# Clay & Wax



## MINI-TTGuy (Sep 29, 2008)

A while ago, I clayed my car, and the finish was very smooth indeed. Over the next couple of months I gave it a couple of coats of swissvaz x onyx and the surface feels quite rough. I clayed the car again yesterday, and little red specs were picked up by the white clay. All the clay did was take off the swissvax!

I read something before about paint finishes feeling rough after waxing, as the wax stores dirt and other particles that would not stick to the paint were it not waxed - this proves it! I never clayed or used expensive wax on my last car - a new MINI - and its paint finish was always extremely smooth - just used to use Aquawax after washing every week.

I'm starting to think that this whole clay/waxing thing is a bit of a con - sell them wax to give the car a shine, then sell them clay to remove it when the surface goes rough after a month or so...Also, given that wax stores dirt and contamination causing a rough finish, surely this is affecting the shine/gloss it adds?


----------



## leenx (Feb 8, 2010)

MINI-TTGuy said:


> A while ago, I clayed my car, and the finish was very smooth indeed. Over the next couple of months I gave it a couple of coats of swissvaz x onyx and the surface feels quite rough. I clayed the car again yesterday, and little red specs were picked up by the white clay. All the clay did was take off the swissvax!
> 
> I read something before about paint finishes feeling rough after waxing, as the wax stores dirt and other particles that would not stick to the paint were it not waxed - this proves it! I never clayed or used expensive wax on my last car - a new MINI - and its paint finish was always extremely smooth - just used to use Aquawax after washing every week.
> 
> I'm starting to think that this whole clay/waxing thing is a bit of a con - sell them wax to give the car a shine, then sell them clay to remove it when the surface goes rough after a month or so...Also, given that wax stores dirt and contamination causing a rough finish, surely this is affecting the shine/gloss it adds?


Interesting reading. What I also find interesting is that in terms of washing the vehicle - in many cases Johnsons babyu bath is just as good as your more expensive car shampoos. Someone should do a controlld experiement, one chap has very cheap product, the other top of the range (both at same level in terms of car detailing) see what the results are after a period - can't se it happening though! :roll:


----------



## ScoobyTT (Aug 24, 2009)

MINI-TTGuy said:


> I'm starting to think that this whole clay/waxing thing is a bit of a con


Yes. Claying has been something of a bandwagon that the world and his dog has jumped on. Congratulations, you can now jump off it safe in the knowledge that you're basically wasting your time. 



MINI-TTGuy said:


> Sell them wax to give the car a shine, then sell them clay to remove it when the surface goes rough after a month or so...


Almost, but you shouldn't be claying that often anyway. Claying originally was intended for emergency use only, and not really for doing an entire car. Since then it turned into something of a cash cow as it's just another process that you can sell to process-hungry detailers who think they're doing the right thing. The emergency only advice has gone out of the window apart from very few manufacturers.

If you want to remove the wax once a month, just use a detergent.



MINI-TTGuy said:


> Also, given that wax stores dirt and contamination causing a rough finish, surely this is affecting the shine/gloss it adds?


Careful, there's another pit to fall into :lol: If you're asking the question you're not noticing the difference, and really it's unlikely you would. Cloth patterns in the surface of the wax are more noticeable than any dirt with the right light.


----------



## Dynamo (Mar 13, 2010)

Don't agree, a soft clay like bilt is a great product for all over the car before polish/wax without it you'd be polishing the contaminants in.. Only twice year not a regular thing.

I use nxt wax as its light and doesn't pick up like the more expensive ones..


----------



## hugy (Dec 4, 2007)

MINI-TTGuy said:


> A while ago, I clayed my car, and the finish was very smooth indeed. Over the next couple of months I gave it a couple of coats of swissvaz x onyx and the surface feels quite rough. I clayed the car again yesterday, and little red specs were picked up by the white clay. All the clay did was take off the swissvax!
> 
> I read something before about paint finishes feeling rough after waxing, as the wax stores dirt and other particles that would not stick to the paint were it not waxed - this proves it! I never clayed or used expensive wax on my last car - a new MINI - and its paint finish was always extremely smooth - just used to use Aquawax after washing every week.
> 
> I'm starting to think that this whole clay/waxing thing is a bit of a con - sell them wax to give the car a shine, then sell them clay to remove it when the surface goes rough after a month or so...Also, given that wax stores dirt and contamination causing a rough finish, surely this is affecting the shine/gloss it adds?


Thats strange Rob,
I've never had that problem and I've clayed my car at least 6 times so far.
Are you sure its not the Swissvax recacting to the particular clay you used?


----------



## Smeds (Oct 28, 2009)

Claying removes contaniment bonded to the paint, giving you a clean surface to apply polish. If you want to remove wax you could try a degreaser, I'm a fan of virosol. Or Mequiars do a dedicated bug and wax remover. 
The detailing process is made up of many different stages, each tying into and working with the next. Some of these stages get onto the bandwagon and picked up by the masses, but when they're not done right or without the previous or following stages in the process they may not give the result you were promised and appear to be a con.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 20, 2011)

After you clayed the first time did you polish the paint after??

The correct process is wash, clay, polish, wax. There should be no real need to clay your car more than twice a year, and only then if it really needs it. Any quality wash wax or shampoo will maintain the finish and keep the car clean and free of bonded on dirt. If you are washing the car weekly or fortnightly I would expect you will need to reapply the wax every 3-4 months when it stops beading and loses its lustre. Wax has a lifespan, when its applied its not a permanent fix, some do last more than others, but the Onyx I find doesn't last more than a couple of months under regular washing.

Clay does remove wax, as the wax is essentially a bonded contaminant on the paint. Its not a con as has been suggested, and not a cash cow for us detailers, if the correct process is followed it is a part of the prep process in achieving an immaculate finish to the paint of any car.

To remove the wax, especially if you are using the Onyx, I would use the Swissvax cleaner fluid, that removes any old dead wax and any muck on the paint like clay, but will avoid any potential marring of the paint by the clay, and you wont then need to polish the car again.


----------



## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

Why on earth would you polish and then wax?


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 20, 2011)

Danny1 said:


> Why on earth would you polish and then wax?


Because you always polish then wax, thats why!!! The polishing removes any marks on the paint that maybe present, the wax seals in the finish. If you wax then polish the abrasives in the polish removes the wax.


----------



## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

never heard of polishing full stop when you wax.... always believed you polish or wax, not both...


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 20, 2011)

Danny1 said:


> never heard of polishing full stop when you wax.... always believed you polish or wax, not both...


Everyone has their own ways of doing stuff, for the maximum effect its best to wax after polish. If you want to be really flash you can polish, sealant and then wax on top of the sealant. 8)


----------



## hugy (Dec 4, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Danny1 said:
> 
> 
> > never heard of polishing full stop when you wax.... always believed you polish or wax, not both...
> ...


Thats what I do


----------



## r_youngson (Apr 29, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Danny1 said:
> 
> 
> > never heard of polishing full stop when you wax.... always believed you polish or wax, not both...
> ...


Sounds like the usual confusion of terminology.. which the car care product manufacturers are very good at helping to create! Lots of people say that they're polishing their car when they really mean that they're waxing or sealing the paintwork. Strictly speaking the term polishing refers to the removal of marks, eg. cleaning or correcting the paintwork, like [email protected] has already said. 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polishing' There are quite a few products on the go which are labelled as polish when they're really more of a wax/sealant, or a dual purpose product such as AG Super Resin Polish or Carlack NSC which will clean your paintwork (polish) but also add a layer of protection (wax/sealant).


----------



## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

r_youngson said:


> [email protected] said:
> 
> 
> > Danny1 said:
> ...


OK fair enough that makes sense, so with AG Sresin for eg, would you use that and then wax over it then use say dodo red mist to seal? or would you advise a different "polish" that doesnt have a wax/sealant in it?


----------



## r_youngson (Apr 29, 2009)

I think that's really a matter of personal choice and really depends on what you're wanting to achieve with your paintwork. if you were just looking to get it clean and protected then something along the lines of Super Resin or Carlack NSC after a good wash would be fine for that, other people looking for more of a glossy look would use a sealant or wax over the top in however many layers they prefer. Using a normal polish which has no protection would remove whatever layer the Super Resin has left so if you wanted to use a normal correction polish you'd want to use that first... then either use a combined product (like SR or NSC) if that's what you've got, or build up layers of sealant, wax... or sealant then wax. I'[m sure I saw some good guides either on here or on CYC or DW forums (not sure if it's ok to post links to other websites so if you're not familiar with those i can pass them on).


----------

