# DIY wheel alignment tool - Mission accomplished pg.3



## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

I don't like having to take my TT for a wheel alignment check and adjustment every time I've done a bit of work on the suspension (which is quite regularly). Not only is it costly and time consuming but when there I'm not keen on all the comments such as "that's close enough" and "we can't adjust that" etc. etc.

I've had a look on eBay to see if there's any old tracking machines on there for sale, but they generally go for about £500 and are quite large, so I'm thinking about making my own!

I think it shouldn't be too hard to do, needing some accurately cut bits of steel, a rule and a laser pointer that's adjustable for calibration.

Has anyone else tried this?


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## harrismhome (Nov 14, 2009)

Been toying with this idea myself lately.

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Motorspor ... 43/0/15831


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## harrismhome (Nov 14, 2009)

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... 0&t=258944


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

This is roughly what I've got in mind.


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## bobbobb (Dec 24, 2008)

you can get smaller tracking devices similar to what you have drawn

you put the indicators on the outer edge of wheel propelly adjusted and the other side then you look through the spyhole it reflects from the mirror, gives you a reading and check it with what it should be adjust if needed

2nd hand i have seen them for around £200


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## TTMBTT (Jul 22, 2010)

bobbobb said:


> you can get smaller tracking devices similar to what you have drawn
> 
> you put the indicators on the outer edge of wheel propelly adjusted and the other side then you look through the spyhole it reflects from the mirror, gives you a reading and check it with what it should be adjust if needed
> 
> 2nd hand i have seen them for around £200


 Good idea to build your own device, the obvious downside is possibly one or two tyres at £90 -£100 each
if you get it wrong especially Quattro, dealers charge £99 +vat, stipulating full tank of fuel (full laden weight)
plus any part worn tyres to be renewed before tracking can be carried out(Audi specs) they would need your
car for at least 6hrs to allow for settling in between adjustments using specialist tools to adjust required
suspension components. I do truly admire your have a go mentality but the above when carried out by competent
tech's for the price keeps your TT running true. And i am no lover of dealers.

p.s. They also supply a detailed printout, so that if they get it wrong 3mth's down the road they can correct it.

Mark.


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## steveupton (Mar 23, 2010)

Might be open to ridicule but what about the Gunson trakrite and camber guages that are both relatively cheap, I know they don't do a proper 4 wheel alignment as they are axle specific but they do take care of most alignment issues which is good enough for most vehicles.


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

Well, I decided to have a go at this today after buying the necessary bits from B&Q and Maplin for about £35










BUILDING

After cutting two lengths of the aluminium section to match the wheels diameter four lengths of threaded bar were cut and filed to EXACTLY the same length.










These were then fitted through holes drilled through the ends of the aluminium section and bolted in position EXACTLY centrally.










With the basic frame now made for both parts a bracket and adjuster was made and fitted to one of them to hold the laser.










The laser was then secured in a generally central position.










And adjusted to run parallel dead centre to the aluminium section.










The centre of gravity was found for the section.










And a bracket made to hold it in position on the wheel.




























With the laser part now complete the scale end was finished off by fitting a butchered steel rule dead centre to the length of the section and with the scale dead centre to the width.










As with the laser part a wheel bracket was added to complete the pair.










CALIBRATION

With the laser roughly calibrated already more precise calibration was carried out using a piece of tight string as a reference. The longer the string at this point the more accurate the calibration.










TESTING

Both units were then fitted to the car.



















And measurements taken (the centre of the rule is 5cm, so this is effectively zero).










Now I've only done a rough check so far as the car wasn't on perfectly level ground, but the results so far are.

Left Front toeing in by 0.40 degrees
Right Front toeing in by 0.54 degrees
Left Rear toeing in by 0.67 degrees
Right Rear toeing in by 0.66 degrees

I've not made any adjustments yet as I ran out of time today and want to have the car perfectly level and double check the calibration of the device but if these are genuine readings then it would explain why my tyres are rather worn on the inside edges!


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## steveupton (Mar 23, 2010)

Absolutely superb work, take my hat off to you. One thing though, I was under the impression that toe in causes outside of tyre to wear and it is toe out that causes inside of tyre to wear (used to fit tyres many years ago - nearly 40 in fact).


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

steveupton said:


> Absolutely superb work, take my hat off to you. One thing though, I was under the impression that toe in causes outside of tyre to wear and it is toe out that causes inside of tyre to wear (used to fit tyres many years ago - nearly 40 in fact).


Bang goes that theory then!

I want to give everything a good check tomorrow because if what I've measured is correct then I've got three times the maximum permissible toe on the front and the back. I have to say that the back wheels do seem to have a lot of toe on them; you can see it by eye!


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## steveupton (Mar 23, 2010)

peter-ss said:


> steveupton said:
> 
> 
> > Absolutely superb work, take my hat off to you. One thing though, I was under the impression that toe in causes outside of tyre to wear and it is toe out that causes inside of tyre to wear (used to fit tyres many years ago - nearly 40 in fact).
> ...


Another cause of inside tyre wear is too much positive camber. I am really interested in your experience because my front tyres are wearing on the inside and my wheels are definitely not toeing out and camber is correct. Beginning to wonder whether the power of the car is taking up supension/steering play and inducing toe out whilst being driven.


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

I've yet to look into camber measurement.

I've just found this post and according to these figures my results are within limits.



lazerjules said:


> I had mine done at pro tyre, this is what they say are the correct parameters:
> 
> Front Caster left + right 7 deg 28' min 8 deg 28' max
> 
> ...


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Wow, loads of work. But surely it's just easier to pay the £40 and have it done by a scruffy kid and a laser?


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

Dash said:


> Wow, loads of work. But surely it's just easier to pay the £40 and have it done by a scruffy kid and a laser?


It would be easier but I'm not convinced that they do it properly as they seem in too much of a rush; there's always comments such as 'that'll do' and 'we can't adjust that' in addition to this, I don't really want them round my freshly refurbished wheels with those metal spikey things!

It would probably be best to take it to Audi as suggested earlier, rather than my usual tyre place, but you have to book it in to be done and I just know as soon as it's finished I'll have another suspension component that needs changing.


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## harrismhome (Nov 14, 2009)

Great write up mate, be interesting to have the tracking checked by professional kit to see how your figures campare to theirs.


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

UPDATE

As I wasn't completely happy with the calibration I did yesterday with the string and the pot of Dulux, I have today made some support brackets, with the left over aluminium, to aid the check.










These allow both part to be turned over to check the symmetry.










I have also ditched the string and used a a length of fishing wire instead.










I have had the laser end both ways round.



















And the scale end both ways round.



















And adjusted the laser until it is dead centre at all times.

I've also added a screw to operate the switch on the laser.










And then applied some Araldite to stop anything rattling loose.










And to increase the accuracy of the calibration I've made adjustments with the units five meters apart (twice the length at which they'll be used.










I'm now happy that the system is as accurate as it's going to get so did another check on the car and got the following results.

Left Front Toe 0.50 degrees
Right Front Toe 0.50 degrees
Left Rear Toe 0.64 degrees
Right Rear Toe 0.59 degrees

I've still not yet made any alterations as the cars not completely level and I'll need to get under it when it is. Maybe John-H's wooden ramps should be my next project?


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## steveupton (Mar 23, 2010)

Good work again, given the thoroughness of your work, wouldn't be surprised if your measurements are close to what professional equipment gives.

I take it that the toe measurements you have got are positive and that your wheels are toeing in? Just a tip, in case you haven't already thought of it, make sure that the car has been driven forward before taking measurements so that the wheels are in their normal position.


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

steveupton said:


> Good work again, given the thoroughness of your work, wouldn't be surprised if your measurements are close to what professional equipment gives.
> 
> I take it that the toe measurements you have got are positive and that your wheels are toeing in? Just a tip, in case you haven't already thought of it, make sure that the car has been driven forward before taking measurements so that the wheels are in their normal position.


Thanks for that, I think most people assume I've lost the plot even trying this but I'm pretty sure that it's going to be accurate now.

I've seen something on the net where a guy was adjusting his camber and used stacked up vinyl flor tiles under the wheels to give a perfectly level surface. I think that I'll use this idea in conjuntion with John-H's wooden ramps so that I can get under the car with it perfectly level.

Oh, and all the wheels are toeing in.


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## chrisp_1 (Jun 21, 2010)

Good work Peter - impressed! :mrgreen:


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

peter-ss said:


> I've yet to look into camber measurement.


I have now and this looks like a possible contender.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/60cm-Digital-Lase ... 0411174356


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## TTMBTT (Jul 22, 2010)

peter-ss said:


> peter-ss said:
> 
> 
> > I've yet to look into camber measurement.
> ...


 I take it all back, persistant effort on your part looking at this devise your tantalisingly close
to cracking your initial challenge set by yourself. :mrgreen: 
Mark.


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## stevebeechTA (May 16, 2009)

That does look a good bit of kit, perhaps you should make a few up and sell them with destructions on how to use them


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## Sciroccgtx16v (Feb 2, 2009)

A question.
I do not really understand the calibration of the units. Do you compensate for the fact that the TT Quattro has a trackwith of 1528 mm (front ) and 1505 mm (rear).

Fredrik


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Click to enlarge









TO TRACK YOUR TT CORRECTLY IT MUST HAVE ITS FULL WEIGHT ON THE GROUND, a full tank of petrol, tyres with the same wear or near, tyre pressures corrected and the steering wheel locked straight ahead. Adjust track rods and toe plates to get front and rear toe to your preferred amount. Roll the car back and forth after adjustment and before measuring, to allow wheels to settle. You will find that incremental changes will allow you to reach your goal without going past and then having to retrace your steps.

The drawing:
The red line represents the fishing line attached to 4 removable L-shaped uprights bolted to my garage floor with one central bolt. This allows the upright to be swiveled as necessary to get the correct distance from the hub at both ends of the car. The upright has pickup points at the same height as the wheel centers.

The green distances are important and can be anything you choose so long as the line clears your bodywork. The front and rear track are not the same on the TT. The rear is 23mm narrower. This will have to be accounted for when setting the fishing line.

Alignment:
If the pink line is shorter than the blue line (distance from line to rim) you have toe-in.
If the blue line is shorter than the pink line (distance from line to rim) you have toe-out.
If you want zero toe, the pink and blue lines (distance from line to rim) will be the same as each other.

Fishing line works perfectly and is better than string. It is thin and stretches without snapping, making the line very taught. I use black 60lb breaking strain line as this is easy to see against my bright yellow ruler.

Level ground is essential and will make your measurements more accurate. Level floors are as rare as hens' teeth but there are ways of making a level platform providing you have the room in your garage. Life would be a lot simpler if the alignment people could do the job they are paid for. £40 to £60 is nothing compared to having good tyre wear and good handling.

The above is for toe only. Camber should be done first, then tracking. You will need a camber gauge to adjust your camber and a tool to control the wheel from swinging out after releasing the lock nuts on the front end. IMO it's not worth the effort to try and make a camber gauge. There are perfectly good and accurate camber gauges to buy at little cost. Also if you haven't got adjustable rear track control arms you cannot adjust the rear camber. Stretching the rear bushes is a wholly unsatisfactory way of attempting adjustment. That is a whole new chapter on its own. Castor is not adjustable on the TT.

This method is only as accurate as the care you apply to your setup and measurements. Patience is required for best results.

The above does not take into account buckled wheels, which will make your efforts useless.

If you don't have the stomach to make the actual adjustments and engage in this torturous routine you can just check all the measurements relating to what you already have (the easy bit) without changing anything. That way you will be able to see what is needed and be able to judge whether your after tax and NI earnings have been well spent at the alignment depot. Its bit like VCDS, you will be pre-warned with the knowledge needed to counteract the bullshit dished out at the tyre depot/garage. A print out that shows correct settings is not necessarily true, IMO!

The main reasons 4 wheel alignment is mostly pear-shaped is because the equipment is not calibrated often enough, the paddles are not attached to the wheels with care, the correct 'pins' are not used realative to the style of your alloys and the paddles are often damaged due to rough handling and wear, and then there is the ability of the 'technician', lack of time needed to do the job properly and lack of training.

The worse scenario I've encountered was the time I checked the toe after alignment and found the right front wheel toeing in by 7mm and the left front toeing out by 1mm. I took the car back and further adjustments were made making the steering wheel sort of straight on a short run but to my astonishment the changes were such that the settings were so far apart they counteracted each other and gave the impression that all was well.

Enjoy, and preferably have your BUPA payments up to date if you are actually making adjustments as opposed to just checking the settings. You are a brave man if you attempt all this without the use of a four poster lift. I'm speaking from experience.

Joe


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

PS I have one of these http://www.dunlopge.co.uk/Upload/produc ... 38_171.pdf which makes checking easier but the actual adjustments are still very difficult and require a great effort.
I also have the accompanying Dunlop camber/castor gauges http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p4568 ... anguage=en which also help and are essential IMO. Neither of these two gauges
eliminate the effort required to make the actual adjustments.

My own pics:
Camber gauge








The tool below I made myself and is needed to stop the front wheels from slipping out when the nuts are released during front Camber adjustment.









Cheaper versions are out there.

Good luck

Joe


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

I took this picture at the Croft Nostalgia weekend a few weeks ago:









Joe


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

Sciroccgtx16v said:


> A question.
> I do not really understand the calibration of the units. Do you compensate for the fact that the TT Quattro has a trackwith of 1528 mm (front ) and 1505 mm (rear).
> 
> Fredrik


I'm very glad that you asked that question as I didn't realise that the track width was different on the front and the back of the TT!

All I've done to 'calibrate' the units is to align them perfectly over a distance of five metres and adjust the laser to hit the middle of the scale. I've done this with the units on both sides of the line and with each unit turned over, to make sure everything is symetrical.

As I now know that the track width of the rear is 23mm less than that of the front I need to subtract half this (11.5mm) from the reading I've obtained from each wheel. Doing this now brings me to the following values, which are a bit closer to what they should be.

Left Front Toe 0.22 degrees
Right Fron Toe 0.22 degrees
Left Rear Toe 0.37 degrees
Right Rear Toe 0.32 degrees










These values do make sense as the car has a tendancy to want to go to the left, which can be explained by the extra toe on the left rear wheel. It's only slight with me needing to apply light right hand pressure to the wheel to go straight ahead.


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

Joe,

Thanks for your lengthy input on this. I definately need to adjust the camber on one of the front wheels as it was miles out the last time it was on a Hunter Laser Tracking machine but the guy said he couldn't adjust it, which is what started this mad project off in the first place!

I had failed to realise that the track width was different from front to back and knowing this now has brought my toe readings to a more realistic value (basically I need to subtract half the track with difference (11.5mm) from each reading that I take).

Peter


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Hi Peter

These diagrams might be of some use to you:

















































































Hope these help

Joe


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

That's great! Thanks.

I've replaced pretty much all of the front suspension in the last twelve months including all of the bushes, balljoints, track rods and springs so I'm hoping to get repeatable results.

The rear springs are also pretty new so with a bit of luck the rear camber will be within specification (I haven't got adjustable tie bars).

When I replaced the front suspension I fitted all new nuts and bolts. Do you think the three balljoint nuts will need rplacing again after the adjustment?


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## TTMBTT (Jul 22, 2010)

TTCool said:


> Hi Peter
> 
> These diagrams might be of some use to you:
> 
> ...


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

A couple more diagrams; rear toe plates:

























Joe


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## Gone (May 5, 2009)

Peter, this is a great effort and I'm very impressed!

How much of the tendency to pull to the left is due to the uneven set-up, and how much due to the camber on the road?


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

badyaker said:


> Peter, this is a great effort and I'm very impressed!
> 
> How much of the tendency to pull to the left is due to the uneven set-up, and how much due to the camber on the road?


It's always gone slightly to the left, which I put down to the camber of the road, but since fitting new rear traverse link bushes it does it more so. It's reassuring that the front toe is even and it's the rear toe that is different on each side as that's what I've worked on.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=181919&hilit=+diy


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## chrisp_1 (Jun 21, 2010)

This really is a great post (again). Well done Peter :wink:


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Hi Peter

Ten out of ten for tenacity from me!

Quote:
Left Front Toe 0.22 degrees
Right Front Toe 0.22 degrees
Left Rear Toe 0.37 degrees
Right Rear Toe 0.32 degrees

I'm slightly puzzled about the final toe results, though. Audi say that the toe-in on the front should be 4 minutes each side. Your .22 of a degree equates to a toe-in of about 13 minutes. (Slap me if that's not correct: 60 minutes in 1 degree). If that is correct then your toe-in is more than three times the amount of toe-in you should have.

Similarly Audi say the rear toe-in should be 7.5 minutes each side; so your .37 of a degree and .32 of a degree are far more than 7.5 minutes.

Have I read and understood your post correctly? Are you going to make any corrections to your suspension settings?

Incidentally, Audi say that all nuts and bolts should be renewed after removing just like the stretch bolts on the engine mounts when doing the timing belts etc. With regard to this thread I would definitely renew the three nuts which hold the camber setting in place, that is if the camber has been changed/corrected.








Note: These nuts hold the bottom ball joint secure in the slots used for camber adjustment.

Joe


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

I'm not going to make any adjustments just yet. As you say my calculated toe readings are about three times the ideal and roughly one and a half times the maximum allowed (with tolerance).

I do have a problem with the rear of the car skips slighly sideways when you run over a pothole (towards the side of the pothole). I wondered whether I had excessive rear toe that was steering the rear of the car when one of the wheels briefly lost traction. This would makes sense as if the wheels toe in a lot and you lose traction on the left rear wheel the right rear wheel would move the rear of the car towards the left.

I'll get a new set of nuts for the balljoints AGAIN. I've done quite a lot of work on the front suspension in the past and have replaced some of the bolts more than once already!

I'm going to hang fire with any toe adjustments until I've got the camber spot on as with the system I've now got for checking toe the camber will make a difference to my toe measurements. I'm a bit concerned about this now though as the track width of each axel is crucial to the correct measurement of toe, the way I'm doing it. This is how many garages do it though with a projecting light source on one wheel and a gauge to read from on the other.


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## TTCool (Feb 7, 2005)

Peter

Why don't you use the tried and tested fishing line method as in my illustration. I know it's low tech but it works for me, especially when doing a check only. Demon Tweeks do a tool which works alongside the fishing line and makes measauring toe a lot easier. Have a look on e-bay or Demon Tweeks for a camber gauge. You should be able to achieve your goal for not much more than the price of one or two 'professional' alignments. What you are doing can be very satisfying, I agree.

Joe


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

I think I'll give the fishing line method a go and compare the results with my laser setup although as it's also referenced from the hub centres it'll be subject to the same uncertainty (the track width being what it should be).

I'm confident that the laser idea is accurate as I've 'zeroed' it at a distance of ten metres but if the track width difference isn't what it says on paper then the results will be inaccurate.

This is starting to go from black and white to a bit gery now :?


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

For anyone who's still following this and hasn't already lost the will to live, I've done some more calculations to determine what effect a front camber error has on the MEASURED toe. As the laser (and fishing wire) methods reference the readings from the hub centres it's crucial that the track width of the front and rear axle is correct.

In the calculations below I have worked out that a 1 degree error in front camber equates to a hub displacement of 9.60mm. 9.60mm of front hub difference would then give an error of the MEASURED value of toe of 0.24 degrees!

This makes sense as the wheelbase of the car is roughly four times the length of the strut (top pivot to hub centre) so a one degree error in front camber is a quarter of a degree in measure toe.

The big question now is, even if I do get the camber settings all spot on, how likely is it that the track widths will be the same as the specification?


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

I've been giving some thought into how I can accurately measure the actual track width of the car and couldn't come up with anything. Then it hit me that I didn't need to know the track width dimensions; all I need to know is the difference between the two.

All I needed to do to figure this out was to measure from the two wheels to two fixed reference points across the front axle and then the same on the rear and work it out from there. To do this I parked the car between the garage door posts and measured from each wheel to a marked reference point on the door frame using some more bits of metal and a vernier gauge.




























From the measured values I worked out the actual track width difference.










So the track width difference on my car is currently 30.7mm, not the specified 23mm.

Now, I know the measuring method isn't totally precise, as it was just a quick thing to try this morning; before any adjustments are made I'll improve the equipment to do this.

With this new track difference figure I've worked out the toe angles again, from the original measurements taken with the laser and they now work out to be exactly the maximum allowable toe across both axles; 0.26 degrees (total) on the front and 0.50 degrees (total) on the rear.










I still yet have to create a perfectly level surface before making any adjustments but I'm quite confident now that I can accurately set the cars wheel alignment.

I PLAN TO DO THIS AS FOLLOWS.

1. Measure and adjust the camber of each wheel 
2. Measure and calculate the track with difference 
3. Calculate the required toe measurement (where the beam should land on the scale for the required toe angle at the measure track width difference
4. Adjust the toe of each wheel


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

Well I've now made a set of John-H's wooden ramps; well almost as B&Q didn't have the wood specified in John-H's plans below.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62767&start=0&hilit=wood+ramps+john

I ended up going for a sandwich of two 47mm thickness pieces and a 25mm thickness piece, giving a total lift of 119mm (the lowest point on my TT is a piece of plastic in the middle of the car that's 21mm from the ground).

I bought two 150 x 47mm x 2.4m lengths and one 150 x 25mm x 3.6m length costing £22 in total plus used some screws, wood glue and baton that I already had.

Here's the construction in pictures.














































And despite not having enough time yesterday to carry out the tracking adjustments I still had to give them a try!



















With the laser tracking parts tested, a method of measuring the track width in place and the four wheel ramps made I'm now ready to go for it and carry out proper measurements and adjustments.


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

UPDATE

I have created myself a perfectly level platform from which to take my wheel alignment measurements. I've done this using some vinyl floor tiles, some chopped up laminate floor and a bucket full of water with a clear plastic pipe to check the level (a method that I came across on you tube).

I marked out where the four wheels would be and the found the highest point and put one vinyl floor tile there. With the end of the tube strapped to my spirit level (a piece of wood would do), I marked where the water level came to an then applied the required tiles to the other three locations to make them level.




























With the car level I re-did all of my previous measurements, including the track width difference using a slightly improved method.




























In addition to this I have also measured the camber of each wheel using a digital spirit level. The digital spirit level cost £30 and is accurate to 0.1 degrees, which is more than enough for the camber measurement. The only alteration I've made to it is to temporarily attach two plastic number plate screws to it, which will touch onto the wheel rims. Now before anyone questions the accuracy of the taped on plastic studs, the tape is there just to hold them in position and the spirit level has a calibration procedure, which in this case includes the studs. You have to place the level down and press a calibration button and then turn it around in the same position and press the calibration button again. I did this on a firm flat surface and for greater accuracy marked where to place it each way round.










Now measuring the camber was as simple as presenting the spirit level to the wheel and reading the screen. To make it as accurate as possible I made sure the level was central to the wheel and held it loosely at first to allow it to find its own vertical position. I took reading with the level both ways round to make sure they came out the same.










The other measurement I needed to check the rear camber was the distance from the centre of the rear hubs to the wheel arch.










Now with all the figures written down I worked out the following values.










Now these figures are really interesting to me because the front toe is now spot on and since my last wheel alignment no work has been carried out to the front suspension. The front camber is a bit on the high side but within limits so there's no major problem at the front.

The rear suspension, however, that I have worked on is a different story. The toe is pretty much double what it should be (as I originally suspected) but the camber is also above the maximum limit.

The problem is though that the rear camber isn't adjustable although it may be possible to get enough adjustment by simply loosening the traverse link bolts and moving the hub carrier?


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

REAR TOE ADJUSTEMNT

Right, The rear traverse link mounting points are about 250mm apart so to reduce the rear camber by the 0.93 degree error is going to take an adjustment of 4mm on one of the bars or an opposite adjustment of 2mm on both bars each side.










As I'm not going to be able to get this much adjustment from just loosening the bolts and moving things slightly I've decided to go for the rear toe adjustment anyway.

To do this I needed the car on level ground but raised this time so I can get underneath. I got the car on the wooden ramps and then marked the ramp positions on the ground.










Then the car was taken off the ramps, and the ramps put back into position and the tops levelled, with the water in the tube method used before, and tiles placed on top to suit.










With the car back on the level ramps the laser devices were reattached and the required point on the scale calculated; this was 20.6mm. To achieve this the toe plates were loosened and the plates tapped across with a hammer and chisel (as squarely as possible) until in the correct position.




























With the correct toe measured.










The four bolts were torqued to the correct specification (75Nm).










The car was rocked backwards and forwards during this process to allow the wheel to settle in its new position.

RESULTS

I've taken the car on a test drive, just now, and I am very pleased with the result. Unfortunately the worst bit of road for making the car skip has just been resurfaced, but I shouldn't complain about that! It's still stable in a straight line at high speed and hasn't skipped sideways at all on any of the potholes that I managed to find tonight. The steering wheel is still straight and I think there's less of a tendency for it to pull towards the left. So all in all it's mission accomplished  although now the toe and skipping seems to be sorted I've now got the problem of the out of spec rear camber to look into. :roll:


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

Marvelous Peter! My wooden ramps, the bucket, tube and tiles - Deja vu or what I think! :lol: The track difference is a pain and you've already found this varies with camber adjustment but camber also varies with the top mount position (your mounts can be distorted) and any body chassis misalignment as this is never perfect. The front sub frame can also be moved from left to right and can also be twisted affecting both camber and caster.

Ultimately, whether the car drives straight or not is the best indication of symetry and zero thrust angle but you need to be on the crown of the road camber in order to remove the road's camber effect from the result.

The wheels should be parallel straight when driving straight and if this condition is met then the wheels can all be different distances from the car centre line without greatly affecting geometry.

Bear in mind also that if you have to constantly pull the steering wheel off centre to counteract a drift (e.g rear toe difference causing non zero thrust) then your front wheels will toe out causing inside edge wear.

Rear suspension height and camber are interrelated with toe.


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## TTQ2K2 (Jun 25, 2009)

Absolutely fookin amazing!!!   

That being said, I'll gladly pay to have the pros align mine.

But without hesitation, I can say, "Peter, you are my new hero!" for the outstanding effort.

cheers mate.


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## V6RUL (May 28, 2009)

Has made me realise the indie i use for the alignment isnt taking into account the ride height for calculating the geometry required.
Someones going to get it..
Steve


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## steveupton (Mar 23, 2010)

Your perseverance and intelligence in devising work-arounds is truly amazing, you deserved to get there in the end.

May be you should start offering a service to other members - at say half normal cost? - just joking. Very, very well done.


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## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

steveupton said:


> Your perseverance and intelligence in devising work-arounds is truly amazing, you deserved to get there in the end.
> 
> May be you should start offering a service to other members - at say half normal cost? - just joking. Very, very well done.


+1 very impressed 

Charlie


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

stevecollier said:


> Has made me realise the indie i use for the alignment isnt taking into account the ride height for calculating the geometry required.
> Someones going to get it..
> Steve


Before someone gets it, the ride height is only required for checking and adjusting the rear camber.


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

John-H said:


> Marvelous Peter! My wooden ramps, the bucket, tube and tiles - Deja vu or what I think! :lol: The track difference is a pain and you've already found this varies with camber adjustment but camber also varies with the top mount position (your mounts can be distorted) and any body chassis misalignment as this is never perfect. The front sub frame can also be moved from left to right and can also be twisted affecting both camber and caster.
> 
> Ultimately, whether the car drives straight or not is the best indication of symetry and zero thrust angle but you need to be on the crown of the road camber in order to remove the road's camber effect from the result.
> 
> ...


I've relpaced pretty much all of the front suspension; shock absorbers, springs, balljoints, top mounts and bearings, wishbone bushes, track rods and track rod ends, within the last year, so that should all be good.

On the rear only the springs and outer traverse link (tie bar) bushes have been replaced up to now but I'm sure that's about to change.

The car drives really well, it brakes and accelerates in a nice straight line, with the wheel in the straight ahead position and it even feels a bit more willing to go round bends now. 

The main issue I have yet to sort out however is the rear camber; currently 2.5 degrees, after which I'll go through the whole set-up procedure again.

I've started a new post relating to the rear camber issue. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=182759&start=0


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

So you've not got a pull to one side now? Sounds like you've sorted it then - well done!


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## peter-ss (Sep 3, 2008)

No, although it was only a slight pull, but more importantly it seems to have cured the rear of the car skipping sideways on potholes.


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