# Some advice please



## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

I have had a small hesitance spot in the Cab for a while and as the car has now done just over 3000 miles I thought I would let Audi have a look at it so it was booked in for the day and the head techie came out with me and luckily it produced this for me almost imediately for him to see for himself, they looked at it that day and came to the conclusion that they would like to book it in agian for three days for a more thorough examination.

I have to say that this only occurs very, very occaisionaly - mainly when when pushing hard, backing off then pushing again, just a slight hesitance then it will pick up again and that's it - all over, then carry on as per normal, so nothing major, just more of a nuisance than anything else.

I'ts now in for the three days and I had a phone call from the dealer that everything is fine, no fault codes at all, all the blocks from the ecu are correct and all software/firmare are up to date.

Now comes the bit I didn't like. They said that it could be that if they (the dealer) couldn't trace the problem then Audi Germany will want to inspect the car in which case I will have to take the Milltek off as although the dealer is fine with it, Audi wouldn't be - understandable I suppose as any mods would be frowned upon by Audi disregarding if it effects the car or not.

I don't want to take the exhaust off and replace it with the stock item while the car is probably off the road again for another three days and then refit it, I just want my Cab back again and drive it, it's a truely breathtaking car and I miss it, so at the moment I'm thinking of just saying to the dealer to forget about it (unles they cure it of course within the next day) as I'm prepared to put up with this slight hesitancy which only happens now and again. If the symptom gets worse then I could go back again.

I have to say that the dealer is being 100% about this and is helping me as much as possible but what would you do?

Graham


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

..just possibly the Miltek is the problem? With emissions controls what they are these days, Audi will have mapped the car with the original fit exhaust fitted ie tuned it from end to end including gas flow and back pressure.

There is usually a trade off for that 'tuned noise' (irritating motorway drone to some :wink: ) maybe an occasional slight hesitancy is that trade off?


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

garyc said:


> ..just possibly the Miltek is the problem? With emissions controls what they are these days, Audi will have mapped the car with the original fit exhaust fitted ie tuned it from end to end including gas flow and back pressure.
> 
> There is usually a trade off for that 'tuned noise' (irritating motorway drone to some :wink: ) maybe an occasional slight hesitancy is that trade off?


Correct Gary and like you, this is what the dealer suggested almost word for word today but the hesitation was there before the Milltek was fitted. To be honest, in a way it would have been an easy option to swap out the exhaust again if the hesitation had appeared after the installation.

Graham


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

Couldn't you let them have it for 3 days with the Milltek on, on the understanding that if someone from Audi does have to come, the dealer swaps the Milltek before they arrive, or are they unwilling to do that?


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## DXN (May 18, 2002)

Graham, I think you two options

1) put the original exhaust back on (not too much work for an expensive car with an issue) and let audi do what they need to do (then swop it back  )

2) remap

:evil:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Graham,

thinking about this I am sure that in one of the mags long term test of RS4 (may have been Evo) a hesitancy was referred to. Fixed, as far as I a recall by a ecu refresh.

Any remapp may need Miltek factoring in to map?


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

garyc said:


> Graham,
> 
> thinking about this I am sure that in one of the mags long term test of RS4 (may have been Evo) a hesitancy was referred to. Fixed, as far as I a recall by a ecu refresh.
> 
> Any remapp may need Miltek factoring in to map?


Once again Gary, correct. :wink: 
There is an ecu upgrade (two now apparently) and I did question this with the dealer but they assured me that mine has the up-to-date software installed. This was for hesitancy on cold start-ups.

Interestingly - well kind of - the dealer told me that they had the car hooked up to their computer and Audi (Germany) were going into the software and electronics from Germany - clever init. 

Graham


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Crikey, correct twice. 

What about just insisting that Audi do the diagnostics with the Miltek in situ? It is after all TUV approved, and TUV compliance is a European std?

Or just call it part of cars' charactor. :!:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Graham,

IIRC & it was you who caused me to do the same :wink: you only have the Cat-Back system as i do, so i'd be very very surprised if the zorst was causing the problem, being that all the emission stuff is in front of the cats. Saying that the system could be faulty but you state the hesitation was their before :?

I guess a re-map may help & i need to ask is this when cold or at any temp?? I've never noticed any such thing either before or after the Miltel was fitted & given the timescales we followed, i'd guess both our systems were produced in the same batch.

Let us know how you get on. Perhaps it's a Cab thing :wink:


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

I'd absolutely remind them it was there pre-Milltek.

Ask them if Germany will stump up the cost of removing and replacing the Milltek when they find the problem to be not-the-Milltek....


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## NormStrm (Sep 6, 2003)

Love_iTT said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > Graham,
> ...


Hi Graham

May be worth pursuing what Gary has raised in that the ECU needs to be *reflashed* with the same code. If they have only plugged in and read the header info then that is not the same as a refresh/reflash of the code. Hopefully the dealer would oblige

HTH

Norman


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

I've just picked the car up after getting a phone call from the dealer saying that the car is showing a full bill of health, no fault codes and all measurements taken are 'normal'. I drove the car back to work trying to get the hesitation to occur but there was nothing, in fact it felt very smooth but that doesn't mean it has gone because this was the problem - it is very intermitant. All I can do I think is keep an eye on it, if it seems to be getting worse at all then I will swap the exhaust over and take it back and let them sort it out until it's solved.

I know and the dealer knows it's not down to the exhaust because it was there pre Milltek but of course the dealer has to take Audi's standpoint for mods etc which I can understand. I'm not too bothered about this at the moment because it just doesn't happen that often to worry about so I'm prepared to leave at that for now.

Graham


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

Well, I've had the car back now for a couple of days and have done a fair bit of driving, obviously trying to induce/replicate the stutter but to date - zippo - in fact if anything, it's pulling better than ever.

I'm not totally sure of everything they have done but whatever it was seems to have now been rectified and even improved it, 2nd and 3rd gears are now manic rather than just quick, a definate improvement as well as curing the original fault.

Excellent result [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Graham


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Good to hear that Graham. 

By coincidence. I have the use of an RS4 saloon for the weekend. So looking forward to puting it through it's paces in between chores and rugby etc. Will be interesting to make comparisons with my previous B5 RS4.

It's sat outside now...so....


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

garyc said:


> Good to hear that Graham.
> 
> By coincidence. I have the use of an RS4 saloon for the weekend. So looking forward to puting it through it's paces in between chores and rugby etc. Will be interesting to make comparisons with my previous B5 RS4.
> 
> It's sat outside now...so....


Get off that bloody keyboard then :wink: Let me know how you get on, good, bad or indifferent.

Graham


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

My RS4 drive.

Nice. Very nice. Car was phantom black, which is pearelscent and looks very deep in colour when clean. Almost looks to be base black. Good paint.

Interior typical A4 but with recaros and slightly diff instrumentation illumination.

Nice start up sound and good V8 waffle. Obviously I hit the sport buttion straight away. It seems a bit pointless tbh.

Only thing i really didnt like about the car was the flat bottomed steering wheel - not the shape, but the fact that the bottom part is very cheap plastic and not alloy. As you are costantly in touch with it, one keeps on tappy tap tapping on it. A tactile let down.

Steering itself is better than last A4 I drove (3.0Q) but still a little bit vague/removed from what is happening under front tyres. But we are talking small degrees of comparison to BMW rwd steering quality. Whole car very tractable and drive train very smooth at low/middling revs and when pottering around. Ride on the 19" rims is far better than s line cars on 18s and whole car has that Audi hewn from on piece feel to it.

When one gives it the beans it deosnt feel as fast as one expects, expecially compared to my previous B5. That, I know is a n/a engine trait. Car just picks up and accelerates harder and harder to the red line. I hit 8krpm limiter once (and was travelling very fast indeed :wink: ) in third. The car is not as noisy as i thought it would be - the recent AMV8 sounded louder at revs, and was probably very close in performance.

Brakes were good and meaty - and although i didn't go hard or long enough to tax them to fade - but they scrub off speed very well on the road and the whole car is very stable under hardish braking.

There was too much grip avialable for the conditions, so I couldn't really test the front end grip and the 40:60 torque split and throttle adjustablity, although I did get the ESP flashing when planting just before apex of a couple of 2ng gear roundabouts. Feels like it gives oodles of driver confidence though - thats an M car trait and a credit to Audi gmbh.

The engine is superb, if you can live with 10mpg that I had showing after a spirited run:wink: (mate reckons 300 miles range on semi legal cruise) , and much better suited to car than the turbo lump was.

It's a beautifully put together and resolved package, if a little inert compared to a rwd BMW. But I do sense there are a number of depths to the car that more miles at wheel would reveal. Would I want one? You bet!! A 07 Avant with <1000 miles and for Â£43k would make sense and i would be happy to own one (back to back with new M3 would be great. Audi for the winter, M3 for summer.)

A very positive review for the RS4. 

Later on sat night after a few scoops post rugby (OK I was plastered), was chatting with another mate, who had recently been to France and back in a group with 2 AUK RS4s and 2 new S5s (our other joint mate works for AUK, hence the deals etc). He reckoned that the S5 is not a patch on the RS4 to drive, but, racing away from the peages, they are closer than you might imagine on out and out sprinting performance.

(The jammy gits are also all off to Paris next weekend to watch a game of Rugger :x )


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> My RS4 drive.
> 
> Nice. Very nice. Car was phantom black, which is pearelscent and looks very deep in colour when clean. Almost looks to be base black. Good paint.
> 
> ...


Nice review Gary & the only 2 points i'd disagree with are the steering & the flat bottomed wheel. While the wheel is not to everyones taste (i love it), i'm glad it's not metal as it would be very cold in the winter & as you say, it ends up being grabbed quite often. I also prefer the Bucket Seats over the Recaros, as they kinda complete the package.

The steering itself & i use track conditions as the bench mark, feels much more direct that i experienced on the M5 & tbh it's the one trait that the press have overly raved about, saying it's still better than the new M3, which is a real winner for Audi who up until the RS4 were renowned for not having a good steering set-up of frontal balance.

Not had a head to head with an S5, but even my mfctr stats i think their's only about 3/4 sec in it from 0-60, so a better S5 launch would close that margin. It also takes practice to get a 4K launch in the RS4 honed, but once done i've seen 4.2 sec 0-60 times recorded so very sharp for a 4dr family saloon.

Glad you enjoyed it though.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

....was only talking mere degrees of difference Paul and I havent driven e92 M3, so I am talking e46 (which is still a pretty good benchmark for good steering).

Like I said, (and unusually for recent Audis) I sense its a car with a few layers and more to give than the immediacy of a brief drive avails, and niether was I in my own car, nor on the road conditions to really push it safely, so my views are limited by experience.

I like to get on track with fast sweepers and esp off in the RS4 tho. There's too much grip to do it safely on public roads. But you can always find some slow med speed roundabouts. Whole car fely very compliant but also tied down, which is a great combo.

Take off from low revs were very good, but i neither dragged the clutch nore dumped the clutch, as it wasn't my car, so could really launch it.
Ben, my mate specifically didnt want the wing back seats, and the elctric recaros are instantly comfy, and easy to get in and out of in suits etc, which I think was a consideration.

Nice package tho. Would still be Avant for me.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> ....was only talking mere degrees of difference Paul and I havent driven e92 M3, so I am talking e46 (which is still a pretty good benchmark for good steering).
> 
> Like I said, (and unusually for recent Audis) I sense its a car with a few layers and more to give than the immediacy of a brief drive avails, and niether was I in my own car, nor on the road conditions to really push it safely, so my views are limited by experience.
> 
> ...


TBH Gary, i think the E46 is still the benchmark where steering is concerned as the E92 appears to have gone backwards.

Is that Layers like onions aka Shrek :lol: I do know what you mean however. You know you want one so get one bought :wink:


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

Good and informative write-up Gary, glad you liked it. :wink:

I'm sure you know anyway but I'll just mention it for anyone else interested.

Steering wheel: There is a choice of a multifunction steering wheel (round) or the RS4 flat bottomed wheel, I chose the flat bottom wheel purely due to the fact that I preferred it over the MFSW and that I didn't want the bluetooth prep offered by Audi - you get either a phone mount on the dash or in the front centre armrest - I wanted neither and opted for a bluetooth retro fit with no phone mount which to me is a neater solution.

Seats: I would have preferred the buckets but as they do not fold forward then they make it impractible for the Cabriolet so I opted for the electric Recaros instead, very comfortable and supportive so I'm happy.

I must admit, I didn't think you were going to like it but even more supprising was that I was actually saying to myself the other day that I quite liked the look of the GT2 after many years hating anything Porsche, I still can't think like that about the BMW brand though. :?

Graham


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

Latest update.

A few weeks back I had the EPC light come up on the dash cluster, no loss of power and went off once I had turned the ignition off and then back on again. I did obviously contact the dealer for them to have a look at it. I managed to get Clived to do a VagCom thingy on it and it threw up a fault code of manifold flap stuck open on bank 1, the fault code was not cleared so the the dealer could see it with their equipment.

It went in to the dealer yesterday and it was booked in for two days with a proviso that it may stretch for more than that if extra time was required. I had a phone call this morning to say that the manifold motor potentiometer was at fault and had been replaced and all is well for me to pick it up which I duly did.

It's strange how you get used to something or even accept that this is the way things should be because I always thought that it was a bit jerky in changing gear - it was very difficult to get a smooth change no matter what speed I was doing or what gear - but I just accepted that this was the norm. Again, nothing which I couldn't put up with but nevertheless not something that made the driving experiance as good as what it should be.

I'm glad to say that the difference is now amazing, it's like driving a different car and I guess this fault must have been part of the initial 'jerkyness' and overtime gradualy became worse until the potentiometer failed.

Now that is only half of the story.

The reason being that Audi contacted me and asked me if I would be willing to use this fault for use by them to make a 'Fly on the wall' documentry which will be shown on the Audi Channel on Sky at a later date. The documentry will be showing the typical way a fault is diagnosed and repaired using an Audi Master Technician of which there are only 8 in the country and the dealer I use (Vindis Audi - Huntingdon) have one of them, Nathen.

The whole process was filmed from the start of me arriving and being booked in, to the end by me collecting the car once it had been repaired and driving off. This also included a small amount of in-car footage of me and Nathen driving the car to establish the problem. What, if any of this footage they will use I don't know but it was a great experiance anyway. I hate my photo being taken at the best of times, to say that the camera doesn't like me is an understatement and I only hope that they use as little of the footage of me the better, but at least the car makes up for it in the looks departmant, well in my opinion it does.

Vindis Audi never seem to amaze me with the way they treat me, I have not had many reasons to complain over the 6 or so years I've been dealing with them and it's just a shame some other dealers can't take a leaf out of their book with customer service from I read on here sometimes.

And the Milltek? No problem. They removed it and refitted the stock exhaust while it was being diagnosed and the Milltek will be refitted again on Saturday as long as I don't find any of the problem ocurring again, and all this done free of charge.

My courtesy car for the duration of this was a brand new red 2.0 TT DSG Roadster. Mmmm, bought back a few great memories but I still couldn't wait to get back into my RS4 Cab though :wink:

Graham


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Hurrah! Glad it's sorted Graham 

Do they need some footage of you and I in the car-park reading the fault code? ;-)


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

clived said:


> Hurrah! Glad it's sorted Graham
> 
> Do they need some footage of you and I in the car-park reading the fault code? ;-)


 :lol: :lol: A bit dark me thinks Clive. :wink: Thanks for doing that though, I think they were suitably impressed when I gave them the print-out.

Graham


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Can I have your autograph?

Glad it's sorted.


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

garyc said:


> Can I have your autograph?
> 
> Glad it's sorted.


I will get my agent to send you one Gary. :wink:

I'm going to give it a few days before I will say that it's been sorted, thats why I didn't want the Milltek fitted back on until I'm 100% sure. It's looking good so far though.

Graham


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Glad it's all sorted.

I had a similar code a while back (was defo a manifold bank 1 error code), however once it was cleared about 2 months back, it's never returned :?


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