# For sale section



## steve1968 (Sep 22, 2004)

Am i missing something or is there no for sale section on this forum any more ?

Steve


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi Steve, Members with low post count & not members of TTOC have restricted access.
Only £10 to join as a Web member, click the link & join up, you know you want to.
http://www.ttoc.co.uk/zen/index.php?mai ... cts_id=281
Hoggy.


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## steve1968 (Sep 22, 2004)

So although i have been a member for almost 7 years and am in the market for a TT i still can't see members cars for sale ?


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## markypoo (Sep 4, 2009)

Yeah I think this is crap to, can understand in the bits and pieces where things have to be paid for before sent but buying a car is different :roll:


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

steve1968 said:


> So although i have been a member for almost 7 years and am in the market for a TT i still can't see members cars for sale ?


Hi, As you have been a TTF member for a long time, I will PM Admin.
Hoggy.


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## steve1968 (Sep 22, 2004)

Thank you


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## y3putt (Mar 29, 2008)

markypoo said:


> Yeah I think this is crap to, can understand in the bits and pieces where things have to be paid for before sent but buying a car is different :roll:


+1 Mark... I have been trying to sell my QS for a while and just had a PM from a new member who has just bought a QS who said that now he has finally gained access to the For sale section, had he been able to see mine he would of contacted me...

Like you say Absolute crap Idea that the only people who may be interested in buying a TT are not allowed to view them... :?

Brilliant Idea... :roll: :roll: ...


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

y3putt said:


> markypoo said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah I think this is crap to, can understand in the bits and pieces where things have to be paid for before sent but buying a car is different :roll:
> ...


and if a long standing ttf member with low post count ripped you offl who is to blame? ttf or you for getting scammed


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## markypoo (Sep 4, 2009)

If you sell a car and get scammed its your own fault...............you'll be doing the deal face to face...........unless you're stupid :roll:


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

markypoo said:


> If you sell a car and get scammed its your own fault...............you'll be doing the deal face to face...........unless you're stupid :roll:


agreed mark, but the forum has to have some security to protect peeps from themselves m8ee


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## markypoo (Sep 4, 2009)

Ebay, autotrader or pistonheads dosent protect you if its a classified ad so why should the forum????


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Don't forget it's not so much the buying/selling of a car that's the issue - it's the granting of PM rights. You're presuming a new member will be going through the process of buying a car - that may have safeguards. But what if they simply use the PM ability to scam people and are not interested in buying a car? How would we know?


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

markypoo said:


> Ebay, autotrader or pistonheads dosent protect you if its a classified ad so why should the forum????


maybe the TTF think its users deserve some protection? dont know mark tbh m8


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## markypoo (Sep 4, 2009)

You'll never cut out scams completely, none of the big ones have, its still going on and sure it will continue....Least on here it can be reported and dealt with unlike the others, they're to big to deal with what they get, I just think it all comes down to mollycoddling just like health and safety has got out of control, just my opinion :roll:


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## swfblade (Apr 24, 2007)

Sorry, so am I reading that right? New users can't see cars for sale?! Isn't that the bulk of who would want to buy a car? If that's the case, then there is virtually no point in having that section at all.

Whats to say that a member with a high post count is going to be any more reliable than one with a low one? A scammer is a scammer and lets be honest, its not hard to increase your post count on a forum!

THATs a very silly idea, if I am understanding it right.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Thanks for the "WARNING" :wink:

Firstly, we had to do something about the increasing level of scammers and spammers operating by PM, thus PM rights were withdrawn for new users until, from their initial posts, it becomes obvious that they are genuine. Then they are given full rights and can see the market and post there.

If they can't PM there is not much point in seeing the market as they can't communicate. There are also limitations to what we can do when applying group policies within the forum structure.

This measure, although not perfect, significantly alters the odds against the fraudster and spammer - they will trend to go elsewhere.


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## alun (Aug 2, 2010)

i think its a good idea restricting newbies.

what id like to know is.. if the op has been on here for 7 years.. why only 12 posts?


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## T3RBO (Dec 9, 2003)

y3putt said:


> I have been trying to sell my QS for a while and just had a PM from a new member who has just bought a QS who said that now he has finally gained access to the For sale section, had he been able to see mine he would of contacted me...


Surely you had it advertised elsewhere :?


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## diamond (Feb 12, 2011)

As a newbie it is not really my place to comment on forum policy... However the reason I became a member recently is that I generally prefer to buy cars from enthusiast forums because you are more likely to get a car that has been cared for. I Know i can Pay a tenner and join the Club but As i am considering a couple of other Makes as well I don't want to join uP and end up buying a focus! If I do Buy a tt i will of course pay my dues. Is it not poss to open the for sale section but stop pls? Sellers could provide an email for newbies?


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## vr6paul (Jul 12, 2011)

I am in the same boat as many of the people posting in this thread.
thinking of buying a tt - on the lookout for one - and now cannot see the marketplace section. this is really the main reason i joined the forum.
I did send a PM the other day but i guess the reason for no reply was that it actually wasn't sent??
Also I dont agree that a simple monetary charge would prevent someone looking to scam (if they were a good scammer). So if i pay a tenner I am seen as a non scammer?? If i were a scammer I would probably pay the tenner and get scamming but instead i cannot see the list of cars for sale by enthusiasts.
Many other forums make it clear that they are not responsible for listings or any actions taken due to those listings. why this forum is any different I do not know.
frustrating!


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

vr6paul said:


> I am in the same boat as many of the people posting in this thread.
> thinking of buying a tt - on the lookout for one - and now cannot see the marketplace section. this is really the main reason i joined the forum.
> I did send a PM the other day but i guess the reason for no reply was that it actually wasn't sent??
> Also I dont agree that a simple monetary charge would prevent someone looking to scam (if they were a good scammer). So if i pay a tenner I am seen as a non scammer?? If i were a scammer I would probably pay the tenner and get scamming but instead i cannot see the list of cars for sale by enthusiasts.
> ...


If you paid £10 then there would be proof of ID and traceability. That makes it much more difficult to scam under that identity. Not impossible but more unlikely. Also removing the ability to PM until convincingly established forces a potential scammer to join in forum conversation - again this makes them more likely to leave for easier pickings. Perhaps they'll go to the forums that have no safeguards. Where would you rather be?


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## vr6paul (Jul 12, 2011)

So are you saying if a scammer were to pay the tenner then the TT forum would provide the payment/contact details provided during payment to allow the authorities to carry out their role? If this is the case this would surely put genuine forum users off from paying/joining since they know that if there was some sort of suspicion or accusation then the forum would share these confidential details.
Im playing devils advocate to a certain extent but just feel there may be a more effective and beneficial way of screening - one that allows people who are genuinely looking for a tt to buy one from an enthusiast.
As mentioned before many of the sellers on the forum would advertise elsewhere to sell their car (and therefore be open to scammers) but because of the rules in place their forum ad is not available to the very people who have joined the forum and are looking. Also why is this forum so attractive to scammers when the pistonheads/autotrader/ebay of this world are such fair game? Seems like a big stick (affecting genuine users) to fix a problem that is not the forum's problem.
cheers


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Yes, in the event of fraud (not for a petty reason you understand as we are bound by data protection rules) we would be able to and would anyway be obliged, to provide details to the authorities in order to give evidence of a fraud and get people their money back. I think most people would agree to this policy and the only ones that wouldn't are either extremely mistrusting or have something to hide.

Anyway, I know you are focussing on car sales but the real issue is the ability to send PMs. That's where the frauds were occurring and we could not monitor this until a fraud was reported. So we took away the ability to send PMs from new users until they become obviously genuine from their initial postings. Not having the ability to PM meant they could not contact sellers so there was no point in them seeing the market place.

All these arguments were discussed at length here which may be worth a read: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=214609

My advice is to be active on the forum, make use of it to ask questions and find out information about your possible intended purchase - things to look out for, mods, pitfalls etc. etc. then in no time you will have got over the hurdle and have access and also be better prepared.

Sorry about the need to do this but this is the trouble a few dishonest people cause to us all :roll:


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## vr6paul (Jul 12, 2011)

is it not possible to reply to for sale threads?
this would keep the whole thing out in the open and allow you to keep PMs away from the untrusted masses?
Again, other forums allow on topic discussion in for sale threads.

Another point to make is why only yesterday the marketplace "disappeared" for me when i had been able to view it (as i was religiously) for the first few days of membership.


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## vr6paul (Jul 12, 2011)

another question would be what happened to my Wanted thread i posted in my first couple of days?
Now i have no access for all i know there could be forum members replying to this thread?


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

You are not paying £15 to this forum, the £15 is for the TTOC membership. One of our member benefits is unlimited access to various parts of this site . We can do this because we have a lot more info about our members than this site has about it's members.


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## vr6paul (Jul 12, 2011)

It sounds like a pretty close link between the two to be honest.
I am understanding everything you guys are saying but i do not believe that by enforcing the restrictions you are protecting your members from scammers. You may be reducing the amount of attempted scamming that you can see but you are not reducing the scamming attempts on your members. As before I am sure the forum members have their cars for sale else where also so are open to scammers. for new members it would be nice to see a collated list of cars for sale from who they know to be enthusiasts as per many other car forums.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

The scamming was nothing to do with cars. There are other protections for car transactions. A I said the scams were by PM - e.g."I saw your part wanted desperately ad - I've got one for sale - just wire me the money bla bla spin blag......" Then nothing turns up etc.


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