# SITE NEWS - Marketplace on trial as a 'no-reply' zone



## kmpowell

This decision has been discussed in the Moderators room, and it was a pretty much unanimous that we are going to trial all 3 sections of the 'Marketplace' as no-reply zones for a few weeks.

The reasons for this are two fold. Despite the introduction of the 'No chat' rule. People choose to ignore this and still give their 2p worth on items they have no intention of buying. The threads then get hijacked, argument breaks out, items are bumped etc. It also makes the area very hard to moderate in terms of ensuring items have a price clearly displayed etc

Lot's of other forums also do this, so we are going to give it a go here. The Forum's software is flexible enough for us to deactivate the ability to reply to posts, so we have switched that on.

Thanks


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## KammyTT

will sellers be ensuring threads are updated with sold etc as i dont fancy sending countless pm`s to forum members when the item has already sold :roll:.

i know some people will like this and some will hate it (cant keep everyone happy)


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## Guest

This will annoy a lot of people.

Without a post to show you've 'got there first' it will lead to a lot of buyers being 'gazumped'

Also people may have important feedback on a seller, which potential buyers should be aware of, if they can't post it, it leaves the marketplace vulnerable to scammers.


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## Guest

surprised nobody else has an opinion on this :roll:


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## Wallsendmag

Sounds like a good idea to me, when's the powder room going ?


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## Silversea

It's a bit of a P.I.T.A as you cannot up-date your posts etc..... :?


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## KammyTT

seconded!


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## Ikon66

Silversea said:


> It's a bit of a P.I.T.A as you cannot up-date your posts etc..... :?


can you not just edit the post to update it? that will stop it bumping back to the top tho


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## triplefan

I don't understand how it being a no reply zone, helps moderate ads with no price?

Granted, people do ignore the no chat rule, but we are far to gregarious and used to the relaxed way this forum is run, this is definitely step backwards, when can we go back to the old system?


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## bigsyd

i was just about to post...there is a problem with the market place :roll: then i seen this post :roll: :roll: but i also prefer it as it was...but how about how they do it on detailing world, a yearly charge gives you the opportunity to use the board to sell things, i generates some funds for the club and works well over @ DW


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## Silversea

triplefan said:


> I don't understand how it being a no reply zone, helps moderate ads with no price?
> 
> Granted, people do ignore the no chat rule, but we are far to gregarious and used to the relaxed way this forum is run, this is definitely step backwards, when can we go back to the old system?


My thoughts exactly! :wink:


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## TTgreeny

dont over moderate the forum [smiley=book2.gif] 
i think it runs pretty well as is,i've even got used to deals bein dealt with via pm's rather than in the threads for all to see (as much as i think u should still change that)


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## Silversea

In general, I thought the classified section ran really well on here to be honest..... :-|

If someone is unhappy with off topic conversation on their classified advert can they not just click on the "report" button or contact a mod or admin?? :?

Surely that would save additional work, time and effort for the mods and admin guys???

There is usually enough issues to keep them busy without having to worry about an area that "seems" to run reasonably well on its own.

Is this assumption incorrect?? :roll:


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## CamV6

This is not an idea IMO that helps sellers or buyers rather it helps only the Moderators. Sorry, but that's my view.

Post after post after post with no pics and no price, but that's allowed to go whereas a little friendly banter, funtime spammage, and discusion is ruled out? Its through discussion on a sale thread that misunderstandings, mis-listings and problems are brought to light.

If you cant be bothered to have a fully functioning sale section then get rid of it completely, cos doing it this way will lead only to frustration, bitterness and more arguments that could hurt or community.

Why not let me help moderate the for sale section, I'd be happy to do it. As some of the Mods may know its been something I've made suggestions on a few times in the past.

Personally, I think that the rule on www.detailingworld.co.uk are spot on for forum selling, and I also happen to think that those who want to sell via the forum should have to pay, say £5 a year subscription to your local friendly TT owners club. That'll sort the sellers from the losers a little AND it'll swell club coffers which will ultimately be spent on TT owners without the TTF being accused of anything unfortunate.


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## KammyTT

great idea... also it will stop people joining just to sell 

id be happy to pay £5 if it went back to normal :wink:


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## NaughTTy

Can't see this working very well tbh. As people have said above - how are people going to know who got to a deal first (apart from the seller.)? Could result in people abusing the system if they want to sell to a particular person and the first come, first served aspect gets forgotten. Could then result in the non-auction rule being abused by pm if the seller then asks for higher offers - all unseen.

Also, as said above, someone may have some useful info for a sale (as I have for one at the moment) but can't bring it to everyone's attention - in my case it may well have helped the seller.

Not sure I agree with charging for the board's use though - nightmare of logistics involved in that idea imo.

In general I think the For Sale section has worked pretty well since the latest rules were introduced. There are some obvious exceptions but that's just human nature - in the main, it's mostly working well.


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## kmpowell

Thanks for the feedback guys.

This new rule is not definite, and it's only there whilst we work out how to introduce a new way of getting the the marketplace working properly.

So far there have been some excellent suggestions in this thread and has given us lots of food for thought.

Keep it coming.


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## CamV6

Kev, I'm serious about offering my assistance as a moderator. I even promise not to start any rows with anyone!


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## KammyTT

CamV6 said:


> Kev, I'm serious about offering my assistance as a moderator. I even promise not to start any rows with anyone!


dont believe ya! :lol:


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## CamV6

KammyTT said:


> dont believe ya! :lol:


Darn it, busted again! :roll: :wink:


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## stundies

Do think this is the way forward. If you sell something then you have to reply to dozens of PM's, writing probablt the same thing over and over again. That's just my opinion.


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## Wallsendmag

stundies said:


> Do think this is the way forward. If you sell something then you have to reply to dozens of PM's, writing probablt the same thing over and over again. That's just my opinion.


Cut and Paste works well for that :wink: Seriously though I don't think this is the way forward


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## triplefan

stundies said:


> Do think this is the way forward. If you sell something then you have to reply to dozens of PM's, writing probablt the same thing over and over again. That's just my opinion.


Or update the ad to say SOLD

Can you do that now?


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## jammyd

triplefan said:


> stundies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do think this is the way forward. If you sell something then you have to reply to dozens of PM's, writing probablt the same thing over and over again. That's just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> Or update the ad to say SOLD
> 
> Can you do that now?
Click to expand...

Do you not have an edit button in the top corner of your posts?


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## CamV6

Well, if the rule is to stay there needs to be strict adherence to a price and a picture of the item itself (not a generic pic) with someting else in the pic showing the date and the forum member's name


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## jammyd

CamV6 said:


> Well, if the rule is to stay there needs to be strict adherence to a price and a picture of the item itself (not a generic pic) with someting else in the pic showing the date and the forum member's name


Totally agree... need to prove you have the goods


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## kmpowell

CamV6 said:


> there needs to be strict adherence to a price


Easier said than done I'm afraid. You can have all the rules in world, you can put them in red, and you can put them in bold, but people will ignore them.

I personally agree with everything you have written (apart from the charging to advertise bit), but trust me when I say it's difficult to moderate. Unless you can come up with a way of stopping people chatting and ensuring they put prices in threads, then everything you have suggested won't be any different to what we have now.

:?:


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## KammyTT

i didnt think we had a problem in the first place tbh.


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## kmpowell

KammyTT said:


> i didnt think we had a problem in the first place tbh.


A classic example happened 2 days before we implemented the rule:

1. Somebody advertises a set of 19" wheels with a price, stating the condition etc
2. Somebody else saw fit to add a reply saying they recently bought some 18" wheels which they thought looked better than the 19" wheels the OP was selling. That person also stated he thought the 19" wheels were overpriced.
3. Other people who had no intention of buying the wheels chipped in sharing their opinion.

An argument ensued where the OP understandable got irritated with the person who posted and also the subsequent posts.

So. Why did the person who had no interest in buying the wheels, feel the need to ignore the rules and reply in the first place. Why did other people who also had no interest in buying the wheels also feel the need to ignore the rules and contribute. The argument pushed other peoples adverts down the page as this thread was needlessly bumped and bad feeling took place.

It's that kind of thing we are trying to stop. Simple.


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## Wallsendmag

Just trying to save OUR members from some rip off merchant.


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## kmpowell

wallsendmag said:


> Just trying to save OUR members from some rip off merchant


No you weren't, you were sharing _your_ opinion on something you had no intention of buying. Just because _you_ think it's too expensive, it doesn't making one of - as you like to call them - OUR members (he has a good post history) a 'rip off merchant'. If it's too expensive then nobody will buy, do you trawl through the Autotrader and ring people up saying their car is too expensive? Do you trawl through your local rag ringing up people who you think have overpriced their goods for sale? Personally I thought the item was fairly reasonable priced for 19" wheels.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=146423

Anyway, this wasn't brought in because of your specific case (which I deliberately kept anonymous), it was brought it because things exactly like this were happening too frequently.


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## KammyTT

this isnt an easy problem to fix as there is always going to be someone that doesnt agree with the rules :?

maybe a poll with a set of options will give you and jae an idea of what the general opinions of what everyone would prefer


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## kmpowell

KammyTT said:


> this isnt an easy problem to fix as there is always going to be someone that doesnt agree with the rules :?
> 
> maybe a poll with a set of options will give you and jae an idea of what the general opinions of what everyone would prefer


Kam - it's cool. All the ideas that people post in this thread are being discussed by ALL the moderating team (it's not down to myself and Jae, everybody gets a say). We will then agree on a set of rules and post them up to see what people think of them BEFORE we put them live. We can then tweak and adjust them accordingly.

As you say, we won't be able to please 100% of the people 100% of the time, but ultimately there are two things we are all trying to address:
1. Ensuring people price things properly, which IMO has got a bit better recently but still needs a bit of work.
2. Eliminating the trolling and chat in threads by people who have no intention of buying.


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## triplefan

Not sure who would be an arbiter on point 1, but as regards point two, plenty of people post to point out the OPs transgressions if they do not follow the rules, we can report spam, why not ads with no price, irrelevant chat etc?


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## KammyTT

have you heard from matt (RKO7) recently? he hasnt been onli for months or at least he isnt showing as being online :?


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## kmpowell

triplefan said:


> we can report spam, why not ads with no price, irrelevant chat etc?


Good idea tripplefan! - when Jae is back from Hols (the reason I am back here keeping an eye on things at the mo) I'll get him to add a 'Report For Sale Item' that falls outside the rules, option. This will then appear in the drop down list when somebody hits the normal 'Report Post' button.

Couple that with perhaps a new moderator (if Cam still wants the job?) and that might just help solve rule one. However, how do we solve the 2nd problem of trolling/chat?


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## jammyd

kmpowell said:


> triplefan said:
> 
> 
> 
> we can report spam, why not ads with no price, irrelevant chat etc?
> 
> 
> 
> Good idea tripplefan! - when Jae is back from Hols (the reason I am back here keeping an eye on things at the mo) I'll get him to add a 'Report For Sale Item' that falls outside the rules, option. This will then appear in the drop down list when somebody hits the normal 'Report Post' button.
> 
> Couple that with perhaps a new moderator (if Cam still wants the job?) and that might just help solve rule one. However, how do we solve the 2nd problem of trolling/chat?
Click to expand...

Yeah give CamV6 the job of looking after it


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## KammyTT

jammy your just lazy :lol:

ill easy come on board to help keep it in control


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## jammyd

KammyTT said:


> jammy your just lazy :lol:
> 
> ill easy come on board to help keep it in control


Lazy :lol: :lol: :lol: With looking after you lot, and now being treasurer of the TTOC I do not think I have time to be lazy!


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## KammyTT

fair point


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## CamV6

Go, on then I'll do it, seriously, but if I do I'll have to be quite savage about it by moderating/deleting adverts that dont adhere to the rules immediately, AND moderating/deleting relplies that are inappropriate/not about genuine interest in the item. Folk will have to get used to intervention in that forum so that the rules can be applied properly but reasonably/with leeway where appropriate.

I'd also have to insist on haggling being done on the thread for everyone to see rather than by PM, even if difficult to enforce.

If folk can live with that, I'll take it on, although I dont guarantee to be able to get on every night due to work and I'm unable to get access much if at all during the working week,


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## KammyTT

maybe a role for more than one person :roll:


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## slg

the guy with the white beard in your avatar would be good! :wink:


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## KammyTT

i still have no idea who he is meant to be :lol:


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## CamV6

I always assumed it was your girlfriend! :lol:


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## KammyTT

my girlfriend is nowhere near that tall! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## stevebeechTA

I can see were every one is coming from with this lot, I therefor have a couple of suggestions some of wich have already been said.

extra mods would help:

1. We pay for ttoc membership each year or two or whatever, could this not be linked to the for sale part of the forum, as in you cant sell or buy till you have paid up for membership.

2. If rules are continuously abused or x amount of times then a forum ban could be imposed for a few days or a week or whatever. This could stand generally across the forum, there would have to be a discussion between mods before this happens not just one mod so that mod does not get the flack for doing it.

I have seen this type of thing work on other forums, just an idea.


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## Wallsendmag

stevebeechTA said:


> 1. We pay for ttoc membership each year or two or whatever, could this not be linked to the for sale part of the forum, as in you cant sell or buy till you have paid up for membership.


Only problem with this is although we work closely together we are two seperate bodies.


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## stevebeechTA

what about if we have to apply to post in the for sale section. then we could give the ttoc membership number, then it could be unlocked to specific peeps. although it could be a lot of work for someone. We could just pay a ten pound donation for the year towards the cost of the site. as there is no other cost involved to use the rest of the site wich is good as it could put of new members


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## TTgreeny

wallsendmag said:


> stevebeechTA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. We pay for ttoc membership each year or two or whatever, could this not be linked to the for sale part of the forum, as in you cant sell or buy till you have paid up for membership.
> 
> 
> 
> Only problem with this is although we work closely together we are two seperate bodies.
Click to expand...

dont think that would be any good,unless you have the cars for sale section seperate,plus the forums for evryone not just ttoc members lets not try an make it for the elitists  i couldn't really see a problem with the forsale section,i've seen a few over priced items that have been advertised,these have been pointed out by people in the know which is stoppin members from gettin ripped off,a no chit chat rule would stop that,also it sometimes is good to be reassured that a seller is good?, maybes some sort of good sellers/buyers section could be added where we can post after recievin the item or paynment,this could also have a bad seller/buyer section to warn users 
t


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## stevebeechTA

TTgreeny said:


> wallsendmag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stevebeechTA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. We pay for ttoc membership each year or two or whatever, could this not be linked to the for sale part of the forum, as in you cant sell or buy till you have paid up for membership.
> 
> 
> 
> Only problem with this is although we work closely together we are two seperate bodies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dont think that would be any good,unless you have the cars for sale section seperate,plus the forums for evryone not just ttoc members lets not try an make it for the elitists  i couldn't really see a problem with the forsale section,i've seen a few over priced items that have been advertised,these have been pointed out by people in the know which is stoppin members from gettin ripped off,a no chit chat rule would stop that,also it sometimes is good to be reassured that a seller is good?, maybes some sort of good sellers/buyers section could be added where we can post after recievin the item or paynment,this could also have a bad seller/buyer section to warn users
> t
Click to expand...

Thats why i put the second option of paying a £10 donation to the site. The good/bad seller/buyer section is an ace idea though.

As for pricing i have not got a clue what's a good price or not. so peeps saying if its a fair price aint a bad thing so long as its done in a fair and decent manner, ie send the seller a pm and give them a chance to alter the price. as i personally dont wont to pay over the ods for stuff.


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## Wallsendmag

Do you think its worth having a template for car sales in the For Sale section there always seems to be something missing from ads


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## CamV6

Is it just me but is the FS section not now reaaly boring. Just bare details, no additional info from enquiries, no relevant discussion. [smiley=zzz.gif] [smiley=help.gif] [smiley=book2.gif]


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## KammyTT

its doing my head in cam...... i tried to update a for sale item this morning but couldnt even post reply!!!!

is there any news on a change yet?


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## Ikon66

KammyTT said:


> its doing my head in cam...... i tried to update a for sale item this morning but couldnt even post reply!!!!
> 
> is there any news on a change yet?


if it's your item for sale just click the edit button and update it


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## KammyTT

but it will still be 3 pages down and nobody is going to see the new lower price :wink:

when you gonna let me mod the for sale section then :roll:


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## Nem

KammyTT said:


> but it will still be 3 pages down and nobody is going to see the new lower price :wink:
> 
> when you gonna let me mod the for sale section then :roll:


But that would technically be classed as bumping which has not been allowed for a long time in the for sale section rules.

You are only meant to edit your top advert post and not keep replying with updates.


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## triplefan

Surely a change in details i.e. a new lower price would qualify for a bump.

Otherwise just pull the ad and post a new one, which goes back to the top anyway.


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## KammyTT

Nem said:


> KammyTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> but it will still be 3 pages down and nobody is going to see the new lower price :wink:
> 
> when you gonna let me mod the for sale section then :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> But that would technically be classed as bumping which has not been allowed for a long time in the for sale section rules.
> 
> You are only meant to edit your top advert post and not keep replying with updates.
Click to expand...

adding new details is NOT a bump! im lowering the price, ill just have to make a new thread.


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## triplefan

triplefan said:


> Surely a change in details i.e. a new lower price would qualify for a bump.
> 
> Otherwise just pull the ad and post a new one, which goes back to the top anyway.


 :roll: :roll:


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## KammyTT

triplefan said:


> triplefan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Surely a change in details i.e. a new lower price would qualify for a bump.
> 
> Otherwise just pull the ad and post a new one, which goes back to the top anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> :roll: :roll:
Click to expand...

i was agreeing with you


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## triplefan

Oh how I wish I could say this was overpriced :roll:

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=148189#p1518792


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## Guest

triplefan said:


> Oh how I wish I could say this was overpriced :roll:
> 
> viewtopic.php?f=41&t=148189#p1518792


here's you chance 

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=148195


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## Nem

I'm still not seeing the problem with someone advertising something which you decide is overpriced.

Do you look through Piston Heads classifieds (or similar) and send the sellers an email for every overpriced advert? No, so why do you think you would on here, whats the difference?


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## Guest

This is supposed to be a community


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## Nem

Indeed, but anyone thats part of this community will already know it's overpriced...


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## Guest

Guess it's just human nature!

In fact i have been known to message sellers on Ebay selling overpriced cars. God knows why.

People trying to rip people off is just damn annoying! :lol:


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## Wallsendmag

Everything will find its own price in the marketplace :wink:


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## skiwhiz

Nem said:


> Indeed, but anyone thats part of this community will already know it's overpriced...


Just a small point though Nick, someone new to the site looking to buy can be misled by some of the claims some of these sellers make (those who join just to sell) like rare colours and misleading claims, which when you don't know better can make a car sound special and worth a premium.
Is there a role for the mods to manage some of these claims ?


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## triplefan

There is also the (slim)possibility that some people genuinely do not know what their item is worth, and have overpriced it inadvertently, and welcome the heads up


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## CamV6

I dont see what is wrong with saying something is overpriced per se provided its done in the right sort of way, that's all. We all see things on e-bay that we think are overpriced and we probably would comment there too if it was a discussion board as opposed to an auction board.

still not liking it. I can see the merit in the concept of no reply insofar only as the list of threads works/runs/flows better BUT by the same token the more interesting threads/items or threads with multiple items would stay more visible.

It worked fine before - provided each thread is carefully moderated and unhelpful/inappropriate replies removed but then again that's a lot of vigilance and effort in busy lives.

I dunno, the more I think about it I see merit and demerit in either choice equally. Certainly, if there are no replies there can be no trouble of an unnecessary argument 'type' I guess.


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## jamal

This is gay, i've got my car for sale on here and i haven't put pics of it up which many people wanted to see, its now on page 3 and its not really going to be looked at now by the people who were waiting for my pics to come up. Its not really a bump in my case just wanted it to go back to the top to show the updated add with fresh pics of the car :?

Make mine a sticky and i'll be willing to pay for that


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## Nem

We're obviously going to have to discuss a new rule about how many posts or how often posts can be made advertising the same item.


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## KammyTT

whatever happens this no reply rule has to change nick......... its just a pain iin the arse!


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## kmpowell

KammyTT said:


> whatever happens this no reply rule has to change nick


Why? It seems to be working fine to me as is. No mindless chat or people sticking their oar in where it's not wanted, and primarily hardly any adverts have needed editing since the new rule came into play because people realise that an incomplete ad is going to put people off contacting. Moving forward this new rule will only spur people on to create more informed and detailed adverts, which is a win win situation is it not?

:?


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## stevebeechTA

As a newbie on here i would not mind if i put somthing up and some one said it was over priced. As long as it was done in a constructive way and a chance given for it to be corrected before other peeps jump on the band wagon. At the same time i would also appreciate it if some one said that an item is over priced as although i am a member, I am new and not 100% on the prices of things at the mo. As manphibian said this is a community and we should look out for each other.

I dont know how long you have to be a member on here but there seems to be allot of peeps selling cars on here that have only a few posts.

just my opinion, peep's  and its like an ass hole, every one has one :lol:


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## KammyTT

from a mod/admin point of view its great, have you tried to sell snything since its started kev?

i have and its a pain in the bum! ive had so many more pm`s than usual plus i could not advertise my new lower price.

its better in some ways but definatly from a seller point of view. just my opinion


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## stevebeechTA

cant agree more!

From a buyers point of view, especially if you know nowt like me, some times the answers to questions are in the replies from other members, so you can say "yes i will have it" withought messing the seller about asking stuff that he/she has prob answer hundred times.

Seeing who is interested gives fluidity and clarity to the item up for sale and benefits all. The only peeps that gain from this new system is the ones that does not wont potential criticism for whatever reason.

steve


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## KammyTT

thats exactly what i was trying to say stevie boy


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## kmpowell

KammyTT said:


> ive had so many more pm`s than usual


You've not said what thos ePMs are about - but if it's general queries, then perhaps you need to add more detail to your adverts...



KammyTT said:


> plus i could not advertise my new lower price.


Edit your original post by clicking the edit button - job done.


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## KammyTT

if i edit the post how will people know if its far down the list? i dont want to have to make a duplicate post just to point out the price change etc.

this is just one of the reasons i dont like the no post rule..... i also really miss reading posts on items for sale, half the time i didnt have to ask a question as it was already asked and some things i hadnt thought of were posted up.

the for sale section is (was) one of the best parts of the forum 

im not saying my opinion is the correct one im just pointing it out.


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## TTgreeny

its pretty kack like this,especially when i've enquired about 2 items for sale an not had a reply,maybes the sellers sold um an cant be arsed to update the advert,either way i feel like i'm wastin my time sendin out pms when the item could have been sold,at least when you could reply you can see how many people are interested etc,

i'm with the prefer it as it was crew,maybes we should put it to a forum vote?


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## Nem

TTgreeny said:


> its pretty kack like this,especially when i've enquired about 2 items for sale an not had a reply,maybes the sellers sold um an cant be arsed to update the advert,either way i feel like i'm wastin my time sendin out pms when the item could have been sold,at least when you could reply you can see how many people are interested etc,
> 
> i'm with the prefer it as it was crew,maybes we should put it to a forum vote?


But if you're getting no reply to a pm, then I can't see why you would get a reply on the thread either :?


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## KammyTT

it seems to me that the mod/admin team have already decided what they want :roll:

were only giving an opinion based on how we see it, you dont have to try and convince us otherwise.


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## Guest

x2 on an opinion poll.

Democracies > Dictatorships



EDIT:

in fact... i've done it 

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=148344


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## pjmedlam

I'm trying to buy something at the moment. PMed the guy a few days ago and then just silence with brushwood being blown by. You've no idea where people are with the sale, the old system gave you at least some idea of if somone had jumped in ahead of you. If they dont reply then have they sold it? are they away? have they changed their mind? you have no feel for whats going on. Extremely frustrating.


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## Guest

Time to end the 'trial' yet? It's clearly not popular.


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## Hark

Just my 2p

Preferred the old way. I can see where your coming from, but the negatives far out weigh the positives in my eyes.

It needs careful moderation , but other information from members can be useful.

I might say I'm interested, but then I get a pm off someone saying it's dodgy or something I don't know or it won't fit etc.

On the nasty side 6 months ago I pmed about some wheels for sale, the pictures he sent me I found on google images so something was dodgy. I replied in the thread and also pmed the other people who had shown interest. If I had pmed mods it might have not been looked at for a day or two and someone might have lost £200.

Bring back the old system.

Having to create a new ad because you lowered your price is ridiculous.


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## southTT

This does not work- its a massive step back as forums go.
cheers
jon


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