# Ideas, concerns, suggestions.



## les (Jul 24, 2006)

I was thinking (always a bad thing for me to do) That event 2010 is upon us and on the Saturday night we have the TTOC AGM. Now I am a firm believer that the club is the membership and that a committee is there to serve the interests of the club and its members. So with that in mind if you have any suggestions, concerns, ideas or believe you maybe able to help the club in anyway why not post here or to the committee. I am sure all suggestions are welcome after all you are only trying to help and this is the time to raise such. Same goes for the magazine as I know John H is always looking for articles or just bits and bobs. You don't need to write chapter and verse or even provide pic's a few lines to John or a whole article is always welcome. So why not add your bit now for the interest of all and support your club.


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

Really good idea for a post Les, but I think it may be sitting in the wrong section - hence the lack of responses.

As a NW based member I must admit I feel very well catered for in terms of meets/organised events, help when required, banter etc. How much of that is as a result of the TTOC I dont know, but certainly we have a decent rep - who can be a bit single minded but nevertheless is a thoroughly decent chap 

I have posted in the thread in the owners club section but I think the mag was crying out for an Alpina type article - however members who did not attend may just be thoroughly sick and tired of hearing about it lol


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Matt B said:


> Really good idea for a post Les, but I think it may be sitting in the wrong section - hence the lack of responses.
> 
> As a NW based member I must admit I feel very well catered for in terms of meets/organised events, help when required, banter etc. How much of that is as a result of the TTOC I dont know, but certainly we have a decent rep - who can be a bit single minded but nevertheless is a thoroughly decent chap
> 
> I have posted in the thread in the owners club section but I think the mag was crying out for an Alpina type article - however members who did not attend may just be thoroughly sick and tired of hearing about it lol


As always we can only print what we are sent. :?


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

wallsendmag said:


> Matt B said:
> 
> 
> > Really good idea for a post Les, but I think it may be sitting in the wrong section - hence the lack of responses.
> ...


I am sorry but that really doesnt wash with me. Your statement implies that you are powerless to determine the content of your magazine and quite frankly that demonstrates a total lack of accountability.

Did the TTOC approach any of the attendees for a write up? If not, then its hardly surprising that no one has put one forward.


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

I suppose the other thing to consider is that none of the recent trips abroad have been organised or run by the TTOC. We are certainly not powerless regarding the content of our own magazine, but we have to make sure there is a ballence of content in each issue. We normally have more event write up articles that we can fit in and it's other news, features and technical content we struggle to find.

Nick


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

Matt B said:


> Really good idea for a post Les, but I think it may be sitting in the wrong section - hence the lack of responses.
> 
> As a NW based member I must admit I feel very well catered for in terms of meets/organised events, help when required, banter etc. How much of that is as a result of the TTOC I dont know, but certainly we have a decent rep - who can be a bit single minded but nevertheless is a thoroughly decent chap
> 
> I have posted in the thread in the owners club section but I think the mag was crying out for an Alpina type article - however members who did not attend may just be thoroughly sick and tired of hearing about it lol


 What lack of responses :? Rather than post 2 separate threads I thought I would cover both in this one and I thought it best to put it in the events section perhaps with hindsight I could have split it and posted in different forums.

IMO I have been single minded when required to (matter of opinion of course) . EG. IMO (again) if somebody wishes to arrange a meet cruise or whatever they can hold it where ever they like. Now if others make suggestions for other venues then the originator does not have to change it as its his/her idea and arrange a cruise to where ever they want. People don't have to attend it if they don't wish to. Sometimes as a rep you have to make decisions that maybe unpopular with one or two and you cant please all of the people all of the time. That's the nature of the beast and I am not afraid to make such decisions if I think its in the majority's interest or wishes. I think in the time I have been the NW rep I/we have managed to strike the right balance maybe some think differently but if they do I have yet to hear different. 
Lets us not forget where the NW as a region was not that long ago and now it is probably the most active of all. Another thing I have done is ask for ideas and suggestions but even though few have been forthcoming we have managed to keep it fresh and do different things as we have with changing the recent monthly meet from the Sandpiper to the Millstone (not my idea BTW but the NW members). If I make an unpopular decision then I think the NW members are the kind that would take issue with me and I will always listen to those that do but it dose not mean it will change unless members wish it to. All in all the NW group is perhaps the best organised and run of all and members seem very happy with whats gone on before, I hope they continue to.


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

Nem said:


> I suppose the other thing to consider is that none of the recent trips abroad have been organised or run by the TTOC. We are certainly not powerless regarding the content of our own magazine, but we have to make sure there is a ballence of content in each issue. We normally have more event write up articles that we can fit in and it's other news, features and technical content we struggle to find.
> 
> Nick


Fair points, I can understand the fact that technical articles being harder to come by. I guess when people are working on their cars, the additional effort to get some pics can be a pain. I am sure someone will have written an Alpina article by the time the next issue surfaces - I would do it myself but I dont think I would be able to do it justice in between work/college/family commitments.


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

les said:


> What lack of responses :?


Errm, well at the time I responded to your thread over 50 people had looked at it, but no one had responded. Not sure what the confusion is there Les.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

wallsendmag said:


> As always we can only print what we are sent. :?


Or not... [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

Matt B said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> > What lack of responses :?
> ...


No confusion Matt but the odd bump or just one reply can often bring others to add their thoughts and comments :wink:


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## audimad (Jan 7, 2008)

Will NON members be allowed to the the AGM or is it members of the TTOC only?


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

audimad said:


> Will NON members be allowed to the the AGM or is it members of the TTOC only?


Non members are allowed in but cannot vote.


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## audimad (Jan 7, 2008)

IMHO non members shouldn't be allowed into the AGM.


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## Matt P (Jun 22, 2010)

Hi All,

As a non-member I appreciate that my comments may not be too meaningful here but I thought I might share a thought as I have been internally debating whether or not to become a TTOC member. I've been looking at the events section hoping to find some SW events but it does seem to be a tad quiet down this way, a lot of what I have seen seems to be NW/Midlands, the nearest places for me seems to be Bristol but I can't see much info on regular meets there.

This could be just my lack of searching power but certainly nothing is jumping out at me and encouraging me to become a member in this region. The main point for this case is the upcoming VW & Audi track day at Castle Combe on July 24th, I can't find any information about an organised club spot for TTOC. I may be missing the point and this is in hand but I haven't located it and that's disappointing. As a member of the e36Coupe forum we attend every action day and Castle Combe allow us all free entry on the basis that we park our cars in the allocated club area, the day is always fun regardless of whether 5 or 15 people make it and it's great to meet people really into their cars.

Attending that event with the BMW guys I always felt out of place as I don't have a passion for the car despite owning an e36 so on looking at joining TTOC I really hoped this event would be covered.

Again, i really don't intend any offense etc I just thought it would be appropriate to share my experience here.

More info on the event im referencing:
http://www.castlecombecircuit.co.uk/eve ... ventID=269

Thanks for reading.


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

Maybe in a busniess environment that would be true Jeff, but with regards to the club and what is actually a very socially orientated evening with the club auction and in company of good friends it makes no sense to limit the people attending.


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

Matt P said:


> More info on the event im referencing:
> http://www.castlecombecircuit.co.uk/eve ... ventID=269
> 
> Thanks for reading.


The main problem with this event is that it always falls with in a week or two of our national event which we put such a huge amount of effort into. Particularly the committee but also the reps attending are usually ready for a well deserved break from club work for a while after July.

The other problem is the location, with the club traveling down for Audi Driver International in October I feel that one 3-4 hour trip down there a year is enough for us  On top of that from a personal note I really don't like castle combe as a track at all so I don't have any desire to take part. Also, I might be wrong here, but in pervious years it was always advertised as a VW day and not Audi which I can see it is this year.

Anyway, there is nothing stopping us having a stand there, but it would need someone to arrange it. You would be more than welcome to see if there was a spot for a TT stand and post up for people to join you. I would have thought there would be people who would take you up on it 

Nick


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## Matt P (Jun 22, 2010)

Thanks Nick, I understand your comments about the busy schedule.

I'll get in touch with CC and see if it's not too late to organise a spot and post a thread and see what response I get but in general I would still say that the SW is relatively quiet and I know there are a lot of TTs down here.


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## bigsyd (Jul 9, 2008)

Nem said:


> Maybe in a busniess environment that would be true Jeff, but with regards to the club and what is actually a very socially orientated evening with the club auction and in company of good friends it makes no sense to limit the people attending.


i was just thinking along the same lines,


> very socially orientated evening with the club auction and in company of good friends it makes no sense to limit the people attending.


 and there will be a few fresh faces this year


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

Matt P said:


> Thanks Nick, I understand your comments about the busy schedule.
> 
> I'll get in touch with CC and see if it's not too late to organise a spot and post a thread and see what response I get but in general I would still say that the SW is relatively quiet and I know there are a lot of TTs down here.


Well let me know how you get on, we'll get it added to the event listings where we can see if we can get some people along. 

Cheers.

Nick


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Matt B said:


> I am sorry but that really doesnt wash with me. Your statement implies that you are powerless to determine the content of your magazine and quite frankly that demonstrates a total lack of accountability.
> 
> Did the TTOC approach any of the attendees for a write up? If not, then its hardly surprising that no one has put one forward.


I'm not sure that's fair comment. Copy doesn't write itself - somebody has to do it and when it's generally left to a handful of people to fill the magazine it can be difficult. It's all voluntary, for starters. I write for other magazines and get paid for it and at my usual rates the stuff I've had printed in _absoluTTe_ so far would have earned me nearly £3000. I would have got £1000 from a single issue! That's how other magazines get their content and your criticisms could possibly be levelled at them, but _absoluTTe_ has no budget to pay for articles and it relies entirely on voluntary submissions. If people don't send stuff in then it's left to a small number of regulars to fill up the pages. And it's not like there hasn't been regular invitations for submissions.

Sure, you can ask that someone does a report for the Alpine tour but then perhaps everyone just assumes someone else is going to do it and it doesn't get done, and it's difficult to commision someone to do it when you can't offer payment.

The fact is the magazine is quite outstanding quality as far as periodicals for small, special interest groups go and perhaps rather easily taken for granted. Many other clubs are just sending out paper pamphlets.


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

Mark Davies said:


> Matt B said:
> 
> 
> > I am sorry but that really doesnt wash with me. Your statement implies that you are powerless to determine the content of your magazine and quite frankly that demonstrates a total lack of accountability.
> ...


Did you actually read what I had written, I made one simple point that has nothing to do with money. Quite frankly, whether you get paid for writing for magazines or not, is irrelevant to the point I made.
So I will make it again
If you dont ask - you don't get.
How difficult (or costly?) would it be to make a blanket request for a volunteer(s) to write a particular article on a particular subject? Had that request gone out, then maybe I would have been more willing to accept the defence that it was down to a lack of a volunteer rather than maybe the lack of insight to request that someone write an article on probably the most ambitious and significant TT event of the year (or any year as far as I can remember).


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## audimad (Jan 7, 2008)

Nem said:


> Maybe in a busniess environment that would be true Jeff, but with regards to the club and what is actually a very socially orientated evening with the club auction and in company of good friends it makes no sense to limit the people attending.


 Then really what is the point of being a member of the TTOC, when i was a member of Club Audi they only allowed members into the AGM as that was one of the reasons you paid your membership fee, non members were not allowed into the AGM so they could not have any input into how the club is run, if you wanted to sit in at the AGM then you pay your membership fee. I left that club as i didn't feel it was going anywhere but now the same feeling is happenning with the TTOC i mean all i can see for my money is the club mag and nothing else although no doubt someone will come on here and say "oh no" you get this and you get that. I am not not having a go at anyone it is just my opinion.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Yes Matt, I did read what you said but you seem to be missing the point. It's all well and good _asking_ for someone to write an article, but just because you ask doesn't mean it's going to get done, does it? People are either willing or they're not, but if you are in a position to offer payment (rather than just a polite 'please') then people tend to be rather more willing, don't they?

The point is,_ absoluTTe _is not in a position to offer payments which makes it very much more difficult for them to attract contributions in comparison with commercial publications, therefore to suggest the content is entirely in their hands when they are wholly reliant on voluntary input of copy is somewhat unfair.

Blanket requests _do_ go out - there's a whole thread for it. _Every_ issue of the magazine contains a request for submissions. What do you want them to do? Every single time there is an event, meeting or cruise anywhere in the country then send out a personal e-mail to everyone going asking if they'd be kind enough to write about it? I get your point that this was a big trip and deserved to be reported on, and that someone should have been lined up to write about it beforehand, however in addition to the regular pleas for general input it was mentioned on the forum more than once but nobody stepped up to the plate. With no budget the magazine can hardly send someone on the tour just to report on it, can they?

It's just human nature to stand by and let someone else do the work. No doubt those who went on the Alpine tour would love to see an article about it, but it seems nobody could be arsed doing it. I can't write it for them, I wasn't there. And neither was John. If those people want to see an article in print them someone who was actually on the trip simply has to pull their finger out and do it. Yes, it's a shame for those who didn't go and would like to read about it (myself included), but we can't put guns to people's heads - and the point I'm making, we can't even offer financial incentive. Ultimately if nobody wants to do it there really isn't much the magazine can do about it.

And I'll make the obvious but surely unecessary point - it's also human nature to stand back and then criticise other people's efforts. I've had a flick through the latest edition (and forgive me if I've been a bit lax) but I seem to have missed your contribution.

The message is simple. If there's something you really think ought to be in the magazine then don't leave it to someone else - take some personal responsibility and do it yourself. And if you think you have ideas about how better to get submissions then contact John - there's a job waiting for you. But it's not paid, of course!


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

audimad said:


> Then really what is the point of being a member of the TTOC


You only get to vote if you are a member, so while non-members are free to contribute with suggestions (and surely we shouldn't be excluding good ideas where they are offered?) they don't have any involvement with any decisions.


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## audimad (Jan 7, 2008)

Mark Davies said:


> audimad said:
> 
> 
> > Then really what is the point of being a member of the TTOC
> ...


 So i'm paying £30 a year so i can vote, big deal, what else.


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

audimad said:


> Nem said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe in a busniess environment that would be true Jeff, but with regards to the club and what is actually a very socially orientated evening with the club auction and in company of good friends it makes no sense to limit the people attending.
> ...


 So what so wrong in having your spouse with you they can't vote after all? Whats so secret anyway? What do I tell my girlfriend while the AGM is no "sorry love go and amuse yourself for the next few hours while we have the AGM"? Now you may think that's fine but I would much rather she was there with me observing but not partaking in any votes etc.
The old question of what do I get apart from a mag has been done to death many times and you will find lots of answer to that question so I am not going to repeat them as I and many have done so in the past.

IMO many are missing the point of the TTOC, it's a club not a subscription to a magazine and it's a non profit making one at that. I do what I can to contribute to both the club and the magazine but I don't expect any favours or pats on the back for it. I do so because I care like many on here who do similar things. I am the NW rep as you know, I get no freebies or discounts over what the rest of the membership get and that's fine. Fine also if you wish to pay your subs and sit back but it helps clubs like this to have a few (the more the merrier) to assist in what way they can. It cost to be a rep committee member in time and money and I am on a pension. Event10 will cost me quite a lot in petrol hotel and food etc but I'm not complaining or asking to be supported to do so. All I would like is for my girlfriend to be at my side at the AGM and I don't think that's a lot to ask.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

audimad said:


> Mark Davies said:
> 
> 
> > audimad said:
> ...


Are you coming along Jeff ? You'll need to be quick to buy your tick if you want to avoid the queue.


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

Mark Davies said:


> Yes Matt, I did read what you said but you seem to be missing the point. It's all well and good _asking_ for someone to write an article, but just because you ask doesn't mean it's going to get done, does it? People are either willing or they're not, but if you are in a position to offer payment (rather than just a polite 'please') then people tend to be rather more willing, don't they?
> 
> The point is,_ absoluTTe _is not in a position to offer payments which makes it very much more difficult for them to attract contributions in comparison with commercial publications, therefore to suggest the content is entirely in their hands when they are wholly reliant on voluntary input of copy is somewhat unfair.
> 
> ...


Mark, writing half a page of unrelated crap is no substitute for reading and more importantly understanding the dialogue that was taking place before you steamed in with both feet.

The train of the conversation went like this.

Me - I think the mag could have done with an Alpina article.

Wallsend - We can only publish what we are sent.

Me - Dont really buy that, you could have asked for/actively sought to find and article on Alpina

Then your point

Money, hard work, blanket requests, john H blah blah blah blah, sacrcasm, personal emails (yeah right), Oh how lazy everyone who went to Italy is, If I would have gone I could write the article, blah blah blah.

I think you are being highly judgemental with regard to all the Alpina goers, I can't believe you have got the cheek to say that as a group we just couldn't be arsed to do a write up - oh, unless we were offered money!?!?
Not like you eh Mark - But you quite often seem to reside in the moral high ground dont you.

My point still stands - A simple request for an Alpina goer to write something for the magazine would have not required a great deal of foresight. In fact if you now check the Alpina thread (since this discussion started on here) then Scouse has taken the proactive measure of asking for someone to do a write up, which I think Steve C has already responded to in a positive manner.

If you cant comprehend that any publication (regardless of budget) should be more proactive, and actively seek material (in a relevant and timely manner), then it is obviously pointless continuing this discussion. Now just re-read the first paragraph of your response and you may realise its YOU who have completely missed my point. You show me a thread, started by someone who is responsible for the delivery of the magazine, in a prominent part of the forum (and by that I mean either the Mk1 or Mk2 section), that has a request for an article to be written on the Italy trip, then I will concede the point. Otherwise, no matter what you say (and you do tend to say a lot), you cannot possibly defend that this issue of Absolutte would have been more current and interesting if it had an Alpina Article in it.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

There were comittee members and reps and members on the trip to Italy , they all are well aware that the mag needs articles. John H puts frequent reminders on this forum,and there is always a smalll bit in the mag how much more do we need to ask ?


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## LOWEY (Oct 3, 2009)

Hi all, not a memberof TTOC, but just a suggestion. We see forum members writing articles and ideas etc but we only have their names. Why don't you have an article on some of the forum / TTOC members with photos of them and their motors, including their jobs hobbies etc. Then when we see an artice etc written by that person we can relate to him or her. [smiley=book2.gif]

Cheers team!

Paul


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

paulnlowe said:


> Hi all, not a memberof TTOC, but just a suggestion. We see forum members writing articles and ideas etc but we only have their names. Why don't you have an article on some of the forum / TTOC members with photos of them and their motors, including their jobs hobbies etc. Then when we see an artice etc written by that person we can relate to him or her. [smiley=book2.gif]
> 
> Cheers team!
> 
> Paul


We do Paul, we have a members profile every month on the back page along with members names and forum names along side whatever they have written so I am not sure what you mean. :? This month features Richard George aka UKRPG. When I write its les aka ermm les. Also an article by Steve Law aka TT law and so on and so on.


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## LOWEY (Oct 3, 2009)

les said:


> paulnlowe said:
> 
> 
> > Hi all, not a memberof TTOC, but just a suggestion. We see forum members writing articles and ideas etc but we only have their names. Why don't you have an article on some of the forum / TTOC members with photos of them and their motors, including their jobs hobbies etc. Then when we see an artice etc written by that person we can relate to him or her. [smiley=book2.gif]
> ...


In that case please forget my suggestion!  Sorry all!

Paul. :roll:


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

paulnlowe said:


> Hi all, not a memberof TTOC, but just a suggestion. We see forum members writing articles and ideas etc but we only have their names. Why don't you have an article on some of the forum / TTOC members with photos of them and their motors, including their jobs hobbies etc. Then when we see an artice etc written by that person we can relate to him or her. [smiley=book2.gif]
> 
> Cheers team!
> 
> Paul


We do


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

wallsendmag said:


> paulnlowe said:
> 
> 
> > Hi all, not a memberof TTOC, but just a suggestion. We see forum members writing articles and ideas etc but we only have their names. Why don't you have an article on some of the forum / TTOC members with photos of them and their motors, including their jobs hobbies etc. Then when we see an artice etc written by that person we can relate to him or her. [smiley=book2.gif]
> ...


Is what I said above and he acknowledged:wink: Do try to keep up Andrew :lol:


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Can I stick my oar in here please? :roll:

I'm no longer a TTOC member so I'm seeing this as just a general punter on the forum. 

I think there is a general malaise amongst the TTOC. :? You ask for articles but you leave it to the last minute.  As you know, I have written and I will willingly contribute again.  I actually get pleasure from it, so for me it isn't a chore. 

Equally, there is an assumption that 'someone else' will do it, so nobody does... 

There is also the 'why should anyone do it' attitude because it's all on here anyway... :roll:

I really believe there needs to be more effort from both sides. The problem seems to be that the big events are not TTOC supported, so why should any of the people on it volunteer a write up? [smiley=gossip.gif]

Okay, there were some TTOC reps on Alpina iTTalia, but should they be expected to make a report by default if it isn't TTOC sanctioned? [smiley=baby.gif]

I dunno. Tired of the arguments if I'm honest. Plus I don't see the mag anymore anyway!

Cheers

rich


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

rustyintegrale said:


> I dunno. Tired of the arguments if I'm honest. Plus I don't see the mag anymore anyway!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> rich


You and me both Rich


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## audimad (Jan 7, 2008)

les said:


> audimad said:
> 
> 
> > Nem said:
> ...


 In Club Audi members and only members could bring their partners in with them but NON members could not. If people on here want to attend the AGM then they should join the TTOC don't you think. Give me one good reason to renew my membership when it expires. :?


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## audimad (Jan 7, 2008)

No, i will not be there, i am collecting some alloy wheels for one of our other Audis.


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Matt B said:


> Did the TTOC approach any of the attendees for a write up? If not, then its hardly surprising that no one has put one forward.


Yes, Matt. I have. Twice. But I didn't even get a reply to my PMs :?

As said above: John (and I too) regularly ask for articles not only on the thread but via PMs and it needs a lot of chasing to get some written words out of people with some exceptions of regular in-putters


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

audimad said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> > audimad said:
> ...


 In Club Audi members and only members could bring their partners in with them but NON members could not. If people on here want to attend the AGM then they should join the TTOC don't you think. Give me one good reason to renew my membership when it expires. :?[/quote]

1/ This is not club Audi get over it. 
2/ Not sure there will be any other than members and their partners at the AGM. Why would a non member travel the night before event10 just to attend the AGM? Unless with their partner who is but they still can't vote. But hey oh whatever as long as they can't vote who cares and if they care then I am sorry for them. This is not the Spanish Inquisition you know. 
3/ I am not going to give you any good reason to renew your membership cos if you don't want to you wont do anyway. The reasons to renew/join the club have all been given before so no point in flogging a dead horse I am sure you have heard them before. Nobody's holding any guns to your head. Ok ,ok you asked for one good reason so I will give you just one as requested. The TTOC mag Absolutte but there are more.

Now of course you could always come to the AGM and voice your opinions and ask questions direct to members of the committee.


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## audimad (Jan 7, 2008)

1. At least they had rules about non members.
2. Er, probably so they can stay at the hotel the night before so they won't have a long drive on the Sunday morning, or are you expecting everybody to be coming from Cambridgeshire Les?
3. I said a GOOD reason.
4. I can not make the AGM as i have other plans.


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

audimad said:


> 1. At least they had rules about non members.
> 2. Er, probably so they can stay at the hotel the night before so they won't have a long drive on the Sunday morning, or are you expecting everybody to be coming from Cambridgeshire Les?
> 3. I said a GOOD reason.
> 4. I can not make the AGM as i have other plans.


1/TTOC have rules about non members as in they can't vote at the AGM. The only reason I am staying over is to attend the AGM or I would have driven there and back on Sunday like many more. 
2/Plenty are travelling a fair distance OUTSIDE Cambridge and not staying over but I guess there maybe some but anyway as been said but you seem to want to ignore, they CANT vote so I don't why you have a problem with it.
3/ So you don't like the mag at most do, you asked for a good reason most agree it is now your just being an arse about it.
4/ Well you would do now wouldn't you :wink: The AGM and Event10 was advertised and well known about months ago probably well before you made arrangements to pick up some wheels. I am sure you knew about it as well.

Look like I said no body's holding a gun to your head and you have probably decided not to renew your membership which is a shame but that's your choice. I will be honest with you I think the TTOC should have more restrictions but that's for the membership to decide at the AGM if they wish to but you wont be attending anyway. You could always table a motion and PM it to the club secretary or chairman in your absence as you feel so strongly you don't have to attend to put one forward as far as I know. Something like "I propose that only fully paid up members should be in attendance at AGM's and all others excluded from the room it being held in" There you go I have even written it for you so all you need to do is copy it and send it in. I look forward to voting on it on Saturday night.


----------



## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Just as a point membership includes partners , E.G both people qualify for members admission rate.


----------



## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

A3DFU said:


> Matt B said:
> 
> 
> > Did the TTOC approach any of the attendees for a write up? If not, then its hardly surprising that no one has put one forward.
> ...


Fair point Dani, I am obviously not aware of that. Surprised at people not responding to PM's though - that would just be plain old manners. Hopefully Steve C has taken up the baton for the next issue


----------



## les (Jul 24, 2006)

Matt B said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> > Matt B said:
> ...


You obviously have no problem with the pen Matt so why not pen a contribution of some sort yourself? I am sure John H and the team along with the membership would appreciate it.


----------



## audimad (Jan 7, 2008)

les said:


> audimad said:
> 
> 
> > 1. At least they had rules about non members.
> ...


 For your information Les i am going to renew my membership, i buy anything with Audi in, books, genuine Audi clothing, magazines, DVD's, even if it is no good, just take a look at my forum name. Tell you what i'll volunteer to join the committee and i'll put forward a few ideas for the club, will you nominate me Les then i WILL be there.


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## TT Law (Sep 6, 2003)

audimad said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> > audimad said:
> ...


Jeff,

I fear that your motivation here is to try and get your own way. The committee, from my point of view anyway, try their very hardest to run the club as a fun enterprise. We dont getted bogged down in too much red tape but do stick within the rules of the club.

It takes a lot of valuable time to sort events and the other workings of the club and if it was not at all rewarding or entertaining I can assure you most of us would not do it.

This is why the AGM is run the way it is. It is designed for members to express their views through votes as required and also gather useful pointers on running the club. It simply would not work if non members were excludedand would ruin a good evening to be honest.

As for you wanting to become a member of the committee the club rules are clear that you will require a nominator and seconder by the date specified.

Steve


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

audimad said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> > audimad said:
> ...


Good for you rejoining the TTOC you know it makes sense. 
I wouldn't nominate anybody I couldn't support with their ideas sorry. Re the mag you don't think is one good reason, check out how many awards its won as best club magazine along with the constant praise heaped on it from all quarters. 
Forum names mean nothing really but if you are mad on all thing Audi fair enough but you don't have to be to be all you need to be is a fan of the TT and that's all it takes really. Good idea, you put yourself forward for whatever committee post you care to and good luck with it but I wont second you for the reasons above. I am sure you will have no problem getting somebody else to nominate you though. Failing that just put forward the proposal as stated above. I always admire anybody who is happy to chip in and help in whatever way they can and there are many on here who do. Which position do you fancy? Chairman would be a good one to go for and carrys the most weight I guess.


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Unfortunately as per the club rules nominations closed last Sunday.


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## audimad (Jan 7, 2008)

No, my motivation is to make the TTOC the best UK Audi club, no more no less.


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

wallsendmag said:


> Unfortunately as per the club rules nominations closed last Sunday.


Theres always next year Andrew


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

audimad said:


> No, my motivation is to make the TTOC the best UK Audi club, no more no less.


Good for you. Get involved then as many have and are doing, you wont be alone. Put your suggestions forward, write an article for the mag, offer to help out in whatever way you can. I am sure it would be appreciated by all. The club is always looking for volunteers to help in various ways.


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Matt B said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> > Matt B said:
> ...


Well, can I then use this opportunity to openly ask anyone who's been on the Italian Trip to put pen to paper, or, fingers to keyboard and send us a nice write-up plus loads of high res pictures, please?  
Please send to:
[email protected] or
[email protected]

Thanks


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

A3DFU said:


> Well, can I then use this opportunity to openly ask anyone who's been on the Italian Trip to put pen to paper, or, fingers to keyboard and send us a nice write-up plus loads of high res pictures, please?
> Please send to:
> [email protected] or
> [email protected]
> ...


Hey Dani, Could you please add this to the main Alpina thread (the 140 odd page one). I would do it myself but am a bit rubbish with the links.


----------



## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Matt B said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> > Well, can I then use this opportunity to openly ask anyone who's been on the Italian Trip to put pen to paper, or, fingers to keyboard and send us a nice write-up plus loads of high res pictures, please?
> ...


Sure I'll manage that one, Matt :wink:


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Well there's no need for anyone to get upset - I think we're not all aware of what everyone else has been up to by the sound of it. Matt - we'd love to have an article for the trip so if you, or anyone else you can persuade, can do a write up then we'll definitely include it! We're not ignoring it - it's just that nobody has sent us anything and we have asked.

We are always looking out for copy and it's a real struggle filling the magazine each time. I end up having to write some things myself till all hours of the morning and if it wasn't for the excellent contributions from Mark and certain others who have helped us out when we've suddenly had a hole to fill then we'd have failed long ago.

What we'd really like to have is a cache of already completed articles which we can use to fill the magazine when we are short of articles for a current issue - but we always seem to start a magazine from scratch each time :?

Jeff, you were going to do an article about all your Audi models - we'd love to include that - it's just the sort of thing that can be included any time as it's not date limited. If you can get something together for that then I'm sure it would be of real interest and would be much appreciated  . That goes for anyone else too - so send us your articles and pictures - here are some guidelines: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=141652


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Hi John,

As this thread is titled 'Ideas, concerns, suggestions' may I please offer a couple of ideas?

How about making use of your sig strip to push people for submissions? Then every time you post there is a gentle reminder. Of course the more committee members that do this with their sigs, the more effective it will be... 8)

Second, there is a big list of events on the Forum and human nature being what it is, many might feel their event is not big enough or interesting enough to warrant inclusion in the Club magazine. So how about making an approach to the organisers early to show an interest in running the story? Not only will this give the organiser confidence, it will encourage them to take more photos, write more notes and perhaps better prepare for a written story to be told.

Third, you could do the same for 'build threads'. Not only would these supply you with the 'bank' of articles you request as space fillers, they would also make compelling reading as they do on the Forum.

And finally, how about a copy/photo competition to promote your cause?

If any of these ideas have already, or are already being used, then please accept my apologies!

Cheers

Rich


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

Article with pic's and a drawing sent John. Hope it maybe of some use.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

rustyintegrale said:


> Hi John,
> 
> As this thread is titled 'Ideas, concerns, suggestions' may I please offer a couple of ideas?
> 
> ...


Hi Rich,

I may take your idea about sig strips. As for contacting all the meet organisers - to be honest many meet organisers decide to do something from the off - it happened with the previous Alpine trip where Dave organised everyone to write up a section and we ended up with a huge amount of material. This time it hasn't happened for whatever reason. Reminders can spark off organisation for writing - but it does need someone there to commit to do it and push it through. There is still time on that one so lets hope it happens.

There's a similar thing with projects and How Tos. Usually these turn up without prompting and it just depends on the person taking enough photographs to be able to document things and feeling comfortable about writing it up. The latter is the killer. If you remember Spain and his flooded car rebuild? - that would have made a fantastic article - he took loads of great pictures but not everyone feels comfortable about writing. I can't tell you how many emails of encouragement I sent. Marcus if you are reading this - we'd love to hear from you 

There are others who have said yes to writing an article but it's not happened despite reminders - not saying anything bad here - it's just that often life gets in the way and then the moment is lost and people move on.

Perhaps the cash incentive would work - but we can't afford that  . The biggest incentive I think is people wanting to share their experiences to be helpfull to others and also being proud of whatever it is they've created. Sometimes it does take a trigger to ask however as they may not otherwise have put it forward themselves.

As for a photo competition - it's in the latest issue


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

has my membership expired...

i know last year i got my membership at the event... so was planning on renewing at the eventt again this year.... but obviously dates may have changed and i could be a little late??? although got evenTT tickets at TTOC price '(which arrived with this months mag, but there wasn't a letter with the mag to say i was due??? :?

i know they also e-mail, but just before the italia trip up to about last week my pc was on the rebuild and i seem to have lost e-mails or never recieved them....

i know i'm due... just not sure by how much :lol: :lol:

as for this loevly thread... i'm quite happy the suggestion of a sticky TTOC tax disc holder has been used... (and i have one)

as for this post les...... erm in honesty... i think from experience of what happens on here and past clubs.. this should have not been suggested like this... granted you want to represent the NW, and your intentions were good...and i congratulate you on that.. but in my experience you should have arranged a ILGM (intermidiate Local General Meeting) of which the NW members can sit down discuss the issues / suggestions in the meeting... you would then minuiet the meeting and send to all for confirmation... this would form the basis of issues arrising locally for the AGM... (assuming the AGM asks reps for issues arrising in there area)...

I'm not having a pop here at all les.. it's for your benefit being able to have a conversation with people and actually gage the suggestions, after all it is you who will present them so preperation is key... i know it's a little late in the day but maybe something to consider for next year... (the last club i was with did a ILGM every 1/3 meaning every 4 months they had a meeting that welcomed the new local members gave introductions and also arranged special offers and mentioned the up and coming events for the months ahead)

just a suggestion... not sure how it's done here, and weather that method is supported or carried out by reps../ the TTOC but thought i'd mention it, as in my experience it's worked... (could also use it to request mag articles if one of the locals has a new mod)

[smiley=gossip.gif]


----------



## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Tony, I understand your suggestion but I presume that originated in a club structure where only the regionl reps would attend the national meeting, while of course for our club everyone is welcome. But that said, my understanding is that the AGM is not all that well attended (though as I've never been able to make one myself perhaps I've got that wrong) so your idea may be a very good way for those who can't make the meeting itself to have an input.

So, maybe a good point for next year. I'm sure there will be people who could attend a meeting locally but who won't be able to travel to EvenTT11 or don't fancy the expense of the overnight stay, which is perhaps the biggest disincentive for attending the AGM.


----------



## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

wallsendmag said:


> Just as a point membership includes partners , E.G both people qualify for members admission rate.


Bugger I didn't realise that so bought a non-member ticket for Nic - I demand a £2 refund immediately :lol: :lol: :lol: Andrew buy yourself something nice with the £2 :lol: :lol:

Charlie


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

Mark Davies said:


> Tony, I understand your suggestion but I presume that originated in a club structure where only the regionl reps would attend the national meeting,


No it wasn't... any member could go to the AGM, think it was more to narrow down the views and rather than every tom, dick, and harry, making points ect.. the Reps put these views forward.. (can you imagine if everyone wanted to bring something up it'd take forever) so it was just a way for narrowing down the imput... rather than voicing idea's that could have been discussed at a low level and if warrented could be brought up at the AGM...

i agree though mark... too late this year but deffo something to consider for next year... plus the ILGM is good for proper introductions.. for example.. making a point of welcoming new members ect.... giving abit of info on there cars ect... and at a local setting we can all flag up who we are... meaning there is no nervous who are you off the forum ect.....

plus a meeting like that would be soemthing i'd imagine many of the NWrs would be keen to attened therefore ever 4 months would be a good well planned date allowing for people to make arrangements months in advance to be able to attened....

all it'd take is abit of an adgenda to be written up......


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

John-H said:


> I may take your idea about sig strips...


 :lol: :lol: :lol: Don't force yourself... :roll: :lol:


----------



## les (Jul 24, 2006)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> has my membership expired...
> 
> i know last year i got my membership at the event... so was planning on renewing at the eventt again this year.... but obviously dates may have changed and i could be a little late??? although got evenTT tickets at TTOC price '(which arrived with this months mag, but there wasn't a letter with the mag to say i was due??? :?
> 
> ...


Tony I think it best for all concerned I don't answer your post as it is likely to end in an argument with you yet again and I am sure the folks on here have heard enough from both of us. I could take issue with you on a number of points but won't do. Thanks.


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## audimad (Jan 7, 2008)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> Mark Davies said:
> 
> 
> > Tony, I understand your suggestion but I presume that originated in a club structure where only the regionl reps would attend the national meeting,
> ...


 Some good points are being made here, i don't think Tony wants an arguement Les, he has just put forward some good ideas.


----------



## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

audimad said:


> tony_rigby_uk said:
> 
> 
> > Mark Davies said:
> ...


I agree. Surely this post was designed to generate ideas for discussion.
Even one local get together prior to the AGM would have been worthwhile surely, I mean, how on earth can Les represent the NW if he doesnt know what we really think?
I have not been to the AGM but I am presuming that each rep will be allowed some "air time" - perhaps it would be an idea to let us know the general theme of what Les will be saying on behalf of the NW TTOC members. 
I am sure none of us have anything really radical to propose but it would be nice to know in advance of any topics that are on the table just in case its something any of us feels particularly strongly about.

So this member is saying that Tony's idea is worth considering.


----------



## les (Jul 24, 2006)

audimad said:


> tony_rigby_uk said:
> 
> 
> > Mark Davies said:
> ...


Some yes. Such a shame of these have never been mentioned before till now and on the back of the Awesome issue of late. When I have asked about things to be brought up inc what people want to do such as cruises etc very little has been suggested to me. Shame it took my thread here to air some of them. aIso I know of no other area where ILGMs have taken place. All suggestions welcome at our area meets or to me in person via PM if need be.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

les said:


> Such a shame of these have never been mentioned before till now and on the back of the Awesome issue of late. When I have asked about things to be brought up inc what people want to do such as cruises etc very little has been suggested to me. Shame it took my thread here to air some of them. aIso I know of no other area where ILGMs have taken place. All suggestions welcome at our area meets or to me in person via PM if need be.


It's that ol' communication issue again Les. 'Everyone' thinks they know how to communicate but when it comes down to it the message is either lost or misunderstood.

But hey, what do I know? I only have a degree in marketing communications... :-|


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

Just to clear up any confusion re the AGM and that of reps atteneding. As far as I am aware (and I have not had any information from any committee member) there is no designated slot for the area reps to speak on behalf of their area. Any member can table any question or motion directly to the secretary (I think)and it's not done via the area rep. I have had no prior look at the agenda for the AGM nor has one been sent to me to date. This will be the first AGM I will have attended and therefore have no previous experience of TTOC AGMs although I have takenm part in others non TTOC related in the past.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

les said:


> Just to clear up any confusion re the AGM and that of reps atteneding. As far as I am aware (and I have not had any information from any committee member) there is no designated slot for the area reps to speak on behalf of their area. Any member can table any question or motion directly to the secretary (I think)and it's not done via the area rep. I have had no prior look at the agenda for the AGM nor has one been sent to me to date. This will be the first AGM I will have attended and therefore have no previous experience of TTOC AGMs although I have takenm part in others non TTOC related in the past.


That's crazy. I'm sure the AGM agenda has to be made available for members prior to the event. Otherwise how can any questions be prepared?


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

It was posted here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=177754

And Linked to here:

http://www.ttoc.co.uk/website/viewtopic.php?t=4476&f=30

On the 29th June.


----------



## audimad (Jan 7, 2008)

rustyintegrale said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> > Just to clear up any confusion re the AGM and that of reps atteneding. As far as I am aware (and I have not had any information from any committee member) there is no designated slot for the area reps to speak on behalf of their area. Any member can table any question or motion directly to the secretary (I think)and it's not done via the area rep. I have had no prior look at the agenda for the AGM nor has one been sent to me to date. This will be the first AGM I will have attended and therefore have no previous experience of TTOC AGMs although I have takenm part in others non TTOC related in the past.
> ...


 I have been in a few car clubs Audi and non Audi and every AGM i have been to there has always been a copy of the agenda for the members attending.


----------



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Nem said:


> It was posted here:
> 
> viewtopic.php?f=1&t=177754
> 
> ...


Well there you go then guys - that ol' communication issue again. :lol:

I knew you'd do it right Nick, but maybe comms. is an area that needs fixing... :wink:


----------



## les (Jul 24, 2006)

OOps sorry missed those threads  Thanks for pointing them out Nick.
Now regarding members submitting items/ questions.
"  Members wishing a matter to be discussed at the AGM shall submit the text of such matters to
the Club Secretary at least 14 days before the date of such a meeting, so that it may be included
in the agenda."

Note not via your local area rep and also note there is nothing directly on the agenda for each rep to have their say. However given the above there is no need to submit your questions via a rep. As far as I can see reps have no more pull or right to ask or submit questions than any other member which IMO is correct.


----------



## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

I think as much as anything it's a problem with getting people to visit the TTOC site to see whats being posted on there, and getting stuff posted on there to make people want to check it.

But a(nother) redesign of the TTOC site is almost complete to make it easier to update and get content on there...


----------



## audimad (Jan 7, 2008)

Mark Davies said:


> Tony, I understand your suggestion but I presume that originated in a club structure where only the regionl reps would attend the national meeting, while of course for our club everyone is welcome. But that said, my understanding is that the AGM is not all that well attended (though as I've never been able to make one myself perhaps I've got that wrong) so your idea may be a very good way for those who can't make the meeting itself to have an input.
> 
> So, maybe a good point for next year. I'm sure there will be people who could attend a meeting locally but who won't be able to travel to EvenTT11 or don't fancy the expense of the overnight stay, which is perhaps the biggest disincentive for attending the AGM.


 I agree, how about for next years AGM/EvenTT they are held on the same day?, just an idea.


----------



## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

audimad said:


> I agree, how about for next years AGM/EvenTT they are held on the same day?, just an idea.


There is no way that from getting up at 6am on Sunday to then set up flags, banners, and gazebos etc etc and spend all day running from one task to the next I am then going to sit down in the evening and attempt to run an AGM.

They are on two separate days for a reason


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Nem said:


> I think as much as anything it's a problem with getting people to visit the TTOC site to see whats being posted on there


Spot on Nick. 8)

It doesn't matter how good you make it look, you just need to drive people there. Maybe you could look closer at the links between the TTF and the TTOC? I note that your sig. strip seems to be the only one with an active link in it. All of them should be active! But you also need a message in them as a call to action!

cheers

rich


----------



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Nem said:


> audimad said:
> 
> 
> > I agree, how about for next years AGM/EvenTT they are held on the same day?, just an idea.
> ...


Yeah, come on Nick! Can you run a free barbecue and bar too?! :lol: :lol:

Mr AudiMad... You're having a laugh... Do you have any idea how much work is involved?

Cheers

rich


----------



## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

Hey Nick, thanks for posting a link to the agenda.
How do we get a copy of the minutes of the last meeting and the forthcoming proposals for the meeting ?
Or have I missed a link somewhere?


----------



## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

Jae is currently looking at a fresh look for the TTF and getting a few other bits sorted out. Once thats done and once the TTOC site is updated with the new version it should be a lot easier to get some inter linking between them.


----------



## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

Matt B said:


> Hey Nick, thanks for posting a link to the agenda.
> How do we get a copy of the minutes of the last meeting and the forthcoming proposals for the meeting ?
> Or have I missed a link somewhere?


You need to drop the club secretary an email on [email protected]

Nick


----------



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Nem said:


> Jae is currently looking at a fresh look for the TTF and getting a few other bits sorted out. Once thats done and once the TTOC site is updated with the new version it should be a lot easier to get some inter linking between them.


Well I hope it works for you mate. Won't be at the national but I'll see you at Audis in the park. Let's chew the cud... :wink:


----------



## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

Nem said:


> Matt B said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Nick, thanks for posting a link to the agenda.
> ...


Thanks Nick ( I am just a nosey bugger thats all  )


----------



## audimad (Jan 7, 2008)

Nem said:


> audimad said:
> 
> 
> > I agree, how about for next years AGM/EvenTT they are held on the same day?, just an idea.
> ...


 You don't seem to get the idea, let me explain. For example, say next years EvenTT/AGM is held at Gaydon Motor Museum, the EvenTT starts at 9am, the AGM shouldn't be more than 2hrs max so you have that at 12pm until 2pm in one of the rooms that Gaydon have, after the AGM has finished you carry on on with the EvenTT. 

1. 9am EvenTT begins.
2. 9.30am Concours/Show N Shine entrants set up, cleaning/polishing.
3. 12pm-2pm AGM.
4. 2.30pm Concours/Show N Shine judging
5. 4.30pm Concours/Show N Shine results and prize giving.
6. 5pm EvenTT ends.

This is just an idea but i am sure it could work.


----------



## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

les said:


> Tony I think it best for all concerned I don't answer your post as it is likely to end in an argument with you yet again and I am sure the folks on here have heard enough from both of us. I could take issue with you on a number of points but won't do. Thanks.


I've got a suggestion les.... but for the sake of everyone else reading it i'm not going to post it... think your comments relating to a post that congratulated you.. and suggested something new for next year.... which was recieved well by all the other members... but unfortuntly spat on by you.....I think you can guess where my suggestion will be heading les....

P.S this post should be called "only post Idea's, concerns, and suggestions that I agree with les" isn't that right.....?? :roll:

COCK


----------



## audimad (Jan 7, 2008)

rustyintegrale said:


> Nem said:
> 
> 
> > audimad said:
> ...


 Yes i do or i would not have mentioned it.

Cheers

Jeff


----------



## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

Jeff no offence but No


----------



## audimad (Jan 7, 2008)

wallsendmag said:


> Jeff no offence but No


 Non taken, but i had a feeling that no one would go with the idea.


----------



## audimad (Jan 7, 2008)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> > Tony I think it best for all concerned I don't answer your post as it is likely to end in an argument with you yet again and I am sure the folks on here have heard enough from both of us. I could take issue with you on a number of points but won't do. Thanks.
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

audimad said:


> Yes i do or i would not have mentioned it.
> 
> Cheers


Me too. So you'll understand why trying to arrange an event with all the last minute emergencies and failures could possibly screw up an AGM where your full attention is demanded by 100% caring and interested parties?

Sorry Jeff, but the suggestion is a little unrealistic. Not only that, it would make a stressful and tiring weekend even more exhausting.

The traditional way of doing it is by far the best.

Cheers

rich


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> > Tony I think it best for all concerned I don't answer your post as it is likely to end in an argument with you yet again and I am sure the folks on here have heard enough from both of us. I could take issue with you on a number of points but won't do. Thanks.
> ...


Now now you two life's too short :roll: - I thought we were all supposed to be friends on here really :wink: Come on be big and make up  :-*


----------



## audimad (Jan 7, 2008)

rustyintegrale said:


> audimad said:
> 
> 
> > Yes i do or i would not have mentioned it.
> ...


 It is not unrealistic, i have been to a few events with an AGM where it all goes OK, and it wouldn't be stressful and tiring as i'm sure you would have lots of volunteers to help.

The traditional way is also the expensive way.

Cheers

Jeff


----------



## les (Jul 24, 2006)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> les said:
> 
> 
> > Tony I think it best for all concerned I don't answer your post as it is likely to end in an argument with you yet again and I am sure the folks on here have heard enough from both of us. I could take issue with you on a number of points but won't do. Thanks.
> ...


With all due respect etc etc Tony all suggestions to the secretary. ALL the members Tony??? Oh come on now ALL??. However I did say you had some good suggestions but not all and that's me voicing MY opinion if its OK with you that is. Not sure where your suggestions are heading Tony but I know where they should be mate. Your always right Tony as per all your post on the Awesome open day are right, I can't argue with that. 
Now then as far as suggestions are concerned. Here one for you. If would appear you take issue with most things I have done or say on here and that you have little or no confidence in me as per the tones and open insults of many of your posts. So here what I propose. YOU arrange a vote of no confidence in me and we will take it from there. Now you know what to do and even have my support in doing it. I will even second your nomination as I am sure you will be a very good job as and when the NW crew give you your backing. What could be simpler? I am fed up of "talking out my arse and not knowing what I am talking about, over arranging things" plus lots of other things you have suggested recently so come on now there must be lots more who could do the job far better than me and who better than you?


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

audimad said:


> ...i'm sure you would have lots of volunteers to help...


I think that has always been the problem.

I dunno why I'm commenting really, I'm not a member, but I love the TT


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

les said:


> tony_rigby_uk said:
> 
> 
> > les said:
> ...


Les, chill mate...

You're always gonna have an unhappy customer, but the lesson here is how to deal with one, and you're in need of a few pointers :lol: It's like looking in the mirror sometimes... :lol:


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

les, put your dummy back in [smiley=baby.gif] your having more mood swings than a menaposal woman...

the awesome open day has no relavance to this post... and to stay on topic i will not comment further.. if you'd like to post regarding that matter please do so on the awesome thread, however i have stated i am no longer following that thread but i'm sure someone will read it..

as for this post.. let me ask you some questions..

1) did i congratulate you on a good idea of bringing this uo?
2) did i suggest (as this post is all about "suggestions") a differing method that could be employed next year.. rather than posting on here.. (after all it's NW members your after being a rep)?
3) i did say the idea, was purely beneficial for you..?

i cannot conclude what would cause a argument in my suggestion... and do feel like you have taken a grudge to another post and not take each topic as a seperate entity..

in reality all i did was suggest something... which is infact what you asked for.....

i never called for your head.. or a vote of no confidence.. so stop being so Mard... after all les, i did nominate you for the job in the first place... and support you 100% on most issues...

I did actually think my suggestion was a pretty good idea.. (even if it was pinched from another club) but to be fair your response did seem rather in appropriate for a thread that clearly asked for ideas... as i said it wasn't a pop... it's too late to implement for this year.... therefore it was no means a dig... but infact a suggestion for next year....


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## les (Jul 24, 2006)

Les, chill mate...

You're always gonna have an unhappy customer, but the lesson here is how to deal with one, and you're in need of a few pointers :lol: It's like looking in the mirror sometimes... :lol:[/quote]

Quite frankly Rich I am sick of the way some people think they can use terms such as "with all due respect" then go on to shower you with insults then think you will just sit back and take it. Sometimes you have to speak others own language to show you wont do. I am not somebody who just talks about things and moans at others while sitting back and doing nothing little at all. Not that long ago the NW was an oasis of inactivity that's not the situation now. As a rep you ask for suggestions and ideas and apart from one or two nothing until they come on here telling what I should be doing and that I am doing things wrong etc etc. Everybody is entitled to an opinion for sure and I have no issues with that. 
I do have issues with is people having pop and then saying they aren't also failing to answer legitimate questions or responding to requests that I have made. Just take a look around the regions and see what goes on there for comparisons but I don't hear the complaints and the sniping I have heard on here recently from one or two. From what I hear and read the majority are more than happy with the way the NW has gone over the last year. No other area is more active but it appears I should be doing more much more and above my station at that. AS far as I am concerned if anybody wants to have a go at being the NW rep they can do and with my blessing its no status symbol for me. being a rep costs me money (am on a pension) and my time which each rep must freely give. All I ask is why don't such members put these things forward at the monthly meets rather than use them as a stick to beat you with. I have always been open to suggestions always will be as long as I am rep. I do however have a concern that the NW area could become some sort of satellite faction from the TTOC expecting too much of the rep and the TTOC and trying to use the rep for their own purposes and agendas. That's one of the reasons I support the fact any member can table a motion or ask a question through the agenda and to the committee rather than pushing the rep to table them for them.

I will however refrain from further post on here and won't even be reading them after this one.


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

my 1st post:


tony_rigby_uk said:


> as for this loevly thread... i'm quite happy the suggestion of a sticky TTOC tax disc holder has been used... (and i have one)
> 
> as for this post les...... erm in honesty... i think from experience of what happens on here and past clubs.. this should have not been suggested like this... granted you want to represent the NW, and your intentions were good...and i congratulate you on that.. but in my experience you should have arranged a ILGM (intermidiate Local General Meeting) of which the NW members can sit down discuss the issues / suggestions in the meeting... you would then minuiet the meeting and send to all for confirmation... this would form the basis of issues arrising locally for the AGM... (assuming the AGM asks reps for issues arrising in there area)...
> 
> ...


my 2nd post


tony_rigby_uk said:


> Mark Davies said:
> 
> 
> > Tony, I understand your suggestion but I presume that originated in a club structure where only the regionl reps would attend the national meeting,
> ...


can someone explain to me.. because perhaps i'm a social retard... but what in those posts could have been taken as an attack on les and warrent a post disregarding the comments saying it will cause an argument...:-



les said:


> Tony I think it best for all concerned I don't answer your post as it is likely to end in an argument with you yet again and I am sure the folks on here have heard enough from both of us. I could take issue with you on a number of points but won't do. Thanks.


Granted my 3rd e-mail... the one that did insult you... was a reaction to a post saying i'm causing a argument and that my post is just disregarded... when all it was was a vaild suggestion.... and to be honest the insult is quite fitting for someone who asked for suggestions.... then ignore and try and make out my post is causing a argument......

if anyone else can see where in my 2 posts before les posted his reply, where i said anything unreasonable and not in good heart of this thread...? can anyone who sees a issue with my first 2 posts highlight said areas for me... as i'm clearly missing something here... :?


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

les said:


> Les, chill mate...
> 
> You're always gonna have an unhappy customer, but the lesson here is how to deal with one, and you're in need of a few pointers :lol: It's like looking in the mirror sometimes... :lol:





les said:


> Quite frankly Rich I am sick of the way some people think they can use terms such as "with all due respect" then go on to shower you with insults then think you will just sit back and take it. Sometimes you have to speak others own language to show you wont do. I am not somebody who just talks about things and moans at others while sitting back and doing nothing little at all. Not that long ago the NW was an oasis of inactivity that's not the situation now. As a rep you ask for suggestions and ideas and apart from one or two nothing until they come on here telling what I should be doing and that I am doing things wrong etc etc. Everybody is entitled to an opinion for sure and I have no issues with that.
> I do have issues with is people having pop and then saying they aren't also failing to answer legitimate questions or responding to requests that I have made. Just take a look around the regions and see what goes on there for comparisons but I don't hear the complaints and the sniping I have heard on here recently from one or two. From what I hear and read the majority are more than happy with the way the NW has gone over the last year. No other area is more active but it appears I should be doing more much more and above my station at that. AS far as I am concerned if anybody wants to have a go at being the NW rep they can do and with my blessing its no status symbol for me. being a rep costs me money (am on a pension) and my time which each rep must freely give. All I ask is why don't such members put these things forward at the monthly meets rather than use them as a stick to beat you with. I have always been open to suggestions always will be as long as I am rep. I do however have a concern that the NW area could become some sort of satellite faction from the TTOC expecting too much of the rep and the TTOC and trying to use the rep for their own purposes and agendas. That's one of the reasons I support the fact any member can table a motion or ask a question through the agenda and to the committee rather than pushing the rep to table them for them.
> 
> I will however refrain from further post on here and won't even be reading them after this one.


Unfortunately Les when you put yourself up for a position of responsibility some of that responsibility is to deal with unhappy punters. I know you're an enthusiastic member and like me you love the TT and the life that revolves around it.

But being a rep means you represent the people in your area and sometimes you have to swallow the fact that the members opinion might outweigh your view. That's when you need to show your mettle by presenting a convincing argument for why you are right.

You do that by point scoring and winning people over to your side. But you do it with substance. Listen to their complaints and deliver a solution. If people are unhappy they'll go elsewhere, it's human nature.

I wish you luck mate and don't bow down to aggro. Present a convincing argument based on facts. :wink:

Cheers

Rich


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## tony_rigby_uk (Nov 27, 2008)

Rich,

i'm not a unhappy punter... or at least i wasn't before this!!!! my idea as it happens, apparently has points to take issue about, and cause an argument... all i did was post a suggestion... which is what the thread asked for.... :?

i only became unhappy when i was acused of causing arguments.... and for the suggestion to be completely disregarded by the person who asked for suggestions.... (even though others thought it was a good idea)

at which point.. i became a unhappy punter.. personally don't see the need for les's response.. as some thought this was a good idea... however les thought it was a argument.... i can't see it so someone please explain....


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Is it time for all to sit back now and chill?


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

tony_rigby_uk said:


> Rich,
> 
> i'm not a unhappy punter... or at least i wasn't before this!!!! my idea as it happens, apparently has points to take issue about, and cause an argument... all i did was post a suggestion... which is what the thread asked for.... :?
> 
> ...


Tony mate, my post wasn't referring to you specifically. It's obvious there is some discontent with the membership up there and it needs sorting. I'm not a magician and nor is Les. I'm sorry to keep banging the same drum, but it's about communication. [smiley=bigcry.gif]

This club does not communicate a unified and consistent message well... :?


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

A3DFU said:


> It it time for all to sit back now and chill?


Dani, with respect, you are great at pacifying but that doesn't resolve the problems. We need some constructive input.

I mean that in the friendliest way possible...


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

rustyintegrale said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> > Is it time for all to sit back now and chill?
> ...


I'd be the last not to suggest constructive input Rich but that has been made over the first few pages.
What seems to happen now is that people are just digging their heels in and that is not constructive in my view.

So can I just ask again: chill and group hug all please


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

A3DFU said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> > A3DFU said:
> ...


Sorry Dani, I don't believe you. Be constructive or just leave it to those that have something constructive. We need valid input.


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

Just to set the record straight.

No one is unhappy with Les as a rep. In fact we all put Les forward. We all think Les does a great job (and I know I am speaking for Tony here as well).

The problem here is communication, and in particular written communication. I guess some of our suggestions have come across as criticism. This has then resulted in defensive responses - which have actually then generated real criticism. Hence we enter a downward spiral. 

We do have some strong characters in the NW, which can be great for the group, but it can also lead to stand off's like this one. I suggest we just forget all the sniping and get on with doing what we do well.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Matt B said:


> The problem here is communication, and in particular written communication....


FOR GOD'S SAKE LISTEN TTOC...

Is the committee full of people who are so up their own arses they won't even consider the possibility?

Jesus....


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

rustyintegrale said:


> Matt B said:
> 
> 
> > The problem here is communication, and in particular written communication....
> ...


Things don't hapen overnight, and we're all quite busy this week for some reason...


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## MonTheFish (Jul 6, 2005)

rustyintegrale said:


> Matt B said:
> 
> 
> > The problem here is communication, and in particular written communication....
> ...


Maybe the committee have just stopped listening to the piss you write?


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Nem said:


> rustyintegrale said:
> 
> 
> > Matt B said:
> ...


Nick, you know I have respect for what you've done and I applaud you.

You have done much to make the club good. But you have dead wood and lots of it.

I have never seen the Vice Pres. on here. Rob is not contributing is he?

Cheers

rich


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## MonTheFish (Jul 6, 2005)

FOR GOD'S SAKE LISTEN TTOC...

Is the committee full of people who are so up their own arses they won't even consider the possibility?

Jesus....[/quote]

Things don't hapen overnight, and we're all quite busy this week for some reason...[/quote]

Nick, you know I have respect for what you've done and I applaud you.

You have done much to make the club good. But you have dead wood and lots of it.

I have never seen the Vice Pres. on here. Rob is not contributing is he?

Cheers

rich [/quote]

Just the rest of us that are up our own arses then...and you wonder why most people wouldn't give you the time of day..honestly I have no idea how you get on in life I really dont.


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

rustyintegrale said:


> Nick, you know I have respect for what you've done and I applaud you.
> 
> You have done much to make the club good. But you have dead wood and lots of it.
> 
> ...


Thanks Rich. 

The VC post is something which has been discussed over the last couple of weeks, and will be rectified very shortly. Also will be brought up at the AGM.

There is a lot going on behind the scenes, not that we're hiding things, but just trying to get on with making things better and easier for everyone.

8)


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

MonTheFish said:


> Just the rest of us that are up our own arses then...and you wonder why most people wouldn't give you the time of day..honestly I have no idea how you get on in life I really dont.


Well do you think you're delivering then?

Maybe I'm missing something?

You've been hovering on here and on the TTOC site like you think you're special.

What do you contribute to daily life on here then?

Cheers

Rich


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## Nem (Feb 14, 2005)

I've locked this now, simple as we really have too much on this week to keep checking and replying.

I think as has been pointed out that communication to and from the TTOC is an issue, not that we wern't aware of that before, and is something constantly being assesed.

I know that official questions were meant to be sent to the club secretary 14 days before the AGM for inclusion of the agenda. But seing as this seems to have been overlooked I'll invite anyone with specific questions to PM me or email me ([email protected]) personally and we'll add them to the end of the AGM.

Lets move on from there and after the AGM if there are issues then we'll get the reps to discuss further with members and see how we can improve things.


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