# HELP! I've done something legal, illegally! :o(



## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Going into work this morning I approached the end of the M32 and it splits into about 5 lanes. Across the 5 lanes is a Pelican crossing guarded with a 'red light' camera. In my rear view mirror an ambulance appeared about 5-6 cars back, so as the lights were red i had no choice (in my mind) but to carry on through them at the speed I was going (about 25mph), thus setting the camera off. As i went through a chap was crossing stopped to allow me through (I presume because he had seen the ambulance).

Now obviously in a court of law it would be my word against theirs, but how can I explain this if a NPI comes through?!

I really want to keep my license clean, so do I have any leg to stand on? Perhaps i did the wrong thing in the first place by proceeding through red?

What should I do? 

TIA
Kevin


----------



## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

In theory, it should be logged (somewhere) that the ambulance was on a shout.
I'm guessing it went through the red light too?

Again - in theory - it should be possible to link that to your photo - assuming the NIP does appear :?


----------



## andy761 (Jul 27, 2003)

Chances are they will not take it into consideration at all........ sad and wrong i know! Always worth begging though!


----------



## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Don't I Recognise You? said:


> In theory, it should be logged (somewhere) that the ambulance was on a shout.


That's if it was on a shout and not just using the 'blues 'n twos' to get through the traffic, like i commonly see in Bristol City Centre during the rush hours.



> I'm guessing it went through the red light too?


I went through a few seconds before it changed to amber flash, so the ambulance would have gone thorugh amber flash or green by the time it had got there. 



> Again - in theory - it should be possible to link that to your photo - assuming the NIP does appear :?


It was two slow flashes(normally indicating it's live) and it's a camera that is notorius for being 'loaded'.


----------



## richard_tricky (Jul 24, 2002)

you will be fine...... log the time and date and make a small diagram of what happend and where the ambulance was. we had the same situation in one of our works vans and the guy got off free.

you might also want to contact the local police station for advice and also contact the the avon ambulance service. they should supply info on the ambulance. just in case it goes to court


----------



## Kell (May 28, 2002)

YEah - might be one time where it's better to be pro-active than reactive. Tell them the resons why before they contact you... :?


----------



## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

I emailed the Avon & Somerset Const as soon as i got into work explaining the situation and asking for their advice. They replied at about 9.30 (the incident happened at 7.15) saying they had passed my query on to the Safety Camera Partnership that run the cam, but i've heard nothing back.

:?


----------



## andy761 (Jul 27, 2003)

I guess it varies from force to force........ i know of forces where exactly the same thing happend and they still gave points. If i remember it made the press??


----------



## m4ttc (May 6, 2002)

> That's if it was on a shout and not just using the 'blues 'n twos' to get through the traffic, like i commonly see in Bristol City Centre during the rush hours


Or even worse, Casualty were filming at the time :wink: [/quote]


----------



## jonah (Aug 17, 2002)

The Ambulance crew are in the same boat as you, going through a red light is illigall whether they were on a shout or not, all depends on how the people that be decide.
Jonah


----------



## L8_0RGY (Sep 12, 2003)

I've no idea how you would prove it, but you have done the right thing at the wrong time.

This surely must be the oldest excuse in the book though!


----------



## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

Just give yourself up now... head straight to the localk prison and ask to be let in... it'll save a lot of hassle :wink:

Seriously... you should be OK, but if there was 5 lanes, why not pull up infront of one of the other 4 lanes?? Where did the other cars go? there must have been at least another 4 cars there.


----------



## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

May be a camera phone would be useful in this situation so you could have photographic evidence in your favour of the Ambulance?


----------



## Private Prozac (Jul 7, 2003)

mighTy Tee said:


> May be a camera phone would be useful in this situation so you could have photographic evidence in your favour of the Ambulance?


Yeah, good idea. They'd let him off for going through the lights........and nick him for using his phone whilst driving! :lol:


----------



## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

I had a phone call from the SCU this morning, thanking me for my message, to garther further details and to let me know they will be retrieving the film from the camera tommorow.

She was pleasant enough and said she would call me tommorow when she has studied the film. :?


----------



## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

Maybe the pedestrian stopped because he thought you were going to run him over ? Don't suppose you got his details as a Witness ?


----------



## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

I would be very surprised if the police uses resources to contact the ambulance service to prove your innocense.

Normally it is not allowed to jumb a red light to allow them past. What you must do is pull to the left or right or the pavement to let them past.


----------



## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

Most cars don't move sideways. :?


----------



## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> Most cars don't move sideways. :?


You mean you have never moved your car sideways when going fast?


----------



## AvusLee (Jun 12, 2004)

jonah said:


> The Ambulance crew are in the same boat as you, going through a red light is illigall whether they were on a shout or not, all depends on how the people that be decide.
> Jonah


Wrong.
The law states that we can treat red lights the same as a give way sign "PROVIDING it is SAFE to do so". 
We can still be held accountable for accidents leading from us doing so, but it is NOT illegal. If it were no emergency service personnel would risk their licence for the sake of an emergency call.

KMPPowell. I'd say you have nothing to worry about in regards to jumping the light. As everyone has stated it is easy to prove you jumped the light to allow easy passage of the Ambo. The feds would just contact the local ambo CAC to access their archives to retrieve the relevant details of the call. There is potential bad news though. All this we have stated is only relevant PROVIDING it was an NHS ambulance (ie a proper ambulance). I know to the untrained eye most ambos all look alike but there are St Johns,Red cross and a whole load of other wonky wannabe firms who love a bit of yellow & green battenburg over a knackered old Renault Master fitted with a scanner. These private firms are not permitted to 'Run' on blues and if seen by the police or caught by traffic signal cameras ARE prosecuted.
Wouldnt lose any sleep over it though fella.


----------



## stgeorgex997 (Feb 25, 2004)

All emergency service crews on a call may treat Red lights as Give way, as AvusLee said they don't even technically have to have their blue lights on to do this but they have to justify if it became an issue. It is outrageous to suggest that an emergency service crew would be prosecuted for going through a red light UNLESS an incident occurred as a result :?


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

stgeorgex997 said:


> All emergency service crews on a call may treat Red lights as Give way, as AvusLee said they don't even technically have to have their blue lights on to do this but they have to justify if it became an issue. It is outrageous to suggest that an emergency service crew would be prosecuted for going through a red light UNLESS an incident occurred as a result :?


Why is it outrageous? What you're suggesting is that it's perfectly fine for a crew to cross a red light because, lets say, they are late home for their tea, so long as an accident didn't occur. Surely the point would be to prevent and accident in the first place by setting the rule, not using it to prosecute if an accident occurs.


----------



## AvusLee (Jun 12, 2004)

clived said:


> stgeorgex997 said:
> 
> 
> > All emergency service crews on a call may treat Red lights as Give way, as AvusLee said they don't even technically have to have their blue lights on to do this but they have to justify if it became an issue. It is outrageous to suggest that an emergency service crew would be prosecuted for going through a red light UNLESS an incident occurred as a result :?
> ...


Right. Lets dismiss the rumours and clear this up.
Emergency crews can only treat Red Lights as 'give way' _when_ on an emergency call. This is blue lights and if neccesary, sirens. 
They _can'not_ use them to get off duty on time, get to Starbucks before they close or anything else you may have seen on these sh*t emergency dramas on telly. :x 
No emergency crew in their right mind would cross red lights blue light or otherwise if NOT on an emergency call. If a crew caused an accident doing so which then proved they was'nt on a call they would feel the full weight of the law cr*p on them from a great height with no legal backing from their service ....and rightly so. No license no job....simple as. 
From my point of view its just not worth it.


----------



## stgeorgex997 (Feb 25, 2004)

No Clive, you're splitting hairs, for that reason it would be an abuse, but, for Police for example, if they saw a car that they wanted to stop they are permitted to go through a red light without using their emergency equipment if safe to do so.

This may be different for the AS and FB but is the case for Police, 99% of the time it would be prudent to use the 'blues and twos' but on occasion covert operations and the like then the use of siren and lights would not be used and the Police are entitled to still go through a red light.

I've looked this up and it is different for Ambulance and fire crews. Police are exempt for 'Police purposes' which can mean almost anything but at no stage on the legislation _Regulation 33(1)(b) Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 1994_ does it say that emergency equipment needs to be on!

AvusLee you will probably find that it is service policy that you do...


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Kev,

I go through those lights most evenings. I have been flashed once myself 2 years ago undersimilar circumstances. No NPI ever arrived. Plus just did a quick straw poll by coffee machine for other Bristolians on site who also use that route. One other chap has been flashed there too this year on same pelican crossing. No NPI.

A pre-emptive letter should cover yer arse OK.


----------



## clived (May 6, 2002)

stgeorgex997 said:


> No Clive, you're splitting hairs


You're quite right. I didn't link what you said at the start of your post ("All emergency service crews on a call") with the rest of it


----------



## garyc (May 7, 2002)

clived said:


> stgeorgex997 said:
> 
> 
> > No Clive, you're splitting hairs
> ...


Where KMP describes is 3 minutes from the BRI Hospital, so emergency traffic is frequent.


----------



## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> Kev,
> 
> I go through those lights most evenings. I have been flashed once myself 2 years ago undersimilar circumstances. No NPI ever arrived. Plus just did a quick straw poll by coffee machine for other Bristolians on site who also use that route. One other chap has been flashed there too this year on same pelican crossing. No NPI.
> 
> A pre-emptive letter should cover yer arse OK.


Thanks Gary, that's reassuring, fingers x'd. 

I left another message for the SCP woman to calll me today, but still nothing from them. I have yet to have anything in the post either. When the woman at the SCP rang me last wednesday she said that they would get the film from the camera on the thursday, so im guessing that it should arrive at the start of this week if it's going to arrive at all.


----------



## NormStrm (Sep 6, 2003)

Kev

What was the outcome of passing the red light even with the ambulance in pursuit ? As I read in the week that a guy had been done for passing a red light when an ambulance with blues & two's was approaching from behind him.

Norman


----------



## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Well 8 months later and my court date is upon me. Tommorow (Monday) i'm off to court to defend my mitigating circumstances.

God knows whats going to happen, but i shall let you know.


----------



## NormStrm (Sep 6, 2003)

kmpowell said:


> Well 8 months later and my court date is upon me. Tommorow (Monday) i'm off to court to defend my mitigating circumstances.
> 
> God knows whats going to happen, but i shall let you know.


Kev

Now that is spooky, I wish you well.

Norman


----------



## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Went to court this morning, and the judge heard all my mitigating circumstances. He ajourned(sic) the court and came back to tell me that all charges had been dropped and i was free to go! 

What a relief! I had alread priced up the extra points etc onto the Trevor and it would have cost me an extra Â£200 a year for a TS10 offence!


----------



## Jazzedout (May 8, 2002)

[smiley=mexicanwave.gif]


----------



## R6B TT (Feb 25, 2003)

Good news Kev - shame they wasted the money taking you to court!


----------



## justinp (May 7, 2002)

Great news, its not very often you hear about a good result from our legal system when it comes to the motorist.

JustinP


----------



## dee (Jun 3, 2005)

so, you pre-advised of mitigating circumstances... you provided all details, and yet you had to endure 8months of worry, take time off to go to court etc, court time, and they let you off... I would claim for expenses and waste of your time!

I'm glad you got off though


----------



## NaughTTy (Jul 9, 2003)

Great news Kev 8)


----------



## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Well done fella. Glad the outcome was a goodun


----------



## raven (May 7, 2002)

Good news, but like others have said, what a waste of your time, the court's time and the judge's time. How does this sort of thing happen?


----------



## NormStrm (Sep 6, 2003)

Great news Kev 

Pity a bit more common sense couldn't be used as part of the red light camera process to save everyone the hassle and cost.

Norman


----------



## nellsey (Nov 16, 2004)

Great news, its a f****ing disgrace that it got to court anyway!

its not often the motorist wins


----------



## jgray (May 8, 2002)

Just goes to sum up the problems with the law in general these days. I guess at the end of the day the cost of the court case comes out of the public purse rather than the police camera/piggy bank.

All was need was a common sense decision in the first place.

Glad it went the right way for you.


----------



## dee (Jun 3, 2005)

jgray... you've got a bad case of subsidence there mate!


----------



## TTotal (Aug 12, 2002)

Well done Kev, thats a relief PHEW ! 8)


----------



## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

nice one it must have been your lucky day standing before the only judge in england with a bit of common sense


----------



## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

result 

nice one Kev


----------

