# comments on moderation rules



## stephengreen (May 6, 2002)

COMMENT BY DIRY:

This thread was originally part of the 'impressive driving' post.
http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... hp?t=25553

However, it has taken a wild left turn into something completly different.

Far from locking it, or deleting it, please feel free to continue your discussions in this one.

HOWEVER - Please be reminded that the usual rules still apply - no personal attacks etc - OK?

Thank you.
DIRY

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SteveS said:


> stephengreen said:
> 
> 
> > dont know why you would single out my posts
> ...


of course those that think that their always right would call it an argument
those that think they might be right would call it a debate
only people in the first group would end up with their backs up.
resorting to childish name calling doesnt further debate or argument and rather casts doubt on ability to do either
your opinion on what you find amusing has no relevance.
what is relevant is that posting false statments,PERSONAL attacks,and threads of a sexual nature are against forum rules.
now i accept of course that scottys post wasnt a malicious untrue posting but it shows that you can ban some threads and not others when rules are broken.
vlastan has been reprimanded for posting his thoughts
and recently the bmw and sex thread was locked.
i find it annoying that we are told what we can and cant read (i didnt care for vlastans threads so i chose not to read them,MY CHOICE)
and secondly that posts that break rules are selectively banned.
my picking out scottys post wasnt anything personal against him but a protest against the inconsistant application of forum rules(because he happens to be a moderater).its bad enough living in a "big brother" state, with the threat of id cardsand PC without getting censorship of thought and word, on a public forum too.people are allowed a view or an opinion you dont have to like or agree with it but its their right.this concept is accepted by some (take a bow DIRY) but others seem to think you should only post if you agree with them!
so do we ban all posts that break forum rules or only those that break rules posted by vlastan?


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

I don't think that Stephen Green is arguing by expressing his thoughts. He is not afraid to express his views that are different from other people views.

I share his views that I am always picked up for breaking forum rules when other's don't. We all break rules in here...but only I will be told off, which is not fair.

Either the rules apply to all or nobody. Either the rules are relaxed or are strictly enforced.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

If you have real concerns please forward them to Jae. He may not see your complaints in here. Once he's aware he can the take any actions if required.


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## SteveS (Oct 20, 2003)

stephengreen said:


> of course....... <snip>


Please just post something that isn't a bicker with something someone else has said for a change. Tell us whats good about your car, ask for advice on what to buy next time, why you like riding a bicycle.....anything really as long as it's not sitting on a hill taking pot-shots.


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Vlastan said:


> I don't think that Stephen Green is arguing by expressing his thoughts. He is not afraid to express his views that are different from other people views.
> 
> I share his views that I am always picked up for breaking forum rules when other's don't. We all break rules in here...but only I will be told off, which is not fair.
> 
> Either the rules apply to all or nobody. Either the rules are relaxed or are strictly enforced.





stephengreen said:


> of course those that think that their always right would call it an argument
> those that think they might be right would call it a debate
> only people in the first group would end up with their backs up.
> resorting to childish name calling doesnt further debate or argument and rather casts doubt on ability to do either
> ...


I don't think you've been around here long enough to appreciate why Vlastans post cause so much controversy.

There was a time when he would drag _virtually every subject off topic_ by posting some sort of reply related to anal sex. Most people found that very annoying and he was banned for a while for doing it.

Since then, things have improved, but he still seems to have a problem in that he cannot last for more than a week without posting something to do with sex. Draw your own conclusions from that.

Recently he's posted pictures of woman and told us where he'd like to stick his fingers, and pictures of F1 babes that degenerated into 9 pages of juvenile rubbish. Do you consider that acceptable behavoir? Would you stand up in the middle of a pub and start telling us that we should all be having anal sex? Would you dish out pictures of women and start telling us what you'd like to do to them? His reply is always if you don't like it don't read it. Not possible. Often his drag it off topic onto sex replies appear in the middle of a thread, or appear under an innocent looking post title ("What's wrong with this picture")

Re the forum guideline of no threads of a sexual nature - there is a big difference between having a laugh about sex, and not being too graphic (use your imagination, thats the fun of it) and coming out with all the gory details. I think that guideline needs to be re-written so as it does not exclude all topics on sex. I didn't see anything wrong with the BMW drivers get more sex thread, it could have been fun, but of course, as soon as you know who got involved... He is unique on this forum in that he simply does not understand the difference between what is acceptable, and what isn't.

Yes this is a public forum and anyone can post on it. But it's owned and run by a group of car enthusiasts, and, PC or not, they have the ultimate say in whats right and wrong. So hard luck.

StephenGreen or V - sorry if my post offends. If so, you can take your own advice and choose not to read any of my future posts :wink:


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## stephengreen (May 6, 2002)

PaulS said:


> I don't think you've been around here long enough to appreciate why Vlastans post cause so much controversy.


paul, at the risk of being accused of arguing ive been around a little longer than you.
if vlastans posts break the rules then fine they should be banned.but my point is that so should any other post that does.it comes across that he is singled out because his posts are offensive to some and not just because they break the rules
so again i ask the question which no one has answered do we ban all posts that break forum rules or only those that break rules posted by vlastan?
paul
you wrote" I think that guideline needs to be re-written so as it does not exclude all topics on sex"
this is the crux of the matter is it not.the rules forbid posts of a sexual nature yet it is broken all the time.forum members are setting themselves up as judge and jury over which posts are more offensive than others and then this lynch mob shouts loud enough until its banned.
i agree with you the rules should be re-written then they can be applied fairly and evenly by the people that wrote them
paul
you also asked me not to be offended by your post. be assured that no offence was taken, you are stating your point of view and opinion on a subject and i respect your right to do so.


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

stephengreen said:


> so again i ask the question which no one has answered do we ban all posts that break forum rules or only those that break rules posted by vlastan?


and I repeat again - this is probably not the best place to get an answer. Contact Jae if you want it considered. If not let it go.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

> I think that guideline needs to be re-written so as it does not exclude all topics on sex.


Have your raised your concerns with Jae about this? Telling us only what you think is not good enough as we can't change the guidelines.

And if the guidelines change, then how do we define which sex topics are fine for the forum and which aren't? My F1 thread was fine till I posted a few rude words. If it wasn't for these words, a lot of people were enjoying it and even YOU posted which woman you liked most.

So suggest us a fair way to moderate threads of sexual content.

You know very well that I don't talk about anal sex any longer in here. But it looks that anything that I post about sex, you find uncomfortable.

I can assure you that from now on if I catch anyone posting with sexual innuendo of any kind, I will personally report him to all the moderators and request that the post is deleted. Then and only then, this forum will be moderated in a fair way...because even you have posted sexual remarks before.

I have only reported someone once to KevinST about a personal attack and I was ignored before. Is it time you treat me fairly in this place?


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## stephengreen (May 6, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> stephengreen said:
> 
> 
> > so again i ask the question which no one has answered do we ban all posts that break forum rules or only those that break rules posted by vlastan?
> ...


 if i want to direct the question at forum members first then ive every right to.youve no right to direct me otherwise.and youve no right to tell me not to post.


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

COMMENT BY DIRY:

This thread was originally part of the 'impressive driving' post.
http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... hp?t=25553

However, it has taken a wild left turn into something completly different.

Far from locking it, or deleting it, please feel free to continue your discussions in this one.

HOWEVER - Please be reminded that the usual rules still apply - no personal attacks etc - OK?

Thank you.
DIRY


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

stephengreen said:


> paul, at the risk of being accused of arguing ive been around a little longer than you.


Indeed you have, so you'll know all about V's sending off. I just looked at your low post count and assumed that you were relatively new. 


stephengreen said:


> if vlastans posts break the rules then fine they should be banned.but my point is that so should any other post that do


I agree. 


stephengreen said:


> it comes across that he is singled out because his posts are offensive to some and not just because they break the rules





stephengreen said:


> so again i ask the question which no one has answered do we ban all posts that break forum rules or only those that break rules posted by vlastan?


I don't think it is possible, to define down to the last letter, what is acceptable, and what isn't, when it comes to posting about sex on here. Most people with a reasonable amount of intelligence and experience will understand where the boundary lies. It seems to me that V regularly oversteps this boundary, and that's why he gets moderated. 


stephengreen said:


> you wrote" I think that guideline needs to be re-written so as it does not exclude all topics on sex"
> this is the crux of the matter is it not.the rules forbid posts of a sexual nature yet it is broken all the time.


It's gets broken all the time because those posts dont cross that boundary that I mentioned. I think we agree that the 'no sex' guideline is too set in stone. But as I've said it's going to be very difficult to define it in exact words. It shouldn't be necessary to do it anyway, most people with a reasonable amount of intelligence ....



Vlastan said:


> Have your raised your concerns with Jae about this? Telling us only what you think is not good enough as we can't change the guidelines.


I think the guidelines only need changing for one person. 


Vlastan said:


> And if the guidelines change, then how do we define which sex topics are fine for the forum and which aren't? My F1 thread was fine till I posted a few rude words. If it wasn't for these words, a lot of people were enjoying it and even YOU posted which woman you liked most.


Why did you post a few rude words then? Yes I did post a reply on your thread, hoping it would turn into some fun, but you then dragged it down to gutter level.


Vlastan said:


> So suggest us a fair way to moderate threads of sexual content.


Common sense and decency.


Vlastan said:


> You know very well that I don't talk about anal sex any longer in here.


Why don't you talk about anal sex anymore? Have you just stopped doing it because you don't want to get banned again, or have you stopped doing it because it annoys people and is not appropriate for an open forum such as this? I suspect it's the former. 


Vlastan said:


> But it looks that anything that I post about sex, you find uncomfortable.


Total rubbish. It's just your style that I find uncomfortable. 


Vlastan said:


> I can assure you that from now on if I catch anyone posting with sexual innuendo of any kind, I will personally report him to all the moderators and request that the post is deleted. Then and only then, this forum will be moderated in a fair way...because even you have posted sexual remarks before.
> 
> I have only reported someone once to KevinST about a personal attack and I was ignored before. Is it time you treat me fairly in this place?


??


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

vlastan said:


> I have only reported someone once to KevinST about a personal attack and I was ignored before. Is it time you treat me fairly in this place?


I'm not sure I've read this correctly but if you are saying that your complaint to Kev was ignored then you are 100% incorrect.


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## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

wow - stand down as one of the admins of this site for just one week and all hell breaks loose (again) :roll:


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## jdn (Aug 26, 2002)

PaulS said:


> Recently he's posted pictures of woman and told us where he'd like to stick his fingers, and pictures of F1 babes that degenerated into 9 pages of juvenile rubbish. Do you consider that acceptable behavoir? Would you stand up in the middle of a pub and start telling us that we should all be having anal sex? Would you dish out pictures of women and start telling us what you'd like to do to them? His reply is always if you don't like it don't read it. Not possible. Often his drag it off topic onto sex replies appear in the middle of a thread, or appear under an innocent looking post title ("What's wrong with this picture")


I hesitate to join this thread as it seems to have been started on the basis of a completely pointless argument based on pedantic over-reading of what was a good link post.

I am also acutely aware of the forum rules on personal attacks.

Having said that, I am prepared to state I agree completely with PaulS post, particularly the part about threads being dragged off topic by Vlastan (alhtough not only Vlastan I might add). I posted what I thought was an interesting poll a few weeks back (Here ) about forum personalities, and hoped it would run for a while and lead to a discussion of online personas vs real life. However it was rapidly dragged into a discussions of a sexual nature, far removed from the thread topic. Plenty of people replied with humerous replies, which were fine. However after two posts by Abi and Vlastan it was debased to talk of sex dolls. I vainly attempted to drag it back on topic with no success.

Perhaps it was a bad idea for a poll, and was simply unpopular. Or maybe people were put off reading the whole thread by these unsuitable (for that thread) posts. I am not sure. Either way, my view is that such posts should be kept to their own clearly described thread, where people can choose to read them, and not in unrelated threads where people may 'stumble upon' them, and it will disrupt the topic.

I gather there is a new thread splitting feature available - perhaps if a thread is dragged off topic rapidly with 'thread innapropriate' postings (especially if sexual) a moderator could be requested to split it back into the original thread, and deposit the remainder into a generic 'innapropriate sexual posting' thread in the flame room. That way people can read the thread as appropriate, and only choose to read the other posts if they so wish. If that option had been available a few weeks ago I would have asked for my poll thread to be split in such a manner, and hoped it may have lead to more meaningful off topic - but not sexual - discussions.


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

Right then.

I've just gone back through this thread and removed yet more personal attacks from it.

I've left in one or two which are more in the way of comments - if I remove them ALL I might as well delete the entire thread :evil:

HOWEVER - If any of the remaining posts left offend anyone (ie they feel that they are being attacked), please IM me, and I'll get shot of those too.

I will repeat this one more time - personal attacks are NOT to be posted.

Thank you.


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

Woooohooooooo great when you guys bitch!  :wink: . Can I supply the mud please :lol: :wink:


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

think that there is plenty of mud being thrown around already Abi 

Perhaps I should re-open my virtual handbag factory :?

So - anyone want to make any further *constructive* comments about moderation?
(Aimed at the world in general that one)


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## Rogue (Jun 15, 2003)

How about an area (like Off Topic) which remains un-moderated?
That way, people who are easily offended simply don't have to view posts in this new area.

Moderation has it's place, but I am also a member of a forum that is totally un-moderated, and whenever there is a personal attack on it, it eventually just fizzles out.

At the end of the day, we're all adults (well, most of us  ) and we have to accept that some people like swearing, some like talking about sex.
It's just a fact of life, and trying to STOP someone from doing it will just make them want to do it even more.

That's just human nature.

Just my 2 pence worth 

Rogue


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

Just self moderate your own postings - we are (supposedly) all adult.

If the moderators (and a fine job they do too) keep having problems with certain posters then just ban them - easy.

A lot of peoples time gets taken up with keeping this place running smoothly so why let a small number spoil it for others.

rgds

James.


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## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

Remember that this is a *car* forum. The site tries to encourage new members to visit and stay... they initially visit here because they are looking for Audi TT specific details (proven by the number of new visitors the site gets from a search engine). I know that many don't stay. There are also legal and moral obligations that this site has.
For example, if the content of this site degraded to a free-for-all, how long would it be before Surfcontrol or any of the other content management systems catagorised this URL so that many of us who visit this forum from work would no longer be allowed access (and please don't start about if you're at work you shouldn't be on this forum :roll: ) once that happens, the number of visitors to this site (80% of hits on this site are during working hours) would decrease. Decrease in visitors and hits = reduction in revenue generated by the advertising... resulting in the possibility that the site would be closed down.
Jae's not going to pay for this site to be operated so that a handful of individuals can post whatever they want.

The unfortunate side effect of the popularity of this site has resulted in there being a very strong community... this is unfortunate because this does put off many new members to the forum... others see the at times on-the-limit "language" used between 2 familiar members as an indication that that type of language can be used by anyone to anyone.

This site should cater for what we were all here initially for... the Audi TT. the off-topic areas and the social aspect are to an extent secondary... or at least it should be IMHO.

Maybe someone would like to start up a new forum so that it's a free-for-all.. no moderation, any subject you like... anything. ?? Believe me, you'll soon realise what a thankless task it is, how much grief you get and how you as the owner have a legal, if not a moral, responsibility.


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## Sim (Mar 7, 2003)

I agree :!:


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## jdn (Aug 26, 2002)

I agree 100% with KevST reasoned and well explained post.

I would be interested in Vlastan's comments on this post, as for me it hits the nail on the head.

Off Topic does not mean 'free for all' in my book.


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## Rogue (Jun 15, 2003)

In my experience of internet forums (especially specialist ones like this) there is ultimately a saturation point whereby you've got all the information you need about problems/purchases etc. for your car, so then what do you do?

Do you just stop posting or stop reading threads about which tyres/exhausts/re-map etc. are the best?

What tends to keep people coming back is the sense of community and camaraderie that is evolved through interaction with the other users.

The fact that someone else has the same car as you doesn't mean that you automatically should get along.
It's more things like finding out about their favourite football team, interests, hobbies that lets you build up a rapport with someone.

I totally agree that this is, in the main, a car forum.
However, if you try to only keep the talk to the topic in question (TT or other marques) then I think you'll find a lot less people posting.

Rogue


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

KevinST said:


> 2 familiar members as an indication that that type of language can be used by anyone to anyone.
> 
> quote]
> 
> ...


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

jdn said:


> I agree 100% with KevST reasoned and well explained post.
> 
> I would be interested in Vlastan's comments on this post, as for me it hits the nail on the head.
> 
> Off Topic does not mean 'free for all' in my book.


Nutts raised this as Poll, asking forum member to vote if they would like such a room (he called it blue room). Members voted against this. So as the majority do not want such a room, there is not going to be one.


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## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

^Abi^ said:


> KevinST said:
> 
> 
> > 2 familiar members as an indication that that type of language can be used by anyone to anyone.
> ...


oh dear. I was using a generalisation, I was not referring to (or had in mind) any specific members... this happens very regularly between many users of this forum. However if you feel that you're guilty... :?

@Rogue: while I understand your argument, I don't think that anything in this life... and including anything to do with the TT, is static enough so that no new information comes to light. If that was the case then this forum would not have any new information in it regarding the TT for the last couple of years. Instead, new members join and yes, they do ask questions that have previously been answered but often there is a different or better solution to what was offered previously. Inovators such as Wak, was, ChipiTT etc etc continue to add value.

If the forum became stagnent and new members didn't stay because the majority of posts were non-TT... believe me, this forum would very soon end up with 10 regular posters talking amongst themselves, and unless you're willing to pay Jae to keep the site running.... it will go.


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## SteveS (Oct 20, 2003)

^Abi^ said:


> Can you please emphasize in more details exactly who the 2 members your referring to are?


The way I read it Abi it's any 2 posters who know each other. I.E. not specific.


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

My pointless addition to this thread.



vlastan said:


> I can assure you that from now on if I catch anyone posting with sexual innuendo of any kind, I will personally report him to all the moderators and request that the post is deleted.


Surely you should have said "if I catch anyone posting with sexual innuendo of any kind, I will ask a moderator to whip it out immediately" :wink:


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

Not guilty of anything other than I drive a Sport Ka and that I can be a little cheeky on here at times :-* :wink:


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

scavenger said:


> ask a moderator to whip it out immediately :wink:


Yes please! :wink:


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## Rogue (Jun 15, 2003)

@Kevin

Fair comment, mate.
I think we both have some valid points.
I guess it's all about striking a balance which keeps everyone happy (which is probably an impossible thing to do given that we are all different  )

Anyways, best be off now.
Have to go to Perth to pick up my car, which now has new window motors and a new Climate Control switch 8)

Rogue


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

^abi^ said:


> Woooohooooooo great when you guys bitch. Can I supply the mud please


 :roll:

I try not to 'bitch' as you put it, I prefer a rational debate . How about supplying something constructive, instead of another one of your throw away one liners? If you have something to say, at least try and make it mildly interesting, and with a point. I find it rather annoying to see one thread after another being derailed by pointless chitter chatter between two individuals.

stephengreen may just be posting to stir up trouble, but I felt that there was a serious point to be made. I've learnt to bite my lip and keep quiet when issues like this arise on here, but I'm afraid I couldn't keep quiet this time when I saw his post that appears to stand up for Vlastans 'right' to post random sexual innuendo and drag everything off topic. Besides, I like a good debate


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

PaulS said:


> I try not to 'bitch' as you put it, I prefer a rational debate . How about supplying something constructive, instead of another one of your throw away one liners? If you have something to say, at least try and make it mildly interesting, and with a point. I find it rather annoying to see one thread after another being derailed by pointless chitter chatter between two individuals.
> 
> stephengreen may just be posting to stir up trouble, but I felt that there was a serious point to be made. I've learnt to bite my lip and keep quiet when issues like this arise on here, but I'm afraid I couldn't keep quiet this time when I saw his post that appears to stand up for Vlastans 'right' to post random sexual innuendo and drag everything off topic. Besides, I like a good debate


Oh for god sake ease up! If god made us all as bloody lame as you, the world would sincerely be such a dull dull place that is for a dead cert!

Go out and get a life you twit and start smiling!


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

^Abi^ said:


> Oh for god sake ease up! If god made us all as bloody lame as you, the world would sincerely be such a dull dull place that is for a dead cert!
> 
> Go out and get a life you twit and start smiling!





> Besides, I like a good debate  <----- :wink:


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

I'm sure you do like a good debate, but you ain't half as good at it as me becaue I am female and females can be nasty :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: ! :-* .

And for your information also :-* , I do post some constructive postings in the UK TT Forum section which can be of help or advice


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

^Abi^ said:


> I'm sure you do like a good debate, but you ain't half as good at it as me becaue I am female and females can be nasty :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: ! :-* .
> 
> And for your information also :-* , I do post some constructive postings in the UK TT Forum section which can be of help or advice


That's true, you do. Next time I'm in a tanning shop and somebody jumps out infront of me, stark naked, I'll know exactly what to do :wink:


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

BTW - what's all this cloak and dagger stuff about saying who the two main posters on here are, that keep dragging subjects off topic? I'll tell you who they are - Abi & Vlastan :roll:

I suggest an Abi & Vlastan room (with maybe Bash the Monkey in there too) for random sexual innuendo and pointless chatter


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

PaulS said:


> BTW - what's all this cloak and dagger stuff about saying who the two main posters on here are, that keep dragging subjects off topic? I'll tell you who they are - Abi & Vlastan :roll:
> 
> I suggest an Abi & Vlastan room (with maybe Bash the Monkey in there too) for random sexual innuendo and pointless chatter


I guess you would like it too...from time to time!! :wink:


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## stephengreen (May 6, 2002)

>>I try not to 'bitch' as you put it, I prefer a rational debate .

stephengreen may just be posting to stir up trouble, but I felt that there was a serious point to be made. I've learnt to bite my lip and keep quiet when issues like this arise on here, but I'm afraid I couldn't keep quiet this time when I saw his post that appears to stand up for Vlastans 'right' to post random sexual innuendo and drag everything off topic. Besides, I like a good debate <<

mm...why is it that some people belive that raising a serious point is stirring up trouble?
if you read my posts carefully you will note that i wasnt standing up for vlastans right to post sex topics,just the opposite in fact ,which in an earlier post we agreed.i was standing up for his right not to be singled out when others break the rules.
and this inconsistancy isnt just on sex topics but on other taboos as well such as personal attacks .it seemed to me that moderaters had become a little selective or lax in their task.
topics of a sexual nature are banned.
if this rule is a problem than perhaps it should be reworded to peoples satifaction
in the mean time it should either be enforced on every thread or repealed 
intelligence has nothing to do with deciding whether it remains as a post.
tolerance is a word that is more apt .a nun reading the posts might be highly intelligent but have a low tolarance to posts of a sexual nature.


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## stephengreen (May 6, 2002)

KevinST said:


> If the forum became stagnent and new members didn't stay because the majority of posts were non-TT... believe me, this forum would very soon end up with 10 regular posters talking amongst themselves, and unless you're willing to pay Jae to keep the site running.... it will go.


if the majority of people wanting to make a post was non TT related and there wasnt a section for it they wouldnt post at all and it would in your words "go" anyhow.surely what matters to advertisers is numbers.if a different room keeps a target audience in place to view their ads then isnt an off topic room is just as important to them as the main forum for getting their message across?
you will always get new owners on the main forum but i would suggest that the only way to keep them after the initial questions have been answered is to provided an alternative room for them to participate in as well.


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## SteveS (Oct 20, 2003)

Hey Stevie,

Do you own, or have you ever owned a TT? Are you capable of posting anything other than detrimental comments about other peoples posts? Do you feel that within yourself you are adding to the greater sum of human understanding by what you post on here? Does it give you a big thrill to belittle what other folks say or have opinions about?

eh?

By the way mods, if we are going to be pedantic none of the above was a personal attack, questions is all, just questions.

And yes, I've had enough of this persons posts. Which still isn't a personal attack.

I like to come here and contribute where I can, possibly answer a question or two, and hopefully occasionally raise a laugh once in a while whilst I'm at it. I love to see others do the same, however sometimes I wonder about some peoples reasons for posting.

Whatever.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

oooo - "Whatever" now there is a Jerry Springer conclusion if I ever saw one.


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Oh and a comment on moderation rules....

of course...

Do everything in moderation 8)


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Oh....... "Final Thought"

PS - I can't wait for the next TT Photo Comp......I might just........... ach never mind


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

........just looking in!


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## SteveS (Oct 20, 2003)

saint said:


> oooo - "Whatever" now there is a Jerry Springer conclusion if I ever saw one.


Never watch it. Lowest common denominator crap. If you feel that what I have written belongs there, I fear you have missed my point. My mistake for not being eloquent enough.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

SteveS said:


> Hey Stevie,
> 
> Do you own, or have you ever owned a TT? Are you capable of posting anything other than detrimental comments about other peoples posts? Do you feel that within yourself you are adding to the greater sum of human understanding by what you post on here? Does it give you a big thrill to belittle what other folks say or have opinions about?
> 
> ...


STEVIE? LOL...sweet talking now!! 

Steve has been in this forum even before I came to it!! He is one of the old chaps!

Also why is it important if he has a TT? A lot of people don't have one and are still around.

I also come hear to contribute with anal sex tips...but people don't appreciate this!  I would love to see others do the same too...but they don't! BASTARDS!!  :lol:


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

No - I just take "whatever" as a lazy, can't be arsed retort to an arguement - an all too typical answer nowadays on both sides of the Pond.

No disrespect to the point that you were making Steve in anyway..... I never watch JS either however you can't fail to miss clips/trailers for it where "whatever" is blurted out constantly cos the hillbilly is too dumb to form an answer.

So just talk to hand [smiley=stop.gif]


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

vlastan said:


> I also come hear to contribute with anal sex tips...but people don't appreciate this!


Oh I love a science lesson! :lol:  :wink:

Put your theory into practice and show us Vlast starting with the aim, method, result and conclusion please :lol:  :wink:


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## SteveS (Oct 20, 2003)

vlastan said:


> STEVIE? LOL...sweet talking now!!


Naturally, I don't have a bad bone in my body.



vlastan said:


> Steve has been in this forum even before I came to it!! He is one of the old chaps!


And?


vlastan said:


> Also why is it important if he has a TT? A lot of people don't have one and are still around.


The question (and it was just a question, nothing more) was whether he had ever owned one, the unwritten implication being that just possibly he likes to annoy on forums as a hobby, I concede your point that actually it's not that important as an ongoing "possession" however it does beg the question that if he has never owned one, what are his motives for posting here at all? Even if he did/does I would still like to understand the motive(s) for his negative attitude.



vlastan said:


> I also come hear to contribute with anal sex tips...but people don't appreciate this!  I would love to see others do the same too...but they don't! BASTARDS!!  :lol:


Well, personally speaking I could live without knowing your sexual preferences, however if you feel the need to express them and do so in an amusing manner I can take it or leave it as it comes.


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

blimey!

given that amount of grief aimed at the mods recently, I thought THIS thread might stay on topic.....

LOL


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

> I would still like to understand the motive(s) for his negative attitude.


Not negative, but constructive!! His attitude may appear negative, because you don't agree with his views. :wink:


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

God I so wish I was a moderator  :wink: . My oh my, what fun I would have banging all your heads together  :wink:


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## SteveS (Oct 20, 2003)

saint said:


> No - I just take "whatever" as a lazy, can't be arsed retort to an arguement - an all too typical answer nowadays on both sides of the Pond.


Agreed without reservation. The word was used advisedly. At the end of the day my patience with posting or not posting on a forum (in reply to something I feel is objectionable, rather than having a laugh or gaining or imparting knowledge which are my preferred options) is directly proportional to the amount of effort required for the possible benefit in any given circumstance. Call it a cost benefit analysis if you like, the cost of elucidating further in this case was probably too high for any anticipated benefit.


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## SteveS (Oct 20, 2003)

vlastan said:


> > I would still like to understand the motive(s) for his negative attitude.
> 
> 
> Not negative, but constructive!! His attitude may appear negative, because you don't agree with his views. :wink:


Rubbish. You simply choose to see it that way because he questioned your being banned as part of one of his pedantic statements and you feel some kind of kindred spirit is in order.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Don't I Recognise You? said:


> blimey!
> 
> given that amount of grief aimed at the mods recently, I thought THIS thread might stay on topic.....
> 
> LOL


We will be happy only when we have your heads on a plate!  :lol:


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

stephengreen said:


> if you read my posts carefully you will note that i wasnt standing up for vlastans right to post sex topics,just the opposite in fact ,which in an earlier post we agreed.i was standing up for his right not to be singled out when others break the rules.


OK. But IMHO, he is not unfairly singled out. He gets moderated for good reason - because he crosses that boundary that I mention too often.

(Vlastan - don't take that as a compliment :wink: )


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## SteveS (Oct 20, 2003)

PaulS said:


> (Vlastan - don't take that as a compliment :wink: )


Muhahahaha :lol:


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Ohhh Paulieeeeee!!  :-*


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## TJS (May 6, 2002)

I think the clue as to expected conduct is on the start page of the site, "The club has a great web site , which is the sixth most popular Audi site worldwide"

A a member of the TTOC (existing, and as formerly run by Russell) I am not expecting people to debase this criteria by references to sexual issues which compromise the standards of an AUDI TT web site. It isn't clever and smacks of attention seeking ... I am sure there are bespoke web sites for fans of anal sex.

Personally I think the moderaters (a thankless task) have been extremely tolerant over the last 4 years.

TJS


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

Am I bit late to become a pom pom girlie to cheer some of you all on  :lol: :wink: .


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

depends who you are cheering on Abi....

If it's appreciation for the moderators, feel free to go right ahead 

Without any sexual conitations there of course. I'm sure that if any of the male members of this forum wanted to pick up some pom poms and start shouting 'Go Mods, Go Mods, Go, Mods, yyyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!' aswell, it would be just as appreciated 

[smiley=mexicanwave.gif]


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

I know your sort D.I.R.Y...you just want me to wear one of those little short skirts that go with the pom poms .

Think I will cheer D.I.R.Y. as he is a nice fair moderator .

Go DirTTy go [smiley=sunny.gif] [smiley=mexicanwave.gif] [smiley=sunny.gif]


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

Thank you Abi


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## mittya (Nov 24, 2003)

I enjoy this forum(all of it) a great deal. I may be a newbie and I may not post a lot - but I do like to watch... :wink: and I have been doing just that since I bought my 180 last November.

I think this forum is more than a bit "over moderated".

If you need an example of a forum that has virtually no moderation, is very popular and has some rather fruity language I suggest you take a surf through Bikemagic.com's SoapBox.
Just been in there and there are ten advertisements on the forum menu so I think talk of scaring off advertisers and legal problems is a little OTT.

Just my two penneth 

I expect to be shot down in flames! [smiley=toilet.gif]


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

Mittya...step into my office .....  :wink:


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Rogue said:


> What tends to keep people coming back is the sense of community and camaraderie that is evolved through interaction with the other users.





Rogue said:


> I totally agree that this is, in the main, a car forum.
> However, if you try to only keep the talk to the topic in question (TT or other marques) then I think you'll find a lot less people posting


I agree. I no longer have a TT, but I still come here, and enjoy it a lot. The people here, and subjects on off topic, other marques, and the flame room, seem far better than those on other car forums.



TJS said:


> Personally I think the moderaters (a thankless task) have been extremely tolerant over the last 4 years.


They have. May be too tolerant. I think in the future, anything posted that is suspect should be removed straight away. By suspect, I hope most people understand what I am trying to say? I am not talking about removing anything with a sexual reference. That would be ridiculous, it would spoil the fun, and is not appropriate in todays society. I'm talking about things that are degrading to women (or men) or things that appear 'pervy'. (Not that there is anything wrong with being 'pervy', it's just a case of 'in the right place, at the right time')



mittya said:


> I think this forum is more than a bit "over moderated".
> 
> If you need an example of a forum that has virtually no moderation, is very popular and has some rather fruity language I suggest you take a surf through Bikemagic.com's SoapBox.
> Just been in there and there are ten advertisements on the forum menu so I think talk of scaring off advertisers and legal problems is a little OTT.


I disagree. I get the impression that there is very little moderation going on here. Just about everyone behaves themselves, when the language does get fruity, it's usually seems appropriate for the situation. People don't seem to swear, just for the sake of it.

If the forum was to go in the direction of Bikemagic or similar, I wouldn't be here.


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## davethefish (May 5, 2004)

I have been a visitor on this forum on and off for the last two and a half years. Having just purchased a TT I thought its about time I joined up. I've always found this site to be extremely informative - and armed me well when looking for potential TT's.

The fact it is run by individuals and not a company shows what can be achieved by co-operation of individuals. The keyword being "co-operation". We are all adults here - the moderators only kick in when things go completely leftfield. Self moderation is not diificult - before one types a post, think, "would I actually say this out loud on a packed train"? Would it cause offence? If the answer is yes the same rule should apply on the forum. We have a flame room to let off steam and throw our toys out of the pram.

One thing I do find annoying is topics being thrown off rail. As I said, I have been on and off this forum for 2.5 years so please don't think I'm outsider "butting" in - and this is NOT a personal attack, but poster's such as Abi often rail road a topic way off course. I can totally appreciate the friendly way in which this is done, I'm not being a boring old prune (I'm 27  ) but the fact that someone's signature states their position in the postings ranking show's that some restraint is needed both in content and "quality" of posts. DO we win something if we go higher in the posting table?


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

davethefish said:


> We are all adults here - the moderators only kick in when things go completely leftfield. Self moderation is not diificult - before one types a post, think, "would I actually say this out loud on a packed train"? Would it cause offence?


I agree with this. Whatever I have said here, I would mind discussing it in the train or the pub or whatever. Why should I have to restrain myself? :wink:

Why should my discussion in the train cause offence to others? I am discussing this with my friends not with them and it is my right to discuss anything I want.



> If the forum was to go in the direction of Bikemagic or similar, I wouldn't be here.


Do you believe that you actually belong here? Why? This is the TT forum and you have no TT. Also there is a Porsche forum so why don't you go to them? So why are you here then? To tell me off when I post something of adult nature? Because you enjoy being a winger and complain?

This is not directed just to you but to all the other ex-TT owners as well. Do you just stick around here just to have something to complain about?


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## davethefish (May 5, 2004)

vlastan said:


> davethefish said:
> 
> 
> > We are all adults here - the moderators only kick in when things go completely leftfield. Self moderation is not diificult - before one types a post, think, "would I actually say this out loud on a packed train"? Would it cause offence?
> ...


Of course you've got the right to post your thoughts - but by the same token other have the right to disagree with some comments - it's simply what others deem to be pushing the boundaries of decency. I'm an open minded chap and it takes a lot to make me blush/cringe, but I think if you're truely honest with yourself, you must know some of the posts will offend? You've said it yourself - "I no longer post stuff about....." Why is this? Is it because you were banned and fear the same thing or is it because you realise that given the environment its not really appropriate?


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## stephengreen (May 6, 2002)

SteveS said:


> Hey Stevie,
> 
> Do you own, or have you ever owned a TT? Are you capable of posting anything other than detrimental comments about other peoples posts? Do you feel that within yourself you are adding to the greater sum of human understanding by what you post on here? Does it give you a big thrill to belittle what other folks say or have opinions about?
> 
> ...


well ive heard of your opinions dont count because you havnt been a member long enough,because your argumentative,because i dont agree,because your post wasnt spelling perfect,and now for the first time because of the car you drive (or dont)
is this really the best contribution possible, to a post that answers the second (and third) question in your emotive post?
if you dont care to read a persons posts is it really that difficult not to?
is it really that difficult to put your view forward on a post rather than what you feel personally towards the author?
if the only reason is the latter, it rather dilutes any criticism you have on the subject of the post.
dont you feel you have nothing of value to add to a debate when you resort to such an irrational response? i havnt TTBOMK had any posts removed for making personal attacks on fellow forum members,have you?
perhaps some time spent looking in the mirror and reflecting if breaking forum rules and or posting emotional comments about individuals rather than contribute to the topic is really the contribution you wish to make to this forum
finally in answer to your first question i ordered a TT in dec 01 (joining the original forum shortly afterwards) my misano red 225c (facelift model)grey leather bose 6 cd arrived march 1st 02 doubt if this will make any differance either to your opinion of me or to the validity of my posts but at least its cast a ray of light onto the shadow of ignorance for some.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

If someone in the train comes and tell me that what I am discussing with my friend is not appropriate, I will tell him that he/she shouldn't be listening to it in the first place. Same applies here...you don't like it, you don't read it.

I don't like the Jokes section I don't read it.

I am not discussing about AS any longer because there is no need to provide any more free lectures in this subject...I passed on to you my knowledge and I expect that by now, you all have enhanced your sexual lives, thanks to me. :wink:


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

vlastan said:


> If someone in the train comes and tell me that what I am discussing with my friend is not appropriate, I will tell him that he/she shouldn't be listening to it in the first place. Same applies here...you don't like it, you don't read it.


What a considerate, community spirited attitude.


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## sonicmonkey (Mar 20, 2004)

I've tried steering clear of posting in this thread as emotions seem to be running high, this is just an observation - does how long we have been on the forum/owned a TT really give weight to one persons opinions taking precedence over anothers?

I really believe not.


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## scott28tt (Jul 30, 2002)

vlastan said:


> Do you believe that you actually belong here? Why? This is the TT forum and you have no TT. Also there is a Porsche forum so why don't you go to them? So why are you here then? To tell me off when I post something of adult nature? Because you enjoy being a winger and complain?
> 
> This is not directed just to you but to all the other ex-TT owners as well. Do you just stick around here just to have something to complain about?


Oh V, I haven't had a TT since January, but I still spend nearly as much time here as I did before. My use of the various boards has changed, but I enjoy being here (most of the time :wink: )

I contribute where I feel I can and it's worth me getting involved in a topic/subject.

I can register on any forum on the internet that I fancy, but I'm only registered on 3 forums - all of which are related to interests of mine - the TT was and still is one of them, so to answer your question, yes I do belong here.

Has this whole thread gone far enough yet?


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

davethefish said:


> One thing I do find annoying is topics being thrown off rail. As I said, I have been on and off this forum for 2.5 years so please don't think I'm outsider "butting" in - and this is NOT a personal attack, but poster's such as Abi often rail road a topic way off course. I can totally appreciate the friendly way in which this is done, I'm not being a boring old prune (I'm 27  ) but the fact that someone's signature states their position in the postings ranking show's that some restraint is needed both in content and "quality" of posts. DO we win something if we go higher in the posting table?


Blinding! :lol:

OK folks! Without me this forum would be a male dominated boring old mans car talk forum!

Is that REALLY what you all want? With no giggles, no banter and just car chitter chatter in every direction and every thread, post, topic?

I maybe all sorts of things. Each and everyone of you may have your thoughts and opinions about me. I don't condone that. But, at the end of the day I am human, normal and as it happens, like the rest of you DO take an avid interest in Audi TTs, probably more so than any of you actually. Have done for the past 5 years and am continuing strongly more than ever. Doesn't necessarily mean I am here to piss the majority of you off intentionally because I am not. But it is getting to the point where I am now because some of you really do 'raise to the bait' like little children who have tantrums and can't actually see some enlightment. I have a sense of humour, sorry some of you decide to not share it. My humour 'can' be quite dry and witty in some areas. Sorry for those miserable ones who don't want to share this also.

So let me tell you this OK, you may all sit behind your screens knocking me for my posts, I would actually like you to all have the balls to confront me face to face with your thoughts if we ever all meet at a meet! Then you will all really see me for who I am and may actually like me, like quite a lot do on here, who have already met me in the flesh.

So before most of you generate an idea and persona of who I am, think before you start throwing your weight around and knocking my posts please in writing and not in real. I doubt each and every one of you really would have the balls to tell me what you really think of me face to face! Too easy when your on here, behind a screen to type about someone isn't it?

I am getting rather hacked off with all your pathetic comments about my 'going off topic' postings or 'what ever' I post.

If some of you were proper men, and possibly mature enough to actually see light, then you would ignore me, rather than wasting your own time, and burning out your little fingers typing about me!

At the end of the day, it doesn't bother me what so ever what many of you think. What many of you think is totally wrong anyhow. What do I care. But as I see this forum with many people, it really is showing that 'some' TT drivers can be a little 'up themselves' because they think they are. So what you drive a 30k car? Big deal! My husband drives an a brand new company Aston my best friend's hubby drives an Lambourghani! Do I look down on 'some' of you I detest? NO! Do I laugh at 'some' of you lot because you all think you have arrived with your cars? NO!

So please don't take the piss out me with your pathetic comments because you think I come from a 'low life' back ground because I post the utter crap. I just have a humour and a life!

Thank you!


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

You can be in any forum you like. But I am asking what information can you add regarding the TT if you don't have one or care about this car now, as you don't have it.

If you are an easy going character, like yourself, it is fine of course. But if you come here to complain and complain non stop about what other people say or do, then why be in this community that upsets you?

Everyone keeps saying that this is a car forum about TTs. But so many people stick around even without a TT. And it is not the TT brand that keeps them here of course. They come to have a good time in the other rooms.

But if every time you come you complain, then why stick around?


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

I wasn't replying to your posting Abi. See my post was posted 6 secs after yours...I can't type that fast! :wink:


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

And now we have decended into a slagging match.....:?
(and no - I'm not pointing fingers, just stating facts relating to the previous 2 or 3 pages of posts :?)

Thank you all for posting up your constructive points on the levels of moderation in here.

Many thanks also to everyone who managed NOT to name or infer names.

Respect to those people who have kept it together and answered personal crititism in a largely rational and calm manner.

If we could possibly manage to get back on track, rather than continuing to post personal attacks, I'll leave this post un-locked.

But I would remind everyone (again), that personal attacks have no place (anywhere) on this forum.

Thank You


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

Thank you DIRY!


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

vlastan said:


> They come to have a good time in the other rooms.


Do you know what Nick, you've hit the nail on the head.

If we (and that's all of us) could just avoid dragging threads *in the main TT forums* off topic, I think the majority would be happier - and this in no way would stop people having a good time elsewhere. I'm not suggesting that there should never be a humourous or at-a-tangent posting in a thread, but I do think that what amounts to the hijacking of threads in the TT related forums (and there are lots of people who do this) and taking them completely off track should stop. Anyone disagree with that in principle?



Abi said:


> OK folks! Without me this forum would be a male dominated boring old mans car talk forum!
> 
> Is that REALLY what you all want? With no giggles, no banter and just car chitter chatter in every direction and every thread, post, topic?


Abi, I thought your post was very reasonable  To answer your question though, and reinforce my view from above, actually, pretty much, yes, that is what I want. Not for every thread though, just those in the "serious" areas, not in "General Discussions - Non TT Related". And of course, as I say above, you're correct, if there was never a humourous post in the main TT forums, it would get a little boring, but that doesn't make it right that well intentioned threads from members who really have a problem or a question or some information should be made unreadable by lots of totally off topic postings in them. The great thing though is that the whole "Non TT Related" area was created specifically to avoid this, so there shouldn't be a problem - there is plenty of space for both types of postings and all types of personalities on this forum.

And just to be clear, these are just my thoughts as a 3-year member of the forum, not as a moderator.

Cheers, Clive


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

> My husband drives an a brand new company Aston


Very nice - What does he do at Ford ??


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

Clive - good answer [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

(also my point of view as a forum member, not a mod)


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

clived said:


> If we (and that's all of us) could just avoid dragging threads *in the main TT forums* off topic, I think the majority would be happier


Well I wouldn't be happy for threads in the Other Marques forum to be dragged off topic, and neither I'm sure would the majority of ex TT owners who frequent this forum (I very rarely visit the TT forums themselves nowadays).


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

coupe-sport said:


> > My husband drives an a brand new company Aston
> 
> 
> Very nice - What does he do at Ford ??


Hahhah..now that would be telling :wink:  

Clive :- Thank you for your valued comment and your support and also appreciation what ALL you moderators do to keep this place going. 

It is a fun place, it is a very nice place to 'hang out' also even though it does get out of hand in some areas :wink: . But, what everybody must remember is that WE all say things in the heat of the moment when we are reading things on here especially where banter is involved. We don't necessarily agree with things people put, but it doesn't give anybody the right either to actually judge anyone because of what they type. Some are exhibitionists too  :wink:, but that makes the person they are and if done with out being too naughty can make it a good giggle sometimes [smiley=sweetheart.gif].

I don't hate anybody on this forum. To me, life is for living and is by way too short to keep stirring up problems and hatred which contribute to other lifes crises in this day and age where people do have serious life threatening problems. It really is not wroth it! That really is also 'child' play!

I like you all deep down. Your all a good crowd so remain nice and at least TRY to be friendly . You never know, most people do cross many peoples paths in life.

:-* :-* :-* :-*


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

> Hahhah..now that would be telling


I thought you said a while back he was an Engineer at Ford - just thought i may be in the wrong job as an Aston as a company car would be rather nice.


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## davethefish (May 5, 2004)

^Abi^ said:


> So before most of you generate an idea and persona of who I am, think before you start throwing your weight around and knocking my posts please in writing and not in real. I doubt each and every one of you really would have the balls to tell me what you really think of me face to face! Too easy when your on here, behind a screen to type about someone isn't it?
> 
> I am getting rather hacked off with all your pathetic comments about my 'going off topic' postings or 'what ever' I post.
> 
> ...


I didn't mean to offend you - and if my original post did I apologies. But now the gloves are off I'd like to ask where you thought I implied you were a "low life"???

You know what they say about (humour) comedy? It's all about *timing *- that doesn't mean EVERY time a thread is posted. Reread your entries in to what I would consider was a serious topic thread - "What did Ron Atkinson Say..." Do you think they were appropriate? Was that sort of "humour" really necessary? When somebody else spoke up about it you did exactly the same thing - went mega-defensive and called us all pathetic and we should get a life. Without laughs, yes life would be boring - but life ISN'T ALL about laughs. There are times when you do have to be serious. Using the "get a life - it was meant to be funny" card should be used sparingly and not everytime somebody writes they didn't like your posting? A mature reasoning? I think so.

Somebody else pointed out earlier that how long you've been a member/owner doesn't give you any more weight in argument. I totally agree - Abi the fact that there are a lot of people here who do drive TT 's I've yet to come across a comment which really states (and means) "I drive a TT so therefore my social/moral/class/attitude/intellect is far superior then yours. I'm sticking my neck out and speaking for all those who do drive TT's - we'd don't think we are better then anyone else because we drive a TT. Its a collection of metal and plastic bits. Its a mode of transport. A lovely one at that but that's it. It doesn't make anyone better then any other person - if some people do then they are seriously lacking something.

I don't want this to be locked by the Mod. I want to say sorry if I caused you upset, it wasn't my attention. I was mearly making a comment, a comment I still stand by.


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

....


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## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

I wonder why it would be OK to drag a thread in off-topic... off-topic?? Surely the original poster is entitled to getting a response and a civilised conversation about whatever the original post was about?


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

^Abi^ said:


> davethefish said:
> 
> 
> > One thing I do find annoying is topics being thrown off rail. As I said, I have been on and off this forum for 2.5 years so please don't think I'm outsider "butting" in - and this is NOT a personal attack, but poster's such as Abi often rail road a topic way off course. I can totally appreciate the friendly way in which this is done, I'm not being a boring old prune (I'm 27  ) but the fact that someone's signature states their position in the postings ranking show's that some restraint is needed both in content and "quality" of posts. DO we win something if we go higher in the posting table?
> ...


Abi,

Don't give us all the "I love TTs and always have" speech. From someone who slagged the car (and its owners) off not so long ago, your too-chirpy attitude is just grating, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't "look down on you", and I'm pleased for you that hubby drives an Aston - I simply wince when I read some of the [email protected] you post. I'm sure you are a lovely girl in real life. I just wish you wouldn't pretend to be so thick when you post on here. Its a very annoying persona you seem to have taken on.

*****

As for the rest of the debate - well I'm in favour of extremely minimal moderation. Censorship when AND ONLY when it is in the overall interests of the forum itself. EG to prevent the forum from becoming involved in legal matters (libel, defamation etc). This forum ran itself (pretty much) for long enough, with few problems. Unfortunately, the more moderators it has, the more problems it seems to have...

I have a pretty wide vocabularly. The words *I* choose to type, and the opinions *I* choose to put accross are (apart from the odd typo) the ones I intend to be read. I'm perfectly capable of making a rational choice for myself on the forum, just as I am in real life. Noone is "employed" to doctor my language or my meaning during normal conversations, so I don't need someone to do that job for me on the forum either. Thank you, anyway...

As for personal attacks. C'mon guys, this is a community. It is made up of a REALLY diverse range of people. It is a fact of life that not everyone is going to get along with everyone else. A small amount of bitterness, envy, rivalry, dislike, distrust is inevitable, and trying to kid ourselves that just because we all love TTs, we should all be friends, is just silly. There is nothing wrong with the odd personal comment, the odd slanging match etc. Better to vent the steam once in a while than build resentment. I'm against long running feuds - sure - a forum isn't the place for that. Let them take it to email. But some of the funniest and best-read threads on this place have been the arguments / debates / slanging matches. I'm not suggesting we base the forum around them - but just let them happen and fizzle out again. Its harmless....

I don't have a TT anymore. Some people would suggest I don't belong here anymore - but I feel MUCH more at home here than on the 350z forum, so I'm staying. But if this place becomes too much of a nanny-state, and opinions can no longer be expressed without fear of over-moderation and censorship, then it'll no longer be such an interesting and enjoyable forum.

â€¢ noun (pl. forums) 1 a meeting or medium for an exchange of views. 2 chiefly N. Amer. a court or tribunal. 3 (pl. fora) (in ancient Roman cities) a public square or marketplace used for judicial and other business.


----------



## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

jampott said:


> Abi,
> 
> Don't give us all the "I love TTs and always have" speech. From someone who slagged the car (and its owners) off not so long ago, your too-chirpy attitude is just grating, as far as I'm concerned.


Do you seriously think if I didn't have a 'love affair' with the TT I would be on this forum? What the f**k do you know Jampott? :x . F**K all as per usual and getting your two pennith because my name is in the thread! Opportunist!


----------



## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

KevinST said:


> I wonder why it would be OK to drag a thread in off-topic... off-topic?? Surely the original poster is entitled to getting a response and a civilised conversation about whatever the original post was about?


The original poster is entitled to read whatever anyone chooses to put. It is a public forum. If you ask the right question, in the right way, you get an answer. Often the additional "off-topic" information is just as interesting / useful / funny as the "correct" responses...

If noone bothers to answer your questions, perhaps they either noone knows the answer, or (just as likely) noone can be bothered to GIVE you an answer.


----------



## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

^Abi^ said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > Abi,
> ...


There are many people on here that don't have a love affair with the TT. Being part of the community, and having a love affair with the car are simply two different things.

What the f**k do I know? I know that you (of all people) chose to look down on everyone here. Would you REALLY like me to waste my time searching for your quotes (yet again)? You told some downright porkies then, because it suited your "TTs are so 'last year'" argument at the time. Then, when you got all excited about getting your own TT, you conveniently forgot that you'd come out with such sh*t, and laughed it all off as a joke. As you've told such base untruths in the past, you'll have to forgive me for taking what you say these days with a pinch of salt...

You polarize opinion, Abi. Even you must realise that. I just happen to be one of those who think the personality you have adopted on here is dire, laughable, and downright annoying. But as you aren't like that in real life, one has to ask the question "why behave like it on here?"


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

> As for personal attacks. C'mon guys, this is a community. It is made up of a REALLY diverse range of people. It is a fact of life that not everyone is going to get along with everyone else. A small amount of bitterness, envy, rivalry, dislike, distrust is inevitable, and trying to kid ourselves that just because we all love TTs, we should all be friends, is just silly. There is nothing wrong with the odd personal comment, the odd slanging match etc. Better to vent the steam once in a while than build resentment. I'm against long running feuds - sure - a forum isn't the place for that. Let them take it to email. But some of the funniest and best-read threads on this place have been the arguments / debates / slanging matches. I'm not suggesting we base the forum around them - but just let them happen and fizzle out again. Its harmless....


Do you NOT realise though that some people may take offence and MAY be hurt or troubled by some peoples personal attacks where they have worded words so nastly it can upset?

Or are you so thick skinned and don't care about this 'community'?


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

God day off work have we Jampott? Bit bored are we? Want to stir up crap like your always doing by kicking off?

Grow up!


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## jdn (Aug 26, 2002)

KevinST said:


> I wonder why it would be OK to drag a thread in off-topic... off-topic?? Surely the original poster is entitled to getting a response and a civilised conversation about whatever the original post was about?





jampott said:


> You polarize opinion, Abi. Even you must realise that. I just happen to be one of those who think the personality you have adopted on here is dire, laughable, and downright annoying. But as you aren't like that in real life, one has to ask the question "why behave like it on here?"


Relating back to my previous post, it was your last question I was trying to get an answer to in my previous poll thread. It was this thread that was dragged off topic by innapropriate postings relating to sex dolls. It did annoy me as I thought it was a sensible Off topic thread that might provoke some interesting debate as to why people choose an online persona that is different to the real life.

However, as the thread quickly descended into purile nonsense replies dried up. As you say, perhaps no-one cared enough to give an answer - that is fine - I do wonder however if most people were 'put off' the thread by such postings. :?


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

All I can do is :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is even funnier than the TT Pic compo.

Why do you all take this so seriously? Its not like you all live in the same house etc etc.

Some people need a serious attitude adjustment.

Actually scratch that........the humour would then go

And PS - what has this to do with moderation rules?


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

^Abi^ said:


> > As for personal attacks. C'mon guys, this is a community. It is made up of a REALLY diverse range of people. It is a fact of life that not everyone is going to get along with everyone else. A small amount of bitterness, envy, rivalry, dislike, distrust is inevitable, and trying to kid ourselves that just because we all love TTs, we should all be friends, is just silly. There is nothing wrong with the odd personal comment, the odd slanging match etc. Better to vent the steam once in a while than build resentment. I'm against long running feuds - sure - a forum isn't the place for that. Let them take it to email. But some of the funniest and best-read threads on this place have been the arguments / debates / slanging matches. I'm not suggesting we base the forum around them - but just let them happen and fizzle out again. Its harmless....
> 
> 
> Do you NOT realise though that some people may take offence and MAY be hurt or troubled by some peoples personal attacks where they have worded words so nastly it can upset?
> ...


Nah, I just prefer honesty...

It doesn't "do" to take life in general (and car forums specifically) too seriously. If you are the sort of person to get hurt and / or troubled by the comments of a complete stranger on an internet forum, you've probably reached the point where you should get some fresh air, grab a coffee and realise there is more to life than http://www.********.co.uk

Its a "cause and effect" thing. If you behave like an XYZ, you'll get treated like an XYZ, and occasionally people will CALL YOU an XYZ. If you know you are behaving like that, you can't be surprised by the ensuing effects. If you DON'T know you are behaving like that, perhaps its a wake-up call....


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

OK if you think I am not as loud or bubbly as I am in real life as to what I am on here....I will ask a few who have met me in the flesh and they will correct your throughts and opinions. .


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

^Abi^ said:


> OK if you think I am not as loud or bubbly as I am in real life as to what I am on here....I will ask a few who have met me in the flesh and they will correct your throughts and opinions. .


Maybe you should get them to correct your spelling first.


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

jampott said:


> Maybe you should get them to correct your spelling first.


You couldn't comment to my post really hence why you made a pathetic posting like you did!

Sorry WE all can't be perfect like you TIM!

After all you are superior and bigger and better than everyone else arn't you? :roll:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

^Abi^ said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe you should get them to correct your spelling first.
> ...


Abi,

Despite what you said a few posts above, people DO judge others based on what they post on here. You are judged by others. And you JUDGE others. You have your opinion of me, and it is hypocritical of you to try and claim otherwise.

Having someone "tell" me what you are really like - well it isn't going to change they way I see you, based on the way you post on here. A bit pointless, really. Especially as I'm not that interested.

I've never made ANY claim to be superior or better. Bigger, maybe...


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

*SIGH*

and it was all going so well too - all happiness and light....

Apologies if this appears as over moderation - but if anyone can class the last page or so as constructive and not personal, they are doing a better job than I.

*I have already received 1 request to lock this thread.*

Which I am loathe to do - as it contains (after some cropping here and there) a mainly well mannered and constructive debate.

But I am sorely tempted to get the clippers back out.

If *anyone* would like me to delete any of the posts in here (on an individual basis), please IM me, or any of the other mods.

thank you


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

It would be deeply wrong to delete anything. It isn't a one-sided personal attack by any means, but a discussion and debate.

You would be setting a very damaging precedent if you trim anything.

You have to understand that, even as a moderator, you cannot decide for other people what they are entitled to read. The forum has evolved in a particular way. Lock the thread if you must. It won't make the issues go away.


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

I feel deeply sorry for you Jampott I really do! Your really showing your true colours here on how nasty you can be infront of all your mates!

I so pity any woman that ends up with you, I really do!

Your unbelievable!


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

Tim

I'm all in favour of discussion and debate.
And I'll defend to the end a person's right to have an opinion.

To my mind however (and not with my mod hat on), some of the posts throughout the life of this thread have not so much been about discussion, but more about having a 'go' at someone.

(And no, I am not singling out anyone in particular there)

We all know the rules about getting to personal.

And, IMO, some of the stuff in here has overstepped those rules.

As I said - I'm *tempted* to just remove the personal digs.
I realise that doing so will not resolve the issues - I'm just not sure that airing them in here is the right place to do it.

Which is why I was offerring *everyone* the chance to ask me to delete posts which perhaps with hindsight, they would rather were not being aired in public.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

^Abi^ said:


> I feel deeply sorry for you Jampott I really do! Your really showing your true colours here on how nasty you can be infront of all your mates!
> 
> I so pity any woman that ends up with you, I really do!
> 
> Your unbelievable!


Blimey - you think this is "nasty"? As I've already said, you shouldn't give too much weight to the opinions of complete strangers on internet car forums...


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

Your evil and a very nasty twisted miserable person who moans or has to pick on someone who you know 'could' be vulnerable!

As I said your a very very nasty person with your posts!


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Don't I Recognise You? said:


> Tim
> 
> I'm all in favour of discussion and debate.
> And I'll defend to the end a person's right to have an opinion.
> ...


Ok,

What about all the times we've had a "go" about Tony Blair?

What about all the times we've had a "go" at BMW drivers?

What about all the times we've had a "go" at infiltrators from other forums, here to cause trouble?

What is the difference between those "personal" attacks, and the ones you are seeking to "ban" (or moderate out)?

Are you suggesting that personal attacks on non-members are OK? But attacks on members isn't?

Are you suggesting that personal attacks on *some* members are OK (the ones that "we" (as a forum) disagree with because they've come here to annoy)?

I think its pretty difficult to differentiate, don't you? If you want a place which is free from "anger" and "personal attacks" on members, you have to ban personal attacks on non-members or pseudo-members as well. In fact, even MORE so, as these people have neither the opportunity to respond to the comments made against them, nor the chance to request that moderators delete or lock the topic.

Perhaps I wasn't making myself clear. The forum always used to "allow" personal attacks. It certainly didn't "moderate" them (or trim posts, or delete entire threads). Whether or not there is a concerted effort to change the forum's response to these things, I have no idea. But I (for one) prefered it as it was. Self moderating. Arguments always fizzled out in the past.

But, speaking for myself, nothing will annoy me MORE than having someone censor me. The forum has ALWAYS been against censorship.

Can we have less of the "I haven't decided whether or not to trim anything yet" - just leave it as it is. It is harming noone.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

^Abi^ said:


> Your evil and a very nasty twisted miserable person who moans or has to pick on someone who you know 'could' be vulnerable!
> 
> As I said your a very very nasty person with your posts!


Noone is being picked on. You were quite happy to "argue" and give your opinion, but when someone else gives theirs, all of a sudden they are "nasty and evil". My word... if I didn't know better, I'd say the "frightened rabbit" act was a blatant attempt to get my posts deleted so you can "win". *shrug*

I'm intruiged now, though. Why could you be vulnerable, and why would I know that you 'could' be?


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

Having chopped out the bits that are less relevant to this partcular discussion:



jae said:


> *Just to remind you all what you agreed to when you registered*
> 
> You agree, through your use of this TT forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of ANY law.
> 
> ...


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Don't I Recognise You? said:


> Having chopped out the bits that are less relevant to this partcular discussion:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And?

The majority of items in the flame room violate a large number of those.

You haven't answered my questions - is it OK to post a personal attack on Tony Blair, but not on a forum member?

The forum "constitution" would have us believe that neither is appropriate. So you can't uphold the "law" on one without the other....


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

Jampott :-

What exactly are you arguing about in this thread?

You appear to be all over the place arguing with a lot of people about a lot of things on this forum these days!

Are you constantly drunk? Or maybe you always have a 'manic' bitter, twisted un-human behaviour that seeks phyciatric help!

The way you rant, rave and go on and on makes you come across like you need help in some areas!


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## SteveS (Oct 20, 2003)

stephengreen said:


> SteveS said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Stevie,
> ...


Next time I'm in Lincolnshire let's go for a beer. I'll buy :wink:.

PS For the purposes of clarity this is *not* a sarcastic post.


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

Even better come to Essex and let's all have a meet [smiley=cheers.gif]


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## Sim (Mar 7, 2003)

> If some of you were proper men, and possibly mature enough to actually see light, then you would ignore me, rather than wasting your own time, and burning out your little fingers typing about me!


I am ignoring you Abi and the recent 'debates' (stated in a very mature and sophisticated manner)  :wink:


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Sorry, but having only just caught up on this thread, i find it amazing at the level this has ended up.

I know Tim (JampoTT) fairly well on a personal level & without appearing biased, i know he's not any of the things you refer to in your last post (bitter, twisted & manic) etc. etc.

I however do not know you (^Abi^) on a personal level & therfore can't judge you in real life, however i think you'll find that any issue that has been directed at you on this thread, has not been personal but has been directed at your ******** persona. This scenario has cropped up many times on this forum & both Tim & myself along with many others can recall most of the times / people this issue has affected.

We've had various Trolls, dick-teasers, odd balls & perverts (thats for you V :wink: ) etc. etc. who in real life are probably none of these things, but on here they take on their persona & that in most cases will/has bothered people.

Due to its very nature, this Forum in the main is a virtual community. Some of the people on here know each other on a personal level, but most do not. Relationships have even formed as a result of this forum, but in the most part we do not know each other personally, so our impressions are made up of how they present themselves on the Forum.

Not much more i can say except chill pills need to be taken & some people should calm down a little & reflect.

Have a good day everyone 8) 

Ps. As most of you don't know me personally, i am 6ft 4ins tall, built like a brick sh1thouse, got a fabulous physique, wealthy as hell, can speak 8 foreign languages fluently, got 12 O'levels, 6 A'levels along with 4 Masters degrees & my knighthood & i'm blessed with having a 10inch kn0b 

Pps. My car is fast as fcuk as well 8)


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

^Abi^ said:


> Jampott :-
> 
> What exactly are you arguing about in this thread?
> 
> ...


Its quite simple to follow, Abi, so even you should be able to keep up. I'm talking to DIRY about moderation itself, as he was discussing the issues surrounding deleting / trimming posts. I guess you were following what you and I were talking about...

You maybe incapable of holding 1 reasoned argument or conversation. That doesn't mean others can't be party to several discussions at the same time.


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## stephengreen (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> Don't I Recognise You? said:
> 
> 
> > Having chopped out the bits that are less relevant to this partcular discussion:
> ...


the last sentance brings this thread neatly round to the original post
in which i asked a similar question as regards whether we ban all topics of a sexual nature? or just vlastans?
you cant ban one post for a violation (vlastan for instance) without banning others that have done the same.
paulS wrote

"OK. But IMHO, he is not unfairly singled out. He gets moderated for good reason - because he crosses that boundary that I mention too often."

well the rules dont mention a boundary 
what some people seem to be arguing is that its up to members to complain to have a post banned, not that it hasnt a right to be there in the first place even though the rules clearly state that it hasnt.
the present rules in my view are unworkable
every single one has been broken to some degree or another and its the degree that people are left to squabble about.its left us in the farcical position of moderaters roaming round deciding to what degee they think we may or not tolerate! but the alternative, in fairness to them, is to have them moderate to the letter of the rules.this would be the greater of two evils in my opinion
so in answer to my own question i belive that the "constitution" (as jampoTT aptly calls it) should be re written thus

"You agree, through your use of this TT forum, that you have hereby been strongly advised not to post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of ANY law
if this advise is ignored thenyou remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold harmless this forum, and any related websites to this forum."

censorship problem solved.


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## coupe-sport (May 7, 2002)

Anyway back to the Aston - Which one is it ??


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

stephengreen said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > Don't I Recognise You? said:
> ...


Leaving aside the fact its kinda hard to read your argument, I agree with what I think you are saying...

Its the selective nature of the trimming and deleting I object to. Subjective even. Even down to the fact that what one moderator find acceptable, another doesn't / wouldn't. You either have to moderate strictly according to the "rules" of the forum, or not at all.

DIRY has very nicely posted the "rules" snipped for all to see. But quite plainly these aren't upheld. Far from it. Even by the moderators themselves. So to "allow" them to selectively "decide" which posts to trim, which parts to delete.... nah, I can't agree with that.


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Wow, what have I started. I've just had a quick skim through the last x number of posts - I _really_ hope this thread doesn't get locked, lets see it come to a natural conclusion, however long that takes.

It looks like I have a lot to read and catch up on, but for the time being:



stephengreen said:


> the last sentance brings this thread neatly round to the original post in which i asked a similar question as regards whether we ban all topics of a sexual nature? or just vlastans?
> you cant ban one post for a violation (vlastan for instance) without banning others that have done the same.
> paulS wrote
> 
> ...


No the rules don't mention a boundary. What do you want? 10 pages of specific ruling on what can, and cannot be posted with regard to sexual issues? I have attempted to explain where, IMHO, that boundary lies. It seems to have gone over the top of your head. What is your answer then? A total free for all? Totally unrestriced anal sex postings, links to pornography sites? How about pornography on this site itself, which is more or less what Vlastan has done. Maybe you would like the moderators to apply the forum guideline 100% of the time - i.e immediatley remove absolutely any reference to sex? The rules have to be slightly flexible, there has to be a middle ground.


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

coupe-sport said:


> Anyway back to the Aston - Which one is it ??


lol


----------



## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

PaulS said:


> Wow, what have I started. I've just had a quick skim through the last x number of posts - I _really_ hope this thread doesn't get locked, lets see it come to a natural conclusion, however long that takes.
> 
> It looks like I have a lot to read and catch up on, but for the time being:
> 
> ...


Paul

You have to admit his point is a valid one. Without a defined "boundary", the mods can't uphold the "rules" "properly".

If left to the personal tastes of the individual moderators, what one might find amusing, tasteful, interesting - another might find sick, disgusting and obnoxious.

Noone is suggesting a blanket ban. But that is what (if you read them) the forum rules themselves demand.

Human nature also deems that moderators are unlikely to be impartial. It is surely likely that they will censor and moderate MORE the people they disagree with, and the site runs the risk of being very unbalanced, with those "in control" (or at least friendly with someone who is) having the most say on what can/can't be written.

This is NOT how the TT Forum has been run in the past...


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

vlastan said:


> davethefish said:
> 
> 
> > We are all adults here - the moderators only kick in when things go completely leftfield. Self moderation is not diificult - before one types a post, think, "would I actually say this out loud on a packed train"? Would it cause offence?
> ...


Your attitude is just incredible [smiley=freak.gif] [smiley=stupid.gif]



Vlastan said:


> If someone in the train comes and tell me that what I am discussing with my friend is not appropriate, I will tell him that he/she shouldn't be listening to it in the first place. Same applies here...you don't like it, you don't read it.
> 
> I don't like the Jokes section I don't read it.
> 
> I am not discussing about AS any longer because there is no need to provide any more free lectures in this subject...I passed on to you my knowledge and I expect that by now, you all have enhanced your sexual lives, thanks to me.


I realise that trying to reason with you is pretty much a pointless task. But I'll try once more ...

On the "ban on smoking in public places" thread, you complained about people smoking in public places. You don't like it, smoke gets up your nose.

Well, your "I can say whatever I like in public places and I couldn't give a f**k about anybody else" attitude could be compared to this.

Your constant gutter sex talk and off topic ramblings _*get up our noses, and we don't like it. *_


----------



## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

> Noone is "employed" to doctor my language or my meaning during normal conversations, so I don't need someone to do that job for me on the forum either. Thank you, anyway...


I have to disagree on this. You do need someone to doctor your language somtimes. :? 
I believe that the only times your language has been modified is when you've breached the forum rules. If the moderators are not here to uphold these rules then what are they here for?

You do seem to crop up more than any other person using language that is not allowed in the releavant forums. If being moderated for doing this upsets you then I'm not sure what to say.

Do people want moderators to enforce rules or not?


----------



## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

^Abi^ said:


> Blinding! :lol:
> 
> OK folks! Without me this forum would be a male dominated boring old mans car talk forum!
> 
> Is that REALLY what you all want? With no giggles, no banter and just car chitter chatter in every direction and every thread, post, topic?


Thats very presumptuous of you, Abi. Before you joined, it was nothing of the sort. Infact I would say it was more fun, because we only had one poster making pointless posts, and dragging stuff off topic. Now we have two. I honestly do not find you 'humour' funny at all. I agree with Tim - I find it annoying, and I cringe when I read most of your posts.



> I maybe all sorts of things. Each and everyone of you may have your thoughts and opinions about me. I don't condone that. But, at the end of the day I am human, normal and as it happens, like the rest of you DO take an avid interest in Audi TTs, probably more so than any of you actually. Have done for the past 5 years and am continuing strongly more than ever. Doesn't necessarily mean I am here to piss the majority of you off intentionally because I am not. But it is getting to the point where I am now because some of you really do 'raise to the bait' like little children who have tantrums and can't actually see some enlightment. I have a sense of humour, sorry some of you decide to not share it. My humour 'can' be quite dry and witty in some areas. Sorry for those miserable ones who don't want to share this also.


Acting like little children and having tantrums? You wouldn't be guilty of that, would you .....



> So let me tell you this OK, you may all sit behind your screens knocking me for my posts, I would actually like you to all have the balls to confront me face to face with your thoughts if we ever all meet at a meet! Then you will all really see me for who I am and may actually like me, like quite a lot do on here, who have already met me in the flesh.


May be I would like you if I met you in person, but that's not the point. I meet you on here. You can be fun (sometimes) but if your real life personality is anything like your forum persona, well ....



> So before most of you generate an idea and persona of who I am, think before you start throwing your weight around and knocking my posts please in writing and not in real. I doubt each and every one of you really would have the balls to tell me what you really think of me face to face! Too easy when your on here, behind a screen to type about someone isn't it?


Yeah, may be you should take that advice as well.



> I am getting rather hacked off with all your pathetic comments about my 'going off topic' postings or 'what ever' I post.


How about trying _not_ to go off topic then?



> If some of you were proper men, and possibly mature enough to actually see light, then you would ignore me, rather than wasting your own time, and burning out your little fingers typing about me!


It's kind of hard to ignore you Abi, on here.



> At the end of the day, it doesn't bother me what so ever what many of you think. What many of you think is totally wrong anyhow.


You are 100% sure that what we think is wrong?



> What do I care. But as I see this forum with many people, it really is showing that 'some' TT drivers can be a little 'up themselves' because they think they are. So what you drive a 30k car? Big deal! My husband drives an a brand new company Aston my best friend's hubby drives an Lambourghani! Do I look down on 'some' of you I detest? NO! Do I laugh at 'some' of you lot because you all think you have arrived with your cars? NO!
> 
> So please don't take the piss out me with your pathetic comments because you think I come from a 'low life' back ground because I post the utter crap. I just have a humour and a life!


Why tell us your husband drives a company Aston. Is he better than us for that reason? I'm sorry, but you just seem to keep changing your position, to suit. And can you please stop using the "I'm so much fun" excuse to try get you out of trouble. May be you are, but you don't have to keep telling us.


----------



## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

scoTTy said:


> > Noone is "employed" to doctor my language or my meaning during normal conversations, so I don't need someone to do that job for me on the forum either. Thank you, anyway...
> 
> 
> I have to disagree on this. You do need someone to doctor your language somtimes. :?
> ...


Paul, you speak like I litter every thread or posting with obscenities. I don't. Like most other reasonably well educated people, I am perfectly capable of deciding for myself when swearing is appropriate. Not only do I include quoting (relevant) others in a valid discussion as "appropriate", I also think a (like they do in films) minor swearing and (very) occasional major swearing is "appropriate" when expressing a point, even in polite company.

As such, I don't agree that swearing should be "banned" in some parts of the forum, but not in others. Nor do I think that putting a few stars in here and there really makes a blind bit of difference. Its still swearing.

Its a difference of opinion, I guess. For you, swearing might be childish. For me, continually correcting people who swear (on the INTERNET of all places) is childish...

I accept that we don't want the forum to be "net-nannied", and that people browsing from work may hit problems - but I fail to see how allowing swearing in the flame room but not allowing it elsewhere makes any difference....


----------



## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

And for the benefit of Abi, unless you get slightly lost, hon, that's a third conversation thread... if you can't work it out and follow the gist of it, can I suggest you take a bit of a lie down and come back later?!


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

Oh don't worry I am sitting here PMSL at you lot ranting and throwing your toys out all your prams! Typical really what becomes of the spoilt man who has too much before his time in life!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: .

Carry on about something and nothing you lot .......!


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

P.S. See you all at Brooklands!!


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

^Abi^ said:


> P.S. See you all at Brooklands!!


Why not come in the Aston, instead?

I'm sure we'd all love to see it...


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> [
> I accept that we don't want the forum to be "net-nannied", and that people browsing from work may hit problems - but I fail to see how allowing swearing in the flame room but not allowing it elsewhere makes any difference....


Because if people know what to expect in each forum, they can avoid those where swearing is allowed whilst in work and avoid the "net-nanny" problem.

I gues the point is ultimately that Jae has set some conditions for the use of the site that he provides. This isn't a "public" site. NONE of us, (not me, not you, not any user) have the RIGHT to to do anything here - only Jae has any rights. It's his ball. In general (and sure, mistakes are made, we're all human) I think the moderators try to take a sensible and pragmatic line on moderation - and we do discuss a lot before it gets done. The Recent rise in moderator activity is directly related to the number of users who have been accidentally or deliberately pushing the envelope of what's reasonably acceptable and what's within the forum posting rules.

By the way, someone else has asked me to lock the thread, but currently I agree that it's a discussion worth continuing, so long as it remains a discussion and the personal jibes cease. Sure, lets discuss moderation policy, how to make it better, how to create and keep a site that both serves the TT owning community and those who are just here for the craic. BUT given the comments about the rules not being enforced, I for one will, from this point in the thread forward, just delete, in its entirety, any post with a personal abusive comment directed at another member that does not clearly add to the discussion.

Clive


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

jampott said:


> Paul
> 
> You have to admit his point is a valid one. Without a defined "boundary", the mods can't uphold the "rules" "properly".
> 
> If left to the personal tastes of the individual moderators, what one might find amusing, tasteful, interesting - another might find sick, disgusting and obnoxious.


  Hello Tim

Yes, he has a point. I, like you, find it a little difficult to read exactly what he is saying, but it seems to me, that he is being just a bit pedantic (oh no, not that again :wink: ) His position seems to be that there can be no give or take, no consideration of the circumstances when the forum rule is "broken". The rules must be strictly adhered to, all of the time. Or we will have no rules at all. My point is that there has to be a little give and take. I agree with you that the personal tastes of moderators could vary a bit and could affect a decision as to whether something is moderated, or not. But I think most mature adults with a bit of common sense will know when that "boundary" has been crossed. I'm just waiting for someone to call me a prude - believe me that is not true. I would like to hear someone else's opinion on my "boundary" point. I haven't yet seen anybody stand up for V and say that his "what's wrong with this picture" post was quite acceptable. May be it's just me. If so - tell me.


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

jampott said:


> ^Abi^ said:
> 
> 
> > P.S. See you all at Brooklands!!
> ...


Then again I might come to the other Marques meets, which I have been reading and would very much like to come and have been toying the idea with......hmmmmm decisions decisions :roll: 8) . Can I bring my husband aswell please incase one of you hits me knowing how bad some tempers are?

I'm sure when he has read this thread he will be very much looking forward to meeting some of you :lol:.

Very very much infact


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

^Abi^ said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > ^Abi^ said:
> ...


I've no idea why he would want to meet such a bunch of evil and nasty people.

You are both very welcome to attend the "other marques" meet too - although I very much doubt you will.


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

Hmmmmm dinners calling TTFN you lot - it's been fun [smiley=mexicanwave.gif] [smiley=mexicanwave.gif] [smiley=mexicanwave.gif] [smiley=mexicanwave.gif]


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

clived said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...


Quite why someone would feel the need to ask you to lock the thread is beyond me. If someone isn't personally comfortable with the content of a thread, or where it is heading, they can choose not to read the rest of it. But locking it for that reason is pretty much horse bolted / stable door territory.

Even the most childish name calling arguments will fizzle out...


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Abi - You just can't accept the truth, can you?

Now you resort to making threats ....


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

PaulS said:


> I haven't yet seen anybody stand up for V and say that his "what's wrong with this picture" post was quite acceptable. May be it's just me. If so - tell me.


Personally I didn't see anything wrong with Vlastan's "what's wrong with this picture" post.

Everyone is different and what some find acceptable, others don't. When so many individuals post their thoughts/opinions/findings in a public forum, it is not going to be to every other individuals taste and some may take offense. Whenever this situation arises, I am sure the original poster did not mean to offend others, they just posted something that they found to be acceptable.

So it seems that Vlastan's post went beyond your boundaries of acceptability PaulS, but conversely, on other subjects perhaps you cross other peoples boundaries of acceptability.

I can't say I have noticed much moderator intervention on this Forum, they seem to be pretty chilled and let most things ride. But then I have never witnessed anything that to my boundaries is shocking on this forum.
So either the mod's do their unpaid job very quickly, or the visitors here perform self moderation on the things they post.


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## Major Audi Parts Guru (May 7, 2002)

I'm shakin my head in disbelief after reading this :roll:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

^Abi^ said:


> Hmmmmm dinners calling TTFN you lot - it's been fun [smiley=mexicanwave.gif] [smiley=mexicanwave.gif] [smiley=mexicanwave.gif] [smiley=mexicanwave.gif]


Fun... hmmm so on one hand whining that people are being nasty to you, picking on you, and generally being evil, bitter and twisted towards you.... and on the otherhand, you've had fun?

What colour IS the sky in your world, Abi?

(and what colour is that Aston Martin, too?)


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Major Audi Parts Guru said:


> I'm shakin my head in disbelief after reading this :roll:


...and another interestging and constructive point has just been added to this thread. :roll: :lol:


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

vlastan said:


> Major Audi Parts Guru said:
> 
> 
> > I'm shakin my head in disbelief after reading this :roll:
> ...


Good God, I actually agree with you, Vlastan :roll:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

PaulS said:


> vlastan said:
> 
> 
> > Major Audi Parts Guru said:
> ...


To quote Nelson from the Simpsons...

"Ha Ha"


----------



## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

W7PMC...and I was wondering when you are going to join in! 



> We've had various Trolls, dick-teasers, odd balls & perverts (thats for you V )


Do all of these apply to me or just the last one? :lol:

Scavenger...top man! Apparently PaulS found this very offending. He went red in his face when he saw the picture and my comments. I think if I was discussing about cartoons, he would be more interested then.

And PaulS, you haven't answered why are you still here and what value do you have to offer to the TT forum apart from complaining to everything and anything?


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

vlastan said:


> Scavenger...top man! Apparently PaulS found this very offending. He went red in his face when he saw the picture and my comments. I think if I was discussing about cartoons, he would be more interested then.


Total nonsense from you V, as usual.



> And PaulS, you haven't answered why are you still here and what value do you have to offer to the TT forum apart from complaining to everything and anything?


I didn't bother answering you because:

a) There is little point conversing with you. You usually come back with some dumb answer, and drag the discussion off topic.

b) A couple of (non TT owning) forum members answered and explained why they are still here, and enjoying the place, despite no longer owning a TT. Same situation for me :wink:

May be you would like to back up your claim that I - "complain to everything and anything" Do I? Do a search on all my posts, and see what you find :wink:

And whilst we are on the subject of not answerng posts, you still haven't replied to this:



> I realise that trying to reason with you is pretty much a pointless task. But I'll try once more ...
> 
> On the "ban on smoking in public places" thread, you complained about people smoking in public places. You don't like it, smoke gets up your nose.
> 
> ...


Well?

It would be good if this topic could stay on the subject and continue without getting locked. I don't want it to get dragged off topic :wink: or engage in a slagging match, so I'm going to leave for a while. C U Later :wink:


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## saint (Dec 6, 2002)

Must agree with Jampot on the thread locking bit - if u don't like the direction of a thread don't read it - bit like people that complain about TV programs - don't like it switch off............ though I must say that things of that nature should be moved directly to the flame room regardless of topic nature and the MODS post it as being such.

However since some people are almost teasing the MODS into locking this thread and on the theme of personal attacks - let me just say

so and so is a twat

thingy is just a nerdy jerk

what's his face is just an arrogant fat self obsessed pr--k

thingy - lol - who gives a toss what u think

so and so - get a life

thingmy son go grow up


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> [Paul, you speak like I litter every thread or posting with obscenities. I don't. Like most other reasonably well educated people, I am perfectly capable of deciding for myself when swearing is appropriate. Not only do I include quoting (relevant) others in a valid discussion as "appropriate", I also think a (like they do in films) minor swearing and (very) occasional major swearing is "appropriate" when expressing a point, even in polite company.
> 
> As such, I don't agree that swearing should be "banned" in some parts of the forum, but not in others. Nor do I think that putting a few stars in here and there really makes a blind bit of difference. Its still swearing.
> 
> ...


I had no intention to suggest you litter threads with swearing and I don't believe my post suggested that. It mearly stated a fact. Your posts have been moderated more times for swearing that anyone else. It may be less than 10 or even 5 times but this doesn't change that as a fact.

As a poster on this site, you agree to be bound by the rules. If you disagree with the rules then raise a post in the relevant forum or IM the moderators or Jae for consideration of your thoughts. If you disagree with the rules it doesn't mean you can choose to ignore them. This includes situations where you don't understand the reason the rules are there.

You have a choice: either follow the rules or be subjected to the moderators actions or are you suggesting we should not enforce the rules that are in place hence making a mockery of any of us spending time doing this?


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

There are a lot of people that no longer own a TT but they do come here too. One is Jampo, who is a great bloke and he is presenting well supported evidence on why he believes what he believes. Scavenger as well and Scot who posted in this thread too don't have a TT but they are around as they enjoy this place. They don't just come here to tell me or Abi or the others that they don't like what we post and keep flaming us non stop.

The smoking argument is so different. If I inhale smoke because you smoke, this affects my health. So this is a health issue. Me posting about sex of any kind or anything relating to sex, won't hurt you at all. Also talking about sex in public places. It doesn't hurt anybody's health and it is nothing illegal. So what is the problem?

Anyway, I noticed that you now left for a while...so please make sure you don't come back too soon...please?  

And W7PMC is a liar as well(about how tall you are etc)...and take it easy on the "happy" tablets that you take daily!


----------



## Lisa. (May 7, 2002)

^Abi^ said:


> I feel deeply sorry for you Jampott I really do! Your really showing your true colours here on how nasty you can be infront of all your mates!
> 
> I so pity any woman that ends up with you, I really do!
> 
> Your unbelievable!


 I, for one ,actually like men with the confidence to go against the flow, who can argue their point articulately and coherantly, who aren't afraid to speak their mind and stand up against anyone (who cares to listen) and continue to win the argument on facts, not drivel.

What I don't like are grown women who act like immature attention seeking teenagers, talk total ^shite^, boldly incite others into playground scraps and then play the vulnerable little miss when they get their curly hair pulled. 
And that's not to mention the constant splattering of untruths, so many that its hard to remember what's been said.......hard for you, not us!.
It's obviously a compulsive thing.

The forum may have gained you, Abi, but they also lost many other regular female contributors at the same time. ( And TT owners at that!)


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

vlastan said:


> Anyway, I noticed that you now left for a while...so please make sure you don't come back too soon...please?


I'm going to take KevinST's advice this time:



> Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience


Now that you're here, V, I'll step aside. Please feel free to go right ahead and f*** up yet another thread.


----------



## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

vlastan said:


> There are a lot of people that no longer own a TT but they do come here too. One is Jampo, who is a great bloke and he is presenting well supported evidence on why he believes what he believes. Scavenger as well and Scot who posted in this thread too don't have a TT but they are around as they enjoy this place.


Just for information, I still own a TT and gain real pleasure whenever I drive or look at it (sorry to drag the thread off topic there) :?

And yes Vlastan, I do like this forum and like to read a number of topics posted here, for either interesting TT related information or just for fun. I believe we share a similar sense of humour so I find some of your posts amusing.

Following comment not directed at anyone specifically:

However, I sincerely hope I come across as a none irritating pointless poster; please note Forum joined date and number of posts. Maybe I just have nothing of value to add to any topic. Seems like some members only job in life is hitting the browser refresh button and making yet another inane, pointless comment in some vain attempt to gain recognition or the highest post count - but that's a whole different can of worms and again, sorry to drag the thread off topic :?

My personal thoughts on Moderator moderation (having done the same thing for about 3 years on a Counterstrike forum) is, if they moderated your post, you overstepped the mark, accept it and move on. If you feel that strongly about it, PM the moderators and ask why your post was moderated.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

> We've had various Trolls, dick-teasers, odd balls & perverts (thats for you V )
> 
> Do all of these apply to me or just the last one?


Nick,

The thought of you being a dick teaser runs shivers down my spine, but it was mainly the last one (pervert) with a tough of the 3rd one (odd ball) :wink: Twas meant in the nicest possible way. I actually think you've improved over the past few months, but then again i may have missed some threads due to my recent forum absence.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

vlastan said:


> And W7PMC is a liar as well(about how tall you are etc)...and take it easy on the "happy" tablets that you take daily!


OK OK i've been rumbled, i'm only 6ft 3ins, but the rest is most certainly true  8) :lol: Them blue diamonds don't make me happy, but they sure put a smile on the ladies faces  :wink:


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## Guest (May 6, 2004)

well all i can say is that it is taking an age for that damn video link to load up.....

er.. can someone please summarise all of the above... :?:

or shall I just mention TTQ and then get moderated ?


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

SundeepTT said:


> well all i can say is that it is taking an age for that damn video link to load up.....
> 
> er.. can someone please summarise all of the above... :?:
> 
> or shall I just mention TTQ and then get moderated ?


Sundeep,

I will summarise this to you on Saturday at GTI! :wink:


----------



## stephengreen (May 6, 2002)

scoTTy said:


> As a poster on this site, you agree to be bound by the rules. If you disagree with the rules then raise a post in the relevant forum or IM the moderators or Jae for consideration of your thoughts. If you disagree with the rules it doesn't mean you can choose to ignore them. This includes situations where you don't understand the reason the rules are there.
> 
> You have a choice: either follow the rules or be subjected to the moderators actions or are you suggesting we should not enforce the rules that are in place hence making a mockery of any of us spending time doing this?


scotty my man you must live in a world no bigger than a shed!
your telling us to raise the subject in the relevant forum, HELLO! what the fcuk do you think this thread in this forum is all about!
you say that "if you disagree with the rules dont ignore them"
but thats exactly what moderaters have been doing by not removing ALL posts that break the rules.
what is not being suggested scotty, is that you should not enforce the rules,
but that you SHOULD, fairly and to the letter and not apply personal slants and take it upon yourself to decide for us what we can or cant read.
if anybody doesnt agree with moderaters applying the the rules to the letter than perhaps the rules should be rewritten, or not, thats whats being discussed.
unlike most ive been around long enough to know what this forum ran like unmoderated and it ran fine.
so i for one will nail my colurs to the mast
im against censorship 
i can decide myself what to read or what to ignore
i find it refreshing to think that you can interact with people with no restrictions of thought or ideas 
that you could say what you really think or feel.
you cant be shot in here 
nobodys going to punch you 
nobody gets hurt
i for one would like to see the rules down graded to recommendations
with the provision that the poster absolves the owners of any blame if the law of the land was broken


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

Ok - I'm taking my mod hat off for this post, and posting a PURELY personal opinion.

Having just caught up with the 2 extra pages of posts that have happened since before my tea I have two observations to make.

1) If this is an example of what happens when all the mods adopt a 'hands off' attitude, no one would ever be able to find anything amongst all the name calling.

2) with regard to the comments about 'if you don't like it, don't read it' - absolutely agree. 100%*. Unfortunately, this topic is entitled 'comments on moderation rules'. NOT 'come and have a go if you think you're hard enough'.

Do I expect all threads to remain strictly on-topic?
No, of course I don't. 
I've dragged a few myself in my time.
Probably true to say we all have.

But if I were brand new to this site, and read this thread (or, heaven forbid if this sort of name calling behavior was spread throughout the site!) - would I come back?

Would you?

Honestly?

* which isn't to say that I condone posting anything 'against the rules'.
I just acknowledge that some people's idea of acceptablilty is different to others.
Some may find the most innocent post completly abhorent.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

> But if I were brand new to this site, and read this thread (or, heaven forbid if this sort of name calling behavior was spread throughout the site!) - would I come back?


Not a valid argument. A new person coming to this forum will come for he main TT room, not to read off topic chat. Only established forum members normally come in here.[/code]


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## clived (May 6, 2002)

vlastan said:


> Only established forum members normally come in here.


Nick, have you got any data whatsoever to back that up? How on earth can you track who reads what pages in which areas? The only possible response I can see you coming back with if "I've read all the off topic posts, and newbies don't post here". If that were true, how could you know if lots of newbies don't come and look at Off Topic, but never post because they don't like what they see?


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## Steve_Mc (May 6, 2002)

> Personally I didn't see anything wrong with Vlastan's "what's wrong with this picture" post.


I clicked on it at work, the content of the post certainly contravenes my office internet access policy, as well as potentially causing offence to the female members of my team. I clicked on it as I would have thought it might be some light-hearted humour not smut (albeit of a soft nature), as I would expect from this forum.

Sometimes the mods will get it right, sometimes wrong, I accept that, perhaps others should too?


----------



## KevinST (May 6, 2002)

vlastan said:


> > But if I were brand new to this site, and read this thread (or, heaven forbid if this sort of name calling behavior was spread throughout the site!) - would I come back?
> 
> 
> Not a valid argument. A new person coming to this forum will come for he main TT room, not to read off topic chat. Only established forum members normally come in here.[/code]


Sorry Nick, I disagree 100% From when I was an admin o fthis site I know where new members visit, I know what forums ther read. I also received feedback from several new members saying that they thought the site was good... but would not be coming back.

I also know from personal experiance that when I find a new forum that has a base subject that I'm interested in I will read threads... and normally the most popular ones from all of the boards that are available. Only that way can you gain an appreciation of what the other members of the forum are like. It sadens me to think that this thread, with all it's content will be read by new members... I wonder why they would want to stay and join this community.

One last comment... please remember that this site is not run by a committe, the rules are not agreed by members voting for or against them - only one person decides what's acceptable or not and that's Jae. Unfortunatly he's either unable, or unwilling, to participate in this discussion.


----------



## r1 (Oct 31, 2002)

barely_legal said:


> ^Abi^ said:
> 
> 
> > I feel deeply sorry for you Jampott I really do! Your really showing your true colours here on how nasty you can be infront of all your mates!
> ...


Here here BL, well said. I think you've summed it up uite nicely there with the schollgirl analogy!


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## SteveS (Oct 20, 2003)

Don't I Recognise You? said:


> But if I were brand new to this site, and read this thread (or, heaven forbid if this sort of name calling behavior was spread throughout the site!) - would I come back?
> 
> Would you?
> 
> Honestly?


Acch, I hate to disagree with you DIRY, but yes. A) Because I have never been on any forum worth it's salt where this sort of thing doesn't occur at some point or another, it's how it's handled that matters, and in reality compared to a non-moderated forum this is truly tame (take a look at some non-modded forums on newsgroups for evidence if you like; rec.audio.opinion may be a good place to start :wink. B) Because it's a better read than yet another thread on coilpacks (tongue firmly in cheek here).


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## Dotti (Mar 9, 2003)

Wondered how long it would be before you two put your two pennith in and would join in just for the pure sake of it!

So then, getting back on topic!

If this was a slagging match between Pauls and Vlastan (which in my eyes they way I saw it they were having forum banter) here and has to be locked by 'mr moderator' http://www.********.co.uk/ttforumbbs/vi ... hp?t=25751 ........where do you think this actual thread is leading to - yet another slagging off match which appears to be going round and round in circles from slaggin off me to Vlastan to scensorship from the moderators.

Bit democtratic really!

Still there you go.


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## SteveS (Oct 20, 2003)

Since I can't post in the other thread. Iggy pop :wink:.


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

SteveS said:


> Since I can't post in the other thread. Iggy pop :wink:.


Ohhh Steve, you've gone and spoilt it now. I was going to give V a clue and tell him it isn't the Spice Girls or Atomic Kitten :wink:


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

> I clicked on it at work, the content of the post certainly contravenes my office internet access policy, as well as potentially causing offence to the female members of my team. I clicked on it as I would have thought it might be some light-hearted humour not smut (albeit of a soft nature), as I would expect from this forum.


Exactly. IMHO it crosses that 'boundary' and shouldn't be allowed here. 
Nick - you and I never have got on that well, have we? We've had the same argument over what you post before. In fact, come to think of it, last time so many people got fed up with what you post, that they left and set up their own forum.



> I also know from personal experiance that when I find a new forum that has a base subject that I'm interested in I will read threads... and normally the most popular ones from all of the boards that are available. Only that way can you gain an appreciation of what the other members of the forum are like. It sadens me to think that this thread, with all it's content will be read by new members... I wonder why they would want to stay and join this community.


I agree. There are two issues being discussed - Abi posting constant [email protected] all over the place, and V's dodgy sex postings. If it were not a problem, I don't think so many people would have contributed to this thread.

Stephengreen - thanks for stating your position on censorship. Personally, I'm not for relaxing the rules, because I think that that could cause more swearing amongst other things and downgrade the site. I think that they are fine, just as they are. As others have said, if only some people would just think twice before they post - "could this cause offence", "is what I am about to post appropriate for the conversation" "am I taking the conversation off topic"


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

> In fact, come to think of it, last time so many people got fed up with what you post, that they left and set up their own forum.


This is wrong of wrong. Ask Wak and he will tell you the truth about this.

OK...so now that we all know who he is, he is a skiny, naked, homosexual, junky then. :wink:


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## davethefish (May 5, 2004)

This post could go on for ever. As a new member (I have been on/off the forum for 2.5 years - just got a TT and registered) I've always respected the TT forum - very informative and helpful people.

Now with access to the flame room you can instantly see the differences between the main techy forum and Off Topic/Flame Room. The people who have been highlighted post in both. Respect for the forum rules is applied in the main forum and they lax in the OT/Flame room. This for me is an example of self moderation, to a certain degree. The problem arises from a difference in what is deemed as decency - how do you quantify that? (Hint: _I may think its fine to talk about anal probing - would it offend others?)_

The Mod's have got a difficult task and without Jae rewriting the forum rules I think we have to exercise a long lost forgotten art of *common sense*.

V I don't know you from Adam, from the many posts I've read you seem like a character and a half, but can I plead with your sensible side just for a sec - I asked you earlier in the postings if you would have a conversation about Anal Sex on the train for others to hear. Your answer was yes - but somehow, and I'm not calling you a liar - I doubt that very much. Your response was they shouldn't be listening - unless you can get your voice to defy all known laws of physics and direct your loud vocal output to the person your discussing Anal Sex with you're argument is flawed. The commuters don't (may not) want to hear it but have no choice but to be subjected to it.

It's the same as this forum - you could click on a topic with a Subject Title of "Does a hamster make a good pet" and half way through there is reference to Richard Gere and how useful he found a Hamster (or was that a gerbil?) The point is I didn't have a choice as a reader - I've already been subjected to Anal sex comments half way through a sensible thread. The argument that don't read it if you don't like it is daft. If the Subject line said "There is reference to Anal Sex in this Thread" then I have a choice.

Abi has had a real ear bashing - I'm afraid I may have started that with my original comments - but the argument for quality input is also the same - its too late to unread a posting and have it deleted from your memory - maybe we should have a sign which states that "Abi has contributed to this thread". At least that gives me a choice to read the thread or take my chances.......


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## snaxo (May 31, 2002)

Well posted DavetheFish. A quality 4th post. Some people have not posted a post of that quality in many thousands.... :wink:

I agree wholeheartedly with your comments.

I personally am not offended by sexual reference - I just find them quite boring and irrelevant really here now. Same old same old. Personally I think the mods do a fine job and would be quite ok with them sticking closely to the rules in all dicussion area's.

Damian


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Davethefish - very well said.

I admit - I'm not whiter than white - I'm guilty in that I've probably stirred up a bit too much trouble by my postings here on this subject. I'm not known for backing down on a subject when I feel a point has to be made. I guess it's just a personality clash.

Can we all just make up and be friends again? I wouldn't want to see Nick or Abi banned, I have enjoyed banter with both of you in the past, and hope it will continue.

Nick - re my sig pic - I don't use it for any particular reason, he's just an artist that I happen to like. If you think I'm a prude and can't stand swearing or sex talk, then just have a look at what iggy does, and you'll understand why.

I think a bit of peace and love and good vibes are needed all round. I might change the sig pic to one of my other favourites - a bit of Hed Kandi :wink:


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## phil (May 7, 2002)

Very well reasoned argument, particularly from a fish. 
I don't get bothered by the filth some people want to post. I'd personally prefer it stuck to innuendo and poor quality detail, rather than the legendary vlastan thread, which I read once only if I recall.
I also don't mind my comments being moderated, as long as I'm told as such. 
Shout me down but this is the way I'd like things to work....
-Someone complains about a thread to moderator
- moderator edits post and sends original post to poster via IM
- Original poster can re-edit post to remove offensive material and traces of it all having happened.

Might not work though. Depends on how much the moderators get overloaded with posts.

Sometimes we get it wrong. I've sworn in the off-topic area before and gone back and edited it out because I noticed where the post was.


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## poTTy (Jan 20, 2004)

Having just read this entire diatribe all i can say is that every single person who has posted here needs to go out and get a life.

Read back through this whole post...is it really worth it eh.

Life's too short for all this.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

poTTy said:


> Having just read this entire diatribe all i can say is that every single person who has posted here needs to go out and get a life.
> 
> Read back through this whole post...is it really worth it eh.
> 
> Life's too short for all this.


*lol*

You read the entire thing? If you didn't need to go get a life yourself, you'd have given up after page 3 and gone and done something more interesting...

Pot, Kettle, Black?


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## poTTy (Jan 20, 2004)

QED

ROFLMAO @ Jampott

[smiley=stupid.gif]


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## L8_0RGY (Sep 12, 2003)

poTTy said:


> Having just read this entire diatribe all i can say is that every single person who has posted here needs to go out and get a life.
> 
> Read back through this whole post...is it really worth it eh.
> 
> Life's too short for all this.


Another quality 4th post if i may say.

I hadn't read this thread since the 2nd page when it descended into a slagging match, and really don't want to offend anyone BUT.

How can you read all 12 pages of this???

I got bored after the 4th and skipped straight to the 11th.

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath, and use their fingers for typing for constructive posts in other threads which are posting in and not just for slagging off other people who you may or may not have met.


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

poTTy said:


> Life's too short for all this.


Whilst some were out living their life, you had nothing more pressing to do than sit and read this thread and post a reply at 12:40am on a Friday night. I would like to comment further but in a bit of a rush, with it being a Saturday night an all, just on my way out.

Though in places the discussion may have slipped "off topic", original members of this forum were debating a point of interest.

Nuff said.


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

If we were to sift out all the bits in this thread that were actually about moderation, it *is* an interesting read....

Unfortunately the majority of it isn't (either interesting, or about moderation).

Of course, were any of the mods to do that, no doubt there would be a few complaints about *over*-moderation.

Which is kinda where we came in. :?

Go figure.


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

PS.

no - that wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, just a comment in general.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, it's just that I (for one) would rather not have to read the personal digs and jibes.


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## poTTy (Jan 20, 2004)

Ever heard of speed reading :?: Probably a too advanced concept for most of you :wink:

Btw, still laffin my head off at you all :lol:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Don't I Recognise You? said:


> PS.
> 
> no - that wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, just a comment in general.
> 
> Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, it's just that I (for one) would rather not have to read the personal digs and jibes.


I quite like reading the personal digs and jibes, once in a while. I also suspect a few others do too...

This is the "off topic" room, so chat doesn't have to be TT related.

So don't you think it should be up to us what is discussed? At the risk of rolling out a cliche, "don't read the bits you aren't interested in". You obviously were interested enough to come back and post on this thread and comment on its content.

Or did you just pop your head round the door to make sure we were all behaving, and hadn't torn each other limb from limb?


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## Dont I Recognise You (Oct 10, 2003)

jampott said:


> I quite like reading the personal digs and jibes, once in a while. I also suspect a few others do too...


Quite possibly - I don't.



> This is the "off topic" room, so chat doesn't have to be TT related.


 Yes, indeed, agreed. Which is why it's as good a place as any for a thread to discuss moderation. Although, possibly 'Site News' may also have been appropriate.



> So don't you think it should be up to us what is discussed?


 I didn't make the rules that we all signed up to when coming in here 



> At the risk of rolling out a cliche, "don't read the bits you aren't interested in". You obviously were interested enough to come back and post on this thread and comment on its content.
> 
> Or did you just pop your head round the door to make sure we were all behaving, and hadn't torn each other limb from limb?


 :lol: :lol: :lol:

I *could* say that I was hoping to read some gems about the levels of moderation and it's implementation, given the thread title..... 

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

coupe-sport said:


> Anyway back to the Aston - Which one is it ??


Aston Focus TCDi? :twisted:

Just skimmed some of this moderation _opus magnum_. My, we all have been busy. :wink:

I also just came back from *upthechuff.net *where some twat had to be reprimanded for constantly taking the wholesome focused anal sex threads off topic, by continually bringing up the subject of, or turning the topics to bloody Audi TTs. What are some people like? :twisted:

As both a contributor and a moderator I personally favour the lightest of touches from the Moderator Function. And I just love a good dispute. :twisted: Most people inherently _know_ the way things should be conducted around here. Some just use it to get ther Warholian 15 Minutes Fame, encapsulated in a 13 page thread largely about them. Great. :wink:

However, the fact that some are detered from the Forum as a whole, by others' missives is a shame but also an inevitability. When the audience covers the spectrum from the profane to the puffed-up-self-righteous, polarisation in views about 'rightness' and 'appropriateness' of words, statements, sentiments, mood, tone etc, are just a certainty. But not a problem for grown ups.

Would anyone like me to call back the infamous Self Righteous Lynch Mob from their Middle Eastern tour?

"Carry on Chaps." :wink:


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

> I also just came back from upthechuff.net where some twat had to be reprimanded for constantly taking the wholesome focused anal sex threads off topic, by continually bringing up the subject of, or turning the topics to bloody Audi TTs. What are some people like?


There are some weird people out there. 

At least this individual (some twat), was reprimanded, so justice was paid.


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

garyc said:


> coupe-sport said:
> 
> 
> > Anyway back to the Aston - Which one is it ??
> ...


Great summary, Mr C. You're a sly fox, aren't you? You've been conspicuous by your absence throughout all of this.

I love a good debate too - it seems to happen on here in cycles. It's just a shame that this one had to be on a subject covered before. Oh well, until the next time, back to coilpacks .... :roll:

Aahh, the self righteous Lynch mob. I think that some of them returned from the middle east and infiltrated us, without us realising it. A sobering thought.

Vlastan - why don't you set up your own forum website? I'm being quite serious. www.upthechuff.net - lol! We would use the same forum names as here, so we would know who's who.

You are such a legendary figure and respected expert on all anal subjects. The chairman (and chief moderator) would of course, be Lord V :wink:

I'm sure that a lot of us from here, who were interested in the subject, would go there. Possibly, even me :evil: :wink:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

PaulS said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > coupe-sport said:
> ...


Been away. :wink:


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