# Dog Bone changed - excellent mod



## lordlee (Jun 20, 2012)

Changed the dog bone mount for a Powerflex PFF85-420R Diesel one. I did it as I felt the drivetrain wasnt as slick as it could be and there did feel like there was a small amount of slack. I can happily report that the new mount has made huge improvement to drivetrain feel, gear changes and the overall driving experience just feels tighter and nice. I get no added vibration either which has been a complaint of those opting for the non-diesel mount. 
Overall I am extremely pleased with the results for the £18 outlay. If you havent done this mod I would suggest you do.


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## Rich196 (Mar 31, 2011)

I agree I have done this too, good mod!!!


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## AfterHouR (Feb 8, 2012)

Did mine the other week but went for powerflex yellow and yes slight vibration on tickover but everything feels much tighter and more responsive...


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## lordlee (Jun 20, 2012)

I find quick upshifts are far easier when pressing on now. Checking the old bushes there was some wear so I am glad I did it. Its also a good chance to check that your sump has been off at some point which mine has been. Just need to sort the ABS issue now and I will be far happier...


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## Duggy (May 17, 2005)

Got mine ready to go on, just got pick up up the car first :lol:


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Yep great mod I went for the VF engineering dog bone even stiffer but once ran in I had no vibration


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

Thinking about a red one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/POWERFLEX...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3367a16baf

Do you guys know what bolts are needed as the have to be replaced apparently or the engine could drop if they fail
Thanks in advance :mrgreen:


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## paul_cymru (Mar 22, 2006)

From another post, I think we'll need these:

N 102 683 04 x 2 (dogbone to chassis)
N 905 970 05 x 1 (long bolt through dogbone to engine)
N 102 466 11 x 1 (short bolt through dogbone bracket to engine)


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

Thanks for that will probably have to order from the dealers can't seem to find a uk supplier who has them :?

Found this good fitting guide though

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a4/dogbone-mount-VW-Golf.htm

Will have another look for those bolts now I have the part numbers :wink: cheers


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## stewbieTT (Jun 23, 2012)

Nick 225TT said:


> Thanks for that will probably have to order from the dealers can't seem to find a uk supplier who has them :?
> 
> Found this good fitting guide though
> 
> ...


Try TPS for the bolts

http://www.thetradepartsspecialists.co.uk/


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

Thanks for the info however TPS is trade only so I can't use it


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

paul_cymru said:


> From another post, I think we'll need these:
> 
> N 102 683 04 x 2 (dogbone to chassis)
> N 905 970 05 x 1 (long bolt through dogbone to engine)
> N 102 466 11 x 1 (short bolt through dogbone bracket to engine)


Thanks for the info I will order them from my local Audi dealer 
I have ordered a red Tdi bush kit :mrgreen:


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## stewbieTT (Jun 23, 2012)

Nick 225TT said:


> Thanks for the info however TPS is trade only so I can't use it


Give your local TPS a ring and see if they deal with the public - most of them do! 
My local one is very helpful and get most parts in within 24hrs if they're not in stock, and always give me a ring when they're in. Much, much better than the dealers.


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

Got them on order from my dealers now it's only a few miles down the road
I can make a slight detour on my way to town it's not a problem
For the sum of £4.34 in total  
Breakdown is

VN 102 683 04 bolt x 2 = 0.58 each 
VN 905 970 05 bolt x 1 = 1.08 each
VN 102 466 11 bolt x 1 = 1.38 each

So in this case the stealers price is ok :wink:

With the red tdi bushes ordered from here it mentions Audi tt 225 in the listing so they are the correct ones :wink:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160778477248

The total with the bolts and the dogbone bushes is around the £25 mark so it almost qualifies as a cheap mod  
If you go for the harder yellow bushes it's slightly cheaper I think 8)

I will do my ushally photo heavy post of the fitting when all the bits have arrived 

On my other main post and here [smiley=gossip.gif] :roll:


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## dunsmod (Sep 6, 2005)

Another good guide...........http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/394279.aspx


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## ian222 (May 4, 2007)

This looks interesting, but why not get a new standard bush?


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

Normal rubber deteriorates and goes a squidgy after time however polyurethane does not its molecular structure remains constant for much longer so it's more durable for suspension parts and bushes and it's firmer too that's the point to stop the engine moving about so much


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## TT-TOM (Feb 15, 2012)

I've noticed recently that when changing up from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd its quite hard to get a smooth seamless gear change so I think I might give this a go see if it perks things up a bit.


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## lordlee (Jun 20, 2012)

That's very similar to what I was finding. After driving a friends TT it was clear something was up so I tried the dog bone mount and hey presto every change is better and the whole drive train feels tighter. Well worth the small outlay.


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## stuptt225 (Dec 15, 2010)

Having tried both yellow petrol and red diesel powerflex versions the red one is best in my opinion as its just as solid, giving the impression of better throttle response and smoother gear changes but without the annoying vibration. There was a vid on youtube showing the dogbone movement comparison of the different types when fitted, emphasising the OEM one is very slack in comparison with the powerflex.


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## TT-TOM (Feb 15, 2012)

I think i'll order the red diesel one then.

Probably re-use my old bolts as well for now, I'm not driving to my local stealers for a few quids worth of bolts.


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## lordlee (Jun 20, 2012)

The red one is definitely the one to have.


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

TT-TOM said:


> I think i'll order the red diesel one then.
> 
> Probably re-use my old bolts as well for now, I'm not driving to my local stealers for a few quids worth of bolts.


And risk your engine dropping over £4 worth of bolts 

Even the Bentley manual states use once only for those bolts just not worth the risk imo :!:


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## dunsmod (Sep 6, 2005)

http://www.awesomegti.com/car/audi/tt8n/ecs-ultimate-dogbone-mount-kit-golf-mk4-bora
Just wondered if anyones got a view on this baby. It seems quite good value for money as it also has a new small bush fitted which needs pressed in and costs about £20 if fitting individual bushes and includes new bolts. :roll:


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

dunsmod said:


> http://www.awesomegti.com/car/audi/tt8n/ecs-ultimate-dogbone-mount-kit-golf-mk4-bora
> Just wondered if anyones got a view on this baby. It seems quite good value for money as it also has a new small bush fitted which needs pressed in and costs about £20 if fitting individual bushes and includes new bolts. :roll:


£71.99 so I don't know where you got £20 from :? 
If it was £20 I would have gone that way in a heartbeat


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## dunsmod (Sep 6, 2005)

Sorry for bad english! What I meant was £20 for the cost of new small bush which most people dont change. which would mean if replacing all bushes on the dogbone would come to approx £40 as opposed to all new bone for £70 inc new bolts.  
Awesome told me dont bother with small bush unless the existing one is damaged .


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

Not taken mine out yet so I don't know about the small bush yet but if it is damaged I will replace it
Still waiting on Audi for the bolts & eBay for the bush kit but will do a full update with photos of my fitting 
When they arrive :wink:


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Nick 225TT said:


> dunsmod said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.awesomegti.com/car/audi/tt8n/ecs-ultimate-dogbone-mount-kit-golf-mk4-bora
> ...


That is just a standard Audi dog bone mount with the uprated poly bush fitted you can but the poly bush on its own and swap it for the old rubber bush in your old mount poly bush costs about £20 and takes about 5 mins extra to change


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

today all my parts arrived today so have fitted them








Started by jacking the car up high and putting it on two stands on the front sub frame








Then removed the engine under tray








Then you can see the dogbone mount location








Next removed the rear small bolts 13mm socket








Then placed a trolley jack under the gearbox and raised it till it just moved the gearbox








Then removed the two larger bolts 16mm socket and the mount just pulled out








Original mount with old rubbers in








Then put it in a small vice to remove the long bolt








Dogbone taken apart








Evidence of rubbing inside the alloy casing








I removed all traces of the old rubber with a brass wire brush on a drill








Then used thinners to remove the final traces
Comparing the old and new parts








Put a thin layer of the supplied copper grease / lube on all contact areas








Put the parts together by pressing on the garage door frame to get the bolt to start








Then torque down to 55nm as recommended








Dogbone with new bushes in ready to fit :!: 








Then bolted in place 2 small bolts first torque to 20nm then 90 degrees








Then the two lower bolts torque to 40nm then 90 degrees








Finally put the engine under tray back on job done








Test drove the car out and yes it feels better tighter and gear changes are smother
There is a slight vibration of the wheel at tick over but this is minor and the benefits outweigh this
There is a running in period so they should settle down after time


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## JS53MES (Apr 11, 2012)

Nick 225TT said:


> today all my parts arrived today so have fitted them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice work Nick, looks well done and by the sounds of it well worth it too. Mine arrived today but i need to get the bolts from audi first before i can go ahead with fitting it


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## merlin c (Jan 25, 2012)

Good work Nick, My TT is having the once over at Midlands VW Saturday morning so I'll try and get nmine done then, they arrived in the post thismorning.


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

took around an hour and a half but I was not rushing anything it was well worth the £25 outlay I would say
driven car a bit more now and the benifit is noticable 
think I will get a short shifter kit next :mrgreen:
just missed the rain again merlin


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Nick 225TT said:


> took around an hour and a half but I was not rushing anything it was well worth the £25 outlay I would say
> driven car a bit more now and the benifit is noticable
> think I will get a short shifter kit next :mrgreen:
> just missed the rain again merlin


If you like the dog bone mount you will love the short shift get the Forge big knob to go with it


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

YELLOW_TT said:


> Nick 225TT said:
> 
> 
> > took around an hour and a half but I was not rushing anything it was well worth the £25 outlay I would say
> ...


hey yellow you must have missed my post on knobs :mrgreen: 
I made my own big knob :roll:










but thats another story

http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=285199&start=15


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## merlin c (Jan 25, 2012)

WOW!!  .........Is that your very own hand made big knob Nick? nice [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

yep did it a month or so ago got used to it now even the wife likes the big knob  
its holding up pretty well did about 10 coats of clearcoat on it and its stayed shiny
photo taken just now ...








only slight issue is it can get chilly on a cold day to hold :wink:

Yes they have great service at midland VW I used them to have my cambelt / waterpump done when I got the car


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## xiphon (Dec 8, 2011)

Excuse my ignorance, but what's the purpose of the Dog Bone, and in what way would I notice the mod/uprated parts?

Thanks to the clear instructions and photos above, shouldn't be too difficult to change...


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

The engine weight rests on 2 engine mounts. One is on the transmission and the other is under the power steering reservoir. The 3rd engine mount, the pendulum mount, aka, dogbone mount, lets the engine rotate a little bit while holding it steady. You replace the dogbone to reduce wheel hop . A stiffer dogbone mount will reduce engine movement. The downside is that siffer engine mount WILL transmit more vibration and noise to the cabin. As my old rubber mounts were worn anyway it was creating a delay on the power delivery to the wheels fitting the polymount has made the car feel more responsive as the engine power goes to the road wheels faster rather than squashing the rubber in the mount first and then going to the wheels.
the red powerflex bushes are a little softer than the yellow ones so give a near oem feel but don't squash to easy so the power is fed to the wheels quicker you can notice especially if your old mounts are worn hope this explains it better 

if you want a car with a soft insulated feel then stick with oem

The red TDI ones are a good compromise they give near 
OEM vibration insulation however the power delivery is loads better no question


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## xiphon (Dec 8, 2011)

*@ Nick 225TT*

Now I understand, thanks for taking the time to type that


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

your mileage may vary if you swap your bushes but
in my case the mount rubbers were worn anyway so I could feel the engine moving
the red polyflex bushes will most likely last the life of the car so as the cost difference
compared to oem is so minimal it was a no brainer for me to do the upgrade
If any other bushings fail I will replace with polyurethane every time plastics / rubber technology
has come a long way in the ten years since my car was made


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Nick 225TT said:


> yep did it a month or so ago got used to it now even the wife likes the big knob
> its holding up pretty well did about 10 coats of clearcoat on it and its stayed shiny
> photo taken just now ...
> 
> ...


That's a very big knob showoff :wink:


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## TT-TOM (Feb 15, 2012)

Nick 225TT said:


> your milage may vary if you swap your bushes but
> in my case the mount rubbers were worn anyway so I could feel the engine moving
> the red polyflex bushes will most likley last the life of the car so as the cost differnce
> compared to oem is so minimal it was a no brainer for me to do the upgrade
> ...


How many miles were on your bush when you changed it?

My TT is a 53 with 65K on it and from rocking the engine with my hand it feels pretty firm TBH but for the money i'm going to change it anyway see if it perks the old girl up a bit.


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

I just hit 80k a couple of hundred miles ago
I am loving the power delivery now as its
Much more instant I even heard a slight
Tire screech pulling away from the lights  
It makes a massive difference


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## dunsmod (Sep 6, 2005)

Fitted my red bushes this morning and I am absolutely gobsmaccked at the difference ....less vibrating along exhaust, and drives now like a much newer car. My bushes were original and 12yrs old with 110,000 miles.


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## TT-TOM (Feb 15, 2012)

I wish I could fit mine but bank holiday weekend has screwed everything up and my bolts won't be in stock until Wednesday apparently :x


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## lordlee (Jun 20, 2012)

dunsmod said:


> Fitted my red bushes this morning and I am absolutely gobsmaccked at the difference ....less vibrating along exhaust, and drives now like a much newer car. My bushes were original and 12yrs old with 110,000 miles.


Pretty much sums up my feelings when I first drove the car. It all feels much tighter and the drivetrain loses its slack.


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## Nick 225TT (Jun 6, 2008)

dunsmod said:


> Fitted my red bushes this morning and I am absolutely gobsmaccked at the difference ....less vibrating along exhaust, and drives now like a much newer car. My bushes were original and 12yrs old with 110,000 miles.


Yep probably the most bang for the buck if your 
old bushes are cream crackered :wink: 
Very well worth doing :roll:
And even if hey are just a bit worn you will still notice the difference 8)


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## Garth (Feb 7, 2012)

TT-TOM said:


> I wish I could fit mine but bank holiday weekend has screwed everything up and my bolts won't be in stock until Wednesday apparently :x


Exactly the same as me! I've had my bushes for a while but my bolts won't be at Audi til weds 
I could blame my wife for not going to order them sooner... But that would be mean


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## TT-TOM (Feb 15, 2012)

Garth said:


> TT-TOM said:
> 
> 
> > I wish I could fit mine but bank holiday weekend has screwed everything up and my bolts won't be in stock until Wednesday apparently :x
> ...


I have replaced similar mounts before on VAG cars and used the same bolts with no problems (mainly because I didn't know they were one use only) I work with nuts, bolts and other fastenings on a daily basis so deep down I know there's is very very little chance of them shearing, especially with the size of them and the forces involved.

I know the previous owner had the cambelt done on my TT at Audi and even though the bolts on the engine mount are supposed to be replaced there isn't any on the invoice.

But then I thought I wouldn't tempt fate and just ordered the bolts.


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## Charlesuk (Mar 12, 2012)

right im gunna jump on the dog n bone band wagon

in this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/POWERFLEX-GOL ... 580wt_1166

do you get both of the red bits?

pretty sure mine is going to be 124k miles old


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## cookbot (Apr 19, 2011)

Charlesuk said:


> right im gunna jump on the dog n bone band wagon
> 
> in this
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/POWERFLEX-GOL ... 580wt_1166
> ...


That's the one I ordered, but I'm now doing the roll bars and probably this 'defcon' thing if my car has the new style arms. I'm also thinking of changing the Front Steering Rack Mounting Bush to poly too, but not really heard if it's worth it.


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## apj (May 31, 2012)

Just fitted new red powerflex bushes to my TTR with 108K on the clock. The old bushes were at least 1cm shorter (more compressed) than the new ones which meant the gearbox was sitting 1cm further back in the car. I had to lever the gearbox back on the jack with a short piece of timber to get the two bolts to line up with the gearbox mountings.

No vibration in the car so far and after a quick trial the shift between 1st and 2nd gears is vastly improved so an excellent £24 mod in my book.


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## cookbot (Apr 19, 2011)

Tried changing mine while it was up on jacks, but the 2 bolts that go into the subframe sheered off like cheese, so now have to probably drop the lot the drill and re tap some threads - what a ball ache!


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## TT-TOM (Feb 15, 2012)

Got mine fitted yesterday. Old bushes weren't too bad but they had gone a little soft and gooey.

Noticed a definite improvement in the gear changes. There is a little vibration through the steering wheel when sat the lights but apart from that they are spot on.


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## cookbot (Apr 19, 2011)

As thought, the subframe had to be dropped and drilled to get the old bolts out. Thought I'd fit the superpro sterring rack bush and r32 front arb/poly bushs while I was at it too. Didn't have time to change the rear so that's still stock until tomorrow night. The handling will be interesting, that's for sure!


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## ian222 (May 4, 2007)

Just ordered the red kit, hope the vibration is like oem as stated.


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## JS53MES (Apr 11, 2012)

ian222 said:


> Just ordered the red kit, hope the vibration is like oem as stated.


I fitted the red kit and i'm getting quite a bad vibration but i dont mind it


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## TT-TOM (Feb 15, 2012)

ian222 said:


> Just ordered the red kit, hope the vibration is like oem as stated.


You will get more vibration than the OEM bush I would say, but its only noticeable at tick over. Its a bit like having an old TDi lump in the front :roll: Just a bit of vibration on the wheel to massage your hands


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## ian222 (May 4, 2007)

Ok well, i will fit and if its not good then i can put new oem back in.


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## TalibEstates (Apr 10, 2008)

Hi just fitted my red ones.

What a difference.

Anybody else notice there exhaust sitting further out?

It looks like my is sticking out a bit.


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## marknjayne (Jun 15, 2012)

just fitted the yellow,nice mod,does give more vibration but a much more solid feel,pro's outweigh the cons IMO


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## ian222 (May 4, 2007)

Fitted the red ones, noticed nothing at all.


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## nilrem (Sep 9, 2011)

Shame we didnt do a group buy on this chaps [smiley=gossip.gif]


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## stewbieTT (Jun 23, 2012)

I fitted the red ones last weekend whilst I had the car on stands after doing my wishbone bushes.

To be honest I got a fair bit of vibration when I took it for a test drive afterwards and on the way to work on the Monday, and was a bit disappointed, although it does improve the slop in the drivetrain massively. However having had the car parked up for a week it was much, much better when I took it out yesterday and by today is pretty much back to stock vibration levels but still keeping the increased tightness. Would recommend this mod now


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## TT-TOM (Feb 15, 2012)

At the end of the day you can always get stock bushes if you don't want the vibration. The only reason the red or yellow bush makes a massive difference is when the stock bushes are well worn.

If there was nothing wrong with your old ones then fitting red or yellow bushes will probably make no noticeable diference apart from the extra vibration.


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## Danny Wilde (Jul 19, 2012)

Maybe a bit of a noob question, but does this mod apply to the V6 or just the 1.8 variants? If it does apply to the V6 is it likely to sort an occasional hesitance to engage 5th on the 4th to 5th shift (manual box)?


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## nilrem (Sep 9, 2011)

Can anyone remember what they torqued the bolt that goes through the bush up to ?

Doing mine this weekend and cant find a reference for it

Cheers


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## t'mill (Jul 31, 2012)

I fitted the red ones and noticed no vibration. Didn't notice any improvement either, but the original bushes were in good nick. For the price of the red ones (£21.55) it's worth doing anyway I feel, as the oem bushes will only deteriorate.


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