# when clowns rule the world



## darrenmk (Apr 12, 2012)

In my humble opinion, the rule to not let new members look at used car adverts is fucking idiotic
I have never known such a ridiculous idea on a forum

I want to buy a TT and "what better place to start than the TT forum"I thought to myself. What an absolute farce !
Every car / jetski / mx bike / toy etc that I've bought since the dawn of the 21st century or so, has either been from a forum specific to that particular topic, or as a direct result of something on there. 
Yet here I stand denied such simple choices, due to what must be a clown wearing a 'one man band' rig, making rules to suit his/her outfit.

All you are doing is alienating new members ffs !

Why the fuck should I have to post up a load of shit and waffle before I can buy something that this forum should be encouraging me to buy????

Don't bother coming back with what you consider and argument, because frankly there isn't one. Its a stupid rule and that's that


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## Ikon66 (Sep 12, 2003)

darrenmk said:


> Why the fuck should I have to post up a load of shit and waffle before I can buy something that this forum should be encouraging me to buy????


You appear to be doing ok so far!! :roll: :wink:


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## Cloud (Sep 4, 2012)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

darrenmk said:


> Don't bother coming back with what you consider and argument, because frankly there isn't one. Its a stupid rule and that's that


It is a mildly stupid rule, although really, anyone selling their car would be mad to only advertise it here, so all the cars in the for sale section here are also going to be on Autotrader or Pistonheads.

Which brings me to the main point - I do disagree with one fundamental part of your rant. "what better place to start than the TT forum". People on forums don't look after their cars any better than people who aren't on forums as far as I can tell. I've seen plenty of posts on here where people are cutting corners on basic maintenance because they pissed their money away on mods. It's the same on any forum - you get a cross section of owners and that means you get a cross section of cars, so the fact that it's advertised on a forum tells you nothing about it.

There will be good cars on here and there will be bad ones. Just like on Autotrader.


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## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

I joined up here AFTER buying a TT. I imagine most people do. I joined other vehicle forums after buying too.
Clowns do rule the world anyway.


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## Chris Woods (May 12, 2013)

I agree with the OP as I joined before I bought a TT as I wanted to do my homework so I knew what to look out for .

Marketplace (parts for sale) I understand as people can be scammed paying for things and them not being sent etc ..

But that doesn't happen with buying cars, so why don't they only make the cars for sale section available and hide the rest ?

Makes a bit more sense ?


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## darrenmk (Apr 12, 2012)

Spandex said:


> darrenmk said:
> 
> 
> > Don't bother coming back with what you consider and argument, because frankly there isn't one. Its a stupid rule and that's that
> ...


Some good comments, but you are missing the point.
When people put something up for sale on a forum, its possible to go back through their old posts/threads to read up on what type of person they come across as and also what work they've had done etc. Ok its not infallible, but its better than going on Autotrader and taking pot luck.

Essentially it gives a buyer more choice and hopefully some historical information on the car - and that should be encouraged.

An example ... 
Lets say that being refused entry to the cars for sale section, I then decided to buy one from Autotrader. Later on (once the clowns had vetted me enough to become worthy enough to view it ) I might see the car I'd bought in the for sale section on here, where the original owner had tried to sell it and then find through his/her posts that the car was a right old bodge job. Yes that's the risk of a used car, but the community of a forum could have saved someone from making that mistake.

As I said above, its a stupid rule and one that needs changing


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## IC_HOTT (May 29, 2010)

I do find myself agreeing with the OP in general as this is a public forum and who exactly is protecting who ?

As always, especially with online purchases and handing money around it should caveat emptor all the way and this forum is no different. True, an established forum member will be able to display more history of trust than a newbie but that should NOT make a buyer/seller less diligent!!!

What about adding a pop up window "BUYER /SELLER BEWARE - DON'T MOAN TO THE FORUM IF YOUR PURCHASE/SALE GOES PEAR SHAPED " :roll:

So if this rule was removed what's the worst that can happen ???


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

darrenmk said:


> Some good comments, but you are missing the point.
> When people put something up for sale on a forum, its possible to go back through their old posts/threads to read up on what type of person they come across as and also what work they've had done etc. Ok its not infallible, but its better than going on Autotrader and taking pot luck.
> 
> Essentially it gives a buyer more choice and hopefully some historical information on the car - and that should be encouraged.
> ...


I'm well aware you can, with some cars, go and look at previous posts to see what they've done, but you really need to look at the statistics here. There are something like 44,000 members here. Only a tiny percentage of them will post build threads or even discuss mods they're doing, but virtually no one talks about boring old basic maintenance (the thing you're really interested in). Also, only a tiny percentage of them will use this forum to advertise their car (because AT and PH are much better places to sell). The chances of those two groups overlapping is tiny. So yes, you may get lucky and find a car for sale that also has some useful info scattered about the forum, but chances are the best you can hope for is a few threads discussing what mods the owner is doing.

The rule about stopping new members viewing cars for sale is patently stupid (and makes me wonder who the sellers think will be reading their for sale threads) but it should make bugger all difference to your search.


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## darrenmk (Apr 12, 2012)

Spandex, yet again you miss my point.
As a forum member, I should have the choice to look at ads

Whether or not you agree or disagree with my buying methods is a moot point

Its about choice, not methodology


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi darrenmk, As an established TTF member you will have the choice, but as a new member you won't.
It was voted by TTF member to continue the way it is, until you are an established TTF member.
Some may not agree with the rules, but that's the way it is.
Post enough *constructive* posts & you will get access.
Hoggy.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

Hoggy said:


> Hi darrenmk, As an established TTF member you will have the choice, but as a new member you won't.
> It was voted by TTF member to continue the way it is, until you are an established TTF member.
> Some may not agree with the rules, but that's the way it is.
> Post enough *constructive* posts & you will get access.
> Hoggy.


it wasn't voted by the ttf Hoggy tbh it was nicks ttoc gang chance to get £15 for nothing that we never got to vote on.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Gazzer said:


> Hoggy said:
> 
> 
> > Hi darrenmk, As an established TTF member you will have the choice, but as a new member you won't.
> ...


Hi Gazz, I'm sure you are wrong there, as the poll was on the TTF, not the TTOC.
Hoggy.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

darrenmk said:


> Spandex, yet again you miss my point.
> As a forum member, I should have the choice to look at ads
> 
> Whether or not you agree or disagree with my buying methods is a moot point
> ...


I'm not missing your point. I've agreed with you that the rule is stupid. I just disagree why.


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## darrenmk (Apr 12, 2012)

Gazzer said:


> Hoggy said:
> 
> 
> > Hi darrenmk, As an established TTF member you will have the choice, but as a new member you won't.
> ...


Maybe its like one of those EU votes, where they keep having the same until they get the result they want.
Now I've seen that for £15 I can view the ads, its all starting to make sense


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

darrenmk said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > Hoggy said:
> ...


Hi, The Poll on the TTF.
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=287293&hilit=poll
Hoggy.


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## blackers (Nov 15, 2006)

Gazzer said:


> it wasn't voted by the ttf Hoggy tbh it was nicks ttoc gang chance to get £15 for nothing that we never got to vote on.





Gazzer said:


> voted option 5 nick........ as in my view it should be open to all, buyer beware and be happy.


http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=287293&hilit=poll&start=105


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

blackers said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > it wasn't voted by the ttf Hoggy tbh it was nicks ttoc gang chance to get £15 for nothing that we never got to vote on.
> ...


forgot about that one, i am mistaken guys and retract my previous statement.


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## phil3012 (Jul 25, 2008)

I can see the logic behind it and remember the TTF and TTOC are different entities.

From what I can see, the main idea behind the ruling is stop the quick hit scammer, in one of two ways:

a) By joining the TTOC in which case there is an address for the individual on record, which could be given to the police if requested.

b) Imposing a post count minimum, so it would take a short time to build up a reputation, which would put some scammers off.

The logic behind b) being if someone if serious about a car, they likely spend time of forums asking questions like "What faults should I look out for?" "Does a xxxx model year come with x,y,z" that sort of thing. I know that I and many others do before buying a car.


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## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

Yeah they ask, and someone replies telling them to use the search button. :roll: A tough crowd.
I also see the logic in restricting access, but making them read-only would probably work. Sellers should take the same precautions as selling anywhere online.


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## darrenmk (Apr 12, 2012)

Ultimately it is very obvious that it is in the TTOC's interest to keep this rule alive, as there is incentive to join the club before purchasing a car and the TTOC benefits financially directly from this.
Therefore in my view the whole thing stinks and goes a long way to explain why such ludicrous rules would even be suggested

Perhaps in a parallel universe, clowns are in fact scheming manipulative imps that feed off of the masses.


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## blackers (Nov 15, 2006)

Gazzer said:


> blackers said:
> 
> 
> > Gazzer said:
> ...


No problem, to be fair it was a year ago


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## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

darrenmk said:


> Ultimately it is very obvious that it is in the TTOC's interest to keep this rule alive, as there is incentive to join the club before purchasing a car and the TTOC benefits financially directly from this.
> Therefore in my view the whole thing stinks and goes a long way to explain why such ludicrous rules would even be suggested
> 
> Perhaps in a parallel universe, clowns are in fact scheming manipulative imps that feed off of the masses.


I disagree. I was only here a couple of weeks before I'd posted enough to gain free access to the marketplace. I've been here about a year now and only recently joined the TTOC for the benefits outside of the forum.


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## phil3012 (Jul 25, 2008)

The rule around TTOC membership granting access to the For Sale section etc, has gone out to vote as one of the items in the TTOC AGM.

I think its one of those things that was set up with the best of intentions, but some people see it in a different light.


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

i did suggest a £1 subsription to admin back then so that the forum had the users bank/paypal details (paper trail) in case of a scammer problem. also it could help in an insurance backing to help out if the forum needed too. i didn't get a response as i recall :?


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## Shug750S (Feb 6, 2012)

Hoggy said:


> Hi darrenmk, As an established TTF member you will have the choice, but as a new member you won't.
> It was voted by TTF member to continue the way it is, until you are an established TTF member.
> Some may not agree with the rules, but that's the way it is.
> Post enough *constructive* posts & you will get access.
> Hoggy.


Must admit, joined TTF a while back and didn't take too many posts until I could view for sales. Better than some other sites that only let those who pay view, or others that have too many spam posts...


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## darrenmk (Apr 12, 2012)

Gazzer said:


> i did suggest a £1 subsription to admin back then so that the forum had the users bank/paypal details (paper trail) in case of a scammer problem. also it could help in an insurance backing to help out if the forum needed too. i didn't get a response as i recall :?


Now that is a much better idea - I wonder why it was ignored?


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## Chris Woods (May 12, 2013)

Just start a thread like this , once you've finished arguing with committee members you'll have a high enough post count !

And you've not paid £15 ...


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

darrenmk said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > i did suggest a £1 subsription to admin back then so that the forum had the users bank/paypal details (paper trail) in case of a scammer problem. also it could help in an insurance backing to help out if the forum needed too. i didn't get a response as i recall :?
> ...


cos it was me that suggested it :lol:


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## darrenmk (Apr 12, 2012)

Chris Woods said:


> Just start a thread like this , once you've finished arguing with committee members you'll have a high enough post count !
> 
> And you've not paid £15 ...


What a wonderful idea
So am I there yet? 

They'll probably make me get to 500 as punishment


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

darrenmk said:


> Chris Woods said:
> 
> 
> > Just start a thread like this , once you've finished arguing with committee members you'll have a high enough post count !
> ...


between 30 & 50 i believe


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## Matt B (Apr 8, 2007)

I actually agree with the OP on this one. 
I think it's much harder to scam anyone as a buyer which would be the case for the OP and therefore the risk of read only access to new members would be low. I joined the e46 forum before I bought my Beemer and had no such restriction.

I would restrict new members from selling but not from buying. Ie they can read it but not post in the for sale section


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## John-H (Jul 13, 2005)

phil3012 said:


> I can see the logic behind it and remember the TTF and TTOC are different entities.
> 
> From what I can see, the main idea behind the ruling is stop the quick hit scammer, in one of two ways:
> 
> ...


That's right. The main avenue for fraud was through the PM system as scammers gaining instant access could PM anyone and run a confidence trick completely out of sight - hense the delay to make them go elsewhere. Also the reason the cars for sale bit is hidden is that without PM access new members started spamming threads where the seller was posting on another topic making offers to buy etc which got complaints. As explained it was voted for by the established members.



Gazzer said:


> darrenmk said:
> 
> 
> > Gazzer said:
> ...


Was that the phone conversation you had with me Gary? I was hoping to run it through the club as there's a payment system set up already but I don't think that will happen now. There is no payment system with Tyre forums as this forum is set up to be free and this would require set up and administration and I think that's the main problem. It might be worth asking again. The one nightmare I forsee is if a scammer says, I've been scammed can I have a payout please? So there would have to be some proof of having been scammed but the "guilty party" isn't going to say anything and then it's back to the claimant who may be a scammer. I suppose if we knew them that would be better. Discuss....


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## fizz (Jun 27, 2013)

There certainly are some clowns around, that's for sure :-*


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

fizz said:


> There certainly are some clowns around, that's for sure :-*


Hi, fizz, will you be joining the circus ?  :wink: :wink: 
Hoggy.


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## fizz (Jun 27, 2013)

Hoggy said:


> fizz said:
> 
> 
> > There certainly are some clowns around, that's for sure :-*
> ...


I think I'm already in it


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## td_100 (Jun 26, 2013)

The rule I cannot get my head around is no pm's you cannot contact the moderators or administrators. That is ott. The main admin is only contactable if your on msn or yahoo.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

fizz said:


> Hoggy said:
> 
> 
> > fizz said:
> ...


Hi, that's the way, join the circus & enjoy the fun. :lol: :wink: 
Hoggy.


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## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

td_100 said:


> The rule I cannot get my head around is no pm's you cannot contact the moderators or administrators. That is ott. The main admin is only contactable if your on msn or yahoo.


I suspect that if you start a thread with "Excuse me moderators" or similar one would reply to you. It's not too difficult, being on a discussion forum.


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## td_100 (Jun 26, 2013)

Pugwash69 said:


> td_100 said:
> 
> 
> > The rule I cannot get my head around is no pm's you cannot contact the moderators or administrators. That is ott. The main admin is only contactable if your on msn or yahoo.
> ...


Well the whole point in being a pm is it is a private message


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## Pugwash69 (Jun 12, 2012)

They do know your email address. Ask someone to email you!


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## td_100 (Jun 26, 2013)

Pugwash69 said:


> They do know your email address. Ask someone to email you!


Ok thanks but I still do not understand why PM's are barred to other members, for new joiners. I have been registered to numurous forums and never had such a restriction.


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## Spandex (Feb 20, 2009)

td_100 said:


> Pugwash69 said:
> 
> 
> > They do know your email address. Ask someone to email you!
> ...


John-H explained it in his post above.


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## td_100 (Jun 26, 2013)

If thats the popular choice so be it, I was just commenting I have not seen this on other bulletin boards. 8)

Maybe TT owners a dodgy!


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

how can a n established member reply to a for sale advert,, is it only by PM ? ( just had my reply blocked by mods with no explination , nor means to reply to them !! )


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## boost22 (May 22, 2013)

Sorry for jumping in but been reading a lot of threads and other posts in flame room thinking what fu***** rules?, what a load of cack 

This forum can't even spell the word "rules" let alone adhere to the fuginkc thing :lol:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=119510 hahaha don't mean a thing mate.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

roddy said:


> how can a n established member reply to a for sale advert,, is it only by PM ? ( just had my reply blocked by mods with no explination , nor means to reply to them !! )


OK,, i didnt start this post with the recomended " excuse me moderators " but it was 5 days ago and no one has bothered to reply to what is just a simple enquiry !!,, why not, is there another way to make an enquiry to the "mods " and stay within the rules..


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi Roddy, You can contact the seller or Mods by PM. I can't how/why any Mod would have blocked your PM.
PM me as a test.
Hoggy.


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Hoggy said:


> Hi Roddy, You can contact the seller or Mods by PM. I can't how/why any Mod would have blocked your PM.
> PM me as a test.
> Hoggy.


thanks Hogg,, done


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## Gazzer (Jun 12, 2010)

roddy said:


> Hoggy said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Roddy, You can contact the seller or Mods by PM. I can't how/why any Mod would have blocked your PM.
> ...


ahhh so it wasn't blocked........they just ignore you Rodders lol


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

at their peril Gazz,, at their peril.. :evil: ,,


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## marttin666 (Aug 28, 2013)

Don't clown rule the world? they must else fuel would be free tax would be less and the rich would fight wars


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## roddy (Dec 25, 2008)

Clowns don't rule the world ( TTforum exempt , tho I am not suggesting that ) rich powerful cunning people rule the world ,,,otherwise poor people everywhere wpuld not be slaving to make the rich richer !!!!


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