# Am I an Immature driver



## RickyTT (Nov 8, 2007)

i think I already know the answer to this :roll: , but wondered if anyone else is the same.

i can't stand people trying to get 1 up on me by undertaking other people or pushing in through filter lanes, and I'll always do my best to prevent them from getting in. the reason I ask is that my mates of similar age (24) give me a hard time about it. What do people think?


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

i agree with you mate, im 34 , and yes wen i see people fucking about undercutting just to gain a space then i close any gaps and they can F right off


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## RickyTT (Nov 8, 2007)

Good to hear someone older is still the same. I'll just tell my mates to shutup then


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

:lol: exactly, even more annoying wen people let these muppets in :evil:


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

You're not the sort of blokes who close the gap when people are trying to filter in from the right, are you?


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

god no, they piss me off to, why cant people understand that filtering is so much easier wen its one at a time, from left and right, the typeof people that think filtering is about the left lane havin dominance and the right has to sit and be lucky need a jolly good clip round the ears :evil:


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## denTTed (Feb 21, 2007)

I agree, but won't move to the left a mile before the lane closes just to bagsey meself a space, the lane is open, use it.


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

definatly mate, really piss's me off when people dont understand the "filter" concept :evil:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

RickyTT said:


> i think I already know the answer to this :roll: , but wondered if anyone else is the same.
> 
> i can't stand people trying to get 1 up on me by undertaking other people or pushing in through filter lanes, and I'll always do my best to prevent them from getting in. the reason I ask is that my mates of similar age (24) give me a hard time about it. What do people think?


Try it with Company Car Man in car-he-hates, or White Van Man. You will come off worse.

Let 'em rush on - it's makes so little difference in the bigger scheme of things.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Such things are bloody annoying but take care how you react to them.

If I'm in the offside lane on the motorway patiently waiting for the traffic ahead to get past the two side-by-side lorries in the other lanes it is irritating when someone decides he's going to come along lane two inside everybody and then cut into the queue once he gets to the lorry. I will slowly close up the gap between me and the car in front to ensure they don't cut in.

That's fair enough, because closing the gap is probably still safer than having the idiot barge in. However, it does concern me when I see people swinging over to block lanes or darting into a space that someone else is also charging for in order to block them. This sort of thing is always liable to cause an accident and on motorways that can be catastrophic.

Other driver's habits can be annoying, but it's not our place to police the roads. Two wrongs don't make a right so let's not compound one bit of bad driving by doing another. Sure, be assertive to a degree and these people may soon learn that their aggressive driving isn't necessarily going to get them anywhere - but just take care how far you take it. It's often far safer for everybody in the vicinity to just let these tossers get on with it and get as far away from you as possible.


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## Lock_Stock (May 22, 2007)

RickyTT said:


> i think I already know the answer to this :roll: , but wondered if anyone else is the same.
> 
> i can't stand people trying to get 1 up on me by undertaking other people or pushing in through filter lanes, and I'll always do my best to prevent them from getting in. the reason I ask is that my mates of similar age (24) give me a hard time about it. What do people think?


Does my nut too, and I really want to block, but no way I'm risking my car. The kind of people who drive like this are the same kind of people who will bump you and drive off.


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

then folow them, drag them out the car , and bump thier snout and drive off 

seriously tho, im ex white van man myself from 8 years driving in london, you do become very aggressive, i am probably more so now than then, but i dont risk anyone elses safety other than that of the muppet who takes liberties :wink:


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## Lock_Stock (May 22, 2007)

luciferlee said:


> then folow them, drag them out the car , and bump thier snout and drive off
> 
> seriously tho, im ex white van man myself from 8 years driving in london, you do become very aggressive, i am probably more so now than then, but i dont risk anyone elses safety other than that of the muppet who takes liberties :wink:


Don't get me wrong. I'm not holier than thou, and have indulged in a little road rage on occasion, usually after being cut up for no reason or nearly hit by someone using a mobile phone but I just think it best not to push my luck.

The classic I see is. Guy cuts in at last minute on exit. holds everyone up doing 40 in a 60, then when we enter a 30 is doing about 45.....


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

More 'roid rage than road rage - so it seems. :wink:


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

i know matey, to be honest i cant go a day without at least a few rages on the orad, and it not just down to my temper, its down to so many knobs that cant read the road or try stupid stunts etc :evil:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

I think it just gets to a stage, when it isn't worth it. Logic and emotion may take separate routes but:

- if you have the time to stop and remonstrate, you had time to let the tossers go in the first place

- if you drive high mileages - you will never get anywhere, since the other road users will be constantly p1ss you off, several times an hour day in day out. Relentlessly.

- If you are proud of your car and lock horns with someone who couldnt care less about theirs, you will come off worse.

- If, as Mark D mentions, you take law into your own hands - getting physical, or wild responses in your car, you will be the one in trouble with the law.

So you can't really win. All you can do is increase your own stress levels by reacting.


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

garyc said:


> I think it just gets to a stage, when it isn't worth it. Logic and emotion may take separate routes but:
> 
> - if you have the time to stop and remonstrate, you had time to let the tossers go in the first place
> 
> ...


very good points and i totally agree, but the problem also lays, as does with me, my temprement, which as my other half says, calm down  
so i know where yr comin from and admit myself i could do with chilling out etc, but seems the older i get the more it winds me up when people take libities etc :?


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

,,,maybe you are turning into Victor Meldrew. :wink:


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

I think he needs a session with Dr Melfi :wink:


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

garyc said:


> ,,,maybe you are turning into Victor Meldrew. :wink:


HMmmmmmmmmmm


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Don't get me wrong - you should hear me screaming at people in my car! Poor and (even worse) ignorant and inconsiderate driving wind me up no end. However I never let it force me to drop my own standards of safe driving - as I say, that just compounds the issue.

I wouldn't be tempted to force a confrontation - but then I do have the advantage of the option of showing the warrant card, stopping someone and giving them a bloody good dressing down. That can be hugely satisfying when you see some arrogant toss-pot of a road bully reduced to desperate, apologetic pleading - however I only do it very rarely and only when someone's driving has been so bad that I'd seriously consider a prosecution for dangerous driving. Otherwise it just isn't wort it - you'd never get anywhere if you pulled every bloody idoit doing something daft. You'd be stopping every half mile!


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## Lock_Stock (May 22, 2007)

Mark Davies said:


> Don't get me wrong - you should hear me screaming at people in my car! Poor and (even worse) ignorant and inconsiderate driving wind me up no end. However I never let it force me to drop my own standards of safe driving - as I say, that just compounds the issue.
> 
> I wouldn't be tempted to force a confrontation - but then I do have the advantage of the option of showing the warrant card, stopping someone and giving them a bloody good dressing down. That can be hugely satisfying when you see some arrogant toss-pot of a road bully reduced to desperate, apologetic pleading - however I only do it very rarely and only when someone's driving has been so bad that I'd seriously consider a prosecution for dangerous driving. Otherwise it just isn't wort it - you'd never get anywhere if you pulled every bloody idoit doing something daft. You'd be stopping every half mile!


If you falsh your warrant card and have to talk to a driver (if you are technically off duty). Do you have to write a report nowadays. thinking about this absolute joke where Police have to write a report for stop and search, stop and talk, stop and look at someone... stop and..... well you get the idea.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Lock_Stock said:


> If you falsh your warrant card and have to talk to a driver (if you are technically off duty). Do you have to write a report nowadays.


No, and not on duty either. If I stop you and ask you to account for what you are doing and why you are where you are then I do have to fill in a ridiculous form - but not if I'm just giving you a bollocking.


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## KentishTT (Jun 28, 2007)

Had a prick in a touran overtake me in slow moving traffic to get one space ahead the other day - well there wasn't actually a space until this prick pushed his way around and forced himself in.

After a stupid manouvre like that I find sitting close on their rear outer quarter makes them all anxious - you see their head flicking back and forth to the mirror (not whilst moving at speed of course) :lol:


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## TTonyTT (Apr 24, 2006)

Mark Davies said:


> If I stop you and ask you to account for what you are doing and why you are where you are then I do have to fill in a ridiculous form - but not if I'm just giving you a bollocking.


 :lol:

So, stopping someone and asking them some questions to establish what they were doing to ascertain whether a bollocking is appropriate or not, leads to you spending the next 3 hours filling in forms.

Alternatively, just give them the bollocking, and save yourself 3 hours.

Mmmmmm

:wink:

Just teasing ... I'd prefer my tax money went on policing rather than administrating.


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## Wild Woods (Feb 25, 2008)

RickyTT said:


> i think I already know the answer to this :roll: , but wondered if anyone else is the same.
> 
> i can't stand people trying to get 1 up on me by undertaking other people or pushing in through filter lanes, and I'll always do my best to prevent them from getting in. the reason I ask is that my mates of similar age (24) give me a hard time about it. What do people think?


I'm over 40 and the only thing that stops me closing the gap or running them of the road is the thought of damaging my pride and joy.

A few years ago when I was running around in a Â£400 Polo it was a different matter when I'd happily run them into the bollards at road works!! :evil:


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## Lock_Stock (May 22, 2007)

TTonyTT said:


> Just teasing ... I'd prefer my tax money went on policing rather than administrating.


I agree the Police should spend less time administrating and more time Administering :wink:


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## luciferlee (Aug 3, 2005)

Wild Woods said:


> RickyTT said:
> 
> 
> > i think I already know the answer to this :roll: , but wondered if anyone else is the same.
> ...


i have often thought of buying a cheapy motor just for that pleasure, and believe me , it WOULD be a pleasure :wink:


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## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

I do experience drivers doing really annoying things to me on the road
but I almost NEVER get wound up by them ...... I just try to work out how to (safely :roll: ) raise their blood pressure.
I find that blowing a kiss followed by a big smile to another male driver works a treat.


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## Guy (May 13, 2002)

Mark Davies Posted: 13 Mar 2008 16:16 


> but then I do have the advantage of the option of showing the warrant card, stopping someone


Well, please tell us all, what authority do you have to stop a car when off duty?



> That can be hugely satisfying when you see some arrogant toss-pot of a road bully reduced to desperate, apologetic pleading


It's just as satisfying as when you're in front of the DPS and you have to make a face to face apology to the punter for your actions isn't it?


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Guy said:


> Mark Davies Posted: 13 Mar 2008 16:16
> 
> 
> > but then I do have the advantage of the option of showing the warrant card, stopping someone
> ...


Ah, Guy - that's two threads so far today that you've had a pop at me on. What's up - has someone given you a ticket and you feel the need to let-off somewhere?

To answer your questions, I have exactly the same authority whether on duty or off - it makes no difference. Indeed, in theory, we are never actually 'off duty'. When you're not in a marked car nor in uniform there are practical issues with getting a car stopped of course, but it's usually a matter of pulling alongside when the car is stationary and showing the card. Once an officer has identified themselves to you like this you'd be breaking the law not to comply with their instructions - regardless of if they are in uniform or not.

As for the DPS, dealing with bad driving or any other offence is my job. At times that involves advising people or, in certain cases, giving them a bollocking. If I'm doing my job then why on earth would the DPS be interested? It's what they are paying me for! I've never been required to apologise to anybody for going about my duties.

You've obviously got an axe to grind but you're just making yourself look foolish.


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

Since having had some crazed person (who I am now convinced was out of their head on drugs) and flag me down with frighnening results (for me) then I have vowed NEVER to stop, slow down or pull over for anyone ever again in an unmarked car. I have the upmost respect for Police and what they do in these hard times but even if you showed me your warrent card through the window of your car I would not take any notice - from that kind of distance it could be a library ticket for all I know.

Follow me to the nearest police station is what I would inist on now and then you can sort me out there - not on the roadside by someone who I haven't got a clue who they are.

This is not a pop at the Police or you in any way Mark, it's just that the last experiance was so frightening that I vowed that I would never let myself (nor my wife) get into that position again.

Graham


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Love_iTT said:


> Follow me to the nearest police station is what I would inist on now and then you can sort me out there - not on the roadside by someone who I haven't got a clue who they are.


I think you're making an assumption that we'd have a problem with that - we don't. Indeed, the official advice is if you are not certain who it is trying to stop you then do exactly what you suggest.

We are human beings, you know. What's more we tend to know far more about the sort of dodgy goings-on that you've experienced than most. We do understand the concerns and are perfectly prepared to be flexible. I get weary of this constant assumption that we're all power crazed, inflexible monsters intent on causing people misery - we're actually in the job to *help* people.

If, from the safety of your locked car, you were to say you're not sure who I was and wanted to go to the nearest police station then I'd be perfectly happy to do that and give you directions. However, if you were to just go speeding off, then that would be a quite different matter.


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

Mark Davies said:


> ...I think you're making an assumption that we'd have a problem with that - we don't. Indeed, the official advice is if you are not certain who it is trying to stop you then do exactly what you suggest..


You're absolutely correct - I had assumed that.



Mark Davies said:


> ...We are human beings, you know. What's more we tend to know far more about the sort of dodgy goings-on that you've experienced than most. We do understand the concerns and are perfectly prepared to be flexible. I get weary of this constant assumption that we're all power crazed, inflexible monsters intent on causing people misery - we're actually in the job to *help* people...


I know you are human beings Mark, that's why I said that I wasn't having a pop at you or the Police in general and that I have the upmost regard for the work you do, I really am not critisising you or the Police in any way or form.



Mark Davies said:


> ...If, from the safety of your locked car, you were to say you're not sure who I was and wanted to go to the nearest police station then I'd be perfectly happy to do that and give you directions. ...


That's excellent, just what I wanted to hear.



Mark Davies said:


> ...However, if you were to just go speeding off, then that would be a quite different matter


And then you go and spoil it by saying that! Was there any need to have said that?

From my response to your post, do you really think that is what I would do? - Thanks. :?

Graham


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## denTTed (Feb 21, 2007)

I had a complaint about an off duty police officer, as it happens the old bill have got me out of the crap a lot of times as I do a highly confrontational job and do somewhat rely on them.

Let me set the scene, I was filling up with fuel, I had been previously made redundant 8 months ago, holding a part time job down, 6 months behind on my mortgage, the same year I was married and my wife had just fallen pregnant. My priorities were that we were fed and warm in our house. These priorities were upheld by the inspector handling the complaint. My tax had not been paid and was one month out of date.

A young spunky off duty officer decided it was the best course of action to point this out at the top of his voice in the petrol station. I pointed out I was aware of that, he then got quite aggressive about my apparent lack of concern (quite frankly it was right down on my list). To the point of grabbing me, so I threw him to the ground I pointed out that if he had a problem to speak to me civilly, if he also wanted to discuss my tax then allow me to discuss it with him in private, an option he did not seem to be able to select due to the lack of a police vehicle, and I was not sitting in the back of his fiesta. He got up and got in his car and drove off, refusing to give me his number. He was traced via his reg number.

Again I have no issue with the police, albeit I think our govt is influencing there priorities and I am sure 99% of officers would rather be hunting down real criminals rather than motorists. This young officer behaved disgracefully and showed how dangerous a warrant card can be in the wrong hands.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Graham, the point about people just speeding off wasn't directed at you. It was included in the interest of a comprehensive response.

Just making clear to other readers that if an officer asked them to stop and all they did was drive off then later claiming they were actually just making their way to a police station because they were concerned the officer wasn't who he said he was won't have quite the same credibility as someone who explained themselves in the first place and asked to be followed to the local nick.

There was no suggestion that you personally would do it - the 'you' in the post being the reader in general. Hope that clears it up.

Johnson, sorry about your experience. Like in every walk of life there are toss-pot cops whose new-found authority goes to their heads. It would be fair to say that 99% of officers really wouldn't give a toss if they saw an out of date VEL disc when out and about in their own time. We're not tax collectors, after all. I trust from your post that the matter was dealt with to your satisfaction and the young whelp was suitably admonished for his unacceptable behaviour.


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## Guy (May 13, 2002)

> Ah, Guy - that's two threads so far today that you've had a pop at me on. What's up - has someone given you a ticket and you feel the need to let-off somewhere?
> 
> To answer your questions, I have exactly the same authority whether on duty or off - it makes no difference. Indeed, in theory, we are never actually 'off duty'.
> 
> You've obviously got an axe to grind but you're just making yourself look foolish.


Mark, may I suggest before you continue giving yourself powers you do not possess and continue to lie about what authorities you can and can't use that you actually get a law book out and read what it says about what you can and can't do. Baker and Wilkies Road Traffic is a good one for your rank and apparent level of knowledge. Read it, digest it and learn from it. Speak with some older traffic men (*if* they will speak to you) instead of other section lads and learn, for Christ sake lad, learn. Then go back to these posts read them and see if *you* are one of those ....


> toss-pot cops whose new-found authority goes to their heads


The only axe I have to grind is against jumped up little squirts in the Police Force who try to be Hitlers and tin pot gods. You may or may not recognise this as a category for yourself.

But please, and I am being very serious about this, learn what you can and can't do, get a few driving courses under your belt and then come back. Until then, keep you head down and your mouth shut because the way you are going you'll be speaking to the 'Y'. That last sentence alone should be shouting out to you. Think on lad, think on.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Guy, I don't know who are or what you think you know (except that GMP's complaints department is called the 'Y' - so what?) - but clearly you haven't the first idea of who I am and are making some widely inaccurate assumptions - so I'll put you straight.

I'm not some young whipper-snapper of a cop whom you can frighten by the mere mention of 'the Y'. I'm nearly 40 years old (so less of the 'lad' please - no need to let a debate degenerate into patronising name calling) and have been a police officer for 14 years. I spent the first 12 years working one of the busiest policing divisions in the country, both in uniform in various capacities and in CID as a trained detective, and have seen and dealt with pretty much everything policing can throw at you. I'm a qualified tutor and so have been involved with training police officers. I have a very broad skills-set including advanced driving, surveillance and firearms and currently work in counter-terrorism where I've been for the last 2 years. Sure, I've never been in traffic because that's not really my thing - but that doesn't make me ignorant of traffic law by any means. In short, I'm about as qualified and experienced as police constables ever get. I don't say this out of any kind of arrogance - just to correct your obvious assumptions about me.

So, having established my credentials and got your patronising (and insulting) attitude out of the way . . .

You're obviously suggesting that I'm incorrect in saying an off duty officer out of uniform has the power to require a motorist to stop. However,



Road Traffic Act 1988 said:


> *s.35 - Drivers to comply with traffic directions *
> 
> (1) Where a constable is for the time being engaged in the regulation of traffic in a road, a person driving or propelling a vehicle who neglects or refusesâ€"
> 
> ...


The Act specifies no requirement to be in uniform and 'the execution of his duty' has nothing whatsoever to do with whether an officer is on scheduled shifts or not.

Therefore, a police officer (whether 'off duty' or not) who sees someone committing a traffic offence and chooses to deal with it is engaged in 'the regulation of traffic' (the exact meaning of that term is unspecified and so can have a broad application) and therefore if that police officer adequately identifies himself as such and you fail to comply with his directions you are committing an offence.

*THAT* is the power - s.35(1) Road Traffic Act 1988.

It's designed for directing traffic rather than specifically stopping cars, but any police officer who knows their job will tell you that there are often many pieces of legislation that can effectively be used to achieve what you need to do. I only explain it in detail for those looking on. Unlike you've done about me I'm not going to assume you're an idiot and I'll credit you with some legal knowledge, but it appears this is a bit of little used legislation that you've over-looked. It's easily done.

I hope that settles it and we can put an end to a pointless argument.


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## GhosTTy (Oct 10, 2007)

Well said Mark. I'm completely behind the police for the great work they do. I should imagine that some of the pointless money-making schemes used on the motorists today are equally as frustrating to you and your colleagues as they are to us.


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