# INSOMNIA



## mrs coope (Mar 24, 2007)

*I CAN'T SLEEP!
AAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!*

I am SO tired, but I can't sleep....

This is happening a lot & it's really beginning to pi$$ me off BIG TIME!

I could quite happily nod off around 2 in the afternoon, or during the evening wilst watching TV, or as soon as the alarm goes off - I turn over & find the ultimate comfy spot in our bed that sends me into the land of nod as easily & quickly as Paul McKenna does one of his victims.....

......but during the night? Nope, wide awake!

Sometimes I find browsing the internet/ebay/tt forum relaxes me & I start missing letters as I type & am ready to snuggle down, but not tonight & it's now 4am!! [smiley=bigcry.gif]

SO flaming tired, I think I'll try anyway.....

If anyone's got any tried & trusted remedies I'd love to hear some.....

thanks


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Oh god, been there done that... :roll:

This happens to me a lot too. A typical day is wake up around 5.30am, get up at 6, go to the gym to get physically tired, go to work, sit in front of a computer all day (YAWN!) then come home feeling dog tired. Have a few glasses of vino and then eat around 8.30. By 10pm I'm ready for bed but generally go up around 11. I then take around 30 minutes to drop off. [smiley=baby.gif]

By 2am I'm tossing and turning. I sometimes have some pretty weird dreams too. I then doze until 5.30 again and unless I drop off again (which is the best sleep of the whole night) I get up. :evil:

At weekends the pattern is much the same except I go to the gym around 9 before breakfast, then return around midday for brunch. By 2pm I'm ready for a doze on the sofa and this can be as little as 30 minutes or as much as 2 hours. Then the evening and night is much the same as a weekday. :?

It's most frustrating. My wife suffers with it too and we've put it down to stress, our mattress, eating too late and alcohol. When we were in Scottsdale on honeymoon last year we had a huge bed and slept like babies despite eating late and drinking like fish... :mrgreen:

So what causes it, I don't know. I DO know that not drinking makes my heartbeat slow right down and a glass of milk seems to chill me (Yes it's straight from the fridge! :lol: ) Sex helps too... :wink:

Cheers

Rich


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## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

mrs coope said:


> If anyone's got any tried & trusted remedies I'd love to hear some.....


A damn good seeing to. So ...when shall I pop over? :-*


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## scott28tt (Jul 30, 2002)

I've found in the past that when I've had a period of insomnia, I just needed to break the cycle.

Taking a Nytol does it for me. I take them for 2 or maybe 3 nights back-to-back, and it seems to totally reset me.

If you're not sleeping, and it may be caused by general stress or a specific thing, not sleeping just adds to it! Hence my remedy for whenever I feel like this.

Scott.


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## ChadW (May 2, 2003)

Oh great got that Faithless riff in my head now, LETS AVE IT! 8) :lol:


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## mrs coope (Mar 24, 2007)

Private Prozac said:


> mrs coope said:
> 
> 
> > If anyone's got any tried & trusted remedies I'd love to hear some.....
> ...


  
Thanks for the offer Hun, but Mr Coope already obliged on that front, & normally I'd be asleep in seconds with a massive smile playing on my lips but for some reason last night just didn't have the same result :?

.....reckon we should try again tonight - just to see.... :wink:


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## mrs coope (Mar 24, 2007)

rustyintegrale said:


> Oh god, been there done that... :roll:
> 
> It's most frustrating. My wife suffers with it too and we've put it down to stress, our mattress, eating too late and alcohol. When we were in Scottsdale on honeymoon last year we had a huge bed and slept like babies despite eating late and drinking like fish... :mrgreen:
> 
> ...


Hey Rich,

it's a pain isn't it?! Coope had never experienced it until recently when he was on some monster pain killers for a dislodged disc that stopped him sleeping, so at least now I have his understanding.... mind you he wasn't too understanding whilst sending out the zs last night! [smiley=zzz.gif] :?

I know what you mean about stress - we've shed loads of that at the mo :? (mind you, who hasn't?!), our mattress is new(ish) & really comf :roll: we do often eat late, once we've got the wee'ns settled & do enjoy a glass or three of vino [smiley=cheers.gif], we've not had our summer holiday yet but in six weeks we'll be away for a glorious two whole weeks of sun, sea, sand, sangria, sleep... & plenty of other things beginning with "s" :roll:

- but I think I'll try your last suggestion tonight anyway :wink:

.......as long as I can get Coope of the Forum!! :? 

Hi to Mrs Rich too....

Lucy


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

INSOMNIA I will have to sleep on that


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

Really feel for all those insomniacs out there. For me its totally the other way round, Sleeping .....no problem, getting out of bed now thats a different matter.

On a serious note, change your bed..........makes a massive difference


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## mrs coope (Mar 24, 2007)

YELLOW_TT said:


> INSOMNIA I will have to sleep on that


LUCKY YOU!! :roll:


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## fishface (Nov 25, 2006)

mrs coope said:


> *I CAN'T SLEEP!
> AAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!*
> 
> I am SO tired, but I can't sleep....
> ...


If you can get hold of some try Melatonin, it works for me overcoming jet-lag http://melatonin-info.co.uk/index.html


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## Molehall (Jan 8, 2003)

Try a sleep clinic. Should be available on NHS.

Or a hypnotist or hypnotic tapes.


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## mrs coope (Mar 24, 2007)

fishface said:


> If you can get hold of some try Melatonin, it works for me overcoming jet-lag http://melatonin-info.co.uk/index.html


Thanks for the link Fishface, sounds good....

...& as I'm here at 4am (AGAIN!) I'll try & get hold of some later on today......


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## mrs coope (Mar 24, 2007)

scott28tt said:


> I've found in the past that when I've had a period of insomnia, I just needed to break the cycle.
> 
> Taking a Nytol does it for me. I take them for 2 or maybe 3 nights back-to-back, and it seems to totally reset me.
> 
> ...


Hey Scott28tt, 
sorry, I missed your post earlier  , I agree with you that I need to break the cycle, it really seems to be forming a pattern.... I did try Nytol some years ago but seemed to have the reverse reaction, the same thing happened when I used Valerian in oil form which is a bit of a bummer :? none of my sedative aromatherapy oils seems to work on me - talk about healer heal thyself [smiley=huh2.gif] .... think I'll try the melatonin that fishface suggested though...

As for stressed, yes quite a bit at the mo - but then who isn't these days?! :? certainly nothing that won't sort itself in the fullness of time.... hopefully.... but you're right, lack of sleep doesn't help!! 

Lucy


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## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

mrs coope said:


> ...but Mr Coope already obliged on that front, & normally I'd be asleep in seconds


He's _that_ good is he? :lol:

I think that's where you're going wrong babe! :wink: :-*


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

Hi Lucy,

Well as an experiment Louise and I tried a night of no alcohol and eating early. We were in bed by 11 and by 1.30am I was awake... :? Lou's sleep patterns were already upset because she got back from LA yesterday afternoon and by bedtime was wide awake again... :?

I woke again at 3, then 5.30. I eventually got up at 6, went to the gym and worked out. Left there at 9 feeling shattered. Lou is still asleep in bed, bless her, and I'm at work struggling to maintain interest in anything. Just feel like going home... :lol:

We haven't had a holiday this year either. We were meant to be going to Whistler at Christmas with the rest of our immediate family but the credit crunch has put paid to us going. This has been an expensive year for us and I can't see it getting better anytime soon... :evil:

I just wanna emigrate and leave this miserable, wet, overcrowded place behind... 

Cheers

Rich [smiley=bomb.gif]


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## mrs coope (Mar 24, 2007)

Private Prozac said:


> mrs coope said:
> 
> 
> > ...but Mr Coope already obliged on that front, & normally I'd be asleep in seconds
> ...


  :lol: I meant AFTER..... :roll:

.........you know that lovely yummy cosy tingly place that spreads all the way up from your toes through every cell in your entire body & all that's left is sated bliss........ hhhhhhhhmmmmmmm [smiley=sweetheart.gif]

......... or maybe you can't remember that far back??! :?  

.....& yes he _*is*_ _*THAT*_ good! :wink: (YAY ME!!)


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Listen to the shipping forecast :roll:

Joe


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## Wallsendmag (Feb 12, 2004)

I've got a DVD of Newcastle from last season thats bound to work.


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## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

mrs coope said:


> ........ or maybe you can't remember that far back??! :?


 :lol: Touche!


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

mrs coope said:


> *I CAN'T SLEEP!
> AAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!*
> 
> I am SO tired, but I can't sleep....
> ...


The best things to do are meditation or a relaxing hypnotherapy recording you listen to before you want to drift off


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## mrs coope (Mar 24, 2007)

A3DFU said:


> The best things to do are meditation or a relaxing hypnotherapy recording you listen to before you want to drift off


Hey Dani,

tried all of them :? , trouble is all my own "tried & testeds" just don't seem to be doing the trick at the mo.... [smiley=huh2.gif]

I thought I'd cracked it tonight though, went to bed totally whacked, fell sound asleep within minutes, [smiley=sleeping.gif] then at 3am my baby girl (well, I say baby - she''ll be 4 on the 28th but she'll always be my baby! [smiley=baby.gif] ) came & woke me up because she wanted a cuddle, bless her. Once I'd settled her down I was wide awake....

SO, here I am again, this time with hot chocolate :wink: I'll browse a few more threads, finish my drink & snuggle back in next to Coope....


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Hi Lucy,

I suppose you have tried a milky drink before bed? I know dairy isn't good at all and I would never advocate it but it does aid with sleep [smiley=sleeping.gif]


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

I went through that. It'll be some worry playing in your mind. Sort out your worries and the sleep will return. If that's not possible there is the Nightol (NOT herbal that's a placebo) option to break the cycle. A hot bath may help too. Long term you need to be more relaxed.


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

John-H said:


> I went through that.


I've been going through 'that' for 10 years, got any ideas? :lol: :lol:

Until I emigrate the problem will be there. Roll on Arizona...

Cheers

Rich


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## head_ed (Dec 10, 2002)

I am going through exactly the same thing myself at the moment, I have bouts of really bad insomnia & I am in the middle of a doozie!

So I can put some of it down to disruption due to jet lag, but for the last few nights I just haven't been able to sleep. I lay in bed last night counting the hours round to 6am, by which time I get an hour before the alarm goes off :evil:

I have tried every method mentioned & nothing seems to work. Sorry, nothing to add to be of help - just wanted you to know that you're not on your own.

Mart.


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## Hallyfella (Mar 5, 2007)

Sounds like your Ying and Yang are all to cock !. Try repositioning your bed so that your feet face south. And make sure you dont have a mirror facing an open door, if that doesnt work re decorate your bedroom in one night . It will soon make you sleepy. :roll:


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## phodge (Sep 1, 2002)

I always find a good kip normally sorts things out!! :roll:

Seriously though, if I get a night or two where I can't sleep, I make an effort to stay up all night and not even try and sleep. I find that this resets my body clock and the next night I sleep right through...and continue to do so.

Dunno if that might help?


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

I've just had a Phall - that will keep me awake :roll:


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

the stig said:


> Sounds like your Ying and Yang are all to cock !. Try repositioning your bed so that *your feet face south.* And make sure you dont have a mirror facing an open door, if that doesnt work re decorate your bedroom in one night . It will soon make you sleepy. :roll:


That would depend on what type you are. My feet should point west but then it is my head that points west. Unfortunately I also have morriors facing me and an open door. I still sleep very well indeed but I have taken Feng Shui steps to counter act the things I can't change. And I meditate 2x per day


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## denTTed (Feb 21, 2007)

You should try working shifts, that makes you sleep. I always find that if i do do that waking in the middle of the night I usually have something on my mind, stupid things like a conversation i know i am having with somebody tomorrow, not even an important one. Or reviewing the day I've just had, because I can do so much about it now in bed. I tried to write all the thoughts down, settled back down, and then my mind (being a number person) tries to work out how much capital is being paid off my house each day FFS, each day!!! make it easy why don't you (I admit I got up and put a spreadsheet together for that night, when I finished it I looked at it and said, yeh thats what I made it too).

My advice is, no booze, clean sheets washed that day, window open and a view of the sky. Sometimes thoughts of ex girlfriends take my mind off bigger issues, but I have found that to be counter productive as my heart starts to race and I get stirrings, and I call the wife Sammy, She knows who I'm talking about, back to big issues we go but this time with a burning sensation just below the abdomen. I always eat late due to my job, so I'm not sure that has a lot to do with it, he says admiting he does wake at 4 most nights.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Bad karma can cause sleepless nights. Make sure yours is in good shape. :wink: That way the trivia that we can allow to clog up our thoughts, will pale into insignificance. And if you do wake you can just lie there happy to be alive. It's not about sleeping, it's as much about regenerative resting. 

Times i can't sleep, I just pop on the ipod and listen to some soporific music in the darkness, lay there still and quiet, and allow myself to drift away. The adaggio from the Mozart Clarinet Concerto works a treat...


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Also: bedrooms should be a sanctuary of calm and peace i.e. NO television, computer and preferably no electric cables/sockets. If you have electric equipment in your bedroom then put a big Rose Quartz next to it. better still, grid your bedroom with 7 (smaller) Rose Quartz crystals  
http://www.mindandbodytherapies.co.uk/h ... aling.html


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

A3DFU said:


> Also: bedrooms should be a sanctuary of calm and peace i.e. NO television, computer and preferably no electric cables/sockets. If you have electric equipment in your bedroom then put a big Rose Quartz next to it. better still, grid your bedroom with 7 (smaller) Rose Quartz crystals
> http://www.mindandbodytherapies.co.uk/h ... aling.html


Hey Dani...

Roll me another fat one... :wink: :lol:

Cheers

Rich


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## slg (May 6, 2005)

No TV, computer in the bedroom - what else is there to do!!!! (where can I put the ps3 as the kids aren't getting it!)


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## Hallyfella (Mar 5, 2007)

A3DFU said:


> Also: bedrooms should be a sanctuary of calm and peace i.e. NO television, computer and preferably no electric cables/sockets. If you have electric equipment in your bedroom then put a big Rose Quartz next to it. better still, grid your bedroom with 7 (smaller) Rose Quartz crystals
> http://www.mindandbodytherapies.co.uk/h ... aling.html


Are you sure your not my missus in disguise? Thats all the stuff she comes out with, also she is a master of Reiki and believe me that stuff works.
If ive had a bad day or two she works her magic and im all stress free and ready for a cold Stella or two MMMM perfick :wink:


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Actually Reiki is probably good for insomnia - always sends me to sleep anyway :roll:


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## rustyintegrale (Oct 1, 2006)

John-H said:


> Actually Reiki is probably good for insomnia - always sends me to sleep anyway :roll:


Well maybe you're closer to it than you pretend to be... 

Rich


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

the stig said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> > Also: bedrooms should be a sanctuary of calm and peace i.e. NO television, computer and preferably no electric cables/sockets. If you have electric equipment in your bedroom then put a big Rose Quartz next to it. better still, grid your bedroom with 7 (smaller) Rose Quartz crystals
> ...


I am sure that I am not YOUR missus!! But I know that Reiki works. And it works extremely well as I have shown with many of my clients. It heals, relaxes and is generally very beneficial
http://www.mindandbodytherapies.co.uk/html/reiki.html



John-H said:


> Actually Reiki is probably good for insomnia - always sends me to sleep anyway :roll:


Perhaps the person giving you Reiki is just exceptionally good :wink:



rustyintegrale said:


> John-H said:
> 
> 
> > Actually Reiki is probably good for insomnia - always sends me to sleep anyway :roll:
> ...


Pretence, hey :roll: Keeping up appearances :wink:

But Reiki is mega!!
I wish I would have easy access to a *really* good pratitioner/master. But the best one I know is 40 miles away


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## phodge (Sep 1, 2002)

A3DFU said:


> But Reiki is mega!!
> I wish I would have easy access to a *really* good pratitioner/master. But the best one I know is 40 miles away


And I thought that the best practitioner you know was always with you...? :wink:


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

phodge said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> > But Reiki is mega!!
> ...


Sorry, no, Penny. 
The very best practitioner/master I know of is a doctor of alternative medicine in Stoke-on-Trent, who taught me up to Master Teacher level.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

A3DFU said:


> phodge said:
> 
> 
> > A3DFU said:
> ...


Grasshopper?








:wink:


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

garyc said:


> Grasshopper?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Try a different name :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## mrs coope (Mar 24, 2007)

A3DFU said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > Grasshopper?
> ...


...USUI??? :wink:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Have to say Dani, I agree with you - the best Reiki Master I know around here is me 

Thanks for all the tips Guys & Gals [smiley=thumbsup.gif] , a lot of you made me realise that I'm not alone & that half the problem was worry of some sort or another & also that I should be able to "treat" myself as I would any client..... talk about "healer heal thyself" :roll:

.....so, I've taken several tips from this thread & leaves out of my own book too & now every time I find myself awake or unable to sleep I dismiss every negative worry that I have absolutely no control over, (afterall it's just a waste of energy!) & make a positive plan about the rest; [smiley=idea2.gif] "Let me be granted the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can & the wisdom to know the difference!"

I'm focusing far more on all the things I have to be thankful for & look for the blessings in everything - sometimes they may be a bit hard to find, but they ARE there! :wink:

I feel more content, I have more energy, & YES, I am sleeping better too!! [smiley=zzz.gif]

Lucy


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

I found when i was at my lowest during bouts off depression i couldn't sleep. As i had depression for such along time without it being diagnosed properly i have spent the best part off my life awake. Then when i eventually got diagnosed and put on medication. Within a couple off weeks when my body said it was time for bed. I am asleep before my head hit the pillow and enjoy proper nights sleep pretty much every night. Not saying you have depression. Far from it. But a trip to the quacks just for a chat may not be a bad thing. Afterall i didnt even know i had depression for the best part off 32 years. Things like insomia are easy to dismiss as stress etc. But it wouldnt hurt to find out if it is symtm of somethnig else.


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Too true - I don't like flying but on the odd occasion I have got on a plane against my better judgement, I've not worried about it on the basis that - now I'm committed, what will happen will happen without my influence, so worry will only give me a bad time, so there's no need or point in worrying!


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## mrs coope (Mar 24, 2007)

genocidalduck said:


> I found when i was at my lowest during bouts off depression i couldn't sleep. As i had depression for such along time without it being diagnosed properly i have spent the best part off my life awake. Then when i eventually got diagnosed and put on medication. Within a couple off weeks when my body said it was time for bed. I am asleep before my head hit the pillow and enjoy proper nights sleep pretty much every night. Not saying you have depression. Far from it. But a trip to the quacks just for a chat may not be a bad thing. Afterall i didnt even know i had depression for the best part off 32 years. Things like insomia are easy to dismiss as stress etc. But it wouldnt hurt to find out if it is symtm of somethnig else.


...... you know, I was going to send you a pm about this but decided to post my reply here & feel good about doing so....

.....I suffered from post natal depression after our first daughter was born (although at the time I didn't recognise it as that) - it was awful but I managed to come through it (eventually) on my own.... I fell pregnant with our baby girl (who'll be 4 on sunday!) & all was looking rosy - Coope had been head hunted & was on a fantastic package, we had sold my old flat & had money in the bank so I was looking to give up work & be a stop at home Mummy & just "cherry pick" the more lucrative side of my work to fit around home & the children....

Always conciencious (sure that's spelt wrong!) Coope had saved some of his holiday throughout the year to take when I had the new baby, 10 days into his two weeks he was called in & made redundant....... We survived on savings & my maternity pay for 6 months before the market picked up & he found a new job, I then had to return to work as my salary was essential....

I was diagnosed with post natal/reactive depression when Maddie was 18 months old, I'd been fighting it again on my own & it was only picked up when I changed to a different surgery by my new Health Visitor & Doctor, both of whom had also suffered & knew exactly what I was going through..... It took me a further 10 months to find the right medication to help me as I kept having horrendous side affects......

Sometimes I think the tablets aren't working, but I know they are, but we've had such a turbulent year (again!) I know they are levelling & helping me to cope & my reactions to current stressors are normal.... as much as one could say they are typical....

So, you are spot on, yes I do suffer with depression, I reckon a lot of people do & feel it's something to be ashamed of - it's not.... We live in stressfull times.... We might not be able to change what happens but we do have the ability to seek help & do something pro-active about it & help us through - shit, it beats wanting to throw yourself in front of a train or kill your babies before you kill yourself & I know how both of those feel....

Like I said before - I count my blessings every day......


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

mrs coope said:


> A3DFU said:
> 
> 
> > garyc said:
> ...


Could be :lol: :lol:


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## genocidalduck (May 19, 2005)

mrs coope said:


> genocidalduck said:
> 
> 
> > Sometimes I think the tablets aren't working, but I know they are, but we've had such a turbulent year (again!) I know they are levelling & helping me to cope & my reactions to current stressors are normal.... as much as one could say they are typical....
> ...


I have the problem sometimes with thinking the pills arnt having much off an effect. However you soon realise like i did. That taking yourself off them like i have done on occasions. Realise just how much they do help. But even with taking medication. You still have to be pro-active in battling against it. I find the tablets help in a give you kick up the backside kind off way. As most who have depression would know. It isn't a case off just going to the doctors. Most i know and most things i've read. Will tell you, you need help getting help. I would constantly miss doctors appointments because it was left down to me. Wasnt till my friends took it upon themselves to drag me there i eventually started to turn up to them.

No it isnt something to be ashamed off. I've pretty much always been honest with myself and others. So i make no secret off it. In my job as being a cabbie. You are always in a situation where you are one on one with people. If for some reason the subject comes up. I'm quite open about my illness. You'd be surprised the amount off times i've heard someone then admit they suffer from it. People may go on about cab drivers constantly talking and annoying. But you would be surprised how much people tell us. Rather than tell it to the people that are close to them and to the people they should be telling. Honestly doing my job is like being a driver and shoulder for most people. I guess majority off people find it easier to tell a complete stranger their problems than someone they know.


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## mrs coope (Mar 24, 2007)

genocidalduck said:


> I guess majority off people find it easier to tell a complete stranger their problems than someone they know.


.... too true, but that's probably because usually people get more sympathy or empathy from complete strangers .... :?

There are incredible risks attached to opening up to people you are close to, especially if they rely on you to be strong for them... there is also the fear that they will lose respect for you or see you differently & may no longer feel the same way about you or hold you in the same regard (all of which amount to the same thing I guess) then follows the fear that they may start to treat you differently or ultimately (& possible the most awful) use what you have told them against you..... 

The great thing about telling a stranger is that none of the above really matters - it's not likely that you'll ever see them again, they will have part in your life, they aren't going to run around & blab to all your friends or family because they don't know them.... telling a stranger is a safe bet... there is no emotional attachment or payback... :wink:

.....which is probably also why some of us open up on forums like this one..... I know a lot of people who write on here have come to know each other but for many of us (like me) this is not the case (although the few people I have met have been great), our "relationship" - such as it is - is limited & has no emotional attachment so it's safe.....


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

Lucy

I've had chats with Jamie about this already.

I'm just on my way out of my 3rd depression since 2000, this was the longest and most difficult. I know the difference between 'stress related illness' and depression now, having suffered both, and have something which will remain as a reminder I don't want to go back there. I've made a big difference by reworking a lot of beliefs and attitudes, and reading - 'The Power of Now' by Eckhart Tolle was great for me, plus a number of depression books. I think there are most on my shelf, some clicked some didn't.

If natural sources don't help, go to your GP and get some Zopiclone, 7.5mg. Just don't take it every night as it is addictive, just use it get the pattern back. BTW you are lucky to still have sex with a 4 year old around ;-)


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## mrs coope (Mar 24, 2007)

R6B TT said:


> ....... BTW you are lucky to still have sex with a 4 year old around ;-)


 :lol: You're not wrong there!! :lol:


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Friends, I am runing a seminar on 29th and 30th November which I know is beneficial to you peeps how have 'come clean'
Check this out if you are interested in the amazing* FreewayCER* system

http://www.mindandbodytherapies.co.uk/html/courses.html


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