# M5's Dead!! (Alive Now)



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Got my M5 back after her 1st service & with a new set of rear tyres, all good & was looking forward to my 230 mile drive from Home to Camberley this morning. Was making great progress when all of a sudden the Red Cog of Death appeared on the display.

It stated that a Transmission fault had occured & i should take care, possible loss of acceleration & should get to a dealer when possible. It did not state "stop the fcuking car now".

I carry on my journey putting the car under no pressure & when 5 miles away from my destination on the busiest road in Bracknell (A322 trunk rd joining M4 & M3) in the rush hour (7:40 this morning) i feel a jolt in stop start traffic & the car died (proper died). I could not restart the car as although the display was saying Neutral the car was actually in 1st (S5). No matter what i tried the car would not start & i was blocking the 2nd lane of a very busy dual carriageway.

The police were called as i was causing a major tailback & BMW assist stated the car could not be moved without their assistance, the problem with this was the police said if BMW could not confirm assistance would arrive within 20mins then given the danger they would have to force recovery.

Needless to say BMW Assist could not get to me quickly enough & the Police forced a recovery onto a low-loader. The car has been taken to a delaer in Sunningdale & a nice Ford Mondeo provided me by some rental firm by request of BMW Assist.

It's now not even possible to move the gear selector so i'm failry sure this is a terminal SMG problem & a new Gearbox will be required (should gget the diagnosis later today).

I've spoken with BMW Customer Services & kinda wish given the car broke down only 3 miles from BMW GB HQ, i'd depositied the car with them. I will be seeking compensation of some sort from BMW & i'm just glad i was not in the 3rd lane of a motorway when this happened.

I'm shocked, angry, embarrassed. This is crazy that a car Â£70K car can break down in such spectacular fashion & in such a dangerous position/situation.

Had my 5mins of fame as given the 8mile tailback i caused, i made local radio & the local TV.

Will update when i know more.


----------



## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

Sorry to hear that, very frustrating when ure pride and joy plays up! At least there was'nt an accident.

Im not being flippant but, imagine all the comments from drivers in the cars behind you, I dont even need to give any examples do I. I think the words Drivers, BMW, Flash, M5, Bloody, Germans may have appeared in there tho. :wink:


----------



## jdn (Aug 26, 2002)

Bummer. Dangerous also.

I hope they don't try to blame the DMS... :?


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Nightmare Paul. I hope all is resolved.

My thoughts did turn to the DMS code and any knock-on effect that might have on gear box electronics, but I would guess that you would want to keep that offline (HINT :wink: )

Any sense of other M5 drivers having had any similar issues?

On positive side, BMW customer services have in my experience been very good - far, far better than Audi. I hope they give you good service on this occasion.

Fingers crossed.


----------



## TSCN (May 23, 2006)

Just reading last night in the M6 post (I think) how reliable the SMG gear boxes are and how they never go wrong. I feel for you though, horrible when it happens, especially as leg said, to your pride and joy. Hope it all gets sorted soon mate.

Tom


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Leg said:


> Sorry to hear that, very frustrating when ure pride and joy plays up! At least there was'nt an accident.
> 
> Im not being flippant but, imagine all the comments from drivers in the cars behind you, I dont even need to give any examples do I. I think the words Drivers, BMW, Flash, M5, Bloody, Germans may have appeared in there tho. :wink:


Yep, witnessed many of those & who can blame them as i'd probably held them up on their journeys for an extra 30mins to an hour 

Even worse i did get a few offers of assistance to push the car to the side of the road with of course a few sniggers, but had to respond that the car is stuck in gear & pushing is fruitless. Very annoying & very embarassing.


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> Nightmare Paul. I hope all is resolved.
> 
> My thoughts did turn to the DMS code and any knock-on effect that might have on gear box electronics, but I would guess that you would want to keep that offline (HINT :wink: )
> 
> ...


Gary,

Their have been enough issues with SMG gearboxes that BMW will not want any further publicity so no worries on the DMS front. If terminal they will just swap the SMG box out.

I'm hearing more & more of stock M5's gearboxes failing. Was pretty much confined to SMG I for sometime then some SMG II's started failing & now it's affecting SMG III's. Most i've heard of are in cars with 10K miles or more not very new cars.

BMW C/S have been good so far, hire car was waiting at the dealers before me & the car arrived. I've told them i'll be expecting some compo of some description, just need to decide what.


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Update,

Sytner have called to state it defo won't be a quick fix. They seem to think it's either total failure according to the codes, but could not confirm without further investigation. One code was total loss of SMG Hydraulic pressure so no idea how that's occured given the car only left my local dealers on Monday following it's 15K service & this morning was the 1st time it left my garage.

My car is being transported from Sytner Sunningdale back up to Halliwell Jones (my local & the supplying dealer), as i want the car closer to home & Sytner can't even start investigating for a week or so. Made me laugh that BMW Assist stated it would be transported on a covered transporter, as they don't want the public to see a broken down M5 on the back of a recovery truck (neither does the cars feckin owner) 

I'd guess the car will be off the road for 2-4wks, so it's already started me thinking if i want to stick with the M5 for reliability reasons.

To top it all, Judith's A4 Cab was collected by it's new owner yesterday as i'd have rather run round in that.

Hey ho


----------



## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

Unfortunately I'm not especially surprised at the reliability. On the E60 forum, that I know you frequent, there are constant niggles that are often linked to the higher technology aspects of the car. I feel that BMW in their rush to develop and integrate the latest technology into their cars are often caught a little short in the debugging phase of development. The E60's I-drive and on-board control systems that have been around for about 4 years now are still being debugged, the current version of the software is 23.xx so that implies a fairly substantial change every 2 months!

My own E60 that is about 4 months old has been subject to 2 safety recalls and so far one fairly major warranty issue (new turbo) and I feel another coming on.

Luckily, as previously mentioned, BMW Customer Services are very good. I hope everything goes ok for you and you don't get too dissillusioned with the make, I was surprised when you bought the M5, knowing how unhappy you were at some aspects of the service you received with the 535dA.


----------



## Rogue (Jun 15, 2003)

Sorry to hear about your problems, Paul.
ANY car breaking down can be frustrating and embarrassing but, as you've said, for it to happen on a Â£70k motor is totally un-acceptable.

I'd be suspicious of the fact that it was OK until it had it's service.

Rogue


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

ag said:


> Unfortunately I'm not especially surprised at the reliability. On the E60 forum, that I know you frequent, there are constant niggles that are often linked to the higher technology aspects of the car. I feel that BMW in their rush to develop and integrate the latest technology into their cars are often caught a little short in the debugging phase of development. The E60's I-drive and on-board control systems that have been around for about 4 years now are still being debugged, the current version of the software is 23.xx so that implies a fairly substantial change every 2 months!
> 
> My own E60 that is about 4 months old has been subject to 2 safety recalls and so far one fairly major warranty issue (new turbo) and I feel another coming on.
> 
> Luckily, as previously mentioned, BMW Customer Services are very good. I hope everything goes ok for you and you don't get too dissillusioned with the make, I was surprised when you bought the M5, knowing how unhappy you were at some aspects of the service you received with the 535dA.


Most if not all of the 535d issues were specific dealer related. Evertime it went in for minor warranty work etc. the car came back with a fresh problem. Overall the car was very good.

My M5 came from a different dealer & to date their service has been excellent & that's where my car is being transported to today (thank god).

I am however starting to get concerned as you state about the reliability of these cars. Too often i hear of SMG issues & these in the main mean 2-4wks off the road, followed by many miles of (when will this happen again) motoring which is not something i like. When the gearbox fialed on my RS6, it did tarnish the experience from then on.


----------



## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> already started me thinking if i want to stick with the M5 for reliability reasons.


I can understand this.

It's not as if you change cars very often, so you shouldn't beat yourself up over it if you do decide to move on.

I'd love to own an M5 but we are starting to hear stories about the various hi-tech aspects being less than reliable. I guess that something older and proven might give you better peace of mind?

The proven, older-tech turbocharged V6 in the Noble comes with a simple manual gearbox, unlikely to go wrong in this way. Mind you it didn't win engine of the year and doesn't have 4 seats. Alternatively of course there is the Monaro with its ancient V8 and lack of hi-technology, plus manual gearbox. Unlikely to leave you red faced.

I don't think you have any issues getting the box replaced. As you say there is a good chance BMW will not want bad publicity. If they can supply proof that the DMS map is responsible, I can't see DMS leaving you high and dry. After all, you could do serious damage to their business if wronged.


----------



## r1 (Oct 31, 2002)

Sorry to hear this Paul,

is this the first problem you've had with the M5? If so I think, in your shoes, I'd be inclined to keep it and put it down as a 1st strike. 1 more and I'd be out.

It's of interest to me as I'm collecting a CSL on Saturday that, as you know, comes with the SMGII box....it's under warranty still but still. :/

As an aside, the gearbox failed on my 996 the month before I sold it - luckily I'd taken out the extended warranty and thus avoided the Â£8.5k bill.


----------



## Rogue (Jun 15, 2003)

r1 said:


> and thus avoided the Â£8.5k bill.


Ouch! :?

Rogue


----------



## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

Sorry to hear what happened Paul. I would think worse blocking the traffic rather than the fact the car actually braking down. Can imagine it would be very embarressing. I dare say the RS4's will reveal a common fault before long. Just hope im on a quiet road somewhere if mine decides to pack up.


----------



## DW225 (Jun 22, 2005)

genocidalduck said:


> Sorry to hear what happened Paul. I would think worse blocking the traffic rather than the fact the car actually braking down. Can imagine it would be very embarressing. I dare say the RS4's will reveal a common fault before long. Just hope im on a quiet road somewhere if mine decides to pack up.


You can always call for a cab if it does break down though m8 :wink:


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Carlos said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > already started me thinking if i want to stick with the M5 for reliability reasons.
> ...


*LOL* at the funny bits "not as if you change your cars often" :lol:

Once the initial shock wears off (as it did when the RS6's box failed) i'll no doubt accept my car back & i'm positive BMW will come good with warranty, service, comp & hire car etc. (they're gonna try to swap me out of the Mondeo & into a more acceptable BMW on Saturday). It will leave a bad taste in my mouth for a while & as the number of SMG failures increases, this does not provide that fell good factor you want froma premium brand/car.

However i'll suck it & see for now. After all we're still not 100% sure of exactly what's wrong with the car, what could have caused it & what the fixes are. Looks likely to be a full SMG replacement but not 100% sure yet. I should full details tomorrow.


----------



## ObiWan (Sep 25, 2005)

Sorry to hear about this Paul, made my own arse twitch more than most :?

I must admit I thought long and hard about the technology before taking the leap myself but when its all working.............. well :!: :!: :!:

I hope its an isolated incident for you and they can do something about the four weeks.


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

ObiWan said:


> Sorry to hear about this Paul, made my own arse twitch more than most :?
> 
> I must admit I thought long and hard about the technology before taking the leap myself but when its all working.............. well :!: :!: :!:
> 
> I hope its an isolated incident for you and they can do something about the four weeks.


Let's hope so Barry. I spoke with Mike at DMS a few mins ago & as you'd expect, they'll be stepping up to the plate if & when required (he mentioned you'd been in touch). At the very least they'll be needed to re-apply the mapping when i get the car back (no charge for this).

Fingers crossed all goes well.


----------



## ObiWan (Sep 25, 2005)

W7 PMC said:


> ObiWan said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to hear about this Paul, made my own arse twitch more than most :?
> ...


Nice to hear that DMS will respond so well, Mike sounded like a genuine guy and enthusiast.

Like you say BMW are renowned for standing by their products, the sooner you are back on the road the better for everybody concerned......... even your 8 mile queue of admirers :wink:


----------



## thejepster (Mar 29, 2005)

Fingers crossed for you Paul - good news about DMS looking after you [smiley=thumbsup.gif] if things go pear shaped with BMW... :?

Having read that house build blog that was posted on here a few days ago and the musician (a petrolhead too by the sounds of things! ) who had a run-in with BMW wrt his gearbox/flywheel/clutch going on his E46 M3 after a track day, I hope they come good for you and discount the map if indeed it's a SMG issue...


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

thejepster said:


> Fingers crossed for you Paul - good news about DMS looking after you [smiley=thumbsup.gif] if things go pear shaped with BMW... :?
> 
> Having read that house build blog that was posted on here a few days ago and the musician (a petrolhead too by the sounds of things! ) who had a run-in with BMW wrt his gearbox/flywheel/clutch going on his E46 M3 after a track day, I hope they come good for you and discount the map if indeed it's a SMG issue...


Re remap will be FOC. It's one of DMS's selling points. BMW have a habit of flashing the engine ECU when doing major software upgrades or bigger repairs which then wipes the DMS code, so DMS will always re-do the work FOC.

My car has just arrived back at my local & the supplying dealers in Warrington, so will know tomorrow what the fault, cause & fix are.


----------



## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> thejepster said:
> 
> 
> > Fingers crossed for you Paul - good news about DMS looking after you [smiley=thumbsup.gif] if things go pear shaped with BMW... :?
> ...


And if the fault *is* due to the remap? What then...


----------



## The Silver Surfer (May 14, 2002)

Sorry to hear of your troubles, Paul.

Having a car break down on you is not a nice experience. Having it break down in rush hour traffic can be a nightmare.

I went through a similar situation when my (2nd) coil pack went in the TT. This happened in very busy rush hour traffic on a cold winters morning.

Thankfully, I was still able to drive the car and managed to dive up a side street and off the main road.

This was the second time, within the space of a few months, I had to watch the TT being loaded onto a low loader.

Ok, my TT wasn't Â£70k, however it was still the best part of Â£30k and was less than a year old when all this happened.

I lost faith in the car (and Audi) after this and eventually got rid of it.

Here's hoping for a positive outcome for you.

Regards

A


----------



## TVR_Man (May 21, 2002)

What a nasty experience. Hope it gets fixed quickly (come on BMW, just stick a new gearbox and gubbins in).

I've never broken down like that before, must be horrid having everyone stare at you. I'm also glad I didn't go into the office this morning as I would have been caught in your little jam.


----------



## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Bad luck I guess.

Keep it when it comes back and enjoy. Don't let it ruin your fun.

I have never in my life had a car broken down like this in my life. I had cooling problems in my old Lancia but it kept moving.


----------



## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> [
> And if the fault *is* due to the remap? What then...


I personally don't think Pauls problem is whether the cars breakdown was due to the map or not, the problem I forsee is BMW refusing to honour any warranty work on the car if they discover it's been 'fettled', regardless if it was the maps fault or not.

Unless DMS are willing to honour any costs BMW refuse to pay (and from what I read BMW will refuse without hesitation!), then Paul could be staring down the barrell of a big bill.

From my limited expeience and knowledge of BMW (just what I read on interent forums, and freinds experiences at dealers), nearly everything is done electronically these days. So if they can book a 06 3 series cab in for a service by just using the key to retrieve all yours (and the cars) details, then they should be able to find a map with ease. Paul if I were you, i'd get those fingers crossed that BMW don't do any digging around your ECU when they do the full diagnostic.


----------



## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Well I hope it all works out... I'm sure DMS will come up trumps, even if BMW don't like it.


----------



## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

I don't think DMS can afford to leave him high and dry.

Who would use them if something like that got out - just a whiff of "DMS remap killed my gearbox, no comeback" would be enough to dent their business badly.

Of course there is no suggestion that the map is at fault.


----------



## ObiWan (Sep 25, 2005)

Spoke with DMS myself and they are adament that BMW will not be able to detect. So fingers crossed


----------



## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

My understanding is that most remap code cannot be identified....?


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

...DMS have to break the ECU seals to squirt in code.

Shouldn't be that hard to notice, if they are that way minded.

Hopefully for Paul (as I am sure he would rather the support of BMW Munich rather than _have to_ rely DMS Andover) this will not prove be an issue in the demise of the gearbox or the failiure.

It could actually be something quite simple - flash the MG firmware etc.


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

r1 said:


> Sorry to hear this Paul,
> 
> is this the first problem you've had with the M5? If so I think, in your shoes, I'd be inclined to keep it and put it down as a 1st strike. 1 more and I'd be out.
> 
> ...


Are you getting extra warranty on CSL Dave?

Good choice for driving BTW - although not as charismatic a drive as the 996.


----------



## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Oh sorry to hear about this Paul. Hopefully it will just be a simple problem like an ecu reflash needed. But i do think that BMW will 'know' that the ecu's been tweaked :wink: whether or not they use that as a get out clause if if turns out to be mechanical and consequently more expensive, remains to be seen.

Must have been a bit scary though breaking down in those circumstances. The last time something similar happened to me was whilst i was in my firenza and the points lead fell out of the distributor. A 30 second fix!

Lets hope its fixed and it doesn't happen again. Can do not good for BMWs image. (weren't you concerned by image  )

Like others have said, a Monaro is beautifully simple (a gear stick, clutch, and six hefty gears) so far mine hasn't missed a beat after 2 1/2 years and 25k miles. Somehow i doubt you'll change your car again, after such a short time (although i wouldn't be surprised :lol: ) but you mentioned that you might have a look at the Monaro - the VXR 500 (and 600 :wink: ) has equal, and in in the case of the 600, more bhp than the M5 - and it's half the price :roll:


----------



## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

Stu

Manufacturers can see remaps, they are not hard to detect.

A Tuner is not going to say 'oh yes they can see them' when asked are they? Sales would be down by about 50%.

Its your average franchise Tech that doesn't look that hard. If BMW suspect a remap is at fault the ECU's will be examined closely enough to find it. But even then they may not reject the claim, so fingers crossed for you Paul.

(The above is info from a reliable industry source)


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

Dealers just don't have the kit to suck the code off an ECU. Of course, they can always send it back to Bosch, but that's a whole load of effort...


----------



## TVR_Man (May 21, 2002)

Of course all this info being on a public forum (even if its a TT forum) might not help if a few BMW employees surf the interweb while eating their sarnies.

I do hope you've removed any reference to 'enhancements' from any BMW forum postings. Even then, Google can be very clever - a google on your login name reveals your TT forum presence.


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Can i just say again & i do appreciate peoples concern.

Firstly DMS have already said they'll step up to the mark should they be required to (highly unlikley they'll be required to though). They know they'd be foolish not to & without appearing to blow my own trumpet, i've spent a good few Â£Â£'s with them, but more importantly sang their praises on the relevant forums & probably directly or indirectly sent them well over 30 customers over the last 9 months.

DMS have also clearly stated that only a proper software/developer guru based at BMW HQ could have even have half a chance of finding this code, it does not show up when the car is simply plugged into the Diagnostice machine (fact). If it was so easy to trace then most tuners would have no business & no software code to sell. Also BMW have suffered many SMG failures across the range & i'd bet you 95% are stock cars so the last thing they'd want is a another public humiliation, they will want my car replaced & back on the road & for me to be a happy BMW customer once again.

I of course hope my situation does not end in a battle but i'm 99.9% confident it won't. Finally Audi C/S & Audi in general do not match in my experience to date BMW's levels of service & Audi had no issue replacing the gearbox on my RS6 & that car was very obviously modified, in fact their technicians had to speak with Sportec regarding the Intercoolers as re-fitting them when the engine was removed to replace the gearbox was not in their workshop manuals :lol:

I've got my fingers crossed, but i'm not unduly worried.

Thanks again & i'll keep you updated as events roll out.


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

omen666 said:


> Stu
> 
> Manufacturers can see remaps, they are not hard to detect.
> 
> ...


Damon,

Whilst i agree to a point, lets please not group every tuners code in the same basket. Of course the source may have direct connections but the input & install is not the same across tuners. DMS code has been tested on BMW equipment & was not detected (BMW Magazine article). Of course perhaps as Clive states, if the ECU was returned to the manufacturer then i'm sure one of their techies could find the code but they'd have to take the ECU to bits to stand a chance. Also the M5 as with most E60's has many many ECU's (17 IIRC) & it's only the engine main control ECU that has the code. The gearbox ECU is un-touched by DMS as the torque limits are handled by the Engine ECU.


----------



## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

I do believe you have just paraphrased what I said and your agreeing with me.


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

omen666 said:


> I do believe you have just paraphrased what I said and your agreeing with me.


Yes but :wink:

Not all code is detectable or un-detectable in the same way so some are very very difficult to detect & some are much more obvious.

Also BMW themselves could according to industry experts not detect a DMS re-map, however i'm sure their ECU manufacturer could, but i've never heard of that level of investigation.

Let's hope all goes well 

Perhaps a new S8 is on the cards :wink:


----------



## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

Seems a point has been overlooked here. Am i the only one who thinks its odd it buggers after being collected from a service?
many a horror story out there pertaining to same, could be the tech has fooked it up.
Regarding DMS, sure if the code is changed it can be detected, ECU's contain writeable memory and so can be flash counted by a simple Â£40 reader, believe this is porsche's way of ascertaining if its been played before entering a more thorough level of diagnostics.


----------



## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

I know the VW dealers check the 'checksum' which i think is the amount of times the ECU is accessed if they suspect anything, Although i think this is clearly a completly different kettle of fish,

Hope all go's well and swiftly


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

ronin said:


> Seems a point has been overlooked here. Am i the only one who thinks its odd it buggers after being collected from a service?
> many a horror story out there pertaining to same, could be the tech has fooked it up.
> Regarding DMS, sure if the code is changed it can be detected, ECU's contain writeable memory and so can be flash counted by a simple Â£40 reader, believe this is porsche's way of ascertaining if its been played before entering a more thorough level of diagnostics.


Has crossed my mind, however the service was only an oil change & nothing more major mechanically was done (as far as i know).

As for the detection, all the ECU's are read & accessed every time the car is plugged into diagnostics which as we all know happens many many times on our cars, so one extra access by DMS will be swallowed up with the many others that dealers do. I know they'll be flashing the ECU very soon & well before the SMG box comes out, so bottom line which i was avoiding mentioning is that before any chance of a more detailed investigation, they will wipe DMS off anyhow. Standard BMW practice when investigating a major fault is to flash all the relevant ECU's to see if this full system reset resolves the problem :lol:


----------



## omen666 (Oct 10, 2004)

Either way Paul, its horrible when things go wrong with the car you own, so symphathies for that and I hope it all resolves well for you


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

omen666 said:


> Either way Paul, its horrible when things go wrong with the car you own, so symphathies for that and I hope it all resolves well for you


Cheers Damon,

Think i'll buy a Focus LX & save vast sums on depreciation, fuel, insurance & running/ownership costs. I'm sure the less complicated cars are far easier to live with & more reliable. To my mind the more money you spend on buying a car, all you're actually doing is signing up to a whole host of advanced potential problems.

I know i'll get slated but i'm of the mind that i may move away from the M5 far sooner than i initially intended. I can't see me being able to continue my relationship with the car, not often thinking when will the SMG fail again. Add to this the track days coming up, i'll hardly be driving with the confidence in the vehicle i'd had up until this SMG failure. The same scenario as my RS6, i was never as happy driving it after the Tiptronic was replaced, even though the car itself felt fine.

I'll just have to see how things play out.


----------



## DW225 (Jun 22, 2005)

Although it wasn't as expensive, or as complex a failure as the SMG, I felt exactly the same after my EVO 340 threw third and fourth piston through the block.....it was all rebuilt and run in but I had no confidence in the car after that. I really couldn't drive it as intended for the constant fear in the back of my mind that it was going to go again.

Sold it very soon after I'd run it in :?


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> omen666 said:
> 
> 
> > Either way Paul, its horrible when things go wrong with the car you own, so symphathies for that and I hope it all resolves well for you
> ...


Paul,

All cars can go wrong. Personally I think it is slightly more palettable to have a sophisticated bleeding edge technology car go wrong such as the M5, than a workaday car fail beacuse of cost cutting, quality and component supply. Such as VW with the myriad coil packs failiures.

I think that technicians have a greater interest in solving the former rather than the latter, which actually tend to controlled by accountants and procurement.

You aren't going to hear those words, "They all do that Sir!"

I am sure it will be resolved smoothly.


----------



## Jac-in-a-Box (Nov 9, 2002)

garyc said:


> its
> 
> You aren't going to hear those words, "They all do that Sir!"


No, but you'll probably hear "never seen this problem before Sir"

Hope it all gets sorted in a pain free fashion Paul  Breaking down on a busy road at the wrong time of day can be a royal PIA...happened to me coming out of the Tyne Tunnel during the evening rush hour.
The looks I got were more of pity than looks the reserved for "the flash tw*t in a flash car" (I was in my beat up "works van" :lol: )

ps I don't regard you as a flash.... :wink:

Dave


----------



## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

Feel for you can't be nice having a car of this expense parked up at a BMW garage well any car that you have paid hard earned cash for :? I do recall you saying DMS have tuned something like 95% of all BWM M5's in this country so surely with a lot of these cars suffering this fault it would be easy for BMW to investigate to see if it was linked to DMS code.

Hope it all get sorted for you without any hassle


----------



## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Paul Clarkson 3 - Paul's transmission and gearboxes 0

TT Haldex
RS6 Gearbox
M5 whatever

What on earth do you do to these poor cars, Paul? :roll:


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jonah said:


> Feel for you can't be nice having a car of this expense parked up at a BMW garage well any car that you have paid hard earned cash for :? I do recall you saying DMS have tuned something like 95% of all BWM M5's in this country so surely with a lot of these cars suffering this fault it would be easy for BMW to investigate to see if it was linked to DMS code.
> 
> Hope it all get sorted for you without any hassle


Cheers.

The reference was regarding 535d's, not M5's. I think DMS have done about 10 M5's in the UK & about the same number in Europe. Also i think i quoted 50%ish, not 95%. Can you imagine if 95% of a particular model had been fettled :lol:


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> Paul Clarkson 3 - Paul's transmission and gearboxes 0
> 
> TT Haldex
> RS6 Gearbox
> ...


Good point mate, i forgot about the TT's Haldex,

Even had the geabox light on the Mondeo flicker this afternoon on the M6 & felt a strange grind down below (gearbox not pants). It appears it was only a flutter, but i was worried.

Got an update on what's happened & todays events, but got to shoot out to collect the kids. I'll post status later.


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

OK, got a few mins now so the update.

She was looked at extensively by Halliwell Jones this morning (local & supplying dealer) & the conclusion is the the SMG Hydraulic system totally failed. This being the reason the car would not start as a safeguard it can only be started in neutral with the foot brake applied, so as the car was locked down in 1st gear she was not going anywhere.

I'm satisifed for now that although about Â£2200 in parts to replace the SMG hydraulic system (no idea how much labour) it is not as serious or as big a job as i'd expected (full SMG replacement) so i'll see how things go & the dealer is hopeful the car will be ready by Wed/Thurs.

I do have some concerns relating to other possible extensive wear & tear or actual damage to the SMG box, as the 1st warning light appeared about 20miles before the car died, so if SMG was running all that time without hydraulics (it felt fine driving though) has this caused any lasting damage to the actual box?? Other similar symptoms (although perhaps not the exact same fault) from other M owners have resulted in the entire Gearbox & SMG Hydraulic system being replaced so i am nervous but the dealer knows to check the car thouroughly & as a plus i'll get the latest versions of software for all the cars systems/ecu's, as they will flash all the control units.

A bit of a pi$$er was that i managed to get away from my office in Camberley for 11:30 this morning for an expected clear Friday run up the M40/42/6 but upon getting to the Mundano hire car, i noticed it had a puncture in the rear passenger side tyre, so i had to limp to the local Quick-Fit to get it repaired. This meant i only left the South-East at 1PM & spent the next 6 hours doing a journey that normally takes 3 1/2 hours :evil: Hey ho, just guess i'm not having a lucky week with cars this week.

Did get offered a brand new un-registered Audi S8 as well today, fully loaded at about Â£16K off list price  . It got me thinking for a few seconds but i passed the opportunity up (for now :wink: ).


----------



## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > Paul Clarkson 3 - Paul's transmission and gearboxes 0
> ...


I'd not forgotten. I was in the car when you was demonstrating the lack of AWD!  :lol:

Fingers crossed. :wink:


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > jampott said:
> ...


Was great fun though  :lol:


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Okey dokey, after some frustrating phone calls with BMW UK & a delay in the new SMG Hydraulic System arriving from Germany, i now have my car back & boy does it feel good after driving that Mondy for 8days.

The new SMG Hydraulic System that's been fitted is a bang up to date version & according to BMW has some modifications over the original system that should make a repeat of the recent failure highly unlikely.

As a gesture of goodwill, they have offered me Â£563 cash, translated they will make my next Finance payment to BMW finance for me. Me thinks that's a fairly generous offer & they also confirmed that i can have 1 free CIP re-programme (the cars software programme which at every update much the same as most software programmes has enhancements & bug fixes etc.) on the car which i'll probably take with my next service although i'd possibly have got that for free anyhow if i'd shouted at the dealer.

Still i'm pretty happy with the overall result & above all i've got my car back & she's driving a touch smoother than before, so this uprated hydraulics system appears to do exactly what it says on the tin.

Back to DMS on Tuesday as the re-map has been wiped by the dealer (the performance decrease is more noticable than i imagined) & then it's back to full strength. Still got niggling doubts but some good runs at Nurburgring, Spa, Brands & Oulton Park should dismiss my worries.


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Glad all well Paul.

Now my week: put car in for oil change. Asked for battery check. Trace logs revealed all OK but problem with 'swirl actuation flap' on inlet manifold (???). Not there. Could drop into block and seize engine. Head off and internal examination today. No damage - having new inlet manifold fitted Mon. They were ready fora new engine. BMW Service tell me it may not have ever showed itself - but if it did it would have manifested itself as a terminal failiure.

They wouldnt let me have the 335ci for the weekend but I got a 535d se which is OK.

Cars eh? :wink:


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> Glad all well Paul.
> 
> Now my week: put car in for oil change. Asked for battery check. Trace logs revealed all OK but problem with 'swirl actuation flap' on inlet manifold (???). Not there. Could drop into block and seize engine. Head off and internal examination today. No damage - having new inlet manifold fitted Mon. They were ready fora new engine. BMW Service tell me it may not have ever showed itself - but if it did it would have manifested itself as a terminal failiure.
> 
> ...


Indeed Gary, who'd buy them.

Hope yours gets sorted soon. Let me know what you think of the 535d, they are great fun.

I had a mooch round the 335ci in the dealers today while i was waiting for mine to be brought round. On paper the car is awesome & i bet they're a real thrill to drive, but they just don't look special enough IMHO. Perhaps when they launch an M-Sport version the look may improve but i think the shape & design is not quite as nice as the current incarnation. Although i guess that new engine more than makes up for it & de-badged it would be a proper giggle in plain looking guise.


----------



## jdn (Aug 26, 2002)

Out of curiosity, why is this car a 'she' and not more masculine like 'the beast' that went before?


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > Glad all well Paul.
> ...


My thoughts exactly Paul re the 335Ci. I am an engine person so the TT M six appeals. The one I saw had 19" which improved things although still alittle bland around the rear. M sport should lift it as it does the 5 series. Plenty of room for 4 adults too -but then the last e46 coupe still has more rear room than an A4. :wink:

I was impressed by it's Auto Express run out against the superior RS4.

335i or 335d? One has a manual box. I may have to choose new co car soon...

The 535d se is a bit of a barge around town - all I have driven so far. Looks a bit awkward only on smaller wheels and without M sport kit. As do all the Bangle BMs. Probably a great cruiser tho and it suits the full slush auto box - which is very good too. Grunt wise it offers little more than a tuned 3 series 330d, which is still 'adequate' for most occasions :wink: . But the delivery is good. It's one of the best road car engines available in my narrow view. Let's hope i don't have to test it in a maternity ward dash this weekend...

I have to say that BMW service still impresses me. Even though my car has a fault - it was pre-empted and has been perfectly managed and with little disturbance to my routine. That's what premium car ownership is about.


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

TBH & i'm not defending BMW over Audi, but i think they have a huge hit on their hands with the 335D & 335i as they try to really capture that small-medium premium car market. They already outsell many lower pirce alternatives in their market & they keep coming back to offer more interesting alternatives.

I defo want to take both the petrol & diesel for a blast & i can only imagine what either car would be like to drive if breathed upon by DMS. The standard 335i has been timed round many tracks on a par with the current M3 so i can only imagine what the new M3 will be like 8)


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jdn said:


> Out of curiosity, why is this car a 'she' and not more masculine like 'the beast' that went before?


She is a beast, but for a few reasons i'd say she's tempremental & quite difficult to handle at times, so more akin to a woman :wink:


----------



## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> jdn said:
> 
> 
> > Out of curiosity, why is this car a 'she' and not more masculine like 'the beast' that went before?
> ...


If a woman is a beast it means she is fat and ugly. Consider changing gender. :wink:


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

vlastan said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > jdn said:
> ...


Well she is a bit tubby & not all like the Bangle look, so i think i've picked the right gender & desription. However she's a right goer & difficult to tame.


----------



## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> Not all code is detectable or un-detectable in the same way


Great stuff! This sounds exactly like the kind of thing I hear when I get (regularly) cold-called from the likes of F#ckwit Business Integration PLC.

Have you ever considered a career in software sales?


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Carlos said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > Not all code is detectable or un-detectable in the same way
> ...


Carl, I'm kinda already in Software Sales & i know Business Integration very well. They're trying to blag their way to becoming one of our Partners, in fact i had a meeting with them a few weeks ago. One of your assumptions about them is perhaps correct. :wink:


----------

