# Brake upgrade advise



## chrissy1502002 (Dec 25, 2011)

Good evening people

I'm currently looking to upgrade the standard front brakes on my Quattro Sport. I want to retain my QS wheels and ideally not have to run any any spacers if possible.

I had some boxter s rear callipers on my Ibiza cupra and I'd like to get your thought and advise on what options I have to stick with one wheels and hopefully no spacers


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Boxter rear calipers are not recommended for the front I've heard they are worse than the standard TT fronts


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## Baalthazaar (Jul 11, 2010)

Normally the only spacer free upgrade would be to go to v6 brakes, but as it's a QS you already have them....so as far as I am aware if you go bigger as in porsche or Brembo then spacers on oem wheels are inevitable.


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Baalthazaar said:


> Normally the only spacer free upgrade would be to go to v6 brakes, but as it's a QS you already have them....so as far as I am aware if you go bigger as in porsche or Brembo then spacers on oem wheels are inevitable.


qS has standard 225 brakes best bet to get away with out needing spaces would be the Tarox b32 calipers

















As you can see I can get my hand between the qS wheel and caliper


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## Baalthazaar (Jul 11, 2010)

My mistake, I could have sworn the QS had the v6 brakes, you live and learn. The Tarox will be a good option to replace my Brembo Gts as I need huge spacers to run my 3sdms


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Baalthazaar said:


> My mistake, I could have sworn the QS had the v6 brakes, you live and learn. The Tarox will be a good option to replace my Brembo Gts as I need huge spacers to run my 3sdms


The brochure says it has the V6 brakes but they don't 
The Tarox are great kit but unless you go for the 2piece discs they can suffer with brake squeal


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## Von Twinzig (Feb 10, 2014)

What compound pads are you using?

VT


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## MrQaud (Jun 5, 2013)

Here's mine... 
Needed a 20mm spacer with the 18 inch wheels though...


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## Pow3rL3ss (Dec 15, 2008)

Tarox on my QS


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## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

Brembo GT Junior's for me, 323mm discs with 4-pot calipers taken from Seat Leon Cupra R.

With newly reformed EBC Yellow Stuff pads.


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## DC240S (Sep 24, 2014)

TT Tom TT said:


> Brembo GT Junior's for me, 323mm discs with 4-pot calipers taken from Seat Leon Cupra R.
> 
> With newly reformed EBC Yellow Stuff pads.


I don't think they are from a Leon Cupra R as the LCR caliper has a transfer pipe, bleed nipples for both sides and and line in centre of the caliper back. Though both callipers better to the V6 setup and more suiting the car.



These are mine and I don't now if they need spacers but I have some 12.5 mm H&R just in case.


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## chrissy1502002 (Dec 25, 2011)

Wow thanks guys for the advise! I have to admit I do like the look of Yellow's tarox set up but they seem to be a bit rare and harder to get hold of at a good price. I do love the aesthetics of porsche callipers, if I were to go down that route what callipers/spacers would you recommend to keep the oem QS wheels?


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## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

DC240S said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> > Brembo GT Junior's for me, 323mm discs with 4-pot calipers taken from Seat Leon Cupra R.
> ...


You're right as well, I bought them as Brembo GT Junior kit second hand... What on Earth have I got? A variant of such?


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## DC240S (Sep 24, 2014)

Looks like you have the GT Juniors - not the Leon Cupra R caliper

http://www.thettshop.com/performance.as ... uct=600438



TT Tom TT said:


> DC240S said:
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> > TT Tom TT said:
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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

chrissy1502002 said:


> Wow thanks guys for the advise! I have to admit I do like the look of Yellow's tarox set up but they seem to be a bit rare and harder to get hold of at a good price. I do love the aesthetics of porsche callipers, if I were to go down that route what callipers/spacers would you recommend to keep the oem QS wheels?


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## sferg410 (Oct 23, 2015)

Might not be the right answer but anyone get the Porsche Cayenne front brakes upgrade, if so any photos and performance comments? With those on the front, what do you go for on the rear?


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## Desmodave996 (Jun 2, 2013)

Another option, forge 6 pots...









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

[smiley=bomb.gif]

Get a power bleeder, some GOOD brake fluid, and new pads and discs. Anything else is going to be over kill and you will need to do a bleed anyways. 6 Pot brakes are utterly useless on these cars. Even for show. GT Juniors would be as "big" as I'd go...

Unless you're doing it for show, then by all means do as you please. You really didn't give your reasoning in the OP so idk if you're trying to improve your brakes or just get big flashy ones. lol.


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> [smiley=bomb.gif]
> 
> 6 Pot brakes are utterly useless on these cars. Even for show.


Bullshit :lol:


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

sferg410 said:


> Might not be the right answer but anyone get the Porsche Cayenne front brakes upgrade, if so any photos and performance comments? With those on the front, what do you go for on the rear?


I have it and it`s worth it only if you are running big power;nothing on the rear at the moment.


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Desmodave996 said:


> Another option, forge 6 pots...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Another good option I have them on the R good kit but thicker than the Tarox so might need spacers


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## MrQaud (Jun 5, 2013)

Here are the Cayenne 6 pots on mine currently...
I've had the smaller Porsche calipers, the Brembo GT Juniors and now these and I can say categorically that these are by far the best performance-wise - they look the best too I think. There is no excess pedal travel - travel is the same as standard and the braking force is staggering. I'm running Golf R32 Disks with them and a 20mm spacers. Wheels are 18 inch with a 35 mm offset. Rear setup, I've a set of Tarox 308 mm two piece disks - see second pic...

post images

upload a gif


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

MrQaud said:


> Here are the Cayenne 6 pots on mine currently...
> I've had the smaller Porsche calipers, the Brembo GT Juniors and now these and I can say categorically that these are by far the best performance-wise - they look the best too I think. There is no excess pedal travel - travel is the same as standard and the braking force is staggering. I'm running Golf R32 Disks with them and a 20mm spacers. Wheels are 18 inch with a 35 mm offset. Rear setup, I've a set of Tarox 308 mm two piece disks - see second pic...
> 
> post images
> ...


Wrong links mate


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## Mondo (Feb 20, 2009)

I fookin' [smiley=sweetheart.gif] those rear Taxox discs.


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## chrissy1502002 (Dec 25, 2011)

Thanks for all your help guys! I have found a set of Leon Cupra R brembos very reasonably priced, I believe they use the 323mm disc... can anyone confirm this and slo is that the same did as the 3.2?


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## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

chrissy1502002 said:


> Thanks for all your help guys! I have found a set of Leon Cupra R brembos very reasonably priced, I believe they use the 323mm disc... can anyone confirm this and slo is that the same did as the 3.2?


They do, you need to get the calipers with the discs and then just swap the discs and calipers on your car for the LCR's that you've bought. That's what I did any way, our stocks discs are 312mm so will be no good for the LCR Brembo 4 pots


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

hang your idols said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > [smiley=bomb.gif]
> ...


Care to back that up? It's easy to make a snide remark and add an emoji. What makes you believe that you need enormous calipers on a light weight car that will also never see a track (95% of this forum)? I'll be waiting. :roll: [smiley=book2.gif]


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## Delta4 (Jun 19, 2015)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> hang your idols said:
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> 
> > Gonzalo1495 said:
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It may be the way you worded it gonz, overkill instead of useless for road cars that don't see track action sounds better.


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> > Gonzalo1495 said:
> ...


If you drive like a granny and you don`t have a powerful car,you don`t need BBK;but if you drive fast with a powerful car,then defo you need BBK.
When you will have enough power and i`m not talking about american hp which grow up in the tree,then you will understand :lol:


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Why do you want to upgrade your brakes? Improved performance or looks?

By far the best upgrade to your brake performance is to change the pad material to a higher spec e.g. Mintex M1144 or Frodo DS2500 which will give you a higher temperature and friction coefficient.

The best upgrade to standard worn discs without going larger is to replace them with new thicker (unworn) standard plain discs which give a higher heat capacity. Don't go for standard size discs with drillings or grooves as that's just marketing and only degrades heat capacity as it removes metal from the standard volume.

An upgrade for the discs means larger discs; firstly the V6 variant requiring different calipers and pads, then other kits - all with rising expense but why?

If you can lock your wheels up with your given tyres then there is no point in increasing friction coefficient. Only if you get fade is there any point in increasing heat capacity - usually that's because of fast spirited or track driving.

If it's looks you are after then that can be expensive vanity.


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## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

To be honest I was looking into a brake upgrade and settled on the 4-pot Brembo LCR's because everything I read pretty much assured me that for these cars the performance gain & reward versus cost started to become not worth it after this kind of level. At the end of the day, it's 4 decent sized pots with slightly bigger discs for a few hundred quid (mine were 450 quid with refurbed calipers, discs that had done 1500 miles, nearly new braided lines and pads that had done 1500 miles and the carriers). Can't say fairer than that when you're probably looking at over 1k for just the calipers and discs for some of the set-ups posted in here.

It's for the small wall of text above that I would agree with gonzalo in saying anything over 4-pot on these cars is a little bit over-kill... If you start spending over 1k on a brake upgrade you're getting into the territory of "you should have bought a more suitable car from the get-go."


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

hang your idols said:


> If you drive like a granny and you don`t have a powerful car,you don`t need BBK;but if you drive fast with a powerful car,then defo you need BBK.
> When you will have enough power and i`m not talking about american hp which grow up in the tree,then you will understand :lol:


 :lol: :lol: :lol:

American HP! Drive fast, powerful car ... LMFAO!!! [smiley=baby.gif]


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## chrissy1502002 (Dec 25, 2011)

I'm wanting to upgrade them as I do a lot of hard driving including track time and I get a lot of brake fade offer a few big stops. I also want them to look nice aesthetically but the main reason is for the better performance and reduced fade. I have managed to get my hands on a set of LCR brembos with the carriers which are. Ring rebuilt now for a very reasonable cost. I'm going to get a good set of 323 discs with a good set of pads. Does anyone know if the 3.2 TT disc is the same as the LCR discs?


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## thomp1983 (Nov 5, 2016)

If it's solely a road car then there's not really any need to change the stock calipers, I've just completed 1600 of hard driving on proper b roads in Scotland and didn't find much wrong with the stock setup my 225 quattro has, if/when the time comes I'll probably change to a proven high spec pad such as carbotechs or porterfields if there available for the tt. Those matched with quality discs and decent brake fluid should be all you'll need

With fairly often repeated stops from into 3 figures I didn't find any fade or degradation in performance, I'd say decent quality tyres followed by some sort of advanced/track training would make you faster/reduce lap times for less money than a big brake kit will


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

John-H said:


> Why do you want to upgrade your brakes? Improved performance or looks?
> 
> By far the best upgrade to your brake performance is to change the pad material to a higher spec e.g. Mintex M1144 or Frodo DS2500 which will give you a higher temperature and friction coefficient.
> 
> ...


Thank you John! The best post in this thread. You can always tell who does not get how brakes work when braking is measured in the number of pots. As you pointed, pads coefficient of friction is the single biggest factor in braking TQ generated. I would say that the friction coefficient of the pad material accounts for 60% of the braking total TQ, the other 40% comes from the caliper clamping load, the mechanical leverage, and the hydraulic pressure in the system. So in real life, lowering stopping distance is most effectively done with pad selection -- you get several time as much return from that alone than any other possible mod you can do to the braking system. That's like the handling of a car, the tyres will have the biggest impact (more than anything else you can change in the suspension), yet people spend unimaginable effort on improving the suspension but overlook the biggest aspect in handling, the rubber that meets the ground.

Thank you, and I speak for all of us that understand how it works, for being the voice of reason!


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

I clocked nine stops from 70 mph to zero mph within 2.5 minutes before fade on new standard 225 brakes.


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## thomp1983 (Nov 5, 2016)

John-H said:


> I clocked nine stops from 70 mph to zero mph within 2.5 minutes before fade on new standard 225 brakes.


We're they new oem parts or new aftermarket parts and fresh brake fluid? And out of interest what were you doing that required high speed stops to zero that frequently?


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

thomp1983 said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> > I clocked nine stops from 70 mph to zero mph within 2.5 minutes before fade on new standard 225 brakes.
> ...


 :lol: It was a test provoked by Mr L if memory serves me right (I may edit that later). Edit: No it was Mr Daemon and here's the thread: viewtopic.php?t=52423
I'd not long bought the car and it had new Audi dealer brakes fitted. Thought I'd find out for myself. My previous RS2000 Mk5 4x4 couldn't manage that.


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## David C (Apr 15, 2013)

chrissy1502002 said:


> Does anyone know if the 3.2 TT disc is the same as the LCR discs?


The 3.2V6 are bigger (334x32) and 2-piece as std.


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## thomp1983 (Nov 5, 2016)

John-H said:


> thomp1983 said:
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> 
> > John-H said:
> ...


It's an interesting result but not a situation you'd really find yourself in on a road or on track really


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## 1781cc (Jan 25, 2015)

I've battered my car around the tracks with big stops and since moving to the Ferrodo DS3000s I have to say that there is no way I would go for a BBK, and good part is that if I feel the brakes need even more bite and improvement I can start working through the Carbotech range - all on standard discs and callipers with high boil fluid.

Before you part with hard earned, chuck some high CF pads in there, good fluid and a bleed, you'll be surprised at the difference.


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

John-H said:


> Why do you want to upgrade your brakes? Improved performance or looks?
> 
> By far the best upgrade to your brake performance is to change the pad material to a higher spec e.g. Mintex M1144 or Frodo DS2500 which will give you a higher temperature and friction coefficient.
> 
> ...


On point


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

hang your idols said:


> If you drive like a granny and you don`t have a powerful car,you don`t need BBK;but if you drive fast with a powerful car,then defo you need BBK.
> When you will have enough power and i`m not talking about american hp which grow up in the tree,then you will understand :lol:


I drive twice as fast and more aggressive than you do, I guarantee it. It's also not about power, having enormous brakes can upset the cars weight distribution while braking under load, you can have more than enough stopping power which will slow you down more than you need to etc.

Let me also be clear, your 400 crank horse power TT is not "a powerful car" to the point that it needs 6 pot brakes. You drive a TT, not a Dodge Challenger Hellcat :lol: :lol:

To each their own man, lmao.


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

chrissy1502002 said:


> I'm wanting to upgrade them as I do a lot of hard driving including track time and I get a lot of brake fade offer a few big stops. I also want them to look nice aesthetically but the main reason is for the better performance and reduced fade.


Brake fade is primarily due to your brake fluid reaching it's boiling point. You need GOOD fluid, a fresh bleed, and good pads on the track. There's no way around it. 
It sounds like your problem was you needed a better brake fluid (with a higher BP than OEM) and a fresh bleed of the system.

Or you can ignore those of us who seem to know what we're talking about, and just follow the forum culture.

This should get you started:


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## chrissy1502002 (Dec 25, 2011)

I already have dot 5.1 fluid which is changed yearly with brembo pads and discs. As I say I do lean on the brakes more than most as I do enjoy a spirited drive and also do a few track sessions. Secondly I'm wanting some brembos for the ashtetics also, form and function then 

I totally get what your all saying about having massive callipers is pointless on a car alike ours however I don't feel a set of LCR callipers are too big


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## David C (Apr 15, 2013)

chrissy1502002 said:


> I already have dot 5 fluid...


I really hope you don't have DOT5 brake fluid.


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## chrissy1502002 (Dec 25, 2011)

David C said:


> chrissy1502002 said:
> 
> 
> > I already have dot 5 fluid...
> ...


Lol my mistake, post now amended


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

In case you missed the edit above my nine stop test was encouraged by Mr Daemon (not Mr L) a good few years ago when I'd not long had my TT. Here's the thread:

viewtopic.php?t=52423

High TT who contributed is a track veteran.

The comment above about brake fluid boiling is a good one once you have uprated pads - the higher temperatures before fade can induce old brake fluid containing water to boil and that's not nice to encounter.

The comments about brake bias are also relevant. Standard brake bias is usually set around 70% front 30% rear. If you uprate your front brakes and not the rear you can end up with an even more extreme bias and that can make your braking less effective depending on circumstances as your front tyres can give up earlier.

Driving on loose surfaces or snow for example is best approached with a 50:50 bias. Putting big brakes on the front with increased pot area can end up with an extreme front bias which leads you into tortured front tyres giving up grip early and excess wear on front steering linkages. You should maintain the correct bias for the situations likely to be encountered to gain improvement with braking torque.

Fade is another issue but again, if you do all your braking on the front thats where all the heat goes so it's therefore no longer distributed to all four corners - so your improved fade expectations may not be as great as you first think.


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## thomp1983 (Nov 5, 2016)

chrissy1502002 said:


> David C said:
> 
> 
> > chrissy1502002 said:
> ...


I'd say your pads are the weak point in your current setup, brembo discs are reasonably decent but I've never really rated there pads as a decent fast road pad, fit some carbotech pads and the difference will be night and day, the only negatives to carbotechs are they generate a lot of dust and can squeal. I personally prefer porterfield pads but I've yet to check if they do them for the tt, they offer the same performance as carbotechs just without the dust


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## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

Just as a side-note to anyone wondering about friction co-efficient of pads, I ran through all realistically available in the UK that are common-place / affordable. I found myself the pads with the highest friction co-efficient which were the EBC YellowStuffs which I am currently using:

EBC YellowStuff pads - "Nominal friction coefficient 0.6 with zero rotor damage and low dust"
Source: http://www.placeforbrakes.com/products/ ... ebc-brakes

Ferodo DS2500's - "Ferodo DS2500 brake pads material has a friction level of approximately 0.50"
Source: http://www.europerformance.co.uk/parts/ ... rake-pads/

Mintex 1144 - "Mintex 1144 compound brake pads are designed for fast road and light track day use. These pads have a friction coefficient of just over 0.4"
Source: http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/performan ... brake-pads

I am now using 500 heat rated brake fluid which left me with the option of then upgrading discs and calipers which I felt was also a necessary upgrade. Hope this helps !


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## Beunhaas (May 14, 2014)

Ehrr there are more advantages on aluminum monoblocks than pots bla bla bla. 3.5 KG unsprung weight saving per front caliper!!! from OWN experience i can tell you that makes a world of difference. Cheaper than buying lightweight rims [smiley=baby.gif]

And i cant stand people saving oh i got brembo pads and rotos so it must be good.
A rotor is just a lump of metal not that much rocketscience behind it. Brembo or not.
And brembo pads, what does that mean? If someone says he got an audi good for you. Is it an A1 1.4 or an rs6, now that puts things into perspective


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> > If you drive like a granny and you don`t have a powerful car,you don`t need BBK;but if you drive fast with a powerful car,then defo you need BBK.
> ...


12sec 1/4mile it`s not a powerful car to use BBK coz you drive fast&furios :lol: 
If u drive twice as fast like me,are running 800hp?,just asking :lol:


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Madmax199 said:


> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> > If you drive like a granny and you don`t have a powerful car,you don`t need BBK;but if you drive fast with a powerful car,then defo you need BBK.
> ...


Everybody knows how good american hp looks on the paper :lol:


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

TT Tom TT said:


> Just as a side-note to anyone wondering about friction co-efficient of pads, I ran through all realistically available in the UK that are common-place / affordable. I found myself the pads with the highest friction co-efficient which were the EBC YellowStuffs which I am currently using:
> 
> EBC YellowStuff pads - "Nominal friction coefficient 0.6 with zero rotor damage and low dust"
> Source: http://www.placeforbrakes.com/products/ ... ebc-brakes
> ...


500 C or F degrees?,coz i don`t know any brake fluid with boiling point 5000C?!
Myself i`m using motul rbf 660 which is 325C/617 F rated.


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## Jay-225 (Mar 7, 2012)

I am running the LCR Brembos on mine with Ferodo DS2500 pads with drilled and grooved discs. They work absolutely spot on with road driving and pedal remains perfect due to being matched to the TT master cylinder. Went to the Nurburgring few months back and they performed as expect with no fade at all BUT i would of liked a bit more bite from the pads tbh and would probably be better off with a set of DS3000 if mainly doing track driving ( higher temp rang and more co-e ). Not a fan of the drilled and grooved discs but they came with mine so will use them till they are dead then change to a set of plain discs as i hate the sound/feeling you get from grooved discs plus they absolutely eat the pads ( mine have a few mm left and will need changing soon, done about 2k on them ) . Running on fresh Dot 4.1 , no issues here


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## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

hang your idols said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> > Just as a side-note to anyone wondering about friction co-efficient of pads, I ran through all realistically available in the UK that are common-place / affordable. I found myself the pads with the highest friction co-efficient which were the EBC YellowStuffs which I am currently using:
> ...


it was a type-o. I typed 600... Motul rbf600.



Beunhaas said:


> Ehrr there are more advantages on aluminum monoblocks than pots bla bla bla. 3.5 KG unsprung weight saving per front caliper!!! from OWN experience i can tell you that makes a world of difference. Cheaper than buying lightweight rims [smiley=baby.gif]
> 
> And i cant stand people saving oh i got brembo pads and rotos so it must be good.
> A rotor is just a lump of metal not that much rocketscience behind it. Brembo or not.
> And brembo pads, what does that mean? If someone says he got an audi good for you. Is it an A1 1.4 or an rs6, now that puts things into perspective


They are better than mine in that respect then for sure, stock TT 225 front calipers are 6.4kg, my GT's were 4.4kg so a saving of 2kg, I can't believe the monoblocks are 2.9kg ! That's really light!


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

hang your idols said:


> Madmax199 said:
> 
> 
> > hang your idols said:
> ...


Everbody? You mean the delusionals that rationalize their inability to make power on some magical fairy tale. Yeah, the consensus in your world is that "american" dynos get sprinkled in pixy dust before leaving the factory while the one bound to Europe are fitted with a restritor to hold the numbers down. Way to go! :lol: :lol:


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Friction coefficients can vary with temperature and there seems to be some discrepancy with the reported numbers. This site has a table:

http://www.dpr-motorsport-parts.com/con ... nical.html


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## chrissy1502002 (Dec 25, 2011)

Jay-225 said:


> I am running the LCR Brembos on mine with Ferodo DS2500 pads with drilled and grooved discs. They work absolutely spot on with road driving and pedal remains perfect due to being matched to the TT master cylinder. Went to the Nurburgring few months back and they performed as expect with no fade at all BUT i would of liked a bit more bite from the pads tbh and would probably be better off with a set of DS3000 if mainly doing track driving ( higher temp rang and more co-e ). Not a fan of the drilled and grooved discs but they came with mine so will use them till they are dead then change to a set of plain discs as i hate the sound/feeling you get from grooved discs plus they absolutely eat the pads ( mine have a few mm left and will need changing soon, done about 2k on them ) . Running on fresh Dot 4.1 , no issues here


Thats good news  Mine should be arriving Wednesday including a set of discs but no brake lines. I may get a new set of discs whilst I'm at it. From what ive read i need LCR discs also and i believe my brake lines may also fit


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## MrQaud (Jun 5, 2013)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> hang your idols said:
> 
> 
> > If you drive like a granny and you don`t have a powerful car,you don`t need BBK;but if you drive fast with a powerful car,then defo you need BBK.
> ...


Potentially the most arrogant and condescending comment I've read yet on these forums!


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

MrQaud said:


> Gonzalo1495 said:
> 
> 
> > hang your idols said:
> ...


Just potentially? What a shame. I was going for single most arrogant and condescending. Sorry to let you down champ. :?


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## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

John-H said:


> Friction coefficients can vary with temperature and there seems to be some discrepancy with the reported numbers. This site has a table:
> 
> http://www.dpr-motorsport-parts.com/con ... nical.html


How do you mean discrepancy? I quoted from a website which said "just over 0.4" your link puts the Mintex 1144 at 0.44 which I would say supports the link I posted unless there is something I'm missing, or you mean just in general.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

TT Tom TT said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> > Friction coefficients can vary with temperature and there seems to be some discrepancy with the reported numbers. This site has a table:
> ...


It's complicated.

The website I linked to quoted M1144:
0.44 cold
0.45 @ 100°C
0.46 @ 300°C

That's nearer 0.5 in use when rounded at higher temperatures.

The link you provided was to Demon Tweeks and if you fill in the vehicle data they say they don't supply for the TT.

I believe Mintex formulation also varies with application so the material and Fr varies but I'll check with my contact in their technical department to be sure tomorrow if I have time.

EBC are notorious for changing the formulation and sourcing and rolling back the spec. They originally offered Green stuff as a performance pad for the TT but now they don't. The Red stuff was a track day competition pad but after reports of it falling apart here they longer clam that application.
EBC Yellow stuff according to Wiki (presumably from previous EBC data quotes:
Cold friction 0.5 ; 550C(1000F)-0.31 ; 800C(1440F)-0.2. - So the working coefficient is <0.5

According to your link EBC now quote a nominal 0.6 but it doesn't say at what temperature.

So, what I'm trying to point out is that there are discrepancies and it's not safe to believe or presume without further assurance regarding friction coefficient as just one parameter.


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

American HP! Drive fast, powerful car ... LMFAO!!! [smiley=baby.gif][/quote]

Everybody knows how good american hp looks on the paper :lol:[/quote]

Everbody? You mean the delusionals that rationalize their inability to make power on some magical fairy tale. Yeah, the consensus in your world is that "american" dynos get sprinkled in pixy dust before leaving the factory while the one bound to Europe are fitted with a restritor to hold the numbers down. Way to go! :lol: :lol:[/quote]

Oooo boy,this american fairy tale;what will Santa bring you this year? :lol:


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## hang your idols (Jul 8, 2013)

Gonzalo1495 said:


> Just potentially? What a shame. I was going for single most arrogant and condescending. Sorry to let you down champ. :?


You are arrogant...,no,you are mad(max) coz you believe u can drive twice as fast a basic TT which the poor can do it :lol: 
I like a good laugh,don`t get upset,u and Max are... those guys [smiley=book2.gif] :lol:


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## Gonzalo1495 (Oct 13, 2014)

hang your idols said:


> Madmax199 said:
> 
> 
> > Everbody? You mean the delusionals that rationalize their inability to make power on some magical fairy tale. Yeah, the consensus in your world is that "american" dynos get sprinkled in pixy dust before leaving the factory while the one bound to Europe are fitted with a restritor to hold the numbers down. Way to go! :lol: :lol:
> ...


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

hang your idols said:


> You are arrogant...,no,you are mad(max) coz you believe u can drive twice as fast a basic TT which the poor can do it :lol:
> I like a good laugh,don`t get upset,u and Max are... those guys [smiley=book2.gif] :lol:


   
Lay off the drugs man. Serious advice!


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## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

John-H said:


> TT Tom TT said:
> 
> 
> > John-H said:
> ...


Cheers for explaining yourself in a very thorough manner, appreciate the information [smiley=book2.gif].


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## 1781cc (Jan 25, 2015)

Just to add that the quoted CF on Mintex 1144 and the DS3000s aren't worlds apart but having run them back to back on track I can say in all honesty that the difference is night and day, the Mintex are sorely lacking!

OP, just spunk the money, get the setup you want, you can lead a horse to water but...


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## chrissy1502002 (Dec 25, 2011)

I feel this thread has got way out of hand :?

I have consequently bought an LCR brembo setup for a very reasonable price due to the master cylinders being the same on my QS and the LCR. It's turned out be a very cheap upgrade which will yield both better brake function whilst being aesthetically pleasing, both of which were my main aim.

For me a nice set of brakes aids to the look of a car and as I do a few track days and drive "enthusiastically" I do encounter brake fade quite often after a few stops along with the odd warped disc.

With the ease of the LCR conversion I feel that they cover both of my reasons for changing, it's not just for performance as I say, it's a bit of both 

Let's be honest no one NEEDS more power, no one NEEDS better handling neither does anyone NEED better braking.... just become some people choose to modify their pride and joys doesn't mean the ones who haven't are wrong not to do so. Anyone who's saying that I don't need to change my brakes your correct however I want to. It's no different to anyone who's changed to a turbo back exhaust, just because I haven't done it for my own reasons doesn't mean the guys/girls who have are wrong to do so... that's the joy of modifying cars, you get all different takes on people's ideas of perfection.

Thanks everyone for all of your help and guidance, I'll be sure to report back once they are fitted which will hopefully be next weekend


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

chrissy1502002 said:


> Let's be honest no one NEEDS more power, no one NEEDS better handling neither does anyone NEED better braking.... just become some people choose to modify their pride and joys doesn't mean the ones who haven't are wrong not to do so.


I think the point some people are trying to make is that changing the calipers doesn't necessarily give you 'better' braking though. And even if it does, the gains will be minimal compared to the improvements you'll get from upgrading other braking components.

People can modify their cars any way they want, but it's important to be honest about the reasons for doing it and the actual real-world effects. There's nothing wrong with fitting a massive bbk if you like the look of them (or you're saving weight, etc), but it's misleading to then tell everyone that it has massively changed the stopping distance, or that you have to have a bbk once you get over 'x' bhp.


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## Jay-225 (Mar 7, 2012)

chrissy1502002 said:


> Jay-225 said:
> 
> 
> > I am running the LCR Brembos on mine with Ferodo DS2500 pads with drilled and grooved discs. They work absolutely spot on with road driving and pedal remains perfect due to being matched to the TT master cylinder. Went to the Nurburgring few months back and they performed as expect with no fade at all BUT i would of liked a bit more bite from the pads tbh and would probably be better off with a set of DS3000 if mainly doing track driving ( higher temp rang and more co-e ). Not a fan of the drilled and grooved discs but they came with mine so will use them till they are dead then change to a set of plain discs as i hate the sound/feeling you get from grooved discs plus they absolutely eat the pads ( mine have a few mm left and will need changing soon, done about 2k on them ) . Running on fresh Dot 4.1 , no issues here
> ...


Yep you will need the 323mm LCR disc ( unique to the brembo caliper ) and concerning brake lines most of us use braided lines either Goodridge or Hel which replace the hard metal pipe / rubber brake lines that are used as standard.... for what you plan on doing a set of DS2500 will be pretty much perfect


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

Spandex said:


> I think the point some people are trying to make is that changing the calipers doesn't necessarily give you 'better' braking though. And even if it does, the gains will be minimal compared to the improvements you'll get from upgrading other braking components.
> 
> People can modify their cars any way they want, but it's important to be honest about the reasons for doing it and the actual real-world effects. There's nothing wrong with fitting a massive bbk if you like the look of them (or you're saving weight, etc), but it's misleading to then tell everyone that it has massively changed the stopping distance, or that you have to have a bbk once you get over 'x' bhp.


^^^ Pretty much sums it up! It's not in the number of pots that you're going to get the meaningful improvement in stopping distance. Unfortunately, many posts here would lead one to believe that's the case however.


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## Beunhaas (May 14, 2014)

Madmax199 said:


> Spandex said:
> 
> 
> > I think the point some people are trying to make is that changing the calipers doesn't necessarily give you 'better' braking though. And even if it does, the gains will be minimal compared to the improvements you'll get from upgrading other braking components.
> ...


Maybe a good or bad advice button + counter can be added so s can be filtered from usefull info [smiley=book2.gif]


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## Mondo (Feb 20, 2009)

'k's sake; pretty much any BBK will provide better braking than the OEM calipers/pads. And yes, better pads and fresh/better brake fluid will _also _provide better braking than the OEM calipers/pads. Horses for courses; if you want form and function, go BBK. If you just want function (and to save a bit of wonga), go with better pads etc.

I value the former. I'm happy my braking is better than it was and yes, the calipers look better than the grey (and even painted red) that I had. I'm happy, and any dissenters can go feck themselves - 'cause I didn't do it for y'all; I did it for me. 

OP, I'm sure you'll be happy with the BBK you got. You will stop better than you were before, and they'll look better to boot.

Happy days.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Let's hope we all don't bump into each other on a dark and stormy night with poor road conditions :lol: Imagine the insurance claim! Hopefully we've all reported our brake mods too :wink:


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