# Police on the M4, Sunday evening



## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

Travelling back from Bristol on Sunday evening (after a great day) I could not believe my eyes when I saw a mobile camera van perched on a tiny bridge over the M4 just after the Swindon turn off.

Fortunately we were doing 65 in the inside lane but I couldn't believe it as it was night-time (didn't know they worked at night?) and they were still pointing that bloody camera out the side....even though the chance of catching anyone was so slim because of the intensity of the traffic volumes...but what infuriates me more is the whole concept of trying to curb speed so onerously on motorways.

I'm just sick of it - it's typical of our traffic coppers taking the idea that speed is the lowest common denominator in motorway accidents - THE BIGGEST CAUSE OF MOTORWAY ACCIDENTS IS NOT SPEED IT IS JUST PLAIN AWFUL SHITE DRIVING.

I have been particularly careful the last few weeks after receiving points to keep my speed at a steady 70-75 mph.....I usually cruise at a higher speed but am so shit-scared that a 3 second acceleration from 70 to 80 mph to rid myself of the wanker sitting on my rear bumper will cost me another 3 points by getting nabbed by a van stuck behind a corner .......this is no way for us all to be driving....the Police are trying to rule by fear (and to a certain extent are succeeding) but I personally feel this actually leads to MORE accidents occurring, not less.

I am cruising more in the inside and middle lanes due to keeping to 70 mph and I can wholeheartedly state that I have come close to so many more near misses than I would have done had I been cruising past in the outside lane doing 10mph more. 
Having cars travelling at different speeds is critical to ensuring good lane discipline and anticipation.

My point is this: Â If everyone does the same fucking speed on the motorway (as the Police want).....no one overtakes - therefore, no one is anticipating what might happen ahead: concentration levels fall, drivers become less aware of what is around them as they perceive that nothing will happen (after all, you will still get fatal accidents at 60 mph) ......the key to driving is good anticipation....we all know that lorry drivers pull out with no warning, for example, therefore we expect it.

This is not the way our roads should be controlled - total bollocks it is.

Take the M25 near Heathrow for example. Â 
Most people know the SPECS cameras are there and as a result, keep strictly to 60 mph, not varying a jot.

Result - everyone is nose to tail! Â 
Cars haplessly drift from one lane to another, sit on your bumper, pull out when you don't expect them to.....I feel extremely nervous in this situation and have seen 2 accidents on this stretch of motorway as a direct result of this - I am sure this is not what the Police intended but it is the result.

When oh when will the Police realise this is HUMAN FUCKING NATURE - when we know we can't speed up, drivers seem to close the gap to the car in front....there are so many shite drivers out there and if the Police really are committed to reducing accidents on the motorways we should all have to pass a motorway driving examination and have to retake it again every 10 years.

This would make everyone aware of lane discipline and of good anticipation (whilst also raising money for the Police). In my opinion when these 2 facts are ignored that is when you have the recipe for an accident - not because someone is driving in the outside lane at 85mph.

And I challenge any Police officer to tell me different.....


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## Dubcat (Jun 10, 2002)

They have SPECS on the M25!?!?!?! Damn - I did not know that. I have been averaging 85mph from junction 8 - 14 every day for the last 4 years more or less 

SPECS are the average speed cameras right?

I wholeheartedly agree with you man - trying to drive slow - and at the same speed as every other tosser out there - is MUCH more dangerous than cruising past them at just a few mph more.

70mph was the speed set when cars had drum brakes all round - it's time they looked at speed limits again.


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## DXN (May 18, 2002)

Couldn't agree more Stu. The reason is partly to do with no motorway experience as a learner driver and when you pass the test just get on with it.
Would a second motorway test or at least including this in the test be a step in the right direction. The amount of retards who prat around in the lanes 2 or 3 with and empty lane 1 is just mind blowing.
Even coming up to them in the inside lanes indicating to the fast lane, passing and indicating back into the inside lane doesn't seem to phase them at all.
So frustrating.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

> They have SPECS on the M25!?!?!?! Â Damn - I did not know that. Â I have been averaging 85mph from junction 8 - 14 every day for the last 4 years more or less Â
> 
> SPECS are the average speed cameras right?
> 
> ...


I have heard about SPECS on the M25 too. They are between junctions 16 and 13 I believe. But in order to get the average speed you must have been going through all these exits to work out the average speed.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Totally agree Stu.

The law needs to change & the police need to look elsewhere for revenue opportunities.

Good flame mate 8)


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## Gren (Jul 25, 2002)

AFAIK there are no SPECS cameras on that stretch. I live nearby and drive there frequently. I'm always on the lookout for more cameras as they've now extended the matrix cameras up to the M40. Some have the ISDN cameras (masts on the side of the gantry) but never seen anything that looks like a SPECS camera.

Does Road Angel et. al. tell the difference betwen camera types and can anyone confirm they're on that stretch of road.

Gren


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## thorney (May 15, 2002)

Correct, no SPECS on M25....yet :

That section is covered by a range of radar and lazer activated cameras with digital picture feed.

Current wisdom suggests that when the speed is unregulated (ie national speed limit applies) they're set to go off at above 88mph and when the lower limits are applied than that limit +10mph. However they do get changed and different camaeras have different settings.

Back on topic, Stu I totaly agree. I have no problem with vans in villages, near schools, residential areas but when they put them on safe A roads and motorways its taking the piss.

The APCO guidelines for fixed camera position imply (I say imply cos so many councils seem to ignore them) that fixed cameras can only be fitted where there has been injury accidents in the past. The mobile vans seem to operate with complete impunity, no doubt brought about by the fact they're contracted out - so its just profit not safety we're talking about.


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## jgoodman00 (May 6, 2002)

Does anybody watch the Traffic cops program on BBC?

Last week, one of them was doing speed checks on one of Britains most dangerous roads. He was on a road bridge, crossing the road in question. He was in such a position so as to be hidden from view. He then caught a motorist <lorry driver I think> & prosecuted him. Now, this method of enforcement, meant he got the message to the one person he stopped. Had he parked on the bridge, in clear view EVERY SINGLE car would have checked the speed, & slowed down if necessary. That is many orders of magnitude more successful at making people slow down, but they dont do it


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## phil (May 7, 2002)

Best thing to do is not speed too much on motorways. Police set up traps on them because it's easy to catch people. If you want to speed, do it on little country lanes. Police aren't likely to wait all day on the offchance that somebody may be speeding. 
Likewise, don't speed on straight stretches of wide open road. Sitting target. Instead, do your most dangerous driving on twisty B roads. If there's nowhere for a police car to sit, then they won't get you. 
Basically, the more difficult it is to speed, due to hazards, undulations, bends etc, the less likely you are to get caught. 
OK, so you're more likely to cause an accident, but that's not the point of speed traps, is it?


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## jgoodman00 (May 6, 2002)

> Best thing to do is not speed too much on motorways. Police set up traps on them because it's easy to catch people. If you want to speed, do it on little country lanes. Police aren't likely to wait all day on the offchance that somebody may be speeding.
> Likewise, don't speed on straight stretches of wide open road. Sitting target. Instead, do your most dangerous driving on twisty B roads. If there's nowhere for a police car to sit, then they won't get you.
> Basically, the more difficult it is to speed, due to hazards, undulations, bends etc, the less likely you are to get caught.
> OK, so you're more likely to cause an accident, but that's not the point of speed traps, is it?


lmao. Class...


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

SPECS actually control the flow of traffic as well as detects high speeds and films live and sends data back instantly of certain vehicles that look suspect or from random ! This comes into its own in accidents and remember you would all be first to moan if you had lost a loved one in a high speed accident which is why it has to be controlled in the first place !


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## garvin (May 7, 2002)

The Traffic Cops programme is compulsive viewing, especially when PC Ged is on - what a little Hitler this guy is (he's the one that hid out of view and caught the truck driver speeding).

Last night he spotted a driver coming the opposite way talking on a hand held mobile phone - car was not driven erratically or anything like that. PC Ged spun his police car around, caught up and stopped said driver. The programme comentary explained, quite correctly, that talking on a mobile whilst driving was not, in itself, an offence ...... yet. However, PC Ged proceeded to give the 'errant' driver some advice (all well and good) and then went on to tell the 'offender' that he would deal with this via a non endorsable (no points on licence) Â£30 fine. PC Ged was very careful not to actually tell the driver thst he had commited an offence but just led him to believe he had (and the driver never asked just what offence had been commited) and 'conned' him out of Â£30. To cap it all, PC Ged did this whilst his police car was parked on the side of the road in a very dangerous position during rush hour.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't condone driving whilst talking on a hand held mobile phone but this was just staggering .......... so staggering that the programme comentary pointed out the dangerous position of the police car very pointedly. Are'nt our policeman wonderful !!


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

> Best thing to do is not speed too much on motorways. Police set up traps on them because it's easy to catch people. If you want to speed, do it on little country lanes. Police aren't likely to wait all day on the offchance that somebody may be speeding.
> Likewise, don't speed on straight stretches of wide open road. Sitting target. Instead, do your most dangerous driving on twisty B roads. If there's nowhere for a police car to sit, then they won't get you.
> Basically, the more difficult it is to speed, due to hazards, undulations, bends etc, the less likely you are to get caught.
> OK, so you're more likely to cause an accident, but that's not the point of speed traps, is it?


LOL!

Phil, I think if you want to indulge in any 'dangerous' driving, you should do it on a track ... on your own Â 

M4 driving is of particular interest to me now - not seen any cameras or vans on the bridges yet, are there any known 'blackspots' Â  to watch out for Â :-/
I will be buying a road angel ASAP.

... or any unmarked vehicles?? Not that I approve of speeding of course, along with 99% of the other traffic on the M4 :


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

> LOL!
> 
> Phil, I think if you want to indulge in any 'dangerous' driving, you should do it on a track ... on your own Â
> 
> ...


Anywhere between Oxford turn off (A34) and Bristol.

*Gren:*


> Does Road Angel et. al. tell the difference betwen camera types and can anyone confirm they're on that stretch of road.


Yes - my road angel says it is Avg speed ie: SPECS.


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

So - you think its ok to give it some on country lanes -yes but.. you have to be prepared for:
a: Families out for a walk
b) Kids learning to ride bikes
c) Farmers pissed up on Cider driving tractors and or Combine Harvesters.

And there will be more: of the first 3 c) is the most dangerous to your car and a) & b) most dangerous to your mental health and life.

Would you post 'having a great hoon down a Buckinghamshire lane and a 7 year old learning to ride his bike pulled out in front of me' - well it had better not be my kid.

Drive safe, drive fast where suitable and save the rest for a track day.


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## jgoodman00 (May 6, 2002)

I suspect he was not being entirely serious .


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## proeliator2001 (Feb 26, 2003)

Most compelling and best researched report on raising the motorway speed limit I have seen -
http://www.abd.org.uk/motorwayspeedlimit.htm

Wouldn't it be nice if this ever got adopted!


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## Guy (May 13, 2002)

> Most compelling and best researched report on raising the motorway speed limit I have seen -
> http://www.abd.org.uk/motorwayspeedlimit.htm
> 
> Wouldn't it be nice if this ever got adopted!


If this is best that is to be submitted it will fail!

It contains self-contradictions and some of the so-called facts are downright provable untruths (although common public perceptions). Whilst I would like it to succeed, the submission on the web will not. It is urgent need of attention from someone with more than a journalists ability to write.


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## phil (May 7, 2002)

> I suspect he was not being entirely serious .


Thank you. No, I wasn't being serious. My point was that speed traps and traffic cops are placed in places where it's easy to catch people speeding, rather than places where it's dangerous to speed.

I've never seen a speed camera outside a school.


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## proeliator2001 (Feb 26, 2003)

I love gatso`s most when they are placed in areas so thick with traffic you`re almost wishing you could be speeding past them rather than stuck in 12 mph tailbacks - noting smarts more than to be told to slow down when you`re on tickover in first gear :'(


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## jgray (May 8, 2002)

At the end of the day speed cameras and temporary spped traps whilst under the guise of raising safety levels and preventing accidents are revenue raising devices.

Hence most of the cameras now being Orange/Yellow i.e. Police revenue raising cameras, and as far as the police is concerned it is easy money My drive home takes me past 4 speed cameras, all in the middel of the country on dual carriage ways on straight roads. I agree with cameras being put in recognised accident hotspots but the cynical side of me says that placement is based on revenue potential.


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