# Â£80K What would you buy...?



## Johnnywb (May 31, 2006)

Was looking at what you can get in this price range and it's an interesting area with lots available such as;

2nd Hand Lambo Gallardo
Nearly new Aston Vantage
Old Lambo Diablo (why have these held value so well??)
R8
2nd Hand Ferrari 360

So what would you go for?

Personally think i'd take the Gallardo, maybe the vantage...

Purely hypothetical!


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

GT3


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## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

911C4S (or slightly used GT3)
AMV8
XKR
NobleM14 & TVR Sagaris 

H


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## Dr_Parmar (May 10, 2002)




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## Johnnywb (May 31, 2006)

Dr_Parmar said:


>


Stunning. And then you turn the key and the entire world shakes


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## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

Johnnywb said:


> Stunning. And then you turn the key and the entire world shakes


Turn the key and nothing happens....

....until you press the 'start' button, then the world begins to shake.... :evil:

H


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## ronin (Sep 6, 2003)

Dr_Parmar said:


>


I'm with the Doc on this


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## p1tse (Sep 20, 2004)

the above is awesome for sure.
but i would go 360, more touch of class.


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## Philr (Oct 10, 2006)

Vantage


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Not hypothetical at all.

R8.


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## Johnnywb (May 31, 2006)

jampott said:


> Not hypothetical at all.
> 
> R8.


It is when i don't have Â£80K to spend! 

Amazing amount of choice if you do have that kind of cash though.


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## ResB (Apr 17, 2005)

Carlos said:


> GT3


Ditto


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

ronin said:


> Dr_Parmar said:
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Me to only in yellow :twisted:


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## chip (Dec 24, 2002)

Johnnywb said:


> Amazing amount of choice if you do have that kind of cash though.


Yes, vast choice in that price range, but majority of these purchases will be on credit, HP etc... I see plenty of this "pen1s waving" at work from guys who earns a decent (but not huge) wage and driving exotics cars just so they can tell people they drive a xxxx etc.... Ask them about their debt (car finance & mortgage) and they soon shut up! 

Back to topic : Close call between Porker GT3 or Turbo, but I will cross that bridge when I came to it!


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

If had to spend the Â£80K & family circumstances don't factor then it would be 997 GT3 as my 1st choice or 2nd hand Gallardo as my 2nd choice.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Carlos said:


> GT3


R8 :lol:


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## TTwiggy (Jul 20, 2004)

1. Ferrari 360, because I've lusted after one since they came out (I'd want a spyder though)
2. R8, because I'd imagine I'd feel more inclined to use it every day
3. Aston Martin, because my Bond fantasies haver never gone away


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

chip said:


> Johnnywb said:
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> 
> > Amazing amount of choice if you do have that kind of cash though.
> ...


The "if you buy it on credit then it doesn't count" argument is normally spouted by those people who have a wife, family or both which doen't allow them to wave their penis into the Â£80k car market... 

I will be financing the R8 (or some of it, anyway) because although I could do things another way, this is the way that makes most sense. Despite what some people infer, this doesn't mean I can't afford it - at least not in the "modern" sense.

At the age of 33, without inheriting anything from rich relatives (in fact, without inheriting anything at all!) I would be "lucky" indeed to be mortgage-free on a large house, and in a position to purchase an Â£80k car for cash. I would also be foolhardy to own everthing on the tick and not be able to meet my interest liabilities let alone pay off any capital. It is possible, though, to meet somewhere in the middle.

If I don't own such a nice car now, it'll be seen as a "midlife crisis" in another 5 years  so I've decided to buy it whilst I can afford it (in a cash-liquid sense) and I'll see how it goes 

I don't think there *IS* a huge choice at that level. Some of the supercars certainly won't work very well as a daily driver, and some of the expensive BMWs, Mercs and even Audis aren't the right brand for some people to spend that sort of money on.


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## chip (Dec 24, 2002)

Jampott,

my comment is based on what I see around work, no need to get too sensitive about it! 

And wash your mouth out re: wife & family stuff. I get enough hints from her already so don't need you to remind me!


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## gIzzE (May 26, 2006)

I totally agree with that, I would never tie up a load of money in a depreciating asset like a car, when borrwoing is so cheap (1.3% over bank base rate is what I pay for my vehicle finance) why would I want money tied up in a car.

If you buy it right you can own a really nice car for not a lot of outlay.

I put a couple of guys in touch with the person I use for finance and they got into a new RS4 for Â£500 a month, they have driven them for 6-12 months and got out again repaying the outstanding baance and walking away, now into something else. 
I know people who take out a straight loan for a 3 year old car at Â£350 a month and then have to pay another Â£100 a month for warranty cover, at the end of their 48 months repayment the car is worth a couple of grand, so you have to ask yourself who is the more sensible? Not saying there is a wrong or right, but, we all look at things in different ways.

I am only young once, I want to enjoy myself now, not like my parents generation where they are sensible till they retire, my old mans biggest regret is doing that, he is now a couple of years away from retirement with loads of money and his knees are shot to bits and he won't be able to do sod all.

It isn't penis waving it is about living your life to the full, we are all on these forums as we have a passion for cars, whats wrong with spending Â£xx.xx each month on our toys? 
I have a budget of 15% of my take home for cars each month, doesn't get me into an R8, Lambo, or Aston unfortunately, but if I had the money I wouldn't say no to any of them. Probably still buy a 997 C2S though.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> chip said:
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Are you bragging Tim?? You mention LARGE House, R8 & Buying an Â£80K car quite often in that post. Me thinks that's bragging (unless you live in a large cheap house :lol: which you don't).

What's wrong with wife, family or both. It's allowed me to wave my willy into the higher end of the car market (albeit by lying to the wife & hoping she never works out how much i've spent :lol: ).

On a more serious note, all valid points & if you can you should it's as simple as that. Have fun as you only live once & enjoy the depreciation owning a more expensive car brings you  :wink: (brought a tear to my eye that).


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## Blade_76 (Aug 11, 2004)

Large House, Â£80k car..... Bet he aint waving anything too big :wink:

:lol:


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## DeanTT (Sep 11, 2006)

I'd be tempted to go for an RS4 (B5) as the run-around, and a Sagaris for when it isn't bloody raining!


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> jampott said:
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Bragging? Absolutely not. I only said "LARGE" house, not because mine is large (its probably average, but large enough for a chap living on his own) but because the sensible amongst us would suggest getting our living arrangements sorted before our driving ones, thus getting into your ideal (large) house and paying the mortgage off should (if spending money on cars is wasteful) be the way round to do it, and only when you've got your "large" house, do you buy your nice car.

Actually the R8 is being bought because I think it'll be a cracking drive. If I wanted to impress the TT Forum, I'd be better off buying a GT3. I also don't think it'll be woeful in the depreciation stakes, but that's always a gamble...


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

I know, was only having a giggle.

You know where i stand. If you can afford to then do it.

I'm still in the M5, as my heart wants to stay with it, but my head says money should go to other things better aligned at making me more money over the medium-long term. I say live for now but it's a fight i'm only drawing at the moment.

Big decision is next week, as i've told Judith that as soon as she stops working for good & retires, i'll sell the M5 & go practical, until such time i'll do nothing. Flash cars unless you're very very flush are a total waste of money, but in my mind a better waste of money than drugs & alcohol (that point can be argued :lol: ).

As for your R8, all expensive cars take heavy depreciation, even those that on launch command a premium (see 911's, M5's & RS6's). I feel the R8 will go the same way with the only unknown being pedigree. Audi don't have the pedigree in that sector as Aston, Porsche, Lambo & even Ferrari to a point. If the car is very well received then you'll just lose the average in depreciation which in Â£Â£ terms is still mucho cash, if the car is not a smash hot then that figure could go North.


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## Blade_76 (Aug 11, 2004)

Jampott - Fair play to you mate, I think you have your head screwed on and I am sure most of us on here would love to be in your position.

I think the R8 is an awesome looking car (shame they didnt make the new TT have similar looks!), am hoping to get a test drive in one via a mate who works for a local Audi Stealer.

I know if I were you, I would be bragging :wink:


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## jdn (Aug 26, 2002)

Don't know how much Jag are going to charge but...



















Different..


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

A Jaguar with a Seat grill? :roll:


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## TJS (May 6, 2002)

If the question relates to new vehicles only I would rather keep the cash as depreciation will hit all the cars mentioned with a vengance.

If Â£80k for any car then I would opt for good Ferrari Dino 246 GT (not the Spyder) in blue chiaro and daytona trim. Pretty car and pretty much depreciation proof.

TJS


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> I know, was only having a giggle.
> 
> You know where i stand. If you can afford to then do it.
> 
> ...


Everyone should experinence the feeling of frivolously wasting a hefty depn fee on an automotive extravagance at some point.

"I wanted to do it/ get it out of my system/ if I don't do it now" etc are all itches that just have to be scratched.

Only the individual knows if that particular car was worth 80p a mile costs in terms of personal enjoyment/ego stroked etc.

Be firivolous.


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## Johnnywb (May 31, 2006)

If i had the money, i'd do it. At the end of the day, i could be dead tomorrow and never have experienced it.


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## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

Just for pedants sake I feel obliged to point out that convention states North is up, not down...so the prices would go South....

...and although Audi may not have a 'supercar' pedigree, I think that Lambo probably do....'nuff said

H


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Hannibal said:


> Just for pedants sake I feel obliged to point out that convention states North is up, not down...so the prices would go South....
> 
> ...and although Audi may not have a 'supercar' pedigree, I think that Lambo probably do....'nuff said
> 
> H


Andy, i was stating the level of depreciation not the cars value, so that figure would indeed go North (up) :wink:

Lambo defo a Supercar pedigree but that pedigree is still seen as belonging to Lambo, not Audi as Audi only bought the pedigree, they did not earn it 

Supercars need badge prestige & Aston, Lambo, Ferrari & Porsche have this, as of yet i don't think Audi can make the same claim. They do however make some exceptional cars & some very rapid machines in the RS brand but do they have Supercar heritage?? Let's hope the R8 cuts the mustard.

In the looks dept. & probably engineering & performance it is sure to be a winner, but the car market is a strange place & may not adopt the R8 in the same way it does for Lambo & Pork etc. Fingers crossed but my gut feel is their values will drop heavily but hopefully avoid freefall. Also worth noting i know nothing so am happy to be proved wrong (all my own opinion). :lol: :wink:


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

They might be lacking the "Supercar" history, but the R8 isn't really a Supercar - not in any true sense of the word.

It is a direct competitor for the 911, possibly the AMV8 and some of the swift AMG Merc Coupes, maybe the odd Maserati.

It isn't a competitor against a Lambo, a Ferrari, a Bentley or any of the other truly prestige brands.

Nobody would really term the 911 a "Supercar", so why bandy that term about for the R8?

I know, I know... Audi themselves have used that word sometimes, but they're just talking things up. It isn't a Supercar, and I doubt even dropping a V10 and ceramic brakes in will change that.

What Audi DO bring to the table is an unmatched recent history in competitive motoring. Rallying, BTCC and Endurance Racers... they've turned up to the party and completed dominated, often by bringing completely different technology and a fresh "angle" to the sport.

Just try not to compare the R8 to a Ferarri. Or even a Lambo. It isn't trying to be either one.

You only have to look back a few years to the launch of the TT (made by guess who... innovative AUDI) to realise that is IS possible to bring an entirely new prospect and shake up an existing niche. Prior to the TT, there wasn't really a small Coupe market, and what there was was dwindling. The TT shook this up and has spurred other manufacturers into entering the market. The TT was very successful (and groundbreaking) for a few years, hence the popularity of this very forum.

If Audi can apply the same logic to the next aspirational niche - the more expensive Coupe / GT market, they're onto another winner.

When you get to see the R8 up close and in the flesh, you will understand some of what I'm saying. It truly isn't like anything on the road, and the design / style sets it right apart. This "edge", combined with a winning engine and usual Audi reputation really ought to leave other manufacturers quaking. The TT managed to blow the market apart, based mainly on looks and desirability. (Lets face it, the underpinnings were hardly earth-shattering) The R8 appears to have both looks AND a potent combination of features.

Press cars will start to be available next month and into March. It'll be interesting to see what the journos make of it.


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## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> Hannibal said:
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> > Just for pedants sake I feel obliged to point out that convention states North is up, not down...so the prices would go South....
> ...


I stand corrected 

He who knows nothing managed to make a swift 6k on an M5 list space if memory serves me 

Oh, and I appreciate the 'heritage' argument....I guess the R8 is to Lambo what the VX220 is to lotus (well almost).

H


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> They might be lacking the "Supercar" history, but the R8 isn't really a Supercar - not in any true sense of the word.
> 
> It is a direct competitor for the 911, possibly the AMV8 and some of the swift AMG Merc Coupes, maybe the odd Maserati.
> 
> ...


Totally agree Tim, however as the R8 is a stunning car & very cutting edge it can sometimes work against a car, look at those dodgy Renault things (Vel Satis & the other one). I know not in the same league, but very futuristic & the market hated that. I doubt the same will happen to the R8 but with Porsche as the benchmark & that design being as old as the hills, it really could go either way.

You know i had spot No 1 at Preston Audi well over a year ago & i only backed out when it was confirmed the R8 was defo going to only be a 2-seater (could not fly that past the wife without her noticing), so i'm a huge supporter of the car, it's just my doubts around future value could prove right (big Â£Â£'s) but hopefully i'll be wrong.

Also bear in mind that any Lambo underpinnings don't help an Audi as can be seen with the S8 & S6. I could get an Â£80K list S8 for close to Â£60K right now & that's an un-registered car brand spanker. Again the R8 is not an S8 but it's my only worry about the R8's future.

The only reason the R8 will be compared to the likes of the Gallardo, Aston & Ferrari's is the styling. The super coupes such as the M6, AMG Mercs, maybe the Conti & possibly the Maserati kind of have their own market so i do believe the R8 is being pitched against the Aston & Porsche 997 (i think that's where the Journos will pitch it as well). True about the TT but that's kind of a more mass market model.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Hannibal said:


> W7 PMC said:
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Everyone is allowed the odd mistake :wink:

Then lost the same Â£6K (probably more in fact) when he eventually took delivery of one  . Hey ho, you win some & you lose some.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

Supercar to sports car is a little like supermodel to model, n'est pas?


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## jam (May 8, 2002)

My money would be going (and is going) on a 997

The Lambo is stunning but I don't know how liveable it would be day to day. I was looking at 360 Spiders instead of the 997 but you are getting into expensive maintenance and servicing with 3 yr old 20k mile examples - which is what Â£80k would get you - they do look the puppies luggage though 

Just my two penneths


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

garyc said:


> Supercar to sports car is a little like supermodel to model, n'est pas?


Maybe so, but at least with cars there are quantifiable, tangible, measurable things to look at - not least of all is price. A new Fezza, Lambo, Koenigwotsit are all hugely expensive to buy and maintain, even by R8 standards. They're impractical to drive daily and you couldn't compare them to a 911 which is a step down from that bunch. Although a niche brand, the Porsche is designed to be usable and, in most guises, sits well below Â£100k. Regardless of anything else, price alone does add a certain something to the "image" of a supercar (versus a sports car).

Model to supermodel is a lot more difficult to define, its all about the beholder really.


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## Johnnywb (May 31, 2006)

A friend of mine used to use his Gallardo on a daily basis, his one comment was to avoid the E-gear like the plague as he went through two clutches in 18 months at Â£8K a time. The E-gear jjust can't handle in town driving, he said the manual would have been fine. No other issues apart from that and the fact it eats tyres!


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Johnnywb said:


> A friend of mine used to use his Gallardo on a daily basis, his one comment was to avoid the E-gear like the plague as he went through two clutches in 18 months at Â£8K a time. The E-gear jjust can't handle in town driving, he said the manual would have been fine. No other issues apart from that and the fact it eats tyres!


That's partly my point. The Lambo is a cut-above in terms of maintenence. Â£16k in replacement gearboxes just puts it into the Supercar bracket


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

Hannibal said:


> Oh, and I appreciate the 'heritage' argument....I guess the R8 is to Lambo what the VX220 is to lotus (well almost).


I hope not for Tim's sake, but I'm inclined to think that a lot of folk will baulk at shelling out Â£80K for an Audi, no matter how well it compares to a Porsche, Maserati or Aston in the same price bracket. Toyota wisely decided to launch Lexus to go upmarket and BMW wisely acquired MINI rights to go downmarket without tarnishing the brand. One might argue that Ford managed to sell a limited run of GT's at Â£100K+, but that's only because of the heritage associated with that car - for its more usual premium sports cars, Aston's the brand.

The problem for VAG is that there's a considerable gap between top-priced Audis and entry-level Lamborghinis & Bentleys. IMHO, VAG should have made the R8 an entry-level Lamborghini or even a new Maserati-level brand rather than trying to take a brand that starts at Â£15K to more than 5 times that figure. After all, who wants to have their customer service needs taken care of by the same folk who book fleet A3's? I struggled with this enough when I owned a relatively humble Â£34K Audi, i.e. [email protected] service. By contrast, when I've been into Porsche or Aston dealerships, service has been on another level which I don't think Audi can compete with. BMW potentially (and yet look at M6 residuals), but Audi - don't hold your breath....

Back on topic - I'll have a secondhand Gallardo please. On second thoughts, maybe I'll wait until secondhand R8's with not yet released V10 power hit Â£50K, which I bet will be a damn sight sooner than the Lambo.

Rob


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> Johnnywb said:
> 
> 
> > A friend of mine used to use his Gallardo on a daily basis, his one comment was to avoid the E-gear like the plague as he went through two clutches in 18 months at Â£8K a time. The E-gear jjust can't handle in town driving, he said the manual would have been fine. No other issues apart from that and the fact it eats tyres!
> ...


Me thinks not Tim 

Cost Â£12K under warranty for a single replacement of the Tiptronic on my RS6 & the SMG replace on my M5 was just shy of Â£6K & that was not the entire gearbox.

I can only guess that a replacement R8 gearbox will fall somewhere between Â£8K - Â£14K. This all depends on access, for the RS6 it was engine out & 80+ hours labour at Audi rates (do the maths). Perhaps in a Lambo or R8 it's a little easier being mid engined.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> jampott said:
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Paul, you misunderstand - it wasn't the actual "cost" (in monetary terms) of the gearbox - but the fact that (to use the poster's term) it "went through" them implies that the gearboxes themselves weren't faulty, but just that 2 gearboxes were effectively "normal wear and tear".

Unlikely to be the case in an Audi, despite them not having the best track record at making gearboxes... :lol:

Any gearbox failures are (IMHO) likely to be warranty items, where I assumed that the Lambo owner had had to fork out for the replacement himself. That's where the difference lies.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> W7 PMC said:
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Understand now. Yes i'd say the Audi gearbox should be a tad stronger.

Can't wait to see your new motor. When is it expected to arrive??


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> jampott said:
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No idea yet...

I couldn't spec an Audi Exclusive colour (yet) as the order form won't allow it 

So for now, the spec is:

Manual Gearbox
Mugello Blue (pearl effect) with Night Blue blade
Black Leather & Alcantera
Black Cloth headlining
Aluminium gear knob
Magnetic Ride
Sat Nav Plus
B&O Sound System
Heated Seats
Acoustic Parking System (front and rear)
Cruise Control
Light Package (includes the LED engine-bay lights)

I couldn't have the extended leather pack if I went for Alcantera, so still in 2 minds about that.

Â£1100 for the Alcantera headling was a bit rich for me... and electric seats (not standard) are a bit pointless as they won't get moved around.

If I have a fit of "look at me" (and the dealer order form allows) I'll switch to Imola Yellow with either a black or carbon fibre sideblade.


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> If I have a fit of "look at me" (and the dealer order form allows) I'll switch to Imola Yellow with either a black or carbon fibre sideblade.


'fraid you won't Tim, dealers have been told that they aren't allowed to accept any colour outiside the R8 spectrum. So unless you have a very special relationship with your dealer, you're stuck with:

Ibis White
Brilliant Red
Ice Silver
Jet Blue
Phantom Black
Monterey Green
Daytona Grey
Mugello Blue

Carbon sideblades are a must though, especially on Silver, Black, or Grey!


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

kmpowell said:


> jampott said:
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> > If I have a fit of "look at me" (and the dealer order form allows) I'll switch to Imola Yellow with either a black or carbon fibre sideblade.
> ...


Kev, I spoke to the Audi guys at the launch, and they are of the understanding that an "optional" colour won't pose a problem.

The current spec list doesn't allow for some other planned "additions" to the range (eg ceramic brakes) and Audi simply plan to line up the orders as best they can at the moment, but if mine isn't being built just yet, its likely the option to spec an "Exclusive" colour will be available by then.

I have a lovely hardbacked book from the dealer, individualy numbered to match my order. I have 524/1000.

I'm not a great fan of Carbon (hence I didn't spec the engine cover in that, and would always choose Alu trim inside over Carbon when offered) but I think it would look good as a contrast with yellow. With Mugello Blue, however, I don't see the point.

In anycase, its a removable part. If someone thought Carbon was an absolute must, I'm sure they can be ordered from a dealer or some enterprising folk will setup http://www.ther8shop.co.uk :wink:


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> Kev, I spoke to the Audi guys at the launch, and they are of the understanding that an "optional" colour won't pose a problem.


I tried to spec Misano with carbon and got flatly refused. The dealer said there was no moving on colour because the cars are being built in batches depending on spec. So I presume - provding it wasn't bullsh*t, which is highly likely knowing Audi! - they have a specific manufacturing run already setup that is now waiting for the orders to come through. I was also told that after the 20th of Jan (my spec deadline), there was no going back on colour.

:?


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

kmpowell said:


> jampott said:
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> > Kev, I spoke to the Audi guys at the launch, and they are of the understanding that an "optional" colour won't pose a problem.
> ...


The spec of TTs (the MKII) very much determined the build week, it seems, with various options available to order at the start, but not "ready" for several months after the build started.

If you put your deposit down in 2004 it is likely that Audi will be building your car quite quickly, and don't expect colour options to change prior to your build.

That said, I can't believe 20th Jan as a "drop dead" date - press and dealer cars won' be available until Feb/March, so I assume these will build before customer ones.

I haven't been given a date by which I must finalise my order, and quite honestly this doesn't bother me too much. I wasn't the first to get a deposit down, but I did so before the "crowd" arrived, so I'm pretty certain mine will build this year. Delivery in Summer or even Autumn wouldn't annoy me too much - I can enjoy the anticipation, knowing I have one on order, and can take the time to save some more pennies for it. Plus, if the car proves to be a dog, I can back out and either sell my slot or get my deposit back... :wink:


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## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

b3ves said:


> Hannibal said:
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> > Oh, and I appreciate the 'heritage' argument....I guess the R8 is to Lambo what the VX220 is to lotus (well almost).
> ...


Would Continental GT to Phaeton be a better comparison?!?!

H


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

jampott said:


> kmpowell said:
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Actually Kev, a quick check online finds that someone has already emailed Audi UK about the subject and got the following response:

"Currently, all the colour choices that we have available are those you will
have seen in the brochure and R8 Presenter box that Paul has I'm sure
discussed with you. Speaking in general terms, Audi exclusive colours are
usually made available within a few months of any new product launch. We do
however appreciate that R8 customers require their vehicles to be as
individual as possible and so will endeavour to offer this to you earlier in
the vehicles lifecycle if possible. We will contact you by letter as soon as
we have any information regarding availability of exclusive equipment and
you may have the opportunity to amend your order prior to it going into
production. "


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> jampott said:
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A typical wooly Audi response, that roughly translates to:

[translate]We want to get the first batch of cars out as quickly as possible to make as much money as possible, so we don't want custom colours delaying the production line. Then we will f*ck those customers off by offering custom colours, new engines and extra options at a later date.[/translate]

It's a good job it's not my car, that's all I can say.

:?


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

kmpowell said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > jampott said:
> ...


Presumably yes, they DO want to get the production line rolling, as they have more cars to build than they've got build slots, so it doesn't make any sense (financial or otherwise) to over-complicate things just to fit in extra colours, different leather etc.

There's potentially a trade-off - get EXACTLY the car you want, or get one of the first off the line. Choice is ultimately down to the punter.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Oh, and on the positive side of the depreciation coin, Audi has proven that it CAN offer a very very low depreciating car, when numbers are limited.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the B5 RS4.


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## David_A (May 7, 2002)

save up a bit:

http://www.broughtons.co.uk/approveduse ... ite=spyker

toss up between this and:

360 spyder or gallardo coupe

or save and

430 spyder or gallardo spyder

After all once you have a couple of masers - where do you go next!


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## gcp (Aug 8, 2002)

535d sport touring, old e30/e36 M3, 4 wheel trailer, a couple of seasons (maybe more) saloon car racing racing and plenty of track days in between.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

gcp said:


> 535d sport touring, old e30/e36 M3, 4 wheel trailer, a couple of seasons (maybe more) saloon car racing racing and plenty of track days in between.


Nice idea, but if you don't have the weekends spare to do that sort of hobby, or don't want to drive competitively, having a track car doesn't appeal.


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## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

jampott said:


> gcp said:
> 
> 
> > 535d sport touring, old e30/e36 M3, 4 wheel trailer, a couple of seasons (maybe more) saloon car racing racing and plenty of track days in between.
> ...


Does this lack of interest in track cars explain why you think Audi have had a recent BTCC & rally sucess  :?: or do you just set your calander back a few years to make you feel younger than you are * 

H*guilty as charged m'lord


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Hannibal said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > gcp said:
> ...


In the last 20 years is "recent" to me... certainly within my lifetime anyway


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## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

jampott said:


> Hannibal said:
> 
> 
> > jampott said:
> ...


OIC... 

H


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > jampott said:
> ...


Niiiiice.

That spec however will surely push the cost north of Â£90K?? It's going to look so sweeet though. Drooling as i type. 8)


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## TTwiggy (Jul 20, 2004)

i'm curious as to why in all this discussion on whether Audi can pull off the 'premium sports car' brand, no one has mentioned the Honda NSX. I would have thought it would make a good comparison? At the time it was very expensive (for a Honda), but cheaper than a Ferrari or Lambo of the same era. It won many plaudits for its abilty, and seems to have held its value well, for a car that is very much 'of the 80s' now.

Does anyone know if Honda viewed it as a commercial success, or was it simply a brand building exercise?


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## jbell (May 15, 2006)

TTwiggy said:


> i'm curious as to why in all this discussion on whether Audi can pull off the 'premium sports car' brand, no one has mentioned the Honda NSX. I would have thought it would make a good comparison? At the time it was very expensive (for a Honda), but cheaper than a Ferrari or Lambo of the same era. It won many plaudits for its abilty, and seems to have held its value well, for a car that is very much 'of the 80s' now.
> 
> Does anyone know if Honda viewed it as a commercial success, or was it simply a brand building exercise?


The NSX was very much a "Look what we can do" exercise to prove a point that supercars can be reliable and cheap to run, it was never a commercial sucess as the sales numbers were too small so they probably didn't even cover Ayrton Sennas fee for developing it.

It did prove the point very well though and I still hanker after one


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > W7 PMC said:
> ...


Hardly... 

Its still south of Â£85k


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## BAMTT (Feb 22, 2004)

Going back to the RS6 gearbox briefly how on earth can it take 80+hrs to change


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## b3ves (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> Oh, and on the positive side of the depreciation coin, Audi has proven that it CAN offer a very very low depreciating car, when numbers are limited.
> 
> Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the B5 RS4.


IMO, the B5 RS4 has retained its value so well because it fills a niche not occupied at that time by any other premium manufacturer, i.e. high performance all weather estate car. It was also half the price that Audi are charing for the R8.

Don't get me wrong. It looks like a great car and I'd love one, but only once someone else has taken the biggest depreciation hit.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

b3ves said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, and on the positive side of the depreciation coin, Audi has proven that it CAN offer a very very low depreciating car, when numbers are limited.
> ...


Well Tim's R8 will probably never get driven in anger. Nor will it have had dogs in it, and he is not adverse to taking a large dep'n hit on cars, so stick around. :wink:

ps all B5s still lost more value than people might think - at least 10% in 6 months - even whilst being in short supply/strong demand. But I suppose 10% of Â£90K could still be swallowed/indulged for a quick R8 In/Out.


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## damo (May 7, 2002)

jbell said:


> TTwiggy said:
> 
> 
> > i'm curious as to why in all this discussion on whether Audi can pull off the 'premium sports car' brand, no one has mentioned the Honda NSX. I would have thought it would make a good comparison? At the time it was very expensive (for a Honda), but cheaper than a Ferrari or Lambo of the same era. It won many plaudits for its abilty, and seems to have held its value well, for a car that is very much 'of the 80s' now.
> ...


I doubt Senna received any money for his input into the NSX - he was driving for Honda at the time.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

b3ves said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, and on the positive side of the depreciation coin, Audi has proven that it CAN offer a very very low depreciating car, when numbers are limited.
> ...


A niche at the time, but that doesn't explain the strong residuals which carry over today, long after the initial "wow" of it being an RS4 has worn off. I don't think the introduction of either the V8 S4, the V8TT RS6 or the V8 RS4 did anything to B5 prices. 2000/2001 RS4s are still asking Â£25-Â£26k despite hitting 6 years old.

Abnormal indeed. Udoubtedly a great car in is day, but it seems an expensive 2nd hand purchased when compared to a new RS4 or even a used B6 S4


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > jampott said:
> ...


Tim,

Are you 100% sure?? What's the base price?? (i thought it was bang on Â£80K). If so, the B&O alone is Â£5K (or at least it is on the S8) & magnetic ride just over Â£1K, so adding on the Nav Plus at close to Â£2K & few hundred for the other options (cruise, parking sensors, Alcantara, heated seats & extended lighting) the Â£90K figure must be close or reached by my calculations.

Makes no odds if the car costs Â£60K or Â£100K it's just the Audi options (like BMW) are far from cheap & the options you listed must be adding Â£10K to the price with B&O being half of that figure.

On a side note, i've heard the B&O in an S8 & it's out of this world. Not worth Â£5K of anyones money unless you're a true audiophile & intend to live in the car, but it's mind blowing none the less. I'm still drooling.

She'll need a run up the M6 Toll towards Lancashire during her run-in period.

Is Lisa technically selling her Transit LWB as she intends to lug stuff around in the R8 :lol: JK


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## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> On a side note, i've heard the B&O in an S8 & it's out of this world. Not worth Â£5K of anyones money unless you're a true audiophile & intend to live in the car, but it's mind blowing none the less. I'm still drooling.
> 
> She'll need a run up the M6 Toll towards Lancashire during her run-in period.
> 
> Is Lisa technically selling her Transit LWB as she intends to lug stuff around in the R8 :lol: JK


It's still 5k for a car stereo....I could understand it if it were at home, but what about road noise, etc. (I assume that you don't believe the guff that bose et al tell you about noise cancelling!). Please tell me Paul's been looking at the BMW options, not the Audi ones 

Let me know if Lancashire is on your run-in schedule....I'd love a proper look at the R8.

Lisa is presumably getting the S4 as the tranny replacement since she does so few miles 

H


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## Lisa. (May 7, 2002)

Hannibal said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > On a side note, i've heard the B&O in an S8 & it's out of this world. Not worth Â£5K of anyones money unless you're a true audiophile & intend to live in the car, but it's mind blowing none the less. I'm still drooling.
> ...


 

The van may only do 1800 a year but my A4 Cab and I have done 19k since May05.

I won't need the S4, I'll have an R8 at my disposal. :twisted:


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## Hannibal (Dec 1, 2003)

Lisa. said:


> Hannibal said:
> 
> 
> > W7 PMC said:
> ...


Which explains why you are selling your franchise....I can't see it being a load lugger...more the fastest way to transport a purse, rather than wardrobe!

H


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

W7 PMC said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > W7 PMC said:
> ...


With all due respect, Paul, have you looked at the prices, or just making this up as you go along? :lol:

Base price is Â£76k for a manual car, more than that if you want the R-Tronic (I don't).

B&O upgrade is Â£1200., not Â£5000

Alcantera is a no-cost option (instead of leather).

I did manage to get it to Â£85k at one point, before being told that the Extended Leather pack is not compatible with the Alcantera... so final price is about Â£82,500, give or take a few quid here or there.

I considered asking about discount for a few nanoseconds.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

R8 vs Gallardo

http://www.autozeitung.de/online/render ... 8887&size=


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > jampott said:
> ...


I stand corrected Tim. When my order was in over 1yr ago, no option prices were available so I was basing my assumption on general Audi pricing. For the S8/A8 B&O is around Â£5K & Ceramic brakes around Â£5K. Base price was just a touch under Â£80K when i last looked/heard. If base price has dropped & the remaining option prices have been slashed then no doubt i'm wrong. All the other bits i guess are a few hundred quid except Magnetic Ride which must be around the Â£1K mark?. Surprised the B&O is so cheap in comparison to the S8 & rest of the A8 range on which it was 1st available. Also forgot you were not speccing R-Tronic.

Still think it will be worth every penny.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

No prices have been cut or options slashed. Original rumour was for a Â£65k pricetag, which was later revised. Audi were saying "around Â£76k" when the launch event happened (subject to confirmation) and the price did level at that amount.

No option prices were published until the ordering process officially started.

Stop making it sound like some sort of fire-sale! :lol:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jampott said:


> R8 vs Gallardo
> 
> http://www.autozeitung.de/online/render ... 8887&size=


shot 2 - v. poor lane discipline. :lol:

Nice detailing on R8, nice seats - very Audi.

Love the Lambo rims. And car looks so much smaller and neater than r8, whilst retaining enough 'menace'

But the two cars, as pointed out by Tim, do not really compare. :wink:

Or rather, there is no comparison.

Unless Lambo stick the 4.2 V8 in the Gallardo and pitch it at Â£85K :idea:


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

...or should that be Â£82.5K? 

ps Lisa running around with a tranny? The mind boggles.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> No prices have been cut or options slashed. Original rumour was for a Â£65k pricetag, which was later revised. Audi were saying "around Â£76k" when the launch event happened (subject to confirmation) and the price did level at that amount.
> 
> No option prices were published until the ordering process officially started.
> 
> Stop making it sound like some sort of fire-sale! :lol:


That's funny :lol:

When i 1st really enquired & then stuck my Â£1500 down, i was told the likely price for the V10 would be Â£85-90K & the V8 around Â£75K so they were close to the money over 12mths ago. That said & NOT in a fire sale way, just go & spec some of the options you've mentioned on a different Audi car & you'll see what i mean. The B&O in an S8 is close to Â£5K so am very surprised it's only Â£1K on an R8 & that's what i based my assumption on. If it sounds anything like it does in the A8, then Â£1K is basically a bargain.

Still drooling


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## scoTTy (May 6, 2002)

I'm new to this thread so just catching up.

Fair play to you Jampott. I hope it's everything you expect. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

It's a stunning car and one I'd love to own.

It's a feck load of wonga for an unproven car and I don't think I'd spend this much money with Audi. I just don't have enough faith in the brand or the dealers.

That's not to say I won't be drooling on it when I get to see it though! :wink:


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## jam (May 8, 2002)

jampott said:


> R8 vs Gallardo
> 
> http://www.autozeitung.de/online/render ... 8887&size=


That Gallardo is stunning!


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jam said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > R8 vs Gallardo
> ...


No James. You are meant to say that the R8 is stunning. :wink:


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## damo (May 7, 2002)

W7 PMC said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > No prices have been cut or options slashed. Original rumour was for a Â£65k pricetag, which was later revised. Audi were saying "around Â£76k" when the launch event happened (subject to confirmation) and the price did level at that amount.
> ...


Surely the reason the B&O in the S8 is so much more is that the cabin area is so much larger, hence the need for more amplification and speakers....although admittedly not Â£4k more.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

damo said:


> W7 PMC said:
> 
> 
> > jampott said:
> ...


I know in the S8 they B&O system has active speakers (i think mounted on the dash) that rise & fall when needed (very cool). IIRC the Bose in TT's is the same price for both TTR & TTC & also the same price across the rest of the A4, A6 & A8 range (around Â£700) so surprised at such a big difference between B&O in an S8/A8 & that charged for the R8.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Maybe I misread the spec sheet and its actually a P&O sound system, taken straight from a car ferry.


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

....all of the OEM Bose and HK speakers used by Audi, Porsche, BMW, MB, are still made of the same cheap paper pulp that ultimately lets down the factory sytems, no matter hao many units they deploy and what wattage they run.

The exceptions are Dynaudio as fitted to some Volvos and the Linn systems in the AM DB9, and not forgetting the great Mark Levinson sound sytems in the Lexus, which are best sounding OEM systems I have heard to date. All of these use far superior and better matched components.

The Germans don't even come close, exept when it comes to charging for 'upgraded hi fi'.


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## Blade_76 (Aug 11, 2004)

garyc said:


> ....all of the OEM Bose and HK speakers used by Audi, Porsche, BMW, MB, are still made of the same cheap paper pulp that ultimately lets down the factory sytems, no matter hao many units they deploy and what wattage they run.
> 
> The exceptions are Dynaudio as fitted to some Volvos and the Linn systems in the AM DB9, and not forgetting the great Mark Levinson sound sytems in the Lexus, which are best sounding OEM systems I have heard to date. All of these use far superior and better matched components.
> 
> The Germans don't even come close, exept when it comes to charging for 'upgraded hi fi'.


Have to agree with that. I had a Lexus IS200SE, the sound system was amazing! Shame the car wasn't faster...


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## ag (Sep 12, 2002)

For Â£80k?

I'd have to say that subject to its looks, then the R8 seems ideal. If AUDI have managed to make a car that feels and looks good enough to be compared with a Lambo or Ferrari but is genuinely useable on a daily basis, i.e. parking in a multi-storey car park, going shopping, getting onto a ferry, driveable on 95% of british roads and with "normal" running costs with regards to servicing then it looks like a winner to me.

In many ways this is what they brought to the small coupe market, a great looking car that was quite practical and yet cost little more to run than an equivalent hatch.


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

ag said:


> For Â£80k?
> 
> I'd have to say that subject to its looks, then the R8 seems ideal. If AUDI have managed to make a car that feels and looks good enough to be compared with a Lambo or Ferrari but is genuinely useable on a daily basis, i.e. parking in a multi-storey car park, going shopping, getting onto a ferry, driveable on 95% of british roads and with "normal" running costs with regards to servicing then it looks like a winner to me.
> 
> In many ways this is what they brought to the small coupe market, a great looking car that was quite practical and yet cost little more to run than an equivalent hatch.


Yay! I'm not alone! :lol:


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## kmpowell (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> Yay! I'm not alone! :lol:


Tim, in all seriousness (and i'm *NOT* having a go or saying this to rile you) does it not worry you a little bit that the majority - and it is the majority of people - don't like the R8 for some reason?

Everywhere I read, be it PH or other car forums, there is always negative comments made, and those comments are usually surrounding dealers or it's styling.

I have also been a little suprised at how little 'private' interest i've had in my placement. Take into consideration how close we are to launch and also the fact I have not advertised prices, so punters won't know how much I have been offered before they contact me.

IMO the R8 is a financial gamble, and if the audiences it is targeted at are of have mixed opinion, I think that once the 'halo' has worn off after a few months, the R8 could be hit badly. Especially when Audi reveal the more powerfull versions details, that are due.

Just my 2p, but it's said with all seriousness because Â£80k is a hell of a lot of money!


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

kmpowell said:


> jampott said:
> 
> 
> > Yay! I'm not alone! :lol:
> ...


There are negative comments about most things. TVRs are generally accepted as a shower of shite (no offence) but you still took the plunge and loved it.

As for what you get offered privately - I would imagine that a private sale of a "deposit" is fraught with problems, particularly if you won't advertise the most important thing. Price. I wouldn't fancy offering blind - might have been better on Ebay!

Add that to the fact that, amongst Joe Public, the car is still completely unknown...

Of course its a gamble. Most things are, even your TVR... Â£80k *is* a lot of money, but I'm not risking Â£80k. It isn't often that a truly "new" car comes out. People could have said the TT was a gamble, especially as the press cars killed a few people, but when the public sees an "affordable" 4wd, mid-engined V8 2 seater sports car, who knows what will happen.

In actuality, your "early" slot might be very difficult to sell, as you are selling it "blind" to people who haven't yet seen the car in the flesh. You have to admit that anyone desparate enough to fork out over list for a car that is still a couple of months away from dealer forecourts is likely to have thought about it sooner and put their name on the waiting list at (or just after) the official launch. You are selling to an extremely limited market.

Selling a later slot - after the car has already launched, or at the very least been marketed and reviewed - might yield better results.

I just think your timing is wrong - Joe Public isn't excited about it, as they aren't seeing them on the roads or even in the forecourts yet. They're not being reviewed, they aren't being advertised and its only petrolheads who are interested.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

Blade_76 said:


> garyc said:
> 
> 
> > ....all of the OEM Bose and HK speakers used by Audi, Porsche, BMW, MB, are still made of the same cheap paper pulp that ultimately lets down the factory sytems, no matter hao many units they deploy and what wattage they run.
> ...


I don't think the Mark Levinson systems ever found their way into the old IS200's. At the time the original IS200 was around, the ML systems were only an option on the LS's.


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

jampott said:


> Maybe I misread the spec sheet and its actually a P&O sound system, taken straight from a car ferry.


That'll be it


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## W7 PMC (May 6, 2002)

garyc said:


> ....all of the OEM Bose and HK speakers used by Audi, Porsche, BMW, MB, are still made of the same cheap paper pulp that ultimately lets down the factory sytems, no matter hao many units they deploy and what wattage they run.
> 
> The exceptions are Dynaudio as fitted to some Volvos and the Linn systems in the AM DB9, and not forgetting the great Mark Levinson sound sytems in the Lexus, which are best sounding OEM systems I have heard to date. All of these use far superior and better matched components.
> 
> The Germans don't even come close, exept when it comes to charging for 'upgraded hi fi'.


Have to agree on the Bose & to a point the HK (not sure who the new Logic7 is made by but i guess it's still HK), however over a standard stereo, Bose & more so HK (to me) make a significant improvement in car audio quality. In car audio is always limited by design & the acoustics/road noise any car suffers with. The ML system is probably slightly better (not greatly) & the same applies to Dynaudio. Never heard the Linn systems so can't comment, however compared to everything i have ever heard, the B&O system in an S8 wins by a country mile.


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## digimeisTTer (Apr 27, 2004)

All i can say is you lucky sod Tim!

I think it will be a fantastic motor and fully believe it will catapault Audi into the supercar market(which they now have experience in with Lambo).

Audi have built their prestige seriously over the last 5 or 6 years overtaking Mercedes and possibly BMW.

As you pointed out they have trounced the competition in motorsport, not only recently, so everybody knows the heritage is established.

Enjoy it will be awesome.


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## Love_iTT (Aug 18, 2002)

Interesting post. I've had my name down for about a year and a half now for the R8 and was 4th on the list but I went in just prior to Christmas to cancel my interest and position.

I fell in love with the R8 when I first saw the pics and promised myself that by hook or by crook, no matter what the cost, that I would get one, I am a long time dead and I deserve that car.

That was 18 months or so ago though, my mortgage is paid off, I have no major outstanding depts and this car would not be too much of a problem to buy but...

I started to think what the hell am I doing, Â£80,000.00 on a car 

Am I mad? What would I do with it? where on earth could I use all that power everyday with speed cameras spouting just about everywhere now? 8 miles to work everyday along country roads and normaly a 10 min queue, maybe use it at weekends on some Motorways - it just doesn't seem to make sense anymore. As much as the R8 just dribbles sex and is just an awesome car to look at, I persononally can't justify spending Â£80,000.00 on any car - not just the R8 - which is my answer to the main question of this thread.

However, I did see an imaculate Jaguar XJR Soveriegn this weekend which had every concievable extra you could think of - even a heated steering wheel   The original cost of the car was Â£74000, it's 3 years old and has done 47000 miles and is now up for grabs for Â£27950.

Now being a Jaguar fan and an old git as well then this is looking tempting :wink:

Good luck with your R8 Tim - bags a ride when you get it (in the passenger seat of course) :wink:

Graham


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