# What type of petrol is best?



## curlytop (Jun 22, 2006)

Anyone using normal unleaded petrol, rather than the better stuff (sorry can't remember the name).

Does it make any difference to the engine or performance?

Reason I'm asking is it's a pain in the a**e to find one near where I live!


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## FinFerNan (Feb 28, 2007)

curlytop said:


> Anyone using normal unleaded petrol, rather than the better stuff (sorry can't remember the name).
> 
> Does it make any difference to the engine or performance?
> 
> Reason I'm asking is it's a pain in the a**e to find one near where I live!


Try these people:

http://www.petrolprices.com/

Put your post code and type of fuel you want in, and they email you every week (if you want) with the cheapest fuel in your area. This will also tell you were to buy the higher octane fuel if you want it.

It's bloody expensive though (around Â£1.05/litre)


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## Iceman (Jul 3, 2004)

*Aral/BP Ultimate 100.*

Hans.


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## Reaperman (Nov 3, 2006)

FinFerNan said:


> curlytop said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone using normal unleaded petrol, rather than the better stuff (sorry can't remember the name).
> ...


Not as expensive as this stuff

http://www.bp.com/genericsection.do?cat ... Id=7017179

Â£2.10 per litre....


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2007)

I just stick to Tesco.


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## Greg-LB (May 12, 2006)

Using 95RON, until the price for both 98 & 95 RON max out at 99.9p. (if it does like last time)

95 RON will give slightly lower power (vs 98RON) but you're not going notice in normal driving.

Anything more than 98RON is money down the drain (unless you have specifically tuned for a higher RON).


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## Rebel (Feb 12, 2005)

Alway's octan 98.
I did this also in my MK1, and the car's just feels better than with octan 95 fuel


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## loic (Nov 14, 2006)

Tesco 99 - can't beat it


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## Jimbo2 (Nov 30, 2006)

I use Shell V-Power - get better performance and when I'm doing a long motorway drive I can get over 350 miles to a tank, which is about 80 miles more than with 95 RON.

(edit - Esso?! naaaah!)


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## paulie1 (Mar 6, 2007)

Yea funny that is'nt it-i use shell v-power and seem to consistently get more miles to the gallon.
I dont really notice an improvement in power but seems to be a little smoother.

I seem to remember the FSI engines are recommended(in the handbook) to run on 98RON anyway.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Tesco 99 and V-power are the only 2 "unique" performance fuels in the UK. All others are generic with additives.

Personally I avoid Tesco 99 like the plague because it contains large quantities of bio-ethanol (hence why it's so cheap!). Bio-ethonol may be good for the environment but it is *BAD* for an engine and over time will casue problems.

My preference is for V-power, due to it's unique cleaning ability and decent RON rate.


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## jam225 (Jun 24, 2003)

Apart from whatever [email protected] the deaer put in mine I've had 2 fills of BP ultimate (which my GTI used to love) but the V6 doesn't

Apart from that its been exclusively V-Power at Â£1.07 / litre up here. Worth every penny IMHO


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2007)

kmpowell said:


> Tesco 99 and V-power are the only 2 "unique" performance fuels in the UK. All others are generic with additives.
> 
> Personally I avoid Tesco 99 like the plague because it contains large quantities of bio-ethanol (hence why it's so cheap!). Bio-ethonol may be good for the environment but it is *BAD* for an engine and over time will casue problems.


Thing is, over what time period?
Most of us dont keep cars more than 2 yrs.

And to be honest, come resale who's gonna know?


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## loic (Nov 14, 2006)

kmpowell said:


> Personally I avoid Tesco 99 like the plague because it contains large quantities of bio-ethanol (hence why it's so cheap!). Bio-ethonol may be good for the environment but it is *BAD* for an engine and over time will casue problems.


Tesco 99 contains 5% bio-ethanol, most research states that anything up to 13% can be used in unmodified engines without detriment. Anything over this ratio *may* cause damage to the aluminium and rubber components of the engine due to bio-ethanol being more acidic than petrol.


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2007)

loic said:


> kmpowell said:
> 
> 
> > Personally I avoid Tesco 99 like the plague because it contains large quantities of bio-ethanol (hence why it's so cheap!). Bio-ethonol may be good for the environment but it is *BAD* for an engine and over time will casue problems.
> ...


So is tesco fuel good or bad?
And is this kind of engine component damage covered by warranty?


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

loic said:


> kmpowell said:
> 
> 
> > Personally I avoid Tesco 99 like the plague because it contains large quantities of bio-ethanol (hence why it's so cheap!). Bio-ethonol may be good for the environment but it is *BAD* for an engine and over time will casue problems.
> ...


It still contains 5% though and that tolerance is only acceptable on an 'unmodified' engine.

Couple this with the fact Tesco 99 doesn't contain the cleaning agents that V-Power does, and you have a fuel that *WILL* damage the engine and doesn't clean the deposits regular SP leaves.

V-Power for me, without question. Sad I know but I have even downloaded the Shell petrol station POI file for my TomTom, so when I need fuel in a place I don't know, I can ask my TomTom to navigate to the nearest Shell garage.


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## loic (Nov 14, 2006)

DUO3 NAN said:


> So is tesco fuel good or bad?
> And is this kind of engine component damage covered by warranty?


I covered 90,000 miles in my previous car (Merc CLK) using Tesco 99 for 90% of the time with no ill effects. Performance & MPG were significantly better than with other fuels that I tried.

Audi, along with all other manufacturers, allow for a 5% mix. If you're in any doubt, give them a call.

The fuel comapnies would have to replace all of their petrol pumps, tanker fleets and storage facilities if the bio-thanol in the fuel caused any damage as they all contain aluminium & rubber components.

I'll continue to use it until they significantly increase the ratio of bio-ethanol to petrol.


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## loic (Nov 14, 2006)

kmpowell said:


> Couple this with the fact Tesco 99 doesn't contain the cleaning agents that V-Power does, and you have a fuel that *WILL* damage the engine and doesn't clean the deposits regular SP leaves.


Bio-ethanol acts as a cleaning agent...

You stick to what you like best, but telling people that Tesco 99 *WILL* damage their engine without any evidence is not helping anyone...

:wink:


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

loic said:


> Bio-ethanol acts as a cleaning agent...


Bio-ethanol is not a cleaning agent, it is simply a type of alcohol made by fermenting sugars from plants. Bioethanol is more acidic than petrol, so can cause damage to aluminium components and rubber seals. Above a 10% mix of bioethanol, cars have to be modified to make sure they can withstand the more abrasive fuel, and ensure it flows properly.

The RON number refers only to the fuels ability to withstand knocking. The common misconception is that a higher octane is somehow a more 'super fuel grade' that will clean the plugs, give huge acceleration gains etc etc... in reality though it doesn't. Cleaning agents are added to clean up the resdue by faster buring RON fuels, Tesco 99 however does not include these agents.



loic said:


> You stick to what you like best, but telling people that Tesco 99 *WILL* damage their engine without any evidence is not helping anyone...


I'm stating fact, hence the guideline and tolerance levels which are there to stipluate 'minimum' amounts of damage. Damage is still occuring regardless of how small it may be.


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2007)

kmpowell said:


> loic said:
> 
> 
> > Bio-ethanol acts as a cleaning agent...
> ...


So, if you were me, what should i be putting in the aston and the m6?
I've been using tesco after reading something someone posted on this site somewhere.

I've used it in the tt and the golf for over a year.

Oh yeah, Good luck with the sale tomorrow Kev.


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2007)

Filling up with v power tomorrow.

I know its Â£500,but it does take the hassle out of the equation.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

DUO3 NAN said:


> kmpowell said:
> 
> 
> > loic said:
> ...


V-Power mate. With a n/a engine you won't see quite the same amount of power advantage as you would do with a Turbo engine, but V-Power is the only high octane fuel with specific cleaning additives. With regular (the key word) use you will see a cleaner engine, higher MPG and more responsive throttle response especially lower down the rev range.

To see the best from V-Power you need to have used at least 3 full tank fulls so it is in the pipes and completely cleaned out any other fuel that will contaminate the purity of V-Power.



p.s. Cheers for the good luck. Long story but I ditched the Irish guy 'cos something didn't feel quite right, so she is off to a VW specialist tommorow for Â£20k instead. For the sake of Â£500 it isn't worth any potential hassle.


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## loic (Nov 14, 2006)

kmpowell said:


> I'm stating fact, hence the guideline and tolerance levels which are there to stipluate 'minimum' amounts of damage. Damage is still occuring regardless of how small it may be.


Without evidence to support this 'fact', you are merely stating opinion...

_*"Car manufacturers are cautious about bioethanol, however. The warranties of today's standard cars state that no more than 5% bioethanol should be used. Bioethanol is more acidic than petrol, so can cause damage to aluminium components and rubber seals. Despite the warranty restriction, most experts agree modern cars could withstand a 10% mix of bioethanol without causing damage to engines."*_

Full story http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,1710219,00.html


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

loic said:


> kmpowell said:
> 
> 
> > I'm stating fact, hence the guideline and tolerance levels which are there to stipluate 'minimum' amounts of damage. Damage is still occuring regardless of how small it may be.
> ...


loic, not sure why you keep beating this drum. Read any article and it's full of 'could' 'maybe' etc etc. There is nothing to suggest it doesn't do damage, but plenty to suggest it does. Just becasue it falls within tolerance levels, the facts are still as follows;

- Bio-Ethanol used in non converted cars causes damage - regardless of how samll the damamge is it still casues damage over time. this is especially prevalent in highly tuned cars or modified (ECU mapped) cars.
- Tesco 99 contains NO cleaning agents

If you want to save yourself a few pence and run your PAJ on that sort of stuff you go ahead, but personally I don't.


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## loic (Nov 14, 2006)

kmpowell said:


> loic, not sure why you keep beating this drum. Read any article and it's full of 'could' 'maybe' etc etc. There is nothing to suggest it doesn't do damage, but plenty to suggest it does. Just becasue it falls within tolerance levels, the facts are still as follows;
> 
> - Bio-Ethanol used in non converted cars causes damage - regardless of how samll the damamge is it still casues damage over time. this is especially prevalent in highly tuned cars or modified (ECU mapped) cars.
> - Tesco 99 contains NO cleaning agents
> ...


Thank you for helping me see the error of my ways - I now consider myself well and truly corrected....

I'll reprogramme my sat-nav accordingly!! :lol:


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## sandhua1978 (Sep 11, 2006)

loic said:


> kmpowell said:
> 
> 
> > Personally I avoid Tesco 99 like the plague because it contains large quantities of bio-ethanol (hence why it's so cheap!). Bio-ethonol may be good for the environment but it is *BAD* for an engine and over time will casue problems.
> ...


But the ECU doesn't seem to like it! After many tank fulls of V-power i put tesco 99 in only for the light to come on! :? Since then I have only put V-power and no sign of the ECU since.


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## mrfitzy2u (Sep 27, 2006)

V-power may cost more than regular but it is cost netral, so I dont mind the higher price.

Run your car on regualr and record mpg against money and compare against second tank of v-power (to ensure it is a fair test and all V-power) and as long as you had similar driving profile it is the same price per mile.

This means you go to fuel pump less and have slightly smoother power delivery - what more can you ask?


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## Johnnywb (May 31, 2006)

I only run mine on V-Power.

Funnily with diesel, BP Ultimate Diesel was much smoother than v-power diesel, but the TT feels much better on V-Power than Ultimate. Have Shell on my sat nav all the time and try not to fill up wiht anything else.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

Johnnywb said:


> Have Shell on my sat nav all the time and try not to fill up wiht anything else.


Phew, glad it's not just me!


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## bargeboard (May 11, 2007)

kmpowell said:


> Johnnywb said:
> 
> 
> > Have Shell on my sat nav all the time and try not to fill up wiht anything else.
> ...


So now I have been enlighted too , can you tell, where can I get the shell POI for my new sat Nav ( not the one im selling though haha )


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

normal stuff.


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## TommyTippee (May 31, 2007)

dyu kno

years & years ago we had a thing called Castrol R yea it was castor oil-: BELIEVE IT OR NOT IT WAS VAGETABLE OIL. You could not use it if there was any trace of mineral oil!! The two do the same job but just do NOT mix.

The stuff was f***ing fantastic for lubing racing engines but it did not mix with mineral based oils, and the smell----- "I just love the smell of napalme first thing in the morning!!" Jet A is just as good     "I am not happy mixing veg and mineral oils, the chemistry is not compatible.

There is an envionmental push to Bio stuff these days without regard for concequences - remember lead free - and the sh1t that followed that


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## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

kmpowell said:


> loic said:
> 
> 
> > kmpowell said:
> ...


Your wrong it does have cleaning agents:

http://www.greenergy.com/tesco_99_octane/index.html

Manufacturers build cars to take 5% bio so your wrong there also. The fact they are designed to take it makes your argument weak.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

sico said:


> Your wrong it does have cleaning agents:


No, read the article properly and you'll see that there are no cleaning agents. Yes an additive is there to clean up the deposits the Tesco fuel produces (all fuels have this, it just so happpens the Tesco one is slightly stronger), however there is nothing added to clean the engine on an on giong basis. V-Power for example uses Friction Modification Technology (FMT) which cleans the engine and ensures deposits cannot build up. That's the difference and is a big difference for ensuring optimum performance in a car.

As I said previously Tesco 99 and V-power are the only 2 "unique" performance fuels in the UK, but they work in completely different ways.

You pay for what you get, simple as that.



sico said:


> Manufacturers build cars to take 5% bio so your wrong there also. The fact they are designed to take it makes your argument weak.


Tolerance levels are a guideline, and shouldn't be used as fact (this is also stressed by the manufacturers). Engines are not made to specifically withstand 5%, it just so happens the tollerance level can be as much as 5% due to the engineering process. Whatever the tolerance levels though the engine is still being damamged and optimum performance is affected. This is especially prevalent in highly tuned cars or modified (ECU mapped) cars.


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## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

kmpowell said:


> sico said:
> 
> 
> > Your wrong it does have cleaning agents:
> ...


From the website:

1, (read bold)

Tesco 99 Octane also contains *low levels of olefinic compounds, typically less than 5%, compared with up to 18% in standard petrols*. These compounds can lead to the creation of engine deposits. To ensure Tesco 99 Octane remains â€˜cleanerâ€™ petrol, an additive package is included with twice the protective power of typical 95 octane fuel. *It removes existing deposits* and helps the engine to run more smoothly.

2, your argument on tolerances is flawed. Its like saying the red line is 6,000 RPM but its not recommended you rev it to 6000 as it causes more engine wear - Its only a guideline.

Of course there are tolerences the whole engine has them and as long as you are within them then A, your covered by the warranty and B, they have been tested with those tolerences. 
All engines wear at different levels as do all machanical parts depending on the driver/ journeys and other factors.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

sico said:


> From the website:
> 
> 1, (read bold)
> 
> Tesco 99 Octane also contains *low levels of olefinic compounds, typically less than 5%, compared with up to 18% in standard petrols*. These compounds can lead to the creation of engine deposits. To ensure Tesco 99 Octane remains â€˜cleanerâ€™ petrol, an additive package is included with twice the protective power of typical 95 octane fuel. *It removes existing deposits* and helps the engine to run more smoothly.


It's marketing blurb (hence why all their website comparisons are with standard 95RON and not S'PLUS fuels). *ALL* petrol already contains this additive - Tesco can offer twice the additives power due to the depoists being less than 50% in the first place! It's nothing special, and there are no specific extra 'on-going' engine cleaning agents included, unlike V-Power.



sico said:


> 2, your argument on tolerances is flawed. Its like saying the red line is 6,000 RPM but its not recommended you rev it to 6000 as it causes more engine wear - Its only a guideline.
> 
> Of course there are tolerences the whole engine has them and as long as you are within them then A, your covered by the warranty and B, they have been tested with those tolerences.


You seem to have missed my point. Just because there are tolerances, it doesn't mean it doesn't do any harm. Why put extra strain on an engine when you can spend a few p per litre more and get a petrol that doesn't harm your engine, and at the same time cleans/protects it.


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## mohan (Mar 15, 2007)

kmpowell said:


> sico said:
> 
> 
> > From the website:
> ...


we used to do this debate to death on the m5 forums.... the additive in v-power is similar to the additive in tesco 99,, the cleaning additive, but the mix is different and v-power contains other ingredients....

quite simply, their's Kfc, and there's other fried chicken, i only eat KFC, similarly the car only gets v-power!


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 24, 2006)

mohan said:


> i only eat KFC


eeeeeeeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuugggggggggggghhhhhhh.... :roll:


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## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

It's marketing blurb - I knew that would be your answer. Very predictable. Once the facts have been proven the only option is to say its nonsense.

Greenergy actually display their fuel details on the Web, maybe you should compare to Shell BUT unfortunatley Shell do not!

So the V-Power information is marketing blurb also then? Maybe not because they are Shell and dont have blurb?

Maybe everyone is telling porkies?


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

The best petrol is company petrol - i love my all star fuel card


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## loic (Nov 14, 2006)

sico said:


> It's marketing blurb - I knew that would be your answer. Very predictable. Once the facts have been proven the only option is to say its nonsense.
> 
> Greenergy actually display their fuel details on the Web, maybe you should compare to Shell BUT unfortunatley Shell do not!
> 
> ...


At the end of the day, a lot of people get caught up in all the hype that these huge petrochem giants put out = ie. Ferrari use it, so it must be good!! FACT - Ferrari use Shell fuel because Shell pay Ferrari a ton of money to do so!!

Tesco fuel is cheaper than V-Power because Tesco don't have to spend Millions of Â£Â£Â£'s on telling people how great it is, not because it's inferior to V-Power.

That's my opinion, others will hold different views. Until somebody provides evidence that Tesco fuel is damaging my engine, then I'll happily carry on using it.

My last car (CLK 200k) did 90,000 miles in 3 years on Tesco 99 and never missed a beat nor displayed any signs of abnormal engine wear.

Just because someone has interpreted information differently to me - doesn't make their opinion fact, no matter how convinced they may be of that!!


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

sico said:


> It's marketing blurb - I knew that would be your answer. Very predictable. Once the facts have been proven the only option is to say its nonsense.


Perhaps I should have expanded - not just blurb, but 'spin' also. Why? Well, comparing high performance fuel with standard fuel is hardly becoming of its values. Perhaps they would like to compare their cleaning additives with V-Power and see what it contains. As well as the *STANDARD* addititves (the one's Tesco bleat on about being special) that *ALL* fuel uses, shell also uses FMT, fact. FMT is an ongoing process and is prevention rather than a cure - something Tesco 99 does not have.

At the end of the day we all have choices and opinions. Clearly we disagree here, so lets just agree to disagree. 



loic said:


> My last car (CLK 200k) did 90,000 miles in 3 years on Tesco 99


Considering Tesco 99 wasn't introduced until December 2005, you are clearly talking codshit.


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## loic (Nov 14, 2006)

kmpowell said:


> loic said:
> 
> 
> > My last car (CLK 200k) did 90,000 miles in 3 years on Tesco 99
> ...


Resorting to personal insults?? I'd expect more from you.

The point is that I've used Tesco 99 since it was introduced without ill-effect. I neither keep a fuel diary to record the exact dates of my fuel purchases nor a 'special' map with stickers on (or electronic equivalent) to show me where I can buy my favourite fuel....

Now, back to you for the last word.....

You seem the type who always has to have the last say :roll:


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## sico (Feb 6, 2003)

kmpowell said:


> sico said:
> 
> 
> > It's marketing blurb - I knew that would be your answer. Very predictable. Once the facts have been proven the only option is to say its nonsense.
> ...


You obviously a fuel expert who worships the great Shell god.

I know I can get a fuel report from greenergy and not from Shell. Lets start with that, lets compare fuel reports. Wheres yours? Also list the additives that are in Shell V power and not in Shell 95 normal petrol.

FMT (Friction Modification Technology) is an additive made by Shell, all hail the Shell god for FMT it must all be true.....

Maybe you could provide some sceintific details as to how and why it works?

You have great blind faith in Shell.

P.S there is a billion differences between a F1 engine and your lump!


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