# TT vs Elise



## t7 (Nov 2, 2002)

Today I sent an email to a (male) acquaintance who drives an Elise...

_* Hi TTR 225 delivered at the weekend - it's brill. Are you sure you don't want to upgrade your Elise......?*_

He replied...

_* I always think that TTR drivers are the best in the world. After all, they can drive and style hair at the same time...

One of my best friends has a TTR 225. Very nice in detailing etc.. But ... it's a Golf in drag, and not as fun to drive. Certainly not an "upgrade" to a Lotus driver.*_

Please can someone help me with a good reply.... thx.
;D


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## Lisa. (May 7, 2002)

Twizzle

BL
x


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

" Could I meet your best friend with good taste, style and the sexiest drag queen on the road?"

"Is the friendship one way?"

" I'd have thought driving a TT would be an upgrade over a Vauxhall based platform!" (I know its VX is Lotus based)!

cant think of any more yet! :-/


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## DXN (May 18, 2002)

Is the engine in the elise a rover based block??


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## paulb (May 6, 2002)

Not just block. Rover 1.8 K series....


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2002)

Unfortunately for you the elsie is twice the drivers car that the TT will ever be, you may comfort yourself with the fact that the TT has AWD and thus you feel invincible in the wet, but you'll never experience the sheer thrill of potent rear wheel drive combined with a fantastic symphony of noise. Of course the TT doesn't leek, has carpets and generally didn't raid the metro parts bin. The Elise uses the 1.8 K series rover lump which is highly regarded and used in many race series.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2002)

If it helps, a friend of mine owns an elise so after us both having driven each others on occasion hopefully my comments are honest. I don't think I'd buy an elise but he is constantly amazed at how well the TT glues to the road and is always complementary. I can barely keep up with his accord R-Type however and never have a chance against the elsie. The other disturbing point of elsie ownership is that everyone and I mean EVERYONE waves and flashes


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## Tintin (May 10, 2002)

Elise drivers used to wave, until I moved to london .. don't think anyone waves in london.

Since I got my TT I have not bothered to wave!

Elise was great, but now I can travel in comfort, don;t know why I didn't change my elise sooner!


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Louise,
your friend should visit my dentist!!  Not to have his teeths seen to, but for a chat 
Phil (my dentist) used to own an Elise for donkey's years. Since he drives a TT, he never stopped smiling ;D ;D ;D and that's not dentistry talk!!!


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## Dubcat (Jun 10, 2002)

"I was going to let you shag me but after your comments i've changed my mind." ;D

That will hit him where it hurts 

phoTToniq.


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

Elise is excellent drivers' car. But... that is all it can do, it is a one-trick pony. Zero luggage space, zero creature comforts, poor safety kit, cramped cockpit, poor build quality (allegedly) etc, etc, etc. No-one disputes that what it does, it does very well, probably better than almost everything else on the road. If that is your only yardstick, then it wins, and is a great car.

But if you need a more balanced overall package, then out of these two the TT is superior. That's not a subjective opinion, just a blindingly obvious fact. The TT provides a high level of safety and toys in an attractive, well-built (most of the time!) feel-good package with more than adequate (for 99% of people) performance and handling.

Both cars are excellent at what they are trying to achieve. Which one is better, and whether the TT is an "upgrade" from an Elise or vice-versa, depends solely on your personal criteria.

There... a rational appraisal with no insults to anyone. The fact that your friend has to resort to the boring, hackneyed hairdresser analogy means (a) he can't find anything genuinely wrong with the TT so is resorting to banality (and not even original banality at that!) and (b) obviously accepts that the TT is in some ways superior to the Elise, so has to defend the Lotus by any means, however puerile and ridiculous.


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

LOL! hardly a quick fire response that...

how about the summary: -

"SHUT UP you banine git!" Â  ;D

yup, works for me!


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## scottm (May 7, 2002)

>> hardly a quick fire response

True, but at the end of the day no words are needed at all. Just stand and laugh at Elise owners struggling to put their hoods on when it starts raining. ;D


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## DXN (May 18, 2002)

I know what I'd rather have....

http://www.********.co.uk/gallery/dxn/ttlotus.jpg

;D


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## DXN (May 18, 2002)

oops... a bit blurry that one. Needless to say the holiday was great. No clear winner each car has there own merits (some have distinctions)

Sorry JDN only Joking..(lotus owner)


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## ttsquiff (Sep 2, 2002)

Do Lotus still give a free embossed shower jacket with Elise's???


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## sTTu (May 7, 2002)

Having had two Elises and now on a TTR I reckon they are uncomparable so why bother trying to compare them. Four wheel and no roof is about all they have in common.

Oh and yes, Elises drivers wave more! ;D

sTTu


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2002)

An elise would be ok as a third car 

Elises areen't all that quick though. Run out of go really quickly. I smile and wave at about 85 as I go by them


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## Dubcat (Jun 10, 2002)

I bet an Elise feels quicker at speeds which you spend most of your life at (i.e. under 90). Â I am guessing this because you are closer to the road in a car which probably feels more like a kart than a car.

I wouldn't mind one as a second/third car but it's competition is not the TT. Â Competition for the Elise is more likely to be the Caterham 7 or Westfield in my book. Â I know i would pick the Caterham or Westfield myself though.

phoTToniq.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2002)

Lotus Elise 0-60 4.3, 0-100 10.9

Audi TT 0-60 6.4(and we all know that's exagerated by audi) 0-100 16.4

So kinda odd all these people waving at Elises at 85, I guess there just not trying very hard.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2002)

>So kinda odd all these people waving at Elises at 85, 
>I guess there just not trying very hard.

Nope, if I tried harder I'd be waving at 60


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2002)

ps. Where did you get your perf figures from. They are nothing like the figures I've seen. Also, didn't Wak whip these inferior cars at his track day? ;D

pps. Anybody else noticed there TT getting quicker at around 20k miles?


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## jdn (Aug 26, 2002)

Tell him to drive a TT. I've driven both, and they are both great drives, for different reasons as detailed above. Yes the Elise is a fantastic drivers car, with superb steering and great performance, good looks and sound, but noisy and occasionally leaky. Reasonable luggae space (cf. MR2).
TT is also a fantastit drive in its own way. Puts the power down well, great grip / traction. Also looks great but more comfortable, better spec, 4(sort of) seats etc. etc.
If he has driven one and hates it then fair enough, but if he hasn't he should go for a spirited drive in one, and appreciate it for the car it is.

Or just tell him to sod off!


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

> ps. Where did you get your perf figures from. Â They are nothing like the figures I've seen. Â Also, didn't Wak whip these inferior cars at his track day? Â ;D
> 
> pps. Anybody else noticed there TT getting quicker at around 20k miles?


Whip is a rather strong word...just a gentle slapping!

plus you have to be objective...they have a few different tunes so I could have been racing a lower model...kept most at bay except one who I eventually let past

he wanted to show me some power through some bendys and promptly spun out with me passing him facing the wrong way.

One of those classic and most satisfying moments!

plus I have a bit more power than the usualy elise which makes up for any poor driving technique that I have.  ;D


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2002)

I meet a nice chap a while ago with a 640bhp skyline. Got chatting with him and assumed he'd take the piss out of my TT. He said he'd taken one for a drive recently and has surprised how good they were. He said if the sale man hadn't been such an arse he would have got one as his 2nd car. Instead he ended up with a 330d (which btw chipped does a 1/4 quicker than a stock TT  )


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## sTTu (May 7, 2002)

> Lotus Elise 0-60 4.3, 0-100 10.9
> .


Huh ???? Mine never went that fast !!! I think (and I stand to be corrected) but those were the figures for the 190 Sport, which _was_ very fast.

I drove a new Elise a couple of months ago and it felt slow compared to the TT, but the _sensation_ of speed was awesome, I looked at the speedo and it was touching 90mph on a country road, I could have sworn we were doing 110mph+ On any of the trackdays we did we never managed much over 115mph to 120mph down the back of Thruxton.

Anyway actual speed is irrelavent, its how you drive it and the feeling you get that counts.

sTTu


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2002)

I justed picked em off a google search. Did seem quite quick. Though the Elise is certainly faster in any trim than a TT chipped or not 

From Lotus site.
0 - 62 mph (100km/h) 5.1 seconds

0 - 100 mph (160km/h) 14 seconds

Also did anyone notice how audi revised the 0-62 for the TT from 6.4 to 6.7 this year, hardly surprising as many reviews claimed it struggled to hit 60 in 7.0. This seems to be upheld by Forges performance figures and my own driving experience chasing Hondas and the like.

The TT is a fantastic car and like others have said is to the Elsie as chalk is to cheese, that's no reason to start acting like the scoobynet crowd and believeing your car is a rocketship all of a sudden.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2002)

pinkaardvark, I was having some fun  Â

The TT in standard form is probably no match and yes the original perf figures for the TT (esp. the roadster) were a bit on the optimisitc side. Â If you thrash the hell out of a standard TT and drop the clutch you'll achieve the revised times though. Â I saw a 5.8 0-60 once in whatcar as I recall. Â Of course, you DO NOT want to do that. Â The car deserves alot of respect  Â

Wak & I both have modified TTs and that is the only reason we can beat Elises (190 excluded?). Â With the extra BHP+suspension the TT is a fairer comparsion to the Elise in my mind. Â Indeed, I think a modded TT is a great sports car and from experiance I know I can beat/overtake many other sports car now Â (scooby wrx, elise 110 etc) which is how it should be in such a great looking car Â 8) Â I don't think racing is big or clever Â : and yes such talk probably doesn't belong on this forum. Â (but I think everyone enjoys the odd road kill, so to speak  )


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## TTotal (Aug 12, 2002)

Must say I am pretty disappointed with my TTR's performance, think sTTu mentioned the phrase " sensation of speed" - well moving "up" from my A3s , yeh there is a bit more of a rush about it, but certainly nothiong awesome and certainly not what I had expected. I put this down to the fact that I have a reasonably quick bike, which like most modern big bikes, gets the adrenalin going, the neck jerking acceleration is obviously not what I would get from a stock TTR but thought it would be better than this.
I'm up to 2500 mls now, and starting to give it some stick, but feel that there's not 225 hp there..is this normal ?Lots of you guys say that the car "improves " with miles - I honestly think that is nonsense, as for the "turn on the ignition then wait 3 minutes for the throttle to re-set".......thats like Granny (no not Carol) saying that you'll get piles from sitting on cold walls (Dr Dixon ?) !! !! I really am fed up having Cavaliers up my bumper. Any thought chaps ?


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2002)

A few years back I had my name down for a TT, but when my build date arrived I cancelled it due to finances. It was the one car I'd ever seen at a motorshow and said "right, I'm having one of those, it's beautiful". To make it even harder to cancel I was even offered one of the 50th birthday Lotus editions (50 made, all in a unique green with special wheels and number certificated). I was regretting cancelled it until I stepped into a TTC a few years later.

There is no doubt the Elise is faster and definitely more of a drivers car. But as an overall package, for a similar price, the TTC is much, much, much better in my opinion.

So if you're after a short snappy retort... I turned down the Elise and regretted it. I've since owned two TTC's and I don't have one minute of regret and from the moment I sat in one my Elise desire just ebbed away.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2002)

:-/ This is exactly the opinion I had of my 225 TTC just after I bought it. It takes a while to get to know a car and how to get the most performance out of it. The gearchange is not particularly quick, but then again it has a lovely smooooth clutch, and the engine is far more responsive at the top end of the rev range once you've passed the turbo lag barrier 

After owning mine for 6 months now, all I can say is it feels a whole lot quicker than when I bought it! The fact that it has just passed 8000 miles and may now be 'run in' and the recent colder air temperatures (good for the turbo) may also be factors in my impression that it 'goes like stink'! Having said that, there is plenty of room for improvement with remaps, the chassis is well capable of handling more power 8)

So hang on in there John, you won't be dissapointed


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## TTotal (Aug 12, 2002)

Thanks Spaceman, but why remap when allegedly theres 225 hp there !
I have driven lots of cars, and considering the number of horses per weight of car, most of them gave a better sensation of speed. In fact real speed too. Chucking in another 25 or 50 hp aint gonna make that much differance (IMOHO) and there's the cost too...spent it all now on bolt ons, even spent my next months pocket money (that should read next years !!) Think the answer is to have a "go " with another similar spec car and see if there is something wrong.  John


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## Emmy (May 7, 2002)

Heh...

With my modifications, I can do 0-100kph at a timed 5secs... Thats with Aquamist active, and flying thru the short shifter at furious pace... I've outperformed quite a few Elises (road & track), and last Monday I attended a Brands Hatch track day, where my TTR bested several Elises and Esprits (one of the Lotus clubs booked 20 places, so there were quite a few around). One of the Elises was far quicker than my TTR tho, but thats cuz it had a Technical Turbo 230BHP Supercharger Conversion (0-100kph at less than 4.2secs)!

Granted, I can't 'thrash' them, and there are a few out there that can beat me, but in the immortal words of Vin Diesel (Fast& Furious), "Winning is Winning"! 

Shash.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2002)

John, even though a remap 'only' adds an extra 25 - 50 bhp power, I think there is more of an increase in the torque. Torque = pulling power or acceleration. This helps because the TT is a relativly heavy car, compared to an Elise of course!

May be we should both have a go of a timed 0-60 'run what you brung' event at santa Pod, or a North Weald. I think roadsters are heavier than coupes too! Â ;D Â


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## Wak (May 6, 2002)

John, 
lets talk about remaps when we meet on the 13th!  ;D


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2002)

> Thanks Spaceman, but why remap when allegedly theres 225 hp there !
> I have driven lots of cars, and considering the number of horses per weight of car, most of them gave a better sensation of speed. In fact real speed too. Chucking in another 25 or 50 hp aint gonna make that much differance (IMOHO) and there's the cost too...spent it all now on bolt ons, even spent my next months pocket money (that should read next years !!) Think the answer is to have a "go " with another similar spec car and see if there is something wrong.  John


A surprising ammount of power is lost in the TT's transmission.. thie hidden costs of AWD i'm afraid. This is why you'll see FWD Civic , integra R and many other sporty cars showing better acceleration with the same or lower power.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2002)

John, the remap makes an amazing difference to the TTR. I've only ever driven a standard TTC (180) so I don't know what differece it makes to that. I know what you mean about the car NOT feeling like it has 225bhp in standard trim (note a throttle reset can help that - mine always felts quicker after a service)

If anybody lives near peterborough and wants to go for a spin some time in a AMD modded TTR sometime send me an IM. Â Fruit cakes need not apply


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## TTotal (Aug 12, 2002)

Thanks guys, all taken on board. So the power loss in the transmission is the culprit. Off to Halfords for a new map then ! Fnar fnar .


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## GRANNY (Jun 18, 2002)

John


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

> So the power loss in the transmission is the culprit


Not strictly true, as the TT's 4WD system is not in operation full time. The rear wheels only start to put down power via the Haldex diff once the fronts start to slip. Remember, at the Vlastan meet, we were talking about how much technology these TT's have and the fact that you have to be really 'pushing' the car to appreciate a lot of it's features? The extra _weight_ of the 4WD system is something to consider though.


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## TTotal (Aug 12, 2002)

Yeh get your point Paul.

Maybe I am not pusing enough my self ? ;D


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2002)

> Not strictly true, as the TT's 4WD system is not in operation full time. The rear wheels only start to put down power via the Haldex diff once the fronts start to slip. Remember, at the Vlastan meet, we were talking about how much technology these TT's have and the fact that you have to be really 'pusing' the car to appreciate a lot of it's features? The extra _weight_ of the 4WD system is something to consider though.


I have to disagree, I think you'll find that the power lost between the flywheel to the tyre is noticeably more on a TT regardless of driving conditions and how much power is being transfered to the rear, in comparison to other FWD cars. If that wasn't the case why do cars with less power but more weight and only FWD spank the TT?

Nothing looks as gorgeous as a TT and it's my ideal car for lack of depreciation, fantastic interior and exterior and good all round performance.. but it does have weaknesses. A nice V6 biturbo with a RWD biased AWD system.. now that would be my ultimate TT


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2002)

p.s. Paul, I think you'll find the AWD always transmits power to the rear, this can be as little as 10% in normal driving but the bias is always there.


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

> p.s. Paul, I think you'll find the AWD always transmits power to the rear, this can be as little as 10% in normal driving but the bias is always there.


  Interesting, thanks for the info Pinky. So there are losses through the extra propshaft & clutch in the Haldex. 10% bias, never knew that - of course the full system operation is not explained in detail in the TT manual! I must admit, when I've been accelerating really hard in my car (2nd - 3rd gear, flat out), I sometimes notice a 'clunk' feeling through the transmission. I read somewhere that the front/rear wheels have to slip by 45 degrees before the back wheels kick in, is this what I am feeling? When you get this 'clunk' feeling, the engine revs stay exactly the same, nor does the turbo note seem to change, or could this be the dump valve reacting... (too slowly)


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

> Nothing looks as gorgeous as a TT and it's my ideal car for lack of depreciation, fantastic interior and exterior and good all round performance.. but it does have weaknesses. A nice V6 biturbo with a RWD biased AWD system.. now that would be my ultimate TT


I agree totally on this, I think the TT would be more fun (not that it isn't fun as standard!) if it was RWD biased - I think Sash was talking about modifying the hydraulic oil pressure to the Haldex to make it more RWD biased.

I'd stick with the 4 cylinder engine though - ditch the cat and stick a set of Weber carbs on it! (not really!)

So as this is (was!) a TT v Elise thread, and you're selling your TT, what are you replacing it with?


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> Must say I am pretty disappointed with my TTR's performance, ...................I really am fed up having Cavaliers up my bumper. Any thought chaps ? Â


Then it's time to 'get yer foot in' and raz the nutts off of it.  Cars that are driven hard go better sooner, 'cos they get looser. And seeing as you are unlikely to have the car at 100K miles, when you get the benefits of a more gentle running in, why not just slay it now?


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> Thanks guys, all taken on board. So the power loss in the transmission is the culprit. Off to Halfords for a new map then ! Fnar fnar .


Disagree. The TT quattro system I understand to be 100% fwd unless slip is detected at front, in which case haldex engages. It is to all purposes an fwd car most of the time and would therefore suffer similar transmision power loses to say a Golf in any accleration except off-the line.

I think you will find a bigger culprit in the TTs weight. It is a porker and weights more than the larger original Ur Quattro featuring the 'heavier and less efficient' Torsen Quattro system', which also had the benefit of 2.3 litres to help pick it's skirts up.

Audi are starting to address the weight problems in the new A8 (heavens, a replacement that is actually lighter than its predecessors ). Hopefully they will apply this methodology to TT sucessors.

TT is 250Kg too heavy for what it is and its size on the road. Basically it is like permanantly carrying 3 passengers - dull the performance.

_Finishing controversionally......_

As for anyone who believes a 270 hp TT can spank an Elise (any Elise) on lap times at any track. Ha. Ha.
Just 'cos on the road a TT can pull groung on an Elise on the A road/motorway above 80mph, or on long straights, does not mean that, in similar hands, an Elise will not: brake later; carry more speed into, through and out of corners; and generate more lateral G than a TT - even a chipped one.

All due respect to Wak and co, but just 'cos one span out on your track day, and just 'cos the 2X horsepower advantage of your TT enables you to hold off some Elises on the straights, on true flying laps a basic Elise will be many seconds ahead of your TT. At Coombe probably 3 seconds plus. The elises tyres are worth 100 TT hp alone.

I have driven both cars on the same tracks at JP's Bedford facility. Elises are approx 3-4 secs faster for most drivers, even on the North Circuit, which favours power.

Likewise, in a true track racing, the TT straight line advantage over 60mph will be instantly diminished when you have an Elise diving inside you under braking, and pulling away from the apex 'cos his lithe weight sheds inertia so well.

A 270 hp remap and brake job is unlikely to find 4 track seconds extra in a TT. In fact you are more likely to find time from some stickier tyres.

Sorry boys you are dreaming 

However, I'd take the TT for normal A-B road work any time, since you have to work the Elsie(sic) so hard to make similar progress, and the lack of abs, damp roads etc would all favour the TT. ;D

runs......


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

On the way into work this evening (sad I know) I had a little 'tussle' with a new purple coloured Elise around the City airport route in London Docklands.... No doubt about it, they are bloody quick, you can see they are much lighter, hardly any roll around roundabouts. This guy left me, but he was driving like a nutcase, with his exhausts spitting 

Anyway, I wont be sad tomorrow as I finish work, and will be enjoying all the extra creature comforts that the TT offers over an Elise on my 40 mile trip home, watching all the traffic queued up coming in ;D No work for 4 days = playing with the TT!


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2002)

> On the way into work this evening (sad I know) I had a little 'tussle' with a new purple coloured Elise around the City airport route in London Docklands.... No doubt about it, they are bloody quick, you can see they are much lighter, hardly any roll around roundabouts. This guy left me, but he was driving like a nutcase, with his exhausts spitting Â
> 
> Anyway, I wont be sad tomorrow as I finish work, and will be enjoying all the extra creature comforts that the TT offers over an Elise on my 40 mile trip home, watching all the traffic queued up coming in Â ;D No work for 4 days = playing with the TT!


True but is anyone here beginning to feel a bit jaded about the lack of real updates to the TT.. ok it's nice inside but the option list is rather boring and well.. it's getting a bit long in the tooth compared to some really bland cars. I mean keycard entry and start, tyre pressure monitors, heated front screens, reversing sensors, proper satnav with decent touch colour screen.. half decent mobile phone packages, upto date stereos rather than bland black blobs...
TT is nice to look at but it kinda gets left behind by modern mondeo/laguna man comfort levels.


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## t7 (Nov 2, 2002)

Guys thanks - learned a lot - am also happy that I didn't buy a go-kart with no carpets and metro parts (brilliant - which bits? I have to mention that in my reply!) ;D

The part you lost me on is the Haldex - can someone explain? I assume it is part of "quattro" - and is the bit of kit that applies variable drive to each wheel? Surely no-one modifies this?

BTW is there an "advanced" owners manual that explains this type of thing? Or do I need to gather this kind of info by studying the forum..?

Louise


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## DXN (May 18, 2002)

Haldex....try

http://www.haldextraction.com/

Happy to help


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

T7 - this is a good link too - www.audiworld.com/model/tt/news/intro - it's 18 pages and very informative.

Glad to be of service :


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

> The TT quattro system I understand to be 100% fwd unless slip is detected at front, in which case haldex engages. Â It is to all purposes an fwd car most of the time and would therefore suffer similar transmision power loses to say a Golf in any accleration except off-the line.


Agreed. This is how the 4wd system works, quote from Audi world:

"For the first time in the Audi model programme, therefore, the TT CoupÃ© quattro incorporates an electro-hydraulically controlled torque distribution system. It has the same advantages as previous quattro models, is extremely compact and can thus be said to be ideal for installation in the TT. The ability to respond rapidly which matches the car's sporting character so well is achieved by exceptional sensitivity: before the difference in the angles of rotation of the shafts connected to the front and rear axles has changed by more than 45 degrees, the system is able to respond to changes in road conditions.

For example, if slip occurs at the front wheels so that traction is no longer available in full, the torque distribution system takes effect and redirects an increasing amount of engine torque to the rear axle in an accurately controlled process. By the time this change in torque distribution takes effect, the wheel has rotated a mere 25 centimetres further."

Anyway, as this is a TT V Elise debate, as the Elise _ does not even have 4WD_ Â then it's lost the contest as far as I'm concerned Â ;D


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2002)

Don't know how you can say it's lost the competition, when it has far better handling in the dry regardless of not having a clunky 4wd system


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Yes, the TT does have a sometimes clunky 4wd system. And Elises can blow a standard TT away, as I've experienced (although I wasn't really trying Â :) Point is they are different cars in a different league & price bracket. I just prefer the toys and comfort of the TT, over the down to earth go cart experience of an Elise, that's all Â 

So, you would not be buying an Elise, would you? ;D


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## PopeyDog (Oct 21, 2002)

My friend has an elise and is very happy with it. It goes like stink and has go cart like handling. But he gets pissed off with the fact that is it a real nightmare to get the hood on, (with keys and he never puts the back window in anymore as it is too much hassle to carry around and install), too noisy on longer journeys, has just enough room to put a very small bag in the boot, and it smells like a scalextric after about five mins. The TT is far more bearable at higer speeds and a lot more practical for day to day. having driven both cars, i'm glad I got a TT. All down to personal taste in the end.


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## Ruffles (May 6, 2002)

I dunno I dunno.

I like the Elise. I have always liked it. Maybe this will evaporate after my first test drive (I haven't yet tried it), but I don't think so.

It is my intention to get an Elise eventually. This is in NO WAY in my mind any "upgrade" to my TTR. I love that silly green car so much I don't think I will ever sell it. As far as I can make out, the Elise is a bit of fun but not a serious car for daily use or long trips. It also seems to be very costly to get the equivalent mix of extras that we know and love in the TT.

I saw a brand new TVR in Oxford on Saturday. Not sure which model but it seemed to have been a Cerbera. Now that was one fucking gorgeous car. The plans for the Elise are for the first time starting to look a bit shaky.

Now trying to track down pricing information..


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## paulb (May 6, 2002)

I'm busy pricing up an Elise or VX220 for next spring or so. This would be in addition to the TT and mainly for sunny mornings, weekends and trackdays. Early Elises are now well under Â£15k and as the engine is a K series, cheap to pop another in if it blows.

The handling is so much better than on the TT, mainly cos it weighs half as much. You can brake later, corner harder and accelerate harder (all with much less power).

However, I would not want to do 20,000 miles a year in it like I do in my TT.

TTC for my 'sensible' car and an Elise as a toy - perfect world. Problem is, there aren't many purple Elises second hand!


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## sam (May 7, 2002)

I've had an S1 Elise for almost 4 years and am about to order an S2111S. I also have (well, the wife really), a 225TTC. These are different cars and a comparison will always result in what your personal preference is.

The TT is a brilliant car and I enjoy driving it. That said, I prefer the Elise. My wife has only driven the Elise twice and prefers the TT (this is not a sexist or hairdresser comment, just an observation).

You pay your money, you take your choice. Enjoy YOUR car, why worry what other people drive.

Sam


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## jdn (Aug 26, 2002)

T7 wrote: Guys thanks - learned a lot - am also happy that I didn't buy a go-kart with no carpets and metro parts (brilliant - which bits? I have to mention that in my reply!)

The wing mirrors are off a metro. The switchgear is half Vauxhall half Peugeot. The rear number plate lights are from Rolls Royce! The wiper motor is from Citroen.
Side repeaters are Rover items, as of course is the engine block.

There are a few more but can't remember them!


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2002)

I think the mirrors are off the mgf.. well they look the same ;D Dunno about the rest of the gear.. to be honest there's not a lot of gear on an elsie to have been nicked from elsewhere. The suspension isn't vauxhall. Lotus built the elise and then built the vx220 a good deal later so correctly you could say the vauxhall has lotus suspension.

People in glass houses though eh  How many TT bits appear on a skoda octavie :


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## thorney (May 15, 2002)

Nah, VXT would be the pick


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## foz01 (May 13, 2002)

7 pages of nothing much really :-/

Sums up the state of this forum


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## jonhaff (May 20, 2002)

just my opionions......based on 2 friends..

Lotus leaks like a sive when raining.
You cant get into it without getting wet arse when its raining, cos of the high sill.
no extras like aircon, radio/sterio come standard.
sounds like a tin box.
generally feels unsafe
hard suspension making it totally useless on long drive.
no luggage space.
Most women I know hated it as they just couldnt get in or out in a skirt !
no heated seats !

best bought as fun/weekend car only.

Just my view!


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## TTC (May 7, 2002)

I have TTR and drove it back to back with an Elise round Brands a week ago.

No real difference in lap-time but Elise gave 200% more pleasure due to feedback and lack of driver aids.

I'd have an Elise anyday for the track but completely un-practical for everyday... ;D


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## thorney (May 15, 2002)

> 7 pages of nothing much really :-/
> 
> Sums up the state of this forum


And.........


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## paulb (May 6, 2002)

Thorney

I'd get a VX Turbo but I'd have to sell the TT to justify it... I'd rather have a TT and Elise than a VX-T and something boring and sensible for long journeys.

I quite like the idea of getting back into NA tuning again - cams, heads and all that stuff...

Paul


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## thorney (May 15, 2002)

Valid comments indeed.

Turbo's are much easier to tune though for far less money.


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

> 7 pages of nothing much really :-/
> 
> Sums up the state of this forum


???? looks like 7 pages of TT V Elise debate to me Â 
Try and post something a little more constructive.....


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

> 7 pages of nothing much really :-/
> 
> Sums up the state of this forum


I actually thought this was one of the more sensible threads.

Mind you, Mr Ruffles did say the F word. Tut tut.


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## foz01 (May 13, 2002)

Just the misinformation about HALDEX, TT 4WD system etc.

people should try and post fact rather than opinion on what they had heard from somewhere!

hence why we should have a technical forum or something!

Ok well maybe a bit of an overreaction but after reading 7 pages i was like huh ???

I'll get me coat then  ;D

And yes i would quite like an elise, with a TT engine ;D


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> Just the misinformation about HALDEX, TT 4WD system etc.
> 
> people should try and post fact rather than opinion on what they had heard from somewhere!
> 
> ...


'Huh?' What is 'like huh?' A term for the mooted Technical Forum 

In my view lightweight cars like elise and caterham and VX220 are better suited to n/a rather than forced induction (turbo) power units, purely because of the power delivery/chassis balance relationship that is one of the main reasons for wanting such a car. Turbo Lag and soft throttle response can be detrimental to on the limit handling. IMO that linear, metered power feed of a free-breathing, high revving N/A engine just works so well in the Caterhams and Elises that I have driven, mainly on track.

Accepting that turbo units are cheap n easy to tune, for this class of car I would still prefer to go the polish and porting tuning route and, even better, a further weight reduction exercise and invest in some better tyres.

The 2.2 N/A unit in the VX220 should be easliy tuneable to 180-190hp without making it too peaky.

Don't know anyone who has driven the VX220 turbo yet, so am open minded about how much 'better' it is than the N/A version.

PS Crap thread


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## Antwerpman (Nov 4, 2002)

With reference to the 4wd system and if it is permanently engaged or not.....I believe the reason for debating this was to determine if the 4wd system caused additional power loss?

As far as I am aware there is no freewheeling device on the TT so even if power is not being transmitted to the rear wheels via the haldex and the 4wd system, the rear wheels will be driving the rear drive train, thus causing additional drag on the car and sapping power. This is why so many Landrovers have the freewheeling hubs - because otherwise the unpowered part of the 4WD system creates additional drag and power loss (and if you have ever driven a LR then you will know that there is already insufficient power in most guises).

Of course as I said I am not a TT expert so there may be some form of frewheeling device, but I am not aware of it.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> With reference to the 4wd system and if it is permanently engaged or not.....I believe the reason for debating this was to determine if the 4wd system caused additional power loss?
> 
> As far as I am aware there is no freewheeling device on the TT so even if power is not being transmitted to the rear wheels via the haldex and the 4wd system, the rear wheels will be driving the rear drive train, thus causing additional drag on the car and sapping power. This is why so many Landrovers have the freewheeling hubs - because otherwise the unpowered part of the 4WD system creates additional drag and power loss (and if you have ever driven a LR then you will know that there is already insufficient power in most guises).
> 
> Of course as I said I am not a TT expert so there may be some form of frewheeling device, but I am not aware of it.


Very good point. I would assume that TT does not have free heeling hubs since these would interfere with operation of electronic systems (ESP etc). I guess the intersting factor is additonal friction generated to the normal friction caused by non-driven hubs, discs calipers etc.

Does the viscous coupling diff still rotate the rear drive shafts even when car is in FWD?


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