# Manual gearbox | S-Tronic



## Hood49 (Jun 29, 2007)

*Manual / S-Tronic*​
Manual3639.13%S-Tronic5660.87%


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## Hood49 (Jun 29, 2007)

Hey dudes. I wonder how many of us chose to go with the manual gearbox (like me). I always thought that automatic geaboxes were for lazy gits. It looks like S-Tronic is even more aggressive! I still like to shift as you are a bit closer to the engine (without all the electronic crap).

Let us know!


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## FinFerNan (Feb 28, 2007)

Hood49

I think this poll will only make sense if those who have used S/Tronic or DSG are the only ones to vote :?

Anyone who has not used it may assume it's the same as an ordinary Auto box which it ain't.

Sorry mate, but the only real way to decide is to drive both for as long as you can. I do know that the manual is a pain to start with and does get better with use. ie you become accoustomed to it. Can't really say about the S/tronic only had a short blat in it - I thought it was brilliant


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## andyc83 (Jun 19, 2007)

I have taken MK2s with both gearboxes on extended drives, and S-tronic is lovely...if a little boring after a while. The pedals were great fun to play with (especially in S Mode) but I can see myself getting bored of them too, once the novalty has worn off.

I have always enjoyed driving, and being able to reach down and shift whenever I feel like is a definite bonus!

Which is why I got myself a manual 'box in my MK2.


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## Mack The Knife (Jun 14, 2007)

FinFerNan said:


> I think this poll will only make sense if those who have used S/Tronic or DSG are the only ones to vote :?
> 
> Anyone who has not used it may assume it's the same as an ordinary Auto box which it ain't.


Couldn't agree more,

but then why would _anyone_ prefer the prehistoric practice of a manual clutch and gear-lever when they could be in control of much quicker and smoother gear changes at the flick of a paddle whilst leaving the full quota of limbs available for dedicated (and simultaneous) steering and braking (or anything else they may chose to do at the same time)? :lol:


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

"I have always enjoyed driving, and being able to reach down and shift whenever I feel like is a definite bonus"

Umm why do people say this when lauding the benefits of a manual box?????? Obviously an extended drive was not long enough!


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## Hood49 (Jun 29, 2007)

I am going to wait a couple of years before moving away from manual.

But it is true, the days that we were driving washing machines with three speed automatic gearboxes are long over. The S/Tronic technology gives you a good feeling but nothing beets the good old manual shift. I must say that the TT manual box is very easy to use...


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## woppy (Apr 11, 2007)

And we should ditch synros as well. The long lost art of double declutching and heel and toeing.

When I was a lad.... hold on... I still am hehehe :lol:


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## moley (May 14, 2002)

I've had both - a 225 manual for 1.5 years, a 3.2 DSG for 3 years and now I'm back to a 3.2 Mk2 manual. The only reason I went back to manual was the delay issues which have been well documented and discussed on here in the past (mainly in the Mk1 section). I am enjoying the manual but having said this, I actually wouldn't hesitate (  ) to go for the S-tronic again - it's a silky smooth rapid gear change and to be honest I could probably live with the delay effects, which of course can be overcome using the paddles (if you remember to do so, which invariably I didn't).

So, I actually haven't voted for either :roll:

Moley


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Hood49 said:


> Hey dudes. I wonder how many of us chose to go with the manual gearbox (like me). I always thought that automatic geaboxes were for lazy gits. It looks like S-Tronic is even more aggressive! I still like to shift as you are a bit closer to the engine (without all the electronic crap).
> 
> Let us know!


Just take a look at the video from the my MK2 on the nurburgring on this forum.
It's with s-tronic


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Nothing in it for me. Having had both version of the TT, the only difference is DSG is not as jerky as the manual, and is faster.

If you spend lots of time in traffic, DSG, if you dont manual.

DSG is about the only option you'll get anymore back on. MR, SatNav all worth about 2p come trade in time.


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## Thomas the Spoiler (Aug 1, 2007)

When you first drive a DSG vehicle, the gear changes are bizarrely smooth. The disparity between the engine noise and constant power flow is a new experience.

It is great for traffic and faster than the manual. Also more efficient (lower listed emissions). The way forward, if you ask me.

It is a shame they did not engineer a system for the S3.


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## philbur (Apr 15, 2007)

With the Stronic, when I pull away from standstill, say at a road junction on a slope, if I try to press the accelerator while my foot is still on the foot brake nothing happens. If I then take my foot of the brake still nothing happens for a couple of seconds. This can be embarrassing and some times dangerous.  It seems the only way to avoid it is to use the hand brake for hill starts, it doesnâ€™t seem to be possible to hold the car on the foot brake under these conditions. Am I missing something. :?:

Phil


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## Janitor (Jul 2, 2007)

andyc83 said:


> I have always enjoyed driving, and being able to reach down and shift whenever I feel like is a definite bonus!





saint said:


> Umm why do people say this when lauding the benefits of a manual box?????? Obviously an extended drive was not long enough!


Erm, surely Andy is referring to the actual physical process of reaching for the lever and selecting the desired gear? That is what a manual box demands. You can't berate him for that surely Saint?

I too know only too well that the S-Tronic is a truly impressive bit of kit, but like Andy, felt there was just something missing from the complete mechanics of driving. That may well purely be down to the habits of a lifetime, but most 'drivers' would say that it's all about how a car 'feels' - and not necessarily whether it's better, smoother, quicker. To me (and others seemingly) there was simply part of the process absent

Don't get me wrong, I'm not hankering after a scrap and neither do I believe that one is better than the other... it will just be different things for different people. Those with lots of motorway & traffic use being a prime example


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## KevtoTTy (Aug 24, 2004)

philbur said:


> With the Stronic, when I pull away from standstill, say at a road junction on a slope, if I try to press the accelerator while my foot is still on the foot brake nothing happens. If I then take my foot of the brake still nothing happens for a couple of seconds. This can be embarrassing and some times dangerous.  It seems the only way to avoid it is to use the hand brake for hill starts, it doesnâ€™t seem to be possible to hold the car on the foot brake under these conditions. Am I missing something. :?:
> 
> Phil


Phil

Try taking your foot off the brake abruptly thus loading the engine; if anything the car should creep forward rather than roll back. There is definately a knack in doing hill starts - often I will use the handbrake to ensure the engine is underload (balancing the handbrake against the throttle), this eliminates any delay in the power coming in.

The key for the DSG box is to keep the engine under load when you wish to accelerate. For example to overtake: accelerate then change down (rather than with a manual: change down then accelarate - doing it this way with a DSG will confuse the gearbox as it has a HIGHER gear ready and has to change to this before changing to the lower gear you want).

Hope this helps.

And for the record - I'll never go back to a manual!

Kev


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

KevtoTTy said:


> And for the record - I'll never go back to a manual!
> 
> Kev


You old git


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

KevtoTTy said:


> And for the record - I'll never go back to a manual!
> 
> Kev


same over here...no manual for me...
this technik will be better and better next year's and i love it.
the one who complain abouth it are the one who only testdrove it for one day, or the one's who don't understand how to handle the system properly.
It's a very clever system and once you understand it, you can play it like a guitar. :wink:

I like it during heavy traffic. I like it during normal driving, and i love it on a circuit.

Why did you think tahat BMW quit with SMG and choosed for their own DSG-version?
Why will Porsche introduce their own DSG-version in many models next year?
Why has Ford/volvo introduced their own DSG-version? 
Why will have the Lancer-EVO DSG on the option-list?

Because it's crap?

DSG gives driving so much extra.....

did i say, i love it?

:wink:


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## Singletrack (Aug 1, 2007)

Janitor said:


> I too know only too well that the S-Tronic is a truly impressive bit of kit, but like Andy, felt there was just something missing from the complete mechanics of driving. That may well purely be down to the habits of a lifetime, but most 'drivers' would say that it's all about how a car 'feels' - and not necessarily whether it's better, smoother, quicker. To me (and others seemingly) there was simply part of the process absent
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not hankering after a scrap and neither do I believe that one is better than the other... it will just be different things for different people. Those with lots of motorway & traffic use being a prime example


Guess you wax wistful for the good old days before synchromesh ruined manual transmissions.....it's the 21st century mate, stuff moves on...a clutch is an old Shimano cable shifter versus the surgical precision of a SRAM XO shifter on a carbon framed mountain bike...there is no going back!


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## KevtoTTy (Aug 24, 2004)

BAMTT said:


> KevtoTTy said:
> 
> 
> > And for the record - I'll never go back to a manual!
> ...


Proud of it!


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## Janitor (Jul 2, 2007)

Singletrack said:


> Janitor said:
> 
> 
> > I too know only too well that the S-Tronic is a truly impressive bit of kit, but like Andy, felt there was just something missing from the complete mechanics of driving. That may well purely be down to the habits of a lifetime, but most 'drivers' would say that it's all about how a car 'feels' - and not necessarily whether it's better, smoother, quicker. To me (and others seemingly) there was simply part of the process absent
> ...


Erm, and what bit of "it will just be different things for different people" did you not read 'mate'..?

Stuff does indeed move on and you'll be reminded that I never said it wasn't amazing kit - it comes down how it makes you feel. If flicking a finger to make you 2 tenths quicker to 60 makes you feel good, then fair play, no one can tell you any different. It's just not for me (nor many)

This is just like the 3.2 v 2.0, Elise v VX220, TT v Boxster debate... THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG. NEVER HAS BEEN NEVER WILL BE. It's all down to individual and that's the only person that matters


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## Singletrack (Aug 1, 2007)

Janitor - it was presumptuous and flippant of me to call you "mate".

My reference was to the manual, driver operated clutch which as a technology is on the way out.

This will be eventually replaced by sequential transmissions (as in F1) or semi-automatic twin-clutch (but pedaless) transmissions like the DSG actuated by paddles or stick. The driver actuated clutch survived on the strength of the performance advantage it provided and fuel economy.

The DSG has now surpassed it in both these regards.

I can appreciate those who believe they achieve greater intimacy with the car by using a driver actuated clutch but how intimate is the experience in a car with power assisted brakes, electro-mechanical steering, drive-by-wire throttle, ESP, ASP and so on?


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## Janitor (Jul 2, 2007)

Can't differ on any of that, but the only thing one could still offer regarding the other electronic aids you rightly list is that none of them actually remove any part of the movements and processes that we have been accustomed to as drivers. Yes they dilute some of the involvement, but you still press the pedals and turn the wheels

I'm all for progression and in no way â€˜set in my waysâ€™ - I even agree that you're no doubt spot on regarding the future - but whilst there is still a choice, some will opt for the route that personally gives them the right feeling... and that's where I joined the debate in backing Andy's view that was rubbished by Saint

[smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

Rebel said:


> KevtoTTy said:
> 
> 
> > And for the record - I'll never go back to a manual!
> ...


I did 10,000 miles in 6 months in my DSG Golf GTI and went back to a manual< I have driven a V6 dsg and imo its far better suited to that engine/4wd transmission

I found it hesitancy annoying even with the gradual relase technique, and founs its prolly better with 4wd ie pulling out of a wet junction on a busy road, you see a gap wait for the delay then really have to put you foot down and the wheels spin :?

Also when doing 70 on the m-way in D you want accelerate past a vehicle put your foot down and it drops 2 maybe three cogs which means you are screaming the tits of it, I also seem to remember when going down more than one gear it wasn't that quick

In the end i only ever drove it in manual and when you are on it, the changes are brill and you have full control of the car as both hands are on the wheel

I just found it took something out of my drive, and the only time i miss it is when i am in traffic

Just my 2p and remember this was all in a Golf as well


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## shigs (Sep 16, 2006)

i've had both a 2.0T TTC manual and a 2.0T S-tronic TTR for quite some time now and i really have grown to dislike the S-tronic!

to put it simply, it just is not a box for a sports car! it is to smooth for its own good, takes away all the fun of drivin to be totally honest.

and as for the S-tronic being faster than manual..... i reeeeeeeally am sceptical on this 1. we have done many launches and i always come out ahead in the manual. S-troinc even in LC has a slight delay!

we have also done runs to 100mph and i pull a good 3-4 car lengths ahead, i firstly put this down to the obvious weight advantage the coupe has over the roadster but we put a weighty passenger in the coupe and done a re-run only to find the same results :?

pic of the two


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## Iceman (Jul 3, 2004)

A manual 6 speed gearbox would be my choise without a doubt.

Hans.


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

A lot off people are talking abouth sporty driving.......and never drove on a circuit.

All the people i had with me as a passenger on the Nurburgring where excited abouth the system on a circuit. 
Specialy on a circuit like the nurburgring where you need all your concentration on the steering wheel and youre mirrors.

it's quick and accurate.

But a lot off people don't understand how it works even after driving it 3 years they don't know and still complain.
And there is also a group who knows everything and don't own nothing.

If you take a testdrive in a MK2 with DSG, and you are thinking abouth buying the car with this option, just aks the dealer or the salesman to show how it works properly, it's a great change he knows how to handle the system very well. It all depends on subtile feetwork.
Some people just don't have it...
It is perfect in daily traffic, where you hardly can drive fast...with all the speedlimit's , and is superb on a circuit.
At last, it is still the fastest gearbox availble, so no way you can do a quicker lap on a circuit with a manual.


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

shigs said:


> and as for the S-tronic being faster than manual..... i reeeeeeeally am sceptical on this 1. we have done many launches and i always come out ahead in the manual. S-troinc even in LC has a slight delay!


Lot of crap above...

There was more than 100 times the link to the DSG-movie from you tube...
where two identical car's raced against each other by professional racer's.
One with manual and one with DSG.

They did a several starts, and changed car's ....and every time the DSG was much quicker.

How in earth is it possible that you didn't see those movies?
You are just trying to create rumours.
I spoke several MK2 drovers from germany last visit's on the nurburgring, and guess? they also drove DSG.....  
And the rest above abouth being not sportive with a DSG.....when did you drove both car's on a circuit?
looks like the people who know everything abouth car's and gearboxes alway's are at home...

no leave that answere......i already know it...

:lol:


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## shigs (Sep 16, 2006)

Rebel said:


> A lot off people are talking abouth sporty driving.......and never drove on a circuit.
> 
> All the people i had with me as a passenger on the Nurburgring where excited abouth the system on a circuit.
> Specialy on a circuit like the nurburgring where you need all your concentration on the steering wheel and youre mirrors.
> ...


on a circuit your probably right rebel, but as your pretty much always in motion there wouldnt be any of the initial delays which the box has.

but lets be real here, if you want a proper track car, you do not buy a TT! so if you want a car which is 80% for the ring you have brought the wrong motor.

on the street, for me its manual all the way. alot more involving and fun to drive


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

I didn't bought a car for the Ring...i bought a car for fun.
It's not my daily car, it's not the car from my wife, it's just there for fun.
Just like my MK1 was.

But like alway's the people who know everything abouth driving, never drove on the limit with their car. 
I almost drove 350 laps with my Mk1 on the ring (with esp off) and pretty know where the limit was from that car.
I spinned 2 times in all those times. Because you don't know where the limit is, if you don't pass it....right?

With the MK2 i'm still learning and searching, because the limit (with esp off) is further away than with the MK1.
Why must i believe you? Why are your words more than mine?
I'm no "polisher" or some-one who post pics how shiney his car is everyweek. The only pic's i post are from a MK2 which is driving.....and where the driver enjoys driving.

You are in advantage that this forum is in english because my english is not so good, and i don't want to spend a few hours to search for translation, but if it was in my language you where no match for me...

In dutch we got some great words for this.....

" De beste stuurlui staan altijd aan wal"

translated:

"The best shippers are always on land" (not)


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

Can you turn the ESP fully off in the MK2


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

BAMTT said:


> Can you turn the ESP fully off in the MK2


Yes.

But 99% from the drivers are afraid that something creapy will happen :wink:

With ESP-on you can't drive on a circuit.....


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## T3 (Sep 24, 2006)

yeah sorry shigs. I have outlaunched and obliterated 2 seperate 2.0 TTs ( both manual) in my stronic. ( pinch of salt on the word obliterate- 2 car lenghs over the 400m and 3 car lengh with the other) 8)

regarding the clip Rebel is referring to... here it be..


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Thx T3,

The good thing abouth DSG is that even a woman can outlaunched and obliterate a manual gearbox :lol:


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

Rebel said:


> BAMTT said:
> 
> 
> > Can you turn the ESP fully off in the MK2
> ...


No ESP/EBD on STI Scooby's   :twisted:


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

Interesting to see this discussion about S-tronic.

I had my TT with S-tronic for 7 months, 11000 miles and two trackdays in different tracks (Bedford and Donington). After that experience I went back to manual and don't want a semi-automated gearbox any more.

Now, S-tronic is a good system and is probably the best gearbox in the market at the moment. In town it works very well, D mode is smooth and easy to drive around slowly and manual mode is good to use too. On open A or B roads it goes extremely well.

On the track I have mixed experiences with it: in Donington it works very well and I enjoyed it, but in Bedford it was extremely annoying. In the straights for example, to use manual mode I couldn't redline the car. If I revved the engine up to the red line many times the system would activate its "safety" shift exactly at the time I was flicking the paddle, resulting in a double shift and that was most annoying.

Also what I found is that not having the gear stick and the clutch pedal to play with was a bit dull. Every time I got to drive a manual car in the meantime I felt like I was enjoying a lot more that than my S-tronic.

The first few weeks with my TT were great but after the novelty factor wore off then I got bored of it.


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Therefore one of BMW's topmodels if it comes to sportscars (the M3) will be availble with DSG....

"De beste stuurlui staan wal"


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## vagman (Sep 6, 2002)

How anyone can claim that a manual gearbox equipped car can out-drag a DSG equipped car is laughable. :lol:

Accelerating from halt whilst in Sport is great fun as the box holds on to the revs and changes up at precisely the right moment. 

A must have option for anyone thinking of purchasing a TT.

I'm another who will not go back to a manual.


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

vagman said:


> How anyone can claim that a manual gearbox equipped car can out-drag a DSG equipped car is laughable. :lol:
> 
> Accelerating from halt whilst in Sport is great fun as the box holds on to the revs and changes up at precisely the right moment.
> 
> ...


When i want to hold on to a steering wheel and press buttons i use an XBOX


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## Iceman (Jul 3, 2004)

I don't like all the modern electronic gadgeds on cars, it spoils the driving fun.

Hans.


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

BAMTT said:


> vagman said:
> 
> 
> > How anyone can claim that a manual gearbox equipped car can out-drag a DSG equipped car is laughable. :lol:
> ...


These famous words where done by Lewis Hamilton?


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Iceman said:


> I don't like all the modern electronic gadgeds on cars, it spoils the driving fun.
> 
> Hans.


Therefore you drive a T-ford?

We live in 2007 Hans :wink: 
I love all kind of modern technology. Not only in daily live but also on car's
Magnetic Ride is one off them.
No suspension can give me a balanced car on the track as well a complete comfortable travelingcar for me and my wife within one hour later...

If you don't like car's without all this kind off stuff, you are on the wrong side off the road with Audi Hans.

*Vorsprung durch technik*.............that's where Audi stands for....

Not for.... i love the good old times, bring back Elvis and The T-ford....


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

Rebel said:


> BAMTT said:
> 
> 
> > vagman said:
> ...


Not intentional


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

Rebel said:


> Therefore one of BMW's topmodels if it comes to sportscars (the M3) will be availble with DSG....
> 
> "De beste stuurlui staan wal"


I'm sure we will see more and more cars equipped with dual-clutch semi-automated 'boxes, as it is indeed the future. And if the car doesn't have a dual-clutch system it will have some alternative that will behave similarly as that is what more and more people are demanding, but I feel a bit sorry for it because I really like manual boxes with manually operated clutches.

On my first lap with my Z in Bedford last Friday the manual box just felt right and I felt fully in control. If I didn't gear down it wouldn't do it for me neither would it shift up if I didn't do so...

And as you can notice from my comments, the DSG system itself works great, what bugged me was the computer overrides. BMW's SMG doesn't have any computer overrides, so I hope they will make their DSG-like box in the same way.

BTW, I tried to wach your 'Ring video (I must have missed when you posted it) but it seems to be not available any more. Do you have it online anywhere?


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

Rebel just one question do you need an auto to be a good driver :lol:


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

You know that Walter Rohrl thats not you :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Hood49 (Jun 29, 2007)

We just want to have fun with our cars. If for one person fun is having all the first class modern state-of-the-art electronics, so be it.

I have a friend who has a Dodge Viper. A drive around the countryside with this car make you want to run to the first toilet you see. For me the thrill is going through the manual gearbox and feeling that there is nothing else controlling the engine - suspension - gears than me.


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

I have S-Tronic and I like it very much. I've driven it once on track and found it ok but I was learning a lot at that time. I've also driven a 3.2 on track and found then the trait of changing up/down at unwanted times. There are things you can do to work with the S-Tronic as you learn how to get the best out of it. Intelligent use of the throttle can control the change points and the flappy paddles can override the selected gear in D and S positions.
Certainly S-Tronic and systems like it will be the way forward as people adopt up to date technology and manufacturers seek to reduce their overall CO2 emissions. I find that in D mine will go into 6th gear by 30mph if driven gently - I'd never do that with a manual. The TT is not my only car, the others are manuals.

Perhaps we need some more electronic help with S-Tronic; :idea: we have engine remaps and haldex upgrades so what about having an S-Tronic upgrade.

How about a switchable electronic upgrade which would allow the driver FULL control of change points?? Surely one of the companies that specialise in engine remaps could do this as well?? :?:


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Darkstar, i didn't post that video on my server.
Because i didn't know i was filmed that lap. At night some friends put it on a server and put some words to it and made some jokes with it on a dutch forum.
But i wil send you a link where you can see the full version, i will upload it to my own hosting :wink: 
You can see on the Vid, how many turns and how many traffic you have to pass in one lap. Therefore i like the DSG, i can concentrate on steering and looking in the mirror's. And second , it's very quick with changing gears.

What i don't understand is, that people complain abouth the fact that DSG change gear by his own, when they don't want it.
How the f*ck could you possibly drive one lap on a circuit like the nurburgring when the car decide when to change gear. So many turn's, so many up-hill and down-hill section's. The car doesn't decide it. the driver does.

Only driver who don't understand how DSG works can't handle the system. You can give full throttle in every gear and the gearbox will only turn up when the rev-needle get into the "red area".
So tell me, what is wrong with that fact?

But the problem is, that if somebody is driving in second gear, and he wants to accelerate, he puts the throttle to the floor like a farmer without brains. because he thinks he is quicker, and than the gearbox will change back to the first gear indeed.
No way that you will be quicker that way.
It all depends on how sensible you can work with your feet.
Full speed accelerating isn't hard if you use your feet and your brains.
Learn that you don't have to push the pedal thrue the floor.

I'm not impressed by some people above, who talk like they are micheal schumacher. Because they never showed a movie how good they are, or how good the car is in their hands.
Lot of TT drivers are sissy's from the first hour.


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Hood49 said:


> We just want to have fun with our cars. If for one person fun is having all the first class modern state-of-the-art electronics, so be it.
> 
> I have a friend who has a Dodge Viper. A drive around the countryside with this car make you want to run to the first toilet you see. For me the thrill is going through the manual gearbox and feeling that there is nothing else controlling the engine - suspension - gears than me.


There where some clowns who said it was slower than manual, and later on we showed them the film and they turn back in their cave.
I never said that manual sucks, i only defend the DSG-gearbox.
Because proberly i'm the only one on this "glamour-model-forum" who use it on a track maybe?
And forum's are for discussing these things, ain't they? :wink:


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Good point VicTT.....maybe in the near future :wink:


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

Rebel said:


> I'm not impressed by some people above, who talk like they are micheal schumacher.


They :lol: Your the only one that talks like that, When I'm on the Ring this and when I'm on the ring that



Rebel said:


> If you would follow me on a track, you would see me for 20 seconds and than you went home, polishing your S3.


C'mon Rebel admit it you are Walter Rohrl aren't you :lol:


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

I am sure that S-tronic isn't something that you just stick into D or S. It needs to be driven a certain way to get the most out of it , not all that different from normal just taylored to the box slightly.That said its not something that you are going to find out on a hour or so test drive :?


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## markrbooth (Sep 25, 2006)

Only just caught up with this thread so here's my 2p. I spent a lot of time testing the Golf GTi and R32 in manual and DSG variants before the new TT came out and I initially loved DSG. But the more I drove it, the more it just felt like any other auto box. It's smooth as silk, great on the M25 car park, and I even found myself driving slower round town, but immediate getaways on roundabouts are nigh on impossible. And I just can't get used to a car changing up a gear as I go through a corner (hairy moment!) or kicking down on the exit. I know it's all down to driving style but I like the manual style for now so I'll stick with a manual........ for now


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

I've said this from 2003 - with DSG you gotta learn how to drive it - it's not a manual & neither is it a straight auto.

As WEM said - it's not just about sticking it in D or S or using paddles or not .... sheez.


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## rmwd (Feb 13, 2007)

Rebel said:


> Darkstar, i didn't post that video on my server.
> Because i didn't know i was filmed that lap. At night some friends put it on a server and put some words to it and made some jokes with it on a dutch forum.
> But i wil send you a link where you can see the full version, i will upload it to my own hosting :wink:
> You can see on the Vid, how many turns and how many traffic you have to pass in one lap. Therefore i like the DSG, i can concentrate on steering and looking in the mirror's. And second , it's very quick with changing gears.
> ...


Rebel I appreciate what you're trying to say but I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean. 
I'm getting my 2.0 s tronic TT next week and would really like some tips on how to get the most out of the DSG box so I don't have to spend months getting to grips with it.
Would you be willing to write a thread on how to make the most out of the dsg box on a TT? I'm sure there are plenty of people getting their TT's next week who'd really benefit from your experience.
Thanks


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

Rebel said:


> Darkstar, i didn't post that video on my server.
> Because i didn't know i was filmed that lap. At night some friends put it on a server and put some words to it and made some jokes with it on a dutch forum.
> But i wil send you a link where you can see the full version, i will upload it to my own hosting :wink:
> You can see on the Vid, how many turns and how many traffic you have to pass in one lap. Therefore i like the DSG, i can concentrate on steering and looking in the mirror's. And second , it's very quick with changing gears.
> ...


I will appreciate if you send me the link when you upload the video.

As with any car (maybe even more RWD) you need to be smooth in the throttle, so yes I don't use it as a on/off switch. Thing is, in a track like Donington Park S-tronic worked great, but I couldn't make it work the way I wanted in Bedford. These tracks have very different characteristics, so I'm of the opinion that S-tronic will do well in certain types of tracks and not so well in others.

Another thing I noticed in Bedford is that at the end of the South Straight, in a manual car I would arrive at the braking point in 5th gear and when downshifting I would slot directly 3rd gear, very easily and intuitively. S-tronic to do the same operation was slower (moving to a lower gear in the same clutch) as it would need to switch the gear in the second clutch to a lower one (it would have pre-selected 6th gear in that clutch), switch to that clutch to then select 3rd gear in the odd-gears clutch and switch back to the first clutch.

The whole point I'm trying to make is that S-tronic is probably the best semi-automated system out there, but that doesn't mean it is perfect. It needs some things to be solved. In a short time I'm sure Audi will sort these things off and it will get better and better.

Also I appreciate that in the 'Ring you want to have as much time available to concentrate on the mirrors and overtakes and changing gears detract from that, but on car-only trackdays it is not necessarily the case.

BTW, did you see my write up about driving Bedford in the Z? I will be at Castle Combe in the 21st of September so I welcome anybody who wants to have some fun to turn up and I will be more than happy to take them as passengers. Soon I will be in the 'Ring and Spa too, so same thing there... 8)


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## philbur (Apr 15, 2007)

Looks like Rebel has set the criteria for being allowed to think you are M.Schu. 8), who ever he was. You need to make a video of your driving skills. I wonder why that might be. [smiley=jester.gif]

Phil

PS:
I thought the line on some of those corners was aweful. Still what do I know I haven't even published a video yet. :wink: :roll:

PPS: 
Come on Rebel your thought processes are so child-like and transparent my toes are curling up in embarassment for you.



Rebel said:


> I'm not impressed by some people above, who talk like they are micheal schumacher. Because they never showed a movie how good they are, or how good the car is in their hands.
> Lot of TT drivers are sissy's from the first hour.


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## shigs (Sep 16, 2006)

philbur said:


> Looks like Rebel has set the criteria for being allowed to think you are M.Schu. 8), who ever he was. You need to make a video of your driving skills. I wonder why that might be. [smiley=jester.gif]
> 
> Phil
> 
> ...


best to just ignore most of his post mate. very child like indeed :roll:


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## shigs (Sep 16, 2006)

philbur said:


> Looks like Rebel has set the criteria for being allowed to think you are M.Schu. 8), who ever he was. You need to make a video of your driving skills. I wonder why that might be. [smiley=jester.gif]
> 
> Phil
> 
> ...


best to just ignore most of his post mate. very child like indeed :roll:


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## shigs (Sep 16, 2006)

tehdarkstar said:


> Rebel said:
> 
> 
> > Darkstar, i didn't post that video on my server.
> ...


Hi there Mate,

how is the Z4M treating you? have you added the advised strut brace and side skirts yet?... also try get some CSL alloys on :wink:

i've been very much considering one of these / even a csl for quite some while, just don't fancy the insurance quotes!


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

Hi there *shigs*, the Z is doing very well. It's more than I wanted as I didn't expect it was going to be this good. The insurance premium is hard to swallow indeed, but it is worth it. The car is every bit special.

I had the strut brace fitted by the dealer before I took delivery and I think that makes a massive difference in the balance of the car. I'm very happy with it. As for the wheels and tyres, I still haven't decided what to do. Seems like every second Z4M on the roads is running on CSLs, so I don't feel too excited about putting the same wheels on mine. I was thinking about some BBS RX2 or perhaps some OZ Ultraleggera Crystal, but maybe I will just leave the standard 18s on... Not sure TBH.

TBH, I like the looks of the car as it is so much that I don't feel the need to change its aesthetics. First I will change brake pads, fluid and maybe hoses to improve the brake feel.


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

rmwd, i will try it in my best english and send it with a PB.

For example...

I drive often in the D in daily traffic, and if i want to overtake someone i just push the stick to the right for some seconds, push the throttle and than after i overtake the car, i put it back in D again

Like you are in the 3 gear.
The Turbo-engine has enough power with lower rev's, so you don't want the car to go back to the 3th gear, which the gearbox would proberly have done if you let it in the D-mode.

Another exmaple.....

If you are in the D mode, and want to accelerate but you don't wat to change gear to quick, than it all depends on how fast and how far you push the throttle......you can actualy correct the moment when the box must change gear....with your feet.
This will need some practize, because you can't learn it in one week...

There are many way's to drive with a DSG. I've learned that a simple push on the brake for some milisecond will result in a much quicker downshift.
Downshifting is sometimes not so quick as you think. (still quicker than manual )

I will post my experience with DSG to you, rmwd.

Philbur, it would be nice to tell me where the lines where incorrect....instead of shounting like a chicken without a head. :wink: 
I didn't hear you when the video was online?
Now it's gone, and you new it better?? :lol:

You asked me who was micheal schumacher? It was the best F-1 racer we ever had on this earth. It was the the cleverest racer whe had on this world, because he was that clever, that he could take the championship from the dumb englishman, called Damon Hill....who couldn't race at all.
Great action how the englishman was f*cked in the ass by the german in Australie. I loved that race :wink: 
If you want to now more abouth schumacher, just ask me, i will help you out.

Darkstar, the TT isn't a car for driving on a track. You must know that now. Brakes are shit , for exmaple.
Indeed driving on the Ring is different than on donington.
I was so fait that i posted the video on this forum, so everybody could see it. It was there fort a week. Something you would never do proberly.
You have made youre opninion abouth DSG, so what's the use showing you the movie ? You already made youre point, and are also on the "anti-rebel_ camp. (which i dind't exspect from you, because we where the only two who proberly drove the car on the limit) according the "brake-story"...

I didn't baught the car for driving on the Ring.
With my other TT i drove there more than 300 laps, without any upgrades.
With this TT i drove 56 laps till now. 
If you saw the video, you see, that it is not abouth racing. The ring isn't a racecircuit. It's all abouth driving the proper lines, and learning how the car reacts in situations which you can't create on public streets.
On this forum are a lot off people who now everything abouth the TT, but if you ask them if they ever drift with the car with ESP out, they are gone. 
No problem with that. Not at all. I know better.

shigs did a post where he told us that the DSG version was slower than manual... after some people laught abouth that fact and we showed him the movie, he was gone like a chicken. 
Now that he found some mates, he is back with some "strong" words.....such a hero.

Shigs.... Je bent de grootste oliebol van het ********, ik hoop dat je nog lang lid blijft, zodat we allemaal kunnen genieten van je onnozele opmerkingen. Je bent een echte clown en geeft dit forum een beetje kleur." :wink:


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

In oktober we will visit the Ardennes (Belgium) with a group, where we hired the testtrack from Peugeot in Malmedy for one day. 
it's a nice short track, with many corners. There will be a time-atack also.

I will post pics and a movie offcorse so we all can see how terrible DSG handles.
So the muppets ...Philbur and shigs....can have a big laugh again...


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

Well Rebel might get a bit of flak but some of these posts have been highly amusing 



Rebel said:


> So the muppets ...Philbur and shigs....can have a big laugh again...


Which one is which?


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## philbur (Apr 15, 2007)

I think that's me with the tash. Although I'm a bit thinner on top now. Probably taken when I was a much younger man, in my 70's. [smiley=toff.gif]

Rebel: I didn't previously comment because I'm to polite. However once you reference your video and your self proclaimed driving skills in the same breath as Schumacher I felt compelled to comment. Put any dick-head in a good car and he'll look great, you've proven that. [smiley=jester.gif]

Personally I think Stronic is absolutely great, that's why I included it in my spec., so can I please be down graded to a minor muppet, I kinda fancy being the chef. [smiley=chef.gif]

Regards
Phil



Wondermikie said:


> Well Rebel might get a bit of flak but some of these posts have been highly amusing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

Rebel said:


> Darkstar, the TT isn't a car for driving on a track. You must know that now. Brakes are shit , for exmaple.
> Indeed driving on the Ring is different than on donington.
> I was so fait that i posted the video on this forum, so everybody could see it. It was there fort a week. Something you would never do proberly.
> You have made youre opninion abouth DSG, so what's the use showing you the movie ? You already made youre point, and are also on the "anti-rebel_ camp. (which i dind't exspect from you, because we where the only two who proberly drove the car on the limit) according the "brake-story"...
> ...


Sorry mate, you must have misunderstood me. I'm not in the anti-Rebel flank or anything. I just thought we we're having a pub-talk about the merits of DSG and so I was discussing my impressions and what I think needs to be fixed before it can really work for any type of driving.

I don't have a camera to record my track laps, but if I had I would post it here and I asked about your video only out of interest to see you driving in the 'Ring. I may have missed it because I have been on-off in this site, spending some times as much as two weeks without coming here (mostly due to work commitments), so I didn't see your post and when I saw your comment that you had posted a video here I went looking for it.

As for the TT not being a car for the track, I think it is as much as any other stock road car from main manufacturers. It can work with the appropriate upgrades. The brakes on the Z didn't impress me either as you will know if you have read my Bedford write-up.

Again, I was just tryint to make conversation and discuss about the merits of DSG, I wasn't trying to be anti or pro anybody... :?


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

philbur said:


> ...can I please be down graded to a minor muppet, I kinda fancy being the chef. [smiley=chef.gif]


OK then, you could make it into an avatar now :lol:


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## philbur (Apr 15, 2007)

Thanks that will do nicely.

Phil



Wondermikie said:


> philbur said:
> 
> 
> > ...can I please be down graded to a minor muppet, I kinda fancy being the chef. [smiley=chef.gif]
> ...


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## philbur (Apr 15, 2007)

It's OK Rebel I can find lots of hits on Schumacher but can't find anything on the name of the last Dutchman to win a F1 world championship. Even that "dumb" Englishman Damon Hill won one so I guess the Flying Dutchman won a shed load. What was his name again? 

Regards
Phil

Oh PS: Do you know why Dutch women are so ugly and Dutch men so thick.

Because Holland is where the Vikings dropped off all their reject slaves on the way back to Scandinavia. :lol:

Sorry, childish I know but I couldn't resist.



Rebel said:


> You asked me who was micheal schumacher? It was the best F-1 racer we ever had on this earth. It was the the cleverest racer whe had on this world, because he was that clever, that he could take the championship from the dumb englishman, called Damon Hill....who couldn't race at all.
> Great action how the englishman was f*cked in the ass by the german in Australie. I loved that race :wink:
> If you want to now more abouth schumacher, just ask me, i will help you out.


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## rmwd (Feb 13, 2007)

Rebel said:


> rmwd, i will try it in my best english and send it with a PB.
> I will post my experience with DSG to you, rmwd.
> :


Thanks Rebel. Look forward to it


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