# Track Days?????



## jog (Oct 13, 2003)

Has there ever been one for TTs, If so where was it, how much per car and what went into organising it?

Is there due to be one in the future and where is it / where would it be?

I don't want to thrash the guts out of my car all day but a few laps of high revs and squealing tyres (without the fear of helping to fund the local constabulary's Chrismas ball and earning 3 points on the prosess :? ) would be fun. 

I know there are various types of track day so please post your experiences and preferences.

Jog


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## r14n (Jan 10, 2003)

JOG, The TTOC has held two days at Oulton Park. One very cheap (thanks to Audi) and the other was IIRC 80 squid ?

and the ultimate track day you've just missed ( I of M ) and the chaps are planning a trip to the Nurnburgring in Sept.

I'm sure another one or two more UK based one's will be sorted for this year.

I would like to do one at the Anglesey track that 5th gear use.

NO I'm not organising it, someone else can be the victim / co-ordinator.

Ian.


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## rolandgttuning (Jan 6, 2004)

Thats the spirit!

Your locals are Goodwood and Castle Combe. CC`s own days are Â£150 on 4/6/04, 30/6/04, 21/7/04, 2/8/04, 18/8/04, 1/9/04, 29/9/04. For lists of track days "CCC" mag is good or "Circuit Driver" list them all.To drive every track properly get a copy of the RAC circuit guide.Incidently I am taking our TT upto CC on 4/6/04 to test it prior to VW/Audi CC track day on 24/6/04. Come along if you want.

Regards Roland GTT


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## jog (Oct 13, 2003)

rolandgttuning said:


> Thats the spirit!
> 
> Your locals are Goodwood and Castle Combe. CC`s own days are Â£150 on 4/6/04, 30/6/04, 21/7/04, 2/8/04, 18/8/04, 1/9/04, 29/9/04. For lists of track days "CCC" mag is good or "Circuit Driver" list them all.To drive every track properly get a copy of the RAC circuit guide.Incidently I am taking our TT upto CC on 4/6/04 to test it prior to VW/Audi CC track day on 24/6/04. Come along if you want.
> 
> Regards Roland GTT


Thanks for info Roland, will probably talk to you more about this when we meet with you at the end of June.
Thanks for the invite to come along to CC but will be on the beach in the Caribbean at the time - bummer. 8)


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## TThrill (Jan 17, 2004)

Jog/Ian

Defo interested in some Trackday fun! IOM was good on the track (and the airfield!) I've been looking enviously at the Nurburgring thread where Rob/Steve and others are planning a trip but this looks a bit too hardcore for me (take a look at this http://www.westfield-sportscars.co.uk/video.htm its a big download but worth it, checkout the XTR 4 as well!). I pass Castle Combe circuit on my way to work so know it well but Â£150 sounds a bit steep, is it worth it? Will my std 225 keep up with the pace, I don't fancy spending all my time checking the mirrors!


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

What ever car you go in you HAVE to spend all your time looking in your mirrors. Since there are RUF 911's, tuned/stripped out M3's, etc along with banzai nutters on motorbikes you simply HAVE to live in your mirrors.

Jog - I organised the TTOC one at Oulton after Audi let us have the track. For members it was only Â£10!!! For non-members they had to add Â£25 to join making it Â£35. This is the cheapest I've ever seen and yet I still had to open it up to some other forums for fear of am enbarrassing turn out. We ended up with about 30odd cars. I decided that there aren't enough people on this forum that are interested enough to put in the effort for another one.

It's a shame you didn't post a couple of days ago as yesterday afternoon/evening I was at Bedford Autodrome. CliveD was the only TT there. We all had an excellant time (RS4, S4, S3, TT, S2000, Elise, R32, etc). A long fast track with only about 15 of us using it. What superb fun and a great way to get to know your cars handling, improve your driving abilities and hence improve on your driving safety.


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

scoTTy said:


> I decided that there aren't enough people on this forum that are interested enough to put in the effort for another one.


ScoTTy,
I was very surprised and disappointed to read this post.

I don't recall it being discussed before you made this judgement.

The Oulton day was great, and I think the posts afterwards would have tempted many more Track Day virgins to giove it a go - especially on a TT / Audi only day.

If you aren't prepared to put the effort in, I'm sure we can muster the TTOC to do it. However, since you are the Audi Liaison you are the most likely to hear of availability. BTW how many did RS246 have at their day ( with and without TTs)


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

I something comes up from Audi then of course I wouldn't turn it away. I'd probably run with it or at least pass it on to someone in the TTOC.

It wasn't discussed on here before making this judgement as I make many decisions about my life without the assistance of the forum. :wink:

The RS246 day had a few more. I'll post a pic later.


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## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

scoTTy said:


> It wasn't discussed on here before making this judgement as I make many decisions about my life without the assistance of the forum. :wink:


I meant with NuTTs or CliveD, rather than on here!


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## rolandgttuning (Jan 6, 2004)

Hi guys

Personally I think the lack of interest in track days for TTs is maybe that
people have been brainwashed into believing thier car is inferior (lap times wise) to practicaly everything else on the track and given up,Why? With just a 260 bhp chip and massive front brakes,driven properly theTT is as quick as the Evo, impreza, 911, civic type R, etc.(standard examples).
With road legal track day tyres, suspension, exhaust, stiff strutbrace wide wheel spacers (front) and a little weight loss it is quicker.
Advice/ tuition is free to anyone that is fed up with getting slaughtered!

ps The stopwatch doesn't lie,we rate the TT high.


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## jog (Oct 13, 2003)

rolandgttuning said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Personally I think the lack of interest in track days for TTs is maybe that
> people have been brainwashed into believing thier car is inferior (lap times wise) to practicaly everything else on the track and given up,Why? With just a 260 bhp chip and massive front brakes,driven properly theTT is as quick as the Evo, impreza, 911, civic type R, etc.(standard examples).
> ...


 [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## andyc (Apr 29, 2003)

I often go to goodwood track at lunch times while at work, I have seen many track days but never seen any TTs.

I am put off because I dont want to come off the track and have to pay for repairs.. also a friend of mine has a Evo6, he often tracks it and have lost count the number of times he has had to replace brake discs/Pads and tyres.


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## hutters (Jul 16, 2002)

I'm a little sad to hear that this hadn't been publicised before the event.

I've really enjoyed the group track days that I have done so far (and so has the wife-to-be) but I've not got round to organising something on my own. I probably would have gone had I known about it (assuming it was open to others of course!). I'd rather do a track day with people I know and trust(?) rather than turn up at a public event where there's likely to be 200 quid golf's, etc. just going for it with no consideration for others.

I'm not saying that anyone should be responsible for organising an event, but if a few people were planning on doing a day, then maybe just post a thread posting details of where, when, costs, etc. then it's down to each of us to make our own arrangementsif we wanted to be there too :?


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## rolandgttuning (Jan 6, 2004)

Fair comment,yes crashing is not good, if you're going too fast into the corner,get off the brakes and turn in early. If you go in hard enough you will come out the other side for sure.We use 341mm discs which don't wear out quickly, get a set of racing compound front pads and a spare pair of front wheels/tyres,and fit them at the track.Change back at the end of the day


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Rob,

I think that ScoTTy's comment is fair. We couldn't get anywhere near enough people to fill the Oulton Park day and that was practically free. IOW trip was pretty poorly subscribed. No-one apart from me went on the RS246 evening... Not quite the same, but only myself and Norman are taking TT's to the Audi Driving Experience day that ScoTTy has booked for us... Ultimately I don't think that it's fair for us to rely on ScoTTy to organise track days - as the sticky post says, if you've got an idea, IM me. I've only had one message since that went up asking about track days...

I'm sure there are lots of people who wouldn't mind putting their car on the track, but problem seems to be cost. Oulton was the cheapest possible track day and really not that many people were interested (all things considered). I think it's just that it's a lot of effort to put in without knowing how many people would DEFINATELY stump up say Â£150 for a TT only track day - you need a lot of people to make it viable.

Saying all that, it sounds like now there are maybe a few more people around on the forum interested in tracking their cars. How about a quick straw poll: Who would be prepared to pay (say) Â£150 for a TT(OC or Forum) only track day - bearing in mind if you say yes, you might be asked to put your money where your mouth is! 

Clive


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## jog (Oct 13, 2003)

On the basis that noboby wants to commit to oganising a trackday yet, where would the prefered choice of track be, and for arguements sake who would go.
Why not gauge the numbers / interest, cost and the prefered site (either by locality or experience) and see how the numbers stack up.


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## jog (Oct 13, 2003)

Sorry Clive,
Was obviously replying at the same time as you. I think we were trying to make similar points


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## hutters (Jul 16, 2002)

I think with Oulton Park even though it was almost free, it was a long way to go (most of the TT Popoulation being South East-ish) resulting in hotel accomodation, dinner & booze  , it was a weekday and was relatively short notice IIRC.

Also, if we're gonna do a TTOC event, remember not all members visit this forum, thus it needs to be planned and advertised well in advance.


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## jog (Oct 13, 2003)

Depending on date and locality, I should be there.


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## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

jog said:


> On the basis that noboby wants to commit to oganising a trackday yet, where would the prefered choice of track be, and for arguements sake who would go.
> Why not gauge the numbers / interest, cost and the prefered site (either by locality or experience) and see how the numbers stack up.


I would think that Donington Park would be accessible to more people than
most other race tracks.

It also has the huge advantage of large run off areas with lots of cat litter, there is very little Armco near to the track to hit and therefore I think that itâ€™s one of the harder tracks to damage your bodywork on if something goes wrong.
The GP circuit is really hard on brakes but has the advantage of being longer than the National circuit and therefore less congested.

Castle Combe is great but probably not too accessible to most people.
You do overtake on the right at Combe, so on the whole you are not pulling off the racing line to let faster people past (IMO a big advantage for those of us who regularly get overtaken!)
There is however very little room for error; go off at Tower for example and there is NOWHERE to go! I went on a private Track Day there last month and three people damaged their cars at Quarry. There are also no pit garages, a real pain if it rains.

IMO Silverstone (very close to me) is really boring in anything but a seriously fast car and it is very expensive.

These are the only three circuits I have driven.

Doningtonâ€™s public Track Days are run in sessions of 20 minutes in every hour and this year cost Â£145, a large increase from last yearâ€™s Â£95 but they have had the track re-surfaced over the winter.
If I am persuaded that there would be enough interest I will contact the circuit operations manager at Donington and see at what price we could buy our own private 20 minute slot in every hour (usually 7) for the day.

It doesnâ€™t matter how slow you or your car are (so long as you do your best to get out of the way of faster cars at vital moments) you WILL have a great dayâ€¦â€¦. unless IMO it rains!!!!!!


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Interesting idea for the 20 minute slot / (40 minutes sat on your thumbs I assume?  ) although personally, I like the idea of getting enough of us to make an open pit-lane session a reality, much as RS246 did at Bedford.


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## paulb (May 6, 2002)

I don't personally think the GT Loop adds anything at Donington apart from eating brake pads. I do think that sessions work well as they force people to rest themselves and their cars - a full day get tiring at more than about 20/25 minutes in the hour.

Remember most pukka circuits are fully booked over summer weekends with race meets so a lot of trackdays have to be in the week. The exception to this is places like Bedford which is cracking for a weekend day. I went to a couple with SELOC for about Â£140 for a full day, open pit lane.

For a decent venue, you can expect to pay Â£100 to Â£200 depending on time etc.

I'd be tempted to speak to Jonny at Bookatrack or Marcus at Easytrack about allocated times within a sessioned day.

I might be up for it in an oil burner!


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

hutters said:


> I'm a little sad to hear that this hadn't been publicised before the event.


I'm confused :? What hasn't been publiscised before what event?


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## t7 (Nov 2, 2002)

hutters said:


> I think with Oulton Park even though it was almost free, it was a long way to go (most of the TT Popoulation being South East-ish) resulting in hotel accomodation, dinner & booze  , it was a weekday and was relatively short notice IIRC.
> 
> Also, if we're gonna do a TTOC event, remember not all members visit this forum, thus it needs to be planned and advertised well in advance.


I'd echo Graemes post - I would have come up if it hadn't been a weekday at short notice. If we had sufficient advance notice (a couple of months) we could also have advertised to our non-TTF TTOC members and contacted local dealers to ask them to invite local customers. I'm sure we'd have had a lot more interest. Also as ownership of TT's becomes "cheaper" I'm sure a lot more owners will be prepared to track them...

L


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

I would love to do it - but the wife simply does not want to even entertain the idea.

Likewise, I know from experience how gutted you feel when you crash your car - and to even contemplate going on track without the added insurance means that if I were to only do one track day it could prove expensive.

Had thought of buying one of those Â£200 Golfs so that I could take that on track instead, but then thought what's the point if I want to learn about the TT's handling?

Out of interest - what car have you got now Paul(B not Scott).


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## Neil (May 7, 2002)

Kell said:


> to even contemplate going on track without the added insurance means that if I were to only do one track day it could prove expensive.


Make sure you try Liverpool Victoria next time your insurance is up for renewal - free track day cover included in main policy.

Also, I got AXA to include it last year in my main policy, cos they basically couldn't find any clause in my policy that would EXCLUDE it, so as long as it didn't involve competition etc they wrote to me to say I was covered for track days.


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## paulb (May 6, 2002)

Apparantly LV are about to stop track cover.

Kell, I have a Seat Leon Cupra TDi - off to AmD on Saturday


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

What sort of figures does it produce now and will it produce once it's fettled?


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Most policies are catching up and including the explicit exclusion of track days now. Soon I don't think they'll be any that haven't closed the loop hole.

Reading this thread it seems there are a few keen people however no where near enough for a track day. The last one was short notice but it was free. If you want 6 months notice then you can expect to pay for it.

If you read an earlier post of Clive's you 'll see he said 


> How about a quick straw poll: Who would be prepared to pay (say) Â£150 for a TT(OC or Forum) only track day - bearing in mind if you say yes, you might be asked to put your money where your mouth is!


So far I'd say the response summarises the experience I've had before. 

I should also point out that my lack of enthusiasm to organise another trackday is not just based on the lack of support at the last one. For the last three years many people have professed to wanting to drive the Nurburgring. Every year I have made plans, got costs etc and every year many of those who say they are definate drop out when it comes to putting their money up.

It seems, like it or not, that TT ownership generally does not mean doing track days. The long planned IOM trip is another event where lots seemed keen and then there were virtually no people taking it up.

I'd be over the moon if this post extended with 25 or 30 people all saying they'd put up Â£150 for a track day but I know it won't happen. (There's a challenge for you!!)

p.s. There also seems to be a few people making suggestions about what could be done. Therefore if you've got the ideas why don't YOU? :wink:


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## paulb (May 6, 2002)

Kell said:


> What sort of figures does it produce now and will it produce once it's fettled?


150 now and should be about 185-190 on Saturday


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## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

scoTTy said:


> Reading this thread it seems there are a few keen people however no where near enough for a track day. The last one was short notice but it was free. If you want 6 months notice then you can expect to pay for it.
> :wink:


I agree that you will not get 25-30 people to commit months in advance at Â£150.
I will spend around Â£150 on a track day but not on a date too far ahead.
I wait for a longish range weather forecast and if it looks dry on the day I will book and if itâ€™s sold out I go onto a reserve list if there is one, and if it remains fully booked then so be it; itâ€™s not the last track day ever.
IMO there is too much risk and too little fun on a wet day.

If however through some kind of group buy it becomes much cheaper I will commit far enough in advance and take a chance on the weather and I would hope, so would enough others. It could be the group buy chicken and egg situation; â€œI would be interested if the price was rightâ€ but we donâ€™t always know a price until we know the numbers of those â€˜interestedâ€™.

In this thread I have offered to find out if I can get a reduction on Doningtonâ€™s Â£145 individual price if we got enough people for a group session, but sadly Iâ€™ve had no response at all from members of this forum,
so it doesnâ€™t look like that idea is going to get anywhere. 

Being self employed I could probably go on a bargain track day at short notice during the week, so if there are any out there, I would love to know about them; please please publicise them! :-*


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

I'd say go ahead and ask what the cost for an exclusive booking is and report back. I'm sure they'll tell you that without making you book 

I'm guessing it'll be circa Â£4k.

Clive


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## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

clived said:


> I'd say go ahead and ask what the cost for an exclusive booking is and report back. I'm sure they'll tell you that without making you book
> 
> I'm guessing it'll be circa Â£4k.
> 
> Clive


Will do ...... I hope that you are wrong about Â£4K. but even if it's Â£3K, that's Â£100 for 30 people and judging from what I've (not) read recently on this forum, I'm no longer optimistic that it could happen.


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Fingers crossed


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## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

clived said:


> I'd say go ahead and ask what the cost for an exclusive booking is and report back. I'm sure they'll tell you that without making you book
> 
> I'm guessing it'll be circa Â£4k.


I haven't read all this thread  , but I know that Oulton Park is around Â£6k for the Fosters circuit and nearly double that for Island/Shell.

I can find out more if there's enough interest.

H


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## rolandgttuning (Jan 6, 2004)

Hi Clive,

Thought I would let you know Castle combe charge Â£3100+vat.There is a possiblity that Avon park race track in Hants. maybe available next year our Steve ran the rally school and track days there until the Mod wanted the land back,30 people would have been under Â£50 each.
IMHO (Im learning the lingo) wet is best, you can experiment with understeer,oversteer, four wheel drift with plenty of track width to accommodate error.
4wd and not so favourable power/weight ratio working in the TTs favour compared to say the caterhams and lotus's etc.
ps Crashing is slower in the wet also.


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

Avon at 30x Â£50 would be a possibility as it's also 15 xÂ£100 - I could see us getting 15.... One to look at next year


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## HighTT (Feb 14, 2004)

clived said:


> I'm guessing it'll be circa Â£4k.


You were slightly wrong .... and I was much much more wrongerer  
They want Â£4.5K :evil:


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## t7 (Nov 2, 2002)

All of this makes the Audi Champagne weekend a really good deal if you want an open pit track day (Folembray).... 

Defo thinking of going again in Oct.

btw Kell - I even let my _sister_ drive on the track...! it's only as risky as you make it...

L


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## Stu-Oxfordshire (May 7, 2002)

rolandgttuning said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Personally I think the lack of interest in track days for TTs is maybe that
> people have been brainwashed into believing thier car is inferior (lap times wise) to practicaly everything else on the track and given up,Why? With just a 260 bhp chip and massive front brakes,driven properly theTT is as quick as the Evo, impreza, 911, civic type R, etc.(standard examples).
> ...


Well, I can talk from experience of owning both cars.

Having driven my old TT (now owned by WesTTy) round Castle Combe, Oulton Park and the Nurburgring, it is no match for the Evo.

In corners where the TT was pushing wide, understeering and generally being fat and lardy, the Evo just sticks, plants, and asks for more, and more and more, to the point where you chicken out. In the TT you'd have got out the throttle to get the front end to keep it's axis of turn in way way before.

The Evo was designed around a WRC car, the TT designed around a concept and it will NEVER overcome it's inherent problems (in current guise) of understeer induced by excessive weight and conservative suspension set up. They are different cars so not worth comparing.

This is further exampled by a GT3 RS (at 380bhp there or thereabouts) going quicker round Top Gear's test track than the twin engined, 700bhp TT.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

There will always be quickers car than the one you own. There will always be better handling cars than the one you own. Trackdays are about fun, learning your car and then about having more fun.

It doesn't matter if you've got a 1000cc Mini, a TT, An Evo or an Enzo. You got out to maximise your enjoyment for the day. Comparisons don't come into it as you are driving the car you have and not sitting there saying "I wish I had A.N.other car".

Just get out and enjoy what you've got...or stay at home and put another layer of wax on it. :?


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> Just get out and enjoy what you've got...or stay at home and put another layer of wax on it. :?


Never a truer word spoken. We were at Brands Hatch at the weekend and the Mini racing was just awesome. 3 abreast sideways into Paddock, just glorious to watch and fantastic fun.

Slightly different to plodding round in your TT? No way guys, give it some stick round a track, when the understeer starts, lift, jab the brakes and boot it (TC off), perfect oversteer and a huge grin. Not the fastest way round a track but so much fun


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## rolandgttuning (Jan 6, 2004)

Hi Guys,
I can see we are going to have to do a little demonstration of what a lardy understeery GTT TT can do (light weight TTOC sticker required).Incidently we achieved 1m 23sec last year at C/Combe.Definately well driven Evo 7 territtory.That was with me driving if Steve drives it will be 1-2sec quicker.
You can see the spec on www.gtt.uk.com click "extras",and scroll to "GTT the new bronze age"


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## hutters (Jul 16, 2002)

t7 said:


> btw Kell - I even let my _sister_ drive on the track...! it's only as risky as you make it...
> 
> L


Oh yeah, the _girls only session_. It was like a procession round a supermarket car park, bless her :wink:

To be fair I think all the ladies did rather well


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