# Le Mans....and the French Police!!



## t2dav (Sep 11, 2002)

Had a fantastic time in Le Mans    - at least the weather held out this year unlike 2001! Was all brilliant apart from yesterday morning!!!...... :'( :'( :'(

the french police were hiding in trees about 5 miles from Dieppe port and apparently clocked me at 172kmh - showed me no evidence but demanded I paid over 750 euros and banned me for the day!!! The only benefit was that I had a police escort to a cash point and back to the station and they didn't keep my licence - bummer though!! Anyone have any advice on how I could dispute this??? I had to pay at the time or miss my ferry home as they would not let me get back in the car until I paid up!

the french police were gunning for the Brits and had set up a make-shift speed trap around Bernay - only problem was that they didn;t have a radar!!! they were just randomly pulling people over and fining them 90 euros!! gits!


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## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

French *****! So they just guessed your speed?????


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## t2dav (Sep 11, 2002)

yep! it looks like they did! they had no radar gun and me and my mate were doing the same speed in the same cars (both 225ttc) but he got done for 90 euros and me for 750!!


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## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

Hope you took their details. Did you get a receipt? All seems a bit dodgy to me, im sure it wouldnt stand up in any court...


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## t2dav (Sep 11, 2002)

I've got a rerceipt but what am I supposed to do - I cannot speak French and they cannot speak english!

I was thinking of writing but I do not know where to start!! any ideas?


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## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

Interesting issue. If your a AA or RAC member ring up for some legal advice. If not try Citizens advice?


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## t2dav (Sep 11, 2002)

cheers! will try calling tonight to see what the AA say!


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## vernan (May 27, 2002)

See my thread on the off-topic board and Zaika's reply.

I rang the RAC and they said pay up - they're within their rights to do this.

Looks like a lot of us were caught this year.........

Still, I guess you, like me, were speeding, so take it on the chin


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## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

Hang on vernon. How do you know he was speeding? Wheres the proof? You cant just assume that someone was speeding you need proof.

I assume you murdered someone sir...?


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## r1 (Oct 31, 2002)

> Hang on vernon. How do you know he was speeding? Wheres the proof? You cant just assume that someone was speeding you need proof.
> 
> I assume you murdered someone sir...?


Do you think he wasn't? Nice weather...Le Mans....TT...no denail in the origianl post. Get down off your morally correct horse.


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## mav (Jan 9, 2003)

Hi T2 DAV

I speak fluent French and am a solicitor so I'd be happy to help..... HOWEVER....

....my experience of French bureaucracy is that you should avoid it like the plague (I lived there for 2 years) - its like trying to swim in treacle dealing with the buggers and will cost you more than your fine trying to get the money back.... French legal system... appeals etc...

that said, and if your facts are absolutely correct, it does seem like you've been treated unfairly...

a TT owner friend of mine got a 90 euro fine for doing 176kph recently and apparently the gendarme said that if he had been clocked at 178kph or above it would have been 750euros and a ban.

it sounds like they've over-penalised you at that speed.... ie 172kph

I would be very surprised if they did not have a radar - how can they say "172kph" without a radar?? - if they deffo did not have any way of measuring your speed, then you could appeal....

but as I said at the beginning, this is a non-starter in France...

happy to translate your ticket for your though if you like... just to see what they said about the incident...

Mav


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## scotty26 (Apr 4, 2003)

This sounds absurd - surely this cannot be the right way of doing things ???


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## bluenose (Aug 7, 2002)

> This sounds absurd - surely this cannot be the right way of doing things Â ???


I work for a French company, this is the norm...bureaucracy, politics and red tape are part of the game....of stopping you doing what is right... :-[


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## scotty26 (Apr 4, 2003)

In that case then I have no plans to ever drive over there in the TT. What is stopping them pulling you in at 50KPH and accuse you of doing 120 etc. and then issuing you with an on the spot fine.

Seems incredible that they can do this without any proof and even more so that if it happens you can do nothing about it. :-/


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## tt500 (Nov 29, 2002)

That's just TYPICAL OF THE FRENCH. Fu**ing criminal.

I'm driving down to the South France next weekend for a wedding, but after reading this I've just booked a flight on Ryanair.com.... 27p flights at the moment. So thanks for this thread.

Good luck with your compensation.BTW


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2003)

Sounds like the only possible means of detection was gool old fashioned STOPWATCH.

SPEED=DISTANCE/TIME

So, assuming (fairly big assumption may be) that they had observed you over some known/previously measured distance (road markings, shadow from overbridges etc etc) then all they have to do is to just time you manually with a stopwatch, do a sum or look at a pre-calculated chart and VOILA ('scuse pun!!).

Of course, the observer doesn't necessarily have to be the person you spoke to, or indeed in the area you were recorded. Could be that the stopping point was the first natural slowing down area after the scene of the incident. The observer could merely have radio'd the information ahead.

What you haven't yet said is......were you actually doing that kind of speed anywhere prior to the stop?? Could they actually be correct??

In any case.....to not tell you where "the evidence" is, or the "context" of the evidence is fundamentaly wrong.

Personally, I'd have wanted to see the evidence.


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## t2dav (Sep 11, 2002)

i asked to see the evidence but they said no and just wrote my speed on a piece of paper because they said i was +50kmh over the speed limit the fine was 750. I had no choice to pay because they would not let me get back into my car!!!


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## t2dav (Sep 11, 2002)

Mav - you have IM


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2003)

> i asked to see the evidence but they said no and just wrote my speed on a piece of paper because they said i was +50kmh over the speed limit the fine was 750. Â I had no choice to pay because they would not let me get back into my car!!!


In view of this....I am shocked 

I would not believe (but I have no knowledge) that the French system could be so far adrift of ours. How can the Police Officer at the roadside be both Judge and jury???
Surely, as in this country, they must give you the option to "plead" to their evidence, or to have it heard, tried an tested, indepedently in a court of law??

Have you spoken to anyone, government based may be, in an official capacity, relating to the way in which you were treated??

Might be worth trying to route out someone in "power" to make an official BRITISH complaint about the manner in which multiple British Citizens were treated.

If the Police did indeed act outside of their powers, then some form on recompence may be available.....including potentially your money back...just a thought.

May be the Minster Of Transport secretary would be a good place to start, after identifying a few other "victims" through this or other websites.

Of course...there is always WATCHDOG...they love a good story to get their teeth into....especially where the French are concerned.

GOOD LUCK.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2003)

oh yeah.....

did you get given a receipt out of interest??


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## t2dav (Sep 11, 2002)

> oh yeah.....
> 
> did you get given a receipt out of interest??


yes I was given a receipt which seems to be authentic - so it does not look like they put the money straight into their drinking kitty!


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## t2dav (Sep 11, 2002)

> See my thread on the off-topic board and Zaika's reply.
> 
> I rang the RAC and they said pay up - they're within their rights to do this........


Vernan - tried to find your thread but have had no luck - any chance of forwarding the link?

cheers


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## andya (Jun 17, 2003)

> Vernan - tried to find your thread but have had no luck - any chance of forwarding the link?
> 
> cheers


Just forwarded a link to Vernon's thread to your work email.
I think you should quit wingeing 
Teach you to zoom past me....


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## Monique (Jun 11, 2002)

Hello T2DAV,

I, like Mav, lived in France for some time.

Mav's advice should be fully accepted: the French bureaucracy must be avoided at all costs! More than 40% of the working people have a government job!!

Though you could challenge the system, your time and costs will exceed the rewards.

At 172 kmh, in the UK, you would have been banned. Count yourself lucky... sort of IMO :-/


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## SMUDGER (May 17, 2003)

ask yourself how much the gendame get paid!!!!!
you can guess the rest......its rife!!!! ???


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## t2dav (Sep 11, 2002)

I guess I'll just have to find the back roads to and from Le Mans next year!


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## domino (Aug 29, 2002)

I once read in the Telegraph a letter from a woman who got done for speeding near to one of the northern ports in France. She claimed this was a travesty as she never exceeded the speed limit and sent a copy of the ticket with her letter of complaint to the appropriate authority. Turned out that the copper hadn't processed the ticket and had pocketed the cash. Result: one unemployed copper.

I personally got back from Le Mans without a stain on my character.


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## sTTu (May 7, 2002)

> Had a fantastic time in Le Mans Â    - at least the weather held out this year unlike 2001! Â Was all brilliant apart from yesterday morning!!!...... :'( :'( :'(
> 
> the french police were hiding in trees about 5 miles from Dieppe port and apparently clocked me at 172kmh - showed me no evidence but demanded I paid over 750 euros and banned me for the day!!! Â The only benefit was that I had a police escort to a cash point and back to the station and they didn't keep my licence - bummer though!! Â Anyone have any advice on how I could dispute this??? Â I had to pay at the time or miss my ferry home as they would not let me get back in the car until I paid up!
> 
> the french police were gunning for the Brits and had set up a make-shift speed trap around Bernay - only problem was that they didn;t have a radar!!! Â they were just randomly pulling people over and fining them 90 euros!! gits!


The French are a bunch of pikeys ! Always have been always will be and they hate us !

F**k em !

sTTu


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

> The French are a bunch of pikeys ! Always have been always will be and they hate us !
> 
> F**k em !
> 
> sTTu


And a big welcome to our French friends who frequent the forum....!


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## CH_Peter (May 16, 2002)

I had a great time at the TT meet in France 2 weeks ago. Wonder how I managed that if all the French are wankers? Everyone was nice, and I don't speak a word of French. Well, maybe it didn't happen, and I'm just going mad...


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2003)

I got caught at 181 km/h near Bethune not too far from Calais on the way to catch the boat a few years ago. I was got by what i think was a laser speed trap from the back of a dark green laguna estate. Fortunately they adjusted the speed to 171 km/h so that instead of the large fine of 5000 francs or so I got away with 900 francs. They told me that I was lucky I wasn't going a bit faster or it would have been the higher fine. I wasn't going to argue since I had been going a fair bit faster than this as the road was rather empty. The police were quite polite, maybe good that I am able to speak a fair bit of french but I still got a free ride to the bank machine in a police car.

I thought this was the end of the story and 7 or 8 months later chucked the receipt and paperwork away... big mistake :-[. Soon after this I got a recorded delivery letter to the UK with details of the offence and the amount I needed to pay. It had a big red stamp on it to the effect that I had paid on the date of the offence, so after worrying a little about why they had bothered to send it in the first place I decided that it was just another reciept.

A few months later comes a final demand for the money, so I called them up and explained, it took rather a while. Of course they wanted the reciept which I didn't have. Fortunately I was able to fax them the first letter they had sent, without this I would have been in real trouble.
I haven't heard anymore but I am a little worried about the next time I venture into france with the car.

So the moral of the story... hang on to any paperwork you get for a very long time!


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

I'm so glad that Stu and I stuck to all of the speed limits, thereby avoiding the risk of getting pulled over. I'd been pre-warned that Le Mans is a big pay day for the French police and sure enough they were camped out on the main 'N' roads. I prefer 'D' roads every time - just watch your speed in the villages.


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## justinp (May 7, 2002)

Its not all French that are wankers, from my trip to lemans this year I have found its

1) The French police that only target Engish cars 
2) The French thieving pikies that nick what ever they can from the lemans campsites.
3) The French C*nt in charge of the vehicle recovery firm near lemans that when I questioned him about the price of a fan belt for my brothers TVR Chimaera, then refused to serve me. And left us stranded for 5 hours
4) The lying French vehicle recover help desk in Paris, which said the recover vehicle would be there in 15 minutes every time I called.
5) The French Hotel that only left out 3 keys for the 4 rooms we had paid for.
6) The French twats in the super market that held us up for 40 minutes after we had paid by credit card for Â£30.00 beer. 
7) The Fucking French petrol stations that only except French cards and donâ€™t even except cash.

I did meet 1 nice French person, that offered me his credit card to fill my car up in exchange for the cash.

So I reckon about 98% of the French are wankers.

I have been to lemans many times, but this will be the last time I dirty my feet in that shity 3rd world cuntry.

Maybe it is the post Iraq war backlash

Cheers

JustinP


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## sTTu (May 7, 2002)

> Its not all French that are wankers, from my trip to lemans this year I have found its
> 
> 1) Â Â Â The French police that only target Engish cars
> 2) Â Â Â The French thieving pikies that nick what ever they can from the lemans campsites.
> ...


Now that just what I said !!! 

sTTu


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Well if I get told of for swearing in here, I can only assumed you are gonna get a wrist slap too 

I'm sure a heap of "report posts" have already been sent off...

*grin*


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## t2dav (Sep 11, 2002)

just airing his views - i guess!

after receiving this extortionate fine - i'm tending to agree with the point about the Police!!


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## t2dav (Sep 11, 2002)

Mav - you have IM


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## t2dav (Sep 11, 2002)

mav you have IM


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## boogerttman (Nov 27, 2003)

Thanks all, I'm driving through France to go to Spain tomorrow!! :'(

A nice shiny 3.2 for the french police to pull over.

All advice given on this topic has been printed off for reference!!


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## t7 (Nov 2, 2002)

Guys given this one has risen back to the top I'm going to move it over to flame where it probably should have been all along.

L


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## t2dav (Sep 11, 2002)

this thread was about information on driving fines in France - not really a flame room topic as not much flaming (if any) in the thread! ???


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## t7 (Nov 2, 2002)

T2DAV - you have IM. Hope that answers any concerns you have.

In summary I agree your original post was not at all flaming (although strictly speaking Off Topic ), however subsequent posts were.

Louise


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

It is funny that so many people complain about French police. If you find that they are out to get you then avoid driving to France and catch a plain next time. Especially as you can't argue your case as you don't speak French, don't ever set foot in this country and have your holidays in the UK. Protest this way and make the French pay for being nasty to you and speak funny French language that you don't understand. 

As if in Britain the police or the speed cameras are any better. :


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## ttimp (Jul 9, 2003)

I actually found the French cops couldn't have been any more helpful - but then again as I was about to swell their Christmas drinks fund by 750 euros (cash) you would probably expect that!


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## vernan (May 27, 2002)

Just a footnote to all this. I got 300euros back, as they commuted my fine to 450euros ;D ;D


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Once I was stopped by the Dutch police as I was speeding from the German to the Dutch border. The police bike stopped me and took me to the parking lot where they had police vans. They checked my passport and they told me that I was driving too fast in the border that has for some strange reason a 60kph limit. I apologised and I said that I didn't realise I was at this point and they let me go.

I don't know if it is that the Dutch police is always nice or if they were nice as it was the 1st January.


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