# ABT vs REVO



## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

Hello guys,
1. Can someone tell my their experiences in ABT or REVO?

 2. Why is ABT something like 2300EUR (for Stage 1)
while
 REVO is 700eur (and offers 30hp more)
 
Why is ABT so darn expensive? Is there any way that this price difference is justified?  The promised figures are also night and day (in REVO favour)!!

  Im confused


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## phazer (Apr 2, 2018)

I don't know about the TT but on the S1 ABT use a secondary ECU for the mapping rather than a flash. The additional hardware bumps the cost.


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## kevin#34 (Jan 8, 2019)

ABT and MTM tuning modules are more expensive than any third party remap, you pay for the additional hw but somehow also for the brand itself. Last but not the least, they offer their own warranty (being the OEM one void) for engine and gearbox


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

I never understood why ABT & MTM could sell their tuning packages for so much, even given they used additional plug-in hardware.

The piggy-back method they use cannot be as good or as comprehensive as a proper ECU flash which is why they are never as good as a remap from the likes of Revo.

I think part of the appeal [was] being just a plug-in module, it was easy to remove and, voila, there is nothing to say you have ever had the car tuned when you visit the dealer with an engine warranty issue.

However with the amount of data logging modern engines do, I don't think that's the case any more and if they decide to investigate further they can still evidence the fact you've used one.


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

Thanks for early comments lads,
Judging from the ABT website, they do use 2nd ECU with preinstalled maps. So to revert the car is much more easier. But like Powerplay said, cars have logs in them no? It would note that at some point in time the car was running 330hp instead of 230hp.

Aside from the warranty and 2nd ECU I cant see how this is 3.3 more in terms of price!? If they added a 2nd module like a new better intercooler than I can see the price being justified. Also the gains from ABT are just not that noticeable, at least on paper.
From
Stock 5.3 ----> ABT 4.9
REVO
Stock 5.3 ---> 4.19!

I can throw in a DSG 1 stage remap and just barely touch 1000eur. Thats still 2.3 times less the cost and from what I read here REVO has a good reputation.


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## kevin#34 (Jan 8, 2019)

Yeah, the main advantage of piggy-back units is just the easy remouvability, and its presence will remain unnoticed in usual inspections/services, however if/when logged in by Audi headquarter it will be easily coded TB1 and warranty voided. That's why they both offer their own warranty on engine and gearbox


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

kevin#34 said:


> Yeah, the main advantage of piggy-back units is just the easy remouvability, and its presence will remain unnoticed in usual inspections/services, however if/when logged in by Audi headquarter it will be easily coded TB1 and warranty voided. That's why they both offer their own warranty on engine and gearbox


Still not worth the 3.3 times higher price, in my humble opinion Kev.  Plus the performance increase doesn't sound so good given the price. Both MTM and ABT 
My warranty is up at the beginning of 2020 so I have no worries there. Was thinking about this and REVO sounds like a good deal. :lol:

*Not sure if I would need a bigger intercooler given that its Stage 1 but whopping 110HP increase??*


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## Toshiba (Jul 8, 2004)

Piggy back is detectable, Audi can see the sent vs received on the different sensors. They even have a flag code for these devices now to void warranty. They have to look to start with, but can be found..

You are paying for a warranty, clearly ABT have chosen for risk vs rewards reasons a less aggressive output due to potential failures/reliability issues.

Cheaper to simply get the model with the appropriate output from the start.


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## spidey3 (Aug 13, 2019)

Toshiba said:


> Cheaper to simply get the model with the appropriate output from the start.


This was exactly my thought in getting the TT RS as opposed to starting with a TTS and modding. As my grandfather always used to say, "a cheap person always ends up paying twice".

But there are other folks out there who don't have the capital or credit available to buy the premium model up front; instead they buy something lesser under the assumption that they will add modifications to gradually increase performance at a pace that they can afford. In total, it is more expensive, but the up-front expense is less...


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

I understand that its risk vs reward. Still its stage 1 so I dont expect it to be too risky.
Still I get what Toshiba is saying, no doubt about it. Still shelling a lot more money for TTRS is a different song.

*Do you guys think that I might need a better intercooler for this too? Stage 1?
*
I dont plan to go any higher than Stage 1 software upgrade.


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## kevin#34 (Jan 8, 2019)

for stage 1, IC not required (...but welcomed, keeping the extra-power in hot climate condition)


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

kevin#34 said:


> for stage 1, IC not required (...but welcomed, keeping the extra-power in hot climate condition)


I feel like I know the answer that REVO shop give me in my area if I ask them the same thing. OFC you need one!! :lol:

Still I feel like it should be considered. I just got a brand new OEM intercooler changed before I bought the car (the old one was damaged due to roadkill rabbit puncturing the old one).

So despite the car being 2015 the intercooler is brand new. 
Im amazed that 110hp increase still doesn't warrant a better cooling radiator.


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## Steve2017TTS (Aug 2, 2017)

captainhero17 said:


> kevin#34 said:
> 
> 
> > for stage 1, IC not required (...but welcomed, keeping the extra-power in hot climate condition)
> ...


Hi,
If you have a DSG gearbox and are going to get your car remapped - don't forget to remap the box as well.
REVO do a remap for the box - that increases the clamping pressures and protects the gearbox from the increased power and torque.
It also changes other characteristics such as launch control etc.
Cheers
Steve


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## kevin#34 (Jan 8, 2019)

110 hp increase for stage 1??? :roll: 
forget that figure, reasonable gain is 25/35 hp



captainhero17 said:


> kevin#34 said:
> 
> 
> > for stage 1, IC not required (...but welcomed, keeping the extra-power in hot climate condition)
> ...


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

kevin#34 said:


> 110 hp increase for stage 1??? :roll:
> forget that figure, reasonable gain is 25/35 hp


Take a look for yourself. I may have missread something (I hate reading these days. I use "read outloud" feature on Microsoft Edge and Safari hahaha)
ABT offers 80HP so its not that far off.


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

You won't be getting +110hp from stage1.

Usually expect around 15-20% which for £/hp increase is very good compared to higher levels of tuning requiring IC/DP/FP/BT etc


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

While I too am a skeptic. Its what REVO said they achieve. They say anything between 313ps to 334ps. (see the screenshot and I provided the link)
Again this is for TT 2.0 Stronic Quattro stage 1.

Yes it does say dependent on car condition, fuel and conditions. But still cant be that much bellow. Right?

Someone check this out. I am very open to the idea that I am reading this wrong. :lol:

https://www.onlyrevo.com/product-detail ... 59/stage-1


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## Saco (Feb 29, 2016)

What does 15/20 % increase actually translate into in terms of improved 0-60 in TTS?


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## powerplay (Feb 8, 2008)

Saco said:


> What does 15/20 % increase actually translate into in terms of improved 0-60 in TTS?


I can't comment on the TTS but it's probably similar to the RS, a 20% increase in power/torque takes the quoted 3.7s to 3.1s, +- a bit depending on lots of other factors eg temperature, pressure, tyres, road surface etc etc

So probably around half a second or so.


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## ross_t_boss (Feb 28, 2017)

captainhero17 said:


> While I too am a skeptic. Its what REVO said they achieve. They say anything between 313ps to 334ps. (see the screenshot and I provided the link)
> Again this is for TT 2.0 Stronic Quattro stage 1.
> 
> Yes it does say dependent on car condition, fuel and conditions. But still cant be that much bellow. Right?
> ...


I can't see anything of the sort for Revo, but often they'll give you a measured increase as well in the small print. Typically their "stock reading" is 5-10% over so the actual gain is less.

Looking at what others do with this engine it's typical to see 320hp, and a bit more with intake and downpipe change, which is pretty damned impressive!


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

ross_t_boss said:


> captainhero17 said:
> 
> 
> > While I too am a skeptic. Its what REVO said they achieve. They say anything between 313ps to 334ps. (see the screenshot and I provided the link)
> ...


Hello Ross,
Im sure all those factors from measuring equipment margin of error to what weather is outside contribute to the numbers that you are quoting.  
Revo still sounds, like what Powerplay said, as a good bang for your buck.
From what I learned from other sources and what kevin said, at least I dont need a bigger intercooler. But I might buy one just in case.
...
Now the money issue...where does one obtain papers of specific value in exchange for goods and services?


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## kevin#34 (Jan 8, 2019)

those are optimistic figures for best scenario (hi-ron fuel, cold temperature etc) that is rarely exisitng in real conditions...
if you could bench-test before and after stage 1, I bet you would be disappointed, with +110HP gain in mind...
from stage 1 on 230 quattro (just map, I mean), I would expect no more than 50 REAL hp of gain...



captainhero17 said:


> Take a look for yourself. I may have missread something (I hate reading these days. I use "read outloud" feature on Microsoft Edge and Safari hahaha)
> ABT offers 80HP so its not that far off.


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## ross_t_boss (Feb 28, 2017)

captainhero17 said:


> Im sure all those factors from measuring equipment margin of error to what weather is outside contribute to the numbers that you are quoting.
> Revo still sounds, like what Powerplay said, as a good bang for your buck.
> From what I learned from other sources and what kevin said, at least I dont need a bigger intercooler.


It's not just a "Revo" thing it is all tuners. Example - my Unitronic Stage 1 quoted 105HP over stock. However right underneath it stated a 69HP increase on before/after test. The "stock" car in the same conditions ran 436HP on their dyno.

I find the performance figures are more meaningful, I don't get too caught up on power numbers. Although the before/after rule applies there too... another example - my quoted 3.6s 0-60 time improved to 3.1s on Stage 1. Wow, 0.5s increase?! Nope - it ran 3.2s in standard form once I got the knack of getting the best time with LC...

Personally I think Revo are great value, they also have DSG map options at good value. I was looking for Ethanol fuel maps as well, otherwise I'd have considered them. I would expect you to be very happy with the performance increase if you went Revo. I wouldn't touch ABT, the figures I've seen from their cars are more like a stage 0.5.

An intercooler would be advantageous especially in hot weather, to make that power the turbo will be way out of its efficiency range. Once IATs get in the 40s it will start to pull timing. As a guide - in sub 15C weather my stock TTRS intercooler did well even with a remap, but over that it was into 40s and costing power after 4th gear.


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## gAgNiCk (Dec 25, 2017)

Steve2017TTS said:


> If you have a DSG gearbox and are going to get your car remapped - don't forget to remap the box as well.
> REVO do a remap for the box - that increases the clamping pressures and protects the gearbox from the increased power and torque.
> It also changes other characteristics such as launch control etc.
> Cheers
> Steve


DSG Stg 1 does not increase clamping pressure, not required for Stg 1 ECU unless you want 'optimised' shift points..


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

Ross T boss,
Thanks for the comprehensive comment and guides. Definitively will save the thread for the future when I undergo the remapping. All the important useful info is here!



gAgNiCk said:


> Steve2017TTS said:
> 
> 
> > If you have a DSG gearbox and are going to get your car remapped - don't forget to remap the box as well.
> ...


Yeah I did not find anything about clamping pressure. But acc. to REVO it optimises shift points and the DSG behaviour in general. Seems like another useful thing to have since no car is any good with out a well tuned transmission.
So your comment is on the point. 
Steve is right about LC controls. So Steve I am sure I will get DSG remap too ofc.


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## gAgNiCk (Dec 25, 2017)

captainhero17 said:


> Yeah I did not find anything about clamping pressure. But acc. to REVO it optimises shift points and the DSG behaviour in general. Seems like another useful thing to have since no car is any good with out a well tuned transmission.
> So your comment is on the point.
> Steve is right about LC controls. So Steve I am sure I will get DSG remap too ofc.


I wouldn't bother with the dsg map, especially if you are using the paddles, who uses launch control?


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

gAgNiCk said:


> I wouldn't bother with the dsg map, especially if you are using the paddles, who uses launch control?


The only times I used the paddles:
1. When someone new asks "what are those behind the steering wheel?"
2. When I accidentally grab one. 
I bought an automatic so I can escape changing gears. :lol: :lol: :lol: 
( I also found out that in stock form. DSG doesn't let you paddle shift as freely as you'd expect. The moment you let the RPM even come close to 6k the internal computer is like WTF! CHANGE !!! I am DYING!! OK, F YOU I AM TAKING THE CONTROLS BACK. It wrestles the control way too easily.)

As for the LC, well I did use it on my way to the countryside where I was vacationing a week ago for the first time. Its a gimmick 100% but if you can find a good place to do it why not?


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## kevin#34 (Jan 8, 2019)

Revo DSG stage 1 remap optimises changing point and disable kick down upshift in manual (personally I hate that feature).
APR DSG remap goes well beyond, offering Increased clamping pressure, manual upshift at (or after) red line, and manual downshifts in all gears if next gear is below redline; not bad, really.
Personally, between Revo and APR, I would go for APR, no doubt


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## captainhero17 (Apr 10, 2018)

kevin#34 said:


> Revo DSG stage 1 remap optimises changing point and disable kick down upshift in manual (personally I hate that feature).
> APR DSG remap goes well beyond, offering Increased clamping pressure, manual upshift at (or after) red line, and manual downshifts in all gears if next gear is below redline; not bad, really.
> Personally, between Revo and APR, I would go for APR, no doubt


Hi Kevin, I heard a lot about APR. The thing is that I am no where near any of the dealers and their service garages to even be considering them. I tried to check their website. Their website confuses me and I couldn't find the list of gains that I can expect from their Stage 1.


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## kevin#34 (Jan 8, 2019)

well, I understand
for what concerning declared gains for stage 1, here all the info (for TT 230): https://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgr ... 3_mqb.html

and here for DSG:
https://www.goapr.com/products/tcu_upgr ... 0_mqb.html


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## JimmyG1972 (Apr 16, 2018)

All, I've had both MTM and APR on my 2018 TTRS.

Was advised by QST in Sussex to go with APR from the outset, but my car was brand new and so was anxious about a full ECU flash. Have driven round with the MTM box in for 10 months now and removed it when been into my local dealer for a service with no ill effects.

However I've just updated to the APR ECU tune, and I can say that there is a difference (plenty of other mods applied mind you).

Definitely has more 'bite' and pulls you forward with a real torquey feel. Runs out of road usually before it runs out of power!

For anyone looking for the plus and play option my MTM box is now listed on Ebay, at a bargain knockdown price:

http://ebay.us/Tntxb1?cmpnId=5338273189


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