# Turbo Upgrade



## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi,

I have just purchased a hybrid K04 turbo for my car, this is a straight replacement for the standard turbo. I plan to add a JBS equal length manifold and sports cats at a later date. So for now would be running with the standard exhaust manifold and cats but with a Milltek system. I am after some advice on replacing the injectors, could I run with standard injectors or would I eventually need to upgrade? I have seen 475cc injectors mentioned, would over specification cause issues (I'm assuming the ECU will only inject the fuel needed, even if using larger injectors) I'm planning to get Custom Code to map the car and I'm not after big turbo power gains, hopefully would get around the 310 Mark. The kit i've ordered comes in at around Â£990, so even with the manifold, cats and remap it should work out to be a reasonable price. I should be able to keep all the original pipe work aswell so will look standard.

Regards,

John.

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merch ... Code=VVWTK


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## conlechi (May 6, 2006)

Hi , whats been done to the K04 to improve it on standard

Mark


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## Stub (Mar 17, 2005)

JohnD said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have just purchased a hybrid K04 turbo for my car, this is a straight replacement for the standard turbo. I plan to add a JBS equal length manifold and sports cats at a later date. So for now would be running with the standard exhaust manifold and cats but with a Milltek system. I am after some advice on replacing the injectors, could I run with standard injectors or would I eventually need to upgrade? I have seen 475cc injectors mentioned, would over specification cause issues (I'm assuming the ECU will only inject the fuel needed, even if using larger injectors) I'm planning to get Custom Code to map the car and I'm not after big turbo power gains, hopefully would get around the 310 Mark. The kit i've ordered comes in at around Â£990, so even with the manifold, cats and remap it should work out to be a reasonable price. I should be able to keep all the original pipe work aswell so will look standard.
> 
> ...


  I want a hybrid to, if you get the hybrid KO4 turbo working ok im getting one to copy! I was getting much the same as you JBS where looking at a hybrid for me and they where going to fit their equal length manifold, I ordered brakes, manifold and cc2 but they are having trouble with their flanges... what ever they are??? Your upgrade route is right up my street fella, fair play , can I come see when its done ... pls pls?


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

Stub said:


> JBS where looking at a hybrid for me and they where going to fit their equal length manifold, I ordered brakes, manifold and cc2 but they are having trouble with their flanges...


i was at jbs on saturday and they showed me their ELM for a ko4 set up.said it took 6 months to develop  perhaps you should give them another call?


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## S10TYG (Mar 7, 2007)

Hello caney? Hows the car? Running okay now? cooling sorted? U goin castle coombe?


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## conlechi (May 6, 2006)

Missed link on the first post 

Interesting stuff


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

JohnD said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have just purchased a hybrid K04 turbo for my car, this is a straight replacement for the standard turbo. I plan to add a JBS equal length manifold and sports cats at a later date. So for now would be running with the standard exhaust manifold and cats but with a Milltek system. I am after some advice on replacing the injectors, could I run with standard injectors or would I eventually need to upgrade? I have seen 475cc injectors mentioned, would over specification cause issues (I'm assuming the ECU will only inject the fuel needed, even if using larger injectors) I'm planning to get Custom Code to map the car and I'm not after big turbo power gains, hopefully would get around the 310 Mark. The kit i've ordered comes in at around Â£990, so even with the manifold, cats and remap it should work out to be a reasonable price. I should be able to keep all the original pipe work aswell so will look standard.
> 
> ...


Is this hybrid KO4 simply a blue printed version of the standard KO4 or has something more radical been done to it?

Joe


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## Stub (Mar 17, 2005)

caney said:


> Stub said:
> 
> 
> > JBS where looking at a hybrid for me and they where going to fit their equal length manifold, I ordered brakes, manifold and cc2 but they are having trouble with their flanges...
> ...


Caney m8 they have developed it and it works but they are having trouble fitting it and the flanges need redoing, I waited 3 months with a deposit??? not unless they are lying but don't see why they would do that?

BTW S10TYG wtf do you have to spam every thead trying to push your tongue up caney and clive's arse? FFS Pm them and stop ruining threads?


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

Steady on Stu..

I take it your car is still slow :wink:


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## nikos525 (May 15, 2006)

This is the road i'm going down to  . You will need to run the bigger injectors to get the gains you need. You will also have to remap. I would invest in a downpipe and sports cats/or at least a 3" downpipe when you replace the turbo. I have spoken with the guys at ATP and although many poeple are going down the road of the equal length manifold, and it has many benifits, the guys at ATP have run numerous tests on the OEM manifold and have found it to be surprisingly good :? thats why they haven't developed one for the TTQ. They informed me that the gains at around the 310bhp mark you can stick with the OEM manifold and it will probably outlast a new equal length! I will be arranging my map either with the Mika kit that ATP offers or getting my ecu mapped by a different US company that have had good comments on many US sites, only problem is sending my ecu to them and the turn around time


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## Stub (Mar 17, 2005)

JAAYDE said:


> Steady on Stu..
> 
> I take it your car is still slow :wink:


 yer .... but mine wont blow up :lol:

Sorry few glasses of vino and I cant help it, but ffs that bloke has more spam than tesco!

The main reason i was looking at the hybrid K04 is that the results that the guy who JBS got the the results from, for the ELM dyno plot had a hybrid ( I read the seat forum) , I liked the look of the dyno plot, pulls hard all the way up, but they said they couldnâ€™t fit it as the last TT they fitted it to they had a mare and needed to rethink it?

I am set to spend the money on a re-spray now and up the engine next year, I still only want 300bhp, early pick up and strong all the way up.... oh and no engine explosions :lol:


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

Stub said:


> JAAYDE said:
> 
> 
> > Steady on Stu..
> ...


 :lol: you nutter

I know the feeling :?

My car is forever in and out the spray shop..

just need to stay on track :roll:


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi All,

This provoked some interest, I spoke to Mike at JBS and he said the ELM was being changed due to fitment issues on the TT. Interesting that the standard manifold is good for around 310, I only started looking at this option because I also spotted the seat forum article with the hybrid K04 and my manifold just gave up on me! Lasted 135k though and just had the engine rebuilt. I've ordered a standard one for now from Vagparts and I'm going to give that a whirl. I cant afford to go the APR downpipe and cats just yet. Custom code I believe will only charge a further percentage if you have a map tweaked later on. The manifold is coming this week and the turbo next week. I'm hoping I'll get it done in around 3 weeks depending when the mappers can book me in. I'm tempted to kill my credit card for the 3" downpipe and sports cats any ideas on cost? Still dont know what to do about the injectors, would standard be ok for 300 ish and would 475cc be OTT?

This ebay shop has good prices for injectors....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-475cc-Bosch-fu ... dZViewItem

Regards,

John.


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

I recon 440cc should be fine  and a 4 bar fpr and fuel pump..


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi Jaayde,

I was told the fuel pump on the 225 was rated for 4 bar, so all you need is the 4 bar fuel pressure regulator. Need to find out how accurate this info is??

Cheers,

John.


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi All,

Just found this on the ATP website...

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merch ... y_Code=BCS

It includes injectors and software, picture at the bottom looks like an ECU? I guess you are just buying the map software, I wonder whether you can upload from a laptop with the VAGCOM cable. I'll do some more digging!

Also had a look at their UK dealers, there is a company called VAGSPORT in Braintree a couple of miles from me. Looks like a private address though.

John.


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

JohnD said:


> Hi Jaayde,
> 
> I was told the fuel pump on the 225 was rated for 4 bar, so all you need is the 4 bar fuel pressure regulator. Need to find out how accurate this info is??
> 
> ...


I would still change it for a bosch (Â£130.00) unit just to be on the safe side, you don't want to run anything at its limit..


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## elrao (Apr 19, 2005)

Interesting read this, as I want more power from my TT, but the cost of a full big turbo conversion is a little more than I really want to spend. Like most others, 300BHP with a strong torque curve would do for me, so what do I need to make this happen?

- Hybrid Turbo on standard inlet manifold
- Larger 475cc Injectors 
- 4Bar fuel pump (I have a 4Bar FPR, fitted when I got Revo 2)
- 3" down Pipe
- Sports Cats (I have blue flame cats already)
- Re-map

I am guessing an FMIC would complement this well, but is not technically required for it?

Cheers


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

for 300bhp then the standard fuel pump and injectors will be fine.they wont be maxxed out at 300bhp


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## nikos525 (May 15, 2006)

elrao said:


> Interesting read this, as I want more power from my TT, but the cost of a full big turbo conversion is a little more than I really want to spend. Like most others, 300BHP with a strong torque curve would do for me, so what do I need to make this happen?
> 
> - Hybrid Turbo on standard inlet manifold
> - Larger 475cc Injectors
> ...


I've been reading up on this and making many phone calls to all over the place regarding this and those of us who dont want to run upto 350bhp and having everything running at its limit. Ideally the setup required to get around the 310bhp is:
As stated however you only need to run with 440cc injectors and a uprated fuel pump of course is a bonus- it can run with the standard fuel pump but if you dont like everything running at its limit then its worthwhile to change it. A FMIC is a bonus but not a requirement. Also with every bhp upgrade you have to think about handling and braking, no point having all the power if you can't control it!


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## elrao (Apr 19, 2005)

Yeah, I have spoken to Ed @ APS (who was reading this thread as I called him), am looking at doing this to my TT in the near future and am discussing the parts list with him to obtain 300-310BHP.

Including a Turbo from the US (I am off there on Monday), I think it is going to be about Â£2K in parts, waiting for a quote on the fitting!

Good thing is that the turbo is capable of 350BHP, so if you want to upgrade other bits in the future you can...then re-map to take advantage!


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi,

I rang ATP yesterday and the eliminator kit is on back order, expected in 3 weeks. So I'll have to be patient  ! 
Hope the weather holds out as I'll be doing the work outside, only a single garage. I'll have to set up a gazebo to work on it, halfords get away with it!
I'm replacing the manifold with a new one which has just arrived as mine is cracked, so hoping it's going to last until the kit arrives otherwise I'll have to strip it down twice. I'll keep you posted and the turbo kit came in at Â£990 inc shipping. So even if I get stung with VAT + Import duty should only add Â£200 to the total. I have been told that ATP know the tricks with exporting to Europe so we will see.

Regards,

John.


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

Sounds good..

Do you fancy installing my turbo kit seen as you are so close to me.. :roll:


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi,

Lets see if it works first! :lol: Could start a business, have to get a bigger gazebo!

John.


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## elrao (Apr 19, 2005)

Hi John,

Did your Hybrid arrive yet? I am also just down the road and I would be interested to see this in the flesh before I make any decision on which way to go with my car!

Rob


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## prt225TT (May 7, 2007)

How would you even start explaining all this work to your insurance companies? Do you wait till its time to renew so if they refuse or quote you :evil: you can look elsewhere?


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi All,

For those who have been following this, the turbo kit arrived a while ago. I was lucky and had no duty to pay! I started the installation last week but straight away hit a problem trying to separate the original turbo from the manifold to remove it! To cut a long story short I had to get my local garage to carry on with the removal as it required dropping the subframe and various other bits. I don't have the facilities at home for major work and the weather's getting worse  
Anyway the kit is going on today, we have come across a snag as the eliminator kit doesn't have provision for the exhaust gas temp sensor found on the K04. I have mailed ATP turbo in the states to find the solution. I presume it's a safety feature to feed back to the ECU if you are frying your turbo! After speaking to another provider of big turbo kits, they fit the sensor at the top of the down pipe as close to the turbo as possible. This would require welding an adapter to the downpipe which isn't an major issue. The kit is excellent quality, with all the gaskets, pipes and new studs you require. I will keep you posted this week as to the hardware install, I will then need to get the car mapped asap. If everything is successful then it's the 3" downpipe and cat. We are hoping it will reach the 310/320 mark. ATP tested the standard manifold to these power levels.

Thanks,

John


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

prt225TT said:


> How would you even start explaining all this work to your insurance companies? Do you wait till its time to renew so if they refuse or quote you :evil: you can look elsewhere?


You have to tell them before you put it on the road....


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## elrao (Apr 19, 2005)

JohnD said:


> Hi All,
> 
> For those who have been following this, the turbo kit arrived a while ago. I was lucky and had no duty to pay! I started the installation last week but straight away hit a problem trying to separate the original turbo from the manifold to remove it! To cut a long story short I had to get my local garage to carry on with the removal as it required dropping the subframe and various other bits. I don't have the facilities at home for major work and the weather's getting worse
> Anyway the kit is going on today, we have come across a snag as the eliminator kit doesn't have provision for the exhaust gas temp sensor found on the K04. I have mailed ATP turbo in the states to find the solution. I presume it's a safety feature to feed back to the ECU if you are frying your turbo! After speaking to another provider of big turbo kits, they fit the sensor at the top of the down pipe as close to the turbo as possible. This would require welding an adapter to the downpipe which isn't an major issue. The kit is excellent quality, with all the gaskets, pipes and new studs you require. I will keep you posted this week as to the hardware install, I will then need to get the car mapped asap. If everything is successful then it's the 3" downpipe and cat. We are hoping it will reach the 310/320 mark. ATP tested the standard manifold to these power levels.
> ...


Thanks for the update John, I am watching this closely and hope there will be a full right up of the parts required etc. when you are done!

If it comes in at a reasonable price then i may do this as an alternate to a 350HP IHI setup (which is the current front runner for me).


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## nikos525 (May 15, 2006)

I'd be interested in this too as I recently spoke to a friend who fitted the eliminator kit to his Golf, and has to replace the Garett turbo twice  But he said that he had the IHI kit for over 2 years without a single problem :?


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi All,

I spoke with ATP today and the exhasut gas temp sensor doesn't need to be installed. This makes life easier, the fouling of the heat shield I mentioned earlier is in fact just the bracket the holds the turbo charge pipe above the manifold. This can be trmmed slightly as ATP had to do this on the developement car. I am beginning to think there should have been some instructions supplied! There are install docs on their website but not for this kit. Anyway the niggles are now solved so I'm hoping it will be on schedule for the end of the week.

Thanks,

John.


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

TTCool said:


> JohnD said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


Sorry to bump this question..Is this Hybrid KO4 simply a blue printed version of the standard KO4 or has something more radical been done to it? I am interested in more power but no more than 300bhp. Does the fitment of the Hybrid K04 alone give this?

Joe


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## elrao (Apr 19, 2005)

I am sure John will answer in full with what was needed, but I was advised that as well as the turbo you would need bigger injectors and a few other bits and pieces to get the most out of the Hybrid.

Including fitting and mapping etc. it wasn't far short of Jabba's IHI kit or Backdraft's Garrett kit, both which give you 350BHP....hence why I am waiting to hear what John has done, exactly what parts were required etc!


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## Stub (Mar 17, 2005)

any news on this?


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi All,

Just to give you an update, the Turbo has been fitted without any problems. I have been waiting on a 3" downpipe and sports Cat. This arrived last week so I'm hoping everything will be bolted back together by the end of the week. I will then have to wait until the week after to get it mapped due to work which is a pain! I am probably going to use p-torque in the Midlands, they will do a custom map and also remove my Superchip. This was back in the day when they had to be soldered in! A chip with a standard map will replace it as the baseline for the Custom map.

The 3" downpipe and cat is from pipewerx http://www.pipewerx.com which was founded by some blueflame Engineers. It came in at Â£662 inc delivery and the turnaround was quick ordered on Tuesday arrived on Friday. These are made to order, and the quality is very good, I did originally find this on their Ebay Site for Â£680 + Â£12 delivery. But got the price of Â£662 inc delivery over the phone. Maybe the Ebay price is to cover the paypal charges.



















So far I have spent..

Â£950 on the Turbo kit (GTRS Garrett Ball Bearing turbo)
Â£662 for the downpipe
Â£400 for the fitting (I was lucky as they loaned me a courtesy car for free) 
FPR 4 Bar Â£50
I am looking at around Â£500 for the remap.

This should come in at Â£2562 give or take a few pounds. The general opinion is that I should get the 310/320 BHP I was hoping for. To answer an earlier question on the term Hybrid, this is a large ball bearing Garret Turbo with a modified casing so it fits the standard manifold. It's rated up to 350BHP so I'm hoping I can run lower boost than I did with the K04 to keep the heat down and run it well within it's limits.

Also I am considering this...
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merch ... y_Code=BCS

This gives you a 3" pipe from the MAF to the Turbo inlet, the Samco I have at the moment is 2.5" at the Turbo. Reading some of the other Forums this can be restrictive, the Turbo kit comes with an adaptor for the standard TIP and also a 3" adaptor for the pipe above.

Regards,

John.


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

do you think the manifold is capable of withstanding the extra heat created by the bigger turbo? time will tell i guess


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi Caney,

Hopefully the manifold will be ok, ATP have tested the manifold at high power levels. I had a brand new OEM manifold sitting around so this has been fitted. This all started because I had a leak on the old manifold, so I thought If thats got to be changed I may aswell do the Turbo etc etc you know how it goes! The original manifold survived 135K of hard driving so if this lasts half as long I'll be happy as the TT isn't my daily drive anymore so fingers crossed.

Cheers,

John.


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## nikos525 (May 15, 2006)

Hi John, did I see right that you've siad that your TT has 135,000 miles on it  Did you get your engine checked out before you decided to go for the bigger turbo or are you just going to run it and see what hapens :twisted:


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## elrao (Apr 19, 2005)

Cheers for the updates John, I am keeping my eyes on this before forking out for a "big turbo" upgrade. Â£2.5K for 310-320 BHP sounds pretty good, when Backdrafts 325 kit is Â£4,250 ish.


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## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

Stub said:


> BTW S10TYG wtf do you have to spam every thead trying to push your tongue up caney and clive's arse? FFS Pm them and stop ruining threads?


Don't know about Turbo's but this did make me LMFAO! :lol:

It's cos he wants to run with the big boys Stub! :wink:


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## Stub (Mar 17, 2005)

Great news John, I would like to know more about this turbo, I did some searching on them and came back with all kinds of positives and negatives about people trying to get them mapped! I am right in thinking its the same fittings as the K04? I would like one of these together with a new inlet mani & new exhaust mani

That sports cat doesnâ€™t look big enough to get it through the MOT? 130k car with a small cat could be and issue with the emissions?

Great stuff John, please can I come see it when she is done?


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## elrao (Apr 19, 2005)

I thought part of the reason for going with a Hybrid is that you didn't need a new manifold? If you are going to upgrade the manifold on top then you are starting to move into the normal big turbo kit prices I would have thought?


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi All,

The engine was replaced in the summer, that's another story! so I'm happy that it will be ok with the extra power. The downpipe/cat meets MOT requirements, but I see your point with an older engine. As long as everything is serviced when it should be emmisions shouldn't be an issue.
I'll keep you posted....

From an earlier post, the engine saga..

Regards,

John.


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

JohnD said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just to give you an update, the Turbo has been fitted without any problems. I have been waiting on a 3" downpipe and sports Cat. This arrived last week so I'm hoping everything will be bolted back together by the end of the week. I will then have to wait until the week after to get it mapped due to work which is a pain! I am probably going to use p-torque in the Midlands, they will do a custom map and also remove my Superchip. This was back in the day when they had to be soldered in! A chip with a standard map will replace it as the baseline for the Custom map.
> 
> ...


Been waiting for someone else to discover Pipewerx (and I have plugged them a few times on here). Nothing but respect for the awesome custom cat back they gave me.  

Really interested in what you are doing here as the thought of 300+ has often flashed through my mind. Please keep us informed 8)


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi All,

The Turbo upgrade is nearly there! Did a little more today, one small issue though. Have a look at the turbo outlet to charge pipe, the forge pipe and the orignal are not quite long enough to reach without compressing the pipe.










I have spoken to ATP and they suggested I clock the Turbo a few degrees as it should be a perfect fit. That means removing the Turbo again  ! The other option is to make an extension to this pipe with a aluminium pipe joiner, the only other thing that is worrying me is that the downpipe is close to the cross member (it's a 3" pipe so clearance is tight). I am trying to work out if clocking the turbo housing will change the downpipe location. As the Turbo is on the car it's hard to see, from the picture the Turbo needs moving anticlockwise, this would then move the downpipe flange away from the cross member at the same time. That's my theory anyway, can anyone confirm that if you clock the turbo housing it moves the whole casing including the exhaust location.

Edit:- Answered my own question..
Just been googling and found this on clocking the compressor housing, I have the Garrett so hopefully this can be done without removing the Turbo. It also answered my question about the exhaust position, clocking the compressor doesn't change the exhaust position. Logical when you think about it as it's all part of the casting that the compressor attaches to. I couldn't picture it once installed!

http://www.team-integra.net/sections/ar ... cleID=1146

Thanks,

John.


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

hi john,why not just buy a 90 degree elbow reducer hose and cut it to suit? sfs or samco will do this or cut your existing hose back a bit where it mates to the charge pipe and pop in a hose joiner then use a piece of hose the other side


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi Caney,

Yep think that's the easier option, just wondered whether standard silicon will be ok with the heat. I thought the standard and forge were made of a special material. I'm going to just extend it tomorrow to get the car going so I can have the mapping done and tidy everything up later.

Cheers,

John.


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## pinotattt (Oct 5, 2007)

Hi JohnD
Really interested in how the standard 225 performs with the pipe werx downpipe without the re-map, I'm heading in that direction. I posted an enquiry about this then noticed your tread.Have Hillclimb next weekend so I'll order it today if anyone can assure me it runs ok. I've read somewhere that the car will increase turbo lag ( loss of power bottom end) without the remap.
Please keep me posted.


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi,

Just responded to your other post. I've had reports that it will reduce your low end power/torque. You really need a custom map to take advantage of it, should breath better though at the higher revs. I'm getting a Custom map done in a couple of weeks because of the Turbo upgrade.

Regards,

John.


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

hi john,speak to lee at sfs and tell him what it's for and he'll sort you out  also buy some heat shield wrap from audi which fastens around the hose using press studs.here's the one on mine


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi Caney,

Is the heatshield foil the same as the original that was fitted around the K04 turbo. I think I've kept that if it's the same. How much did you pay for that as it may be worth wrapping it around all the pipes in the area.

Thanks,

John.


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

JohnD said:


> Hi Caney,
> 
> Is the heatshield foil the same as the original that was fitted around the K04 turbo. I think I've kept that if it's the same. How much did you pay for that as it may be worth wrapping it around all the pipes in the area.
> 
> ...


it is the same yes,jbs fitted it when they did the manifold etc.


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi All,

I have just got the car running with the ATP Turbo kit, I had some fun and games with the 3" downpipe. As my car is a 2001 it has diagonal bars running from the back of the subframe which were hitting the flexi pipe section of the downpipe. After some research it appears later cars have a different subframe design. I haven't seen under a later car to confirm this, anyway we got around it by repositioning the bar as it has elongated holes so can be adjusted. I have also fitted a 4Bar pressure regulator so it is ready for a custom map. I have run it on the present map and checked the fuel trim via VagCom and it is fine, but that's more luck than judgement. The car is very laggy at the moment with the Turbo spooling at around 3.5K, the downpipe has also added lag at the lower revs. The sound difference though is amazing with the Milltek, really deep and has a subura boxer engine sound to it when pulling away. The only downside is you lose some refinement in the cabin, it's ok when cruising at motorway speeds but quite boomy around town and when the Turbo kicks in you can feel it rather then just hear it! I like it but may not be to everyones taste. Anyway I hope to get it mapped next week so will post some figures up once it's done. When you look under the bonnet it looks completely stealth as all the original pipework is retained apart from the rubber charge pipe from the Turbo which you can't see anyway. It's cost me just over Â£2000 and I've been quoted Â£525 for the map, so if I get around 320BHP I'll be very happy!

John.


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

JohnD said:


> so if I get around 320BHP I'll be very happy!
> 
> John.


Sounds like fun.. on standard internals 

Did you do an engine out job or drop the subframe to fit the turbo and DP..?



> As my car is a 2001 it has diagonal bars running from the back of the subframe


have you any pics of this ?


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi Jaayde,

We had to drop the subframe because the Turbo to manifold bolts couldn't be undone. That's when I descided to go for the 3" DP, I was originally going to fit Milltek cats but there was only about Â£100 difference in the price. I cant see a way to fit a DP without dropping the subframe as it's such a tight fit. Hopefully the power should be ok without silly torque, all the tuners seem to going to 350bhp on standard internals. My engine is new and only covered 3k with a sports clutch.

Regards,

John.


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

JohnD said:


> Hi Jaayde,
> 
> We had to drop the subframe because the Turbo to manifold bolts couldn't be undone. That's when I descided to go for the 3" DP, I was originally going to fit Milltek cats but there was only about Â£100 difference in the price. I cant see a way to fit a DP without dropping the subframe as it's such a tight fit. Hopefully the power should be ok without silly torque, all the tuners seem to going to 350bhp on standard internals. My engine is new and only covered 3k with a sports clutch.
> 
> ...


Is it easy to get to the manifold and so forth if you drop the subframe or is it tight?

The reason i ask is because i'm thinking about fitting my kit i may regret it when i start who knows :roll:. Been thinking about just doing an engine out job.

I would mind taking a look when its all done to get some pointers and just have a nose around, if you don't mind that is :wink: i'm in Essex also


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## elrao (Apr 19, 2005)

JAAYDE said:


> JohnD said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Jaayde,
> ...


Jay - you can pick me up on your way down the A12


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

john,just to be on the safe side i'd disconnect the n75 so it runs mechanical boost until it's mapped properly


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi All,

You are welcome to have a look/spin when it's mapped, Caney I'll disconnect the N75, shall I just pull the plug or physically bypass it? Going to try not to use it to much until the remap is completed.

Thanks,

John.


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## MCPaudiTT (Jan 17, 2007)

Numerous posts regarding the 42DraftDesigns 3" Downpipe indicate that an uprated dogbone bushing will cure some knocking issues. If you are on your OEM dogbone, put a urethane one in, or get some VF Engineering engine mounts to stabilize your engine.


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## MCPaudiTT (Jan 17, 2007)

Numerous posts regarding the 42DraftDesigns 3" Downpipe indicate that an uprated dogbone bushing will cure some knocking issues. If you are on your OEM dogbone, put a urethane one in, or get some VF Engineering engine mounts to stabilize your engine.


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## MCPaudiTT (Jan 17, 2007)

oops


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

JohnD said:


> Hi All,
> 
> You are welcome to have a look/spin when it's mapped, Caney I'll disconnect the N75, shall I just pull the plug or physically bypass it? Going to try not to use it to much until the remap is completed.
> 
> ...


just pull it mate,should run about 9psi.


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi All,

I have a date now of the 17/18th Dec for my Custom map. I'm taking it to Will at P-torque. Can't wait now, I'll finally be able to drive it properly! I will keep you posted. I was browsing another forum and a chap has figures of 330BHP on an S3 running this kit with a standard manifold and downpipe so I'm hopeful.

John


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

That good news John 

I'm sure you cannot wait, you will be the fasted TT in Essex  (you beat me to it)


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## elrao (Apr 19, 2005)

JAAYDE said:


> That good news John
> 
> I'm sure you cannot wait, you will be the fasted TT in Essex  (you beat me to it)


But for how long? Wonder which of us will break 350 first?


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

:roll: There is always one


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## caney (Feb 5, 2004)

nice one John keep us updated


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi All,

I had the car mapped Mon/Tues this week by Will at Performance Torque in Wolverhampton. I am over the moon with the results and the drive back to Braintree was amazing (apart from the slow bits on the A14!). I dropped the car down to Will Monday morning and collected it Tuesday afternoon. I managed to book a nearby 'quality' Travelodge for Â£15 and finished off the Christmas shopping in Wolverhampton without the wife and 3 kids in tow which was a nice quiet experience. Will kindly dropped me off in town. The car has been tuned for real world driverability and torque and has produced 310BHP and 350 Ibs of Torque. The low end power is great and the Turbo spools around 3k and holds boost all the the way to red line in every gear. According to my boost gauge it's holding at 1.5 Bar and spiking at 1.6 bar. The in gear power is amazing and it just pulls and pulls. Since the map the engine is much smoother and quieter, before I had the resonance from the 3" downpipe and the Milltek as a result of this. The resonance has now gone and cruising at motorway speeds is now a pleasure. Will said the standard injectors were nearing their maximum limit so he has not attempted to squeeze additional BHP from the Turbo. I am more than happy with the setup at the moment and this will keep the power within the safety specs for the engine. Will has also added some safety features to the map to protect the Turbo particularly in cold weather until the engine oil temp has risen. I would highly recommend Performance Torque they are perfectionists and very helpful and the pricing is competitive.

This upgrade cost me Â£2700 including the map give or take a couple of pounds for hoses, clips etc. I may change the manifold and upgrade the injectors at a later date but this modding is addictive so I will have to draw the line somewhere and stop spending money! It made it easier because I bought the bits in stages softened the blow a bit. There is now the K04 Hybrid being offered by some tuners, and this option would work out about the same with a downpipe and sports cat. I am hoping though that as the bigger Turbo is not being pushed so hard long term reliability will be improved. One last point, when I am driving at 75/80 ish I am now returning 37/38 MPG where as before I was averaging 28/29 MPG. I'm putting this down to the fact the engine is now running more effeciently with the 3" intake and less back pressure and the new map.

Regards,

John.

Here is the printout from the Dyno run...


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## MCPaudiTT (Jan 17, 2007)

The reason your mileage has improved is you put in a 4-bar regulator (I did read that a few pages back, right?). The car thinks it is still the 3-bar, so more fuel is going in than the computer knows about. Check your mileage on a tank and you will see you are about 15% off. You can adjust this to get it closer with a VAG-COM.

To correct this with a VAG-COM go to the Instrument module #17, Select adaptation (advanced functions), Go to channel 3, Enter 105, 110, or 115 (stock is 100), then â€œDoneâ€. It will only increment in steps of 5. Your particular settings may vary and you may have to input a lower value after testing accuracy.


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

Can we have pics of the install mate ?

Will is one of my options over MRC to map my car when my turbo and stuff is on.

Did you drive it to his place ?

*MCPaudiTT -* That is a useful piece of info, i wasn't aware these adjustments had to be made.


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## p-torque.co.uk (Sep 12, 2006)

Hi John

Pleased you are happy.

The car was running great, with a superb torque range, even at lower revs

Have a good Xmas!


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Hi John,

This has been a really interesting thread to follow. To be honest I've never really been too tempted by a big turbo because of the cost/hassle ratio, however you seem to have found a route that might be relatively easily replicated.

For me the custom mapping done by Will seems to be the icing on the cake. To get that so right first time (if I understood that correctly) is nothing short of admirable. Did he achieve that for the quoted price at the beginning of this thread?

Please can you let me know when you're going to a meet in the south east? I'd really like to have a look at your car and have a chat with you.

Cheers and have a very merry Christmas. 

Rich


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi Rich and Jaayde,

I'll get some pictures done of the engine bay, it looks standard to be honest as it uses the standard charge pipe and the Turbo is in the original location of the K04. I drove the car to P-Torque just disconnected the N75 as Caney suggested to prevent over boost on the Turbo while using the original map. I'll try and get to a meet in the near future so you can take a look/drive. If you wanted to follow this route Will at P-Torque often works with another VAG specialist who rebuild engines they are in a nearby unit. You could probably get the Turbo fitted by them and get Will to map it perfect solution. The price I payed was as quoted and Will spent a lot of time perfecting the map in particular the low end power. I guess as he has the base map now for this setup it would be easier to adapt to another car with the similar specs. I had a superchip fitted as well which was encrytped so this had to de-soldered and replaced with a chip flashed with a standard map which added to the time. Oh and nearly forgot MCPaudiTT thanks for the info about the 4 Bar, and I thought what a bonus better mpg aswell. I'll check on VagCom as you suggested. I'll probably find I'm getting 19 mpg in reality the way I've been driving!

Happy Christmas,

Regards,

John.


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## Stub (Mar 17, 2005)

Great write up! this is what I want now, did you get an upgraded exhaust manifold or standard?

I am thinking about the one that Backdraft do for 650, do people think that the JBS, Backdraft and this one John has used are much the same?

Thanks for the great updates John :wink:


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## JAAYDE (Aug 15, 2006)

Stub said:


> Great write up! this is what I want now, did you get an upgraded exhaust manifold or standard?


He said it was standard (not reading again Stub :roll: )

John, do you know of the VAG company near Will ?


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

MCPaudiTT said:


> To correct this with a VAG-COM go to the Instrument module #17, Select adaptation (advanced functions), Go to channel 3, Enter 105, 110, or 115 (stock is 100), then â€œDoneâ€. It will only increment in steps of 5. Your particular settings may vary and you may have to input a lower value after testing accuracy.


Hi Mike,

I have the 4-bar fuel pump fitted along with the Modshack VTDA and MOFO. andy at APS fitted this but didn't have time to make the adaptions with VagCom so your comments are interesting as I understood this to be a complex process.

How do you know whether to choose 105, 110 or 115 and how do you test for accuracy afterwards? i'm going for the Stage 3 Boost machine in January and would like to get the adaptation with VagCom done at the same time.

Cheers Mike and Merry Christmas. 

Rich

PS I've been trying to get hold of Draft 42. Are they still around? No replies to emails... :?


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## JoJoEnglish85 (Dec 18, 2007)

oh yes 42 is still around, they are almost done with the 180 fwd downpipe also. Go to the website and order what you need. :lol: I want to do this mod but everyone says its not worth it, but it seems to me that it is.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

JoJoEnglish85 said:


> oh yes 42 is still around, they are almost done with the 180 fwd downpipe also. Go to the website and order what you need. :lol: I want to do this mod but everyone says its not worth it, but it seems to me that it is.


Hi,

Last time I tried to order via the website I was told they didn't do international sales, however I've been dealing with a lady called Carly at Draft 42 and she's been very helpful...

Placed two orders and now want to place a third and no response to my emails... :?

Are you based in the US?

cheers

rich


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## JoJoEnglish85 (Dec 18, 2007)

rustyintegrale said:


> JoJoEnglish85 said:
> 
> 
> > oh yes 42 is still around, they are almost done with the 180 fwd downpipe also. Go to the website and order what you need. :lol: I want to do this mod but everyone says its not worth it, but it seems to me that it is.
> ...


yes im in houston, texas


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## elrao (Apr 19, 2005)

John, you'll need a new clutch for that 350 ft/lbs of torque 

Nice Sachs one for sale not too far from you


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Hi All,

Jayyde, I haven't got the name of the VAG tuner near P-Torque, give Will a call after Christmas and he can give you the details. Stub the manifold is bog standard Audi, I wouldn't have minded upgrading the manifold to a JBS equal length or similar but I couldn't justify the extra cost at the moment. The way it is running at the moment I think i'll stick with it and if I get any manifold issues the standard ones are easy to get hold of. Elrao I fitted a Spec 3+ clutch when the engine was replaced back in the summer, should survive the torque!

Cheers,

John.


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## JoJoEnglish85 (Dec 18, 2007)

So john, hows the new tt running so far since the last update?
im getting my ELM this week, and im going to wait to get it installed along with the 42draft 3" DP and APR custom 3" exhaust. Where can i find a a 4bar FPR? Also should i be fine with my GIAC X map?


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## JohnD (May 7, 2002)

Sorry didn't notice this post had been revived, I've replied on your other thread. I got the 4Bar from Vagparts.com but as you are in the States it would be cheaper to get it locally, it's a standard Bosch. You will need to get it Custom mapped, I ran mine on the original map for a couple of weeks with the N75 disconnected to protect the engine until I could get it booked in. As you have a similar setup you should see the same gains, unless you can improve the bhp figure by uprating the injectors. It will be interesting to see what figures you get.

Regards,

John.


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## MCPaudiTT (Jan 17, 2007)

rustyintegrale said:


> How do you know whether to choose 105, 110 or 115 and how do you test for accuracy afterwards?


To check for accuracy, fill the tank and reset the average fuel readout. Drive a few hundred miles minimum (a full tank is best) and refill. Calculate mpg using the miles travelled and gas used to refill. Compare to what the car reports.

You can see some of my data here:










The highest peaks around point 85-97 are after MoFo, before correction. The post correction numbers are "correct"... I do need to make a graph comparing car reported to calculated mpg for you to see clearly what I mean...


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