# Stage 2 tuning



## Matty2023 (Jun 12, 2015)

Hi people I currently running stage 1 apr with a panel filter im very happy with it,i will going to stage 2 i was thinking a full milltek exhaust with sports cat,down pipe,and a induction kit,will this be stage 2 or 3 and has anyone done this thanks


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## Aden (Mar 3, 2012)

As far as I understand, that would be a stage 2.

If you have a TFSI engine, there is also a Stage 2+ offered which includes a rebuilt and higher pressure fuel pump.

Stage 3 involves upgrading the turbo (and manifolds too possibly).

I'm sure someone will be along to clarify shortly but I think that is correct.


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## Matty2023 (Jun 12, 2015)

Ok thanks ill see whats comes up


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## Matty2023 (Jun 12, 2015)

Yeah its the mk2 2.0 tfsi


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## Yesj (Nov 12, 2014)

A stage is just a name for a tuner. So also different for every tuner.

What kind of hp are you thinking of?
The most obvious choises are:

Stage 1 chip (no hardware changes) 240-250hp.
stage 2: beste value, remove cat from the downpipe and a tuning airfilter or a cold air intake 280-290hp and 410nm (good tuner)
if you want real power gain above stage 2 you need a other turbo and bigger exhaust. Below 300hp stage 2 with cheap mods are good enough.

Picture is a custom remap with downpipe cat mod.


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## Richings (Feb 18, 2014)

I've had a new exhaust system put on, cobra non res with custom made decat. It has also been remapped with a Bluefin device. Would this kind of device be suitable/sensible? Or do you think I could get more power out of a custom made remap?


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## Matty2023 (Jun 12, 2015)

Thanks,i think stage 2 will do me,i take it the wont pass an mot when you remove the cat,so if i did this with a induction kit i could use apr's stage 2 map


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## Yesj (Nov 12, 2014)

Richings said:


> I've had a new exhaust system put on, cobra non res with custom made decat. It has also been remapped with a Bluefin device. Would this kind of device be suitable/sensible? Or do you think I could get more power out of a custom made remap?


The catback won't make a lot of difference with a custom remap, but a downpipe without a cat will. A custom remap on a dyno will always be the best. I've seen some bad tuning on dyno's. Those hp lines are not the ones you want.

Below a picture of a bad tuner with only 275hp from a tts engine and a good tuner that has far more better curves and 330hp.












Matty2023 said:


> Thanks,i think stage 2 will do me,i take it the wont pass an mot when you remove the cat,so if i did this with a induction kit i could use apr's stage 2 map


Why wont you pass mot with the little cat removed from your downpipe? Thats the same if you buy a bigger downpipe without cat what everyone does (waste of money) that adds 20hp and less turbo lagg. Double win for 1 hour of labor.


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## Matty2023 (Jun 12, 2015)

Ok sorry im new to the tt tuning,that sounds good so no engine light or anything


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## Matty2023 (Jun 12, 2015)

Ok so im running 249bhp at stage 1arp remap with a pipercross panel filter,if i get a gargage to remove the cat out of the down pipe and get the amd induction stage 2 map or a decent custome map ill make 30 bhp ish


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## Matty2023 (Jun 12, 2015)

Sorry will it be ok to run my car once i get the cat removed with the stage 1 remap or will it run lean


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## pedrodani (Jun 26, 2013)

Im at stage 1 as well. I run a VWR cai and last week removed the precat. The car as been running fine and the turbo seems to spool faster. However it as been hot the last couple days and that always impact the cars power output, so cant really tell about being stronger.
Still, im going to the dyno today so I will know exactly what diference these mods makes from stage 1 on my car.


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## Yesj (Nov 12, 2014)

Matty2023 said:


> Ok sorry im new to the tt tuning,that sounds good so no engine light or anything


no worries mate  No engine light.



Matty2023 said:


> Ok so im running 249bhp at stage 1arp remap with a pipercross panel filter,if i get a gargage to remove the cat out of the down pipe and get the amd induction stage 2 map or a decent custome map ill make 30 bhp ish


If you have a good engine you will.
Below is my pre remap power gains with only the cat removed from the downpipe and a K&N panel filter. The power was really linear and the tuner was impressed with the 230hp/320nm with stock software. It was 33celsius outside and inlet was 60 degrees


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## Matty2023 (Jun 12, 2015)

Ok people,yeah show us your results after on the rolling road,i made 212.3hp @5443rmp and [email protected] standard and after the apr stage 1 with a panel filter it made [email protected] and 321.1lb-ft @3398rmp after the map,cant seem to put a pick up using my iphone but i was happy with that


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## Matty2023 (Jun 12, 2015)

Dyno run


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## pedrodani (Jun 26, 2013)

I was 205hp/300nm stock and with stage1 235hp/400nm @17°c.
lets see how it goes today on the same dyno with roughly the same temperature and with:
Pre cat delete
VWR cai
gfb dv+
IC to TB larger pipe


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## pedrodani (Jun 26, 2013)

Just got back from dyno,.. 257,4hp/426nm @18ºC
an increase of 22 ponnies and 26 torques for a couple of bolt on parts and a free moded precat


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## Matty2023 (Jun 12, 2015)

Thats good mate,so with my stage 1 if i get my cat cut out of my down pipe get an induction kit ill get around 20 bhp,did they not recommend a stage 2 remap


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## pedrodani (Jun 26, 2013)

I did it with the stg1 map.(no changes)
I do have a bad thermostat and my intake valves seem to bee pretty dirty so its best to attend to this first before anything else.


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## pedrodani (Jun 26, 2013)

Dont remove the cat, you'll need it for mot.
just knock the precat out.


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## Yesj (Nov 12, 2014)

pedrodani said:


> Just got back from dyno,.. 257,4hp/426nm @18ºC
> an increase of 22 ponnies and 26 torques for a couple of bolt on parts and a free moded precat


Nice mate! That are the numbers I expected. 
426nm is really high. Do you have the dyno sheet? 
At those temperatures with a custom remap you should do 285hp with RON98 



Matty2023 said:


> Thats good mate,so with my stage 1 if i get my cat cut out of my down pipe get an induction kit ill get around 20 bhp,did they not recommend a stage 2 remap


A custom remap is always the way to go for the best output.
most of the time you will get a 20hp increase, but with a custom remap you can end up with 280hp.
You can see mine at page 1 doing 230hp with stock software and only the cat mod and a panel filter upgrade.


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## Matty2023 (Jun 12, 2015)

Ok I understand does anyone know a decent place that does custom maps,i live in London


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## pedrodani (Jun 26, 2013)

only use ron 98


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## Bowen (Mar 17, 2011)

No one has mentioned a larger FMIC?

Anyone with a downpipe and decat running Quattro. I see loads of 2wd downpipes for sale but never for 4wd?


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## pedrodani (Jun 26, 2013)

Bowen said:


> No one has mentioned a larger FMIC?


My tuner did. 
He had one from a TTS and showed me. The diference in size is massive and that alone should give 10~12hp, but more important the ride should not suffer so much from heat soak and the map can be tuned for higher HP numbers


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## Bowen (Mar 17, 2011)

Has anyone ever fitted a TTS FMIC to a TFSI?


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## Yesj (Nov 12, 2014)

pedrodani said:


> only use ron 98
> 
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/p ... pturar.png


looking good!
With a good custom remap you should get more HP and better top end power. It dies a little bit in the top.


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## pedrodani (Jun 26, 2013)

Yesj said:


> looking good!
> With a good custom remap you should get more HP and better top end power. It dies a little bit in the top.


That would be so, with some tweeks in the remap some hp would be found. 
However, the thermostat being broken (always open) is making the car run rich all the time, i'm spending a fortune in fuel and my exhaust has a lot of soot all the time. This must be fixed first.


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## repsol (May 1, 2015)

I've just had a stage 1 remap done and now have 308 bhp. It was running 251 bhp standard. The car is a 2.0lt tfsi 2011. Only other mod is a larger downpipe and 200 cell cat fitted.


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## Matty2023 (Jun 12, 2015)

Would you guys say ill be ok taking the cat out of the downpipe,while im on stage 1apr,dont want it to run lean or funny thanks


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## Yesj (Nov 12, 2014)

repsol said:


> I've just had a stage 1 remap done and now have 308 bhp. It was running 251 bhp standard. The car is a 2.0lt tfsi 2011. Only other mod is a larger downpipe and 200 cell cat fitted.


Nice!
Thats the new 2.0tsi from the golf 6 gti. With whose mods around 300-310hp id possible indeed. 
The new golf 7 gti engine with those mods can get op to 320-330hp



Matty2023 said:


> Would you guys say ill be ok taking the cat out of the downpipe,while im on stage 1apr,dont want it to run lean or funny thanks


No problem.


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## tdi_van (Nov 13, 2014)

Bowen said:


> Has anyone ever fitted a TTS FMIC to a TFSI?


yes mate, is a straight bolt on :wink: . you just need to cut your Stock inlet and out let pipes that goes to Fmic( because the way they attach, or change also the your pipes to the TTS ones....


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## tdi_van (Nov 13, 2014)

TTS Part Number.: 1K0 145803P


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## Bowen (Mar 17, 2011)

tdi_van said:


> Bowen said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone ever fitted a TTS FMIC to a TFSI?
> ...


Top man, cheers.


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## tdi_van (Nov 13, 2014)

Bowen said:


> Top man, cheers.


this is in a TDi from a friend, but same procedure.










you can see one of the pipes that had already been cutted in the edge, to fit in the fmic


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## Bowen (Mar 17, 2011)

repsol said:


> I've just had a stage 1 remap done and now have 308 bhp. It was running 251 bhp standard. The car is a 2.0lt tfsi 2011. Only other mod is a larger downpipe and 200 cell cat fitted.


I struggle to believe that. Please don't take offence but do you have a print out? And were the figures from wheels or flywheel?


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## Bowen (Mar 17, 2011)

tdi_van said:


> Bowen said:
> 
> 
> > Top man, cheers.
> ...


Brilliant. Where did you buy it from?


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## repsol (May 1, 2015)

Bowen said:


> repsol said:
> 
> 
> > I've just had a stage 1 remap done and now have 308 bhp. It was running 251 bhp standard. The car is a 2.0lt tfsi 2011. Only other mod is a larger downpipe and 200 cell cat fitted.
> ...


I have a picture I took at the time of the screen. He printed one off but it's too faint to read properly. I'm still waiting for him to send me a copy via email. I could post the pictures up but don't know how to edit my reg details off it.
Anyone who disbelieves this then give Unicorn Motor Developments a ring. I'm sure he'll be happy to tell anyone about it as he himself had never seen such power from a stage one and stock figures. The torque figure was 371 too.


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## tdi_van (Nov 13, 2014)

Bowen said:


> Brilliant. Where did you buy it from?


i bought it in portugal, cost around 340€


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## pedrodani (Jun 26, 2013)

tdi_van said:


> Bowen said:
> 
> 
> > Brilliant. Where did you buy it from?
> ...


I also got a quote of 335€ for an S3 one


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## tdi_van (Nov 13, 2014)

pedrodani said:


> tdi_van said:
> 
> 
> > Bowen said:
> ...


épa outro tuga aqui lool.. :mrgreen:


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## tdi_van (Nov 13, 2014)

lool. same chip tuner as well, Mb power. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## tdi_van (Nov 13, 2014)

pedrodani said:


> I was 205hp/300nm stock and with stage1 235hp/400nm @17°c.
> lets see how it goes today on the same dyno with roughly the same temperature and with:
> Pre cat delete
> VWR cai
> ...


i have to ask my dynos to gonçalo, but mine give stock around 230hp\315nm. @stg1 252 and cant remember the Nm.

let see if i can speek to gonçalo and ask mine dyno´s


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## pedrodani (Jun 26, 2013)

tdi_van said:


> épa outro tuga aqui lool.. :mrgreen:


 8)


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## pedrodani (Jun 26, 2013)

tdi_van said:


> i have to ask my dynos to gonçalo, but mine give stock around 230hp\315nm. @stg1 252 and cant remember the Nm.
> 
> let see if i can speek to gonçalo and ask mine dyno´s


Montaste IC no teu??


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## tdi_van (Nov 13, 2014)

pedrodani said:


> tdi_van said:
> 
> 
> > i have to ask my dynos to gonçalo, but mine give stock around 230hp\315nm. @stg1 252 and cant remember the Nm.
> ...


ainda n. esta em casa a espera de tempo para o colocar, em conjunto com o parachoques do TTS.

a ver se o goncalo me envia os dynos, isto ja foi em março loool.... ta sempre com falta de tempo aquele gajo!


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## repsol (May 1, 2015)

Bowen said:


> repsol said:
> 
> 
> > I've just had a stage 1 remap done and now have 308 bhp. It was running 251 bhp standard. The car is a 2.0lt tfsi 2011. Only other mod is a larger downpipe and 200 cell cat fitted.
> ...


There you go.... :roll:


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## Bowen (Mar 17, 2011)

repsol said:


> Bowen said:
> 
> 
> > repsol said:
> ...


Is that at the flywheel? Or do you drive a TTS?


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## yveTTe bland (Aug 25, 2014)

Hello Chaps!
Just a little enquiry! I have been considering a stage 1 re-map on my TDI TT. Ive noticed that you mention no mods required to do this! but im thinking with a stage 2 and so on would you guys not need to maybe change your braking system to maybe some Brembo brakes!? will your car Audi standard brakes be able to handle the extra power? Im curious for me and cost too!
kind regards 
yvette


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## repsol (May 1, 2015)

It's at the flywheel. Cars a 2.0lt tfsi S line 2011


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## Yesj (Nov 12, 2014)

Bowen said:


> repsol said:
> 
> 
> > I've just had a stage 1 remap done and now have 308 bhp. It was running 251 bhp standard. The car is a 2.0lt tfsi 2011. Only other mod is a larger downpipe and 200 cell cat fitted.
> ...


why? its the newer golf 6 gti engine. And he has done a stage 2 tune because of the hardware mods.



repsol said:


> There you go.... :roll:


Hmmm doesnt look to good. Is it drivable with that peek torque? It dies instant.
I would take it to a good tuner who can map it with a proper torque curve.

Here some curves with your 211ps TSI engine how you want it.

stage 1:









*Cat mod and carbon intake 102RON:*


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## Bowen (Mar 17, 2011)

Yesj said:


> Bowen said:
> 
> 
> > repsol said:
> ...


It's a stage1 map. Also claiming 251bhp as standard, Really?! If that is correct then that must make it the fast standard production TSI ever. That's why I question it.

Most tuners claim 250-260hp form a stage1. Repsol starts with it.

2011 would be TSI, which would mean an IHI turbo. IHI blowing over 300hp.

I am shocked and impressed at the figures as would all tuning companies be.

:roll:


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## repsol (May 1, 2015)

FFS Get a life. I'm not in the habit of coming on here making false claims for then people like yourself to come along and pick the bones over what I've said. Like I've said before and on another thread so I'll say it again just for your benefit Bowden.
The car I've had from new and has never had anything done to it. I then had a intermediate pipe and the cat done. I then had it remapped at Unicorn Motor Developments in Stockport for what was advertised as a stage one.
It went on the rollers and was doing 251, he put the map on and it came out with 308. He remarked that he didn't expect to get that out of it seen as it was already producing 251. He examined the standard map and said he'd never seen one with the turbo spinning at what it was.
Every time I took the car into the main dealer they would remark that they had never felt one with that much power and would ask if I'd had it mapped. 
If you choose not to believe what I've said then that's fine. 
At the end of the day everyone is entitled to their own opinion, in the meantime I'll just get on with driving what could just possibly be the most powerful 2.0lt tfsi S line in. .....................THE WORLD


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## aquazi (Dec 24, 2014)

Tbh the is whp with an estimated transmission loss to calculate the bhp.

I'd never get too upset by that as they are always subjective!

whp alone signifies what the real power without any manipulation....

But those figures are really good... Repsol you must be very happy with it.

Sent from my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk


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## repsol (May 1, 2015)

aquazi said:


> Tbh the is whp with an estimated transmission loss to calculate the bhp.
> 
> I'd never get too upset by that as they are always subjective!
> 
> ...


To be honest mate I didn't know any different. I just thought that's what 211bhp felt like. When it went on the rollers before the map was fitted I was really pleased to see 251bhp, thinking I'd get 40bhp or so on top of this. When it was explained to me that because it was already producing such high power it wasn't logical to expect what you'd normally get from a stage 1 map.
I was gutted to hear this as all I could think of was shit it's gunna still cost me £350 and I'm gunna be lucky to see 20 bhp extra.
When he told me it was 308 we both couldn't believe it. All I know is I paid him 350 quid for a stage 1 map and I came away with 308 and 371ft lbs torque. Whether some would call it stage 1+ or even stage 2, I don't know. All I know is the guy does custom maps for Audi and is recommended by Audi sport magazine.


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## tdi_van (Nov 13, 2014)

This is not from my car, this is from a portuguese guy, with same 211 hp engine in a golf 6










220hp stock and 290hp @stage1 :wink:


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## Bowen (Mar 17, 2011)

repsol said:


> FFS Get a life. I'm not in the habit of coming on here making false claims for then people like yourself to come along and pick the bones over what I've said. Like I've said before and on another thread so I'll say it again just for your benefit Bowden.
> The car I've had from new and has never had anything done to it. I then had a intermediate pipe and the cat done. I then had it remapped at Unicorn Motor Developments in Stockport for what was advertised as a stage one.
> It went on the rollers and was doing 251, he put the map on and it came out with 308. He remarked that he didn't expect to get that out of it seen as it was already producing 251. He examined the standard map and said he'd never seen one with the turbo spinning at what it was.
> Every time I took the car into the main dealer they would remark that they had never felt one with that much power and would ask if I'd had it mapped.
> ...


"FFS get a life" and "everyone is entitled to their own opinion" nice contradiction of yourself. :roll:

I am "picking the bones of it" because as you said yourself, " He remarked that he didn't expect to get that out of it" and "Every time I took the car into the main dealer they would remark that they had never felt one with that much power".

So forgive me for having the same opinion as both the mapper and the main dealer, Darling.

And it's Bowen, not Bowden.


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## Bowen (Mar 17, 2011)

repsol said:


> After he'd done it he came to me and said this thing is putting out *some serious power from standard*, 251 bhp is what it was doing with 302ft lbs of torque. *Normally it's only 211bhp.*
> *I couldn't believe it.* I've owned the car from new so didn't really know to expect any different.
> 
> *He put it on the rollers and I couldn't believe what I saw.*
> 308 bhp with 371ft lbs of torque. *We both couldn't believe it.* *He said that he'd never seen that kind of power before from a 2.0lt on a stage 1*.


This is interesting.

I don't disbelieve you, I just find it hard to believe. Even you couldn't believe it.


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## aquazi (Dec 24, 2014)

Maybe his car is a quattro and they only factored in fwd transmission loss before and after... Who knows!!

Sent from my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk


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## Matty2023 (Jun 12, 2015)

Hi sorry to bother you,im on stage 1 apr,im going to get the pre cat removed from my down pipe and cold air induction kit would say ill need the stage 2 map after these two mods or will the car be ok with yhe stage 1 map still,thanks for your help


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## pedrodani (Jun 26, 2013)

Im still at stage 1 map with those mods. Car runs fine.
Im shure I would get a few more ponnies if the map was tweaked for these mods however, but I wont be bothered.
At least until i upgrade the fmic


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## Matty2023 (Jun 12, 2015)

Ok good to hear,yeah im going to have the pre cat done anf the voltswagon racing cold air induction kit hopefully give me a few ponnies


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## Matty2023 (Jun 12, 2015)

So stage 2 remap is like for a full exhaust system change


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## danielW2599 (Mar 20, 2009)

Induction kit is part of the stage 2 requirements. Technically Stage 1 is software only, but many people chose to do induction kit at same time.

As far as I understand,

Stage 1 software only

Stage 2 Software + Sports cat/decat, cold air induction kit + uprated DV.

Stage 3 Software + Performance Turbo back system, uprated turbo, uprated clutch, uprated fuel pump, cold air intake, uprated DV, uprated FMIC.


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## pedrodani (Jun 26, 2013)

Matty2023 said:


> Ok good to hear,yeah im going to have the pre cat done anf the voltswagon racing cold air induction kit hopefully give me a few ponnies


You can expect 20+ on hp and 25nm on top of stage1 numbers. Thats what ive got.


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## Matty2023 (Jun 12, 2015)

Ok thanks guys i think i might ring apr see what they say to be safe,but im guessing ill be ok if you are


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## repsol (May 1, 2015)

What's an fmic?


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## pedrodani (Jun 26, 2013)

repsol said:


> What's an fmic?


Front mount intercooler


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## repsol (May 1, 2015)

pedrodani said:


> repsol said:
> 
> 
> > What's an fmic?
> ...


Cheers.


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## Matty2023 (Jun 12, 2015)

When do you need to upgrade the clutch,are they ok till stage 3


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## Yesj (Nov 12, 2014)

Why is everyone talking about stage chiptuning?

There are 2 kind of remappings. Standard remap chip based on stock hardware, and a custom remap.

Only thing you need to know. If you change hardware like a exhaust and intake mod you want a custom remap. Most are done on a dyno.
Tuning companies name different hardware mods with custom remaps stages. 
Tuner X names stage 2 for downpipe + cai + custom remap 
Tuner Z names the same upgrades stage 3

Just get a good custom remap on a dyno at a fine tuner. Name it stage 11. Who cares?
It's just selling your product and giving it a name.
low cost: with stock hardware: stock tuner remap
best budget for best hp: some little hardware mods and custom remap


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

New intake is not needed going to stage 2,it's not even a must for stage III.Many cars tuned to 600+ still have the oem airbox.


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## Yesj (Nov 12, 2014)

Ehmm cold air intake or a panel filter is the first thing you do.
So dont know what you are talking about tbh..


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## jaybyme (Mar 10, 2010)

There's nothing wrong with the oem airbox,stick a panel filter in it and if you really want run a cold air feed down to the front of the car.
I've had all various options on my car,but none are needed with stage 1 and 2, so are optional.
You will get far more by fitting a good intercooler on a stage 1 & 2 car than buying a new air intake.


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## pedrodani (Jun 26, 2013)

That maybe true on the TSI engines or on the later TFSI intake. But the airbox design on the BWA engines is restrictive in terms of air flow, there are gains to be had with a closed aftermarket CAI and remap.
around 10hp~12hp with the vwr kit on my car at least.


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## Yesj (Nov 12, 2014)

jaybyme said:


> There's nothing wrong with the oem airbox,stick a panel filter in it and if you really want run a cold air feed down to the front of the car.
> I've had all various options on my car,but none are needed with stage 1 and 2, so are optional.
> You will get far more by fitting a good intercooler on a stage 1 & 2 car than buying a new air intake.


Your really aint reading right?
A panel filter is doing something with your intake.


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## Bowen (Mar 17, 2011)

repsol said:


> pedrodani said:
> 
> 
> > repsol said:
> ...


And I am pretty sure you'd need one for 300bhp.


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## repsol (May 1, 2015)

Thanks for the advice Bowen :roll: Heaven knows why Unicorn Motor Developments never suggested it.


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## Bowen (Mar 17, 2011)

repsol said:


> Thanks for the advice Bowen :roll: Heaven knows why Unicorn Motor Developments never suggested it.


Well you have one as standard, given your engine it's probably rated to 600bhp. :lol:


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