# Smokers



## Widget (May 7, 2002)

When will you realise that you fucking stink!


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

I am sure that smokers don't care how much they stink, when they enjoy smoking so much!

The pleasure is above everything for these people.


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2002)

I'm sure that smokers are aware that they stink.

I'm also sure that smokers, whether they care to admit it or not, don't smoke for the pleasure.

The reason they smoke is simple. They are hooked on the most most addictive drug there is - nicotine.

Under these circumstances, smokers deserve your pity, not abuse.


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## reavil (May 7, 2002)

Can I take it, that you don't take the most socially damaging drug there is, alcohol?


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Whether you abuse or pity them, they still stink. And if you're in a room with them, then all your clothes stink too.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

...at least you can't smell their smelly armpits and feet! Smokers can't smell as well as the rest of us and they don't realise when there is a need for a wash!!


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## speedfreak (May 12, 2002)

I was asked the other day if I could give someone a lift home after a dinner party. When she finally had said goodbye ( why does it take women soooooo long to say that one word?), she walked to my car with a cigarette in one hand. She continued to open the door and get in still with the burning shit stick. I asked if she could throw it away or at least finish it outside. Well it was as if I had asked her to give me a blowjob in front of the pope. She went ballistic.Shouting that what would I say if she said I couldn't drink alcohol?She became completely menopausal and in the end I shut the door and drove off. Stupid smelly bitch.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

20 Marlboro Lights and a packet of Rizla King reds please.


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## pgtt (May 7, 2002)

what bout da erbs man 8)


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Speedfreak,

Well done man! You demonstrated a decisive character. If I was you I would tell her to go fuck herself too!!


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

M_TT_568

Pity! Smokers can stick your pity up their arse!

TT 51YLE

Sure I consume alcohol. But just because I'm supping on a cup of wine doesn't mean you have to does it?

Speedfreak

LOL. Good work fella. Cheeky bitch! She needs a good kick in he C***!


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## vagman (Sep 6, 2002)

That'll be clit, I take it


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## reavil (May 7, 2002)

> 20 Marlboro Lights and a packet of Rizla King reds please.


Kev, and I'll supply the rest


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## donny (Sep 5, 2003)

eh matches


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> Speedfreak,
> 
> Well done man! You demonstrated a decisive character. If I was you I would tell her to go fuck herself too!!


Would that have been anally vlatsan?


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

So can anyone highlight any redeeming features of smoking?

There must be reasons for doing it?


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## vagman (Sep 6, 2002)

They keep our taxes down by funding HM Treasury .


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Smokers are adicted to nicotine and the tar in the cigarets is damaging their health   to the end that extremities might have to be amputated.
Alcoholics face a similar risk caused by a different drug, although over-consuption of alcohol normally leads to high blood pressure.
Facit: both types of adicts are a drain on the NHS and, ultimatly us: the tax payers.
It is NOT easy to educate users of either. Nevertheless, I think it's worth trying for their sake   
So, whenever you see a person using alcohol or nicotine to excess, try to stop them. They won't thank you for it, but you should do it anyway!


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Anyone has any statistical figures on this then? Do smokers and alcoholics contribute more in the tax system or do they cost more to the NHS???


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Both groups are a drain on the NHS. Smokers more than alcoholics. I don't have the figures in front of me but from memory it is a 60/40 % split


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Wrong answer Daniela!! What the hell...are you drunk again????

I am looking for different figures! I am not comparing alcohol and smoking addicts here. I am comparing how much revenue do BOTH of them raise and how much BOTH of them, cost the NHS?

Capito???

PS and stop drinking after hours please!! Â :-*


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

It's "revenue" not revenew!
Who's drinking then????????????


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Happy now!!

...and you still haven't answered my question!!!


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

You haven't answered mine either !!!!!!!!


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

But here you go: 
Revenue: smokers contribute more than alcoholics. So it may be 65/35 % or even 70/30%
Cost to the NHS, s.a.
As hospital treatment is very expensive the question remains: who is worse?????????? (alcoholics usually don't take up as many hospital beds a s smokers and don't require/receive as much treatment)


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Talking to yourself again?

I told you to stop drinking!! Didn't I?

:-* :-*


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Coke or old age


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## 55JWB (May 7, 2002)

Big difference here guys!!  

If I have a drink every now and again, no problem..

When someone else smokes in your face you will die,, ask The Castle family (as in Roy)

Me drinking does not cause other people to die smoking does, it is a well known fact, you cannot compare the two!

Smoking Sucks

Big anit smoker

Jason


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

That's very true, Jason.
I couldn't agree more: I hate being in a smoke-filled room :-[ Â But, likewise, I don't like to be with people who are drunk.


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## 55JWB (May 7, 2002)

Meant to say ANTI smoker not some kind of Ali G speak.. 

Jason


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

In the USA smoking in public is no longer allowed. I hope this catches up in the UK too soon!


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## 55JWB (May 7, 2002)

As well as all public spaces In Singapore they even tried to stop you smoking in you're own car and Garden!!

Can only smoke inside your own house with a box on your head thats my vote!!


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Just back from my well earned rest and already a decisive arguement brewing ;D ;D

I'm a smoker and i enjoy having a cigarette, but i don't smoke in my car (so dont throw butts at people) i dont smoke in my own house (causes smelly soft furnishings) and i wont smoke in other peoples houses unless they invite me to. I also would not smoke in close proximity to company, unless there were a number of other smokers, or i had checked that no-one had a problem with me smoking close to them.

I don't like the smell of smoke on other people, but this stink only tends to apply to very heavy smokers and i only smoke between 10&20 a day depending on circumstances.


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Paul

So where do you smoke?

In the garden and in the park huh? Thanks for being considerate. I wish more people were like you.


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Blimey Paul....was this 10 days you are away? That was like it was yesterday we were chatting!!

At least you on of the good smokers...happy to hear this!


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2002)

I have smoked for many years now (too many!!) and I am in the process of giving up. Like a lot of smokers, I have tried before but without success, this was because I felt it was just thing to do. This time however it is different. I promised my wife that if I got my TTR then I would stop smokong to help finance the purchase. The way I am doing this is to have one less cigarette a day each week. ie. last week I allowed myself 6 cigarettes a day, this week I shall allow myself 5 and so on. Also I do not smoke in my car, the house or anyones house or anywhere I feel it would make other people feel uncomftable. I have no hesitation in smoking in a pub though (unless its in a non smoking area of course) becuase I feel that people going to a pub know that there are going to be people smoking in there. I have no problem with other people smoking.

And now for drinking. What Widget feels to smokers - I feel to drinkers. They stink of booze, they are obnoxious when they have had more than they think they can take (they always think they can handle it the more they drink) They can choose to take someons life out in a split second by driving under the influence (Roy Castle chose to play in night clubs and bars knowing that he would be a pasive smoker - his decision to earn money that way) no one choses to die by hurling themselves in front of a drunk driver. Twelve teenage kids ended up in our local hospital on wednesday night due to two young girls getting drunk and starting a fight over a lad who was as drunk as they were and then all their "mates" joined in. How much did that one incident cost the NHS?

Lets face it, drinking and smoking in excess is bad for everyone concerned but IMHO there is a bit of a "Holier than thou" attitude in most of the threads above.

Let the shit throwing begin;D

Graham


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Yeap, Graham, anything in excess is bad :'( 
Did you enjoy your hols, Paul?? Went to St. James and Sam Lord's Castle, the Flower Caves etc? Down in the sub?


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Daniela,

Do you suggest that SEX in excess is bad for you?? If SEX is performed well, it can beat any gym workout anytime!!

There are always exceptions to the rule and this is one!!!!


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Good points Graham.

However, my argument is that I end up stinking when you smoke. You don't end up stinking when I drink, do you?


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Widget:

I smoke outside my house as i have a large and quite pleasant garden. The reason for me not smoking in the house, is 2 fold. Firstly it keeps my home smelling lovely and secondly i have to make the effort to go for a smoke, where as if i smoked indoors i'd spark up whenever i felt like it and as its cold up north in the winter, this action probably reduces the amount i smoke 8) ;D

Daniela:

I had a superb time and would go back again tomorrow. The only real trip i took, was a Catamaran cruise on the Rubaiyat which involved scuba and snorkelling around the reefs with the shipwrecks, turtles and amazing marine life (boat had a free bar as well) Spent most of my time around the St Lawrence Gap area and on the South Coast Beaches. Met some fabulous people on my travels, but Barbadians must be among the friendliest people on the planet. I see you and Vlastan were having a play in my absense  ;D 

Vlastan:

Only does seem like yesterday. I see your post count has shot up dramatically while i was away. Are there any particular threads i need to read to get back up to speed? 8) Sex in excess can be bad for you, so Daniela is right. Different people will view excess differently and excess sex can no doubt be fun, but too much of most things will eventually cause some kind of harm  

LoveiTT:

Could not agree more with your post. I also have tried a couple of times to give up, but as yet without any major success. None of us are perfect and i for one, would rather drink a little too much, smoke a little too much and perhaps drive my TT a little too fast, than sit at home watching other people have all the fun ;D ;D ;D


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2002)

Widget, I know what your saying but the only time I would smoke near you would be either outside or in an area where it is still acceptable to smoke, ie in a pub. If you came to my home you or I would not smell of smoke. I take other peoples preferences into consideration in all things including smoking and I would not dream of having a cigarette if it made someone feel uncomtable. My in-laws are just as anti smoking as you are and when I go and visit them for a whole day I do not even think about having a cigarette. Having said all this, I agree completely with what your saying. I was following someone from behind at work who had just had a cigarette and boy could you tell!!

So tell me Widget, what do you do that might realy piss me off - get drunk maybe?;D

Graham


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

I couldn't agree more, Paul: Bajans are THE friendliest people I've ever met. We have many friends there 
On a more serious matter: I'm sure you know that smoking (even as few as 2 cigs a day) is the shortest route to CHD (Coronary Heart Disease). Apologies, but I had to mention it :'(
See you on Sunday, no doubt


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

Paul,

I have been very busy indeed when you were away! The good news is that I am now coming to Beaulieu!

Apart from that..nothing much interesting has happened apart from Vek...that is learning how to count numbers!!! Â ;D

And of course I am number 9 in the top 20 posters now...can you catch me? Â 

So did you meet any interesting ladies....the black ladies there can move there bottoms in an amazing way...did you notice??

What do you mean with little play with Daniela? Do you mean the funny postings before yours?


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Graham, you must agree though that considerable smokers, like yourself and Paul are a rare breed aren't they?

Don't get me wrong Graham, I'm a live and let live kinda guy, and if you saw me you'd realise that I'm certainly not one of the guys that you mentioned earlier, you know ready to take on the world when they've had too many bevvies.

I'm all up for making the most out of life and indeed enjoy the finer pleasures, but SMOKING IS NOT ONE OF THE FINER PLEASURES IN LIFE!

I did ask earlier if there were any personal redeeming features to smoking and am yet to get a plausible reply.

Please, someone, enlighten me.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

A pedantic point, but worth pointing out here to the anti smoking-anywhere fascists. Fact: Roy Castle died of lung cancer not directly and medically attributed to passive smoking as many would have you believe. That he spent time in smokey clubs does not automatically mean that there is a cause and effect to his cancer. No coroners or consultants medical report has attributed his cancer directly to this, although it may be a contributory factor, as would living and working in carcogen-riddled urban areas as he did. It is only Castles family and the media that pruport this ungrounded myth.

The other fact is that industrial fallouts and emission are acknowledged as being at least as dangerous as smoking in lung and throat cancer cases.

In reality no one who drives a car should grizzle about smoking emissions on the street or outside. In the car, home and office it is a different matter.

Smokers and drinkers all contribute more to exchequer than they ultimately take back out. Lack of tax revenue if everyone gave up smoking and drinking, would mean significant income and indirect VAT increases for all.

I used to smoke but gave up 8 years ago and would not deny others one of lifes little pleasures. If you don't smoke, you really won't get that point. If you do or have, then you will. Now i have the occasional herbal remedy and really enjoy it.

Stress kills more folk than smoking. Heart disease from all the crap junk food does and will kill even more than smoking alone - there are more than enough no smoking areas in UK. Californias anti -smoking laws are just pathetic. France had a go but no one took any notice. It will never be completely banned in this country.

smoking is democratic. of course it is bad for you but you have the choice. Pubs would just not be pubs without smoking.

Rant over.


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## Ruffles (May 6, 2002)

Well said Gary.

I must come out as well in the defense of smokers. My problem is that the anti-smoking campaign is becoming an evangelical "holier than thou" witch hunt. I don't like it when the majority enforce their opinions on the minority.

Smoking might kill the smoker.

Smoking might even kill the non-smoker next to them.

Smokers know this and mostly they don't care.

Non-smokers almost always hate the smell of tobacco being smoked.

A light smoker doesn't smell much. You're as likely to end up with smelly breath from a cup of coffee.

There's lots of other things in the world that will kill you such as cars on the road, other toxic substances released into our environment by numerous industries and even if none of that were present there is also stress.

I for one have no intention of dying of fucking boredom. My own personal nemesis is cancer arising from excessive time spent in the sea and sun (healthy) outdoors when I was much younger probably coupled with a genetic prediliction for it.

I enjoy a cigar and smoke one about once a month. And it is a pleasure. At this rate I would hardly describe it as an addiction. What is not a pleasure is some self-rightous arsewipe telling me that I shouldn't do it in a public place that I have a right to.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Daniela:

Could not agree more. I've always found that in most cases, the Americans seem to be forcing a friendly approcah to tourists to gain a bigger tip, but to the Bajans its much more natural. Got some great tales from some of the nights out that i will share with you at Beaulieu. Are you and Ron coming down on the Saturday, or just for the Sunday? I do intend to try giving up again a little later this year ;D ;D

Vlastan:

I'm sure you've been taking lessons on post count increasing   Does not look as though i missed much o the forum. I was referring to the funny postings. Did meet some of the local ladies and you're right, they can do rather interesting things with their botties   but here is not the place as i don't want to steal any of your Anal thunder. As with Daniela, i'll enlighten you with the tales on Sunday ;D ;D

Garyc & Ruffles:

Totally agree with all your points. I am a considerate smoker and always have been, but if this country tried to ban any of my current (totally legal) pleasures, then i'm sure my response would be to fuck off to a country where they dont repress some of lifes simple pleasures  8) ;D


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Paul,
I'll be coming to Beaulieu on my own but don't know exactly what day. Ron will be kind enough to look after my Club Audi meeting up here for me. Good on you to try and quit smoking    After a while you'll feel much better for it. Ask me for advice if you want to.
Gary, unfortunately you are not quite right on your quotes. Fact is: smoking is the single most contributory factor to Coronary Heart Disease which can lead to Myocardial Infarction (heart attack) and/or Cerebrovascular Accident (Stroke), followed closely by: high blood pressure, high blood cholesterol, diabetes, lack of physical activity and family history.
I agree that the Inland Revenue fills their coffers throug tax on alcohol and tobacco (and petrol!!!); unfortunately the NHS has to dish out hughe amounts too to try and help sufferers.
Last point: I used to smoke until the age of 26. So I'm perhaps one of those people who dislike smoking most. And, from experience, I found peer pressure to carry on smoking to be almost impossible to resist!


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

...so Daniela...you gave up smoking 5 years ago only??? I though you had smell of smoke in your clothing last time I met you!!

:-*


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

That was the guy on the next stand at the NEC :'( What you mean: 5 years ago: it was yesterday I gave up ;D


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> Paul,
> Gary, unfortunately you are not quite right on your quotes. Fact is: smoking is the single most contributory factor to Coronary Heart Disease which can lead to Myocardial Infarction (heart attack) and/or Cerebrovascular Accident (Stroke), followed closely by: high blood pressure, high blood cholesterol, diabetes, lack of physical activity and family history.


a3
dfu, I am interested in your numbers here. (I know. stat, stats and damned lies etc). I was looking at a report which suggested that <25% of the total population now smoke and that conversly, approaching 40% of the popultation is obese, and therefore heart disease due to poor diet (junk food) is now the single largest contributory factor to coronary heart disease? It was in the Lancet but I cnat remember authors or editions. I would be surprised if smoking is no.1 killer given that we can easily observe that more people are non-smokers than smokers. (make a quick count around you)

Hence my point about not just making pariahs of smokers. In fact lets ban junk food consumption and obese people from all public areas since I object to their rank and fatty odours.

Can we also ban nylon sports wear since i am sure that it is a health hazzard too.


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

um.... just wondering if <25% of the population smokes, what %age of the population passive smokes :
I t's been mentioned on here that passive smokers have a choice. Some do and some don't. How many people (like me) were brought up in a household where their parents smoked and at a young age had no idea of the damage smoke causes / didn't have a choice. Just interested :


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## Ruffles (May 6, 2002)

Does anyone smoke during sex I wonder...


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Gary,
I have summerised findings of the ACSM (American College for Sports Medicine) from Guidelines for exercise testing and prescription; 6th edition 2000, who constantly research ALL health related issues, the Gayton Group and the British Hypertension Society ~ Guideline for management of Hypertension: report of the third working party of the BHS as summarised in BMJ 4/9/99 as well as: John Buckley, Jane Holmes and Gareth Mapp in their book: Cardio Vascular Activity for Health ISBN 0 7506 3288 7
I agree that an unhealth diet is also a huge contributing factor to CHD and CVA and so is lack of physical activity but it is superceeded by smoking.
I'll be happy to discuss all of this with you at the weekend should you come to Beaulieu

I hope I haven't offended anyone with "science waffle" :-[


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

NuTTs,

I too grew up in a home with two smoking parents and it is only now that I have moved out I am realising just how bad the smell is and how it gets everywhere.

I went to give my Father a gift on Sunday and went to the toilet to blow my nose. Even the bloody toilet paper stunk of cigarettes.

Here's one for you all to ponder: with only less than 25% of the population smoking isn't about time for pubs etc. to be predominantly no-smoking with dedicated smoking areas?


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Daniela,

Good data, but unfortunately US centric - where the demographics are vastly different to UK. Also sports-centric from the land of anally retentive body fascists where one is a sports nut, or donnut couch potato; where one is a serial killer or in therapy. (I am joking btw).

It is however dubious to make comparisons from UK to the land where they can't even drink honest coffee!

Scotland has the highest per capita heart disease in Europe. Diet is the major contributor but I also think smoking is more popular in Scotland.

anyway Uk data please. and leave our pubs alone.

widget,

"with only less than 25% of the population smoking isn't about time for pubs etc. to be predominantly no-smoking with dedicated smoking areas? "

too many already are. Now nearly 30% of the populous don't touch alchohol (source Mori 2000) should we also set aside dedicated alchohol-free areas in pubs?

And while we are at it, how about dedicated areas in restaurants for veggies, so they dont have to have the mental anguish of witnessing the carnage of meat eating; or areas for gays, so they feel comfy without heteros dominating; of areas just for blacks...?

Extreme examples but you get the picture. supply and demand should dictate whether there are none- smoking pubs and restaurants, NOT LEGISLATION. Or those that feel strongly are free to open their own non smoking venues or find alternatives.

As an ex-smoker i look forward to sitting in a smokey pub watching footie on Friday. And I am pleased that in a democracy I actually have that choice. i can always stay at home in my oxygen tent..


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

You're right of course. It should all be down to choice. If someone wants to sit in a smokey pub, then let them. If someone does not want to sit in a smoking area of a pub, then also let them.

Not sure though that your logic is sound, when debating the point re: vegetarian and teetotalers. IF you didn't have a choice on where to sit, then a vegetarian / teetotaler sitting next to a carnivore / alcohol drinker, respectively would not cause physical harm. Conversely in the case of "no choice" passive smoking does cause physical harm.

It may or may not cause as much harm as diet or drinking and driving, underage sex, etc,but with respect this debate does not cover these topics.

This thread (debate) is how harmful smoking is to a non-smoker.

My own opinion is that I want to have the choice. And if pubs had non-smoking areas then I would use them preferentially. I do not like smelling of smoke. I do not like the smell of smoke. I do want to breathe in someone elses exhaled smoke.

This does not make me a fascist. It simply makes me a person who does not like cigarette smoke and a person who has seen first hand the effect of smoking on close family members.

Forget the fact and figures about which desease kills the most. Fact: Smoking KILLS.

Extremism comes in many forms...................


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> Not sure though that your logic is sound, when debating the point re: vegetarian and teetotalers. IF you didn't have a choice on where to sit, then a vegetarian / teetotaler sitting next to a carnivore / alcohol drinker, respectively would not cause physical harm. Conversely in the case of "no choice" passive smoking does cause physical harm.
> 
> ..


The logic was tongue in cheek and illustrative of a thin end of wedge scenario. You are right choice is important. Of course smoking kills. so do many other things that are far more important - such as prejudice.

I am signing off on this one now, but I will again point out that it may appear a little odd, if not hypocritical for any one here to grizzle about passive smoking and then drive their car, or any car, through residential areas wher there are chlidren, old folks, non-drivers etc who 'have no choice' but to breathe your exhaust fumes. and let's not forget that car exhaust fumes are the larget polutant on the planet. but i guess that is a different choice for some.....it's the same to me.

Sign seen in Devon pub; NO JOGGING PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SMOKE


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Ah, the old "tongue in cheek". I guess that's what smileys are used for. 

And your point re: exhaust fumes is valid and no less important.


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Gary,
you're right of course that the ACSM is on the other side of the big puddle. Never the less, their research has been acredited this side of said puddle. Also the BACR (British Association for Cardiac Rehabilitation) has, of course, done their own research into the subject and they came to the same conclusion: smoking is the No 1 contributary factor to CHD.
But: to me, it is up to the individual to choose whether or not he/she wants to smoke. I, on the other hand, have the choice to leave the room if I don't want to sit in a smoke filled room (children of smoking parents have no choice unfortunately  )
The one thing I don't really like is if anyone wants to smoke in my house, but if iwe invite friends whom we know are smokers and it is only once in a blue moon I will tolerate it Â


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Wow, you let friends smoke in your house. I make my parents stand in the garden, even when raining. I guess that comes from being a child of smokers and having kids of my own. I even make my parents smoke in another room of their own house if I bring my kids around (or I won't bring them again).


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

This is a conversation that my eldest daughter (aged 5) had with my mum the other day.

Daughter: "Nanny, people smell bad when they smoke"
Mum: "I know"
Daughter: "Do you know you can die if you smoke"
Mum: "Yes"
Daughter: "So why do you do it?"
Mum: "Because I can't stop"
Daughter: "I don't want you to die Nanny"
Mum: "But I can't stop"


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

nuTTs,
it's only once per year or once every other year that anyone smokes in our house; and it didn't happen since ~ 3 years or so. Although I hate smoke and smoking (as you might have guessed) my point was: if I invite someone whom I know to be a smoker then, consequently, I should be prepared to tollerate him having a coffin nail 
Congrats to your daughter being so good about the subject


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## Ruffles (May 6, 2002)

NuTTs

I would say that your little cherub has a problem with death generally which is probably another serious taboo subject in British culture.

The fact is that nanny (bless her) will die anyway as are all of us and even though it's possible that it will be from a smoking related disease it's very far from certain. Maybe the stress of being turned into a pariah in her own home will probably see her off rather sooner than you'd all like her to go.

She might even get mowed down by someone in a TT.

I remember the regular news items about that really old French woman - 124 or something like that. She was alive when Van Gogh was painting and he came into her shop in France to buy provisions and she remembers him as a taciturn and very rude man.

She gave up smoking at 104 and then took it up again at 110. I think she was still riding a bicycle too at past the 100 mark.

Well... she didn't die of boredom.


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

...and still no-one has highlighted any pleasures to be gained from smoking. :


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## doug (May 9, 2002)

From todays Daily Record. Second - hand tobacco smoke definately does cause lung cancer, experts said yesterday. And " half of all persistent cigarette smokers are eventually killed by a tobacco-related disease".
Twenty-nine experts from the International Agency for Research on Cancer, which is part of the World Health Organisation, looked at all significant published evidence relating to cancer and smoking, both active and passive.
The group, from 12 countries, found typical levels of passive exposure are shown to cause lung cancer among some who have never smoked.
They said smokers have an increased risk of cancers of the uterus, cervix, liver and kidneys.
And non-smokers exposed to passive smoking face an extra 20-30 % chance of developing the disease.
Sir Richard Doll, one of the experts said:" Environmental tobacco smoke that people experience at work or at home is definately a cause of lung cancer. "That has been discussed for a long time but this is the first time a group of independent scientists have reviewed all the evidence and said there is no question it is a cause of lung cancer."
Sir Richard said the report should influence policies around the globe and could see a UK ban on smoking in the workplace.
Tobacco accounts for millions of cancer deaths each year, and is the largest cause of preventable cancers.
The experts found half of tobacco-related deaths for smokers occur in middle age - meaning they lose an average 20-25 years of non-smoker life expectancy.
But lung disease and strokes caused by smoking bring more early deaths than cancer.
Cigars and pipes increase risk for cancer of lung, head and neck. :'(


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> ...and still no-one has highlighted any pleasures to be gained from smoking. :


As an ex-smoker i can vividly recall the threefold pleasure zones for a smoke:

1. post shag
2. post dinner 
3. with that first pint.

any more anyone?

Oh, there is one trick I love for the anti-smokers. Sit in a non smoking area anywhere, but a pub, restaurant or theatre is best - or anywhere in California cos those anal suckers always bite.

anyway whilst in conversation with someone, reach for a tab and put it in your mouth. hold lighter, but don't light it. If you like roll ups, make a big ritual thing about rolling one. Carry on talking whilst threatening to lfire it up. Mark my words. Soon, very soon, some self righteous patronising puffed up twat (they may possibly be sporting a beard and fleece combo if in UK)WILL come over and say, 'excuse me buuut this iiiiss a no smoking area.' to which you reply, 'Thank you. I am aware of that but i am not actually smoking. Now please go away and do not interupt me.'

It always gets results and keeps the non smokers on edge.

If only the antis could turn their attentions to junk food and boycott Mcdonalds. That would be a real service not to have to keep looking at fat ugly children.

Any takers/


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

You're still not answering the question.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

And you are still being deliberately obtuse.


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Not really am I? In fairness, I'm seeking the answer to a question that you are failing to give.

You used to enjoy smoking after sex - why?

You used to enjoy smoking after a meal - why?

You used to enjoy smoking with that first pint - why?

Being obtuse Gary is being deliberately thick, whereas all I'm trying to do is get smokers to tell me what satisfaction they get from smoking.


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## A3DFU (May 7, 2002)

Gary,
perhaps Â I can help: nicotine is a mild halucinating drug and, as such, works on the nervous system. Does that answer your question?


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Thank you AF DFU.

That puts it in language which should be easily assimilated. It is a bit like asking someone why chocolate tastes good -all you will get is adjectives......or likethat persistant child who asks 'why' all the time.

Perhaps one to be, or have been (as I was) a smoker, to appreciate or understand the pleasures?

Give me a back brain stimualtor 

Anyway Widget, what is you favorite tipple and exactly why do you like it? Or your fav food? Try it and do be clear with your answer or 'but why' be be retorted. ;D


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Hi Gary

I could answer your questions quite easily.

But surely you can see where I'm coming from. I didn't realise it was such a tricky question.

Let me try a different angle then. Why did you give up?

Let me guess: the benefits of not smoking far outweigh the benefits (if any) of smoking, yeah?


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## garvin (May 7, 2002)

Gary obviously gave up so he could sit in non-smoking areas deliberately irritating all the other non-smokers for some wierd pleasure kick


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## ccc (May 7, 2002)

As an ex-smoker, here's my two pen'orth.

What did I like about smoking? The immediate buzz and tingle of the first couple of ciggies of the day, which seemed to bring me alive (!) and/or to relieve stress, then later in the day to satisfy a craving, even if sometimes the cigarettes tasted awful.

Why did I give up? Cost - I could bury my head in the sand over the health issues, but the money flying out of my purse to buy the **** and on constant redecorating of discoloured walls and ceilings could not be ignored. Also, when I hadn't had a ciggie for a few hours, I started to become aware that I, my clothes, my house, the car... smelt of stale smoke. Not nice.

I still think of myself as an ex-smoker, not a non-smoker. Just now and again, I smell a match being struck and the first draw of (fresh) smoke from a ciggie, and I get a flashback to how good the buzz could be. Hey ho.

Different addiction now. (Stands up.) "My name's Christine and I'm a chocoholic."


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

ccc,

I hope you haven't lost your shape with your new addiction!!

I have seen so many ex smokers gaining weight when stop smoking! I don't understand this!


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## ccc (May 7, 2002)

Nicotine, and/or some of the other ingredients in cigarettes, suppress the appetite (hence a fair number of models smoke) - it's not just munching on something every time you fancy a ciggie!

The weight I did put on (I gave up a few years ago) was soon lost again, as I found my energy levels increased after a while of not smoking. A few months of tight waistbands were worth it!!


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2002)

plus at almost Â£5 a pack, thats one serious dent in your pocket.

Try this, everytiem you would normally buy a pack of ciggies, put the money aside.

You'll be amazed what you can buy for your TT within a couple of months


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

ccc,

So do you think that if I start smoking I can become a model too???


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## ccc (May 7, 2002)

Vlastan - a model what? ;D ;D


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## vlastan (May 6, 2002)

CCC,

Whatever model you were referring in your previous post!!


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

How many of you out there own the first Zero 7 album 'Simple Things'?

The lass who sings on tracks 3 and 7 is an australian called Sia Furler. Where's this going?

She has a solo album out called 'Healing is Difficult' - highly recommend it - Anyhow, track 3 has the following lyrics -

Don't ask me why I smoke
I don't know
But I drink to get drunk

What I'm getting at is that most of you smokers smoke because you just do. You don't really know why but you are convinced you enjoy it.

I'm guessing 95% want to give up but can't be arsed and are prepared to just carry on.

Correct me if I'm wrong but smoking isn't really that enjoyable is it?

If you had any will power you'd give up, correct?


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2002)

Widget: I've got to hand it to you, I was in on the early stages of this thread and I've just come back to see what was going on and your still battling on with your point, fair play to you mate. I still do not agree with a lot you are saying but I respect your persistance in your beliefs.

Why do people smoke? I think the majority of smokers (me included) started young because it was the thing to do to look grown up, once your grown up and realise the damage your doing to yourself it becomes so difficult to give up because of the very adictive nature of smoking. Some people can give up very eaily and others find it virtualy impossible.

The inbetween years of starting and wanting to give up is when you most enjoy smoking, difficult to explain to a person who has never smoked but one example which you will probably not get is say; to people talking, both are smokers, one has a major problem which is worrying him/her, the other person might say "Lets share a smoke and talk about it". Smoking has then become a freindship thing.

Now I know that you could say (and probably will ) that two non smokers could have the same affect but without introducing a cigarette into the situation but I am trying to answer your question as to why people smoke, there are many reasons but I think that after the initial "I'm going to smoke because I think it looks cool" stage, smoking then becomes a comfort to that person, in fact it does just the opposite but you feel comfortable and relaxed. This is the effect cigarettes have. To stop smoking you have to convince yourself that you do not need this 'prop' in your life and that you can manage better without it.

That my friend is the MOST difficult bit.

I hope that I may have answered some of your questions about why people smoke but looking at the number of postings to this one thread, I doubt it.

Oh and by the way - to answer your very first post on this thread - we know we fucking stink but we don't give a shit ;D

Graham


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## Widget (May 7, 2002)

Cheers Graham

My brother once said to me that sometimes he wished he smoked so rather than just relaxing on the beach in the sunshine, he could relax on the beach in the sunshine with a cigarette. A cigarette, in this case, being company.

I can whole heartedly understand the 'having a team smoke' scenario, just like enjoying fine wine/food with somebody else.

I still recommend that album.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

> Hi Gary
> 
> I could answer your questions quite easily.
> 
> ...


I gave up due to having five of my ribs thrust through my lungs thereby collapsing them. Injuries caused by violent seatbelt decelleration. Accident caused by drunk driver. three of my friends died in the car i was pulled out of. seemed a reasonable time to quit.....sort of changesone perspective on things.


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## jamman (May 6, 2002)

:'( Garyc,horrible thing to happen mate.

This does highlight the difference between the two in excess.

Smoking - You damage yourself and to a far,far lesser extent others (passive).

Drinking - I ran pubs for 6 years until new year and I could tell you the amount of people I knew drink driving was scary not just the 'one more wont harm' young brigade but more often older people who should have known better by experience.You could argue them to a standstill and still I would see them driving home after my shift had finished because 'it's only a couple of miles,What can happen in a couple of miles'. Three real abusers I stopped serving because they were using alcohol as a drug and not for pleasure and then driving home and I couldn't cope with the thought of them hurting someone after drinking in my pub. Two others landlords fell out with me at the police meetings when I raised this. 'What right have I to judge them in this way' and they're spot on,I have no right but I didn't like what I was seeing/hearing happening to these otherwise pleasant people and if it did happen I didn't want it weighing on my mind.

Some months later one of them,Dougie knocked a local council leaders mum over, luckily she was only bruised/battered but what a difference it made, being a small town word got round like wildfire and where once it was tolerated,the opposite occured and people no longer turned a blind eye and stopped the persistant offenders almost overnight.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

As some of you that have read the Employment thread will have gathered, I work as a copywriter in an ad agency and it's my job to ensure that if you make the choice to smoke, you smoke the brand I'm advertising.

I don't have access to all the facts and figures with regard to the drain on the NHS that smokers are, but I can tell you that the UK govt makes around Â£13billion annually from taxing cigarette sales*.

The company I work for pay out ten times more in taxes than they make in profit. Â

This one tobacco company contributes more to some countries, than their entire GDP.

*However, they are losing more and more of this as smuggling becomes an issue and people go abroad to buy their cigarettes. Â As much as Â£4.5 billion at the last estimate.

As for why people smoke? Â I can't give a hard and fast rule. Â In poorer countries, some people smoke because it's a sign of wealth. Â In developed countries, some people smoke because it's a sign of rebellion. Â

As for me, I took up smoking due to peer pressure. Â And like others, became a smoker out of habit, more than anything else. Â I gave up around four years ago, and now am an (anti)social smoker. Â In that if I'm out in a pub, drinking, I might have one, I might not.

Cigarettes give you a buzz - they're not good for calming you down, people who smoke when they're stressed are not relaxing themselves as nicotine is a stimulant, it makes your heart race.

In almost all cases, a person's first cigarette will be awful, but you quickly learn to appreciate the taste. Â

But then in most cases, a person's first drink will be awful too - I couldn't believe the fuss over lager as a kid. Â I thought it tasted vile, yet today I say I actually enjoy lager - which I do, but it's an aquired taste.

If anyone thinks I'm the devil incarnate for selling cigarettes, then you have to remember that in today's market, cigarette companies are probably more ethical than, say, drug companies.

I will be the first to admit however, that in the bad old days, they were very guilty of mis-selling their product and not making people aware of the dangers of smoking - to yourself and to others.

But then if we extend that argument, all cars should come with a health warning too.

Final point - just to address one point made on here - if onlt 25% of the UK population are smokers, shouldn't pubs reflect this and have only 25% of their area as smoking? Â Well, yes and no. Â While 25% of the public may be smokers, I don't know how many pub-goers are smokers. Â Not all the people in the UK go to pubs and therefore, the figures should be adjusted accordingly.


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2002)

70% of the UK population are car drivers. Hence I say lets tarmac 70% of the UK. But to be realistic, just milton keynes, manchester and leeds will do.


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## nutts (May 8, 2002)

Can we swop Leeds for Birmingham ;D


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