# 7 year old alone



## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Is it just me that thinks this is gross neglect I don't care how competent the lad was he's 7 years old

Tragic yes but totally avoidable by being a responsible parent.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-32281151


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

Agreed, just like the Madeleine case!


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

He got separated from them. They didn't send him up the mountain on his own.

As for the Madeleine comment, that beggars belief.


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## Danny1 (Sep 2, 2010)

Spandex said:


> He got separated from them. They didn't send him up the mountain on his own.
> 
> As for the Madeleine comment, that beggars belief.


Why? They went drinking and left the kids in the hotel on their own....


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Spandex said:


> He got separated from them. They didn't send him up the mountain on his own.
> 
> As for the Madeleine comment, that beggars belief.


According to reports on the radio and TV news the poor lads parents allowed the child to carry on while they sorted their daughter out who had lost her equipment hence the "very competent skier and snowboarder" statement the family have released.

Did they mean this to happem of course not but still bad judgement, negligent and very sad in equal measures.

As for the "beggars belief" statement I dont see your issue both the father and mother have stated it was a massive mistake on their part to leave their children alone.

I certainly wouldn't leave my daughter alone in those circumstances


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## ReTTro fit (Nov 9, 2014)

It's the Same old forum ***** looking for an argument jamman, leave him too it mate
I'm yet to see a useful, helpful post from him, all just arguing

On iPhone using Tapacrap

*** personal attacks not allowed ***


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Madeleine was kidnapped from her room by a criminal. Demonising the parents in situations like that is just stupid, and misses the point entirely (but tabloid newspaper readers have to get their jollies somewhere, I suppose). But I guess everyone knows best till it happens to them. I'm sure the parents would dearly love to have a second chance at making those decisions and I'm sure they'd make them differently, but that's not the same thing as being negligent.

Back to the topic, the idea that allowing your child to leave your sight is somehow negligent is ridiculous. In fact, every parent does it - but, I suspect it's only negligent when _someone else_ does it and a tragedy happens.

This was an accident. With a crystal ball, or an industrial sized pack of cotton wool it could have been avoided, but it was an accident nonetheless. Unfortunately, people these days seem so terrified by the numerous, unimaginable consequences that they don't allow their children any responsibility for their actions and we end up with a nation of feckless youth, determined to blame everything on someone else.

It's interesting that despite the statistics to the contrary, everyone believes the world has become more dangerous. They use this to justify why they had freedom and responsibility when they were young, but it's not safe to allow those same freedoms to their kids.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Spandex said:
 

> Back to the topic, the idea that allowing your child to leave your sight is somehow negligent is ridiculous. In fact, every parent does it - but, I suspect it's only negligent when _someone else_ does it and a tragedy happens.
> 
> This was an accident. With a crystal ball, or an industrial sized pack of cotton wool it could have been avoided, but it was an accident nonetheless. Unfortunately, people these days seem so terrified by the numerous, unimaginable consequences that they don't allow their children any responsibility for their actions and we end up with a nation of feckless youth, determined to blame everything on someone else.


Allowing your 7 year old to leave your sight on a mountain side is grossly negligent allowing your 7 year old to swim in the sea alone is negligent allowing your 7 year old to play in the road is negligent allowing your 7 year old to play in the garden is not although of course accidents can and do happen, it's all about risk.

You can disagree that is your right but in this case you are wrong :wink:


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

jamman said:


> Allowing your 7 year old to leave your sight on a mountain side is grossly negligent allowing your 7 year old to swim in the sea alone is negligent allowing your 7 year old to play in the road is negligent allowing your 7 year old to play in the garden is not although of course accidents can and do happen, it's all about risk.
> 
> You can disagree that is your right but in this case you are wrong :wink:


It is, of course, all about risk. He was a competent skier who had been on numerous trips with his family. The risk of serious injury or death was exceptionally low, as it is for the other thousands of people who ski and board every year. Skiing is actually a relatively safe sport.

But I know I can trust you not to let the facts get in the way of a good bit of outrage.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I'm not outraged at all just very sad.

"He was 7 years old"

Read this digest it even have a think about it and then by all means come back with yet another witty retort.

The above few words is the answer to all the other wordy responses you might care to post nothing further needs saying from myself.

All your arguments for arguments sake posts always seem to follow a script mix it up a little use a little imagination :wink:


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

Even your thread title was meant to generate outrage. Not "7 year old dies", or "7 year old in tragic accident"... No, it's the 'alone' bit that you singled out. If only you'd realised that nothing further needed saying by you _before _you started this thread.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Spandex said:


> Even your thread title was meant to generate outrage. Not "7 year old dies", or "7 year old in tragic accident"... No, it's the 'alone' bit that you singled out. If only you'd realised that nothing further needed saying by you _before _you started this thread.


This is where you get always get confused and come unstuck Spandex the above is only your opinion and you are entitled to it but that doesn't make it fact, law or even remotely correct just your opinion nothing more.

I posted because I have a 7 year old and the report made me think.

The "alone" part is the very crux of the matter because it took the risk from acceptable to the polar opposite.

Now I don't expect you to agree nor do I care because as others have written above and PMed you are what you are and that's fine with me


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

jamman said:


> as others have written above and PMed


Quality... :lol:


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Spandex said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > as others have written above and PMed
> ...


Not really mostly swear words about self manipulation


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

jamman said:


> Spandex said:
> 
> 
> > jamman said:
> ...


I meant the fact that you actually wrote that... :roll:


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

I didn't ... :wink:

I love you felt the need to explain that. 

This thread has now gone the same way that every argument you lose goes.

Occasionally your posts and the points made are valid but all too often are misguided and poorly executed which leaves you with egg on your face picking holes in other peeps posts and ultimately looking silly.

Life is too short Spandex get out and live a little before life passes you by and you get all bitter and twisted. :wink:


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

jamman said:


> I didn't ... :wink:
> 
> I love you felt the need to explain that.
> 
> ...


Copied and pasted from "an idiots guide to Internet cliches"?


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## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

I think this is more a "hindsight" neglect rather than wilful neglect.

At the age of 7, I was allowed to walk to school with my friends, walk round next door or even the next street to friends houses and they were allowed to walk around to visit me. It was not neglect it was early stage trust and freedom. Controlled independence.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

mighTy Tee said:


> I think this is more a "hindsight" neglect rather than wilful neglect.
> 
> At the age of 7, I was allowed to walk to school with my friends, walk round next door or even the next street to friends houses and they were allowed to walk around to visit me. It was not neglect it was early stage trust and freedom. Controlled independence.


God without a doubt these poor people would never have thought this would be the result but I do think they allowed a potentially high risk situation to occur when it shouldn't have.

Would your parents have allowed you to walk to school on your own ?

When on holiday and you are all on the beach are you allowed out of eyesight or in the water alone ?

It's heartbreaking but was also so easily avoidable


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

When I was 7 I walked to school on my own, and sometimes to the shops.
Most risk avoidance measures that we have arise as a result of past calamities. We learn from our collective mistakes. If this sort of accident had never happened before, to any other child, how foreseeable was it?

20 years ago when my kids were aged between 5 and 12 we went on holiday to Pontins where they almost encouraged you leave young children alone in your chalet. They had people walking around listening for kids crying and would put a sign up saying Baby crying in chalet G 123. We never did but it was seen as quite normal then. In light of the Madeline case to do so now would be seen as foolhardy and irresponsible.
Hindsight is a wondrous thing.


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## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

jamman said:


> mighTy Tee said:
> 
> 
> > I think this is more a "hindsight" neglect rather than wilful neglect.
> ...


At what age do you allow limited independence?

I am getting worried that you still cross the road hold your mummies hand, and drive your TT with daddy by your side, as anything less (especially in your case? :lol: ) is irresponsible.

And BTW at the age of 12, I was running around my local town every Monday night with a 5 or 6 inch sheath knife on my belt. It was part of being a boy scout in 1974. Now I would be locked up for attempted murderer.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

mighTy Tee said:


> jamman said:
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> 
> > mighTy Tee said:
> ...


My answer would be older than 7

The personal stuff about my parents I will leave to you. :?


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## Bartsimpsonhead (Aug 14, 2011)

jamman said:


> Would your parents have allowed you to walk to school on your own ?


Yes they did. But that was the early 1970s.



jamman said:


> When on holiday and you are all on the beach are you allowed out of eyesight or in the water alone ?


Yes I was.



jam man said:


> It's heartbreaking but was also so easily avoidable


Yes and no - if the boys been skiing/snowboarding for four years he's going to be pretty good. Go to any of the indoor snow centres in the UK (Breahead, Castleford Xscape, Manchester ChillFactory, Tamworth Snowdome, Milton Keynes Xscape, Hemel Hempstead Snow Centre) and you will see small kids zipping about on the slope without a care for safety or fear of pain. They love it. And if you go away to the mountains it's the same - they have no fear, love speed, and generally don't hurt themselves when they fall over (they're close to the ground as it is, and more relaxed than adults). The Europeans get their kids into ski school at about 3 years old, here in the UK it's about 5 (seems we're more concerned about strong bone development than they are!)

The fact the boy went on ahead, took a wrong turn, got lost, realised he was were he shouldn't have been, then tried to go back but fell is a tragic accident. He would probably have been fine if he'd kept his skis on (at s the edges cut into the snow allowing to walk up hills better, while ski boots can slip). For the parents they probably thought it'd only take a minute or two to retrieve the girls skis and be on their way again and quickly catch him up. A reasonable assumption, and no fault of their own.

A lot of this scare mongering is just an extension of the nanny state - make people fearful of their surroundings, with a peado around every corner and a mugger in every bush, and their easier to control. And their kids too. Yes, a lot of bad stuff happens these days, but probably no more than when I was growing up. The difference these days being the newspapers take it, sensationalise it, and use it to sell newspapers. The best thing anyone can do with the red tops is wrap their fish & chips in them.

Random search of Youtube of groms ripping it:


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## cherie (Oct 23, 2014)

It's hugely tragic and heartbreaking, and people will always want to point the finger and blame someone. Regardless if there is actually any blame to apportion. The fact the kid was only 7 bears very little relation as to why the accident actually happened. He took a wrong turn and got lost; but any adult could have easily have made the same mistake and fell. The only difference in that scenario is that it would get significantly less media coverage.


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

I think this is a tragic story but the fact that there was a 160ft cliff within a few minutes of skiing would certainly make me think twice about letting my little one crack on ahead. 
However I am sure now is the time for nothing but sympathy for the poor parents who must be devastated, my thoughts are with them.


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## jdn (Aug 26, 2002)

Matt B said:


> I think this is a tragic story but the fact that there was a 160ft cliff within a few minutes of skiing would certainly make me think twice about letting my little one crack on ahead.
> However I am sure now is the time for nothing but sympathy for the poor parents who must be devastated, my thoughts are with them.


Agree.

Now, this is moronic parenting:

http://news.sky.com/story/1463807/boy-3-shoots-and-kills-one-year-old-brother


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## nilanth (Mar 30, 2007)

All you can do is give your opinion on what you would or would not have done in the situation.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions but it does not make one person more right or wrong than the other.

If i was on a skiing holiday and i had a son who was 7 years old, I would not leave him alone to ski.

If another parent did decide to do that i am sure they would have their reasons for doing so, but i would not say that they are incorrect.

At the end of the day it was an tragic accident.


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