# Intermittent Dashboard Failure



## lpjr86 (Oct 30, 2019)

Hi guys,

been having an issue with my 2010 pre facelift TT for a month now. Sequence of events:

1) After being parked for a few days, got in and started driving, then realised speedo, rev counter, fuel gauge weren't working. All warning lights were lit up on the dash. Car still drove fine, drove it straight home after going where I was going.
2) Drove it once more out of necessity - instrument cluster had no signs of life.
3) Next time I went to start the car, dash completely dead, on starting the engine it turns over for approx 1 second, then dies.
4) Sent dashboard off to ECU Testing: they tested the dash and didn't find a fault, but I had it repaired anyway incase it was an intermittent fault.
5) Dash came back, plugged it back in, car worked fine for 3-4 days.
6) Dash dead again. Car won't start. Reset all fault codes with OBD2. Dash comes on again. Car works.
7) Now - dash (and therefore car) is just intermittently working or not working. It has been terrible weather so wondering whether that could have something to do with it?

Other things like radio, heater etc are still working fine.

Things I've tried:
1) Getting dashboard repaired by Automotive ECU Testing - ECU Repair and Exchange
2) Removing negative connection from battery, turning on the ignition, turning off the ignition, reconnecting the battery, turning on the ignition. Car worked after this but it was working before I disconnected the battery on this occasion anyway. 2 hours later same issues.

Any ideas?

PS: I'm in Brighton/Hove in case anyone is nearby with a VCDS!
PPS: Only other electrical issue I've encountered thats been happening before this, is an intermittent daytime running light.


```
OBD2 codes (when the dash is malfunctioning - I know about the door lock issue, which is the only code that shows when dash is working):

OBD2:

Engine:
49493
P0513 - Incorrect Immobilizer Key (Immobilizer pending SAE J1930 approval)

ABS:
01317 - Control Module in Instrument Cluster (J285)
00474 - Control Module for Immobilizer (J334)

Power steering:
00750 - Warning Lamp
01317 - Control Module in Instrument Cluster (J285)

Airbags:
01317 - Control Module in Instrument Cluster (J285)

Central electronics:
02395 - Parking light right front (M3)
01317 - Control Module in Instrument Cluster (J285)

Driver's door:
00928 - Locking Module for Central Locking: Front Driver Side (F220)
01317 - Control Module in Instrument Cluster (J285)

Front passenger's door:
01553 - Ctrl.lock. motor, passengers door (V57), UNLOCK
00929 - Locking Module for Central Locking: Front Passenger Side (F221)
01317 - Control Module in Instrument Cluster (J285)

Steering wheel:
01317 - Control Module in Instrument Cluster (J285)

Heater & air conditioning:
01206 - Signal for Duration of Ignition Off Time
01299 - Diagnostic Interface for Data Bus (J533)
01317 - Control Module in Instrument Cluster (J285)

Sound system:
01317 - Control Module in Instrument Cluster (J285)

Radio:
01317 - Control Module in Instrument Cluster (J285)
00857 - CD Changer Unit (R41)

Telephone:
01317 - Control Module in Instrument Cluster (J285)

CAN network gateway:
00474 - Control Module for Immobilizer (J334)
01317 - Control Module in Instrument Cluster (J285)
```
Obtained with Carista 4.0.4 for iOS.
Download app: ‎Carista OBD2
Facebook: Log in to Facebook


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

lpjr86 said:


> PS: I'm in Brighton/Hove in case anyone is nearby with a VCDS!


@ work in Horsham until about 5:30, so not too far. If you are totally stuck and need VCDS then a trip down your way isn't out of the question...
You probably don't have access to the forum PM system yet, so you can send me a mail via my contact form.

Having said that it looks like Carista isn't connecting to the cluster. So I'm not sure if VCDS will be able to do any better.


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## lpjr86 (Oct 30, 2019)

Hi pcbbc, thanks for your speedy response!

I don't actually need to use the car for anything right now so wouldn't want to get you to drive down just to try it out, I'll wait to see if anyone can suggest anything to try.

I rang Caffyns Audi and they said as a first step they would diagnose with VCDS - so interesting that it possibly wouldn't be worth it anyway. [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

lpjr86 said:


> Hi pcbbc, thanks for your speedy response!
> Interesting that it possibly wouldn't be worth it anyway. [smiley=bigcry.gif]


NP. I'm happy to give it a go regardless. Hit me up next week if you need to.


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## John949 (Apr 12, 2017)

Your faults suggest that the Instrument cluster is not putting any messages on the CAN Bus. If you have a multimeter then remove the cluster and look for the Orange/Lilac and Orange/Brown wires in the connector. Measure the resistance between them. It should be in the tens of KOhms. 1K or less means there is a short somewhere. Open circuit means a broken wire somewhere. Also check that the pins haven't been pushed back in the connector etc.

I would have thought the ECU repair people would have used the CAN bus to test it so the cluster out to be OK. If you do hook up with pcbbc, ask him nicely to bring his CAN sniffer as that will quickly show what's happening on the bus and confirm or disprove my theory.

See also

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/01317


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## lpjr86 (Oct 30, 2019)

@John949 thanks for the reply. I went and bought a multimeter, removed the cluster again. I'm presuming I would need to remove the connector plug as I can't see a way to see the wires properly or probe them?










As I wasn't sure what to do with the connector testing I checked a few other things:

1) I read on another thread (https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/h ... sh.202406/) reports of an intermittent dash relating to rear lights - I removed both of mine and checked them for water etc, and also the pins for this issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic7kqyK ... e=youtu.be (grounding issue causing burning out on a pin) - both sides looked fine (tiny but of condensation in the rear drivers side light)

2) with the instrument cowl etc removed, I unplugged and then plugged back in the cluster, turned on the ignition and generally gave it a good wiggle and move about - seemingly no effect - except there was one point where I had the cluster resting on top of the steering column and plugged in, and the cluster was continually turning on and off rapidly. I managed to get this to happen a few times, but it didn't seem to be 100% related to movement/position of the cluster/wires.

3) I checked most of the fuses in the drivers side fuse box - including fuse 33 with I saw someone recommend to triple check on another post (can't find it atm, think it was @hoggy).

Currently I've left cluster loose in the car.


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## Taylortony (Feb 10, 2012)

I had similar you know, but no fault found by Audi and call out people, it started working after 4 or 5 days and worked perfect since, mine had sat a week or so and only done short trips, I believe a low battery may have been the cause. Problem was Audi rescue disconnected the battery before reading the car thus wiping any codes.


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

Yes, you can disassemble the plug and you will get better access to the contacts.

But it's usually easier to find some solid core wire of the correct diameter and push it Into the holes of the pins you want to test. Not too thick or you may damage the connector.

If you have on old Ethernet network cable to hand that you don't mind sacrificing, then chop it up and that would probably be ideal diameter. You could also use a small sewing needle as a probe extension, that's worked for me in the past when needing to probe plug sockets.


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## lpjr86 (Oct 30, 2019)

Taylortony said:


> I had similar you know, but no fault found by Audi and call out people, it started working after 4 or 5 days and worked perfect since, mine had sat a week or so and only done short trips, I believe a low battery may have been the cause. Problem was Audi rescue disconnected the battery before reading the car thus wiping any codes.


@Taylortony my car doesn't get much use - just on the weekend and short trips to supermarket most of the time, so I did originally think it might be the battery.

I took it to Halfords for a battery health check and the young lad thought it was ok, but didn't seem 100% sure. However - it will turn the engine over no problem every time, which I would have thought to be a symptom of a strong battery, and that the cluster would require no where near as much power as the starter etc? :?


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## lpjr86 (Oct 30, 2019)

pcbbc said:


> Yes, you can disassemble the plug and you will get better access to the contacts.
> 
> But it's usually easier to find some solid core wire of the correct diameter and push it Into the holes of the pins you want to test. Not too thick or you may damage the connector.
> 
> If you have on old Ethernet network cable to hand that you don't mind sacrificing, then chop it up and that would probably be ideal diameter. You could also use a small sewing needle as a probe extension, that's worked for me in the past when needing to probe plug sockets.


How do you know which holes are for which pins/wires without disassembling? :-|


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

lpjr86 said:


> How do you know which holes are for which pins/wires without disassembling? :-|


You find yourself a pinout for the sockets. Having said that I can't immediately locate one for the MK2...  
Perhaps there's something in the knowledge base?
But even if you disassemble, it doesn't help unless you know the colour of the wire you are looking for.


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## C00P5TT5 (Jul 10, 2016)

I had the same issue on my 2009 tts. I disconnected the battery and then turned the ignition on waited 30 seconds then turned the ignition off and reconnected the battery. Up start up everything worked apart from the fuel gauge. The warning lights cleared after a short drive.

Halfords checked the battery and said it was low but not discharging... Took it for a thrashing down the motorway and the fuel gauge came back to life.... Not had a problem since then.

I do very short journeys once a week so put it down to the fact that it's 10 Yr old and probably due a new battery and that the Germans put what's more important... Know what the temperature and fuel is or starting the engine


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## C00P5TT5 (Jul 10, 2016)

I had complete failure no speedo, rev dis nothing


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## John949 (Apr 12, 2017)

CAN BUS is on pins 29 & 30 of the blue connector. Also CAN H is Orange/Blue not Orange/Lilac (The instrument cluster is on a spur from the Gateway, not the main Infotainment bus). Either the connector or the cluster itself should be marked to tell you the pin numbering scheme.


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## lpjr86 (Oct 30, 2019)

John949 said:


> CAN BUS is on pins 29 & 30 of the blue connector. Also CAN H is Orange/Blue not Orange/Lilac (The instrument cluster is on a spur from the Gateway, not the main Infotainment bus). Either the connector or the cluster itself should be marked to tell you the pin numbering scheme.


Ok I gave it a go, here's a pic, hopefully someone can tell if I've done it correctly :mrgreen: :-| :









Ignition is off. Wires came from an ethernet cable as pcbbc suggested. Blue connector had labels for the pin numbers.


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## John949 (Apr 12, 2017)

I've just been and measured a CAN Gateway unit that I have lying around (from a different car) and I now think that is a correct reading. I forgot that the cluster doesn't actually connect directly to the infotainment bus, it has it's own spur to the Gateway (that's why I got the wire colours wrong). This spur appears to work like a high speed bus hence around 50 Ohms is the correct reading (mine reads 65 - same as yours). Sorry if I've misled you but at least you've eliminated the bus wiring and the input section of the CAN Gateway.

Can you force Carista to talk to a specific module? If so what happens when you try to connect to the Insrument Cluster? Can you read data from it?

I think the next step is to use VCDS as it can run tests on the cluster and gives a little more info on the fault codes. Let me know if you can't find anyone local (See the VCDS Users sticky) as a day by the seaside is not an unattractive proposition - I'm retired so the time is not a big issue.


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## lpjr86 (Oct 30, 2019)

John949 said:


> Sorry if I've misled you but at least you've eliminated the bus wiring and the input section of the CAN Gateway.


- No worries at all! Thanks for the help it's much appreciated!



John949 said:


> I've just been and measured a CAN Gateway unit that I have lying around (from a different car) and I now think that is a correct reading. I forgot that the cluster doesn't actually connect directly to the infotainment bus, it has it's own spur to the Gateway (that's why I got the wire colours wrong). This spur appears to work like a high speed bus hence around 50 Ohms is the correct reading (mine reads 65 - same as yours).


- Ok cool, just thinking I should attempt to keep the multimeter connected and give the connector/wire a good shake around, in case the reading is is from the intermittently "fixed" state? Probably not the issue, but I guess any reading I take has the possibility of being a false positive/negative due to the intermittent nature of the fault. - EDIT - I've done this now - reading was steady 65 when thrashing the connector wire about.



John949 said:


> Can you force Carista to talk to a specific module? If so what happens when you try to connect to the Insrument Cluster? Can you read data from it?


- Nope



John949 said:


> I think the next step is to use VCDS as it can run tests on the cluster and gives a little more info on the fault codes. Let me know if you can't find anyone local (See the VCDS Users sticky) as a day by the seaside is not an unattractive proposition - I'm retired so the time is not a big issue.


- Ok sounds logical - I've had a look through using search but can't see anyone in Brighton/Hove or closer than Horsham. @pcbbc if you're nearer by would be great to take you up on your offer? Where are you base @Jon949? I can pay for the time btw! This fault is well annoying as just got 4 new tyres put on and only drove it once :lol:


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## lpjr86 (Oct 30, 2019)

Hi again guys, this morning as it was wet and horrible I thought I'd see if anything had changed.

Alas it was the same, but I took another reading from the pins of the connector and this time it read 1 for open circuit. Gave the connector a wiggle and eventually the reading went back up to 65-67 as before. There was a spot where I could semi reliably get it to flip between 65 and 1 by moving the connector/wire in a certain movement/position.

So - I should replace the connector/wiring loom in that part of the car I guess? I'm going to phone Audi in a bit, just wondering if anyone knows anywhere else where I could find it? I've googled etc but I can only see one in America, so guessing main dealer will be only option.


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## Taylortony (Feb 10, 2012)

https://www.ecutesting.com/common-fault ... r-rebuild/

https://www.ecutesting.com/product-cata ... t-cluster/


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## lpjr86 (Oct 30, 2019)

Taylortony said:


> https://www.ecutesting.com/common-faults/audi/audi-tt-instrument-cluster-rebuild/
> 
> https://www.ecutesting.com/product-cata ... t-cluster/


- Already had the dash rebuilt by that company, now trying to eliminate other things (see my initial post in the thread).


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## John949 (Apr 12, 2017)

Don't now how happy you are wth a soldering iron but the pins are removeable / replaceable some are easy to get out some need a special tool. On that connector you have to cut the cable tie and then the gray blocks slide backwards out of the blue part. Easiest to go to the dealer for new pins / sockets. A good auto electrician should be able to do it for you if you don't fancy it - they may come to you, whereas Audi will probably want to trailer the car to them (at your expense).


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## pcbbc (Sep 4, 2009)

lpjr86 said:


> @pcbbc if you're nearer by would be great to take you up on your offer? Where are you base @Jon949? I can pay for the time btw! This fault is well annoying as just got 4 new tyres put on and only drove it once :lol:


Sorry, only just seen this. If you still think I can help, then let me know. PM is probably best as I don't check the MK2 forum so regularly.
Offer of payment is very generous, but not necessary. I'll certianly not be asking for payment - it's not like auto electrics is my day job


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## Joba87 (Jan 1, 2020)

I had this exact same issue, thread here:

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1941677

Turns out my battery was just low on charge lol.

It might take a full charge and leaving the car overnight for everything to reset.


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## Taylortony (Feb 10, 2012)

Same as Mine Joba and have already mentioned it, sadly he listened to Halfrauds, sigh, and it will end up costing , and the battery is the simplest thing to do first.

The last people I would have accepted as offering me advice was a young lad at Halfrauds, they are useless to be honest and probably got a ten minute this is a tester, stick it on here and read this course....


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## Taylortony (Feb 10, 2012)

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-s8- ... d-2839236/

A8


> Car transported to out of state Audi dealer # 3 that originally gave it its all clear inspection for the selling indy dealership (transport $700). They said the battery is fine, but probably drained during initial delivery to me and lack of use (maybe a light left on or something), power management kicked in , and started shutting down components (no big parasitic current drain found). SO ALL IT NEEDED WAS A LITTLE CHARGE TO THE BATTERY, no parts needed, no labor. ok, so how come the 1st 2 dealerships could not think of just charging the battery a bit, or driving the car around to put some charge on it and giving it a chance to reset. Car shipped back today (more money, and look at the date of my 1st post). I'm happy it works just fine now.


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## lpjr86 (Oct 30, 2019)

Hi again all,

so I had an auto electrician come out to look at this. He ran it through his diagnostics and stuff, checked all the stuff behind the cluster and was satisfied it was't that cable/connection. He then went behind the glovebox and check that side, and was also satisfied all was ok. Then he went down beneath the cluster and found what he believes to be the problem...










So thats the BC Module - part number 8P0 907 063 B

He says that the white crap on the pins (it's on all the pins, even those not in the pic) is calcification from condensation which would prevent a good contact with the connectors (and also that you can see decent bite marks on some pins but weak ones on other pins - the set that's in focus in the above photo actually have better bite marks than the other sets).

Audi are quoting £375 for a new one. Wondering if anyone has encountered this before? And also if anyone knows anyone that can clean/repair the board instead of buying a new one. I had look a look online/ebay for replacements but they're all slightly different part numbers apart from one, and that one I can see from the photos also has the white powder on the pins.

Plan is to repair or replace and then tape a bunch of silica gel packets in that area to prevent it from happening again.

[smiley=bomb.gif]


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## FNChaos (Nov 30, 2016)

Just a bit of oxidation. A pencil eraser will clean that off.
If space is limited you can get erasers that have a fine tip (like a pencil)


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## John949 (Apr 12, 2017)

Electrical contact cleaner should help. If it is calcification i.e. deposits left from evaporating water, then Cillit Bang would shift it! Obviously rinse it off afterwards with contact cleaner.

Silica gel will only work in an air-tight space. I suspect you will be trying to dry the entire voume of the cabin with a little bag of silica gel. Condensation can be a major problem on convertibles, particularly if you only use them occassionally. I tried some of those large silica gel bags that you put in the microwave to regenerate - not convinced they did much good. If you can bear to do it, opening the windows and cooling down the air inside the car before you park it can help. Running the AC will also help to dry the air. Also check for damp carpets etc. Any water inside will evapourate as the car warms up and then recondense on the cold parts (usually the windscreen) as the air outside cools. Look at the cable routes to make sure condensation isn't running down the cables into the connector.

Let's hope the electrcian has found the problem, but your original codes suggest a communication problem between the Instrument cluster and other modules on the Infotainment bus and a dead cluster suggests loss of comms between the cluster and the Gateway. The BCM is on the Comfrot bus so it's not obvious to me how it could cause your symptons - still worth cleaning up the contacts and trying though.


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## lpjr86 (Oct 30, 2019)

So I cleaned up the contacts and put it back into the car, but I feel fairly confident the BC module wasn't the problem. The reason I think it isn't the issue is as follows:

I noticed over the past week that if the cluster HAS been working, the wing/spoiler works as expected. Therefore, you lock and leave the car - wing is in down position.

Next time you come back to the car:
a) If you turn on the ignition and the cluster is working, then the whole car works as expected.
b) If you turn on the ignition and the cluster is not working, then the wing will instantly go into the up position - If you hear the wing go up you know that the cluster isn't working basically.

So, after I had cleaned the BC-Module, I put it back in and everything/cluster works properly. As I was sceptical about the BC-Module being the issue, I tried the following (in sequence):

1) I then removed the BC-Module again completely, and turned on the ignition - cluster lit up as expected. I then turned off the ignition, unplugged the cluster from the connector and turned on the ignition again - wing pops up as per the usual sequence when the fault happens.
2) I reinstalled the BC-Module and the cluster. Turned on ignition and cluster lit up - working state. Used the centre console button to retract wing to "reset". Turned off ignition. Unplugged cluster. Turned on ignition. Wing pops up.

This makes me think that the BC-Module isn't at fault, as the cluster works without the BC-Module connected, and removing the BC-Module doesn't reproduce the wing anomaly. Especially in combination with what you say @John949! BTW @John949, it's the coupe in case that makes any difference to anything.

Current status: car has worked fine for 48 hours, gave it a good run today and no problems. To be honest I'd rather it had just refused to work so I could continue trying to get to the bottom of it but what can you do.

Presuming it faults again, thinking I'm going to take it here straight away: https://www.cedargarage.co.uk/diagnostics


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## Taylortony (Feb 10, 2012)

The spoiler popping up is a well known indication of low battery. Run it and get some charge into it.


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## lpjr86 (Oct 30, 2019)

@TaylorTony did a 50mile run today so fingers crossed


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## Taylortony (Feb 10, 2012)

Cool, hopefully you have cured it, you may well have had a pod failure, but after you refitted it low battery voltage may have been masking the fact it was fixed, let's hope it's all ok now


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## lpjr86 (Oct 30, 2019)

Hi all, after months of being fine, this issue has reared it's head again! [smiley=bomb.gif]

Does anyone know if there is a VAGCOM/VCDS member in/near Brighton/Hove?

I had a search through the sticky but couldn't see anyone specifically in my area. Would be happy to pay for the time if anyone knows anybody local to me. Car is undriveable as immobiliser is linked to dash cluster. I'm guessing it's because of all the rain and that it's gotten into somewhere [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## rossinator (Oct 30, 2016)

Hello @


lpjr86 said:


> Hi all, after months of being fine, this issue has reared it's head again! [smiley=bomb.gif]


Hello, did you get anywhere with this, having a similar issue, but my battery seems A1 okay, took it out of the car and it was charged, put it back in, still have wierd dash lights, no speedo, no rev counter, no clock, no mileage, no fuel guage, no DIS, a tonne of warning lights etc, very minimal error codes, none on engine that runs fine?


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