# Replacement vehicle needed - Mondeo ST TDCI 155ps purchased



## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Need to replace an estate car - my N reg pug 405 TD - with something newer. It's been used as a runabout/load carrier for the last 8 years and I've had over 100k trouble free miles out of it. Sad to see it go really, but with 160k now on the clock it's showing it's age. About to go to the garage for for a suspension problem - expecting an uneconomic repair bill 

Potential replacements I'm considering are:-

Renault Laguna DCi tourer 
Ford Focus/Mondeo tdci estate
Pug 407 sw
Saab 9-3 tid sportwagon
Alfa 156 1.9 jtd sportwagon

budget up to about Â£ 10k and hopefully nothing over 3 years old. Will be keeping whatever I buy for a few years as with the Peugeot.

Important points are - must have comfy ride and good seats - the 405 and Monaro I have are both very good in this respect. Storage wise main requirement is to be able to get two mountain bikes in the back without dismantling them. I know diesel estate cars hardly conjure up an image of fun but I'd like something that entertains a bit in the handling dept and looks good 

Fun choice would be the Alfa, The Saab has a posh badge on it, the Renault would be very comfy and have all the gadgets. Don't think I could put up with the looks of the 407.

Comments from people who have owned/driven these welcome - and what are the alternatives?


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

Mondeo estate, what a bargain they are.


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

Have you not thought about a Saab 9-5 Estate?

I couldn't believe the value for one of those. Although the newer ones are a bit 'Dame Edna'.


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## mighTy Tee (Jul 10, 2002)

Laguna - you will either get a good one or a bad one, not worth the risk.

Saab - The luxury option of the bunch

However I think I would go for the Mondeo, a damn good all rounder, with cheap service/parts and lots of toys in certain models. Some bargain prices to be had as well.


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## jbell (May 15, 2006)

Kell said:


> Have you not thought about a Saab 9-5 Estate?
> 
> I couldn't believe the value for one of those. Although the newer ones are a bit 'Dame Edna'.


God awful things, friend had one from new as a company car, had 2 gearboxes and a clutch in as they disentegrated, has the slushiest ride on any car, on the plus side they are big.

My choice would be a Merc C-Class, will be older but well built and loads of toys.


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

I have a 56 plate (registered Feb 07) 2.2ST TDCi as a diesel hack. Itâ€™s a saloon though.

Value for money I couldn't find anything to beat it. Â£22,500 list and I paid Â£12,500 for a 1 year old clean example with 12k miles on it.

One touch electric windows all round, half leather sports seats, heated seats, electric seats, stability assist, air con, 6 CD radio, aux input for MP3, auto lights, auto wipers, electric folding mirrors, cruise control.

Rear seats down takes the fishing rods. That's approximately 6ft from the back of the driver's seat to the back/front? of the boot.

Handling - for a family saloon with a heavy diesel engine up front, it really is excellent. I am very surprised how well it handles.

Performance â€" a lot slower than your Monaro. But it's ok. 155PS. You can up it to 195PS with a Bluefin if you want to chuck Â£500 at it.

Price â€" you may be pushed to pick one up for Â£10k but you get a lot of car for your money if you are prepared to pay the extra.

Looks â€" like a herse! It's a Mondeo. Been around since 2001? The ST skirts, bumpers and alloys give it a little extra appeal however they do look dated.

The 100 mile trip to work today returned 52.6MPG with the trip set at 80MPH on that private road I use :roll:


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## TT_Broonster (Jan 28, 2007)

Mondeo would be my choice every time. If you're not a badge snob, they are excellent value for money.

I've never had the estate version, but I had the hatchback as a company car. It wasn't through choice either, and I really wasn't happy when I got it forced upon me by my emplyer, but after 3 years and 140k miles of motoring with it, I'd have another one in a shot.

I had the TDCi (130) Zetec version and it was wicked. Not a single problem with it the whole time I had either, apart from the last couple of months when the handbrake cable seized. Was sorted quickly & easily enough though.


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

Â£8.5k would buy a two year old Vectra SRI 150bhp SRi Estate. All the niggles would have been sorted as well. Look carefully & you might get factory-fit SAT NAV as well. The downside is image and a ride that can be rather unforgiving on rough roads. Not as good a car as a Mondeo, but this is reflected in the purchase price.


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Thanks for the comments 

Mondeo - drove one last week - a 56 TDCI ghia X - very good in all respects. 51 mpg, good handling, not that impressed with the seats though, side boulsters seemed a bit tight, and I hear that they all warp their front discs ("it's a ford...") The looks do nothing for me, then again it's better than the vectra imo.

On the Saab I like the looks and interior (of the pre-edna versions) however I'm concerned by platform sharing - the vectra chassis has never had rave reviews yet Saab say it's wonderful in their car :?

Still fancy an Alfa :roll:


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## Hilly10 (Feb 4, 2004)

Have a look at the Saab dealers. One in Stoke at the weekend was showing 95s at 10 grand off list Â£14,995 on the road


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

PaulS said:


> Thanks for the comments
> 
> Mondeo - drove one last week - a 56 TDCI ghia X - very good in all respects. 51 mpg, good handling, not that impressed with the seats though, side boulsters seemed a bit tight, and I hear that they all warp their front discs ("it's a ford...") The looks do nothing for me, then again it's better than the vectra imo.
> 
> ...


Just go ahead an get a 159 JTD Sportwagon lusso. Run it for a year so we can see what the ptfalls might be, then several here may just follow your lead.

:wink:


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## gcp (Aug 8, 2002)

Heart says Alfa..
depends if you live close to a good Alfa dealer, not sure if any exist, some very good specialists around though.

Head says Mondeo..
had a 51 plate and was a good, cheap, reliable car.


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## The Silver Surfer (May 14, 2002)

How about the Mazda 6 estate?

For example, this one:










Or this one:










Or this 56 plate car from a Mazda dealer:


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## alexasTT (Jan 19, 2005)

what about a skoda octavia or a volvo v70 :idea:


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Had a run around a few dealers this morning.

Have discounted a Renault on it's lottery reliability stakes.

Had a quick test drive of a Saab 9-3 tid 150 sport, 55 plate 20k miles at Â£11,995 (only the saloon model) reasonably impressed with interior, seating very good, however, didn't like the steering .... still think my Pug 405 is better. Although was impressed with the folding rear seat design allowing large objects to be carried in the boot. I think one bike would go in.

As for an Alfa, although very beautiful, I think I'd be taking even more of a gamble than on the Renault as there is no specialist dealer nearby, plus 159 sw models prices are a bit higher than my intended starting point :wink:

Current favourite is the Mondeo. I could sort the seating problem by getting a Mondeo with the optional Recaro seats fitted ... to the 2.2 TDCI 155ps .... ST model....  They look _very_ good in that Blue colour.

Trouble is finding one there seem to be very few about with those seats fitted :? Anyone?

A Dealer had a look on their database and found only 3 in their network (none with Recaros) they advise best to source one privately. Price wise I think I'm looking at 12 - 15k :? Could forgo an estate and make do with a saloon to get the price down?

Internet search next I think as I need to have something sorted by the weekend before going back to work on Monday.


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## cuTTsy (Jan 31, 2003)

PaulS said:


> As for an Alfa, although very beautiful, I think I'd be taking even more of a gamble than on the Renault as there is no specialist dealer nearby, plus 159 sw models prices are a bit higher than my intended starting point :wink:.


Paul, think I remember seeing a post that you are in the Stansted area? If so there is an Alpha specialist behind Magnets in Stortford.


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## shao_khan (May 7, 2002)

Just replaced our Vectra SRi 150 with a Vectra 3l Tdi both estates. They cover around 12k miles in 6 months pulling our caravan around Europe, up and down the motorways of the UK and this is the 8th I think and not one has failed us, always comfy ride. the 1 definately handles better with the less wieght int eh front, but the 3l is a great second hand buy. Having had some Saabs as well I wouldnt bother too much about about the Saab over the Vauxhall as to me it seems like you pay extra money for not much.


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## The Silver Surfer (May 14, 2002)

I take it the Mazda 6 is not on your radar then, Paul?


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

PaulS said:


> Current favourite is the Mondeo...Price wise I think I'm looking at 12 - 15k :?...


Have you driven the 155, a mate had one and it's not actually that fast, it's a hefty premium over say a 2.0 TDCI 130 Zetec, I reckon that would be my choice.


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

I haven't driven a 130ps only the 155ps (a friends, in Ghia X trim) it went very well with loads of torque. Went to put it in 4th, got 6th instead, still had plenty of pull to overtake. He regularly gets 51mpg from it too. Only issue was those standard seats which aren't as good as they look

Re the Mazda 6 - I have never bought Japanese and it wasn't on my list but I had a quick look at one. It's based on the Mondeo platform so should drive well.

I think I've found what I'm looking for.

July 07 (07) ST TDCI 155ps 5 door hatch. 1 owner (Ford) 12k miles Â£12999

It's in Ford 'performance' blue (surely _the_ colour for an ST) best bit is it has those Recaro seats :wink:

Seems to have tons of kit, I've put a deposit on it and am looking forward to taking a look tomorrow. It's at mja Sunbury (anybody dealt with them?)


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

cuTTsy said:


> Paul, think I remember seeing a post that you are in the Stansted area? If so there is an Alpha specialist behind Magnets in Stortford.


Yep I'm there, the sports car garage (ex-tvr) is around the corner. It's nice to hear their V8's rumbling up and down the high street now and again whilst on a test run - I like to compare it to the Monaro.

Be nice to have an alfa sometime but best I take the sensible option this time. Ford dealers are everywhere and the servicing prices seem good.


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

Hi Paul,

I am passing Stansted daily. If you need me to stop by in the ST to check the boot size out for bikes/kick the tyres just let me know.

And I have to say the sea grey is much less common than the blue :wink:

Cheers

Pete


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## Kell (May 28, 2002)

I love the look of both the 156 and 159 Sportwagons, but IIRC, they are much like the A4 in that they're lifestyle estates and don't actually offer that much room.

Mondeo, Vectra, 9-5, C5 all probably would swallow two bikes - anything smaller and I think you'd struggle.

Although I did used ot be able to get my P7 in the back of the TT.


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## cuTTsy (Jan 31, 2003)

PaulS said:


> cuTTsy said:
> 
> 
> > Paul, think I remember seeing a post that you are in the Stansted area? If so there is an Alpha specialist behind Magnets in Stortford.
> ...


Thought so can't be many Monaro's about seen your car a couple of times, I think you are just up the road from me. I am right opposite all the building work.


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Well I went down to MJA today to have a look at the Blue ST TDCI 155ps they had.

Couldn't fault the test drive, steering, brakes, ride quality all fine. Looking around the car found one or two dinks and noticed that it had new front tyres on it - at 14k miles (surely they don't eat tyres that quickly??)

However, from the moment I first opened the door I knew I wasn't going to buy it. No Recaros :roll:

Apparantly it was 'a mistake' that the car shown on the internet was showing Recaros - but this one didn't have them. Were they willing to negotiate on the price - based on the fact that the Â£1.5k Recaro seat option was not present, (not that I'd buy it), but ..... err no.

Also noticed on the paperwork that the previous owner was Hertz (hire car) mileage was actually 13.5k not 12k, and that it was also due a service.

So I walked.

Going to have a look at this tomorrow.

Although not in that blue colour that I think suits it well (the grey metallic is fine though) it looks smart and does have those seats and the sat nav option. 2k more expensive at 15k though. Ho hum.

What about an A3 sportback - are they fun to drive, what are the seats like in the s-line option?


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

Ouch, way too expensive.

Also, I "think" the wheels are wrong for an ST?


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## alexasTT (Jan 19, 2005)

what about this?
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/523330.htm


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

Without wishing to offend, I think you'd have to be barking to spend Â£15k on an old model Mondeo!

We had an 2002/02 TDCi 130 Zetec estate from new. It was an import, cost me Â£14k. I sold it at just over 3 years old for Â£7k. Only thing that went wrong was the rear shocks which cost me about Â£200 to replace. I think I spent no more than Â£600 servicing it over the 3 years.

Great car for what you're looking for, can think of no better. But Â£15k for an old model Mondy with bells & whistles?...nah.


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

Carlos said:


> Without wishing to offend, I think you'd have to be barking to spend Â£15k on an old model Mondeo!


Couldnt agree more.

Check out http://www.lawesgarage.co.uk/72717/stock.htm

Listing a couple at Â£13k with Recaros and from yours to Colchester in the Monaro Paul is only about 5 minutes :wink:


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Carlos said:


> Great car for what you're looking for, can think of no better. But Â£15k for an old model Mondy with bells & whistles?...nah.


With respect, actually I think it will suit my requirements very well. I just haven't found anything else that is so good all around. And I still have the Monaro to play with :wink:

Looked over the car extensively today and couldn't find a mark on it.

Is very highly specced and has several those extra toys such as the Inbuilt sat nav, park assist, privacy glass, upgrade wheels etc etc. The integrated sat nav is great big improvement over a stick on tom tom I'm currently using. The Recaro seats are absolutely perfect.

Suffice to say a deal was done :wink: and it's now sitting on my driveway.

At the moment I'm a bit stunned really it just performs so well in all areas. But it would compared to my previous commuter vehicle. More of how it drives later.

Dealership experience was excellent. I've looked at about 8 cars in various dealers/retail outlets over the last week and this was by far the best.

Comedy award goes to Carland on the A10 in Enfield in dusty North London. Couldn't start the car as it had no fuel in it eventually they 'refuelled it' (using a can :roll: ) it then run out of fuel on the A10 :lol:

Clowns.

Shark award to *** in Sunbury :wink:

Archers in picturesce Ashby were great. Highly professional. Spent most of the day, there the car was serviced, valeted (again), service book updated and taxed whilst I had lunch in Ashby.

Not bad for a runabout, and well pleased at the moment 

Scavanger & CuTTsy it would be good to have meet sometime in Mountfitchet. I'll pm you :wink:


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

PaulS said:


> Suffice to say a deal was done :wink: and it's now sitting on my driveway.


Sounds great


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Wondermikie said:


> PaulS said:
> 
> 
> > Suffice to say a deal was done :wink: and it's now sitting on my driveway.
> ...


In lieu of a signed affidavit confirming actual transfer of vehicle ownership to me :wink: here are a few pics of it at the dealers:
























I'll post some more at the weekend.


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

PaulS said:


> Suffice to say a deal was done :wink: and it's now sitting on my driveway.
> 
> .... stuff.....
> 
> Scavenger & CuTTsy it would be good to have meet sometime in Mountfitchet. I'll pm you :wink:


Congatulations [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

We can have a Mondeo mini-meet :roll:

I have "invested" in a Bluefin. I am still not convinced it was worth the money but I need to do some more testing. We could have a diesel-off to compare [smiley=idea2.gif]


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

scavenger said:


> PaulS said:
> 
> 
> > Suffice to say a deal was done :wink: and it's now sitting on my driveway.
> ...


We will 

Interested in the Bluefin too. Although I'm going to run the car for some distance yet and get some base figs before making any changes. I have data logging on the Monaro it's an interesting subject :roll:

After yesterdays great run back from Ashby today I going to have a run on the best a & b roads locally for a further assement 

Some points so far I can't believe how well it handles and goes around roundabouts. The sort I used to take 2nd gear can now be done in 3rd, virtually no turbo lag, just blip the gas pedal to keep the tubo spinning and it flies out of corners and accelerates on a wave of torque 

Also, I'm amazed how well it pulls ... in 6th! Something to do with the transient overboost system on the TDCI 2.2?


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

The Bluefin turned up yesterday. You plug it into the diagnostic port and it downloads your current map and uploads the new one.

I have just popped out and ran some basic tests and our test track.

Test 1 - 2nd gear, 2750rpm to fixed sign

Blufin: 120mph
Ford map: 118mph

Test 2 - 4th gear, 1500rpm to fixed sign

Blufin: 120mph
Ford map: 120mph

Test 3 - 3rd gear, 2000rpm to lane end marker

Blufin: 90mph
Ford map: 90mph

I dont have timings but surely max velocity should be higher with the Bluefin over the given distance, or at least max velocity reached sooner?

Just re-installing again for one more test before I phone Superchips up and exercise my seven day refund rights :?


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## cuTTsy (Jan 31, 2003)

Sorry missed some of this thread as I am away at the mo. We have an s-line sportback you could of had a look at, but a little too late now.

Paul look out for a dark grey q7 with newbury plates.

Hope you enjoy your new car.


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

scavenger said:


> Just re-installing again for one more test before I phone Superchips up and exercise my seven day refund rights :?


How much - about Â£500? Sounds rubbish to me.


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

Wondermikie said:


> How much - about Â£500? Sounds rubbish to me.


Clearly it has made no improvement.

Superchips have been helpful. I downloaded another map to the Bluefin (online) and installed that. Sadly that made no difference.

Called them back and they want to see the car to make me happy and find out why it doesn't work. Popping over to Milton Keynes in a couple of weeks to get their guys to take a look.


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

scavenger said:


> Wondermikie said:
> 
> 
> > How much - about Â£500? Sounds rubbish to me.
> ...


Guess you're never going to be sure if a remap actually works unless you have those baseline figs - from a rr session. I'll sit on the fence for a while before (if) I do a bluefin upgrade on mine.

Do SC do an 'economy' upgrade :roll: Currently showing 40mpg on the dis on mine, pleased bearing in mind I'm still in the 'getting used to it' period, on it's 1st full tank of fuel. Performance in commuting conditions is more than adequate I'm never left wanting for power it seems 

BTW superchips did an upgrade on my Clio Sport some years back the results were excellent :wink:


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

Reading a few forums some were claiming, or quoting, a 5-12 MPG improvement. Well, not for me! The commute yesterday returned exactly the same as last week - 52.6MPG

My TT was SC'd and I was chuffed with that


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

Any further news with the remap, did you get your dosh back on it?


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

I am off to Superchips next Friday so they can get the car on their rolling road and see whats going on.

Strangely I feel a moral obligation to go to SC's in the hope they can diagnose the issue rather than just getting my money back. Must be something to do with modding cars... :?


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Not wishing to upstage Mayurs wonderful 911, here are a few pics of my new Mondy taken after I spent most of the day, washing, claying, and polishing it 

It's a handsome looking thing I think and I'm very pleased with it. Those Recaros are very very comfortable, almost as good as those in the Monaro. The sound system is very good, my mStation 500gb sound system plugs straight in. All I can think to do is upgrade the speakers to infinity, as I had in the Peugeot.

Co-incidentally the tyre size is almost identical to the Monaro which will make handling comparisons easy and hopefully a discount at tyre purchasing time as I'll ask for 8 and not 4


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

Mmmm does look tasty, not a bad stablemate for the Monaro.

'leccy seats too, and heated front screen, great idea.


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

scavenger said:


> I am off to Superchips next Friday so they can get the car on their rolling road and see whats going on.
> 
> Strangely I feel a moral obligation to go to SC's in the hope they can diagnose the issue rather than just getting my money back. Must be something to do with modding cars... :?


Be interesting to see how it goes.


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## Whitter45 (Sep 21, 2005)

seems funny how it does not have the ST wheels though


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## PaulS (Jun 15, 2002)

Whitter45 said:


> seems funny how it does not have the ST wheels though


The 5 spoke wheels on it were an optional upgrade over the 18 spoke alloys. From what I've read, they are more durable (and easier to clean) than the 18 spokes. I've seen several STs with them. The car came direct from Ford management, guess they loaded it up with all the options


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## Wondermikie (Apr 14, 2006)

Out of later model STs I'd say more have those wheels than the multi-spoke ones, I've seen loads with them.

Wouldn't fancy cleaning the other ones.


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