

________________________

I really don't know anywhere that will do it and do a thorough and professional job of all hoses (not just some).



sco said:


> Tom why not save yourself a bunch of heartache and worry and take it to Wak to get it checked and mapped properly?
> 
> Simon.


Because he's 219 miles away :? . Badger5, R-tech and Wak are all far away from me.

IMPORTANT: MIght also be worth mentioning that the MAF on my car came from the larger housing that I bought, it was 33 pounds and I thought I was only getting the larger S4 housing with placeholder but turns out the placeholder was indeed a MAF... This MAF sensor is now being used on my car as my old one was dead, is it possible that this cheap MAF sensor is causing things to run badly as I've heard people saying anything other than genuine AUDI / VW MAF sensor causes car to run like a bag of nails. My idle isn't great at times.


----------



## sco

TT Tom TT said:


> NickG said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also...
> 
> I really don't know anywhere that will do it and do a thorough and professional job of all hoses (not just some).
> 
> 
> 
> sco said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tom why not save yourself a bunch of heartache and worry and take it to Wak to get it checked and mapped properly?
> 
> Simon.
> 
> 
> 
> Because he's 219 miles away :? . Badger5, R-tech and Wak are all far away from me.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Easily worth the trip imo. - just drive it with restraint until you get there. Think of all the time and money you've invested in it - Wak will do a thorough check and fix any issues and then give you a map that maximises your investment safely.

Simon.


----------



## TT Tom TT

sco said:


> Easily worth the trip imo. - just drive it with restraint until you get there. Think of all the time and money you've invested in it - Wak will do a thorough check and fix any issues and then give you a map that maximises your investment safely.
> 
> Simon.


I'm not disputing that but I'm going to have problems if he finds numerous split hoses which I then need to wait 2-5 days to turn up in the post 220 miles away from home with nowhere to stay... Hotels $$$...


----------



## intott

Swap back to the original maf sensor. When changing maf housing sizes, you should still retain the element from the original sensor iirc.

If you can make it to derby this weekend I will happily run a boost leak test and plug in the me7 logger and do some runs - foc


----------



## Gtturbo

If maf is a unknown element in a unknown housing, I suspect all hell is breaking loose in the ecu.
Me7logger with the right variables will show you it.

If your handy with a computer and want to learn self tune it there's a wealth of knowledge out there all open source


----------



## Beunhaas

intott said:


> Swap back to the original maf sensor. When changing maf housing sizes, you should still retain the element from the original sensor iirc.
> 
> If you can make it to derby this weekend I will happily run a boost leak test and plug in the me7 logger and do some runs - foc


Spot on, the s4 and rs4 maf uses a different sensor that has for example some sort of iat sensor on it to correct things already.
Stock 225 sensor in bigger housing is the way it should be done.

Again vcds or me7logger is key diagnosing problems like this.

So close Tom, keep pushing [smiley=dude.gif]


----------



## 3TT3

Im 500+ miles away  which is around say the distance from Inverness to Croydon .Unfortunately journey time would be about 3 hrs longer than that as there is a 4 hr ferry journey in the way (£250 return) .
A 450 even 600+ mile return journey in one day isnt that much..even if you should find/get diagnosed x parts are needed..just go home, get em and come back another day .
Whats petrol in the UK now..like £5 a gallon? 15 gallons for a 450 mile return journey approx n so on.

Id do it!  and Im closer to the age where I might need an afternoon nap than you are :lol:


----------



## Mcmtt

Tom - surely they shouldn't have remapped it if it wasn't healthy or had boost leaks bad maf etc. I would say your not happy and ask them to put the car back to standard and get a refund. When I got mine remapped the guy said if you don't like the remap I'll put back the standard and no charge obviously the remap was outstanding and was the best money I spent!


----------



## TT Tom TT

Hi folks,

Just to clear up a couple of issues (probably poor communication on my part) my cheap S4 MAF sensor was scaled to the 225 housing as my 225 MAF sensor was dead...

I only realised earlier that my MAF sensor is a cheap-o special which is probably why it's running crap - I disconnected it and although still not perfect the car is running much better now based on throttle position... So basically I need to get myself a proper 225 MAF sensor, get my boost leak fixed and then have meth fitted along with Bosch 225 sensor and S4 MAF housing, new air filter and have it re-scaled and re-mapped again and fingers crossed all should be well.

I have it booked in for Tuesday at Fuel Injection Centre in Bolton to be boost leak tested. £50.00 so not too bad...

Intott, thank you very much for your offer but car is sucking so much in fuel at the moment that it would end up costing me more in fuel for the 200+ mile journey to Derby and back, I am very much humbled by your offer and hospitality though nonetheless [smiley=cheers.gif].

If after all this something still isn't right I might consider taking it to Wak, he lives near Thorpe Park and my girlfriend and I have always wanted to go so two bird with one stone I suppose ...

If all this wasn't enough I've developed a coolant leak too and I'm not sure where it's dropping from but rest assured it is NOT getting into the engine! Every cloud right :lol:!

Thanks so far for all the motivation, well wishes and tips - I am getting close and as Beunhaas said - I will not give up (yet [smiley=bomb.gif]) :twisted:...


----------



## jamman

Hi Tom,

These things are sent to try us, make sure you smile nicely at the garage and make sure they do a full boost leak check, watch them if you can.

We've crossed swords before about this but you are learning the hard way about non OEM sensors, it's just not worth the hassle.

Good luck and stay positive.


----------



## thomp1983

For less than £50 you could get yourself a cheap compressor and do your own boost leak test, you'd also then have it for future use

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391792646717


----------



## Jay-225

hmm im not sure mate... think you may be reading the boost graph wrong as to me looks like it has a request of 1.7bar but is maxing boost at 1.6 ish at the top end :?: the part where its not meeting request could just be the the characteristics of the turbo concerning the way it builds boost as looks to be strong topend holding 1.5 bar . Obviously sort the dodgy maf and other bits that need doing but i don't think it looks far off tbh  what are you expecting out of it ? also scan the graph in so we can get a better look at it :lol:


----------



## TT Tom TT

jamman said:


> Hi Tom,
> 
> These things are sent to try us, make sure you smile nicely at the garage and make sure they do a full boost leak check, watch them if you can.
> 
> We've crossed swords before about this but you are learning the hard way about non OEM sensors, it's just not worth the hassle.
> 
> Good luck and stay positive.


I still stand by ABS sensors (for now, still no trouble) but for everything else you're right.



thomp1983 said:


> For less than £50 you could get yourself a cheap compressor and do your own boost leak test, you'd also then have it for future use
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391792646717


I have a compressor but no means of using it... Don't have things to bung the hoses up with and then a method I.E. Sraeder valve of delivering the compressed air into the hoses but I appreciate the link... It's something I should probably learn to do to future-proof myself against eventual further boost leaks :?...



Jay-225 said:


> hmm im not sure mate... think you may be reading the boost graph wrong as to me looks like it has a request of 1.7bar but is maxing boost at 1.6 ish at the top end :?: the part where its not meeting request could just be the the characteristics of the turbo concerning the way it builds boost as looks to be strong topend holding 1.5 bar . Obviously sort the dodgy maf and other bits that need doing but i don't think it looks far off tbh  what are you expecting out of it ? also scan the graph in so we can get a better look at it :lol:


Yep, my bad I was reading the lambda, I'm hoping for 400+ on a regular dyno (not Rick's) and maybe 380+ on Rick's. As mentioned, no meth, boost leak, bad MAF, small MAF housing and tiny air filter currently on car so lots of room for improvement power-wise.


----------



## 3TT3

The dyno graphs 
1st is a before and after run combined?
I can just make out the mixture and boost figures
Power n torque seems ok to me( I dont mean as an expert  on your setup ) .

vcds would give you a lot of the info the dyno is missing like timing and so on and it can give some indication of boost leak locations.
Last pm I got from wak ..reading between the lines..I think he suspects there is a boost leak/induction leak somewhere from my logs , but he wants to get his hands on it to confirm his suspicions  .
Im beginning to suspect 
035 103 245A may be a bit dodgy 

Why did it go all crappy otw home(presumably after tuning) most obvious answer would be it went into limp mode not necessarily with a light showing.
With vcds you could at least see what errors appeared to perhaps cause the performance drop.

The hybrids (I think ) are a little bit shittier on early boost/early spool up but not as bad as a bigger turbo..
"she just cant take it capn" Like my bog standard K04 will do 28/29 psi at 3200 if it was allowed  but its no real use as the engine cant flow that much, by the time its hitting 5000 its already dipping to 20 psi .. then 6800 say its going more like 18 psi.
Itd be nice to know what youre ignition timing was doing(for your own benefit)
The wmi as you know wont do anything just by installing it for power /torque unless 
1. the timing was already being cut 
2.the turbo boost isnt maxed.

Hopefully after install and tuning some timing changes and boost if its available will give more action


----------



## Jay-225

TT Tom TT said:


> I have a compressor but no means of using it... Don't have things to bung the hoses up with and then a method I.E. Sraeder valve of delivering the compressed air into the hoses but I appreciate the link... It's something I should probably learn to do to future-proof myself against eventual further boost leaks :?...
> 
> 
> 
> Jay-225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm im not sure mate... think you may be reading the boost graph wrong as to me looks like it has a request of 1.7bar but is maxing boost at 1.6 ish at the top end :?: the part where its not meeting request could just be the the characteristics of the turbo concerning the way it builds boost as looks to be strong topend holding 1.5 bar . Obviously sort the dodgy maf and other bits that need doing but i don't think it looks far off tbh  what are you expecting out of it ? also scan the graph in so we can get a better look at it :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, my bad I was reading the lambda, I'm hoping for 400+ on a regular dyno (not Rick's) and maybe 380+ on Rick's. As mentioned, no meth, boost leak, bad MAF, small MAF housing and tiny air filter currently on car so lots of room for improvement power-wise.
Click to expand...

I personally think 400 is a bit optimistic on your current setup even with it all working perfect ... obviously bill has done it and to date is the only one i know to crack 400 with that turbo ( in the uk i might add ) but he has i few unique items on the said car which DO make a difference concerning power and is running a strong wmi ratio to ramp up the timing ... When i was at Badger5 getting the water meth fitted i did have a good chat with him about this turbo and asked what the last car made it was fitted to and from memory was a LCR with rods wmi ect and made 365bhp 350lb/ft when i asked about the power he said it is sold as a 380BHP capable unit and is around what he would expect for the tune of the car .

Yours making 336bhp on a "strict" dyno looks pretty decent to me for your current state of tune.... it may raise 10/15bhp on a good dyno with no water meth so maybe 350 which is good power for a car with no meth etc


----------



## jamman

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1546849&p=8095354#p8095354

I refuse to believe they can't check for boost leaks.


----------



## Madmax199




----------



## Matt B

Have you checked the pre load on your actuator ?


----------



## TT Tom TT

Matt B said:


> Have you checked the pre load on your actuator ?


No, I put it on as it came from AET and truth be told would be unsure as to what I'm actually looking for.


----------



## Squadromeo

How did the leak test go, Tom. Any results yet?


----------



## TT Tom TT

Squadromeo said:


> How did the leak test go, Tom. Any results yet?


There was quite a bad split on one of the hoses under the inlet manifold, I got a replacement from Audi delivered from 6 quid - I'm yet to take it back for another boost leak check at the moment due to more issues :lol: :lol: :lol:...


----------



## Matt B

TT Tom TT said:


> Matt B said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you checked the pre load on your actuator ?
> 
> 
> 
> No, I put it on as it came from AET and truth be told would be unsure as to what I'm actually looking for.
Click to expand...

I would really recommend looking at this. It's not hard to set the correct pre load. All you are doing is shortening the actuator arm so that it stays shut until the appropriate crack pressure (which can be anywhere between 9-10 psi up to about 14 psi. 
You can do this by connecting a pump with a gauge to the line into the actuator and then pumping up and watching the arm.

If it's not tightly shut at lower pressures then it will build boost slowly and you won't get the momentum into the wheel. Some logs of your command and actual boost and n75 position would tell you quite a lot here


----------



## Squadromeo

TT Tom TT said:


> Squadromeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How did the leak test go, Tom. Any results yet?
> 
> 
> 
> There was quite a bad split on one of the hoses under the inlet manifold, I got a replacement from Audi delivered from 6 quid - I'm yet to take it back for another boost leak check at the moment due to more issues :lol: :lol: :lol:...
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know the one you mean. I also had to replace that hose (amongst others) when I bought my TT last year. Also had a plit in the breather hose to the hockey puck. Could not be noticed from the outside, but when taken off, and bent open, the part underneath the curve was completely rotten..

So far for Audi quality :roll:


----------



## TT Tom TT

Matt B said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matt B said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you checked the pre load on your actuator ?
> 
> 
> 
> No, I put it on as it came from AET and truth be told would be unsure as to what I'm actually looking for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would really recommend looking at this. It's not hard to set the correct pre load. All you are doing is shortening the actuator arm so that it stays shut until the appropriate crack pressure (which can be anywhere between 9-10 psi up to about 14 psi.
> You can do this by connecting a pump with a gauge to the line into the actuator and then pumping up and watching the arm.
> 
> If it's not tightly shut at lower pressures then it will build boost slowly and you won't get the momentum into the wheel. Some logs of your command and actual boost and n75 position would tell you quite a lot here
Click to expand...

Thanks Matt, this could turn out to be a massive help if my requested boost is still too low for most of the curve after fully sealing the system and having no leaks, invaluable info cheers 8).


----------



## desertstorm

Rick is one of the best tuners around . He tunes all kinds of race cars, Porsches, BMW's etc. What he doesn't know about tuning a 1.8T probably isn't worth knowing. He does all the mapping himself, doesn't buy in generic maps etc.
Buy from Revo, AMD etc you won't be dealing with the guy who actually created the map he's probably in Germany.
Rick originally mapped my 3.0 TDI A4 a few years ago . I fitted a hybrid turbo along with other mods and he mapped that as well 380bhp 750Nm. Picked up the fastest diesel at GTI International the last 3 years. Runs a 13.1 at 109 mph , not bad for a diesel estate.
When I bought the TT it was always going to be going to him to be mapped. Have a look at my build thread. With 3 inch downpipe decat, Badger v2.2 TIP, large FMIC, Ramair filter and a 4 bar FPR it made 235 bhp on the standard map and 274bhp 295Lb/ft after the map. Rick also mapped in launch control.
It would have made more power but Rick hasn't maxed out the fuelling as he knows I will be tracking it. There is some left in reserve if the ECU needs it. It made over 320Lb/ft on the one run but this has been tweaked back to a nice flat 295lb/ft rod friendly map. Ricks dyno is pretty conservative as well compared to most others.
Rick is a fantastic tuner however he doesn't have extensive garage facilities. He is pretty busy so doesn't have the time to spend hours tweaking a wategate to optimise it. AET should be able to give you a baseline setting for that.
It seems you presented Rick with a car that had several issues which he identified for you and this made it impossible for him to get the result you wanted. Bill's Lupo is a very well sorted car and you can bet the install would have been perfect hence your hopes to get similar power to what he achieved without WMI were very ambitious. 
Rick is as I said a very good tuner of cars but not a magician.
Badger 5 would have been the best place to take the car if you couldn't be sure that everything was 100% with the install as 
Bill has all the facilities to sort mechanical issues.


----------



## jamman

As you've now posted the same reply twice on two different threads we can confirm that you are a fan of Ricks work, that is your opinion.

I personally think the way he or rather the company have dealt with Tom is pretty PISS POOR.


----------



## TT Tom TT

After fixing various issues, mapping is now scheduled for 26th September and is expected to be completed by the 2nd October latest providing there are no more set-backs.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Results due TUESDAY all being well *crosses fingers*...


----------



## BrianB

TT Tom TT said:


> Results due TUESDAY all being well *crosses fingers*...


Hope all goes well, you've certainly had some ups and downs.......who is doing the mapping for you this time?


----------



## ady117

any news yet ?


----------



## TT Tom TT

BrianB said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Results due TUESDAY all being well *crosses fingers*...
> 
> 
> 
> Hope all goes well, you've certainly had some ups and downs.......who is doing the mapping for you this time?
Click to expand...

Rick again, car was supposed to be done no later than Friday but apparently the wrong meth' kit turned up and then the replacement got lost in the post.

Supposed to be ready on Tuesday but I personally think Wednesday would be more realistic, we shall see but I'm FINALLY nearly there (I hope?).



ady117 said:


> any news yet ?


Tomorrow apparently.


----------



## 3TT3

Lost in the post eh  ?









fingers xed for Wed


----------



## TT Tom TT

3TT3 said:


> Lost in the post eh  ?
> 
> 
> fingers xed for Wed


 :lol:


----------



## ady117

fingers crossed


----------



## TT Tom TT

My suspicion was correct car still not done "can you leave it with us until tomorrow?"...

I'm hoping tomorrow is results day but again I would now put my expectation back to Thurs / Fri...

A little frustrating that I had to drop the car off in Stockport (over 30 miles away from my home) 1 week ago today at 08:30am SPECIFICALLY just for the car to sit there and rot.

They couldn't tell me whether or not a meth' kit had been fitted yet, if not then sure as hell the car won't be done for tomorrow ...

Patience is a virtue but holy shit I have had to wait longer than many :roll:...

If the results are good, the map is well executed and the curves are nice it will have all been worth it...


----------



## Jools TT

Good luck Tom , hope you get the results you want


----------



## TT Tom TT

autovogue335d said:


> Good luck Tom , hope you get the results you want


Cheers, me too!


----------



## Matt B

TT Tom TT said:


> My suspicion was correct car still not done "can you leave it with us until tomorrow?"...
> 
> I'm hoping tomorrow is results day but again I would now put my expectation back to Thurs / Fri...
> 
> A little frustrating that I had to drop the car off in Stockport (over 30 miles away from my home) 1 week ago today at 08:30am SPECIFICALLY just for the car to sit there and rot.
> 
> They couldn't tell me whether or not a meth' kit had been fitted yet, if not then sure as hell the car won't be done for tomorrow ...
> 
> Patience is a virtue but holy shit I have had to wait longer than many :roll:...
> 
> If the results are good, the map is well executed and the curves are nice it will have all been worth it...


So why exactly couldnt they tell you if the meth kit had been fitted? Its not gonna fit itself.
I hope this gets sorted for you.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Matt B said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> My suspicion was correct car still not done "can you leave it with us until tomorrow?"...
> 
> I'm hoping tomorrow is results day but again I would now put my expectation back to Thurs / Fri...
> 
> A little frustrating that I had to drop the car off in Stockport (over 30 miles away from my home) 1 week ago today at 08:30am SPECIFICALLY just for the car to sit there and rot.
> 
> They couldn't tell me whether or not a meth' kit had been fitted yet, if not then sure as hell the car won't be done for tomorrow ...
> 
> Patience is a virtue but holy shit I have had to wait longer than many :roll:...
> 
> If the results are good, the map is well executed and the curves are nice it will have all been worth it...
> 
> 
> 
> So why exactly couldnt they tell you if the meth kit had been fitted? Its not gonna fit itself.
> I hope this gets sorted for you.
Click to expand...

Receptionist couldn't get hold of mapper, told me she'd tell me state of play later on but never happened sadly. Seems like the type of place where more happens if you don't chase up and if you do it may be considered as an annoyance... I'm sure I'll have my car back by end of the week (I'd think)...


----------



## desertstorm

Rick can be difficult to get hold of. He is pretty busy most of the time and if he is mapping a car he will be concentrating on that rather than answering his phone, I think that's why he now has a lady working for him who can try and field calls and arrange stuff. Rick will always try and do the best job he can and sometimes this means things take a little longer.
Stuff does sometimes get lost in the post, you wouldn't believe the hassle I had around a year ago trying to buy a stainless kitchen sink. The first one arrived bent like it had been dropped from 6 feet or so. It's replacement never arrived at all and finally 3 weeks after the first one arrived I got a straight sink. The wife was really miffed that she had do make do with a bowl for three weeks. I am sure the wait will be worthwhile.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Yes I understand all that but when you are told "it will be easily done by Friday" and it isn't that hurts... What hurts more is when they say "it'll be done Tuesday", you message on Tuesday about a seperate issue at 14:00 and the receptionist / admin did not say "by the way don't come to Stockport your car hasn't been touched". I had to phone as for the next 90 mins there was no response to my further question asking about the cars current state.

You don't say to someone "your car will be ready by X date" and then not contact them on the Xth date, one can make an assumption on that behaviour to just turn up and 'collect' the car, I didn't because I know on past experience that this likely wouldn't be the case. I wouldn't mind but despite the new addition of an admin' I don't feel much better informed as to what's going on.

Again desert, no one is questioning Rick's ability to map - he's good at it but the customer care and feedback loop is poor which can prove very frustrating for some people... Admittedly this is no longer Rick's fault as this is the job his admin' should be doing - keeping tabs on every car and keeping their owners informed on when to pick their car up and what problems arise but this hasn't happened without me dragging it out of them.

I don't belief my gripe to be unjustified. I expect reasonable and professional behaviour from a business when I will be parting with hundreds of pounds for their services, not only this but I expect to receive updates when they're in possession of my pride and joy, especially when not having it inconveniences me and this inconvenience is extended quite significantly and unnecessarily. The meth kit was received about a week prior to my car arriving so should have been checked and the issue rectified at that time.

I get the vibe you think I'm being unreasonable or maybe you just have an axe to grind with me, but I believe 99% of the forum seems to agree with my opinion on this issue of lacklustre communications.


----------



## desertstorm

HI Tom I have no axe to grind at all. I also don't think you are being unreasonable to expect a call back. Or to be contacted to say that the car wouldn't be available to be picked up. If you hadn't had the issue with the actuator on the turbo in the first place the car would probably have been mapped and you would be happy.
I really hope you get the car sorted and get a good result that you are happy with.


----------



## TT-Dru

Hope you get some good news today Tom [smiley=thumbsup.gif] 
Which wmi kit are you having fitted? Have to make a decision on mine soon.


----------



## Beunhaas

They can't adjust an actuator or fix a boost leak but they do fit a WMI kit :lol:

Lets hope the numbers make up for it!


----------



## TT Tom TT

Okay sorry, desert - it just came across that way, that's all.

Dru, I'm using AEM on their recommendation. Bill also uses the AEM WMI kit so it must be decent. Apparently snow performance aren't really affordable any more given they come from state-side and the exchange rate has been molested so hard...

Devil's Own are apparently not particularly reliable, never heard a bad word about the AEM so I'm glad it's being used.

Apparently the meth kit is fitted and is being wired in as we speak, supposed to be finished soon and some mapping will happen today and more tuning time tomorrow and maybe even Friday.

Either pick up tomorrow or Friday, time to do some more waiting but at least I got an update :!:

Let's hope for some nice graphs Beun 8)... I'm hoping to make a trio thread of our results (mine, yours and intott's) for people who are too lazy to read build threads to read.

It's pretty rare people do builds on this forum so for three people with three different turbos all finishing within a month of each other deserves its own thread for sure 8)...


----------



## Beunhaas

TT Tom TT said:


> Okay sorry, desert - it just came across that way, that's all.
> 
> Dru, I'm using AEM on their recommendation. Bill also uses the AEM WMI kit so it must be decent. Apparently snow performance aren't really affordable any more given they come from state-side and the exchange rate has been molested so hard...
> 
> Devil's Own are apparently not particularly reliable, never heard a bad word about the AEM so I'm glad it's being used.
> 
> Apparently the meth kit is fitted and is being wired in as we speak, supposed to be finished soon and some mapping will happen today and more tuning time tomorrow and maybe even Friday.
> 
> Either pick up tomorrow or Friday, time to do some more waiting but at least I got an update :!:
> 
> Let's hope for some nice graphs Beun 8)... I'm hoping to make a trio thread of our results (mine, yours and intott's) for people who are too lazy to read build threads to read.
> 
> It's pretty rare people do builds on this forum so for three people with three different turbos all finishing within a month of each other deserves its own thread for sure 8)...


Yeah lets hope some people go hybrid or something else it's going to be the usual tirepressure, oil, spacer topics.
Or i have to bite the bullet, go gtx3076 and aim for 600hp 8)


----------



## Matt B

If it's any consolation my bottom end is at the machine shop now being balanced and having a girdle fitted in advance of a EFR7163 build / so I'm sure mine will be just as problematic.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Beunhaas said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay sorry, desert - it just came across that way, that's all.
> 
> Dru, I'm using AEM on their recommendation. Bill also uses the AEM WMI kit so it must be decent. Apparently snow performance aren't really affordable any more given they come from state-side and the exchange rate has been molested so hard...
> 
> Devil's Own are apparently not particularly reliable, never heard a bad word about the AEM so I'm glad it's being used.
> 
> Apparently the meth kit is fitted and is being wired in as we speak, supposed to be finished soon and some mapping will happen today and more tuning time tomorrow and maybe even Friday.
> 
> Either pick up tomorrow or Friday, time to do some more waiting but at least I got an update :!:
> 
> Let's hope for some nice graphs Beun 8)... I'm hoping to make a trio thread of our results (mine, yours and intott's) for people who are too lazy to read build threads to read.
> 
> It's pretty rare people do builds on this forum so for three people with three different turbos all finishing within a month of each other deserves its own thread for sure 8)...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah lets hope some people go hybrid or something else it's going to be the usual tirepressure, oil, spacer topics.
> Or i have to bite the bullet, go gtx3076 and aim for 600hp 8)
Click to expand...

You're gonna' need a bigger boat, GTX3576R stroker!



Matt B said:


> If it's any consolation my bottom end is at the machine shop now being balanced and having a girdle fitted in advance of a EFR7163 build / so I'm sure mine will be just as problematic.


Who's going to be doing the mapping mate? That's gonna' be a beast.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Hoping for results today, if not then at least there's only one more day left ..?

Rick's dyno typically under-reads about 4%, for example - stage 2 Seat Leon Cupra R (BAM) was on the dyno with FMIC, 80mm TIP, 3" turbo-back...

Now Seat Leon owners who are FWD and have slightly less losses than us over AWD usually post dyno graphs of 285-290bhp with this set-up... His power was 274bhp and this has happened before.

Rick's dyno typically under-reads and the percentage is around 4% so for this reason my target on Rick's dyno is 384/385 bhp!

384 x 1.04 ---> 399.36
385 x 1.04 ---> 400.4


----------



## NickG

TT Tom TT said:


> Hoping for results today, if not then at least there's only one more day left ..?
> 
> Rick's dyno typically under-reads about 4%, for example - stage 2 Seat Leon Cupra R (BAM) was on the dyno with FMIC, 80mm TIP, 3" turbo-back...
> 
> Now Seat Leon owners who are FWD and have slightly less losses than us over AWD usually post dyno graphs of 285-290bhp with this set-up... His power was 274bhp and this has happened before.
> 
> Rick's dyno typically under-reads and the percentage is around 4% so for this reason my target on Rick's dyno is 384/385 bhp!
> 
> 384 x 1.04 ---> 399.36
> 385 x 1.04 ---> *400.4*


 *Edited for some bad maths! :lol: *

Who are you convincing, us or yourself?

You can't make a statement that his dyno under-reads based on a Seat Leon getting one figure and this setup "usually makes 285-290bhp". I'm sorry but every car varies and i'm confident you could take 10 different standard '225' TT's and run them on the same dyno and get results anywhere from 190-225bhp... you can't make a percentage guess on this based on that info.

(All you MIGHT be able to do is use the exact same car's results on different dyno's for comparison, but even then there are variables that have to be considered, temperature, fuel quality etc. etc.)

Just get what you get and be happy with how much better it feels, the numbers mean F-all so why bother manipulating them!

EDIT: On the positive side, all the best, hopefully they do deliver you a decent car tomorrow as it seems you're having a bit of a nightmare! Cars can be W***ers sometime! :lol:


----------



## TT Tom TT

NickG said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hoping for results today, if not then at least there's only one more day left ..?
> 
> Rick's dyno typically under-reads about 4%, for example - stage 2 Seat Leon Cupra R (BAM) was on the dyno with FMIC, 80mm TIP, 3" turbo-back...
> 
> Now Seat Leon owners who are FWD and have slightly less losses than us over AWD usually post dyno graphs of 285-290bhp with this set-up... His power was 274bhp and this has happened before.
> 
> Rick's dyno typically under-reads and the percentage is around 4% so for this reason my target on Rick's dyno is 384/385 bhp!
> 
> 384 x 1.04 ---> 399.36
> 385 x 1.04 ---> *400.4*
> 
> 
> 
> *Edited for some bad maths! :lol: *
> 
> Who are you convincing, us or yourself?
> 
> You can't make a statement that his dyno under-reads based on a Seat Leon getting one figure and this setup "usually makes 285-290bhp". I'm sorry but every car varies and i'm confident you could take 10 different standard '225' TT's and run them on the same dyno and get results anywhere from 190-225bhp... you can't make a percentage guess on this based on that info.
> 
> (All you MIGHT be able to do is use the exact same car's results on different dyno's for comparison, but even then there are variables that have to be considered, temperature, fuel quality etc. etc.)
> 
> Just get what you get and be happy with how much better it feels, the numbers mean F-all so why bother manipulating them!
> 
> EDIT: On the positive side, all the best, hopefully they do deliver you a decent car tomorrow as it seems you're having a bit of a nightmare! Cars can be W***ers sometime! :lol:
Click to expand...

Changed the wrong 4 to a 5 in a hurry, oops.

The Seat LCR was posted as an example, you will see people frequently troll Unicorn on their page saying "why didn't it make X amount of power like at MRC?" they get an MRC tuned car on their dyno and it actually comes out with worse numbers than their map.

If you look on their page at tunes they do you will see that people frequently get lower numbers than what's expected as it's a Dyno Tune AWD dyno rather than a 2WD Dyno Developments job which are optimistic - Probably 90% of tuners use Dyno Developments.

If it's not a big advantage to use a Dyno Developments dyno then when I use one to get a power run I guess it shouldn't read more but it will, this isn't me trying to over-inflate my power figures, I'm trying to create a level playing field is all...

Here's another example:

2017 Stage 2 Golf 7R. No intercooler on this one. Downpipe intake and TIP. Note the overboost on standard map giving a torque spike










Stage 2 Golf R's will run at 400bhp+ on anyone else's dyno, Google it for yourself. Stick this exact car on a DD dyno and it's a 400bhp+ machine.


----------



## NickG

TT Tom TT said:


> I'm trying to create a level playing field is all...


 That's my point exactly, there is no playing field!! You're not in a competition so surely all that matters is that it feels better to you personally? If that's what you get then don't get hung up on figures as it's obvious you are a bit sensitive and get disheartened when things don't meet your expectations!


----------



## TT Tom TT

NickG said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to create a level playing field is all...
> 
> 
> 
> That's my point exactly, there is no playing field!! You're not in a competition so surely all that matters is that it feels better to you personally? If that's what you get then don't get hung up on figures as it's obvious you are a bit sensitive and get disheartened when things don't meet your expectations!
Click to expand...

I just like numbers, especially when I have gone to so much effort... Any ways I have some results kinda'!


----------



## TT Tom TT

RESULT ARE IN! Kinda'...

Car is currently suffering from "inconsistent boost pressure" and too much pre-load. I'm hoping the two are related but it's suspected they're not

I'm going down there to adjust the actuator and hopefully remedy the situation.`

The target is 2.0 bar boost which it made but Rick had to come off the throttle as it was making this before it was safe to do so (something along these lines)...

At 1.6 bar my car is now making "over 360bhp" and we still have 0.4 bar left to go on top of that so near to 400bhp is looking within the realms of possibility at the moment.

I'll let you all know what happens...


----------



## Jools TT

TT Tom TT said:


> NickG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hoping for results today, if not then at least there's only one more day left ..?
> 
> Rick's dyno typically under-reads about 4%, for example - stage 2 Seat Leon Cupra R (BAM) was on the dyno with FMIC, 80mm TIP, 3" turbo-back...
> 
> Now Seat Leon owners who are FWD and have slightly less losses than us over AWD usually post dyno graphs of 285-290bhp with this set-up... His power was 274bhp and this has happened before.
> 
> Rick's dyno typically under-reads and the percentage is around 4% so for this reason my target on Rick's dyno is 384/385 bhp!
> 
> 384 x 1.04 ---> 399.36
> 385 x 1.04 ---> *400.4*
> 
> 
> 
> *Edited for some bad maths! :lol: *
> 
> Who are you convincing, us or yourself?
> 
> You can't make a statement that his dyno under-reads based on a Seat Leon getting one figure and this setup "usually makes 285-290bhp". I'm sorry but every car varies and i'm confident you could take 10 different standard '225' TT's and run them on the same dyno and get results anywhere from 190-225bhp... you can't make a percentage guess on this based on that info.
> 
> (All you MIGHT be able to do is use the exact same car's results on different dyno's for comparison, but even then there are variables that have to be considered, temperature, fuel quality etc. etc.)
> 
> Just get what you get and be happy with how much better it feels, the numbers mean F-all so why bother manipulating them!
> 
> EDIT: On the positive side, all the best, hopefully they do deliver you a decent car tomorrow as it seems you're having a bit of a nightmare! Cars can be W***ers sometime! :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Changed the wrong 4 to a 5 in a hurry, oops.
> 
> The Seat LCR was posted as an example, you will see people frequently troll Unicorn on their page saying "why didn't it make X amount of power like at MRC?" they get an MRC tuned car on their dyno and it actually comes out with worse numbers than their map.
> 
> If you look on their page at tunes they do you will see that people frequently get lower numbers than what's expected as it's a Dyno Tune AWD dyno rather than a 2WD Dyno Developments job which are optimistic - Probably 90% of tuners use Dyno Developments.
> 
> If it's not a big advantage to use a Dyno Developments dyno then when I use one to get a power run I guess it shouldn't read more but it will, this isn't me trying to over-inflate my power figures, I'm trying to create a level playing field is all...
> 
> Here's another example:
> 
> 2017 Stage 2 Golf 7R. No intercooler on this one. Downpipe intake and TIP. Note the overboost on standard map giving a torque spike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stage 2 Golf R's will run at 400bhp+ on anyone else's dyno, Google it for yourself. Stick this exact car on a DD dyno and it's a 400bhp+ machine.
Click to expand...

Good numbers on the golf 7R there , especially on a RR that under reads

322 bhp from a 300 bhp car [smiley=bigcry.gif]


----------



## Jools TT

TT Tom TT said:


> RESULT ARE IN! Kinda'...
> 
> Car is currently suffering from "inconsistent boost pressure" and too much pre-load. I'm hoping the two are related but it's suspected they're not
> 
> I'm going down there to adjust the actuator and hopefully remedy the situation.`
> 
> The target is 2.0 bar boost which it made but Rick had to come off the throttle as it was making this before it was safe to do so (something along these lines)...
> 
> At 1.6 bar my car is now making "over 360bhp" and we still have 0.4 bar left to go on top of that so near to 400bhp is looking within the realms of possibility at the moment.
> 
> I'll let you all know what happens...


Good numbers Tom , 360 bhp might be where it's at , that last 0.4bar may just generate more heat .
360 bhp is what I'm hoping for , anything more is a bonus


----------



## intott

Tom, your nearly there Dude! Well done for starting this project and well done for persevering in adversity. You've had a bit of a rough time with your build but a 360bhp + TT with early spool will be a beaut to drive.

You shouldn't worry about numbers - there more a reference if you ask me. It is hilarious because it seems every single dyno in the UK under reads. I have never com across someone who says their dyno is a little optimistic.

I would say however that holding 29psi at redline is optimistic. It may well make 2bar peak but to hold that till redline is seriously going some!!


----------



## desertstorm

Hi Tom I can really see your keen to get to that magical 400bhp mark. Don't take any of this as me dissing you. I was the same with my A4 3.0 TDI at Ricks in the end only made 387bhp and 750Nm with the water meth on. But it's a safe tune I run every day and have done with no issues. The water meth doesn't seem to make much difference on my diesel only about 5bhp.
Did see very close to 400bhp and over 800Nm on some of the tunes but I wanted it reliable, I am interested in having a reliable fast daily car and not a dyno queen.I have three nice glass trophies from GTI International for the fastest diesel running 13.1 at 109mph which says a lot more about the performance than a piece of paper with some squiggles on.








I know If I had taken it to quite a few dynos around the country it would have made more than 400bhp on theres. You can't say Ricks dyno reads low by 4%, what I think you can say is that it is conservative compared to most other peoples dynos.
This has been seen several times with customer tuned cars going elsewhere and recording better results, Also when taken to places such as Santa Pod Ricks cars are quicker than other cars that are apparently more powerful.
There are so many things that affect the results on a dyno and it's incredibly easy to get a better result if you want. Just by strapping the car a little looser and letting it climb the front roller it will make bigger numbers. My TT has almost new tyres on and he said to me that with older more worn tyres it would have probably been close to 280bhp and again on somebody elses dyno maybe 290bhp.
Rick wants you to be happy, A tune that is right on the edge is not the thing to have on a car unless you are entering a dyno runoff competition. If it blows up next week you won't be happy. Take it from me listen to what he has to say and you will be OK.Multiple maps are possible on these engines with switching via the pedals. The map on my TT supports this but only has a single map on it at the moment.
If you are targeting 400bhp with that turbo because Bill got just over 400bhp from his Lupo then you will be lucky to get that.
You have probably already read this. Bills dyno is similar to Ricks in that compared to others it is conservative.
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/ne ... 800/page-1

The Lupo that Bill has is very, very well sorted. It has stuff on it that makes a big difference such as the exhaust downpipe with a 3.5 inch collector. Rick will tell you that with these engines it all happens on the exhaust side, Getting the right manifold, exhaust system etc is critical to a good result. And I can guarantee you that every last last flange/ gasket etc was matched exactly. His Lupo is also running a NA intake cam I believe.
The turbo is an AET380 and as Bill has said 380bhp is closer to what most people will attain.
I hope you get to the bottom of the issues the car has and get a good result. Whatever the numbers are I am sure it will be very quick.


----------



## desertstorm

Posts by Bill on the AET380 I linked earlier.
"Remember this is ported and "port matched" to our Gen2 manifold 47mm outlet.
Unless you have the exact same manifold outlet it may not match up as well or perform like ours does.
Remember our lupo is built by us, turbo, induction kit, 3.5" downpipe, my 80mm TIP, water meth etc etc all is optimised... Flow matched, port matched... every little bit helps.. Its clearly a sweet spot in terms of complementary parts, which is why it has always worked well.. and shows when built to this level, can achieve nice power. Others scratching their heads from behind their laptops calling BS and other nonsense, because they clearly dont understand how these things work systematically. Where read such nonsense comments made by others as to the Lupo always making better than most results insinuating its rigged or fixed and BS, they just do not understand that the mix of parts I've made and used on this car have worked together extremely well.. The end results confirming this. Its a "goodun" thats for sure. Does'nt make the achieved results any less valid because others have'nt been able to do it.

This AET hbrids name is the clue to what I believe it is capable of on other cars, K04-380.... 380bhp is my anticipated outcome potential from this spec unit. Where our lupo on previous hybrid was 372bhp, we have on many occasions got to within 15-20bhp of lupo on assorted setups, inc my Gen2 and also relentless v4. The spec of the new billet compressor wheel is a 400+bhp capable comp wheel.. There should be no surprises that its capable of producing close to those outcomes in an ideal setup.


----------



## desertstorm

Hi Tom just noticed you are a member of ASN and you posted on that thread I linked to back in April 2016 when your turbo had just arrived. No wonder you are eager to get it sorted.
Karl.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Just a quick reply, absolutely knackered and going to get to bed soon.

New problem with the car, it is thought my turbo is defective. Rick believes the wastegate penny is not sitting flush... Every dyno run produces a different curve... All I did by adjusting the actuator was do what you'd expect but the runs are still inconsistent. Everything else with the car is deemed all in very good nick.

I think I've been unlucky and been given a turbo with a dud waste-gate. If you guys go to page 5 or 6 of this thread you'll see a picture of the waste-gate. It looks like a very cheap one and not a quality part compared to others I have seen...

So it's time to depart Unicorn whenever I can get there to pick the car up and figure out what's going to happen from here. One thing's looking likely at this point though - turbo's coming back off and it's going back to AET :lol:...

There's always somethin'.

P.S. As I mentioned, 363bhp at 23PSI, Bill has his AET-380 @ 28 PSI and I'll go as far as it goes before it starts losing efficiency so hopefully there is definitely more power to come but sadly not any time soon.


----------



## 3TT3

Bummer 
Not quite as extreme, but" there is allways something" 
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1650921


----------



## TT Tom TT

3TT3 said:


> Bummer
> Not quite as extreme, but" there is allways something"
> viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1650921


Always with these cars :/...

I have had a brain-storm in the twilight hours before I go to sleep and have just thought of something... There is a connection to the TIP on the back side with a big plastic end on it and a weird moulded on plastic hex nut... I don't know what this connection is but I do remember that it seemed a physical impossibility for me to get this fully into the tip. I left it sticking out by about an inch and a half more than it should and jubilee clipped it tight.

If someone could shed some light on what exactly this connection is (I don't have my car so I can't look and I can't remember where it goes) that would be massively helpful as maybe this could be related?


----------



## 3TT3

TT Tom TT said:


> 3TT3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bummer
> Not quite as extreme, but" there is allways something"
> viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1650921
> 
> 
> 
> Always with these cars :/...
> 
> I have had a brain-storm in the twilight hours before I go to sleep and have just thought of something... There is a connection to the TIP on the back side with a big plastic end on it and a weird moulded on plastic hex nut... I don't know what this connection is but I do remember that it seemed a physical impossibility for me to get this fully into the tip. I left it sticking out by about an inch and a half more than it should and jubilee clipped it tight.
> 
> If someone could shed some light on what exactly this connection is (I don't have my car so I can't look and I can't remember where it goes) that would be massively helpful as maybe this could be related?
Click to expand...

I think its this
viewtopic.php?p=6716154#p6716154

part no 06A133382P its to do with esp..
I cut mine down a little to maintain the same orientation as in the regular tip but the opinion was it would make sfa difference..I was getting surge.
Too lazy to go out n look where it connects up again.


----------



## desertstorm

Sorry to hear that you haven't still got is sorted although it's getting there. If you disconnect the downpipe from the turbo and unbolt it from the exhaust you should be able to get in with a camera and see what's going on with the wastegate.
I took this with my phone when I was replacing the downpipe.


----------



## Jools TT

FFS mate , feel your pain , 363 bhp @ 23 psi is promising , so don't lose faith .
If you need any close up photos of my AET-380 let me know before it goes on next week


----------



## Delta4

The pipe with the hex nut deals with fuel vapour, can't see being part of the current problem.


----------



## NickG

TT Tom TT said:


> AET-380 has now had the turbine step remove by Badger5 :mrgreen:
> 
> View attachment 1


While Bill was up close and personal, would he not have noticed if the wastegate was knackered? :? Definitely sure that's the problem?


----------



## Jools TT

NickG said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> AET-380 has now had the turbine step remove by Badger5 :mrgreen:
> 
> View attachment 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While Bill was up close and personal, would he not have noticed if the wastegate was knackered? :? Definitely sure that's the problem?
Click to expand...

Was thinking actuator myself ????


----------



## intott

Please tell me they have done a boost leak test?


----------



## Beunhaas

If the wastegate door isnt sitting flush it would mean its leaking so resulting in poor spool. Its always leaking the same ammount so has nothing to do with inconsistent boost levels.
If the actuator is too tight for its rating the ecu pid controller has a hard time to keep boostlevels close to specified. Like others have said i suspect the wastegate control. Actuator, hoses, n75 things like that.

If i were close i would have helped you a long time ago but thats not possible.


----------



## TT Tom TT

NickG said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> AET-380 has now had the turbine step remove by Badger5 :mrgreen:
> 
> View attachment 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While Bill was up close and personal, would he not have noticed if the wastegate was knackered? :? Definitely sure that's the problem?
Click to expand...

The turbo was new at this point so would yet to be deformed, it does look like a cheap part compared to the one on autovogue335d's car though... They look world's apart in quality. It's like looking at a Renault Espace and then an Audi R8...



intott said:


> Please tell me they have done a boost leak test?


They did, I guess they must have bought the equipment? System was sealed.



Beunhaas said:


> If the wastegate door isnt sitting flush it would mean its leaking so resulting in poor spool. Its always leaking the same ammount so has nothing to do with inconsistent boost levels.
> If the actuator is too tight for its rating the ecu pid controller has a hard time to keep boostlevels close to specified. Like others have said i suspect the wastegate control. Actuator, hoses, n75 things like that.
> 
> If i were close i would have helped you a long time ago but thats not possible.


The spool changes from one run to the next with nothing changing which is why Rick believes the wastegate either isn't sitting right or there's a problem with the actuator or a bit of both.

I think the only option is for the turbo to be sent back to AET so they can find out what's going on. If you cast your mind back the pre-load on this actuator was miles out so it stands to reason that something odd could be going on with it or perhaps the actuator is fine and it's the wastegate that is acting odd but it seems to be one of the two.

Rick said it's not the N75 as the funny behaviour and differences in spool were still occuring with it unplugged running on actuator pressure. Lord knows how I manage to buy a new turbo that's faulty :lol:...

P.S. No matter what the problem I never feel as bad as I used to, I know you guys are always around to lend a helping hand and suggest various possibilities to help me which is massively supportive and comforting. Very lucky to have so many great posters on this forum who are willing to take time from their busy lives to try and help me 8).


----------



## TT Tom TT

Hi folks, I asked Bill for some help and this was his possible suggestion:

__________________

If there is stiction on wastegate opening it can be caused by misalignment of turbo assembly, chra, to hotside to comp cover/actuator bracket, where the actuator rod "could" if misaligned, catch on the egt sensor. Again, this is the sort of thing checked.. (when we build them and sell our kit/map them) We have a much more experience on these things given we invented the things, and have supplied/sold many&#8230;

Worth checking the orientation of the unit and see if the actuator rod is too close to the egt.. most likely culprit, easy to look at with mirror down the back..

_________________

Which EGT is he referring to? If I sent the above message to Unicorn would you expect they'll know what to look for? Would the fix be a case of merely bending the bracket that the actuator sits on (non-clevet actuator)?


----------



## desertstorm

Rick would know what that is however getting access to the turbo to do stuff isn't the easiest .
Taken a picture from the AET website, The red arrow shows the location of the EGT sensor. The actuator rod passes very close to where it would be plugged in.It would be very easy for the actuator rod to foul on the sensor.
As Bill says you could probably get a mirror down the back to have a look or even your phone to take a picture/ video.


----------



## TT Tom TT

desertstorm said:


> Rick would know what that is however getting access to the turbo to do stuff isn't the easiest .
> Taken a picture from the AET website, The red arrow shows the location of the EGT sensor. The actuator rod passes very close to where it would be plugged in.It would be very easy for the actuator rod to foul on the sensor.
> As Bill says you could probably get a mirror down the back to have a look or even your phone to take a picture/ video.


Cheers pal, was the EGT sensor location that I wasn't sure on so this helps me a bunch. I've asked Bill how best to remedy the situation IF this is what the cause of the problem is. I did notice when I did the actuator adjustments and I had both nuts loosened that the travel of the wastegate arm on the actuator was very notchy, I'm guessing this may be why and would explain the sporadic boost curves.

I assume Perhaps the bracket can be bent just a little so there is no fouling. Of course this is irrelevant until it's inspected with a mirror as Bill has suggested. We'll see what happens.


----------



## Jools TT

TT Tom TT said:


> desertstorm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rick would know what that is however getting access to the turbo to do stuff isn't the easiest .
> Taken a picture from the AET website, The red arrow shows the location of the EGT sensor. The actuator rod passes very close to where it would be plugged in.It would be very easy for the actuator rod to foul on the sensor.
> As Bill says you could probably get a mirror down the back to have a look or even your phone to take a picture/ video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers pal, was the EGT sensor location that I wasn't sure on so this helps me a bunch. I've asked Bill how best to remedy the situation IF this is what the cause of the problem is. I did notice when I did the actuator adjustments and I had both nuts loosened that the travel of the wastegate arm on the actuator was very notchy, I'm guessing this may be why and would explain the sporadic boost curves.
> 
> I assume Perhaps the bracket can be bent just a little so there is no fouling. Of course this is irrelevant until it's inspected with a mirror as Bill has suggested. We'll see what happens.
Click to expand...

Sounds promising


----------



## 3TT3

If it is catching v slightly on the sensor 
(sounds like a bit of a design flaw for such an expensive item) , but

rather than bending anything  ,perhaps this slight catching could be fixed by loosening all 4 mounting nuts on the bracket and moving the bracket ,and actuator in the arrowed directions to take up any bolt hole play?


----------



## TT Tom TT

Apparently the solution is to rotate the cold side of the compressor housing - anyone any experience with how hard this is to do in situ as from looking at the photos of the turbo I don't even see the bolt(s) to loosen required to swivel it?

Of course I don't know yet whether or not this is what I'll need to do as I don't have my car so can't examine if the actuator is fouling on the EGT hex-nut... But if it is I'd like to know if this is possible or easier to take the turbo off the car than to try and do it with it on the car.

Anyone have any experience?


----------



## Wak

Your actuator bracket suggestion would only work if the bracket had slotted holes to allow some rotation which it doesn't

Clocking is unfortunately loosening the 6 bolts , rotating slightly and retightening them so you do need to have access or small tools and tiny hands


----------



## Wak

Not sure but that turbo picture may only have 4 bolts for clocking but doesn't mean it's any more accessible


----------



## Delta4

Is it not possible to remove to actuator bracket to elongate the holes ?


----------



## TT Tom TT

Wak said:


> Not sure but that turbo picture may only have 4 bolts fit clocking but doesn't mean it's any more accessible


I'm thinking remove the TIP and go in through the side with small tools? Feasible or more hastle than it's worth? I'm contemplating picking my car up and taking it to AET and having them fix it, surely it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect them to correct a problem? I believe they come with a two year warranty (if memory serves), got it lying about somewhere so don't see why they couldn't help out gratis? They're 65 miles away.

Or of course if there is no clearance issue between actuator rod and EGT sensor, again, take the car to AET and ask them to remove the turbo and inspect the turbo for defects? At the end of the day the actuator was set-up wrong from the get go and I made them aware of this via phone-call three to four weeks ago. As we know there may be an issue with the actual waste-gate itself. Could I also expect this service gratis on the assumption that they find something wrong?


----------



## Madmax199

Dude, If ... and that's the BIG IF the actuator rod making contact is your issue... I would rather modify the actuator bracket a million times before considering reclocking the turbo. Making the bracket do and fit whatever/wherever you want is so easy. When you reclock a turbo (not that it's hard to do) but you have to also modify everything else that will be attached to it (or you'll also run into clearance issues.

Elongated holes, drilling new holes are all viable options to place the actuator where it's not an issue .... although I doubt that's the problem.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Madmax199 said:


> Dude, If ... and that's the BIG IF the actuator rod making contact is your issue... I would rather modify the actuator bracket a million times before considering reclocking the turbo. Making the bracket do and fit whatever/wherever you want is so easy. When you reclock a turbo (not that it's hard to do) but you have to also modify everything else that will be attached to it (or you'll also run into clearance issues.
> 
> Elongated holes, drilling new holes are all viable options to place the actuator where it's not an issue .... although I doubt that's the problem.


I'll bear that in mind, would be nice if they provided me with a product that worked... Misaligned actuator / malfunctioning actuator / warped wastegate passage / warped wastegate penny is not acceptable for a premium turbo I'm sure you'll agree.

I'm going to collect the car on Tuesday, will investigate same day and then phone AET if I have time (unlikely).


----------



## intott

Imo it's not AETs' job to set the wg or correctly clock the housing - just because there not set correctly doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it......the person who fitted it should have check all these things and made sure it was correct before finally fitting it to the car. Just standard fitters practice in reality. 
The actuator arm can easily be fettled, moved out the way and reset. I would say this could be done insitu tbh or it's at least worth a try before pulling the thing off.


----------



## TT Tom TT

intott said:


> Imo it's not AETs' job to set the wg or correctly clock the housing - just because there not set correctly doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it......the person who fitted it should have check all these things and made sure it was correct before finally fitting it to the car. Just standard fitters practice in reality.
> The actuator arm can easily be fettled, moved out the way and reset. I would say this could be done insitu tbh or it's at least worth a try before pulling the thing off.


Have you seen the picture? I don't see how the actuator arm can be fettled to lie at a different angle and prevent it from catching on the EGT sensor... If I try altering the bracket and start drilling holes in it and it still doesn't work I'd imagine AET could then refuse to work on the unit. As said I haven't examined it and won't until Tuesday, if the rod isn't being obstructed / catching on the sensor then there's a WG issue. Either way I don't see how it was the fitters responsibility here? He's not a turbo specialist, how would he know if the WG penny is deformed? I couldn't tell...

Really confused as to how it is my responsibility / issue or my mechanics issue that the turbo isn't functioning as intended due to a design flaw or turbo build / orientation issue?


----------



## intott

From the picture it seems like there should be no issue. If it is a wobbly wg penny than yes it is not your problem. Maybe. How hot has it been getting trying to push the boost levels?

When i fitted my turbo - and I'm no turbo specialist. I checked that the actuator was set with correct wg preload before the final install. I think yours was set incorrectly from the get go? I would also have found that when fitting the egt sensor that it was rubbing on the actuator arm. It would be near impossible to fit without noticing these things. 
If the fitter had to clock the chra to align the compressor outlet pipe to the charge pipe after fitting the wg then potentially this has caused the miss alignment.

Tbh, we are guessing atm as without a decent diagnosis it could be anything.

Ps here to help not make digs


----------



## ady117

File a flat on the actuator rod ????


----------



## 3TT3

Have a look at it.
If it is the merest catching at full extension,any small play with loosened bolts as originally suggested may remove the prob.
Perhaps it could even be the sensor has an edge /corner sticking out ,but that would have been a fitting thing,as I suppose would actuator tension ?

I would suspect that aet wotever wont be doing any self removal ,would be of the attitude that the mech should have noticed any manufacturing/fitting probs and returned it.


----------



## Wak

TT Tom TT said:


> Have you seen the picture? I don't see how the actuator arm can be fettled to lie at a different angle and prevent it from catching on the EGT sensor...


Just fyi as the comment above sounds like you need explanation.

The bolts that hold the actuator bracket are also the bolts that are loosened for clocking a turbo. 
Loosen them and a rotate of a few mm maybe all that's needed if actuator rod fouling is the issue and a few mm of clocking shouldn't create any issues around fitting unless the turbo outlet was already at a position where a hose were tough to get on.

As far as responsibility 
1. The turbo should be supplied with the actuator set up ready to go to the setting AET specified, that's their responsibility.

2. It's a not good practice for a mechanic that doesn't verify this before bolting up a part that's hard to correct when fitted so IMO it is 100% the guy who is paid to deal with a turbo to verify and have the simple tools to check and confirm it's set up to spec! 
Specially if it's been sent with completely the wrong actuator as has happened before! 
If your fitter can't or won't do this or shrugs shoulders to say I fitted what was supplied without checking, they shouldn't be in the business of fitting turbos!

3. Why 2? Because there is 5% chance it won't go on as supplied and needs some clocking so a fitter should have the tools to check it's as expected and be able to check it's correct after adjustment as well as before!

I've had Chinese turbos with small wastegate holes, quality hybrids with the wrong actuator supplied, poorly setup actuators under manifolds with no access to adjust them, and various setups that have all come with promises that just can not be met because of the hardware or the hardware setup this thread just highlights some of the issues the software tuner has to work with and the inconvenience and costs to an owner because at very least each step should have been done properly so the tuner has a sound foundation to work on.


----------



## Gtturbo

Also if the mechanic had altered the turbo and it went wrong Aet could say it was misadjusted by him.

It's an expensive kit, it should be fit, tune and forget, anything less than that isn't acceptable in my eyes.


----------



## chisharpe

mate you have had zero luck with this build. £££ pouring out everywhere. all i can say is i have done the same years ago with a BAM Mk2 Golf. Just stick with it and chalk it up to bad luck. it will get where you want it to be. but im pretty sure its time to get your own spanners out now as taking out the turbo again is just more expense you dont need.

it will be finished and this will all be a distant memory :lol:


----------



## Gonzalo1495

Nothing worth doing in life is easy. Persevere Tom. You got this.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Okay update, car collected. Examined it whilst I was there, managed to get my phone with flash down the back and record what was going on in regards actuator rod versus EGT sensor...

Max was right, it was indeed a "BIG IF" the clearance was sufficient and it definitely wasn't fouling. Funny thing is though is that you can move the actuator a little up and down and when doing so you can hear a metallic clink sounding like it's coming from the waste-gate as if it's not quite seated correctly which is what's believed to be the issue any way.

I phoned AET explaining that I won't be taking the turbo off myself and will incur labour charges because of this and they say that they don't cover labour charges...

Problem is I hate being under the car under a jack and axle stands. I'm claustrophobic and the few things I have done such as adjusting the coilovers I really haven't liked, puts me massively on edge - but more than happy to work in the bay. If I had a pit or a ramp I'd be more than happy but I don't. So I'm gonna' be getting my mech' to remove it and get it sent off to AET. Might as well get some new oil too as it's gonna' be drained I suppose. Coming up for about 4k miles with no change any way so makes sense.

At least they're going to pay for the turbo to be collected I suppose!


----------



## ady117

TT Tom TT said:


> Okay update, car collected. Examined it whilst I was there, managed to get my phone with flash down the back and record what was going on in regards actuator rod versus EGT sensor...
> 
> Max was right, it was indeed a "BIG IF" the clearance was sufficient and it definitely wasn't fouling. Funny thing is though is that you can move the actuator a little up and down and when doing so you can hear a metallic clink sounding like it's coming from the waste-gate as if it's not quite seated correctly which is what's believed to be the issue any way.
> 
> I phoned AET explaining that I won't be taking the turbo off myself and will incur labour charges because of this and they say that they don't cover labour charges...
> 
> Problem is I hate being under the car under a jack and axle stands. I'm claustrophobic and the few things I have done such as adjusting the coilovers I really haven't liked, puts me massively on edge - but more than happy to work in the bay. If I had a pit or a ramp I'd be more than happy but I don't. So I'm gonna' be getting my mech' to remove it and get it sent off to AET. Might as well get some new oil too as it's gonna' be drained I suppose. Coming up for about 4k miles with no change any way so makes sense.
> 
> At least they're going to pay for the turbo to be collected I suppose!


send turbo back packed on a pallet of concrete blocks... if they pay the postage, and just say ... you don't send stuff any other way.


----------



## chisharpe

Aet will never pay labour shame you have to take it out.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Okay so I just found out it's gonna' cost £250 to take it off and re-fit. I can EASILY remove all connections other than downpipe and the lines, are these bits SUPER SUPER hard because I can't honestly part with £250 when I shouldn't have to... It's just not right.

Am I right in thinking that a turbo removal is the following:
- Undo jubilee clip from TIP and wiggle it off (easy enough)
- Pull N75 line that connects to actuator (yep no problem)
- Undo 3 bolts from mani' to turbo (piece of cake)
- Undo 3 bolts from turbo to down pipe (hard?)
- Remove EGT sensor (fiddly but doable?)
- Remove oil feed (completely unknown quantity to me, not even sure how to remove it and what fitting it uses)?
- Coolant line (unsure where this is?)

Also what's the reinstallation procedure? How do you 're-prime' the turbo? Have I missed anything and is this all possible from sitting on my rocker cover bent over :??

@ady, half a mind to [smiley=bomb.gif]!


----------



## ady117

lol... hope you get this sorted... and they make you a happy customer.


----------



## NickG

The difficult part is the turbo support bracket which I renowned for being an ass to get off in-situ!

Downpipe nuts are tricky but doable with the correct tools. Oil and coolant fees and returns can be tricky, you'll need to go under the car for the returns.

I know a good number of people who hate working under cars, I don't get it, you couldn't pay me to work in a pit... give me axel stands any day!


----------



## TT Tom TT

NickG said:


> The difficult part is the turbo support bracket which I renowned for being an ass to get off in-situ!
> 
> Downpipe nuts are tricky but doable with the correct tools. Oil and coolant fees and returns can be tricky, you'll need to go under the car for the returns.
> 
> I know a good number of people who hate working under cars, I don't get it, you couldn't pay me to work in a pit... give me axel stands any day!


I didn't even remember that bit... Sounds too much of a pain in the arse, need to find myself a magic money tree. So weird how we can be opposites in regard to working location, I'm constantly in an anxiety state when my car's on a stand.


----------



## NickG

TT Tom TT said:


> NickG said:
> 
> 
> 
> The difficult part is the turbo support bracket which I renowned for being an ass to get off in-situ!
> 
> Downpipe nuts are tricky but doable with the correct tools. Oil and coolant fees and returns can be tricky, you'll need to go under the car for the returns.
> 
> I know a good number of people who hate working under cars, I don't get it, you couldn't pay me to work in a pit... give me axel stands any day!
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't even remember that bit... Sounds too much of a pain in the arse, need to find myself a magic money tree. So weird how we can be opposites in regard to working location, I'm constantly in an anxiety state when my car's on a stand.
Click to expand...

You wouldn't like the car i'm currently breaking then, it's on blocks at the front (Shell to be scrapped) and since i removed the rear subframe, diff, exhaust, trailing arms etc. i can lift the back entirely with very little effort!

Will shove a few bags of sand in the boot when it's time to remove the engine :lol:


----------



## TT Tom TT

NickG said:


> You wouldn't like the car i'm currently breaking then, it's on blocks at the front (Shell to be scrapped) and since i removed the rear subframe, diff, exhaust, trailing arms etc. i can lift the back entirely with very little effort!
> 
> Will shove a few bags of sand in the boot when it's time to remove the engine :lol:


Yeah that sounds like the stuff of nightmares to me. You know a TT's really in bits when you can lift the rear without stinking of Winstrol :lol:


----------



## TT Tom TT

Hi all,

Turbo is off the car, will be taking some photos and possibly putting up some video links at around 8 o'clock tonight. Hoping some of you helpful people will be able to take a look and examine the evidence, see if you can see anything untoward.

Sadly my HTC One M8 android camera based phone's quality isn't the best so this could be a limiting factor but I'll try my best. Hoping to see something obvious!

Let's hope for a result ...


----------



## TT Tom TT

I've retrieved the turbo and had a look, the wastegate penny is loose which to my mind doesn't seem correct? I've took a photo and a video to try and illustrate what I'm getting at:










View My Video


----------



## intott

The video doesn't work for me.......
The penny is supposed to be slightly loose on the flapper arm. 
A tip - turn all the lights off and shine a torch into to the hot side inlet. If you can see any light around the wg port with the flapper closed than you have a warped wg.


----------



## TT Tom TT

intott said:


> The video doesn't work for me.......
> The penny is supposed to be slightly loose on the flapper arm.
> A tip - turn all the lights off and shine a torch into to the hot side inlet. If you can see any light around the wg port with the flapper closed than you have a warped wg.


I've tried re-uploading but does the same weird glitch, I'll try another site soon. I'll try that out now and see what happens.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Just tried it and it's producing a strong semi-circular halo, if I push the wastegate against the seat then a thin halo is still there... Bad seat / warped wastegate it seems ..?


----------



## desertstorm

Glad you have found something wrong with it. Needs to go back to AET now to get sorted.


----------



## TT Tom TT

desertstorm said:


> Glad you have found something wrong with it. Needs to go back to AET now to get sorted.


They're arranging collection for tomorrow...

Sadly it's not as simple as I anticipate though, I increased the pre-load back to where I had it before I slackened it off and now the WG seals absolutely fine :?...

I have to now pray that it's the inside of the actuator that's screwed up. I have the most awful feeling that I'm going to phone AET on Thursday / Friday and they're going to tell me that they found nothing amiss and I'm going to be screwed as I have no other plausible or possible cause :x... Ghost car...


----------



## ady117

well done so far... fingers crossed for you :?


----------



## Madmax199

TT Tom TT said:


> desertstorm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you have found something wrong with it. Needs to go back to AET now to get sorted.
> 
> 
> 
> They're arranging collection for tomorrow...
> 
> Sadly it's not as simple as I anticipate though, I increased the pre-load back to where I had it before I slackened it off and now the WG seals absolutely fine :?...
> 
> I have to now pray that it's the inside of the actuator that's screwed up. *I have the most awful feeling that I'm going to phone AET on Thursday / Friday and they're going to tell me that they found nothing amiss* and I'm going to be screwed as I have no other plausible or possible cause :x... Ghost car...
Click to expand...

I have had that feeling from the get go - but you had so many people sending you in different directions that I didn't want to say anything or step on any toes. Preloaded properly ...check - actuator rod clearance... check, what are we left with? Something in the electronic boost control ... or incompetence with the tuning. Time for you to solve that riddle yourself!


----------



## TT Tom TT

Madmax199 said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> desertstorm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you have found something wrong with it. Needs to go back to AET now to get sorted.
> 
> 
> 
> They're arranging collection for tomorrow...
> 
> Sadly it's not as simple as I anticipate though, I increased the pre-load back to where I had it before I slackened it off and now the WG seals absolutely fine :?...
> 
> I have to now pray that it's the inside of the actuator that's screwed up. *I have the most awful feeling that I'm going to phone AET on Thursday / Friday and they're going to tell me that they found nothing amiss* and I'm going to be screwed as I have no other plausible or possible cause :x... Ghost car...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have had that feeling from the get go - but you had so many people sending you in different directions that I didn't want to say anything or step on any toes. Preloaded properly ...check - actuator rod clearance... check, what are we left with? Something in the electronic boost control ... or incompetence with the tuning. Time for you to solve that riddle yourself!
Click to expand...

They're supposed to be sending over some logs to me soon so I can forward them to AET to see if they correlate the graphs to a particular fault in the turbo.

Mind giving them a look over when they arrive?

I can try my best to explain from memory but without the graphs in front of me it's tough:

With actuator over pre-loaded (20 psi on actuator pressure with N75 disconnected) nice fast spool but every time they did a dyno run the power curve and spool varied every time. Funny thing is, I had to pre-load the actuator this much for the waste-gate penny to seal up properly. When I slacked it off and it made 14 PSI the waste-gate penny wasn't sealing properly. Dodgy spool both times though.

With actuator set at 14 psi (that's what this actuator should be) N75 disconnected again, laggy spool and again different power curve every time.

It was hypothesised that there's a sticky / failed actuator or warped wastegate penny... Seems so odd for a new turbo and an actuator that's never really been put through its paces to be faulty.

I'm kinda' unsure how an electrical issue could cause the inconsistent power and spool times though when the N75 was taken out of the equation? I thought the thought can't be due to temperamental electronics as it was exhibiting these behaviours on actuator pressure?


----------



## stevov

What were the afr's through the power curve.
Fueling is power. Fueling is boost. Fueling is electronically controled. Once you disconnected the actuator from electronic control then any problem with the turbo would have been a consistent one. A wrapped wastegate wouldn't unwarp and a weak spring doesn't strengthen and weaken. The proviso to this is the wastegate is free to move through full range.


----------



## TT Tom TT

stevov said:


> What were the afr's through the power curve.
> Fueling is power. Fueling is boost. Fueling is electronically controled. Once you disconnected the actuator from electronic control then any problem with the turbo would have been a consistent one. A wrapped wastegate wouldn't unwarp and a weak spring doesn't strengthen and weaken. *The proviso to this is the wastegate is free to move through full range.*


How can I test this with the turbo off the car? I noticed that when you loosen the two hex nuts either side of the wastegate arm, the movement is very restricted. It gets caught on the threads, I don't really think what I've said is that relevant though when it usually moves via and with the rod... Don't know how I can simulate the actuator to make the WG do it's thing... I don't have a handpump with a gauge. Could I give the actuator nipple the kiss of life :lol:?


----------



## stevov

If the turbo is off then just send it away. At least it will be setback to factoryspec and eliminate a potential fault.


----------



## Beunhaas

And check for EGT sensor clearance, crack open pressure and smooth wastegate operation before putting your new turbo back in


----------



## TT Tom TT

After examining the turbo AET have found that the actuator arm has "stretched" and isn't "correctly aligned" when asked how this may have happened he could only theorise excessive heat. I said surely the turbo isn't fit for purpose if the arm has melted / deformed?

He said that "it hadn't deformed"... Confused by this comment I rebutted "You just told me it's stretched though? That means it's deformed, metal can't change shape without melting and deforming (to make a new shape)"... He replied "that's right yeah..."

Slightly confused... He said hybrid turbos only have a 12 month warranty thus meaning mine is out of warranty, nevertheless they are going to correct the issue free of charge (not to sound ungrateful but as if I wasn't already in the whole enough?). The welder is in on Thursday, they are going to do a beefier weld with a new actuator rod which should cure the issue(s) I was having. I tried my best to get some kind of contribution from them on recovering the labour costs of having the turbo removed and refitted but they absolutely would not change stance the issue no matter how much I quoted the consumer rights act.

Let this be a warning to those of you who are going to or have recently purchased the AET-380, things can go wrong. If they do - this thread should give you an idea of what may be the culprit and I will do my best to remind you of the issues raised in this thread if your AET-380 build starts going belly up!

At least we know what's wrong and when I get the turbo back, have it re-fitted and then the map done properly we will have some numbers! How long will this take..? How long's a piece of string...


----------



## Delta4

At least the situation is heading in the right direction, surely other aet-380 turbo's have suffered with the same BS issue


----------



## TT Tom TT

Delta4 said:


> At least the situation is heading in the right direction, surely other aet-380 turbo's have suffered with the same BS issue


Yep, that's something I forgot to mention in my post - the turbo-builder on the phone did say this issue has happened with a few of the other AET-380's so it's absolutely something to look out for.

I hope that everyone else's is fine and mine was just an anomaly, wouldn't wish this experience on my worst enemy but as you said, at least it's on the home stretch... For the third time :lol: :roll: [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]


----------



## ady117

TT Tom TT said:


> Delta4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> At least the situation is heading in the right direction, surely other aet-380 turbo's have suffered with the same BS issue
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, that's something I forgot to mention in my post - the turbo-builder on the phone did say this issue has happened with a few of the other AET-380's so it's absolutely something to look out for.
> 
> I hope that everyone else's is fine and mine was just an anomaly, wouldn't wish this experience on my worst enemy but as you said, at least it's on the home stretch... For the third time :lol: :roll: [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]
Click to expand...

Is it the long actuator rod or the small shaft that runs through the body that has distorted under normal use ?


----------



## Delta4

Third time lucky an all that  your experience is not wasted as it may save some one else a lot of grief.


----------



## TT Tom TT

ady117 said:


> Is it the long actuator rod or the small shaft that runs through the body that has distorted under normal use ?


(Long) actuator arm not wastegate arm.



Delta4 said:


> Third time lucky an all that  your experience is not wasted as it may save some one else a lot of grief.


Hopefully !


----------



## Beunhaas

But if its stretched then a few turns on the asjusting nuts should have solver that right? :?


----------



## desertstorm

At least they have identified an issue that will hopefully be cured by them. Take some pictures of the offending actuator and rod when it comes back, be interesting to see what they have done. 
I wonder if they are doing anything to modify new turbos going forward. If this has happened to a few people already then a little product development is required to redesign the part.
I am not surprised they aren't interested in paying towards the labor costs and extra expense you have incurred. They probably think they are doing you a favor sorting this seeing the turbo is over 12 months old.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Beunhaas said:


> But if its stretched then a few turns on the asjusting nuts should have solver that right? :?


Honestly, I don't know mate... When I looked at it I couldn't see any evidence of the actuator arm having melted or deformed at all - in hindsight I'm guessing that what ady was alluding to must be correct. He must have meant the external wastegate arm has warped slightly which means the actuator isn't operating the WG as intended?

Fuck knows :?... I still need these graphs from my tuner to shed some light on the situation me thinks. AET need them to see if the fault they've found will correlate to what's seen in the graphs.


----------



## TT Tom TT

desertstorm said:


> At least they have identified an issue that will hopefully be cured by them. Take some pictures of the offending actuator and rod when it comes back, be interesting to see what they have done.
> I wonder if they are doing anything to modify new turbos going forward. If this has happened to a few people already then a little product development is required to redesign the part.
> I am not surprised they aren't interested in paying towards the labor costs and extra expense you have incurred. They probably think they are doing you a favor sorting this seeing the turbo is over 12 months old.


Yep, certainly came across that way to me. It says quite proudly and boldly on the footer of their website that they have a 24 month turbo warranty though which is what frustrated me but he said that hybrid turbos only come with a 12 month one... Sneaky, sneaky - I thought it was too good to be true that a turbo that's going to be pushed harder than OEM could come with such a long warranty.


----------



## Jools TT

Glad your getting this sorted , surely if AET have identified a weakness/***** in the k04-380 armour , then all units should be recalled or problem addressed . ( FREE )
My build should be ready for mapping mid November so to say this has caused me a few concerns ...............

Think I might drop them an email and Bill who sold me the package and see what feedback is forthcoming .


----------



## TT Tom TT

autovogue335d said:


> Glad your getting this sorted , surely if AET have identified a weakness/***** in the k04-380 armour , then all units should be recalled or problem addressed . ( FREE )
> My build should be ready for mapping mid November so to say this has caused me a few concerns ...............
> 
> Think I might drop them an email and Bill who sold me the package and see what feedback is forthcoming .


Hopefully nothing will go wrong, but if it does it won't present itself until AFTER a few proper spool ups. You'll finish your build before me. Sickening to think really :lol:...


----------



## Pow3rL3ss

autovogue335d said:


> Glad your getting this sorted , surely if AET have identified a weakness/***** in the k04-380 armour , then all units should be recalled or problem addressed . ( FREE )
> My build should be ready for mapping mid November so to say this has caused me a few concerns ...............
> 
> Think I might drop them an email and Bill who sold me the package and see what feedback is forthcoming .


I've emailed Bill about it myself as booked in for end of November for fitting, bit worried myself now.

Tom yours wasn't supplied by Bill was it, and the actuator itself is that different to the one on Bills website?


----------



## Gtturbo

Turbo company's very rarely do any free warranty work.

There is always a spec of dirt or something else which they instantly claim is the fault.

Turbo technics are fucking terrible for it to which I refuse to use them anymore as the warranty means sweet f all.

If you had light shining through the wastegate port and then it closed properly once moved that is the problem Rick was battling on the dyno.

Is the actuator rod was stretched it'd be consistently not sealing the wastegate penny. 
Unless you mean the "arm" as in the actuator bracket that it mounts to is flexing?

This is really backing up my reasons to not bother with hybrids and just buy a brand new standard k04-064 with 2 year warranty

I'll keep watching this thread to see how this pans out tho good luck


----------



## Jools TT

Pow3rL3ss said:


> autovogue335d said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad your getting this sorted , surely if AET have identified a weakness/***** in the k04-380 armour , then all units should be recalled or problem addressed . ( FREE )
> My build should be ready for mapping mid November so to say this has caused me a few concerns ...............
> 
> Think I might drop them an email and Bill who sold me the package and see what feedback is forthcoming .
> 
> 
> 
> I've emailed Bill about it myself as booked in for end of November for fitting, bit worried myself now.
> 
> Tom yours wasn't supplied by Bill was it, and the actuator itself is that different to the one on Bills website?
Click to expand...

Any reply from Bill yet ?


----------



## TT Tom TT

Pow3rL3ss said:


> I've emailed Bill about it myself as booked in for end of November for fitting, bit worried myself now.
> 
> Tom yours wasn't supplied by Bill was it, and the actuator itself is that different to the one on Bills website?


Exactly the same as the one's Bill sells, same actuator, same everything... Even had the hot-side ported by Bill despite buying it from AET.


----------



## Pow3rL3ss

autovogue335d said:


> Pow3rL3ss said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> autovogue335d said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad your getting this sorted , surely if AET have identified a weakness/***** in the k04-380 armour , then all units should be recalled or problem addressed . ( FREE )
> My build should be ready for mapping mid November so to say this has caused me a few concerns ...............
> 
> Think I might drop them an email and Bill who sold me the package and see what feedback is forthcoming .
> 
> 
> 
> I've emailed Bill about it myself as booked in for end of November for fitting, bit worried myself now.
> 
> Tom yours wasn't supplied by Bill was it, and the actuator itself is that different to the one on Bills website?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any reply from Bill yet ?
Click to expand...

Yep:-

"Nope.
That would be BS you have read

Impossible to deform stretch an arm on an actuator."


----------



## TT Tom TT

I think I need to clarify what has been said thinking about this now...

I believe that the actuator ARM has been deformed and the ROD is okay. This would make sense as it's the actuator ARM which connects to the hotside and could deform, the ROD is a good inch away.

I've highlighted what I believe the issue is to clarify for everyone, sorry for my ambiguity up until now.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Got the turbo back, it's had the hot-side cleaned up nicely...

From what I can see it appears they've put on a new arm and re-enforced the weld of the arm onto the turbo significantly. I also have had a new waste-gate fitted.

The actuator settings are done by a jig apparently, the actuator arm is now very far along the actuator rod once more as can be seen but the wastegate penny is sealed.

Let's hope when it gets back on the dyno it finally performs without any odd behaviour...


----------



## philclemo

Looks like you could be approaching the home straight Tom. Fingers crossed for you mate.


----------



## 3TT3

Now youll be able to look forward to "normal" probs


----------



## chisharpe

3TT3 said:


> Now youll be able to look forward to "normal" probs


 :lol:


----------



## Delta4

Hopefully it'll be drama free from this point.


----------



## TT Tom TT

philclemo said:


> Looks like you could be approaching the home straight Tom. Fingers crossed for you mate.


Hopefully! Cheers!



3TT3 said:


> Now youll be able to look forward to "normal" probs


Haha, not had too many of those - it's the big ones that like to say hello :x!



Delta4 said:


> Hopefully it'll be drama free from this point.


I hope so too but I'll never know with this car :-| :lol:!


----------



## TT Tom TT

chisharpe said:


> 3TT3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now youll be able to look forward to "normal" probs
> 
> 
> 
> :lol:
Click to expand...

 [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]


----------



## TT Tom TT

The above graph will allow me to re-cap on the issues that have arised and hopefully convey and explain to everyone what's been going on. Doing this in particular for those of you who have purchased or are going to purchase the AET-380 combo.

The above graph is showing 4 different runs, two of them were when I had the actuator over pre-loaded and two were when the waste-gate penny wasn't shut for any of the spool up (can you tell which is which :lol:?). Both of them were running on actuator pressure, may seem odd but I'll get onto that now...

Running off of actuator pressure to 1.5 bar and beyond was caused by me setting the actuator rod to the spec it should be but due to the actuator arm being bent, the only way to seal the wastegate penny was to over pre-load the actuator (which I didn't realise) at the time. The pre-load which was required to shut the penny was immense which is why on actuator pressure alone we were looking at 1.5 bar.

There was variation as can be seen, run 1 was 348bhp and run 2 which was made just after it then yielded 332bhp and as mentioned previously one of the runs was over 360bhp - this is why it was thought there was some problem regarding W/G or actuator. We know now this is likely because of my warped or as it was described 'stretched' actuator arm.

As I didn't know this was the problem I decided to give slackening the actuator off a few turns a shot to see if it would solve the issue but of course it didn't. All it did was cause the wastegate penny to no longer seat which resulted in the crap runs 3 & 4 which can be seen, runs 3 & 4 still again had variation between them so the problem is consistent apart from now the penny isn't seated.

Hopefully with the actuator arm now able to travel correctly the WG will operate as intended and the dyno graphs will be a lot more consistent each and every run now!


----------



## desertstorm

Glad to see you are making progress with this, looking forward to the end result as potentially this is on my list of turbo upgrades . And whatever I do it will be going to Unicorn to get mapped.
Rick seems to have diagnosed the issue correctly by the looks of it then. If you had been trying to map this without a dyno or a tuner who wasn't so up on the game you could well have had more issues .


----------



## jamman

FFS son take your tongue out of Rick's ass It must taste awful.

@Tom I sincerely hope this is the end of your troubles and the car goes like shit off a shovel


----------



## desertstorm

:lol: :lol:


----------



## chisharpe

just dont get it right and sell it.


----------



## Squadromeo

My goodness Tom, you've had a lot of bad luck with that turbo. I hope AET has tackled the problem and you finally get the results you're looking for!


----------



## badger5

TT Tom TT said:


> Just a quick reply, absolutely knackered and going to get to bed soon.
> 
> New problem with the car, it is thought my turbo is defective. Rick believes the wastegate penny is not sitting flush... Every dyno run produces a different curve... All I did by adjusting the actuator was do what you'd expect but the runs are still inconsistent. Everything else with the car is deemed all in very good nick.
> 
> I think I've been unlucky and been given a turbo with a dud waste-gate. If you guys go to page 5 or 6 of this thread you'll see a picture of the waste-gate. It looks like a very cheap one and not a quality part compared to others I have seen...
> 
> So it's time to depart Unicorn whenever I can get there to pick the car up and figure out what's going to happen from here. One thing's looking likely at this point though - turbo's coming back off and it's going back to AET :lol:...
> 
> There's always somethin'.
> 
> P.S. As I mentioned, 363bhp at 23PSI, Bill has his AET-380 @ 28 PSI and I'll go as far as it goes before it starts losing efficiency so hopefully there is definitely more power to come but sadly not any time soon.


the Actual lupos boost plot below for clarification.


----------



## TT Tom TT

badger5 said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just a quick reply, absolutely knackered and going to get to bed soon.
> 
> New problem with the car, it is thought my turbo is defective. Rick believes the wastegate penny is not sitting flush... Every dyno run produces a different curve... All I did by adjusting the actuator was do what you'd expect but the runs are still inconsistent. Everything else with the car is deemed all in very good nick.
> 
> I think I've been unlucky and been given a turbo with a dud waste-gate. If you guys go to page 5 or 6 of this thread you'll see a picture of the waste-gate. It looks like a very cheap one and not a quality part compared to others I have seen...
> 
> So it's time to depart Unicorn whenever I can get there to pick the car up and figure out what's going to happen from here. One thing's looking likely at this point though - turbo's coming back off and it's going back to AET :lol:...
> 
> There's always somethin'.
> 
> P.S. As I mentioned, 363bhp at 23PSI, Bill has his AET-380 @ 28 PSI and I'll go as far as it goes before it starts losing efficiency so hopefully there is definitely more power to come but sadly not any time soon.
> 
> 
> 
> the Actual lupos boost plot below for clarification.
Click to expand...

Ah, my bad. I've looked through that thread many times and thought it was 28 PSI not 25 PSI for some reason. No fiddling was done with the 363bhp @ 23 psi, was doing that off of the base map so timing wasn't optimal and off actuator pressure as mentioned due to the actuator arm having deformed :? . Timing wasn't changed from base-map pre-meth install so probably can be fiddled with a bit now due to lower temps.

I'll see what happens when it goes back but will certainly be hoping and likely expecting more, Rick & Mario seem to think there is a possibility of 400bhp or if not then close.


----------



## badger5

TT Tom TT said:


> badger5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just a quick reply, absolutely knackered and going to get to bed soon.
> 
> New problem with the car, it is thought my turbo is defective. Rick believes the wastegate penny is not sitting flush... Every dyno run produces a different curve... All I did by adjusting the actuator was do what you'd expect but the runs are still inconsistent. Everything else with the car is deemed all in very good nick.
> 
> I think I've been unlucky and been given a turbo with a dud waste-gate. If you guys go to page 5 or 6 of this thread you'll see a picture of the waste-gate. It looks like a very cheap one and not a quality part compared to others I have seen...
> 
> So it's time to depart Unicorn whenever I can get there to pick the car up and figure out what's going to happen from here. One thing's looking likely at this point though - turbo's coming back off and it's going back to AET :lol:...
> 
> There's always somethin'.
> 
> P.S. As I mentioned, 363bhp at 23PSI, Bill has his AET-380 @ 28 PSI and I'll go as far as it goes before it starts losing efficiency so hopefully there is definitely more power to come but sadly not any time soon.
> 
> 
> 
> the Actual lupos boost plot below for clarification.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, my bad. I've looked through that thread many times and thought it was 28 PSI not 25 PSI for some reason. No fiddling was done with the 363bhp @ 23 psi, was doing that off of the base map so timing wasn't optimal and off actuator pressure as mentioned due to the actuator arm having deformed :? . Timing wasn't changed from base-map pre-meth install so probably can be fiddled with a bit now due to lower temps.
> 
> I'll see what happens when it goes back but will certainly be hoping and likely expecting more, Rick & Mario seem to think there is a possibility of 400bhp or if not then close.
Click to expand...

400 will be an achievment.. if you get there.
The arms don't melt, impossible, but they could easily be bent if knocked. they are just steel plate at the end of the day. I did'nt see a picture in the thread when I looked at it briefly this morning (got sent a link to here as I dont frequent this forum) - I see I have been "copy and pasted" in this several times from messages asked of me directly..
363bhp from 23psi is a promising level.
heat and back pressure is the enemy.

I see a wide range of outcomes from hybrids (and bigger turbos) on these engines, as they're old cars now, with many being really quite worn. Bolting on new parts onto old engines is always subject to how healthy the base engine is.. Example. S3 we had a year or more ago, hybrid k04, max possible output we could get from it was 280bhp!.. Compression test and leakdown performed which revealed why.. 130psi compressions and large % cylinder leakage.. New engine built, no map change 355bhp. Same car. The engines the bit which produces the power, not just the bolted on bits.


----------



## TT Tom TT

badger5 said:


> 400 will be an achievment.. if you get there.
> The arms don't melt, impossible, but they could easily be bent if knocked. they are just steel plate at the end of the day. I did'nt see a picture in the thread when I looked at it briefly this morning (got sent a link to here as I dont frequent this forum) - I see I have been "copy and pasted" in this several times from messages asked of me directly..
> 363bhp from 23psi is a promising level.
> heat and back pressure is the enemy.
> 
> I see a wide range of outcomes from hybrids (and bigger turbos) on these engines, as they're old cars now, with many being really quite worn. Bolting on new parts onto old engines is always subject to how healthy the base engine is.. Example. S3 we had a year or more ago, hybrid k04, max possible output we could get from it was 280bhp!.. Compression test and leakdown performed which revealed why.. 130psi compressions and large % cylinder leakage.. New engine built, no map change 355bhp. Same car. The engines the bit which produces the power, not just the bolted on bits.


I would suggest your best bet is to speak to Matt at AET Bill, he theorised that excess heat had distorted the arm as that's what it appeared to be to him which is why he replaced it, cleaned up the turbo and welded on a new one with a beefier weld. He also replaced my wastegate as mentioned. I'm sure he can shed some light on the situation for you as I know this is half your product so need to know what the score is. He was more than amenable to talk to.

Engine wise should be all good, rifle-drilled H-beams, new big end bearings had new rings and cylinders cross-hatch honed with kerosene if I remember correctly. Ran in on Miller's specially formulated mineral engine oil for a few hundred miles with varying loads and increasing the revs as the miles went up, 2k max first 200, 3k max first 400 4k max for the rest and lots of engine braking.

Hopefully I'll be back here this time next month if not sooner to update with results, will also post them up in the Audi TT track page on Facebook so you'll likely see them there 8)... 400bhp is indeed the dream as unlike the Lupo I don't have a nice 3.5" down pipe which is probably one of the key advantages over my build.


----------



## chisharpe

Why didn't you go big turbo?


----------



## rocker tt.

The 64000 $ question :roll: [smiley=bigcry.gif] :roll:


----------



## Beunhaas

chisharpe said:


> Why didn't you go big turbo?


Custom tip, downpipe, chargepipes water oil lines. Basically a lot more custom fabrication to make everything fit.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Beunhaas said:


> chisharpe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why didn't you go big turbo?
> 
> 
> 
> Custom tip, downpipe, chargepipes water oil lines. Basically a lot more custom fabrication to make everything fit.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this ^

Massive void in knowledge at the time, wouldn't have known where to start and would still struggle now.

There are a few benefits of being hybrid to having BT too, better spool up by a few 100 rpm and if you don't work on your car then someone else will always be familiar with it because it's set up the same as any other K04 based 1.8T.

It was the right choice for me at the time without a doubt but there are a lot of benefits to BT's too.


----------



## TT Tom TT

UPDATE:

Car will be back together and having its MOT on the 8th, new track rod ends going on (mine were shot) and some Mk2 ball joints for a much needed front increase in negative camber. Toe will be being set back to parallel as I'm sure that'll end up miles out after the ball joint change.

As well as the turbo going back on there'll be some new engine oil and an oil filter for good measure as the turbo's been off 8).

Booked in for the 9th for mapping, keeping my fingers crossed that it goes without a hitch this time, if it does then I project I'll have the results for Saturday 11th November.

Let's see what happens ...


----------



## ady117

woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


----------



## Delta4

[smiley=drummer.gif] i would have used a fingers crossed emoji but there is'nt one


----------



## Jools TT

Good luck


----------



## BrianB

Hope all goes well


----------



## TT Tom TT

Thanks for the well-wishes all.

Stage 1 complete, car passed it's MOT with no advisories.

I've brought home and filled up the washer-fluid tank full with WMI ready for the trip.

All that's left is to get half a tank of fresh Momentum fuel in tomorrow and make sure tyres are fully inflated and it'll be dropped off at Stockport for 11AM tomorrow and then I'll have a waiting game...

Barring any further shenanigans, let the dyno lottery commence ...


----------



## Mcmtt

Good luck mate hope rick does his job properly!


----------



## TT Tom TT

Of course he will, he wants top figures as much as I do. Fingers crossed this time it will be plain sailing for him and I - hoping no long delays either via the wrong meth kit turning up etc as that's all fitted and bursting with fluid ready to go! Haha.


----------



## 3TT3

Youll soon be "racing",the rest is just waiting :wink:


----------



## TT Tom TT

Waiting about seeing if the car runs okay with no odd behaviour... Fingers crossed...


----------



## ady117

and....... how is it ? [smiley=bigcry.gif]


----------



## TT Tom TT

I hung about for a couple of hours waiting for the verdict. We are all good, turbo is fine only thing now is lambda sensor is faulty and on its way out. It's being replaced and the car should be finished by Saturday as projected, Pretty chuffed but not going to get ahead of myself until I see that dyno sheet!


----------



## ady117

well ... all good then, keep us posted.


----------



## desertstorm

At least Lambda sensor is an easy fix. I presume the values your sensor are putting out are not tallying with what Rick is seeing from his tailpipe sensor.


----------



## TT Tom TT

desertstorm said:


> At least Lambda sensor is an easy fix. I presume the values your sensor are putting out are not tallying with what Rick is seeing from his tailpipe sensor.


Yep think so, was relieved as I know it's only 5 minutes to swap it out for a shiny new Bosch one!

Took a video of it on the dyno too, was a bit quiet though - as you'll know that room does a good job of blocking out the sound.

https://streamable.com/3wecu


----------



## Delta4

Splendid


----------



## TT Tom TT

This is my lambda sensor:










Safe to say the exhaust lambda thread needs to be re-tapped before the new one is put in :lol:!


----------



## Delta4

I must say tom in the nicest possible way that i never want to meet you, you have bad luck written all over you if a piano fell from the sky and landed on some one they will be standing next to you the most jinxed man in the uk


----------



## philclemo

How has it passed it's MOT with a dud Lambda. I'm fretting over a faulty post cat sensor before I book mine in for it's MOT.


----------



## jamman

philclemo said:


> How has it passed it's MOT with a dud Lambda. I'm fretting over a faulty post cat sensor before I book mine in for it's MOT.


This


----------



## desertstorm

Lambda may work OK around lambda of 1 but these are wideband sensors and need to be accurate across the full range. Plus it's one thing working when EGT's are around 2-300 degrees against 900 degrees plus when the car is flat out on a dyno.
It does look very second hand.


----------



## Jay-225

TT Tom TT said:


> This is my lambda sensor:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Safe to say the exhaust lambda thread needs to be re-tapped before the new one is put in :lol:!


Who the hell is working on this car  utter incompetence ... putting a lambda in is pretty danm easy, must of used an air gun to do that up as it would of been very very easy to tell it was cross threading if putting it in by hand :roll: Was it the same person who put the fuel lines on wrong as well :?:

After all this shit i really do hope you get the figure you are after


----------



## TT Tom TT

philclemo said:


> How has it passed it's MOT with a dud Lambda. I'm fretting over a faulty post cat sensor before I book mine in for it's MOT.


The same way it passed with no CAT I imagine, likely wasn't checked because of this special MOT overlook feature.

Double edged sword springs to mind, oh well - at least it will be sorted whilst it's there! No biggy, they're just going to lean over the block, re-tap it and put in the new Bosch one.



Jay-225 said:


> Who the hell is working on this car  utter incompetence ... putting a lambda in is pretty danm easy, must of used an air gun to do that up as it would of been very very easy to tell it was cross threading if putting it in by hand :roll: Was it the same person who put the fuel lines on wrong as well :?:
> 
> After all this shit i really do hope you get the figure you are after


Yep same mechanic, my sensor is 95000 miles old so I would expect it to be a bit worse for wear but of course not completely cross-threaded! He is cheap though and TYPICALLY does a good job, only thing I can think is that the sensor has been this way for a long while and perhaps some of the damage is through my very 'vibratory' exhaust.

Any way, I'm not pissed - it's just one more little problem and to me a little problem with this car is nothing. It's all the big ones I've had that have caused me grief so I'm not too fussed, amazing the attitude you have after countless catastrophes :lol:

P.S. Thanks for the sympathy yet again Delta :lol:...


----------



## Jay-225

TT Tom TT said:


> philclemo said:
> 
> 
> 
> How has it passed it's MOT with a dud Lambda. I'm fretting over a faulty post cat sensor before I book mine in for it's MOT.
> 
> 
> 
> The same way it passed with no CAT I imagine, likely wasn't checked because of this special MOT overlook feature.
> 
> Double edged sword springs to mind, oh well - at least it will be sorted whilst it's there! No biggy, they're just going to lean over the block, re-tap it and put in the new Bosch one.
> 
> 
> 
> Jay-225 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who the hell is working on this car  utter incompetence ... putting a lambda in is pretty danm easy, must of used an air gun to do that up as it would of been very very easy to tell it was cross threading if putting it in by hand :roll: Was it the same person who put the fuel lines on wrong as well :?:
> 
> After all this shit i really do hope you get the figure you are after
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep same mechanic, my sensor is 95000 miles old so I would expect it to be a bit worse for wear but of course not completely cross-threaded! He is cheap though and TYPICALLY does a good job, only thing I can think is that the sensor has been this way for a long while and perhaps some of the damage is through my very 'vibratory' exhaust.
> 
> Any way, I'm not pissed - it's just one more little problem and to me a little problem with this car is nothing. It's all the big ones I've had that have caused me grief so I'm not too fussed, amazing the attitude you have after countless catastrophes :lol:
> 
> P.S. Thanks for the sympathy yet again Delta :lol:...
Click to expand...

Ok please STOP using this mechanic as he may be cheap :roll: but clearly has no idea what he is doing most of the time it seems and worries me that he has had your engine apart to fit the rods for you etc .. if you have changed the downpipe recently which you have if i remember right and that lambda came out of your original downpipe then it should of never been put into the new downpipe in that condition and this would fall down to the mechanic to check... i cant see that being the case though and has very likely been cross threaded when fitting it to the new downpipe taking out the threads in the process which makes me think was it sealing 100% :?: This wont of been caused by no vibrating exhaust 100% sure on that!

To sort this out i think downpipe would need to come off and have a new lambda bung welded on as cant see a tap sorting it but may get lucky depending on the state of metal whats left inside the current bung ...

I wish you the best of luck with this i really do Tom , it will end well for you eventually  
P.s . I think it would of been cheaper to drop the car off with Bill and got him to do the work all in one go , would of been sorted by now with one very happy Tom :lol:


----------



## 3TT3

The little dutch boy who saved Holland by putting his finger in a ****.
Seems like your having to use your whole hand


----------



## stevov

I remember asking about your fueling on the last turbo which never got an answer and now on the new turbo now it's a fueling issue. Why was this not checked on the last turbo.


----------



## jamman

Jay-225 said:


> P.s . I think it would of been cheaper to drop the car off with Bill and got him to do the work all in one go , would of been sorted by now with one very happy Tom :lol:


Isn't this the truth, your "mechanic" would have known about the problem and just thought fuck it.

I predict problems with anything he is involved with.


----------



## TT Tom TT

To be fair the down pipe was done about 18 months ago and it was done by National Tyres and Autocare so I can't blame my mechanic for this issue. I suspect it was them who would be guilty of this because as most of you know, it doesn't matter where you live, most Kwik Fit and National Tyres branches are only capable of fitting tyres, anything else and you're gambling...

Ive never once had a fault code regarding the lambda sensor and Rick didn't spot a problem with it both times it was on the dyno prior to the day so cannot have been too obvious given everything else that was going on.

The important part is that hopefully it will all be okay and it will remain that way but only time will tell for the reliability.

If the lambda sensor threaded hole CANNOT be re-tapped I do NOT want the down pipe to come out again! the sub-frame and turbo have only just got back on the car... If it can't be retapped could it be put into the hole and then welded in place? Anything to avoid taking it back from Stockport and shelling out yet more in labour...


----------



## 3TT3

I dont know if this wil make sense but:
For whatever reason Im getting v tired of reading about the progress/lack of and every prob imaginable towards the original goal.
Not as tired as you Im sure ..its just ,when the target is eventually realised, itll feel a bit anticlimactic (to me).
Yeh who cares.

There have been so many "false dawns" .
I do go on a bit in posts myself about " me and my TT" and you might rightly think "fu and the horse you rode in on" but just get it done already or ill be put off turbo changing for life!


----------



## TT Tom TT

3TT3 said:


> I dont know if this wil make sense but:
> For whatever reason Im getting v tired of reading about the progress/lack of and every prob imaginable towards the original goal.
> Not as tired as you Im sure ..its just ,when the target is eventually realised, itll feel a bit anticlimactic (to me).
> Yeh who cares.
> 
> There have been so many "false dawns" .
> I do go on a bit in posts myself about " me and my TT" and you might rightly think "fu and the horse you rode in on" but just get it done already or ill be put off turbo changing for life!


Yeah I get you, no offence taken. Hopefully the lambda sensor will re-tap okay and if so then results are less than 48 hours away... I've never read or watched Game of Thrones but this thread is literally the ultimate carrot dangling "the dragon's are coming thread" and I can certainly see why it can be perceived as a bit farcical by now [smiley=bigcry.gif]


----------



## Jay-225

Concerning the lambda, welding it in place really is a bit of a bodge job tbh . For one it will render the downpipe useless if the lambda every fails as it would then mean new downpipe, lambda and all the pissing about to get the thing fitted ( more ££££ just dropping out your wallet :? ) just sort the problem properly now rather than cutting corners as it will just lead to heart ache otherwise I suspect 

A new bung doesn't cost to much about a tenner but the downpipe will need to come off to fit it as the knackered one will need to be drilled or cut off and new one welded in pits place but doing that with the downpipe on the car would be a nightmare I would imagine so yes would really need to come off tbh.

This is kinda why I put the comment about going to bills as you would of suffered none of these problems and looks like it would of ended up being the CHEAPER option of the 2. Pretty sure with some sweet talking can gets his turbo package and rods fitted for around £3400 :wink: ..


----------



## TT Tom TT

Certainly see your point Jay, the inconvenience of how long everything has taken and the massive amount of inconvenience has certainly outweighed any possible, and by now, modest savings.

I have actually caught a lucky break for once, the down-pipe was tapped into okay and a new sensor was put in but it was throwing an error code (what a surprise) so they're ordering another one. It's customary to have bad fortune on the tail of good fortune I suppose :lol:...


----------



## Jay-225

TT Tom TT said:


> Certainly see your point Jay, the inconvenience of how long everything has taken and the massive amount of inconvenience has certainly outweighed any possible, and by now, modest savings.
> 
> I have actually caught a lucky break for once, the down-pipe was tapped into okay and a new sensor was put in but it was throwing an error code (what a surprise) so they're ordering another one. It's customary to have bad fortune on the tail of good fortune I suppose :lol:...


You got away lucky if that is the case...the new lambda is throwing a code ? Running lean or rich by any chance ? Suppose no harm in trying a new sensor if it's free


----------



## Delta4

For every dark cloud there is a... no wait it's tom bring another dark cloud  :lol: the end is near tom the end is near.


----------



## ady117

If i ever go down this route.. will book it in with Wak and leave it with him... it's a whole story of nobody giving a shit about about your build Tom, all getting away with it. They will all take your money and shrug off any possibility that anything "they" have done is anything other than "THE BEST" ... mapping your car with a boost leak ffs, would they pump up your tyres if you had nail's in them too... "oh you see we don't fix punctures just sell the air"..


----------



## ady117

TT Tom TT said:


> Certainly see your point Jay, the inconvenience of how long everything has taken and the massive amount of inconvenience has certainly outweighed any possible, and by now, modest savings.
> 
> I have actually caught a lucky break for once, the down-pipe was tapped into okay and a new sensor was put in but it was throwing an error code (what a surprise) so they're ordering another one. It's customary to have bad fortune on the tail of good fortune I suppose :lol:...


FFS .... take it somewhere else... sorry but, they should be all over stuff like this, have them on the shelf.. or send someone out to get one from TPS.. 10mins away... NOT ON THIS, feel for you TOM... run a tap down the thread to clear it, fit new sensor (as they know what they are doing) 30 mins.... oh we have a fault on the sensor... this is bull shit service.


----------



## rszemeti

"To be fair the down pipe was done about 18 months ago and it was done by National Tyres and Autocare" :lol: [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]

Seriously? You are trying to put together a bleeding edge performance engine, running exotic turbos, WMI and the like and you let the monkeys at National mess with the engine? They typically employ spotty 17yr olds, the entrance test involves being able to correctly identify "tyre" and "spanner" ... some of the applicants fail, but I suspect they still take them on.

You need to step up the spannerwork a notch or 3 ...


----------



## intott

Are we done yet?


----------



## TT Tom TT

Nope, sensor debacle caused an over-run. Not enough time given the sensor issues.


----------



## Beunhaas

Oh dear, here we go again.

10 pages further since last dyno session and still no results :?


----------



## jamman

Any news Tom ?


----------



## TT Tom TT

They're closed Sunday and Monday so I imagine it will be Wednesday / Thursday but this is on the assumption that there's no other mishaps between now and then, I'm not counting my chickens yet but struggling to think of what could go wrong so should be okay.


----------



## jamman

Any news Tom ?


----------



## TT Tom TT

jamman said:


> Any news Tom ?


Nothing to report, spoke to them about 30 mins ago. Last spoke on the 11th, car's still not done yet. Might be tomorrow, might not. If not they're closed Sunday, Monday so going to be a longgggg wait, I hope the results are worth the waiting. If I only have a 370bhp graph to post up here I will be very disappointed and I assume everyone else will too, especially those using the same turbo.


----------



## jamman

Isn't that a bit odd surely they want the car done and gone ?


----------



## TT Tom TT

My car over-ran it's allotted slot due to the lambda issue, so I think now they're squeezing it in as and when between bookings. I think that's why it may be taking a while.


----------



## Delta4

TT Tom TT said:


> My car over-ran it's allotted slot due to the lambda issue, so I think now they're squeezing it in as and when between bookings. I think that's why they are taking the piss.


A slight edit for ya. more time than not a easy going customer will be pushed to the back of the que, i maybe wrong but come on.


----------



## Jools TT

TT Tom TT said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any news Tom ?
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to report, spoke to them about 30 mins ago. Last spoke on the 11th, car's still not done yet. Might be tomorrow, might not. If not they're closed Sunday, Monday so going to be a longgggg wait, I hope the results are worth the waiting. If I only have a 370bhp graph to post up here I will be very disappointed and I assume everyone else will too, especially those using the same turbo.
Click to expand...

If mine sees 370bhp at badger i'll come away happy


----------



## TT Tom TT

Jools TT said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jamman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any news Tom ?
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to report, spoke to them about 30 mins ago. Last spoke on the 11th, car's still not done yet. Might be tomorrow, might not. If not they're closed Sunday, Monday so going to be a longgggg wait, I hope the results are worth the waiting. If I only have a 370bhp graph to post up here I will be very disappointed and I assume everyone else will too, especially those using the same turbo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If mine sees 370bhp at badger i'll come away happy
Click to expand...

I'm hoping the few extra bits and pieces I'll have done will illicit some gains...

83mm ID MAF custom made to 80mm ID to fit over the 80mm V2.2 TIP some-how... So airflow into the compressor is 80mm from start to end.

Exhaust manifold was ported by someone other than Bill, not sure whether or not mine is better but I know that Bill's manifold, are or at least WERE, knife-edged at the collector area. Knife-edging whilst allowing a small increase in volume over a conventional finish can cause turbulence and thus impede flow. Not bad-mouthing or anything but it's just one area I think I MAY have a small advantage

Also pick up 10-15bhp approx' with my choice of alloys over the stock RS4 13.5kg each wheels these cars tend to wear. 5.5kg per wheel is a hell of a lot of rotational unsprung weight loss provided by the OZ Superleggeras, which should turn into a nice power gain.

As I've stated numerous times, the dyno I'll be on is certainly not kind so I will also be testing it on another dyno after the result to see if this is true. If I mysteriously gain another 10-20bhp I guess I know for sure myself that Unicorn's dyno is indeed a hard one - or in reality, that DynoTune dyno's are more accurate as they should be. By contrast DynoDynamics make for very happy customers :lol:...


----------



## NickG

TT Tom TT said:


> Also pick up 10-15bhp approx' with my choice of alloys over the stock RS4 13.5kg each wheels these cars tend to wear. 5.5kg per wheel is a hell of a lot of rotational unsprung weight loss provided by the OZ Superleggeras, which should turn into a nice power gain.


 [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bomb.gif]


----------



## Matt B

NickG said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also pick up 10-15bhp approx' with my choice of alloys over the stock RS4 13.5kg each wheels these cars tend to wear. 5.5kg per wheel is a hell of a lot of rotational unsprung weight loss provided by the OZ Superleggeras, which should turn into a nice power gain.
> 
> 
> 
> [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bomb.gif]
Click to expand...

 :lol:


----------



## TT Tom TT

Matt B said:


> NickG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also pick up 10-15bhp approx' with my choice of alloys over the stock RS4 13.5kg each wheels these cars tend to wear. 5.5kg per wheel is a hell of a lot of rotational unsprung weight loss provided by the OZ Superleggeras, which should turn into a nice power gain.
> 
> 
> 
> [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bomb.gif]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> :lol:
Click to expand...

Had these alloys before and had bad experiences with cracking or something :lol:?


----------



## stevov

Unicorn use a Dyno Developments dyno iirc. Had never heard of them before and after looking on their website at things like "testimonials" I'll stick with the ones I've known and trusted for the past 15 years. Dastek, Dyno Dymamics and Mainline. Been fortunate over the years to have spent alot of time on dynos and they are a good tool in the right hands. The numbers are what they are on the day and handy for the pub. If your going to live and die by a dyno number you'll spend your life disappointed and frustrated as invariably the number changes from one day to the next on the same dyno. Would also say I would never leave a car to be mapped. Always stay with the car and talk to the mapper as he is working. It's your decision as to how far to push the map.


----------



## TT Tom TT

stevov said:


> Unicorn use a Dyno Developments dyno iirc. Had never heard of them before and after looking on their website at things like "testimonials" I'll stick with the ones I've known and trusted for the past 15 years. Dastek, Dyno Dymamics and Mainline. Been fortunate over the years to have spent alot of time on dynos and they are a good tool in the right hands. The numbers are what they are on the day and handy for the pub. If your going to live and die by a dyno number you'll spend your life disappointed and frustrated as invariably the number changes from one day to the next on the same dyno. Would also say I would never leave a car to be mapped. Always stay with the car and talk to the mapper as he is working. It's your decision as to how far to push the map.


Good advise as usual... All I know is the one Unicorn has is the one that people typically tend to moan and say their car made like 3-4% more last time it was dyno'd on a different one. I expect it's DynoDevelopments then that are more 'accurate' and DynoDynamics that are more 'ambitious'.

Staying with the car hasn't been an option, I dropped the car off on the 9th September.

I know dyno numbers aren't the be-all and end-all but as mentioned previously in this thread, I do like numbers and have a fascination with achieving 300bhp/tonne as to me it seems the milestone where performance really does become pretty mental in a car... I'm not going to be able to lose any more weight from the car without starting to affect the quality and pleasure of the drive (without becoming rather inventive) as well as making it obvious that it has been modified which is why I'm crossing my fingers to hit around the 395-400 mark, I know the number one priority should be how well it drives.


----------



## Gonzalo1495

Delta4 said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> My car over-ran it's allotted slot due to the lambda issue, so I think now they're squeezing it in as and when between bookings. I think that's why they are taking the piss.
> 
> 
> 
> A slight edit for ya. more time than not a easy going customer will be pushed to the back of the que, i maybe wrong but come on.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right! If you're laid back and don't emphasize the importance of having your car done on time, the shop will always prioritize other customers so they can make money while having your car still sitting there.


----------



## desertstorm

I think Rick knows how far to push the mapping and the hardware on this car. He knows what you want and hopefully you will get it. Any dyno of any make can give innacurate and greater readings if used inncorrectly. Simply strapping a car down incorrectly or differently will result in a lesser or greater result.
In the real world you won't be able to tell the difference between a 390 or 400bhp tune. Either will be a very fast car.
Rick is also pretty busy. He has a lot of people who want his services. Most of the time he is pretty much fully booked up with work so he is fitting your car in as and when he can.


----------



## jamman

Tom I'm going to refrain from my natural inclination to give it to you straight.

But

YOU NEED TO TELL THESE [email protected] TO FINISH YOUR CAR AND NO MORE SQUEEZING YOUR CAR IN AROUND OTHER CUSTOMERS.

Complete and utter bollocks you can't do a proper job like that.


----------



## Jools TT

would have pulled my car from Unicorn along time ago by now and made the journey to someone who gives a fuck tbh.
Not slating how good the guy is but he his taking the piss imo .
I sacked off my preferred tuner from day 1 who by the way has mapped all my cars for the past 10 years , due to the fact I didn't like the way the conversation was going " Never mapped one of these hybrids before, drop the car off and i'll squeeze it in where I can " ..........sounds familiar.
He done this with my last car a 335D and had it 3 months 

You also need to stop chasing numbers mate and just be happy with a good , safe tune that does what is says on the tin , there are too many things which effect the outcome , RR lottery .

I've had cars in the past that made less power than same spec cars but were quicker on the road/track .......... only difference was who mapped it


----------



## intott

It's not unicorns fault there was an issue with the turbo and they are a business with other paying waiting customers. They could have said we will book you back in in a months time but they didn't coz there trying to help out.


----------



## Jools TT

intott said:


> It's not unicorns fault there was an issue with the turbo and they are a business with other paying waiting customers. They could have said we will book you back in in a months time but they didn't coz there trying to help out.


Your absolutely 100% correct , but they should have told Tom to take the car away and rebook a slot when the car was healthy , the turbo hasn't been the only issue if I'm correct 
They are obviously very good at what they do and very busy , sometimes too busy to give a fuck about a car that's been back and forth with several issues and so happy to put it on the back burner .

I'm pretty sure Tom is a paying customer also and will receive a nice bill for all the pleasure he's endured so far

IMO unicorn haven't done themselves any favours in this instance by trying to be helpful as they have been made to look like they aren't bothered by Toms posts , His last few posts stated he was hopeful the car was getting done and once again it didn't .
.what started as a good build thread has become very frustrating and tiresome to read , God only knows how Toms feeling


----------



## stevov

Imho unicorn should have clocked the lambda sensor when the first turbo was "faulty". Could this have been related to the first turbo failing?Lean equals heat equals wastegate deformity?


----------



## desertstorm

The Lambda is like that because whoever fitted it cross threaded it or grossly overtightened it. Either could have damaged what was a good sensor and possibly would still have been if it had been fitted properly.
When a car has multiple issues it's not possible to spot all of them in one go. The wastegate issue appears to have been there from the start and as Bill said heat wasn't going to deform it, Rick is sensible with the EGT protection. There appears to be some kind of issue with the wastegates on these turbos other people have had failures.
Tom appears to be the victim of sloppy work by people who have built the car and component failures, none of which you could lay at Ricks door. If Rick is guilty of anything it's trying to accomodate the customer and fit him in to get the job done ASAP.
I am sure other tuners would probably have put you to the back of the queue and said to come back in several weeks when the car is sorted.


----------



## TT Tom TT

I was quoted £1200-£1400 for meth and map

I paid £700 after the first map and now I'm expected to pay this:










I had a few extra power runs and tuning time due to the turbo issue and then the lambda sensor issue but this now puts my total cost at £1865 and I'm told that they're basically doing me a favour and it SHOULD be more.

I budgeted that because of the lambda sensor and the labour it may be an extra £150 on top of the maximum £700. So I was expecting another bill of £850... This is certainly not what I want to see with my road tax due on the 1st of December and then Christmas on the horizon.

I've literally told them I cannot afford to collect the car because quite simply, I can't.


----------



## Madmax199

Going to that place has possibly been a mistake! This is insane, how do pay for software tuning twice when the initial one was incomplete?


----------



## ProjectMick

Do you have any correspondence with them regarding the scope of the original quote? Might be worth having a look through at what it includes as it seems like you are having to pay an extra £250.00 for what is basically a continuation of the first map?

It's a bit crap but sometimes things like this happen and it's not always entirely one party at fault.

I'd try and have a chat with them about it and get something over in writing to them just confirming anything you discussed. Just in case things drag on etc. Maybe they can meet you halfway on the extra cost depending on how the conversation goes.

Hope it gets sorted though.


----------



## ady117

Unicorn... what a joke.


----------



## Delta4

Putting aside the final wallet denting bill, are you going to tell us what power was finally achieved from this set up


----------



## intott

Hang on here.

You paid £700 initially for what? Just a remap with no wmi?

Break it down.

The wmi kit is what it is

To fit it - 350 is a lot but £50ph x 7 hours....ok

Lamba sensor tapping - does that include a new sensor?

250 For remapping their first map due to an idle issue - NO not on because this would have been identified even with a duff wg. Wg settings would have nowt to do with idle air flow unless I'm corrected. Now if this 250 is for additonal mapping with the wmi than ok fair point.

My first question is important here.


----------



## Mcmtt

whatever happens regarding how much your paying Tom I would def make sure to drive the car before handing over the money.


----------



## chisharpe

I feel sick for you mate


----------



## Beunhaas

That's a lot of money to go from 360 to 400 horses IF you made it at all. :?


----------



## stevov

As said, check it drives OK, pay the bill and sorn the car. Take the bus until you can afford to put the car on the road and then sell it because it will break down the line and sorry to be harsh but if this bill is a problem then you need to take a second look at the cost of affording a modified car. It ain't building them, it's driving and maintaining them. That said Unicorn have not done their reputation any favours. A very poor showing.


----------



## ProjectMick

intott said:


> Hang on here.
> 
> You paid £700 initially for what? Just a remap with no wmi?
> 
> Break it down.
> 
> My first question is important here.


Actually this is very true - have they invoiced for the £700.00 yet? What did it include?

Seems a lot for what looks like just mapping - or were there other items fitted/included in that?

trying not to form an opinion until I've seen a full breakdown of what the costs are for.


----------



## Jay-225

*£1865*    jesus i bet he is rubbing his hands together [smiley=bigcry.gif]

The meth kit is a tad expensive for the fitting but maybe he isnt to hot on stripping a TT to fit a meth kit so maybe took him a bit longer... for reference i paid about £650 for my Aem meth kit fitted by bill @ badger 5.

£170 for the lambda work is to be expected BUT at that price obviously includes a brand new sensor right ? :?

Mapping cost seem very expensive , ive had a few custom live maps on my cars over the years and going rate is around £400-£450 for the initial map then from £50-£80 for any adjustments that are needed at a later date but this is with everything going to plan when its mapping time ... How long was your car on the rolling road for on the 1st session, the whole day ? if so i can kind of see why the price has shot up 

Fuel cost are to be expected but its good practice to fill the car with fuel before a mapping session as they tend to use a lot :wink:

Also after all this what did the car make in the end


----------



## J4CKO

I am local to Stockport and was considering them, only hearing one side but it does seem a bit heavy handed so would be very wary, its a bit like getting the bill for private medical care.


----------



## ady117

I wouldn't go near them... only interested in easy work ie uploading maps... anything else is too much trouble.


----------



## J4CKO

ady117 said:


> I wouldn't go near them... only interested in easy work ie uploading maps... anything else is too much trouble.


They seem to want £350 to upload a map to a MK1 TT, surely there are cheaper options than that ?

Have paid more over the years but that was for newer cars that included a gadget to upload the map.


----------



## Jools TT

Jools TT said:


> I'm pretty sure Tom is a paying customer also and will receive a nice bill for all the pleasure he's endured so far
> 
> IMO unicorn haven't done themselves any favours in this instance by trying to be helpful as they have been made to look like they aren't bothered by Toms posts , His last few posts stated he was hopeful the car was getting done and once again it didn't .
> .what started as a good build thread has become very frustrating and tiresome to read , God only knows how Toms feeling


SAYING NOWT


----------



## Jools TT

Delta4 said:


> Putting aside the final wallet denting bill, are you going to tell us what power was finally achieved from this set up


Maybe they won't tell him until he pays the bill :roll:


----------



## BadNun

Poor Tom


----------



## desertstorm

If the original quote was 12-1400 for mapping and supply install of the water meth and you have paid 700 already.
The extra bill of £1160 brings the total to £1861. So around £500 more for all the extras.
That includes the supply and fitting of a new lambda sensor and a lot more mapping time / fault finding than was originally expected. I suspect that the car has probably been on and off the dyno several times .
I can tell you that a lot of people would have just loaded a map on and sent you on your way and made up some excuses. Rick isn't that kind of guy. He doesn't want you to drive off down the road with something that isn't right.
I am sure if you had taken it to Bills you may have got it done quicker as he is more set up to do all the mechanical work but whether it would have been much cheaper I am not sure. If it was at Bills he would have removed and replaced the turbo along with the other parts and that would all have cost money. 
I have had my A4 mapped twice with Rick with the standard turbo and a hybrid. And he has mapped the TT and I have never had an issue with any of his work. I recommend him frequently on ASN and to my knowledge nobody has ever had an issue with his work. You have been really unlucky with the issues you have had, which haven't been of Ricks making and he has had to work through these. It's not good and I hope you are happy with the way the car goes when you get it back.
Just have a look at the facebook site for some of the work he does. 
https://www.facebook.com/UnicornMotorDevelopments/


----------



## NickG

Sorry, I'm disagreeing with a lot of people here... he was quoted £1400 all in for the Meth and Tune.

He's paid £700 so far so best case scenario is he owes and should expect a bill of £700.

Then there's the sensor issue, to change, retap and install a new lambda I can't see that £170 is excessive.

He's then been charged £250 for the second mapping session... presumably with all the issues the car had, it's safe to assume Unicorn spent a lot more time diagnosing the issues and ran a lot more runs than a straight in straight out map because of that? £250 seems reasonable to me for this second session personally.

I'm really on the side of Unicorn regarding the bill, it's a business not a charity, through no fault of their own they have encountered variations from the original 'contracted' works and therefore should expect to be renumerated for their additional time. Too many people forget that the aim of running a business is to turn a profit... sounds to me like this has been just as much of a headache for them as it has for you Tom.

I'm not heartless, I feel for you and this extra bill sucks, but why should Unicorn have to make a loss through no fault of their own?


----------



## NickG

desertstorm said:


> If the original quote was 12-1400 for mapping and supply install of the water meth and you have paid 700 already.
> The extra bill of £1160 brings the total to £1861. So around £500 more for all the extras.
> That includes the supply and fitting of a new lambda sensor and a lot more mapping time / fault finding than was originally expected. I suspect that the car has probably been on and off the dyno several times .
> I can tell you that a lot of people would have just loaded a map on and sent you on your way and made up some excuses. Rick isn't that kind of guy. He doesn't want you to drive off down the road with something that isn't right.
> I am sure if you had taken it to Bills you may have got it done quicker as he is more set up to do all the mechanical work but whether it would have been much cheaper I am not sure. If it was at Bills he would have removed and replaced the turbo along with the other parts and that would all have cost money.
> I have had my A4 mapped twice with Rick with the standard turbo and a hybrid. And he has mapped the TT and I have never had an issue with any of his work. I recommend him frequently on ASN and to my knowledge nobody has ever had an issue with his work. You have been really unlucky with the issues you have had, which haven't been of Ricks making and he has had to work through these. It's not good and I hope you are happy with the way the car goes when you get it back.


Ahh thank god it isn't just me staying firmly away from the pitchfork and burning flares :roll:


----------



## desertstorm

J4CKO said:


> ady117 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't go near them... only interested in easy work ie uploading maps... anything else is too much trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> They seem to want £350 to upload a map to a MK1 TT, surely there are cheaper options than that ?
> Have paid more over the years but that was for newer cars that included a gadget to upload the map.
Click to expand...

Of course there are cheaper options. Any car that goes there spends time on the rollers . The mapping is as good as you can get. There are plenty of other people out there that will charge you £200 and put a generic 250bhp map on the car. 
And most people would be happier with the faster car. 
A stage 1 map at Ricks is £300
I paid £350 for mine as it has the TIP, FMIC, 4 bar pressure regulator, 3 inch decat downpipe and Rick removed the fault codes associated with the Fuel canister, and the rear lambda sensor. The car was also mapped with launch control.
It spent a few hours on the rollers being tweaked with several different maps. The brief was get as much out of it, keep it reliable and make it rod friendly ,don't go over 300Lb/ft of torque. And he did that.

Just because a car is older and not worth as much doesn't necessarily mean that working on them should be any cheaper. 
Take the car to an Audi dealer and they will still charge you the same labor rate as for a new car. 
How much do Revo, AMD etc charge to map a TT.


----------



## Jay-225

The only part of it that seems steep to me is the mapping cost , out of that £1865 we can take away £895 for the meth and lambda issues leaving a mapping bill of £950 ( +£20 fuel) , having a look on the website it says from £600 for a stage 3 map which i take it this is but a bill of £950 suggest it spent a lot more time on the rollers than it should have hence i asked was on the rollers the whole day? was it ever discussed with Tom that there would be an extra charge of £350 on top of the £600 it should have possibly been so he maybe wouldn't of had such a big shock when handed the bill ..

Personally i think the £600 for stage 3 map is on the high side tbh and would of had me looking elsewhere but thats just me :lol:


----------



## ProjectMick

I get a lot of what you guys are saying, however if Tom has been given a fixed price/quote for the mapping and meth install, then he shouldn't really expect to have any additional money for mapping IMO.

The price was (I assume) for the job of meth install and mapping. If it is then any unforeseen issues are ultimately Unicorns - unless they made Tom aware that any faults found will be chargeable before the work commenced.

The other items sure - if they weren't on the original quote then absolutely they will (and should) be extra.

If it were my business I would just waive the £250.00 - especially as I had fitted the additional work in around other customer cars, meaning Tom had to wait. That is where I feel they are being a little cheeky.

I imagine they will still have made some sort of profit either way, and crucially they won't have people potentially looking elsewhere (as someone has already mentioned on another thread).

Never mind - as I said before hopefully it all gets resolved.


----------



## 3TT3

TT Tom TT said:


> I was quoted £1200-£1400 for meth and map
> 
> I paid £700 after the first map and now I'm expected to pay this:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a few extra power runs and tuning time due to the turbo issue and then the lambda sensor issue but this now puts my total cost at £1865 and I'm told that they're basically doing me a favour and it SHOULD be more.
> 
> I budgeted that because of the lambda sensor and the labour it may be an extra £150 on top of the maximum £700. So I was expecting another bill of £850... This is certainly not what I want to see with my road tax due on the 1st of December and then Christmas on the horizon.
> 
> I've literally told them I cannot afford to collect the car because quite simply, I can't.


As intott pointed out there is a certain ambiguity about the figures.
The wmi kit was fairly expensive in the first place (when it eventually arrived. maybe Marie/whoever is in the pic in the office had some x ordering issues and she just bills according to info shes given)and its not a £350 fitting job unless it was fitting and mapping! thats clutch replacement money.

However like above theres no indication of what the first £700 was for.
Lets break it down another way..you say you were expecting up to £1400 quid at most without turbo and lambda probs.

An expectation.. of £150 for lambda sensor so it was 170 add in another 20 for fuel. say 200 then the other 250 as above for time spent mapping and dynoing ..when it couldnt be mapped properly.
Thats like agreeing with the above posts   still it wasnt what was quoted... My own mech usually bills to the very low end of his quote,good plan.Then again the turbo not right wasnt Ricks fault(I think..or did he fit it,I forget)
Having said that, I wouldnt go anywhere close to Ricks place..might be a business but its far too close to main dealers modus for me.
Someplace like Wak's coffee bar  would be more my style.Like I know/have read on here that he does wmi installs..with the client working too of course ! and checks stuff out and will know fairly fast what can be done n cant.
How does he stay going..well he operates sans Marie and the staff cmas party for one thing


----------



## TT Tom TT

I had a good 45 minute to an hour conversation with Rick and he's put about 30-40 hours into mapping the car so I guess as a grand sum it seems a HELL OF A LOT of money but as everyone has broke it down above it's not actually as bad as it seems.

It's yet more expense but equally it wasn't unwarranted or exaggerated. He also had to make my car run MAFless as flow was too turbulent when getting a reading.

I asked if I could remove the sensor and blank it off for increased flow but he said my 630cc Bosch EV14's are basically maxed out so wouldn't advise any more airflow at all. He surprisingly said the turbo STILL had more boost left in it but again can't be utilised as the injectors maxed out.

The turbo was taken to 30psi and that's what it peaks at on the meth, he said throughout all these dyno hours the car's engine has been brilliant, hasn't missed a beat, not a single mis-fire etc so that seems all good and is definitely a good point...

Now onto the actual results etc and a small amount of story in the next post...


----------



## NickG

Sorry but no, I'd be confident that any mappers cost will be for a drive in drive out map with no car issues... why would any sane person think that it's correct for a business to do more work for the same money?

No mappers I know of would!

Where does the line get drawn otherwise?!

Wak found a failing MAF and fuel pump on my car after a day of tuning, I returned a few weeks later and paid the additional 3-4 hours it took to finish the tune. Completely fair and reasonable, it wasn't his fault the car wasn't playing ball!

Don't expect the same bill for extra work, it's a really simple concept. I'm basing this arguement purely on the basis Unicorn didn't word the quotation as "no charge will be made for additional mapping time due to incompetence by others!"

As for the cost regarding WMI Toms been charged what he's agreed to, you have absolutely zero rights to take a service at an agreed price and then contest the agreed cost after the event... this isn't the construction industry folks :lol:


----------



## NickG

TT Tom TT said:


> I had a good 45 minute to an hour conversation with Rick and he's put about 30-40 hours into mapping the car so I guess as a grand sum it seems a HELL OF A LOT of money but as everyone has broke it down above it's not actually as bad as it seems.
> 
> It's yet more expense but equally it wasn't unwarranted or exaggerated. He also had to make my car run MAFless as flow was too turbulent when getting a reading.
> 
> I asked if I could remove the sensor and blank it off for increased flow but he said my 630cc Bosch EV14's are basically maxed out so wouldn't advise any more airflow at all. He surprisingly said the turbo STILL had more boost left in it but again can't be utilised as the injectors maxed out.
> 
> The turbo was taken to 30psi and that's what it peaks at on the meth, he said throughout all these dyno hours the car's engine has been brilliant, hasn't missed a beat, not a single mis-fire etc so that seems all good and is definitely a good point...
> 
> Now onto the actual results etc and a small amount of story in the next post...


In that case mate, you really can't grumble, in the scheme of things it sounds like Rick has probably lost money on tuning this car.

Get the results up!


----------



## NickG

3TT3 said:


> Someplace like Wak's coffee bar  would be more my style.Like I know/have read on here that he does wmi installs..with the client working too of course ! and checks stuff out and will know fairly fast what can be done n cant.
> How does he stay going..well he operates sans Marie and the staff cmas party for one thing


As above, Wak charged me for a second 'half' session due to a failing fuel pump and MAF found in the first session... and rightly so!! It wasn't his fault the pump was slowly dying!


----------



## Jay-225

If he has spent 30-40 hours with the car on the rollers ( i was thinking a day not a week :lol: !!! ) then in that case yes you actually got a bargain and got away lucky by the sounds of it  30psi sounds interesting , get the result and graphs up


----------



## TT Tom TT

So whilst I was waiting in the waiting room doing just that, a fella' sharing the couch had his 335d in being done, apparently his car did 405bhp at RSR over towards Liverpool. The 335d in question was a stage 2 and only made 365bhp on the dyno, which reminded me of how accurate this dyno is and happy other's tend to be... I was hoping for no less than 370bhp with this in mind and 400bhp didn't even enter my head given the result of the beastly 620 ft/lb 365hp 335d that was just in...

Well, Rick dragged me up had me in suspense for a good 5 minutes before actually outing the result and it's safe to say I was very surprised:










The build (results wise) has definitely been a success.

It was worth persevering with and I couldn't have done it without help along the way from many, many people on here. Thank you to everyone who wished me well throughout all the annoyance and set backs because it's finally done!

How does it drive though? Well no idea, it's absolutely been slamming down near Manchester and I didn't fancy pushing my luck in the wet for the first time. I'll wait until it's dry (hopefully tomorrow) .


----------



## 3TT3

:lol: 
I guess you will be picking up the car afterall then ?


----------



## Jay-225

TT Tom TT said:


> So whilst I was waiting in the waiting room doing just that, a fella' sharing the couch had his 335d in being done, apparently his car did 405bhp at RSR over towards Liverpool. The 335d in question was a stage 2 and only made 365bhp on the dyno, which reminded me of how accurate this dyno is and happy other's tend to be... I was hoping for no less than 370bhp with this in mind and 400bhp didn't even enter my head given the result of the beastly 620 ft/lb 365hp 335d that was just in...
> 
> Well, Rick dragged me up had me in suspense for a good 5 minutes before actually outing the result and it's safe to say I was very surprised:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The build (results wise) has definitely been a success.
> 
> It was worth persevering with and I couldn't have done it without help along the way from many, many people on here. Thank you to everyone who wished me well throughout all the annoyance and set backs because it's finally done!
> 
> How does it drive though? Well no idea, it's absolutely been slamming down near Manchester and I didn't fancy pushing my luck in the wet for the first time. I'll wait until it's dry (hopefully tomorrow) .


Well done fella  , I personally didn't think you would achieve it but your persistence has certainly paid off, well done and enjoy the car now 8)


----------



## J4CKO

Over 400 bhp, that must be a rapid TT.


----------



## NickG

Great result!! You have to be chuffed with that! (Hand the money for your bill over and don't look back IMO!!)


----------



## desertstorm

Great result, I was expecting 385-395bhp bearing in mind the other bits Bills Lupo has on it. I am sure it will drive really well. I wonder how much the guy with the BMW had paid to get his car mapped somewhere else but still comes to Ricks to get it done properly.
Standing by to get flamed by Jamman  .


----------



## TT Tom TT

Jay-225 said:


> Well done fella  , I personally didn't think you would achieve it but your persistence has certainly paid off, well done and enjoy the car now 8)


Thank you Jay 



J4CKO said:


> Over 400 bhp, that must be a rapid TT.


I hope so!



NickG said:


> Great result!! You have to be chuffed with that! (Hand the money for your bill over and don't look back IMO!!)


Yep couldn't agree more, time to write off the finances because the long list of constant expense stops now!


----------



## TT Tom TT

desertstorm said:


> Great result, I was expecting 385-395bhp bearing in mind the other bits Bills Lupo has on it. I am sure it will drive really well. I wonder how much the guy with the BMW had paid to get his car mapped somewhere else but still comes to Ricks to get it done properly.
> Standing by to get flamed by Jamman  .


Yeah me too, I would have been happy with 38x on Rick's accurate dyno!

It's worth noting as well that the car wasn't spun up all the way to 7500rpm (power increases all the way to this point) as the injectors did reach 100% duty cycle by about 7300rpm so it was limited to 7100ish rpm for this reason.

It's mad to think that with larger injectors boost could be upped further and maybe 410bhp would be doable at 7.5K... Not that I'm going to be going there, 400bhp was my target and I'm thrilled to achieve it on the dyno of dream-dashing


----------



## Jools TT

Glad to see it all worked out in the end


----------



## ProjectMick

Great result - just goes to show that taking the time and effort to do all the extra little things with the engine and breathing allows the mapper to do their thing better.

Surprised about the injectors but at least you got to where you wanted to power wise. Let's just hope the power delivery is the way you want it and the engine holds up!


----------



## Delta4

You got there in the end, next chapter enjoy it


----------



## jamman

Fingers crossed you face no more problems, enjoy the car mate 

Bill was fine IMHO although there's NO WAY they spent 30-40 hours tuning lol

Stop banging on about the bloody rolling road being tight they probably altered the coast down figures to keep you happy ;-)


----------



## Gonzalo1495

ProjectMick said:


> I get a lot of what you guys are saying, however if Tom has been given a fixed price/quote for the mapping and meth install, then he shouldn't really expect to have any additional money for mapping IMO.


This isn't how the real world works at all. There is no "fixed" price when repairing or working on a car. It can go up and down at any moment depending the condition of the car. It's not like Tom was bringing him a 2018 Audi TT that had 500 miles on it and not a single problem. These things happen, you should always budget accordingly especially when modifying a car, let alone an old one.

None the less, I'm very happy for you Tom, that is a great amount of power and the power band looks very enjoyable! Can't wait for some videos of you driving it. Congrats friend. It was definitely worth it in the end, kudos for sticking through the hard times.


----------



## BadNun

I am over the moon for you Tom. You had a goal and went for it. You put up with set-backs and woes, like a true trooper you got what you wanted in the end. You're a lovely fella too and always give out help and advice (some of it good  ) i hope you enjoy your "sleeper" and you have no further trouble.

Enjoy it.


----------



## badger5

TT Tom TT said:


> desertstorm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great result, I was expecting 385-395bhp bearing in mind the other bits Bills Lupo has on it. I am sure it will drive really well. I wonder how much the guy with the BMW had paid to get his car mapped somewhere else but still comes to Ricks to get it done properly.
> Standing by to get flamed by Jamman  .
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah me too, I would have been happy with 38x on Rick's accurate dyno!
> 
> It's worth noting as well that the car wasn't spun up all the way to 7500rpm (power increases all the way to this point) as the injectors did reach 100% duty cycle by about 7300rpm so it was limited to 7100ish rpm for this reason.
> 
> It's mad to think that with larger injectors boost could be upped further and maybe 410bhp would be doable at 7.5K... Not that I'm going to be going there, 400bhp was my target and I'm thrilled to achieve it on the dyno of dream-dashing
Click to expand...

630cc dont max out at 400bhp... I wonder if your fuel pressure was dropping under load so ecu compensating more %

nice end result for you tho. good power
our lupo has a rival.. lol
pop in if down glos way and I will do a free dyno run for you to compare.

non std maf housing? you had one of those billet no screen things on there?


----------



## Gtturbo

desertstorm said:


> Take the car to an Audi dealer and they will still charge you the same labor rate as for a new car.


Audi's over a certain age get lower labour rates at main dealers


----------



## Jay-225

badger5 said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> desertstorm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great result, I was expecting 385-395bhp bearing in mind the other bits Bills Lupo has on it. I am sure it will drive really well. I wonder how much the guy with the BMW had paid to get his car mapped somewhere else but still comes to Ricks to get it done properly.
> Standing by to get flamed by Jamman  .
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah me too, I would have been happy with 38x on Rick's accurate dyno!
> 
> It's worth noting as well that the car wasn't spun up all the way to 7500rpm (power increases all the way to this point) as the injectors did reach 100% duty cycle by about 7300rpm so it was limited to 7100ish rpm for this reason.
> 
> It's mad to think that with larger injectors boost could be upped further and maybe 410bhp would be doable at 7.5K... Not that I'm going to be going there, 400bhp was my target and I'm thrilled to achieve it on the dyno of dream-dashing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *630cc dont max out at 400bhp... I wonder if your fuel pressure was dropping under load so ecu compensating more %*
> 
> nice end result for you tho. good power
> our lupo has a rival.. lol
> pop in if down glos way and I will do a free dyno run for you to compare.
> 
> non std maf housing? you had one of those billet no screen things on there?
Click to expand...

I did think this as well but just assumed he was on 550cc injectors as they are Bosch but after checking can see they are actually 630cc so yep shouldn't be maxed at 400bhp... Tom i see you are running that HFP-A36HV 265 LPH fuel pump which is probably the reason you are hitting max duty cycle ( duff/weak/fucked pump ) , had the same happen on mine when running this pump but at a lot less power .. 290bhp , 630cc, A36hv duty cycles were at 100% and worse :roll: replaced with a DW65v and duty cycle dropped to 55% and has remained that way since  That A36HV will probably get worse on yours as its getting pushed to its limits it seems ... get it changed or risk running lean [smiley=bigcry.gif]


----------



## TT Tom TT

badger5 said:


> 630cc dont max out at 400bhp... I wonder if your fuel pressure was dropping under load so ecu compensating more %
> 
> nice end result for you tho. good power
> our lupo has a rival.. lol
> pop in if down glos way and I will do a free dyno run for you to compare.
> 
> non std maf housing? you had one of those billet no screen things on there?


Hmmm, as you and Jay have said, could be my pump which is a bit worrying and something to keep an eye on. If I drop in a new DW65V will the ECU adapt etc or will I need my car mapped again to adjust fuelling?

Thank you for the congrats ... I'd be very interested in a dyno run if I'm ever close-by.

I used an RS4 MAF which is like 83MM ID. I had to have the tubes broken off and then some new bespoke one's bonded in which were 80MM ID (wanted to match the tip) and about 83MM OD, it was NOT easy getting it over the TIP but managed it eventually.

There was no screen though and as a result the MAF readings were sporadic and as a result Rick had to actually MAFless tune my car.


----------



## infidel.uk

Good result, will be good to see what you have to say over the coming weeks


----------



## ProjectMick

Gonzalo1495 said:


> This isn't how the real world works at all. There is no "fixed" price when repairing or working on a car. It can go up and down at any moment depending the condition of the car. It's not like Tom was bringing him a 2018 Audi TT that had 500 miles on it and not a single problem. These things happen, you should always budget accordingly especially when modifying a car, let alone an old one.


To be honest Gonz I totally agree - however my point was that if there are to be additional costs, these need to be made clear before the work is carried out. I was just asking of they were or not - it seemed that the additional bill was a surprise, which is not on if that was the case.

For example if I have a job for a client at a fixed price and then there are outside variables that will impact that price (which fall outside of the already agreed scope of works) I will make sure that they are informed and agree to it before any additional work is done. If I just go ahead and do it without telling the customer of the additional costs involved I'm setting myself up for an argument/issue. Hopefully that makes sense - I'm not against a company charging extra, just so long as the client has agreed beforehand.

The main thing is that the car seems to be at the desired power level. Probably a few more gremlins to sort out but progress is progress! Good on you Tom for your perseverance and willingness to get it to where it is given all the crap you have been through!!!


----------



## ProjectMick

By the way, I agree on the injectors - maybe have a look at your pump as you should still have some headroom on 630s

Really good result no matter what the dyno says to be honest - if it drives ok and you are in the area that you want to be power wise just enjoy it.


----------



## intott

Well done! Pisses all over my power and torque curve


----------



## desertstorm

Hi Tom noticed you have changed the thread title to finally done. I can already see you are sizing up a fuel pump change so there goes another £230 . 
I wouldn't be surprised if Rick has left a bit of a margin on the injectors. I don't know what 630cc injectors could potentially do but you don't want them 100% maxed out as there is no safety margin. If the ECU sees excessive EGT temps it will add fuel, If the injectors are maxed out that isn't an option. If the WMI stops EGT's will probably climb very quickly.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Yep, the cost of the DW pump which I'll need next doesn't bear thinking about, that'll have to come next year!

Thanks for all the kind words again from everyone over the last 24 hours.

I managed to get to the weigh-bridge today, I didn't have my card on me and they wanted £10 for the weigh-bridge slip. Car was 1330kg so I've officially made the 300bhp/tonne mark in the form of *301.7bhp/tonne* . Once again, very happy!

There's some serious machinery that this car is now capable of keeping up with:


----------



## Allspeed

And what's it go like!!!!!


----------



## Jools TT

TT Tom TT said:


> Yep, the cost of the DW pump which I'll need next doesn't bear thinking about, that'll have to come next year!
> 
> Thanks for all the kind words again from everyone over the last 24 hours.
> 
> I managed to get to the weigh-bridge today, I didn't have my card on me and they wanted £10 for the weigh-bridge slip. Car was 1330kg so I've officially made the 300bhp/tonne mark in the form of *301.7bhp/tonne* . Once again, very happy!
> 
> There's some serious machinery that this car is now capable of keeping up with:


And then theres the variables of Torque , gearing and aerodynamics but we get the picture 

Hadn't realized its taken you 2 years to get to this point in time , hats off to you for your patience .
WELL DONE....................so far :lol:


----------



## Mcmtt

Who cares! What's it drive like? Power delivery etc must be a total beast!!!


----------



## NickG

TT Tom TT said:


> Yep, the cost of the DW pump which I'll need next doesn't bear thinking about, that'll have to come next year!
> 
> Thanks for all the kind words again from everyone over the last 24 hours.
> 
> I managed to get to the weigh-bridge today, I didn't have my card on me and they wanted £10 for the weigh-bridge slip. Car was 1330kg so I've officially made the 300bhp/tonne mark in the form of *301.7bhp/tonne* . Once again, very happy!
> 
> There's some serious machinery that this car is now capable of keeping up with *In a straight line, provided i buy decent tyres*:


Corrected for banter :lol:


----------



## 3TT3

Some youtube upload or similar would be nice.
Something like open road,noise in the distance ,dot on the horizon then whoosh past  , eventually.
Pump
Where I got mine https://www.fuelperformance.co.uk/index ... earch=dw65
Fitting isnt too bad aside from the fumes .In the overall costs list its not that much but I suppose your bank account needs some respite .


----------



## Jay-225

TT Tom TT said:


> Yep, the cost of the DW pump which I'll need next doesn't bear thinking about, that'll have to come next year!
> 
> Thanks for all the kind words again from everyone over the last 24 hours.
> 
> I managed to get to the weigh-bridge today, I didn't have my card on me and they wanted £10 for the weigh-bridge slip. Car was 1330kg so I've officially made the 300bhp/tonne mark in the form of *301.7bhp/tonne* . Once again, very happy!
> 
> There's some serious machinery that this car is now capable of keeping up with:


And in the real world nearly all of them cars would wave bye bye to you on a track , its not just about POWER Tom.... i mean come on if you think you will be pulling away from a GT3 RS you are somewhat deluded :lol:

What you need to do is take the car to santa pod and lay down a brilliant qtr mile run , then maybe go to the ring and put the car round in under 8 mins etc :wink:

As Nick said also some decent tyres ... what are you running ? Please dont say budgets :roll:


----------



## badger5

desertstorm said:


> Hi Tom noticed you have changed the thread title to finally done. I can already see you are sizing up a fuel pump change so there goes another £230 .
> I wouldn't be surprised if Rick has left a bit of a margin on the injectors. I don't know what 630cc injectors could potentially do but you don't want them 100% maxed out as there is no safety margin. If the ECU sees excessive EGT temps it will add fuel, If the injectors are maxed out that isn't an option. If the WMI stops EGT's will probably climb very quickly.


we have run them to 460bhp into the 90% IDC region on 3bar..
400bhp is well shy of maxing a duty cycle presuming pumps keeping up.. hence suggesting it earlier


----------



## badger5

TT Tom TT said:


> badger5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 630cc dont max out at 400bhp... I wonder if your fuel pressure was dropping under load so ecu compensating more %
> 
> nice end result for you tho. good power
> our lupo has a rival.. lol
> pop in if down glos way and I will do a free dyno run for you to compare.
> 
> non std maf housing? you had one of those billet no screen things on there?
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, as you and Jay have said, could be my pump which is a bit worrying and something to keep an eye on. If I drop in a new DW65V will the ECU adapt etc or will I need my car mapped again to adjust fuelling?
> 
> Thank you for the congrats ... I'd be very interested in a dyno run if I'm ever close-by.
> 
> I used an RS4 MAF which is like 83MM ID. I had to have the tubes broken off and then some new bespoke one's bonded in which were 80MM ID (wanted to match the tip) and about 83MM OD, it was NOT easy getting it over the TIP but managed it eventually.
> 
> There was no screen though and as a result the MAF readings were sporadic and as a result Rick had to actually MAFless tune my car.
Click to expand...

Our lupo on our 80mm TIP, std 80mm MAF housing.. as a comparison.
No airflow drama's.
big maf housings, proximity to DV vents on small engine... end up being messy airflow. Smaller (std) in this instance is the better choice.

30psi boost tho.... Dayum!
fingers crossed


----------



## BadNun

I have not read anything about stripes :?

Everybody knows that go faster stripes are good for....maybe 50 or or 80bhp

You could be 481.2bhp with stripes.


----------



## Squadromeo

You finally got there! Congratulations.

And a nice graph it is. Must be great to have all that torque available. :lol:


----------



## infidel.uk

I need to keep saving ! toms TT has given me some incentive


----------



## desertstorm

Just ordered a new fuel pump for mine Tom. A little cheaper than normal prices. £197 delivered.

PartBox are the UK importers for Deatschwerks apparently.

https://www.part-box.com/pumps/9-655-10 ... r6-Quattro


----------



## hang your idols

Jay-225 said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, the cost of the DW pump which I'll need next doesn't bear thinking about, that'll have to come next year!
> 
> Thanks for all the kind words again from everyone over the last 24 hours.
> 
> I managed to get to the weigh-bridge today, I didn't have my card on me and they wanted £10 for the weigh-bridge slip. Car was 1330kg so I've officially made the 300bhp/tonne mark in the form of *301.7bhp/tonne* . Once again, very happy!
> 
> There's some serious machinery that this car is now capable of keeping up with:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And in the real world nearly all of them cars would wave bye bye to you on a track , its not just about POWER Tom.... i mean come on if you think you will be pulling away from a GT3 RS you are somewhat deluded :lol:
> 
> What you need to do is take the car to santa pod and lay down a brilliant qtr mile run , then maybe go to the ring and put the car round in under 8 mins etc :wink:
> 
> As Nick said also some decent tyres ... what are you running ? Please dont say budgets :roll:
Click to expand...

+1 Some posts are so childish :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## TT Tom TT

Car drives well, seems very quick! Surprisingly torquey which I was not expecting (before I saw the results graph) and when you plant your foot the car feels very, very stable and capable - almost as if it were designed for the power. The delivery is quite impressive, gives you a small amount of crushing sensation right in the sternum which is nice. Certainly not as fast as the GSX-R 750 that came before it but the sensations are completely different.

Jay, I think the TT would take the M6 (for example) around a track, just because a new M6 is £100,000 doesn't mean it will beat a comparatively inexpensive TT. I think a 160bhp 600kg Caterham could probably toast an M6 around a small tight track. The 2017 M6 weighs over 2 tonnes remember.

Don't get me wrong, the Porsche, Dodge Viper, Evora, Ferrari Modena etc those kind of things would of course destroy the car being cars that were designed as a more track orientated / focused car and have a more comparable or lighter kerb weight, but a bargey BMW M6, Aston Martin or the Mercedes AMG? I think it'd hold its own!

The comparison was merely a bit of fun but similar 1/4 mile times to the cars listed should be expected .


----------



## Matt B

I'm less than half an hour away if you want to see how it goes against a 400bhp TTRS


----------



## Jools TT

Matt B said:


> I'm less than half an hour away if you want to see how it goes against a 400bhp TTRS


There's an offer you cant refuse Tom , 400bhp v 400bhp only difference being 100 odd kilo .manual v dsg and who's got the biggest balls 
Gauntlet is laid


----------



## ady117

Ha some dick waving .... My mate has a ford RS focus (£20k plus) said he would beat me round a track ... "mate" I said.. "you car will be quicker on the straights, but you wont dare give it the beans in the corners your car is worth too much money"... i will put the TT on its roof before he beats me... now that guy with the TTrs... I will race you Oulton wet or dry for V5's over 5 laps ...


----------



## Jay-225

TT Tom TT said:


> Car drives well, seems very quick! Surprisingly torquey which I was not expecting (before I saw the results graph) and when you plant your foot the car feels very, very stable and capable - almost as if it were designed for the power. The delivery is quite impressive, gives you a small amount of crushing sensation right in the sternum which is nice. Certainly not as fast as the GSX-R 750 that came before it but the sensations are completely different.
> 
> Jay, I think the TT would take the M6 (for example) around a track, just because a new M6 is £100,000 doesn't mean it will beat a comparatively inexpensive TT. I think a 160bhp 600kg Caterham could probably toast an M6 around a small tight track. The 2017 M6 weighs over 2 tonnes remember.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the Porsche, Dodge Viper, Evora, Ferrari Modena etc those kind of things would of course destroy the car being cars that were designed as a more track orientated / focused car and have a more comparable or lighter kerb weight, but a bargey BMW M6, Aston Martin or the Mercedes AMG? I think it'd hold its own!
> 
> The comparison was merely a bit of fun but similar 1/4 mile times to the cars listed should be expected .


I would love to see the car overtake an M6 round the ring etc ( or any of the cars you mentioned as will see them all there ) that would mean its running under 7:45 very impressive if so ... i am going again next year and your welcome to tag along if you want to try it out 

Would be genuinely interested to see what it does on the qtr mile , should put in a good time i would imagine maybe mid to high 12's i would expect....

You NEED to take Matt up on his offer , will be a very fair test


----------



## infidel.uk

i would expect more than a high 12, ive seen a standard e46 m3 with NO tuning or weight reduction do high 12's


----------



## jamman

Matt B said:


> I'm less than half an hour away if you want to see how it goes against a 400bhp TTRS


----------



## Matt B

I think you are all misinterpreting my offer here. i have also built a high powered mk1. Last dyno was 431bhp and 404 lbft and i would happily go for a drive with Tom to show him that (as he really is local to me) - however its currently undergoing major surgery (currently bottom end is having new crank, bearings, girdle fitted in advance of the EFR7163 and hopefully 500bhp mapping. 
I was just offering something to benchmark against. for his own information. not some kind of ill advised road race.


----------



## ady117

Matt B said:


> I think you are all misinterpreting my offer here. i have also built a high powered mk1. Last dyno was 431bhp and 404 lbft and i would happily go for a drive with Tom to show him that (as he really is local to me) - however its currently undergoing major surgery (currently bottom end is having new crank, bearings, girdle fitted in advance of the EFR7163 and hopefully 500bhp mapping.
> I was just offering something to benchmark against. for his own information. not some kind of ill advised road race.


lol... was only kidding anyway... boooom


----------



## jamman

Matt B said:


> I think you are all misinterpreting my offer here. i have also built a high powered mk1. Last dyno was 431bhp and 404 lbft and i would happily go for a drive with Tom to show him that (as he really is local to me) - however its currently undergoing major surgery (currently bottom end is having new crank, bearings, girdle fitted in advance of the EFR7163 and hopefully 500bhp mapping.
> I was just offering something to benchmark against. for his own information. not some kind of ill advised road race.


I was thinking fast and furious in small blue Speedo's to save extra weight :lol:


----------



## NickG

jamman said:


> Matt B said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are all misinterpreting my offer here. i have also built a high powered mk1. Last dyno was 431bhp and 404 lbft and i would happily go for a drive with Tom to show him that (as he really is local to me) - however its currently undergoing major surgery (currently bottom end is having new crank, bearings, girdle fitted in advance of the EFR7163 and hopefully 500bhp mapping.
> I was just offering something to benchmark against. for his own information. not some kind of ill advised road race.
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking fast and furious in small blue Speedo's to save extra weight :lol:
Click to expand...

Where do I sign up?!


----------



## hang your idols

infidel.uk said:


> i would expect more than a high 12, ive seen a standard e46 m3 with NO tuning or weight reduction do high 12's


I`ve done between 12.1 and 12.3 with 403hp and no weight saving(legal drag street racing);you need to know how to use launch control and no lift shift and i`m not very experienced.


----------



## TT Tom TT

hang your idols said:


> infidel.uk said:
> 
> 
> 
> i would expect more than a high 12, ive seen a standard e46 m3 with NO tuning or weight reduction do high 12's
> 
> 
> 
> I`ve done between 12.1 and 12.3 with 403hp and no weight saving(legal drag street racing);you need to know how to use launch control and no lift shift and i`m not very experienced.
Click to expand...

When he says 'expect more' he means a faster time not a higher time. Infidel is implying the car could dip into the 11's just about which would be correct. A 300bhp/tonne AWD car should manage to dip into the very high 11's in a 1/4 mile.


----------



## hang your idols

TT Tom TT said:


> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> infidel.uk said:
> 
> 
> 
> i would expect more than a high 12, ive seen a standard e46 m3 with NO tuning or weight reduction do high 12's
> 
> 
> 
> I`ve done between 12.1 and 12.3 with 403hp and no weight saving(legal drag street racing);you need to know how to use launch control and no lift shift and i`m not very experienced.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When he says 'expect more' he means a faster time not a higher time. Infidel is implying the car could dip into the 11's just about which would be correct. A 300bhp/tonne AWD car should manage to dip into the very high 11's in a 1/4 mile.
Click to expand...

I understood from the beginning what *infidel* said;how many kg has your car?Mine have 1440kg with have tank petrol and everything on place without driver.
Where is your shift limit?,mine is at 8000rpm which helps on drag racing.


----------



## TT Tom TT

1330kg, had to cut shift limit to about 6700rpm as started running out of fueling, I dare say if I sort the fuel pump out and have the RPM limit increased back to 7.5K it would produce more power. The curve is flatter than the GT28XX so not rev'ing it out isn't much of a big deal. If you compare the dyno graph to one of a GT28XX or similar you will see the difference in the availability of power, 'power-band' seems to be wider.


----------



## jamman

Whereabouts are you Tom ?

I might organise a spring track day so we can have a thrash about.


----------



## TT Tom TT

I'll PM you mate.


----------



## chisharpe

Can I ask how much the Head work cost you?


----------



## TT Tom TT

chisharpe said:


> Can I ask how much the Head work cost you?


£185 for skim, chemical clean, 20 lapped valves, 8 new exhaust valves, new exhaust guides & FAI stem seals. Was very cheap but I did make it clear I was SUPER pissed off that they only did the head 18 months ago and yet the stem seals were on their ass.


----------



## TT Tom TT

This bodes well, as I stated but people tend not to listen to, Rick's dyno' is very, very harsh... Looking forward to getting it onto a local dyno' and seeing what it does !


----------



## jamman

Tom I seriously don't understand why you are so hung up about the numbers on a Dyno just drive the car and enjoy it.

Just say you went onto Bills dyno and did 396 ?

Does it really matter no, but I get the impression you would be distraught.

Drive the chuffing car


----------



## TT Tom TT

jamman said:


> Tom I seriously don't understand why you are so hung up about the numbers on a Dyno just drive the car and enjoy it.
> 
> Just say you went onto Bills dyno and did 396 ?
> 
> Does it really matter no, but I get the impression you would be distraught.
> 
> Drive the chuffing car


Wouldn't happen, will get to put it on Bill's at some point though for fair comparison against his Lupo. I am and it's fun .


----------



## desertstorm

I really don't think Ricks dyno is harsh, it's accurate. Most everybody else seems to have dynos that read higher. Some quite a bit higher. Seems like a waste of money to me running it on another dyno . 
What would you do if it came out lower ? .
That rolling road was put in over 10 years ago, probably a bit worn out now.
http://www.motoscope.co.uk/rolling-road/


----------



## jamman

You could of course save your money and buy the new fuel pump that you desperately need ;-)


----------



## ProjectMick

Don't worry about the dyno dude. Ricks dyno could read high, or low, or somewhere in the middle - just depends on whose it is being compared to and who is operating it on any given day.

Not to mention all the other variables. Plus the fact that that others may be over inflating figures for people.

Don't get hung up on figures - if the car drives well then thats all that matters. I'm sure you still have plenty you can do to make the car quicker that won't show up on any dyno (i.e in the corners)

When Badger did the 380 turbo on the Lupo he had it tested at about three different places and all were quite different.

Just enjoy it, you've had enough crap getting it to work!


----------



## Gonzalo1495

jamman said:


> You could of course save your money and buy the new fuel pump that you desperately need ;-)


 :lol:


----------



## desertstorm

I was going to suggest that the money may be better put towards a fuel pump as that may actually realise an improvement in power. I Picked up a DW65V from Part Box in the Black Friday sale for £197. £15% OFF . Keep an eye on them in the run upto Xmas they may be reduced again.
https://www.part-box.com/deatschwerks-d ... 9-655-1025


----------



## Jools TT

Make sure you purchase 4wd Quattro version


----------



## TT Tom TT

ProjectMick said:


> Don't worry about the dyno dude. Ricks dyno could read high, or low, or somewhere in the middle - just depends on whose it is being compared to and who is operating it on any given day.
> 
> Not to mention all the other variables. Plus the fact that that others may be over inflating figures for people.
> 
> Don't get hung up on figures - if the car drives well then thats all that matters. *I'm sure you still have plenty you can do to make the car quicker that won't show up on any dyno (i.e in the corners) *
> 
> When Badger did the 380 turbo on the Lupo he had it tested at about three different places and all were quite different.
> 
> Just enjoy it, you've had enough crap getting it to work!


I don't really know what's left unless I get into the realms of buying tubular subframes for £500 to save 5kg :?...


----------



## Delta4

That for me is the downside of finishing a project, there is no planning or tinkering left to do, the upside is that your wallet can get fat whilst you spend more time enjoying your car than spending money on it #getoutNdrive


----------



## 3TT3

Lightweight pulley with variable timing :twisted: (surely nothing can go wrong there :lol: ) .


----------



## TT Tom TT

Delta4 said:


> That for me is the downside of finishing a project, there is no planning or tinkering left to do, the upside is that your wallet can get fat whilst you spend more time enjoying your car than spending money on it #getoutNdrive


Absolutely 100% true delta... Definitely a nice perk.



3TT3 said:


> Lightweight pulley with variable timing :twisted: (surely nothing can go wrong there :lol: ) .


I saw a post just the other day on people using lightweight billet pulleys on the block and how absolutely awful the results can be if (WHEN) they sheer off and your valves bend and the block just generally dies :lol:


----------



## ProjectMick

TT Tom TT said:


> I don't really know what's left unless I get into the realms of buying tubular subframes for £500 to save 5kg :?...


Ah, you mean this one......

http://www.prorace-engineering.com/Tubu ... TSFMK4.htm

That was one of the things I meant but then I remembered you are a tight git ha ha ha! :lol:


----------



## TT Tom TT

I stand corrected, 3.8kg of weight saving for £664.65.

Madness [smiley=dizzy2.gif]...


----------



## ProjectMick

TT Tom TT said:


> I stand corrected, 3.8kg of weight saving for £664.65.
> 
> Madness [smiley=dizzy2.gif]...


Can't argue with that - even though I'd still have one if I could lol!


----------



## NickG

TT Tom TT said:


> I stand corrected, 3.8kg of weight saving for £664.65.
> 
> Madness [smiley=dizzy2.gif]...


Except :arrow: it's about so much more then weightsaving, it's about correcting the geometry and therefore improving the handling! The weight loss is just an added bonus!


----------



## TT Tom TT

What exactly does it correct? Front camber is at what I believe to be -3 approximately, toe is parallel and castor is I think 8 degrees either side if that's the correct unit which isn't too bad.

More castor and even more negative camber permitted with the tubular sub-frame?


----------



## ProjectMick

TT Tom TT said:


> What exactly does it correct? Front camber is at what I believe to be -3 approximately, toe is parallel and castor is I think 8 degrees either side if that's the correct unit which isn't too bad.
> 
> More castor and even more negative camber permitted with the tubular sub-frame?


On a more serious note, when I asked about this a while back Max gave the following reply/information.

1) The tubular subframe is significantly more rigid than the OEM one (especially the suspension pick up points). Having less flex keep the dynamic geometry where it belongs. Reduction in dynamic toe movement under load would be the biggest benefit from the increased rigidity.

2) The geometry is altered. The control arm mounting points are raised to get the static roll center closer to the center of gravity. The bump-steer characteristics are also corrected to match by rasing the steering rack mounting position. The combination is probably the best handling improvement that can be done on our MacPherson design by changing components (except for tyres obviously).

Doubt I'd ever be able to part with that much money for it unfortunately, but it does have its benefits.


----------



## Madmax199

Happy for you Thomas, glad that you stuck to it and got the results. Like I said many times, if you do the work you will get the numbers. She still has more left in her, but enjoy it as is for a while before taking it to the next level.


----------



## TT Tom TT

I see the benefit of the tubular sub now you've spelled it out for me now Mick' cheers, I still am of the same opinion as yourself that FOR US it's not worth the money.

Max, many thanks for your guidance on multiple areas of the car as always, it's appreciated.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Hi guys,

Just to re-iterate on a previous issue, the car was getting close but not dangerously close to maxing out the 630cc Bosch EV14 injectors at just over 400bhp using a 265lph fuel pump.

The forum reasonably suggested it could be the A36HV fuel pump (DW65V alternative) that is degrading. At first this made sense, I carried on driving the car and then one day I gave it the beans in 3rd and after it got past about 4.5K the car was fuel starved (as if it ran out of fuel momentarily). I thought when this happened that it must be due to the pump degrading and getting worse...

Any way, a few days ago I was muddling around in the engine bay when I knocked the fuel rail by accident and realised that it was loose - both bolts were missing and I found the injectors were about 1cm raised up from their seat in the inlet manifold. After getting the right sized bolts and some vibration washers the fuel starvation issue is gone.

I have done several (about 8-10) hard full throttle pulls from 1st and through to 4th gear with absolutely no hiccups. I wonder now, *is it possible that the duty cycle of the injectors were so high due to them not being in the correct position rather than there being a problem with the fuel pump?*

I know the best way to find out would be to do some pulls and log the duty cycle but I still don't have VAGcom.

Cheers guys.


----------



## Delta4

I did ask you if you was certain that the pump was playing, i reckon that you've finally answered that question :lol:


----------



## TT Tom TT

I hope so too Delta, saving myself a few hours of swapping the pump and not having to pay another £200+ for a pump would be a very welcome surprise 8)


----------



## Squadromeo

TT Tom TT said:


> I hope so too Delta, saving myself a few hours of swapping the pump and not having to pay another £200+ for a pump would be a very welcome surprise 8)


Great you sorted it! 
Since it saved you 200 Pound, you have some money left to buy VCDS (lite) :twisted: Or try ME7Logger for free, of course


----------



## desertstorm

Sounds good, definitely looks like you have sorted an issue there. If the injectors have moved far enough out then you would potentially have a boost leak as the seal on the injector body may not be sealing correctly. Also as you say the injector nozzle wouldn't be in the correct place in the manifold.
Me7Logger is the best solution to logging on the 1.8T engine if you can get it sorted. The logging rate on VCDS is just too slow .


----------



## Smurfbud

These are better looking IMO but each to their own ....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-TT-8N-98 ... 1438.l2649


----------



## Allspeed

Who's talking about rear lights? :wink:


----------



## Squadromeo

Smurfbud said:


> These are better looking IMO but each to their own ....
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-TT-8N-98 ... 1438.l2649


I've got those. Look really nice but do not give a lot of light. When there's a lot of sun light, it's very hard to see the brake lights.

Wouldn't buy them again, to be honest...


----------



## TT-Dru

Allspeed said:


> Who's talking about rear lights? :wink:


+1
There was a thread recently about led rears. Perhaps Hoggy could move it to there


----------



## TT Tom TT

Updated thread with plans for 2018, this will be the last batches of mods I'll ever do bar maintenance or something ground breaking coming up (I.E. affordable 3.5inch down pipe or something).


----------



## desertstorm

Number 6 looks interesting is that 420-450 bhp with the same hybrid turbo ? .

https://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorspo ... es-109-ron

https://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorspo ... acing-fuel


----------



## TT Tom TT

It will be yeah, no racing fuel or E85 dyno magic, just T99 and WMI as always. Gotta aim big I suppose and 420+ is a hell of a target.

Looking forward to the increase in audibility of the compressor wheel following the TIP delete and the noise of the Forge atmospheric dump valve (FMDV004). Plan to get this step done over the weekend weather permitting


----------



## welly24

interesting I'm thinking of a set of maxspeeding rods before mapping,dont fancy a piston waving at me, any info on conrods would help thanks,are you using standard pistons and whats max boost these will take,i have the bam engine with a stage 2 map at the moment mine is a sleeper but its a citroen c2 lol


----------



## TT Tom TT

Hi Welly, I am using the stock pistons and I'm also using MaxSpeeding rods, make sure if you buy a set then you weigh them, I weighed mine and there was only 0.2 grams in weight difference between all 4! (I.E 99.8-100.0) so they were well-made. If yours aren't send them off to be balanced.

I also had mine rifle-drilled but the company that did this service for me no longer does it, I was also told by quite a few people the rifle drilling isn't actually a REAL thing but it is! If you ring around you might find another place that will do it but it's like trying to find hen teeth as it requires specialist machinery and knowledge to do properly.

The engine will take as much boost as you throw at it really so long as you've done rods, bearings etc and everything else is sound. I think people have ran ridiculous amounts of boost through the 1.8T, some up to 40-50 PSI but that's with different turbos.

On the stock K04 (if you're using the stock K04) 30 PSI is fine, Max Clesca has done it for thousands of miles with no problems years ago, just make sure EGT's are in check if you do this!


----------



## welly24

my turbo is a k04 001 hybrid has the k04 inlet side and the k03 exhaust side just rebuilt the engine 100 miles ago but ran out of funds for rods,shame to strip it but needs must, what sort of figures we looking at it has a stage 1 or 2 map on the 225 bam ecu at the momentist supposed to be 265bhp ,just didn't know how far to go and what bits I might need depending on what Shark can get out of it,mostly standard bam engine,just different inlet to suit car runs realy well and goes like a missile,weighs in at 920 kgms


----------



## TT Tom TT

Stage 1 or 2 on a K04-023 is 260-280bhp so I would be surprised if one with a K03 hot-side was that kind of power, I'd have thought maybe 20bhp less but I could be wrong :-|


----------



## TT Tom TT

Don't you love how the simplest of things tend not to work for one reason or another?

I installed my Forge FMDV004, it is open at idle... Upon explaining this to Forge, they told me there is a white nylon piston keeping it closed despite the main metal piston being nowhere in sight at idle... When the engine turns off the piston slams shut (which to my mind is where it should be at idle)... Car doesn't run like it should as I believe the valve isn't adequately sprung.

It was said on the phone that when the main piston is being sucked up the valve by idle and is no longer visible through the holes a white nylon piston blocks the boost inlet so unfiltered air cannot be drawn in through the holes... I asked him why when I had the valve off the car and compressed the main piston with my thumb to replicate the vacuum opening it at idle, this mysterious white nylon piston did not appear to stop my thumb?

Very confused at what the Forge representative is talking about, to my mind a dump valve should be closed at idle, end of.

Here are two pictures of the valve with the engine off and the piston closed (you can see the silver piston through the holes):



















Here's three pictures of the valve with the engine turned on idling, piston has been sucked up via vacuum and spring is just about visible in last picture.


----------



## Delta4

Did you ask whether a change of spring would help ? according to the info on the website you should'nt be having any issues ?


----------



## stevov

First thing I would do is relocate to the cold side. If you have any pressure drop through the intercooler you you are getting hot side pressure acting against cold side control pressure


----------



## LesRSV

stevov said:


> First thing I would do is relocate to the cold side


you might be better moving it to the Dark Side, may the Forge be with you :evil:

I'm just leaving now-


----------



## Beunhaas

Or put a tial q (knockoff) BOV on, i know you want to


----------



## ProjectMick

Would have thought you would be running a modified Mitsubishi one by now.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Don't tempt me into trying to get me to fit something I don't know how to Beun :lol:...

I think I'm going to take it apart tomorrow and see what's going on, it looks like it could do with a clean up (bought it second hand for £30).

Delta, Forge rep' said a stronger spring or some washer shim thingies might be needed but he was CONVINCED it should be open at idle...

Mick, I'm no longer re-circulating my air so no need for a re-circulation valve any more. Unless of course I can't get this blasted thing to work!


----------



## Delta4

Since your going to be taking it apart you may as well try a shim/£2 coin whatever to see if it helps


----------



## ProjectMick

TT Tom TT said:


> Mick, I'm no longer re-circulating my air so no need for a re-circulation valve any more. Unless of course I can't get this blasted thing to work!


Very true - I shall go and sit in the corner for 5 minutes and then re read your thread properly! [smiley=book2.gif]


----------



## welly24

.


----------



## Jools TT

welly24 said:


> so I'm looking to change the turbo hows the gt2871 sound,,,,.. I don't want lots of lag or is there one that's a good choice for 350bhp plus a vband would be better for downpipe as I don't have much room ,,what are you guys running injector and pump wise thanks


Holy thread Hijack


----------



## TT Tom TT

Welly, I've PM'd you - Jools' was only messing about, no harm in asking questions but you'd be better doing it on a new thread or one of your own existing ones for it to get a bit more coverage / visibility.

Hope I've answered your questions, if you have any more feel free to PM me back with more questions. I'm more than happy to help out if I can.


----------



## TT Tom TT

After taking apart the dump valve and degreasing it, it works a lot better now and I now actually understand how the thing works by taking it apart.

It was absolutely filthy / greasy but it's all good to go now. Going to phone Forge on Monday and ask them if the main outer piston requires a small amount of lubricant to make sliding past the two o-rings that seal against it for vacuum easier.


----------



## Wak

At idle manifold is under vacuum which feeds the top nipple of the dv therefore a dv will be opened at idle! ( typically )

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## TT Tom TT

That's true for single piston dump valves. After taking apart the FMDV004 I realised it contains two pistons as well as two springs (the latter I wasn't aware of). It was indeed closed at idle despite what it looked like, the secondary small piston essentially acts as a movable blanking plate at idle and under light load conditions.

It works fine now, took it out for a run and there's a dramatic improvement, low end torque and light throttle applications seem better than they were with a diverter valve as under these circumstances the system is closed loop rather than being ever so slightly diluted via an open diverter valve.

I really like the valve and now that I've cleaned it up I'm very impressed with it and will be keeping it! The valve causes a very small amount of compressor surge on lift-off at light loads. As an estimate I would say below 2-3 PSI the valve doesn't open at all but again, air going back through the compressor wheel at this speed isn't detrimental (IMO). Anything over 3 PSI and it dumps everything quite happily. I'd much rather have it this way than running a diverter valve and having low down torque watered down, so all seems good Beunhaas if you're reading! Looking forward to how you find the tial valve on your car 8)


----------



## Delta4

Out of interest, what have you done regarding induction have you capped off the redundant tip ports or something different


----------



## Beunhaas

Good work Tom! Only thing to keep in mind is the bov is blowing 150 degrees hot air over your coilpack, i don't know if they like it or not, but just something to think about. [smiley=cheers.gif]

Ordered a stainless flange for the bov so will get it mounted on the car soon.


----------



## intott

Nah, the boost expansion from the dv will cool the air down


----------



## Wak

TT Tom TT said:


> That's true for single piston dump valves. After taking apart the FMDV004 I realised it contains two pistons as well as two springs (the latter I wasn't aware of). It was indeed closed at idle despite what it looked like, the secondary small piston essentially acts as a movable blanking plate at idle and under light load conditions.
> 
> It works fine now, took it out for a run and there's a dramatic improvement, low end torque and light throttle applications seem better than they were with a diverter valve as under these circumstances the system is closed loop rather than being ever so slightly diluted via an open diverter valve.
> 
> I really like the valve and now that I've cleaned it up I'm very impressed with it and will be keeping it! The valve causes a very small amount of compressor surge on lift-off at light loads. As an estimate I would say below 2-3 PSI the valve doesn't open at all but again, air going back through the compressor wheel at this speed isn't detrimental (IMO). Anything over 3 PSI and it dumps everything quite happily. I'd much rather have it this way than running a diverter valve and having low down torque watered down, so all seems good Beunhaas if you're reading! Looking forward to how you find the tial valve on your car 8)


These twin spring designs work as usual in the way of vacuum releasing the pressure of the main spring.

The second light spring on the piston is simply to help make that chatter/surge noise.

It's no more complex than that, it's for that chatter noise the kids just love!


----------



## TT Tom TT

Delta4 said:


> Out of interest, what have you done regarding induction have you capped off the redundant tip ports or something different


I bought a gigantic stubby bolt to fill the hole in the TIP for the DV and jubilee clipped it. Big stainless steel thing, must have weighed about 400g, £1.10 it cost! TIP and PCV system are getting ripped out at some point though, I was going to do it this weekend but the weather has been crap and I've also been wondering if without a map tweak my idle might be terrible.



Beunhaas said:


> Good work Tom! Only thing to keep in mind is the bov is blowing 150 degrees hot air over your coilpack, i don't know if they like it or not, but just something to think about. [smiley=cheers.gif]
> 
> Ordered a stainless flange for the bov so will get it mounted on the car soon.


I considered this but the rocker cover gets RIDICULOUSLY hot so figured the coil packs must be made from reasonably heat tolerant plastic and electronics, only a couple of the holes dissipate heat close to coil-pack number 2, I've checked it and there's no signs of melting etc so I think it's okay but appreciate you looking out for me on the off-chance I didn't consider this!



intott said:


> Nah, the boost expansion from the dv will cool the air down


I don't understand what this means :lol:, unless you're implying the valve is much bigger allowing better heat dissipation through it having a much larger volume. If so, I agree !


----------



## Beunhaas

TT Tom TT said:


> intott said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, the boost expansion from the dv will cool the air down
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand what this means :lol:, unless you're implying the valve is much bigger allowing better heat dissipation through it having a much larger volume. If so, I agree !
Click to expand...

Very sharp, didnt think about adiabatic expansion! 

Tom, what it basically means a gas that is expanding fast wont have transfer of thermal energy to its surrounding so it cools down while expanding.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Ah, I get it. Makes sense, the air is almost air-cooled as it expands... It's air, cooling air (due to expansion).

Thank you.


----------



## intott

Beunhaas said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> intott said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, the boost expansion from the dv will cool the air down
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand what this means :lol:, unless you're implying the valve is much bigger allowing better heat dissipation through it having a much larger volume. If so, I agree !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very sharp, didnt think about adiabatic expansion!
> 
> Tom, what it basically means a gas that is expanding fast wont have transfer of thermal energy to its surrounding so it cools down while expanding.
Click to expand...

 [smiley=cheers.gif] [smiley=dude.gif]


----------



## chisharpe

TT Tom TT said:


> *UPDATE:* Chinafold has been ported and worked, copper gasket has been matched and so has the turbo hotside. The results are amazing and I am starting to question whether this can be called a K04 any more :lol:...
> 
> The last two pictures are the machining to the turbo outlet done by Badger 5 too, thought I'd include them for good measure as well...
> 
> View attachment 6
> 
> 
> View attachment 5
> 
> 
> View attachment 4
> 
> 
> View attachment 3
> 
> 
> View attachment 2
> 
> 
> View attachment 1


did you end up using a copper gasket? or going gasketless


----------



## TT Tom TT

chisharpe said:


> did you end up using a copper gasket? or going gasketless


Gasketless, been okay so far. I had the collector face of the manifold skimmed in the same way a cylinder head would be.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Had the car weighed today, stock front heavy heated seats and rear seats in tact as well as all engine covers and panels, a full tank of water-methanol fluid in the screen-wash reservoir, just under an eighth of a tank of petrol and the heavy 255/35/18 tyres!

Very pleased with the result all things considered. I imagine with myself in the driving seat and half a tank of petrol I'd be tipping the scales at just over 1400kg which isn't too bad at all!


----------



## chisharpe

What have you taken off the car?


----------



## TT Tom TT

chisharpe said:


> What have you taken off the car?


- OZ Superleggera alloys replacing the RS4 9 spoke alloys
- Spare wheel, first aid kit & warning triangle removed
- Air conditioning delete (blowers still work, only need the AC for maybe 20-30 days a year)
- Harmonic dampener / counter-weight / ballast thingy
- PVR 22 clubsport lightweight battery, battery holder, bolts and steady removed
- 3" Stainless Steel exhaust, no cats, no backbox, 2 silencers.
- Lightweight brake calipers (Brembo GT 4 pots)
- Towing hitch and bolts removed

Surprising how much these things add up to in the end, I've listed them in order of what saves the most weight, roughly.


----------



## Delta4

Have you considered ditching the rear seat's or back rest's at least.


----------



## TT Tom TT

I have, I know that'd be good for about 15-20kg right? Benefit of this is that they do a great job along with the parcel shelf of blocking out exhaust noise and thus improving my driving experience as well as retaining a nice look inside the cabin and the flexibility of taking a 3rd and or 4th passenger !

I think I'd be more keen to replace the heavy stock leather heated seats with lightweight variants before I considered removing the back ones but like the look of the stock interior too much to remove it, silly I know.


----------



## desertstorm

Quite surprised it's that light considering what you could still remove. Still have a few things to get rid of on my car.


----------



## Delta4

Sound proofing material under the boot floor/wheel well works very well if you do decide not to carry vertically challenged people in the TT  given the bhp your car has the ability to scare the bejesus out of yourself won't be blunted by a small amount of weight.


----------



## TT Tom TT

Delta4 said:


> Sound proofing material under the boot floor/wheel well works very well if you do decide not to carry vertically challenged people in the TT  given the bhp your car has the ability to scare the bejesus out of yourself won't be blunted by a small amount of weight.


Already done this with the boot, have a very thick piece of cavity insulation cutout to the dimensions of the spare wheel well and then a layer of thick cardboard over that underneath the boot floor! Good shout on doing something under the seats though, will do that soon! The insulation brings me onto my next post...


----------



## TT Tom TT

For the benefit of 777HAM, here is a picture of my battery set-up with the PVR 22:


----------



## desertstorm

Whats it encased in ?. Looks like a bin bag that was filled with expanding foam or similar. Very OE looking though.

Edit, just read your other post . I like the thinking .


----------



## NickG

Looks like highly flammable PIR insulation to me.. similar to the stuff used at Grenfell :? Not ideal.


----------



## desertstorm

OOH maybe not so good then


----------



## TT Tom TT

This is the info I could find on the material, some places seem to list it as fireproofing material. Does seem a little odd though as I wouldn't exactly say 120oC is remotely fireproof *confused*...


----------



## NickG

Tom, do you know the brand of insulation you used?

You get Polyisocyanurate (PIR) which is the most common insulation that you'd find laying around.

You can also get Phenolic foam insulation which combines phenol-formaldehyde resin with a foaming agent. Phenolic insulation is less common (Although is getting increased use) and does improved _better_ fire properties, but is still combustible at a point. I find it unlikely that you had this laying around for use, but of course not impossible!


----------



## TT Tom TT

Unsure as the rest got binned after I did this a few months ago. I can describe it though, it had the foil along one side, the material itself when touched would almost 'dust' into small pieces and was a sand-like colour.


----------



## NickG

Both types are foil faced. Phenolic generally has pink-ish core whereas PIR is generally the yellow sandy colour you describe.

I'm not saying your car is going to spontaneously combust, i just think it's important you are aware of what it is (For what it's worth i wouldn't be putting the stuff under my bonnet.).


----------



## TT Tom TT

I used to have the pink stuff but didn't have much and the battery wasn't very secure.

To be fair the battery terminals themselves etc protrude out from the foam so there is some air supply going to them. I'm unsure of the potential fire hazard as I don't think the battery gets that hot and if something else is on fire in the nearby radius I have bigger problems to worry about than the foam catching fire.

Could you point out the hazards as I'm failing to see them unless the battery were to catch fire? How dangerous exactly as this?


----------



## NickG

Who knows, might be fine, its just not non-combustible so it's a potential hazard. Keep an eye on it at least.


----------



## TT Tom TT

NickG said:


> Who knows, might be fine, its just not non-combustible so it's a potential hazard. Keep an eye on it at least.


I get you, thanks for the concern / advice 8).


----------



## Jools TT

For peace of mind Tom I would remove and purchase a battery cage to suit the dimensions of the pvr22 battery

Was surprised to see your Oem boost pipes are still on with 30psi going through them ......go Audi


----------



## TT Tom TT

They have all been tightened within an inch of their life!


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## chisharpe

Tom was there a reason you didn't get the exhaust valves done?


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## Jools TT

chisharpe said:


> Tom was there a reason you didn't get the exhaust valves done?


Probably no need as EGT are lower when using wmi


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## TT Tom TT

I had new OEM Sodium filled valves put in, the concern is that over time and use the Sodium degrades and the amount present decreases which can result in them being weaker than they should be as they're not able to dissipate heat as well any more. Because of this, some people end up installing the inconnel valves to cover their ass.

I figured they'd be okay and I've seen a lot of builds where people have not used them and they've had no problems, I suppose it's a calculated gamble given that I had new exhaust valves. They were put in for free so I saved myself the cost of the SuperTechs.


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## chisharpe

Cheers tom. How's the car going anyways? Any teething problems since it's all been mapped?


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## TT Tom TT

It's all good, the exhaust is rattling though at the back which is annoying. Will be being addressed soon!


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## desertstorm

Fixed my exhaust rattle this afternoon. It was the heatshield above the rear exhaust . One of the securing nuts and washers had dissolved as they do and left it to resonate at certain RPM.
Quick fix was to use a tie wrap to go through the hole round the bracket at the back and round the outside of the heatshield. Seems to have worked loud rattle has now dissapeared.


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## TT Tom TT

desertstorm said:


> Fixed my exhaust rattle this afternoon. It was the heatshield above the rear exhaust . One of the securing nuts and washers had dissolved as they do and left it to resonate at certain RPM.
> Quick fix was to use a tie wrap to go through the hole round the bracket at the back and round the outside of the heatshield. Seems to have worked loud rattle has now dissapeared.


Cheers mate, I'll have a look soon. Thanks for the possible and likely diagnosis !


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## chisharpe

How does this actually drive is there much lag? See there's a massive drop off after it hits power on these hybrids


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## TT Tom TT

The graph on the front page shows the power-curve. My RPM's were cut off as ran out of fuelling. Hopefully come the end of this year or sometime next year the RPM limit will be extended to 7.5K and the boost upped to 33/34 PSI. There is no drop off, I think you're thinking of a normal K04, if you look at the graph there is no drop off in bhp, it just keeps going up until (in my case) it ran out of fuelling.


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## TTSingh

Great build!


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