# "dEF" Warning on Instrument Panel



## TTS_James (Oct 9, 2014)

Hi all,

I've now had my car for a whole two years!

Unfortunately, another issue has occurred during my ownership. This time it's the instrument panel cluster.

During the weekend, the EPC (Electronic Power Control) light continued to stay illuminated, even after a startup. The miles trip also showed the "DEF" error code, which I believe from googling can happen if the cluster is failing or there's an internal memory issue. See pictures below.

Has anyone else experienced this? I own a TTS '58 model. IMO the car isn't that old and this problem should no be occurring after 70,000 miles.

I will be ringing up Audi tomorrow to see if they can provide any insight into this. I've had a mechanic have a quick check with a VAGCOM, and he has stated there are lots of faults in the system, all communication faults / control unit fault. Really don't want to be shelling out on a whole new instrumental panel.

Regards,

James


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, DEF means there is a fault in the instruments, "take to Audi".
You also have a brake system fault, check brake fluid level.
Get all the "old" faults reset & see what returns after a run & rescan.
Hoggy.


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## TTS_James (Oct 9, 2014)

As always Hoggy - thank you. Will let you all know how I get on.


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## Dannymellor (May 13, 2012)

I have this issue. Randomly came on during a long motorway drive.

VagCom Fault shows 00003 - Control Module
014 - Defective

It hasn't gone off and I have tried clearing the code but comes straight back up.

Any ideas?


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## MarksBlackTT (Nov 29, 2016)

Just hope it's not your ECU like it was on mine, very similar issues


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## Dannymellor (May 13, 2012)

What issue did you have?


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## MarksBlackTT (Nov 29, 2016)

Engine management light flashed up intermittently at around 80mph, but car drove perfectly! If I sped up or slowed down it would disappear. Fault codes of P001/2/3 showed up. 4 new plugs and 4 new coil packs made no difference. Further investigation revealed a breached ECU. Water, grit, salt and muck off the road had got into the seam of the unit and was slowly perishing the inner circuit board. Reconditioned ECU and all is now well.


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## danielW2599 (Mar 20, 2009)

Ive had the same come up as the OP this morning. Exactly the same fault lights. How much did it cost to get repaired?


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

The ECU is located under the plenum, tucked under the windshield. This 'How To' will help you get to it -

*How to: Plenum Removal for Drain Inspection & Cleaning*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1979747


















.


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## Dee79 (11 mo ago)

TTS_James said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've now had my car for a whole two years!
> 
> ...


Our ESP comes on and goes into lymp mode all blowing little to no power. Now this DEF has come on


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## JMCK (11 mo ago)

Dannymellor said:


> I have this issue. Randomly came on during a long motorway drive.
> 
> VagCom Fault shows 00003 - Control Module
> 014 - Defective
> ...


Did you ever get to the bottom of this fault?


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## jasonchan (5 mo ago)

I have been researching DEF errors for a long while but seem no info available on how to resolve it but I'm happy to share here that I managed resolve my DEF error recently. I took out my dash instruments out and open it up and found there were 2 pins were oxidize. Clean it up and DEF never return.

To my surprise this helps me to resolve my remote distance problem as well. Previously I have to stand beside the car to unlock my car but now I can unlock and lock it from far away. Hope this helps and not sure it the same DEF problem but worth a try.


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## Steviejones133 (Aug 18, 2021)

Arghhhhh! 🤬 I had this pop up today out of the blue. Parked up at the supermarket fine…went back and started the car and noticed the dash lit up like a Christmas tree - Audi’s sick way of wishing me a merry one coincidental??










No EML or anything on the left. Car drive as normal on the way home. Turning off the ignition, only the warning lights on the left stayed lit for a few seconds before going off.

Out with the trusty OBDEleven and the fault 00003 - control module - 17 - faulty - static. I ran another Scan after clearing all faults (there were one or two others that keep popping back up for databus on infotainment, CAN for radio etc but nothing remotely relating to airbags, ABS, steering etc……

After clearing and rescanning, the dash display remains unchanged from the above picture.

Ive read a few VCDS threads that say it might be related to service indicator reset - mine is currently showing service due in a few days or 7200m (I’ve done 1800m since major service done by VAG this time last year).











Anyone have any ideas?


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

Looks like "*DEF*" is a VAG warning used across multiple platforms for instrument panel failure -

_"DEF means the panel has an internal memory fault and needs repairing or replacing. May come up as code __*65535*__ or _*00003*_, control unit fault or internal memory fault."_

*Audi A3: 1999 -*
_If control unit in dash panel insert detects a ROM fault, "dEF" is displayed on trip recorder.
‒ If "dEF" appears, replace dash panel insert ._

*Seat LEON: 2017 - *
_Fault Display - 
If there is a fault in the instrument panel, the letters DEF will appear in the trip recorder display. Have the fault repaired immediately, as far as is possible._


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## Steviejones133 (Aug 18, 2021)

Urghhhh, that’s what I had feared. Maybe why the warning lights don’t clear when clearing the DTC - as soon as I turn the ignition, they’re back again. A previous poster above said he had success by contact cleaning but I’m guessing that ain’t gonna work in this scenario?

When I first got the car, I had some intermittent problems with the DIS illumination - worked sometimes, but then was dim or off. It has worked perfectly for over 6 maths now with do dimming or the like, so I kinda thought the cluster may have ”dried out” as when I got the car, there were some clear signs it had water ingress at some point which had led to mould around the cluster.

Ive seen some places in the UK that offer a refurb service for the instrument panel such as these guys









Audi TT MK2 Instrument Cluster Processor Instrument Motor Repair


Audi TT MK2 Instrument Cluster or Speedometer problems ? Cartronix are specialists for Audi Cluster repairs. Cartronix are Instrument Cluster Repair Specialists.




cartronix.co.uk





Would there be any other way to resolve this without doing the refurb, I wonder?


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## FNChaos (Nov 30, 2016)

An internal memory fault means your cluster failed its self-check and therefore can't be trusted to receive / transmit information correctly (similar to the fault you'd get if you've got a defective RAM module on your computer).

Since you've had water ingress issues in the past there is a good chance you'll find some corrosion between connectors. I'd try reseating everything that can be plugged / unplugged first and see what happens.


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## Steviejones133 (Aug 18, 2021)

Thanks guys, this is new territory for me. I’m sure I can find how to remove the cluster but how to dismantle and clean contacts would be a new thing to me…….any advice appreciated


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## FNChaos (Nov 30, 2016)

IanPG's color MFA video shows how to separate the cluster from it's case.




No need to strip things down further, just separate the two boards, clean up the contacts (if needed) and reassemble.
If this doesn't fix your problem then you're better off sending it out for refurb rather than risk damage (still worth the time to try... might get lucky )


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

While this is covered in the Workshop Manuals, Ian has this YouTube video on how to remove the dash pod. The post below also includes a few links to UK shops that can repair the dash pod -








FAQ - Instrument Cluster Dash Pod (J285) Failure


01317 - Instrument Cluster (J285): No Communications Possible Causes CAN-Databus Wiring/Connectors from/to Instrument Cluster (J285) faulty Fault(s) stored in Instrument Cluster (J285) Possible Solutions Check CAN-Databus Wiring/Connectors from/to Instrument Cluster (J285) Check Measuring Value...




www.ttforum.co.uk


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## Steviejones133 (Aug 18, 2021)

Thanks for the videos guys, getting cluster out looks easy enough - separating the two parts of the casing looked a bit fiddly, maybe if I used some wedges of thin plastic once each locking tab had been released to keep them released it might be a bit easier, but once he’s in, it looks like the only thing holding the two boards together is just the white rectangular ~32 pin connector blocks??

I guess if I do have a crack at it and do find oxidised pins etc, it’d be best to use some contact cleaner on a q-tip or the like rather than spraying?

Now……safety first whilst I’m using the car like it is now. Obviously it’s lit up like a Christmas tree with various fault lights on, however a full scan doesn’t bring up any ABS warnings etc so ……..is the car still safe to drive in this state???


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## Steviejones133 (Aug 18, 2021)

Well, strange things today……got in the car this afternoon and started her up, everything back to normal - instrument cluster with no warning lights lit up and no “DEF” message where the trip odometer should be…..weird?

I had several small journeys to make, and I did three or four start/stop/lock trips and each time the dash was normal. On my last one home, reverted to the xmas illuminations and the DEF message. That’s how I’ve parked up for the evening. No issues whilst driving earlier.

If this “DEF” message is “defective”, I’m wondering how it can go from being defective one minute, then being non-defective and back to being defective!!!

If it was a corrupted ROM, then surely there’s no way it would un-corrupt itself and go back to normal and back to corrupted. I’ve not done any coding to the cluster so it’s stock OEM so I’m a bit baffled………


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## Radar (Dec 30, 2021)

Corroded/bad connectors can cause intermittent issues which is what you appear to have, maybe? I'd suggest following the steps the other recommended. Reseat connectors/look for corrosion, etc.


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## Wormrider (6 mo ago)

Electrical gremlins are only going to get worse with EVs. Cleaning the corroded connectors and possibly using some dielectric grease to maintain good connections is probably the best way forward. Fingers crossed.

As an aside, the rpm needle in my MK6 Golf R on day decided to go on a rampage. I car would idle at 4K rpm and went past 8K rpm when driving in any gear. A day later it went back to normal. Been fine for 3 months now. WTF?


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## Wolvez (Jun 22, 2018)

Steviejones133 said:


> Well, strange things today……got in the car this afternoon and started her up, everything back to normal - instrument cluster with no warning lights lit up and no “DEF” message where the trip odometer should be…..weird?
> 
> I had several small journeys to make, and I did three or four start/stop/lock trips and each time the dash was normal. On my last one home, reverted to the xmas illuminations and the DEF message. That’s how I’ve parked up for the evening. No issues whilst driving earlier.
> 
> ...


Corrosion can cause intermittent problem like no start, no crank and then without doing anything it would start like there's no problem.

Corrosion can also make module do weird things. Example what Corroded CANBUS wiring can do. Unbelievable how many times I tried before I catch it on video.


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## Steviejones133 (Aug 18, 2021)

Well, it’s been a couple of days and whilst I haven’t had Time to remove the cluster to contact clean, the DEF message and Xmas tree warning lights haven’t come back…..will keep an eye on it and remove and clean the cluster if needed.


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## Wolvez (Jun 22, 2018)

Steviejones133 said:


> Well, it’s been a couple of days and whilst I haven’t had Time to remove the cluster to contact clean, the DEF message and Xmas tree warning lights haven’t come back…..will keep an eye on it and remove and clean the cluster if needed.


Keep in mind the cluster is also the immobilizer. It's possible to cause a no start. Too much hastle when it fail to start while your away from home.


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