# Your police force. Have your say!



## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

So today's news brings some surprising news of HMV going under and this seems to be front page.. Why? Is the question I ask.

Today's news also brings news of further cut backs to the police force. Namely the starting pay reduction of 4k per annum to new officers. 
Iv been asked numerous times today if this correctly effects me or how I feel towards the force. And frankly the answer to that is no. My concerned in fact is more focussed towards what further damage the force takes as a result of this movement.

Amongst other important things such as the NHS, the fire service and the army. the police force has already received huge cut backs effecting how the force is run dramatically. We already see officers facing dangerous situations alone due to funding not reaching the 2nd man that would otherwise be by his side. 
Training suffers dramatically again putting strain on officers out on patrol and. And recruitment or rather lack of has seen the age of the average young officer rais to 24-25 years old.

Our police force was once boasted to be the best police force in the world. 
Personally I still fly that flag. But what would you say?

Our police force is funded by you! The tax payer. It's your service that you pay for on a monthly basis through the teeth.

Should this great service suffer more? Should our new officers face life threatening situations daily creating a safer world for others while struggling to pay the bills at home?

I appreciate this thread may receive a level of disapproval for the police force. Unfortunately this comes hand in hand with the image it portrays but this threa is more for you to share your views.

It's your service, have your say!!

Simon.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

You know my thoughts si, by dropping the starting pay it will have one of two effects m8. Either a lower class of plod will be taken on due to the crap wages, or cops will start to moonlight to make up the loss. Either way it will directly effect how policing is done in the uk.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Well, many wouldn't have seen it but in the news yesterday was a report detailing how there is currently a chronic shortage of younger police offiers. Nationally there are now 50% fewer officers under the age of 26 than there were just 2 years ago. In some forces that reduction is as much as 70%. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20998800). Given that our police service is supposed to reflect the community that's not great news for our young population who always feel a little put-on by the authorities as it is. Of course this sharp drop has come about because hardly any forces have done any recruiting for some years now, resulting in a net loss of 9500 officers in England and Wales.

Cuts not effecting front line services? Rubbish. I work in response policing in a major inner-city area and if that's not front line I don't know what is. We've lost 4 officers out of 21 in the last 6 months. They're not getting replaced.

So is such a large cut in starting salaries likely to improve matters?

Policing is always a difficult career to assess. Most people think they know what policing involves. They see it on the TV and it looks interesting and exciting so there's always people who want to do it - and frankly few people do much research when considering a career in the police so really don't know what they're getting themselves into. Consequently, whatever is done within the job it rarely has any material effect on recruitment. However, it doesn't take long once you're in to find out the reality. These days it has surprisingly little to do with catching criminals. Little of what we do is particularly satisfying. And added to that the demands of the job on your own life are way beyond what anybody anticipates. But, until recently, the financial rewards were comparatively reasonable. Pay was decent even if you were never going to be rich and there was always the prospect that after 30 years of demanding, hard graft you'd at least have the opportunity to retire a little early and be reasonably comfortable. That was enough to retain officers once they were in.

Now youngsters are going to be joining full of excitement and anticipation and then experiencing the usual disappointment. But now, the salary won't be that great compared to what else may be on offer elsewhere and the changed pension proposed is now certainly not going to keep people. So I expect these cuts are going to result in the young officers we manage to recruit not staying in very long.

So recruitment is not going to be a problem (not even the quality of recruits, given the high levels of unemployment amongst the young - even graduates), but I anticipate that retention certainly will be. I think the government have seriously misjudged the situation.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Gazzer - your not wrong mate.

Mark - I touched on the age think on my OP. it's been floating about the headlines for about a week now that the younger age has increased by said amount. Your right in saying that this has a direct effect on the policing of youths and the level of accomplishment achieved in said area.

Its a kick in the teeth for new starters from outside. So...Theresa May sees far more applicants than places...softens the ground with a pay and recruitment freeze...cuts starting salaries...result is ...she saves money all round and weeds out those who just like a nice uniform and a fat pay packet (as a simple politician she will see it !). For a Home Secretary in a struggling coilition this is gold dust !! Watch out for the headlines once the recruitment starts moving "We have increased Police numbers by X percent says Home Secretary" Both of these will have tory middle England cheering. sad fact of life fellas...for politicians its only ever about the money!!

Did anyone see by the way that MPs are suggesting a 32% pay rise for themselves...ridiculous!! But not so ridiculous when they actually get 25% and say 'but we should have had more...we have been public spirited accepting less !'
At what point do these morons put there life on the line sat on a chair arguing the toss in a room full of other morons and a man in a wig? Breaks my heart!


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Spot on si, spot on!!!! Six months before the election is due all manor of things will change to make themselves look like a proactive government. It is only ever about figures and makes no odds if labour or conservs tbh. The only time it will change before that time is if another copper dies and is directly linked to lack of numbers.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Gazzer said:


> Spot on si, spot on!!!! Six months before the election is due all manor of things will change to make themselves look like a proactive government. It is only ever about figures and makes no odds if labour or conservs tbh. The only time it will change before that time is if another copper dies and is directly linked to lack of numbers.


God bless those fallen! 
Boxing Day this year will mark 10 years following PC Ian Braudhurst. 
It's not nice to make the death of an officer a statistic but this for me... Was the start of what we are now seeing more concentrated.

Lets not forget the cuts the army are receiving. That again.. Arguably contribute and have contributed for numerous deaths over the years. Makes me sick that the word "collateral" fits oh so snugly into this topic of conversation.

Bring our boys and girls home! Enough is enough.

As for those lost and fallen... 
We WILL, remember them!


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## Fab 4 TT (Sep 28, 2004)

Is the £4000 reduction just on the initial starting salary or through all the ranks you progress?


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## c15 ttt (Dec 3, 2010)

i havnt read up on the facts but i think its not that bad of a move to reduce the starting salary.maybe it will deter the ones who just want a uniform and a good wage and arent actually joining for the correct reasons.cut the starting salary and increase the numbers of officers sounds sensible.if they do well and earn promotion then financial rewards will come their way so that should encourage them to do a good job.


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## c15 ttt (Dec 3, 2010)

i also think the standard of copper has fallen since the criteria has changed.you see those police docs on the tv where some drunken div is causing trouble and it ends up taking 6 or 7 coppers to control them cos they are not strong enough.officers should still have to be strong enough to arrest a person without having to call in the cavalry.pc gone nuts.they are all called police officers cos they are all supposed to be able to do the job as good as each other which is never going to be true when you compare a 5 foot woman to 6 foot 2 bloke.or even a 5 foot bloke for that matter.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

c15 ttt said:


> i also think the standard of copper has fallen since the criteria has changed.you see those police docs on the tv where some drunken div is causing trouble and it ends up taking 6 or 7 coppers to control them cos they are not strong enough.officers should still have to be strong enough to arrest a person without having to call in the cavalry.pc gone nuts.they are all called police officers cos they are all supposed to be able to do the job as good as each other which is never going to be true when you compare a 5 foot woman to 6 foot 2 bloke.or even a 5 foot bloke for that matter.


This is called equality mate. 
Nothing wrong with that. Iv seen a 5ft blond bird take down an acid riddled mentalist that had just given me a boot to the ribs. 
"The Calvalry" as you call it is what's needed. Sadly.. What you see on The old telly box is the best of what is to offer in many cases. Most forces would see that officer on his Tod.

Also. Il counter that with saying In my opinion officer standards haven't fallen. But the conditions in witch they work in and the harsh consequences of actions unfortunately have. 
That combined with the fact that today's world is that of a much more hostile environment due to one thing or another creates the impression of poor personal management. Would you agree?

We cant hide the fact that The old weapon situation is growing. But we have moved fairly rapidly from a world where the average big bat and a snooker ball in a sock would suffice.. To a world where knife culture is paramount along side the bigger boys with knock off simple fire arms to full blown automatic people killers.

Si.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Hopefully , tho I doubt it because that would involve some joined up thinking ,, the money which they save on paying the short haired police cadet will go to relieve the cuts in teachers saleries , ( which you did not mention ,) more education = less policing


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

roddy said:


> Hopefully , tho I doubt it because that would involve some joined up thinking ,, the money which they save on paying the short haired police cadet will go to relieve the cuts in teachers saleries , ( which you did not mention ,) more education = less policing


No mate I didn't. As I'd have a list as long as my arm if I where to list all cuts beneath the public service. Although teaching is still within the public sector.. Teachers pay has been frozen for the last 4 years and will be for the next 2 at least. My dads a head teacher and we often speak about it all.

My focus here mate is the services offered to a country that relys on its service infer structure.
These are professions that are risky and take balls. What this thread reviles around is the fact that our government plans to pay a serving officer.. Who faces abuse of a physical nature daily, Less to do his job than the economy standard would pay Fred Blogs to spend a year sat behind a computer and a telephone flogging fridges to the elderly over a cold call number base. There is no logic to this in my eyes.


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## Jordan282 (Sep 21, 2012)

c15 ttt said:


> i also think the standard of copper has fallen since the criteria has changed.you see those police docs on the tv where some drunken div is causing trouble and it ends up taking 6 or 7 coppers to control them cos they are not strong enough.officers should still have to be strong enough to arrest a person without having to call in the cavalry.pc gone nuts.they are all called police officers cos they are all supposed to be able to do the job as good as each other which is never going to be true when you compare a 5 foot woman to 6 foot 2 bloke.or even a 5 foot bloke for that matter.


Totally agree with that. I understand it may not be politically correct in the world today but its how i think things should be I'm afraid


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Jordan282 said:


> c15 ttt said:
> 
> 
> > i also think the standard of copper has fallen since the criteria has changed.you see those police docs on the tv where some drunken div is causing trouble and it ends up taking 6 or 7 coppers to control them cos they are not strong enough.officers should still have to be strong enough to arrest a person without having to call in the cavalry.pc gone nuts.they are all called police officers cos they are all supposed to be able to do the job as good as each other which is never going to be true when you compare a 5 foot woman to 6 foot 2 bloke.or even a 5 foot bloke for that matter.
> ...


Don't forget to look from outside the box in though boys. 
Policing is NOT all about chasing the ugly bloke. Not in any way shape or form. 
if a 5ft woman can wind a Volvo estate through motorway traffic at break neck speeds more accurately and efficiently than the next 6ft bloke then that's her calling and she deserves it. 
Also.. Not every child abuse, domestic or female rape victim would appreciate being handled by a serving male officer... In many cases a female officer breaking news of a horrific death to a loved one is also a much more personal approach than PC hulk with his docked cap and fancy watch.

Personally I'm all for equality. However.. good management of said equality is imperative.

A female police officer, patrolling alone, at night through south leeds for example... Is not a good call. Christ.. a male officer alone still runs the risk of being rodded round those parts.. But back on a serious note.. A female officer, knocking around with another male officer along the known red light strips... Would be far more apt.

Needs and requirement guys. 
Needs and requirement.


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## Jordan282 (Sep 21, 2012)

simno44 said:


> roddy said:
> 
> 
> > Hopefully , tho I doubt it because that would involve some joined up thinking ,, the money which they save on paying the short haired police cadet will go to relieve the cuts in teachers saleries , ( which you did not mention ,) more education = less policing
> ...


Sorry, I am currently in the army, and from what I understand, the police force is taking a cut of £4000 per annum to the starting salary... yet STILL starting on a higher salary than we do here? Your argument however, is that being in the police force, you are in a risky job that can at times, be life threatening?

I dare say it is, but sometimes you have to weigh things up.. This should have happened a long time a go and if its anything to go by the quality of today's police force, I don't believe it's enough.

I think the fact that even after such a big cut, the police officers are still to start on a higher wage than us, should rule out the argument of it not being high enough due to the nature and risks of the job.

Excuse me for being biased, but people should think realistically about the countries current financial situation before they go defensive against a cut.


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## Jordan282 (Sep 21, 2012)

simno44 said:


> What this thread reviles around is the fact that our government plans to pay a serving officer.. Who faces abuse of a physical nature daily, Less to do his job than the economy standard would pay Fred Blogs to spend a year sat behind a computer and a telephone flogging fridges to the elderly over a cold call number base. There is no logic to this in my eyes.


I do agree with where you are coming from there, in the sense that the police officer would be doing a job to help the country, where as fred blogs would be doing nothing of that nature. 
However, the logic there is that Fred Blogs is taking money from what he is doing. As much as all the public services may be doing a fantastic job, it is all dead money, the only money money coming back is the tax which is then pumped back into them. They are not producing money which is why people have to understand that when the country is in such situation, cuts have to be made


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

I don't see what the issue is reg female police , of course evey person has their place ,, I never realised some cops have to go out on their own n that iMO is totally wrong ,,,,,,,, I think we ought to have a look at how much J P Morgan stole from us all last year and what they are planing now before we start the " country is in a state " type stories ,,, there is plenty money around , its just being stolen by banksters !!!! Give the guys their £80 per week .....


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Jordan282 said:


> simno44 said:
> 
> 
> > What this thread reviles around is the fact that our government plans to pay a serving officer.. Who faces abuse of a physical nature daily, Less to do his job than the economy standard would pay Fred Blogs to spend a year sat behind a computer and a telephone flogging fridges to the elderly over a cold call number base. There is no logic to this in my eyes.
> ...


Indeed. But why bite the hand that feeds you? What your saying is thst taking from the police feeds the nation .. It's a shot to the foot. Cutting off the nose to spite the face. 
Don't take this the wrong way but if with one hand we take hard earned money from a serving police officer... Or indeed a teacher, nhs worker, fire worker or service man. Should we not also be taking the same from mr salesman??? 
Lets not forget that a police officer pays the same tax if not more than the next man.. 
So while someone who works directly towards a nations benefit and safety, Pays the price.. 
said sales man who couldn't give a monkeys rakes in the cash and loses/gives nothing. 
Where is his contribution to the country's regeneration?

Just a thought....


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## c15 ttt (Dec 3, 2010)

Also.. Not every child abuse, domestic or female rape victim would appreciate being handled by a serving male officer... In many cases a female officer breaking news of a horrific death to a loved one is also a much more personal approach than PC hulk with his docked cap and fancy watch.

Personally I'm all for equality. However.. good management of said equality is imperative.

A female police officer, patrolling alone, at night through south leeds for example... Is not a good call. Christ.. a male officer alone still runs the risk of being rodded round those parts.. But back on a serious note.. A female officer, knocking around with another male officer along the known red light strips... Would be far more apt. (quoted)

this is exactly my point mate.its supposed to be equal but you are singling a female out suggesting she would do a better job than her male colleague.they used to be called policemen and police women but its not.they are all police officers cos they are supposed to be able to do the job equally.yes a woman is supposed to be able to take down a nutter footy fan and yes a ufc looking bloke is supposed to be able to pass on bad news to families.in the real world it doesnt really work.its all too pc.now if either of them turns out to be a better all round cop and does the whole job well then thats when they should be singled out for promotion and given the pay rise.as far as wages goes.you cant compare police to computer guys as as jordan said.if you want to go down that route why not pay footballers,singers and other jobs in the entertainment industry 19 grand a year since its the job they love doing and use the rest of their revenue to pay serving officers,soldiers etc who are actually taking a risk to protect the population.my dad was chief inspector of durham police and retired when he was 52 cos of the way the force was heading.speaks volumes.i would be a copper any day of the week.there are risks but they are quite low on a day to day basis at least in my part of the world.my brother is a prison officer in frankland.thats a job i wouldnt do and if they cut the wages i would be the first to complain cos you are locked in a big box with a bunch of nutters waiting for the chance to stick a piece of metal in your neck.its all relative.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

c15 ttt said:


> Also.. Not every child abuse, domestic or female rape victim would appreciate being handled by a serving male officer... In many cases a female officer breaking news of a horrific death to a loved one is also a much more personal approach than PC hulk with his docked cap and fancy watch.
> 
> Personally I'm all for equality. However.. good management of said equality is imperative.
> 
> ...


Agreed.


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## Jordan282 (Sep 21, 2012)

simno44 said:


> Jordan282 said:
> 
> 
> > simno44 said:
> ...


His contribution, is that the country doesn't pay for his wage (as such) he makes his own money and contributes spending on his tax band. Which is exactly how it should work. (Apart from public sector of course as this isn't possible)


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## Jordan282 (Sep 21, 2012)

c15 ttt said:


> Also.. Not every child abuse, domestic or female rape victim would appreciate being handled by a serving male officer... In many cases a female officer breaking news of a horrific death to a loved one is also a much more personal approach than PC hulk with his docked cap and fancy watch.
> 
> Personally I'm all for equality. However.. good management of said equality is imperative.
> 
> ...


Correct


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Jordan282 said:


> simno44 said:
> 
> 
> > Jordan282 said:
> ...


Indeed.. But an officer pays the same taxes all the same mate.

A salesman makes his own money and pays for the services he receives. Admittedly through high taxes...

A police officer works hard for his wage, at much greater risk yet is also paying for his own services.. So he's no different where earning and taxes are concerned. but is now being deducted 4k a year??

Logic?? 
My argument is not the a police officers wage should not be docked. But more a wide spread cut. It's not fair that the fire service, NHS, police and so on have to suffer... When additional tax could ALSO be Attributed to other sectors in order to share the load.

I have worked in marketing, sales and retail for many many years and still do to some extent. So please don't feel I'm looking for another victim .

It just seems to me that at the moment all the weight is being out open our vital services. While money is pooled out to the in deserving and to people who naturally would not be living in our country would it not e for an emigration strategy gone wrong.

I would like to make it clear that I support emigration to a degree. But I won't lie. I think we have gone far far above what we are capable of holding/controlling Financially. And physically.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

It would probably be worth stating at this point that 
A police officer is not "the government" it's a profession. In witch capital is made in simple speak by 1 human being putting one foot in front of the other segregating good from bad. 
Similarly to a builder putting one brick on top of another.

Just because the government pays the police officers means. Doest go to say that he or she should therefore fall for their cuts in their own sector. 
He is after all paying every month in taxes for the same government service for street services right down to armed forces just as the telesales man.

I am however coming to appreciate the small amount of good that will come from this. 
That doesn't go to excuse why only certain areas should suffer however. And the fact that it is really just foundation for government image is not escapable.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

c15 ttt said:


> i also think the standard of copper has fallen since the criteria has changed.you see those police docs on the tv where some drunken div is causing trouble and it ends up *taking 6 or 7 coppers to control them cos they are not strong enough*.officers should still have to be strong enough to arrest a person without having to call in the cavalry.pc gone nuts.they are all called police officers cos they are all supposed to be able to do the job as good as each other which is never going to be true when you compare a 5 foot woman to 6 foot 2 bloke.or even a 5 foot bloke for that matter.


This is a fine example of people presuming they know what policing is about and posting criticism when in reality they have very little understanding of what they are talking about. It's not a dig at the person posting it - if you don't do the job then you're not going to know much about it - but I just wish people paused every now and then to consider whether they do in fact know what they are talking about.

There is a reason why you see 5, 6 or 7 police officers trying to restrain someone, and, "Look at all these cops for one person. It's brutality!" is a comment we often hear. In fact, it's the exact opposite!

I could easily restrain a person by myself. So could a woman of 5' tall. All you need to do is get a baton out and repeatedly beat your prisoner round the head until they are unconcious. But of course we don't do that. What we try to do is arrest violent people while causing them minimal or no injury at all. In order to do that it takes more people. They are trying to hurt us as much as they can while we are usually electing to sustain injuries from their attacks so that we can avoid hurting them. The more people you have the easier that is.

So it's got nothing to do with the size or quality of police officers.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Mark Davies said:


> c15 ttt said:
> 
> 
> > i also think the standard of copper has fallen since the criteria has changed.you see those police docs on the tv where some drunken div is causing trouble and it ends up *taking 6 or 7 coppers to control them cos they are not strong enough*.officers should still have to be strong enough to arrest a person without having to call in the cavalry.pc gone nuts.they are all called police officers cos they are all supposed to be able to do the job as good as each other which is never going to be true when you compare a 5 foot woman to 6 foot 2 bloke.or even a 5 foot bloke for that matter.
> ...


+1. 
I was to much of a wimp to being the words police and brutality into the mix.


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## Mark Davies (Apr 10, 2007)

Jordan282 said:


> His contribution, is that the country doesn't pay for his wage (as such) he makes his own money and contributes spending on his tax band. Which is exactly how it should work. (Apart from public sector of course as this isn't possible)


This argument that the private sector produce wealth while the public sector soaks it up is really naive in terms of understanding economics. The public sector doesn't make profits so therefore it adds no value to the economy? It's a foolishly simplistic view of the world.

Teachers educating our children and giving them the skills and qualifications needed to perform useful roles within the workforce don't add value to the economy? NHS staff looking after the health of the workforce, reducing productive days lost through illness don't add value to the economy? Police officers preventing and deterring crime and protecting productive assets and income streams don't add value to the economy? No, of course they do!

The fact of the matter is in terms of GDP our public services contribute far more to the economy than many of our private industries. Any economy needs these services to thrive. They are _essential_, which is exactly the reason why they are in public control - because they are so important. Yet from the pensions row onwards we constantly hear this argument from people in the private sector that we're nothing but a bunch of parasites bleeding the country dry. Well, fine. Educate your own kids. Cure your own cancers. And take your chances by yourself with the predatory scum who are just sitting and waiting for any opportunity to take everything you have from you. Because as you say, you don't need us - we don't contribute anything!


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

And breath. 
. All very good and valid comments here.

Proving to be a good thread topic. And no ones shouted at anyone yet


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

truth be told it is only really the police fire and armed forces that have seriously risky jobs.

armed forces is the worse of course as you actually get paid to put yourself up as a target, n o amount of training can or will help you dodge that bullet aimed at the head.....very brave guys/gals in my book

fire brigade avidly go to somewhere that has the potential of an explosion everytime..........are they mad???

police force has to face the nutters with guns or knives or the mentally ill person with a machette...thankless job.

all of the above forces brigades, whatever you want to call them are badly needed in our society. the only odd one out are the fire brigade that can and will go on strike to achieve a better pay scale, wheras i have never heard of police or armed forces saying sod that were on strike............MORE MONEY. truth is if you don't like it son sod off and get another job then mentality that the government has. if the cops and armed forces wern't dedicated they wouldn't do the job they love for a country that shows them such little resect in return.

ps i tried for fire brigade, but at that time it had a 25 year old age limit to join. couldn;t join cops as had some probs as a teenager......crim record. army?? sod that i don't want to be shot!!


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Gaz ,,, I don't know how you can come out with a statement like that ,,,,,, the police nor the armed forces are even in the top ten most dangerous jobs , that honour belongs to typically un hero like roles ,,, fishermen are way in the lead of dangerous professions , followed by agriculture , construction, oill rig workers etc etc etc,,,, sorry mate but your image of heros dodging bullets is nothing more than aa fantasy from some boys comic ,


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Gazzer said:


> truth be told it is only really the police fire and armed forces that have seriously risky jobs.
> 
> armed forces is the worse of course as you actually get paid to put yourself up as a target, n o amount of training can or will help you dodge that bullet aimed at the head.....very brave guys/gals in my book
> 
> ...


Hi gazzer. 
The force being Thankless is debatable. But the principle behind what your saying does fit. 
As for police striking for obvious reasons this is forbidden. Unfortunately the furthest action that an be taken is a parade. Witch we saw many of last year for one reason or another.

Believe it or not there is a signature E-billet floating around at the moment for police rights to strike. I haven't "E-signed" it and wouldn't wish to.

In relation to risk, my vision in the NHS being risky is the idea that one wrong choice or poor decision could see a nurse, doctor, surgeon on hi knees before a crown court before you can say stitches. 
Speaking of witch That's a profession under the government wing that receives a HUGE salary. Understandably so given the amount of work put into the knowledge needed. But would closer inspection of the tax that a surgeon pays or maybe a 4k dock to his annual intake not help towards money being placed else where?? 
It's safe up say an accomplished surgeon would suffer a lot less than a bobby earning only 19k starting.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

roddy said:


> Gaz ,,, I don't know how you can come out with a statement like that ,,,,,, the police nor the armed forces are even in the top ten most dangerous jobs , that honour belongs to typically un hero like roles ,,, fishermen are way in the lead of dangerous professions , followed by agriculture , construction, oill rig workers etc etc etc,,,, sorry mate but your image of heros dodging bullets is nothing more than aa fantasy from some boys comic ,


Gazzer... I implore you to ignore this. 
It's a daft remark and don't think it's worth broaching for the sake of starting an unnecessary secondary debate.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

simno44 said:


> roddy said:
> 
> 
> > Gaz ,,, I don't know how you can come out with a statement like that ,,,,,, the police nor the armed forces are even in the top ten most dangerous jobs , that honour belongs to typically un hero like roles ,,, fishermen are way in the lead of dangerous professions , followed by agriculture , construction, oill rig workers etc etc etc,,,, sorry mate but your image of heros dodging bullets is nothing more than aa fantasy from some boys comic ,
> ...


is ok si, i know what he means.........but we are talking of services directly paid by the government.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

simno44 said:


> roddy said:
> 
> 
> > Gaz ,,, I don't know how you can come out with a statement like that ,,,,,, the police nor the armed forces are even in the top ten most dangerous jobs , that honour belongs to typically un hero like roles ,,, fishermen are way in the lead of dangerous professions , followed by agriculture , construction, oill rig workers etc etc etc,,,, sorry mate but your image of heros dodging bullets is nothing more than aa fantasy from some boys comic ,
> ...


No attempt to hijack the post or start a secondary argument ,,,,You might think that it is adaft remark , it just happens to factual , not just based on entrenched opinions and missguided hero worshiping ,,, just trying to keep the record straight. :roll:


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Gazzer said:


> simno44 said:
> 
> 
> > roddy said:
> ...


And those with benefit towards the life quality of others no?

I must ring my uncle when I get home and ask him when the last time he tuck down a box of fish fingers for sex trafficking was.


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## c15 ttt (Dec 3, 2010)

There is a reason why you see 5, 6 or 7 police officers trying to restrain someone, and, "Look at all these cops for one person. It's brutality!" is a comment we often hear. In fact, it's the exact opposite!

I could easily restrain a person by myself. So could a woman of 5' tall. All you need to do is get a baton out and repeatedly beat your prisoner round the head until they are unconcious. But of course we don't do that. What we try to do is arrest violent people while causing them minimal or no injury at all. In order to do that it takes more people. They are trying to hurt us as much as they can while we are usually electing to sustain injuries from their attacks so that we can avoid hurting them. The more people you have the easier that is.

So it's got nothing to do with the size or quality of police officers.[/quote]

maybe in some cases.but ive actually watched this on tv of real incidents where coppers are being overpowered and their arses drop.i know for a fact the coppers were trying every trick in the book,even pepper spray that hardly had an effect.if this statement is correct then i am furious again at pc gone mad.if some idiot is running riot then i want a copper to use all force necessary to halt it asap.not wait for the cavalry so they can avoid upsetting them case they try to sue or whatever.you say a 5ft woman can easily restrain a person.give over.the police force is turning into a laughing stock.there are recruitments aimed at employing extra women and ethnic minorities etc just so they look good and people think they are equal opportunities employer.i dont want any particular.i just want the people who are the best possible out there.they are employed to protect my family and friends and i dont want to take any chances.dont get me wrong.im certainly not anti copper.i know a lot of them are good coppers despite their size etc but i think the recruitment drive is going in the wrong direction.kids these days have little respect and its little wonder.that said because of again pc gone mad,kids are losing respect for teachers and even parents.we will end up like america if we arent careful


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

c15 ttt said:


> There is a reason why you see 5, 6 or 7 police officers trying to restrain someone, and, "Look at all these cops for one person. It's brutality!" is a comment we often hear. In fact, it's the exact opposite!
> 
> I could easily restrain a person by myself. So could a woman of 5' tall. All you need to do is get a baton out and repeatedly beat your prisoner round the head until they are unconcious. But of course we don't do that. What we try to do is arrest violent people while causing them minimal or no injury at all. In order to do that it takes more people. They are trying to hurt us as much as they can while we are usually electing to sustain injuries from their attacks so that we can avoid hurting them. The more people you have the easier that is.
> 
> So it's got nothing to do with the size or quality of police officers.


maybe in some cases.but ive actually watched this on tv of real incidents where coppers are being overpowered and their arses drop.i know for a fact the coppers were trying every trick in the book,even pepper spray that hardly had an effect.if this statement is correct then i am furious again at pc gone mad.if some idiot is running riot then i want a copper to use all force necessary to halt it asap.not wait for the cavalry so they can avoid upsetting them case they try to sue or whatever.you say a 5ft woman can easily restrain a person.give over.the police force is turning into a laughing stock.there are recruitments aimed at employing extra women and ethnic minorities etc just so they look good and people think they are equal opportunities employer.i dont want any particular.i just want the people who are the best possible out there.they are employed to protect my family and friends and i dont want to take any chances.dont get me wrong.im certainly not anti copper.i know a lot of them are good coppers despite their size etc but i think the recruitment drive is going in the wrong direction.kids these days have little respect and its little wonder.that said because of again pc gone mad,kids are losing respect for teachers and even parents.we will end up like america if we arent careful[/quote]

With respect. 
If you knew what was needed in any given person when traveling through the recruitment system you wouldn't be saying what you are.

Policing is not about ripping into bad guys and beating them to a pulp.

Stick to your job and let them do theirs yeah? 
This topic is for the discussion of pay over many areas of the bulky sector. Not weather or not the police force meets your own selfish needs/dreams.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

the teachers bit was caused by some arse in gov stating that kids should not be corporally punished (slipper cane etc) kids could get away with whatever. as that generation has grown and sprouted more little so and so's with no or very little guidance on how to behave in society this new generation will spout more crap...........until it comes full circle again


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

.[/quote]

maybe in some cases.but ive actually watched this on tv of real incidents where coppers are blah blah blah[/quote]

This says it all to me... 
What you see in your telly box, sat in your recliner sipping hurdle tea and scoffing digestives is nothing but what is classed to be "interesting telly" it's no more accurate a display of actual policing that. Keith lemon is of sex education. 
Mate I'm not getting at you but your vision is a bit blurred to what actually goes on. And I can't blame you for taking the TV as gospel. Many do.


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## c15 ttt (Dec 3, 2010)

simon.i obviously dont know what goes on inside the police force but what the tv shows are real policing.its not a drama series.as it happens i also have my own two eyes and have been able to see it in my local town.if a person can protect their home from a burglar using any force necessary then why cant the police.we wouldnt even have this problem if the divs in wigs would lock these idiots up.its a waste of time and money.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

an old copper we knew as kids in cheltenham..........pc jeffries and you called him pc jeffries not m8 or mister was a hard arsed old school copper that had patrolled that beat for years and knew all of the parents and little scrotes. when he came walking up we stopped and all looked guilty, even if we wern't lol. now he had earned the respect he got and like magic turned up at the right place and the right time.
those days are long long gone for the police and they have targets to achieve........the whole force is run by money men and not an ex plod who has earnt the right to know what it is that is required to do the job. same as the hospitals being run by trusts........same thing just a different profession. i know i am biased towards the police as many friends are plod and my neice is a biker in gloucester so i hear loads of how they feel about it, and am sympathetic to a job that despite simon disagreeing with me is very often a thankless job.


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## Jordan282 (Sep 21, 2012)

Mark Davies said:


> Jordan282 said:
> 
> 
> > His contribution, is that the country doesn't pay for his wage (as such) he makes his own money and contributes spending on his tax band. Which is exactly how it should work. (Apart from public sector of course as this isn't possible)
> ...


Not one part of what I said, states that they bring no value to the country. Thats a stupid thing to assume. I am not naive, and I am actually in the public sector so I am certainly not biased. However I am one of the few that understands that when the country needs to make cuts, we are the ones that are going to suffer. If you didn't like that before you joined you should never have signed on the dotted line. The army are also in the public sector which is a major force that people forget about when thins like this crop up. The main reason of that is because unlike a lot of other services, we have the discipline, yet not the time to go on strike and cause a scene over something that whether or not we like it, needs to be done at some point.

I am not at all saying however, everyone in the services are the same.. I know plenty of teachers, police, and doctors that agree with me and can also put up a good argument. I'm just saying that they are always the first to say that no one is listening to them when really they are not willing to listen to the other side.


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## c15 ttt (Dec 3, 2010)

Gazzer said:


> an old copper we knew as kids in cheltenham..........pc jeffries and you called him pc jeffries not m8 or mister was a hard arsed old school copper that had patrolled that beat for years and knew all of the parents and little scrotes. when he came walking up we stopped and all looked guilty, even if we wern't lol. now he had earned the respect he got and like magic turned up at the right place and the right time.
> those days are long long gone for the police and they have targets to achieve........the whole force is run by money men and not an ex plod who has earnt the right to know what it is that is required to do the job. same as the hospitals being run by trusts........same thing just a different profession. i know i am biased towards the police as many friends are plod and my neice is a biker in gloucester so i hear loads of how they feel about it, and am sympathetic to a job that despite simon disagreeing with me is very often a thankless job.


agreed.we used to be the same.we used to leg it if we even saw a cop car even though we hadnt done anything wrong.the country is going soft.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

c15 ttt said:


> simon.i obviously dont know what goes on inside the police force but what the tv shows are real policing.its not a drama series.as it happens i also have my own two eyes and have been able to see it in my local town.if a person can protect their home from a burglar using any force necessary then why cant the police.we wouldnt even have this problem if the divs in wigs would lock these idiots up.its a waste of time and money.


ahh there in lies the problem!!! those divs in wigs have to abide by the lord chancellor's rulings, and as you rightly say lock them up!! but where? we don't have enough prisons for them...........lets build some more then, oh we can't afford it.
if society behaved in a manner that lets say was a live and let live where these petty crimes were never happening. i doubt we would need half of the police we have now at present. if it takes four officers to arrest some drunken yob and get him gone quickly off the streets then so be it, however quite often one or two of the four have to very quickly do crowd control due to the other nissed up lot wanting to have their input.
we could go round and round in circles on different scenarios of the current force and get no-where fast. the thing is we need a modern force to deal with modern society and it has to be paid for, one way or another!!!

(right am off home as its flipping freezing here and my work is done) see ya all later on home lappy


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

c15 ttt said:


> simon.i obviously dont know what goes on inside the police force but what the tv shows are real policing.its not a drama series.as it happens i also have my own two eyes


 What the TV shows is glamourised acts of victory against crime. 
Cops with money spent on equipment and a Robo cop attitude from "Chris and Simon"...... 
Lets use Chris and Simon as an example. An episode that is frequently showed displays them coming down heavy on a driver with excessive amount of people in the car, no licence, no insurance, no tax and to top it off he became violent. 
How many forms and silly bits of paper do you think followed that one tug mate?

These program's show 5% face value of what "policing" is. 
It's nothing against these program's mate. Sure the good times are. But in reality.... No. Just no.


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## c15 ttt (Dec 3, 2010)

theres another problem highlighted.too much paperwork.my car was broken into and an atempted twoc.then my van was broken into and tools nicked.the copper came,said we know who it was but they are under age so cant do anything but then had to sit for half an hour filling in reports.then they said they had to go back and do more paperwork at the nick.surely some sort of civilian support team could do stuff like that or specials.it must spoil the enjoyment of doing the job.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

c15 ttt said:


> theres another problem highlighted.too much paperwork.my car was broken into and an atempted twoc.then my van was broken into and tools nicked.the copper came,said we know who it was but they are under age so cant do anything but then had to sit for half an hour filling in reports.then they said they had to go back and do more paperwork at the nick.surely some sort of civilian support team could do stuff like that or specials.it must spoil the enjoyment of doing the job.


Can you imagine simon's reports lol ....would have to redo them several times due to spelling mistakes :roll: 
Joking si, honest m8 lol


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## c15 ttt (Dec 3, 2010)

.


Gazzer said:


> c15 ttt said:
> 
> 
> > theres another problem highlighted.too much paperwork.my car was broken into and an atempted twoc.then my van was broken into and tools nicked.the copper came,said we know who it was but they are under age so cant do anything but then had to sit for half an hour filling in reports.then they said they had to go back and do more paperwork at the nick.surely some sort of civilian support team could do stuff like that or specials.it must spoil the enjoyment of doing the job.
> ...


 :lol: its all fun


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Gazzer said:


> c15 ttt said:
> 
> 
> > theres another problem highlighted.too much paperwork.my car was broken into and an atempted twoc.then my van was broken into and tools nicked.the copper came,said we know who it was but they are under age so cant do anything but then had to sit for half an hour filling in reports.then they said they had to go back and do more paperwork at the nick.surely some sort of civilian support team could do stuff like that or specials.it must spoil the enjoyment of doing the job.
> ...


Taken on the chin bud. 
I'm dyslexic and I have said before. I really do appreciate the extra mile people on here go to reading my posts.

As for work I use dragon type.


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## c15 ttt (Dec 3, 2010)

i knew that simon.you have said before mate.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

c15 ttt said:


> theres another problem highlighted.too much paperwork.my car was broken into and an atempted twoc.then my van was broken into and tools nicked.the copper came,said we know who it was but they are under age so cant do anything but then had to sit for half an hour filling in reports.then they said they had to go back and do more paperwork at the nick.surely some sort of civilian support team could do stuff like that or specials.it must spoil the enjoyment of doing the job.


Exactly .... This is exactly what the case stands on.. With what money would these extra civilians be paid? 
As for the specials. One o the best moves the police force has made in the last 40 years. The paper work is just as straining for them as it is any other.

PCSOs however.... Is a topic I don't wish to go into. 
As I stand the risk of seriously offending someone.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

c15 ttt said:


> i knew that simon.you have said before mate.


I tend to keep it wrapped up but iv found it only gets me a bad rep on forums if I don't fess up.

Doesn't change who I am. Just makes me come across as a bit of a dunce sometimes.

I try to broaden my vocabulary some what in an attempt to come across a bit more switched on lol.


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## c15 ttt (Dec 3, 2010)

do specials get paid?was it not voluntary then onto a basic pay.cant remember


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

simno44 said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > c15 ttt said:
> ...


Oh sorry bud I honestly didn't know.....gazz puts his size 11 foot in it again


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

c15 ttt said:


> do specials get paid?was it not voluntary then onto a basic pay.cant remember


No they don't mate. Other than travel expenses but the work they do is just as strenuous as the regulars. But voluntary and done during days off from the day job.

Where as the PCSO walks around with a lob on, tutting and frutting with no backing other than a finger to wave and a radio to tell a tail while being paid... 
Must not go into that 
Must not go into that 
Must not go into that 
Must not go into that
Must not go into that 
Cough -))POINTLESS((- Cough
Must not go into that


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Gazzer said:


> simno44 said:
> 
> 
> > Gazzer said:
> ...


No seriously it's fine lol. 
Your not wrong. Written reports are not fun lol.

I made up for my dyslexia on the rugby fields at school lol.


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## Fab 4 TT (Sep 28, 2004)

roddy said:


> simno44 said:
> 
> 
> > roddy said:
> ...


http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/fatals.htm

173 deaths in the uk through all employment sectors from 28.8 million people - 1 in every 166,666 fisherman, farmers etc are killed each year

http://www.dasa.mod.uk/modintranet/UKDS/UKDS2011/c3/table301.php

187 deaths in the armed forces in 2010 from 0.22 million active personnel - 1 in 1176 soldiers are killed each year.

So you are 141 times more likely to be killed in the armed forces than in an employed capacity in the uk.

Can someone please check my calc's?

Apologise if they're incorrect, I do this for free.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Fab 4 TT said:


> roddy said:
> 
> 
> > simno44 said:
> ...


I hope you don't mind.. I actually tuck the time to do some maths of my own.








vs

















Vs
















vs









No jokes though.... Fishing is a bitch. You get wet and everything.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

To be fair to Roddy si, the North Sea fishermen once on a catch can be awake for over 30 plus hours with continual physical work within a team. Mess up and someone gets hurt. Just thought I would mention it


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Gazzer said:


> To be fair to Roddy si, the North Sea fishermen once on a catch can be awake for over 30 plus hours with continual physical work within a team. Mess up and someone gets hurt. Just thought I would mention it


I know mate I'm only playing. But his contribution to this thread was a bit lame. 
It's no different to any job that comes with a threat mate. But the difference is they work bloody hard and reap the rewards....


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Yeah I know bud, doesn't matter how hard you work, you will have to take a knife or gunshot to get recognition. Am hoping the new chief super for Gloucestershire ( a woman) will think about my offer of a meal for an outstanding cop of the month we talked about in a different thread


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## GoTeamGb2012 (Dec 27, 2012)

Very interesting thread and I can see various points and arguments made by some but before I say anything I thought I would add a little figures to the thread to see what people's gut reactions are to salaries etc. Below are the starting salaries, roughly for the police, army, EMT and firemen:

Police £19000 (which includes £4k cut for 2013)
Fire Service £21000~
Ambulance/Medic £16000-19000~ skill level depending
Army £17000~

Correct me if I am wrong which I no doubt am but you get the idea. Be interesting to see what people think on that as a whole. As tax payers we pay for it all so have your say.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Pass, i wouldn't know starting salaries, but if you take the 4k off the police starting then it isn't looking good


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## Jordan282 (Sep 21, 2012)

simno44 said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > To be fair to Roddy si, the North Sea fishermen once on a catch can be awake for over 30 plus hours with continual physical work within a team. Mess up and someone gets hurt. Just thought I would mention it
> ...


I think what is lame, is that you started a thread to hear different opinions from people about that cuts to the police officer starting salary. And your argument against the cut was that it is a dangerous job? It has got to be possibly one of the most pathetic arguments I have ever heard. Therefore, when some one does post up a reply with genuine statistics in it, your are proven to look quite silly and therefore make a joke out of other people opinions. The problem with this country is that this is the kind of narrow minded attitude we are up against.. I won't go too far in to it because I know for a fact that you can not win against you people, usually the people who are doing these jobs in fact as they quite clearly have too much time on there hands.

Again I can't stress enough that this is not aimed at all people in these sectors of employment as there are plenty of very intelligent people there who can listen to other views and give valid arguments in return


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Gazzer said:


> Pass, i wouldn't know starting salaries, but if you take the 4k off the police starting then it isn't looking good


Gaz. 
Go team has taken into account the -4k. It would have been 23. On a very very lose average.


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## Jordan282 (Sep 21, 2012)

Gazzer said:


> Pass, i wouldn't know starting salaries, but if you take the 4k off the police starting then it isn't looking good


No, as unbelievable as it is, the police will be taking the £4k cut and THEN being on £19000 a year. So actually, I would say its looking fantastic for them even still


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Jordan282 said:


> simno44 said:
> 
> 
> > Gazzer said:
> ...


Stop chocking and just say what your trying to get out pall...

I'm listening to views and I have taken loads on board.

Your actually incorrect. My argument against the cuts has no coronation to the risk of the job. 
But in fact the injustice against one side of the page suffering where others Benefit. 
The fisherman here can be compared to that of the telesales operator.

Yes he works hard. Yes he works long long dangerous hours catching fish (ad pathetic as i personally feel that argument to be as the fish mean him no bodily harm.... but he also works seasonal periods. He's also not reviving a decAde long pay freeze on top of cuts in his sector and a 4k pay decrease. 
Can you see why I don't feel these two are comparable?

The more recent post comparing pay rates of 
Police
Fire
Armed 
Paramedic 
Is much more appropriate.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Jordan, I hear you and can feel the tenseness in your typing bud. No serving copper in the uk would ever evaluate what they do compared with the armed forces in danger or pay structure.....well I bloody well hope not!!!! 
One of the bravo 2 zero lot lived less than 10 seconds from my front door ( dinger) he is ex now but I still won't post his name just in case. Well him and a few other boys in your game are friends and I hear how it is.....you have my full respect in that job. However this is home land and our day to day protection is plod m8. So we use what we have as best as can be and I for one am gratefull to them and to you bud


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Jordan282 said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > Pass, i wouldn't know starting salaries, but if you take the 4k off the police starting then it isn't looking good
> ...


Lol I started in sales 9 years ago on 23k, so it isn't that good


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## Jordan282 (Sep 21, 2012)

Apologies for me writing in a way that portrays every bit of information I want to get across, but I don't quite understand why you have taken the fisherman comment so literally? Yes that was a slightly poor comparison but the message as a whole, had a good point.

The other post about the different salaries for the different jobs is a good comment, and surely one that shows all of the police disagreeing with the cut that clearly they aren't quite doing as bad as they might think in the scheme of things. Being the second highest payed out of all public services even after a 4k pay cut.

Don't you think? And that's in all seriousness... Not just to cause more argument


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## Jordan282 (Sep 21, 2012)

Gazzer said:


> Jordan, I hear you and can feel the tenseness in your typing bud. No serving copper in the uk would ever evaluate what they do compared with the armed forces in danger or pay structure.....well I bloody well hope not!!!!
> One of the bravo 2 zero lot lived less than 10 seconds from my front door ( dinger) he is ex now but I still won't post his name just in case. Well him and a few other boys in your game are friends and I hear how it is.....you have my full respect in that job. However this is home land and our day to day protection is plod m8. So we use what we have as best as can be and I for one am gratefull to them and to you bud


I completely agree with everything your saying there, I don't want to sound like I'm not grateful for the police as I certainly am! I'm just saying that (referring to your next post) that you are right in saying £19k a year is not a lot and you would get more in sales. But if you do a job based on the salary then you probably should be in sales in the first place! I love my job but I don't think I'll be in it for the rest of my life as later on I would like a higher pay, and therefore the public sector isn't suited. I don't think it should be an extremely high payed job as like someone said earlier in the thread, you would then get people joining purely for the money and the heart would not be where it should be in the job at hand


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Jordan282 said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > Pass, i wouldn't know starting salaries, but if you take the 4k off the police starting then it isn't looking good
> ...


I will be very careful with what I am about to say and I hope it comes across in the most appropriate manor.

I want to compare our police with the armed forces. 
17k starting for forces
19k for police.

I respect that as an army figure he or she pays taxes, bills etc as we all do
However while on tour expenses to an abrupt minimum for this person and living costs are paid for by the state, he/she is cared for to the best ability of our service and incase of any family (as far as I know) receives an extra benefit where children are concerned (I may be corrected on that) 
Given that this persons life becomes the army for however long they Are fighting our fony war. There expense back at home is to a minimum

Where as.. A police officer.. Working 12+ hour days 5-6 days a week also has to fund his own living, home life and costs not to mention the roof over his head he or she has no benefit or aid in tax... All of the above naturally cost that extra 2k very very easily.

The risks between the two professions are not really comparable however. And I do feel personally that the army is under paid and under resourced.

Given the living circumstances of each I feel the higher amount to police makes perfect sense.

Now i can hear you shouting about the wife and kids at home of the army service man. Yep.. thats Right. While out fighting the war her or she may indeed have a partner and children at home but that should not really be taken into consideration when pitching living expenses of the two jobs against one another. Purely due to the act that they are an additional accessory.

As manager of a petrol station for Exxon Mobil I was frequently reminded tht family always comes first. However if family contradicts with me achieving required targets and goals in the work place then it is my responsibility to ether plan my work v home balance more appropriately. Or find a new job.. This is relative to the army.

The partner of a police officer goes out into the world and does his/her own job and returns to cool tea for the kids after school. 
As harsh as the matter is.. There is nothing preventing the wife/husband of serving army personnel doing exactly the same.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Jordan282 said:


> Apologies for me writing in a way that portrays every bit of information I want to get across, but I don't quite understand why you have taken the fisherman comment so literally? Yes that was a slightly poor comparison but the message as a whole, had a good point.
> 
> The other post about the different salaries for the different jobs is a good comment, and surely one that shows all of the police disagreeing with the cut that clearly they aren't quite doing as bad as they might think in the scheme of things. Being the second highest payed out of all public services even after a 4k pay cut.
> 
> Don't you think? And that's in all seriousness... Not just to cause more argument


That's a reasonable view.

My reply would be ok. I can accept that but rather than pin one subject against the notice board why not take 1k from each.

Despite my view on the old fridge salesman. That would be a great deal more appropriate and fair to a degree.


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## Jordan282 (Sep 21, 2012)

Living costs for the army and police force I believe are actually very similar, we pay for our accommodation here on base still. Yet most do choose to have a house of their own to try and live as normal life as possible. As yes, we are given accommodation here that is cheap, however, would you not expect it to be a little cheaper when you could be in a room of up to 12 people? Going all the way down to, if your lucky, a single room (which then costs is more to live in). Your correct in saying that accommodation is given to us for free when on tour, however, this is literally a tent in the middle of a war zone at the end of the day. I can't comment on the child at home thing, as I don't have any children so have no idea! But what a lot of people don't know is that at the time when oh go on tour, while bills go down, other bills go up, as we are forced to pay life insurance, kit insurance etc.

Forgetting about the technicalities of the job though, all I'm saying is they aren't very different when it comes to the bills at the end of the month. We are treated well (to an extent) but as I'm sure is the same with most jobs, it's never quite as good as you first think when you look at all the deductions on your payslip, and I think I speak for everyone there!


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## Jordan282 (Sep 21, 2012)

Jesus.. I never know how much I'm writing when I started rambling on! Sorry for the essays, I think I get too carried away with these arguments! I better get to sleep


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

simno44 said:


> Jordan282 said:
> 
> 
> > Gazzer said:
> ...


I can appreciate that this post may come across wrong. And I'm sorry for that. I'm trying to portray an image and I can't find the words to do so. 
My point is that the living costs of 
Army service personal against police officers and indeed similar such as fire and rescue. Are very very different.

If you take all accessory out of the equation. 
You take one 24 year old male. 
Put him in an army uniform and he can devote his life to his calling. No need to rent a place as he's out fighting for months and months at a time. He pays no bills as a result and comes home to 17k having not spent a penny of it in his time fighting for our country. Well played that man!

Where as on the flip side if you slip him into a police uniform
It Goes without saying, Less risk involved. 
Works shifts and gets to go to the pub on his rest days but has to fund a
Home, bills, council tax, living expenses, fuel costs, not to mention food costs and the list goes on and on and on.

Naturally the personal costs of serving and living self sufficient on home soil. Costs a great deal more than the alternative.

Put it this way. The duplex apartment I currently live in... Bills, rent and tax all included. Costs me just over 1k a month. 
That's before iv paid my income tax, my food costs, my car insurance, fuel and 6monthly car tax. And it's before I buy the cloths I stand in and pay the student loan I still have outstanding 5 years on. And that's just the start.

As an example Take that away from a 19k figure over a 12 month period. 
Now I'm no mathematic wiz. But the future is certainly not bright.

:/


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Jordan282 said:


> Living costs for the army and police force I believe are actually very similar, we pay for our accommodation here on base still. Yet most do choose to have a house of their own to try and live as normal life as possible. As yes, we are given accommodation here that is cheap, however, would you not expect it to be a little cheaper when you could be in a room of up to 12 people? Going all the way down to, if your lucky, a single room (which then costs is more to live in). Your correct in saying that accommodation is given to us for free when on tour, however, this is literally a tent in the middle of a war zone at the end of the day. I can't comment on the child at home thing, as I don't have any children so have no idea! But what a lot of people don't know is that at the time when oh go on tour, while bills go down, other bills go up, as we are forced to pay life insurance, kit insurance etc.
> 
> Forgetting about the technicalities of the job though, all I'm saying is they aren't very different when it comes to the bills at the end of the month. We are treated well (to an extent) but as I'm sure is the same with most jobs, it's never quite as good as you first think when you look at all the deductions on your payslip, and I think I speak for everyone there!


Going by this post Jordan. Would I be fair to say that in actual fact.. The roles are indeed quite relative and "just"?

You have put me straight on living when off tour. That's a new one to me an it makes more sense now. In pleased things are marginally reduced for you in respect also.
It's deserved.


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## Jordan282 (Sep 21, 2012)

Basically, I don't think I know enough about the other jobs to make a final decision on what is right and what is wrong.. By the looks of it, the only way to find out what a different job is really like is to actually do it! And no one can do all of these jobs, which is why no one can agree with each other. But yes I do think its all relative, like you say


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Jordan282 said:


> Jesus.. I never know how much I'm writing when I started rambling on! Sorry for the essays, I think I get too carried away with these arguments! I better get to sleep


Not arguments mate. 
I waffle my self most of the time.

Here is Something that you may find touching..

My mum is a worryer she is frequently telling me 
"one day.. simon.. you will walk down the street and will be met by a troglodyte with a gun and you will have nowhere to run.. "

To witch my dad replies.
" heather.. it could be worse. He could be in afghan... The Troglodytes from south leeds tend to hold there "peice" sideways.. Speak backwards and talk about "money and tings".... Where as the Al Qaeda boys talk no talk, have super size weapons and what's more.. They tend to be pretty clued up on how to use them.. 
Also the worst thing Simon is going to step on while running down a "yob" outside rehab is a discarded Big Mac wrapper... They play with my insides for sure but at least they stay intact."

The legend that is my old man!


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Jordan282 said:


> Basically, I don't think I know enough about the other jobs to make a final decision on what is right and what is wrong.. By the looks of it, the only way to find out what a different job is really like is to actually do it! And no one can do all of these jobs, which is why no one can agree with each other. But yes I do think its all relative, like you say


Maybe they actually have it right for those two at least then.

I mean don't get me wrong. I think both are missing an extra 10 k at least. But in comparison with economy and each other. Maybe relative cost and living is amendable to them both.

Iv got to hold my hands up to you mate (assuming your serving) 
Il be brutally honest here. When I hear news of another man fallen I genuinely have to hold tears back. 
I'm an emotional person and even just righting this now brings a tear.

You and your boys are the pride of our country right now. 
And I emphasise each and every word when I say in respect of those close to you that you have lost or may lose in the closing scenes.

Just As we remember those fallen many many decades ago

We will remember them!


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## Mike007 (Aug 15, 2012)

Morning. I've tried like mad not to come into this thread but it' no use. I'm sure anyone would when they see people writing about a job that you do. If I'm honest I don't like threads like this on car forums but hey ho thats the joys of forums. 
For the record I was in the Army for 14 years and now I have been on front line policing for 20 years covering response.I think that qualifies me to comment on both jobs. When this thread was posted I thought it would descend into a massive row and i'm pleased to see it hasn't. 
I have to say that reading some of the comments on here make me laugh. Clearly I'm going to defend the Police to a certain point. But lets be clear i'm in no way job p-ssed.
To deal with the original thread about cutting the salary. The issue with cutting the pay to 19k a year will have an effect on British policing in the long term. The Police HAVE to recruit all ages of applicants. You can join the police at 50/55 years old believe it or not. 19k to a young person who has just left college or similar then that may be very good pay to them. But to the 45/50 year old applicant, married with 2 kids and a mortgage then sorry 19k is pants. And this is my point. The public deserve excellent service from the police and yes I know very well that they don't always get it. The government need to attract all ages of applicants into the police. It's vital to have a broad range of life experience in policing. Police officers are bog standard humans. They receive some training when they join up and out they go onto the streets. Most officers will use their own life experiences within the roll they do in the police. For this reason we need young and old on a shift. No good with 10 young officers or ten old ones. For it to work correctly and offer a fair and balanced service its important to have this broad range of experience in Life as well as police service. So offering 19k starting pay is all very good for the government and to people who think the police don't even deserve that. But how on earth will we attract the older person to join the police. We simple won't and in my opinion policing will suffer as a result. You may not believe me and it may take a few years but it will.

To cover some comments made on here. 
Yes police officers nationally are singled crewed on earlies and lates. They double crew on nights. This is being reviewed and they are looking into single crews on nights in some forces. That is simple madness. 
Needing 7 officers to arrest one person has been covered. Made me laugh that. Clearly the person who wrote that has never been in a fight. If he had he wouldn't have written that. He also doesn't understand the law. When a person male or female is being violent and they will fight you then it needs those officers to arrest them with minimum injuries to officers and the person. I'm quite happy to use such force as is reasonable necessary. However, If an officer uses lawful force and injures the prisoner during the arrest if that prisoner then makes a complaint then the officer has a criminal investigation against them. This can and does involve being suspended from work and then being put through the whole criminal prosecution process. This is very common and officer maybe suspended for 2 years whilst they carry out an investigation. Believe me thousands of complaints are made every year. So although I am and do use force where required if the person is violent I will always try and go for the lots of officers scenerio every time. Keeps injuries to a minimum and we all go home safe.

I am without doubt a massive supporter of our Armed forces. They don't get anywhere enough support from the government. I think that the Army is doing a fantastic job world wide and I know how tough things are in Iraq and especially Afgan.

I don't think you can compare the Army pay to the Police pay if I'm honest. Firstly the vast majority of recruits joining the Army are very young. 16 to 20 years old max. The Army don't recruit the older person generally speaking. Very rare to get a man or woman apply who is married with two kids. So starting pay for a younger person is relative so to speak. A single person living on camp pays next to nothing for food and accommodation. The married person gets a house or flat alot cheaper than you would have to pay if it was rented from the public.

I know how hard it is to go away on tour and be away from the family etc. However, When the Regiment aren't on active service life is pretty good. Monday to friday 8 to 4 generally speaking. Time of to pursue your sport. Away adventure training, skiing trips. And best of all the tours to warmer climates. Generally speaking life is great in the Army and you see some lovely parts of the world. British forces based in Germany enjoy tax free goods. Petrol is without tax and vat. Cars are half price everything is cheap as the British forces don't have to pay tax on any goods costing more than around £30 quid whilst in Germany. 
So unless your particular regiment is on active tour day to day life in the Army isn't dangerous in anyway.

So to compare starting salaries between the Police and Army is incorrect. The army really earn their money massively when on active tours but otherwise it's a normal safe job. The New police recruit is treated no different than an officer with 20 years in and faces danger on a daily basis for the next 35 years.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

well put mike


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Sim , maybe you should take your own advice about not judging other profesions about which you obviously know nothing ,,,, fishermen being an example ,,, seasonal fishing ? ,,starting salary ? , no cuts. ? Etc,,where do you get your news from ?, honestly mate I think you should stick to the boys own hero worshiping daily mail sensationalisim which you seem best at ,,,, looking back at one of your early posts I am glad to see that you are only joking , sometimes I thot you were being serious !!!!!!
My self I don't know how dangerous it is walking down a dark street in Leeds , or when you have invaded a foreign country so that your paymasters can steal as much of the wealth of that county or to arrange the political regime in a way that suits and the indiginous people are fighting back in any way that they can, so I will not judge ,,, but I do know what it is like to work non stop for days on a fishing boat , sometimes for no pay . This point may not have much reflection on the short haird polie cadets starting pay , I am only comenting on the aspects of the post which I have some knowledge of, lame you may consider it .


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

+1


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## c15 ttt (Dec 3, 2010)

mike.what has my fighting history got to do with me saying that i dont think it should take 6 or 7 police officers to arrest 1 person.its common sense.no,i dont understand the law cos im not a copper.the thread invited people to ``have your say``.thats what we are doing.if you lot are frightened to arrest someone who is resisting case you get your wrist slapped then you want to be looking in the mirror as a police force.again pc and human rights gone mad.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

c15 ttt said:


> mike.what has my fighting history got to do with me saying that i dont think it should take 6 or 7 police officers to arrest 1 person.its common sense.no,i dont understand the law cos im not a copper.the thread invited people to ``have your say``.thats what we are doing.if you lot are frightened to arrest someone who is resisting case you get your wrist slapped then you want to be looking in the mirror as a police force.again pc and human rights gone mad.


Contradiction. 
You say PC and human rights gone mad..yet we are not responsible for this mate...

Policing is not about "retaliation". 
Did your parents ever teach you two wrongs don't make a right?

The police follow orders. And the orders that are given are to use appropriate force NOT Equal force.

This is the British police force your talking about mate. Boasted the best in the world. I fight to keep it that way. And unnecessary levels of force upon one individual from another. Is not how it's done buddy. 
Working in any area such as this is about working as a team where ever possible. 
Restraint in numbers Is a very quick and efficient method of inflicting as little strain as possible not only on the person under arrest or restraint but also to that of the officers involved.

"being frightened to arrest someone who is resisting because we will get our wrist slapped" could not be a less appropriate view. 
I wouldn't like to say how I would feel if i was given the go ahead to use lethal force on a regular basis in one on one situations... I'm not a cage fighter.. I'm an officer..
But to squeeze this into context.. Your suggestion of excessive force in today's policing. In many situations would not end with an officer having his wrist slapped. It would end with a broken man, who has but his all and his life into a job that he loved. Only to have been chewed up, spat out and left with no job, little prospect and a serious criminal charge to his name.

This is serious mate. 
May I ask what you do for a living bud?


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Hope he's not a bloody fisherman!!! Or Roddy will be off on one again :lol:


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Hehe.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

. Ha ha ha


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## BrianR (Oct 12, 2011)

> So recruitment is not going to be a problem (not even the quality of recruits, given the high levels of unemployment amongst the young - even graduates), but I anticipate that retention certainly will be. I think the government have seriously misjudged the situation.


[/quote]

For what its worth I dont think they have misjudged anything. I think they know exactly what they are doing and that is to share the burden of cuts around, accepting that the service wont be as good, in the knowledge that if you dont like it there will always be someone willing to fill the boots you wear for half your pay. The mistake is that crime is on the increase; through the capatalist system that plays on our greed and lack of personal values, they have creasted a demand, need and expectation for the good things in life and just because folk aren;t working, that need doesnt go away - crime will soar and we will need police men and women more than ever. This has been happening in private business for about four years though - millions losing their jobs - millions of others being downgraded in pay or not receiving pay increases, at a time when everything around them, the very means of existing, heat, light, food is being increased. In private industry we have had to adapt and change, have had to learn new skills and work harder. It isn;t the goverment or their rich supporters who suffer, it is jo public who will be mugged, burgled, conned, or even murdered. We are all expendable in hard times - nut we are not all in this togtehr thats for sure. But whilst jo public are busy buying into the diversionary tactics being spewed out by the capatalist regime and blaming the very people they should be supporting, it will always be this way. I feel sorry for the average copper, but I also feel sorry for everyone else who has been and is going through this. 2000 more scoungers joined the dole queue this week (or that is how they will be being described pretty soon by some. Good upstanding proud people, driven onto a dole queue and some of them into crime. We are all victims at the end of the day. Just my view and I shouldnt even be here, I promised myself a rest :lol:


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

BrianR said:


> > So recruitment is not going to be a problem (not even the quality of recruits, given the high levels of unemployment amongst the young - even graduates), but I anticipate that retention certainly will be. I think the government have seriously misjudged the situation.


For what its worth I dont think they have misjudged anything. I think they know exactly what they are doing and that is to share the burden of cuts around, accepting that the service wont be as good, in the knowledge that if you dont like it there will always be someone willing to fill the boots you wear for half your pay. The mistake is that crime is on the increase; through the capatalist system that plays on our greed and lack of personal values, they have creasted a demand, need and expectation for the good things in life and just because folk aren;t working, that need doesnt go away - crime will soar and we will need police men and women more than ever. This has been happening in private business for about four years though - millions losing their jobs - millions of others being downgraded in pay or not receiving pay increases, at a time when everything around them, the very means of existing, heat, light, food is being increased. In private industry we have had to adapt and change, have had to learn new skills and work harder. It isn;t the goverment or their rich supporters who suffer, it is jo public who will be mugged, burgled, conned, or even murdered. We are all expendable in hard times - nut we are not all in this togtehr thats for sure. But whilst jo public are busy buying into the diversionary tactics being spewed out by the capatalist regime and blaming the very people they should be supporting, it will always be this way. I feel sorry for the average copper, but I also feel sorry for everyone else who has been and is going through this. 2000 more scoungers joined the dole queue this week (or that is how they will be being described pretty soon by some. Good upstanding proud people, driven onto a dole queue and some of them into crime. We are all victims at the end of the day. Just my view and I shouldnt even be here, I promised myself a rest :lol:[/quote]

Very well worded. 
But is a direct and very abrupt 4k slash on an established annual wage.. Really "sharing the burden of cuts" as you put it? Bearing in mind the already instigated pay freeze that will stand for the next 4 years at least and the cuts to training that have already played their part? 
Your talking about a over a 5th of one professions starting salary.

Don't get me wrong I could accept so much. 
The freeze - accepted
Numerous funding cuts - bearable
An extra 4k personal loss - really???

If you can give me a handful of good comparable cuts to the public sector over and above freezing wages then I will eat my words. Mate. .


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

I can see where Brian is coming from (welcome back mucker) in his post, all dedicated officers will lump it if they can live with this additional burden. Others may choose to moonlight or even look for other jobs........what jobs? Either way it is in my view all about statistics and number crunching to them, a percentage here a statistic here. Report done to Theresa may and one meeting later bingo....signed sealed and soon to be delivered. So what if anything can be done to salvage this for the officers or the force as a whole? Bugger all until it comes to election time and money will be released again to look good


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

They could give me soft mints.... If still put my gear on provided I could live.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

I just happened to come across another situation worth mentioning that goes towards the explanation for more than one officer apprehending a suspect. 
Its something im surprised I hadent thought of.

Take a look at this mate. It's self explanatory. Here you see 7 of our finest, tacking one very irate man to the ground.. Over kill? 
Not when you read what the subtitle shows you is being called out by one of the officers. 









In the mans jacket was a loaded
Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm

And if the eagle eyed officer had not seen the man reaching for his pocket and if he had not made the call, One or more of these boys would not be serving today. 
A single officer would not stand a chance.

This is just a polite point for the method in witch things are done.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

this is the uk Si, not yanky land thank god........so this sort of thing is a rarity despite it becoming more frequent. so that incident doesn't really count bud, it isnt as if officers face guns daily. so forgive me but that comment was clutching at straws to justify something that had already been justified way back i think lol.
a better argument is that one officer tackling a suspect on their own risks injury and therfore a sudden end to the shift leaving others to pick up the can, so therfore more officers less chance of one getting hurt and everyone goes home end of shift safe and sound.

brrrrrrrrr office cold this morning dozy t*at gazz forgot to leave a radiator on.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Gazzer said:


> this is the uk Si, not yanky land thank god........so this sort of thing is a rarity despite it becoming more frequent. so that incident doesn't really count bud, it isnt as if officers face guns daily. so forgive me but that comment was clutching at straws to justify something that had already been justified way back i think lol.
> a better argument is that one officer tackling a suspect on their own risks injury and therfore a sudden end to the shift leaving others to pick up the can, so therfore more officers less chance of one getting hurt and everyone goes home end of shift safe and sound.
> 
> brrrrrrrrr office cold this morning dozy t*at gazz forgot to leave a radiator on.


Irregular occurrence or not gaz , should it not be said that the 1 in 100 times this may happen is further justification.

Face them daily no, but imitation is much more frequent. And you just never know.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

I agree bud, but imagine you are making a case for justification to your chief super for more officers. Would he buy that explanation in order to justify more officers?


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## c15 ttt (Dec 3, 2010)

gazza.you are obviously a wise man.your posts are all honest and true.simon...what are you waffling on about.you make out that police are some sort of elite super heroes that are saving the planet from the nasty villains and us mere mortals should bow down.im sure most coppers are doing a good job and i appreciate that.what are you talking about using excessive force.ive only said that it shouldnt take 6 or 7 people to arrest someone in case they get hurt.maybe 2 or 3 supports your arguement of enough people to do it safely.im not saying 1 person should have to do it although they would have a better chance if they built like a copper was originally meant to be like.i think coppers should always be in twos regardless for safety reasons.my point in this thread is that i agree that police should start on £19000 or whatever it is and that once they have proved themselves then they could be promoted and given the wages that you are wanting.this will be an incentive to do the job to the best of their abilty.also i still think that coppers should be of a minimum height and that the drive to employ women should be eased.i much prefer to see 2 big strong fellas patroling than 2 delicate women.its common sense.btw.im a plasterer.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

c15 ttt said:


> gazza.you are obviously a wise man.your posts are all honest and true.simon...what are you waffling on about.you make out that police are some sort of elite super heroes that are saving the planet from the nasty villains and us mere mortals should bow down.im sure most coppers are doing a good job and i appreciate that.what are you talking about using excessive force.ive only said that it shouldnt take 6 or 7 people to arrest someone in case they get hurt.maybe 2 or 3 supports your arguement of enough people to do it safely.im not saying 1 person should have to do it although they would have a better chance if they built like a copper was originally meant to be like.i think coppers should always be in twos regardless for safety reasons.my point in this thread is that i agree that police should start on £19000 or whatever it is and that once they have proved themselves then they could be promoted and given the wages that you are wanting.this will be an incentive to do the job to the best of their abilty.also i still think that coppers should be of a minimum height and that the drive to employ women should be eased.i much prefer to see 2 big strong fellas patroling than 2 delicate women.its common sense.btw.im a plasterer.


wise? hmmm spandy would argue that point i promise you lol........i just say it as i see it tbh. i see both sides and as i work for the police have a good respect for them mostly, odd ones a knob.....just like in every profession i guess. i also have family and close friends in the force, so i hear these chats often......old rope really to me.


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

c15 ttt said:


> gazza.you are obviously a wise man.your posts are all honest and true.simon...what are you waffling on about.you make out that police are some sort of elite super heroes that are saving the planet from the nasty villains and us mere mortals should bow down.im sure most coppers are doing a good job and i appreciate that.what are you talking about using excessive force.ive only said that it shouldnt take 6 or 7 people to arrest someone in case they get hurt.maybe 2 or 3 supports your arguement of enough people to do it safely.im not saying 1 person should have to do it although they would have a better chance if they built like a copper was originally meant to be like.i think coppers should always be in twos regardless for safety reasons.my point in this thread is that i agree that police should start on £19000 or whatever it is and that once they have proved themselves then they could be promoted and given the wages that you are wanting.this will be an incentive to do the job to the best of their abilty.also i still think that coppers should be of a minimum height and that the drive to employ women should be eased.i much prefer to see 2 big strong fellas patroling than 2 delicate women.its common sense.btw.im a plasterer.


Female police officers delicate?? Haha!!

I haven't made the police out to be anything they are not mate.

I was getting my back up a little because you where making out that using force in numbers was an outcome of officers being scared to use force alone to that of an equal measure at risk of being "told off"... In many situations you are alone and a much greater level of force is needed in order to protect ones Self let alone to apprehend and caution a crim.. 
Force in numbers is just a method used when its available... And your TV documentary 9 times in 10 is following "elite units" of numbers greater than 6.. So seeing group force is common place in that respect.

I wanted to try Use your profession as an example but plastering is more difficult than I had hoped for. (Good trade by the way)

I don't mean to waffle mate. I struggle to word what I am actually trying to say sometimes.

On your last post you sort of came half way to the acceptance of 2-3 people and state that you don't expect 1 officer to patrol and face this situation alone so that's appreciated. 
I suppose that's what I was trying to defend mostly.

I will agree that 19k is arguably a reasonable amount given that performance an progression does pay out as you move up the ladder. 
Especially when pitched aside the other public services. 
But then personally I would ask the question is a very abrupt drop of 4k not to much? That is a lot of money given that the now new figure of 19k is still to be frozen for the next 4 years at least. With inflation continuing as it does.


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## c15 ttt (Dec 3, 2010)

is it a drop in real terms.serving officers wont take a cut surely and people who want to join the force would know beforehand what the salary is so nobody is really losing.if they are ambitious then they will see pc as a stepping stone anyway.as said 19 grand is a decent starting point.i know some people are more than happy to sit at pc level and wait for their pension which is fair enough and 19 grand may not be enough long term but if they are happy to join and accept that theres no harm done.i just think that i would be inclined to achieve the next rank up if it meant a leap in wages.all good competition.


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## c15 ttt (Dec 3, 2010)

Gazzer said:


> c15 ttt said:
> 
> 
> > gazza.you are obviously a wise man.your posts are all honest and true.simon...what are you waffling on about.you make out that police are some sort of elite super heroes that are saving the planet from the nasty villains and us mere mortals should bow down.im sure most coppers are doing a good job and i appreciate that.what are you talking about using excessive force.ive only said that it shouldnt take 6 or 7 people to arrest someone in case they get hurt.maybe 2 or 3 supports your arguement of enough people to do it safely.im not saying 1 person should have to do it although they would have a better chance if they built like a copper was originally meant to be like.i think coppers should always be in twos regardless for safety reasons.my point in this thread is that i agree that police should start on £19000 or whatever it is and that once they have proved themselves then they could be promoted and given the wages that you are wanting.this will be an incentive to do the job to the best of their abilty.also i still think that coppers should be of a minimum height and that the drive to employ women should be eased.i much prefer to see 2 big strong fellas patroling than 2 delicate women.its common sense.btw.im a plasterer.
> ...


me too.my dad was a copper,my uncle,my auntie,stepsister and cousin so was brought up around coppers.i have respect for the police force but i must say it is decreasing slightly.its probs not aimed at coppers,more the whole system of catching criminals,saying naughty boy and letting them go.but thats a different can of worms that i havnt got the energy to discuss


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

c15 ttt said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > c15 ttt said:
> ...


Your auntie and stepsister?? Surely not, how dare they recruit woman folk

Tehee.


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## c15 ttt (Dec 3, 2010)

exactly.no one to bring up the kids and make the dinners  .my stepsister joined the force.married a copper.was in a police car accident and was paid off so she isnt one now.her kids are doing fine


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

c15 ttt said:


> exactly.no one to bring up the kids and make the dinners  .my stepsister joined the force.married a copper.was in a police car accident and was paid off so she isnt one now.her kids are doing fine


Was it because she was to small to drive properly?

On a serious note. Glad she's ok.


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## c15 ttt (Dec 3, 2010)

:lol: :lol: .funny.i wont respond.see ya mate


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

c15 ttt said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > c15 ttt said:
> ...


Ahh now bud that is a can of worms that miffs every serving officer too!!! Cps are an animal in their own right and are prepared to take less and less cases if the percentage chance of winning is below a certain point. So that shouldn't put you off the police in all honesty I think. It is probably one of the most frustrating jobs I can think off in the uk!!! Joe public wants burglars caught, cops catch em cps say no case......Grrrrr can u feel me mon ( it's a black thing) and that is yet another thread that would go maybe 5 pages then get locked lol ( gives me an idea for a bloody good next thread)


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## simno44 (Aug 25, 2012)

Gazzer said:


> c15 ttt said:
> 
> 
> > Gazzer said:
> ...


.... Do it!


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## c15 ttt (Dec 3, 2010)

unleash the beast :twisted:


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Is done ......


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