# Adjustable tie bars - now made - Picture



## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

I have contacts with a engineering firm and thought how difficult could it be to use existing rear tie bars and insert some rally adjusters. I simply can't see how it's difficult at all but no doubt someone has tried baring the price of new ones in mind so what am I missing? :?
If anyone has sawn a tie bar in half and knows the id I'd love to know. Also if anyone has any old ones they'd like to donate to the cause if it all works out I'll send you some completed ones foc.
Please note that these will be done by my old company where I was the MD and they provide sub-contract work to the aircraft and motorsport industry so we're talking about aircraft standard work here not some back street numpty with a welder, a hacksaw and a big hammer!
if you're not happy about donating some as presumably  you'll already have adjustable tie bars let me know and I'll happily buy any old ones.


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## dazzadrew1 (Feb 6, 2010)

Why are you not MD now ?  [smiley=behead.gif] [smiley=behead.gif] [smiley=behead2.gif]

And keep us posted on any success as I'm a works director in precision engineering and interested in making some myself .


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

dazzadrew1 said:


> Why are you not MD now ?  [smiley=behead.gif] [smiley=behead.gif] [smiley=behead2.gif]
> 
> And keep us posted on any success as I'm a works director in precision engineering and interested in making some myself .


Got fed up with working 70 hours a week, usual story.
All I need is some spare TT tie bars as I've popped back in told and the lads what I'm after and as I thought not an issue just surprises us all what the RRP price of these things are. I've pm'd Stanners and offered to buy his old ones, providing he still has them. If not I'll try the usual source.
What end of the market are you at, we're at the Sip jig borer, Makino machining centre end of the market, or should I say they are not me any more!


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

keithtd said:


> I have contacts with a high precision engineering firm and thought how difficult could it be to use existing rear tie bars and insert some rally adjusters. I simply can't see how it's difficult at all but no doubt someone has tried baring the price of new ones in mind so what am I missing? :?
> If anyone has sawn a tie bar in half and knows the id I'd love to know. Also if anyone has any old ones they'd like to donate to the cause if it all works out I'll send you some completed ones foc.
> Please note that these will be done by my old company where I was the MD and they provide sub-contract work to the aircraft and motorsport industry so we're talking about aircraft standard work here not some back street numpty with a welder, a hacksaw and a big hammer!
> if you're not happy about donating some as presumably  you'll already have adjustable tie bars let me know and I'll happily buy any old ones.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

keithtd said:


> I have contacts with a high precision engineering firm and thought how difficult could it be to use existing rear tie bars and insert some rally adjusters. I simply can't see how it's difficult at all but no doubt someone has tried baring the price of new ones in mind so what am I missing? :?
> If anyone has sawn a tie bar in half and knows the id I'd love to know. Also if anyone has any old ones they'd like to donate to the cause if it all works out I'll send you some completed ones foc.
> Please note that these will be done by my old company where I was the MD and they provide sub-contract work to the aircraft and motorsport industry so we're talking about aircraft standard work here not some back street numpty with a welder, a hacksaw and a big hammer!
> if you're not happy about donating some as presumably  you'll already have adjustable tie bars let me know and I'll happily buy any old ones.


i take humbridge in your post keith tbh........i have spent years in engineering and my last job was Moog controls f1 and aerospace work. i now own a backstreet engineering company that specialise in one off items...........and yes i have welders hacksaws and hammers, but not a numpty thank you.
as an ex MD (mindless dork)..........i find your sales skills very lacking and your emotive skills poor to say the least.


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Gazzer said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > I have contacts with a high precision engineering firm and thought how difficult could it be to use existing rear tie bars and insert some rally adjusters. I simply can't see how it's difficult at all but no doubt someone has tried baring the price of new ones in mind so what am I missing? :?
> ...


If you're not a numpty you're not the kind of place I'm talking about then are you so what's the issue. Take umbrage if you like that's your prerogative but tbh but your smart arsed comment that all MD's are mindless dorks has obviously hit a chord and what the hell are 'emotive skills' when they're at home please explain as I don't know what they are being a 'dork'.
By the way I'm not trying to sell anything just seeing if I can do something that might be of interest not only to me but other members on here pity do don't do the same.


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## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

There's a set of "DIY" adjustable tie bars on eBay at the moment :

http://bit.ly/173NlwI

As well as a cheap pair of originals for your project :

http://bit.ly/11iziCW

I'm actually selling 2 sets of Stern bars on eBay myself at the moment, but have resisted linking those ;-)


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

mullum said:


> There's a set of "DIY" adjustable tie bars on eBay at the moment :
> 
> http://bit.ly/173NlwI
> 
> ...


Thanks for that mate but after reading a number of posts where the threaded section has failed in adjustable tie bars I was wondering why rally in-situ adjusters aren't used so I thought I'd make some and see how it turns out - just a project really that may or may not work. If it does then we may all benefit as a dare say they'll be a damn sight cheaper and better made than most tie bars out there - I say all Gazzers not getting any :lol:


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## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

I'm not savvy about the type you're referring to but interested to learn 

Came across this too http://bit.ly/11iDqmw


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Did you say you need a spare set of tie bars Keith  
Always willing to help a fellow member even when others make fun.

What's with the name calling I wonder :?


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

With his command of the English language Kal if I was him I'd wouldn't be insulting anyone. :lol:
By the way thanks to everyone who has pm'd me I'll keep you up to date with the progress.


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## NoMark (Jul 6, 2011)

Now where did I put that popcorn? :lol:

Seriously Keith, Gazzer's a good 'un. Unlike him to spit the dummy mate. He's either having a bad day or his message was meant in jest and taken out of context, very easy to do on a forum where the intonation can't be taken from the written word.

Oh and Gaz does loads to help forum members too.

Best of luck with your project, I hope it works and you can be a cheap supplier of good quality Tie-bars. I'd be interested as I have some lowering suspension to go on the TT (when I can find the time :roll: ).

Mark.


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

NoMark said:


> Now where did I put that popcorn? :lol:
> 
> Seriously Keith, Gazzer's a good 'un. Unlike him to spit the dummy mate. He's either having a bad day or his message was meant in jest and taken out of context, very easy to do on a forum where the intonation can't be taken from the written word.
> 
> ...


Gaz's time of the month probably but there was no call for such remarks tbh especially as what I'm having a go at may well help us all but no big deal.


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Pms gaz you poor thing 

Take some pain killers and "plenty" of rest x edit


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Quick update. New tie bars are on there way courtesy of Bigbison and soon as they arrive I'll be 'going to work on them'.


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## Stealth69 (Jun 25, 2012)

This sounds interesting, good luck chap and if it works ill buy a set....... Gotta be cheaper than tyres every 500yards


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Two brand new tie bars arrived end of last week courtesy of Bigbison and the adjusters arrived on Friday.
Boycie kindly gave me some measurements which confirmed what I had roughly calculated for the cutting points so now all marked up and waiting for the saw!
Went to the stealers today and order myself some new stretch bolts and nuts which should be in next week.
Off to the work shop on Tuesday to have inserts made and welded into the tie bars. Just a case then of finishing them off and putting them on.


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## Stealth69 (Jun 25, 2012)

Awesome work buddy and very quick progress, looking forward to swing the end result 

P. s. I want some made up


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## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

Aye me too ;-)


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## rodgerq (Mar 7, 2012)

ive been looking at this lately aswell.

the "in situ" adjusters are called jack screws. basically a hex bar turned down and a RH thread cut into one side and a LH thread cut into the other, with corresponding inserts being welded into the arms. you can buy full kits with the jack screw, half nuts and threaded inserts already machined and ready to be welded in. it works out a damn sight cheaper than buying taps and dies to do the work, especially the LH stuff!!

can i ask what thread you will be making yours to and what material?

im sure you'll have measured the arms already and wont need the info but i did it and had the notes on my phone which crashed and i lost them literally 2 days ago. if i remember i measured them at 33 x 27 with a 2mm wall thickness. the advantage of keeping the square ones is that the headlamp adjuster will still fit. i have round ones on at the moment and am in the middle of making a small bush to fit over it to allow the standard bracket to mount the round arms.

very interested to see the progress on this since im looking at it aswell.  8)


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## steveupton (Mar 23, 2010)

I am no engineer but learned a lot from my late father who was and one question that springs to mind is whether the gauge and type of steel used in the standard arms will be sufficient to take the local loading, specifically at the end of the inserts. Apologies if this is a dumb question.


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

rodgerq said:


> ive been looking at this lately aswell.
> 
> the "in situ" adjusters are called jack screws. basically a hex bar turned down and a RH thread cut into one side and a LH thread cut into the other, with corresponding inserts being welded into the arms. you can buy full kits with the jack screw, half nuts and threaded inserts already machined and ready to be welded in. it works out a damn sight cheaper than buying taps and dies to do the work, especially the LH stuff!!
> 
> ...


You can buy the complete adjuster kit but they come with either round or hex inserts which do not fit snuggly into the OEM rectangular tie bars for a good strong weld so I'm making my own 25mm deep inserts out of mild steel which is all that is needed. Using 5/8" UNF adjusters and half nuts for tightening with spring washers.


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

steveupton said:


> I am no engineer but learned a lot from my late father who was and one question that springs to mind is whether the gauge and type of steel used in the standard arms will be sufficient to take the local loading, specifically at the end of the inserts. Apologies if this is a dumb question.


One end of OEM tie bars is already welded to a round section which contains the bushes so hope that answers your question. :wink:


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## rodgerq (Mar 7, 2012)

in my opinion it will be strong enough. the way i had planned to do it was to manufacture an insert, well 4 anyway, fitting the inside dimensions of the arm but with a lip that would butt against the end of the arm. kind of like a top hat shape. before insertion i plan to drill the arm ends just back from the cuts on all 4 sides so when i slide them into the arms, the holes can be used to puddle weld the inserts, as well as welding around the edges. this should be plenty strong enough.


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## rodgerq (Mar 7, 2012)

keithtd said:


> rodgerq said:
> 
> 
> > ive been looking at this lately aswell.
> ...


5/8 unf is what the arms i have use. compbrake items. plenty big enough. just replaced the inner sphericals and this what got me looking at making some


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

rodgerq said:


> in my opinion it will be strong enough. the way i had planned to do it was to manufacture an insert, well 4 anyway, fitting the inside dimensions of the arm but with a lip that would butt against the end of the arm. kind of like a top hat shape. before insertion i plan to drill the arm ends just back from the cuts on all 4 sides so when i slide them into the arms, the holes can be used to puddle weld the inserts, as well as welding around the edges. this should be plenty strong enough.


Thought about that solution too but problem is that the strength will depend on the strength of a relatively small section of the insert i.e. where the brim of the top hat meets the main insert body in your suggestion. I am going to leave the insert straight and sticking out approx 1 mm from tie bar and then weld around the end of the tie bar and the outside surface of the insert (if you see what I mean) but either way it will be plenty strong enough with a good weld - preferably Mig welded.


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## rodgerq (Mar 7, 2012)

yeah i understand what you mean, the weak point being the transition between the edge and the main body, possibly creating a shear point. its a good point!!


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## lodey23 (Feb 20, 2013)

Does anyone have a link to where the adjusters can be bought from, as I'm making the tie arms as a Uni project. But cannot find where the LH and RH adjusters can be found


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## TT Boycie (Sep 27, 2009)

lodey23 said:


> Does anyone have a link to where the adjusters can be bought from, as I'm making the tie arms as a Uni project. But cannot find where the LH and RH adjusters can be found


http://bit.ly/181wQEN


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

lodey23 said:


> Does anyone have a link to where the adjusters can be bought from, as I'm making the tie arms as a Uni project. But cannot find where the LH and RH adjusters can be found


Depending on what you want there are two sources:
https://www.tyagiracing.com/search.php? ... e&x=22&y=6
and
http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product_in ... ts_id=7183
Depends on what tie bars you're going to alter. You'll notice both inserts are not ideal for altering the rectangular OEM ones thats why I'm making mine. Good luck.  :wink:


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

For all those interested.
Just had the modified tie bars back and they have been chopped and inserts made. Just got to get them welded now and then fitted when the weather gets better (fair weather mechanic I'm afraid). I don't think they look too bad especially for what they have cost me!


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

keithtd said:


> For all those interested.
> Just had the modified tie bars back and they have been chopped and inserts made. Just got to get them welded now and then fitted when the weather gets better (fair weather mechanic I'm afraid). I don't think they look too bad especially for what they have cost me!


They look OEM 

Very nice

Didn't people slag you off about wanting to make those Keith... pardon my frency


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## Stealth69 (Jun 25, 2012)

Knock a set up for me Keith, they look Great...... Come on chap


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## Tritium (Apr 25, 2011)

Nice work Keith!
Of course the proof will be in the eating (driving) to prove the reliability in service. But good luck. You may have a business venture here.

Brian


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## lodey23 (Feb 20, 2013)

They are looking brilliant, i will upload some pictures of mine for my uni project when i finish them, got adjusters and new polybushes waiting to go in just need to get my ass in gear and get my friend to weld them up for me


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

lodey23 said:


> They are looking brilliant, i will upload some pictures of mine for my uni project when i finish them, got adjusters and new polybushes waiting to go in just need to get my ass in gear and get my friend to weld them up for me


Wow another member making his own tie bars 

You lucky guys I'm so Jealous


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## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

Do they have poly bushes in them ? If do which bush from where Keith ? Just curious ..


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Looks like a good project congrats 8)

Fingers crossed they hold up well which I suppose is the next stage in development


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

mullum said:


> Do they have poly bushes in them ? If do which bush from where Keith ? Just curious ..


No these are brand new OEM tie bars with OEM bushes, I didn't want poly bushes.


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## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

You did - you just didn't know it 

No seriously, why not ?


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

jamman said:


> Looks like a good project congrats 8)
> 
> Fingers crossed they hold up well which I suppose is the next stage in development


LOL the way these things are made they wouldn't look out of place on a tank! :lol:


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

mullum said:


> You did - you just didn't know it
> 
> No seriously, why not ?


Too stiff.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

keithtd said:


> For all those interested.
> Just had the modified tie bars back and they have been chopped and inserts made. Just got to get them welded now and then fitted when the weather gets better (fair weather mechanic I'm afraid). I don't think they look too bad especially for what they have cost me!


Keith i know i gave you a tad of grief on the original post......appologies for that, no am not after any lol. they need some locking nuts of some sort or will just vibrate loose. if it is just cutting and shutting an oem pm me whet it costs and if i can produce them cheaper i will give you a shout.


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Gazzer said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > For all those interested.
> ...


These have heavy duty spring loaded washers and half nuts (although may change to full nuts), when they're tightened they won't be coming lose! When installed adjuster and nuts will be covered with self amalgamating tape and the free end will be sealed with Gorilla Filler. :wink:
If you want to know the details of what exactly I did and used no problem. I'm not interested in making any for profit but if someone else can then that's fine with me.


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## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

But what's wrong with stiff bushes ? These aren't in the steering so what's the problem with them being stiff ? Surely the longevity of polyurethane is preferable ? Hence all the people replacing OEM rubber with Superpro/Powerflex/Whiteline etc

I like to hear both sides of things like this, so forgive me for asking.


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

I'm sure I've read that they are for the purposes of reducing flex and stretch of the chassis body... 

kp


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

mullum said:


> But what's wrong with stiff bushes ? These aren't in the steering so what's the problem with them being stiff ? Surely the longevity of polyurethane is preferable ? Hence all the people replacing OEM rubber with Superpro/Powerflex/Whiteline et
> 
> I like to hear both sides of things like this, so forgive me for asking.


The difference is a stiffer feel over general ride and noticeable and as for longevity my OEM bushes have lasted for the last 10 years so these ones are going to see the car out!
IMO many get carried away with stuff that's supposed to make a big difference, costs an arm and a leg and does sweet fanny adams for 99% of us!


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## Garth (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm with Keith on this one. I purposefully chose adjustable tie bars with OEM rubber bushes. They last just fine (my originals looked fine after 12 years and 128k miles when I took them off) and allow the tie bar to move easier. A bush that's too stiff puts more stress on the week part of the bar - the adjuster and can help cause early failure. Overall ride comfort is better on OEM bushes.

I only have poly bushes for the arbs as those take a hammering and OEM can wear out quickly ;-)

Good job Keith, I like what you've done :smile:


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Quick update. Not happy with the screw jacks I received from Tyagi racing so sent them back - no where near the quality I'm after, so now having my own made to finish the job off properly.  
It was the only part I bought so I must be a real finicky sob! :lol:


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## ian222 (May 4, 2007)

Just something to note its fine if you run these on your car but if you sell these even for no profit then if they fail it Could cause a accident. I wouldnt sell or give these away if I was making them not worth the risk. They wont be tuv approved thats part of the cost of the kw or gorge bars.


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## rodgerq (Mar 7, 2012)

keithtd said:


> Quick update. Not happy with the screw jacks I received from Tyagi racing so sent them back - no where near the quality I'm after, so now having my own made to finish the job off properly.
> It was the only part I bought so I must be a real finicky sob! :lol:


i was dubious about them as well, just going by the price!! seemed too cheap for the stuff to be any good.


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

ian222 said:


> Just something to note its fine if you run these on your car but if you sell these even for no profit then if they fail it Could cause a accident. I wouldnt sell or give these away if I was making them not worth the risk. They wont be tuv approved thats part of the cost of the kw or gorge bars.


Who says I'm selling these, I'm not, but as you no doubt know, TUV is not required in the UK anyway.


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

rodgerq said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > Quick update. Not happy with the screw jacks I received from Tyagi racing so sent them back - no where near the quality I'm after, so now having my own made to finish the job off properly.
> ...


Well they sell hundreds to the rally community and all it is two turned ends so it's not going to be expensive but I was disappointed with the level of precision.


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## ian222 (May 4, 2007)

keithtd said:


> . I'm not interested in making any for profit but if someone else can then that's fine with me.


Thought you meant you didnt mind making them for others just not making profit.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Keith thinking about it in a logical fashion (new for me I know) :lol: but what Ian says is actually correct in that if one failed and did cause an accident you would be liable bud. Also if picked up by an insurance assessor then it would be a no payout situ. Bearing in mind that police and insurance companies actively look at car forums maybe it needs looking at again on an official basis with tests and trials?


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

ian222 said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > . I'm not interested in making any for profit but if someone else can then that's fine with me.
> ...


Never said that at all, just said if someone wanted to know what I did I'd tell them, up to them if they had a go. Tbh in engineering terms they're pretty simple and engineered well beyond their loading so very unlikely to fail. I'd be more worried about putting aftermarket reps on your car, how many of those do you think are properly tested!?
Scenario - you're driving down the road with your new chinese reps hit the curb break a wheel shoot across the road and hit a Ferrari - who do you think will be liable? :wink:


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Gazzer said:


> Keith thinking about it in a logical fashion (new for me I know) :lol: but what Ian says is actually correct in that if one failed and did cause an accident you would be liable bud. Also if picked up by an insurance assessor then it would be a no payout situ. Bearing in mind that police and insurance companies actively look at car forums maybe it needs looking at again on an official basis with tests and trials?


As a company owner you should know how this stuff works Gary, it's not an issue. I take it I'll be going somewhere else for the inserts lol.


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## ian222 (May 4, 2007)

I am only saying Keith, the forge ones and kw have failed in the past. If one of yours goes on another persons car then it wont be nice.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

keithtd said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > Keith thinking about it in a logical fashion (new for me I know) :lol: but what Ian says is actually correct in that if one failed and did cause an accident you would be liable bud. Also if picked up by an insurance assessor then it would be a no payout situ. Bearing in mind that police and insurance companies actively look at car forums maybe it needs looking at again on an official basis with tests and trials?
> ...


Not saying that Keith, but my gate systems don't have the ability go going over a 100mph bud. Legislation on automation for gates is getting stricter yes, but compared with the car industry that is tied up so tights in legals and legislation. Just consider it ok please.


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Appreciate what you're saying but it's rather like saying "is that plane safe to fly in". The pilot would be the first person off the plane if he thought it was unsafe. If I thought my 30 years in engineering were not enough to be pretty sure that I'd be safe driving the car with these do you think I'd be installing them?
You may be aware that the OEM tie bars have known stress issues at one end which has caused failure but who knows under what circumstances these failed and they have been very rare. Who on here has ever had an OEM tie bar fail for example.
There are no guarantees in life and I take the position that if you're suitably qualified and not stupid about such things then have a go, it's called progress and what made us (once) a great nation - too wrapped up in if's buts and maybe's nowadays.
And don't think if you've got Public Liability Insurance that will automatically protect you!
I know, lets all sit at home and do nothing!
Rant over :lol:


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Gazzer said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > Gazzer said:
> ...


I appreciate what you're saying mate but if you think you're PLI will pay out if one of your big gates falls on someone because you've been negligent when installing it, think again.
That's a definite make my own inserts then. :wink:


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

ian222 said:


> I am only saying Keith, the forge ones and kw have failed in the past. If one of yours goes on another persons car then it wont be nice.


Are they OEM wheels you have there, no oh dear.


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## ian222 (May 4, 2007)

I am not having a go at you Keith, just making you aware. If I had some from you and they broke and I crashed the car because of it i would have the right hump with you. Yes I would have the hump with forge as well but seeing as they are home made from you, you would get the blame.


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## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

Surely if you fit them, it's your fault.

If auto parts require official approval - what approval is it ? What organisation ?
What approval do defcons have, for example ?

Another thing, people have been saying that tie bars break, but I haven't seen anyone saying that they caused any accidents.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

mullum said:


> Surely if you fit them, it's your fault.
> 
> If auto parts require official approval - what approval is it ? What organisation ?
> What approval do defcons have, for example ?
> ...


No it isn't in reality, if they are installed according to instructions then the installer is not at fault.


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

People you're blowing this failure thing right out of the park.
Ian you're obviously not an engineer - no insult intended. Don't forget these are used in rally cars which will undergo many more times the load you'll ever put on them. Under even rally conditions these tie bars are more than man enough and don't forget the adjuster is likely to bend first under shock load and, unlike the OEM tie bar, is unlikely to snap, thus giving you a better chance of not causing major damage. This is why they are used in rally cars so they don't put you out of the rally but allow you to get to the next stage.
You are over exaggerating things many fold and thinking the worse and thus falling into the hands of companies that charge £330 a set. If you're overly concerned pay your £330, I've built a few race cars in the past so not exactly new to this and am happy with what I'm doing.


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Gazzer said:


> mullum said:
> 
> 
> > Surely if you fit them, it's your fault.
> ...


Gary, imagine you fit some heavy gates with big bolts and one fails, the gate drops off and kills someone. According to your logic it's nothing to do with you you fitted the gates properly! well a bit of friendly advice they'll come after you, it's up to you to then go after the bolt supplier and so on and so on, we end up by saying the person who dug up the original ore is ultimately responsible - see where we're going - liability in business doesn't work like that mate.


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Just :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

good job,,,, i thot i had posted on this subject ages ago and mentioned that i had planed this job a couple of years ago, tho never getting round to doing it,, way back then i got shot down by the saftey brigade,,,, as usual , it is the people with the yellow vests and the saftey glasses who know nothing about the actual engineering involved,,,, tell them to go fk themselves ,they dont need to use your bars, they seem to forget that the branded ones are prob made up / welded by someone who has less than half of the engineering experience that you have,,,,, you can send me a set if you want tho


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## jaqcom (Apr 20, 2009)

Hi Folks,
Just out of interest Keith,............ I fitted some Eibach bars made to fit by simply reducing internal length (lathe)
The bars were intended for a Touring Car BMW ,(Through Geoff Steel Racing) this was a simply alteration and can never understand why Eibach have not done this to be able to list the TT as fitment. :roll:

P.S. I fitted my bars in the lower position rather than the more usual upper.............seems such a shame to hide such a great looking update 8)

http://www.pbase.com/jaqcom/image/124302994

Kind Regards D


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

roddy said:


> good job,,,, i thot i had posted on this subject ages ago and mentioned that i had planed this job a couple of years ago, tho never getting round to doing it,, way back then i got shot down by the saftey brigade,,,, as usual , it is the people with the yellow vests and the saftey glasses who know nothing about the actual engineering involved,,,, tell them to go fk themselves ,they dont need to use your bars, they seem to forget that the branded ones are prob made up / welded by someone who has less than half of the engineering experience that you have,,,,, you can send me a set if you want tho


It's easy to knock someone without having a clue you're talking about that's why they do it Roddy. Any numpty can tell you why and how not to do something! Thing is mate don't let them grind you down most of them will happily buy stuff from dealers without knowing a good percentage of parts will be made in some chop shop in the far east who don't give a toss about quality. These rally adjusters I bought and sent back were from a very reputable dealer but they were so bad it wasn't a joke - I wouldn't put them on my sideboard never mind my car! :wink:
And what are you laughing at Kal - me on my high horse against the Miss Doubtfires of this world no doubt.
Jaqcom - the reason for changing the upper tie bar is that when you change the lower one you can easily affect toe when adjusting, with the upper you're only changing the camber so easier to adjust yourself with even a basic camber gauge. The other thing is that you are pulling/pushing the top of the wheel with no resistance rather than trying to push/pull the bottom against the resistance of the tyre on the floor. :wink: 
The way I've designed the bars however means that they have just enough adjustment to be used in either position.


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

And what are you laughing at Kal - me on my high horse against the Miss Doubtfires of this world no doubt.

I'm laughing because someone has an idea but others seem to always instantly try and knock them back with bull poo legislations fookin rubbish mate. 
Your idea I excellent and from what I've been reading about forge tie bars and their failure!!! Their a huge company and that says a lot about their testing and safety of this product.

Good on you for getting where you have with these bars.
Yes you can complain to forge but it they may do is give you a new one.

What of these :?: :arrow: http://public.fotki.com/mcphill/audi_st ... g_soon_2!/


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## ian222 (May 4, 2007)

Like I have said I am not knocking what you are trying to do its good that you are trying to think of a way around the expensive item, good luck to you.

Its one thing designing something to sit on the bodywork or in the interior but when it comes to the suspension or brakes I personally would rather pay out for a known product.


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## Garth (Feb 7, 2012)

keithtd said:


> the reason for changing the upper tie bar is that when you change the lower one you can easily affect toe when adjusting, with the upper you're only changing the camber so easier to adjust yourself with even a basic camber gauge. The other thing is that you are pulling/pushing the top of the wheel with no resistance rather than trying to push/pull the bottom against the resistance of the tyre on the floor. :wink:


That's not quite correct mate. The hub will pivot around the centre since the tie bats are not at edge of the wheel, so if you pull in the top, the bottom of the wheel will push out. If you pull in the bottom, the top of the wheel will push out and vice versa.
The reason most people change the bottom is that it is easier because of access. Changing either top or bottom affects both chamber and toe. Which you should replace depends on what your toe is already. You can run out of adjustment on either top or bottom, I found with mine that there was slightly more adjustment on the bottom than top. This depends on your ride height and the length of the adjustable part of the bars.

Some have found that simply replacing the lower bars means they ended up with the toe being too far out in one direction so they've swapped to the top bar position and gone too far on the other direction. I managed to get my toe spot on with -1.5 degrees camber, lowered 40mm. The only way to guarantee you will get perfect toe settings is to replace both upper and lower bars. Most people get close enough with only one set though ;-)


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

ian222 said:


> Like I have said I am not knocking what you are trying to do its good that you are trying to think of a way around the expensive item, good luck to you.
> 
> Its one thing designing something to sit on the bodywork or in the interior but when it comes to the suspension or brakes I personally would rather pay out for a known product.


No problem with that at all, each to their own. Me I'd sooner be innovative, have a go and try something new rather than put posts on here saying my TT has passed it's MOT, I have new wheels or look at my new bling kit. Threads like Garth's for example are what it's all about, they're an inspriational. Have a go you'll be surprised at what you can do.
Tell you what I'd sooner have my tie bars than your reps at least I know how my tie bars have been made! Take a look at this:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=replic ... 80&bih=906


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

i would rather have parts of my suspension welded together by someone i knew and trusted rather than by some unknown from god knows where,, whether that be in birmingham or in bombay.. :?


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Garth said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > the reason for changing the upper tie bar is that when you change the lower one you can easily affect toe when adjusting, with the upper you're only changing the camber so easier to adjust yourself with even a basic camber gauge. The other thing is that you are pulling/pushing the top of the wheel with no resistance rather than trying to push/pull the bottom against the resistance of the tyre on the floor. :wink:
> ...


We'll have to agree to disagree, try this: put tie bars on bottom and push out (or pull in), put tie bars on top and push out (or pull in) see which is easier and more accurate i.e. when you've been for a whizz round the camber is still the same, see what you find.
Don't forget on top you also don't have the light level sensor issue which can be a pain in the bum. :wink:


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

What can happen when you tie bar fails or breaks: I've not put a new topic up as you you know what people on here are like but there must be members on here who have had failed broken tie bars?.

I shall start it off for you, when that prat took no due care or attention when pulling out on me and crashed into the rear right hand side alloy wheel which had broken the tie bar off the hub and from the pictures I did upload on the thread last year Nov you will notice the wheel has toed in from what I was also told. No tyre wear was visible felt better on going around corners IMO although I was worried something was going to drop off. 
Now I'm not saying I want broken tie bars but you get the gist.
Believe me when I say, I even did a 190mile motorway journey and back in this condition oops :roll:

Nothing dangerous about it so pure bull poo.
I'm really sorry if anyone gets offended by this but it's true facts. 
Kp


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

roddy said:


> i would rather have parts of my suspension welded together by someone i knew and trusted rather than by some unknown from god knows where,, whether that be in birmingham or in bombay.. :?


Not sure what you're implying Roddy but I agree, the people who are welding mine specialise in turbine blades for jet engines. :wink:


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

roddy said:


> i would rather have parts of my suspension welded together by someone i knew and trusted rather than by some unknown from god knows where,, whether that be in birmingham or in bombay.. :?


Excuse me mr, why have you brought up my home town brum not Bombay :lol:


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

oooops,, pardon me,, i have actually worked wiht some very fine welders from birmingham ( just couldnt understand a word they said !! ),,, 
and turbine blades ,,mmm they should know what they are doing ok....i expect most of their experience will be TIG


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

NOTE TO SAFETY BRIGADE - please don't read any more of this thread once the bars are finished, complete and on the car I'd hate to be responsible for any kind of concern and the cause of subsequent failing nerves, buy your Forge bars and be happy.
The rest of us will have interesting and informative times - bye bye it's been nice knowing you, now bugger off.


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

roddy said:


> oooops,, pardon me,, i have actually worked wiht some very fine welders from birmingham ( just couldnt understand a word they said !! ),,,
> and turbine blades ,,mmm they should know what they are doing ok....i expect most of their experience will be TIG


TIG welding of turbine blades - oh dear....


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

keithtd said:


> roddy said:
> 
> 
> > oooops,, pardon me,, i have actually worked wiht some very fine welders from birmingham ( just couldnt understand a word they said !! ),,,
> ...


Is arc weld stronger?.


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Kprincess said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > roddy said:
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

roddy said:


> oooops,, pardon me,, i have actually worked wiht some very fine welders from birmingham ( just couldnt understand a word they said !! ),,,
> and turbine blades ,,mmm they should know what they are doing ok....i expect most of their experience will be TIG


Oi you cheeky man, there are some of us tht actually speak clear fluent English you know 

Kp


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Keith me only asking as some garages say this.

I'm no expert okay


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

all electric welding is "arc" welding,,, mig tig and mma ( stick to you and me  ) different processes have different mechanical properties and other differences eg, speed , access ,suitability etc.... for your aplication my personel choice would be TIG as it is amuch more controlabe process for small pieces and also better for keeping the temperature down which will lessen any possability with distortion ( of the threaded area ),, interestingly, and a point which the yellow vest brigade might want to take note of is that most mass produced items are mig welded, that is because it is quicker , whereas have a look at most race cars or any other specialist units and they will mostly be tig welded


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Kprincess said:


> roddy said:
> 
> 
> > oooops,, pardon me,, i have actually worked wiht some very fine welders from birmingham ( just couldnt understand a word they said !! ),,,
> ...


och aye a ken the noooo... i did meet one once,, actually :wink:


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Horses for courses kal, for high quality weld e.g. turbine blades, laser is used (not your everyday welding technique). Much more common is TIG then MIG for high quality welds and then arc and gas for more common applications. There are many others but as I say depends what you want. Mine are going to be TIG welded.


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

roddy said:


> all electric welding is "arc" welding,,, mig tig and mma ( stick to you and me  ) different processes have different mechanical properties and other differences eg, speed , access ,suitability etc.... for your aplication my personel choice would be TIG as it is amuch more controlabe process for small pieces and also better for keeping the temperature down which will lessen any possability with distortion ( of the threaded area ),, interestingly, and a point which the yellow vest brigade might want to take note of is that most mass produced items are mig welded, that is because it is quicker , whereas have a look at most race cars or any other specialist units and they will mostly be tig welded


lol you beat me to it mate.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

mmmm never done the laser  ,,,,,,,,,,,, TIG is the daddy 8)


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

roddy said:


> all electric welding is "arc" welding,,, mig tig and mma ( stick to you and me  ) different processes have different mechanical properties and other differences eg, speed , access ,suitability etc.... for your aplication my personel choice would be TIG as it is amuch more controlabe process for small pieces and also better for keeping the temperature down which will lessen any possability with distortion ( of the threaded area ),, interestingly, and a point which the yellow vest brigade might want to take note of is that most mass produced items are mig welded, that is because it is quicker , whereas have a look at most race cars or any other specialist units and they will mostly be tig welded


Learn something new everyday


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

keithtd said:


> Horses for courses kal, for high quality weld e.g. turbine blades, laser is used (not your everyday welding technique). Much more common is TIG then MIG for high quality welds and then arc and gas for more common applications. There are many others but as I say depends what you want. Mine are going to be TIG welded.


Rather you then me :wink:


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

cant help my self !!  ,,if i am not doing it i am talking about it ,,, i get the weekend off and still going on about it [smiley=bomb.gif]


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Laser is for mainly automated applications of very high value objects Roddy where weld integrity is paramount. Only seen it once at RR engines, very impressive but sounds like you probably know more about it than me.


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## oldguy (Jun 25, 2009)

Autogenous TIG? :?:


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

:-*


roddy said:


> Kprincess said:
> 
> 
> > roddy said:
> ...


Is that Japanese roddy for you met one once [smiley=book2.gif]

There are many but you'll only ever meet the fockers in your profession


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

good chance,, my proff is fool of all types of fookers !!!


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

oldguy said:


> Autogenous TIG? :?:


mmm yes,, that must be someone whe is clever with cars


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

roddy said:


> good chance,, my proff is fool of all types of fookers !!!


In all professions :lol:


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Excuse me can we get back on topic please. :x


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## oldguy (Jun 25, 2009)

roddy said:


> oldguy said:
> 
> 
> > Autogenous TIG? :?:
> ...


Thick with cars......

Just in stainless fabrication.....not read all post, is Keith using duplex or even lean duplex for the materials ? :wink:


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## Garth (Feb 7, 2012)

keithtd said:


> NOTE TO SAFETY BRIGADE - please don't read any more of this thread once the bars are finished, complete and on the car I'd hate to be responsible for any kind of concern and the cause of subsequent failing nerves, buy your Forge bars and be happy.
> The rest of us will have interesting and informative times - bye bye it's been nice knowing you, now bugger off.


:grin:
Well said


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

oldguy said:


> roddy said:
> 
> 
> > oldguy said:
> ...


super duplex :lol:


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## oldguy (Jun 25, 2009)

Now we're just getting geeky (& competative).....it'll be moved to off topic.... :wink:


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

oldguy said:


> roddy said:
> 
> 
> > oldguy said:
> ...


Not using stainless.


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## ian222 (May 4, 2007)

keithtd said:


> ian222 said:
> 
> 
> > Like I have said I am not knocking what you are trying to do its good that you are trying to think of a way around the expensive item, good luck to you.
> ...


Fuck off fella I dont know why you keep saying about my replica wheels, I havent got replica wheels.


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

Even genuine Rimstock's can fail. _Ask jack._ [smiley=bigcry.gif]
_If you drive them hard enough!_  
http://www.rimstock.co.uk/


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Don't understand the rude reaction to Ian's quite valid points but then again it is Keithy you seems incapable of dealing with any negative or constructive comments :roll:


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## ian222 (May 4, 2007)

jamman said:


> Don't understand the rude reaction to Ian's quite valid points but then again it is Keithy you seems incapable of dealing with any negative or constructive comments :roll:


Thank you.


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Gone a few hours and all hell breaks out 

He's made tie bars you've commented and that's that...
boys with toys need to grow up and be a little more gentle in your approach to your sarcastic comments  
Some are good an some aren't.
The more the comments the more retaliation and aggression so is it necessary boys?. Who's better than who with you lit and I makes me flipping :lol: :lol:

Those wheels whether gen or not make no difference as monkey man has shown. Nice monkey :wink:

Keith jut forget it mate, you've done we'll and got yourself a pair of own made bars that dont break the bank now get them on and give us some feedback as to tyre wear ETC Please 

Kp


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

ian222 said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > ian222 said:
> ...


Who said you had replica wheels I didn't, I was just saying that many people are happy to put them on their car without knowing how safe they are and don't receive comments from people like you but soon as you see someone trying something new out comes the negative attitude. You haven't anything positive to say because you're an ignoramus so you get your kicks from being negative all the time. Why you keep coming back to this thread I don't know, as I said earlier nice to meet you bye bye, go and post up pictures of your new bling kit or something I'm sure lots of people will be very interested. Genesis 1:22. :?


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

What a dick


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

jamman said:


> Don't understand the rude reaction to Ian's quite valid points but then again it is Keithy you seems incapable of dealing with any negative or constructive comments :roll:


What has Ian said that is in any way constructive mate?


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

He was warning of the possible problems you might face if you made these for other people's cars and suggested you look into it.....

at which point

you went off the deep end


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

I think ian222 took offence to this 

you're driving down the road with your new chinese reps hit the curb break a wheel shoot across the road and hit a Ferrari - who do you think will be liable


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

That was just an example Kal I wasn't inferring anything about his particular car, which I might add looks very nice, but to be honest I'm past giving a care what way he took it.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Of course you weren't make sure you employ a sales/PR person or you will be fucked lol


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

jamman said:


> He was warning of the possible problems you might face if you made these for other people's cars and suggested you look into it.....
> 
> at which point
> 
> you went off the deep end


I have specifically said I will not be making them for anyone else, its just a private project, so why even bring it up - because he has nothing else to add that's why and I don't know who this guy deals with on a day to day basis but stating the obvious is hardly being helpful bit like your first comment if I remember correctly, something like "good job, now lets see if they stand up in time".


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

keithtd said:


> That was just an example Kal I wasn't inferring anything about his particular car, which I might add looks very nice, but to be honest I'm past giving a care what way he took it.


 "meant implying" :?:


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

jamman said:


> Of course you weren't make sure you employ a sales/PR person or you will be fucked lol


Why would I want a pr/sales person?


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

That's your whole problem Keith you take things the wrong way read the post or even better get someone else to and ask their opinion, I do think they look well made and I will be interested in how they hold up.

I think you have done a good job I just think you react badly


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Kprincess said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > That was just an example Kal I wasn't inferring anything about his particular car, which I might add looks very nice, but to be honest I'm past giving a care what way he took it.
> ...


As I've said I was talking about all those people driving with reps, if he took personally tough titty, pretty silly thing to think really as I have no idea if he has reps or not so how could I have meant him?
He does share a couple of skills with Jamman however, not reading the thread properly and stating the obvious.


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

jamman said:


> That's your whole problem Keith you take things the wrong way read the post or even better get someone else to and ask their opinion, I do think they look well made and I will be interested in how they hold up.
> 
> I think you have done a good job I just think you react badly


Criticism and opinion I have no problem with at all, what I don't suffer gladly are people who can't be bothered to read the thread properly, start insinuating things that are quite wrong and round it off by being negative about someone who is simply trying to do something different and maybe help one or two on the way.

This topic has had nearly 1600 views and I would hope mostly from people not interested one iota in the smart arsed comments going backwards and forwards but in how the project is going. I would add I've had several PM's supporting what I'm doing and can they have a set. Unfortunately I won't be selling any even though I'm making three sets - now there's a question - why may you ask. :wink:


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

keithtd said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > That's your whole problem Keith you take things the wrong way read the post or even better get someone else to and ask their opinion, I do think they look well made and I will be interested in how they hold up.
> ...


That's where they have n issue :!: you wanting to help a few on the way as if they fail and someone dies then what?.

I don't really care what you do as it has flip all to do with me but some are stating the safety aspect of these own made ones.

Be good and guys WT flip chill the F down


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## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

As a follower and participant of the thread from the start, I'm hopeful that you will go on to make more than one set


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

mullum said:


> As a follower and participant of the thread from the start, I'm hopeful that you will go on to make more than one set


+1


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

I don't mean helping by supplying Kal but many are thinking of this and no doubt will also have a go. If I can help stop them making a mistake or possibly getting into trouble then I'd be a bit of a shit if I didn't help. You never know the help might be after all this to say don't do it - but I doubt it.


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## ian222 (May 4, 2007)

keithtd said:


> ian222 said:
> 
> 
> > Like I have said I am not knocking what you are trying to do its good that you are trying to think of a way around the expensive item, good luck to you.
> ...


Last thing from me and I will leave the thread alone. You did stat here at the bottom of your comment about my so called reps.


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

keithtd said:


> I don't mean helping by supplying Kal but many are thinking of this and no doubt will also have a go. If I can help stop them making a mistake or possibly getting into trouble then I'd be a bit of a shit if I didn't help. You never know the help might be after all this to say don't do it - but I doubt it.


Form what I can see of the pics they look as good as the forge OE black ones they made but their error was putting the adjuster in the middle where as your ones will be to one side which I'm sur ewill be better.
I'm sure Forge ones were being sold on fleebay a few weeks back but now they have updated ones where the adjuster is to one end 

Good luck with it and hurry up :lol:


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

ian222 said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > ian222 said:
> ...


Ok I'm big enough to stand corrected Ian for which I apologise.


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

ian222 said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > ian222 said:
> ...


I was looking for that one  

I prefer ian222's BBS beasties  although them are nice too... :wink:


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

keithtd said:


> mullum said:
> 
> 
> > There's a set of "DIY" adjustable tie bars on eBay at the moment :
> ...


Errrr you keep stating you are not supplying them to anyone, read your own words Keith :roll: this infers you may well be supplying them if it succeeds.


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Lol, no ones getting any Gazzer I was talking about how to make them. If you wanted to know what I did then I'd be happy to tell people but I wasn't going to tell you after calling me a mindless dork - but I forgive you. :lol: 
Anyway you then PM'd me offering to make them you back stabber. :?
I am however making 3 sets but for that's for other reasons. :-*


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

keithtd said:


> Lol, no ones getting any Gazzer I was talking about how to make them. If you wanted to know what I did then I'd be happy to tell people but I wasn't going to tell you - only joking. :lol:
> Anyway you PM'd me offering to make them you back stabber. :?
> I am however making 3 sets but for that's for other reasons. :-*


 :lol: :lol:


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Kprincess said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, no ones getting any Gazzer I was talking about how to make them. If you wanted to know what I did then I'd be happy to tell people but I wasn't going to tell you - only joking. :lol:
> ...


I can't win Kal, one minute I'm a numpty the next they're offering to make them. wtf? :lol:


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

keithtd said:


> Kprincess said:
> 
> 
> > keithtd said:
> ...


Maybe not,
but you're going to go down fighting! :roll:


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

keithtd said:


> Kprincess said:
> 
> 
> > keithtd said:
> ...


Hypocrisy two faced :? All that Keith, you better off not replying Pm sent well nearly


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

What's monkey man "implying" :wink:


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

It'll be on my gravestone Skee "Never said never and never went down without a fight" :lol: :lol:


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

keithtd said:


> It'll be on my gravestone Skeee "Never said never and never went down without a fight" :lol: :lol:


 Hopefully not too soon after fitting the new tie bars!!   

_BTW what do tie bars actually do? And don't say
"they're a bar that ties one end of the chassis to another, but that's not important right now! :lol: _


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Skeee said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > It'll be on my gravestone Skeee "Never said never and never went down without a fight" :lol: :lol:
> ...


Tie bars come in upper and lower designs for most cars that have unibody and independent suspension. They are primarily aftermarket parts, with the exception of vehicles like the Honda Integra and the Civic Type-R models, where they come as standard component applications. Tie bars are made by several manufacturers, available for front upper and lower and rear upper and lower applications. Each model vehicle has particular mounting instructions, but in all cases the tie bars connect the same main suspension or frame components for the purposes of reducing flex and stretch of the chassis body.


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

So you do know "Copy & Paste" then Princess! :lol:

So they're just a chassis stiffener then?


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Skeee said:


> So you do know "Copy & Paste" then Princess! :lol:
> 
> So they're just a chassis stiffener then?


Lol copy paste yups :wink:

They not only stiffen them, when you lower the suspension more than 30mm the toe goes out I think? And these help adjust the toe or is it :?

http://www.carsdirect.com/aftermarket-p ... advantages


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

huh !!! they dont stiffen the chasis at all :? ,, they hold the wheels in the correct place


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

Thanks Roddy.
_You obviously typed that, and didn't copy and paste it like the bad Princess. _


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

you are welcome,,,i wouldnt know how to cut and paste :?


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

roddy said:


> huh !!! they dont stiffen the chasis at all :? ,, they hold the wheels in the correct place


Beg to differ mate, tie bars are not just to hold the wheels in place they also stiffen the suspension arm and the car generally, Kal was in fact correct. :wink:


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

keithtd said:


> ....Beg to differ mate, tie bars are not just to hold the wheels in place they also stiffen the suspension arm and the car generally, *Kal *was in fact correct. :wink:


 Well, the extract that Kal copied and pasted from was, perhaps?


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Skeee said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > ....Beg to differ mate, tie bars are not just to hold the wheels in place they also stiffen the suspension arm and the car generally, *Kal *was in fact correct. :wink:
> ...


I don't know where she looked but it was correct and I guess she is just trying to help and educate herself at the same time which you have to take your hat off to.


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Skeee said:


> Thanks Roddy.
> _You obviously typed that, and didn't copy and paste it like the bad Princess. _


I was on me phone so couldn't be Asked you bad bad bad monkey :lol:


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

keithtd said:


> roddy said:
> 
> 
> > huh !!! they dont stiffen the chasis at all :? ,, they hold the wheels in the correct place
> ...


Thank you Keith, I read this and saved it to my favorites as I knew someone would try a smarty arse so was ready to send :lol:


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

keithtd said:


> ..........................which you have to take your hat off to.


Hat?!

I ain't that old!


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Skeee said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > ....Beg to differ mate, tie bars are not just to hold the wheels in place they also stiffen the suspension arm and the car generally, *Kal *was in fact correct. :wink:
> ...


My favorites bar :lol: :lol: :lol:
And yes again to educating me self on this subject for now [smiley=computer.gif]


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Skeee said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > ..........................which you have to take your hat off to.
> ...


Old enough :wink: 40+ I reakon :roll:


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)




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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

well hoping not to sound like a smarty pants, in the traditional meaning of the term these cars do not have a chassis at all, they are monocoque...oo   ps


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Skeee said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > ..........................which you have to take your hat off to.
> ...


You might not be but I am. [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Truth hurts babe :-*

Guessing I was right - he's answer say's it all :lol:

UP :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

yours monkey

:lol:


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## westcoTT (Aug 30, 2009)

These tie bars are a great idea, its a bloody shame you`re not going to produce them too.

If you change your mind that would be great.


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## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

Get a room you two ! :lol:


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

mullum said:


> Get a room you two ! :lol:


Think our skeee has gone to have a good sulk in the corner


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

Kprincess said:


> mullum said:
> 
> 
> > Get a room you two ! :lol:
> ...


Watching FG!


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Skeee said:


> Kprincess said:
> 
> 
> > mullum said:
> ...


Don't believe him you guy's as he's actually obsessed and stalking me :lol:

I don't live in birmingham really :-|

Only teasing skeee ... just remember what goes around comes back around :-*


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

mullum said:


> Get a room you two ! :lol:


Ewww!


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Skeee said:


> mullum said:
> 
> 
> > Get a room you two ! :lol:
> ...


He's in denial


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

Kprincess said:


> Only teasing skeee ... just remember what goes around comes back around :-*


Very true!

Here's my dinner!


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

Kprincess said:


> He's in denial


True again! Am denying everything!


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Skeee said:


> Kprincess said:
> 
> 
> > Only teasing skeee ... just remember what goes around comes back around :-*
> ...


:lol: :lol: :lol: keep it it's yours 

Fast & furious 6 is out [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif]

no one told me :x


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

keithtd said:


> Lol, no ones getting any Gazzer I was talking about how to make them. If you wanted to know what I did then I'd be happy to tell people but I wasn't going to tell you after calling me a mindless dork - but I forgive you. :lol:
> Anyway you then PM'd me offering to make them you back stabber. :?
> I am however making 3 sets but for that's for other reasons. :-*


Keith once again you are incorrect bud, you pm'd me not me you? And asked if I would be interested in making the inserts. I responded by saying chuck some details over and I will have a look via e-mail :roll: so once again you are posting incorrect facts m8ee.

Princess if you sit on the fence much more you will have such big splinters in your bum that you won't get out ever. So copy and pasting before YOU know the actual facts is boring tbh like most of your many threads per day.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Gary
Can you confirm that you're not up for making those inserts I sent by email.
Cheers
Keith

Here is your last pm to me Keith, that ensures that I am telling the truth on this.

In response I can get anything made tbh if required by a client. I think I have only ever charged two people on here for work done and that was James and flash. Most people get work done my end because I like them and I can do it and it pleases me to do that sort of thing.

So Keith in answer to your pm, no thanks I will not be doing your inserts even though I have sourced prices for hundreds off.
Hope it goes well and I will happily eat my hat if they are vosa legal. Atb gazz


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Inserts
Sent: 15 May 2013, 10:06 
From: keithtd 
To: Gazzer

Gazzer
If you're interested in doing something you can get involved if you want. I'm looking at the inserts to go inside the tie bars that the screw jack fits into. I've done mine but have an idea that will work even better. If you're up for supplying some you can have all the info to make these things free of charge and supply yourself. There seems to be plenty of demand but I'm no longer in engineering and haven't the time to get involved other than as a pass time.
If you're interested let me know and I'll give you the details although I've already had the company I buy the screw jacks from on the phone asking to get involved but as they charged me for all the bits to see if this lot worked and when it did only then phoned, fuck 'em. Excuse the language.
Cheers
Keith
2011 Audi TT Quattro s-Tronic Black Edition and 2002 Audi TT 225

That is YOUR initial pm to me not me to you.......it is early and about to go and open the factory up but you get the gist of it.....you lied in saying I pm'd you lol


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Gazzer said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, no ones getting any Gazzer I was talking about how to make them. If you wanted to know what I did then I'd be happy to tell people but I wasn't going to tell you after calling me a mindless dork - but I forgive you. :lol:
> ...


There you have it folks, the man is Threatening me [smiley=stop.gif]

Another women hater no doubt  >>>

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=330157


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Gazzer said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, no ones getting any Gazzer I was talking about how to make them. If you wanted to know what I did then I'd be happy to tell people but I wasn't going to tell you after calling me a mindless dork - but I forgive you. :lol:
> ...


Apologies for that you're correct you didn't pm me you actually made the offer in this thread see page 3 mate. It reads:

"Keith i know i gave you a tad of grief on the original post......appologies for that, no am not after any lol. they need some locking nuts of some sort or will just vibrate loose. if it is just cutting and shutting an oem pm me whet it costs and if i can produce them cheaper i will give you a shout."

I then pm'd you as requested and asked if you want to get involved in making some inserts. What you have copied above are all AFTER your offer, so what you're implying in all this is pretty shitty mate, trying to cover your own ass by only putting up half the information. You should be a politician.
Lets see if you're big enough to say sorry and YOU are just being an a***hole.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

keithtd said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > keithtd said:
> ...


Keith i just don't get you tbh, say sorry for what? you said i pm'd you and i have proved you wrong and i need to say sorry?
lmao BUMPED YA FIRKIN HEAD FELLA i think. James is 100% correct in his assumption of you.... (cannot take any criticism)


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

What a surprise Gazzer not big enough.
You might think that you and James represent the majority view on this, ask the mods to tell you about the pm's I've got, they are all without exception positive and supportive on this. You see you're just a couple of poor losers who have to refer to each other for support.
By the way, I've been asked to price up 2000 sets (as you no doubt know they fit several cars), that's what the third set are for, a test pair for the buyer who will have them independently tested. That's why when YOU asked if YOU could possibly supply I pm'd you about the inserts. Everything else at that point had been sourced and costed I just needed a supplier and a price for them. I was happy to help out a fellow member, why not. As you didn't reply the order will go elsewhere.
FYI the unit price is estimated at £4.75/insert. Four inserts per set and 2000 sets. Do the maths mate, not your best decision was it.
PS just in case you haven't got a calculator to hand that's £38,000 of business you've just lost.
If anyone else in this forum would be interested please let me know, if not it'll go out to tender.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

Keith you should really be careful when you start throwing insults about.

As I said before looks well made so good luck with it and hope it passes the tests with flying colours.

How the fuck that makes me a poor loser is beyond me but carry on by all means if it makes you happy.


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

Kprincess said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > Keith once again you are incorrect bud, you pm'd me not me you? And asked if I would be interested in making the inserts. I responded by saying chuck some details over and I will have a look via e-mail :roll: so once again you are posting incorrect facts m8ee. Princess if you sit on the fence much more you will have such big splinters in your bum that you won't get out ever. So copy and pasting before YOU know the actual facts is boring tbh like most of your many threads per day.
> ...


That's not a threat Princess.
If anything, he's showing concern that you don't get any unwanted pricks in yer bum! 
Quite considerate really after all the goading you do!








If you want to know what a threat is read my PM!        
:lol:


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

jamman said:


> Keith you should really be careful when you start throwing insults about.
> 
> As I said before looks well made so good luck with it and hope it passes the tests with flying colours.
> 
> How the fuck that makes me a poor loser is beyond me but carry on by all means if it makes you happy.


They are well made Jamman but not because I've made them, the people who did know their stuff. Hopefully they will pass tbh I've no idea how they're going to test them but thats up to them.
Point is in all this I tried something new that if successful could possibly benefit us all. One or two on here have offered little by way of encouragement only 'ah but this' and 'ah but that' which, as you may guess, gets on my pip. I've even had one person call me a 'mindless dork' one minute, ask if he could a supplier the next and then try to twist the truth to make himself not look the dip stick he is. The only reason I continue with this is that despite what appears on this thread these few are in the majority with the vast majority not only supporting me but also asking if I would change my mind and supply them, which was never the intention.
After being contacted by a distributor that may or may not change but in thinking about it i replied to Gazzer request in a positive manner, possibly putting £40k worth of business his way and I get all this. Having said that one or two party poopers won't put me off, I just wish they'd not bother with the thread and go rattle someones else's cage.
The comments made to Kal are also out of order and I must admit to being surprised the mods think this is fine and don't have a word or two, they certainly should.


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

keithtd said:


> ...............One or two on here have offered little by way of encouragement only 'ah but this' and 'ah but that' which, as you may guess, gets on my pip.........................


We have noticed Keith. :wink:


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## rodgerq (Mar 7, 2012)

keithtd said:


> Garth said:
> 
> 
> > keithtd said:
> ...


i made this wee inset out of nylon to get round the compbrake arm shape difference to standard

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fm8c7osnbbw0x ... 143919.jpg

seems to be doin the trick.


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Skeee said:


> Kprincess said:
> 
> 
> > Gazzer said:
> ...


Hmmm the monkey has spoken :x
Too many pr**** on here by the looks :-|


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

keithtd said:


> jamman said:
> 
> 
> > Keith you should really be careful when you start throwing insults about.
> ...


  that's a lot if money


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Skeee said:


> keithtd said:
> 
> 
> > ...............One or two on here have offered little by way of encouragement only 'ah but this' and 'ah but that' which, as you may guess, gets on my pip.........................
> ...


Monkey has spoken once again  [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=mexicanwave.gif]


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

Kprincess said:


> that's a lot if money


 A lot if bananas too! :lol:


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Good job Rodger, it looks like a great solution.


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

It is a lot of money Kal, most of it's labour and Gazzer has just waved good bye to it. :wink:


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Skeee said:


> Kprincess said:
> 
> 
> > that's a lot if money
> ...


Yes very much so BUT as you can see where this thread has gone and going but good on Keith for sticking to what's right as its an excellent venture that will maybe even take other companies business away I hate to say but that competition for you and why people [smiley=argue.gif] and not on this side of the wall :wink:

Me


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

keithtd said:


> It is a lot of money Kal, most of it's labour and Gazzer has just waved good bye to it. :wink:


Wish I had that knowledge and those type of contacts.
You go for it and don't let anyone try to tell you otherwise


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## jaqcom (Apr 20, 2009)

This used to be such a friendly forum  ...................why is everyone so 'touchy'  
Come on guys and girls........don't loose sight of our joint love of our cars and how great friendships have emerged from this forum, its so sad to read angst ..............deep breath and relax 8) 
Hope to catch up with you at a meet sometime............Jaqcom


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## dazzadrew1 (Feb 6, 2010)

Keith

I would be interested in quoting these parts for you  our precision engineering company could turn these around if the price is right for you..

Let me know if your looking for a manufacturer , I can give you some details ,

We already produce very similar parts for our own products


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

dazzadrew1 said:


> Keith
> 
> I would be interested in quoting these parts for you  our precision engineering company could turn these around if the price is right for you..
> 
> ...


PM'd


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## dazzadrew1 (Feb 6, 2010)

E mail for drawing to be sent to PM d


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

All settled and the forum is happy again :roll:

Or was it the other way round [smiley=gossip.gif]

Like it or not, that's life :lol:


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

keithtd said:


> It is a lot of money Kal, most of it's labour and Gazzer has just waved good bye to it. :wink:


Keith I mean this in all honesty bud, I hope it works out for you and my hope is that it turns out to be the latest and greatest on the market m8ee. Atb gazz


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## jaqcom (Apr 20, 2009)

Praise the lord...................... :roll:


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## Skeee (Jun 9, 2009)

But I'm an atheist! :?


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## Kprincess (Aug 19, 2012)

Skeee said:


> But I'm an atheist! :?


Say's it all :lol:


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Jack screws finally arrived from America and initial assembly shows a fantastic fit of all parts and super strong. Very pleased with how they have turned out. I'll post some pics in the next couple of days, hopefully they'll be on over the weekend.  :wink:


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## ©hatterBox (Aug 10, 2010)

keithtd said:


> Jack screws finally arrived from America and initial assembly shows a fantastic fit of all parts and super strong. Very pleased with how they have turned out. I'll post some pics in the next couple of days, hopefully they'll be on over the weekend.  :wink:


Good news Keith. Looking forward to the pics & write up


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## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

Aye, good to hear ;-)


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Oh and no weaker stainless in sight.


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## JoshyTT (Apr 27, 2013)

you can try them on mine too i wont charge you :roll:


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## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

Keith I know you're not a fan of poly bushes, but could they (theoretically ;-) ) be fitted to these bars you're making ?


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

mullum said:


> Keith I know you're not a fan of poly bushes, but could they (theoretically ;-) ) be fitted to these bars you're making ?


It's not that I'm not a fan Stephen but for everyday use I wanted the softer, more comfortable ride but if you want they can certainly be changed, as they are based on brand new OEM bars you'd need to simply replace the bushes with poly ones - easy.


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## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

Oh right, so the same size bushes as OEM, cool.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

keithtd said:


> Jack screws finally arrived from America and initial assembly shows a fantastic fit of all parts and super strong. Very pleased with how they have turned out. I'll post some pics in the next couple of days, hopefully they'll be on over the weekend.  :wink:


ahh so the pieces of the jigsaw coming together keith top man!!!


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Made five sets and a great friend had his last night put them on his car and went off to a track day today and rock solid. Sitting here looking at mine and it's pi*&^ing it down outside. [smiley=bigcry.gif]


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

keithtd said:


> Made five sets and a great friend had his last night put them on his car and went off to a track day today and rock solid. Sitting here looking at mine and it's pi*&^ing it down outside. [smiley=bigcry.gif]


WTF!!! he obviously has full faith in your engineering skills to fit them and then go tracking bud lol.


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## keithtd (Aug 22, 2007)

Here's a picture of my new tie bars. One is a standard OEM tie bar from which they're made, one showing two parts and jack screw and one showing assembled.
Just got to wait for the rain to stop and put them on.


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## Garth (Feb 7, 2012)

They look rather neat, well done. I hope they hold up for you and prove to be a big success


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## mullum (Sep 16, 2011)

Look good - wont be any problem fitting the headlight levelling sensor on those bad boys (-;


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Yes they look the business ,,,,,,, if perchance you find that you have a spare set lying around could you be persuaded to sell them on , without obligation of course


----------

