# Cam follower - check interval



## Essexaviator (Jan 10, 2012)

Lots of discussion on when you should the cam follower. 
My car is 2.0 TSFI and ten years old and done 42k when should I check the cam follower?
Thanks
Steve


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, Some state check at 25K & replace at 50k miles.Max
Hoggy.


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## Essexaviator (Jan 10, 2012)

Cheers

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Barr_end (Oct 19, 2016)

For the sake of the 15 minutes the job takes, it's worth checking and for only £30 worth having a spare sat around for replacement


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## Jasonl (Mar 31, 2018)

Ordered mine today from cardiff audi with oring £44 get it done when its dry


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

Couple of things that might help -

*(1)* VW Audi 2.0T FSI, How to (DIY) Check the Cam Follower, Replace the Fuel Pump and Convert to Studs -

*Audi 2.0T FSI - How to (DIY) Check the Cam Follower*





*(2)* TSB on cam lobe excessive wear. For whatever reason, it only addresses the Audi A3, A4 and A4 Cabriolet 2005-2007. But is specific for the 2.0 TFSI Engine. Even if it's not applicable to the TT, it has a good picture of wear patterns on the cam follower.
View attachment ENGINE - MIL on P2293 in ECM - Cam Lobe High Pressure Fuel Pump.pdf

*(3)* Previous post on this topic -

*2.0T BPY cam follower/lobe wear - 116,000km*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=656258


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## Jasonl (Mar 31, 2018)

Just took mine apart and ive got the pipe not the banjo bolt so will be 10mins work.once it arrives tommorow..


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## Essexaviator (Jan 10, 2012)

SwissJetPilot said:


> Couple of things that might help -
> 
> (1) VW Audi 2.0T FSI, How to (DIY) Check the Cam Follower, Replace the Fuel Pump and Convert to Studs -
> 
> ...


Thanks for that just got a set of studs from the states. Will fit them and change bucket.
Steve


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## Wolvez (Jun 22, 2018)

The Flat Tappet/Cam Follower is paired and mated with the camshaft. Replacing it requires break-in using Zinc rich Non-Synthetic Oil and molybdenum disulfide assembly lube. Search Flat Tappet break-in procedure.

The Cam Follower and Timing chain will never wear out if you don't "DRY START" the engine every oil filter change. Always bleed air and build up oil pressure before starting the engine. Next time you change your oil and oil filter try counting how many revolutions it takes before the filter gets filled with oil. It will take several more revolution before oil start squirting at head. [smiley=book2.gif]


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

Worth a watch....Recommended maintenance at 20,000 miles. This video also covers the correct cam position prior to installation of the Cam Follower, using assembly lubricant and installing an updated (Rev K) Thrust Sensor. To get the cam in the correct orientation (flat spot) you can turning the engine from the crankshaft bolt. Make sure you only turn it clockwise.


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

Here's another video from Charles the Humble Mechanic on how these fail -

*How The VW 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump HPFP Fails*





I've also linked a stud kit (shown below) to make regular replacement easier - 
https://www.shopdap.com/Search/stud%20kit


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## Iceblue (Jul 20, 2018)

Thanks Swiss and excellent info as always. About to have a service and thanks to the forum have picked this up as something I need to do as could not tell from the log book whether it has been done. Sitting at 93,000 kms so could be on its last legs.


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## Wolvez (Jun 22, 2018)

SwissJetPilot said:


> Here's another video from Charles the Humble Mechanic on how these fail.


If the pump or follower is bad you will see a big fluctuating fuel rail pressure (actual) at idle.

Charles the Terrible Mechanic is a SALESMAN prentending to be a mechanic. He never even do a proper diagnosis how cam follower fail. Almost all engine on the early 90's use FLAT TAPPET/Cam Follower on each & every valves but they don't need periodic replacement.

There is only 3 reason why the flat tappet is wearing out
1. Leak in the Vacuum Pump sucking dirt. 
2. Dry Starting the engine every oil & filter change
3. Listening to Charles

Once you replace it you will need to keep replacing it more often to prevent it from failing if you don't do the proper break-in procedure for flat cam follower.


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

@ Wolvez - Given Audi intentionally chose not to tell anyone about replacing the Haldex filter or cleaning the strainer on the pump, and having Borg Warner (the Haldex manufacturer) confirmed through a personal email to me that it does have one and it should be replaced, who do you think I'm going to listen to; Charles or the technician at the local Audi Service Center who didn't even know the Haldex had a filter?

Consider that I've had to explain to two separate Audi Service centers; (1) how to repair my convertible top (2) that the Haldex actually has a filter. From my personal experience, Audi technicians are there to do one thing, replace the parts without any understanding of why it failed or how to prevent it from happening in the future. That is not part of Audi's service center business model.

I think it's a bit unfair to judge Charles based on the merits of his videos unless you've have actually had personal experience or suffered some ill fate because he screwed up your car or you did something he recommended and it caused a problem. If this is the case, then by all means, please share your experience.

On the other hand, if people are taking his advice and avoiding costly repairs by doing simple DIY repairs he shows people how to do themselves, then would you agree his advice is sound and worth listening to?

If I followed Audi's maintenance recommendation, I've have a ruined Haldex and some of us would have ruined pumps and cam shafts.

So ask yourself, who do you think I'm going to listen to;

A. Charles, who can clearly and logically explain why parts fail and how to replace them.

- or -

B. The guys at Audi who are intentionally not telling me to replace a 50-Euro part which will result in a 3,000-Euro repair bill at some point in the future.

The correct answer is "A".

By the way, Charles and Paul at DAP also did an excellent set of videos explaining why the chain tensioner fails, how to inspect it, and even how to replace it. I'm still waiting for Audi to ring me up and offer to make good on it. And please, done't get me started on window regulators, door locks, etc, etc.

One last note, these two videos are worth a watch. Seems other people besides Charles have the exact same opinion and recommendation -











Or you can do what Audi recommends and don't do anything until it wipes out your cam -






.


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## Wolvez (Jun 22, 2018)

The reason why car manufacturers and mechanics want you to change oil frequently is because biggest wear on the engine occurs during startup after oil and filter change.

Startup Speed- 1k RPM = 16 revolution per second

Oil is pump to the bearing on the cam, crank and turbo to prevent them making metal to metal contact and to absorb heat. If you don't use the starter to fillup the oil filter and to build up oil pressure the engine will make several revolution without oil.

The most important fluid that needs to be replace frequently is coolant because it's conductive and the cooling system is made of dissimilar metals.
Electrolyte + Dissimilar metal = Galvanic Corrosion

Coolant is getting more conductive to eat more magnesium, zinc and aluminum.


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

@ Wolvez - You are absolutely right about oil changes and the issue of wear. No question. You also make a very good point about coolant. But if you go and check the Audi Maintenance Schedule and read what it says about how often it should be replaced, you'll find it's not mentioned. The only comment is "Cooling System - check level, add if necessary". Now wouldn't you'd think a 10-year old engine with 90K might need a coolant flush? Evidently Audi doesn't think so.

Back to the cam issue. This is a well known problem which Audi even acknowledged in a TSB (see attached) back in 2007. The cam follower is not a "lifetime" part, and should be periodically inspected and if necessary, replaced as part of a routine maintenance schedule. Whether or not Audi elects to include it in their published maintenance schedule is irrelevant.

If you think the Audi engineers who actually designed the components are wrong, then by all means, ignore their advice, don't replace the cam follower and just keep changing your oil.

Back to your comment about Charles, if you watch the video, he specifically recommended using rebuild lubricant when installing the new cam follower. Did Audi mention it in the TSB? Nope!

View attachment ENGINE - MIL on P2293 in ECM - Cam Lobe High Pressure Fuel Pump.pdf

Bottom line here is I frankly don't trust Audi's service or maintenance recommendations given how many of the more significant things have been intentionally left out. And as I am not a professional mechanic, I have to trust and rely on people who are and know what they're talking about, like Charles and Paul, to keep my TT out of the workshop as much as possible.

.


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## Wolvez (Jun 22, 2018)

Measure the cam follower using micrometer then do the break in procedure to harden it and absorb molybdenum. Don't dry start the engine every oil change and inspect if the flat cam follower is wearing out. Make sure the vacuum pump has no leak.

Molybdenum disulfide and minerals from conventional oil plated on the engine parts.


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## happychappy (Feb 9, 2015)

How do you circulate oil around the engine after an oil change without starting?


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## Iceblue (Jul 20, 2018)

Wolvez said:


> Measure the cam follower using micrometer then do the break in procedure to harden it and absorb molybdenum. Don't dry start the engine every oil change and inspect if the flat cam follower is wearing out. Make sure the vacuum pump has no leak.
> 
> Molybdenum disulfide and minerals from conventional oil plated on the engine parts.


So rather than replace my cam follower at the next service just have it checked along with the other things you mention and if OK put the old one back in as it is more mated?


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## Wolvez (Jun 22, 2018)

happychappy said:


> How do you circulate oil around the engine after an oil change without starting?


Use the starter to turn the engine. To prevent the engine from starting use key without chip or remove the key from the remote. The engine will start for 1 second before immobilizer kicks in.



Iceblue said:


> Wolvez said:
> 
> 
> > Measure the cam follower using micrometer then do the break in procedure to harden it and absorb molybdenum. Don't dry start the engine every oil change and inspect if the flat cam follower is wearing out. Make sure the vacuum pump has no leak.
> ...


Yup, Make sure to use NEW BOLTS and NEW SEAL when removed. Also don't forget to mark the bolt and try to torque it to 10Nm before removing it. If the marking lineup before 10Nm don't turn the bolt any further. Transfer marking on the new bolt if necessary.

Fuel Rail Pressure (Actual) will be around 49-50 bar at hot idle.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

happychappy said:


> How do you circulate oil around the engine after an oil change ?


Hi, Fill the filter/casing with oil before installing it, is the best way. Assuming the MK2 filter is not upside down.
No need to have those few seconds without oil pressure.
The slower the engine turns the camshaft etc is under even more stress, which is why you should never let a cold idle, raise revs to 1500, unless driving off immediately.
Hoggy.


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## Wolvez (Jun 22, 2018)

Hoggy said:


> happychappy said:
> 
> 
> > How do you circulate oil around the engine after an oil change ?
> ...


The oil filter is Cartridge type. Only the filter element is replace. The filter housing has a drain valve. I think it's possible to fill up the filter the same way to fill up DSG fluid but I haven't tried it yet. I just bought the tool recently


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## Jasonl (Mar 31, 2018)

I put oil in the filter housing just fill it enough that it dont spill when fitting again like i did


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Jasonl said:


> I put oil in the filter housing just fill it enough that it dont spill when fitting again like i did


Hi, [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Old school but that's the correct & best way. [smiley=dude.gif] 
Even some Audi "techs" don't do that :roll: 
Hoggy.


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## Wolvez (Jun 22, 2018)

Old shool don't use engine oil as hydraulic fluid. When the engine is making 16 revolution per seconds with the chain loose then all of a sudden the tensioner remove the slack. Will it not wear out the chain? Where ever the compressible air bleeds out will wear out.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, If you are using the starter speed to fill an empty oil filter & pressurise the system it will take much longer than starting engine with a full filter & holding revs above 1k rpm & remember cams etc are under much more stress at low revs & oil will take longer to reach top of engine when engine is being turned at starter speed.
I know modern oils are much thinner but cold oil can be at a higher pressure but flow is lower.
Hoggy.


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## Iceblue (Jul 20, 2018)

Wolvez said:


> happychappy said:
> 
> 
> > How do you circulate oil around the engine after an oil change without starting?
> ...


Yup, Make sure to use NEW BOLTS and NEW SEAL when removed. Also don't forget to mark the bolt and try to torque it to 10Nm before removing it. If the marking lineup before 10Nm don't turn the bolt any further. Transfer marking on the new bolt if necessary.

Fuel Rail Pressure (Actual) will be around 49-50 bar at hot idle.[/quote

Thanks Wolvez and muck appreciated.


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## Hadaak (Dec 25, 2008)

I changed mine at 75.000km.
It was not that much worn. I had a pcv failure around the same time.
A new cam follower is waiting in the drawer to be put soon. Car is 154.000.
I checked it a two or three months ago and it was still good. I ordered a new one though.
Now for the oil thingy I never did anything special, just standard oil service without worrying about the initial startup after oil service.
Now that you mention it I'll be just unplugging the fuel pump and letting the car die, do the oil service, crank it once or twice with the pump still unplugged (connector under the back seat for the Coupe) then plug the pump. What do you guys think?
I do have a 'rattly/diesely' noise at idle but that is probably due to the mileage and original belt still hanging in there


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hadaak said:


> Now that you mention it I'll be just unplugging the fuel pump and letting the car die, do the oil service, crank it once or twice with the pump still unplugged (connector under the back seat for the Coupe) then plug the pump. What do you guys think?
> I do have a 'rattly/diesely' noise at idle but that is probably due to the mileage and original belt still hanging in there


Hi, Don't bother, just fill the oil filter before installing & start engine normally, keep revs above 1k. No probs.
Hoggy.


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## Hadaak (Dec 25, 2008)

Ok thanks.


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## Hadaak (Dec 25, 2008)

On the 3.2 engine there is an oil tank near the oil pump. This tank is apparently not emptied when you do an oil service.
Not sure this helps with the initial startup after an oil change.
See pic taken from VR6 SSP.


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## Essexaviator (Jan 10, 2012)

I've just replaced my cam follower at 45000 miles one I took out looked like new.
Steve


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## chrisj82 (Jun 15, 2012)

I changed mine last Thursday looked ok 102000 miles


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## Wolvez (Jun 22, 2018)

chrisj82 said:


> I changed mine last Thursday looked ok 102000 miles


  That's a trap! Now you need to keep replacing it. [smiley=bomb.gif]


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## chrisj82 (Jun 15, 2012)

Wolvez said:


> chrisj82 said:
> 
> 
> > I changed mine last Thursday looked ok 102000 miles
> ...


Why? I will check every 20k I only had the car car 3 weeks prevention is better than cure surely


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## peteholloway (Aug 15, 2018)

My 2008 TFSI is now at 132000km, so I thought I would inspect the cam follower. Everything went relatively smoothly and I removed and inspected the follower. It looked perfect so I put it back straight away.

As I stood back to plan the reassembly, the small pipe that extends vertically from the Coolant Distribution Pipe broke off and started spewing coolant up against the open bonnet! I must have bumped and cracked it while loosening the high pressure fuel line. [smiley=bigcry.gif]

The bit that was left in the rubber hose looked very brittle came out in pieces. I was grateful that it didn't fail on the 2000km road trip I'm doing next month.

I've managed to repair it using a Camelbak pipe fitting that I had lying around. I drilled a 8mm hole in the Coolant Distribution Pipe where the small pipe used to be, and inserted the pipe fitting through the hole from the inside, with some quickset epoxy. The Camelbak pipe has a shoulder that will help to keep it in place when the pressure rises, hopefully.

I've ordered the replacement, so the fix just needs to get me to the office in the morning... time will tell.


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

@ Peteholloway - When you get around to the repair/replacement, can you post some pictures? Would be helpful if anyone else runs into this problem.


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## peteholloway (Aug 15, 2018)

Will do... I regret not taking photos as I went, but I was in crisis management mode 

The car made it to work this morning without issues, so the repair appears to be working.


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## p1tse (Sep 20, 2004)

Jasonl said:


> Ordered mine today from cardiff audi with oring £44 get it done when its dry


what's the part number please?

is it an easy DIY job or worth getting done when getting other service parts done?


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

@ P1tse - Go back to the first page of this post. I linked several YouTube videos of what's involved. Seems pretty straight forward.


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## peteholloway (Aug 15, 2018)

SwissJetPilot said:


> @ Peteholloway - When you get around to the repair/replacement, can you post some pictures? Would be helpful if anyone else runs into this problem.


The new Coolant Distribution Pipe was delivered today so I installed it this evening. The repaired part held out well... I've attached some photos, as requested.




























While messing with the coolant, I realized that the Indi that did the last service flushed the coolant and put in the horrible green stuff. I have bought some G12 coolant, but have no clue how to drain the old coolant. I removed the cover plate on the underside of the engine but could find a suitable spot to remove a hose from the bottom of the radiator :?:

Any advice appreciated... sorry for the off topic.


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

Dumb question, but where exactly is that pipe located in your engine bay?

As to the coolant flush, this might help - it's for a 3.2 -

https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 9&t=986385


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## peteholloway (Aug 15, 2018)

[album][/album]


SwissJetPilot said:


> This might help - it's for a 3.2 -
> 
> https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 9&t=986385


Thanks Swiss... unfortunately mine doesn't have the one way valve where he drains the coolant. Mine is a continuous pipe and both ends are very hard to get to... mine looks like the diagram below.


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

Have you looked through the workshop manual _D3E803BC234 - Engine Mechanical_? It's for the CEPB engine. You can download it from the KB, listed under Section 3 -

*FAQ - Audi TT (8J) Workshop Manuals & Self Study Programs*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1833829


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## peteholloway (Aug 15, 2018)

Thanks, I'll take a look. I have the BWA engine.


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## p1tse (Sep 20, 2004)

SwissJetPilot said:


> @ P1tse - Go back to the first page of this post. I linked several YouTube videos of what's involved. Seems pretty straight forward.


Thanks


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## Hadaak (Dec 25, 2008)

peteholloway said:


> Thanks, I'll take a look. I have the BWA engine.


There is no drain plug on the bwa engine. I replaced the radiator twice.
You will have to remove the lower coolant hose, wait for the coolant to stop spilling, put the hose back. Hose is on the passenger side (LHD)
You won't be able to flush everything. You will have to do it several times, maybe two or three to get out the green coolant. 
I suggest you start with distilled water only (mind you not demineralised water) for two or three flushes then when it is all clear add the g13 stuff.

You will need this tool: VAG1921

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Coolant- ... ctupt=true


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## peteholloway (Aug 15, 2018)

Thanks Hadaak, this confirms all my findings. The tool you show will definitely make this job doable.


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## beberobu (Aug 26, 2017)

How you fill the oil filter?



Hoggy said:


> Hi, Don't bother, just fill the oil filter before installing & start engine normally, keep revs above 1k. No probs.
> Hoggy.


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## Wolvez (Jun 22, 2018)

beberobu said:


> How you fill the oil filter?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Use the starter to turn the engine several times. To prevent the engine from starting remove the key blade from the remote or aimply use spare key without RFID. To eliminate excessive cranking use the special oil filter tool for the drain plug then use itas fill plug just like how DSG are filled.


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## beberobu (Aug 26, 2017)

Sorry, deffo i am noob, the bold part i dont understand. But thank you for the time and intention!



Wolvez said:


> beberobu said:
> 
> 
> > How you fill the oil filter?
> ...


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## TT_A4 (Mar 13, 2020)

Does the cam follower replacement apply to a 3.2 gen2 also?


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## Wolvez (Jun 22, 2018)

TT_A4 said:


> Does the cam follower replacement apply to a 3.2 gen2 also?


 *Nope*



beberobu said:


> Sorry, deffo i am noob, the bold part i dont understand. But thank you for the time and intention!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I updated the bold part above.

The oil filter housing has drain valve under it. The oil inside the filter housing should always be drain first before removing the oil filter housing to prevent debris trap in the filter from draining back to the oil pan. To open the valve use the special tool that thread under the filter housing. Pump oil through the valve to fill up the oil filter housing. Then crank the engine several times without starting it to build up oil pressure and to bleed all air. I almost forgot to mention the first very important step. Make sure the engine will not start and immobilizer is working properly. Using a non RFID key on a good condition engine will start for 1 second then stall.


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

Just as an FYI the 3.2 VR6 (BUB) filter housing cap does not have a valve, just a drain plug, so the T-40057 oil drain adapter hose won't work with it. When you replace the filter, all you can do is insert the filter cartridge into the cap, fill it with as much oil as possible (allowing the filter so soak up as much as it can) and then install it.

I've replaced the OEM plastic oil filter housing with a billet aluminum one from ECS Tuning which will accept a Stahlbus M14x1.5 drain valve. I have one valve the filter housing and one in the drain sump. Makes the job much easier and less messy! If interested, you can read about it here -

*Adding a Drain Valve to the 3.2 (BUB) Oil Filter Housing*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 5#p9408655


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## Tonipoloni (Nov 21, 2020)

*While we're talking Tappets*- could I ask if anyone can give me a full description with pictures of how to remove, service/replace the roller tappet on my *CESA mk2 engine*? I cant find anything on youtube and only diagrams and basic audi manual stuff on here.


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## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

@ *Tonipoloni* - Did you look through the workshop manual for your engine? It might be covered in there -

*FAQ - Audi TT (8J) Workshop Manuals & Self Study Programs*
*Engine CCT, CCZ, CDA, CES, CET - 1.8 ltr & 2.0 ltr, 4-Valve, Turbo - A005TT02420*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1833829


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## Tonipoloni (Nov 21, 2020)

Yes I did, may have missed something but as I say, I could only find a few diagrams and basic instructions which arent great if you've never done it before, you need to know the pitfalls and learn from a video really. Just seems that nobody has done much on youtube with the CESA engine and a lot of the parts differ from the more common version for the mk2 tt


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## TT'sRevenge (Feb 28, 2021)

Tonipoloni said:


> Yes I did, may have missed something but as I say, I could only find a few diagrams and basic instructions which arent great if you've never done it before, you need to know the pitfalls and learn from a video really. Just seems that nobody has done much on youtube with the CESA engine and a lot of the parts differ from the more common version for the mk2 tt


This engine should be the same as the CCZA engine. It's a "TSI" (EA888) engine. This should essentially be a CCTA with AVS/VL (Audi Valve Lift System)--which is variable lift on the exhaust side.

You're trying to remove the HPFP? Why are you trying to replace the roller anyway? It's really not a maintenance item like the follower on the FSI/EA113 engines. Shouldn't need replacing unless you suspect there is a problem but then how would you know it's the tappet and not the HPFP itself?

Back on the topic of EA113 followers, note that I'd say it should be replaced as soon as you see the coating coming off. I think the wear becomes accelerated after that. When I took out the one on my TT when I bought it, it "looked okay" as the coating had just started to wear off. I figured it would be good for at least a year or so--I was wrong I think. When I pulled out the HPFP this time to do all the other work, the follower is worn a lot more and the coating is basically gone now. This is after only about 1000km since I checked it before.

I haven't seen any one be too clear on this otherwise, I just see that people replace it in various states of wear but don't indicate when it really should be replaced.


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## Tonipoloni (Nov 21, 2020)

Thanks for that - I assumed that the roller tappet was just a different type of tappet and was still subject to wear and would eventually need replacing. My car's nearly six years old with over 120,000 miles on the clock so wanted to get it checked.
Here's a pic I found of a roller tappet next to the standard tappet.








Can't be sure but I think it's unlikely that mine has been changed since new. *Does anyone else have any thoughts?*
*Especially interested to know if a worn roller has any effect on running or performance?*


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## TT'sRevenge (Feb 28, 2021)

Tonipoloni said:


> Thanks for that - I assumed that the roller tappet was just a different type of tappet and was still subject to wear and would eventually need replacing. My car's nearly six years old with over 120,000 miles on the clock so wanted to get it checked.
> Here's a pic I found of a roller tappet next to the standard tappet.
> 
> Can't be sure but I think it's unlikely that mine has been changed since new. *Does anyone else have any thoughts?*
> *Especially interested to know if a worn roller has any effect on running or performance?*


TBH I've never heard of anyone replacing the roller follower on EA888 engines as a periodic thing. 120k mi is pretty high though so it's worth removing and taking a look. I think only you will be able to assess the condition of the one on your car after as many miles as it has.


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