# Review : MR vs Non-MR, Manual vs S-tronic



## Jimbo2 (Nov 30, 2006)

For those that are interested, I was in the lucky position recently where I was able to test drive a pair of Mk2 3.2 TTCs which were almost identical - except that one had S-Tronic and MR, the other was Manual with standard suspension.

Well, in my opinion, there IS a definite difference between MR in Comfort mode and Standard suspension.

Comfort is (subjectively) more comfortable than standard, and when driven hard around the same roundabout I found MR (still in comfort mode) did a better job of keeping all four corners down than the standard did. Of course, MR in sport mode was better still, although I felt more in control in Comfort mode when cornering hard. It was also easier to get the TC light to flash with the standard setup...

I think it is safe to say that the standard suspension is a nice compromise between the two MR settings. You can tell where the money is going when you spec MR and I think if anyone is two minds about it, they should go for it.

On to the gearbox... I've already ordered S-tronic and I think that's the best choice for me .. BUT ... in the 3.2... the manual 'box adds SO much to the driving experience. I found myself keeping it one gear too low just to hear the sweet sound of the V6 ! I know you can drive DSG with the paddles, but you soon get bored and pop it back into D. Not so with a manual 'box, where you HAVE to be involved, and you get rewarded by feedback through the clutch, the amazing sound and (when you get it ~just~ right) the performance.

It's not the best 'box in the world, and short shift would probably improve it, but if I was buying a 3.2 for anything other than a daily commute where the average speed is <20mph, I would spec manual.

This is all my opinion and of course is very subjective, but hopefully it will help somebody... of course now it's going to be even harder to wait until March..


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## AidenL (Nov 29, 2006)

Thanks for that - I was thinking of adding MR, already had S-tronic specced, now you have me thinking of ditching S-tronic for manual and getting MR :?  :lol:


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Dont forget DSG is faster 0-60 :wink:


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## John C (Jul 5, 2002)

Nice simple write up Jimbo - thanks for taking the time.


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## AidenL (Nov 29, 2006)

Toshiba said:


> Dont forget DSG is faster 0-60 :wink:


True, true 8)


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## TTRTWO (Dec 9, 2006)

Toshiba said:


> Dont forget DSG is faster 0-60 :wink:


Wonderful. I will sleep better tonight remembering that.


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## TTRTWO (Dec 9, 2006)

Jimbo2 said:


> For those that are interested, I was in the lucky position recently where I was able to test drive a pair of Mk2 3.2 TTCs which were almost identical - except that one had S-Tronic and MR, the other was Manual with standard suspension.
> 
> Well, in my opinion, there IS a definite difference between MR in Comfort mode and Standard suspension.
> 
> ...


Well written - thank you.

I'm expecting a manual MR 3.2 TTR in the Spring.


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## europameister (Jun 4, 2006)

Toshiba said:


> Dont forget DSG is faster 0-60 :wink:[/quote
> 
> How often do you do that? :roll:


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

europameister said:


> Toshiba said:
> 
> 
> > Dont forget DSG is faster 0-60 :wink:[/quote
> ...


 :wink: But remember - it is quicker in any situations where you need to change gear....


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Every time i go from 0-60.

All down to what you want/prefer. I can't wait to get rid of my manual 3.2 for a DSG 3.2 fed up of the jerky gearbox (1st to 2nd). I do like the height of the stick in the new car compared to the old one - feels sporty.


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## Crazydave (Jan 4, 2007)

John C said:


> Nice simple write up Jimbo - thanks for taking the time.


I'd like to second that, thanks!


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

Crazydave said:


> John C said:
> 
> 
> > Nice simple write up Jimbo - thanks for taking the time.
> ...


Me too, cheers Jimbo.



Toshiba said:


> Every time i go from 0-60.


 :lol: :lol:

The two best reasons for S-tronic are in this thread - lots of urban crawling / driving, and clunky manual gearboxes, where the change from 1-2 is slow / clunky / sticky. When you are driving in slow moving traffic and constantly changing 1st / 2nd / stop / 1st / 2nd then the box spoils your enjoyment of the car.


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Wondermikie said:


> Crazydave said:
> 
> 
> > John C said:
> ...


Another reason.......the awasome sound from the exhaust when the DSG is changing gear's.

Mwoaappppp.........Banggg !!!.........Mwoaappppp.......Bangggg!!.........Mwoaaapppp........Bangggg ! :wink: 
i'm addicted to that sound


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Rebel said:


> Mwoaappppp.........Banggg !!!.........Mwoaappppp.......Bangggg!!.........Mwoaaapppp........Bangggg ! :wink:
> i'm addicted to that sound


What is it in english?


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## QuackingPlums (Mar 10, 2004)

Rebel said:


> Another reason.......the awasome sound from the exhaust when the DSG is changing gear's.
> 
> Mwoaappppp.........Banggg !!!.........Mwoaappppp.......Bangggg!!.........Mwoaaapppp........Bangggg ! :wink:
> i'm addicted to that sound


I think our binmen make that noise in the mornings! :lol:  :lol:


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## Philr (Oct 10, 2006)

I have been told by the stealer that manual boxes are designed to be nothcy for a 'sporty' feel !!


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Toshiba said:


> Rebel said:
> 
> 
> > Mwoaappppp.........Banggg !!!.........Mwoaappppp.......Bangggg!!.........Mwoaaapppp........Bangggg ! :wink:
> ...


In english:

Mwoaapppp.....Banggg.......Mwoaaappp......Bangggg.... " oops, hello officer, can i help you" ....Officer: " Can i see your driver license, please" ........"there's a speed limit on this road, this ain't germany"
"But officer, this is a TT with DSG , you can't drive it slowly"

And than you drive home some pounds lighter: .......vroammmm...pufff.......vroaammm...pufff....

Tosh i told you so, you live on the wrong side of the chunnel......all the fun happen's on the mainland over here


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

I've been banned from mainland Europe.


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

That' because they cought you while you where driving on the wrong side of the road.....after you drunk 15 beer's and with 3 blondine's in you car?


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

yep - but the car wasnt mine. I stole it.


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

:lol: :lol:


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## CraigyTT (Oct 19, 2006)

Toshiba said:


> Dont forget DSG is faster 0-60 :wink:


Funnily enough, on recent versions of the DSG firmware that may not in fact be true. VW south africa had a pair of identical golfs available for 0-60 testing (one DSG and one manual). The DSG box wasn't allowing much clutch slip/revs from a standing start, so in fact the manual car toasted it on every run because the drivers were able to sideslip the clutch at 5000rpm and get a headstart that even DSG's fast changes wasnt able to compete with.

I'd like to see actual real numbers (not from VW) from RECENT cars to prove that DSG's still faster form a standing start.

C


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Where did they these test?

In south africa????

:lol:

Is that a joke? because it makes me laugh, nice humor :wink:


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## CraigyTT (Oct 19, 2006)

Rebel said:


> Where did they these test?
> 
> In south africa????
> 
> ...


It's not a joke, no. Here's the link to the article:
http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fSe ... Id=2470517

As I said I'd like to see it *proven* that the DSG's faster, because here's a bunch of peopl who tried it and found that the DSG has problems with actual sporty driving.

C


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Indeed craig there it is written.

But these movies are also availble on Your Tube. 2 year's ago they were also on several forum's. I remember some comment's on this test, but i won't argue with you because i can't find them so easily.

Toshiba...maybe you better keep the manual and cancel the other car?


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

But this is from april 2005. And as many have said - the "old" DSG did suffer from a "lag" from still stand and/or low speed/rpm.

As i have understood the "new DSG" has been modified (software ++?), and is therefore now called S-tronic.

I might be wrong though? Anyone who has some more information about this?


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## CraigyTT (Oct 19, 2006)

Arne said:


> But this is from april 2005. And as many have said - the "old" DSG did suffer from a "lag" from still stand and/or low speed/rpm.
> 
> As i have understood the "new DSG" has been modified (software ++?), and is therefore now called S-tronic.
> 
> I might be wrong though? Anyone who has some more information about this?


S-tronic is a marketing inventio, as is DSG. The box is n't even from VAG - it's made by borg warner, based on their own technology. VAG just happen to be the biggest customer.

One of the reasons I ask about this is that both the 3.2TT I had and the golf GTi I tested (both for 3 days) had this problem. And that was in October 2006.

C


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

CraigyTT said:


> Arne said:
> 
> 
> > But this is from april 2005. And as many have said - the "old" DSG did suffer from a "lag" from still stand and/or low speed/rpm.
> ...


You may be right in this, but so may I - and both of us :wink:

I have heard/read somewhere, that there has been done modifications on the S-tronic gearbox - but I can't remember where. And one of the reasons was to get rid of just the "lag".

It would be very interesting to hear what others have of information about this - even though I am sure this "problem" is just details, with no real practical consequence.

I mean - how often do you rew your car to 5.000 rpm at stillstand, and let go of the clutch? The more important thing is how it works when you are at speed - as long as it works "good enough" from stillstand.


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Mines works fine :wink:

I wanna race to everbody with the same engine and a short-shift from 0-60mph :lol:

The point is, in a manual you also don't reach the times that are given by Audi AG.
If you would sprint 10 times from 0-60mph, you will have 10 times a different time, because it's done by a human.
You sometimes hasitate to long with shifting or sometimesshift not at the right moment (RPM).
S-tronic (DSG) is a machine, and does it the same everytime. It's reliable.


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## fluffekins (Jan 20, 2007)

I test drove both the s tronic and manual 3.2 on the same day. I was extremly torn between the two, but opted for the s tronic in the end - probably because a) it is slightly faster and b) I have always had manuals and there is a challenge to getting used to the new system. Hopefully the novelty won't wear off too quickly.


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Welcome fluffekins,

And you want regret it, it's a good choice [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## CraigyTT (Oct 19, 2006)

Rebel said:


> Mines works fine :wink:
> 
> I wanna race to everbody with the same engine and a short-shift from 0-60mph :lol:


I wonder who else has the abt map on their car... If I did I'd happily race you.
Am I to understand you're dutch? (I work in Kent a lot, and am on the continent quite frequently).

C


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## CraigyTT (Oct 19, 2006)

Arne said:


> I mean - how often do you rew your car to 5.000 rpm at stillstand, and let go of the clutch? The more important thing is how it works when you are at speed - as long as it works "good enough" from stillstand.


I don't pay for any of the consumibles on my car... 

I've not done a 5000 rpm launch yet as it's still running in, but I woudl say it's going to happen..

C


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

CraigyTT said:


> Arne said:
> 
> 
> > I mean - how often do you rew your car to 5.000 rpm at stillstand, and let go of the clutch? The more important thing is how it works when you are at speed - as long as it works "good enough" from stillstand.
> ...


I have to pay for everything, so I will treat "her" nice - but still play a bit with her


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## T3 (Sep 24, 2006)

CraigyTT said:


> Rebel said:
> 
> 
> > Where did they these test?
> ...


I know about this test. VW guys werent present as the article claimed, and they didnt switch off ESP.. ie they didnt use LC.. ( launch control- for all you manual guys)

The idiots kept trying to launch and ESP wasnt allowing it. Yes some South Africans are a little slow..

Now please check ou the next link for proper proof that DSG ( stronic) IS quicker...


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## benjones (Dec 4, 2006)

Nice vid... makes me happy that I spec'd s-tronic


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

:lol:


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Rebel said:


> Where did they these test?
> 
> In south africa????
> 
> ...


I saw this "test" one year ago, and also the comment's at that time..... so therefor my reaction....
But it's alway's nice how some people are trying to pull things to the ground.

Toshiba what's it gonna be....S-tronic or the "magic" short stick?? :lol:


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Rebel said:


> Toshiba what's it gonna be....S-tronic or the "magic" short stick?? :lol:


I sticking with my decision to dump my manual MKII for a DSG equipped MKII.


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Maybe a shorter DSG-stick ?


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## CraigyTT (Oct 19, 2006)

T3 said:


> Now please check ou the next link for proper proof that DSG ( stronic) IS quicker...


Having driven both (in fact: DSG 2.0TT, DSG 3.2TT, Golf DSG, manual Golf GTi, Manual 2.0TT), I expect I'll only believe it once I'm on track with them.

Any takers?

C


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

I did, last year in november, just look at my website :wink: 
I liked it very much on the track, and i'm looking forward to go back this spring.


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## CraigyTT (Oct 19, 2006)

Rebel said:


> I did, last year in november, just look at my website :wink:
> I liked it very much on the track, and i'm looking forward to go back this spring.


Really nice website Rob. I think that's the first time I've seen a personal website in 2 languages )

(crazy cloggies)

C


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## AidenL (Nov 29, 2006)

Rebel said:


> Maybe a shorter DSG-stick ?


 :lol: :lol:


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

CraigyTT said:


> T3 said:
> 
> 
> > Now please check ou the next link for proper proof that DSG ( stronic) IS quicker...
> ...


Try some of the F1 drivers..... 

Pretty long time since they where swirling around with a stick 8)


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## CraigyTT (Oct 19, 2006)

Arne said:


> Pretty long time since they where swirling around with a stick 8)


I dunno, I watched Jenson playing rounders last summer :lol: 
(just kiddin')

C


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

CraigyTT said:


> Arne said:
> 
> 
> > Pretty long time since they where swirling around with a stick 8)
> ...


  :lol:


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## Jimbo2 (Nov 30, 2006)

Thanks for all the replies! I've got loads of useful info and advice from here, so it's nice to be able to give back.

Looking forward to hearing Tosh's thoughts when he swaps cars.


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## newlu (Oct 23, 2006)

great write-up :-*


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## HardDrive (May 10, 2002)

I've currently got a 3.2DSG Mk1 and have just ordered a 3.2 MkII but in manual form. The DSG may be good on a track and for stop and start motorway driving but I miss having the fine control you get with a clutch. Try reversing slowly up a hill with DSG!


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

HardDrive said:


> I've currently got a 3.2DSG Mk1 and have just ordered a 3.2 MkII but in manual form. The DSG may be good on a track and for stop and start motorway driving but I miss having the fine control you get with a clutch. Try reversing slowly up a hill with DSG!


With the new and modified DSG (now called S-tronic), that is no problem what so ever :wink:


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Well having had a few week with a MKII MR DSG and 5 months with a MKII Manual no DSG my thoughts are these.

MR Vs Standard
You can feel the difference, but this is both a good and a bad thing. With 19s on (cant talk about 18s) it can be very hard and bouncy with sport mode enabled. The car is totally flat even if you go round corners at silly speeds. It Does make the car feel more sporty for sure. I crap myself every time i go over a less than perfect road thinking either the tyre has failed or the rim is bent due to the crash/bang feel you get if you get in sight of a pot hole. Comfort mode is np, and is less hardcore than sports mode. Makes for more relaxed driving experience. How does it compare again the standard setup? Well you do have both setting so it does out perform std for this very reason. Both for thrashing around and cruising in the two modes is better. Is it worth the money - in not sure. Would i order it again - probably. I would like more control over the system - maybe a thumb wheel like the dash-dimmer so you can fine tune your own setting to your taste???

Manual Vs DSG
Manual in 1st and 2nd is just too jerky i needed a neck brace at times to stop my neck from snapping back and forth, else you use tonnes of clutch to get anything close to OK (Its never smooth). DSG, lots of different modes, but the kick down in D mode annoys the hell out of me, as it love to rev the car up to red line and on one instance i somehow got it to rev at 8k by catching the flipper when booting it round a corner. God knows what the engine thought with 150 miles on the clock. I like the convenience of DSG and it is less jerky for sure but, i'm just not sold on it atm. Not heard the fabled sound (plof) others have mentioned, maybe its a 20T thing? Am i tempted by a manual - at times but i don't miss the bruised forehead you get from having one.


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## G1DRA (Jan 10, 2007)

Toshiba,

I know exactly what you mean, the 3.2 A3 manual is the same. That's why I've spec'ed the DSG 3.2 TTC


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## Bryn (Feb 12, 2004)

G1DRA said:


> I know exactly what you mean, the 3.2 A3 manual is the same. That's why I've spec'ed the DSG 3.2 TTC


I agree, I had a 3.2 A3 on loan for a day and it was near on impossible to get a smooth take off. Get it right and it went like stink, get it wrong and it was all over!, however, getting it right involved more luck than skill. 
I also had a MKII TT 3.2 manual for a morning test drive and it was no better, in actual fact it was bloody awful IMHO.

I've had three MKI's (couple of 225's and a V6) and I had issues with the box on all of them. As far as my own experiences are concerned Audi cant build a decent manual box. 
I took the STronic option this time on the MKII and i'm so glad I did - it's superb. It does have it's little moments and kick down is a bit of a pain but i'm getting into my own style of driving now and really loving it


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## Gaz Man (Dec 20, 2006)

Toshiba said:


> Not heard the fabled sound (plof) others have mentioned, maybe its a 20T thing?


I think its a 2.0T thing as you mention Tosh. I test drove a Stronic A3 2.0T and the sound was quite addictive.

My 3.2 doesn't make that sound, but growls instead :evil:


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## Bryn (Feb 12, 2004)

Gaz Man said:


> Toshiba said:
> 
> 
> > Not heard the fabled sound (plof) others have mentioned, maybe its a 20T thing?
> ...


Mine used to do it but it dose'nt any more  but it does make a little crackle noise when it shifts now - with the Milltek fitted  :twisted:


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## Gaz Man (Dec 20, 2006)

Bryn said:


> Gaz Man said:
> 
> 
> > Toshiba said:
> ...


Bryn, would you say the 3.2 sounded better before or after you had the Milltek fitted?


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## Bryn (Feb 12, 2004)

Gaz Man said:


> Bryn said:
> 
> 
> > Gaz Man said:
> ...


Gaz, definitely much better but nothing in your face or boy racer about it at all, just a lovely low howl


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## Gaz Man (Dec 20, 2006)

Bryn said:


> Gaz Man said:
> 
> 
> > Bryn said:
> ...


I feel a trip to UK Performance coming on......... :lol:


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## G1DRA (Jan 10, 2007)

Bryn said:


> G1DRA said:
> 
> 
> > I know exactly what you mean, the 3.2 A3 manual is the same. That's why I've spec'ed the DSG 3.2 TTC
> ...


Bryn,

This was exactly my concern when I was not able to test drive the TTC 3.2 manual, but I was able to test drive the DSG. I thought the risk was too great so I opted for the DSG (S-Tronic) and I'm glad I did!

In my experience I found the 3.2 TTC DSG to be two cars in one. If you want the easy relaxed driving you've got it and if you want more control then use the paddles.

In any case it is a personal preference but I welcome other opinions


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## vagman (Sep 6, 2002)

On the mkI 3.2, there was a wee rubber hose thingy which you could detach in order to adjust the volume of the exhaust. 

I was wondering as to whether anyone has done this on their mkII 3.2 yet. :roll:


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## Bryn (Feb 12, 2004)

vagman said:


> On the mkI 3.2, there was a wee rubber hose thingy which you could detach in order to adjust the volume of the exhaust.
> 
> I was wondering as to whether anyone has done this on their mkII 3.2 yet. :roll:


I looked into this because I did it on my MKI and the exhaust note sounded perfect, but alas there is no rubber hose thingy on the MKII


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Can we not just drill a hole in the exhaust?


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## Bryn (Feb 12, 2004)

Toshiba said:


> Can we not just drill a hole in the exhaust?


Alright you start! - let us know how you get on! :roll:


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Should have tried it on the last one :wink:


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