# £40,000,000,000? Where's our vote now?



## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

Theresa May has put forward a Brexit bid to satisfy the EU cronies of £40B

What I want to know is WHY we don't get a vote on if we want to pay this monstrous sum? This isn't a tiny drop in the ocean we're talking about £40B which is absurd!

To put this in perspective, Britain has a population of 65,000,000 people, Let's say 50% of these people are either too young to work, retired, unemployed or disabled.

This reduces the number of people able to foot this bill to around the 32,500,000 mark... This means these tax payers will be footing a bill of over £1000 EACH! How can our government agree to something like this without our permission, outrageous and despicable [smiley=bomb.gif]


----------



## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

TT Tom TT said:


> Theresa May has put forward a Brexit bid to satisfy the EU cronies of £40B
> 
> What I want to know is WHY we don't get a vote on if we want to pay this monstrous sum? This isn't a tiny drop in the ocean we're talking about £40B which is absurd!
> 
> ...


Or put another way - *Just over 2 years worth of contributions at £350,000,000 per week*

The government currently pays (based on your calculations) around £500 per working head per year to the EU.

Not such a monstrous sum now is it?


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

TT Tom TT said:


> What I want to know is WHY we don't get a vote on if we want to pay this monstrous sum?


We *did* get a vote on this. Unfortunately, 52% of the country chose it.


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

mighTy Tee said:


> Or put another way - *Just over 2 years worth of contributions at £350,000,000 per week*


Oh come on. That figure has been so thoroughly debunked that even the Leave campaign stopped using it.

We 'send' £248m per week to the EU, but that figure does not take into account EU payments to the UK. Include those payments and you get to roughly £136m per week net.


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Then you have to consider the benefits from trade etc which is why we and other member states pay a membership fee to be in the club in the first place. If there wasn't a net benefit nobody would be in the club.

Nobody has yet demonstrated the advantage of leaving. All there seem to be are real disadvantages.

Paying a large bill to settle your obligations made under the existing treaty being an obvious one. You can see why those sold the idea of freeing up more money for the NHS are suddenly feeling conned by this dent in the cash flow.

Thing is though, we'll lose more in the long run from not being in the club - the obvious elephant in the room - that if there wasn't an advantage to club membership the club wouldn't exist.

Remind me why we are doing this?


----------



## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

John-H said:


> Remind me why we are doing this?


I would suggest because of Gordon Brown..yeh the guy who ditched the manifesto promise of a UK referendum on the new eu constitution/Lisbon Treaty (not on actually leaving Europe/eec) and went off and did a Chamberlain on the Lisbon Treaty.
Yes the same Gordon Brown who is now making noises about a second referendum on actual EU leaving ..9 years is a short time in politics .


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

He was only just in office a few months by the time the Lisbon treaty was signed and that was ten years ago. Are you trying to say all the leave voters were thinking of Gordon Brown in particular when they voted? How very peculiar [smiley=dizzy2.gif]

P.S. It's "a week" that's a long time in politics


----------



## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

The reasons why I mention him for "why" are a few.
1.He denied the promised referendum(cos he might have lost..sure) but it was not a possible on leaving just 
on rejecting changes/treaty or not.
2.The actual treaty signing was done by him and secretly..only announced 24 hrs later when the papers were in the diplomatic bag/whatever..done deal boys,suck it (so to speak).
I remember the furore at the time + the public some of them were v annoyed at the coup and no vote (cos he could get away with it).
For why then.. all Im saying is that G Brown for expediency and to keep his eec counterparts happy..he was the "new boy" as you say bulled thru something v important.

Im not saying all the leave voters were influenced by this but all it needed was 1 or 2% of them to have a "bad memory" of the "last referendum ",which never happened to swing the vote.I think thats reasonable and find his pontificating recently a bit ironic.


----------



## FJ1000 (Nov 21, 2015)

John-H said:


> Remind me why we are doing this?


- David Cameron's stupid decision
- Leave's lies and underhanded campaign
- Xenophobia 
- A sensationalist tabloid press
- People blaming problems created by austerity on Europe
- Young people not turning up to vote in the same numbers as the pensioners

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> We did get a vote on this. Unfortunately, 52% of the country chose it.


Well that`s democracy for you.


----------



## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> Remind me why we are doing this?


Germany for 1 and 2 world wars for another.


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bobclive22 said:


> > Remind me why we are doing this?
> 
> 
> Germany for 1 and 2 world wars for another.


Massively frustrated that you just missed the war? No problem! Just hold a grudge all your life, then finally get revenge by voting Leave shortly before you die!
:lol:


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bobclive22 said:


> > We did get a vote on this. Unfortunately, 52% of the country chose it.
> 
> 
> Well that`s democracy for you.


Yep, they really will let any idiot get a vote.


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

bobclive22 said:


> > We did get a vote on this. Unfortunately, 52% of the country chose it.
> 
> 
> Well that`s democracy for you.


So you'd like a vote on the final deal then Bob?


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

bobclive22 said:


> > Remind me why we are doing this?
> 
> 
> Germany for 1 and 2 world wars for another.


The idea of the EU in origin was for a political union through trade in order to stop the countries of Europe warring with each other - as championed by Churchill. You must remember Churchill saying in 1953, when the British empire since 1945 had been in decline and favorable commonwealth trade drying up, that the UK should join the European community and that the pooling of sovereignty was a price worth paying so that all men may come home together, as he put it.

Are you planning, by this divorce, on taking us to war to win back the empire Bob?


----------



## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

bobclive22 said:


> > Remind me why we are doing this?
> 
> 
> Germany for 1 and 2 world wars for another.


Seriously?

You forgot the other European nations we've had problems with in the past..
France - William the Conc, Waterloo & Agincourt
Spain - Trafalgar
Sweden & Denmark - Viking invasions

:lol:


----------



## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

I think the problem with Germany..and Europe to a lesser extent was model railways and driving on the wrong side of the road.
We in Ireland have the correct driving side but the wrong speed measurements 
Np in 2 years time we will have the wrong driving side but the correct speed measurements(for the euromassifs).
With the UK gone how long will it take for the fu tiny population country effect to kick in ,,, ve tell you vat to do and the NI vs rest of Ireland border "ask me if ve care" 

It was allways incredibly frustrating for me to have Triang Hornby 00 rolling stock incompatible with Marklin fleischmann and even rivarossi HO.
Triang wrenn had superior rolling stock quality to the european stuff but were any homoglation regs passed? not a bit of it.
Dont get me started on the cool 00 scale real world UK cardboard railroad buildings vs the HO plastic european eidelweiss mountain chalet stuff.
The figures..gg the HO stuff looked like midgets..er vertically challenged .
It was a total mess and never fixed!


----------



## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

3TT3 said:


> I think the problem with Germany..and Europe to a lesser extent was model railways and driving on the wrong side of the road.
> We in Ireland have the correct driving side but the wrong speed measurements
> Np in 2 years time we will have the wrong driving side but the correct speed measurements(for the euromassifs).
> With the UK gone how long will it take for the fu tiny population country effect to kick in ,,, ve tell you vat to do and the NI vs rest of Ireland border "ask me if ve care"
> ...


I thought Ireland were changing to driving on the right, but to aid the transition, were doing just trucks and buses in the first year. Or was that just an old racist joke from my childhood? :wink:

8)


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Alexi Sayle said that the way he remembers to drive on the correct side is to adapt a well known saying used for tightening screws. He says, "Righty tighty, lefty CRASHY!"


----------



## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> Massively frustrated that you just missed the war? No problem! Just hold a grudge all your life, then finally get revenge by voting Leave shortly before you die!


And who is the most powerful country in the EU,

At the beginning of her third term, Merkel has more power in Germany and Europe than any chancellor before her. There hasn't been such a strong majority behind a government in Germany's parliament, the Bundestag, since the first grand coalition half a century ago. In the midst of the European crisis, *Germany has become the undisputed dominant power in Europe.

German Empire by stealth.
*
http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 28988.html


----------



## bobclive22 (Apr 5, 2010)

> Seriously?
> 
> You forgot the other European nations we've had problems with in the past..
> France - William the Conc, Waterloo & Agincourt
> ...


William the Conc and the Viking invasions we couldn`t do much about .
Battle of Trafalgar, I believe we won that one.
Germany had 2 goes, this is the third by stealth and I believe by leaving we have scuppered that.


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bobclive22 said:


> And who is the most powerful country in the EU,
> 
> At the beginning of her third term, Merkel has more power in Germany and Europe than any chancellor before her. There hasn't been such a strong majority behind a government in Germany's parliament, the Bundestag, since the first grand coalition half a century ago. In the midst of the European crisis, *Germany has become the undisputed dominant power in Europe.
> 
> ...


Seriously BobBot, who cares? The only people still trying to win a war with Germany are all the frustrated armchair generals from your generation. You all grew up listening to everyone talking first hand about a war that you didn't experience and it's left you all desperate to prove yourselves, but with no way to do it. So instead you live out ridiculous fantasies about a resurgent British empire that no one wants except a bunch of coffin dodgers, desperate to wind the clock back to the imagined halcyon days they missed out on the first time.


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

bobclive22 said:


> and I believe by leaving we have scuppered that.


If anything, by leaving, we've put the dominant countries in Europe in even more of a powerful position. We are one of the most powerful countries in the EU - do you think that removing our potential veto helps or hinders Germany??


----------



## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

SPECSMAN said:


> I thought Ireland were changing to driving on the right, but to aid the transition, were doing just trucks and buses in the first year. Or was that just an old racist joke from my childhood? :wink:
> 
> 8)


 :lol: nah its all to do with the english occupiers you see thir, all the donkeys potato tumbrills and turf carts were used to bein on the left. European import donkeys used to bein on the right and narrow mud dirt tracks ..you see the problem.
Thanx to EU money and kissy kissy we went all kilometery on roadsigns etc , was great money for the locals .
Now weel be one of the last countries of v small size with rhd cars(lhs of the road in direction of travel) most likely the only one with km equipped speedos and signs :lol: 
Will that be allowed to stand..course not . Much more important than a north south border.Weel use the oirish to cause even more trouble for the UK.. thatll teach em to be uppity.

Its kind of ironic , if you consider the UK to be one of the most powerfull countries in Europe ,that it cant still be out of the EU (not eec) .
Another aspect (I think) of G (chummy) Brown was that he was gung ho to the idea of joining the euro , but was advised it would be a bridge to far to get relected,kinda moot.
Sure not every "EU" country is in the euro but UK is the only significant one which didnt join.
Why did Germany..nice easy rentry for east Germany..wot happened there  ..might as well then.!
No David Cameron. you cant play marbles with us cos youre not in the euro :roll:

Here we had the ludicrous situation of "breaking with the british pound" in like 1980 to make the Irish punt (Im sure they did).
Rapidly the Irish punt went down the toilet vs the pound sterling despite bs about it being worth more..cheap exports rules!.
less than 20 years later we join the euro..nonsensical since most of our trade was with/thru UK and then the Euro goes even below the irish punt value.. now were whinging about the euro going up a bit vs sterling.Cant have your cake and eat it /let them eat cake.
I could go on and on.. :lol: probably do
"get on your bikes n ride"


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

3TT3 said:


> Its kind of ironic , if you consider the UK to be one of the most powerfull countries in Europe ,that it cant still be out of the EU (not eec) .


Have you been getting English lessons from Alanis Morissette?


----------



## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

3TT3 said:


> SPECSMAN said:
> 
> 
> > I thought Ireland were changing to driving on the right, but to aid the transition, were doing just trucks and buses in the first year. Or was that just an old racist joke from my childhood? :wink:
> ...


Two points...

1. Did the Irish choose the name "Punt" for their currency, because it rhymes with "Bank Manager?"

2. Ignore Spandex.

8)


----------



## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

It was the Irish word for the pound, spelt punt but actually pronounced poont , which was nearly worse!


----------



## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

No one has really fully explained to me why.....

A. When we voted to leave, it was not more or less an instant separation.

B. Why we have to pay them sweet FA. They have had enough out of us since Ted Heath conned us into joining in the first place. (Don't blame me, even old Specsman was too young to vote for that  )

I do not require a lecture from Spandex on either point.

8)


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

SPECSMAN said:


> No one has really fully explained to me why.....
> 
> A. When we voted to leave, it was not more or less an instant separation.
> 
> ...


I will briefly then. We signed a treaty to join the club for its self evident benefits and over the last 45 years have made commitments with our partners to fund various projects and pension funds etc.

We're we to walk away from those long term agreements we made we would become a pariah state that would not be trusted to enter any future trade deal. It would be illegal under international treaty law.

That's why it can't be instant and a new treaty needs to be negotiated to cover the long term commitments that extend beyond the leaving date.

We currently pay 1.1% of UK GDP to run our share of the EU. We pay about twice that to run the UK government. Approximately half our trade is with the EU which in proportion in size of trade export is around 45 times the cost of our membership fee. Obviously it's a net benefit to be in the EU otherwise it wouldn't exist as a club.

Now can someone explain to me why we are doing this?


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

SPECSMAN said:


> I do not require a lecture from Spandex on either point.


Ok, I won't explain - I'll just ask the questions that inevitably follow from what you've written:

Did you think it would be instant or cost us nothing before you voted?

If you did think this, do you now feel like you were mislead and if so, by whom?
If you didn't think this, do you feel like you have any right to complain now that the thing you deliberately voted for is happening?


----------



## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

A few reasons for coming out.

Our free trade with the rest of the world, is currently restricted/controlled by the EU, to other EU countries. Coming out would increase our options.

The European union is a corrupt organisation that has NEVER balanced its books, to the satisfaction of its accountants.

It is easy to belittle the two world wars; but the other main players have achieved by stealth, what they could not by fighting us, with all the death and destruction that came with it. The Germans lost the war but are winning the peace, with our assistance.

BMW, Mercedes and the VAG group will still want to sell their cars, to arguably their best market. Everyone else, worldwide will still want to sell to us.

We can regain full control of our Laws and Government.

1.1% of our gross domestic product is a colossal amount of money and I fail to see anything tangible we have received for that cash.

[smiley=gossip.gif]

8)


----------



## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

Spandex said:


> SPECSMAN said:
> 
> 
> > I do not require a lecture from Spandex on either point.
> ...


If the vote was today, I would still vote leave.

Just because the current bunch of politicians (of all colours) have no balls (literally, in the case of the PM) we will probably pay this ridiculous figure, on top of the fleecing we have had for the last 40 years.

We should walk away, at no cost, and sort out our own affairs, let them do the hot air.

They NEED to make an example of us, to deter others from following suit....that's it, in a nutshell.

8)


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

SPECSMAN said:


> They NEED to make an example of us, to deter others from following suit....that's it, in a nutshell.


Absolutely. I've been saying exactly the same thing in various threads on here since before the referendum. It's an entirely understandable and predictable consequence of us leaving. But what I don't get is why some Leave voters are struggling to understand why there is a difference between what they _wanted_ to happen and what they _expected_ to happen.

Funnily enough, I have also said a number of times on here that Leave voters will never admit responsibility for the bad things that come with this - they'll just blame the politicians for not implementing their personal vision of Brexit correctly whenever anything doesn't go in our favour. I mean, we all knew there would be a massive divorce bill associated with this before we voted, but suddenly it's the politicians fault that we're paying it.


----------



## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

Spandex said:


> SPECSMAN said:
> 
> 
> > They NEED to make an example of us, to deter others from following suit....that's it, in a nutshell.
> ...


We could have told them to whistle for it, had we not spent countless billions on this socialist experiment (that will get you going)

If we had maintained a world beating Army, Navy and Airforce, we could have let them fight us for it, in every sense.

In fact, we still should.

8)

ps, Reminds me of my Nans old saying....  "If, ifs and buts were whisky and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas."


----------



## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

SPECSMAN said:


> We could have told them to whistle for it, had we not spent countless billions on this socialist experiment (that will get you going)
> 
> If we had maintained a world beating Army, Navy and Airforce, we could have let them fight us for it, in every sense.
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter how many ways you come up with for us to avoid paying, the point is that it was obvious and predictable before the referendum that we *would* have to pay a 'divorce bill' (and John has already explained the reasons for this). So, anyone who voted Leave was voting for us to pay that bill - whether they agree with paying it or not, they voted for it. This is what I mean about the difference between what you want and what you expect. You can't say "but I don't think we should pay" straight after choosing a path that we all knew would inevitably lead to us paying. Repeating it over and over doesn't absolve people from the responsibility of their choice.

Isn't it amazing how brave people get once they reach an age that makes them safe from having to do any of the actual fighting :wink:


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

SPECSMAN said:


> A few reasons for coming out.
> 
> Our free trade with the rest of the world, is currently restricted/controlled by the EU, to other EU countries. Coming out would increase our options.


No it isn't. That's a myth. There's nothing to stop us trading with the rest of the world now and we already do under WTO rules. What we can't do is negotiate free trade agreements and why would we want to when the EU with it's size advantage and negotiating experience can get a much better deal negotiated than we could on our own?

Since the EU agreed to split the WTO quota allocation with the UK on exit we've already had USA, Australia and Canada object and threaten trade sanctions - the very countries that Liam Fox said it would be so "easy" to strike free trade deals with. Trade deals are difficult to negotiate unless you agree to get walked over and dumped on (literally). It would drastically decrease our options and force us to make concessions such as taking chlorinated chicken, beef, lamb, GM foods, leading to take overs as our industry loses out including the likely sell off of the NHS, loss of workers rights and any other reduction of standards and consequence you care to mention as we drop our standards being so desperate to strike deals and get a replacement for the loss of the EU market on our doorstep.



SPECSMAN said:


> The European union is a corrupt organisation that has NEVER balanced its books, to the satisfaction of its accountants.


Not true. The EU has balanced books passed by auditors as "fair and accurate". They had problems in the past with errors but that doesn't mean fraud or corruption. So it's unfair and inaccurate to use the word "corrupt". Even if some individuals had been corrupt what government doesn't have problems with corrupt individuals from time to time? Our own UK government certainly have. But at least both governmental organisations are based on democracy and justice so you can hold them to account.

In a another post you say:



SPECSMAN said:


> We should walk away, at no cost, and sort out our own affairs, let them do the hot air.


What you are suggesting is illegal as I already explained. Robbing pension and development funds? How now stands a moral argument?



SPECSMAN said:


> It is easy to belittle the two world wars; but the other main players have achieved by stealth, what they could not by fighting us, with all the death and destruction that came with it. The Germans lost the war but are winning the peace, with our assistance.


I thought it was a very good idea of Winston Churchill and Roosevelt to engineer a political union through trade in order to ensure peace in Europe. We were the "sick man of Europe" but since the UK joined the EU we have done very well from it, apart from after the Brexit vote when we fell from the top growing economy of the G7 and EU to the lowest growth in the EU.



SPECSMAN said:


> BMW, Mercedes and the VAG group will still want to sell their cars, to arguably their best market. Everyone else, worldwide will still want to sell to us.


They will have to take the hit as the EU are not going to make exceptions to the rules. The UK, as one of many trading partners, accounts for 4%-5% of all other EU countries' imports and they export to us 6%-7% of their goods. Contrast that with the UK's 50% export dependence on the EU. Who is going to get hurt most do you think?



SPECSMAN said:


> We can regain full control of our Laws and Government.


Another myth. With every trade deal we sign we will give away sovereignty and have to be subject to external treaty law governing such agreements. At the moment we have significant rights and freedoms under EU law which gives us as citizens the right to take our government to task through the EU if our government fails to protect the environment, or workers rights etc. When we leave the EU we will have no such rights any more and the government are even bypassing parliament with executive powers written into statute. We the people, through our MPs are losing control of our government which is behaving more like a monarch.



SPECSMAN said:


> 1.1% of our gross domestic product is a colossal amount of money and I fail to see anything tangible we have received for that cash.
> 
> [smiley=gossip.gif]
> 
> 8)


I've already put it in perspective numerically. Here's a picture:


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

In light of Teresa May agreeing to ECJ jurisdiction under citizens rights and the £50bn divorce bill to try and get to talk about trade, the Mirror came up with a good phrase:



> Brexit is no longer a series of negotiations but an exercise in damage limitation.


The Mail said this morning before the reality became more obvious to the public:



> Theresa May's Brexit bill gamble appeared to have paid off last night...


Interesting attempt at spin from the Mail. Of course they want it to happen.


----------



## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

I tho not Uk am with the specsmans viewpoint.
Its more the EU crapping and trying to play nasty about their club so that it doesnt break up.
The "get out of jail free" clause (exit option) was probably only put in to make the whole thing seem democratic.
Brexit was a total Victor Meldrew " I dont believe it " jobbie for most european politicians .

The whole attitude portrayed by them smacks of "just cos the germans didnt invade them theyve gotten uppity" , them and their silly giant aircraft carrier.The french have never forgiven the UK for saving them (lets be honest).
Spanks for the naughty British and lets pretend we give a toss about the north south Irish border (we dont) its just another ploy in the carrot and stick thingy.
You guys be carefull you dont give away too much,is mho.
We for example if we had the temerity to try the same thing would be bitchslapped all the way to the USA not that we would ever be given the option to vote on it here.
In the USA( a union formed comparatively recently from disaffected colonists/migrants ,Irish too, who dropkicked the indigenous),there is a saying "remember the alamo"
I would say "Remember the eurovision"


----------



## FJ1000 (Nov 21, 2015)

We could have told them to whistle for it said:


> Just as the EU can tell us to go whistle for access to their market - the largest foreign destination for UK goods and services...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ashfinlayson (Oct 26, 2013)

SPECSMAN said:


> ps, Reminds me of my Nans old saying.... "If, ifs and buts were whisky and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas."


I like your nan SPECSMAN, she was a wise old gal.


----------



## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

Ashfinlayson: Thanks for your kind comments, she did indeed have a saying for every occasion.

This brexit thing polarises people and all the sincerely expressed viewpoints will not flex either side an inch (sorry 2.54cm thanks to EU)

Just like Labour v Conservative, in the working class area where I grew up.....

Nan would have said: "They could put Labour colours on a donkey, 'round here, and he would still get voted in".

3TT3: Thanks for your support, but lets leave the politics to the "experts" :lol:

8)


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

My favorite wise saying is:

*If it aint broke don't Brexit*


----------



## ashfinlayson (Oct 26, 2013)

Trouble is John, people have different definitions of what broke is


----------



## Stiff (Jun 15, 2015)

SPECSMAN said:


> Ashfinlayson: Thanks for your kind comments, she did indeed have a saying for every occasion.


Reminds me of my old grandma too. She used to have lots of old sayings. One of the main ones I remember from being a kid was whenever I was worried about something she would respond with...
"Don't worry, they can't take your breath away"
And she was right. Seems quite fitting in this whole Brexit debacle too. (And it's still way too early to know how it will all transpire. We can speculate all we want but nobody knows for sure and time will tell)


----------



## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

Stiff said:


> SPECSMAN said:
> 
> 
> > Ashfinlayson: Thanks for your kind comments, she did indeed have a saying for every occasion.
> ...


These sayings have filtered down into the later generations of my family; I still use her quip (when offering a sweet etc.)
"You can have two, if you want one". I could write a book!

It all stems from an age when people were real characters. They still exist of course but the humour seems less clever these days, somehow, but cruder. :?

And yes, the Brexit thing will be resolved, and we will get shafted, business as usual.

Specsman; old fart! 8)


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

ashfinlayson said:


> Trouble is John, people have different definitions of what broke is


Very true. Another saying is - 
You ain't seen nothing yet!


----------



## SPECSMAN (Oct 11, 2016)

John-H said:


> My favorite wise saying is:
> 
> *If it aint broke don't Brexit*


No wisdom in that statement.


----------



## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

SPECSMAN said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> > My favorite wise saying is:
> ...


More than you can imagine


----------

