# 911 (996), Maserati Coupe or Lexus SC430??



## mcgus (Jun 10, 2003)

Okay, I expect to get some interesting replies to this one but help me!

I currently own a TTR225 and a Lexus RX300. For some wild reason, largely based around the fact that we don't need/can't justify two cars at present (only put on 3000miles on the TT last year) we are toying with swapping both and having a year of fun. We are down to the above three. All different I know.

Porsche: Likes - drivability, name, looks (yes, still even now after all these years). Dislikes - everyone seems to have one, interior.

Maserati: Like - image, luxurious interior, cambiocorsa drive train, 4 reasonable seats, looks. Dislikes - still have concerns about reliability as this is going to be the only car in the family for a while.

Lexus: Like - known quantity, reliability, dealers, luxurious interior and all the gadgets you can shake a leg at, looks in a quirky way, exclusivity (very few on the road), metal roof. Dislikes - reports of soggy driving persist - it ain't no sports car.

So, what's my question?! I can't make up my mind. Originally I was certain we'd go the 911 route but the Lexus has come up on the outside and seems a great all round package providing luxury, exclusivity, reasonably speed albeit not track day stuff and still allows open top cruising..............someone tell me I'm mad :?

Does anyone have any experience of these cars and feel kind enough to share thoughts? or anyone for that matter!


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## Carlos (May 6, 2002)

Lexus SC430 

Daihatsu copen has similar awful looks and is a lot cheaper :wink:

http://daihatsu-copen.sgpetch.co.uk/

My vote would be the 911. Imaginative I know, but I've always dreamed of owning one. Hopefully I will one day.


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

Carlos said:


> Lexus SC430
> 
> Daihatsu copen has similar awful looks and is a lot cheaper :wink:
> 
> ...


i like the SC430 (on looks i have never driven) 8) 
one have you thought about resale value if you are only going to keep it for a year on this score the porker would be the best i should think


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

Everyone on here comes in their pants during the first sylable of the word "Porsche", although I don't truly understand it myself.

The Lexus is blighted by all sorts of press reports about how awful it is to drive, but you'd need to get behind the wheel and try it out for yourself.

Personally I'd take the Maser, but with a warranty or some serious wedge set aside for running costs. Maser owners on here have reported quite high bills... :?


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## YELLOW_TT (Feb 25, 2004)

jampott said:


> Everyone on here comes in their pants during the first sylable of the word "Porsche", although I don't truly understand it myself.


with you on that one what is the big deal


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## jonno (May 7, 2002)

996 all the way - between those 3 its no contest.


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## John C (Jul 5, 2002)

Hi Angus - long time no see!

I had a good (sorry long) test drive of the SC430. In a word, crap. The 4.3 V8 is silky smooth and powerful but it is a straight line cruiser and no way a sports car. That said Lexus acknowledge this and do not sell it on its handling. The scuttle shake is truly awful. Ask Ian or Simon at Lexus Edin for one for the day I am sure they will oblige. I also feel it is dated inside compared to the other Lexus range at the mo. Our new RX400h just feels so up to date. Had you thought about the GS450h? Saloon granted, but performance is off the scale. Rumour has it that they are currently de-tuning it so the 0-60 comes in OVER 5 seconds. Certainly the Hybrid driving experience is a fun one!

However back to our conversation we had last year I guess you have to go for the 911. As discussed - every true petrol head has to have one sometime in their lifetime!

Hope you are well and catch up sometime. Must get out for a pint and introduce you to Saint and Brett.

Cheers

John


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## David_A (May 7, 2002)

Easy answer ! 

Yup the older 3200s are more likely to have bills (if you don't get a warranty) the new ones have relativly cheap running costs for a maser.

Dave


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## Monique (Jun 11, 2002)

FWIW, I'd ... if a newish Porsche is in the cards, I would spring the extra loot on a 996 GT3. Much faster than your selections, the engine is a real dry sumper based on a racing block. All the normal comforts but far beyond the capabilities of your other suggestions.

Your moolah!!


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## jampott (Sep 6, 2003)

> As discussed - every true petrol head has to have one sometime in their lifetime!


Why does everyone feel the need to bring out this same tired old bollocks every time?


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## scavenger (Jun 25, 2002)

mcgus said:


> we are toying with swapping both and having a year of fun...


Then buy a fun car, eg:

Exige, Lotus 340R, DAX Cobra, Ferrari etc etc

Your choices don't fall into my fun category :roll:


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## John C (Jul 5, 2002)

jampott said:


> > As discussed - every true petrol head has to have one sometime in their lifetime!
> 
> 
> Why does everyone feel the need to bring out this same tired old bollocks every time?


Because it is how I feel - public forum and all that. Guess I am a 'same tired old bollox' kinda guy because I really feel I _have _to have a 911 sometime - I regard it as a classic. Now the 997 is out in 4s model it is becoming very tempting for my next car. Drove the 996 4s but just felt I was sitting on it rather than in it. The 997 with the slightly lower seats just feels like you are really sitting 'in' it.

Also I was recounting an actual conversation McGus and I had last year at the Birmingham Motor show and one which we both had a laugh about and agreed - it is just one of those things you have to do.

Hence - need.

 :wink:


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## mab (Sep 2, 2002)

Don't particularly like the looks of the Lexus and, as has been said, it is far from a fun and sporty drive. You do get a hardtop convertible though, which I assume is a big tick in a box.

As for the 996, I love mine and feel similar to what other people have said in that it is a car that I had to own at some point. It has everything I wanted except that the interior is nowhere near as good as a TT for example, although was better imo than the 355, and with a couple of tweaks can actually be made look quite nice.

I like the looks of the old Maserasti 3200 with the crazy rear lights, but since that model I don't think they stand out all that much. While the interiors are excellent I have never driven one so am not in a position to comment on that, but would definitely worry about servicing/running costs and would suggest looking into that first.

Finally, I had my 355 for approximately 9 months (bought just after winter, sold just before winter) and I ended up getting Â£1250 less back for it that I bought it for. There were some bizarre circumstances surrounding this, but even without these circumstances I would have got only Â£2500 less back. Definitely something to think about if you're looking for something fun to drive that stands out.


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## Monique (Jun 11, 2002)

[/quote]...Now the 997 is out in 4s model it is becoming very tempting for my next car. Drove the 996 4s but just felt I was sitting on it rather than in it. The 997 with the slightly lower seats just feels like you are really sitting 'in' it.

:[/quote]

You should try out a RWD S before a 4S. Livelier car, less weight etc. I think you'd like it more... for less money. AWD is for Audi TTs... cars your grandmother could drive fast. [smiley=smash.gif]

Ooops.. flame suit on... :lol:


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## mab (Sep 2, 2002)

Monique said:


> You should try out a RWD S before a 4S. Livelier car, less weight etc. I think you'd like it more... for less money. AWD is for Audi TTs... cars your grandmother could drive fast. [smiley=smash.gif]
> 
> Ooops.. flame suit on... :lol:


I agree. The AWD allows you to throw the back end out a comfortable amount from my perspective whereas RWD has taken me by surprise a few times when driving in the wet. Overall the AWD is for a less accomplished "throw the car around" driver... which I am. 

Oh, and not seen the 997 4S yet, but if it is the same principle as te 996 model where it comes with the fancy bodykit then it should be rather mean and sporty looking.


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## mcgus (Jun 10, 2003)

yikes, I thought this might provoke some discussion :roll: Thanks for all the replies so far.....

Okay, going from the start -perhaps my describing needs as "fun" sqews the picture a bit - bottom line is it has to please the financial controller, namely my nearest and dearest. And after four years of Lexus luxury in RX's (2 to date) and the TT I have a difficulty in persuading her to accept that the 911 performance outweighs the diabolical interiors that Porsche are so keen on 

That's where the Maser and the SC win over against the Porsche.

so specifically,

Yellow TT - I reckon we'll keep the car a couple of years max but will probably get something like a Scooby 5 door Imprezza for the practical stuff next year some time.

I think I may be getting over the "must have a 911" phase to some extent - budget is going to be limited to around 40k so that rules out the GT3 option (It also has to be a feasible practical everyday car hence a 4 is out as there is much less boot space) so sorry Monique (a pal is looking at GT3s at the moment so may get a ride one day!). With that budget I'd also be looking at an older, higher mileage 996 although hopefully still the facelift version.

Scavanger - I agree completely. I'd plump for an Elise I guess but it ain't going to wash as an argument!

John I'm going to PM you to ask if I can give you a ring if you can let me have a number to call? Hope you're enjoying the 400... I know what we said last year at the show about the 911 and I certainly haven't forgotten. Its just that the budget will allow for a younger, lower mileage Maser or SC.

So, where are we?!?! :roll: :?

maybe I should redefine priorities!?

Prestige (for which read you ain't seeing them all over the place on the road!)
luxury
reliability
practicality
speed
track day driveability!!

in that sort of order - anyway, going to take out the Sc on Saturday for the day and hope to get a shot in a Maser and 911 on Monday.....will await further comments :wink:


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## Monique (Jun 11, 2002)

Hello mcgus,

If you consider a 996, or Boxster, you must know their biggest weakness.. surprizingly for a Porsche, it is the engine!!

All the newer watercoolers are derived from the same Japanese design which transformed the way P engines are built. They are optimized for large production runs.. so many components are press fitted with few replaceable parts.

There have been many RMS (Rear Main Seal) failures. The best failure (???) is to replace the seal only. The worst means engine replacement. OUCH!!! GBP +++ (From a poll in a US based P forum, 44 % of the 996 engines have had an RMS leak, 8 % had repeated leaks and 2 % required engine change)(www.rennlist.com) Even if the poll is skewed, the data is sobering at least  

SOOO, unless you get a long warranty period, be careful. The worst engines were the early 3.4s but there are RMS failures reported on the new 997. So Porsche has not fixed the problem... since 1998.

The exceptions are the 996 GT2, 996 GT3 and the 996 TT. Coz the basic block came from the aircooled dry sump 964.... there goes progress. :lol: :lol:

Good luck


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## thejepster (Mar 29, 2005)

For 40k you're looking at a very nice Maser... 

Or any one of the following for the luxury... 
- 1999 DB7
- 53 XKR / 04 XK8 conv
- 02 Merc SL500
- 02 CL55 AMG

For the rarity...
- 01 Honda NSX

Or for the performance...
- Any TreVoR...

Depending on how good an Aston you can find, I'd be tempted with that... 

**Edit, forgot the Merc's.... :roll: **


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## garyc (May 7, 2002)

jampott said:


> > As discussed - every true petrol head has to have one sometime in their lifetime!
> 
> 
> Why does everyone feel the need to bring out this same tired old bollocks every time?


Possibly for the exact same reason that other folk, who clearly have little or no Porsche driving experience, or have not witnessed first hand a 911s stunning road/track capability in right hands, tend to come out with trite comments such as yours. :wink:


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## galwaytt (May 15, 2003)

jonno said:


> 996 all the way - between those 3 its no contest.


..let me rephrase that: "between those 3 its no contest", and leave out the 996.........unless you're going for a post 02 996, I'd avoid unless you have a 100% bumper-bumper warranty. On everything. I saw on 02 C4 Cab drop it's entire guts on our car park a while ago. What do you expect for Eur118k, anyway? :?

SC430. If it's like other 'Lexii'.....the only problem you'll have is depreciation, the car is fine, although not strictly a 'sports' car. As a 'GT' it's good. Well, for two anyway!!

The Maserati's look stunning. With a good warranty, can't see you doing any worse than the 996 anyway. Also distinctly more exclusive.

No way you could stretch to an Aston for a while? I think they earned their place on that list.


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## mcgus (Jun 10, 2003)

thanks to everyone for their thoughts (and John for the call!).

I've got lined up an all day test in the Lexus for Saturday followed by a one hour accompanied test drive on Monday morning in a Maser Grand Sport (do they still believe that these things sell themselves :? I said I wanted to try a Coupe but apparantly that means putting dealer plates on their one and only 2nd hand one they have in stock so why not try the GS sir?) and then a shot in a 911 (996 targa) on Monday afternoon.

so far everything is going as expected = Lexus customer service superb (but they know me I suppose from our two so far), Maser very iffy and Porsche were actually very accomodating on the phone so lets see! I'll keep this post going and report back!

Re DB7 - had thought about it but there are very few about. The XKR likewise - had thought about it and yes they are about but I just can't get excited by the car!!


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## mcgus (Jun 10, 2003)

Thank you to everyone for their input and contributions! As expected I got very differing thoughts and, as expected, some fairly strident views!

We've had a great weekend of driving some fantastic cars.

On Saturday we spent the whole morning and some of the afternoon in the Lexus driving down and around Peebles in the Borders of Scotland. On Monday we drove a Maserati Gransport and a Carrera 4.

Thoughts on the experience?

Lexus - superbly appointed car lacking for nothing at all. The drive is a bit soft when pushed hard and there is some understeer going into corners. However, the drive was no where near as bad as I had been lead to believe by some of the reviews I had read and in summary the experience was much more pleasurable than I had anticipated. The roof is amazing and having the best of both hard top and convertible was a very appealing proposition. The Sat Nav is the best I have come across.

Maserati - in a word **&"&!! amazing  The paddle shift gear change is veeeeeeery sweet and the power coming out of the 400bhp along with the soound is sooooo seductive. Did I like it? Did I bleep [smiley=mexicanwave.gif] - 4 decent seats, an understated look, sumptuous interior, and a heritage to die for......

Porsche - exactly what we expected, no more no less. Did everything just perfect. smooth tiptronic gear box. Sod all room in back seats which despite my efforts to persuade myself and more importantly my wife, meant that it was out of the equation. Interestingly, we both agreed that it was the only car of the three that we could instantly feel comfortable in terms of driving....the seat postion, the feedback through the wheel and the power delivery all felt remarkably like the TT in many ways, just quicker (but, it has to be said, it didn't feel that much quicker John! and with you and your chipped TT I reckon you might have to rethink your desire to get one!).

So, down to the Maserati and the Lexus.......

Well, the Lexus won. Why? Reliability, practicality and our experiences of the Lexus brand to date all meant that to be honest I was prepared to compromise on the performance side in recognition of all the other boxes it ticked.

Do I think we did the right thing? Yes, I'd love a Maserati and were we not able to get the right deal with our friends at Lexus (Ian?!) my wife and I would happily have gone straight back to the Maserati dealers.

I have to add that I think that the Lexus dealers (well Edinburgh) are excellent in the extreme and hopefully their willingness to do the deal has meant we are all happy.

So on Saturday I pick up a very nice Silver and black 6 month old ex-demo and sadly say goodbye to our TT. It has been a great experience with the TT but I think we are doing the right thing in changing it now.


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## David_A (May 7, 2002)

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

ach well each to their own 

If you're doing the lexus on finance - make sure it has a get out clause :wink:

Dave


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## r1 (Oct 31, 2002)

Oops too late on this.

I've had both a Maser and a Porsche but seeing as they're no longer in the frame I won't say a word. 

but when you change buy a 996!!


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## mcgus (Jun 10, 2003)

> but when you change buy a 996!!


lol!


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## John C (Jul 5, 2002)

Well Angus there you go - another Lex in the bag. Well done that man for not bowing to public pressure and being a bit different. As we discussed the SC430 I drove was pre suspension upgrade and did have the run flat tyres both of which apparently made the handling much worse. Also as you said yourself it is a GT and not a track day car so the compromise you expect it the compromise you get.

I must also admit that the service form Lexus Edinburgh is second to none and for piece of mind you would struggle to do better. You sound like you also have a great deal for our discussion last night. I am sure Simon's sales figures are good this month but not his margin!!!

Enjoy and I am sure you will have an equally pleasing dilemma in a couple of years. Fancy going halfers on an Atom?

Looks like my R9 will be the next tough decision........

See you Friday

John


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