# Cannot Get Rid of Shake



## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

I'm literally on the verge of petrol bombing this f**king car.

Did a long journey to visit family y'day and back home today, mainly m'way but also fast deserted B roads. The wheels were brand new when I bought the car and I've had untold woe with balance weights dropping off them. Had yet another wheel rebalanced the other day and alignment checked.

The heap shakes like crazy at 90mph to 110mph INTERMITENTLY. For example, on a motorway shake shake shake at aforementioned speeds, then on a B road silky smooth at 80mph!!!

Pardon my temper, but WTAF???!!! Is the the fact of 19" rims and a short wheelbase? Or, is there something majorly wrong somewhere? Could this be another utterly retarded Audi electrical prob?

This car has my heart broke, absolutely everything is a struggle and I've never experienced the likes of it in driving performance orientated cars in 25yrs.

The car is immaculate, handles like it's on rails, it has fresh brake discs and all round new calipers. I've done the brake work and the track rods etc all are in good condition.

Any ideas so as I can set it straight and just sell it on? I literally hate the thing now.


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## IPG3.6 (Sep 5, 2015)

oh dear :/

Seems like you've looked at most of the obvious things (including all the other recommendations from the other thread). Apart from taking it to a suspension specialist... i'm not sure what else...


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

Do you have Haldex AWD? I'm wondering if the rubber flex disks in the prop shaft are going south as they can lead to vibration, especially under load.

From another Audi TT forum post -

_"This was the condition of my front flex disc on the F/R drive shaft. It's pretty bad. It all started with shearing a bolt on the rear of the drive shaft to haldex mount that caused a severe vibration that started about 60mph and was more noticeable and heavy with load/speed."_

Here's an older Forum post on the prop shaft issue -

*Rear prop shaft seal splitting?*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 9&t=962729

Meyle YouTube on replacement -

*Changing center bearing, flex disc and vibration damper on a cardan shaft*






















Reference - https://forums.quattroworld.com/tt2/threads/4102.phtml


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, If you've had weights dropping off, perhaps they have come off again.
Weights coming adrift is just down to the surface not being perfectly clean. Take it somewhere else & explain the problem.
Do you have spacers fitted & if so are they hub-centric?
Hoggy.


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

Thanks for replies.

Checked weights, all still on. No halidex as its FWD.

So frustrating as it really is such a great looking car and goes like stink but the niggles are ruining it. In one of tyre places I went to the young lad is a bit of a petrol head and told me the alignment is bang on, he didn't even have to do that. Have used 3 diff places now, at this stage.

I can't understand how it'd behave smoothly on what would be considered a lower standard B road v a m'way. Could it be spring/shock or rack orientated, in anyone's experience? I'd expect slight vibes given the rim size and tyres but this is very excessive and ruins the drive.


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## IPG3.6 (Sep 5, 2015)

Hoggy said:


> Do you have spacers fitted & if so are they hub-centric?
> Hoggy.


I think Ruffles would be able to replicate the vibration each and every time if there were non hub centric spacers causing it.


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## piti (Oct 10, 2018)

Hey,

also had "some" vibration issues with mine. Had my wheels rebalanced once on a regular balancing machine with very limited success. Went then to a bigger shop that has a Hunter road-force balancing machine, which finally got rid of most of the vibrations. But it turned out that the tyres couldn't be balanced perfectly, probably due to some manufactoring variances or bad storage or so (Micheline PS4S on new original Audi wheels btw. grml..).
No chance finding that with a standard balancing machine.

Vibrations were slightly worse again this year and car started to develop slight brake wobble with the PS4S, changed to winter tyres, even more vibrations. Had them balanced on the road-force machine again and now it's perfect + brake wobble is gone as well.

TT really is a diva when it comes to vibrations.

Peter


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## Flashy (Nov 8, 2019)

Buckled wheel?


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

I caught this video on the DAP YouTube channel where they are building a RWD GTI. During the discussion of the rear suspension they introduced new trailing arms with much stiffer bushings. I don't know if this could be part of the shake you're trying to identify but I had no idea the OEMs bushings could move as much as they demonstrated.

*RWD GTI | Pt 2*
Timestamp - 4:32





I also found this Self Study Program (_SSP 961403 Noise, Vibration and Harshness_) which may give you some better ideas of what the problem might be. I've attached it here and have added to the list of WSMs and SSPs in the KB.

View attachment SSP 961403 Noise, Vibration and Harshness.pdf


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

Never knew about these non-alignment problems related to vibration; tire runout and force variation. Can your alignment shop perform these tests?

*Wheel Balancing: Why Do My Balanced Wheels Still Shake?*





*How to Road-Force Balance a Tire*


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## TT4LEE (Mar 8, 2015)

Might be the tire itself. I bought my car used, did all the balancing things you did, still had vibration at high speed (120kph+). I partially solved it by moving the front wheels (rims/tire combo) to the rear. This worked for me, likely less sensitive having the out of round tire on the rear. My winter tires have no issues at all. So I put it down to damaged tire belts from someone hitting a pot hole hard.


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

I found a couple of YouTube videos that shows how you can check your own tires to see if they're out of round or not. Simple enough to do, might be worth looking into -

*Out of Round Tire Increases Road Force*





*Out of round tire?*


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

Thks for the replies.

Def not a buckled wheel as they were brand new and I'm the only person to have driven them, haven't hit any potholes or kerbs.

The tyres were also brand new and only have 6K miles on them, I did notice a few days later that the red dots on the tyres weren't inline with the valves but unsure if this makes a huge difference considering the wheels have been balanced????

I'm going to try swapping rears to the front, if the recent pissy weather would ever bugger off!

I do see from internet searches that these seem to be very sensitive cars as far as the chassis is concerned. As I said, it handles like it's on rails so doubtful anything is amiss re bushes etc.


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

Hoggy said:


> Hi, If you've had weights dropping off, perhaps they have come off again.
> Weights coming adrift is just down to the surface not being perfectly clean. Take it somewhere else & explain the problem.
> Do you have spacers fitted & if so are they hub-centric?
> Hoggy.


Yes there are spacers fitted but they never caused this issue before? They're red in colour, there's no make or anything stamped on them.


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## IPG3.6 (Sep 5, 2015)

Are the spacers hub centric?

This is most likely your issue. I fitted non hubcentric spacers (although advertised as hubcentric) and got a wobble at high speed. Ended up tossing them for the Neuspeed wheels.

This pic shows one with a lip (hubcentric) and one that has no lip (slip on). The slip on's are known to cause vibration issues at high speed. They simply won't allow your wheel to mount centrally on the hub.









I think remove them before you start switching rear for front wheels. Hope this is the case for you as it's a simple fix.


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## Barr_end (Oct 19, 2016)

If the wheels have been 100% ruled out, as have the tyres.
I'd agree with Ian above, especially as you say they are unbranded.
Can you run without the spacers, are they there for look, or do the wheels you have need it for brake clearance?

If you can remove them, front and rear if it has them and then try it, you'll probably fix it just on that.
If not, remove the front discs and make sure the hub face, rear and front of the disc mounting surface is perfectly clean and smooth.

If you get this far, it's the wheel bearings. Have had 2 TFSI/MQ35 cars which this issue now, and both times, eventually found it was the wheel bearings causing fault


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## Mrpunch (Oct 6, 2016)

For what it's worth I had very similar problems as you on my Tdi Quattro after several tyre changes and alignments it was actually a cracked spring o/s Front found by pure chance I replaced both and the car was perfect and I was also ready to set it on fire :lol:


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## bonilla (Oct 30, 2020)

I've had a similar problem that came out just after I had the front wheels taken off for maintenance. The car started to shake during soft accelerations above 50 km/h. I went to a tire shop and they found some movement between the spacer and the wheel so they suggested me to try removing them. I have ordered shorter bolts to do that, in the meanwhile it seems that just taking off the tires and putting them back on reduced the shake.


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

I've no idea about the spacers, I'm assuming they were fitted for a good reason? Can't see how they'd suddenly become a problem after a year?

Getting it booked in to fix a lean at idle fault p1287 so will ask mech to check all the handling system. Car is taking it's time to drop revs from 1200 to normal idle when slowing to a stop in traffic throwing p0507 also.

Just never ends with this car, cannot wait to get shot of it, problem is I'll have spent a fortune over the past year just for some other sod to end up enjoying, also have a forking ABS unit to replace.

Truly the absolute worst car I've ever owned, they are complete garbage


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

IPG3.6 said:


> Are the spacers hub centric?
> 
> This is most likely your issue. I fitted non hubcentric spacers (although advertised as hubcentric) and got a wobble at high speed. Ended up tossing them for the Neuspeed wheels.
> 
> ...


Mine are def hub centric, gradual lip on them mate. Going to check they're all actually on, in case a fitter knocked one off by mistake


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## IPG3.6 (Sep 5, 2015)

If they don't need to be on there (for example if you are running regular brakes VS big brakes where one might need the clearance). Remove all four spacers to absolutely rule them out.

So sorry to hear of your bad experience and Happy New Year. Hope you can get things swiftly sorted.


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

IPG3.6 said:


> If they don't need to be on there (for example if you are running regular brakes VS big brakes where one might need the clearance). Remove all four spacers to absolutely rule them out.
> 
> So sorry to hear of your bad experience and Happy New Year. Hope you can get things swiftly sorted.


Happy NYE to you also mate. I thought the spacers were on due to the alloys prob being aftermarket copies and requiring them to fit properly? I'm giving it one more chance after I shell out again, to sort current issues, if it even revs out of place it's going! :?


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## bonilla (Oct 30, 2020)

No luck with spacers removal, the shake is still there. However, I can't really tell the difference in the look of the car with or without the spacers, so I'll keep them off to restore the design geometry.

Next suspects would be cv axles and porpshaft joints. Apparently front cv axles are pretty fixed with no noticeable play, so I'll have the car lifted soon to give it a closer look.


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

bonilla said:


> No luck with spacers removal, the shake is still there. However, I can't really tell the difference in the look of the car with or without the spacers, so I'll keep them off to restore the design geometry.
> 
> Next suspects would be cv axles and porpshaft joints. Apparently front cv axles are pretty fixed with no noticeable play, so I'll have the car lifted soon to give it a closer look.


Yeah I didn't even bother taking mine off, they aren't suddenly going to cause problems, I'll let the mechanic fight with it.


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## bonilla (Oct 30, 2020)

Most likely my problem is with one of the front CV axles.

I was able to read the part numbers (front right: 8J0407272Q and front left:8J0407271Q).

Would any 8J0407272# and 8J0407271# part numbers be ok, or should I pay attention to the final letter too?


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## cupra_matt (Jul 31, 2019)

Replace both front outer CV joints.


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## bonilla (Oct 30, 2020)

cupra_matt said:


> Replace both front outer CV joints.


Thanks! I was thinking about replacing the whole cv axles, would outer joints suffice?

Also, the swap of the entire joint would be much easier. Are the inner joints less subject to failure than outer ones? Just asking in case bad outer joints might be a warning of a shortcoming failure of inner ones.

PS any hint about part number final letter?


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## bonilla (Oct 30, 2020)

Mechanic just said he believes inner cv joints are the problem. Waiting for a quote.


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## cupra_matt (Jul 31, 2019)

bonilla said:


> cupra_matt said:
> 
> 
> > Replace both front outer CV joints.
> ...


I'm fitting outer CV joints to mine tomorrow so I will let you know if it fixes it.

Inner CV joints appear to be a dealer only part.


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## cupra_matt (Jul 31, 2019)

bonilla said:


> Mechanic just said he believes inner cv joints are the problem. Waiting for a quote.


I'm not convinced the inner joints would cause the steering shake I get.

I will know more tomorrow.


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

This is doing my nut, again completely smooth on an empty B road, no shake at all then........on the m'way it has that shitty unbalanced-like shake again :?: :?: :?:


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## cupra_matt (Jul 31, 2019)

Rufflesj said:


> This is doing my nut, again completely smooth on an empty B road, no shake at all then........on the m'way it has that shitty unbalanced-like shake again :?: :?: :?:


Ive replaced my outer CV joints today and gave it a quick run up to the desired speeds and all seems smooth.
I will know for sure tomorrow on my way to work, but so far so good.


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## BlackTipReefShark (Jun 1, 2016)

they are poxy cars

there is always, always some thing niggly that needs fixing, hence the popularity of this forum,

stick with it, its something mechanical and so can be fixed, just a bastard working it out

when they are behaving they are worth the grief


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## cupra_matt (Jul 31, 2019)

Well, the CV joints have sorted it. I bought Febi joints which appear to be really nice quality. There was nothing obviously wrong with the old ones, although the N/S CV joint took 6 tonnes of pressure and the shock of a hammer to free it from the hub.


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

BlackTipReefShark said:


> they are poxy cars
> 
> there is always, always some thing niggly that needs fixing, hence the popularity of this forum,
> 
> ...


Tell me about it, been trying to find a f**king ABS serial code for two days now, and no,.......nobody knows. What the actual F?! Can't even determine what the hell part fits, 100 different versions of everything on these sh*t boxes.

16mths ownership and only about 2wks of no fault codes in that period, think I might end up going back to Italian motors, this is by far the single most awful car I've ever owned.


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## bonilla (Oct 30, 2020)

cupra_matt said:


> Well, the CV joints have sorted it. I bought Febi joints which appear to be really nice quality. There was nothing obviously wrong with the old ones, although the N/S CV joint took 6 tonnes of pressure and the shock of a hammer to free it from the hub.


Good to hear that! So you changed the outer joints only, is that right?
Just wandering why my mechanic said "99% the inner joints are the problem".
Based to his quote, I might install new aftermarket axles with the same price. Will have a better look at Febi, I am getting lost with all the aftermarket brands.


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

cupra_matt said:


> Well, the CV joints have sorted it. I bought Febi joints which appear to be really nice quality. There was nothing obviously wrong with the old ones, although the N/S CV joint took 6 tonnes of pressure and the shock of a hammer to free it from the hub.


How much did it sting you in the end?

Can I ask what size rims you're running? I'm on 19s and wondering is it just a consequence of big wheels on motorway surfaces, it behaves on B roads over the same speed range???? Very weird.


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## cupra_matt (Jul 31, 2019)

bonilla said:


> cupra_matt said:
> 
> 
> > Well, the CV joints have sorted it. I bought Febi joints which appear to be really nice quality. There was nothing obviously wrong with the old ones, although the N/S CV joint took 6 tonnes of pressure and the shock of a hammer to free it from the hub.
> ...


Yeah just the outer CV joints. They cost £40 ish each, i bought them through AutoDoc. Febi Bilstein 109402


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

cupra_matt said:


> bonilla said:
> 
> 
> > cupra_matt said:
> ...


Cheers, I'll look into that. Can they still go to pot without any tale tell split boots etc?


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## bonilla (Oct 30, 2020)

Right inner CV joint was definitely the problem (video).

I went through many videos and tutorials before attempting to remove them, and many say some play is normal. So I thought what I was feeling with the axle on was normal too. I don't really know if this a peculiarity of such axles, but the other three good joints are perfectly firm. Just in case this might help!


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## cupra_matt (Jul 31, 2019)

bonilla said:


> Right inner CV joint was definitely the problem (video).
> 
> I went through many videos and tutorials before attempting to remove them, and many say some play is normal. So I thought what I was feeling with the axle on was normal too. I don't really know if this a peculiarity of such axles, but the other three good joints are perfectly firm. Just in case this might help!


Did this sort your issue?


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

Forgot to update this. Whilst working on brake bleeding I swapped rear wheels to front and was on the m'way today, the shake has subsided by approx 90% so obv one of the tyres still is not correctly balanced.

I rem getting home last year after having the tyres fitted and noticed that the valves hadn't been lined up with the red dots on the tyre, could this have been the problem or do fitters account for that in some way?


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## piti (Oct 10, 2018)

Don't think that's a problem. A careful tyrefitter will rotate the tyre on the rim if it would require too many weights to balance it. But depending on how the wheels were balanced he may not be able to get it balanced perfectly. For that one would require a machine that simulates the road force on the tyre.
https://www.hunter.com/en-int/wheel-bal ... rce-elite/


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## Tditt (Dec 9, 2019)

@Rufflesj, this could be your issue. I had new tyres fitted and like you I and had motorway vibration afterwards.
I also noticed that the heavy point dots were not aligned to the valves so I went back to the fitter to have them rebalanced. When I told them that the dots weren't aligned and they said that the dots don't mean anything and its just a stamp that is put on when they are manufactured. Needless to say I took my car elsewhere and got them refitted properly. No more shaking!!
Some tyre shops are completely incompetent. I hope this helps and you get it sorted mate.


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

Tditt said:


> @Rufflesj, this could be your issue. I had new tyres fitted and like you I and had motorway vibration afterwards.
> I also noticed that the heavy point dots were not aligned to the valves so I went back to the fitter to have them rebalanced. When I told them that the dots weren't aligned and they said that the dots don't mean anything and its just a stamp that is put on when they are manufactured. Needless to say I took my car elsewhere and got them refitted properly. No more shaking!!
> Some tyre shops are completely incompetent. I hope this helps and you get it sorted mate.


Cheers. Yeah that's what I was thinking, the dots aren't there for decoration like, there for a reason! Some tyre fitting places are a joke, they'll try to tell you any old BS and that they're doing you some sort of massive favour and going out of their way by doing what they're paid to do :roll:


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

Wow - they say you learn something new every day and I had never heard of this before! I'm due for a new set myself so it will be a point of discussion with my tire guy. Thanks!!

Source - https://www.toyotires.com.au/news/seeing-spots

*YELLOW DOT* - The yellow dot indicates the lightest part of the tyre sidewall. On a wheel or rim, the heaviest part is generally the valve stem. During fitting the yellow dot is aligned with the valve stem of the wheel. Having the dot and valve stem in alignment means technicians won't need to use as many balancing weights.

*RED DOT* - The red dot follows the same concept as yellow, but it's a little more complex. Applying to original equipment (the wheels and tyres the factory fitted your car with) the red dot indicates the radial force variation (RFV) high point of the tyre.


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## Rufflesj (Jun 22, 2020)

Yeah it's def a thing mate, only came across it myself a few years back!


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