# TT RS APR Exhaust and Stage II



## coopsrs1 (Jul 13, 2013)

Hi Guys,

Im about to purchase an APR exhaust and ECU upgrade here in Bahrain. They are quoting 430 BHP and 464 lb/ft torque. Is this realistic and how much difference have people felt? Is it worth it?
I have a stock 2011 Roadster, 355 BHP varient with Carbon door mirrors and 19" titaniums.
The system sounds nice... Heres the link

http://www.goapr.com/products/apr_exhau ... 5tfsi.html

All views and opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Chris


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## TondyRSuzuka (Dec 3, 2011)

Popping RSC on my RS next week. See how it fairs with the stage 2 map.

You should run good figures, temperature out there will reduce your potential peak figures, but a good front mount intercooler should eliminate a good amount of the heat soak.

Will be interested to hear how you get on, how you find the map, exhaust and what your Dyno figures look like.


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## coopsrs1 (Jul 13, 2013)

Yeah, the humidity is a killer. The guy has suggested an intercooler first if i cant afford all at once... which I cant but it seems to make sense what he says.

Im limited to options over hear APR are the only tuners and dealers of performance parts. But from what he says its a good product and works well on the RS.

So intercooler first? What do you think?

Lets see!


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## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

In Bahrain you could do with putting your intercooler in the freezer every night


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## robokn (Feb 21, 2006)

Would meth not help in those conditions?


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## SuperRS (Mar 7, 2012)

Do the remap first, intercooler second, exhaust third.


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## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

robokn said:


> Would meth not help in those conditions?


My next thought


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## SuperRS (Mar 7, 2012)

A good intercooler negates the need of methanol in a road car


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

SuperRS said:


> A good intercooler negates the need of methanol in a road car


I hear what you are saying but an intercooler doesn't give you any additional octane. I would like to run a better cooler than my forge unit but I wouldn't ditch my meth kit .


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## SuperRS (Mar 7, 2012)

Extra octane is only beneficial if you tune for it though, but you run the added risk of killin your engine should the system fail.


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## coopsrs1 (Jul 13, 2013)

SuperRS said:


> A good intercooler negates the need of methanol in a road car


Ok, but what is meth? Temperatures hit 50 and humidity is always high so never any cold dense air. What is meth? Are we talking about methylated spirits?! Where would that go?!

What about induction kits, is there a good one out there that will draw in super cool air?

Thanks for your help.

By the way, are APR known to do good re-maps? Ive read so many different things on here! Cheers!


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## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

coopsrs1 said:


> SuperRS said:
> 
> 
> > A good intercooler negates the need of methanol in a road car
> ...


Meth is water/methanol injection, usually 50/50 mix and is sprayed into the intake after the intercooler and pre throttle body I believe. It's a pretty complex mod, but might be worthwhile looking into given your location.

The problem with induction kits, cold air feeds and even an uprated intercooler is that their effectiveness is limited given such high ambient temps. There is just no cold air to draw in.


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## coopsrs1 (Jul 13, 2013)

Ok great, thanks for your help, Ive just paid 560 Euros for a APS stage 2 remap and dyno run. He took me out in one of their show cars, a 550 BHP VW GTI, really impressive.

Ill let you know how it goes, seems too cheap to be true but thats the advantage of 3% sales tax I guess!

APS carbon fibre induction kit is on its way from the US too.

They told me they have just tuned a 2013 RS to 700 BHP owened by a sheihk with the same block rods and pistons.... hmmm?!


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## TondyRSuzuka (Dec 3, 2011)

APS or APR?

For a minute I thought we were talking about Chrystal Meth... Wonder if this maybe APRs stage 4?


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

Tondy
are you running the latest version of APR's stage 2 ?
If so,what do you think ?
Should be in the UK weak after next,so might pop in and try an APR map again, now the problems from a year ago seem to be fixed.
Want to pick up the new cooler if possible anyway.


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## TondyRSuzuka (Dec 3, 2011)

jaybyme said:


> Tondy
> are you running the latest version of APR's stage 2 ?
> If so,what do you think ?
> Should be in the UK weak after next,so might pop in and try an APR map again, now the problems from a year ago seem to be fixed.
> Want to pick up the new cooler if possible anyway.


Jaybyme

Can you pm me your Facebook or email contacts.

Thanks


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## billyali86 (Jul 26, 2011)

Brad, if you don't mind could you PM your thoughts also. Looking to get this done in the next couple of weeks


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## TondyRSuzuka (Dec 3, 2011)

Well I can't really make any valid comments on the improvement of the map just yet as my S-Tronic is down on power for some reason. However a friend has had the reflash update on his manual RS and no issues, increase in torque as expected from APRs details on their website. Peak figures nowhere near what they advertise however we have high air temps with this weather.

My issue is undiagnosed at the moment. APR think it's my forge intercooler but I'm sceptical. APR are looking into it and myself and awesome are trying to work with them, however with no APR staff on the uk at the moment interest in this problem and urgency to get it resolved seems to be lacking.

Frustrated... However awesome are going over and above their responsibilities by spending time with my car trying to get to the bottom of it.


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## SuperRS (Mar 7, 2012)

Why not go back to the old map.

The calibrator from the states is coming over from the US soon and I suspect they will probably be looking at your car.


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

TondyTT said:


> jaybyme said:
> 
> 
> > Tondy
> ...


done


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

The Siemoneit racing map that I have on the car now works well,so I would have to be 100 % sure about the new APR map before having it on my car this time.
If you think about it,German tuners have had over 2yrs of testing and developing maps for the stronic,and many still have problems.
Looks like I'll be driving to the UK on Friday,then during the week I have to drive up from Kent to Ripon,so can pop in to RStuning Leeds and dyno test the car as it is.His dyno dynamics 4wd RR is pretty good.
If APR MK have their dyno running properly,then maybe I can just get it checked there.
I'll be sending a few emails this week and see what happens.


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## TondyRSuzuka (Dec 3, 2011)

jaybyme said:


> The Siemoneit racing map that I have on the car now works well,so I would have to be 100 % sure about the new APR map before having it on my car this time.
> If you think about it,German tuners have had over 2yrs of testing and developing maps for the stronic,and many still have problems.
> Looks like I'll be driving to the UK on Friday,then during the week I have to drive up from Kent to Ripon,so can pop in to RStuning Leeds and dyno test the car as it is.His dyno dynamics 4wd RR is pretty good.
> If APR MK have their dyno running properly,then maybe I can just get it checked there.
> I'll be sending a few emails this week and see what happens.


I live 30 minutes from Ripon, close to leeds/bradford airport. Let me know when you are going to RS tuning I think there are a few of us that have threatened to go there for a rolling road day. We can meet together?

Regarding APR remap... I wouldnt like to say at this point that the issues I'm having are due to S-Tronic... But I seem to be the only one whos running it. However that being said, in May I had stage 2 flashed, ran 425bhp 514 ftlb, nothing has changed other than visiting dealer in-between (car was already upto date before my initial stage 2 flash) for a service. The car then ran on awesomes rollers again at 397bhp and something like 430ftlb... The new V2.0 Stage 2 applied and the car then ran 390bhp 448ftlb, graph showed increase of area under the graph but 40-50bhp down... We were running with air temps of 25C but with a forge road intercooler. The only thing APR want to put their finger on is the intercooler, if this is the case then Forge will have a lot to answer for.

Other than his, APR are stumped and really we dont know which way to turn, but this car has last a significant amount of power, yet feels fast on road.

Another oddity is that I was running 3.1 second 0-60 on VBox with original stage 2, after the flash and finding the dyno figures say im down on power I have achieved nothing below a 3.2 seconds. Even though the graph showed an increase in area under the graph (albeit still running crap figures)

So really in reply to SuperRS, returning to original map would still see me running low figures... Something odd is going on!


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

Seems like a good idea if we meet up in Leeds then,but it will more than likely have to be one morning during the week.
My car ran 400 hp with Forge and stage 1 Siemoneit map the first time I had my car tuned on RStunings rollers.
Then it was only running around 1.3 bar boost,now the gauge sticks at the max OBD boost of 1.5 bar
Intakes are fine with the Forge,so that won't be why your power is down.
Surely APR should be able to see if anything is being pulled back on your car,timing,boost etc


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## TondyRSuzuka (Dec 3, 2011)

jaybyme said:


> Seems like a good idea if we meet up in Leeds then,but it will more than likely have to be one morning during the week.
> My car ran 400 hp with Forge and stage 1 Siemoneit map the first time I had my car tuned on RStunings rollers.
> Then it was only running around 1.3 bar boost,now the gauge sticks at the max OBD boost of 1.5 bar
> Intakes are fine with the Forge,so that won't be why your power is down.
> Surely APR should be able to see if anything is being pulled back on your car,timing,boost etc


Yes I find it odd that such a large VAG tuning company blame a forge intercooler when it makes little sense since the same cooler made 425bhp 2 months before... Convenient however, as they have just released their own FMIC for a reasonable price of £1400


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## Patrizio72 (Mar 22, 2011)

TondyTT said:


> jaybyme said:
> 
> 
> > Seems like a good idea if we meet up in Leeds then,but it will more than likely have to be one morning during the week.
> ...


Pfffff! id rather go on holiday than buy that intercooler! :lol:


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## SuperRS (Mar 7, 2012)

So dyno aside the car still feels fast? And the v-box figures are only slightly slower? Could be the warmer temps we are having?

I remember racing my friends 996 turbo with 510hp in the winter to 190 and we were neck and neck. Did the same run on a hit summers day and the Porsche left me behind like I was 40hp down.


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## Patrizio72 (Mar 22, 2011)

That's the hot under the collar TT for ya.


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## TondyRSuzuka (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperRS said:


> So dyno aside the car still feels fast? And the v-box figures are only slightly slower? Could be the warmer temps we are having?


True other than the 3.1's were achieved consistently in 25C OAT.

Im running Forge Road and got crap figures, a mate ran his stage 2 V2.0 Manual with stock intercooler the next day, same time, same temps, and hit over 420bhp and high torque as expected with this map.

So something is amiss. APR data logged the car and read temp in the 60s on the road, got as low as 55 with Forge FMIC, APR said they should be in the 40s? I dont know if they are referring to their own cooler there?

Everyone seems baffled, unless there is something technical with S-Tronic that APR are or are not aware of?

Who knoes, but hope it gets sorted soon, got 30 - 130 booked and paid for and a few more drag events before the season is up, and want to really get full benefits from this car and remap while I can this year. Shame as it was running bloody well before this, got my best 1/4 mile of 11.52  was hoping to see at least 3seconds 0-60 and 11.3 1/4 mile with this new version of stage 2.


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

Patrizio72 said:


> TondyTT said:
> 
> 
> > jaybyme said:
> ...


your possibly right,but I do think it looks the best available,and as I use my car daily on the Autobahns,it could make a difference.
Time will tell if it's actually worth the money.
Just booked my crossing for next Friday,so a week or so of fish & chips,curries and slow driving lol


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## SuperRS (Mar 7, 2012)

If its dyno figures alone that's the issue I wouldn't let it bother me. Awesomes rollers have a reputation of being inconsistent


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

TondyTT said:


> SuperRS said:
> 
> 
> > So dyno aside the car still feels fast? And the v-box figures are only slightly slower? Could be the warmer temps we are having?
> ...


My old stage 2 APR map produced 394 hp on APR's rollers,but that was after many runs whilst lögging and lots of heat soak.
With the standard map I saw 375 hp on the first run,dropping to 340 hp with heat soak,so if we added 35hp due to heat soak,the figures would of been pretty good.
Intake temps max out at about +25c ambient with the Forge street


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## TondyRSuzuka (Dec 3, 2011)

well ill give RSTuning a go with Jaybyme in a week or so... hopefully we get a good price, as i can see me spending lots of time on rollers soon.


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## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

Have APR logged IATs then if they are blaming the intercooler?


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

TondyTT said:


> well ill give RSTuning a go with Jaybyme in a week or so... hopefully we get a good price, as i can see me spending lots of time on rollers soon.


Sent Paul at Rstuning a message,to see if he can fit a few in for week starting 05.08,although I might be able to make it on the 3rd


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## Patrizio72 (Mar 22, 2011)

jaybyme said:


> Patrizio72 said:
> 
> 
> > TondyTT said:
> ...


Lucky fella, new intercooler and holiday in England thrown in for free!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

no confirmation that I can pick up a new cooler yet,so it could be a long drive for Fish&Chips :lol:


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

Dyno figures leave a lot to be desired, they leave many owners scratching their heads looking for faults that just do not exist. Awesome's dynojet is a farce, (yes I've used it about 5 or 6 x when I was living in Harrogate for 5yrs) Their clutch (flywheel) figures seem to be okay, but their wheel figures more often than not show extremely low transmission losses, like 5%. (Did on my LCR anyway) Torque figures were wildly innacurate too and about 50lbft higher than any other dyno.

So I wouldn't let Awesomes dynojet start puzzling me if it come off with low figures, can be down to something ridiculous like tyre pressures or strap tension.

Saying all that, I do not like the idea of boosting a standard turbo at 1.8bar as claimed by this new map. I find it pointless, give with one hand, take with another. Also, the forge street unit has come under flak for years now. They may well be right, increase in boost temperature, increase in inlet air temps and EGT's and the forge unit isn't coping. If APR are saying this new stage 2 map is good for 1.8bar I think they are right questioning the Forge street. I suspect it's good for 1.8 only with their super dooper new intercooler.

You may well need to dig deep into your pockets for their new cooler if you want their new map performing.

If it's nothing to do with the cooler, may just be a dodgy batch of fuel, spark plugs, air filter needing replaced or the more humid weather we are having at the moment after the last couple of weeks heatwave.

Wait until November, it will be flying again, some nice 2c ambients and the car is insane on the roads.


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

Other tuners and cars are running high boost with 450 +ps whilst using small coolers ?
I just can't see it being the cooler as intakes are still pretty good with the Forge.although it is possible to see very high intakes if doing lots of runs on a dyno.These however can't be repeated on the road
If it were the intakes,wouldn't the map just pull back boost,timing slightly and still produce 410-420 hp ?
I'd love to have a nice vacuum boost gauge fitted to see exactly what my car is boosting at the moment.
Going by what APR have said,you can't read more than 2550mbarfrom the OBD port without a special program, which would explain why someone with the same map as me,has posted their gauge showing over 1.7 bar

See what Tondy gets on RStunings dyno.
His results are considered to be very accurate.


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## TondyRSuzuka (Dec 3, 2011)

Mitchy:

I agree with what you're saying to an extent, however my car was running lower figures when I arrived before new map so new map boost and temps can't be to blame.

Additionally my mate managed good figures the day after, same temps running stock FMIC.

So go figure.


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## SuperRS (Mar 7, 2012)

Inconsistent dyno. You will only end up chasing your own tail. AMD's dyno has the same reputation, made 440hp on Revo stage 1 then did Revo stage 2 dyno on a different day and made 390hp. Then went on another dyno and made 420hp stage 2. Was stage 2 slower than stage 1. Nope, it's just dynos can be terribly inconsistent. Unless its a back to back run I wouldn't put too much faith in dyno numbers.

I should have a forge race intercooler for sale once my APR unit has arrived. APR say that the forge race is a good improvement over OEM and forge street so if you want a half price new intercooler give me a shout.


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## LEO-RS (Apr 13, 2009)

Yeah good point on the before the recalibration. May just have been an off day (bad batch of fuel, tyre pressure, strap tension, heat and humidity etc)

Be very careful that you don't start chasing your tail though, can be very expensive. You'll know yourself if it feels more lethargic, your vbox figures, the kick in the back feel. You should give another dyno a try (RS tuning dyno) before doing anything drastic and splashing the cash on a new cooler.

Also watch out for clever marketing aswell though. The new APR calibration may only realistically work with their cooler, sort of forces you in that direction. To be fair, the new unit does look the business, there was always a big question over TTRS coolers previously.

The fact APR made their own unit, Jason is talking about changing his forge race for their new cooler (so will be his 4th cooler on the car) Not sure what's happening with JC's car and what unit his is running, I also suspect APR's new unit. So that may tell you something. I know Keith and the guys at APR thoroughly test these things and have no doubt that it's probably the number 1 unit, if they are saying that it is down to the forge street then chances are it is.


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## SuperRS (Mar 7, 2012)

There's some stuff in regards to the TTRS intercooler on the Facebook group.

The reason why I'm swapping my forge race for the APR is:

1. I'm gonna be running the apr stage 3 kit so for continuity sakes best to keep all hardware APR
2. I believe the APR unit is slightly better than the forge race as it has more frontal area
3. As I'm gonna be running 2bar+ boost I want nothing but the best on the market for my car.

As I understand APR don't rate the forge sport intercooler, but they do say the forge race does work from testing on jonnyc's car.

I also have a forge sport for sale lol, which I will let go cheap.


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## Patrizio72 (Mar 22, 2011)

Pm me how much it's going for

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## SuperRS (Mar 7, 2012)

I'm after 700 for the race.
200 for the sport.

The race isn't available until I know my APR unit has reached UK shores as I might have to fit it for 30-130 if it isn't.


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## TondyRSuzuka (Dec 3, 2011)

Mitchy:

I keep saying a lad upgraded his manual the day after me, same conditions but stock cooler... He ran well. So not as though the new map is really only going to work with their intercooler. Im sure APR wouldnt pull a fast one like that, wouldnt do their rep any good.

My car has since been back, reflashed several versions and back to the update. Still running crap figures.

Awesome and APR dumbfounded. We are comparing several RS's in a week or so hopefully by data logging on the road. Will be interesting to see how intake temps vary, and across what products.

RSTuning is one option, however as much as many people will curse the Awesome rollers and claim they are inaccurate, I dont think that is the cause. I cant understand how its my cooler, unless its sh!t, in which case I'd love to hear Forges response...

The APR cooler sounds the nuts, I'd love one. However I cannot afford it, its simply priced too high!

VBox is consistently 3.2 it was consistently 3.1 before the update. So thats gone the wrong bloody way! Christ knows what the 1/4 mile will stand at right now? The car feels to pull hard still, and yes I know its warm at the moment so thats sapping power. But lets face it, on the rollers in this heat we'd expect to see a drop of peak figures somewhere around 5-10bhp and a little more ftlb...

Fingers crossed we get to the bottom of it. If youre exceptionally perceptive, you may have just spotted I'm a little hacked off. Partially because I feel APR are just shrugging their shoulders, which isnt what I was expecting :?


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## SuperRS (Mar 7, 2012)

On the TTRS I'd expect more than 10hp difference between winter and summer. If you look at the APR graphs of stock intercooler vs APR and the difference IAT's make on the motor would back that theory up.

What numbers did the manual car run?


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## Vassilis (Mar 20, 2007)

It's much more than 10hp indeed between summer and winter... I've seen differences up to 30hp when it was really hot outside (35-40°C).


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

If we meet up at RStuning,then it will basically be a comparison between two maps.
I think our cars are pretty much at the same state of tune,although I'm still running decatted oem sports exhaust.
Not sure how my car will react to UK fuel,but we will see.
IF I can pick up an APR cooler on my way up,then there's even a possibility of me doing two visits to RStuning and get a read out with the APR tuner.
No emails answered yet from APR,so I haven't a clue if any coolers are even available at the moment ?


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## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

jaybyme said:


> If we meet up at RStuning,then it will basically be a comparison between two maps.
> I think our cars are pretty much at the same state of tune,although I'm still running decatted oem sports exhaust.
> Not sure how my car will react to UK fuel,but we will see.
> IF I can pick up an APR cooler on my way up,then there's even a possibility of me doing two visits to RStuning and get a read out with the APR tuner.
> No emails answered yet from APR,so I haven't a clue if any coolers are even available at the moment ?


I'd be happy to meet you too jay, I live just south of Leeds


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

As soon as I know what day I will be in Leeds,I'll let you know.


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## TondyRSuzuka (Dec 3, 2011)

jaybyme said:


> If we meet up at RStuning,then it will basically be a comparison between two maps.
> I think our cars are pretty much at the same state of tune,although I'm still running decatted oem sports exhaust.
> Not sure how my car will react to UK fuel,but we will see.
> IF I can pick up an APR cooler on my way up,then there's even a possibility of me doing two visits to RStuning and get a read out with the APR tuner.
> No emails answered yet from APR,so I haven't a clue if any coolers are even available at the moment ?


Yes d love to see a comparison with APR cooler. Awesome have an APR cooler sitting on their shelf collecting dust.


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

interesting to know
Tondy,is your car driving ok with the new map,so forgetting about dyno results ?


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## TondyRSuzuka (Dec 3, 2011)

jaybyme said:


> interesting to know
> Tondy,is your car driving ok with the new map,so forgetting about dyno results ?


Yes seems to run very well, dyno figures apart...

Cooler weather will tell i guess.


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## SuperRS (Mar 7, 2012)

And area under the curve increased?


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## TondyRSuzuka (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperRS said:


> And area under the curve increased?


Yes. But VBox times down on before. Havnt seen same times since map, done 15 launches at various temps and points in the day/night

Getting RSC exhaust fitted next week and will Dyno it again.


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

The only way I would change the exhaust on mine would be to save weight,I love the sound as it is.
Although with my current map, the flap is open with the S button,which is great when changing down in town.
As long as your car is running well,no misfires,safety modes etc,that's the main thing.
There's a lot of variables with dyno's and 0-60 times.
Could just be something simple, like warm temperatures/pressure and tyre pressures 
are you using Vpower ?
My cars going to have a shock coming down from 102 octane,lol


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

PM's sent
would be very interesting if we meet,as we all have different maps at the moment.
MRC,APR,and the unknown outsider from Germany, Siemoneit Racing


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