# B&O Door Speakers - Two blown in 2000 miles



## ShavetheWookie (Mar 16, 2017)

Hi guys,

I thought I would see if anyone else is having issues with the main door speakers in their mk3 TT. I have the B&O system and have now blown both the driver and passenger door speakers within six months of it leaving the factory.

I'll admit, I do turn the volume up to pretty much max on every journey for a few tunes... But the bass and treble are set to mid. I'm certainly not doing anything they are not designed/capable of doing through manufacturer provided control.

Anyone else had any issues? Or maybe even changed out the B&O for something of higher quality?

Many thanks, Dan


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## Rev (Nov 17, 2015)

The problem could be that it depends how "loud" your music source is.
For example you can have an MP3 and its quieter than another one. So when you put the speakers to max volume on a loud MP3, it can go beyond what the amp/speakers can handle, because they're amplifying something which has already been "pre-amped".

So essentially you can get situations where the volume says 100%, but its really at 120%. So the safe limit of the system is around 80%. If your source is quiet then you can put it to 100% but for the most part its usually not a good idea to go all the way to 100%.

Maybe you have a faulty amp though, or faulty speakers... I'm sure you'd be able to claim on warranty and see how it goes with a new system.


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## ShavetheWookie (Mar 16, 2017)

Hi,

Yes warranty is not an issue. Audi have already replaced the driver side and are booked to replace the passenger side.

I mainly have the radio on... If a replacement speaker goes again, I may ask for a further inspection of the system... If that finds nothing, perhaps I can question the £2000 odd it cost to have the audio pack.

Will update you when I know more.


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

HOW LOUD IS MAX?

ARE YOUR EARS OK?

Sorry to shout but....


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## ShavetheWookie (Mar 16, 2017)

Yes it is pretty loud, but nothing crazy. The system sounds pretty good with chart music as long as you don't listen to DAB radio (terrible bitrate/quality). I would imagine that most B&O mk3 TT users would never go above 50%-70% capability as even that is fairly loud... But I like LOUD!

I've enquired with car audio firms about installing an additional amp/sub to take some of the strain, however none seem to be that motivated to tackle the car with it being such a complex system.


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## Jonny_C (Jul 24, 2013)

ShavetheWookie said:


> Yes it is pretty loud, but nothing crazy. The system sounds pretty good with chart music as long as you don't listen to DAB radio (terrible bitrate/quality). I would imagine that most B&O mk3 TT users would never go above 50%-70% capability as even that is fairly loud... But I like LOUD!


    Mine sits at 20%ish most of the time. I think I once turned it up to about 60% on to demonstrate how good it was to my brother-in-law.


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## csi_basel (May 11, 2006)

Music varies in loudness....so if you are at max vol and then you come to a more intense part of the song that needs more power but you are already at the limit, then your amp is out of juice! You normally then get distortion and blown speakers.

You have 3 options
A-get a much more powerful amp! Expensive 
B-replace all the speakers with higher sensitivity ones. They will be louder with the amp at the same volume as before. 
C-Get your hearing checked out.....

I have the same system and its bl**dy loud already at 50%!


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## Xiano (Mar 18, 2016)

I don't think I've ever had it above 65%. Already that's way too loud for me and is just for showing off to people that are in the car for the first time. I'm terrified to turn it up any more than that for fear of blowing the speakers, and now you've justified my decision. If you've had it at max volume specifically because you like it LOUD, I'm not surprised you've blown them tbh.


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## Rev (Nov 17, 2015)

Maybe your amp is faulty, it could be that 100% on your amp is more like 50% on other people's working amps, so your amp is struggling to power the speakers which causes them to blow.

When the amp struggles to power a speaker it physically holds it in or out for too long (called square sine wave), speakers cool themselves by moving in and out which sucks in fresh air, so when they have power going through them and sit still even for short times, it makes the internals melt. So if your amp is faulty it might do that to your speakers.

However its one of those things, maybe your amp isn't faulty and you really do like it at 100% volume, well obviously you have discovered it can't handle that :lol: So your solution there would be, don't go above 80%, or get uprated speakers and amp.

B&O Is not a particularly loud brand, its pretty much sound quality focused, there are basically 3 levels:
SQ - Sound Quality - Not designed to play mega loud but sound good
SPL - Sound Pressure Level - Designed to play as loud as possible (usually for competition)
SQL - Mix between SQ and SPL

A good SQL brand is Morel, its high end stuff is fairly expensive, but they are good. I don't think their low-mid end stuff would satisfy you though. IDK how easy it'd be to upgrade the B&O, but you'd have to change both amp and speakers. For something like Morel you would need about 1000W to power all the speakers. Would probably cost about £3-4k in total, but it would absolutely decimate the B&O  I think tbh if you aren't prepared to spend that much, just leave it, you could just end up making things worse, or simply not notice a big enough difference.


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## Mark Pred (Feb 1, 2017)

ShavetheWookie said:


> Yes it is pretty loud, but nothing crazy. The system sounds pretty good with chart music as long as you don't listen to DAB radio (terrible bitrate/quality). I would imagine that most B&O mk3 TT users would never go above 50%-70% capability as even that is fairly loud... But I like LOUD!
> 
> I've enquired with car audio firms about installing an additional amp/sub to take some of the strain, however none seem to be that motivated to tackle the car with it being such a complex system.


At 50% it is loud enough, 75% and the whole interior is vibrating. You must have hearing difficulties (or will have) running it any higher than that. No small wonder you wrecked it if you are consistently running with the volume so high. I wouldn't tell Audi that, as they may argue any warranty claim. It's akin to driving a car at the redline all the time.


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## bainsyboy (Dec 5, 2004)

Role on Tinitus


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## ttsser (Feb 27, 2017)

Where do people get their 'facts' from? In a system costing this much I would not expect the speakers to blow, whatever volume you turn it too. The speakers have blown because they can't handle the power from the amp. No point in changing the amp,but you might want to get more robust speakers. It might be difficult to find higher power rating speakers without compromising on the sensitivity though. More robust speakers are usually less sensitive, meaning less volume for the same amount of power put in.

If you blow the speakers again, which you almost certainly will if you keep listening at max, ask Audi to uprate them to be more suitable for the amplifier.

The amplifier can't play at over 100%.There is a maximum volume that a digital track can play at, no louder. Most tracks never reach this volume, but a well produced recording should get very close to maximise the signal to noise ratio. The amplifier should be designed to handle sounds that hit 100% and somewhere there will be a specification that says how much distortion the amp will produce at this maximum output. It is true that this distortion makes it harder work 
for the speakers (and it sounds sh1t), but the speakers specified with that amp should be able to handle it!


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

ttsser said:


> The amplifier should be designed to handle sounds that hit 100% and somewhere there will be a specification that says how much distortion the amp will produce at this maximum output. It is true that this distortion makes it harder work for the speakers (and it sounds sh1t), but the speakers specified with that amp should be able to handle it!


I'm inclined to agree there.

Perhaps where other posters are maybe coming from may be based on hifi separates (or indeed aftermarket car audio), where amp and speakers are often chosen separately? In that scenario, then yes, very possible to blow speakers if volume cranked too high and components weren't chosen carefully and correctly matched in the first place.

However with regard to an unmodified manufacturer installed system (an expensive one as well) I'd expect it to have been designed with the known limits in mind. So exactly as you say.

Sure, having volume cranked to the max probably won't sound good, and probably will result in shorter system lifespan overall. But should it be blowing a speakers with this regularity? Absolutely not in my view - I'd say badly designed or faulty if it does.


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## Jonny_C (Jul 24, 2013)

I don't think it is anywhere near as clear-cut as just not being able to "cope" at 100%.

The quality and nature of the recordings being played will make more of a difference - for a beautifully mastered / encoded "pure" piece of music with no massive compression (which might induce clipping), or style of music likely to induce clipping in the amp, it would probably play at 100% all day long.

For a piece of badly mastered, heavily compressed, quietly recorded / encoded (oddly enough - amps don't work well with really quiet recordings from memory), the amp is going to struggle to feed the speakers nice clean signal.

I'm talking here about performance at full power, no reason not to work at backed-off power.


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## leopard (May 1, 2015)

Jonny_C said:


> I don't think it is anywhere near as clear-cut as just not being able to "cope" at 100%.
> 
> The quality and nature of the recordings being played will make more of a difference - for a beautifully mastered / encoded "pure" piece of music with no massive compression (which might induce clipping), or style of music likely to induce clipping in the amp, it would probably play at 100% all day long.
> 
> ...


This is incorrect.

The recording quality bares no semblance as to whether the amp passes a clean signal or not.The highs and lows of a recording and how it's been mastered is down to studio technique and dynamic range of the medium and whether a system is good enough to replicate what it's being fed with,which equates to SPL which in turn is an impedance/power ratio conundrum not to mention quality of the system itself.

In my opinion the problem lies with amp of which two scenarios are possible and are both are faults that are typical of class D amplification found in low cost applications such as in-car entertainment.

1/ faulty switching frequency converters causing the amp to oscillate and overheat the speaker voice coils.

2/ Imbalance of the circuit giving a high DC offset which in turn is frying the speaker voice coils.( The higher the volume the more offset ).

The OP should have Audi inspect ( there's a joke ) the amplifier for these traits as speculating about sound levels,recording quality and sound level spl preference is evasive to the underlying problem.


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## Jonny_C (Jul 24, 2013)

leopard said:


> ]
> 
> This is incorrect.


It is not, if the combined sum of the "artificial" induced clipping created by the modern trend in digital music to enhance and level loudness via artificial dynamic compression combines with / exacerbates clipping in the amp at max amp power.

The worst thing to feed a speaker / amp combo not designed for, is square waveforms & this is exactly what clipping, however it arrives, does.

Quality of the recording was the wrong phrase to use really - quality of the encoding and compression would be a better choice.


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## leopard (May 1, 2015)

Jonny_C said:


> leopard said:
> 
> 
> > ]
> ...


Firstly you don't feed an amplifier with a square waveform from a source.It is only an amplifier which produces a a square waveform when the input/output ratio is exceeded.This is known as ringing and is designed out using negative global and local feedback.

A compressed audio recording is just that and cannot be anymore than the medium that it sits on,in contrast a highly dynamic recording is just that because the correlation between low and high volume is more acute but it still sits within the performance parameters of the medium.
In essence it would be just the equivalent of having the volume turned higher for a given recording something which the system is designed to do.Like I said the problem is nothing to do with the playback material and sits more as being an amplifier problem.


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## ttsser (Feb 27, 2017)

leopard said:


> Jonny_C said:
> 
> 
> > leopard said:
> ...


Both of you are writting utterly bombastic twoddle! Have you got any qualifications on the subject?


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## leopard (May 1, 2015)

ttsser said:


> Both of you are writting utterly bombastic twoddle! Have you got any qualifications on the subject?


LOL,

Enlighten us

I'm so looking forward to this...


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## Matrix (Apr 11, 2016)

leopard said:


> The OP should have Audi inspect.


I pity the poor technician that gets the job. [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## carrock (Mar 17, 2011)

Is the system rated at something ridiculous like 680 watts?

If the amp is flat out I am surprised the OP can tolerate that in a small enclosed space.

Speakers can be replaced. Permanent hearing damage less easy to resolve


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## aaronz (Dec 28, 2015)

Have had two replaced so far, when plugged in directly to an iPhone via USB you can not adjust or control the volume gain....this is the only way I listen to music outside of talk radio (which doesn't get loud)....

So....that being said its the speakers, never had a "quality" sound system like this have issues, at MAX the highest my volume goes is just before the "n" with the display bar when increasing or decreasing the volume.

Crap speakers if you look at them out of the car, definitely a cheaper end, mass produced speaker with a brand tagged on to it to give credibility.


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## ttsser (Feb 27, 2017)

aaronz said:


> Have had two replaced so far, when plugged in directly to an iPhone via USB you can not adjust or control the volume gain....this is the only way I listen to music outside of talk radio (which doesn't get loud)....
> 
> So....that being said its the speakers, never had a "quality" sound system like this have issues, at MAX the highest my volume goes is just before the "n" with the display bar when increasing or decreasing the volume.
> 
> Crap speakers if you look at them out of the car, definitely a cheaper end, mass produced speaker with a brand tagged on to it to give credibility.


Any chance of a photo of the speaker please, front and back?


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## ShavetheWookie (Mar 16, 2017)

Hi guys,

Been a while since I've been on and didn't realise there had been so much feedback on the post...

Anyway, an update for you. I had the speakers replaced under warranty once again at the time of last posting and guess what... The drivers side has just gone again! That means the other side will be gone within 500 miles.

There seems to be very mixed opinions on what is right and wrong, but heres the bottom line in my opinion. It's a factory fitted system that is not capable of performing through the entire volume range for more than approx. 2000 miles. I can tell you that the system performs/sounds very good at 100% when the speakers are not blown. They do not distort or make the car vibrate, perhaps the car in front, but not my cabin.

I can also tell you that this is my 3rd new Audi in a row with a B&O system and my previous 2 (both a5) both managed 20k miles each with the same treatment and suffered zero issues. The TT system is simply a grade below in the door department, or I have a faulty system.

Yes I like it loud, as in 'party in the car' loud and I don't want to hear myself singing along with Rag N Bone Man above the stereo, so it has to be loud. I also love bass and certainly won't apologise to Audi for that. What I will do though is make sure they test my entire audio system this time because if the next set blow after they tell me the system is fine, I'll be challenging them for compensation. 6 door speakers in 5500 miles is unacceptable and disappointing. Audio is the most important part of the car for me and right now its not holding up against it's upgrade cost. I have a feeling the wider system is fine though as it certainly performs well when its working.


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## Nyxx (May 1, 2012)

The loudest I could stand was no more than 60%, at that my right leg was being blasted my the door speaker.

Sounds like you will keep blowing your speakers for evermore turning then upto 100%.

At 100% my ear drums would blow before the speakers would.


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## ormandj (Mar 27, 2017)

I haven't measured an Audi, but some stock audio systems will push 100+ dB. At 100dB, you've got about fifteen minutes before you start experiencing hearing damage, and the longer you go at these levels the worse it will be. I just want to point this out to you so you understand you likely already have some damage and the longer you listen at these levels, the worse it will get. Take it from someone who has relatively bad tinnitus from multiple exposures to impulse noise, this is something you do not want. Go get your hearing tested, something like a pure tone audiogram so you know where you currently stand, and I urge you to reconsider this loud music hobby while you still have your hearing.

All of that said, you may be running into problems with distortion based on your source running the system at full output. I'm not sure how clean your source and source material is, but it's possible that may contribute to the speaker (lack thereof) longevity issues. Audi may have left no headroom in the system so 100% may be maximum on the amp causing clipping and other issues leading to the speaker problem.

At the end of the day, you may just want to settle for 90% and call it a day, or trade the vehicle. You may not get far with Audi on this one, regardless of right/wrong.

I highly encourage you to keep it at 85dB or below when possible, since you can tolerate 8 hours at this level. For every additional 3dB, cut the safe time in half (88dB == 4 hours, for example). Hearing loss is permanent, and so is tinnitus. You truly want none of either! /psaover


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## handyman (Mar 8, 2009)

Have you had a hearing test recently? I'd be concerned about hearing loss to be honest.


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## debonair (Jun 5, 2014)

60% is as high as I can take the volume and I like my music loud. I can't even comprehend anyone cranking it up to 100% unless their hearing is already impaired.

Yes you could say that the set up is flawed if you can't turn the volume up to the maximum level available but maybe they did that for a reason, to save people going deaf.


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## Mark Pred (Feb 1, 2017)

debonair said:


> 60% is as high as I can take the volume and I like my music loud. I can't even comprehend anyone cranking it up to 100% unless their hearing is already impaired.
> 
> Yes you could say that the set up is flawed if you can't turn the volume up to the maximum level available but maybe they did that for a reason, to save people going deaf.


Ditto the above - even at 50% it's loud enough. If you drove a car on the red line all the time, would you expect the engine to last long :wink:


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## Arbalest (Feb 27, 2015)

Completely agree with the other comments posted today. The OP must either already be suffering from some degree of hearing loss (hence the need to play at ridiculous volume levels) or alternatively it is a spoof post just to get a reaction.
Suggest the OP takes the sound (no pun intended) advice of ormandj and get booked in for a hearing test before blowing another set of speakers.


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## tt3600 (Apr 8, 2006)

I wonder if people need to repeat themselves when they talk to OP on a daily basis


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## debonair (Jun 5, 2014)

Pardon?

:wink:


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## daddow (Jan 1, 2017)

Arbalest said:


> Completely agree with the other comments posted today. The OP must either already be suffering from some degree of hearing loss (hence the need to play at ridiculous volume levels) or alternatively it is a spoof post just to get a reaction.
> Suggest the OP takes the sound (no pun intended) advice of ormandj and get booked in for a hearing test before blowing another set of speakers.


If he hasn't got hearing problems now he will, I think he should speak to people with hearing problems now, my friend was a singer in a pop group and he almost lip reads. I sang in a choir for some years now they all have hearing problems :lol:


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## bainsyboy (Dec 5, 2004)

They should be able to handle 100% volume but there is no way I would have mine turned up anywhere near that level. About half way is plenty loud for me and as a suffer of tinnitus I would simply advise the OP to turn it down as else you will mess your hearing up, although if you can stand the volume at 100% I would say that you have probably damaged your hearing already


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## tt3600 (Apr 8, 2006)

Forget it OP can't hear you anymore :-D


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

I've noticed on mine the input level from the radio is significantly higher than an mp3 source from an SD card for example, so if I'm listening to some music loud and then switch input to the radio it will be startlingly loud and I impulsively turn it down quick!

I love loud music, powerful bass and clean treble but so far haven't had the need to have the volume more than about 60%. I would not tolerate or expect it to cope with 90-100% - depending on the material. Some digital audio sources can contain a lot of energy in low and inaudible bass frequencies that can potentially blow a speaker.

I could easily see that if I were playing a quiet audio source at full volume and then switch to a different source with a much higher level though, there might then be a case of potential damage.


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## debonair (Jun 5, 2014)

I'll be interested to see how the sound compares from my current TTS to that in my new one when I get it. I'm sure one of my door speakers is damaged (was like this when I got the car) but it could be the source/quality so if it does the same in the new one I'll know the issue.

The Harmon Kardon in my JCW was much less sensitive to source and quality which I found much better as you could play pretty much anything and crank it up without any distortion at all.


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## ShavetheWookie (Mar 16, 2017)

No need to keep going on about my hearing chaps... I appreciate it, but it is not the topic of this thread. My hearing is perfectly fine! I think there is also some confusion that I listen to it at 90%+ for an hour or something. Try a few songs and then back down. The difference is that most journeys I'll do this. So it gets pushed hard for 5/10 mins per day at most. I can also confirm that it's no where near the volume of a live band or night club. I can't help but think those people that say they can't handle more than 50% don't get out much. Heaven help you at the O2 or any other music venue.

On a far more interesting note, I went to see my local Audi today to get it booked in and we tested 3 other B&O TT's and a B&O a4. I can confirm that they all sounded wildly different. The volume at 50% and 75% was completely different on all 4 cars using an iPhone and usb as the source. I can also tell you that the a4 sounded way better which I think confirms my earlier though about the a5 having higher quality B&O systems than these new TT's.

So... Much of this thread now seems pointless because I'm pretty sure after todays test that we all hear something different at 50% etc. It does not change the fact though that I either have a faulty system or the system is not capable of 2000 miles of hard (but short) use. Either way, Audi have told me they will continue to replace the speakers at the very least while under warranty. Their opinion/stance is also that it should not blow speakers and are keen to investigate the amp etc.


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## bainsyboy (Dec 5, 2004)

No problems at all.... Could you keep us updated, as to when you start experiencing tinnitus and what kind... Mine is a high pitch sound (used to get out all the time, as i used to Dj for a pub chain, hence ow have tinnitus or whether it's the blood pumping through the ear canal kind of tinnitus, think that one would drive me potty. 
Many thanks


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## Blackhole128 (Dec 24, 2015)

bainsyboy said:


> Role on Tinitus


You're not kidding!

I wish I hadn't listened to loud music on headphones as a teenager. I've had tinnitus since then which has got progressively worse into my 50's. I can't say I noticed it much until I hit mid-20's when it began to change and get louder and more distracting.

It affects my concentration, adversely affecting my career over the years. It gives me migraines and stops me from EVER 'hearing' silence again.

In a nutshell, it's horrid - take a hint from your blown speakers and look after your ears please! I know you think you're gonna be ok, but if you're wrong it's a rotten, life-changing mistake to make...


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## bainsyboy (Dec 5, 2004)

Mine doesn't really affect me, but after reading up on it, when I did get it, then can appreciate how it can affect others.. I cranked my speakers to about 60 tonight on the way in to work and even then it was too loud, so gord knows how the op can handle 100% max volume.... Trouble is eventually tinnitus will eventually catch up with him and then maybe he can update us on what kind of tinnitus he has got... I'm like you, miss the silence as it's always there ringing in my ears... Awful condition to have but hey if you can get your speakers replaced under warranty then what do we know lol


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## ShavetheWookie (Mar 16, 2017)

Like I said... We're not hearing the same volume. One of the TT's and the a4 were way louder than mine yesterday when tested. The other two TT's were comparable if not lower volume.


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

Never knew we had so many qualified audiologists in the forum. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jonstatt (Mar 30, 2017)

I would push to get the B&O amplifier changed. This seems to be an isolated case where the speakers are blowing repeatedly. If there was an endemic issue, there would be other reports. So assuming after all these changes that the speakers must be okay, they should focus on issues further up chain.

A number one cause of speakers blowing is amplifier distortion. Distortion is NOT always audible but can still be deadly. This is particularly the case for bass where that distortion may be in the frequencies you feel more than hear. I suspect what is happening is that bass notes are clipping, turning them into a square wave (nothing wrong with playing square waves in general I should add!). This will cause the bass cone excursion to potentially exceeding their limits or simply over power the speaker due to effectively becoming DC instead of AC and resulting in a blown driver.

The disparity between output across supposedly identical cars is interesting, but would suggest they are "calibrated" differently due to different software/firmware revisions etc. If two came out of the factory at the same time and sounded different, then that would be a head scratcher.

I can't get anywhere near 100%. I played a DVD in surround sound just for kicks and found I had to crank the volume up to 60%....forgot I had done so and switched back to radio, and gave myself a hell of a fright! Painfully loud.


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## Nyxx (May 1, 2012)

jonstatt said:


> I can't get anywhere near 100%. I played a DVD in surround sound just for kicks and found I had to crank the volume up to 60%....forgot I had done so and switched back to radio, and gave myself a hell of a fright! Painfully loud.


You need to get out more!


ShavetheWookie said:


> I can't help but think those people that say they can't handle more than 50% don't get out much. Heaven help you at the O2 or any other music venue.


 :lol: :roll:


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## leopard (May 1, 2015)

jonstatt said:


> I would push to get the B&O amplifier changed. This seems to be an isolated case where the speakers are blowing repeatedly. If there was an endemic issue, there would be other reports. So assuming after all these changes that the speakers must be okay, they should focus on issues further up chain.


Quite,my original diagnosis as per page 2 still stands :wink: @ShavetheWookie let us know what the Doctors at Audi come up with,it'll be interesting to see what the outcome is.


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