# No more tax disc!



## Adam-tt (Apr 3, 2010)

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25223631

About time!

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

An interesting move especially the option to pay by direct debit at a 5% premium.

How long before we see further RFL price rises quoted as 'only' £xx per month?
Making it 'easier' to pay in instalments will no doubt make it easier to raise prices. Or am I just a cynic?


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

I was about to type pretty much the same thing brittan. Beat me to it.


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Won't it be also be more difficult to catch offenders. Yea ANPR will still catch people as it already does. But the avg bobby on the beat won't be able to instantly see at a glance if a vehicle is unlicensed. 
in my opinion VED should be scrapped and replaced with another form of tax, added to fuel duty would be an acceptable idea This way you only pay for the miles you do and "gas guzzler" cars still get taxed proportionally to more eco friendly.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

brian1978 said:


> Won't it be also be more difficult to catch offenders. Yea ANPR will still catch people as it already does. But the avg bobby on the beat won't be able to instantly see at a glance if a vehicle is unlicensed.


Unless the information is made (easily) accessible to the public, then it's going to have its flaws. Buying a car SH will be harder as you won't know when the taxt is up for renewal. You could be told anything.

You'd also have to be sent reminders as not having a disc in sight, will mean forgetful idiots like me are probably going to get caught out.


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

Kell said:


> Unless the information is made (easily) accessible to the public,


The information is already available here: https://www.taxdisc.direct.gov.uk/EvlPo ... =directgov


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Kell said:


> You'd also have to be sent reminders as not having a disc in sight, will mean forgetful idiots like me are probably going to get caught out.


Same here I'm terrible for remembering stuff. But maybe they are banking on this as an additional revenue generator :?


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## phil3012 (Jul 25, 2008)

brian1978 said:


> Kell said:
> 
> 
> > You'd also have to be sent reminders as not having a disc in sight, will mean forgetful idiots like me are probably going to get caught out.
> ...


 :? You do get reminders though that it's due a few weeks before.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

brian1978 said:


> Won't it be also be more difficult to catch offenders. Yea ANPR will still catch people as it already does. But the avg bobby on the beat won't be able to instantly see at a glance if a vehicle is unlicensed.


I don't think the average bobby on the beat has bothered checking tax disks for a long time. I know a few people who don't display their disk because it clutters up the windscreen, and nothing has ever been said to them (they have it in their glove box just in case).


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

brittan said:


> Kell said:
> 
> 
> > Unless the information is made (easily) accessible to the public,
> ...


I was thinking it would need to be even easier. A free to d/l app into which you simply type the number plate.

It would also need to be up to date too. That website mentions that if a vehicle's been recently SORN'ed then it might still show up as taxed...


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Spandex said:


> brian1978 said:
> 
> 
> > Won't it be also be more difficult to catch offenders. Yea ANPR will still catch people as it already does. But the avg bobby on the beat won't be able to instantly see at a glance if a vehicle is unlicensed.
> ...


Where I live they defiantly do. The town where I work they don't charge for parking so no traffic wardens. The local police deal with the traffic infringements like parking on yellow lines etc...... they most defiantly check tax discs here. Not unusual for them to pull into a carpark and ticket all the cars with illegal plates no tax a wheel outside the parking bay etc....

One would think they have no criminals to catch here :wink:

I have to say I've never personaly known someone to put it in the glovebox because it clusters up the window. Wouldn't you get fined for not displaying it correctly?


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

as far as i know , it is currently an offence not to have it " displayed ".


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

It's technically an offence, but I don't think they'd ever bother fining you if you had it in the glove box. One friend was talking to a Police officer (who was 'marshaling' at some sort of roadside survey) and they asked him where his tax disk was - I think because they were annoyed with him because he was refusing to do the survey - and he grabbed it from the glove box. They just told him to display it in future and let him go on his way.

We have traffic wardens where I live and they patrol my road regularly because it's residents parking only. They don't check dates on tax disks and don't do anything if it's missing completely.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

interesting comment there from Spandy,, but, if a car sits for 5 minutes in one of the urban sprawl council estates without a disc on show there will be a fast response , probablly accompanied by TV crew , along immediatly. i guess its ok if you are one of Osbornes friends.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Adam-tt said:


> http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25223631
> 
> About time!
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


HUH !!! i remember the day when a Guiness label would do the job !!


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Spandex said:


> It's technically an offence, but I don't think they'd ever bother fining you if you had it in the glove box. One friend was talking to a Police officer (who was 'marshaling' at some sort of roadside survey) and they asked him where his tax disk was - I think because they were annoyed with him because he was refusing to do the survey - and he grabbed it from the glove box. They just told him to display it in future and let him go on his way.
> 
> We have traffic wardens where I live and they patrol my road regularly because it's residents parking only. They don't check dates on tax disks and don't do anything if it's missing completely.


Must be different down where you live, up here they will fine you pretty much every time is something's out of order. The wardens in the town where I live were recently I the local papers for being overly strict with parking offences. They were measuring the distance to the kerb to the wheels of cars and ticketing people who were even a few mm over the 50cm limit. They would have no issues about ticketing for incorrectly displaying a tax disc

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local ... re-2407065


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

Only had a copy on my bike for years since real one got nicked one day.

Keep the real one under the seat, never had a problem with cops either - think they accept toe rags nick discs from bikes parked up in bike bays in London all the time


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Shug750S said:


> Only had a copy on my bike for years since real one got nicked one day.
> 
> Keep the real one under the seat, never had a problem with cops either - think they accept toe rags nick discs from bikes parked up in bike bays in London all the time


I think in situations like this cops will use common sense, but I have a feeling they might be less sympathetic to the excuse "it was cluttering up the window" :lol:


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

brian1978 said:


> Shug750S said:
> 
> 
> > Only had a copy on my bike for years since real one got nicked one day.
> ...


Well, that's obviously not what you'd tell them...

To be honest, they're looking for people with no tax, not people *with *tax but the disk not clearly visible. Sure, they'll tell you to sort it out, but I've never heard of anyone get done for having tax, but not displaying the disk properly.

Oh, and parking wardens here will do you for anything they can, including the edge of one wheel a few millimeters up on the kerb, or outside a marked bay, but they still don't look at tax disks.


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Spandex said:


> brian1978 said:
> 
> 
> > Shug750S said:
> ...


Prob less of a problem for them new they can check instantly if it's taxed or not, I'd imagine before they could do this they might be more annoyed at people wasting their time by not displaying it. I still wouldn't not put it on my window, all it takes is a jobsworth and you have a £90 fine.


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## Bartsimpsonhead (Aug 14, 2011)

I wonder if not having to display a valid tax disk in the window would make it more attractive to dishonest people to clone number plates? 
If there's no second way of validating the car's registration other than checking with ANPR, a simple cloned plate would do away with the need for paying road tax when someone else does it for you; disqualified drivers or people with bad driving records/points could drive with relative impunity (as long as they don't do anything stupid and get stopped again); and might make it more tempting for those who have cloned plates to drive off without paying for fuel, etc...


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> I wonder if not having to display a valid tax disk in the window would make it more attractive to dishonest people to clone number plates?
> If there's no second way of validating the car's registration other than checking with ANPR, a simple cloned plate would do away with the need for paying road tax when someone else does it for you; disqualified drivers or people with bad driving records/points could drive with relative impunity (as long as they don't do anything stupid and get stopped again); and might make it more tempting for those who have cloned plates to drive off without paying for fuel, etc...


I think it's probably easier to make a half decent fake tax disk than it is to get a plate made up these days.

I think if the Police have stopped a car on a cloned plate, they're probably going to find out one way or another anyway once they start asking the driver some questions (like "who are you?", for example).


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## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

I read the headline just as my new tax disc turned up this morning. 
I paid for my tax on Monday, when the MID finally updated and let me do it online. I drove around with an expired disc in the window fairly certain I would not get stopped for it.


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Spandex said:


> Bartsimpsonhead said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if not having to display a valid tax disk in the window would make it more attractive to dishonest people to clone number plates?
> ...


Plenty of company's on ebay make plates with little or no checks.

Making a fake tax disc would be incredibly difficult as it's got a barcode and a hologram on it. And your reg plate would still flash no tax on ANPR cameras. But a cloned plate would look perfectly legal unless stopped and questioned. And if you drive carefully when are you ever going to get stopped. I've been stopped by police only 2 times in my life one was for speeding (in my young and irrasponsible days :mrgreen and one was because the car was registered in a woman's name and it drew suspicion as I was driving it.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

brian1978 said:


> Plenty of company's on ebay make plates with little or no checks.
> 
> Making a fake tax disc would be incredibly difficult as it's got a barcode and a hologram on it. And your reg plate would still flash no tax on ANPR cameras. But a cloned plate would look perfectly legal unless stopped and questioned. And if you drive carefully when are you ever going to get stopped. I've been stopped by police only 2 times in my life one was for speeding (in my young and irrasponsible days :mrgreen and one was because the car was registered in a woman's name and it drew suspicion as I was driving it.


That's why I said "half decent". It's not going to fool anyone close up, but if they're looking that closely, you're already in trouble, as they'll be checking everything including your ID.

That's the point really. A false plate will help you avoid a lot of Police attention, but if they do start asking questions you're probably stuffed. A tax disk isn't going to change any of that, which is why it's superfluous.

<edit>People who are breaking the law get stopped for little unrelated things all the time, which is why the Police will usually run your plates and check your details just in case. It could be anything - parking in a bus stop, leaving the engine running while you went into a shop, smuggling eggs, etc.


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## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

I was stopped because the police thought I *may* have crossed a double white line during an overtake. That's why they checked my insurance on the crappy MID. :roll: I'm sure they would have checked my tax at the same time, but at no point did he look at the disc on the windscreen.

p.s. my camera footage shows I didn't cross the double white line.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Yes, I heard that. It was always an offence not to display as well as not having paid the duty.

Good point about cloned plates no longer missing a genuine tax disc to accompany them to give the game away. This would only be useful close up however. The game can be played right now with a beer mat stuck in the window :wink:

What will people do with their fancyTT disc holders now then? Family portrait cameo perhaps?


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

John-H said:


> What will people do with their fancyTT disc holders now then?


Use as coaster for beer/wine/whisky glass


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Spandex said:


> brian1978 said:
> 
> 
> > Plenty of company's on ebay make plates with little or no checks.
> ...


Your just disagreeing with people for the sake of disagreement :lol:

It would make it easier to fool the authorities as with a cloned plate the car sitting parked in the street would look to everyone police or otherwise look taxed and 100% legal with absolutely no way of knowing it was unlicensed. If however it had to display a tax disc then it would be far more difficult to hide the fact it was illegal and unlicensed as a forged tax disc would also be required.

Also the incentive to display cloned plates to avoid tax would be greater as one less offence is needed to be committed to pull it off.

But I have a feeling that you will disagree no matter what I write I give up :roll:


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## thenewguy (Oct 4, 2012)

My son got fined about three or four years ago for "failure to display". Car was parked outside the house at the time, quiet street in Kilwinning. Must have been the first and only time a traffic warden had ever set foot in the area. Not happy but just had to take it on the chin and pay up.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

brian1978 said:


> Your just disagreeing with people for the sake of disagreement :lol:


Yeah, *that's* the only reason I could possibly have for disagreeing with you... :lol:

If it helps, the Police also disagree with you. They've officially welcomed the changes.


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

brian1978 said:


> ............It would make it easier to fool the authorities as with a cloned plate the car sitting parked in the street would look to everyone police or otherwise look taxed and 100% legal with absolutely no way of knowing it was unlicensed. If however it had to display a tax disc then it would be far more difficult to hide the fact it was illegal and unlicensed as a forged tax disc would also be required. ..........................


 This would be true if the beat bobby, traffic wardens and the general public took any notice of windsceen tax discs. However since the online system was harmonised with MOT & Insurance I doubt they bother.

Of course a much better system would be to have the tax AND insurance displayed but somewhere prominent, like for a totally random example, at the beginning of the no plate. :roll:


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Spandex said:


> brian1978 said:
> 
> 
> > Your just disagreeing with people for the sake of disagreement :lol:
> ...


Spandy you literally argued about the colour of shite on a thread I posted in :lol:


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

brian1978 said:


> Spandy you literally argued about the colour of shite on a thread I posted in :lol:


Heh... Much more entertaining than all the stuff you seem to keep arguing about on here...


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Spandex said:


> brian1978 said:
> 
> 
> > Spandy you literally argued about the colour of shite on a thread I posted in :lol:
> ...


Pot kettle much?


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

brian1978 said:


> Spandex said:
> 
> 
> > brian1978 said:
> ...


Which one do you want to be? :wink:


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

Why do I feel like the gooseberry? :roll:


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## g0rd (Nov 18, 2013)

Looking forward to getting a little bit of screen space back but motorbikers will be most happy. No more trying to find a space to put a tax disc holder and fear of it being stolen.


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## Inked (Sep 8, 2012)

Tax discs displayed on car windscreens, a staple of British motoring for almost a century, are to disappear, George Osborne will announce in his Autumn Statement . 
Instead of displaying a disc to prove that a car is fully taxed, motorists will instead register their car online.

Traffic cameras will then automatically track vehicles on the road and identify those that are not registered for road tax. 
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## igotone (Mar 10, 2010)

Well all the information on insured and taxed vehicles has been held on databases to which the police have access for some years so it's not going to help detect any offenders, it's just that the tax disc has become obsolete - the police can access this info easily anyway so it does make sense to drop the tax disc.


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## alexp (Jun 25, 2013)

My TT will look better without one!


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## Rosso TT (Dec 25, 2010)

Here, down under, in Victoria, has been announced 6 months ago that from the 1st of January the rego sticker ( tax disc) will be scrapped saving the state government something like 22 million AUD per year, of course us motorists won't see a cent.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

So cameras will be reading plates for doing the check.
What about cars with illegally spaced plates..hopefully they will be receiving a little fine in the post, unless the cameras can't read them..
Steve


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## Templar (Mar 9, 2012)

No account for cloned number plates then.

personally I think tax discs are ugly.


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## igotone (Mar 10, 2010)

V6RUL said:


> So cameras will be reading plates for doing the check.
> What about cars with illegally spaced plates..hopefully they will be receiving a little fine in the post, unless the cameras can't read them..
> Steve


It's police patrols who tend to pull you for letter/number spacing anyway, and that won't change.


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## prop135 (Aug 8, 2011)

Chatting with friends of mine that work in this area, the reason for the delay in getting rid of the tax disc is concerns over compliance with the requirements to tax a car. At the minute the amount of untaxed cars is low enough for traffic police to deal with it when it appears on the ANPR cameras. If the need for a disc goes then they are worried that the number of untaxed vehicles on the road will rise.

This has been weighed against the cost of printing a tax disc, with all its security features, and the decision made to scrap the disc.

Any copper on the street that does a vehicles check with his force control room will automatically get all the tax/mot/ins as part of the check I believe.


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## Templar (Mar 9, 2012)

I believe that traffic wardens have the ability to report and un taxed vehicle straight to DVLA but no authority to check the insurance/tax/ MoT database like the police can.


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## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

Here's an idea. Can we keep displaying our final tax disc after it expires? Like a little keepsake of the past?


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Pugwash69 said:


> Here's an idea. Can we keep displaying our final tax disc after it expires? Like a little keepsake of the past?


It's your windscreen. Don't see why not 

I was also thinking. What about employees driving for an employer. or just borrowing a friends car. You are responsible for making sure the vehicle is taxed, motd, insured and safe.

Easy to check the others at a glance as the owner should have the relevant documentation. But what about tax are we just to take them at their word?


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## igotone (Mar 10, 2010)

brian1978 said:


> Pugwash69 said:
> 
> 
> > Here's an idea. Can we keep displaying our final tax disc after it expires? Like a little keepsake of the past?
> ...


Hmmm. Good point actually Brian.


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## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

Better get my posh tax disc holders on eBay, won't be worth a penny by late next year.


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## Templar (Mar 9, 2012)

Old tax discs might become collectable. .


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## brian1978 (Jul 10, 2013)

Templar said:


> Old tax discs might become collectable. .


Would have to be very old, I'd imagine they are already collectable, but as they have made millions of them I can't imagine they will be particularly rare even taking into account that most people bin them. 
I'd imagine unused perfect condition ones with the perforations still intact could become somewhat valuable.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

It's amazing what tat people collect so there's a chance. I'll sell you mine :lol:


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Well I just cleared my loft, store rooms, house, cupboards and cabinets out of unwanted items which took me the best part of four weeks. I won't start a new collection in a hurry :roll:


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## Bartsimpsonhead (Aug 14, 2011)

I saw one of those Motorway Cops programmes on TV the other day, and they had a feature on cars driving around on show plates - apparently there's loads of websites selling them, they can make them look fancy with wacky typefaces and backgrounds or just look like standard plates (they even had a car with the PM's official number plate cloned on it), so getting a reg number cloned wouldn't be a problem.

Two interesting things they did show were a number plate that was stuck to a car bumper that will shatter when it's tried to be removed (to stop the theft of plates) and number plates with built-in transponders containing vehicle and driver info that can be read at distance and even logs when its been removed from one vehicle and applied to another.
They also showed how in places like Sweden where they take vehicle cloning seriously only the government can supply plates which are made in one factory and delivered by recorded delivery!


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## anthony_839 (Apr 9, 2013)

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> I saw one of those Motorway Cops programmes on TV the other day, and they had a feature on cars driving around on show plates - apparently there's loads of websites selling them, they can make them look fancy with wacky typefaces and backgrounds or just look like standard plates (they even had a car with the PM's official number plate cloned on it), so getting a reg number cloned wouldn't be a problem.
> 
> Two interesting things they did show were a number plate that was stuck to a car bumper that will shatter when it's tried to be removed (to stop the theft of plates) and number plates with built-in transponders containing vehicle and driver info that can be read at distance and even logs when its been removed from one vehicle and applied to another.
> They also showed how in places like Sweden where they take vehicle cloning seriously only the government can supply plates which are made in one factory and delivered by recorded delivery!


bit off topic mate,

we are talking about tax disk's not number plates


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## Bartsimpsonhead (Aug 14, 2011)

Read the earlier posts about _how not having a tax disc as a means of identifying a car might make it easier to clone a plate and drive without having to pay for your own road fund licence._

If anyone with a Moro blue Coupe would like to post-up their reg. numbers, I'll make a start and order-up a few fake plates for mine - preferably if you don't have points on your licence (yet  ), or drive like a nutter  (joking!)

If anybody has a silver QS and wants a number for a false plate I know one starting GV05... :twisted: (again - only joking!)


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## anthony_839 (Apr 9, 2013)

Bartsimpsonhead said:


> Read the earlier posts about _how not having a tax disc as a means of identifying a car might make it easier to clone a plate and drive without having to pay for your own road fund licence._
> 
> If anyone with a Moro blue Coupe would like to post-up their reg. numbers, I'll make a start and order-up a few fake plates for mine - preferably if you don't have points on your licence (yet  ), or drive like a nutter  (joking!)
> 
> If anybody has a silver QS and wants a number for a false plate I know one starting GV05... :twisted: (again - only joking!)


 lol! u fcker


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