# P1297 Check Engine Light ...



## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Hey guys I could use your help:

2004 Audi TT 1.8T 225hp BEA Quattro, 6spd manual & 65k miles

So the car exhibits no symptoms but I have these 4 CELs that I can't get rid of:
-P1297 Pressure Drop between turbo valve and throttle body (Check DV!)
-P0420 Catalytic system efficiency below threshold (running lean)
-P0300 intermittent misfires all cylinders
-P0303 misfire cylinder 3

Here's a list of what I've tried so far:
-Replaced valve cover gasket & spark plugs
-Replaced coil on cylinder #3
-Replaced diverter, N75, and pressure control valves
-Replaced hose from N75 valve to turbo charge air pipe
-Smoke test, nothing found
-Deleted N249 system
-Replaced fuel pressure regulator hose + hose from diverter valve to charge pipe
-Cleaned and aligned throttle body
-Smoke test, nothing found

I'm kind of at my wit's end with this. I think all codes tie back to the first one and that there's an air leak. Like I said the car runs fine but I can't get this CEL to stay away

One more tidbit: The rate at which the CEL comes on varies... If I'm doing city driving it will come on ~50-80kms after clearing it. However if I'm driving more highway it takes much longer, usually 200kms+. Currently at 250kms without the CEL on but I know it'll appear shortly. Also only the catalytic converter CEL appears on my regular OBD scanner but I see the other 3 when I use the VCDS VAG-COM.

Any advice??


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## Charmadize (Jul 14, 2019)

I would only guess at a small leak in the pipe work from the turbo through the intercoolers.
Can you rig up a pressure test through the pipe work to the throttle?
It sounds like you've had a few problems, so hopefully this is just the last one.
Do you still get the misfire error as well? Even though you've replaced the coil?


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Charmadize said:


> I would only guess at a small leak in the pipe work from the turbo through the intercoolers.
> Can you rig up a pressure test through the pipe work to the throttle?
> It sounds like you've had a few problems, so hopefully this is just the last one.
> Do you still get the misfire error as well? Even though you've replaced the coil?


Yes I still get the misfire errors. I've not done a pressure test... honestly not sure how to do that. Could you link me to whatever product you use? I can probably figure out how to do a pressure test from there


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

You are definitely clearing the errors?


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

StuartDB said:


> You are definitely clearing the errors?


Yes I'm clearing the errors with VCDS every time


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

The ross-tech article.

Have you logged the car? The rosstech article is pressure drop between turbo and throttle body... so if you log it, you will see what the desired and actual boost is.... maybe the map sensor is at fault, when I had that error the DV was jammed open?

I assume all the other errors disappeared like the misfire?

Have you checked for splits on the left side (looking at the engine) on the inlet manifold leading up to the brake servo.

I take it there's no hardware hacks like resistors to try and fool the car into higher boost.


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

StuartDB said:


> The ross-tech article.
> 
> Have you logged the car? The rosstech article is pressure drop between turbo and throttle body... so if you log it, you will see what the desired and actual boost is.... maybe the map sensor is at fault, when I had that error the DV was jammed open?
> 
> ...


Sorry I'm a bit of a noob... this article http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.ph ... 297/004759 ?
I'm not sure what you mean by 'logged the car.' Basically I can go in and find whatever code ross tech uses and it will show me boost and also what boost it should have
Haven't replaced the MAP sensor, I could try that.

No, none of the errors disappeared. I always get all 4 errors.

I've looked before for all types of splits/cracks... I'll go look again. And no, no hardware hacks


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Okay so I looked for any cracks on the line from the intake manifold to brake servo, saw nothing

Tried to do a log: using this website https://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/m_blocks/110-119.html
and group #115 (I think that's the correct one to use). Only saw actual pressure value sometimes exceed specified value by 10-20mbar

One thing of note, I logged group #030 for oxygen sensors and it appears sensor #2 is never active... maybe this is my issue?


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

I don't really know the vcds blocks.

But the o2 sensors are bank 1 sensor 1 and bank 1 sensor 2 you don't have a bank 2 as that is v6s


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

StuartDB said:


> I don't really know the vcds blocks.
> 
> But the o2 sensors are bank 1 sensor 1 and bank 1 sensor 2 you don't have a bank 2 as that is v6s


Yeah sorry I meant bank 1 sensor 2... It's never giving the readout "sensor ready"

But I do get "sensor ready" for bank 1 sensor 1


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

I don't think the post cat sensor does anything, mine is coded out for sports / de cat.

Is everything properly plumbed in?

Underneath the inlet manifold there's the two 4mm connectors for FPR and N249 (or straight to DV if N249 deleted) on the left and in the centre there's a bigger (maybe 6mm) connector which connects to the PCV valve.

I think if you run blocks 1, 31 and 32? You can view long term and short term fuel trims. And then if you clear all errors (even if there are none)? That will reset the fuel trims. If there's an air leak it will be easy to tell.


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## David C (Apr 15, 2013)

Don't discount the "P0420 Catalytic system efficiency below threshold" error being the Cat itself failing.

I got my V6 in 2013 and have been getting "16804 - Catalyst System; Bank 1 P0420 - 001 - Efficiency Below Threshold" errors intermittently, mainly if driven gently/cruising.

At the end of 2019 I purchased a Scorpion system and Lucifer SportsCats, with the intension of fitting them after its Feb 2020 MOT... but with the :roll: situation in 2020 I only got round to fitting them last Friday.
When we got the old Cat off we could see a hole down the centre of the Bank 1 Cat........! 










Explains why it only just got through the last few MOT emissions tests too... :lol:


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

StuartDB said:


> I don't think the post cat sensor does anything, mine is coded out for sports / de cat.
> 
> Is everything properly plumbed in?
> 
> ...


Hmmm so no sense in buying a new O2 sensor?

Yeah I just deleted the N249 (thought maybe there was a leak in there) and plumbed in my own lines from manifold to DV and manifold to FPR. Had the codes both before and after doing that. I've seen the PCV connector but can try to look at it more thoroughly. I'll try to look at blocks 1, 31, and 32 tonight after work


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

David C said:


> Don't discount the "P0420 Catalytic system efficiency below threshold" error being the Cat itself failing.
> 
> I got my V6 in 2013 and have been getting "16804 - Catalyst System; Bank 1 P0420 - 001 - Efficiency Below Threshold" errors intermittently, mainly if driven gently/cruising.
> 
> ...


Ouch. I hope that's not my issue, sounds expensive. I also don't get why that would cause misfires too, though


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## David C (Apr 15, 2013)

doodlestj said:


> David C said:
> 
> 
> > Don't discount the "P0420 Catalytic system efficiency below threshold" error being the Cat itself failing.
> ...


You could have (probably have) several unrelated issues.


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## Charmadize (Jul 14, 2019)

doodlestj said:


> Charmadize said:
> 
> 
> > I would only guess at a small leak in the pipe work from the turbo through the intercoolers.
> ...


Sorry, didn't check in yesterday. There is no kit for this, you will have to Jerry-rig/Heath Robinson something together to test the circuit.

Before I start, you might not want to progress with this because it is a real arse!

First stage is to pressure test. You will need to disconnect the pipe from the turbo and the inlet. Then you will need two solid circular items and a jubilee clips to block off the ends you have disconnected. I have used bearing press kit for this before, which worked well. Then use one of the off take pipes for the valves, and plumb in the valve from a compressor ideally. If you haven't got one of those, you can use a foot pump. Clamp the pump valve into the off-take using another piece of rubber tubing.

Pump a load of air in and leave it for a bit. If the pressure doesn't drop, there isn't a leak.
If it does drop, then you are into the realms of taking the air circuit out and test each component in water and compressed air in a similar way.

Sorry, it isn't a straightforward solution.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

I still don't understand about the errors not disappearing?

Have you cleared them with the engine off and made sure they are not there. And they only come back after a few minutes running?

Did you check the fuel trim blocks 31 and 32 I thing sort term and long term..

The coil wiring can go brittle and / or dodgy earth connectors on cam cover..


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

StuartDB said:


> I don't think the post cat sensor does anything, mine is coded out for sports / de cat.
> 
> Is everything properly plumbed in?
> 
> ...


Running blocks 1, 31, and 32 it seems my lambda stays pretty close to 1. Not sure how to view long or short term fuel trim

Group 32 I don't really understand... it says my bank 1 sensor 1 idle is about 2.6% and my bank 1 sensor 1 partial load is -7%... no idea what to make of these #s

Attached the log for those blocks


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

StuartDB said:


> I still don't understand about the errors not disappearing?
> 
> Have you cleared them with the engine off and made sure they are not there. And they only come back after a few minutes running?
> 
> ...


I clear them and then they come back but not for some time... sometimes after 40kms of driving, sometimes up to 250kms later


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

I had a cheap coil pack and it vibrated up the tube leading to an occasional misfire.. I also bought some bkr7s from ebay and one of them cylinder 1 failed, it would only miss like a lul if hot and ~5500rpm..

If its intermittent is it possibly wiring? Or maybe oil getting into the spark plug hole? From the centre cam gasket..


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

StuartDB said:


> I had a cheap coil pack and it vibrated up the tube leading to an occasional misfire.. I also bought some bkr7s from ebay and one of them cylinder 1 failed, it would only miss like a lul if hot and ~5500rpm..
> 
> If its intermittent is it possibly wiring? Or maybe oil getting into the spark plug hole? From the centre cam gasket..


Could be wiring. Tracing that back is going to be a bitch.

I saw there was a bunch of oil on the spark plug so I replaced the valve cover gasket... haven't checked since I did that but I assumed that fixed it

Just replaced the downstream O2 sensor :/. If the code comes back I'll order some new PCV pipes and an intake manifold gasket and try replacing that. Unfortunately shipping takes a long time


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Still getting the codes... going to take it apart a bit and order new PCV hoses today. Pretty hard to find online... if you have any recommendations on places to shop for them I'll take any advice.

Will probably replace the intake manifold gasket while I'm at it


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

doodlestj said:


> StuartDB said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think the post cat sensor does anything, mine is coded out for sports / de cat.
> ...


Sorry it is 32 and 33 not 31 and 32






Essentially, if you are leaking air you will get fuel trims out side the target range...

There are some other linked videos, essentially the goal is 0%, long term fuel trims are adaptions based on how much more or less fuel is required to correct for unmetered air (a leak) as idle is always at vacuum. But there are acceptable settings. Like maybe 4% for long term and -10 to +10 for short term. If you have -2.6 in LT and clear all errors (even if none) fuel trims are reset and then looking at ST FT your short term might be -10,+7,'-10,+7.... etc then after a while the LTFT might be -1 then your STFT should be -9,+8,-9,+8... etc. Short Term always go less, more,less,more but its ideal to get the gap between the numbers smaller..

There's also a Map table called FKVVS which stores a profile based on Audi Stock Injectors, but that sometimes needs adjusting... there's a tool you can get to tell you the best new values, it's based on the throttle position (maybe load?) and revs, and you drive around trying to cover as many rpm, TP combinations and it will show you the adjustments for your table..


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

StuartDB said:


> doodlestj said:
> 
> 
> > StuartDB said:
> ...


Thank you! This helped a lot.

So I'll update as this progresses but my LT FT seems to be around +2%... not enough to throw a code. ST FT hovers around +/- 2%. So nothing crazy there

HOWEVER the good news is that I was spraying starter fluid around the engine bay and measuring ST FT while doing so. I found spraying it right on the PCV caused a spike to around -20% ST FT. So I ordered some parts to replace the PCV hoses. Supposed to ship here by Friday, surprising how fast that is

Also, the code for the pressure drop between turbo & throttle body registers almost immediately after a reset. The other 3 can take a while to materialize

Thanks again for the help Stuart, I'll update you as I go. Hopefully will replace all PCV stuff this weekend and the intake manifold gasket while I'm at it. Was thinking perhaps since the LT FT seems normal that maybe my fuel injectors are just not dumping enough fuel? Or the cat is bad? I'll wait until after replacing the PCV to assess


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## rawlins (Nov 17, 2016)

Do you have access to an air compressor?

I have a 3D printed boost test adapter you are welcome to borrow to do a proper pressure test.

It'll probably work with a decent bike pump or foot pump too.

Drop me a DM.


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

rawlins said:


> Do you have access to an air compressor?
> 
> I have a 3D printed boost test adapter you are welcome to borrow to do a proper pressure test.
> 
> ...


Hey tried to direct message but it won't let me because I'm too new to the forum.

Anyway, I do have an air compressor and also a 3D printer. If you link me to an STL I can print it and hopefully figure it out from there


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Well this weekend I took my intake manifold off. Replaced all PCV hoses (where I thought there might be an air leak) and the intake manifold gasket

Still have the same check engine lights:

-P1297 Pressure Drop between turbo valve and throttle body (Check DV!)
-P0300 intermittent misfires all cylinders
-P0303 misfire cylinder 3

EXCEPT this code: -P0420 Catalytic system efficiency below threshold (running lean)

Has changed to this code1136 Fuel Trim Bank 1 (add) system too lean

And now my LT FT is more like 6.4%... Damn it

Not sure what to do now. Going to do some more spraying around. Maybe replace the fuel injectors?


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

In other news my Rosstech vc scope seems to not work anymore. Not sure why. The graph function displays the value and individual gauges work but the vc scope won't plot them along the screen of the graph as time goes on


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

it sounds like it is sucking in unmetered air or not giving enough fuel, you obviously disturbed the injector rail, to remove the inlet to get to the PCV stuff. (did you break the dip stick tube when you did that?)
- Have you checked the FPR on the end of the fuel rail to see if it is blocked?

the fact you have worsened this whilst changing / disturbing stuff is probably a good sign as you are around the right area - have you check the S bend thing on the end of the inlet manifold (left side if looking at a 225)


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## Charmadize (Jul 14, 2019)

As you've replaced a lot of the intake (air) system, then it points now at the fuelling, maybe?

Before we go down that route, the cross member that joins the intercoolers get very rusty abs on mine, I was worried that it was close to rusting through so I replaced it.

If that is ok, then the misfires could be from lack of fuel in the chamber. The cat issues could be because the firing is so lean, due to lack of fuel. So, I think next you need to check the fuelling and the injectors. Have you looked at these already?


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Thanks for the replies gents. When I was replacing the PCV system I think one of the other hoses just came a little loose and that was the big leak. Fixed that but still getting all the codes

When I spray starter fluid around the engine bay I can get ST FT to drop to like -7%... nothing as crazy as it was before. I will look at the FPR to see if it's clogged

And is there any way for me to tell if my fuel injectors are bad before just buying new ones? I don't see any measurement blocks that show me a volume of fuel injected


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Fuel pressure regulator looks clean so far as I can tell

One thing of note - while trying to diagnose all this I deleted the N249 system. As a result of that I had to route a hose off the secondary air injection to the intake manifold so I teed it off to the hose that goes from the manifold to the FPR... I read to do that online. I don't think that's my problem because I had the codes before and after doing that

Any other ideas on where to route the secondary air injection hose to? When I just capped it off I got a separate, unrelated code so that doesn't work.


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Measured the resistance of all the fuel injectors.. all were 12.5 ohms, right on spec

Took hose off the FPR while engine was running, it's definitely got suction. No fuel dripping out of FPR

Could be a leaking o-ring at the fuel injector? I need to get a fuel pressure gauge and check that


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

You could replace the injector o-rings they are only a few quid. Just try to avoid any dirt falling into the manifold.


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Got a fuel pressure tester, here are the results:

Turned the key to 'on' but no ignition. Fuel pressure held right at 40 PSI. I let it sit for 10 minutes and no drop.

With ignition on fuel pressure was about 35 PSI. Held that at any steady RPM. And if I blipped the throttle the fuel pressure would blip accordingly

To test if the fuel injector O-rings were leaking was 10 minutes enough time? Or should I let it sit longer?


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

One more thing - I noticed right after I clear the codes my short term fuel trim is around +25% and I get a lot of misfires on cylinder 3 and 4. After maybe 3 minutes the short term fuel trim winds down to +/- 1% and long term fuel trim is maybe around +3%. Is this normal?


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

I decided to check how it looked on a cold engine. So I cleared the codes then started the engine-

ST FT slowly climbed to +25%. Pretty much as soon as the engine was fully warmed up it dropped to around 0%. I am getting misfires much more frequently than I was a couple of weeks ago... now I'm sometimes getting P0304 as well for a misfire in cylinder 4.

No idea what's going on but it seems to have gotten worse. Once I get a chance I need to tear everything down again


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Bought a fuel pressure tester to do a leak down test... nothing found. Fuel pressure was good both with car off and on. Additionally tested the fuel pressure regulator which was good and the resistance of the injectors, also good

I was trying to test the MAF by looking at my g/s when redlining... I only reached about 130g/s and I'm pretty sure it should be 180g/s for my 225hp TT. Going to try replacing the MAF

One more thing - It's been a while since I've cleared codes. My LT FT values are as follows: +5% @ idle and -7% under partial load. Still have the same codes I've always had


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

So after replacing the MAF I dropped two of the codes! Progress!

Now here's what's left:

-P1297 Pressure Drop between turbo valve and throttle body (Check DV!)
-P0420 Catalytic system efficiency below threshold (running lean)

Going to try the smoke test again. If that doesn't work I'd like to find a way to test/check the DV even though it's basically brand new. And if neither of those work then I suppose I'll replace the catalytic converter


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## vladthetodge (May 14, 2021)

I read somewhere on t'internet that dv being wrong way round can cause p1297 code. Maybe worth a double check?
Hope you get this sorted soon man.


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

vladthetodge said:


> I read somewhere on t'internet that dv being wrong way round can cause p1297 code. Maybe worth a double check?
> Hope you get this sorted soon man.


Pretty sure i've got it plumbed in right. Line from the top of DV to the intake manifold. Opposite that (bottom of DV) goes right into the air intake, just past the MAF. And perpendicular from that the last opening connects to the charge pipe


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

I doubt it's orientation of the stock DV, we've all played with that sort of thing and never had issues.. the only DV that actually cares is the rubbish Forge DV Splitter (DVSPLITR) which 'must be run backwards' otherwise it might break... that sounds ridiculous for a £175 component.... "if it is not quite right it will break" <-- oh come on


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

I'm pretty much at my wit's end. I'm smoking it to the point where I have to keep a lot of pressure on the smoke nozzle to hold it in place so it doesn't blow right out. Eventually some smoke will make its way through the secondary air injection into the air box and come out there. No smoke anywhere else

Tested the DV (both new and old) no issues. I tested the fuel pressure before and it was fine but I guess I'll test again just to be sure. Really have no clue what could cause it.

I suppose the P0420 lean code could just be that my cat is bad. But that still wouldn't explain the P1297 pressure drop between turbo and throttle code


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Can you upload pictures of the pipe work?

Could it be the incorrect or a faulty map sensor? So the maf is saying 1890mbar and the map sensor only seeing 1540mbar? 

Someone in here accidently fitted a 2.5bar map sensor so was getting overboost errors, if you have a 4bar map sensor without the map updates it's going to read less..

Have you got the capability to log the specified and actual boost? It's like a fiver for a cable


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

First of all Stuart, thank you for your continued help

Here are a bunch of pictures. Let me know if you need any more specific pictures

So using the measuring blocks I can see specified and actual boost. Both were ambient air pressure, 990mbar. I was at idle but revving the throttle. I will try to hook my laptop up on my drive to work tomorrow to test it. You can see in my picture of the measuring blocks it was block # 115. I cannot seem to find a way to measure pressure at the MAF... I can only read airflow in g/s there not mbar. So I know pressure at the MAP is 990mbar but don't know what it is at the turbo

I also included a picture of the MAP. It's one thing I haven't replaced so maybe it's worth a shot. Like I said I'll get a better run of it and graph it to show you tomorrow. Thanks again


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

You can't log boost revving on a driveway, it's load based - so either a road or dyno.. 

Obviously, be careful with your laptop on the passenger seat, I got quite good at it.. but have done it about 200 times over the years...

The map sensor is on a hard pipe down near the battery.. . I don't advise just to changing it, as often one or both the bolts may break the inserted thread in the hard plastic and just spin.. try and get the part number first and the logging.


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

As above, i went to fit a new MAP sensor a couple of weeks back and the bolt insert just spun. Bought a used pipe from ebay and one of the inserts had spun in that so i removed it then bonded it back in. Parts can go on next year now when weather improves.


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

So see the attached picture from my drive into work

Pink = boost pressure before throttle valve
White = boost pressure actual
Yellow = boost pressure specified

sorry I didn’t get pictures of the Y axis to see the values. I’ll do it again on my way home

by the way, -24C here lol


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Okay sorry for the color changes but hopefully these pictures do it justice:

White = boost pressure before throttle valve
Blue = boost pressure actual
Red = boost pressure specified

So the boost pressure never even really went past 1200mbar, even pushing the RPMs to 5000 in 2nd gear. Also the "boost pressure specified" almost never changes from 990mbar. Why is that? At one point when merging onto the highway it finally jumped up away from 990 but was still a good 1-200 mbar below the "boost pressure actual"


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Okay so here's my drive to work again but in an easier to read excel file and I did a couple more hard pulls on the throttle

As far as I can tell with my newbie eyes the number seem fine. The boost pressure specified seems to always be slightly lower than the boost pressure actual. The N75 waste gate duty cycle seems to operate properly and correspond to when I let off the throttle. Still can't figure out how / what measuring block reads off the boost pressure at the turbo.. I get it at the intake and at the throttle body but not the turbo


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

There is no boost pressure sensor at the turbo, just the MAP in the pipe before the TB


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

davebowk said:


> There is no boost pressure sensor at the turbo, just the MAP in the pipe before the TB


Hmmmm... then how does the car know to indicate this CEL: P1297 Pressure Drop between turbo valve and throttle body?


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## davebowk (Aug 16, 2019)

From the MAP sensor that is between the turbo and TB. A leak any where on the charge pipe side can throw that code.

Check all the pipes and the solenoid for the N249 kit if you still have it fitted.


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

That log is awful - vcds logging is utter rubbish - there's only about 10 lines of use in 8 pages, and even those are 1.2 seconds apart?

can you try and just get to a nice straight clear road, get into 3rd at about 1500rpm click start and floor it to 6K + then stop logging and upload the XLS. - maybe look at "visualme7logger" it needs a little bit of setting up (ECU Profile) but you can log all the sensors concurrently and 20 samples a second, and create charts from the resultant files in ecuplot. 

If you clear the fault and do the above (single logging run) - does the error re-appear? or does it appear some other time randomly? the "actual" should follow the specified apart from when the boost is building it might overshoot a tiny bit, then be brought back in line (with stock map and working actuator and n75)

is your car supposed to be stock? as you have load up to 175%? a stock map doesn't go that high.


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

StuartDB said:


> That log is awful - vcds logging is utter rubbish - there's only about 10 lines of use in 8 pages, and even those are 1.2 seconds apart?
> 
> can you try and just get to a nice straight clear road, get into 3rd at about 1500rpm click start and floor it to 6K + then stop logging and upload the XLS. - maybe look at "visualme7logger" it needs a little bit of setting up (ECU Profile) but you can log all the sensors concurrently and 20 samples a second, and create charts from the resultant files in ecuplot.
> 
> ...


I will try to do a quick, straight log run like you mentioned. It's just a bit sketchy to be doing that now that all of the roads are iced over. Got a bunch of snow today as it finally warmed up to -6C

Also, good catch that the load went that high. As far as I knew it was stock. I think the previous owner gave me a tiny reprogrammer but it has to be plugged into the OBD2 to work...


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Okay so here is that log using VCDS. If I clear the fault and do a run the error does not reappear, it reappears sometime later, usually at around 80km of driving but sometimes it will take as long as 200kms

So I see the load % goes as high as 160. You said that's not normal for stock? So maybe my engine has a tune and the MAP isn't set for the tune? But the boost values seem normal-ish


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

I did notice the intake temperature went to like minus 3 or 4 degrees centigrade maybe that interferes with the load % ?


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

StuartDB said:


> I did notice the intake temperature went to like minus 3 or 4 degrees centigrade maybe that interferes with the load % ?


In that log the lowest intake temp I see is +3. It was probably -7C outside when I did the log. So is it because I'm at sea level with such cold air I can get higher loads because lots of oxygen? But I also had the same in the summer when it was 20C

I don't know. I can't make heads or tails of this. I'm thinking to just buy a new MAP just because I'm totally lost and have no clue what to do. Or maybe I'll test the fuel pressure again :/


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

If you are talking about getting a new map? By a real tuner, they might highlight an issue in pre-tune checkup. 

But if it was me and the car wasn't behaving as expected, I wouldn't blindly put on a new map as it will exacerbate any fault. I would download the map and look to see if it is not stock. Then put a stock map on and use Visual Me7logger to get a real log of value, then you know what the load, boost, timing, injector duty cycle, waste gate duty cycle, knock detection etc should be and hopefully identify any issues. With an Me7logger log file you will see 200 readings from like 30 sensors for a 10 second period... 

If you have a real vagcom lead I think they can run in dumb kkl mode or just get a blue kkl lead from China for a fiver.. that can be used to read / write ecu files using NEFMOTO (I don't use that - i use MPPS, which is a different lead) and are used in vcdslite and used with Me7logger.


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## Bed_TT (Oct 10, 2021)

Hello, I’m not sure if you have rectified the cause for the eml coming on yet? But from what you said in the first post about having no signs of any engine or power issues, then I would seriously take a close look at the exhaust pipe where the it joins just after the cats onto the centre section. I had the exact same issue. My eml came on but I had no problems what so ever mechanically nor was the performance effected. After several hours of trying to get help from other members as well as having my local indi inspect all over the engine there was literally no signs to what was causing the problem. Then I had it in the ramps looking at something else and that’s when I noticed the smallest slight crack in the exhaust pipe. I got some exhaust paste and sealed it reset the eml codes and bingo……… Eml no 
more. I’m not saying you have the same issue but don’t overlook that even the smallest of cracks in the exhaust system can turn your eml on. Hope this helps, good luck


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

StuartDB said:


> If you are talking about getting a new map? By a real tuner, they might highlight an issue in pre-tune checkup.
> 
> But if it was me and the car wasn't behaving as expected, I wouldn't blindly put on a new map as it will exacerbate any fault. I would download the map and look to see if it is not stock. Then put a stock map on and use Visual Me7logger to get a real log of value, then you know what the load, boost, timing, injector duty cycle, waste gate duty cycle, knock detection etc should be and hopefully identify any issues. With an Me7logger log file you will see 200 readings from like 30 sensors for a 10 second period...
> 
> If you have a real vagcom lead I think they can run in dumb kkl mode or just get a blue kkl lead from China for a fiver.. that can be used to read / write ecu files using NEFMOTO (I don't use that - i use MPPS, which is a different lead) and are used in vcdslite and used with Me7logger.


So how exactly can I download the map and put a stock map on? By buying a tuner? If so can you recommend me one
Then after that I can try to use the visualme7logger you talked about

I do have a real VAGCOM, no idea what dumb kkl is. Not sure what NEFMOTO or MPPS are either... so I should be able to use the VAGCOM to read ECU files i.e. the map? All over my head. I'll plug in that plug in tuner just for shits to see how it goes


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Bed_TT said:


> Hello, I’m not sure if you have rectified the cause for the eml coming on yet? But from what you said in the first post about having no signs of any engine or power issues, then I would seriously take a close look at the exhaust pipe where the it joins just after the cats onto the centre section. I had the exact same issue. My eml came on but I had no problems what so ever mechanically nor was the performance effected. After several hours of trying to get help from other members as well as having my local indi inspect all over the engine there was literally no signs to what was causing the problem. Then I had it in the ramps looking at something else and that’s when I noticed the smallest slight crack in the exhaust pipe. I got some exhaust paste and sealed it reset the eml codes and bingo……… Eml no
> more. I’m not saying you have the same issue but don’t overlook that even the smallest of cracks in the exhaust system can turn your eml on. Hope this helps, good luck



So I went under there and couldn't notice any cracks in the exhaust. However, I did notice this coupling clamp (see pictures). And though I couldn't see a leak, when I turned the car on I could hear, feel, and smell exhaust coming out the side of it.

So a question - why is this clamp here, was something there originally and removed?
And a follow up - this exhaust leak is past the last O2 sensor... so am I correct to say this can't be causing the CEL?


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## Bed_TT (Oct 10, 2021)

doodlestj said:


> So I went under there and couldn't notice any cracks in the exhaust. However, I did notice this coupling clamp (see pictures). And though I couldn't see a leak, when I turned the car on I could hear, feel, and smell exhaust coming out the side of it.
> 
> So a question - why is this clamp here, was something there originally and removed?
> And a follow up - this exhaust leak is past the last O2 sensor... so am I correct to say this can't be causing the CEL?


that’s exactly where mine was leaking from however my exhaust clamp was different from your one. So I’m guessing that maybe at some point yours has been replaced. I know what your saying about the leak be past the O2 sensors therefore thinking it would effect it. But because this was the issue with mine I can only imagine it’s because it’s losing pressure therefore giving a faulty reading?


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

doodlestj said:


> So I went under there and couldn't notice any cracks in the exhaust. However, I did notice this coupling clamp (see pictures). And though I couldn't see a leak, when I turned the car on I could hear, feel, and smell exhaust coming out the side of it.
> 
> So a question - why is this clamp here, was something there originally and removed?
> And a follow up - this exhaust leak is past the last O2 sensor... so am I correct to say this can't be causing the CEL?


The sleeve joins the cat pipe to the cat back, you might find the bolts snap trying to undo them, it looks like it's already been done up really tight, as the clamps are already closed. I changed the bolts for new stainless coach bolts when I needed to remove it. It's quite a clever sort of multi layer sleeve which tightens evenly, but they can break up.. you could try removing and refitting with some decent silicon exhaust sealant. 

BTW no you cannot read or write maps with vagcom... but it takes some research to get the right software tools and cables...


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Well gents that didn't work. Used JB weld and patched the exhaust leak. Checked to make sure it wasn't leaking and cleared codes... twice. Codes still come back on

I guess it's time to try to download the map and stuff like Stuart suggested. This is all very new to me

Would you recommend this guide? Nefmoto Getting Started Guide

Also what is a Motronic 7 ECU? A new ECU I'd have to buy? The alternative seems wild... using gator clips to connect the different pins in the OBD plug?


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

What car do you have?

If it is a BAM then you can download the MAP using Nefmoto and a blue KKL lead - I don't use this, I use MPPS but that's just what I had already bought and used.. lots of people use Nefmoto (it is a well supported and maintained product, using a readily available generic cable)


You don't need to jump pins on ECUs etc... there are instances in some cars (like my S3) where the k-line signal is interfered with by the dash.. in my opinion, if you cannot do the basic stuff with a simple cable plugged into the ODB port in the car and USB port in a laptop.. (after checking leads and settings) then it might be the car...


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

I have a BEA engine. 225hp Quattro ‘04. Think I still just need NEFMOTO and the dumb KKL?


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Well I'm still waiting for the KKL cable to ship. Estimated another 1-2weeks 

In the meantime I decided to test my fuel pressure again. Hovers right at 36 @ idle. Jumps to 43 when you disconnect the FPR vacuum hose. The only weird thing is that when you turn the engine off the fuel pressure doesn't drop... my manual says after 10 minutes it should drop to 22PSI but after 10minutes mine hasn't dropped at all. Don't think this is an issue, though


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## gedu (Sep 2, 2021)

You read manual incorrectly...

Factory specifies that if it drops to 22PSI after 10 minutes it's ok, normally it shouldn't drop at all. Why? There is a one way valve in pressure line that should hold pressure easily for weeks.


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

I got the KKL cable a few days ago but have yet to be able to read the ECU. Driver issue... 

Posted here but to no avail First Time NEFMOTO User Driver Issue


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

After some research I guess the cable I bought had the wrong driver. Ordered a new one.

One other thing I wanted to bring up - the car takes longer to turn over when my fuel is low and it's been sitting for a few hours. Maybe a fuel pump issue? Since I tested my fuel pressure and it was fine. I suppose I should inspect the fuel pump and lines


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

I got everything working with the new cable! So I got all the way through the ME7CHECK part and all is fine. So I have this .bin file that is a read of my ECU... how do I actually read/interpret this? I want to see if my car already has a tune

Unfortunately it won't allow me to attach the .bin file to this post


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Download tunerpro and a decent BAM xdf.

I assume your bin file is 1024 KB.. if it is smaller, it will be an encrypted map say from Revo.

I thought you could still upload zip files to the forum? If you manage to zip and upload your bin, I'll tell you if it's been mapped. Assuming it's a BAM or BFV


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

StuartDB said:


> Download tunerpro and a decent BAM xdf.
> 
> I assume your bin file is 1024 KB.. if it is smaller, it will be an encrypted map say from Revo.
> 
> I thought you could still upload zip files to the forum? If you manage to zip and upload your bin, I'll tell you if it's been mapped. Assuming it's a BAM or BFV


This work? I tried to zip it. It's a 1024kb file and I have a BEA engine. 1.8T 225hp, 2004 Audi TT


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Is that wideband o2 sensors or narrowband?


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

StuartDB said:


> Is that wideband o2 sensors or narrowband?


had to do some googling, never even heard of that. On autozone’s website for my car it says the upstream sensor is a wideband. Not sure if there’s a better way to tell


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

I can download your zip file but need a corresponding "TunerPro" XDF file as it is not the same structure as an AMK or BAM (wideband) and I don't think it is the same as an APX (APY too) which are narrowband.

I have just upgraded my laptop to Windows 11 and appear to have lost my NefariousMotorsports login details to their forum in order to find someone with a BEA ECU XDF, I wonder if it is structured the same as a BFV (Audi TT QS) as that has a different definitions file to BAM and AMK (even though you can just overwrite it with a BAM file structure.

I know it is not BAM structure because a tell-tale sign of whether the engine has been remapped is the LDRXN table..

eg this is a map I did a couple of years ago when I first got my decat pipe.









a stock "max load" goes to about 165

but your BEA bin file shows this









which means a BEA has a differently organised file.

I can find the settings 










but that doesn't show the labels (RPM) above but they will be the same as mine

here is on top your Max LOAD and a stock BAM - if you have a remap it is pretty mild.


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Thank you so much for the help

It does look like my values are slightly higher than the BAM. How could I return the car to a stock map? And do you think doing so would fix my CELs?

So I was digging through the NEFMOTO forum for someone with a BEA ECU XDF and found this thread where the guy says his 04 TT BEA is unmapped and he also has the P1297 pressure drop between throttle and DV code... but he also says he has an adjustable DV?






04TT 225 BEA 8N1920980A 6spd


04TT 225 BEA 8N1920980A 6spd



nefariousmotorsports.com





Here's the bin file that guy attached


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

I realize now I gave you another bin file and you need an XDF (definition) file to properly read the structure of my bin. I'm learning. I searched through the forum for a BEA XDF and do not see one, period. Searched through the page specifically for XDFs and no dice

Also now I'm getting a new CEL, P1681 Control Module Programming not finished. Any ideas?


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Here's my post on NEFMOTO: 04 TT 225hp Quattro BEA 8N0906018CJ

Waiting for an XDF. And I read that once I get that XDF I can modify a string in the bin file and re-upload to get rid of the P1681 CEL. Hopefully someone has the XDF. The BEA seems weirdly less common, I guess TT's are much more common in Europe than North America


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

If you make any changes you must generate the check-sum otherwise it'll start the engine once then brick the ecu... and you'll either need to bench flash or leave the battery disconnected for a certain period of time.. 

There's some guys on nefmoto who have some tools which find the code words and work out the tables etc due the xdf


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Good to know. And interesting... I feel like working out my XDF will take me a year to figure out...

So on this thread 04TT 225 BEA 8N0906018CJ a guy has the same engine and says he got a similar but not equal damos (same as XDF?) from another guy named TTQS. Did some searching and think I found it here Basic ME7 Tuning How To

But it's an OLS file

Can someone explain OLS to me? I can't use it in tunerpro. Google is making me think it's like an encrypted bin file so not what I need? I also see it's a BAM and not BEA engine


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

It's used with winols, the locations are the same place.. but it sounds like a mission.

You might get a demo version...

If it isn't a daily driver, I would try and put on a BAM map if it is WideBand with VVT 225 or an APX map if narrowband... if it doesn't work try and put the original map back on

The QS BFV has a different structure maybe try that to view your bin ?


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

StuartDB said:


> It's used with winols, the locations are the same place.. but it sounds like a mission.
> 
> You might get a demo version...
> 
> ...


Oooh I like those ideas. I will hold off for now on the WinOLS, it does sound like a mission and I'd rather not have to pay for the software

I will try to find a BFV XDF to view the .bin with

Also uploading a stock BAM map is smart... I have a BEA which is just the North American version of the BAM. From what I've read the only difference were emissions-related to suit North American EPA regulations. Unfortunately it is my daily driver. Is there a risk that I will 'brick' the ECU and the car won't run? And it won't even allow me to put my BEA map back on it once it's bricked?
And what about this original BAM bin... it says software version 005, not sure what that means. Using my VCDS it says my current software is version 001





2004 Audi TT BAM 1.8T 225, 8N0 906 018 CG software version 0005


2004 Audi TT BAM 1.8T 225, 8N0 906 018 CG software version 0005



nefariousmotorsports.com




or there's this one





Audi TT 1.8t BAM 225HP 8N0906018CG 0261208268 1037369579


Audi TT 1.8t BAM 225HP 8N0906018CG 0261208268 1037369579



nefariousmotorsports.com


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

No idea to the answer, but there's definitely some emission changes also maybe elevation changes.


I have a spare ecu and power supply so am a little less fearful if these things. I know they changed around the organisation of some of the me7.5 VAG ECUs .. but I don't know if a BAM maps works on a BFV ECU and vice versa. I have only bricked an ECU once and that was because I didn't update the checksum, and then I wrote a map car started perfectly well and at the end of the engine start, the car worked fine until a restart. Then nothing just turned over and couldn't read or write a map, you're supposed to 'bench flash' the original map back on.. its where you put a wire onto one of the pins.. but leaving it disconnected for a period of time also allowed it to be re-written over again.

If I get a chance over the next couple of days I will try and write your BEA map onto my spare ECU.. if it works... it doesn't mean it will work the other way too.


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Thanks I'd appreciate that. I'll be on vacation the next week or so, no rush

I could also flash this guy's BEA map. Also worth a shot 04TT 225 BEA 8N1920980A 6spd or 04TT 225 BEA 8N0906018CJ
No clue what he means by 'FF first 32 bytes.' Can't figure out what FF is


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

StuartDB said:


> No idea to the answer, but there's definitely some emission changes also maybe elevation changes.
> 
> 
> I have a spare ecu and power supply so am a little less fearful if these things. I know they changed around the organisation of some of the me7.5 VAG ECUs .. but I don't know if a BAM maps works on a BFV ECU and vice versa. I have only bricked an ECU once and that was because I didn't update the checksum, and then I wrote a map car started perfectly well and at the end of the engine start, the car worked fine until a restart. Then nothing just turned over and couldn't read or write a map, you're supposed to 'bench flash' the original map back on.. its where you put a wire onto one of the pins.. but leaving it disconnected for a period of time also allowed it to be re-written over again.
> ...



Did you get around to writing the BEA map to your spare ECU?


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

sorry, I completely forgot about that.

FF is hexadecimal for 255


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

So I wrote a stock engine flash to my car (this one 04TT 225 BEA 8N0906018CJ) and there's no difference. Same original 2 engine codes about running lean and pressure drop between turbo and throttle valve. Plus the new one about 'control module programming not finished.' So I guess all was for naught.

So I guess it's not the MAP sensor. Back to the drawing board

On an unrelated note my car's fan seems to run 100% of the time now... going to rewrite the original flash and see if that fixes anything


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Feels like the more I try with this car the worse it gets. Can you send me the BAM XDF you were using so I can try to go into tunerpro and change the 2D to a 0D to erase the 'control module programming not finished' code (referenced here P0602/P1681 Control Module Programming Not Finished - Workaround for ME7.1.1/7.5 Thanks


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

The BAM XDF, doesn't have the same configuration as your BEA ECU... I manually added a table reference to a test file to demonstrate the LDRXN (max load) table was in a different MAP address in your BEA ECU.
If you're changing the bin file, you're going to need to either add the tunerpro checksum plugin or use the nefarious ms-dos executables before updating the map and writing it back. 

It might be worth posing a question regarding simply putting a BAM map on a BEA ECU in nefariousmotorsports they are both ME7.5 aren't they. I don't believe REVO have different maps for AMK / BAM / BFV (they are all wideband 7.5 with VVT)


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

StuartDB said:


> The BAM XDF, doesn't have the same configuration as your BEA ECU... I manually added a table reference to a test file to demonstrate the LDRXN (max load) table was in a different MAP address in your BEA ECU.
> If you're changing the bin file, you're going to need to either add the tunerpro checksum plugin or use the nefarious ms-dos executables before updating the map and writing it back.
> 
> It might be worth posing a question regarding simply putting a BAM map on a BEA ECU in nefariousmotorsports they are both ME7.5 aren't they. I don't believe REVO have different maps for AMK / BAM / BFV (they are all wideband 7.5 with VVT)


Oh I thought maybe with that XDF I could still try to 'control+F' the string that needs to be changed from 2D to 0D. 

I already asked about putting the BAM map on a BEA ECU. They are both ME7.5. Got no response. Also got no response when looking for the BEA XDF


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

All the XDF does is show the values at addresses with a sensible code and description and sometimes instructions (eg make 0 for decat) and performs calculations on them to show you something sensible, so if the value is milliseconds in the map it might be divided by a 1000 to show you seconds or similar. 

Have you found a BFV XDF ?


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

This post suggests you cannot change the key map. Eg put a BFV map on a BAM or vice versa






Audi TT240 PS file on 225ps ecu


Audi TT240 PS file on 225ps ecu



nefariousmotorsports.com





But if you can find a BFV XDF it might have the correct locations for the handful of table differences you are interested in.


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Can't find one. Here's maybe an incomplete one: XDF to suit 240 bfv file

And yeah not surprising that I can't just put a BFV on a BEA or BAM. Though BAM-BEA might be different since it's about the same engine. Not worth checking as I don't think it will solve any of my issues. As far as tuning goes, all I'd like at this point is to be able to modify my .bin file just enough to erase the 'control module programming not finished' code

My fan issue seemed to magically go away. Still have the original issues of lean code and pressure drop. I bought a new coolant temp sensor and o-rings for the injectors even though I know they're fine. Could try replacing the cat but that's expensive and definitely isn't causing the pressure drop code. Who knows


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Are you sure you have the right map sensor? Has it been replaced at some point? I started my car after some modifications and accidently used my 4bar map sensor without the corresponding map updates and it had the same error.


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

StuartDB said:


> Are you sure you have the right map sensor? Has it been replaced at some point? I started my car after some modifications and accidently used my 4bar map sensor without the corresponding map updates and it had the same error.


I've only owned the car 10 months now and don't have a way to ask the previous owner if it was replaced. I have a picture I put in on page 3 of this post and it looks like it has the original audi logo so I believe it's stock


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Is it plugged in?


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Lol I see why you’re asking based on the picture. Yes, it’s plugged in


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Figured I'd give an update since I've been busy and am about to be gone for 3 weeks for work:

Changed the MAP sensor - no change
Changed the engine coolant temperature sensor - no change to the CELs. I do notice that the temp gauge takes much longer to warm all the way up. I had a feeling my thermostat is bad and stuck open. I will order one and fix it when I get back. Though I still think that's a wholly unrelated problem

When I get back I'm also going to change the O-rings on the fuel injectors since it's very cheap even though I don't think that's the problem. I've now been intermittently getting a 4th CEL, saying my idle RPM is sometimes too high... again making me think an air leak. Though I've smoke tested this thing many times with no results I guess I can try again


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Been a while figured I'd give an update:

Replaced fuel injector O rings + upstream O2 sensor. No change

Just uploaded a BAM ECU. Will see where it goes

In other new the power steering return line had a massive rupture... it was being rubbed on by the axle on the driver's side where it runs right underneath it. Had to replace the line. Luckily it ruptured when I was near home


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Well, it's a minor miracle. It's been about 300kms of driving since uploading the BAM ECU and 2 of my 3 CELs disappeared. I lost the 'programming control module not finished' and the 'pressure drop between turbo and throttle valve.'

All I'm left with is P0420 Catalytic system efficiency below threshold (running lean)

Think it's time to buy a new catalytic converter? I think that's my best bet


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

David C said:


> Don't discount the "P0420 Catalytic system efficiency below threshold" error being the Cat itself failing.
> 
> I got my V6 in 2013 and have been getting "16804 - Catalyst System; Bank 1 P0420 - 001 - Efficiency Below Threshold" errors intermittently, mainly if driven gently/cruising.
> 
> ...



Sooooo not sure if this is good or bad but I dropped my current cats to look inside and they look good from what I can tell


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Decided I'll try an O2 sensor spacer on the post-cat sensor... read about it in this forum thread:





__





P0420 NIGHTMARE!!!! - AudiWorld Forums


1.8T Discussion - P0420 NIGHTMARE!!!! - P0420 NIGHTMARE!!!! I have no other ideas on where to go with this. I practically changed every part that has to do with this damn code and have not received any type of relief. I mean granted I thank this website and everyones input to getting rid of this...



www.audiworld.com





Another $40 thrown at this can't hurt


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

Look dude.... its great you've dumped that nonsense BEA flash...
just code the post cat sensor out.. it takes 5 minutes with Tunerpro and you get no more EML


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Will do if it comes back. I put in that O2 sensor spacer and the code has been gone for about 300kms now...

But alas, another issue. Was getting a weird vibration when clutch was doing final engagement and even worse was this clunk vibrating noise as the tires were going around. Put it up on jack stands and saw that where the drivers' front axle was mated to the diff it wasn't rotating in a perfect circle and also the grease boot was totally torn

Replaced that axle (cheap - $70) and the problem persisted. Figured this would happen when I saw the old axle's ball joint was fine. Turns out the axle is contacting that damn power steering line that runs directly underneath it (but above the control arm). When I put the jack under the engine the clunk went away.

So... no idea why it's contacting but I think somehow the whole engine is lowered. Probably failing motor mounts?


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

I replaced the engine and dogbone mounts but it is the transmission mount that's my problem. It's basically non-existent. I think this is from the previous owner because I can see work has been done here

See the three pictures, but two bolts were totally sheared off and flat to the transmission. One I've chewed up pretty badly trying to extract. The other I'm Dremel-ing a line to try to get a flathead on.

The third bolt had its cast threads totally break off so it's unusable. 

Any better ideas? I think I can hopefully get the flathead one out then weld or JB weld the transmission mount in addition to the one bolt...


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Well I ended up dropping the transmission. Milled out the broken areas, and had to use a magnesium TIG rod to deposit new metal then tap new holes. Also replaced the clutch and throw out bearing while I was down there. Will get everything re-installed over the next week or two here before winter hits


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Well I've finished putting it all back together. It drives and shifts fine. I do feel like there are some new phantom vibrations... especially when turning left. Did an alignment and still have the same result. Put the car on jack stands to try to ID the problem but no luck so far


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

if you removed the subframe with all your shinanigans - have a go at re-centring it - and make sure if you had removed it and used old sub-frame bolts - get new ones! I used stock wheel bolts to help centre the sub frame as they are V'd or whatever the real word is - and once relaxed and centred put in the new sub frame bolts. they need to be done up proper tight - and then a further stretch 90 degree - it will feel like you are pushing it off the axle stands with a breaker bar and extra stuff on it too


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Ah interesting yeah I did reuse the old bolts. I see I can get new ones online for about $30. 

I believe it is centered, not sure how else it could sit with all 4 bolts in place. In the meantime I torqued them all down per the specification but I'll go ahead and re-torque them


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## StuartDB (Feb 10, 2018)

The holes are bigger than the bolts. Loosen them and you can see the impact at the end of the track rod and lower arms, suspension etc a mm makes if you twist it.. they are also bushes so can be stressed in one direction. A tiny twist can make a big difference.. 

That's why TTShop said you need alignment after lowering the subframe a touch to fit a downpipe, because it probably won't go back to where it was before. 

I'm not saying it will fix your issue, some people have stripped the threads reusing old bolts as they don't stretch anymore.


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## doodlestj (Jul 23, 2021)

Before I bought new stretch bolts I decided to try to get a better fix on the exact problem first. Put the car on all 4 jack stands and got under it while my wife drove. Apparently the nuts that secured the bracket holding the exhaust to the subframe rattled off... replaced those with some lock washers and tightened as much as I could. Problem seems to be gone! 

Put a radiator cover on and switched over to studded tires - ready for winter. Haven't driven the TT since 30 April, it's a winter-only car!


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