# Rear wing up = speeding



## Blanchie (Jun 2, 2009)

Has anyone else had the "your wing was up you were speeding" line yet from the boys in blue?
I think I may of upset someone last night when his first lines were "do you think your f-ing batman or something?"
Ok I was "pushing on a bit" but I think he was more pissed his 5 series wasn't upto the job LOL...Was let on my way after I pointed out the wing override switch...thank you Audi


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## JPTT (May 22, 2011)

Not yet! The wing goes up at around 70mph but down at about 50mph too. That's anther excuse if needed!


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## MXS (May 10, 2010)

Blanchie said:


> Has anyone else had the "your wing was up you were speeding" line yet from the boys in blue?
> I think I may of upset someone last night when his first lines were "do you think your f-ing batman or something?"
> Ok I was "pushing on a bit" but I think he was more pissed his 5 series wasn't upto the job LOL...Was let on my way after I pointed out the wing override switch...thank you Audi


No tugs by plod as yet, but there again I am a law abiding citizen :wink:


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## sixdoublesix (Nov 3, 2009)

Wing goes up at 77 but was changed on later models. Regardless of spoiler I'm sure a plod would have gone on his perception of speed and by you admitting you were pushing it a bit!

I don't think the TT needs to be pushed, I doubt you need to prove to anyone or yourself it's a fast car and if you do then head to a track and let it out


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

The wing should go up at 120kph true which is about 74mph. Most TT speedos under-read by 0.5%-3% depending on the tyres fitted (255/35/19 are almost bang-on).

The only usable defence if you're pulled is that you deployed it manually from the button, although it will drop down automatically at 80kph true if the car has been over 120kph whether you deployed it manually or not, so it is a giveaway if they know what they are looking at.


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## Hoggy (May 8, 2002)

Hi, They would have needed more proof than that, probably just wanted a closer look at TT.
Hoggy.


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## 12snowy (Dec 4, 2009)

The rear spoiler can be manually deployed ?


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

12snowy said:


> The rear spoiler can be manually deployed ?


There's a button in the centre console. It has a picture of a tit on it. It's the button you press when you want to look like a tit.


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## 12snowy (Dec 4, 2009)

wja96 said:


> 12snowy said:
> 
> 
> > The rear spoiler can be manually deployed ?
> ...


So... your saying that all RS drivers are tits as they have a permanent spoiler on the rear ?


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## TootRS (Apr 21, 2009)

It is absolutely irrelevant anyway because it is in no way proof of speeding. If anything it can only draw the rozzers' attention perhaps, but plenty of TTs have their spoilers up round town anyway. When did you last pass a TT on the motorway that didn't have an extended spoiler?



12snowy said:


> So... your saying that all RS drivers are tits as they have a permanent spoiler on the rear ?


And me, my TTS has a fixed wing (non-RS) :lol: :lol:


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## 12snowy (Dec 4, 2009)

toot3954 said:


> It is absolutely irrelevant anyway because it is in no way proof of speeding. If anything it can only draw the rozzers' attention perhaps, but plenty of TTs have their spoilers up round town anyway. When did you last pass a TT on the motorway that didn't have an extended spoiler?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well said.
Spoiler up does indicate you should get a fine for speeding.


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## Groodles (Apr 20, 2011)

Policeman to me: "I put it to you sir that you were driving in excess of the posted speed limit."

Me to Policeman: "I put it to you officer that your assumption is based on nothing but your own opinion. I'll also go so far to predict that you have nothing in the car you tailed me in to prove otherwise."

Policeman to me. "......... off you go then."

:lol:


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## MXS (May 10, 2010)

wja96 said:


> There's a button in the centre console. It has a picture of a tit on it. It's the button you press when you want to look like a tit.


PMSL... :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

12snowy said:


> So... your saying that all RS drivers are tits as they have a permanent spoiler on the rear ?


No, that's not what I said. If you had been following the whole "I get in and put my spoiler up" debate, you would have understood.

There are two schools of thought on this. On one side you have people who believe the TT is a thing of beauty and the designers made the spoiler come up only when necessary because it's just that, an ugly necessity to keep the car stable at speed. The TT-RS fixed spoiler is bigger because the TT-RS goes faster. I don't have a problem with that.

On the other side are the people who like to drive around town with the spoiler up, so they get in and pop it up. It's useless at that speed and just increases fuel consumption, but they insist on deploying it, because it makes them look... Well, you decide what it looks like


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## Pongo-Pilot (Jun 15, 2011)

MXS said:


> wja96 said:
> 
> 
> > There's a button in the centre console. It has a picture of a tit on it. It's the button you press when you want to look like a tit.
> ...


Me too!

A lot!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

Groodles said:


> Policeman to me: "I put it to you sir that you were driving in excess of the posted speed limit."
> 
> Me to Policeman: "I put it to you officer that your assumption is based on nothing but your own opinion. I'll also go so far to predict that you have nothing in the car you tailed me in to prove otherwise."
> 
> ...


Bloody hell you were lucky, that sort of failure of "the attitude test" is generally more likely to lumber you with some sort of paperwork 

Charlie


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## brittan (May 18, 2007)

So in that circumstance what reply would pass "the attitude test"?


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## Groodles (Apr 20, 2011)

Charlie said:


> Groodles said:
> 
> 
> > Policeman to me: "I put it to you sir that you were driving in excess of the posted speed limit."
> ...


Luck doesnt come into it.

If you're confident that your car is clean (all bulbs working, number plate normal, etc, etc) and you've varified that the car they pull you over in is NOT fitted with the specialist equipment for speed measurement, then the only reason the officer pulled you was to talk to you to ensure you are the owner (ie it's not stolen).

Once ownership has been clarified, anything else is just the officer giving you a hard time based on his own grievences and opinions.

If they pull you over for 'speeding' then they will show you the device/evidence/footage/etc. If they dont have that then they are just wasting their and your time.


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## stumardy (Oct 25, 2009)

12snowy said:


> wja96 said:
> 
> 
> > 12snowy said:
> ...


Yup looks like it. But thats not cos you have a fixed rear spoiler, it because you should of brought an M3 :lol: oh or a GTR :roll:


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## Boho (Jan 12, 2009)

Have only been pulled up once for speeding in the TT.

Once I put my window down, he puts his face in and says "now just cos you think drive a fancy sports car does not mean you are bloody allowed to drive friggin mach 5!!!!"

It wasn't for a raised spoiler but I wanted to share..wouldnt want to imagine what happens if I ever get my R35 GTR.


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

If you really want a big rear wing on your Audi, then here is one that is hard to beat :lol:



















Might be difficult to make it retractable though....


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## hugy (Dec 4, 2007)

Arne said:


> If you really want a big rear wing on your Audi, then here is one that is hard to beat :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now THATS what I call a spoiler


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

wja96 said:


> It's useless at that speed and just increases fuel consumption


Do you have any evidence to back up that statement, apart from the general assumption that things that disrupt airflow must increase drag and work?

I would go as far as suggesting that the spoiler improves fuel consumption (to an insignificant degree at low speeds), due to a more desirable air-flow going over the car.


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## steeve (Jul 8, 2010)

The fact that you had your spoiler up is not evidence of speeding.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

Just a symptom of it...


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## YoungOldUn (Apr 12, 2011)

Dash said:


> I would go as far as suggesting that the spoiler improves fuel consumption (to an insignificant degree at low speeds), due to a more desirable air-flow going over the car.


I have to disagree with this Dash, as the name implies it spoils the airflow or in other words diverts the airflow to create downforce. The act of diverting the airflow causes drag this is why on F1 cars they now have DRS which in efect reduces the incidence of the rear wing to reduce drag and increase speed.


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## Pongo-Pilot (Jun 15, 2011)

Dash, I have to agree.

[geek mode on]

This principle is employed on many aircraft - on the helicopter I fly it's used in 2 places - on the tail there's a "Gurney Flap" (Google Dan Gurney and you'll see his background was motorsport) on the horizontal stabilizer and along the tail boom itself there's a "strake" down one side. These are fixed items and do not move in flight. Their function is to change the airflow over the surface of whatever it is they are mounted on and, effectively, it changes the shape of it's host component which creates more lift. Clearly, the faster the airflow, the greater the lift force (Lift = CL ½p V² S where CL = Coefficient of Lift, p = air density, V = velocity, S = surface area).

On the retracting spoiler, the principle is exactly the same but only when the spoiler is extended, obviously. If the spoiler were always up then there would always be some aerodynamic benefit but, as you would expect, slower speeds would mean less benefit.

The fixed spoiler works on a different principle. Essentially, it's a wing in free air and causes a lift force by the airflow flowing under and over it (pressure differential). The shaping of the spoiler dictates the direction in which this lift force acts - clearly, on a car it's usually in the "down sense" to create downforce. On an aircraft wing, it would be up so that the lift acts in that direction to make the aircraft fly. Obviously, the fact that it is always there means it, too, is operating throughout the speed range.

[/geek mode off]

In summary, they both achieve a similar result using slightly different principles. It's a question of personal taste whether you like them or not. Personally? I agree with wja and can't imagine why you would want to deploy the retractable spoiler for purely aesthetic reasons; it's not that I think it's ugly but it does "spoil" the lines of a gorgeous rear end!


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## YoungOldUn (Apr 12, 2011)

Pongo-Pilot said:


> On the retracting spoiler, the principle is exactly the same but only when the spoiler is extended, obviously. If the spoiler were always up then there would always be some aerodynamic benefit but, as you would expect, slower speeds would mean less benefit.
> 
> The fixed spoiler works on a different principle. Essentially, it's a wing in free air and causes a lift force by the airflow flowing under and over it (pressure differential). The shaping of the spoiler dictates the direction in which this lift force acts - clearly, on a car it's usually in the "down sense" to create downforce. On an aircraft wing, it would be up so that the lift acts in that direction to make the aircraft fly. Obviously, the fact that it is always there means it, too, is operating throughout the speed range.


Spoilers whether fixed or retracted act as inverted aircraft wings, they are based on an inverted aerofoil section to create a low pressure zone on the underside and a high pressure zone above to create downforce.

All wings as well as creating lift (or in the case of a car downforce) create drag.

I will repeat what I stated earlier -

The act of diverting the airflow causes drag this is why on F1 cars they now have DRS which in efect reduces the incidence of the rear wing to reduce drag and increase speed.


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

I agree with everything said above and can't see how you could assume that the presence of a spoiler/wing cannot add any additional drag. Yes, it improves airflow and increases stability but will always add drag as there is always an additional cross-sectional area that is being resisted by air. If a single spoiler added no additional drag then 100 spoilers would have no additional drag which is clearly not the case! The increased air resistance they have has an effect whether at 1mph or 100mph.

[ubergeekmode]
Just for clarity Pongo-pilot, your markup is invalid and you should have closed with [/geek mode on] 
  
[/ubergeekmode]


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## Pongo-Pilot (Jun 15, 2011)

powerplay said:


> [ubergeekmode]
> Just for clarity Pongo-pilot, your markup is invalid and you should have closed with [/geek mode on]
> 
> [/ubergeekmode]


Damn . . . and I thought only I was that pedantic!! :wink:  Talking of which (again, "just for clarity") you should write "übergeekmode" or, if you can't create the umlaut (ALT+0252), then it's "uebergeekmode." 15 all?! :wink: :wink:

As far as the drag goes, then of course you'll get an increase! Lift & drag go hand in hand and, unsurprisingly, the formula will look familiar: Drag = CD ½p V² S. The point I was trying to make is that by adding a spoiler, you change the airflow and this _could_ result in marginally better efficiency as well as performance. [smiley=book2.gif]


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

I think it's worth pointing out that there is a significant difference between a Spoiler and a Wing (which YoungOldUn is referring to).

A wing is indeed like an upside-down aircraft wing and creates a low-pressure area below the wing forcing the wing down. This is of benefit to a car as it can grip better when travelling at speed, but at the cost of slipperyness which means the car needs to work more.

Spoilers on the other hand do not create down-force, it is an aerodynamic accessory to alter the flow of air (like air-dams under the car), generally they are used to counter the lift naturally produced by the shape of the car (especially on coupe's) which acts like an air-craft wing to lift the car off the road.

This does not necessarily equate to a increased drag and fuel consumption. In terms of the TT, it is most likely that the purpose of the spoiler is to adjust the flow of-air off the back of the boot. Turbulence causes drag, by cleaning this air and redirecting it you can reduce the turbulence and ipso facto, drag.

The optimum position for the spoiler would be permanently deployed (although as stated previously, aerodynamic benefits simply aren't there in a traffic jam). The only reason to put the spoiler down is for aesthetics - but that is down to personal taste. Some MK1'ers remove their rear spoilers for that smooth look, personally I think the spoiler looks good - I'd probably stick mine up permanently if I had a MK2 for the same reason.

The optional rear-wing on the other hand is less likely to have a positive effect on fuel as a wing is there to produce down-force (or again, even more likely, just to look snazzy and have zarro aerodynamic benefits).


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## YoungOldUn (Apr 12, 2011)

> The point I was trying to make is that by adding a spoiler, you change the airflow and this could result in marginally better efficiency as well as performance.


Now that you have clarified your point with the 'Could' word, I appreciate your point and know certain shapes do make a contribution to aerodynamic performance in specific circumstances. Examples are leading edge slats, vortex generators etc as used on aircraft, winglets as used on the front of F1 cars.

However in the case of a spoiler attached to the rear of a car irrespective of it being fixed or moveable, it is extremely unlikely to improve efficiency (MPG?) or performance (Speed?) as its main objective is to increase downforce and in doing so creates drag.

All of this is theoretical and in practise I doubt if there is any appreciable difference to the MPG or top speed whether a spoiler is extended or not on production TT's.


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## YoungOldUn (Apr 12, 2011)

Dash - just read your reply and it makes a lot of sense. Yes I am relating to a wing and I agree with your explanation of the difference between a wing and a spoiler. I just wish I knew if the bit on the back is designed to create downforce or to counter lift by changing the airflow.

I am now totally confused :? :?


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

Charlie said:


> Groodles said:
> 
> 
> > Policeman to me: "I put it to you sir that you were driving in excess of the posted speed limit."
> ...


Under what section of the police handbook does this "attitude test" come under so I can study it for future reference?


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## TTRS_500 (Aug 29, 2010)

stumardy said:


> 12snowy said:
> 
> 
> > wja96 said:
> ...


Why would I want a slow M3 or a Nissan that costs more to run than 3 porsche 911 turbos put together?


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## STTink (Jun 28, 2011)

This crops up quite a bit on the Porsche forums for Boxster owners. Mine comes up at about 75 mph which is an indication of speeding, however, we also have a manual button also.
I've never heard of anyone being pulled over with the notion they were speeding because the spoiler was up.

If you get caught speeding you'll find its highly likely the police have other proof that you were speeding, as i've not heard of any speeding violations where the ticket had "His spoiler was up" written on it.


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## newt (May 12, 2002)

I would be surprised that the police even know or care what speed it operates.


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## mixonic2 (Jul 13, 2011)

Im picking my TT Mk2 (09) this weekend. Do all TTs have this auto spoiler.


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

Well said Dash [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


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## wja96 (Mar 4, 2010)

mixonic2 said:


> Im picking my TT Mk2 (09) this weekend. Do all TTs have this auto spoiler.


Yes, unless they have a fixed rear spoiler. Fixed rear spoiler is available on TT-RS as a no-cost option or as a dealer-fit accessory on other models. And for the pedants, I am aware that the TT-RS spoiler is not the same as the one in the dealer-fit kit.


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## Pensive666 (Jun 18, 2011)

They can't give you a ticket because you're spoiler inferred your speed. They have thousands of pounds worth of gear in their car to prove that, or their experienced opinion holds a lot more weight in court. Non issue, but I'll ask my mate (a copper).


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## AdamA9 (Jul 8, 2011)

Unrelated, but didn't want to start a new post. My rear spoiler got stuck up yesterday. Car only had 100 miles on it, it wouldn't go down even with pushing the button - any ideas?


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2006)

It's a well know fault - and probabely caused by lack of proper lubrication.

You might try to fix it yourself, by adding some proper lubrication (use something that will stay there over time) on the mechanisme and get someone to gently push the spoiler down at the same time as you activate the button.

The other option is to visit the dealer for them to do the same thing.

It might offcourse be another reason for why your spoiler is stuck, but I would try the above before I visited the dealer.


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## Charlie (Dec 15, 2006)

TTRS_500 said:


> Under what section of the police handbook does this "attitude test" come under so I can study it for future reference?


 :roll: :roll: It's under the section called "Police Officers are human too" (well some of them anyway )

let's face it if you as a Police Officer stop someone and they get out of the car and greet you in a pleasant fashion are you more or less likely to give them a "ticket" for a minor infraction? If the same stop results in the driver sitting in their car and being arrogant, rude and aggressive towards you, I put it to you that you are more likely to carry on and issue said "ticket"

When I was a copper we were told that our greatest power was that of discretion (it seems that has changed since I left)

Charlie


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## phillywilly (Feb 24, 2011)

Charlie said:


> TTRS_500 said:
> 
> 
> > Under what section of the police handbook does this "attitude test" come under so I can study it for future reference?
> ...


charlie discreet !!! NEVER    :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## TWH (Aug 25, 2010)

YoungOldUn said:


> Dash - just read your reply and it makes a lot of sense. Yes I am relating to a wing and I agree with your explanation of the difference between a wing and a spoiler. I just wish I knew if the bit on the back is designed to create downforce or to counter lift by changing the airflow.
> 
> I am now totally confused :? :?


The spoiler on the TT will not create any appreciable down-force, the shape of it isn't correct for that as it's not aerofoil shaped. It will create a tiny bit of down-force simply due to the angle of the wing, but it is just there as a spoiler to negate the aerofoil effect of the car itself and so cancel the up-force if you like.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

All this said about it being good for fuel, I just saw a red TTS roadster go past in traffic with it up, and it did look a bit silly.

I think probably because it's so small, and does look a bit like an after-thought when it's deployed.


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## newt (May 12, 2002)

I think the manual up function should be inhibited to stop folk raising the spoiler at low speeds, it looks so silly. The manual down function should of course be retained.


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## Dash (Oct 5, 2008)

I fully appreciate people wanting to deploy it at lower speeds - adjustable speed via vagcom would be perfect. Then you can set it to go up over, say 40mph, and then retract under 15mph.


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## TWH (Aug 25, 2010)

I did notice the other day (on a private track of course!  ) that the manual down function doesn't seem to work when above the 78MPH that causes it to go up automatically. Bit annoying really, but seems it can only be used to lower the spoiler below the activation speed.

Anyone else found this?


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## phil3012 (Jul 25, 2008)

TWH said:


> I did notice the other day (on a private track of course!  ) that the manual down function doesn't seem to work when above the 78MPH that causes it to go up automatically. Bit annoying really, but seems it can only be used to lower the spoiler below the activation speed.
> 
> Anyone else found this?


Yes, although I'm sure it did used to work before.

I was wondering if there was a change to the settings at some point when my cars been in.


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## newt (May 12, 2002)

The spoiler comes up at 78 this can not be changed that's why the manual button does not work below that speed.


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