# Cold Air Intake Induction Kit



## Daleondo (Jul 26, 2017)

Before I get a remap I'm considering fitting one of the above. However the range in prices are amazing, I know all about K n N, I put a basic k & n mat filter in my air box back in August when I got my car. I'm not expecting much of a noticebale difference in HP and I'm not a speed merchant anyway, I like the 'stuck back in your seat with your face stretched flat' feeling on acceleration, that's what floats my boat but I also know an air filter isn't going to do that either. I would like any air filter to give me a nice throaty growl if possible. Anyone who has read my entries since I joined knows I don't work through multiple health issues so cash is a bit tight but any I have spare I'd rather put it into my car to give me some cheer. As usual, any answers are deeply appreciated and my usual caveat counts........, please explain in a way your hamster would understand such is my low knowledge level in comparison to many on here.


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## TT Tom TT (Oct 9, 2015)

For a throaty growl I would recommend looking into the "Wakbox", you can amplify this effect further by replacing the drop-in filter with a foam equivalent.

Foam filters are the best for growling in a plastic amplifying airbox. They seem to absorb the high pitched frequencies leaving only the deep tones.

Given what you want, DO NOT go for a cone filter!


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## 3TT3 (Aug 30, 2014)

Wakbox mod is cheap ok  ,but if spending £'s a proper stage 1 remap from Wak or wherever will give you more than "sound".
By the time you add in the cost of an induction kit and a larger TIP you wont have anywhere near the value of a stage 1 remap on standard components.


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

TT Tom TT said:


> For a throaty growl I would recommend looking into the "Wakbox", you can amplify this effect further by replacing the drop-in filter with a foam equivalent.
> 
> Foam filters are the best for growling in a plastic amplifying airbox. They seem to absorb the high pitched frequencies leaving only the deep tones.
> 
> Given what you want, DO NOT go for a cone filter!


Seconded


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## Tom8N (Dec 16, 2017)

Oooo what is a wak box? These sound good.


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## J4CKO (Sep 11, 2010)

Remove standard airbox and with a hole saw in a drill, make the bottom half look like Swiss Cheese, makes more noise and seems to have no downsides, I did mine, half an hour if that, just get rid of all the plastic bits diligently.

Loads of stuff if you google.


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

http://wak-tt.com/mods/ramair/cheapinduction.htm


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## Tom8N (Dec 16, 2017)

Very interesting thanks for that


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## emtiem (Jan 17, 2011)

So I've had a remap from Wak a couple of years back; will an induction kit give me any power advantage? And will the remap be affected? I'm not very interested in noise.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

You don't need a cold air induction as the turbo will heat the air back up, an FMIC is a better investment for a K04 1.8T

This is my intake
B5 V3 TIP, plus heat shield /MAF holder and fabric S2000 air filter. With a minor map tweak for load and lambda is producing 210g/s at 18psi ( 0.9 lambda , 28 IAT and 820 EGT)

I haven't added my FMIC yet, that should allow 20psi.










The sound has a rasp rather than a growl.


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## HOGG (Mar 30, 2018)

I've gone for uprated side mounts


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## longodds (May 8, 2014)

3TT3 said:


> Wakbox mod is cheap ok  ,but if spending £'s a proper stage 1 remap from Wak or wherever will give you more than "sound".
> By the time you add in the cost of an induction kit and a larger TIP you wont have anywhere near the value of a stage 1 remap on standard components.


Good advice and welcome back 3TT3.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

HOGG said:


> I've gone for uprated side mounts


What a waste of money. Sorry for your loss...

They might not be that bad, but I have only heard bad things compared to an FMIC. But considering my TT SMICs are performing better than some people's FMIC I don't know.

I wish I got an airtec FMIC with single silicon pipes for each side to reduce the amount of connections.

It would be great to see some logs of the IAT ( Intake Air Temperature) for a 3rd gear pull. I have some logs from my stock SMICs so we can compare with your forge alloy indeed and then my Welly cooler in a couple of weeks?

Do you have ME7Logger etc?


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## HOGG (Mar 30, 2018)

I'm afraid not ño.

My reasoning behind uprated side mounts opposed to the idea of a front mount is less lag. 
A huge front mount takes some filling....


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

StuartDB said:


> HOGG said:
> 
> 
> > I've gone for uprated side mounts
> ...


So you have no data to compare and you're saying it's a waste of money. Outstanding!!!

As for comparing IAT from different setups, this thread I made a while back might help. The log pics are gone due to photobucket going full retard, but the numbers are still there on the few entries.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1362113&p=7501625&hilit=Intercooler+registry#p7501625


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Don't you run multi nozzle meth injection and E85 madmax? I recall your discussions with Bill on ASN, if not my mistake.
The point seems to be that some people think FMICs look chavvy or similar but they are proven to be more effective than SMIC forge updated or not. But as I said earlier even with the stock SMIC I am currently getting reasonable IATs but only on 18psi


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

Yes, I ran a 7-nozzle water injection with pump gas, I ran E85 in tandem with the multi-port water injection, and now I run a FMIC and just E85. For heat exchange I ran the stock SMICs, I ran with one single SMIC and deleted one, Air-to-liquid intercooling, and now use a tube-and-fin FMIC. All of these were mostly dictated by the racing classes that I competed in and the specific allowances.

But that has nothing to do with the conversation, blindly saying that uprated SMIC is a waste of money is not a statement to make. There are FMICs that are good, and others that are downright hopeless... same goes for SMICs. A set of Tyrolsport uprated SMICS is better than a very good portion of the FMICs I have seen used and praised in the 1.8t world. So the statement is not accounting for the fact that not all coolers are created equal, and you can generalize based on the type alone.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

okay so percentage wise a £70 toyo sports welly cooler with 64mm inlet and outlet and the right size will be more efficient than buying forge aluminium SMICs for £???.

were your tests with using an SMIC after you injected meth pre-turbo - it's a blanket statement that FMICs are "generally" more efficient than uprated SMIC

below is from REVO suggesting uprated SMIC will still limit the potential of their stage 2 map.


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

StuartDB said:


> okay so percentage wise a £70 toyo sports welly cooler with 64mm inlet and outlet and the right size will be more efficient than buying forge aluminium SMICs for £???.
> 
> were your tests with using an SMIC after you injected meth pre-turbo - it's a blanket statement that FMICs are "generally" more efficient than uprated SMIC
> 
> below is from REVO suggesting uprated SMIC will still limit the potential of their stage 2 map.


Stuart, I never used "meth" ever ... way too corrosive for the car and too dangerous to handle. I also ran straight water with only small percentage of alcohol in a short period of the winter to prevent freezing. Yes I ran pre-turbo injection at some point, it was my 7th nozzle. Not sure if the questions about what I ran at some point (I have ran anything there is to run at some point) have to do with the fact that some uprated SMIC are pretty good tested next to the random SMIC people slap on these cars.

I am not disputing that there are good FMICS, but the generalization made simply on the type is flawed. I have also tuned and played with many other TTs besides mine to forge the conclusion I have. I'd take a set of Tyrolsport SMICs any day over a Forge FMIC for the TT for example. The price maybe a deterrent but some don't care about that - another aspect not brought up with FMICs is that they block the radiator causing coolant system inefficiencies if the car is pushed hard. This is a well documented issue that all the tracked TTs can attest to, a FMIC solves one thing but creates another issue. Obviously this can be solved by upgrading the radiator, adding an external oil cooler, and venting the bonnet. But those extra cost and steps are never taken into account when comparing the budget of FMICS and SMICS.

The fact remains that not all coolers are created equal, there are good and bad, pros and cons, in both configurations.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

http://www.tyrolsport.com/tt-smic-detail

Some charts for these, and then some comparisons of stock versus FMIC! 65 degree centrigrade is pretty hot, irrespective of the stock figures, my understanding was you want to keep them less than 35 to avoid timing pull and pretty expensive at 1200 US Dollars - that's about £900 (I spent £1800 on my whole car)

I'm going to stop this now, I do feel sorry for anyone buying uprated SMIC they are expensive and the only person bigging them up has a FMIC instead, REVO (generic maps I know) exclude them from their minimum hardware requirements for a stage 2 map only expected to make between 247-275 BHP for a 1.8T BAM/AMK/BFV











































An Airtec FMIC is expensive at £450 but that does include the TT / S3 custom silicon hoses.


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## Madmax199 (Jun 14, 2015)

StuartDB said:


> my understanding was you want to keep them less than 35 to avoid timing pull
> 
> I'm going to stop this now, I do feel sorry for anyone buying uprated SMIC they are expensive


1) Your understanding is incorrect

2) Yeah, you better stop this now because you're all over the place trying back up a point that cannot logically... nor technically, be backed up. Yes, the best upgraded SMIC offering is expensive. Go get a Garret core FMIC kit from FFE or PPT and you'll rethink what expensive is in terms of Intercooling kits for the TT.

I'm not sure if you realize but the way you're attempting to compare the heat exchangers are totally flawed. You don't look at absolute figures with heat exchangers, you look a the temperature delta. Initial IAT vs terminal IAT. But I'll leave you with it with the same statement I made before. There are good and bad FMICs, just like there are good and bad SMICs - discussion was never about looking at cost of 1 particular brand or what I run in my car. Again what I run is dictated by racing class rules, not by preference or efficiency. Given an open class rule, I'd go back to water injection and SMICs in a heartbeat. What I run right now is a happy medium compromise between charge cooling, weight, pressure drop, and effect on coolant system within my racing rules. And one last time irrelevant to the comparison between FMICs and SMICs.


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