# Soft Top Cannot be Used



## tumchiehead (Feb 14, 2012)

Got this message on the dash after I had to replace the car battery, any help appreciated.


----------



## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

These conditions can often trigger this fault -

1. Operating the top with the engine off due to a low voltage condition.
2. Roof Flap Servos are failing.

If you don't have an OBDII device* then you will have to visit a shop that has one to clear the Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC). To save yourself the cost of a new Roof Flap Servo, it's recommended to do the Roof Flap Servo R&R yourself (see link below) and then take it in and they can run the Adaption and clear the DTC.

*_Only Ross Tech VCDS has the ability to perform the Roof Adaptation. OBDeleven, Carista and other similar OBDII scanners do not have this feature. _

NOTE - Never attempt to force the Roof Flap up or down with the link arm still connected or you risk breaking the servo. When manually operating the top, be sure the servo arm links have been disconnected and secured so they don't get damaged.

These links to the Knowledge Base should help -

*FAQ - Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Roadster Common Questions Answered*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1813290

*How To: - Audi TT (8J) Manually Closing the Convertible Top*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1347177

*How to: - Audi TT Mk2 (8J) Convertible Top Flap Servo R&R*
https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &t=1786641

One thing you can try, it's worked for me, is to turn the key to the first position (Accessory, not Ignition) and manually open and close the top. This allows the Control Module to register all the expected sensors except the Roof Flap Servo. Once the top is closed and secured, close the hydraulic valve, start the car and attempt to cycle the top normally. If it works, then reconnect the servo arm links to the roof flap. Be aware if a DTC has been logged, this procedure will NOT clear the fault.

From *Self Study Program 391* - (check the PDF attachment)

_If a faulty actuator or a sensor is identified or if the signals from the sensors are not received in time, the control unit stops the convertible top operating cycle. A fault is stored in the fault memory. In addition, the control unit monitors the operating time of the convertible top. In order to avoid overloading the hydraulic pump, the convertible top operation control unit J256 deactivates the convertible top after approx. three minutes,provided that the convertible top is closed.

The convertible top can be operated again until a time-out of approx. ten minutes has expired. If the convertible top does not meet the "closed" condition after approx. four minutes of continuous operation, the control unit stops the convertible top operating cycle immediately. The convertible top cannot be operated again until a 20 minute time-out has expired. The actuation time of the convertible top lock motor is also used for monitoring the operating time of the convertible top._

View attachment SSP 391 Audi TT Roadster.pdf


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 20, 2016)

I've just had the same thing, roof went down fine but then failed to come back up. Wife panicked and went to the dealers, who kindly manually put the roof back up. Then they said it 'could' be the roof motor £2000

So a bit of Google, a new battery, and VCDS.

I changed the battery because a few things I'd read turned out to be battery related, since I didn't know how old it was and I had a few starting issues over the winter I thought I'd replace it.

Plugged in VCDS and two fault codes were logged on Auto roof. A low voltage, and implausible signal on left hand flap (passenger side).

I cleared these, and then selected the convertable flap initialisation after pressing start using the hood button you are basically single stepping the roof through the hood down and then up. So you keep on pressing the button as the roof goes through each stage. Then once fully down, windows are up.start to bring the hood up again stepping it through making sure that everything is doing what it should. VCDS will tell you once it's complete. Press done.

I found this guys video on you tube, which was very helpful






Here is VCDS Steps Adaptation

When performing repairs/replacement of the Flap Motors it will be necessary to perform the Adaption of the Flap Motors.

Ref: TSB 61-09-02 or 2018777 for NAR (North American Region) vehicles.
The faults associated with the bulletins include: 02000, 03246, and 03247.

After diagnosis and repairs per TPI 2015779 (Convertible top adjustment options) perform the following Output Test:

[Select]
[26 - Auto Roof]
[Output Tests - 03]
[Select] Selective Output Tests
[Choose]Convertible Top Flap Initialisation 
[Start]
Operate the Convertible Top throughout a complete Open/Close sequence BEFORE exiting the Output Test function.
[Done, Go Back]
[Close Controller, Go Back - 06]


----------



## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

@ *[email protected]* - You just have to love Audi dealerships.  However, clearing the DTC's doesn't make the problem go away, it just clears the errors. The implausible signal on left hand flap means there's something wrong it it, most likely grease on the contacts. Open up the Roof Flap Servos and give them a good cleaning.


----------



## tumchiehead (Feb 14, 2012)

had a few issues with this roof, had to replace the flap servo's a few years ago.
How much would VCDS cost and what would I need to purchase?


----------



## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

The least expensive HEX-V2 goes for around $200 (US). You can either buy directly from Ross Tech or go through an online reseller. I bought mine off Amazon.de (Germany) without any problems.

Just be careful you don't get a Chinese clone. There are any number knock-offs out there on the market on Amazon and eBay.

Ross-Tech: Home


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 20, 2016)

You could try looking in the vagcom / VCDS users stickie thread to see if anyone's near you?


----------



## tumchiehead (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanx, I bought one from Ross-tech UK distributors, should get it in a few days, then the fun will start. Plenty good info on here so hopefully I'll be able to resolve the issue, Dealership prices are getting ridiculous now :x


----------



## famdoctor (Sep 23, 2020)

Okay Gentlemen - this is no humbug.
The roof on my 2012 TTS quit working all together the other day - with error message something like "Soft top can not operate."
Long story short I learned all about the little servo motors and how they can fail...and how an unscrupulous mechanic might charge to replace them unnecessarily...
Then learned about the various diagnostic code readers / re-setters as well as the complicated process of walking the mechanism manually through a cycle to reset all the sensors ...and was just about to grab a cup of coffee and a screw driver 
when I thought, "WTH - looks like clickbait but I've got 2 minutes to kill..."






Oh, Oh, Oh - say what?

This is going to work I said to myself.
And it did.
30 seconds later it was fixed!

I'm so tickled I want to send this guy $100.


----------



## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

@ *famdoctor* - Sorry, but I'm calling bullsh*t on that one. 

First, the potentiometer in the servo doesn't "oxidize" from sitting. If that were true, every servo in the HVAC would quit too since the design is exactly the same. The fault is caused by the migration of grease from the gears onto the potentiometer PCB and potentiometer copper contacts or "fingers" located in the primary gear. That's what causes the fault. It's well known and well documented.

Second, "wiggling" the servo flap isn't going to move anything, let alone the potentiometer and it's certainly not going to remove "oxidization". There are four gears involved in the servo drive system; starting with the large grey primary gear which has the potentiometer wipers (fingers) on it - this one moves the flap arm. Force the arm, and you risk breaking something.

And finally, odds are you might have just gotten lucky this time and the potentiometer was getting an intermittent reading that stopped the roof from operating, but didn't trigger a fault.

Take my advice - before you try the "wiggle" method again and risk breaking a perfectly good servo, you may want to open up your servos and get the grease out first. Because when they do fail and you trigger a fault, you'll want to save that $100 and put it towards a Ross Tech VCDS to clear the G596 or G597 fault codes and perform a Roof Adaptation.









FAQ - Mk2 Roadster Convertible Measurement Blocks, Fault...


Section 1 - Convertible Top Fault Codes - When the roof fails to operate properly, it will require an OBDII scan device such as a Ross-Tech VCDS or OBD-dongle device; (e.g. OBDeleven, Carista, etc.) in order to identify the DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) and affected components. Since fault...




www.ttforum.co.uk





If you do open the servo up and find grease all over the potentiometer and not "oxide", you can donate that $100 to the Forum beer fund. 

I will agree with one statement he made, "_NOTHING BEATS A QUALIFIED REPAIR SHOP_" and he clearly demonstrated he's not one of them.

Here's my favorite comedy top fix from another person who doesn't have a clue about how Audi TT convertible tops work; "There was too much pressure on the pump... " LOL!






















*Fundamentals of the Roof Flap Servo - *

The Roof Flap Servo is nothing more than a motor, a potentiometer and a set of gears that drives the ball link arm to move the Roof Flap up and down. The during operation, the wipers move around the PCB resistance track, resulting in a variable voltage signal which is picked up by the Control Unit to let it "know" if the Roof Flap is up or down. If that signal is out of the expected range, a DTC is logged, the center console switch is locked out and the top stops working.

The motor has a metal worm gear which engages a pinion gear. The pinion gear shares a common nylon shaft with a larger worm gear which drives the grey contact gear (contact wipers are on the opposite side). The contact gear serves two functions; (a) it rotates the arm where the ball link is connected which in turn, moves the Roof Flap up and down (b) it has the copper wipers for the potentiometer which during rotation, move around the resistive track. The variable resistance of the potentiometer provides a signal to the control unit to let the system know if the flap is up or down.


----------



## nkellagher (Dec 28, 2019)

Thanks to everyone on this forum - and other places for lots of helpful information
I have managed to succesfully reset the soft top roof on my Audi TT Mk 2; it was not opening or closing properly

The sequence I followed was
I opened the roof completely
Started the close process to get the flaps open (servos are working fine)
Switched ignition to accessories
Opened the hydraulic valve in the boot
Manually closed the roof
Closed the valve in the boot
Started the engine
Cycled the roof three times
Works perfectly
Thanks all

here is a useful video on doing this single handed


----------



## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

@ *nkellagher* - Unfortunately the process you've described won't reset anything if a DTC is present. Only an OBDII device; (e.g VCDS, OBDeleven, Carista, etc.) can clear a DTC. However in the event of a DTC for the roof flap servo, it requires a VCDS Adaptation as the DTCs won't go away by just clearing them. I will grant you there are a cases where this can work (e.g. interrupted signal during operation, top stopped working due to a low battery, etc.)

The Roof Flap Servo issue is due to grease on the contacts. The movement of the potentiometer simply moves the grease around which can cause a variable value which is either in or out of spec depending on the amount of grease that's built up between the PCB resistance track and the wipers. Opening and closing the top two, three or a dozen times, does nothing more than smear the grease around the contact points. You might get lucky and get a less contaminated spot on the circuit board, but odds are it will happen again unless the grease is removed.

As long as the grease remains on the circuit board and contacts, it will continue to be a problem. This is why the Roof Flap Servos should be be opened up and the grease removed from the circuit board and contact wipers, followed by a VCDS Adaptation to reset the controller and clear the DTC.


----------



## Pe12ksy (Jul 7, 2021)

famdoctor said:


> Okay Gentlemen - this is no humbug.
> The roof on my 2012 TTS quit working all together the other day - with error message something like "Soft top can not operate."
> Long story short I learned all about the little servo motors and how they can fail...and how an unscrupulous mechanic might charge to replace them unnecessarily...
> Then learned about the various diagnostic code readers / re-setters as well as the complicated process of walking the mechanism manually through a cycle to reset all the sensors ...and was just about to grab a cup of coffee and a screw driver
> ...


----------



## Pvcs (Nov 9, 2014)

famdoctor said:


> Okay Gentlemen - this is no humbug.
> The roof on my 2012 TTS quit working all together the other day - with error message something like "Soft top can not operate."
> Long story short I learned all about the little servo motors and how they can fail...and how an unscrupulous mechanic might charge to replace them unnecessarily...
> Then learned about the various diagnostic code readers / re-setters as well as the complicated process of walking the mechanism manually through a cycle to reset all the sensors ...and was just about to grab a cup of coffee and a screw driver
> ...


I can’t believe it, but this worked 😎


----------



## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

@ *Pe12ksy & Pvcs* - The roof flap "wiggle" method shown in the YouTube video is not a proven solution and may actually lead to someone unintentionally damaging the flap, the link arm or the servo. The person who made that video clearly does not have the faintest clue about how the Mk2 TT roof flaps works, let alone the mechanics inside the servo or fault codes and/or Adaptations.

If someone tries this method and gets too aggressive trying to force the flap, they could do some serious damage to the link arm, connection points on the flap or servo motor arm and end up breaking an otherwise perfectly good servo. And they're not cheap at 120 Euro each.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that if you actually did try the "wiggle" method and it worked you probably got lucky. But as I commented in the post, I would highly recommend that you open up the servos and remove the grease to prevent the problem from happening.

Keep in mind if you do get a roof flap servo DTC, you'll need a Ross Tech VCDS (200 Euro) or a trip to a Service Center to run the Adaptation. However, if you remove the grease it before a fault is registered, then you don't have to worry about a DTC or an Adaptation as the servos and top will work just fine.


----------



## slowtomo (Jul 10, 2010)

I find this all a bit confusing and get lost in the jargon I had the same message the other day ‘soft top cannot be used etc’ as the roof failed to operate. The engine was off. I went for a short drive and stopped and then the roof worked but did not complete the cycle (windows didn’t go up and the rooftop dash light stayed on) I tried it again and all worked and it’s been ok since. However, before this on a few occasions the roof has stopped halfway when closing but then started again. I have not had any dash warning/fault lights. 
I’m thinking the servos may need the grease service doing which I am capable of but don’t understand anything about the VCDS and adaption thing which is beyond my skill/equipment level. 
HERE’S THE QUESTION-If I just service the servos and put them back in before I get a fault code, will I need to do any kind of code reset or adaption after I reinstall? Thanks.


----------



## SwissJetPilot (Apr 27, 2014)

If you don't have a fault code and the roof still works sporatically, you can clean the servos without an Adaptation.
If you do have a fault, you'll need VCSD for the Adaptation.

You should be able to find a fault using an OBDeleven, but you can't use it for the Adaptation if needed. Only VCDS has this capability.

One trick that sometimes works is to perform a manual open/close with the ignition on (without the engine running) as this will trigger all the sensors. This way the ECU sees the trigger points in the operational cycle. When you do this, don't touch the roof flaps as they can NOT be operated manually.

Once you've done this, reconnect the flaps and see if the roof operates normally (automatically).


----------



## slowtomo (Jul 10, 2010)

Thanks for the reply SwissJetPilot.


----------

