# Ford Focus ST RS.



## Iceman (Jul 3, 2004)

The car will have a 280-300 hp 2.5 liter 5 cylinder turbo engine and it's rumoured as having FWD only.

Hans.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

POS


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Leg said:


> POS


I agree


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Makes me laugh, if it was a vw or audi ( the S3 looks like every other A3 and the Gti looks like every other golf) with 300bhp it would be great, fantastic best thing since petrol was invented with people salivating over it. Wrong badge i guess! Looks as good as the silly, pointless crappy ED30s.

Is it the fact that the reg plate has RS on it the sole reason its said or thought to be the RS? If so I'll post up my TT as an RS model :lol: 
Else it could also be the new Golf 32 if the banner in the back ground is to be believed :wink:

300bhp - bugger, guess i'm going to get spanked at the lights again. Don't focus St's chip upto 300bhp anyway? So it is as pointless as the ED30 at the end of the day - but loads faster and wont break down every 5mins.

Audi take note at the power from the engine!


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## jbell (May 15, 2006)

Widget said:


> Leg said:
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> > POS
> ...


Seconded


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

Toshiba said:


> 300bhp - bugger, guess i'm going to get spanked at the lights again. Don't focus St's chip upto 300bhp anyway? So it is as pointless as the ED30 at the end of the day - but loads faster and wont break down every 5mins.


The ED30 chips up to 300bhp...standard GTI doesn't.


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## deckard (Apr 4, 2005)

280-300 bhp through just the front wheels surely can't be good.


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## Rhod_TT (May 7, 2002)

The only thing I like about the Focus ST is the Volvo engine. Got a similar 5cyl (non turbo) in my 850 and it sounds pretty nice for a barge. I really don't like the way the C30 is remarked by the motoring press as having a Ford engine. It's a Volvo engine through and through and the ST just adopted it.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Carlos said:


> Toshiba said:
> 
> 
> > 300bhp - bugger, guess i'm going to get spanked at the lights again. Don't focus St's chip upto 300bhp anyway? So it is as pointless as the ED30 at the end of the day - but loads faster and wont break down every 5mins.
> ...


Who says? I've not seen anything on the boards - but it would explain why vw have launched such an abomination.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

Toshiba said:


> Makes me laugh, if it was a vw or audi ( the S3 looks like every other A3 and the Gti looks like every other golf) with 300bhp it would be great, fantastic best thing since petrol was invented with people salivating over it. Wrong badge i guess! Looks as good as the silly, pointless crappy ED30s.
> 
> Is it the fact that the reg plate has RS on it the sole reason its said or thought to be the RS? If so I'll post up my TT as an RS model :lol:
> Else it could also be the new Golf 32 if the banner in the back ground is to be believed :wink:
> ...


Actually my comment was based on it being FWD, show me a picture of any FWD 'performance' car and ill respond POS, especially if it has more than 200bhp. FWD is for my wife's family bus.


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

Toshiba said:


> Carlos said:
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http://uk-mkvs.net/forums/thread/855115.aspx

http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... c&start=10


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Leg said:


> Toshiba said:
> 
> 
> > Makes me laugh, if it was a vw or audi ( the S3 looks like every other A3 and the Gti looks like every other golf) with 300bhp it would be great, fantastic best thing since petrol was invented with people salivating over it. Wrong badge i guess! Looks as good as the silly, pointless crappy ED30s.
> ...


FWD is OK.

Clio Cup and Integra TR both show how well a FWD car can steer/handle at around the 200hp level, and can both embarass many a 'superior' car at the circuit (even a PQ35 Golf-derived car like the TT mkII , eh Tosh? :wink: )

The slick shod Clio cup racers at J Palmer are astonishing.

Focus i RS showed how not to deploy 200hp+ on a road car.

But it's the turbo torque rather than the specific power output that can make 200+hp a bit of a handful on the road.


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## TTwiggy (Jul 20, 2004)

Leg said:


> Toshiba said:
> 
> 
> > Makes me laugh, if it was a vw or audi ( the S3 looks like every other A3 and the Gti looks like every other golf) with 300bhp it would be great, fantastic best thing since petrol was invented with people salivating over it. Wrong badge i guess! Looks as good as the silly, pointless crappy ED30s.
> ...


Alfa 147gta - reckon it would go round a track a fair bit quicker than a 'quattro' TT...


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

A car is only as good as the comparison ie it can be great when compared to the golf or poor when compared to the DB9. Even cars with the sameish platform can feel immensely different from just minor changes like bushes or shocks.

I don't have any delusions that the TT is the best thing ever - its not.
I'm also not delusional about a badge making a car better than another - hence the reason i always pipe up when people say the golf is better than the focus, when it really isnt. But If you want one or the other thats alls that matters really.

I dont take a score card with me and measure one agaist the other - i buy what i want at a point in time.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

FWD is sh1te in a 'performance' car, full stop, I live in Yorkshire, it kinda rains here, a fair bit. My number one pet hate is a T Junction, in the wet (and dry sometimes) FWD car, gap, turning right, foot down and whaddya know, torque steer, juddering, wheel spin. Crap. Hate em with a vengeance. Rather walk.

Fine in the wifes B Class for tootling round, if you want to drive aggresively, pants.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Leg said:


> FWD is sh1te in a 'performance' car, full stop, I live in Yorkshire, it kinda rains here, a fair bit. My number one pet hate is a T Junction, in the wet (and dry sometimes) FWD car, gap, turning right, foot down and whaddya know, torque steer, juddering, wheel spin. Crap. Hate em with a vengeance. Rather walk.
> 
> Fine in the wifes B Class for tootling round, if you want to drive aggresively, pants.


Erm...

If you try that in a TT, you get initial loss of grip, followed by power to the rears. It is still FWD most of the time, so I don't understand the argument.

If it had RWD bias I could see where you are coming from, but Haldex is FAR from "proper" 4WD.

If you can't drive away from a T-junction "aggressively" in a car with FWD, you need to practice your technique, as it is obviously lacking...


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

jampott said:


> Leg said:
> 
> 
> > FWD is sh1te in a 'performance' car, full stop, I live in Yorkshire, it kinda rains here, a fair bit. My number one pet hate is a T Junction, in the wet (and dry sometimes) FWD car, gap, turning right, foot down and whaddya know, torque steer, juddering, wheel spin. Crap. Hate em with a vengeance. Rather walk.
> ...


Not in mine, sports haldex will even allow mine to fishtail. Thats why I spent a small fortune sorting the handling AND the quattro. So it doesnt handle like a POS FWD shopping trolley. Unfortunately for the money there isnt a decent (and dont say RX8) 4 seater coupe that is as nice as a TT so I have to buy a TT, and then make it work properly.

Yada Yada technique b0llocks, people always post that kind of rubbish. What, so everyone with a DSG has one as they have no skill in changing gears? FWD is crap for performance cars, period. Rather than argue with me why not email the engineers at BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Maserati and a whole pile of other proper sports car manufacturers and ask them when they are releasing their FWD model? Be sure to post it when you get a reply.

Even Nissan know better.

The only 'performance' cars with FWD are hot hatches. This thread is a case in point.

Technique :roll:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Leg said:


> jampott said:
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> > Leg said:
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Audi make a FWD TT dontcha know...

So you are tarred by the FWD brush whether you like it or not.

That you've had to modify your car to remove (some of) the FWD bias speaks rather more for how Audi designed it and rather less for how you drive it.

Whilst it isn't the greatest idea to power the same wheels used for steering, for a LOT of people on the road, controlling a FWD car is more intuitive (and therefore safer) than RWD.

If you don't like it, fine... but that doesn't mean its wonky by any means.


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

Tsssh even my Chavriot has a Driver controlled centre diff i can lock it if need be, or i can go i can go full RWD ( good for donuts and Imprezing da bitches in my local Aldi car park ) :lol:


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

jampott said:


> Audi make a FWD TT dontcha know...
> 
> So you are tarred by the FWD brush whether you like it or not.


Not sure what that means Jam? Im not tarred by FWD at all, mine isnt FWD its Quattro as all V6s are?

If you mean the image I fail to see what that has to do with it as I couldnt give a flying sexual act about image when it comes to handling, I just hate crappy torque steer, juddery FWD, understeer poop.



jampott said:


> That you've had to modify your car to remove (some of) the FWD bias speaks rather more for how Audi designed it and rather less for how you drive it.


Couldnt agree more, Audi arsed major parts of the TT up when with a few small changes it could have been so much better, as a few mods show. As for how I drive it even set up as it is I find it is still rather too 'safe' for me after running a road legal Westfield for a few years. The TT excels in so many areas it has been easy to overlook its shortcomings, even with mods. Im not so sure how forgiving Ill be next time.



jampott said:


> Whilst it isn't the greatest idea to power the same wheels used for steering, for a LOT of people on the road, controlling a FWD car is more intuitive (and therefore safer) than RWD.


Couldnt agree more again, I wouldnt let my Mrs out in a RWD car even in the height of summer never mind winter. She once drove my Westfield and Ive never been so scared in all my life. Doesnt mean those of us into our cars need nor want it.

Budget is a factor too though and I understand that. I want a 2+2 coupe. I would prefer RWD but the only one I can think of off the top of my head that I would have is a 997 and frankly, I wouldnt spend Â£70K on a car at this point in time.

Same goes for anyone buying a sub Â£20K car. Budget pretty much dictates that if u want a 'sports' car with oomph its probably going to be a FWD Hot hatch.

Off to play footy, back later.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

jampott said:


> you need to practice your technique, as it is obviously lacking...


Im getting paranoid now, a few people have mentioned my technique


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

> Not sure what that means Jam? Im not tarred by FWD at all, mine isnt FWD its Quattro as all V6s are?


Just that Audi make the TT as a solely FWD car, and also as a part-time FWD car. You are driving something designed to be FWD.

I know your V6 is a quattro (not a Quattro you understand, that's completely different) but for all intents and purposes, its still FWD whether you like it or not.

Anyway, you might not have such bad torque steer, but you don't have anything like the engine placement which is even CLOSE to desirable in any sort of "sports" car. I once popped the bonnet to compare the 350z and TT V6 engine bays. Whilst Nissan managed to shoehorn in a 3.5L v6 into theirs, most of it was behind the front axle. In the TT, most of the engine sits over and in front of the front axle. That doesn't do it for ANYONE in the handling stakes, regardless of how you fuck around with Haldex controllers, arbs and suspension arms.

I like the TT, but it isn't a sports car, and to hear someone raving about how great it is and how crap FWD cars are is pretty much a joke, TBH. If you drove an M3 or similar, I might take it a bit more seriously - but you are driving a FWD car based on a VW Golf, yet want to slate hot hatches?

Carry on...


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

I think you over simplify the heldex system.

FWD is not able to put down the power, heldex allows the power to be transferred to the rear wheels in cars equiped with this system.

Agree the TT wont drive like the M3 or a TVR, but the TT is not going to spin off backwards if you put the power down on a wet roundabout and try to kill you.
Its a happy medium or balance between rear wheel and front wheel - nothing more. Does it handle power better than FWD only cars - yes without a doubt.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Toshiba said:


> I think you over simplify the heldex system.
> 
> FWD is not able to put down the power, heldex allows the power to be transferred to the rear wheels in cars equiped with this system.
> 
> ...


I'm not oversimplifying it. I know how it works and I've driven enough miles in Haldex cars to know how it drives. My last 4 cars have been:

FWD
Haldex
RWD
Torsien

*shrug*

My point is, Haldex is primarily a FWD-biased system - it ONLY kicks in under slip conditions. I just think that, if someone drives such a car, they've no basis for slagging off FWD. Afterall, that *is* how their own car behaves 90% of the time.


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## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

jampott said:


> Toshiba said:
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> 
> > I think you over simplify the heldex system.
> ...


Not strictly true with the Haldex PP Tim. I believe it works on throttle input as opposed to wheel slip. Hence transferring torque to the rear *before* slippage occurs.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

NaughTTy said:


> jampott said:
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I know the performance controller is different. I'm talking primarily about the original TT. As Audi intended.


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

But 90% of the time it doesn't matter - its the 10% that does. (using your numbers.)

When do you need one over the other?
is RWD better than FWD at 70mph on the motorway?
is FWD better at 10mph round town?

All systems are a trade off against something.


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

jampott said:


> > Not sure what that means Jam? Im not tarred by FWD at all, mine isnt FWD its Quattro as all V6s are?
> 
> 
> Just that Audi make the TT as a solely FWD car, and also as a part-time FWD car. You are driving something designed to be FWD.
> ...


Are you serious? Have you read my posts in this thread? Ive clearly stated that the TT isnt the greatest sports car and ive had to spend a small fortune sorting the handling out. You can provide sensible, factual argument, there is no need to make up what I havent said. Show me where I 'rave' about the TT as a sports car?

All I have said is that FWD is crap, that quattro is a little better, sports haldex quattro is even better and RWD is the best. Thats it.

Not a single rave about the TT??? :? In fact, quite the opposite.

My car wont spin the front wheels, believe me I try cos I drive it quite hard. In fact it drives better the harder you push it because the sports haldex reacts to power input as well as wheel spin.

WTF engine placement between the TT and 350Z has to do with FWD I dont know. U seem to have gone off on a new argument with someone else about egine placement and raves about TTs, no idea who? :roll:

If ure gonna debate something please dont make stuff up that I havent said, especially you Jam, u dont need to. Thats the joke Im afraid, especially as its plain to anyone reading the thread. :lol:

Is this me raving about the TT in a quote from page 2??????? :?



Leg said:


> Couldnt agree more, Audi arsed major parts of the TT up when with a few small changes it could have been so much better, as a few mods show. As for how I drive it even set up as it is I find it is still rather too 'safe' for me after running a road legal Westfield for a few years. The TT excels in so many areas it has been easy to overlook its shortcomings, even with mods. Im not so sure how forgiving Ill be next time.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Leg said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > > Not sure what that means Jam? Im not tarred by FWD at all, mine isnt FWD its Quattro as all V6s are?
> ...


I'm not making anything up! You're slating every FWD car as shite, purely on the basis that they are FWD. I'm just pointing out that the TT is FWD (for the most part) so you are tarring your own car with the same brush!

I bought up the engine-bay differences as a continuation of the "argument" that the TT isn't a great handling car as standard either. Changing the arbs, springs, shocks and haldex controller won't sort that little problem out. Which part of that aren't you getting? It is all part of the same problem.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

> FWD is crap for performance cars, period. Rather than argue with me why not email the engineers at BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Maserati and a whole pile of other proper sports car manufacturers and ask them when they are releasing their FWD model?


My answer to this point was:

1) the TT range has FWD models. Even the quattro ones are FWD most of the time.
2) FWD is not crap for performance cars, period. But even if it is, the v6 TT is not only (mainly) FWD, but also has seriously dodgy engine placement to boot.

Are you thick or something?


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

jampott said:


> Leg said:
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> > jampott said:
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Yes you are, cant even read your own posts now. You clearly stated I 'RAVED' about the TT. Where? Quote me saying that in this thread.

You're talking crap about handling mods sorting the handling out on the TT too. As I CLEARLY stated it isnt perfect (I cant be arsed to quote myself again for your benefit just read back) but it is much improved.

Has Rebel hacked your account?


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

> Not in mine, sports haldex will even allow mine to fishtail. Thats why I spent a small fortune sorting the handling AND the quattro. So it doesnt handle like a POS FWD shopping trolley.


Sounds suspiciously like "raving" to my untrained ears...  :wink: :-*

Besides, you DO rave (in general) and why not?


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

jampott said:


> > Not in mine, sports haldex will even allow mine to fishtail. Thats why I spent a small fortune sorting the handling AND the quattro. So it doesnt handle like a POS FWD shopping trolley.
> 
> 
> Sounds suspiciously like "raving" to my untrained ears...  :wink: :-*
> ...


LMAO, now ure clutching at straws Jampott. Hardly raving is it, especially when we look at the context in which it was posted....



Leg said:


> jampott said:
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> 
> > Leg said:
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So let me get this right. You say that in a TT ill get an initial loss of grip and then power goes to the rears and when I remind you I have sports haldex which doesnt work like that, hence the Â£500 investment in it, im raving. Ok Jam, whatever you say. :roll:

Hell I even go on to say I spent a load of money sorting out the inherent problems the TT has with handling and quattro. Hardly raving.

I havent 'raved' since the hacienda in 1991. Rant yes.


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

Leg said:


> All I have said is that FWD is crap, that quattro is a little better, sports haldex quattro is even better and RWD is the best. Thats it.


 :lol: at this thread, good reading though! The above statement is 100% indisputable fact.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Part time 4wd is for people with poor throttle control. :wink:

Full time 4wd is for Scooby sluts and Evo egoists. :twisted:

RWD is for performance driving. 8)

Well sorted fwd is safe and fine for hot hatches and pseudo sports coupes

Torsen full time 4wd has been superior to cost-conscious part time Haldex in every iteration Audi that has come up with since the ur quattro. Messing around with Haldex SW tuning is little more than just pissing around with degrees of part time 4wd.

A measured and balanced input of throttle opening, available traction and steering input angle, is an invaluable aid to both safety and progress - no matter what engineering compromises your car carries.


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

garyc said:


> Part time 4wd is for people with poor throttle control. :wink:
> 
> Full time 4wd is for Scooby sluts and Evo egoists. :twisted:
> 
> RWD is for performance driving. 8)


A Scoobs 4wd can bite as well................. you bitch :wink:


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## Leg (Jan 11, 2006)

Where did Jam go?


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Leg said:


> Where did Jam go?


Still here. I'm with Gary on this one.


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