# Brand new broken TTS upon pick up



## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

I went to pick up my brand new factory order TTS today, upon arrival first thing the salesmen said he would go check how they are getting on in the valeting booth. He came back and said it didn't sound right and wasn't idleing correctly so he was going to get it up on the ramps. He then came back and said they would need to keep the car, I could take another tts home away and he would deliver the car to me this evening. The salesmen delivered the car this evening and all was good. Soon as I set off on my first drive the engine management light comes on. :roll:

I know this isn't the salesmen's fault and He has seemed to try and bend over backwards for me to get this resolved (bought me and audi watch when he delivered the car) but it's still taken the shine off having my new £45k car and the whole brand new audi process s it was delivered with 30 motorway miles before I'd even seen it and having the hand over on my drive.

The car is now going back to audi tomorrow (50 mile round trip) and hopefully I will have it back tomorrow night.

What's other people's thoughts/opinions ? May I also point out they have had the car for nearly 2 weeks sat doing nothing because I've been on holiday in which all this ahiuld have been checked and checked again.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, I suppose it must happen to all marques, but must be so annoying & sorry it had to be you.
2 weeks notice to check it over & still not correct is very poor service from Audi.  
Let's hope they compensate you for the delays.
Hoggy.


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## Reasty (Feb 6, 2015)

Really sorry to hear this and i agree its a very poor show from audi and must of taken the excitement right out of getting it which is really sad because it is defiantly a car to be excited about,if you didnt get the tech pack maybe a free retro fit of the navigation may soften the blow :roll: its defiantly worth an ask and literally takes an audi technician about 1 hour to activate.


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## EvilTed (Feb 5, 2016)

My concern wouldn't be about the delays, it would be about the fact that there is clearly something significantly wrong with the car. Not just an aesthetic blemish but something in the guts of the thing.
That thought would never leave me no matter how much technician time they put in. This car is sick.

If an option, I'd reject it and get another one!


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

Yeah. Think I'd want to know exactly what was wrong with it and what have they done to fix it.

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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

The first problem was something to do with the dipstick not being fastened down enough and caused an air leak into the system causing the lumpy idle.

I'm Not sure weather this engine management light is anything do with that or not but he said the light wasn't on when he drove it to be delivered to me.


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## ChadW (May 2, 2003)

Sorry for you mate, things happen at the end of the day but obviously people try and get away with less work for them to do to resolve. A new car costing £45k from a prestige marque should have no issues on the day imho. If there were then they should have ensured the car was perfect again before giving it to you. Yes they did the right thing to give a courtesy car but not sure they should have driven your new one to you so soon and now you have issues to resolve as an after sales customer rather than a new order customer. Which dealer was this btw? Hope it gets sorted though and you get compensation, have you contacted Audi customer services too as they should be told about this. The reason for the issue is obviously human error if the dipstick was not put in right and this needs to be escalated imho.

Ultimately if it was me then I would simply reject the thing, Get another built and drive a courtesy TTS from them in the meantime. Also get a free servicing package as compensation for the trouble. That would be the least I would expect.

Guilty now for moaning to myself that I did not get any chocolates or champagne on handover with my new car but at least the car itself was fine.


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## Rob180bhp (Oct 8, 2017)

Personally I wouldn't take delivery of it now, could end up with a lifetime of issues

Reject it, if it was tv or sofa you would, so why should a car be any different

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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

I don't want to start naming garages/people unless I start having real problems. I think I'll wait and see what they say once they have it back at the garage and what the engine management light has come on for.


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## Mark Pred (Feb 1, 2017)

When we collected our Golf R (missis' car) about 5 miles away from the showroom the aircon went bang. We then got pissed around by VW for three weeks whilst they tried to get the parts. The loan car they gave us was a tiny one litre Polo, which was a joke. Anyway, we got them to give us the first service free by way of compensation. Could be worth asking the question. Hope you get it sorted quickly and can then begin to enjoy your car.


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## Rob180bhp (Oct 8, 2017)

It's not acceptable full stop..... I'd want a different car

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## barry_m2 (Jun 29, 2015)

Rob180bhp said:


> It's not acceptable full stop..... I'd want a different car


Totally agree. If id just spent £45k on a car and it threw up errors and issues after a few days I'd reject it and ask for a new one.


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## BillTheButcher (Oct 24, 2017)

Do you have to let them try to fix a new car before you can reject it?


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## barry_m2 (Jun 29, 2015)

BillTheButcher said:


> Do you have to let them try to fix a new car before you can reject it?


Sounds like they've already had it two weeks+ to put a dipstick back in place!?


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

barry_m2 said:


> BillTheButcher said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have to let them try to fix a new car before you can reject it?
> ...


Bit of misunderstanding, the car was 'ready' to be picked up 2 weeks before I actually picked it up (due to me being on holiday). I then went to pick the car up on Thursday (26th) which was when he tells me he thinks the car isn't running correctly.

I'm still waiting for them to come pick the car up today so it doesn't look like it's going to be returned to me the same day now :roll:


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## BillTheButcher (Oct 24, 2017)

barry_m2 said:


> BillTheButcher said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have to let them try to fix a new car before you can reject it?
> ...


:lol:

I meant as a general rule: if your new car throws an EML as you drive off the forecourt can you reject it straight away or do you have to give the dealer a chance to fix it?


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## MartynWhiteley (Sep 30, 2006)

BillTheButcher said:


> barry_m2 said:
> 
> 
> > BillTheButcher said:
> ...


As I understand it, you can now reject a car within the first 30 days, if a fault occurs, and don't have to give them an opportunity to fix it.


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## BauhauTTS (Jan 8, 2017)

My initial emotional reaction was to just ask for a replacement that isn't defective out of the box. In fairness though, if it's really just an improperly seated dipstick, that would be a bit harsh on the dealer. If it's anything significant mechanically though, I would ask for a replacement. This has to have taken the shine off what should have been special day.


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## iainfrmeastkilbride (Feb 19, 2016)

Hi Tonksy
I know from personal experience,Having rejected 2.Wont bore you with the details.
You have 30 days to reject it without letting them have a go at fixing it.I gave them a shot and they made both worse.
Up to you though,let them get back to you,if its an easy fix then all is well. If not, write a letter of rejection and hand it to the Head Of Business. 
Also,register your complaint with Audi UK,they will assign a contact you can call anytime?
If you keep it,push for extras..service package etc,Dont bother with coffee maker,still in box :lol: 
Good luck


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## Pat27 (Nov 24, 2016)

Why did it have 30 miles on the clock when you collected it ?


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

Ask how it got through the PDI in the first place.

Then ask for full details of the fault and all rectification issues.

Depending what they say either keep it and get a couple of services for your trouble, or keep the loaner and ask them to order you new one.

Good luck


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

It's not looking good.

Had a quick phone call 10 o clock this morning saying it's coming up with a lambda sensor but he will ring me back within an hour and give me more in-depth diagnostic. 3hours Lateran 4 phone calls to them to try find out some information, I'm still waiting for a call from the actual salesmen

I think it's rime to demand a new car built and some sort of compensation. This has really made me question Audi which is a shame as I could see me using Audi and sticking with them over other competitors for a good few years.

I have tried to ring ombudsman but they are closed over the weekend.

:?


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Shame on the car, I'm sure it will be sorted in the end but i have to say this compensation culture/talk is just ugly.


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## Rob180bhp (Oct 8, 2017)

Toshiba said:


> Shame on the car, I'm sure it will be sorted in the end but i have to say this compensation culture/talk is just ugly.


Not having a dig, but how would you deal with a faulty £40k purchase?
Compensation or replacement are good options, I certainly wouldnt say fix it and I'll be happy I want a new car for my money not a fixed broke one

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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

The price is irrelevant, it's a new car and it "should" just work. However, things fail, things break and slip through the net but it's not done deliberately. As the OP said the 2 weeks is just how long it has sat waiting for collection. Dealers don't PDI them on delivery, they do them JIT so it not like they try to hide the facts.

I'd wager given the description they are as unhappy as the owner and will do everything to make it right.
I just don't like this victim mentality of PPI/wheres theres blame TV lawyers rubbish. What would i do? Give me a car until its fixed everyones happy (as long as its not a golf or corsa). OK, might not be the perfect collection experience you expect/wanted but still, it's the whole society issue of "everyone owes me something" and hence why so many can't be bothered to work and just want benefits. I digress, hope it gets fixed quickly.

I've had a loan car for a car that was in for service also fail too. I've not had a single Audi that has not had at least two minor issues and many recalls. So, despite the "marketing" German cars are not that reliable anymore.


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## Rob180bhp (Oct 8, 2017)

Toshiba said:


> The price is irrelevant, it's a new car and it "should" just work. However, things fail, things break and slip through the net but it's not done deliberately. As the OP said the 2 weeks is just how long it has sat waiting for collection. Dealers don't PDI them on delivery, they do them JIT so it not like they try to hide the facts.
> 
> I'd wager given the description they are as unhappy as the owner and will do everything to make it right.
> I just don't like this victim mentality of PPI/wheres theres blame TV lawyers rubbish. What would i do? Give me a car until its fixed everyones happy (as long as its not a golf or corsa). OK, might not be the perfect collection experience you expect/wanted but still, it's the whole society issue of "everyone owes me something" and hence why so many can't be bothered to work and just want benefits. I digress, hope it gets fixed quickly.
> ...


I'm in the motor trade my self., people views and opinions so varied
But a mark on the new sofa or a pixel dead on the tv and they complain and swap it, but people don't seem to have the same views with cars

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## Stuward57 (May 8, 2013)

Well said Toshiba, so fed up with the compensation culture in today's society!


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## Rob180bhp (Oct 8, 2017)

Stuward57 said:


> Well said Toshiba, so fed up with the compensation culture in today's society!


So no compensation, just a new car that works)

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## 90TJM (Sep 30, 2013)

We had one of the Fiat 500s that would not go up hills and Fiat would not offer anything other than a software fix that did not work.Got rid after 18 months.The retail car buyer still gets a poor deal.I purchase equipment at work and suppliers dont get fully paid until its right, maybe car buying should be the same.


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## Blackhole128 (Dec 24, 2015)

Toshiba said:


> <snip>
> 
> I'd wager given the description they are as unhappy as the owner and will do everything to make it right.
> I just don't like this victim mentality of PPI/wheres theres blame TV lawyers rubbish. What would i do? Give me a car until its fixed everyones happy (as long as its not a golf or corsa).
> ...


I agree - too much US influence in our country. It's always someone else's fault!

Having said that, the OP has to think about rejecting the car quickly since he only has a 30-day window to reject it. If the problem was a minor one, I'd hold out to let the garage sort it, but with an engine problem on a performance car you are gambling upon the fault being accurately identified and adequately fixed so that there are no recurrences once that 30-day period has expired.

My sister-in-law just fell foul of the same kind of thing with her new Mini Cooper S. It had a problem with the heated seats not working on arrival. BMW had it in for over 4 weeks trying to fix it unsuccessfully and now she's beyond the point where she can simply reject it. She has no option other than to rely on the "goodwill" of the dealer (and from what I know of this particular dealership that's not a good prospect). Over a month into ownership and she's only driven it for a few days.

If it was mine, I'd reject it due to the risk of it being a 'lemon'.

Claiming and compensation aside, if I was the dealer I'd be very apologetic and looking to throw freebies at the customer either way since it's in their interest to keep their customers long term and ensure that they maintain a good reputation.


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

Blackhole128 said:


> Claiming and compensation aside, if I was the dealer I'd be very apologetic and looking to throw freebies at the customer either way since it's in their interest to keep their customers long term and ensure that they maintain a good reputation.


Maybe you should open an Audi dealership. Would be great to have that attitude.

Problem is once you've given most dealers your cash they lose interest and are chasing the next customer.


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

I've got mixed feelings about this. Having had a real Friday afternoon car I'd be neurotic about driving it always wondering if something was going to go wrong, so with that in mind I'd be inclined to reject it.
However that then means waiting another 3 months for another one to be built and that may not fit in with what you're doing with your old car.


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## debonair (Jun 5, 2014)

None of us knows what has happened to our cars pre delivery, they could all have been broken at some point before we got them. I'd let them fix it and it wouldn't even have entered my head to reject it


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## MartynWhiteley (Sep 30, 2006)

debonair said:


> None of us knows what has happened to our cars pre delivery, they could all have been broken at some point before we got them. I'd let them fix it and it wouldn't even have entered my head to reject it


If all faults were just a case of fitting a new part, or updating firmware, then I'd fully agree with your sentiments.

However as others have said, the worry is that the fault is just step 1 of a never ending chain of events, whereby the car spends more time in the garage, than available for your use.

This year, my daughter bought a Kuga, and only had use of it for a total of 2 weeks, within the first 3 months. How she wishes she'd have rejected it during the first week or so.

I must be a member of a very small club, those who have successfully rejected a Mercedes S Class. Within the first 2 weeks it had been back to the dealers 3 times for them to try and fix it randomly going into limp mode for no apparent reason (and no warning lights or fault codes). I took a difficult decision to reject it, but I'm glad I did, as I can imaging that car causing no end of frustrations going forward.


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## daddow (Jan 1, 2017)

My mate purchased a new car recently (not Audi) and some days later he observed the w/screen was not fitting properly, the garage admitted the car had received delivery damage, it has never been satisfactory since so you never know. The garage are working on compensation.


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## TerryCTR (Nov 12, 2009)

I rejected my Mk2 6 months into ownership thanks to the seat sag. I had to give them 3 attempts to fix it and on the 3rd it went back so the OP could decide to keep and hope the dealership corrects the issues. Another 3 month wait would be a killer!


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## debonair (Jun 5, 2014)

I wouldn't worry myself about what 'might' happen, that's a sure fire way to drive yourself up the wall :?

There are positive stories also as well as the negative, some years ago I had a brand new company car and after 2 weeks it died. Engine management light on and wouldn't start. It went to the dealer for a week, they fixed whatever it was (I can't remember) and I never had another single problem with it the whole time I had it.

I guess it just depends how you look at it. Just because it's had one problem doesn't necessarily mean it's a lemon. The next car could have problems too. And the next and so on.

Do we even know for definite what the issue is yet? The 
OP has gone quiet :?


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

debonair said:


> I'd let them fix it and it wouldn't even have entered my head to reject it


Really?

Wasn't there a 16 page thread on here a while back where someone cancelled their order before the car arrived,and then loads of follow up about deposit being returned, wanting another one, and other hassle?

At least this chap has tried to let them sort the issue...


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

Bit of an update. Will have more tomorrow morning.

The manager has spoken to me on the phone and has no taken charge of 'my case' as I said I wanted to reject the car and have a brand new one built. He went off to speak to the franchise owners and. And back yesterday with a offer of 'if we sort the car out and Get it running so I'm happy with it, they will do some good will gestures and compo ( his actually words).

I simply said I would rather have a car that I was 100% happy with and had 100% faith in rather than compo/good will gesture. He totally understood and said he was just doing what he had been told and would report back I still wanted a brand new one.

He rang me this evening, just as I was leaving the house to go to football so said he would ring back first thing tomorrow morning. But he has 'very good new' for me.


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## debonair (Jun 5, 2014)

Shug750S said:


> debonair said:
> 
> 
> > I'd let them fix it and it wouldn't even have entered my head to reject it
> ...


Really yes, I've never rejected a car in my life. I was waiting for a comment like this  I think you need to read it again as I don't think youve understood the story correctly. Firstly completely different situation, nothing to do with a faulty car and secondly I asked everyone to help and they all refused! Oh and the problems with the new TTS I allowed them to fix and never asked for an ounce of compensation. You must be getting mixed up?

Waiting with baited breath to see what the good news is for the OP........


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## ZephyR2 (Feb 20, 2013)

tonksy26 said:


> Bit of an update. Will have more tomorrow morning.
> 
> The manager has spoken to me on the phone and has no taken charge of 'my case' as I said I wanted to reject the car and have a brand new one built. He went off to speak to the franchise owners and. And back yesterday with a offer of 'if we sort the car out and Get it running so I'm happy with it, they will do some good will gestures and compo ( his actually words).
> 
> I simply said I would rather have a car that I was 100% happy with and had 100% faith in rather than compo/good will gesture. He totally understood and said he was just doing what he had been told and would report back I still wanted a brand new one.


I think you played that dead right.



tonksy26 said:


> He rang me this evening, just as I was leaving the house to go to football so said he would ring back first thing tomorrow morning. But he has 'very good new' for me.


He's found a similar spec model in stock that you can have asap. :?:


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## Steve2017TTS (Aug 2, 2017)

ZephyR2 said:


> tonksy26 said:
> 
> 
> > Bit of an update. Will have more tomorrow morning.
> ...


Hi,
Just be careful that he has not found a fixed reject from another customer - who will now be getting the OP's fixed car as a swap!
If they are offering a new car replacement - make sure it's unregistered and really new!
Cheers
Steve


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

Steve2017TTS said:


> ZephyR2 said:
> 
> 
> > tonksy26 said:
> ...


Yeah I defiantly will If that is the case. If it was another rejected customers car then it would of been registered and I'd be down as the second owner on the logbook wouldn't I ? I'll just make sure he says it's unregistered otherwise I'm not having it.


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## jhoneyman (Aug 8, 2012)

Maybe he is offering you a stock RS


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## Steve2017TTS (Aug 2, 2017)

jhoneyman said:


> Maybe he is offering you a stock RS


That's what you would call compensation!


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

jhoneyman said:


> Maybe he is offering you a stock RS


Make sure they swap the wheels though....


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## Blackhole128 (Dec 24, 2015)

Shug750S said:


> Blackhole128 said:
> 
> 
> > Claiming and compensation aside, if I was the dealer I'd be very apologetic and looking to throw freebies at the customer either way since it's in their interest to keep their customers long term and ensure that they maintain a good reputation.
> ...


For any business it ought to be a 'no brainer' to keep your customers happy so that they stay with you. It's expensive finding them in the first place (advertising, showroom, trade shows etc.) so it tends to be cost-effective too.

I have my own (one-man) business in computer support. I always try to give my customers time and look after their best interests. I treat them in an honest way and never over-charge like you hear some do when doing the rounds. I've been going for 10 years now and have a lot of repeat business, so hopefully I'm doing something right!


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

Update:

Audi have agreed to provide a new car, had there customer service ring me up tonight who offered me a beetle as a courtesy car. Safe to say I said a strong no. In the end and after a lot of arguing, I've opted for a 17 plate A5 s line. Not quite what I was hoping for but the customer service guy insisted his jobs as to 'get me mobile as quickly as possible and that's it'.

I then spoke back with the dealership, both the sales guy and manager and they said it's up to Audi what they offer me and they couldn't really do much. If I'm honest, The salesman and manager have both been fantastic towards me and have bent over backwards to make my life that little bit easier. So big praise for those 2 so far.


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## Alan Sl (Nov 11, 2009)

tonksy26 said:


> Update:
> 
> Audi have agreed to provide a new car, had there customer service ring me up tonight who offered me a beetle as a courtesy car. Safe to say I said a strong no. In the end and after a lot of arguing, I've opted for a 17 plate A5 s line. Not quite what I was hoping for but the customer service guy insisted his jobs as to 'get me mobile as quickly as possible and that's it'.
> 
> I then spoke back with the dealership, both the sales guy and manager and they said it's up to Audi what they offer me and they couldn't really do much. If I'm honest, The salesman and manager have both been fantastic towards me and have bent over backwards to make my life that little bit easier. So big praise for those 2 so far.


Sorry to hear of you bad luck and disappointment with your new motor. Unfortunately I have had the shine taken off getting a new car several times. Will your new car be a factory order or exsisting stock? If it is a new car order it might be worth ensuring that you order any additional options that were not included on the original order, good luck anyway.


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

It will be a brand new factory order, there is still some finalising to be done but I'm guessing it will be exactly the same re order, unless I can get them to throw me some extras in for free as abit of a sorry for the inconvenience.


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

tonksy26 said:


> It will be a brand new factory order, there is still some finalising to be done but I'm guessing it will be exactly the same re order, unless I can get them to throw me some extras in for free as abit of a sorry for the inconvenience.


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## debonair (Jun 5, 2014)

I would be happy that they were getting me a new car, providing me with free transport for 3 months or so (saving mileage and wear &tear on my own vehicle) and getting a car registered on the next registration year, which I would demand (so the car will be worth more come time to sell hence more dollar in pocket). That would be more than enough compensation for me.

Glad you are happy with the resolution


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## NoWayMan73 (May 21, 2017)

Well done Tonksy. I think you've gone about this in exactly the right way and it seems like your dealership are one of the good ones as well! A great example of how it should be done. Obviously it would have been better to have picked your new car up without it having any problems, but at least you now know what kind of people you are dealing with if you get any more problems in the future. Enjoy the A5 and please keep us updated with the progress of your new order.


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

debonair said:


> I would be happy that they were getting me a new car, providing me with free transport for 3 months or so (saving mileage and wear &tear on my own vehicle) and getting a car registered on the next registration year, which I would demand (so the car will be worth more come time to sell hence more dollar in pocket). That would be more than enough compensation for me.
> 
> Glad you are happy with the resolution


I can understand what your saying but you could also look at it on the flip side and say, ifI wanted to save on wear and tear or if I wanted a 18 plate, then I would of waited till next year. The fact is, I wanted a car when I ordered the car, not next year and 6 months later.

I'm still having to keep the insurance on my old car (which is now sold) so I'm not saving money on that aspect. I guess I'm only saving money by not having to tax a car for 2-3 months.


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## TerryCTR (Nov 12, 2009)

Your spot on mate you have done the right thing and the dealer look to be treating you well.

Debonair - at one point you were going on about losing £1k deposit on a cancelled order so I don't for one second believe that you wouldn't have looked for a new car in the same situation


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## debonair (Jun 5, 2014)

TerryCTR said:


> Your spot on mate you have done the right thing and the dealer look to be treating you well.
> 
> Debonair - at one point you were going on about losing £1k deposit on a cancelled order so I don't for one second believe that you wouldn't have looked for a new car in the same situation


It's like I've already said Terry, my situation was completely different, you can't compare the two and I'm not going into it all over again. I don't understand what me potentially losing £1k has to do with rejecting a car? As I've said before I've had grounds on more than one occasion to reject cars but I haven't, ever. Neither have I asked for or expected any compensation for any of the issues you refer to. If you think I'm a liar there's not much I can do about that but it is a shame that you think that way.


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## debonair (Jun 5, 2014)

tonksy26 said:


> debonair said:
> 
> 
> > I would be happy that they were getting me a new car, providing me with free transport for 3 months or so (saving mileage and wear &tear on my own vehicle) and getting a car registered on the next registration year, which I would demand (so the car will be worth more come time to sell hence more dollar in pocket). That would be more than enough compensation for me.
> ...


I don't understand why you are paying the insurance still on your old car? I'd just cancel the policy and start again when I got the new car.


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## Rumney (Feb 7, 2017)

debonair said:


> tonksy26 said:
> 
> 
> > debonair said:
> ...


And if cancelling your current insurance results in additional cost to yourself then this is something that Audi and the dealership should take into account in your negotiations relating to the new (replacement) vehicle.


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## debonair (Jun 5, 2014)

Cancellation fees are a nominal amount, continuing to pay the insurance will cost much more hence creating a saving by cancelling so this is a gain rather than a loss


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## TerryCTR (Nov 12, 2009)

I don't think your a liar re your situation, but if you had took the keys to a brand new car and it was having the same issues as the OP then I believe you would be rejecting it where as you have stated on this thread that you would just let them fix it and rejecting wouldn't have entered your mind.


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## MartynWhiteley (Sep 30, 2006)

debonair said:


> Cancellation fees are a nominal amount, continuing to pay the insurance will cost much more hence creating a saving by cancelling so this is a gain rather than a loss


Ah the good old day.....

Times have changed, I tried to cancel a policy 4 months before it was due to expire after I'd sold a car, and the cancellation fee was significantly more than the refund.

When I dared to suggest I'd just let it run its course, I was advised that it was illegal to keep insurance on a car I didn't own.

Often the extra years no-claims is also worth having, so cancelling the policy is far from an obvious solution.


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## debonair (Jun 5, 2014)

TerryCTR said:


> I don't think your a liar re your situation, but if you had took the keys to a brand new car and it was having the same issues as the OP then I believe you would be rejecting it where as you have stated on this thread that you would just let them fix it and rejecting wouldn't have entered your mind.


So you think me a liar for saying I wouldn't :roll:  If you think you know me better than I do then I'll not argue with you 8) Once more, I've had good enough reason to reject cars in the past but have never done it, or even thought about doing it. By the way did we ever even find out what was actually wrong with the OP's car?



MartynWhiteley said:


> debonair said:
> 
> 
> > Cancellation fees are a nominal amount, continuing to pay the insurance will cost much more hence creating a saving by cancelling so this is a gain rather than a loss
> ...


Times haven't changed. I think you were conned. Excessive fees are likely to be unenforceable in law, as well as unfair and unreasonable. Did you go to the Financial Ombudsman? They really don't like consumers being treated unfairly which is clearly what has happened here.

Just a quick note to the OP and I apologise if this is a case of sucking eggs but you have got everything that the dealership has offered you and agreed to in writing? I'm a classic example of falling foul of accepting what I have been told verbally, only for those words to be completely denied when it comes down to it. If you haven't done already, get it all in writing


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## TerryCTR (Nov 12, 2009)

Yes that's it a situational liar, decided on a case by case basis :lol:

Good advice on ensuring it's all in writing though


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## debonair (Jun 5, 2014)




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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

MartynWhiteley said:


> debonair said:
> 
> 
> > Cancellation fees are a nominal amount, continuing to pay the insurance will cost much more hence creating a saving by cancelling so this is a gain rather than a loss
> ...


You don't own the car so cancel the insurance. Your ncb is live for two years, so you keep whatever you have built up already.

As well as being borderline illegal to insure it when no longer owning it, be wary that there was a case a couple of years back where a chap sold a car and didn't cancel the insurance and it was involved in an accident. His insurance on the vehicle was still live and there was a very expensive legal case to resolve it.


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

Regarding insurance. I'm still relatively young so I'd like to get as many NCB as quickly as I can to bring the premium down. If I cancelled it now I'd loose out on this years NCB (renewal is in March).

I will give my insurance company a ring this afternoon and see how much it would be to cancel to policy etc.

I also get my new temporary car today and I'll also hopefully going to have a lengthy chat with the manager about the new tt and weather I can have an unregistered one that's in stock ( with a higher spec) instead of waiting 2-3 months. If they say I can't and it needs to be another factory built one then I'm going to ask for a 1st March pick up with an 18 plate.


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## debonair (Jun 5, 2014)

It makes sense to go for an unregistered stock car. There are plenty of them to choose from, even if they are at the other end of the country, or sitting at the port. The dealer should be biting your hand off at this option as they will want to draw a line under the whole thing and get it sorted as quickly as possible. Plus you won't have to stay in the loaner for very long so if you're happy with this it should be a no brainer


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## TerryCTR (Nov 12, 2009)

Surely you just transfer the temporary car under the policy then you don't have to worry about canceling it and you get to maintain building a NCB


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

TerryCTR said:


> Surely you just transfer the temporary car under the policy then you don't have to worry about canceling it and you get to maintain building a NCB


I don't know the reg of the new car till I take delivery this afternoon. I don't need to transfer my insurance to it as Audi are proving me free insurance on it but I suppose I could transfer the my policy into it still, just to keep me from loosing this years NCB. Again though that also depends how long I will be keeping this temporary A5.


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## TerryCTR (Nov 12, 2009)

All true but that's the only way of not losing the ncb unless your lucky enough for them to have unregistered stock sitting.

As allued to by another member it's illegal to keep the insurance running when you no longer have the car and if someone else happens to crash it whilst your still holding your policy your in for a lot of bother so on the assumption you have the 3 month wait for a new one and in fact longer for the 18 plate then you need to weigh up the cost saving for an additional years ncb vs the cost of canceling the policy or transferring to the temporary car.


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

Ask your insurer if you can suspend the policy until the new car arrives, rather than cancel it.

Alternatively, as above, use the policy to cover the loan car as the Audi insurance will have a huge excess. if you do that you must tell the dealer or whoever supplied the car: they will probably want evidence of the cover.


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## debonair (Jun 5, 2014)

Bear in mind they may not allow you to use your own insurance on their loaner. My loaner only had a 250 excess on it, I made sure it wasn't huge as I wouldn't drive any loan car with a massive excess on it


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

debonair said:


> Bear in mind they may not allow you to use your own insurance on their loaner. My loaner only had a 250 excess on it, I made sure it wasn't huge as I wouldn't drive any loan car with a massive excess on it


Good point. If they are providing free insurance check the excess. I have had loaners from garages with massive excesses (like £1k) and they wanted a small fee to buy the excess down to a more reasonable sum.

https://www.whitedalton.co.uk/motorbike ... insurance/
Found a link from solicitors about leaving insurance live on a sold bike (same logic as car)

And one about leaving it running on a car:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/sho ... 175&page=5

Cancel your insurance ASAP


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## WhiteWizard (Mar 6, 2017)

Hi,

Sorry you seem to have got a dud, but seem on the way to resolving it.

There has been mention here of the 30 days, but that time can be suspended whilst they are "working" on the problem and with Consumer Rights Act you have additional right up to 6 months.

See https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/legal-rights

For general information the Distance Selling Regulations have been superseded by *The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013*.

I am NOT a layer, but like to keep abreast of these things 

Regards


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

UPDATE:

Received a phone call today from the dealership manager to say they have now placed a new factory order and it shall be here before the new year, literally just before the new year. I think he said expected delivery would be 29th December. If it does come this year I don't think they will hold on for the new 18plate.

I asked about weather they can do anything 'extra' for me because of the inconvenience that it has caused me (and being truthful it has caused more than 1 or 2 inconveniences for me all this messing about) and he said don't expect to much as Audi policy is that if you gain from a situation like this then you have to pay for the extras that I want. He did say he will see what he can do and see if he can sort something out for me that he can organise from the dealership. So not looking like any extras will be ordered but possibility of something once it's arrived. Although I'm not counting my chickens on that.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

tonksy26 said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> Received a phone call today from the dealership manager to say they have now placed a new factory order and it shall be here before the new year, literally just before the new year. I think he said expected delivery would be 29th December. If it does come this year I don't think they will hold on for the new 18plate.
> 
> I asked about weather they can do anything 'extra' for me because of the inconvenience that it has caused me (and being truthful it has caused more than 1 or 2 inconveniences for me all this messing about) and he said don't expect to much as Audi policy is that if you gain from a situation like this then you have to pay for the extras that I want. He did say he will see what he can do and see if he can sort something out for me that he can organise from the dealership. So not looking like any extras will be ordered but possibility of something once it's arrived. Although I'm not counting my chickens on that.


It's in his interest to get the car registered before the year end, DON'T! Wait until the first week of January so your car is a 67/18 year rather than a 67/17 car. It will make a big difference come resale time if your car is on paper a 2018 car.


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

Ok. Thank you for the heads up


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

The new car has a build date of 11th December. I was told I would have it this year but I can't imagine it coming till january now.

I did ask the question again that if it came in January then could they keep the car till 1st March and register it as an 18 plate. I was told if it came in January then I would have to take order of it but if it comes in February then I could wait till March to get it.

What's other people's thoughts ? To be honest, I've waiting this long, I would rather wait abit longer and have a 18 plate. Not sure how much of a fight I would have in order to convince them to keep it till March.


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## Number86 (Oct 20, 2017)

Out of interest. Does anyone know what they do with the old car? I'm guessing they fix it up and flog it as ex demo, but it'd be interesting to know for sure.


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

There coming to pick up be spare key on Monday along with the logbook. I presume they just sell it as used with less than 100 miles on it and keep shush about the history. They would have to take a hit on it I would imagine.


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## DarrylW91 (Nov 8, 2017)

tonksy26 said:


> The new car has a build date of 11th December. I was told I would have it this year but I can't imagine it coming till january now.
> 
> I did ask the question again that if it came in January then could they keep the car till 1st March and register it as an 18 plate. I was told if it came in January then I would have to take order of it but if it comes in February then I could wait till March to get it.
> 
> What's other people's thoughts ? To be honest, I've waiting this long, I would rather wait abit longer and have a 18 plate. Not sure how much of a fight I would have in order to convince them to keep it till March.


My build date is also 11th December, I was told initially that mine would be February (when I first placed the order) but since then the build date has been set to 11th, so I was thinking January. It'll be interesting to see if there's much of a difference between the two.


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## MartynWhiteley (Sep 30, 2006)

DarrylW91 said:


> tonksy26 said:
> 
> 
> > The new car has a build date of 11th December. I was told I would have it this year but I can't imagine it coming till january now.
> ...


After ordering towards the end of October, I was initially allocated a build date at the end of Jan (as expected), within a week this had come forward to 4th Dec (today!), then it slipped to 11th Dec, then it returned to 4th Dec about 2 weeks ago.

The car actually went into build during the middle of last week, and as of this morning, is fully built and in QA.


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## DarrylW91 (Nov 8, 2017)

My build date was 11th but I thought I'd log in and check today

.. it's in the paint shop  :wink:


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

Thanks for the update. Just checked mine and it's exactly the sme, in the paint booth. Although after tracking the first TT. I take this tracker with a pinch of salt.


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## DarrylW91 (Nov 8, 2017)

Mines been in Assembly since early this morning.

Would be good if you could live stream your own car through the whole build process :lol:

This video gives a bit of an insight into the build process:


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## F1SpaceMonkey (Nov 21, 2015)

tonksy26 said:


> The new car has a build date of 11th December. I was told I would have it this year but I can't imagine it coming till january now.
> 
> I did ask the question again that if it came in January then could they keep the car till 1st March and register it as an 18 plate. I was told if it came in January then I would have to take order of it but if it comes in February then I could wait till March to get it.
> 
> What's other people's thoughts ? To be honest, I've waiting this long, I would rather wait abit longer and have a 18 plate. Not sure how much of a fight I would have in order to convince them to keep it till March.


I took delivery in January 2016, the dealer told me if i wanted to wait until March 1st for the new reg plate i could. I didn't as wanted the car asap. The sales guy said he only gets his commission on pickup so suspect your sales guys is wanting his ££££.


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

There argument is that Audi ordered the car and not the dealership. Due to the unique circumstances in my case it wasn't processed the same as a normal order and Audi are keeping a keen eye on whole process.

The dealer now has the second key and log book to the original car so I'm going to keep my eye out for it being listed for sale. Be interesting to see what they list it at and what's said about it.


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## F1SpaceMonkey (Nov 21, 2015)

given the hassle they have caused i would demand you take delivery when it suits you and not audi with the reg plate year you want.


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## DarrylW91 (Nov 8, 2017)

Mines now in Quality Control, which looks to be the final step before transit.

My hope for a mid-january pickup is looking more realistic!

How's yours doing Tonksy?
Also, out of interest what spec have you gone for?


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

Nano grey, red seats, comfort and sound package. I'm going to paint the calippers myself straight away. Just couldn't bring myself to pay £375 for some calliper paint.

It's exqctly the same step as you. Like I said previously, my first order wasn't that accurate with the online tracker.

Keep me updated with your order though please.


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## DarrylW91 (Nov 8, 2017)

Nice!

Yeah I know what you mean. I probably would've gone for it but I didn't think it would look good with the Ara Blue.


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## DarrylW91 (Nov 8, 2017)

As of this morning my car is in stage 1 of transit


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## Alan Sl (Nov 11, 2009)

tonksy26 said:


> There argument is that Audi ordered the car and not the dealership. Due to the unique circumstances in my case it wasn't processed the same as a normal order and Audi are keeping a keen eye on whole process.
> 
> The dealer now has the second key and log book to the original car so I'm going to keep my eye out for it being listed for sale. Be interesting to see what they list it at and what's said about it.


It would be interesting to know if the dealer tries to sell your motor for more than what you paid for it (assuming you got a decent discount in the first place). I have seen in the past dealers trying to sell ex demo motors for more than you could purchase a brand new factory motor after negotiating a discount.


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

Alan Sl said:


> tonksy26 said:
> 
> 
> > There argument is that Audi ordered the car and not the dealership. Due to the unique circumstances in my case it wasn't processed the same as a normal order and Audi are keeping a keen eye on whole process.
> ...


Just had a look online and it's now listed.... £3,000 MORE than the price I was paying for it. Listed with 90 miles on the clock.


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## Steve2017TTS (Aug 2, 2017)

tonksy26 said:


> Alan Sl said:
> 
> 
> > tonksy26 said:
> ...


One careful owner!!!


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

I only drove it 4 miles of those 90


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## AllanG (Nov 2, 2017)

[/quote] Just had a look online and it's now listed.... £3,000 MORE than the price I was paying for it. Listed with 90 miles on the clock.[/quote]

Which dealer is listing it.....can you post the link?


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

tonksy26 said:


> Alan Sl said:
> 
> 
> > tonksy26 said:
> ...


Sounds about right. Guess dealer is expecting a bit of negotiation when selling a pre-used car so ends up level.

Did they make you sign a non disclosure doc or will you post link to help others on here avoid it?


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## DarrylW91 (Nov 8, 2017)

Any update Tonksy?

Mines status code 36, which I think means it's at the port but not yet ready to be put on a boat?

The wait is getting harder now :lol:


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

DarrylW91 said:


> Any update Tonksy?
> 
> Mines status code 36, which I think means it's at the port but not yet ready to be put on a boat?
> 
> The wait is getting harder now :lol:


They told me last Friday that it would arrive first week jan and be ready to collect second week January.


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## DarrylW91 (Nov 8, 2017)

I guess this is where yours will be fast tracked through the shipping process to make up for the amount of time you've waited.

Mines now status code 38 which means it's "officially" at the port, so I guess it'll sit there now until after Christmas/new year


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

Dealer rang me and told me they would be getting it the 9th jan and I could pick it up 11th.


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## DarrylW91 (Nov 8, 2017)

That's good news!

Do you know if yours has actually left Germany yet?

Mines still at the port waiting to be shipped over :?


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## KSixTT6 (Nov 13, 2017)

Just had a look online and it's now listed.... £3,000 MORE than the price I was paying for it. Listed with 90 miles on the clock.[/quote]

Which dealer is listing it.....can you post the link?[/quote]

Only TTS with 90 miles on the clock that I could find so I would guess its this? 
https://usedcars.audi.co.uk/usedcar...m9jaGRhbGU|1041,5000|1070,2017/l|12,1,t_geo,U


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## AllanG (Nov 2, 2017)

KSixTT6 said:


> Just had a look online and it's now listed.... £3,000 MORE than the price I was paying for it. Listed with 90 miles on the clock.


Which dealer is listing it.....can you post the link?[/quote]

Only TTS with 90 miles on the clock that I could find so I would guess its this? 
https://usedcars.audi.co.uk/usedcar...m9jaGRhbGU|1041,5000|1070,2017/l|12,1,t_geo,U[/quote]

If it is this one, it's certainly a competitive price.


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

Yes mine has left Germany and is now in the UK.

The link isn't working for me.


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## DarrylW91 (Nov 8, 2017)

Oh good, you'll have yours very soon then.

Emailed my dealer yesterday to see if I needed to take in any documents before the car arrives, and in his reply he mentioned that it was arriving in the morning. I replied that the tracker still had it in Germany, to which he then replied that it would be arriving later this month  not quite sure what went on there but it definitely got my hopes up! :lol:

I checked the tracker this morning and it has now left Germany and is on it's way to the UK, so hopefully not much longer now.

EDIT:

I've also been looking at ship tracking - my status was changed at 01:04 this morning, so I think it's on one of two ships coming from Emden to the UK.

It's either on 'WESER HIGHWAY' or 'DANUBE HIGHWAY'.

WESER left Emden at 03:25 this morning - after the status was changed, which leads me to believe that my car is on DANUBE which left at 18:22 last night, and is due to dock at Sheerness at 11:30am today.

Exciting Times!


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

Pick up arranged for next Friday.

Not had any mention of if they are going to go an extra mile for all this inconvenience. :roll:


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## DarrylW91 (Nov 8, 2017)

Nice! Well fingers crossed they pull out all the bells and whistles for you

Mine has arrived in the UK now and is waiting at Sheerness. Going to drop some documents into Audi today so might ask how quick he can get it transported for me :wink:


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## antmanbTT (Jan 8, 2018)

Tonksy - was the link posted earlier to the car you rejected? If it was and you were getting it for 3 grand cheaper how on earth did you negotiate a 25% discount on a brand new factory order?


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

antmanbTT said:


> Tonksy - was the link posted earlier to the car you rejected? If it was and you were getting it for 3 grand cheaper how on earth did you negotiate a 25% discount on a brand new factory order?


Guess so, both in same area...


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## DarrylW91 (Nov 8, 2017)

Big day for you today Tonksy! Let us know how it goes.

The tracker now shows mine as at the dealership so I've just gotta wait for a phone call...


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

Yep. 3 o clock I'm in to pick her up


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

Finally have her home and no problems  Didn't get anything from the dealer, didn't even get a 'big reveal' or full tank of fuel :roll: . Oh well, I have the car now and I can get on with enjoying it for longer than 12 hours this time  .

On first impressions it's quick and sounds amazing. The one thing I would say is the interior is quite basic. It might be because Ive just come from a new A5 but things like, the seat adjustment not being electric, the climate controls are very basic, the lighting panel above your head, just little things like that. I also think having just the VC will take lot of getting used to. With the A5 I had both VC and a separate screen to have a large sat nav screen and large screen to display the radio. Another thing I've found, is looking at the big empty space on the top of the dashboard abit weird but hopefully time will get me used to that.


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## SamLD (Oct 16, 2013)

tonksy26 said:


> Finally have her home and no problems  Didn't get anything from the dealer, didn't even get a 'big reveal' or full tank of fuel :roll: . Oh well, I have the car now and I can get on with enjoying it for longer than 12 hours this time  .
> 
> On first impressions it's quick and sounds amazing. The one thing I would say is the interior is quite basic. It might be because Ive just come from a new A5 but things like, the seat adjustment not being electric, the climate controls are very basic, the lighting panel above your head, just little things like that. I also think having just the VC will take lot of getting used to. With the A5 I had both VC and a separate screen to have a large sat nav screen and large screen to display the radio. Another thing I've found, is looking at the big empty space on the top of the dashboard abit weird but hopefully time will get me used to that.


Been following this thread. Happy you have a working car now. My order was built around the same time as yours, 30 November, and is due in SA on the 15th. Hopefully I will be driving it before the end of January.
TTS standard spec in SA includes things like electric seats, deluxe aircon and satnav. Are these extras for you?
Pity having the A5 has somewhat spoilt your TTS experience.


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

No electeic seats arnt standard which imo they should be on a new 40k+ car. The car isn't a let down, I think it's just a completely different car compared to the A5. I class the TTS more of a sports car were as the A5 more of a business/long distance driving car.

I think in hindsight I wish I had the deluxe AC as an extra as the system does feel very basic without even digital gauges.


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## zooks (Sep 15, 2017)

tonksy26 said:


> I think in hindsight I wish I had the deluxe AC as an extra as the system does feel very basic without even digital gauges.


I was frustrated that this was an option on my TT so it really should be standard on a TTS but hey ho but there still selling them I suppose. The trouble with extra options is theres always something more you want but just can't justify. For me it was heated seats, nice but not essential on alcantara and they would have tipped me over the £40k tax bracket so a very expensive £300 over 4yrs!

I sure your new toy will grow on you when you find the right roads to enjoy the sharper handling and the driving experience. Any Pics?


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## DarrylW91 (Nov 8, 2017)

tonksy26 said:


> Finally have her home and no problems  Didn't get anything from the dealer, didn't even get a 'big reveal' or full tank of fuel :roll: . Oh well, I have the car now and I can get on with enjoying it for longer than 12 hours this time  .
> 
> On first impressions it's quick and sounds amazing. The one thing I would say is the interior is quite basic. It might be because Ive just come from a new A5 but things like, the seat adjustment not being electric, the climate controls are very basic, the lighting panel above your head, just little things like that. I also think having just the VC will take lot of getting used to. With the A5 I had both VC and a separate screen to have a large sat nav screen and large screen to display the radio. Another thing I've found, is looking at the big empty space on the top of the dashboard abit weird but hopefully time will get me used to that.


Bit of a shame the dealers didn't go the extra mile to make up for all the trouble you had, but at least you finally got your car!

I love the VC (and lack of popup screen in the dashboard). I've found it really hard to drive an analogue dial car over the last few months :lol:

My cars at the dealers but I haven't had any phone call yet. Just trying to be patient lol


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)




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## zooks (Sep 15, 2017)

That's stunning, a real looker. Finally you get to enjoy your new motor


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Still think that they are the best wheel design on the TT...


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## DarrylW91 (Nov 8, 2017)

Really nice looking car!

I love the Daytona Grey... If I hadn't had it on my previous TT I'd probably have had a much harder decision this time around :lol:

I agree with Toshiba, those wheels are definitely the best option for TTS's. Only ones that I think are a close second are the 20" optional multi spoke ones on the TT (not sure if you can spec them on the S aswell?).

Still haven't heard from my dealer.. cars been there since Thursday but I'm trying very hard to be patient [smiley=bomb.gif]


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

DarrylW91 said:


> Really nice looking car!
> 
> I love the Daytona Grey... [smiley=bomb.gif]


Looks like Nano Grey to me...?


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

Yeah it's nano grey  8)


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## DarrylW91 (Nov 8, 2017)

Ah well, I stand corrected lol.

Looks exactly like Daytona to me... either way it's a very nice car lol.


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## DarrylW91 (Nov 8, 2017)

Picked up my TTS this afternoon... Wow!

The power is amazing, the sound is incredible.. not too loud but makes enough noise to let you know you're in something special.

The S Sport seats are really comfortable.

Couldn't be happier with it!


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## tonksy26 (Jan 31, 2011)

Wey hey. Congratulations, stunning colour !

Enjoy


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## archieatkins (Dec 9, 2017)

DarrylW91 said:


> Picked up my TTS this afternoon... Wow!
> 
> The power is amazing, the sound is incredible.. not too loud but makes enough noise to let you know you're in something special.
> 
> ...


That is a great colour - what colour is it?


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## antmanbTT (Jan 8, 2018)

archieatkins said:


> DarrylW91 said:
> 
> 
> > Picked up my TTS this afternoon... Wow!
> ...


Per the sig it's Ara Blue ;-)


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## archieatkins (Dec 9, 2017)

got me wishing I ordered that rather than Grey!


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## DarrylW91 (Nov 8, 2017)

I fell in love with the colour the moment I saw it in the flesh. For me it's an amazing car but the colour is the main attraction.

I went for a drive earlier and I couldn't stop smiling, the TTS is everything I'd hoped it would be  :lol:


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## denTTony (Jan 6, 2013)

agree about Ara blue, saw one in the flesh and thought it looked stunning, shame it wasnt a colour for the S-line


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## antmanbTT (Jan 8, 2018)

DarrylW91 said:


> I fell in love with the colour the moment I saw it in the flesh. For me it's an amazing car but the colour is the main attraction.
> 
> I went for a drive earlier and I couldn't stop smiling, the TTS is everything I'd hoped it would be  :lol:


The Ara Blue is very nice - I picked up my used TTS at the weekend - it's Sepang Blue, when I went to look at it an Ara Blue R8 was next to it on the forecourt so I could compare them side by side. The Ara blue is a couple of shades lighter and brighter it's really stunning. Happy with my Sepang Blue but if I could have chosen - I would have chosen Ara.


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## DarrylW91 (Nov 8, 2017)

At first I didn't really want a blue car, but seeing it in the flesh I made my mind up on the spot lol.

I'm sure seeing an R8 Ara Blue in the flesh that they have a bit more visible sparkle to them, whereas the TTS sparkles only under good light, but that may just be me imagining things :lol:


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